Y Cyfarfod Llawn - Y Bumed Senedd
Plenary - Fifth Senedd
04/03/2020Cynnwys
Contents
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) in the Chair.
Good afternoon, everybody.
Prynhawn da, bawb.
We start our Plenary session this afternoon with the first item on the agenda—questions to the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs. Question 1, Jack Sargeant.
Dechreuwn ar ein Cyfarfod Llawn y prynhawn yma gyda'r eitem gyntaf ar yr agenda—cwestiynau i Weinidog yr Amgylchedd, Ynni a Materion Gwledig. Cwestiwn 1, Jack Sargeant.
1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi'r diwydiant bwyd a diod yng ngogledd Cymru? OAQ55170
1. Will the Minister make a statement on how the Welsh Government is supporting the food and drink industry in north Wales? OAQ55170
Thank you. Welsh Government supports the growth of the food and drink industry across the whole of Wales. We've now achieved a turnover of £7.473 billion for the food and farming industry in Wales. This far exceeds the challenging target of achieving £7 billion we set ourselves and the sector back in 2014.
Diolch. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi twf y diwydiant bwyd a diod ledled Cymru gyfan. Rydym bellach wedi cyflawni trosiant o £7.473 biliwn i’r diwydiant bwyd a ffermio yng Nghymru. Mae hyn yn llawer uwch na'r targed heriol o £7 biliwn a osodwyd gennym i ni ein hunain a'r sector yn ôl yn 2014.
Thank you for that answer, Minister. As chair of the cross-party group on beer and pubs in Wales, I have recently undertaken a number of visits to independent breweries with Members from across the Chamber, and I look forward to working with many more Assembly Members to promote Welsh beer and cider within their constituencies. Minister, issues that have been raised with me include assistance in taking full advantage of unique opportunities to promote Welsh beers across the world—opportunities like the Rugby World Cup and the six nations, which coincides with Welsh beer week. And I have also had a number of breweries and brewers raise the issue of the future deposit-return scheme, which I know falls under the responsibility of the Deputy Minister. However, your department works directly with producers through the Welsh food and drinks cluster. So, Minister, can you assure me that your department is working closely with that of the Deputy Minister's, and the Minister for international relations, both to support and promote the Welsh brewing industry in the future?
Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Fel cadeirydd y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar gwrw a thafarndai yng Nghymru, bûm yn ymweld yn ddiweddar â nifer o fragdai annibynnol gydag Aelodau o bob rhan o’r Siambr, ac edrychaf ymlaen at weithio gyda llawer mwy o ACau i hyrwyddo cwrw a seidr Cymru yn eu hetholaethau. Weinidog, mae'r materion a gafodd eu dwyn i fy sylw yn cynnwys cymorth i fanteisio'n llawn ar gyfleoedd unigryw i hyrwyddo cwrw Cymru ledled y byd—cyfleoedd fel Cwpan Rygbi'r Byd a'r chwe gwlad, sy'n cyd-daro ag wythnos gwrw Cymru. Ac mae nifer o fragdai a bragwyr wedi dwyn cynllun dychwelyd blaendal yn y dyfodol i fy sylw, cynllun y gwn ei fod yn gyfrifoldeb i’r Dirprwy Weinidog. Fodd bynnag, mae eich adran yn gweithio'n uniongyrchol gyda chynhyrchwyr drwy glwstwr bwyd a diod Cymru. Felly, Weinidog, a allwch fy sicrhau bod eich adran yn gweithio'n agos ag adran y dirprwy Weinidog, a'r Gweinidog cysylltiadau rhyngwladol, i gefnogi a hyrwyddo diwydiant bragu Cymru yn y dyfodol?
Thank you. I was very pleased to visit Wrexham Lager with you in your capacity as the chair of the cross-party group on beer and pubs. And I think Wrexham Lager probably is a classic example of making the most of the opportunities, and I know when the Rugby World Cup was on in Japan, I think they had to send out extra resources on about three occasions because it was so popular out there. I can reassure you that my department works closely with other governmental departments. We work right across Government. You mentioned the deposit-return scheme. Work is developing on that. That's being taken forward as a joint project with both the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Northern Ireland Government.
Back in July we published the responses to an initial consultation on the proposals for a scheme covering Wales, Northern Ireland and England, and, again, it was overwhelmingly positive, the response that we received to that consultation. I'm also putting funding into the Advanced Manufacturing Research Centre in your own constituency in relation to decarbonisation in relation to the food and drink sector as a whole, and, obviously, reduced packaging is one area that we're particularly looking at.
Diolch i chi, ac roeddwn yn falch iawn o ymweld â Wrexham Lager gyda chi yn rhinwedd eich swydd fel cadeirydd y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar gwrw a thafarndai. Ac rwy'n credu bod Wrexham Lager yn enghraifft glasurol, mae’n debyg, o gwmni sy’n gwneud y mwyaf o'r cyfleoedd, a phan oedd Cwpan Rygbi'r Byd yn mynd rhagddo yn Japan, rwy'n credu eu bod wedi gorfod anfon cyflenwadau ychwanegol ar dri achlysur oherwydd ei fod mor boblogaidd allan yno. Gallaf eich sicrhau bod fy adran yn gweithio'n agos gydag adrannau eraill o’r Llywodraeth. Rydym yn gweithio ar draws y Llywodraeth. Fe sonioch chi am y cynllun dychwelyd blaendal. Mae gwaith yn datblygu ar hynny. Mae'n cael ei ddatblygu fel prosiect ar y cyd ag Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig a Llywodraeth Gogledd Iwerddon.
Yn ôl ym mis Gorffennaf, gwnaethom gyhoeddi'r ymatebion i ymgynghoriad cychwynnol ar y cynigion ar gyfer cynllun i Gymru, Gogledd Iwerddon a Lloegr, ac unwaith eto, roedd yr ymatebion a ddaeth i law i’r ymgynghoriad hwnnw yn gadarnhaol dros ben. Rwyf hefyd yn rhoi cyllid tuag at y Ganolfan Ymchwil Gweithgynhyrchu Uwch yn eich etholaeth ar gyfer datgarboneiddio mewn perthynas â'r sector bwyd a diod yn ei gyfanrwydd, ac yn amlwg, mae llai o ddeunydd pacio yn un maes rydym yn edrych arno’n benodol.
We could all have a brilliant banquet with the fine food and drink produce that emanates from Aberconwy. We have award-winning gins, wine, meat, seafood, cheese, chocolate and so much more on offer, so it just goes to show the incredible potential that food tourism has in Aberconwy, and, indeed, across north Wales. Now, according to 'The Food Tourism Action Plan for Wales 2015-2020', food tourism is about helping visitors to uncover our local culinary gems, not just leaving it to chance that they will find them by themselves. Five key things were identified, and interesting ideas were put forward, such as developing a consumer-facing food tourism website. Have you thought, Minister, of building on this by creating some food trails, and possibly on a constituency basis across Wales? Thank you.
Gallem i gyd gael gwledd wych gyda'r cynnyrch bwyd a diod da sy'n dod o Aberconwy. Mae gennym jin, gwin, cig, bwyd môr, caws, siocled a chymaint mwy i'w gynnig, cynnyrch sydd wedi ennill gwobrau, felly mae'n dangos y potensial anhygoel sydd i dwristiaeth bwyd yn Aberconwy, a ledled gogledd Cymru yn wir. Nawr, yn ôl y 'Cynllun Gweithredu Twristiaeth Bwyd i Gymru 2015-20', mae twristiaeth bwyd yn ymwneud â helpu ymwelwyr i ddatgelu ein trysorau coginio lleol, nid gadael i ymwelwyr ddod ar eu traws ar hap. Nodwyd pum peth allweddol, a chyflwynwyd syniadau diddorol, megis datblygu gwefan twristiaeth bwyd i gwsmeriaid. Weinidog, a ydych chi wedi meddwl am adeiladu ar hyn trwy greu llwybrau bwyd, a hynny ar sail etholaethau ledled Cymru o bosibl? Diolch.
We've certainly looked at food trails, and we've also looked at a wine trail, because, again, the wine industry in Wales is really booming, I would say; I think we've got now about 15 vineyards across Wales. So, we've certainly looked at a wine trail. I'm not sure that we've looked at food trails on a constituency by constituency basis. I have to say, though, in relation to food tourism—and you mentioned gin, and I presume you're referring to Aber Falls—I was in Aber Falls about two weeks ago, and they're building a brilliant visitor centre, where they're hoping to bring in other business, not just food and drink businesses, but other businesses also to work from there. So, food tourism I think offers many opportunities, not just in north Wales, but across the whole of Wales.
Rydym yn sicr wedi edrych ar lwybrau bwyd, ac rydym wedi edrych hefyd ar lwybr gwin, oherwydd, unwaith eto, mae'r diwydiant gwin yng Nghymru yn ffynnu o ddifrif, buaswn yn dweud; rwy'n credu bod gennym oddeutu 15 o winllannoedd ym mhob cwr o Gymru erbyn hyn. Felly, rydym yn sicr wedi edrych ar lwybr gwin. Nid wyf yn siŵr a ydym wedi edrych ar lwybrau bwyd fesul etholaeth. Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud serch hynny, mewn perthynas â thwristiaeth bwyd—ac fe sonioch chi am jin, a thybiaf eich bod yn cyfeirio at Aber Falls—roeddwn yn Aber Falls tua phythefnos yn ôl, ac maent yn adeiladu canolfan ymwelwyr wych, lle maent yn gobeithio dod â busnesau eraill i mewn, nid yn unig busnesau bwyd a diod, ond busnesau eraill hefyd i weithio oddi yno. Felly, rwy’n credu bod twristiaeth bwyd yn cynnig llawer o gyfleoedd, nid yn unig yng ngogledd Cymru, ond ledled Cymru gyfan.
2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ofyn i Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru sicrhau bod asesiad llawn o'r effaith amgylcheddol yn cael ei gynnal i ystyried y difrod i'r amgylchedd naturiol ar hyd morlin de Cymru o'r mwd y bwriedir ei ddadlwytho o adweithydd niwclear Hinkley Point i mewn i aber afon Hafren? OAQ55151
2. Will the Minister ask Natural Resources Wales to ensure that a full environmental impact assessment is undertaken to consider the damage to the natural environment along the south Wales coastline from the mud that is proposed to be dumped from Hinkley Point nuclear reactor into the Severn Estuary? OAQ55151
Natural Resources Wales is the appropriate authority and regulator, under the the Marine Works (Environmental Impact Assessment) Regulations 2007. It is for NRW to determine whether an environmental impact assessment is required. All applications for a marine licence are thoroughly and robustly assessed, to ensure proposed works do not impact the marine environment or human health.
Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru yw'r awdurdod a'r corff rheoleiddio priodol, o dan y Rheoliadau Gwaith Morol (Asesu Effeithiau Amgylcheddol) 2007. Mater i Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru yw penderfynu a oes angen asesiad effaith amgylcheddol. Mae pob cais am drwydded forol yn cael ei asesu'n drwyadl er mwyn sicrhau nad yw gwaith arfaethedig yn effeithio ar yr amgylchedd morol nac ar iechyd pobl.
I think what we have here is a failure of governance. And I wonder why—we are sat here—I wonder why we have a Government, in name anyway, if all we're going to do is put the responsibility on Natural Resources Wales. There are 780,000 tonnes of mud from outside a nuclear reactor that they want to dig up and dump—literally—on Wales, just outside of Cardiff, in the sea. We now know that there were accidents in the 1950s and 1960s, where radioactivity went into the estuary. And scientists tell me that there's a possibility that this radioactivity is still there. And yet—[Interruption.] From across the way, there are heckles, people are asking, 'What scientists?' Well, maybe you should speak to these scientists, because we are told that there are three kinds of testing that should have been done to this mud. Anywhere in the world, three types would have been done—mass, alpha, gamma spectrometry. Why is it that you've allowed Natural Resources Wales to not even do an environmental impact assessment last time? You're not going to insist upon one this time. I'm just staggered, standing here saying this. How on earth can you call yourself a Minister, how can you call yourself a Government, when you're going to allow this to happen, and let Wales literally be dumped on, with material that could very well be radioactive? Incredible.
Rwy'n credu mai'r hyn sydd gennym yma yw methiant llywodraethu. A tybed pam—rydym yn eistedd yma—tybed pam y mae gennym Lywodraeth, mewn enw beth bynnag, os mai'r cyfan a wnawn yw rhoi'r cyfrifoldeb i Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru. Maent am gloddio a dympio 780,000 tunnell o fwd o'r tu allan i adweithydd niwclear—yn llythrennol—ar Gymru, ychydig y tu allan i Gaerdydd, yn y môr. Gwyddom bellach fod damweiniau wedi bod yn y 1950au a'r 1960au, pan aeth ymbelydredd i mewn i'r aber. Ac mae gwyddonwyr yn dweud wrthyf ei bod hi’n bosibl fod yr ymbelydredd hwn yn dal i fod yno. Ac eto—. [Torri ar draws.] Mae heclo o’r ochr draw, a phobl yn gofyn, 'Pa wyddonwyr?' Wel, efallai y dylech chi siarad â'r gwyddonwyr hyn, oherwydd dywedir wrthym fod tri math o brawf y dylid bod wedi'u gwneud ar y mwd hwn. Mewn unrhyw ran o'r byd, byddai tri math o brawf wedi’u gwneud—màs, alffa, sbectrometreg gama. Pam eich bod chi wedi caniatáu i Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru beidio â gwneud asesiad effaith amgylcheddol hyd yn oed y tro diwethaf? Nid ydych yn mynd i fynnu un y tro hwn. Rwy’n syfrdan, yn sefyll yma'n dweud hyn. Sut ar y ddaear y gallwch chi alw'ch hun yn Weinidog, sut y gallwch chi alw'ch hunain yn Llywodraeth, a chaniatáu i hyn ddigwydd, a gadael iddynt, yn llythrennol, ddympio deunydd a allai’n hawdd fod yn ymbelydrol ar Gymru? Anhygoel.
I think it's really important to stress that no application has been submitted. And should a request be received, NRW will consult with those experts—of course they will—to consider if it's necessary, obviously, to inform its determination, and whether an EIA is required. I think it's also really important to stress, Deputy Presiding Officer, that a non-EIA approach does not mean a full assessment is not undertaken—. I think it's really important that people understand that. And before determining any application for a marine licence, NRW carries out a thorough assessment of the proposed activity, and that includes the consideration, as I said, of the need to protect the marine environment and human health, as required by the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009. And I reiterate: no marine licence application has been submitted to NRW at this time. The Welsh Ministers are the appeals body for marine licensing, so it's not appropriate to comment on projects that are subject to that application process.
Rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig iawn pwysleisio nad oes cais wedi'i gyflwyno. Ac os derbynnir cais, bydd CNC yn ymgynghori â'r arbenigwyr—wrth gwrs y byddant—i ystyried a oes ei angen i lywio ei benderfyniad, ac a oes angen asesiad effaith amgylcheddol. Rwy'n credu ei bod hefyd yn bwysig iawn pwysleisio, Ddirprwy Lywydd, nad yw hepgor asesiad effaith amgylcheddol yn golygu na wneir asesiad llawn. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn i bobl ddeall hynny. A chyn inni benderfynu ar unrhyw gais am drwydded forol, mae CNC yn cynnal asesiad trylwyr o'r gweithgaredd arfaethedig, ac fel y dywedais, mae hynny'n cynnwys ystyried yr angen i ddiogelu'r amgylchedd morol ac iechyd pobl, fel sy'n ofynnol o dan Ddeddf y Môr a Mynediad i’r Arfordir 2009. Ac rwy’n ailadrodd: ni chyflwynwyd cais am drwydded forol i CNC ar hyn o bryd. Gweinidogion Cymru yw'r corff apelio ar gyfer trwyddedau morol, felly nid yw'n briodol rhoi sylwadau ar brosiectau sy'n ddarostyngedig i'r broses ymgeisio honno.
Minister, I do believe we have to be led by the science, and that science accords with the accepted international standards. And we have no way of measuring if we move away from that, and just allow a decision on other factors. I think we need to strip out any sort of national battles here. The Severn estuary is managed as an estuary. There are dumping grounds on each side, in terms of the border that runs down the middle of the estuary, and it is managed as such. However, I would say this: I don't think EDF Energy and NRW did particularly well at phase 1 on communicating with the public, because that is very, very important. And when these bodies expect politicians to be responsible, and listen to their evidence, they should remember that they also need to communicate with the public. Because if we are backing them and their science, they need to be out there, as the people best equipped to have a public discussion. Because you do need a public discussion on something like this—it's bound to be controversial.
Weinidog, rwy'n credu bod yn rhaid i ni gael ein harwain gan y wyddoniaeth, a bod gwyddoniaeth yn cyd-fynd â'r safonau rhyngwladol derbyniol. Ac nid oes gennym unrhyw ffordd o fesur a ddylem symud oddi wrth hynny, a dim ond caniatáu penderfyniad ar sail ffactorau eraill. Rwy'n credu bod angen inni gael gwared ar unrhyw fath o frwydrau cenedlaethol yma. Mae aber yr Hafren yn cael ei rheoli fel aber. Ceir meysydd dympio ar bob ochr, o ran y ffin sy'n rhedeg i lawr canol yr aber, ac fe'i rheolir yn unol â hynny. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn ddweud hyn: nid wyf yn credu bod EDF Energy a Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru wedi gwneud yn arbennig o dda yng ngham 1 o ran cyfathrebu â'r cyhoedd, oherwydd mae hynny'n bwysig tu hwnt. A phan fydd y cyrff hyn yn disgwyl i wleidyddion fod yn gyfrifol, a gwrando ar eu tystiolaeth, dylent gofio bod angen iddynt gyfathrebu â'r cyhoedd hefyd. Oherwydd os ydym yn eu cefnogi hwy a'u gwyddoniaeth, mae angen iddynt fod allan yno, fel y bobl sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i gael trafodaeth gyhoeddus. Oherwydd mae angen trafodaeth gyhoeddus arnoch ar rywbeth fel hyn—mae'n rhwym o fod yn ddadleuol.
I don't disagree with anything that David Melding says. And I know NRW have developed a communications plan. I think you're right, there were lessons, certainly, to be learned from last time, and I do believe NRW have learned those lessons, and they have detailed the steps that they will take to consult and engage widely on projects. So, just to say, obviously, everybody—and that includes everybody in this Chamber—should put their views forward to NRW.
Nid wyf yn anghytuno ag unrhyw beth a ddywed David Melding. Ac rwy'n gwybod bod Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru wedi datblygu cynllun cyfathrebu. Rwy'n credu eich bod yn iawn, yn sicr roedd gwersi i'w dysgu o'r tro diwethaf, ac rwy'n credu bod Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru wedi dysgu'r gwersi hynny, ac maent wedi manylu ar y camau y byddant yn eu cymryd i ymgynghori ac ymgysylltu'n eang ar brosiectau. Felly, yn amlwg, dylai pawb—ac mae hynny'n cynnwys pawb yn y Siambr hon—gyflwyno eu safbwyntiau i CNC.
Thank you. We now turn to spokespeople's questions. And I call the party spokesperson for Plaid Cymru, Llyr Gruffydd.
Diolch. Trown yn awr at gwestiynau'r llefarwyr. A galwaf ar lefarydd Plaid Cymru, Llyr Gruffydd.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd. Gweinidog, fe ddywedoch chi wrth y Cynulliad yma, yn sgil y llifogydd a ddigwyddodd ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, eich bod chi wedi trefnu cyfarfod â chadeirydd a phrif weithredwr Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru, ac y byddai'r adnoddau sydd ar gael—boed yn adnoddau dynol neu'n adnoddau ariannol—ar frig agenda'r cyfarfod hwnnw. Allwch chi roi diweddariad i ni o'r trafodaethau yr ŷch chi wedi'u cael a'r hyn a gytunwyd yn y cyfarfod?
Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Minister, you told this Assembly, in light of the recent flooding a few weeks ago, that you had organised a meeting with the chair and chief executive of NRW, and that the resources available—be they human or financial resources—would be at the top of the agenda for that meeting. Can you give us an update on the discussion that you had and what was agreed at that meeting?
Yes. So, I met with the chair and chief executive of Natural Resources Wales yesterday and I think it's another opportunity, Deputy Presiding Officer, to pay tribute to the NRW staff who worked tirelessly, and are still working tirelessly, now for, it's probably getting on for a month now, isn't it, since we first had storm Ciara? We did discuss, obviously, the flooding in great detail. I think it took up probably three quarters of the meeting. There are clearly some issues around human resources. So, I think there's just over 300 staff who work in NRW on flooding. There are some vacancies still, and whilst we have seen a drop in the number of vacancies, there are still some vacancies that they are seeking to fill. In relation to funding, further funding was offered should they need it in the initial response to the clean-up. At the present time, they don't need that funding, but clearly that offer is still on the table.
Gallaf. Cyfarfûm â chadeirydd a phrif weithredwr Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru ddoe ac rwy'n meddwl fod hwn yn gyfle arall, Ddirprwy Lywydd, i dalu teyrnged i staff CNC a weithiodd yn ddiflino, ac sy'n dal i weithio'n ddiflino yn awr, ers yn agos i fis bellach, mae'n debyg, ers storm Ciara. Yn amlwg, fe fuom yn trafod y llifogydd yn drylwyr iawn. Rwy'n credu inni dreulio tri chwarter y cyfarfod yn gwneud hynny. Mae'n amlwg fod rhai materion yn codi ynghylch adnoddau dynol. Felly, rwy'n credu bod ychydig dros 300 o staff yn gweithio yn CNC ar lifogydd. Ceir rhai swyddi gwag o hyd, ac er ein bod wedi gweld gostyngiad yn nifer y swyddi gwag, maent yn dal i geisio llenwi rhai swyddi. O ran cyllid, cynigiwyd cyllid pellach pe bai ei angen arnynt yn yr ymateb cyntaf i'r gwaith glanhau. Ar hyn o bryd, nid oes angen y cyllid hwnnw arnynt, ond yn amlwg mae'r cynnig ar y bwrdd o hyd.
Wel, mae'n siomedig bod yna swyddi gwag yn bodoli oherwydd, wrth gwrs, maen nhw wedi cael eu dangos lan i fod, ar foment lle oedd angen yr holl weithwyr yna—a dwi innau'n ymuno â chi i dalu teyrnged i'r rhai a fuodd wrthi—ond ar y foment lle oedd angen iddyn nhw fod ar eu gorau, yn anffodus doedd yna ddim complement llawn o staff. Wrth gwrs, dwi wedi codi'n gyson gyda chi—rydych chi'n gwybod hyn—yr angen i sicrhau bod yr adnoddau craidd sydd ar gael i Gyfoeth Naturiol Cymru yn ddigonol, ac mai mater o godi pais yw hi'n aml iawn os oes rhywbeth yn digwydd ac wedyn mae'r arian yn dod. Mi ddylai fod yr arian yna o flwyddyn i flwyddyn i sicrhau bod y capasiti yn bodoli yn barhaol.
Mae nifer o ddioddefwyr y llifogydd nawr yn wynebu siwrne faith pan mae'n dod i adfer eu heiddo, a'r cam cyntaf mae'n debyg, ar ôl clirio y mès cychwynnol, fydd y sychu allan, ac mi fydd angen dadleithyddion a gwresogyddion diwydiannol er mwyn gwneud y gwaith yna. Ac, wrth gwrs, mi fydd yna gostau ynni a chostau gwresogi sylweddol yn dod yn sgil hynny. Dwi'n ymwybodol, wrth gwrs, fod y Llywodraeth ei hun yn cynnig elfen o gefnogaeth, ond dwi eisiau dod yn ôl at bwynt rwyf wedi codi gyda chi yn flaenorol, sef y ffaith ein bod ni yn gweld lefelau o gefnogaeth ar hap ar draws Cymru, lle mae dioddefwyr Cymru yn gweld gwahaniaethau sylweddol yn y gefnogaeth sydd ar gael iddyn nhw o wahanol gyfeiriadau, ac nid yn unig rhwng Cymru a Lloegr, sydd yn wir wrth gwrs, ond hyd yn oed oddi fewn i Gymru, lle rŷn ni'n gweld gwahaniaethau rhwng y gefnogaeth sydd ar gael yn ne Cymru o gymharu â gogledd Cymru.
Gaf i ofyn i chi a ydych chi'n gyfforddus mewn egwyddor â'r sefyllfa lle mae yna wahanol lefel o gefnogaeth ar gael i ddioddefwyr yn ddibynnol ar le maen nhw'n byw? Hynny yw, mae e'n rhyw fath o loteri cod post. Ac os nad ydych chi'n gyfforddus â'r egwyddor honno, yna beth ydych chi fel Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i weithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i sicrhau bod pawb, lle bynnag maen nhw yng Nghymru, yn cael yr un gefnogaeth y mae pawb yn ei haeddu?
It is disappointing that there are vacant posts, because, of course, they have been shown up at a moment when all that workforce was required—and I join with you in paying tribute to those who were working—but at that time when they needed to be at their very best, unfortunately they didn't have a full complement of staff. Now, I've consistently raised with you—and you will be aware of this—the need to ensure that core resources are available for NRW, and that they are sufficient. It's a matter of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, very often, if something happens and then the funding is made available. That funding should be in place year on year to ensure that the capacity is in place.
Many of those who have suffered floods are now facing a long journey when it comes to restoring their properties, and the first step, after cleaning up the initial mess, will be the dry-out process, and they will need dehumidifiers and industrial heaters in order to do that. And, of course, there will be energy and heating costs that could be very substantial as a result of that. I am aware, of course, that the Government itself is offering some support, but I want to return to a point that I have raised with you previously, namely this fact that we do see ad hoc levels of support across Wales, where those who suffer in Wales see very different levels of support available in different areas, and it's not just differences between England and Wales, which occur of course, but even within Wales, where we see differences in support in south Wales as opposed to north Wales, for example.
Can I ask you, in principle, are you comfortable with a position where there is a different level of support available for people dependent on where they live? It is a kind of postcode lottery. And if you're not comfortable with that principle, then what are you as a Government doing to work with local authorities to ensure that everyone, wherever they are in Wales, receives the same support that they deserve?
So, just to go back to your initial comments around NRW, as I said to you, I made it very clear yesterday that there was further funding, not just from—actually, very little from my portfolio; the majority of the funding that we are bringing forward comes from my colleague Julie James's portfolio. I've made sure that there's funding from my portfolio in relation to the clean-up operation and what's needed immediately, and NRW stressed that at the current time they did not need any additional funding. And certainly they are trying very hard to fill those vacancies, but you will appreciate that flood engineers, for instance, are not people that you can acquire very easily, but they have been working hard and we have seen a reduction in the number of vacancies that they did have, certainly since back in the autumn, when I first raised that concern with them.
In relation to the level of support, you will be aware that it doesn't matter where you live in Wales, the level of funding and support we are giving to households whether they're insured or not insured is absolutely the same. I assume that you are referring to the fact that Rhondda Cynon Taf council are also giving £500 to each household that's been flooded. It's a matter for each local authority whether they decide to give that additional funding. I know your next question is probably going to be, 'Well, some councils can afford it more easily than others.' I don't think any council can afford it easily. I think they've looked at their reserves, the level of reserves they've kept for a rainy day, if you pardon the pun, and clearly they've chosen to do that.
Felly, i fynd yn ôl at eich sylwadau cychwynnol ynghylch CNC, fel y dywedais wrthych, dywedais yn glir iawn ddoe fod arian ychwanegol, nid yn unig o—mewn gwirionedd, ychydig iawn ohono a ddaw o fy mhortffolio i; mae'r rhan fwyaf o'r cyllid rydym yn ei gyflwyno'n dod o bortffolio fy nghyd-Aelod Julie James. Rwyf wedi sicrhau bod cyllid o fy mhortffolio mewn perthynas â'r gwaith glanhau a'r hyn sydd ei angen ar unwaith, a phwysleisiodd CNC nad oedd angen arian ychwanegol arnynt ar hyn o bryd. Ac yn sicr maent yn ymdrechu'n galed iawn i lenwi'r swyddi gwag hynny, ond fe fyddwch yn sylweddoli nad yw peirianwyr llifogydd, er enghraifft, yn bobl y gallwch eu caffael yn hawdd iawn, ond maent wedi bod yn gweithio'n galed ac rydym wedi gweld gostyngiad yn nifer y swyddi gwag a oedd ganddynt, yn sicr ers yn ôl yn yr hydref, pan grybwyllais y pryder hwnnw wrthynt gyntaf.
Mewn perthynas â lefel y cymorth, fe fyddwch yn gwybod nad oes ots ble rydych chi'n byw yng Nghymru, mae lefel y cyllid a'r gefnogaeth a roddwn i aelwydydd, heb yswiriant neu fel arall, yn hollol yr un fath. Rwy'n tybio eich bod yn cyfeirio at y ffaith bod cyngor Rhondda Cynon Taf hefyd yn rhoi £500 i bob aelwyd sydd wedi dioddef llifogydd. Mater i bob awdurdod lleol yw penderfynu a ydynt am roi'r arian ychwanegol hwnnw ai peidio. Rwy'n gwybod mai eich cwestiwn nesaf fydd, 'Wel, gall rhai cynghorau ei fforddio'n haws nag eraill.' Nid wyf yn credu y gall unrhyw gyngor ei fforddio'n hawdd. Rwy'n credu eu bod wedi edrych ar eu cronfeydd wrth gefn, faint o arian wrth gefn a gadwyd ganddynt ar gyfer diwrnod glawog, os maddeuwch yr ymadrodd, ac yn amlwg maent wedi dewis gwneud hynny.
Well, you haven't answered my question because I asked whether you were comfortable with the principle that people were receiving different levels of support based on where they were in Wales, and what you were doing to work with local authorities to see if you could bring their level of commitment up to where it should be. You didn't address that, but there we are, maybe you'll do so in a moment.
Wel, nid ydych wedi ateb fy nghwestiwn oherwydd fe ofynnais a oeddech chi'n gyfforddus â'r egwyddor fod pobl yn cael gwahanol lefelau o gymorth yn seiliedig ar ble roeddent yng Nghymru, a beth oeddech chi'n ei wneud i weithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i weld a allech godi lefel eu hymrwymiad i ble dylai fod. Ni wnaethoch ateb hynny, ond dyna ni, efallai y gwnewch hynny mewn munud.
Mi fues i ddoe mewn cyfarfod o'r grŵp trawsbleidiol ar goetiroedd, coedwigaeth a phren ac mi dynnwyd sylw at y ffaith mai un o'r coed sydd â rôl fwyaf allweddol i'w chwarae pam fo'n dod i daclo llifogydd yw coed ynn, oherwydd y lefelau uchel o ddŵr sy'n cael eu dal gan wreiddiau y math arbennig yna o goeden.
Nawr, wrth gwrs, rŷn ni'n gwybod bod yna lawer o goed ynn yn marw ar hyn o bryd oherwydd clefyd coed ynn. Ond, ar yr un pryd, rwy hefyd yn deall nad yw'r grŵp strategol ar glefyd coed ynn wedi cwrdd ers mis Gorffennaf y llynedd. Felly, mae yna bron i naw mis ers i'r grŵp yna ddod at ei gilydd. Nawr, o gofio pwysigrwydd coed ynn o ran mynd i'r afael â phroblemau llifogydd ond hefyd, yn bwysig iawn, y risg i ddiogelwch y cyhoedd o fod yn gweld coed ynn yn dymchwel ac yn marw ac yn disgyn, pam nad yw'r grŵp yna wedi cwrdd ers cyhyd? Pa mor o ddifrif mae'r Llywodraeth yn cymryd y sefyllfa clefyd coed ynn, a beth, yn wir, yw'r camau nesaf rŷch chi am eu cymryd o ran mynd i'r afael â'r clefyd hwnnw?
Yesterday I attended a meeting of the cross-party group on woodlands, forestry and timber, and attention was drawn to the fact that one of the trees that has the biggest role in tackling flooding was the particular strain of tree that is used to capture floodwaters.
Now, we know very well that very many of these trees are dying because of ash tree disease. But I now know that the project board working on that disease in trees hasn't met for very many months. Given the importance of ash in terms of addressing flood, and very importantly in terms of the risk to public safety in seeing these trees dying and falling, why hasn't that group met for so long? How seriously is the Government taking ash dieback disease and what are the next steps that you will take in terms of tackling that particular disease?
I will have to write to the Member with an update on the last meeting of the ash dieback disease group, because I don't have those figures to hand.
In relation to 'am I comfortable?' I don't really think that's a matter for me. If a local authority wants to give extra support to a household that's been traumatised by flooding, who am I to say that that local authority shouldn't do that? I think, certainly at the flood summit that the First Minister convened in recess—both myself and my colleague Julie James were there—there were quite a few representatives from a variety of local authorities from right across Wales; certainly, the Welsh Local Government Association leader, Andrew Morgan, was there, who obviously is the leader of Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council. They were very grateful for the funding that was given from Welsh Government, but I do think it is a matter for each local authority. If they choose to support their residents in that way, well, that's a matter for them, not for me.
Bydd yn rhaid imi ysgrifennu at yr Aelod gyda'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am gyfarfod diwethaf y grŵp clefyd coed ynn, gan nad yw'r ffigurau hynny gennyf wrth law.
Mewn perthynas ag 'a ydw i'n gyfforddus?', nid wyf yn meddwl bod hwnnw'n fater i mi mewn gwirionedd. Os yw awdurdod lleol am roi cymorth ychwanegol i aelwyd sydd wedi dioddef yn sgil llifogydd, pwy wyf fi i ddweud na ddylai'r awdurdod lleol wneud hynny? Yn sicr yn yr uwchgynhadledd ar lifogydd a gynhaliwyd gan y Prif Weinidog yn ystod y toriad—roeddwn i a fy nghyd-Aelod Julie James yno—roedd cryn nifer o gynrychiolwyr o amryw o awdurdodau lleol o bob cwr o Gymru yn bresennol; yn sicr, roedd arweinydd Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, Andrew Morgan, yno, ac ef wrth gwrs yw arweinydd Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf. Roeddent yn ddiolchgar iawn am yr arian a roddwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ond rwy'n credu mai mater i bob awdurdod lleol ydyw. Os ydynt yn dewis cefnogi eu trigolion yn y ffordd honno, wel, mater iddynt hwy yw hynny, nid i mi.
Conservative spokesperson, Andrew R.T. Davies.
Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Andrew R.T. Davies.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Minister, at the moment, all the news seems to be about coronavirus, and rightly so, and the concerns that Government are addressing through their various summits and meetings. Your department has a critical role to play, especially in the farm support system, and this is a critical period of time, with the single farm payment application window now open and closing on 15 May. Many applications for calf passports, for example, are very time-sensitive—have to be in by a certain date, as do grant applications.
What discussions have you had within the department about, if, as is forecast, there could be as much as a 20 per cent absentee rate because of sickness in departments and work places? Have you modelled that into the way you will handle the applications around the single farm payment window, and other important grant applications, as well as inspections, because, otherwise, if force majeure isn't a consideration, many businesses—rural businesses—that depend on these application windows could fall foul of the system?
Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Weinidog, ar hyn o bryd, mae'n ymddangos bod yr holl newyddion yn ymwneud â'r coronafeirws, a hynny'n briodol, a'r pryderon y mae'r Llywodraeth yn mynd i'r afael â hwy drwy eu hamrywiol uwchgynadleddau a chyfarfodydd. Mae gan eich adran ran hanfodol i'w chwarae, yn enwedig yn y system gymorth i ffermydd, ac mae hwn yn gyfnod tyngedfennol, gyda'r cyfnod ymgeisio ar gyfer y taliad sengl bellach ar agor ac yn cau ar 15 Mai. Mae llawer o geisiadau am basbortau lloi, er enghraifft, yn sensitif iawn i amser—yn gorfod bod i mewn erbyn dyddiad penodol, fel y mae ceisiadau am grantiau.
Pa drafodaethau a gawsoch yn yr adran ynglŷn â'r sefyllfa pe bai'r gyfradd absenoldeb gymaint ag 20 y cant, fel a ragwelir, oherwydd salwch mewn adrannau a gweithleoedd? A ydych chi wedi modelu hynny mewn perthynas â'r ffordd y byddwch yn ymdrin â cheisiadau cyfnod talu'r taliad sengl, a cheisiadau grantiau pwysig eraill, yn ogystal ag archwiliadau, oherwydd, fel arall, os nad yw force majeure yn ystyriaeth, gallai llawer o fusnesau—busnesau gwledig—sy'n dibynnu ar y cyfnodau ymgeisio hyn fethu cydymffurfio â'r drefn?
Well, clearly, this is a piece of work that is being done right across Government. We had an additional Cabinet meeting this morning specifically on coronavirus, and every department obviously is looking at the impact of the disease, and, as you say, my department—you're referring to obviously the internal workings of my department, but we're looking at it right across Government. Clearly, a lot of our staff can work from home, which is helpful if they need to self-isolate, et cetera, but we are going to have to look at those who can't do their job from home, obviously, and inspections is clearly one.
This will be something that we will continually start to work up now we've seen some of the projected figures and the reasonably worst scenario. So, this is an ongoing piece of work. We'll have to be very flexible. It's the same for this Chamber, isn't it? If 20 per cent or more of us are unable to attend the Senedd sittings, obviously business will be affected. So, this is something that we're looking at right across Government, and I'm sure the Commission are too.
Wel, yn amlwg, mae hwn yn waith sy'n cael ei wneud ar draws y Llywodraeth. Cawsom gyfarfod Cabinet ychwanegol y bore yma ar y coronafeirws yn benodol, ac yn amlwg, mae pob adran yn edrych ar effaith y clefyd, ac fel y dywedwch, mae fy adran i—rydych yn cyfeirio, wrth gwrs, at weithrediadau mewnol fy adran, ond rydym yn edrych arno ar draws y Llywodraeth. Yn amlwg, gall llawer o'n staff weithio o gartref, sy'n ddefnyddiol os oes angen iddynt hunanynysu ac ati, ond bydd yn rhaid inni edrych ar y rhai na allant wneud eu gwaith o gartref, ac mae archwiliadau'n un ohonynt, wrth gwrs.
Bydd hyn yn rhywbeth y byddwn yn dechrau gweithio arno'n barhaus gan ein bod bellach wedi gweld rhai o'r ffigurau rhagamcanol a'r sefyllfa waethaf yn gymharol. Felly, mae hwn yn waith sy'n mynd rhagddo. Bydd yn rhaid inni fod yn hyblyg iawn. Mae'r un fath ag ar gyfer y Siambr hon, onid yw? Os bydd 20 y cant neu fwy ohonom yn methu mynychu sesiynau'r Senedd, mae'n amlwg yr effeithir ar ein gwaith. Felly, mae hyn yn rhywbeth rydym yn edrych arno ar draws y Llywodraeth, ac rwy'n siŵr bod y Comisiwn yn gwneud hynny hefyd.
I'm grateful for that answer, and I appreciate we're very much in the foothills at the moment, because the condition is obviously unfolding before us, but, for many rural businesses, there are very stiff penalties and sanctions if you don't hit those dates, especially with your application for single farm payment support. I use a very simple description as well about calf passports—if it's not registered within 28 days and processed, obviously then the animal is just discarded for human consumption, it is. And so, I'd be grateful, when you're in possession of better information—better-quality information, if you like, which could give indications of what measures you're putting in place to deal with maybe missed deadlines and worst-case scenarios so that people can have confidence that they will not be penalised because it is through no fault of their own—. Also, could I understand from you, Minister, how your department is interacting with the food supply chain? Because, again, if you look at the forecast ahead, with a 20 per cent absentee rate because of illness and the condition unfolding—and the peak months are May and June, we're told by the medical professionals—what work is the Welsh Government doing with food producers—and processors, importantly—to make sure that the food supply chain here in Wales is robust, and ultimately can deliver into shops and into the catering establishments that people require on a day-to-day basis?
Rwy'n ddiolchgar am yr ateb hwnnw, ac rwy'n derbyn mai megis dechrau y mae hyn, oherwydd mae'r sefyllfa'n amlwg yn datblygu ger ein bron, ond i lawer o fusnesau gwledig, mae cosbau llym iawn os na fyddwch yn cydymffurfio â'r dyddiadau, yn enwedig gyda'ch cais am gymorth y taliad sengl. Rwy'n defnyddio enghraifft syml iawn yn ymwneud â phasbortau lloi—os nad yw wedi'i gofrestru o fewn 28 diwrnod a'i brosesu, ni ellir defnyddio'r anifail i'w fwyta gan bobl. Ac felly, buaswn yn ddiolchgar, pan fydd gennych wybodaeth well—gwybodaeth o ansawdd gwell, os mynnwch, a allai roi syniad o ba fesurau rydych yn eu rhoi ar waith i ymdopi â methiant i ymgeisio o fewn yr amser a senarios gwaethaf fel y gall pobl gael hyder na chânt eu cosbi am nad yw'n fai arnynt hwy—. Hefyd, a wnewch chi ddweud wrthyf, Weinidog, sut y mae eich adran yn rhyngweithio â'r gadwyn cyflenwi bwyd? Oherwydd, unwaith eto, os edrychwch ar y rhagolygon, gyda chyfradd o 20 y cant yn absennol oherwydd salwch a'r sefyllfa sy'n datblygu—a'r misoedd brig yw mis Mai a mis Mehefin, yn ôl yr hyn a ddywedir wrthym gan y gweithwyr meddygol proffesiynol—pa waith y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud gyda chynhyrchwyr bwyd—a phroseswyr, yn bwysig—i sicrhau bod y gadwyn cyflenwi bwyd yma yng Nghymru yn ddiogel, ac y gall, yn y pen draw, gyflenwi i siopau ac i sefydliadau arlwyo fel y bydd pobl ei angen o ddydd i ddydd?
If I can take your first point first, I think we have to have that flexibility and I think Julie James's portfolio is a classic example of how you have to have that flexibility, and something we've done in flooding and I think—. I probably may get a question on this later, but Rhianon Passmore certainly raised it with the First Minister yesterday and that was about, if a local authority is collecting flood-damaged furniture, for instance, from people's homes, would that be counted against their recycling targets? And the First Minister and the Minister for Housing and Local Government made it very clear that there will be flexibility around that, and I think it will be the same now. As this continues to unfold, we're going to have to have that flexibility, and, again, working with, obviously, food processors, food producers, that is clearly something we're going to have to work on. It's also—. I've been asked a question now about do companion animals, for instance, carry coronavirus and the short answer is: at the moment, we have no evidence of that, but clearly we need to keep a watching eye on that. So, there is so much early work that is now having to be accelerated, I think, in light of the action plan that came out for the four countries yesterday, et cetera.
Os caf gymryd eich pwynt cyntaf yn gyntaf, rwy'n credu bod yn rhaid i ni gael yr hyblygrwydd hwnnw ac rwy'n credu bod portffolio Julie James yn enghraifft glasurol o sut y mae'n rhaid i chi gael yr hyblygrwydd, a rhywbeth rydym wedi'i wneud ym maes llifogydd ac rwy'n meddwl—. Mae'n debyg y caf gwestiwn ar hyn yn nes ymlaen, ond cododd Rhianon Passmore hyn gyda'r Prif Weinidog ddoe a gofynnodd, os yw awdurdod lleol yn casglu dodrefn a ddifrodwyd, er enghraifft, o gartrefi pobl, a fyddai hynny'n cyfrif yn erbyn eu targedau ailgylchu? A dywedodd y Prif Weinidog a'r Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol yn glir iawn y bydd hyblygrwydd ynglŷn â hynny, ac rwy'n credu y bydd hi'r un fath yn awr. Wrth i hyn barhau i ddatblygu, bydd yn rhaid inni gael yr hyblygrwydd hwnnw, ac unwaith eto, drwy weithio â phroseswyr bwyd, cynhyrchwyr bwyd, mae hynny'n amlwg yn rhywbeth y bydd yn rhaid inni weithio arno. Mae hefyd—. Gofynnwyd i mi yn awr a yw anifeiliaid anwes, er enghraifft, yn cario coronafeirws a'r ateb byr yw: ar hyn o bryd, nid oes gennym dystiolaeth o hynny, ond mae'n amlwg fod angen inni gadw llygad ar hynny. Felly, mae cymaint o waith cynnar sy'n rhaid ei wneud yn gyflymach yn awr, rwy'n meddwl, yng ngoleuni'r cynllun gweithredu a ddaeth allan ar gyfer y pedair gwlad ddoe, ac ati.
Given, obviously, we've talked extensively in this Chamber about nitrate vulnerable zones here, and the Government regulations around NVZs, are you in a position to say whether the regulations, as you envisage them, will be tabled before the end of this term—prior to Easter, obviously? Because, again, not wishing to be alarmist, but, with such major change in the rules and regulations, if the coronavirus does spread out as envisaged, with massive implications over the help and support that might be there—we're talking, as I said, about 20 per cent of the workforce being off at any one time—is that really a sensible time to be bringing forward such major changes? I can hear some Labour backbenchers saying 'yes'. Well, obviously that's the view that they might have, but, ultimately, if you're on the receiving end of these regulations and rule changes as envisaged, you're going to need quite a bit of help and support to (a) understand them, (b) implement them, and (c) and not fall foul of the rules and end up in court because of them. So, I ask you: are those regulations anticipated to be with us before Easter, and, if the coronavirus does unfold as projected, would it be sensible now to delay the implementation of such regulations until we're in a more robust position to make sure that help and support can be put in place so people don't fall foul of the rules and regulations?
O ystyried, yn amlwg, ein bod wedi siarad yn helaeth yn y Siambr hon am barthau perygl nitradau, a rheoliadau'r Llywodraeth ynghylch parthau perygl nitradau, a ydych mewn sefyllfa i ddweud a fydd y rheoliadau, fel rydych yn eu rhagweld, yn cael eu cyflwyno cyn diwedd y tymor hwn—cyn y Pasg? Oherwydd, unwaith eto, nid wyf am godi bwganod, ond gyda'r fath newid mawr yn y rheolau a'r rheoliadau, os yw'r coronafeirws yn ymledu fel y rhagwelir, gyda goblygiadau enfawr o ran y cymorth a'r gefnogaeth a allai fod yno—rydym yn siarad, fel y dywedais, am 20 y cant o'r gweithlu'n absennol ar unrhyw adeg—a yw honno'n adeg synhwyrol i gyflwyno newidiadau mor fawr? Gallaf glywed rhai ar feinciau cefn Llafur yn dweud 'ydy'. Wel, mae'n amlwg mai dyna yw eu barn hwy, ond yn y pen draw, os ydych yn mynd i orfod cyflawni'r newidiadau hyn i'r rheolau a'r rheoliadau fel y rhagwelir, bydd angen cryn dipyn o gymorth a chefnogaeth arnoch i (a) eu deall, (b) eu gweithredu, ac (c) pi beidio â thramgwyddo'r rheolau a gorfod mynd i'r llys o'u herwydd. Felly, rwy'n gofyn i chi: a ragwelir yr bydd y rheoliadau gyda ni cyn y Pasg, ac os yw'r coronafeirws yn datblygu fel y rhagwelir, a fyddai'n synhwyrol yn awr i ohirio gweithredu rheoliadau o'r fath nes ein bod mewn sefyllfa gadarnach i wneud yn siŵr fod modd rhoi cymorth a chefnogaeth ar waith fel nad yw pobl yn tramgwyddo'r rheolau a'r rheoliadau?
They will be tabled before the end of this term.
Byddant yn cael eu cyflwyno cyn diwedd y tymor hwn.
3. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am gynlluniau i gynyddu nifer y coed a gaiff eu plannu ledled Cymru? OAQ55144
3. Will the Minister provide an update on plans to increase tree planting across Wales? OAQ55144
Thank you. I'm committed to increasing our rate of tree planting to 2,000 hectares per year. We're investing £4.5 million to begin establishing a national forest. This will accelerate the rate of tree planting in Wales alongside other policies, such as the Glastir woodland creation scheme.
Diolch. Rwy'n ymrwymedig i gynyddu ein cyfradd plannu coed i 2,000 hectar y flwyddyn. Rydym yn buddsoddi £4.5 miliwn i ddechrau sefydlu coedwig genedlaethol. Bydd hyn yn cyflymu'r broses o blannu coed yng Nghymru ochr yn ochr â pholisïau eraill, megis cynllun creu coetiroedd Glastir.
Of course, we as individuals could do something more as well, and plant trees in our own gardens. I also want to stress the importance of trees in reducing pollution, flooding and acting as carbon stores. What support is the Welsh Government giving to agroforestry, which would help with flood mitigation, reduce flash flooding and reduce overland flows?
Wrth gwrs, gallem ni fel unigolion wneud rhagor hefyd, a phlannu coed yn ein gerddi ein hunain. Rwyf am bwysleisio pwysigrwydd coed i leihau llygredd a llifogydd a gweithredu fel storfeydd carbon. Pa gefnogaeth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei rhoi i amaeth-goedwigaeth a fyddai'n helpu i liniaru llifogydd, lleihau fflachlifoedd a lleihau llifddwr dros dir?
Thank you. I recognise the wide-ranging benefits that planting trees, including for agroforestry, can bring. Increasing the woodland cover in Wales is a core part of our low-carbon delivery plan to tackle climate change and, as you say, it can also address poor air quality and flooding issues. One of the key priorities of the draft national strategy for flood and coastal erosion risk management in Wales is to deliver more natural interventions and catchment approaches to help improve environmental resilience and I think one thing that we have seen over the past month is you can't just keep building higher walls and using more concrete. We need to look at those natural interventions.
Our sustainable management scheme has also supported collaborative landscape-scale projects, and that takes action to improve the resilience of our natural resources across Wales and those include flood risk management on the River Clwyd, increasing resilience within our iconic Welsh woodlands in sites right across Wales, and nature-based solutions in the Dyfi catchment, and also revitalising our precious peatland and upland habitats throughout Wales. And I think you made a very important point at the beginning, Mike Hedges, that we can all play a part—if we're able to—by planting trees in our gardens.
Diolch. Rwy'n cydnabod y manteision pellgyrhaeddol a ddaw yn sgil plannu coed, gan gynnwys ar gyfer amaeth-goedwigaeth. Mae cynyddu gorchudd coetir yng Nghymru yn rhan greiddiol o'n cynllun cyflawni carbon isel i fynd i'r afael â newid hinsawdd ac fel y dywedwch, gall fynd i'r afael â phroblemau ansawdd aer gwael a llifogydd hefyd. Un o brif flaenoriaethau'r strategaeth genedlaethol ddrafft ar gyfer rheoli perygl llifogydd ac erydu arfordirol yng Nghymru yw sicrhau mwy o ymyriadau naturiol a dulliau'n seiliedig ar dalgylchoedd i helpu i wella gwytnwch amgylcheddol a chredaf mai un peth a welsom dros y mis diwethaf yw na allwch ddal ati i adeiladu waliau uwch a defnyddio mwy o goncrit. Mae angen inni edrych ar yr ymyriadau naturiol hynny.
Mae ein cynllun rheoli cynaliadwy hefyd wedi cefnogi prosiectau cydweithredol ar raddfa'r dirwedd, ac mae'n rhoi camau ar waith i wella gwytnwch ein hadnoddau naturiol ledled Cymru ac mae'r rheini'n cynnwys rheoli perygl llifogydd ar afon Clwyd, cynyddu gwytnwch ein coetiroedd eiconig yng Nghymru ar safleoedd ledled Cymru, ac atebion sy'n seiliedig ar natur yn nalgylch Dyfi, a hefyd adfywio ein mawndiroedd a'n cynefinoedd gwerthfawr ar yr ucheldir ym mhob rhan o Gymru. Ac rwy'n credu eich bod wedi gwneud pwynt pwysig iawn ar y dechrau, Mike Hedges, fod modd i bawb ohonom chwarae rhan—os gallwn—drwy blannu coed yn ein gerddi.
I think Mike Hedges makes a really good point to bring this question up, because they are so important, and I really respect the 2020 target that the Welsh Government have of 2,000 hectares of trees to be planted per year. However, I am concerned that, in tandem with that, and, as a response to a freedom of information request submitted by the Welsh Conservatives, we established that, across the four NRW managed sites, where onshore windfarms are located, a total of 1,938,400 trees have been felled, which is the equivalent of 1,155 hectares of trees being lost. So, essentially, there's a hole in the bottom of this bucket, isn't there—as you are planting them, they're being felled. So, Minister, can you just give us some idea of the rationale behind that? And will you also then be committed to increasing your rate of replanting, given that NRW are felling almost as fast as Welsh Government are trying to plant?
Rwy'n credu bod Mike Hedges yn gwneud pwynt da iawn wrth ofyn y cwestiwn hwn, oherwydd maent mor bwysig, ac rwy'n parchu'n fawr y targed 2020 sydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i blannu 2,000 hectar o goed bob blwyddyn. Ond ochr yn ochr â hynny, ac fel ymateb i gais rhyddid gwybodaeth a gyflwynwyd gan y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, fe wnaethom sefydlu, ar draws y pedwar safle a reolir gan CNC, lle lleolwyd ffermydd gwynt ar y tir, fod cyfanswm o 1,938,400 o goed wedi'u cwympo, sy'n cyfateb i golli 1,155 hectar o goed. Felly, yn y bôn, mae twll yng ngwaelod y bwced, onid oes—wrth i chi eu plannu, cânt eu cwympo. Felly, Weinidog, a allwch roi rhyw syniad inni o'r rhesymeg y tu ôl i hynny? Ac a wnewch chi ymrwymo felly i gynyddu eich cyfradd ailblannu, o gofio bod CNC yn cwympo bron mor gyflym ag y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ceisio plannu?
I'm not aware of the specific reasons around the figure that Angela Burns refers to, but, certainly, replanting is just as important for me as new sites as well. But I'll certainly look into that figure and provide the Member with a response as to why that is the case. But NRW are very aware of the target that we have, our need to reach it. I don't think 2,000 hectares is overly ambitious. I think we really should be able to do that, and, clearly, with the national forest as well, I'm very hopeful that that figure will be reached.
Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o'r rhesymau penodol dros y ffigur y mae Angela Burns yn cyfeirio ato, ond yn sicr, mae ailblannu yr un mor bwysig i mi ag yw safleoedd newydd. Ond byddaf yn sicr o edrych ar y ffigur hwnnw a rhoi ateb i'r Aelod pam y mae hynny'n digwydd. Ond mae CNC yn ymwybodol iawn o'r targed sydd gennym, ein hangen i'w gyrraedd. Nid wyf yn credu bod 2,000 hectar yn rhy uchelgeisiol. Rwy'n credu y dylem allu gwneud hynny, ac yn amlwg, gyda'r goedwig genedlaethol hefyd, rwy'n obeithiol iawn y cyrhaeddir y ffigur hwnnw.
Minister, my question's basically the same as Angela's. Under the freedom of information request, more than 1.5 million trees have been felled on NRW land to make way for windfarms across Wales. My second part would be: what measures does your Government take to mitigate the loss of such vast swathes of the ecosystem, and how can you justify one against the other?
Weinidog, yr un yw fy nghwestiwn i ag un Angela yn y bôn. O dan y cais rhyddid gwybodaeth, mae mwy na 1.5 o goed wedi'u cwympo ar dir CNC i wneud lle i ffermydd gwynt ledled Cymru. Fy ail ran fyddai: pa gamau y mae eich Llywodraeth yn eu cymryd i liniaru colli darnau mor eang o'r ecosystem, a sut y gallwch gyfiawnhau un yn erbyn y llall?
So, just to add to my answer to Angela Burns, it is important that NRW recognise the need for replanting, and clearly there are diseased trees that we have to also make sure that we are able then to replant after a certain time has passed. I think tree planting is a long-term aspiration. I've been the first to hold my hands up and say we are not planting a sufficient number of trees, for a variety of reasons, but we are committed to doing better in future, so that we can tackle biodiversity and climate change emergencies, and deliver those multiple benefits that Mike Hedges referred to in his initial questions.
I ategu fy ateb i Angela Burns, mae'n bwysig fod CNC yn cydnabod yr angen i ailblannu, ac yn amlwg ceir coed heintiedig y mae'n rhaid i ni hefyd wneud yn siŵr ein bod yn gallu ailblannu yn eu lle ar ôl i amser penodol fynd heibio. Rwy'n credu bod plannu coed yn ddyhead hirdymor. Fi yw'r cyntaf i gyfaddef nad ydym yn plannu digon o goed, am amryw o resymau, ond rydym wedi ymrwymo i wneud yn well yn y dyfodol, fel y gallwn fynd i'r afael ag argyfyngau'n gysylltiedig â bioamrywiaeth a newid hinsawdd, a darparu'r manteision lluosog y cyfeiriodd Mike Hedges atynt yn ei gwestiynau cychwynnol.
Minister, you identified disease as one of the reasons we're felling. Obviously, in the Afan valley, we saw the first of the diseased trees being felled, and they're still being felled up there now. Replanting is crucial. Therefore, will you have discussions with NRW to ensure that their plans for replanting are implemented as quickly as possible? Because not only does it affect the trees, but also it affects industry and businesses that benefit from the mountain biking up in the Afan valley, which are losing customers because of the felling.
Weinidog, nodwyd clefyd gennych fel un o'r rhesymau pam rydym yn cwympo coed. Yn amlwg, yng nghwm Afan, gwelsom y rhai cyntaf o'r coed heintiedig yn cael eu cwympo, ac maent yn dal i gael eu cwympo yno yn awr. Mae ailblannu yn hollbwysig. Felly, a wnewch chi gynnal trafodaethau gydag CNC i sicrhau bod eu cynlluniau ailblannu yn cael eu gweithredu cyn gynted â phosibl? Oherwydd nid yn unig y mae'n effeithio ar y coed, ond mae hefyd yn effeithio ar ddiwydiant a busnesau sy'n elwa o'r beicio mynydd yng nghwm Afan, sy'n colli cwsmeriaid oherwydd y cwympo.
Yes, certainly I will have that conversation with NRW. I think—the other quarter of the meeting that we had yesterday, when we weren't talking about flooding, we were talking about timber and tree planting, et cetera. So, they are very aware of that. And the need to plant the right tree in the right place—that's also very important.
Gwnaf, yn sicr fe gaf y sgwrs honno ag CNC. Rwy'n credu—treuliwyd chwarter arall y cyfarfod a gawsom ddoe, pan nad oeddem yn sôn am lifogydd, yn siarad am bren a phlannu coed ac ati. Felly, maent yn ymwybodol iawn o hynny. A'r angen i blannu'r goeden iawn yn y lle iawn—mae hynny hefyd yn bwysig iawn.
4. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am rannu cyfrifoldebau ar gyfer archwilio tomenni glo a'u cadw'n ddiogel? OAQ55161
4. Will the Minister make a statement on the division of responsibilities for inspecting and keeping coal tips safe? OAQ55161
Thank you. The management of coal tips is the responsibility of the landowner. In many cases, this will be a local authority, Natural Resources Wales or the Coal Authority. Where there are concerns about a coal tip, the relevant authorities have powers to inspect them and, if necessary, to undertake remedial work.
Diolch. Cyfrifoldeb y tirfeddiannwr yw rheoli tomenni glo. Mewn llawer o achosion, awdurdod lleol, Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru neu'r Awdurdod Glo fydd hwn. Lle ceir pryderon ynghylch tomen lo, mae gan yr awdurdodau perthnasol bwerau i'w harchwilio ac os oes angen, i wneud gwaith adferol.
Thank you for that answer. It seems that—. My concern is that, when the First Minister said that all these organisations had responsibilities for inspecting these tips—I just worry whether there's any overlap of responsibility where one organisation may not be clear who’s doing what. In respect of Welsh Government owned land, is it solely a matter for NRW to assure you and us? And where—. You said the landowner was responsible, but then you listed various organisations who might not be the landowner, for instance, if it's private land. What then is the responsibility of the Coal Authority versus the local authority in which that land is?
Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw. Mae'n ymddangos—. Yr hyn sy'n peri pryder i mi yw, pan ddywedodd y Prif Weinidog fod gan yr holl sefydliadau hyn gyfrifoldebau i arolygu'r tomenni glo—rwy'n poeni a oes unrhyw orgyffwrdd cyfrifoldeb lle mae'n bosibl na fydd un sefydliad yn glir pwy sy'n gwneud beth. Mewn perthynas â thir sy'n eiddo i Lywodraeth Cymru, ai mater i CNC yn unig yw rhoi sicrwydd i chi ac i ni? A ble—. Fe ddywedoch chi mai'r tirfeddiannwr oedd yn gyfrifol, ond wedyn fe restroch chi amryw o sefydliadau na fyddent yn dirfeddianwyr, er enghraifft os yw'n dir preifat. Beth felly yw cyfrifoldeb yr Awdurdod Glo yn erbyn yr awdurdod lleol lle mae'r tir hwnnw wedi'i leoli?
I think you highlight some very important points, which we are obviously looking at very urgently and very carefully. You'll be aware from the First Minister's answers that he met with the Secretary of State for Wales and, clearly, this is something that, in the immediate aftermath of the landslip that we did see, they discussed: coal tip safety.
In relation to your question around Welsh Government land: yes, it is NRW. Across all of these coal tips there are, as I say, local authorities, Natural Resources Wales or Welsh Government, the Coal Authority, and there are some private owners. I don't think it's too much to ask to have a register of all these. I think that's something that we need to get up and running very quickly. Clearly, even if it's a private landowner, the local authority, where that would be, would have the powers to go in and inspect it, for instance.
So, I think it's really important that we bring this piece of work to a close as quickly as possible. I know there was a further meeting last Friday at official level. There was a meeting this morning, certainly with my officials and I think the Coal Authority, again. So, I want to reassure people that it's something that's being looked at very urgently.
Credaf eich bod yn tynnu sylw at bwyntiau pwysig iawn, ac rydym yn amlwg yn edrych arnynt ar frys ac yn ofalus iawn. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol o atebion y Prif Weinidog iddo gyfarfod ag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, ac yn amlwg, mae hyn yn rhywbeth y buont yn ei drafod yn syth ar ôl y tirlithriad a welsom: diogelwch tomenni glo.
O ran eich cwestiwn ynghylch tir Llywodraeth Cymru: ie, CNC ydyw. Ar draws yr holl domenni glo hyn, fel y dywedaf, mae awdurdodau lleol, Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru neu Lywodraeth Cymru, yr Awdurdod Glo, a cheir rhai perchnogion preifat. Ni chredaf ei bod yn ormod i ofyn am gofrestr o'r rhain. Credaf fod hynny'n rhywbeth y mae angen inni ei roi ar waith ar unwaith. Yn amlwg, hyd yn oed os yw'n dirfeddiannwr preifat, byddai gan yr awdurdod lleol, yn y man hwnnw, bwerau i fynd i mewn a'i archwilio, er enghraifft.
Felly credaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn inni gwblhau’r gwaith hwn cyn gynted â phosibl. Gwn y bu cyfarfod pellach ddydd Gwener diwethaf ar lefel swyddogol. Cafwyd cyfarfod y bore yma, yn sicr gyda fy swyddogion i a chyda’r Awdurdod Glo, rwy’n credu, eto. Felly, hoffwn roi sicrwydd i bobl fod hyn yn rhywbeth sy'n cael ei ystyried fel mater brys.
Minister, the recent landslide in Tylorstown in the Rhondda valley evoked distressing memories of the terrible tragedy that occurred in Aberfan in 1966. Last year, it was announced that the Coal Authority had been awarded a five-year contract by Natural Resources Wales to undertake tip and quarry inspections in south Wales. Ultimately, the best solution is for these tips to be removed altogether. Minister, what discussions have you had with the Coal Authority and Natural Resources Wales with regard to removing this blight from the Welsh landscape?
Weinidog, fe wnaeth y tirlithriad diweddar yn Tylorstown yng nghwm Rhondda ennyn atgofion torcalonnus o’r trychineb ofnadwy a ddigwyddodd yn Aberfan yn 1966. Y llynedd, cyhoeddwyd bod Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru wedi rhoi contract pum mlynedd i'r Awdurdod Glo i archwilio tomenni a chwareli yn ne Cymru. Yn y pen draw, yr ateb gorau yw cael gwared ar y tomenni hyn yn gyfan gwbl. Weinidog, pa drafodaethau rydych wedi'u cael gyda'r Awdurdod Glo a Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru mewn perthynas â chael gwared ar y malltod hwn oddi ar dirwedd Cymru?
I think you're absolutely right, it was certainly very emotive. When I visited Tylorstown with the First Minister, you couldn't help but think back to that dreadful time. Certainly, talking to residents, it was clearly something that they were thinking of and that's why it was so important that the First Minister met so quickly with the Secretary of State. Those discussions happened at that meeting. I think it was something that we looked at. I think it's really important that, perhaps, we have one body that oversees all of these, rather than the dispersed way it is at the moment, which Mark Reckless referred to in his opening question. As I say, this is a piece of work that we are doing very quickly in order to be able to bring—. Obviously, the First Minister will want to report to Members.
Credaf eich bod yn llygad eich lle, roedd yn sicr yn emosiynol iawn. Pan ymwelais â Tylorstown gyda'r Prif Weinidog, ni allech osgoi meddwl am yr adeg ofnadwy honno. Yn sicr, wrth siarad â thrigolion, roedd yn amlwg yn rhywbeth roeddent yn meddwl amdano, a dyna pam ei bod mor bwysig fod y Prif Weinidog wedi cyfarfod mor fuan â'r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol. Cafwyd y trafodaethau hynny yn y cyfarfod hwnnw. Credaf fod hynny’n rhywbeth y gwnaethom ei ystyried. Credaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn, efallai, fod gennym un corff sy'n goruchwylio'r rhain oll, yn hytrach na'r ffordd wasgaredig y mae pethau'n digwydd ar hyn o bryd y cyfeiriodd Mark Reckless ati yn ei gwestiwn agoriadol. Fel y dywedais, mae hwn yn waith rydym yn ei wneud ar frys er mwyn gallu dod â—. Yn amlwg, bydd y Prif Weinidog yn awyddus i adrodd i'r Aelodau.
Minister, last week, when I questioned the First Minister on what was being done to assess the safety of coal tips following recent heavy rain, he told me that all the tips that posed the greatest risk will have been investigated by the end of last week. So, can you confirm if this has happened and can you inform us whether these assessments have discovered anything that would cause us concern? The safety of people is clearly paramount, and has to be, so can you also inform us if standards of safety are being recalibrated to take into account a future climate where heavy rainfalls and floods are going to be more common?
Finally, there was no word from the First Minister on my question about the return of land reclamation schemes for brownfield sites. Those land reclamation schemes have been demanded, as I understand it, by local authorities after being cut by your Government just a few years ago. Has your Labour Government considered a u-turn on land reclamation schemes funding to ensure that former coal tips are not just available for economic use but that we can all be confident that they are made safe?
Weinidog, yr wythnos diwethaf, pan holais y Prif Weinidog ynglŷn â’r hyn a oedd yn digwydd i asesu diogelwch tomenni glo yn dilyn glaw trwm diweddar, dywedodd wrthyf y bydd yr holl domenni sy’n peri’r risg fwyaf wedi cael eu harolygu erbyn diwedd yr wythnos diwethaf. Felly, a allwch gadarnhau bod hyn wedi digwydd, ac a allwch roi gwybod i ni a yw'r asesiadau hyn wedi darganfod unrhyw beth a fyddai'n peri pryder inni? Mae diogelwch pobl yn amlwg yn hollbwysig, ac mae'n rhaid iddo fod, felly a allwch roi gwybod i ni hefyd a yw safonau diogelwch yn cael eu hailgalibradu i ystyried hinsawdd yn y dyfodol lle bydd glawiad trwm a llifogydd yn fwy cyffredin?
Yn olaf, ni chafwyd gair gan y Prif Weinidog ar fy nghwestiwn ynghylch dychweliad cynlluniau adfer tir ar gyfer safleoedd tir llwyd. Mae awdurdodau lleol, yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, wedi mynnu cael y cynlluniau adfer tir hynny ar ôl iddynt gael eu torri gan eich Llywodraeth ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl. A yw eich Llywodraeth Lafur wedi ystyried gwneud tro pedol ar gyllid i gynlluniau adfer tir i sicrhau nid yn unig fod hen domenni glo ar gael at ddefnydd economaidd, ond y gall pob un ohonom fod yn hyderus eu bod yn cael eu gwneud yn ddiogel?
In response to your last question about the discontinued land reclamation scheme, I'm not aware of any discussions, but that wouldn't fall within my portfolio, I don't think, so it could be that another Minister would be looking at that.
I think your point about standards is really important. I think we do need to look at standards, because clearly when those tips were there originally, the words 'climate change' hadn't even been discussed. So, I think, certainly as part of this ongoing piece of work, standards will need to be looked at.
I haven't been given a report around the inspections. As far as I know, all the inspections have been completed and I'm awaiting a piece of information about that, which I'd be very happy to share with Members if possible.
Mewn ymateb i'ch cwestiwn olaf am y cynllun adfer tir a ddaeth i ben, nid wyf yn ymwybodol o unrhyw drafodaethau, ond ni chredaf y byddai hynny'n rhan o fy mhortffolio, felly efallai y byddai Gweinidog arall yn edrych ar hynny.
Credaf fod eich pwynt ynghylch safonau yn bwysig iawn. Credaf fod angen inni ystyried safonau, oherwydd yn amlwg, pan oedd y tomenni hynny yno i gychwyn, nid oedd y geiriau 'newid hinsawdd' wedi'u trafod hyd yn oed. Felly credaf, yn sicr, fel rhan o’r gwaith parhaus hwn, y bydd angen ystyried safonau.
Nid wyf wedi cael adroddiad ynglŷn â'r arolygiadau. Hyd y gwn i, mae'r holl arolygiadau wedi'u cwblhau ac rwy'n aros am wybodaeth ynglŷn â hynny, ac rwy'n fwy na pharod i'w rhannu gyda'r Aelodau os bydd modd.
Could I ask how much of the inspections, which I very much welcome, will deal not only with the large and obvious coal tips and coal deposits that still remain in some valleys, but also those which actually have been subject of reclamation previously, where you have, for example, housing, roads or other infrastructure built on top of it? Because it would seem to me that the same issues of saturated land and increasingly traumatic and increasingly frequent heavy flooding and rain may have issues for those.
Now, I'm not sure that those are within the investigations, but I'd like to reassure my constituents that things such as former opencast sites, roads and rails that are built, in effect, on coal sidings, that those will also be investigated as well. And if she doesn't have the answer now, I wonder if she could write to me, particularly in respect of my own constituency.
A gaf fi ofyn faint o'r arolygiadau, a groesawaf yn fawr, a fydd yn ymdrin nid yn unig â'r tomenni glo a'r dyddodion glo mawr ac amlwg sy'n dal i fodoli mewn rhai cymoedd, ond hefyd y rheini sydd wedi eu hadfer eisoes, lle mae gennych, er enghraifft, dai, ffyrdd neu seilwaith arall wedi’u hadeiladu ar eu pennau? Oherwydd ymddengys i mi y gallai’r un problemau o ran tir gorlawn o ddŵr a llifogydd a glaw trwm mwyfwy niweidiol ac amlach arwain at broblemau i'r rheini.
Nawr, nid wyf yn siŵr a yw’r rheini yn rhan o’r ymchwiliadau, ond hoffwn roi sicrwydd i fy etholwyr fod pethau fel hen safleoedd mwyngloddio brig, ffyrdd a rheilffyrdd sy'n cael eu hadeiladu, i bob pwrpas, ar seidins glo, y bydd y rheini hefyd yn cael eu hymchwilio. Ac os nad oes ganddi’r ateb nawr, tybed a allai ysgrifennu ataf, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â fy etholaeth i.
My understanding is that it was the high-risk tips that were being looked at as a matter of urgency by the end of last week. So, I think what you're referring to is obviously a significant piece of work, which I don't have the timescale on, but I'll certainly look at your own constituency and write to you.
Yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, y tomenni risg uchel a gâi eu hystyried fel mater brys erbyn diwedd yr wythnos diwethaf. Felly, credaf fod yr hyn y cyfeiriwch ato yn amlwg yn waith sylweddol, ac nid oes gennyf yr amserlen ar ei gyfer, ond byddaf yn sicr yn edrych ar eich etholaeth ac yn ysgrifennu atoch.
5. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am bolisi Llywodraeth Cymru ynglŷn ag effaith amgylcheddol niwsans llwch ar gymunedau? OAQ55164
5. Will the Minister provide an update on Welsh Government policy regarding the environmental impact of dust nuisance on communities? OAQ55164
8. Beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ei wneud i warchod pobl Cymru rhag sgil effaith llwch yn dianc i’r atmosffer? OAQ55180
8. What has the Welsh Government done to protect the people of Wales from the side-effects of dust escaping into the atmosphere? OAQ55180
Deputy Presiding Officer, I understand you've given your permission for questions 5 and 8 to be grouped. The Environmental Protection Act 1990 provides local authorities with the necessary powers to investigate dust complaints as a statutory nuisance. If proven, the local authority can require any responsible party to mitigate any dust nuisance identified. 'Planning Policy Wales' also provides guidance to help minimise dust impacts on communities.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, deallaf eich bod wedi rhoi eich caniatâd i gwestiynau 5 a 8 gael eu grwpio. Mae Deddf Diogelu’r Amgylchedd 1990 yn rhoi'r pwerau angenrheidiol i awdurdodau lleol ymchwilio i gwynion am lwch fel niwsans statudol. Os caiff ei gadarnhau, gall yr awdurdod lleol fynnu bod unrhyw un sy'n gyfrifol yn lliniaru unrhyw niwsans llwch a nodir. Mae 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru' hefyd yn darparu canllawiau i helpu i leihau effeithiau llwch ar gymunedau.
The Minister will recall that, on a number of occasions, I've raised issues relating to operations at Gelliargwellt Uchaf Farm in Gelligaer in my constituency, and the operations run under the banner of Bryn Group, which is the business there. The site run by Bryn Group includes a quarry for the supply of aggregates and, as such, blasting takes place on a regular basis. I get a lot of complaints from residents about dust nuisance and vibrations across the community of Gelligaer. Dust is a nuisance by-product, and residents feel strongly that it's having a detrimental impact on the local environment and on their lives. It can also be seen at nearby Llancaiach Fawr Manor, so there is a question of whether that has an impact on tourism as well.
I understand the Environmental Protection Act 1990 is the Act that Caerphilly County Borough Council defers to when considering action against statutory nuisance complaints, and that Act doesn't provide enough power to deal with these issues in the community of Gelligaer. Therefore, does the Minister feel that legislative change is required so that the impact of dust nuisance can be dealt with more effectively by local authorities, and particularly by Caerphilly County Borough Council in this instance, in order to deal with what is becoming an increasing problem?
Bydd y Gweinidog yn cofio fy mod, ar sawl achlysur, wedi codi materion sy'n ymwneud â gweithrediadau ar Fferm Gelliargwellt Uchaf yng Ngelligaer yn fy etholaeth, a'r gwaith sy'n cael ei wneud o dan faner Bryn Group, sef y busnes yno. Mae'r safle sy'n cael ei redeg gan Bryn Group yn cynnwys chwarel ar gyfer cyflenwi agregau, ac o'r herwydd, mae ffrwydro'n digwydd yn rheolaidd. Rwy'n cael llawer o gwynion gan drigolion am niwsans llwch a dirgryniadau ar draws cymuned Gelligaer. Mae llwch yn sgil-gynnyrch sy'n peri niwsans, ac mae trigolion yn teimlo'n gryf ei fod yn cael effaith niweidiol ar yr amgylchedd lleol ac ar eu bywydau. Mae hefyd i'w weld ym Maenor Llancaiach Fawr gerllaw, felly mae cwestiwn yn codi ynglŷn â'i effaith ar dwristiaeth hefyd.
Deallaf mai Deddf Diogelu'r Amgylchedd 1990 yw'r Ddeddf y mae Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili yn cyfeirio ati wrth ystyried cymryd camau yn erbyn cwynion niwsans statudol, ac nid yw'r Ddeddf honno'n darparu digon o bŵer i fynd i'r afael â'r materion hyn yng nghymuned Gelligaer. Felly, a yw'r Gweinidog yn teimlo bod angen newid deddfwriaethol fel y gall awdurdodau lleol fynd i'r afael yn fwy effeithiol ag effaith niwsans llwch, ac yn enwedig Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili yn yr achos hwn, er mwyn ymdrin â'r broblem gynyddol hon?
So, I haven't been given any advice that that legislation needs to be looked at or refreshed. What I have been reassured of is that officers from Caerphilly council's environmental health team do respond to all complaints. I know there's a dust mitigation scheme for the site. I also know that Caerphilly council and NRW had a lot of complaints about this site. The council have also undertaken periodic dust monitoring within both Penybryn and Gelligaer communities. They have recorded dust levels typical of ambient levels, and also as a precaution they have installed a permanent PM10 monitor within the Penybryn community, which has been shared with Public Health Wales, who've not identified any concerns. But I'd be very happy to meet with the Member to discuss those particular points, if you think it would be helpful.
Nid wyf wedi cael unrhyw gyngor fod angen edrych ar y ddeddfwriaeth honno neu ei hadnewyddu. Yr hyn y cefais sicrwydd yn ei gylch yw bod swyddogion o dîm iechyd yr amgylchedd cyngor Caerffili yn ymateb i bob cwyn. Gwn fod cynllun lliniaru llwch i'w gael ar gyfer y safle. Gwn hefyd fod cyngor Caerffili a Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru wedi cael llawer o gwynion am y safle hwn. Mae'r cyngor hefyd wedi cynnal gwaith monitro llwch cyfnodol yng nghymunedau Penybryn a Gelligaer. Maent wedi cofnodi lefelau llwch sy'n nodweddiadol o lefelau amgylchynol, ac fel rhagofal, maent hefyd wedi gosod monitor PM10 parhaol yng nghymuned Penybryn, monitor a rennir gydag Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru, ac nid ydynt hwy wedi nodi unrhyw bryderon. Ond rwy'n fwy na pharod i gyfarfod â'r Aelod i drafod y pwyntiau penodol hynny, os ydych yn meddwl y byddai hynny o gymorth.
Dust from the Kronospan works has been visible on people's cars and windows in Chirk for many, many years, and local residents are hugely concerned about the impact that breathing in that dust over the longer term has on their health. Monitoring by Wrexham County Borough Council only measures the larger particulates, the PM10s, while there's nothing in place to measure the smaller PM2.5s, which can get into the lungs, and the chemicals associated with the plants, such as formaldehyde. Because of this, local residents are worried that their long-term health is going to suffer, but particularly their children in nearby schools as well. So, when will this Government make sure that the health and safety of the residents of places such as Chirk are protected by improving monitoring for both chemicals and the smaller particulates, and that that monitoring happens in an open and transparent way?
Mae llwch o weithfeydd Kronospan wedi bod yn weladwy ar geir a ffenestri pobl yn y Waun ers blynyddoedd lawer, ac mae'r trigolion lleol yn pryderu'n fawr am yr effaith y mae anadlu'r llwch hwnnw'n fwy hirdymor yn ei chael ar eu hiechyd. Y gronynnau mwy yn unig y mae gwaith monitro gan Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Wrecsam yn eu mesur, y gronynnau PM10, ac nid oes unrhyw beth ar waith i fesur y gronynnau PM2.5 llai o faint, a all fynd i mewn i'r ysgyfaint, a'r cemegion sy'n gysylltiedig â'r gweithfeydd, fel fformaldehyd. Oherwydd hyn, mae'r trigolion lleol yn poeni bod eu hiechyd yn mynd i ddioddef yn y tymor hir, ond yn enwedig iechyd eu plant mewn ysgolion cyfagos hefyd. Felly, pryd y bydd y Llywodraeth hon yn sicrhau bod iechyd a diogelwch trigolion mewn lleoedd fel y Waun yn cael eu diogelu drwy wella'r gwaith monitro ar gyfer y cemegion a'r gronynnau llai, a sicrhau bod y gwaith monitro hwnnw'n digwydd mewn modd agored a thryloyw?
We obviously take the concerns—. You've referred to Kronospan and Chirk in particular. We obviously take their concerns very seriously. You'll be aware there's ongoing work in relation to that. You'll be aware of what we're doing across Wales in relation to the clean air Wales programme, the clean air plan for Wales, and we will be bringing forward a clean air Act for Wales.
In relation to PM10 and PM2.5, typically, the sizes of visible dust particles are too large to be breathed in, so the health risks and impacts are not the same as they are for exposure to smaller fractions such as PM10 and PM2.5. You'll also be aware that NRW will be the whole regulator for that site from the summer. Another thing that I have discussed with NRW is I think there needs to be much better engagement with the residents of Chirk around a lot of their concerns. I think that hasn't been the case with the local authority, and when NRW do take over as whole regulators for the site, I really stress the importance of community engagement in their regulatory role.
Yn amlwg, rydym yn cymryd y pryderon—. Fe gyfeirioch chi at Kronospan a'r Waun yn benodol. Mae'n amlwg ein bod o ddifrif ynglŷn â'u pryderon. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol fod gwaith yn mynd rhagddo mewn perthynas â hynny. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol o'r hyn rydym yn ei wneud ledled Cymru mewn perthynas â rhaglen aer glân Cymru, y cynllun aer glân i Gymru, a byddwn yn cyflwyno Deddf aer glân i Gymru.
Mewn perthynas â gronynnau PM10 a PM2.5, fel arfer, mae meintiau gronynnau llwch gweladwy yn rhy fawr i'w hanadlu i mewn, felly nid yw'r risgiau a'r effeithiau iechyd yr un fath ag wrth ddod i gysylltiad â gronynnau llai fel gronynnau PM10 a PM2.5. Fe fyddwch hefyd yn ymwybodol mai Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru fydd yr unig gorff rheoleiddio ar gyfer y safle hwnnw o'r haf hwn ymlaen. Un peth arall rwyf wedi'i drafod gyda Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru yw fy mod yn credu bod angen ymgysylltu'n llawer gwell â thrigolion y Waun ynglŷn â llawer o'u pryderon. Ni chredaf fod hynny wedi digwydd gyda'r awdurdod lleol, a phan fydd CNC yn dod yn unig gorff rheoleiddio ar gyfer y safle, rwy'n pwysleisio pwysigrwydd ymgysylltu â'r gymuned yn eu rôl reoleiddiol.
In fact, only yesterday, a study reported in The Times found that air pollution causes more deaths than the total from wars, malaria, AIDS and smoking put together. Referring to the fire at Kronospan, in the days that followed, as you might know, the new MP, Simon Baynes, for Clwyd South had an eight-hour surgery with residents there discussing their concerns about the air quality problems they'd experienced following the fire—not just people in Chirk, but also the surrounding area. He also met the council, the chief executive, Kronospan, the town council and so on.
A typical e-mail I got from a constituent about this: 'I live three miles away and have been affected by the smoke even with windows closed.' That was three days after the fire started. The people of Chirk need answers and assurance that all the issues at Kronospan will be taken seriously. We need independent, regular, unannounced visits to monitor air pollution.
I contacted Natural Resources Wales and I did get a helpful response. They reconfirmed that the complication is caused by the regulation being split between themselves and Wrexham council, and that although they put in a request at the multi-agency meeting for temporary air-monitoring equipment, it's down to the council to continue with longer term air monitoring in Chirk.
So, can you confirm when the split regulation is due to end, which in previous correspondence on behalf of Chirk residents I understand is planned for, and also how you respond to the call for independent, regular, unannounced visits to monitor air pollution in and around Chirk?
Mewn gwirionedd, ddoe ddiwethaf, nododd astudiaeth yn The Times fod llygredd aer yn achosi mwy o farwolaethau na'r cyfanswm sy'n cael eu lladd gan ryfeloedd, malaria, AIDS ac ysmygu gyda'i gilydd. Gan gyfeirio at y tân yn Kronospan, yn y dyddiau canlynol, fel y gwyddoch, o bosibl, cynhaliodd yr AS newydd dros Dde Clwyd, Simon Baynes, gymhorthfa wyth awr gyda thrigolion yno i drafod eu pryderon ynghylch y problemau ansawdd aer a gawsant ar ôl y tân—nid yn unig pobl yn y Waun, ond yn yr ardal gyfagos hefyd. Cyfarfu hefyd â'r cyngor, y prif weithredwr, Kronospan, cyngor y dref ac ati.
E-bost nodweddiadol a gefais gan etholwr ynglŷn â hyn: 'Rwy'n byw dair milltir i ffwrdd ac rwyf wedi cael fy effeithio gan y mwg hyd yn oed gyda fy ffenestri ar gau.' Roedd hynny dri diwrnod ar ôl i'r tân ddechrau. Mae angen atebion ar bobl y Waun, a sicrwydd y bydd yr holl broblemau yn Kronospan yn cael ystyriaeth ddifrifol. Mae angen ymweliadau annibynnol, rheolaidd, dirybudd i fonitro llygredd aer.
Cysylltais â Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru a chefais ymateb defnyddiol. Gwnaethant ailgadarnhau bod y cymhlethdod wedi'i achosi gan y ffaith bod y gwaith rheoleiddio wedi'i rannu rhyngddynt hwy a chyngor Wrecsam, ac er iddynt wneud cais yn y cyfarfod amlasiantaethol am offer monitro aer dros dro, cyfrifoldeb y cyngor yw parhau i fonitro'r aer yn y Waun yn fwy hirdymor.
Felly, a allwch gadarnhau pryd y mae rhannu'r gwaith rheoleiddio i fod i ddod i ben, gan y deallaf o ohebiaeth flaenorol ar ran trigolion y Waun fod hynny wedi'i gynllunio, a hefyd sut rydych yn ymateb i'r alwad am ymweliadau annibynnol, rheolaidd, dirybudd i fonitro llygredd aer yn y Waun a'r cyffiniau?
Well, I'm not sure if the Member heard me, but I said in my answer to Llyr Huws Gruffydd it will be in the summer. I am aware of the concerns of having that split and, obviously, Wrexham County Borough Council are the regulators of the affected part of that site, and they've commenced their investigation, which I expect to be completed by the end of April. Certainly, as a Minister across many portfolios, I've been a fan of unannounced inspections. So, it's something I'd be very happy to discuss further with NRW.
Wel, nid wyf yn siŵr a glywodd yr Aelod fi, ond dywedais yn fy ateb i Llyr Huws Gruffydd y bydd hynny'n digwydd yn yr haf. Rwy'n ymwybodol o'r pryderon ynghylch y rhaniad, ac yn amlwg, Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Wrecsam yw corff rheoleiddio'r rhan o'r safle yr effeithiwyd arni, ac maent wedi dechrau eu hymchwiliad, ac rwy'n disgwyl iddo gael ei gwblhau erbyn diwedd mis Ebrill. Yn sicr, fel Gweinidog ar draws sawl portffolio, rwyf wedi cefnogi arolygiadau dirybudd. Felly, mae'n rhywbeth y buaswn yn fwy na pharod i'w drafod ymhellach gyda Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru.
In the last few weeks, I've organised a public meeting in Taibach in Port Talbot with the British Lung Foundation. There, I talked to many residents about the concerns that they have with dust in Port Talbot, and I understand that Tata has plans for a new chimney stack and other elements to replace the current 40-year-old extraction system from the sinter plant.
So, I'm wanting to understand what conversations you as Minister have had with Tata in relation to them changing their initiatives in this regard to make it more environmentally friendly for the people living in and around the steel plant. What was widely told to me in that public meeting was they would welcome—as you said to Hefin David—more public engagement opportunities so that they can understand exactly what these types of issues are, and how they can relay this in a way that they understand.
We all talk here of PM10s, PM2.5s, but we have to normalise what these issues are about so people understand how severe they are when they do actually go into people's lungs and they do affect their everyday lives. So, would you commit to also a public information campaign so that people across Wales are aware of the dangers in relation to air pollution, and how then the Act that you're going to put forward in relation to this matter can then mean something to them in their everyday lives?
Yn yr wythnosau diwethaf, rwyf wedi trefnu cyfarfod cyhoeddus yn Tai-bach ym Mhort Talbot gyda'r British Lung Foundation. Yno, siaradais â llawer o drigolion am y pryderon sydd ganddynt am lwch ym Mhort Talbot, a deallaf fod gan Tata gynlluniau ar gyfer corn simnai newydd ac elfennau eraill i'w gosod yn lle'r system gloddio 40 oed bresennol yn y gwaith sintro.
Felly, rwy'n awyddus i ddeall pa sgyrsiau rydych chi fel Gweinidog wedi'u cael gyda Tata mewn perthynas â hwy'n newid eu mentrau yn hyn o beth i'w gwneud yn fwy ecogyfeillgar i'r bobl sy'n byw yn y gwaith dur a'r cyffiniau. Yr hyn a ddywedwyd wrthyf gan lawer yn y cyfarfod cyhoeddus hwnnw oedd y byddent yn croesawu—fel y dywedoch chi wrth Hefin David—mwy o gyfleoedd i ymgysylltu â'r cyhoedd er mwyn iddynt allu deall beth yn union yw'r mathau hyn o broblemau, a sut y gallant gyfleu hyn mewn ffordd y maent yn ei deall.
Rydym yn siarad yma am ronynnau PM10, PM2.5, ond mae'n rhaid inni normaleiddio'r hyn y mae'r materion hyn yn ymwneud ag ef fel bod pobl yn deall pa mor ddifrifol ydynt pan fyddant yn mynd i mewn i ysgyfaint pobl ac yn effeithio ar eu bywydau bob dydd. Felly, a wnewch chi ymrwymo i gynnal ymgyrch wybodaeth i'r cyhoedd hefyd fel bod pobl ledled Cymru yn ymwybodol o'r peryglon mewn perthynas â llygredd aer, a sut wedyn y gall y Ddeddf rydych am ei chyflwyno mewn perthynas â'r mater hwn olygu rhywbeth iddynt yn eu bywydau bob dydd?
I visited Tata back in the summer recess with David Rees, the local Member, where this was discussed, and my officials continue to have ongoing conversations with Tata around that.
I don't disagree with what you say about public engagement. For me, knowledge is power, and it's really important that we empower residents to know exactly what the dust is, for instance, what they can't see. I think it's really important that they have that knowledge. And, clearly, as we've had that consultation around the plan and then forward to the Act, I think that's something that we need to look at very, very carefully.
Ymwelais â Tata yn ôl yn ystod toriad yr haf gyda David Rees, yr Aelod lleol, lle trafodwyd hyn, ac mae fy swyddogion yn parhau i gael sgyrsiau parhaus gyda Tata ynglŷn â hynny.
Nid wyf yn anghytuno â'r hyn a ddywedwch am ymgysylltu â'r cyhoedd. Gorau arf, dysg, yn fy marn i, ac mae'n bwysig iawn ein bod yn grymuso preswylwyr i wybod beth yn union yw'r llwch, er enghraifft, yr hyn na allant ei weld. Credaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn fod y wybodaeth honno ganddynt. Ac yn amlwg, gan ein bod wedi cael yr ymgynghoriad hwnnw ynglŷn â'r cynllun ac yna ymlaen at y Ddeddf, credaf fod hynny'n rhywbeth y mae angen inni edrych arno'n ofalus iawn.
6. A wnaiff y Gweinidog amlinellu'r hyn y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i gefnogi pobl y mae'r llifogydd diweddar yng Nghwm Cynon wedi effeithio arnynt? OAQ55152
6. Will the Minister outline what the Welsh Government is doing to support people affected by the recent flooding in Cynon Valley? OAQ55152
Thank you. Welsh Government has a number of schemes in place to support people affected by the recent flooding across Wales, including the discretionary assistance fund for individuals, and a business support package. We're also supporting local authorities through the emergency financial assistance scheme.
Diolch. Mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru nifer o gynlluniau ar waith i gefnogi'r bobl yr effeithiwyd arnynt gan y llifogydd diweddar ledled Cymru, gan gynnwys y gronfa cymorth yn ôl disgresiwn i unigolion, a phecyn cymorth i fusnesau. Rydym hefyd yn cefnogi awdurdodau lleol drwy'r cynllun cymorth ariannol brys.
Thank you, Minister. I welcome the Welsh Government's statement that was published today announcing £2.5 million support for businesses affected by flooding. That will certainly be of some comfort to the estimated 450 businesses that have been affected throughout Rhondda Cynon Taf.
Now, I know that you are aware, Minister, of the statistics that have been published by the Royal Meteorological Society this week, suggesting that the south Wales Valleys will see an estimated 50 per cent increase in rainfall over the next 10 years due to climate change. So, I'm very interested in the work that NRW might possibly be able to do to militate against the worst effects of this. Three key issues have been raised with me repeatedly by constituents who were among the estimated 750 homes affected in RCT. The first is replanting of trees, and I note your answers to other Members in this Chamber today on that.
The second one is dredging, and many constituents feel really passionately, knowing their communities, that rivers have been dredged very thoroughly in past years, but that, over the recent 10 or 20 years this approach has fallen out of favour. So, I'd be interested in your views on this and the message that I can convey to my constituents on that.
And the last one is about staffing. Again, I note your comments to other Members on this, but I'm talking about boots on the ground, really—people who can clear debris, keep rivers free-flowing. And even in this time of austerity, would it be possible for the Welsh Government to consider increasing the numbers of those types of staff working for NRW so that replanting of trees and keeping our channels free of debris could be prioritised?
Diolch, Weinidog. Croesawaf ddatganiad Llywodraeth Cymru a gyhoeddwyd heddiw yn rhyddhau gwerth £2.5 miliwn o gymorth i fusnesau y mae llifogydd wedi effeithio arnynt. Yn sicr, bydd hynny'n rhoi rhywfaint o gysur i'r 450 amcangyfrifedig o fusnesau yr effeithiwyd arnynt ledled Rhondda Cynon Taf.
Nawr, gwn eich bod yn ymwybodol, Weinidog, o'r ystadegau a gyhoeddwyd gan y Gymdeithas Feteorolegol Frenhinol yr wythnos hon, sy'n awgrymu y bydd cynnydd amcangyfrifedig o 50 y cant yn y glawiad dros Gymoedd de Cymru dros y 10 mlynedd nesaf oherwydd y newid yn yr hinsawdd. Felly, mae gennyf gryn ddiddordeb yn y gwaith y gallai CNC ei wneud i liniaru effeithiau gwaethaf hyn. Mae tri mater allweddol wedi'u codi gyda mi dro ar ôl tro gan etholwyr a oedd ymhlith y 750 amcangyfrifedig o gartrefi yr effeithiwyd arnynt yn RhCT. Y cyntaf yw ailblannu coed, a nodaf eich atebion i Aelodau eraill yn y Siambr hon heddiw ynglŷn â hynny.
Yr ail yw carthu, ac mae llawer o etholwyr yn teimlo'n angerddol iawn, o fod yn adnabod eu cymunedau, fod afonydd wedi cael eu carthu'n drwyadl iawn yn y gorffennol, ond dros y 10 neu 20 mlynedd diwethaf, fod hyn wedi cael ei esgeuluso. Felly, hoffwn glywed eich barn ar hyn a'r neges y gallaf ei chyfleu i fy etholwyr.
Ac mae'r olaf yn ymwneud â staffio. Unwaith eto, nodaf eich sylwadau i Aelodau eraill ar hyn, ond rwy'n sôn am bobl ar lawr gwlad—pobl sy'n gallu clirio gweddillion, sicrhau bod afonydd yn llifo. A hyd yn oed yn ystod y cyfnod hwn o gyni, a fyddai modd i Lywodraeth Cymru ystyried cynyddu niferoedd y mathau hynny o staff sy'n gweithio i CNC fel y gellid blaenoriaethu ailblannu coed a chadw ein sianeli'n rhydd o weddillion?
Thank you. On the specific three points you raised, just to add, really, to previous answers around tree planting, I know that NRW's board have approved an umbrella woodland creation programme, and what I've asked them to do is really move ahead with that implementation and look at the areas where that can be expedited.
In relation to staff recruitment, and clearly you're talking about, as you say, boots on the ground, I mean, it's something I'm very happy to raise with NRW. We do talk about staffing, but we tend to talk about—. I mentioned flood engineers and making sure that they have their full quota of that. But that's certainly something I will raise with them.
And in relation to dredging, obviously NRW and local authorities are undertaking watercourse maintenance—clearing those obstructions, managing the vegetation, removing sedimentation, for instance. Large-scale dredging of river channels, I'm informed, is not an effective solution to reduce flooding, and what really concerned me was that it can actually make matters worse. So, I think, in the extreme weather that we've seen, for example, the volume of water far exceeds what the river channel can hold, irrespective of dredging works. But I think it's certainly something that we need to look at very carefully because, clearly, we wouldn't want to make matters worse.
Diolch. O ran y tri phwynt penodol a godwyd gennych, i ychwanegu, mewn gwirionedd, at atebion blaenorol mewn perthynas â phlannu coed, gwn fod bwrdd Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru wedi cymeradwyo rhaglen ambarél i greu coetiroedd, a'r hyn rwyf wedi gofyn iddynt ei wneud yw bwrw ymlaen â'r broses o roi hynny ar waith ac edrych ar yr ardaloedd lle gellir cyflymu hynny.
O ran recriwtio staff, ac yn amlwg, rydych yn sôn, fel y dywedwch, am bobl ar lawr gwlad, mae hynny'n rhywbeth rwy'n fwy na pharod i'w godi gyda Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru. Rydym yn sôn am staffio, ond rydym yn tueddu i sôn am—. Soniais am beirianwyr llifogydd a sicrhau eu bod yn cael eu cwota llawn o hynny. Ond mae hynny'n sicr yn rhywbeth y byddaf yn ei godi gyda hwy.
Ac mewn perthynas â charthu, yn amlwg, mae CNC ac awdurdodau lleol yn ymgymryd â gwaith cynnal a chadw cyrsiau dŵr—clirio'r rhwystrau, rheoli'r llystyfiant, cael gwared ar waddodiad, er enghraifft. Dywedir wrthyf nad yw carthu sianeli afonydd ar raddfa fawr yn ateb effeithiol i leihau llifogydd, a'r hyn a oedd yn peri gwir bryder imi oedd y gall wneud pethau'n waeth. Felly, yn y tywydd eithafol rydym wedi'i weld, rwy'n credu er enghraifft fod cyfaint y dŵr yn fwy o lawer na'r hyn y gall sianel yr afon ei ddal, ni waeth pa waith carthu a wneir. Ond credaf ei fod yn sicr yn rhywbeth y mae angen inni edrych arno'n ofalus iawn oherwydd, yn amlwg, ni fyddem am wneud pethau'n waeth.
Minister, I wonder if you could provide an update on the flood disaster relief funding for Wales that was promised by the UK Prime Minister when he said in Parliament a week ago that the UK Government are
'committed to working flat out with the Welsh devolved administration to ensure everybody gets the flood relief that they need. And that cash, yes of course will certainly be passported through'.
Have you had any cash passported through to you?
Weinidog, tybed a allech roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni am y cyllid i Gymru i leddfu effeithiau trychineb llifogydd a addawyd gan Brif Weinidog y DU pan ddywedodd yn y Senedd wythnos yn ôl fod Llywodraeth y DU
wedi ymrwymo i weithio hyd eithaf ein gallu gyda gweinyddiaeth ddatganoledig Cymru er mwyn sicrhau bod pawb yn cael y cymorth llifogydd sydd ei angen arnynt. A bydd yr arian hwnnw, wrth gwrs, yn sicr o gael ei basportio drwodd.
A ydych wedi cael unrhyw arian wedi'i basportio drwodd i chi?
Not that I'm aware of.
Hyd y gwn i, nac ydym.
You do have to have the demand first, before you pass the cash on, and I don't think a demand's gone forward.
But if I could ask my question, the point I would like to ask is: we had the all-party group on woodland and forestry yesterday, and various Members challenged some of the experts around the table as to why there isn't greater woodland planting in some of the upland areas. The response that came back was that some of the rules and regulations around the management of those upland areas make it prohibitive, if not impossible, to plant woodland on those areas. Would you concur with that evidence that was put before us yesterday, and if you don't, will you actively encourage greater woodland plantations in the uplands, which could help alleviate some of the flooding further down by greater absorption further upstream?
Mae'n rhaid i chi gael y cais yn gyntaf, cyn ichi basio'r arian ymlaen, ac ni chredaf fod cais wedi'i wneud.
Ond os caf ofyn fy nghwestiwn, y pwynt yr hoffwn ei ofyn yw: cawsom y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar goetiroedd a choedwigaeth ddoe, a bu amryw o Aelodau'n herio rhai o'r arbenigwyr o gwmpas y bwrdd ynghylch pam nad oes mwy o goetiroedd yn cael eu plannu yn rhai o'r ucheldiroedd. Yr ymateb a gafwyd oedd bod rhai o'r rheolau a'r rheoliadau sy'n ymwneud â'r gwaith o reoli'r ucheldiroedd hynny'n ei gwneud yn anodd, os nad yn amhosibl, plannu coetiroedd yn yr ardaloedd hynny. A fyddech yn cytuno â'r dystiolaeth honno a gyflwynwyd inni ddoe, ac os nad ydych, a wnewch chi fynd ati i annog plannu mwy o goetiroedd ar yr ucheldir, a allai helpu i liniaru peth o'r llifogydd yn is i lawr drwy amsugno mwy o ddŵr ymhellach i fyny'r afon?
It's something I have been actively encouraging, and, certainly, as we've been scoping the national forest, which you will be aware was the First Minister's manifesto commitment, over the last year, it's something that we've certainly been, as I say, actively encouraging and looking at.
Mae'n rhywbeth y bûm yn ei annog yn weithredol, ac yn sicr, gan ein bod wedi bod yn gwneud gwaith cwmpasu ar y goedwig genedlaethol, sef ymrwymiad maniffesto'r Prif Weinidog, fel y gwyddoch, dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, mae'n rhywbeth rydym yn sicr wedi bod yn edrych arno ac yn ei annog, fel y dywedaf.
Thank you very much, Minister.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Weinidog.
Item 2 on the agenda is questions to the Minister for Housing and Local Government. Question 1—David Rowlands.
Eitem 2 ar yr agenda yw cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol. Cwestiwn 1—David Rowlands.
1. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i sicrhau nad yw ad-drefnu llywodraeth leol yn arwain at gostau uwch i drethdalwyr? OAQ55148
1. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to ensure that local government reorganisation does not result in higher costs for taxpayers? OAQ55148
The Welsh Government has no plans to reorganise our 22 principal councils. Where voluntary merger proposals come forward, we will act to support them.
Nid oes gan Lywodraeth Cymru unrhyw gynlluniau i ad-drefnu ein 22 prif gyngor. Pan fydd cynigion i uno'n wirfoddol yn cael eu cyflwyno, byddwn yn rhoi camau ar waith i'w cefnogi.
I thank you for that answer, Minister. In the Welsh Labour manifesto for the 2016 Welsh Assembly elections, there was a commitment to create stronger, larger local authorities that would lead to devolution of powers from Cardiff bay. We know that your predecessor told us that councils had to change, or he would make them change. Can you please explain why your manifesto pledge was not adhered to?
Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Ym maniffesto Llafur Cymru ar gyfer etholiadau Cynulliad Cymru yn 2016, cafwyd ymrwymiad i greu awdurdodau lleol cryfach a mwy o faint a fyddai'n arwain at ddatganoli pwerau o Fae Caerdydd. Gwyddom i'ch rhagflaenydd ddweud wrthym fod yn rhaid i gynghorau newid, neu byddai'n gwneud iddynt newid. A allwch egluro os gwelwch yn dda pam na chadwyd at addewid eich maniffesto?
I set out my plans for local government in my Plenary statement on 19 November, which introduced the Local Government and Elections (Wales) Bill. That statement very clearly set out that the reforms in the Bill will improve transparency, governance and performance, and also provide a framework for more consistent, effective, collaborative working that will enable local government to be more efficient and better able to deal with the pressure it faces.
In 2020-21, local authorities will receive £4.474 billion from the Welsh Government in core revenue funding to spend on delivering key services. That equates to an increase of 4.3 per cent on a like-for-like basis compared to the current year. That's the best settlement we have been able to provide for local government for many years. The Member will, therefore, be aware that we have very much kept our manifesto commitment.
Nodais fy nghynlluniau ar gyfer llywodraeth leol yn fy natganiad yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ar 19 Tachwedd, a gyflwynodd Fil Llywodraeth Leol ac Etholiadau (Cymru). Roedd y datganiad hwnnw'n nodi'n glir iawn y bydd y diwygiadau yn y Bil yn gwella tryloywder, llywodraethiant a pherfformiad, yn ogystal â darparu fframwaith ar gyfer gweithio mwy cyson, effeithiol a chydweithredol a fydd yn galluogi llywodraeth leol i fod yn fwy effeithlon ac i allu ymdopi'n well â'r pwysau y mae'n ei wynebu.
Yn 2020-21, bydd awdurdodau lleol yn cael £4.474 biliwn gan Lywodraeth Cymru mewn cyllid refeniw craidd i'w wario ar ddarparu gwasanaethau allweddol. Mae hynny'n cyfateb i gynnydd o 4.3 y cant ar sail tebyg am debyg o gymharu â'r flwyddyn gyfredol. Dyna'r setliad gorau rydym wedi gallu ei ddarparu i lywodraeth leol ers blynyddoedd lawer. Fe fydd yr Aelod yn ymwybodol felly ein bod yn bendant wedi cadw at ymrwymiad ein maniffesto.
Minister, funding cuts to local authorities have resulted in councils having to reconsider the way they provide services to deliver savings. In some cases, they're sharing services with neighbouring local authorities. However, councils in Wales inevitably focused on short-term measures to balance their budgets, rather than investing in longer term measures to transform services. Since they do not know what future settlements will be, what action is the Minister taking to provide local authorities with more certainty about future settlements to allow them to develop more robust medium-term financial planning and thereby help avoid the risk of local government reorganisation, resulting in higher costs for taxpayers in Wales?
Weinidog, mae toriadau i gyllid awdurdodau lleol wedi golygu bod cynghorau'n gorfod ailystyried y ffordd y maent yn darparu gwasanaethau i sicrhau arbedion. Mewn rhai achosion, maent yn rhannu gwasanaethau gydag awdurdodau lleol cyfagos. Fodd bynnag, yn anochel, canolbwyntiodd cynghorau yng Nghymru ar fesurau tymor byr i fantoli eu cyllidebau, yn hytrach na buddsoddi mewn mesurau mwy hirdymor i weddnewid gwasanaethau. Gan nad ydynt yn gwybod beth fydd y setliadau yn y dyfodol, pa gamau y mae'r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i roi mwy o sicrwydd i awdurdodau lleol ynghylch setliadau yn y dyfodol er mwyn iddynt ddatblygu cynlluniau ariannol mwy cadarn ar gyfer y tymor canolig, a thrwy hynny, helpu i osgoi'r perygl o ad-drefnu llywodraeth leol, a fyddai'n arwain at gostau uwch i drethdalwyr yng Nghymru?
I applaud Mohammad Asghar's wish and desire to give local government certainty over their funding. I really wish that the Government that he supports at the UK level also shared that desire. You'll know that we only have a single-year budget. If we'd had the comprehensive spending review that his Government had promised us, we would not be in that position. We've given local authorities the best settlement that we could in the circumstances. He will be aware, as the rest of us are, that his Government has not even brought the budget forward in the normal time constraints this year.
Cymeradwyaf ddymuniad ac awydd Mohammad Asghar i roi sicrwydd i lywodraeth leol ynglŷn â'u cyllid. Buaswn wrth fy modd pe bai'r Llywodraeth y mae'n ei chefnogi ar lefel y DU yn rhannu'r awydd hwnnw hefyd. Fe fyddwch yn gwybod mai cyllideb un flwyddyn yn unig sydd gennym. Pe baem wedi cael yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr o wariant roedd ei Lywodraeth wedi'i addo inni, ni fyddem yn y sefyllfa honno. Rydym wedi rhoi'r setliad gorau y gallem ei roi i awdurdodau lleol o dan yr amgylchiadau. Fe fydd yn ymwybodol, fel y gweddill ohonom, nad yw ei Lywodraeth hyd yn oed wedi cyflwyno'r gyllideb o fewn y terfynau amser arferol eleni.
2. Faint o bobl sydd ar restrau aros am dai cymdeithasol ar draws Cymru? OAQ55160
2. How many people are on waiting lists for social housing throughout Wales? OAQ55160
Thank you for the question. Statistics regarding households on social housing waiting lists are not collected by the Welsh Government. However, recognising the very real need, we continue to prioritise investment in increasing the supply of affordable housing. This will contribute towards easing pressure on waiting lists.
Diolch am eich cwestiwn. Nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn casglu ystadegau ynghylch aelwydydd ar restrau aros am dai cymdeithasol. Fodd bynnag, gan gydnabod yr angen gwirioneddol, rydym yn parhau i flaenoriaethu buddsoddiad i gynyddu'r cyflenwad o dai fforddiadwy. Bydd hyn yn cyfrannu at leddfu'r pwysau ar restrau aros.
Mae'n gwbl ryfeddol nad oes gennych chi fel Llywodraeth ddata manwl cenedlaethol am y nifer o bobl sydd yn aros am dŷ cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. O gofio bod hon yn un o'ch blaenoriaethau chi, sef darparu mwy o dai cymdeithasol, sut yn y byd ydych chi'n medru monitro bod eich polisïau chi'n effeithiol os dydych chi ddim yn gwybod un union beth yw'r sefyllfa? Yn Arfon, dwi yn gwybod bod llawer gormod o bobl yn aros am dai cymdeithasol. Maen nhw mewn tai anaddas. Mae'r tai yn rhy fach i anghenion eu teuluoedd nhw. Maen nhw'n damp a chostus o ran biliau, neu mae pobl yn dibynnu ar ewyllys da eu teuluoedd a'u ffrindiau. Neu, wrth gwrs, maen nhw'n gorfod byw ar y stryd achos bod yna ddim digon o dai cymdeithasol.
Mae gan Gyngor Gwynedd, dwi'n gwybod, gynlluniau arloesol i adeiladu mwy o dai cymdeithasol i ddiwallu'r angen yn lleol. Ond, dwi'n gofyn i chi eto: sut fedrwch chi ddarparu digonedd o dai os dydych chi ddim yn gwybod beth yw digonedd o dai yn y lle cyntaf, oherwydd bod y data ddim ar gael?
It's astonishing that you don't have, as a Government, detailed national data on the number of people who are waiting for social housing in Wales. Given that this is one of your priorities, namely, providing more social housing, how are you monitoring that your policies are effective if you don't know exactly what is the position? In Arfon, I know that there are too many people waiting for social housing. They are in inappropriate homes. They're too small for the requirements of their families. They're damp and costly in terms of bills, or people are relying on the goodwill of their families and friends. Or, of course, they have to live on the street because there isn't enough social housing.
Gwynedd Council, I know, has innovative plans to build more social housing to meet the need locally, but I ask you again: how can you provide enough homes if you don't know what 'enough' means because the data isn't available?
Yes, well, I understand the connection that Siân Gwenllian is trying to make, and I share the desire behind it. But, in fact, the housing waiting list is not an indication of housing need, as such, because people go on waiting lists for all kinds of reasons. For example, they might want to move for a particular reason, but not actually be in housing need. We don't encourage only people in dire housing need to go on to a council house waiting list; there will be people who want to move within the area who are not 'in need', as such, they have reasons other than not currently being in an insecure home.
So, I applaud the point of the question, which is how we assess need, really, across Wales. We do that in a number of ways. We monitor, for example, the units actually let as social housing units. So, at 31 March 2019, Wales had a total of 231,408 units of social housing let. The new lettings increased by 4 per cent during 2018-19 to 21,135 lettings, 61 per cent of those were on the housing waiting list, up 2 per cent on the previous year to 12,863 of those. The proportion of lettings for households rehoused on a priority basis due to being homeless increased again, and the overall number of types of lettings was up by 15 per cent on the previous year.
So, we are doing it the other way around; we are doing it by actual lettings rather than the list, if you see what I mean. Having said that, though, we do encourage combined housing lists in areas, because there are other benefits, other than understanding the need—not least that in areas with a combined housing list, you can make one application and be considered by all of the social landlords. In 19 of the 22 local authorities, we have a combined list. We have three that don't, and they have different partnership arrangements. What we don't want is somebody to apply to lots of different landlords to acquire their social home.
I have got a piece of research out at the moment to look at how we might be able to list housing need, as opposed to people who want to be on the housing waiting list. I don't wish to discourage people who aren't 'in need' from going on those waiting lists. There are large numbers of people who know, perhaps, that they aren't going to get to the top of a points-based system, but nevertheless want to register for a council house because some of them become available in other circumstances. So, I do have that piece of research out, and I am hoping to be able to announce it in the forthcoming weeks.
Ie, wel, rwy'n deall y cysylltiad y mae Siân Gwenllian yn ceisio'i wneud, a rhannaf yr awydd y tu ôl iddo. Ond mewn gwirionedd, nid yw'r rhestr aros am dai yn arwydd o'r angen am dai fel y cyfryw, gan fod pobl yn mynd ar restrau aros am bob math o resymau. Er enghraifft, efallai y byddant yn awyddus i symud am reswm penodol, ond heb fod angen tŷ mewn gwirionedd. Nid pobl sy'n daer angen tai yn unig rydym yn eu hannog i fynd ar restr aros am dŷ cyngor; bydd rhai pobl nad ydynt 'mewn angen' fel y cyfryw yn awyddus i symud o fewn yr ardal, mae ganddynt resymau heblaw bod mewn cartref anniogel ar hyn o bryd.
Felly, rwy'n cymeradwyo pwynt y cwestiwn, sef sut rydym yn asesu angen, mewn gwirionedd, ledled Cymru. Rydym yn gwneud hynny mewn nifer o ffyrdd. Rydym yn monitro, er enghraifft, yr unedau a osodir fel unedau tai cymdeithasol. Felly, ar 31 Mawrth 2019, roedd gan Gymru gyfanswm o 231,408 uned o dai cymdeithasol wedi'u gosod. Cynyddodd nifer yr unedau a osodwyd o'r newydd 4 y cant yn 2018-19 i 21,135, roedd 61 y cant o'r rheini ar y rhestr aros am dai, cynnydd o 2 y cant ers y flwyddyn flaenorol i 12,863 o'r rheini. Gwelwyd cynnydd eto yng nghyfran y gosodiadau i aelwydydd a gafodd eu hailgartrefu ar sail blaenoriaeth am eu bod yn ddigartref, a chynyddodd nifer cyffredinol y mathau o osodiadau 15 y cant ers y flwyddyn flaenorol.
Felly, rydym yn mynd o'i chwmpas hi y ffordd arall; rydym yn gwneud hyn drwy osodiadau yn hytrach na'r rhestr, os ydych chi'n deall yr hyn rwy'n ei olygu. Wedi dweud hynny, fodd bynnag, rydym yn annog rhestrau tai cyfun mewn rhai ardaloedd, gan fod manteision eraill, ar wahân i ddeall yr angen—yn enwedig y ffaith y gallwch wneud un cais mewn ardaloedd sydd â rhestr dai gyfun a chael eich ystyried gan yr holl landlordiaid cymdeithasol. Mae gennym restr gyfun mewn 19 o'r 22 awdurdod lleol. Mae gennym dri awdurdod heb restrau cyfun, ac mae ganddynt drefniadau partneriaeth gwahanol. Yr hyn nad ydym yn dymuno'i weld yw rhywun yn gorfod gwneud cais i lawer o wahanol landlordiaid i gaffael eu cartref cymdeithasol.
Mae gennyf ymchwil yn mynd rhagddo ar hyn o bryd i edrych ar sut y gallem restru'r angen am dai, yn hytrach na'r bobl sydd am fod ar y rhestr aros am dai. Nid wyf am annog pobl nad ydynt 'mewn angen' rhag mynd ar y rhestrau aros hynny. Ceir nifer fawr o bobl sy'n gwybod, efallai, nad ydynt am gyrraedd y brig mewn system sy'n seiliedig ar bwyntiau, ond sydd, serch hynny, am gofrestru am dŷ cyngor gan fod rhai ohonynt yn dod ar gael mewn amgylchiadau eraill. Felly, mae'r gwaith ymchwil hwnnw ar y gweill gennyf, ac rwy'n gobeithio gallu ei gyhoeddi yn yr wythnosau nesaf.
After social housing waiting list figures for 2018 were published, showing more than 16,500 households on social housing waiting lists in Wales, Shelter Cymru referred to the situation as a housing crisis. But, of course, it was during the second Assembly, when the Homes for All Cymru campaign, including Shelter, warned that there would be a housing crisis if the Welsh Government didn't reverse its new social housing cuts—in fact, cut by over 70 per cent in the first three terms of the Assembly.
Reducing pressure on social housing waiting lists includes—and I agree with you on this—greater supply of broader affordable housing, whether that's intermediate rent or low-cost home ownership. Why, therefore, do you think it is that the NHBC's new homes registered figures published a month ago, for 2019, show that, although new homes registered in England and Scotland went up, they fell in Wales from 5,448 to 4,769?
Ar ôl cyhoeddi ffigurau rhestrau aros am dai cymdeithasol ar gyfer 2018, a oedd yn nodi bod mwy na 16,500 o aelwydydd ar restrau aros am dai cymdeithasol yng Nghymru, cyfeiriodd Shelter Cymru at y sefyllfa fel argyfwng tai. Ond wrth gwrs, yn ystod yr ail Gynulliad, pan rybuddiodd ymgyrch Cartrefi i Bawb Cymru, gan gynnwys Shelter, y byddai argyfwng tai pe na bai Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwrthdroi ei thoriadau i dai cymdeithasol newydd—mewn gwirionedd, gwelwyd toriad o 70 y cant yn nhri thymor cyntaf y Cynulliad.
Mae lleddfu'r pwysau ar restrau aros am dai cymdeithasol yn cynnwys—ac rwy'n cytuno â chi ar hyn—cyflenwad mwy o dai fforddiadwy mwy eang, boed hynny drwy renti canolradd neu berchentyaeth cost isel. Pam, felly, y credwch fod ffigurau cofrestredig y Cyngor Cenedlaethol Adeiladu Tai ar gyfer cartrefi newydd, a gyhoeddwyd fis yn ôl ar gyfer 2019, yn dangos, er i nifer y cartrefi newydd a gofrestrwyd yn Lloegr a'r Alban gynyddu, eu bod wedi gostwng yng Nghymru o 5,448 i 4,769?
That's a wholly different topic—the subject of new build, not social housing. I do find it extraordinary that, on the Conservative benches, you stand up and berate us for not building social housing when you wouldn't take the housing revenue account caps off us until the end of last year, and you stopped us using houses sold from the social sector into the private sector—. You stopped us using that money to build new social housing. I just think that you have got the brass neck of—. Well, I am speechless with your brass neck, to be honest—[Laughter.]—that you've actually put that to me. The reason that we have dire social housing need is because you sold the social housing stock.
Mae hwnnw'n bwnc cwbl wahanol—pwnc adeiladu o'r newydd, nid tai cymdeithasol. Rwy'n rhyfeddu eich bod, ar feinciau'r Ceidwadwyr, yn ein cystwyo am beidio ag adeiladu tai cymdeithasol a chithau heb gael gwared ar gapiau'r cyfrif refeniw tai tan ddiwedd y llynedd, a chawsom ein hatal gennych rhag defnyddio tai a werthir o'r sector cymdeithasol i'r sector preifat—. Cawsom ein hatal gennych rhag defnyddio'r arian hwnnw i adeiladu tai cymdeithasol newydd. Credaf fod eich haerllugrwydd—. Wel, rwy'n fud gan syndod at eich haerllugrwydd, a dweud y gwir—[Chwerthin.]—am awgrymu hynny i mi. Y rheswm pam fod gennym angen dybryd am dai cymdeithasol yw am eich bod wedi gwerthu'r stoc tai cymdeithasol.
Minister, the—[Interruption.]
Weinidog, mae'r—[Torri ar draws.]
You stopped us, having the HRA cap—[Interruption.]
Gwnaethoch ein hatal, drwy gael y cap ar y cyfrif refeniw tai—[Torri ar draws.]
No. Thank you. We're not having this across the Chamber. You'll go through the Chair, and I have just called another Member to speak—Huw Irranca-Davies.
Na. Diolch. Nid ydym am gael hyn ar draws y Siambr. Mae angen i chi fynd drwy'r Cadeirydd, ac rwyf newydd alw ar Aelod arall i siarad—Huw Irranca-Davies.
I'm pleased to say that the Minister has never been speechless. But, could I say, we're not alone in Ogmore in having people on the social housing list waiting for accommodation, for different types of units, and at the same time we have many empty properties, often above shops, in the Valleys, that with the grants that are now available from Welsh Government for regeneration, with a bit of joined-up thinking, could be turned into social housing units? So, how does a council like Bridgend, a council leader like Huw David, and his officials, engage with Welsh Government to join this up and say, 'Well, we can develop as a local authority, with other housing associations, those derelict properties to turn them into lovely homes for people'?
Rwy'n falch o ddweud nad yw'r Gweinidog erioed wedi bod yn fud. Ond a gaf fi ddweud, nid ydym ni yn Ogwr ar ein pennau ein hunain wrth gael pobl ar y rhestr dai cymdeithasol yn aros am lety am wahanol fathau o unedau, ac ar yr un pryd, mae gennym lawer o eiddo gwag, yn aml uwchben siopau, yn y Cymoedd, y gellid eu troi, gyda'r grantiau sydd bellach ar gael gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer adfywio, gydag ychydig o feddwl cydgysylltiedig, yn unedau tai cymdeithasol? Felly, sut y mae cyngor fel Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, arweinydd cyngor fel Huw David, a'i swyddogion, yn ymgysylltu â Llywodraeth Cymru i gydgysylltu hyn a dweud, 'Wel, fel awdurdod lleol, gyda chymdeithasau tai eraill, gallwn ddatblygu'r eiddo gwag hyn i'w troi'n gartrefi hyfryd i bobl'?
Yes, you're absolutely right, and we have a number of examples of that. My colleague Hannah Blythyn has been touring Wales, looking at various examples of bringing exactly that kind of property back into use. And we have a number of schemes that allow—. In circumstances where those properties are owned in the private sector, we have a number of schemes that allow those private landlords to come forward and give the property up for social rent for five years, in return for returning the property to a liveable standard and so on. And, in a recent meeting with Newport council, for example, we were shown a set of schemes in the centre of Newport in which the properties above the shops had been brought back into beneficial use. That provides homes for people, but it also provides vibrancy and much needed footfall in the town centre, and my colleague Hannah Blythyn has been pushing our regeneration initiative in town centres for exactly that reason.
Ie, rydych yn llygad eich lle, ac mae gennym nifer o enghreifftiau o hynny. Mae fy nghyd-Aelod, Hannah Blythyn, wedi bod ar daith o amgylch Cymru yn edrych ar enghreifftiau amrywiol o ddod â'r union fath hwnnw o eiddo yn ôl i ddefnydd. Ac mae gennym nifer o gynlluniau sy'n caniatáu—. Mewn amgylchiadau lle mae'r eiddo hwnnw'n berchen i'r sector preifat, mae gennym nifer o gynlluniau sy'n caniatáu i'r landlordiaid preifat hynny roi’r eiddo i’w rentu’n gymdeithasol am bum mlynedd, yn gyfnewid am ddychwelyd yr eiddo i safon y gellir byw ynddo ac yn y blaen. Ac mewn cyfarfod diweddar â chyngor Casnewydd, er enghraifft, dangoswyd set o gynlluniau inni yng nghanol Casnewydd, lle gwneir defnydd buddiol o'r eiddo uwchben y siopau unwaith eto. Mae hynny'n darparu cartrefi i bobl, ond mae hefyd yn darparu bywiogrwydd ac ymwelwyr mawr eu hangen â chanol y dref, ac mae fy nghyd-Aelod, Hannah Blythyn wedi bod yn gwthio ein menter adfywio yng nghanol trefi am yr union reswm hwnnw.
Minister, over the next five to 10 years, the number of one-person households is expected to increase by 15 to 20 per cent. We know we already have a shortage of good quality single-bedroomed accommodation available for social rent. There are around 60,000 single-bed social housing properties in Wales, but half of these are supported or sheltered housing. Minister, given that the majority of one-person households are in the under-65 age category, and expected to rise, what plans does your Government have to increase the number of single-bed properties available for social rent?
Weinidog, dros y pump i 10 mlynedd nesaf, mae disgwyl i nifer yr aelwydydd un person gynyddu 15 i 20 y cant. Rydym yn gwybod bod gennym eisoes brinder eiddo un ystafell wely o ansawdd da ar gael i'w rentu'n gymdeithasol. Ceir tua 60,000 o unedau tai cymdeithasol un ystafell wely yng Nghymru, ond mae hanner y rhain yn dai â chymorth neu’n dai gwarchod. Weinidog, o ystyried bod mwyafrif yr aelwydydd un person yn y categori dan 65 oed, a bod disgwyl i'r ffigur hwnnw godi, pa gynlluniau sydd gan eich Llywodraeth i gynyddu nifer yr eiddo un ystafell wely sydd ar gael i'w rentu’n gymdeithasol?
So, the system in Wales is that we expect the local authorities to make an assessment of housing need, and then we tailor our social housing grant to match that. We're in the process, as a result of the affordable housing review, of looking again at the way that we do social housing grants, and, Deputy Presiding Officer, I do hope to be able to bring forward an oral statement, certainly before the summer recess, detailing that. So, we've accepted the affordable housing review's recommendations in principle, but I want to bring forward an implementation plan that tells you how we're taking that forward. And part of the recommendations, if you remember from that review, were that we looked again at the way we did social housing grants, and we allowed it to be better targeted at the kinds of households that are coming forward.
Actually, a very large number of the single households in Wales are women over 70. So, you need very different accommodation for young, single households than you do for older households, and different arrangements, so we do need to have a very good assessment of housing need. But, in principle, I agree with you; we need to look again and see that our systems produce the kind of housing that we most need.
Y system yng Nghymru yw ein bod yn disgwyl i'r awdurdodau lleol wneud asesiad o’r angen am dai, ac yna byddwn yn teilwra ein grant tai cymdeithasol i gyd-fynd â hynny. O ganlyniad i'r adolygiad tai fforddiadwy, rydym yn y broses o edrych eto ar y ffordd rydym yn gweithredu grantiau tai cymdeithasol, ac rwy’n gobeithio gallu cyflwyno datganiad llafar yn manylu ar hynny, Ddirprwy Lywydd, yn sicr cyn toriad yr haf. Felly, rydym wedi derbyn argymhellion yr adolygiad tai fforddiadwy mewn egwyddor, ond rwyf eisiau cyflwyno cynllun gweithredu a fydd yn dweud wrthych sut rydym yn bwrw ymlaen â hynny. A rhan o'r argymhellion, os cofiwch o'r adolygiad hwnnw, oedd ein bod yn edrych eto ar y ffordd roeddem yn gweithredu grantiau tai cymdeithasol, a'n bod yn caniatáu iddo gael ei dargedu'n well at y mathau o aelwydydd a welwn.
Mewn gwirionedd, mae nifer fawr iawn o'r aelwydydd un person yng Nghymru yn fenywod dros 70 oed. Felly, mae angen tai gwahanol iawn ar aelwydydd un person ifanc na'r hyn sydd ei angen ar gyfer aelwydydd hŷn, a threfniadau gwahanol hefyd, felly mae angen i ni gael asesiad da iawn o’r angen am dai. Ond rwy'n cytuno â chi mewn egwyddor; mae angen inni edrych eto a gweld bod ein systemau'n cynhyrchu'r math o dai rydym eu hangen fwyaf.
We now turn to spokespeople's questions. Conservative spokesperson, David Melding.
Trown yn awr at gwestiynau gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, David Melding.
Deputy Presiding Officer, I rise with some trepidation, given the slightly dramatic exchanges earlier, but if I can pursue my duties here of scrutiny. Does the Minister still believe that the target of building 20,000 affordable homes over the Assembly term will be met? By my calculation, you've got 6,500 to go in 13 months or so. And where is the current shortfall? Is it more with social homes, or those under the Help to Buy and similar schemes?
Ddirprwy Lywydd, rwy'n codi gyda rhywfaint o anesmwythder, o ystyried y sylwadau ychydig yn ddramatig a gafwyd yn gynharach, ond os caf arfer fy nyletswyddau craffu yma. A yw'r Gweinidog yn dal i gredu y bydd y targed o adeiladu 20,000 o dai fforddiadwy dros dymor y Cynulliad yn cael ei gyrraedd? Yn ôl fy nghyfrifiad, mae gennych 6,500 o dai i’w hadeiladu mewn oddeutu 13 mis. A lle mae prinder ar hyn o bryd? A yw'n fwy o ran cartrefi cymdeithasol, neu o ran y cynllun Cymorth i Brynu a chynlluniau tebyg?
So, yes, we do expect the 20,000 target to be met. In fact, we've already exceeded the bit of it that was Help to Buy and so on. However, I've answered on a number of occasions across this Chamber issues around what we mean by 'affordable.' And the 20,000 homes was very much set in the definition of affordable that we had at that time, and in the light of the exchange we just had across the floor, in the light of the cap still being very firmly in place on the housing revenue accounts in local authorities, preventing them from borrowing and reinvesting in social housing. Since then, since that target was set, that's changed, and so we've moved our focus very firmly on to building at pace and scale for social housing because that's the biggest gap. We still need private sector housing to come forward, but we have a bigger catch-up on social housing than we do on private sector housing, and, just this morning, my colleague Lee Waters and I had a feisty, but very constructive meeting with the Home Builders Federation to discuss how the two sectors could come together and make the best of the land supply here in Wales.
Rydym yn disgwyl cyrraedd y targed o 20,000. Mewn gwirionedd, rydym eisoes wedi rhagori ar y rhan ohono a oedd yn dai Cymorth i Brynu ac ati. Fodd bynnag, ar sawl achlysur ar draws y Siambr hon, rwyf wedi ateb cwestiynau'n ymwneud â'r hyn a olygwn wrth 'fforddiadwy.' Ac roedd 20,000 o gartrefi, i raddau helaeth, yn seiliedig ar y diffiniad o fforddiadwy a oedd gennym bryd hynny, ac o ystyried y sylwadau rydym newydd eu cael yn y Siambr, yng ngoleuni'r cap sy’n parhau i fod yn gadarn iawn ar gyfrifon refeniw tai awdurdodau lleol yn eu hatal rhag benthyca ac ail-fuddsoddi mewn tai cymdeithasol. Ers hynny, ers i'r targed gael ei osod, mae hynny wedi newid, ac felly rydym wedi symud ein ffocws yn gadarn iawn tuag at adeiladu'n gyflym ar raddfa fawr ar gyfer tai cymdeithasol am mai dyna'r bwlch mwyaf. Rydym angen tai sector preifat o hyd, ond mae gennym fwy o waith dal i fyny i’w wneud ar dai cymdeithasol nag ar dai yn y sector preifat, ac fe gafodd fy nghyd-Aelod, Lee Waters, a minnau gyfarfod bywiog ond adeiladol iawn y bore yma gyda'r Ffederasiwn Adeiladwyr Cartrefi i drafod sut y gallai'r ddau sector ddod at ei gilydd a gwneud y gorau o'r cyflenwad tir yma yng Nghymru.
Of course, Minister, if we increase supply in the market sector, particularly by bringing more competition and small and medium-sized enterprises in, then we would hope to see the price of houses steady, and make them, in that way, according to classic economics, more affordable. But, I think you're right in terms of, there's a lot of confusion about affordable housing—the category—because it mixes private and public. And I just wonder whether we would be better off moving to a definition now that focuses on social housing, housing for rent. And I think it's time, as all parties in this Chamber prepare their manifestos for next year's election, to be looking at realistic but ambitious targets for social housing in the 2020s. And it's my view that we need to be building in the region of 4,000 social homes a year, or 20,000 over the term of an Assembly, in the 2020s. Do you agree?
Wrth gwrs, Weinidog, os cynyddwn y cyflenwad yn sector y farchnad, yn enwedig drwy ddenu mwy o gystadleuaeth a mentrau bach a chanolig, byddem yn gobeithio gweld prisiau tai’n dod yn fwy sefydlog, a byddai hynny, yn y ffordd honno, yn ôl economeg glasurol, yn eu gwneud yn fwy fforddiadwy. Ond, rwy'n credu eich bod yn iawn pan ddywedwch fod llawer o ddryswch ynglŷn â thai fforddiadwy—y categori—oherwydd ei fod yn cymysgu’r sector preifat a’r sector cyhoeddus. Ac rwy'n meddwl tybed a fyddem yn well ein byd pe baem yn newid i ddiffiniad yn awr sy'n canolbwyntio ar dai cymdeithasol, tai i'w rhentu. Ac wrth i bob plaid yn y Siambr hon baratoi eu maniffestos ar gyfer etholiad y flwyddyn nesaf, rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bryd edrych ar dargedau realistig ond uchelgeisiol ar gyfer tai cymdeithasol yn y 2020au. Ac yn fy marn i, mae angen inni adeiladu oddeutu 4,000 o gartrefi cymdeithasol y flwyddyn, neu 20,000 dros dymor Cynulliad, yn y 2020au. A ydych yn cytuno?
I do very much agree. We need to look again at the definition of 'affordable', in the light of all of the powers now available to us, and in the light of the need. You're absolutely spot on on the figures, in terms of the social housing that we need, and that's just a catch-up to where we should be. And the conversation I had with Siân Gwenllian around how we define housing need, actually what we're talking about in the figures you've just quoted is just getting people out of temporary accommodation into permanent, secure accommodation. There may well be other categories of need that we currently don't meet at all, but that we would like to meet once we've got the people who really aren't in adequate housing into that kind of housing. So that's why it's a difficult balance to make.
The definition of 'affordable' though is worth exploring, because I don't want to—. Whilst I absolutely agree about houses for social rent, there are other models. There are co-operative and community models of home ownership, which are worth exploring, and which can also be made to be affordable. My own view is that the definition of 'affordable' needs to go beyond the point of sale. So, we have a definition of 'affordable' that includes Help to Buy, for example, and those homes are made more affordable by Government subsidy, so that's fine, but they aren't affordable on into their lifetime, because once they're sold the second time they go into the private sector. So I think there are some nuances that we need to look at, but, definitely, the thing needs a review.
Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr. Mae angen inni edrych eto ar y diffiniad o 'fforddiadwy', yng ngoleuni'r holl bwerau sydd bellach ar gael inni, ac yng ngoleuni'r angen. Rydych yn llygad eich lle o ran y ffigurau, o ran y tai cymdeithasol sydd eu hangen arnom, ac mae hynny ond yn golygu cyrraedd lle dylem fod. Ac o ran y sgwrs a gefais gyda Siân Gwenllian ynghylch sut rydym yn diffinio’r angen am dai, yr hyn rydym yn sôn amdano yn y ffigurau rydych newydd eu dyfynnu yw cael pobl allan o lety dros dro i mewn i lety parhaol, diogel. Mae'n ddigon posibl bod categorïau eraill o angen nad ydym yn eu diwallu o gwbl ar hyn o bryd, ond y byddem yn hoffi eu diwallu pan fyddwn wedi cael y bobl nad ydynt mewn tai digonol o gwbl ar hyn o bryd i mewn i dai o’r fath. Felly dyna pam ei bod yn anodd taro’r cydbwysedd hwnnw.
Ond mae'n werth archwilio'r diffiniad o 'fforddiadwy', oherwydd nid wyf eisiau—. Er fy mod yn cytuno'n llwyr am dai rhent cymdeithasol, ceir modelau eraill. Ceir modelau cydweithredol a chymunedol o berchentyaeth sy'n werth eu harchwilio, ac y gellir eu gwneud yn fforddiadwy hefyd. Credaf fod angen i'r diffiniad o 'fforddiadwy' fynd y tu hwnt i'r pwynt gwerthu. Felly, mae gennym ddiffiniad o 'fforddiadwy' sy'n cynnwys Cymorth i Brynu, er enghraifft, a chaiff y cartrefi hynny eu gwneud yn fwy fforddiadwy drwy gymhorthdal y Llywodraeth, felly mae hynny'n iawn, ond nid ydynt yn fforddiadwy drwy gydol eu hoes, oherwydd pan gânt eu gwerthu am yr eildro maent yn mynd i'r sector preifat. Felly rwy'n credu bod yn rhaid i ni edrych ar rai agweddau, ond yn bendant, mae angen cynnal adolygiad ohono.
If I may change to another subject—a very important concern—and that's whether you intend to meet with the residents at Celestia, the housing development on our own doorstep. I met with a group on Friday, and I know they'd be pleased to welcome you. The complexities of this case I do think make it something of a test case. The whole credibility of this style of development will be questioned if there is not some resolution to these complicated problems—many of them way beyond anything that could be anticipated by the residents. But I would like to know whether you are prepared, and whether you have any plans, to meet with them.
Os caf droi at bwnc arall—sy'n destun pryder pwysig iawn—sef a ydych yn bwriadu cyfarfod â'r preswylwyr yn Celestia, y datblygiad tai ar garreg ein drws ein hunain. Cyfarfûm â grŵp ddydd Gwener, a gwn y byddent yn falch o'ch croesawu. Rwy'n credu bod cymhlethdodau'r achos hwn yn ei wneud yn achos prawf. Bydd hygrededd y math hwn o ddatblygiad yn cael ei gwestiynu os na cheir rhyw ateb i'r problemau cymhleth hyn—ac mae llawer ohonynt ymhell y tu hwnt i unrhyw beth y gallai'r preswylwyr ei ragweld. Ond hoffwn wybod a ydych chi'n barod, ac a oes gennych unrhyw gynlluniau, i'w cyfarfod.
I would very much like to meet with them. I'm being advised not to do so until the outcome of their appeal, which I now understand isn't going to be until September of this year. I'm exploring with my officials whether we could set out parameters for the meeting, which would enable me to meet with them earlier. There are some things, because I'm the planning Minister, I'm just not allowed to comment on, but I feel sure we could get those parameters. My colleague Vaughan Gething has also asked if I could look at that. So I'm very happy to ask for more official advice on that.
And we're also monitoring very carefully the developments at the UK level. There have been some announcements—or semi-announcements—around things like the Leasehold Advisory Service, Lease, and so on, which we're monitoring very carefully, because we want to make sure that, whatever is announced at UK level, is fit for purpose here in Wales. And David Melding, I know, knows better than anybody in the Chamber the nuances, or the ragged edges, of devolution around land law and property law and housing, and so we are walking a little bit on egg shells—to mix my metaphors terribly—in trying to decide quite what it is we can do. But we are looking at voluntary schemes, for example, for managing agents, and voluntary schemes for estate agents, that we can do some sort of accreditation for, to make sure that people do understand as much as possible at the point of sale, and then afterwards have some kind of ongoing guarantee from the people with whom they're in privity of contract—so the builders, and so on. So I will absolutely ask again for that advice. At the moment, as I said, I'm being advised not to meet them until after the date of the appeal, which I understand is now September 2020.
Hoffwn yn fawr iawn eu cyfarfod. Rwy'n cael fy nghynghori i beidio â gwneud hynny tan y daw canlyniad eu hapêl, a deallaf yn awr na fydd hynny’n digwydd tan fis Medi eleni. Rwy'n edrych i weld gyda fy swyddogion a allem osod paramedrau ar gyfer y cyfarfod, a fyddai'n fy ngalluogi i'w cyfarfod yn gynharach. Am mai fi yw'r Gweinidog cynllunio, mae yna rai pethau nad oes gennyf hawl i wneud sylwadau arnynt, ond rwy'n siŵr y gallem gael y paramedrau hynny. Mae fy nghyd-Aelod, Vaughan Gething, hefyd wedi gofyn i mi edrych ar hynny. Felly rwy'n hapus iawn i ofyn am fwy o gyngor swyddogol ar hynny.
Ac rydym hefyd yn monitro'r datblygiadau ar lefel y DU yn ofalus iawn. Cafwyd rhai cyhoeddiadau—neu led-gyhoeddiadau—ynghylch pethau fel y Gwasanaeth Cynghori ar Lesddaliadau, Lease, ac ati, sy'n cael eu monitro gennym yn ofalus iawn, oherwydd rydym eisiau sicrhau bod beth bynnag a gyhoeddir ar lefel y DU yn addas at y diben yma yng Nghymru. A gwn fod David Melding yn fwy ymwybodol na neb yn y Siambr o fanylion, neu ymylon carpiog, datganoli mewn perthynas â chyfraith tir a chyfraith eiddo a thai, ac felly rydym yn cerdded ar bigau'r drain i raddau—i gymysgu fy nhrosiadau yn ofnadwy—wrth geisio penderfynu beth yn union y gallwn ei wneud. Ond rydym yn edrych ar gynlluniau gwirfoddol, er enghraifft, ar gyfer asiantau rheoli, a chynlluniau gwirfoddol ar gyfer gwerthwyr tai, y gallwn sicrhau rhyw fath o achrediad ar eu cyfer, er mwyn sicrhau bod pobl yn deall cymaint â phosibl ar y pwynt gwerthu, ac yna, ar ôl hynny, cael rhyw fath o warant barhaus gan y bobl y mae ganddynt gontract â hwy—felly'r adeiladwyr, ac ati. Felly, yn sicr, byddaf yn gofyn am y cyngor hwnnw eto. Ar hyn o bryd, fel y dywedais, rwy'n cael fy nghynghori i beidio â'u cyfarfod tan ar ôl dyddiad yr apêl, a deallaf yn awr mai ym mis Medi 2020 fydd hwnnw.
Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Delyth Jewell.
Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Delyth Jewell.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Minister, I'd like to ask you a few questions about what action your Government is taking to help local authorities prepare to deal with the coronavirus outbreak. Firstly, I'd like to ask about home carers and the people that they care for. Does the Government have confidence that local authorities will have the capacity to ensure continued care for people who need it, if the carers themselves become ill—be they unpaid relatives or care workers in residential homes? Now, I'm aware that plans have been mooted to bring retired health workers back into the workforce within the NHS. Is this being considered for the care sector as well? And finally, can you confirm that additional resources will be made available to councils to cover any additional costs that will be accrued?
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Weinidog, hoffwn ofyn ychydig o gwestiynau i chi ynglŷn â pha gamau y mae eich Llywodraeth yn eu cymryd i helpu awdurdodau lleol i baratoi i ymdopi â'r achosion o coronafeirws. Yn gyntaf, hoffwn ofyn am ofalwyr cartref a'r bobl y maent yn gofalu amdanynt. A oes gan y Llywodraeth hyder y bydd gan awdurdodau lleol gapasiti i sicrhau gofal parhaus i bobl sydd ei angen, os bydd y gofalwyr eu hunain yn mynd yn sâl—boed yn berthnasau di-dâl, neu'n weithwyr gofal mewn cartrefi preswyl? Nawr, rwy'n ymwybodol fod cynlluniau wedi'u crybwyll i ddenu gweithwyr iechyd sydd wedi ymddeol yn ol i weithlu'r GIG. A yw hyn yn cael ei ystyried ar gyfer y sector gofal hefyd? Ac yn olaf, a allwch chi gadarnhau y bydd adnoddau ychwanegol ar gael i gynghorau i dalu unrhyw gostau ychwanegol a ddaw yn sgil hynny?
We had a special Cabinet meeting just this morning to discuss preparedness for the coronavirus outbreak, attended by all Cabinet colleagues. We've been working for some time with the local resilience fora and local authorities to make sure that we have the best possible plan. Obviously we're planning for the reasonable worst outcome, whilst hoping for the best possible outcome, but you have got to do both of those. So, we have of course discussed things like the ramifications of sickness in the various workforces, sickness in the local authorities, mutual assistance, all of the things that—. I've very pleased to say that the local resilience fora are well advanced on plans for a pandemic, not for this specific virus, but for pandemic planning. That's been going on for many, many years. And so we have got well-advanced plans for that. We don't want people to panic unnecessarily, so they should be reassured that those plans exist. They also include incorporation of large numbers of third sector bodies with whom we routinely work on public service issues—the Red Cross, voluntary councils and so on. So, we're very much planning for that reasonable worst case scenario, whilst very much hoping for the best possible outcome.
Cawsom gyfarfod arbennig o'r Cabinet y bore yma i drafod parodrwydd ar gyfer yr achosion o coronafeirws, ac roedd yr holl aelodau o'r Cabinet yn bresennol. Rydym wedi bod yn gweithio ers peth amser gyda'r fforymau cydnerthedd lleol a'r awdurdodau lleol i wneud yn siŵr fod gennym y cynllun gorau posibl. Yn amlwg rydym yn cynllunio ar gyfer y canlyniad gwaethaf rhesymol, tra'n gobeithio am y canlyniad gorau posibl, ond mae'n rhaid i chi wneud y ddau beth hynny. Felly, wrth gwrs, rydym wedi trafod pethau fel goblygiadau salwch yn y gwahanol weithluoedd, salwch yn yr awdurdodau lleol, cymorth ar y cyd, yr holl bethau sy'n—. Rwy'n falch iawn o ddweud bod y fforymau cydnerthedd lleol ar y blaen mewn perthynas â chynlluniau ar gyfer pandemig, nid ar gyfer y feirws penodol hwn, ond cynlluniau ar gyfer pandemig. Mae hynny wedi bod yn digwydd ers blynyddoedd lawer. Ac felly mae gennym gynlluniau da ar gyfer hynny. Nid ydym eisiau i bobl gynhyrfu'n ddiangen, felly dylent gael sicrwydd fod y cynlluniau hynny'n bodoli. Maent hefyd yn cynnwys nifer fawr o gyrff yn y trydydd sector y gweithiwn gyda hwy'n rheolaidd ar faterion gwasanaethau cyhoeddus—y Groes Goch, cynghorau gwirfoddol ac yn y blaen. Felly, rydym yn sicr yn cynllunio ar gyfer y senario achos gwaethaf rhesymol, gan obeithio'n fawr am y canlyniad gorau posibl.
Thank you for those answers, Minister. That is reassuring, to hear that you've been discussing this literally this morning, and that the plans are in place. Obviously, where it's appropriate, it would be good to have sight of those, but I appreciate that there'll be some things that can't be shared at the same time.
You mentioned sickness in the workforce. Current advice issued by Public Health Wales is that those suspecting they have coronavirus should self-quarantine until a negative test is received. An issue that was raised in the Chamber yesterday was that of zero-hours contracts, but I think that the issue also applies to those who are self-employed or on low wages, where if those people lose shifts, they will also lose wages. We know that many people in the social care sector are on low wages, and are not benefiting from lots of employment protections as we would like to see them benefiting from.
It's particularly important that we prevent the virus spreading into residential care homes, I'm sure that you'll agree with that point, and so people working in these homes would need to have reassurance that if they don't come into work, they would be protected in that way. So, are you in a position to be able to guarantee that those workers who are often employed by local councils would not be facing any economic loss if they follow official health advice and don't go into work if they are suspected and have to self-quarantine? I don't mean just in the short term—sorry, I mean in the short term, not just hypothetical, longer term paying back if they were to develop the symptoms later.
Diolch ichi am yr atebion hynny, Weinidog. Mae hynny'n galonogol, clywed eich bod wedi bod yn trafod hyn y bore yma yn llythrennol, a bod y cynlluniau ar waith. Yn amlwg, lle mae'n briodol, byddai'n dda cael gweld y rheini, ond rwy'n sylweddoli y bydd rhai pethau na ellir eu rhannu ar yr un pryd.
Fe sonioch chi am salwch yn y gweithlu. Y cyngor a roddir ar hyn o bryd gan Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yw y dylai'r rhai sy'n amau bod coronafeirws arnynt roi eu hunain mewn cwarantîn hyd nes y ceir prawf negyddol. Un mater a godwyd yn y Siambr ddoe oedd contractau dim oriau, ond credaf fod y mater hwn hefyd yn berthnasol i'r rheini sy'n hunangyflogedig neu ar gyflogau isel, lle bydd y bobl hynny'n colli eu cyflogau os byddant yn colli sifftiau. Gwyddom fod llawer o bobl yn y sector gofal cymdeithasol ar gyflogau isel, ac nad ydynt yn gallu manteisio ar lawer o'r amddiffyniadau cyflogaeth yr hoffem eu gweld yn manteisio arnynt.
Mae'n arbennig o bwysig ein bod yn atal y feirws rhag ymledu i gartrefi gofal preswyl, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddwch yn cytuno â'r pwynt hwnnw, ac felly byddai angen i bobl sy'n gweithio yn y cartrefi hyn gael sicrwydd y byddent yn cael eu diogelu yn y ffordd honno os nad ydynt yn mynd i'r gwaith. Felly, a ydych mewn sefyllfa i allu gwarantu na fyddai'r gweithwyr a gyflogir yn aml gan gynghorau lleol yn wynebu unrhyw golled economaidd pe baent yn dilyn cyngor iechyd swyddogol ac yn peidio â mynd i'r gwaith os ydynt yn amau bod coronafeirws arnynt ac yn gorfod rhoi eu hunain mewn cwarantîn? Nid dim ond yn y tymor byr—mae'n ddrwg gennyf, rwy'n golygu yn y tymor byr, nid ad-daliad damcaniaethol yn y tymor hwy pe baent yn datblygu'r symptomau'n ddiweddarach.
I totally understand the point you're making. There are various categories of workers. So, certainly people employed by the local authority will be covered straight away. The Prime Minister, you will know, made some announcements about the first three days sick—some workers don't get paid for the first three days sick. That's not the case in most public services in Wales, I'm pleased to say.
But we did have a long conversation in the Cabinet this morning about some of the economic issues that arose, which my colleagues Ken Skates and Lee Waters will be looking at. But if I could just make the analogy—a poor one, I know—to the flooding that's just gone on. We have, of course, been anxious to put in place schemes for self-employed and businesspeople affected by the flooding. So, we will be ensuring that those types of schemes also exist for people who are in those circumstances, and, probably by way of assisting the businesses, hoping to help the people in the gig economy, as it's very difficult to get individual help in that way, so helping with cashflow and so on to keep that going. But we will be very much reliant, if the thing goes on a very long time, on the UK Government stepping up to the plate and making sure that it pays for issues in England in such a way that we get the consequential moneys that we so very much need in Wales to be able to protect our workforce.
Rwy'n deall y pwynt rydych yn ei wneud yn iawn. Mae amryw o gategorïau o weithwyr. Felly, yn sicr bydd pobl a gyflogir gan yr awdurdod lleol yn cael eu talu o'r cychwyn. Mae'r Prif Weinidog, fe wyddoch, wedi gwneud cyhoeddiadau ynglŷn â thri diwrnod cyntaf y salwch—nid yw rhai gweithwyr yn cael eu talu am y tridiau cyntaf. Rwy'n falch o ddweud nad yw hynny'n wir yn y rhan fwyaf o wasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru.
Ond cawsom sgwrs hir yn y Cabinet y bore yma am rai o'r problemau economaidd a gododd, a bydd fy nghyd-Aelodau Ken Skates a Lee Waters yn edrych arnynt. Ond os caf wneud cymhariaeth—un wael, rwy'n gwybod—â'r llifogydd sydd newydd ddigwydd. Wrth gwrs, rydym wedi bod yn awyddus i sefydlu cynlluniau ar gyfer pobl fusnes a phobl hunangyflogedig yr effeithiwyd arnynt gan y llifogydd. Felly, byddwn yn sicrhau bod y mathau hynny o gynlluniau'n bodoli hefyd ar gyfer pobl yn yr amgylchiadau hynny, ac yn ôl pob tebyg, drwy helpu'r busnesau, gan obeithio helpu'r bobl yn economi'r GIG, gan ei bod yn anodd iawn cael help unigol yn y ffordd honno, gallwn helpu gyda llif arian ac yn y blaen i gadw hynny i fynd. Ond byddwn yn dibynnu'n fawr, os aiff y peth ymlaen am amser hir iawn, ar Lywodraeth y DU i gamu i'r adwy a gwneud yn siŵr ei bod yn talu am bethau yn Lloegr yn y fath fodd fel ein bod yn cael yr arian canlyniadol y mae cymaint o'i angen arnom yng Nghymru er mwyn i ni allu amddiffyn ein gweithlu.
Thank you for that. I again appreciate that in some of this there's uncertainty because of what role the UK Government will be playing. Obviously, I'm sure you'll agree that the sooner we have clarity on this the better for everyone.
So, finally, I'd like to turn to the issue of enforcement. By my understanding, in Wales it's the local authorities' health officers who are responsible for issuing directives for individual to self-isolate if they believe it's necessary. And the question is: who is responsible for enforcing such a directive? There's clarity in England that the police have that authority, following the Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020 that were passed on 10 February. Again, it's my understanding that those regulations don't extend to Wales, but the Welsh Government does have the powers to bring forth its own equivalent regulations. Could you tell me whether it's the Government's intention to do so, and if so, when?
Diolch am hynny. Rwy'n sylweddoli unwaith eto fod yna ansicrwydd ynghlwm wrth rywfaint o hyn oherwydd y rôl y bydd Llywodraeth y DU yn ei chwarae. Yn amlwg, rwy'n siŵr y byddwch yn cytuno mai gorau po gyntaf y cawn eglurder ar hyn i bawb.
Felly, yn olaf, hoffwn droi at fater gorfodaeth. Yn ôl fy nealltwriaeth i, yng Nghymru, swyddogion iechyd yr awdurdodau lleol sy'n gyfrifol am roi cyfarwyddebau i unigolion hunanynysu os credant fod angen gwneud hynny. A'r cwestiwn yw: pwy sy'n gyfrifol am orfodi cyfarwyddeb o'r fath? Mae'n glir mai'r heddlu sydd â'r awdurdod yn Lloegr, yn dilyn Rheoliadau Diogelu Iechyd (Coronafeirws) 2020 a basiwyd ar 10 Chwefror. Unwaith eto, fy nealltwriaeth i yw nad yw'r rheoliadau hynny'n cynnwys Cymru, ond mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru bwerau i gyflwyno ei rheoliadau cyfatebol ei hun. A allech chi ddweud wrthyf a yw'n fwriad gan y Llywodraeth i wneud hynny, ac os felly, pryd?
We're currently considering the legislation that's been mooted by the UK Government, which is specific to the coronavirus, which I slightly regret because I think it should be a pandemic piece of legislation rather than specific. And once we've got clarity on exactly what that will contain, we'll be able to come forward with what we need to fill in the gaps for Wales, if I can put it that way, and until we have some clarity, we haven't taken that decision.
At the moment, though, we have good partnership working with all of our local authorities through the partnership council for Wales and through our police board. My colleague Jane Hutt is about to chair one of the meetings with police colleagues, so we're pretty sure we'll be able to sort it out locally anyway, but we will want to look at what the regulations will need to look like once we see what the UK Government is proposing in its overarching Bill.
Ar hyn o bryd, rydym yn ystyried y ddeddfwriaeth a grybwyllwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU, sy'n benodol i'r coronafeirws, ac rwy’n gresynu rhywfaint oherwydd credaf y dylai fod yn ddeddfwriaeth ar gyfer pandemig yn hytrach na deddfwriaeth benodol. A phan gawn eglurder ynglŷn â beth yn union fydd y ddeddfwriaeth honno’n ei gynnwys, byddwn yn gallu cyflwyno'r hyn rydym ei angen i lenwi'r bylchau yng Nghymru, os caf ei roi felly, a hyd nes y cawn rywfaint o eglurder, ni allwn wneud y penderfyniad hwnnw.
Ar hyn o bryd, fodd bynnag, mae gennym bartneriaeth dda yn gweithio gyda'n holl awdurdodau drwy gyngor partneriaeth Cymru a’n bwrdd heddlu. Mae fy nghyd-Aelod, Jane Hutt, ar fin cadeirio un o'r cyfarfodydd gyda chydweithwyr yn yr heddlu, felly rydym yn eithaf sicr y byddwn yn gallu ei ddatrys yn lleol beth bynnag, ond byddwn eisiau edrych ar y math o reoliadau fydd eu hangen pan welwn yr hyn y mae Llywodraeth y DU yn ei gynnig yn ei Bil trosfwaol.
Question 3 [OAQ55169] has been withdrawn. Question 4, Helen Mary Jones.
Mae cwestiwn 3 [OAQ55169] wedi'i dynnu'n ôl. Cwestiwn 4, Helen Mary Jones.
4. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am argaeledd tai cymdeithasol yn Sir Gaerfyrddin? OAQ55163
4. Will the Minister make a statement on the availability of social housing in Carmarthenshire? OAQ55163
Certainly. Social housing remains this Government's top housing priority and we are continuing to increase the provision of social homes in Carmarthenshire and across Wales. During 2018-19, in Carmarthenshire, we provided over £6.9 million-worth of funding through our social housing grant programme. In addition, £5.7 million has been invested through the innovative housing programme.
Yn sicr. Mae tai cymdeithasol yn parhau i fod yn brif flaenoriaeth tai y Llywodraeth hon ac rydym yn parhau i gynyddu'r ddarpariaeth o gartrefi cymdeithasol yn Sir Gaerfyrddin a ledled Cymru. Yn ystod 2018-19, yn Sir Gaerfyrddin, gwnaethom ddarparu gwerth dros £6.9 miliwn o gyllid drwy ein rhaglen grant tai cymdeithasol. Yn ogystal, buddsoddwyd £5.7 miliwn drwy'r rhaglen tai arloesol.
I'm grateful to the Minister for her answer. She'll know, and will be very pleased to know, that the Plaid Cymru-led administration there is a year ahead of target in delivering its initial 900 new council homes. And I know that the Minister will be glad that just yesterday, the local authority committed to a further 370 new homes over the next three years. And it does show what a local authority—with, indeed, I completely acknowledge, support from Welsh Government—is able to achieve when they're ready to give real leadership.
The Minister will probably be aware that the new plans in particular are looking at ways in which they can develop new housing stock that will be carbon neutral, and I know that that fits very much with the issues that the Minister has raised very much as part of her agenda. Can the Minister tell us today what further support the Welsh Government will be able to provide to local authorities to ensure that this success in Carmarthenshire can be replicated, I'm sure, elsewhere, particularly with regard to the de-carbonising of existing housing stock, which, of course, is, we all know, much more difficult to do than to build new carbon-neutral homes?
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Gweinidog am ei hateb. Fe fydd yn gwybod, ac fe fydd yn falch iawn o wybod, fod y weinyddiaeth yno o dan arweiniad Plaid Cymru, flwyddyn ar y blaen i'w targed cychwynnol o 900 o gartrefi cyngor newydd. A gwn y bydd y Gweinidog yn falch fod yr awdurdod lleol wedi ymrwymo ddoe ddiwethaf i adeiladu 370 o gartrefi newydd eraill dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Ac mae'n dangos beth y gall awdurdod lleol ei gyflawni—gyda chefnogaeth Llywodraeth Cymru yn wir, rwy'n cydnabod yn llwyr—pan fyddant yn barod i roi arweiniad go iawn.
Mae'n debyg y bydd y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol fod y cynlluniau newydd yn enwedig yn edrych ar ffyrdd y gallant ddatblygu stoc dai newydd a fydd yn niwtral o ran carbon, a gwn fod hynny'n cyd-fynd yn fawr â'r materion y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u codi'n rhan bendant o'i hagenda. A all y Gweinidog ddweud wrthym heddiw pa gefnogaeth bellach y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru'n gallu ei darparu i awdurdodau lleol i sicrhau y gellir ailadrodd y llwyddiant hwn yn Sir Gaerfyrddin mewn mannau eraill, yn enwedig o ran datgarboneiddio'r stoc dai bresennol, sydd, wrth gwrs, yn llawer anos nag adeiladu cartrefi carbon niwtral newydd fel y mae pawb ohonom yn gwybod?
Yes, indeed, I'm very pleased that Carmarthenshie have embraced the innovative housing programme in the way that they have. We've put £5.7 million in, as I think I've already said, in the first few years to deliver 39 very innovative homes in Carmarthenshire, to monitor them to see whether they do what they say and to bring forward plans to build very many more.
In 2018-19, Carmarthenshire, as a stock-retaining authority, were allocated funding of £2.8 million to support the build of new council housing through the affordable housing grant, and then another £1.8 million in 2019-20. As I was just saying in response to an earlier question, we are looking, as a result of the affordable housing review, at the way that we do grants. The affordable housing review wanted us to look at the way we do grants for building new housing, but it also wanted us to look at the way that we do what's called 'dowry' for the large stock transfers and for the stock-retaining councils. And when I bring forward the oral statement, Deputy Presiding Officer, which I mentioned earlier, we will be covering off what we are expecting in return for what is a very substantial investment in terms of bringing existing stock—once we've done the Welsh housing quality standard, which we have—up another level. And so, that work is ongoing and I hope to be able to report it to the Assembly shortly.
Ie, yn wir, rwy'n falch iawn fod Caerfyrddin wedi bwrw iddi gyda'r rhaglen tai arloesol yn y ffordd a wnaethant. Fel y dywedais eisoes rwy'n credu, rydym wedi rhoi £5.7 miliwn i mewn yn yr ychydig flynyddoedd cyntaf er mwyn darparu 39 o gartrefi arloesol iawn yn Sir Gaerfyrddin, a'u monitro i weld a ydynt yn gwneud yr hyn y maent yn ei ddweud ac i gyflwyno cynlluniau i adeiladu llawer mwy ohonynt.
Yn 2018-19, dyrannwyd cyllid o £2.8 miliwn i Sir Gaerfyrddin, fel awdurdod cadw stoc, i gefnogi’r gwaith o adeiladu tai cyngor newydd drwy'r grant tai fforddiadwy, ac yna £1.8 miliwn arall yn 2019-20. Fel roeddwn yn ei ddweud mewn ymateb i gwestiwn cynharach, o ganlyniad i'r adolygiad tai fforddiadwy, rydym yn edrych ar y ffordd rydym yn gweithredu grantiau. Roedd yr adolygiad tai fforddiadwy eisiau inni edrych ar y ffordd rydym yn gweithredu grantiau ar gyfer adeiladu tai newydd, ond roedd hefyd eisiau inni edrych ar y ffordd rydym yn gweithredu'r hyn a elwir yn 'waddoli’ ar gyfer y trosglwyddiadau stoc mawr ac ar gyfer y cynghorau cadw stoc. A phan fyddaf yn cyflwyno’r datganiad llafar y soniais amdano’n gynharach, Ddirprwy Lywydd, byddwn yn cwmpasu'r hyn rydym yn ei ddisgwyl yn gyfnewid am fuddsoddiad sylweddol iawn o ran codi’r stoc bresennol—pan fyddwn wedi gwneud safon ansawdd tai Cymru, ac rydym wedi gwneud hynny—i lefel arall. Ac felly, mae'r gwaith hwnnw'n parhau ac rwy'n gobeithio gallu adrodd amdano wrth y Cynulliad yn fuan.
Minister, you have referenced the earlier question to Caroline Jones, when she was talking about single-person homes being built, and, of course, you've just talked about the affordable housing grant, but can you please tell me how this will reflect with people who live with disabilities and who are carers? I have a case in Carmarthenshire where the person is in a wheelchair—she's been in a wheelchair for many, many years—and she's now getting older. Her husband has quite severe dementia, but they can still live together, but it's proving extremely difficult. And, of course, these grants don't recognise that, simply because you live with a disability, it does not mean that you do not have caring responsibilities—either older people or younger people. But housing stock that can be provided by the social services and by the local councils doesn't always reflect that mix in a family—it is for a disabled person or a couple, but not with the extended family. So, are you able to give direction or do you have any news for them, because we talk about houses, as you just have with Helen Mary, that are fit for the future, that are nice and sustainable, but we actually need them also to be fit and sustainable for real-life families, and they come in all types of shapes, sizes and different nucleus.
Weinidog, rydych wedi cyfeirio'r cwestiwn cynharach at Caroline Jones, pan oedd yn siarad am adeiladu cartrefi un person, ac wrth gwrs, rydych newydd siarad am y grant tai fforddiadwy, ond a allwch chi ddweud wrthyf sut y bydd hyn yn edrych i bobl sy'n byw gydag anableddau ac sy'n ofalwyr? Mae gennyf achos yn Sir Gaerfyrddin lle mae'r person mewn cadair olwyn—mae wedi bod mewn cadair olwyn ers blynyddoedd lawer—ac mae bellach yn heneiddio. Mae gan ei gŵr ddementia eithaf difrifol, ac er eu bod yn dal i allu byw gyda'i gilydd, mae'n anodd dros ben. Ac wrth gwrs, nid yw'r grantiau hyn yn cydnabod nad yw’r ffaith eich bod yn byw gydag anabledd yn golygu nad oes gennych gyfrifoldebau gofalu—naill ai pobl hŷn neu bobl iau. Ond nid yw stoc dai y gellir ei darparu gan y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a chan y cynghorau lleol bob amser yn adlewyrchu'r gymysgedd honno mewn teulu—mae ar gyfer person anabl neu bâr, ond nid gyda'r teulu estynedig. Felly, a ydych yn gallu rhoi cyfeiriad neu a oes gennych unrhyw newyddion ar eu cyfer, oherwydd fel rydych newydd ei wneud gyda Helen Mary, rydym yn sôn am dai sy'n addas ar gyfer y dyfodol, sy'n ddymunol ac yn gynaliadwy, ond rydym angen iddynt fod yn addas ac yn gynaliadwy ar gyfer teuluoedd go iawn hefyd, ac mae yna deuluoedd o bob maint a ffurf, ag iddynt greiddiau gwahanol.
Yes, I absolutely agree, and I recognise the problem from my own case load as well. Of course, we have a whole series of adaptations and care and repair schemes that do attempt to bring current stock up to the standard necessary for people to able to maintain complex lifestyles of various sorts.
In terms of the new build that we're putting together, you will have heard me speak in the Chamber many times of housing for life, and so what we're looking to do, especially with the modular housing programme, is have a house that is built in the first place, so that it has accessible doorways, has plugs at the right height—it has all of those things, but also it can have bedrooms added, and subtracted even, as the family grows and contracts, and has all the things like wide stairs, wide doorways, level—all that sort of stuff. So, in the future, we will certainly be expecting our houses to conform to that, and we are building them. I visited one in my colleague Huw Irancca-Davies's constituency very recently that was conforming to just that pattern.
But in terms of the existing housing stock, obviously that can be very much more difficult, and in some cases impossible to do. But where it is possible, then the local authority should be able to assist through the adaptation scheme and through care and repair. If she is having particular problem with a particular constituent—if she wants to write in and I'll see what I can do.
Oes, rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr, ac rwy'n cydnabod y broblem yn fy llwyth achosion fy hun hefyd. Wrth gwrs, mae gennym gyfres gyfan o addasiadau a chynlluniau gofal a thrwsio sy'n ceisio sicrhau bod y stoc bresennol yn cyrraedd y safon angenrheidiol er mwyn i bobl allu cynnal ffyrdd o fyw cymhleth ac amrywiol.
O ran y gwaith adeiladu newydd rydym yn ei roi at ei gilydd, fe fyddwch wedi fy nghlywed yn siarad yn y Siambr ar sawl achlysur am dai am oes, ac felly yr hyn rydym yn gobeithio ei wneud, yn enwedig gyda'r rhaglen dai fodiwlaidd, yw adeiladu tŷ, yn y lle cyntaf, sydd â drysau hygyrch, plygiau ar yr uchder cywir—mae ganddo'r holl bethau hynny, ond hefyd gellir ychwanegu ystafelloedd gwely, a'u tynnu hyd yn oed, wrth i'r teulu dyfu a lleihau, ac mae ganddo bethau fel grisiau llydan, drysau llydan, ar y gwastad—pob math o bethau. Felly, yn y dyfodol, byddwn yn sicr yn disgwyl i'n tai gydymffurfio â hynny, ac rydym yn eu hadeiladu. Ymwelais ag un yn etholaeth fy nghyd-Aelod Huw Irancca-Davies yn ddiweddar iawn a oedd yn cydymffurfio â'r patrwm hwnnw.
Ond o ran y stoc dai bresennol, mae'n amlwg y gall hynny fod yn anos o lawer, ac mewn rhai achosion, mae'n amhosibl ei wneud. Ond lle bo hynny'n bosibl, dylai'r awdurdod lleol allu cynorthwyo drwy'r cynllun addasu a thrwy ofal a thrwsio. Os yw'n cael problem arbennig gydag etholwr penodol—os yw'n awyddus i ysgrifennu ataf, fe wnaf edrych i weld beth y gallaf ei wneud.
5. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi'r gwaith o adfywio canol trefi yng ngogledd ddwyrain Cymru? OAQ55176
5. Will the Minister make a statement on how the Welsh Government is supporting the regeneration of town centres in north-east Wales? OAQ55176
Transforming towns across Wales and making them fit for the twenty-first century is a priority for the Welsh Government. We've continued to support the regeneration of town centres across north-east Wales, not least with projects worth £60 million focused on Rhyl, Wrexham and Holywell.
Mae trawsnewid trefi ledled Cymru a sicrhau eu bod yn addas ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar hugain yn flaenoriaeth i Lywodraeth Cymru. Rydym wedi parhau i gefnogi'r gwaith o adfywio canol trefi ar draws gogledd-ddwyrain Cymru, yn enwedig gyda phrosiectau gwerth £60 miliwn sy'n canolbwyntio ar y Rhyl, Wrecsam a Threffynnon.
Thank you for your answer, Deputy Minister. As a fellow north-Walian, you'll know Buckley high street in my constituency very well. Unfortunately, over the years, it has seen businesses close, and it has lost all of its banks. Now, it does need real investment in the town centre to go alongside the hard work of the community in Buckley, and their hard work to support the high street. Personally, I'm determined to bring a community bank to the town, which I believe will be the starting point of regeneration. Minister, it's also key that we bring empty units back to use. So, will you commit today to join me on a visit to Buckley high street to discuss with various stakeholders how the Welsh Government can make this happen and start to regenerate towns like Buckley?
Diolch ichi am eich ateb, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Fel cyd-ogleddwr, fe fyddwch yn adnabod stryd fawr Bwcle yn fy etholaeth yn dda iawn. Yn anffodus, dros y blynyddoedd, mae wedi gweld busnesau'n cau, ac mae wedi colli pob un o'i banciau. Nawr, mae angen buddsoddiad go iawn yng nghanol y dref i gyd-fynd â gwaith caled y gymuned ym Mwcle, a'u gwaith caled i gefnogi'r stryd fawr. Yn bersonol, rwy'n benderfynol o sefydlu banc cymunedol yn y dref, a dyna fydd man cychwyn adfywio yn fy marn i. Weinidog, mae hefyd yn allweddol ein bod yn dod ag unedau gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd. Felly, a wnewch chi ymrwymo heddiw i ymuno â mi ar ymweliad â stryd fawr Bwcle i drafod gyda rhanddeiliaid amrywiol sut y gall Llywodraeth Cymru wneud i hyn ddigwydd a dechrau adfywio trefi fel Bwcle?
The Member for Alyn and Deeside is right, I do know Buckley high street well, not least because Buckley borders my own constituency, although, I have to say, it's a fair few years since my regular visits to the Tiv in Buckley.
You're doing great there about the way that Buckley has lost banks—the high street has changed, as many of our high streets across the country have changed, and the way we work, live and shop has changed. I know that you're continuing to do that engagement, both with Banc Cambria and the community bank, and also with my colleague the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales.
You talked about the blight of empty properties, and we're all familiar with these in terms of all of our town centres and high streets—properties that have been there for a number of years and we all talk about. You can't get in touch—it's difficult to get hold of the landlord or they're not in a position to do anything with it. That is why I'm really pleased we've bought in this £13.6 million enforcement fighting fund as part of the transforming towns agenda, and I'm really pleased that local authorities such as Flintshire are coming forward with identifying properties to not just use the fund, but use the expertise that will be on hand to help them tackle that moving forward.
When I announced the transforming towns agenda, I was very keen to get out and talk to communities and stakeholders about actually how we can best work together to regenerate and make them fit for the future. So, if you'd like to get in touch with my private office, I'd be more than happy to arrange an opportunity to come along.
Mae'r Aelod dros Alun a Glannau Dyfrdwy yn iawn, rwy'n adnabod stryd fawr Bwcle yn dda, yn enwedig gan fod Bwcle yn ffinio â fy etholaeth, er, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, mae blynyddoedd ers fy ymweliadau rheolaidd â'r Tiv ym Mwcle.
Rydych yn siarad yn dda am y ffordd y mae Bwcle wedi colli banciau—mae'r stryd fawr wedi newid, fel y mae llawer o'n strydoedd mawr ledled y wlad wedi newid, ac mae'r ffordd rydym yn gweithio, byw a siopa wedi newid. Gwn eich bod yn parhau i ymgysylltu, gyda Banc Cambria a'r banc cymunedol, a hefyd gyda fy nghyd-Aelod, Gweinidog yr Economi, Trafnidiaeth a Gogledd Cymru.
Rydych wedi sôn am felltith eiddo gwag, ac rydym i gyd yn gyfarwydd â'r rhain yng nghanol ein trefi a'n strydoedd mawr—eiddo sydd wedi bod yno ers nifer o flynyddoedd ac rydym i gyd yn siarad amdanynt. Ni allwch gysylltu—mae naill ai'n anodd cael gafael ar y landlord neu nid ydynt mewn sefyllfa i wneud unrhyw beth â'r eiddo. Dyna pam rwy'n falch iawn ein bod wedi sicrhau'r gronfa orfodi hon, sy'n werth £13.6 miliwn, fel rhan o'r agenda trawsnewid trefi, ac rwy'n falch iawn fod awdurdodau lleol fel Sir y Fflint yn nodi eiddo i wneud defnydd o'r gronfa ac i ddefnyddio'r arbenigedd a fydd wrth law i'w helpu i fynd i'r afael â hynny.
Pan gyhoeddais yr agenda trawsnewid trefi, roeddwn yn awyddus iawn i fynd i siarad â chymunedau a rhanddeiliaid am y ffordd orau o weithio gyda'n gilydd i adfywio a sicrhau eu bod yn addas ar gyfer y dyfodol. Felly, os hoffech gysylltu â fy swyddfa breifat, buaswn yn fwy na pharod i drefnu cyfle i ddod gyda chi.
6. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am adeiladu tai cyngor yng Nghymru? OAQ55181
6. Will the Minister make a statement on the building of council homes in Wales? OAQ55181
9. Faint o anheddau cyngor y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn disgwyl fydd yn cael eu hadeiladu ym mlwyddyn ariannol 2020/21? OAQ55147
9. How many council dwellings does the Welsh Government expect to be built in the financial year 2020/21? OAQ55147
Deputy Presiding Officer, I understand you've given permission for questions 6 and 9 to be grouped.
I'm pleased to say that all councils in Wales that have retained their social housing stock plan to build new council homes. Their ambition is to deliver around 1,790 new homes by the end of this term of Government, and we are working with them to deliver even more.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, deallaf eich bod wedi rhoi caniatâd i gwestiynau 6 a 9 gael eu grwpio.
Rwy'n falch o ddweud bod pob cyngor yng Nghymru sydd wedi cadw eu stoc tai cymdeithasol yn bwriadu adeiladu cartrefi cyngor newydd. Eu huchelgais yw darparu tua 1,790 o gartrefi newydd erbyn diwedd tymor y Llywodraeth hon, ac rydym yn gweithio gyda hwy i ddarparu mwy na hynny hyd yn oed.
Mae yna gwestiwn wedi codi, efallai, ynglŷn â sut mae nifer o gynghorau yng Nghymru yn mynd i allu manteisio ar gyfleoedd yn y maes yma, oherwydd maen nhw, wrth gwrs, wedi colli eu stoc tai cyngor ers iddyn nhw drosglwyddo'r rheini i landlordiaid cymdeithasol dros ddegawd yn ôl. Nawr bod pethau, wrth gwrs, wedi newid a bod pwyslais ar gynghorau i godi tai eu hunain unwaith eto, yna y cwestiwn yw: sut y mae cynghorau heb stoc yn gallu bod yn rhan o'r ymdrech yma? Felly, gaf i ofyn pa ffyrdd amgen y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn mynd i'w cynnig i gynghorau sydd heb stoc dai yn uniongyrchol o fewn eu perchnogaeth nhw eu hunain i fod yn rhan o greu mwy o dai cyhoeddus sydd yn, wrth gwrs, wirioneddol fforddadwy?
A question has arisen as to how many councils in Wales are going to be able to take advantage of opportunities in this area, because they've lost their council house stock since they transferred those to social landlords over a decade ago. Other things have changed, and there is an emphasis on councils building their own homes once again. The question is: how do councils that don't hold stock be part of that effort? So, can I ask what alternative methods the Welsh Government is going to provide to councils that don't have housing stock directly within their own ownership to be involved in creating more social housing that is truly affordable?
Yes, it's a very good point. We are, of course, supporting the 11 councils in Wales who have retained their stock of council homes, but we're also working very hard with the non-stockholding councils who did stock transfers. We do provide what's called 'dowry' to the large stock voluntary transfers—basically, they're registered social landlords, but they used to be the council housing. So, we are working very hard with them and the local council to make sure that, together, we can get an investment programme going. Of course, we put social housing plant into those and, as I said, we provide what's called 'dowry' to them as well. So, we are working very hard to make sure that people who live—. You ought not to be able to notice whether you live in a stockholding council or a non-stockholding council. What we build are social homes, and some of those will be run by our registered social landlords and some will be run by the council, and it ought not to matter to the tenant what difference that makes.
Again, in response to the affordable housing review, we will be looking at the way that we use that grant to lever some changes in for the tenant. We want to make sure that tenant satisfaction ratings are up high, that we have the right kind of tenant participation in decision making and so on. That will affect council housing as well as the registered social landlord sector. I've also said many times in this Chamber that I'm looking at a governance review for the tenant satisfaction part of being a council house runner, not the governance and finance part, because obviously that's controlled through the local government settlement.
Ie, mae'n bwynt da iawn. Rydym yn cefnogi'r 11 cyngor yng Nghymru sydd wedi cadw eu stoc o gartrefi cyngor wrth gwrs, ond rydym hefyd yn gweithio'n galed iawn gyda'r cynghorau nad ydynt yn dal stoc ond sydd wedi trosglwyddo stoc. Rydym yn darparu'r hyn a elwir yn 'daliadau gwaddoli' i'r trosglwyddiadau stoc gwirfoddol mawr—yn y bôn, landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig ydynt, ond y tai cyngor oedd y rhain yn arfer bod. Felly, rydym yn gweithio'n galed iawn gyda hwy a'r cyngor lleol i sicrhau y gallwn gael rhaglen fuddsoddi ar waith gyda'n gilydd. Wrth gwrs, rydym yn darparu peiriannau adeiladu tai cymdeithasol ar gyfer y rhaglen honno ac fel y dywedais, rydym yn darparu'r hyn a elwir yn 'daliadau gwaddoli' ar ei chyfer hefyd. Felly, rydym yn gweithio'n galed iawn i wneud yn siŵr fod pobl sy'n byw—. Ni ddylech allu sylwi a ydych yn byw mewn cyngor sy'n dal stoc neu gyngor nad yw'n dal stoc. Rydym yn adeiladu cartrefi cymdeithasol, a bydd rhai o'r rheini'n cael eu rhedeg gan ein landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig, a bydd rhai'n cael eu rhedeg gan y cyngor, ac ni ddylai fod o bwys i'r tenant pa wahaniaeth y mae hynny'n ei wneud.
Unwaith eto, mewn ymateb i'r adolygiad o dai fforddiadwy, byddwn yn edrych ar y ffordd rydym yn defnyddio'r grant hwnnw i ysgogi newidiadau i'r tenant. Rydym eisiau gwneud yn siŵr fod cyfraddau boddhad tenantiaid yn uchel, fod gennym y math cywir o gyfranogiad tenantiaid o ran gwneud penderfyniadau ac yn y blaen. Bydd hynny'n effeithio ar dai cyngor yn ogystal â'r sector landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig. Rwyf hefyd wedi dweud droeon yn y Siambr hon fy mod yn edrych ar adolygiad llywodraethu ar gyfer yr elfen boddhad tenantiaid o redeg tŷ cyngor, nid yr elfen lywodraethu a chyllid, oherwydd yn amlwg caiff hynny ei reoli drwy'r setliad llywodraeth leol.
I believe the only way that you're going to be able to deal with the housing shortage is to build council houses in the numbers built between 1945 and 1979, and that went across both Conservative and Labour Governments during that time, who were committed to building more and more council houses, which did deal with the problem caused after the second world war of huge numbers of people needing housing, and adequate housing. Slums were cleared.
Authorities like Swansea, which is doing a phenomenally good job, have kept their own stock and are building houses. Those who went through stock transfer—I think perhaps some of them must be regretting it now, but you get an opportunity to regret with time—are they able to start building again, council houses? If the money's available to build council houses, are they available? I would say that I would like to give the people who made the decision to transfer to a registered social landlord the opportunity to transfer back to the local authority. I think that that would solve a lot of problems. I think it was a huge mistake people transferring out. I campaigned against it in Swansea and I'm very pleased Swansea kept their council housing.
Credaf mai'r unig ffordd y gallwch ymdrin â'r prinder tai yw adeiladu tai cyngor yn y niferoedd a adeiladwyd rhwng 1945 a 1979, a digwyddodd hynny ar draws Llywodraethau Ceidwadol a Llafur yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw, a oedd wedi ymrwymo i adeiladu mwy a mwy o dai cyngor, a aeth i'r afael â'r broblem a achoswyd ar ôl yr ail ryfel byd lle'r oedd niferoedd enfawr o bobl angen tai, a thai digonol. Cafodd slymiau eu clirio.
Mae awdurdodau fel Abertawe, sy'n gwneud gwaith hynod o dda, wedi cadw eu stoc eu hunain ac yn adeiladu tai. Y rheini a aeth drwy'r broses o drosglwyddo stoc—credaf efallai fod rhai ohonynt yn edifar bellach, ond mae amser yn rhoi cyfle i chi edifarhau—a allant ddechrau adeiladu tai cyngor eto? Os yw'r arian ar gael i adeiladu tai cyngor, a ydynt ar gael? Hoffwn roi cyfle i'r bobl a wnaeth y penderfyniad i drosglwyddo i landlord cymdeithasol cofrestredig drosglwyddo'n ôl i'r awdurdod lleol. Credaf y byddai hynny'n datrys llawer o broblemau. Rwy'n credu bod y bobl a drosglwyddodd wedi gwneud camgymeriad enfawr. Ymgyrchais yn ei erbyn yn Abertawe ac rwy'n falch iawn fod Abertawe wedi cadw eu tai cyngor.
Well, I have to say I agree with the second bit. I also was at Swansea at the time, and Mike Hedges will certainly remember that I was on that side of the argument as well. However, the stock transfers were done in order to be able to secure the finance necessary to bring the houses up to the Welsh housing quality standard. That was then and life has very much changed now. So, I think the short answer to your question is that councils that have closed their housing revenue accounts could, if they wanted to, open the HRA account again and start up, but for small numbers of houses, that's quite an expensive route to it, and so most of them—in fact all of them, I'm pretty sure—are choosing not to do that. Gwynedd Council is building four new low-carbon homes to improve the quality of homelessness provision in the borough, but there are some complications, basically, with the way that the housing revenue account has to work as soon as you have council tenants once more, which we are exploring with them.
What we are expecting, though, as I just said in answer to Llyr, is that in the 11 areas of Wales where councils have transferred their housing stock to a large-scale voluntary transfer housing association, we expect them to work with that LSVT housing association and other registered social landlords in their area to build social housing. I keep making the point that it's not about council housing, it's about social housing. Most people don't care much who their landlord is as long as they get good service charges, good tenant relations, good repairs, good whatever. So, what we want to do is make sure that the sector, wherever you are in Wales, steps up to that plate and we have good tenant satisfaction and good services across the social house sector.
Wel, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud fy mod yn cytuno â'r ail ran. Roeddwn innau hefyd yn Abertawe ar y pryd, a bydd Mike Hedges yn sicr yn cofio fy mod i ar yr ochr honno i'r ddadl hefyd. Fodd bynnag, cafodd y trosglwyddiadau stoc eu gwneud er mwyn gallu cael y cyllid angenrheidiol i sicrhau bod y tai yn cyrraedd safon ansawdd tai Cymru. Dyna oedd y sefyllfa bryd hynny ac mae bywyd yn wahanol iawn yn awr. Felly, credaf mai'r ateb byr i'ch cwestiwn yw y gallai cynghorau sydd wedi cau eu cyfrifon refeniw tai agor y cyfrif refeniw tai eto os dymunant a dechrau arni, ond ar gyfer niferoedd bach o dai, mae honno'n ffordd eithaf drud o'i wneud, ac felly mae'r rhan fwyaf ohonynt—pob un ohonynt, rwy'n eithaf siŵr—yn dewis peidio â gwneud hynny. Mae Cyngor Gwynedd yn adeiladu pedwar cartref carbon isel newydd i wella ansawdd y ddarpariaeth ddigartrefedd yn y fwrdeistref, ond mae rhai cymhlethdodau, yn y bôn, gyda'r ffordd y mae'n rhaid i'r cyfrif refeniw tai weithio cyn gynted ag y bydd gennych denantiaid cyngor unwaith yn rhagor, ac rydym yn archwilio hynny gyda hwy.
Yr hyn rydym yn ei ddisgwyl, fodd bynnag, fel rwyf newydd ei ddweud wrth ateb Llyr, yw ein bod yn disgwyl i gynghorau yn yr 11 ardal yng Nghymru lle maent wedi trosglwyddo eu stoc dai i gymdeithas dai trosglwyddo gwirfoddol ar raddfa fawr (TGRF) weithio gyda'r gymdeithas dai TGRF honno a landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig eraill yn eu hardal i adeiladu tai cymdeithasol. Rwy'n dal i wneud y pwynt nad yw'n ymwneud â thai cyngor, mae'n ymwneud â thai cymdeithasol. Nid yw'r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn poeni llawer pwy yw eu landlord cyhyd â'u bod yn cael taliadau gwasanaeth teg, cysylltiadau tenantiaid da, atgyweiriadau da ac yn y blaen. Felly, yr hyn rydym eisiau ei wneud yw sicrhau bod y sector, lle bynnag rydych yng Nghymru, yn ysgwyddo ei gyfrifoldeb a bod gennym lefel uchel o foddhad tenantiaid a gwasanaethau da ar draws y sector tai cymdeithasol.
I'm very pleased, Minister, that in my constituency I have a number of well-established small and medium-sized construction companies very eager to undertake the building of council homes for the local authority, and the local authority is also keen that those companies also undertake the work. At the moment, the process does seem very over-complicated, and I wonder how the Welsh Government can work with local authorities to make the tendering process easier and simpler. Because I think, actually, we all want to see more indigenous local Welsh businesses actually undertake this kind of work in Wales. How can we achieve that and make the process much easier than it is at the moment?
Rwy'n falch iawn, Weinidog, fod gennyf nifer o gwmnïau adeiladu bach a chanolig eu maint wedi'u sefydlu'n dda yn fy etholaeth sy'n awyddus iawn i ymgymryd â'r gwaith o adeiladu cartrefi cyngor i'r awdurdod lleol, ac mae'r awdurdod lleol hefyd yn awyddus i'r cwmnïau hynny ymgymryd â'r gwaith. Ar hyn o bryd, mae'r broses yn ymddangos yn or-gymhleth, ac rwy'n meddwl tybed sut y gallai Llywodraeth Cymru weithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i wneud y broses dendro'n haws ac yn symlach. Oherwydd mae pawb ohonom eisiau gweld mwy o fusnesau lleol cynhenid yn gwneud y math hwn o waith yng Nghymru. Sut y gallwn gyflawni hynny a gwneud y broses yn llawer haws nag y mae ar hyn o bryd?
We are very happy as a Government to work with any authority that's struggling to resource tendering out work for itself on its own land, for example. So, if you have specific instances you want to tell me about, I'd be very happy to take them up. But, as I say, this morning I met with the Home Builders Federation, alongside my colleague Lee Waters, to discuss exactly that: how could we ease the process of builders both bringing forward their own schemes in Wales, but also acting as 'contractors' to the local authority or, indeed, the local registered social landlord that are bringing forward housing developments. We're very keen to work with the sector to ensure that a large number of SMEs are able to get their foot in that door, because that gives them some cashflow certainty when they're doing developments of their own elsewhere, because we have a number of things in place—for example, project bank accounts and so on—that are capable of easing the cashflow crisis that many small and medium firms have when they're applying for planning, for example.
And the other thing I'd just like to mention is schemes like our new self-build programme, where the local authority is expected to bring the land forward with planning on it, as long as you build one of the patterns that's available. And we are expecting that—. Although the title is 'self-build', we are expecting the people who come forward to buy these plots to employ local builders to actually build the houses; we think it's going to be a very rare instance in which a person actually physically builds it. So, the local authority is assisting with the tendering process for those as well, with a view to bringing in those little SMEs to make sure that they get a foot in that door as well. But, if you have specific issues, I'd be more than happy to discuss them with you.
Rydym yn hapus iawn fel Llywodraeth i weithio gydag unrhyw awdurdod sy'n stryffaglu i ddarparu adnoddau i'r broses o dendro gwaith i'w hun ar ei dir ei hun, er enghraifft. Felly, os oes gennych achosion penodol yr hoffech chi sôn wrthyf amdanynt, buaswn yn hapus iawn i fynd ar eu trywydd. Ond fel y dywedaf, y bore yma, cyfarfûm â'r Ffederasiwn Adeiladwyr Cartrefi, gyda fy nghyd-Aelod Lee Waters, i drafod hynny: sut y gallem hwyluso'r broses i adeiladwyr gyflwyno eu cynlluniau eu hunain yng Nghymru, ond hefyd i weithredu fel 'contractwyr' i'r awdurdod lleol, neu'r landlord cymdeithasol cofrestredig lleol sy'n cyflwyno datblygiadau tai. Rydym yn awyddus iawn i weithio gyda'r sector i sicrhau bod nifer fawr o fusnesau bach a chanolig yn gallu cael eu troed yn y drws, oherwydd mae hynny'n rhoi rhywfaint o sicrwydd llif arian iddynt pan fyddant yn gwneud datblygiadau eu hunain mewn mannau eraill, oherwydd mae gennym nifer o bethau ar waith—er enghraifft, cyfrifon banc prosiectau ac yn y blaen—sy'n gallu lleddfu'r argyfwng llif arian sy'n wynebu llawer o fusnesau bach a chanolig pan fyddant yn gwneud cais cynllunio, er enghraifft.
A'r peth arall yr hoffwn sôn amdano yw cynlluniau fel ein rhaglen hunanadeiladu newydd, lle mae disgwyl i'r awdurdod lleol gyflwyno'r tir gyda chynlluniau ar ei gyfer, cyn belled â'ch bod yn adeiladu un o'r patrymau sydd ar gael. Ac rydym yn disgwyl—. Er mai 'hunanadeiladu' yw'r teitl, rydym yn disgwyl i'r bobl sy'n prynu'r lleiniau hyn gyflogi adeiladwyr lleol i adeiladu'r tai mewn gwirionedd; ni chredwn y bydd unigolyn yn mynd ati i adeiladu tŷ â'u dwylo eu hunain heblaw mewn achosion prin iawn. Felly, mae'r awdurdod lleol yn cynorthwyo gyda'r broses dendro ar gyfer y rheini hefyd, gyda'r bwriad o sicrhau bod y busnesau bach a chanolig hynny'n cael troed yn y drws hefyd. Ond os oes gennych faterion penodol yn codi, rwy'n fwy na pharod i'w trafod gyda chi.
I just wanted to ask you, Minister, about, when we're talking about affordable housing in particular, whether council houses and social houses provided by social landlords are going to be affected by your plans for non-traditional construction methods, can I say? Obviously, their borrowing facility is going to be dependent on the valuation of the body of assets and, obviously, we had problems with properties that were built between the wars and in the early 1960s through concrete block construction. Can you tell us what conversations you've had with lenders about whether they're going to be concerned about this, as these are really good ideas and we don't want it to be stymied by, actually, an inability to borrow? Thank you.
Roeddwn eisiau gofyn i chi, Weinidog, pan fyddwn yn sôn am dai fforddiadwy yn benodol, a fydd eich cynlluniau ar gyfer dulliau adeiladu anhraddodiadol, os caf ddweud, yn effeithio ar dai cyngor a thai cymdeithasol a ddarperir gan landlordiaid cymdeithasol? Yn amlwg, bydd eu cyfleuster benthyca yn dibynnu ar brisio corff yr asedau ac yn amlwg, cawsom broblemau gydag eiddo a godwyd rhwng y rhyfeloedd ac ar ddechrau'r 1960au yn sgil adeiladu gyda blociau concrit. A allwch chi ddweud wrthym pa sgyrsiau a gawsoch gyda benthycwyr ynglŷn ag a fyddant yn pryderu ynghylch hyn, oherwydd mae'r rhain yn syniadau da iawn ac nid ydym eisiau iddynt gael eu rhwystro gan anallu i fenthyca? Diolch.
Suzy Davies raises a very good point, and we have been having those exact discussions. We're also having discussions with the various warranty and accreditation arrangements—so, the International Organization for Standardization and so on—because some of them are very old indeed and were thought up in the 1970s when lots of the new materials didn't exist. So, for example, it's often the case that they ask for reinforced concrete in various bits, which—there's no need to have that anymore. So, we have been working very hard to make sure that what we bring forward can get the right warranties, and, once it's got the right warranties, then the lenders are very happy to go ahead, but they do like to have the warranties and the ISOs in place. So, we have—. I assure you that very much part of the innovative housing programme has been testing the claims that the manufacturers make about the various types of house building, with a view to us assisting them to get the warranties in place necessary to get the houses properly financed.
Mae Suzy Davies yn codi pwynt da iawn, ac rydym wedi bod yn cael yr union drafodaethau hynny. Rydym hefyd yn cynnal trafodaethau gyda'r gwahanol drefniadau gwarantu ac achredu—felly, y Sefydliad Rhyngwladol ar gyfer Safoni (ISO) ac yn y blaen—am fod rhai ohonynt yn hen iawn yn wir ac am eu bod wedi cael eu creu yn y 1970au pan nad oedd llawer o'r deunyddiau newydd yn bodoli. Felly, er enghraifft, mae'n aml yn wir eu bod yn gofyn am goncrid wedi'i atgyfnerthu mewn rhannau amrywiol, sydd—nid oes angen hynny bellach. Felly, rydym wedi bod yn gweithio'n galed iawn i wneud yn siŵr y gall yr hyn a gyflwynir gennym gael y gwarantau cywir, ac y bydd y benthycwyr yn hapus iawn i fwrw ymlaen ar ôl cael y gwarantau cywir, ond maent yn hoffi sicrhau bod gwarantau a safonau'r ISO yn eu lle. Felly, rydym wedi—. Rwy'n eich sicrhau mai rhan fawr o'r rhaglen tai arloesol yw profi'r honiadau y mae'r gweithgynhyrchwyr yn eu gwneud am y ffyrdd amrywiol o adeiladu tai, gyda'r bwriad o'u cynorthwyo i wneud yn siŵr fod y gwarantau sy'n angenrheidiol yn eu lle i sicrhau cyllid priodol ar gyfer y tai.
7. Sut y mae polisïau hawliau tramwy Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi ymgyrch Y Cerddwyr 'Don't Lose Your Way''? OAQ55179
7. How does the Welsh Government's rights of way policies support the Ramblers' 'Don't Lose Your Way' campaign? OAQ55179
The Welsh Government is currently undertaking an access reform programme. This includes dealing with unwanted provisions of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, such as those relating to the 2026 cut-off date for historical routes highlighted by the Ramblers' 'Don't Lose Your Way' campaign.
Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wrthi'n cyflawni rhaglen diwygio mynediad. Mae'n cynnwys ymdrin â darpariaethau diangen yn Neddf Cefn Gwlad a Hawliau Tramwy 2000, fel y rheini sy'n ymwneud â'r dyddiad terfyn yn 2026 ar gyfer llwybrau hanesyddol a nodwyd gan ymgyrch Y Cerddwyr, 'Don't Lose Your Way'.
That's good to hear and, Deputy Presiding Officer, I should declare my interest as the vice-president of Ramblers Cymru—proudly as the vice-president of Ramblers Cymru. Has she had the opportunity as Minister to go out with the Ramblers to see the new app that underpins this campaign? I've used it myself on my local paths. You can swipe from left to right. Apparently, you can do that with other apps as well, which I'm not familiar with. [Laughter.] And it overlays historic maps it overlays historic maps with current maps so you can see which maps have gone missing, and then you can, literally, as you're standing there, detail the path that has gone missing, which is in front of you but isn't down on the registered rights of way, and you submit it there online. I've done it myself. It's so easy to use. And what we're looking for, as the Ramblers, is to get tens of thousands of people across the country to make sure that they register these rights of way before the cut-off date in 2026. Has she had the opportunity to get out with her Ramblers? Has she used the app and switched left to right?
Mae hynny'n dda i'w glywed, Ddirprwy Lywydd, a dylwn ddatgan buddiant fel is-lywydd Cerddwyr Cymru—fel is-lywydd balch Cerddwyr Cymru. A yw wedi cael cyfle fel Gweinidog i fynd allan gyda'r Cerddwyr i weld yr ap newydd sy'n sail i'r ymgyrch hon? Rwyf wedi'i ddefnyddio fy hun ar fy llwybrau lleol. Gallwch sweipio o'r chwith i'r dde. Mae'n debyg y gallwch wneud hynny hefyd gydag apiau eraill, nad wyf yn gyfarwydd â hwy. [Chwerthin.] Ac mae'n gosod mapiau cyfredol dros fapiau hanesyddol fel y gallwch weld pa fapiau sydd wedi mynd ar goll, ac yna gallwch, yn llythrennol, wrth i chi sefyll yno, fanylu ar y llwybr sydd wedi mynd ar goll, sydd o'ch blaen ond nad yw wedi'i nodi ar yr hawliau tramwy cofrestredig, a gallwch ei gyflwyno ar-lein. Rwyf wedi gwneud hynny fy hun. Mae mor hawdd i'w ddefnyddio. A'r hyn rydym yn edrych amdano, fel Y Cerddwyr, yw i ddegau o filoedd o bobl ar draws y wlad wneud yn siŵr eu bod yn cofrestru'r hawliau tramwy hyn cyn y dyddiad terfyn yn 2026. A yw'r Gweinidog wedi cael cyfle i fynd allan gyda'r Cerddwyr? A yw wedi defnyddio'r ap ac wedi'i sweipio o'r chwith i'r dde?
The Ramblers app, yes? [Laughter.] So, I was really pleased I met Ramblers Cymru nationally, as a Minister, recently in the last few weeks, and I also actually met my local Ramblers group just Friday just gone. Unfortunately, the inclement weather meant that we weren't out for a walk, but we did get to sit in a lovely corner café in Caerwys. So, actually, whilst we didn't have the app or the online version of the maps, we did actually have the traditional paper maps, and I've talked through some of the lost routes at a local level. I think the Member just did an incredibly good job of promoting their campaign, and perhaps encouraging other Members to take a look and see in their own areas how they can get involved as well. As I said, I really do value the work of all the volunteers and Ramblers Cymru and the work that they do do in this way, and, as I said, the Welsh Government is working to see how we can review the 2026 cut-off date.
Ap Y Cerddwyr, ie? [Chwerthin.] Roeddwn yn falch iawn o gyfarfod â Cerddwyr Cymru yn genedlaethol, fel Gweinidog, yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf, a chyfarfûm â fy ngrŵp Cerddwyr lleol ddydd Gwener diwethaf mewn gwirionedd. Yn anffodus, roedd y tywydd garw'n golygu nad oeddem allan am dro, ond cawsom eistedd mewn caffi hyfryd ar gornel stryd yng Nghaerwys. Felly, er nad oedd gennym yr ap na'r fersiwn ar-lein o'r mapiau, roedd gennym y mapiau papur traddodiadol, a siaradais drwy rai o'r llwybrau coll ar lefel leol. Rwy'n credu bod yr Aelod newydd wneud gwaith rhyfeddol o dda o hyrwyddo eu hymgyrch, ac annog Aelodau eraill efallai i edrych i weld sut y gallant gymryd rhan yn eu hardaloedd eu hunain. Fel y dywedais, rwy'n gwerthfawrogi gwaith yr holl wirfoddolwyr a Cerddwyr Cymru yn fawr a'r gwaith y maent yn ei wneud yn y ffordd hon, ac fel y dywedais, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio i weld sut y gallwn adolygu dyddiad terfyn 2026.
Thank you very much, Minister.
Diolch yn fawr, Weinidog.
Item 3 on the agenda is topical questions. The first topical question this afternoon is to be answered by the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism. Delyth Jewell.
Eitem 3 ar yr agenda yw'r cwestiynau amserol. Mae'r cwestiwn amserol cyntaf y prynhawn yma i'w ateb gan y Dirprwy Weinidog Diwylliant, Chwaraeon a Thwristiaeth. Delyth Jewell.
1. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u cael ynglŷn â'r adroddiadau y gallai gemau rygbi'r chwe gwlad fod ar gael ar sail talu-wrth-wylio yn unig yn y dyfodol? 401
1. What discussions has the Minister had in relation to the reports that Six Nations Rugby games may only be available on a pay-per-view basis in the future? 401
Diolch yn fawr am y cwestiwn. Dyw darlledu ddim wedi ei ddatganoli. Mae'r mater hwn, felly, yn benodol ar hyn o bryd i'w ystyried gan bwyllgor y chwe gwlad a'r darlledwyr. Dwi'n credu ei bod hi'n briodol i mi ddweud bod y broses o dendro am yr hawliau darlledu yn parhau yn agored ar hyn o bryd, ac felly, wrth ateb heddiw ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru, dwi'n gwneud hynny'n ymwybodol bod yna faterion sydd yn gyfrifoldeb y cyrff llywodraethol cenedlaethol a ariennir gennym ni, a hefyd bod yna faterion yma sy'n fasnachol a chyfrinachol.
Thank you very much for the question. Broadcasting is non-devolved. This issue, therefore, is specifically for the consideration of the six nations committee and the broadcasters. I think it's important for me to say that the tendering process for broadcasting rights continues to be open at the moment, and, in responding today on behalf of the Welsh Government, I do so in the knowledge that there are issues that are the responsibility of the national governing bodies that are funded by us, and that there are issues here that are commercial in confidence.
Ocê. Diolch am eich ateb am hynny, Dirprwy Weinidog. Beth fuaswn i yn dweud—. So, rygbi—. Mae rygbi mor bwysig i'r bobl yng Nghymru, ac rwy'n siŵr bydden ni’n cytuno ar hynny.
Okay. Thank you for your response, Deputy Minister. What I would say is that—. Rugby is so very important to the people of Wales, and I'm sure we would agree on that.
In fact, the Six Nations Rugby games are watched by 82 per cent of the population of Wales. That's an absolutely incredible figure, and I think that, in some ways, a case can certainly be made for it being a unique case because of that.
But the debate about whether the games should move to a pay-to-view platform isn't just about rugby. It's about the fact that some things shouldn't be decided by who can pay the most. Now, I take the points that the Deputy Minister has made about the fact that this tendering process is very much still going on, that there will be matters here that will be confidential, but I do think that, because of the unique place that rugby plays in the hearts of lots of people in Wales, it is still important that we have a discussion about this in the Senedd.
Since the RFU or England Rugby sold the rights to their games to Sky a few years ago, millions of English rugby fans have been unable to watch their own team play. I don't think it's in anyone's interest for the same thing to happen to Welsh rugby.
Yn wir, mae gemau Rygbi'r Chwe Gwlad yn cael eu gwylio gan 82 y cant o boblogaeth Cymru. Mae hwnnw'n ffigur hollol anghredadwy, a chredaf, mewn rhai ffyrdd, y gellir dadlau'n sicr ei fod yn achos unigryw oherwydd hynny.
Ond mae'r ddadl ynglŷn ag a ddylai'r gemau symud i blatfform talu-wrth-wylio yn ymwneud â mwy na rygbi'n unig. Mae'n ymwneud â'r ffaith na ddylai rhai pethau gael eu penderfynu gan bwy sy'n gallu talu fwyaf o arian. Nawr, rwy'n derbyn y pwyntiau a wnaeth y Dirprwy Weinidog mewn perthynas â'r ffaith bod y broses dendro hon yn dal i fynd rhagddi, y bydd materion yma a fydd yn gyfrinachol, ond oherwydd y lle unigryw sydd i rygbi yng nghalonnau llawer o bobl yng Nghymru, mae'n dal yn bwysig inni gael trafodaeth am hyn yn y Senedd.
Ers i'r RFU neu England Rugby werthu'r hawliau i'w gemau i Sky ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl, mae miliynau o gefnogwyr rygbi Lloegr wedi methu gwylio eu tîm eu hunain yn chwarae. Nid wyf yn credu y byddai o fudd i neb pe bai'r un peth yn digwydd i rygbi Cymru.
Nawr, dŷch chi wedi sôn am rai o'r problemau pam dŷch chi methu ateb rhai pwyntiau yn barod, Dirprwy Weinidog, ond, am yr iaith Gymraeg, fy mhryder i a nifer fawr iawn o bobl yw does dim sicrwydd y bydd sylwebaeth yn y Gymraeg yn parhau. Felly, gaf i ofyn pa drafodaethau byddwch chi’n edrych i'w chael gyda'r Llywodraeth yn San Steffan ynglŷn â dyfodol sylwebaeth yn y Gymraeg—os bydd dal gan S4C a Radio Cymru yr hawl i gario ymlaen i sylwebu yn y Gymraeg? Os na fydd, y pryder yw bydd nifer fawr iawn o bobl Cymru’n rili colli mas a chael—. They’ll be disenfranchised—sut bynnag mae dweud hwnna yn y Gymraeg.
You have mentioned some of the problems that explain why you can't answer on some of these issues, but, in terms of the Welsh language, my concern, and the concern of a number of other people as well, is that there is no certainty that commentary in Welsh will continue. So, may I ask you what discussions will you be looking to have with the Government in Westminster regarding the future of Welsh-language commentary—if S4C and Radio Cymru will still have the rights to carry on with it? And, if not, the concern is that a very large number of people in Wales will really lose out, and be disenfranchised.
If English-language coverage moves to Sky, then, put simply, the people will be priced out of their own traditions, and, I think it's fair to say, a part of their own culture. Of course, rugby is by far not the only national sport of Wales, but it does provide enjoyment to thousands of fans and inspires countless young people to pursue their own ambitions in the game, which is essential for the health of the game at a grass-roots level. So, Deputy Minister, you'll be aware that Plaid Cymru has written to the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, arguing the six nations should be given the same special status in the Broadcasting Act 1976 as the FA Cup final and the Olympic Games—that is, they should be guaranteed to be free to watch for everyone. And I note that a number of the Labour backbenchers have sent a letter in a similar vein to the chairman of the Welsh Rugby Union. Is this an argument that you agree with, and will you be writing to the UK Government to make that case?
And finally, Deputy Minister, do you agree with me—although I think from your previous answer that I can probably anticipate what you will say—that, in the longer term, the way to ensure that decisions affecting Welsh sport and culture benefit Wales and the people of Wales, the only way to ensure that, is to pursue devolving broadcasting to Wales so that Westminster can't sell off parts of our own culture?
Os yw'r darllediadau Saesneg eu hiaith yn symud i Sky, yna, yn syml, bydd y bobl yn cael eu prisio allan o'u traddodiadau eu hunain, ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn deg dweud, o ran o'u diwylliant eu hunain. Wrth gwrs, nid rygbi yw'r unig gamp genedlaethol yng Nghymru o bell ffordd, ond mae'n rhoi mwynhad i filoedd o gefnogwyr ac yn ysbrydoli niferoedd dirifedi o bobl ifanc i ddilyn eu huchelgais eu hunain yn y gêm, sy'n hanfodol ar gyfer iechyd y gêm ar lawr gwlad. Felly, Ddirprwy Weinidog, fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol fod Plaid Cymru wedi ysgrifennu at yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Ddiwylliant, Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon, gan ddadlau y dylid rhoi'r un statws arbennig i'r chwe gwlad yn Neddf Darlledu 1976 â rownd derfynol Cwpan yr FA a'r Gemau Olympaidd—hynny yw, dylid gwarantu y byddant ar gael i'w gwylio yn rhad ac am ddim i bawb. A sylwaf fod nifer o Aelodau meinciau cefn Llafur wedi anfon llythyr i'r un perwyl at gadeirydd Undeb Rygbi Cymru. A yw hon yn ddadl rydych yn cytuno â hi, ac a fyddwch yn ysgrifennu at Lywodraeth y DU i ddadlau'r achos hwnnw?
Ac yn olaf, Ddirprwy Weinidog, a ydych yn cytuno â mi—er fy mod yn credu y gallaf ragweld yr hyn rydych am ei ddweud o'ch ateb blaenorol—yn y tymor hwy, mai'r ffordd o sicrhau bod penderfyniadau sy'n effeithio ar chwaraeon a diwylliant Cymru o fudd i Gymru a'r Cymry, mai'r unig ffordd o sicrhau hynny, yw mynd ar drywydd datganoli darlledu i Gymru fel na all San Steffan roi rhannau o'n diwylliant ein hunain ar werth?
Wel, mae yna tua 10 o gwestiynau yn fanna, dwi'n meddwl, ond mi geisiaf i ateb rhai ohonyn nhw. Dwi ddim wedi ateb y cwestiwn cyntaf yn gywir, dwi yn sylweddoli. Dydw i ddim wedi cael trafodaethau uniongyrchol gyda'r darlledwyr na gyda'r undebau rygbi ynglŷn â’r mater yma. Dyna oedd yr ateb dylwn i fod wedi ei roi.
Ac rydw i'n derbyn mai'r sefyllfa rydym ni ynddi hi ydy bod gyda ni gyfundrefn yma o restru. Ac, yn wir, os awn ni nôl dros y datblygiad o restru, yn ôl cyn 2009, hyd yn oed, fe adroddodd y pwyllgor ymgynghorol dan gadeiryddiaeth fy nghyfaill David Davies yn argymell, ymhlith pethau eraill, y dylid adolygu'r rhestr yn fwy rheolaidd nag sydd wedi digwydd hyd yn hyn. Yr ateb sydd wedi cael ei roi, gan gynnwys ateb diweddar yn San Steffan, ydy nad oes bwriad gan Lywodraeth bresennol y Deyrnas Unedig i adolygu'r rhestr. Ond, wedi astudio'r mater yma, fy marn i yw nad yw'r ffordd o restru digwyddiadau yn y dull yma yn briodol yn y dyddiau o gyfathrebu digidol, ac mae hynna'n cynnwys rŵan yr holl agweddau—nid jest darlledu ond yr holl blatfformau lle mae modd i bobl ddilyn chwaraeon.
Ond a gaf i ddweud un peth? Dwi ddim yn ystyried mai fy rôl i fel un o Weinidogion yn Llywodraeth Cymru, Dirprwy Weinidog yn gyfrifol am y maes yma, ydy mynd i ofyn i San Steffan a fyddan nhw mor garedig â gwrando arnom ni. Dwi yn meddwl—[Torri ar draws.] Dwi'n meddwl ei bod hi'n hen bryd inni ei gwneud hi'n glir bod disgwyl i farn Llywodraeth Cymru gael ei ystyried yn freiniol mewn penderfyniadau sy'n effeithio arnom ni. Ac un o’r gwendidau efo'r trafodaethau yma ydy bod y disgrifiad sydd yn digwydd yn y ddeddfwriaeth wreiddiol yn sôn am faterion o bwys cenedlaethol, a dyma ni nôl yn fan hyn eto. Mae yna Deyrnas Unedig bedair cenedl, ac felly, mae'r hyn sydd yn briodol i fod yn sail i ddiwylliant y genedl hon yn sicr yr un mor bwysig ag unrhyw un o'r pedair gwlad arall.
Well, there were around 10 questions there, I think, but I will seek to answer some of them. I haven't responded correctly to the first question, I realise. I haven't had direct discussions with the broadcasters or with the rugby union on this issue. That was the response that I should have given initially.
I accept that the situation that we are in is that we have a system here of listing events. And, if we go back over the development of this system, back to the period prior to 2009, the consultative committee chaired by my colleague David Davies recommended, amongst other things, that the list should be reviewed more regularly than has been the case to date. The response that's been given, including a recent response given in Westminster, is that there is no intention by the current UK Government to review that list of events. But, having studied this issue, my view is that the way that these events are listed in this way is not appropriate in the days of digital communications, and that includes all aspects—not just broadcasting, but all platforms where people can follow sport.
But may I say one thing? I don't see it as my role as a Minister within the Welsh Government responsible for this area to go and ask Westminster would they be so kind as to listen to us. I believe—[Interruption.] I believe that it is about time for us to make it clear that the views of the Welsh Government should be considered centrally in decisions that have an impact upon us, and one of the weaknesses with this debate is that the description given in the original legislation talks about issues of national importance, and here we are back to this issue. There are four nations within the United Kingdom, and what is appropriate as the basis for the culture of this nation is certainly as important as any of the four nations of the union.
As someone who believes that rugby, international rugby, should be on a free-to-view basis and who doesn't own a satellite tv, and never has owned a satellite dish, I do regret the position that the home unions find themselves in. But I accept that it is a professional game now, and, for those proponents who want to keep it on free to view, there does have to be an argument put where the revenues will be found to make sure that the Welsh grass-roots game can remain competitive and keep players here in Wales. And that's the invidious situation that the WRU and other unions find themselves in.
I asked you a question about the support of the union some months ago on a topical basis, Minister, and you indicated that work was under way between yourself and the unions to try and identify funding streams that might come in and alleviate some of the funding pressures at a regional level. Are you in a position today to give some of that information of the meetings that you've had to try and identify streams where Welsh Government might be helpful in making revenues available to the union that will take the pressure off pay-per-view tv? Because, ultimately, the union has to make its books balance and make sure that players' wages and stadium infrastructure is improved.
Fel rhywun sy'n credu y dylai rygbi, rygbi rhyngwladol, fod ar gael i'w wylio am ddim, ac fel rhywun nad yw'n berchen ar deledu lloeren, ac nad yw erioed wedi bod yn berchen ar ddysgl lloeren, rwy'n gresynu at y sefyllfa y mae'r undebau cartref ynddi. Ond rwy'n derbyn ei bod yn gêm broffesiynol yn awr, ac i'r rheini sydd eisiau iddi barhau i fod ar gael i'w gwylio am ddim, mae'n rhaid bod yna ddadl i'w chael ynglŷn ag o ble y daw'r refeniw i sicrhau y gall y gêm ar lawr gwlad yng Nghymru aros yn gystadleuol a sicrhau y gellir cadw chwaraewyr yma yng Nghymru. A dyna'r sefyllfa annymunol y mae Undeb Rygbi Cymru a'r undebau eraill ynddi ar hyn o bryd.
Gofynnais gwestiwn i chi am gefnogaeth yr undeb rai misoedd yn ôl mewn cwestiwn amserol, Weinidog, ac fe ddywedoch chi fod gwaith yn mynd rhagddo rhyngoch chi a'r undebau i geisio nodi ffrydiau ariannu a allai liniaru rhywfaint o'r pwysau ariannol ar lefel ranbarthol. A ydych mewn sefyllfa heddiw i roi peth o'r wybodaeth honno am y cyfarfodydd rydych wedi'u cael er mwyn ceisio nodi ffrydiau lle gallai Llywodraeth Cymru fod yn ddefnyddiol i sicrhau bod refeniw ar gael i'r undeb a fyddai'n tynnu'r pwysau oddi ar raglenni talu-wrth-wylio? Oherwydd, yn y pen draw, mae'n rhaid i'r undeb fantoli ei lyfrau a sicrhau eu bod yn codi cyflogau chwaraewyr ac yn gwella seilwaith stadia.
I'm very grateful to you for setting out the dilemma that this poses for the rugby governing bodies and, of course, to us as a Government. In responding to you earlier on this matter, I think I must have pointed out that our funding finds its way to governing bodies through the offices of the sports council, and on the advice of the sports council I would be reluctant to look for a way of supporting any of the 45, maybe, governing bodies of different sports that we have in a way that did not relate to the advice that we get from the sports council.
But, in response to your question, I can say that I'm waiting to see the results of the present process. I think it is essential for us, if we can find agreement in this Assembly on a way forward, to make our views clearly known. The suggestion was made earlier that this might be a very useful thing for us to have a debate on, and if that were to happen—I can't speak for the Trefnydd or for Government business managers—I as a Minister would welcome a debate on this matter and for this Assembly to come to a resolution on this issue, which would then be the considered judgment of this Assembly.
Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i chi am egluro'r cyfyng-gyngor y mae hyn yn ei achosi i'r cyrff llywodraethu rygbi ac wrth gwrs, i ni fel Llywodraeth. Wrth ymateb i chi'n gynharach ar y mater hwn, credaf fy mod wedi nodi bod ein cyllid yn mynd i gyrff llywodraethu drwy swyddfeydd y cyngor chwaraeon, ac ar gyngor y cyngor chwaraeon, buaswn yn gyndyn o edrych am ffordd o gefnogi unrhyw un o'r 45, efallai, o gyrff llywodraethu sydd gennym ar gyfer gwahanol gampau mewn ffordd nad yw'n perthyn i'r cyngor a gawn gan y cyngor chwaraeon.
Ond mewn ymateb i'ch cwestiwn, gallaf ddweud fy mod yn aros i weld canlyniadau'r broses bresennol. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn hanfodol i ni wneud ein barn yn hysbys os gallwn ddod i gytundeb ar ffordd ymlaen yn y Cynulliad hwn. Gwnaethpwyd awgrym yn gynharach y gallai hwn fod yn fater defnyddiol iawn inni gael dadl arno, a phe bai hynny'n digwydd—ni allaf siarad ar ran y Trefnydd na rheolwyr busnes y Llywodraeth—buaswn i fel Gweinidog yn croesawu dadl ar y mater ac yn falch o weld y Cynulliad yn dod i benderfyniad yn ei gylch, ac mai dyna fyddai barn ystyriol y Cynulliad hwn.
My days as a schoolboy hooker for Gowerton School first 15 are long behind me. In fact, my last outing was on the wing for the redoubtable Assembly rugby team, which does so much for charity and for raising awareness of important issues within Wales and elsewhere. But, could I say to the Deputy Minister, if the six nations disappears behind a pay wall, whether it's Amazon, Sky or anybody else, it may, as Andrew R.T. Davies has rightly said, fill a gap in the coffers commercially for some of the six-nation unions, but it will be an unmitigated disaster in terms of participation, including grass-roots participation? Because we've seen what's happened to other sports, like cricket, that have disappeared behind pay walls.
So, I will propose to the Deputy Minister a suggested way forward that he could help with, because it is different here in Wales. The point that he made about Wales as a nation being central to decisions on which sports should be protected must now be raised with the UK Government, because this will come back for future bidding rounds. In that case, we need to make the case that rugby has a different pedigree and tradition in Wales. It was not born out of public schools, it was born out of mining communities, all the way back to its inception in Wales. In the 1970s, the teams that played had lawyers and doctors alongside colliers who were working down the pits as well, or in the steelworks. It is a working-class tradition in Wales, and that's why we are desperate to see this decision not take place and that it disappears behind a pay wall.
So, could I ask him: could he make those representations, picking up the lead that he made to the UK Government, that they should now change the way that these decisions are made and that they are not made by UK Ministers alone? When they describe a nation, they should look to the nations of Scotland and Northern Ireland, and Wales as well, about what is important to us.
Could you also make representations here and now to ensure that ITV and BBC can indeed make a joint bid? Because in this current round, unless the UK Government are going to change their mind and make this a gold standard sport that is protected, then the only hope we have, in fact, of filling the coffers and actually keeping it away from behind a pay wall is to have a good joint bid from ITV and BBC.
I was pleased to submit a letter to the Welsh Rugby Union—a difficult position that they're in—from all Labour backbenchers adding to what has been mentioned today, stressing the importance of this. But I think the Deputy Minister might be able to help if he can take those two issues up and put them very strongly. We need a joint bid to go forward to keep it free to view for all the people of Wales. I would say, in closing: this will be a disaster for international rugby, as well as for Wales, if it disappears.
Mae fy nyddiau fel bachwr i dîm cyntaf Ysgol Tregŵyr yn bell y tu ôl i mi. A dweud y gwir, yn fy ngêm ddiwethaf roeddwn yn asgellwr i dîm rygbi'r Cynulliad, sy'n gwneud cymaint dros elusennau a chodi ymwybyddiaeth o faterion pwysig yng Nghymru ac mewn mannau eraill. Ond a gaf fi ddweud wrth y Dirprwy Weinidog, pe bai'r chwe gwlad yn diflannu y tu ôl i wal dalu, boed yn Amazon, Sky neu'n unrhyw un arall, efallai y bydd, fel y dywedodd Andrew R.T. Davies yn gywir, yn llenwi bwlch yn y coffrau yn fasnachol i rai o undebau'r chwe gwlad, ond bydd yn drychineb llwyr o ran y rhai sy'n cyfranogi, gan gynnwys cyfranogiad ar lawr gwlad? Oherwydd gwelsom beth a ddigwyddodd i gampau eraill, fel criced, sydd wedi diflannu y tu ôl i waliau talu.
Felly, rwyf am awgrymu ffordd ymlaen i'r Dirprwy Weinidog y gallai helpu gyda hi, oherwydd mae'n wahanol yma yng Nghymru. Mae'n rhaid i'r pwynt a wnaeth, fod Cymru fel cenedl yn ganolog i benderfyniadau ynglŷn â pha chwaraeon y dylid eu gwarchod, gael ei godi yn awr gyda Llywodraeth y DU, oherwydd bydd y mater yn dychwelyd ar gyfer cylchoedd ceisiadau yn y dyfodol. Oherwydd hynny, mae angen inni ddadlau bod gan rygbi dras a thraddodiad gwahanol yng Nghymru. Nid datblygu o ysgolion preifat a wnaeth, ond o gymunedau glofaol, yr holl ffordd yn ôl i'w ddechreuad yng Nghymru. Yn y 1970au, roedd y timau a chwaraeai yn cynnwys cyfreithwyr a meddygon ochr yn ochr â glowyr a oedd yn gweithio yn y pyllau glo yn ogystal, neu yn y gwaith dur. Mae'n draddodiad dosbarth gweithiol yng Nghymru, a dyna pam ein bod yn awyddus iawn i sicrhau na fydd y penderfyniad hwn yn digwydd ac na fydd yn diflannu y tu ôl i wal dalu.
Felly, a gaf fi ofyn iddo: a allai wneud y sylwadau hynny, gan ddilyn y sylwadau arweiniol a wnaeth i Lywodraeth y DU, y dylent yn awr newid y ffordd y mae'r penderfyniadau hyn yn cael eu gwneud ac nad ydynt yn cael eu gwneud gan Weinidogion y DU yn unig? Pan fyddant yn disgrifio cenedl, dylent edrych ar wledydd yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon, a Chymru hefyd, i weld beth sy'n bwysig i ni.
A allech chi hefyd gyflwyno sylwadau yma nawr i sicrhau y gall ITV a BBC wneud cais ar y cyd? Oherwydd yn y cylch presennol, oni bai bod Llywodraeth y DU yn newid ei meddwl ac yn gwneud hon yn gamp safon aur a ddiogelir, yr unig obaith sydd gennym mewn gwirionedd o lenwi'r coffrau a'i rwystro rhag diflannu y tu ôl i wal dalu yw sicrhau cais da ar y cyd gan ITV a BBC.
Roeddwn yn falch o gyflwyno llythyr i Undeb Rygbi Cymru—sydd mewn sefyllfa anodd—gan holl Aelodau Llafur y meinciau cefn yn ychwanegu at yr hyn a grybwyllwyd heddiw, ac yn pwysleisio pwysigrwydd hyn. Ond rwy'n credu y gallai'r Dirprwy Weinidog helpu os gall gyflwyno dadl gref ar y ddau fater. Rydym angen gweld cais ar y cyd yn cael ei gyflwyno i sicrhau y gall holl bobl Cymru ei wylio'n rhad ac am ddim. Rwyf am ddweud, i gloi: bydd yn drychineb i rygbi rhyngwladol, yn ogystal ag i Gymru, os yw'n diflannu.
Well, in response to that very forthright statement, I can give undertakings that I will carry out what has been requested, because I am, after all, not only a member of the Government, but I'm a servant of this National Assembly, and it's very clear, in this exchange, what the views of Members are. I will be delighted to draw them to the attention—. Obviously, it's been made in this particular public space, and it will be known to everyone, what's been said. But, I give you the undertaking that this matter will be conveyed. In fact, I'm able to say that I might be able to convey it personally, because I shall be in London on other business in the next few days.
Wel, mewn ymateb i'r datganiad hynod ddi-flewyn-ar-dafod hwnnw, gallaf addo y byddaf yn gwneud yr hyn y gofynnwyd amdano, oherwydd, wedi'r cyfan, nid yn unig rwy'n aelod o'r Llywodraeth, rwy'n was i'r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hwn, ac mae'n glir iawn, yn y drafodaeth hon, beth yw barn yr Aelodau. Byddaf yn falch iawn o dynnu sylw—. Yn amlwg, mae wedi cael ei wneud yn y man cyhoeddus arbennig hwn, a bydd pawb yn gwybod beth sydd wedi cael ei ddweud. Ond rwy'n addo cyfleu'r mater hwn. Yn wir, efallai y gallaf ei gyfleu'n bersonol, gan y byddaf yn Llundain ar fusnes arall yn y dyddiau nesaf.
Thank you very much, Deputy Minister. The next topical question this afternoon is to be answered the Counsel General and Brexit Minister. Huw Irranca-Davies.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Mae'r cwestiwn amserol nesaf y prynhawn yma i'w ateb gan y Cwnsler Cyffredinol a'r Gweinidog Brexit. Huw Irranca-Davies.
2. I ba raddau yr ymgynghorwyd â Llywodraeth Cymru ynghylch cynnwys mandad y DU ar gyfer y trafodaethau gyda'r UE? 402
2. To what extent was the Welsh Government consulted over the content of the UK’s mandate for the negotiations with the EU? 402
Over the last three and a half years, the Welsh Government has taken every opportunity to set out Welsh priorities for the UK's future relationship with the EU to the UK Government. We had sight of a draft text a few days before publication, and took part in a telephone conference a few hours before the UK Cabinet was expected to discuss it. The final text did not reflect any of the substantive points we made. This was despite the terms of reference of the Joint Ministerial Committee (European Negotiations), which commits the UK Government to seek to agree negotiating positions with the devolved Governments. The approach that the mandate sets out is one that puts the ideological pursuit of an absolute sovereignty—surely a fantasy in the world of today—above people's jobs and livelihoods. We've been clear that we cannot support such an approach, and that the UK Government has passed up an opportunity to speak on behalf of all the four Governments of the UK in the negotiations, which have started this week.
Yn ystod y tair blynedd a hanner diwethaf, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi manteisio ar bob cyfle i nodi blaenoriaethau Cymru ar gyfer y berthynas rhwng y DU a'r UE yn y dyfodol i Lywodraeth y DU. Cawsom weld testun drafft ychydig ddyddiau cyn ei gyhoeddi, a chymerwyd rhan mewn cynhadledd ffôn ychydig oriau cyn y disgwylid i Gabinet y DU ei drafod. Nid oedd y testun terfynol yn adlewyrchu unrhyw rai o'r pwyntiau o sylwedd a wnaethom. Roedd hyn er gwaethaf cylch gorchwyl Cyd-bwyllgor y Gweinidogion (Negodiadau Ewropeaidd), sy'n rhwymo Llywodraeth y DU i geisio cytuno ar safbwyntiau negodi gyda'r Llywodraethau datganoledig. Mae'r dull gweithredu y mae'r mandad yn ei amlinellu yn un sy'n gosod trywydd ideolegol ynghylch sofraniaeth lwyr—sy'n sicr yn ffantasi yn y byd sydd ohoni—uwchben swyddi a bywoliaeth pobl. Rydym wedi bod yn glir na allwn gefnogi dull o'r fath, a bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi gwrthod cyfle i siarad ar ran pob un o bedair Llywodraeth y DU yn y negodiadau, sydd wedi dechrau yr wythnos hon.
Minister, as we leave the European Union, the constructive engagement of the UK Government with the devolved Governments becomes even more critical. It is incumbent upon the UK Government to demonstrate at every opportunity that there is real depth and substance behind the rhetoric about respect for the devolved Governments. Equally, it is incumbent upon devolved Governments to demonstrate that they are willing to engage seriously and constructively with the UK Government. So, Minister, at the end of January, the First Minister said, after a meeting of the devolved Governments with UK Minister Michael Gove, that there had been recognition shown that crafting a future relationship with the EU 'needs to be done by agreement across the governments of the UK as opposed to them going solo'.
Now, that sounded like a serious and constructive engagement by the Welsh Government in response to encouraging words in a meeting with the UK Government. Yet, only a month later, the First Minister publicly warned, after publication of the UK-EU negotiation mandate, that Wales's economy and jobs would be damaged by a 'basic, bare bones relationship' with the EU that 'lacks ambition and lets down Wales', that the 'UK's trade stance will cost Welsh jobs', and that if the negotiations fail we also risk facing tariffs that would be 'crippling for our farmers and food sector'. He further warned that the UK Government's political ambition to get any deal done, or none at all, is 'clearly more important to them than getting a deal that is in the interests of all the nations of the UK.'
Minister, Michael Gove last week told the House of Commons that the devolved Governments helped shape the UK Government's approach to the UK mandate. Minister, was Michael Gove telling the unvarnished simple truth to the UK Parliament, or did he misspeak?
Weinidog, wrth inni adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, mae ymgysylltiad adeiladol Llywodraeth y DU â'r Llywodraethau datganoledig yn dod yn bwysicach fyth. Mae'n ddyletswydd ar Lywodraeth y DU i fanteisio ar bob cyfle i ddangos bod gwir ddyfnder a sylwedd y tu ôl i'r rhethreg am barch tuag at y Llywodraethau datganoledig. Yn yr un modd, mae'n ddyletswydd ar Lywodraethau datganoledig i ddangos eu bod yn barod i ymgysylltu o ddifrif ac yn adeiladol â Llywodraeth y DU. Felly, Weinidog, ddiwedd mis Ionawr, dywedodd Prif Weinidog Cymru, ar ôl cyfarfod rhwng y Llywodraethau datganoledig a Gweinidog y DU, Michael Gove, eu bod yn cydnabod bod angen i'r gwaith o lunio perthynas â'r UE yn y dyfodol gael ei wneud drwy gytundeb ar draws llywodraethau'r DU yn hytrach na'u bod yn bwrw iddi ar eu pen eu hunain.
Nawr, roedd hwnnw'n swnio fel ymrwymiad difrifol ac adeiladol gan Lywodraeth Cymru mewn ymateb i eiriau calonogol mewn cyfarfod â Llywodraeth y DU. Ac eto, fis yn unig yn ddiweddarach, rhybuddiodd Prif Weinidog Cymru yn gyhoeddus, ar ôl cyhoeddi mandad negodi'r DU a'r UE, y byddai economi a swyddi Cymru yn cael eu niweidio gan berthynas 'sylfaenol, ddisylwedd â'r UE' sy'n 'ddiffygiol o ran uchelgais ac yn gwneud cam â Chymru', y bydd 'safbwynt masnachu'r DU yn arwain at golli swyddi yng Nghymru', a'n bod mewn perygl o wynebu tariffau a fyddai'n 'andwyo ein ffermwyr a'n sector bwyd' os bydd y negodiadau'n methu. Rhybuddiodd hefyd fod uchelgais wleidyddol Llywodraeth y DU i sicrhau unrhyw gytundeb doed a ddelo, neu ddim cytundeb o gwbl, yn 'amlwg yn bwysicach iddynt na sicrhau cytundeb sydd o fudd i holl wledydd y DU'.
Weinidog, dywedodd Michael Gove wrth Dŷ'r Cyffredin yr wythnos ddiwethaf fod y Llywodraethau datganoledig wedi helpu i lunio ymagwedd Llywodraeth y DU tuag at fandad y DU. Weinidog, a oedd Michael Gove yn dweud y gwirionedd plaen wrth Senedd y DU, neu a oedd yn camsiarad?
I thank the Member for that further supplementary. To claim that the voice of the devolved Governments has had a substantive impact in shaping the negotiating mandate is, frankly, a ludicrous claim. As I mentioned in my earlier answer, we have taken every opportunity to make the case on behalf of Wales. In addition to the negotiating priorities, which we published in January, based on the political declaration following the announcement of the negotiating objectives, the First Minister wrote to the Prime Minister outlining in more detail some of our priorities.
Following receipt of the draft mandate, I wrote to the UK Government setting out a number of detailed points that needed to be addressed. For example, in the context of the section dealing with technical barriers to trade, I pressed for recognition specifically of the needs of the aerospace sector. In the section dealing with sanitary and phytosanitary measures, I asked for specific priority to be given to sectors in Wales impacted by those measures, including shellfish, beef, lamb, and the dairy sector. He will not find those references that I pressed for in the final mandate.
On the morning that the UK Cabinet was meeting to discuss and finalise the mandate, I had a telephone call with Michael Gove where I discussed the concerns that I had raised in my letter, and in that call I received no assurances that the UK Government was willing to change their negotiating approach in response to comments from any of the devolved Governments, and they failed to point to any changes in the mandate that reflected things that we had pressed for. So, it's clear in that final text that the UK Government has chosen not to take account of the legitimate interests of this Senedd and the Welsh Government's case.
Diolch i'r Aelod am y cwestiwn atodol pellach hwnnw. Mae honni bod llais y Llywodraethau datganoledig wedi cael effaith sylweddol ar lunio'r mandad negodi yn chwerthinllyd, a bod yn onest. Fel y crybwyllais yn fy ateb cynharach, rydym wedi manteisio ar bob cyfle i gyflwyno'r achos ar ran Cymru. Yn ogystal â'r blaenoriaethau negodi, a gyhoeddwyd gennym ym mis Ionawr, ar sail y datganiad gwleidyddol yn dilyn cyhoeddi'r amcanion negodi, ysgrifennodd y Prif Weinidog at Brif Weinidog y DU i amlinellu rhai o'n blaenoriaethau'n fanylach.
Ar ôl derbyn y mandad drafft, ysgrifennais at Lywodraeth y DU gan nodi nifer o bwyntiau manwl roedd angen rhoi sylw iddynt. Er enghraifft, yng nghyd-destun yr adran sy'n ymdrin â rhwystrau technegol i fasnachu, pwysleisiais yr angen i gydnabod anghenion y sector awyrofod yn benodol. Yn yr adran sy'n ymdrin â mesurau i sicrhau iechyd pobl, anifeiliaid a phlanhigion, gofynnais am flaenoriaeth benodol i sectorau yng Nghymru y mae'r mesurau hynny'n effeithio arnynt, gan gynnwys pysgod cregyn, cig eidion, cig oen, a'r sector llaeth. Ni ddaw o hyd i'r cyfeiriadau hynny y bûm yn pwyso amdanynt yn y mandad terfynol.
Ar y bore roedd Cabinet y DU yn cyfarfod i drafod a chwblhau'r mandad, cefais alwad ffôn gyda Michael Gove lle trafodais y pryderon roeddwn wedi'u codi yn fy llythyr, ac yn yr alwad honno ni chefais unrhyw sicrwydd fod Llywodraeth y DU yn fodlon newid eu dull negodi mewn ymateb i sylwadau gan unrhyw un o'r Llywodraethau datganoledig, ac ni allent bwyntio at unrhyw newidiadau yn y mandad a oedd yn adlewyrchu pethau roeddem wedi pwyso amdanynt. Felly, mae'n amlwg yn y testun terfynol hwnnw fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi dewis peidio ag ystyried buddiannau cyfreithlon y Senedd hon ac achos Llywodraeth Cymru.
Following on very much in the same vein, can I say, some of us in this Chamber are not unionists? That might come as a surprise to some. Sometimes, you have to question the value of being a unionist in this situation, because in your statement last week about Brexit-related legislation, you'll recall quite an expansive, philosophical exposition of the Sewel convention that you purported to put out, and we were very much in agreement of your analysis; the fact that, basically, when it came to the LCMs about the withdrawal Act, there were three refusals in the devolved Parliaments—not just here, but Scotland and Northern Ireland—but Westminster over-ruled those three LCM refusals, citing that the whole Brexit thing was 'not normal', unique. Westminster ploughed on regardless of our viewpoints here.
Now, you said in your statement last week that you were subsequently reassured—not just Westminster ploughing on despite three devolved Parliaments disagreeing with them and ploughing on—you had moved on and had received reassurance and a definition of what 'not normal' constituted, in that it was unique, if not highly unique, unusual. So, you appeared to be reassured then that this sort of situation wouldn't keep on happening, despite the fact that we did ask what safeguards are there in place so that this situation wouldn't keep on happening.
So, it seems here, now, that as regards this UK mandate Welsh Government's being ignored or sidelined, its voice is not heard. Are we to take it that this is another situation where this is just another unique set of situations? Is this again just 'not normal', and are we expected just to accept that and move on regardless and just again say, 'Actually, this was not normal. This is unique. It's difficult times. We just have to accept this sort of stuff as the place that this Senedd occupies in the Westminster mindset'? Or do we actually stand up and say, 'Actually, this cannot continue. There are four Parliaments to be involved here. Let's do something about it.'
Gan ddilyn yr un trywydd i raddau helaeth, a gaf fi ddweud, nid yw rhai ohonom yn y Siambr hon yn unoliaethwyr? Gallai hynny fod yn syndod i rai. Weithiau, mae'n rhaid ichi gwestiynu gwerth bod yn unoliaethwr yn y sefyllfa hon, oherwydd yn eich datganiad yr wythnos ddiwethaf ynglŷn â deddfwriaeth sy'n ymwneud â Brexit, fe gofiwch yr eglurhad helaeth, athronyddol o gonfensiwn Sewel y gwnaethoch honni eich bod yn ei roi allan, ac roeddem yn cytuno'n fawr â'ch dadansoddiad; y ffaith, yn y bôn, mewn perthynas â'r cynnig cydsyniad deddfwriaethol ynglŷn â'r Ddeddf ymadael, fod tri gwrthodiad yn y Seneddau datganoledig—nid yn unig yma, ond yn yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon—ond bod San Steffan wedi diystyru'r tri gwrthodiad cynnig cydsyniad deddfwriaethol, gan nodi bod sefyllfa Brexit 'ddim yn normal' ac yn unigryw. Bwriodd San Steffan yn ei blaen heb ystyried ein safbwyntiau ni yma.
Nawr, fe ddywedoch chi yn eich datganiad yr wythnos ddiwethaf eich bod wedi cael sicrwydd wedi hynny—nid yn unig bod San Steffan wedi bwrw ymlaen er bod tair Senedd ddatganoledig wedi anghytuno â hwy a bwrw ymlaen—roeddech chi wedi symud ymlaen ac wedi cael sicrwydd a diffiniad o'r hyn a olygai 'ddim yn normal', yn yr ystyr ei fod yn unigryw, os nad yn hynod unigryw, ac anarferol. Felly, roedd yn ymddangos eich bod yn dawel eich meddwl na fyddai'r sefyllfa hon yn parhau i ddigwydd, er inni ofyn pa fesurau diogelwch sydd ar waith er mwyn sicrhau na fyddai'r sefyllfa hon yn parhau i ddigwydd.
Felly, mae'n ymddangos yma, yn awr, mewn perthynas â mandad y DU, fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cael ei hanwybyddu neu ei gwthio i'r cyrion, ac nad yw ei llais yn cael ei glywed. A ddylem gymryd bod hon yn sefyllfa arall lle nad yw hon ond yn gyfres unigryw arall o sefyllfaoedd? A yw hyn eto 'ddim yn normal', ac a oes disgwyl inni dderbyn hynny a symud ymlaen ni waeth beth a dweud unwaith eto, 'Mewn gwirionedd, nid oedd hyn yn normal. Mae'n unigryw. Mae'n adeg anodd. Rhaid inni dderbyn y math hwn o beth gan mai dyma lle mae'r Senedd ym meddylfryd San Steffan'? Neu a ydym yn sefyll ac yn dweud, 'Ni all hyn barhau. Mae pedair Senedd i fod yn rhan o hyn. Gadewch inni wneud rhywbeth amdano.'
I thank Dai Lloyd for that further question. He and I, of course, differ about the value of the union and the benefits to Wales of being part of a union, which, frankly, should function better than the United Kingdom does function. But nevertheless, we have a difference of opinion on that.
He refers to the debate in relation to the Sewel convention, and he will recall, I think, in doing so, that I was making the case for reform of the Sewel convention, not one that claimed that the current set of arrangements were adequate. So, in seeking reform, in that broad sense, he and I share that principle. But it's also important to note that there have been examples, which is why this is so immensely frustrating—whether it be in relation to the preparation of legislation or the inter-governmental agreement; or in working together for planning towards a 'no deal' exit from the European Union; or indeed in relation to the substantial body of secondary legislation that was passed in order to facilitate departure; and indeed in relation some of the work that my ministerial colleague the Minister for international relations is doing with the Department for International Trade around rest-of-the-world trade negotiations—there are examples where engagement has secured advantage and given Wales the appropriate voice in those considerations.
So, it's actually with great sadness that I come to the Chamber and say what I have said in response to the question from Huw Irranca-Davies. This is not a situation where the Welsh Government is closing the door. If the UK Government were to open the door in the weeks and months ahead, and give a substantive opportunity for the Welsh Government and other devolved Governments to have an appropriate involvement in those negotiations, we would be, as we always have been, ready to play a constructive role in that. But that responsibility now lies at the door of the UK Government, which has singularly failed to reflect the voice of the devolved Governments in this negotiating mandate.
Diolch i Dai Lloyd am y cwestiwn pellach hwnnw. Mae ef a minnau, wrth gwrs, yn anghytuno ynglŷn â gwerth yr undeb a manteision bod yn rhan o undeb i Gymru, ac a bod yn onest, fe ddylai weithredu'n well nag y mae'r Deyrnas Unedig yn gweithredu. Ond serch hynny, mae gennym farn wahanol ar hynny.
Mae'n cyfeirio at y ddadl mewn perthynas â chonfensiwn Sewel, ac fe fydd yn cofio, rwy'n credu, wrth wneud hynny, fy mod wedi cyflwyno'r achos dros ddiwygio confensiwn Sewel, nid honni bod y trefniadau presennol yn ddigonol. Felly, wrth geisio diwygio, yn yr ystyr eang honno, mae ef a minnau'n rhannu'r egwyddor honno. Ond mae hefyd yn bwysig nodi y bu enghreifftiau, a dyna pam fod hyn mor rhwystredig—boed mewn perthynas â pharatoi deddfwriaeth neu'r cytundeb rhynglywodraethol; neu wrth gydweithio i gynllunio ar gyfer gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd heb gytundeb; neu yn wir mewn perthynas â'r corff sylweddol o is-ddeddfwriaeth a basiwyd er mwyn hwyluso'r broses o adael; ac yn wir, mewn perthynas â pheth o'r gwaith y mae fy nghyd-Weinidog, y Gweinidog Cysylltiadau Rhyngwladol, yn ei wneud gyda'r Adran Masnach Ryngwladol ar negodiadau masnach gyda gweddill y byd—ceir enghreifftiau lle mae ymgysylltu wedi sicrhau mantais ac wedi rhoi'r llais priodol i Gymru yn yr ystyriaethau hynny.
Felly, mewn gwirionedd, rwy'n dod i'r Siambr gyda thristwch mawr i ddweud yr hyn rwyf wedi'i ddweud wrth ymateb i'r cwestiwn gan Huw Irranca-Davies. Nid yw hon yn sefyllfa lle mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cau'r drws. Pe bai Llywodraeth y DU yn agor y drws yn yr wythnosau a'r misoedd nesaf, ac yn rhoi cyfle gwirioneddol i Lywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraethau datganoledig eraill ymwneud yn briodol yn y negodiadau hynny, byddem yn barod, fel rydym bob amser wedi bod, i chwarae rhan adeiladol yn hynny. Ond mae'r cyfrifoldeb hwnnw yn awr ar garreg drws Llywodraeth y DU, sydd wedi methu'n lân ag adlewyrchu llais y Llywodraethau datganoledig yn y mandad negodi hwn.
Can the Counsel General really be surprised that the UK Government hasn't taken him seriously in asking for a role in this negotiating mandate? He mentions constructive engagement, and he doesn't want that at all; he wants destructive engagement. He has remained consistently and belligerently hostile to all the negotiating aims of the UK Government. The people of Wales voted by a majority to leave the EU, and in the last four years, the Counsel General and the Welsh Government have done everything they possibly can to frustrate the outcome of that referendum. We have now left the EU. There are opportunities as well as challenges ahead, but the Counsel General never sees opportunities; he only sees difficulties. The UK Government will plough ahead and deliver on the result of the referendum in 2016, to which the Welsh Government remains as hostile today as it has been in the whole time that I've been in this Assembly.
At a micro level, I think the Welsh Government could have played an important part in developing this negotiating mandate, but because of the public belligerence against the entire project of the UK Government, he will never be taken seriously. He is not so much wanting to play a part in the negotiations of the UK, but wanting to play a part in the negotiations of the EU; he is a Trojan horse for Monsieur Barnier.
A all y Cwnsler Cyffredinol synnu mewn gwirionedd nad yw Llywodraeth y DU wedi ei gymryd o ddifrif wrth ofyn am rôl yn y mandad negodi hwn? Mae'n sôn am ymgysylltiad adeiladol, ac nid yw'n dymuno hynny o gwbl; mae'n dymuno gweld ymgysylltiad dinistriol. Mae wedi bod yn gyson ac yn ymosodol elyniaethus tuag at holl nodau negodi Llywodraeth y DU. Pleidleisiodd mwyafrif pobl Cymru i adael yr UE, a dros y pedair blynedd diwethaf, mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol a Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gwneud popeth yn eu gallu i rwystro canlyniad y refferendwm hwnnw. Rydym bellach wedi gadael yr UE. Mae cyfleoedd yn ogystal â heriau o'n blaenau, ond nid yw'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol byth yn gweld cyfleoedd; nid yw ond yn gweld anawsterau. Bydd Llywodraeth y DU yn bwrw ymlaen â'r gwaith o gyflawni canlyniad y refferendwm yn 2016, canlyniad y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i fod yr un mor elyniaethus tuag ato heddiw ag y bu drwy gydol fy nghyfnod yn y Cynulliad hwn.
Ar lefel fechan iawn, credaf y gallai Llywodraeth Cymru fod wedi chwarae rhan bwysig yn datblygu'r mandad negodi hwn, ond oherwydd y rhyfelgarwch cyhoeddus yn erbyn prosiect cyfan Llywodraeth y DU, ni fydd byth yn cael ei gymryd o ddifrif. Nid yw'n awyddus i chwarae rhan yn negodiadau'r DU, ond mae'n awyddus i chwarae rhan yn negodiadau'r UE; mae'n geffyl pren Troea i Monsieur Barnier.
Well, I regret to say that I think that contribution failed to live up to the level of discussion, and, sadly, doesn't vaguely reflect the reality of the situation. The Welsh Government clearly would have preferred a different outcome to the referendum; that is a matter of extremely well established record, but what we have done, at each turn, is to recognise new realities and seek to influence within that framework. So, when it became apparent that the Prime Minister had a mandate to leave the European Union on the basis of a political declaration, we engaged with that political declaration, recognising that it wouldn't have been the starting point we would have set for ourselves, and described, in some detail, which has not been refuted, the best version of that arrangement for Wales's future, consistent with that mandate.
We have taken every opportunity of seeking to influence the debate in a constructive way. As I say—[Interruption.]
Wel, mae'n ddrwg gennyf ddweud fy mod yn credu bod y cyfraniad hwnnw wedi methu cyrraedd lefel y drafodaeth, ac yn anffodus, nid yw'n adlewyrchu realiti'r sefyllfa mewn unrhyw ffordd. Yn amlwg, byddai wedi bod yn well gan Lywodraeth Cymru gael canlyniad gwahanol i'r refferendwm; mae hynny'n ffaith sydd wedi'i hen sefydlu, ond yr hyn rydym wedi'i wneud, ar bob cyfle, yw cydnabod gwirioneddau newydd a cheisio dylanwadu o fewn y fframwaith hwnnw. Felly, pan ddaeth yn amlwg fod gan y Prif Weinidog fandad i adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd ar sail datganiad gwleidyddol, gwnaethom ymgysylltu â'r datganiad gwleidyddol hwnnw, gan gydnabod nad hwnnw oedd y man cychwyn y byddem wedi'i ddewis ein hunain, a gwnaethom ddisgrifio, yn eithaf manwl, ac nid yw hynny wedi'i wrthbrofi, y fersiwn orau o'r trefniant hwnnw ar gyfer dyfodol Cymru, yn gyson â'r mandad hwnnw.
Rydym wedi manteisio ar bob cyfle i geisio dylanwadu ar y ddadl mewn ffordd adeiladol. Fel y dywedaf—[Torri ar draws.]
Can you let the Minister answer the question without any sedentary comments? Thank you.
A wnewch chi adael i'r Gweinidog ateb y cwestiwn heb unrhyw sylwadau oddi ar eich eistedd? Diolch.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. We have sought to influence the discussion in a very constructive way, despite, as I say, the fact that we wouldn't have wished to start from this position. We have sought to take advantage of the opportunities, as the Member describes them, whether it's in relation to regional investment, or to agricultural support, or to a change in constitution. Each of these areas are ones that offer opportunity to do things differently in the future, and that is the tone with which we have engaged with the UK Government in relation to this mandate, and would wish to continue doing that if the opportunity were to become available.
Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rydym wedi ceisio dylanwadu ar y drafodaeth mewn ffordd adeiladol iawn, er na fyddem wedi dymuno dechrau o'r sefyllfa hon, fel rwy'n dweud. Rydym wedi ceisio manteisio ar y cyfleoedd, fel y mae'r Aelod yn eu disgrifio, boed mewn perthynas â buddsoddi rhanbarthol, neu gymorth amaethyddol, neu newid cyfansoddiadol. Mae pob un o'r meysydd hyn yn rhai sy'n cynnig cyfle i wneud pethau'n wahanol yn y dyfodol, ac yn yr ysbryd hwnnw rydym wedi ymgysylltu â Llywodraeth y DU mewn perthynas â'r mandad hwn, a byddem yn dymuno parhau i wneud hynny pe bai'r cyfle'n codi.
Thank you very much, Counsel General. Item 4 on the agenda this afternoon is the 90-second statements. Mick Antoniw.
Diolch yn fawr, Gwnsler Cyffredinol. Eitem 4 ar yr agenda y prynhawn yma yw'r datganiadau 90 eiliad. Mick Antoniw.
Thank you, Deputy Llywydd. Ten years ago, Billy Liddon, a friend of mine, and an activist from Cwm Colliery National Union of Mineworkers, who has since sadly passed away, told me that he would do no more interviews about the miners' strike because it was being over-romanticised in the media, whereas the reality is that it was a year-long struggle of intense poverty and hardship. So, today, the thirty-fifth anniversary of the day the south Wales miners returned to work, is an opportunity to reflect on the reality of the strike and how it continues to shape our communities today.
In defence of their jobs and communities, some 12,000 miners were arrested; 9,000 charged and five died. The miners lost the strike, and the Tory Government proceeded to shut all the pits, including those that were profitable. In the words of Michael Heseltine, 'That was the price they paid for taking us on.'
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Ddeng mlynedd yn ôl, dywedodd Billy Liddon, cyfaill i mi, ac ymgyrchydd ar ran Undeb Cenedlaethol y Glowyr Glofa'r Cwm, sydd wedi ein gadael yn anffodus, na fyddai'n gwneud mwy o gyfweliadau am streic y glowyr am ei bod yn cael ei gor-ramanteiddio yn y cyfryngau, ac mai'r gwirionedd oedd ei bod yn frwydr flwyddyn o hyd o dlodi a chaledi aruthrol. Felly, mae heddiw, 35 mlynedd ers y diwrnod y dychwelodd glowyr de Cymru i'r gwaith, yn gyfle i fyfyrio ar realiti'r streic a sut y mae'n parhau i ddylanwadu ar ein cymunedau heddiw.
Wrth amddiffyn eu swyddi a'u cymunedau, arestiwyd oddeutu 12,000 o lowyr; cafodd 9,000 eu cyhuddo a bu farw pump. Collodd y glowyr y streic, ac aeth y Llywodraeth Dorïaidd yn eu blaenau i gau'r holl byllau glo, gan gynnwys y rhai a oedd yn broffidiol. Yng ngeiriau Michael Heseltine, 'Dyna'r pris a dalwyd ganddynt am ein herio.'
Daeth Suzy Davies i’r Gadair.
Suzy Davies took the Chair.
A poignant legacy of the strike could be witnessed over the last few weeks. The sense of community and solidarity that was at the heart of the strike, was again to the fore as the terrible floods hit those same communities—from Nantgarw in my constituency, to Pentre in the Rhondda. People standing shoulder to shoulder, giving what they have to help neighbours, united in a shared resolve that this disaster would not beat them. A decade ago, Billy Liddon also told me that he thought people were forgetting the suffering the miners endured during that year. But on occasions such as this anniversary, we have an opportunity to reflect that, in the strength of our communities in adversity, the rediscovery of lost heritage, and the continuing fight for justice, the legacy of the miners' struggle 35 years ago lives on.
Gellid gweld gwaddol ingol y streic dros yr wythnosau diwethaf. Daeth yr ymdeimlad o gymuned ac undod a oedd wrth wraidd y streic i'r amlwg unwaith eto wrth i'r llifogydd erchyll daro'r un cymunedau—o Nantgarw yn fy etholaeth i, i Pentre yn y Rhondda. Pobl yn sefyll ochr yn ochr, gan wneud popeth a allent i helpu eu cymdogion, yn dod ynghyd gyda'r un penderfyniad na fyddai'r trychineb hwn yn eu trechu. Ddegawd yn ôl, dywedodd Billy Liddon wrthyf hefyd ei fod yn credu bod pobl yn anghofio dioddefaint y glowyr yn ystod y flwyddyn honno. Ond ar adegau fel y garreg filltir hon, cawn gyfle i fyfyrio ar y ffaith bod gwaddol brwydr y glowyr 35 mlynedd yn ôl yn parhau yng nghryfder ein cymunedau yn wyneb heriau, wrth ailddarganfod treftadaeth a gollwyd, ac yn y frwydr barhaus am gyfiawnder.
Diolch yn fawr.
Thank you.
Y ddadl nesaf yw dadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Allanol a Deddfwriaeth Ychwanegol: Strategaeth Ryngwladol Ddrafft Llywodraeth Cymru. A galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i wneud y cynnig—David Rees.
The next item is a debate on the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee report: the Welsh Government's Draft International Strategy. And I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—David Rees.
Cynnig NDM7286 David Rees
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Allanol a Deddfwriaeth Ychwanegol ar Strategaeth Ryngwladol Ddrafft Llywodraeth Cymru, a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 12 Rhagfyr 2019.
Motion NDM7286 David Rees
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
Notes the report of the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee on the Welsh Government’s Draft International Strategy which was laid in the Table Office on 12 December 2019.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch, acting Presiding Officer. I'm very proud to move this motion today. The need for Wales to project itself internationally, and to develop and grow its international links, has never been greater. That's why I'm delighted to open today’s debate on the Welsh Government’s new international strategy. I'm pleased that we have received statements from the Minister, following the publication of the international strategy, but I believe that this is actually the first opportunity we've had to debate that in the Senedd and for Members, perhaps, to provide their vision for Wales in the world.
Firstly, it's important to welcome the strategy from the Welsh Government, which outlines its vision for a more global Wales, and how Wales moves forward in an ever-growing global marketplace—it's critical to achieving an ambition of driving the Welsh economy forward. Our report is the culmination of almost a year’s worth of work, looking at Wales's approach to international relations after Brexit. And our thanks go to all those who contributed to our work. And I wish to put on record again my thanks to the team, and the clerking staff, and the research staff, within the committee, who undertook tremendous work to actually help us produce that report.
Now, in our report, we make a total of 10 recommendations, all of which address specific areas relating to what was, at the time of publication of the report, the draft international strategy. I will focus my comments in three broad areas: the priorities and delivery of the strategy; co-ordination of international activities across Government; and how the priority relationships and the overseas offices relate to each other after Brexit.
For the first of these areas, I am pleased that the Minister agreed with us regarding the need to include a stronger vision statement in the final strategy. Furthermore, the priorities identified in the strategy should provide Government and stakeholders with a basis for greater collaboration and engagement on the international stage. In our view, where the strategy falls down is in terms of delivery. Frustratingly, the strategy contains only three measurable targets. To remind Members what these targets are: (1) to raise Wales's profile internationally by ensuring 500,000 connections internationally over the next five years—interesting how we'll measure that and how you identify some of these connections; (2) to grow the contribution made by exports to the economy by 5 per cent, though we're not sure over what period of time that covers; and (3) to plant 15 million trees in Uganda by 2025.
Now, these targets, in and of themselves, are reasonable and are within the context of the strategy. However, we have broader concerns about the limited number of targets, and the implications that this may have on delivery of the strategy. Whilst we understand the argument that the strategy document may not be the most appropriate place for the inclusion of a suite of targets, we are clear that the strategy should be supported by a delivery plan that we, as a committee, are able to scrutinise. It is very disappointing, therefore, that our calls appear to be falling by the wayside for this.
And furthermore, the Minister's written response to our report claims to accept recommendations 5 and 6, which call for the publication of a detailed suite of measurable targets and delivery plans, and then states in the narrative of the strategy that it is not the intention to publish further detailed plans over and above those in the strategy. The Government are, of course, entitled to take this view however disappointing it may be, but to attempt to claim that, in so doing, it is accepting our recommendations, does question the credibility of some of the statements.
The second area of interest relates to the co-ordination of the Welsh Government’s activities and how they relate to the new strategy. Previously in this Chamber, I have welcomed the creation of a Cabinet post with responsibility for international relations. And such a post should help to increase the visibility of international relations issues across Government—a task made all the more important as we forge a new future outside the European Union.
In this report and in our previous report on Wales's future relationship with Europe and the world, we highlighted the importance of effective co-ordination with other key portfolios, particularly the economy, environment and education portfolios. To that end, we reiterated our view that the Minister for international relations should establish a formal mechanism for the co-ordination of the Welsh Government’s international relations work through the creation of a Cabinet sub-committee. The Government's response to these recommendations are a cause of disappointment. Despite the importance attached to the need for a formal mechanism for co-ordination, as identified in two committee reports, the Minister has decided not to implement any of them in any meaningful sense, and I would urge her to reconsider this position.
The final area relates to the priority relationships identified in the strategy and the future of the Welsh Government’s overseas offices. Now, we warmly welcome the commitment made in the final strategy to build our international links with a number of countries and sub-state nations and regions across the world. This work should be given renewed importance in light of the UK’s exit from the EU and the new relationship that will come into effect at the end of this year, whatever that may be, because we are unclear at this point. How the priority relationships dovetail with the work of the overseas offices will be key to future success. I welcome the review that the Minister outlines in her response. It would be helpful if the Minister could give more detail on the content of this review and the timescales for its completion.
In terms of the two priority country relationships, which are Ireland and Germany, the strategy rightly notes the close economic and social links that currently exist. Furthermore, the strategy highlights that German and Irish nationals make up two of our largest international communities. It is vital, therefore, that we take this opportunity, and every opportunity, to reiterate our message of support for these and other communities living in Wales from across the EU. I am sure that the Minister and other Members will join me in their support.
Looking ahead, it would be useful to us if the Minister could keep us updated of progress as regards both the discussions on any future specific Ireland-UK relationship and the negotiations on continued involvement in EU programmes at the end of the transition period. There is still concern that these may be lost if an agreement cannot be reached on the future relationship and a free trade agreement, and they boost Wales's international standing. Personally, I believe that they should never have been associated with a trade agreement. They are separate, they are programmes that help us develop our nation and should not have been involved in the negotiating position.
As a committee, we have noted the value added to areas of devolved responsibility, such as education, research and economic development, that have been gained by Wales’s involvement in a whole host of EU programmes. I am pleased that the political declaration and the negotiating mandates still leave it open for a negotiated settlement in these areas. However, I think it will require continued lobbying on behalf of the Welsh Government to ensure that Welsh needs are reflected in the negotiations between the UK and the EU. We've only just heard this afternoon in the question to the now Minister for European transition the concerns expressed about the fact that we haven't yet seen that voice reflected in the mandates.
Now, as we move ahead with future trading agreements and discussions on how future relationships with the EU and other nations will develop, we must do all we can to strengthen the Welsh voice, both during the negotiations and afterwards, once those relationships are established, and I know that Government shares those views.
Acting Presiding Officer, I commend this report to the Assembly. I hope they will support it, and I look forward to hearing Members' contributions and the Minister's response this afternoon.
Diolch, Lywydd dros dro. Rwy'n falch iawn o gyflwyno'r cynnig hwn heddiw. Nid yw’r angen i Gymru sicrhau ei bod yn sefyll allan yn rhyngwladol, a datblygu a thyfu ei chysylltiadau rhyngwladol, erioed wedi bod mor fawr. Dyna pam fy mod yn falch iawn o agor dadl heddiw ar strategaeth ryngwladol newydd Llywodraeth Cymru. Rwy'n falch ein bod wedi cael datganiadau gan y Gweinidog, ar ôl i’r strategaeth ryngwladol gael ei chyhoeddi, ond credaf mai hwn yw'r cyfle cyntaf a gawsom i'w thrafod yn y Senedd ac i'r Aelodau, efallai, gael nodi eu gweledigaeth ar gyfer Cymru yn y byd.
Yn gyntaf, mae'n bwysig croesawu'r strategaeth gan Lywodraeth Cymru, sy'n amlinellu ei gweledigaeth ar gyfer Cymru fwy byd-eang, a sut y mae Cymru’n symud ymlaen mewn marchnad fyd-eang sy'n tyfu'n barhaus—mae hynny’n hanfodol i gyflawni uchelgais i hybu economi Cymru. Mae ein hadroddiad yn benllanw ar bron i flwyddyn o waith yn edrych ar ymagwedd Cymru tuag at gysylltiadau rhyngwladol ar ôl Brexit. Ac rydym yn diolch i bawb a gyfrannodd at ein gwaith. A hoffwn gofnodi fy niolch eto i’r tîm, a'r staff clercio, a'r staff ymchwil, ar y pwyllgor, a wnaeth waith aruthrol i'n helpu i gynhyrchu'r adroddiad hwnnw.
Nawr, yn ein hadroddiad, rydym yn gwneud cyfanswm o 10 argymhelliad, ac mae pob un ohonynt yn mynd i'r afael â meysydd penodol sy'n ymwneud â'r hyn a oedd, pan gyhoeddwyd yr adroddiad, yn strategaeth ryngwladol ddrafft. Rwyf am ganolbwyntio fy sylwadau ar dri maes cyffredinol: blaenoriaethau a chyflawniad y strategaeth; cydgysylltu gweithgareddau rhyngwladol ar draws y Llywodraeth; a'r berthynas rhwng y cysylltiadau blaenoriaethol a'r swyddfeydd tramor ar ôl Brexit.
Ar gyfer y cyntaf o'r meysydd hyn, rwy'n falch fod y Gweinidog wedi cytuno â ni ynghylch yr angen i gynnwys datganiad cryfach o’r weledigaeth yn y strategaeth derfynol. Yn ychwanegol at hynny, dylai'r blaenoriaethau a nodwyd yn y strategaeth roi sylfaen i'r Llywodraeth a rhanddeiliaid ar gyfer mwy o gydweithredu ac ymgysylltu ar y llwyfan rhyngwladol. Yn ein barn ni, mae'r strategaeth yn ddiffygiol o ran cyflawni. Mae'n rhwystredig mai tri tharged mesuradwy yn unig sydd yn y strategaeth. I atgoffa'r Aelodau beth yw'r targedau hyn: (1) codi proffil Cymru yn rhyngwladol drwy sicrhau 500,000 o gysylltiadau rhyngwladol dros y pum mlynedd nesaf—mae’n ddiddorol sut y byddwn yn mesur hynny a sut rydych yn nodi rhai o'r cysylltiadau hyn; (2) tyfu'r cyfraniad a wneir gan allforion i'r economi 5 y cant, er nad ydym yn siŵr at ba gyfnod o amser y mae hynny’n cyfeirio; a (3) plannu 15 miliwn o goed yn Uganda erbyn 2025.
Nawr, mae'r targedau hyn ynddynt eu hunain yn rhesymol ac o fewn cyd-destun y strategaeth. Fodd bynnag, mae gennym bryderon ehangach am y nifer cyfyngedig o dargedau, a'r goblygiadau y gallai hyn eu cael ar gyflawni'r strategaeth. Er ein bod yn deall y ddadl efallai nad y ddogfen strategaeth yw'r lle mwyaf priodol ar gyfer cynnwys cyfres o dargedau, rydym yn sicr y dylai'r strategaeth gael ei chefnogi gan gynllun cyflawni y gallwn ni, fel pwyllgor, graffu arno. Mae'n siomedig iawn, felly, ei bod yn ymddangos bod ein galwadau'n disgyn ar glustiau byddar yn hyn o beth.
Ac ar ben hynny, mae ymateb ysgrifenedig y Gweinidog i’n hadroddiad yn honni ei fod yn derbyn argymhellion 5 a 6, sy’n galw am gyhoeddi cyfres fanwl o dargedau mesuradwy a chynlluniau cyflawni, ac yna’n nodi yn naratif y strategaeth nad y bwriad yw cyhoeddi cynlluniau manwl pellach yn ychwanegol at y rheini a geir yn y strategaeth. Mae hawl gan y Llywodraeth i arddel y farn hon wrth gwrs, er mor siomedig ydyw, ond mae ceisio honni ei bod, wrth wneud hynny, yn derbyn ein hargymhellion, yn codi cwestiynau ynglŷn â pha mor gredadwy yw rhai o'r datganiadau.
Mae'r ail faes diddordeb yn ymwneud â chydgysylltu gweithgareddau Llywodraeth Cymru a sut y maent yn berthnasol i'r strategaeth newydd. O’r blaen yn y Siambr hon, rwyf wedi croesawu creu swydd Cabinet gyda chyfrifoldeb am gysylltiadau rhyngwladol. A dylai penodiad o'r fath helpu i gynyddu gwelededd materion sy’n ymwneud â chysylltiadau rhyngwladol ar draws y Llywodraeth—tasg sy’n bwysicach fyth wrth inni greu dyfodol newydd y tu allan i'r Undeb Ewropeaidd.
Yn yr adroddiad hwn ac yn ein hadroddiad blaenorol ar berthynas Cymru ag Ewrop a'r byd yn y dyfodol, gwnaethom dynnu sylw at bwysigrwydd cydgysylltu effeithiol â phortffolios allweddol eraill, yn enwedig portffolios yr economi, yr amgylchedd ac addysg. I'r perwyl hwnnw, gwnaethom ailadrodd ein barn y dylai'r Gweinidog cysylltiadau rhyngwladol sefydlu mecanwaith ffurfiol ar gyfer cydgysylltu gwaith Llywodraeth Cymru ar gysylltiadau rhyngwladol drwy greu is-bwyllgor Cabinet. Mae ymateb y Llywodraeth i'r argymhellion hyn yn siomedig. Er gwaethaf y pwysigrwydd sydd ynghlwm wrth yr angen am fecanwaith ffurfiol ar gyfer cydgysylltu, fel y nodwyd mewn dau adroddiad pwyllgor, mae'r Gweinidog wedi penderfynu peidio â rhoi unrhyw un ohonynt ar waith mewn unrhyw fodd ystyrlon, a buaswn yn ei hannog i ailystyried hynny.
Mae'r maes olaf yn ymwneud â'r cysylltiadau blaenoriaethol a nodwyd yn y strategaeth a dyfodol swyddfeydd tramor Llywodraeth Cymru. Nawr, rydym yn croesawu’r ymrwymiad a wnaed yn y strategaeth derfynol i adeiladu ein cysylltiadau rhyngwladol â nifer o wledydd a rhanbarthau a chenhedloedd is-wladwriaethol ledled y byd. Dylid rhoi pwysigrwydd newydd i’r gwaith hwn yng ngoleuni ymadawiad y DU â'r UE a'r berthynas newydd a ddaw i rym ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn hon, beth bynnag y bo, gan ein bod yn ansicr ar hyn o bryd. Bydd y ffordd y mae'r cysylltiadau blaenoriaethol yn cyd-blethu â gwaith y swyddfeydd tramor yn allweddol i lwyddiant yn y dyfodol. Rwy'n croesawu'r adolygiad y mae’r Gweinidog yn ei amlinellu yn ei hymateb. Byddai'n ddefnyddiol pe gallai'r Gweinidog roi mwy o fanylion ynglŷn â chynnwys yr adolygiad hwn a'r amserlenni ar gyfer ei gwblhau.
O ran y ddwy berthynas flaenoriaethol â gwledydd eraill, sef Iwerddon a'r Almaen, mae'r strategaeth yn nodi’n briodol y cysylltiadau economaidd a chymdeithasol agos sy'n bodoli ar hyn o bryd. Yn ychwanegol at hynny, mae'r strategaeth yn tynnu sylw at y ffaith mai gwladolion o'r Almaen ac Iwerddon yw dwy o'n cymunedau rhyngwladol mwyaf. Mae'n hanfodol, felly, ein bod yn achub ar y cyfle hwn, a phob cyfle, i ailadrodd ein neges o gefnogaeth i'r cymunedau hyn a chymunedau eraill sy'n byw yng Nghymru o bob rhan o'r UE. Rwy’n siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog a'r Aelodau eraill yn ategu fy nghefnogaeth iddynt.
Yn y dyfodol, byddai'n ddefnyddiol i ni pe gallai'r Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni am y cynnydd o ran y trafodaethau ynghylch unrhyw berthynas benodol rhwng Iwerddon a'r DU yn y dyfodol a'r negodiadau ynghylch parhau i gyfranogi yn rhaglenni'r UE ar ddiwedd y cyfnod pontio. Mae pryder o hyd y gallai’r rhain gael eu colli os na ellir dod i gytundeb ar y berthynas yn y dyfodol a chytundeb masnach rydd, ac maent yn rhoi hwb i statws rhyngwladol Cymru. Yn bersonol, credaf na ddylent byth fod wedi bod yn gysylltiedig â chytundeb masnach. Maent ar wahân, maent yn rhaglenni sy'n ein helpu i ddatblygu ein gwlad ac ni ddylent fod wedi bod yn rhan o'r safbwynt negodi.
Fel pwyllgor, rydym wedi nodi'r gwerth ychwanegol i feysydd cyfrifoldeb datganoledig, megis addysg, ymchwil a datblygu economaidd, a gafwyd drwy gyfranogiad Cymru mewn llu o raglenni'r UE. Rwy’n falch fod y datganiad gwleidyddol a’r mandadau negodi yn dal i adael y drws ar agor ar gyfer negodi setliad yn y meysydd hyn. Fodd bynnag, credaf y bydd angen lobïo parhaus ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod anghenion Cymru yn cael eu hadlewyrchu yn y negodiadau rhwng y DU a'r UE. Y prynhawn yma'n unig, yn y cwestiwn i'r Gweinidog pontio Ewropeaidd newydd, y clywsom am y pryderon a fynegwyd ynglŷn â’r ffaith nad ydym wedi gweld y llais hwnnw'n cael ei adlewyrchu yn y mandadau eto.
Nawr, wrth inni fwrw ymlaen â chytundebau masnach a thrafodaethau ynglŷn â sut y bydd cysylltiadau â'r UE a chenhedloedd eraill yn y dyfodol yn datblygu, mae’n rhaid inni wneud popeth a allwn i gryfhau llais Cymru, yn ystod y negodiadau ac wedi hynny, pan fydd y cysylltiadau wedi'u sefydlu, a gwn fod y Llywodraeth yn rhannu'r safbwyntiau hynny.
Lywydd dros dro, rwy'n cymeradwyo'r adroddiad hwn i'r Cynulliad. Rwy'n gobeithio y byddant yn ei gefnogi, ac edrychaf ymlaen at glywed cyfraniadau’r Aelodau ac ymateb y Gweinidog y prynhawn yma.
It's a pleasure to take part in this debate. I think it's an important subject and I do commend the Government for at least developing an international strategy. It's taken a while, but I do think it should be a very core part of the Welsh Government's activities and we should spend time reflecting on it and suggesting areas where it can be improved.
I just want to talk about a couple of things that I think need to be worked on and emphasised, and the Welsh diaspora out there is something I'm pleased to see recognised in the international strategy. It's been a long time a coming I think. I remember about 10 years ago, when I was a member of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, we met in Glasgow and the Scots were really making some progress on their 'Scotland abroad' and using their network of friends and all the people really who had some form of Scottish heritage around the world. And of course, they were taking what Ireland has done naturally really, I suppose, the last century and a half, as a great inspiration—not something that could be matched necessarily. But nor should it stop us developing that type of approach, and I think they've had some successes in Scotland with that. And we should do the same. There's an awful lot of goodwill out there; there are many people who have connections to Wales, as well as people who were born in Wales and have made hugely successful careers around the world. And I believe they're just waiting really to offer something back, and I think that's very, very important.
I think key also to what we want to do, and it's linked to this first point, is promoting the public and international understanding of Welsh history and culture. We have a great history and culture. It's really one of the foundation stones, I think, of European culture, particularly the language, and it flourishes to this day. I remember when I visited the British Museum's exhibition on the Celtic civilisation, and it ended 200 or 300 years too early it seemed to me, because the Celtic civilisation still flourishes: we see it in the eisteddfod; we see it in our school policy to encourage Welsh-medium education; we see it in the aim to have 1 million Welsh speakers and we see it in the Mabinogion—there has been yet another magnificent translation in the last few years into English. So, we have many, many things. So, if we're looking at Scotland and Ireland, we are not poverty stricken with the sort of offer we can make.
And here I would also say: I think we've got to remind the people of the world that our built environment, particularly stretching back to the castles of the Edwardian era are, for good or ill, the finest examples of military technology in the thirteenth century. And it was as significant at the time, I think, as the invention of the aircraft carrier or the stealth bomber or something. It was really an astonishing breakthrough to have these fortress castles, manned only by about 40 people or so, being able to dominate the area around them. Now we know what impact that had on our political development and options, but it is in the inheritance that we've received, and it's an important example of what has happened and the experience of mankind and its development, which occurred in that area of military castles here. And it's no better seen anywhere else—nowhere in the world matches us.
The final bit I want to say is: there are some great figures in Welsh history that are often more appreciated abroad than they are here. And I am delighted in this regard to mention Evan Roberts, the evangelist of the great 1904 revival. And can I commend my colleague Darren Millar, who has done so much with the Evan Roberts Institute to remind the people of Wales of this great contribution to Christian thought? And he's often more known in North America or in many parts of Asia: Korea, Singapore—these places. And I'm particularly delighted that there's a new edition of the sayings of Evan Roberts, updated and gathered, I understand, by our colleague Darren here, and they are full of amazing proverbs of great insight and Christian piety, and I'll just read one:
'The Christian's life is not a grave, it's a fair garden, even if there are weeds aplenty.'
And I think Evan Roberts, and many others, are great figures in Welsh history that still have a mission around the world and we should use it to promote our international strategy.
Mae'n bleser gennyf gymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon. Credaf ei fod yn bwnc pwysig ac rwy'n canmol y Llywodraeth am ddatblygu strategaeth ryngwladol, o leiaf. Mae wedi cymryd cryn dipyn o amser, ond credaf y dylai fod yn rhan greiddiol iawn o weithgareddau Llywodraeth Cymru, a dylem dreulio amser yn myfyrio arni ac yn awgrymu mannau lle gellir ei gwella.
Hoffwn sôn am ychydig o bethau y credaf fod angen gweithio arnynt a'u pwysleisio, ac mae’r Cymry alltud ledled y byd yn rhywbeth rwy'n falch o'i weld yn cael ei gydnabod yn y strategaeth ryngwladol. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn hen bryd i hynny ddigwydd. Oddeutu 10 mlynedd yn ôl, pan oeddwn yn aelod o’r Cynulliad Seneddol Prydeinig-Gwyddelig, rwy'n cofio inni gyfarfod yn Glasgow ac roedd yr Albanwyr yn gwneud llawer o gynnydd yn eu hymgyrch 'Alban dramor' ac yn defnyddio eu rhwydwaith o ffrindiau a'r holl bobl a chanddynt ryw fath o linach Albanaidd ledled y byd. Ac wrth gwrs, cawsant eu hysbrydoli gan yr hyn y mae Iwerddon wedi'i wneud yn naturiol mewn gwirionedd, am wn i, yn y ganrif a hanner ddiwethaf—nid rhywbeth y gellid ei ailadrodd, o reidrwydd. Ond ni ddylai hynny ein hatal rhag datblygu ymagwedd o'r fath chwaith, a chredaf eu bod wedi cael rhywfaint o lwyddiant ar hynny yn yr Alban. A dylem wneud yr un peth. Mae cryn dipyn o ewyllys da i’w gael; mae llawer o bobl a chanddynt gysylltiadau â Chymru, yn ogystal â phobl a anwyd yng Nghymru ac sydd wedi cael gyrfaoedd hynod lwyddiannus ledled y byd. Ac rwy'n credu eu bod yn awyddus i roi rhywbeth yn ôl, a chredaf fod hynny'n bwysig tu hwnt.
Rwy'n meddwl hefyd mai’r hyn sy’n allweddol i'r hyn y dymunwn ei wneud, ac mae'n gysylltiedig â'r pwynt cyntaf hwn, yw hyrwyddo dealltwriaeth gyhoeddus a rhyngwladol o hanes a diwylliant Cymru. Mae gennym hanes a diwylliant gwych. Mae'n un o gerrig sylfaen diwylliant Ewropeaidd, yn enwedig yr iaith, ac mae'n ffynnu hyd heddiw. Cofiaf ymweld ag arddangosfa’r Amgueddfa Brydeinig ar y gwareiddiad Celtaidd, ac roedd yn ymddangos i mi ei fod wedi dod i ben 200 neu 300 mlynedd yn rhy gynnar, gan fod y gwareiddiad Celtaidd yn dal i ffynnu: rydym yn ei weld yn yr eisteddfod; rydym yn ei weld yn ein polisi ysgolion i annog addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg; rydym yn ei weld yn y nod o gael 1 filiwn o siaradwyr Cymraeg ac rydym yn ei weld yn y Mabinogi—cafwyd cyfieithiad godidog arall eto i’r Saesneg yn yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf. Felly, mae gennym lawer iawn o bethau. Felly, os ydym yn edrych ar yr Alban ac Iwerddon, nid ydym yn brin o’r math o gynnig y gallwn ei wneud.
A buaswn yn dweud yma hefyd: rwy'n credu bod yn rhaid inni atgoffa pobl y byd mai ein hamgylchedd adeiledig, sy'n ymestyn yn ôl i gestyll oes Edward, er gwell neu er gwaeth, yw’r enghraifft orau o dechnoleg filwrol y drydedd ganrif ar ddeg. Ac rwy'n credu ei bod yr un mor arwyddocaol ar y pryd â dyfeisio'r llong awyrennau neu'r awyren fomio gudd ac ati. Roedd y ceyrydd hyn yn ddatblygiad gwirioneddol syfrdanol, gan y gallent ddominyddu'r ardal o'u cwmpas gydag oddeutu 40 o bobl yn unig yn eu gwarchod. Gwyddom bellach pa effaith a gafodd hynny ar ein datblygiad gwleidyddol a'n hopsiynau, ond mae’n ymwneud â’r etifeddiaeth rydym wedi'i chael, ac mae'n enghraifft bwysig o'r hyn sydd wedi digwydd a phrofiad dynolryw a'i datblygiad, a ddigwyddodd yn y cestyll milwrol hynny yma. Ac nid oes enghraifft well o hynny yn unman arall—nid oes unman yn y byd cystal â ni.
Y peth olaf yr hoffwn ei ddweud yw hyn: ceir ffigyrau gwych yn hanes Cymru sy'n aml yn cael eu gwerthfawrogi fwy dramor nag yma. Ac yn hyn o beth, mae'n bleser gennyf sôn am Evan Roberts, efengylydd y diwygiad mawr ym 1904. Ac a gaf fi ganmol fy nghyd-Aelod Darren Millar, sydd wedi gwneud cymaint gyda Sefydliad Evan Roberts i atgoffa pobl Cymru o'r cyfraniad gwych hwn i syniadaeth Gristnogol? Ac mae'n aml yn fwy adnabyddus yng Ngogledd America neu mewn sawl rhan o Asia: Korea, Singapôr—y lleoedd hyn. Ac rwy'n arbennig o falch fod argraffiad newydd o eiriau Evan Roberts, wedi'i ddiweddaru a'i gasglu, yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, gan ein cyd-Aelod Darren yma, ac maent yn llawn o ddiarhebion anhygoel a chrebwyll gwych a duwioldeb Cristnogol, ac rwyf am ddarllen un ohonynt:
'Nid bedd yw byd y Cristion, ond gardd, er fod ynddi chwyn lawer.'
A chredaf fod Evan Roberts, a llawer o rai eraill, yn ffigyrau gwych yn hanes Cymru sy'n dal i fod â chenhadaeth ledled y byd, a dylem ei defnyddio i hyrwyddo ein strategaeth ryngwladol.
Rwy'n falch iawn i gymryd rhan yn y drafodaeth yma. Gaf i longyfarch y Cadeirydd yn y lle cyntaf ar ei araith agoriadol, yn fendigedig yn cyfleu beth sydd angen ei ddweud ynglŷn â'r adroddiad yma ac ymateb y Llywodraeth? Yn naturiol, rydyn ni i gyd yn cydnabod bod yna waith da yn mynd ymlaen, ac hefyd rydyn ni'n deall nad oes llond trol o arian ar gael i'r Gweinidog. Yn yr amser byr sydd ar gael, roeddwn i jest yn mynd i fynegi rhai syniadau—rhai dwi wedi crybwyll eisoes efo'r Gweinidog—ynglŷn â sut y gallwn ni gamu ymlaen. Dwi'n credu bod yn rhaid gweithio i greu mwy o gysylltiadau naturiol efo gwledydd fuasai'n gallu cael cysylltiad naturiol efo Cymru, megis—fel sydd wedi cael ei gyfeirio ato eisoes—y gwledydd eraill gyda ieithoedd lleiafrifol, ieithoedd nad ydynt yn brif iaith llefydd. Ie, dwi'n deall Gwlad y Basg, yn naturiol, Catalunya, Llydaw, Occitan, Alsace. Pan ydych chi'n mynd i'r Ffindir, mae Karelia a Sámi hefyd. Pan ŷch chi'n mynd i'r Almaen, mae Sorbian a Frisian. Mae lot o ieithoedd lleiafrifol eraill nad ydynt yn y brif ffrwd, a dwi'n credu buasai'r bobl yma jest yn adeiladu ar y cysylltiad.
Mae yna gysylltiad naturiol efo gwledydd eraill sydd yn wledydd bychain dros y byd: Slofenia, Cyprus, Melita, a 62 o wledydd annibynnol dros y byd sydd yn llai o faint na Chymru. Dwi'n credu y buasai yna atyniad naturiol wrth adeiladu pontydd yn fanna hefyd. A hefyd, cysylltiadau eraill efo gwledydd Celtaidd eraill, yn naturiol: Iwerddon, Alban, Cernyw, ac ati. Ond hefyd, Llydaw, Galicia, Asturias; gwledydd Celtaidd eraill hefyd.
Hefyd cysylltiadau y gallem ni adeiladu arnyn nhw, achos mae yna ffordd naturiol i gysylltu efo nhw, ydy gwledydd eraill sy'n chwarae rygbi. Rydyn ni wedi clywed y drafodaeth eisoes. Seland Newydd: maen nhw'n gwybod am Gymru achos y gêm rygbi. Awstralia, Ffrainc, De Affrica, ac ati. Mae yna ffordd i adeiladu cysylltiadau naturiol, achos beth sydd gyda ni yn gyffredin. Ac hefyd, mae yna wledydd lle mae llawer iawn o Gymry dros y blynyddoedd wedi symud i fyw yn y ddwy ganrif ddiwethaf, fel Awstralia, wrth gwrs, yn naturiol; Patagonia yn yr Ariannin, ac ati. Mae yno filoedd ar filoedd o bobl o dras Gymreig yn byw ym Mhatagonia heddiw ac yn siarad y Gymraeg ym Mhatagonia heddiw, ac wrth gwrs, Unol Daleithiau America. Mae yna 1.8 miliwn o drigolion Unol Daleithiau America sydd o dras Gymreig. Yn nhalaith Wisconsin, mae yna bron i 30,000 o bobl o dras Gymreig. Yn nhalaith Efrog Newydd, mae yna 74,000 o bobl o dras Gymreig. Yn nhalaith Ohio, mae yna 117,000 o bobl o dras Gymreig, ac yn Pennsylvania, mae yna 155,000 o bobl o dras Gymreig. Felly, mae yna gysylltiadau naturiol yn fanna, yn ogystal â'r categori olaf: gwledydd sydd efo cysylltiadau crefyddol naturiol efo Cymru, fel mae David Melding newydd ei fynegi—Madagascar, er enghraifft, cenhadon o Gymru yn fanna; a Mizoram yn ne-ddwyrain India: cysylltiad naturiol Cristnogol yn fanna, yn seiliedig ar ein hanes crefyddol ni. Felly cysylltiadau naturiol.
A'r ail beth ydy adeiladu ar y tueddiad sydd wedi bod ers degawdau rŵan i'n trefi a'n pentrefi a'n dinasoedd i fod yn gefeillio efo dinasoedd a threfi eraill rownd y byd, fel dwi wedi crybwyll o'r blaen i chi, Weinidog. Rŷch chi'n gwybod bod Abertawe wedi gefeillio efo Mannheim, a Cork, ac ati; Caerdydd wedi ei gefeillio efo Stuttgart. Mae hyd yn oed Mwmbwls wedi gefeillio efo Hennebont yn Llydaw a Havre de Grace yn Unol Daleithiau America, yn ogystal â Kinsale, Iwerddon. Dwi'n siŵr bod yna fodd i adeiladau ar y cysylltiadau anffurfiol yma o efeillio sydd wedi digwydd ers degawdau, ac fel dwi wedi crybwyll o'r blaen, efallai dechrau gefeillio o'r newydd, fel efo talaith Oklahoma, fel dwi wedi crybwyll o'r blaen. Oklahoma City, maen nhw eisiau gefeillio efo Caerdydd. Tulsa, yr ail ddinas, eisiau gefeillio efo Abertawe. Ac mi allen ni gael y cysylltidau is-wladwriaethol yna efo y gwahanol daleithiau yna, yn enwedig taleithiau America y gwnes i eu rhestru: Wisconsin, Efrog Newydd, Ohio, Pennsylvania, sydd efo cefndir cryf Cymreig. Mi allai yna ryw fath o efeillio naturiol ddigwydd efo'r taleithiau yna.
A ddim jest stopio yn fanna: gan ein bod ni yn is-wladwriaeth, felly, mae yna is-wladwriaethau eraill dros y lle i gyd sydd efo cysylltiad naturiol, megis Bavaria, Baden-Württemberg, Hessen, Saxony, ac ati, Friesland, ac ati. Mae yna ddigon o bosibiliadau yn fan hyn, o gofio'ch daearyddiaeth. Diolch yn fawr.
I'm very pleased to take part in this debate. May I congratulate the Chair in the first instance on his opening remarks, conveying what needs to be said with regard to this report and the Government's response? Naturally, we do recognise that good work is being done, and we also understand that there isn't a shed load of money available to the Minister. But in the short time available to me, I just wanted to express some ideas—some I've mentioned to the Minister already—with regard to how we can take a step forward on this. I think we need to work to create more natural connections with nations that could have that natural connection with Wales, such as—as has been referred to already—nations with minority languages, languages that aren't the major language—the Basque Country, Catalunya, Brittany, Occitan, Alsace. When you go to Finland, you have Sámi and Karelia; in Germany there's Sorbian and Frisian. There are many minority languages that aren't in the mainstream, and I think those people would just build on those connections.
There's a natural connection with other nations that are smaller nations worldwide: Slovenia, Cyprus, Malta, and the 62 independent nations worldwide that are smaller than Wales. I think there would be a natural attraction there in building bridges with those nations, and also connections with other Celtic nations, naturally: Ireland, Scotland, Cornwall and so on. But also Britanny, Galicia and Asturias; other Celtic nations too.
Also linkages that we could build upon, because there is a natural way of linking with those nations, such as the rugby-playing countries. We've already heard that debate earlier on. In New Zealand they know about Wales because of the game of rugby; likewise Australia, France, South Africa and so on. We can build those natural links because of what we have in common. There are also countries where the Welsh diaspora has moved over the last two centuries, such as Australia, naturally, and Patagonia in Argentina. There are thousands upon thousands of people from Wales living in Patagonia today, and they speak Welsh as well in Patagonia. In the United States of America there are 1.8 million citizens of the United States who have roots in Wales. In the state of Wisconsin there are almost 30,000 people who have roots in Wales. In New York state, there are 74,000 people with roots in Wales. In Ohio there are 117,000 people who have roots in Wales, and in Pennsylvania there are 155,000 people who also have their roots in Wales. So there are natural links there, as well as the final category, which is those nations that have religious links with Wales, as David Melding has just mentioned—Madagascar, for example, there were missionaries from Wales there; and Mizoram in the south-east of India, where we have a natural link with the Christian faith, based on our religious history. So there are natural linkages.
The second thing is to build on the tendency that there's been for decades now, for our cities, towns and villages to twin with cities, towns and villages worldwide, as I mentioned previously to the Minister. You know that Swansea is twinned with Mannheim and Cork, and so on; Cardiff is twinned with Stuttgart. Even the Mumbles is twinned with Hennebont in Brittany and Havre de Grace in the United States of America, as well as Kinsale, Ireland. I'm sure that we could build on those informal links with regard to twinning that have developed over the decades, and as I've mentioned previously, we could twin anew, for example, with places like Oklahoma state, as I've said previously. Oklahoma City wants to twin with Cardiff. Tulsa, the second city, wants to become twinned with Swansea. We could have those sub-state connections with different places, particularly those states of America that I listed—Wisconsin, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio—that have that strong Welsh background. There could be that natural twinning with those states.
And we shouldn't just stop there: as we are a sub-state, there are other sub-states worldwide with which we have a natural connection, such as Bavaria, Baden-Württemberg, Hessen, Saxony, Friesland, and so on. There are plenty of opportunities here in remembering your geography. Thank you very much.
I had intended to speak and it was going to be quite a dry speech, but I'm inspired now by some of the other Members. I will turn to the dry bit in a moment, but actually, if we're going to share experiences of how we can actually reach out to our wide global community, then can I suggest that we dwell on people such as Richard Price of Tyn Ton Farm in Llangeinor, whose ideas and philosophy ran egalitarian and that it should be one-vote for one person, and everybody should have that vote and that every man and woman was equal, actually underpinned not only his support for the founding fathers and for the American revolution itself, and that the 13 colonies were unjustly presided over. So he was honoured and he was paid tribute to for underpinning the very fundamentals of the American constitution and the philosophies of the founding fathers of America, but he also extended those.
He was regarded as a troublemaker back home. I think that's an admirable tradition: be regarded as a troublemaker on your own patch and then be lauded overseas. He was lauded as well for extending those same principles actually into support of the French revolution as well. So you can imagine why he was regarded by the establishment as an out and out troublemaker. But actually his academic approach to economic thinking as well would, I think, garner support on the benches opposite, because the idea that we now talk about quite regularly, about actually balancing the public books and maintaining the right balance between public debt and the wider economy, he was the first person who actually put those ideas forward and put them into writing. So he was actually lauded for that.
So his reach in America, Minister, is extensive. They all know Richard Price in America, but when I wander up the valley that I'm in and I say, 'Oh, there's Tyn Ton Farm. That's where Richard Price, son of many in the farming family, who walked to London to make his way as a Unitarian preacher, a radical dissenter, that's where he came from.' 'Who's Richard Price?' Well, that's the sort of thing we need to really use to our advantage. [Interruption.] Yes, indeed.
Roeddwn wedi bwriadu siarad ac roedd am fod yn araith eithaf sych, ond rwyf wedi fy ysbrydoli gan rai o'r Aelodau eraill bellach. Trof at y darn sych yn y man, ond os ydym am rannu profiadau ynglŷn â sut y gallwn estyn allan at ein cymuned fyd-eang, a gaf fi awgrymu ein bod yn meddwl am bobl fel Richard Price o Fferm Ty'n-Ton yn Llangeinwyr, a'i syniadau a'i athroniaeth egalitaraidd, a gredai y dylai pob unigolyn gael pleidlais, ac y dylai pawb gael y bleidlais honno a bod pob dyn a menyw'n gyfartal, ac roedd hynny'n ategu ei gefnogaeth i sefydlwyr America ac i'r chwyldro Americanaidd ei hun, a bod y 13 o drefedigaethau yn cael eu rheoli'n anghyfiawn. Felly, cafodd ei anrhydeddu a thalwyd teyrnged iddo am ategu hanfodion cyfansoddiad America ac athroniaethau sefydlwyr America, ond fe wnaeth eu hymestyn hefyd.
Ystyrid ef yn godwr twrw yn ôl adref. Credaf fod hynny'n draddodiad clodwiw: cael eich ystyried yn godwr twrw yn eich ardal eich hun a chael eich canmol dramor. Cafodd glod hefyd am ymestyn yr un egwyddorion hynny i gefnogi'r chwyldro Ffrengig hefyd. Felly gallwch ddychmygu pam fod y sefydliad yn ei ystyried yn godwr twrw rhonc. Ond mewn gwirionedd, byddai ei ymagwedd academaidd tuag at syniadau economaidd hefyd, yn fy marn i, yn ennyn cefnogaeth ar y meinciau gyferbyn, oherwydd y syniad rydym yn sôn amdano'n eithaf rheolaidd bellach, sef mantoli'r gyllideb gyhoeddus a chynnal y cydbwysedd cywir rhwng dyled gyhoeddus a'r economi ehangach, ef oedd y cyntaf i gyflwyno'r syniadau hynny a'u rhoi ar bapur. Felly, cafodd glod am hynny.
Felly mae ei gyrhaeddiad yn America, Weinidog, yn helaeth. Gŵyr pob un am Richard Price yn America, ond pan fyddaf yn crwydro'r cwm lle rwy'n byw ac yn dweud, 'O, dacw fferm Fferm Ty'n-Ton. Dyna lle roedd Richard Price yn byw, un o feibion niferus y byd amaeth, a gerddodd i Lundain i fod yn bregethwr Undodaidd, yn anghydffurfiwr radicalaidd, o'r fan yna roedd yn dod.' 'Pwy yw Richard Price?' Wel, dyna'r math o beth y mae gwir angen inni ei ddefnyddio er mantais i ni. [Torri ar draws.] Gwnaf, yn wir.
I'm grateful to the Member for giving way to this Burkean—of course, the great enemy of Dr Price. [Laughter.] I remember Brian Groom writing a piece on the top-10 Welshmen in the Financial Times, and I wrote to the FT, saying, 'Where's Dr Richard Price, the inventor of the actuarial scheme, the adviser to Alexander Hamilton on how to run a national debt? Not in the list.' And, in fairness to the FT, they did publish the letter. [Laughter.]
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Aelod am ildio i un o gefnogwyr Burke—gelyn mawr Dr Price, wrth gwrs. [Chwerthin.] Cofiaf Brian Groom yn ysgrifennu darn ar y 10 Cymro uchaf yn y Financial Times, ac ysgrifennais at yr FT, gan ddweud, 'Ble mae Dr Richard Price, dyfeisiwr y cynllun actiwaraidd, yr un a gynghorai Alexander Hamilton sut i gynnal dyled genedlaethol? Nid yw ar y rhestr.' Ac er tegwch i'r FT, fe wnaethant gyhoeddi'r llythyr. [Chwerthin.]
Well done that man. But I think the audience we'd have, curiously, on the other side of the Atlantic would absolutely recognise his contribution. So there are real assets here that we can use and, Minister, if you haven't, I'm more than happy to show you around, down in my constituency, show you where he was born and see how we can use that sort of legacy.
But, backing away from that, in the minute and a half that I've got remaining what I did want to say was that it was wonderful when I saw that the Government had actually responded to the very well-chaired committee's report and the evidence we had by accepting all of it. I have to say that some of the feedback that I've had from the business community as well has been very encouraging, both in terms of the focus that this international strategy is now placing on Wales as a brand, as an entity, and what we can do and some of the strands of it, and the feeling of optimism around it. But—there has to be a 'but'—one of the things in accepting all the recommendations here, and it was a theme in the committee that looked at it, is that we actually do want to see more detail. We want to see granulation. There's high-level stuff in here that we would approve of, but there are some sectors that aren't touched on, but are, as the report shows, touched on in the economic prosperity strategy and this, that and the other, but we need to see some of that evidence of the underpinning. Because if it's not all going to be in this strategy, we need to see how we measure success.
Beyond the three areas that the Chair has referred to, in the wider area of developing Wales's impact internationally, how do we measure success? Otherwise, the Minister will stand in front of us in the next Labour-led Government in four years' time or five years' time and say to us, 'Well, I've done all those things', and we'll say, 'Hold on, you didn't tell us what we were measuring.' So that's what we need. That would be the real prime criticism: whilst welcoming your acceptance of everything that we said in this report, our big cry was that we need more detail. Now, it may be that this is a live document, it may be that there are rafts of plans underpinning this from different departments, in which case those linkages need to be made clear so that we can then measure the success of this Government. But there's a feeling of optimism, I have to say, around it. That's what I'm picking up from people I speak to outside, so keep on driving that forward, Minister, but just give us the detail as well.
Llongyfarchiadau i'r dyn hwnnw. Ond credaf y byddai'r gynulleidfa a fyddai gennym, yn rhyfedd iawn, ar yr ochr draw i fôr Iwerydd yn llwyr gydnabod ei gyfraniad. Felly, mae asedau gwirioneddol yma y gallwn eu defnyddio, a Weinidog, os nad ydych wedi'i weld, rwy'n fwy na pharod i ddangos i chi, yn fy etholaeth i, y man lle cafodd ei eni a gweld sut y gallwn ddefnyddio hanes o'r fath.
Ond gan symud ymlaen o hynny, yn y funud a hanner sydd gennyf ar ôl, yr hyn roeddwn am ei ddweud oedd ei bod yn wych gweld bod y Llywodraeth wedi ymateb i adroddiad y pwyllgor, a gafodd ei gadeirio'n dda iawn, a'r dystiolaeth a gawsom drwy dderbyn y cyfan ohono. Mae'n rhaid imi ddweud bod rhywfaint o'r adborth a gefais gan y gymuned fusnes hefyd wedi bod yn galonogol iawn, o ran y ffocws y mae'r strategaeth ryngwladol hon bellach yn ei roi ar Gymru fel brand, fel endid, a'r hyn y gallwn ei wneud a rhai agweddau ohoni, a'r teimlad gobeithiol yn ei chylch. Ond—ac mae'n rhaid cael 'ond'—un o'r pethau wrth dderbyn yr holl argymhellion yma, ac roedd hon yn thema yn y pwyllgor a fu'n edrych ar y mater, yw ein bod yn awyddus i weld mwy o fanylion. Rydym am weld y gronynnau. Ceir pethau lefel uchel yma y byddem yn eu cymeradwyo, ond ceir rhai sectorau nad ydynt yn cael eu crybwyll, ond sydd, fel y dengys yr adroddiad, yn cael eu crybwyll yn y strategaeth ffyniant economaidd ac ati, ond mae angen inni weld rhywfaint o dystiolaeth o'r hyn sy'n sail iddi. Oherwydd os nad yw'r cyfan yn mynd i fod yn y strategaeth, mae angen inni weld sut rydym yn mesur llwyddiant.
Y tu hwnt i'r tri maes y cyfeiriodd y Cadeirydd atynt, ym maes ehangach datblygu effaith Cymru yn rhyngwladol, sut rydym yn mesur llwyddiant? Fel arall, bydd y Gweinidog yn sefyll o'n blaenau yn y Llywodraeth Lafur nesaf ymhen pedair neu bum mlynedd ac yn dweud wrthym, 'Wel, rwyf wedi gwneud yr holl bethau hynny', a byddwn yn dweud, 'Am funud bach, ni ddywedoch wrthym beth roeddem yn ei fesur.' Felly dyna sydd ei angen arnom. Dyna fyddai'r brif feirniadaeth: er ein bod yn croesawu'r ffaith eich bod yn derbyn popeth a ddywedasom yn yr adroddiad hwn, ein cwyn fawr oedd fod angen rhagor o fanylion arnom. Nawr, efallai fod hon yn ddogfen fyw, efallai fod llu o gynlluniau gan wahanol adrannau yn sail iddi, ac os felly, mae angen gwneud y cysylltiadau hynny'n glir fel y gallwn fesur llwyddiant y Llywodraeth hon. Ond ceir ymdeimlad o optimistiaeth yn ei chylch, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud. Dyna rwy'n ei synhwyro gan bobl y siaradaf â hwy y tu allan, felly daliwch ati i yrru hynny yn ei flaen, Weinidog, ond rhowch y manylion i ni hefyd.
I was expecting a little bit more trouble than that, actually. Darren Millar.
Roeddwn yn disgwyl ychydig mwy o drafferth na hynny, mewn gwirionedd. Darren Millar.
Thank you, acting Presiding Officer. Can I thank the committee for what I think is an excellent piece of work? Of course, we've seen the international strategy now and many of the recommendations have been dealt with in that new document. And can I commend the Welsh Government for the work that it's done to date on improving its engagement with the international community, both here in Wales and overseas? I think there's been a significant step up to the plate in terms of that engagement, and I think it's only right that we have a presence on an international stage. I should also mention, of course, the work of the cross-party group in this respect, which Rhun ap Iorwerth chairs. I think that that also has been an excellent vehicle for making sure that we're discussing these matters in relation to the international agenda and outlook that we all want, I think, on all sides of this Chamber in the future.
There are some, of course, areas where I do think there needs to be some additional work, and it's a shame that these were not always referenced in the international strategy to date. One of those is, of course, the tremendous contribution that our faith communities can make in terms of helping us with that international engagement. We've already heard from two speakers today about the reputation of many of Wales's Christian leaders in the past, particularly our nonconformist leaders, and the fact that their names are very often recited overseas but are less well known over here. And, of course, we know that the history of Wales has led to some tremendous links that we continue to have in many of these different parts of the world, through individual church relationships, with projects overseas in places like Africa, Asia and Latin America.
In addition to that, of course, the Muslim community has got strong links in the middle east and in the far east, in particular. And I think we need to exercise those opportunities a little bit more, and it was a disappointment to me personally—and I think to faith communities more generally—that these weren't referenced more heavily in the international strategy when it was published. I know that you engaged with those faith communities during the development of that strategy, and I think it is a little bit disappointing that they're not emphasised more.
There were, of course, references to sports as a means of engagement with communities overseas, and it's been great that we had the wonderful opportunity to engage in Japan through the Rugby World Cup of late, and that those relationships are continuing to be fostered with a visit from the Japanese ambassador to Cardiff in the very near future. I think that's it quite right that we look at Wales's sporting teams as they go overseas in terms of reaching out to engage with the international community. But we also need to invite the eyes of the world to be upon Wales through our sports, and that's why I think it's really important that we attract some major and significant international sporting events to our shores in the future. I know that, historically, we worked very hard with other Celtic nations to present a joint bid for a European cup. So, let's reach for the stars again and begin to pull those sorts of bids together in the future, in order that we can make sure that Wales is in the spotlight, and have the opportunity to bring international visitors who, frankly, may not otherwise actually take the opportunity to come and visit us.
The final point I'd make is that we do need this team Wales approach to building our reputation overseas. I was pleased to see that this was something that was recognised in the international strategy and, indeed, it's great that we've seen visits from Assembly Members to Parliaments in Canada and elsewhere in recent months, and I know that the Llywydd, for example, is representing the National Assembly in Brussels this week, as is the First Minister. And I think it's incumbent upon all of us, regardless of our political party, to do what we can to act as ambassadors for our nation, no matter where we go in the world whenever we travel and have some engagement, particularly on the political scene. It would be great to hear from the Minister in response to this particular debate whether that is something that the Government has given greater thought to in terms of how she might help to make that happen.
But can I commend the report, commend the positive response of the Minister, and say we look forward to working with you on these benches, as the opposition, to promote Wales at home and overseas?
Diolch, Lywydd dros dro. A gaf fi ddiolch i'r pwyllgor am eu gwaith, sy'n waith rhagorol yn fy marn i? Wrth gwrs, rydym wedi gweld y strategaeth ryngwladol bellach ac mae llawer o'r argymhellion yn cael eu trafod yn y ddogfen newydd honno. Ac a gaf fi ganmol Llywodraeth Cymru am y gwaith y mae wedi'i wneud hyd yma ar wella ei hymgysylltiad â'r gymuned ryngwladol, yma yng Nghymru a thramor? Credaf fod yr ymgysylltiad hwnnw wedi gwella’n sylweddol, a chredaf ei bod ond yn deg fod gennym bresenoldeb ar lwyfan rhyngwladol. Dylwn sôn hefyd, wrth gwrs, am waith y grŵp trawsbleidiol a gadeirir gan Rhun ap Iorwerth yn hyn o beth. Credaf fod hwnnw hefyd wedi bod yn gyfrwng rhagorol ar gyfer sicrhau ein bod yn trafod y materion hyn mewn perthynas â'r agenda ryngwladol a'r rhagolygon y mae pob un ohonom yn dymuno’u cael, rwy'n credu, ar bob ochr i'r Siambr hon yn y dyfodol.
Mae rhai meysydd, wrth gwrs, lle credaf fod angen gwneud rhywfaint o waith ychwanegol, ac mae'n drueni na chyfeiriwyd at y rhain bob amser yn y strategaeth ryngwladol hyd yma. Un o'r rheini, wrth gwrs, yw'r cyfraniad aruthrol y gall ein cymunedau ffydd ei wneud i'n helpu gyda'r ymgysylltiad rhyngwladol hwnnw. Rydym eisoes wedi clywed gan ddau siaradwr heddiw am enw da llawer o arweinwyr Cristnogol Cymru yn y gorffennol, yn enwedig ein harweinwyr anghydffurfiol, a’r ffaith bod eu henwau’n aml yn cael eu hadrodd dramor ond yn llai adnabyddus yma. Ac wrth gwrs, gwyddom fod hanes Cymru wedi arwain at gysylltiadau aruthrol sydd gennym o hyd mewn llawer o'r gwahanol rannau hyn o'r byd, drwy gysylltiadau eglwysi unigol, gyda phrosiectau dramor mewn lleoedd fel Affrica, Asia ac America Ladin.
Yn ogystal â hynny, wrth gwrs, mae gan y gymuned Fwslimaidd gysylltiadau cryf yn y dwyrain canol ac yn y dwyrain pell yn enwedig. A chredaf fod angen inni arfer y cyfleoedd hynny ychydig yn fwy, ac roedd yn siom i mi’n bersonol—ac i gymunedau ffydd yn fwy cyffredinol, rwy’n credu—na chyfeiriwyd at y rhain yn amlach yn y strategaeth ryngwladol pan gafodd ei chyhoeddi. Gwn ichi ymgysylltu â'r cymunedau ffydd hynny wrth ddatblygu’r strategaeth, a chredaf ei bod ychydig yn siomedig na roddwyd mwy o bwyslais arnynt.
Cafwyd cyfeiriadau, wrth gwrs, at chwaraeon fel ffordd o ymgysylltu â chymunedau dramor, a bu’n wych cael y cyfle ardderchog i ymgysylltu â Japan drwy Gwpan Rygbi'r Byd yn ddiweddar, ac y bydd y cysylltiadau hynny'n parhau i gael eu meithrin drwy ymweliad gan lysgennad Japan â Chaerdydd cyn bo hir. Credaf ei bod yn dda ein bod yn edrych ar dimau chwaraeon Cymru wrth iddynt fynd dramor er mwyn estyn allan i ymgysylltu â'r gymuned ryngwladol. Ond mae angen inni hefyd wahodd llygaid y byd i edrych ar Gymru drwy ein chwaraeon, a dyna pam y credaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn inni ddenu digwyddiadau chwaraeon rhyngwladol mawr a phwysig i'n gwlad yn y dyfodol. Gwn ein bod, yn hanesyddol, wedi gweithio'n galed iawn gyda gwledydd Celtaidd eraill i gyflwyno cais ar y cyd am gwpan Ewropeaidd. Felly, gadewch inni estyn am y sêr unwaith eto a dechrau tynnu’r mathau hynny o gynigion at ei gilydd yn y dyfodol, fel y gallwn sicrhau bod y sylw’n cael ei hoelio ar Gymru, a’n bod yn cael cyfle i ddenu ymwelwyr rhyngwladol na fyddent, a bod yn onest, yn manteisio ar y cyfle i ddod i ymweld â ni fel arall.
Y pwynt olaf y buaswn yn ei wneud yw bod angen y dull tîm Cymru hwn arnom i adeiladu ein henw da dramor. Roeddwn yn falch o weld bod hyn yn rhywbeth a gydnabuwyd yn y strategaeth ryngwladol, ac yn wir, mae'n wych ein bod wedi cael ymweliadau gan Aelodau'r Cynulliad â Seneddau yng Nghanada a mannau eraill dros y misoedd diwethaf, a gwn fod y Llywydd, er enghraifft, yn cynrychioli’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ym Mrwsel yr wythnos hon, yn ogystal â’r Prif Weinidog. A chredaf ei bod yn ddyletswydd ar bob un ohonom, ni waeth beth fo'n plaid wleidyddol, i wneud yr hyn a allwn i weithredu fel llysgenhadon dros ein cenedl, ni waeth i ble yn y byd yr awn, pa bryd bynnag y teithiwn, a'n bod yn ymgysylltu, yn enwedig yn y byd gwleidyddol. Byddai'n wych clywed gan y Gweinidog, mewn ymateb i'r ddadl hon, a yw hynny'n rhywbeth y mae'r Llywodraeth wedi meddwl mwy amdano o ran sut y gallai helpu i sicrhau bod hynny’n digwydd.
Ond a gaf fi ganmol yr adroddiad, cymeradwyo ymateb cadarnhaol y Gweinidog, a dweud ein bod yn edrych ymlaen at weithio gyda chi ar y meinciau hyn, fel yr wrthblaid, i hyrwyddo Cymru gartref a thramor?
Mi hoffwn i wneud ychydig o sylwadau yn gwisgo sawl het wahanol. Rydw i'n meddwl, yn gyntaf, rydw i'n rhyngwladolwr. Hynny ydy, rydw i'n gweld Cymru a'i lle yn y byd ac yn credu'n gryf mewn ymestyn ein rhwydwaith ni fel gwlad i bedwar ban byd, er mwyn y budd mae hynny'n dod i ni fel gwlad ond hefyd y lles sy'n dod o weld gwledydd yn gweithio'n agos efo'i gilydd wastad.
Rydw i hefyd yn siarad fel cadeirydd y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar faterion rhyngwladol. Rydw i'n meddwl ei bod hi'n bwysig bod gennym ni grŵp o'r math yna ac mae'n dda cael cefnogaeth o ar draws y pleidiau i'r grŵp hwnnw. Rydym ni'n trafod bob mathau o feysydd gwahanol o ran y math o ymgysylltu rhyngwladol mae Cymru yn ei wneud. Ac yn digwydd bod, mae'r cyfarfod nesaf rydym ni'n ei gynnal, ar 25 Mawrth, os ydw i'n cofio'n iawn, yn ymwneud â'r strategaeth ryngwladol yma, lle mae'r Gweinidog yn mynd i fod efo ni a chyfle i edrych yn ddyfnach eto ar y strategaeth.
I would like to make a few comments wearing a number of different hats. First of all, I'm an internationalist. That is, I see Wales having a place in the world, and I believe strongly in extending our network and reach as a nation to all corners of the world, for the benefit that brings us as a nation, but also for the benefits that come from nations working closely together.
I'm also speaking as the chair of the cross-party group on international Wales. I think it's important that we have such a group, and it's good to have support from across parties for that. We discuss all sorts of different areas in terms of the kind of international engagement that Wales is involved with. And as it happens, the next meeting that we'll holding, on 25 March, relates to this international strategy, where the Minister will join us and we'll have an opportunity to look in depth at the strategy.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) i’r Gadair.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.
Rydw i'n siarad fel cadeirydd Cymdeithas Seneddol y Gymanwlad yng Nghymru—rhwydwaith ddefnyddiol iawn eto i ni fel Senedd i ymestyn allan at Seneddau eraill mewn rhannau eraill o'r byd, nid yn unig er mwyn dysgu oddi wrth ein gilydd o ran ymarferion democrataidd, sydd yn bwysig iawn, wrth gwrs, ond hefyd er mwyn gwneud y mathau yna o gysylltiadau sy'n dod yn sgil hynny, sy'n gallu dod â budd diwylliannol ac economaidd i ni fel gwlad.
Rydw i hefyd, am wn i, yn siarad fel aelod o dîm rygbi'r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, sydd, wrth gwrs, yn elfen arall o'r gwaith ymgysylltu rydym ni'n ei wneud fel Senedd. Ac, ydy, mae o'n dod â gwên i'r wyneb, ond mae o'n ddifrifol, wrth gwrs, achos wrth chwarae fel Senedd yn erbyn yr Assemblée Nationale o Ffrainc—a'u curo nhw, gyda llaw, rhyw bythefnos yn ôl—eto, rydym ni'n ymestyn allan, onid ydym, at ein partneriaid mewn gwledydd eraill? Ac rydw i yn edrych ymlaen at chwarae a churo Senedd Prydain a Senedd yr Alban yn yr wythnosau nesaf hefyd.
Ond o ddifrif, i fi, beth sy'n bwysig ar y cyfnod yma o ddatblygu strategaeth ryngwladol gan Lywodraeth Cymru ydy ei fod o'n digwydd. Mi allwn ni siarad am y gwendidau, dwi'n credu, sydd ynddo fo. Mae rhai ohonyn nhw wedi cael eu crybwyll gan Aelodau eraill yn barod. Dwi'n meddwl bod yr argymhellion, o bosib, ychydig bach yn gyfyng yn eu sgôp. Rydym ni wedi clywed pryderon, o bosib, fod yna dargedau yma sy'n anodd eu cyrraedd. Ond dim ond dechrau'r gwaith ydy hyn, a dwi'n cydnabod hynny. Beth dwi'n gobeithio ei weld ydy y bydd y strategaeth yn dod yn rhywbeth deinamig ac yn rhywbeth sydd yn cyffwrdd â holl waith y Llywodraeth mewn blynyddoedd i ddod.
Fel rydym ni wedi clywed yn barod gan gymaint o gyfranwyr â chyfraniadau difyr iawn, iawn, iawn ynglŷn â chysylltiadau Cymreig ymhob rhan o'r byd, mae Cymru yn wlad sydd yn rhyngwladol, ac wedi estyn allan ac wedi gadael ei marc mewn cymaint o lefydd ar hyd a lled y byd, mewn amgylchiadau anodd. Dwi'n meddwl mai'r diweddaraf i ni fod yn ei drafod ydy'r ysbyty yn Wuhan yn Tsieina—wrth gwrs, un o ysbytai mwyaf Tsieina oedd yng nghanol y pryderon am coronafeirws yn gynharach eleni ac yn parhau felly, ac ysbyty wedi cael ei sefydlu gan Gymro—Griffith John o Abertawe.
Ond beth sydd gennym ni yn y rhwydwaith yma sydd wedi ymestyn i bob cwr o'r byd ydy'r potensial i dyfu'r cysylltiadau hynny, i fanteisio ar y cysylltiadau hynny. A phan mae rhywun yn edrych ar y gwaith rhagorol mae GlobalWelsh wedi'i wneud mewn cyfnod byr iawn, y gwaith sydd wedi cael ei wneud gan Undeb Cymru a'r Byd dros lawer hirach o amser, mae'r rhwydweithiau gennym ni. A beth rydym ni'n gallu ei wneud drwy gael strategaeth ryngwladol a gobeithio gweld Llywodraeth yn parhau'n ddifrifol ynglŷn â datblygu'r strategaeth honno ydy'r gobaith o weld adeiladu ar y gwaith sydd wedi bod yn digwydd dros flynyddoedd yn barod i ddatblygu'r diaspora.
I speak as chair of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association in Wales, which is a very useful network for us as a Parliament to reach out to other Parliaments in other parts of the world, not only in order to learn from each other in terms of democratic practice, which is very important, but also in making those connections that come as a result of that, and which can bring cultural and economic benefits to us as a nation.
I'm also speaking as a member of the National Assembly rugby team, which of course is another element of the engagement work that we are involved with as a Parliament. And, yes, it brings a smile to one's face, but there is a serious aspect to it, too, because in playing as a Parliament against the Assemblée Nationale from France—and beating them, by the way, just a fortnight ago—again, we are reaching out to our partners in other countries. I do look forward to playing against and beating the UK Parliament and the Scottish Parliament in the next few weeks.
But in all seriousness, what's important to me in this period of the development of an international strategy by the Welsh Government is that it's actually happening. We can talk about the weaknesses, and some of them have been mentioned by other Members already. I think that the recommendations within it are a little narrow in scope. We have heard concerns that there are targets here that are difficult to measure, but this is only the beginning of the journey, and I recognise that. What I hope to see is that the strategy will become a dynamic document and something that touches upon all of the Government's work in years to come.
As we've heard already from so many different contributors—and they have been very interesting contributions on Welsh connections in all parts of the world—Wales is a nation that is international, and has reached out and made its mark in so many different places across the world, in difficult circumstances. I think the latest that we have been discussing is the hospital in Wuhan in China—one of the largest hospitals in China, which was at the heart of the concerns surrounding coronavirus earlier this year, and continues to be so, and that hospital was established by a Welshman, Griffith John from Swansea.
But what we have in this network that extends to all parts of the world is the potential to develop those connections, and to take advantage of those links. When one looks at the excellent work that GlobalWelsh has done in a very short period of time, and the work that's being done by Undeb Cymru a'r Byd over a longer period, then we have those networks in place. And what we can do by having an international strategy, and hopefully seeing the Government continuing to develop that strategy in earnest, is the hope of seeing that the work that's been done can be built on in order to develop it.
I think we ought to recognise the connections we have with Italy through the Italian people who came to Wales, obviously, in the last century, and populated our Valleys, and the fact that, in Bardi, it's said that the Welsh language was spoken more than Italian at one period in time there.
Credaf y dylem gydnabod y cysylltiadau sydd gennym â'r Eidal drwy'r bobl yn yr Eidal a ddaeth i Gymru, yn amlwg, yn y ganrif ddiwethaf, a phoblogi ein Cymoedd, a'r ffaith bod mwy o Gymraeg nag Eidaleg yn cael ei siarad yn Bardi ar un adeg yn ôl y sôn.
It is an ambition of mine to visit Bardi in the summer months at one point in the future. I lived for a short time in Parma, just down the road, and I never made it to Bardi to hear this fabled Welsh congregation in Bardi, in northern Italy, in the summer.
Mae'n uchelgais gennyf i ymweld â Bardi yn ystod yr haf ryw bryd yn y dyfodol. Roeddwn yn byw am gyfnod byr yn Parma, i lawr y ffordd, ac ni lwyddais i ymweld â Bardi i glywed am y cynulliad Cymreig chwedlonol hwn yn Bardi, yng ngogledd yr Eidal, yn yr haf.
Beth rydw i eisio gweld ydy Cymru'n tyfu yn ei hyder, ac mae tyfu mewn hyder yn rhyngwladol yn golygu'r angen i gael strategaeth gan Lywodraeth a phenderfynoldeb bob amser i chwilio am gyfleon. Ac er bod yna le i wella, wrth gwrs, ar y strategaeth yma, mae'n fan cychwyn, ac mi fyddwn ni'n gallu dychwelyd at y strategaeth dro ar ôl tro, yn cynnwys, fel dwi'n dweud, yn y cyfarfod yna o'r grŵp trawsbleidiol ymhen rhyw wythnos neu ddwy.
What I want to see is Wales developing in confidence, and developing in confidence internationally means that, yes, we need a Government strategy and a determination to seek opportunities. And although there is room for improvement in this strategy, it is a starting point and we can return to the strategy time and again, including, as I say, in that meeting of the cross-party group in a week or two.
Thank you. Can I now call the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language, Eluned Morgan?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw ar Weinidog y Gymraeg a Chysylltiadau Rhyngwladol, Eluned Morgan?
Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Dwi eisiau dechrau trwy ddiolch i aelodau’r pwyllgor am eu gwaith nhw i’n helpu ni i siapio ein strategaeth ryngwladol. Ynghyd â llawer o randdeiliaid eraill yng Nghymru a rhanddeiliaid mewn gwledydd eraill ar draws y byd, mae’r pwyllgor wedi ein helpu ni i ddatblygu’r strategaeth. Nawr, dwi’n ymwybodol na fydd y pwyllgor yn fodlon aros am bum mlynedd i weld beth fydd yn cael ei gyflawni, a dwi’n ymwybodol hefyd fod aelodau o’r pwyllgor yn dymuno cymryd rhan yn barhaus i fonitro’r portffolio. Felly, dros y misoedd nesaf, byddaf i’n rhyddhau datganiadau a dangos cynlluniau a fydd yn rhoi darlun cliriach o sut byddwn ni’n mynd ati i gyflawni’r strategaeth, a dwi yn gobeithio y bydd hwn yn tawelu meddyliau’r pwyllgor. Dwi eisiau diolch i’r Cadeirydd ac i aelodau’r pwyllgor am eu hadroddiadau ac am eu rhaglen waith sy’n parhau.
Nawr, mae’r ddogfen hon yn cael ei chyhoeddi ar adeg bwysig iawn. Dyw hi erioed wedi bod yn bwysicach i Gymru gael presenoldeb cryf yn rhyngwladol, a dwi’n gobeithio bydd y blaenoriaethau yn ein strategaeth ni yn glir. A dwi’n cymryd y pwynt mae Dai Lloyd yn ei ddweud—bod yna gymaint o bethau y gallem ni wneud, ond mae adnoddau’n brin, ac felly dyna pam mae’n rhaid inni gael ffocws, a dyna beth rŷn ni wedi ceisio ei wneud. Ac mae hwnna yn hollbwysig, yn sicr wrth inni ymgymryd â pherthynas newydd gyda’r Undeb Ewropeaidd a gwledydd eraill yn y byd. Ac er ein bod ni nawr y tu fas i’r Undeb Ewropeaidd, mae llawer iawn o ansicrwydd o hyd ynglŷn â chytundeb masnach a’r berthynas â’r Undeb Ewropeaidd yn y dyfodol. Mae’r strategaeth yn nodi pa drywydd rŷn ni eisiau ei ddilyn. Rŷn ni eisiau hyrwyddo’r wlad yma fel un sy’n groesawgar, ac rŷn ni eisiau trosglwyddo’r neges ein bod ni am barhau i weithio a masnachu gyda gwledydd eraill yn y byd. Dyna sy’n bwysig. Dyna pam cafodd y swydd yma ei chreu.
Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I want to start by thanking members of the committee for their work in helping us to shape our international strategy. Along with other stakeholders across Wales and worldwide, the committee has helped us to develop the strategy. Now, I am aware that the committee won't be content to wait for five years to see what will be achieved, and I am also aware that members of the committee wish to take part continually in monitoring the portfolio. So, over the coming months, I will be releasing statements and showing plans that will give a clearer picture of how we will go about achieving the strategy, and I do hope that this will calm the minds of committee members. I want to thank the Chair and members of the committee for the report and their continuing work programme.
Now, this document is published at an important time. It's never been more important for Wales to have a strong presence internationally, and I do hope that the priorities in our strategy will be clear. And I take the point that Dai Lloyd made—that there are so many things that we could do, but resources are scarce, so that's why we have to have this focus, and that's what we've tried to do. And that's vital, certainly when we undertake our new relationship with the European Union and other nations worldwide. And although we are now outwith the European Union, there is a great deal of uncertainty still about the trade agreement and the relationship with the European Union in future. The strategy sets out what path we want to follow. We want to promote this nation as one that is welcoming, and we want to transmit the message that we want to continue to work and trade with other nations globally. That's what's important. That's why this post was created.
On that very point, one of the interesting things the committee heard in evidence—and it's been a theme, actually, both in and outside the committee—is the need to strengthen our presence now in Brussels, curiously, after EU withdrawal, because of the necessity, the pragmatic necessity, of making sure that our voice is heard. And as we've severed some of the official links and the presence within the European Parliament, the Council of Ministers and so on, we actually need to redouble the effort now in order to get our voice heard in that not only very important market but also some of the social changes that they might be bringing forward as well.
Ar yr union bwynt hwnnw, un o'r pethau diddorol a glywodd y pwyllgor yn y dystiolaeth—ac mae wedi bod yn thema, mewn gwirionedd, yn y pwyllgor a'r tu allan iddo—yw'r angen i gryfhau ein presenoldeb bellach ym Mrwsel, yn rhyfedd iawn, ar ôl ymadael â'r UE, oherwydd yr angen, yr anghenraid pragmatig, i sicrhau bod ein llais yn cael ei glywed. A chan ein bod wedi torri rhai o'r cysylltiadau swyddogol a'r presenoldeb yn Senedd Ewrop, Cyngor y Gweinidogion ac ati, mae angen inni ddyblu'r ymdrech yn awr er mwyn sicrhau bod ein llais yn cael ei glywed nid yn unig yn y farchnad bwysig hon, ond hefyd rhai o'r newidiadau cymdeithasol y gallent fod yn eu cyflwyno hefyd.
That's right, which is why one of the priorities we've said is to strengthen our relationship with the European Union. So, that is absolutely clearly in the strategy, along with the fact that we want to raise our profile internationally. We want to grow the economy by exporting and by getting inward investment, and we want to establish Wales as a globally responsible nation.
Now, a clear challenge to meet our goals is certainly the uncertainty around our future relationship with that primary market and the EU, and with major economic powers across the world. I agree with the Chair of the committee that, actually, I would have liked to have seen firmer targets; I just think it's an unrealistic time to be putting those targets in place when we genuinely have no idea what our relationship is with our nearest target market.
Now, I know that the committee has offered many helpful recommendations, and a number of those were taken forward in our final strategy. When we look at the priorities in the strategy, I think we've made some excellent progress already. So, if we're looking at, for example, establishing Wales as a globally responsible nation, it's worth noting that the Mbale tree programme is on track to achieve its best ever year in 2019-20, bringing the cumulative programme total to 12 million seedlings—well on the way to achieving our 25 million tree commitment by 2025. And we've just today, for Fairtrade Fortnight, announced a partnership with Uganda that will see the Welsh Government help 3,000 farmers get a fair price for their coffee. These are people who've faced devastation because of climate change and who we're now able to support.
I recognise, on diaspora, there's a huge amount of work to do. There are a lot of actors in this space already, as many people have said, and part of what we need to do is how do we get these people to work together. This is Wales, after all—we like to fall out with each other—but actually trying to get people together—. So, today, I've been meeting with a group of people we've commissioned to provide a platform where all of these organisations can be working and co-operating. So, I can perhaps give more detail on how we're doing that and—
Mae hynny'n gywir, a dyna pam mai un o'r blaenoriaethau a nodwyd gennym yw cryfhau ein perthynas â'r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Felly, mae hynny'n gwbl glir yn y strategaeth, ynghyd â'r ffaith ein bod am godi ein proffil yn rhyngwladol. Rydym yn awyddus i dyfu'r economi drwy allforio a thrwy ddenu mewnfuddsoddiad, ac rydym am sefydlu Cymru fel cenedl gyfrifol yn fyd-eang.
Nawr, yn sicr, un o’r heriau amlwg i gyflawni ein nodau yw'r ansicrwydd ynghylch ein perthynas yn y dyfodol â'r farchnad bwysig honno a'r UE, a chyda phwerau economaidd mawr ledled y byd. Rwy'n cytuno â Chadeirydd y pwyllgor y buaswn wedi hoffi gweld targedau mwy cadarn mewn gwirionedd; ond credaf ei bod yn adeg afrealistig i roi’r targedau hynny ar waith pan nad oes gennym unrhyw syniad beth yw ein perthynas â'n marchnad darged agosaf.
Nawr, gwn fod y pwyllgor wedi cynnig llawer o argymhellion defnyddiol, a datblygwyd nifer ohonynt yn ein strategaeth derfynol. Pan edrychwn ar y blaenoriaethau yn y strategaeth, credaf ein bod wedi gwneud cynnydd rhagorol yn barod. Felly, os ydym yn edrych er enghraifft ar sefydlu Cymru fel gwlad sy'n gyfrifol yn fyd-eang, mae'n werth nodi bod rhaglen goed Mbale ar y trywydd iawn i gyflawni ei blwyddyn orau erioed yn 2019-20, gan ddod â chyfanswm cronnus y rhaglen i 12 miliwn o eginblanhigion—ymhell ar y ffordd i gyflawni ein hymrwymiad i blannu 25 miliwn o goed erbyn 2025. A heddiw, ar gyfer Pythefnos Masnach Deg, rydym wedi cyhoeddi partneriaeth ag Uganda sy’n golygu y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn helpu 3,000 o ffermwyr i gael pris teg am eu coffi. Pobl yw'r rhain sydd wedi wynebu dinistr yn sgil y newid yn yr hinsawdd, a gallwn eu cefnogi yn awr.
Rwy'n cydnabod bod llawer o waith i'w wneud mewn perthynas â'r boblogaeth alltud. Mae llawer o bobl yn y maes hwn eisoes, fel y mae nifer wedi’i ddweud, ac mae rhan o'r hyn sydd angen inni ei gyflawni'n ymwneud â sut rydym yn sicrhau bod y bobl hyn yn gweithio gyda'i gilydd. Dyma Gymru, wedi'r cyfan—rydym yn hoff o gweryla gyda'n gilydd—ond mae ceisio dod â phobl at ei gilydd—. Felly, heddiw, cyfarfûm â grŵp o bobl rydym wedi'u comisiynu i ddarparu platfform lle gall yr holl sefydliadau hyn weithio a chydweithredu. Felly, efallai y gallaf roi mwy o fanylion ynglŷn â sut rydym yn gwneud hynny ac—
Will the Minister give way?
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ildio?
Yes.
Gwnaf.
It wouldn't be an international strategy debate without me giving a plug for Love Zimbabwe, of course, which I'm sure you're expecting. You know the hard work that that charity does in Monmouthshire, and you've had meetings with them yourself. So, can you give an assurance that Zimbabwe and Africa as a whole, as a developing part of the world, will feature highly in the Welsh Government's ultimate international strategy so we can do our bit to grow links between towns such as Abergavenny and other towns in Wales and towns in African countries?
Ni fyddai'n ddadl ar y strategaeth ryngwladol heb i mi roi hysbysrwydd i Love Zimbabwe wrth gwrs, ac rwy'n siŵr eich bod yn disgwyl hynny. Fe wyddoch am y gwaith caled y mae'r elusen honno'n ei wneud yn Sir Fynwy, ac rydych wedi cael cyfarfodydd â hwy eich hun. Felly, a allwch roi sicrwydd y bydd Zimbabwe ac Affrica gyfan, fel rhan o'r byd sy'n datblygu, yn cael lle blaenllaw yn strategaeth ryngwladol derfynol Llywodraeth Cymru fel y gallwn chwarae ein rhan wrth feithrin cysylltiadau rhwng trefi fel y Fenni a threfi eraill yng Nghymru a threfi yng ngwledydd Affrica?
Well, Wales and Africa is certainly a key part of our programme, and so there will be opportunities for Love Zimbabwe to get involved in that programme through that mechanism. Certainly, we're hoping that that platform, that diaspora platform that we'll be creating, will be a place where we can talk about some of those great characters in the past that so many of you talked about—about Evan Roberts, about Richard Price. And I think it's really important that people recognise that there's an opportunity there for us to tell the world about our story, really, and, hopefully, there'll be an opportunity there to talk about some of the religious leaders as well.
On exports, we will be having a renewed export plan, and I'll give more details of this in the next few months as well. I think it's worth flagging at this stage that the potential impact of delivery of our plans could be affected by the spread of coronavirus. We've already had to cancel a mission to China and a trade mission to a games fair in San Francisco. So, this is the problem with setting targets, and we've got a target there, and we'll try and make up for it and we'll try and make up the difference during the five years. But there are things that can throw things out of kilter.
Now, although the strategy focuses on three sectors where we can demonstrate excellence—cyber security, compound semiconductors and the creative industries—I would like to reassure the committee that our focus is absolutely not solely on these three sectors. Of course, we'll be promoting other sectors, but our aim here is to grab global attention through our capability to deliver global excellence. That opens the door for us to talk about so many other areas. So, for example, I've just returned from a visit to north America, and, during my visit, I signed a declaration of intent with Quebec Government. By the way, they were developing their international strategy at exactly the same time as us, and it took them a year to develop their international strategy, and they didn't have Brexit, so I think we're not doing too badly. But part of our plan there is to focus on aerospace and co-operation on aerospace. So, it's absolutely not limited to the three sectors.
Now, picking up on the committee's point on UK Government relations and co-operations, I was keen, during my visit, to ensure that UK missions overseas are, first of all, aware of our offer and our priorities, and to make sure that they realise that they have a responsibility to promote Wales, our capability and our offer. So, better co-operation with the UK Government, as far as I'm concerned, is absolutely key to success in the international sphere, and I'll be meeting with Foreign and Commonwealth Office officials this week to work out how much more we can do in that space. That's on top of the meetings I've had in the past. Copies of the strategy have been sent to FCO officers throughout the world so that they're aware of our focus.
But whatever we do has got to be seen as additional to what the UK Government offers. We know that we can't deliver the international agenda alone. This is where team Wales comes in. So, as well as cross-Government working—and I already have monthly meetings with the education Minister, very regular meetings with the economy Minister and, over the year, I'll be making sure I have bilateral meetings with other Ministers, so that we can explore some of those areas where they can prioritise—we also have a date set for our first meeting with civil society before the summer. We've already engaged with arts and sports, and museums, for example, are also anxious to make sure that they co-ordinate their activities with us. I'll give more detail to the committee on how we're co-ordinating this activity before the summer. Soft power is crucial. It's really important. But it's also really difficult to measure, so we're back to this difficulty of how we measure our success. We will be using our major events to leverage that Welsh profile as was suggested.
In the strategy, I have identified a number of specific regions where we will focus, where we'll formalise or build on the formal relationships that we already have. You'll know that the Basque country is already one of those areas where we've signed a memorandum of understanding. We have regular contact with the Basque Government, and we've focused on innovation, health and language in that area. Of course, this week, we welcomed the President of the Regional Council of Brittany to Wales, and a delegation from the cultural sector, to reaffirm our commitment to a memorandum of understanding and an action plan post-Brexit.
Certainly, in terms of minority languages, we've been in touch with UNESCO to see how we can co-ordinate our activities, and we lead currently the network of minority languages groups in Europe. So, we'll be looking forward to welcoming those to Wales during the next few months. Now, I'm committed to regularly reviewing the effectiveness and performance of all the activity of the international relations department, including the work undertaken by our overseas offices. That remit of those offices is under review, and that should be published by the end of April.
These two weeks are the most intensive time of the calendar, of course, around St David's Day, as we've got that focus. It was great to have early celebrations in Ottawa, San Francisco and Los Angeles last week, and I'll be celebrating with the international community in London on Thursday and Ireland next week. This week in London there'll be numerous activities co-ordinated by Wales in London.
So, just to finish up, just to say thank you very much again for the work that you've done as a committee. I am very grateful. I think that it's really important to listen to what other people have to offer in terms of how we can leverage our international relations, and I do look forward to working with you in the next few months. Diolch.
Wel, mae Cymru ac Affrica yn sicr yn rhan allweddol o'n rhaglen, ac felly bydd cyfleoedd i Love Zimbabwe gymryd rhan yn y rhaglen honno drwy'r mecanwaith hwnnw. Yn sicr, rydym yn gobeithio y bydd y platfform hwnnw, y platfform alltud hwnnw y byddwn yn ei greu, yn lle i ni allu siarad am rai o'r cymeriadau gwych o’r gorffennol y soniodd cymaint ohonoch amdanynt—am Evan Roberts, am Richard Price. A chredaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn fod pobl yn cydnabod bod cyfle yno inni adrodd ein stori wrth y byd, a gobeithio y bydd cyfle yno i sôn am rai o'r arweinwyr crefyddol hefyd.
O ran allforion, byddwn yn cael cynllun allforio o'r newydd, a byddaf yn rhoi mwy o fanylion am hyn yn yr ychydig fisoedd nesaf hefyd. Credaf ei bod yn werth nodi ar y pwynt hwn y gallai lledaeniad y coronafeirws effeithio ar yr effaith bosibl y gallai cyflawni ein cynlluniau ei chael. Rydym eisoes wedi gorfod canslo taith fasnach i Tsieina a thaith fasnach i ffair gemau yn San Francisco. Felly, dyma'r broblem gyda gosod targedau, ac mae gennym darged yn hynny o beth, a byddwn yn ceisio unioni hynny a cheisio gwneud iawn am y gwahaniaeth yn ystod y pum mlynedd. Ond mae rhai pethau'n gallu bwrw pethau eraill oddi ar eu hechel.
Nawr, er bod y strategaeth yn canolbwyntio ar dri sector lle gallwn ddangos rhagoriaeth—seiberddiogelwch, lled-ddargludyddion cyfansawdd a'r diwydiannau creadigol—hoffwn roi sicrwydd i’r pwyllgor nad ar y tri sector hyn yn unig y mae ein ffocws. Wrth gwrs, byddwn yn hyrwyddo sectorau eraill, ond ein nod yma yw denu sylw byd-eang drwy ein gallu i ddarparu rhagoriaeth fyd-eang. Mae hynny'n agor y drws inni siarad am gynifer o feysydd eraill. Felly, er enghraifft, rwyf newydd ddychwelyd o ymweliad â gogledd America, ac yn ystod fy ymweliad, llofnodais ddatganiad o fwriad gyda Llywodraeth Quebec. Gyda llaw, roeddent yn datblygu eu strategaeth ryngwladol ar yr un pryd â ni, a chymerodd flwyddyn iddynt ddatblygu eu strategaeth ryngwladol, ac nid oedd ganddynt Brexit, felly ni chredaf ein bod yn gwneud yn rhy wael. Ond rhan o'n cynllun yno yw canolbwyntio ar awyrofod a chydweithredu ar awyrofod. Felly, nid yw’n gyfyngedig i'r tri sector o gwbl.
Nawr, gan nodi pwynt y pwyllgor ynglŷn â chysylltiadau a chydweithrediad Llywodraeth y DU, roeddwn yn awyddus, yn ystod fy ymweliad, i sicrhau bod teithiau masnach y DU dramor, yn gyntaf oll, yn ymwybodol o'n cynnig a'n blaenoriaethau, ac i sicrhau eu bod yn sylweddoli bod ganddynt gyfrifoldeb i hyrwyddo Cymru, ein gallu a'n cynnig. Felly, mae gwell cydweithredu â Llywodraeth y DU, yn fy marn i, yn gwbl allweddol i lwyddiant yn y byd rhyngwladol, a byddaf yn cyfarfod â swyddogion y Swyddfa Dramor a Chymanwlad yr wythnos hon i ganfod faint yn fwy y gallwn ei wneud yn y maes hwnnw. Mae hynny’n ychwanegol at y cyfarfodydd rwyf wedi'u cael yn y gorffennol. Mae copïau o'r strategaeth wedi'u hanfon at swyddogion y Swyddfa Dramor a Chymanwlad ledled y byd fel eu bod yn ymwybodol o'n ffocws.
Ond mae'n rhaid i beth bynnag a wnawn gael ei weld yn ychwanegol at yr hyn y mae Llywodraeth y DU yn ei gynnig. Gwyddom na allwn gyflawni'r agenda ryngwladol ar ein pen ein hunain. Dyna pam fod tîm Cymru mor bwysig. Felly, yn ogystal â gweithio trawslywodraethol—ac rwyf eisoes yn cael cyfarfodydd misol gyda'r Gweinidog addysg, cyfarfodydd rheolaidd iawn gyda Gweinidog yr economi, a dros y flwyddyn, byddaf yn sicrhau fy mod yn cael cyfarfodydd dwyochrog â Gweinidogion eraill, fel y gallwn archwilio rhai o'r meysydd hynny lle gallant flaenoriaethu—rydym hefyd wedi gosod dyddiad ar gyfer ein cyfarfod cyntaf â'r gymdeithas sifil cyn yr haf. Rydym eisoes wedi ymgysylltu â maes y celfyddydau a chwaraeon, ac mae amgueddfeydd, er enghraifft, yn awyddus i sicrhau eu bod yn cydgysylltu eu gweithgareddau gyda ni. Byddaf yn rhoi mwy o fanylion i'r pwyllgor ynglŷn â sut rydym yn cydgysylltu'r gweithgarwch hwn cyn yr haf. Mae cymell tawel yn hollbwysig. Mae'n bwysig iawn. Ond mae'n anodd iawn ei fesur hefyd, felly rydym yn ôl at yr anhawster ynglŷn â sut i fesur ein llwyddiant. Byddwn yn defnyddio ein digwyddiadau mawr i sicrhau’r proffil Cymreig hwnnw fel yr awgrymwyd.
Yn y strategaeth, rwyf wedi nodi nifer o ranbarthau penodol lle byddwn yn canolbwyntio, lle byddwn yn ffurfioli neu'n adeiladu ar y cysylltiadau ffurfiol sydd gennym eisoes. Fe wyddoch fod Gwlad y Basg eisoes yn un o'r ardaloedd lle rydym wedi llofnodi memorandwm cyd-ddealltwriaeth. Rydym mewn cysylltiad rheolaidd â Llywodraeth Gwlad y Basg, ac rydym wedi canolbwyntio ar arloesi, iechyd ac iaith yn yr ardal honno. Wrth gwrs, yr wythnos hon, gwnaethom groesawu Llywydd Cyngor Rhanbarthol Llydaw i Gymru, a dirprwyaeth o'r sector diwylliannol, i ailddatgan ein hymrwymiad i femorandwm cyd-ddealltwriaeth a chynllun gweithredu ar ôl Brexit.
Yn sicr, o ran ieithoedd lleiafrifol, rydym wedi bod mewn cysylltiad ag UNESCO i weld sut y gallwn gydgysylltu ein gweithgarwch, ac ar hyn o bryd, rydym yn arwain y rhwydwaith o grwpiau ieithoedd lleiafrifol yn Ewrop. Felly, byddwn yn edrych ymlaen at groesawu'r rheini i Gymru yn yr ychydig fisoedd nesaf. Nawr, rwyf wedi ymrwymo i adolygu effeithiolrwydd a pherfformiad holl weithgarwch yr adran cysylltiadau rhyngwladol yn rheolaidd, gan gynnwys y gwaith a wneir gan ein swyddfeydd tramor. Mae cylch gwaith y swyddfeydd hynny’n cael ei adolygu, a dylai gael ei gyhoeddi erbyn diwedd mis Ebrill.
Y pythefnos hwn yw amser prysuraf y calendr, wrth gwrs, o gwmpas Dydd Gŵyl Dewi, gan fod gennym y ffocws hwnnw. Roedd yn wych cael dathliadau cynnar yn Ottawa, San Francisco a Los Angeles yr wythnos diwethaf, a byddaf yn dathlu gyda'r gymuned ryngwladol yn Llundain ddydd Iau ac yn Iwerddon yr wythnos nesaf. Yr wythnos hon yn Llundain, bydd nifer o weithgareddau’n cael eu cydgysylltu gan Cymru yn Llundain.
Felly, i gloi, hoffwn ddweud diolch yn fawr iawn eto am y gwaith rydych wedi'i wneud fel pwyllgor. Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn. Credaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn gwrando ar yr hyn sydd gan bobl eraill i'w gynnig ynglŷn â sut y gallwn fanteisio ar ein cysylltiadau rhyngwladol, ac edrychaf ymlaen at weithio gyda chi dros yr ychydig fisoedd nesaf. Diolch.
Thank you. Can I call on David Rees to reply to the debate?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw ar David Rees i ymateb i'r ddadl?
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Can I thank all Members for their contributions this afternoon to the debate, and obviously the Minister for her response as well? I'm very pleased with that. I just want to highlight a few things, because it's very interesting—quite a few people aired their visions as to how we can use things to actually push the Welsh agenda forward, whether it be, as David highlighted, the diaspora and pushing that a bit further. But then he reminded us of our great cultural heritage as well, including the religious element of that cultural heritage. And as came out—Huw Irranca joined in the recognition of the religious heritage as well.
But I think that that highlights the fact that there is so much going on in Wales that we can use to promote Wales and its history and how we have been able to influence other aspects of the world, and let's build upon that. Dai Lloyd reminded us about the minority languages. I was in discussion with Dafydd Trystan this week, who said that he had been to, or discussed with, the University of Hawaii, and how they thought that Wales was doing a fantastic job on minority languages and developing it, and that we should be using that as an example of good practice across the world on minority languages, and we should be a beacon for that.
Again, yes, he highlighted another point. We raised in this in committee—the twinning relationships that exist between cities and towns across this country with nations and countries and nations and cities elsewhere. Let's not waste that. Let's build upon that relationship. These are means by which we can create and build those relationships and develop them even more. I think that Huw did highlight, though, that there is a need for granulation at some point. We will need to look at how can we scrutinise the progress of the Welsh Government. Minister, in your response, you talked about we wouldn't wait five years. Well, sorry, we might not even be here in five years' time. The Assembly has 14 months left, and we want to be able, before we finish this Assembly, to see how progress is being made on that. So, I'm very pleased that you will be looking at some of the points coming to us, and we will be scrutinising that.
Darren, yes, the faith community is, again, a very important aspect. There are so many within Wales now that we should be looking at how we can use their links internationally as well—not just the Christian faith, but all faiths, in that sense. Rhun, yes—. By the way, good luck on the weekend against the UK Parliament; we wish you well. But he highlighted the point that, actually, there are things with this institution, the CPA, where the Welsh voice can be very clearly heard, and we should use that voice as best we can. I know Members who do go, whether it's the CPA, whether it's BIPA or other means; they use that opportunity to make sure that the Welsh voice is listened to and that it's recognised. But I think he also agreed with Rhun that the document should be a dynamic document—it shouldn't be something where we can say, 'There it is; let's look back at it in five years' time.' It should be dynamic, it should be evolving as we go through this, and we shouldn't be afraid to make that evolution of the document.
Minister, I do agree with you—there are many challenges facing us. We are in uncertain times. We don't know what the relationship will be, and you highlight that's perhaps the reason why you haven't given us detailed targets. But I think we should be still be preparing those targets, because there are probably two outcomes as to what will happen at the end of this year—one outcome is we will not have a relationship with the EU; the other one we will—and I think on both of those of those outcomes we could start preparing for that avenue.
And, by the way, Quebec—I'm very pleased you actually have a relationship with Quebec, because let's not forget that Quebec was actually one of the drivers of CETA, the comprehensive economic and trade agreement. Because they're the ones that wanted to drive the Canadian relationship with the EU. And, as a state in Canada, they were technically in the background, legally, because of the process, but they were the ones at the front, driving it. So, they have that history, and they have that experience of international relations there. So, I'm sure that comparisons of our relationship strategy and their relationship strategy would be quite interesting, to see how that works.
Minister, you actually mentioned that one other important thing—everybody else talked about it—is soft power. That's the crucial element, and that's why Huw raised the question of the Brussels office, because it is well recognised that the soft power of the Brussels office is excellent, and we should be building upon that expertise. Wales has a great opportunity to use soft power very much more, whether it be in cultural, sporting or other forms of activities, and let's not miss the opportunities.
Now, we've left the European Union—we all know that—but we are ploughing ahead with the international arena. Whether that future's uncertain, we don't know, but we know there is a future for us, and that's important, and we drive towards that. And it's a concerted effort for businesses, civil society and Government to shout louder and shout proudly of who we are, what we do here in Wales, and what Wales can offer others. That should provide us with a strong basis to navigate the waters. And I think there might be choppy waters ahead of us. But I look forward to holding you to account in the years ahead—or the 14 months ahead, anyway. So, thank you, everyone, for contributions. I hope you support the motion this afternoon.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. A gaf fi ddiolch i’r holl Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau i’r ddadl y prynhawn yma, ac yn amlwg i’r Gweinidog am ei hymateb hefyd? Rwy'n hapus iawn gyda hynny. Hoffwn dynnu sylw at ychydig o bethau, gan ei bod yn ddiddorol iawn—mae cryn dipyn o bobl wedi nodi eu gweledigaeth ynglŷn â sut y gallwn ddefnyddio pethau i hybu agenda Cymru, boed hynny, fel y nododd David, drwy Gymry alltud a gwthio hynny ychydig ymhellach. Ond fe wnaeth ein hatgoffa wedyn o'n treftadaeth ddiwylliannol wych hefyd, gan gynnwys elfen grefyddol y dreftadaeth ddiwylliannol honno. Ac fel y gwelwyd—ymunodd Huw Irranca ag ef hefyd i gydnabod y dreftadaeth grefyddol.
Ond credaf fod hynny'n tynnu sylw at y ffaith bod cymaint yn digwydd yng Nghymru y gallwn ei ddefnyddio i hyrwyddo Cymru a'i hanes a sut rydym wedi gallu dylanwadu ar agweddau eraill ar y byd, a gadewch inni adeiladu ar hynny. Cawsom ein hatgoffa gan Dai Lloyd am yr ieithoedd lleiafrifol. Bûm yn trafod gyda Dafydd Trystan yr wythnos hon, a ddywedodd ei fod wedi bod yn, neu wedi trafod â Phrifysgol Hawaii, a sut roeddent yn meddwl bod Cymru’n gwneud gwaith gwych ar ieithoedd lleiafrifol ac ar ddatblygu’r maes, ac y dylem ddefnyddio hynny fel enghraifft o ymarfer da ledled y byd ar ieithoedd lleiafrifol, ac y dylem arwain ar hynny.
Unwaith eto, do, fe dynnodd sylw at bwynt arall. Fe wnaethom godi hyn yn y pwyllgor—y cysylltiadau gefeillio rhwng dinasoedd a threfi ledled y wlad hon â chenhedloedd a gwledydd a dinasoedd mewn mannau eraill. Gadewch inni beidio â gwastraffu hynny. Gadewch inni adeiladu ar y berthynas honno. Mae'r rhain yn ffyrdd y gallwn greu ac adeiladu'r cysylltiadau hynny a'u datblygu hyd yn oed yn ymhellach. Credaf i Huw dynnu sylw ar un pwynt, serch hynny, at yr angen i fanylu. Bydd angen inni edrych ar sut y gallwn graffu ar gynnydd Llywodraeth Cymru. Weinidog, yn eich ymateb, fe ddywedoch chi na fyddem yn aros pum mlynedd. Wel, mae'n ddrwg gennyf, efallai na fyddwn yma ymhen pum mlynedd. Mae gan y Cynulliad 14 mis ar ôl, a chyn diwedd y Cynulliad hwn, rydym am allu gweld pa gynnydd a wneir ar hynny. Felly, rwy'n falch iawn y byddwch yn edrych ar rai o'r pwyntiau a godwyd, a byddwn yn craffu ar hynny.
Darren, ydy, mae'r gymuned ffydd, unwaith eto, yn agwedd bwysig iawn. Mae cymaint ohonynt yng Nghymru y dylem fod yn edrych arnynt o ran sut y gallwn ddefnyddio eu cysylltiadau yn rhyngwladol hefyd—nid y ffydd Gristnogol yn unig, ond pob ffydd, o ran hynny. Rhun, ie—. Gyda llaw, pob lwc dros y penwythnos yn erbyn Senedd y DU; dymunwn yn dda i chi. Ond tynnodd sylw at y pwynt fod pethau gyda'r sefydliad hwn, Cymdeithas Seneddol y Gymanwlad, lle gellir clywed llais Cymru’n glir iawn, a dylem ddefnyddio'r llais hwnnw cystal ag y gallwn. Gwn am Aelodau sy'n mynd drwy Gymdeithas Seneddol y Gymanwlad, neu drwy’r Cynulliad Seneddol Prydeinig-Gwyddelig neu drwy ddulliau eraill; maent yn defnyddio'r cyfle hwnnw i sicrhau bod rhywun yn gwrando ar lais Cymru a'i fod yn cael ei adnabod. Ond credaf iddo gytuno â Rhun hefyd y dylai'r ddogfen fod yn ddogfen ddynamig—ni ddylai fod yn rhywbeth lle gallwn ddweud, 'Dyna ni; gadewch inni edrych arni eto ymhen pum mlynedd.' Dylai fod yn ddynamig, dylai esblygu wrth inni fwrw ymlaen â hyn, ac ni ddylem ofni esblygiad y ddogfen honno.
Weinidog, rwy'n cytuno â chi—rydym yn wynebu llawer o heriau. Rydym mewn cyfnod ansicr. Nid ydym yn gwybod beth fydd y berthynas, ac rydych yn nodi mai dyna'r rheswm, o bosibl, pam nad ydych wedi rhoi targedau manwl i ni. Ond credaf y dylem fod yn paratoi'r targedau hynny o hyd, gan fod dau ganlyniad, mae’n debyg, o ran yr hyn a fydd yn digwydd ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn—un canlyniad yw na fydd gennym berthynas â'r UE; y llall yw y bydd gennym berthynas—a chredaf, o ran y ddau ganlyniad, y gallem ddechrau paratoi ar gyfer y llwybr hwnnw.
A gyda llaw, Quebec—rwy’n falch iawn fod gennych berthynas â Quebec, oherwydd gadewch inni beidio ag anghofio bod Quebec yn un o ysgogwyr CETA, y cytundeb economaidd a masnach cynhwysfawr. Oherwydd hwy yw'r rhai a oedd am lywio perthynas Canada â'r UE. Ac fel talaith yng Nghanada, roeddent yn y cefndir, yn dechnegol, yn gyfreithiol, oherwydd y broses, ond roeddent ar flaen y gad, yn ei llywio. Felly, mae ganddynt yr hanes hwnnw, ac mae ganddynt y profiad hwnnw o gysylltiadau rhyngwladol yno. Felly, rwy'n siŵr y byddai’n eithaf diddorol cymharu ein strategaeth gysylltiadau a'u strategaeth gysylltiadau hwy, i weld sut y mae hynny’n gweithio.
Weinidog, fe sonioch chi am y peth pwysig arall—soniodd pawb arall amdano—sef cymell tawel. Dyna'r elfen hanfodol, a dyna pam y gofynnodd Huw y cwestiwn ynglŷn â swyddfa Brwsel, gan y cydnabyddir fod cymell tawel swyddfa Brwsel yn rhagorol, a dylem adeiladu ar yr arbenigedd hwnnw. Mae gan Gymru gyfle gwych i wneud llawer mwy o ddefnydd o gymell tawel, boed drwy weithgareddau diwylliannol, chwaraeon neu fathau eraill o weithgareddau, a gadewch inni beidio â cholli'r cyfleoedd.
Nawr, rydym wedi gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd—mae pob un ohonom yn gwybod hynny—ond rydym yn bwrw ymlaen â'r arena ryngwladol. P'un a yw'r dyfodol hwnnw'n ansicr, nid ydym yn gwybod, ond gwyddom fod dyfodol i ni, ac mae hynny'n bwysig, ac rydym yn bwrw ymlaen tuag at hynny. Ac mae'n ymdrech ar y cyd i fusnesau, cymdeithas sifil a'r Llywodraeth weiddi'n uwch a gweiddi'n falch ynglŷn â phwy ydym ni, beth rydym yn ei wneud yma yng Nghymru, a'r hyn y gall Cymru ei gynnig i eraill. Dylai hynny roi sylfaen gref inni allu hwylio’r dyfroedd. A chredaf y gall fod dyfroedd garw o'n blaenau. Ond edrychaf ymlaen at eich dwyn i gyfrif yn y blynyddoedd i ddod—neu’r 14 mis i ddod, beth bynnag. Felly, diolch i bawb am eich cyfraniadau. Rwy'n gobeithio y gwnewch chi gefnogi’r cynnig y prynhawn yma.
Thank you. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Diolch. Y cynnig yw nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Na. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Siân Gwenllian, a gwelliannau 2, 3, 4, 5 a 6 yn enw Neil McEvoy.
The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Siân Gwenllian, and amendments 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 in the name of Neil McEvoy.
We now move to item 6 on the agenda, which is the Welsh Conservative debate on looked-after children, and I call on Janet Finch-Saunders to move the motion.
Symudwn yn awr at eitem 6 ar yr agenda, sef dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ar blant sy'n derbyn gofal, a galwaf ar Janet Finch-Saunders i gyflwyno'r cynnig.
Cynnig NDM7287 Darren Millar
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru;
1. Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus i blant a phobl ifanc sydd wedi cael profiad o'r maes gofal ac Adroddiad Blynyddol Rhaglen Grŵp Cynghori'r Gweinidog ar Wella Canlyniadau i Blant ar gyfer 2019.
2. Yn nodi ymhellach bod cyfleoedd bywyd plant sy'n derbyn gofal a'r rhai sy'n gadael gofal yn sylweddol waeth na'r plant hynny nad ydynt mewn gofal.
3. Yn gresynu bod nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal yng Nghymru wedi codi 34 y cant yn ystod y 15 mlynedd diwethaf, a bod bron i 10 y cant o blant mewn gofal wedi bod mewn tri neu fwy o leoliadau.
4. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i wneud y canlynol:
a) adolygu cynlluniau awdurdodau lleol ar frys o ran lleihau nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal;
b) cynorthwyo awdurdodau lleol i recriwtio 550 o deuluoedd maeth yng Nghymru i lenwi'r bylchau a ganfuwyd gan y Rhwydwaith Maethu;
c) ymchwilio i gymorth ariannol ac adsefydlu sydd ar gael i rieni mabwysiadol; a
d) sicrhau bod mynediad i gyrsiau rhianta cadarnhaol am ddim yn cael ei gynnig i bob rhiant a gwarcheidwad ledled Cymru.
Motion NDM7287 Darren Millar
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales;
1. Notes the Public Accounts Committee’s report into care experienced children and young people and the Ministerial Advisory Group for Improving Outcomes for Children Programme’s Annual Report 2019.
2. Further notes that the life chances of looked-after children and care leavers are significantly poorer than those children who are not in care.
3. Regrets that the number of looked after children in Wales has risen by 34 per cent in the last 15 years, and that nearly 10 per cent of children in care have been in three or more placements.
4. Calls on the Welsh Government to:
a) urgently review local authority plans on reducing the numbers of looked-after children;
b) assist local authorities in recruiting 550 Welsh foster families to cover the gaps found by the Fostering Network;
c) investigate financial and rehabilitative support available to adoptive parents; and
d) ensure the roll out of access to free positive parenting courses to be offered for all parents and guardians across Wales.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Care-experienced children and young people in care are some of the most vulnerable in our society. Nearly two thirds of those individuals are in care, sadly, because of abuse or neglect. Now, there is a declared interest already across the floor here in supporting looked-after children, whilst also, too, looking at safely reducing those numbers.
Even the First Minister of Wales did make a pledge in his leadership manifesto to ensure that the problem is gripped and resolved. Unfortunately, however, the situation in Wales currently is slipping out of control. There are currently 6,845 children aged between 0 and 18 looked after by local authorities. This is a 2.1 per cent—21 per cent, sorry—increase since the end of the last Assembly term, in March 2016, and there has been a 34 per cent rise in the last 15 years. Wales had 109 looked-after children per 10,000 by the end of March last year, compared with 65 per 10,000 in England. Similarly, Northern Ireland and Scotland have recorded less serious rates, and the Commission on Justice in Wales has noted that what is striking is the marked and continual increase in the rate in Wales, and the widening gap with England.
I fear that Siân Gwenllian, our colleague Assembly Member, is right—the policy of local authority reduction targets is a superficial solution. In fact, evidence points to that Wales is not getting to grips with the root causes of children ending up in care. The strategy does not seem to be working, so we need to urgently review the plans and programmes of assistance for children and their families.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae plant sydd wedi cael profiad o ofal a phobl ifanc sy'n derbyn gofal yn rhai o'r bobl fwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas. Mae bron i ddwy ran o dair o'r unigolion hynny mewn gofal, yn anffodus, oherwydd camdriniaeth neu esgeulustod. Nawr, mae diddordeb wedi'i ddatgan eisoes ar draws y llawr yma mewn cefnogi plant sy'n derbyn gofal gan edrych hefyd ar leihau'r niferoedd hynny'n ddiogel.
Gwnaeth hyd yn oed Prif Weinidog Cymru addewid yn ei faniffesto arweinyddiaeth i sicrhau bod y broblem yn cael sylw ac yn cael ei datrys. Yn anffodus, fodd bynnag, ar hyn o bryd, mae'r sefyllfa yng Nghymru yn llithro allan o reolaeth. Ar hyn o bryd, mae 6,845 o blant rhwng 0 a 18 oed yn derbyn gofal gan awdurdodau lleol. Dyna gynnydd o 2.1 y cant—21 y cant, mae'n ddrwg gennyf—ers diwedd tymor diwethaf y Cynulliad, ym mis Mawrth 2016, a bu cynnydd o 34 y cant yn y 15 mlynedd diwethaf. Roedd gan Gymru 109 o blant sy'n derbyn gofal ym mhob 10,000 o'r boblogaeth erbyn diwedd mis Mawrth y llynedd, o gymharu â 65 ym mhob 10,000 o'r boblogaeth yn Lloegr. Yn yr un modd, mae Gogledd Iwerddon a'r Alban wedi cofnodi cyfraddau llai difrifol, ac mae'r Comisiwn ar Gyfiawnder yng Nghymru wedi nodi mai'r hyn sy'n drawiadol yw'r cynnydd amlwg a pharhaus yn y gyfradd yng Nghymru, a'r bwlch sy'n lledu rhyngom ni â Lloegr.
Mae arnaf ofn fod Siân Gwenllian, ein cyd-Aelod Cynulliad, yn iawn—mae polisi o dargedau lleihau i awdurdodau lleol yn ateb arwynebol. Mewn gwirionedd, mae'r dystiolaeth yn dangos nad yw Cymru'n mynd i'r afael â'r rhesymau sylfaenol pam fod plant yn cael eu rhoi mewn gofal. Ymddengys nad yw'r strategaeth yn gweithio, felly mae angen inni adolygu'r cynlluniau a'r rhaglenni cymorth i blant a'u teuluoedd ar frys.
Now, I'm all for prevention and early intervention, and appreciate that many of you are too, such as the ministerial advisory group, which has reinforced moves towards prevention. Importantly, the Public Accounts Committee's report highlighted that there is an opportunity to better use preventative spending to secure better long-term outcomes for our children. However, there is still room for improvement. For example, whilst £5 million was given to 22 local authorities to provide edge-of-care services in 2017-18, the justice commission in Wales has been sceptical about the success of the expenditure to date. Concern has also been raised by the Association of Directors of Social Services, they say the limited moneys councils have available is increasingly being taken up with the provision of the urgent help for children and families already at crisis point, leaving very little to invest in early intervention. Personally, I commend the success of the Troubled Families programme launched by the UK Govenrment in 2012. It has seen a 32 per cent difference in the proportion of looked-after children. As Professor Jonathan Portes of King's College London stated, the
'most...significant impact of the programme is to reduce the number of children going into care'.
For those children who do enter the care system, the Welsh Government has a long way to go on improving life chances for these children. In terms of education, at key stage 2, just 58.3 per cent of looked-after children achieve the core subject indicator, compared with an 87.8 per cent average across Wales. At key stage 4, just 10.9 per cent achieve the core subject indicator, compared with roughly 60 per cent overall. Those facts come despite our current First Minister having co-published the 'Raising the ambitions and educational attainment of children who are looked after in Wales: Strategy' in 2016. Progress may be achieved by considering the Skolfam initiative in Sweden and introducing a looked-after children premium.
Now, in terms of mental health, NSPCC found that looked-after children are five times more likely to suffer from any mental health disorder, and nine times more likely to have a behavioural disorder. And, a recent study by Cardiff University showed some truly shocking facts about young people in residential care, such as: they have the lowest mental well-being score; 56 per cent have been exposed to bullying; and a greater percentage of them have been found to be drunk and used cannabis in the last month than children not in care. Now, whilst the Welsh Government has committed further investment into the emotional and mental health of all children and young people, I cannot overlook the fact that we in the CYPE Committee felt it was unclear. We need to know how much exactly is being targeted at looked-after children specifically. How is this being monitored in terms of its impact on delivering the 'Mind over matter' recommendations? In terms of a brighter future, findings by the National Audit Office and the Children's Society highlight that care leavers are at increased risk of homelessness and poverty.
Wales can and should facilitate better futures for our children than this, and there are steps that we can take. For example, again, the Public Accounts Committee's report recommended that all care-experienced children are routinely made aware of their right to an advocate and provided with clear information about how to access the range of available advocacy services. These are not big asks, but they need to be in place. However, TGP Cymru recently found that only 5 per cent to 10 per cent of children's homes run by the private sector have residential visiting advocacy arrangements in place. So, we should also act on the calls made by the Children's Society to help ensure that Welsh local authorities are identifying European national young children in and who have left their care, so that they can be supported with securing their status or citizenship if required. Similarly, we need to support placements. The Fostering Network has reported that Wales needs another 550 foster families to ensure that children get to the right home first. If we do not achieve this, some children face being split up from their own siblings. Local authorities have started joining the recruiting challenge, but your Government needs to be doing more to assist them.
The same is true in relation to adoptive parents, which does bring me to my final point. I have a constituent who has one foster child and one adopted child. She desperately, passionately wants to incorporate the foster child into the family and become an adopted parent. Upon asking her whether this was going to happen she said 'no', and this was simply due to the significant decrease in support that would follow. Quite often, when people move from the fostering model to the adoptive model, you're very much on your own to get on with it, and it doesn't work like that. The support should still be there for adoptive parents to keep those families together, and I've actually dealt with two other cases where siblings have potentially faced being separated because adopting siblings can be quite intensive in terms of support requirements. There is no duty on anybody to support adoptive parents. So, I ask you, Deputy Minister, to really look at this and let's try and get more of our children, where needed, into adoptive parent situations.
The situation for looked-after children in Wales can be quite depressing, but I have hope for the future, and I have hope for these children. Working together cross-party here and elsewhere, I actually believe that our motion today speaks common sense, it is what is required, and it would be really refreshing if the Welsh Government could support our motion today. Thank you. Diolch.
Nawr, rwy'n llwyr o blaid atal ac ymyrryd yn gynnar, ac rwy'n derbyn bod llawer ohonoch chi hefyd, fel grŵp cynghori'r Gweinidog, sydd wedi atgyfnerthu symudiadau tuag at atal. Yn bwysig, tanlinellodd adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus fod cyfle i ddefnyddio gwariant ataliol yn well i sicrhau canlyniadau hirdymor gwell i'n plant. Fodd bynnag, mae lle i wella o hyd. Er enghraifft, er bod £5 miliwn wedi'i roi i 22 awdurdod lleol i ddarparu gwasanaethau ar ffiniau gofal yn 2017-18, mae'r comisiwn cyfiawnder yng Nghymru wedi bod yn amheus ynglŷn â llwyddiant y gwariant hyd yma. Mynegwyd pryder hefyd gan Gymdeithas Cyfarwyddwyr Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, sy'n dweud bod yr arian cyfyngedig sydd ar gael yn mynd yn gynyddol ar ddarparu cymorth brys i blant a theuluoedd sydd eisoes mewn argyfwng, gan adael fawr ddim i'w fuddsoddi mewn ymyrraeth gynnar. Yn bersonol, rwy'n cymeradwyo llwyddiant y rhaglen Troubled Families a lansiwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU yn 2012. Mae wedi gweld gwahaniaeth o 32 y cant yng nghyfran y plant sy'n derbyn gofal. Fel y dywedodd yr Athro Jonathan Portes o Goleg y Brenin, Llundain,
effaith fwyaf sylweddol y rhaglen yw lleihau nifer y plant sy'n cael eu rhoi mewn gofal.
Mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru ffordd bell i fynd i wella cyfleoedd bywyd y plant sy'n mynd i mewn i'r system ofal. Mewn perthynas ag addysg, yng nghyfnod allweddol 2, dim ond 58.3 y cant o blant sy'n derbyn gofal sy'n cyflawni'r dangosydd pynciau craidd, o'i gymharu â chyfartaledd o 87.8 y cant ledled Cymru. Yng nghyfnod allweddol 4, dim ond 10.9 y cant sy'n cyflawni'r dangosydd pynciau craidd, o'i gymharu â thua 60 y cant yn gyffredinol. Daw'r ffeithiau hynny er i'n Prif Weinidog presennol gyd-gyhoeddi 'Codi uchelgais a chyrhaeddiad addysgol plant sy'n derbyn gofal yng Nghymru: Strategaeth' yn 2016. Gellir cyflawni cynnydd drwy ystyried menter Skolfam yn Sweden a chyflwyno premiwm plant sy'n derbyn gofal.
Nawr, o ran iechyd meddwl, canfu NSPCC fod plant sy'n derbyn gofal bum gwaith yn fwy tebygol o ddioddef anhwylder iechyd meddwl o ryw fath, a naw gwaith yn fwy tebygol o gael anhwylder ymddygiadol. Ac mewn astudiaeth ddiweddar gan Brifysgol Caerdydd, dangoswyd ffeithiau gwirioneddol frawychus am bobl ifanc mewn gofal preswyl, er enghraifft: hwy sy'n sgorio leiaf o ran lles meddyliol; mae 56 y cant wedi cael eu bwlio; a gwelwyd bod canran uwch ohonynt wedi bod yn feddw ac wedi defnyddio canabis yn ystod y mis diwethaf na phlant nad ydynt mewn gofal. Nawr, er bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi addo rhagor o fuddsoddiad ar gyfer iechyd emosiynol a meddyliol pob plentyn a pherson ifanc, ni allaf anwybyddu'r ffaith ein bod ni yn y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg, yn teimlo ei fod yn aneglur. Mae angen inni wybod faint yn union sy'n cael ei dargedu at blant sy'n derbyn gofal yn benodol. Sut y caiff ei fonitro o ran ei effaith ar gyflawni argymhellion 'Cadernid meddwl'? O ran dyfodol mwy disglair, mae canfyddiadau gan y Swyddfa Archwilio Genedlaethol a Chymdeithas y Plant yn dangos bod y rhai sy'n gadael gofal yn wynebu mwy o risg o fod yn ddigartref ac o fod yn dlawd.
Fe allai ac fe ddylai Cymru sicrhau dyfodol gwell na hyn i'n plant, ac mae yna gamau y gallwn eu cymryd. Er enghraifft, unwaith eto, argymhellodd adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus y dylai pob plentyn sydd wedi cael profiad o ofal gael gwybod fel mater o drefn am eu hawl i eiriolwr a chael gwybodaeth glir ynglŷn â sut i gael gafael ar yr ystod o wasanaethau eiriolaeth sydd ar gael. Nid yw'r rhain yn ofynion mawr, ond mae angen iddynt fod ar waith. Fodd bynnag, canfu TGP Cymru yn ddiweddar mai dim ond 5 y cant i 10 y cant o gartrefi plant yn y sector preifat sydd â threfniadau eiriolaeth ymweliadau preswyl ar waith. Felly, dylem weithredu hefyd ar alwadau gan Gymdeithas y Plant i helpu i sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol Cymru yn nodi plant ifanc sy'n wladolion Ewropeaidd yn eu gofal, ac sydd wedi gadael eu gofal, fel y gellir eu cynorthwyo i sicrhau eu statws neu eu dinasyddiaeth os oes angen. Yn yr un modd, mae angen i ni gefnogi trefniadau lleoli plant. Mae'r Rhwydwaith Maethu wedi adrodd bod Cymru angen 550 o deuluoedd maeth ychwanegol i sicrhau bod plant yn cyrraedd y cartref cywir yn gyntaf. Os na lwyddwn i gyflawni hyn, bydd rhai plant yn wynebu cael eu gwahanu oddi wrth eu brodyr a'u chwiorydd eu hunain. Mae awdurdodau lleol wedi dechrau ymuno â'r her recriwtio, ond mae angen i'ch Llywodraeth wneud mwy i'w cynorthwyo.
Mae'r un peth yn wir am rieni sy'n mabwysiadu, sy'n dod â mi at fy mhwynt olaf. Mae gennyf etholwraig sydd ag un plentyn maeth ac un plentyn wedi'i fabwysiadu. Mae hi'n daer, yn angerddol, eisiau cynnwys y plentyn maeth yn y teulu a dod yn rhiant sy'n mabwysiadu. Ar ôl gofyn iddi a oedd hyn yn mynd i ddigwydd, dywedodd 'na', a'r rheswm am hynny yn syml oedd y gostyngiad sylweddol yn y cymorth a fyddai'n dilyn. Yn aml iawn, pan fydd pobl yn symud o'r model maethu i'r model mabwysiadu, rydych ar eich pen eich hun i raddau helaeth iawn, ac nid yw'n gweithio fel hynny. Dylai'r cymorth ddal i fod ar gael i rieni sy'n mabwysiadu er mwyn cadw'r teuluoedd hyn gyda'i gilydd, ac rwyf wedi ymdrin â dau achos arall lle mae brodyr a chwiorydd wedi wynebu cael eu gwahanu o bosibl oherwydd gall y gofynion cymorth sydd ynghlwm wrth fabwysiadu brodyr a chwiorydd fod yn eithaf dwys. Nid oes dyletswydd ar unrhyw un i gefnogi rhieni sy'n mabwysiadu. Felly, Ddirprwy Weinidog, rwy'n gofyn i chi edrych o ddifrif ar hyn a cheisio cael mwy o'n plant, lle bo angen, i mewn i sefyllfaoedd lle mae rhieni'n mabwysiadu.
Gall sefyllfa plant sy'n derbyn gofal yng Nghymru fod yn eithaf digalon, ond mae gennyf obaith ar gyfer y dyfodol, ac mae gennyf obaith i'r plant hyn. Gan weithio gyda'n gilydd yn drawsbleidiol yma ac mewn mannau eraill, credaf mai synnwyr cyffredin yw ein cynnig heddiw, dyma sydd ei angen, a byddai'n braf iawn pe gallai Llywodraeth Cymru gefnogi ein cynnig heddiw. Diolch.
I have selected the six amendments to the motion. I call on Siân Gwenllian to move amendment 1, tabled in her name.
Rwyf wedi dethol y chwe gwelliant i'r cynnig. Galwaf ar Siân Gwenllian i gynnig gwelliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn ei henw.
Gwelliant 1—Siân Gwenllian
Ychwanegu fel pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn cydnabod bod yna resymau cymhleth y tu ôl i lefelau cynyddol o blant mewn gofal, ond yn credu fod y disgwyliad sydd ar awdurdodau lleol i osod targedau er mwyn ateb y broblem yn ddatrysiad arwynebol.
Amendment 1—Siân Gwenllian
Add as new point at end of motion:
Recognises that there are complex reasons behind the increasing levels of children in care, but believes that the expectation on local authorities to set targets in order to address the problem is a superficial solution.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.
Amendment 1 moved.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Mae yna ofid mawr, wrth gwrs, am lefelau cynyddol o blant mewn gofal yng Nghymru, hynny i'r graddau y bu iddo fo ffurfio rhan fawr o adroddiad Thomas, sy'n edrych ar y system gyfiawnder yng Nghymru. Yn yr adroddiad yna, maen nhw'n tynnu sylw at y ffaith fod cyfradd y plant sy'n derbyn gofal yng Nghymru gryn dipyn yn uwch nag yn Lloegr a Gogledd Iwerddon, ac mi glywsom ni rai o'r ffigurau brawychus yna gan y cynigydd. Yr hyn sy'n nodedig o'r ffigurau ydy'r cynnydd sylweddol a pharhaus yn y gyfradd yng Nghymru, a'r ffaith fod y bwlch rhwng Cymru a Lloegr yn tyfu. Mae'n werthu tynnu sylw'r Senedd at asesiad ac argymhellion adroddiad Thomas ar blant mewn gofal, ac felly dwi'n pwyso ar y Llywodraeth i ymateb yn ffurfiol i'r argymhellion hynny, ac yn enwedig i roi ystyriaeth i'r camau brys a'r argymhellion tymor byr sy'n cael eu hawgrymu.
Yn ôl gweithwyr proffesiynol yn y maes, mae yna nifer o resymau am y newid sylweddol yn yr anghenion sydd yn amlygu eu hunain yn y maes yma. Does dim gwadu, yn gefndir i hyn i gyd, wrth gwrs, mae blynyddoedd o dlodi. Mae polisïau llymder—polisïau llymder gan gynigwyr y ddadl hon heddiw—yn y cefndir yna hefyd; does dim gwadu hynny. Mae newidiadau eraill hefyd, wrth gwrs. Mae newidiadau mewn cymdeithas yn rhan o'r darlun, yn ogystal â materion newydd yn dod i sylw. Er enghraifft: county lines, ymddygiad rhywiol problemus ac anaddas, defnydd o'r cyfryngau cymdeithasol, cam-drin dros y wê, ac yn y blaen. Ac yn hanesyddol, doedd rhain ddim yn ffactorau amlwg ond, wrth gwrs, maen nhw erbyn hyn.
Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gofyn i awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru i greu cynlluniau i leihau'r niferoedd sydd mewn gofal, ac mae'r cynlluniau hynny i'w croesawu. Maen nhw'n gallu rhoi ffocws i'r gwasanaethau, gan gydnabod y newidiadau sydd wedi digwydd hefyd. Ond, fel dwi wedi dweud o'r blaen, dydy targedau rhifyddol ddim yn ddull digon effeithiol i leihau niferoedd y plant mewn gofal. Fel rydym ni'n dweud yn ein gwelliant, mae targedau rhifyddol yn ddull arwynebol o geisio mynd i'r afael â'r broblem. Dwi yn credu bod yna dderbyniad o hynny erbyn hyn, a bod yna well ddealltwriaeth o hyn gan y Llywodraeth nag oedd ychydig fisoedd yn ôl, ac dwi yn croesawu hynny.
Mae angen atebion holistaidd: gwaith ataliol; mwy o arian i wasanaethau iechyd meddwl; a chael ffocws aml-asiantaethol yn ein hysgolion ni. Mae gostwng y nifer yn gofyn am atebion cynhwysfawr. Mae'n bosib bod angen newidiadau i ddeddfwriaeth. Mae'n sicr angen edrych ar y broses llysoedd, ac mae angen edrych ar sut mae kinship care yn wahanol yn yr Alban i sut mae o yng Nghymru. Mae angen edrych ar leoliadau gyda rhieni, lle mae plentyn yn byw adref efo rhieni ar orchymyn gofal ac efo cefnogaeth, ond, yn anffodus, mewn rhai ardaloedd, mae'r llysoedd yn gyndyn iawn o gytuno i hynny. Yn sicr, mae angen buddsoddiad mawr mewn gwasanaethau ataliol, a dydy grantiau tymor byr ddim yn ddigon i gynnal y gwasanaethau hynny. Felly, dwi'n croesawu'r hyn y mae'r adroddiad PAC ac adroddiad Thomas yn ei ddweud, sef bod angen gwneud gwelliannau system gyfan er mwyn darparu gwasanaethau amserol a chynnar i deuluoedd, fel eu bod nhw'n cael eu cefnogi i aros efo'i gilydd, efo'r nod yn y pen draw, wrth gwrs, i leihau nifer y plant yn y system ofal.
Cyn cloi, hoffwn i jest sôn am un mater arall y prynhawn yma. Buaswn i yn hoffi diolch i Gymdeithas y Plant am gysylltu efo rhai ohonom ni i sôn am y miloedd o blant Ewropeaidd sydd yn blant mewn gofal yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Rŵan, fe all newidiadau deddfwriaethol yn sgil gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd greu problemau i blant mewn gofal, yn enwedig wrth iddyn nhw ddod yn oedolion, gan y bydd angen i rai ohonyn nhw gael dogfennau newydd i sicrhau eu statws. Felly, hoffwn gymryd y cyfle i holi Llywodraeth Cymru. Un, a oes gennych chi syniad faint o blant yng Nghymru sydd yn disgyn i'r categori yma? Ac yn ail: beth ydych chi'n gallu ei wneud i helpu awdurdodau lleol, sef y rhieni corfforaethol, i adnabod y plant a gwneud yn siŵr fod y ceisiadau yma'n cael eu gwneud? Mae'n ofnadwy o bwysig nad ydy'r garfan yma o blant mewn gofal yn disgyn drwy'r rhwyd. Diolch.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. There is huge concern, of course, about the increasing levels of children in care in Wales, to such an extent that it formed a large part of the Thomas report, looking at the justice system. In that report, they highlight the fact that the percentage of children receiving care in Wales is quite a bit higher than in England and Northern Ireland, and we heard some of the frightening figures quoted by the individual who moved the motion. What is remarkable about the figures is the substantial and ongoing increase in that percentage in Wales, and that the gap between Wales and England is growing. It is worth drawing the Senedd's attention to the assessment and recommendations made in the Thomas report on looked-after children, and therefore I urge the Government to respond formally to those recommendations, and particularly to give consideration to the urgent steps and the short-term recommendations that are made.
According to professionals working in this area, there are a number of reasons for the substantial change in the needs that are emerging in this area.. There's no denying that, as a background to all of this, there are years of poverty. The austerity policies—the policies by those who proposed this debate—are the background to all of this. There is no denying the impact of austerity. There are other changes, of course. Changes in society certainly form part of the picture, as well as emerging issues. For example: county lines, problematic and inappropriate sexual behaviour, use of social media, online abuse, and so on and so forth. Historically, these weren't prominent factors, but of course they are now.
The Welsh Government has asked local governments across Wales to formulate plans to reduce the number of children in care, and those are to be welcomed. They could give a focus to services, recognising the changes that have emerged too. But, as I have said previously, numerical targets aren't an effective means of reducing the number of children in care. As we say in our amendment, numerical targets in and of themselves are a superficial solution in tackling this particular problem. I do think that that is now accepted, and that there is now a better understanding of that within Government than there was just a few months ago, and I do welcome that.
We need holistic solutions: preventative work; more funding for mental health services; and a multi-agency focus within our schools. Reducing numbers does require comprehensive solutions. We may need legislative changes. We certainly need to look at the courts processes, and we need to look at how kinship care is different in Scotland to the situation in Wales. We need to look at placements with parents, where the child would live at home with a parent with a care order and with support, but unfortunately, in some areas, the courts are very reticent in agreeing to that. Certainly, we need substantial investment in preventative services, and short-term grants aren't sufficient in maintaining those services. So, I do welcome what the PAC and Thomas commission reports state, namely, that we need to make whole-system improvements in order to provide timely services to families so that they are supported in staying together, with the ultimate aim of reducing the number of children in the care system.
Before I conclude, I would like to mention one other issue this afternoon. I would like to thank the Children's Society for contacting some of us to talk about the thousands of European children who are in care in the UK. Now, legislative changes in light of leaving the European Union could create problems for children in care, particularly as they become adults, as some of them will need new documentation to secure their status. So, I would like to take this opportunity to ask the Welsh Government. One, do you have any idea how many children in Wales fall into this category? And secondly, what can you do to assist local authorities, who are the corporate parents, to identify those children and to ensure that these applications are made? It's extremely important that this cohort of children receiving care don't fall through the net. Thank you.
Thank you. Can I call on Neil McEvoy to move amendments 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6, tabled in his name? Neil.
Diolch. A gaf fi alw ar Neil McEvoy i gynnig gwelliannau 2, 3, 4, 5 a 6, a gyflwynwyd yn ei enw? Neil.
Gwelliant 2—Neil McEvoy
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn credu:
a) mai llwybr cydnabyddedig da allan o ofal yw drwy gysylltiad o safon uchel rhwng plant sy’n derbyn gofal a’u rhieni;
b) na ddylai cysylltiad gael ei leihau na’i gyfyngu er cyfleuster i ddarparwyr gofal a gaiff eu talu; ac
c) gall cysylltiad cyfyngedig gadw plant mewn gofal yn hirach na sydd ei angen.
Amendment 2—Neil McEvoy
Add as new point at end of motion:
Believes that:
a) a well-recognised route out of care is via good quality contact between looked after children and their parents;
b) contact ought not to be reduced or restricted for the convenience of paid care providers; and
c) restricted contact can retain children in care for longer than necessary.
Gwelliant 3—Neil McEvoy
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn cydnabod fod pobl ifanc sy’n gadael gofal ac a ddaw’n rhieni, hefyd yn wynebu’r risg o wahaniaethu ac y gallai fod yn ddefnyddiol ailedrych ar bob achos plentyn mewn gofal i chwilio am gefndir o wahaniaethu yn erbyn rhieni a oedd yn cyfrannu at gadw eu plentyn mewn gofal.
Amendment 3—Neil McEvoy
Add as new point at end of motion:
Recognises that care leavers who become parents are also at risk of discrimination and that all looked after children's cases might usefully be revisited to check for any history of discrimination against parents that contributed to their child remaining looked after.
Gwelliant 4—Neil McEvoy
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn cydnabod y dylai’r ysgogiad elw gael ei ddileu o’r maes gofal plant ac nad cwmnïau preifat yw’r dewis gorau i wasanaethu buddiannau plant Cymru yn y dyfodol.
Amendment 4—Neil McEvoy
Add as new point at end of motion:
Recognises that the profit motive should be taken out of children's care and that private companies are not best placed to serve the interests of children in Wales going forward.
Gwelliant 5—Neil McEvoy
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn mynnu bod plant sy’n gwneud honiadau ynghylch camdrin mewn gofal yn cael eu cymryd o ddifrif ac y cânt eiriolwr, a bod arbenigwr diogelu plant yn siarad â nhw mewn lle diogel er mwyn trafod yr hyn â godwyd.
Amendment 5—Neil McEvoy
Add as new point at end of motion:
Demands that children who allege abuse in care are taken seriously and that they are provided with an advocate, spoken to by a child protection specialist in a place of safety in order to go through the issues they have raised.
Gwelliant 6—Neil McEvoy
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn cydnabod fod ymchwiliadau o gwynion yn gwadu ffeithiau mewn adroddiadau asesu a derbyn mewn cysylltiad â phlant sy’n derbyn gofal, fod yn gyfan gwbl annibynnol a heb i’r cyngor sir y mae’r achwynwr yn cwyno amdano fod yn talu amdanynt.
Amendment 6—Neil McEvoy
Add as new point at end of motion:
Recognises that investigations of complaints disputing facts in intake and assessment reports in relation to looked after children need to be totally independent and not paid for by the county council about whom the complainant is complaining.
Cynigiwyd gwelliannau 2, 3, 4, 5 a 6.
Amendments 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 moved.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. This is probably—well, not probably—the most significant area of concern for me over the last, probably, two to three years. The Chamber may not know that I employed a very experienced social worker because of the amount of cases that I was getting in terms of looked-after children especially.
Amendment 2 is very straightforward. It says that a well-recognised route out of care is via good quality contact between looked-after children and their parents. It's very straightforward. It says that contact ought not to be reduced or restricted for the convenience of paid care providers and that restricted contact can retain children in care for longer than necessary. Now, I understand that not everybody in the Chamber is going to support this amendment—I find that very surprising. Because what is happening is that contact is being restricted between children who want to see their parents and parents, because of the private—very often—care providers. So, it's not in the best interests of the child; it's in the best interests of a private company. So, I would ask everybody to support amendment 2 there.
Amendment 3: it recognises that care leavers who become parents are also at risk of discrimination and that all looked-after children's cases might usefully be revisited—it's a key point—to check if there's any history of discrimination against parents that contributed to the children remaining looked after. I've got a number of people in my mind here—a number of mothers in particular—who I think have been treated disgracefully, to be perfectly frank. What you see here, as well, is basic class discrimination. What this amendment asks is that these cases are looked at in light of recognition of discrimination that could actually be happening. And my view is that it certainly is happening, because I think when you've—[Interruption.] Yes.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae'n debyg fod hyn—wel, nid mae'n debyg—hwn yw'r maes rwyf wedi ymwneud fwyaf ag ef dros y ddwy neu dair blynedd ddiwethaf. Efallai nad yw'r Siambr yn gwybod imi gyflogi gweithiwr cymdeithasol profiadol iawn oherwydd nifer yr achosion roeddwn yn eu cael mewn perthynas â phlant sy'n derbyn gofal yn enwedig.
Mae gwelliant 2 yn syml iawn. Mae'n dweud mai llwybr cydnabyddedig da allan o ofal yw drwy gysylltiad o safon uchel rhwng plant sy'n derbyn gofal a'u rhieni. Mae'n syml iawn. Mae'n dweud na ddylai cysylltiad gael ei leihau na'i gyfyngu er cyfleuster i ddarparwyr gofal a gaiff eu talu ac y gall cysylltiad cyfyngedig gadw plant mewn gofal yn hirach na sydd ei angen. Nawr, rwy'n deall nad yw pawb yn y Siambr yn mynd i gefnogi'r gwelliant hwn—mae hynny'n peri cryn syndod i mi. Oherwydd yr hyn sy'n digwydd yw bod cysylltiad yn cael ei gyfyngu rhwng plant sydd am weld eu rhieni a'u rhieni, oherwydd y darparwyr gofal, a darparwyr gofal y sector preifat yn aml iawn. Felly, nid yw er budd gorau'r plentyn; mae er budd gorau cwmni preifat. Felly, hoffwn ofyn i bawb gefnogi gwelliant 2.
Gwelliant 3: mae'n cydnabod bod y rhai sy'n gadael gofal ac a ddaw'n rhieni hefyd yn wynebu'r risg o wahaniaethu ac y gallai fod yn ddefnyddiol ailedrych ar bob achos plentyn mewn gofal—mae'n bwynt allweddol—i weld a oes unrhyw hanes o wahaniaethu yn erbyn rhieni a oedd yn cyfrannu at gadw eu plentyn mewn gofal. Mae gennyf nifer o bobl yn fy meddwl yma—nifer o famau yn enwedig—sydd, yn fy marn i, wedi cael eu trin yn warthus, yn berffaith onest. Yr hyn a welwch yma hefyd yw gwahaniaethu sylfaenol ar sail dosbarth. Mae'r gwelliant hwn yn gofyn inni edrych ar yr achosion hyn er mwyn nodi'r gwahaniaethu a allai fod yn digwydd. Ac yn fy marn i, mae'n sicr yn digwydd, oherwydd pan fyddwch—[Torri ar draws.] Iawn.
I note your amendment with alarm, I have to say, and I won't be supporting it, because first of all, I can't see that you've presented any proof whatsoever to say that (b) is a valid amendment. And also, my experience of what people—having spoken to children in care and taken cases, very often, that contact is removed because it's best for the welfare of that child; it's never removed otherwise.
Rwy'n nodi eich gwelliant gyda braw, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, ac ni fyddaf yn ei gefnogi, oherwydd yn gyntaf oll, ni allaf weld eich bod wedi cyflwyno unrhyw brawf o gwbl i ddweud bod (b) yn welliant dilys. A hefyd, fy mhrofiad i o'r hyn y mae pobl—ar ôl siarad â phlant mewn gofal a chymryd achosion, yn aml iawn, mae'r cysylltiad yn cael ei dorri oherwydd mai dyna sydd orau er lles y plentyn; nid yw byth yn cael ei dorri fel arall.
I'd say, with respect, that you're wrong, and I can see nothing wrong with saying that contact should not be restricted by an agency, especially when children want contact with their parents.
The amendment you didn't speak of there is the justice angle. What is wrong with reviewing cases where there could have been discrimination? The case I'm thinking of where contact has been restricted is because the parents are complaining, and the child is complaining of abuse in care. That's another amendment—we'll come to that now.
This may be controversial for some; it's not for me. The profit motive should be taken out of children's care, and I agree 100 per cent with the Children's Commissioner for Wales, and I hope everybody supports that amendment. Because people are literally becoming millionaires on the basis of—. The huge amount of money that is charged to local government—£300,000, £0.5 million, depending on a child's needs.
Amendment 5, and I hope that nobody opposes this amendment. This demands—and that's the right word to use—that children who allege abuse in care are taken seriously; that they are provided with an advocate; and they are spoken to by a child protection specialist, in a place of safety in order to go through the issues that are raised. Now, if there's anyone out there not supporting this, then they need a damn good reason, because I'm telling you that this is happening. And if anybody thinks it's not happening, come into my office and you can speak to parents and you can see the records.
Amendment 6 deals with the complaints process, and the Welsh National Party believes in individual sovereignty, enabling people to have control over their own lives. If you have complaints in about children's services—intake and assessment, in this case—the person who does the investigating is paid for by the council. They're called independent, but they're not because they're paid for by the council that they're supposed to be investigating. What generally happens is that the complaints do not receive the amount of attention that they should do.
I just want to turn very briefly to point 2. If we're serious about getting children out of care—and a colleague over there just spoke against this—good-quality contact is necessary between the parents and the children. And what this says here—. It's not a question of you saying you don't believe this is happening, but where contact is being restricted, for the convenience of a private company, what this amendment says is that that should not be happening. What we have here in Wales—I'll finish now, Dirprwy Llywydd—is a system where children's rights are routinely ignored. What I'm coming across in my casework, one particular case, is an abuse of human rights. We all come in here week in, week out, we say the same old things—most I agree with, to be frank—but there are really concrete cases that need addressing. And I won't be supporting Plaid's amendment because I think action should be taken, and I can see no other alternative, at the moment, other than what the Minister is trying to do via targets. Diolch yn fawr.
Gyda phob parch, buaswn yn dweud eich bod yn anghywir, ac ni allaf weld dim o'i le ar ddweud na ddylai asiantaeth gyfyngu ar gysylltiad, yn enwedig pan fydd plant am gael cysylltiad â'u rhieni.
Y gwelliant na wnaethoch siarad amdano yn y fan honno yw'r ongl cyfiawnder. Beth sydd o'i le ar adolygu achosion lle gallai fod gwahaniaethu'n digwydd? Mae'r achos rwy'n meddwl amdano lle mae cysylltiad wedi'i gyfyngu yn deillio o fod y rhieni'n cwyno, a bod y plentyn yn cwyno am gam-drin mewn gofal. Mae hwnnw'n welliant arall—fe ddown at hwnnw yn awr.
Gall hyn fod yn ddadleuol i rai; nid yw'n ddadleuol i mi. Dylai'r ysgogiad i wneud elw gael ei ddileu o ofal plant, a chytunaf 100 y cant â Chomisiynydd Plant Cymru, a gobeithio bod pawb yn cefnogi'r gwelliant hwnnw. Gan fod pobl yn llythrennol yn dod yn filiwnyddion ar sail—. Y swm enfawr o arian a godir ar lywodraeth leol—£300,000, £0.5 miliwn, yn dibynnu ar anghenion y plentyn.
Gwelliant 5, a gobeithio na fydd neb yn gwrthwynebu'r gwelliant hwn. Mae'n mynnu—a dyna'r gair cywir i'w ddefnyddio—fod plant sy'n honni eu bod yn cael eu cam-drin yn cael eu cymryd o ddifrif; y darperir eiriolwr ar eu cyfer; a bod arbenigwr ar amddiffyn plant yn siarad â hwy mewn man diogel er mwyn mynd drwy'r materion a godir. Nawr, os oes unrhyw un allan yno nad yw'n cefnogi hyn, mae angen rheswm da iawn arnynt, oherwydd rwy'n dweud wrthych fod hyn yn digwydd. Ac os oes unrhyw un sy'n credu nad yw'n digwydd, dewch i fy swyddfa a gallwch siarad â rhieni a gallwch weld y cofnodion.
Mae gwelliant 6 yn ymwneud â'r broses gwyno, ac mae Welsh National Party yn credu mewn sofraniaeth i'r unigolyn, i alluogi pobl i gael rheolaeth dros eu bywydau eu hunain. Os oes gennych gwynion ynglŷn â gwasanaethau plant—y nifer sy'n cael eu derbyn a'u hasesu, yn yr achos hwn—y cyngor sy'n talu am y person sy'n cynnal yr ymchwiliad. Cânt eu galw'n annibynnol, ond nid ydynt yn annibynnol am eu bod yn cael eu talu gan y cyngor sydd i fod yn destun i'w hymchwiliad. Yr hyn sy'n digwydd yn gyffredinol yw nad yw'r cwynion yn cael cymaint o sylw ag y dylent.
Hoffwn droi'n fyr iawn at bwynt 2. Os ydym o ddifrif ynglŷn â chael plant allan o ofal—ac mae cyd-Aelod yn y fan acw newydd siarad yn erbyn hyn—mae angen cysylltiad o ansawdd da rhwng y rhieni a'r plant. A beth y mae hyn yn ei ddweud yma—. Nid yw'n fater ohonoch chi'n dweud nad ydych yn credu bod hyn yn digwydd, ond lle cyfyngir ar gysylltiad er cyfleustra cwmni preifat, mae'r gwelliant hwn yn dweud na ddylai hynny ddigwydd. Yr hyn sydd gennym yma yng Nghymru—fe ddof i ben yn awr, Ddirprwy Lywydd—yw system lle mae hawliau plant yn cael eu hanwybyddu fel mater o drefn. Yr hyn a welaf yn fy ngwaith achos, un achos penodol, yw tramgwydd yn erbyn hawliau dynol. Daw pawb yma o wythnos i wythnos, dywedwn yr un hen bethau—ac rwy'n cytuno â'r rhan fwyaf, a bod yn onest—ond ceir achosion go iawn y mae'n rhaid mynd i'r afael â hwy. Ac ni fyddaf yn cefnogi gwelliant Plaid Cymru oherwydd fy mod yn credu y dylid rhoi camau ar waith, ac ni allaf weld unrhyw ddewis arall ar hyn o bryd ar wahân i'r hyn y mae'r Gweinidog yn ceisio'i wneud drwy gyfrwng targedau. Diolch yn fawr.
Wales has some of the highest rates of looked-after children in the United Kingdom. More than 6,800 children aged up to 18 years old are currently looked after by local authorities in Wales. It is a stark fact that over the last 15 years, the number of looked-after children has risen by 34 per cent. The figure is far higher than in England or Northern Ireland. By the end of March 2019, Wales had 109 looked-after children per 10,000 people. This compares, on the latest figures available, to 65 per 10,000 in England and 71 per 10,000 in Northern Ireland. The Commission on Justice in Wales commented on this last year and said,
'What is striking is the marked and continual increase in the rate in Wales and the widening gap with England.'
Another aspect of this issue is that the rate varies wildly between local authorities. In Carmarthenshire, figures show that there are 49 looked-after children per 10,000 people. In Torfaen, the figure is 216. Studies show that there is a clear social gradient where children in the 10 per cent most deprived areas were found to be 16 times more likely to be subject to child welfare interventions than those in the 10 per cent least deprived areas.
The Wales Centre for Public Policy concluded that there were four main contributing factors to the number of children in care. One of the factors identified is deprivation. This is important because outcomes for young people in care are generally poor—poorer than those for children outside the care system.
Educational outcomes are also of particular concern. Just 59 per cent of looked-after children achieve the core subject indicator of key stage 2, compared to a Wales average of nearly 88 per cent. At key stage 4, fewer than 11 per cent achieve the core subject indicator, compared to an overall figure of roughly 60 per cent. Those Welsh young people who have left care—23 per cent have no qualification whatsoever.
Estyn's chief inspector has also noted that the poverty gap has not narrowed. Differences in attainment and attendance between pupils from advantaged and disadvantaged backgrounds have not closed over the last decade. We need to break this cycle of deprivation as a matter of urgency, Presiding Officer. Over the last 10 years, the Welsh Government has implemented numerous programmes to prevent children entering the care system. The Flying Start scheme targeted children up to the age of four at a cost of more than £690 million since 2006 and £290 million was spent on Families First since 2012. Neither of these programmes have managed to stem the increase in looked-after children. The budget for 2020-21 has proposed extra resources to address this problem. It allocates £2.3 million from extra health funding into the adoption service, as well as £900,000 on exploratory work on an integrated approach to supporting looked-after children in education.
While this is a good start, we believe that the Welsh Government needs to go further to support those children in care. We would introduce a looked-after children pupil premium to support—[Interruption.]—to support the children who are already facing huge gaps in educational attainment. Presiding Officer—[Interruption.] If you want to ask something, Kirsty, you're very welcome.
Deputy Presiding Officer, looked-after children and care leavers are amongst the most vulnerable in our society. I call on the Welsh Government to ensure that looked-after children have the same life chances as those who have not suffered adverse childhood experiences. We all have children. Children need safe, healthy—to have an opportunity in their future lives, so that they become law-abiding citizens of the country. That not only creates the best society, but it also creates the best economy. We all are working towards it. I hope that this Government listens and makes sure that our children are looked after properly by everybody who cares for them. Thank you.
Mae gan Gymru rai o'r cyfraddau uchaf o blant sy'n derbyn gofal yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae dros 6,800 o blant hyd at 18 mlwydd oed yn derbyn gofal gan awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd. Mae'n ffaith ofnadwy fod nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal wedi codi 34 y cant dros y 15 mlynedd diwethaf. Mae'r ffigur yn llawer uwch nag yn Lloegr neu Ogledd Iwerddon. Erbyn diwedd mis Mawrth 2019, roedd gan Gymru 109 o blant yn derbyn gofal ym mhob 10,000 o bobl. Mae hyn yn cymharu, ar y ffigurau diweddaraf sydd ar gael, i 65 ym mhob 10,000 yn Lloegr a 71 ym mhob 10,000 yng Ngogledd Iwerddon. Gwnaeth y Comisiwn ar Gyfiawnder yng Nghymru sylwadau ar hyn y llynedd a dywedodd,
'Yr hyn sy'n nodedig yw'r cynnydd sylweddol a pharhaus yn y gyfradd yng Nghymru a'r ffaith bod y bwlch rhwng Cymru a Lloegr yn tyfu.'
Agwedd arall ar y mater hwn yw bod y gyfradd yn amrywio'n helaeth rhwng awdurdodau lleol. Yn Sir Gaerfyrddin, mae'r ffigurau'n dangos bod 49 o blant yn derbyn gofal ym mhob 10,000 o bobl. Yn Nhorfaen, 216 yw'r ffigur. Dengys astudiaethau fod graddiant cymdeithasol amlwg yn bodoli lle canfuwyd bod plant yn y 10 y cant o ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig 16 gwaith yn fwy tebygol o fod yn destun ymyriadau lles plant na'r rhai yn y 10 y cant o ardaloedd lleiaf difreintiedig.
Daeth Canolfan Polisi Cyhoeddus Cymru i'r casgliad fod pedwar prif ffactor yn cyfrannu at nifer y plant mewn gofal. Un o'r ffactorau a nodwyd yw amddifadedd. Mae hyn yn bwysig gan fod canlyniadau i bobl ifanc mewn gofal yn wael yn gyffredinol—yn waeth na'r canlyniadau i blant y tu allan i'r system ofal.
Mae canlyniadau addysgol hefyd yn peri pryder arbennig. Dim ond 59 y cant o'r plant sy'n derbyn gofal sy'n cyflawni dangosydd pynciau craidd cyfnod allweddol 2, o'i gymharu â chyfartaledd Cymru o bron i 88 y cant. Yng nghyfnod allweddol 4, mae llai nag 11 y cant yn cyflawni'r dangosydd pynciau craidd, o'i gymharu â ffigur cyffredinol o tua 60 y cant. O'r Cymry ifanc sydd wedi gadael gofal, nid oes gan 23 y cant ohonynt unrhyw gymhwyster o gwbl.
Mae prif arolygydd Estyn hefyd wedi nodi nad yw'r bwlch tlodi wedi lleihau. Nid yw gwahaniaethau o ran cyrhaeddiad a phresenoldeb rhwng disgyblion o gefndiroedd breintiedig a difreintiedig wedi cau dros y degawd diwethaf. Mae angen inni dorri'r cylch amddifadedd hwn fel mater o frys, Lywydd. Dros y 10 mlynedd diwethaf, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi rhoi nifer o raglenni ar waith i atal plant rhag mynd i mewn i'r system ofal. Targedai cynllun Dechrau'n Deg blant hyd at bedair oed am gost o fwy na £690 miliwn ers 2006 a gwariwyd £290 miliwn ar Teuluoedd yn Gyntaf ers 2012. Nid oes yr un o'r rhaglenni hyn wedi llwyddo i atal y cynnydd yn nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal. Mae'r gyllideb ar gyfer 2020-21 wedi argymell adnoddau ychwanegol i fynd i'r afael â'r broblem. Mae'n dyrannu £2.3 miliwn o gyllid iechyd ychwanegol i'r gwasanaeth mabwysiadu, yn ogystal â £900,000 ar waith archwilio ar ddull integredig o gefnogi plant sy'n derbyn gofal mewn addysg.
Er ei fod yn ddechrau da, credwn fod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru fynd ymhellach i gefnogi plant mewn gofal. Byddem yn cyflwyno premiwm disgyblion ar gyfer plant sy'n derbyn gofal i gefnogi—[Torri ar draws.]—i gefnogi'r plant sydd eisoes yn wynebu bylchau enfawr yn eu cyrhaeddiad addysgol. Lywydd—[Torri ar draws.] Os ydych chi eisiau gofyn rhywbeth, Kirsty, mae croeso i chi wneud hynny.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae plant sy'n derbyn gofal a'r rhai sy'n gadael gofal ymhlith y rhai mwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas. Galwaf ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod plant sy'n derbyn gofal yn cael yr un cyfleoedd mewn bywyd â'r rhai nad ydynt wedi cael profiadau niweidiol yn ystod plentyndod. Mae gennym ni i gyd blant. Mae plant angen cyfle diogel ac iach—cyfle yn eu bywydau yn y dyfodol, i ddod yn ddinasyddion y wlad hon sy'n parchu'r gyfraith. Dyna sy'n creu'r gymdeithas orau, a dyna sy'n creu'r economi orau hefyd. Rydym i gyd yn gweithio tuag at hynny. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y Llywodraeth yn gwrando ac yn sicrhau bod ein plant yn cael gofal priodol gan bawb sy'n gofalu amdanynt. Diolch.
I want to start my contribution by acknowledging that there is a strong cross-party consensus in Wales that we all have a collective responsibility to ensure that care-experienced children are provided with the best care and support available. Last week, Deputy Presiding Officer, I asked the Brexit Minister, Jeremy Miles AM, a question about the European Union settlement scheme. It is an area of interest that I would like to follow up today.
The Welsh Government has allocated £224,000 to the Welsh local authorities to support European Union citizens applying to the EU settlement scheme. The proportion of that funding to Caerphilly County Borough Council is £9,500, based on an estimate of 3,000 EU citizens in that local authority. So, today, I have written to the council to ascertain how many of the 435 care-experienced children are European Union citizens, and what the authority is doing to ensure that their status within the United Kingdom is safeguarded. So, I would be keen to further my understanding—if the Minister can—as to what actions the Welsh Government is undertaking to support and ensure that local authorities such as Caerphilly identify children who are eligible for the European Union settlement scheme.
Statistics show, as has been stated, that the number of children in care in Wales is continuing to increase, as is the case across the United Kingdom. Over the past 15 years, the number of care-experienced children in Wales has risen by 34 per cent, and this is a fact that should cause us all a moment to pause. There are a number of factors, though, that are driving this trend, including poverty, deprivation, and the very real impacts of austerity and welfare changes. We cannot ignore that. The introduction of the bedroom tax, benefit cuts and freezes, and the reduction on universal credit rates in particular, have hit the poorest families in Wales the hardest. We know that money issues are the biggest driver of family break-up, mental health deterioration and a drive to substance abuse. So, I'm heartened that the Government here has made this issue a priority.
I welcome the fact that the Welsh Government has invested an additional £9 million a year to expand the support for care-experienced children since 2017. This funding has meant that edge-of-care services are now in place in every local authority in Wales. It has led to the establishment of the groundbreaking St David's Day fund, which has supported almost 2,000 care leavers in their transition to adulthood. And it has provided for the roll-out of the Reflect programme throughout Wales, which supports young parents whose children have been placed in the care system. We know that this is important. A further £15 million is being invested over the next two years via the integrated care fund to expand preventative and early intervention services. This will help ensure that families receive seamless family-centred services that help support them to stay together.
These are practical support-based initiatives that work. We all need to ensure that care-experienced children are provided with the best care and support available to allow them to flourish in a safe environment and enjoy the same opportunities as any other child would expect. We are all corporate parents in this Chamber with this lens. To that end, we must acknowledge, surely, that this era of UK Government policy of austerity is damaging to the opportunities and life chances of the very poorest and most vulnerable children throughout Wales and the UK.
Rwyf am ddechrau fy nghyfraniad drwy gydnabod bod consensws trawsbleidiol cryf yng Nghymru fod gan bob un ohonom gyfrifoldeb ar y cyd i sicrhau bod plant sy'n derbyn gofal yn cael y gofal a'r cymorth gorau sydd ar gael. Yr wythnos diwethaf, Ddirprwy Lywydd, gofynnais gwestiwn i'r Gweinidog Brexit, Jeremy Miles AC, am y cynllun preswylio'n sefydlog i ddinasyddion yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Mae'n faes diddordeb yr hoffwn fynd ar ei drywydd heddiw.
Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi dyrannu £224,000 i awdurdodau lleol Cymru i gynorthwyo dinasyddion yr Undeb Ewropeaidd sy'n gwneud cais i'r cynllun preswylio'n sefydlog i ddinasyddion yr UE. Y gyfran o'r cyllid hwnnw sy'n mynd i Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili yw £9,500, yn seiliedig ar amcangyfrif o 3,000 o ddinasyddion yr UE yn yr awdurdod lleol hwnnw. Felly, heddiw, rwyf wedi ysgrifennu at y cyngor i ganfod faint o'r 435 o blant sydd wedi cael profiad o ofal sy'n ddinasyddion yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, a beth y mae'r awdurdod yn ei wneud i sicrhau bod eu statws o fewn y Deyrnas Unedig yn cael ei ddiogelu. Felly, hoffwn ehangu fy nealltwriaeth—os gall y Gweinidog fy helpu—ynglŷn â pha gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i gefnogi a sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol fel Caerffili yn nodi pa blant sy'n gymwys ar gyfer y cynllun preswylio'n sefydlog i ddinasyddion yr Undeb Ewropeaidd.
Mae ystadegau'n dangos, fel y dywedwyd, fod nifer y plant mewn gofal yng Nghymru yn dal i gynyddu, fel sy'n wir ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig. Dros y 15 mlynedd diwethaf, mae nifer y plant sy'n cael profiad o ofal yng Nghymru wedi codi 34 y cant, ac mae hon yn ffaith a ddylai beri i bawb ohonom oedi i feddwl. Fodd bynnag, mae nifer o ffactorau'n cymell y duedd hon, gan gynnwys tlodi, amddifadedd, ac effeithiau gwirioneddol cyni a newidiadau i'r system les. Ni allwn anwybyddu hynny. Mae cyflwyno'r dreth ystafell wely, toriadau i fudd-daliadau a rhewi budd-daliadau, a'r gostyngiad yng nghyfraddau credyd cynhwysol yn enwedig, wedi taro'r teuluoedd tlotaf yng Nghymru yn galetach na neb. Gwyddom mai materion ariannol yw'r sbardun mwyaf i chwalu teuluoedd, dirywiad iechyd meddwl a'r ysgogiad i gamddefnyddio sylweddau. Felly, rwy'n falch fod y Llywodraeth yma wedi gwneud y mater hwn yn flaenoriaeth.
Rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi buddsoddi £9 miliwn y flwyddyn yn ychwanegol i ehangu'r cymorth ar gyfer plant sydd wedi cael profiad o ofal ers 2017. Mae'r arian hwn wedi golygu bod gwasanaethau ar ffiniau gofal bellach ar gael ym mhob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru. Mae wedi arwain at sefydlu cronfa Dydd Gŵyl Dewi sy'n torri tir newydd, ac sydd wedi cefnogi bron 2,000 o bobl ifanc sy'n gadael gofal wrth iddynt bontio i fywyd fel oedolion. Ac mae wedi darparu ar gyfer cyflwyno'r rhaglen Reflect ledled Cymru, sy'n cefnogi rhieni ifanc y mae eu plant wedi cael eu rhoi yn y system ofal. Gwyddom fod hyn yn bwysig. Buddsoddir £15 miliwn arall dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf drwy'r gronfa gofal integredig i ehangu gwasanaethau ataliol ac ymyrraeth gynnar. Bydd hyn yn helpu i sicrhau bod teuluoedd yn cael gwasanaethau di-dor sy'n canolbwyntio ar y teulu ac yn eu cynorthwyo i aros gyda'i gilydd.
Mae'r rhain yn fentrau ymarferol, seiliedig ar gymorth sy'n gweithio. Mae angen i bob un ohonom sicrhau bod plant sy'n derbyn gofal yn cael y gofal a'r cymorth gorau sydd ar gael i'w galluogi i ffynnu mewn amgylchedd diogel a mwynhau'r un cyfleoedd ag y byddai unrhyw blentyn arall yn ei ddisgwyl. Mae pawb ohonom yn y Siambr yn rhieni corfforaethol yn yr ystyr hon. I'r perwyl hwnnw, rhaid inni gydnabod, does bosibl, fod yr oes hon o bolisi cyni Llywodraeth y DU yn niweidio cyfleoedd bywyd y plant tlotaf a mwyaf agored i niwed yng Nghymru a'r DU.
I thank the Welsh Conservatives for tabling this important debate. Sadly, the number of children taken into care has doubled in the past 20 years. And, while the needs and safety of the child must always be the only priority, we must do all that we can to reduce the number of children taken into care. Because, as the Welsh Conservatives' motion rightly points out, the life chances of looked-after children and care leavers are significantly poorer than those of children who are not in care.
I also agree with Plaid Cymru that setting superficial targets is not the answer. We have to take strong positive steps to prevent children being taken into care in the first place; take steps to ensure that we have a well-resourced and supported foster care network for short-term care needs; and make adoption much easier for adoptive parents.
And I'd like to comment on the opening speech of Janet Finch-Saunders, where she said about the transition from a foster parent into adopting. I can relate to that through a constituent who told me of his experience. They had one biological child and wanted another. It wasn't possible, so they adopted another little child, for company as well as being much loved. The little child showed signs of mental health issues early on, but the support network wasn't there, and to this day, the family of this little girl have struggled, really, to cope. So, because help was not forthcoming in the very early stages, the whole family now has been traumatised because the deterioration of the mental health has impacted on the life of the family, and it is an ongoing—
Diolch i'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig am gyflwyno'r ddadl bwysig hon. Yn anffodus, mae nifer y plant sy'n cael eu rhoi mewn gofal wedi dyblu yn yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf. Ac er bod yn rhaid i anghenion a diogelwch y plentyn fod yn unig flaenoriaeth bob amser, rhaid inni wneud popeth a allwn i leihau nifer y plant sy'n cael eu rhoi mewn gofal. Oherwydd, fel y mae cynnig y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn ei nodi'n gywir, mae cyfleoedd bywyd plant sy'n derbyn gofal a'r rhai sy'n gadael gofal yn sylweddol waeth na chyfleoedd bywyd plant nad ydynt mewn gofal.
Rwyf hefyd yn cytuno â Phlaid Cymru nad gosod targedau arwynebol yw'r ateb. Mae'n rhaid inni roi camau cadarnhaol cryf ar waith i atal plant rhag cael eu rhoi mewn gofal yn y lle cyntaf; rhoi camau ar waith i sicrhau bod gennym rwydwaith gofal maeth â chymorth da ac sydd â'r adnoddau priodol ar gyfer anghenion gofal tymor byr; a gwneud mabwysiadu'n llawer haws i rieni sy'n mabwysiadu.
A hoffwn wneud sylwadau ar araith agoriadol Janet Finch-Saunders, lle dywedodd am y newid o fod yn rhiant maeth i fabwysiadu. Gallaf uniaethu â hynny drwy etholwr a ddywedodd wrthyf am eu profiad hwy. Roedd ganddynt un plentyn biolegol ac roeddent yn awyddus i gael plentyn arall. Nid oedd yn bosibl, felly fe wnaethant fabwysiadu plentyn bach arall, yn gwmni yn ogystal ag i'w garu'n fawr. Dangosodd y plentyn bach arwyddion fod ganddi broblemau iechyd meddwl yn gynnar, ond nid oedd y rhwydwaith cymorth yno, a hyd heddiw, mae teulu'r ferch fach wedi ei chael hi'n anodd ymdopi mewn gwirionedd. Felly, gan nad oedd cymorth ar gael yn ystod y camau cynnar iawn, mae'r teulu cyfan bellach wedi dioddef trawma oherwydd bod dirywiad yn iechyd meddwl y plentyn wedi effeithio ar fywyd y teulu, ac mae'n parhau—
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
Yes, certainly.
Gwnaf, yn sicr.
I appreciate your intervention, Caroline Jones, and I take your point, and I just want to add that, actually, the other thing that happens is that a looked-after child is finally adopted, that support disappears, and then it leads to complete adoption breakdown. I know in my own constituency I have dealt with complete adoption breakdowns at least half a dozen times, and they are truly heartbreaking for all of the people involved.
Rwy'n gwerthfawrogi eich ymyriad, Caroline Jones, ac rwy'n derbyn eich pwynt, a hoffwn ychwanegu'n syml mai'r peth arall sy'n digwydd mewn gwirionedd yw bod plentyn sy'n derbyn gofal yn cael ei fabwysiadu yn y pen draw, mae'r cymorth hwnnw'n diflannu, ac mae'n arwain wedyn at chwalu'r trefniadau mabwysiadu'n llwyr. Gwn yn fy etholaeth fy hun fy mod wedi ymdrin â threfniadau mabwysiadu sydd wedi chwalu o leiaf hanner dwsin o weithiau, ac maent yn wirioneddol dorcalonnus i'r holl bobl sy'n gysylltiedig.
Thank you, Angela. It's totally disrupted the whole family's life, you know?
So, as we take steps to improve the life chances of those in long-term care, whether that is in a care home or with a foster family, the Commission on Justice in Wales stated that children’s interests are being neglected in the family courts and were concerned at the very high numbers of children being taken into care. So, whilst I don't always agree that devolution of justice is the answer, the Welsh and UK Governments, I believe, must work together to understand why we have such a high number of children being placed in care, and take action to ensure that Wales doesn't become the UK nation with the highest proportion of children in care. Aside from tackling—
Diolch, Angela. Mae'n amharu'n llwyr ar fywyd y teulu cyfan.
Felly, wrth inni roi camau ar waith i wella cyfleoedd bywyd y rhai sydd mewn gofal hirdymor, boed mewn cartref gofal neu gyda theulu maeth, dywedodd y Comisiwn ar gyfiawnder yng Nghymru fod buddiannau plant yn cael eu hesgeuluso yn y llysoedd teulu a'u bod yn pryderu ynglŷn â'r niferoedd uchel iawn o blant sy'n cael eu rhoi mewn gofal. Felly, er nad wyf bob amser yn cytuno mai datganoli cyfiawnder yw'r ateb, credaf fod rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU weithio gyda'i gilydd i ddeall pam y mae gennym nifer mor uchel o blant yn cael eu rhoi mewn gofal, a rhoi camau ar waith i sicrhau nad Cymru yw'r wlad yn y DU sydd â'r gyfran uchaf o blant mewn gofal. Ar wahân i fynd i'r afael â—
Will you take an intervention? Very briefly. Would you acknowledge that children who are placed into a care-experienced child's situation, they are not in that position lightly, and that there is a whole process that is undergone, and it is the last possible part of that process before a child is taken into care?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad? Yn fyr iawn. A fyddech yn cydnabod bod plant sy'n cael eu rhoi mewn sefyllfa lle mae plentyn yn cael profiad o ofal, nad ydynt yn cael eu rhoi yn y sefyllfa honno'n ddifeddwl, a bod proses gyfan wedi ei dilyn, ac mai dyna'r rhan olaf bosibl o'r broses honno cyn i blentyn gael ei roi mewn gofal?
Well, sometimes it's a last resort, but what I was saying is, I think that more prevention is needed to ensure that children are not taken into care in the first place. And I don't think that support network is there. So, I agree with you—sometimes, but not totally, Rhianon. Thank you.
So, where was I? I'd said that the Welsh Government and the UK Government must work together to understand why we have such high numbers of children being placed into care, and take action to ensure that Wales doesn't become the UK nation with the highest proportion of children in care.
So, aside from tackling the rise of children being taken into care, the Welsh Government must do so much more to improve the outcomes for looked-after children. We have to break the cycle of a poor start in life leading to poor life chances. There is some fantastic work being done across Wales, but due to pressures in manpower and finances, these are the exception rather than the norm. We all know that prevention is better than a cure, we have to do everything we can to ensure that these adverse childhood experiences do not stop children in care becoming healthy, active and productive adults. We know only too well that children in care are less likely to achieve good educational qualifications, have greater health issues, well-being and housing needs as adults, and have a greater risk of becoming substance misusers. By investing in mitigating these risks, not only do we improve the outcomes for the individual, we improve our society as a whole.
As I said earlier, there are excellent examples of great work being done, and I would like to highlight, once again, the work of Roots Foundation Wales in my region. They are a volunteer-led charity based in Swansea, which aims to support young people in care, care leavers, children in need and adults who have left care with a transition period of independent living. They very successfully help young people transition to life outside the care system and they teach the skills needed for independent living—skills that most of us learn from parents, but that, sadly, due to a whole range of pressures, children in care do not sometimes gain. What Roots Foundation Wales do should be par for the course and charities such as these shouldn’t need to exist, but I and the hundreds of children they have supported are glad they do. However, we owe it to the nearly 7,000 children in care to do so much more. I urge Members to support this motion.
Wel, weithiau mae'n ddewis olaf, ond yr hyn roeddwn yn ei ddweud oedd, rwy'n credu bod angen mwy o waith atal er mwyn sicrhau nad yw plant yn cael eu rhoi mewn gofal yn y lle cyntaf. Ac nid wyf yn credu bod y rhwydwaith cymorth yno. Felly, rwy'n cytuno â chi—weithiau, ond nid yn gyfan gwbl, Rhianon. Diolch.
Felly, ble roeddwn i? Roeddwn wedi dweud bod yn rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU weithio gyda'i gilydd i ddeall pam fod gennym niferoedd mor uchel o blant yn cael eu rhoi mewn gofal, a chymryd camau i sicrhau nad Cymru yw'r wlad â'r gyfran uchaf o blant mewn gofal yn y DU.
Felly, ar wahân i fynd i'r afael â'r cynnydd yn nifer y plant sy'n cael eu rhoi mewn gofal, rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru wneud cymaint mwy i wella'r canlyniadau i blant sy'n derbyn gofal. Rhaid inni dorri'r cylch o ddechrau gwael mewn bywyd yn arwain at gyfleoedd gwael mewn bywyd. Mae gwaith gwych yn cael ei wneud ar draws Cymru, ond oherwydd pwysau ar y gweithlu a chyllid, dyna yw'r eithriad yn hytrach na'r norm. Rydym i gyd yn gwybod bod atal yn well na gwella, mae'n rhaid inni wneud popeth yn ein gallu i sicrhau nad yw profiadau niweidiol yn ystod plentyndod yn atal plant mewn gofal rhag dod yn oedolion iach, gweithgar a chynhyrchiol. Gwyddom yn rhy dda fod plant mewn gofal yn llai tebygol o gael cymwysterau addysgol da, yn profi mwy o broblemau iechyd a lles ac o gael anghenion tai fel oedolion, ac yn wynebu mwy o risg o gamddefnyddio sylweddau. Drwy fuddsoddi i liniaru'r risgiau hyn, byddwn yn gwella'r canlyniadau i'r unigolyn, a byddwn yn gwella ein cymdeithas yn ei chyfanrwydd hefyd.
Fel y dywedais yn gynharach, ceir enghreifftiau gwych o waith ardderchog yn cael ei wneud, a hoffwn dynnu sylw unwaith eto at waith sefydliad Roots Foundation Wales yn fy rhanbarth i. Elusen yw hi sy'n cael ei harwain gan wirfoddolwyr yn Abertawe, gyda'r nod o gefnogi pobl ifanc mewn gofal, rhai sy'n gadael gofal, plant mewn angen ac oedolion sydd wedi gadael gofal gyda chyfnod pontio o fyw'n annibynnol. Maent yn helpu pobl ifanc yn llwyddiannus iawn i bontio i fywyd y tu allan i'r system ofal ac maent yn addysgu'r sgiliau sydd eu hangen i fyw'n annibynnol—sgiliau y mae'r rhan fwyaf ohonom yn eu dysgu gan rieni, ond nad yw plant mewn gofal yn meddu arnynt bob amser, yn anffodus, oherwydd amryw fathau o bwysau. Dylai'r hyn y mae Roots Foundation Wales yn ei wneud ddigwydd fel mater o drefn ac ni ddylai fod angen elusennau fel hyn, ond rwyf fi a'r cannoedd o blant y maent wedi'u cefnogi yn falch eu bod yn bodoli. Fodd bynnag, mae dyletswydd arnom i'r 7,000 o blant sydd mewn gofal i wneud cymaint mwy. Rwy'n annog yr Aelodau i gefnogi'r cynnig hwn.
Thank you to everyone taking part in this debate. I think it's been very interesting so far, and I appreciate that perhaps the main thrust of it is about reducing the numbers of children in care in a safe way, but in discussing life chances, which I think is point 2 of our motion, I think we do need to look at the relationship between looked-after children and the education system in which they find themselves and about how the needs of those children are met. It's not a stand-alone issue, of course. The ability of any child to get anything from the formal education system to improve their life chances of course, as Caroline Jones said, can be compromised by a host of childhood experiences, but it is for the system to respond to the needs of the children and, actually, the role played by other important people in that child's life, rather than the other way around.
So, the first question I want to ask is: how confident are we of how well foster carers are supported and how well they are trained and encouraged to find out the best ways to help the child that's in their care get the most out of their education? This has already been mentioned, but our children's committee did some very hard-hitting work a few years ago on the lack of effective post-adoption support for new parents, but I think the same is going to be true for those long-term foster placements—not the shorter ones, but the longer term foster carers, including kinship carers who, of course, are going through their own mixture of very complicated emotions relating to their own family. So I just want to make the point that point 4(d) of our motion is not just about a child's safety and, perhaps, their behaviour, it's about recognising that school can be one more place for a looked-after child to feel lost or misunderstood, unsupported, miserable and out of place, even in those schools that are the most switched on to the extra needs of looked-after children. So, can we just be sure and ask ourselves that question as to whether foster carers have all the tools they need to fight a child's corner with that child's school? As we've heard already, educational outcomes for looked-after children are poorer than for their peers. I'm not going to rehearse that again.
We should of course be pleased that 23 per cent of looked-after children are now achieving their five good GCSEs. That's considerably up in the last eight years, but we still have 23 per cent of those children who leave with no qualifications at all. How has that happened? What has gone so right and simultaneously so wrong, because behind those figures are some others that should worry us. We've already heard that 10.9 per cent of looked-after children—that's a very small proportion—are reaching that point to be reasonably expected of a 16-year-old. So I'm wondering will we now see a drop in that range of—[Interruption.] Yes, by all means.
Diolch i bawb a gymerodd ran yn y ddadl hon. Credaf iddi fod yn ddiddorol iawn hyd yn hyn, ac rwy'n sylweddoli efallai mai prif fyrdwn y ddadl yw lleihau nifer y plant mewn gofal mewn ffordd ddiogel, ond wrth drafod cyfleoedd bywyd, sef pwynt 2 ein cynnig, rwy'n credu bod angen inni edrych ar y berthynas rhwng plant sy'n derbyn gofal a'r system addysg y maent ynddi a'r modd y diwellir anghenion y plant hynny. Nid yw'n fater sy'n sefyll ar ei ben ei hun, wrth gwrs. Fel y dywedodd Caroline Jones, gall llu o brofiadau plentyndod beryglu gallu unrhyw blentyn i gael unrhyw beth o'r system addysg ffurfiol i wella eu cyfleoedd bywyd, ond mater i'r system mewn gwirionedd yw ymateb i anghenion y plant a'r rôl a chwaraeir gan bobl bwysig eraill ym mywyd y plentyn, yn hytrach nag fel arall.
Felly, y cwestiwn cyntaf rwyf am ei ofyn yw: pa mor hyderus rydym ni fod gofalwyr maeth yn cael eu cefnogi'n dda a pha mor dda y cânt eu hyfforddi a'u hannog i ganfod y ffyrdd gorau o helpu'r plentyn sydd yn eu gofal i gael y gorau o'u haddysg? Crybwyllwyd hyn eisoes, ond gwnaeth ein pwyllgor plant waith trawiadol iawn ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl ar ddiffyg cymorth ôl-fabwysiadu effeithiol i rieni newydd, ond credaf fod yr un peth yn mynd i fod yn wir am leoliadau maeth hirdymor—nid y rhai byrrach, ond y gofalwyr maeth mwy hirdymor, gan gynnwys gofalwyr sy'n berthnasau, wrth gwrs, sy'n mynd drwy eu cymysgedd eu hunain o emosiynau cymhleth iawn yn ymwneud â'u teulu eu hunain. Felly rwyf am wneud y pwynt fod pwynt 4(d) ein cynnig yn ymwneud â mwy na diogelwch plentyn, a'u hymddygiad efallai, mae'n ymwneud â chydnabod y gall ysgol fod yn un lle arall i blentyn sy'n derbyn gofal deimlo ei fod ar goll, yn ddiflas a heb fod yn perthyn, neu nad oes neb yn ei ddeall, ac nad yw'n cael cymorth, hyd yn oed yn yr ysgolion sy'n fwyaf effro i anghenion ychwanegol plant sy'n derbyn gofal. Felly, a allwn fod yn sicr a gofyn i ni'n hunain a oes gan ofalwyr maeth yr holl arfau sydd eu hangen arnynt i ymladd dros eu plentyn yn ysgol y plentyn hwnnw? Fel y clywsom eisoes, mae canlyniadau addysgol plant sy'n derbyn gofal yn waeth na rhai eu cyfoedion. Nid wyf am ailadrodd hynny eto.
Wrth gwrs, dylem fod yn falch fod 23 y cant o blant sy'n derbyn gofal bellach yn cael pum TGAU da. Mae hynny wedi cynyddu'n sylweddol yn yr wyth mlynedd diwethaf, ond mae 23 y cant o'r plant hynny'n dal i adael ysgol heb gymwysterau o gwbl. Sut y mae hynny wedi digwydd? Beth sydd wedi mynd mor dda ac mor anghywir ar yr un pryd, oherwydd y tu ôl i'r ffigurau hynny mae eraill a ddylai fod yn destun pryder i ni. Rydym eisoes wedi clywed mai 10.9 y cant o blant sy'n derbyn gofal—sy'n gyfran fach iawn—sy'n cyrraedd y pwynt y gellir ei ddisgwyl yn rhesymol gan blentyn 16 oed. Felly, tybed a welwn ostyngiad yn awr yn yr ystod honno o—[Torri ar draws.] Ie, ar bob cyfrif.
Thank you. I totally understand the aspiration behind that and totally share that aspiration in terms of that threshold figure around GCSEs. Would you also acknowledge that there is a wide range of ability and, for some children, being able to attend school and come out of school intact is a major achievement, and that it's not all about qualifications?
Diolch. Rwy'n llwyr ddeall y dyhead y tu ôl i hynny ac yn rhannu'r dyhead hwnnw'n gyfan gwbl o ran y ffigur trothwy ar gyfer TGAU. A fyddech hefyd yn cydnabod bod ystod eang o allu ac i rai plant, fod gallu mynychu'r ysgol a dod oddi yno'n un darn yn gyflawniad mawr, ac nad yw'n ymwneud â chymwysterau'n unig?
I completely accept that point, but if you're in a world where qualifications mean so much, we need to be acting in a way that doesn't artificially prevent children who have care experience from being able to access that and getting the most out of qualifications if they can. So it's certainly not a position that everyone's got to have 6,000 GCSEs, regardless of their background.
Nevertheless, I think this is an important point, Rhianon. The children's commissioner herself has pointed out that 43 per cent of children who are looked after or have been looked after aren't engaged in education, training or employment at the age of 19, and that's despite some of them now having pretty good GCSEs. And it does compare with 5 per cent of their peers. So, while qualifications absolutely aren't the only thing we should be thinking about, it does matter that the children who can get them do get them. What contribution does it make to your well-being if, after a lifetime of school, you emerge without a single qualification? How easy it must be to write yourself off when you've barely started on your adult life.
The Minister for Education, of course, is putting well over £100 million into the pupil development grant. I imagine you're frustrated with progress a little bit on the outcomes for our most deprived children, including our looked-after children. Estyn point out, of course, that provision is very variable, so that maybe is something where we can have some ministerial oversight. But your version of our looked-after children premium is going to consortia; you mentioned that yourself just a few weeks ago. I'm quite keen to find out how much money is going directly to schools to help them help looked-after children negotiate the new curriculum, and contribute to a whole-school system that really nurtures looked-after children, because online resources are one thing but teachers need time to assess and use them.
Deputy Minister, I think this is where some cross-Government work would be useful. Ministers and Members have talked about ACEs for a long time, and I was a bit disappointed to know that it's only now that a holistic approach, which Siân Gwenllian mentioned, to children and education specifically is being explored, when well-being and the capacity to achieve potential are well interwoven.
I just want to finish, Dirprwy Lywydd, on the point that Janet Finch-Saunders raised about the Skolfam programme developed in Sweden—and the Welsh Government love Sweden—which is a system for children in foster care, based entirely on multi-agency commitment and mapping. It saw the attainment of participants improve considerably and results in standardised tests improve significantly. But what mattered to me was looking at the number of young children who achieved the required results to attend post-16 education: we go back to life chances. A hundred per cent on this scheme achieved those grades compared with 67 per cent of children in care who did not. Now, that 100 per cent of children, that's 100 per cent of them reassured that they had a future that defied their past, and I think that's the kind of ambition we need to be looking for here in the Welsh Government. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.
Rwy'n derbyn y pwynt yn llwyr, ond os ydych mewn byd lle mae cymwysterau'n golygu cymaint, mae angen inni weithredu mewn ffordd nad yw'n atal plant sydd â phrofiad o ofal yn artiffisial rhag gallu gwneud hynny a manteisio i'r eithaf o'u cymwysterau os gallant. Felly, yn sicr nid yw'n wir fod yn rhaid i bawb gael 6,000 TGAU, waeth beth fo'u cefndir.
Serch hynny, credaf fod hwn yn bwynt pwysig, Rhianon. Mae'r comisiynydd plant ei hun wedi tynnu sylw at y ffaith nad yw 43 y cant o blant sy'n derbyn gofal neu sydd wedi derbyn gofal yn cymryd rhan mewn addysg, hyfforddiant na chyflogaeth pan fyddant yn 19 oed, a hynny er bod gan rai ohonynt gymwysterau TGAU eithaf da erbyn hynny. Ac mae'n cymharu â 5 y cant o'u cyfoedion. Felly, er nad cymwysterau yw'r unig beth y dylem ei ystyried, mae'n bwysig fod y plant sy'n gallu eu cael yn eu cael. Pa gyfraniad y mae'n ei wneud i'ch lles os byddwch, ar ôl oes o ysgol, yn dod oddi yno heb unrhyw gymhwyster? Byddai'n eithriadol o hawdd i chi golli hunan-hyder yn llwyr a chithau prin wedi dechrau ar eich bywyd fel oedolyn.
Mae'r Gweinidog Addysg, wrth gwrs, yn rhoi ymhell dros £100 miliwn tuag at y grant datblygu disgyblion. Rwy'n dychmygu eich bod yn teimlo braidd yn rhwystredig ynglŷn â chynnydd y canlyniadau i'n plant mwyaf difreintiedig, gan gynnwys ein plant sy'n derbyn gofal. Mae Estyn yn tynnu sylw, wrth gwrs, at y ffaith bod y ddarpariaeth yn amrywiol iawn, felly efallai fod hynny'n rhywbeth lle gallwn gael rhywfaint o drosolwg gweinidogol arno. Ond mae eich fersiwn chi o'n premiwm plant sy'n derbyn gofal yn mynd i gonsortia; fe sonioch am hynny eich hun ychydig wythnosau'n ôl. Rwy'n eithaf awyddus i ddarganfod faint o arian sy'n mynd yn uniongyrchol i ysgolion i'w helpu i gynorthwyo plant sy'n derbyn gofal i ganfod eu ffordd drwy'r cwricwlwm newydd, a chyfrannu at system ysgol gyfan sy'n meithrin plant sy'n derbyn gofal yn dda, gan mai un peth yw adnoddau ar-lein ond mae angen amser ar athrawon i'w hasesu a'u defnyddio.
Ddirprwy Weinidog, rwy'n meddwl mai dyma lle byddai rhywfaint o waith trawslywodraethol yn ddefnyddiol. Mae Gweinidogion ac Aelodau wedi bod yn sôn am brofiadau niweidiol yn ystod plentyndod ers amser maith, ac roeddwn braidd yn siomedig wrth glywed mai dim ond yn awr yr archwilir ymagwedd gyfannol, y soniodd Siân Gwenllian amdani, tuag at blant ac addysg yn benodol, pan fo lles a'r gallu i gyflawni potensial wedi'u plethu'n dda.
Hoffwn orffen, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ar y pwynt a godwyd gan Janet Finch-Saunders am raglen Skolfam a ddatblygwyd yn Sweden—ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn hoff iawn o Sweden—sef system ar gyfer plant mewn gofal maeth, sy'n gwbl seiliedig ar ymrwymiad amlasiantaethol a mapio. Gwelai fod cyrhaeddiad cyfranogwyr yn gwella'n fawr a bod canlyniadau mewn profion safonedig yn gwella'n sylweddol. Ond yr hyn a oedd yn bwysig i mi oedd edrych ar nifer y plant ifanc a gyflawnodd y canlyniadau gofynnol i fynychu addysg ôl-16: rydym yn dychwelyd at gyfleoedd bywyd. Cyflawnodd 100 y cant o'r rhai ar y cynllun hwn y graddau hynny o'i gymharu â 67 y cant o blant mewn gofal na wnaeth hynny. Nawr, dyna 100 y cant o blant, dyna 100 y cant ohonynt wedi'u hargyhoeddi bod ganddynt ddyfodol a fyddai'n gwrthsefyll eu gorffennol, ac rwy'n credu mai dyna'r math o uchelgais y mae angen inni chwilio amdano yma yn Llywodraeth Cymru. Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd.
When we refer to looked-after children, we mean those children and young people looked after by the state in a manner described under UK and Wales legislation, whether that be in state institutions or under some form of fostering arrangement. Looked-after children and children living in state care remain, unfortunately, one of the most vulnerable groups in our society. The number of children subject to care proceedings has increased substantially over recent years, and the majority entering care due to alleged parental or family abuse and neglect.
It is an unfortunate fact that, compared to their peers, looked-after children generally have poorer outcomes in relation to education and mental health, as has been mentioned several times earlier, with many experiencing isolation and continued vulnerability whilst in care. Despite some improvement in the care system, many young people still go on to have poor life experiences when leaving state care, which include problems in relation to poverty, lack of suitable accommodation and employment.
It is therefore vital that the removal of children from a family home should always be the last resort. It is understandable that social workers err on the side of caution, given the condemnation of some decisions made by their colleagues in recent high-profile cases. However, it is also a fact that an over-zealous approach can sometimes act against the best interests of the child, and therefore the family.
The First Minister in his election address to the post he now occupies realised that too many children are taken from families in Wales. He also alluded to setting targets, a target for each local authority to reduce the number of children from that locality—
Pan gyfeiriwn at blant sy'n derbyn gofal, golygwn y plant a'r bobl ifanc sy'n derbyn gofal gan y wladwriaeth mewn modd a ddisgrifir o dan ddeddfwriaeth y DU a Chymru, boed hynny mewn sefydliadau gwladol neu o dan ryw fath o drefniant maethu. Yn anffodus, mae plant sy'n derbyn gofal a phlant sy'n byw yng ngofal y wladwriaeth yn dal i fod yn un o'r grwpiau mwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas. Mae nifer y plant sy'n destun achosion gofal wedi cynyddu'n sylweddol dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, ac mae'r mwyafrif yn cael eu rhoi mewn gofal yn sgil honiad o gam-drin neu esgeuluso ar ran rhieni neu deulu.
Mae'n ffaith anffodus fod canlyniadau plant sy'n derbyn gofal yn waeth na chanlyniadau eu cyfoedion mewn perthynas ag addysg ac iechyd meddwl, fel y crybwyllwyd sawl gwaith yn gynharach, gyda llawer ohonynt yn teimlo'n ynysig ac yn dal i fod yn agored i niwed tra byddant mewn gofal. Er y cafwyd rhywfaint o welliant yn y system ofal, mae llawer o bobl ifanc yn dal i fynd ymlaen i gael profiadau bywyd gwael wrth adael gofal y wladwriaeth, yn cynnwys problemau mewn perthynas â thlodi, a diffyg llety a gwaith addas.
Mae'n hollbwysig, felly, y dylai symud plant o gartref teuluol fod yn ddewis olaf bob tro. Mae'n ddealladwy fod gweithwyr cymdeithasol yn rhy ofalus, o gofio bod rhai penderfyniadau a wnaed gan eu cydweithwyr wedi'u condemnio mewn achosion proffil uchel yn ddiweddar. Fodd bynnag, mae'n ffaith hefyd y gall ymagwedd rhy eiddgar weithredu yn erbyn lles gorau'r plentyn weithiau, ac felly yn erbyn lles y teulu.
Roedd y Prif Weinidog, yn ei anerchiad etholiadol i'r swydd y mae bellach ynddi, yn sylweddoli bod gormod o blant yn cael eu symud o deuluoedd yng Nghymru. Cyfeiriodd hefyd at osod targedau, targed i bob awdurdod lleol leihau nifer y plant o'r ardal honno—
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
—removed from the care of the family, including—. Of course I will.
—sy'n cael eu symud o ofal y teulu, gan gynnwys—. Wrth gwrs y gwnaf.
Thank you for that. Would you acknowledge that in regard to having too many children in a local authority being taken into care, as you have just stated, is based on an individual assessment of each individual case? And that has to go through a very long and drawn-out process, which I haven't really got time to go through at this moment in time. That has to be done because of that child's particular situation, and that's the only factor involved.
Diolch am hynny. A fyddech yn cydnabod, o ran cael gormod o blant mewn awdurdod lleol yn cael eu rhoi mewn gofal, fel rydych newydd ei ddweud, ei fod yn seiliedig ar asesiad unigol o bob achos unigol? Ac mae'n rhaid i hynny fynd drwy broses hir a maith, nad oes gennyf amser i fynd drwyddi ar hyn o bryd. Mae'n rhaid gwneud hynny oherwydd sefyllfa benodol y plentyn dan sylw, a dyna'r unig ffactor sy'n gysylltiedig â hyn.
I certainly acknowledge that, Rhianon, but it does appear from the statistics that we have in Wales, compared to those they have in England and the other parts of the UK, that there seems to be an over-zealous approach being used in Wales by those social workers who are looking after these children, and I'll come to what happens after.
And I want to just look at what happens once the children are taken into care. Families who have children taken away face great difficulties in overturning social service decisions with regard to removing their child or children. The fact that family courts are closed courts, including the exclusion of journalists, means there is no independent scrutiny of the judicial procedures. There are also many obstacles for families in securing good legal representation as there may be conflicts of interests where large practices are often engaged on local authority business.
The removal of a child from its natural parents is a traumatic event, both for the child and the family, including grandparents and close family. It is therefore essential that such decisions can be robustly scrutinised through the judicial system. There's a great deal of anecdotal evidence to suggest that under the present legal system this is almost impossible to obtain. Whilst we recognise that much of the legal levers lie outside the competencies of the Welsh Government, we would urge you to make interventions where possible to enable a true scrutiny of the whole area of the taking of children into state care or the allocation of where parental control should lie.
Rwy'n sicr yn cydnabod hynny, Rhianon, ond mae'n ymddangos o'r ystadegau sydd gennym yng Nghymru, o'u cymharu â'r rhai sydd ganddynt yn Lloegr a'r rhannau eraill o'r DU, ei bod yn ymddangos bod ymagwedd rhy eiddgar yng Nghymru gan y gweithwyr cymdeithasol sy'n edrych ar ôl y plant hyn, ac fe ddof at yr hyn sy'n digwydd wedyn.
Ac rwyf am edrych yn unig ar yr hyn sy'n digwydd pan fydd y plant yn cael eu rhoi mewn gofal. Mae teuluoedd y cafodd plant eu cymryd oddi wrthynt yn ei chael hi'n anodd iawn gwyrdroi penderfyniadau gwasanaethau cymdeithasol mewn perthynas â symud eu plentyn neu eu plant. Mae'r ffaith bod llysoedd teulu yn llysoedd caeedig, gan gynnwys eithrio newyddiadurwyr, yn golygu nad oes craffu annibynnol ar y gweithdrefnau barnwrol. Mae llawer o rwystrau hefyd i deuluoedd rhag gallu sicrhau cynrychiolaeth gyfreithiol dda oherwydd gallai fod gwrthdaro buddiannau lle mae cwmnïau cyfreithwyr mawr yn aml yn ymwneud â busnes awdurdodau lleol.
Mae symud plentyn o ofal ei rieni naturiol yn ddigwyddiad trawmatig, i'r plentyn ac i'r teulu, gan gynnwys i deidiau a neiniau a theulu agos. Mae'n hanfodol felly y gellir craffu'n drylwyr ar benderfyniadau o'r fath drwy'r system farnwrol. Ceir llawer o dystiolaeth anecdotaidd sy'n awgrymu bod hyn bron yn amhosibl o dan y system gyfreithiol bresennol. Er ein bod yn cydnabod bod llawer o'r dulliau cyfreithiol y tu hwnt i gymwyseddau Llywodraeth Cymru, byddem yn eich annog i ymyrryd lle bo hynny'n bosibl er mwyn gallu craffu'n gywir ar holl faes symud plant i ofal y wladwriaeth neu farnu pwy ddylai gael rheolaeth rhiant.
Would you give way?
A wnewch chi ildio?
The fact of the matter is that closed family courts—
Y gwir amdani yw nad yw llysoedd teulu caeedig—
Are you giving way?
A ydych chi'n ildio?
—are not in the interests of the children. Sorry, I do apologise.
—er lles y plant. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, rwy'n ymddiheuro.
Thanks. I absolutely agree with what you're saying about the family court system. So, do you not think that we could do it better in Wales if we had our own legal jurisdiction here?
Diolch. Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â'r hyn rydych yn ei ddweud am y system llysoedd teulu. Felly, oni chredwch y gallem ei wneud yn well yng Nghymru pe bai gennym ein hawdurdodaeth gyfreithiol ein hunain yma?
Well, I'm not sure that that would happen. We have to have a situation where there's an acknowledgement of the fact that family courts sitting in secret is wrong. When I was a magistrate, I could instruct all journalists in a court—I could give reporting restrictions on those journalists. I see no reason why those restrictions can't be applied to family courts. I appreciate the fact that we shouldn't have the general public in family courts, but why not journalists to make sure that there is some scrutiny of what goes on? I think it's appalling that there isn't.
Wel, nid wyf yn siŵr y byddai hynny'n digwydd. Mae'n rhaid inni gael sefyllfa lle mae cydnabyddiaeth i'r ffaith bod llysoedd teulu sy'n eistedd yn gyfrinachol yn anghywir. Pan oeddwn yn ynad, gallwn gyfarwyddo'r holl newyddiadurwyr mewn llys—gallwn roi cyfyngiadau adrodd ar y newyddiadurwyr hynny. Ni welaf unrhyw reswm pam na ellir gosod y cyfyngiadau hynny mewn llysoedd teulu. Rwy'n derbyn na ddylem adael i'r cyhoedd ddod i lysoedd teulu, ond pam na ddylem gael newyddiadurwyr i wneud yn siŵr fod craffu'n cael ei gyflawni ar yr hyn sy'n digwydd? Rwy'n credu ei bod yn warthus nad oes.
Thank you. Can I now call the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services, Julie Morgan?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar y Dirprwy Weinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Julie Morgan?
Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to respond to this debate today, and I'd like to thank the Conservatives for bringing this debate to the Chamber. I think there's been a lot of interest and a lot of very important points made. So, thank you for that.
I first want to acknowledge the very helpful work of the Public Accounts Committee and its inquiry into care-experienced children and young people. I also want to acknowledge the work of the ministerial advisory group, very ably chaired by David Melding, who I'm pleased is in the Chamber today. And following on from his announcement on the weekend, I'd really like to pay tribute to David for his huge contribution to children in Wales. I've worked with David—we've worked together on this issue—for many years, and his contribution to children in Wales is immeasurable. So, thank you, David.
While I'm pleased with the progress of the Outcomes for Children programme, I think it's very important that we do not be complacent. Statistics from March 2019 showed that the number of children looked after by local authorities continued to increase by 7 per cent on the previous year, and, obviously, an increase is disappointing, but it is very important to note that for the second year running the number of children starting to become looked after has decreased.
It's very important that children have stable placements. The 2018 and 2019 data show that 9 per cent of children had three or more placement moves. These figures have actually remained stable over a period of time, and I think we've just got to recognise that, sometimes, placement moves are necessary and are in the best interest, but we want children to have as much stability as possible.
This area of work is complex and we are working with partners across the whole system, and many of those areas have been mentioned today, including the local authority, social services, the judiciary, health, education, housing and the third sector and all these organisations have a significant role in helping to keep families safely together and reducing the need for children to come into care.
The motion makes a number of calls on Government, so I will address these in turn—firstly, to review local authorities' reduction expectation plans. We already do this through our peer learning and feedback group. Local authorities' progress in the first six months showed that the looked-after rate has slowed. While there was an increase during this period, it was at a rate of 1.3 per cent, and previous years' annual increases have been around 7 per cent. I want to caution that these are unvalidated numbers, but I do hope that this trend will continue. That is for the first six months.
The reasons for increases in the looked-after population are, indeed, complex, as Siân Gwenllian said in her amendment, but I'm absolutely in no doubt that the First Minister's request for local authorities to set reduction targets has focused minds and encouraged a whole-system approach to prevention. And we are on that journey of improvement and must sustain momentum. As I've said before in the Chamber, the targets are the targets put forward by the local authorities, there no penalties, and they are only part of a whole-system approach.
In terms of foster carers, we continue to help local authorities recruit more foster carers through the national fostering framework, and this year we provided an additional £100,000 to progress its marketing strategy. Similarly, we're striving to make adoption services in Wales the best they can be. In 2019-20 we provided unprecedented funding of £3.2 million for local authorities and voluntary adoption agencies to improve adoption support, to be delivered through the adoption support framework for Wales. I attended an adoption symposium yesterday in the Temple of Peace, and although everybody acknowledged there is a long way to go, certainly there is a feeling that now the Welsh Government has invested in very important areas of post-adoption support—and some of the comments made today about parents having to struggle post adoption—we are definitely trying to address that. I was on that first inquiry that looked into adoption, and I would say that there has been improvement since then, but there's still a long way to go. [Interruption.] Yes.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy’n falch iawn o gael cyfle i ymateb i’r ddadl hon heddiw, a hoffwn ddiolch i’r Ceidwadwyr am ddod â’r ddadl hon i’r Siambr. Rwy'n credu bod llawer o ddiddordeb wedi’i ddangos a llawer o bwyntiau pwysig iawn wedi'u gwneud. Felly, diolch am hynny.
Yn gyntaf, rwyf am gydnabod gwaith defnyddiol iawn y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus a'i ymchwiliad i blant a phobl ifanc sydd wedi cael profiad o ofal, ac rwyf hefyd am gydnabod gwaith grŵp cynghori’r Gweinidog dan gadeiryddiaeth fedrus iawn David Melding, ac rwy’n falch o weld ei fod yn y Siambr heddiw. Ac yn dilyn ei gyhoeddiad ar y penwythnos, hoffwn dalu teyrnged i David am ei gyfraniad enfawr i blant yng Nghymru. Rwyf wedi gweithio gyda David—rydym wedi gweithio gyda'n gilydd ar y mater hwn—ers blynyddoedd lawer, ac mae ei gyfraniad i blant yng Nghymru yn anfesuradwy. Felly, diolch, David.
Er fy mod yn falch o weld cynnydd y rhaglen Canlyniadau i Blant, credaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn inni beidio â llaesu dwylo. Dangosodd ystadegau ym mis Mawrth 2019 fod nifer y plant a oedd yn derbyn gofal gan awdurdodau lleol wedi parhau i gynyddu 7 y cant ar y flwyddyn flaenorol , ac yn amlwg, mae cynnydd yn siomedig, ond mae'n bwysig iawn nodi, am yr ail flwyddyn yn olynol, fod nifer y plant sy'n dechrau derbyn gofal wedi gostwng.
Mae'n bwysig iawn fod plant yn cael lleoliadau sefydlog. Mae data 2018 a 2019 yn dangos bod 9 y cant o blant wedi symud lleoliad dair gwaith neu fwy. Mae'r ffigurau hyn wedi aros yn sefydlog dros gyfnod o amser, a chredaf fod yn rhaid i ni gydnabod bod angen symud lleoliadau weithiau a bod hynny er lles gorau plant, ond rydym am i blant gael cymaint o sefydlogrwydd â phosibl.
Mae'r maes gwaith hwn yn gymhleth ac rydym yn gweithio gyda phartneriaid ar draws y system gyfan, a soniwyd am lawer o'r meysydd hynny heddiw, gan gynnwys yr awdurdod lleol, gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, y farnwriaeth, iechyd, addysg, tai a'r trydydd sector ac mae gan y sefydliadau hyn oll rôl bwysig i'w chwarae yn helpu i gadw teuluoedd yn ddiogel gyda'i gilydd a lleihau'r angen i blant gael eu rhoi mewn gofal.
Mae'r cynnig yn cyflwyno nifer o alwadau ar y Llywodraeth, felly rwyf am ymdrin â'r rhain yn eu tro—yn gyntaf, adolygu cynlluniau disgwyliadau lleihau awdurdodau lleol. Rydym eisoes yn gwneud hyn drwy ein grŵp dysgu ac adborth gan gymheiriaid. Roedd cynnydd awdurdodau lleol yn ystod y chwe mis cyntaf yn dangos bod y gyfradd sy'n derbyn gofal wedi arafu. Er y bu cynnydd yn ystod y cyfnod hwn, roedd ar gyfradd o 1.3 y cant, ac mae cynnydd y blynyddoedd blaenorol wedi bod oddeutu 7 y cant. Rwyf am rybuddio nad yw'r ffigurau hyn wedi'u dilysu, ond rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y duedd hon yn parhau. Ar gyfer y chwe mis cyntaf y mae hynny.
Mae'r rhesymau dros y cynnydd yn y boblogaeth sy'n derbyn gofal yn gymhleth, fel y dywedodd Siân Gwenllian yn ei gwelliant, ond rwy'n gwbl sicr fod cais y Prif Weinidog i awdurdodau lleol osod targedau lleihau wedi hoelio ein meddyliau ac wedi annog dull system gyfan o atal. Ac rydym ar y daith honno o welliant a rhaid i ni gynnal momentwm. Fel y dywedais o'r blaen yn y Siambr, y targedau yw'r targedau a gyflwynwyd gan yr awdurdodau lleol, nid oes unrhyw gosbau, a dim ond rhan o ddull gweithredu system gyfan ydynt.
O ran gofalwyr maeth, rydym yn parhau i helpu awdurdodau lleol i recriwtio mwy o ofalwyr maeth drwy'r fframwaith maethu cenedlaethol, ac eleni fe wnaethom ddarparu £100,000 ychwanegol i ddatblygu ei strategaeth farchnata. Yn yr un modd, rydym yn ymdrechu i sicrhau bod gwasanaethau mabwysiadu yng Nghymru cystal ag y gallant fod. Yn 2019-20, darparwyd cyllid digynsail o £3.2 miliwn gennym i awdurdodau lleol ac asiantaethau mabwysiadu gwirfoddol i wella cymorth mabwysiadu, i'w ddarparu drwy'r fframwaith cymorth mabwysiadu ar gyfer Cymru. Mynychais symposiwm ar fabwysiadu ddoe yn y Deml Heddwch, ac er bod pawb yn cydnabod bod cryn ffordd i fynd, gan fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi buddsoddi mewn meysydd pwysig o gymorth ôl-fabwysiadu bellach, yn sicr ceir teimlad—ac mae rhai o'r sylwadau a wnaethpwyd heddiw ynglŷn â'r ffaith bod rhieni'n ei chael hi'n anodd ymdopi ar ôl mabwysiadu—rydym yn bendant yn ceisio mynd i'r afael â hynny. Roeddwn yn rhan o'r ymchwiliad cyntaf a edrychodd ar fabwysiadu, a buaswn yn dweud bod gwelliant wedi bod ers hynny, ond mae ffordd bell i fynd o hyd. [Torri ar draws.] Iawn.
Thanks for giving way, Julie. You mentioned at the start of your contribution the work of the Public Accounts Committee in this area that looked at all of these areas. As you'll know, we made a point of taking evidence from the young people themselves, and one of the overriding messages that we got from those young people was the importance of stability, particularly when it comes to placements. Some young people may be having 20, 25 placements in one year. So, when you're looking at this whole-system approach, do you value the input of the committee in suggesting that there should be greater stability for young people and that they should be put at the centre of the process, not just told what's going to happen to them?
Diolch am ildio, Julie. Ar ddechrau eich cyfraniad, fe sonioch am waith y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus yn y maes hwn a edrychodd ar bob un o'r meysydd hyn. Fel y gwyddoch, fe wnaethom bwynt o gymryd tystiolaeth gan y bobl ifanc eu hunain, ac un o'r negeseuon pwysicaf a gawsom gan y bobl ifanc hynny oedd pwysigrwydd sefydlogrwydd, yn enwedig o ran lleoliadau. Efallai y bydd rhai pobl ifanc yn cael 20, 25 o leoliadau mewn un flwyddyn. Felly, pan fyddwch yn edrych ar y dull system gyfan hwn, a ydych yn gwerthfawrogi cyfraniad y pwyllgor yn awgrymu y dylai fod mwy o sefydlogrwydd i bobl ifanc ac y dylid eu rhoi yng nghanol y broses, nid dim ond dweud wrthynt beth sy'n mynd i ddigwydd iddynt?
Absolutely. I think that's a very important point—the children must be at the centre of this—and I value the work that the Public Accounts Committee did on that issue.
Local authorities are under a statutory duty to assess the need for adoption support services for individual adoptive families, including making an assessment for financial support to meet the particular needs of children. We have an all-Wales policy that sets the criteria and circumstances within which an adoption allowance can be paid, the assessment and review process, and what the support can cover.
As a Government, we've placed a firm focus on positive parenting and recognise the value of parenting support. Our parenting expert action group is looking at how parenting support can be delivered most effectively across Wales. And I don't want to pre-empt the outcome of their work, but want to emphasise that while parenting support, as part of a course, has its place, other approaches are available and effective in different circumstances.
In light of what I've just explained, I will support the original motion, but I won't support Siân Gwenllian's amendment because I don't accept the words about the targets. But I thank her for her considered opinions and for drawing attention to the Thomas review.
And in relation to the EU settled status scheme—and Rhianon also mentioned this—there are 115 eligible children in Wales, and we're working with the Home Office, the local authorities, ADSS Cymru and the WLGA to support the application process for these children. And we're in regular contact with the local authorities about this matter.
In terms of Neil McEvoy's amendments, obviously, in all the work we're doing with children, their safety has to be the predominant determinant of what we do. But contact with parents is, indeed, very important, and a key part of reunifying families after a child has had some time in care, along with ongoing support. So, I will support that amendment. I agree about the importance of advocates, and these arrangements are already in law and guidance, so I will also support that.
However, I won't support the other amendments for reasons I will explain. I too am concerned that care leavers who become parents may be at risk of discrimination. We want local authorities to shift their approach to better prevention, and this issue is part of that agenda. The Reflect programme we fund, which has already been mentioned, is providing much-needed support to parents, and we're already expecting a lot from local authorities, so we don't want to add a major case file audit to their workload.
Rebalancing the social care sector to support the growth of local authority fostering, residential care and reduce reliance on the private sector is Government policy. At the current time, however, we do need some good-quality private provision. So, I can't agree with the wording of that amendment, because we do have children in that provision at the moment, so we can't agree the wording of that amendment.
And on the complaints process, the Wales regulations 2014 and guidance make provision for an independent investigator who must be neither a member nor officer of the local authority. So, I can't support that amendment.
I am aware that I need to come to the end of my remarks, and there were a lot more issues I think that we could have gone into. I know that very important points were made about education, but I will stress the point in response to Oscar that we do have a pupil development grant that is specifically geared to children in care, as well as some other children. So, I think that's an important point to make.
But I think, finally, I'd like to end, as Janet Finch-Saunders did, on a positive note, and I know David Rowlands mentioned the Roots Foundation in Swansea. I visited the Roots Foundation, and I think that it's excellent work that they are doing there. I think we have to say that for many children, being in care is in their best interest and provides stability and security, as responses to the Bright Spots survey have shown. I have met care leavers who are doing admirably well, achieving academically and successfully living independent, fulfilled lives. So, I think it's important to finish on that positive note.
Yn bendant. Rwy'n credu bod hwnnw'n bwynt pwysig iawn—rhaid i'r plant fod yn ganolog i hyn—ac rwy'n gwerthfawrogi'r gwaith a wnaeth y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus ar y mater.
Mae dyletswydd statudol ar awdurdodau lleol i asesu'r angen am wasanaethau cymorth mabwysiadu ar gyfer teuluoedd unigol sy'n mabwysiadu, gan gynnwys gwneud asesiad ar gyfer cymorth ariannol i ddiwallu anghenion penodol plant. Mae gennym bolisi Cymru gyfan sy'n pennu'r meini prawf a'r amgylchiadau y gellir talu lwfans mabwysiadu, y broses asesu ac adolygu, a'r hyn y gellir rhoi cymorth tuag ato.
Fel Llywodraeth, rydym wedi rhoi ffocws cadarn ar rianta cadarnhaol ac yn cydnabod gwerth cymorth rhianta. Mae ein grŵp gweithredu arbenigol ar rianta yn ystyried sut y gellir darparu cymorth rhianta yn y ffordd fwyaf effeithiol ledled Cymru. Ac nid wyf am ragdybio canlyniad eu gwaith, ond hoffwn bwysleisio, er bod lle i gymorth rhianta fel rhan o gwrs, mae dulliau eraill ar gael ac maent yn effeithiol mewn gwahanol amgylchiadau.
Yng ngoleuni'r hyn rwyf newydd ei egluro, byddaf yn cefnogi'r cynnig gwreiddiol, ond ni fyddaf yn cefnogi gwelliant Siân Gwenllian oherwydd nid wyf yn derbyn y geiriau am y targedau. Ond diolch iddi am ei barn ystyriol ac am dynnu sylw at adolygiad Thomas.
Ac mewn perthynas â'r cynllun statws preswylio'n sefydlog i ddinasyddion yr UE—a soniodd Rhianon am hyn hefyd—ceir 115 o blant cymwys yng Nghymru, ac rydym yn gweithio gyda'r Swyddfa Gartref, yr awdurdodau lleol, Cymdeithas Cyfarwyddwyr Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol Cymru a Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru i gefnogi'r broses o wneud cais ar gyfer y plant hyn. Ac rydym mewn cysylltiad rheolaidd â'r awdurdodau lleol ynglŷn â'r mater hwn.
O ran gwelliannau Neil McEvoy, yn amlwg, yn yr holl waith rydym yn ei wneud gyda phlant, mae'n rhaid i'w diogelwch fod yn brif ffactor wrth benderfynu ar yr hyn a wnawn. Ond mae cysylltiad â rhieni'n bwysig iawn, ac yn rhan allweddol o'r broses o ailuno teuluoedd ar ôl i blentyn dreulio rhywfaint o amser mewn gofal, ynghyd â chymorth parhaus. Felly, byddaf yn cefnogi'r gwelliant hwnnw. Rwy'n cytuno ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd eiriolwyr, ac mae'r trefniadau hyn eisoes yn y gyfraith ac yn y canllawiau, felly byddaf yn cefnogi hynny hefyd.
Fodd bynnag, ni fyddaf yn cefnogi'r gwelliannau eraill am resymau y byddaf yn eu hegluro. Rwyf innau hefyd yn pryderu y gallai'r rhai sy'n gadael gofal ac a ddaw'n rhieni yn wynebu'r risg o wahaniaethu. Rydym am i awdurdodau lleol newid eu hagwedd tuag at atal gwell, ac mae'r mater hwn yn rhan o'r agenda honno. Mae'r rhaglen Reflect a ariannir gennym, ac y soniwyd amdani eisoes, yn darparu cymorth mawr ei angen i rieni, ac rydym eisoes yn disgwyl llawer gan awdurdodau lleol, felly nid ydym am ychwanegu archwiliad mawr o ffeiliau achos at eu llwyth gwaith.
Mae ailgydbwyso'r sector gofal cymdeithasol i gefnogi twf maethu a gofal preswyl awdurdodau lleol a lleihau dibyniaeth ar y sector preifat yn bolisi Llywodraeth. Ar hyn o bryd, fodd bynnag, mae angen rhywfaint o ddarpariaeth breifat o ansawdd da arnom. Felly, ni allaf gytuno â geiriad y gwelliant hwnnw, oherwydd mae gennym blant yn y ddarpariaeth honno ar hyn o bryd, felly ni allwn gytuno ar eiriad y gwelliant hwnnw.
Ac ar y broses gwyno, mae rheoliadau Cymru 2014 a'r canllawiau yn darparu ar gyfer ymchwilydd annibynnol nad yw'n aelod nac yn swyddog o'r awdurdod lleol. Felly, ni allaf gefnogi'r gwelliant hwnnw.
Rwy'n ymwybodol fod angen imi gwblhau fy sylwadau, ac roedd llawer mwy o faterion y credaf y gallem fod wedi'u trafod. Gwn fod pwyntiau pwysig iawn wedi'u gwneud am addysg, ond rwyf am bwysleisio'r pwynt mewn ymateb i Oscar fod gennym grant datblygu disgyblion sydd wedi'i anelu'n benodol at blant mewn gofal, yn ogystal â phlant eraill. Felly, rwy'n credu bod hwnnw'n bwynt pwysig i'w wneud.
Ond yn olaf, hoffwn orffen, fel y gwnaeth Janet Finch-Saunders, ar nodyn cadarnhaol, a gwn fod David Rowlands wedi sôn am Roots Foundation yn Abertawe. Ymwelais â Roots Foundation, a chredaf eu bod yn gwneud gwaith rhagorol yno. I lawer o blant, rwy'n credu bod rhaid inni ddweud mai bod mewn gofal yw'r hyn sydd orau er eu lles a bod hynny'n cynnig sefydlogrwydd a diogelwch, fel y mae ymatebion i'r arolwg Bright Spots wedi'i ddangos. Rwyf wedi cyfarfod â rhai sy'n gadael gofal ac sy'n gwneud yn rhagorol, yn cyflawni'n academaidd ac yn llwyddo i fyw bywydau annibynnol a bodlon. Felly, rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig gorffen ar y nodyn cadarnhaol hwnnw.
Thank you. I call on Mark Isherwood to reply to the debate.
Diolch. Galwaf ar Mark Isherwood i ymateb i'r ddadl.
Diolch. Thanks very much to everybody who's contributed. Janet Finch-Saunders, of course, opened the debate, saying the situation in Wales is currently slipping out of control with the number of looked-after children rising 34 per cent over 15 years, 6,845 children between nought and 18 currently looked after by local authorities, and the number of looked-after children in Wales per 10,000 now far higher than in England and Northern Ireland, and also higher than in Scotland on the latest published figures. She talked about the justice commission being sceptical about the effectiveness of expenditure in Wales to date on this agenda, the need to prioritise early intervention in practice to reduce the number of children going into care, and to improve life chances. She said children going into care are five times more likely to suffer mental health conditions than children not in care, and therefore we need to know not just how much is being targeted at looked-after children, but also how this is being monitored. With care leavers at an increased risk of homelessness and poverty, she said we need care leavers to be provided with an advocate, and for local authorities and the Welsh Government to identify and support looked-after children in Wales that are eligible to make applications to the EU settlement scheme, something many people mentioned, and the need to support adoptive parents to keep siblings together. She finished on a positive note about hope for the future and hope for these children.
Siân Gwenllian again referred to the Thomas report, the percentage of children receiving care in Wales higher than in England and Northern Ireland, and the Welsh Government needing to respond to the widening gap with England. She referred to emerging issues, such as county lines and online abuse, the need for a multi-agency approach in a number of areas, specifically schools and courts, and sustainable investment in preventative services to keep families together.
Neil McEvoy raised a number of concerns, including the need for contact—or concern about contact being restricted—between children who want to see parents and their parents; that parents themselves can be at risk of discrimination; that children alleging abuse should be taken seriously; and that complaint investigations need to be totally independent, and I fully agree with that.
Mohammad Asghar talked again about the Commission for Justice in Wales, stating that there has been a striking increase in the number of children in care in Wales and a wide variation between local authorities in Wales, and then he explored that further, and the need to break the cycle of deprivation, where the Welsh Government has launched a number of programmes and invested hugely in those, but none have stemmed so far the increase in looked-after children.
Rhianon Passmore referred to the strong cross-party consensus to ensure that care-experienced children are provided with the best support available, and the importance of early intervention and prevention services. Caroline Jones talked about children's interests being neglected in the family courts, the need to break the cycle of a poor start in life leading to poor life chances, and, again, like a number of people, subsequently referred to the great work of the Roots Foundation, emphasising the key role played by the voluntary sector, and again the vital importance of investing in the voluntary sector's key early intervention and prevention services in order to improve lives and use money better and prevent pressure on statutory services.
Finally—or almost finally, if I can find my final page, because there are so many bits of paper here—we had, penultimately, Suzy Davies saying that the system must respond to the needs of children, not vice versa; the importance of supporting foster carers, of positive parenting courses, and of access to training and education and gaining qualifications to give every young person a future. David Rowlands—he talked about the number of children subject to care proceedings increasing substantially, and about that the removal of children from the family home should always be a last resort. The removal of a child is devastating not only for the parents, but also grandparents, which we should never forget, and the wider family. And he expressed concern about the family courts sitting in secret.
The Deputy Minister, Julie Morgan, concluded by praising, rightly, the ministerial advisory group ably chaired by David Melding; the importance, however, of not being complacent; the importance of stable placements wherever possible. She said that this area of work is complex, multi-agency, and that, although the looked-after rate has slowed, the numbers are so far unvalidated. She said that we're on a journey of improvement and must sustain momentum, but there's a long way to go. Clearly, these figures and reports are evidence of that. As she agreed, children must be at the centre of this. Of course, we welcome the fact that she said that she will be supporting the motion. So, I'll conclude by calling on everybody to join the Deputy Minister in supporting our motion. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch. Diolch yn fawr iawn i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu. Janet Finch-Saunders a agorodd y ddadl, wrth gwrs, gan ddweud bod y sefyllfa yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd yn llithro allan o reolaeth gyda nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal yn codi 34 y cant dros 15 mlynedd, 6,845 o blant rhwng dim a 18 oed yn derbyn gofal gan awdurdodau lleol ar hyn o bryd, a nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal yng Nghymru ym mhob 10,000 bellach yn llawer uwch nag yn Lloegr a Gogledd Iwerddon, a hefyd yn uwch nag yn yr Alban ar sail y ffigurau diweddaraf a gyhoeddwyd. Soniodd fod y comisiwn cyfiawnder yn amheus ynghylch effeithiolrwydd gwariant yng Nghymru hyd yma ar yr agenda hon, fod angen rhoi blaenoriaeth i ymyrraeth gynnar er mwyn lleihau nifer y plant sy'n cael eu rhoi mewn gofal, a gwella cyfleoedd bywyd. Dywedodd fod plant sy'n cael eu rhoi mewn gofal bum gwaith yn fwy tebygol o ddioddef cyflyrau iechyd meddwl na phlant nad ydynt mewn gofal, ac felly mae angen inni wybod nid yn unig faint sy'n cael ei dargedu tuag at blant sy'n derbyn gofal, ond hefyd sut y mae hyn yn cael ei fonitro. Gyda'r rhai sy'n gadael gofal yn wynebu mwy o risg o ddigartrefedd a thlodi, dywedodd fod angen i'r rhai sy'n gadael gofal gael eiriolwr, ac i awdurdodau lleol a Llywodraeth Cymru nodi a chefnogi plant sy'n derbyn gofal yng Nghymru sy'n gymwys i wneud ceisiadau i'r cynllun preswylio'n sefydlog i ddinasyddion yr UE, rhywbeth y soniodd llawer o bobl amdano, a'r angen i gynorthwyo rhieni sy'n mabwysiadu i gadw brodyr a chwiorydd gyda'i gilydd. Gorffennodd ar nodyn cadarnhaol am obaith i'r dyfodol a gobaith i'r plant hyn.
Cyfeiriodd Siân Gwenllian eto at adroddiad Thomas, fod canran y plant sy'n derbyn gofal yng Nghymru yn uwch nag yn Lloegr a Gogledd Iwerddon, a bod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru ymateb i'r bwlch sy'n ehangu rhwng Cymru a Lloegr. Cyfeiriodd at faterion sy'n dod i'r amlwg, megis llinellau cyffuriau a cham-drin ar-lein, yr angen am ddull amlasiantaethol mewn nifer o feysydd, ac ysgolion a llysoedd yn benodol, a buddsoddi cynaliadwy mewn gwasanaethau ataliol i gadw teuluoedd gyda'i gilydd.
Mynegodd Neil McEvoy nifer o bryderon, gan gynnwys yr angen am gysylltiad—neu bryder ynghylch cyfyngu ar gysylltiad—rhwng plant sydd eisiau gweld rhieni a'u rhieni; y gall rhieni eu hunain fod mewn perygl o wahaniaethu; y dylai plant sy’n gwneud honiadau ynghylch cam-drin gael eu cymryd o ddifrif; a bod angen i ymchwiliadau i gwynion fod yn hollol annibynnol, ac rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â hynny.
Soniodd Mohammad Asghar eto am y Comisiwn ar Gyfiawnder yng Nghymru, gan nodi y bu cynnydd trawiadol yn nifer y plant mewn gofal yng Nghymru ac amrywio eang rhwng awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru, ac yna archwiliodd hynny ymhellach, a'r angen i dorri’r cylch o amddifadedd, lle mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi lansio nifer o raglenni ac wedi buddsoddi'n enfawr yn y rheini, ond nid oes yr un ohonynt hyd yn hyn wedi atal y cynnydd yn nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal.
Cyfeiriodd Rhianon Passmore at y consensws trawsbleidiol cryf i sicrhau bod plant sydd wedi cael profiad o ofal yn cael y gefnogaeth orau sydd ar gael, a phwysigrwydd gwasanaethau ymyrraeth gynnar ac atal. Soniodd Caroline Jones am fuddiannau plant yn cael eu hesgeuluso yn y llysoedd teulu, yr angen i dorri cylch dechrau gwael mewn bywyd yn arwain at gyfleoedd bywyd gwael, ac fel nifer o bobl, cyfeiriodd wedi hynny at waith gwych y Roots Foundation, ac unwaith eto pwysleisiodd y rhan allweddol a chwaraeir gan y sector gwirfoddol, a phwysigrwydd hanfodol buddsoddi yng ngwasanaethau allweddol ymyrraeth gynnar ac atal y sector gwirfoddol er mwyn gwella bywydau a defnyddio arian yn well ac atal pwysau ar wasanaethau statudol.
Yn olaf—neu bron yn olaf, os gallaf ddod o hyd i fy nhudalen olaf, gan fod cymaint o ddarnau o bapur yma—cawsom Suzy Davies, yn olaf ond un, yn dweud bod yn rhaid i'r system ymateb i anghenion plant, nid fel arall; pwysigrwydd cefnogi gofalwyr maeth, cyrsiau rhianta cadarnhaol, a mynediad at hyfforddiant ac addysg, ac ennill cymwysterau i roi dyfodol i bob unigolyn ifanc. Soniodd David Rowlands—dywedodd fod nifer y plant sy'n destun achosion gofal yn cynyddu'n sylweddol, ac y dylai symud plant o'r cartref teuluol fod yn ddewis olaf bob amser. Mae symud plentyn yn ddinistriol nid yn unig i'r rhieni, ond hefyd i neiniau a theidiau, na ddylem byth mo’u hanghofio, a'r teulu ehangach. A mynegodd bryder ynghylch y llysoedd teulu yn eistedd yn gyfrinachol.
Gorffennodd y Dirprwy Weinidog, Julie Morgan, trwy ganmol, yn briodol, grŵp cynghori’r Gweinidog a gadeirir yn fedrus gan David Melding; pwysigrwydd, fodd bynnag, peidio â llaesu dwylo; pwysigrwydd lleoliadau sefydlog lle bynnag y bo modd. Dywedodd fod y maes gwaith hwn yn gymhleth, yn amlasiantaethol, ac er bod y gyfradd sy'n derbyn gofal wedi arafu, mae'r niferoedd heb eu dilysu hyd yn hyn. Dywedodd ein bod ar daith o welliant a bod yn rhaid i ni gadw momentwm, ond mae ffordd bell i fynd. Yn amlwg, mae'r ffigurau a'r adroddiadau hyn yn dystiolaeth o hynny. Fel y cytunodd, rhaid i blant fod yn y canol yn hyn. Wrth gwrs, rydym yn croesawu’r ffaith iddi ddweud y bydd yn cefnogi’r cynnig. Felly, rwyf am gloi trwy alw ar bawb i ymuno â'r Dirprwy Weinidog i gefnogi ein cynnig. Diolch yn fawr.
Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Could be quicker than that. Therefore, we defer voting until voting time.
Diolch. Y cwestiwn yw a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Gallai fod yn gyflymach na hynny. Felly, gohiriwn y bleidlais tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliannau 1 a 2 yn enw Darren Millar.
The following amendments have been selected: amendments 1 and 2 in the name of Darren Millar.
Item 7 on the agenda is the Plaid Cymru debate on eating disorders, and I call on Bethan Sayed to move the motion—Bethan.
Eitem 7 ar yr agenda yw dadl Plaid Cymru ar anhwylderau bwyta, a galwaf ar Bethan Sayed i gyflwyno’r cynnig—Bethan.
Cynnig NDM7288 Siân Gwenllian
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn nodi bod Wythnos Ymwybyddiaeth Anhwylderau Bwyta 2020 yn cael ei chynnal rhwng 2 Mawrth a 8 Mawrth ac y bydd y ffocws eleni ar bwysigrwydd grymuso a chefnogi teuluoedd a chyfeillion.
2. Yn credu:
a) bod anhwylderau bwyta yn salwch meddwl difrifol gyda chyfraddau marwolaeth uchel;
b) bod gwellhad yn bosibl;
c) gall teuluoedd a chyfeillion chwarae rhan hollbwysig wrth gefnogi adferiad.
3. Yn cymeradwyo'r rhai a fu'n gweithio ar yr Adolygiad o'r Gwasanaeth Anhwylderau Bwyta 2018 a lansiwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru ac a gymerodd ran ynddo, ac uchelgais yr adolygiad i greu gwasanaeth anhwylderau bwyta o safon fyd-eang i Gymru, sy'n hygyrch i bawb sydd ei angen.
4. Yn credu y bydd grymuso a chefnogi teuluoedd, ffrindiau a gofalwyr eraill yn hanfodol i wireddu'r uchelgais hwn.
5. Yn gresynu at y cyfnod estynedig o amser a gymerodd Llywodraeth Cymru i ymateb i gasgliadau adolygiad 2018 o'r gwasanaeth.
6. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru a byrddau iechyd, awdurdodau lleol a'r holl randdeiliaid eraill i sicrhau bod argymhellion yr Adolygiad Gwasanaeth Anhwylderau Bwyta 2018 yn cael eu gweithredu'n llawn.
Motion NDM7288 Siân Gwenllian
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Notes that Eating Disorders Awareness Week 2020 takes place from 2 March to 8 March and that the focus this year will be on the importance of empowering and supporting families and friends.
2. Believes that:
a) eating disorders are serious mental illnesses with high mortality rates;
b) recovery is possible;
c) families and friends can play a crucial role in supporting recovery.
3. Commends those that worked on and participated in the Eating Disorder Service Review 2018 launched by the Welsh Government and its ambition to build a world-class eating disorder service for Wales which is accessible to all who need it.
4. Believes that empowering and supporting families, friends and other carers will be essential to realising this ambition.
5. Regrets the extended period of time it took for Welsh Government to respond to the outcome of the 2018 Service Review.
6. Calls on the Welsh Government and health boards, local authorities and all other stakeholders to ensure full implementation of the Eating Disorder Service Review 2018 recommendations.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch. Well, it seems timely to have this debate today, because I started my career in 2007 with starting the cross-party group on eating disorders, and I finish this part of my career before going on maternity leave today with a debate on eating disorders and the eating disorders framework. So, it's an emotional day, and bear with me if I get out of breath or get emotional.
We've had an event today with Beat Cymru to mark Eating Disorders Awareness Week, which is why I wanted to have this debate as well today, because I think that it's an important week that we should be marking every year to ensure that we can try to raise awareness of eating disorder services here in this National Assembly, and also to ensure that we put into place strong Government policies to ensure that we don't continually have to debate it, but that we have strong services in place to ensure that this most pervasive disease is targeted.
It's often driven by a lack of awareness. People say many, many times that it's a diet gone wrong. Enormous pressures that people face in society, from childhood trauma to abuse, to the images that we see on social media every day—we all know it, and we all know that it affects not only women but everybody in society. A general lack of self-esteem or an association with other mental health conditions can obviously intensify that eating disorder.
There are a variety of reasons behind every single case of eating disorder. Not one person I've ever met has had the same instance of an eating disorder. But what I do know is that it has the highest mortality rate of any mental health issue in the UK, and yet we still need to recognise the fact that there is a strong lack of investment, not only here in Wales but in other parts of the UK, and we need to change that.
There are 1.25 million people in the UK living with an eating disorder, but this could be an undercount, because some people simply don't recognise that they have an eating disorder, because, as with other mental health problems, we don't often recognise it in ourselves. And often, and particularly men, they ignore it entirely and they don't know how to then approach people for support.
Treatment is possible and support is possible. But I've had discussions with people who have eating disorders over the years about the word 'recovery' and some people say to me that they will never fully recover from an eating disorder, but what I would say is that the road to recovery is there for us all if we want to embrace it and that we can deal with that eating disorder even if it does stay with us for the rest of our lives.
I'd like to say that there are—[Interruption.] I'm sorry—Nick.
Diolch. Wel, mae'r ddadl hon i’w gweld yn amserol heddiw oherwydd i mi ddechrau fy ngyrfa yn 2007 gyda dechrau'r grŵp trawsbleidiol ar anhwylderau bwyta, ac rwy'n gorffen y rhan hon o fy ngyrfa cyn mynd ar gyfnod mamolaeth heddiw gyda dadl ar anhwylderau bwyta a'r fframwaith anhwylderau bwyta. Felly, mae'n ddiwrnod emosiynol, a byddwch yn amyneddgar os ydw i'n mynd yn fyr o anadl neu'n emosiynol.
Cawsom ddigwyddiad heddiw gyda Beat Cymru i nodi Wythnos Ymwybyddiaeth Anhwylderau Bwyta, a dyna pam roeddwn i eisiau cael y ddadl hon heddiw, oherwydd credaf ei bod hi'n wythnos bwysig y dylem ei nodi bob blwyddyn i sicrhau y gallwn geisio codi ymwybyddiaeth o wasanaethau anhwylderau bwyta yma yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, a hefyd i sicrhau ein bod yn rhoi polisïau Llywodraeth cryf ar waith i sicrhau nad oes raid inni ei drafod yn barhaus, ond bod gennym wasanaethau cryf ar waith i sicrhau ein bod yn targedu’r clefyd hollbresennol hwn.
Yn aml caiff ei yrru gan ddiffyg ymwybyddiaeth. Mae pobl yn dweud yn aml iawn mai deiet wedi mynd o'i le ydyw. Mae pobl yn wynebu pwysau enfawr mewn cymdeithas, o drawma yn ystod plentyndod i gamdriniaeth, i'r lluniau a welwn ar gyfryngau cymdeithasol bob dydd—mae pawb ohonom yn gwybod amdano, ac mae pawb ohonom yn gwybod ei fod yn effeithio nid yn unig ar fenywod ond ar bawb yn y gymdeithas. Gall diffyg hunan-barch cyffredinol neu gysylltiad â chyflyrau iechyd meddwl eraill ddwysau'r anhwylder bwyta hwnnw wrth gwrs.
Mae yna nifer o resymau y tu ôl i bob achos unigol o anhwylder bwyta. Nid oes neb a gyfarfûm erioed wedi cael yr un enghraifft yn union o anhwylder bwyta. Ond rwy’n gwybod mai dyma’r broblem iechyd meddwl sydd â’r gyfradd uchaf o farwolaethau yn y DU, ac eto mae angen inni ddal i gydnabod y ffaith bod diffyg buddsoddiad enbyd, nid yma yng Nghymru yn unig ond mewn rhannau eraill o’r DU, ac mae angen inni newid hynny.
Mae 1.25 miliwn o bobl yn y DU yn byw gydag anhwylder bwyta, ond gallai hwn fod yn dangyfrif, oherwydd yn syml iawn, nid yw rhai pobl yn cydnabod bod ganddynt anhwylder bwyta, oherwydd fel gyda phroblemau iechyd meddwl eraill, yn aml ni fyddwn yn ei adnabod ynom ein hunain. Ac yn aml, ac yn enwedig dynion, maent yn ei anwybyddu'n llwyr ac nid ydynt yn gwybod sut i droi at bobl i ofyn am gefnogaeth.
Mae triniaeth yn bosibl ac mae cymorth yn bosibl. Ond cefais drafodaethau gyda phobl sydd ag anhwylderau bwyta dros y blynyddoedd ynglŷn â'r gair 'adferiad' ac mae rhai pobl yn dweud wrthyf na fyddant byth yn gwella'n llwyr o anhwylder bwyta, ond yr hyn y buaswn yn ei ddweud yw bod y ffordd i wellhad yno i bawb ohonom os ydym am ei dilyn ac y gallwn ymdopi ag anhwylder bwyta hyd yn oed os yw'n aros gyda ni am weddill ein hoes.
Hoffwn ddweud bod—[Torri ar draws.] Mae'n ddrwg gennyf—Nick.
Daeth Joyce Watson i’r Gadair.
Joyce Watson took the Chair.
You just took me back to 2007, and I think your cross-party group on eating disorders was one of the first CPGs that I attended, and you brought a young man along with you to that meeting who had been suffering from an eating disorder. So, I think the point you made there, about, often, men don't want to own up to the fact that they've got an eating disorder or a wider mental health issue, is a particular problem. So, perhaps that's something that can be addressed moving forward, so that that big chunk of people who don't report do actually come forward and say—hold their hand and say, 'Hey, I've actually got a problem.'
Rydych chi newydd fynd â mi yn ôl i 2007, a chredaf fod eich grŵp trawsbleidiol ar anhwylderau bwyta yn un o'r grwpiau trawsbleidiol cyntaf i mi eu mynychu, a daethoch â dyn ifanc gyda chi i'r cyfarfod hwnnw a oedd wedi bod yn dioddef o anhwylder bwyta. Felly, rwy'n credu bod y pwynt a wnaethoch, fod dynion yn aml yn amharod i gyfaddef bod ganddynt anhwylder bwyta neu broblem iechyd meddwl ehangach, yn broblem benodol. Felly, efallai fod hynny'n rhywbeth y gellir mynd i'r afael ag ef wrth symud ymlaen, fel bod y nifer fawr o bobl nad ydynt wedi’u cofnodi yn camu ymlaen ac yn dweud—dal eu llaw a dweud, 'Hei, mae gennyf broblem.'
Thank you for coming to that first meeting, Nick. I think you were talking about James Downs, actually, who has been an amazing campaigner. He's moved to England now and he's doing exactly the same type of campaigning that he did here there. So, he has a mountain to climb, but he is very much still involved, and I think it's very important that we do encourage those people to come forward.
The issue, I think, for many people is that the wait is often dangerously long and the provision of services is patchy in many areas. In some areas they're very good, but others almost non-existent—if we look at mid Wales, it's very hard to get access to those services. And what we do need is more consistent support—when they have access to those services in the community, many people say that they don't have those support groups to go to afterwards, where they can meet other people and they can share their experiences with other people.
So, in 2018, Dr Jacinta Tan led the Welsh Government's eating disorders framework review. This was the review that we campaigned for back in 2007 and which Edwina Hart, as the current Minister, put in place at the time. And then we campaigned for the review to happen in November 2018. To be fair to Jacinta Tan, the review was very strong, very robust, and had involvement from carers, patients and their families, and they felt engaged and involved in the process. My only regret at the time was that the Welsh Government took quite a long time to come up with any ideas as to how they were going to put that review into place, and I think we would be urging the Welsh Government here today to tell us how they're going to implement the changes in the review to make this a reality.
Waiting times—many, many other conditions are an issue here. We know from the patient episode database for Wales that NHS wait times are on top of the often extensive time that it takes many people to come forward and seek help for their condition. So, this could be up to at least three years. So, in the service review, a maximum wait is recommended of four weeks for non-urgent referrals and one week for urgent referrals. Yet, this is far, far from the reality of what is happening at the moment. What's concerning is that the Welsh Government seem, as I said, far away from implementing it, so I'd like to know when they are going to do that.
So, whilst waiting times are a problem, so too is access. And I've lost count of the amount of times people have told me that they are not able to access services at a speedy time, so that they can, then, treat their eating disorder.
And then many of them—. I don't want to criticise health professionals overtly, but we do know that, if you do go to your general practitioner—they're not specialists, but they don't know, sometimes, who to refer a patient to, they don't know what the processes are. So, I think much more training in that regard is needed. And then the review talks about an all-age approach to service delivery, which would take out some of the challenges that transition between child and adolescent mental health services and adult services often pose. I don't want to take up all my time before I'm able to sum up; I realise I'm going slower than usual.
I did hear from the ambassador for Beat, Zoe John, here today who said that she was deemed to be not thin enough to get treatment, and I think that is absolutely criminal. We need to review the BMI, even if you don't want to scrap it. I think if I was in Government I'd scrap it, because, even if you don't go in with an eating disorder, you may come out with an eating disorder because you're told that you're overweight or that you need to do certain things with your lifestyle even though you may be doing those things already, and I think that's key to look at and wasn't actually addressed in this eating disorders review.
There are so many stories that people have told me, but it's been a privilege to lead on the eating disorders cross-party group and I hope that you'll take the mantle forward while I'm away and make sure that the Welsh Government does implement the changes to the review so that I can come back and I can be—well, I won't have much to do then. [Laughter.] So, I'm not going to have to time to react to you; you'll have to bring in someone else. But diolch yn fawr iawn.
Diolch am ddod i'r cyfarfod cyntaf hwnnw, Nick. Rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n siarad am James Downs sydd wedi bod yn ymgyrchydd anhygoel. Mae wedi symud i Loegr bellach ac mae'n gwneud yr un math o ymgyrchu ag y gwnaeth yma. Felly, mae ganddo fynydd i'w ddringo, ond mae'n dal i chwarae rhan fawr, ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig iawn ein bod yn annog y bobl hynny i gamu ymlaen.
Y broblem i lawer o bobl, rwy’n credu, yw bod yr aros yn aml yn beryglus o hir a bod y ddarpariaeth o wasanaethau yn dameidiog mewn sawl ardal. Mewn rhai ardaloedd maent yn dda iawn, ond mewn ardaloedd eraill, prin eu bod yn bodoli—os edrychwn ar ganolbarth Cymru, mae'n anodd iawn cael mynediad at y gwasanaethau hynny. A’r hyn sydd ei angen arnom yw cymorth mwy cyson—pan fydd ganddynt fynediad at y gwasanaethau hynny yn y gymuned, dywed llawer o bobl nad oes ganddynt grwpiau cefnogi i fynd iddynt wedyn, lle gallant gyfarfod â phobl eraill a gallant rannu eu profiadau gyda phobl eraill.
Yn 2018 arweiniodd Dr Jacinta Tan adolygiad fframwaith anhwylderau bwyta Llywodraeth Cymru. Hwn oedd yr adolygiad y buom yn ymgyrchu amdano yn ôl yn 2007, adolygiad a roddwyd ar waith gan Edwina Hart, fel y Gweinidog ar y pryd. Ac yna fe wnaethom ymgyrchu i'r adolygiad ddigwydd ym mis Tachwedd 2018. I fod yn deg â Jacinta Tan, roedd yr adolygiad yn gryf iawn, yn gadarn iawn, ac roedd gofalwyr, cleifion a'u teuluoedd wedi cymryd rhan ynddo, a theimlent eu bod yn cael eu cynnwys ac yn rhan o'r broses. Yr unig beth a berai bryder i mi ar y pryd oedd bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cymryd amser eithaf hir i gynnig unrhyw syniadau ynglŷn â sut y byddent yn gweithredu'r adolygiad hwnnw, a chredaf y byddem yn annog Llywodraeth Cymru yma heddiw i ddweud wrthym sut y bwriadant roi'r newidiadau yn yr adolygiad ar waith i'w wireddu.
Amserau aros—mae llawer o gyflyrau eraill yn broblem yma. Gwyddom o gronfa ddata cyfnodau cleifion Cymru fod amseroedd aros y GIG yn ychwanegol at yr amser helaeth y mae’n aml yn ei gymryd i lawer o bobl gamu ymlaen a gofyn am gymorth ar gyfer eu cyflwr. Felly, gallai hyn olygu aros hyd at dair blynedd fan lleiaf. Felly, yn yr adolygiad o’r gwasanaeth, argymhellir na ddylid aros mwy na phedair wythnos ar gyfer atgyfeiriadau nad ydynt yn rhai brys ac un wythnos ar gyfer atgyfeiriadau brys. Ac eto, mae hyn ymhell iawn o’r hyn sy’n digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Mae’n destun pryder, fel y dywedais, fod Llywodraeth Cymru i’w gweld yn bell iawn o'i weithredu, felly hoffwn wybod pryd y maent yn mynd i wneud hynny.
Felly, er bod yr amseroedd aros yn broblem, mae mynediad yn broblem hefyd. Ac rwyf wedi colli cyfrif ar y nifer o weithiau mae pobl wedi dweud wrthyf na allant fanteisio ar wasanaethau’n ddigon cyflym iddynt allu trin eu hanhwylder bwyta.
Ac mae nifer ohonynt—. Nid wyf am feirniadu gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol yn benodol, ond rydym yn gwybod, os ewch at eich meddyg teulu—nid ydynt yn arbenigwyr, ond nid ydynt yn gwybod, weithiau, at bwy i atgyfeirio claf, nid ydynt yn gwybod beth yw'r prosesau. Felly, rwy'n credu bod angen llawer mwy o hyfforddiant yn hynny o beth. Ac yna sonia'r adolygiad am ddull o ddarparu gwasanaethau ar gyfer pob oedran a fyddai’n dileu rhai o’r heriau y mae trosglwyddo rhwng gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl plant a’r glasoed a gwasanaethau oedolion yn aml yn eu hachosi. Nid wyf am i fy amser ddod i ben cyn i mi allu crynhoi; rwy'n sylweddoli fy mod yn mynd yn arafach nag arfer.
Fe glywais gan lysgennad Beat, Zoe John, yma heddiw a ddywedodd eu bod wedi barnu nad oedd hi'n ddigon tenau i gael triniaeth, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n gwbl anfaddeuol. Mae angen inni adolygu'r BMI, hyd yn oed os nad ydych am ei ddileu. Pe bawn i'n aelod o'r Llywodraeth, buaswn yn ei ddileu, oherwydd hyd yn oed os na fydd gennych anhwylder bwyta ar y cychwyn, gallech gael anhwylder bwyta am eu bod yn dweud wrthych eich bod yn rhy drwm neu fod angen i chi wneud pethau penodol i'ch ffordd o fyw er eich bod yn gwneud hynny'n barod efallai, ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n allweddol inni edrych ar hynny, ac ni chafodd sylw yn yr adolygiad hwn o anhwylderau bwyta.
Ceir cymaint o straeon y mae pobl wedi'u dweud wrthyf, ond bu'n fraint cael arwain y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar anhwylderau bwyta ac rwy'n gobeithio y byddwch yn bwrw ymlaen â'r gwaith tra byddaf oddi yma ac yn sicrhau bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithredu'r newidiadau i'r adolygiad fel y gallaf ddod yn ôl ac y gallaf fod—wel, ni fydd gennyf lawer i'w wneud bryd hynny. [Chwerthin.] Felly, ni chaf amser i ymateb i chi; bydd yn rhaid i chi ddod â rhywun arall i mewn. Ond diolch yn fawr iawn.
I have selected the two amendments to the motion and I call on Angela Burns to move the amendments, 1 and 2, in the name of Darren Millar.
Rwyf wedi dethol y ddau welliant i'r cynnig a galwaf ar Angela Burns i gynnig y gwelliannau, 1 a 2, yn enw Darren Millar.
Gwelliant 1—Darren Millar
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ôl pwynt 5 ac ailrifo yn unol â hynny:
Yn gresynu ymhellach at yr amser i ddatblygu amseroedd aros am wasanaethau i oedolion a gwasanaethau plant a amlinellir yn ymateb y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ar 26 Medi 2019.
Amendment 1—Darren Millar
Add as new point after point 5 and renumber accordingly:
Further regrets the length of time to develop waiting times for adult and child services outlined in the Minister for Health and Social Service's response on 26 September 2019.
Gwelliant 2—Darren Millar
Ym mhwynt 6, ar ôl 'i sicrhau' ychwanegu 'ar frys'.
Amendment 2—Darren Millar
In point 6, after ‘stakeholders to’ insert ‘urgently’.
Cynigiwyd gwelliannau 1 a 2.
Amendments 1 and 2 moved.
Thank you very much indeed, acting Deputy Presiding Officer. And Bethan Sayed, I'd like to give you fair warning that, if you think that once your little bundle of joy has disappeared—been delivered—you're going to have less to do, you are sadly mistaken. [Laughter.] But it is going to be a great ride, and I wish you all the well. We on the Welsh Conservatives benches would like to thank you very much for all you have done here in the Assembly in driving forward this very, very important area, because important it is. It affects so many people, not just those who have a condition of eating disorders, but also the families and the friends. You have very neatly taken away an awful lot of the things I wanted to say.
We support the motion absolutely, but we will oppose it in order to get our amendment heard. The reason we want to get our amendment heard is we actually believe that we're calling on Welsh Government to stop talking the talk—now the Deputy Minister needs to walk the walk and we need to see the movement and get the eating disorder service. It says it all in here; I don't need to repeat it. We just need to do what it says and we need to say it now.
Time is vital. Early detection and intervention is an underlying principle of this review, and it is recognised by all the professionals that early intervention is so important. And yet I have constituents who wait literally years from the onset of their eating disorder through to beginning to get any kind of treatment. And, if they are lucky enough to access the treatment, then very often it's only for six weeks. Well, what on earth is six weeks going to do when you actually need mental health support and understanding to undertake a very, very long journey?
Waiting times are not just lengthy, but it's also about getting that day and that residential treatment. And I've had constituents—parents—come to me and say that their GP said to them, 'Your best bet is to nip up to the Priory in London, or go to Clouds'—or whatever it's called—'in Wiltshire.' Well, that's no answer, is it? Because your loved one needs to have residential support to get them through this, and we need to really have a look at this.
The one point I want to pick up is the whole area of GPs having more experience during their training of all mental health issues, including eating disorders. I speak from within the experience of my own personal canvas, within my family, when the message has been, 'Pull yourself together', and, 'It's a phase she's going through.' You know—yes, phases are what you go through when you grow from size 5ft 3 to 5ft 4. You can call that a phase, but eating disorders aren't a phase. I think that we really need to ensure that general practitioners, because they are the front line, understand that all mental health issues need to be treated well, and that eating disorders is a proper thing, it's a condition, it's a disease. And if you can help someone manage it and learn to live with it and control it and hopefully conquer it, then they will have such a better outcome in life.
So, one of the things I really want to drive forward is that additional training of GPs, in rotation, in the community, in rotation, in mental health services and understanding the importance of it. Thank you once again for bringing this debate forward—and good luck, you're going to have a great time.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd dros dro. A Bethan Sayed, hoffwn roi rhybudd teg i chi, os ydych yn credu, pan fydd eich bwndel bach o lawenydd wedi dod i'r byd, y bydd gennych lai i'w wneud, rydych chi'n camgymryd yn arw. [Chwerthin.] Ond mae'n mynd i fod yn daith wych, ac rwy'n dymuno'r gorau i chi. Hoffem ni, ar feinciau'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, ddiolch yn fawr i chi am bopeth a wnaethoch yma yn y Cynulliad ar ddatblygu'r maes pwysig hwn, oherwydd mae'n bwysig. Mae'n effeithio ar gynifer o bobl, nid yn unig y rheini sydd â chyflwr o anhwylderau bwyta, ond hefyd y teuluoedd a'r ffrindiau. Rydych chi wedi dweud llawer iawn o'r pethau roeddwn i eisiau eu dweud a hynny'n daclus iawn.
Rydym yn cefnogi'r cynnig yn llwyr, ond byddwn yn ei wrthwynebu er mwyn cael ein gwelliant wedi'i glywed. Y rheswm pam ein bod am gael ein gwelliant wedi'i glywed yw ein bod yn credu ein bod yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i roi'r gorau i siarad gwag—mae angen i'r Dirprwy Weinidog weithredu bellach ac mae angen inni weld symud ar hyn a chael gwasanaeth anhwylderau bwyta. Mae'n dweud y cyfan yn y fan hon; nid oes angen i mi ei ailadrodd. Y cyfan sydd angen inni ei wneud yw gwneud yr hyn y mae'n ei ddweud ac mae angen inni ei ddweud yn awr.
Mae amser yn hollbwysig. Mae canfod ac ymyrryd yn gynnar yn un o egwyddorion sylfaenol yr adolygiad hwn, ac mae'r holl weithwyr proffesiynol yn cydnabod bod ymyrraeth gynnar mor bwysig. Ac eto, mae gennyf etholwyr sy'n aros am flynyddoedd yn llythrennol ar ôl i'w hanhwylder bwyta ddechrau cyn iddynt ddechrau cael unrhyw fath o driniaeth. Ac os ydynt yn ddigon lwcus i gael triniaeth, yn aml iawn ni fydd ond yn para am chwe wythnos. Wel, beth ar y ddaear y mae chwe wythnos yn mynd i'w wneud pan fydd angen cymorth a dealltwriaeth iechyd meddwl arnoch i fynd ar daith hir iawn?
Mae'r amseroedd aros yn hir, ond mae'n ymwneud hefyd â chael y diwrnod hwnnw a'r driniaeth breswyl. Ac rwyf wedi cael etholwyr—rhieni—yn dod ataf ac yn dweud bod eu meddyg teulu wedi dweud wrthynt, 'Eich bet gorau yw mynd i'r Priory yn Llundain, neu i Clouds'—neu beth bynnag yw ei enw—'yn Wiltshire.' Wel, nid yw hwnnw'n ateb. Oherwydd mae angen cymorth preswyl ar y sawl rydych chi'n pryderu amdanynt i'w cael drwy hyn, ac mae gwir angen inni edrych ar hyn.
Yr un pwynt rwyf am fynd ar ei drywydd yw'r holl faes sy'n ymwneud â rhoi mwy o brofiad o bob mater iechyd meddwl i feddygon teulu yn ystod eu hyfforddiant, gan gynnwys anhwylderau bwyta. Rwy'n siarad o fy mhrofiad personol fy hun, o fewn fy nheulu, pan glywyd y neges, 'Tynnwch eich hun at eich gilydd', a 'Mynd drwy gyfnod y mae hi.' Wyddoch chi—ie, cyfnodau yw'r hyn rydych chi'n mynd drwyddynt pan fyddwch chi'n tyfu o fod yn 5 troedfedd 3 modfedd i fod yn 5 troedfedd 4 modfedd. Gallwch alw hwnnw'n gyfnod, ond nid yw anhwylderau bwyta'n gyfnod. Credaf fod gwir angen inni sicrhau bod meddygon teulu, am mai hwy yw'r rheng flaen, yn deall bod angen i bob problem iechyd meddwl gael ei thrin yn dda, a bod anhwylderau bwyta yn rhywbeth go iawn, mae'n gyflwr, mae'n glefyd. Ac os gallwch helpu rhywun i ymdopi a dysgu byw gydag ef a'i reoli a'i goncro, gobeithio, fe gânt ganlyniad cymaint yn well mewn bywyd.
Felly, un o'r pethau rwyf o ddifrif eisiau ei hyrwyddo yw hyfforddiant ychwanegol o'r fath i feddygon teulu, wedi'i gylchdroi yn y gymuned, wedi'i gylchdroi mewn gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl a deall ei bwysigrwydd. Diolch i chi unwaith eto am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon—a phob lwc, fe gewch amser gwych.
I now call on Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Galwaf yn awr ar Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Cadeirydd. Mi es i i'r digwyddiad amser cinio heddiw yma yn y Senedd, wedi'i drefnu i nodi Wythnos Ymwybyddiaeth Anhwylderau Bwyta, wedi'i drefnu gan y grŵp Beat, ac wedi'i noddi gan Bethan Sayed. A gaf i ddweud wrthych chi mor falch ydw i fy mod i wedi mynd i'r digwyddiad hwnnw ac i allu gwrando ar ferched ifanc yn egluro mor huawdl sut oedd eu bywydau nhw wedi cael eu taro gan anhwylderau bwyta: y pwysau i gydymffurfio yn y lle cyntaf o ran siâp eu cyrff neu eu hedrychiad; y diffyg dealltwriaeth ac ymwybyddiaeth oedd ganddyn nhw o'r peryg y gallan nhw syrthio i drap anhwylderau bwyta; sut doedden nhw ddim wedi sylweddoli bod problem yn datblygu arnyn nhw tan fod y broblem honno wedi troi yn un ddifrifol; a sut roedd yr ymateb i'w cri nhw am help, neu eu cais am gymorth gan y gwasanaeth iechyd, wedi bod yn annerbyniol o wael?
Ac mae hynny yn sicr yn fy argyhoeddi i y dylem ni fod yn cymryd anhwylderau bwyta yn llawer iawn mwy o ddifrif nag rydym ni wedi bod yn eu cymryd nhw o ran yr angen am frys. A dyna, mewn difrif, ydy gofyniad Beat a'r merched ifanc yna wnes i glywed ganddyn nhw heddiw yma—i weithredu efo brys. Ac mae'r cyfarwyddiadau ar beth ddylen ni fod yn ei wneud gennym ni, achos mae'r adolygiad wedi cael ei gynnal. Yr hyn rydym ni'n ei ofyn amdano fo, yn syml iawn, ydy gweithredu'r hyn a ddaeth allan o'r adolygiad hwnnw.
Cael gwasanaethau o safon sydd eu hangen ar fechgyn a merched sydd yn dioddef o'r salwch meddwl yma; sicrhau bod yna gysondeb mewn gwasanaethau ar draws Cymru; sicrhau ein bod ni'n datblygu ffyrdd o fonitro'r gofal sydd yn cael ei roi; sicrhau bod staffio yn cael sylw digonol, a bod y cyllidebau yno mewn lle ar lefel ein byrddau iechyd ni i weithredu system sydd yn briodol; a sicrhau ein bod ni'n dysgu ein meddygon ifanc ni ynglŷn ag anhwylderau bwyta, a bod yna fwy o amser na'r llai na dwy awr sy'n cael ei gynnig i feddygon ifanc yn eu hyfforddiant ar hyn o bryd, a bod yr amser yna yn cael ei gynyddu fel bod yna ddealltwriaeth ymhlith y gweithlu iechyd drwyddo draw ynglŷn â difrifoldeb hyn.
Mae'r patrwm yna yn dilyn yr adolygiad. Gadewch inni, drwy'r ddadl fer yma heddiw yma, wneud y pwynt fel Senedd ein bod ni'n disgwyl i'r argymhellion yna gael eu gweithredu, a hynny ar frys, er mwyn ein pobl ifanc ni.
Thank you very much, Chair. I went to the event over lunch today in the Senedd, arranged to mark Eating Disorder Awareness Week, organised by Beat, and sponsored by Bethan Sayed. May I tell you how pleased I am that I went to that event, to be able to listen to young women explaining so eloquently how their lives were impacted by eating disorders: the pressure to conform in the first instance in terms of their body shape or their appearance; the lack of understanding and awareness that they had of the danger that they could fall into the trap of an eating disorder; how they hadn't realised that a problem was developing for them until that problem had turned into a serious one; and how the response to their cry for help, or for assistance from the health service, had been unacceptably poor?
That convinces me certainly that we should be taking eating disorders far more seriously than we have been taking them in terms of the need for urgent action. That is the cry from Beat and the young women that I heard from today—namely, to take urgent action. And the guidance on what we have to do is already with us. What we are asking for, very simply, is to take action on what emanated from the eating disorder service review.
Having high quality services that are required by young men and women who suffer from this mental illness; ensuring that there's consistency in services across Wales; ensuring that we develop ways of monitoring the care that is provided; ensuring that staffing levels are given adequate attention, and that funding is in place on a health board level to implement a system that is appropriate; and ensuring that we teach our young doctors with regard to eating disorders, and that there is more time given than the less than two hours that is provided in training for medics at the moment, and that that period is increased so that there is an awareness amongst the health workforce as a whole about the seriousness of this issue.
That pattern does follow the review. Let us, through this brief debate today, make the point as a Senedd that we expect these recommendations to be implemented, as a matter of urgency, for the sake of our young people.
I now call on the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services, Julie Morgan.
Galwaf yn awr ar y Dirprwy Weinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Julie Morgan.
Thank you. I'd like to thank Bethan for bringing this debate today, and also use the opportunity to thank her for all the work that she's done in this field, and how she's made it a really important area of work for the Assembly, and for all her work with the all-party group, and to wish you all the best for the future.
I'm really pleased to have an opportunity today to draw attention to Eating Disorder Awareness Week and to emphasise the work that's being done to improve the eating disorder service in Wales. I absolutely accept that eating disorders are serious conditions that affect not only those with the condition, but can have a huge impact on the lives of families and friends. And friends and families are often instrumental in the holistic care of those with eating disorders, and it's fitting that there is an emphasis this week on empowering and supporting these friends and families.
I would like to join AMs in commending those who've worked and participated in the eating disorder service review. As Bethan said, in 2018, the Minister for Health and Social Services commissioned Dr Jacinta Tan of Swansea University to review eating disorder services in Wales and to determine what changes need to be made to improve services and outcomes.
I know—and I think Bethan did say this at the beginning—that the experience of those with eating disorders and their families was absolutely central to Dr Tan's conclusions, and I'm personally grateful for the investment that these people have made towards improving eating disorder services in Wales. I know it can be very difficult—Rhun very vividly described the young women who contributed to the event at lunch time. I think it's absolutely vital that the human struggles that are going on for people in Wales are absolutely central to policy decisions. I was also very stuck by what Bethan said about—I think it was Zoe John who said that she was not thin enough. The review is quite clear that patients who require treatment should never be told that they're not ill enough. I absolutely fully agree with that.
Dr Tan's review provides a wide-ranging analysis of current eating disorder services and made a number of significant recommendations that reflect what services could achieve in the longer term. The review talks about the role of friends and families in participating in treatment: being allies of therapists and motivating their loved ones. It also acknowledges the emotional, financial and occupational sacrifices that are made to support friends and family.
The review recommends that the needs and perspectives of families of those with eating disorders should be considered within the development of policy and the design of services, and involved in the treatment of their loved ones. I fully support this principle and expect this, along with other principles underpinning the review, to shape the development of eating disorder services in Wales.
The Minister for Health and Social Services wrote to health boards setting out the actions he expects to be taken in response to the review: reconfiguring services towards earlier intervention; working towards achieving NICE standards for eating disorders within two years; and developing plans to achieve a four-week waiting time within two years. Welsh Government have received submissions from all health boards setting out the suggested approach to achieving these targets while ensuring that longer term planning aligns with the ambition of the review.
It's clear that extra funding will be necessary in order to start to deliver the level of services needed in Wales, and officials are currently developing an approach to funding that will enable progress to be made. I know that many people would like to see this happen at a greater pace and I think that's been the theme of the contributions here today, but this has been a significant review, which does require detailed analysis. It has been necessary to engage with clinicians to test the recommendations and to ensure that we move forward in a way that takes account of the progress that's already been made in many areas. And to support this progress, the Minister for Health and Social Services announced that there will be a national resource to ensure that the progress seen in some parts of the country can be made across Wales, because the issue of the services being piecemeal across Wales was another very important point that was made.
While it is important for health boards to deliver services within their areas, we do need to ensure that people living in Wales can expect excellent treatment for eating disorders, wherever they live. The changes we are working towards are ambitious and do reflect the scale of the challenge we face, and these changes will not happen overnight. The work undertaken by professionals, those with eating disorders, and their families to develop the review has been instrumental in determining the steps being taken forward to improve services in Wales. So, there is a clear plan ahead.
I'd like to end, really, by thanking Bethan for contributing to the situation that we have got. We've got a clear plan that we're working towards, but it is complex and it will take time. But, as you heard in my speech, there are time limits given to reach the situation that we want to be in.
Diolch. Hoffwn ddiolch i Bethan am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon heddiw, a defnyddio'r cyfle hefyd i ddiolch iddi am yr holl waith y mae wedi'i wneud yn y maes hwn, a'r modd y mae hi wedi'i wneud yn faes gwaith pwysig iawn i'r Cynulliad, ac am ei holl waith gyda'r grŵp trawsbleidiol, ac i ddymuno'r gorau i chi ar gyfer y dyfodol.
Rwy'n falch iawn o gael cyfle heddiw i dynnu sylw at Wythnos Ymwybyddiaeth o Anhwylderau Bwyta ac i bwysleisio'r gwaith sy'n cael ei wneud i wella'r gwasanaeth anhwylderau bwyta yng Nghymru. Rwy'n derbyn yn llwyr fod anhwylderau bwyta'n gyflyrau difrifol sy'n effeithio nid yn unig ar y rhai sydd â'r cyflwr, ond y gallant gael effaith enfawr ar fywydau teuluoedd a chyfeillion. Ac mae ffrindiau a theuluoedd yn aml yn allweddol yng ngofal holistaidd y rhai sydd ag anhwylderau bwyta, ac mae'n addas fod pwyslais yr wythnos hon ar rymuso a chefnogi'r ffrindiau a'r teuluoedd hyn.
Hoffwn ymuno ag Aelodau'r Cynulliad i ganmol y rhai sydd wedi gweithio a chymryd rhan yn adolygiad y gwasanaeth anhwylderau bwyta. Fel y dywedodd Bethan, yn 2018, comisiynodd y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol Dr Jacinta Tan o Brifysgol Abertawe i adolygu gwasanaethau anhwylderau bwyta yng Nghymru ac i benderfynu pa newidiadau y mae angen eu gwneud er mwyn gwella gwasanaethau a chanlyniadau.
Rwy'n gwybod—a chredaf fod Bethan wedi dweud hyn ar y dechrau—fod profiad y rhai sydd ag anhwylderau bwyta a'u teuluoedd yn gwbl ganolog i gasgliadau Dr Tan, ac rwy'n ddiolchgar yn bersonol am y buddsoddiad y mae'r bobl hyn wedi'i wneud tuag at wella gwasanaethau anhwylderau bwyta yng Nghymru. Rwy'n gwybod y gall fod yn anodd iawn—disgrifiodd Rhun yn fyw iawn y menywod ifanc a gyfrannodd at y digwyddiad amser cinio. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn gwbl hanfodol fod y brwydrau y mae pobl yng Nghymru yn eu hwynebu yn gwbl ganolog i benderfyniadau polisi. Cefais fy nharo hefyd gan yr hyn a ddywedodd Bethan am—rwy'n credu mai Zoe John a ddywedodd nad oedd hi'n ddigon tenau. Mae'r adolygiad yn eithaf clir na ddylid ar unrhyw gyfrif ddweud wrth gleifion sydd angen triniaeth nad ydynt yn ddigon sâl. Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â hynny.
Mae adolygiad Dr Tan yn darparu dadansoddiad eang o wasanaethau anhwylderau bwyta cyfredol a gwnaeth nifer o argymhellion pwysig sy'n adlewyrchu'r hyn y gallai gwasanaethau ei gyflawni yn fwy hirdymor. Mae'r adolygiad yn sôn am rôl ffrindiau a theuluoedd yn cyfranogi yn y driniaeth: yn bod yn gynghreiriaid i therapyddion a chymell eu hanwyliaid. Mae hefyd yn cydnabod yr aberth emosiynol, ariannol a galwedigaethol a wneir i gefnogi ffrindiau a theulu.
Mae'r adolygiad yn argymell y dylid ystyried anghenion a safbwyntiau teuluoedd y rhai sydd ag anhwylderau bwyta wrth ddatblygu polisi a llunio gwasanaethau, a'u cynnwys yn nhriniaeth eu hanwyliaid. Rwy'n cefnogi'r egwyddor hon yn llwyr ac yn disgwyl i hyn, ynghyd ag egwyddorion eraill sy'n sail i'r adolygiad, lywio datblygiad gwasanaethau anhwylderau bwyta yng Nghymru.
Ysgrifennodd y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol at y byrddau iechyd yn nodi'r camau y mae'n disgwyl iddynt gael eu cymryd mewn ymateb i'r adolygiad: ad-drefnu gwasanaethau tuag at ymyrraeth gynharach; gweithio tuag at gyflawni safonau NICE ar gyfer anhwylderau bwyta o fewn dwy flynedd; a datblygu cynlluniau i gyrraedd targed amser aros o bedair wythnos o fewn dwy flynedd. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn sylwadau gan bob bwrdd iechyd yn nodi dull awgrymedig ar gyfer cyflawni'r targedau hyn gan sicrhau bod cynlluniau mwy hirdymor yn cyd-fynd ag uchelgais yr adolygiad.
Mae'n amlwg y bydd angen cyllid ychwanegol er mwyn dechrau darparu'r lefel o wasanaethau sydd eu hangen yng Nghymru, ac mae swyddogion wrthi'n datblygu dull o ariannu a fydd yn ein galluogi i wneud cynnydd. Gwn y byddai llawer o bobl yn hoffi gweld hyn yn digwydd yn gyflymach ac rwy'n credu mai dyna oedd thema'r cyfraniadau yma heddiw, ond mae hwn wedi bod yn adolygiad sylweddol, sy'n galw am ei ddadansoddi'n fanwl. Bu'n rhaid ymgysylltu â chlinigwyr i brofi'r argymhellion a sicrhau ein bod yn symud ymlaen mewn ffordd sy'n ystyried y cynnydd a wnaed eisoes mewn sawl maes. Ac i gefnogi'r cynnydd hwn, cyhoeddodd y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol y bydd adnodd cenedlaethol ar gael i sicrhau bod modd gwneud y cynnydd a welir mewn rhai rhannau o'r wlad ar draws Cymru, oherwydd roedd y broblem fod y gwasanaethau'n dameidiog ar draws Cymru'n bwynt pwysig arall a wnaethpwyd.
Er ei bod yn bwysig i fyrddau iechyd ddarparu gwasanaethau yn eu hardaloedd, mae angen inni sicrhau bod pobl sy'n byw yng Nghymru yn gallu disgwyl triniaeth ragorol ar gyfer anhwylderau bwyta, lle bynnag y maent yn byw. Mae'r newidiadau rydym yn gweithio tuag atynt yn uchelgeisiol ac yn adlewyrchu maint yr her sy'n ein hwynebu, ac ni fydd y newidiadau hyn yn digwydd dros nos. Mae'r gwaith a wnaed gan weithwyr proffesiynol, y rhai ag anhwylderau bwyta a'u teuluoedd ar ddatblygu'r adolygiad wedi bod yn allweddol ar gyfer pennu'r camau sy'n cael eu cymryd i wella gwasanaethau yng Nghymru. Felly, mae cynllun clir ar y gweill.
Hoffwn gloi, a dweud y gwir, drwy ddiolch i Bethan am gyfrannu at y sefyllfa sydd gennym. Mae gennym gynllun clir rydym yn gweithio tuag ato, ond mae'n gymhleth a bydd yn cymryd amser. Ond fel y clywsoch yn fy araith, rhoddir terfynau amser ar gyfer cyrraedd y sefyllfa rydym am fod ynddi.
I now call on Bethan Sayed to reply to the debate.
Galwaf yn awr ar Bethan Sayed i ymateb i'r ddadl.
Thank you, and thank you to those who have contributed; I appreciate the response we've had. What I will start with is: you said, Deputy Minister, that it won't happen overnight, and I appreciate that any service change will take time, but I think what I would urge you to do in that sense, therefore, is to ensure that the people who contributed to the review—be they patients, be they carers, be they loved ones—are fully engaged in the timelines that you do have.
Because what they told me was that, once they'd contributed to Jacinta Tan's review, there was a drop-off and they didn't find out from Welsh Government what was happening. They weren't kept in the loop. And they don't have anything more that they want to be able to do than to find out what's happening and to be involved. So, I would urge you, even if you're going to tell them, 'It's going to take a bit of time, please bear with us', do you know what, they're not going to criticise you for that, because they know you're giving them that information? So, please, be abreast of that.
You say that extra funding will be necessary and you are approaching civil servants to look at how that will happen. Obviously, you will have read in Jacinta Tan's review that she would be predicting around £9 million to be able to do that. So, I would like to understand what your civil servants are doing in terms of costing different models and how they are going to approach that in future budgetary requirements, therefore. Because of course, at the moment, it's still the £1 million recurrent that we campaigned for in 2007, and things have changed since then. Yes, pockets of money have gone into different services, like transition and such, and that's something I totally welcome, but fundamentally it's still quite small in relation to the budget of the NHS in its entirety. And as we've said, again, people die from this condition, and we want to stop that happening in the future.
So, I'll finish now, and I would just like to say that it's not something that should be—. Mental health in all of its forms, as we'll discuss in the next debate, is important, but specifically, eating disorders don't just come into health, they come into education as well. Many people have told me that they go into schools and they would like to have more information about what that means to them. Emily Hoskins, who was here earlier, said her father is a teacher and people were telling people in school—just because they knew that Emily had an eating disorder—if they had an eating disorder in that school that they could go and see him. Well, he was dealing with that as a carer, and then coming in and people referring him to help those with eating disorders. That wasn't really appropriate.
So, I think we need to look at all elements of society and how not only the education system can accommodate those who need it, but also how the health system then can be amended to ensure that those who need treatment get it in a timely fashion and get the treatment they need for their own demands, here in society.
Diolch i chi, a diolch i'r rhai sydd wedi cyfrannu; rwy'n gwerthfawrogi'r ymateb a gawsom. Rwyf am ddechrau gyda hyn: fe ddywedoch chi, Ddirprwy Weinidog, na fydd yn digwydd dros nos, ac rwy'n sylweddoli y bydd unrhyw newid i'r gwasanaethau yn cymryd amser, ond credaf mai'r hyn yr hoffwn eich annog i'w wneud yn yr ystyr honno, felly, yw sicrhau bod y bobl a gyfrannodd at yr adolygiad—boed yn gleifion, boed yn ofalwyr, boed yn geraint—yn cymryd rhan lawn yn yr amserlenni sydd gennych.
Oherwydd fe wnaethant ddweud wrthyf fod gostyngiad wedi bod ar ôl iddynt gyfrannu at adolygiad Jacinta Tan, ac na chawsant wybod gan Lywodraeth Cymru beth oedd yn digwydd. Ni chawsant eu cynnwys. Ac nid oes mwy y maent eisiau gallu ei wneud na chael gwybod beth sy'n digwydd a chael cymryd rhan. Felly, hoffwn eich annog, hyd yn oed os ydych chi'n mynd i ddweud wrthynt, 'Mae'n mynd i gymryd ychydig o amser, byddwch yn amyneddgar os gwelwch yn dda', wyddoch chi beth, nid ydynt yn mynd i'ch beirniadu am hynny, oherwydd maent yn gwybod eich bod yn rhoi'r wybodaeth honno iddynt? Felly, byddwch yn ymwybodol o hynny.
Rydych yn dweud y bydd angen arian ychwanegol a'ch bod yn cysylltu â gweision sifil i edrych ar sut y bydd hynny'n digwydd. Yn amlwg, fe fyddwch wedi darllen yn adolygiad Jacinta Tan y byddai'n rhagweld bod angen tua £9 miliwn i allu gwneud hynny. Felly, hoffwn ddeall beth y mae eich gweision sifil yn ei wneud o ran costio gwahanol fodelau a sut y byddant yn ymdrin â hynny mewn gofynion cyllidebol yn y dyfodol, felly. Oherwydd wrth gwrs, ar hyn o bryd, yr £1 filiwn o arian rheolaidd y buom yn ymgyrchu drosto yn 2007 ydyw o hyd, ac mae pethau wedi newid ers hynny. Oes, mae pocedi o arian wedi mynd i wahanol wasanaethau, fel pontio ac yn y blaen, ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth rwy'n ei groesawu'n llwyr, ond yn ei hanfod mae'n dal yn eithaf bach o gymharu â chyllideb y GIG yn ei chyfanrwydd. Ac fel y dywedasom, unwaith eto, mae pobl yn marw o'r cyflwr hwn, ac rydym am atal hynny rhag digwydd yn y dyfodol.
Felly, rwyf am orffen yn awr, a hoffwn ddweud nad yw'n rhywbeth a ddylai fod—. Fel y byddwn yn trafod yn y ddadl nesaf, mae pob ffurf ar iechyd meddwl yn bwysig, ond yn benodol, nid yw anhwylderau bwyta yn perthyn i faes iechyd yn unig, maent yn perthyn i fyd addysg hefyd. Mae llawer o bobl wedi dweud wrthyf eu bod yn mynd i'r ysgolion a byddent yn hoffi cael mwy o wybodaeth ynglŷn â'r hyn y mae hynny'n ei olygu iddynt. Dywedodd Emily Hoskins, a oedd yma'n gynharach, fod ei thad yn athro a bod pobl yn dweud wrth bobl yn yr ysgol—am eu bod yn gwybod bod gan Emily anhwylder bwyta—pe bai ganddynt anhwylder bwyta yn yr ysgol honno y gallent fynd i'w weld. Wel, roedd yn ymdopi â hynny fel gofalwr, ac yna'n dod i mewn a phobl yn cyfeirio pobl ato am help gydag anhwylderau bwyta. Nid oedd hynny'n briodol mewn gwirionedd.
Felly, rwy'n credu bod angen inni edrych ar bob elfen o gymdeithas a sut y gall nid yn unig y system addysg ddarparu ar gyfer y rhai sydd ei angen, ond hefyd sut y gellir diwygio'r system iechyd wedyn i sicrhau bod y rhai sydd angen triniaeth yn ei chael yn amserol ac yn cael y driniaeth y maent ei hangen ar gyfer eu gofynion eu hunain, yma yn y gymdeithas.
Felly, diolch yn fawr iawn i bawb a wnaeth gymryd rhan, a gobeithio y bydd newidiadau ar y gweill er mwyn sicrhau bod y newidiadau hynny yn helpu'r bobl sydd ar y rheng flaen, fel eu bod nhw ddim yn mynd mor sâl fel bod angen iddyn nhw fynd mewn i uned driniaeth yn Lloegr, a'u bod nhw'n gallu aros yn y gymuned i gael y driniaeth benodol honno.
Thank you very much to everyone who took part, and I hope that changes will be afoot to ensure that those changes do help those people at the front line, so that they don't become so poorly that they have to enter a treatment unit in England, and that they can remain in the community to receive that specific treatment.
The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does anyone object? [Objection.] Then I'll defer voting under this item until voting time.
Y cwestiwn yw a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. A oes unrhyw un yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Felly, gohiriaf y bleidlais o dan yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Rebecca Evans, a gwelliant 2 yn enw Darren Millar. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-dethol.
The following amendments have been selected: amendments 1 in the name of Rebecca Evans, and amendment 2 in the name of Darren Millar. If amendment 1 is agreed amendment 2 will be deselected.
I move on now to item 8, the Plaid Cymru debate on mental health services. I call on Rhun ap Iorwerth to move the motion.
Symudaf ymlaen yn awr at eitem 8, sef dadl Plaid Cymru ar wasanaethau iechyd meddwl. Galwaf ar Rhun ap Iorwerth i wneud y cynnig.
Cynnig NDM7289 Siân Gwenllian
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn nodi'r pryderon ynghylch ansawdd y gofal a godir gan berthnasau cleifion o Gymru mewn unedau iechyd meddwl cleifion mewnol yn Lloegr.
2. Yn credu na ddylid anfon unrhyw gleifion sy'n cael problemau iechyd meddwl i unedau sy'n bell iawn o'u teulu.
3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:
a) sicrhau digon o gapasiti cleifion mewnol ar gyfer gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl yng Nghymru fel y gellir mynd ati'n raddol i ddileu'r gwaith o roi gofal ar gontract allanol;
b) bod â chynllun ar gyfer ailwladoli cleifion o Gymru sydd ar hyn o bryd yn byw mewn unedau yn Lloegr;
c) gosod gwaharddiad ar GIG Cymru rhag defnyddio unedau yn Lloegr sydd ag adroddiadau gwael gan y Comisiwn Ansawdd Gofal;
d) sicrhau bod unedau y tu allan i Gymru sy'n derbyn arian GIG Cymru yn cydymffurfio â gofynion arolygu Cymru.
Motion NDM7289 Siân Gwenllian
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Notes the concerns about quality of care raised by relatives of Welsh patients in inpatient mental health units in England.
2. Believes that no patient experiencing mental health problems should be sent to units that are large distances from their family.
3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:
a) ensure sufficient inpatient capacity for mental health services in Wales so that the outsourcing of care can be phased out;
b) have a plan for the repatriation of Welsh patients currently living in units in England;
c) place a ban on the Welsh NHS using units in England that have poor reports from the Care Quality Commission;
d) ensure that units outside of Wales receiving Welsh NHS money comply with Welsh inspection requirements.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Cadeirydd. Mae'r ddadl fer yma rŵan yn plethu mewn i'r ddadl rydym ni newydd ei chael—mi wnaf i egluro mwy am hynny am y man. Ond, dadl ydy hi ynglŷn â rhywbeth penodol iawn sydd o bryder mawr i ni ar y meinciau yma, dwi'n gobeithio i ni fel Senedd, ac i lawer gormod o'n hetholwyr ni. Sôn ydym ni am y nifer uchel o gleifion o Gymru sy'n cael eu hanfon i unedau iechyd meddwl ymhell, bell o gartref, yn aml iawn dros y ffin yn Lloegr. Ac mae yna bryderon difrifol ynglŷn â'r egwyddor sydd ynghlwm â gyrru pobl ymhell o gartref. Mae yna bryderon penodol ynglŷn â safon y gofal sy'n cael ei ddarparu i lawer ohonyn nhw.
Mae enghraifft yn y fan hyn: Wayne Erasmus yn honni ei fod o ddim hyd yn oed wedi gallu siarad efo na gweld ei fab awtistig ers dros dair blynedd. Mae ei fab o'n byw mewn uned sydd wedi bod yn destun adroddiad syfrdanol gan y Comisiwn Ansawdd Gofal, uned sydd wedi gweld ataliaeth gorfforol yn cynyddu. Mae claf arall o Gymru efo anorecsia yn yr uned. Dim ond tair galwad ffôn 10 munud yr wythnos sy'n cael eu caniatáu iddi hi efo'i pherthnasau gartref, a hynny efo cyfyngiadau ar yr hyn maen nhw'n cael siarad amdano fo. Ydy hynny'n swnio'n dderbyniol i chi? Mae yna lawer iawn o achosion tebyg wedi bod.
Ond hyd yn oed pe na bai yna bryder am safon ac ansawdd y gofal, mae yna bwynt pwysig iawn o egwyddor ynglŷn â'r effaith ar les claf o fod oriau a channoedd o filltiroedd i ffwrdd o gartref, yn methu siarad efo'u perthnasau o bosib, yn aml ddim yn gwybod pa mor hir fyddan nhw yna, ac yn sicr yn teimlo'n bell iawn o'r rhwydweithiau gofal yna sydd mor bwysig i bobl. Dwi'n cofio etholwr yn dweud wrthyf fi sut y cafodd o ei gludo o'i gartref yng nghanol nos, ag yntau yn wynebu problem iechyd meddwl aciwt, a'i gludo mewn cerbyd i gyffiniau Llundain, a sut yr oedd hynny wedi gwaethygu cymaint yr angst meddyliol yr oedd o'n mynd drwyddo fo ar y pryd. Gall hynny ddim bod yn dderbyniol o dan unrhyw amgylchiadau.
Mi fyddai'n un peth pe bai'r math yma o achosion yn rhai prin, ond dydy o ddim—dydy'r rhain ddim yn achosion prin. Mae Hafal, grŵp sy'n gwneud gwaith mor dda ym maes iechyd meddwl, yn sôn am arolwg o gyfnod lle nad oedden nhw'n gallu llenwi'r gwlâu yn eu huned nhw ym Mhontardawe, a lle oedd 30 y cant allan o 1,000 o gleifion iechyd meddwl ag anableddau dysgu a oedd yn rhan o'r astudiaeth yma wedi cael eu rhoi mewn ysbytai yn Lloegr. Does dim synnwyr yn y peth.
O'i glymu yn ôl at y ddadl flaenorol, mae'n bwysig tynnu sylw hefyd at y ffaith bod gan Gymru ddim uned breswyl anhwylderau bwyta. Mi oedd hi'n bleser cael sgwrs efo merch ifanc sy'n etholwraig i mi yn y cyfarfod heddiw yma. Roedd hi'n hyfryd siarad efo Sara am ei phrofiadau hi, ac yn torri calon rhywun o glywed profiadau Sara. Mi oedd Sara wedi gorfod teithio ymhell bell o gartref ac i Loegr er mwyn cael gofal, a hithau dim ond yn ei harddegau. Mae hynny'n annerbyniol.
Gadewch i ni ystyried hefyd achos cau'r uned mamau a babanod yng Nghaerdydd ar gyfer mamau sy'n profi seicosis postpartum—penderfyniad a wnaeth niwed difrifol, fel cafodd ei ddweud yn glir iawn wrth ymholiad y pwyllgor yma yn y Senedd. Dyma chi ddyfyniad gan Goleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion:
Thank you very much, Chair. This brief debate links very neatly with the debate that we've just had—I'll explain more about that in a few moments. But, it's a debate on a very specific issue that is of great concern to us on these benches, and I hope of concern to us as a Senedd, and to far too many of our constituents too. We are talking here about the high number of patients from Wales who are sent to mental health units that are a long distance from their homes, very often over the border in England. And there are grave concerns about the principle of sending people a long way from home. There are specific concerns about the quality of the care that is provided in many of these units.
There is an example here: Wayne Erasmus claims that he has not been able to speak to or see his autistic son for over three years. His son is living in a unit that has been the subject of a shocking report by the Care Quality Commission, a unit that has seen the use of physical restraint increasing. Another patient from Wales with anorexia is in the unit. She is allowed only three phone calls of 10 minutes per week with her relatives at home, and there are restrictions on what they can discuss during those calls. Does that sound acceptable to you? There are a number of similar cases that have arisen.
But even if there weren't a concern about the quality of the care provided, there is a very important point of principle about the impact on the well-being of a patient of being many hours and many hundreds of miles away from home, not being able to communicate with relatives, often not knowing how long they will be there, and certainly feeling very isolated from those care networks that are so important to people. I remember a constituent telling me how he was taken from his home in the middle of the night, whilst he was facing an acute mental health episode, and taken in a vehicle to the outskirts of London, and how that had had such a detrimental impact on the mental angst that he was already suffering at that time. That can't be acceptable under any circumstances.
It would be one thing if these kinds of cases were rare, but they're not. Hafal, a group doing laudable work in mental health, mention a survey over a period where they couldn't fill the beds that they had in their unit in Pontardawe, where 30 per cent of the 1,000 people who were part of the study were placed in hospitals in England. There is no sense to that.
In linking it back to our previous debate, it's important to highlight the fact that Wales doesn't have an eating disorder residential unit. It was a pleasure to have a conversation with a young woman who's a constituent of mine in the meeting today. It was wonderful to speak to Sara about her experiences, and it was heartbreaking, hearing about Sara's experiences. She had to travel a very long way from home to England in order to access treatment, and she was only a teenager at the time. That's unacceptable.
Let's also consider the closure of the mother and baby unit in Cardiff for mothers suffering postpartum psychosis—a decision that did serious damage, as was clearly stated in the committee's inquiry here in the Senedd. Here's a quote from the Royal College of Psychiatrists:
'People with mental health problems being sent out of the area, out of the country, even, are not people with very rare or unusual conditions. They're people we could care for near their families and near their friends.'
Nid yw pobl â phroblemau iechyd meddwl sy'n cael eu hanfon allan o'r ardal, allan o'r wlad hyd yn oed, yn bobl â chyflyrau anghyffredin neu anarferol iawn. Maent yn bobl y gallem ofalu amdanynt yn agos at eu teuluoedd ac yn agos at eu ffrindiau.
Mi glywoch chi'r ddadl yn cael ei gwneud weithiau bod y mas critigol o ran poblogaeth ddim gennym ni yma yng Nghymru, ond ar gyfer y rhan fwyaf o gyflyrau, mae gennym ni yn sicr y boblogaeth sydd ag angen dwys i gael y gofal yn agos at gartref, a diogi a phatrymau hanesyddol gwael o ran comisiynu gofal sydd wedi ein rhoi ni yn y sefyllfa yma. Felly, dyna ddigon o esgusodion; gadewch i ni anfon neges glir iawn bod yn rhaid i hyn ddod i ben, a bod yn rhaid i ni ddatblygu gwasanaeth iechyd sydd wir yn siwtio ein hanghenion ni fel gwlad.
You hear the argument being made sometimes that the critical mass of population doesn't exist here in Wales, but for most conditions, we certainly do have a population that desperately needs that care close to home. It's poor historical patterns in terms of the commissioning of care that has placed us in this position. So that's enough of the excuses; let's send a very clear message that this has to end, and that we have to develop a health service that truly suits our needs as a nation.
I have selected the two amendments to the motion, and if amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. I call on the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans.
Rwyf wedi dewis y ddau welliant i'r cynnig, ac os derbynnir gwelliant 1, bydd gwelliant 2 yn cael ei ddad-ddethol. Galwaf ar y Dirprwy Weinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i gyflwyno gwelliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans, yn ffurfiol.
Gwelliant 1—Rebecca Evans
Dileu popeth ar ôl pwynt 1 a rhoi yn ei le:
Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:
a) sicrhau bod pellter o’r cartref yn cael ei ystyried yn ffactor allweddol ar gyfer pobl sydd angen cymorth iechyd meddwl arbenigol fel cleifion mewnol
b) sicrhau bod trefniadau cadarn ar waith i fonitro ansawdd a diogelwch lleoliadau mewn unedau yn Lloegr, gan gynnwys gweithio ar y cyd â’r Comisiwn Ansawdd Gofal.
Amendment 1—Rebecca Evans
Delete all after point 1 and replace with:
Calls on Welsh Government to:
a) ensure that distance from home is considered as a key factor for people who require specialist mental health in-patient support
b) ensure robust arrangements are in place to monitor the quality and safety of placements in units in England, including collaborative working with the Care Quality Commission.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.
Amendment 1 moved.
Formally.
Yn ffurfiol.
I call on Angela Burns to move amendment 2, tabled in the name of Darren Millar.
Galwaf ar Angela Burns i gynnig gwelliant 2, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar.
Gwelliant 2—Darren Millar
Dileu pwynt 3 a rhoi yn ei le:
Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:
a) sicrhau bod holl gleifion iechyd meddwl cyfrwng Cymraeg a diogelwch lefel uchel yn cael eu lleoli yng Nghymru oni bai mewn amgylchiadau eithriadol;
b) sicrhau digon o gapasiti ar gyfer cleifion mewnol diogelwch canolig a lefel uchel ar gyfer gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl yng Nghymru fel y gellir diddymu'r trefniadau ar gyfer contractio gofal yn raddol;
c) sicrhau bod Arolygiaeth Iechyd Cymru a'r Comisiwn Ansawdd Gofal yn cydweithredu er mwyn i unedau iechyd meddwl y tu allan i Gymru sy'n derbyn cleifion o Gymru gydymffurfio â gofynion arolygu;
d) cyflwyno Uwch-swyddogion Cyfrifol ar gyfer cleifion iechyd meddwl diogelwch canolig a lefel uchel Cymru er mwyn galluogi cydweithio rhwng Pwyllgor Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol Cymru a byrddau iechyd lleol sy'n canolbwyntio ar y claf; ac
e) sicrhau bod yn rhaid i gynlluniau cyfathrebu gael eu gosod ochr yn ochr â chynlluniau triniaeth ar gyfer cleifion iechyd meddwl diogelwch canolig a lefel uchel Cymru er mwyn rheoli disgwyliadau'r claf, y teulu a'r clinigwyr.
Amendment 2—Darren Millar
Delete point 3 and replace with:
Calls on the Welsh Government to:
a) ensure all Welsh medium and high security mental health patients are placed in Wales unless in exceptional circumstances;
b) ensure sufficient medium and high security inpatient capacity for mental health services in Wales so that the outsourcing of care can be phased out;
c) ensure that Health Inspectorate Wales and the Care Quality Commission collaborate so that mental health units outside of Wales who receive Welsh patients are complying with inspection requirements;
d) introduce Senior Responsible Officers for medium and high security Welsh mental health patients to enable joint working between Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee and local health boards with a focus on the patient; and
e) ensure that communication plans must be put alongside treatment plans for medium and high security Welsh mental health patients to manage the expectations of the patient, their families and clinicians.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 2.
Amendment 2 moved.
Thank you very much, acting Deputy Presiding Officer. I am going to talk at speed, because I have a lot to say on this subject and I've only got three minutes. First of all, I'm not going to let you get away with your cheeky little comment there, Rhun ap Iorwerth. You know that these benches care a lot about this, because I have been very vocal on this subject, and I'm very glad that the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee are going to be looking at this very subject.
The reason why we have tabled our amendment is because, actually, we've done enough work to be able to drill down on some of the detail that we need here, Minister. But before I start on that particular element of the amendment, I just want to recount something to everyone in the Chamber. Literally, two months ago, I went to visit one of my constituents in a medium-secure unit in England. It is one that has got some serious Care Quality Commission black marks against it, and whether or not it is good or bad, I can tell you now that, as another human being walking into a medium-secure unit, my heart almost failed me. It is grim. I've also visited prisons. Where would I rather be—a prison or a medium-secure unit? I'd rather be in a prison. If you're in a prison you get to do things. If you're in a prison, you're allowed access to people. If you're in a prison, it's easy to see your family and your friends in specialised waiting rooms. If you're in a prison, above all, you know when you're going to leave. It may be three months, three years, 30 years, but you have an end goal. You don't have any of that optimism, any of that aspiration, any of that certainty when you're in a medium-secure prison. And when you're in a medium-secure prison that's 200 miles away from your family, then the heartbreak is multiplied, because it is very difficult to maintain communications.
One of the things that gets thrown around a lot is that, as soon as you're in one of those kinds of places—and don't forget, if you have mental health issues and you're in a medium-secure unit, you are very often with people who are there through the Ministry of Justice system, and that's a tough call. I saw some tough activity going on. I would not like to be there.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd dros dro. Rwy'n mynd i siarad yn gyflym oherwydd mae gennyf lawer i'w ddweud ar y pwnc hwn a dim ond tri munud sydd gennyf. Yn gyntaf oll, nid wyf am adael i chi osgoi cerydd am eich sylw bach digywilydd yno, Rhun ap Iorwerth. Fe wyddoch fod y meinciau hyn yn pryderu’n fawr am y mater, gan i mi ei godi ar sawl achlysur, ac rwy'n falch iawn fod y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol yn mynd i edrych arno.
Y rheswm pam ein bod wedi cyflwyno ein gwelliant yw oherwydd ein bod wedi gwneud digon o waith i allu ymchwilio i rywfaint o'r manylion sydd eu hangen arnom yma, Weinidog. Ond cyn i mi ddechrau ar yr elfen arbennig honno o'r gwelliant, rwyf am ddweud rhywbeth wrth bawb yn y Siambr. Yn llythrennol ddeufis yn ôl ymwelais ag un o fy etholwyr mewn uned diogelwch canolig yn Lloegr. Mae'n un sydd â marciau du difrifol gan y Comisiwn Ansawdd Gofal yn ei erbyn, a ph'un a yw'n dda neu'n ddrwg ai peidio, fel bod dynol arall yn cerdded i mewn i uned diogelwch canolig, gallaf ddweud wrthych yn awr fod fy nghalon bron â stopio curo. Mae'n erchyll. Rwyf wedi ymweld â charchardai hefyd. Ble byddai'n well gennyf fod—carchar neu uned diogelwch canolig? Byddai'n well gennyf fod mewn carchar. Os ydych chi mewn carchar fe gewch wneud pethau. Os ydych chi mewn carchar, caniateir i chi ddod i gysylltiad â phobl. Os ydych chi mewn carchar, mae'n hawdd i chi weld eich teulu a'ch ffrindiau mewn ystafelloedd aros arbenigol. Os ydych chi mewn carchar, yn anad dim, rydych chi'n gwybod pa bryd y byddwch yn cael eich rhyddhau. Gallai fod yn dri mis, tair blynedd, 30 mlynedd, ond mae gennych nod terfynol. Nid oes gennych ddim o'r optimistiaeth honno, dim dyhead felly, na sicrwydd o’r fath pan fyddwch mewn carchar diogelwch canolig. A phan fyddwch mewn carchar diogelwch canolig sydd 200 milltir i ffwrdd oddi wrth eich teulu, mae'r torcalon gymaint yn fwy am ei bod hi’n anodd iawn dal ati i gyfathrebu.
Un o'r pethau sy'n cael eu dweud yn aml, cyn gynted ag y byddwch yn un o'r mathau hynny o leoedd—a pheidiwch ag anghofio, os oes gennych chi broblemau iechyd meddwl a'ch bod chi mewn uned diogelwch canolig, rydych chi’n aml iawn gyda phobl sydd yno trwy system y Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder, ac mae hynny'n anodd. Gwelais weithgareddau caled yn digwydd. Ni hoffwn fod yno.
So you're already a vulnerable person and you're put into a place that makes you even more vulnerable. A lot is made of the fact that we don't have the capacity here in Wales, and we don't, but when you're away, everybody needs family or friends, or an anchor. That anchor is so important. It is the way you find your way back to good health. If your anchor is 200 miles away or 300 miles away and you can't access that anchor easily, then it is very difficult to find your route home. So I absolutely urge the Welsh Government to have a look at this and to have a look at how we provide medium-secure units in Wales.
Please, with your indulgence, I just want to address points (d) and (e), because a senior responsible officer is absolutely critical, Deputy Minister. One of the big problems you have is that a health board will say, 'This person needs medium-secure provision.' The Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee will then go and commission it and then, between the two of them, there's no clear line of sight on that person, on their progression or on their treatment plan. And, of course, people get moved around. Every time you get moved around from place A to place B, then you are re-reviewed, re-analysed and a new treatment plan is put into place. It's very hard to make those steps going forward; it's always two steps forward, one step back.
Finally, a communications plan. That is absolutely key, because a lot of the conflict that we see is because family and friends are not given clear communication as to what is happening, what the next steps are and what part they can play in helping that person get better. And the person in there doesn't have a clear communication plan. They immediately feel that they're at the mercy of the people in charge of them, and that, in my experience and for all the people I've seen, has been one of the biggest sources of conflict. So I'd like to see a senior responsible officer and I would like to see clear communication plans laid out with the nearest and dearest alongside the treatment plan, and of course I want to see medium-secure units here in Wales. It's ridiculous having to travel so far away for treatment that should be normal in our NHS.
Felly rydych chi'n berson agored i niwed yn barod ac rydych chi'n cael eich rhoi mewn lle sy'n eich gwneud chi'n fwy agored byth i niwed. Mae llawer yn cael ei wneud o'r ffaith nad oes gennym gapasiti yma yng Nghymru, ac mae hynny'n wir, ond pan fyddwch i ffwrdd, mae pawb angen teulu neu ffrindiau, neu angor. Mae'r angor mor bwysig. Dyna sut y dowch o hyd i'ch ffordd yn ôl i iechyd da. Os yw eich angor 200 milltir i ffwrdd neu 300 milltir i ffwrdd ac ni allwch gael mynediad at yr angor hwnnw'n hawdd, mae'n anodd iawn dod o hyd i'ch llwybr adref. Felly rwy'n annog Llywodraeth Cymru yn gryf i edrych ar hyn ac i edrych ar sut rydym yn darparu unedau diogelwch canolig yng Nghymru.
Gyda'ch caniatâd chi, hoffwn roi sylw i bwyntiau (d) ac (e), oherwydd mae uwch-swyddog cyfrifol yn gwbl allweddol, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Un o'r problemau mawr sydd gennych yw y bydd bwrdd iechyd yn dweud, 'Mae'r person hwn angen darpariaeth uned diogelwch canolig.' Yna, bydd Pwyllgor Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol Cymru yn mynd ati i'w gomisiynu ac yna, rhwng y ddau, collir golwg ar y person hwnnw, ar ei gynnydd neu ei gynllun triniaeth. Ac wrth gwrs, mae pobl yn cael eu symud o gwmpas. Bob tro y cewch eich symud o A i B, byddwch yn cael eich ailadolygu, eich ailddadansoddi a gweithredir cynllun triniaeth newydd. Mae'n anodd iawn gwneud y camau hynny wrth symud ymlaen; mae bob amser yn ddau gam ymlaen, un cam yn ôl.
Yn olaf, cynllun cyfathrebu. Mae hwnnw'n gwbl allweddol, oherwydd mae llawer o'r gwrthdaro a welwn yn ymwneud â'r ffaith na chyfathrebir yn glir â theulu a ffrindiau ynglŷn â'r hyn sy'n digwydd, beth yw'r camau nesaf a pha ran y gallant ei chwarae i helpu'r unigolyn dan sylw i wella. Ac nid oes gan y person sydd i mewn yno gynllun cyfathrebu clir. Teimlant ar unwaith eu bod ar drugaredd y bobl sy'n gyfrifol amdanynt, a dyna fu un o'r achosion gwrthdaro mwyaf yn fy mhrofiad i ac i'r holl bobl a welais. Felly, hoffwn weld uwch-swyddog cyfrifol a hoffwn weld cynlluniau cyfathrebu clir yn cael eu gosod gyda'r bobl agosaf a cheraint ochr yn ochr â'r cynllun triniaeth, ac wrth gwrs rwyf am weld unedau diogelwch canolig yma yng Nghymru. Mae'n hurt fod rhaid teithio mor bell i gael triniaeth a ddylai fod yn normal yn ein GIG.
Thank you. I call on Mark Reckless.
Diolch. Galwaf ar Mark Reckless.
Diolch. I'm very pleased to hear from Angela again. I remember her being very persuasive in the Chamber before on this and I know the particular case she's had and the extraordinary work she's done as an AM to support that family. I was also quite struck by a recent tv documentary in the same area. Just looking at that facility, it was so much more prison-like than I had imagined. She says we should have a medium-secure unit in Wales—yes we should. I hope it will be better than what we've seen, at least of some of those units in England. But I don't think it will necessarily mean that it would treat every patient in Wales where we need this mental health in-patient treatment. I think there is a danger in going from specific concerns about cases we're aware of to general but highly prescriptive requirements that we see in this motion.
I just have some concern about saying, too, that no patient should be a long distance from their family. There may be some mental health conditions that are so specialised that there can only be one or two places in the UK where you can give treatment at sufficient scale with sufficient specialists to do it. It may be, in some cases, the right thing for a particular patient in Wales to attend there. I also think there's a potential contradiction between no patient being a large distance from their family and then repatriating all Welsh patients—not clear how defined—who are currently in units in England. Perhaps some of those may have family or support in England, and we have many people who live near the border, and have mobility to move from England to Wales. And there may be special cases for individual patients, and we have to consider those, too.
I think 3 (c) is too strong in terms of a ban on Welsh units using ones in England that have had a poor inspection. Perhaps they're dealing with that poor inspection, or perhaps that poor inspection was particular to one aspect of that facility. In 3 (c), the Plaid motion puts a lot of emphasis on the Care Quality Commission in England, yet then in (d) says that we should ignore that entirely and they must abide by Welsh inspection requirements. I think that's unrealistic in another context. We can't really have extra-territorial regulation. [Interruption.] Yes, I will.
Diolch. Rwy'n falch iawn o glywed gan Angela eto. Cofiaf iddi gyflwyno dadl argyhoeddiadol iawn yn y Siambr o'r blaen ar hyn a gwn am yr achos penodol a gafodd a'r gwaith anhygoel y mae wedi'i wneud fel AC i gefnogi'r teulu hwnnw. Fe'm trawyd hefyd gan raglen ddogfen ar y teledu yn ddiweddar yn yr un maes. Wrth edrych ar y cyfleuster hwnnw, roedd yn llawer tebycach i garchar nag y dychmygais. Mae hi'n dweud y dylai fod gennym uned diogelwch canolig yng Nghymru—dylem yn wir. Gobeithio y bydd yn well na'r hyn a welsom, o leiaf rai o'r unedau hynny yn Lloegr. Ond nid wyf yn meddwl y bydd o reidrwydd yn golygu y byddai'n trin pob claf yng Nghymru lle mae angen y driniaeth iechyd meddwl hon ar gyfer cleifion mewnol. Rwy'n credu bod perygl mewn symud o bryderon penodol am achosion rydym yn ymwybodol ohonynt i'r gofynion cyffredinol ond rhagnodol iawn a welwn yn y cynnig hwn.
Rwy'n poeni braidd ynglŷn â dweud hefyd na ddylai'r un claf fod yn bell oddi wrth ei deulu. Efallai fod rhai cyflyrau iechyd meddwl mor arbenigol fel mai dim ond un neu ddau o leoedd sydd ar gael yn y DU lle gallwch roi triniaeth ar raddfa ddigon mawr gyda digon o arbenigwyr i wneud hynny. Mewn rhai achosion, efallai mai dyna'r lle iawn i glaf penodol yng Nghymru fod. Rwyf hefyd o'r farn fod gwrthddweud posibl rhwng dweud na ddylai'r un claf fod yn bell oddi wrth ei deulu a dod â'r holl gleifion o Gymru—nid yw hynny wedi'i ddiffinio'n glir—sydd mewn unedau yn Lloegr ar hyn o bryd yn ôl i Gymru. Efallai fod gan rai o'r rheini deulu neu gefnogaeth yn Lloegr, ac mae gennym lawer o bobl sy'n byw ger y ffin, ac sy'n gallu symud o Loegr i Gymru. A gall fod achosion arbennig i gleifion unigol, a rhaid inni ystyried y rheini hefyd.
Rwy'n credu bod 3(c) yn rhy gryf o ran gwahardd unedau yng Nghymru rhag defnyddio rhai yn Lloegr sydd wedi cael arolwg gwael. Efallai eu bod yn ymdrin â'r arolwg gwael, neu efallai fod yr arolwg gwael yn ymwneud yn benodol ag un agwedd ar y cyfleuster hwnnw. Yn 3(c), mae cynnig Plaid Cymru yn rhoi llawer o bwyslais ar y Comisiwn Ansawdd Gofal yn Lloegr, ac eto, yn (d) mae'n dweud y dylem anwybyddu hwnnw'n llwyr ac y dylent orfod glynu at ofynion arolygu Cymru. Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n afrealistig mewn cyd-destun arall. Ni allwn gael trefn reoleiddio sy'n croesi tiriogaethau. [Torri ar draws.] Iawn, fe wnaf.
Thank you very much. I just wanted to let the Chamber know that I had a meeting with Healthcare Inspectorate Wales on this issue, with the head, and she was quite clear about the difficulties—the legislative and practical difficulties—of monitoring a placement in England from a Welsh organisation.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Roeddwn am adael i'r Siambr wybod fy mod wedi cael cyfarfod ag Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru ar y mater hwn, gyda'r pennaeth, ac roedd hi'n eithaf clir ynglŷn â'r anawsterau—yr anawsterau deddfwriaethol ac ymarferol—a fyddai'n codi pe bai sefydliad yng Nghymru yn monitro lleoliad yn Lloegr.
There are difficulties in monitoring, and we should take those into account, but I don't think that the way to deal with that is to extend the Welsh regulation to English facilities, or think that that's a realistic way of dealing with that. I think that we need to have mutual recognition or equivalence of that, and trusted relationships with regulators.
I'm not convinced about the proposal for a communication plan, but I think that the treatment plan should consider how to communicate with family and others. I think that when we do have patients in England, those facilities in England need to understand who they are dealing with in Wales. I think that there has been a terrible problem with the health board, and then WHSSC, and not being clear who is doing what. We need to be clear, and we need to make sure that the facility that we're commissioning in England is also clear. I think that the Welsh Government have a good amendment on this with the right balance on their points (a) and (b), and we intend to support their amendment, but oppose the motion and the other amendments. Thank you.
Ceir anawsterau o ran monitro, a dylem ystyried y rheini, ond nid wyf yn credu mai'r ffordd o fynd i'r afael â hynny yw ymestyn trefn reoleiddio Cymru i gynnwys cyfleusterau yn Lloegr, neu feddwl bod honno'n ffordd realistig o ymdrin â hynny. Credaf fod angen inni sicrhau cydnabyddiaeth ar y ddwy ochr neu rywbeth tebyg i hynny, a chael perthynas y gellir ymddiried ynddi gyda'r cyrff rheoleiddio.
Nid wyf wedi fy narbwyllo ynglŷn â'r cynnig ar gyfer cynllun cyfathrebu, ond rwy'n credu y dylai'r cynllun triniaeth ystyried sut i gyfathrebu â theulu ac eraill. Pan fydd gennym gleifion yn Lloegr, credaf fod angen i'r cyfleusterau yn Lloegr wybod pwy maent yn ymwneud â hwy yng Nghymru. Rwy'n credu bod problem ofnadwy wedi bod gyda'r bwrdd iechyd, a chyda Phwyllgor Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol Cymru wedyn, a diffyg eglurder ynglŷn â phwy sy'n gwneud beth. Mae angen inni fod yn glir, ac mae angen inni sicrhau bod y cyfleuster rydym yn ei gomisiynu yn Lloegr hefyd yn glir. Credaf fod gan Lywodraeth Cymru welliant da ar hyn gyda'r cydbwysedd cywir yn eu pwyntiau (a) a (b), a bwriadwn gefnogi eu gwelliant, ond byddwn yn gwrthwynebu'r cynnig a'r gwelliannau eraill. Diolch.
I'd like to talk about the experiences of a specific group of people who are suffering from having to go to England to receive mental health care, and that is new mothers who suffer from mental health problems. According to the Maternal Mental Health Alliance, these women are missing out on potentially life-saving care because of the lack of a specialist support unit in Wales. I believe that the first person to call for a specialist unit to be developed was my predecessor, Steffan Lewis. He was successful in playing a part in achieving a commitment from the Welsh Government to develop a permanent unit by 2021, as part of the 2018-19 budget deal between Labour and Plaid Cymru.
Now, we know that it doesn't look like this is going to happen, with Labour set to break a budget deal promise by opening an interim unit within a psychological hospital instead. That is not what was agreed, and it's not what's needed. Breaking a budget deal commitment is a very serious matter, not only in terms of political trust but, more importantly in this instance, it means that new mothers will continue to be denied the treatment that they need.
I'd like to place on record my thanks to BBC Cymru Wales for the excellent journalism that they've done over the past few years, giving a platform to some of the women who have been affected by this. One new mother who was treated at a psychiatric unit—a setting deemed inappropriate for the condition, according to experts—told the BBC reporter:
'I was not in an appropriate environment…there was absolutely no provision for my partner and son to visit during the day.'
Again, we're talking about women in a very vulnerable condition, when they need their families more than ever.
Hoffwn siarad am brofiadau grŵp penodol o bobl sy'n dioddef o orfod mynd i Loegr i gael gofal iechyd meddwl, sef mamau newydd sy'n dioddef o broblemau iechyd meddwl. Yn ôl Cynghrair Iechyd Meddwl Mamau, mae'r menywod hyn yn cael eu hamddifadu o ofal a allai achub bywydau oherwydd diffyg uned gymorth arbenigol yng Nghymru. Credaf mai fy rhagflaenydd, Steffan Lewis, oedd y person cyntaf i alw am ddatblygu uned arbenigol. Llwyddodd i chwarae ei ran yn cyflawni ymrwymiad gan Lywodraeth Cymru i ddatblygu uned barhaol erbyn 2021, fel rhan o gytundeb cyllideb 2018-19 rhwng Llafur a Phlaid Cymru.
Nawr, fe wyddom nad yw'n edrych debyg y bydd hyn yn digwydd, gyda Llafur ar fin torri addewid cytundeb cyllideb drwy agor uned dros dro mewn ysbyty seicolegol yn lle hynny. Nid dyma a gytunwyd, ac nid dyma sydd ei angen. Mae torri ymrwymiad cytundeb cyllideb yn fater difrifol iawn, nid yn unig o ran ymddiriedaeth wleidyddol ond yn bwysicach yn yr achos hwn, mae'n golygu y bydd mamau newydd yn dal i gael eu hamddifadu o'r driniaeth sydd ei hangen arnynt.
Hoffwn gofnodi fy niolch i BBC Cymru Wales am y newyddiaduraeth ragorol y maent wedi'i chyflawni dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf yn rhoi llwyfan i rai o'r menywod y mae hyn wedi effeithio arnynt. Dywedodd un fam newydd a gafodd ei thrin mewn uned seiciatrig—lleoliad a gâi ei ystyried yn amhriodol ar gyfer y cyflwr, yn ôl arbenigwyr—wrth ohebydd y BBC:
Nid oeddwn mewn amgylchedd priodol... nid oedd unrhyw ddarpariaeth o gwbl i fy mhartner a fy mab ymweld â mi yn ystod y dydd.
Unwaith eto, rydym yn sôn am fenywod mewn cyflwr bregus iawn, pan fyddant angen eu teuluoedd yn fwy nag erioed.
Postpartum psychosis, on the CYPE committee—. When we looked at this, we spoke with one lady who had come down to Cardiff when the facility was there, who would have preferred to go to Manchester. For many in north Wales, it works to go to the mother and baby unit and a hospital in Manchester, and that will be preferable to being made to come down to Cardiff, further from their families.
Seicosis postpartum, ar y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg—. Pan edrychasom ar hyn, buom yn siarad ag un ddynes a oedd wedi dod i lawr i Gaerdydd pan oedd y cyfleuster yno, a byddai'n well ganddi fod wedi mynd i Fanceinion. I lawer yng ngogledd Cymru, mae'n gweithio i fynd i uned mam a'i baban ac ysbyty ym Manceinion, a bydd hynny'n well na chael eu gorfodi i ddod i lawr i Gaerdydd, ymhellach oddi wrth eu teuluoedd.
I accept that in some instances, that will be the case, but there will be many instances where this is needed. Again, I come back to the fact that this was a budget commitment, and this was something that was agreed between the two parties. I accept what you are saying in some instances.
Another mother said that she went from being really happy to having a baby to not really knowing where she was, and that she didn't know what she was doing and felt very scared and not knowing where she could go for help. She said about her family:
'They weren't allowed to come to my room, we used to spend the time wandering the hospital corridors.'
A perinatal nurse explained the effect that travelling to a specialist unit had on another:
'It took them 10 hours to get there...it was horrendous because you have to stop with the baby every two hours because it was a new born…they got there at 10 p.m....what a terrible thing to do to that woman who was psychotic.'
Experts are agreed that opening a unit in Wales is essential. Dr Witcombe-Hayes of NSPCC Cymru has said:
'It is vital that Wales has provision for a mother and baby unit for women experiencing the most severe conditions.'
According to the Welsh Health Specialist Services Committee, women now face a choice between receiving in-patient care more locally, but being separated from their infant, or remaining with their infant in a specialist unit, but needing to travel away from their support networks. They add that, in many cases, women choose to access local acute psychiatric services that are not fit for purpose and lack specialist knowledge. This is not a choice anyone should have to face, especially not mothers in a crisis situation.
So, to close, the message to the Welsh Government is this: these women need this specialist support unit. The experts agree. You promised to provide it. Please get on with it before any new mothers have to suffer because of this scandalous inaction.
Rwy'n derbyn y bydd hynny'n wir mewn rhai achosion, ond bydd llawer o achosion lle mae angen hyn. Unwaith eto, dychwelaf at y ffaith mai ymrwymiad cyllideb oedd hwn, ac roedd yn rhywbeth y cytunwyd arno rhwng y ddwy blaid. Rwy'n derbyn yr hyn a ddywedwch mewn rhai achosion.
Dywedodd mam arall ei bod wedi mynd o fod yn hapus iawn i gael babi i beidio â gwybod yn iawn ble roedd hi, ac nad oedd hi'n gwybod beth roedd hi'n ei wneud a'i bod yn teimlo'n ofnus iawn a heb wybod ble y gallai fynd am gymorth. Dywedodd am ei theulu:
Nid oeddent yn cael dod i fy ystafell, byddem yn treulio'r amser yn crwydro coridorau'r ysbyty.
Eglurodd nyrs amenedigol yr effaith roedd teithio i uned arbenigol wedi'i chael ar ddynes arall:
Fe gymerodd 10 awr iddynt gyrraedd yno... Roedd yn erchyll oherwydd mae'n rhaid i chi stopio gyda'r babi bob dwy awr am ei fod yn newydd-anedig... fe gyraeddasant am 10 p.m.... am beth ofnadwy i'w wneud i'r ddynes honno a oedd yn seicotig.
Mae arbenigwyr yn gytûn fod agor uned yng Nghymru yn hanfodol. Dywedodd Dr Witcombe-Hayes o NSPCC Cymru:
Mae'n hanfodol fod gan Gymru ddarpariaeth uned i famau a'u babanod ar gyfer menywod sy'n dioddef y cyflyrau mwyaf difrifol.
Yn ôl Pwyllgor Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol Cymru, mae menywod bellach yn wynebu dewis rhwng cael gofal fel cleifion mewnol yn fwy lleol, ond cael eu gwahanu oddi wrth eu babanod, neu aros gyda'u babanod mewn uned arbenigol, ond bod angen iddynt deithio i ffwrdd oddi wrth eu rhwydweithiau cymorth. Ychwanegant fod menywod mewn llawer o achosion yn dewis cael gwasanaethau seiciatrig acíwt lleol nad ydynt yn addas at y diben a heb wybodaeth arbenigol. Nid yw'n ddewis y dylai unrhyw un orfod ei wynebu, yn enwedig mamau mewn argyfwng.
Felly, i gloi, dyma'r neges i Lywodraeth Cymru: mae angen yr uned gymorth arbenigol hon ar y menywod hyn. Mae'r arbenigwyr yn cytuno. Fe addawoch chi ei darparu. Gwnewch hyn cyn i unrhyw famau newydd orfod dioddef oherwydd y diffyg gweithredu gwarthus hwn.
I call on the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services, Julie Morgan.
Galwaf ar y Dirprwy Weinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Julie Morgan.
Thank you very much, and I think that the examples used in the debate have been very powerful and illustrate the issue that we are addressing here today. And I do recognise how difficult it is for patients and their families when care has to be accessed away from home, and it's obviously much more difficult if families have concerns about the quality of the care being provided. So, I'm pleased to have the opportunity to restate the Government's recognition of the importance of continuing to improve mental health services, including mental health in-patient provision. And I also want to provide assurances regarding the arrangements we have in place to ensure the quality and safety of care for Welsh patients receiving care for their mental health needs outside of Wales.
Our aim is to provide mental health care closer to home and to reduce the need for in-patient support. Our sustained investment in mental health services, which will rise in 2020-21 to £712 million, is improving outcomes. For instance, the investment in community services has led to a reduction in mental health hospital admissions over time. And we also do continue to see a reduction in the number of patients who are placed in units in England. In 2018, it was 130 and in 2019, it had gone down to 96, and we hope that this will continue, this downward trend.
But whilst our focus is on providing more support in the community, specialist in-patient provision will always be required to support people with high needs. And whilst we do provide in-patient support here in Wales, we do, in fact, have two NHS medium secure units in Wales, Tŷ Llywelyn in the north and Caswell in the south, we also provide access to support units in England. This allows patients in Wales to access very specialist support provided in units for the whole of the UK. But we do acknowledge that it is difficult for patients and families when they are placed a long way away.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, a chredaf fod yr enghreifftiau a ddefnyddiwyd yn y ddadl wedi bod yn rymus iawn ac yn dangos y broblem rydym yn mynd i'r afael â hi yma heddiw. Ac rwy'n cydnabod pa mor anodd yw hi i gleifion a'u teuluoedd pan fo'n rhaid cael gofal oddi cartref, ac mae'n amlwg yn llawer anos os oes gan deuluoedd bryderon ynglŷn ag ansawdd y gofal sy'n cael ei ddarparu. Felly, rwy'n falch o'r cyfle i ailddatgan cydnabyddiaeth y Llywodraeth i bwysigrwydd parhau i wella gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl, gan gynnwys darpariaeth iechyd meddwl i gleifion mewnol. Ac rwyf hefyd am roi sicrwydd ynglŷn â'r trefniadau sydd gennym ar waith i sicrhau ansawdd a diogelwch y gofal a gaiff cleifion o Gymru sy'n cael gofal ar gyfer eu hanghenion iechyd meddwl y tu allan i Cymru.
Ein nod yw darparu gofal iechyd meddwl yn agosach at adref i bobl a lleihau'r angen am gymorth cleifion mewnol. Mae ein buddsoddiad parhaus mewn gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl, a fydd yn codi yn 2020-21 i £712 miliwn, yn gwella canlyniadau. Er enghraifft, mae'r buddsoddiad mewn gwasanaethau cymunedol wedi arwain at leihad yn nifer y derbyniadau iechyd meddwl i'r ysbyty dros amser. Ac rydym hefyd yn parhau i weld gostyngiad yn nifer y cleifion sy'n cael eu gosod mewn unedau yn Lloegr. Yn 2018, roedd yn 130 ac yn 2019, roedd wedi gostwng i 96, ac rydym yn gobeithio y bydd hyn yn parhau, y duedd hon ar i lawr.
Ond er ein bod yn canolbwyntio ar ddarparu mwy o gymorth yn y gymuned, bydd angen darpariaeth arbenigol i gleifion mewnol bob amser i gynorthwyo pobl ag anghenion dwys. Ac er ein bod yn darparu cymorth i gleifion mewnol yma yng Nghymru, mewn gwirionedd, mae gennym ddwy uned diogelwch canolig o fewn y GIG yng Nghymru, Tŷ Llywelyn yn y gogledd a Caswell yn y de, ac rydym hefyd yn darparu mynediad i unedau cymorth yn Lloegr. Mae hyn yn caniatáu i gleifion yng Nghymru gael cymorth arbenigol iawn a ddarperir mewn unedau ar gyfer y DU gyfan. Ond rydym yn cydnabod ei bod yn anodd i gleifion a theuluoedd pan gânt eu lleoli ymhell i ffwrdd.
Minister, will you take an intervention?
Weinidog, a wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
Yes, certainly.
Gwnaf, yn sicr.
Sorry, just to illustrate your point because, yes, there is the Caswell Clinic but, actually, they're full already with people. We've got 61 people at my last count, which wasn't very long ago, in England. For example, one of my constituents, because the ward that that person is on is under threat of closure, is now being threatened with a move to Stevenage. To be honest with you, I'm not actually sure I know where Stevenage is, but further and further away from Wales, and they can't get to the few places that we have that are medium secure. We have at least 61 more people who need that kind of support.
Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, dim ond i egluro eich pwynt oherwydd, ydy, mae Clinig Caswell yn bodoli ond mewn gwirionedd, maent yn llawn o bobl eisoes. Mae gennym 61 o bobl yn ôl fy nghyfrif diwethaf, nad oedd yn bell iawn yn ôl, yn Lloegr. Er enghraifft, mae perygl y bydd yn rhaid i un o fy etholwyr symud i Stevenage am fod y ward y mae'r unigolyn arni dan fygythiad i gau. I fod yn onest, nid wyf yn siŵr mewn gwirionedd fy mod yn gwybod ble mae Stevenage, ond ymhellach ac ymhellach i ffwrdd o Gymru, ac nid ydynt yn gallu cyrraedd yr ychydig leoedd sydd gennym sy'n unedau diogelwch canolig. Mae gennym o leiaf 61 yn fwy o bobl sydd angen y math hwnnw o gymorth.
Yes, and I wanted to make the point that we did have the units in Wales; that's the point I was making.
And when a patient's mental health needs are best met in a specialist unit, health boards are looking at the quality. Firstly, decisions are made on the quality and type of specialist care provided to ensure it meets the needs of the individual. Secondly, the commissioner considers the distance from home and any potential impact this might have on the outcomes for the individual. And the final consideration will be the value or overall cost of the unit. So, quality, distance and value in that order are the key factors considered when placing people outside of Wales for specialist mental health in-patient care.
And when patients are placed outside of Wales, consideration is also given to ensure families and relatives can maintain contact whilst their loved one is cared for away from home. I know comments were made about individual cases, which I obviously can't comment on, but those are the procedures that take place. That issue is looked at when placements are made.
We do have arrangements to ensure the quality and safety of the care provided in the specialist units outside of Wales. The NHS Wales national collaborative framework is a formal agreement and mechanism, developed by the NHS Wales collaborative commissioning unit and NHS Wales. It enables all parts of NHS Wales to procure and performance-manage services under pre-agreed standards, costs, terms and conditions. Placements under the national collaborative framework in healthcare settings outside Wales are overseen by the NHS Wales quality assurance improvement team. This provides assurance to health boards and the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee that services are being provided in a safe and high-quality environment.
The NHS Wales quality assurance improvement team also continues to work closely with regulators in England, including the Care Quality Commission. This was the case with the recent suspension of some of the units at St Andrew's Hospital in Northampton. Tripartite meetings between the CQC, NHS England and NHS Wales continue on a monthly basis about the provider.
We published the third and final 'Together for Mental Health' delivery plan in January, and that set out the actions we will take with our partners over the next three years to continue to improve mental health and well-being. The new delivery plan makes a commitment to undertake an audit of current secure in-patient provision, and to develop a secure in-patient strategy for mental health. We are aware of the difficulties that there are. We have committed to commission an independent evaluation, to look at our progress since the publication of the 'Together for Mental Health' strategy in 2012, which will inform our future direction.
And to address the point made by Delyth Jewell, so powerfully—and I was on the committee when we looked at this issue, and we're aware of the huge emotive issues affecting mothers and newborn babies—the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee has been asked to establish mother and baby provision in Wales to enable mothers to access more intensive support when needed. We recently asked them to urgently explore interim provision while longer term arrangements are put in place, which will be located at the Tonna Hospital site, and are expected to be in place by spring 2021. So, again, there is a plan. We will be providing that. And I just want to reiterate how we are—
Oes, ac roeddwn am wneud y pwynt fod gennym yr unedau yng Nghymru; dyna'r pwynt roeddwn yn ei wneud.
A phan fo anghenion iechyd meddwl claf yn cael eu diwallu orau mewn uned arbenigol, mae byrddau iechyd yn edrych ar yr ansawdd. Yn gyntaf, gwneir penderfyniadau ynghylch yr ansawdd a'r math o ofal arbenigol a ddarperir i sicrhau ei fod yn diwallu anghenion yr unigolyn. Yn ail, mae'r comisiynydd yn ystyried y pellter o adref ac unrhyw effaith bosibl y gallai hyn ei chael ar y canlyniadau i'r unigolyn. A'r ystyriaeth derfynol fydd gwerth neu gost gyffredinol yr uned. Felly, ansawdd, pellter a gwerth yn y drefn honno yw'r ffactorau allweddol sy'n cael eu hystyried wrth leoli pobl y tu allan i Gymru ar gyfer gofal iechyd meddwl arbenigol i gleifion mewnol.
A phan fydd cleifion yn cael eu lleoli y tu allan i Gymru, rhoddir ystyriaeth hefyd i sicrhau y gall teuluoedd a pherthnasau gadw mewn cysylltiad tra bod eu hanwyliaid yn derbyn gofal oddi cartref. Gwn fod sylwadau wedi'u gwneud am achosion unigol, ac yn amlwg, ni allaf roi sylwadau arnynt, ond dyna'r gweithdrefnau sydd ar waith. Edrychir ar y mater pan wneir y lleoliadau.
Mae gennym drefniadau i sicrhau ansawdd a diogelwch y gofal a ddarperir yn yr unedau arbenigol y tu allan i Gymru. Mae fframwaith cydweithredol cenedlaethol GIG Cymru yn gytundeb a mecanwaith ffurfiol a ddatblygwyd gan uned comisiynu cydweithredol GIG Cymru a GIG Cymru. Mae'n galluogi pob rhan o GIG Cymru i gaffael a rheoli perfformiad gwasanaethau o dan safonau, costau, telerau ac amodau y cytunwyd arnynt ymlaen llaw. Goruchwylir lleoliadau o dan y fframwaith cydweithredol cenedlaethol mewn lleoliadau gofal iechyd y tu allan i Gymru gan dîm gwella sicrwydd ansawdd GIG Cymru. Mae hyn yn rhoi sicrwydd i fyrddau iechyd a Phwyllgor Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol Cymru fod gwasanaethau'n cael eu darparu mewn amgylchedd diogel o ansawdd uchel.
Mae tîm gwella sicrwydd ansawdd GIG Cymru hefyd yn parhau i weithio'n agos gyda chyrff rheoleiddio yn Lloegr, gan gynnwys y Comisiwn Ansawdd Gofal. Roedd hyn yn wir yn sgil cau rhai o'r unedau yn Ysbyty St Andrew yn Northampton dros dro. Mae cyfarfodydd teirochrog rhwng y Comisiwn Ansawdd Gofal, GIG Lloegr a GIG Cymru yn parhau ar sail fisol ynglŷn â'r darparwr.
Cyhoeddasom y trydydd cynllun cyflawni 'Law yn Llaw at Iechyd Meddwl', sef yr un terfynol, ym mis Ionawr, ac roedd hwnnw'n nodi'r camau y byddwn yn eu cymryd gyda'n partneriaid dros y tair blynedd nesaf i barhau i wella iechyd meddwl a lles meddyliol. Mae'r cynllun cyflawni newydd yn ymrwymo i gynnal archwiliad o'r ddarpariaeth bresennol o unedau diogelwch i gleifion mewnol, ac i ddatblygu strategaeth gadarn ar gyfer cleifion mewnol iechyd meddwl. Rydym yn ymwybodol o'r anawsterau sy'n bodoli. Rydym wedi ymrwymo i gomisiynu gwerthusiad annibynnol i edrych ar ein cynnydd ers cyhoeddi'r strategaeth 'Law yn Llaw at Iechyd Meddwl' yn 2012, a fydd yn llywio ein cyfeiriad yn y dyfodol.
Ac i ateb y pwynt a wnaethpwyd mor rymus gan Delyth Jewell—ac roeddwn ar y pwyllgor pan edrychasom ar y mater hwn, ac rydym yn ymwybodol o'r materion emosiynol enfawr sy'n effeithio ar famau a babanod newydd-anedig—gofynnwyd i Bwyllgor Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol Cymru sefydlu darpariaeth i famau a babanod yng Nghymru i alluogi mamau i gael cymorth mwy dwys pan fo'i angen. Yn ddiweddar, gofynasom iddynt archwilio'r ddarpariaeth dros dro ar frys tra rhoddir trefniadau mwy hirdymor ar waith ar safle Ysbyty Tonna, a disgwylir iddynt fod yn eu lle erbyn gwanwyn 2021. Felly, unwaith eto, mae yna gynllun. Byddwn yn darparu hynny. Ac rwyf am ailadrodd eto sut rydym—
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair.
The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.
Will you take an intervention, Deputy Minister, or are you out of time?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad, Ddirprwy Weinidog, neu a yw eich amser ar ben?
Yes, certainly. Well, I'm just about to finish.
Gwnaf, yn sicr. Wel, rwyf ar fin gorffen.
Go on, I'll let you—. She is out of time.
Ewch amdani, fe wnaf adael i chi—. Mae ei hamser ar ben.
Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I was just going to make the point that whilst welcoming, of course, the interim mother and baby unit in Tonna, Tonna is four and a half hours away from mothers in the north of Wales. Would you agree that we need a bespoke solution for the problem in the north-west in particular? I think the health board is willing to start discussions around that with a view to getting provision in the north as well as in Tonna.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Roeddwn am wneud y pwynt, er fy mod yn croesawu'r uned dros dro ar gyfer mamau a babanod yn Ysbyty Tonna wrth gwrs, mae Tonna bedair awr a hanner i ffwrdd oddi wrth famau yng ngogledd Cymru. A fyddech yn cytuno fod arnom angen ateb pwrpasol ar gyfer y broblem yn y gogledd-orllewin yn arbennig? Rwy'n credu bod y bwrdd iechyd yn barod i ddechrau trafodaethau ynglŷn â hynny gyda'r bwriad o gael darpariaeth yn y gogledd yn ogystal ag yn Ysbyty Tonna.
Certainly, the Tonna Hospital site will not be suitable for women coming from the north, so certainly that's got to be looked at.
So, in any case, I hope I've been able to provide some assurance that we do have plans to look at this whole difficult area, but improving mental health services is an absolute priority for us, and we do have arrangements in place to look at the quality and safety of placements in units in England.
Yn sicr, ni fydd safle Ysbyty Tonna yn addas i fenywod sy'n dod o'r gogledd, felly yn bendant, mae'n rhaid edrych ar hynny.
Felly, beth bynnag, rwy'n gobeithio fy mod wedi gallu rhoi rhywfaint o sicrwydd fod gennym gynlluniau i edrych ar yr holl faes anodd hwn, ond mae gwella gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl yn flaenoriaeth absoliwt inni, ac mae gennym drefniadau ar waith i edrych ar ansawdd a diogelwch lleoliadau mewn unedau yn Lloegr.
Thank you. Can I call on Llyr Gruffydd to reply to the debate?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw ar Llyr Gruffydd i ymateb i'r ddadl?
Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd, a diolch i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl werthfawr yma ac wedi codi materion cwbl ddilys ac o bwys, ac yn enwedig y cyfeiriadau at rai o'r enghreifftiau echrydus rŷn ni, dwi'n ofni, yn dod yn rhy gyfarwydd o lawer â nhw.
Mi wnaf i ychwanegu un elfen arall at y drafodaeth yma hefyd, wrth gloi, oherwydd y flwyddyn ddiwethaf fe holais i fwrdd iechyd Betsi Cadwaladr faint o gleifion iechyd meddwl oedd yn cael eu danfon i ysbytai yn Lloegr ac, wrth gwrs, mae yna ddwsinau sy'n gadael y gogledd i gartrefi ac ysbytai iechyd meddwl ar hyd a lled Lloegr. Mewn llawer o'r rhain, wrth gwrs, mae'r gofal sy'n cael ei ddarparu yn addas, er, wrth gwrs, ei fod e yn bellach o adref nag y byddai unrhyw un ohonom ni yn ei ddymuno. Ond yn ôl y Care Quality Commission, sy'n asesu safonau gofal yn Lloegr, roedd llawer o'r sefydliadau lle danfonwyd cleifion o ogledd Cymru unai'n inadequate neu'n requiring improvement. Nawr, mae bwrdd iechyd Betsi Cadwaladr yn gwario miliynau lawer ar wasanaethau iechyd meddwl, a llawer o'r pres yna, wrth gwrs, yn mynd i'r sefydliadau yma yn Lloegr. Mae gen i bryder mawr am lefel y gofal yn yr ychydig sefydliadau yma. Mae yn gofyn cwestiwn o ba oruchwyliaeth sydd yno o'r cleifion mwyaf bregus yna os ydyn nhw gannoedd o filltiroedd i ffwrdd o'u teuluoedd, ac yn wir, gannoedd o filltiroedd i ffwrdd o'r bwrdd iechyd sydd yn eu gosod nhw yn y llefydd yna.
Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer, and thank you to everyone who has contributed to this valuable debate and raised very valid and important issues, and particularly the referrals to some of the appalling examples that I fear we're becoming far too used to.
I'll just add one further element to this debate too, in concluding, because last year I asked Betsi Cadwaladr how many mental health patients were being sent to hospitals in England and, of course, there are dozens who leave north Wales for homes and mental health units across England. In many of these, the care provided is appropriate, although it is further from home than any one of us would want to see. But according to the Care Quality Commission, which assesses care standards in England, many of the units where patients from north Wales were sent were either inadequate or requiring improvement. Betsi Cadwaladr health board spends millions of pounds on mental health services and much of that goes to these institutions in England. I have a very grave concern about the level of care provided in these few institutions. It does pose a question as to what oversight there is of those most vulnerable patients if they are many hundreds of miles away from their families, and indeed hundreds of miles away from the health board that places them at those locations.
Two care homes in particular—Cygnet Health Care's Wyke in Bradford, and Partnerships in Care's Kneesworth site—were listed as inadequate by the CQC after its inspection. A further three were found to require improvement. And these are serious failings. Wyke was deemed to be inadequate when it came to safety, effectiveness, caring and being well-led. And in terms of safety, that meant patients were put at risk in terms of monitoring and managing medicines. Now, I question whether the health board was aware of that, and if it was aware of that, well, clearly, there's a question to be asked as to why those patients were being sent there. Now, as I said earlier, even if the services are or were adequate—
Cafodd dau gartref gofal yn benodol—cartref Wyke Cygnet Health Care yn Bradford, a safle Kneesworth Partnerships in Care—eu rhestru fel rhai annigonol gan y Comisiwn Ansawdd Gofal ar ôl ei arolwg. Casglwyd bod angen gwella tri arall. Ac mae'r rhain yn fethiannau difrifol. Barnwyd bod Wyke yn annigonol o ran diogelwch, effeithiolrwydd, gofal ac arweinyddiaeth dda. Ac o ran diogelwch, roedd hynny'n golygu bod cleifion yn wynebu risg o ran monitro a rheoli meddyginiaethau. Nawr, rwy'n cwestiynu a oedd y bwrdd iechyd yn ymwybodol o hynny, ac os oedd yn ymwybodol, wel, yn amlwg, mae cwestiwn i'w ofyn ynglŷn â pham yr anfonwyd y cleifion hynny yno. Nawr, fel y dywedais yn gynharach, hyd yn oed os yw, neu os oedd y gwasanaethau'n ddigonol—
I'm sorry, would you take an intervention?
Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, a wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
I will, yes, although I'm already over time.
Gwnaf, iawn, er bod fy amser eisoes wedi dod i ben.
Well, I was just going to say that I can partly answer that for you, because it's deemed, to be frank, second-class citizenship, because there is no other alternative. There's nothing in England that they can go to, and I've met some great people who are very well aware that the settings are not appropriate, like the ones you've just mentioned, but they have no other alternative, because we have nothing in Wales and there's nothing else in England, apart from places even further and further away. And it's a shame because we wouldn't treat people with cancer or heart conditions in the way that we treat people with mental health issues.
Wel, roeddwn am ddweud y gallaf ateb hynny'n rhannol i chi, oherwydd bernir mai dinasyddiaeth eilradd ydyw, a bod yn onest, oherwydd nid oes dewis arall. Nid oes dim byd yn Lloegr y gallant droi ato, ac rwyf wedi cyfarfod â phobl wych sy'n ymwybodol iawn nad yw'r lleoliadau'n briodol, fel y rhai rydych newydd sôn amdanynt, ond nid oes dewis arall ganddynt, gan nad oes gennym ddim yng Nghymru ac nid oes unrhyw beth arall yn Lloegr, ar wahân i leoedd hyd yn oed yn bellach i ffwrdd. Ac mae'n drueni gan na fyddem yn trin pobl â chanser neu gyflyrau'r galon yn y ffordd rydym yn trin pobl â phroblemau iechyd meddwl.
Thank you for that. And, also, of course, it reminds me of another point, in that why is it always one-way traffic? When we want to access services, we have to go to England. Why don't we have the aspiration to actually develop some of those specialisms here in Wales, so that people in England come to us? It doesn't have to be a one-way street. Now, I appreciate sometimes it may need to be, but not always, not always. And this motion is our opportunity to send a clear message in that respect, and I would urge all Members to support Plaid Cymru's motion.
Diolch am hynny. A hefyd, wrth gwrs, mae'n fy atgoffa o bwynt arall, sef pam y mae bob amser yn draffig un ffordd? Pan fyddwn eisiau manteisio ar wasanaethau, rhaid inni fynd i Loegr. Pam nad oes gennym uchelgais i ddatblygu rhai o'r arbenigeddau hynny yma yng Nghymru, fel bod pobl yn Lloegr yn dod atom ni? Nid oes raid iddo fod yn draffig un ffordd. Nawr, rwy'n derbyn fod yn rhaid iddo fod o bryd i'w gilydd, ond nid bob amser, nid bob amser. A'r cynnig hwn yw ein cyfle i anfon neges glir yn hynny o beth, a hoffwn annog pob Aelod i gefnogi cynnig Plaid Cymru.
Thank you very much. The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Therefore, we defer voting until voting time.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Y cwestiwn yw a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Felly, gohiriwn y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
I am prepared to accept that now is voting time, unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung. No? That's good. So, we move to the Welsh Conservative debate on looked-after children, and I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Darren Millar. If the proposal is not agreed to, we will vote on the amendments tabled to the motion. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 41, no abstentions, 10 against. Therefore, the motion is agreed, and all the amendments fall.
Rwy'n barod i dderbyn ei bod hi'n gyfnod pleidleisio yn awr, oni bai bod tri Aelod yn dymuno i'r gloch gael ei chanu. Na? Da iawn. Felly, symudwn at ddadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ar blant sy'n derbyn gofal, a galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar. Os na dderbynnir y cynnig, byddwn yn pleidleisio ar y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i'r cynnig. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig 41, neb yn ymatal, 10 yn erbyn. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig, ac mae'r holl welliannau'n methu.
NDM7287 - Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - Plant Sy'n Derbyn Gofal - Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 41, Yn erbyn: 10, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig
NDM7287 - Welsh Conservatives Debate - Looked After Children - Motion without amendment: For: 41, Against: 10, Abstain: 0
Motion has been agreed
We now move to the debate by Plaid Cymru on eating disorders, and I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian. Again, if the proposal is not agreed to, we vote on the amendments tabled to the motion. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 43, no abstentions, 8 against. Therefore, the motion is agreed.
Symudwn yn awr at y ddadl gan Blaid Cymru ar anhwylderau bwyta, a galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw Siân Gwenllian. Unwaith eto, os na dderbynnir y cynnig, byddwn yn pleidleisio ar y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i'r cynnig. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig 43, neb yn ymatal, 8 yn erbyn. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig.
NDM7288 - Dadl Plaid Cymru - Anhwylderau Bwyta Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 43, Yn erbyn: 8, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig
NDM7288 - Plaid Cymru Debate - Eating Disorders - Motion without amendment: For: 43, Against: 8, Abstain: 0
Motion has been agreed
We now move to vote on the Plaid Cymru debate on mental health services. And I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian. Again, if the proposals is not agreed to, we will vote on the amendments tabled to the motion. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 11, no abstentions, 40 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed to, and we will now proceed to vote on the amendments.
Symudwn yn awr at bleidlais ar ddadl Plaid Cymru ar wasanaethau iechyd meddwl. A galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw Siân Gwenllian. Unwaith eto, os na dderbynnir y cynnig, byddwn yn pleidleisio ar y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i'r cynnig. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig 11, neb yn ymatal, 40 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd y cynnig, a symudwn ymlaen yn awr i bleidleisio ar y gwelliannau.
NDM7289 - Dadl Plaid Cymru - Gwasanaethau Iechyd Meddwl - Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 11, Yn erbyn: 40, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig
NDM7289 - Plaid Cymru Debate - Mental Health Services - Motion without amendment: For: 11, Against: 40, Abstain: 0
Motion has been rejected
If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. So, I call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 31, 1 abstention, 19 against. Therefore, amendment 1 is agreed, and amendment 2 is deselected.
Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-ddethol. Felly, galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 1 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig 31, 1 yn ymatal, 19 yn erbyn. Felly, derbyniwyd gwelliant 1, a chaiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-ddethol.
NDM7289 - Gwelliant 1: O blaid: 31, Yn erbyn: 19, Ymatal: 1
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant
NDM7289 - Amendment 1: For: 31, Against: 19, Abstain: 1
Amendment has been agreed
Cafodd gwelliant 2 ei ddad-ddethol.
Amendment 2 deselected.
So, we now call for a vote on the motion as amended.
Felly, galwn yn awr am bleidlais ar y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd.
Cynnig NDM7289 fel y’i diwygiwyd:
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn nodi'r pryderon ynghylch ansawdd y gofal a godir gan berthnasau cleifion o Gymru mewn unedau iechyd meddwl cleifion mewnol yn Lloegr.
2. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:
a) sicrhau bod pellter o’r cartref yn cael ei ystyried yn ffactor allweddol ar gyfer pobl sydd angen cymorth iechyd meddwl arbenigol fel cleifion mewnol
b) sicrhau bod trefniadau cadarn ar waith i fonitro ansawdd a diogelwch lleoliadau mewn unedau yn Lloegr, gan gynnwys gweithio ar y cyd â’r Comisiwn Ansawdd Gofal.
Motion NDM7289 as amended:
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Notes the concerns about quality of care raised by relatives of Welsh patients in inpatient mental health units in England.
2. Calls on Welsh Government to:
a) ensure that distance from home is considered as a key factor for people who require specialist mental health in-patient support
b) ensure robust arrangements are in place to monitor the quality and safety of placements in units in England, including collaborative working with the Care Quality Commission.
Open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 40, 11 abstentions, no against. Therefore, the motion as amended is agreed.
Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig 40, 11 yn ymatal, neb yn erbyn. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd.
NDM7289 - Dadl Plaid Cymru - Gwasanaethau Iechyd Meddwl - Cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio : O blaid: 40, Yn erbyn: 0, Ymatal: 11
Derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd
NDM7289 - Plaid Cymru Debate - Mental Health Services Motion as amended: For: 40, Against: 0, Abstain: 11
Motion as amended has been agreed
We will now move to the short debate.
Symudwn ymlaen yn awr at y ddadl fer.
Daeth Suzy Davies i’r Gadair.
Suzy Davies took the Chair.
Yr eitem nesaf yw eitem 10—dadl fer gan Jenny Rathbone, os dwi'n iawn fan hyn. Galwaf arni hi i siarad am y pwnc a ddewiswyd ganddi hi.
The next item is item 10—the short debate. And I call on Jenny Rathbone to speak to the topic that she has chosen.
Dangoswyd sleidiau i gyd-fynd â’r drafodaeth.
Slides were shown to accompany the debate.
Diolch. Thank you very much, acting Presiding Officer. I've chosen the topic of 'Is obesity a disease?' (a) because today is World Obesity Day, (b) because today the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health reports that obesity continues to rise, and it remains the case that over one in four four and five-year-olds are obese—a pretty damning and sobering fact. And thirdly, when I met Novo Nordisk last week—a pharmaceutical company best known for their work on diabetes—I was asked whether I considered obesity to be a disease, and I said I'd need to think about it and get back to them. The reason for my reticence is that I was reluctant to medicalise what I've always seen as a social, political and economic problem, generated by an obesogencic food industry, and the overbearing dominance of the motor car over the last 60 years.
So, what is obesity? It may be rather hard for you to read but I'm very grateful to Rachel Batterham, who's the professor of obesity at University College London, for allowing me to use some of the slides from her recent presentation to the Royal College of Physicians, who, as you may recall, are the organisation that have led the way on getting the ban on smoking, and are also campaigning very, very hard on getting a ban on ensuring that we deal with the alcohol industry as well. So, the Royal College of Physicians is an important organisation. Anyway, the definition of obesity, which is a worldwide problem, is a disease in which excess body fat has accumulated to such an extent that health may be adversely affected.
It isn't just an inconvenience—obesity actually shortens your life by between three and 10 years. Obesity prevents people from living well, and we spend 10 per cent of the NHS budget alone on supporting people with diabetes. You may not be able to read the slide, but it doesn't just cause diabetes of the type 2 variety, but also cardiovascular disease, stroke, high blood pressure, coronary artery disease, and heart failure, and many other things besides, including infertility, incontinence, depression, anxiety and asthma.
Few people would argue, then, against the need to reduce obesity, given its life-threatening impact. Indeed, it has the capacity, in my view, to overwhelm the national health service. Now, the answer apparently is simple: if we eat less and exercise more, we get a proper energy balance, and we retain the right weight for our size. In the 1940s, the health advice was to sleep at least eight hours a day, ensure you do recreation—i.e. a complete change from the daily work, for the body and mind—the right food in the right quantities, and regular exercise. And that, during the second world war, was when the population was at its healthiest—but that was down to rationing. But we can see that the political, social and economic landscape has deteriorated enormously since the 1940s, and obesity continues to rise and rise. How many of us adhere to the mantra of the 1940s today, in a world that never sleeps?
So, the question we have to ask ourselves is: is the Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales programme bold and radical enough to deal with the size of this problem, and reverse our obesogenic lifestyle? Wales is applauded by obesity experts for being prepared to use legislation to change the food environment, in contrast to the dither and delay at the other end of the M4. We have to stop the food industry from targeting children to eat the wrong things: that is completely unethical. And I also hope that we will be able to use the reregulation of the buses, which is coming up in the next 12 months, as an opportunity to also outlaw junk food advertising on public transport. I think it's very important that we use our public procurement muscle to ban junk food from our NHS health centres and hospitals, and I applaud Cardiff and the Vale health board for showing the way by removing all junk food from 13 of its hospital cafes and canteens, which it will be extending to its two community hospitals later this year. This initiative has actually increased their footfall and their profitability, and that shows that all health boards ought to be following that pathway, and I expect we will get a national hospital retail standard to promote the healthy options in all the retail outlets on NHS estates. Cardiff and the Vale have developed an audit tool to track that what they are delivering is what it says on the tin, which is pretty important given that if you're eating the wrong food, you're going to be costing the health service even more time and money.
Diolch. Diolch yn fawr iawn, Lywydd dros dro. Rwyf wedi dewis y pwnc 'Ai clefyd yw gordewdra? ' (a) oherwydd ei bod hi'n Ddiwrnod Gordewdra'r Byd heddiw, (b) oherwydd bod y Coleg Brenhinol Pediatreg ac Iechyd Plant yn adrodd heddiw fod lefelau gordewdra'n parhau i gynyddu, ac mae'n dal yn wir fod dros un o bob pedwar o blant pedair a phump oed yn ordew—ffaith eithaf damniol a sobreiddiol. Ac yn drydydd, pan gyfarfûm â Novo Nordisk yr wythnos diwethaf—cwmni fferyllol sy'n fwyaf adnabyddus am eu gwaith ar ddiabetes—gofynnwyd i mi a oeddwn yn ystyried bod gordewdra yn glefyd, a dywedais y byddai angen i mi feddwl am hynny a dod yn ôl atynt. Y rheswm pam fy mod yn gyndyn i ateb oedd nad oeddwn am feddyginiaethu'r hyn rwyf bob amser wedi'i weld fel problem gymdeithasol, wleidyddol ac economaidd, wedi'i chreu gan ddiwydiant bwyd sy'n tueddu i achosi gordewdra, a thra-arglwyddiaeth y car dros y 60 mlynedd diwethaf.
Felly, beth yw gordewdra? Efallai ei bod braidd yn anodd i chi ddarllen ond rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i Rachel Batterham, sy'n athro gordewdra yng Ngholeg Prifysgol Llundain, am ganiatáu i mi ddefnyddio rhai o'r sleidiau o'i chyflwyniad diweddar i Goleg Brenhinol y Meddygon sef y sefydliad a arweiniodd y ffordd, fel y cofiwch o bosibl, o ran sicrhau'r gwaharddiad ar ysmygu, ac sydd hefyd yn ymgyrchu'n galed iawn ar gael gwaharddiad i sicrhau ein bod yn mynd i'r afael â'r diwydiant alcohol yn ogystal. Felly, mae Coleg Brenhinol y Meddygon yn sefydliad pwysig. Beth bynnag, y diffiniad o ordewdra, sy'n broblem fyd-eang, yw clefyd lle mae braster gormodol wedi cronni yn y corff i'r fath raddau fel y gall niweidio iechyd.
Nid anghyfleustra'n unig ydyw—mae gordewdra'n byrhau hyd oes rhwng tair a 10 mlynedd. Mae gordewdra'n atal pobl rhag byw'n dda, ac rydym yn gwario 10 y cant o gyllideb y GIG ar gefnogi pobl sydd â diabetes. Efallai na fyddwch yn gallu darllen y sleid, ond nid diabetes math 2 yn unig y mae'n ei achosi, ond clefyd cardiofasgwlaidd, strôc, pwysedd gwaed uchel, clefyd rhydwelïau coronaidd, a methiant y galon, a llawer o bethau eraill heblaw hynny, gan gynnwys anffrwythlondeb, anymataliaeth, iselder, gorbryder ac asthma.
Ychydig o bobl a fyddai'n dadlau, felly, yn erbyn yr angen i leihau gordewdra, o ystyried ei effaith yn bygwth bywydau. Yn wir, mae ganddo'r gallu, yn fy marn i, i orlethu'r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Nawr, mae'n ymddangos bod yr ateb yn syml: os ydym yn bwyta llai ac yn gwneud mwy o ymarfer corff, cawn gydbwysedd cywir o egni, a byddwn yn cario'r pwysau cywir ar gyfer ein maint. Yn y 1940au, y cyngor iechyd oedd cysgu o leiaf wyth awr y dydd, sicrhau eich bod yn cael amser hamdden—h.y. rhywbeth sy'n newid llwyr o'ch gwaith bob dydd, ar gyfer y corff a'r meddwl—y meintiau cywir o'r bwyd cywir, ac ymarfer corff rheolaidd. A hynny yn ystod yr ail ryfel byd, pan oedd y boblogaeth ar ei mwyaf iach—ond dogni oedd y rheswm am hynny. Ond gallwn weld bod y dirwedd wleidyddol, gymdeithasol ac economaidd wedi dirywio'n aruthrol ers y 1940au, a bod lefelau gordewdra'n parhau i godi a chodi. Faint ohonom sy'n glynu at fantra'r 1940au heddiw, mewn byd nad yw byth yn cysgu?
Felly, y cwestiwn sy'n rhaid inni ei ofyn i ni'n hunain yw: a yw'r rhaglen Pwysau Iach: Cymru Iach yn ddigon beiddgar a radical i ymdopi â maint y broblem, a gwrthdroi ein ffordd o fyw obesogenig? Caiff Cymru ei chanmol gan arbenigwyr ar ordewdra am fod yn barod i ddefnyddio deddfwriaeth i newid yr amgylchedd bwyd, mewn cyferbyniad â'r tin-droi a'r oedi ar ben arall yr M4. Rhaid inni atal y diwydiant bwyd rhag targedu plant i fwyta'r pethau anghywir: mae hynny'n gwbl anfoesol. Ac rwyf hefyd yn gobeithio y gallwn ddefnyddio dadreoleiddio bysiau, sy'n dod yn ystod y 12 mis nesaf, fel cyfle hefyd i wahardd hysbysebu bwyd sothach ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Credaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn ein bod yn defnyddio ein cyhyrau caffael cyhoeddus i wahardd bwyd sothach o ganolfannau iechyd ac ysbytai'r GIG, ac rwy'n cymeradwyo bwrdd iechyd Caerdydd a'r Fro am ddangos y ffordd drwy gael gwared ar yr holl fwyd sothach o 13 o'i gaffis a'i ffreuturau ysbyty, a bydd yn ymestyn hyn i gynnwys ei ddau ysbyty cymunedol yn ddiweddarach eleni. Mae'r fenter hon wedi cynyddu nifer eu cwsmeriaid a'u proffidioldeb, ac mae hynny'n dangos y dylai pob bwrdd iechyd ddilyn y llwybr hwnnw, ac rwy'n disgwyl y byddwn yn cael safon adwerthu genedlaethol ar gyfer ysbytai i hyrwyddo'r dewisiadau iach yn yr holl safleoedd gwerthu ar ystadau'r GIG. Mae Caerdydd a'r Fro wedi datblygu offeryn archwilio i sicrhau mai'r hyn y maent yn dweud eu bod yn ei gyflenwi yw'r hyn sy'n cael ei gyflenwi, sy'n eithaf pwysig o ystyried y byddwch yn costio mwy fyth mewn amser ac arian i'r gwasanaeth iechyd os ydych chi'n bwyta'r bwyd anghywir.
So, we absolutely need to apply the same rigorous standards for public procurement in our schools, and I hope that the refreshed healthy eating regulations are going to have some teeth, because with so many of our children living in poverty, and families that are most vulnerable to choosing on price alone, even if nutritionally they are very poor value, it means that the free school breakfasts and nourishing school lunches are a lifeline for such children. In addition, the school-holiday eating programme ensures that these same children are not starving during the school holidays.
So, I want to see governors and local authorities being much more rigorous in ensuring that what is being served up for children in our schools is compliant with the healthy-eating regulations. Estyn has a sort of hands-off role in this, in ensuring that governors and local authorities are doing that job, but don't themselves inspect, and in my experience, there's a great deal of work to be done in that area.
Now, obviously, it isn't just our relationship with food that needs to change, it's also that we need to do more physical activity. I know that the Deputy Minister is leading the charge on ensuring that £30 million in next year's budget allocated to local authorities to increase active travel routes will be used not just on nice-to-have tourist paths, but is starting to shift the obesogenic environment dominated by the car. In Cardiff, Ysgol Gynradd Gymraeg Hamadryad and Howardian Primary School have led the way on having active travel plans, but we really do need to expect all schools to have them in place as well. And I wondered, therefore, what conversation the Welsh Government has had with local authorities about implementing vehicle exclusion zones around all schools, as recommended by Sustrans, so that all pupils have to walk, scoot or cycle to school for the last part of the journey. This, I feel, should be seen as an integral part of the package, to make 20 mph the default speed limit in built-up areas, and change the way we use our road space. That is what I assume the £4 million on the road safety grant will be applied to, and perhaps the Deputy Minister could clarify that, or, equally, the £5 million for Safe Routes in Communities grant in next year's budget as well. We have to recognise that children can be enthusiastic ambassadors for being more active. They can help the adults in their lives to adopt more active lifestyles.
While I fully support all these measures, I now need to address why obesity isn't just a condition caused by lifestyle choices that we want to reverse. We also have to treat it as a disease in the same way we do with diabetes or any other disease. First of all, the stigma attached to obesity. The UK Parliament's all-party group on obesity has released the results of a survey this week on the stigma associated with obesity. The survey confirms that people living with obesity face high levels of stigma, which impacts on their lives, work and leisure, their personal relationships, and their likelihood of seeking medical advice from their GP. Seventy-one per cent of people with obesity felt stigmatised when seeking health advice or support. Many people, including doctors, do not understand that obesity is a chronic disease. They see it as a simple lack of willpower, laziness or refusal to eat less and move more. But I think we have to challenge that attitude because it simply isn't acknowledging the extent of obesity, which has to do with more than simply environmental factors.
If we can't prevent obesity, then we have an ethical duty to treat it. Some of the treatments that we offer to people who are overweight or obese are frankly ineffective, as this summary of a whole host of research papers demonstrates, were you to be able to see it. The conclusion of these academic papers is that two thirds of the people who submit themselves to dieting regain more weight than originally, before they went on a diet in the first place. So, why is that? Well, I think that it has to do with the fact that, originally, we lived in much more difficult circumstances than we do today. We are hard-wired to treat dieting as a famine, for which the only rational response is to recover the weight lost as soon as the opportunity arises. In addition to that, some of the challenges people face are genetic. Whether we are thin or fat is highly influenced by the genetic make-up of our parents. Does that mean that, as more of the population becomes obese, more of the children that we have also become obese? We have to start thinking about what our response needs to be.
The most extreme response, if you like, is bariatric surgery, but it is recommended by the medical experts as the most effective treatment for people with severe obesity. A close friend of mine, no longer with us, did have bariatric surgery, and it certainly did transform his appearance, his weight and his ability to live an active life. So, I think there is an enormous benefit to classifying obesity as a disease, because it would ensure, then, that we have a clinical pathway for treating these very complex cases. Bariatric surgery for treating people with severe obesity is associated with sustained weight loss over 20 years. In 95 per cent of cases, it reversed the patients' type 2 diabetes and changed their relationship with food, as well as, self-evidently, making it easier for them to get around.
The Portuguese Government is the only Government in the world to officially recognise obesity as a disease, although there is a host of medical organisations who commend this as a way of improving the way we treat diabetes. Elsewhere, the Italian Parliament voted to recognise obesity as a disease following a campaign by the obesity and diabetes cross-party group.
To conclude, I think we have to recognise that for some people who have a genetic predisposition to obesity, the services need to be tailored to help those people avoid the most serious consequences. But that does not, and should not, absolve us from our political duty to address the social and economic causes of our obesogenic environment, which will otherwise reduce people's life chances and, in my view, could cause the NHS to collapse.
Felly, mae gwir angen inni osod yr un safonau cadarn ar gyfer caffael cyhoeddus yn ein hysgolion, ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y rheoliadau bwyta'n iach newydd yn cael eu cryfhau, oherwydd gyda chynifer o'n plant yn byw mewn tlodi, a theuluoedd sy'n agored iawn i ddewis ar sail pris yn unig, hyd yn oed os nad oes fawr o werth maethlon i'r bwyd, mae'n golygu bod brecwastau ysgol am ddim a chiniawau ysgol maethlon yn achubiaeth i blant o'r fath. Yn ogystal, mae'r rhaglen bwyta yn ystod gwyliau ysgol yn sicrhau nad yw'r un plant yn llwgu yn ystod gwyliau'r ysgol.
Felly, rwyf am weld llywodraethwyr ac awdurdodau lleol yn mynd ati'n llawer mwy trylwyr i sicrhau bod yr hyn sy'n cael ei gyflwyno i blant yn ein hysgolion yn cydymffurfio â'r rheoliadau bwyta'n iach. Mae gan Estyn ryw fath o rôl anuniongyrchol yn hyn, o ran sicrhau bod llywodraethwyr ac awdurdodau lleol yn gwneud y gwaith hwnnw, ond nid ydynt hwy eu hunain yn arolygu, ac yn fy mhrofiad i, mae llawer iawn o waith i'w wneud yn y maes hwnnw.
Nawr, yn amlwg, nid ein perthynas â bwyd yn unig sydd angen ei newid, mae angen inni wneud mwy o weithgarwch corfforol hefyd. Gwn fod y Dirprwy Weinidog ar flaen y gad yn sicrhau bod £30 miliwn yng nghyllideb y flwyddyn nesaf a ddyranwyd i awdurdodau lleol i gynyddu llwybrau teithio llesol yn cael ei ddefnyddio nid yn unig ar lwybrau braf i'w cael ar gyfer twristiaid, ond i ddechrau symud yr amgylchedd obesogenig sy'n cael ei ddominyddu gan y car. Yng Nghaerdydd, mae Ysgol Gynradd Gymraeg Hamadryad ac Ysgol Gynradd Howardian wedi arwain y ffordd ar gael cynlluniau teithio llesol, ond mae gwir angen inni ddisgwyl i bob ysgol eu rhoi ar waith hefyd. Ac roeddwn yn meddwl felly pa sgwrs y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i chael gydag awdurdodau lleol ynglŷn â gweithredu parthau gwahardd cerbydau o gwmpas pob ysgol, yn unol ag argymhelliad Sustrans, fel bod pob disgybl yn gorfod cerdded, neu feicio neu fynd ar sgwter i'r ysgol ar gyfer rhan olaf y daith. Teimlaf y dylid ystyried hyn yn rhan annatod o'r pecyn, i wneud 20 mya yn gyfyngiad cyflymder diofyn mewn ardaloedd adeiledig, a newid y ffordd rydym yn defnyddio ein ffyrdd. Rwy'n tybio mai ar hynny y defnyddir y £4 miliwn ar y grant diogelwch ar y ffyrdd, ac efallai y gallai'r Dirprwy Weinidog egluro hynny, neu yn yr un modd, y £5 miliwn ar gyfer y grant Llwybrau Diogel mewn Cymunedau yng nghyllideb y flwyddyn nesaf. Rhaid inni gydnabod y gall plant fod yn llysgenhadon brwd dros fod yn fwy egnïol. Gallant helpu'r oedolion yn eu bywydau i fabwysiadu ffyrdd mwy egnïol o fyw.
Er fy mod yn llwyr gefnogi'r holl fesurau hyn, mae angen imi fynd i'r afael yn awr â pham nad yw gordewdra yn ddim ond cyflwr a achosir gan ddewisiadau ffordd o fyw rydym am eu gwrthdroi. Mae'n rhaid inni ei drin fel clefyd hefyd yn yr un ffordd ag y gwnawn gyda diabetes neu unrhyw glefyd arall. Yn gyntaf oll, y stigma sy'n gysylltiedig â gordewdra. Mae grŵp trawsbleidiol Senedd y DU ar ordewdra wedi rhyddhau canlyniadau arolwg yr wythnos hon ar y stigma sy'n gysylltiedig â gordewdra. Mae'r arolwg yn cadarnhau bod pobl sy'n byw gyda gordewdra yn wynebu lefelau uchel o stigma, sy'n effeithio ar eu bywydau, eu gwaith a'u hamdden, eu perthynas ag eraill, ac ar ba mor debygol ydynt o ofyn am gyngor meddygol gan eu meddyg teulu. Roedd 71 y cant o bobl a oedd yn ordew yn teimlo stigma wrth ofyn am gyngor neu gymorth iechyd. Mae llawer o bobl, gan gynnwys meddygon, yn methu deall bod gordewdra yn glefyd cronig. Maent yn ei weld fel diffyg grym ewyllys, diogi neu amharodrwydd i fwyta llai a symud mwy. Ond rwy'n credu bod yn rhaid inni herio'r agwedd honno oherwydd nid yw'n cydnabod maint problem gordewdra, sy'n ymwneud â mwy na ffactorau amgylcheddol yn unig.
Os na allwn atal gordewdra, mae gennym ddyletswydd foesol i'w drin. Mae rhai o'r triniaethau a gynigiwn i bobl sydd dros bwysau neu'n ordew yn aneffeithiol a dweud y gwir, fel y dengys y crynodeb hwn o doreth o bapurau ymchwil, pe baech yn gallu ei weld. Casgliad y papurau academaidd hyn yw bod dwy ran o dair o'r bobl sy'n mynd ar ddeiet yn adennill mwy o bwysau na'r hyn roeddent yn ei gario'n wreiddiol, cyn iddynt fynd ar ddeiet yn y lle cyntaf. Felly, pam hynny? Wel, credaf fod a wnelo hyn â'r ffaith ein bod, yn wreiddiol, yn byw mewn amgylchiadau llawer mwy anodd na heddiw. Rydym wedi ein cyflyru i drin deiet fel newyn, a'r unig ymateb rhesymegol i hynny yw adfer y pwysau a gollwyd cyn gynted ag y daw cyfle. Yn ogystal â hynny, mae rhai o'r heriau y mae pobl yn eu hwynebu yn enetig. Mae cyfansoddiad genetig ein rhieni yn dylanwadu'n fawr ar ba mor denau neu dew ydym ni. A yw hynny'n golygu, wrth i fwy o'r boblogaeth fynd yn ordew, fod mwy o'r plant a gawn hefyd yn mynd yn ordew? Mae'n rhaid inni ddechrau meddwl beth ddylai ein hymateb fod.
Yr ymateb mwyaf eithafol, os mynnwch, yw llawdriniaeth fariatrig, ond caiff ei hargymell gan yr arbenigwyr meddygol fel y driniaeth fwyaf effeithiol ar gyfer pobl sy'n ordew iawn. Cafodd cyfaill agos i mi, nad yw gyda ni mwyach, lawdriniaeth fariatrig, ac yn sicr fe wnaeth drawsnewid ei ymddangosiad, ei bwysau a'i allu i fyw bywyd egnïol. Felly, credaf fod budd enfawr i ddosbarthu gordewdra fel clefyd, oherwydd byddai'n sicrhau felly fod gennym lwybr clinigol ar gyfer trin yr achosion cymhleth hyn. Mae cysylltiad rhwng llawdriniaeth fariatrig ar gyfer trin pobl sy'n ordew iawn a llwyddiant i gadw'r pwysau i lawr yn barhaol dros 20 mlynedd. Mewn 95 y cant o achosion, llwyddodd i wrthdroi diabetes math 2 cleifion a newidiodd eu perthynas â bwyd, yn ogystal â'i gwneud yn haws iddynt symud o gwmpas wrth gwrs.
Llywodraeth Portiwgal yw'r unig Lywodraeth yn y byd sy'n cydnabod gordewdra yn swyddogol fel clefyd, er bod llu o gyrff meddygol yn cymeradwyo hyn fel ffordd o wella'r ffordd rydym yn trin diabetes. Mewn mannau eraill, pleidleisiodd Senedd yr Eidal o blaid cydnabod gordewdra fel clefyd yn dilyn ymgyrch gan grŵp trawsbleidiol ar ordewdra a diabetes.
I gloi, credaf fod yn rhaid inni gydnabod bod angen teilwra'r gwasanaethau i helpu rhai pobl sydd â thuedd enetig i fod yn ordew er mwyn eu helpu i osgoi'r canlyniadau mwyaf difrifol. Ond nid yw, ac ni ddylai hynny ein rhyddhau o'n dyletswydd wleidyddol i fynd i'r afael ag achosion cymdeithasol ac economaidd ein hamgylchedd obesogenig, a fydd fel arall yn lleihau cyfleoedd bywyd pobl ac yn fy marn i, gallai beri i'r GIG chwalu.
Diolch, Jenny. Galwaf nawr ar Ddirprwy Weinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth i ymateb i'r ddadl—Lee Waters.
Thank you, Jenny. I now call on the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport to reply to the debate—Lee Waters.
Diolch yn fawr. I'd like to thank Jenny Rathbone for keeping the spotlight on this important issue, from the work that she is doing on the cross-party group on food and the cross-party group on active travel as well as the work in her own constituency. She is continually highlighting the causes and consequences of obesity and is an important voice in our Senedd on these matters.
As she outlined in her speech, we already have around 600,000 adults aged 16 or over in Wales who are obese, and, more worryingly, 60,000 of those are severely obese. That number is increasing, with an estimated 10,000 more adults becoming obese each year. Over a quarter of the children in Wales aged four to five are overweight, including 12.4 per cent who are obese. These are disturbing figures. To directly answer the question that Jenny Rathbone has posed in this debate on whether obesity is a disease, that is a conclusion that the Royal College of Physicians have reached, as has the World Health Organization, which has classified obesity as a disease since 2016. So, in a sense, the question has been addressed by leading authorities.
We don't feel that recognising obesity here in Wales as a disease at this moment would lead to a different service response than we are already committed to taking forward. Our role is on the prevention and early intervention, as well as addressing some of the leading causes of obesity that Jenny Rathbone outlined, namely poverty, the environment and diet. For both adults and children, obesity rates rise with deprivation, with the prevalence 6 per cent higher among four to five-year-olds living in the most deprived areas, compared to the least deprived areas in Wales, rising to 13 per cent for adults.
Car-dominated streets contribute to our obesity crisis. Heavy traffic streets create what's become known as 'obesogenic environments'—places that discourage physical activity and contribute to the problem of sedentary lifestyles. One in four Welsh adults are now classed as obese, but that number drops significantly among those who are physically active. So, getting people out of their cars for short journeys produces multiple benefits, from cleaner air and less congested roads, to improved mental health and busier local shops.
And to try and answer the question that Jenny Rathbone posed about exclusion zones around schools, we have just refreshed the guidance for the Safe Routes in Communities project to put a far greater weighting on interventions that encourage behaviour change. And I've said that I met with all the road safety officers in Wales and set out my very clear expectations to them that we didn't simply want engineering-based solutions; we wanted solutions that were going to encourage modal shift and discourage car-based activities. It's now for them to come forward with proposals and we certainly would welcome proposals to have exclusion zones around schools where there's local support for that, and Jenny Rathbone is right: we do need to start thinking more radically about the type of interventions that we see around schools in particular. And it's my expectation, in the next round of maps—the individual network maps that local authorities produce next year for future active travel investment—that all schools in Wales be mapped on those plans, which will then result in infrastructure, linking them up to networks over the time of that planning period.
The food system, as Jenny Rathbone constantly reminds us, contributes to the obesity epidemic too. Easy access to cheap foods, high in salt, sugar, fats and additives, have encouraged a change in eating behaviour. So, to make a substantial impact will require a concerted and effective cross-Government approach, which is why we have set out in our 10-year strategy, 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales', published last October, themes around healthy environments and healthy settings. For example, we'll be consulting on legislation in the food environment over the summer, which will consider a range of future measures, such as price promotions, calorie labelling and drink purchasing. This is alongside investing in changing our physical environment in measures to encourage active travel and creating green spaces.
Obesity is significantly linked to health inequalities and we'll be looking at the role of behaviour change to encourage sustainable change. This is why we're developing targeted and tailored approaches, particularly with children and families. The risk of putting a disease label on obesity is that many people may feel that obesity will then be inevitable at a time when we want people to feel enabled to make healthy change—
Diolch yn fawr. Hoffwn ddiolch i Jenny Rathbone am ganolbwyntio ar y mater pwysig hwn, o'r gwaith y mae'n ei wneud yn y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar fwyd a'r grŵp trawsbleidiol ar deithio llesol yn ogystal â'r gwaith yn ei hetholaeth ei hun. Mae'n tynnu sylw'n gyson at achosion a chanlyniadau gordewdra ac mae'n llais pwysig yn ein Senedd ar y materion hyn.
Fel yr amlinellodd yn ei haraith, eisoes mae gennym oddeutu 600,000 o oedolion 16 oed neu hŷn yng Nghymru sy'n ordew, ac yn fwy pryderus, mae 60,000 o'r rheini'n ordew iawn. Mae'r nifer hwnnw'n cynyddu, ac amcangyfrifir bod 10,000 yn fwy o oedolion yn mynd yn ordew bob blwyddyn. Mae dros chwarter y plant rhwng pedair a phump oed yng Nghymru dros bwysau, gan gynnwys 12.4 y cant sy'n ordew. Mae'r ffigurau hyn yn frawychus. I roi ateb uniongyrchol i'r cwestiwn a ofynnodd Jenny Rathbone yn y ddadl hon, ynglŷn ag a yw gordewdra yn glefyd, dyna yw casgliad Coleg Brenhinol y Meddygon yn ogystal â Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd, sydd wedi categoreiddio gordewdra fel clefyd ers 2016. Felly, ar un ystyr, mae'r awdurdodau arweiniol wedi ateb y cwestiwn.
Nid ydym yn teimlo y byddai cydnabod bod gordewdra yma yng Nghymru yn glefyd ar hyn o bryd yn arwain at ymateb gwahanol o ran gwasanaeth i'r hyn rydym eisoes wedi ymrwymo i fwrw ymlaen ag ef. Mae ein rôl yn ymwneud ag atal ac ymyrryd yn gynnar, yn ogystal â mynd i'r afael â rhai o brif achosion gordewdra a amlinellwyd gan Jenny Rathbone, sef tlodi, yr amgylchedd a deiet. Ar gyfer oedolion a phlant, mae cyfraddau gordewdra yn cynyddu gydag amddifadedd, gyda nifer yr achosion 6 y cant yn uwch ymysg plant pedair i bump oed sy'n byw yn yr ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig, o gymharu â'r ardaloedd lleiaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru, gan godi i 13 y cant ar gyfer oedolion.
Mae strydoedd sy'n cael eu dominyddu gan geir yn cyfrannu at ein hargyfwng gordewdra. Mae strydoedd traffig trwm yn creu'r hyn sy'n cael ei alw'n 'amgylcheddau obesogenig'—lleoedd sy'n annog pobl i beidio â gwneud gweithgarwch corfforol ac sy'n cyfrannu at broblem diffyg ymarfer corff. Caiff un o bob pedwar oedolyn yng Nghymru eu categoreiddio'n ordew bellach, ond mae'r nifer yn gostwng yn sylweddol ymhlith y rhai sy'n gorfforol egnïol. Felly, mae cael pobl allan o'u ceir ar gyfer teithiau byr yn creu sawl mantais, o aer glanach a ffyrdd llai prysur, i iechyd meddwl gwell a siopau lleol prysurach.
Ac i geisio ateb y cwestiwn a ofynnodd Jenny Rathbone am barthau gwahardd ceir o amgylch ysgolion, rydym newydd ddiweddaru'r canllawiau ar gyfer y prosiect Llwybrau Diogel mewn Cymunedau er mwyn rhoi mwy o bwyslais ar ymyriadau sy'n annog newid ymddygiad. Ac rwyf wedi dweud fy mod wedi cyfarfod â'r holl swyddogion diogelwch ar y ffyrdd yng Nghymru ac wedi nodi fy nisgwyliadau clir iawn nad atebion ar sail peirianneg yn unig roeddem am eu gweld; roeddem am gael atebion a oedd yn mynd i annog newid moddol ac i gymell pobl rhag ymgymryd â gweithgareddau sy'n dibynnu ar geir. Eu lle hwy yn awr yw cyflwyno cynigion ac yn sicr byddem yn croesawu cynigion i gael parthau gwahardd ceir o amgylch ysgolion lle mae cefnogaeth leol i hynny, ac mae Jenny Rathbone yn iawn: mae angen inni ddechrau meddwl yn fwy radical am y math o ymyriadau a welwn o gwmpas ysgolion yn arbennig. Ac rwy'n disgwyl, yn y rownd nesaf o fapiau—y mapiau rhwydwaith unigol y mae awdurdodau lleol yn eu cynhyrchu y flwyddyn nesaf ar gyfer buddsoddi mewn teithio llesol yn y dyfodol—y bydd pob ysgol yng Nghymru yn cael ei mapio ar y cynlluniau hynny, a fydd yn arwain at seilwaith wedyn, gan eu cysylltu â rhwydweithiau dros y cyfnod cynllunio hwnnw.
Mae'r system fwyd, fel y mae Jenny Rathbone yn ein hatgoffa'n gyson, yn cyfrannu at yr epidemig o ordewdra hefyd. Mae mynediad at fwydydd rhad, sy'n cynnwys llawer o halen, siwgr, brasterau ac ychwanegion, wedi annog newid mewn ymddygiad bwyta. Felly, er mwyn cael effaith sylweddol, bydd angen dull trawslywodraethol effeithiol, a dyna pam rydym wedi nodi themâu yn ein strategaeth 10 mlynedd, 'Pwysau Iach: Cymru Iach', a gyhoeddwyd fis Hydref diwethaf, sy'n ymwneud ag amgylcheddau iach a lleoliadau iach. Er enghraifft, byddwn yn ymgynghori ar ddeddfwriaeth yn yr amgylchedd bwyd dros yr haf, ac yn ystyried ystod o fesurau yn y dyfodol, megis hyrwyddiadau prisiau, labelu calorïau a phrynu diodydd. Daw hyn ochr yn ochr â buddsoddi i newid ein hamgylchedd ffisegol mewn mesurau i annog teithio llesol a chreu mannau gwyrdd.
Mae cysylltiad mawr rhwng gordewdra ac anghydraddoldebau iechyd a byddwn yn edrych ar rôl newid ymddygiad i annog newid cynaliadwy. Dyma pam ein bod yn datblygu dulliau wedi'u targedu a'u teilwra, yn enwedig gyda phlant a theuluoedd. Y risg o roi label clefyd ar ordewdra yw y gall llawer o bobl deimlo y bydd gordewdra yn anochel wedyn ar adeg pan ydym am i bobl deimlo y cânt eu galluogi i wneud newid iach—
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
I shall.
Gwnaf.
I just wondered how then you see us tackling the stigma, which the all-party parliamentary group picked up, because there's no doubt that people are feeling reluctant to approach their health professionals and partly because health professionals are not being sympathetic to the issue.
Roeddwn yn meddwl tybed sut rydych yn ein gweld yn mynd i'r afael â'r stigma, a nodwyd gan y grŵp seneddol trawsbleidiol, oherwydd nid oes amheuaeth fod pobl yn teimlo'n gyndyn i fynd at eu gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol ac yn rhannol am nad yw gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol yn cydymdeimlo â'r broblem.
Absolutely. Many people have told the Welsh Government about the daily stigma they have faced, which can be a prohibitive factor for them to make positive change, or patients being fearful of discussing their weight with a healthcare professional, as Jenny Rathbone has said. We will ensure that there is increased compassionate care within the NHS and that services are supportive and enabling. We know that having a consistent NHS response through the obesity pathway will help to play a significant contributory factor in this. However, what we cannot do is detract from the societal issues that we face to ensure that this is not an issue that defines the health of our population into the future. At this moment in time, we do not believe that treating obesity as a disease would help to change the momentum or the delivery that we will be taking forward through our ambitious approach through 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales'. Diolch yn fawr.
Yn hollol. Mae llawer o bobl wedi dweud wrth Lywodraeth Cymru am y stigma dyddiol y maent wedi'i wynebu, sy'n gallu bod yn ffactor gwaharddol iddynt wneud newid cadarnhaol, neu gleifion yn ofni trafod eu pwysau gyda gweithiwr gofal iechyd proffesiynol, fel y dywedodd Jenny Rathbone. Byddwn yn sicrhau bod mwy o ofal tosturiol yn y GIG a bod gwasanaethau'n gefnogol ac yn rhai sy'n galluogi. Rydym yn gwybod y bydd cael ymateb cyson gan y GIG drwy'r llwybr gordewdra yn help i fod yn ffactor cyfrannol sylweddol yn hyn o beth. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn na allwn ei wneud yw lleihau'r problemau cymdeithasol rydym yn eu hwynebu er mwyn sicrhau nad yw hwn yn fater sy'n diffinio iechyd ein poblogaeth yn y dyfodol. Ar hyn o bryd, nid ydym yn credu y byddai trin gordewdra fel clefyd yn helpu i newid y momentwm na'r ddarpariaeth y byddwn yn bwrw ymlaen â hi drwy ein dull uchelgeisiol o weithredu drwy 'Pwysau Iach: Cymru Iach'. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch yn fawr. Daw hynny â thrafodion heddiw i ben.
Thank you. That brings today's proceedings to a close.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 18:51.
The meeting ended at 18:51.