National Assembly for Wales

We've already set up a working group across the Welsh Government to go through the review on the regulation of nuclear power—the Fingleton review—and decide what works for Wales, particularly in areas where we have devolved responsibilities. We'll work with the UK regulators to speed things up where we can, but what we won't do is to lower standards. And this matters because of Wylfa on Anglesey. This is a huge opportunity for Wales. It's being driven by a UK Labour Government—[Interruption.]—working in partnership with a Welsh Labour Government—I don't know why you find that so difficult to understand—thousands of skilled jobs, billions of pound of investment and a real boost to the local economy. We're already seeing that pipeline starting, with contracts being awarded and supply chains building here in Wales. So, this isn't theoretical; it's happening now, and our job is to make sure Wales is ready to take full advantage of it. 

Thank you for your reply, First Minister. Energy security and sovereignty has never been more important. We will need more power, not less, to secure well-paid work for communities across Wales in the industries of the future that are, of course, identified in the UK industrial strategy. We'll need both renewables and a generation of new nuclear to secure power for homes, businesses and jobs. And it is fantastic news for Wales that the small modular reactor programme for the UK will be led from Wylfa. The Rolls Royce SMR programme should provide real opportunities and work for the wider Welsh supply chain in both north and south Wales. If we want the work in Wales, we have to support the sector. The Fingleton review sets out a path to regulate the sector, based on the technology of today, rather than nuclear developments from the 1960s and 1970s. It makes a case for change that is essential to the success of this sector, and the high-value employment it creates and supports. I don't want to see extra barriers to nuclear investment in Wales that are not supported by the evidence. Can you set out this Government's ambitions for the nuclear sector here in Wales, and, referring to the taskforce that you announced half and hour ago, can you set out how this Government expects Wales to enable and respond to the Fingleton review, to ensure that Wales is indeed the best place in the UK for this sector to invest and succeed?

Diolch, Vaughan. We'll need three times more electricity in Wales than we use today by 2050. And if we've learnt nothing else in the past few weeks, we know that we can't rely on an unstable power source from abroad, and that's why the development of nuclear energy on Wylfa is so critical. So, I want to reaffirm my support for the acceleration of the delivery of nuclear infrastructure projects, and I have set that out in a written statement. 

It's important that both the planning system and the regulatory processes operate smoothly and swiftly to enable businesses to operate effectively. Now, we've prioritised £5 million of investment in Natural Resources Wales to make sure that they can speed up the consenting process. But, what we won't do is to dampen down anything when it comes to safety—the safety of the people who work there and the safety of the people of this nation.

First Minister, nuclear power has the capability of transforming our grid, providing reliable baseload energy and increasing the demand. But let's not underestimate the role of the previous UK Conservative in advocating for Wylfa—full-scale nuclear at Wylfa, rather than just SMRs. In your initial reply to Vaughan Gething, you mentioned the ability of this Welsh Government to look at what is within its powers around nuclear power—that being the skills provision for the local workforce. So, how are you working to ensure that the local workforce across Wales are able to maximise the opportunities that come from nuclear here in Wales?

I can't believe a Tory is talking to me about what you did for nuclear. The people of north Wales, of Anglesey, waited. They were promised jobs—[Interruption.] They were promised jobs. We trained them up, ready to take those jobs. Hundreds of apprentices were promised things on your watch, and you failed to deliver—you failed to deliver. Do you know what that meant? [Interruption.] Do you know what that meant? It meant that people, people in Anglesey, were trained up, they wanted to work in their local communities, they wanted to stay at home, to be able to speak in their native language, but no—no, you made them leave because you didn't follow through. But under Welsh Labour, under Welsh Labour, under the UK Labour Party, working together, we are going to deliver £2.5 billion of investment—new jobs. And do you know what? They're already happening. I was visiting one just yesterday—Halton in Ebbw Vale, which is already making equipment for the nuclear sector. They are eyeing up those opportunities there are—they are eyeing them up in Wylfa. And so is Boccard, where we visited last week, in north Wales. It was wonderful to be there for the launch of the north Wales Labour Party campaign. And Boccard was there, understanding what stability means—the need to look to the future, to make sure that we can present opportunities for the people in those areas. And in Ledwood, in west Wales, they are already working for the nuclear power sector. You failed these people; we will deliver for them.

First Minister, Wales needs energy that is affordable for households, reliable for industry, and secure for the long term. For too long, Welsh energy policy has been driven by ideological net-zero targets, without regard for cost, reliability, rural impact, or democratic consent. Yet, despite huge subsidies for onshore wind, Welsh households still face some of the highest bills in Europe, whilst the grid grows more unstable. Reform will change that. Our approach will be straightforward: energy policy in Wales will serve people, it will serve jobs, it will serve national resilience. A Reform Government will act as an active enabler of nuclear development, not a passive bystander or blocker. We will work constructively with Westminster and fast-track the infrastructure needed. Does the First Minister agree with me that we should not allow ideological opposition by Plaid to frustrate or halt nationally important nuclear developments and that we should end these ridiculous net-zero targets that are bringing our Welsh economy to our knees?

I'll tell you what we are opposed to, it's ideological positions that fail to recognise that climate change is real. Climate change is happening. Have you not looked at the scientific evidence just this week—just this week? Human-made climate change is real and you're continuing to deny its existence. And let me tell you that I am interested—[Interruption.]—I am interested, and I am concerned about the people in this nation who are suffering at the moment because of increased energy prices. We need to do something to stabilise, to look to the future, to make sure that there is security of supply. What's the best way of doing that? Renewable energy, and, here in Wales, we have plenty of it. We are the only party—the only party—in this place that is dead serious about developing renewable energy, recognising that we need the infrastructure to go with that in order to create jobs, to make sure that we have a reliable source for the future, which will bring prices down for the people who today are suffering because of the vagaries of the market and because of what's going on in the middle east. We are paying a price. We need to be organised. That's what we are doing in the Labour Party—we are organising a Government for the future, and an independent energy policy for Wales. That is our promise to the people at the next election.

Our universities are central to Wales's economy. They train our workforce, they drive innovation and support local jobs right across the country. You see that in places like Swansea, where the university is working with industry, on everything from advanced manufacturing to green energy. Now, I know this is a difficult time for the sector and I recognise the real anxiety for staff, including in Swansea, where people are worried about their jobs. That's why the Welsh Labour Government has backed our universities with additional investment of over £40 million in capital funding to help them adapt and plan for the future.

Thank you, First Minister. I want to stress the importance of higher education in growth areas such as computing and life sciences, while also generally providing a highly educated workforce, which is what employers need. If you examine the economically successful areas in the world, they all have major universities. Be it Swansea's twin city in Mannheim, Silicon Valley or Cambridge, the universities drive the economy and the high economic growth in the area. Universities provide the opportunity for high salaries and economic growth. What support is the Welsh Government giving to the Welsh universities so they can compete with the best in the world?

If you look at the most successful economies in the world, they are built around strong universities, and that's exactly the model that we're backing here, because universities don't just educate, they drive innovation, they support high-value jobs, and they anchor growth in places like Swansea and elsewhere. That's why the Welsh Labour Government is investing directly in the sector. Through Medr, we provided over £150 million to universities last year, alongside tens of millions in capital funding, to help them modernise and to reduce costs going forward.

We know that universities are very important, and growing the economy is also very important. If we want a workforce that can reflect and communicate with other economies in the world, modern foreign languages are absolutely at the heart of that, in my view. I'm sure you'll be as concerned as I am to see that the number of students studying modern foreign languages over the last five years has decreased by about 20 per cent, which is concerning not just for those courses, but for the impact that that would have on our economy instead. Clearly, that is something we need to reverse, and, no, not in the way Reform suggests, by making Welsh a foreign language. Instead, we need to properly reverse that trend, First Minister, if we're going to have a skilled workforce both today and in the future. So, how does the Welsh Government ensure that foreign languages are at the very heart of this and the next Welsh Government strategy, not only in universities, but longer term down the pipeline as well for GCSE and A-level courses?

[Inaudible.]—modern foreign languages at universities. I think this is an important thing for us to promote, and that's why we're doing it very much in our schools. You can't do it in university unless you've done the groundwork in our schools before, not just in secondary but primary schools, getting that interest in young people right from the beginning. But, let me say something else about universities, in particular when it comes to incentivising people to learn modern languages: there was more of an incentive when there was an opportunity to be able to go and work in the European Union. That is the truth of it, and your party helped to lead the campaign that took us out of the EU. Let's be absolutely clear that, when it came to university funding, we had a huge amount of support from the EU, not just for research but also for infrastructure, and that helped us to be able to compete with places like the south-east of England. That is far more difficult now. Your party promised not a penny less. That promise was hollow, and the people of Wales have heard it.

Mike Hedges is absolutely right, the universities in Wales are not only important seats of learning but they're also drivers of economic growth in their regions. But your mismanagement of the higher education sector over 27 years has left the sector in serious financial difficulties. As we've seen recently, they've had to cut jobs and cut courses. Your record in supporting them has been absolutely woeful. Only 32 per cent of young people in Wales go to universities, compared to 40 per cent in the rest of the UK. Only 21 per cent from deprived communities go to universities, compared to 27 per cent across the UK. So, your response has been closing your eyes and pretending that there's nothing wrong. What Plaid Cymru are actually proposing is to set up an independent review of the university sector, which is what the sector wants. So, can I invite the First Minister to support Plaid Cymru in setting up that review?

Look, there's always more we can do. There's always more we can do to support higher education. I know how important they are as institutions that anchor economies, particularly in those areas like Bangor and Aberystwyth, where they are fundamental to those places, which is why it was shocking to hear Nigel Farage talk about closing universities because he didn't like what they were discussing there in Bangor.

Look, let's talk about Plaid's plans for higher education, because, yes, you'll have a review, but the policies you've actually put out already, a new report from the Higher Education Policy Institute has concluded that they would

'be difficult to implement in practice, in the absence of cuts elsewhere in Welsh Government’s spending.'

So, these are promises again—promises again—without any practicalities; no sense of where that funding is going to come from. And let's be clear also about the other thing that Plaid is suggesting. They are suggesting proposing a system where young people from wealthier backgrounds would have a free choice in terms of where they go to university, while those from lower incomes would have their choices limited. That is the truth—that is the truth—of the Plaid policy, and we will make sure that the people of Wales hear that in the forthcoming election.

Universities add significant value to Wales, benefiting local communities as well as boosting the national economy. In my constituency, Wrexham University is incredibly proud of their highly skilled graduates and the institution is moving from strength to strength. Last year, it launched CanfodAu, a multi-million pound research and innovation centre and, just this month, the university was awarded research degree awarding powers. It's also developing a business gateway and working very closely with Wrexham AFC regarding new opportunities in the region. Collaboration is crucial, and many of these projects have been delivered through very strong partnership. Of course, the Welsh Government has always been a key component there. So, First Minister, I'm sure you'll agree with me that it's essential the Welsh Government continues to provide the necessary support and investment so institutions like Wrexham University can continue to drive economic growth, strengthening both the regional and national economy.

I agree with you, and I think Wrexham University is having a really instrumental role in transforming Wrexham as a city. It was great to speak to and be with the vice-chancellor of Wrexham last Friday, but also it was an opportunity to thank him, because he hosted the Cabinet in his university just a few weeks ago. It is important to make sure that we all have an understanding of how Wrexham is driving growth in that part of the world. I do think that that business gateway is going to make a huge difference.

The really interesting model for me, in terms of Wrexham, is this understanding that it's not just about coming straight out of school and going to university. This is about lifelong learning, and what Labour is promising in this election is that there will be a lifelong retraining guarantee. And that was something that I was able to discuss with the vice-chancellor last week, because that is something where they need to understand that things will be different in future. We need to adjust and adapt, and recognise that people may not need to do, or be willing to do, or able to do three-year courses. They may need to do things differently—bite-sized courses that fit around people's lives. That is the kind of model that I'd be very keen to see in that lifelong retraining guarantee that we will deliver when we are returned to the Senedd as the leading party.

Well, I'm glad we agree on something. [Laughter.] It's been difficult to find areas of common ground over the past number of years. So, if I can now move back to our usual jousting, to something that we might disagree on, First Minister, last week your Government issued a statement on the cost of living. It made for remarkable reading, because it told us next to nothing. It mentioned £3.8 million-worth of UK Government funding to support people in Wales who use oil for heating and hot water, but it gave absolutely no indication as to how that money will be deployed. And it also ignored the many other cost-of-living pressures that have been heaped upon the shoulders of the people of Wales—council tax through the roof over the past five years, water bills up by hundreds in recent years too, and of course the very recent spike in the cost of petrol and diesel on forecourts across Wales. What on earth are you doing issuing a statement on the cost-of-living pressures that buries your head in the sand when it doesn't discuss those particular pressures clobbering every single household in Wales? And can you tell us: have you petitioned the UK Government to ditch the planned fuel duty increase later this year? Why are you standing idly by, not using your powers to cap council tax increases when councils are hiking their council tax by eye-watering amounts? And when and how are people going to be able to access that extra money for their heating oil costs? 

Well, I can't believe I'm getting lessons from the Tories on how to support people when it comes to poverty. You threw people on the scrap heap when your Government was leading in Westminster. Let's remember the years of austerity, the years of cuts, the years of not protecting people who needed protection. And let me tell you what we did in Wales. While you were cutting in England, we were protecting here in Wales. We made sure that people over 60 could use their buses free of charge; we made sure that we introduced new bus regulation to make sure that we can take more control and we can charge people a decent amount but not too much. And that's why £1 fares for young people has proved massively successful and why, when we are back in government here after May, let me tell you, we will be introducing a £2 cap when it comes to bus fares, making a difference—a real difference—to the cost-of-living challenges that people are suffering.

And let me be clear: we understand they are under pressure. People in Wales are under pressure and that is why we want to stand by them. That is why we are going to go even further when it comes to support for energy insulation, for supporting them in their homes, and why also we are supporting the people who are really struggling on the lowest wages. That's why, when we come back here in May, we will make sure that those people who are working in our classrooms, who are support staff, get paid throughout the year. That will make a real difference to over 30,000 people in our communities. That's the kind of difference that a Welsh Labour Government will make and has made.

It must be very, very miserable all the time to be you, Darren, always talking down Wales—talking down Wales. Let me tell you what we are doing in terms of delivery. Waiting lists down last week—eight months in a row. And I want to pay tribute to Jeremy Miles, who has taken that additional money—. He's taken that additional money that we didn't have under your Government, that we now have, and it's delivering. Massive improvements in rail services across Wales; 100,000 apprenticeships; free school meals in every primary school; and new schools built across the whole of Wales. And that's before we start talking about the 20,000 people who are now in social homes built by the Welsh Labour Government.

I'll tell you what the Conservative Party did to help people with the cost of living: we had a furlough scheme that got millions of jobs and livelihoods saved during the pandemic. We gave people a bigger increase than 75p on their pensions, with the triple lock. And of course, we never took away—or snatched away—in advance of the winter, the winter fuel allowance for our pensioners.

Now, First Minister, let's get back—let's get back—to the cost of living. Every single Welsh Conservative knows that the best way to help people with the cost of living is to put more money into people's pockets and to reward hard work. That's why we have proposed a tax- and waste-cutting agenda for Wales: a plan to cut 1p off income tax to save the hard-working family £450 per year; council tax increases to put an end to the scam of paying more every single year, but getting less in return; an extension to free childcare—30 hours a week for working mums and dads—and, of course, our plans to scrap stamp duty on main homes to get our housing market moving and support the jobs that depend on it. So, will you agree with me that the only way to address the cost of living and to deal with poverty in Wales, the only way to fix Wales and get Wales working is for the people of Wales to ditch Labour, ditch Plaid and vote Welsh Conservatives on 7 May?

I think the people of Wales—[Interruption.] I think the people of Wales have had enough of the Conservatives. That's why they rejected them massively during the last general election. How many MPs did you say you had? Oh, no, let's forget that.

But let's remember also about the fact that, actually, you are indistinguishable these days from Reform. That is the truth of it. Those two, which party were you in before? I think you might find it was the Tory party. What does your manifesto look like? Oh, it looks exactly like theirs. And do you know what they have in common? Do you know what they have in common? Cuts to public services. That's what you have in common. You have cuts to public services.

Let's just think about what you're promising. You're promising deep cuts to public services to scrap business rates—£300 million that'll cost, £300 million. Where's that coming from? Who's paying for that? It'll be the health service, it'll be the education service. You want to give farmers an extra £100 million on top of the £350 million they're already receiving. Where is that money coming from? It's cuts to public services. And on top of that—[Interruption.] And on top of that, you want to rebuild and start building the M4—£1.6 billion right there, £1.6 billion. Your accountant needs to have their head examined. That is the truth of it. You have been drinking from the Liz Truss Kool-Aid, and you need to make sure that, when you make an offer to the Welsh public—when you make an offer to the Welsh public—you deliver.

I don't think I'm proving to be that strong and effective a Llywydd today. I've adopted a kind of laissez-faire, let-it-all-go, last-week-of-term approach to this, to see if it strikes a different chord. It seems to be working so far. [Laughter.]

It is the people of Wales who will decide if this is the last session in which a Labour First Minister answers questions from opposition leaders. If that does indeed prove to be the case, what does the First Minister think will have driven that loss of faith in her party's ability to deliver for Wales and to stand up for our country?

I think the people of Wales will take their time to consider what we've delivered for them over the past five years—and boy have we delivered. And we have delivered in the face—in the face—of a pandemic. Do you remember, coming into this election, we weren't even allowed to campaign properly for the first three weeks? We were in the shadow of a pandemic, Brexit was just about to happen, and we also had inflation, massive inflation, as a result of the Ukraine war. And we've had four Prime Ministers during that time. That's not conducive and not easy for us to really drive the kinds of changes that we wanted to see, but do you know what? We had a programme for government and we have delivered on the vast majority of that programme, despite—despite—all those hurdles in our way.

And what we need to do now is to recognise, and we need the public to recognise, that what Wales faces is a choice: a choice between a Government that now has the finance, the money to make that transformation in our public services, as is already happening, witnessed by that eight months in a row of waiting lists coming down. Look at the potholes being filled on our streets: 200,000 and more. Think about those women's health hubs that have been opened across the whole of Wales. Think about those 20,000 homes that we've delivered. Think about the 100,000 apprenticeships that have been created in Wales. All of those things have been delivered on our watch.

And let me tell you about the options and what's ahead of them, and the choices that are ahead of them. Do you know what? Part of the problem we have from Plaid is that, actually, if we just examine two of their proposals, there are massive, massive consequences for every other part of Government. Let's just look at childcare: £400 million. That's how much it would cost to deliver Plaid Cymru's childcare proposal. We would all love to see better childcare in Wales. We all have to make tough choices. You also want to spend an extra £1 on care workers—£164 million right there.

So, let's just take those two. That will mean massive, massive cuts in public services elsewhere, because there is no more money. You have to make choices in Government. You wouldn't know because you've never had to do this before, but that is the reality of governing. And do you know what? We've been scrutinised in this place week after week, and that is a good thing; it makes democracy better, it makes us accountable, but do you know what? You've started to be scrutinised, and you are crumbling and falling at the first hurdle, because your sums don't add up. The people of Wales are clocking it, and they will, I hope, come to us and understand that we, when we say we're going to deliver, we actually do.

The First Minister knows as well as I do that the people of Wales are viewing this election through a new lens. The sense of inevitability, of a repeat of what has gone before, is gone. We in Plaid Cymru have taken seriously our role of holding Government to account, but it's also been about influencing Government, getting things done from opposition—free school meals. We lost count of the times Labour voted against that, but Plaid Cymru never gave up. The north Wales medical school, an idea once dismissed outright by Labour, is now a reality after the long Plaid Cymru campaign. I'm proud of the stance that we as a party took on the Gaza genocides, ensuring that Wales's voice was heard loud and clear. When Wales has been bypassed or shortchanged by UK Government, it was Plaid Cymru calling it out, with Labour backbenchers only joining in when it was politically expedient to do so.

That is just a flavour of how a Plaid Cymru Government would show new leadership. Why is it that so often on policies that matter to people, as well as the polls where Plaid Cymru leads, Labour can only follow? 

You talk about ideas. Where are they? Where are they? I was expecting something big. I was expecting something special. You have had five years to develop these ideas, but do you know what you're going to do? In the first 100 days, you're going to have a little think. You're going to have a little think about what might come next. But, frankly, it doesn't matter what you come up with, because you won't be able to implement any of it, because there will be no more money, because you've already spent it. You've already spent it on two policies.

So, let us be clear that the people of Wales are scrutinising you for the first time. Let’s just think about the Welsh Development Agency, the new Welsh Development Agency. There's no plan, there's no remit, there are no costings, there's no timetable, but we'll have a little think. We'll have a little think in the first 100 days. The business community is not going to buy that. Jobs matter. Business matters. And do you know what? More than anything, Wales and its people matter.

Lots of people are watching this session today and the tone of the First Minister does her as much disservice as her lack of action for the people of Wales. It would be easy for me to just stand here and criticise the record of this Labour Government. Too easy. We have rehearsed the state of the NHS, schools and the economy so many times, and the excuses are like a broken record.

The First Minister often talks of experience in Government, but longevity isn't the same as delivery. Recent comments by anonymous Labour sources have betrayed the fact that, for them, it's party before country. Saying you don't want something devolved because you're not sure if you're going to be in power to deliver on it, that is profoundly undemocratic. So is claiming that a future First Minister of Wales can't have an effective relationship with a UK Prime Minister if they don't belong to the same Labour party. This arrogance is why people are so fed up of Labour and why Welsh voters are crying out for new leadership and new ideas. Labour's deference to Wales has held Wales back for too long.

Doesn't the First Minister agree that it's high time our nation had a Government that says 'no' to subservience, 'no' to squandered opportunities, and 'yes' to a confident, compassionate and thriving Wales? And if she does indeed believe that, she must concede that Labour can't be the party to lead that Government after 7 May.

Do you know what? You're counting your votes already, aren't you? And the people of Wales are clocking that—the arrogance. The arrogance, the taking for granted of what might happen next.

We have fought in every election for every vote. We have said what we're going to deliver, we've delivered what we said we would, and then we've gone back to the public. And that is the same pattern that we will be doing here. And do you know what? When it comes to country and party, I have been clear. I have been clear before and I will be clear again: country over party every single time for me. And when it comes to choice, however, when it comes to choice, I will always side with the people of Wales. I will always make sure that I stand up for the people who need protection.

What will you do? We don't have to ask what you will do because we saw what you did just a couple of weeks ago. When the people of Wales, when this Chamber was asked, 'Are you going to protect shop workers from violence?', what did you do? You voted with the Tories and Reform. You put constitutional issues above protecting the people of Wales. People are clocking that, and we know and they know that that is just a first stop on the road to separatism. What you want is a constitutional fight. What we need is a Government that is serious. Serious times deserve and need serious politicians. They need politicians with credibility and with experience.

Do you know what? Running Government is hard. There’s a lot to do and we know there’s always more to do. But what we will do when we enter this election is offer clear, affordable, costed and deliverable policies. We will be making sure that the Welsh public know who to come to when they need support to tackle the cost-of-living crisis: cheaper bus fares, lower energy bills, expansion of childcare. When they worry about the jobs of the future, who will be there to look after them, to look out for them, to make sure that we create the right environment? It will be Welsh Labour, the Welsh Labour Government, making sure that we are ready, creating an energy-independent Wales and new lifelong retraining guarantees.

What are we going to do about the NHS? Well, now the taps have been turned on, it is already making a difference. But do you know what we'll be doing? We will be investing £4 billion into the hospitals of the future, with same-day mental health support and a continued focus on women's health. And when it comes to protecting our planet—we've heard this week how important it is to protect our planet—we will clean up our rivers and seas, we will grow our national forest and we will crack down on fly-tipping.

But more than anything—more than anything—what we will do is create a fairer future for Wales, ending homelessness, a pay rise for the lowest paid workers and raising school standards. There is a new chapter about to start in the history of Wales with a new generation coming through. This is fairness that you can feel. When we say we're going to deliver, we deliver. 

Devolution is working, and it’s working because of the choices made by the Welsh Labour Government. And let’s be clear: we are the party of devolution. We established it and we’ve made it deliver for the people of Wales: free school meals for every primary pupil, free prescriptions, falling NHS waiting lists, investment in jobs, skills and communities across Wales. That’s what happens when decisions are made in Wales, by a Welsh Labour Government, for the people of Wales.

But, yes, of course, we want to go further. That’s why we backed the constitutional commission, because Wales should have a stronger voice and more control over the future. But do you know what? Devolution isn’t the problem. The pressure has come from years of underfunding from a previous UK Tory Government holding Wales back. Now, with two Labour Governments working together, that new investment is coming through and we are putting it to work where it matters.

First Minister, today seems a time to take stock and see where we are headed. This Senedd is Wales's voice. It was hard fought for, hard won. There are voices in our politics that seek to denigrate and belittle us. How damaging and dismaying it is that the current Prime Minister seems one of them. Keir Starmer, like Boris Johnson before him, seems happy to sideline this Senedd, to rebuff calls for powers over policing, over transport, to deny us the billions we're owed from HS2, to tell his Westminster Cabinet they can spend in devolved areas without the Welsh Government's consent. When Westminster politicians so devalue our voices, it is not an institution they are insulting, it is a nation; a nation of people who deserve so much better than the current settlement they are getting; the nation of Wales, which merits more than being left on a perpetual periphery. So, First Minister, what is your vision and your hope for the future of this place and why do you think it's taking us so long to get there?

My vision for Wales is one where we see our economy growing, so that people can live a good life, which is also something where everybody can be valued, that they can make the most of their opportunities, and we need to make sure that we also look after and protect our country. And let me tell you that that's precisely what we've been doing. We've been making sure that we now work with the UK Labour Government, and that's how we have had the biggest investment we've seen in decades, the biggest budget we've ever had, and we are putting it to work.

And let's be clear also that there has been a commitment, after years of underinvestment, when it comes to rail. Yes, we were annoyed about it. We were annoyed about it under the Tories, and, do you know what? We continue to be annoyed about it when Labour is in power. That was true also for the two-child benefit cap. Do you know what? We don't change our views because of who's in power in Westminster. We were clear that the two-child benefit cap was not something that we agreed with, and we weren't going to change our tune because Westminster was doing something different. How great it was then when not only did they change their minds, but they came to Wales to make that announcement. That was an example of them listening, understanding and recognising that we are a party with values, and we will stick to those values irrespective of what happens in Westminster.

Yesterday, the COBRA committee met to discuss the cost of living and what measures the UK Government could take. In the pandemic and the outcome of the inquiry, there were fingers pointed at the participation of the Welsh Government within the COBRA committee. What improvements have you seen, as the new First Minister, or newish First Minister, to the COBRA system? I appreciate that it's the Prime Minister's gift to invite people into that, but key decisions are taken during moments of crisis. That, surely, is more important than some sort of separatist agenda that the nationalists want to push about breaking up the United Kingdom.

Thanks very much. You're quite right, and that's why it's great that, because I have a very clear relationship with the Prime Minister, I was able to pick up the phone to him last week and tell him about the issues that people in Wales are already contending with, like the heating oil prices that have already gone up. That's why we had a situation where we got more than the Barnett share, because we were able to have that conversation directly with the Prime Minister. Those kinds of relationships matter, they make a difference and they benefit the people of Wales. I've been getting briefings on the situation. It is something that I've drawn their attention to—that it is important that we learn the lessons of the pandemic and that we are involved right from the beginning when it comes to any situation that could impact on us here in Wales.

First Minister, I suspect that most people in Wales agree with you and your approach to devolution and to the future of the United Kingdom. I don’t think most people in Wales are interested in either Plaid Cymru's or the Tories' alternatives, and they certainly don’t want to be called 'foreigners' by Reform, let me tell you that. What people in Wales want to see is the fairness that you can feel, as you've already expressed this afternoon, and equality for Wales within the United Kingdom. The people of Wales want this country to be treated equally, they want this country to be treated fairly, and they want this country to receive the resources and the powers that we require in order to deliver for the people of Wales. Do you agree with me, First Minister, that it's only a new Welsh Labour Government that's going to deliver that sort of fairness for Wales?

Absolutely. Fairness is critical. It's central to who we are, and that is certainly the message that we'll be taking to the people of Wales. We are the party of devolution. We do not want to go on a route to separatism and we do not want to see a situation where devolution is watered down in any way. Let me be clear: when it comes to equality, we have had a lot more resources since the UK Labour Government came to power. Just look at the investment in Wylfa. Look at the fact that they have helped to support us when it comes to our coal tips. Look at the fact that we're having not one but two AI growth zones. And there are a whole load of other measures. Just last week, we were in Port Talbot talking to them about the new steel strategy—protectionism in place for the people in our nation. That's because we have a Government that understands that we need support here in Wales, and they are giving us that support.

We're working closely with the UK Labour Government on the Ajax programme, because this is about protecting highly skilled jobs in the south Wales Valleys. Hundreds of people are employed at General Dynamics in Oakdale and Merthyr—good, well-paid jobs that people rely on. I understand that uncertainty is going to cause anxiety. We have been clear that we need a swift resolution to give workers confidence, particularly in communities like Islwyn. But we're also backing the future with a £50 million Wales defence growth deal and a new defence cluster to grow jobs and supply chains here in Wales, because the Welsh Labour Government doesn't just talk about jobs, we deliver them.

Thank you very much, First Minister. General Dynamics UK, as you have said, is a major site in Oakdale in Islwyn. It houses a research and development engineering centre that focuses on advanced communication systems and software. The Oakdale site alone, during peak activity, employs over 300 highly skilled, well-paid workers, with the Ajax armoured fighting vehicle programme declared ready for operations last autumn, only for the further reviews to have taken place. But it was reported just last week that Ajax is understood to have passed all safety tests in recent weeks. The £6.3 billion programme has seen the British army order 589 Ajax armoured turreted reconnaissance vehicles.

Llywydd, it is clear that the capabilities of the Ajax, including an array of sophisticated sensors that enable it to detect the direction of incoming fire, are, in good part, due to the talented men and women who are employed at the Oakdale site. First Minister, what is the assessment of this Welsh Labour Government of the importance of the Ajax programme to the economy of south-east Wales, and what further representations will the Welsh Government make to ensure that Islwyn continues to be at the heart of the British army's strategic capabilities in the decades to come?

Thanks, Rhianon. You're absolutely right to highlight the importance of Ajax to the economy of south-east Wales. This is about hundreds of highly skilled, well-paid jobs in communities like Islwyn—jobs that families rely on, and jobs that anchor those wider supply chains across the Valleys, so it's not just about General Dynamics. It's been extraordinary to go and visit the factory. The skills of the people there are absolutely extraordinary. These are handmade tanks—that's what we're talking about.

It's been clear that the conversations with the UK Labour Government are progressing. I know the Cabinet Secretary for the economy has been in direct contact with the Minister for defence procurement to press exactly the case that you're making, making sure that they understand the scale of what's at stake here. But we're not just waiting for decisions; as I say, we're backing the future of the sector as well.

First Minister, General Dynamics, as just mentioned, the company behind the Ajax, provide countless jobs across the region of south-east Wales, and they're not the only ones providing high-quality jobs across Wales. We have BAE Systems in Monmouthshire, Raytheon in north Wales, GE Aerospace in Caerphilly, and so much more. It's not very often that I find myself agreeing with Sir Keir Starmer, but credit where credit's due, I am pleased to see him commit to slashing foreign aid to boost our defence spending to 2.5 per cent of national income by 2027. At times of heightened tension across the globe, it is only right that we spend more on defence. First Minister, do you support the Prime Minister on this? Because we know how much your Government loves splashing the cash in far-flung countries and on pointless vanity projects at the expense of people's priorities. What more can the Welsh Government do to support defence companies across Wales?

I'm uncomfortable—that's the truth of it. I'm uncomfortable with cutting aid to the poorest people on our planet. I can't walk away from that, that's who I am. But I understand also that people need to make tough choices. On the security situation in the world, we're in a very different position from where we've been in the past. I think we've got to take our security very seriously, and that's why they're boosting the money spent on defence. Let's be clear, your party cut and cut and cut that money that went into defence and has left us pretty vulnerable today, if we're honest. But if we are going to spend money on defence, I want to make sure that we land our fair share here in Wales. That's why that memorandum of understanding on the Wales defence growth deal is so significant: £50 million that will boost jobs in Wales. we need to make sure that that is just the start.

I understand how strongly people feel about services at Withybush, and they’re right to. These services matter. But let me be absolutely clear that urgent and emergency care will continue at Withybush Hospital. We've heard this before. For years, the Tories have been saying that Withybush is closing. It isn't. It wasn't then, and it isn't now.

What's happening here is a decision by the health board, based on clinical advice, about how to keep services safe and sustainable, because nobody benefits from a service that isn't properly staffed or safe. Workforce pressures have been building across the NHS for years, despite the fact that we now have 12 per cent more people working in the NHS than we did at the beginning of this Senedd term. That's not something that's unique to west Wales, that NHS workforce challenge; it's an international challenge.

But here's another truth: after 14 years of austerity imposed by your party at Westminster, we simply weren't given the funding to make the level of investment that the NHS needed. Now, that's changing. With a UK Labour Government, the investment that was denied to Wales is finally flowing, and we're putting it into the NHS. So, let me be clear: our plans are credible and they're deliverable. That includes a £4 billion 'hospitals for the future' fund, and a new urgent care hospital for west Wales. Scaremongering doesn't help patients; delivery and long-term sustainability does.

Mabon ap Gwynfor.

It's not for me to stop a question on Withybush Hospital, for obvious reasons.

Let me be absolutely clear, First Minister. You can spin this as much as you want, but residents across west Wales are understandably upset and angry at these decisions to strip services from their local hospitals. They want the Welsh Government to stand up for them and stop the health board from removing those vital services. My colleague Samuel Kurtz and I have written to the health Secretary to intervene, and indeed to the Counsel General to consider any and all legal options to stop the health board. We will leave no stone unturned in standing up for the people that we represent. First Minister, I've asked you time and time and time again to work with me and stand up for the people of west Wales against the local health board, and so far, you've absolutely refused. So, I ask you again: will you now intervene and stop the health board removing services from west Wales? Yes or no?

I recognise that communities are very upset about the situation. I understand that people are committed to their local services. These services are deeply valued. But they've got to remain safe, they've got to be sustainable, they've got to be deliverable. I think it is important that we also recognise that this has got to be a decision that is clinically led and really thinks about the objectives that it's trying to achieve, to get people better. Of course, people are concerned when they see services are changed.

You talk about spin; what about the spin that you put up on a post to say that emergency departments in Withybush were actually going to close? I've got a copy of the page. Let me also be clear that, of course, when people are told about changes in services, I think it's important also to recognise that there will be improvements in the reformed changes and suggestions: more provision for orthopaedics in Withybush, more cancer care in Withybush, diagnostics expanded to seven days a week in Withybush, expansion of same-day emergency care in Withybush. You fail to mention this every time you talk, Paul. People need to hear this. And let me ask you a question, because you asked me one: do you agree that we should have a brand-new hospital in west Wales? Yes or no?

The situation in Bronglais, I know, has caused a lot of concern, especially when it comes to stroke services. I know there's concern in the local community. I've speaking to the chair in my capacity as a local Member, but I do think, as the proposals as they were originally envisaged will now be different from what went out to consultation, that they will have to go out to consultation again. 

Diolch yn fawr, Brif Weinidog. This injustice is nearly as long as Welsh devolution itself. At the first Senedd, my father campaigned for the 1,000 steelworkers who lost their pension. A quarter of a century later, at the end of the seventh Senedd, nothing has changed. The campaign continues.

Well, that is not quite right, because one thing has changed. Many of the workers have now died, without receiving a penny of the pensions they paid for. One son told me that he believed his father died an untimely death because of the hardship caused by losing his pension. They have fought and they have fought and they have fought, and they are still fighting in their late 70s and 80s, and they've been let down by successive Westminster Governments of all colours.

Last December, you told me that Mark Draekford had written to Torsten Bell, the UK pensions Minister, about the ASW scandal. Have you received a reply, and will you pick up that phone to Keir Starmer, to tell him directly that every Senedd in this place has been in favour of the ASW workers, and unanimously in favour? And will you demand that this scandal comes to an end? Diolch yn fawr. 

Look, I know people who worked in Allied Steel and Wire have met a very unjust situation. They paid into a pension scheme, with expectations, and they were let down. They were short-changed through no fault of their own. And that is something that I know that you've been campaigning on, and that many, many representatives in Cardiff have been campaigning for. 

I know Mark Drakeford again wrote to the UK Government pensions Minister on 5 December to raise those concerns. He has received a response from the Department for Work and Pensions. The UK Labour Government, he suggests, has gone much further than the UK Tory Government to right the wrong. The financial assistance scheme, which was set up to help those affected by pensions failures between 1997 and 2005, covered 90 per cent of pension values. Now, the UK Labour Government will now legislate, through the UK Pension Schemes Bill, to provide indexation on pre-1997 pension accruals, where the original scheme's rules included such provisions, and they will be index linked. So, that now will cover Allied Steel and Wire's workers. But it doesn't account for inflation, particularly for pension rights accrued prior to the scheme being launched. So, there are still concerns. He recognises that they haven't covered everything that people were concerned with, but I know they will continue to fight, and we will continue to fight on their behalf. 

Wales is a country built on immigration. Hundreds of thousands of people moved here to help us build through the industrial revolution. Today we rely on people from other countries and cultures to support our NHS and care services and to support our night-time economy. Community cohesion is central to our values in the Labour Government and we do a huge amount to promote it.

I'd like to thank, on this occasion, Jane Hutt for the incredible work she's done in this area, not just over the past few years in her role as social justice Secretary, but also in her many, many, many years serving in this Chamber, always fighting for social cohesion, always fighting for social justice. I'd like to thank Jane for her huge contribution, not just in this place, but to the people of Wales. [Applause.]

In light of the war in Iran, the issue of community cohesion is coming to the fore again. We know from previous wars in the region that increased tension can arise in our communities, particularly for members of the Muslim community and the Jewish community. An example of this was last week, when we saw the shocking events happening in London that affected the Jewish community there. Closer to home, I know that concerns have been raised in recent months about the robustness of security at a number of places of worship. Have you made any extra support available to safeguard the more vulnerable members of our communities, to ensure that they are protected from hate speech, racism and physical violence?

Secondly, as this is my last question to you in this Senedd before dissolution, would you agree with me that political parties, candidates and their supporters need to be mindful at all times of the kinds of language that we use? Statements and positions should be rooted in fact and they should avoid stoking up tensions for our communities. Cymru is a friendly, tolerant and inclusive nation; it must remain like that.

I think that's absolutely right. I think we have to go into this campaign in the knowledge that, actually, we are entering quite a difficult period. This is a time where there are, as you say, heightened tensions. I have asked the officials concerned to make sure that we have put that additional support in place to protect those communities that feel vulnerable at the moment. I'm sure lots of us were involved in the Eid celebrations on the weekend; it's great to see our Muslim communities celebrate. But it's also important that we protect the Jewish community, who do feel under strain at this time.

Look, soon, the people of Wales will be going to the polls, and they are going to be facing a choice in terms of what kind of Wales they want to belong to in future: one that tries to build communities and create cohesion, or do they opt for a party that is determined to create divisions, to foster hate and to raise the temperature? I think there's enough division in this world, enough bad actors always looking for differences rather than asking for what's in common. I think it's incumbent on every one of us, as we enter those elections, to behave with honour, with dignity, but, most of all, with respect for each other.

Every death in an accident and emergency department is a tragedy, but ones that could have been avoided if prompt action had been taken are wholly unacceptable. We've heard of many examples where this has occurred, and health boards absolutely need to act. Every patient should be triaged within 15 minutes of arrival, which should assess the seriousness of the patient's condition, and they should be treated in accordance with need. Now, the pressure on our emergency departments is huge, and we've seen an increase of 2.4 per cent in the numbers attending since last year.

Thank you, First Minister. You will know that NHS Wales has a 12-hour waiting target for A&E, but last year over 122,000 people waited 12 or more hours. That's the second-highest figure on record. To put it simply, it means that about one in seven people were waiting at least 12 hours; in 2015, it was closer to one in 32.

We know there's a clear link between long waits, overcrowding and harm to patients in emergency departments. The Royal College of Emergency Medicine has estimated that last year, in Wales, an average of 18 deaths every week were associated with waits of 12 hours or more. That is an absolutely devastating figure for all those families involved. First Minister, long waits and overcrowded A&Es aren't inevitable and they aren't unsolvable, but if this isn't failure, what is it? Will you accept responsibility for these appalling outcomes, or will you continue to deny the reality facing patients across Wales? Thank you.

For the vast, vast majority of people, care is still clinically safe and effective. Let me just give you a sense of the scale of what we're dealing with here: 1.1 million people attended emergency departments in the past year, in a population of 3 million people. The vast majority were treated with dignity and care, and the average wait was under three hours. Now, do we want to do better? Of course we do. Is it acceptable for anybody to be in that situation? No, it's not—no, it's not. And that's why we are doing everything we can to make sure that we put the support in place. It's great to see that, because of that additional investment, the purple category response target time has been met every month since its launch. February saw a 21 per cent reduction in ambulance hours lost, and we have invested more in senior clinical decision makers at the front door. We've seen a 7 per cent increase in consultants. That's precisely what the Royal College of Emergency Medicine asked us to do, and we've done it.

One last question to the First Minister. 

Social care is at the heart of our commitment to communities. One of the key issues relating to social care is the need to ensure that we have enough social care workers. That's why one of the proudest achievements of this Government, in its first year, was to increase the amount we paid and to provide the real living wage to care workers. That's not something that's been seen in other parts of the United Kingdom.

Social care is funded and organised via local councils, and we recognise the financial pressures on them. That's why they will receive an extra £282 million in 2026-27, a 4.5 per cent uplift. In addition to that, we spend over £175 million on social care priorities, including £30 million for pathways of care, ensuring people get the care they need now and for the future.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Whilst I'm very tempted to make a political point at this very last juncture, I'm actually not going to, because I'd like us all—and I'd like to hear from you, First Minister—to pay credit to those social carers across Wales, many of whom are not paid that well, their working conditions are not that great, and they look after our most vulnerable and our most valued citizens. I'm sure we would all like to join in thanking them. In going forward, we need to see a better deal for those social carers, and, most importantly, a better deal for those patients who are waiting to have social care and can't leave our hospitals because that's not there. We need to see—in the next Government, I hope—a real commitment to social care. This is an opportunity to make sure—right now, right here—we thank them for the work that they do. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you very much, Jane. Can I thank you and pay credit to you for championing this cause? It's an important cause. Care workers are fundamental to ensuring that our communities work well. We're living in an ageing society, and we're going to need more not less when it comes to care workers. I'd also like to pay tribute to unpaid carers. They're the true heroes of our communities. They're the people who are holding up families across this nation. We've put an extra £91 million into the baseline as a result of that real living wage. That is a huge amount of money—a huge amount of money.

I'm really tempted to go for a very big political ending here, but I'm not going to do that, because I think you're right: let's end this First Minister's question on a note that I hope we can all agree on, and that is that the people in our communities who need respect, who deserve our respect, are those care workers, and in particular those unpaid carers who are doing so much to contribute to our communities.

Cabinet Secretary, can I please request a statement from you about the Supreme Court's judgment that clarifies that 'sex' under the Equality Act 2010 means 'biological sex' and, as such, single-sex spaces and services must be just that 'sex' only. It is coming up to a year since the Supreme Court made that ruling and still there's radio silence from the Welsh Labour Government. In December 2025, the Women's Rights Network, who have a very active group here in Wales, released their report into the use of mixed-sex changing rooms in leisure centres. Only three of the four police forces in Wales responded. Gwent Police did not supply data. However, the data provided by South Wales Police, North Wales Police and Dyfed-Powys Police demonstrated what anyone with any common sense knows: the safest changing room for women and girls is, indeed, a single-sex one. In one year alone, there were six reports of rape, two reports of sexual assault and seven reports of voyeurism. In at least 73 per cent of cases, the victim was a female, and in at least 87 per cent of cases, the alleged perpetrator was a male. Eighty-eight per cent occurred in a mixed-sex changing village, and many of these changing rooms are in local authority-maintained contracts. This is an issue of violence against women and girls, an issue that this Government claims to be serious about tackling. Given that the judgment of the Supreme Court was, in the words of Bridget Phillipson, and I quote, 'crystal clear', and the Equality and Human Rights Commission have stated that there is no need to wait for the code of practice to be published, why isn't this Government acting now to ensure the safety of women and girls in changing rooms in leisure centre facilities across Wales is taken seriously? A statement addressing these points is urgently needed. Thank you so much.

As you know, and I have reported on a number of occasions and, of course, issued statements as well, we are waiting for the outcome of the consideration by the UK Government and Westminster itself. Parliament now has an opportunity to look at the draft revised code of governance from the Equality and Human Rights Commission. As you know, I have met with all the groups who have been affected or have concerns, and there are great concerns, particularly, I would say, from the trans community, about the impact of the Supreme Court judgment. I would say, and I know that you're aware of this, Natasha, that the judge, at the time of the announcement of that Supreme Court judgment, did say that we must treat this issue with compassion and care.

Wales has a shortage of affordable housing. There is a lack of social housing built by councils and housing associations. Some of that shortfall has been filled by private landlords and the private rented sector. In parts of Swansea, privately rented housing is the major housing provider. Housing shortages still exist and is, at least in part, caused by second homes, empty homes and housing being removed from the housing market and used as Airbnbs. Airbnb is not just a holiday resort problem, it occurs everywhere. Can I ask for a written Government statement on controlling Airbnb density, as currently exists for houses in multiple occupation?

Thank you for that question. Of course, social housing is what we seek in terms of providing that all-important essential for people's lives in terms of housing. I would say, again, as the First Minister said earlier on today, the programme for government commitment to reach 20,000 additional homes for rent in the social housing sector is what this Welsh Government is delivering. It is also important that we look at the role of the private rented sector and it is important we look at, of course, the regulation of Airbnb as well, which we were only just addressing recently in terms of legislation.

I think it is important that we look at the fact that Wales has a lot to offer in terms of visitors, but we need to ensure that it's in a way that achieves a balance between our communities, businesses, landscapes and visitors. So, we are taking radical action, using the planning, property and taxation systems to achieve this, and it's very much a joined-up package of solutions to a complex set of issues. I'm glad you've raised it today, because, of course, communities face great challenge with large numbers of second homes, short-term holiday lets and empty homes. We are taking forward balanced solutions to tackle these problems.

Numerous times, I've raised my concerns here and asked for statements regarding the very dire situation that exists now at Ysbyty Glan Clwyd, in the A&E department. Now, this is directly from a patient: 'The most upset and vulnerable that I can remember. Not my usual comfort zone. I have been in A&E at Glan Clwyd Hospital, on a trolley, since Saturday night, being treated for meningitis.' I also asked the Cabinet Secretary for health. I've put urgent questions in on this. It goes on to say, 'There were no pillows so I had a hoodie to use. I've had a lumbar puncture on the same trolley that I've also been sleeping on, dripping blood from cannulas on it. A dangerous and vulnerable procedure needing complete infection control. I will not elaborate on the mouldy food found under the headrest of my sanitised trolley. My back is also now in pain from the lumbar puncture. Yesterday, I couldn't get a drink or go to the loo when I needed to because my drip is attached to the machine, which is attached to the said trolley bed. When I rang the call bell several times for over an hour at a time, nobody came. Shut away in a room with no observation or monitoring points.' Do you find that that's acceptable treatment for any patient? So, I would like a statement, or your response, to include—. I've asked the First Minister to visit A&E at Glan Clwyd, and I've asked and asked and requested for some intervention to stop these poor patients, who are waiting up to three days for attention, treatment, as it's so delayed. It's absolutely disgusting. And whoever is returned—

I've been extremely generous, Janet Finch-Saunders. 

I know, you have. You have. It's just so emotional. 

Can you just ask the final question of the Trefnydd?

Whoever is returned to this Welsh Government after 7 May, I just hope that they have the humility and the determination to once and for all fix our health service in Wales. I believe it’s us, the Welsh Conservatives—

Okay. Okay. I was very generous there. 

I know. It's emotional, though.

Well, it was also very political from you. 

And very long.

Thank you for the question, Janet Finch-Saunders. I can say that this is, of course, Betsi Cadwaladr, but I can also say, and I'm sure you were aware of this, that the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care has visited accident and emergency at Glan Clwyd Hospital and, of course, is very aware, as you asked the questions, and rightly so, in the Senedd, and we obviously had questions to the First Minister earlier on. And I think it goes back to the point that the First Minister made earlier on: urgent and emergency care in Wales is under significant and sustained pressure, particularly during peak demand periods such as evenings, weekends and in winter. For the vast majority of people, care is still clinically safe and effective. And I think, just to note, in February, as we get independent analysis of the situation, the average time spent in emergency departments before triage was 16 minutes, and people typically waited one hour and 15 minutes before assessment by a senior doctor. And the average time spent in emergency departments before admission to hospital or going home was two hours and 51 minutes last month. Historically, that time, February, in winter time, with winter pressures, was one of the most challenging months of the year. But it is true that the system is operating under pressure, and I know that you will, like us, want to—as we've just recognised the incredible role and contribution of our social care workers—also remember the incredible role and contributions of those who work at the sharp end in urgent and emergency care. And that is an important point to make in response to your question.

I know that the Trefnydd is aware that the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, CEDAW, their committee, is here in Cardiff this week for the very first time. And as she also will know, it's the fortieth anniversary of the ratification of CEDAW in the UK, and I'm very proud to say that Cardiff is the first city for CEDAW in Europe, with the Labour administration at Cardiff Council passing a motion in favour in March 2023. So, I think it is a very exciting occasion that we are welcoming and hosting this committee here this week. So, could I ask for a statement on what the outcomes are, the Trefnydd thinks, from this meeting and how the Welsh Government is progressing its CEDAW commitments?

Thank you very much, Julie Morgan. Yesterday, I did make the opening address at the conference. The conference was called 'From Global Convention to a "City for CEDAW"', and it was hosted by Cardiff Council—the first CEDAW city in Europe. Actually, the conference is ongoing, so in terms of outcomes, we will hear from them, I know. But it was important. It brought together academics, policy makers, practitioners, advocates from Wales, and it was about exchanging insights, sharing best practice, exploring practical applications and sparking fresh ideas to advance gender equality in service delivery. I think what was so impressive was that we had those international delegates there. But I was able to talk about ways in which Wales is progressing our commitment to the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women in Wales, and saying that we're seeking practical approaches to maximise, as the conference was discussing, real-world impact for people, with our devolved competence, and working very closely with our colleagues in other parts of the UK—closely working with Scotland, who had representation as well. I'm very pleased that we're publishing the independent work of the legislative options working group from our human rights advisory group, to strengthen the implementation of CEDAW and UNCRPD—the United Nations convention on the rights of disabled people. We were able to share good progress in Wales in relation to political participation, education, and also violence against women and domestic abuse.

I'd like to call for an update from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care on Digital Health and Care Wales and the ongoing progress, or the lack of progress, on the roll-out of digital health records. The Chief Medical Officer for Wales, Sir Frank Atherton, said that we have been behind the curve on digital records, making it difficult to identify vulnerable people during the COVID-19 pandemic, and it appears the Welsh Government have learned nothing since. Last year, the Welsh Government expressed serious concern about DHCW's capacity to deliver major national digital programmes. Audit reports have also noted governance and delivery challenges since DHCW were set up in 2021, with the Cabinet Secretary saying he was escalating DHCW because of the serious concerns about the organisation's ability to effectively deliver a number of major programmes. But we need an update on whether these issues are being fixed, because Wales is still in the dark ages when it comes to access to digital health records, and the roll-out is painfully slow. I'm aware that the digital maternity record app, Badger Notes, is supposed to be rolled out this month, but digital records need to be available across the board. So, can we hear from the Welsh Government what progress has been made in fixing the governance and delivery issues in DHCW, so that the Welsh people can benefit from a twenty first-century health service with a full-scale digitisation of NHS records? Thank you.

Well, I can assure the Member that progress is being made in progressing towards the digital health record. Progress is ongoing. The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care is very mindful of the importance of this, and progress is being made. And you may wish to ask him those questions, in terms of the last opportunity that you have this week.

We've all had contact at some stage over the past few months, and years, even, with the British Council Wales, and particularly the energetic leadership of Ruth Cocks, that embraces so many areas where devolved functions are involved, from culture, arts, and so on, to, of course, a lot of work also with the Ukrainian community in Wales, and the importance of this soft power. Of course, we realise that finances are difficult, and there's been a lot of pressure, particularly as this is, essentially, UK Government funding. Twice, the culture committee has written to the UK Government to raise the issue of funding of British Council Wales. Bearing in mind its importance specifically to Wales, in these last few days that are still here, will there be an opportunity for you to perhaps write to the UK Government, emphasising how important their work is specifically to Wales and some of our devolved functions? And we hope they'll be given all the support to enable them to be properly resourced to carry out the work they do.

Well, I'm grateful to Mick Antoniw for that question, recognising the incredibly important role of the British Council and the impact it has on Wales, the impact of the engagement with our schools. When I was education Minister, I always recall the fantastic links that schools have, children learning about global citizenship and linking up with schools across the world. I'm grateful that the culture committee has taken up this issue, and I'm very happy for myself or a colleague, as appropriate, to write to the UK Government with regard to the funding base. This is crucial in terms of that soft power, but it's about cultural influence, it's about human rights, and particularly the work that they've done to support Ukrainian citizens who are now with us in Wales and, indeed, not just here in Wales but across the world, in terms of those connections.

I call for a Welsh Government statement on support for people with cerebral palsy in Wales. This is Cerebral Palsy Awareness Month, and tomorrow is National Cerebral Palsy Awareness Day. Cerebral palsy remains the most common physical disability in children worldwide, with over 6,000 people living with the condition in Wales, and a baby diagnosed every five days. Throughout this month, Cerebral Palsy Cymru are raising awareness of the vital work they do. However, for the first time in their 32-year history, they're turning away babies who would benefit from their expertise and life-changing support after being forced to reduce their world-leading early intervention programme, Better Start, Better Future, due to insufficient funding, and to prioritise only the highest risk babies, leaving others without support, and increasing long-term costs to the NHS and social care. Without sustainable funding of £300,000 annually, they're currently running at just 30 per cent capacity. I call for an urgent statement accordingly, where Welsh Government should ensure that babies at risk of cerebral palsy receive clinically proven early intervention, designing and delivering services with third sector organisations.

Thank you very much, Mark Isherwood, and thank you for drawing attention, for this time of focus, on support for people with cerebral palsy, particularly looking at this in terms of the early intervention and support system. It is important that you put this on record, and I'm sure that this will then reflect in terms of parties' commitments and manifestos and, indeed, the seventh Senedd's and the seventh Government's recognition of these needs.

Trefnydd, can I ask you for an updated statement from the Welsh Government on community cohesion, building on questions to the First Minister? I'm very fortunate to represent a diverse constituency of communities that are all very proud to be Welsh. This Senedd has been a platform for a range of communities that I've been privileged to represent. I've celebrated Christian festivals, Diwali, the lunar new year, Jewish festivals, including some questionable dancing from some Senedd Members with Rabbi Rose, and, of course, the month of Ramadan in this Senedd. I was proud to sponsor an Iftar event here in the Senedd recently. It's also been a place of solidarity when communities have felt under threat by events in this country and around the world. I'm proud to have stood for and beside my constituents when things have been difficult, just as I have in times of celebration.

The recent antisemitic attack on ambulances in London is yet another painful example of extremism that targets British Jewish communities, who belong here with all the rights to tolerance and religious freedom that every Member in this Chamber expects for themselves. Can the Welsh Government also confirm that it does not share the views of Nick Timothy that public Iftar events are an attempt at domination, but they simply represent a normal part of Welsh and British life, just as Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, Sikh and other faith events do in our public and private places? Intolerance against one faith or community will make all of us less safe, as Pastor Niemöller discovered. I believe it's our responsibility to stand up for the different communities that make up the Wales of today. I hope that your statement will confirm that this Government is committed to acting to make that a practical reality.

Well, thank you very much indeed, Vaughan Gething, and thank you for—. You've made a very powerful statement today, which I think is important to go on the record, the importance of community cohesion, and, of course, also drawing examples of where hatred and division is so damaging to our communities and to all the great diversity in terms of faith and our communities that we represent, particularly that you represent and you've identified today.

I will be issuing, this week—and I'm going to update the Equality and Social Justice Committee—a statement following the work done by our expert group on social cohesion. This was the first recommendation of the Equality and Social Justice Committee's inquiry into social cohesion, and I asked Gaynor Legalle, who you very well know, Vaughan, Gaynor Legalle—to chair that expert group. It had a wide range of experts on the group, including representatives from the South Wales Jewish Representative Council and, indeed, also the Muslim Council of Wales. It had many of the people who sit on our faith communities forum, which has been so powerful over the years. It has come up with some very strong recommendations about the principles of community cohesion and, of course, it also fits into our Hate Hurts Wales campaign, and many of the points that we exchanged—the First Minister exchanged—earlier on with Peredur. So, I'm glad you have brought this to attention so I can then preview and forewarn all Members across this Chamber of this written statement that I'm making, and to bear in mind those points that we made earlier today about how we work together to address this issue leading up to the seventh Senedd and the 7 May elections.

Trefnydd, can I ask for a statement, please, from the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government on standards and transparency in local government? A Liberal Democrat council leader reached an agreement with Plaid Cymru ahead of the budget meeting that included £100,000 of public funding delivered via Menter Iaith Maldwyn. At the meeting itself, the funding did not appear in the budget papers, no declarations of interest were made by a Plaid Cymru councillor linked to that organisation, Plaid Cymru then supported the budget and it passed. The ombudsman has confirmed that an agreement existed and that members were likely aware of it and that personal and prejudicial interest would likely have arisen, yet no breach was found because the funding was not formally included in the papers at the time of the vote.

To me, there seems to be a little bit of ambiguity there, Trefnydd, and I think it's important for us that, when these things are debated, it's done in a transparent way. So, I'd like a statement, please, from the Cabinet Secretary for local government about how we can strengthen the ombudsman process to make sure that, if public money is moving around between people, that it is done in a transparent way and that councillors formally declare their interest if they are receiving financial benefit for a company they're involved with.

Thank you for that question, James Evans—of course, strictly regulated in terms of the role and purpose of the ombudsman, access to the ombudsman, and, indeed, to the matters that you have raised in terms of local government as well.

The British Red Cross does brilliant work across the world looking after people caught up in the all too many conflicts raging across our world. It also cares for people in emergency circumstances in Wales as well, and its call for the next Senedd is for us to continue to be a resilient, welcoming Wales. Could you just tell us what the Welsh Government does to support them in that mission, which I hope that we all support?

Thank you very much, Jenny Rathbone. The British Red Cross is a trusted partner, isn't it? We recognise that—a trusted partner here locally in Wales, UK, across the world. It delivers essential integration and safeguarding support for families who've lawfully arrived in Wales, ensuring lived experience directly strengthens how our services work. I think we must recognise that this is something where, although immigration routes and decisions remain entirely reserved to the UK Government, our role, and as part of our commitment to the nation of sanctuary, is to ensure that people who are already here can integrate safely and avoid harm. So, I'm very pleased that we are able to support the British Red Cross's Expert by Experience programme, which provides invaluable insight, improving public services, strengthening cohesion—we've just been talking about that—delivering better value for money.

And just to say also, it's about the—. I met some ambassadors at the official opening of their offices in Cardiff, the British Red Cross offices, and to meet the ambassadors, the caseworkers, the dedicated staff and teams of British Red Cross was a great honour today.

Trefnydd, it's been nearly a year since the Supreme Court ruled that sex means biological sex. The law is clear—a man is a man and a woman is a woman—but you have delayed, dodged and done absolutely nothing to push for clarity or to speed up the process to adapt policy to protect women and girls across Wales. This is the last week in the Chamber of the Senedd today, and you have failed to come forward to clarify your position. This Government and the Labour Government in the UK has shown exactly what it stands for: confusion, cowardice and complete disregard for women's safety and fairness. Reform knows what a woman is, and we will protect girls and women in Wales. Your Government, and therefore councils, have taken no action to right these wrongs. So, Cabinet Secretary, will you use this last Chamber session to apologise right here, right now, to the women and girls in Wales for this complete dereliction of duty?

I just wonder—. I mean, I've answered the question. I don't intend to repeat what I said earlier on in the afternoon. I just wonder how committed you and Reform are to our national violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence strategy, which actually puts a public health approach at the heart of tackling the endemic violence against women. I wonder how committed you are to the fact that we're allocating around £53 million from my social justice budget to deliver the objectives of the violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence strategy. And it's those victims and the survivors I'm concerned about as Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice.

And I hope you do listen and will listen to the survivors of violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual—[Interruption.] I hope you will listen. You clearly don't want to listen to their experience, to hear their voices and real-life experience of what it is like to be a survivor of the endemic violence against women, which, of course, I've always felt across this Chamber has had some support, and I think particularly, I would say, from men across this Chamber when we come together for White Ribbon Day.

Diolch yn fawr. I think there is great collaboration between local authorities—particularly, I would say, between Cardiff Council and the Vale of Glamorgan Council—on a number of policy issues, relating not just to education, but health and social care. And I'm sure that these issues are being raised at that level by those democratic bodies of Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan.

Given that, I think—is this the last question, acting Llywydd? Can I just say, one of the things that I was very proud of when I was education Minister was the fact it was during a period of time when we were working very closely to ensure that we delivered a strengthened and emboldened Welsh-medium education strategy for Wales? I do feel that that is something that we should all be proud of in terms of our first quarter of a century of this Senedd.

Diolch, and I wish to declare personal interest. I have a close family member who is currently a student at Swansea University.

Llywydd, I am delighted to update Members on the support that we provide to learners in further and higher education. Throughout this sixth Senedd term, our priority has been to ensure that everyone, no matter their background, can access education and thrive. The progress of the last five years demonstrates that commitment. We began this Senedd term during a period of profound uncertainty. Young people faced economic instability, cost-of-living pressures and significant strain on household budgets. Throughout this, we have protected and enhanced a student support system that remains the most progressive in the UK. We have done this because we know that education transforms lives, strengthens communities and drives opportunity for our nation.

In further education, where participation is increasing, our commitment to supporting learners remains clear. We continue to provide the most generous education maintenance allowance in the UK, offering £40 a week to help thousands of young people to continue their studies. EMA no longer exists in England, and remains at £30 a week in Scotland and Northern Ireland. Raising the household income thresholds has enabled more than 1,000 additional learners to receive EMA for the first time, bringing the total to 17,875 learners for the 2025-26 academic year. A further threshold increase in 2026-27 will extend support to another 1,585 learners. These changes ensure more young people can remain in education and overcome the financial barriers that could otherwise limit their success.

After listening to learners' experiences, we are strengthening guidance on attendance and payments, so young people understand the system and can access the support they are entitled to. Alongside EMA, we strengthened the Welsh Government learning grant for further education by increasing the maximum full-time grant from £1,500 to £1,919, an uplift of £419 for every student. This ensures adults returning to education are not excluded by the cost of study. That decision reflects our belief in lifelong learning, and Wales is benefiting from increased numbers of part-time learners in further education.

In higher education, we have maintained as fair and progressive a student finance system as possible. Provision of non-repayable grants remains an essential part of this approach, with the highest levels of grant targeted to students from households with the lowest incomes. I am pleased that, for the 2026-27 academic year, maintenance support will increase by 2 per cent, including the first uplift to maintenance grants since 2018. Grants for students with dependents and students with a disability will also increase by 2 per cent.

This support matters. It ensures that living costs do not become a barrier to study. Part-time study continues to be one of Wales's strengths. Part-time study is vital for upskilling, retraining and widening access, and here Wales leads the way. In 2023-24, 37 per cent of Welsh students studied part time, a significantly higher proportion than elsewhere in the UK. This reflects both the flexibility of our system and our commitment to widening participation.

Postgraduate study also remains a vital pillar of Wales’s skills base and research ecosystem. Growing interest in postgraduate pathways in recent years underlines the strong appeal of advanced study in Wales. Our postgraduate support package is among the most generous in the UK, and contribution to costs loans for Master’s and doctoral study will rise by 2 per cent in 2026-27.

We have also taken action to safeguard Welsh borrowers. We have retained plan 2 repayment terms for Welsh students, and protected Welsh graduates from the regressive effects of freezing the student loan repayment threshold. We also continue to provide a partial write-off of up to £1,500 of student debt for eligible borrowers—a scheme unique in the UK. Together, these actions maintain a progressive repayment system for Welsh borrowers.

We recognise the pressures facing the higher education sector, here in Wales and globally. Rising costs, demographic change and international competition pose real challenges. To support institutional sustainability, we will increase full-time undergraduate tuition fee caps in Wales to £9,790 from 2026-27, in line with England. The corresponding tuition fee loan will also increase, maintaining our long-standing commitment that no student pays fees upfront. This is expected to provide around £19 million of additional income to Welsh institutions in 2026-27.

This will be the third consecutive annual increase to the fee caps, further strengthening the financial resilience of institutions. Alongside this, we provided an additional £38.5 million in grants in 2024-25 via Medr, and I was pleased recently to announce a further £25.5 million in capital funding, to be shared equally between colleges and universities. These actions will help institutions across Wales to manage participation pressures and continue delivering high-quality opportunities for learners.

The launch of our call for submissions on the future of tertiary education in Wales reflects both the progress made this Senedd term and the major challenges ahead. The five major challenges outlined are: participation and equality of opportunity; demographic change and lifelong learning; competition and collaboration; financial sustainability; and delivering for communities and the future of the economy.

The call for submissions will help build a robust evidence base to inform policy and help shape a thriving tertiary education sector fit for the future. Early feedback from stakeholders has been strong, and my ministerial advisory group, which brings together leaders and experts from across further and higher education, research, civic partners and student bodies, is providing invaluable insight. I've also engaged directly with learners and staff across Wales through a series of round-table discussions. Alongside the call for submissions, our evaluation of the Diamond reforms will provide further insight on widening access and strengthening part-time and postgraduate provision, helping to ground future decisions in robust evidence.

Llywydd, I am proud of what has been achieved. We have protected support for learners during one of the most challenging economic periods in recent times. We have expanded access to further education, safeguarded maintenance grants, strengthened undergraduate and postgraduate support, and taken steps to support institutional sustainability. Our student finance system remains the most progressive in the UK, and our commitment to widening participation is clear.

We must, however, acknowledge the pressures facing the student finance system. Ensuring the long-term affordability of both student support and institutional funding will be a central task for the next Senedd. The evidence being gathered will provide a strong foundation for addressing these challenges. Wales faces these challenges from a position of strength. Our values, our commitment to fairness and our collaborative approach across Government, providers and communities leave us well placed to navigate the challenges ahead.

Supporting learners is one of the most important responsibilities of Government. The progress of recent years is significant and it must continue. By maintaining a commitment to equity, sustainability and opportunity, we can ensure that every learner in Wales has the chance to fulfil their potential.

I listened intently, Minister, to your statement, but it felt like a lot of warm words to me, because when it comes to support for further and higher education, for students, it doesn't seem to be cutting through. Minister, according to UCAS's figures, Wales had the lowest application rate for higher education in the UK, standing at less than a third of students. Our application rates have also dropped by 2 per cent in the last three years, and we're about 10 per cent behind England's application rates. A-level participation rates are down a staggering 12 per cent since 2022 and Universities Wales last year only stated, and I quote,

'This is a concerning situation which will have long term implications for Wales. The industries that will drive our economic growth in the decades to come rely heavily on graduates. If Welsh people are not gaining these skills, Wales’ economy will find itself at an economic disadvantage compared to the rest of the UK, where the proportion of graduates in the workforce will be higher.'

I'd like to know, Minister, what efforts you are going to be making to drive up those participation rates via student support. Minister, it's clear that Wales is facing a widening gap in participation, and some of the main reasons for many Welsh students staying away are the cost of living and being saddled with future debt. And yet, tuition fees will rise again to £9,790 a year for undergraduate tuition. Minister, you admitted that last year's hikes were, indeed, to offset national insurance increases, so can you confirm that this is what young people are now paying for, rather than an investment in their future careers?

Minister, as you know, it's the interest on student loans that is the real kicker, with graduates paying 9 per cent of everything they earn over the repayment threshold on plan 2 loans. While plan 2 loans are no longer available in England, they still apply right here in Wales. Therefore, what plans do you and your colleagues in Westminster have to reduce the interest on plan 2 loans, which we, as the Welsh Conservatives, would certainly support? I also note that the Welsh Government has claimed that it will not follow the UK Government's lead in freezing the income threshold on plan 2 loans from April 2027, so what does the Minister envisage happening after that date?

Minister, I keep labouring this point, but roadblocks are routinely being placed on young people on their path towards higher education, specifically by your Government. Let's take degree apprenticeships, for example. They are limited to just a few subjects here in Wales. Over the border, you can gain a qualification from law to accounting, from nursing to radiology, all whilst earning a wage. Minister, I ask the same question to you as I did the First Minister: do you therefore take responsibility for the loss of students by failing to introduce more course choices in universities, such as degree apprenticeships, and will you admit that Wales is behind the times? 

Minister, we also keep hearing about 2027 as some sort of magical date for Medr to review key areas in tertiary education, such as degree apprenticeships, so why has the can been kicked down the road to 2027, Minister? I'd really like to have your feedback on that. And does your Government admit that the writing is on the wall for May 2026?

Turning to further education, we have the opposite problem in that Welsh further education institutions are becoming more popular. However, there is a mismatch here between the attractiveness of vocational education and the number of apprenticeships offered by the Welsh Government. Whilst I would extend my congratulations to your party for claiming to meet their apprenticeships target, I note that the Office for Statistics Regulation has written to the First Minister about the selective use of this figure, and that the actual figure, excluding drop-outs after eight weeks, is, in fact, 92,800. Not only has this Welsh Labour Government failed to meet the reduced apprenticeship target based on the rigorous measure it has used before, but this denotes a wider difficulty in supporting young people after 16.

While I note that £40 a week is, indeed, available for those on the education maintenance allowance, many young people are priced out of this benefit due to the low household income threshold. As such, Minister, what extra support are you going to be giving young people who need to use, for example, public transport, to get to college on time? Because, if you were to extend free bus and rail travel to 16 to 24-year-olds, as we have outlined in our manifesto, I would certainly have no objection. Thank you very much.

I'd like to thank Natasha Asghar for the series of questions there, and I'll start with your point on participation. I think the key point, to start with, is that our higher education initial participation measure shows that the estimated probability of a Welsh domiciled person participating in HE by the age of 30 is 54.6 per cent, and that's higher than anywhere else in the UK. You can use UCAS data, of course, and you can pick that as the marker that you want to follow, but I look at the evidence that shows the probability of all Welsh people of all ages entering university and succeeding. On that measure, we are the best placed in the UK. Going to those UCAS data figures, I'm pleased to see that the number of placed applicants from Wales has increased, and the number of 18-year-old placed applicants from the most deprived areas in Wales has also increased in that latest round of data. 

You talk about student support. I'm very happy to talk about student support, because we do, of course, have here in Wales the most generous student support offer in the UK. That is something that has come out very strongly through our evaluation of the Diamond review. We focus that support on those students who come from the least well-off households. From those households, you can have up to 66 per cent of your total funding in non-repayable grants. That's a unique system in the UK, in stark contrast to England, where students from the households with the lowest incomes leave university with the most debt. 

In the next academic year, we will be increasing living costs support again, by 2 per cent—the first uplift to maintenance grants included within that since 2018. And we also provide grants to students with other circumstances, such as if they are disabled, or if they are dependent as well. I'm very proud of this Welsh Labour Government's record on student support. It's our priority to ensure that everyone, no matter their background, can access higher education, and that living costs should never be a barrier to studying at university. 

If I turn to your next point about interest on student loans, again, this is an area where I'm proud of the actions of this Welsh Labour Government. Only Welsh Ministers can set the repayment threshold for Welsh borrowers, and the First Minister recently confirmed to this Senedd that the Welsh Government has no intention of freezing the plan 2 repayment threshold for Welsh borrowers. Plan 2 payment terms are much more progressive than plan 5, which was adopted in England. Our plan is better for most borrowers because it's got a 30-year repayment period, unlike the 40-year repayment period on plan 5 in England. After that 30-year period, any remaining debt is cancelled or written off. That is in addition to our unique policy whereby we cancel up to £1,500 of each borrower's loan debt when they begin repayments—a scheme that is unique in the UK. And, of course, it's on top of the £1,000 grant that is available to all learners from all backgrounds. 

In terms of FE participation, you're absolutely right: FE has shown an increase in participation—a substantial increase over the past two years. That reflects the strength and quality of our further education system and this Welsh Labour Government's huge investment in the estate through the twenty-first century schools programme and the sustainable communities for learning programme, which have led to brand-new, first-rate facilities up and down this country. 

Our apprenticeship offer is also strong. It is one that we are proud of, delivering 100,000 all-age apprenticeships, at no cost to the businesses who participate in those, in conjunction with FE colleges. Interest in apprenticeships is absolutely growing. The Cabinet Secretary for Education, the Minister for skills and I are united in our belief that the way forward is to provide the right educational route for each and every learner. That is something that will come out through our call for evidence on the future of the tertiary education system, and we look forward to being able to deliver on that. 

You talked about EMA. I'm very pleased that you decided to identify that within your comments, because, of course, we retained EMA here in Wales when the UK Tory Government decided to scrap it more than 10 years ago. Over the past few years, not only have we increased the amount available to £40 a week, which is the highest in the UK, but also, by amending the household income threshold, we have taken thousands more students into that system, providing them with funding so that they can support their studies, their travel and any equipment that they may need. 

On that point on bus travel, this Welsh Labour Government is very proud of its £1 bus travel that's been extended to those up to the age of 21. It's really making a difference to those learners wishing to access travel to FE. We're proud that that is one of our manifesto pledges—to continue to provide that offer if we are re-elected in May.

Participation doesn't exist in a vacuum. For many students, the biggest barrier isn't ambition or aspiration, it's cost. For students in Wales, fees are rising faster than support available to them. The Welsh Government had to use a lower measure of inflation—the consumer price index—for its student support this year than the measure it used for fee rises, which is RPIX. That means fees rose faster than maintenance support this year, leaving students over £1,000 short of where they should have been. This is quite simply happening because Welsh policy is dictated by Westminster policy. Do you believe this is the right approach? Due to constraints imposed by the UK Treasury, Wales is being forced to be less supportive of our students as a result.

Research from the National Union of Students Cymru, for example, shows that our students are struggling. Over 85 per cent of them say the cost of living is affecting them. Nearly 90 per cent are struggling to cover basic essentials—rent, food, transport. These are the basics, not luxuries or desirables. More than a third of our students are having to work over 10 hours a week during term time, not to gain experience or to build their CVs, but to survive. This comes at a cost to their studies and well-being. This is a failure of basic common sense. Do you agree that our education system can't go on like this, with our institutions on their knees, our students struggling, and a lack of serious strategy to tackle these issues?

What Plaid Cymru is proposing is a comprehensive and independent review of the higher education sector's funding module. This is something the sector is calling for. It's what we have called for consistently as a party. It's something that you as a Government know is needed, but have refused to support. So, why aren't you supporting the sector's call for an independent, wide-ranging review?

My final point is this: we will always want to encourage our young people to study and expand their horizons, but we believe strongly in supporting our higher education system here in Wales, and it's why we desperately need this independent review. Would you agree with me that it's essential to have that review so that we can support, as you say in your statement, every young person's opportunity to fulfil their potential?

I'd like to thank Cefin Campbell for those questions. First, I agree with your opening remarks about the intrinsic value of education in supporting the Welsh economy. That's why I've been so pleased to work closely with my colleague Rebecca Evans, Cabinet Secretary for the economy, and my colleague Jack Sargeant, the Minister for skills, on a wide range of issues, particularly on research, development and innovation and the role that our further and higher education sector can make to the economy moving forward.

That's a very strong theme of our ministerial advisory group and the call for evidence that we have put out. I've no doubt that, when those submissions come in in the coming weeks, it will provide a very strong steer for any incoming Welsh Government. I know that a Welsh Labour Government will place that right at the heart of the strategy moving forward.

Turning to participation in higher education, just to repeat some of the points that I made to Natasha Asghar there, I am very proud that we have the highest rate of participation in HE when you look at the stats that take that right up to adult learners. That is exactly where we should be looking, because we know that people will need to reskill and uptrain through the course of their lives. University and further education should be seen as a very important part of that process and that life journey for all Welsh citizens.

We are, of course, continuing to work hard to increase the rates of participation in HE through a number of initiatives, not just our very generous student support package—which is the most progressive in the UK and helps those from the least advantaged backgrounds most in terms of non-repayable grant funding—but also through other schemes such as Medr's Reaching Wider programme, which engages with those students who have the potential to go to university but might not yet have thought that it's for them. I'm very much looking forward to my visit to Swansea University later this week to see that programme in action.

There's also the Seren programme, which has been expanded to ensure that it reaches those learners who may not yet have considered university but are marked as being the highest achievers. I'm very proud of the way that the Seren programme has developed in recent years its links with our Welsh universities in particular. Every single university in Wales has now engaged with the Seren programme, and we have seen some really good successes coming out of that. For example, over 80 per cent of students who attended a Seren summer school at Cardiff University for medicine then applied to Cardiff University. I want to see more programmes like that across the breadth of Wales. I'm very encouraged by the enhanced links between each of our universities and the Seren programme.

I'm also proud of our Study in Wales programme and its branding and the way that it has reached out to gather international students, particularly now that we have made it very clear here in Wales that we will not be implementing the international student levy. That is a programme that we are already working on in Government to strengthen in regard to the way that it reaches out to Welsh domiciled students as well. I think that a key part of the cost-of-living pressures is showing to Welsh students that they can choose to study closer to home, to commute to university, and to save on living costs that way. 

You talked about the cost-of-living pressures facing students. That's something that this Government is acutely aware of. That's why we have raised the maintenance grants and loans available to all students. While we ensure that no student pays fees upfront, while we have that universal £1,000 grant, which is available to every student regardless of household income and regardless of where they study, for each and every year of their degree, while we also have our unique policy of cancelling up to £1,500 of student loan as soon as that student starts repaying and, of course, staying on the plan 2 repayment policy, which is much more progressive and kicks in once that income threshold has been reached—. And those payments, of course, cease any time that individual dips below the repayment threshold and those costs are written off after 30 years, a much better scheme than in England, where it's 40 years.

You talked, Cefin, about the fact that opportunities shouldn't be based on family background or postcode, and that's something that I agree with you on 100 per cent, and that's why I and my colleagues in Welsh Labour really struggle to see where Plaid's policy on student maintenance is headed. The fact that you have spoken openly about your desire to withdraw maintenance support from students who study outside of Wales should be a real worry and a real concern to young people who are heading to the ballot boxes in May. That would create a two-tier system, where only those from the most affluent homes can choose where they wish to study, and that's not something that this Welsh Labour Government should ever support. We have eight fantastic universities in Wales, and I wish to do everything in my power to support them, but that must be done by showing the advantages that each of those institutions have, not by penalising students about where they wish to study.

The final point I'll end on is Plaid's call for a review of the HE sector. I think you are a bit out of touch and behind the times here, because since I set up my ministerial group and my call for evidence, every single stakeholder is keen to progress with change, with progress. And what this sector needs, as it faces a whole host of global financial challenges and immigration challenges, is certainly not an incoming Government that will sit on its hands and take more time to review situations when the evidence will be there for how a progressive Government should be moving forward.

Thank you, Minister, for that comprehensive update. I know this is something that you are personally and politically passionate about. I very much agree with your sentiment in a recent article, that if a 17-year-old student at Coleg y Cymoedd or Coleg Cambria dreams of studying at a world-leading institution outside Wales, they have no less right to pursue that dream than their counterparts at Eton or Harrow, and no Government should prevent them from pursuing that ambition. But, Minister, I'm not the only one that agrees with that. Last week I took part in the Senedd Explains Instagram takeover, and as part of this I did a poll asking should Welsh students get the same level of financial support if they study outside of Wales? Seventy-six per cent of respondents agreed that this should be the case and that young people should not be financially penalised for pursuing their dreams. So, do you agree, Minister, that Plaid Cymru would be wrong to limit support for some Welsh learners, and that Welsh Labour doesn't just talk the talk when it comes to equality of opportunity, we walk the walk and show equity of support too? Diolch.

I'd like to thank Hannah Blythyn for that question and for the commitment you show, Hannah, to support learners in your constituency and to reach out to them to gather their views. I'm not surprised at that high percentage of respondents who believe that student support should be given to students wherever they choose to study. It is a real worry to me that at times when we need to increase the number of our young people going to university, when we have a shortage of graduates here in Wales, Plaid Cymru would consider a policy that financially penalised those who wish to study outside of Wales. We have fantastic universities here in Wales. I'd be the first to advocate for them, but we need to prove a positive case for studying at those. And for learners whose courses might not be on offer at a university of their choosing within Wales, they should have the financial freedom to access those courses anywhere else in the UK. That is the principle of this Welsh Labour Government and it will remain the principle of this Welsh Government if we are re-elected in May.

Thank you, acting Deputy Presiding Officer. The First Minister set out a clear vision for this Government. Under her leadership, the Government would prioritise delivery, making tangible progress on the things that matter most to the people of Wales: better health, more jobs, better transport and more homes. It has been my job as the Minister for Delivery to drive forward the First Minister’s priorities, working very closely with my colleagues from across the Cabinet.

We set ourselves incredibly ambitious targets. Indeed, our Welsh Labour manifestos have always been ambitious for our nation and for what we can achieve. But our targets also ensured that we, the civil service and our partners in delivery all strained every sinew to deliver until the very last day of this administration. And that is what we are doing. We have sharpened our focus. We have brought in external expertise to improve our capabilities at the centre of this Government, to learn from the best practice across the world, to be more data-led, more focused and to supercharge our pace. Leadership, after all, is about focus. It is about setting clear expectations and prioritising. It is about saying, 'This is what matters most', and then driving it forward with pace and ambition. That is what our First Minister has done, and the results are clear.

On better health, there has been the largest and most sustained reduction in the overall waiting lists on record and the fastest fall in two-year waits. On more jobs, we have directly supported more than 50,000 private sector jobs this term and created over 100,000 apprenticeship opportunities. On better transport, we have improved roads and transformed our rail fleet, with more services running more often and going further. And finally, and certainly not least, more homes—the highest sustained delivery of social housing in two decades.

Delivery on this scale would have been a challenge in ordinary times, but, of course, this is a Government that has delivered through extraordinary times: the end of the pandemic, the Ukraine war and its impact on the cost-of-living crisis, the disastrous Liz Truss mini budget and its catastrophic effects on inflation, as well as the ongoing uncertainty on the global stage. We have delivered despite all the headwinds stacked against us. And frankly, I could talk to you about the detail of our delivery for hours. I could tell you about the over £2 billion we invested in housing to drive record delivery levels, or the £800 million we’ve invested in a new rail fleet. But the First Minister’s priorities have been my focus for a reason that we never lose sight of: they are the things that change people’s lives. So, let me reflect on that.

The £800 million invested in rail is not just new trains, it is more services along the core Valleys lines. It is doubling the frequency of services between Chester and Wrexham. It is extra trains on the Heart of Wales line and it is late-evening trains between, for example, Cardiff and Treherbert or Aberdare and Merthyr Tydfil. It is strengthening connections between our communities and boosting our economies.

The over £2 billion invested in housing is not just a record level of housing delivery, hitting the most ambitious social housing target in our nation's history, it is the children who have somewhere to do their homework in safety and warmth and families living in secure accommodation at affordable rents. There are housing sites all over Wales that I could point to, but let me focus on a few that have completed just in the past few months: the Ty Darran site in Caerphilly, which provides 45 new two-bedroomed and three-bedroomed flats; the Lansdowne Hospital site in Cardiff, which is creating 107 new homes; or the Samlet Road scheme in Swansea that’s creating 35 new homes. Each one is a home that changes people's lives, and we've delivered them at record levels.

And our health figures show the longest and most sustained reduction of the waiting list and the fastest fall in two-year waits. The approach we have taken and the work of staff across health and social care has led to changes people can really feel. People are being seen more quickly, with the average waiting time now falling to 18 weeks. They have had more choice in when they are seen, with 187,000 additional out-patient appointments delivered this year in evenings and on weekends. We are on track to deliver 40,000 cataract operations this year, meaning up to 40,000 people have better vision, improving their daily lives.

Acting Deputy Presiding Officer, following the pandemic, too many people were waiting for too long. We have reduced two-year waits by 19,000, a 78 per cent reduction. At the same time, we have made it much less likely that people will need to wait so long in the future, by providing appointments or treatments to 138,000 people who were at risk of waiting for two years. If you should be at home, but are still in hospital, then, on average, you are now discharged a week faster with many more people receiving the services they need to recover and regain their independence.

We’ve followed up our women’s health plan with practical action by introducing a women’s health hub in each health board area, providing a single point of contact to improve women’s experience of healthcare.

And last but certainly not least, there are the 50,000 jobs we’ve directly supported in the private sector in this Senedd term. They show how we are backing the businesses that give people across Wales good work opportunities and play a vital role in their local economies. And we should and we will celebrate the significant milestone of delivering 100,000 apprenticeships. But we will remember too that every one of those opportunities went to a person in Wales, who put themselves forward and prepared to develop themselves to get new skills, to get a vocation that gives them security and purpose.

Acting Deputy Presiding Officer, we started this Government in 2021 with the recovery from the pandemic firmly in mind. Our Welsh Labour manifesto, translated into a programme for government, focused on what matters to people the most. And we have delivered that and fulfilled that promise. Diolch.

Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today at the funeral of the Welsh Labour Party after 27 long years, and the cause of death of this Welsh Labour Government will be a Government that has continually missed targets, failed to deliver and made promise after promise that failed to come through. Now, my jaw almost dropped to the floor when I saw the title of this statement—'better health', when we have the longest NHS waiting lists anywhere in the United Kingdom; 'better transport' from a Government that prioritised 20 mph speed limits, cancelled road-building projects right across the country. The title said 'more jobs', when under this Labour Government and the Labour Government in Westminster—since they were elected, we've seen unemployment increase every single month because of their handling of the economy, and 'more homes', when they know they missed their one housing target and had to delay the implementation of it. It is such a tone-deaf statement from a Government that has consistently failed to deliver on the people's priorities.

This is a Government that spent money, £120 million, on more politicians in this Senedd term, and it prioritised vanity projects across the globe, mini embassies right across the world, including three in China. And we know, don't we, about the Labour Party's links with China. They've also seen gender-neutral tree planting happening in Uganda and solar-powered canoes for the Wampís tribe in Peru.

All the while, services at home were suffering, with the longest NHS waits anywhere in the UK. No wonder NHS staff and patients have turned their backs on this Welsh Labour Government. The worst educational outcomes anywhere in the UK. One in five kids leaving school functionally illiterate. There is no wonder that teaching staff and parents have turned their backs on this Welsh Labour Government. And the weakest economy anywhere in the UK, with the lowest pay packets anywhere in the UK, stopping small businesses from growing. And those that feel the pinch of the cost-of-living crisis inflicted by the Westminster Labour Government feel it even more in Wales because of the handling of the economy by this Welsh Labour Government. It is no surprise to me that small business owners and those struggling with cost-of-living pressures are also turning their backs on this Welsh Labour Government.

But the question is, as we close the chapter, mercifully, after 27 long, arduous years of a Labour Government: what replaces it? Wales is broken, and they have broken it—[Interruption.]

You can't be the problem and the solution.

And Plaid and the Liberal Democrats will pretend in this election that they can offer the change that Wales needs. But, Llywydd, the building has been burnt down, so why on earth would you put the arsonists who helped the Labour Party back in charge, in the seat of power, to try and rebuild it? It is totally nonsensical, because, every step of the way, every one of those decisions, that record is as much Plaid Cymru's, and it is as much the Liberal Democrat's record, as it is the Labour Party's record in Wales. Why on earth would you trust them to fix the problems that they themselves created with the Labour Party?

You can't be the problem and the solution.

And if you're looking to reconstruct a building after 27 years, why would you choose an architect that didn't have a plan and has no experience whatsoever with the way it works and the way that building gets rebuilt? It is totally nonsensical to put a bunch of amateurs like Reform in charge when they have no prospect, ideas or plan as to how to rebuild the failed Labour record in Wales.

Llywydd dros dro, what we need is a Welsh Conservative Government here in Wales, a team with the talent and the experience to be able to deliver, with the plans to grow our economy in Wales, to scrap business rates for small businesses to help our economy grow, to cut stamp duty to help younger people onto the housing market, to reduce income tax to help people with the cost-of-living crisis inflicted by the UK Labour Government.

So, do you agree with me, Counsel General, that the only choice at this election to recover the failed record of 27 years of a Labour Government is to vote Welsh Conservatives to get Wales working?

Well, I think there was a question in there somewhere, acting Deputy Presiding Officer; I think there was. I would say, Tom, that you should be on the stage, but actually, that metaphor or analogy—I'm not sure which—was so tangled that I don't think you could even make a joke out of it. And what a terrible tone you started with. But it does give me the chance to just remind you that this is a conversation not couched in rhetoric such as the one you've just shown us, but in actual facts.

So, the published statistics show two-year waits are reducing by 78 per cent since August 2024, the fastest fall on record. The estimate for February shows a further reduction to 4,500, which is a decrease of 81 per cent since August 2024. These are facts. We are now seeing monthly reductions in an area that is usually subject to monthly fluctuations, which is an extraordinary achievement. And just for a context to these figures, at the start of the year, using management information, it was estimated that 146,000 pathways would have breached the two-year limit had we not acted. And boy did we act.

And the tone-deaf start to your submission today, from a party with not a single MP in Wales, who does not control a single council, that is absolutely not in a position to speak for the people of Wales, is quite extraordinary, and really you should think about some of the tones that you use.

But let me address some of the things that you raised. The 20 mph shibboleth, a policy that has cleaned up our air, has saved the lives of children, has stopped countless families from suffering the misery of extreme injury and death, has lowered the insurance costs of most people across Wales, and has saved the NHS a lot of money by any measure, is one that you should be embracing. And let me tell you this as well, because the Tories certainly don't know anything about social justice: 20 mph is a real social justice issue. It makes streets safer for women and children. It makes them safe to walk on without you suffering from poor air. It makes people safer in our cities and towns. The idea that you want to drive faster at the risk of a child's life should be something that you are thoroughly ashamed of.

And let me turn to a couple of the other little cultural things that you got onto: embassies around the world—embassies that are currently helping people from Wales escape war, something that would not happen if you were in charge, and thank goodness you never will be. You talked about trees—trees that keep the world from being on fire, that help communities other than ours, help our communities, and that people on your own benches have had lovely photographs with, in times when you weren't getting on the bandwagon. [Interruption.] Where is Joel to stand beside you when you criticise the trees in Uganda that he was so very happy to have his photograph taken by?

You haven't got a single policy of any credibility. The IFS echoed something that I say to Darren Millar very regularly: you are economically illiterate, you do not understand the value of public service, and you never should be in charge of any kind of Government.

These end-of-term statements delivered in the final days before an election too often descend into pantomime. I think we've just seen an example of that. Government says everything—[Interruption.] Government says everything has been delivered; opposition says nothing has. Neither performance is serious enough for the moment we're in, because it's not credible to say this Government has done nothing. After two decades of argument, Senedd reform has finally been delivered in law. Universal free school meals in primary schools have been rolled out across Wales. Bus reform is on the statute book. Those are real achievements. They matter and we should be honest enough to say so. But honesty cuts both ways.

Once we move from lines to take to the outcomes people actually live with, the picture does become much harder for Ministers. On health, more than 700,000 treatment pathways are still waiting to begin. Over 5,000 people have been waiting more than two years, despite Labour's commitment to eliminate such long waits entirely. Cancer performance remains far below the 62-day target. Diagnostic waits have increased again. Therapy target breaches have risen again. Ambulance pressures remain acute, with the red call response target missed again. And Ministers remain far from achieving the target set out in their own planned care recovery plan, developed by the First Minister herself. These are not the indicators of a system that has turned the corner. They are the indicators of a system still failing too many people.

Education is little better. Ministers promised that standards would rise and inequalities would narrow, yet the central target—average capped 9 score in 2024-25—was 354.3, virtually unchanged from 354.4 in 2018-19. The attainment gap for poorer pupils has barely shifted: 78.6 points now against 77.3 before the pandemic. And beneath that sits a more troubling truth still: persistent absence remains far too high—27 per cent of all pupils, rising to over 50 per cent for those eligible for free school meals. No serious person can call this a term of clear educational improvement.

Housing tells the same story. The First Minister talked earlier today about ending homelessness, but, in December 2025, over 10,000 people were still living in temporary accommodation. Shelter Cymru's research suggests that one in 14 households is waiting for a social home, and, even in the private rented sector, rents rose by over 8 per cent over the last year. This is not a housing system being brought under control; it's a housing system under profound strain, in crisis, after a quarter of a century of a Labour Government.

Step back and ask the broader economic question: after five years, is Wales more prosperous, more productive, more economically secure? The Government's own well-being report was a masterpiece of understatement in this regard. Progress, it said, had been less marked on poverty, on productivity, on pay and income. The OECD told your Government in 2020 that it needed stronger strategic co-ordination for economic development, a unified strategy and a central agency. In 2024, it came back and said, in effect, the same thing. Two reports four years apart, the same critique. No wonder the Welsh economy feels stuck.

So, will the Government today acknowledge that there are areas where it has plainly fallen short? What is your own analysis of why? And if the Government's record is really as strong as you now claim, why is that not reflected in the opinion polls or in the Government's own national survey satisfaction score, of just 4.8 out of 10? We are told today that Ministers have strained every sinew. So, are your current problems really all Keir Starmer's fault, or is some of it—is some of it—the responsibility of a Government that has been in office for more than a generation and has lost its lustre and lost its way?

Well, I'm not quite sure what the actual question there was. It was an interesting speech. I thought it started well, but then it went back into your usual dismal outlook of talking everything down. [Interruption.] I'm not trying to patronise you any more than you were trying to patronise me; I have been patronised by much better people than you, Adam, over the years.

Let me read you a couple of facts that you need to be aware of. So, in housing, for example, you quoted some of the statistics there, and you and I have had this exchange, and we've had this exchange many times in this Chamber. We have a large amount of demand in the system. We have it in health as well. There is a large demand. And what this Government has been able to do is, despite the large demand and despite the headwinds against us, we have delivered on the promises we made, and that is what I'm saying here today.

Of course there is more to do. Of course there is. There is always more to do. No Government is ever going to arrive at a point where it says, 'Hey, we've done everything there is to do and there's nothing more.' Of course there's not ever going to be that point in time, because things change. The demand in our systems is extraordinary. The hard numbers in housing show that. The figures in temporary accommodation and the figures in bed and breakfast are about the same all the time, but they mask the change in those figures each month, as the entire system strains to get people in and out of those accommodations. So, they don't stay in bed and breakfast very long. They don't stay in temporary accommodation very long. Each month, 400 to 600 people move into permanent housing, but more come. And so what we need to get ahead of in the next Senedd is that demand curve, and there is much more to do on the demand curve. There is in housing. There is in health too. In health, the demand across this last year has been extraordinary. The system is working at full tilt, and we have delivered against that even so. But when you see the demand figures inside the system and you realise how hard the system is working in order to keep where it is, it's really quite astonishing what we've managed to deliver. And those falling waits are against that high demand, and they are falling despite the high demand, and that's what's important.

The other thing is, of course, that we understand that it's a full system, that, actually, having people in decent housing helps the health system. It helps the social care system. We've funded the thing across the piece so that we have people who are able to have a much better life because they're able to be helped in all of those areas of their life. And it's why things like better transport matter. The trains matter. We inherited a system, which I know you don't agree with, Adam, of the most ridiculous privatisation of mass transit that we've ever seen, which was uniformly unsuccessful across the UK. We inherited an old system with no investment, with terrible trains. We have held our nerve through some of the worst times I've ever had the misfortune to be in budgets with, and we have managed to invest in that system so that now, with the exception of the Caledonian Sleeper, we have the highest approval ratings of any train service in Britain. That's no small thing, and I'm extremely grateful to all of the people who have worked on that. But we held our nerve when that investment was very hard indeed to find. And I'm very proud of the fact that we've done that.

Is there more to do? Of course there's more to do. There's a whole metro system in the south-west that I would like to see developed. There's one in the north that we'd love to see developed. There's always more to do. But today is a chance for us to look at what we have achieved and to show people that these things can be achieved—they can be promised, and they can be delivered.

Alun Davies.

Acting Deputy Presiding Officer, I'm grateful to you, and I'm also grateful that this Welsh Government has sought to protect Wales and invest in Wales. We saw the disaster of Brexit. We saw the tragedy of COVID. And what I saw after that was investment in our people and in our communities: delivering connectivity in the Heads of the Valleys through the completion of the A465 Heads of the Valleys road; delivering connectivity throughout our Valleys with the south Wales metro; investing in new businesses—I know you don't like any of this—investing in new businesses, 50,000 new private sector jobs in five years; and 100,000 apprenticeships. All delivered through fair work and delivering on inward investment.

The Tories took lessons in the economy from Liz Truss, and it shows, whereas this Government has been investing in skills, infrastructure, people and places. What we need from the new Welsh Government is a continuation of this investment, a continuation of the investment in people and places, and a continuation of investing in the future.

Diolch, Alun. So, just in terms of the continued investment, that is a very important point indeed. If we look just at the social housing delivery, for example, I was very pleased to see the budget go through this year, because it did give the sector a lot of confidence that the investment would be there for them to continue. What we often see around the point of an election is a big dip in delivery and then it takes a while to ramp back up again, but we've been able to reassure the sector that the money is there for them to continue at the incredible pace of delivery that we've seen across Wales in the social housing sector.

And just to really emphasise the point that it is the social housing sector: these are not affordable homes at 80 per cent of market rent; these are homes for social rent in the social rented sector, with protected rents and protected tenancies, and they are built to the highest standard of carbon neutrality. They are very efficient homes—very efficient homes. I have met people who have been so delighted with the amount of money that they have saved just by moving into one of them. One of the best ones was actually in your constituency, where we went along to meet some of the tenants that had just moved in, and the gentleman whose house we were going to go in asked me to wait. I was a little bit surprised, but I went off and talked to a few other people, and then he came out and said, 'Come now, come now', and in we went, and he wanted me to sit at his kitchen table, because he wanted to show me the point in time at which his energy grid went from red to green and started to feed energy back into the grid and earn him money, and he wanted me to see the point where it swapped across, so delighted was he with the amount of money they were saving. He was very kind, he gave me a book that I had admired on his bookshelf, and he told me that his wife's health was significantly improved in the three months that they'd lived in that home. So, these are real people, and it makes a real difference to their actual daily lives that we build houses that give them a secure, safe and reliable home.

Can I congratulate the Minister for Delivery for her achievements in driving through these achievements by this Labour Government?

I wanted to draw attention to two areas where my constituency has particularly benefited from the actions of the Labour Government. Firstly, which has been mentioned, the electrification of the Valleys lines coming down through Cardiff North has taken place, involving a huge amount of work by Transport for Wales, but has now been successfully completed. The introduction of new trains, which have provided increased capacity, faster, more on-time services, as well as much more comfort and accessibility, including, very importantly, level boarding, which makes it so much easier for so many people to travel by train.

On the Coryton line, we've now got the introduction of services on a Sunday and a commitment to four trains an hour, which I know will make a huge difference and will make a big difference in the way that people use the railways. So, there's that huge step forward in transport in Cardiff North, and I'd like to ask the Minister what future plans there are to continue that future investment.

The other point I wanted to raise was the huge commitment to the health service in the building of the new hospital, the new Velindre hospital in Cardiff North, which will provide the most up-to-date radiotherapy treatment for cancer patients in the whole of Europe. This is a huge achievement, and I think the Welsh Government is to be congratulated on its commitment to that. Would she agree that this step forward for cancer patients, with a satellite building in Abergavenny, is the way that we need to go?

Yes. Diolch, Julie. Absolutely on the new hospital. It's been a long time coming, but it's been worth investing all of that money. I think it will absolutely transform the lives of people who are diagnosed with cancer. A diagnosis of cancer is a terrible shock, so making sure that you have the best possible treatment in the best possible surroundings, with the most up-to-date treatments possible, is absolutely essential, and that's what the new hospital and its ancillary buildings will deliver. They'll also deliver a really nice place to be, which really matters, actually, if you're in the middle of cancer treatment, because, quite often, you're hanging around waiting, and if you can do that somewhere that is actually beneficial to your health, it's really very important indeed. So, I'm delighted to see that coming to fruition.

In terms of the railways and the electrification, one of the things that I've always been most amazed by is how little we sing about some of the things we've really achieved. I've had the real privilege of travelling on one of the new electric trains very recently on the core Valleys lines, and I didn't realise until I was talking to the driver of that train that in Wales we have the first ever—and we developed it—the first ever train that can change modes at speed. All other trains that change mode have to slow down to stop, then change modes and then speed up again. But here in Wales, we've developed a train that can go from electric to battery to diesel to electric to battery at speed, as the line changes as we go along. In fact, I experienced exactly that as we went off the electricity network into a tunnel, and back on to the electricity network, exactly at speed. So, it's extraordinary and we should be very proud of the fact that this Welsh Labour Government invested so that we did get those kinds of trains.

So, not only do we have a much more reliable service—and as I said, second only to the Caledonian Sleeper, which is quite the achievement—more frequent, with rising numbers of passengers travelling, of course, but we also have much more frequency and we have connected communities. We have people who can come properly into Cardiff to work and go home again after experiencing the night-time economy, for example, something we've wanted to do for a long time. It's a very good foundation on which to build a mass transit system for the rest of Wales.

I can't help but say that we've finally managed to do something about the dreadful bus deregulation that happened all those years ago. The mantra 'It's cheaper and better in the private sector' has turned into the most appalling irony, I think. What we've managed to show is that it's actually cheaper and better in the public sector by re-regulating those buses, being able to direct our investment to the places where people most need it, and to develop the new 100 or so services that we require across Wales, to make sure that all of our communities become connected in the way they'd like.

I believe the last brick in the wall of the overheads electrification system happened at Cardiff Queen Street last weekend, and this electrification of over 100 miles of track and 280 miles of overhead working is in no small part down to the leadership of my colleague Lee Waters, who had the vision to go for this, and it has been brilliant. And it's been fantastic for Julie Morgan's constituency.

More important for my constituents is the progress that we hope to make on the east-west lines of the metro, as a result of the fantastic negotiations that the First Minister has made with that £14 billion commitment from the UK Government. So, my constituents are eager to find out when this is going to start happening. When is Network Rail starting to scope the work on upgrading these east-west lines? When will Network Rail submit the planning application to Cardiff Council to accommodate the construction works? And when will spades be in the ground on this long overdue upgrade, which is essential to get commuters out of their cars and onto the trains? So, I wondered if it's possible to tell us whether the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales or yourself can give us that detailed timeline of when we can expect these to be happening, so we can maintain the pressure on them.

Thank you, Jenny. I'd also like to pay tribute to Lee. It's very much a shared pleasure, I think, Lee, that we lived through the need to find the investment to transform the railways, and it's in no small part due to your vision and working with Transport for Wales that we managed to do it. I think you and I will probably fondly—is that the right word—remember the budget meetings that went on for hours and hours and hours as we tried to find the investment, wrest it out of the then Cabinet Secretary for finance, my dear friend Rebecca Evans, with whom I had long, involved and difficult conversations. And then the First Minister at the time, Mark Drakeford, will tell you that I pursued him fiercely up corridors and down dales, looking for additional investment to sustain the railway.

Because what we had when we were in that portfolio was what we called peak investment for lower service, and so it was holding your nerve to understand that you needed to upfront invest in those railways with money that goodness knows we needed across the Government elsewhere, but we knew that if we didn't hold our nerve and invest in that railway service, what we would end up with was subsidising a service that was just no good, was not modern or transformative. What we did because we held our nerve right across the Government, with all Cabinet colleagues being aware of the necessity for this investment, what we did was we transformed that rail service into something modern that we are proud of, that has increasing numbers of passengers on it, and which will go from strength to strength and will give us the model, Jenny, for the next stages.

So, for the next stage we've got the rail funding and pipeline ambition for the next 15 to 20 years set out. The initial focus on the schemes that have received the £445 million funding do include delivering the seven new stations that you're talking about. I don't have the level of detail you've just asked for, but I can easily find it for you. Of course we want that to go ahead, and what we want is a Government committed to that kind of public infrastructure, that will allow us to continue to invest in our public infrastructure across the piece. Of course, if we were unfortunate enough to get a Government that did not believe in public services, all of this would be for nothing, because it would be run down again, as it was under the Conservative Government at UK level. 

When it comes to health and a sustainable health service, we must continue the move to a more preventative approach, I think, across Welsh Government, public services and society in general. This coming Thursday is National Social Prescribing Day, one form of which is through parkrun, and I was very privileged just today in the Senedd to host Parkrun UK for a celebration of parkrun in Wales. We heard how every £1 invested in parkrun generates £16.70 in social return on investment, including £10 in terms of healthcare benefits, and 66 per cent of parkrunners with a long-term health condition said it helps to manage their symptoms.

We've reached a stage in Wales now where we have 120 GP surgeries working in partnership with parkrun, and I very much believe that Wales is leading the way on this work. There are now partnerships being formed at the health board level, and that will strengthen and deepen, I think, these connections. So, Counsel General, would you congratulate the work of parkrun across the UK and here in Wales, doing so much good work to make this crucial move to a more preventative approach to health and social care in Wales?

Absolutely, John, and I briefly attended the parkrun event earlier today. One of the things I love about parkrun is how inclusive it is. So, I suffer from very bad arthritis, and so I can't run like that, but actually they're very happy for you to walk the route with people who will walk with you. So, not only is it a healthy thing, it's a social thing as well, and you can see people being helped by both of those things. And of course, it's preventative—you don't have to be a marathon runner in order to take part. It's really lovely to see, and you can make excellent new friends as well as you walk along. So, I absolutely couldn't agree more, and making sure that we have those kinds of social prescribing models, where people are encouraged to take part in something that's both social and good for them, really, really gives benefits.

And what it also does is it gives people purpose. We were talking earlier on in the week about how you get people who are a little bit isolated at home to join in, and what you do is you make them useful. You ask them if they could give somebody a call, or if they could walk alongside somebody, or indeed run, if they can, alongside somebody in a parkrun. It gives them purpose, it gets them out, it gives them new friends. So, it's good on every single level. Although I was only there very briefly, I thought the event today was excellent.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. I am proud, I am unapologetically proud of what this Government has done to build a fairer Wales for all, because this programme for government was not a list of ambitions. It was a contract with the people of Wales, and today we account for how we delivered it. Two hundred and eighty-four commitments, the vast, vast majority done. Not just announced, not consulted on; done.

And before I go further, I want to thank Mark Drakeford. His leadership has laid the foundations for everything we've built over this term: a stronger, greener, fairer Wales. This is a man who has had to shape this entire institution right from the beginning. He was there, working with Rhodri Morgan, right from the beginning, making this whole institution a place that was accepted by the Welsh public. Mark, thank you so much for everything you have done not just for the people of your constituency, not just for the people in our party, but more than anything for what you did in particular during your leadership in the pandemic. That was something that I think the people of Wales appreciated. I am absolutely delighted that you agreed to come back into Government under my leadership.

I'm proud to carry forward that flame that was lit by Rhodri, by Mark and by others who came before. And I stand here, the first woman to hold this office, knowing this. 

We've already heard from the Minister for Delivery about the progress made against those four priorities: more homes, better transport, more jobs, better health. What I want to do today is to step back and account for the programme for government as a whole—what this Welsh Labour Government promised, and what we delivered. When we set out this programme for government, you've got to remember, it was in the face of that pandemic. We had a Brexit crisis, and now we've had a cost-of-living crisis, a decade of austerity behind us—instability that hit families and public services alike. That test was not whether our ambitions sounded good on paper; the test was whether we could honour that contract in the real world despite those massive barriers. And do you know what? We did. We did not lower our sights. We did not hold back on our ambition. We delivered.

Seven billion pounds of support for people under pressure. That's not a number, that's the heating staying on, that's food on the table, that's a bit of breathing space when it mattered most. Free school meals for every primary school child, with 65 million additional meals served; council tax support for hundreds of thousands of households, with most paying nothing at all; £71 million of debt written off; the £1 bus fare for young people, introduced just a year ago—3.5 million journeys on that, opening up access to work, to college, to opportunity. Prescriptions remain free—they don't have that in England. For everyone in Wales, they benefit. That is what fairness you can feel looks like in practice. 

We know waiting times have been long—too long—but we didn't stand still. We acted, and now we're seeing the results, with the largest and most sustained fall in waiting lists on record. The average wait is down from 22 weeks to 18. Two-year waits have been cut by over 90 per cent. Over 10,000 more staff are in the NHS. Hundreds of thousands of people are treated closer to home through pharmacies, optometrists and community services. Over 500,000 new NHS dental appointments. Women's health hubs in every health board. There's 24/7 mental health support through the '111 press 2' service. That is what delivering a programme for government means. It's not perfect, but it's real, it's measurable progress in people’s lives.

If you want to see what fairness looks like, just look at our schools: a new curriculum for a new century, results are rising, more than 2,400 additional staff in classrooms, 60 new schools across the whole of Wales. It's transformational and very different from what you saw happening in England during the same time. There's been support for 90,000 families with the cost of uniforms, education maintenance allowance has gone up to £40 a week, the highest anywhere in the UK, again. That's not something you get in England—don't tell Keir. And there's been reform of additional learning needs, backed by investment, so every child gets the support they deserve.

We were told that Wales couldn't compete. Well, we proved them wrong on that: £16 billion of investment secured in the run-up to Wales's international investment summit; 50,000 jobs supported in the private sector; 100,000 apprenticeships created. An economy growing in the industries of the future, from renewables to advanced manufacturing, to AI, because economic growth only matters if it reaches people and our communities. This programme for government made sure that it did. We said that we would connect Wales, and we have, with major investment in Wales, as you've just heard from the delivery Secretary: electrifying the core Valleys lines, new trains, more services, fares kept fair, buses brought back under public control. Because transport is not a technical issue, it's a question of whether people can get to work or college, or to opportunity. 

We said we would deliver more social homes for rent, and we have, at the highest sustained level for two decades. Over £2 billion invested. Thousands of families now have the stability of a home, because a fair Wales is one where everyone has somewhere safe to call home. We said that we would protect our environment, and we have. We're second in the world for recycling, we have a national forest growing across Wales, tens of thousands of homes are protected from flooding, and there's been world‑leading action on coal tip safety, backed by significant investment and a new authority to keep communities safe. 

This programme for government wasn't just about spending, it was about change, with 27 pieces of legislation made in Wales, for Wales. We removed profit from the care of looked‑after children. We transformed homelessness support. We brought buses back under public control. We strengthened coal tip safety. We protected our environment. We reformed this Senedd itself. That is what this programme for government delivered—not management, but change. 

Political choices made here, for the people of Wales, because devolution is how we turn our values into action. It is how we protect people. It's how we build fairness. And yes, of course, there's always more to do, more powers to secure, a stronger settlement to achieve. But let me say this clearly: the problem has never been too much Welsh democracy, the problem has been the limits placed on it.

So, there is a choice at the next election: a programme for government delivered, or promises without proof. Because this election is not just about who governs, it's about what kind of country we are. Plaid Cymru: ambition without arithmetic. Reform: slogans without substance. Neither has shown they understand the discipline of governing, the importance of making choices.

I think the fact that we have nobody from Reform here is the shape of things to come. Mark my words. We've seen it here before. Seven people from Nigel Farage's party were elected here before. Six of them had left the party by the end of the Senedd term. It will happen again under Reform. You may feel frustrated, people of Wales, but let me tell you, they will not deliver for you. They're not here today, and they will not be here tomorrow if you vote for them.

Wales needs stability. Wales needs experience. Wales needs a Government that delivers. And you know what? We're not finished. We've set out what comes next: further action on the cost of living, an energy-independent Wales, a new deal for the NHS, protecting our environment and building an even fairer future. Not a wish list, but a plan grounded in delivery.

I became the First Minister as the first woman to hold this office, and I'll never forget what that means. Every decision we made was about people—all the people, people who needed Government to work, people who needed it to care, people who needed it to deliver. Welsh Labour made a programme for government promise, and we have kept it. So, the question now is simple: who do you trust to build a fairer Wales for all?

Wales deserves the best. We hope that the people of Wales will look at our record and vote to return a Welsh Labour Government to run this country again. Diolch.

Thank you for your statement, First Minister, on your achievements. I actually can't believe that you've had the audacity to stand here before us all today, patting yourself on the back for the past five years, because actually your record has been abysmal.

Let's take a look at the national health service. People are dying waiting for ambulances in Wales. They're dying in our emergency departments because they're not getting treated quickly enough. Just today, the Royal College of Emergency Medicine has estimated that over the past year, in 2025, 1,000 people died needlessly in our emergency departments because they waited over 12 hours in those departments to be seen.

We've got a shortage of pillows and blankets in our hospitals in north Wales. And you talk about the fact that you've managed to get the two-year waiting time lists down. And, absolutely, I thank God that they're coming down. But you're still hundreds of times more likely here in Wales to be waiting two years plus for an operation than you are over the border in England.

Cancer targets have been missed, and people are needlessly coming to harm. This is one of your achievements: we've got a record-breaking health board in north Wales that's been in special measures and intervention for longer than any other NHS organisation in the history of the national health service across the United Kingdom.

You've been closing beds and cutting services in hospitals across the country—in Tywyn, in Withybush, in Bronglais. Powys patients are treated like second-class citizens when they go to get their treatment over the border at hospitals in England. That is your record on the NHS.

And your failures don't just end there, do they? Because on education, you've let down a whole generation of young people with the worst education system in the United Kingdom. The Institute for Fiscal Studies said that you're spending more on education in Wales than over the border in England, but getting worse results. And that tells me that it's down to the policies of this Welsh Labour Government—that's what's caused the failure. We've got the worst Programme for International Student Assessment scores in the international league tables in the United Kingdom—the only country in the UK in the bottom half of the international league tables. Absenteeism is persistent, violence in schools is at record levels, we've got a teacher recruitment crisis and the lowest number of young people having a university education in the United Kingdom.

And then there's our economy, too, because you're failing on that also—the lowest wages in Great Britain, and people here are less likely to be in work than in other parts of the UK, too. And not only that, but our businesses are contending with the worst business rates regime—the highest business rates in Britain, and therefore, as a result, we've got the highest high-street vacancy rate in our town centres.

People are paying more in council tax, too—more in council tax as a proportion of their income than in other parts of the country, especially over the border in England. And you like to claim credit for what you say and suggest is a wonderful transport system here in Wales, yet you fail to invest in our roads. You've not delivered the improvements on the M4, the A55 and the A40 that people want. You spent tens of millions on active travel while other roads are crumbling and full of potholes. You've sunk £100 million into a loss‑making airport down the road in Cardiff, and you shout about bus fares. Well, it's all very well to have a cheap bus fare if you've got a bus that comes to your door, and, unfortunately, the reality is that we've seen bus routes scrapped and cancelled across Wales. And, of course, you've strangled our economy with a 20 mph default speed limit, which is costing our country billions of pounds.

And then, on the environment—a national forest of Wales you claimed credit for there, yet you've planted more trees in Uganda than you have here in Wales. And you want to plaster our countryside with wind turbines, pylons and solar panels.

Now, shall I tell you what is missing? [Interruption.] Shall I tell you what is missing from your statement? You paid a glowing tribute—[Interruption.] You paid a glowing tribute to Mark Drakeford as a former First Minister. But you didn't mention your immediate predecessor, did you—Vaughan Gething? You tried to airbrush him out of Welsh history—that's what you've tried to do. And can I invite you to actually make a reference to him in your response to me?

Nor did you mention rural Wales. Not once did you mention our farmers, not once did you mention agriculture, not once did you mention those 80 per cent of people across Wales who live in a rural part of the country. And it's hardly surprising, because we know we've got an unsustainable farming scheme, a family farms tax that is crippling our farms, water regulations that don't work, farming by calendar when it's unnecessary, and you fail to get to grips with bovine TB.

So, instead of patting yourself on the back, can I ask you this question: will you apologise to the people of Wales and accept accountability for the failures that I've just listed?

Well, that's pretty miserable, the way that you look at the world, I must say. 

It's honest. 

But listen, let me be—[Interruption.] Look, we totally recognise that there's more to do. We absolutely recognise there's more to do. We recognise that there are people in this country who are struggling, which is why we're making clear commitments to the public when it comes to this next election. We're saying to them, ‘Do you know what? We will cap your bus fares at £2. We will help you with childcare. We will make sure that you have more support to heat your homes.’ And let's be clear: you talk about the NHS. It is improving—there is no question. Is there a long way to go? Yes. There's more work to do, without question. But, my god, we're going in the right direction. Why couldn't we do it before? Because your Government didn't give us the money. They didn't give us the money.

And, yes, I was up in north Wales last week. And do you know what? Things are improving—even in north Wales, things are improving. And you know what? If you look at the commitment to the Royal Alex, that's going to make a difference. If you look at the promise we have made, if we get into power next time, we will be building a new hospital in Wrexham. And let's be clear about those waiting times: eight months of sustained fall. That makes a huge difference to the people who are suffering. We've delivered 20,000 additional cataract operations—40,000 this year. We've delivered women's health hubs across the whole of Wales. And do you know what? We have massively increased the NHS workforce—a 12 per cent increase—with medical and dental staff increased by 18 per cent. That's not a small number. So, rather than talk down the NHS constantly, why don't we praise the incredible efforts that are being made? Why don't we talk about the shift that has gone from hospitals into communities, into our pharmacies—massive amounts of support—460,000 people supported through our pharmacies alone? All of this is testament to the work that is being done by people like Jeremy Miles as health Minister.

But let me talk also about mental health. There's been a turnaround in mental health. It was a huge problem during the pandemic—massive issues. I remember Lynne Neagle giving me a really tough time when I was mental health Minister about what were we going to do about it. We've turned it around: 95 per cent of under 18s are assessed within 28 days. It was bad. It's improved hugely. And once again, if we get into power after May, people will get even quicker same-day access. That is what our promise is to the people of Wales.

And we talk about education. We had to make sure that—. After the pandemic, children were suffering. They needed support. So, what have we done? Mental health support in every secondary school. And we are confident. We've seen improvements when it comes to GCSEs. We were already doing okay when it came to A-levels. And we are very confident that next time the PISA results come out they will be better. That was five years ago. That's a long time ago.

When we talk about business, let me be clear: I am very confident and clear-minded that what we need to do is to build a strong economy in Wales. And I want to do that because I want to fight poverty, and the best way to fight poverty is to give people a job, make sure they're equipped for the job, make sure that there's a lifelong retraining guarantee. That's what we'll offer, because the world of work is changing, and we need to change with that world of work. And that's why we've made sure also that we demonstrate we're serious when it comes to things like renewable energy, making sure that the planning system has been reformed. There's a lot more money going into it. We had the international investment summit; £16 billion of investment landed to make a difference to people.

You know, council tax in Wales—. You might not have had a look, but it's much lower than it is in England. And if you look at the roads—. Look at the roads. Why don't we talk about the Heads of the Valleys road? How about talking about that one? How about talking about how that is transforming the lives and opportunities of people there? And that's before we start on trains, but we talk so much about trains.

And we are giving more money than ever to farmers: £360 million a year. So, don't talk to me about our lack of concern for the rural economy. And let me be clear: the rural economy is much more than just agriculture.

For 27 years, this Labour Government has asked the people of Wales to judge them on their actions, and on that basis, the verdict is clear. Wales has been held back by a lack of urgency, a lack of vision and a lack of confidence in our own potential.

Let's start with the NHS: a waiting list backlog that still has 100,000 more people on it than at the last election, despite £1.5 billion having been spent to tackle waiting lists since 2021. Target after target on cancer treatment, on diagnostics, and on therapies missed with such regularity as to become meaningless, essentially. All seven health boards in some form of targeted intervention, with Betsi Cadwaladr now holding the ignominious record of having been in special measures for the longest period of time in the history of the NHS. Plaid Cymru has consistently argued for a long-term workforce plan, for investment in community care, for prevention, rather than perpetual firefighting. Yet this Government has too often chosen short-term fixes over structural reform.

On the economy, there is hollow talk of resilience, but resilience is what our communities have shown in spite of Government policy, not because of it. Wales continues to have some of the lowest wages and highest levels of economic inactivity in the UK, and a third of our children, as we have to remind ourselves, time and time again, live in poverty. Goalposts moved, targets missed, targets dropped, but the people of Wales are tired, frankly, of being taken for fools.

Plaid Cymru believes Wales should be a nation that creates wealth, not just manages decline, and that's why, in Government, we would establish a new national development agency to create jobs, support Welsh businesses and attract new investment and reform of the business rates regime to help support those small and medium-sized enterprises that are the backbone of the Welsh economy.

And then there's the question of trust. The First Minister has spoken of transparency, yet the last five years have been marred by internal turmoil. A First Ministerial scandal glossed over, I note, in the roll-call of previous FMs. Perhaps the current First Minister thought we wouldn't notice. And a so-called 'partnership in power' between the Welsh and UK Labour Governments, which rings more hollow by the week. The people of Wales expect better from those who govern in their name.

But, Llywydd, this response can't simply be about pointing out a failure. It has to be about offering hope, too, because Wales isn't short of talent, or creativity, or community spirit. What we lack is Government that is willing to harness those strengths.

The sixth Senedd has shown us the limits of a Government content with managing the status quo. The party of devolution, as Labour calls themselves, is the party of settling for the kind of failing devolution that we have, instead of a Government that's really willing to push the boundaries of what we can achieve. The next chapter must be about transformation, it must be about confidence and it must be about putting the interests of Wales before loyalty to the London master.

However well intentioned, the last five years have not been fairer for all, as the statement would lead us to believe. Indeed, that very notion was tested in a by-election, wasn't it? Caerphilly isn't a footnote from the sixth Senedd, but rather a foregrounding of the battle playing out as we look ahead to the seventh. Division and delusion with Reform, or credibility, compassion and confidence with Plaid Cymru. That is the stark choice that faces Wales in the election. So, to the First Minister, I say this: Labour's record is not the record that Wales deserves. And to the people of Wales, I say: there is a better future within our reach if we choose it.

Well, what we've seen is you want 100 days to have a little think. We've been here before—a little think. Because you haven't had enough time to be thinking. That's the point of opposition. You develop your ideas, you don't wait until you get into Government. Because the point of a manifesto, the point of going out to the public before—. The fact that you can hold us to account today is because we had a manifesto and we said what we were going to do. We didn't say, 'We'll have a think for the first 100 days and then we'll let you know. And by the way, we won't cost it, we won't have a timetable, we won't tell you how we're going to deliver it. And I tell you what, most of all, we won't be telling you what we're going to cut to make it happen.'

What people need to realise, I think, is that we have stood by the people of this country. We have stood by the people, the 100,000 people who have benefited from starting those apprenticeship courses. Youth unemployment guarantees: 65,000 people benefited from that. We've had the biggest uplift in the history of devolution. You might not like it, you might not like the fact that, actually, it is beneficial to have a UK Labour Government in Westminster. We have seen more money coming our way.

How about just looking at your own constituency of Wylfa? Let's just think about how many jobs will be created in your own constituency as a result of the Wylfa investment, and not just Wylfa, but the AI growth zone—3,000 jobs just there, and you can't bring yourself to welcome it. And that is a real problem. It's a real problem. Because people don't want to see you talking down our country. They don't want to see you not welcoming the free port that exists in your own constituency. They recognise the support that's been given to the south Wales Valleys to clear those coal tips. And, yes, we were annoyed, we were upset, because we didn't get the money that we should have had as a result of years of underinvestment in our rail networks. And now, we've got a commitment: £14 billion of a commitment, and you can't bring yourself to welcome that either. And do you know what, you talk about—[Interruption.] You talk about growing the economy, yes, you talk about exploiting our natural resources for the benefit of Wales, but you're blocking the infrastructure that would make that happen.

The fact is that we are the party of devolution. Do you know what it says on my Labour membership card? It says, 'Country first'. My country is Wales. Keir Starmer knows that. Keir Starmer understands that. And the people of Wales need to understand that as well.

Seeing as this is the day for thank-yous, I wanted to start my contribution this afternoon by thanking you, First Minister, for your leadership and for all that you've done and will continue to do.

Five years ago, I stood outside Theatr Clwyd with the then First Minister Mark Drakeford, as we unveiled our major Welsh Labour manifesto pledge to redevelop the theatre. Today, the theatre on the hill on the edge of my hometown has been transformed for generations to come, thanks in no small part to £26 million of funding from a Welsh Labour Government. Like many in my area, I grew up with the theatre and that I was able to see literature brought to life led me to study English literature at university. I'm really proud to see this investment that I played just a small part in securing already making a difference and being recognised by many, including Plaid Cymru, who I believe will launch their manifesto in a location that's the physical manifestation of a Welsh Labour manifesto promise delivered in a Senedd term. [Interruption.] Croeso. Felly—[Interruption.] Felly—[Interruption.] Felly, First Minister—[Interruption.] Felly, First Minister, do you agree that it's clear that only a Welsh Labour Government will continue to deliver for communities like mine? Diolch.

Diolch, Hannah, and it's lovely that we're both wearing pink today to celebrate the fact that we are here preparing to get out there and to make sure that we convince the people of Wales that we are ready to govern once again after May.

Hannah, I remember when Theatr Clwyd was proposed. It's been there for years, but my god did it need an uplift. And that's what's happened. A huge—a huge—investment: £25 million-worth of investment, transforming what was a pretty run-down theatre into something that is world leading—a fantastic facility for the people of Wales. And it's not just a building. It's an opportunity, it's a culture and it's an inspiration for young people growing up in a community like yours. And you're absolutely right to say this. This may be chosen by some as a backdrop. But, for us, it was a promise, a promise to the people of north Wales. We chose to deliver it. Because only a Welsh Government, a Labour Government, has shown time and time again we don't just make promises—we keep them.

First Minister, a few months ago you were asked in a committee to rate your Government's performance out of 10. You declined, saying it was for others to judge. Well, we have judged, and, based on the enormous waiting lists in ophthalmology, cancer and mental health, your Government deserves a pretty poor score.

So, what has changed eight months on? Nothing, despite Welsh Government's claims that waiting lists are coming down—but look at the number they were starting at. And that's not the whole picture. The Government's narrative that the longest waiting lists are falling, so waiting lists are improving, does not stand up to scrutiny, with waiting lists for ophthalmology increasing and nearly half of cancer patients facing delayed treatment.

Welsh Labour have repeatedly failed to deliver on the targets they set themselves. Eliminating two-year waits by March 2023—missed. Eliminating one-year waits by the end of 2022—missed. Their 62-day cancer target—never met; indeed, getting worse. Just look at gynaecological cancer, which, by the way, isn't even mentioned in your women's health plan. First Minister, do you accept that, despite your claims of success and spin, your Government has repeatedly fallen short and that, too often, your Government has failed Wales?

No, I don't accept that for a second. I think in the face of the austerity that your party left us with, we've done extremely well under the circumstances. Is there more to do? Of course there's more to do. But I think we recognise that there was massive pressure as a result of the pandemic. And yes, we took more time than we'd hoped to get those waiting lists down, but that was because we didn't have the money. And we didn't have the money because your Government starved us of that money. Now we have invested and you can see the difference. You can see the difference, but, more than that, people can feel the difference.

On Saturday, I was out in Tenby. I met somebody who'd voted Plaid in the by-election in Caerphilly. And he told me he voted Plaid, but, now he's had his cataract operation, he can see the difference. It makes a difference. And he has now—. He can see the difference. [Laughter.] There we go. That was good. [Laughter.] He's now seen the light once again, and he will now be switching his vote back to Labour. That is what we will see in the forthcoming election.

Let me just be clear: when it comes to Labour's offer for the future, we will offer a new deal for the NHS, £4 billion to build new hospitals, same-day mental health support and a focus on women's health. That is what we offer to the public in the next election. And when we say we're going to do something, we do.

Alun Davies.

I'm grateful to you, Presiding Officer. It was good to welcome you again to Blaenau Gwent yesterday, First Minister. You will have seen the impact of Welsh Government investment in my constituency: delivering the A465 dualling project, which has always been opposed by the Tories, of course; delivering the south Wales metro, new trains, new services, faster, cleaner, better than ever; new services between Ebbw Vale and Newport; and delivering the 20 mph speed limit, which has saved lives, not only in Blaenau Gwent, but across Wales—fewer accidents, safer communities and still they oppose it.

For the future, First Minister, I want to see the Abertillery spur built. I want to see new trains again on the Ebbw Vale line, new bus routes, new bus services, publicly owned and controlled bus services for the first time in Wales. We want to see more investment to connect Rhymney, Blaenau Gwent and Caerphilly, connecting our communities, our families, with jobs, with services, with education and everywhere else. And that is the difference that my constituents have seen as a consequence of investment by this Labour Government. And the one thing that unites all of this different investment is that it was delayed by Plaid, opposed by the Tories, and Reform can't even be bothered to turn up to debate it. Thank you very much.

Diolch, Alun. Thank you for your passion and commitment to the community that you represent. You’ve always spoken up for the people of the Valleys, and we’re pleased now that we’ve delivered for them—that £2 billion Heads of the Valleys road is already transforming people’s lives, but, more importantly, the economy in that area. You get the economy right and people's lives change. It was great to be with you yesterday in one of the huge new factories at the Heads of the Valleys. They're there—they told us they're there—because that road has helped them to be there.

And it's not just that. You talk about also the metro. That is a 15-year programme. A 15-year programme. That is the benefit you get from consistency in Government. You make the commitment, you stay the course and you deliver. This is not something you can switch on and off, and that's the danger of going to another party in this election, the on and off—the momentum that we've got now could be stopped. But thank you, Alun, for all you've done to speak up for the people of your constituency.

You talked in your speech about fairness, but it's not fair if you're a child growing up in poverty. We still have 30 per cent of children here in Wales living in poverty. Since 2018, Scotland has cut relative child poverty by 12 per cent, while in Wales it has risen by 15 per cent. This isn't progress. It is unfairness and failure: failure for our children growing up without the opportunities they deserve; failure for our children's future— poverty shaping their health, education and life chances—failure for our children's economic prospects—talent constrained, potential lost and our economy weakened.

Twenty-seven years ago, children were growing up in poverty in Wales, and they are now adults, their lives blighted and affected by their experience. First Minister, what would you do, looking back, to absolutely make sure that we don't allow children to grow up in child poverty anymore? Because one of the things that we want is free childcare, and that has been shown to be the lever that gets children out of poverty. So, please, can you reflect on the fact that Labour have actually put more children in poverty, and this needs to be changed? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

For years we've had to suffer under austerity, but I'm very clear that I want to see the economy of Wales grow and transformed. And that's how you get children out of poverty: you make sure that people have got jobs; you prepare them for jobs. And yes, I want to see more childcare support, which is why, in our commitments to the public of Wales in future, there will be more support for childcare. But we have stepped in. We've stepped in with £7 billion of support over the past few years: support for children, for breakfast in schools—21 years of providing free breakfasts for children—and now lunch for primary schools. School uniforms: the horror, the terror that families feel, poor families, when their children grow, because they can't afford a school uniform—we've taken that terror away because we step in and we support them.

Is there more to do? Of course there's more to do. That is why many of us came into this Chamber in the first place: to tackle poverty, to give everybody the life chances to make the most of themselves. And that is what I promise that, under my leadership, if we're back here in May, we will focus our attention on, by growing the economy, making sure we give people those opportunities to pull themselves and their children out of poverty.

In seeking a Wales fairer for all, I very much welcome the commitment and work of Welsh Government, and in particular Jane Hutt as the Minister for social justice, in working with our communities for social cohesion and to combat those, who seem to be growing in number, seeking division and conflict, including political parties, of course. One example of the progress that has been made—an important example, I think—is our ‘Anti-racist Wales Action Plan’, which seeks a cultural shift in Wales so that everyone is treated with dignity, differences are respected and there is anti-racist education, workforce diversity and cultural change across our public services.

And when we talk about differences being respected, I reflect on the work of the Local Government and Housing Committee, which I chair, on the Gypsy Traveller community. I very much value—and the committee very much values—our engagement with Jane Hutt, as the relevant Minister, in seeking badly needed progress so that this particular group in our community are no longer facing discrimination and prejudice, as they have, unfortunately, for many years. So, would you agree with me, First Minister, that that 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' is a very important aspect of ensuring that no-one is left behind or neglected in our Wales of today?

Thanks very much, John, and thank you for your leadership on this issue as well. I also want to thank Jane Hutt for her leadership on this issue. This has been absolutely central to her social justice work and making sure that every person in this country is able to make the most of themselves and that they don't suffer discrimination.

I also want to pay tribute to Julie Morgan, who has done so much for so many years in this place for people who have suffered, in particular the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller community. Thank you for all your work. It's been an incredibly journey for you, not just here, but also in Westminster before that. Your commitment and your dedication to fighting for the poor on all occasions has been something that has inspired us all. Diolch yn fawr iawn, Julie. 

Thank you also to everybody who is on the same page as us when it comes to delivering that 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'. 

Prif Weinidog, I want to concentrate on the justice system, because I think there's more the Welsh Government could do. The Dispute Resolution Centre Wales was established back in 2023. Three years later, the centre still hasn't got full-time or even part-time staff. The Legal Innovation Lab Wales, which was established in 2019 after receiving £4.95 million, has had no follow-up funding and ended in the summer of 2023. Families are still being kept apart because there's been no funding for the family drug and alcohol courts in Wales. The pilot was stopped, whilst in England, the courts are funded, expanded, and families are being kept together. Welsh Government is compounding legal deserts by not funding level 7 apprenticeships, and we are still waiting for a spade to be put in the ground for the women's residential centre in Swansea—a centre that was due to be opened in 2024 and a centre that was recommended back in 2019.

You called Plaid the party of reviews, but your record in justice is a series of reviews, Prif Weinidog. Decisions need to be done quicker. When it comes to justice, I hope whoever picks up the mantle after 7 May is bolder and braver to change the lives of people who often feel ignored and forgotten. Diolch.

Thanks very much. Many of those are obviously responsibilities of the UK Government, and obviously we'll continue our dialogue on that. There will be an update on the situation in relation to justice later this week. 

First Minister, 10 years ago, you and I both campaigned together in Llanelli, and we heard the frustrations of people about the state of school buildings. In that decade, 15 schools in the Llanelli constituency have had significant major upgrades at a time when in England that investment was not being made. Brand-new schools in Burry Port, in Pembrey, in Five Roads, in Kidwelly, in Llanelli Seaside, and a new Ysgol Gymraeg Ffwrnes, were all made possible because of political decisions and priorities made by this Welsh Labour Government. We know people are frustrated, and we are all frustrated, because we're never satisfied. We always want to do more, but we should recognise what has been achieved.

A decade ago, Transport for Wales was simply a concept. Ten years on, we have built it into a capable delivery organisation, delivering a £1 billion metro, an £800 million investment, so that there are brand-new trains all across Wales. That's not an accident. That's continued commitment by First Ministers and transport Ministers over a decade to put money into that and not into something else. And the benefit of that will be felt for decades.

A decade ago when I was elected, at every public meeting I held, the first concern that was raised with me was the state of road safety in the constituency and the blight of speeding cars. We have changed the default speed limit right across Wales and there's been a 25 per cent drop in the number of casualties. That's families saved from grief. That's children given a future. And parties in this Chamber have got short memories of having supported it in principle, but as soon as it became difficult, ran for the hills. We didn't do that. We backed it. We have saved lives. We've improved communities. That's political choice. That's political leadership. And would the First Minister commend to all parties in this Chamber that talk is cheap, but Government is hard and delivery requires patience and persistence?

And thank you, also, for what you did in your role as transport Minister at a crucial time, because they were crucial times when those investment decisions were critical. What we see today is thanks to what we saw in those days. So, thank you for your leadership on that. And thank you, also, to Ken Skates for continuing that vision and delivering on that vision, and then continuing to make sure that we get that additional investment from the UK Labour Government.

You're quite right. The schools in Llanelli, I've been to many of them, and they are quite remarkable. What a transformation for those children there. And we do have challenges when it comes to attendance in school, and they're far more likely to attend a school if it is a good and welcoming environment, and it does make a difference to the life chances of those children. So, yes, we should remind people of the fact that we have delivered what we said we would.

And, Lee, it was a rocky time, the introduction of 20 mph. Let's be honest, that has not been easy, and you took the brunt of a lot of that. But you're right, it's working. We've had fewer collisions. We've had fewer families facing tragedy. We've seen lower insurance bills. And these aren't easy choices, but they've been choices that people in many, many constituencies have now appreciated. And Welsh Labour will always put people's safety and future first.

Can I just also say how grateful I am? In terms of driving through the delivery, I'll put on record my thanks to Julie James, who has been remarkable in her pursuit of ensuring that we deliver on that programme for government. We said that we would make delivery our focal point, certainly over the course of this Parliament, and it has not been easy. It has not been easy. But with Julie James there, leading the way, badgering people, asking for data, making sure that people deliver, really getting under the skin of why things weren't moving, thank you, Julie, for all you've done, not just as delivery Minister, but also for all you've done in all the various roles you've held in this place. There is nobody quite like you that I've ever met before. I am very, very grateful to you for all you've done, not just for me as First Minister, not just for us in the Labour group, but also for the nation. The people of Wales will never know how you've delivered for them, but we will.

Thank you for your statement, First Minister, which you titled, 'A fairer Wales for all'. Is it fair for Powys patients to wait longer than English patients, even when being treated in the same hospital by the same clinicians? Is it fair for my constituents to sit in front of a consultant and be told, 'You'll have to wait longer for treatment and go to the back of the queue, because you live in Powys'? Powys health board said that they implemented their delayed treatment policy because they had to live within the financial expectations set by the Welsh Government. If you agree with me that this is unfair—[Interruption.] I'm sorry, I can't hear what the health Minister is saying. He's talking nonsense, probably. 

Can you address your questions to the First Minister, please?

Thank you, Llywydd. First Minister, if you agree with me that it is unfair, can you explain to me and my constituents, and your constituents, why your Government has done absolutely nothing about it?

Well, Powys health board has had more money than it's ever had before, and that is the truth. That is the truth. And, yes, demand on the service is immense. They're employing more people than they've ever employed before, and that is making a difference to the people of Powys. We've seen a shift into community care, so that people can get that support closer to home. So, people are seeing a difference in Powys. The pressure is enormous. People are working incredibly hard to bring those waiting lists down. As you know, when it comes to being treated, there is no district general hospital in Powys, and therefore they have to go outside of the area, and, of course, it's appropriate to make sure that they get fair treatment as well.

First Minister, sometimes it's quite difficult to explain 20 mph. I drive home every evening through Coed-Ely, and I stick rigidly to the 20 mph. A few months back, as I was driving through, someone stepped out from behind a car. I put the brakes on, and nothing happened because I was doing 20 mph. If I'd been travelling at 30 mph, I'm pretty certain I would have hit that person. That is the explanation I give when people talk about 20 mph in terms of the reality of it. That person could have been a member of anybody's family.

But what I wanted to do was to follow on from a question, really, on the theme that Lee started, because when I was elected as a Senedd Member 15 years ago, I would look through and I would wander through some of the schools, the terrapins, the old buildings, part of Y Pant School that would flood when the River Clun rose, and I look at what's happened now with twenty-first century schools, and then I think what happened when Boris Johnson was in difficulty for making promises. He promised £1 billion for new schools in England. Well, in Wales, over the past decade, we have spent £2.8 billion invested in new schools. If that was an English project, it would have amounted to approximately £55 billion. When I look through the new schools that we have, the state-of-the-art, twenty-first century schools, that is an achievement that I think is outstanding, probably across the whole of the United Kingdom.

I asked you a question a few months back about whether Welsh Government would continue that, and you gave that assurance. I've not heard that any other political party has given the commitment to the funding, to the support and the partnerships with local government that will lead to a continuation of the twenty-first century schools programme. My question to you, I suppose, is: does that surprise you? Are you committed to the twenty-first century schools programme and do you welcome this as an outstanding achievement across the whole of the UK?

Thanks very much, Mick, and thank you also for your many, many years of service in this place. It's been quite extraordinary, your contribution, certainly as Minister, and in other roles. I know you've always fought for the underdog and I'd like to thank you and wish you all the very best in future as well.

Twenty-first century schools, I think, is a flagship policy of the Welsh Labour Government. It has transformed the life chances of people across our nation, and I would like to give you an assurance from a Labour perspective that this will continue if Labour is returned to power. I think you should assume if it is not made as a commitment by other political parties that you will see cuts in that area.

Thank you for your statement, First Minister. I know from my own constituents how important animal welfare and nature are to them, and I just want to highlight some achievements in those two areas. Firstly, Wales being second in the world for recycling. When I became an Assembly Member in 2007, we were very near the bottom of that particular league table, so to be second is incredible, and I think it's down to three things: it's down to the Welsh Government for showing leadership and providing that funding; secondly, it's down to local government using that funding, taking forward that policy; and, of course, thirdly, it's down to the people of Wales for embracing recycling and being part of that achievement.

Secondly, we are a nation of animal lovers, and I think that's very clear from the correspondence that we receive. Last week's ban on greyhound racing was a particular highlight in a very long list of Welsh Government achievements in this area.

And finally, I'm delighted to see the national forest now running the length and breadth of Wales. I hope you'll join me, First Minister, in congratulating Maes y Pant in my constituency, who announced last week after a very rigorous process that they are now part of the national forest for Wales.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Lesley, and thank you also for your leadership. It has been quite extraordinary. I know you served as a Minister for many, many years in this place, and it made a difference—your leadership and your passion and your commitment when it came to the environment, but in particular when it came to animal welfare. This was important. I know Lucy's law was a big issue for many people in our constituencies. Puppy farming was a problem, in particular in parts of west Wales, and it was great that we were able to bring that in, and to follow up with things like a ban on greyhound racing. Thank you to Jane Dodds for her leadership in that space as well. I'm sure we were all very pleased to see what happened in the courts last week.

The national forest for Wales is something that I think we should all be very proud of. As far as I'm concerned, this is just beginning. This has got to be something that spans the generations. Welsh Labour will make a commitment to that. I know that was started under your leadership. You should be incredibly proud of that, Lesley. We'll all be well dead and gone by the time that thing just continues and continues and continues to grow—not for us, but for our children and our grandchildren. That is what legacy is made of, and you have created an incredible legacy there.

I want to pay tribute to you, First Minister, for being the first female, and your predecessor, Vaughan Gething, who was the Cabinet Secretary under the most challenging of conditions that the country has ever seen, which was COVID-19. We managed that without giving contracts through VIP lanes to our mates. We didn't give £200 million of public money, of which Baroness Mone has now got to pay £148 million back. We did it by using the organisations that were there all of the time, and that was local government. We did it through social partnerships. We kept people safe, and they felt safe. We recognised the needs of those communities being delivered by the people who lived in those communities.

I often think, and I'm sure others do too, how much that £200 million would have meant to the health services we've got now. I hear people all the time asking about investment in the NHS. Well, there was a real opportunity to invest in the NHS, and it was squandered—literally squandered. And it cost, I have no doubt, some of those practitioners who we need, and we all pay a huge debt of gratitude towards, who worked, risking their own lives to save people like us and our families at the most challenging of times. That is what I wanted to say today, because I think it's important. We move on, we forget. Those people didn't move on, didn't forget, and I want to pay tribute to those people who've shown leadership from the front line here.

Diolch yn fawr, Joyce. If we want to talk about leadership, I want to talk about your leadership when it comes to women's rights in this place. Nobody has been a greater champion of women's rights than you. I'd like to thank you for your work in introducing the women's caucus here, and certainly the work that you've done on the White Ribbon campaign and many, many other projects that I know you've led in this place. Thank you for your work. It has been many, many years' dedication to this institution as well.

Like you, I would like to pay tribute to Vaughan Gething. He had a spell in a leadership role here, and I recognise that was a difficult time. But I think it is really important to recognise the years and years of commitment that Vaughan has given to this place, the difficulty during the pandemic, the incredible pressure that he was under during that time, where he kept us safe. He worked non-stop during that time. That is something that needs to be recorded in the history books. He needs recognition for that incredible leadership he showed during that time. I'd like to thank you, Vaughan, on behalf of the people of Wales for your leadership and for your commitment to this place.

Back to the day job now. 

This Order updates the exceptions to registration as a child minder or day-care provider under the Children and Families (Wales) Measure 2010. It replaces the 2010 exceptions Order. This new Order clarifies and amends the circumstances in which registration is not required. These changes make the law clearer and more consistent, ensuring a proportionate approach. They balance the need for oversight with supporting families to continue accessing a wide range of childcare, play work and activity provision that meet their needs.

Key changes to the exceptions include aligning the exceptions for child minders who are relatives with the childcare offer guidance, revising existing age and time thresholds and introducing new age and time limits to some of the exceptions, particularly for coaching and tuition activities, strengthening oversight and quality assurance for children aged two and under, updating rules for babysitters, enabling 10-year-olds to engage with transitional youth services and preventing suspended providers from operating under certain exceptions. These changes will bring benefits and give families more flexibility. Llywydd, this Order strengthens oversight where it's needed whilst maintaining proportionality, clarity, and accessibility, and I commend it to the Senedd.

Firstly, could I take a moment just to thank the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for its work in scrutinising this Welsh statutory instrument? I accept reporting points 1, 2, 4 and 7 and partially accept reporting point 5, as we set out in the Government response to the committee's reporting points. These technical drafting corrections will be made prior to the making of the regulations.

Wales, of course, is already second in the world for recycling. Thanks to the people of Wales and the hard work of our local authorities, Wales's municipal recycling rate for 2024-25 was 68.4 per cent. However, waste crime is impacting our actions to capture high-quality materials for recycling to move us to a more circular economy. Criminals undercut legitimate waste businesses, which isn't fair to them—the legitimate businesses—or to our environment, which is blighted by their activities. Waste crime is currently costing the Welsh economy between £20.6 million and £46.7 million every single year. A digital waste tracking system will replace the existing very fragmented paper-based systems for recording waste with a streamlined digital service, reducing the opportunities for waste crime and improving compliance.

These regulations in front of us today will deliver a first phase, which is to achieve the digital recording of information in respect of waste entering waste receiving sites, except commercial waste received at household waste receiving centres. They will be included in phase 2. Phase 2 is planned to apply to all waste movements, including those handled by waste carriers and brokers and dealers. Whilst the system delivered by these regulations is not the end point we want to reach, it is a very important stepping stone towards tracking all controlled waste, which overall has a net present value, if we can capture it all, of £8.95 million. Diolch, Llywydd.

Diolch, Llywydd. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered its report on the draft regulations on 16 March, and the Welsh Government's response yesterday. The committee's report contains seven technical reporting points and two merits scrutiny reporting points.

Three of the technical reporting points highlight defective drafting. For example, reporting point 1 notes that the regulations make reference to a regulation that does not exist, and reporting point 2 notes the incorrect use of the term 'digital waste tracking number' in regulation 4, rather than the defined term 'digital waste record number'. The Welsh Government has accepted these reporting points, and will make the corrections prior to making the regulations. The committee's technical reporting points also include three that highlight inconsistencies between the Welsh and English texts, including an erroneous cross-reference, and the inconsistent use of the terms 'must' or 'may'. The Welsh Government accepts these reporting points. It will make corrections in relation to two points prior to making, but does not consider the other to be significant enough to warrant doing so.

Reporting point 6 seeks clarity about how a person will be made aware of their ability to discharge liability through payment of the specified amount upon receipt of a notice of intent, served upon them by Natural Resources Wales, and the method for making such a payment. The Welsh Government's response sets out its view that a notice of intent does not need to include information on how to pay because it is a proposal to impose a civil sanction. It states that guidance would be the appropriate place for operational information, such as payment methods, and that future guidance will address these matters.

The committee's two merits scrutiny reporting points highlight that the annual digital waste tracking system fee is payable to the Welsh Ministers, and that penalties imposed by Natural Resources Wales are payable by it into the Welsh consolidated fund. A response from the Welsh Government was not requested to either of these reporting points.

I want to say how important this is. The digital tracking of controlled waste couldn't be more important. We know that the fly-tipping at an industrial scale of waste has ruined many innocent people's lives, as they find huge quantities of waste dumped at the end of their street or at the end of their lane. I applaud the fact that this is going to be a scheme that's going to be UK-wide, because otherwise we'd have dumping tourism. But, in future, all Parliaments need to start thinking about how we prevent the dumping of waste internationally, because the more we clamp down on these fly-tipping people who don't want to pay the cost of disposal of waste, the more likely, unfortunately, that poor countries will have waste dumped on them by criminals, frankly, who want to avoid their responsibilities.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. And, again, my thanks to the LJC committee for your constructive insight into those technical matters and to our response to your committee as well. And, Jenny, you rightly reminded us of the importance of this, not least in terms of tackling waste crime there. Waste crime, we estimate, costs the Welsh economy between £20.6 million and £46.7 million a year. And this does lead to fly-tipping. It comes from deliberate misclassification of waste, illegal waste exports and the operation of illegal waste sites, as we have seen across the UK as well. So, a key aim of digital waste tracking is to increase the transparency of reporting, making it much more difficult, then, for rogue waste companies to compete in the waste industry and to commit waste crime. And it'll also help us, I've got to say, to help better track what happens to the around 8 million tonnes of waste produced in Wales every year.

So, I would urge Senedd Members to support these regulations. This will give us increased transparency, tackle rogue waste companies in the waste industry and crack down on waste crime as well. And it'll also help us deliver, I have to say, our aspirations for a circular economy, where we actually capture those materials and use them. That's our future—keeping those resources in use for longer. So, Llywydd, I urge Members to support this.

These regulations set the framework for a scheme that has been very carefully designed and developed following extensive engagement to deliver improvement against Wales's already high performance, whilst also ensuring interoperability with the schemes in the other UK nations. I would very much like to thank again the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their work in scrutinising this Welsh statutory instrument, and as set out in the Government's response to the reporting points raised by the committee, I accept technical reporting points 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 14 and 15. Technical reporting points 2, 3, 6, 9, 11 and 12 will be corrected prior to the making of the regulations, whilst the Welsh Government will consider amendments at the next available opportunity to address the other technical reporting points that I have also accepted.

Now, whilst Wales is already recognised internationally for our recycling performance, a deposit-return scheme is an internationally proven way to help us go further, by tackling litter, increasing on-the-go recycling and supporting the move, ultimately, to reuse. Now , the Welsh Government's preference was always for an aligned UK-wide scope that worked for the whole of the UK. But the previous UK Government diverged away from that scope, and whilst a narrow recycling-only scheme can deliver in England, the context in Wales is actually fundamentally different. Our regulations, therefore, make provision for an all-in scheme, in line, actually, with the outcomes of the previous consultation, and the overwhelming majority, I have to say, of schemes internationally. This ensures it will tackle the rise in glass litter on our streets and beaches, and then phase in reuse in line with the world's best schemes. And I'd just like to say how pleased I am that this scheme will achieve this.

We all saw, years ago, when Scotland tried to introduce a scheme with glass, the then UK Conservative Government stymied those efforts. Now, that was absolutely unacceptable. I am very pleased that we have, through good collaborative working with Governments across the UK, right across the UK, managed to negotiate a better outcome that can help us build on our proud devolved record in this area.

But the scheme has also been adapted to address the impact of the variation in scope within the UK by aligning the start date, including a four-year transition period for single-use glass bottles, and then gradually phasing in reuse. But let me be crystal clear what happens if the regulations are not passed: it would mean no scheme in Wales when DRS is implemented elsewhere in the UK in 2027. What would this mean? This would lose the benefits to Wales, including those circular economy benefits and jobs benefits, the first-to-market benefits. It would bring significant cost and disruption to businesses and create, by the way, a significant fraud risk. This is a situation that the drinks industry has been clear is the absolute worst-case scenario if we do not pass these regulations. We want to avoid that scenario and see Wales derive the benefits of DRS, including, by the way, jobs and investment in recycling and reuse, and the savings for producers associated with phasing in that reuse as well.

And we also, quite frankly, want to continue Wales's long-term leadership in this area, building on the examples that go back in our time here in this Senedd, and previously in the Assembly, like carrier bags—leading the way on that. Rather than waiting for the rest of the UK to catch up, we can show leadership and then they will come with us. We have therefore brought forward a scheme using devolved powers that can deliver for Wales, and in doing so, take another significant step forward that can also benefit the UK as a whole.

Diolch, Llywydd. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered its report on the draft regulations on 9 March, alongside the Welsh Government's response. The committee received a significant volume of correspondence from industry stakeholders about these regulations, raising concerns about matters that fall both within and outside our remit. We considered these submissions alongside correspondence from the Chair of the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee and statements from the Deputy First Minister. I would like to extend my thanks to the Deputy First Minister for discussing these regulations with us in committee on 2 March, and to all those who have engaged with the committee.

The committee report contains 15 technical reporting points and six merits scrutiny reporting points, which I will summarise for Members today. Ten of the committee's reporting points seek further explanation from the Welsh Government about the form or meaning of the regulations. These reporting points highlight issues such as inconsistency in commencement date, the meaning of certain terms such as 'business day' and 'specified', and the clarity of cross-references. In its response to the committee's report, the Welsh Government accepted the majority of these reporting points and will make the corrections either prior to making the regulations or at the next available opportunity via a correcting instrument.

This group of reporting points also sought clarity about enforcement cost recovery, the basis for imposing variable money penalties for failure to comply with a compliance notice or enforcement undertaking, and the appointment process for the deposit-management organisation. The Welsh Government's response set out further details in relation to the enforcement cost recovery process, namely that the first‑tier tribunal will determine whether costs were unnecessarily incurred based on evidence from both parties. The Welsh Government also commits to considering amending the regulations in relation to variable money penalties at the next available opportunity, which, it states, should be available as an alternative to prosecution. However, the response states that further provisions about the deposit-management organisation would be overly prescriptive.

The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee's report also contains four reporting points that highlight inconsistencies between the Welsh and English texts. These reporting points include three examples of inconsistent cross-referencing and one instance where the English text uses 'state', whereas the Welsh text uses 'specify'. The Welsh Government has committed to correcting these inconsistencies prior to making the regulations.

The final technical reporting point highlights one instance of defective drafting, which, again, the Welsh Government will correct prior to making. The committee’s merits scrutiny reporting points raise a series of important matters about the development of the regulations and documentation supporting them. They include reporting point 16, which asks the Welsh Government to provide a clear and comprehensive update on the status of the timescales of the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 exclusion process. The Welsh Government confirms that all other Governments in the UK have agreed to an exclusion being brought forward for the DRS scheme in Wales. The next step, the Government states, will see the UK Government bring forward the required statutory instrument, which they expect to do during 2026.

Reporting point 18 seeks further information about the results of the 2025 Welsh Government consultation and any other relevant consultations. The Welsh Government’s response sets out that a series of targeted engagement sessions took place between January and December 2025, with approximately 250 attendees representing various stakeholders. The response notes that a consultation summary is currently being finalised, and will be published in due course.

Finally, Llywydd, reporting point 19 seeks clarification about whether the regulatory impact assessment is based on a 2021 assessment, and why a Wales-specific assessment was not used. The Welsh Government has stated that the 2026 assessment is Welsh-specific, although it builds upon the research base established through previous four-nations activities.

Well, this was one of the schemes I've been really wanting to come through this Senedd for many years. In fact, in 2020, I was really proud when the Member supported a Member's Bill going through for a DRS scheme here in Wales. It would make provisions to introduce a deposit-return scheme, and that would help to reduce waste in Wales. It is only now, the second-to-last Plenary day of the sixth Senedd, that we're seeing any progress towards this. This delay is a clear failing of this Welsh Government, with the Welsh Conservatives having called for a DRS since 2016, with the Chair of the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee highlighting in a letter to the Cabinet Secretary frustration with the continued delay.

DRS schemes have seen success in other countries that have implemented them, such as Germany and Norway, and they regularly achieve return rates of over 90 per cent, so those figures speak for themselves. Due to people being more financially motivated to return containers, less material does actually end up in landfill or incineration. As a result of these schemes, there is also far less litter on the streets, and the deposit acts as a great incentive for others to pick up containers and return them. I think many of us, of a certain age, can remember—. Well, I used to climb over the pub gates, if you like, and there would be a box there and you could actually walk round and take them in and get a refund. But we would also—[Interruption.] I know, it was a bit naughty, really—confession. But, no, it was seen as valuable to return it, just to get some pocket money for sweets. Anyway—. Mick Antoniw used to do it when he was younger. This will be a good way to encourage younger people to recycle.

I've learnt such a lot—Carolyn, you will as well—since we've been part of the cross-party group on anti-litter. The littering around now is terrible. I do lots of beach cleans, and it is—. When you see the cans, the bottles—either glass or plastic—that are on those beaches, it really does need a mindset reset about this. Now, these regulations will mean that, from 1 October, anyone supplied with a drink in single-use, closed bottles and cans, made from plastic, steel, aluminium and glass, must pay a refundable deposit to the person supplying the drink container, and then the refund will be then given when the container is returned to a designated return point.

But my Welsh Conservative colleagues and I, and this comes after talking to industry—. They strongly oppose the inclusion of glass in this scheme. We should remain aligned with the DRS plans across the rest of the UK, as England, Scotland and Northern Ireland have all planned for a scheme without glass. Its inclusion does risk complicating trade across the England-Wales border, creating confusion for customers and retailers, making operations harder for businesses working across the UK, and increasing financial costs, again, for retailers, pubs, hospitality and drink producers. So, with this in mind, I would ask the Welsh Government to scrap the inclusion of glass in this scheme, particularly as they have set themselves a four-year transition period for glass specifically, which shows that there are immense complexities of its inclusion in this scheme. Diolch yn fawr.

I'll begin by thanking the Cabinet Secretary for offering that technical briefing last week, and for access to some of his officials to ask some further questions. I am sure they appreciated all the questions that I sent over, but I had responses back and they were greatly appreciated. I have some sympathy as well with the Government, knowing that, of course, the position with the UK Government was to include glass originally, and that pulling out of including glass within that scheme no doubt caused a headache for him and his team.

This evening, we will be voting in favour of the regulations. I will address the point around industry. The conversations that I have had over the last week with representative bodies within the industry have all been pretty clear. They want to see the regulations pass because they can see the implications of not having a scheme being rolled out in line with the rest of the UK. Now, that isn't to say that they're completely happy with the regulations. I've been concentrating my questioning around the inclusion of glass within this scheme. The industry still remains sceptical about the inclusion of glass within the scheme, but, knowing the regulations as they're set out, there are provisions within the regulations for exemptions, and what I'm particularly interested in hearing from the Cabinet Secretary in his response to these contributions is how those exemptions work, what they look like and if the Government has created, for example, a list of potential exemptions. particularly when we talk about the Welsh food and drink industry, which is a relatively small industry, but could be impacted significantly by the inclusion of glass within the current scheme as it's set out.

Of course, perhaps this is a conversation for the next Government, or after the next election, but the question, I think, remains now that we have a DRS scheme rolling out—and he referred to it in his response to the previous set of regulations on digital waste—that we're collecting all this stuff and what are we going to do with it? An interesting conversation that I had around this scheme was the potential, actually, of Wales being a first mover in this area and us being able to build up that supply chain. So, thinking about the circular economy side of this, if there is time, I'd appreciate, again, an answer from the Cabinet Secretary about how he sees that developing as well. It’s an important opportunity for us to take here, but there are still things that need to be considered and still things that we need to work out because, as I said, industry is still sceptical about the inclusion of glass and sees the trickiness of its inclusion.

Dirprwy Brif Weinidog, the explanatory memorandum states that the purpose of the DRS is to support the transition to circular, zero-waste and net-carbon Wales. Considering the evidence from over 40 jurisdictions where DRS is operational, and as Janet Finch-Saunders already mentioned, return rates are above 85 per cent to 90 per cent. Those are the typical rates. The potential this poses for Wales, the second-best recycling nation in the world, as we've heard previously this afternoon, is phenomenal.

Importantly, it's a direction that the constituents want us to take. Polls consistently show that the vast majority of Welsh voters support a DRS that does include glass. Thankfully, the scheme before us goes further in supporting the admirable purposes of these regulations, because the UK Government has confirmed an internal market Act exclusion enabling Wales to proceed with a glass-inclusive scheme and, as the Dirprwy Brif Weinidog mentioned, enabling Wales to lead the way once again.

UK Government modelling has previously shown that including glass in a DRS delivers higher carbon savings, reduces drink-related litter by up to 85 per cent, and improves the benefit-cost ratio of the scheme. There is also the impact on the environment, which is quite clear. The British Veterinary Association reported that 47 per cent of litter-related injuries to animals were due to broken glass. I have a scar on my hand from falling on the floor in school onto a broken glass. The scar is still here to be seen. So, it is dangerous, and so including glass is so important. Marine surveys show drink containers present on 99 per cent of Welsh beaches, with glass litter appearing on half.

Especially important for me here in Cardiff is the finding in the city's violence reduction work that removing glass bottles from certain environments was associated with a 50 per cent reduction in hospital admissions for violent injuries. It is clear that the case for including glass is solid. This is also true when considering the findings by the Senedd cross-party group on littering, fly-tipping and waste reduction. They found this: that kerbside systems are designed to capture materials generated in the home and do not adequately address litter or on-the-go consumption; a four-year transition provides time for the industry to adapt—to adapt systems, labelling and data processes—while also enabling reuse pilots and operational trials; and deposit systems operate successfully across multiple European countries, with frequent cross-border travel, including within the Nordic region and across the Schengen area, so there shouldn't be confusion.

Clearly—I hope you've gathered, Dirprwy Brif Weinidog, from my comments—I will be voting in favour of the regulations today, but I wish to conclude by yet again thanking the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee—a committee I know that is very dear to your heart also, Dirprwy Brif Weinidog—for their thorough scrutiny of the regulations. I'd like to just follow up on a few of the technical points, but perhaps I won't put you on the spot now, as you might not be able to answer these this afternoon. Why, in section 9(10)(a), has 'business day' been used rather than 'working day'—'working day' being defined under the Legislation (Wales) Act 2019? Also, regulation 61(2) sets out the requirement upon a deposit management organisation when determining the amount of the deposit. Regulation 62 then provides for that amount to be revised, but does not specify that the requirements set out in regulation 61(2) also apply to any revision. Clarity on that intention is important, because, as regulation 62 is currently drafted, it could easily, in my opinion, result in Wales having very different prices to the rest of the UK. And finally, as you know, Schedule 5 deals with the appointment of the deposit management organisations. Now, whilst it sets out when such appointments may be made or revoked, there is little information about the process itself. Any explanation with regard to your intentions would be helpful. Diolch yn fawr, Diprwy Brif Weinidog.

Cabinet Secretary, as we've heard, there's a very real worry in the industry about the introduction of glass into the deposit-return scheme, and there's a very real worry of double counting and glass bottles fraudulently being brought into Wales from elsewhere to claim a deposit refund where no deposit was originally paid. Because of this, producers in Wales and across the UK will have to clearly separate products sold in Wales from those sold elsewhere. In practice, that means changes to production lines, which would add significant costs. Given that brewers, especially microbrewers, already operate on very small margins, these extra costs could make it financially unworkable for them. Moreover, there also needs to be much clearer guidance on how the Welsh DRS would fit alongside extended producer responsibility, which applies across the whole of the UK and already includes glass, because, in the rest of the UK, local authorities will continue to receive EPR funding to support kerbside glass collection, whereas, in Wales, glass recycling will fall under DRS instead. So, councils would likely miss out on that funding, creating a likely gap in resources for glass recycling. I have no doubt that any clarification on these would be gratefully received. Thank you.

Originally, I was a little bit sceptical of deposit-return schemes, because we're doing so well regarding kerbside-collected waste and recycling. We've spent many years rolling that out, and I know, across north Wales, it works really well. But I have been really convinced, coming down here to Cardiff, as you can see town centres and the litter that's left behind. Speaking to NGOs, there's the litter that's left in our lanes and on the beaches as well. So, I think, to be progressive now and to make that step forward, we need to pass this Bill and move on with it.

Concerns have been raised regarding spacing shops for reverse vending machines. The small beer producers, as Joel said, have raised concerns, and I welcome that there is provision for exemptions. I'd just like to ask as well about the increase of processes. The products will have to have labels put on, and then, if they are continued to put in those doorstep collections, the extra process is for councils having to deal with sorting them all out. So, when you respond, Cabinet Secretary, if you could just touch on those, really, as I'm just seeking reassurance on those. But, otherwise, this is the way forward now. We've got to deal with the rubbish and get it reused, actually—the product reused—rather than just recycled, as a progressive way forward. Thank you.

Communities across Wales will be glad to see this next step being taken. The litter that we see on verges, in fields and on our mountains isn't just an eyesore, but it's damaging, it's dangerous and it is avoidable. Learning from countries that have already introduced DRS systems and are achieving return rates of up to 90 per cent, Wales can again be one of the world leaders here, because fewer bottles and cans will be ending up on our streets, in our rivers, polluting our wildlife, and again being that danger. Glass litter can also cause real harm. Broken glass poses risk to people and to animals.

Wales should not be held back in our ambitions because of Westminster's retrograde decision making. Let's remind ourselves here that what we in Wales are embarking on now is where the rest of the UK were meant to go originally. It's where they will inevitably follow us as well. It was the Tories in Westminster who were the ones who decided to break that pledge, to break that decision, expecting the rest not to follow their lead but to follow their withdrawal, their resignation. Wales must do better than that.

But we will not do it in ways, of course, that will be making things more difficult for industry. As has already been set out by Luke and by others, there's actually quite a lot of feeling here that this is something where they need to have certainty. There are ways of doing this, in having that flexibility, that will not hinder businesses. This could give them the cutting edge. Giving them flexibility and the long lead-in times and clear guidance could help with that. If we want this scheme to succeed, it has to be done with business, and giving support especially to smaller businesses. But ambition is critical.

The Welsh Government decided to withdraw from the DRS process with the other three nations of the UK, citing their desire for Wales to be a trailblazer in moving beyond recycling and towards reuse. This is a worthy goal and I support the DRS, and, in theory, I'm not opposed to the inclusion of glass, but it must be a four-nation approach because the consequences of going our own way can be devastating for both businesses and the consumer. That's why the inclusion of glass is a big mistake, because we are going on our own. They have agreed to a four-year transition period where no deposit will be applied to glass containers, which means that producers will be paying for the establishment of return point infrastructure that will not be used. What incentive is there for people to drive their glass bottles to the nearest supermarket if they won't receive a deposit for returning them?

There are also serious concerns from the sector that compliance will make fees prohibitive for producers, which would lead to either higher prices and limited customer choice as brands pull out of the Welsh market. This is a serious worry, and, as far as I can tell, the Welsh Government have not undertaken any assessment of the impact of the scheme on both producers and consumers. We also haven't heard an explanation of how the Welsh Government will actually get people to return glass bottles during the four-year transition period if there's no financial incentive to do so.

We all support the goal here: less litter, better recycling and a cleaner environment. A deposit-return scheme can help that, but the issue is not the principle, it's whether this version of the scheme is workable. As drafted, we don't believe it is, because, instead of aligning with the rest of the UK, Wales is choosing to diverge, particularly by including glass. That decision creates real consequences. It means separate labelling, split supply chains, higher costs, especially for our SMEs across Wales. Many simply won't be able to absorb these costs. They'll withdraw products from the Welsh market, as already been mentioned by others. The estimates from the industry are stark. The product ranges could fall by up to 80 per cent to 90 per cent. That means less choice for consumers and a real hit to Welsh businesses, particularly in rural and border areas. And all of this for what? Wales already recycles around 92 per cent of glass, one of the highest rates anywhere in the world. I don't praise the Government for much, but on recycling targets they're doing pretty well. Yet the target under these regulations is just 80 per cent by 2030. So, we're adding cost, complexity, for no meaningful environmental gain, and during the transition period glass won't even carry a deposit, but will still require separate identification, where local authorities lose a major source of their funding linked to glass collection. That is not a coherent policy.

The process has not helped, with concerns raised about the impact assessments by the LJC committee and the way that these regulations have been brought forward. Llywydd, Reform does support a deposit-return scheme that is aligned, especially on glass, across the United Kingdom, that is practical and effective. But, unfortunately, Cabinet Secretary, this scheme is none of those things. It creates divergence, increased costs and risks undermining what already works. That is why we'll be voting against these regulations when the vote comes later. Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. I'll try and respond to most of the points, if I have time there, because it's been a really good debate. I didn't expect so many speakers and contributions. But let me just, first of all, start by thanking the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. We've, indeed, accepted the majority of the points that have been raised and sought in our response to you to show how we're going to address them. Thank you as well for taking the time to invite me to the committee, so we could explore some of the detail of this as well. 

Thank you for coming. [Laughter.]

No, I appreciated it, because there is a lot of detail under this, and also the detail that we shared with Members who sought some tech briefing as well, because it is important to get under the skin of this, and in doing so—. Janet, let me just begin with your contribution, because I was encouraged, I thought you were speaking in favour, and then you went round some corners and then you were speaking against, because of the inclusion of glass. Let me come to that directly. Ultimately, the consultation that took place on this was for an all-in scheme; it was four nations to be going this way. But what we've actually designed now, in concert with the other nations—not, by the way, just the UK Government, but actually with the other Governments of the UK—is a scheme that allows us all to walk forward together in 2027, but for us then to actually have a transition period, where we work with the sector and then we introduce single-use reuse of glass, and then, ultimately, we get to that destination that Delyth was rightly talking about, where we get to reuse, subsequent to future deliberations of a future Government and designing those elements of it, and then the UK and the other devolved nations have made it pretty clear that's the ultimate destination for all of us.

But I want to be really, really crystal clear, and I said it in my opening remarks there, where I said, if the regulations are not passed today, that is the nightmare scenario that the businesses are warning you against. Just to be clear, just to be really, really clear, because this is important, it would actually mean there is no scheme to progress in Wales when DRS is implemented in 2027. There will be no scheme in Wales. Not only would this lose the benefits to Wales, that would actually bring the costs—significant costs—and disruptions to businesses, and risk fraud. It's what all of the sector, Janet, and Joel, and James, have been telling us: 'Please avoid that nightmare scenario.' It's why we've designed a phased transition with them to actually manage this. There is an estimate here, if we don't take this forward, of between £48 million and up to £300 million fraud, if we do not actually step forward here today and pass this Order. So, I just want to say to you: be clear on what your decision today is if you do not support this, because it is inviting fraud, it is inviting interoperability, and it is inviting disruption to the UK market. You may have misunderstood representations that have been put forward. This big disruption comes if we do not actually have a scheme on a four-nations basis in 2027. Gareth.

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary. I take fully what you say, and that's something that's been echoed also by the industry, so it's quite a consistent analysis you're making there, Cabinet Secretary. But it's the issue over the glass that is the issue, and what the industry are equally saying is that—. They've been critical of the Welsh Government for deliberately putting glass in as a whole package, rather than it being a bit of a different set-up. So, would you accept that that would be the case? It's a little bit of a—. I wouldn't say it's misleading, but, in some ways, you've put the whole thing together as a whole package and put us in a bit of a 'do or die' situation in that sense, really.

No, far from it. Let me reframe exactly what you've said. The 'do or die' situation is if we fail to pass this today, because there will be no operational system across the UK in the four nations if you reject this Order today. Actually, what we've designed is a transition of four years for the introduction of single-use glass and ultimately then, a destination, subject to future Governments, to introduce the reuse of glass—something that Janet spoke favourably about in principle, but then said that we shouldn't be doing now. Actually, what we've got here today is designed to avoid that nightmare scenario in 2027 where there is indeed a real significant problem of fraud, interoperability and costs and disruption to the supply chain. Do not reject this today, because that's the nightmare that the supply chain is warning you about. And just to say, the all-in glass scheme is exactly the same proposal, the all-in scheme, that has been supported by really good Members in this Senedd, Llywydd, who are members of the cross-party group on litter, including amongst them Janet, Jane and others. They've supported this previously—that's what we're trying to bring forward.

Let me quickly go through some other aspects, because this scheme actually reflects the vast majority of schemes internationally. The same producers are already supplying to those markets. There isn't disruption, there are not interoperability issues. For small and medium-sized businesses, Luke, there are low-volume exemptions to ensure that they are not disproportionately impacted. There is no evidence, James, at all, that we are aware of, of producers in those markets—53 countries I think it is, and counting—removing their products from the market. It simply doesn't exist there.

So, let me go on to the points made by Rhys and—. Oh, sorry, I did mention the fraud implications of not actually passing this today in disrupting the market here. Rhys, some really good points made and thanks for your support on this. This does indeed go to our commitment, 'Beyond Recycling', and to capturing those benefits of a circular economy as described in the Net Zero Wales plan. It also goes very much in line with the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 and our consistent position that we should have, ultimately, an all-in scheme. But we've got a transition built in here to work with the supply chain to make it manageable and to avoid some of the consequences we've heard described. By moving to refillable containers, it would deliver carbon savings, we estimate, of 76 per cent for reusable glass versus single-use equivalents—so, a 76 per cent carbon saving ultimately there.

Wales, as you mentioned, is already, of course, second in the world on recycling, but this will take us forward. Just to say, as one of the top recycling nations in the world, we've got to draw from the very best global models, so the industry is supporting our concept of piloting reuse here within Wales. And that brings us, Luke, to that issue of 'first to market'. If we can have the first big pilot of reuse as part of this proposal, then we capture those first-to-market benefits where we have producers reusing, re-labelling those bottles and a new source of materials coming into the market as an alternative for people to think about: buy new, buy recycled, or buy reused ones as well, ultimately. That's why this is the right way.

For citizens, just to make it clear here, the scheme will give a convenient, accessible return option for everyone. I can remember the Corona pop days. I was one of those cheeky young oiks who went round collecting the bottles off the doorsteps, taking them back to the newsagents and getting my pennies back for my pocket money. Where you see this now working, we can develop it in a way that offers manual and machine returns, widespread, easy-to-reach locations across Wales, clear bilingual, consistent communications as well, explaining how this works, and we deliver safer communities, cleaner streets, less litter, less glass, and a more circular economy. So, this benefits the citizens of Wales, and, as I say, I was delighted to see the cross-party support in the cross-party group on litter, and so on, as well there.

Carolyn, just to say that we're working with local authorities very much on this. We're dovetailing it with the work on extended producer responsibility and the kerbside collection, so, if we pass this Order today, we can keep on working on that to make sure it's streamlined. And actually, that's a benefit of the approach we're taking, that we build on what we're doing and we go even further by working with what we've already got there.

And also, just to say as well, in terms of retailers, rather than put the burden solely on retailers to take back all scheme items, the detail of this is important, as Members who've engaged with this have seen. Our legislation supports flexible return options for DRS; it allows the deposit management organisation to make the arrangements it considers appropriate for return items, and this could include, by the way, as I've mentioned, the use of kerbside options as well as retailers or big collection points and so on.

I realise I've used a lot of time in trying to address some of the points here, but I did want to turn back to Luke, because I know you've certainly tasked my officials with a lot of questions, and I simply want to reiterate a couple of these. So, for example, I can't cover them all, but, in terms of small retailers and corner shops, one of the concerns is how does it work for them. This Welsh scheme intentionally provides greater flexibility for retailers than any other scheme in the UK, and it allows that scope to refine how the system works in practice for those smaller retailers and corner shops. It's not going to be mandatory on them—we'll work with them, the ones who want to—but what I've seen when I've travelled to actually see these in other countries is many of those shops who might have not entered the scheme initially have gone, 'I want to be part of it now, because we've got people bringing their bottles back, getting their money back and then buying the produce of my store.'

The regulations do bolt down the core element, but there is further work to be done in future then by future Governments as well to adapt this scheme, and future regulations to be brought forward as well, but the core scope is set out within it. So, the regulations set the core framework, but considerable flexibility is left now to the producer-led deposit management organisation for the detailed operation as well.

I can't cover all of this, because I know I'm taxing the Llywydd's vim, but, just to explain why this is intelligently designed, the approach to exemptions that you mentioned was engaged in the recent consultation to inform the adjustments we can make. That includes wider low-volume produce exemptions—they were part of that consultation—exemptions for complex or non-standard packaging formats; low-volume line exemptions—so, going to the heart of, if you like, really micro breweries and things like that—exemptions for reuse targets for internationally trade-sensitive sectors—so, some of those hard-to-identify bottles, such as international spirits or odd containers—and so on. So, there's plenty of ability here to shape this for what really works in Wales and to learn from the best international examples.

I don't think I've covered everybody's points, Llywydd, but I wanted to give some detail on this. This is a critical moment. Wales has led consistently for the right reasons, not just because we can and we should do it, but also because it helps with the UK as an entirety. What we have here—. I would say to those who are considering voting against, just bear in mind what I've laid out here. The nightmare scenario is not having a scheme in 2027, as designed here, where the four nations can, in 2027, walk forward together. The industry will say to you clearly that that's the nightmare scenario, not doing that. The benefits of this, of the circular economy, for citizens of Wales and for litter, are massive. So, I would urge Members to support this. It's once again a massive step forward for Wales in leadership in the UK, and joining over 50 other countries who are doing this right here, right now. Diolch.

Diolch, Llywydd. Following its approval by this Senedd in March last year, and the making of the first commencement Order back in November, the Health and Social Care (Wales) Act 2025 is due to substantially come into force on 1 April. The Act paves the way for a series of important reforms aimed at improving how care and support are delivered across Wales. These include provisions intended to prevent the extraction of profit from the care of looked-after children, provisions, as we will hear more of later this afternoon, to enable the introduction of direct payments for healthcare, as well as a small number of amendments to our regulatory framework for social care to ensure that it can operate fully and effectively.

These consequential amendment regulations make technical changes to both the Care Act 2014—that's the English equivalent of our Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014—and to the Regulation and Inspection of Social Care (Wales) Act 2016, in consequence of amendments made by the 2025 Act.

Regulation 2 amends cross-references within the Care Act to certain provisions relating to direct payments in our social services and well-being Act, which have changed following amendments made by the 2025 Act. Similarly, regulation 3 amends section 47(d) of our regulation and inspection Act regarding the making of false statements, to reflect amendments made to section 32 of that Act regarding the power to require information for regulatory purposes by section 17(2) of the 2025 Act.

Essentially, these regulations update references within existing primary legislation, therefore providing clarity and ensuring consistency in the law, and as such I commend them to Members.

Minister, I’m sure you will not be surprised to hear today that we will not be supporting these regulations. As you’ve known, from a number of times I’ve spoken on this matter, I do not support the Act in principle because I do not believe there’s capacity in the system to currently deal with removing profit from care. I believe in the quality of care provided, not how or where it is provided, and I don’t think removing profit from care is actually going to benefit the system. I think it’ll actually put a lot more pressure on local authorities, and we don’t have the capacity currently in the system to support the Act as it’s being implemented. So, in light of this, we’ll be objecting to today’s regulations. As I've said before, I do not support the Act in principle. Diolch.

Do you wish to respond?

Well, just to say, Llywydd, that this legislation has been scrutinised over a number of months and has already been approved by the Senedd, and these regulations simply update references within the existing primary legislation to ensure consistency in the law.

Diolch, Llywydd. My contribution today will be in respect of the Welsh Language Standards (No. 10) Regulations 2026, which the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered on 2 March alongside the Welsh Government's response. The committee report contains one technical scrutiny point and three merits scrutiny reporting points. The technical reporting point highlights an inconsistency in the meaning of the English and Welsh texts—a reference appears in the Welsh text that doesn't appear in the English. The Welsh Government has accepted the reporting point and will make corrections prior to making.

Of the committee's three merits scrutiny reporting points, two did not require a response from the Welsh Government. One highlights the connection between these regulations and the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011 (Amendment of Schedule 6) Order 2026. The other sets out that these regulations will be subject to a wider review of Welsh language standards by the Welsh Ministers at a later date, as required by the Welsh Language and Education (Wales) Act 2025.

The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee's other merits reporting point, reporting point 2, highlights an important discrepancy in how the Welsh language standards regime applies to documents that are available to the public or produced for public use. While documents made available to the public via the Freedom of Information Act 2000 are exempt from the Welsh language standards, documents made available to the public as a result of the Environmental Information Regulations 2004, which provides access to environmental information, are not currently exempt. The committee’s reporting point asks why the disapplication of the standards regime has been extended to documents made available under the Freedom of Information Act, but not to documents obtained via the Environmental Information Regulations.

The Welsh Government has acknowledged the committee’s point, which it states extends beyond this set of regulations. The Welsh Government will consider whether there is a need to bring forward legislation to amend all sets of standards regulations to determine that documents made available to the public under the Environmental Information Regulations should be exempted from the standards regime.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Thank you to Mike Hedges for setting out both the main issues identified by his committee, but also the Welsh Government's intended response. 

Diolch, Llywydd. These regulations, to be made using powers inserted into the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006 by the Health and Social Care (Wales) Act 2025, concern the introduction of direct payments for healthcare. If approved, they will principally come into force on 1 April 2026. 

Initial implementation is focused on adults eligible for continuing NHS healthcare, who, for the first time, will be able to request direct payments to arrange aspects of their own care in lieu of services provided directly by the NHS. This aligns with existing arrangements for direct payments in social care, and reflects long-standing calls from representatives and people with lived experience of long-term care. 

This reform strengthens autonomy and flexibility, offering individuals, many of whom are moving on from social care direct payments, the opportunity to retain trusted personal assistants who know them best, and shape the care that they receive in ways that best meet their needs and individual circumstances. 

In policy terms, these regulations help deliver on our programme for government commitment to improve the interface between continuing healthcare and direct payments. Direct payments for healthcare will not be mandatory, and will be agreed where they are the right and safe approach for the individual. This represents a meaningful step forward for increasing choice and control within continuing NHS healthcare, and I ask Members to support the regulations. 

Diolch, Llywydd. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the draft regulations on 2 February, and the Welsh Government’s response the following week.

The committee’s report contains five technical reporting points. Three of the reporting points—points 1, 4 and 5—relate to inconsistencies between the meaning of the English and Welsh texts. They highlight inconsistencies in references to legislation, and in certain terms in the regulations, specifically those that relate to drug and alcohol treatment requirements. The Welsh Government accepts that the use of different terms across the Welsh and English texts is undesirable, and will make the required corrections prior to making the regulations.

Technical reporting point 2 highlights that the term 'the 2005 Act' is referenced but not defined in the regulations. And finally, technical reporting point 3 notes that the regulations make reference to a sub-paragraph that does not exist. The Welsh Government will correct both of these reporting points prior to making the regulations.

I have no other contributions. 

Diolch, Llywydd. I would like to express my sincere thanks to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their expedited scrutiny of the regulations. This has allowed the debate to proceed today without the need to suspend Standing Orders.

The Welsh Government is deeply concerned about the ongoing conflict in the middle east. Our immediate priority is the safety and security of people in Wales, as well as all British nationals and individuals with leave to remain in the UK who may be in the region. We're working closely with the UK Government and monitoring developments to assess any potential impacts on Wales as the situation evolves. 

We anticipate that if the UK Government issues 'leave now' advice, and begins repatriating or evacuating people from the area, most of those returning to the UK will return to their homes or stay with family and friends. However, a small number may not have a settled and secure place to live and may be in housing need or at risk of homelessness. 

When people return to the UK at short notice because of a crisis overseas, there can be some uncertainty about eligibility for support. The UK Government, therefore, is putting in place a general crisis approach that allows people who already have a right to enter or remain in the UK to access support promptly when 'leave now' advice is issued or an evacuation is activated. 

The Allocation of Housing and Homelessness (Eligibility) (Wales) Regulations 2014 set out who is eligible or ineligible for social housing and housing assistance in Wales. The draft regulations before the Senedd today update that framework so it can be applied clearly and consistently in emergency circumstances, giving local authorities the certainty they need to respond at short notice.

We have introduced the regulations more quickly than normal because the situation is fluid and could change rapidly. I recognise that this shortens the usual scrutiny timetable, which I regret. For that reason, the regulations include a time-limited provision so that a future Senedd can review the position once the immediate situation is clearer, and undertake fuller scrutiny if required. I wish to thank the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for considering the regulations, as I said, in less time than is normally taken due to the urgency of this situation, and I am grateful to them for their efficient and rigorous review.

These regulations provide that those not subject to immigration controls, such as British nationals and those with leave to enter or remain in the UK, where that leave allows access to public funds, are eligible for housing allocation and housing assistance in Wales in the circumstances set out in the regulations. To be clear, these regulations do not change anyone's immigration status. They ensure that the Welsh eligibility framework can operate consistently and lawfully if people arrive in Wales at short notice following UK Government crisis advice or evacuation activity.

I hope Members will recognise the importance of these amendments and the value the draft regulations will bring those who may be forced to return at short notice. Anyone experiencing such distress deserves a clear route to advice and help on arrival, and I hope the regulations and the changes they make are supported.

Diolch, Llywydd. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the draft regulations yesterday. The committee did not request a response from the Welsh Government. The committee's report contains one merits scrutiny reporting point. The reporting point highlights that the regulations will come into force on 30 March 2026, and the general crisis provision will cease to have an effect on 30 March 2027.

The explanatory memorandum to the regulations states that this sunset clause will enable a future Senedd to carry out full scrutiny of any permanent regulations. The memorandum also notes that officials will monitor the impact of the amending regulations while they are in force, and that this evaluation will be presented to the incoming Welsh Government for consideration.

Reform are not convinced that disapplying the habitual residency test in the instances described in the explanatory memorandum, for which there is no active need, is necessary. The move would be contrary to the interests of the Welsh people. These amending regulations would introduce a new class of eligible persons for disapplication of the residency test, which would include those subject to immigration control from the West Bank and Gaza Strip. We are clear that housing assistance and social housing should be prioritised for Welsh men and women, with a strict 10-year residency requirement, waived for armed forces veterans, domestic abuse survivors and care leavers. The reality is that we should not even be considering these kinds of regulations given the Welsh Government's failure to eliminate the homelessness that we are seeing right on our doorstep here in Wales.

Diolch, Llywydd. Again, I welcome the opportunity to debate these regulations. I thank Members for their contributions. We do expect most of those benefiting from the regulations to be British nationals or people with an established right to live in the UK. These regulations ensure that anyone returning following UK Government ‘leave now’ advice can access essential help at a vulnerable moment. I believe this is a measured and compassionate response to a fast-developing international situation.

The memorandum laid before the Senedd on 27 February, together with a written statement published the same day, summarises the provisions of the regulations and sets out the changes to primary legislation for which consent is sought. I would very much like to thank again the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for its work scrutinising the statutory instrument consent memorandum and the report published on 18 March.

The objectives of the regulations are to clarify the definition of 'small farmer' so that it aligns with the policy intention, to prevent its misinterpretation, and to ensure the intended payments are made to the holders of plant breeders' rights, thereby supporting innovation and investment in plant breeding. The amendments the regulations make are of a technical nature, and do not introduce a change of policy.

The regulations substitute 'varieties' for 'variety' in the definition of 'small farmer' in section 9(10)(b) of the Plant Varieties Act 1997. The definition of 'small farmer' is connected to the exception in section 9(4) of that Act, and the payment of equitable remuneration to the holders of plant breeders' rights, a form of intellectual property.

The policy intention was and is for the 'small farmer' exception to apply to the sum of varieties grown in an area, not to each variety grown in an area. The amendments therefore will ensure that plant breeders continue to receive the intended payments on farm-saved seed from eligible growers. This in turn supports breeders to continue to invest in developing new varieties with improved traits that will benefit farmers, support sustainable food production, and improve resilience to climate change. It is normally the policy of the Welsh Government to legislate for Wales in matters of devolved competence. However, it is my view that it is appropriate to effect these amendments through the regulations as they represent the most practicable and proportionate legislative vehicle to enable their application to Wales.

Plant breeders' rights are administered by a controller appointed by Welsh, UK, Scottish and Northern Ireland Ministers. The provision that the regulations amend extends to Wales, England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, and the policy underpinning the regulations is aligned across the respective Governments. This method of amendment ensures the timely alignment of the plant breeders' rights regime right across the territories.

Though the regulations will not be made bilingually, I note the Plant Varieties Act 1997 itself was not made bilingually. I have laid the memorandum in accordance with the requirement under Standing Order 30A. I consider the regulations to be a relevant statutory instrument because they make provision in relation to Wales amending primary legislation that is within the legislative competence of this Senedd. Plant varieties and seeds are a devolved area and appear as an exception in Schedule 7A—reserved matters—to the Government of Wales Act 2006.

In the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee's report on the memorandum, they agree with the Welsh Government's assessments of the provisions within the regulations that require consent of this Senedd. The committee conclude that the regulations require consent under Standing Order 30A, and we thank them for their consideration of this. The statutory instrument consent motion today allows us to provide a pragmatic and proportionate response while using Welsh Government resources as efficiently as possible. The approach preserves our policy and legal resources for our own legislative programme and the programme for government. It's on this basis that the statutory instrument consent motion is placed before you for your approval.

Diolch, Llywydd. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the memorandum on the statutory instrument consent motion on 9 March in line with Standing Order 30A. It agreed its report the following week. The committee's report notes and agrees with the views of the Welsh Government that the provisions within the regulations amend primary legislation within the legislative competence of the Senedd and therefore require the Senedd's consent.

The Public Office (Accountability) Bill is a significant and important piece of legislation. It's one that aims to strengthen trust in our public institutions and to ensure that honesty and transparency and fairness are at the very heart of public service in Wales. The Welsh Government is proud to support this UK Government Bill. The origins of this Bill stem from a shared commitment to learn lessons from past tragedies, such as the Hillsborough disaster.

The Hillsborough disaster is a great stain on British history. The injustice suffered by bereaved families and the failure of the state to protect their loved ones is simply indefensible. The decades-long campaigning by brave, bereaved families to bring forth this landmark legislation should not go unrecognised. Learning lessons from devastating disasters and from scandals, including Hillsborough, Orgreave, Windrush, the infected blood scandal and Grenfell, this Bill aims to end the culture of cover-ups and hiding the truth, and to ensure transparency and accountability and support for bereaved families. The aim is simple, Llywydd: to guarantee that what happened then and the failures that followed can never happen again. This Bill seeks to put in place protections so that our citizens know the truth will be told and that they will be treated fairly and respectfully when the state is involved.

At its heart, the Bill introduces a legal duty of candour and assistance for all public authorities and public officials. This means that those who serve in our public bodies must act at all times with candour, transparency and frankness in their dealings with inquiries and investigations. The Bill also makes clear that it is a criminal offence for public officials or authorities to deliberately mislead the public if they know or ought to know that their act is seriously improper. This reinforces the expectation that truthfulness is not just a value, but a legal requirement. The offence applies across the UK, and the Welsh Government welcomes this here in Wales.

The Bill goes further, by setting clear standards of ethical conduct. Every public authority will be required to promote and take steps to maintain high standards of ethical conduct at all times by people who work for the authority, ensuring that ethical behaviour is embedded in every part of our public services. In discharging this duty, a public authority must develop a mandatory code of ethics for people who work for the authority—a code of ethical conduct. This ensures staff are aware of the code and the consequences of failing to act in accordance with it. The code must also set expectations for people who work for the authority, consequences for failing to act in accordance with it and to otherwise promote ethical conduct and candour and transparency and frankness within all parts of that authority.

For bereaved families, the Bill will make a real difference. It expands access to non-means-tested legal aid and advocacy, ensuring that families affected by disasters or state-related deaths can participate fully and effectively in inquests. This will help to address the imbalance of power and give families the support they deserve at the most difficult of times.

The Bill also modernises the law by abolishing the common-law offence of misconduct in public office. Instead, it introduces new, clearer offences, such as committing seriously improper acts whilst holding public office, and failure to prevent death or serious injury. So, accountability is both direct and understandable.

Importantly, the Bill recognises the need for consistency across the United Kingdom. It ensures that all citizens, wherever they live in the UK, are protected by the same standards, and that our public servants are held to the same expectations. This consistency is crucial for public confidence and for the fair treatment of everyone, regardless of location.

Now, in Wales we already operate under duties of candour and ethical frameworks in a number of policy areas. This is an opportunity to reinforce those existing commitments to honesty and transparency and openness, expanding and enhancing the expectations across our public services.

But this is not just about compliance. Candour is fundamental to our own professional excellence. Implementing the duty of candour and assistance is not asking us to become something different, but an opportunity to further demonstrate that the Welsh public sector learns from mistakes promptly and serves the public interest with courage. It is a direct response to calls from campaigners, calls from survivors, calls from those families, and it has been developed with their input and their support.

Throughout the development of this Bill, the Welsh Government has worked to ensure that our views are heard and our needs are considered. We have sought clarity on the impact of the Bill on Welsh legislation and Welsh services. We support the principles of the Bill and believe it will provide reassurance and improve performance in our public sector. Now, we do recognise it is unusual to debate a Bill that is not in its final form, but given the current context of the election and the Bill's carryover position, it is very important, I believe, that this Senedd has the opportunity to discuss this Bill, given its cross-public sector impact.

So, I would ask you to be mindful that the amendments tabled by the UK Government in January, those that the relaid supplementary legislative consent memorandum No. 3 refers to, have not yet been voted on and are expected to be reintroduced with the Bill in May. In particular, this includes the expansion of clause 11, the offence of misleading the public. We do not expect significant amendments, Llywydd, to be made to this important clause upon the Bill's reintroduction. Therefore, Members can confidently signal their consent to the principles of that clause.

So, in closing, I ask Members to consider the true purpose of this Bill, to protect the public and to ensure that our public services are worthy of the trust placed in them. I invite you to support the Bill by giving consent, supporting us to ensure that we continue to put the public at the heart of decision making and providing real accountability to all. Diolch.

Diolch, Llywydd. Well, I welcome the opportunity to take part in today's debate and wish to highlight the key issues the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee, or PAPAC, set out in correspondence with the Deputy First Minister regarding this legislative consent memorandum, and the supplementary memoranda for the Public Office (Accountability) Bill.

We held a session with the Deputy First Minister on 26 February and wrote to him soon afterwards with questions arising from the evidence received from him. Although it was disappointing that we've not had an opportunity to consider the updated supplementary legislative consent memorandum, LCM, which was withdrawn and replaced last week, I'm grateful to the Deputy First Minister both for his engagement on this LCM to date and his response to our letter ahead of today's debate.

In our correspondence, we asked for details about the stakeholder forum held by the Welsh Government on 11 March, and I welcome the information provided. I note that the event focused on helping stakeholders understand the Bill's main provisions. This is helpful in enabling the Senedd to understand the levels of engagement that have taken place, particularly as engagement during the development of this Bill was limited.

Proactive engagement and involvement is important in building clarity and confidence amongst those who will be affected by the legislation. We also asked the Deputy First Minister how he intends to ensure coherence between this Bill and secondary legislation expected under Part 3 of the Senedd Cymru (Member Accountability and Elections) Bill, passed by the Senedd last week. In response, the Deputy First Minister acknowledged that there is a perceived connection between the offence of misleading the public in this Bill and the Senedd Bill's deliberate deception provisions, but confirmed that the Welsh Government does not currently see an overlap between the two Bills in practice, because the Senedd Bill provisions will not deal directly with the executive functions of the Welsh Ministers. The Senedd Bill will also make changes to the Senedd's standards systems, but that system does not apply to the Welsh Ministers' performance of executive powers and duties, with such conduct being instead within scope of the ministerial code. Insofar as the Senedd Bill makes provision in relation to the making or publishing of false or misleading statements of facts before or during an election, it is specifically directed at actions during an election period rather than any other time. So, I'm grateful to the Deputy First Minister for elaborating on these differences between both legislative frameworks in his response.

We also recognise that, whilst the Senedd as an institution is excluded from the provisions on the duty of candour and misleading the public, Members of the Senedd will be subject to the new statutory offences in Part 3 of the Bill, which will replace the existing common law offence of misconduct in public office. Following our session, the Deputy First Minister also made a commitment to provide further information on assessments made by the Welsh Government on the interaction between this Bill and existing mechanisms of parliamentary privilege, to ensure clarity for Ministers and Members of the Senedd on the practical impact of this legislation. The Deputy First Minister confirmed in his response to the committee that parliamentary privilege has not formed part of discussions with the UK Government and is likely to be outside the scope of the Bill.

So, to close, Llywydd, I welcome the Deputy First Minister's engagement with the committee. It will now, of course, be for the next Senedd and the next responsible committee to consider further memoranda relating to this Bill in greater detail, given that the Bill will now be carried over to the next parliamentary session at Westminster after May. Diolch.

Diolch, Llywydd. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee laid its report on the first memorandum in December 2025, and its second report, which covered the second and third memoranda, on 12 March. The Deputy First Minister states in his relaid third memorandum that he wishes to give the Senedd the opportunity to express its views on provisions in the memoranda.

Before I move on to the Bill itself, I would like to highlight that seeking the consent of the Senedd for a Bill at this stage inevitably caveats today’s debate. The Senedd may give its consent or refuse it, but, in either case, the Senedd is not giving a view on the final Bill. Critical discussions are ongoing relating to how the Bill relates to the security services. It is very likely, therefore, that significant changes to the Bill will be made during the next parliamentary session.

But the limitations of today’s debate go further than voting on an unfinished Bill. As the Deputy First Minister points out, the Senedd is giving a view on amendments that have not been moved. He tells us that these amendments will have to be re-tabled in the next parliamentary session if they are to be made part of the Bill. It is likely that the next Welsh Government will need to lay a legislative consent memorandum accordingly for the seventh Senedd’s consideration. The views of the seventh Senedd will, rightly, supersede the determination of this Senedd in today’s debate. If those amendments are not re-tabled, this debate would relate partially to amendments that are not in the Bill. Deputy First Minister, could you set out what you believe the impact of today’s debate will be, given that the seventh Senedd will need to take its own view at a later date? This is yet another example of the challenges we face in relation to the legislative consent process. We discuss these challenges in our legacy report, which will be published shortly.

Moving back to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee’s view on the Bill itself, our concerns can be grouped into three areas: inter-governmental engagement, consultation with Welsh public bodies and delegated powers. In relation to the former, it doesn't appear that the UK Government engaged sufficiently with the Welsh Government during the development of the Bill. In the first memorandum, the Deputy First Minister stated that there had been limited engagement with the UK Cabinet Office, and that understanding the scope, implication and impact of the Bill ahead of introduction had been challenging. Since then, the Deputy First Minister appears to be more positive about the level of engagement between the UK and Welsh Governments. I ask the Deputy First Minister whether this is a fair interpretation of his views.

The committee’s second area of concern was that Welsh public bodies had not been sufficiently consulted about the impact of the Bill on them. We wrote in November 2025 to the Deputy First Minister, the Llywydd, the Welsh Local Government Association and the NHS Confederation to seek their views on the Bill. I'm grateful for the responses that we received, within a very tight timetable. They suggest that, at that time, neither the UK Government nor the Welsh Government were taking responsibility for ensuring that devolved Welsh public bodies were consulted about the Bill. Indeed, the Deputy First Minister himself wrote that consultation on the Bill is ultimately a matter for the UK Government, and that he understood that engagement with Welsh stakeholders to be minimal. However, since then, it appears that engagement with Welsh public bodies has increased. We are pleased that the Welsh Government is now working with the UK Government to ensure that Welsh public bodies are consulted, and that offer of support has been extended to public bodies in relation to concerns they raised about the impact of the Bill. Deputy First Minister, can you update the Senedd on how the Welsh Government is supporting public bodies to understand and prepare to implement any changes that will be required under the Bill?

The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee's third area of concern relates to devolved powers. We queried why the Bill did not confer any commencement powers on the Welsh Ministers, nor provide that the Secretary of State seek the approval of the Welsh Ministers before commencing provisions in the Bill that relate to devolved Welsh matters. We also sought clarity from the Welsh Government on why the UK Government have included a number of concurrent powers in the Bill. The committee considered yesterday the Deputy First Minister’s response on behalf of the UK Government. We note the policy objective of pursuing a UK-wide approach to the Bill, but remain of the view that the Secretary of State’s commencement powers should be subject to a duty to seek the consent of the Welsh Ministers. Deputy First Minister, do you consider that there are any risks to the effective implementation of this Bill in Wales if the Secretary of State has no obligation to consult the Welsh Ministers before commencing provisions that directly affect Welsh public bodies?

Finally, Llywydd, the committee has agreed with the Welsh Government that the provisions and amendments set out in the three memoranda laid by the Welsh Government to date require the consent of the Senedd.

And can I just finish off with my personal view? I very strongly support this Bill.

I'm grateful to you for the way you've presented your argument, and I've tried to follow that. A couple of weeks ago, we had a debate here where you spoke about the importance of honesty and the importance of integrity in public life. We come from different positions, but you spoke very powerfully and convincingly. I find it inconceivable that—and I accept the criticisms you make of this legislation, by the way, but there is a bigger picture here—I find it inconceivable that you could speak so powerfully a few weeks ago on a matter of deliberate deception and now sit on your hands when there is something so important in front of us. I think that is a real, real mistake, if that’s what you are going to make.

I just say how disappointed I am. I do understand the constitutional points, but this is a matter of the gravest magnitude. I recognise, of course, there is still a long way to go on this legislation. My colleague Alex Davies-Jones, whom I share a constituency with, I give credit to her for the way she's driven it through. There are issues to be resolved and I do hope those will be resolved very quickly. The important thing is that this matter has come before us now, and I think the families expect us to be able to give that support in every way that we can, bearing in mind that those restrictions exist at the moment and the fact there will be further discussions.

I think we should give absolute recognition to the families. I had the honour, in Liverpool, to meet with them several years back, and the fact we have families and that it's taken 25 years to get to this particular point is of such credit to them, and also to people like Andy Burnham and people like Steve Rotheram, who've also been outspoken in arguing for justice. Many of us remember those events when they occurred in Hillsborough, and, of course, the number of Welsh citizens—the close connection there is in football between many people in Wales and with those particular events.

For me, also, a reason why I've taken so much interest in it over the years is because it linked back to the Orgreave events. The battle of Orgreave, we know, occurred during the miners' strike. Had there been a duty of candour at that particular time, then it is quite likely that they would not have had to wait 25 years for justice for the Hillsborough victims. And hence the Orgreave Truth and Justice Campaign, I also give credit to that, and also credit to the Government for fulfilling its manifesto commitment in that there is now a statutory inquiry into those Orgreave events. So, we learned the lessons of that history, but this is a piece of legislation that is really magnanimous, and I think it would be very disappointing if this were not carried through today, as would the message it would send out to those Hillsborough families, who are expecting justice and who are expecting this legislation to actually move quickly and be put on the books, to happen as quickly as possible.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. In some remarks, responding to all Members—and I thank all Members for their comments—I really do appreciate the unusual landscape and timing that the Bill is progressing through, given the context of the Senedd election period, and the challenges that this creates then for legislative scrutiny. But I would simply say that this is an opportunity to express a view at a formative stage of this legislation that otherwise we would miss, and it could also be, in expressing that view, a help to further scrutiny in the UK Parliament of something that, as we've been reminded and all people would agree on, is of such interest to those families who have noted our support on a cross-party basis over so much time, and I'm sure would welcome our support, going forward.

But let me try and respond to some of the matters that have been raised, in brief. First of all, Members have been asked to give consent, in this LCM, to the changes that have been made. It's not yet the final form that may come in front of a future Welsh Government, but it is in a formative way. We appreciate it's not in its final form, but we thought it was absolutely right to give this Senedd, before we all go from here, the opportunity to express our view quite clearly.

On the UK Government engagement, Mike—and my thanks to both the Chairs and the committee members for their scrutiny and for their engagement with us on this piece of legislation, as well—it's worth saying that the Bill that is being taken forward was a Labour Party manifesto commitment. My officials have engaged closely with the UK Government and other devolved Governments, and we will continue to do that through the remaining passage of the Bill. I did indeed write to Welsh stakeholders in December to ensure they're aware of the Bill and the impact. We hosted an engagement session, led by UK Government officials but hosted by the Welsh Government on 11 March, where Welsh public sector stakeholders had the opportunity to engage and hear directly about the Bill. It is probably, Mike, fair to say that, in the early stages, at official level, we would have liked more time to consider the finer points of how the provisions of the Bill would sit alongside aspects of the law specific to Wales, but we do now have regular and positive engagement. Our officials are meeting on a regular basis as well in order to take this forward. The UK Government is responding in a very timely manner to our inquiries and those from public bodies as well.

In terms of the impacts here in Senedd Cymru and, indeed, on Ministers as well, which has been a point of interest, the offence of misleading the public is intended to apply to Welsh Ministers acting in their executive function, and so it should. The Senedd Cymru (Member Accountability and Elections) Bill doesn't deal directly with that aspect. So, going forward, on the issue of any interaction within the Senedd Cymru (Member Accountability and Elections) Bill and this piece of legislation, I would firmly expect Ministers in the next Senedd will consider the definitions and formulations of, for example, the offence of misleading the public in the Public Office (Accountability) Bill as the provisions under Part 3 are developed. There will be an opportunity to consider the appropriateness of alignment whilst recognising that they are seeking to remedy different issues.

If I turn to the issue, briefly, of parliamentary privilege, which has been touched on as well, the new criminal offence of misleading the public will be applicable to UK and devolved Ministers acting as such, but not Senedd Members or Westminster MPs more broadly. However, where UK Ministers make a statement in Parliament, they are protected from criminal liability arising from the making of that statement by article 9 of the Bill of Rights. Welsh Ministers, just to be clear, do not benefit from that protection, and so their statements to the Senedd may give rise to liability under the new offence of misleading the public, though they are protected from defamation and contempt of court in respect of statements made here in the Senedd. This constitutional difference already exists in relation to other offences that could be committed by making a statement in the Senedd. And, just to be clear, both UK and Welsh Ministers could commit the offence by saying something in their ministerial capacity outside of this legislature.

On the timing, which has been much remarked upon, the UK Government, as everybody will know, has taken the decision to delay the remaining Commons stages of the Bill, at Report Stage and Third Reading, to provide some more time to work with campaigners—I've met with the campaigners myself directly, and I really appreciated the time that they took with me—to ensure that the amendments get the balance right between transparency and national security. So, the issue that the UK Government is seeking now to address is the way in which national security safeguards operate alongside the duty of candour. This has impacted upon the timing, and that's why seeking a view here today is important in this formative stage. We understand the Bill will be subject, Llywydd, to carry-over procedures in Parliament, but this short delay should ensure that the duty of candour to the intelligence services and individuals who work for them gets that balance right. So, there is some additional time spent now to get this right. It's going to be time well spent. The UK Government have drawn up a revised timetable. Welsh Government officials are in discussion on how that timetable may align with legislative consent processes in Wales, and Scotland, given the elections coming up. And you are right, as has been remarked here, that, should it wish to, the new Senedd could debate and vote on a further LCM at a later point in the Bill's passage. This will be a matter for newly elected Ministers and for the Senedd.

And if I can just turn to—I can't cover every aspect—the commencement powers—

You are out of time.

My apologies.

So, if you can bring your comments to a close.

Yes, my apologies. There were so many points raised. On the issue that Adam raised on the duty of candour, if we were to allow the duty of candour and assistance within this legislation to be commenced at different times on devolved and reserved matters, it creates the possibility it could apply to some aspects of an inquiry but not others, which could risk confusion and the risk of disparity of application.

But, Llywydd, I simply say in closing that at the heart of this is what we are trying to learn from past tragedies—Hillsborough, Orgreave, Grenfell, Windrush, the infected blood scandal. The focus for us in expressing a view today must be on that substantive issue of delivering transparency, accountability and support for them and the bereaved families.

Diolch, Llywydd, and thank you for allowing me to make this point of order. In item 5, the First Minister's statement on a fairer Wales, the First Minister repeated the claim that Government has hit its 100,000 apprenticeships target. But, of course, the First Minister will also be aware of a letter sent to her by the Office for Statistics Regulation disputing that claim. [Interruption.] As I, and others, have raised—

I've said it's a point of order; it is a point of order. Continue, please. 

As I, and others, have raised, and also in committee, there are two measures. [Interruption.]

Joyce Watson, it is a point of order. Will you please not test me at this final stage of this long day? Luke Fletcher, continue to—

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. 

—bring to a conclusion your point of order.

There are two measures that are used. One of them is the rigorous measure. I'll quote from the letter specifically:

'The rigorous measure has been used historically to report on progress, including in annual reporting during the current Senedd term. This was also the measure used prior to the target being reduced from 125,000 to 100,000 in June 2024.

'The claim that over 100,000 apprenticeships have been delivered in Wales in this Senedd term is not supported by the rigorous measure and appears to create an inconsistency with previous reporting and could be perceived as cherry-picking the data.'

Now, it's not just the Office for Statistics Regulations that are disputing this claim, it's also the further education and apprenticeship sector. So, I would ask the Government—not just the First Minister, but the Government—to reflect on the amount of people that are disputing that claim and correct the record. I'll end how the letter ends:

'Transparency matters because it enables debate to focus on the important issues. It is crucial to avoid using data that is overly selective or missing appropriate context.'

I can't see anybody wishing to respond to the point of order, and your comments are now on the record.