National Assembly for Wales

Welcome to this Plenary meeting. Before we begin, I want to make a few points. A Plenary meeting held using video-conference, in accordance with Standing Orders of the Welsh Parliament, constitutes Senedd proceedings for the purposes of the Government of Wales Act 2006. Some of the provisions of Standing Order 34 will apply for today's Plenary meeting. These are noted on your agenda. I would remind Members that Standing Orders relating to order in Plenary meetings apply to this meeting, and apply equally to Members in the Siambr and those joining virtually. 

So, to begin, I wish to inform the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 26.75, that the Wild Animals and Circuses (Wales) Act 2020 was given Royal Assent on 7 September. 

The first item this afternoon is questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from John Griffiths. 

Llywydd, an enormous effort has been mobilised across Wales to protect our most vulnerable citizens during the pandemic. In addition to our public services and third sector organisations, countless volunteers, friends and neighbours have provided help to those most in need. Our winter protection plan, published today, sets out ways in which this huge collective effort can be continued.

First Minister, COVID-19 has laid bare the indefensible unfairness in our society. Those on lower incomes, in insecure jobs, living in poor-quality housing and suffering health inequalities are particularly vulnerable to the virus, in terms of their health, economically and socially. Our more deprived communities, black and ethnic minorities, and disabled people are disproportionately affected. In Newport, we have experience of this, and we now have a worrying spike in COVID-19 cases. First Minister, will you set out the Welsh Government's response to this recent outbreak, and join me in urging local people and businesses to redouble their efforts to follow regulations and advice to keep the virus under control and avoid further lockdown?

Llywydd, can I thank John Griffiths for those very important points? He quite rightly draws attention to the recent spike in numbers of people suffering from coronavirus in the Newport area. A considerable effort is being mobilised through the local outbreak control team, working very closely with the local authority—I was speaking with the leader of Newport City Council, Councillor Jane Mudd, yesterday—and our test, trace, protect team have been absolutely assiduous in following up all those cases that have come to our attention, and then, in turn, getting in contact with the people who they have been in contact with. As a result, those efforts are helping to stabilise the position in Newport. And of course we hope that there will be no need for further action, but if there is a need, if those figures do not improve and local action has to be supplemented by national action, then that is exactly what will happen. And as John Griffiths said, Llywydd, that is even more important for those vulnerable groups in a city like Newport—black and minority ethnic communities, people with disabilities, and so on—for whom, were the virus to get out of control, the risks would be particularly serious.

Good afternoon, First Minister. I listened to your response to John Griffiths very carefully, because I agree that there's a lot of harm to be done if this virus gets out of control. There's also a significant harm that will happen to people who may be asked to shield again, to people who have such disabilities, to people who've got perhaps learning disabilities, do not understand clearly what is going on. So, for example, I've been approached by a disability advocacy group, where one mother's daughter, who's in a residential setting supported by social services, has been told that she probably will not be allowed to go home until June of next year—next year. We are asking some people to make absolutely extraordinary sacrifices. If we do have to go back into lockdown, those who have to shield will have to go back into it. First Minister, what assurances could you give us, or what can the Government do, to make sure that, this time around, if we are faced with that situation, there are ways we can be more compassionate and more kind about some of the things we're asking some of the very vulnerable people in our society to cope with, especially those who perhaps have more difficulty in understanding the necessity?

Llywydd, I thank the Member for those points. I agree with very much of what she said—that the impact of responding to coronavirus falls especially hard on those people who have the least ability to be able to recognise what is happening around them and then to respond to it, whether that be very elderly people who have suffered from dementia, whether it be people with learning disabilities, and so on. And it is very important that we learn from the experience of the last six months. My colleague Jane Hutt has chaired five meetings of the disability equality forum over that period. It's been attended as well by the chief medical officer and by my colleague Julie James. And all that is about trying to learn from the lived experience of people who, as in Angela Burns's contact's case, have had to live with the astonishing burden that coronavirus has placed on some members of our society. So, I think the best assurance we can give those people is to listen carefully to them, and to hear from them about ways in which, were we to face a further period of the sort we faced back in March and April, we have learned from the ways in which they have coped with this experience. And where we can do more to support them and can design our public services in a way that is better able to respond to their needs, then that is exactly what we will try to do.

Llywydd, the Office for Budget Responsibility's latest assessment shows a very large increase in the fiscal deficit for the UK as a whole during this financial year. The Welsh Government's fiscal framework protects the Welsh budget from the impact on devolved revenues of the UK-wide economic shock arising from the pandemic.

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. Your Government has encouraged local authorities to invest in commercial properties around the country. You've lent them taxpayers' money to do so, and the Development Bank of Wales lends money directly to private companies developing commercial properties. Last financial year, the bank lent £34.1 million of taxpayers' money to property developers, and this year the bank has two funds available to property developers, totalling £97 million. Most of it is in the commercial property fund, and all of the money is provided by the Welsh Government, i.e. the taxpayer. As a result of lockdown, property experts are predicting that commercial property could lose 50 per cent of its value and rent returns will go through the floor as businesses close and downsize offices because more staff are working from home or need rent holidays. Even the Office for Budget Responsibility admits to at least a 14 per cent drop in value over the next year. If the OBR are correct, the Development Bank of Wales could lose £7.7. million in one year if it invests all of its commercial property fund of £55 million. The bank may already have lost £4.7 million on last year's investments. The picture could be just as bad for local authorities. Flintshire County Council, for example, owns 13 business centres and industrial estates. So, how much taxpayers' money invested in commercial property could be lost due to lockdown? How much money have you set aside to bail out councils who lose money because of investments in commercial property reducing? And has the DBW changed its lending criteria towards commercial property developers since the coronavirus came along and changed the way people work and conduct business? 

Well, Llywydd, I think the risk in the Member's question is to conflate short-term and long-term consequences of the pandemic. In the short run, there's absolutely no doubt at all that commercial property values have been affected by coronavirus and that they will continue to be affected as the economic shock of the pandemic unfolds across our economy. But I don't think that we should assume that those short-term impacts are guaranteed to be characteristic of the way the economy will recover. Nor do I think it is fair to criticise any organisation from having made lending decisions in one set of circumstances when something entirely unforeseeable then makes a difference to the way that those investments are now valued. What I expect to see is I expect lending decisions now to be calibrated to the current set of circumstances we see, and I expect us to take a long-term view of some of those investments and not to make decisions in haste that would respond to what we all surely hope is a temporary impact of a global set of circumstances on our economy and that the economy will recover in ways that will protect those investments in the longer term. 

I think Michelle Brown just about covered everything there, didn't she, First Minister? But I'll ask you about the tax situation. Yesterday, in Finance Committee, we had an evidence session with the finance Minister, where she spoke about the impact of the pandemic on house sales and on land transaction tax. What assessment has been made of the ongoing pandemic on not just that tax but on all taxes, including the Welsh rate of income tax? And you just mentioned in response to Michelle Brown that the fiscal framework supports the Welsh budget against shocks such as a pandemic and UK and international shocks. Are you confident that the fiscal framework is operating properly and that it will fully defend the Welsh budget and Welsh tax revenues against the shock of the pandemic? 

Well, Llywydd, if I was to take Nick Ramsay's phrase literally, 'fully defend', then I don't suppose I could guarantee that, because the impact of coronavirus will be felt across the whole of the UK economy as well as the Welsh economy, and across UK Government revenues as well as our own. I am confident that the fiscal framework defends us against shocks that would be experienced in Wales where those shocks are experienced elsewhere. The block grant adjustment will take account of that and will mean that we are protected against those effects.

I'm also pleased to be able to say to the Member, because I know what a close interest he took in it at the time, that the 105 per cent consequential rule that we have as a result of the fiscal framework has already provided £360 million to Wales that would not have come to Wales were it not for the fiscal framework and that part of it that we negotiated at the time. So, we are defended by the fiscal framework. None of us are defended against the global impact that coronavirus has on the whole of the UK economy and more widely. 

First Minister, I am confident that you will agree with me when I say that an innovative use of tax competencies can have a positive effect on our public finances, as well as bringing other positive societal benefits. As you will know, I'm a keen supporter of the vacant land tax, which could not only boost public finances but, more importantly, also transform our communities. So, I was disappointed to read the written statement from the finance Minister last week about the foot dragging from UK Ministers on this. Will the Welsh Government continue to press UK Ministers to respect the devolution settlement so that these proposals can be developed and not let them use responding to the pandemic as an excuse for inaction or rowing back?

Llywydd, I thank Vikki Howells for that, and I very much recognise the interest she has taken in the vacant land tax issue. I well remember the short debate that she held on this topic. Sadly, this is a much less positive aspect of our negotiations with the Treasury. While I was able to speak positively of the fiscal framework, this is a much less satisfactory story.

Let's remember for a moment, Llywydd, that what we have been trying to do is to use a power put into the Conservative Government of Wales Act 2017. This is a power that the then Government put on the statute book, and it allows the Welsh Government to propose new taxes for Wales. Some Members here will remember that we deliberately chose a narrow and specific tax, a vacant land tax, not a controversial tax, in many ways, in principle, in order to test that machinery. More than two and a half years have gone by since that proposal was first put to the Treasury. And, despite what have, at some points, been reasonably productive relationships, in August we received a very disappointing letter from the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury, reopening a whole series of questions and debates that had already been answered in previous negotiations. I'm afraid what is becoming apparent is that the machinery that we set out to test is not satisfactory; that it is not competent to deal with the issue that the previous Conservative Government itself put on the statute book for Wales. We'll continue to work away at it, as Vikki Howells has said, but I'm afraid what we're learning is that the machinery itself is broken beyond repair.

Questions now from the party leaders. Leader of the Conservatives, Paul Davies.

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, yesterday it came to light that Public Health Wales admitted a data breach that saw details of just over 18,000 people, who'd tested positive for COVID-19, posted on its website for almost a whole day. That figure included almost 2,000 people living in communal settings such as nursing homes and those living in supported housing, which went as far as to reveal their place of residence. First Minister, given that this is not the first time there has been a problem with public health data, it's deeply worrying that the health Minister didn't come forward with this immediately and with an explanation on what steps will now be taken to restore public confidence, because it's been suggested that the Government has known about this for weeks. So, First Minister, I hope you'll now take the opportunity today to apologise to the people affected by this latest data breach. Will you also take the opportunity to tell us how long the Welsh Government has known about this breach and what you're doing to restore public confidence in its data management?

Well, Llywydd, I learnt of this data breach yesterday, and I learnt of it as a result of Public Health Wales's statement, which, as Paul Davies has said, drew attention to the data breach. It is a serious matter when data regulations are not properly observed, and I think Public Health Wales was right to apologise to those people whose data was inadvertently put into the public domain in this way. Thankfully, as Paul Davies said, the breach lasted for less than a day and the initial inquiries suggest that no harm has been done as a result. But that is a matter of luck rather than anything else.

It's right, therefore, that Public Health Wales has instituted an inquiry into what went wrong, has informed the Information Commissioner, and we will look to both of those offices to make sure that the reasons that lie behind the data breach can be identified, and if there are any systems that need to be put right, that those steps are taken rapidly.

Well, I'm sure, First Minister, the people affected would appreciate an apology from you as First Minister, given that these circumstances have taken place. But, of course, this isn't the first personal data breach, following the incident where 13,000 shielding letters were sent to the wrong addresses earlier this year, not once, but of course twice. Let's also not forget that Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, under your direct control, First Minister, failed to report daily coronavirus death figures because it used a different reporting system to one set up for the Welsh NHS. Therefore, let's hope that this is the last time people's personal data is mishandled during this pandemic, as this could very well damage public confidence, particularly as people are being asked to hand over personal details for the track and trace system.

First Minister, there's also understandable concern at plans to reduce COVID-19 testing from weekly to fortnightly at care homes in north Wales. Can you therefore confirm that the Welsh Government will not reduce the weekly testing of care home residents in Wales? And can you tell us what discussions the Welsh Government is having with those in the Welsh care sector about its testing programme?

Well, Llywydd, it's important to correct a number of points in that. Let's be clear that Betsi Cadwaladr's use of a different reporting system did not involve any breaches of personal data. The two things are entirely different and they're not connected in the way that the Member attempted to connect them in his follow-up question, nor are care home residents tested. It's care home staff who are tested on a weekly or a fortnightly basis, not residents. So, let's be clear about that too. It is quite important in this to be accurate in the way that we put these questions and discuss them.

So, we are in discussions, of course, with all local health bodies about the rate at which we test staff, and where there are symptomatic residents that residents are tested as well. The positivity rate of staff tested in Welsh care homes over this summer was 0.12 per cent. It was absolutely fractional, and it's important to be proportionate, as I believe your health Secretary Matt Hancock has been preaching all morning, about the way we use the scarce resource that tests represent.

The difficulties that we face in care home testing in Wales are because we switched care home testing to the lighthouse laboratories provided by the UK Government. I'm sorry that some care homes are losing confidence in that system and suggesting that they wouldn't be prepared to take part in it. We will look to see whether we need to switch capacity back into the Welsh system in what I hope will be a short period while those lighthouse labs return to the very good service that they were providing in Wales, as elsewhere, only three weeks ago. But the temporary difficulties in care home testing, such as they are, are as a result of the difficulties that that system, that UK system, is experiencing, not because of difficulties in the Welsh testing system.

The point I was making, First Minister, is that it is important that you as a Government consult with the care home sector, because it's absolutely critical that the sector is being fully consulted on your testing policy, and I hope that you will reflect on your comments.

Now, one aspect of testing policy that could make a real difference in identifying possible threats is airport testing. Testing all people returning home from abroad will surely keep people safe. Now, the shadow Home Secretary, Nick Thomas-Symonds, called for a robust testing regime in airports as a way to minimise the need for the two-week isolation period upon return to the UK, and in a letter to the Home Secretary, he made it clear that ramped-up testing is an important part of trying to respond to the pandemic and safely reopen society. He also said,

'Given the huge challenges being faced by the travel sector and the scale of job losses, it makes sense to look at this area as part of a wider package of improvements to the testing regime.'

The shadow Home Secretary is right; I agree with him. Do you agree with him?

Well, Llywydd, we are in discussions with the airport in Cardiff to see if we can find a practical way in which airport testing itself could be carried out. There are some practical issues that have to be addressed in that, in terms of the length of time that people may have to wait at an airport, how long people would be prepared to wait at an airport—you can't require people to do these things; it's a matter of voluntary participation. Therefore, you have to spend a bit of time to make sure that, if you are able to provide tests at an airport, you can do it in a way that is effective, and those discussions with the airport authorities here in Cardiff are continuing.

Plaid Cymru leader, Adam Price.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. BMA Cymru Wales has warned that a second COVID peak is highly likely this winter, and is the No. 1 concern among the medical profession, as it is, I'm sure, for all of us. Could I urge the First Minister to give serious consideration to adopting elements of the 10-point winter plan that we published today, which is designed to avoid both a second wave and a second national lockdown? In particular, could I ask that the First Minister examines the case for introducing, whenever possible, the targeted approach adopted by some countries based around smart lockdowns focused on high infection spikes at a community or neighbourhood level, rather than lockdowns across a whole local authority area?

I thank Adam Price for that question, Llywydd, and I'm looking forward to having a chance to look properly at the 10-point plan. Any constructive contributions to ways in which we can better approach the winter are welcome. I know that he will have seen the winter protection plan that the Welsh Government has published today, and there's a lot of overlap between the ideas. So I'm very keen to look constructively at those ideas.

In many ways, the idea of a smart or targeted approach can be seen in the way in which our TTP system responded, for example, to the Rowan Foods outbreak in Wrexham, where we didn't need to have borough-wide restrictions on people's liberties: we were able to focus on the people who worked at that plant and their immediate contacts. The requirement to self-isolate, the advice that was given to that particular group in the population, could be, I think, fairly regarded as an example of a smart lockdown, as those people were in isolation for 14 days. The more we are able to target our interventions so that they respond to the nature of the problem we have in front of us, and don't restrict therefore the lives of people who are not directly caught up in that, the better I think we will command public confidence when those measures need to be taken.

The forecasting team at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine are reporting currently their estimate, as of 11 September, of the R figure for Wales as being 1.43, which would put Wales as having the highest rate of growth currently in the UK and a doubling time of just over six days. Do you recognise those estimates, First Minister? If not, what are the Welsh Government's latest estimates? Given the growing urgency of the situation and the difficulties that you referred to earlier in terms of the UK lighthouse lab system, is it possible to bring that new network of hot lab facilities being planned in Wales on-stream earlier than November? As capacity grows, can we look at testing asymptomatic contacts as many countries, including the United States, have now begun to do?

Llywydd, I thank Adam Price again for those questions. The technical advisory cell summary published, I think, today, suggests that the R level in Wales is above 1. I don't think we would sign up to a figure as precise as 1.43. The problem with the R figure for the whole of Wales is that it is inevitably affected by the south-east corner of Wales, where we have seen such spikes in the last week or so. There are whole parts of Wales, Llywydd, where numbers are still very effectively suppressed, and an R level of 1.43 would not be a reflection of the circulation of the virus in those parts of Wales. So, a single figure for Wales at the moment is particularly affected by what we have seen in Caerphilly, in RCT and more latterly in Newport. Nevertheless, the TAC summary does suggest that the rate has crept back above 1 in Wales, and it's why we took the measures that we did on Friday of last week, to respond on a Wales-wide basis to that emerging picture.

The £32 million investment that my colleague Vaughan Gething announced on 18 August, Llywydd, will mean 24-hour working in labs in Swansea, in Cardiff and in Rhyl in October, and hot lab capacity more widely in Wales—at the moment in November. If we can, of course, draw it forward, we will want to do that. The investment is both a matter of capital investment but also employing more staff in those laboratories. We had 3,000 applications for the 160 jobs that will be recruited, and interviews for those posts began yesterday. So the sooner we are able to get those people in post, the sooner we will be able to get that lab capacity in active operation here in Wales. And when we have more capacity in that way, we will be able to think again about who we test, when we test them, including—I'm not suggesting that we've made that decision at all, but it will allow us to consider the issue of asymptomatic testing in a different way. 

In six weeks' time, the UK Government's furlough scheme will end, and the looming cliff edge will leave thousands of workers facing the crippling uncertainty of unemployment. If a further rise in COVID cases means local lockdowns will have to be imposed in other areas over the coming months, and if the UK Government does not act, does the Welsh Government have a contingency plan to offer a local furlough, effectively, as well as financial support to businesses and local public services in the affected areas, as well as those unable to earn because they are self-isolating? I'm sure the First Minister would agree that it would be absolutely wrong to penalise people simply for being ill. 

I entirely agree with that point, Llywydd, and it's been made repeatedly by me, by Vaughan Gething, by the First Minister of Scotland in a call where I joined with her, and, indeed, the First Minister of Northern Ireland in calling on the UK Government not to bring the furlough scheme to a blunt end—to recalibrate it, to recast it and to add to it an ability to support the wages of those people who we are asking to self-isolate for 14 days. At the moment, there is a perverse incentive for those people who work on very low wages to go into work when you're not feeling well, because otherwise you have to rely on £95-worth of sick pay every week. A simple scheme in which the UK Government itself guaranteed the normal wage level of those people, or indeed did it in partnership with employers, would eliminate that perverse incentive. I think it would increase compliance with the rules that keep us all safe and would be a sensible investment by the UK Government, because you will be, in the way we often talk about in this Chamber, acting preventatively rather than having to pick up the costs that follow when that person does go into work, infects other people, leads to greater demand on public services and firms having to stop production, and so on. 

My colleague Ken Skates is at the moment working on the third phase of the economic resilience fund here in Wales. Part of that consideration is the help that we can give to firms who find themselves caught up in local lockdowns here in Wales in future. Will our budget stretch to the income maintenance of people who are affected by the end of the furlough scheme or who need to self-isolate? I'm afraid we're simply not resourced to do that. Income maintenance is not a devolved function to the Welsh Government. Funds don't flow to us from the UK Government to support that, and it's much harder to see how we would be able, in an affordable way, to devise a scheme of the sort that Adam Price rightly draws attention to but that is equally rightly the responsibility of the UK Government to put in place. 

Leader of the Brexit Party, Mark Reckless. 

First Minister, given the legal requirement to inform the Information Commissioner within 72 hours, and his guidance to inform those affected without undue delay, did you and/or Public Health Wales sit, I believe, for around two weeks on news of this major data leak?

Could I also ask you to clarify your version of the rule of six, which you insist must be different from England's? Why say that these six must be of the same extended household, formed of up to four households, not including children, but then that these four households, although forming an extended household, may not all meet at once if more than six?

Could I also remind you that you previously said that there was only a marginal public health case for non-medical face coverings? Your health Minister said that the Chief Medical Officer for Wales thinks that masks should be a matter of personal choice. What new evidence have you seen to remove that personal choice from people?

Llywydd, the rule of six I don't think is very difficult to follow. What we know is that coronavirus is being passed by people meeting inside each other's houses. That is what lies behind the transmission in Caerphilly. That is what lies behind the transmission in many parts of England. And in order to try to bring the position back under control, what we are proposing in Wales is that no more than six people should meet indoors at any one time; it limits the chain of transmission. It really is as simple as that. And when chains of transmission are driving up figures of people suffering from coronavirus in significant parts of Wales, and doing so quite alarmingly, then it is very important that the Government act to bring that back under control.

We have a more liberal regime here in Wales than elsewhere because four households are able to form a single extended household, and that itself provides an umbrella which helps to disrupt chains of transmission, but no more than six of those people should meet at any one time. We will allow primary school aged children to be part of that household beyond the six because of the evidence that those children don't suffer from coronavirus and don't transmit coronavirus in the way that adults do. It's a proportionate attempt to try not to interfere in people's freedoms more than the minimum necessary, but to do the minimum necessary in order to address the escalating numbers of coronavirus that we see in too many parts of Wales. 

As far as face coverings are concerned, in our local lockdown plan, again published in the middle of August, Llywydd, we said that if the circulation of the virus in Wales moved beyond a certain threshold, we would revisit our advice on face coverings. At the end of last week, the rate in Wales went to 20 per 100,000 of the population, and has remained above 20 ever since. Twenty is the figure we use to identify foreign countries where if you've been abroad and you have to return to the United Kingdom, you have to self-isolate. It seemed to me to be again a proportionate way of marking that unfortunate threshold that we should ask people in Wales to do that marginal thing, because when you get to circulation of the virus at that level, marginal bits of help that assist us all in keeping it under control and driving it down become worthwhile. 

In Sweden, there was no lockdown, as we've discussed before, First Minister, and there has to date been no significant resurgence in the virus; indeed, we've just lifted travel restrictions on Sweden. Yet in Spain, where there was a very severe lockdown, we're seeing a large resurgence of the virus. What then is the reasoning behind the Welsh Government's strategy of keeping people locked down throughout summer when people's immune systems are at that strongest, and when NHS capacity is at its greatest, only to delay increasing infections until we are going into winter? You've locked down my constituents in the Caerphilly council area, and even talked about the possibility of curfews and restrictions on alcohol sales as potential measures you may consider. Having taken people's summer away only for cases to rise again, do you accept that lockdown fatigue has taken hold and that you cannot keep people locked down forever? How much longer do you expect to drag out this pandemic in Wales through your restrictions? 

Well, Llywydd, the Member often appears to occupy a world that many of the rest of us don't occupy, but now he appears to have a different season in his clock as well. Wales was not locked down during the summer. Our tourism industry has resumed, our 'stay local' restrictions have been lifted, people have been able to meet in the outdoors, people have been able to meet indoors. It's absolutely nonsensical to say that the summer was lost here in Wales. What has really happened in Wales is that some people, a minority of people in Wales, have taken the summer as a sign that coronavirus was over, and the fact that they have been able to do so much more than they were previously has been read by them as a licence to do even more than was permitted, and we are seeing the results. We are seeing the results in the lives of people who are now suffering from this disease, and I'm afraid that we will see over the weeks to come the impact of that in people being admitted to hospital and calling on our intensive care unit beds again. So, very far from the Welsh Government denying people freedoms that they should have experienced, we have done our very best to restore freedoms whenever it has been safe to do so, and I am saddened by the fact that, at the moment, we are faced with a position where the Welsh experience of coronavirus, instead of improving, is worsening. We may all have to make those efforts again that we made earlier this year unless we are able to persuade all of those people—in the Member's constituency and otherwise—to act in a way that protects themselves, protects others and helps us all to keep Wales safe.

Llywydd, the coronavirus crisis has been especially challenging for autistic people. Working with others, the Welsh Government has focused on practical help and specific guidance for those affected. Last month, for example, and jointly with the National Autistic Society, we published advice on face coverings for autistic people on public transport. 

The 'Left stranded' report published last week by the National Autistic Society and its partners shows that as well as significantly exacerbating long-established challenges autistic people face getting suitable social care and educational support, the coronavirus pandemic has had a severely detrimental impact on the mental health of autistic people and their families. How, therefore, will you respond to the report's call for the Welsh Government to: create an action plan to protect autistic people and their families in case of a second wave; prioritise the development of the code of practice on the delivery of autism services; strengthen the legal rights of autistic people and their families in Wales accordingly; publish the additional learning needs code ahead of moving to the new support system next year; and implement the commitment that all teachers receive mandatory autism training as part of their initial teacher education, alongside rolling out a public awareness campaign on autism, as is happening elsewhere in the UK? 

Llywydd, can I thank Mark Isherwood for drawing attention to the 'Left stranded' report, an important report? I know that the Member wrote yesterday to both the health and education Ministers drawing their attention to it.

As Mark Isherwood has said, there are three specific recommendations in the report for the Welsh Government. The first is to develop a code of practice on the delivery of autism services, and the Minister for Health and Social Services will issue a written statement shortly, before the end of this month, setting out the timetables for consultation and publication of the code.

The second recommendation was for the publication of the additional learning needs code and the implementation of it in 2021, and on 3 September the Minister for Education announced that the code and the regulations will be laid before the Senedd in February of next year, and that that will, indeed, allow the commencement of the Act and the phased roll out of it from September 2021.

The third recommendation concerns the national awareness campaign to which the Member drew attention, and our national autistic team and others—including those working in the field of initial teacher training—are working together to raise public awareness of autism in the community as a key theme of our implementation plans.  

First Minister, you mentioned in your response to Mark Isherwood the code of practice around face coverings for autistic people, and you'll be very aware, I know, that as well as autistic people finding it sometimes difficult to wear a face mask, they can also find it difficult to communicate with somebody who is wearing a face mask, and the same would be true, for example, of deaf people who may need to lip read. Can you confirm this afternoon, First Minister—and I'm asking you this question in the context of a constituent who had an issue with this—that if a member of the public, an autistic person or a person with deafness issues, requests a member of staff in a shop to remove their face covering so that that deaf person or autistic person can more effectively communicate with them, that it is acceptable for the member of staff to do that, providing it is possible to maintain the 2m social distancing? My constituent's experience suggests that there may be some confusion on the part of shop staff in this regard.

Llywydd, I thank Helen Mary Jones for that. I confirm that in the circumstances she has described it would be acceptable, but we do know that there is quite a lot of learning that the system has to absorb. It was one of the hesitations that the chief medical officer has always expressed about compulsory use of face coverings, that there have to be exceptions and we have to be sensitive to those people who for different reasons do not find the wearing of a face covering themselves possible or who find it difficult when others wear them. We will use all the exceptions that we put into place when face coverings were made compulsory on public transport in the new areas that we have made them compulsory as from Monday of this week, and there will, I'm afraid, be a short period in which sensitivity to some of these issues will have to be developed amongst people who haven't had to operate in this way up until now.

I thank Carwyn Jones for that question, Llywydd. The performance of our test, trace, protect service is a credit to our health boards and local authorities and has secured strong support from people across Wales. Since 21 June, 98 per cent of positive cases and 94 per cent of their close contacts have been successfully contacted and advised.

I thank the First Minister for his answer. There have been some instances of people waiting for results, of course, where they've sought tests. Now, will the First Minister give an assurance that the Welsh Government is doing all that it can to make sure that, as it's done with test, trace and protect, it's working hard to ensure that results are made available in good time to those who need the results?

Again, I thank the Member for that supplementary question and agree with him, of course, about the importance of timely responses to tests that have been conducted. As I said in an answer to an earlier question, Llywydd, the difficulties that are being experienced in Wales at the moment are the result of the well-identified difficulties in the lighthouse lab system, a system that was working very successfully only three weeks ago and which we very much want to see being successful again as rapidly as that is possible. The UK Minister responsible says to us that within three weeks that system will be properly back on track and providing timely results to people in Wales and beyond.

In the meantime, our own laboratories continue, I think, to provide timely results: 91 per cent, for example, of hospital tests done at Public Health Wales labs are returned within 24 hours. And what we are trying to do with our own capacity is to use the most rapid results where those results are needed in that fashion. So, I think I may have said already, Llywydd—apologies if I did—that around 99 per cent of tests carried out in the community in Caerphilly are being returned within 24 hours. We need the lighthouse labs to be back operating as they were a short number of weeks ago in order to provide the same service to those parts of the system in Wales who depend upon those laboratories as well as our own.

First Minister, obviously any test and trace system requires confidence in the sharing of information. You've been asked twice this afternoon about the data breach that occurred in Public Health Wales—a substantial data breach. On the one question that was put to you, you were asked, 'When did the Government get alerted to the fact that this data had gone in to the public domain?' You failed to answer that question, so could you respond to my question, please, by providing an answer: when was the Welsh Government—not yourself, the Welsh Government—informed of this data breach and who in the Welsh Government was the first point of contact in the ministerial ranks to be alerted to the fact that 18,000 names had been put in the public domain?

Well, Llywydd, I gave an answer that was within my knowledge. I know when I was informed. I don't know the answer to those other questions, nor would I expect to know them just standing up here in the Chamber. We will discover those answers, of course, and I'm very happy to communicate them to the Member.

It's clear to me that something catastrophic has gone wrong with the testing system in the past fortnight, not just sluggishness in getting results back. Constituents of mine and people in other parts of Wales simply can't access the home test at all. They're having difficulties phoning 911. They can't get a slot in the local drive-through centre, which is far too far away for many people in any case. I agree entirely with independent SAGE scientist who have said for months that there's a real risk in the Welsh Government deciding to put its faith in a system that was run by the UK Government, and that what was needed was to develop a specifically Welsh testing system. Do you see now that putting your faith in the UK system was a mistake, and what we need now as a matter of urgency is to increase capacity here in Wales, capacity that you as a Government have control over?

I agree with the Member that the problems in the lighthouse labs are serious and it's important that the UK Government addresses those problems as quickly as possible. I do not agree at all with him when he said, as part of the independence that Plaid Cymru are forever suggesting, that the best way would be to be totally independent in this field and not to use the capacity that already existed throughout the whole of the United Kingdom. The Scottish Executive hasn't done that at all, and it didn't make any sense for us to do it either. And to be honest, here on the floor of the Senedd, people were saying to me, 'Why aren't you using the capacity that's already available in other systems?' And so we have used that capacity, and until three weeks ago, that system worked well. The challenge now is to do the work on a UK level to put the lighthouse labs back to where they were in August, and that's what we want to support.

Llywydd, the start of last week saw a significant increase of coronavirus cases in the Caerphilly Borough County Council area, in absolute terms and as a proportion of people tested. On 8 September, following a request by public authorities, Ministers introduced measures to control the virus and to protect public health.

I thank the First Minister for his answer. When the lockdown was announced last week, it threw many residents in Caerphilly into confusion, and I was inundated with messages from people who are anxious to find out what effect it would have on their circumstances. It took nearly 24 hours before guidance was published clarifying where the parents who shared custody of their children and live on either side of the county border could see their children, whether bereaved family members could attend funerals and whether people who were shielding earlier in the year would be asked to do so again. That was 24 hours of unnecessary distress and angst that could have been avoided if the guidelines had been published at the same time as the announcement. Now that areas like Newport and Merthyr and also possibly facing lockdowns, would you, First Minister, please provide a guarantee that detailed guidelines will in future be published as soon as any lockdowns are announced, and that any changes to guidelines are communicated in advance of implementation, so that people are given time to prepare?

Llywydd, I think the question completely fails to understand the context in which such decisions are made. They are not made at a leisurely pace. They're not made with an opportunity to put every dot and comma in its place before they are announced. You are dealing with a public health emergency. You are dealing with a situation in which a day's delay can put more people's lives at risk. And I say to the Member that her constituents and those who I know have contacted the Member for Caerphilly, Hefin David, are a good deal more understanding than she appears to be of the fact that the Welsh Government took action immediately we were asked to do so by those public authorities, and, within 24 hours, every bit of guidance that was necessary to help people to deal with the changed circumstances was available to them. Now, we wish to get that guidance to people as fast as we possibly can, but the sequence of events cannot be to provide guidance and then to announce when you're faced with an emergency, and you are faced with advice from people on the ground that action needs to be taken as fast as possible in order to protect people's lives—you take the actions first and then as fast as you can you provide the guidance to go alongside it. That is what we did in Caerphilly, and that is what of course we will aim to do should any similar situations arise in any other parts of Wales. And the people of Caerphilly, who have co-operated fantastically with the restrictions that have been put in place since, I think show a great deal more sense than the Member gives them credit for.

As a resident of the Caerphilly constituency, I've seen at first hand the sacrifices that people are making in complying with the restrictions in which we're living under, which were very clear in the outset, but have led to some questions from residents with specific scenarios. One I've been dealing with are people who've been required to cancel holidays, pre-booked holidays, and I have to say the travel industry has not responded well, particularly with regard to refunds, although there has been some scope for rebooking. And I have to say EasyJet and Ryanair have been particular standout examples of companies that seem to care little for the health and well-being and, indeed, legal obligations of their passengers, and that has been very disappointing. 

The Welsh Government has done the right thing by writing to the travel industry and the insurance industry with very clear instructions for them, and what they need to do to respond to people to meet their legal obligations. The UK Government too now needs to step up and provide support for people who are affected by these circumstances—for those affected passengers. So, can I ask the First Minister has he had a response from the travel industry and the insurance industry; when does he expect to get that response if he hasn't had it so far; and would he also call on the UK Government to take immediate action for those passengers affected?

Llywydd, can I begin by thanking the Member and his staff for the enormous efforts I know they have made over the last week to respond to literally thousands of enquiries from Caerphilly residents, and for the way that he has taken up issues of this sort on their behalf? He's right, of course, that Vaughan Gething and Lee Waters wrote ministerially to the association of British travel agents and of British insurers back on 10 September; they said in the letter that it's incumbent on the travel and insurance industries to take the necessary steps to mitigate the financial impact of restrictions on members of the travelling public whose travel plans have been disrupted. We are yet to receive a reply to that letter. My colleague Ken Skates will chair a quadrilateral meeting of Ministers later this week who have responsibilities in these areas, and he will certainly be raising these matters with the UK Government as well, because these impacts are not confined to Wales, Llywydd. There are people in many other parts of the United Kingdom who find restrictions imposed locally that have an impact on their ability to fulfil travel plans, but it is not their fault at all that they're in that position, and the industry needs to respond accordingly. 

Thank you very much, Dai Lloyd. The council tax base for Wales is more up-to-date and accurate than is the case in England and Scotland. The Welsh Government will publish a document discussing a range of alternative approaches to council taxation in Wales later in the autumn, including rebanding. 

Thank you very much for that.

First Minister, you'll be aware that if a property has been improved or extended since it was placed in a council tax band, the Valuation Office Agency review the banding to take account of the alterations when it's sold. However, it is clear that there are problems with the system, with delays experienced in informing residents of changes. Now, constituents of mine last month found out that their council tax banding had jumped two bands, and are now being asked to pay the additional council tax—around £1,000—backdated to when the property was bought, in November 2018. Now, do you agree that this is unfair and will you agree to look into changing the guidance around the backdating of council tax payments in these circumstances?

Well, Llywydd, can I thank Dr Lloyd for raising this concerning issue? I've seen, as it happens, the letter that he wrote on 7 September to Julie James, and I've asked Welsh Government officials to contact him direct, if he's happy for that to happen, just to find out a few more details of the cases that lie behind the letter, so we can pursue them properly. The information I have is that there is less discretion than in other areas of council tax liability in the law in relation to the sort of rebanding to which Dr Lloyd's letter refers. There is a free appeals process for anybody who feels that the system has not been fairly implemented, and that is to the valuation tribunal. But the points that the Member raises are concerning ones, and, with his permission, we'll pursue them in more detail with him directly, so that we can see whether there is anything we can do to assist. 

Finally, Janet Finch-Saunders. Who I can't see—

Caroline Jones is next.

Yes. I was calling a supplementary—you stick to your job; I'll stick to mine. [Laughter.] That was very kindly meant, and that's your questions for this afternoon complete, First Minister. Sorry to tell you off right at the end. 

Questions next to the Deputy Minister and Chief Whip, and the first question is from Darren Millar.

I recognise and support the freedom to hold and practise belief in Wales. I'm pleased to have worked with the Wales faith communities forum and the reopening places of worship task and finish group to support the phased and safe reopening of places of worship.

Thank you for that answer, Deputy Minister. One of the issues that has been raised with me by members of various faith communities, but particularly the Christian community, is the impact of the restrictions on the ability to worship through song in our churches at the moment, for congregational singing. I don't know whether you are familiar with recent research, which was published by the University of Bristol, which seems to suggest that singing doesn't produce substantially more respiratory particles than speaking at a similar volume. Therefore, will you look again at the current coronavirus restrictions in relation to worship in churches, and the ability of congregations to sing as part of their worship, and consider that piece of research in order to assist your decision?

Thank you very much, Darren Millar, for that supplementary question. I would say at the outset that the Welsh Government is very grateful to our Wales faith communities forum, and you're well aware of the full and diverse membership of that, and their advice and guidance they've given us—they have a task and finish group—advice and guidance they've given us on reopening places of worship. And they have reopened on a safe basis, in terms of their advice, guidance and the science. But I am very well aware that music and singing are an important part of services and ceremonies. It's greatly missed, and we're actively looking at this, based on scientific advice again, and the guidance from the task and finish and ceremonies group. I hope we'll able to make further announcements. 

Through working with partner organisations across the UK, our delivery of awareness raising, accredited training, and through improved intelligence gathering to support criminal investigations and support for victims, the Welsh Government is at the forefront of the fight against these appalling crimes. 

Thank you, Deputy Minister. The anti-slavery charity, Unseen UK, has warned that, due to the economic downturn due to the current crisis, we are likely to see an increase in human trafficking—the two things normally going hand in hand. Will the Deputy Minister assure me that she will take action to try and prevent this, to raise awareness of and recognition of the signs of modern slavery?

I would thank again the Member for that additional question, because it is vital that we recognise that this can be an issue in terms of the adverse impact of COVID-19, which could lead to an increase in trafficking. What's very important—. As I've said, it's about co-ordinated action. The response to slavery in Wales was bolstered, as, of course, we know, by the appointment of the Welsh Government anti-slavery co-ordinator, who's working actively with key agencies to determine scale, types and location of slavery in Wales, but also improving that intelligence and recording of incidents in Wales, very much working with the UK Government using the national referral mechanism and looking at that in terms of the impact of COVID-19.

Further to the previous question, we're seeing data published in June showing that, for the first time, Minister, since 2016, the reports of suspected modern slavery in the UK were down by 14 per cent, and this is raising the worry that it's actually that victims are being pushed further out of sight and away from seeking help. So, can I ask our Welsh Government to make formal representations to UK Ministers, to first of all give the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority the resources to do their job, as they are at full stretch already, and also to urge UK Ministers to speed up the national referral mechanisms for victims to access care from housing and healthcare to legal aid, because this is a process that can currently take from six weeks to, indeed, several years? Thank you, Minister.

Thank you to Huw Irranca-Davies. Following on that important point about the impact of the pandemic, and just to add to the points that I made earlier on, we are continuing to work with our partners in the National Crime Agency, police, Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority, but also including all those non-governmental organisations and charities, such as BAWSO, New Pathways and Barnardo's in Wales, raising awareness of slavery, dealing with any incidents that are reported, rescuing and supporting victims where possible. And I think the interesting issue is that reports across Wales have remained consistent. We're in regular contact with the Home Office modern slavery unit, and they are actually now reviewing the national referral mechanism process. And I think your point about access to legal aid is crucial. And we have to recognise, of course, that modern slavery is a reserved matter, and the Home Office will be, obviously, crucially important to take these messages back in terms of the impact of the pandemic, so that we can be aware of and tackle trafficking.

As the Chamber will know, I have raised these issues a number of times since being elected to the Senedd. Yet despite the many calls from across the Chamber to investigate the practices employed in particular in car washes, there appears to be absolutely no action taken with regard to these establishments. This is particularly disappointing given that a number of issues are present with regard to their operation—the long hours served by attendants, often 10 hours a day, seven days a week; the low pay, said to be around £3 per hour; the sub-standard accommodation for these workers; the propensity for money laundering, given that all transactions appear to be cash, often to many thousands of pounds per week; the low pay, said to be around—sorry, to the environmental issues, with the considerable volumes of effluent generated at these sites going directly into water drainage systems and hence the rivers; but, of course, worst of all, the clear exploitation of people working on these sites. One has to ask, Deputy Minister, why nothing has been done to investigate or even close these operations, although they have been in existence for over a decade.

Well, I will acknowledge that David Rowlands has mentioned this more than once in this Chamber. I'd just like to briefly, in terms of employment, refer to the ethical employment in supply chains code of practice, which was launched in 2017, aimed at making supply chains transparent, but also preventing exploitation of workers. And it was actually a first for Wales and the UK, and over 200 organisations have signed up to the code of practice, with the majority of Welsh public sector bodies signed up too. But I would also like to pay tribute to Joyce Watson with her cross-party group on human trafficking, if I don't get the opportunity again this afternoon. 

Minister, acts of modern slavery are becoming a scary reality for the many and this crime is often very difficult to spot. One simple question from me: the Home Office have got a real part to play in this, but what can the Welsh Government do to stop this being a hidden crime?

Well, until recently, I would say that slavery was a hidden crime. It's still under-reported and these questions and concerns have been raised this afternoon. And that's why we introduced new data collection systems in Wales and we continue to work with partners to develop that better evidence base—Huw Irranca-Davies referred to that as well—that more accurately reflects the level of slavery in Wales so that we can tackle it. 

The socioeconomic duty will come into force on 31 March 2021. We're working closely with public bodies to prepare for the duty and, earlier this year, we co-produced guidance, and further resources to guide public bodies will be published shortly. 

Deputy Minister, thank you very much for that answer and that very progressive step that's being taken. You'll know that, historically, girls and women have traditionally been less likely in schools and education institutions to take up the STEM subjects—the science, the technology, engineering and maths. And you yourself have very much been a staunch advocate of actually repairing that inequality gap that has existed. Now, during the COVID crisis, what we have seen is the incredible number of female scientists who have really been at the forefront of research and innovation. I'm wondering what ideas Welsh Government might have to use that as an example for actually motivating and promoting the increased take-up amongst girls, amongst women, of the STEM subjects for the future. 

Well, I thank Mick Antoniw for raising that and drawing our attention—because we've all seen it—to the incredible contribution made by those women scientists. Of course, the global pandemic has highlighted the vital role that STEM plays in the world today. We've never had more STEM professionals, scientists, in the public eye as we've had in recent months.

But I'm very pleased to chair the women in STEM board. We're meeting on 15 October. The effect of the pandemic will certainly be discussed and, in fact, we will look at that in terms of that increased profile of female scientists in terms of the appeal and relevance of STEM subjects. And that will be very important, I think, in terms of impact on our new Curriculum and Assessment (Wales) Bill going through, now, the Welsh Parliament, but considering how that can reach more girls and students from disadvantaged backgrounds and, of course, seeing this as an intersectional issue as well as the diversity that we want to seek in the delivery of STEM science and delivery of STEM professionalism and expertise. 

The First Minister has been clear that the Welsh Government will put equality and human rights considerations at the centre of the response to the pandemic and recovery in Wales. This will be the guiding principle as we take forward key policy developments over the coming months.

Minister, those living in our more deprived communities have suffered disproportionately during the pandemic in terms of their health, economically and socially, and one aspect of this is higher rates of smoking in these communities—those are significant for vulnerability to the virus but also in terms of lower life expectancy generally. Thankfully, smoking is in decline, with restrictions in public places playing an important part in helping to achieve that. But, nonetheless, the terrible toll on health in Wales continues. So, Minister, would Welsh Government consider extending the existing restrictions, including outdoor areas of cafes and restaurants, which I think is particularly significant now during the pandemic, as those outdoor areas are expanding and growing, and also in relation to events, youth sport events, so that there may be restrictions on smoking at and around those?

Well, thank you, John Griffiths, for drawing attention to the role of smoking in health inequalities. Just to say that ensuring that the health inequity caused by smoking is reduced—that is a priority for this Welsh Government. You've referred to areas where we could widen the ban on smoking. Clearly, our immediate plan is to introduce a ban on smoking, as all Members are aware, in public playgrounds, school grounds and in hospital grounds. But, we are committed to our long-term goal of making more of Wales's public spaces smoke free and helping people to make positive changes to their health and well-being, and we intend to progress work in the next Senedd term to extend the smoking ban to outdoor areas of cafes and restaurants and city and town centres.

Policies to create a more equal Wales should be implemented in consultation with local authorities and local communities, and this is especially the case in plans for Wales to play its part in global efforts to support refugees. However, reports that a military training camp in Pembrokeshire will be used to house 250 refugees, with little or no consultation with the local authority prior to the UK Home Office's decision becoming public, are clearly very concerning. Can the Minister tell us whether the Welsh Government was consulted, and does the Minister agree with me that people seeking asylum should be housed safely and supported in communities, and not detained on a military base?

Well, I thank Leanne Wood very much for raising that question this afternoon in the Senedd. We were only notified of the Home Office proposals on Friday. We are yet to receive the full explanation that we have requested. The Welsh Government is committed to being a nation of sanctuary. We are committed to that, but we need to ensure that the needs of asylum seekers who come to us—and that's, of course, through our refugee and asylum seeking coalition, which I chair—that those needs are met, and are fully met and understood in terms of opportunities for people to integrate and settle. We are working with all relevant partners now to ensure that these concerns are addressed, in terms of this proposal that came forward on Friday. That obviously has to include local authorities and the communities affected, but what's crucial is that public health issues are considered at the forefront in terms of the impact of the pandemic.

Question 5, Rhianon Passmore.

Can you unmute yourself, Rhianon Passmore?

That question has been withdrawn, Llywydd.

Okay, you don't choose to ask the question that's on the order paper.

Question 6, therefore, Mike Hedges. 

Volunteers across Wales continue to play a vital role in enabling people to stay safe throughout the COVID-19 pandemic. In order to support voluntary groups, including those working with the deaf community, £11 million has been made available through our third sector resilience fund.

I thank the Minister for that response. For the record, my sister is profoundly deaf, and I am also president of the Swansea Hard of Hearing Group. COVID has had a serious effect on the deaf community, as masks stop the ability of deaf people to lip-read, or even know that somebody is talking to them. What is being done to promote sign language and sign language interpreters to support the deaf community?

I thank Mike Hedges for that important question. Just to give examples of how we've targeted our funding: £1.1 million of support given to disability organisations, including the Cardiff Deaf Centre. The Welsh Government, of course, has ensured the presence of BSL interpretation at our COVID-19 news conferences, alongside a range of accessible formats on key correspondence through the pandemic, such as BSL videos for our Keep Wales Safe campaign.

But, we've also set up an accessible communications group, advising Welsh Government. The First Minister mentioned the fact we've had many meetings of the disability equality forum. We've also looked at the impact of face coverings, and, of course, that was mentioned earlier on in terms of the impact for autistic people.

So, it is crucial that we listen to the people who are impacted in terms of COVID-19 and ensure that we get that feedback, and then take action accordingly and raise awareness, as the First Minister said, because that's crucial for those who are encountering and engaging and supporting and enabling deaf people to participate fully in society, community and the workplace.

Almost half of local authority sites have at least some form of internet access. My officials are working with local authorities to identify sites without adequate broadband infrastructure and agree funding for projects that enable internet connectivity on sites, at up to 100 per cent of eligible costs.

So, from what you're saying, Minister, I gather that half the Gypsy and Traveller sites have no broadband to enable pupils to be able to access the curriculum in the event that they're unable to attend school because of further lockdowns. What conversations have you had with the local government Minister, and indeed the education Minister, to ensure that this is a top priority for local authorities, given that your department has made money available specifically for this purpose? It's disappointing that this work hasn't been carried out over the summer once the lockdown restrictions were relaxed. So, I'd be very grateful if it would be possible to publish the sites that still do not have any broadband whatsoever.

Thank you to Jenny Rathbone, and I also acknowledge that Jenny Rathbone chairs the Gypsy/Traveller/Roma cross-party group, which has an important influence on listening as well as working with those who are impacted. We do indeed meet with those who are supporting and representing Gypsy/Roma/Travellers at the Wales race forum and, following advice and guidance from them in terms of barriers to internet access, I did write to the Minister for Education to ensure that local authorities are challenged and supported as well financially to improve outcomes for Gypsies, Roma and Travellers, particularly for the children and young people in terms of accessing that blended learning.

So, I think the issues now that we're working on—and I will report back, clearly, to the Senedd on this—is that we're asking local authorities—. They've got the money, 100 per cent funding. We're asking them to come forward. We want to know all forms of need in terms of internet access, including high-speed mobile data, site-wide Wi-Fi, and all those gaps that may exist, so that we can ensure those children and young people have access to learning, and indeed adults as well in terms of their life opportunities. 

Thank you, Deputy Minister.

The next item is the business statement and announcement. I call on the Trefnydd to make that statement—Rebecca Evans.

Diolch, Llywydd. There is one change to today's agenda: the Counsel General and Minister for European Transition will make a statement on the UK Government Internal Market Bill. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

As we're embarking on the scrutiny of the curriculum Bill, I think it would be helpful if we could have some clarity on protecting the existence of Welsh-medium schools. I know the education Minister, in recent exchanges about the requirement to opt out of English, has said that this is not about the medium of teaching, it's about subjects, but I think that prompts the question then about how schools are currently categorised and what protections are currently in place. I wonder if the education Minister, or Minister for Welsh language—because I'm not quite sure which one it is—could update the Senedd via a statement about work that's being done on the language categorisations of schools in, say, I don't know, maybe the last two years, in view of the strategy for 1 million Welsh speakers and of course the curriculum Bill, to see if there are any possible conflicts in that. Thank you.

Thank you to Suzy Davies for raising that this afternoon. In the first instance, I will have a conversation with both Ministers to better understand what might be the best way to update the Senedd on that particular issue. But, in any case, I'll ensure that you do get a written response to that.FootnoteLink

Some people who are exempt from wearing face masks are being challenged or refused entry into shops, and many small business owners in particular are telling me of the difficulties that they are facing policing the wearing of face masks. So, will the Government look into providing some sort of official means of proof for people to show if they're exempt from wearing a face mask?

I also wanted to say 'thank you and well done' to all the staff who stepped in at the last minute in the Rhondda after the UK Government decided to reduce the number of tests per day to just 60. I'm still getting people who say they have symptoms of COVID-19 but cannot get a test. Now, how can this happen in the Rhondda when we've been told that we're on the verge of a local lockdown? This failure could put lives at risk, it could help a second wave. So, could we have a statement outlining what alternative plans the Government have so that we're not at the mercy of Westminster for this crucial testing operation?

Thank you to Leanne Wood for raising those issues. On the second, which relates to the availability of COVID-19 tests, I would respectfully refer the Member to the comments made by the First Minister during First Minister's question earlier on this afternoon, because I do think that he addressed that specific issue in some depth.

On the issue of face masks, I do agree that it's absolutely important that there is a greater level of understanding that not everybody will be able to wear a face mask for a multitude of reasons, and I will ensure that I have a conversation with the health Minister to explore what more we can do to ensure that we do engender that atmosphere where people feel comfortable not wearing a mask if they can't do so because of a mental or physical reason, and that people have more understanding that there are people out there who might have a very, very good reason not to be wearing a face mask.

Minister, you'll have heard the exchange earlier between Darren Millar and the Deputy Minister on the issue of singing and worship in churches and chapels and elsewhere. It is an issue that is causing some great distress amongst people within the community. You may also have seen BBC Wales Today last week, where Beaufort male voice choir was practising in Ebbw Vale rugby club to avoid some of the difficulties that are faced in practising indoors. It is important that, as we move through these very, very difficult months, there are points of normality in people's lives that enable them to accept and abide by all the other regulations that we need to impose at different times. Would it be possible for the Government to look hard again at some of the evidence that is being produced to enable choirs to practise and singing to take place in places of worship, and also the situation of brass bands and others as well, to enable people, during the long winter months, to ensure that there are elements of normality in their lives?

The second issue I'd like to seek the Government's time for, in terms of a statement or debate, is that about access to public transport. With schools and colleges going back over the last few weeks, we have recognised that there are some significant difficulties with public transport, particularly, perhaps, in areas such as Blaenau Gwent, where people have not been able to get to local colleges easily and where people are not able to access public services easily because of the difficulties with mainly bus services.

The Grange University Hospital will be opened in November and we all very much welcome this enormous investment in our local health service, but we need to ensure that there are public transport routes and public transport services enabling people to reach that hospital, whether it's for treatment or for visiting when that will be possible. So, access to services through public transport continues to be a very major issue and I'd be grateful if the Government could make a statement on that.

Thank you to Alun Davies for raising these issues. I know that he is a passionate supporter—even the president, maybe, I think—of Beaufort male voice choir. And I obviously declare an interest, as the Member for Gower, given the fact that we also have some of the best male voice choirs and brass bands in the world in that constituency too. So, yes, I do give that commitment that we will continue to keep that evidence under review, because we recognise the true value that being a member of a brass band or a choir has. And, of course, I see Mick Antoniw, the famous supporter of the Cory Band, also in the Chamber this afternoon. So, we've got lots of rivalry about our local brass bands and it just shows how passionate we are about them. So, yes, absolutely, we will continue to keep that advice under review as the evidence continues to develop.

And I do know that it is the intention of the Minister for the economy to bring forward a statement on buses very shortly, and you'll see that added to the business statement before too long.

Unmute, right. I call for a Welsh Government statement on the approval and distribution of clear face masks in Wales. Action on Hearing Loss Cymru has highlighted the disproportionate effect on people who are deaf or have hearing loss of face mask use during the coronavirus pandemic, where inaccessible communication can also present a safety risk. Visual cues, such as facial expression and lip reading, are essential for communication, but personal protective equipment in health and social care settings is masking these visual cues.

Now the UK Government has announced the approval and dissemination of a clear mask for use in health and social care settings in the UK, Action on Hearing Loss is seeking clarification from the Welsh Government on: what the allocation of the first clear masks will be for Wales; will the allocation cover both health and social care settings, including care homes; how will applicable third sector organisations, such as themselves, access a supply; and how will the Welsh Government ensure ongoing supply to meet demand? I call for a statement accordingly.

Thank you to Mark Isherwood for raising that, and I think this is the third time in this afternoon's session when we have explored the difficulties that people who are deaf, who have hearing loss are experiencing at the moment as a result of the usage of face masks. So, it is a really important issue and I will ensure that Action on Hearing Loss does have an answer to their particular questions about how those specially adapted masks will be distributed to ensure that they're distributed to people who most need them and who will most benefit from them.FootnoteLink

Minister, could we have a statement on the steps that the Government is taking to respond proactively to the housing crisis that we see in so many communities across Wales? It is a crisis, of course, driven mainly, but not only, by the fact that an increasing number of homes are now being bought as second homes or holiday accommodation. It's intensified also by the fact that more people are now moving out of cities and more populated areas to rural Wales in response to the pandemic.

Now, you heard in the Finance Committee yesterday that many Members felt that the Government should be making better use of its taxation powers in order to seek to address this issue. I would like to know what new steps the Government is considering to that end. But mainly, of course, we need to look at specific steps within the planning regime, and certainly we need to manage the ability to change the use from a residential property into a second home. There are examples of steps taken in other parts of the UK, in Cornwall specifically in terms of second homes. In Guernsey, in terms of the housing market, there is an open market and a closed market there, and there are examples across Europe and beyond of the kinds of things that the Government should now be considering.

So, I'd like to know what plans are in place by Government to respond to this crisis. Because we all know, of course, and we all recall what happened in the 1980s, and that was a direct result of the failure of politicians in addressing the problem. Now, nobody wants to see us back in that situation, of course, because if that were the case, then that would represent a grave failure from the point of view of the Welsh Government and a grave failure for the Senedd, and that would be an insult to devolution.

Well, of course, we've had excellent success over the course of this Senedd in terms of meeting our Welsh Government commitment to the people of Wales, that we would build 20,000 new affordable homes over the course of this Senedd. And I'm really pleased to be able to say that we are absolutely on course to have hit that target by the end of this Senedd term.

I recognise all of the issues that Llyr has described in terms of the pressures on the housing market, particularly in some parts of Wales, and I know that the Minister for housing is participating remotely this afternoon, but will have heard that request for a statement or a debate in order to explore those issues further. FootnoteLink

Trefnydd, tourism has been one of the sectors that have been actually badly affected by the pandemic, but yet tourism can also be one of the sectors that can drive our regeneration of the economy as we move forward. Now, with that in mind, obviously, we want to try and promote tourism and promote projects that develop tourism as much as possible. To that end, the Rhondda tunnel has actually always been one of those projects that could deliver on the tourism idea. I have raised this before in this Chamber, that the ownership of the tunnel has been one of the big stumbling blocks to the progression of the work there. Can I have a statement from the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales as to what progress has been made on the transfer of ownership from Highways England to the Welsh Government or to governments within Wales so that we can get on with the project, so that by the time we look at a situation where we really want to regenerate our economy in our Valleys, the project could actually be going ahead and that tunnel could be one of the things that attract people here?

Thank you to David Rees for raising that, and he knows that I share his enthusiasm for that particular project. Transport officials are currently in discussion with the Department for Transport on the terms of any potential transfer of the tunnel, as well as with Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council on the development of a business case for its future use. I think, as I understand it, one of the outstanding big issues, of course, is in terms of taking on an asset and taking on risk and what funding should come alongside with that, but that is something that I understand is currently continuing to be discussed. The Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport did meet with the council and the Rhondda Tunnel Society at the beginning of this month, and I know that future meetings are again being arranged to discuss the future management and that issue of the ownership of the tunnel. So, there's certainly continued work going on in this space, even though we've been facing a pandemic.

The residents of Victoria Wharf in Cardiff bought what they thought were their dream homes, but it turns out that they've bought into a nightmare. The properties are worthless now, they're unable to borrow off them, they're unable to sell them and there are real concerns about fire safety. These residents do not now sleep easily in their beds at night, and the blocks were signed off by Cardiff council and the developers. So, the statement that I would like off the Government is: what do they propose to do to help these residents in Cardiff, and not only in Cardiff, but all over Wales? There are people in awful predicaments, where it seems that these buildings are quite simply not safe. What will be done?

The Minister for Housing and Local Government has made it clear repeatedly that building owners and developers should face up to what is, essentially, a very strong moral responsibility and put right these faults at their cost or they do risk their professional reputation, because it's absolutely critical that people do feel safe and secure in their homes and we are committed to improving building safety here in Wales. I do know, again, that it is the intention of the Minister to provide the Senedd with an update in the not-too-distant future on the work that we've been doing in terms of that building safety programme in order to address the concerns that came to light following the tragic Grenfell fire.

Trefnydd, one of the consequences of COVID has been that many of us have been getting more exercise. We've been taking walks in some of the incredible and beautiful countryside that we have around us. I regularly now walk through the Coedely woods, through the Smaelog, and the reconnection with nature is really something that is perhaps one of the positives that have come out of this pandemic.

But alongside that is the appalling behaviour of a minority of people and the amount of fly-tipping, the amount of rubbish that is being dumped. I've been photographing this. At one stage, I couldn't walk more than a couple of metres without coming across fly-tipping. Rhondda Cynon Taf council has been tremendous at not only monitoring social media, but then going along and clearing this up, but, of course, at a cost to all those members of the public who don't engage in that sort of anti-social behaviour.

The point I make is this: Rhondda Cynon Taf have been very vigorous in prosecuting, there have been a number of prosecutions, but the fines are no deterrent. They're far less than the benefit the individual gets, and in no way reflect the cost to the council of having to clear up these sites. Now, I've written to the Counsel General on this point, but it seems to me it would be very helpful if there was a Government-time debate here where we talked about the legislation that exists, the penalties that exist, how the penalties have now got to relate to the cost of clearing up fly-tipping, and how we've got to campaign against this anti-social behaviour. Do you agree with me that now would be a good time to actually start talking about this, and to seriously look at the legislation to improve our ability to deter and to prosecute those who engage in this terrible anti-social behaviour?

I'd like to join Mick Antoniw in congratulating RCT on the work that they've been doing on this particular issue, and being very proactive in their response to it, because fly-tipping is never justified in any circumstances, and obviously during the COVID-19 lockdown we worked particularly closely with local authorities and businesses to ensure that the public were aware of their responsibility to store their waste safely until the sites reopened. We know that not everybody did that, and we have seen the results of that.

We're currently exploring options on how best to further assist those local authorities and Natural Resources Wales in their enforcement work. Obviously, this area involves both items that are devolved to us here in Wales—so, those environmental issues, for example—but there are also some issues to do with the reserved justice system. I can confirm that we will be pursuing this with the UK Government in the first instance, and I'll be very pleased to provide an update on those discussions. 

I thank the Trefnydd. 

We will now have a short break and will postpone broadcasting for the time being. 

[Inaudible.]—that short break, and with item 3 on our agenda this afternoon, which is a statement by the Minister for Education on schools reopening. I call on the Minister for Education, Kirsty Williams.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Colleagues, learners in Wales have been going back to nursery, schools and colleges over the last two weeks, and I want to thank them, teachers, tutors and all education staff for the way in which they have dealt with and, indeed, are still dealing with COVID-19. I want to thank them for their hard work, their resilience and their co-operation as we navigate our way through these most difficult of times.

Of course, I recognise that in any situation such as this, it is not without any risk. However, I continue to be guided by the latest medical and scientific advice in making any decision on the safe return of learners. My priorities throughout this pandemic have been the safety and well-being of staff and learners, whilst delivering maximum learning with minimal disruption to our young people.

I believe that going back to school is critical for children’s development and for their health and their well-being, especially those who are most vulnerable in our communities, and I'm grateful for the effort that schools, colleges, local authorities and trade unions have made to ensure that school and college environments are as safe as possible for all learners. These measures include increased cleaning, hygiene stations for staff and learners and reduced movement and contact between groups.

Wales’s technical advisory group were also clear that we must have a robust trace and protect strategy in place as a prerequisite for a wider reopening of schools. And as has been rehearsed earlier in the Chamber, this has been a real success story here in Wales, with not only a high number of contacts being traced within 24 hours, but also a clear approach to outbreak management, which will help support schools in moving forward.

Of course, our education and nursery settings may be fully open, but this is not going back to normal. For staff and learners alike it is a continuing challenge after so many months of distance learning, and the possibility of further spikes in cases and the disruption that that causes. This is a difficult time as education settings are still having to plan for different models of learning as well as managing contact and social distancing within their school environments. Therefore, along with the regions, we have provided guidance to ensure that learning and progression continues and remains safe.

It is very likely that time away from school has had a negative impact on many of our young people. They may need support to be ready to learn once again and to reintegrate into the school environment. We may see significant well-being challenges, over and above what we would normally expect at the start of a new academic year. Key areas of learning may have been lost during the time away from school and schools will need flexibility to address these issues. I want schools and other settings to be able to respond to this and invest time in supporting learners’ well-being. We cannot expect schools to execute all of their duties in respect of our curriculum for all learners in all circumstances, given circumstances we all face, and therefore I have decided to modify the basic curriculum and associated assessment requirements to a 'reasonable endeavours' basis for the first 30 days of September. In doing this I want to provide schools with flexibility to reintegrate students and to develop resilient and relevant learning plans. This is about helping schools as they return to full-time learning in their buildings.

But we know that many learners have not progressed as much as they would ordinarily have done so, and we need to address this. As teachers and heads continue to welcome pupils back, I know that they will be assessing learners’ needs and development, building on the check-in period for everyone before the summer break. My clear message to them is that funding is there in council and school budgets to recruit extra staff and teaching assistants for this academic year. Building on their understanding of where learners are in their learning, our investment of over £29 million is targeted to ensure that extra teachers and support is there for years 11, 12 and 13, as well as disadvantaged and vulnerable learners of all ages.

I know that teachers, as well as parents, share my concern about potential learning loss and the attainment gap. This month will help heads and teachers better understand how they can use the funding provided to support extra coaching, personalised learning programmes and additional time and resources for those pupils facing exams.

We have also been working with directors of education and education trade unions to develop guidance to support ongoing provision in schools, and this includes clear advice on social distancing. We have issued advice to schools and education workforce unions on COVID-19 more generally, and via Dysg, and we will continue to provide information and guidance as the needs arise.

We have also been working collectively across the Government to address issues around school transport, with £10 million additional funding allocated to assist local authorities. This money has helped them provide additional capacity to meet statutory requirements following the updated guidance issued recently by the traffic commissioner.

As we all understand, situations can change rapidly during a pandemic. I can assure you, however, that we will continue to work within and across Government, and with our other partners, to provide guidance and advice to ensure the safety of our staff and our young people. And together, even in these uncertain times, we will continue to focus on raising standards for all, reducing the attainment gap and ensuring that we have a system that is a source of pride and enjoys public confidence.

Thank you, Minister. Can I just associate myself with your opening remarks regarding teachers and staff, and can I include governors in that? It's been a really difficult time for everybody, including yourselves, but most importantly our constituents.

Thank you very much for your statement. I think we have to start off with the top line of my position, which is that schools must stay open unless they absolutely—absolutely—have to close. And while, of course, the situation with exams is difficult, and perhaps for another day, I think we do need to look a little bit at the history of the opening and closing of schools because, obviously, back in March, we all understood the urgency of limiting contact of every kind. We had a dangerous enemy that we didn't really understand, but we did also understand that there would be an inevitable hit to our children's education, and while school leaders did turn themselves inside out trying to provide the best that they could for our learners, I think we know by now that there was a great inconsistency of pupil contact, of the accessibility of online content, the ability of families to really engage with that online content, and the willingness of children to stick with it, the willingness to stick with that learning. We've all had a bit of COVID fatigue, I guess. 

And that's why we were very supportive, actually, of your plans to open schools over four weeks in the summer term to check in and catch up, as you said, so that teachers and learners could evaluate what they needed next. And I think that's perhaps where it started to unravel for Government. Letting the country think one thing, when, actually, you hadn't really nailed it down on the delivery of that fourth week, when you had powers that you could have used to stop councils saying 'no' to schools, is where I'm starting to take issue with what I thought was a good start, if I'm honest. Since then, there's been, certainly more latterly, more of a sense of 'whatever you want, schools' going on. Of course, there are operational decisions that only schools can make, and your guidance has been very helpful with that, but there are occasions when you need mandates; there are occasions when you need rules. Schools don't understand the science, whereas you, as you said today, have continued to be guided by the latest medical and scientific advice in making any decisions on the safe return of learners. You have that information; school leaders don't necessarily. And they are certainly are struggling to make ideas stick on the spot when they don't have that reassurance that behind them is a Minister who can say, 'Here's the law, that's what you can rely on.' 

When you say fully open is not back to normal, obviously that's true of the physical layout in our schools, but I think we do need some reassurance that the level and standard of acquisition of learning does need to be nearer back to normal. I'm not encouraged by your statement that we cannot expect schools to execute all of their duties in respect of the curriculum for all learners in all circumstances during this time. And we know they have had time. We agreed with you that a fortnight was a good time to let schools get the hang of what their learners needed, and I'm curious to know whether this extension for the first 30 days of September is something that you consulted on, because I don't believe it is, and whether we are back in a situation where we are suspending the need to stick to the curriculum. 

Have you been successful in persuading your colleagues of what I said in my opening statement, that schools must be the last to close down, particularly in the event of a lockdown? I see that you've expressed great confidence in the TTP strategy, so I'm hoping that that is the ammunition you've taken to Cabinet colleagues in making the argument that schools should stay open. But if you weren't successful in that, have you already decided what you will mandate in the event of a national lockdown, to make sure that learning wasn't impacted on in the way it was before? Are you thinking of mandating live-streaming of lessons, for example? Have you done an assessment of how much of the IT equipment that was distributed—something we supported—to make sure that students are making the best of them? Or in the more likely situation of localised lockdowns, which will hopefully mean students are out of face-to-face learning for a fortnight at a time at the most, are you going to be insisting that schools should require virtual attendance to lessons, which in the majority of cases should be provided virtually as timetabled?

I'd like a little bit of detail on the money that you found for new teachers and catch-up, how that's going to be used, and how it will be used in further education colleges. I'd be keen to learn how the belated monitoring and evaluation of what happened between March and July has affected decisions you're likely to make. And I'd be keen to hear what you can tell us now on how any further lockdowns would be likely to impact on that already pared down syllabus that you referred to earlier, particularly for those taking general qualifications later in—at the end of this academic year, sorry.

You didn't say very much about testing in schools. I wondered if you could tell us whether you or Public Health Wales have done anything on temperature testing in schools at all. If you have—that's an open question; genuinely curious to hear about that. And then I suppose I repeat my questions in the same context for further education, where the different age profiles make face-to-face teaching more difficult, because there are different regulations on social distancing relating to different age groups. I wonder if you could clarify for me how far you can mandate certain actions in a college as compared to a school, and do you have any particular powers through which you can satisfy yourself on that question of the quality of learning during a period of lockdown in FE institutions as well as schools? Thank you.

It's quite a long list of questions—I'll try and rattle through them as quickly as possible. Can I begin, though, by thanking Suzy Davies for her recognition of the tremendous efforts that have gone on in the education workforce in its entirety during this time? I'm very grateful to her for recognising that.

Can I assure her that keeping education open is a priority across the Government, and we will take all necessary steps necessary as a Government to ensure that children's learning is disrupted as little as possible? Indeed, you will have already heard the First Minister and the health Minister speak about some of the issues around greater mixing of households, which we have not proceeded with, to give us the headroom to allow schools to open. So, difficult decisions have already been taken by this Government, which have allowed us to prioritise the opening of schools. And I should just say to the Member—she referred to children missing out on education because of a local lockdown. Well, obviously, we have our first local lockdown at the moment in Wales, in Caerphilly, and schools and colleges remain open. And we've been very clear that our expectation is that, in Caerphilly, schools and colleges should remain open, and those travelling in and out of Caerphilly because they are teachers and they work in those establishments—that is a reasonable excuse for travel. And even though the problems with Caerphilly, and cases in that community being very high—over 70 per cent of children in Caerphilly attended school yesterday. It's one of the lower figures in Wales at the moment, but given that they're subject to a lockdown, it's good to see that that continues to be the case.

With regard to the curriculum, let's be absolutely clear on what the new normal is like. Suzy Davies is right—schools look and feel somewhat different. But it is important, having liaised with the teaching profession, that we do have some flexibility for this first month of operations, to give them an opportunity to test their procedures, to check out how things are working, and, crucially, to allow them to have the extra time that they may need to attend to children's well-being, and to understand where they are in their learning. And actually, for some aspects of the curriculum, there are public health reasons why we would not want them carrying out some activities. We continue to have concerns about some music activities within schools, especially in a group circumstance; issues around field trips that require an overnight stay—we are not recommending those at the moment, where those would be a normal part of the school day. So, there are some constraints. But if you talk to most schools, most schools are getting on with, as I said, identifying the learning needs, reflecting on the child's experience of lockdown, and making a plan going forward.

With regard to digital exclusion, I would remind the Member that we handed out 10,848 MiFi devices before the summer holiday, and we also handed out almost 10,000 licences to local authorities for them to convert all pieces of kit and those have been distributed to children. We've had record amounts of login to Hwb, which is our digital learning platform. But the Member is absolutely right, Deputy Presiding Officer: there was too much variation in the ability of schools to deliver distance learning. We have learnt the lessons; we are learning the lessons of what worked well, what were the barriers to that.

And as I speak, even though some of the local authorities don't particularly like it, Estyn is visiting every single local authority to assure themselves that the local authority is working with schools to ensure that they do have robust plans that allow them to flex their provision, should individual classes or individual schools be affected by the virus. And as I said, the inspectors are out there at this moment, and they will be reporting back to me. We've asked them to do that. We think it's really important to be able to have that level of assurance. 

With regard to synchronous and asynchronous learning, we've published advice back in April about how schools can do that safely and effectively. With regard to temperature checks, at this point, the CMO is not advising that temperatures are checked in schools, although some schools are doing that. Parents who suspect their child has a temperature should not be sending their child to school. A high temperature is a symptom of coronavirus. If you suspect that your child has a high temperature, that child needs to get a test and should not be attending school. We will continue throughout this period to provide additional information and opportunities to discuss with headteachers and their representatives about how we can make sure that there is clarity about what a school needs to do if a child becomes unwell. But what we have seen so far is that, where that has happened, schools have taken immediate action to protect children and staff. 

With regard to FE, well, obviously our colleges are also subject to the powers of inspection by Estyn, and we would expect Estyn to continue to work alongside our FE colleges to satisfy ourselves that the provision at those colleges is as good as it could be. As you know, FE is a strong part of our education system in Wales that delivers, year on year, excellent results, and colleges have been working very hard with Government to ensure that their learners can return safely.

With regard to catch-up money, £29 million has been made available. Each local authority has been given an allocation for individual schools. There is also an amount of money that has been given to each regional partnership to be able to assist schools in making sure that that money is used in an evidence-way approach, so each school will have been given an allocation. That money is there, and I would expect that headteachers and the LEAs would be planning this term, on the basis of these first few weeks back in school, about how that money can be used to best effect. I myself was in Hay-on-Wye primary school just last week, and Mrs B, the formidable headteacher of that primary school, already had a firm plan in place of how she was going to use her allocation.

Thank you for the statement. I too would like to thank everyone who is seeking to ensure that our children and young people are able to return to education in a safe manner, which is a huge challenge, of course, particularly as we see positive COVID cases on the rise among our children and young people, with dozens of schools now having been affected already by the coronavirus crisis. 

I have to say, I can't believe that you think that the test, trace and protect system is 'successful'. I think that's the word you used. That's the least appropriate description of it in my view, given the situation developing with testing in our schools. There is a grave weakness with that part of the strategy, which is that first step: the testing. And implementing that part of the strategy is very weak at the moment. Now, I do know that the COVID testing is an issue for the health Minister, but there is a responsibility on you as education Minister when the lack of testing and the delays in getting tests does mean that far too many pupils are absent from our schools unnecessarily and are therefore missing out on their education once again. Unfortunately, my inbox is full of e-mails from parents from all parts of Wales—not just Arfon, but all corners of Wales—who tell me that their school had sent their child home because they were symptomatic, which, of course, is the right thing to do, as you've just mentioned, but then that the school expects that child to have a test before returning to school but the parents simply cannot access a test either through the mail or in a drive-through centre.

So, I would like to know what discussions you are having on behalf of our children and young people who don't want to miss out on more of their education on this utterly unacceptable situation with testing and why can't the Welsh Government education department develop a specific mechanism for parents, pupils and staff in schools so that schools can easily access testing. What about creating one point of contact for schools to deal with testing so that they can access them far more swiftly than they can at the moment? We must resolve this and I would like to hear what you've been doing about this particular situation.

Another issue that is a cause of concern for pupils and parents is the situation with face coverings on school buses. Now, I think there's a lack of clarity, and therefore I would like to know who exactly is responsible for enforcement in terms of the wearing of face coverings on school buses. Again, my inbox is full of messages from people who are concerned about seeing problems arising on that journey to school on the bus. You've provided more funding for school transport, but that alone isn't going to improve the situation where there isn't clear guidance in place and clarity for both pupils and parents on the enforcement of this aspect of face coverings.

And to conclude, the major question on examinations remains and what will happen next summer. The increase in cases and the unacceptable situation with testing does mean that the education of some of our pupils is already being affected and we've only just got back, so why don't you announce that examinations won't be held next year and that you will focus rather on creating a robust system of using assessments that doesn't include having to be physically at school to take an exam? There's no mention of that in your statement and an early announcement on that issue would be very much appreciated.

Could I make it absolutely clear that the information that I have to date regarding COVID-positive cases in school at this stage relates to the infection being acquired outside of the school premises? I think that's really important to state. Where we've had children testing positive for COVID, that is usually part of a family grouping and, where we have had adults testing positive for COVID at this stage, the data I have would suggest that, again, the virus has been acquired outside of school. And that's why it is really, really important—if we are to do what we all want to do in this Chamber, to keep our schools open, then all of us have a responsibility to do what we can to keep community transmission rates of the virus really low. Where we're seeing the biggest disruption to education at the moment, it mirrors where we're seeing the virus in the community, in Caerphilly, in Rhondda Cynon Taf, in Newport—not exclusively, of course, because there are schools in other parts of Wales that are affected, but we have to keep transmission rates down and it's really important.

I've had reports, for instance, of parents gathering closely together without socially distancing at the school gate. That's a simple thing we can avoid doing—that we can avoid doing. It is particularly important that staff in our schools remember to socially distance themselves from other members of staff. We have an incident where the senior management of a school is currently self-isolating because of a COVID case and because that staff group had been meeting together in the staff room and had not done that in a socially distanced way—hence the other members of staff having to go home to isolate. So, it's really important that we remember these messages. 

With regard to testing, issues around lighthouse lab capacity again have been well rehearsed here in the Chamber today, and the health Minister will speak next, but I can assure you, Siân, that I have more than daily conversations with the health Minister about the need to ensure that TTP is as good as it needs to be to allow for the smooth running of education, and the Welsh Government is taking steps to do just that, to ensure that capacity above and beyond that at the lighthouse labs is made available, focusing in particular on those communities where we know infection in the community is a challenge at the moment, and there are further plans to increase local walk-in facilities, which will be important as the autumn continues.

Can I say that testing kits have been distributed to all schools and colleges, which can be used in an emergency if there is really, truly, no other way for a child to be able to access a test? So, schools will have 10 kits delivered to them, and, as I said, they are there in absolutely emergency situations. Kits have also been supplied to further education colleges. But I recognise—and that's why the Government is working as hard as it can to make sure that tests are available in a timely fashion, because that does allow us to minimise disruption.

With regard to face coverings, the guidance is absolutely clear with regard to face coverings. Our expectations of schools and our operational guidance are that they will take steps within their school to limit contact between groups of students. And schools are doing this in a variety of ways: zoning, for instance; one-way systems; staggered starts; staggered break times, lunch times and end-of-school-day arrangements. Where, after all those other things have been done—because those things have to be done first—where those things have all been done and then it is impossible to keep bubbles of students apart in communal areas, that's when face coverings should be worn. And it is best that that is done on an individual risk-assessment basis within an individual school, because our schools come in all different shapes and sizes. There are high schools in my own constituency that would look like a small primary school in the context of Cardiff. We have some of our schools in wonderful twenty-first century schools buildings, and then some of our schools are still, if I'm honest, Victorian structures, so your ability to achieve these things within your school will vary from school to school. If you cannot keep groups of students in communal areas 2m apart, then they should wear a face covering, and I'm sure that figuring that out is well within the capability of our headteachers who run our schools. They are dealing with much more complex problems every single day of their lives than figuring out whether they can keep children 2m apart in a corridor.

With regard to buses and home-to-school transport, 17 of our 22 local authorities have already mandated or strongly recommended that face coverings be used on home-to-school transport. And again, the advice, Deputy Presiding Officer, is clear: if capacity on that bus precludes you from keeping children apart—and, let's be honest, that's the case on most buses—then, again, a face covering is appropriate. And, as to who is responsible for that, then parents and carers and children themselves have to have those conversations about what they can do to ensure that they are minimising the chances of disruption of their education by wearing a face covering. And I believe we are the only part of the United Kingdom where the Government has made financial resources available to allow local authorities to purchase, and schools to purchase, masks for their students, so that no child will be in a situation where they don't have the appropriate face covering if that's necessary. And, again, as I said, I think we're the only part of the United Kingdom to make that possible.

Thank you very much for your statement and the comments you've made to other Members.

I agree with you that emotional well-being has to be the top priority, because a child that is distressed is not going to be learning effectively. So, that absolutely has to be the top priority. And it is wonderful to hear the sounds in the playground of children playing, because we know, then, that they are back enjoying life.

I think that, just picking up on some of the comments you made about the use of masks when it's not possible to separate young people, and, obviously, that includes when they're getting on these buses to go back to wherever, it simply isn't possible to have school buses by year groups—that's just not going to happen; we haven't got that sort of level of buses. But I think—when parents express concern about this, I wondered if we could encourage them to think beyond that and think, 'Could my child not be bicycling to school, or walking?', depending on how far away they've got to travel. Because that transition in people's—parents'—heads has not yet been made, in my experience. 

I want to pay tribute to the two schools where there were very limited outbreaks of coronavirus at the very beginning of term. Clearly, it must have been contracted in the community; they hadn't been in school long enough to have contracted it in school. So, I'm absolutely reinforcing the messages you say about how we all need to keep the whole community from spreading the disease so that we can keep our schools open.

However, I want to come back on this digital exclusion point, because you weren't in the Chamber when I had a dialogue with the Deputy Minister on the number of Gypsy and Traveller sites that are digitally connected, and she said half of them had some connection. Well, I know what that means from personal experience—1 Mbps won't get you any learning remotely, unfortunately. And I'm concerned about all the other sites where there clearly is no digital learning. So, it doesn't matter how many iPads and laptops we hand out, those children will not be able to access the curriculum unless we are providing the broadband to enable those things to function. So, I wondered if you could talk to the Minister for local government about how we can get local authorities to make this a top priority. Because the money is available for making these connections, but local authorities have simply not taken it up over the summer when there was this opportunity to do so. So, this seems to me a top priority, and thank you for all the work you're doing.

Thank you very much. You're absolutely correct: well-being is key. Learning cannot stick in a child who is distressed, and what we know is that the period of lockdown will have had an impact on all of our children, but that impact will be as various as our children are. Lockdown will have been a very unhappy period for some of our children, and that will need to be addressed. We know that for some of our learners, actually—and there have been some recent surveys that have said that teenagers actually have been less stressed being outside of school, so that reintegration into school has to be managed appropriately. And, if nothing else, it reinforces the importance of the whole-school approach, doesn't it, about making school a happy place to be for all of our learners. And that's why we do need to take this time at the beginning of term to give schools space to be able to address that, so that the rest of the academic year can go as well as it possibly can. And that's why we've made additional resources available, between myself and the health Minister, to have additional counselling sessions for those children where counselling is appropriate, and children in primary school, where traditional counselling is not an appropriate method for intervening with children, but family work and group work, which is much more appropriate, is made available. 

Deputy Presiding Officer, the Member is right: in our guidance, we say very clearly that active travel should be the first option for parents where it is practical to do so, if for no other reason than that is a perfect start to the day for a child—burning off a little bit of that excess energy, getting some fresh air and getting some exercise before the start of the school day. We will continue to work with colleagues in the transport department to get those messages across and to make sure that schools are well equipped for that. Across the way here, in Ysgol Hamadryad, we have our first active travel school, where cars are simply not allowed to travel to school. So, in certain circumstances, in certain communities, it can be done successfully and we need to keep working on creating the conditions—not just for now, but for the future—to encourage active travel.

With regard to digital exclusion, I will indeed raise the point with the Minister for local government about permanent connections to Gypsy and Traveller sites. But, as I said in answer to Suzy Davies, not only did we give out laptops and devices to children, we also actually distributed 10,848 MiFi devices. Sometimes, it's not just the lack of a device that's the problem; it's the connectivity. You may be in a Gypsy-Traveller site, or you may be in the countryside, where that connection is not available. Hence, we were able to assist, as I said, almost 11,000 children by providing them with connectivity during this time.

How do you respond to concerns raised with me by school staff that social distancing is being ignored or is impossible for pupils whose school requires them to move between classrooms; that the breadth and standard of online teaching has been variable, asking whether Wales has invested in further development of online teaching and resources in preparation for a possible second wave; that a primary sector teacher was hauled over the coals for using up too much paper in her classroom during hand-washing sessions, and told to encourage pupils to air-dry their hands—we all know how dangerous that is; that in some authorities the teaching staff are having to clean their own classrooms, with cleaners only coming in to provide one weekly deep clean, creating additional health risks and increasing their stress levels; and that Kirsty Williams says that the headteacher is best placed to advise, but they are not medical practitioners or scientists, and even they have got it wrong, and that we need robust, enforceable all-Wales advice?

First of all, with regard to digital learning, as I have said in answer to both Jenny Rathbone and Suzy Davies, we've invested heavily in ensuring that digitally excluded learners have devices and MiFi connections. Those devices that have been given out to children will be replaced with new devices in those schools that have given devices to children as part of our EdTech scheme.

With regard to what further investment, Wales is the only part of the United Kingdom that has a deal with Microsoft. So, every child and every teacher has access to a full suite of Microsoft for education tools—Office and all those things that a school and a child would need to engage in online learning. Our digital platform, Hwb, has been an absolute godsend during this period. During the lockdown, we were also able to make Adobe Spark software available to every single child and teacher. Again, these are unique resources that are simply not available on this scale, free of charge, anywhere else in the United Kingdom.

With regard to cleaning, operational guidance is very clear about cleaning. Ahead of the summer term, out of the education budget, we made over £1 million available, up front, for local authorities to buy additional cleaning material. My colleague the Minister for local government has made available, I believe it is £29 million, which local authorities can draw down for the additional costs of cleaning in their schools. That is a substantial sum of money that has been agreed with the Welsh Local Government Association, so there is no reason why cleaning should be being skimped on. The financial resources have been made available prior to September, and are available to local authorities as we move forward.

With regard to enforcement, HSE, the Health and Safety Executive—much to the annoyance, actually, of some unions—has been ringing schools during the first week back and last week back, checking that the schools are abiding by the legislation that we have put in place for safe workplaces. Because not only are they places of education, they are workplaces, and they need to comply with the legislation that has been put in place. The HSE has been actively involved in telephoning schools to double-check that they are taking all the necessary steps.

With regard to moving children around schools, many schools are choosing to limit movements around schools, Mark. So, for instance, children staying in a particular classroom for the majority of their day, including in secondary school, and only moving when they need to move to a lab to do, perhaps, lab work. Or, the preference many schools are using is actually moving staff around the schools. And if that teacher is saying that those provisions haven't been put in place in their school then that conversation needs to be had with the headteacher, doesn't it, about how that school is organising itself? Because in the schools that I have visited, and the discussions I've had with headteachers, they're looking at zones and they're looking at minimising the amount of movement around a school that the pupils are doing, choosing, where at all possible, to move staff instead.

Can I thank you for your statement, Minister, and also place on record my thanks to not just the school staff, but also staff in LEAs who've worked really hard to get the children back to school? It is really wonderful to have them back there.

I welcome your assurance on the issue of testing that you're having very regular discussions with the health Minister. As you'll be aware, there have been some concerns locally about the ability to get tests for children and young people via the UK Government's lighthouse labs, so I would be grateful if you could give me your assurances that you will continue to discuss that with the health Minister and that both of you will continue to impress upon the UK Government how vital it is that the testing system is in place to respond quickly on these issues.

I was pleased to see the emphasis in your statement and in the reopening guidance on well-being, and obviously I heard your answer to Jenny Rathbone. I'd like to ask you, though, how you are ensuring that all schools are actually embracing the need to prioritise well-being, and also how you're ensuring that the money, and this is a significant sum of money that's been allocated, is being spent in an appropriate way to support children and young people, particularly in relation to the concerns you've highlighted, which you know the committee shares, about the need for appropriate interventions for particularly younger children. 

And just finally, I'd like to say that one of the committee's major concerns during the lockdown was the impact on hidden children and children who were maybe suffering abuse and neglect at home but that weren't known to services. I welcome the recent Welsh Government leaflet—

Can you wind up, please?

—that's been produced with Childline, which is very helpful: you have the right to remain safe. Can I ask you what you're doing to ensure that all children and young people in Wales have access to that very useful leaflet? Thank you.

Can I thank Lynne Neagle for her comments and her recognition of the role of local education authorities during this time, who have, as you said, been working tirelessly alongside their headteachers to be able to put provision in place that has led to the opening of all our schools for the start of this academic year? It's been a massive challenge and they have risen to it well. I'm very grateful for the support of those in the WLGA who specialise in education. I meet on a regular basis, weekly—I think almost weekly through the summer as well—with them so that we can understand the challenges that they're facing on the ground turning our operational guidance as a Government into reality.

As I said, undoubtedly, there are challenges with testing capacity at this moment. I discuss it often with my colleague the health Minister. I discussed it yesterday with Gavin Williamson, the Minister in Westminster, who has similar challenges in making sure that testing capacity is meeting the demands that are being placed upon it at the moment. We have a collective endeavour to make sure that action is taken at lighthouse labs, but those are not the only facilities that we're relying on. We are working hard to create additional local testing centres as well as the other facilities that have already been announced by my colleague the health Minister.

With regard to well-being, myself and the Minister for children, Julie Morgan, continue to work together to ensure that local authorities are responding in a holistic approach across education and children's services to meet the needs of children. Again, we have to anticipate a rise in referrals at this time, as children come back into school and begin to have those conversations with trusted adults about what the period of lockdown has been for them. And, like you, I think for most teaching professionals, those children who are on the cusp—you know, so they're not formally known to social services; those children have been contacted throughout this period—but for those children where life, sometimes, at home can be a challenge, those are the children who have been a particular focus and of concern to teachers. And we are working with LEAs to make sure that education has the ability to make referrals as necessary and get the necessary support in for children and families at this time if that becomes evident that it is needed.

And you're right: for younger children, the focus must be on family therapy and group sessions rather than the traditional counselling model. The counselling model allows you to be able to take control of your own life and make decisions and take actions. Well, the ability of a six-year-old to be able to do that in these circumstances is limited if it exists at all, and therefore different types of therapy. We will be monitoring how individual health boards and local authorities are using the resources that have been made available to them. And I will discuss with colleagues about how we can get the information that the Member referred to more widely available to all children so that they are aware of the support that is available to them.

Thank you for your statement, Minister. I also want to take this opportunity to welcome your comments and your opening remarks that you want to keep our schools open during these uncertain times.

It was a little concerning this week when I heard that a number of children were sent home with runny noses this week, and obviously, because of the delay in testing, that meant that they missed out on three days of education, roughly. None of us want to see them missing out on any more education, I'm sure, so I welcome your comments that you said that you're going to work with the health Minister to ensure that testing is speeded up. But also, I'm just wondering what guidance we could maybe further issue to our schools to differentiate between COVID symptoms and the common cold—a sniffly cough—and maybe, as was suggested earlier in the Chamber, it is a good idea to look into all schools temperature testing before sending a child home, so at least they do have one of the COVID symptoms. Because we don't—I'm sure that we all, Minister—don't want to see any of our children missing out unnecessarily on education. Thank you.

Laura Anne makes a very relevant point. At this time of year, at the start of an academic year, as a mum Laura, you well know the absolute inevitability of the cold; it is a truth like death and taxes that you will get that cold. But because of the heightened awareness, quite understandably, people are very, very anxious and it is understandable why, then, perhaps a member of staff may say, 'No, this child has to go home.' 

I would refer you to a video that we have been circulating that has been done by Dr Heather Payne, who is the chief adviser on child health to the Government, explaining just this, about when it's appropriate for a child to be tested and that the symptoms of a common cold are different. We're looking to work across education and health to do extra webinars for teachers and headteachers, where they can hear directly from health professionals to give them the extra confidence that they need in helping them make these decisions, and that is being arranged as we speak. We're trying to get those messages out.

But, clearly, access to testing does need to improve to be able to minimise disruption where a child could have one of the nasties that you have at this time of year, but it is not COVID and therefore, if they were well enough in themselves, they could be in school. But that's one of the wicked problems that we face returning to school at this particular juncture in the year; it's one of the challenges we're going to have to overcome. Thank you.

And finally, Mick Antoniw.

Minister, we all want the best for our schoolchildren. Rhondda Cynon Taf, over the last 10 years, will have invested somewhere in the region of £0.75 billion under the twenty-first century schools programme renewing those schools. And in those schools, of course, we want the best teachers, so I very much welcome the proposal by Welsh Government to employ a further 600 teachers. But one of the issues that has arisen, of course, is that we have quite a number of highly qualified teachers living in Wales who have qualified abroad but face obstacles in overcoming the restrictions on the recognition of their qualifications. I have one particular constituent—I know I've written to you about that, and I'm very grateful for the way in which you've looked at that particular issue—a highly qualified teacher from the United States who has been trying to overcome those hurdles. Bearing in mind the demand we have now for teachers and the challenges that we face from COVID, is there anything that you could do as education Minister to perhaps look at those restrictions, to overcome those restrictions, to ensure that we maximise the use of the wealth of talent that exists amongst the citizens who have made their lives in Wales and who could contribute so much to our education system?

Thank you, Mick. Firstly, on the twenty-first century schools programme, can I assure Members that work onsite continues, and has continued, as soon as regulations allowed that to happen? And despite the considerable strain on Welsh Government budgets, I'm delighted that the capital available to me to continue to support band B of that programme is unchanged. Even during lockdown, we've been able to make announcements on some really significant new buildings. That's really important, of course, for the future of education, but it's also really important to our economic recovery, making sure that this Government is spending Welsh money to provide fantastic facilities, but also work for people here in Wales.

Can I assure the Member that work is under way at the moment to give powers to the Education Workforce Council to be able to make decisions regarding the applicability and the relevance of teaching qualifications from areas of the world that presently do not automatically give you the right to work as a teacher here? We guard entry into our profession in Wales, quite rightly so, very, very highly. We want the very best people standing in front of our classrooms. No education system can exceed the quality of the people who work with our children day in and day out. But we are in the process of giving extra powers to the Education Workforce Council that will allow an individual with a teaching qualification from a country outside, traditionally, the UK or the European Union to have that qualification scrutinised by the Education Workforce Council, with a view to putting them on the list as a qualified teacher able to work within Wales. That work is under way right at this moment. So, it shouldn't be too much longer, Mick. Not too much longer.

Thank you, Minister.

Item 4 on the agenda is a statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services on the winter protection plan. I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services—Vaughan Gething.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Members will be aware that I announced our intention to develop a winter protection plan for Wales over the summer. I'm pleased to confirm we have now published that plan, following our work with stakeholders. The events from the last week have reinforced why this is needed. Despite all of the good progress made over the summer, the position remains precarious. The COVID-19 pandemic is not over, and as we have been reminded again, the virus can spread quickly with significant local outbreaks.

We all know that winter is always a challenging time of year for our health and social service staff. Let me be clear: the challenges this winter will be truly extraordinary. In addition to the normal winter pressures, we will need to respond to the unfinished COVID pandemic. The resurgence of the virus in recent weeks will not be the end of our challenges. The next days and weeks will determine whether we need to introduce even more significant measures to control the virus. So, we must be prepared for the worst. The winter protection plan is intended to bring together the main health and social care contributions that protect the public, help support delivery and engagement with our key partners and stakeholders, and we will work together to keep Wales safe.

We have heard from community health councils about the things that will matter most to individuals and communities. Engagement with professional groups and partners across health and social care has been helpful to ensure that the context for the winter protection plan is clear. Our NHS and care expectations will be more specifically set out in the NHS operational framework for quarters 3 and 4, which will be issued next week. The winter protection plan will be supported by the £800 million NHS stabilisation package that we recently announced, together with the additional funding being provided to local authorities and the care sector.

The plan highlights a number of now familiar areas, but ones that are crucial to controlling the virus, keeping communities safe and well and to reduce demand on our NHS and care services. For example, a key element of the local prevention and response plans is the test, trace and protect service. This provides a key defence against widespread transmission that relies heavily on public co-operation, honesty and compliance with that advice. The plan identifies the need for the public to support an expanded and comprehensive flu vaccination campaign this autumn. This should help to reduce the seasonal demands that flu places on our NHS. There is no easy way to tackle COVID-19, it requires everyone to play their part in supporting this national effort.

Scientific evidence informs our decisions and will continue to do so. I recognise it has been very difficult and challenging for us as individuals and communities. Working together as a nation has made a huge difference, with people and organisations across Wales playing their part in helping to limit the impact of the virus. The reduction over the summer made some people relax and become complacent about the continuing threat. There has also been a minority of people that have deliberately not followed the rules and may have thought that COVID-19 had gone away. It has not and cases are rising.

Despite the huge efforts of the majority of people, some areas are experiencing much higher numbers of cases that are likely to result in vulnerable people being admitted to hospital in the coming weeks. So, let me be absolutely clear: if we are to avoid further local or national lockdowns, our behaviour must change and change quickly. We are in a similar position now to early February this year—a matter of weeks ahead of the national lockdown choice made in March by each UK nation.

We have seen significant rises in cases in the Caerphilly borough area, Merthyr Tydfil, the Rhondda and in Newport. Members will know that local actions have had to be taken and are under constant review. Limiting people's movements and placing restrictions on daily life is never something the Welsh Government has taken lightly. However, we will make those difficult decisions to help to save lives and reduce the risks to our most vulnerable people.

The significance of the rise in cases in the last week means we have a very narrow window of opportunity in which to act and avoid more radical intervention. None of us want to see more restrictions, but I cannot stress enough that if we do not start to see a reduction in cases, and that can only come through changes in our behaviour, then lives will be lost. I do not want to see a national lockdown, but if the choice is that or more harm, including deaths, then we will do what is necessary to keep Wales safe.

Health and social care staff, together with other key workers and colleagues in the third sector, work tirelessly to provide services and care for us and our loved ones. We in turn must all do our bit to fight the virus and help keep Wales safe, whether that is adhering to the rules, maintaining social distancing or practising good hand hygiene. We will continue to live with the virus in many aspects of our daily lives for some time to come. We must remain vigilant for ourselves, our families and communities.

The winter protection plan is not a panacea, and it will take time for us all to recover from this pandemic. However, the plan demonstrates our continued commitment to the people of Wales throughout this exceptional public health emergency. We all have our part to play to do the right thing. We can all make choices to help keep Wales safe.

Minister, thank you for your statement this afternoon. Can I put on record my sincere thanks to all the staff that make up the health and social care family in Wales for what they've done so far since the COVID outbreak was officially declared in March, and, indeed, to you as Minister, and the Government as well? Because I'm sure the pressure on all of you as individuals has been as great a challenge as anything you've faced in your political if not in your entire lives. But I would like to ask a series of questions about the plan that you have tabled before the Assembly today.

It's important that such plans do maintain confidence, and confidence is a critical component, not just from the staff who will be delivering this plan, but obviously the public who have to buy into it. Yesterday, we had the breach from Public Health Wales around the testing and the data that was put up on public display. This afternoon we've heard from the First Minister that he didn't know anything about that breach of data until 2 o'clock yesterday afternoon, when Public Health Wales put that up on display. I'm led to believe that Welsh Government were informed on 2 September of this data breach, and you as Minister were informed on 3 September. Can you inform the Assembly today of the timeline when this information was made available to you, and why did you retain that information rather than share it with other colleagues in Government? Or is it the case that you did share it with other colleagues in Government, but not the First Minister? I think it is really important that we understand how Government is working when such anomalies—and it is an anomaly, I accept, the data breach, but it's a serious anomaly of 18,000 names appearing on a public website, and it's vital that we keep confidence.

Secondly, could you highlight how this plan will start to address the issue of tackling the waiting lists that have built up through the summer months? Because it is critically important that we do make progress in that particular area. I agree entirely with you when you say about the issue of it being a real troubling time when you've got COVID and waiting times and normal winter pressures, but it's important that the public can have confidence that some of these waiting times will be eaten into.

Thirdly, on the flu vaccine programme, can you identify that there are enough doses available to meet the requirements of the flu vaccine programme that you've put before us? Because a new cohort of individuals has been brought into the scheme, and as I understand it, there are still negotiations pending with the pharmaceutical companies to secure enough dosage to make sure that there's enough flu vaccine available in the country.

Fourthly, it is vital that we understand the support that the staff require, both in social and in health settings. Are you confident that this plan that you've put before us today to meet winter pressures will meet the needs of staff both in social care and healthcare settings, so that ultimately they can feel supported, whether it be in PPE or making sure that they can make the decisions that they require to meet the circumstances that face them in their own localities?

Finally, could you highlight to me in particular—because it's a concern that I've had raised with me around dental services—how this plan will address the chronic problems that the dental service in this country is facing at the moment, getting back to as near normal as possible, albeit the new normal that we face with the COVID regulations?

Thank you for that series of questions, which I'll try to address as quickly as time allows.

You're correct; my understanding is that officials were informed on 2 September, and I was informed with a serious incident alert on 3 September. That's entirely normal. Public Health Wales had already informed the Information Commissioner, as they should do, of the breach. They had identified what had happened, and as I say, we don't believe that anyone has come to harm, but it is a serious breach and it needs to be treated seriously. That's why there is an independent investigation. That investigation will be taken through the board accountability and governance processes, so you can expect there to be a published report into that investigation once it's been received. And as you know, the chief executive of Public Health Wales issued a proactive press release and gave a series of interviews yesterday setting out what had happened, and indeed apologising for the serious breach. There is no attempt to cover over the fact that this was a serious breach that took place, and it was reported as a serious incident, as indeed all serious incidents are between the health service and the Government.

In terms of addressing waiting lists, I'm afraid I don't share the Member's optimism about the ability to significantly eat into waiting lists over the winter period. It's a reality in every nation of the UK that the significant increase in activity that has built up during the first period of lockdown, where we both ended NHS services—. You'll recall that on 13 March I was the first UK health Minister to make the decision to pause most forms of elective activity. We've seen a significant build-up as a result of that, and then, even as services have restarted, there's been some reluctance from members of the public to access services that are now available. In common with every other Minister in every one of the four nations, I'd say that most of the next term, a full Senedd term, will be likely to be needed to catch up with the activity we're seeing, partly because of the activity that's built up, but also because we're not able to see people in the numbers we'd otherwise do. That's about the need to screen people, between COVID secure and those where they are suspected or COVID-positive. It's also the reality that our staff can't undertake as many procedures with the additional PPE requirements. So, it isn't realistic for us to expect there to be a significant eating into waiting lists through this period of time. It will need prioritisation for people with the greatest need, and that means that it's going to be difficult because some people will need to wait longer. But, as I said, that is not a situation unique to Wales. You may have seen the commentary from the King's Fund and others about the scale of challenge that we're going to face right across our national health service, and we'll talk more and more about the reasons for that, including our staff. And I was pleased to hear you mention our staff, because our staff haven't really had a break, across our health and social care system, since the start of the pandemic, and that gives me great concern about not just the potential for a second wave, but the longer term future. 

We have introduced more support—occupational health support, health and well-being support—and I have had very regular conversations with representatives from employers and trade unions. There's been even more conversation between those parts of the workplace relationship than even we would have had in normal times. That's because what our staff have had to do will have an impact on them, for more support, practically, to keep them in the workplace, but we also know that there is an effect that takes some time to manifest itself when people have been through particularly difficult or traumatic events. So, through the next term, we'll need to deal with the reality that staff in health and social care will need more support, and some staff will need to come out of the workplace to recover and some staff may leave prematurely.

So, actually we have had a really big challenge building up with more activity that we can't undertake now and we'll face a challenge in our staff. But I can say, though, on the positive side: you mentioned challenges around PPE to support staff; we're in a much better position than at the start of the pandemic, where we found that we had stores that we had in use, and once we'd used the pandemic stores, our normal plans would have been to have contracts in place, but other countries then didn't honour them because they had their own challenges and, as we've rehearsed many times, the world market in PPE tightened significantly. We've rebuilt and stocked up our stores, we've been very successful within the family of UK nations in doing so, and we've helped other UK nations through mutual aid with PPE requirements. We've also managed to continue to supply PPE to our social care sector as well. So, we have a much better situation on stock than the position that I faced when going through the pandemic in April and May of this year. 

On the flu vaccine, the UK Government procure for all four nations. That's an agreed process. So, we're optimistic that we'll have more flu vaccine in place for every UK nation, including, of course, Wales. We're looking to prioritise the most vulnerable. There's a section in the winter protection plan on what we're looking to do to both have a higher rate of uptake in our most vulnerable populations and if we still have enough vaccine to then go out and have people over the age of 50 receiving the flu vaccine as well, as well as our in-any-event plan to have more pre-school and primary school-age children undertaking and receiving the vaccine as well. 

On dentistry, we expect more data to be provided in the NHS operational framework that I mentioned. This has been a real challenge because, of course, dentistry is a high-risk profession—it's pretty impossible to undertake socially distanced dentistry work, there's the proximity you often need to be able to do the work and, indeed, the aerosol-generating procedures. We can expect there to be more detail through the operational framework and the advice from our chief dental officer. 

Thank you for the statement, Minister. I'll begin with that assertion of yours that we're in a position very similar to that which we were in in February. I know why you're saying it, because this is the same virus, it's as potentially dangerous as it was back then and I fully concur with your view that it's up to all of us to face our own responsibilities in terms of adhering to guidance and so on, but we should be, of course, in a much, much better place than we were in February. We have track and trace, we know a bit more about treatments—a lot more about treatments—we do have, finally, now, the wearing of face coverings, keeping people safe, and so on. What we need to know now, going into the winter, is that lessons have been learned and some of, perhaps, the bad decisions made early on—understandable, given that this was new, if not entirely forgivable, but understandable—we need to make sure that they aren't happening again. And whilst you spent a lot of that statement saying how important it is that people take their own responsibilities, it's about what the Government can do and, on testing and tracing, it's not people who are flouting rules who are finding it difficult to get tests in my constituency and throughout Wales at the moment—it's people who can't get tests because they aren't available now. Can you explain to us what will be done ahead of this winter to make sure that the over-reliance that you decided to put on the lighthouse labs won't become a problem in coming weeks and months? This is something that independent SAGE warned against; I'm concerned about it too. We're looking for assurances from you. 

I wrote to you about the problems in getting tests last week. I also in that letter asked: please, can we move towards the asymptomatic testing of domiciliary carers and community nurses, and others who have to visit people's homes? Because there are fears that those tests that have been made available in residential homes still aren't there for people who need them just as much because of the vulnerability of people that they come across. Please can you assure us that that is something that you will look at introducing as we approach the winter, or do so immediately?

I'm concerned that there's no mention, whilst you look at the flu, of other chronic health conditions. In particular, I'm thinking of cancer. There's no reference to that in your statement. It's vital that you keep the NHS running, of course, for other health conditions as much as possible, and I dread to think what the survival rates for cancer will be next year if we have a winter without screening or testing. So, it's about what Government can show us at the onset of winter that they have learned that actually makes now very different to February in terms of our potential to certainly get a better outcome than we did in those early days of the pandemic here in Wales. 

Thank you for that series of questions I'll run through. I think it's important to recognise what I am saying about the comparison with February. Of course, we're in a better position in terms of our preparation and understanding, with the practical experience and learning from the last six months or so. That's not the point that I'm making; I think the Member knows that isn't the point that I'm making, but in terms of the position in February about the profile and the rise in cases, so without action where we could end up find ourselves. In terms of learning from where we were, I think it's fair to say that with the knowledge we have now and the same facts, we would act differently. So, that's why I'm saying it's really important that people take account of their own choices, because otherwise the Government may have different choices to make where we may need to make choices earlier than the time period in which we did in the first wave. And that is the learning that I think Members are urging us to take on board. The Government will meet its responsibilities, but I think it is really important that people don't forget their own personal responsibility as well. That's what saw us come out of lockdown through the summer and suppress the virus, and it's what's been the most significant factor in seeing a rise in case numbers as well.

It may be helpful if I re-set out what's happened with the lighthouse labs, the UK testing programme. You'll recall that most of the criticism at the early stage was that Wales didn't take part early enough in the lighthouse labs testing programme, and that was because we couldn't see and understand the data flowing through it. Scotland and Northern Ireland took part earlier; we waited until we could understand the data, and that's now regularly flowing through to our test, trace and protect teams. They've always been able to see data from the lighthouse labs and NHS Wales labs, and that's put us in a very good position for our highly successful contact tracing service. 

The challenges we've seen are that the lighthouse labs process was working well until about three weeks ago, to be fair. We've all seen the well-advertised challenges, and that's really because not so much that they can't undertake the sampling, but they're unable to deliver the testing of those samples to get the results back to people, and that's the problem that we see. And Matt Hancock today has acknowledged in the House of Commons that it'll take a matter of weeks for that to be resolved. That was a discussion we had in meetings of health Ministers of all four nations on Friday. We then saw the challenges in the testing programme with reductions over the weekend. And again, to be fair to Matt Hancock, after myself and other health Ministers contacted him, there was an improvement over the weekend, and we then mobilised some of our own resources as well. 

As well as us thinking about how we redeploy NHS Wales resources, which we are doing, and I'll have more to say over the next week or so on what we're doing, especially around mobile testing units, we also need the UK programme to get back on an even keel because it's a UK-funded and delivered programme of testing in each one of the four nations. There isn't an additional consequential of extra money or extra staff that are waiting to be found to come and deliver additional tests aside from this. And the successful return to the level of predictability and testing turnaround we saw through most of the summer would benefit all four nations. That is what we are looking to see happen.

When it comes to the use of NHS Wales resources, we built them up to be able to deal with extra pressures that we know we're going face through the autumn and the winter. So, it's a collaborative effort of the Welsh programme that we've taken Welsh Government resources to fund, and indeed the lighthouse programme as well, and seeing that come back to the levels of performance we saw up until about three weeks ago.

On the challenge about COVID tests in asymptomatic populations in domiciliary care and residential care, we've carried on with a regular testing programme now from the first weekly programme to every two weeks. Typically for staff in residential care, we've increased the frequency again in Caerphilly, and we're looking to do so again in RCT because of the challenges there about an increase in community transmission.

So, we are looking to deliver a regular programme, and, again, the challenges that you allude to in terms of that testing programme for our staff are again part of the lighthouse lab challenges that we're seeing, and that's again about the turnaround in those tests and, again, there's been a lot of commentary across the UK about that. We're again looking at whether we can use NHS Wales resources in areas of highest transmission and to try to—[Inaudible.]—faster and more predicable turnaround for a limited period of time.

On the domiciliary and residential care, they are again a priority—those staff—for the flu vaccination programme, because they are, by definition, working with groups of vulnerable people. And when it comes to non-COVID treatment and harm, it's one of the four harms we recognise in our national approach, and it's again set out very clearly in the winter protection plans. So, again, we've set out in the plan what we're doing to see that continue as much as possible throughout the period of the winter and, indeed, the message that myself and the NHS chief exec have given about the need to not just to restart those, but to see further plans for those in the quarter 3 and quarter 4 framework. Because I recognise that the harm that comes from a national lockdown—it's not just the economic harm, which almost always has a health consequence as well, but it's potentially the harm to those other forms of non-COVID treatment that may not go ahead and take place, either because we have to pause those, because we're seeing more people coming to hospitals with COVID, or, indeed, because the public, as they have done in the first wave, choose not to take part because they're more concerned about acquiring coronavirus.

So, there aren't simple and straightforward answers here. The plan we set out today talks about how we'll balance those priorities and, again, look to make and deliver further improvement. And you can expect to hear more from the Government over the winter about what we have and have not managed to do successfully in our unfinished fight with coronavirus.

Thank you. We are two thirds of the way through this time-wise, and I still have a number of speakers, so I'm going to have to ask for some brevity, both of questions and of answers. Mandy Jones.

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. Minister, thank you for your statement today and the opportunity for me to contribute. The sense of dread after everything the health service and the public have been through this year, I send my best wishes and—[Inaudible.]—all of the challenges and dangers that brings, especially to those who are vulnerable. I've heard your winter protection plan and I'm very concerned that its main focus appears to be a look back at lockdown, a response to a second winter wave of COVID. As we head into the winter and the predictable number of illnesses and, sadly, deaths—many of these of the respiratory system—question 1: how will the public and the medical professionals differentiate between the usual winter-type illnesses and COVID-19, when the symptoms are very similar to each other?

Minister, we had an exchange in July when I referred to the effects of lockdown on non-COVID-related illnesses, and you mentioned the need to balance different harms like you've done again today. One of the biggest worries has to be suspected cancer. Minister—[Inaudible.]—modelling shows that, across the UK, there could be around 35,000 extra cancer deaths as a result of COVID-19. In Wales, between March and June, there were around 1,600 fewer urgent cancer referrals. There is clearly a huge backlog of patients, as you've mentioned, who will need diagnostic testing for suspected cancers who aren't in the system at all yet. When these patients do present, this will no doubt cause capacity constraint in diagnostic services, and we're all acutely aware that delays for patients could cause a late diagnosis of cancer, fewer treatment options and less chance of survival. I do see consideration of this in your plan, so can you tell the Chamber what the Welsh Government is doing to make sure diagnostic services are completely ready and what arrangements are being made for follow-on treatment and surgeries, all of this in the context of winter pressures? While we couldn't foresee the demands of the Welsh NHS of COVID-19 in the early days, the curve was flattened and, of course, you are keeping a close eye on the numbers of cases now and using the levers available to counter any rises in numbers. Surely, though, you must agree with me that the NHS in Wales cannot remain in a state of suspended animation, as it currently appears to be, and waiting lists for elective surgery need to get started again. Can you inform the Chamber how the lockdown has impaired waiting lists—sorry, has impacted waiting lists—and what your plan is for addressing this? A hip replacement or a cataract removal becomes an emergency when the former causes a fall and the latter causes blindness.

Finally, lockdown, job losses, working from home and a different reality to get used to has the potential to affect the nation's mental health, as we've previously said—what capacity has the Welsh NHS got to deal with this? 

And in closing, Minister, can I tell you that, despite what you say about the NHS being open for business, there appears to be a real disjoint between what you say and what constituents are experiencing, where simple and necessary procedures are not taking place? Appointments are impossible to get. With the winter pressures coming, I fear that nothing will change anytime soon and I hope you'll—[Inaudible.]