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Y Cyfarfod Llawn



Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair. 

The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

1. Cwestiynau i'r Prif Weinidog
1. Questions to the First Minister

Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni'r prynhawn yma yw'r cwestiynau i'r Prif Weinidog, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Neil Hamilton.

The first item on our agenda today is questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from Neil Hamilton.

Y Canlyniadau PISA Diweddaraf
The Latest PISA Results

1. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i'r canlyniadau PISA diweddaraf i gael eu cyhoeddi? OAQ54169

1. Will the First Minister provide an update on the Welsh Government's response to the latest published PISA results? OAQ54169

Llywydd, the last available Programme for International Student Assessment results were published in 2016. Since that time, the Welsh Government has put in place an ambitious programme of education reform, designed to raise standards, reduce the attainment gap and improve educational performance.

Llywydd, cyhoeddwyd y canlyniadau diwethaf sydd ar gael ar gyfer y Rhaglen Ryngwladol Asesu Myfyrwyr yn 2016. Ers hynny, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cyflwyno rhaglen uchelgeisiol o ddiwygio addysg, sydd â'r nod o godi safonau, lleihau'r bwlch cyrhaeddiad a gwella perfformiad addysgol.

Well, last time, the PISA results in Wales were worse than any other part of the United Kingdom, and that was the fourth time in succession that that dismal position was reached. The results will be out later in the year. Will the First Minister join me in confidently predicting that nothing much has changed? Last week, Lee Waters, in a moment of refreshing candour, said that the Labour Government has no real idea what it's doing with the economy. The state of the health service proves it has no idea what it's doing in health, and the state of the education service means that it has no idea what it's doing in education either.

Wel, y tro diwethaf, roedd y canlyniadau PISA yng Nghymru yn waeth nag yn unrhyw ran arall o'r Deyrnas Unedig, a dyna'r pedwerydd tro yn olynol y cyrhaeddwyd y sefyllfa druenus honno. Bydd y canlyniadau yn cael eu cyhoeddi yn ddiweddarach yn y flwyddyn. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ymuno â mi i ragweld yn ffyddiog nad oes fawr ddim wedi newid? Yr wythnos diwethaf, dywedodd Lee Waters, mewn eiliad o onestrwydd i'w groesawu, nad oes gan y Llywodraeth Lafur unrhyw syniad mewn gwirionedd o beth y mae'n ei wneud gyda'r economi. Mae cyflwr y gwasanaeth iechyd yn profi nad oes ganddi unrhyw syniad o beth mae'n ei wneud ym maes iechyd, ac mae cyflwr y gwasanaeth addysg yn golygu nad oes ganddi unrhyw syniad o beth mae'n ei wneud ym maes addysg ychwaith.

Llywydd, I think the question was whether I would join the Member in speculating about the results. I won't do that. The results will be available later in the autumn, and we look forward to debating them then.

Llywydd, rwy'n credu mai'r cwestiwn oedd a wnaf i ymuno â'r aelod i ddyfalu ynghylch y canlyniadau. Ni wnaf i hynny. Bydd y canlyniadau ar gael yn ddiweddarach yn yr hydref, ac edrychwn ymlaen at eu trafod bryd hynny.

First Minister, like it or not, the PISA results are a well-recognised measure of Wales's performance on education—recognised across the world. Within Wales, we are still uncertain as to how illuminating the new framework for measuring school performance will be and how it will be read in the context of the international comparators. What research has the Government done on whether our PISA results impact on overseas investors' decisions to commit to Wales, and do we know yet whether pupils in Wales will still be invited—randomly—to sit the PISA tests when the new curriculum is introduced?

Prif Weinidog, pa un a ydych chi'n ei hoffi ai peidio, mae'r canlyniadau PISA yn fesur a gydnabyddir yn eang o berfformiad Cymru o ran addysg—fe'u cydnabyddir ledled y byd. Yng Nghymru, rydym ni'n dal yn ansicr ynghylch pa mor ddadlennol fydd y fframwaith newydd ar gyfer mesur perfformiad ysgolion a sut y bydd yn cael ei ddarllen yng nghyd-destun y cymaryddion rhyngwladol. Pa waith ymchwil y mae'r Llywodraeth wedi ei wneud i weld a yw ein canlyniadau PISA yn effeithio ar benderfyniadau buddsoddwyr tramor i ymrwymo i Gymru, ac a ydym ni'n gwybod eto a fydd disgyblion yng Nghymru yn dal i gael eu gwahodd—ar hap—i sefyll y profion PISA pan fydd y cwricwlwm newydd yn cael ei gyflwyno?

Llywydd, I know of no research that refers to the Member's first question, and I'm not surprised at that, because the tenuous link between the two propositions didn't seem to me, at first glance, to merit research. As to the second point the Member makes, well, of course, PISA is an Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development measure, and the OECD say that we are doing the right things here in Wales. I have seen nothing that suggests to me that the PISA methodology would not be used here in Wales when the new curriculum is in operation.

Llywydd, nid wyf i'n ymwybodol o unrhyw waith ymchwil sy'n cyfeirio at gwestiwn cyntaf yr Aelod, ac nid wyf i'n synnu at hynny, oherwydd nid oedd y cysylltiad tenau rhwng y ddau gynnig yn ymddangos i mi, ar yr olwg gyntaf, yn deilwng o ymchwil. O ran yr ail bwynt y mae'r Aelod yn ei wneud, wel, wrth gwrs, mae PISA yn un o fesurau'r Sefydliad ar gyfer Cydweithrediad a Datblygiad Economaidd, ac mae'r OECD yn dweud ein bod ni'n gwneud y pethau iawn yma yng Nghymru. Nid wyf i wedi gweld dim sy'n awgrymu i mi na fyddai'r dull PISA yn cael ei ddefnyddio yma yng Nghymru pan fydd y cwricwlwm newydd yn weithredol.

Cefnogi'r Stryd Fawr yng Nghymru
Supporting High Streets In Wales

2. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi'r stryd fawr yng Nghymru? OAQ54147

2. Will the First Minister make a statement on how the Welsh Government supports high streets in Wales? OAQ54147

I thank Jack Sargeant for that, Llywydd. Supporting our town centres and high streets is a major part of our regeneration effort. Taking into account levered-in funding, by the time our current programme is complete, over £800 million will have been invested in our town centres since 2014.

Diolchaf i Jack Sargeant am hynna, Llywydd. Mae cefnogi canol ein trefi a'n strydoedd mawr yn rhan fawr o'n hymdrech adfywio. O gymryd cyllid a ysgogwyd i ystyriaeth, erbyn yr adeg y bydd ein rhaglen bresennol wedi ei chwblhau, bydd dros £800 miliwn wedi ei fuddsoddi yng nghanol ein trefi ers 2014.

Can I thank the First Minister for that response? You will know, as Members will know across the Chamber, that a big impact on our high streets across Wales has been the closure of banks, which has been particularly damaging in Buckley in my constituency. Assembly research shows that more than 200 banks have shut in Wales since 2008. Llywydd, this presents a huge challenge for many, including the elderly and our most vulnerable people, who often rely on face-to-face services. Llywydd, I was very pleased to read the First Minister's response to me on this issue, to a letter I wrote to him recently. So, would the First Minister agree with me that we need to prioritise the idea of a community bank for Wales, ensure that pilot areas are strategically located, and that we must restore these much-needed and valued services?

A gaf i ddiolch i'r Prif Weinidog am yr ymateb yna? Byddwch yn gwybod, fel y bydd Aelodau'n gwybod ar draws y Siambr, mai un effaith sylweddol ar ein strydoedd mawr ledled Cymru fu cau banciau, sydd wedi bod yn arbennig o niweidiol ym Mwcle yn fy etholaeth i. Mae gwaith ymchwil y Cynulliad yn dangos bod dros 200 o fanciau wedi cau yng Nghymru ers 2008. Llywydd, mae hon yn her enfawr i lawer, gan gynnwys yr henoed a'n pobl sydd fwyaf agored i niwed, sy'n aml yn dibynnu ar wasanaethau wyneb yn wyneb. Llywydd, roeddwn i'n falch iawn o ddarllen ymateb y Prif Weinidog i mi ar y mater hwn, i lythyr a ysgrifennais ato yn ddiweddar. Felly, a yw'r Prif Weinidog yn cytuno â mi bod angen i ni flaenoriaethu'r syniad o fanc cymunedol i Gymru, sicrhau bod ardaloedd arbrofi wedi eu lleoli'n strategol, a bod yn rhaid i ni adfer y gwasanaethau hyn y mae wir eu hangen ac sy'n cael eu gwerthfawrogi?

Llywydd, I thank Jack Sargeant for that. When he quotes the figure of 200 banks having closed in Wales in recent times, that illustrates the point he made about the way in which this touches almost every constituency and every Member here in the Chamber. That is why we are committed to doing everything possible to support and test the feasibility of creating a community bank for Wales. And the Welsh Government is actively involved with a number of stakeholders in this area. We're taking expert advice through those organisations that have already began this journey. There are challenges, as I explained in my correspondence with the Member. You have to have regulatory approval, through some quite complex machinery, and we will need help with that, and you need to secure the support of local populations in order that a community bank will have customers and people who are willing to deposit with them. In that regard, it's been very good to see Banc Cambria establish itself here in Wales. It held a special general meeting on 28 June in Llandrindod. I understand it was well attended and successful, and, working with community-based organisations, as part of our efforts to create the bank, will, we believe, be part of the recipe that will make it successful.   

Llywydd, diolchaf i Jack Sargeant am hynna. Pan fo'n dyfynnu'r ffigur o 200 o fanciau sydd wedi cau yng Nghymru yn ddiweddar, mae hynny'n dangos y pwynt a wnaeth am y ffordd y mae hyn yn effeithio ar bron pob etholaeth a phob Aelod sydd yma yn y Siambr. Dyna pam yr ydym ni wedi ymrwymo i wneud popeth posibl i gefnogi a phrofi ymarferoldeb creu banc cymunedol i Gymru. Ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymwneud yn weithredol â nifer o randdeiliaid yn y maes hwn. Rydym ni'n cymryd cyngor arbenigol drwy'r sefydliadau hynny sydd eisoes wedi cychwyn ar y daith hon. Ceir heriau, fel yr esboniais yn fy ngohebiaeth gyda'r Aelod. Mae'n rhaid i chi gael cymeradwyaeth reoliadol, trwy rai prosesau dra chymhleth, a bydd angen cymorth arnom ni gyda hynny, ac mae angen i chi sicrhau cefnogaeth poblogaethau lleol fel y bydd gan fanc cymunedol gwsmeriaid a phobl sy'n barod i adneuo â nhw. Yn hynny o beth, mae wedi bod yn dda iawn gweld Banc Cambria yn sefydlu ei hun yma yng Nghymru. Cynhaliodd gyfarfod cyffredinol arbennig ar 28 Mehefin yn Llandrindod. Deallaf fod llawer yn bresennol a'i fod yn llwyddiannus, ac, yn ein barn ni, bydd gweithio gyda sefydliadau cymunedol, yn rhan o'n hymdrechion i greu'r banc, yn rhan o'r rysáit a fydd yn ei wneud yn llwyddiannus.


Mae ymadawiad y banciau o'r stryd fawr, wrth gwrs, yn gadael gwagle sydd angen ei lenwi, ac mae yna sawl enghraifft o fusnesau yn cymryd drosodd y banciau, tra rydym, wrth gwrs, ar yr un pryd yn chwilio am ffyrdd newydd i ddod â gwasanaethau ariannol i mewn i'n trefi ni. Ond mae yna achos un busnes yn fy etholaeth i sy'n ceisio buddsoddi mewn troi banc yn fusnes yn y sector hamdden. Mi oedd yna gyllid grant i fod i ddod gan y Llywodraeth i'w helpu nhw yn hynny o beth. Mi oedd y pot o arian yr oedd yn mynd i gael ei ddefnyddio yn wag erbyn i'r cais gyrraedd. A all y Prif Weinidog roi sicrwydd y bydd pob cyfle yn cael ei chwilio amdano fo i sicrhau bod y potiau yma o arian yn ddigonol ar gyfer busnesau fel hyn, ac a ydy o'n barod i edrych i mewn i'r hyn ddigwyddodd yn yr achos hwn? 

The departure of the banks from our high streets does leave a gap that needs to be filled, and there are a number of examples of businesses taking over bank premises, whilst we are also looking at ways to bring financial services back into our town centres. But there is the case of one business in my constituency that is trying to invest in turning a bank into a business in the leisure sector. There was some grant funding supposed to be available from Government to help them in that regard. The pot of money that was to be used was empty by the time the application arrived. Can the First Minister give us an assurance that all opportunities will be sought to ensure that these pots of funding are sufficient for businesses such as this one, and is he willing to look into what happened in this particular case?

Wel, wrth gwrs, Llywydd, dwi'n hapus i edrych i mewn i'r achos mae'r Aelod wedi codi. Rŷn ni'n gwybod, pan fo'r arian ar gael, fod lot o ddiddordeb ledled Cymru gyda busnesau sydd eisiau sefydlu a thyfu hefyd. So, dwi'n gallu gweld pam, pan fydd rhai pobl yn mynd at y gronfa, does dim arian ar ôl, ond, wrth gwrs, dwi'n hapus i edrych ar yr achos mae Rhun ap Iorwerth wedi'i godi. 

Well, of course, Llywydd,  I’m happy to look into the case that the Member has raised. We know that, when funds are available, there’s a great deal of interest the length and breadth of Wales among businesses who want to establish and to grow. So, I can see why, when some people do turn to certain funds, there is nothing left, but I will be happy to look into the case that Rhun ap Iorwerth has raised.

Jack Sargeant has raised an important question regarding banks, First Minister, and we know that there have been a spate of closures across Wales, which have caused concern for local people. In my own area, the town of Usk lost all its banks in quick succession and then the post office—the only financial service that was left—was also under threat. That's been saved through joint action taken by the council and other groups to move it into the local community hub. I imagine that is happening elsewhere. If not, it's possibly good practice that can be used in other towns across Wales to make sure that, when towns do lose their banks and the post office is under threat, there is still access to all-important financial services for vulnerable people who need them. 

Mae Jack Sargeant wedi codi cwestiwn pwysig am fanciau, Prif Weinidog, ac rydym ni'n gwybod y bu llu o achosion o gau banciau ledled Cymru, sydd wedi peri pryder i bobl leol. Yn fy ardal i fy hun, collodd tref Brynbuga ei holl fanciau un ar ôl ei gilydd yn gyflym iawn ac yna roedd swyddfa'r post—yr unig wasanaeth ariannol a oedd ar ôl—hefyd dan fygythiad. Achubwyd honno trwy gamau ar y cyd a gymerwyd gan y cyngor a grwpiau eraill i'w symud i'r ganolfan gymunedol leol. Tybiaf fod hynny'n digwydd mewn mannau eraill. Os nad yw, efallai ei fod yn arfer y gellir ei ddefnyddio mewn trefi eraill ledled Cymru i wneud yn siŵr, pan fydd trefi yn colli eu banciau a bod swyddfa'r post dan fygythiad, bod gwasanaethau ariannol hollbwysig yn dal i fod ar gael i bobl agored i niwed sydd eu hangen nhw.

Well, I thank Nick Ramsay for making that important point. The Welsh Government has long supported post offices right across Wales, and we absolutely see the point that the Member makes. And, in answering Jack Sargeant's question, I should maybe have said that, in developing the idea of a community bank for Wales, we are absolutely determined that it must be a complementary part of that wider set of financial services, whether that is credit unions, whether it is post offices, or, at the other end of the spectrum, the Development Bank of Wales. We want a community bank that fills a proper space in the range of financial services we have, and the ongoing contribution that post offices make in many communities in Wales is one that we recognise. 

Wel, diolchaf i Nick Ramsay am wneud y pwynt pwysig yna. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cefnogi swyddfeydd post ledled Cymru ers tro, ac rydym ni'n gweld y pwynt y mae'r Aelod yn ei wneud yn llwyr. Ac, wrth ateb cwestiwn Jack Sargeant, efallai y dylwn i fod wedi dweud, wrth ddatblygu'r syniad o fanc cymunedol i Gymru, ein bod ni'n gwbl benderfynol bod yn rhaid iddo fod yn rhan ategol o'r gyfres ehangach honno o wasanaethau ariannol, boed nhw'n undebau credyd, boed nhw'n swyddfeydd post, neu, ar ben arall y sbectrwm, Banc Datblygu Cymru. Rydym ni eisiau banc cymunedol sy'n llenwi bwlch priodol yn yr amrywiaeth o wasanaethau ariannol sydd gennym ni, ac mae'r cyfraniad parhaus y mae swyddfeydd post yn ei wneud mewn llawer o gymunedau yng Nghymru yn un yr ydym ni'n ei gydnabod.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Arweinwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

Cwestiynau nawr gan arweinwyr y pleidiau. Arweinydd Plaid Cymru, Adam Price. 

We now turn to questions from party leaders. The leader of Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, the ministerial code says Ministers should apologise if they say something that is wrong. Why should your Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport have to apologise for saying something that is right? [Laughter.]

Diolch, Llywydd. Prif Weinidog, mae cod y gweinidogion yn dweud y dylai Gweinidogion ymddiheuro os byddant yn dweud rhywbeth sy'n anghywir. Pam dylai eich Dirprwy Weinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth orfod ymddiheuro am ddweud rhywbeth sy'n iawn? [Chwerthin.]

Well, Llywydd, I don't believe that to be the case. 

Wel, Llywydd, nid wyf i'n credu bod hynny'n wir.

Which bit? Are you denying—? The BBC is reporting that the economy Minister apologises for his comments about the Welsh economy. I must say, reading the report—reading Ken Skates re-interpreting for us what Lee Waters really meant—was a bit like reading that famous tweet by Andrew Adonis extolling the virtues of Jeremy Corbyn's Brexit policy. Now, I can understand your difficulty with the first part of Lee Water's statement,

'For 20 years we've pretended we know what we're doing on the economy—and the truth is we don't',

though I think he is absolutely right that conventional thinking has failed, and it's failed here in Wales more clearly than anywhere else. But the second part of his statement in simply a statement of fact that you've achieved static gross domestic product, in relative terms, over 20 years. The Government in which you were a senior adviser set a target of achieving 90 per cent of UK income per head. In fact, we're now in the low 70s—exactly where we were, as Lee Waters says, 20 years ago. Surely it should be the Welsh Government as a whole that should be apologising for that, not your deputy economy Minister for simply pointing it out? 

Pa ddarn? A ydych chi'n gwadu—? Mae'r BBC yn adrodd bod Gweinidog yr economi yn ymddiheuro am ei sylwadau ar economi Cymru. Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, o ddarllen yr adroddiad—darllen Ken Skates yn ail-ddehongli i ni yr hyn yr oedd Lee Waters yn ei olygu mewn gwirionedd—braidd yn debyg i ddarllen y neges trydar enwog honno gan Andrew Adonis yn clodfori rhinweddau polisi Brexit Jeremy Corbyn. Nawr, gallaf ddeall eich anhawster gyda rhan gyntaf datganiad Lee Waters,

Am 20 mlynedd rydym ni wedi cymryd arnom ein bod ni'n gwybod beth yr ydym ni'n ei wneud o ran yr economi—a'r gwir yw nad ydym ni,

er fy mod i'n credu ei fod yn llygad ei le bod syniadau confensiynol wedi methu, a'u bod wedi methu yma yng Nghymru yn fwy eglur nag yn unman arall. Ond y cwbl yw ail ran ei ddatganiad yw datganiad o ffaith eich bod chi wedi sicrhau cynnyrch mewnwladol gros sefydlog, o safbwynt cymharol, am 20 mlynedd. Pennodd y Llywodraeth yr oeddech chi'n uwch gynghorydd ynddi darged o sicrhau 90 y cant o incwm y DU fesul pen. Mewn gwirionedd, rydym ni yn y 70au isel erbyn hyn—yn union lle'r oeddem ni, fel y dywed Lee Waters, 20 mlynedd yn ôl. Siawns mai Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei chyfanrwydd ddylai fod yn ymddiheuro am hynny, nid eich dirprwy Weinidog yr economi am wneud dim mwy na thynnu sylw at hynny?

Well, Llywydd, let me put the record straight here. When Lee Waters was reported, he was speaking in an unscripted way in a discussion with an audience, and I want Ministers in a Welsh Government who are able to debate issues with others and who are able to provide challenge to Government itself in the way that our policies are carried out. The truth about the Welsh economy over that 20 years is that we end it with the highest levels of employment we have ever had. We end it with the lowest levels of economic inactivity we have ever had. We end it with one of the highest levels of business growth that we have ever had. We have the best regional performance in creating jobs through inward investment of any part of the United Kingdom. We have exports rising in Wales again last year, by 7.5 per cent. These are the facts of the Welsh economy, and I was very pleased to meet Ieuan Wyn Jones again last night and to hear him talk about the time that he was in charge of the Welsh economy and the policies that he pursued there. I noticed that when the Member, as he does, casts his wide glance across 20 years, he never reminds us of the fact that his party was in charge of the economy during the time that he just told me everything was failing throughout. I don't agree with him. It wasn't failing then. It hasn't failed through the 20 years either. Where Lee Waters was absolutely correct was to point to the fact that, in an economy that is challenged by austerity, that is challenged by Brexit, that is challenged by automation, that is challenged by globalisation, the ways in which all Governments have responded to economic challenges over the last 20 years will not themselves be sufficient for the next 20 years, and therefore we will need new solutions, new experimentation, different ways of addressing these challenges, and, in that, he was absolutely correct.

Wel, Llywydd, gadewch i mi nodi'r gwir yn y fan yma. Pan adroddwyd geiriau Lee Waters, roedd yn siarad mewn modd heb ei sgriptio mewn trafodaeth gyda chynulleidfa, ac rwyf i eisiau Gweinidogion mewn Llywodraeth Cymru sy'n gallu trafod materion ag eraill ac yn gallu herio'r Llywodraeth ei hun o ran y ffordd y mae ein polisïau'n cael eu gweithredu. Y gwir am economi Cymru dros yr 20 mlynedd hynny yw ein bod ni'n eu cloi gyda'r lefelau cyflogaeth uchaf a fu gennym erioed. Rydym ni'n eu cloi gyda'r lefelau isaf o anweithgarwch economaidd a fu gennym erioed. Rydym ni'n eu cloi gydag un o'r lefelau twf busnes uchaf a fu gennym erioed. Mae gennym ni'r perfformiad rhanbarthol gorau o ran creu swyddi drwy fewnfuddsoddiad o'i gymharu ag unrhyw ran o'r Deyrnas Unedig. Mae gennym ni allforion a gynyddodd yng Nghymru unwaith eto y llynedd, 7.5 y cant. Dyma ffeithiau economi Cymru, ac roeddwn i'n falch iawn o gyfarfod â Ieuan Wyn Jones unwaith eto neithiwr a'i glywed yn siarad am yr adeg pan yr oedd ef yn gyfrifol am economi Cymru a'r polisïau a ddilynodd bryd hynny. Sylwais pan fydd yr Aelod, fel y mae'n arfer ei wneud, yn bwrw ei olwg eang ar draws 20 mlynedd, nad yw byth yn ein hatgoffa o'r ffaith bod ei blaid ef yn gyfrifol am yr economi yn ystod yr adeg y mae newydd ddweud wrthyf fi bod popeth yn methu drwyddi draw. Nid wyf i'n cytuno ag ef. Nid oedd yn methu bryd hynny. Nid yw wedi methu drwy'r 20 mlynedd ychwaith. Lle'r oedd Lee Waters yn gwbl gywir oedd i dynnu sylw at y ffaith, mewn economi sy'n cael ei herio gan gyni cyllidol, sy'n cael ei herio gan Brexit, sy'n cael ei herio gan awtomeiddio, sy'n cael ei herio gan bwysau globaleiddio, na fydd y ffyrdd y mae pob Llywodraeth wedi ymateb i heriau economaidd dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf yn ddigonol ynddynt eu hunain ar gyfer yr 20 mlynedd nesaf, ac felly byddwn ni angen atebion newydd, arbrofi newydd, gwahanol ffyrdd o fynd i'r afael â'r heriau hyn, ac yn hynny o beth, roedd yn llygad ei le.


Look, if you are saying you welcome, actually, critical challenge for Ministers and going off script, why has he been asked or has he felt it necessary to issue an apology? Talking about automation, the last thing we want is Ministers that act like robots. Lee Waters is correct in his analysis, and actually, as you mention Ieuan Wyn Jones, Ieuan, when he was Minister, published an economic strategy that said the economic model, emphasising foreign direct investment over indigenous investment, emphasising grants over loans, was the wrong model. Ieuan was right then; Lee Waters is right now. Unfortunately, policy has not changed, and that's the reality that I think has been laid bare by Lee Waters's comments. Now, one of the consequences of this, as the Wales Governance Centre points out today, is the fiscal gap between the revenue raised in Wales and public expenditure. Do you think that closing that gap and, by implication, the income gap between Wales and the rest of the UK, should be an explicit goal of your Government? Will you set a target this time that you will endeavour actually to achieve?

Edrychwch, os ydych chi'n dweud eich bod chi'n croesawu, mewn gwirionedd, her feirniadol i Weinidogion a gwyro o'r sgript, pam y gofynnwyd iddo neu y mae wedi teimlo ei bod yn angenrheidiol iddo ymddiheuro? Gan ein bod ni'n sôn am awtomeiddio, y peth diwethaf yr ydym ni ei eisiau yw Gweinidogion sy'n ymddwyn fel robotiaid. Mae Lee Waters yn gywir yn ei ddadansoddiad, ac a dweud y gwir, gan eich bod chi'n sôn am Ieuan Wyn Jones, cyhoeddodd Ieuan, pan oedd yn Weinidog, strategaeth economaidd a oedd yn dweud nad y model economaidd, yn pwysleisio buddsoddiad uniongyrchol o dramor dros fuddsoddiad cynhenid, yn pwysleisio grantiau dros fenthyciadau, oedd y model cywir. Roedd Ieuan yn iawn bryd hynny; mae Lee Waters yn iawn nawr. Yn anffodus, nid yw'r polisi wedi newid, a dyna'r realiti sydd, yn fy marn i, wedi ei amlygu gan sylwadau Lee Waters. Nawr, un o ganlyniadau hyn, fel y mae Canolfan Llywodraethiant Cymru yn ei nodi heddiw, yw'r bwlch cyllidol rhwng y refeniw a godir yng Nghymru a gwariant cyhoeddus. A ydych chi'n credu y dylai cau'r bwlch hwnnw a, thrwy oblygiad, y bwlch incwm rhwng Cymru a gweddill y DU, fod yn nod pendant i'ch Llywodraeth? A wnewch chi bennu targed y tro hwn y byddwch chi'n ymdrechu mewn gwirionedd i'w gyrraedd?

Well, I think closing the fiscal gap is a proper ambition for any Welsh Government. It would certainly have to be an ambition for a Government led by the Member that seeks to take Wales out of the United Kingdom, because then he will have to find a way of explaining to the Welsh electorate how the £13 billion that is spent in Wales above that which is raised in taxes here in Wales is to be filled by his Government when that £13 billion is no longer available to spend on public services here in Wales. So, yes, the Member makes an important point, but the importance of the point really is—for any party that seeks to take Wales out of the United Kingdom and then to ask the question—how will people in Wales manage then, when they have not just a bit of a gap, but £13 billion-worth of a gap that his party would have to find a way to fill? And they can't, and they know they can't, and they will have to explain it.

Wel, rwy'n credu bod cau'r bwlch cyllidol yn uchelgais wirioneddol i unrhyw Lywodraeth Cymru. Yn sicr, byddai'n rhaid iddo fod yn uchelgais i Lywodraeth dan arweiniad yr Aelod sy'n ceisio tynnu Cymru allan o'r Deyrnas Unedig, oherwydd wedyn bydd yn rhaid iddo ddod o hyd i ffordd o esbonio i etholwyr Cymru sut y bydd y £13 biliwn sy'n cael ei wario yng Nghymru yn uwch na'r hyn a godir mewn trethi yma yng Nghymru yn cael ei lenwi gan ei Lywodraeth pan nad yw'r £13 biliwn hynny ar gael mwyach i'w wario ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus yma yng Nghymru. Felly, ydy, mae'r Aelod yn gwneud pwynt pwysig, ond pwysigrwydd y pwynt mewn gwirionedd—i unrhyw blaid sy'n ceisio tynnu Cymru allan o'r Deyrnas Unedig ac yna gofyn y cwestiwn—sut y gwnaiff pobl Cymru ymdopi wedyn, pan na fydd ganddyn nhw nid dim ond ychydig o fwlch, ond gwerth £13 biliwn o fwlch y byddai'n rhaid i'w blaid ddod o hyd i ffordd i'w lenwi? Ac ni allan' nhw wneud hynny, ac maen nhw'n gwybod na allan' nhw wneud hynny, a bydd yn rhaid iddyn nhw ei esbonio.

Arweinydd yr wrthblaid, Paul Davies.

The leader of the opposition, Paul Davies.

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, can you give us an update on maternity services at Withybush hospital? 

Diolch, Llywydd. Prif Weinidog, a allwch chi roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i ni am wasanaethau mamolaeth yn ysbyty Llwynhelyg?

Services at Withybush hospital continue to be based on a midwife-led unit. I've seen reports in the press that suggest that that midwife-led unit is somehow not to be part of the service provided by Withybush in the future. My understanding is that that is not the case—that discussions go on with staff in Withybush on how better to integrate the midwife-led unit with community midwife services. That seems to me to be a sensible ambition for the health board—to make the best use of the staff it has and to offer the best services to the people who need them. In all of that, there is no suggestion that the midwife-led unit will not continue to be available 24 hours every day.

Mae gwasanaethau yn ysbyty Llwynhelyg yn parhau i fod yn seiliedig ar uned dan arweiniad bydwragedd. Rwyf i wedi gweld adroddiadau yn y wasg sy'n awgrymu na fydd yr uned dan arweiniad bydwragedd rywsut yn rhan o'r gwasanaeth a ddarperir gan Lwynhelyg yn y dyfodol. Fy nealltwriaeth i yw nad yw hynny'n wir—bod trafodaethau yn parhau gyda staff yn ysbyty Llwynhelyg ynglŷn â sut i integreiddio'r uned dan arweiniad bydwragedd yn well gyda gwasanaethau bydwragedd cymunedol. Mae hynny'n ymddangos i mi fel uchelgais synhwyrol i'r bwrdd iechyd—i wneud y defnydd gorau o'r staff sydd ganddo a chynnig y gwasanaethau gorau i'r bobl sydd eu hangen nhw. Yn hynny i gyd, nid oes unrhyw awgrym na fydd yr uned dan arweiniad bydwragedd yn parhau i fod ar gael am 24 awr bob dydd.


First Minister, senior management at Hywel Dda University Health Board have made it absolutely clear in comments today to the press that they are planning to change maternity services at the hospital, and it is a disgrace that the maternity services are being reduced to an on-call, out-of-hours service despite your previous comments that they weren't. Let me remind you what you said to me in March in this very Chamber, and I quote: 

'there are no proposals of any sort to make a change in the service provided there.'

This is just symptomatic of your Government's approach, isn't it, to our Welsh NHS? You tell us one thing in this Chamber but what you actually do is completely different. So far in our exchanges we've spoken about Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board being in special measures for more than four years, and Cwm Taf Health Board entering special measures, and now we see, in the last few days, Swansea Bay University Health Board in the news. The former chair, who I think you know quite well, First Minister, Andrew Davies, has been scathing at the micromanaging of the health board by your Government. Do you agree with him that the degree of scrutiny is not actually helping the health board sort out its problems?

Prif Weinidog, mae uwch reolwyr ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Hywel Dda wedi ei gwneud yn gwbl eglur mewn sylwadau heddiw i'r wasg eu bod nhw'n bwriadu newid gwasanaethau mamolaeth yn yr ysbyty, ac mae'n warth bod y gwasanaethau mamolaeth yn cael eu lleihau i wasanaeth ar alwad, y tu allan i oriau arferol er gwaethaf eich sylwadau blaenorol nad oedden nhw. Gadewch i mi eich atgoffa o'r hyn a ddywedasoch wrthyf ym mis Mawrth yn yr union Siambr hon, a dyfynnaf:

'nid oes unrhyw gynigion o unrhyw fath i wneud newid i'r gwasanaeth a ddarperir yno.'

Mae hyn yn nodweddiadol iawn o ddull eich Llywodraeth, onid yw, tuag at ein GIG yng Nghymru? Rydych chi'n dweud un peth wrthym ni yn y Siambr hon ond mae'r hyn yr ydych chi'n ei wneud mewn gwirionedd yn gwbl wahanol. Hyd yma, yn ein trafodaethau, rydym ni wedi sôn am y ffaith fod Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr wedi bod yn destun mesurau arbennig am fwy na phedair blynedd, a Bwrdd Iechyd Cwm Taf yn dod yn destun mesurau arbennig, ac rydym ni'n gweld nawr, yn ystod y dyddiau diwethaf, Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Bae Abertawe yn y newyddion. Mae'r cyn-gadeirydd, yr wyf i'n credu eich bod chi'n ei adnabod yn eithaf da, Prif Weinidog, Andrew Davies, wedi bod yn feirniadol iawn o ficroreoli'r bwrdd iechyd gan eich Llywodraeth. A ydych chi'n cytuno ag ef nad yw graddau'r craffu mewn gwirionedd yn helpu'r bwrdd iechyd i ddatrys ei broblemau?

Llywydd, the Member asked me a first question about the detail of a single unit in a single hospital in one part of Wales, and expected me, as I'm keen to do, to be able to answer that question. He then wants to accuse the Welsh Government of micromanaging the health service in Wales. He really cannot have it both ways. The Welsh Government quite rightly takes a proper interest in the discharge of health board responsibilities, and when health boards face challenges, as, for example, the Swansea Bay health board faced challenges over this last winter in making sure that there was access to emergency services for patients in that area, it is absolutely right and proper that the Welsh Government takes a direct interest in that, and we do so in the winter in particular because we are able to assist health boards in making sure that patients can be directed to that part of the health service where facilities are most immediately available to them. 

So, I don't have any apology to make for the fact that the Welsh Government takes that direct interest. We do so on behalf of patients in Wales. But it's impossible, Llywydd, for the Member to assert on the one hand that it is wrong for the Welsh Government to take an interest in what health boards do and then expect to ask questions here about very detailed matters that are, in the end, the responsibility of that health board. 

Llywydd, gofynnodd yr Aelod gwestiwn cyntaf i mi am fanylion un uned mewn un ysbyty mewn un rhan o Gymru, gan ddisgwyl i mi allu ateb y cwestiwn hwnnw, fel yr wyf i'n awyddus i'w wneud. Yna, mae'n dymuno cyhuddo Llywodraeth Cymru o ficroreoli'r gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru. Ni all ei chael hi bob ffordd. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru, yn gwbl briodol, yn cymryd diddordeb priodol mewn cyflawni cyfrifoldebau byrddau iechyd, a phan fydd byrddau iechyd yn wynebu heriau, fel, er enghraifft, yr wynebodd bwrdd iechyd Bae Abertawe heriau dros y gaeaf diwethaf hwn o ran gwneud yn siŵr bod mynediad at wasanaethau brys i gleifion yn yr ardal honno, mae'n gwbl gywir a phriodol bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cymryd diddordeb uniongyrchol yn hynny, ac rydym ni'n gwneud hynny yn y gaeaf yn arbennig gan ein bod ni'n gallu cynorthwyo byrddau iechyd i wneud yn siŵr y gellir cyfeirio cleifion i'r rhan honno o'r gwasanaeth iechyd lle mae cyfleusterau ar gael ar iddyn nhw yn fwyaf cyflym.

Felly, nid oes gen i unrhyw ymddiheuriad i'w wneud am y ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cymryd y diddordeb uniongyrchol hwnnw. Rydym ni'n gwneud hynny ar ran cleifion yng Nghymru. Ond mae'n amhosibl, Llywydd, i'r aelod haeru ar y naill law ei bod hi'n anghywir i Lywodraeth Cymru gymryd diddordeb yn yr hyn y mae byrddau iechyd yn ei wneud ac yna disgwyl gofyn cwestiynau yma am faterion manwl iawn sydd, yn y pen draw, yn gyfrifoldeb i'r bwrdd iechyd hwnnw.

Well, this is another health board, First Minister, which is not doing very well, because the accident and emergency waiting times for the health board are 19 per cent below your target—once again, one that has never been met—and complaints about the health board have risen by 29 per cent in 2018. What I find shocking, First Minister, is that Andrew Davies talks about the constant focus on short-term targets, micromanaging by Welsh Government officials, with, as Mr Davies puts it, a degree of scrutiny that is

'not actually helping them get on sorting out the problem'.

Now, in our previous discussions, your health Minister has dismissed the idea of setting targets to get Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board out of special measures, and he's made clear that he won't set arbitrary targets to improve services for local people. So, why, First Minister, is your Government micromanaging one health board but letting another one struggle on? Is it the case that your Deputy Minister for Economy was correct—your Government doesn't know what it's doing?

Wel, bwrdd iechyd arall yw hwn, Prif Weinidog, nad yw'n gwneud yn dda iawn, gan fod yr amseroedd aros mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys ar gyfer y bwrdd iechyd 19 y cant yn is na'ch targed—unwaith eto, un nad yw erioed wedi cael ei gyrraedd—ac mae cwynion am y bwrdd iechyd wedi codi 29 y cant yn 2018. Yr hyn sy'n frawychus i mi, Prif Weinidog, yw bod Andrew Davies yn sôn am y pwyslais cyson ar dargedau tymor byr, microreoli gan swyddogion Llywodraeth Cymru, ac fel y mae Mr Davies yn ei ddweud, gyda rhywfaint o graffu

nad yw'n eu helpu nhw i fwrw ymlaen â datrys y broblem.

Nawr, yn ein trafodaethau blaenorol, mae eich Gweinidog iechyd wedi wfftio'r syniad o bennu targedau i gael Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr allan o fesurau arbennig, ac mae wedi ei gwneud yn eglur na fydd yn pennu targedau mympwyol i wella gwasanaethau i bobl leol. Felly, pam, Prif Weinidog, mae eich Llywodraeth yn microreoli un bwrdd iechyd, ond yn gadael un arall mewn trafferthion? A yw'n wir bod eich Dirprwy Weinidog yr Economi yn gywir—nad yw eich Llywodraeth yn gwybod beth mae'n ei wneud?

Llywydd, the health Minister was 100 per cent correct when he said that we will not set arbitrary targets. Why would we possibly do that? We set targets that we think make sense for the clinical benefit of patients, and if I had answered the Member in the winter, when he asked me questions about ambulances waiting at Morriston Hospital, by saying that this Government is not interested in short-term targets, I can imagine what he would have said about that. That’s the reason why the Welsh Government took a strong interest in the performance of the then Abertawe Bro Morgannwg health board over the winter. That’s why we were engaged on the telephone making sure that everything that could be done was being done, to make sure that there was flow through that hospital, that patients were able to be discharged out of ambulances into the A&E department, seen in a timely fashion, discharged home wherever possible. Those are proper targets. Those are targets that are not arbitrary. Those are targets that focus on the clinical needs of patients, and the Government will never step back from doing what we can do to assist health boards to discharge those targets and to help them to make sure that they are focused on meeting them for patients’ benefit.

Llywydd, roedd y Gweinidog iechyd 100 y cant yn gywir pan ddywedodd na fyddwn yn pennu targedau mympwyol. Pam yn y byd y byddem ni'n gwneud hynny? Rydym ni'n pennu targedau sydd, yn ein tyb ni, yn gwneud synnwyr er budd clinigol cleifion, a phe bawn i wedi ateb yr Aelod yn y gaeaf, pan ofynnodd gwestiynau i mi am ambiwlansys yn aros yn Ysbyty Treforys, trwy ddweud nad oes gan y Llywodraeth hon ddiddordeb mewn targedau tymor byr, gallaf ddychmygu'r hyn y byddai wedi ei ddweud am hynny. Dyna'r rheswm pam y cymerodd Llywodraeth Cymru ddiddordeb mawr ym mherfformiad bwrdd iechyd Abertawe Bro Morgannwg fel yr oedd ar y pryd dros y gaeaf. Dyna pam yr oeddem ni'n ymgysylltu ar y ffôn yn sicrhau bod popeth y gellid ei wneud yn cael ei wneud, er mwyn sicrhau bod llif drwy'r ysbyty hwnnw, bod cleifion yn gallu cael eu rhyddhau o ambiwlansys i mewn i'r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys, yn cael eu gweld yn brydlon, eu rhyddhau gartref pryd bynnag yr oedd hynny'n bosibl. Mae'r rheini'n dargedau priodol. Mae'r rheini'n dargedau nad ydyn nhw yn fympwyol. Mae'r rheini'n dargedau sy'n canolbwyntio ar anghenion clinigol cleifion, ac ni fydd y Llywodraeth byth yn camu'n ôl rhag gwneud yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud i helpu byrddau iechyd i gyrraedd y targedau hynny a'u helpu i wneud yn siŵr eu bod nhw'n canolbwyntio ar eu cyrraedd er budd cleifion.


Arweinydd Plaid Brexit, Mark Reckless.

Leader of the Brexit Party, Mark Reckless.

Last week, the Minister for International Relations and Welsh Language belatedly issued a statement on a visit to Dublin. She said:

'The main focus of my visit was a one-to-one meeting with the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs, Simon Coveney.'

She goes on:

'In all my meetings with Irish government'

there was

'continued incredulity that Wales could have voted the way it did in 2016.'

First Minister, isn’t that deeply inappropriate? How would people in Ireland feel if UK Ministers expressed incredulity about Ireland having voted for independence? Shouldn’t we instead be telling Ireland that if they want to avoid 'no deal', they need to move on the backstop?

Yr wythnos diwethaf, cyhoeddodd y Gweinidog Cysylltiadau Rhyngwladol a'r Gymraeg ddatganiad o'r diwedd ar ymweliad â Dulyn. Meddai:

'Prif ffocws fy ymweliad oedd cyfarfod wyneb yn wyneb gyda'r Tánaiste a'r Gweinidog Materion Tramor, Simon Coveney.'

Mae hi'n mynd yn ei blaen:

'Yn fy holl gyfarfodydd gyda llywodraeth Iwerddon'


'anghrediniaeth o hyd i Gymru bleidleisio fel ag y gwnaeth yn 2016.'

Prif Weinidog, onid yw hynny'n hynod amhriodol? Sut y byddai pobl Iwerddon yn teimlo pe byddai Gweinidogion y DU yn mynegi anghrediniaeth bod Iwerddon wedi pleidleisio o blaid annibyniaeth? Oni ddylem ni, yn hytrach, fod yn dweud wrth Iwerddon bod angen iddyn nhw symud mater y 'backstop' yn ei flaen os ydyn nhw eisiau osgoi sefyllfa 'dim cytundeb'?

Llywydd, on the one hand the Member complains because the Minister for international relations reports what she was told by senior members of the Government in the Republic, and then he wants me to instruct that same Government about attitudes that they should take to the backstop. The things that the Minister reported are the things that we know are said day in and day out about the attitude that the UK Government has taken to the whole Brexit negotiations and about its failure to recognise the significance of the border on the island of Ireland. I was lucky enough, Llywydd, to be able to discuss these matters with the Taoiseach at the British-Irish Council last week. These are really serious matters that affect the peace of communities on the island of Ireland, and simply to dismiss them and to tell another Government how they should approach this matter really does not measure up to the seriousness of those matters at all.

Llywydd, ar y naill law mae'r Aelod yn cwyno oherwydd bod y Gweinidog cysylltiadau rhyngwladol yn adrodd yr hyn a ddywedwyd wrthi gan uwch aelodau'r Llywodraeth yn y Weriniaeth, ac yna mae eisiau i mi gyfarwyddo'r un Llywodraeth honno ar agweddau y dylen nhw fod yn eu cymryd at y 'backstop'. Y pethau a adroddwyd gan y Gweinidog yw'r pethau yr ydym ni'n gwybod sy'n cael eu dweud yn feunyddiol am yr agwedd y mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi ei mabwysiadu at yr holl drafodaethau Brexit ac at ei methiant i gydnabod arwyddocâd y ffin ar ynys Iwerddon. Roeddwn i'n ddigon ffodus, Llywydd, i allu trafod y materion hyn gyda'r Taoiseach yn y Cyngor Prydeinig-Gwyddelig yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae'r rhain yn faterion gwirioneddol ddifrifol sy'n effeithio ar heddwch cymunedau ar ynys Iwerddon, ac nid yw eu diystyru a dweud wrth Lywodraeth arall sut y dylen nhw ymdrin â'r mater hwn wir yn cyd-fynd â difrifoldeb y materion hynny o gwbl.

So, First Minister, you claim to want to avoid 'no deal', but the only measure that has passed the House of Commons has been one that the backstop should be replaced with alternative arrangements. And whatever your own views, surely you recognise that it is that backstop that is a massive barrier to reaching and passing an agreement that would allow us to leave the EU with a deal rather than without a deal. And there is nowhere more than Ireland, as well as parts of the United Kingdom—at least in the near term—that will have significant challenges if there is no deal. If we want to avoid that, surely instead of expressing incredulity about how our own country voted, we should be supporting the case for us to agree sensible arrangements, instead of a backstop that locks us into the customs union and single market unless they give us permission to leave that we cannot agree.

So, I see the Foreign Office have now extended its policy of making you travel by bus in Brussels to the Scottish Government, following the First Minister there promoting independence on a trip to the United States with Foreign Office facilities. First Minister, you talked just now of the £13 billion fiscal gap we would face if we were independent in Wales, yet you pal up with the SNP as if you lead a Government that wants to break up the United Kingdom in a country that voted 'remain'. [Interruption.] But you don’t, and we didn’t. First Minister, do you recognise that hundreds of thousands of people, who used to vote Labour, voted 'leave'? First Minister, haven’t you now betrayed them as a party of 'remain'?

Felly, Prif Weinidog, rydych chi'n honni eich bod chi eisiau osgoi 'dim cytundeb', ond yr unig fesur sydd wedi pasio yn Nhŷ'r Cyffredin yw'r un y dylai'r 'backstop' gael ei ddisodli gan drefniadau eraill. A beth bynnag yw eich safbwyntiau eich hun, siawns eich bod yn cydnabod mai'r 'backstop' hwnnw sydd yn rhwystr enfawr i ddod i gytundeb a fyddai'n caniatáu i ni adael yr UE gyda chytundeb yn hytrach na heb gytundeb, a'i basio. Ac nid oes unman mwy nag Iwerddon, yn ogystal â rhannau o'r Deyrnas Unedig—yn y tymor agos o leiaf—a fydd yn wynebu heriau sylweddol os nad oes cytundeb. Os ydym ni eisiau osgoi hynny, siawns y dylem ni, yn hytrach na mynegi anghrediniaeth ynghylch y modd y pleidleisiodd ein gwlad ein hunain, fod yn cefnogi'r achos i ni gytuno ar drefniadau synhwyrol, yn hytrach na 'backstop' sy'n ein cloi ni yn yr undeb tollau a'r farchnad sengl oni bai eu bod nhw'n rhoi caniatâd i ni adael na chawn ni gytuno arno.

Felly, gwelaf fod y Swyddfa Dramor bellach wedi ehangu ei pholisi o wneud i chi deithio ar fws ym Mrwsel i Lywodraeth yr Alban, ar ôl i'r Prif Weinidog yno hyrwyddo annibyniaeth ar daith i'r Unol Daleithiau gyda chyfleusterau'r Swyddfa Dramor. Prif Weinidog, fe wnaethoch chi sôn gynnau am y bwlch cyllidol o £13 biliwn y byddem ni'n ei wynebu pe byddem ni'n annibynnol yng Nghymru, ac eto rydych chi'n closio at yr SNP fel pe byddech chi'n arwain Llywodraeth sydd eisiau chwalu'r Deyrnas Unedig mewn gwlad a bleidleisiodd i aros. [Torri ar draws.] Ond dydych chi ddim, a wnaethom ni ddim. Prif Weinidog, a ydych chi'n cydnabod bod cannoedd o filoedd o bobl, a oedd yn arfer pleidleisio dros Lafur, wedi pleidleisio dros 'adael'? Prif Weinidog, onid ydych chi wedi eu bradychu nhw erbyn hyn a chithau'n blaid sydd o blaid aros?

Llywydd, let me try and find three points from what the Member has said to which I could try and make a reply. First of all, it is absolutely incumbent upon those people who talk about alternative arrangements on the border on the island of Ireland to come and explain to us how those alternative arrangements are to operate. It's no use just saying there are other ways in which this could be done. Those people who believe that have to come forward with a credible plan as to how that can be achieved. Nothing that I have read or seen or heard from the Member or anybody else who makes that assertion leads me to believe that there is a genuinely detailed, workable set of proposals that would allow the backstop simply to be evaporated at this point in the negotiations. If there are, people should bring those ideas forward. Mrs May asked, I know, time and again, to those Members on her own side who proposed that these things could be done to give her the information that would allow her to make that proposal credibly. They couldn't, she couldn't, and the Member here certainly can't.

Let me deal with the point that he made about the Foreign Office, because it leads to his point about the union. The Foreign Office's actions in relation to the Welsh and Scottish Governments have been crass in the extreme. I never go abroad to criticise the UK Government; I go to make the points that are made in this Chamber and that I make on behalf of Wales. If the Foreign Office believed for a moment that I would not say the things that I think are important to say on behalf of Wales by saying that I couldn't have a lift in one of their cars—a lift, by the way, that we pay for; it's not a free lift, we pay for it every time we use it. If they thought that that would lead me to change my mind, then that tells you just how detached that department has become from the realities of the way the United Kingdom operates.

That matters to me, Llywydd, because I believe in the United Kingdom. I want the United Kingdom to be a success, and I want Wales to be a successful part of a successful United Kingdom. But when the Foreign Office acts in that high-handed sort of way, then it simply hands a public relations coup over to those people who have a different idea of the future. And in the end, it is the unionists who pose the greatest threat to the union, because they will not take these matters seriously and they act in those foolish sorts of provocative ways. The Welsh Labour Government will go on making the case for the way that the United Kingdom can operate successfully the other side of Brexit, were that to happen, and it would be fantastic, wouldn't it, if those people who speak up as though they owned the union were prepared to take part in that sort of conversation?

Llywydd, gadewch i mi geisio canfod tri phwynt o'r hyn y mae'r Aelod wedi ei ddweud y gallwn i geisio eu hateb. Yn gyntaf oll, mae'n ddyletswydd ar y bobl hynny sy'n siarad am drefniadau amgen ar y ffin ar ynys Iwerddon ddod i egluro i ni sut y bydd y trefniadau amgen hynny'n gweithredu. Nid oes diben mewn dim ond dweud bod ffyrdd eraill y gellid gwneud hyn. Mae'n rhaid i'r bobl hynny sy'n credu hynny gyflwyno cynllun credadwy ynghylch sut y gellir cyflawni hynny. Nid oes dim yr wyf i wedi ei ddarllen na'i weld na'i glywed gan yr Aelod na neb arall sy'n gwneud yr haeriad hwnnw yn fy arwain i gredu bod cyfres o gynigion gwirioneddol fanwl ac ymarferol a fyddai'n caniatáu i'r 'backstop' gael ei ddileu ar y pwynt hwn yn y trafodaethau. Os oes rhai, dylai pobl gyflwyno'r syniadau hynny. Gofynnodd Mrs May, mi wn, dro ar ôl tro, i'r Aelodau hynny ar ei hochr ei hun a gynigiodd y gellid gwneud y pethau hyn roi'r wybodaeth iddi a fyddai'n caniatáu iddi wneud y cynnig hwnnw'n gredadwy. Nid oeddwn nhw'n gallu gwneud hynny, nid oedd hi'n gallu gwneud hynny ac yn sicr ni all yr Aelod yn y fan yma wneud hynny.

Gadewch i mi ymdrin â'r pwynt a wnaeth am y Swyddfa Dramor, oherwydd mae'n arwain at ei bwynt ynglŷn â'r undeb. Mae gweithredoedd y Swyddfa Dramor o ran Llywodraethau Cymru a'r Alban wedi bod yn rhai anneallus dros ben. Nid wyf i byth yn mynd dramor i feirniadu Llywodraeth y DU; rwy'n mynd i wneud y pwyntiau sy'n cael eu gwneud yn y Siambr hon ac rwyf i'n eu gwneud ar ran Cymru. Pe byddai'r Swyddfa Dramor yn credu am eiliad na fyddwn i'n dweud y pethau y credaf ei bod hi'n bwysig eu dweud ar ran Cymru trwy ddweud na allwn i gael lifft yn un o'u ceir—lifft, gyda llaw, yr ydym ni'n talu amdano; nid yw'n lifft am ddim, rydym ni'n talu amdano bob tro yr ydym ni'n ei ddefnyddio. Pe bydden nhw'n meddwl y byddai hynny'n peri i mi newid fy meddwl, yna mae hynny'n dweud wrthych chi pa mor ychydig y mae'r adran honno yn ei ddeall ar realiti'r ffordd y mae'r Deyrnas Unedig yn gweithredu.

Mae hynny'n bwysig i mi, Llywydd, oherwydd fy mod i'n credu yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Rwyf i eisiau i'r Deyrnas Unedig fod yn llwyddiant, ac rwyf i eisiau i Gymru fod yn rhan lwyddiannus o Deyrnas Unedig lwyddiannus. Ond pan fydd y Swyddfa Dramor yn gweithredu yn y ffordd lawdrwm honno, yna'r cwbl y mae'n ei wneud yw rhoi hwb cysylltiadau cyhoeddus i'r bobl hynny sydd â gwahanol syniad ynghylch y dyfodol. Ac yn y pen draw, yr unoliaethwyr sy'n peri'r bygythiad mwyaf i'r undeb, oherwydd nid ydyn nhw'n fodlon cymryd y materion hyn o ddifrif ac maen nhw'n ymddwyn yn y mathau ffôl hynny o ffyrdd herfeiddiol. Bydd Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru yn parhau i ddadlau'r achos dros y modd y gall y Deyrnas Unedig weithredu'n llwyddiannus yr ochr arall i Brexit, pe byddai hynny'n digwydd, a byddai'n wych, oni fyddai, pe byddai'r bobl hynny sy'n codi eu lleisiau fel pe bydden nhw'n berchen ar yr undeb yn barod i gymryd rhan mewn sgwrs o'r math hwnnw?

Y Lluoedd Arfog
The Armed Forces

3. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am gefnogaeth Llywodraeth Cymru i'r lluoedd arfog? OAQ54157

3. Will the First Minister provide an update on Welsh Government support for the armed forces? OAQ54157

The Welsh Government's armed forces covenant annual report, published in May, sets out the actions we are taking to support veterans in Wales, in employment, education, health and in housing. 

Mae adroddiad blynyddol cyfamod y lluoedd arfog Llywodraeth Cymru, a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Mai, yn nodi'r camau yr ydym ni'n eu cymryd i gefnogi cyn-filwyr yng Nghymru, o ran cyflogaeth, addysg, iechyd a thai.

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. I welcome the publication of that report and the action that's been taken by the Welsh Government to date. As you will know, it was Armed Forces Day on Saturday and there were communities across the UK and, indeed, across Wales that were celebrating and commemorating the contribution of the armed forces to the nation. And on Monday last week, I held an event to commemorate and mark reservists in the armed forces community, many of whom work in the Welsh Government and other public sector organisations. I was very pleased that the Welsh Government's Minister for the armed forces attended that event.

Will you join me in commemorating and thanking the men and women of the armed forces here in Wales for the contribution that they make, and can you tell us whether any further progress has been made by your Government on promoting the opportunities that being part of the reserved forces can bring to their employers, and in addition give us an update on your consideration of a guaranteed interview scheme for veterans in the future?

Diolch am yr ateb yna, Prif Weinidog. Rwy'n croesawu cyhoeddiad yr adroddiad hwnnw a'r camau a gymerwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru hyd yn hyn. Fel y gwyddoch, roedd hi'n ddiwrnod y Lluoedd Arfog ddydd Sadwrn ac roedd cymunedau ledled y DU ac, yn wir, ledled Cymru a oedd yn dathlu ac yn coffáu cyfraniad y lluoedd arfog i'r genedl. A dydd Llun yr wythnos diwethaf, cynhaliais ddigwyddiad i goffáu a nodi milwyr wrth gefn yng nghymuned y lluoedd arfog, y mae llawer ohonyn nhw yn gweithio yn Llywodraeth Cymru a sefydliadau eraill yn y sector cyhoeddus. Roeddwn i'n falch iawn bod Gweinidog y lluoedd arfog Llywodraeth Cymru yn bresennol yn y digwyddiad hwnnw.

A wnewch chi ymuno â mi i goffáu a diolch i wŷr a gwragedd y lluoedd arfog yma yng Nghymru am y cyfraniad y maen nhw'n ei wneud, ac a allwch chi ddweud wrthym ni a oes unrhyw gynnydd pellach wedi ei wneud gan eich Llywodraeth o ran hyrwyddo'r cyfleoedd y gall bod yn rhan o'r lluoedd arfog wrth gefn eu cynnig i'w cyflogwyr, a hefyd a allwch chi roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i ni am eich ystyriaeth o gynllun sicrhau cyfweliad i gyn-filwyr yn y dyfodol?

I thank the Member for those important points. I thank him for his recognition of the actions that the Welsh Government has taken and for the continued interest that he takes always in these matters. Of course, Llywydd, I recognise the contribution that reservists make to our armed forces. Many of us will know people who take part in the reserve forces. I have, in my own office, somebody who has time given to them to go and help in the way that they do. So, very good to see the event that was held here—glad that the Welsh Government was represented at it, and very pleased to add my thanks to those people who give their time and their commitment to being reservists for the armed forces. 

As far as the guaranteed interview scheme is concerned, and I know the Member raised this with me some weeks ago, he'll be pleased, I know, to know that a number of local authorities in Wales—Newport and Torfaen, for example—have already implemented a guaranteed interview scheme. I expect to have legal and other advice on this matter before the end of this Assembly term, as a result of the conversation we had here some weeks ago. As soon as I've had a chance to consider that advice, and if there are any further moves that we can make in that direction, I'll make sure that I write to the Member to give him an update on those matters. 

Diolchaf i'r Aelod am y pwyntiau pwysig yna. Diolchaf iddo am ei gydnabyddiaeth o'r camau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi eu cymryd ac am y diddordeb parhaus y mae bob amser yn ei gymryd yn y materion hyn. Wrth gwrs, Llywydd, rwy'n cydnabod y cyfraniad y mae milwyr wrth gefn yn ei wneud i'n lluoedd arfog. Bydd llawer ohonom ni'n adnabod pobl sy'n cymryd rhan yn y lluoedd wrth gefn. Mae gen i, yn fy swyddfa fy hun, rywun y rhoddir amser iddo i fynd i helpu yn y ffordd y maen nhw'n ei wneud. Felly, mae'n dda iawn gweld y digwyddiad a gynhaliwyd yn y fan yma—rwy'n falch bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ei chynrychioli ynddo, ac yn falch iawn o ychwanegu fy niolch i'r bobl hynny sy'n rhoi o'u hamser a'u hymrwymiad i fod yn filwyr wrth gefn i'r lluoedd arfog.

O ran y cynllun sicrhau cyfweliad, a gwn fod yr Aelod wedi codi hyn gyda mi rai wythnosau yn ôl, bydd yn falch, rwy'n gwybod, o glywed bod nifer o awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru—Casnewydd a Thorfaen, er enghraifft—eisoes wedi cyflwyno cynllun sicrhau cyfweliad. Rwy'n disgwyl cael cyngor cyfreithiol a chyngor arall ar y mater hwn cyn diwedd tymor y Cynulliad hwn, o ganlyniad i'r sgwrs a gawsom yn y fan yma rai wythnosau yn ôl. Cyn gynted ag y byddaf wedi cael cyfle i ystyried y cyngor hwnnw, ac os oes unrhyw gamau pellach y gallwn ni eu cymryd i'r cyfeiriad hwnnw, byddaf yn gwneud yn siŵr fy mod i'n ysgrifennu at yr Aelod i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf iddo am y materion hynny.


First Minister, while I commend your Government's commitment to the armed forces covenant, Wales still continues to let down its veterans. One of my constituents has been refused access to a rehabilitation centre in England specifically designed to deal with his losing a limb, along with his post-traumatic stress disorder, during active service. So, First Minister, will you ensure that our veterans receive the best available treatment—regardless of where the service is provided in the UK—that best meets their needs? Diolch.

Prif Weinidog, er fy mod i'n cymeradwyo ymrwymiad eich Llywodraeth i gyfamod y lluoedd arfog, mae Cymru'n dal i siomi ei chyn-filwyr. Gwrthodwyd mynediad i un o'm hetholwyr i ganolfan adsefydlu yn Lloegr sydd wedi ei chynllunio'n benodol i ymdrin â cholli braich neu goes, ynghyd â'i anhwylder straen wedi trawma, yn ystod gwasanaeth gweithredol. Felly, Prif Weinidog, a wnewch chi sicrhau bod ein cyn-filwyr yn cael y driniaeth orau sydd ar gael—ni waeth ym mha le y darperir y gwasanaeth yn y DU—sy'n diwallu eu hanghenion orau? Diolch.

Well, Llywydd, that is exactly what we would expect to happen, but clinicians make these decisions, not politicians, and it is right that clinicians provide that advice to individuals as to where, in exactly the way that Caroline Jones has said, individuals are able to receive the best treatment for their needs. I don't, of course, know the details of the individual case, but I am absolutely certain that the decisions, which ought to be in line with the policy that was outlined, are made by people who have the necessary clinical expertise to provide the right advice to patients, wherever those patients come from and whatever their backgrounds. 

Wel, Llywydd, dyna'n union y byddem ni'n disgwyl iddo ddigwydd, ond clinigwyr sy'n gwneud y penderfyniadau hyn, nid gwleidyddion, ac mae'n iawn bod clinigwyr yn rhoi'r cyngor hwnnw i unigolion o ran ble, yn union fel y dywedodd Caroline Jones, y gall unigolion gael y driniaeth orau ar gyfer eu hanghenion. Nid wyf i, wrth gwrs, yn ymwybodol o fanylion yr achos unigol, ond rwy'n gwbl sicr bod y penderfyniadau, a ddylai fod yn unol â'r polisi a amlinellwyd, yn cael eu gwneud gan bobl sydd â'r arbenigedd clinigol angenrheidiol i ddarparu'r cyngor cywir i gleifion, o ble bynnag y daw'r cleifion hynny a beth bynnag fo'u cefndir.

Ansawdd Aer
Air Quality

4. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i sicrhau bod ansawdd aer yn Islwyn yn parhau i wella? OAQ54191

4. What action is the Welsh Government taking to ensure that air quality in Islwyn continues to improve? OAQ54191

I thank the Member for that. Improving air quality to support health, biodiversity and environmental improvements in Islwyn and across Wales is a priority for the Welsh Government. This autumn, we will consult on a draft clean air plan for Wales, and that plan will set out cross-Government and sectoral actions required to reduce air pollution.

Diolchaf i'r Aelod am hynna. Mae gwella ansawdd aer i gynorthwyo gwelliannau iechyd, bioamrywiaeth ac amgylcheddol yn Islwyn a ledled Cymru yn flaenoriaeth i Lywodraeth Cymru. Yn ystod hydref eleni, byddwn yn ymgynghori ar gynllun aer glân drafft i Gymru, a bydd y cynllun hwnnw'n nodi'r camau y mae angen eu cymryd ar draws y Llywodraeth a'r sectorau i leihau llygredd aer.

Thank you. As the Assembly Member for Islwyn, can I welcome the determined, hard work of both the Welsh Labour Government and the Welsh Labour-run county borough in working together to combat the negative effects of nitrogen dioxide pollution on the A472 at Hafodyrynys? Only recently, a resident of the affected street, Mr Martin Brown, visited one of my advice surgeries with the local Labour councillor for Crumlin, Carl Thomas, to hear the latest news. So, First Minister, can you outline for the people of Islwyn further how the Welsh Labour Government's clean air budget and its strong commitment to ensuring that Islwyn residents enjoy healthy levels of air quality has enabled the Government to work with the local council and, in doing so, ensure that residents living in the worst-affected houses on Woodside Terrace will be duly compensated for their properties to ensure that they do not suffer any financial hardship as a result of the actions that need to be taken? And, finally, First Minister, what does this action say about how close partnership working between Welsh and local government can transform people's lives as we continue the fight against the ever-negative impacts of pollution?

Diolch. Fel yr Aelod Cynulliad dros Islwyn, a gaf i groesawu'r gwaith caled a phenderfynol gan Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru a'r fwrdeistref sirol a arweinir gan Lafur Cymru wrth gydweithio i fynd i'r afael ag effeithiau negyddol llygredd nitrogen deuocsid ar y A472 yn Hafodyrynys? Yn ddiweddar iawn, ymwelodd Mr Martin Brown, sy'n byw ar y stryd dan sylw, ag un o'm cymorthfeydd gyda'r cynghorydd Llafur lleol dros Grymlyn, Carl Thomas, i glywed y newyddion diweddaraf. Felly, Prif Weinidog, a allwch chi amlinellu i bobl Islwyn ymhellach sut y mae cyllideb aer glân Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru a'i hymrwymiad cryf i sicrhau bod trigolion Islwyn yn mwynhau lefelau iach o ansawdd aer wedi galluogi'r Llywodraeth i weithio gyda'r cyngor lleol a, thrwy wneud hynny, sicrhau y caiff trigolion sy'n byw yn y tai yr effeithiwyd arnynt waethaf ar Woodside Terrace eu digolledu'n briodol am eu heiddo i sicrhau na fyddan nhw'n dioddef unrhyw galedi ariannol o ganlyniad i'r camau y mae angen eu cymryd? Ac, yn olaf, Prif Weinidog, beth mae'r camau hyn yn ei ddweud am y modd y gall gwaith partneriaeth agos rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru a llywodraeth leol weddnewid bywydau pobl wrth i ni barhau'r frwydr yn erbyn effeithiau negyddol parhaus llygredd?

Llywydd, I want to thank Rhianon Passmore. She, of course, is speaking on behalf of her residents at Hafodyrynys and at Woodside Terrace. This is well-known as an area where air-quality improvement is urgently needed. The Member will be pleased, I know, to hear that Caerphilly County Borough Council submitted, in line with the timescale set out by my colleague, Lesley Griffiths, their plan for dealing with the negative effects of nitrogen dioxide pollution at that location. The plan of the county borough council is now with the Welsh Government. We will follow the path that we have set out with the county council; that is to say that their plan will be submitted to an independent scrutiny panel. That panel will report to the Minister before the end of this month and, in line with the letter that the Minister sent to Caerphilly County Borough Council on 9 April, we repeat our commitment that, if the measures proposed by the county council stand up to that scrutiny, then we will make adequate funding available to the county borough council to enable them to implement their plan. And that funding will come from the £20 million clean air fund that this Government has established.

Llywydd, hoffwn i ddiolch i Rhianon Passmore. Mae hi, wrth gwrs, yn siarad ar ran ei thrigolion yn Hafodyrynys ac yn Woodside Terrace. Mae hon yn adnabyddus fel ardal lle mae angen gwella ansawdd yr aer ar frys. Gwn y bydd yr Aelod yn falch o glywed bod Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili wedi cyflwyno, yn unol â'r amserlen a bennwyd gan fy nghyd-Aelod, Lesley Griffiths, eu cynllun ar gyfer ymdrin ag effeithiau negyddol llygredd nitrogen deuocsid yn y lleoliad hwnnw. Mae cynllun y cyngor bwrdeistref sirol gyda Llywodraeth Cymru erbyn hyn. Byddwn yn dilyn y llwybr yr ydym ni wedi ei bennu gyda'r cyngor sir; sy'n golygu y bydd eu cynllun yn cael ei gyflwyno i banel craffu annibynnol. Bydd y panel hwnnw yn adrodd i'r Gweinidog cyn diwedd y mis hwn ac, yn unol â'r llythyr a anfonodd y Gweinidog at Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Caerffili ar 9 Ebrill, rydym yn ailadrodd ein hymrwymiad, sef os bydd y mesurau a gynigir gan y cyngor sir yn gwrthsefyll y gwaith craffu hwnnw, yna byddwn yn sicrhau bod cyllid digonol ar gael i'r cyngor bwrdeistref sirol i'w galluogi i weithredu eu cynllun. A bydd y cyllid hwnnw yn dod o'r gronfa aer glân o £20 miliwn y mae'r Llywodraeth hon wedi ei sefydlu.


First Minister, just further to Rhianon Passmore's question, I would fully support the decision by Caerphilly council to buy 23 of the homes worst affected by the air pollution in Hafodyrynys. However, only a few short weeks ago, the council rejected plans to demolish the houses and, instead, pinned their hopes for tackling air pollution on cars getting cleaner and greener in the coming years. Does the First Minister share my concern at the delay in making a decision to demolish these properties caused by Caerphilly council abdicating its responsibilities to people living in this community? Thank you. 

Prif Weinidog, i ymhelaethu ar gwestiwn Rhianon Passmore, byddwn yn llwyr gefnogi'r penderfyniad gan gyngor Caerffili i brynu 23 o'r cartrefi yr effeithiwyd arnynt waethaf gan y llygredd aer yn Hafodyrynys. Fodd bynnag, dim ond ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, gwrthododd y cyngor gynlluniau i ddymchwel y tai ac, yn hytrach, hoelio eu gobeithion ar gyfer mynd i'r afael â llygredd aer ar geir yn troi'n lanach ac yn wyrddach yn y blynyddoedd i ddod. A yw'r Prif Weinidog yn rhannu fy mhryder ynghylch yr oedi o ran gwneud penderfyniad i ddymchwel y tai hyn a achoswyd gan gyngor Caerffili yn osgoi ei gyfrifoldebau i bobl sy'n byw yn y gymuned hon? Diolch.

Llywydd, I haven't seen the detail of the county council's proposals, but there's been no delay in the sense that they were submitted according to the timetable that the Minister had set out, and we have immediately moved to have those plans independently scrutinised. So, we will wait to see what the plans say. We will wait to see what the scrutiny arrangements have to advise us on the quality of those plans, but I wanted to give the local Member—and I give the same assurance to Mohammad Asghar—that, provided those plans do stand up to scrutiny, then funding will not be the barrier to their implementation. 

Llywydd, nid wyf i wedi gweld manylion cynigion y cyngor sir, ond ni fu unrhyw oedi yn yr ystyr eu bod nhw wedi cael eu cyflwyno yn unol â'r amserlen yr oedd y Gweinidog wedi ei phennu, ac rydym ni wedi symud ar unwaith i wneud y cynlluniau hynny yn destun craffu annibynnol. Felly, byddwn yn aros i weld beth mae'r cynlluniau'n ei ddweud. Byddwn yn aros i weld beth fydd gan y trefniadau craffu i'n cynghori ni ar ansawdd y cynlluniau hynny, ond roeddwn i eisiau rhoi sicrwydd i'r Aelod lleol—a rhoddaf yr un sicrwydd i Mohammad Asghar—nad y cyllid fydd y rhwystr i weithredu'r cynlluniau hynny cyn belled â'u bod yn gwrthsefyll y gwaith craffu.

Caniatâd Cynllunio a Newid Defnydd Adeiladau
Planning Consent and Change of Building Use

5. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am ganiatâd cynllunio a newid defnydd adeiladau? OAQ54189

5. Will the First Minister make a statement regarding planning consent and change of building use? OAQ54189

I thank the Member for that. Planning consent is generally required for the material change of building use except where it is already allowed by the use classes Order and permitted development Order. Any application for planning permission must be determined in accordance with the local development plan, unless material considerations indicate otherwise.

Diolchaf i'r Aelod am hynna. Mae angen caniatâd cynllunio ar gyfer newid sylweddol i ddefnydd adeilad fel arfer, ac eithrio lle y mae eisoes wedi ei ganiatáu gan y Gorchymyn dosbarthiadau defnydd a'r Gorchymyn datblygu a ganiateir. Mae'n rhaid gwneud penderfyniad ynghylch unrhyw gais am ganiatâd cynllunio yn unol â'r cynllun datblygu lleol, oni bai bod ystyriaethau perthnasol yn nodi fel arall.

Thank you. The area I'm interested in is pub closures. We were talking earlier about the issue of bank closures in Wales; another problem afflicting the high street is pub closures. We have had a quarter of pubs closing in Wales in the last 20 years. Now, they have taken some legislative measures relating to this in England with the Localism Act 2011. I have asked questions here before about what plans the Welsh Government has in this area, but I don't appear—or we as a Chamber don't appear—to have heard anything since I last raised the issue in February last year. So, I would be grateful for an update on your thinking.  

Diolch. Cau tafarndai yw'r pwnc y mae gen i ddiddordeb ynddo. Roeddem ni'n sôn yn gynharach am gau banciau yng Nghymru; problem arall sy'n effeithio ar y stryd fawr yw cau tafarndai. Rydym ni wedi gweld chwarter y tafarndai yng Nghymru yn cau yn yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf. Nawr, maen nhw wedi cymryd rhai camau deddfwriaethol yn gysylltiedig â hyn yn Lloegr gyda Deddf Lleoliaeth 2011. Rwyf i wedi gofyn cwestiynau yn y fan yma o'r blaen ynglŷn â pha gynlluniau sydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn y maes hwn, ond nid yw'n ymddangos fy mod i—neu nid yw'n ymddangos ein bod ni fel Siambr—wedi clywed dim ers i mi godi'r mater ddiwethaf ym mis Chwefror y llynedd. Felly, byddwn yn ddiolchgar o gael yr wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am eich syniadau.

I thank the Member. I hope I've got some relatively good news for him in relation to his question. As he will know, the Welsh Government commissioned a report from the University of the West of England looking to see whether current use class Orders remain fit for purpose. The report concluded that while in general the Orders continue to discharge the functions for which they have been put in place, there are a number of improvements that could be made to them—in particular, in amending the consolidated use class Order and the permitted development Order. One of the changes that we intend to bring forward next year will be to provide greater protection for pubs.

Now, the proposals will seek to ensure that no public house can change its use or be demolished without first obtaining planning permission. And that is a change, because it will mean that there will be a greater level of scrutiny where development proposals would otherwise result in the permanent loss of a community asset, and many of our pubs are very important community assets in towns and villages in Wales.

There are a number of other proposals that derive from the work carried out by the University of the West of England. We will bring them together as part of a wider consolidation of planning legislation, and intend to come to the floor of the Chamber next year in order to make those changes to the legislation.   

Diolchaf i'r Aelod. Rwy'n gobeithio bod gen i newyddion cymharol dda iddo o ran ei gwestiwn. Fel y bydd yn gwybod, comisiynodd Llywodraeth Cymru adroddiad gan Brifysgol Gorllewin Lloegr yn edrych i weld a yw Gorchmynion dosbarth defnydd cyfredol yn parhau i fod yn addas i'w diben. Er bod y Gorchmynion, yn gyffredinol, yn parhau i gyflawni'r swyddogaethau y'u sefydlwyd ar eu cyfer, daeth yr adroddiad i'r casgliad bod nifer o welliannau y gellid eu gwneud iddyn nhw—yn arbennig, wrth ddiwygio'r Gorchymyn dosbarth defnydd cyfunol a'r Gorchymyn datblygu a ganiateir. Un o'r newidiadau yr ydym ni'n bwriadu ei gyflwyno y flwyddyn nesaf fydd darparu mwy o fesurau diogelu i dafarndai.

Nawr, bydd y cynigion yn ceisio sicrhau na chaiff unrhyw dafarn newid ei defnydd na chael ei dymchwel heb gael caniatâd cynllunio yn gyntaf. Ac mae hynny'n mynd i newid, oherwydd bydd yn golygu y bydd lefel uwch o graffu pan fyddai cynigion datblygu fel arall yn arwain at golli ased cymunedol yn barhaol, ac mae llawer o'n tafarndai yn asedau cymunedol pwysig iawn mewn trefi a phentrefi yng Nghymru.

Ceir nifer o gynigion eraill sy'n deillio o'r gwaith a wnaed gan Brifysgol Gorllewin Lloegr. Byddwn yn eu dwyn ynghyd yn rhan o gydgyfnerthu ehangach o ddeddfwriaeth gynllunio, ac rydym ni'n bwriadu dod i lawr y Siambr y flwyddyn nesaf i wneud y newidiadau hynny i'r ddeddfwriaeth.

First Minister, we need to take great care with our most precious buildings. You may have heard that plans are now being considered—I don't expect you to comment on these, but plans are being considered for the development of the Howells store. And they're very interesting, in fairness. They deserve good examination. And, if we turn to Newman's great book on the buildings of Glamorgan, he says of the Howells addition by Percy Thomas in 1928, I quote:

'This is a brilliant exposition of American Beaux-Arts classicism.'

And other writers have said it's a slice of Chicago in Cardiff. But a later addition swallowed up the Bethany Baptist chapel, and I note that this may now be released again. But the lesson here is that we need to adapt buildings so that they can be used in each generation, but to do it with great care, because what was done in the 1960s to Bethany chapel was not an example of best practice.

Prif Weinidog, mae angen i ni fod yn ofalus iawn gyda'n hadeiladau mwyaf gwerthfawr. Efallai eich bod chi wedi clywed bod cynlluniau'n cael eu hystyried erbyn hyn—nid wyf i'n disgwyl i chi wneud sylwadau ar y rhain, ond mae cynlluniau'n cael eu hystyried ar gyfer datblygu siop Howells. Ac maen nhw'n ddiddorol iawn, a bod yn deg. Maen nhw'n haeddu cael eu harchwilio'n drylwyr. Ac, os trown ni at lyfr gwych Newman ar adeiladau Morgannwg, dywed am ychwanegiad Howells gan Percy Thomas yn 1928, a dyfynnaf:

Mae hwn yn ddehongliad gwych o glasuriaeth Beaux-Arts Americanaidd.

Ac mae awduron eraill wedi dweud ei bod yn sleisen o Chicago yng Nghaerdydd. Ond llyncodd ychwanegiad diweddarach gapel Bedyddwyr Bethany, a sylwaf y gallai hwn gael ei ryddhau eto nawr. Ond y wers yn y fan yma yw bod angen i ni addasu adeiladau fel y gellir eu defnyddio ym mhob cenhedlaeth, ond ei wneud gyda gofal mawr, oherwydd nid oedd yr hyn a wnaed yn y 1960au i gapel Bethany yn enghraifft o arfer gorau.


Well, I thank the Member for that and I agree entirely with what he said. And this has been a bit of a theme on the floor of the Assembly over the last few weeks. I had some work set in hand for me following Nick Ramsay's question a couple of weeks ago about Troy House. Now, from that work, I think we already know that, in any planning proposal, there is a statutory requirement to have special regard to the desirability of preserving buildings where those buildings have a particular status of the sort that David Melding has made reference to this afternoon. So, I agree with what the Member says. We are looking to see whether the current planning arrangements support that outcome in the way that we would want it to. The statutory requirement is an important defence that we already have in the way our planning law operates, but I have asked officials to give me advice as to whether there are any other ways in which that could be strengthened to make sure that, when proposals come forward, they pay absolutely proper regard to the historic nature and significance of buildings, but that those buildings need a future as well as a past and that we have to find ways of making sure that there are viable ways in which those buildings can go on having a living purpose.

Wel, diolchaf i'r Aelod am hynna ac rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â'r hyn a ddywedodd. Ac mae hon wedi bod yn dipyn o thema ar lawr y Cynulliad yn ystod yr ychydig wythnosau diwethaf. Cefais rywfaint o waith i'w wneud yn dilyn cwestiwn Nick Ramsay wythnos neu ddwy yn ôl am Troy House. Nawr, o'r gwaith hwnnw, rwy'n credu ein bod ni eisoes yn gwybod bod gofyniad statudol, mewn unrhyw gynnig cynllunio, i roi ystyriaeth arbennig i ddymunoldeb cadw adeiladau lle mae gan yr adeiladau hynny statws arbennig o'r math y mae David Melding wedi cyfeirio ato y prynhawn yma. Felly, rwy'n cytuno â'r hyn y mae'r Aelod yn ei ddweud. Rydym ni'n edrych i weld a yw'r trefniadau cynllunio presennol yn cefnogi'r canlyniad hwnnw yn y modd y byddem ni'n dymuno iddyn nhw ei wneud. Mae'r gofyniad statudol yn amddiffyniad pwysig sydd gennym ni eisoes yn y ffordd y mae ein cyfraith gynllunio yn gweithredu, ond rwyf i wedi gofyn i swyddogion roi cyngor i mi ynghylch pa a oes unrhyw ffyrdd eraill y gellid cryfhau hynny er mwyn sicrhau, pan gaiff cynigion eu gwneud, eu bod nhw'n rhoi ystyriaeth gwbl briodol i natur ac arwyddocâd hanesyddol adeiladau, ond bod yr adeiladau hynny angen dyfodol yn ogystal â gorffennol a bod yn rhaid i ni ddod o hyd i ffyrdd o wneud yn siŵr bod ffyrdd dichonol i'r adeiladau hynny allu parhau i fod â diben byw.

Pryd, Brif Weinidog, welwn ni Lywodraeth Cymru’n cyflwyno rheolau newydd a fydd yn ei gwneud hi’n ofynnol i gael caniatâd cynllunio er mwyn troi tŷ preswyl yn dŷ haf neu’n dŷ gwyliau?

When, First Minister, will we see the Welsh Government introducing new rules that will make it a requirement to have planning consent to turn a residential home into a holiday home?

Wel, dwi’n gyfarwydd, wrth gwrs, gyda’r ddadl sydd tu ôl i’r cwestiwn ac mae ein swyddogion ni wedi edrych yn fanwl ar y wybodaeth sydd yna yn y maes i weld os yw’r rheolau sydd gyda ni ar hyn o bryd yn deg i bob un neu os oes bwlch wedi codi yn y rheoliadau lle bydd yn rhaid inni fynd yn ôl i wneud rhywbeth arall. Rŷm ni’n dibynnu ar y wybodaeth sydd yn dod i mewn o'r awdurdodau lleol ac rŷm ni wedi cael peth gwybodaeth oddi wrth Wynedd, er enghraifft, am yr effaith maen nhw’n meddwl maen nhw'n ei weld yn y maes lleol. Dŷn ni ddim ar hyn o bryd yn siŵr os yw hynna’n dod at y point lle mai newid y rheoliadau yw’r ffordd orau i ddatrys y broblem, os oes problem i’w ddatrys, ond rŷm ni’n agored i’r ddadl, rŷm ni’n casglu’r wybodaeth ac, os yw’r achos yna, fel Llywodraeth, rŷm ni’n agored i weld os oes rhywbeth arall bydd yn rhaid inni ei wneud i newid y rheoliadau.

Well, I am, naturally, familiar with the argument that lies behind your question. Our officials have looked in detail at the information available in the field to see whether the regulations we have at present are equitable to all or whether a gap has appeared, or a loophole has appeared, in the regulations where we need to return to do something differently. We are dependent on the information that comes in from the local authorities, and we have received some information from Gwynedd, for example, about the impact that they believe they are seeing in their local area. We are not at present certain that that is actually making us come to the conclusion that changing the regulations is the best way of resolving the situation, if there is a problem to resolve, but we are open to all arguments and we are collecting information on this and, if it is proven that there is a case, then we are open to do something else to change the regulations.

Lleihau Tlodi Plant
Reducing Child Poverty

6. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am gynlluniau Llywodraeth Cymru i leihau tlodi plant? OAQ54190

6. Will the First Minister provide an update on the Welsh Government's plans to reduce child poverty? OAQ54190

I thank Lynne Neagle for that. It's unacceptable for a child’s life chances to be determined by their social or economic circumstances. The Minister for Housing and Local Government is leading a review of the Welsh Government funding programmes to ensure that they have maximum impact on the lives of children living in poverty.

Diolchaf i Lynne Neagle am hynna. Mae'n annerbyniol i gyfleoedd bywyd plentyn gael eu penderfynu ar sail ei amgylchiadau cymdeithasol neu economaidd. Mae'r Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol yn arwain adolygiad o raglenni ariannu Llywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau eu bod nhw'n cael yr effaith fwyaf posibl ar fywydau plant sy'n byw mewn tlodi.

Thank you, First Minister. Last month, following an individual Member's debate, led by my colleague John Griffiths, AMs voted in favour of Welsh Government bringing forward a new strategy to tackle poverty together with a detailed budget and action plan for implementation. Given the clear cross-party support there is for more action in this area, when will the strategy be forthcoming? And what assurances can you give that it will be accompanied by clear targets, transparent budgets and strong ministerial leadership?

Diolch, Prif Weinidog. Fis diwethaf, yn dilyn dadl Aelod unigol, dan arweiniad fy nghyd-Aelod, John Griffiths, pleidleisiodd ACau o blaid Llywodraeth Cymru yn cyflwyno strategaeth newydd i fynd i'r afael â thlodi ynghyd â chyllideb fanwl a chynllun gweithredu i'w rhoi ar waith. O ystyried y gefnogaeth drawsbleidiol amlwg sydd i fwy o weithredu yn y maes hwn, pryd fydd y strategaeth yn cael ei chyflwyno? A pha sicrwydd allwch chi ei roi y bydd yn cael ei hategu gan dargedau eglur, cyllidebau tryloyw ac arweinyddiaeth weinidogol gref?

Well, Llywydd, of course we continue to consider the motion passed here on the floor of the Assembly. I'm in favour of what the Member said in the earlier part of her supplementary question. I'm in favour of action that makes a difference in the lives of children here in Wales. I'm in favour of building on the record that successive Governments have laid down where we institute policies and programmes here in Wales that mean that money is left in the pockets of families who otherwise would have to pay out money for services.

So, the fact that we have £244 million in our council tax relief scheme means that those families who otherwise—and across our border—would be paying out every week for council tax have that money left in their pocket here in Wales, and that means there is money that they have to spend on the welfare of children. When you abolish prescription charges, when you have the most generous childcare offer in Wales, when you fund new free school meals when they're not funded in England, when you have free breakfasts in primary schools, when we have the only national programme of school holiday enrichment—all of that, Llywydd, adds up to nearly £0.5 billion, and if it were not being provided by the programmes that successive Governments here have built up, families would be left paying for those things out of their own pockets. That leaves, in the pockets of families in Wales, anywhere between £1,000 and £2,000 every year. That's the sort of practical action that I think lies in the hands of Welsh public authorities.

I agree very much with what Lynne Neagle said about the need to take further actions so that families have money that they can spend to meet the needs of their children and their wider families. We will look to see what more can be done. We will look at it in the context of the motion that was passed here on the floor of the Assembly. But you will know—Members here will know—that the criticism of the National Assembly often is that we are a strategy factory and that those strategies do not always bite into the lives of families in the way that we would have wanted to see. I'm interested in the things that we can do that make a difference and make a difference in the lives of children who otherwise would be living in poverty, and that's what we will be focused on.

Wel, Llywydd, rydym ni'n dal i ystyried, wrth gwrs, y cynnig a basiwyd yma ar lawr y Cynulliad. Rwyf i o blaid yr hyn a ddywedodd yr Aelod yn rhan gyntaf ei chwestiwn atodol. Rwyf i o blaid camau sy'n gwneud gwahaniaeth ym mywydau plant yma yng Nghymru. Rwyf i o blaid adeiladu ar yr hanes y mae Llywodraethau olynol wedi ei sicrhau lle'r ydym ni'n sefydlu polisïau a rhaglenni yma yng Nghymru sy'n golygu bod arian yn cael ei adael ym mhocedi teuluoedd y byddai'n rhaid iddyn nhw dalu arian am wasanaethau fel arall.

Felly, mae'r ffaith bod gennym ni £244 miliwn yn ein cynllun rhyddhad treth gyngor yn golygu y byddai'r teuluoedd hynny a fyddai fel arall—ac ar draws ein ffin—yn talu bob wythnos am y dreth gyngor yn cael yr arian hwnnw wedi ei adael yn eu poced yma yng Nghymru, ac mae hynny'n golygu bod arian ganddyn nhw i'w wario ar les plant. Pan fyddwch chi'n diddymu ffioedd presgripsiwn, pan fo gennych chi'r cynnig gofal plant mwyaf hael yng Nghymru, pan fyddwch chi'n ariannu prydau ysgol am ddim newydd pan nad ydyn nhw'n cael eu hariannu yn Lloegr, pan fo gennych chi frecwastau am ddim mewn ysgolion cynradd, pan fo gennym ni'r unig raglen genedlaethol o gyfoethogi gwyliau ysgol—mae hynny i gyd, Llywydd, yn dod i fwy na £0.5 biliwn, a phe na byddai'n cael ei ddarparu gan y rhaglenni y mae Llywodraethau olynol yn y fan yma wedi eu datblygu, byddai teuluoedd yn gorfod talu am y pethau hynny o'u pocedi eu hunain. Mae hynny'n gadael, ym mhocedi teuluoedd yng Nghymru, unrhyw beth rhwng £1,000 a £2,000 bob blwyddyn. Dyna'r math o gamau ymarferol yr wyf i'n credu sydd yn nwylo awdurdodau cyhoeddus Cymru.

Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â'r hyn a ddywedodd Lynne Neagle am yr angen i gymryd camau pellach fel bod gan deuluoedd arian y gallan nhw ei wario i ddiwallu anghenion eu plant a'u teuluoedd ehangach. Byddwn yn edrych i weld beth arall y gellir ei wneud. Byddwn yn edrych arno yng nghyd-destun y cynnig a basiwyd yma ar lawr y Cynulliad. Ond byddwch yn gwybod—bydd yr Aelodau yn y fan yma yn gwybod—mai'r feirniadaeth o'r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn aml yw ein bod ni'n ffatri strategaethau ac nad yw'r strategaethau hynny bob amser yn effeithio ar fywydau teuluoedd yn y ffordd y byddem ni wedi dymuno ei gweld. Mae gen i ddiddordeb yn y pethau y gallwn ni eu gwneud sy'n gwneud gwahaniaeth ac sy'n gwneud gwahaniaeth ym mywydau plant a fyddai fel arall yn byw mewn tlodi, a dyna'r hyn y byddwn ni'n canolbwyntio arno.


I fully endorse Lynne Neagle's call and would ask you to revisit that, bearing in mind that the Children’s Commissioner for Wales in March called for a new child poverty delivery plan in Wales. [Interruption.] Is there a sound problem?

Rwy'n llwyr gefnogi galwad Lynne Neagle a gofynnaf i chi ailystyried hynny, o gofio bod Comisiynydd Plant Cymru wedi galw ym mis Mawrth am gynllun cyflawni newydd ar dlodi plant yng Nghymru. [Torri ar draws.] A oes problem sain?

I cannot hear him. 

Nid wyf i'n gallu ei glywed.

If you can—. Your microphone wasn't—. No, don't move it. That's the worst thing to do. Your microphone wasn't on at the start of the question. I apologise for that. If you can repeat your question so the First Minister can hear. 

Os gallwch chi—. Doedd eich meicroffon ddim yn—. Na, peidiwch â'i symud. Dyna'r peth gwaethaf i'w wneud. Nid oedd eich meicroffon ymlaen ar ddechrau'r cwestiwn. Ymddiheuraf am hynny. Os gallwch chi ailadrodd eich cwestiwn fel y gall y Prif Weinidog glywed.

Okay. I voted with Lynne Neagle in the debate she referred to. I fully endorse her call and would ask you to reconsider the specific point that she raised where the Children’s Commissioner for Wales in March called on the Welsh Government for a new child poverty delivery plan.

Even before the financial crash, Wales had the highest child poverty levels in the UK: 29 per cent in 2007, 32 per cent in 2008—even before the crash. In 2012, 'Child Poverty Snapshots' from Save the Children said that Wales has the highest poverty and severe child poverty rates of any nation in the UK. In May, the End Child Poverty Network reported that Wales was the only UK nation to see a rise in child poverty last year.

Well, this is actually National Co-production Week, as the Carnegie Trust reminded some of us yesterday. How, therefore, do you respond to the statement in Children in Wales's 'Child and Family Poverty in Wales: Results from the Child and Family Survey 2018'? It asked respondents, people in our communities, what they thought the Welsh Government should be doing to reduce child and family poverty, and the first comment quoted was to

'Invest in local communities—engage with local people and work with bottom up approaches to regeneration programmes'. 

Despite the rhetoric, despite the billions spent, this hasn't happened, isn't happening, and must happen within the strategy if we're going to finally tackle this outrage.

Iawn. Pleidleisiais gyda Lynne Neagle yn y ddadl y cyfeiriodd hi ati. Rwy'n llwyr gefnogi ei galwad, a gofynnaf i chi ailystyried y pwynt penodol a gododd hi pan alwodd Comisiynydd Plant Cymru ar Lywodraeth Cymru ym mis Mawrth am gynllun cyflawni newydd ar dlodi plant.

Hyd yn oed cyn y cwymp ariannol, roedd gan Gymru'r lefelau tlodi plant uchaf yn y DU: 29 y cant yn 2007, 32 y cant yn 2008—hyd yn oed cyn y cwymp. Yn 2012, dywedodd 'Child Poverty Snapshots' gan Achub y plant mai Cymru sydd â'r cyfraddau tlodi plant a thlodi plant difrifol uchaf o blith holl wledydd y DU. Ym mis Mai, dywedodd y rhwydwaith Dileu Tlodi Plant mai Cymru oedd yr unig wlad yn y DU lle bu cynnydd o ran tlodi plant y llynedd.

Wel, mae hi'n Wythnos Cyd-gynhyrchu Genedlaethol, fel yr atgoffodd Ymddiriedolaeth Carnegie rai ohonom ni ddoe. Sut, felly, ydych chi'n ymateb i'r datganiad yn 'Tlodi Plant a Theuluoedd yng Nghymru: Canlyniadau Arolwg Plant a Theuluoedd 2018' Plant yng Nghymru? Gofynnodd i ymatebwyr, pobl yn ein cymunedau, beth oedden nhw ei gredu y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru fod yn ei wneud i leihau tlodi plant a theuluoedd, a'r sylw cyntaf a ddyfynnwyd oedd

'Buddsoddi mewn cymunedau lleol—ymgysylltu â phobl leol a gweithio drwy strategaethau o’r gwaelod i fyny ar gyfer rhaglenni adfywio'.

Er gwaetha'r rhethreg, er gwaethaf y biliynau a wariwyd, nid yw hyn wedi digwydd, nid yw'n digwydd, ac mae'n rhaid iddo ddigwydd o fewn y strategaeth os ydym ni am fynd i'r afael â'r cywilydd hwn o'r diwedd.

Well, Llywydd, I'm absolutely in favour of child poverty policies being shaped in a dialogue with those people who are on the receiving end of policies. When I talk to families in my constituency who are at the sharp end of child poverty, then the things that they talk to me about are the fact that their benefits have been frozen since the year 2015, that they have to pay the bedroom tax for the privilege of having somewhere where grandchildren can come and stay with them, and where, if you're family with more than three children, you are penalised by the Conservative Government's child cap. So, the story of child poverty during devolution, Llywydd, is that for the first 10 years, child poverty in Wales fell year on year, and in the second decade, we will end the decade with 50,000 more children in poverty than when we began. Of course we need to design our responses alongside those people who are on the receiving end of those policies, but those are the policies that have caused child poverty. They have done so deliberately and knowingly, and it's time that parties in this Chamber who have responsibility for those policies owned up to that.

Wel, Llywydd, rwy'n llwyr o blaid llunio polisïau tlodi plant mewn trafodaeth â'r bobl hynny sy'n destun polisïau. Pan fyddaf i'n siarad â theuluoedd yn fy etholaeth i sydd yn dioddef tlodi plant, yna'r pethau y maen nhw'n siarad â mi amdanynt yw'r ffaith bod eu budd-daliadau wedi eu rhewi ers y flwyddyn 2015, bod yn rhaid iddyn nhw dalu'r dreth ystafell wely am y fraint o gael rhywle lle gall eu wyrion a'u wyresau ddod i aros gyda nhw, a lle, os ydych chi'n deulu â mwy na thri o blant, y cewch chi eich cosbi gan gap plant y Llywodraeth Geidwadol. Felly, hanes tlodi plant yn ystod datganoli, Llywydd, yw bod tlodi plant yng Nghymru wedi gostwng flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn yn ystod y 10 mlynedd cyntaf, ac yn yr ail ddegawd, bydd y degawd yn dod i ben gyda 50,000 yn fwy o blant mewn tlodi nag a oedd ar ei ddechrau. Wrth gwrs, mae angen i ni lunio ein hymatebion ochr yn ochr â'r bobl hynny sy'n destun y polisïau hynny, ond dyna'r polisïau sydd wedi achosi tlodi plant. Maen nhw wedi gwneud hynny'n fwriadol ac yn ymwybodol, ac mae'n bryd i'r pleidiau yn y Siambr hon sy'n gyfrifol am y polisïau hynny gyfaddef hynny.

Ansawdd Rheolaeth y GIG
The Quality of NHS Management

7. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am ansawdd rheolaeth y GIG? OAQ54188

7. Will the First Minister make a statement on the quality of NHS management? OAQ54188

The Health and Social Care (Quality and Engagement) (Wales) Bill will support a system-wide approach to quality in the NHS, with NHS management being required to deliver a culture of openness and honesty, and improved and continual public engagement in the design and delivery of integrated health and social services. 

Bydd y Bil Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol (Ansawdd ac Ymgysylltu) (Cymru) yn cefnogi dull system gyfan o sicrhau ansawdd yn y GIG, a bydd yn ofynnol i reolwyr y GIG sicrhau diwylliant o fod yn agored ac yn onest, a chynnwys y cyhoedd yn well ac yn barhaus yn y gwaith o gynllunio a darparu gwasanaethau iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol integredig.

I'm grateful to the First Minister for his answer, but does he acknowledge that there's widespread concern about the capacity for certain sections of NHS management in Wales to deal effectively, particularly with the handling of complaints and concerns and with whistleblowing? And does the First Minister agree with me that, in addition to the legislation that he's mentioned, we now need a national values-based set of core competencies for our managers in the NHS in Wales, and that those managers should need to be on a national register, where they have to prove that they continue to be competent, just as our doctors and nurses do, to avoid a situation where people can move around the system? When they've failed in one place, they can pop up somewhere else. We do know that that happens.

Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Prif Weinidog am ei ateb, ond a yw'n cydnabod bod pryder eang ynghylch capasiti rhai adrannau o reolaeth y GIG yng Nghymru i ymdrin yn effeithiol, yn enwedig o ran ymdrin â chwynion a phryderon a chyda chwythu'r chwiban? Ac a yw'r Prif Weinidog yn cytuno â mi bod angen arnom ni nawr, yn ogystal â'r ddeddfwriaeth y mae wedi sôn amdani, gyfres o gymwyseddau craidd sy'n seiliedig ar werthoedd cenedlaethol ar gyfer ein rheolwyr yn y GIG yng Nghymru, ac y dylai fod angen i'r rheolwyr hynny fod ar gofrestr genedlaethol, lle mae'n rhaid iddyn nhw brofi eu bod yn dal i fod yn gymwys, yn union fel y mae ein meddygon a'n nyrsys yn ei wneud, er mwyn osgoi sefyllfa lle gall pobl symud o gwmpas y system? Pan eu bod nhw wedi methu mewn un man, gallan nhw ymddangos yn rhywle arall. Rydym ni'n gwybod bod hynny'n digwydd.

I thank the Member for that and look forward to hearing her set out at greater length her ideas in this area tomorrow. It is an important area for debate, and I think tomorrow will be a valuable contribution to that. There will be a set, as she knows, I'm sure, of complex questions that will lie behind the headlines: the need to be able to define what we mean by a 'manager' in legislative terms, to learn from some of the experiences we've had in the social care sector, where we've had competing regulatory frameworks, for example, for care home managers who are also registered as nurses. Which of the two systems under which they operate are they to be held accountable? How, within a managerial workforce would you distinguish, for example, between someone who has responsibilities for the workforce and somebody who is responsible for managing the budget of a health body? So, I think it's an important debate, but I think it's a complex debate as well, and I look forward to hearing what the Member says tomorrow. In the meantime, the Bill that the Government will bring forward, I think, will make some significant inroads into the general issues that Helen Mary Jones began her question with, and that, too, will be scrutinised through the Assembly and no doubt improved as a result.

Diolchaf i'r Aelod am hynna ac edrychaf ymlaen at ei chlywed yn cyflwyno'n fwy manwl ei syniadau yn y maes hwn yfory. Mae'n faes pwysig i'w drafod, a chredaf y bydd yfory'n gyfraniad gwerthfawr i  hynny. Bydd cyfres, fel y mae hi'n gwybod, rwy'n siŵr, o gwestiynau cymhleth a fydd y tu ôl i'r penawdau: yr angen i allu diffinio'r hyn yr ydym ni'n ei olygu wrth ddweud 'rheolwr' mewn termau deddfwriaethol, i ddysgu o rai o'r profiadau yr ydym ni wedi eu cael yn y sector gofal cymdeithasol , lle'r ydym ni wedi cael fframweithiau rheoleiddio yn cystadlu â'i gilydd, er enghraifft, ar gyfer rheolwyr cartrefi gofal sydd hefyd wedi eu cofrestru fel nyrsys. O dan ba un o'r ddwy system y maen nhw'n gweithredu oddi tanynt y dylid eu dwyn i gyfrif? Sut, mewn gweithlu rheoli y byddech chi'n gwahaniaethu, er enghraifft, rhwng rhywun sydd â chyfrifoldebau am y gweithlu a rhywun sy'n gyfrifol am reoli cyllideb corff iechyd? Felly, rwy'n credu bod hon yn ddadl bwysig, ond rwy'n credu ei bod yn ddadl gymhleth hefyd, ac edrychaf ymlaen at glywed yr hyn y bydd yr Aelod yn ei ddweud yfory. Yn y cyfamser, bydd y Bil y bydd y Llywodraeth yn ei gyflwyno, rwy'n credu, yn gwneud cyfraniad sylweddol at y materion cyffredinol y dechreuodd Helen Mary Jones ei chwestiwn â nhw, a bydd hynny hefyd yn destun craffu drwy'r Cynulliad ac yn ddi-au yn cael ei wella o ganlyniad i hynny.

My colleague for Mid and West Wales has made some very good points, but leaving it for a debate tomorrow, for thought over the next few months, the next few years, I don't think gets to the nub of the current crisis we have.

First Minister, you know as well as I do we have a number of health boards that are in a dire state. We've got a lack of fresh blood, we have the same team going around, with chairs being reappointed to new health boards who've been in existence in already struggling health boards. We've got chief executives, we've got whole management teams, we have a health Minister who you absolutely have faith in and you say that the problem is not with him. Well, if the problem with our NHS does not rest with you, your Government, your health Minister, the rest of your Cabinet colleagues, then surely it rests with the senior management of the NHS, because they are paid the big bucks to deliver the services our patients require, and they are paid the big bucks to be accountable.

What I would like to understand, through this question, is what accountability and quality measures are there currently in place, not what might come down the road in months and years to come, but now, today, so that we know we've got the best team working at it. Because when you look at the postbags that we all have coming through our doors, we don't see the evidence on the front line.

Mae fy nghyd-Aelod dros Ganolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru wedi gwneud rhai pwyntiau da iawn, ond nid yw eu gadael ar gyfer dadl yfory, i gnoi cil arnynt dros yr ychydig fisoedd nesaf, yr ychydig flynyddoedd nesaf, yn cyrraedd hanfod yr argyfwng presennol sydd gennym ni, yn fy marn i.

Prif Weinidog, rydych chi'n gwybod cystal â minnau bod gennym ni nifer o fyrddau iechyd sydd mewn cyflwr truenus. Mae gennym ni ddiffyg gwaed ffres, mae gennym ni'r un tîm yn mynd o gwmpas, gyda chadeiryddion yn cael eu hailbenodi i fyrddau iechyd newydd sydd wedi bod mewn bodolaeth mewn byrddau iechyd sydd eisoes mewn trafferthion. Mae gennym ni brif weithredwyr, mae gennym ni dimau rheoli cyfan, mae gennym ni Weinidog iechyd y mae gennych chi ffydd ynddo yn llwyr ac rydych chi'n dweud nag ef yw'r broblem. Wel, os nad chi, eich Llywodraeth, eich Gweinidog iechyd, gweddill eich cyd-Weinidogion yn y Cabinet sy'n gyfrifol am y broblem gyda'n GIG, yna siawns mai uwch reolwyr y GIG sy'n gyfrifol, gan y telir yr arian mawr iddyn nhw i ddarparu'r gwasanaethau sydd eu hangen ar ein cleifion, a thelir yr arian mawr iddyn nhw i fod yn atebol.

Yr hyn yr hoffwn i ei ddeall, drwy'r cwestiwn hwn, yw pa fesurau atebolrwydd ac ansawdd sydd ar waith ar hyn o bryd, nid beth allai ddod yn ddiweddarach ymhen misoedd a blynyddoedd i ddod, ond nawr, heddiw, fel ein bod ni'n gwybod bod gennym ni'r tîm gorau yn gweithio ar y mater. Oherwydd pan edrychwch chi ar y bagiau post sydd gan bob un ohonom ni'n dod drwy ein drysau, nid ydym yn gweld y dystiolaeth ar y rheng flaen.


Well, Llywydd, here is the Welsh NHS, which, at the end of March, at the end of the annual cycle of reporting, had the lowest waiting times since 2013, fewer people waiting more than 26 weeks than for the last five years, a health service in which 30 per cent more people are treated within waiting times for cancer than they were five years ago, and where survival rates are better than ever before at one year and five years, a health service in which delayed transfers of care, in 2017 and 2018, were the two lowest years since those figures were ever collected. This is the health service that the Member wishes to describe as being in a dire state. It is simply not true. It simply does not reflect the state of the service that millions of people, year in and year out, get from the Welsh NHS. Caricaturing it in the way that the Member does does nothing to bring about the—[Interruption.]—nothing to bring about the improvements that we and she would wish to see. And those improvements that I have outlined are partly the result of the efforts that managers in the NHS make, as well as clinicians and others. We want a clear accountability system and we want to make sure that we have a system focused on quality. We already have one; we want to improve it further. That's why we're bringing forward legislation, and the legislation needs to be based on the facts of the health service in Wales, not a sort of general attempt to denigrate its reputation, where the evidence for that simply isn't available.

Wel, Llywydd, dyma GIG Cymru, a oedd, ddiwedd mis Mawrth, ar ddiwedd y cylch blynyddol o adrodd, â'r amseroedd aros isaf ers 2013, llai o bobl yn aros mwy na 26 wythnos nag yn ystod y pum mlynedd diwethaf, gwasanaeth iechyd lle mae 30 y cant yn fwy o bobl yn cael eu trin o fewn amseroedd aros ar gyfer canser nag yr oedden nhw bum mlynedd yn ôl, a lle mae cyfraddau goroesi yn well nag erioed o'r blaen ar ôl blwyddyn a phum mlynedd, gwasanaeth iechyd lle'r oedd achosion o oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal, yn 2017 a 2018, y ddwy flynedd isaf ers i'r ffigurau hynny gael eu casglu erioed. Dyma'r gwasanaeth iechyd y mae'r Aelod yn dymuno ei ddisgrifio fel un sydd mewn cyflwr enbyd. Nid yw'n wir o gwbl. Yn syml, nid yw'n adlewyrchu cyflwr y gwasanaeth y mae miliynau o bobl yn ei gael gan GIG Cymru o'r naill flwyddyn i'r llall. Nid yw ei ddychanu yn y ffordd y mae'r Aelod yn ei wneud yn gwneud dim i sicrhau—[Torri ar draws.]—dim i sicrhau'r gwelliannau y byddem ni a hithau yn dymuno eu gweld. Ac mae'r gwelliannau hynny yr wyf i wedi eu hamlinellu yn deillio'n rhannol o'r ymdrechion y mae rheolwyr y GIG, yn ogystal â chlinigwyr ac eraill, yn eu gwneud. Rydym ni eisiau system o atebolrwydd eglur ac rydym ni eisiau gwneud yn siŵr bod gennym ni system sy'n canolbwyntio ar ansawdd. Mae gennym ni un eisoes; rydym ni eisiau ei gwella ymhellach. Dyna pam yr ydym ni'n cyflwyno deddfwriaeth, ac mae angen i'r ddeddfwriaeth fod yn seiliedig ar ffeithiau'r gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru, nid rhyw fath o ymgais gyffredinol i fychanu ei enw da, pan nad yw'r dystiolaeth ar gyfer hynny ar gael o gwbl.

Ac yn olaf, cwestiwn 8—Huw Irranca-Davies.

And finally, question 8—Huw Irranca-Davies.

Y Cynnig Gofal Plant yn Ogwr
The Childcare Offer in Ogmore

8. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am gynnydd y cynnig gofal plant yn Ogwr? OAQ54142

8. Will the First Minister make a statement on the progress of the childcare offer in Ogmore? OAQ54142

This Government’s ambitious childcare offer has been available to parents in Ogmore since the end of April this year. In that time, over 300 families have taken up the offer, with more applications coming in every week.

Mae cynnig gofal plant uchelgeisiol y Llywodraeth hon wedi bod ar gael i rieni yn Ogwr ers diwedd mis Ebrill eleni. Yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw, mae dros 300 o deuluoedd wedi manteisio ar y cynnig, gyda mwy o geisiadau'n dod i mewn bob wythnos.

It's really great news that the childcare offer is not only on schedule but ahead of schedule, because it allows us to think, now, what might come next in a more joined-up approach to early years provision as well. We've got time to think now. But it is really good news. Could I ask—and I thank the Minister for discussions we've had already—that the officials behind the iteration within Bridgend make sure that they have a good discussion with Bridgend County Borough Council? The reason being that historically they've overprovided the foundation phase to the tune of around 25 to 30 hours per child. Now, this is well ahead, in advance, of many other local authority areas in Wales, but it's before we started on the childcare offer. So, I wonder whether, working with the excellent Minister we have for the childcare offer and her officials, we could make sure that we do engage with Bridgend, not to throw the baby out with the bath water. Sorry—not that there are any babies involved in this at all. But to make sure that the children who are already provided with excellent foundation phase early years education are still provided for, going on, as it morphs into the new scheme. 

Mae'n newyddion gwirioneddol wych nid yn unig bod y cynnig gofal plant nid yn unig yn cydymffurfio â'r amserlen ond yn rhagori ar hynny, gan ei fod yn caniatáu i ni feddwl, nawr, beth allai ddod nesaf mewn dull mwy cydgysylltiedig o ymdrin â darpariaeth y blynyddoedd cynnar hefyd. Mae gennym ni amser i feddwl nawr. Ond mae'n newyddion da iawn. A gaf i ofyn—a diolchaf i'r Gweinidog am y trafodaethau yr ydym ni wedi eu cael eisoes—bod y swyddogion y tu ôl i'r iteriad ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr yn sicrhau eu bod nhw'n cael trafodaeth dda gyda Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr? Y rheswm am hynny yw eu bod nhw, yn hanesyddol, wedi gorddarparu'r cyfnod sylfaen gan oddeutu 25 i 30 awr y plentyn. Nawr, mae hyn ymhell ar y blaen i lawer o ardaloedd awdurdod lleol eraill yng Nghymru, ond mae hyn cyn ein bod ni wedi dechrau ar y cynnig gofal plant. Felly, rwy'n meddwl tybed, gan weithio gyda'r Gweinidog rhagorol sydd gennym ni ar gyfer y cynnig gofal plant a'i swyddogion, a allem ni wneud yn siŵr ein bod ni'n ymgysylltu â Phen-y-bont ar Ogwr, ac nid cadw'r brych a lluchio'r babi. Mae'n ddrwg gen i—nid bod unrhyw fabanod yn rhan o hyn o gwbl. Ond i wneud yn siŵr bod y plant sydd eisoes yn cael addysg y blynyddoedd cynnar ragorol yn y cyfnod sylfaen yn parhau i gael darpariaeth, yn y dyfodol, wrth i hyn esblygu i'r cynllun newydd.

I thank the Member for both those points and thank him for reminding us that the roll-out of the childcare offer in Wales is ahead of schedule and now available in all parts of Wales. Thinking of Lynne Neagle's earlier question, 88 per cent of families who take part in the childcare offer report that they have more money left in their pockets for other purposes at the end of every single week. 

On the other point that Huw Irranca-Davies made about Bridgend-specific issues, he'll be glad to know that Julie Morgan, the Deputy Minister, is meeting Councillor Huw David, the leader of Bridgend council, on 9 July, next week. That meeting is set up to discuss childcare and wider opportunities to work collaboratively on early years work in Bridgend, and I'm sure the matters that the local Member has raised this afternoon will be part of that agenda.

Hoffwn ddiolch i'r Aelod am y ddau bwynt yna a diolch iddo am ein hatgoffa bod cyflwyno'r cynnig gofal plant yng Nghymru yn digwydd yn gynharach na'r disgwyl ac ar gael ym mhob rhan o Gymru erbyn hyn. Gan feddwl am gwestiwn cynharach Lynne Neagle, mae 88 y cant o'r teuluoedd sy'n cymryd rhan yn y cynnig gofal plant yn dweud bod ganddyn nhw fwy o arian ar ôl yn eu pocedi at ddibenion eraill ar ddiwedd bob un wythnos.

O ran y pwynt arall a wnaeth Huw Irranca-Davies ynghylch materion sy'n benodol i Ben-y-bont ar Ogwr, bydd yn falch o wybod bod Julie Morgan, y Dirprwy Weinidog, yn cyfarfod â'r Cynghorydd Huw David, arweinydd cyngor Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, ar 9 Gorffennaf, yr wythnos nesaf. Trefnwyd y cyfarfod hwnnw i drafod gofal plant a chyfleoedd ehangach i weithio ar y cyd ar waith y blynyddoedd cynnar ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd y materion y mae'r Aelod lleol wedi eu codi y prynhawn yma yn rhan o'r agenda honno.

2. Datganiad a Chyhoeddiad Busnes
2. Business Statement and Announcement

Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r datganiad a chyhoeddiad busnes. Dwi'n galw ar y Trefnydd i wneud ei datganiad—Rebecca Evans.

The next item is the business statement and announcement. I call the Trefnydd to make the statement—Rebecca Evans.

Diolch, Llywydd. There is one change to today's agenda and that is that the statement on the economic action plan and economic development measures has been withdrawn. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out in the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the papers available to Members electronically.

Diolch, Llywydd. Ceir un newid i'r agenda heddiw, sef bod y datganiad ar y cynllun gweithredu economaidd a'r mesurau datblygu economaidd wedi ei dynnu'n ôl. Mae'r busnes drafft ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf wedi ei nodi yn y datganiad a chyhoeddiad busnes, sydd i'w weld ymhlith y papurau sydd ar gael i'r Aelodau yn electronig.

I couldn't hear the Trefnydd there. If we can conduct proceedings in a bit more silence, that would help. But I'm assuming she said something quite similar to what was in the business statement this morning, so we'll carry on. I won't ask you to repeat it. Janet Finch-Saunders.

Doeddwn i ddim yn gallu clywed y Trefnydd yn y fan yna. Os gallwn ni gynnal ein trafodion mewn ychydig mwy o dawelwch, byddai hynny'n helpu. Ond rwy'n tybio ei bod hi wedi dweud rhywbeth digon tebyg i'r hyn a oedd yn y datganiad busnes y bore yma, felly fe awn ymlaen. Wnaf i ddim gofyn i chi ei ailadrodd. Janet Finch-Saunders.


Thank you, Llywydd. Trefnydd, last Friday, I had the pleasure of visiting three care homes in north-west Wales. My experience confirmed what I stated here in the Senedd last month—that we are heading towards a very serious care home crisis. What I saw was care providers doing their very best to ensure that they provide high-quality care. However, they are having to do this whilst fighting to stay afloat, because of unfair funding from local authorities, and especially the north Wales health board. This brings me to the shocking facts that I want you all to be aware of.

On 26 June 2019, Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board issued an e-mail to care providers, stating that they have just now approved the continuing healthcare fees for 2018-19. What this means in reality is that care homes are receiving patients from hospitals, and they only found out last week what they will be paid for care provided from 1 April. We are now in July. So, in one instance, this meant that a home did not know how much money they're being paid in relation to what is around 50 per cent of their clients. It is impossible to properly manage a business—and that's what care home providers are doing: they are running a very vital, much needed business as well—with such major budgetary uncertainties. So I really do believe that we are on the precipice of losing 1,500 beds in Wales by 2024. That is the figure that has been predicted by those in the care sector. BCUHB is damaging the care home sector, which does so much to help it.

Will you ask the Minister for Health and Social Services to commit to making a statement on the CHC fees, and undertake an investigation so as to ascertain why care providers are only now being advised how much they will be paid for the wonderful services that they provide? It is no way for any company to run a business. One that actually looks after and provides treatment, care and support for the most vulnerable in our society has a right to know how they can map out their own financial requirements. So I believe this is not only a failure of the health board, but I think it's a weakness of your Government. So I'm very, very interested that you take this matter very seriously, please. Thank you.

Diolch, Llywydd. Trefnydd, ddydd Gwener diwethaf, cefais y pleser o ymweld â thri chartref gofal yn y gogledd-orllewin. Fe gadarnhaodd y profiad hwn yr hyn a ddywedais yma yn y Senedd y mis diwethaf—fod argyfwng difrifol iawn yn ein hwynebu mewn cartrefi gofal. Yr hyn a welais oedd darparwyr gofal yn gwneud eu gorau glas i sicrhau eu bod yn darparu gofal o ansawdd uchel. Fodd bynnag, maen nhw'n gorfod gwneud hyn wrth frwydro i gael dau ben llinyn ynghyd, oherwydd cyllido annheg gan awdurdodau lleol, ac yn enwedig, Bwrdd Iechyd Gogledd Cymru. Daw hyn â mi at y ffeithiau syfrdanol yr wyf eisiau i bob un ohonoch fod yn ymwybodol ohonynt.

Ar 26 Mehefin 2019, anfonodd Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr e-bost at ddarparwyr gofal, yn nodi eu bod newydd gymeradwyo'r ffioedd gofal iechyd parhaus ar gyfer 2018-19. Yr hyn a olyga mewn gwirionedd yw bod cartrefi gofal yn derbyn cleifion o ysbytai, a dim ond yr wythnos diwethaf y cawsant wybod am yr hyn y cânt eu talu am ofal a ddarperir o 1 Ebrill ymlaen. Rydym bellach ym mis Gorffennaf. Felly, mewn un achos, roedd hyn yn golygu nad oedd cartref yn gwybod faint o arian a delir iddyn nhw am tua 50 y cant o'u cleientiaid. Mae'n amhosibl rheoli busnes yn iawn—a dyna mae darparwyr cartrefi gofal yn ei wneud: maen nhw'n rhedeg busnes hanfodol iawn, un y mae mawr angen amdano hefyd a hynny gyda chymaint o ansicrwydd cyllidebol. Felly, credaf yn wir ein bod yn agos iawn at golli 1,500 o welyau yng Nghymru erbyn 2024. Dyna'r ffigur y mae pobl yn y sector gofal wedi'i ddarogan. Mae Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr yn niweidio'r sector cartrefi gofal, sy'n gwneud cymaint i'w helpu.

A wnewch chi ofyn i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ymrwymo i wneud datganiad ar ffioedd y cynghorau iechyd cymuned, a chynnal ymchwiliad er mwyn canfod pam mai dim ond yn awr y mae darparwyr gofal yn cael eu cynghori ynghylch faint y byddant yn cael eu talu am y gwasanaethau gwych a ddarparant? Nid yw hyn yn ffordd i unrhyw gwmni redeg busnes. Mae gan gwmni sy'n gofalu ac yn darparu triniaeth, gofal a chymorth ar gyfer y bobl fwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas yr hawl i wybod sut y gallant drefnu eu gofynion ariannol eu hunain. Felly, rwy'n credu bod hyn nid yn unig yn fethiant ar ran y Bwrdd Iechyd, ond rwy'n credu ei fod yn wendid ar ran eich Llywodraeth. Felly, mae gennyf ddiddordeb mawr i weld eich bod yn cymryd y mater hwn o ddifrif, os gwelwch yn dda. Diolch.

Well, Llywydd, the health Minister has been here to listen to Janet Finch-Saunders's concerns, but perhaps if she puts the detail of those particular concerns in some correspondence to the health Minister, he'll be able to look at it in more depth.

Wel, Llywydd, mae'r Gweinidog Iechyd wedi bod yma i wrando ar bryderon Janet Finch-Saunders, ond efallai, os bydd hi'n rhoi manylion y pryderon penodol hynny mewn gohebiaeth i'r Gweinidog Iechyd, fe fydd yn gallu edrych arnynt yn fwy manwl.

Trefnydd, the development of a feasibility study into a Swansea bay and western Valleys metro was something that was agreed between Plaid Cymru and the Welsh Government as part of the 2017 budget. Since that time, with Swansea Council leading on the regional piece of work, we have heard the UK Government announce that it supports the development of a west Wales parkway rail station, on land at Felindre, Swansea. I've been consistent in stating that east-west rail improvements cannot be looked at, however, in isolation, and that the Swansea bay and western Valleys metro, as well as seeing services to Swansea and Neath stations protected, also needs to bring in other routes being brought back into use—the Aman and Swansea valley rail route, for instance—and ensuring quality transport links to the Neath, Dulais and Afan valleys. I believe that the Welsh Government needs to be providing leadership and vision on this issue. And back in February, I asked the Minister for Economy and Transport to bring forward a statement on how he sees the west Wales parkway interlinking with the wider challenge of developing further rail and tram infrastructure within the region, as part of the Swansea bay metro. You stated that the Minister would be prepared to do so, but as of yet no time has been allocated for this. Could I again ask, therefore—nearly five months on—whether time will now be given for a statement on this important issue in this Chamber?

Trefnydd, roedd datblygu astudiaeth ddichonoldeb i fetro Bae Abertawe a'r Cymoedd gorllewinol yn rhywbeth y cytunwyd arno rhwng Plaid Cymru a Llywodraeth Cymru fel rhan o gyllideb 2017. Ers hynny, gyda Chyngor Abertawe yn arwain ar y rhan o waith rhanbarthol, yr ydym wedi clywed Llywodraeth y DU yn cyhoeddi ei bod yn cefnogi datblygu gorsaf reilffordd parcffordd yn y gorllewin, ar dir yn Felindre, Abertawe. Fodd bynnag, rwyf wedi bod yn gyson wrth ddweud na ellir edrych ar welliannau i'r rheilffyrdd rhwng y dwyrain a'r gorllewin ar eu pen eu hunain, a bod angen i'r metro ym Mae Abertawe a Chymoedd y gorllewin, yn ogystal â gweld gwasanaethau i orsafoedd Abertawe a Chastell-nedd wedi'u diogelu, ail-ddechrau defnyddio llwybrau eraill unwaith eto—llwybr rheilffordd Dyffryn Aman ac Abertawe, er enghraifft—a sicrhau cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth o safon i gymoedd Castell-nedd, Dulais ac Afan. Credaf fod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru ddarparu arweiniad a gweledigaeth ar y mater hwn. Ac yn ôl ym mis Chwefror, gofynnais i'r Gweinidog Economi a Thrafnidiaeth gyflwyno datganiad am y modd y mae'n gweld parcffordd y gorllewin yn cyd-gysylltu â'r her ehangach o ddatblygu rhagor o seilwaith rheilffyrdd a thramiau yn y rhanbarth, fel rhan o fetro Bae Abertawe. Dywedasoch y byddai'r Gweinidog yn barod i wneud hynny, ond hyd yma, ni neilltuwyd amser ar gyfer hyn. A gaf i ofyn eto, felly—bron i bum mis yn ddiweddarach—a ellir rhoi amser nawr am ddatganiad ar y mater pwysig hwn yn y Siambr hon?

Thank you for raising this issue. And of course, Welsh Government has been very clear that any parkway station cannot be at the expense of Swansea city centre, and I think that that statement was made very clearly by Welsh Government. We do have a debate tomorrow that looks at the future of Transport for Wales, so that might be an opportunity to raise these particular concerns with the transport Minister. But I will ask him to write to you with the latest on this particular issue.

Diolch ichi am godi'r mater hwn. Ac wrth gwrs, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn glir iawn na all unrhyw orsaf barcffordd fod ar draul canol dinas Abertawe, a chredaf fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gwneud y datganiad hwnnw'n glir iawn. Mae gennym ddadl yfory sy'n edrych ar ddyfodol Trafnidiaeth i Gymru, felly gallai hynny fod yn gyfle i godi'r pryderon penodol hyn gyda'r Gweinidog Trafnidiaeth. Ond byddaf yn gofyn iddo ysgrifennu atoch gyda'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y mater penodol hwn.

Minister, can I ask for two statements? The first one relates to the announcement with regard to the NHS England long-term plan that some 14 NHS gambling centres are to be set up, part funded by the Gambling Commission. It seems to me this is an area that we should actually be taking action on ourselves, and I wonder if we could get a statement as to what approaches have been made for funding from the Gambling Commission to ensure that the inadequate moneys that are raised, by way of a voluntary levy for the Gambling Commission, are also equally shared throughout the UK, so the resources are also available for us to deal with this matter, as identified within the chief medical officer's report last year.

And can I also ask for a statement in respect of the position with the Ford workers in Bridgend—200 of whom live within my constituency? One constituent wrote to me and said, 'The company has offered me a redundancy package, including a deferred pension to be taken at 55. I am 46.' The point he raises is, because of UK Government changes in the pension age, it means effectively he stands to lose some £50,000 to £60,000. It seems to me this is a gross anomaly in the treatment of Ford workers, and certainly should be a matter that I know the unions will almost certainly be raising, but that we could also raise, in terms of the fairness with which Welsh workers are being treated in this matter. 

Gweinidog, a gaf fi ofyn am ddau ddatganiad? Mae'r cyntaf yn ymwneud â'r cyhoeddiad ynglŷn â chynllun hirdymor GIG Lloegr fod tua 14 o ganolfannau hapchwarae'r GIG i gael eu sefydlu, wedi'u hariannu'n rhannol gan y Comisiwn Hapchwarae. Ymddengys i mi fod hwn yn faes y dylem fod yn gweithredu arno ein hunain, a tybed a fyddai modd inni gael datganiad ynghylch pa geisiadau a wnaed am gyllid gan y Comisiwn Hapchwarae i sicrhau bod yr arian annigonol a godir, ar ffurf ardoll wirfoddol ar gyfer y Comisiwn Hapchwarae, hefyd yn cael ei rannu'n gyfartal ledled y DU. Byddai'r adnoddau, felly, ar gael i ni hefyd ddelio â'r mater hwn, fel y nodwyd yn adroddiad y Prif Swyddog Meddygol y llynedd.

Ac a gaf i ofyn hefyd am ddatganiad ynglŷn â'r sefyllfa o ran gweithwyr Ford ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr—mae 200 ohonyn nhw'n byw yn fy etholaeth i? Ysgrifennodd un etholwr ataf a dweud, 'Mae'r cwmni wedi cynnig pecyn diswyddo imi, gan gynnwys pensiwn gohiriedig i'w gymryd pan fyddaf yn 55. Rwyf yn 46 oed.' Y pwynt y mae'n ei godi yw, o ganlyniad i newidiadau Llywodraeth y DU yn yr oedran pensiwn, mae'n golygu i bob pwrpas y bydd yn colli oddeutu £50,000 i £60,000. Ymddengys i mi fod hyn yn anghysonder difrifol yn y modd y caiff gweithwyr Ford eu trin, a gwn yn sicr ei fod yn fater y bydd yr undebau'n debygol o'i godi, ond fe allem ni ei godi hefyd, o ran pa mor deg y mae gweithwyr Cymru'n cael eu trin yn y mater hwn.


I thank Mick Antoniw for raising both of these issues. On the first, which relates to the issue of gambling, I know that health officials are having some discussions to explore what, if any, funding might be forthcoming for Welsh Government with regard to gambling, because, as Mick identified, the chief medical officer's report specifically looked at a chapter on gambling, and, since then, there have been some significant improvements. So, questions on gambling have been added to the health behaviour in school-age children and school health research network survey during 2017-18, and questions on frequency, participation and attitudes to gambling will be included in the national survey for the first time in 2020-21. I know that these are both things that Mick has been particularly pressing for for a long time.

The chief medical officer has had discussions with GambleAware and the directors of public health in Wales to explore how existing services, such as mental health support services, can be used to support problem gamblers, and, of course, on 1 July a new national citizens advice bureau programme was launched with two new support hubs based in Denbighshire and Rhondda Cynon Taf, and those will be able to provide outreach training to third parties to ensure that front-line workers are equipped with the relevant skills to recognise and support people with problem gambling. And I know Mick has a question to the Minister for Health and Social Services on this topic tomorrow, so he'll be able to provide further detail on the progress that has been made since the chief medical officer's report.

On the issue of pensions, clearly, what Mick described is very much of a concern, and we would obviously urge Ford to put the best deal possible to their loyal workers. Mick's point reminds us, of course, that there are Ford workers across the length and breadth of Wales, particularly in south Wales, and they will certainly need Welsh Government and their unions to be putting a strong message forward that fairness absolutely has to be at the heart of any deal. 

The taskforce people work stream, in conjunction with Ford, the trade unions and the pensions regulator, will consider the provision of appropriate independent advice for the workforce as they plan their financial futures, but the case study, which Mick has brought forward, I will ensure is brought to the attention of that taskforce. 

Diolch i Mick Antoniw am godi'r ddau fater hyn. O ran y cyntaf, sy'n ymwneud â hapchwarae, gwn fod swyddogion iechyd yn cael rhai trafodaethau i archwilio pa arian, os o gwbl, a allai ddod i Lywodraeth Cymru mewn cysylltiad â gamblo, oherwydd, fel y nododd Mick, fe edrychodd adroddiad y Prif Swyddog Meddygol yn benodol ar bennod am gamblo, ac ers hynny, fe wnaed rhai gwelliannau sylweddol. Felly, mae cwestiynau ar gamblo wedi cael eu hychwanegu at yr arolwg o ymddygiad iechyd plant oedran ysgol ac ymchwil rhwydwaith iechyd ysgolion yn ystod 2017-18. Hefyd, bydd cwestiynau ar amlder, cyfranogiad ac agweddau tuag at gamblo yn cael eu cynnwys yn yr Arolwg Cenedlaethol am y tro cyntaf yn 2020-21. Gwn fod hyn yn rhywbeth y mae Mick wedi bod yn gofyn amdano'n gryf iawn ers amser maith.

Mae'r prif swyddog meddygol wedi cael trafodaethau gyda GambleAware a chyfarwyddwyr iechyd y cyhoedd yng Nghymru i archwilio sut y gellir defnyddio gwasanaethau presennol, megis gwasanaethau cymorth iechyd meddwl, i gefnogi gamblwyr problemus, ac wrth gwrs, ar 1 Gorffennaf, fe lansiwyd rhaglen newydd genedlaethol y Ganolfan Gynghori gyda dwy ganolfan gymorth newydd yn Sir Ddinbych a Rhondda Cynon Taf, a bydd y rheini'n gallu darparu hyfforddiant allgymorth i drydydd parti i sicrhau bod gweithwyr rheng flaen yn meddu ar y sgiliau perthnasol i adnabod a chefnogi pobl â phroblem gamblo. Ac rwy'n gwybod bod gan Mick gwestiwn i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ar y pwnc hwn yfory, felly bydd yn gallu rhoi rhagor o fanylion am y cynnydd sydd wedi'i wneud ers adroddiad y Prif Swyddog Meddygol.

O ran pensiynau, yn amlwg, mae'r hyn a ddisgrifiodd Mick yn destun pryder mawr, a byddem wrth reswm yn annog Ford i roi'r fargen orau posibl i'w gweithwyr ffyddlon. Mae pwynt Mick yn ein hatgoffa, wrth gwrs, fod gweithwyr Ford ar hyd a lled Cymru, yn enwedig yn y de, ac yn sicr bydd angen i Lywodraeth Cymru a'u hundebau gyflwyno neges gref bod yn rhaid cael tegwch wrth wraidd unrhyw fargen. 

Bydd ffrwd waith pobl y tasglu, ar y cyd â Ford, yr undebau llafur a'r rheoleiddiwr pensiynau, yn ystyried darparu cyngor annibynnol priodol i'r gweithlu wrth iddyn nhw gynllunio eu dyfodol ariannol, ond byddaf yn sicr o ddod â'r astudiaeth achos a gyflwynwyd gan Mick i sylw'r tasglu hwnnw.  

Minister, please, could I ask for a statement from the Deputy Minister and Chief Whip on transgender hate crimes in Wales? Figures obtained by the BBC from police forces in Wales show that the number of recorded transgender hate crimes has more than doubled in the last two years. While some of this increase may be put down to past under-reporting and more people now being willing to come forward to report their experiences, these figures clearly show that abuse or violence directed at people on the basis of transgender is on the rise. Please, could we have a statement from the Deputy Minister on what more can be done to protect transgender people and to increase awareness and understanding of transgender issues in the wider community in Wales? Thank you. 

Gweinidog, a gaf i ofyn am ddatganiad gan y Dirprwy Weinidog a'r Prif Chwip ar droseddau casineb trawsryweddol yng Nghymru? Mae ffigurau a gafwyd gan y BBC o heddluoedd yng Nghymru yn dangos bod nifer y troseddau casineb trawsryweddol a gofnodwyd wedi mwy na dyblu yn ystod y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf. Mae'n bosib bod rhywfaint o'r cynnydd hwn o ganlyniad i dangofnodi yn y gorffennol a bod mwy o bobl bellach yn barod i ddod ymlaen i roi gwybod am eu profiadau, mae'r ffigurau hyn yn dangos yn glir bod camdriniaeth neu drais a gyfeirir at bobl ar sail trawsrywedd ar gynnydd. A gawn ni ddatganiad gan y Dirprwy Weinidog ynghylch beth yn rhagor y gellir ei wneud i amddiffyn pobl drawsryweddol ac i gynyddu ymwybyddiaeth a dealltwriaeth o faterion trawsryweddol yn y gymuned ehangach yng Nghymru, os gwelwch yn dda? Diolch.

I'm very grateful for this point being raised in the Chamber. Hate crime in all its manifestations is clearly of deep concern to us. And it is very concerning that the number of people coming forward as victims of transgender hate crime has increased. If it's the case that people feel more comfortable coming forward, then that in itself is a positive thing, but nonetheless any hate crime of this sort is clearly something that we have to work across party to tackle, but I will be sure that the Deputy Minister and Chief Whip provides the latest update on what the Welsh Government is doing in this particular area.FootnoteLink

Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn fod y pwynt hwn wedi cael ei godi yn y Siambr. Mae'n amlwg fod troseddau casineb yn ei holl ffurfiau yn peri pryder mawr i ni. Ac mae'n destun pryder mawr bod nifer y bobl sy'n cyflwyno'u hunain fel dioddefwyr troseddau casineb trawsryweddol wedi cynyddu. Os yw'n wir bod pobl yn teimlo'n fwy cyfforddus i fod yn agored am hyn, mae hynny ynddo'i hun yn beth cadarnhaol, ond er hynny mae unrhyw drosedd casineb o'r math hwn yn amlwg yn rhywbeth y mae'n rhaid inni weithio'n drawsbleidiol i fynd i'r afael ag ef, ond fe wnaf yn siŵr fod y Dirprwy Weinidog a'r Prif Chwip yn rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am yr hyn y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud yn y maes penodol hwn.FootnoteLink


Last weekend, I spent the evening in Swansea with a group of volunteers who go out every Sunday evening with food, toiletries, warm clothing et cetera for homeless people. Some of the people I spoke to had absolutely nothing, and they were very grateful for the food and the provisions, and they shared with us some of their experiences. I heard from a number of people how they or their friends had been arrested under the Vagrancy Act. Now, the Vagrancy Act was brought in in 1824. It's antiquated. It was introduced to tackle homelessness caused by veterans returning from the Napoleonic wars. It specifically criminalises rough sleeping and begging—you can be arrested for either. One young woman told me on Sunday night, 'It's illegal to be homeless, yet it's not illegal to make someone homeless,' and I thought that was quite a profound statement. She told us how the police regularly clear out the streets, arresting people and removing their belongings, despite the fact that the First Minister told me last week that this was not Government policy. Wales is largely powerless to do anything about the Vagrancy Act, due to our lack of criminal justice powers. In Scotland and in the north of Ireland, the Act has already been repealed. For me, that provides yet another example as to why we need to see the devolution of the criminal justice system. It's yet another practical example of what those powers could do for us. We should be offering assistance to people who are forced to live on the streets. We should not be criminalising them. It's time you as a Government said enough is enough, and I would be grateful if you would be prepared to allow a debate, in Government time, favouring the devolution of criminal justice powers with a view to repealing the Vagrancy Act.

Y penwythnos diwethaf, treuliais y noson yn Abertawe gyda grŵp o wirfoddolwyr sy'n mynd allan bob nos Sul gyda bwyd, deunydd ymolchi, dillad cynnes ac ati ar gyfer bobl ddigartref. Doedd gan rai o'r bobl y siaradais i â hwy ddim byd o gwbl, ac roedden nhw'n ddiolchgar iawn am y bwyd a'r darpariaethau, ac fe wnaethant rannu rhai o'u profiadau â ni. Clywais gan nifer o bobl sut yr oedden nhw neu eu ffrindiau wedi cael eu harestio o dan y Ddeddf Crwydradaeth. Nawr, cyflwynwyd y Ddeddf Crwydradaeth ym 1824. Mae'n hen ffasiwn. Fe'i cyflwynwyd i fynd i'r afael â digartrefedd a achoswyd gan gyn-filwyr yn dychwelyd o'r rhyfeloedd Napoleonaidd. Yn benodol, mae'n gwneud cysgu allan a chardota yn drosedd—gallwch gael eich arestio am y naill neu'r llall. Dywedodd un fenyw ifanc wrthyf nos Sul, 'Mae'n anghyfreithlon bod yn ddigartref, eto nid yw'n anghyfreithlon gwneud rhywun yn ddigartref,' ac roeddwn yn meddwl bod hwnnw'n ddatganiad eithaf dwys. Dywedodd wrthym fod yr heddlu'n clirio'r strydoedd yn rheolaidd, yn arestio pobl ac yn symud eu heiddo, er gwaethaf y ffaith bod y Prif Weinidog wedi dweud wrthyf yr wythnos diwethaf nad oedd hyn yn bolisi gan y Llywodraeth. I raddau helaeth, nid oes gan Gymru'r pŵer i wneud unrhyw beth am y Ddeddf Crwydradaeth oherwydd ein diffyg pwerau cyfiawnder troseddol. Yn yr Alban ac yng Ngogledd Iwerddon, mae'r Ddeddf eisoes wedi'i diddymu. I mi, mae hynny'n un enghraifft arall pam y mae angen i'r system cyfiawnder troseddol gael ei datganoli. Dyma enghraifft ymarferol arall eto o'r hyn y gallai'r pwerau hynny ei wneud i ni. Dylem fod yn cynnig cymorth i bobl sy'n cael eu gorfodi i fyw ar y strydoedd. Ni ddylem ni eu galw'n droseddwyr. Mae'n bryd i chi fel Llywodraeth ddweud, digon yw digon, a byddwn yn ddiolchgar petaech yn barod i ganiatáu dadl, yn amser y Llywodraeth, a fyddai'n ffafrio datganoli pwerau cyfiawnder troseddol gyda'r bwriad o ddiddymu'r Ddeddf Crwydradaeth.

Thank you for raising the issue and for giving me the opportunity to also share your admiration for the work that the volunteers do in Swansea, day in, day out, to support people who are rough sleepers. The Minister for Housing and Local Government has recently set up her new taskforce to explore support for homeless people, but particularly those on the very sharp end of homelessness, and it of course is being led by the head of Crisis, which I'm sure you would welcome, and she will ask the task group to look specifically at this. But the Welsh Government have been very clear in our opposition to the Vagrancy Act, which is completely outdated. It's completely inappropriate to criminalise people for what is often a case of finding themselves in situations that we can't even imagine having to deal with ourselves. So, I know that the Minister is also liaising very closely with the police and crime commissioners to ensure that they deal appropriately and in a trauma-informed way with people who find themselves in the situation of rough sleeping.

Diolch ichi am godi'r mater ac am roi'r cyfle imi hefyd i rannu eich edmygedd o'r gwaith y mae'r gwirfoddolwyr yn ei wneud yn Abertawe, ddydd ar ôl dydd, i gefnogi pobl sy'n cysgu allan. Yn ddiweddar, sefydlodd y Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol ei thasglu newydd i archwilio'r cymorth i bobl ddigartref, yn enwedig y rhai sy'n dioddef fwyaf gyda digartrefedd, ac wrth gwrs fe'i harweinir gan bennaeth Crisis. Rwy'n siŵr y byddech yn croesawu hynny, a byddaf yn gofyn i'r grŵp gorchwyl edrych yn benodol ar hyn. Ond mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn glir iawn yn ein gwrthwynebiad i'r Ddeddf Crwydradaeth, sydd yn gwbl hen ffasiwn. Mae'n gwbl amhriodol i droi pobl yn droseddwyr am yr hyn sy'n aml yn fater o gael eu hunain mewn sefyllfaoedd na allwn ni hyd yn oed ddychmygu gorfod delio â hwy. Felly, gwn fod y Gweinidog hefyd yn cydweithio'n agos iawn â chomisiynwyr yr heddlu a throseddu i sicrhau eu bod yn ymdrin yn briodol ac mewn ffordd sy'n seiliedig ar drawma â phobl sy'n eu cael eu hunain mewn sefyllfa o gysgu allan.

Organiser, could I seek a statement, please, off the health Minister, in light of yesterday's inspectorate report into the accident and emergency department at the Heath hospital? This isn't a politician saying this; this is obviously the inspectorate themselves in their report identifying how patients were moved from beds into chairs so that the health board could be compliant with health waiting targets. The First Minister himself in First Minister's questions said that the Government will not stand back from helping health boards discharge these targets. He said these targets are of clear clinical benefit and that's why they're in place. I'm sure most patients who got moved out of beds and into chairs and having 20-hour waits don't see that as a clinical benefit, to be honest with you. We've learnt today, from my namesake Andrew Davies who is the chair of Swansea health board, that there are three to four calls a day going into health boards. I find it incomprehensible to think that Welsh Government were not aware of this situation in the assessment unit and the emergency department, if such a level of interaction was going on on waiting times. That's why I do believe it is critical that the health Minister does make a statement—hopefully an oral statement—so that we can seek answers to some of the questions. I represent a region that has only just had the tragedy of the maternity services in Cwm Taf, where senior management professed they were unaware of what was going on in that maternity department. Here, you have the health inspectorate itself identifying deliberate acts to try and become compliant with waiting times that I would suggest, and I'm sure most clinicians would suggest, put patients' outcomes at risk, and that cannot be tolerated. It cannot be good enough that, maybe in six or 12 months' time, we turn round because action wasn't taken to address this and find out who was making these decisions, because it wouldn't be the hard-pressed staff in those departments, because we know the inspectorate have highlighted how staff rotas were going unfilled, despite Welsh Government having legislation in place that says staff rotas should be filled to a certain minimum level. The law dictates that, and yet the inspectorate have highlighted that in their report, and so I think the seriousness of this report warrants at least an oral statement from the Minister on the floor of Plenary so that we can ask the questions that, not unreasonably, our constituents and people who work in these departments are asking us. 

Trefnydd, a gaf i ofyn am ddatganiad gan y Gweinidog Iechyd, os gwelwch yn dda, yng ngoleuni adroddiad yr arolygiaeth ddoe ar yr adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys yn ysbyty'r Mynydd Bychan? Nid gwleidydd sy'n dweud hyn; mae'n amlwg mai'r Arolygiaeth ei hun sy'n nodi yn eu hadroddiad sut y cafodd cleifion eu symud o welyau i gadeiriau er mwyn i'r Bwrdd Iechyd allu cydymffurfio â thargedau aros iechyd. Dywedodd y Prif Weinidog ei hun yn y cwestiynau i'r Prif Weinidog na fydd y Llywodraeth yn ymatal rhag helpu byrddau iechyd i gyflawni'r targedau hyn. Dywedodd fod y targedau hyn o fudd clinigol amlwg a dyna pam eu bod yn bodoli. Rwy'n siŵr nad yw'r rhan fwyaf o'r cleifion a gafodd eu symud o welyau i gadeiriau ac yna aros am 20 awr yn gweld hynny fel budd clinigol, a bod yn onest gyda chi. Rydym wedi dysgu heddiw, gan un o'r un enw â mi, Andrew Davies, sef Cadeirydd Bwrdd Iechyd Abertawe, bod tri neu bedwar o alwadau'r dydd yn mynd i fyrddau iechyd. Yn fy marn i, mae'n annealladwy i feddwl nad oedd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymwybodol o'r sefyllfa hon yn yr uned asesu ac yn yr adran achosion brys, os oedd y lefel honno o ryngweithio'n digwydd ar amseroedd aros. Dyna pam rwy'n credu ei bod yn dyngedfennol fod y Gweinidog Iechyd yn gwneud datganiad—datganiad llafar gobeithio—er mwyn inni gael atebion i rai o'r cwestiynau. Rwy'n cynrychioli rhanbarth sydd ond newydd gael trychineb y gwasanaethau mamolaeth yng Nghwm Taf, lle yr oedd uwch reolwyr yn honni nad oeddent yn ymwybodol o'r hyn a oedd yn digwydd yn yr adran famolaeth honno. Yma, mae'r Arolygiaeth Iechyd wedi nodi gweithredoedd bwriadol i geisio cydymffurfio â'r amseroedd aros y byddwn yn eu hawgrymu, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddai'r rhan fwyaf o glinigwyr yn awgrymu bod hyn yn peryglu canlyniadau cleifion, ac ni ellir goddef hynny. Ni all fod yn ddigon da i ni, ymhen chwech neu ddeuddeng mis o bosibl, ymateb am na chymerwyd camau i ymdrin â hyn a chanfod pwy oedd yn gwneud y penderfyniadau hyn. Yn sicr, nid y staff a oedd dan bwysau yn yr adrannau hynny, gan ein bod yn gwybod fod yr Arolygaeth wedi amlygu'r ffaith nad oedd rotâu staff yn cael eu llenwi, er bod gan Lywodraeth Cymru ddeddfwriaeth ar waith sy'n dweud y dylid llenwi rotâu staff i lefel ofynnol benodol. Mae'r gyfraith yn mynnu hynny, ac eto mae'r Arolygiaeth wedi amlygu hynny yn ei hadroddiad, ac felly credaf fod difrifoldeb yr adroddiad hwn yn cyfiawnhau o leiaf ddatganiad llafar gan y Gweinidog mewn cyfarfod llawn fel y gallwn ofyn y cwestiynau hynny y mae ein hetholwyr a phobl sy'n gweithio yn yr adrannau hyn, nid yn afresymol, yn eu gofyn i ni.  


Well, the health Minister has obviously been here to hear your request, and I've certainly read the report to which you refer. I know the health Minister will also have done so. We were disappointed to read it, and we would expect of course that all patients who access care in an assessment unit to be treated in a timely way in order to optimise their experience and outcomes. But it should be noted, I think, that, also in the report, the majority of patients questioned did praise staff for being kind and sensitive, and I think it's important that we recognise the good work of staff, too.

We've allocated funding recently to Cardiff and the Vale health board specifically to support improvement in experience and delivery at the front door, and this includes an extension of the successful emergency department well-being and home safe service, and to enable the health board to become an early adopter of the national quality and delivery framework for emergency departments project. Both of those projects seek to improve the experience and outcomes for people accessing emergency care services. We know that HIW has now accepted the health board's plan for improvement and will obviously be monitoring the progress closely. 

Wel, mae'n amlwg bod y Gweinidog Iechyd wedi bod yma i glywed eich cais, ac rwyf yn sicr wedi darllen yr adroddiad y cyfeiriwch ato. Gwn y bydd y Gweinidog Iechyd wedi gwneud hynny hefyd. Roeddem yn siomedig i'w ddarllen, a byddem yn disgwyl wrth gwrs bod pob claf sy'n cael gofal mewn uned asesu yn cael ei drin mewn modd amserol er mwyn gwneud y gorau o'u profiad a'u canlyniadau. Ond dylid nodi hefyd, yn yr adroddiad, fod mwyafrif y cleifion a holwyd wedi canmol y staff am fod yn garedig ac yn sensitif, ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig ein bod ni'n cydnabod gwaith da'r staff hefyd.

Rydym wedi dyrannu arian yn ddiweddar i Fwrdd Iechyd Caerdydd a'r Fro yn benodol i gefnogi gwelliannau o ran profiad a'r ddarpariaeth gyntaf, ac mae hyn yn cynnwys estyniad i'r gwasanaeth lles yn yr adran frys a gwasanaeth diogel yn y cartref llwyddiannus, ac i alluogi'r Bwrdd Iechyd i fod yn fabwysiadydd cynnar o'r fframwaith ansawdd a chyflawni cenedlaethol ar gyfer y prosiect adrannau achosion brys. Mae'r ddau brosiect hyn yn ceisio gwella'r profiad a'r canlyniadau i bobl sy'n defnyddio gwasanaethau gofal brys. Gwyddom fod AGIC bellach wedi derbyn cynllun gwella'r Bwrdd Iechyd ac mae'n amlwg y bydd yn monitro'r cynnydd yn ofalus.

I've asked on about three or four occasions now for an update on the eating disorders framework. I'm glad the health Minister is here, because I had the cross-party group on eating disorders last week, and some of the sufferers even said they felt that they saw no point in taking part in the consultation process because it's been eight months now waiting for an idea as to what is going to happen. Everybody took part in that consultation in good faith, wanting to help change the eating disorders situation here in Wales, so I'm urging the health Minister to bring a statement forward so that we can look at the framework anew and see how services will be improved with that regeneration of a framework. At the end of the day, we have improved services here, but we have some place to go, and those on the cross-party group, from sufferers to carers to charities, want to hear that there's action on the table now. 

Rwyf wedi gofyn ar dri neu bedwar achlysur erbyn hyn am ddiweddariad ar y fframwaith anhwylderau bwyta. Rwy'n falch bod y Gweinidog Iechyd yma, oherwydd cynhaliwyd y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar anhwylderau bwyta'r wythnos diwethaf, a dywedodd rhai o'r dioddefwyr eu bod yn teimlo nad oedden nhw'n gweld unrhyw ddiben mewn cymryd rhan yn y broses ymgynghori gan eu bod wedi bod yn aros am wyth mis bellach am syniad o'r hyn sy'n mynd i ddigwydd. Cymerodd pawb ran yn yr ymgynghoriad hwnnw gyda phob ewyllys da am eu bod eisiau helpu i newid y sefyllfa o ran anhwylderau bwyta yma yng Nghymru. Felly, rwyf yn annog y Gweinidog Iechyd i gyflwyno datganiad fel y gallwn edrych ar y fframwaith o'r newydd a gweld sut y caiff gwasanaethau eu gwella gydag adfywiad o'r fframwaith. Yn y pen draw, rydym wedi gwella gwasanaethau yma, ond mae lle i wella eto, ac mae'r rhai ar y grŵp trawsbleidiol, yn ddioddefwyr, yn ofalwyr ac elusennau, am glywed bod gweithredu ar y gweill yn awr.

Thank you for raising this issue. The health Minister, I know, is due to discuss this issue with officials this week. I understand it is a large report and a great deal of evidence has gone into it, and it obviously requires thorough consideration, but as soon as the health Minister's had advice, which I understand will be in the coming weeks, then he will provide the update that you're seeking. 

Diolch ichi am godi'r mater hwn. Mae'r Gweinidog Iechyd, mi wn, i fod i drafod y mater hwn gyda swyddogion yr wythnos hon. Rwy'n deall ei fod yn adroddiad mawr ac mae llawer o dystiolaeth wedi ei gynnwys ynddo, ac mae'n amlwg bod angen ei ystyried yn drylwyr, ond cyn gynted ag y bydd y Gweinidog Iechyd wedi derbyn cyngor, a deallaf y bydd hynny'n ystod yr wythnosau nesaf, bydd yn rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ichi.

Trefnydd, I'd like to ask the Minister for Health and Social Services—I'm pleased to see he's here today—to consider making perhaps a written statement about the situation with regard to the midwifery-led unit at Withybush General Hospital. You'll be aware, and he'll be aware, that there is concern that we're going to face a situation where, if women need services at night, they're going to be expected to phone the community midwife to arrange themselves for that midwife to be present. Now, in responding to Paul Davies, the First Minister gave this Chamber some assurance that that is not, in fact, the case. But the Minister will be very well aware of the concerns that this would happen when the service went from a consultant-led service to a midwifery-led service, because it has happened elsewhere. So, could I ask the Minister to make a statement, if he's able to do so, reassuring the public in the area that this is not going to happen, that they're not going to lose their 24-hour service, and outlining what discussions he or his officials have had with the health board to ensure that the First Minister is correct and that this service is not going to be further reduced. 

Trefnydd, hoffwn ofyn i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol—rwyf yn falch o weld ei fod yma heddiw—i ystyried gwneud datganiad ysgrifenedig efallai am y sefyllfa o ran yr uned a arweinir gan fydwragedd yn Ysbyty Cyffredinol Llwynhelyg. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol, ac fe fydd ef yn ymwybodol, bod pryder ein bod yn mynd i wynebu sefyllfa lle byddai disgwyl i fenywod petai nhw angen gwasanaethau yn ystod y nos, ffonio'r fydwraig gymunedol a threfnu drostynt eu hunain i'r fydwraig honno fod yn bresennol. Nawr, wrth ymateb i Paul Davies, rhoddodd y Prif Weinidog rywfaint o sicrwydd i'r Siambr hon nad yw hynny, mewn gwirionedd, yn wir. Ond bydd y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol iawn o'r pryderon y byddai hyn yn digwydd pan fyddai'r gwasanaeth yn mynd o wasanaeth dan arweiniad ymgynghorydd i wasanaeth sy'n cael ei arwain gan fydwragedd, oherwydd ei fod wedi digwydd mewn mannau eraill. Felly, a gaf i ofyn i'r Gweinidog wneud datganiad, os yw'n gallu gwneud hynny, i dawelu meddyliau'r cyhoedd yn yr ardal nad yw hyn yn mynd i ddigwydd, nad ydynt yn mynd i golli eu gwasanaeth 24 awr, ac amlinellu pa drafodaethau y mae ef neu ei swyddogion wedi'u cael gyda'r bwrdd iechyd i sicrhau bod y Prif Weinidog yn gywir ac nad yw'r gwasanaeth hwn yn mynd i gael ei leihau ymhellach.

As the First Minister was able to say in his question session this afternoon, there have been discussions on the options to improve the efficiency of the staffing model by achieving a greater integration of its community-based midwives and staff based in the midwife-led unit. But he was very clear that this will not reduce patient access, which will remain open to women in Pembrokeshire 24/7.

I understand that discussions are ongoing with staff about how to better integrate MLU and community midwifery staff, and the health board can't confirm its future staffing arrangements yet because, clearly, no decisions have been made. But it has, however, assured all pregnant mums-to-be that staffing support will continue to be available on a 24/7 basis, and its priority remains the safe care and overall experience of those women.

Fel y dywedodd y Prif Weinidog yn ei sesiwn gwestiynau'r prynhawn yma, bu trafodaethau ar y dewisiadau i wella effeithlonrwydd y model staffio drwy sicrhau mwy o integreiddio rhwng y bydwragedd a'r staff yn y gymuned sydd wedi'u lleoli yn yr uned dan arweiniad bydwragedd. Ond roedd yn glir iawn na fydd hyn yn lleihau'r gwasanaeth i gleifion, a fydd yn parhau'n agored i fenywod yn Sir Benfro bedair awr ar hugain y dydd, bob dydd o'r wythnos.

Rwy'n deall bod trafodaethau ar y gweill gyda'r staff ynglŷn â sut i integreiddio'r Uned dan Reolaeth Bydwragedd a staff bydwragedd cymunedol yn well, ac ni all y Bwrdd Iechyd gadarnhau ei drefniadau staffio ar gyfer y dyfodol eto oherwydd, yn amlwg, nid oes unrhyw benderfyniadau wedi'u gwneud. Ond mae wedi sicrhau pob darpar fam feichiog, fodd bynnag, y bydd y cymorth staffio yn parhau i fod ar gael bedair awr ar hugain y dydd, bob dydd o'r wythnos, a'r flaenoriaeth o hyd yw gofal diogel a phrofiad cyffredinol y menywod hynny.


Diolch, Llywydd. Dwi wedi edrych ar y datganiad busnes ŷch chi wedi'i gyhoeddi heddiw, a dwi ddim yn gweld unrhyw fwriad gan y Llywodraeth i ni gael datganiad llafar gan y Gweinidog amgylchedd a materion gwledig ar fwriad y Llywodraeth yma nawr i symud ymlaen gyda chynlluniau 'Brexit a'n tir'. Byddwch chi'n gwybod cystal â fi mai dyma fydd un o'r cyhoeddiadau mwyaf arwyddocaol y bydd y Llywodraeth yma'n ei wneud. Yn sicr, bydd yn arwain at rai o'r newidiadau mwyaf pellgyrhaeddol y mae'r sector amaeth a chymunedau gwledig wedi'u gweld mewn cenedlaethau, a liciwn i ddeall pam nad ŷch chi'n teimlo bod datganiad llafar i'r Siambr yma yn angenrheidiol, oherwydd mae'r Gweinidog wedi'i gwneud hi'n gwbl glir y bydd e'n cael ei ddatgan cyn y sioe frenhinol amaethyddol ymhen ychydig wythnosau. Ydw i'n iawn i feddwl mai bwriad y Llywodraeth, felly, yw rhyddhau hwn ar ffurf datganiad ysgrifenedig? A byddai ambell sinig yn awgrymu efallai y byddwch chi'n gwneud hynny yn nyddiau ola'r tymor er mwyn osgoi'r craffu a fyddai'n dod o'i wneud e'n gynt. Allwch chi roi sicrwydd i ni ei bod hi'n fwriad i ni gael datganiad llafar fan hyn, oherwydd dyna y mae datganiad mor arwyddocaol â hyn yn ei haeddu?

Thank you, Llywydd. I’ve looked at the business statement that you’ve published today, and I don’t see any intention on the part of Government for us to have an oral statement from the Minister for environment and rural affairs on the Government’s intention now to proceed with ‘Brexit and our land’ proposals. You will know as well as I do that this will be one of the most significant announcements that this Government will make. It will certainly lead to some of the most far-reaching changes that the agricultural sector and rural communities have seen in generations, and I would like to understand why you don’t feel that an oral statement to this Chamber is necessary, because the Minister has made it entirely clear that it will be declared before the Royal Welsh Show in a few weeks’ time. Am I right in thinking that it is the Government’s intention to release this as a written statement? Some cynics might suggest that you would do that in the last days of term in order to avoid the scrutiny that could take place as a result of doing it earlier. So, can you give us an assurance that it is the intention to have an oral statement in this place, because that is what such a significant statement deserves?

I will, Llywydd, speak to the environment Minister, in terms of the plans for releasing the ‘Brexit and our land’ consultation.

Fe wnaf i, Llywydd, siarad â Gweinidog yr Amgylchedd, o ran y cynlluniau ar gyfer rhyddhau'r ymgynghoriad 'Brexit â'n tir'.

3. Datganiad gan y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol: Y Grŵp Gorchwyl a Gorffen ar Ofal Critigol—Adroddiad
3. Statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services: The Task and Finish Group on Critical Care—Report

Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r datganiad gan y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ar grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ar ofal critigol, a dwi'n galw ar y Gweinidog i wneud ei ddatganiad—Vaughan Gething.

The next item, therefore, is the statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services on the task and finish group on critical care, and I call on the Minister to make the statement—Vaughan Gething.

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) i’r Gadair.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Diolch, Llywydd. Members will recall that, in 2016, we created a parliamentary review of independent experts to examine health and social care in Wales, and that review, of course, had cross-party support. The report of the parliamentary review described the increasing demands and new challenges that face health and social care in Wales. These include greater care needs as more of us can expect to grow older, and increasing public expectations of new and emerging medical advances. These challenges have been acutely felt by critical care services in recent years. It is clear that there is a significant strain within critical care services, and this has been increasing in recent years. Despite this, people who require critical illness support continue to receive high standards of critical care, thanks to the dedication of the many expert members of staff who are working in what is a highly pressurised environment.

As set out in 'A Healthier Wales', hospital-based services such as critical care remain an essential and visible part of our future health and care system. As with other healthcare systems, we need to speed up the pace of change within critical care, including the model of provision across Wales, to ensure that we have the right services in the right place for those who are critically ill. That is why, in July last year, I issued a written statement announcing a nationally directed programme to look strategically at the issues and challenges for our critical care services. In that statement, I said that our approach to critical care will build on the work already being taken forward with the implementation of the delivery plan for the critically ill. We are now taking a more central hand in directing this work at a national level. I established a task and finish group, which was chaired by Professor Chris Jones, the deputy chief medical officer. It comprised seven work streams looking at: the mapping of service models, demand and capacity; workforce requirements; outreach; post-anaesthesia care units; long-term ventilation; patient transfers; and performance measures.

Following the recommendations of these work streams, immediate progress has been made. This includes: critical care becoming a strand within the 'Train. Work. Live.' recruitment campaign; highlighting the existing opportunities to work in critical care in Wales; and critical care activity now being included within the unscheduled care performance dashboard. This helps health boards to manage their services more effectively.

I am pleased today to publish the task and finish group's final report. The report is honest about the challenges facing critical care, and provides a strategic view on the steps necessary to ensure services for people who are critically ill are fit for the future. In addition to the main report, the reports from each work stream have been published as annexes, setting out more detailed recommendations. The report concludes that, unless admission and referral practices change, which the group felt there was little scope for, the increased future demand can only be met by an increase in total critical care capacity. The task and finish group are clear that Wales does need additional capacity. However, this must be in combination with improvements in critical care pathways, such as post-anaesthesia care units, otherwise known in the service as PACUs, long-term ventilation, critical care outreach teams, and improved efficiencies, including reducing delayed transfers from critical care and utilising the skill mix of our staff more effectively.

We do need to address existing workforce issues of skill mix, recruitment, retention and training, as well as increasing the numbers of appropriately skilled healthcare professionals to meet both current and future need. The task and finish group acknowledges the national programme is ambitious but, if fully implemented, will help to ensure that Wales has a critical care service on a par with the best in the UK. Critical care staff throughout Wales work in a highly pressurised environment, and the lack of capacity across the system has exacerbated this. The task and finish group hopes that both staff and patients will see this as a clear commitment, backed up by robust recommendations and additional funding to help deliver a phased improvement programme.

To help implement the task and finish group's report, I have already announced that an additional £15 million of recurrent funding will be provided. The funding will be used to support a number of national priorities. such as the establishment of a transfer service for critically ill adults and a long-term ventilation unit. Local priorities, including increasing critical care capacity, workforce, outreach and the establishment of post-anaesthesia care units, are also being supported.

We need to be clear that this additional funding must have a significant positive impact on the service and that our systems improve as a consequence of the investment and service redesign. To support this, a new set of performance measures linked to the investment will be implemented and we will track performance on delayed transfers of care. This nationally directed work has important links to other developing areas of specialist services. These include major trauma, treatment following an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest, and vascular surgery. It is important that this investment is seen in that wider context.

Finally, I want to end this statement by expressing my gratitude to the members of the task and finish group as well as the healthcare professionals and managers who are working, and working together, to bring real and meaningful transformation to our critical care services.

Diolch, Llywydd. Bydd yr Aelodau'n cofio ein bod ni, yn 2016, wedi creu adolygiad seneddol o arbenigwyr annibynnol i archwilio iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru, ac fe gafodd yr adolygiad hwnnw, wrth gwrs, gefnogaeth drawsbleidiol. Mae adroddiad yr arolwg seneddol yn disgrifio'r galwadau cynyddol a'r heriau newydd y mae iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru yn eu hwynebu. Mae'r rhain yn cynnwys mwy o anghenion gofal gan y gall mwy ohonom ni ddisgwyl byw yn hŷn, a'r cynnydd yn nisgwyliadau'r cyhoedd o ran datblygiadau meddygol newydd a rhai sy'n datblygu. Mae'r gwasanaethau gofal critigol wedi teimlo'r heriau hyn yn fawr iawn yn y blynyddoedd diweddar. Mae'n amlwg bod straen sylweddol o fewn gwasanaethau gofal critigol, ac mae hyn wedi bod yn cynyddu yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Er gwaethaf hyn, mae pobl â salwch difrifol sydd angen cymorth yn parhau i gael gofal critigol o safon uchel, diolch i ymroddiad y llu o aelodau arbenigol o staff sy'n gweithio mewn amgylchiadau lle mae pwysau mawr.

Fel y nodir yn 'Cymru Iachach', mae gwasanaethau mewn ysbytai megis gofal critigol yn parhau i fod yn rhan hanfodol a gweladwy o'n system iechyd a gofal yn y dyfodol. Fel gyda systemau gofal iechyd eraill, mae angen inni gyflymu'r broses o newid ym maes gofal critigol, gan gynnwys y model darparu ledled Cymru, er mwyn sicrhau bod gennym ni'r gwasanaethau priodol yn y man priodol ar gyfer y rhai sy'n ddifrifol wael. Dyna pam, ym mis Gorffennaf y llynedd, y cyhoeddais ddatganiad ysgrifenedig yn cyhoeddi rhaglen genedlaethol i edrych yn strategol ar y materion a'r heriau ar gyfer ein gwasanaethau gofal critigol. Yn y datganiad hwnnw, dywedais y bydd ein hymagwedd at ofal critigol yn adeiladu ar y gwaith sydd eisoes yn cael ei wneud gyda gweithredu'r cynllun cyflawni ar gyfer y rhai sy'n ddifrifol wael. Erbyn hyn, rydym ni'n cymryd mwy o ran ganolog yn y gwaith o gyfarwyddo hyn yn genedlaethol. Sefydlais grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen, dan gadeiryddiaeth yr Athro Chris Jones, y dirprwy brif swyddog meddygol. Roedd yn cynnwys saith ffrwd waith a oedd yn edrych ar: mapio modelau gwasanaeth, y galw a'r capasiti; gofynion y gweithlu; allgymorth; unedau gofal ôl-anesthesia; cymorth anadlu tymor hir; trosglwyddo cleifion; a mesurau perfformiad.

Yn dilyn argymhellion y ffrydiau gwaith hyn, gwnaed cynnydd ar unwaith. Mae hyn yn cynnwys: gofal critigol yn dod yn elfen o'r ymgyrch recriwtio 'Hyfforddi, Gweithio, Byw'; tynnu sylw at y cyfleoedd presennol i weithio ym maes gofal critigol yng Nghymru; a chynnwys gweithgarwch gofal critigol yn y dangosfwrdd perfformiad gofal heb ei drefnu o hyn ymlaen. Mae hyn yn helpu byrddau iechyd i reoli eu gwasanaethau yn fwy effeithiol.

Rwy'n falch heddiw o gyhoeddi adroddiad terfynol y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen. Mae'r adroddiad yn onest am yr heriau y mae gofal critigol yn eu hwynebu, ac mae'n cynnig golwg strategol ar yr hyn sydd angen ei wneud i sicrhau bod gwasanaethau i bobl sy'n ddifrifol wael yn addas ar gyfer y dyfodol. Yn ogystal â'r prif adroddiad, mae'r adroddiadau gan bob ffrwd waith wedi'u cyhoeddi ar ffurf atodiadau, sy'n nodi argymhellion manylach. Mae'r adroddiad yn dod i'r casgliad, os na fydd arferion derbyn ac atgyfeirio yn newid, sef rhywbeth yr oedd y grŵp yn teimlo nad oedd fawr o gyfle ar ei gyfer, dim ond drwy gynyddu cyfanswm y capasiti gofal critigol y gellir diwallu'r galw cynyddol yn y dyfodol. Mae'r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen yn glir bod angen capasiti ychwanegol ar Gymru. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i hyn fod ar y cyd â gwelliannau mewn llwybrau gofal critigol, megis unedau gofal ôl-anesthesia, sy'n cael eu hadnabod yn y gwasanaeth fel PACUs, cymorth anadlu hirdymor, timau allgymorth gofal critigol, a gwell effeithlonrwydd, gan gynnwys lleihau oedi wrth drosglwyddo o ofal critigol a defnyddio cyfuniad sgiliau ein staff yn fwy effeithiol.

Mae angen i ni fynd i'r afael â materion presennol sy'n ymwneud â'r gweithlu, sef cyfuniad sgiliau, recriwtio, cadw a hyfforddi, yn ogystal â chynyddu nifer y gweithwyr gofal iechyd proffesiynol sydd â'r sgiliau priodol i ddiwallu anghenion presennol a'r angen yn y dyfodol. Mae'r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen yn cydnabod bod y rhaglen genedlaethol yn uchelgeisiol ond, os caiff ei gweithredu'n llawn, bydd yn helpu i sicrhau bod gan Gymru wasanaeth gofal critigol sydd gyda'r gorau yn y DU. Mae staff gofal critigol ledled Cymru yn gweithio mewn amgylchiadau lle mae pwysau mawr, ac mae'r diffyg capasiti drwy'r system wedi gwaethygu hyn. Mae'r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen yn gobeithio y bydd staff a chleifion yn gweld hyn fel ymrwymiad clir, wedi'i ategu gan argymhellion cadarn ac arian ychwanegol i helpu i gyflwyno rhaglen wella fesul cam.

Er mwyn helpu i roi adroddiad y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ar waith, rwyf eisoes wedi cyhoeddi y bydd £15 miliwn ychwanegol o gyllid rheolaidd yn cael ei ddarparu. Bydd y cyllid yn cael ei ddefnyddio i gefnogi nifer o flaenoriaethau cenedlaethol, megis sefydlu gwasanaeth trosglwyddo ar gyfer oedolion sy'n ddifrifol wael ac uned cymorth anadlu hirdymor. Mae blaenoriaethau lleol, gan gynnwys cynyddu capasiti gofal critigol, y gweithlu, allgymorth a sefydlu unedau gofal ôl-anesthesia, hefyd yn cael eu cefnogi.

Mae angen i ni fod yn glir bod yn rhaid i'r arian ychwanegol hwn gael effaith gadarnhaol sylweddol ar y gwasanaeth a bod ein systemau yn gwella o ganlyniad i'r buddsoddiad a'r ailgynllunio gwasanaethau. I gefnogi hyn, caiff cyfres newydd o fesurau perfformiad sy'n gysylltiedig â'r buddsoddiad eu gweithredu a byddwn yn olrhain perfformiad o ran achosion o oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal. Mae gan y gwaith hwn, a gyfarwyddir yn genedlaethol, gysylltiadau pwysig â meysydd datblygol eraill o wasanaethau arbenigol. Mae'r rhain yn cynnwys trawma sylweddol, triniaeth yn dilyn ataliad y galon y tu allan i'r ysbyty, a llawdriniaeth fasgwlaidd. Mae'n bwysig bod y buddsoddiad hwn yn cael ei weld yn y cyd-destun ehangach hwnnw.

Yn olaf, hoffwn ddod â'r datganiad hwn i ben drwy ddiolch i aelodau'r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen yn ogystal â'r gweithwyr a'r rheolwyr gofal iechyd sy'n gweithio, ac yn cydweithio gyda'i gilydd, i drawsnewid ein gwasanaethau gofal critigol mewn ffordd real ac ystyrlon.


Minister, thank you very much for bringing forward your statement on this report. I think this report is very good. I was really pleased to see that it's clear, it's concise, it's got a very well defined set of objectives, and it actually talks about how we can monitor it and measure the outcomes. It is a rare jewel, and I'm delighted to be able to ask you a few questions on this. 

It talks about the fact that we have the lowest number of critical care beds per head of population in relation to most other areas, and I wondered if you could perhaps outline how you see the development of those additional critical care beds and how will you ring-fence them so they don't become post-operative anaeth—. I can't say the word; I'll just call them PACU beds. Because I notice that it's quite clear about how many beds should go to what area, which health board, but, again, it's about making sure it actually happens. If I was to read this whole report, very simply I would say, 'Great report, really good analysis, but how will we make sure it actually gets delivered, when we know the health boards are under immense pressure and when we know that targets and objectives are shifted around, are moved about, and that statistics can say pretty much anything?' Because, if this could be made to happen, it would be an enormous step forward. 

I note that the task and finish group have suggested that, once this comes to being and it moves forward, they should step down and that it should be left to the critical illness implementation group to measure. But, of course, one of the great criticisms of the critical illness implementation group in 2016 was the fact that they were struggling to offer sustainable solutions, and that they hadn't brought into the whole system the organisational commitment that's required. So, I'd like to know what you will do to ensure that the make-up of the critical illness implementation group is capable of monitoring this ongoing work, because I think it's just telling that we've had to have a task and finish group to tell them what they should do, when, to be frank, they should have been able to come up with this under their own steam. 

Will you please just give us a quick overview of where you see the money sitting, because it says very clearly here that funding will be allocated to health boards in their capacity as commissioners, and yet they need to then immediately go and use that money to start building these additional beds, to start putting together the adult emergency transfer system that they're talking about? How will they apply for that, and who will make the decision whether or not their business plan is actually fit enough to be awarded the money to carry on and try and achieve these objectives?

Is there going to be an element of ring-fencing around it? Transparent reporting of critical care outcome measures with robust escalation arrangements: will you, as the health Minister, also be keeping a weather eye on this, or will you be pushing this out to the critical care implementation group to monitor? Because I'd like to think that, actually, this report doesn't just disappear into the ether, but actually you keep, or the Government keeps, tabs on it to make sure that these things happen. My overwhelming fear is that a lot of these really, really excellent recommendations simply will not happen because either the funding isn't in the right place, the skills aren't in the right place, the right people who know how to make change happen, and make change happen successfully, will not be able to carry this out, particularly at a time when we're asking health boards to try to transform the entire way they operate, to follow through on the vision for health, which I think is a particularly good way forward.

I think my final question will be about how the remaining funding is split between Aneurin Bevan, Betsi, Cwm Taf, Hywel Dda and Swansea Bay. It talks about areas of agreed priority for critical care services, and, again, who will have the final say on what those agreed priorities are and whether or not the business case then stacks up. 

Gweinidog, diolch yn fawr iawn i chi am gyflwyno eich datganiad ar yr adroddiad hwn. Rwy'n credu bod yr adroddiad hwn yn dda iawn. Roeddwn i'n falch iawn o weld ei fod yn glir, ei fod yn gryno, fod ganddo gyfres o amcanion sydd wedi'u diffinio'n dda, a'i fod yn sôn mewn gwirionedd am y ffordd y gallwn ni ei fonitro a mesur y canlyniadau. Mae'n berl prin, ac rwy'n falch iawn o allu gofyn ychydig o gwestiynau i chi am hyn. 

Mae'n sôn am y ffaith mai gennym ni y mae'r lleiaf o welyau gofal critigol fesul pen o'r boblogaeth o'i gymharu â'r rhan fwyaf o ardaloedd eraill, ac roeddwn i'n meddwl tybed a allech chi efallai amlinellu sut yr ydych chi'n gweld y gwelyau gofal critigol ychwanegol hyn yn cael eu datblygu a sut y byddwch chi'n eu clustnodi fel nad ydyn nhw'n dod yn welyau ôl-driniaeth aneth—. Ni fedraf ddweud y gair; fe wnaf i eu galw nhw'n welyau PACU. Oherwydd rwy'n sylwi ei bod yn eithaf clir ynghylch nifer y gwelyau a ddylai fynd i ba ardal, pa fwrdd iechyd, ond unwaith eto, mae'n golygu sicrhau bod hynny'n digwydd mewn gwirionedd. Pe byddwn i'n darllen yr adroddiad cyfan hwn, yn syml iawn, byddwn yn dweud, 'Adroddiad gwych, dadansoddiad gwirioneddol dda, ond sut ydym ni'n sicrhau ei fod yn cael ei gyflawni mewn gwirionedd, a ninnau'n gwybod bod y byrddau iechyd o dan bwysau aruthrol a phan ein bod yn gwybod bod targedau ac amcanion yn cael eu haddasu, eu newid, ac y gall ystadegau ddweud bron iawn unrhyw beth? Oherwydd, pe gellid cyflawni hyn, byddai'n gam enfawr ymlaen.  

Sylwaf fod y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen wedi awgrymu, ar ôl i hyn ddod i fodolaeth a'i fod yn symud ymlaen, y dylen nhw gamu'n ôl ac y dylid ei adael i'r grŵp gweithredu ar gyfer y rhai sy'n ddifrifol wael ei fesur. Ond, wrth gwrs, un o feirniadaethau mawr y grŵp gweithredu ar gyfer y rhai sy'n ddifrifol wael yn 2016 oedd y ffaith eu bod nhw'n ei chael hi'n anodd cynnig atebion cynaliadwy, ac nad oedd yr ymrwymiad sefydliadol a oedd ei angen ar y system gyfan yn bodoli. Felly, hoffwn wybod beth fyddwch chi'n ei wneud i sicrhau bod y grŵp gweithredu ar gyfer y rhai sy'n ddifrifol wael yn gallu monitro'r gwaith parhaus hwn, oherwydd credaf ei bod hi'n dweud cyfrolau ein bod ni wedi gorfod cael grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen i ddweud wrthyn nhw beth ddylen nhw ei wneud, pan, a bod yn blwmp ac yn blaen, y dylen nhw fod wedi gallu meddwl am hynny eu hunain.

A wnewch chi roi trosolwg cyflym inni o ble yr ydych chi'n gweld y bydd yr arian, gan ei fod yn dweud yn glir iawn yn y fan yma y dyrennir arian i fyrddau iechyd yn rhinwedd eu swyddi fel comisiynwyr, ac eto mae angen iddyn nhw fynd ati ar unwaith i ddefnyddio'r arian hwnnw i ddechrau cael y gwelyau ychwanegol hyn, i ddechrau llunio'r system trosglwyddo oedolion mewn argyfwng maen nhw'n sôn amdani? Sut byddan nhw'n gwneud cais am hynny, a phwy fydd yn penderfynu ar ba un a yw eu cynllun busnes yn ddigon addas ai peidio i gael yr arian i ddal ati a cheisio cyflawni'r amcanion hynny?

A fydd neilltuo arian yn elfen o hynny? O ran adrodd yn dryloyw ar fesurau canlyniadau gofal critigol gyda threfniadau cadarn ar gyfer uwchgyfeirio: a fyddwch chi, y Gweinidog Iechyd, hefyd yn cadw llygad ar hyn, neu a fyddwch chi'n rhoi hyn i'r grŵp gweithredu gofal critigol i'w fonitro? Oherwydd hoffwn i gredu na chaiff yr adroddiad hwn, mewn gwirionedd, ei anghofio, ond y byddwch chi mewn gwirionedd, neu y bydd y Llywodraeth, yn cadw golwg manwl arno i wneud yn siŵr bod y pethau hyn yn digwydd. Yr ofn mawr sydd gennyf yw na chaiff llawer o'r argymhellion hyn, sy'n wirioneddol ragorol, eu cyflawni yn syml oherwydd nad yw'r cyllid yn y lle priodol, nad yw'r sgiliau yn y lle priodol, na fydd y bobl briodol sy'n gwybod sut i newid pethau, a newid pethau yn llwyddiannus, yn gallu cyflawni hyn, yn enwedig ar adeg pan ein bod ni'n gofyn i fyrddau iechyd geisio gweddnewid y ffordd maen nhw'n gweithredu, er mwyn cyflawni'r weledigaeth ar gyfer iechyd, sy'n ffordd arbennig o dda ymlaen yn fy marn i.

Rwy'n credu y bydd fy nghwestiwn olaf yn ymwneud â sut mae'r cyllid sy'n weddill yn cael ei rannu rhwng Aneurin Bevan, Betsi, Cwm Taf, Hywel Dda a Bae Abertawe. Mae'n sôn am feysydd blaenoriaeth y cytunwyd arnyn nhw ar gyfer gwasanaethau gofal critigol, ac, unwaith eto, pwy fydd yn cael y gair olaf ynglŷn â beth yw'r blaenoriaethau cytunedig hynny a pha un a yw'r achos busnes yn dal dŵr wedyn.  


Thank you for the series of questions, some of which I think have overlapping themes. I would say I think there's a central point that you're making about whether the report will be delivered and whether the money will deliver against the objectives and how that will be tracked and monitored. Well, I've been clear that the suggested allocation of resource comes from the task and finish group and it's something that we've endorsed. The Wales critical care and trauma network will be involved in looking at the delivery plans from health boards, because it isn't simply a question of saying, 'Please go ahead and do this' to health boards. Actually, we'll need to see those delivery plans to deliver against the increases in capacity that the report has suggested we need to make. So, the money is there, but they need to have proper delivery plans for that to come in. And that will be overseen. The Wales critical care and trauma network will have a view on that as well, the Government will take a view, and it will be on the basis of those delivery plans that the money will actually be released to health boards to deliver against that increase in capacity. So, there is going to be a more central hand. I announced, when I issued a statement last year, that this would be a centrally directed programme of activity, and now we're still making sure that that will be the case. So, it won't disappear into the ether. It will be something where there will be performance measures and outcome measures to understand what's really happening. And, yes, I do expect that the Government will be informed on what is happening there and it won't simply be left to health boards to, if you like, mark their own homework.

And when it comes to the point about whether the money will really get to deliver against the objectives, well, I've been clear in the past, when we've had sums of money that have been earmarked for a particular purpose, that it does need to deliver against that purpose. If you take the example of the performance funds we've had in the last few years, where health boards haven't delivered against the plans they've provided, I've been prepared to claw that money back. So, I am clear that this money will be used for the purpose, and not disappear into a general pot of money. It must be used for the purpose. 

And some of the building of capacity is, of course, in staff, so the work around workforce is important not just to understand what we need know, but also in the future. The recruitment activities are already ongoing, the further advice from Healthcare Inspectorate Wales about the groups of staff we'll need, because, actually, the biggest limitation in increasing capacity isn't the bed itself—it's all the staff around it for the different tiers of service that are required—because at the highest level of care, we're talking about one-to-one nursing care and the rest of the team around that person as well. So, staff, actually, are what we do need to invest in in terms of training and upskilling, as well, of course, as the numbers of staff to deliver the additional capacity that the task and fish group recommend and I've accepted we want to try and create. 

When it comes to the point about transfers, though, that is something that will go into the emergency ambulance services committee mechanism, working together with—[Inaudible.]—to look at the experience that already exists there. So, you will have an oversight there about what's being commissioned, how it's going to be done, and, again, a specific sum of money to go into delivering that improvement, because if we improve the delayed transfers of care it won't simply be that I or the Deputy Minister will be able to stand up and say, 'Look, delayed transfers of care have improved', but, actually, have a much better and efficient use of our resources across the system. It means that people that no longer need to be in critical care can be moved down to where they need to be, and that will often be closer to home, especially if they move from one of our tertiary centres. But it will also mean that somebody that does need to have that place in critical care will be more likely to be rapidly in the right place, because we do recognise not having the flexibility, the efficiency and the capacity does mean that some people are not in the optimal place for their care. So, it's the whole system. The delayed transfers make a difference to the top level of care, but also to people moving through in the right direction, whether they're up or down in the system. So, I do think we have the right sort of recommendations so that it will now be about the delivery.

Diolch am y gyfres o gwestiynau, y credaf fod gan rai ohonyn nhw themâu sy'n gorgyffwrdd. Byddwn yn dweud fy mod yn meddwl bod yna bwynt canolog yr ydych chi'n ei wneud ynghylch a fydd yr adroddiad yn cael ei gyflwyno ac a fydd yr arian yn cyflawni'r amcanion a sut y bydd hynny'n cael ei olrhain a'i fonitro. Wel, rwyf wedi bod yn glir bod y dyraniad adnodd a awgrymir yn dod o'r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ac mae'n rhywbeth yr ydym ni wedi ei gefnogi. Bydd rhwydwaith gofal critigol a thrawma Cymru yn rhan o'r gwaith o edrych ar y cynlluniau cyflawni gan fyrddau iechyd, oherwydd nid yw'n fater syml o ddweud wrth fyrddau iechyd, 'ewch yn eich blaen a gwnewch hyn'. Mewn gwirionedd, bydd angen inni weld y cynlluniau cyflawni hynny er mwyn cyflawni'r cynnydd mewn capasiti y mae'r adroddiad wedi awgrymu y mae angen inni ei wneud. Felly, mae'r arian ar gael, ond mae angen iddyn nhw gael cynlluniau cyflawni priodol er mwyn elwa ar hynny. A bydd hynny'n cael ei oruchwylio. Bydd gan rwydwaith gofal critigol a thrawma Cymru farn am hynny hefyd, bydd safbwynt gan y Llywodraeth, ac ar sail y cynlluniau cyflawni hynny y bydd yr arian yn cael ei ryddhau i fyrddau iechyd i gyflawni'r cynnydd hwnnw mewn capasiti. Felly, bydd y broses yn un fwy canolog. Pan gyhoeddais ddatganiad y llynedd, cyhoeddais y byddai hon yn rhaglen o weithgarwch a gyfarwyddir yn ganolog, a nawr rydym ni'n dal i sicrhau mai felly y bydd hi. Felly, ni chaiff hi mo'i hanghofio. Bydd yn rhywbeth lle bydd mesurau perfformiad a mesurau canlyniadau i ddeall yr hyn sy'n digwydd mewn gwirionedd. Ac ydw, rwy'n disgwyl y bydd y Llywodraeth yn cael gwybod beth sy'n digwydd yn hynny o beth ac ni chaiff ei adael i fyrddau iechyd, os mynnwch chi, i farcio eu gwaith cartref eu hunain.

Ac o ran y sylw ynghylch a fydd yr arian yn cyrraedd y nod yn unol â'r amcanion, wel, rwyf wedi bod yn glir yn y gorffennol, pan gawsom ni symiau o arian a oedd wedi'u clustnodi at ddiben penodol, fod angen iddo gyflawni'r diben hwnnw. Os ydych yn ystyried yr enghraifft o'r cyllid perfformiad a gawsom ni yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf, lle nad yw byrddau iechyd wedi cyflawni yn unol â'r cynlluniau a ddarparwyd ganddyn nhw, rwyf wedi bod yn barod i adfachu'r arian hwnnw. Felly, rwyf yn glir y caiff yr arian hwn ei ddefnyddio at y diben, ac na fydd yn diflannu i bot cyffredinol o arian. Rhaid ei ddefnyddio i'r diben.  

Ac mae rhywfaint o'r adeiladu capasiti, wrth gwrs, ymhlith staff, felly mae'r gwaith ynglŷn â'r gweithlu yn bwysig nid yn unig i ddeall yr hyn y mae angen inni ei wybod, ond hefyd i'r dyfodol. Mae'r gweithgareddau recriwtio eisoes yn mynd rhagddyn nhw, y cyngor pellach gan Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru am y grwpiau staff y bydd eu hangen arnom ni, oherwydd, mewn gwirionedd, nid y cyfyngiad mwyaf ar gynyddu gallu yw'r gwely ei hun—ond yr holl staff o'i gwmpas ar gyfer y gwahanol haenau o wasanaeth y mae eu hangen—oherwydd ar y lefel uchaf o ofal, rydym ni'n sôn am ofal nyrsio un i un a gweddill y tîm o amgylch y person hwnnw hefyd. Felly, y staff, mewn gwirionedd, yw'r hyn y mae angen inni fuddsoddi ynddyn nhw o ran hyfforddi a gwella sgiliau, wrth gwrs, â chael y nifer o staff sydd eu hangen i gyflawni'r capasiti ychwanegol y mae'r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen yn ei argymell ac yr wyf wedi'i dderbyn yr ydym ni eisiau ceisio ei greu.  

O ran y sylw am drosglwyddiadau, serch hynny, mae hynny'n rhywbeth y bydd y pwyllgor gwasanaethau ambiwlans brys yn ymdrin ag ef, gan gydweithio gyda—[anghlywadwy.]— i edrych ar y profiad sydd eisoes yn bodoli yno. Felly, bydd gennych chi drosolwg yn hynny o beth o'r hyn sy'n cael ei gomisiynu, sut y caiff ei wneud, ac, unwaith eto, swm penodol o arian i fynd i sicrhau'r gwelliant hwnnw, oherwydd os cawn ni welliannau o ran oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal, nid mater fydd hi lle gallaf i neu'r Dirprwy Weinidog sefyll ar ein traed a dweud, 'Edrychwch, mae oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal wedi gwella', ond, mewn gwirionedd, y caiff ein hadnoddau drwy'r holl system eu defnyddio'n llawer gwell a mwy effeithlon. Mae'n golygu y gall pobl nad oes angen iddyn nhw fod mewn gofal critigol mwyach gael eu symud i'r man lle mae angen iddyn nhw fod, ac y bydd hynny'n aml yn nes at eu cartrefi, yn enwedig os ydyn nhw'n symud o un o'n canolfannau trydyddol. Ond bydd hefyd yn golygu y bydd rhywun y mae angen iddo gael y lle hwnnw mewn gofal critigol yn fwy tebygol o fod yn y lleoliad cywir yn gyflym, oherwydd rydym ni yn cydnabod bod diffyg hyblygrwydd, effeithlonrwydd a chapasiti yn golygu nad yw rhai pobl yn y lleoliad gorau posib ar gyfer eu gofal. Felly, mae ynglŷn â'r system gyfan. Mae'r oedi wrth drosglwyddo yn gwneud gwahaniaeth i'r lefel uchaf o ofal, ond hefyd i gael pobl i symud drwy'r system yn y cyfeiriad cywir, pa un a ydyn nhw'n symud i fyny neu i lawr yn y system. Felly, rwyf yn credu fod gennym ni'r math cywir o argymhellion fel y bydd hi nawr yn ymwneud â'r cyflawni.


I'd like to thank the Minister for his statement and for the additional information he's provided in response to Angela Burns. Like Angela Burns, I was struck by the very high quality of this report and, as the Minister and others have said, we're very grateful to the task and finish group for all the work that they've put in and, indeed, for the staff who work in very high-pressured environments, as the Minister has said. 

If I can return to the questions about the budget—this is an additional £15 million, very welcome, but not a great deal to tackle what are obviously some big issues that need to be tackled. Can the Minister let us know today from where that £15 million has come? Is that additional money into the health budget from somewhere else, or has it been reallocated from somewhere within his current budget, because these are obviously very difficult priority decisions to be made, and I think it would be helpful for us to know where that money has come from, particularly? 

I'm very interested in the points he made in response to Angela Burns about delivery plans, but he didn't quite answer her question about whether or not the funding will be ring-fenced. And our experience is that the Minister can sometimes have expectations of local health boards that they don't always fulfil, so I'd like to press him a little harder on what the consequences will be if they take this money and spend it on something else. I'm not suggesting for a moment that they will, and the report is really clear and it sets out what needs to be done so they shouldn't feel the need to do that. But I am concerned, because this is a very specific amount of money to do a very specific job, that we wouldn't want it to get lost. 

In the context of the investment issue, what discussions has the Minister or his officials had about specific investments in services in the north, where we know some of the biggest problems lie—an ongoing poor A&E performance that knocks on into a lot of other parts of the system, too many critical care cases that are actually outsourced from Wales altogether, including to Stoke, and that's not long-term acceptable, and it's not long-term good use of resources either? So, can the Minister tell us today what specific investment will go into the north to address the issues that the report highlights?

Can the Minister say a little bit more about how confident he is about the success of the recruitment campaign, basing that perhaps on how the previous campaigns have gone for other specialities? I'm really pleased to see that this is going to be included now, and it will be interesting to hear what sort of expectations the Minister has of its outcomes.

A slightly specific question: the group's report has highlighted how changes to pension and tax arrangements have created some challenges for workforce planning in this area and, no doubt, how it affects other departments too. Can the Minister tell us a bit more about how he proposes to ensure that health boards respond to those challenges, because they're clearly not going to go away?

And finally, could I just ask the Minister for some clarity around the time frame, the timescales for the implementation? I did take it from what he said that there's a certain amount of urgency in this work and that he expects the health boards to respond quickly, but I'd like to know when he feels he may be able to report back to this Chamber as to the progress that's been delivered against the report's aspirations.

Hoffwn ddiolch i'r Gweinidog am ei ddatganiad ac am yr wybodaeth ychwanegol a roddodd mewn ymateb i Angela Burns. Fel Angela Burns, fe'm trawyd gan ansawdd uchel iawn yr adroddiad hwn ac, fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog ac eraill, rydym ni'n ddiolchgar iawn i'r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen am yr holl waith maen nhw wedi'i wneud ac, yn wir, i'r staff sy'n gweithio mewn amgylchiadau lle mae pwysau mawr, fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog.

Os gallaf ddychwelyd at y cwestiynau am y gyllideb—mae hyn yn £15 miliwn yn ychwanegol, sydd i'w groesawu'n fawr, ond nid yn llawer iawn i fynd i'r afael â'r hyn sy'n amlwg yn faterion o bwys y mae angen mynd i'r afael â nhw. A all y Gweinidog roi gwybod inni heddiw o ble ddaeth y £15 miliwn hwnnw? A yw hynny yn arian ychwanegol i'r gyllideb iechyd o rywle arall, neu a yw wedi cael ei ailddyrannu o rywle o fewn ei gyllideb gyfredol, oherwydd mae'r rhain yn amlwg yn benderfyniadau blaenoriaethol anodd iawn i'w gwneud, a chredaf y byddai'n ddefnyddiol inni wybod o ble mae'r arian yna wedi dod, yn arbennig? 

Mae gennyf ddiddordeb mawr yn y sylwadau a wnaeth mewn ymateb i Angela Burns am gynlluniau cyflawni, ond ni atebodd ei chwestiwn yn llwyr ynghylch a fydd y cyllid yn cael ei neilltuo ai peidio. A'n profiad ni yw y gall y Gweinidog weithiau osod disgwyliadau ar fyrddau iechyd lleol nad ydyn nhw bob amser yn eu cyflawni, felly hoffwn bwyso arno ychydig yn galetach ynglŷn â beth fydd y canlyniadau os byddant yn cymryd yr arian hwn ac yn ei wario ar rywbeth arall. Dydw i ddim yn awgrymu am eiliad y byddan nhw'n gwneud hynny, ac mae'r adroddiad yn wirioneddol glir ac mae'n nodi'r hyn sydd angen ei wneud felly ddylen nhw ddim teimlo'r angen i wneud hynny. Ond rwy'n poeni, gan fod hwn yn swm penodol iawn o arian i wneud gwaith penodol iawn, na fyddem ni eisiau iddo fynd ar goll.

Yng nghyd-destun yr elfen o fuddsoddi, pa drafodaethau mae'r Gweinidog neu ei swyddogion wedi'u cael ynghylch buddsoddiadau penodol mewn gwasanaethau yn y gogledd, lle y gwyddom ni sydd â rhai o'r problemau mwyaf—unedau damweiniau ac achosion brys sy'n parhau'n i berfformio'n wael sy'n cael sgileffaith ar sawl rhan arall o'r system, gormod o achosion gofal critigol sydd mewn gwirionedd yn cael eu hanfon o Gymru'n gyfan gwbl, gan gynnwys i Stoke, ac nid yw hynny'n dderbyniol yn y tymor hir, ac nid yw'n ddefnydd da o adnoddau yn y tymor hir chwaith? Felly, a all y Gweinidog ddweud wrthym ni heddiw pa fuddsoddiad penodol a fydd yn y gogledd i fynd i'r afael â'r materion y mae'r adroddiad yn tynnu sylw atyn nhw?

A all y Gweinidog ddweud ychydig mwy am ba mor ffyddiog ydyw ynghylch llwyddiant yr ymgyrch recriwtio, gan seilio hynny, efallai, ar sut hwyl y cafodd yr ymgyrchoedd blaenorol ar gyfer arbenigeddau eraill? Rwy'n falch iawn o weld y caiff hyn ei gynnwys nawr, a bydd yn ddiddorol clywed pa fath o ddisgwyliadau sydd gan y Gweinidog o ran ei chanlyniadau.

Cwestiwn ychydig yn benodol: mae adroddiad y grŵp wedi amlygu sut mae newidiadau i drefniadau pensiwn a threth wedi creu rhai heriau ar gyfer cynllunio gweithlu yn y maes hwn ac, yn ddiau, sut maen nhw'n effeithio ar adrannau eraill hefyd. A all y Gweinidog ddweud ychydig mwy wrthym ni ynghylch sut y mae'n bwriadu sicrhau bod byrddau iechyd yn ymateb i'r heriau hynny, oherwydd mae'n amlwg nad ydyn nhw'n mynd i ddiflannu?

Ac yn olaf, a gaf i ofyn i'r Gweinidog am rywfaint o eglurder ynglŷn â'r amserlen, yr amserlen ar gyfer gweithredu? Cymerais o'r hyn a ddywedodd fod rhywfaint o frys yn y gwaith hwn a'i fod yn disgwyl i'r byrddau iechyd ymateb yn gyflym, ond hoffwn wybod pryd y mae'n teimlo efallai y bydd yn gallu adrodd yn ôl i'r Siambr hon am y cynnydd a gyflawnwyd o ran dyheadau'r adroddiad.


Thank you for the series of questions. In terms of the new resource, it is a central resource. It's not about reallocating budgets that already existed within health boards, but there is something about how health boards use the resources they already have available to them as well. This isn't simply saying that extra capacity will only be provided by additional money from the centre, but the £15 million is money from the centre, and Members will recall that the Faculty of Intensive Care Medicine expressed concerns about critical care capacity last year, and I asked the chief executive of NHS Wales to meet them, and that's helped to inform some of the work that we have actually undertaken since then, and members of the faculty have, of course, been involved in the task and finish group. And that comes back to the point you later made about north Wales. The additional capacity we're talking about—seven extra beds—comes from work streams that they've endorsed as well. That's the additional capacity that the finance should release, but it is on the basis that there are proper plans about how they'll do that, how they'll scale that up and make sure that the capacity is there to deliver. But that, in itself, as I've said in response to Angela Burns, must come together with more efficient use of resources and, in particular, as I said in my statement, delayed transfers of care, an area where we could make better use of what we already have as well as the additional capacity that we're looking to create.

I think I dealt with the point about what will happen if people try to spend money in a different way. I've been clear that money can be clawed back in other areas. Health boards will be managed. In this area, it's a nationally directed programme, and I expect the money to be spent that way, and health boards won't be able to find a different way to spend money inappropriately. The set of recommendations are relatively tight and clear as to how money will be spent, so there aren't lots of opportunities for money to leak into other areas of the service.

On your point about what will happen with recruitment activity, well, we actually have a good record through ‘Train. Work. Live.’, and it's come on the back of working with service areas, working with representative groups within that service area, about what is currently attractive for the way in which we deliver our service and what would make that service more attractive. And, actually, having a view on the longer term future for the service is something that staff should find attractive. And, of course, this is informed by the recommendations from a group of clinicians working in this service area at present who recognise the pressures that exist but also how there could be a better service to deliver both for our patients but also, of course, for our staff—a better place for them to do their job. And we have success in terms of psychiatry, GP training places, pharmacy, nurses and therapists in the ‘Train. Work. Live.’ programme, so we have got some reasons to be optimistic about our ability to do more in this area as well.

I expect to have plans provided in the autumn, and I expect to see progress within the next 12 months or so. But some of this, as I see it, is about skilling up the staff we currently have as well as the additional staff we need to bring in to deliver the capacity that we want to deliver. So, I'm not going to pretend that this will be a quick fix. We do have clarity about how the money should be spent and the benefits that should be gained.

Diolch am y gyfres o gwestiynau. O ran yr adnodd newydd, mae'n adnodd canolog. Nid yw'n ymwneud ag ailddyrannu cyllidebau a oedd eisoes yn bodoli o fewn byrddau iechyd, ond mae yna rywbeth ynghylch sut mae byrddau iechyd yn defnyddio'r adnoddau sydd eisoes ar gael iddyn nhw hefyd. Nid dim ond dweud y bydd capasiti ychwanegol yn cael ei ddarparu drwy arian ychwanegol o'r ganolfan yn unig yw hyn, ond arian o'r canol yw'r £15 miliwn a bydd yr Aelodau yn cofio i'r Gyfadran Meddygaeth Gofal Dwys fynegi pryderon ynghylch capasiti gofal critigol y llynedd, a gofynnais i Brif Weithredwr GIG Cymru gwrdd â nhw, ac mae hynny wedi helpu i lywio rhywfaint o'r gwaith yr ydym ni wedi'i wneud ers hynny, ac mae aelodau'r gyfadran, wrth gwrs, wedi bod yn rhan o'r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen. Ac mae hynny'n dod yn ôl at y sylw a wnaethoch chi yn ddiweddarach am y gogledd. Daw'r capasiti ychwanegol yr ydym ni'n sôn amdano—saith gwely ychwanegol—o ffrydiau gwaith y maen nhw wedi'u cymeradwyo hefyd. Dyna'r capasiti ychwanegol y dylai'r cyllid ei ryddhau, ond ar y sail bod cynlluniau priodol ynglŷn â sut y byddant yn gwneud hynny, sut y byddant yn gwneud hynny a sicrhau bod y capasiti ar gael i gyflawni. Ond, fel y dywedais mewn ymateb i Angela Burns, mae'n rhaid cyfuno hynny gyda defnydd mwy effeithlon o adnoddau ac, yn arbennig, fel y dywedais yn fy natganiad, oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal, maes lle y gallem ni wneud gwell defnydd o'r hyn sydd gennym ni eisoes yn ogystal â'r capasiti ychwanegol yr ydym ni'n gobeithio ei greu.

Rwy'n credu fy mod i wedi ymdrin â'r sylw am yr hyn fydd yn digwydd os bydd pobl yn ceisio gwario arian mewn ffordd wahanol. Rwyf wedi bod yn glir y gellir cymryd yr arian yn ôl mewn meysydd eraill. Caiff byrddau iechyd eu rheoli. Yn y maes hwn, mae'n rhaglen a gyfarwyddir yn genedlaethol, ac rwy'n disgwyl i'r arian gael ei wario yn y ffordd honno, ac ni fydd byrddau iechyd yn gallu dod o hyd i ffordd wahanol o wario arian yn amhriodol. Mae'r argymhellion yn gymharol dynn a chlir o ran sut y caiff arian ei wario, ac felly nid oes llawer o gyfleoedd i ddefnyddio'r arian mewn meysydd eraill o'r gwasanaeth.

O ran eich sylw am yr hyn a fydd yn digwydd gyda gweithgarwch recriwtio, wel, mae gennym ni hanes da drwy 'Hyfforddi. Gweithio. Byw.', ac mae hynny'n seiliedig ar weithio gyda meysydd gwasanaeth, gan weithio gyda grwpiau cynrychioliadol o fewn y maes gwasanaeth hwnnw, ynglŷn â'r hyn sy'n ddeniadol ar hyn o bryd o ran y ffordd yr ydym ni'n darparu ein gwasanaeth a'r hyn a fyddai'n gwneud y gwasanaeth hwnnw'n fwy deniadol. Ac, mewn gwirionedd, mae gallu rhoi barn am ddyfodol y gwasanaeth yn y tymor hir yn rhywbeth y dylai'r staff ei gael yn atyniadol. Ac, wrth gwrs, yn gefndir i hyn mae argymhellion grŵp o glinigwyr sy'n gweithio yn y maes gwasanaeth hwn ar hyn o bryd sy'n cydnabod y pwysau sy'n bodoli ond hefyd sut y gellid cael gwell gwasanaeth i gyflawni ar gyfer ein cleifion ond hefyd, wrth gwrs, ar gyfer ein staff—lle gwell iddyn nhw wneud eu gwaith. Ac rydym ni'n cael llwyddiant o ran seiciatreg, lleoedd hyfforddi meddygon teulu, fferylliaeth, nyrsys a therapyddion yn y rhaglen 'Hyfforddi. Gweithio. Byw.', felly mae gennym ni resymau dros fod yn gadarnhaol ynghylch ein gallu i wneud mwy yn y maes hwn hefyd.

Disgwyliaf y darperir cynlluniau yn yr hydref, a disgwyliaf weld cynnydd o fewn y 12 mis nesaf fwy neu lai. Ond mae rhywfaint o hyn, yn fy marn i, yn ymwneud â gwella sgiliau'r staff sydd gennym ni ar hyn o bryd, yn ogystal â'r staff ychwanegol y mae angen inni eu cael i gyflawni'r capasiti yr ydym ni eisiau ei ddarparu. Felly, dydw i ddim yn mynd i gymryd arnaf y bydd hwn yn ateb cyflym. Mae gennym ni eglurder ynghylch sut y dylid gwario'r arian a'r manteision y dylid eu cael.

Thank you for your statement, Minister, and for providing us with a copy of the task and finish group's final report. I would also like to thank members of the task and finish group for their work in helping us transform health services for the critically ill in Wales.

The conclusions of the report are welcome, with the objectives being clear and concise, along with excellent recommendations. As the group rightly points out and the Minister acknowledges, there is considerable strain being placed upon critical care services and how this strain will intensify in future years due to demographic changes. And, as stated, it is important, as with other healthcare services, that we speed up the pace of change within critical care, including the model of provision across Wales, to ensure the right services are in the right place for those who are critically ill at that time. Workforce issues appear to be the biggest barrier to increasing critical care services, and recruitment and retention of staff are still major factors across the NHS.

Minister, the task and finish group point to the impact recent pension changes are having, given the reliance on consultants doing additional sessions. So, what discussions have you had with the UK Government regarding the impact tax and pension changes are having on our NHS? I've been told that recent changes are discouraging more and more doctors from conducting extra sessions across the NHS. It is clear that we need to recruit more staff for our critical care service, but these personnel will not appear overnight, and, therefore, Minister, what steps are you taking to ensure critical care services do not deteriorate further until we have sufficient staff to meet current and future demand? Importantly, Minister, is funding ring-fenced?

Minister, I welcome your national approach to critical care. Given the roll-out of the major trauma network, what steps are you taking to ensure we have sufficient patient transfer capacity going forward?

Finally, Minister, I also welcome the emphasis given to reducing delayed transfers from critical care. However, we still have issues of delayed transfers throughout the system and I recently learnt of an instance of an elderly stroke patient being sent home without any care package in place. What discussions have you had with colleagues in local government about increasing social care capacity, given the impact this has upon services such as critical care? Because this 85-year-old gentleman waited nine hours in A&E for a bed, how will you, therefore, ensure there are sufficient beds for people, as his local hospital was also full to capacity? Thank you, once again, Minister, and I look forward to working with you to improve critical care services for patients in Wales.

Diolch am eich datganiad, Gweinidog, ac am ddarparu copi o adroddiad terfynol y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen inni. Hoffwn hefyd ddiolch i aelodau'r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen am eu gwaith yn ein helpu i drawsnewid gwasanaethau iechyd i'r rhai sy'n ddifrifol wael yng Nghymru. Mae casgliadau'r adroddiad i'w croesawu, gyda'r amcanion yn glir a chryno, ynghyd ag argymhellion rhagorol.

Fel y mae'r grŵp yn gywir yn ei nodi ac mae'r Gweinidog yn cydnabod, mae cryn straen yn cael ei roi ar wasanaethau gofal critigol a sut y bydd y straen hwn yn dwysáu yn y dyfodol oherwydd newidiadau demograffig. Ac, fel y dywedwyd, mae'n bwysig, fel gyda gwasanaethau gofal iechyd eraill, ein bod yn cyflymu'r broses o newid o fewn gofal critigol, gan gynnwys y model o ddarpariaeth ledled Cymru, er mwyn sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau cywir yn y lle cywir i'r rhai sy'n ddifrifol wael bryd hynny. Ymddengys mai problemau gweithlu yw'r rhwystr mwyaf i gynyddu gwasanaethau gofal critigol, ac mae recriwtio a chadw staff yn ffactorau pwysig o hyd ledled y GIG.

Gweinidog, mae'r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen yn cyfeirio at yr effaith y mae newidiadau diweddar mewn pensiwn yn eu cael, o gofio'r ddibyniaeth ar ymgynghorwyr yn cynnal sesiynau ychwanegol. Felly, pa drafodaethau ydych chi wedi'u cael gyda Llywodraeth y DU ynglŷn â'r effaith y mae newidiadau treth a phensiwn yn eu cael ar ein GIG? Rwyf wedi cael gwybod bod y newidiadau diweddar yn annog mwy a mwy o feddygon i beidio â chynnal sesiynau ychwanegol ledled y GIG. Mae'n amlwg bod angen inni recriwtio mwy o staff ar gyfer ein gwasanaeth gofal critigol, ond ni fydd y personél hyn yn ymddangos dros nos, ac, felly, Gweinidog, beth ydych chi'n ei wneud i sicrhau nad yw gwasanaethau gofal critigol yn dirywio ymhellach hyd nes y bydd gennym ni ddigon o staff i ddiwallu'r galw presennol ac yn y dyfodol? Yn bwysig, Gweinidog, a yw'r cyllid wedi'i glustnodi?

Gweinidog, rwy'n croesawu eich agwedd genedlaethol at ofal critigol. O gofio bod y rhwydwaith trawma sylweddol wedi'i gyflwyno, beth ydych chi'n ei wneud i sicrhau bod gennym ni ddigon o gapasiti i drosglwyddo cleifion yn y dyfodol?

Yn olaf, Gweinidog, rwyf hefyd yn croesawu'r pwyslais a roddir ar leihau oedi wrth drosglwyddo o ofal critigol. Fodd bynnag, mae gennym ni broblemau o hyd o ran oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal drwy'r system gyfan ac yn ddiweddar dysgais am enghraifft o glaf strôc oedrannus yn cael ei anfon adref heb fod unrhyw becyn gofal ar gael. Pa drafodaethau ydych chi wedi'u cael gyda'ch cydweithwyr mewn llywodraeth leol ynghylch cynyddu capasiti gofal cymdeithasol, ac ystyried yr effaith y mae hyn yn ei chael ar wasanaethau megis gofal critigol? Oherwydd bu'r hen ŵr 85 oed hwn yn aros naw awr mewn Uned Ddamweiniau ac Achosion Brys am wely, sut fyddwch chi, felly, yn sicrhau bod digon o welyau ar gyfer pobl, oherwydd roedd ei ysbyty lleol hefyd yn llawn dop? Diolch ichi, unwaith eto, Gweinidog, ac edrychaf ymlaen at weithio gyda chi i wella gwasanaethau gofal critigol i gleifion yng Nghymru.


Thank you. On workforce, of course, in terms of stabilisation of the workforce now, we invested £5 million in this particular area over the last winter and that was deliberately to try to stabilise this particular part of the service whilst we're looking to the future. On your point about delayed transfers, it's quite interesting, actually, because, when I've gone through a range of different hospitals across the country, as every health Minister gets the opportunity to do throughout the year and in particular through winter, our emergency medicine consultants are actually quite an honest bunch, and they'll tell you what they think works and what they think doesn't work. What's been really interesting for me is that they have not made a bid for an extra amount of beds within the hospital in general. And we often argue about bed numbers in this place, in saying, 'You've cut too many bed numbers out of the system over a long period of time', but, actually, their bigger ask is for there to be greater capacity in social care. I had a very interesting couple of conversations through the winter where they said, 'We've got a challenge at present, but I don't think having an extra 20 or 30 beds in the hospital over and above what we already have is the answer'. They were saying, 'We want there to be more capacity in social care to release people out of the hospital', because they all knew of the large numbers of medically fit people who existed within the hospital, and that was the challenge about the whole system not being able to move people around to where they needed to go.

I have raised these issues and have discussions with health boards and local government together on delayed transfers. I've recently concluded a series of meetings with each regional partnership board, health and local government leadership, and I've always, since—. Well, following my first discussions about delayed transfers of care, where I talked individually to local authorities and then their health board and finding out that they broadly said it was the partner who wasn't in the room who was responsible, I've always had joint meetings. It's been a much better way of understanding what progress could and should look like. And everyone understands this is a priority for the Government, but, equally for them as well, whether in health or local government, and we are in a much better position with delayed transfers at historic record lows, whereas, in England, the position is going in the other direction. So, we're getting some things right, but it's about how much more we need to do.

And then your point about pension changes: well, this is a big challenge for the health service, not just in this area, but a much broader challenge, and it's not just a challenge for Wales. It affects every single UK nation, every single partner of the national health service, and it is poisoning the well of goodwill that exists from our staff who are prepared to do additional work within the national health service, including waiting list initiatives in evenings and weekends, and they're now finding significant and unexpected tax bills arriving on their doorstep. It's a problem that's been created through a change in Treasury rules and the risk is that we will drive NHS workers out of the health service—not just doctors, but other staff too—and we'll then have to buy those services and it will cost us as much if not more than what we would otherwise pay to NHS staff. The other risk is, of course, that, if we drive high earners out of the NHS pension scheme, then we potentially undermine the scheme for the future. So, I've already had correspondence with the UK Government on this point; there is due to be a formal consultation in the imminent future. But I do hope that the Treasury are prepared to listen to every part of the national health service and to do the right thing by our NHS, or we'll all pay a price if they refuse to do so.

Diolch. O ran y gweithlu, wrth gwrs, o ran sefydlogi'r gweithlu nawr, buddsoddwyd £5 miliwn yn y maes arbennig hwn dros y gaeaf diwethaf, a hynny'n fwriadol er mwyn ceisio sefydlogi'r rhan benodol hon o'r gwasanaeth wrth i ni edrych tua'r dyfodol. O ran eich sylw am oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal, mae'n eithaf diddorol, a dweud y gwir, oherwydd, pan oeddwn yn mynd drwy amryw o wahanol ysbytai ledled y wlad, fel y caiff pob Gweinidog Iechyd y cyfle i wneud drwy gydol y flwyddyn ac yn arbennig drwy'r gaeaf, mae ein hymgynghorwyr meddygol brys mewn gwirionedd yn griw eithaf gonest, a byddan nhw'n dweud wrthych chi yr hyn y maen nhw'n ei gredu sy'n gweithio a'r hyn nad yw'n gweithio. Yr hyn sydd wedi bod yn ddiddorol iawn i mi yw nad ydyn nhw wedi gwneud cais am fwy o welyau yn yr ysbyty yn gyffredinol. Ac rydym ni'n dadlau'n aml am niferoedd gwelyau yn y lle hwn, wrth ddweud, 'rydych chi wedi cael gwared ar ormod o welyau o'r system dros gyfnod hir', ond, a dweud y gwir, eu hangen mawr nhw yw sicrhau mwy o gapasiti mewn gofal cymdeithasol. Cefais ychydig o sgyrsiau diddorol iawn yn ystod y gaeaf pryd dywedon nhw, 'Mae gennym ni her ar hyn o bryd, ond nid wyf yn credu mai cael 20 neu 30 o welyau ychwanegol yn yr ysbyty ar ben yr hyn sydd gennym ni yn barod yw'r ateb'. Roedden nhw'n dweud, 'rydym ni eisiau cael mwy o gapasiti ym maes gofal cymdeithasol i ryddhau pobl o'r ysbyty', oherwydd roedden nhw i gyd yn gwybod am y niferoedd mawr o bobl feddygol iach a oedd yn yr ysbyty, a dyna oedd yr her o ran y system gyfan yn methu â symud pobl i'r man lle'r oedd angen iddyn nhw fynd iddo.

Rwyf wedi crybwyll y materion hyn ac wedi cael trafodaethau gyda byrddau iechyd a llywodraeth leol gyda'i gilydd ar oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal. Yn ddiweddar, rwyf wedi cwblhau cyfres o gyfarfodydd gyda phob bwrdd partneriaeth ranbarthol, arweinwyr iechyd a llywodraeth leol, ac rwyf wastad, ers —. Wel, yn dilyn fy nhrafodaethau cyntaf am oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal, lle siaradais yn unigol ag awdurdodau lleol ac wedyn eu bwrdd iechyd a chanfod eu bod yn dweud yn fras mai'r partner nad oedd yn yr ystafell a oedd yn gyfrifol, rwyf bob amser wedi cael cyfarfodydd ar y cyd. Mae wedi bod yn ffordd well o lawer i ddeall sut y gallai ac y dylai'r cynnydd edrych. Ac mae pawb yn deall bod hyn yn flaenoriaeth i'r Llywodraeth, ond, i'r un graddau iddyn nhw hefyd, boed ym maes iechyd neu lywodraeth leol, ac rydym ni mewn sefyllfa well o lawer, gyda llai o oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal nag erioed o'r blaen, ond yn Lloegr, fel arall mae'r duedd. Felly, rydym ni'n gwneud rhai pethau'n gywir, ond mae a wnelo â faint yn fwy y mae angen i ni ei wneud.

Ac yna eich sylw am newidiadau pensiwn: wel, mae hon yn her fawr i'r gwasanaeth iechyd, nid yn unig yn y maes hwn, ond yn her lawer ehangach, ac nid dim ond yn her i Gymru. Mae'n effeithio ar bob un genedl yn y DU, pob un partner yn y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol, ac mae'n gwenwyno'r ewyllys da sy'n bodoli ymysg ein staff sy'n barod i wneud gwaith ychwanegol yn y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol, gan gynnwys gweithio ar fentrau rhestrau aros ar nosweithiau a'r penwythnosau, a nawr maen nhw'n darganfod biliau treth sylweddol ac annisgwyl yn cyrraedd eu stepen drws. Mae'n broblem sydd wedi'i chreu drwy newid rheolau'r Trysorlys a'r perygl yw y byddwn yn gyrru gweithwyr y GIG allan o'r gwasanaeth iechyd—nid meddygon yn unig, ond staff eraill hefyd—a bydd yn rhaid i ni brynu'r gwasanaethau hynny wedyn a bydd yn costio cymaint os nad mwy na'r hyn y byddem ni fel arall yn ei dalu i staff y GIG. Y risg arall, wrth gwrs, yw, os byddwn yn gyrru staff sydd ar gyflogau breision allan o gynllun pensiwn y GIG, yna mae'n bosib y byddwn yn tanseilio'r cynllun ar gyfer y dyfodol. Felly, rwyf eisoes wedi gohebu â Llywodraeth y DU gyda hyn mewn golwg; y bwriad yw cynnal ymgynghoriad ffurfiol yn y dyfodol agos. Ond rwyf yn gobeithio bod y Trysorlys yn barod i wrando ar bob rhan o'r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol a gwneud y peth cywir i'n GIG ni, neu fe fyddwn ni i gyd yn talu pris os gwrthodant wneud hynny.


Thank you very much, Minister. Thank you.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Gweinidog. Diolch.

4. Datganiad gan Weinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth: Y Cynllun Gweithredu Economaidd—Mesurau Datblygu Economaidd
4. Statement by the Minister for Economy and Transport: The Economic Action Plan—Economic Development Measures

Item 4 on the agenda has been withdrawn.

Cafodd Eitem 4 ar yr agenda ei thynnu'n ôl.

5. Datganiad gan y Dirprwy Weinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol: Gwella Canlyniadau ar gyfer Plant sy'n Derbyn Gofal
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services: Improving Outcomes for Looked-after Children

Item 5 is a statement by the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services on improving outcomes for looked-after children, and I call on the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services, Julie Morgan.

Eitem 5 yw datganiad gan y Dirprwy Weinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol am wella canlyniadau i blant sy'n derbyn gofal, ac rwy'n galw ar y Dirprwy Weinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Julie Morgan.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Our vision for children's services is clearly set out in our programme for government, 'Taking Wales Forward', and our national strategy, 'Prosperity for All'. I believe there is a strong cross-party consensus amongst Members of this Chamber that we all have collective responsibility to ensure that care-experienced children are provided with the best care and support available to allow them to flourish in a safe environment and to enjoy the same opportunities as any other child would expect. 

I think there is also consensus that, where possible, children should be supported to stay with their birth families. Our First Minister has highlighted the increasing numbers of looked-after children in Wales as a priority area for preventative action. The First Minister has asked for clear reduction expectations to be set to reduce the numbers of children in care, reduce the number of children placed out of county, reduce the number of children placed out of Wales, and reduce the number of children removed from parents with a learning disability.

Latest statistics show that, at 31 March 2018, there were 6,405 looked-after children in Wales. Over the last 15 years, we've seen the number of looked-after children in Wales increase by 34 per cent. A recent report from the Wales Centre for Public Policy notes that this rise cannot be attributed to austerity alone. The rate of looked-after children per 10,000 population in Wales is 102. However, there is significant variation across Welsh authorities, ranging from 50 per 10,000 population at the lowest, to 191 per 10,000 population at the highest, and, although deprivation is an important factor in this variation, there are also variations in practice. This variation between areas and the general upward trajectory is unsustainable, and local authorities themselves have acknowledged the pressure being placed on children's services and the family courts.

Almost 25 per cent of looked-after children are placed out of county and 5 per cent are placed outside Wales. While there'll often be good reasons for them to be placed out of the area—for example, the need for specialist placements or with wider families and friends—we want to explore as to whether a proportion of these children could be placed more appropriately closer to home. Proposed reduction expectations will span the course of three years, with regular evaluation and monitoring, both quarterly and at the end of each year.

I acknowledge that this is a challenging agenda. However, given the pressures being placed on local authorities and the family courts in an era of dwindling resources, we must take action that will help safely reduce the number of looked-after children in Wales, enabling resources to be re-invested in prevention and in supporting positive outcomes for care-experienced children in Wales. I've been absolutely clear that, if we take a safety-first approach here in Wales, nothing overrides the need to protect children from abuse or neglect. And I've committed to work co-productively with local authorities to develop reduction expectations that are bespoke to each local authority, tailored to their populations and demography.

This approach has been welcomed by the Wales Local Government Association and the Association of Directors of Social Services Cymru, who have committed to work with us on this agenda. Working co-productively, a technical group was established, with senior representatives from local government and the third sector. A conversation framework and reporting template was developed ahead of a visit by a small looked-after children engagement team to each of the 22 local authorities in Wales. The framework helped set the agenda and ensure a consistent discussion was had in each local authority, focusing on how they manage their service, their approach to risk, and management of entrance and exits from care. All 22 visits were completed in April and May. The engagement team were very impressed by the scale of work being undertaken throughout Wales to support children and families and to avoid the need for statutory intervention, and discussions held with local authorities were well received.

Conversations focused on the need for collective responsibility for children’s services at a corporate level to support improved outcomes for children. Local authorities were encouraged to demonstrate how they manage the business of children’s services, including information about the practice framework they operate, data about the services provided to children and families, performance monitoring and tracking. Local authorities were encouraged to be aspirational and ambitious in developing their reduction expectation plans. A clear message was given of the need for action to rebalance the system, focusing on prevention and early intervention to support the best interests of children and families. As the officials went around Wales, concerns were raised about potential consequences of not meeting expectations. Local authorities were reassured that penalties were not being considered.

There are clear consequences of not taking action, however. Whilst official statistics on the numbers of looked-after children will not be available for 2018-19 until November, local authorities reported early figures, as of March 2019, which show another potential increase in the number of looked-after children of around 470, leading to a rate of 109 per 10,000 population. To compare this with other UK nations, in Northern Ireland, for example, the rate is much lower, at 71 per 10,000, despite it being more deprived overall than Wales. Based on existing trends, if we were not to take any action, numbers will continue to increase by an average of 6 per cent per year.

Following the visits, all local authorities returned reduction expectation plans by 31 May. Sixteen local authorities have set targets to reduce their looked-after population, representing an average reduction of 4 per cent in each of the next three years. Conversations are under way with those authorities that have yet to commit to reductions. Further visits were being planned to support those authorities in the development of their reduction expectations. Clarification is also required on the plans submitted for out of county, out of Wales and children removed from parents with a learning disability. Whilst local authorities have told us that children are being appropriately placed, authorities are being encouraged to demonstrate their plans for bringing children closer to home.   

Local authorities have consistently highlighted that the judiciary, the Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service Cymru and health boards also have a key role in supporting reduction expectation plans. We are concerned, for example, that the number of children placed with parents under a care order has increased significantly over the last three years. Further work will be undertaken with the judiciary and CAFCASS Cymru to understand a perceived reluctance in the use of supervision orders, section 76 and the application of the no order principle.

Local authorities and key partners will be invited to a national learning and peer support event in October to learn about the key messages from this work. Local authorities will be encouraged to work together and share best practice that will help reduce the variance in numbers across Wales. This exercise is aligned with the activity continuing under the Improving Outcomes for Children programme and its ministerial advisory group, ably and successfully chaired by David Melding AM, particularly the focus of work stream 1, around prevention and early intervention and safely reducing the need for care. Together, this demonstrates our firm commitment to rebalancing the looked-after children system so that the right support can be provided to enable families to support their own children, and outcomes for those children in care are maximised.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd. Caiff ein gweledigaeth ni o ran gwasanaethau plant ei hamlinellu'n glir yn ein rhaglen lywodraethu, 'Symud  Cymru Ymlaen', ac yn ein strategaeth genedlaethol, 'Ffyniant i Bawb'. Rwy'n credu bod consensws trawsbleidiol cryf ymysg aelodau'r Siambr hon fod gan bob un ohonom ni gyfrifoldeb ar y cyd i sicrhau bod plant sy'n cael profiad o ofal yn cael y gofal a'r cymorth gorau sydd ar gael i'w galluogi nhw i ffynnu mewn amgylchiadau diogel a mwynhau'r un cyfleoedd ag y byddai unrhyw blentyn arall yn eu disgwyl.

Rwy'n credu hefyd bod consensws y dylai plant, os oes modd, gael cymorth i fod gyda'u teuluoedd biolegol. Mae ein Prif Weinidog wedi tynnu sylw at y ffaith bod nifer cynyddol y plant sy'n derbyn gofal yng Nghymru yn faes blaenoriaeth ar gyfer camau ataliol. Mae'r Prif Weinidog wedi gofyn am osod disgwyliadau clir i leihau nifer y plant mewn gofal, a lleihau nifer y plant sy'n cael eu lleoli y tu allan i'w sir, a lleihau nifer y plant sy'n cael eu lleoli y tu allan i Gymru, yn ogystal â lleihau nifer y plant sy'n cael eu symud oddi wrth rieni sydd ag anabledd dysgu.

Mae'r ystadegau diweddaraf yn dangos bod 6,405 o blant yn derbyn gofal yng Nghymru ar 31 o fis Mawrth 2018. Dros y 15 mlynedd diwethaf, rydym wedi gweld cynnydd o 34 y cant yn nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal yng Nghymru. Mae adroddiad diweddar gan Ganolfan Polisi Cyhoeddus Cymru yn nodi na ellir priodoli'r cynnydd hwn yn unig i gyni. Cyfradd y plant sy'n derbyn gofal fesul 10,000 o'r boblogaeth yng Nghymru yw 102. Serch hynny, mae hyn yn amrywio'n sylweddol rhwng awdurdodau yng Nghymru, o 50 fesul 10,000 o'r boblogaeth ar ei isaf, hyd 191 fesul 10,000 o'r boblogaeth ar ei uchaf. Ac er bod amddifadedd yn ffactor pwysig yn yr amrywiad hwn, ceir amrywiadau hefyd o ran ymarfer. Ni ellir goddef y gwahaniaeth hwn rhwng ardaloedd na'r cynnydd cyffredinol, ac mae'r awdurdodau lleol eu hunain wedi cydnabod y pwysau sy'n cael ei roi ar wasanaethau plant ac ar y llysoedd teulu.

Mae bron 25 y cant o'r plant sy'n derbyn gofal yn cael eu lleoli y tu allan i'w sir a 5 y cant yn cael eu lleoli y tu allan i Gymru. Er bod rhesymau da yn aml dros eu lleoli y tu hwnt i'r ardal—er enghraifft, yr angen am leoliadau arbenigol neu gyda ffrindiau a'r teulu ehangach—rydym yn awyddus i ystyried a ellid lleoli cyfran o'r plant hyn mewn modd mwy priodol yn nes at eu cynefin. Bydd y disgwyliadau arfaethedig o ran lleihau hyn yn ymestyn dros gyfnod o dair blynedd, gyda gwerthuso a monitro'n digwydd yn rheolaidd, yn chwarterol ac ar ddiwedd pob blwyddyn.

Rwy'n cydnabod bod yr agenda hon yn un heriol. Er hynny, o ystyried y pwysau a roddir ar awdurdodau lleol a'r llysoedd teulu mewn oes lle mae adnoddau yn prinhau, mae'n rhaid i ni gymryd camau a fydd yn helpu i leihau mewn modd diogel nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal yng Nghymru, gan alluogi ail-fuddsoddi mewn adnoddau i atal a chefnogi canlyniadau cadarnhaol i blant sydd â phrofiad o ofal yng Nghymru. Rwyf wedi bod yn gwbl glir, drwy weithredu mewn dull sy'n rhoi diogelwch yn gyntaf yma yng Nghymru, nid oes dim yn bwysicach na'r angen i amddiffyn plant rhag cael eu cam-drin neu eu hesgeuluso. Ac rwyf wedi ymrwymo i weithio mewn modd cydgynhyrchiol ag awdurdodau lleol i ddatblygu disgwyliadau o ran lleihau sydd wedi cael eu teilwra'n benodol i bob awdurdod lleol, a'u teilwra i'w poblogaethau a'u demograffeg nhw.

Cafodd y dull hwn o weithredu ei groesawu gan Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a Chymdeithas Cyfarwyddwyr Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol Cymru, sydd wedi ymrwymo i weithio gyda ni ar yr agenda hon. Gan weithio mewn ffordd gydgynhyrchiol, sefydlwyd grŵp technegol, gydag uwch gynrychiolwyr o Lywodraeth Leol a'r trydydd sector. Datblygwyd fframwaith ar gyfer trafodaeth a thempled ar gyfer adrodd cyn i bob un o'r 22 awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru gael ymweliad gan dîm bychan i ymgysylltu â phlant sy'n derbyn gofal. Helpodd y fframwaith i bennu'r agenda a sicrhau bod trafodaeth yn digwydd yn gyson ym mhob awdurdod lleol, gan ganolbwyntio ar sut y maen nhw'n rheoli eu gwasanaeth, eu dull o ymdrin â risg, a'u dull o reoli mynediad i ofal a gadael gofal. Cwblhawyd pob un o'r 22 ymweliad ym misoedd Ebrill a Mai. Roedd y tîm ymgysylltu yn edmygu maint y gwaith sy'n cael ei wneud ledled Cymru i gefnogi plant a theuluoedd ac i osgoi'r angen am ymyrraeth statudol, a chafodd y trafodaethau a gynhaliwyd gydag awdurdodau lleol dderbyniad da.

Roedd y trafodaethau'n canolbwyntio ar yr angen am gyfrifoldeb ar y cyd dros wasanaethau plant ar lefel gorfforaethol i helpu i wella canlyniadau i blant. Anogwyd yr awdurdodau lleol i ddangos sut y maen nhw'n rheoli'r busnes gwasanaethau plant, gan gynnwys gwybodaeth am y fframwaith ymarfer y maen nhw'n ei weithredu, data am y gwasanaethau a ddarperir i blant a theuluoedd, monitro perfformiad ac olrhain. Anogwyd awdurdodau lleol i fod yn uchelgeisiol wrth ddatblygu eu cynlluniau o ran disgwyliadau lleihau. Cyhoeddwyd y neges yn glir am yr angen i weithredu i ailgydbwyso'r system, gan ganolbwyntio ar atal ac ymyrryd yn gynnar i gefnogi buddiannau plant a theuluoedd. Wrth i'r swyddogion fynd o amgylch Cymru, mynegwyd pryderon ynglŷn â chanlyniadau posibl methiant wrth fodloni'r disgwyliadau. Rhoddwyd sicrwydd i'r awdurdodau lleol nad oedd cosbi'n cael ei ystyried.

Fodd bynnag, fe ddaw canlyniadau amlwg yn sgil peidio â gweithredu. Er nad yw ystadegau swyddogol ar niferoedd y plant sy'n derbyn gofal ar gael ar gyfer 2018-19 tan fis Tachwedd, cyfeiriodd yr awdurdodau lleol at y ffigurau cynnar, fel y rhai ym mis Mawrth 2019, sy'n dangos cynnydd arall o bosib yn nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal o oddeutu 470, gan arwain at gyfradd o 109 i bob 10,000 o'r boblogaeth. O gymharu hyn â gwledydd eraill y DU, yng Ngogledd Iwerddon, er enghraifft, mae'r gyfradd yn is o lawer, sef 71 fesul 10,000, er gwaethaf y ffaith ei bod yn fwy difreintiedig yno nag yng Nghymru, yn gyffredinol. Ar sail y tueddiadau presennol, os na chymerwn ni unrhyw gamau gweithredu, bydd y niferoedd yn parhau i gynyddu 6 y cant ar gyfartaledd bob blwyddyn.

Yn dilyn yr ymweliadau, rhoddodd pob awdurdod lleol ei gynlluniau ar gyfer disgwyliadau o ran lleihad erbyn 31 Mai. Mae 16 o awdurdodau lleol wedi gosod nodau i leihau niferoedd y rhai sy'n derbyn gofal, sy'n golygu gostyngiad o 4 y cant ar gyfartaledd ym mhob un o'r tair blynedd nesaf. Mae trafodaethau ar y gweill gyda'r awdurdodau hynny sydd heb ymrwymo eto i ostyngiadau. Roedd ymweliadau pellach yn cael eu cynllunio i helpu'r awdurdodau hynny i ddatblygu eu disgwyliadau nhw o ran lleihad. Mae angen eglurhad hefyd ar y cynlluniau a gyflwynir o ran yr hyn sy'n digwydd y tu allan i'w sir, y tu allan i Gymru ac yn achos plant a symudir oddi wrth rieni sydd ag anabledd dysgu. Er bod awdurdodau lleol wedi dweud wrthym fod plant yn cael eu lleoli mewn modd priodol, fe'u hanogir i ddangos eu cynlluniau ar gyfer dod â phlant yn nes i'w cynefin.

Mae awdurdodau lleol wedi tynnu sylw'n gyson at y ffaith fod gan y farnwriaeth, y Gwasanaeth Cynghori a Chynorthwyo Llys i Blant a Theuluoedd Cymru a byrddau iechyd hefyd waith allweddol o ran cefnogi cynlluniau ar gyfer disgwyliadau lleihad. Rydym yn pryderu, er enghraifft, fod nifer y plant sydd wedi cael eu lleoli gyda rhieni dan orchymyn gofal wedi cynyddu yn sylweddol dros y tair blynedd diwethaf. Bydd gwaith pellach yn cael ei wneud gyda'r farnwriaeth a CAFCASS Cymru i ddeall yr amharodrwydd i ddefnyddio gorchmynion goruchwylio, adran 76 a gweithredu'r egwyddor na ddylid rhoi gorchymyn.

Bydd awdurdodau lleol a phartneriaid allweddol yn cael eu gwahodd i ddigwyddiad cenedlaethol dysgu a chefnogi gan gymheiriaid ym mis Hydref er mwyn dysgu am y negeseuon allweddol a ddaw o'r gwaith hwn. Bydd awdurdodau lleol yn cael eu hannog i gydweithio a rhannu arferion gorau a fydd yn helpu i leihau'r amrywiaeth yn y niferoedd ledled Cymru. Mae'r ymarfer hwn yn cyd-fynd â'r gweithgarwch sy'n parhau yn sgil y rhaglen Gwella Canlyniadau i Blant a'i grŵp cynghori gweinidogol, y mae David Melding AC yn ei gadeirio yn fedrus ac yn llwyddiannus, yn enwedig y canolbwyntio ar ffrwd waith 1, ynghylch atal ac ymyrraeth gynnar a lleihau'r angen am ofal mewn modd diogel. Gyda'i gilydd, mae hyn yn dangos ein hymrwymiad cadarn i ailgydbwyso'r system ar gyfer plant sy'n derbyn gofal fel y gellir rhoi'r cymorth cywir i alluogi teuluoedd i gefnogi eu plant eu hunain, a sicrhau'r canlyniadau gorau posibl ar gyfer y plant hynny sydd mewn gofal.


I thank the Deputy Minister for the statement, and also to confirm belief that, you're quite right, there is strong cross-party consensus amongst Members of this Chamber that we all have a collective responsibility to ensure that care that children experience is actually of the best quality. However, you have the levers of power, so it was with significant interest that I read your statement. Urgent measures are needed, because Wales has seen a 34 per cent increase in the number of looked-after children over the past 15 years. In 2017, 23 care and support plans were put in place by children's services every single day. On average, a child or a young person was brought into the care system in Wales every four hours. So, as I'm sure you will agree, it is alarming that the number of looked-after children in Wales has reached a rate of 109 per 10,000 population here, falling behind other UK nations.

So, question 1. Twenty-five per cent of children are placed out of county, and 5 per cent outside of Wales. Now, you have stated that you want to explore whether a proportion of these could be placed closer to home. So, therefore, will you clarify what steps you are taking to achieve this, and will you set a target and a time frame, so that we see a reduction in numbers?

Question 2. You have committed to working with local authorities to develop reduction expectations, tailored to their populations and demography. However, only 16 authorities out of the 22 have set targets to reduce their looked-after population. So, I suppose the question is: why is this, and when should we expect to see targets set for the other six local authorities? As I hope you will agree, we need to see all councils working towards reduction, and if there is no target, I am left wondering how successful the reduction expectation plans will be.

And my final question, Deputy Minister. We know that local authorities are key to addressing the looked-after-child crisis here in Wales. Social services departments are under huge financial pressures. For example, last week, it was reported that Ynys Môn council children's services department overspent its 2018-19 budget by £1.83 million, largely because of a spike in the number of children taken into care, and then expensive out-of-county placements. Therefore, will you commit to providing extra financial support to our local authorities, who report finance issues being the barrier to reducing the number of looked-after children? And would you clarify to me how many additional children you do expect to come under the remit of the already struggling care system? And also, at a time when we see such a crisis in our looked-after children, and lots of pressures on our social care departments, is there really a case for the defence of reasonable chastisement to be removed?

Rwy'n diolch i'r Dirprwy Weinidog am y datganiad, ac rwyf i hefyd am gadarnhau'r gred, eich bod yn llygad eich lle, fod consensws trawsbleidiol cryf ymysg aelodau'r Siambr hon fod gan bob un ohonom ni gyfrifoldeb ar y cyd i sicrhau bod y gofal y mae plant yn ei gael o'r ansawdd gorau. Er hynny, yn eich dwylo chi y mae'r awenau o ran pwerau, ac felly roeddwn i'n darllen eich datganiad gyda chryn ddiddordeb. Mae angen mesurau ar frys, gan fod Cymru wedi gweld cynnydd o 34 y cant yn nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal dros y 15 mlynedd diwethaf. Yn 2017, cafodd 23 o gynlluniau gofal a chymorth eu rhoi ar waith gan y gwasanaethau i blant bob dydd. Ar gyfartaledd, roedd plentyn neu unigolyn ifanc yn cael ei dderbyn i'r system gofal yng Nghymru bob pedair awr. Felly, fel y cytunwch, rwy'n siŵr, mae'n frawychus bod nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal yng Nghymru wedi cyrraedd cyfradd o 109 fesul 10,000 o'r boblogaeth, gan syrthio y tu ôl i wledydd eraill y DU.

Felly, cwestiwn rhif 1. Lleolir dau ddeg a phump y cant o blant y tu allan i'w sir, a 5 y cant y tu allan i Gymru. Nawr, rydych chi wedi dweud eich bod eisiau edrych i weld a oes modd lleoli cyfran o'r rhain yn nes i'w cynefin. Felly, gan hynny, a wnewch chi egluro pa gamau yr ydych yn eu cymryd i gyflawni hyn, ac a wnewch chi osod nod a therfyn amser, inni gael gweld gostyngiad yn y niferoedd?

Cwestiwn 2. Rydych wedi ymrwymo i weithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i ddatblygu disgwyliadau o ran lleihad, wedi cael eu teilwra i'w poblogaethau a'u demograffeg nhw. Er hynny, dim ond 16 o awdurdodau o'r 22 sydd wedi gosod nodau i leihau'r niferodd yn eu poblogaeth nhw sy'n derbyn gofal. Felly, mae'n debyg mai'r cwestiwn yw: pam felly, a phryd y dylem ni ddisgwyl gweld nodau'n cael eu gosod ar gyfer y chwe awdurdod lleol arall? Fel y cytunwch, rwy'n gobeithio, mae angen inni weld pob cyngor yn gweithio tuag at leihad, ac os nad oes nod, tybed pa mor llwyddiannus fydd y cynlluniau ar gyfer disgwyliadau o ran lleihad.

A'm cwestiwn olaf i, Dirprwy Weinidog. Gwyddom fod awdurdodau lleol yn allweddol i fynd i'r afael â'r argyfwng o ran plant sy'n derbyn gofal yma yng Nghymru. Mae adrannau gwasanaethau cymdeithasol dan bwysau ariannol enfawr. Er enghraifft, yr wythnos diwethaf, adroddwyd bod adran gwasanaethau plant Cyngor Ynys Môn wedi gorwario ei chyllideb 2018-19 gan £1,830,000, yn bennaf oherwydd cynnydd sydyn yn nifer y plant sy'n cael eu derbyn i ofal, a lleoliadau costus y tu allan i'r sir ar ben hynny. Felly, a wnewch chi ymrwymo i ddarparu cymorth ariannol ychwanegol i'n hawdurdodau lleol ni, sy'n dweud mai materion cyllid yw'r rhwystr i leihad yn nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal? Ac a wnewch chi egluro faint o blant eto yr ydych yn disgwyl iddyn nhw ddod o dan gylch gwaith system gofal sydd mewn trafferthion eisoes? A hefyd, ar adeg yr ydym yn gweld y fath argyfwng o ran plant sy'n derbyn gofal, a llawer o bwysau ar ein hadrannau gofal cymdeithasol, a oes gwir achos dros ddileu'r amddiffyniad o gosb resymol?


I thank Janet Finch-Saunders for those questions. We are bringing this statement here to this Chamber today because we are very concerned about the rise in the number of children in care, and I think I've gone through the ways that we hope to address it. She is right; there's been a 34 per cent increase over the last 15 years, and we just cannot let this go on. We can't let it go on for the sake of the children, and that is the whole reason that we are doing this—we are putting the children first. And we know that, wherever possible, we want the children to remain in their own homes. So that is the reason behind us doing this.

In terms of 25 per cent being out of county, and some of them being out of country as well, it obviously is much better for children if they can be placed nearer their families, and near their network of local services. The contact that I've had with children who are in care—one of the main things that they say is that they want to keep contact, particularly with their siblings. They just want to see their brothers and sisters. And if you put them a long way away, that is very difficult. So, we are encouraging local authorities to develop facilities within their own areas, on a regional basis, so some of these children who go outside Wales, with very expensive placements, are able to be placed within the country—this country, within Wales. There have been some very good developments on that. The regional partnership boards are actually doing that at the moment, and we have provided them with particular sums of money to do that. So, we are moving in that direction.

Why only 16 authorities? Twenty-two authorities have agreed with our aims. Twenty-two authorities are supportive of the agenda that we have set, but only 16 authorities have actually come up with the reduction that they'd like to bring about. And we're very pleased that those authorities have responded in the way that they have with very sensible well-thought-out ways of preventing children coming into care and rehabilitating children in a very, very positive way. As for the ones that haven't done that, we're still in conversation with them. So, that discussion is still going on.

I think there is an understandable nervousness amongst local authorities about putting forward the numbers that they would be able to reduce, because I think we can all understand that there is a nervousness about putting targets, and so I absolutely understand how the local authorities feel. But we are working with them, and we hope that the other six will be able to come forward, and we can work with them to support a stabilisation of the number of children that are coming into care. Because we have to take some action, and one of the best ways of doing it is for us to work with the local authorities to bring those numbers down. So, we're continuing to work with the six local authorities that, as yet, haven't actually given any numbers.

Absolutely, local authorities are under great financial pressure, and one of the huge pressures, which I think Janet Finch-Saunders referred to, is the huge amount of money they have to pay for some of these out of county placements. So, one of the ways of bringing down the impact on them is to help them to keep the children at home, nearer home, and that is one of the reasons why we've obviously given particular sums of money for the edge of care services. So, every local authority now in Wales has an edge of care service. So, I can assure her that we are very aware of the austerity programme. We've had a big debate about that in First Minister's questions today, and we know that there's a great deal of hardship being caused by some of the welfare reforms that have been brought in. But I really think that we cannot leave this situation to continue. So, we are working very hard at it for the sake of the children. 

Rwy'n diolch i Janet Finch-Saunders am y cwestiynau hynny. Rydym ni'n dod â'r datganiad hwn gerbron y Siambr hon heddiw oherwydd ein bod yn bryderus iawn ynglŷn â'r cynnydd yn nifer y plant mewn gofal, a chredaf fy mod i wedi rhestru'r ffyrdd yr ydym ni'n gobeithio mynd i'r afael ag ef. Mae hi'n iawn; bu cynnydd o 34 y cant dros y 15 mlynedd diwethaf, ac ni allwn ni ganiatáu i hyn barhau. Ni allwn ni ganiatáu i hyn barhau er mwyn y plant, a dyna'r holl reswm pam rydym ni'n gwneud hyn—rydym ni am roi'r plant yn gyntaf. A gwyddom, pryd bynnag y bo hynny'n bosibl, ein bod yn dymuno i'r plant gael aros yn eu cartrefi eu hunain. Felly dyna'r rheswm pam y gwnawn ni hyn.

O ran y ffaith bod 25 y cant y tu allan i'r sir, a rhai ohonyn nhw y tu allan i'r wlad hefyd, mae'n amlwg ei bod hi'n well o lawer i'r plant pe gellid eu lleoli nhw'n nes at eu teuluoedd, ac yn agos at eu rhwydwaith o wasanaethau lleol. Mae'r cyswllt yr wyf i wedi ei gael gyda phlant sydd mewn gofal—un o'r prif bethau y maen nhw'n ei ddweud yw eu bod nhw'n awyddus i gadw cysylltiad, yn enwedig gyda'u brodyr a'u chwiorydd. Y cyfan y maen nhw'n ei ddymuno yw cael gweld eu brodyr a'u chwiorydd. Ac os ydych chi'n eu lleoli nhw ymhell i ffwrdd, mae hynny'n anodd iawn. Felly, rydym yn annog awdurdodau lleol i ddatblygu cyfleusterau yn eu hardaloedd nhw eu hunain, ar sail ranbarthol, fel y gall rhai o'r plant hyn sy'n mynd y tu allan i Gymru, gyda lleoliadau costus iawn, gael eu lleoli o fewn y wlad—y wlad hon, yng Nghymru. Bu rhai datblygiadau da iawn yn hynny o beth. Mae'r byrddau partneriaethau rhanbarthol yn gwneud hynny ar hyn o bryd, ac rydym wedi rhoi symiau o arian iddyn nhw i wneud hynny'n benodol. Felly, rydym yn symud i'r cyfeiriad hwnnw.

Pam 16 awdurdod yn unig? Mae dau ddeg a dau o awdurdodau wedi cytuno gyda'n hamcanion ni. Mae dau ddeg a dau o awdurdodau yn cefnogi'r agenda yr ydym ni wedi ei phennu, ond dim ond 16 o awdurdodau sydd wedi gwireddu'r gostyngiad y bydden nhw'n ei ddymuno. Ac rydym ni'n falch iawn bod yr awdurdodau hynny wedi ymateb yn y ffordd y maen nhw, gan ddefnyddio ffyrdd synhwyrol iawn o atal plant rhag cael eu rhoi mewn gofal ac adsefydlu plant mewn ffordd gadarnhaol iawn, iawn. O ran y rhai nad ydyn nhw wedi gwneud hynny, rydym ni'n trafod gyda nhw o hyd. Felly, mae'r drafodaeth honno'n parhau o hyd.

Rwyf i o'r farn fod yna nerfusrwydd sy'n ddealladwy ymysg awdurdodau lleol ynglŷn â chyflwyno'r niferoedd y bydden nhw'n gallu eu lleihau. Rwy'n credu y gallwn ni i gyd ddeall fod yna nerfusrwydd ynghylch pennu targedau, ac felly rwy'n ddeall yn llwyr sut mae'r awdurdodau lleol yn teimlo. Ond rydym ni'n gweithio gyda nhw, ac rydym ni'n gobeithio y bydd y chwech arall yn gallu dod ymlaen, ac y gallwn ni weithio gyda nhw i gefnogi sefydlogrwydd yn nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal. Oherwydd mae'n rhaid inni weithredu, ac un o'r ffyrdd gorau o wneud hynny yw gweithio gyda'r awdurdodau lleol i ostwng y niferoedd hynny. Felly, rydym ni'n parhau i weithio gyda'r chwe awdurdod lleol nad ydyn nhw, hyd yma, mewn gwirionedd wedi cyflwyno unrhyw niferoedd.

Mae'n wair dweud bod yr awdurdodau lleol dan bwysau ariannol mawr. Un o'r pwysau mwyaf, rwy'n credu i Janet Finch-Saunders gyfeirio ato, yw'r swm enfawr o arian y mae'n rhaid iddyn nhw ei dalu am rai o'r lleoliadau hyn y tu allan i'w sir. Felly, un o'r ffyrdd o leihau'r effaith arnyn nhw yw eu helpu i gadw'r plant yn eu cartrefi, yn nes adref, a dyna un o'r rhesymau pam mae'n amlwg ein bod ni wedi rhoi symiau penodol o arian i'r gwasanaethau ar ffiniau gofal. Felly, mae gan bob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru wasanaeth ar ffiniau gofal erbyn hyn. A gallaf ei sicrhau ein bod ni'n ymwybodol iawn o'r rhaglen gyni. Rydym wedi cael dadl fawr ynglŷn â hynny yng nghwestiynau'r Prif Weinidog heddiw, ac rydym yn gwybod bod rhywfaint o'r diwygiadau lles a gyflwynwyd yn achosi llawer iawn o galedi. Ond rwyf i'n wir yn credu na allwn ni ganiatáu i'r sefyllfa hon barhau. Felly, rydym yn gweithio'n galed iawn ar hyn er lles y plant.  


I'd like to thank the Minister very much for her statement. As Janet Finch-Saunders has said, I'd just like to reassure her that the cross-party consensus around putting our children first, around these looked-after children being, in a sense, our children as a National Assembly and a national Parliament—that we feel an individual responsibility for them in line with the local corporate parenting agenda. But the Deputy Minister will also be aware that there are some of us who are concerned about playing a numbers game with this particular issue. 

I'd like to begin by asking the Deputy Minister a little bit more about preventative services. You described the way the engagement team went out and have been impressed by what they've seen, but the comments that I'm receiving from the sector and from children and young people themselves suggest that some of those preventative services are very variable. There is an edge of care service in every local authority now, which is obviously to be welcomed, but I'd like to hear a bit more today, Deputy Minister, about what the Government is doing to ensure consistency in those services, how families get access to those services, the kinds of support that they need. I'm not suggesting you need to impose some sort of national model, because what's appropriate in Gwynedd might not be appropriate in Blaenau Gwent, but we do need to have that consistency. 

Because I would put it to you, Deputy Minister, that, in a sense, there's a risk of putting the cart before the horse here; that you're wanting local authorities to agree targets for reducing numbers, but without necessarily having national expectations around the kinds of preventative services, the amount of preventative services that are needed to make that reduction meaningful. Because while I am hugely reassured to hear you say that the Government is taking a safety-first approach, I take that to mean—and perhaps you can confirm that to us—that you would never expect a local authority not to take a child into care simply because they were going to spoil their targets if they did such a thing. But I wonder if you'd acknowledge, Deputy Minister, that there's a risk of putting perverse incentives into the system. We know that people do what is counted, do we not? And if numbers of children or percentage against the population—or however it's measured—is what's being counted, and not the number of children that get effective access to edge of care services, then surely the risk is that there will be people who will do what is counted, and if only the numbers of children—. 

I am worried about those marginal cases, if I'm honest, Deputy Minister. I am worried that there may be pressure on front-line social workers. We've both worked in the field, we both know what it can be like when you've got managers saying to you, 'Well, you know, is it really that serious?' because this service is full, or 'We haven't got an allocation for this.' So, I'd seek some reassurance—and this is your opportunity to repeat, perhaps, what you've already said—that you would never expect a local authority not to protect an individual child because it was going to mess up the figures. I'm sure that that isn't your expectation at all, but I hope you'll acknowledge that there's that pressure.

I was pleased to hear you say in your statement that you would be taking into account the county's population and demography. For example, I'm not sure—and it would be interesting to know—do counties that are smaller geographically end up with more out-of-county placements? It may be easier to find an in-county placement if you're a social worker in Rhondda Cynon Taf than it is if you're a social worker in Merthyr Tydfil, just because of the size of the population that you're dealing with. So, I'm relieved to hear you say that consideration will be given to the different challenges the different local authorities face. You will be aware, through those conversations, and, I'm sure, through direct representations, that some of the local authorities in the north, for example, have real issues with transitory populations—that families will turn up who are already in really serious trouble, and they may not have time to give them the opportunity to have the preventative work in time. So, I'd just like you to reassure us that those kinds of individual issues for local authorities will be taken into account, if you are set on following these targets.

I'd also like to ask what additional resources might be available to local authorities, particularly for preventative services. It is incredibly hard times, and somebody once said to me—and I wish it were not true—there are few votes in looked-after children. There are not many people, when they're making their decision of who to vote for in a local authority election, who are thinking first and foremost about how much the authority is spending on preventative services for children. So, I wonder if you could give some consideration, longer term in the budgeting process, to perhaps some protected resources for this particular area of work—for the preventative, the edge of care, and one step back.

I'm very grateful to the Deputy Presiding Officer for her indulgence. I just want to raise a couple of points really briefly. She's looking at me over her glasses in that way, and we all know we're in trouble when that happens to us.

Hoffwn i ddiolch yn fawr iawn i'r Gweinidog am ei datganiad. Fel y dywedodd Janet Finch-Saunders, hoffwn innau ei sicrhau hi bod y consensws trawsbleidiol ynghylch rhoi ein plant ni yn gyntaf, ynghylch y plant hyn sy'n derbyn gofal, mewn ffordd, ein plant ni fel Cynulliad Cenedlaethol a Senedd genedlaethol—ein bod ni'n teimlo cyfrifoldeb unigol tuag atyn nhw yn unol â'r agenda rhianta corfforaethol lleol. Ond bydd y Dirprwy Weinidog yn ymwybodol hefyd fod yna rai ohonom ni'n poeni am chwarae gêm rhifau gyda'r mater penodol hwn.

Hoffwn i ddechrau drwy holi ychydig mwy i'r Dirprwy Weinidog am y gwasanaethau ataliol. Roeddech chi'n disgrifio'r ffordd yr aeth y tîm ymgysylltu allan a'u bod nhw'n edmygu'r hyn a welson nhw, ond mae'r sylwadau yr wyf i'n eu cael gan y sector a'r plant a'r bobl ifanc eu hunain yn awgrymu bod rhai o'r gwasanaethau ataliol hynny'n amrywio'n fawr iawn. Mae gwasanaeth ar ffiniau gofal gan bob awdurdod lleol erbyn hyn, ac mae hynny'n amlwg i'w groesawu. Ond hoffwn i glywed ychydig mwy heddiw, Dirprwy Weinidog, am yr hyn y mae'r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i sicrhau cysondeb yn y gwasanaethau hynny, sut y caiff teuluoedd fynd at y gwasanaethau hynny, y mathau o gymorth sydd eu hangen arnyn nhw. Nid wyf i'n awgrymu bod angen ichi osod rhyw fath o batrwm cenedlaethol, oherwydd efallai nad yw'r hyn sy'n briodol yng Ngwynedd yn briodol ym Mlaenau Gwent, ond mae angen inni gael cysondeb o'r fath.

Byddwn i'n dweud wrthych chi, Dirprwy Weinidog, fod yna berygl, ar un ystyr, o roi'r drol o flaen y ceffyl yn y fan hon; rydych chi'n awyddus i awdurdodau lleol gytuno ar dargedau ar gyfer lleihau niferoedd, ond heb fod â disgwyliadau cenedlaethol o reidrwydd ynghylch y mathau o wasanaethau ataliol, faint o wasanaethau ataliol sydd eu hangen i wneud y gostyngiad hwnnw'n rhywbeth sy'n ystyrlon. Oherwydd, er fy mod i'n hynod o falch eich clywed yn dweud bod y Llywodraeth yn cymryd yr agwedd fod diogelwch yn dod yn gyntaf, rwy'n cymryd bod hynny'n golygu—ac efallai y gwnewch chi gadarnhau hynny i ni—na fyddech chi byth yn disgwyl i awdurdod lleol beidio â chymryd plentyn i mewn i ofal dim ond am fod hynny'n mynd i ddifetha eu targedau nhw pe bydden nhw'n gwneud y ffasiwn beth. Ond tybed a fyddech chi'n cydnabod, Dirprwy Weinidog, fod yna berygl o osod cymhellion gwrthnysig yn y system. Gwyddom fod pobl yn gwneud yr hyn sy'n cael ei gyfrif. Ac os yw nifer y plant neu ganran yn ôl y boblogaeth—neu sut bynnag y caiff hynny ei fesur—yn cael ei gyfrif, ac nid nifer y plant sy'n cael mynediad effeithiol at wasanaethau ar ffiniau gofal, yna mae'n debyg iawn mai'r perygl yw y bydd pobl yn gwneud yr hyn sy'n cael ei gyfrif, ac os mai dim ond niferoedd y plant—.

Rwy'n ofidus ynglŷn â'r achosion ymylol hynny, a bod yn onest, Dirprwy Weinidog. Rwy'n ofidus y gallai fod pwysau ar weithwyr cymdeithasol ar y rheng flaen. Rydym ni ein dwy wedi gweithio yn y maes, mae'r ddwy ohonom yn gwybod sut beth yw rheolwyr yn dweud wrthych chi, 'Wel, wyddoch chi, a yw hyn mor ddifrifol â hynny?' oherwydd mae'r gwasanaeth hwn yn orlawn, neu 'Nid oes arian wedi'i ddyrannu inni ar gyfer hyn.' Felly, byddwn i'n ceisio rhyw sicrwydd—a dyma eich cyfle i ailadrodd, efallai, yr hyn yr ydych wedi ei ddweud eisoes—na fyddech chi byth yn disgwyl i awdurdod lleol beidio ag amddiffyn plentyn unigol oherwydd ei fod yn mynd i ddrysu'r ffigurau. Rwy'n siŵr nad yw hynny'n ddisgwyliad gennych chi o gwbl, ond rwy'n gobeithio y byddech chi'n cydnabod bod pwysau o'r fath yn bodoli.

Roeddwn i'n falch o'ch clywed yn dweud yn eich datganiad y byddech chi'n ystyried poblogaeth a demograffeg y sir. Er enghraifft, nid wyf i'n siŵr—ac fe fyddai hi'n ddiddorol gwybod—a yw siroedd llai o faint yn ddaearyddol yn cael mwy o leoliadau y tu allan i'r sir? Efallai y bydd yn haws dod o hyd i leoliad yn y sir os ydych chi'n weithiwr cymdeithasol yn Rhondda Cynon Taf nag ydyw os ydych chi'n weithiwr cymdeithasol ym Merthyr Tudful yn syml oherwydd maint y boblogaeth yr ydych chi'n ymdrin â hi. Felly, mae eich clywed chi'n dweud y bydd ystyriaeth yn cael ei rhoi i'r gwahanol heriau sy'n wynebu'r awdurdodau lleol amrywiol yn achos rhyddhad i mi.  Byddwch yn ymwybodol, drwy'r sgyrsiau hynny ac, rwy'n siŵr, drwy sylwadau uniongyrchol, fod gan rai o'r awdurdodau lleol yn y gogledd, er enghraifft, broblemau gwirioneddol o ran poblogaethau dros dro—y bydd teuluoedd yn dod i'r amlwg sydd eisoes mewn helbulon mawr iawn, ac efallai nad oes ganddyn nhw amser i roi cyfle i'r rheini gael y gwaith ataliol mewn da bryd. Felly, hoffwn pe gallech ein sicrhau ni y bydd y mathau hynny o faterion unigol ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol yn cael eu hystyried, os ydych chi'n bwriadu dilyn y targedau hyn.

Hoffwn i ofyn hefyd pa adnoddau ychwanegol a allai fod ar gael i awdurdodau lleol, yn enwedig ar gyfer gwasanaethau ataliol. Mae hwn yn gyfnod eithriadol o anodd. Dywedodd rhywun wrthyf unwaith—a hoffwn i'n fawr pe na fyddai'n wir—nad oes modd ennill llawer o bleidleisiau gyda mater plant sy'n derbyn gofal. Nid oes llawer o bobl, pan fyddan nhw'n penderfynu pwy i bleidleisio o'i blaid mewn etholiad awdurdod lleol, yn rhoi'r ystyriaeth bennaf i'r swm y mae'r awdurdod yn ei wario ar wasanaethau ataliol i blant. Felly, tybed a wnewch chi roi rhywfaint o ystyriaeth, yn y tymor hwy yn y broses gyllidebu, i rai adnoddau a ddiogelir efallai ar gyfer y maes penodol hwn o waith—ar gyfer camau ataliol, ar ffiniau gofal, ac un cam yn ôl.

Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i'r Dirprwy Lywydd am ei goddefgarwch. Rwy'n dymuno codi un neu ddau o bwyntiau yn fyr iawn. Mae'n edrych arna i dros ei sbectol yn y ffordd honno sydd ganddi, a gwyddom ein bod mewn trybini pan fydd hynny'n digwydd inni.


I would like to hear the Minister's views today about how we can ensure that the broader public services, not just social services, take their responsibility to looked-after children seriously. I'm thinking of the health service, education services—we know there are still some real issues with looked-after children being discriminated against in schools—and housing. Does the Minister feel that it may be a time to look at legislating around the corporate parenting agenda? I'm aware this is something that is being considered by the Ministerial advisory group, but sometimes we do need to be really firm with organisations around what we expect. 

I have a concern, and I'm sure you do too, Deputy Minister, about children who are in care in Wales from outside Wales, in a very large and increasing number of private children's homes. Now, obviously, those children are not our children in the way that our own looked-after children are, but while they're with us they're our responsibility. I have a real worry about the quality of services provided in some of those homes, and I wonder if the Minister would agree with me that it might be worth considering making the provision of a visiting advocacy service to each one of those homes a condition of those homes being registered, so that we could have some reassurance that an independent individual was going into those homes, seeing how the children were getting on, and being there to be a voice for those children if need be—a proactive advocacy offer. And finally, can the Minister assure us that throughout all of this work she will be paying very careful attention to young people currently in the system and to care-experienced voices? Thank you again, Deputy Presiding Officer.

Hoffwn i glywed barn y Gweinidog heddiw ynglŷn â sut y gallwn ni sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ehangach fwy eang, nid gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn unig, yn cymryd o ddifrif eu cyfrifoldeb dros blant sy'n derbyn gofal. Rwy'n meddwl am y gwasanaeth iechyd, gwasanaethau addysg—rydym ni'n gwybod fod yna rai problemau gwirioneddol yn parhau gyda gwahaniaethu'n digwydd mewn ysgolion i blant sy'n derbyn gofal—ac o ran tai. A yw'r Gweinidog yn teimlo y gallai fod yn amser priodol i ystyried deddfu ar yr agenda rhianta corfforaethol? Gwn fod hyn yn rhywbeth sy'n cael ei ystyried gan y grŵp cynghori Gweinidogol, ond weithiau mae angen inni fod yn gadarn iawn gyda sefydliadau ynglŷn â'r hyn yr ydym yn ei ddisgwyl.

Rwy'n pryderu, ac rwy'n siŵr eich bod chwithau, Dirprwy Weinidog, am blant sydd mewn gofal yng Nghymru o'r tu allan i Gymru, mewn nifer mawr iawn a chynyddol o gartrefi plant preifat. Nawr, yn amlwg, nid yw'r plant hynny'n blant i ni fel y mae ein plant ni ein hunain sy'n derbyn gofal, ond tra eu bod nhw gyda ni, y ni sy'n gyfrifol amdanynt. Rwy'n poeni'n fawr am ansawdd y gwasanaethau a ddarperir yn rhai o'r cartrefi hynny. Tybed a fyddai'r Gweinidog yn cytuno â mi ei bod yn werth inni ystyried darparu gwasanaeth eiriolaeth ar gyfer pob un o'r cartrefi hynny, ac y byddai hynny'n amod ar y cartrefi hynny'n cael eu cofrestru, fel ein bod yn cael rhywfaint o sicrwydd bod unigolyn annibynnol yn mynd i'r cartrefi hynny, gan weld sut mae'r plant yn dod yn eu blaenau, a bod llais i'w gael yno i'r plant hynny pe byddai angen—cynnig o eiriolaeth ragweithiol. Ac yn olaf, a wnaiff y Gweinidog roi sicrwydd inni y bydd hi, yn y gwaith hwn drwyddo draw, yn rhoi sylw manwl iawn i'r bobl ifanc sydd yn y system ar hyn o bryd ac i'r lleisiau sydd â phrofiad o fod mewn gofal? Diolch i chi eto, Dirprwy Lywydd.

I thank Helen Mary Jones for that extensive list of questions. I'll try and cover some of them at least. I just want to come up with the most important one, which is that of course we do not expect any child not to be taken into care if they are at risk of neglect or abuse. We want to do this safely, and we want to do it, as I've said already, for the benefit of the children, and that is the reason behind this statement today.

The other point is that no-one is imposing any targets. The local authorities will come up with their own targets. So, if they come up with the targets, they will consider the geography, the size, and will come forward with targets. And as I say, those that have come forward with targets have come forward with very well-thought-out ways that they can actually reduce the numbers, and have got planning for preventing a certain number of children coming in, and reunification for other children where they see it may be possible. I think 16 out of 22 is quite a good number, actually, for those that have come forward with these very well-thought-out targets. But it won't be us imposing it or giving penalties; it's just trying to put some overall structure in trying to stop this escalation of children coming into care, which I'm sure we all agree cannot be the right way to go. So we've got to do something to try to stop it, and trying to do this in a way that is working in co-production, working with the local authorities in order to give what help we can to help them achieve—that is the reason we're doing it.

So I don't think the Member should worry about the use of figures, because it's not a way of forcing local authorities to come up with a number of figures. That's not the way we're doing it. It's giving them the opportunity to come forward with the figures that they think they could safely reduce, and working with them and trying to help them achieve it. So I think that's the most important thing out of all that she's said, because I understand, because as she said, I worked in the field as well, and so I know what pressures there are on local authorities. But there is certainly no possible way that any child should be left not in safety for this reason. So I think that was the main point, so I want to reassure and try and convince her on that.

On the other points, just very swiftly, in terms of the variation around the country, yes, I think that is something that we need to look at, because as I say, the edge of care services, we've given £5 million recurrent investment to the edge of care services, and so far over 3,600 children have been supported to remain within the family unit. Those were the figures for 2017-18. So that is good progress, and obviously there are many other ways that we are giving support, through Families First, through Flying Start, but of course that is only to a limited number of areas, and we certainly see this as a priority area. This is what the First Minister has put as one of his main priorities, and I think it's really commendable that the First Minister has put this at the top of his agenda: let's try and reduce the number of children in care, and let's give them the opportunity to live with their families, if we can put in that extra bit of help. So this is all geared towards that in order to improve the chances of children's lives.

Then I'll just pick up the last point you made, about the worry about a private establishment where there are a lot of children from outside Wales placed. Again, I think that's a huge matter of concern, because although we're responsible for our children who live in Wales, those children are placed a long way away from their families, so they don't have those sort of checks on what's happening. So I certainly think we could have a further discussion about what we could do to try to look at those establishments.

Rwy'n diolch i Helen Mary Jones am y rhestr faith o gwestiynau. Rwyf am geisio ymdrin â rhai ohonyn nhw o leiaf. Rwy'n awyddus i ateb yr un pwysicaf, sef wrth gwrs nad ydym ni'n disgwyl i unrhyw blentyn beidio â chael ei gymryd i mewn i ofal os ydyw mewn perygl o gael ei esgeuluso neu ei gam-drin. Rydym yn eiddgar i wneud hyn mewn modd diogel, ac rydym yn dymuno gwneud hynny, fel y dywedais i eisoes, er lles y plant, a dyna'r rheswm y tu ôl i'r datganiad hwn heddiw.

Y pwynt arall yw nad oes neb yn gorfodi unrhyw dargedau ar neb arall. Bydd yr awdurdodau lleol yn cyflwyno eu targedau eu hunain. Felly, os ydyn nhw'n cyflwyno'r targedau, byddan nhw'n ystyried y ddaearyddiaeth, y maint, ac fe fyddan nhw'n cyflwyno targedau. Ac fel yr wyf i'n ei ddweud, mae'r rheini sydd wedi cyflwyno targedau wedi cyflwyno ffyrdd ystyrlon iawn o allu lleihau'r niferoedd, ac wedi sefydlu cynlluniau i atal nifer penodol o blant rhag dod i mewn, ac ar gyfer ailuno plant eraill lle credant fod hynny'n bosibl. Rwyf i o'r farn fod 16 allan o 22 yn rhif gweddol dda, mewn gwirionedd, ar gyfer y rhai sydd wedi cyflwyno'r targedau hyn ac wedi eu hystyried nhw'n ofalus iawn. Ond nid ydym yn dymuno eu gorfodi na phennu cosbau; y cyfan y mae hyn yn ei wneud yw ceisio sicrhau strwythur cyffredinol i geisio atal y cynnydd hwn yn nifer y plant sy'n cael eu derbyn mewn gofal, fel y bydd pawb, rwy'n siŵr, yn cytuno nad honno yw'r ffordd orau o wneud pethau. Felly, mae'n rhaid inni wneud rhywbeth i geisio atal hyn, a chan geisio gwneud hyn mewn ffordd sy'n gweithio ar y cyd, gan weithio gyda'r awdurdodau lleol i roi'r cymorth y gallwn ni i'w helpu i gyflawni—dyna'r rheswm y gwnawn ni hyn.

Felly, nid wyf i'n credu y dylai'r Aelod ofidio am y defnydd o ffigurau, oherwydd nid yw'n ffordd o orfodi awdurdodau lleol i gyflwyno nifer o ffigurau. Nid honno yw'r ffordd yr ydym ni'n gwneud hyn. Mae'n cynnig cyfle iddynt gyflwyno'r ffigurau y maen nhw'n credu y gallen nhw eu lleihau'n ddiogel, a gweithio gyda nhw a cheisio eu helpu nhw i gyflawni hynny. Felly rwy'n credu mai dyna'r peth pwysicaf o'r holl bethau a ddywedwyd ganddi, gan fy mod i'n deall, oherwydd fel y dywedodd hi, roeddwn innau'n gweithio yn y maes hefyd, ac felly'n gwybod am y pwysau sydd ar awdurdodau lleol. Ond yn sicr, nid oes unrhyw fodd y gellid gadael unrhyw blentyn heb ddiogelwch am y rheswm hwn. Felly, rwy'n credu mai dyna oedd y prif bwynt, ac rwy'n awyddus i dawelu ei meddwl hi a cheisio ei hargyhoeddi o hynny.

O ran y pwyntiau eraill, yn gyflym iawn, o ran yr amrywiaeth ledled y wlad, ydw, rwy'n credu bod hynny'n rhywbeth y mae angen inni edrych arno. Oherwydd, fel y dywedais, y gwasanaethau ar ffiniau gofal, rydym wedi rhoi £5 miliwn o fuddsoddiad rheolaidd i'r gwasanaethau ar ffiniau gofal, ac mae dros 3,600 o blant wedi cael cymorth hyd yn hyn i aros o fewn yr uned deuluol. Dyna'r ffigurau am 2017-18. Felly, mae hwnnw'n gynnydd da, ac mae'n amlwg bod llawer o ffyrdd eraill yr ydym ni'n rhoi cymorth, drwy Teuluoedd yn Gyntaf, drwy Dechrau'n Deg. Ond wrth gwrs, dim ond mewn nifer cyfyngedig o ardaloedd y ceir hynny, ac yn sicr rydym yn ystyried hwn yn faes blaenoriaeth. Mae'r Prif Weinidog wedi nodi hyn yn un o'i brif flaenoriaethau, ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn glodwiw iawn fod y Prif Weinidog wedi rhoi hyn ar ben ei agenda ef: gadewch inni geisio lleihau nifer y plant sydd mewn gofal, a rhoi cyfle iddyn nhw fyw gyda'u teuluoedd, os gallwn ni roi'r tamaid bach ychwanegol hwnnw o gymorth. Felly mae'r cyfan wedi ei anelu at hynny er mwyn gwella cyfleoedd bywyd i blant.

Ac yna rwyf eisiau codi'r pwynt olaf a wnaethoch chi, o ran y pryder am sefydliad preifat lle mae llawer o blant o'r tu allan i Gymru wedi cael eu lleoli. Unwaith eto, rwy'n credu bod hwnnw'n destun pryder enfawr, oherwydd er mai ni sy'n gyfrifol am ein plant ni sy'n byw yng Nghymru, mae'r plant hynny'n cael eu lleoli ymhell oddi wrth eu teuluoedd, felly nid oes ganddyn nhw'r mathau hynny o wiriadau ar yr hyn sy'n digwydd. Felly, yn sicr, credaf y gallem ni gael trafodaeth eto ar yr hyn y gellid ei wneud i geisio edrych ar y sefydliadau hynny.


Thank you, Minister, for your statement. Last week I visited, along with the rest of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, the young offenders unit at Parc prison, and to be told that 40 per cent of the young people there were formerly looked after was a salutary reminder, if ever one was needed, of the way that we have to go to improve the outcomes for looked-after children. So, I'm sure that is something that we all very much buy into in this Chamber.

I have to say, though, that I am deeply uneasy with the idea of setting targets or expectations of reduction, or whatever you want to call them, in this field, for the reasons that Helen Mary Jones has just said, really. I think there is always a risk of perverse incentives and of measuring what is being counted. The 2018 UK-wide care crisis review found that there was no simple explanation for the rising numbers of looked-after children, so I think it is fair to say that I and the committee are also concerned that there is unlikely to be any simple answer either, and that's why the committee has written to the First Minister, to ADSS and to the children's commissioner expressing some concerns and probing this issue further.

I do have some specific questions that I would like to ask you. The first is to ask about the recently published Care Inspectorate Wales thematic report on looked-after children, which did not find evidence of children becoming looked after who should not have done so. So, I'd be interested to know what account you have taken of that work in taking this forward. The committee has written to you, as I said, and I won't ask all the questions that were in the letter, because we'll await a written response from the First Minister. But I would ask again the question about who is actually responsible for risk assessing these targets. The onus is being put on local authorities, who also have the statutory duty to keep children safe, and I don't think there's a head of children's services in the country that gets up in the morning and thinks, 'Let’s bring more children into care.' So, I'd like to ask you, specifically, about that and what the role of Welsh Government will be in monitoring those targets or whatever they are to be called.

I welcome what you've said about co-production, although what I would say is, from what I've seen so far, the approach in this does not smack of co-production in the dealings of some of the authorities, and that is a concern and something that I will be wanting to follow. You referred to this being a prime commitment of the First Minister. I'd like to ask whether there’s been a child rights impact assessment done on this commitment, and if so, whether that will be published.

And just finally, on the out-of-county, out-of-country placements, again, nobody wants to see children placed far away from their homes and their communities, but as far as I understand the situation, we just don't have the alternative placements for some of these children. We don't have enough secure placements, we don't have enough low-secure, or enough support for children and young people with emotional problems. And this cannot just be an issue for local authorities; this is something that has to be led by Government, because they cannot plan this on their own. So, I would like to know what the Welsh Government is doing. And we questioned the health Minister on this last week in the Children, Young People and Education Committee. What is Welsh Government doing to make sure that those places are available, to avoid children having to be sent so far from their homes? Thank you.

Diolch, Gweinidog, am eich datganiad. Yr wythnos diwethaf, ar y cyd â phawb arall ar y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon, fe ymwelais i â'r uned troseddwyr ifanc yng ngharchar y Parc. Roedd yn beth da imi gael fy atgoffa o'r angen i wella'r canlyniadau i blant sy'n derbyn gofal, pe byddai eisiau hynny, gan fod 40 y cant o'r bobl ifanc a oedd yno wedi derbyn gofal. Felly, rwy'n siŵr bod hynny'n rhywbeth yr ydym ni i gyd yn ei gefnogi'n gryf iawn yn y Siambr hon.

Mae'n rhaid imi ddweud, er hynny, fy mod i'n anesmwyth iawn gyda'r syniad o bennu targedau neu ddisgwyliadau am leihad, neu beth bynnag y dymunwch chi eu galw nhw, yn y maes hwn, am y rhesymau y mae Helen Mary Jones newydd eu mynegi. Rwy'n credu bod yna berygl bob amser o gymhellion gwrthnysig a mesur yn unig yr hyn a gyfrifir. Roedd yr adolygiad o'r argyfwng gofal yn y DU 2018 yn nodi nad oedd unrhyw esboniad syml am y niferoedd cynyddol o blant sy'n derbyn gofal. Felly rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n deg dweud fy mod i a'r Pwyllgor yn bryderus hefyd ei bod yn annhebygol y ceir unrhyw ateb syml ychwaith, a dyna pam mae'r pwyllgor wedi ysgrifennu at y Prif Weinidog, at Gymdeithas Cyfarwyddwyr Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ac at y comisiynydd plant yn mynegi rhai pryderon ac yn holi ymhellach ynglŷn â'r mater hwn.

Mae gennyf i rai cwestiynau penodol yr hoffwn i eu gofyn i chi. Y cyntaf yw holi am adroddiad thematig Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar ynglŷn â phlant sy'n derbyn gofal, na ddaeth o hyd i dystiolaeth fod plant sy'n cael eu derbyn mewn gofal na ddylen nhw fod mewn gofal. Felly, byddai'n ddiddorol cael gwybod pa ystyriaeth yr ydych chi wedi ei rhoi i'r gwaith hwnnw wrth fwrw ymlaen â hyn. Mae'r Pwyllgor wedi ysgrifennu atoch chi, fel y dywedais i, ac nid wyf am ofyn y cwestiynau a oedd yn y llythyr i gyd, oherwydd rydym am aros am ymateb ysgrifenedig gan y Prif Weinidog. Ond rwyf i am ofyn eto pwy yn union sy'n gyfrifol am asesu risg y targedau hyn. Mae'r cyfrifoldeb yn cael ei roi ar awdurdodau lleol, sydd â'r ddyletswydd statudol hefyd o gadw plant yn ddiogel, ac nid wyf i o'r farn fod yna unrhyw bennaeth gwasanaethau plant yn y wlad sy'n codi yn y bore ac yn meddwl, 'Gadewch inni dderbyn mwy o blant mewn gofal.' Felly, hoffwn ofyn i chi, yn benodol, am hynny a'r hyn fydd swyddogaeth Llywodraeth Cymru wrth fonitro'r targedau hynny neu beth bynnag y byddan nhw'n cael eu galw.

Rwy'n croesawu'r hyn yr ydych wedi ei ddweud am gyd-gynhyrchu, er mai'r hyn y byddwn i'n ei ddweud yw, o'r hyn yr wyf i wedi ei weld hyd yn hyn, nid yw'r gweithredu yn y maes hwn yn awgrymu unrhyw gyd-gynhyrchu yng ngweithrediadau rhai o'r awdurdodau, ac mae hynny'n bryder ac yn rhywbeth y byddwn i'n dymuno mynd ar ei ôl. Roeddech chi'n cyfeirio at y ffaith fod hwn yn un o brif ymrwymiadau'r Prif Weinidog. Hoffwn i ofyn a oes asesiad o'r effaith ar hawliau plant wedi cael ei wneud ynglŷn â'r ymrwymiad hwn, ac os felly, a gaiff hwnnw ei gyhoeddi?

Ac yn olaf, o ran y lleoliadau y tu allan i'r sir, y tu allan i'r wlad, unwaith eto, nid oes neb yn dymuno gweld plant yn cael eu lleoli ymhell oddi wrth eu cynefin a'u cydnabod. Ond cyn belled ag yr wyf i'n deall y sefyllfa, nid oes gennym ni'r lleoliadau amgen ar gyfer rhai o'r plant hyn. Nid oes gennym ddigon o leoliadau diogel, nid oes gennym ddigon o gymorth diogelwch isel, neu ddigon o gefnogaeth i blant a phobl ifanc sydd â phroblemau emosiynol. Ac ni all hyn fod yn fater i awdurdodau lleol yn unig; mae hyn yn rhywbeth y mae'n rhaid i'r Llywodraeth arwain arno, oherwydd ni allan nhw gynllunio ar gyfer hynny ar eu liwt eu hunain. Felly, hoffwn i wybod beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud. Holwyd y Gweinidog Iechyd ynglŷn â hyn yr wythnos diwethaf yn y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl ifanc ac Addysg. Beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i sicrhau bod y lleoliadau hynny ar gael, i osgoi gorfod anfon plant mor bell o'u cynefin? Diolch.


I thank Lynne Neagle for those questions. I've also visited the young offenders unit at Parc prison, and I think the fact that 40 per cent of those young people placed there have been formerly looked after is an absolute reason why we have to do something about this. And that’s why we're taking action, for that very sort of reason, because that is the consequence of the care system as we've been running it so far. So, I feel deeply committed to trying to stop that sort of thing happening. And, really, that’s why we're doing what we're doing.

I know Lynne Neagle says that she’s uneasy about the setting of targets or expectation of reductions—whatever expression we use. And again, as I did with Helen Mary Jones, I'd like to reassure her that this setting of targets is being done by the local authorities—they are setting their own targets. We are going along to support them and discuss it with them. And the whole purpose of doing it is to do it in a co-productive way. I think further along in her statement she said she felt that it hadn't been done in a co-productive way, so I'd be really interested if she could perhaps explain that to me in more detail, because, certainly, the intention has been for the officials from Welsh Government to work with the local authorities in a co-productive way to come forward with something that is jointly accepted. And with the majority of local authorities, that has happened. So, I'd be grateful if she would discuss that with me.

In the care crisis report, yes, absolutely, I know that there is no one simple explanation as to why there had been this big rise in children coming into care. And I think we'd all agree that it’s a whole mass of reasons, including austerity and poverty and many, many things that you can't pin down to one thing. There isn't, as she says, a simple answer. So, what we can do is do our best to prevent that happening by doing what we can to prevent those children coming into care, stop them coming in, and to help some of the other children to be reunited with their families, to prevent the re-entering of care. For example, in terms of extra resources—which I think she mentioned further on—we have put this £2.3 million into the adoption services, which is tremendously important and has been so welcomed by the sector, acknowledging the huge need there is for support to be given after adoption actually takes place in order to prevent re-entry into the care system, which does sometimes happen when adoptive parents take on very difficult, damaged children. So, I think that's a huge step that this has finally been acknowledged and money has gone in and that money is to support the adoption services.

To go on further with her questions, who was responsible for the risk assessing, well, the local authorities are risk assessing while they're doing things all the time. We are not trying to take away anything from local authorities; we want to help support them to achieve the Wales-wide aim of trying to reduce the number of children who are coming in. We have agreed that there would be regular visits and regular monitoring by the Welsh Government. I repeat the co-production. Perhaps I could have a discussion with her about how she would see children’s rights impact assessments and how she would see those operating in these sorts of circumstances.

And, absolutely, local authorities are placing children out of county and out of country because the places are absolutely not available in Wales. One of the things that we are doing is trying to get the children's agenda on the agenda for the regional partnership boards in order to develop facilities within Wales, and also the ICF fund, which is also being used to develop facilities. Some regions have got plans that have been agreed in order to try to fill in the gaps that undoubtedly exist. She's absolutely right: we have to put more resources in. We are providing resources via those boards. Some regions have already started them.

So, I don't think we should get really too hung up on the numbers thing. It's an overall effort that we want to try to reduce the numbers of children in care and I think what we must do is look at it in an overall way in terms of trying to get a movement in this field, which as I say is rapidly escalating.

Rwy'n diolch i Lynne Neagle am y cwestiynau hynny. Rwyf innau hefyd wedi ymweld â'r uned troseddwyr ifanc yng ngharchar y Parc, ac rwy'n credu bod y ffaith fod 40 y cant o'r bobl ifanc a leolwyd yno yn arfer derbyn gofal yn rheswm pendant pam mae'n rhaid inni wneud rhywbeth ynglŷn â hyn. A dyna pam rydym ni'n cymryd camau, am yr union reswm hwnnw, oherwydd dyna ganlyniad y system ofal yr ydym ni wedi bod yn ei rhedeg hyd yn hyn. Felly, rwy'n teimlo'n ymroddedig iawn i geisio atal peth fel hyn rhag digwydd. Ac, mewn gwirionedd, dyna pam rydym ni'n gwneud yr hyn a wnawn ni.

Gwn fod Lynne Neagle yn dweud ei bod yn anesmwyth ynglŷn â gosod targedau neu ddisgwyliadau o ran gostyngiadau—beth bynnag fo'r mynegiant a ddefnyddiwn. Ac unwaith eto, fel y gwnes i gyda Helen Mary Jones, hoffwn ei sicrhau hi y bydd yr awdurdodau lleol yn gosod y targedau hyn—maen nhw'n gosod eu targedau eu hunain. Rydym am fynd atyn nhw i'w cefnogi nhw a thrafod hynny gyda nhw. A holl ddiben gwneud hyn yw ei wneud mewn ffordd gyd-gynhyrchiol. Rwy'n credu ei bod hi ymhellach yn ei datganiad wedi dweud ei bod yn teimlo nad oedd hyn wedi cael ei wneud mewn ffordd gyd-gynhyrchiol. Felly byddwn i'n falch iawn pe gallai hi egluro hynny'n fanylach, oherwydd, yn sicr, y bwriad fu i swyddogion o Lywodraeth Cymru weithio gyda'r awdurdodau lleol mewn modd cyd-gynhyrchiol ar gyfer cyflwyno rhywbeth sy'n dderbyniol ar y cyd. A chyda'r rhan fwyaf o awdurdodau lleol, mae hynny wedi digwydd. Felly, byddwn i'n ddiolchgar pe byddai hi'n trafod hynny gyda mi.

Yn yr adroddiad ar yr argyfwng o ran gofal, ie, yn hollol, gwn nad oes unrhyw esboniad syml ynghylch pam y cafwyd y cynnydd mawr yn nifer y plant sy'n cael eu derbyn mewn gofal. Ac rwy'n credu y byddem ni i gyd yn cytuno fod yna doreth o resymau, gan gynnwys cyni a thlodi a llawer, llawer o bethau na allwch chi eu cyfyngu nhw i un peth. Nid oes ateb syml, fel y mae hi'n dweud. Felly, yr hyn y gallwn ni ei wneud yw gwneud ein gorau i atal hynny rhag digwydd drwy wneud popeth o fewn ein gallu i atal y plant sy'n cael eu derbyn i ofal, eu hatal rhag dod i mewn, a helpu rhai o'r plant eraill i gael eu hailuno â'u teuluoedd, i'w hatal rhag ailymuno â gofal. Er enghraifft, o ran adnoddau ychwanegol—y credaf iddi sôn amdanyn nhw ymhellach ymlaen—rydym wedi rhoi'r £2.3 miliwn hwn i'r gwasanaethau mabwysiadu. Mae hyn yn eithriadol o bwysig a chafwyd croeso iddo gan y sector, gan gydnabod yr angen dirfawr am roi cymorth ar ôl mabwysiadu er mwyn atal ailymuno â'r system gofal, sy'n digwydd weithiau pan fydd rhieni sy'n mabwysiadu yn ymgymryd â phlant anufudd ac anystywallt iawn. Felly, rwy'n credu bod hwn yn gam enfawr a gafodd ei gydnabod o'r diwedd a bod arian wedi cael ei wario a bod arian i gefnogi'r gwasanaethau mabwysiadu.

I fwrw ymlaen ymhellach gyda'i chwestiynau hi, pwy oedd yn gyfrifol am yr asesiad o'r risgiau, wel, mae'r awdurdodau lleol yn asesu risg drwy'r amser wrth wneud pethau. Nid ydym yn ceisio cymryd unrhyw beth oddi ar yr awdurdodau lleol; rydym yn awyddus i helpu i'w cefnogi nhw i gyflawni'r nod ledled Cymru, sef ceisio lleihau nifer y plant sy'n dod i mewn. Rydym wedi cytuno y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymweld yn rheolaidd ac yn monitro'n rheolaidd. Rwy'n codi cyd-gynhyrchiad eto. Efallai y gallwn i gael trafodaeth â hi ynglŷn â sut y byddai hi'n gweld asesiadau o'r effaith ar hawliau plant a sut y byddai hi'n gweld y rhain yn gweithredu mewn amgylchiadau fel hyn.

Ac, yn sicr, mae awdurdodau lleol yn lleoli plant y tu allan i'r sir a thu allan i'r wlad am nad oes lleoedd ar gael yng Nghymru o gwbl. Un o'r pethau yr ydym ni'n ei wneud yw ceisio sicrhau bod yr agenda blant ar agenda'r byrddau partneriaeth rhanbarthol er mwyn datblygu cyfleusterau yng Nghymru, a hefyd y gronfa ICF, sy'n cael ei defnyddio hefyd i ddatblygu cyfleusterau. Mae gan rai rhanbarthau gynlluniau y cytunwyd arnyn nhw i geisio llenwi'r bylchau sy'n sicr yn bodoli. Mae hi'n hollol iawn: mae'n rhaid inni ddarparu mwy o adnoddau. Rydym yn darparu adnoddau drwy'r byrddau hyn. Mae rhai rhanbarthau eisoes wedi cychwyn arnyn nhw.

Felly, nid wyf yn credu y dylem ofidio'n ormodol am y rhifau. Ymdrech gyffredinol yw hon, sef ein bod ni'n ceisio lleihau nifer y plant sydd mewn gofal, a chredaf mai'r hyn sy'n rhaid i ni ei wneud yw edrych ar hyn mewn ffordd gyffredinol o ran ceisio cael ysgogiad yn y maes hwn, sydd fel rwy'n dweud yn prysur waethygu.


We welcome this statement made here today. Things clearly need to change. As said in previous other statements, the number of children under the supervision of local authorities seems to rise every year, and I am interested to know what you think the reasons are for this worrying increase. You've already cited austerity and poverty, but there are many, many other questions that need to be asked. Is it a sign, for instance, of a lack of parenting skills? Are parents getting younger and can't cope? Or is it that we expect higher standards of parents than we did, say, 15 to 20 years ago? My understanding is that this increase is evident across the UK and not just here in Wales. I would welcome your thoughts on that point.

We are where we are, and in terms of those children already being looked after, they will have suffered abuse or neglect and will probably have particular needs that need to be addressed in terms of education, development and emotional support. And they may also possibly have further to go and more to do to get to the same place as their peers from traditional family backgrounds. Any foster parents or prospective adoptive parents will also need a lot of support to make the placement a success. Is that support in place and does it work? It must be heartbreaking for the child and the family if a placement breaks down. Are there any figures available on children returning to a care setting after a placement with a family?

I completely agree that the focus must now be on prevention and local authorities must move from reacting to prevention and early intervention. I congratulate you and our social services on this change of approach. However, every week in this Chamber we hear how hard-pressed, underfunded and under-resourced our local authorities are. Are you confident that the professional staff have the capacity and support that they need to make this change happen, and the numbers of staff, support staff and also the emotional support they need to deal with some difficult issues? I have real concerns that we may be expecting too much in too short a time and end up not getting the outcomes we need for the children concerned, and that has to be the focus.

Finally, I'd like to raise the matter of special guardianship orders. Have you any figures on whether the use of these is increasing? Are the children subject to these orders still classed as 'looked after'? If not, how are their outcomes recorded? Thank you, Minister. 

Rydym ni'n croesawu'r datganiad hwn a wnaed yma heddiw. Yn amlwg, mae angen i bethau newid. Fel y dywedwyd mewn datganiadau eraill o'r blaen, mae'n ymddangos bod nifer y plant dan oruchwyliaeth awdurdodau lleol yn codi bob blwyddyn, a hoffwn i wybod beth, yn eich barn chi, yw'r rhesymau am y cynnydd hwn sy'n peri pryder. Rydych chi eisoes wedi nodi cyni a thlodi, ond mae llawer, llawer o gwestiynau eraill y mae angen eu gofyn. A yw hyn yn arwydd, er enghraifft, o ddiffyg sgiliau rhianta? A yw rhieni'n mynd yn iau ac yn methu ymdopi? Ynteu a ydym ni'n disgwyl safonau uwch gan rieni nag oeddem ni, dyweder, 15 i 20 mlynedd yn ôl? Fy nealltwriaeth i yw bod y cynnydd hwn yn amlwg yn digwydd ledled y DU ac nid yn unig yma yng Nghymru. Byddwn i'n croesawu eich sylwadau ynglŷn â'r pwynt hwnnw.

Rydym ni yn y sefyllfa hon heddiw, ac o ran y plant hynny sydd eisoes yn derbyn gofal, fe fyddan nhw wedi dioddef camdriniaeth neu esgeulustod ac mae'n debyg y bydd ganddyn nhw anghenion penodol y mae angen mynd i'r afael â nhw o ran addysg, datblygiad a chymorth emosiynol. Efallai y bydd ganddyn nhw hefyd fwy o waith i'w wneud i gyrraedd yr un man â'u cyfoedion o gefndiroedd teuluol traddodiadol. Bydd angen llawer o gymorth hefyd ar unrhyw rieni maeth neu ddarpar rieni sy'n mabwysiadu i sicrhau bod y lleoliad yn llwyddiannus. A yw'r cymorth hwnnw ar gael ac a yw'n gweithio? Mae'n rhaid ei bod yn dorcalonnus i'r plentyn a'r teulu os yw'r lleoliad yn methu. A oes unrhyw ffigurau ar gael ar gyfer plant sy'n dychwelyd i leoliad gofal ar ôl eu lleoli gyda theulu?

Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr fod yn rhaid canolbwyntio nawr ar atal ac mae'n rhaid i awdurdodau lleol symud oddi wrth adweithio i atal ac ymyrryd yn gynnar. Rwy'n eich llongyfarch chi a'n gwasanaethau cymdeithasol am y newid hwn yn y dull o weithredu. Eto i gyd, bob wythnos yn y Siambr hon rydym yn clywed pa mor anodd yw hi ar ein hawdurdodau lleol, heb ddigon o gyllid na digon o adnoddau. A ydych chi'n hyderus bod gan y staff proffesiynol y gallu a'r gefnogaeth sy'n angenrheidiol i sicrhau bod y newid hwn yn digwydd, a'r niferoedd staff, y staff cymorth a hefyd y cymorth emosiynol sy'n angenrheidiol i ymdrin â rhai materion anodd? Rwy'n poeni'n wirioneddol y gallem fod yn disgwyl gormod mewn rhy ychydig o amser ac na fyddwn ni, yn y pen draw, yn gweld y canlyniadau y mae eu hangen nhw arnom ni ar gyfer y plant dan sylw, ac mae'n rhaid canolbwyntio ar hynny.

Yn olaf, hoffwn i godi mater gorchmynion gwarchodaeth arbennig. A oes gennych chi unrhyw ffigurau ynghylch a yw'r defnydd o'r rhain yn cynyddu? A yw'r plant sy'n destun y gorchmynion hyn yn parhau i gael eu hystyried yn rhai 'sy'n derbyn gofal'? Os na, sut y cofnodir eu canlyniadau nhw? Diolch, Gweinidog.  


Yes, well, the Member is obviously absolutely right about the numbers rising every year and, yes, this is something that is certainly happening in England and Wales. It is an upward trend. And the reasons behind it I think are very complex. I think it does include poverty and deprivation, and the impact of the UK Government's austerity programme—I don't think we can discount that having an effect on our most vulnerable families, but I don't think it's the whole picture.

There's no doubt that local authorities are under pressure. The family court system is under considerable pressure and, certainly, some of the practices that have arisen in the family courts have increased the number of children who are staying in care. I did mention earlier in the statement about quite a trend, an upward trend, of giving care orders and placing the children at home. So, the children are under a care order but they're placed at home, and I believe we've got about 1,000 children like that in Wales, who are living with their families but actually are under a care order. But I want to pay tribute to what the local authorities are doing under great pressure, because they're doing a tremendous job and they are safeguarding vulnerable children and they are supporting families. But the reasons are very complex, I think, as Lynne Neagle said. There's a wide range of reasons, and we have got to try to work at them as we can. 

We certainly do need to give help to foster parents and adoptive parents, because they're absolutely key in this system. I mentioned earlier about this £2.3 million that we have given to the adoption service, and that is in order to help support adoptive parents so that we try to avoid the re-entry into care, because with children who are so damaged and have been through such difficult periods, whatever the adoptive parent does, there is additional help often needed. And so that is there, now, as a matter of right, the post-adoptive service. So I think that's a big step in progress. 

I don't think that we can say that we're expecting too much of the local authorities, because it's the lives of our children in Wales that are at stake. So, I think we have to aspire and we have to help them aspire. We could say all the time, 'It's austerity, we're all too pressed, we can't do anything, more and more children will come into care.' But you've got to try and do something, and I think it's right we have to try and do something on a governmental level. So, that's what we're trying to do by taking this forward.

Ie, wel, mae'r Aelod yn amlwg yn llygad ei lle ynghylch y niferoedd yn cynyddu bob blwyddyn, ac ydy, yn sicr mae hyn yn rhywbeth sy'n digwydd yng Nghymru ac yn Lloegr. Mae'r tueddiad ar i fyny. Ac mae'r rhesymau am hynny'n gymhleth iawn yn fy marn i. Rwy'n credu eu bod yn cynnwys tlodi ac amddifadedd, ac effaith rhaglen gyni Llywodraeth y DU—nid wyf yn credu y gallwn ni ddiystyru bod hynny'n cael effaith ar ein teuluoedd mwyaf bregus, ond nid wyf i'n credu mai hwnnw yw'r darlun cyfan.

Nid oes amheuaeth bod awdurdodau lleol dan bwysau. Mae'r system llysoedd teulu dan bwysau sylweddol ac, yn sicr, mae rhai o'r arferion sydd wedi codi yn y llysoedd teulu wedi cynyddu nifer y plant sy'n aros mewn gofal. Roeddwn i'n sôn yn gynharach yn y datganiad am duedd fawr, tuedd gynyddol, i roi gorchmynion gofal a lleoli'r plant yn eu cartrefi. Felly, mae'r plant dan orchymyn gofal ond maen nhw'n cael eu lleoli gartref, ac rwy'n credu bod gennym tua 1,000 o blant fel hyn yng Nghymru, sy'n byw gyda'u teuluoedd ond sydd mewn gwirionedd dan orchymyn gofal. Ond hoffwn roi teyrnged i'r hyn y mae'r awdurdodau lleol yn ei wneud, a hynny dan bwysau mawr, oherwydd maen nhw'n gwneud gwaith aruthrol ac yn diogelu plant sy'n agored i niwed ac yn cefnogi teuluoedd. Ond mae'r rhesymau'n gymhleth iawn, rwy'n credu, fel y dywedodd Lynne Neagle. Ceir amrywiaeth eang o resymau, ac mae'n rhaid inni geisio gweithio arnyn nhw fel y gallwn ni.

Yn sicr, mae angen rhoi cymorth i rieni maeth a rhieni sy'n mabwysiadu, oherwydd maen nhw'n gwbl allweddol yn y system hon. Roeddwn i'n sôn yn gynharach am y £2.3 miliwn a roddwyd i'r gwasanaeth mabwysiadu, a hynny i helpu i gefnogi rhieni sy'n mabwysiadu fel ein bod ni'n ceisio osgoi plant yn cael eu haildderbyn i ofal. Oherwydd gyda phlant sydd wedi cael eu niweidio yn y fath fodd ac sydd wedi bod drwy'r fath gyfnodau adfydus, beth bynnag a wna'r rhiant sy'n mabwysiadu, yn aml bydd angen cymorth ychwanegol. Ac felly mae hynny, bellach, yn fater o hawl, sef y gwasanaeth ôl-fabwysiadu. Rwy'n credu bod hwnnw'n gam mawr ymlaen.

Nid wyf i'n credu y gallwn ddweud ein bod ni'n disgwyl gormod gan yr awdurdodau lleol, oherwydd bywydau ein plant ni yng Nghymru sydd yn y fantol. Felly mae'n rhaid inni fod yn uchelgeisiol ac mae'n rhaid inni eu helpu nhw i fod yn uchelgeisiol. Digon hawdd yw dweud drwy'r amser, 'Cyni sydd ar fai, mae pawb dan bwysau, ni allwn wneud dim byd, a bydd mwy o blant eto'n dod i dderbyn gofal.' Ond mae'n rhaid i rywun geisio gwneud rhywbeth, ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n iawn inni geisio gwneud rhywbeth ar lefel lywodraethol. Felly, dyna'r hyn yr ydym ni'n ceisio ei wneud drwy fwrw ymlaen â hyn.

The Minister has been kind enough to refer to my role as chair of the ministerial advisory group, and I remind Members now of my position there. 

Deputy Minister, I think it is important—we've heard really insightful questions and comments, and inevitably they've looked at the challenges, but we should remind everyone that outcomes are good when we get care right, and there are foster carers, there are people running residential homes, there are social workers and there are people involved in the system in health and in the councils as well, politically, that are really taking some good decisions and delivering high-quality care as well as, obviously, this general situation we're in. And I don't think we can ignore the fact that, in the 20 years of devolution, we have roughly doubled the number of children we take into care. And we've not done that in a planned way—it has happened. Members have already said it's happened in other parts of the UK as well, but we do need to look at the current balance and whether we're getting it right—do we shift more to educare and even earlier in the cycle, where families need that early intervention and support with parenting skills, for instance, as Mandy referred to earlier? 

I think another key thing that has to be looked at is the lack of consistency across the local authorities. Now, local authorities with roughly the same socioeconomic position should be in a band that is comparable to others in terms of the proportion of children they're taking into care. And if there's a very significant difference between like counties, then I think that needs explanation. There may be an explanation, but we do need to ask for it.

I think there needs to be more co-operation with the courts. That's clearly part of the dynamic at play here, and that comes also into professional practice, the right social worker being in the court when the case is heard—all these things need to be done if we're going to get a more balanced outcome and appropriate interventions. 

I was also pleased—. I think it was Helen Mary that raised the issue of corporate parenting. This is all agencies; you've referred to the public—I can't remember what they're called now—the boards, anyway—the new regional public boards. That is an important, I think, forum for us, and it's all the agencies, the courts, the police, health, education, housing—all these agencies need to come together. But the political dimension needs to be there—what we are doing, but also our colleagues at local government level, both the chair of the key scrutiny committees and the cabinet members, and we need to draw all the politicians active in this area, I think, into some sort of network.

Can I finally just inform Members, really, that the Public Accounts Committee's done some excellent work looking at the current situation of looked-after children? And they have said that the ministerial advisory group should be more public-facing and, indeed, we are doing that in terms of the reports that we've produced and our minutes becoming available on the website. But also, I was pleased that you agree that we should commit to issuing an annual report and having an annual debate in the Assembly, because I do think that's going to be a key part of ensuring that this important subject remains central in the priorities of all the political parties here, and all have said that this is not an issue that divides us—it has consensus—but it needs an application as well.  

Mae'r Gweinidog wedi bod yn ddigon caredig i gyfeirio at fy ngwaith i yn cadeirio'r grŵp cynghori gweinidogol, ac rwy'n atgoffa'r Aelodau nawr am fy safle i yno.

Dirprwy Weinidog, rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig—rydym wedi clywed cwestiynau a sylwadau craff iawn, ac mae'n anochel eu bod nhw wedi ystyried yr heriau. Ond dylem  atgoffa pawb fod canlyniadau da yn digwydd pan fyddwn ni'n llwyddo gyda gofal. Mae yna bobl sy'n ofalwyr maeth, pobl yn rhedeg cartrefi preswyl, gweithwyr cymdeithasol a phobl sy'n rhan o'r system iechyd ac yn y cynghorau hefyd, yn wleidyddol, sydd mewn gwirionedd yn gwneud penderfyniadau da iawn ac yn darparu gofal o ansawdd uchel hefyd, yn amlwg, yn y sefyllfa gyffredinol hon yr ydym ni ynddi. Ac nid wyf i o'r farn y gallwn ni anwybyddu'r ffaith ein bod ni, yn yr 20 mlynedd o ddatganoli, wedi dyblu nifer y plant, yn fras, sy'n cael eu derbyn mewn gofal. Ac nid ydym wedi gwneud hynny mewn ffordd a gynlluniwyd—fe ddigwyddodd hynny. Mae'r Aelodau eisoes wedi dweud bod hyn wedi digwydd mewn rhannau eraill o'r DU hefyd. Ond mae angen inni edrych ar y cydbwysedd presennol ac a ydym ni'n gwneud pethau'n iawn—a ydym ni'n symud yn fwy tuag at addysgofal a hynny hyd yn oed yn fwy cynnar yn y cylch, pan fydd angen i deuluoedd gael yr ymyrraeth gynnar a'r gefnogaeth honno gyda sgiliau rhianta, er enghraifft, fel y soniodd Mandy yn gynharach?

Rwy'n credu mai peth allweddol arall y mae'n rhaid edrych arno yw'r diffyg cysondeb ar draws yr awdurdodau lleol. Nawr, fe ddylai awdurdodau lleol sydd â'r un sefyllfa economaidd gymdeithasol yn fras fod mewn band y gellir ei gymharu ag eraill sydd ynddo o ran cyfran y plant y maen nhw'n eu derbyn i ofal. Ac os oes gwahaniaeth arwyddocaol iawn rhwng siroedd sy'n debyg i'w gilydd, yna credaf fod angen cael esboniad am hynny. Efallai fod yna esboniad, ond mae angen inni ofyn amdano.

Rwy'n credu bod angen mwy o gydweithio gyda'r llysoedd. Mae hynny'n amlwg yn rhan o'r deinamig sydd ar waith yma, ac mae hynny'n cyffwrdd hefyd ag arfer proffesiynol, gyda'r gweithiwr cymdeithasol iawn yn y llys pan glywir yr achos—mae angen gwneud yr holl bethau hyn os ydym yn dymuno cael canlyniad mwy cytbwys ac ymyriadau priodol.

Roeddwn i'n falch hefyd—. Rwy'n credu mai Helen Mary gododd mater rhianta corfforaethol. Dyma'r asiantaethau i gyd; rydych chi wedi cyfeirio at y rhai cyhoeddus—nid wyf i'n gallu cofio'r hyn y maen nhw'n cael eu galw nawr—y byrddau, beth bynnag—y byrddau cyhoeddus rhanbarthol newydd. Mae hwnnw'n fforwm pwysig i ni, rwy'n credu, a'r holl asiantaethau, y llysoedd, yr heddlu, iechyd, addysg, tai—mae angen i'r holl asiantaethau hyn ddod at ei gilydd. Ond mae angen i'r dimensiwn gwleidyddol fod yno—yr hyn yr ydym ni'n ei wneud, ond hefyd ein cymheiriaid ar lefel Llywodraeth Leol, cadeiryddion y pwyllgorau craffu allweddol ac aelodau'r cabinet fel ei gilydd, ac mae angen inni dynnu'r holl wleidyddion sy'n weithredol yn y maes hwn, yn fy marn i, i ryw fath o rwydwaith.

Yn olaf, a gaf i roi gwybod i'r Aelodau, mewn gwirionedd, fod y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus wedi gwneud gwaith ardderchog wrth edrych ar sefyllfa bresennol y plant sy'n derbyn gofal? Ac maen nhw wedi dweud y dylai'r grŵp cynghori gweinidogol wynebu'r cyhoedd yn fwy aml ac, yn wir, rydym ni yn gwneud hynny o ran yr adroddiadau a gyhoeddwyd gennym a'r cofnodion sydd ar y wefan. Ond hefyd, roeddwn i'n falch eich bod chi'n cytuno y dylem ymrwymo i gyhoeddi adroddiad blynyddol a chael dadl flynyddol yn y Cynulliad. Credaf y bydd hynny'n rhan allweddol o sicrhau bod y pwnc pwysig hwn yn parhau i fod yn ganolog ym mlaenoriaethau'r holl bleidiau gwleidyddol sydd yma, ac mae pob un wedi dweud nad yw hwn yn fater sy'n achos rhaniadau—mae yma gonsensws—ond mae angen ei gymhwyso hefyd.  


I thank David Melding very much for his contribution, and I'd like to reiterate my thanks for all the work that he has always done over many years, and is doing now on the MAG. So, thank you very much for that.

I think he's absolutely right that the outcomes are good when they get care right, when we've exhausted every possibility for the children staying at home, and then we want to provide them with the best care that they possibly can have. And if we get it right, we know that the outcomes will be good, and we know that we need to put in extra things to make sure that that happens. But I have absolutely no doubt that he's right about that.

The fact that the number has doubled in 20 years, I think, again, that is something that is concerning, because I don't think we really understand why it's doubled in 20 years. As we've said here today, in all the very good contributions there have been, there is absolutely no one way of saying, 'This is why that has happened.' So, I think that is something that we need to look at very closely.

I think he's right that we do need more help with parenting skills, and I think that that's something we are actually looking at quite closely in looking at removing the defence of reasonable punishment. That's something that we are considering and looking at across the whole of Wales to see where there are gaps in terms of helping with parenting skills. But I think one of the good developments, which I know that David Melding has been involved with, is the development of the reflect programme, and I understand there is a reflect project in every region in Wales now, which is for a woman who's had one child taken into care and now is having a chance to have help and reflect, and following that, taking the child into care. I think that's a very good development. The lack of consistency in different local authorities and why there are differences between them is, again, something that should be looked at.

Finally, this issue about politicians—yes, I think it is all our responsibility as politicians. Political leaders in local authorities are seen as the corporate parents, and I know that one of my predecessors in this job, Gwenda Thomas, who certainly has got a reputation to follow—. I was told, when I went into one local authority, that Gwenda Thomas said, when she went into that local authority, that she expected the officers to know the name of every child who was being looked after in that authority. And I think we have a role as politicians, and I know that David Melding has often said that perhaps we're the grandparents of them, the corporate grandparents of the children who we're looking after. And I think we do need to have this awareness and responsibility as politicians that these children are our children in Wales, and that's why I think it's so admirable, really, that the First Minister has put this right on the top of his agenda, which means that the work that David Melding is doing and the work that I'm doing is of absolute crucial importance. So, thank you for those comments, and we'll continue to work together.  

Diolch yn fawr iawn i David Melding am ei gyfraniad, a hoffwn i ddiolch eto am yr holl waith y mae bob amser wedi'i wneud ar hyd y blynyddoedd ac y mae'n ei wneud nawr ar Grŵp Cynghori'r Gweinidog. Felly, diolch yn fawr iawn am hynny.

Rwy'n credu ei fod yn hollol gywir i ddweud bod y canlyniadau'n dda pan fyddant yn cael y gofal yn gywir, pan fyddwn wedi archwilio pob posibilrwydd o ran y plant yn aros gartref, ac yna rydym eisiau rhoi'r gofal gorau posibl iddyn nhw. Ac os byddwn ni'n cael hyn yn gywir, gwyddom y bydd y canlyniadau'n dda, a gwyddom fod angen inni gynnwys pethau ychwanegol i wneud yn siŵr bod hynny'n digwydd. Ond nid oes gennyf unrhyw amheuaeth o gwbl ei fod yn iawn ynglŷn â hynny.

Mae'r ffaith bod y nifer wedi dyblu dros 20 mlynedd, rwy'n credu, unwaith eto, mae hynny'n rhywbeth sy'n peri pryder, oherwydd ni chredaf ein bod ni'n deall yn iawn pam ei fod wedi dyblu dros 20 mlynedd. Fel y dywedwyd yma heddiw, yn yr holl gyfraniadau da iawn sydd wedi bod, mae'n gwbl amhosibl dweud, 'Dyma'r rheswm pam mae hynny wedi digwydd.' Felly, credaf fod hynny'n rhywbeth y mae angen inni edrych arno'n ofalus iawn.

Rwy'n credu ei fod ef yn iawn i ddweud bod angen mwy o gymorth arnom gyda sgiliau rhianta, a chredaf fod hynny'n rhywbeth yr ydym ni'n rhoi sylw manwl iddo wrth ystyried dileu'r amddiffyniad o gosb resymol. Mae hynny'n rhywbeth yr ydym ni'n ei ystyried ac yn rhoi sylw iddo ledled Cymru gyfan i weld lle mae bylchau o ran helpu gyda sgiliau rhianta. Ond credaf mai un o'r datblygiadau da, y gwn fod David Melding wedi bod ynghlwm wrtho, yw datblygu'r rhaglen fyfyrio. Deallaf fod prosiect myfyrio ym mhob rhanbarth yng Nghymru erbyn hyn, sydd ar gyfer gwraig y cafodd hi un plentyn wedi'i gymryd i ofal, ond bellach mae ganddi'r cyfle i gael help ac i fyfyrio, ac yn dilyn hynny, gymryd y plentyn i ofal. Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n ddatblygiad da iawn. Mae'r diffyg cysondeb mewn gwahanol awdurdodau lleol a pham mae gwahaniaethau rhyngddynt, unwaith eto, yn rhywbeth y dylid ei ystyried.

Yn olaf, mae'r mater hwn am wleidyddion—ie, credaf ei fod yn gyfrifoldeb arnom ni fel gwleidyddion. Mae arweinwyr gwleidyddol mewn awdurdodau lleol yn cael eu hystyried yn rhieni corfforaethol, a gwn fod un o fy rhagflaenwyr yn y swydd hon, Gwenda Thomas, yn sicr wedi cael enw da i'w ddilyn—. Soniwyd wrthyf, pan es i un awdurdod lleol, fod Gwenda Thomas wedi dweud, pan aeth hi i mewn i'r awdurdod lleol hwnnw, ei bod yn disgwyl i'r swyddogion wybod enw pob plentyn a oedd yn derbyn gofal yn yr awdurdod hwnnw. Ac rwy'n credu bod gennym ni swyddogaeth fel gwleidyddion, a gwn fod David Melding wedi dweud yn aml efallai mai ni yw'r neiniau a theidiau, y neiniau a'r teidiau corfforaethol y plant yr ydym ni'n gofalu amdanynt. Ac rwy'n credu bod angen inni gael yr ymwybyddiaeth a'r cyfrifoldeb hwn fel gwleidyddion mai ein plant ni yw'r plant hyn yng Nghymru. A dyna pam y credaf ei bod mor ganmoladwy, mewn gwirionedd, fod y Prif Weinidog wedi rhoi hyn ar frig ei agenda, sy'n golygu bod y gwaith y mae David Melding yn ei wneud, ac mae'r gwaith yr wyf i'n ei wneud yn hanfodol bwysig. Felly, diolch am y sylwadau hynny, a byddwn yn parhau i weithio gyda'n gilydd.    


I'm not going to repeat anything that's already been said. We know that the numbers of looked-after children are rising steadfastly, and there are many, many reasons for that. But one of the numbers that does sort of stand out a little bit is Powys, where there's been a 50 per cent increase from April 2017. So, it was 160 children and now, in March, it's 244. Now, that's a fair escalation, and I'm sure there were reasons behind that. The reason I picked that particular one out, apart from it being in my area, is that there was a damning report by Care Inspectorate Wales in 2017, and it said that the children in the county were being placed 'at risk'.

Now, I know that this week they've announced a new framework and that framework is going to be underpinned by more money, because part of the issue clearly was a lack of spending and, therefore, lack of priority in this area. So, that's good news—and I'm going to be positive here—that that was recognised, even if it wasn't Powys council who recognised it themselves. So, I suppose the question here is: how are we going to know, in advance, not after things have gone wrong, that looked-after children are high up, not just this agenda but the agenda of local authorities and other people who are supposed to be delivering those changes positively for them? And could I suggest that, if we insisted that local authorities had to make a declaration or an announcement within their given authority annually and that that report had to become public, at least people would have sight of it and perhaps the council would take some ownership of it, because it would have to be comprehensive and they would have to say how much money they were spending on it. And it might also help focus the minds of all those councillors and those corporate parents in those areas about the importance of looking after looked-after children.

Just finally, it's a really, really good move here from the Assembly that looked-after children who leave care don't have to pay any council tax. So, it's a move in the right direction and, hopefully, it will help some to not end up back in care.

Dydw i ddim yn mynd i ailadrodd yr hyn sydd wedi cael ei ddweud yn barod. Gwyddom fod nifer y plant sy'n derbyn gofal yn cynyddu'n ddi-syfl, ac mae llawer iawn o resymau dros hynny. Ond un o'r niferoedd sy'n sefyll rhywfaint ar wahân yw Powys, lle bu cynnydd o 50 y cant ers Ebrill 2017. Felly, roedd yna 160 o blant ac erbyn hyn, ym mis Mawrth, mae yna 244. Nawr, mae'n gynnydd sylweddol, ac rwy'n siŵr bod rhesymau y tu ôl i hynny. Y rheswm dros ddewis yr un penodol hwnnw, ar wahân i'r ffaith ei fod yn fy ardal i, yw bod adroddiad damniol gan Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru yn 2017, a ddywedodd fod plant y Sir yn cael eu rhoi 'mewn perygl '.

Nawr, gwn eu bod wedi cyhoeddi fframwaith newydd yr wythnos hon, a bod y fframwaith hwnnw'n mynd i gael ei ategu gan fwy o arian, oherwydd yn amlwg roedd rhan o'r mater yn ymwneud â diffyg gwariant ac, felly, diffyg blaenoriaeth yn y maes hwn. Mae hynny'n newyddion da—ac rwy'n mynd i fod yn gadarnhaol yma—fod hynny wedi cael ei gydnabod, hyd yn oed os nad Cyngor Powys oedd wedi ei gydnabod ei hun. Felly, mae'n debyg mai'r cwestiwn yma yw: sut yr ydym ni'n mynd i wybod, ymlaen llaw, nid ar ôl i bethau fynd o chwith, bod plant mewn gofal yn uchel nid ar yr agenda hon yn unig ond ar agenda awdurdodau lleol a phobl eraill sydd i fod cyflwyno'r newidiadau hynny yn gadarnhaol ar eu cyfer? Ac a gaf i awgrymu, pe baem yn mynnu bod awdurdodau lleol yn gorfod gwneud datganiad neu gyhoeddiad o fewn eu hawdurdod penodol yn flynyddol a bod yn rhaid i'r adroddiad hwnnw fod yn gyhoeddus, o leiaf y byddai pobl yn cael golwg arno ac efallai y byddai'r Cyngor yn cymryd peth perchenogaeth ohono, oherwydd byddai'n rhaid iddo fod yn gynhwysfawr a byddai'n rhaid iddynt ddweud faint o arian yr oeddent yn ei wario arno. A gallai hefyd helpu i ganolbwyntio meddyliau'r holl gynghorwyr a'r rhieni corfforaethol hynny yn yr ardaloedd hynny ynghylch pwysigrwydd gofalu am blant sy'n derbyn gofal.

Yn olaf, mae'n newid gwirioneddol dda hwn gan y Cynulliad nad oes raid i blant sy'n derbyn gofal sy'n gadael gofal dalu unrhyw dreth gyngor. Felly, mae'n gam i'r cyfeiriad cywir a gobeithio y bydd yn helpu rhai i beidio â chael eu hunain yn ôl mewn gofal.

I thank Joyce Watson for those comments and for her comments about Powys, where there has been this rise that she's illustrated. She refers to the care inspectorate report, and I can assure her that we have been meeting with Powys and reinforcing the importance of having this new framework, and I think that that is what is progressing at the moment. But I think she's right about trying to emphasise that the safety of children and the importance of looked-after children should be high up and on the top of the agenda of local authorities, and I would be happy to discuss with her any way that she thinks that this could actually be done. And I'm very glad that she mentioned the council tax, because, obviously, that is another positive move forward, as there have been quite a few positive moves forward that have been carried out by David Melding's group. And just to say, in terms of a response about special guardianship, which I didn't reply to, the numbers of special guardianships have gone up, yes.

Diolch i Joyce Watson am y sylwadau hynny ac am ei sylwadau am Bowys, lle cafwyd y cynnydd hwn a ddefnyddiodd yn enghraifft. Mae'n cyfeirio at adroddiad yr Arolygiaeth Gofal, a gallaf ei sicrhau ein bod wedi bod yn cwrdd â Phowys ac yn pwysleisio pwysigrwydd cael y fframwaith newydd hwn, a chredaf mai dyna sy'n mynd rhagddo ar hyn o bryd. Ond credaf ei bod yn iawn wrth geisio pwysleisio y dylai diogelwch plant a phwysigrwydd plant sy'n derbyn gofal fod yn uchel ac ar frig agenda awdurdodau lleol, a byddwn i'n fwy na pharod i drafod â hi unrhyw ffordd y mae'n credu y gellid gweithredu hyn. Ac rwy'n falch iawn ei bod wedi sôn am y dreth gyngor, oherwydd, yn amlwg, mae hynny'n gam cadarnhaol arall ymlaen, gan fod cryn nifer o gamau cadarnhaol wedi'u cymryd gan grŵp David Melding. A dim ond i ddweud, o ran ymateb i warcheidiaeth arbennig, nad oeddwn wedi ymateb iddo, mae nifer y gwarchodaethau arbennig wedi cynyddu, ydynt.


Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Minister—Deputy Minister—I'm really pleased to hear you talking about reducing the number of children in care. The fact that there's been a 34 per cent increase in 15 years is really, really concerning. I'd like to know more about the variations that you're talking about. If there are areas of Wales where the rate of looked-after children is almost three times higher than in the north of Ireland, then I think we really need to know why.

I'm really concerned about the privatisation of looking after children. There are private companies in Wales that don't welcome scrutiny, they don't want councillors to visit the homes—in fact, they refuse visits—and there is a complete lack of transparency and a huge—a huge—profit motive. I've got a case on my books where the child is begging to go back home—begging—but that child is worth certainly £300,000 a year, and it could even be £0.5 million; they won't confirm it, because of the client confidentiality. And so that care home is never going to let that child go—never. I can't go to the children's commissioner, because it's an individual case; I can't go to you—I've tried, but it's an individual case, and—. Maybe the Youth Parliament can help, because these children need a voice. And the case I'm talking about—. Being an independent, I was lucky to have a bigger budget; I was able to employ a really experienced social worker full-time, and it took two months of work to find the paperwork to find that, basically, the child should never have been taken into care. Errors were made and information was not passed across. That case is still ongoing.

But, just to go back to the profit motive, I think it's scandalous. It's pleasing that the president of the family court is making this issue his No. 1 priority. For me, it's disappointing that six local authorities have not given targets, so I was wondering which local authorities they were.

I want to mention as well parental alienation. It affects so many mothers, fathers, grandparents and also parents of children in care. Again, we're back to the profit motive. Lots of people do a tremendous job, but I think that we cannot ignore the fact that these children in some circumstances represent bags of money, and I have parents knocking on my office door telling me that they're being alienated from their children. This issue really does need to be looked at.

In closing, I do want to emphasise I'm really concerned about the lack of scrutiny, the lack of transparency, with private companies making an absolute fortune. If we are the corporate grandparents, give us the opportunity to look after those children and to look after their interests. As it stands now, it's very, very difficult, and we're met with extreme hostility and, indeed, complaints.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Gweinidog—Dirprwy Weinidog—Rwy'n falch iawn o'ch clywed yn sôn am leihau nifer y plant mewn gofal. Mae'r ffaith fod cynnydd o 34 y cant wedi bod mewn 15 mlynedd yn peri pryder mawr. Hoffwn i wybod mwy am yr amrywiadau yr ydych chi'n sôn amdanynt. Os oes yna ardaloedd o Gymru lle mae cyfradd y plant sy'n derbyn gofal bron dair gwaith yn uwch nag yng Ngogledd Iwerddon, yna credaf fod gwir angen inni wybod pam.

Rwy'n pryderu'n fawr am breifateiddio gwasanaethau gofalu am blant. Mae yna gwmnïau preifat yng Nghymru nad ydynt yn croesawu craffu, nad ydynt eisiau i gynghorwyr ymweld â'r cartrefi—yn wir, maen nhw'n gwrthod ymweliadau—ac mae diffyg tryloywder llwyr a chymhelliant enfawr—enfawr i wneud elw. Mae gen i achos ar fy llyfrau lle mae'r plentyn yn ymbil am gael mynd yn ôl adref—yn ymbil—ond mae'r plentyn hwnnw'n werth £300,000 y flwyddyn yn sicr, a gallai fod yn £0.5 miliwn hyd yn oed; nid ydynt yn barod i'w gadarnhau, oherwydd cyfrinachedd y cleient. Felly, nid yw'r cartref gofal hwnnw byth yn mynd i adael i'r plentyn hwnnw fynd—byth. Alla i ddim mynd at y Comisiynydd Plant, oherwydd mae'n achos unigol; alla i ddim mynd atoch chi—rydw i wedi ceisio, ond mae'n achos unigol, ac—. Efallai y gall y Senedd Ieuenctid helpu, oherwydd mae angen llais ar y plant hyn. A'r achos yr wyf yn sôn amdano—. A minnau'n annibynnol, roeddwn yn ffodus o gael cyllideb fwy; llwyddais i gyflogi gweithiwr cymdeithasol profiadol iawn yn llawn-amser, a chymerodd ddau fis o waith i ddod o hyd i'r gwaith papur a chanfod, yn y bôn, na ddylai'r plentyn byth fod wedi cael ei gymryd i mewn i ofal. Cafodd camgymeriadau eu gwneud ac nid oedd gwybodaeth yn cael ei throsglwyddo. Mae'r achos yn dal i fynd rhagddo.

Ond, i ddychwelyd at gymhelliad elw, rwyf i o'r farn ei fod yn warthus. Mae'n braf bod llywydd y llys teulu yn gwneud y mater hwn yn brif flaenoriaeth iddo. I mi, mae'n siomedig nad yw chwe awdurdod lleol wedi cyflwyno targedau, felly tybed pa awdurdodau lleol oeddent.

Rwyf eisiau sôn hefyd am ddieithrio plentyn oddi wrth riant. Mae'n effeithio ar gynifer o famau, tadau, teidiau a neiniau a hefyd rieni plant mewn gofal. Unwaith eto, mae'n mynd â ni yn ôl at y cymhelliad o wneud elw. Mae llawer o bobl yn gwneud gwaith rhagorol, ond credaf na allwn anwybyddu'r ffaith bod y plant hyn mewn rhai amgylchiadau'n cynrychioli llawer o arian, ac mae rhieni'n curo ar ddrws fy swyddfa yn dweud wrthyf eu bod yn cael eu dieithrio oddi wrth eu plant. Mae gwir angen ystyried y mater hwn.

Wrth gloi, rwyf eisiau pwysleisio fy mod yn pryderu'n fawr am y diffyg craffu, y diffyg tryloywder, gyda chwmnïau preifat yn gwneud ffortiwn. Os mai ni yw'r neiniau a'r teidiau corfforaethol, rhowch gyfle inni ofalu am y plant hynny yn wynebu gelyniaeth eithafol ac, yn wir, gwynion.

I thank Neil McEvoy for those comments. In terms of him asking who are the six local authorities, I don't think it would be appropriate for me to say who those local authorities were, because one of the things we're trying to do is to work in co-production with the local authorities and I want us to work together. So, I think it wouldn't be very helpful for me to name any local authority here today, so I've got no intention of doing that.

In terms of the variations, there are some quite considerable variations between different local authorities and that's one of the things that we're hoping to find out more about in the visits that we're doing, and particularly in the second round of visits. And I think that we will be able to ascertain whether there are particular issues in particular local authorities, which there may very well be. So, we are approaching it in that sort of way. I know that he mentioned the president of the family court, that he was pleased that Sir Andrew McFarlane was taking this very seriously, because I understand that he has said on record that it's his No. 1 priority to understand the rise in the number of care cases. And, although we've had no direct contact with him yet, the Welsh Government intends to liaise with Sir Andrew McFarlane to try to work and get try and get down to the bottom of this rise in cases.

In terms of private provision, what we're trying to do is to try to encourage provision by the local authorities directly and non-profit bodies—voluntary sector—to provide provision. But I do know that in some counties—I believe, actually, in Powys, which Joyce Watson may know—there are—. I believe it's true that there are 13 private establishments there and that there aren't any local children in those establishments. I believe that's correct, but, obviously, this is a situation that we need to look at.

Diolch i Neil McEvoy am y sylwadau hynny. O ran gofyn pwy yw'r chwe awdurdod lleol, ni chredaf y byddai'n briodol i mi ddweud pwy oedd yr awdurdodau lleol hynny, oherwydd un o'r pethau yr ydym yn ceisio ei wneud yw gweithio ar y cyd gyda'r awdurdodau lleol ac rwyf eisiau inni weithio gyda'n gilydd. Felly, yn fy marn i, ni fyddai'n ddefnyddiol imi enwi unrhyw awdurdod lleol yma heddiw, ac nid oes gennyf i unrhyw fwriad o wneud hynny.

O ran yr amrywiadau, mae rhai amrywiadau eithaf sylweddol rhwng gwahanol awdurdodau lleol ac mae hynny'n un o'r pethau yr ydym ni'n gobeithio canfod mwy amdano yn yr ymweliadau yr ydym ni'n eu cynnal, ac yn arbennig yn yr ail rownd o ymweliadau. A chredaf y gallwn ganfod a oes materion penodol  mewn awdurdodau lleol penodol, ac mae'n bosibl iawn fod hynny'n wir. Felly, rydym yn mynd ati yn y ffordd honno. Gwn iddo sôn am lywydd y llys teulu, ei fod yn falch bod Syr Andrew McFarlane yn cymryd hyn o ddifrif, oherwydd deallaf ei fod wedi dweud ar goedd mai ei brif flaenoriaeth yw deall y cynnydd yn nifer yr achosion gofal. Ac, er nad ydym ni wedi cael unrhyw gysylltiad uniongyrchol ag ef eto, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwriadu cysylltu â Syr Andrew McFarlane i geisio gweithio a mynd at wraidd y cynnydd hwn mewn achosion.

O ran darpariaeth breifat, yr hyn yr ydym ni'n ceisio'i wneud yw annog darpariaeth gan yr awdurdodau lleol yn uniongyrchol a rhai cyrff di-elw— y sector gwirfoddol—i gynnig darpariaeth. Ond gwn mewn rhai siroedd—ym Mhowys, mi gredaf, y mae'n bosibl bod Joyce Watson yn gwybod—bod—. Credaf ei fod yn wir fod 13 o sefydliadau preifat yno ac nad oes unrhyw blant lleol yn y sefydliadau hynny. Credaf fod hynny'n gywir, ond, yn amlwg, mae hon yn sefyllfa y mae angen inni edrych arni.


Thank you. Thank you very much, Deputy Minister.

Diolch. Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Weinidog.

6. Cynnig Cydsyniad Deddfwriaethol ar Fil y Cyfrifiad (Manylion Ffurflenni a Dileu Cosbau)
6. Legislative Consent Motion on the Census (Return Particulars and Removal of Penalties) Bill

Item 6 on our agenda this afternoon is the legislative consent motion on the Census (Return Particulars and Removal of Penalties) Bill, and therefore I call on the Minister for Finance and the Trefnydd to move the motion—Rebecca Evans.

Eitem 6 ar ein hagenda y prynhawn yma yw'r cynnig cydsyniad deddfwriaethol ar Fil y Cyfrifiad (Manylion Ffurflenni a Dileu Cosbau), ac felly galwaf ar y Gweinidog Cyllid a'r Trefnydd i gynnig y cynnig—Rebecca Evans.

Cynnig NDM7105 Rebecca Evans

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 29.6, yn cytuno y dylai Senedd y DU ystyried y darpariaethau ym Mil y Cyfrifiad (Manylion Ffurflenni a Dileu Cosbau) i’r graddau y maent yn dod o fewn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru.

Motion NDM7105 Rebecca Evans

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 29.6 agrees that provisions in the Census (Return Particulars and Removal of Penalties) Bill in so far as they fall within the legislative competence of the National Assembly for Wales, should be considered by the UK Parliament.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm pleased to have the opportunity to explain the background to this legislative consent motion in relation to the Census (Return Particulars and Removal of Penalties) Bill. The census provides a snapshot of the population in the United Kingdom every 10 years. It provides us with information about people, including their education, religion, ethnic background, working life and language, for example. National and local governments, community groups, charities and businesses use this information to make decisions to help them better serve communities and individuals in Wales.

The 2021 census White Paper, 'Help Shape our Future: The 2021 Census of Population and Housing in England and Wales' was laid before the National Assembly for Wales in December last year. The White Paper sets out the recommendations from the UK Statistics Authority for the content and conduct of the 2021 census. This included the proposal to ask new questions on sexual orientation and gender identity for those who are aged 16 or over. The purpose of the Bill, which extends to England, Wales and Northern Ireland, is to include sexual orientation and gender identity as particulars that may be required in the census and to make the provision of this information voluntary. Collecting information about sexual orientation and gender identity will help us and others monitor service provision in line with the Equality Act 2010. It will also be important data for public bodies to support them in their duties under the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 to produce assessments of well-being in the future.

It's important to note, however, that nobody will need to answer the questions about their sexual orientation or gender identity if they don't want to. I would like to thank both the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee and the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee for their work and their agreement with making the provisions for Wales through this Bill. I ask Members to support the motion today, as collecting this information on a voluntary basis will help us progress towards a more equal Wales and a Wales of cohesive communities. I move the motion.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n falch o gael y cyfle i egluro'r cefndir i'r cynnig cydsyniad deddfwriaethol hwn o ran Bil y Cyfrifiad (Manylion Dychwelyd a Dileu Cosbau). Mae'r cyfrifiad yn rhoi cipolwg ar y boblogaeth yn y Deyrnas Unedig bob 10 mlynedd. Mae'n rhoi gwybodaeth inni am bobl, gan gynnwys eu haddysg, eu crefydd, eu cefndir ethnig, eu bywyd gwaith a'u hiaith, er enghraifft. Mae llywodraethau cenedlaethol a lleol, grwpiau cymunedol, elusennau a busnesau yn defnyddio'r wybodaeth hon i wneud penderfyniadau i'w helpu i wasanaethu cymunedau ac unigolion yng Nghymru yn well.

Cafodd Papur Gwyn cyfrifiad 2021, 'Helpu i Lunio ein Dyfodol: Cyfrifiad  o Boblogaeth a Thai yng Nghymru a Lloegr 2021' ei osod gerbron Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ym mis Rhagfyr y llynedd. Mae'r Papur Gwyn yn nodi argymhellion Awdurdod Ystadegau'r DU ynghylch cynnwys a chynnal cyfrifiad 2021. Roedd hyn yn cynnwys y cynnig i ofyn cwestiynau newydd am gyfeiriadedd rhywiol a hunaniaeth o ran rhywedd ar gyfer y rhai sy'n 16 oed neu'n hŷn. Diben y Bil, sy'n cynnwys Cymru, Lloegr a Gogledd Iwerddon, yw cynnwys cyfeiriadedd rhywiol a hunaniaeth o ran rhywedd fel manylion y gallai fod eu hangen yn y cyfrifiad a gwneud y ddarpariaeth o'r wybodaeth hon yn wirfoddol. Bydd casglu gwybodaeth am gyfeiriadedd rhywiol a hunaniaeth o ran rhywedd yn ein helpu ni ac eraill i fonitro'r gwasanaethau a ddarperir yn unol â Deddf Cydraddoldeb 2010. Bydd hefyd yn ddata pwysig i gyrff cyhoeddus i'w cefnogi yn eu dyletswyddau o dan Ddeddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau'r dyfodol (Cymru) 2015 i lunio asesiadau o lesiant yn y dyfodol.

Mae'n bwysig nodi, fodd bynnag, na fydd angen i neb ateb y cwestiynau am eu cyfeiriadedd rhywiol neu eu hunaniaeth o ran rhywedd os nad ydynt yn dymuno gwneud hynny. Hoffwn ddiolch i'r Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau a'r Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol am eu gwaith ac am gytuno â gwneud y darpariaethau ar gyfer Cymru drwy'r Bil hwn. Gofynnaf i'r Aelodau gefnogi'r cynnig heddiw, gan y bydd casglu'r wybodaeth hon ar sail wirfoddol yn ein helpu i symud ymlaen tuag at Gymru fwy cyfartal a Chymru o gymunedau cydlynus. Cynigiaf y cynnig.

Daeth y Llywydd i’r Gadair.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau, John Griffiths.

I call on the Chair of the Equalities, Local Government and Communities Committee, John Griffiths.

Diolch, Llywydd. Just to very much welcome this LCM and restate what the committee said in its report, that we do believe that the LCM is the appropriate way of taking these measures forward as they relate to Wales. And can I say as Chair, Llywydd, that I very much welcome the ability to include those questions on sexual orientation and gender identity on a voluntary basis, as the Minister said? Because it's obviously very important that people in minorities in terms of their sexual orientation and gender identity have services delivered appropriate to their needs, and that greater degree of information that will be available to service providers is very significant and entirely in keeping with, I believe, the equality policy and the view on equality that this Assembly and this Welsh Government takes.

Diolch, Llywydd. Dim ond i groesawu'n fawr y Cynnig Cydsyniad Deddfwriaethol hwn ac ailddatgan yr hyn a ddywedodd y Pwyllgor yn ei adroddiad, rydym yn credu mai'r Cynnig Cydsyniad Deddfwriaethol yw'r ffordd briodol o fwrw ymlaen â'r mesurau hyn fel y maent yn berthnasol i Gymru. Ac a gaf fi ddweud, fel Cadeirydd, Llywydd, fy mod i'n croesawu'n fawr y gallu i gynnwys y cwestiynau hynny ar gyfeiriadedd rhywiol a hunaniaeth o ran rhywedd ar sail wirfoddol, fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog? Mae'n amlwg yn bwysig iawn bod pobl mewn lleiafrifoedd o ran eu cyfeiriadedd rhywiol a'u hunaniaeth o ran rhywedd yn cael gwasanaethau a ddarperir sy'n briodol i'w hanghenion, a bydd yr wybodaeth ychwanegol honno a fydd ar gael i ddarparwyr gwasanaethau yn arwyddocaol iawn ac yn gwbl gydnaws, yn fy marn i, â'r polisi cydraddoldeb a'r safbwynt ar gydraddoldeb a gymerir gan y Cynulliad hwn a Llywodraeth Cymru.

Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol, Mick Antoniw.

Chair of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee, Mick Antoniw.

Thank you, Llywydd. We considered the Welsh Government's legislative consent motion in respect of the Bill at our meeting on 10 June, and we laid our report before the Assembly on 24 June. We have noted the Welsh Government's reasons as to why, in its view, making provision for Wales in a UK Bill is appropriate, and we are content. Additionally, we welcome the fact that the Bill, for the first time, provides for voluntary questions on sexual orientation and gender identity to be included in future censuses.

Normally, the committee would only comment on the probity of a legislative consent motion and constitutional issues relating to it, but we do recognise that this is a major step forward in being able to identify issues relevant not just to sex equality, but also to issues relating to sexual orientation and gender equality. This is a very important equality measure, and the committee are very supportive of this policy.

Diolch, Llywydd. Rhoddwyd ystyriaeth i Gynnig Cydsyniad Deddfwriaethol Llywodraeth Cymru mewn cysylltiad â'r Bil yn ein cyfarfod ar 10 Mehefin, a gosodwyd ein hadroddiad gerbron y Cynulliad ar 24 Mehefin. Rydym wedi nodi rhesymau Llywodraeth Cymru pam, yn ei barn hi, y byddai'n briodol darparu ar gyfer Cymru ym Mil y DU, ac rydym ni'n hapus gyda hynny. Hefyd, rydym yn croesawu'r ffaith bod y Bil, am y tro cyntaf, yn darparu ar gyfer cynnwys cwestiynau gwirfoddol ar gyfeiriadedd rhywiol a hunaniaeth o ran rhywedd mewn cyfrifiadau yn y dyfodol.

Fel rheol, ni fyddai'r Pwyllgor ond yn gwneud sylwadau ar uniondeb Cynnig Cydsyniad Deddfwriaethol a'r materion cyfansoddiadol sy'n ymwneud ag ef. Ond rydym yn cydnabod bod hwn yn gam mawr ymlaen o ran gallu nodi materion sy'n berthnasol nid yn unig i gydraddoldeb rhwng y rhywiau, ond hefyd i faterion sy'n ymwneud â chyfeiriadedd rhywiol a chydraddoldeb rhywiol. Mae hwn yn fesur cydraddoldeb pwysig iawn, ac mae'r Pwyllgor yn gefnogol iawn i'r polisi hwn.


Y Gweinidog Cyllid i ymateb i'r ddadl.

The Minister for Finance to reply to the debate.

Rebecca Evans AM 16:26:02
Minister for Finance and Trefnydd