National Assembly for Wales

Good afternoon and welcome to this Plenary meeting of the Senedd. The first item this afternoon will be questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from Sioned Williams.

We continue to work with the transition board, local authorities and stakeholders to support local communities with their health and mental well-being through local health boards. We're also using the £100 million of funding to invest in skills and regeneration activities for the local area.

Thank you. Local authorities provide the majority of front-line services to support residents who need assistance. And we heard yesterday, didn’t we, that there is a black hole of £540 million, at least, in their budgets, which will have a significant impact on their ability to provide these services. I attended a meeting with leaders of Neath Port Talbot council recently, and over the past two years, they have had to make £45 million-worth of cuts, and the council, like every other across Wales, is planning, now, for further swingeing cuts, while its costs have increased by over £20 million since last year. And in contrast to the majority of other councils, they’re also, of course, going to have to deal with the seismic economic shock as a result of the loss of thousands of jobs at Tata Steel and the related supply chain. Although the council needs to do essential work to help rebuild the local economy, and support the thousands impacted by the redundancies, the Welsh Government has warned it not to expect any increase in the revenue support grant. So, will you, First Minister, ensure that there is specific funding available to ensure that Neath Port Talbot council, and neighbouring local authorities, receive support to meet the additional demands on their services, perhaps making the case for this to the Chancellor in Westminster?

Thank you very much. I’m sure that the Member is aware that there is a special fund set aside to assist those people who have suffered because of the changes at Tata. Eighty million pounds is available in that fund, which will be distributed by Neath Port Talbot council. So, that funding is ring-fenced. In addition to that, of course, there is an opportunity for local people to access some of the funding available through ReAct and Communities for Work. And, in addition to that, there are also personal learning accounts for Tata directly, which have already helped 716 Tata employees.

First Minister, the primary way in which people affected by the redundancies at Tata will be supported is through the work of the transition board. Now, we know the last UK Conservative Government put £80 million into that transition board, and Tata put £20 million. I still haven’t got a clear answer from the Welsh Government why the Welsh Government has failed to put a single penny in to support workers in Tata into that transition board. As you’re a new First Minister—the third First Minister, now, who’s sat in post while this transition board has been in place—can you explain why the Welsh Government has failed to support the transition board that supports workers in Port Talbot?

Well, I’ve never heard such nonsense in my life. Let me just say that your Government—your Government—said they’d put that money on the table and then they didn’t spend it. They didn’t spend it. It sat there for months on end. And you know this because you’re a member of the board—you know this, as you’re a member of the board. And I was really pleased that the Secretary of State for Wales was able to unlock that, so that, now, £13.5 million of that money is already being provided to those people. And it’s absolutely wrong to say that the Welsh Government is not doing anything to support. We’re putting a huge amount of support into supporting those Tata workers. The ReAct and the Communities for Work programmes are there—they’re supporting. We have these people already—716 of them—benefiting from the personal learning accounts, reskilling and upskilling themselves. So, all of that is in place, being paid for by the Welsh Government. I think we should be really proud of what we’re doing.

I congratulate my former union Community—I was a member when it was called the Iron and Steel Trades Confederation—for the work it is doing to support steelworkers, contractors and others affected by the heavy-end closure. I am still personally very angry that a new blast furnace is being built in India by Tata at the same time as Port Talbot is being closed. But what is the Welsh Government doing to support the wider community, outside Port Talbot, including Swansea and Pyle, where there are large numbers of former steelworkers? I will again urge the Welsh Government to seek the relocation of Westminster civil service jobs to the area to deal with the loss of employment.

Thanks very much. Of course, we are absolutely determined to see the opening of the electric arc furnace, which we hope will allow people to work in the steel industry in future in that area. The real problem is that we had this gap between closing the blast furnaces and the opening of the electric arc furnace. You're quite right to refer to the support that Community has put in place, as the trade union. And you'll be aware that the Community support centre was opened in the Aberafan shopping centre to provide the support, guidance and retraining advice to individuals and businesses impacted by that decision by Tata. Of course, people from Swansea and the environment will be able to access that support that is being supplied in that Community support centre.

We are actively supporting the development of sustainable public buildings through several cross-Government initiatives and policies. Apart from small exemptions, all new buildings promoted or supported by the Welsh Government are required to meet our sustainable building policy standards.

Thank you for that answer.

Would the First Minister take this opportunity to congratulate Welsh Water on their recent Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors award for the development of Llanishen and Lisvane reservoirs? The reservoirs won land management and sustainable project of the year at the awards, which recognises outstanding business building projects that promote economic growth, social well-being, environmental protection and cultural preservation. The visitor centre is entirely eco-friendly, with features such as heat-reclaiming shower trays, solar panels, and sustainable drainage, which help to protect the local ecosystem. And I understand that the judges particularly praised the project for its community group involvement and also its collaboration with the Welsh Government. So, I would therefore like to ask what other ways the Welsh Government is helping projects such as this, to create community-driven and sustainable buildings for the future.

Diolch yn fawr. I would like to give my congratulations also to Welsh Water for that programme of development. It's got that brand-new visitor centre—I'm very anxious to go and have a bit of tranquillity in the area at some point. It's got a cafe, it's got an activity hub, it's got conference facilities. And I think the key point to remember is that some of this came as a result of the grant programme funded by the Welsh Government. This is just one project out of 61. So, what is great to see is that not only has this been a success, but it's also won an award. We should celebrate that. There was £45 million invested by the time the current rural development programme closed in 2023. So, huge congratulations to them, and I look forward to hearing more about some of the other 61 projects that have received support.

We can't build sustainable public buildings without construction firms. In Wales, these are predominantly small and medium-sized enterprises, or SMEs. A new report by the Chartered Institute of Building has highlighted a rising number of Welsh construction firms facing administration, blaming this on issues including a skills crisis, coupled with overcomplicated tender processes, and a lack of local government support. The managing director of one of these construction SMEs said that a simplified process would allow SMEs to compete for public sector contracts. This could include reducing and simplifying the qualification criteria and introducing proportionate requirements for smaller projects. He went on to say that the Welsh tendering processes, especially for public sector projects, often required adherence to Welsh Government-specific regulations, which can complicate bids. So, how will the Welsh Government work with representatives of SME contractors, including the Chartered Institute of Building, to ensure a thriving sector that can continue building, amongst other things, sustainable public buildings in Wales?

Thanks very much. We're all aware of the huge increases in costs that the construction industry has faced, in particular the massive impact that inflation has had on some of the raw materials. That's impacted on every aspect and, in particular, on our ability in Government to make the kind of developments and advances that we hope to see when it comes to capital investment, and, of course, that means that the construction industry has also been challenged. On the SMEs, you're quite right—we have to make sure that there are opportunities for them to compete, and that's why there are examples in procurement where we've broken down the big procurement projects into smaller projects to enable some of those local suppliers and SMEs to be able to tender for that work.

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies. 

Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, yesterday, you were at Keir Starmer's investment summit, and the good news coming out of that summit was that there's £60 billion-worth of investment coming into the UK, building on the previous two conferences that the previous Conservative Government put in place. But one thing we learnt today, sadly, with economic numbers here in Wales, is that unemployment has moved upwards and those in employment remain at the lowest level as a percentage of the workforce of any part of the United Kingdom. One thing that would be devastating would be an increase in national insurance contributions, and, indeed, two individuals thought the same some years ago. A certain gentleman called Jonathan Reynolds, who I believe is now the Secretary of State for Business and Trade, said in 2022 that national insurance is 

'a tax on jobs for employers at the worst possible time. Labour will back business to keep British firms competitive'.  

Rachel Reeves, a certain Chancellor of the Exchequer, said, in 2021, higher employment insurance will 

'make each new recruit more expensive and increase the costs to business.' 

They don't like it, do they? They don't like it, because they know that increasing national insurance contributions will increase those unemployment numbers here in Wales. So, will you agree with Jonathan Reynolds and the Chancellor of the Exchequer when they were in opposition that, actually, an increase in employer national insurance payments will increase unemployment here in Wales? 

I'm not going to take lessons from a Tory Government that left office with the highest tax rates in 70 years. I will not take lessons from you. And you talk about building on the summits of the past, I'll tell you what happened in the summits of the past: nobody turned up in the end, because you were in such chaos that they didn't think that the United Kingdom was a place where they could be clear that their money would be safe. Now that has all changed. With a UK Labour Government, 'stability' is the word in order, and I made it very clear to some of those investors yesterday that if they want to see some stability, this is the place to come—Labour in power and winning majorities for 102 years. That's what you call stability, and that's why people should come and invest here.

And you talk about unemployment rates, let me tell you about unemployment rates. There's always work to do on that, but I was pleased to see the Office for National Statistics publication last week that suggested that youth unemployment in Wales had come down 3.2 per cent to 6.2 per cent. The equivalent UK figure is 11 per cent. If there's an area where I want to see progress, it's youth unemployment, and I'm pleased to see that those figures have come down.

First Minister, when the Conservatives left office in July, we had the fastest growing G7 economy, we had inflation back to 2 per cent and we had unemployment at record low levels. That is a fact. But the point I am making to you, First Minister, is quite simple: your colleagues, in opposition, said that any increase in national insurance payments by employers would be a tax on employment. I simply asked the question of you: do you agree with Jonathan Reynolds and Rachel Reeves, when they were in opposition, that, actually, an increase in national insurance would see job losses, would be a tax on employment and, actually, deter vital investment that we need here in Wales? 'Yes' or 'no', First Minister? 

It's an absolute joke, isn't it, to talk about the fastest growth. If you're growing from an extremely low base, that's pretty easy, and that's where you were at. What the agenda of the UK Government is and what the agenda of the Welsh Government is is to see economic growth, and that's why that summit yesterday was absolutely crucial. There were people there from around the globe, yearning to invest in a country that now has stability after the chaos of those Tory years. Economic growth is what’s going to make a difference. That’s what’s going to generate the taxes that will then allow us to spend on the public services that we are all very keen to support. So, I’m not going to tell you what’s in the budget—I don’t know what’s in the budget; it’s important that Rachel Reeves is accountable for that—but what I will tell you is that I am absolutely on the same page when it comes to economic growth in this nation.

I appreciate, by your own words, you have greater influence on Donald Trump than you do on Keir Starmer, the Prime Minister, so maybe you don’t know what’s in the budget, but speaker after speaker, speaking on behalf of the Labour Government, from the business Secretary on Sunday to the Prime Minister today and the Chancellor yesterday, all refused to rule out a rise in employer contributions to national insurance. I’ve used their very words that have said that it’ll be a tax on employment. You say that as a party you stand up for Wales, why don’t you stand up for Wales and stop this rise in the budget to tax employment here in Wales, when we have the highest unemployment going forward here in Wales, and some of the lowest employment of any part of the United Kingdom? You could stand up for Wales. You didn’t stand up for Wales when it came to pensioners and winter fuel payments. How’s about standing up for Welsh workers, First Minister? Stand up and be counted.

I’ll tell you how I’ll stand up for Wales, it’s to make sure that they’re aware of the £22 billion hole that you left in the budget that we now have to fill. [Interruption.] We now have to fill it. [Interruption.] It absolutely does exist. You want to speak to the Institute for Fiscal Studies. You want to speak to all of these other organisations. I’m not making this up. There are other independent bodies talking about this.

My job is to stand up for Wales and that’s precisely what I was doing in the nations and regions—. It’s precisely what I was doing in the Council of the Nations and Regions that was held for the first time in Edinburgh on Friday, bouncing in then to the summit meeting that was held in the Guildhall in London, a real opportunity for us to make the case, because growth is what matters, and that’s absolutely the page that we’re on.

The leader of Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. Last month, The Guardian ran an exclusive story including the following sentence:

'NHS patients in Wales will be allowed to travel to England for outpatient or elective treatment under plans to be announced by the Welsh secretary'.

Now, assuming that the Welsh Government were involved in those decisions, what exactly did Jo Stevens mean by that?

We’ve been very clear and we’ve checked on this, and I think people have been putting words into our mouth in terms of what the relationship is and what it was that we announced. We did say that we want to see where we can learn from other parts of the United Kingdom that are working successfully, as they are keen to learn from us. What I can tell you is that, since then, there has been an appointment, the health Secretary has announced the appointment of that expert panel, people who have worked in the NHS in England who know what works well, and that is the beginning of that relationship of learning where we can from England. That would not have been possible—that would not have been possible—with a Tory Government in Westminster.

The First Minister’s reference to putting words in mouths tempts me to make comparisons with the ridiculous notion that Welsh Government’s excellent performance on dentistry is something that we should be learning from. Jo Stevens told The Guardian that, and I quote:

'These practical, commonsense steps could deliver real change on the ground for patients and clinicians.'

The problem is that we have absolutely no idea what is actually being proposed. Despite her promise of mutual aid partnerships between NHS trusts in England and health boards in Wales,  Welsh Government’s Cabinet Secretary for health has ruled out giving Welsh patients the option to travel to England for more treatments. Between them, Labour in Wales and in Westminster have come up with a word soup that is just a distraction from their failure and even a lack of a real plan to bring down wating lists.

In light of the supposed new cross-border health partnership, which remains a mystery to all, including the Secretary for health, can the First Minister explain why three key players on the border, Gloucestershire NHS trust, Herefordshire and Worcestershire NHS trust, and Powys Teaching Health Board would confirm to us via freedom of information requests that they have received no correspondence from either Labour Government?

Well, I honestly think that you have all, as well as the media, been projecting things onto what this relationship is all about. The fact is that it is all about practical, commonsense steps, and that's what we're doing. We've brought in these experts, who are telling us what works well in the NHS in England, and they'll be working with the experts from Wales on how that will work best. And let's be clear also that, actually, supporting each other is something that already happens. It happened already. That's why people who, for example, have cleft palates living in Bristol, come to Wales for their support, because we have the expertise. The same thing in relation to plastic surgery: we have expertise here and they send them here. That is the way it works and so, of course, if we can help each other out, we will, and we do. 

When we look at capacity, frankly, there's not that much capacity in England either at the moment, when it comes to—[Interruption.] I'll tell you what it's about. It's about learning best practice. [Interruption.] Why aren't you listening to what I'm saying? Why don't you read what we've actually said, rather than making things up? It was the Tories doing that last week and now it's you doing it.

But what I can tell you is that, actually, there is a whole range of areas where they are keen to learn from us as well, and that includes the fact that we have changed the GP contract in Wales, that we have much better performance than they do in England, testified to by the fact that 60 per cent more people from England on the borders are registered in Wales rather than England. They are choosing to register in Wales because they get a better service. 

And you're right, we've got a long way to go, still, on dentistry—a long way to go—but we're a damn sight further ahead than they are in England. Four hundred thousand new patients have gained access to an NHS dentist. Have we got more to do? Of course we do, but they've got much further to go in England, and we've already changed the contract in Wales. 

Of course there's co-operation already happening, but on this announcement of new cross-border working, the First Minister is genuinely making it up as she goes along, I think. We know nothing about these plans because there were no plans, were there? We've asked Ministers to publish the relevant terms of reference: nothing. Governance arrangements: nothing. We don't even know what the financial implications are. Let's be honest about what happened here: Labour put out a conference press release to try to take a bit of the pressure off themselves on their health failures, and in doing so they gave patients false hope.

Plaid Cymru looks forward to putting our plans in place to start dealing with that immediate issue of long waiting lists. But at our conference over the weekend, we also focused on that other fundamental shift in policy direction that we need, putting the preventative health agenda front and centre. The truth is that, had successive Labour Welsh Governments invested as they should have in preventing ill health, rather than just managing people's pain, waiting lists would not be out of control to the extent that they are. Over 10 per cent of deaths in Wales are linked to smoking. I'll end with this straightforward question: can the First Minister confirm whether or not the Welsh Government is proposing to cut funding to any organisation involved in furthering the cause of smoking cessation in Wales?

Well, you talk about your conference at the weekend; I went to a conference yesterday where I had the opportunity to speak to Wes Streeting about how we move further along. He was really pleased to make sure that his officials are working and looking at what it is we've done in relation to the dentistry contract, what it is we've done in relation to the GP contract. So, all of those are practical measures of how that co-operation is already moving ahead. 

When you talk about the preventative agenda, I don't think we should apologise, and more than that, in fact, if you haven't read our strategic document, 'A Healthier Wales', then you should, because it's all about the preventative agenda. That's precisely what it's about. It's about early intervention, it's about making sure that we resolve issues in the community. We had a public health Bill. This is a Government that doesn't take public health lightly, we're the—[Interruption.] And this, don't forget, was a situation where Plaid Cymru voted against the public health Bill. And look at you: proud of it. All of a sudden, all of a sudden, public health is important to you after you voted against the Bill.

Let me tell you about the budget, okay? The health budget has increased year on year on year. That is not something that we will apologise for. Also, I think that it is important to note that, actually, when it comes to how it's organised, most of the prevention work is done within the NHS organisations themselves, and it's up to them to make sure that they organise things that are appropriate for their particular communities. So, in some communities, there will be a much higher rate of smoking than others, for example, and it's important that that is reflected in the kind of care and support that is given. But it's really important that that happens at a local level, where you can manipulate and change for the needs of the population. That's why we have health boards. You didn't want health boards. You wanted it all to be organised from a national point of view a few weeks ago. I don't know what your policy is now, but it does seem to be changing by the minute.

The Welsh Government funds a comprehensive inspection and delivery programme for safety critical maintenance works on publicly and privately owned tips. Approximately 2,000 coal tip inspections have been undertaken since 2020. We are also modernising our legislation through the new disused tips Bill, due to be introduced to the Senedd shortly.

Diolch. First Minister, on 21 September this year, you stated that, and I quote:

'Heavier rainfall could destabilise Wales’ many coal tips. The UK Government has a duty to work with us to address the risk to communities...we need long-term funding to make coal tips safe.'

So, First Minister, do you still believe that coal tips are unsafe, and if so, have you asked the UK Government for specific funding to make them safe? Thank you.

Thanks very much. You are absolutely right. We do have a duty and a responsibility to make sure that the coal tips that we have—and there are a lot of them in Wales; about 4,000, as I understand it—. We have checked 2,000 of them. This is something that we are taking extremely seriously and something that we have already spent £60 million on, in terms of investment, between 2022 and 2025. You ask if I have checked this with the UK Government. It was a specific issue that I raised with Keir Starmer on Friday last week in Scotland, yes.

The coal tips that litter our landscape are the legacy of exploitation, because they stand as daily reminders of how our Valleys were robbed of our wealth, through coal, and left literally with the rubbish, in the slag heaps that risk becoming, as has been said, evermore unstable at times of heavy rain. 

Now, I know that the Welsh Government is shortly introducing a Bill to deal with how these tips can be kept safe, but our communities shouldn't have to deal with that worry. Westminster owes us the money that it will take to clear the tips. It is the least that they owe us, because those tips represent the lost wealth of coal that was stolen from us.

It is a trifle aggrieving to hear some Tories turn their tune on this when their own Government refused even to co-sign a letter about honouring that debt. But, Prif Weinidog, have you received a guarantee, please, from Keir Starmer that his Government will honour that debt that they owe to the Valleys, and that they will pay towards making these tips safe?  

Well, thanks very much. You are absolutely right. It is important for us to note the legacy of the coal tips on our communities. I think that it is also important to celebrate our history and the way that that has shaped our communities and our cultures. But you are right: we have to deal now with the consequences of what is left. That's why we are taking it extremely seriously. It's why we have made it clear to the UK Government that we think they have a responsibility. This was pre-devolution. That's why this was a key issue that I raised with the Prime Minister, as I say, in my meeting with him last Friday.

Caerphilly County Borough Council has taken proactive action to engage a private company to look at the remediation of the Bedwas tips. It's not without controversy in the community, but one thing I would say is that any work that ERI would do, when it goes through the proper planning procedures, would be very similar to anything that the UK Government would pay for and contract out to do. The process of remediating a tip is not always easy for a community, but, nonetheless, for safety reasons, they need to be done. Would the First Minister agree that the process for agreeing private contractors, in circumstances such as mine in Caerphilly, needs to be approached with an open mind, with a clear view to how it can benefit those communities, and make safe those tips that Laura Anne Jones and Delyth Jewell have already mentioned? And to approach that with an open mind means accepting that there will be some disruption while that process happens. 

Thanks very much. I think the key thing here is safety. We have to make sure that people in those communities are safe. We've got a terrible tragedy that is seared on the minds of the people of Wales, and we absolutely need to make sure that that never happens again. That's why making sure safety is our No. 1 is priority is key. Of course, there will be a need for private contractors to remediate some of the tips, but also there has to be recognition that, during that process, to make sure that it's safe, communities understand there may need to be a degree of disruption in order to support and to ensure the safety of the people who live nearby. So, an open mind absolutely needs to be kept.

As Delyth Jewell reminded us, history is important. It was one of Cardiff's busy docks that was on this site—a dock that was opened to take the coal that went to all four corners of the globe. The historian Dr John Davies told me that the waste from the Aberfan disaster filled this dock, and, therefore, our Senedd and Welsh democracy are built on that appalling tragedy. So, it's ironically cruel, isn't it, that one of the greatest failings of the devolution settlement, the failings of the Conservatives, and now the Labour Party too, is that we haven't come to an agreement as to who will clear these coal tips. 

Aberfan was betrayed by George Thomas, it was betrayed by the Harold Wilson Government. Dangers were ignored, and compensation for the victims and their families was used to clear the tips. The people of the Valleys deserve far better than this, Prif Weinidog. Is Keir Starmer's Government going to pay to clear these tips? Thank you.

Thank you very much. I hadn't heard that before—that this site was built on the spoils of the Aberfan disaster. But if it is the case, I think it's very important that we respect our past and ensure, in turn, that nothing similar happens in our communities in future. Once again, I did raise this issue with Keir Starmer, and we will see whether a difference will be made in the budget. We know that there are many demands on that budget, but I do want to make it clear that I have made a very clear case with regard to their responsibility too when it comes to clearing these coal tips.

Thanks very much. I recognise the importance of the marine environment to the people of Wales. Our restorative programmes for marine habitats include the marine protected areas scheme and the Nature Networks programme. We're also committed to understanding our impacts on the marine environment, so that we can target further interventions effectively.

Thank you, First Minister. As you may already know, as many Members in this Chamber know, I'm the Senedd species champion for seagrass, and I was delighted to have read the national seagrass action plan earlier in the year, which was published by Seagrass Network Cymru. It identifies six key objectives aimed at both retaining and expanding our seagrass meadows, which sadly have declined by 92 per cent over the last 100 years. However, I've recently noticed that the Welsh Government have not endorsed this plan. I know that doing so would help Seagrass Network Cymru to pursue their objectives, in particular attracting outside investment. Whilst I appreciate that you have been busy over the summer, due to the narrow windows for harvesting and planting of seagrass, delays in supporting this plan will have a big impact, because seagrass projects have to wait for another season before they can scale up their plans as per the new objectives. With this in mind, does the First Minister know of any reasons for not endorsing the plan? And if there are, would you be prepared to meet with Seagrass Network Cymru to discuss them? And if not, would you be prepared to endorse the plan, at least in principle, so Seagrass Network Cymru can start actioning their objectives?

Thanks very much, and thank you for the work you do as a champion for seagrass. I found out a really interesting statistic recently, which is that seagrass has the potential to store up 170 per cent more carbon per square mile compared to forests. I thought that was incredible. And I just think, if that's the case, then we absolutely have a responsibility to do something in this space where actually we've got the right environment for this to happen. So, thank you, Joel, for bringing this up. I know that the suggestions in that report have been given to the Cabinet Secretary who is responsible for climate change, and he has agreed to meet with the organisation to consider. But seagrass—wow, that's a revolutionary concept for me. I only learned this last year. I'm very excited, and I think we should do more in this space.

Question 5 [OQ61722] has been withdrawn. 

We are focused on reducing and preventing waste across the food system. Our circular economy strategy 'Beyond Recycling' has an ambition to halve avoidable food waste by 2025 compared to the 2007 baseline, and by 60 per cent by 2030, by taking action to support the reduction of food waste throughout the supply chain.

Thank you for that initial answer, which sounds like a very challenging target. Because in the context of one third of all food produced across the world never being eaten, and contributing at the same time to 10 per cent of global carbon emissions, these are really big and important figures. So it's no wonder that the UN sustainable development goal is to halve global food waste at both retail and consumer level.

All of this is about unequal relationships, isn't it? While some people go hungry, other people buy BOGOFs and then throw some of them away. Supermarkets can turn around and say what they asked the farmer to produce was not what they want to buy, and then they dump it on them to get rid of it themselves. Just as we are rightly proud of our record as the second in the world for recycling, what are we actually going to do, with distributors, retailers and the public, to drive down food waste so that what we buy we use, and what we commit to, if we're retailers, we actually do buy?

Thanks very much. You'll be very interested to learn that our Be Mighty campaign, which is specifically targeted at food waste, launched yesterday. That is all about not throwing away the food you could eat and recycling what can't be eaten. That's a project that started yesterday. I think it probably is worth noting that a quarter of rubbish in bins is still food. That's still quite a lot. We've done a huge amount on recycling in Wales, something we should be really proud of, but I think in this space we can go a bit further.

Eighty per cent of food in rubbish could have been eaten. If you think about that not just in terms of waste, but also in terms of money, especially when you have people in food poverty buying food that they then don't eat, there's a real opportunity here. The average Welsh household throws away £49-worth of food every month. That's quite a high figure, and there's an opportunity for us all to maybe buy only what we need and to make sure that we don't throw out excess.

When it comes to the industry, FareShare Cymru, who you'll be aware of, takes surplus food from the food and drink industry and redistributes it to organisations in Wales that feed people in need.

Shwmae. Recent data shows Wales generated over 300 million kg of household food waste, averaging 100 kg per person. Shockingly, 75 per cent of this waste was edible and could have fed those in need. Also, the hospitality sector actually dispose of tonnes of edible fruit, vegetables and meat, often not knowing how they could distribute it. The greenhouse gas emissions from this are immense, accounting for nearly 1 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent each year. Not only this, but wasting this food—you've just pointed this out—has a huge financial cost, estimated to be around £0.75 million each year, about £250 per person. 

Does the First Minister therefore not agree that we are, actually, in a quandary or a real pickle here? What guidance, what advice can you give to the hospitality sector? And how will you promise to ensure that you engage with local authorities, our health authorities and any organisations where you believe this food waste is taking place? How will you, as the First Minister, become involved in this? Let's try and drive those horrific figures down. Diolch. 

Thanks very much. You're quite right that there's more we can do here, and there's more that businesses can do. I do think they have to take some responsibility. But there are surpluses for many reasons. It can be, for example, oversupply, overordering, obsolete seasonal stock, packaging issues or production trials.

What we've got to do, where that happens, is ask why we can't distribute it to the people who actually need it—what is the framework for that to happen, how can we facilitate that as a Government. That's why we have this FareShare Cymru project. They administer the Surplus with Purpose Cymru fund. That aims to overcome the barriers that Welsh food and drink businesses face when they're thinking about redistributing that food surplus, so that at least the surplus then can go to somewhere that needs it, rather than become waste.

I'll give you an example of that in Haverfordwest: Puffin Produce. They've been donating their surplus food to FareShare Cymru since 2020. It equates to about 21,800 meals. So, there's real opportunity here for people to benefit in terms of not seeing that waste going into landfill, or whatever, and then also for us to really give support to people who need it at this difficult and challenging time.

Health boards are responsible for the planning and delivery of safe, quality healthcare services for their local population. This includes making decisions about the most effective way to provide care. There are established procedures for handling changes to the delivery of local services, including engagement with local communities and Llais.

Thank you for your answer, First Minister. I attended a meeting in Llanidloes in August; hundreds attended from the community. Not only were voices of concern expressed in that meeting from the public and politicians, but also from GPs past and present and other health professionals about Powys Teaching Health Board's proposals to downgrade services at Llanidloes hospital. Last week, the health board approved the proposals for what they refer to as a 'temporary change' for ward-based services at the hospital. First Minister, what is your view on this matter—obviously, as a regional Member as well as the First Minister? You will know I've written to you, the former health Minister, and also the current health Minister, particularly in regard to the consultation, whether that was adequate, because it took place over the August period, and also on the term 'temporary change' and to what degree you accept that this will be a temporary change. But also, of course, the health board pointed out that they carried this out due to budgetary pressures.  

Thanks very much. You will be aware that service changes are not a decision for the Welsh Government and that the Welsh Government's role is to provide strategic direction. It is up to the local health boards to respond to the local needs. It doesn't make sense for us to be managing that from an office in Cardiff.

What I will tell you is that there is a statutory role in terms of how you consult, how you make those changes, and changes, I'm sure, will be—. There'll be continual changes in the health service. It's quite right that we have to change constantly if we want to keep updated. We may see more specialist areas, we may find that it's difficult to recruit people, but, primarily, it's got to be about safety and outcomes, what is the best outcome for the patient. That's what really should be driving what we do here.

What I can tell you is that the end-of-life care will continue to be provided in Bronllys and Llanidloes hospital; set-up care, including rehabilitation and reablement, will continue to be available for GP admissions. So, there is still a facility there.

I have regular positive discussions with the UK Government. The Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales is working closely with Ministers in the Department for Transport and the Secretary of State for Wales to deliver improvements to rail infrastructure through the Wales rail board.

Diolch, First Minister. You've stated that Wales is currently being short-changed after being denied funding deriving from the HS2 project from the previous Government, which did not see a single inch of railway track being built in Wales. And, as we await the UK Government's budget later this month, we know, from soundings from the UK transport Secretary, Louise Haigh, that modifications and further decisions concerning HS2 will be made, i.e. whether the line runs to Euston and whether there'll be a modified plan north of Birmingham.

First Minister, we know that the Welsh finance Secretary, Mark Drakeford, has written to the UK Chancellor in advance of her budget, asking for a fair approach to how Barnett consequentials are applied to Wales, and referencing transport directly. In the days that lie ahead of the UK budget on 30 October, then, what further representations have you, First Minister, made, and will the Welsh Government make, both to the Prime Minister and the Chancellor, that the people of Wales expect a Labour UK Government to deliver fairly for the people of Wales?

Thanks very much, Rhianon, and our position on HS2 and fairness in relation to rail infrastructure has not changed. We were short-changed in relation to HS2; we will continue to make the case for that to be corrected. I think it's really important for us to manage expectations here. I am making the case constantly, as is the finance Secretary, and also the transport Secretary, for them to really understand that we are not giving up on this. I think it's important to manage expectations. I am not expecting anything to be announced in the forthcoming budget, but what I will say is that I have been making those representations; I've been making them very loudly, very clearly, and made it very clear that we're not backing down from this.

Finally, question 9, Luke Fletcher.

We have worked in partnership with the fire and rescue service and unions to reduce the risks to the health of firefighters. We've also taken action in response to reports where the well-being of firefighters might be at risk.

Thank you for that response, First Minister.

On several occasions, I've highlighted the work of Professor Anna Stec in this Chamber, whose research has found that instances of cancer among firefighters aged 35 to 39 are 323 per cent higher than in the general population. Now, I know that the Welsh Government is familiar with that research and has taken it through the social partnership forum, and I want to seek an update on how this is being acted upon today. Because the Health and Safety Executive are now acting on the overwhelming evidence and have taken the welcome step of setting out plans to start inspecting fire and rescue services to regulate measures taken to protect firefighters. So, will the Welsh Government work with the Health and Safety Executive in Wales, and fire and rescue services, to bring in regulation that mitigates the effects of carcinogens on Welsh firefighters? And would this Government go one step further and bring in health monitoring for Welsh firefighters? This isn't something that we should have to wait on the UK National Screening Committee to provide advice on; the evidence is plain for all to see.

Well, thanks very much. I think we should all give thanks for the incredible risks that our firefighters take on our behalf in supporting us, and so it is important that the service treats firefighter safety as a top priority, and thank you for the work that you've done on this; I know this is of real importance to you. And you're quite right, the research has shown that firefighters face an increased risk of certain cancers, arising as a result of their exposure to smoke-filled environments, and we support the Fire Brigades Union's campaign to reduce those risks. 

Now, what we did was last year we concluded an agreement between employers and unions to reduce the exposure of firefighters in smoke-filled environments, and, under this, all three fire and rescue services in Wales have adopted best practice in the use and maintenance of breathing apparatus, so there were some fundamental things that weren't being done and now need to be done systematically, and I think there's that real focus on that now and that reduces the exposure to carcinogens significantly.

I thank the First Minister.

The next item will be the business statement and announcement, and I call on the Trefnydd to make that statement—Jane Hutt.

Thank you very much, Llywydd, and shwmae, everyone. There are no changes to this week's business. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out in the business statement and announcement, which is available to Members electronically.

Trefnydd, it is Baby Loss Awareness Week this week, and I've been contacted by a number of constituents, including the author in my constituency, Melanie Gizzi, to hear about their experiences with baby loss. One of the things that they have raised concerns about is the unavailability of baby loss certificates, unfortunately, here in Wales. I know that these have been available in Scotland since last October, and indeed in England since February, and I think it is time that Wales caught up on this front. I can see the Cabinet Secretary for health nodding, which I'm very pleased to hear, so I would be grateful if a formal statement could be made by the Welsh Government on its approach to baby loss certificates to make sure that those who've suffered such painful experiences in Wales can have the opportunity to have a baby loss certificate in recognition of their loss.

Secondly, can I also call for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary with responsibility for rural affairs to provide a written update on the sustainable farming scheme discussions, which have been ongoing for some time now? One of the concerns that has been raised with me by farmers in my own constituency is that they're in the dark as to the progress that's being made in those discussions. I appreciate that the discussions are being held in a closed environment in order that people can be candid with one another about their aims, but I do think that the farming community deserve to know where things are up to, and I think it is an opportune time to do so now in advance of when those discussions conclude towards the end of the year.

Diolch yn fawr, Darren. I think these are two very important questions. The first one on baby loss: in fact, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being, Jeremy Miles and Sarah Murphy, are very much aware of this, and I think, just to recognise again and state in terms of acknowledging this important issue, losing a child is so devastating. We want to ensure that we provide families with the care and support they need. We've made improvements to bereavement services; we're developing new pathways for pregnancy and baby loss, and our national bereavement framework sets out the support people should expect to receive if they're facing or have experienced a bereavement. The first psychology-led bereavement service to be funded and recruited to within Wales was launched in Cardiff and Vale University Health Board last week, so I'm sure that's acknowledged now and we will be making a statement on that.

Your second point is important, and I'm very much aware that we've got a major debate on this next week, involving more than one committee, which the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary will be responding to, and just to reassure Members again that the Welsh Government's listening to farmers, and not just listening, working with them to introduce the new sustainable farming scheme in 2026.

Shwmae, Trefnydd. In August 2023, and following on from the co-operation agreement, an independent review was published of section 19 reports by local authorities and Natural Resources Wales with regard to extreme flooding during the winter of 2020-21 by Professor Elwen Evans KC. She drew attention the strategic and practical changes and the changes to policies that could strengthen the inquiry process when it comes to flooding, acknowledging the weaknesses in the section 19 system at present. May I ask the Cabinet Secretary for climate change, therefore, for a statement providing an update on this important work? Clearly, the community voice is particularly important when it comes to understanding flooding. As we know, we can't prevent flooding from happening, but the communities that suffered flooding in 2020-21 want an update on what came from this work by Elwen Evans and how we're going to see that then being reflected in policy changes.

Thank you, and shwmae, Heledd, too.

Well, I really very much acknowledge the inquiry that took place following the terrible floods of 2020-21, and indeed the recommendations from that inquiry. Yes, it was very much part of our co-operation agreement, but Welsh Government wanted to learn the lessons. It is about learning the lessons, and I know that the Cabinet Secretary is following this up.

In terms of the strategic overview of addressing flooding across Wales, of course this is something where our local authorities are key as the responsible bodies and authorities for flooding, and I think many of us in this Chamber will have had this experience, sadly, in our constituencies. But, on the other hand, I think, probably, the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary would want to also be able to report on the impact of all the investment we've made in flood prevention. It is about prevention, and it is about doing this from a strategic perspective as one of our priorities.

The chief executive of Caerphilly County Borough Council has had her severance package agreed, and has left the authority. The payout was, according to the BBC, £209,000. She hadn't been in work since November, following allegations, according to the BBC, about working relationships and trust with senior councillors, which were not proven, and in fact were proven to be spurious and vexatious. The working relationships then would be very difficult to repair and, in fact, a disciplinary investigation might have been appropriate. But the problem in this case is that a disciplinary investigation, involving the appointment of a designated independent person to investigate, the disciplinary investigation itself, and then the risk, in any employment situation, of a tribunal, would have added increasing costs to the council that go way beyond the £209,000 it cost to pay her off. This is a problem in the system. It is not a problem for the leadership of the council. They have acted in the public interest by gaining a dismissal in this way, and they've done the right thing.

Back in 2020, the Welsh Government agreed, through the Oldham review, to review the process by which the designated independent person process is run, and the Oldham review came up with some recommendations that the Welsh Government then consulted on. But, following that, nothing else has happened. I'd like to revisit this, and I think we should do so in Plenary. Would the Trefnydd, therefore, agree for the Cabinet member for local government to make a statement on this so that we can ask further questions about what can happen next and prevent councils being in the situation that Caerphilly has been in, where an errant officer has caused the problems?

Thank you for your very important question, and shwmae, Hefin.

I have to say, this is entirely, as you acknowledge, a matter for Caerphilly County Borough Council, so it's not really appropriate for me, and indeed for the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government, to be involved in or comment on the internal management matters of Caerphilly council. And, of course, I'd also have to say that a Welsh Government intervention in a council is a serious matter. It would have to follow a sustained period of serious and wide-ranging service and corporate governance failures. But, always, the Cabinet Secretary is prepared to have discussions with councils that they wish to seek support for improvement under the Local Government and Elections (Wales) Act 2021, and your points, of course, now are on the record for the Chamber.

Trefnydd, as you know, it's Breast Cancer Awareness Month, and I hope very much that Members have called into the Wear it Pink photocall upstairs, but this afternoon, I’d like to call for a statement on bowel cancer screening from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care. As we know, bowel cancer is one of the most common types of cancer in Wales, and it’s believed that around 2,400 people are diagnosed annually. Now, the Welsh Government has recently announced that people aged 50 and over will automatically receive at-home bowel screening tests, and whilst that’s a welcome step forward, there’s clearly more that needs to be done for those outside this age range. A constituent of mine who is over the age of 74 has informed me that they asked for a screening kit and were told that, although it’s available in England, it’s not yet available here in Wales. Clearly, the earlier a cancer is detected, the better the outcomes for the patient, and, as someone living with cancer myself, I know just how important early detection is. Therefore, I’d be grateful if time was made for a statement on bowel cancer screening so that the Welsh Government can tell us more about how it’s helping to beat bowel cancer.

Thank you very much, and shwmae, Paul. And thank you very much for your very important question. 

Thank you, also, for the fact that you have drawn attention to Wear it Pink. I think we all donned a pink hat and we were there to support Breast Cancer Awareness Month. But I think the Cabinet Secretary would be happy to update you on bowel cancer awareness, because it is good news. It’s good news that, last week—I think it was 9 October—we reduced it to 50 years, and I think that needs to be on the record. I think that communication, of course, is of the essence, because people don’t always know and don’t always get the right information, and also there's the fact that, if there is screening—bowel screening—there’s a 90 per cent improved chance of survival with bowel screening. So, I know this is something where we should all be taking responsibility, sharing the information, and also welcoming the fact that it is now reduced to the age of 50 for those who will get engaged and be able to access bowel screening.

Good afternoon, Trefnydd. I would like to request, please, a statement from the Counsel General regarding the progress on the proposed legislation aimed at combating deception in politics. Back in July, following a debate in the Senedd, I was pleased to see the Welsh Government commit to bringing forward legislation on this matter, with a clear deadline to do so before the election in 2026. However, in recent weeks, concerns have been raised about whether the Welsh Government will fully deliver on this pledge. It would be deeply concerning and cruelly ironic if this critical legislation on deception were not brought forward due to the Government wavering on its commitments. Failing to deliver would undermine the agreement made in the Senedd, which would also further erode public trust. Could I, therefore, seek your reassurance, and reassurance from the Counsel General, that the Welsh Government remains fully committed to introducing legislation to disqualify Members found guilty of deliberate deception by 2026 as promised? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you very much for your question. And shwmae, Jane.

This is an important question, and the Welsh Government is clear that it is important that Members are properly held accountable for deceptive statements that they may make, and the Welsh Government supports measures to strengthen the accountability of individual Members. The Senedd has agreed that the most appropriate way to approach this issue in the first instance is through the inquiry that the Standards of Conduct Committee is undertaking into individual Member accountability. The committee, I know, is progressing this work, and, having recently concluded the public consultation, we look forward to the publication of its recommendations before the end of the year.

Trefnydd, 14 years of Tory austerity have left parts of our justice system at a precipice and close to collapse. One of the reasons we have pressed for youth justice devolution and probation is because it is so well fitted within devolved functions and responsibilities. Commissions have supported this, as have, in fact, Welsh Labour policies, and, in fact, Welsh Government policy. Can we have a statement from the Welsh Government with regard to the discussions that have taken place, or are to take place, with the UK Government about the timetable and when the devolution of youth justice and probation will take place?

Shwmae, Mick.

Shwmae.

Thank you very much for that question. If we look at the devolution of youth justice, we need to look at youth justice in the context of the whole of justice devolution. Our ultimate objective as a Welsh Government is to secure the devolution not just of youth justice and probation, but, for example, also of policing. That was advocated by the Thomas commission. But we do need a phased approach, and that was very much reflected in the manifesto commitment of the new UK Government on the devolution of powers over youth justice and probation services. We do welcome the opportunity to work with the new UK Government on, particularly, that phased approach with youth justice and probation. But also, we're looking at how devolution might work in those areas. A lot of work has been done, and I would like to thank the former Counsel General and the role that he formerly took to progress this. We were very fortunate to have the specialist advice and input of Dame Vera Baird, who's continuing to advise us on this matter. I would say that I'm looking forward to working not only with the UK Government, but, of course, with my colleague the Deputy First Minister, who is taking responsibility for progressing these devolution issues.

But just on youth justice, I think we can prove, through the youth justice blueprint, the outcomes of it, how it makes absolute sense to keep young people out of the youth justice system, if there is devolution of youth justice. That's been proven by all those at the front line of youth justice and by the engagement of many in the academic world as well. But I think that our psychology-led children's rights first approach shows that the devolution of youth justice is the way forward, and we hope we can now progress that ambition.

I'd like a statement today from the Cabinet Secretary on the current proposals to build a 3,000 acre solar farm on the Isle of Anglesey. Plans for the Maen Hir solar and energy storage site are being drawn up as we speak, despite massive local opposition from local communities and authorities. This proposal will negatively impact local agricultural land. Nobody is complaining about solar; it's a good part of renewable energy. However, the size and mass scale of this is just—. Residents believe it's not suitable. As I've emphasised repeatedly in the Chamber, Wales's food security is at risk due to our over-reliance on greenhouse gas-intensive imports and the lack of a coherent, well-rounded piece of food-focused legislation. During the passing of the legislation for the infrastructure Bill, I asked how local residents and affected communities will be able to input into larger scale projects like that, that can be seen as a blot on the landscape and have detrimental effects, such as affecting our food production. So, can the Cabinet Secretary please provide a statement on how they will address the concerns of the residents? Thank you.

Of course, these are matters for the local authority, planning, and, indeed, depending on the circumstances, they may come to Welsh Ministers. I think that the case for renewables and for the progress that we need to make on that front is absolutely clear, and I think the Deputy First Minister will be making that clear in terms of our strategic approach. You've put your concerns on behalf of constituents on the record. But let's just recognise, and I certainly feel, that the alternative to fossil fuel is absolutely clear and this is where we should be going. I suspect an awful lot of people in Wales agree with that.

I want to ask for two statements. Firstly, I'm asking for a statement about toilets that are available to the public. It's not about public toilets but about toilets that are available either in public buildings or in businesses that are prepared to make their toilets available. These need to be identified so that members of the public know where they are. Available toilets are important not just to older people, pregnant women and those suffering with Crohn's disease, but also for coeliacs and those suffering from inflammatory bowel disease. Whilst council-run toilets have reduced, the need for toilets has not.

Secondly, I'm asking for a Government statement on GP training and provision. This should include why the number undertaking GP training is capped at 160. The British Medical Association tell me that, for £10 million a year, the number can be increased by 40, to 200. This would then reduce locum costs, improve the service to the public and reduce demand on A&E, which has become, in many places, the default service for those who cannot get a primary care appointment.

Thank you very much for your very important questions, and shwmae, Mike.

Shwmae.

Right, I think these are important questions, and the toilets available to all and the public are crucially important for all generations and in all communities. I think that we now need to have, with local government, a refreshed approach to this in terms of business and public facilities on the streets. So, I will raise that with the relevant Cabinet Secretary.

Also, in terms of GP training, there's no question that this is crucially important to primary care. Prevention, early intervention, as we know, is the way forward, but also, of course, the GP contract enables us to look at this, and I know that's what the Cabinet Secretary is committed to in terms of the way forward.

As chair of the cross-party group on deaf issues, I call for an oral Welsh Government statement to be scheduled here on the scrapped plans to introduce a British Sign Language, BSL, GCSE in Wales. I know you were asked about this in the business statement last week, and in your response you said it was a decision by Qualifications Wales. But the Welsh Government had previously taken the credit for the promised BSL GCSE on many occasions, and they're directly responsible for the practical challenges identified by Qualifications Wales, including sufficient teaching supply in Wales. Alternative proposals by Qualifications Wales are seen to be a fob-off, causing great offence. The National Deaf Children's Society accuse the Welsh Government of going back on its word. They and the charity Signature wrote to both the education Secretary and you expressing their dismay, despair and disappointment at the devastating news, and the British Deaf Association Cymru said 

'This is a slap in the face for deaf children and their friends and classmates across Wales. 

'We urgently need a BSL Act in Wales'.  

Members must be allowed to question the Welsh Government about this, and I call for an oral statement to be scheduled in a future Plenary session accordingly.

Thank you very much, Mark Isherwood, and I acknowledge your important role in terms of the cross-party group on deaf issues and recognise the work that you undertake in this field, and also the engagement you have with those who have raised this issue, and the disappointment we must acknowledge in terms of the response that we've given. The decision to suspend the development of BSL GCSE is a decision taken by Qualifications Wales in their role as our independent qualifications regulator, and they published their decision to suspend the development of a made-for-Wales GCSE in BSL, but it did state its intention to develop BSL units as part of the new skills suite qualification, and that's going to be available for the first teaching in schools from September 2027. And it is also possible for Qualifications Wales to make available to Welsh schools and learners the BSL GCSE currently being developed in England. It's important that we share this and communicate what this means and how this will be taken forward. And I think it is important that the Cabinet Secretary for Education, clearly, is engaging, as I will do, from a disability rights taskforce perspective, as Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice.  

I must declare an interest as a proud member of the Unite union. And shwmae, Trefnydd. I would like to request a statement from the Minister for Social Partnership regarding Unite union's ongoing dispute with Oscar Mayer in Wrexham. Oscar Mayer have entered into a fire-and-rehire process that would see 800 workers losing up to £3,000 a year. Workers are being threatened with fire and rehire, and they are threatened with dismissal if they do not sign up to this fire and rehire, and what they're being offered—the new terms and conditions. It covers the right to paid breaks and also includes the premium bank holiday pay. They are now in their tenth week of dispute, and it's causing a lot of distress. I’m really concerned that Oscar Mayer will not come around the table to talk, despite this being requested, and I believe that a statement from the Welsh Government would send a clear message to that company that this kind of intimidation of workers is not acceptable here in Wales, and that they must get back around the table and talk to the Welsh Government as soon as possible to get a fair resolution for workers. Thank you.

Thank you very much for that question, Carolyn Thomas, on behalf of your constituents and those affected by the Oscar Mayer Rowan Foods Wrexham situation. It is important that representatives from Unite union met with you and the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership, hearing first-hand their concerns about Oscar Mayer’s action. From the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning and the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership, a joint letter was sent to the chief executive of Oscar Mayer, and in that letter serious concerns were expressed. A meeting was requested for the company to provide a full account of the current situation. The company has responded to the letter and they’ve declined a meeting and asserted that they’ve complied with employment legislation. But we are clear that imposing inferior terms and conditions on workers through the tactic of fire and rehire has no place in a modern and civilised labour market. Such practices are not consistent with our values of fair work and social partnership. And this is a strong message from the Chamber, from the Senedd, to this company today as a result of your question, Carolyn Thomas: any changes to pay, terms and conditions should be agreed through negotiation with the workforce.

Trefnydd, I’d like to call for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, giving details on the British and Welsh Government’s plans for collaboration between the Welsh and English health services. We heard from the leader of Plaid Cymru earlier some of the confusion in relation to this, and I’ve raised it in this Chamber in recent weeks as well. We know the Cabinet Secretary has set up an advisory group primarily looking at waiting lists, but the written statement in relation to this made no reference to this supposed partnership with the British Government and, seemingly, in multiple interviews he has rejected the idea of increasing the number of Welsh patients going to hospitals in England, despite this being an announcement from the Secretary of State for Wales with much fanfare just a few weeks ago at the Labour Party conference. So, to clear the air on this issue, and to get some clarity around the confusion around this new partnership working, we’d welcome a statement on these plans as soon as possible. Thank you very much.

Well, I don’t think the Cabinet Secretary really has anything more to add to what he has said and indeed what the First Minister has said. But I do think it’s really important, and I’m glad you’ve acknowledged, that the Cabinet Secretary has announced an external ministerial advisory group on NHS performance and productivity—remember those two words: performance and productivity—with experts coming to advise us. I would have thought you’d have welcomed that, Sam Rowlands, that we have reached out to ensure that we can learn from others, and I think they will learn from us as well. Actually, the meetings start next week—the Cabinet Secretary says that the meeting is next week. But can we just also remember that our Welsh NHS treats more than 2 million people every month, has been provided with record levels of funding, and we continue to champion the NHS as a Welsh Government? This is about us now acknowledging the progress that we’re making with performance and productivity.

I was wondering if I could have an urgent statement from the Government, preferably at the despatch box now, Minister, with regard to the response that you gave to the leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats, who asked whether the Government remained committed to the undertaking that it gave in this Chamber in relation to proposals around deliberate deception. Just to remind the Siambr, that undertaking was that

'the Welsh Government will bring forward legislation before 2026 for the disqualification of Members and candidates found guilty of deliberate deception through an independent judicial process'. 

Now, the question wasn’t answered by you, Minister, and that does raise a doubt in my mind. If there has been a change in the Government's position, then it's important that the Senedd is informed, particularly because this was an agreement signed by Ministers, repeated in this Chamber, votes happened as a result of that agreement and, indeed, the Senedd would have been misled if the Government has now changed its position. I've also written to you on this matter and I haven't had a response, so I was wondering if you could clarify this for the Senedd and also for the public, who will have a great interest in this matter. 

Well, diolch, Adam Price. I think, as I did answer, I sought to reassure Jane Dodds, the leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats, that the Senedd did agree that the most appropriate way was through the inquiry that the Standards of Conduct Committee is undertaking. It's progressing, that work. They've concluded their public consultation. What was really important—I remember those discussions—was that you and, indeed, Lee Waters, were able to attend those meetings of the standards committee. It was part of our commitment in terms of bringing forward legislation that we would invite the Standards of Conduct Committee to make proposals on that basis. So, I and I'm sure you also, and colleagues, await the publication of the recommendations, which are going to come before the end of the year.

Next week, there will be a Member's debate on assisted dying in this house, put forward by Members of three different political parties, and this will be in advance of the private Member's Bill that will be coming up in Westminster, and I'm very pleased that we will have the opportunity to have this debate here in Wales. I wanted to ask the leader of the house: what will be the position of the Cabinet in this debate? Will members of the Cabinet be able to have a free vote on this issue of conscience, rather than abstain, as they normally do, on Members' debates? 

Thank you very much, Julie Morgan. I do think it's really helpful that you've brought forward this question this week, because it can remind people of what's happening next week, which is a really important debate, a Member's debate that you have brought forward, with support, on assisted dying. We know, just for context for colleagues, that Lord Falconer's private Member's Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults Bill received its First Reading in the House of Lords in July of this year. It's at a very early stage in its passage, and we understand that Kim Leadbeater MP will introduce a similar Bill to the House of Commons within the next few weeks. So, it's very topical and current, and a debate and initial vote will take place later this year. We are in regular contact with the UK Government on the issue.

It is a parliamentary tradition that there are free votes on matters of conscience. Indeed, the debate is next Wednesday, and I was looking back and the last time that we debated this was in 2014. So, I think we've got a good opportunity now for Members to prepare, and this is a matter of conscience in terms of this Bill.

And finally, Gareth Davies. 

May I seek a Welsh Government statement, particularly from the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership, regarding the Welsh Government's view or take on the importance of radio, and particularly community and hospital radio? Yesterday, I visited Radio Glan Clwyd in my constituency, on the Glan Clwyd Hospital estate. Historically, they functioned on 1287 on medium wave or amplitude modulation, as some people may be more familiar with, but they've caught up with modern times, and they now have an online services that patients can, indeed, tune into. So, I'm keen to know—. I forgot to say, sorry, that they are run solely by volunteers and they play a big role in people's experience in hospital and also in terms of patients' mental health and well-being, particularly during and after hospital visits. So, I'm aware that the Government haven't covered this medium of broadcasting substantially during this Senedd term, and following my visit I would be keen to know what the Welsh Government's view is on the importance of and the role that hospital radios play within the healthcare systems, and how they can support health boards in terms of patients' mental health and well-being during their stays in hospital, as they play a vital role in many communities, not just mine, but across Wales as well.

Well, thank you very much for that important question. It's very much a cross-Government question, I would say, because it's not just the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership, but the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being. And I have to say, myself, as Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, that I'm always so impressed with the volunteering effort, not just with hospital radio, but with all of our community radio stations, and can I have the privilege of mentioning Bro Radio, in my constituency, which is completely personned by volunteers? So, I think this is something that is really important in the hospital setting, and I think it would be good for us to look at this in terms of an update on the support that health boards, principally, but also charitable trusts within health boards and volunteers give, particularly to the hospital radio system.

I thank the Trefnydd.

Item 3 today is a statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs on circular economy opportunities and outcomes of Circular Economy Hotspot Cymru 2024. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Huw Irranca-Davies.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and shwmae, all. Last week, I was proud to open the international Circular Economy Hotspot Cymru event. Wales was selected as the European host in recognition of our good practice and status as a global exemplar. The conference was attended by over 400 people, many of whom had travelled to Wales from across the world to hear insights from our achievements, exchange lessons learned, and create opportunities for collaboration.

Wales indeed has an incredible story to tell on the circular economy, of how our nation has transformed since devolution. Our approach to a circular economy today has evolved from the sustainable development approach we have taken to waste management since the early days of Welsh Government's creation. Back in 1999, we recycled less than 5 per cent of our municipal waste and we sent 95 per cent to landfill. But we have come a long way.

Our municipal landfill rate is now down to 1.6 per cent, and we're aiming to phase it out entirely. And now, Wales has climbed to second in the world for recycling, with our journey taking us from having recycled less than 5 per cent of our waste to now over 65 per cent. This year also sees our statutory minimum target for recycling increasing to 70 per cent.

But while we are rightly proud of our achievements to date, there is much more to do. The title of our circular economy strategy makes our direction of travel very clear: 'Beyond Recycling'. We are determined to shape a truly circular economy. And this means keeping resources and materials in use for as long as possible and avoiding all waste, so, for example, by reusing, repairing and remanufacturing; increasing resource efficiency; and using recycled materials instead of raw materials in the products we make.

I am therefore very pleased that this statement comes alongside the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning's statement on the key role of renewable energy in growing the green economy. The transition to renewable energy and the transition to a circular economy are both essential, together.

And if we succeed, as well as helping us tackle the climate and the nature crises, it will also bring many other benefits to Wales and to the Welsh economy. Resource efficiency makes our economy more productive. More resilient supply chains mean stronger local economies. And in a decarbonising global economy, transitioning early to a circular economy is crucial to making Wales more competitive and resilient.

As we highlighted at the conference, business plays a vital role. This is why we have created a circular economy fund for business to help them innovate; to adapt their processes; to, for example, use recycled content; to adopt circular business models; and to increase resource efficiencies. Many of the businesses that have already benefited from the funding took part in that circular economy hotspot last week and we were able to showcase their work to delegates from right across the world.

We are also working strategically with major companies to create the economic infrastructure we need for that circular economy. Our world-class recycling is a solid foundation and is already bringing investment and jobs into Wales, with our high-quality recycling helping to attract investment, for example in a state-of-the-art plastic recycling facility in Swansea, creating 100 new jobs. Just a few weeks ago we saw the announcement of major investment of over £1 billion in the redevelopment of Shotton Mill in north Wales, safeguarding 147 jobs. Once fully operational, the site will become one of the UK’s largest recycled packaging centres, creating a further 220 jobs. We are also fortunate to already have fine examples like the Royal Mint, who have started production, from their groundbreaking facility, extracting the precious materials and reusable components from electronic waste.

During the hotspot conference, we also shone a spotlight on our partnership working with local government. This approach has not only been pivotal to our success in recycling but is already taking an important next step with the roll-out of infrastructure to support repair and reuse right across Wales. I’m very proud to say that 80 per cent of our local authorities now have a dedicated reuse or repair facility and we are working to expand this further across the country. In partnership with the third sector—many of whom were represented at the hotspot last week—our infrastructure also now includes a network of repair cafes in 119 communities, delivered by Repair Cafe Wales. Benthyg Cymru have established a network of 23 libraries of things. We have also expanded FareShare Cymru, which redistributes surplus edible food from businesses. Last year, that food provided over 2 million meals for vulnerable people across Wales, instead of going to waste. A circular economy can be a fairer economy, too. The conference also highlighted the important role of our academic institutions, bringing the benefits of cutting-edge research and innovation to our businesses and communities.

As you can tell, Dirprwy Lywydd, I am extremely proud of what we have achieved so far and it was, I’ve got to say, wonderful to hear the positive feedback from international guests. They were particularly interested in how we have put sustainable development rights at the heart of our approach since the dawn of devolution and how the well-being of future generations guides our decision-making. The conference was a unique opportunity to build and strengthen partnerships both within Wales and with other nations and regions. The presentations and discussions emphasised not only the crucial importance of the circular economy, but the part it can play in delivering a just transition—growing our green economy and ensuring our communities share in the benefits as we work to achieve our climate goals.

So, there’s much more to do, but we should be celebrate that recycling is now part of who we are as a nation. It is also a platform upon which we can lead the next industrial revolution in the same way we did in the last, and grow green jobs for the future. Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Thank you, Deputy First Minister, for your statement.

We on this side of the Chamber recognise and welcome many of the achievements that Wales has made in developing a circular economy, especially our outstanding success in recycling. I think that it is worthy of noting. It has become second nature to most of us, and it’s genuinely impressive that only 1.6 per cent—as you mentioned, Deputy First Minister—of our household waste now goes to landfill. However, as with many of the policies of this Government, good intentions are all too often undermined by poor implementation. Take, for example, the workplace recycling scheme, which came into effect in April of this year. Businesses are more than willing to recycle—they recognise the benefits, as do we—yet the roll-out has left many of them in the dark. There was a lack of consultation, they feel; they feel that the scheme was implemented too hastily. And now, with the threat of unlimited fines hanging over them if they make mistakes, I don’t think that’s really fair.

There’s also been an unfair distinction between care homes and hospitals and GP surgeries, which I have raised previously—possibly not with you, but with a predecessor in this role. So, what support, Cabinet Secretary, are you providing to businesses, particularly small ones, to ensure that they can comply with these new regulations and don't fall foul of those fines? We've heard reports of restaurants and hotels still being issued with the wrong bins, so, clearly, something is amiss here. With more bins comes the practical issue of cluttered streets. Has the Government considered the impact on accessibility and safety, especially in areas where multiple businesses operate side by side? Is too much uncertainty, risk and time being spent on complying with these regulations when even your own survey shows that two thirds of businesses already recycle all that they can?

Turning to household recycling, Wales is already a world leader. We've heard that here this afternoon. But we're seeing more and more Labour-run councils introduce policies that are both unpopular and burdensome. For instance, in Denbighshire, the Labour-led council has scrapped the highly effective and easy-to-use blue wheelie bin service and replaced it with the deeply unpopular Trolibocs system. This has made recycling a real challenge, Deputy First Minister, for local residents. And to add insult to injury, black bin bag collections have been reduced to once every four weeks. Then, in Rhondda Cynon Taf, the Labour council has done away with the popular wheelie bins in favour of black bag bin collections, because the new electric refuse lorries can't even lift them. Is this really how a circular economy is supposed to work? Surely it's about reducing waste, avoiding unnecessary spending and making efficient use of the resources we already have. So, Cabinet Secretary, can I ask what guidance have you given to councils to ensure these changes are both sensible and proportionate?

One topic that was not mentioned in your statement is that of the deposit-return scheme. Once again, we see the Welsh Government pressing ahead here with limited engagement, because, despite a joint UK and Welsh Government consultation concluding in 2022, the Welsh Government seems determined to include glass in the scheme, even though the Institute of Economic Affairs has indicated that excluding glass would reduce costs, as machines handling fewer and lighter materials are cheaper to operate. Cabinet Secretary, will you consider the findings of this report, and ease the burden on small businesses, many of which would find the inclusion of glass costly and time-consuming?

Can we also have an update, please, on the deposit-return scheme and whether you've engaged with a wide range of businesses and stakeholders on whether glass should be included? I've spoken to them, and it's clear that glass shouldn't be included at this time. Take small breweries as an example. Without proper support, they will struggle. They would need to invest in new cleaning equipment and heavier glass bottles, but many simply don't have the funds to do so. So, what financial assistance will be available to support them?

All of this additional pressure on businesses and households could well lead to a rise in fly-tipping, and fly-tipping incidents have increased by 32,000 in the past decade, bringing the total to nearly 40,000. How many of those were fined? Just 55. How does the Welsh Government plan to tackle this growing problem when so few offenders are being held accountable?

To close, Dirprwy Lywydd, while Wales has made significant progress, yes, we must aim higher, beyond just recycling. A circular economy, as the Cabinet Secretary has rightly highlighted, is about reducing waste, but not about creating confusion. So, it's time to stop burdening people and businesses; instead, bring them along on this journey. Wales is doing well, yes, and Wales can achieve so much more, but we must do so in a way that works for everyone. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Sam, diolch yn fawr iawn. Can I, first of all, open just by saying thank you for your support for the work that we have done over a long time, now, actually, to drive us up to the genuinely global-leading nation that we are in recycling and reuse? We have more to do, and I note in your closing remarks there you said we must aim higher, but, actually, the three substantive points you raised were all urging me to go slower and not continue on this ambition and this trajectory that we are on that has got to this global-leading position. So, let me just address those three issues directly.

On workplace recycling, we have indeed worked over a sustained period of several years before bringing this in with all the sectors affected. Many of those sectors themselves have provided the examples of how to introduce this, whether that's in hospitality, retail, camping, caravanning or touring, et cetera. They're all available, by the way, online. They're also available with support from local authorities and from Wrap. What I noticed, Dirprwy Lywydd, is even though there are indeed individuals, including within my own constituency, who sought additional advice, that advice is there. I've directed Members previously to the very good advice, including, by the way, in easily understandable formats, such as 'Here are good examples of how it is working in situ with people who are doing it'.

I've also noticed, Dirprwy Lywydd, actually, how many, within those sectors, have not only encouraged us to go in this way, but how little dissent there has been. When we went through this with household recycling and doorstep recycling, every local authority, while there have been a few odd exceptions, has always had difficulty and challenging times, but actually, because of the work of those partners out there, including within the business sector, this has gone incredibly well, although there are individuals, and I would direct them to those sources that we already have in place and urge Members to do it. That's one of the ones where you're urging us to go slower; I would say, actually, what we need to do is work with the sectors, work with businesses on the ground and get on with it. And it's been several years getting to this point, by the way; it hasn't come overnight.

Secondly, in terms of Denbighshire, repeatedly, again, we have Conservative Members standing up and berating Denbighshire. Let me just point out that Denbighshire is going through this transition, and it is difficult. It has transitioned its recycling and waste service from a co-mingled service—which I suspect is where some Members on those benches are urging them to go back to—which does not separate properly the materials that we would then use for reuse and recycling, and a fortnightly residual collection, to a blueprint-compliant source-segregated service with a four-weekly residual collection, and they introduced this on 3 June. It's early days yet, and rather than berate, we are trying to work with the local authority, through the support of our expert advisers, WRAP Cymru, working with Denbighshire County Council to resolve the early issues. We'll continue that support until the situation is resolved.

Just out of interest, recent reports show a high percentage of rounds being completed properly. But there are residents who've experienced problems and expressed their frustrations, with missed collections, et cetera—that does need to be dealt with. But let me just say, it's not uncommon for service changes to result in problems as a new system beds in and the staff who are delivering the service and the householders get used to a new way of working. We've seen this in other local authorities and many Members will be familiar with it. But if you have high ambition, you need to work through these issues and then get to the other side of them, not constantly undermine it by attacking it and saying, 'Let's go backwards'.

On the third issue of the DRS, it is disappointing to hear that, Sam, from you, and the position of the Welsh Conservatives. Yes, Wales is already a very high-performing nation when it comes to recycling—we're second in the world—but in bringing forward a DRS for Wales, we've got to be mindful that it delivers clear benefits to Wales. So, in line with our commitment to the circular economy strategy, 'Beyond Recycling', which you praised a moment ago, a DRS that includes glass bottles is consistent with our collaborative consultation with the UK Government. And I remind you, Sam, that two years ago when the actual UK-wide consultation took place, that consultation was on the basis of glass—[Interruption.]

I would expect the Cabinet Secretary to be given the opportunity to give the answer without being interrupted all the time.

I don't mind, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Well, I do.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. That consultation was on the basis of glass all in. It was the UK Conservative Government at that time that changed their mind. And we have to ask why, because all the evidence, not only in terms of litter and recycling, but zero-carbon transition, says that glass reuse, as well as recycling, must be part of it. Sam, go back and ask where the evidence takes you. But we are working with the UK Government. Just to say, there are many, many successful international examples of DRS, Sam, and the vast majority include glass as standard. In order for DRS to be effective in Wales, it's vital that the scheme we introduce aligns with our ambitions and the lessons learnt from best practice internationally.

So, it's sad to see that, with your opening remarks, you praised where we'd got to and said that we must aim higher, and then chose, on three specific examples, to say, 'Go slower or reverse'. Well, sorry, leadership in Government is about picking the targets that you need to go for for the good of our communities and also for the good of the planet, and then sticking with them. That's what leadership is all about.

Thank you to the Cabinet Secretary for today's statement. I welcome the statement. Wales has led the way internationally on recycling, and I think that that must be acknowledged. We can take pride in the fact that we are ranked second in the world. The thanks for this are due to the collaboration between local government, national Governments and the people of Wales. 

However, we cannot ignore the fact that this progress has slowed. Recycling rates have broadly remained static, and there are major differences between different local authorities. While some have gone further than the 70 per cent target ahead of schedule, others have struggled to hit even the current target of 64 per cent. So, what will you do to support those councils that are struggling? Why are there still some councils that haven’t adopted the collections blueprint? What can be done to help them? Far too many materials that could be recycled end up in the waste stream, as has been mentioned, including a quarter of food waste. How will you improve this situation, particularly when it comes to food waste from businesses?

Turning to the wider circular economy—I believe that 'economi crwn' is 'circular economy' in Welsh—we must adopt the principles of avoiding waste, and then repair and reuse. Initiatives like Repair Cafe Wales and Benthyg Cymru are excellent examples in this regard. However, they do tend to depend on short-term grants. So, what longer term financial support will be available to ensure that such important initiatives are sustainable?

We've heard already, of course, about the DRS. It is a cause for concern. There has been delay, which has, perhaps, led to 647 million PET bottles, 332 million cans and 61 million glass bottles being sent to landfill, burned or thrown away as litter. It's clear—it's has already been mentioned—that the internal market Act has played a part in this delay. But, bearing in mind the change of Government at Westminster, can we expect a more ambitious timetable for the introduction of DRS here? I realise—again, this has already been mentioned—that local businesses will have concerns. That's understandable. But I agree with you that we need to support this change. So, will you ensure, not just when the DRS is introduced but before it is introduced, that it is done in way that supports small businesses to plan ahead?

And finally, I’d like to emphasise the need to focus now more and more on producing less and less waste. This shift must happen hand in hand with policies such as the right to repair, perhaps reducing VAT on second-hand goods, and greater support for businesses who operate according to this ethos. So, what will you be doing to start a national conversation about all of these issues, and about the need to change our habits, our consumption habits? Will you be introducing clear targets in terms of repair and reuse? Thank you.

Delyth, thank you very much. Today, shwmae, Delyth.

Shwmae.

Shwmae. Can I first of all join with you in congratulating the people of Wales? We talk about third sector partners, local authorities, the business community as well. But, actually, it’s the people of Wales as well who've done the heavy lifting on this and got us to the good place that we are in, and will take us further as well.

You mentioned the differences between the local authorities. They are there, but what we do is very careful mapping of the progress that individual local authorities have made—including, by the way, Denbighshire as well. But whether it’s Caerphilly, Blaenau Gwent or Bridgend or whoever, we have very close engagement at official and also at ministerial level as well. We put in place the guidance and the support and the incentives and, occasionally, the penalties for not achieving the targets that we are all obliged to achieve—all, collectively, obliged to work towards. But that does mean being supportive. It means working with them. Some of these local authorities came from a very different place from the neighbouring authority. They didn’t have the infrastructure in place to do the recycling and reuse that we're asking them to do. So, Welsh Government grants play a role in that as well, and we do that.

But, even though they're in a different place, and not every local authority is quite at the level that we want, we will keep on. There’s my commitment: we will keep on working with them, incentivising, encouraging, providing the ways in which that this can be done with our small but expert team of people that we have as well, and trying to avoid, where we can, resorting to penalising them for not getting there, and instead pushing them along the way, although there are penalties in place as well if they need to be used.

You mentioned the important aspect of food waste, and I’m really pleased to say that it’s this week—actually, yesterday—that we've launched the Be Mighty campaign. We often say that we may be a small nation, but I say we are mighty in what we can do in leadership on this. Most of us know that food waste goes in the food waste caddy; the fact is now that a quarter of our rubbish bins are still made up of food, which carries environmental and cost impacts for households. They're wasting money, but it's also going to places that it shouldn't be going, because we should be using the food more effectively, and recycling it where we can't. The latest food waste report from WRAP Cymru found the average household throws away nearly £50 a month—£50 a month—in waste, in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis. That's what we're throwing away. Eighty per cent of the food found in the rubbish bin could have been eaten, and the rest—things like inedible banana skins, eggshells and such like—could have been recycled in other ways. Every local authority now, I'm proud to say, provides a food waste service. There are increasing participation rates. It's one the easiest ways to further improve recycling, and we've got direct support with local authorities now, and we're aiming to reach that 70 per cent by tackling this part of the waste as well. And the Be Mighty campaign, the focus of that Be Mighty campaign, launched yesterday, is on changing the way people consume and dispose of food, so it never ends up in the rubbish, by focusing on not throwing away food that can be eaten, and recycling what can't be eaten.

You touched as well on the important issue of reuse and repair. There's a whole circular economy piece here. We know that the repair of items keeps them in use for longer, and that, again, when everybody's faced with the cost-of-living crisis, is important. We're relearning old lessons from the past in a modern environment, so we can provide high quality, low-cost reused furniture and fittings, domestic appliances, sports equipment, cloth nappies, school uniforms. We're seeing so much more now being reused and recycled. Borrowing household tools through Benthyg—I borrowed a jet washer the other day from the Newport Benthyg, because mine is broken. Do I go out and spend—I don't know what it is—£100, £150? I didn't. I went in and paid a couple of quid to actually borrow one of these. We've got these shops now right across communities in Wales. So, these are examples of how we can do it. 

And on DRS, which you mentioned, yes, we will indeed work with small businesses. As we are working with the UK Government on the overall roll-out of a four-nation approach to DRS, we hold fast to our long-held position, based on the evidence, of actually going forward with DRS with glass as well. But, in so doing, we will work very closely—. And we have, by the way, met frequently now with a range of businesses in different parts of the supply chain, including those small businesses, to make sure we don't have unintended consequences, and we will work intensely with them to do it. 

The other part of that, of course, which you mentioned, is about reducing waste at source, and that's where the extended producer responsibility piece comes into it, actually putting the polluter-pays principle into operation, so that those people who produce the waste right at the front end are incentivised to cut down on waste, and, where the waste is produced, we actually pass on the funds to local authorities to do more in that space of collecting it, reusing it, recycling. But thank you for your consistent support as well. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

This really is a good news story. I think it started with the 5p carrier bag charge, and then moved into kerbside-sorted recycling, and it made us as residents think about the climate and feel that we're all doing our bit as well. I think we need to promote that 80 per cent of material collected is now sorted and reused here in Wales, and the announcement about Eren Holding, the £1 billion investment, and also 400 really good unionised jobs as well—so, it's retaining the existing and creating more jobs—and that they themselves are going to be using anaerobic digestion as part of their energy scheme is really good.

The biggest issue, I think, with getting those figures up for municipal waste is the food. I'm glad there's a campaign coming out this week, Be Mighty. It's not just food waste—mine's full of peelings; peelings, eggshells, tea bags. But part of that, I think, is to actually say that it goes to a regional anaerobic digester and is made into electricity and then liquid fertiliser, and that was a collaboration between Welsh Government and local authorities many years ago as part of this process. So, that's part of the promotion as well.

Carolyn, thank you very much indeed. It's such an important point. We keep on looking—. We have traditionally—we don't anymore in Wales—looked at waste as an unfortunate byproduct that goes somewhere and disappears, but actually it's a valuable commodity if we use it in the right way. So, just to touch on the food waste, which I'm glad to see you've raised there, in ‘Beyond Recycling’ our approach is we are setting targets to reduce avoidable food waste by 50 per cent by 2025, 60 per cent by 2030, compared to the 2007 baseline. This is high ambition again. Despite what we've heard a little bit earlier within this Chamber, from one part of the Chamber, we have high ambition; we'll keep on going on this and working with the public in order to get to that point. WRAP is currently estimating that food waste makes up almost half of the—. WRAP estimates that food waste currently makes up almost half of the total waste in Wales, according to the Wales baseline report. Their road map in 2023, which they published, identified manufacturing and household food waste as the priority areas to reach the target, so that's why we're focusing on reducing household food waste through campaigns like Be Mighty. And please, Members, go on the website and then share it widely so people can see. Because it's got good advice there on how to actually deal with household food waste, but also support for businesses to reduce waste in the supply chain, and that involves then organisations such as Farming Connect, Business Wales, Fair Share Cymru and others. So, it's a really cross-government and cross-sectoral approach to tackling food waste.

And finally, Jenny Rathbone.

Thank you. I agree with Carolyn Thomas: this really is a good-news story, and I was delighted to have a quick look at what Benthyg Cymru was offering in my area, just being intrigued, and I was really heartened to see that you can rent an eight-person tent for £10 a week and a sleeping bag for £2 a week, which means that people who absolutely can't afford to take a holiday staying in a hotel or a B&B can get the equipment needed to experience the wonders of going camping in the summer.

I just want to come back to something that was raised by Delyth Jewell, which is around these local authorities who are struggling to achieve the 70 per cent recycling rate, because it's a conversation I've had in different parts of the country in the last few months, and I think the most overwhelming argument is that if you don't recycle—separate your waste on the doorstep—you get contaminated mixed waste, which local authorities have to pay to dispose of, and instead you get this wonderful separated waste that you can sell. Now, the difficulty is that, actually explaining that to people, it's difficult. Councils are coy about revealing exactly how much they can get for unadulterated glass, metals—

Jenny, you need to ask a question now, please.

—plastics and paper because of the commercial sensitivities. They want to get the best possible price, they don't want to reveal their hand. So, I feel, in order to really get people to understand why this is so important, perhaps the Government could publish a short paper on what the range of worth of these materials is, so that ordinary people will understand—

Thank you, Jenny. 

—that they are making a proper contribution to their own local authority's income.

Yes, absolutely. Jenny makes such a good point. This is all to do with now and futureproofing. It's savings and resilience for local authorities against what we know is coming if we don't do this, and it's also turning that, then, into jobs and green growth and opportunities, literally jobs in our communities—in Port Talbot, in Blaenau Gwent et cetera. This is what we're talking about, and being early to it as well.

But indeed, since devolution now, this is one of the great success stories of devolution. Welsh Government has invested £1 billion in municipal recycling since devolution—£1 billion. We've put our money where our mouth is and we've worked with people and with business and with local authorities to get this right. We've transformed Wales from a nation that recycled less than 5 per cent of waste to now over 65 per cent, and we're going higher, as long as we have support here across the Chamber. But we'll keep on going for it.

The next target is 70 per cent minimum municipal recycle rate in 2024-25, and the overarching aim of reaching zero waste by 2050. We have got several authorities already reaching over 70 per cent. We'll work with the others. We're saving, Dirprwy Lywydd, over 400,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide every single year from being released into the atmosphere. It’s a key contribution to tackling climate change.

And, just finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, 17 of the 22 local authorities, working with us—working with the support we’ve got—are now blueprint compliant, or in the process of transition into a blueprint-compliant collections profile, where they separate the waste and it’s not contaminated and so on. We’ll continue to work with our local authorities, and with the people of Wales, and with the business sector, to get this right, but we have to do it with the ambition of saving local authorities money, and actually creating green jobs and growth right across Wales.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

The next item will be a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning on energy and the green economy. And I call on the Cabinet Secretary to make the statement. Rebecca Evans.

Diolch. Last week, I set out this Government’s approach to economic growth, working in partnership to build on the unique strengths and opportunities that we have in Wales. Today, I want to update the Senedd on the actions we are taking to create green jobs in Wales as we tackle the climate and nature emergency in the transition to a net-zero energy system.

As we work to improve productivity in Wales, I want to focus on creating the right economic conditions for businesses and workers to flourish. A critical component of a sustainable, fast-growing economy is having reliable, affordable and clean sources of energy. As global energy markets were thrown into turmoil following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, all parts of society felt the impact of the UK's over-reliance on fossil fuels and the impact that changes in global energy prices had on households and businesses.

I am very encouraged that the new UK Government has set a new direction for energy policy. We now have a Government in Westminster that is accelerating action to invest in our domestic energy security; a Government that has a new mission for clean power by 2030; and a Government that has a clear strategy for more green jobs and investment across the nation. And Wales has a fundamental part to play in making Britain a clean-energy superpower.

Our policies are explicitly in favour of new renewable energy projects, so we can meet our renewable energy targets to generate enough electricity to meet our own demand. Our targets also underpin our efforts to increase local ownership, so that the benefits of new infrastructure remain in Wales. This model for benefit retention underpins our work to establish Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru and Ynni Cymru. Here, Wales is leading the way in establishing public energy companies that will develop projects, retaining the income and value in Wales.

In my statement last week, I set out the importance of working in partnership to deliver prosperity across Wales, and this is also true for energy. Wales is the first part of the UK to have local area energy plans, which have identified investment opportunities for the green economy.  And I want to work in partnership with our local authorities and regions to bring forward the investment identified in those plans to deliver growth across all parts of Wales.

I also want to work in partnership with the UK Government. The UK industrial strategy, launched yesterday, set out an ambitious vision for our economy. That strategy identified the role that clean, green industries will have in driving the mission for economic growth. Together with our engagement on the industrial strategy, we have already had positive discussions with the UK Government on working in partnership with Great British Energy to deliver more investment into Wales. We are exploring how, through partnership working with Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru and Ynni Cymru, we can bring more investment into Wales to deliver renewable energy projects for our communities.

More widely, we want to accelerate delivery in Wales. I have committed to agreeing a sector deal with the renewable energy industry to ensure that we have the best conditions to support growth. In Wales, we have an onshore development pipeline in excess of 5 GW, and through fixed and floating offshore wind, we have a further pipeline in excess of 18 GW. Through the sector deal, I will be committing to supporting the acceleration of that pipeline, using the levers that we have to overcome barriers. This will include the action that I am leading to accelerate planning decisions to bring greater clarity to the industry, and the action that we are taking to improve the supply of skills through work on the net-zero skills plan.

For their part, I expect the sector to support our ambitions for local ownership and the development of skills and investment in our communities, including the environment. Working with us in making it clear to people how they will benefit is fundamental to communities accepting the changes that we need to see. I am delighted that I will be speaking at Future Energy Wales next month, where I want to continue discussions with the renewable industry on how we agree our sector deal.

I appreciate the challenges that new infrastructure can bring to communities. We have for some years supported a planned approach to the energy system, one that can respond to local needs as well as the climate and nature crises. With the new National Energy System Operator beginning work on a strategic spatial energy plan, it is essential that local views are built into that planning work. I am pleased that the Welsh Government will be on the committee that will oversee the work to develop that plan. Together with our involvement in the development of a regional energy strategic plan announced by the Office of Gas and Electricity Markets in recent weeks, Wales can be at the forefront of a more planned approach to a prosperous low-carbon future.

As we scale up renewable energy to meet the mission for clean power, it is essential that we support the economy through the transition. Wales has a proud industrial base, and we must ensure that we support new investment in industry in Wales to build a decarbonised and sustainable future.

In the coming weeks, I will be consulting on the Welsh Government’s policy position on how we can use carbon capture and storage technologies, and how we expect hydrogen investment to be taken forward in Wales. Our vision for the future of industry and energy generation in Wales is one in which sustainable industries are retained in Wales and continue to generate high-quality jobs and other benefits for the communities in which they operate. We want industry to substantially reduce its reliance on fossil fuels and its generation of greenhouse gases. We see a role for targeted implementation of carbon capture and storage technologies, where it will accelerate emissions reduction during the transition away from fossil fuels. Our policy for hydrogen will recognise its potential to contribute to decarbonisation. If sustainably manufactured and deployed, hydrogen can provide one of the few ways to decarbonise some sectors of our economy.

Wales has its place in history using our natural resources to power the industrial revolution, but we now enter a new era where the power we need across our economy and wider society supports a new industrial transformation for our economy and our communities.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement.

As I highlighted in my response last week, Wales's economy is broad and diverse, covering a wide range of industries. But as we look to grow our economy and support businesses, we must do so in a way that is both green and responsible. Wales has incredible potential: we are brimming with talent, and we have prime opportunities for renewable energy development, including wind, solar and nuclear. With such vast natural resources at our disposal, we should be seizing these opportunities. We need to say, 'Yes, we welcome investment, and we welcome those who want to build and drive our economy forward for the future.'

Yet when it comes to unlocking this potential, we are far from where we need to be. As I've mentioned previously, let's take planning, for instance. Right now, investors and developers are being held back by countless planning barriers. It is vital that these obstacles, like delays in consenting, planning, grid-capacity issues, skills shortages and supply-chain readiness are addressed swiftly. So, can I ask, Cabinet Secretary, what are the Government's plans to tackle these barriers, and how are you planning on working with the UK Government, which was a theme throughout your statement, on some of the reserved matters, so that investors can have the confidence they need to invest in Wales? Because this is where stakeholder engagement is key. So, I was wondering if you could tell us what engagement you are currently having with investors and businesses, to ensure their voices are heard when critical policy decisions are made.

You mentioned the future of carbon capture. Can I ensure that the shipping of carbon capture is included in any Welsh Government future policy decisions? Given the opportunities for the shipping of carbon dioxide from south-west Wales, for example, and the south Wales industrial cluster, a pipeline of carbon dioxide carbon capture is not the only way that decarbonisation can be achieved.

But even if we remove all these barriers that I've mentioned tomorrow, we'd still need skills. We all want to see more investment in skills, training and apprenticeships, not just to grow the economy, but to create jobs and ensure our young people can build for their futures here in Wales, in industries that truly make a difference and matter. Built environment professionals across Wales are crying out for candidates with sustainability skills, yet they struggle to find trained talent. New research from the University College of Estate Management shows that 90 per cent of businesses report a shortage of these essential skills, which isn’t good enough. And when the Welsh Government chooses to cut funding to training providers by 24 per cent, it doesn’t seem to add up. So, I was just asking, Cabinet Secretary, if you have considered the funding cut to colleges and training providers and skills hubs, so that these skills can be developed and the future workforce can be unleashed.

The potential of renewable energy, coupled with the training of our young people, could be transformative, not just for our green economy but for the wider supply chain too. From local amenities to the provision of parts and services, the knock-on benefits would be substantial, yet there are concerns from the small business sector especially, the backbone of the Welsh economy here, that they could be left behind in this transition. So, how is the Welsh Government ensuring that small businesses can fully participate in the green transition supply chain? You talk about pulling levers, whether through skills and training, research and development or to access finance, again, I urge you, please let’s look at tearing down these barriers to unleash that potential.

Only yesterday, a blackout warning was issued as the wind stopped blowing—ironic in Wales, but the wind stopped blowing in the UK—and the need for baseload capacity in our grid system was highlighted. One area that was omitted from your statement was that around nuclear power. This is essential for providing that much needed stability and baseload for our energy supply. Sites like Wylfa and Trawsfynydd are ripe for development; they’re crying out for development, particularly with the arrival of new technologies such as SMR, small modular reactors. In response to a written question, it was stated that you’d not yet met with the UK Government to specifically discuss nuclear energy. So, do you have any plans to talk to the UK Government on this crucial issue and the opportunities that it brings as well? Wylfa and Trawsfynydd should tick all of the boxes; they offer low-carbon, secure energy and the potential for high-quality, well-paid jobs in construction, engineering and maintenance, and this is an opportunity that needs to be seized.

Wales can and should have a thriving green economy. We can power it through renewable energy and we can staff it with home-grown talent: engineers, electricians, plumbers, welders, apprentices and many, many more. So, in light of your statement, Cabinet Secretary, can I urge you once more? The theme of my response is to tear down the barriers, speed up the planning, invest in training the green workforce for the future, and help unleash Wales’s exciting green future. Diolch, Llywydd.

Thank you very much to Sam Kurtz for his contribution this afternoon. If I’m perfectly honest, there’s very little in there that I would disagree with. I think that the positive way in which Sam Kurtz has characterised Wales as being brimming with talent that can contribute to this agenda, and also brimming with opportunity, is definitely the way in which I would also look to characterise this.

I think that we’ve probably identified the same barriers as well, which we will need to look to tear down. Certainly, the grid capacity is one of those areas that I think we share concern about. Although it is the responsibility of the UK Government, we will absolutely be having those discussions. I know the First Minister also managed to have these kinds of discussions with the Prime Minister and others, emphasising the importance of action on the grid. I think the UK Government absolutely does get that. There was a lack of a coherent plan for the grid, I think, until very recently. I think that will need time now to develop.

We of course have our ‘Future Energy Grids for Wales’ report that does show that Wales’s electricity demand might triple by 2050. So, Wales’s grid improvements are going to be absolutely essential if we’re to have an energy system that is fit for the future. And of course we’ve convened the independent advisory group to build on the understanding that we have and to help us identify the approaches to delivering electricity transformation infrastructure for the future as well. So, I think that is a shared priority that we absolutely have.

Then, in terms of planning, speeding up the time it takes for decisions to be made is an absolutely top priority. It’s something the First Minister has identified as one of her key priorities and she’s asked me to look at a range of activities that we could bring forward.

We are aware that one of the real challenges is workforce in this sector. In the times of austerity, we've seen planning departments in local government stripped back, unfortunately, and there's also competition for those skilled people as well. They often are trained and begin their careers in the public sector but then find important jobs in the private sector. Those skills are very valuable. I'm doing a piece of work looking at how we could expand and support the skills base in future, training more people but also keeping them within the public sector. 

The pipeline opportunities will be really important for those small businesses that were referenced. I did have the opportunity to meet with the Federation of Small Businesses just yesterday, and we had the chance to talk about opportunities in the pipeline there. And of course, speaking of pipelines, I met with the Welsh construction forum, and they were saying that visibility of the pipeline of opportunities within the renewables sector but also more widely is also really important to them. Again, that's a piece of work that we're looking at in terms of how we can better improve the visibility of what will be coming down the line. 

In terms of nuclear, of course, the policy does sit with the UK Government, but we do believe that nuclear power should be considered as part of achieving net-zero ambitions to address the climate change emergency, and that regions and local communities that host such low-carbon infrastructure should secure the appropriate benefits as a result of that. We do support the use of the current licensed sites, Trawsfynydd and Wylfa, which you mentioned, to help achieve such ambitions. We do think that any future proposals for nuclear energy generation would be prioritised for those existing sites and, of course, even beyond that they would have to ensure maximum economic benefit for local communities and regions. And, of course, we're committed to maintaining the nuclear skills base as well, which also supports the wider scientific and medical applications of nuclear technologies as well. 

As I said, I'll be bringing forward a policy statement on carbon capture and storage, but I'm very interested in the non-pipeline issues that have been identified as well. I know that's particularly important in Pembrokeshire. I think there's so much, actually, that we can work across parties on on this agenda. We've already, I think, identified what the problems are together, but I'm very keen to work across parties on the solutions as well. 

I welcome the statement, but I know that Plaid Cymru aren't under any illusions that history is at risk of repeating itself here. Wales is, once again, being cast in the role of resource provider. Wind, wave, land and sea bed are exploited while the financial gains and innovation returns are largely captured by external actors. There's no question about the transformative potential of our natural resources and capacity to lead in green economic growth—on this, I think, we are all agreed—but simply the Welsh economy does not retain enough income from renewable energy generation. There's almost no Welsh capital ownership in the sector, resulting in the capture of a large share of the wealth generated from Welsh resources by mobile, non-local actors. And Wales's energy sector sees key facilities owned by French and German multinationals, and equity ownership by European Governments alongside British entities.

The extent to which Wales benefits economically from its renewable energy resources will largely depend on constitutional and regulatory frameworks, ownership structures and the availability of local skills and capacity. This brings me to one of the central challenges facing Wales's green energy ambitions, which is a lack of devolved power over, frankly, those areas of energy policy that would have the biggest impact on shaping our economic fortunes in this area.

The Cabinet Secretary has said that she is encouraged that the UK Government has set a new direction for energy policy, but it's still very much business as usual, isn't it? Wales remains limited by UK Government control over key aspects of energy regulation, large-scale project planning and infrastructure. While the Welsh Government has control over projects up to 350 MW, most larger renewable energy projects remain outside of Welsh control. So, does the Cabinet Secretary agree that, without the further devolution of energy powers, including over planning for major infrastructure and grid connectivity, Wales cannot actually achieve the renewable energy targets it has set itself?

Ownership and control of Wales's natural resources, including offshore wind, is crucial for ensuring that the benefits of renewable energy are reinvested into Welsh communities, and I welcome the Minister's focus on that. The Cabinet Secretary mentioned the importance of working in partnership to deliver prosperity across Wales, but I would resist the notion that energy is an area in which this is evidenced.

The Welsh Government has repeatedly stated its commitment to devolution of the Crown Estate, yet there has been little concrete action, and we have seen, haven't we, this UK Government roundly reject such a proposal. Most recently, Lord Livermore, the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, made it clear that the UK Government has no intention of devolving the Crown Estate to Wales, despite Welsh Labour's support for such a move, and, to be fair, an impassioned speech in the House of Lords from Peter Hain, a former Labour Secretary of State for Wales, no less. So, what steps is the Cabinet Secretary taking to ensure the control of the Crown Estate is devolved to Wales? Did any discussions take place to this end during last week's meeting of the Council of the Nations and Regions?

Finally, I'd like to turn to the work of Ynni Cymru. The recent announcement surrounding the Crown Estate's partnership with Great British Energy has done little to allay concerns around the extractive framework within which energy policy currently operates. The Welsh Government's focus must remain on building a Welsh energy system that not only contributes to national and global energy needs, but ensures that the benefits of wealth and lower energy bills are felt within Welsh communities. Therefore, how will Ynni Cymru's efforts to develop community-owned energy be protected from being overshadowed by larger centrally managed projects?  

I'm very grateful for the contributions there. I think that they do come from a similar starting point in the sense that we need to extract the absolute maximum benefit for Wales and also for the communities that host energy projects.

I think the work that we've been doing to establish Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru is an absolutely key example of the way in which we want to increase the value to Wales of the renewable energy project development system. A key objective is to generate that greater value for Wales, but also to accelerate the realisation of our net-zero ambitions by developing at least 250 MW of renewable energy generation capacity by 2030, and an additional 750 MW of capacity by 2040, making a target of 1 GW of capacity. Of course, that will be onshore wind projects, given the nature of the woodland estate, which is where we are focusing our attentions. 

I can update colleagues that the company was registered with Companies House in October and, to date, 10 of the proposed 13 members of staff are in post. The independent board meets monthly; it's been doing so since May 2024. With this support, the company will respond to the remit letter that they've had with a business plan setting out the next actions. I think that Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru gives us an opportunity to think again and afresh about how we deal with the important issue of community benefits in Wales, and set a benchmark, really, for the industry in that particular sense. 

We do, obviously, have the policy in terms of retaining the economic value contributing to prosperity through our local ownership of energy generation policy, which was established in 2020, and that sits alongside our targets for locally owned generation. But, obviously, that then is given effect through our 'Planning Policy Wales' document, which recognises that there are real opportunities to achieve local benefits through renewable energy across Wales. We do provide guidance to local ownership, along with a toolkit so support communities and developers through the process as well. So, I think that we do have some good examples of things that are taking place, but there's definitely more to do and Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru provides us, I think, with an opportunity to show what could be done. 

In terms of Ynni Cymru, we've been supporting local community energy for 15 years now, but we've been working to see how we could better support and scale community energy in Wales. The work to date on Ynni Cymru is focused on evolving smart local energy systems. On 3 September, we launched a £10 million grant scheme for smart local energy systems across Wales, and that grant scheme will be pivotal in our efforts to decarbonise our energy supply and ensure the benefits are felt within our communities. Through deploying those kinds of projects right across Wales, we will get some really invaluable insights into the scale of the benefits that can be secured for our communities. So, I don't think it's either/or in terms of those large-scale developments and also supporting local projects. I think that we absolutely have to do both, and I think that we are, through both Trydan and Ynni Cymru, providing those opportunities to do both of those things.

On the Crown Estate, the Welsh Government hasn't changed its position. I think the First Minister has been really clear on the areas where the Welsh Government is very focused on the the views that we've expressed previously. We haven't changed those, and we wouldn't change those because there's been a change of UK Government. We are supportive of the powers that are proposed for the Crown Estate that are contained within the Bill that has been laid in the UK Parliament—that was done before recess—and we are hopeful that these additional powers will increase the much-needed growth of offshore wind in Wales. But the current settlement that we have does limit our ability to deliver those energy projects in a way that reflects our policy priorities and the needs of future generations. So, it's been our long-standing position that the Crown Estate should be devolved to Wales, as it is in Scotland, and that position hasn't changed.

I'm concerned about fossil fuel companies greenwashing, and would like to have seen public investment in the national grid rather than a massive carbon dioxide pipeline, which the corporations could have actually funded themselves. There's no local benefit, and I'd really like to see investment in funding for insulation, retrofitting of solar, and all those things that help bring energy bills down for everybody.

Blue hydrogen actually creates 20 per cent more carbon dioxide than actually using the gas direct, and shipping carbon dioxide will create more carbon dioxide, so it should be part of that calculation. Creating green hydrogen uses a lot of electricity, so direct use is often better. Renewables need to connect to the grid. A large solar farm on the border at Bretton will be unable to access the national grid until 2038, so direct feed needs to be encouraged as part of the planning process. I know that with new housing now, they're starting to use battery storage for retrofit of solar.

I welcome investment in our local communities. They need to see the benefit from community projects and other big projects. So, Cabinet Secretary, what plans are there to invest in the grid, and what form will the consultation on carbon capture, utilisation and storage take? Because I really wish that today would've been a debate rather than just statements. It's quite infuriating when you have five-minute statements and I only get to speak for one minute, which I've gone over on already. Sorry.

I'm grateful to the Member for those comments, particularly the ones about improving the community benefits. We had some really good examples of things that could be considered, and I think that those will all be part of our discussions with the renewables industry in respect of the sector deal.

I mentioned the grid in response to a previous contribution. We've set up the advisory group, which I mentioned, and that will agree principles for the most appropriate solutions for energy infrastructure in Wales, and then it will look to create a public evidence base to support those principles. That work is ongoing at the moment, but overall, of course, the responsibility for the grid does lie with the UK Government. But we've been absolutely clear that the evidence is here, that it needs greater investment here in Wales, especially if we're to meet our overall longer term ambitions, both for the economy but also for energy as well. So, I think discussions can be had, certainly in the context of that sector deal, which I mentioned.

In terms of hydrogen and the carbon capture, utilisation and storage issue, at the moment, we are working through the detail of what a statement might look like, and then, of course, that will be out for public consultation in the usual way. We do, though, think that hydrogen has the potential for decarbonising much of the energy system, particularly making north Wales a clean energy leader. The north Wales growth deal I know is looking to kick-start the hydrogen economy in north Wales by allocating £15 million from the low-carbon energy programme to the north-east Wales hydrogen hub. To date, we've supported the programme with some funding through the ultra-low emission vehicle transformation fund, and Ambition North Wales I know will invite a second hydrogen project to join the growth deal, subject to agreeing a memorandum of understanding. But, as I say, we are currently working up a statement so we can be very clear on what the policy is going ahead, and it will be subject then to consultation in the normal way, and likewise for carbon capture utilisation and storage. I know there are varying views on this, and I do think that the consultation will be an opportunity for people to have their say.

Cabinet Secretary, as you'll be aware, the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee is undertaking an inquiry into the green economy, and one of the issues that has been raised is the importance of public-private partnerships, and I believe that more needs to be done to develop these partnerships in order to help decarbonise the economy. Now, the committee has also looked at how we can make the most of public sector investment, and stakeholders told us that the Welsh Government should prioritise investment that leverages private sector funding. We have an opportunity here in Wales to be a global leader in the field of green and renewable energy, and it's crucial that all levers are being used to develop this industry. Therefore, following on from today's statement, I'd be grateful if you could tell us a bit more about how the Welsh Government is developing public-private partnerships to drive renewable energy investment, and can you also tell us how you're prioritising investment in the net-zero transition, and doing so in a way that will encourage and leverage private sector funding in the future?

I think that this is a really important point, and I think one that is reflected, perhaps, best through the work that we've been doing on our city and growth deals, which are there to ensure that public investment is put in, but then that does—sorry, public sector investment is put in, and then that does leverage in then gains from the private sector. So, I think that's a really good model, really, as to where we can see that kind of investment being developed, and it is an approach that we've sought to support. That said, there is a really good case as well for the Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru model, where we do own and we develop these projects and the benefits then do come back to Wales; they're retained in the community as well. So, I think that community benefits are really, really important, but then we have to acknowledge as well the role of the private sector in terms of jobs, supporting our skills ambitions through the apprentices they take on, and creating wealth in local economies as well.

Thank you for the statement. I agree with the Minister, of course, on the need to build an exciting new green economy for the future, but I want to refer to plans to develop huge solar farms in my constituency and to argue that this isn't the solution at all, if we do want to create jobs in the renewable energy sector. I encourage my constituents to respond by tomorrow's deadline to the planning consultation by Pedwar to ensure that our community has its voice heard. But, look, there is so much room for solar in the mix: on the roofs of every building, on the side of roads, in smaller pockets—many smaller pockets—of solar in my constituency, but covering thousands of acres of good agricultural land in Anglesey gives us the worst in terms of a loss of food production capacity, in terms of the visual impact, in terms of losing jobs in agriculture—there are no jobs created here—and we do have to think far more strategically. We talk about the capacity to produce energy off the Welsh coast: that's where the jobs are; that's where the supply chain is to be found and developed in coming years. Focus on that, because this kind of solar plan is extractive, it withdraws profit from our communities, it creates negative impacts and fails to bring any local benefits. So, would the Minister agree with me that solar isn't the solution in terms of that economic element, and that we need to look at things that are far more innovative?

I would say that solar is part of the answer in terms of the mix of renewable energy that we will require as we move towards net zero. Clearly, I can't comment on the particular schemes that have been referred to, but I will say, though, that asking constituents to have their say when they have the opportunity through the planning process is really important. So, whenever there are planning applications in respect of energy proposals, then, of course, communities should be involved, they should be informed, they should be encouraged to respond to those consultations.

In terms of the overall policy, though, of course, we've got 'Future Wales: The National Plan 2040', and that does ensure that planning applications for developments of national significance are rigorously assessed so that communities, designated areas and landscapes and protected habitats and species are protected from unacceptable adverse impact, and it also requires the consideration of cumulative impact as well of existing and consented schemes. So, clearly, I can't say any more about that particular project, but I do think solar has its role as part of an energy mix.

Four quick questions. How many public buildings have solar tiles on their south-facing roofs, and what's your strategy for increasing that number, given that all public buildings are supposed to be net zero by 2030? When will the framework enshrined by the Infrastructure (Wales) Act 2024 become mandatory so that everybody's clear that large-scale proposals will be normally dealt with within 12 months? You talk about taking communities with us on these developments in their area. If local communities feel that they directly benefit from the wind or solar energy being generated in their community reducing their energy bills, that requires them to be locally owned, part of the project to be locally owned. So, I wondered how much progress you're making on that, because it is a very difficult thing that we haven't been very successful with up until now. That seems to me absolutely crucial, and that link has yet to be made. And, fourthly, how can Welsh Government help communities be clearer that the community funds being generated aren't just about improving playing fields or village halls, important though that is, but it really is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to make sustainable communities that are much more resilient as a result of the significant investment that can be invested in their infrastructure generally?

I'm very grateful for the questions. On the specific one in terms of how many public sector buildings have solar tiles on the roof, I don't have that answer, but I will try and get that to you. But I do think that there is a role for Ynni Cymru, particularly, in terms of supporting projects such as that. So, we saw the recent announcement of the new £10 million fund, for example, which might be able to support the increased number. We've got a fantastic example in Morriston—Mike Hedges is sitting next to you. We've got Morriston Hospital with its solar energy, which is absolutely fantastic in terms of supporting all of the needs of the hospital. So, that's just one really, really good example, and we would like to see many more of those.

In terms of the infrastructure Act, I've recently launched a consultation now, which looks at the entire process of the new consenting system. I think that will be open for the usual eight weeks, or it might even be longer—so, keen to get responses back on that. And after that then I'll be able to make a wider statement in terms of the next steps. So, that final consultation paper was issued on 19 September, outlining the whole process. And again, I'm keen to hear colleagues' views on that and also, of course, the views of the sector.

And I think the point about community benefits being not just about refurbishing village halls; there's only so many times that you can do that—. Actually, there can be a really important role for community benefits in things such as supporting skills, for example, supporting vulnerable people within the community—the list of things that can be done is endless. We've got the future Wales energy conference in just a couple of weeks, and I think that's an opportunity for us to really highlight and showcase some of the more innovative ways in which community benefits are being delivered across Wales. Important though community halls are, actually, you can only do that so many times.

Cabinet Secretary, you can't possibly know of all the innovations around the country, because many of us have the opportunity of visiting them and being aware of them, and one that I would like to talk about this afternoon, and it may be that other colleagues want to join me in that as well, is cable ploughing. Cable ploughing is something that we can look at. It's a new innovative, green programme to actually avoid the use of pylons. There's a company in Carmarthenshire, who I know—well, I'm pretty sure I know—would welcome a visit from you, who have actually put cables underground. They've already done it in Eryri. It's happened in the Cotswolds, and it happens on National Trust land. This avoids pylons. As we move to a place where we obviously need a better infrastructure in order to power our country and, hopefully, keep the energy and the benefits here in Wales, we also need to think about our environment, and, for those of us in mid and west Wales, we're faced with a particular challenge around pylons being erected in order to fulfil that. So, I would like to invite you, on behalf of a number of parties here in the Siambr, to come and visit the company in Pencader and see exactly what they're doing. I think it will take your breath away as to what they are doing. So, I'm really hoping that you can listen and take on board some of the ideas and suggestions from this afternoon, and we can perhaps be in touch with your office in order to arrange a visit. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you very much for that contribution. Yes, I'm very interested in the work of the business in Pencader that you've referred to, because our national policy on planning does set out that our preferred position on new power lines is that, where possible, they should be laid underground, although we do accept that there has to be a balanced view against costs that could render otherwise acceptable projects unviable. But we do expect to see all planning applications abiding by that policy, and where undergrounding of lines isn't possible or applicable then proactive engagement with energy companies and the public to mitigate the visual impact of any potential new transmission lines should take place. But I'm very interested in the technology that you've described, and I'm keen to find out more.

The narrative that we hear more and more often from the UK Government is that—in this context in terms of the green economy—we have to build on a large scale, very swiftly, at a low cost, regardless of any other considerations, and I don't think that's the only way forward, as Rhun ap Iorwerth suggested. For example, over the past few days, the governor, Tim Walz, the vice-presidential candidate in the US, has suggested undergrounding the entire grid in the United States, because he thinks, in terms of the long term, because it's more dependable for you to do that, that's the sensible option.

So, there's more than one solution here, and Wales needs to find its own way forward, as Jane Dodds suggested. So, can we have an update from you on the work being done by the ministerial advisory group on the future of the grid in Wales, because the narrative there, if I may say so, with regard to the remit that you've set, is different? It talks about principles; not getting rid of the planning system—that's the kind of narrative we're hearing from England at the moment—but setting clear principles in terms of the kind of grid that we want to create and investing for the long term in the best way, not just following policies of covering the whole of Wales and the whole of the UK with solar farms and with pylons.

I'm grateful for the contribution, but also need to recognise that there is an important part to play for those large-scale developments. So, the work around floating offshore wind, for example, could be really, really exciting in the Celtic sea. That could be an absolute game changer in terms of opportunities in the area. But, at the same time, we've talked in the statement about Morriston Hospital and the work that they're doing in terms of their solar panels as well to meet all of their energy needs. So, there is absolutely, I think, a need for both those large projects that we are going to need, but also the smaller local ones as well, and we're trying to support both of them.

In terms of the independent advisory group, I will provide an update when I can on the work of the group. I can say, though, that they're expected currently to provide draft recommendations in early 2025, but if there is something to report before that point, I will be very keen to do so.

I'm grateful to you, Presiding Officer, and I'm grateful to you, Minister, for the statement this afternoon. I very much agree with the vision that the Welsh Government is outlining in terms of its future development of the green economy and green energy. I hope that the Minister is successful in pursuing the devolution of the Crown Estate. Without devolution of the Crown Estate and the associated planning regulations, it appears to me that it's very difficult for the Welsh Government to achieve any of its ambitions in this field. I would suggest that this is absolutely critical to the future of the overall policy. At the same time, an emphasis on nuclear is important to ensure that we are able to provide baseload supply for our needs.

But also, it is important to maintain public support and to ensure that the public support the means by which we are taking this forward, and that means that everybody must feel that they're being treated equitably. I represent one of the smallest constituencies in this place in terms of its area, but we have applications for windfarms on every one of our valleys. It is not fair that people in Blaenau Gwent shoulder a greater responsibility for the Welsh Government meeting its objectives than perhaps constituencies elsewhere. It is critical, I believe, that we make this move from the old fossil fuel based economy to a renewable and nuclear based economy, but that has to happen with equity, so that everybody feels that they're equally sharing the responsibility for delivering on this ambition and vision.

I'm very grateful for those comments as well, and just to reiterate on the Crown Estate that I think that we are very much in the same place, and actually the Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales also recommended that it should be devolved to the Welsh Government. So, we are committed to continuing to pursue that issue with the UK Government. The management of the Crown assets generates significant revenue to the Exchequer, so devolution of the Crown Estate would actually allow us to better align those revenues with Welsh Government's priorities for our own citizens. So, as I say, this is something that we will absolutely continue to raise with the UK Government.

I'm pleased to hear the welcome for the approach on nuclear; again, it's about having that mix of energy for the future. But I think the points that have been made really are around that kind of just transition, aren't they, in terms of ensuring that people understand the journey that we're on, accept the journey that we're on, but also benefit from the journey that we're on. And I think that the point made about where those particular projects come forward, they shouldn't be seen in isolation; actually, they need to be seen in the context of what else is happening around that area as well, and I think that's an important consideration.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

The next item will be a statement by the Minister for Further and Higher Education on tertiary education. I call on the Minister, therefore, to make that statement. Vikki Howells.

Diolch, Llywydd. I am delighted and honoured to be standing here among you as the new Minister for Further and Higher Education. This role is a perfect complement to my own background as a secondary school teacher and an assistant head of sixth form, as well as a mentor to those just starting out in the teaching profession. My experiences have given me a depth of understanding of the successes and challenges encountered by learners and practitioners, and I will bring to this role both empathy and a determination to listen.

The tertiary education agenda is one about which I am truly passionate, and I want to share my initial focuses with you today. I am sure we are all well aware of the famous three Rs of education, but the main driving force of my role, as I interpret it, is the three Cs: collaboration, co-operation and community. 

Collaboration is part of the long-term Welsh Government vision for tertiary education, and this is embodied in the Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Act 2022, bringing five post-16 education sectors into closer dialogue with each other. This will reduce unnecessary competition and duplication, increase parity of esteem between academic and vocational routes, make transitions between learning pathways smoother, and increase the visibility of options for post-16 learners. The stories of the 2024 Inspire! Adult Learning Award winners demonstrate the importance for learners to understand that there are educational opportunities that can work for them and their families at every moment of their lives, regardless of age, background or personal circumstances.

Tertiary education has an intrinsic value: it is the foundation and springboard into the rest of learners' lives. This requires the second of my Cs: co-operation across Government to ensure that education can act as a key lever in our Government’s agenda and deliver on the Prif Weinidog’s priorities of boosting skills, iechyd da and opportunities for all. It is a linchpin in our mission towards achieving economic growth and prosperity, and towards a fairer and more inclusive society. We know the significant impact that participation in education can have on a learner’s future job security, good physical and mental health and well-being. We also know that our tertiary institutions do not provide just education and research; they're also job creators with spillover benefits for local businesses and regions.

I look forward to working alongside the Cabinet Secretary for Education, the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership and all my Cabinet colleagues to realise our Government priorities about the skills and opportunities needed for the workforce of tomorrow. I had the privilege of attending the launch event for Universities Wales's Transforming Lives campaign earlier this month. This is a fantastic example of how broadening access to higher education can give learners the chance to explore careers that might otherwise have seemed beyond their reach.

I also relish the prospect of working closely with Medr, the new Commission for Tertiary Education and Research. Medr’s operational date of 1 August this year saw a major step forward towards our vision for a more coherent tertiary sector in Wales, with a national steward that has the principles of collaboration and inclusion at its heart. Earlier this year, the Welsh Government issued its statement of strategic priorities for Medr. These priorities place the tertiary system within a wider social context, one that sees the interdependence of economy and education, one that champions equality and widens participation, and one that gives learners the leading role in their own educational journeys. These are priorities not just for Medr, but for the sector at large, an ambitious challenge that will define the long-term success of tertiary education in Wales.

Medr has now published its draft strategic plan in response to the Government priorities. It is currently open for consultation until 25 October, and I would strongly encourage all stakeholders to take this opportunity to respond. And I have especially welcomed seeing Medr’s emphasis on capturing learner voices as part of this consultation.

This brings me to the third of my three Cs: community. To me, this means a community of learners, practitioners and providers working together in the best interests of learners, and enabled by Government. This was the principle behind the student governors in further education event I attended in Cardiff this month. There, I met learners who have volunteered to sit on the governing bodies of their respective institutions. They will provide the crucial element of learner voice and experience and help to guide the futures of their colleges. I was, as always, immensely proud to see our young people demonstrate their leadership capacities and ownership of their education.

I've recently started a series of visits to providers across the tertiary system and around Wales. I've really enjoyed coming together with learners and their teachers and tutors face to face, and I look forward to continuing to do this over the next few months. These visits will help me to better comprehend learners' choices, the barriers they face, and celebrate their achievements. I hope to encounter a spirit of willingness from all providers to get involved in reshaping and co-designing the post-16 educational landscape in Wales. And I hope to see a commitment to continuous improvement and ambitious goals for the future.

I also want to use this time to consider how best to engage with the core group of people who have not participated in post-16 education and training. Just as we know there is a strong link between attendance and attainment for younger pupils, the same is true for our post-16 cohorts. We want to find ways to give voice to all learners, not just those who are the most enthusiastic and confident. We know that post-16 participation is a significant challenge for the sector at the moment, and I am committed to gathering as much information as possible to inform how the Welsh Government and Medr can respond in my statement later this term. One potential way forward will be through Medr’s production of a learner engagement code. This will enshrine the importance of giving learners a say in the decisions that will affect them during the course of their education—something that Welsh institutions have already commenced with great success.

Our vision is for a coherent and integrated sector, centred around learner well-being and support. We need a tertiary education system that is powered by the ambitions, attainment and aspirations of learners, and where our providers and practitioners combine their knowledge and experience with an awareness of their wider social contexts. This will lead to a more equal and dynamic Wales.

Can I congratulate you, Minister, on your new role? Many congratulations. I know that it's a sector, as you mentioned in your statement, that you feel passionate about and I think it's a passion that we share on these benches, as well, and I'm really looking forward to working with you.

I think it's important to think about the wider picture of where we are with HE and FE here in Wales, because it is quite a challenging picture, I think. We've seen, this year, a reduction in the number of young people going to university; it's at a 15-year low. According to the Universities and Colleges Admissions Service, 33 per cent of 18-year-olds in Wales applied to go to university this year, compared to 41.9 per cent in the UK as a whole. The chair of Universities Wales, Paul Boyle, said that it was the biggest gap that we've known in modern history, and asked the Welsh Government to review the reasons behind that. So, what is your response to that ask? Will the Welsh Government be commissioning a review? Because that difference from 42 to 33—9 per cent almost—is quite stark and really needs to be looked at.

Universities themselves have also been really open about the financial challenges that a number of them face. So, I guess the question is: with a new Minister in post, what is the grand plan from the Welsh Government here? What does the future of our university sector in Wales look like, in your view? And how is the Welsh Government working with universities to deliver that sustainable future that we talked about at the beginning?

Equally as worryingly, we've also seen a 1 per cent drop in people pursuing apprenticeships in quarter 2 of 2023-24, versus the same quarter in the previous year. So, it is worrying to see fewer and fewer people choosing both the university route and the apprenticeship route as well. So, there are some worrying statistics there, and a worrying picture that I hope the Welsh Government, but also we stand ready to work with you to get to the bottom of as well, because we know the power of this sector and its ability to change lives and build futures for some young people in Wales.

You talked about the three Cs in your statement: collaboration, co-operation and community? Yes, sorry, I should've written them down. But it's collaboration in particular that I wanted to focus on. When I speak to HE and FE providers in Wales, they actually really want to collaborate and they see that as an important part of the development of the offer that they can make, but sometimes, if you like, the administration can get in the way. Quite a lot of difficult joins in the margins can get in the way, and this is where I think Government has the power to be able to help this along.

So, if I give you an example, some of the technical qualifications that have been worked on by the Welsh Government in terms of vocational certificates of secondary education and other qualifications, where, clearly, for example, a college is better placed to provide both the technical learning and the physical equipment to teach some technical courses, but at the moment, it is unclear who and exactly how some of these qualifications will be provided in terms of the learning. So, it clearly requires greater collaboration between colleges and schools, for example. So, how are you working to bridge those gaps?

There's also the question of collaboration, I think, across Government. Education, obviously, is in one department and I'm also glad to see the Minister here who sits in the economy department, which is responsible for apprenticeships and skills as well. How are you making sure that things aren't lost, if you like, in the joins between those two departments?

Finally, I just wanted to touch on Medr, as you mentioned Medr as well. You mentioned Medr's five priorities. If I'm honest, they were very broad and lacked deliverables and targets. Is it your intention that Medr will work to targets and work to deliverables, so that we know whether the things that Medr says it wants to achieve are successful in the future? I just also wanted, finally on Medr, to raise with you the number of unfilled vacancies in senior roles still at Medr, despite the fact that we have had a long run-up, if you like, in the period of time to establish Medr. It's clear that there are a number of senior roles that are still not filled in Medr. From speaking to people who have interfaced with Medr up to this point, there seems to be some lack of clarity on exactly what its objectives are and exactly what its targets are, and I fear that it may be because of those unfilled senior posts. So, could you provide an update on your understanding of the progress towards filling those roles, and also your expectations of Medr, going forward? 

Thank you very much, Tom, for your warm welcome and for your series of questions as well. If we start with HE participation, we know that that is an area that we are concerned about and we need to improve here in Wales if we are going to get the population with the skill set that we need for the workforce of today and for tomorrow.

That is something that I have tasked my officials with gathering more data on. Clearly, we know that, here in Wales, we have got the most generous package of undergraduate maintenance support. We have got the highest levels of non-repayable grant support, and that is directly targeted at those students from households with the lowest incomes. So, there is a lot of work that has already been done that I intend to build on to ensure that we have that support to make HE open and accessible to all young people and mature students in Wales. But that is something that I will be continuing to work on.

You raised, of course, the issue of the financial challenges in the HE sector, which is an issue not just in Wales but across the UK, and even internationally. And although we know that this is a difficult time, and that the sector needs to find ways to reduce costs, we don’t believe that there is any Welsh institution that is at risk of failure.

I think that it is important to note that there are multiple income streams for higher education that far outweigh direct Government funding. Welsh Government funding is around 10 per cent of overall HE funding. So, there are a lot of factors there that are creating those financial pressures for the sector, which are outside of the Welsh Government’s control. Medr will be responsible for monitoring any immediate financial risks to the HE sector, but it’s important to note as well that universities are autonomous bodies, so they will be taking their own decisions, albeit with an input and a steer from myself and from Medr.

Apprenticeships, of course, are a really important part of our post-16 learning offer, and they sit with the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership. But I have already had some really constructive early meetings with the Minister, and we intend to carry on working in that spirit together.

In terms of collaboration between HE and FE and schools, this is something that is really important to me, and I have started, as I said in my statement, a series of visits across Wales. The first visit that I embarked on was to the University of South Wales, purely because of its excellent track record with its strategic partnership of collaborating with FE colleges in the region. There was lots that I learned there about how well that works, particularly in the conversations that I had with students there. I will be looking, in my visits to other universities, to see what work they are doing and where there are elements of best practice that can be shared out.

In terms of Medr, it is out to consultation at the moment on its draft strategic plan. So, if you have views, then I would encourage you, like all stakeholders, to put those views forward. I’m aware that there are some posts that are yet to be filled in Medr; I wouldn't describe those as senior posts. A lot of posts have already been filled, and certainly I've met with the CEO and the chair of Medr. I will be meeting with the board again tomorrow.

I don't recognise what you say there about a lack of clarity in their objectives. From the conversations I've had with them, they are very clear on their objectives, and bringing together those sectors that they will have oversight of, which are HE, FE, adult community learning, work-based learning, apprenticeships and school sixth forms. I really think that this is something to celebrate, because we are the first country in the UK to have one body to bring together the funding, planning and regulation of all post-16 education and research. So, it's a fantastic opportunity for Wales to lead the rest of the UK.

Thank you very much to the Minister for her statement. May I too congratulate her on her recent appointment? We've had an opportunity in this Siambr recently to give a great deal of attention to statutory education, and as someone in a former life who worked in the field of post-16 education and lifelong learning, I welcome the focus today on the post-16 sector.

On the statement—I'll return to some specific points in the statement itself—what was most noticeable was something that wasn't contained in the statement, which was what Tom referred to, and that's the funding crisis facing our universities here in Wales. I believe, if the Government doesn't take urgent action, we could lose these very special institutions—a number of them—that do provide opportunities for very high-level learning to enable our young people to achieve their ambitions in life. There was a reference in your statement that there will be a further statement later on on higher education, but the truth is that that could be far too late for some of our universities. 

We know from reports that the UK Government is already developing a rescue plan for English universities who are facing—many of them—financial uncertainty. This plan includes £1 billion bail-outs, fee rises, as well as further cuts to courses and staff. Considering the financial hole that faces many of our Welsh universities, thought to be £100 million, the pressure is growing on you as a Government to work with our universities to find solutions that will protect jobs, students and our wider economy.

So, I'm just wondering—I'm trying to tease this out of you, in regard to a number of options that you would want to consider, perhaps—if you can give us a steer of your way of thinking. You could well consider as a Government that you'd want Welsh universities to be eligible for the same UK scheme. Maybe it would prefer to develop its own rescue package; it might be happy for some Welsh unis to go bust or to force mergers upon them. Or it may match any potential fee rise brought forward in England. So, it would be interesting to understand how your thinking is at the moment, because, let's not beat around the bush, Welsh universities face serious challenges, and the clock is ticking. I'll just pose those questions to you on universities.

If I can just turn to Medr. Tom alluded to some concerns that the further education sector isn't perhaps represented well enough in the appointments that have been made—so, I don't know whether you could enlighten us on that and put our minds to rest. And whether you see, in Medr, enough of an expertise and capacity that will reflect all the various sectors equally that Medr is responsible for. So, can we just have an assurance that all those sectors will have equal credence and financial support and expertise within Medr?

Again in the statement you aspire to see better collaboration between schools and FE colleges, HE colleges, apprenticeships and so on, and that is to be welcomed, of course, but we know we've been here before. We've been here before, trying to establish learning pathways between schools and colleges, but we also have to acknowledge that tensions exist between them. In most parts of Wales, you find schools and colleges not working together, not even speaking to each other, and many of those problems arise from the disparate and unfair funding settlement that many believe favours FE colleges, and that investment in facilities and so on is not mirrored in the same level of investment in our schools, particularly in our sixth forms. So, I'm just keen to know, although it looks good on paper as an aspiration, how exactly you're going to relieve these tensions and create a better understanding and collaboration between all of these sectors, putting the learner at the centre of the provision. And—

You will need to come to a question now, Cefin.

Sorry. My final question, then. I hadn't looked up at the clock.

Just in terms of Welsh-medium education, there's no mention made of Welsh-medium education, so just a specific question: how do you intend to increase Welsh-medium provision across all of the sectors, particularly in FE colleges and HE provision? Thank you.

Thank you, Cefin Campbell, for another warm welcome from you in the Chamber, and for your series of questions there. In terms of the FE funding situation, I've already covered much of that in my response to Tom Giffard, but one thing I think is useful to add to that as well is the issue with international student visas. We know that this is a really important funding stream that's used to cross-subsidise other students’ studies, and at the UK level the data from January to September showed that those student visa applications were 16 per cent lower.

This is something that I'm concerned about, something that I've talked to the Cabinet Secretary for Education about, and it's something that I have had detailed discussions with stakeholders about as well. I'm looking for an early meeting with my counterpart Baroness Smith from the UK Government, because obviously this is an area that requires some co-operation and some joint thinking in order to try and relieve that pressure. We know that our international students provide a really valuable cultural and academic dimension to our institutions as well, so I really am very keen to do as much as I can to resolve that.

In terms of Medr, and you talked about the issue there with English universities, it's good to see that you recognise that this is a crisis across the UK. I'm aware that the UK Government has this emergency fund that they're bringing into play. Medr is going to have its own funds to support our institutions here in Wales, and I'm pleased to say it's going to be a more positive kind of fund. It will be called a transformation fund, so it has a positive title and a positive ethos in terms of not just bailing out universities that may be in financial trouble, but working with them to see how they can transform the work that they do, to encourage them to be more financially self-sufficient in these difficult times moving forward.FootnoteLink

You've asked about what work I'll do with the sector to find solutions. I think that's a really important question. It's one of the reasons why I'm going to meet with the board of Medr tomorrow, and also one of the reasons why I've met already with Universities Wales, and, perhaps more importantly than that, am embarking on this tour of all higher education institutions in Wales, because I want to hear from the vice-chancellors themselves, from the students themselves, from the staff, from trade unions, so that I get a full picture to enable me to undertake this role to the very best of my ability. 

And other questions then that you raised there about Medr—again, I don't recognise what you allude to there with there being a lack of expertise and capacity within Medr. I've seen a good cross-section of representation there, and we know that there are other posts that they will be filling as time moves on, and that's not just in their staffing structure—and I should say I'm due to meet with staff of Medr tomorrow as well—but also in their board. Their board, I feel, has a really good cross-section, and that includes students as well; it's really good to see the president of the National Union of Students Wales now sitting on that board to give that learner voice. 

As a former assistant head of sixth form, I do recognise the points you made there about the difficulties between the desire for collaboration across the sector and that tension within the system as well, because our post-16 learners are a really valuable resource. So, it's only natural that there would be competition within the system to attract them. But, as well as that, I'm already seeing some really good practice between schools and further education colleges, and that is something that I want to find out more about and to unpick. I think the recommendations from the Hefin David report are really important for myself, the Cabinet Secretary for Education and the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership to work on there, so that we can ensure those very best transitions post 16. 

And finally, you asked about Welsh-medium education. Absolutely, that is really crucial, and I know that one of the challenges that I face coming into this post is to work to ensure that there is parity of access between Welsh-medium and English-medium education post 16. I've already seen some areas of good practice there, but I'm keen to dig down into that to find out more about how those areas of good practice can be strengthened, and I am due to meet with the Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol soon as well.

I would like to add my voice to those welcoming you to this important role, Minister. One of the organisations I know you will be working closely with is ColegauCymru, and they would like to see Medr take forward a national vocational education and training strategy that would link vocational education and training towards economic and industrial priorities. It would provide a guiding framework for Qualifications Wales awarding bodies and providers, and it would ensure a clear line of democratic accountability within the system, and also articulate the importance of appropriate assessment, moving towards this focus on progression into work with a strong voice for learners and employers, allowing colleges to meet local and national priorities. 

So, I just wonder, Minister, whether you recognise the strength of ColegauCymru's asks, as it were, given this would be putting outcomes at the heart of the system, and include a commitment to build an infrastructure with clear, understandable and flexible vocational pathways? 

I thank John Griffiths for those questions there, and I know, John, that you are a firm champion of the FE sector, having been chair of the cross-party group on FE for many years. Like you, I share great admiration for ColegauCymru. I think, actually, they were the first stakeholder that I met when I came into this role, and they have such tremendous expertise and a passion for the FE sector, and lots of really practical ideas that can be brought forward. So, I will be continuing to have regular meetings with them, and also feeding ideas from the things that they have told me to the Cabinet Secretary for Education, because some of the really exciting things that they talked to me about were in junior apprenticeships for 14 to 16-year-olds, and also, of course, to the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership. So, we've all got a really big investment there with ColegauCymru. And you talked about the linking of vocational training to the skills of the future—absolutely crucial—and I know that there's some really good practice out there in the sector. I'm looking forward to going to see some of that, particularly Pembrokeshire College, with the work that they are doing around net zero. I think I'm probably the third Minister from this Government to raise that in the Chamber and express a desire to want to go and visit them.

That final point you made about progression into work is just so important, isn't it, because that's what, to me, the tertiary education system is all about: it's a lever for the economic prosperity of our nation, which we know is one of our First Minister's primary objectives. So, I'm really proud to be able to have this portfolio and play my own role in that.

May I add my welcome to the Minister in her new post? You will of course be aware that school sixth forms now come under the definition of tertiary education, and are, therefore, part of the responsibilities of Medr. You will also be aware that the number of pupils in school sixth forms has been declining over the past few years and, in some counties, there is no sixth form provision at all in any school, or there's been a major decline in that provision. This is particularly concerning in Welsh-medium schools, which have such an important role to play in terms of the 2050 targets. You mentioned the three Cs; perhaps there's a fourth C in terms of your statement, and that's Cymraeg.

Research published by the Welsh Language Commissioner in November 2023 highlighted differences between learners at school and college in terms of their perception of their level of ability in Welsh, the medium of their education, and their attitudes towards the importance of the Welsh language. So, I’d like to ask, therefore, how the Minister believes that Medr can support our school sixth forms in terms of A-level provision and vocational courses, particularly those in Welsh-medium schools, so that they continue to be sustainable. And what role do you foresee that school sixth forms will have within the Medr governance structure?

Thank you, Heledd Fychan, for your welcome for me and for your questions; they're really important questions around school sixth forms. So, obviously they do come under Medr now; they are part of the tertiary education sector. Responsibility for school sixth forms still sits with the Cabinet Secretary, but it's an area where we really have to work very closely together, and we do work closely together. We have offices next door to each other, and we're in and out of each other's offices all the time, talking about these cross-cutting areas of our portfolio. I think it's really important that we see sixth forms as having a valid and important place within that tapestry of post-16 education, and that we ensure that there is parity between sixth forms and FE as well.

Obviously I recognise the point you make about the importance of Welsh language learning and how that is achieved within school sixth forms. I think of Ysgol Gyfun Gymraeg Rhydywaun in my own constituency as a really good example of that. So, we want to make sure that we hold on to that provision and that it is adequately funded and that it is able not just to survive but to thrive. Diolch.

Can I join in the welcome to you for your appointment and, more importantly—though perhaps you don't agree with it—the creation of the position itself? As someone who worked in the tertiary sector, I'm very pleased that we are having this statement today. I'm going to concentrate on FE and tertiary education.

Tertiary education and FE education gets far less discussion than schools and universities in both the media and in the Senedd, but I believe they are of equal importance. Without tertiary education and FE colleges, we would not have the skilled workers that our economy needs: the bricklayers, the carpenters, the electricians, the hairdressers and the chefs. Tertiary education also gives people a second chance in life, including via access courses. The challenge is getting people, especially 16-year-olds and their parents, to consider tertiary education not as second best but as an equal opportunity. What is the Welsh Government doing to promote tertiary education as equal but different to sixth forms for 16-year-olds, and promote access courses to give adults a second chance to enter higher education and move on to very highly paid jobs?

I'd like to thank Mike Hedges for his warm welcome for me and his questions there. It's lovely to be questioned by a fellow education practitioner, and I count Cefin Campbell in that as well; it's so good to see that there are people here who bring these skills to the Chamber and that real-life experience.

I think, Mike, you make a really important point there that we do need to ensure that our FE colleges are seen as equal but different to our sixth forms, the offer that they provide is embedded in our communities, and to get that parity of esteem between the vocational and the academic is something that we've long talked about in this Chamber, but it's a huge cultural shift, and I like to think that we're part way along that journey, but, working together with the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership, we aim to put our foot on the accelerator and achieve a lot more. So, that cross-government working is absolutely key there, but also, in the visits that I'm doing around Wales, I think that's an opportunity for us and for our Government to shine a spotlight on excellent work in the FE sector, and I know that I'll be able to come back to this Chamber with lots of positive information that I can share to shine that spotlight on the FE sector as well.

You rightly also talk about promoting access courses to give adults a second chance to enter HE. I couldn't agree more with you on that, and one of the first meetings that I held on coming to this portfolio was to meet with the Learning and Work Institute to discuss our adult learning offer, and I'm really pleased that that is a Welsh Government commitment that is ring-fenced financially to protect it. Also, our adult learning in the community programme, which is delivered by the FE sector and local authorities—we provide a range of opportunities there, both informal and community settings, across 14 non-statutory partnerships in Wales. So, there's a lot for us to celebrate, and we see that every year in the Inspire! adult learning awards as well, don't we? So, lots for us to celebrate, but, obviously, always more work to do.

Thank you, Minister. I like the three Cs, and I'm sure that this was entirely intentional, but the three Cs work in Welsh too: cydlafurio, cydweithio and cymuned. But could I be so bold as—? I agree with Heledd Fychan, there is another C missing. On Diwrnod Shwmae Su'mae, Welsh, Cymraeg, is missing from your statement, because the truth is, while there are monolingual Welsh names for some of these colleges, English is the medium of the teaching. Over 99 per cent of the training in colleges in South Wales Central is through the medium of English. If pupils leave Welsh-medium education for these tertiary colleges, English is the medium of the education post 16. I'm sure that you'll remember from your time in the world of education how attractive these colleges are, with wonderful resources and a wide range of courses being offered. So, what are you doing—in collaboration with the Cabinet Secretary for Education, as you said—what are you doing to promote the Welsh-medium sector and to encourage people to stay within the Welsh-medium sector in sixth form, because that's where they receive education and training through the medium of Welsh, not in the sixth-form colleges? Thank you.

Thank you very much, Rhys. I think everybody has given me a warm welcome this afternoon, so I'm very pleased for that and for your emphasis as well on Cymraeg—it is absolutely crucial. I would encourage you to feed your views—and perhaps I should have said that to Heledd Fychan as well—into the consultation that Medr is currently running on its strategic plan. I think it's really important that we get those views into the system really early so that we can continue to strengthen our Welsh language provision. If we're serious about increasing daily use of Welsh, we must ensure that people have the skills and confidence to use Welsh in their workplaces, and so creating more opportunities for apprentices and FE and HE learners to learn and train through Welsh is a priority for this Welsh Government. I know that the Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol's funding has been maintained for 2024-25, which includes an additional £2.825 million, which was previously allocated under the co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru, and reprioritising funding of £3.5 million, linked to the co-operation agreement, enables us to safeguard those core services that support our ambitions for 'Cymraeg 2050'. So, there's good news here, but, obviously, there is still lots more to do.

Finally, Adam Price.

To focus on the third C, community, in three years, we will be celebrating 100 years of further education in Ammanford since the establishment of the technical institute back in 1927. But those celebrations and those plans are under something of a cloud at the moment because of the current intention of Coleg Sir Gâr to close the campus, so there'll be no further education provision in Ammanford. Of course, FE colleges, since 1993 and incorporation, are not accountable to local government, and they're not directly accountable to Welsh Ministers either, but, in this case, these plans are linked to a decision by the Welsh Government on a package of investment. So, could I and other Members who have expressed their opposition to the plans—Cefin Campbell, Joyce Watson, Jane Dodds and others—meet with you, Minister, to discuss an alternative plan that would save the future of FE in Ammanford? Following that, could we, perhaps, discuss undoing that Thatcherite decision back in 1993 and bring the FE colleges back and accountable either to local government or to national Government in Wales?

Thank you, Adam Price, for your contribution there, and I fully recognise the important role that FE provision plays in local communities up and down Wales, both in bringing educational opportunities as close to home for those learners as possible, which is really important, particularly given the difficulty in the funding of learner travel as well, and also, of course, as employers in those communities as well. So, I would be pleased to meet with you and other Members to discuss the issue with Coleg Sir Gâr in more detail.

I thank the Minister.

The next item will be item 6. This is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language on Welsh language communities, and, to make that statement, the Cabinet Secretary, Mark Drakeford.

Well, Llywydd, shwmae, su'mae.

Shwmae.

Thank you very much for the opportunity to make a statement to the Senedd this afternoon to update Members on the work that has been done over the past few months, and to set out my vision for the coming months too.

It is almost two years since we published the 'Welsh Language Communities Housing Plan'. This was more than just a housing plan; it looked at those things that are important to create resilience in our Welsh-speaking communities. And the plan focuses on communities with a higher density of Welsh speakers—in other words, communities where Welsh remains the predominant language of the community and is, therefore, naturally used in everyday life. And, of course, these areas also have a high number of second homes.

It's a pleasure today to give an update to you all on some of the plan's main programmes. First of all, I'd like to talk about the work that has been undertaken to create social enterprises or community-led housing projects. To date, over 40 community groups have been awarded a grant through the Perthyn project to establish a social enterprise or encourage capacity building through the medium of Welsh. These projects create work locally and bring the community together for the benefit of the Welsh language. But, more importantly, they create sustainable communities for the future. Today, a new round of the Perthyn grant scheme opens for community groups to apply for funding.

Secondly, I would like to highlight the work of the cultural ambassador scheme, and, to date, over 150 people have signed up to the scheme. I want to see a network of ambassadors stretching from north to south Wales, discussing and working for the benefit of the Welsh language in their local communities.

Thirdly, we have established an affordability and second homes pilot scheme in the Dwyfor area in partnership with Cyngor Gwynedd, Eryri National Park, Grŵp Cynefin and Adra housing association. The pilot trials several interventions to manage the number of second homes. Jayne Bryant, the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government will make a written statement on this tomorrow. As part of the plan, we also pledged to bring together estate agents in the Dwyfor area to plan and identify opportunities to collaborate and to better understand the local housing market. This was a beneficial, productive meeting, and a further meeting will take place before the end of the year.

Also, as part of the co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru, we have allocated £11 million to the Arfor 2 programme. Arfor is trialling a number of projects to support the traditional Welsh-speaking heartlands. We are eager to learn from these schemes, particularly to understand the relationship between the economy and the language, as well as sharing good practice when it comes to mainstreaming the Welsh language into other policies.

Finally, the plan had also noted the intention to establish a commission to look closely at the situation of our Welsh-speaking communities. The commission has submitted its report to the Welsh Government, and I would like to note today that I very much welcome the work. I would also like to take a few moments to thank the chair, Dr Simon Brooks, and the members of the commission for their meticulous work. The report addresses the challenges and opportunities facing the Welsh language. It analyses the 2021 census data on the Welsh language, and the 57 recommendations include areas such as equality, economy, workplaces, housing, education and community development. We are currently working across Government to prepare our response to the report.

We know that the 2021 census data shows that our language is losing ground in the traditional Welsh-speaking heartlands. This is true in Gwynedd, Ynys Môn, Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire, as well as in the surrounding areas where there is the highest density of Welsh speakers. I agree with the commission that any decline of the language in the areas with a higher density of Welsh speakers threatens its future as a national language.

We have also announced the second phase of the commission's work, which will look at the position of the Welsh language in those areas that have lost Welsh as a community language but where there has been a recent revival in some of these areas. The commission will look at our policies and work programmes to understand the situation facing the Welsh language in these areas as well.

To better understand the situation and the challenges within our areas with a higher density of Welsh speakers, we are working in collaboration with Prosiect Bro. This is a project being led by the University of Wales Trinity Saint David in partnership with the University of the Highlands and Islands, and Jesus College, Oxford to carry out a sociolinguistic survey. Prosiect Bro builds on similar work that has been undertaken in Ireland and Scotland, but this is the first time that the methodology has been used in Wales. This is a three-year project, and it will present us with a final report in 2026. My hope is that Prosiect Bro will also tell the story behind the statistics—who speaks Welsh, where do they speak it, and what can we do to help them speak Welsh more often.

The economy and the workforce continue to be important in areas with a higher density Welsh speakers in terms of tackling depopulation and creating sustainable communities. Workplaces and workforces also ensure the language is seen as the language of work across Wales. The Welsh Language and Education (Wales) Bill certainly creates an opportunity to bridge the gap between education and the world of work.

I had a constructive conversation with Welsh Language Commissioner yesterday, and we discussed the importance of using Welsh within workplaces across Wales. I have received the commissioner’s annual report and have laid the report at the Senedd today. There will be an opportunity to discuss the content of the report on the floor of the Senedd before the end of this year.

In closing, I would like to emphasise that the Welsh language belongs to everyone—those who can speak it, those who can speak a little of it, and those who don’t speak the language at all. By working together, we can provide a solid foundation for the Welsh language, and I would like to thank everyone in the Senedd, all parties of the Senedd, for their support, and the support, I’m sure, in continuing this important work.

Shwmae, Cabinet Secretary. May I start by talking about Diwrnod Shwmae, because I think it’s important not just for the number of people who speak Welsh but for language usage—the number of people who speak the language? I think there was a question last week from Rhys ab Owen, who talked about old friends who knew Welsh and understood words in Welsh, but, having left school, they’d never think of using the language as a friend group. So, I think days like Diwrnod Shwmae are very important in starting people on that journey of having conversations through the medium of Welsh, and doing so naturally, and I think that’s important too.

Can I also start by agreeing with your final comments in saying that the Welsh language belongs to everyone? You’re entirely right in saying that. Of course, it’s important that we look at language use and the number of Welsh speakers in the context of the census. That’s important, and what we saw in the last census was that the number of speakers not just in high-density Wels-speaking areas, but in other areas of Wales, is declining, and the challenge now for the Welsh Government and its partners is to ensure that if we are to reach a million Welsh speakers by 2050, that we can reverse that trend, or turn the ship around, if you like, in terms of securing change.

I was going to talk about the housing plan, which you mentioned. Now, we’ve had a number of discussions in this Chamber, and you’ll know that the Welsh Conservatives don’t necessarily support some of the policies that you’ve already mentioned. Now, you did mention the policies, but what and where are the figures and measures, so that we can assess whether these policies are working? The intention of the policy was that more people would be able to remain in their communities so that they could use the Welsh language in their communities and wouldn’t have to move. Is that working, and where are the figures to back that up, so that we can understand exactly what is happening and what will happen in future?

Could I also welcome—? You mentioned Prosiect Bro, because you’re right to say that there's more to this than statistics; there are also people's stories about why people leave their communities. That's very important if we as politicians are going to discuss new policies in terms of what works and what doesn't work. Also, within that, I wanted to mention the Ymgartrefu grant from Llwyddo'n Lleol that you knew about last summer, because this isn't a Welsh Government grant, but does the Welsh Government assess this grant? Because if this is something that is succeeding, then perhaps we need to consider whether that's something that we would wish to develop as a Senedd, because the Government also wants to do it.

I also wanted to mention communities where less Welsh is spoken. I didn't want to say 'non-Welsh-speaking communities', but communities where there are fewer Welsh speakers. I wanted to mention Gower College Swansea, because I went to Gower college on Friday to meet with them and the Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol. They told me about the excellent amount of work that the Welsh department there was doing to develop people who came into the college with a little bit of Welsh, who perhaps weren't undertaking their courses through the medium of Welsh, but could develop their Welsh language skills whilst undertaking various courses. That's important and I want to put on record my thanks to the Welsh department at Gower College Swansea.

And to conclude, I wanted to talk about the Welsh Language and Education (Wales) Bill that I was discussing with you outside a little earlier. That is very important and has the potential to be something of a game changer, if you like, in terms of the number of speakers and hitting that target. But, having sat on the education committee, what's become very clear from the witnesses who have given us evidence is that there is a staffing issue. This is what we always return to—I will conclude now, Dirprwy Lywydd. We do know, for example, from the Education Workforce Council that the number of people who are being trained to teach through the medium of Welsh is declining almost annually, and that will create some sort of bottleneck for the future in terms of our ambition to develop the number of Welsh speakers. So, how does the Welsh Government explain that? Because if you live in a community that is Welsh speaking, or in a community that is traditionally not Welsh speaking, the most important thing is that Welsh education is available to those people who want it, and that can't happen without teachers. Thank you.

Dirprwy Lywydd, thank you very much. Thank you to Tom Giffard for that constructive contribution and for the questions as well. Of course, I agree on the first point that he made about the importance of the use of the Welsh language. That's what we were discussing last week. We have  an ambition to create a million Welsh speakers, but a million Welsh speakers who can use the language and use more of the language every day. The census is difficult, but it's complex too. The census was undertaken during the COVID period, and we aren't sure about the impact that that had and how people responded to the census. There are other figures that don't align with the census, and that's why work is ongoing with officials in the Welsh Government and those working for the ONS.

There were a number of questions about how we know whether the plans that we currently have are succeeding. Well, there are a number of things that we can use to measure that. We know, for example, in Dwyfor that the work that has been done to adapt homebuy has increased the number of people who have succeeded in accessing money to remain in their local areas, and to buy homes to do so. That number has increased, and it's increased very swiftly as well, over the period of the pilot. The recent figures have now come out for council tax in Gwynedd and Dwyfor, and they can demonstrate if the number of second homes has gone up or gone down. That information will be included in the statement that Jayne Bryant will be publishing tomorrow—those figures. And the intention now is to see whether we can use the methodology that we've used to derive those figures more widely than in Dwyfor alone.

Tom Giffard referred to Llwyddo'n Lleol. That scheme is part of Arfor and, of course, research is ongoing to see whether the things that people are doing under the Arfor heading are succeeding as well. That work is being led by Meirion Thomas from Penbryn Consulting and Professor Kevin Morgan from the university here in Cardiff. That's an independent research project and reports will be published to show us where that scheme has been successful.

Thank you to Tom Giffard for what he said about the importance of people who are teaching in those communities where less Welsh is spoken. I look forward to the next stage of the commission's work, which is going to be focusing on those communities where less Welsh is spoken, and to assist us then in seeing what we can do to help people, like those individuals that Tom Giffard mentioned, who work so hard to create opportunities for people to learn and use the Welsh language.

Finally, I'm appearing before the committees next week. I have three committee meetings on the Bill, and I'm sure that the points that Tom Giffard has raised about staffing will come up in those meetings. But just briefly this afternoon, that's why the Bill provides opportunities over a decade—over a decade—for schools to get to the point where they can do everything we want to see them do via the Bill. It's time that will help us, to recruit people, to train people and get to the point where we can do everything the Bill wants us to do.

May I thank the Cabinet Secretary for the statement today? I know I'd raised with the Trefnydd that I would like to have an opportunity to discuss the commission's report, but you've provided us with more than just an update and an opportunity to discuss the commission's report. I'm very pleased, too, that you've acknowledged and provided an update on some of the elements of the co-operation agreement, which have been so important in terms of this work.

I'd like to begin by adding my own thanks to the members of the commission for their work, under the leadership of Simon Brooks. The fact that we have 57 recommendations says it all, I think, in terms of the range of areas where we need to see action or a strengthening of actions. It's not just an issue of education, and so on, this covers every portfolio and it's excellent to see that being reflected. It is a report that makes an important contribution to the aspiration that all of us in this Siambr share, namely to see the 'Cymraeg 2050' target being reached. You concluded your statement today by saying that it is an issue that has cross-party support and that's positive in and of itself. And without a shadow of doubt, the first recommendation is vital in this regard, that is, the need to strengthen the language as a community language, and that public policy therefore needs to reflect the objectives in terms of bolstering Welsh-speaking communities and strengthening the language's sustainability in these communities.

I do think it's important that we look at this issue in a wider context too. Only last week, the latest data from the annual population survey was published, which included data on the number of Welsh speakers in Wales. In the year ending 30 June 2024, 27.8 per cent of people aged three and over are able to speak Welsh, which is the lowest percentage recorded for eight years—the figure in June 2023 was 29.2 per cent. Clearly, Tom Giffard has referred to the decline recorded in the 2021 census, and I note your response, but if we look at the annual population survey as well, I'm sure that all of us are concerned to see that decline reflected there and want to understand why, despite the fact that we have Diwrnod Shwmae Su'mae, or 'Ffordd ŷch chi?', if you're from mid Wales, like some of my family, one wonders why, therefore, when we have more positive attitudes to the language, we aren't we seeing the numbers increasing. 

We haven't to date received the full response from the Government to every single one of the recommendations, but I welcome the fact that you've said that you welcome them, and that a response will come in due course. May I ask whether there is a timetable for that response, or are you saying, in saying that you warmly welcome all of these recommendations, that you accept the 57? Earlier, in response to Tom Giffard, you mentioned that there was a possibility in terms of how they may become part of current Government policies or Bills, for example, the Welsh language and education Bill. I would be grateful to know how much capacity the Government has to act in response to the 57 recommendations, if the intention is to do so.

I was also pleased to hear you refer to the second inquiry into other areas that have a medium or lower density of Welsh speakers. I'd be grateful to know whether a timetable has been set for this work, because, clearly, the first commission took two years. But I would argue, perhaps as somebody from Ynys Môn originally, but who has now made a home in Pontypridd, that the role of the Welsh language in these communities is exceptionally important. There is a Welsh-speaking community in all parts of Wales, it's just a matter of how many people are able to speak Welsh and have the opportunities to speak Welsh through the education system, and to work, indeed, through the medium of Welsh. It's clear from this report that business as usual is not going to help us to reach the 'Cymraeg 2050' target, so it would be beneficial for the Senedd to have clarity on the points that have been made as we begin to scrutinise this report and the 57 recommendations, and, more importantly, to act on them.

You referred to the cultural ambassadors. I am confident that we on these benches all believe that we have been cultural ambassadors for decades now. I believe that attitudes are changing, but in terms of county councils, which have such a prominent role, how do we expand this programme of cultural ambassadors so that we have more people part of the task of sharing the message? You're right, of course, the Welsh language belongs to us all, but it doesn't feel that way at the moment, and perhaps all of us are on the same page in this Siambr, but, unfortunately, that isn't true across Wales at the moment. How do we ensure that those who have an influence on the recommendations concur with this Senedd's view?

Thank you very much for the questions, of course. I think the point is that the 'Welsh Language Communities Housing Plan' report has created a lot more work, so I have tried to report back on the specific work on the plan, but also to demonstrate how that work has developed in the two years since its publication.

I agree, of course: it's not just education. Education is crucially important, but there are a number of other things that we can do across Government to promote the Welsh language. The fact that, here in the Senedd, there is strong cross-party support for the Welsh language, that continues to be important for us as we seek to continue with the work that will be effective in this area.

Of course I am concerned about the decline in the numbers in the census, as I said to Tom Giffard, and that highlights the fact that this wasn't an issue for any one party or any one area. Personally, I'm concerned about Carmarthenshire, where the figures have declined so swiftly, and there are things that we are doing to focus on Carmarthenshire to try to discover if there are reasons behind that, because the county council there is very supportive of the Welsh language, and we've worked very closely with them as a Government here. So, we need to try to understand what lies behind those figures and what we can do to help people in those communities.

There will be a response to the report published by Dr Simon Brooks early next year. I'm not going to say today, of course, that we're going to accept every single one of the recommendations contained within the report. That's why there is work ongoing across Government to consider every one of the recommendations.

The second phase of the commission's work will report back to the Senedd, I believe, in December 2026. There will be a particular report published by the commission on planning by the end of this year. So, there will be a further report this year, and then the report on the second phase—communities where there is a lower density of Welsh speakers—will be available by the end of 2026.

I'd also like to invite every Senedd Member to become a cultural ambassador. As Heledd has already said, many people do that work already and have done over many years. But we do want to create a network of people and to strengthen that network, and any Member in this place who wants to be involved with that work would be welcome to get involved.

I'd like to thank the Cabinet Secretary for the statement this afternoon. I’d like, if I may, to thank Dr Simon Brooks for the work that he has led over the past few years. I think that the report is a historic piece of work when it comes to looking at the future of Welsh-speaking communities. I hope that there is a duty now on the Welsh Government, and I have full faith in the Cabinet Secretary that he will respond to every one of those recommendations. Because the future of Welsh-speaking communities goes to the heart of what we are trying to do in terms of creating 1 million Welsh speakers. The Welsh language has to be a living language in communities where it's possible to speak the Welsh language naturally, and that's vital to that vision.

I see too that the Cabinet Secretary is leading the Welsh language education Bill at the moment, and I think that is an important element of this work, too. I would appreciate the opportunity to discuss this further with the Cabinet Secretary at another date. But if I may in contributing this afternoon encourage you to look at every one of the recommendations in Dr Simon Brooks's report and ensure that there is a serious and full reply in response to every single one. Because we must, if 1 million Welsh speakers means anything, change the way that the Government thinks, change the way that the Government works, to ensure that the Government works together to ensure a future for the Welsh language in the communities where the language lives.

I'd like to thank Alun Davies for that contribution. Of course I agree with him when he says that we should thank Simon Brooks and the other 10 members of the group that drew up this report. There will be a response to each of the recommendations. I'm not going to say this afternoon that we will accept all the recommendations, but there will be a response to every one of those recommendations.

The report, Dirprwy Lywydd, does draw upon more than 50 years of history now, where attempts have been made to promote the Welsh language. We can look back to the 1960s and the 1993 Welsh Language Act, and the work of Mr Roberts of Conwy, of course. I've been reading up on the history over the last 50 years to see what lessons we can learn. I had an opportunity to read the foreword to the White Paper in 2017, which was written by Alun Davies. Alun said that there is a need to

'give new energy to our efforts to promote the language',

'We must foster people’s desire and confidence to learn and to use the language...as a normal part of everyday life.'

That's where the Simon Brooks report is going to help us to provide opportunities where people already speak Welsh on a daily basis, and to enhance their opportunities to continue to do that for the future, but also to create further opportunities for people in those communities where the second phase of Dr Brooks's work will focus.

Minister, Cowbridge Road was a sea of red this morning, not because of last night's football game but because schoolchildren were wearing red to go to school to celebrate Diwrnod Shwmae Su'mae. Some parts of Cardiff now have a greater proportion of Welsh speakers than towns in the Welsh-speaking heartlands; the language is growing here. And we're going back—the language was the majority language in Cardiff in century before last. A great deal of that growth is because over 70 per cent in Welsh-medium education in Cardiff are from non-Welsh speaking homes.

I'd like to focus briefly on the 'Cymraeg i Bawb' slogan. We all agree that Welsh is for everybody, but it's one thing to agree with the principle; it's another then to transfer that to our communities. As I visit schools in Cardiff, I get the feeling—and there are no figures, unfortunately, to demonstrate this—that more children where English or Welsh aren't the first language of their home go to English-medium schools as opposed to Welsh-medium schools. We're losing people from homes where Welsh or English are not the first language from Welsh-medium provision. How can we truly ensure that the Welsh language is a language for all, and that we attract these families to Welsh-medium education? Thank you. 

I thank Rhys for those questions. The growth in Welsh-medium education in the Canton area has been one of the greatest success stories over recent decades. I remember chairing a meeting of the first group in one of the new schools in Canton, where there weren't many people at all coming forward to access Welsh-medium education, and that's changed over the decades. That's why I believe that we can be confident that we can do more and attract more people in from families that don't have English or Welsh as a first language. 

That has already started. I remember in that school that I mentioned in its first year, there wasn't a single black face in that school, and that was in the middle of Canton, in Riverside, where those communities live. That has changed. There's a lot more to be done, but we need to draw on what's happened already in those communities and, in doing that, I think we can be confident that we can take steps forward to attract more people into Welsh-medium education in our local communities.   

I agree with Alun Davies; I believe that this report is a milestone. Exactly as was the case in the creation of the Welsh Language Act 1993, where there was a party political consensus in favour of the Welsh language for the first time, I think this now is a further step forward: a consensus regarding the importance of protecting and promoting the Welsh language where it is an everyday community language, looking forward to the time when that is the case in all parts of Wales. 

Every one of the 57 recommendations are important and I look forward to seeing the responses. But may I draw your attention to, for me, the most important recommendation, namely 16? It talks about creating a body to organise this work, to co-ordinate this work. Because you can have the very best ideas, but without there being a home or a medium for those ideas—. To some extent, the commission has operated in that role in the past few years and in the work that it still has to do, but there needs to be continuity after that.

I know that the Minister has said sometimes that there is no problem in Wales that Adam Price doesn't want to create a body for. [Laughter.] In this case, there is a just case for that. But whilst you are considering that, do we need a transition phase now? We've had Arfor 1 and Arfor 2, but is there scope for us to have Arfor 3 whilst we consider the shape, the scope, form and structure of whatever body will be able to take this work forward?

Thank you very much to Adam Price. Adam has already said what I'd intended to say, because behind recommendation 16 is the argument as to whether we want to see brand-new bodies being created, or do we have something in place already where we can make adaptations and create the body that the report suggests. I'm sure that would draw on the experiences in Arfor as something that has been in place for a long while and has seen a great deal of success. So, when we consider those recommendations, we can think again about whether we need to establish a new body or can we use what we already have in place and transition to the future by using the experiences that people have had in the past.

Finally, Delyth Jewell.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and shwmae. I agree with you 100 per cent about this feeling that Welsh is for everyone. One of the challenges that we have in places such as the Valleys is the feeling a number of people have that their Welsh isn't good enough, that complex that people have about mutations and so on. Would you join me in saying that, yes, Welsh is for everyone, but everyone's Welsh is valid, and that there is a welcome, we are enriched by different ways of speaking Welsh, by different dialects, that there is a place for all, and people shouldn't feel like that? What do you think could be done to ensure that that confidence challenge doesn't mean that so many people say in the census that they don't speak Welsh? What can we do to ensure that people do take that leap and take pride in their Welsh, how rich that Welsh is and how much of a difference that makes?

I'd like to thank Delyth Jewell. I think there were two points there. One is to highlight the fact that people who speak English all speak English in an entirely different way and nobody says, 'Well, my English isn't good enough to be used'. So, why do Welsh speakers have that complex? 

And secondly, I just want to tell people that the only way to improve your Welsh language skills is by using the Welsh language. I make mistakes every time I speak Welsh; we all do. But it's only by using the Welsh language can we improve our skills, and I just want to persuade people not to worry and just use the Welsh language. By using the Welsh language, your Welsh will improve.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

Item 7 is a debate on the Children’s Commissioner for Wales's annual report for 2023-24. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice to move the motion. Jane Hutt.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I am pleased to introduce our annual children's commissioner's report debate. The report has the vital function of highlighting the issues that concern children and young people in Wales. 

Wales has a proud tradition of upholding children's rights. We were the first country in the UK to enshrine children's rights into law in 2011. We were also the first UK nation to establish the office of the children's commissioner, providing our children with a strong independent advocate, to make sure our children's voices are heard. Indeed, I was the Minister who introduced the legislation to appoint the first children's commissioner in the UK. The important point about that was that we decided to engage children and young people in the appointment process, which has now followed through to the appointments of every successor children's commissioner. And I would like to pay tribute to those organisations who facilitated this along our journey to children and young people's full participation. Voices from Care Cymru and Children in Wales are playing a key role to support us in getting that engagement. 

We want a Wales for all children, where their rights are respected, protected and fulfilled, a Wales where every person feels valued, respected and heard. In Wales, we've led the way in implementing the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. We published our response to the UN committee's concluding observations in July. The response and the collaborative approach we took to developing it through a series of workshops with stakeholders and children and young people has been very well received.

In 2020, thanks to the long-standing leadership of Julie Morgan as Minister, as MS and as MP, we passed legislation to ban all forms of physical punishment of children in Wales, upholding their right to live free from violence. We've extended voting rights to 16 and 17-year-olds in Senedd and local government elections, supporting the right for young people to have their voices heard. We've introduced a new Curriculum for Wales, which places a duty on schools to raise awareness of children's rights. We've published professional learning modules to support staff in fulfilling this duty. As part of the co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru, we have recently completed the roll-out of free school meals to all pupils in maintained primary schools across Wales. As the first UK nation to offer free school meals to all primary school pupils, we're supporting children in their right to good health and access to education.

The commissioner's recommendations reflect the breadth of policies we're taking forward to benefit children's rights, and a number of these fall within my own portfolio. The Welcome Ticket scheme provided free public transport for refugees and others given humanitarian protection. The commissioner has recommended we consider how this scheme can be relaunched to include children seeking asylum in Wales, and I'm pleased to report that negotiations are under way to launch phase 2 of the Welcome Ticket free bus travel offer as soon as possible, and we're making every effort to develop a scheme that has minimal barriers to entry for those seeking asylum.

Dirprwy Lywydd, the commissioner has also asked for a review—called for a review—of the community cohesion strategy. Our planned activities to address anti-immigration narratives are set out in the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', which contains a range of actions to address the causes of racist and religious hate as well as providing free and accessible support and advocacy to those who experience hate.

We've also appointed four regional forum conveners, representing mid and south, central, east and north Wales, to act as a bridge, conduit, between Welsh Government and our black, Asian and minority ethnic communities. They will test our policies on the ground and work closely with policy officials across the Welsh Government to ensure delivery and impact; two out of four regional conveners are currently in post.

As part of the refresh of the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', we have actively listened to our communities and the feedback from the external accountability group, and a key theme that emerged is the need to better engage young people, ensuring their voices are heard and represented in shaping future policies. In response, we've included specific goals and actions focused on the engagement of black, Asian and minority ethnic young people. These actions are designed to promote equality, inclusion and diversity, both in terms of access to youth work services in Wales and in relation to the role that youth work services can play in proactively challenging discriminatory attitudes and behaviours within society. The plan is crucial to ensuring all children in Wales, whatever their race or religion, are able to access their rights.

Finally, there is a recommendation in the refreshed 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' to establish a community forum to communicate progress on the plan to Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community members, including children and young people. We're establishing a stakeholder group to bring community members and policy makers together. An engagement mechanism for children and young people from the community is also in development, and this will support those children to access their right to have their voices heard in decisions that affect them.

I know that my colleagues in Cabinet are actively considering all the recommendations that fall to them. For example, the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales announced in Plenary last week that he's asked his officials to work with the office of the children's commissioner to understand the motivations as well as the barriers to encouraging more young people to use public transport. 

Finally, I would say that the commissioner's independent role is crucial in holding the Government to account and ensures that we maintain a collective focus on children's rights in Wales, and I look forward to hearing your views on the commissioner's annual report. Diolch, Deputy Llywydd.

I have selected the two amendments to the motion, and I call on Joel James to move amendment 1, tabled in the name of Darren Millar.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and can I begin by moving the amendment tabled in the name of Darren Millar and by thanking the children's commissioner for her annual report and for the effort of all those in producing it?

I would like to focus my contribution on three areas, if I may. The first is a very concerning finding of increased use of e-cigarettes or vapes amongst children and young people, and the secondary schools survey highlighted in the report finding that 24 per cent of children and young people have tried vaping and 7 per cent were found to regular users. What is even more shocking is that, last year, a Welsh drugs testing service found that two in every five sample vape liquids tested contained one or more synthetic cannabinoid receptor agonists, which is commonly known as 'spice'. These agonists are associated with serious health issues, ranging from breathing difficulties to psychotic episodes. These lab-made drugs are designed to mimic the effects of cannabis, but they tend to be far more unpredictable and harmful and, ultimately, children and young people are buying vaping liquids in the belief that they contain cannabis or CBD or THC liquids, but they are in fact laced with spice, and are being sold by drug dealers with the intention of creating addicts to further sell to. These concerns are further highlighted by an incident response group report that shows an increasing number of children are now unable to get through the school day without vaping, and that there's increased recognition that children are also waking up during the night in order to vape. The rise of vaping has been very fast, and the truth is that children and young people are at the front line of being exploited by black-market drug dealers. This data that I've highlighted is, sadly, only the tip of the iceberg, and allowing children and young people to use these products is simply creating a massive health problem in future that we will just simply not be able to deal with.

With this in mind, I echo the call by the children's commissioner to take stronger action in banning the supply of disposable or single-use vaping devices, making more nicotine-replacement therapies available, and making sure vapes are not visible at the point of sale. As we all know here, four in five smokers start before the age of 20 and are addicted for life, and so we need to be acting much faster if we're going to prevent this health epidemic from emerging. I've highlighted this before in the Chamber, but I personally would like to see even more action taken in schools to educate children about the health, and in particular the mental health, implications of vaping. But that onus should not be put entirely on teachers to make sure that children and young people are aware of the dangers of vaping. There should be more co-ordinated efforts by professionals to teach and demonstrate what vaping actually does to the body, and how buying vapes from black-market dealers is fuelling crime.

Secondly, Dirprwy Lywydd, I'd like to pick up the point of food in schools. The commissioner reported that only 19 per cent of children felt full after their meal. Almost half said that they can't have more food—seconds—if they ask for it, and almost a quarter of children said they can't always have vegetables if they want them, with almost a quarter saying they can't always have fruit if they want them. This issue has been raised with me consistently by my own constituents, who have pointed out that the portion sizes for school meals is the same regardless of your age, height or weight, so a child in year 5 or 6 would get the same sized meal as a child in year 1 or 2. Moreover, the variety of school meals is very limited. One constituent I was speaking to about this said that the options every day are either jacket potato with cheese or beans, and one other option, which was the same each week: so, every Monday it would be pizza, every Tuesday, pasta, and so on. The Welsh Government has provided free school meals for all primary school children, which is a notably moral aim. However, like the commissioner has said, there needs to be improved quality and options for children and young people's school meal times, otherwise we're still enforcing a two-tier system, where children of richer families will still be provided a packed lunch that their child wants, and children of poorer families are left going hungry on school meals without many options for eating fruit or vegetables. Personally, I believe that there should be more focus by primary schools in teaching children about what they should eat and actually getting them involved in preparing their own lunches, so that they can learn valuable life lessons in understanding what is healthy and what is not.

Finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, I'd like to bring up the issue of mental health and well-being, and the fact that it is one of the biggest issues raised by children and young people themselves, with almost 45 per cent of them saying that more mental health support needs to be provided. We know that identifying poor mental health and providing appropriate support and treatment is essential for children and young people, especially since half of all mental health conditions start by the age of 14, and I find it quite interesting how mental health services for children and young people have long been regarded as a cinderella service—poorly funded and with long waits for those who are referred. I appreciate that solving this problem is not straightforward. There are issues surrounding recruitment and the fact that there are significant regional differences. There's also the issue of child poverty, which has an influence here. There are links to those children living in poverty, who are more likely to experience maltreatment in one way or another, and this has the potential to seriously impact mental health. The Children's Commissioner for Wales has called for the Welsh Government's child poverty strategy to have clear targets and measurable outcomes, and this is one that I and my party absolutely support.

You need to conclude now, please, Joel.

Last sentence. We also call on the Welsh Government to work with the children's commissioner to implement the WAVE Trust's campaign to reduce child abuse, neglect and other adverse childhood experiences by 2030, because those efforts will undoubtedly help to have a co-ordinated approach in improving the lives of so many children. With this in mind, Dirprwy Lywydd, I urge everyone here to support our amendment. Thank you.

I now call on Sioned Williams to move amendment 2, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. There are several important elements, I think, to the report that require the Government's attention, a number of them related to the impact of poverty and the way that children's rights are being undermined. I'd like to start by placing on record Plaid Cymru's thanks to the commissioner for the way that she has challenged those who hold the reins of power in such a robust manner, and for the way that she has kept a focus on the way that poverty continues, as she has said, to ruin the lives of children in Wales.  

Although we agree with the substance of the Conservative amendment to the motion in terms of supporting the calls made by the commissioner for the Welsh Government's child poverty strategy to include clear targets and measurable outcomes, the Plaid Cymru amendment makes it clear that there is unquestionably a responsibility on the previous Conservative UK Government for intensifying child poverty levels in Wales. The austerity policies of the past 14 years have had a disastrous impact on public services and the health of our nation, leading to a national crisis—a crisis that continues to intensify.

The Conservatives introduced the cap on benefits and the two-child limit, which have exacerbated those high levels of poverty. The great shame is that Labour has refused to reverse this unjust and damaging step when it has the power to do so, and our Government here in Wales is too cowardly to ask for this to happen, too willing to put party interests before the interests of our children. Where are their rights under article 27 of the convention to an adequate quality of life?

Our amendment also regrets that the Welsh Government in 2016 abolished the target of eradicating child poverty by 2020. Many months since the publication of the child poverty strategy at the end of January this year, published, of course, without targets to set an ambition or drive delivery, the day before yesterday we saw the monitoring framework that has been created to measure progress. Although one of the greatest minds of their party, Gordon Brown, made the case less than six months ago for a clear vision and deliverable timetable from our Government to end destitution now, and poverty in 10 years, no such target is anywhere to be seen in this Welsh Government framework. Yes, it proposes methods of measuring the impact of the strategy's objectives, but there is no ambition here to drive this work. It is like having a signpost noting how many miles have been run in a race, but without having a finish line for that race. When the targets were dropped in 2016, the reason given by the Government was that decisions made by the Westminster Government of the day were working against attempts to hit the targets. So, my question today is: are we, therefore, to assume that this remains the case, despite the fact that Labour now holds the keys to No. 10?

I'd like to focus, to conclude, on two of the commissioner's priority areas, relating to inequality and lack of action on rights—namely access by children who are asylum seekers and refugees to services, and the discrimination faced by children who belong to Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities. Children who are asylum seekers and refugees are some of the most vulnerable members of our society. Establishing a guardianship scheme has been a clear expectation of the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child since the early days of devolution, and, as a result of us declaring ourselves a nation of sanctuary, it’s disappointing that the Welsh Government has not committed to a service that could be of such great benefit to children in this situation and which would support them in navigating the asylum system, ensure that they understand and can exercise their rights, and advocate on their behalf when needed. The commissioner outlines and summarises the body of evidence that exists to support this call and underlines the fact that a lack of access to public transport has been noted as a barrier that prevents children from accessing and receiving their rights. 

I'm pleased to hear the update that there is a new scheme that will replace the Welcome Ticket scheme, which was cut abruptly by the Welsh Government in April and without another scheme to replace it. But what's the timetable for that scheme, because 'as soon as possible' isn't good enough, I'm afraid?

I'd also like to ask the Government to look at the guidance on discretion for local authorities to provide free school meals to children whose parents or carers have no recourse to public funds. It's an issue I've raised several times in the Siambr, but there has been no action on this. This means, according to the commissioner, that children's rights are being linked to their parents’ status, which does not align to their rights under the convention. 

Finally, I'd like to echo the calls made regarding the inequality experienced by children from our Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities, and the fact that progress on the steps outlined in the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' are far too slow. Absence levels have increased in these communities to an unacceptable peak, and the educational attainment within these communities are among the lowest of all ethnic groups across the key stages. [Interruption.] I'll conclude now. The commissioner’s report draws attention to the barriers that contribute to this situation. So, what is the Welsh Government doing to tackle the low attendance levels amongst learners from Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities, and how is the Welsh Government’s attendance taskforce going to be addressing the barriers to education faced by these same learners? Thank you. 

I call on the Chair of the Children, Young People and Education Committee, Buffy Williams. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I would like to begin by thanking the commissioner and her team for their work over what was clearly an exceptionally busy year. This is the commissioner’s second report relating to the year immediately after the publication of her three-year strategy in April 2023. In that strategy, she wrote that her first year in office was spent primarily listening to children and young people. By contrast, this year’s report covers the first year of the commissioner implementing the strategy. This is a new phase of her tenure.

The commissioner’s nationwide Ambitions for Wales consultation is over, but I am pleased to see that she has continued to prioritise listening to children and young people, extending her office’s reach across Wales and boosting the visibility of the office and its important work. Ever since her pre-appointment hearing with us, my committee colleagues and I have urged her to do everything she can to make herself available to any child who needs her advice and support. So, I was particularly interested to read about the commissioner’s rebranded children’s rights advice and assistance team, and the ways that her office has shone a light on issues affecting children and young people across news and social media.

Of course, I also took note of where she and her staff have taken action across her priority policy areas. Many of these resonate strongly with our own priorities on the Children, Young People and Education Committee. The commissioner talks in her report about the corporate parenting charter. The charter has been a thread throughout the Welsh Government’s work relating to care-experienced children. We fully agree with the concerns raised by the commissioner in her report. The charter is completely voluntary. It mandates no specific actions for the organisations who sign up to it and there are no clear consequences for organisations that do not deliver on their own commitments. We remain sceptical that the charter is going to deliver the tangible change needed for children in care in its current form. Commissioner, I hope we can continue our work holding the Welsh Government and public bodies to account for how they support care-experienced children and young people.

I was also particularly interested to read the commissioner’s concerns about the single unified safeguarding reviews. Just last month, in an evidence session about children who go missing and are criminally exploited, the Welsh Government told us that these reviews were world leading and groundbreaking. Yet, this report raises a number of significant concerns about the proposed new reviews—concerns about governance, accountability and the implementation of review recommendations. Worryingly, the commissioner is unclear about what changes, if any, have been made to the review process to address these concerns.

The report also touches on ALN and accessible education—other key areas of focus for us. The report tells us that concerns about additional learning needs make up 14 per cent of the office’s total case load, that the interpretation of the Act is inconsistent, and that funding is a key reason for provision being withheld from children with additional needs. The commissioner’s findings are consistent with our two recently published reports about ALN and disabled access to childcare and education. I look forward to discussing the ALN reforms tomorrow afternoon during the Senedd’s debate on our education reforms interim report.

I also read with interest updates on her work in other areas that touch on our own work—asylum-seeking children, food in schools, mental health and well-being, and much more; too much to cover in just one debate.

Overall, I sense a sharpened focus on holding agencies to account in this year’s report. As a committee that has committed to focusing sharply on implementation, to focus on what’s really happening in the lives of children and young people and not what’s happening in legislation or policy documents, we welcome this focus. I look forward to discussing the commissioner’s work in committee over the coming weeks, and to continue to work with her and her office throughout the rest of the Senedd. Diolch yn fawr.

There are many points for us to note from this report and it reminds us that the Welsh Government still has a steep climb ahead in regard to progress on child poverty, and we have been ascending at a disappointing pace, unfortunately. On many metrics, which we use to measure the developmental progress, happiness and health of children in Wales, standards have been falling pretty much across the board. This is why the Welsh Conservatives are calling on the Welsh Government to work with the children’s commissioner to implement the WAVE Trust’s campaign to reduce child abuse—as Joel James highlighted in his contribution—neglect and other adverse childhood experiences by 2030. On child poverty, of course, I am realistic about what is achievable, and I do not expect the Welsh Government to pursue a utopia. However, 30 per cent children in Wales are still living in poverty, which is way too high. This is higher than both Scotland and Northern Ireland, but it’s more than three times higher than Denmark, Finland and Norway, who demonstrate that it’s perfectly achievable to get child poverty under 10 per cent.

The report highlights that nearly half of children in Wales aged seven to 11 are worried about having enough to eat, which is a completely unacceptable state of affairs for a developed nation like ours. This is not something that can simply be solved by state handouts and freebies, either. The Welsh Government must set the conditions for economic growth and wage growth, with average earnings in Wales being considerably lower than the average UK earnings. Wage growth in Wales was also more sluggish than in most other areas in the UK between 2022 and 2023. It is not possible to remove children from poverty without a thriving private sector. The children’s commissioner, along with Action for Children and Barnardo’s, has also criticised the decision to omit targets from the child poverty strategy. I share their disappointment and think it was the wrong decision. It gives the impression that child poverty is no longer a priority for the Welsh Government and it evades accountability by avoiding setting targets that the Senedd can scrutinise. The former First Minister, Mark Drakeford, once said that nothing motivated him more than the issue of child poverty, and many of us would like to see this attitude carry on in this Government.

The issue of child poverty should go well beyond a discussion on funding. The protection of the nuclear family and the physical and mental health of children and their parents is also central. Aside from material poverty, we must also consider the poverty of spirit that is blighting our next generation. The Children’s Society published a report this year showing that UK teenagers are the least happy in Europe, with surveys indicating that younger generations are less happy than older generations. Children wait longer than adults for mental health support, with data from March showing that just over half of under-18s started a therapeutic intervention within 28 days of an assessment, compared with over 80 per cent of adults. Improving child mental health services to bring down waiting times must be prioritised. There are threats to our young people's health and well-being that didn't exist when I was a child. As my colleague Joel James mentioned, the rise of vaping amongst young people and the effect that social media has on the mental well-being of children and young adults can be hugely detrimental. The Welsh Government needs to be alert and reactive to these societal changes and ensure that the next generation are shielded from harmful trends and societal changes.

The children's commissioner's report also called on the Welsh Government to ensure that funding for additional learning needs provision is put it on a firm and sustainable footing. This is now even more important given that the Welsh Government moved just shy of £1 million out of the ALN resource budget line. Given autism diagnoses have increased by 787 per cent since 1998, and considering autism and neurodiversity referrals have increased in north Wales to the extent that health services cannot cope with the influx of referrals, I think it was inappropriate to cut the budget in this area, and funding has to be ring-fenced, going forward.

To close my remarks I'd like to reiterate my disappointment at the Welsh Government's removal of targets on child poverty. I encourage all Members to support our amendment calling for the Welsh Government's child poverty strategy to have clear targets and measurable outcomes to hold the Government to account over its progress in this area, which must be a priority. Our young people and Wales's next generation are being failed on many fronts, from material poverty to poorer health outcomes, from both a lack of food and overindulgence in poor-quality and processed food, from poorer mental health and well-being to declining standards in education. They deserve better than this, and the Welsh Government must make a start by working with the children's commissioner to implement the WAVE Trust's campaign and start effecting real-world change to improve outcomes for children in this country. Thank you very much.

May I give thanks for the opportunity to discuss the Children's Commissioner for Wales's report today? When you consider that we have the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, the fact that there's so much in this report that demonstrates that children's rights aren't being fulfilled and provided here in Wales is a cause of great concern.

A number of others have already made the point in terms of child poverty. I add my own voice to those calls in terms of specific targets. It was so, so disappointing when previous Labour Governments abolished the target of eradicating child poverty by 2020. This has to be a priority, and I'm pleased that the children's commissioner's report is so clear on that.

Also, in terms of looking at additional learning needs, I was pleased to hear the Chair of the committee focusing on this issue, because, certainly, in terms of the casework I receive in my region, this is an issue that is mentioned time and time again. It doesn't surprise me, to be honest, given that it makes up 14 per cent of the casework, as the single biggest issue, that this is what demands the attention of the children's commissioner.

Through my work on that committee in the past, I saw examples where, with the right support, these children and families can flourish. There is excellent provision in different parts of Wales. But, as is demonstrated clearly in this report, it is a postcode lottery, which then brings huge strain. This report demonstrates clearly that they are being failed from a very, very young age. So, those lifelong impacts are something that we need to reflect upon. Unfortunately, we have raised this issue a number of times, but the situation isn't improving.

Also, looking at the report, reference is made to the joint paper published by the commissioner and the Welsh Language Commissioner in terms of ALN provision through the medium of Welsh specifically. I see that the former education Minister is here now. We had a discussion, when you were in that role, on that issue, but it remains the case that some families cannot access that provision, that they have to change the household language, or we see an increase in parents having to home educate their children. There are failings in this regard, and we're seeing this in black and white in the report, but where are we going to see the progress?

The commissioner's words on a number of these issues are very blunt, and I think that that is something to be welcomed: that there is no fear in terms of challenging the Government when necessary either. I think that we have a debate and that it's something, then—. How do we, then, report back on all of these areas? Obviously, there's a number of committees that will be looking at different aspects of this report, but I do think it's important that we also have the opportunity to hear from the Government how we're going to see improvement, and the point in terms of targets is important in that regard.

Vaping is another issue that is raised very often by children and young people when I visit schools. I think that it is clear that this is a cause of great concern for children and young people. It comes across in this report and I'd like to see action on this.

And I'd like to add my voice on the issue of public transport. This is something, once again, that we've been discussing for several years. It's shown clearly here that it's a concern across Wales that is not just impacting the ability to access education, but also all the other rich experiences that come along with children's rights: the right to engage with sport, with culture, and so on, to be involved in sporting activities after school, because we're seeing a decline in the number of children from deprived families who can participate in those kinds of activities. So, we have to find solutions.

So, I welcome this report. Unfortunately, it does paint a picture for us of how much of a challenge there is across Wales in terms of giving children their rights. But what I want to know is how the Welsh Government, now, is going to act in response to many of these recommendations, understanding, of course, that the financial situation is as it is, but certainly we are going to be failing future generations if we can't take action on these issues.

I'm very pleased to speak in this debate today. As the Cabinet Secretary said in her introduction, Wales was the first country in the UK to have a children's commissioner, and I'd like to thank the children's commissioner for her report and for all the great work that she does on behalf of the children here in Wales.

I think we have made steps forward in terms of children's rights in Wales. The Cabinet Secretary mentioned the votes for 16 and 17-year-olds and the abolition of the defence of reasonable punishment, and I am hoping that, with the new Government in England, we will see both those things replicated now in England, because I think they are essential for children's rights.

As the newly elected chair of the newly set up Gypsy and Traveller cross-party group, I'd like to focus on the part of the report that's on Gypsy and Traveller children. Sioned Williams mentioned in her contribution the worrying upward trend of low attendance at school, post COVID, of Gypsy and Traveller children. And I know we've seen a general drop in attendance of all children, but the figures appear to be particularly high for Gypsy and Traveller children. I think, in the past, they were used to living, working and learning at home, and some of that has been reverted to. But there is a lack of funding for specialist centres, and two specialist centres, I know myself, have closed in Swansea and in Pembrokeshire. But the excellent provision in Torfaen has continued, where the attendance has continued to rise.

The other worrying things are the figures in the report about Gypsy and Traveller children's experience in school, with only 37 per cent of Gypsy and Traveller young people agreeing that their teachers care about them as a person, and 52 per cent feeling that their teachers don't accept them, which I think are really worrying figures. I've spoken at length to a Gypsy mother, who described the experiences of her teenage son in high school, and the extreme levels of prejudice and bullying that he experienced. This is just not acceptable and we simply have to do better on this.

The need for culturally appropriate accommodation is the foundation for all Gypsy and Traveller children to flourish and progress. It's important that they feel visible and recognised for their way of life and for their needs. Gypsies and Travellers need to have much better access to sites all across Wales, and I know there is a commitment to this in the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', to increase the number and quality of local authority permanent and transit pitches, as well as explore options for the rental of trailers. But I think we all know that this work has been extremely slow, and I think we must speed it up as much as we can.

For example, how can Gypsy and Traveller children and young people feel part of a society where they are forced into bricks and mortar against their culture, and their parents cannot access local authority sites or get planning permission for land they own? I think we all know what the problem is, and we know that there has been money put by the Government in order for this to happen, but it is proving to be very difficult to get adequate accommodation, and I think that’s one of the things that we need to concentrate on.

I’d therefore like the Welsh Government to pay particular attention to Gypsy and Traveller children in Wales. I think the evidence is showing that we are working far too slowly on bettering Gypsy and Traveller children and young people’s lives in Wales, and I know that the Cabinet Secretary will go out and listen to these children and take on board their views.

So, once again, thank you very much to the children’s commissioner for highlighting this group of children and young people. In conclusion, I do think we have made great progress on children’s rights in Wales, but there’s no doubt that we have a huge way still to go. Diolch.

The Equality and Social Justice Committee, in November 2023, published the report, 'Calling time on child poverty'. Our clear recommendation was that Welsh Government should set interim and longer term targets for reducing child poverty, learning from the approaches from many other countries, such as Scotland and New Zealand.

Yesterday, you published the monitoring framework for the child poverty strategy. It had a review in there by Professor Rod Hick, who you’ve mentioned here in the Siambr. It makes it really clear that the route the Welsh Government continues to go down is, 'No targets and therefore no change.'

I welcome the children’s commissioner’s report. It brings together a real tapestry of the best, but sadly also the worst, for Welsh children. The successes of the commission’s work, the third sector, who are continuously under funding threats, and many families, but also the failures of all Governments who, year after year, fail to provide a safe, prosperous and equitable future for so many children here in Wales. I’m keen not to pass the blame on to anyone, and we all need to work together, but it’s something that we should be ashamed of in this Siambr, that 29 per cent of children here in Wales are in poverty, and we must do better.

We should all welcome the agreement between Plaid Cymru and Labour around free school meals. This had made a difference. But we must go further. The Welsh Liberal Democrats want to see free school meals for all children during the school holidays. We want to make sure that there’s continual investment in programmes to tackle huger, isolation and exclusion all year round.

I want to turn to one particular recommendation from the report, which is close to my heart as a social worker. In August, I asked the Government how many local authorities had signed up to the corporate parent charter. The Government responded to say that only 17 had signed up to the charter. So, a specific question is: what has the Welsh Government done in order to ensure that the additional Welsh local authorities have signed the charter, will sign the charter, and what monitoring will be taking place?

There are sadly many examples, returning to child poverty, which we see, and I’m pleased to hear from Gareth Davies that you also want to reduce child poverty. So, I’d like you to join with some of us on this side of the Siambr calling for scrapping the two-child benefit cap. Keir Starmer says that we must, 'Share the pain.' Well, if you’re a child living in poverty, you’re already living in pain. Sharing the pain is not something we should be inducing on those children and families.

Let’s look lastly at the Scottish Government, who have really good practice in this particular area. They've set clear targets to reduce child poverty that are enshrined in law. They say that less than 18 per cent of children should live in relative poverty by 2023-24, and less than 14 per cent in absolute poverty by 2023-24, and then reducing to 5 per cent by 2030. Eight per cent and 5 per cent by 2031 in combined low-income and material deprivation, and less than 8 per cent in persistent poverty. As Gareth Davies says, Scotland has already a much reduced child poverty level than we do here in Wales. And let's just remind ourselves that, I'm afraid, England are not doing any better. Their child poverty levels are at 31 per cent.

We need to do better here in Wales. The Labour Welsh Government here has no clear targets on how to eradicate child poverty, and if you actually believe that your strategy will work, then measure it. The children's commissioner's report argues that we need to have those targets. Will you listen to the children's commissioner? Will you listen to the countless experts that the Equality and Social Justice Committee heard from? Will you listen to the countless people around this Siambr, across all of the parties, who have said that we should have targets? I actually did a very quick record of those. In the last four months, you've heard from seven people across all of the political parties asking you why there are no targets for child poverty. Finally, if you say your strategy is going to work, then my question is: why not have targets? What are you afraid of? Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

I'd like to start by thanking the children's commissioner for this incredibly important annual report, which makes for some very interesting and pertinent reading. I commend the commissioner on her wide engagement with families, children and the Welsh Government. The Welsh Government must now listen and act on the commissioner's recommendations, and reflect thoroughly on the crucial aspects of her findings.

As we've already heard, and we will repeat these same statistics, it's incredibly concerning that 30 per cent of children in Wales are living in poverty, with an astonishing 45 per cent of children aged seven to 11, as we've heard, worried about having enough to eat. These statistics are, frankly, an embarrassment to our country, and we have to do more to tackle this blight. Those of us who were around 20 years ago in political circles were hearing similar figures quoted about the levels of poverty. Things haven't changed in 20 years, and that's a sad indictment, for sure. This is 2024, not 1924. 

As the children's commissioner has previously said, the Welsh Government's approach to tackling child poverty does not match the gravity of the situation facing children and young people in Wales today. While the Government may be making some of the right noises, we need to see targeted action. As the children's commissioner has said, it is not clear how the poverty strategy will translate into tangible actions, and how or when they will be delivered, making it difficult to hold them accountable. This is no surprise, really. Far too often we have seen in this Chamber the Welsh Government announce strategies and plans with no real deadlines or targets. This avoids scrutiny while claiming to take action.

Turning to an area of particular interest to me, and it's been mentioned already, and that's the access to good food for our young people. I welcome the fact that we have a system here in Wales that provides free school meals for those who need them, but I was concerned to see, as others have said, that 80 per cent of our children do not feel full after receiving free school meals—something we've heard several times in this Chamber recently. And it's right that the commissioner shines a light on this. The fact that these meals are free is not enough. We need to be ensuring that the food is healthy, nutritious and filling, ensuring our children are being provided with the food they need, and we need a consistent standard across all of Wales, and that isn't the case at the moment. Again, it would seem that this policy isn't delivering as intended. If we are going to do it, let's do it right.

The simple fact is, if we are tackle all angles of children and young people's needs, and address poverty, we need to be doing so in an efficient and effective way. We need the Government to work with the Children's Commissioner for Wales to set clear targets and measurable outcomes, as we've already heard, in tackling child poverty. Without them, how can the Welsh Government hope to improve the lives of the thousands of vulnerable children across Wales? I thank the children's commissioner for her report and for championing the needs of our young people, and I ask colleagues to support our amendments today.

I'm pleased to see that the children's commissioner's report identified mental health as a priority area for her work, because as I've mentioned a number of times now, ensuring prompt and effective mental health treatment for children is crucially important for the preventative agenda. The greater the delay in the system in terms of providing treatment, the more likely it is that problems will further deteriorate later in life. But it continues to be the sad reality that children in Wales have to suffer long waits for mental health services, which are far longer than for adults. At the moment, only 57 per cent of therapeutic interventions start within the 28 days following assessment by the local team for those under 18 years of age, as compared to 77 per cent for those over 18.

Unfortunately, when I've raised this issue in the past in the Senedd, I haven't received many assurances from Government that they have either the vision or the cross-portfolio provisions in place in order to tackle this issue. The report mentions turning rights into a reality, and there is no doubt that mental health provision is a fundamental right that isn't available for far too many of our children at the moment. So may I ask the Cabinet Secretary why the situation is so bad in terms of mental health services for children in Wales, and will the Government accept the commissioner's recommendation to develop a mental health action plan specifically for children and young people?

Finally, I want to refer specifically to additional learning needs, which is specifically addressed in the commissioner's report. She refers to a joint policy paper with the language commissioner, which is to be welcomed. I will talk of a few local examples. I have had a number of parents and children coming to surgeries or contacting me, having had a diagnosis or awaiting a diagnosis, and having to wait longer for children in the Welsh-medium sector. Also, the services and support aren't available for those who need that support through the medium of Welsh. This is a disgrace to the Government, that they are failing those vulnerable children and failing them by not providing support in their mother tongue.

In that report and the policy paper that was jointly written between the language commissioner and the children's commissioner, they make a number of calls on Government, so if I can repeat some of these, and if the Cabinet Secretary could respond: has the Government prioritised the work of organising a national review of the provision currently available through the medium of Welsh? Where is the Government in terms of doing this? Has the Government published a timetable to review additional learning needs through the medium of Welsh in a five-year cycle? Has the Government developed proposals on collaboration arrangements between local authorities in this area? Thank you very much.

I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice to reply to the debate.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Diolch, bawb. It has been a really important debate, and it is a recognition across this Chamber of the importance of our independent children's commissioner, and the importance of the annual report, certainly holding us to account, but us also learning from all the work she has undertaken with children and young people across the year. It's very clear from the debate that the Senedd shares a commitment to the rights of children and young people in Wales, and those rights continue to shape our work, because responsibility for children's rights sits with every member of the Cabinet. I'm proud of our tradition in Wales of putting children's rights at the centre of our decision making, and as I said, the children's commissioner's annual report helps us to achieve that.

Members have identified a number of important issues during the debate, and I'm just going to refer to a few in the time that I've got, Dirprwy Lywydd, but of course there will be a full response to the debate in due course from the Government. I wanted to start with Joel and his points on several recommendations about vaping. I think it is important. This is something, again, where we unite, I think, across this Chamber, recognising that the tobacco and vapes Bill will be the biggest public health intervention in a generation, tackling the harms of smoking, stopping vapes from being deliberately targeted at children. Together, these measures will help stop the next generation from being hooked on nicotine.

We supported, of course, the original Tobacco and Vapes Bill when it was laid in Parliament earlier this year, and we were pleased when it was included in the King's Speech in July. We fully support the planned Bill's aims now, working closely with Governments from across the UK, and that's, again, really important—that we now continue to develop the Bill with the new UK Government. A strengthened Bill will be reintroduced. But just to recognise that disposable vapes are clearly linked to the recent rise in vaping in children; 54 per cent of current vapers aged 11 to 17 in Great Britain used disposable vapes in 2024. So, our efforts to tackle youth vaping and reducing environmental impacts are crucial as well. 

We're raising, as you have done, key recommendations, and I'll move on to some of the other important points raised by Members. We're also recognising the recommendation that's been raised today about asylum seekers and refugees and access to services, particularly for unaccompanied children in Wales. In terms of action that will be taken to address the recommendations, I can respond now, of course, within my portfolio. We're committed to looking at the current support available for unaccompanied children and young people. We're exploring, for example, how a guardianship service could work in Wales, and looking at the resources we need to implement a system that could complement the statutory services that are already available for unaccompanied asylum seeker children in Wales. 

We're working, of course, on these issues, and it's not just for the Welsh Government—it's for the Wales strategic migration partnership with our local authorities, the Children's Society, Children's Legal Centre Wales, the Bevan Foundation, British Red Cross, all working with us to help address this. We are proud to take a child-first, migrant-second approach that upholds the best interests, rights and entitlements of unaccompanied asylum seeker children. I also recognise that we have responsibilities through our compliance with the United Nation Convention on the Rights of the Child. 

Of course, in terms of recognising what it can be to arrive in a foreign country after the trauma that children have been through, it's vitally important that we give them access to care and support, and that local authorities use all their discretion in order to provide that support. 

Will you take an intervention? 

I will. 

This is something that we've been raising and the Bevan Foundation have been loudly raising: the issue of no recourse to public funds as regards entitlement to free school meals. I've raised it with the Cabinet Secretary for Education. There still has been no action. Will you take action on this? Because the discretionary model with local authorities isn't working. 

Again, this is something where we would urge local authorities to use that discretion. The Cabinet Secretary for Education is fully on board with this. And I'm sure the children's commissioner herself is raising this with local government. It's important that it has been aired again today in the context of this report and these recommendations. But, again, our commitment is to progress that.

In terms of the points that have been raised by more than one Member today about children's access to food in schools, I think it's important that we recognise that we need to look—. And we've agreed; officials are engaging widely about the review of the healthy eating regulations and guidance. But the important thing is to engage children and young people in this. It's been raised, of course, around the views and experiences of children and young people in terms of nutritional standards in schools. Of course, it is crucially important that we look at that. 

I can't answer all of the questions and points fully today, but you will have the Government's response to the report in due course. But can I please thank Julie Morgan again for her contribution? I welcome the fact that you've set up a cross-party group to chair on Gypsies and Travellers, particularly looking at the needs of children and young people. Also, the children's commissioner is focused particularly on young people and education, because we know that improving attendance at school is a top priority.

Work is continuing to improve those rates of attendance. There is an improvement in attendance from Gypsy and Traveller young people. Many of you will know of the good practice in schools in your constituencies and communities. But, obviously, levels aren't what we would want them to be. That's about sharing good practice, youth and family engagement officers, youth workers, and also just again looking at the barriers faced by young people and engaging with those young people. So, we're establishing a Gypsy, Roma and Traveller stakeholder group—[Interruption.] I'll just finish this point. That's going to bring community members and policy makers together to hear views, not just from children and young people, but of course their carers as well.

Thank you very much. We're seven minutes into your response to the debate, but we're yet to hear anything about child poverty. Many Members have raised this during the debate, from across the Chamber, so I think we'd be in a good position to hear what the Government's response is in that regard.

I think some Members in the Chamber would also like to hear comments on other issues that they've raised during this debate, and I'm very glad to be able to do that, and particularly in response to the needs of Gypsy, Roma and Traveller children and young people. Because, also, that's something that I was going to follow on from my points in response to Julie Morgan—that this is crucially important in terms of our refreshed 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'. We've actually got a key goal in the refreshed plan on Gypsy, Roma and Traveller equity. And I'd like to thank the Local Government and Housing Committee—which I think, Gareth, you've sat on, and others—and say how important it is that that inquiry is looking at all of the issues around site provision and permanent accommodation.

Finally, I would say that—and give me some bearing as I've had interventions, Dirprwy Llywydd—our child poverty strategy sets out our long-term ambitions to tackle child poverty and to mitigate the worst impacts of poverty here in Wales, and how we will work across Government, and with partners, to maximise the work that we do, to maximise the impact of our levers in terms of our responsibilities, the levers available to us. Our targets for improving outcomes, as set out in our programme for government, form part of our national milestones—the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, of course, we report on that in our 'Well-being of Wales' report annually.

Yesterday, we had a child poverty conference, and I was pleased to share the publication of the child poverty strategy monitoring framework. This is only one of three mechanisms through which we progress on delivery of the child poverty strategy, being measured and reported once every three years. It's going to be used, the framework, to report on regular and robust population-level data on a range of child poverty indicators, provide insight on impact on the outcomes for children and young people. And I would very much like now, as we've had this particular evidence and expertise from Professor Rod Hick, a world expert on this, to share this more with you. [Interruption.] I think I have given way more than once.

The Cabinet Secretary is over the time she's allowed.

Finally, to say, what I'm so pleased about—and you must finally be glad to hear—is that, tomorrow, I'm meeting with the co-chairs of the UK Government child poverty taskforce. And I think that's the important point—is that, now, we can work together, with the new UK Government. They've set up a child poverty taskforce. They want to meet me tomorrow to hear what we're doing, but also for me to say to them what their powers, their responsibilities are. We want to work together to tackle child poverty. And can we thank the children's commissioner for her leadership in her role as an independent Children's Commissioner for Wales? Diolch yn fawr.

The proposal is to agree amendment 1. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There are objections. I will therefore defer voting under this item until voting time.

That brings us to voting time. Unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, I will move immediately to voting time. 

I first call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 26, no abstentions, 27 against. Therefore, amendment 1 is not agreed.

I now call for a vote on amendment 2, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 12, no abstentions, 41 against. Therefore, amendment 2 is not agreed.

I now call for a vote on the motion, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt.  Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 44, no abstentions, nine against. Therefore, the motion is agreed.

That brings today's proceedings to a close.