National Assembly for Wales

Good afternoon and welcome to this afternoon's Plenary session. The first item on our agenda this afternoon will be questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from Tom Giffard. 

We recognise that illegal and anti-social use of off-road motor cycles and electric bikes poses a danger in our communities and is very much an area of concern. We're working with the Welsh police forces and other road safety partners to find effective solutions to tackle these issues.

I'm grateful to you, First Minister, for your response, and the fact that it does appear to be on your radar, because I've been made aware of a number of complaints from people living in Gorseinion in my region about the use of off-road motor bikes and e-bikes being driven quite recklessly around residential estates, and putting people in danger, swerving between cars, putting young children in danger as well. And, in particular, it’s a particular issue for those that suffer with sight loss or blindness, because these things can often be almost silent as well. I know much of this work is the responsibility of the police, but I think you hit upon how the Welsh Government can work with other partners and other agencies to tackle this problem where it exists. So, what more can the Welsh Government do to ensure that this is not a problem that continues to blight communities across Wales?

Thanks very much. I think we should make it clear that, in general, the Welsh Government supports legal e-bikes as a low-carbon and accessible transport option, but we recognise also that they are causing huge concern amongst some people in our communities, and that they do pose a risk to both riders and the public, especially those vulnerable road users that you’ve just pointed out.

Now, we have undertaken some proactive enforcement measures, working with the local police forces. We know, in Gwent, they’ve got Operation Harley. In north Wales, there’s Operation Blue Takeoff, and that’s specifically working on illegal use of off-road motor cycles. I’m really pleased that the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales is meeting police chiefs and police and crime commissioners shortly, and has engaged the active travel board to investigate and address concerns about illegal e-bikes, focusing on those vulnerable groups that you talked about, and on improper charging practices.

I’m grateful to the First Minister for her response to that, because the blight of off-road bikes and e-bikes is something that is being experienced in communities up and down Blaenau Gwent as well, and I’m aware that Gwent Police has been working hard to try and deal with these matters, because it affects the hills around the borough as well. But would it be possible for the Welsh Government to bring the police forces and local government together, to ensure that we are bearing down on this issue, because this is terrifying people in towns and villages and communities across Blaenau Gwent, and, I think, across the whole country? This is something that is destroying the quality of life for people in many communities, and it’s something that I’m sure the Welsh Government wants to get a firm grip on.

Yes, and we are taking this very seriously. We know it’s not an area of devolved responsibility, but we care about the people who live in our communities who are frightened by these bikes. And that is why I think it is important that we work with police forces in addressing this issue, but also in making sure that those police and crime commissioners are actively involved and engaged in how we can address this issue.

I’m sorry to hear this is a problem in Blaenau Gwent. It’s a huge problem in Cardiff. As a cyclist, I regularly meet cyclists who are speeding along at way more than 20 mph, so they are definitely illegal bikes. I’ve been in correspondence with the three main takeaway delivery people, and, in varying degrees, they take a small amount of responsibility for this—not nearly enough, given that when somebody kills a pedestrian—most likely—in delivering food for that organisation, they are going to have egg all over their face, and they will regret not having ensured that all their cyclists are legal, are insured, and are trained, and understand that they have a duty towards the community at large not to kill them on the roads. So, I want to see a much closer relationship with these delivery companies, who dominate the landscape in Cardiff, to ensure that they are taking action, rather than leaving it to the Government to do it.

Thanks very much. We recognise that there are people, in particular those delivery services—. Some of those people who are delivering perhaps don't comply always with the rules. The employment model limits liability. The difficulty of the situation is that many food delivery companies classify riders as self-employed contractors, and that weakens the accountability for the legality or safety of vehicles used. What I can tell you is that, in Cardiff, in April, a special e-bike safety operation took place in Cardiff city centre, and that involved special constables, the neighbourhood policing team and Cardiff council officials. That was specifically to address safety concerns and non-compliant electric bikes in a busy urban area of Cardiff. So, the companies that you are concerned with should certainly have been aware of that.

Transport for Wales are developing plans for up to seven new railway stations in the Swansea bay urban area. These can integrate with other projects that we're already funding, and more will come through the regional transport plan set to be produced this summer.

Thank you. Now that the south Wales metro is being delivered, which is a huge achievement, and we shouldn't pocket it, and the plan has been set out for a north Wales metro project, it's really important that south-west Wales isn't left behind. It's good, as you mentioned, that the regional transport plans are being developed, but, both in south-east and north Wales, Transport for Wales and the Welsh Government worked side by side with the region to develop a pipeline of projects, because these take years to develop. It's really important that this isn't just simply left to the regional—that the Welsh Government and TfW do the same for the south-west as they did for the south-east and for north Wales. Given the important role that buses are going to play in a south-west Wales metro, because there simply isn't the old railway infrastructure that we had in around Cardiff, will the Welsh Government take the opportunity of the bus Bill, and the work going along that, to create the infrastructure necessary for bus priority measures, like bus lanes, so that these are funded and planned as part of the bus Bill roll-out, and are there then to be built on as a future network metro project?

Thanks very much. I think it is worth pausing, first of all, to see the massive strides we've made as a Government when it comes to rail funding. There are people all over Wales now using brand-new trains, across Wales. It's something we need to encourage people to do, but it is something that I think we should mark. It's a huge investment we've made—£800 million. But you're quite right—we need to make sure now that everybody feels that they have a stake in the system.

Rail infrastructure, rail development, as you know, takes years and years to plan and develop. That's why we are continuing to work with Swansea bay and west Wales in terms of the metro programme, in terms of those seven new rail stations. We are going to be looking at what that pipeline looks like. I think it's really important also that we underline the importance of the bus network as a part of that metro system—so, let's not think of metro just in terms of rail. I think the decline in bus services under this deregulated system is something that has impacted lots of areas, in particular rural areas. I am really pleased now that our new law will help us to get a bit more control of that.

South-west Wales has been selected as the first region to implement bus franchising. We're developing a cutting-edge hydrogen bus pilot in the Swansea area. There have been also some huge other developments in relation to rail services—for example, the rail service from Milford Haven and Haverfordwest, and between Fishguard and Carmarthen, and there are going to be increased services between Swansea and Tenby. So, all of those are coming. But you're right—the pipeline is being developed. We want to do that with the local authorities, through a strategic approach. But I can assure you that Welsh Government will be standing there, holding the tiller and making sure that we work with local authorities, but there is a broader Welsh strategic plan.

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Darren Millar. 

First Minister, back in November, your Cabinet Secretary for finance assured the Senedd that the UK Government would provide, and I quote, 'full funding' to address the impact of Labour's national insurance increases on public sector employees. We now know that the total cost of the job tax, just for public sector employers, is £257 million, yet Rachel Reeves has provided just £185 million, leaving our NHS, local councils and other employers short-changed by over £70 million in this year alone, because, remember, this will impact us year on year on year on year. What action did you and your Government take to prevent this from happening?

Thanks very much. Well, the UK Government has given us £185 million to help to cover the national insurance [Interruption.]—if you would let me finish—to cover the national insurance costs, to cover those directly employed in public services. But you're right—there is a shortfall. We've made it very clear, right from the beginning, that we were unhappy about the situation. It's not a Labour-Labour issue; this is a devolved Government issue. Scotland is just as annoyed as we are. Northern Ireland is just as annoyed as we are. We've made it clear to the UK Government that we are unhappy with the situation. I think that it is important also that we get some perspective on this. We have had the biggest uplift in the history of devolution, after the disastrous inheritance that your Government left us, and it is important that we recognise that, and the fact that we've been able to give and offer an increase—an above-inflation increase—to those public servants in the NHS for the second year is because of that increase that we had from the UK Government. And let's just be clear, you voted, along with with Plaid Cymru, to block that money coming to Wales.

So, you've been complaining about a shortfall, knowing that one was coming, but it's quite clear that nobody's listening to you. You have absolutely no influence over your colleagues down at the other end of the M4. Deaf ears are what your words have fallen on, and we all know in this Chamber that the true cost of the jobs tax to our public sector is far more than the £257 million, because many services are contracted out by the public sector to the voluntary sector and independent providers—bin collections, housing providers, end-of-life care in our Welsh hospices, social care for the vulnerable in care homes and in their own homes, to name but a few. Now, all of these organisations are going to be paying this jobs tax from now on, every single one of them.  It's going to be costing them more money, and those costs will have to be passed on to the councils, to our health boards and, ultimately, the taxpayer is going to be picking up the bill. What is your estimate, as a Government, of the cost to the overall public sector bill of this jobs tax, not just the direct costs in terms of employees?

So, 86 per cent of the additional costs for people who are directly employed have been covered now between the UK Government and the Welsh Government, and that will help to relieve the pressure on some of our public services, including the NHS. And I was really pleased to see, just before the recess, that we were able to hit our target in relation to bringing those waiting lists down—money that you tried to block, that Plaid Cymru tried to block, and that is significant, and those are the things that people want us to focus on. They want us to focus on the bread-and-butter issues. We have been able to identify that additional money, but it is important, I think, that we recognise and we continue to make the case to the UK Government that they should be covering the entire cost. It's not something we've been shy about making clear to them. It is something where we're talking with Scotland and Northern Ireland about the difficulties that this poses to us for, you're quite right, not just this year but for future years as well.

You're popping the champagne corks on the NHS; the reality is that you promised to deliver zero in terms of people waiting for two years plus, and that was two years ago, not 8,000 by now. And we all know that, of course, there's massive inequality in terms of that access as well, with things being much worse in north Wales than other parts of the country.

But let's get back to this national insurance increase, this jobs tax that's been imposed by your UK Labour counterparts. Every single year now tens of millions of pounds, hundreds of millions of pounds, in extra costs will be lumped into the budgets of our local authorities and, indeed, of our NHS. And the reality is that you have no idea and no plan on how to mitigate the impact of the cost of the jobs tax on public sector contractors. Since last year, we have seen an assault on Welsh pensioners, an assault on Welsh farmers, an assault on Welsh businesses, all supported by this Welsh Labour Government, and now we have an assault on our public services too. It is no wonder that Rachel Reeves feels confident that she can pick the pockets of Welsh taxpayers once again by making this short-changed gesture towards us. You told us that we'd have two Governments at both ends of the M4 fighting for Wales, yet the reality is that the people of Wales have been failed, forgotten and fleeced time and time again, ever since this Labour Government was elected in July of last year. So, can I ask you now: are you embarrassed about these facts, and will you apologise to every single person in Wales who has been affected by these dreadful changes?

I'll always stand up for Wales, and what I can't believe is the absolute hypocrisy of a Tory—a Tory—after 14 years of austerity, after the way you've inflicted cuts on our services year after year after year. Ask yourself why it is we're in such a difficult situation. You left office with a huge tax burden on people, massive inflation, huge interest rates. That was under your previous Government's watch. We have to make up for the mess that you left behind. We will continue to do that, and I will continue to stand up for Wales at every opportunity, including when it comes to national insurance.

Leader of Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. I wish I had more than three questions today, because, in the past few days alone, we've had more than that many examples of how Labour's so-called 'partnership in power' has harmed Wales. I'll try to summarise. Two issues to begin with: yes, firstly, national insurance. The finance Cabinet Secretary had to raid Welsh Government's own coffers last week because they'd failed to make the case to UK Labour Government to give Wales its share of public sector national insurance payment compensation. We now face a shortfall of more than £70 million. It's a Labour tax on Wales. And secondly, confirmation that we have another HS2 on our hands, with the Labour UK Government designating the new multi-billion pound Oxford to Cambridge rail project as an England-and-Wales project too. You could not make this up. For all the talk of the UK Government acknowledging somehow that Welsh rail has been historically underfunded, this is some partnership in power. So, on rail, and on national insurance, why has the First Minister allowed Wales to be given a raw deal by her own party?

Well, I've made it clear time and time again, and I've made it clear to the Chancellor, I've made it clear to the Prime Minister, that we will continue to make the case for the entire cost of national insurance to be covered for the public sector in Wales.

When it comes to rail infrastructure, I think he probably needs a little lesson on how the Welsh devolution settlement works. So, rail infrastructure is not devolved to Wales. You might want it devolved, but that is the situation it is in at the moment. So, what we have is a situation where there is a pipeline of projects for England and Wales. Are we getting our fair share? Absolutely not. Are we making the case? Absolutely, and I'm hoping that we will see some acknowledgement of that through the spending review. Unlike the Tories, there is recognition that there was massive underinvestment under the Conservatives. The Oxford to Cambridge railway line is a part of that broader rail infrastructure piece. The HS2 project was an exception to that, which is why we're making the case in a separate way. But if you'd like my officials to run through with you how the devolution settlement works, I'm more than happy to provide that opportunity.

So, just to be clear, you did come round eventually to saying that HS2 funding was wrong, but you’re standing by the decision on Oxford to Cambridge. We’ll come back and challenge you on that. The First Minister likes to give her little lessons, doesn’t she? Well, the lesson that’s clear for her is that, when it comes to the influence that she has on Keir Starmer and on UK Labour, it is precisely zero.

I don’t know what it is about politics that the First Minister finds so difficult. If you believe in something, then fight for it and vote for it. Wales deserves better than a First Minister who's led, frankly, by polling and not by principle. She mocked Plaid Cymru, didn't she, for making the case for lifting the two-child benefit cap. She voted against a Plaid Cymru motion on lifting the two-child benefit cap. Now apparently she agrees with us and says, and I quote here, she's ‘really worried about child poverty’. Where was that concern when her party dropped its target of eradicating child poverty back in 2016? The change of heart is presumably because her Labour colleagues in the UK Government are signalling now that lifting the cap could actually be in scope. So, I'd like to know, if—and it remains an ‘if’—the two-child benefit cap is indeed lifted, how will the Welsh Government's attitude to its own poverty strategy change? Will the First Minister commit to reintroducing child poverty targets, as called for by all the experts in the field? Or will this be another case of Labour saying one thing and doing another?

I just find it incredible. 'If you believe in it, vote for it'—you didn't vote for £1.6 billion of additional funding. You don't believe it. You don't believe it. So listen to this. This is worth—[Interruption.] It is worth—[Interruption.] It is worth reflecting on this, because it is really important that the people of Wales hear this. Plaid Cymru will not vote for additional money to come into Wales to support the dropping of the numbers on our waiting lists—that is the reality—because it's not enough. It's not enough. You think about the implications of what that means if they were ever to lead in Wales. It would be catastrophic. You'd never get a budget through, because it would never be enough. I think it is really important that the Welsh public hears this very loud and clear.

When it comes to the two-child benefit cap, let me make it clear that the Secretary for social justice in the Welsh Government has made it clear time after time after time after time in the four-nations Government ministerial group that we do not agree with this policy. This is not jumping on a bandwagon. It is something that we have been clear about for a number of years. It's a Tory-inspired idea, and it is something that we are very clear we would like to see changed.

We have a First Minister in a pickle, and we have a First Minister in a panic. On the budget, let's be very, very clear: what we have is a situation where Labour accepts whatever Keir Starmer says Wales should be grateful for. Plaid Cymru does not. We will stand up for what's right for Wales.

Let me summarise. Labour's partnership in power leaves Wales facing—let's call it this week a 'quadruple whammy'. Saying one thing and voting another way on the two-child benefit cap; leaving Wales short-changed to the tune of £70 million on national insurance; designating the Oxford-Cambridge railway project an England-and-Wales scheme, denying us hundreds of millions of pounds in funding again, another HS2; and, finally, we've also now seen the cancelling of the only public consultation session in Wales on the future of personal independence payments. It seems that Labour has utterly given up on Wales, so it's little wonder that Wales is giving up on Labour. Is this the legacy that the First Minister had been hoping for?

Well, I can send him a copy of my ‘red Welsh way’ speech if he'd like me to. Just to make it clear, I have made the case. I've made it clear where I am disappointed with the UK Government. But I will say once again that actually we've had the biggest uplift we've ever had in the history of devolution, and you—and you—voted against it. You voted against that additional money for potholes, additional money for the NHS, additional money for education. All of those things, you tried to block that money going into your communities. It was very, very disappointing, and the people of Wales have noted that.

Now, when it comes to the Oxford and Cambridge line, let's be clear: you need to understand how the system works. If you don't understand how the system works—. It is very different from HS2, and, if you haven't understood that, you do need to go back and work out how the system works. This system is not devolved. In Scotland it is devolved. [Interruption.] I think it's really important, and we will continue to make the case for additional funding when it comes to rail. I am hopeful; I've made the case very, very clearly that, when it comes to rail, we have been short-changed, and I do hope that we will get some movement on that in the next week from the spending review.

Planning authorities are responsible for the enforcement of all planning permissions.

First Minister, over the Senedd recess, I visited Hendy windfarm in Powys. As I'm sure you will be aware, as we share the same region, it has been more than six years since the first turbine was erected at Hendy, but it has not yet generated a single watt of electricity. Permission for the windfarm was granted over the head of the local authority, and the planning conditions clearly stipulate that, if they were not producing electricity by 31 August 2021, then the turbines at Hendy were to be removed. But this has never been enforced, and the turbines remain sitting idle. Do you agree with me that Hendy is emblematic of so many of the problems with Wales's energy system: large-scale developments by multinational companies that do not respond to local needs or concerns, and so often do not work for our communities? Do you also agree that the Welsh Government is not going far enough to enforce planning conditions on developments of this scale to enforce its claimed presumption in favour of undergrounding, or to promote the kinds of community-owned energy solutions that Wales actually needs?

Thanks. Well, we have a target to meet 100 per cent of our energy needs from renewable sources by 2035. That is an ambitious target, but we have very clear plans to do that. It doesn't mean that we abandon policies that protect the environment, residential amenity or highway safety, so there are clear rules about this. But I'm not going to apologise for the fact that we have huge ambitions in this space. I think the fact that we've put additional resources into planning—significant additional resources into planning—demonstrates our ambition in this space. And you're quite right, we need to make sure that Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru really gets to lead a lot more of these projects, so that we can lock in more of that benefit in Wales.

When it comes to enforcement, Welsh Ministers don't interfere with planning matters that fall within the jurisdiction of planning authorities, including the decision whether to undertake formal enforcement action. But we do monitor the overall performance of authorities investigating alleged breaches of planning control. So, I will ask the Cabinet Secretary to look into that particular case.

An excellent contribution by Cefin Campbell there. Enforcement—[Laughter.]

Right. So, the Infrastructure (Wales) Act 2024 actually simplifies—or is supposed to—the process for developing significant infrastructure projects by establishing a single infrastructure consenting process for specified types of major infrastructure projects. And yours, to me, falls under that. The IC process does not usually end once a decision is made by the Welsh Ministers to grant consent. As with any permissions granted, there will be responsibilities to discharge requirements and the potential for amendments to the consent project.

Between 19 September and 13 December last year the Welsh Government held a consultation on actually implementing this Act. Six months later, and the Welsh Government website states, and I quote—so, this is your Welsh Government website, Minister—

'The responses to this consultation are currently being reviewed.'

Now, during the passing of the Bill, I was consistent, at every stage of this Bill coming forward, that there was too much of an overdependence on secondary legislation, and lack of detail, fearing that we would encounter delays or problems, such as those that Cefin has mentioned. First Minister, those delays are now appearing, so what are you going to do to ensure that where enforcement is required, especially now we've got the infrastructure Bill, what are you actually going to do to ensure that that infrastructure Bill is worth more than the paper it's written on, and that you start to take due process in terms of enforcement? Diolch.

Thanks very much. Well, as I say, we've put significant additional resources into the planning area, in particular additional resources for Natural Resources Wales, £5 million for that; Planning and Environment Decisions Wales has had £1.9 million; and the planning directorate has £1.8 million. So, that's not an insignificant amount of additional funding this year. Now, what we have, as I've set out, is an effective development management process, and that requires planning authorities to be prepared to take enforcement action in appropriate circumstances. The Hendy case demonstrates that, perhaps, we do need to look at the overall strategy of what's happening in relation to that, and as I say, I've asked the Cabinet Secretary for economy to look into that particular case.

I take seriously the delivery and enforcement of planning conditions for all matters, including those of national significance. They are, of course, part of a package that includes delivery of the project itself that we should not lose sight of.

Cardiff Parkway, in my constituency, is a good example of this: a significant project with significant economic benefit in Cardiff and well beyond, which has conditions with it. What I would like to know is what the Welsh Government is doing to develop momentum around the delivery of whole projects of national significance. In Cardiff Parkway, of course, the Welsh Government is a joint venture partner. I want to see Wales being a place where ambitions are realised, not simply discussed, but actively delivered on, a place and a country where things happen, and this is part of it. And, of course, First Minister, it's part of one of your four priorities for this Government.

Absolutely. We agree, I think, that actually we do need to put more emphasis on economic development, that we need to drive the growth of the economy in Wales. I think there is real opportunity now to build on the initial developments that are happening in Cardiff Parkway, and the potential there is really very significant. One of the reasons for that and to demonstrate how serious we are about this, we will, of course, be holding an investment summit later on this year, which will give us the opportunity not to talk, but to deliver in relation to that additional investment that we are interested in landing into our nation.

Good afternoon, First Minister. Just to come back to the issue raised by Cefin Campbell, we all want to see Wales leading on renewable energy, but the key to it is working with communities, and that has not happened in relation to Hendy farm. We've got another plan—there are many across mid Wales—around erecting pylons from Radnor forest to Carmarthenshire. Ninety-seven kilometres of steel pylons, and there's real concern in our communities here. We know in Radnorshire that we have got national treasures there. We've got the Elan valley woodlands within the national forest of Wales; we've got eco projects like the Gilfach nature reserve. People in Radnorshire and across mid Wales do want solutions that are green and protect these special places. Many farmers have told me that they would open their gates if the Welsh Government mandated undergrounding of those proposed pylons. We were due the delivery of a report on the future energy grid for Wales at the end of March by the independent advisory group. We still don't have it. Could you tell us, please, when that report is due to be delivered? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thanks very much. We do have to get the balance right, don't we, in terms of the need to develop renewable energy resources, which I think we all would sign up to, and affordability. There is a massive problem with energy and fuel poverty in Wales. If we underground everything, let's be clear, the cost will be passed on to consumers, which will push up the prices for people in our communities. That is the reality of the situation. So, it's one thing or another. Now, we're trying to get that balance right. We need to make sure that we do involve communities in the way that you suggest.

I've been looking a lot into undergrounding. What does it look like? How much does it cost? What are the technical issues associated with it? And it's a lot more complicated than I thought at first, and so I think it probably is worth making sure that we all bring ourselves up to speed in terms of what the technical issues are associated with undergrounding, because you cause quite a lot of damage when it comes to undergrounding as well. So, I just think we've got to get a rational debate going here. Let's get the balance between the costs of energy and the need to build out renewable energy within Wales.

I have been pushing the group to publish their recommendations as soon as possible. I know that there are differences, perhaps, of opinion within the group, so we're just trying to make sure that we get that balance right and that they are ready to publish as soon as we can. So, I'll again ask the economy Secretary to see if we can speed up the publication of that report.

I welcome the renewed approach to improving UK-EU relations and the opportunities the announcements made at the UK-EU summit will afford to the people of Wales. Many of our priorities are reflected in the agreement, and we will continue to work with the UK Government to build on these, moving forward.

Thank you, First Minister. It's a deal that delivers for Welsh businesses in the food and drink, defence, energy and steel sectors, which will benefit from reduced trade barriers and increased investment in jobs, and for Welsh people, who will benefit from lower food and energy bills, shorter queues on holiday, and safer streets, thanks to increased collaboration on law enforcement. First Minister, do you agree with me that this deal represents sensible progress, growth and stability, in contrast to the Tories' failed Brexit deal and Reform's ideological opposition to working within Europe at all?

Thanks very much, Joyce, and, you’re quite right, this is a very significant deal. It’s very important to the people of Wales. There were promises made to the people of Wales when it came to voting for Brexit, and those promises have not been honoured. What we've seen is a huge reduction in the volume of goods exported to the EU—a 25 per cent drop. That is the reality of the situation, and that translates into jobs. It translates into a lack of money in our communities. So, these are real things that affect people, and that’s why I am pleased that we are getting to a closer relationship with the EU. Is it as close as I would like? No. You know I'm a Euro enthusiast; I'm not going to apologise for that. That is the situation. Nobody would believe me if I said anything else.

I think it is really important, though, that we recognise that this is a good deal for Wales, that the sanitary and phytosanitary agreement in particular will give valuable opportunities, in particular to our Welsh food and drink exports. And I'm particularly pleased to see that they are now going to look at reintroducing a youth exchange programme, because I do think that people-to-people exchanges are the things that really matter, the things that underpin the relationships within the EU. I'm really pleased that we were able to introduce our own Taith programme, but it’s much better if we can do that as the United Kingdom as well.

Of all the industries that voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU, fishing was one of them, so it is little wonder that the industry that has been most angered by this deal is the fishing sector, as Europe's fishing boats have been granted a further 12 years of access to British waters. Now, you were kept out of the loop of these discussions, and you've said you wanted more discussion on this, but what do you say to those Welsh fishermen who have been thrown under the bus by Keir Starmer and this deal?

I'll tell you what I'll tell them: I'll tell them that this is simply an extension of the agreement that your party signed up to, and the fact is that if you look at the benefits coming out of this programme, in terms of the potential for increased trade, if you look at the opportunities when it comes to things like us being able to tender for procurement in relation to defence—we've got around 20,000 people working in defence and aerospace in Wales—there are real opportunities there for us to tap into that system. The fact is, in Wales, there are about 109 full-time equivalent people working in fishing in Wales, and so, yes, they're important, but it is important to recognise that what we're doing is extending the very agreement that your party actually set out in the first place.

Of course, there are a number of things to welcome within that deal, youth mobility being a particular one that I was happy to see within the deal. But I wouldn't go as far as to say that the deal is the best thing since sliced bread. I mean, you've got to look at some of the economic assessments that have come out as a result of this deal. Some of them are suggesting that we would see a boost of just 0.3 per cent to the UK economy by 2040, which compares to the 4 per cent GDP hit that has already been inflicted on the UK economy since Brexit. So, it simply is not going to touch the sides. So, what I would like to hear from the First Minister is confirmation as to whether or not the Welsh Government has undertaken its own assessment of what this projected UK-wide growth will add to the Welsh economy specifically. And how far does it go to make up for the over £5 billion-worth of economic damage that your Government has previously estimated as the cost to Wales of being outside the single market and customs union?

Well, what we do know is that the impact of Brexit on Wales was greater than it was, relatively speaking, on the rest of the United Kingdom. That's partly because we have a sector in Wales that—. In terms of goods, we export more goods. We've got a balance that is more goods related than services related, and that has meant that we have taken a greater hit. The value of Wales's goods exports to the EU, we think, is around £10 billion, which is around 5.1 per cent lower than it was in 2018. So, hopefully, we will see that come back up. I'm not sure if we'll get back up to the place we were before, but certainly dismantling some of those barriers, which will result as a consequence of this agreement, will help us to export more and to provide more jobs in the Welsh economy.

One Euro enthusiast to another, it's good to hear the First Minister accept that Brexit has been an utter disaster for Wales and has failed to deliver on any of the promises that were made at the time. Like the First Minister, I welcome the agreement reached last month by the UK Government as a first step towards having a structured re-engagement with the European Union, leading to rejoining the European Union, because that is where our future lies. Anybody who's watched UK, European and world politics over the last few years will understand that. But I understand that the Tories won't.

In terms of where we're going now, will the Welsh Government hold a debate in this place, so that we can all debate the way forward for Wales in our relationship with the European Union, and ensure that the Welsh Government has the consent of this Parliament to ensure that when we are taking Wales closer to the European Union, that we're bringing the people with us?

Thanks very much. I do think it's important that, in whatever we do, we try and bring the people of Wales with us. It's one of the reasons why the whole of the Cabinet yesterday went to Aberystwyth, just to make sure that we are listening to every part of Wales, that we embrace every part of Wales, that there's an understanding that we need to, for example, take on board the needs and concerns of rural areas as well as urban areas, and we will be doing that in other parts of Wales as well. So, bringing the people with us is essential.

I think that was a problem when it came to our membership of the EU. We didn't do a good job of selling the advantages and pointing out the huge, huge benefits that people, in particular in the poorest areas, like the community that you represent, actually benefited from. We should have done a better job. There's a challenge for us, I think, in Welsh Government, to make sure that people understand how much that they take for granted, that we give to them on a daily basis from the Welsh Government, and some of that could be under threat if, for example, Reform were to get a hold of the reins of power in this place. I think it's really important that we underline the opportunities in relation to that agreement, in particular things like steel, where there’s an agreement that they won’t be imposing taxes for us. I was pleased that we were involved in discussions in the run-up to the deal, and it was good that so many of our points were taken on board by the UK Government.

Wales's best and most versatile agricultural land is one of our most important natural resources, best able to produce food and other crops. It should only be developed if there's an overriding need and when brownfield sites are not available and there is genuinely no alternative.

Thank you, First Minister. Residents in my region have told me that they feel blindsided by a proposal for a 304-acre solar farm stretching across three local authority boundaries in my region. The proposed solar farm around Ponthir, far from being a community project, is being pushed through by a multinational company without any public consultation. Residents are angry, worried and frustrated by the lack of proper consultation and the negative visual impact this will have on the stunning landscape in that area, not to mention the additional risk to our future food security.

You’ve stated your ambitions today on renewable energy for Wales, but would you agree with me, First Minister, that these aims cannot come at the expense of our food security? Would you accept my invitation to visit the site to see the beauty and value of that farmland that’s at risk, and to hear the concerns of local residents in Monmouthshire, Torfaen and Newport? And will you commit to halting any progress on the proposals unless and until a proper open and local consultation has taken place? Diolch.

Well, planning policy makes it clear that land should now only be developed when there is an overriding need to do so, when it comes to prime agricultural land and when there’s no alternative, such as brownfield or less valuable land. So, the shorthand for this is 'worst first'. I think it is important to just check whether the land that you’re talking about complies and falls into that prime agricultural land or not. We provide free information online about where that prime agricultural land is, so I would encourage you to have a look at that, and we back this up with free advice from our soil policy team, so you can have a look at whether it is in that area. If it is, then I think they will have good grounds to appeal the decision.

Everyone who works in the public service in Wales shares a personal responsibility for the stewardship of taxpayers' money. 'Managing Welsh Public Money' sets out the framework and principles that must be applied in the Welsh Government and its sponsored bodies.

First Minister, people across Wales are angry, and rightly so. While they face real struggles on a day-to-day basis, with housing, NHS waiting times and poor educational performance, your Welsh Labour Government is hellbent on wasting their money. Let me go through some of the wasteful spending that the Welsh Government have: £1.5 million on a commission to look at Welsh independence; £120 million on more politicians; £150 million on an M4 relief road—the road to nowhere; £2.8 million on business rates for half-empty Welsh Government buildings; and £250,000 spent on a project to count moths. Well, you couldn’t make it up.

The public are angry, First Minister, and they want every element of public spending scrutinised properly. So, can you explain to those people, First Minister, why this Government is not reducing bureaucracy, not reducing waste while it is expending their hard-earned taxpayer money?

You want to compare stats? I’ll give you some stats: the Tory Government wrote off £10 billion when it came to personal protective equipment, which was enough to pay for the entire NHS in Wales for a whole year—we’re not talking millions, we’re talking billions here; £140 million on a Rwanda deal that never materialised; £1.7 million on painting the Prime Minister's plane; £3 billion pounds on hiring temps to do civil servant jobs; and £0.5 billion on post-Brexit inspection sites that were never used. I could go on and on and on. Don't you come to me in the Tory Party and talk to me about waste. You are the experts on waste.

I'm committed to reducing waiting times and ensuring everyone in Wales, including those in Powys, has equitable and timely access to treatment. All NHS Wales organisations must plan and deliver services for their population in line with Welsh Government targets and within the financial and staffing resources available.

Thank you for your answer, First Minister. In a Welsh Government press statement less than two weeks ago, the health Secretary said Powys health board have

'no patients waiting more than...2 years for treatment.'

That is not true, that statement is not correct. Of course, you will know that many patients in Powys receive their treatment over the border in England and in other hospitals in other parts of Wales. Of course, it is true to say that no patient in Powys is waiting for treatment in a district general hospital in the county, because there is no district general hospital in the county. So, this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how health services are commissioned and patients receive healthcare services in Powys. I would ask you to correct that statement today, First Minister, and give you that opportunity.

Of course, from next month, we know that Powys patients will be waiting even longer than English patients when treated in English hospitals, because the Welsh Government are not prepared to step in and treat Powys health board to fund patients based on the English waiting-time target. So, can I ask you, First Minister, to accept that many patients in Powys are indeed waiting more than two years for treatment, and ask you what you and your Government are going to do about this?

I'm really delighted that we achieved our aim of around 8,000 people waiting for no longer than two years for treatment at the end of March. That was something that I think is important to celebrate and to recognise the incredible hard work that was done by NHS staff. It is important to praise these people when they have gone above and beyond with the additional money that we've had as a result of a UK Labour Government in Westminster.

Now, let me tell you that it is worth reminding people that the average wait for treatment in Wales is 22 weeks. You're quite right, there are no patients waiting for treatment within the Powys health board, but I've been absolutely intrigued to find out that there are 40 people waiting for treatment in non-Welsh providers. So, that is in England. They're waiting. There are about 81 people in Powys waiting for two years for treatment—40 of them waiting for treatment in England. We're not telling them not to do it, it's England that's slow, and I just find it absolutely intriguing. Listen to this—[Interruption.]—listen to this: this is why you've really got to be careful with stats, because England throw around the fact that they've got 147 people in the whole of England waiting for two years, but 40 of them are in Powys. I just don't believe it for a minute.

The key thing to remember is that we count very differently in Wales compared with England, and let's be absolutely clear that Powys health board has not given an instruction to England not to treat patients in England. That is simply not the case.

Finally, question 8. Mabon ap Gwynfor.

Our long-term approach to improving cancer outcomes in Wales is set out in the quality statement for cancer and the NHS’s cancer improvement plan. The plan's aim is to improve the outcomes and experiences of people diagnosed with cancer, to prevent cancer and to detect it earlier and to address waiting times.

I thank the First Minister for that response. The funeral of Claire O'Shea will be held on Friday, and the First Minister will be aware of the campaigning role undertaken by Claire when it comes to gynaecological cancers, as well as many other areas, and I’m sure that the First Minister and this Chamber will extend our sympathies to her loved ones. But cancer patient outcomes continue to be poor in gynaecological cancers, with fewer than half receiving timely treatment, and a postcode lottery for treatment continuing. And, of course, we are aware that there isn’t a focus on gynaecological cancers in the Welsh women's health plan. So, what are you going to do to ensure the necessary focus and to remove the postcode lottery that is facing women in Wales?

Thank you very much. I'd like to extend my sympathies to the friends and family of Claire O'Shea, who has done so much to campaign in this area and many other areas during her lifetime.

Improving cancer outcomes is a priority for the Welsh Government and for the NHS in Wales. We have made significant investments in new facilities, and we have focused on cancers affecting women too, so there is a specific strategy looking at how we can make improvements in that area, and there are examples of how things have improved in the gynaecological field, so I'm very pleased to see that.

What's interesting also is that liquid biopsies are now available across all health boards in Wales for people who have suspected advanced stage lung cancer. So, that is a development that I think is quite exciting in terms of where we go in the future in this area.

I thank the First Minister.

The next item will be the business statement and announcement, and the Trefnydd will be making that statement. Jane Hutt.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. There are no changes to business this week. The business for the next three weeks is set out in the business statement and announcement available to Members electronically.

Diolch, Trefnydd. I'd be grateful if we could have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care regarding end-of-life care here in Wales. Yesterday, Marie Curie made it clear in the press that some people in Wales are isolated, living in pain and struggling to make ends meet due to gaps in end-of-life care. This is not acceptable, Trefnydd, and it's clear that something has to change. Now, I've also been working with Together for Short Lives and the children's hospice providers, Tŷ Hafan and Tŷ Gobaith, and I know that there are challenges in the children's hospice sector too. The sector needs fair and sustainable funding, and there are workforce shortages that also need to be addressed.

So, Trefnydd, these services are of critical importance, and we must ensure that good palliative care is accessible to anyone who actually needs it. Therefore, I'd be grateful if we could have an up-to-date statement from the Welsh Government detailing how it's investing in end-of-life care and how it's helping providers so that they are able to continue to support people with life-limiting conditions across Wales. Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr, Paul Davies. Indeed, I think many of us might have heard the report about the particular case that was raised in west Wales about end-of-life care, where, of course, the Welsh Government invests a great deal in end-of-life care. But also, this is about the whole system, isn't it, in terms of making space available, not just in terms of hospital capacity, but also in our care homes. Thank you for also referencing Tŷ Gobaith and all the work of our hospices, but it is something where it is important to hear from patients and learn from them and carers' feedback, so that health boards, obviously, can also address these issues as they're raised.

Trefnydd, last week the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language had a very busy week at the Urdd Eisteddfod, but also made two written statements. The first was on the Commission for Welsh-speaking Communities, a very significant commission in terms of the future of the Welsh language, and there were 57 recommendations in that report, and it was good to see the Welsh Government's response to it, but I do think, given the importance of that, it would be good to have an oral statement in this Senedd and an opportunity to discuss that report and the Government's response to it in full.

And the second thing, as we heard earlier, of course, is the statement made on national insurance contributions, confirming the deficit of £72 million, and the impact on the Welsh Government’s budget. It would be very good if we did have an opportunity to scrutinise that decision properly, to understand the implications, because, of course, we are talking about the public sector in terms of that £72 million, but we know, also, of the impact on the third sector, charities and businesses and so on. Of course, there is an opportunity to question the Cabinet Secretary tomorrow, but I do believe that many of us in this Chamber will have questions, and it would be good to have an opportunity to ask those.

Diolch yn fawr, Heledd Fychan, and thank you for those questions. Of course, there were two written statements that were published last week by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language, and, indeed, he has his oral Senedd questions, which is a real opportunity to raise questions.

Of course, we had a full airing of the issues around the national insurance contributions in questions to the First Minister, and it is important that that scrutiny and those questions are raised, as I’m sure they will be tomorrow as well. But it is important to remind the Chamber again that we’ve passed on all of the funding provided by the UK Government to meet the additional employer national insurance contribution costs to the public sector in 2025-26, and we’ve provided an extra £36 million from reserves to close the gap. This is a package of funding—a £220 million package of funding for public sector employers—but we recognise the difficulties for the public sector. We’ve gone as far as we’re able to, using funding that, indeed, could have been used for front-line services to pay a tax bill created by the UK Government. But these are issues on which, of course, we will, I’m sure, have further discussions, and, of course, as the First Minister said, the £1.6 billion of the budget for this year is as a result of that uplift in funding from the UK Government, overall, for our public services.

Also, I’m sure that the Cabinet Secretary will respond to questions about the important ‘Empowering communities, strengthening the Welsh Language’ report that came from the Commission for Welsh- speaking Communities.

I want to ask for two statements. The first statement I’m requesting is an update on cladding remediation. Whilst some blocks of flats such as South Quay appear to be having their problems resolved, in others, such as Altamar in Swansea, the residents are having difficulty reaching agreement with Bellway. Residents allege there are serious problems with fire safety at Altamar. Also, they believe that the surveys have revealed serious defects affecting the structural steel. So, can we have a statement from the housing Minister on that?

The second statement I’m requesting is on 3G and 4G sports pitches. Substantial progress has been made by councils such as Swansea, but there’s still a need for an increase in the number of 3G and 4G pitches. Whilst last winter was mainly dry, that’s unusual, and we’ve had seasons when there’s been less than one match a month being played on grass between November and the end of February. Can the statement include the number of 3G and 4G sports pitches in Wales, and the proposals to increase that number to ensure that we can play sport all the year round?

Diolch yn fawr, Mike Hedges. Thank you for those questions. On your questions about cladding, I understand that a meeting is being planned between Bellway and Altamar representatives on Friday—this Friday, 6 June—where Welsh Government officials will be present as observers. And I think the meeting is being held to share the findings of the latest surveys undertaken and agree a way forward that is agreeable to all parties. I think we must look at this in the context of the building safety programme, which is making good progress. But, clearly, there’s more to do, and the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government will meet with developers, including Bellway, again next week, on 9 June, and she will make it clear she expects all remediation works to be rapidly accelerated.

On your question about 3G and 4G football pitches, we have worked with Sport Wales, local authorities and DataMap Wales to provide that information for all known indoor and outdoor artificial grass sport pitches in Wales. And the data has shown, at the last count, that there are 342 artificial pitches in Wales, but they do vary in size, from full 3G to smaller sized pitches. I think it is important that Sport Wales is working with a pitch collaboration group to identify community projects for investment. The Minister for culture and sport is here today, and hearing this. That's a really important partnership between the Football Association of Wales, Hockey Wales, the Welsh Rugby Union and Sport Wales.

Trefnydd, I'd like a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for rural affairs regarding the bluetongue problems they've got in England. As most people know, on 1 July, all of England is going to become a bluetongue-restricted area, meaning that livestock can move freely around the country. We've yet to have any concrete actions from the Welsh Government as to what they plan to do ahead of 1 July.

What I see are two options on the table. The one option, which I think is the nuclear option, is that Wales doesn't go along with England, which creates that hard border, which means that people cannot move stock back and forth unless they have pre-movement tested. So, I could have a farmer in my constituency take sheep to Hereford on the Wednesday, not decide to sell them, but has got to leave them there until they're pre-movement tested to bring them back into Wales. That, to me, seems bureaucratic, it doesn't need to happen, and, actually, there's an administrative burden there for farmers, with the cost of it, and the welfare of those sheep as well. But there is the other option, that the Welsh Government could join in the scheme with England, which I think would be far more beneficial for Welsh farmers and our livestock markets across the country, and also for the supply of lamb going into our abattoirs, to make sure we can protect jobs in that sector as well. So, I'd welcome a statement from the Cabinet Secretary on this matter so that we can get an update here on how the Welsh Government intends to proceed.

Thank you for that question. Of course, the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary is here and has heard that question. I understand there's a ministerial round-table to be held on 5 June so that industry can share its preference—and, obviously, you're exploring that today—in terms of future bluetongue policy. It is important that the Chief Veterinary Officer for Wales met with industry representatives on 28 May, to take views to help inform our future approach to bluetongue control. So, we're considering the policy in veterinary implication for Wales. Also, following the round-table, there will be the latest veterinary advice, industry feedback, and that will be considered in terms of a policy that meets Welsh needs. That will be publicised, I understand, before the end of the bluetongue low-transmission period on 12 June.

I'd like to add my voice to those calling for a Government debate about the effect of welfare cuts on our citizens. Westminster's cuts to welfare will cost Wales £466 million in lost incomes. Those are figures from Policy in Practice. It still maddeningly falls to charities and companies to figure out just how horrendously badly people in Wales will be affected by these welfare cuts because Labour in Westminster refuse to do their own impact assessment for Wales. They refuse to own up to how many people's lives will be made more miserable and desperate and frightening because of their decision to introduce these cuts. Blaenau Gwent, Caerphilly and Merthyr are amongst the areas that will be hit most harshly. Thousands of disabled people are amongst them, who rely on this support to be able to live with dignity and independence. Trefnydd, it's high time this Senedd spoke with one voice on this issue and sent a message to Westminster that we will not stand for this reckless cruelty. So, can time be made by the Government to allow that message to be sent?

Thank you, Delyth Jewell. I was interested as well to see that report—Policy in Practice published that second report in partnership with the Bevan Foundation—'The impact of disability benefit reforms in Wales'. It is important that we look, as we are—. We're looking at every piece of evidence that we've got and we can bring together, and, indeed, the Policy in Practice evidence is really helpful and useful. We know that local authorities are looking at the evidence, as well as disabled people's organisations, who I met very recently in the disability equality forum, to hear from them directly their evidence, their concerns, case studies about the impact that they could see that would be adversely impacting them in terms of concerns of people with that lived experience. So, I can just assure you that we're bringing all this evidence together. We understand these welfare reforms are impacting on the people of Wales. We're actively listening to the concerns of people. I will publish our response not just on the Green Paper consultation, but also on the evidence that has come forward about the impact of the changes to the personal independence payments as well.

I'd like to ask for two statements today, please. Could we have an update from the Cabinet Secretary about the progress that's being made towards the creation of the residential women's centre planned for Swansea, for women who are at risk of prison? I think we all know how damaging it is for women and for their families if they are imprisoned, and it would be good to hear what progress is being made. It was also good to hear Ruth Jones, the chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee, calling for the centre to be opened in Swansea after the publication of the independent sentencing review, which recommended more sustainable and long-term funding for women's centres.

And then, secondly, could I ask for a statement following the great news that was released earlier this week, that a groundbreaking drug treatment has been developed by Velindre Cancer Centre and Cardiff University, which will extend the life of patients with incurable breast cancer? Of course, the first recipient was from Barry, from the Trefnydd's constituency. This new treatment has been available in Wales and England since April, and it's fantastic to think about the life expectations that will be increased through the development of this drug, and it's great that this new treatment has been developed in Wales, and particularly in Cardiff North, in my constituency.

Diolch yn fawr, Julie Morgan, for those two crucially important questions, because the residential women's centre is a key priority for the Welsh Government, and we know it will improve the lives of women in Wales. It will be a real asset. It will provide therapeutic, rehabilitative services as part of our trauma-informed approach. And it's a key element of our women's justice blueprint, and I will be giving a statement, updating colleagues of the Senedd on those blueprints, shortly. It is also clear, as you say, that the independent sentencing review is firmly supporting increasing the use of non-custodial sentences for offenders. I was pleased to give evidence to David Gauke and his review, and this is something that I will discuss with Lord Timpson. I am meeting him this week, and I am attending the ministerial round-table for women in the criminal justice system—that's the Lord Chancellor's round-table. I am joining that round-table on 10 June, and I'll continue to advocate for the opening of the residential women's centre for Swansea.

Yes, the cancer drug development is an exciting and huge gain in terms of cancer research, not just here for Wales but globally. Wales is a small country, but we more than punch above our weight in the field of new diagnostics, treatments, therapies and vaccines. Thanks to the licensing of capivasertib, tens of thousands of patients across the NHS in Wales and across the UK are going to get the benefits from that. But the most important point to make is that this massive achievement would not have happened without our partners, funded by Health and Care Research Wales. So, it is great to see Velindre University NHS Trust acting as the trial sponsor, funded from, as I said, a variety of funding streams, and also recognising the role of the Velindre research nurses, who were supported by the Velindre cancer charity.

Good afternoon, Trefnydd. I'd like two statements, please. Firstly, credit where credit's due, I was really encouraged to see the UK Government's plans to ensure children will be taught in classrooms across England about the importance of the armed forces, helping young people to learn about careers in defence and to boost their connection and awareness of armed forces. In light of this, I would like to call for a statement on what discussions the Welsh Government has had about ensuring that this welcome drive is implemented in Welsh classrooms.

Secondly, over the weekend, there were more crashes on the A40 around Raglan, one of which, very sadly, has resulted in a loss of life, with a 27-year-old man pronounced dead at the scene. I know you will join me in sending thoughts and prayers to his family and loved ones. In light of these several serious crashes, and now this tragic incident, can I please request a statement from the transport Secretary on what measures the Welsh Government will take to ensure that this stretch of road, particularly the Raglan junctions, are made safe for motorists? Raglan community council, local councillors, Peter Fox and our MP and I have long argued that a tragedy of this kind was inevitable and that urgent improvements here need to take place and that someone losing their life shouldn't be the catalyst for Welsh Government and the South Wales Trunk Road Agent to act. But I'm hoping now that the Welsh Government will take this seriously and act with urgency, so I'd like a statement on it, please. Diolch.

Thank you very much, Laura Anne Jones. I'm sure that, within our Curriculum for Wales, there are opportunities that children have—and probably already do have—in terms of learning not just about the role of our armed forces, but also in terms of opportunities and jobs and careers in defence in Wales. And, of course, Wales is also playing a huge part in terms of the defence industry, so that is an important point in terms of leading to our youth guarantee, access to apprenticeships, further education and training, as well as through the school curriculum. 

Yes, of course we would send and share our deepest sympathies to the family of the young man who lost his life. The A40 Raglan junction has been raised before, and I'm sure that, again, the circumstances, the police will be looking into those and engaging, of course, with officials in terms of the impact of that crash, but also in terms of the causes and the ways in which those could be addressed.

A fortnight ago, I raised with the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs my concerns about the bluetongue virus and the prospect of the restricted zone in England being extended to the whole of England. Now, at the time, he said that his hope was that we could keep it at least two counties away from the Welsh border, but now, as we've heard, from 1 July, the whole of England will be a restricted zone, and that will bring far-reaching implications for farms that straddle the border, for livestock auctions that are dotted along the border, and also, potentially, the Royal Welsh Show and other regional and local shows as well. So, I would add my voice to the calls for an early statement from the Government just outlining what the plan is now to deal with this latest development, what advice and support will be available to those who will be, potentially, affected, so that we can have clarity and certainty as soon as possible and avoid a situation where maybe things go right down to the last minute before people know where they stand. Diolch.

Thank you very much for your question. 

I think it's fair to say that the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs's decision is not surprising, based on the disease situation in England and the availability of vaccines. And I've already reported on the CVO meetings with industry representatives. I think the advice, I understand, at this point in time—. And we've got the round-table taking place on Thursday. In the meantime, we're encouraging farmers to consider vaccination with their vets and to remain vigilant for the disease and report any suspected cases. 

Good afternoon, Trefnydd. I'd like to focus in again on the issue that was raised by Delyth Jewell in relation to welfare cuts, particularly personal independence payments. Research by my party in Westminster has shown that 90 per cent of individuals in Wales receiving the standard rate of PIP for daily living activities could lose all or part of their benefits. That's staggering. That's 90 per cent of the people here in Wales will potentially have a cut. For many, it's a lifeline. It enables many to maintain their dignity, it supports essential daily tasks such as personal care, staying safe and, for many, remaining in employment. To undermine this support is to strip away the very lifeline that people rely on to be independent. We already have one of the highest poverty rates here in Wales, so I'd like to endorse the call made by Delyth Jewell for us to have a measured, informative and clear debate outlining the Welsh Government's position on this really truly staggering concern that many in our communities echo and we, as their elected representatives, also echo too. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

Diolch yn fawr, Jane Dodds, and thank you for that question. I think it was the First Minister who did report that we're meeting with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions later this week. Of course, we have a great deal of evidence, and you have given more evidence from your research, your party's research. We've talked about the Policy in Practice evidence. I've also referred to the disability equality forum, which I've met, and the evidence that has come forward from disabled people's organisations.

We will, when we meet with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, say that if the disability benefit reforms are to be introduced in their current design, because this is consultation—. We'll stress the importance of the UK Government taking steps to support people who will lose their current benefit income, to prevent them from falling into poverty. I think, when I met with the disability equality forum—. There were people with lived experience—disabled people—who were working who were receiving personal independence payments and who were concerned that they wouldn't be able to work if they didn't have the personal independence payment. I also heard, and I think it's also been clear, that there are issues around waiting lists for Access to Work, for example. So, in terms of Access to Work, where we know we are doing a great deal to support people who wish to and are able to work, there should routes and there should be the support to enable them to access that work.

So, again, I'm grateful for the questions this afternoon. They are all important feedback as we discuss this and, indeed, as I prepare our response to the consultation on the Green Paper and the impacts that we've already learned about, in terms of the changes, cuts, to personal independence payments.  

I have two requests. One is: affordable housing in my constituency is a desperate situation—far too many people trapped in private housing, rented housing, that they can't afford. That's despite the best efforts of Cardiff Council and some social housing landlords, including the YMCA. So, I wondered if we could have a debate in Welsh Government time on the affordable housing taskforce report and recommendations, which was chaired by Lee Waters. I think that there are some really significant points for all of us about how we strengthen the leadership and better coordinate progress on getting more affordable homes, as I know that this is a massive issue.

Secondly, after we last sat, I'm afraid that there was a devastating report on fire and rescue services in south Wales by His Majesty's inspector, Roy Wilsher. This is even more uncomfortable reading, in some respects, than the cultural issues that were covered by the Equality and Social Justice Committee in the report published 12 months ago. I am particularly concerned to read that the organisation is not prioritising risks and is sending firefighters into situations where they simply don't know what the dangers are. So, I wondered if we could have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary, particularly around the issue that was accepted by the Government—to come up with more radical reform proposals for how we improve the governance of our fire and rescue services for the long term, which may require legislation.

Thank you very much, Jenny Rathbone. Of course, we have got the groundbreaking legislation, which was introduced just before our recess, in terms of tackling homelessness and meeting housing need, focusing on prevention and early intervention—that is the major step forward to address those issues in terms of housing need—and the fact that we are actually moving towards, the investment that we are making in our, net zero homes, social housing homes. I think we can all see the impact of that as our local authorities take this forward in our constituencies to meet that very pressing housing need.

On your point about the governance of fire and rescue authorities, the Cabinet Secretary is developing proposals for fire and rescue authority governance reform in discussion with stakeholders, and the Welsh Government will formally consult on those, with a view to introducing changes via secondary legislation before the end of this Senedd term.

Leader of the house, in your own constituency and part of my region, the Vale of Glamorgan Council heard the disappointing news, regarding the levelling-up bid of £20 million, that one of their key partners, Associated British Ports, were withdrawing their support for the project. They'd done a feasibility study on it, and had a third party run the rule over the bid and the projects that were identified for support, and felt that they were unable to support it. This is really worrying and concerning news, because this is the biggest amount of money to go into Wales's biggest town, Barry, that has happened in many years. If we had a Welsh Development Agency-type organisation, I'd be, obviously, seeking advice and support from them on how they could assist the council in making sure that this bid does not fail and whatever confidence that needs to be put into the bid is put on the table and that other commercial partners can be identified for what is a critical piece of redevelopment in the town of Barry. Could we have a statement from the Welsh Government Minister Rebecca Evans, who is responsible for economic regeneration and development in the Welsh Government, as to what assistance the Welsh Labour Government are able to give to the local authority to make sure that this bid does succeed, the £20 million does arrive in Barry, and the regeneration that we all want to see happen on the waterfront goes ahead, and make sure that the jobs that are promised are created? 

Thank you very much, indeed, Andrew R.T. Davies. As you can appreciate, this is my constituency. I did meet with the ABP about this when this news was clearly going to come forward about their withdrawal—very disappointing withdrawal—from the marina proposal as a result of their feasibility study, but I sought assurances from ABP that they have a responsibility towards Barry, to Barry as a port, as a dock and as a place where already—. And I must declare an interest in the ocean water sports development as a member—it's in the register—in terms of my engagement with that. But what's important is to take this forward, to secure the funding from the UK Government as well, working with the Vale of Glamorgan Council as a close partner, for the regeneration, all-important regeneration, of Barry, and I'm obviously working with my MP, Kanishka Narayan, on this as well.

I'd like to ask for two statements, if I may. We all welcomed the completion over the weekend of the dualling project of the A465 Heads of the Valleys road. This is something that's seen tremendous investment over many years and is an investment not simply in a remarkable feat of engineering, but an investment in the communities at the Heads of the Valleys. It's an investment in the economy of the Heads of the Valleys and it's an investment in the future of the Heads of the Valleys. I'd like to see a statement from the Welsh Government on how they intend to ensure that the Heads of the Valleys reap the economic benefit from this investment of Welsh Government. 

I'd like to ask for a statement on the defence review that was published by the UK Government yesterday. We've seen the UK Government investing in the defence of the United Kingdom in the decades to come, and it is important that Wales has the opportunity to contribute to the defence of the United Kingdom, but also benefits from the investment that's being made by the United Kingdom Government in this matter. I would therefore like to call for a statement from the Welsh Government on how we can ensure that Welsh businesses will be able to benefit from this investment. The First Minister visited General Dynamics in Pentrebach some weeks ago now and assured them that the Welsh Government would be backing their investments, and it is important now that we understand how the Welsh Government will be backing the defence sector in the coming months and years.

Diolch yn fawr, Alun Davies, and thank you for that recognition, that strong endorsement, of the impact of Welsh Government funding resulting in the dualling of the Heads of the Valleys road, as we still call it. It was supported by a local supply chain, Future Valleys, spending approximately £400 million in Wales with over £230 million in the Heads of the Valleys region.

I think it is important that you've made the point about the economic impact, but let's recognise that it created 2,200 new jobs, including 765 jobs for disadvantaged workers and 114 jobs for long-term unemployed. I remember visiting when I was finance Minister, and you probably joined me on that. The workforce came from Wales, with 44 per cent from the Heads of the Valleys. In terms of taking this forward and making sure that we capitalise on the completion of the A465, the Cabinet Secretary for economy has asked officials to explore broader opportunities between the Tech Valleys programme and the northern Valleys initiative for co-production and co-investment opportunities on a case-by-case basis. Clearly, that will be working closely with Blaenau Gwent council, as well as the Tech Valleys strategic advisory group.

On your second point, of course, the visit by the First Minister to General Dynamics in Pentrebach was an expression of our recognition of how defence plays such a vital role in helping to strengthen Wales's resilience, but also in terms of the role of the industry and defence, the jobs and companies that we work with who are highly valued as partners, but also working very closely now with the UK Government and the Ministry of Defence to seek opportunities for investment in the defence sector in Wales. Also, we are working with the UK Government on the defence industrial strategy, which is due to be published shortly. This will include more information on plans to implement the strategic defence review.

And finally, Natasha Asghar.

Thank you so much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I please request a statement from the Deputy First Minister on the Welsh Government's progress in bringing forward a new law before the summer to improve and protect biodiversity? Prior to recess, I met with a local campaigner whose name is Aidan Dempsey, a young man who is a passionate advocate for the Gwent Wildlife Trust, Magor marshes, and the entirety of the Gwent levels site of special scientific interest. He is doing an incredible job lobbying politicians to speak up for the Gwent levels before it is indeed too late. Aidan shared with me the eco-anxiety that he experiences and his concerns about the growing number of solar farms proliferating across the ancient Gwent levels area. I recognise the dedication and advocacy of John Griffiths. He has indeed shown a lot throughout his time here in the Senedd in support of the Gwent levels. However, the urgency to protect these ancient and unique areas from development appears to be lacking. I call on the Deputy First Minister to make a statement, nailing his Government's colours to the mast and pledging that areas such as the Gwent levels will be protected and preserved for generations to come. Thank you.

Diolch yn fawr. I do not think you have any difficulties with the Deputy First Minister's support for the wonderful Gwent levels. It is indeed welcome to hear of a young person's interest in his local environment. Diolch yn fawr, and thank you, Natasha.

I thank the Trefnydd.

Item 3 today is the statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs on the Environment (Principles, Governance and Biodiversity Targets) (Wales) Bill.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. It's a huge pleasure to introduce today the Environment (Principles, Governance and Biodiversity Targets) (Wales) Bill. It is a landmark piece of legislation that represents a significant step forward in our commitment to addressing the pressing climate and nature emergencies.

This step is crucial given the context. Recent years have seen a rise in severe weather incidents leading to floods, heatwaves, drought and wildfires. It has been devastating to communities and ecosystems across Wales. With one in six species now at risk of extinction in Wales, it has never been more important to restore nature, mitigate climate change and preserve the natural environment for future generations. This legislation forms a critical part of our future approach to doing just that, and it will do so by providing the framework to address three core challenges. Firstly, it will strengthen our approach to addressing the combined impact of the climate and nature emergencies. Secondly, it will strengthen and support wider policy and legislation designed to protect the environment from harm. And thirdly, it will revamp our governance structures, following the UK's departure from the EU, in a way that is most suitable in the context of the unique Welsh legislative landscape.

The Bill is divided into three distinct but complementary parts that will work in tandem to address these challenges. The first Part of the Bill introduces an environmental objective and four key environmental principles into Welsh law. The environmental objective expresses the policy ambition of this legislation and guides both the work of the new environmental governance body and the application of the environmental principles. The objective is framed around the attainment of a high level of environmental protection and improvement of the environment. It also recognises the need to integrate with the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 and the Environment (Wales) Act 2017, and the need to address climate change and the decline in biodiversity. This provides strategic focus that frames, in fact, all elements of the Bill.

Part 1 also establishes the four environmental principles in Welsh legislation. These are the precautionary principle, the prevention principle, the rectification at source principle, and the polluter pays principle, in law. Crucially, these principles will be supported by express duties on the Welsh Ministers, all of us, and Natural Resources Wales, when making policy, to have special regard—special regard—to them, and to integrate environmental protection. This provides a holistic approach that will ensure environmental protection and the principles are embedded at a formative stage and throughout the development of policies that impact upon the environment. This approach is further supported by requiring certain public authorities to have regard to the environmental principles and to integrate environmental protection when carrying out functions in connection with strategic environmental assessments. This complements the strategic policy-making duties on the Welsh Ministers and Natural Resources Wales by improving consistency and consideration of the principles when significant environmental impact is anticipated.

The second Part of the Bill establishes the office of environmental governance Wales, OEGW, as a body providing the strategic oversight of the effectiveness of environmental law, as well as providing powers for the OEGW to ensure compliance by public authorities in Wales with that law. Now, the necessity to establish this body following our departure from the EU also presents us with an opportunity to enable more encompassing and more responsive oversight of environmental law in Wales.

So, the oversight will be inherently co-operative rather than authoritarian, and it's designed so that enforcement is escalatory. This reflects the need to work collaboratively with public bodies to address the impacts of environmental harm and also to build capacity and capability to operate more effectively in future. But this approach does not mean that the governance body has no teeth. Whilst we expect the OEGW to consider collaborative approaches to resolve their concerns with environmental law, where this is not feasible or appropriate, the OEGW will have powers to issue compliance notices, compelling public authorities to take specified action. And, of course, the OEGW can escalate non-compliance to the High Court if necessary, to seek an order for compliance.

OEGW’s purpose is broader than taking enforcement action against non-compliance. It also has a critical role in assessing whether the law itself, and measures to support the law, are effective, and in setting out proposals for improvement. So, the Bill provides the OEGW with the tools needed to monitor, to report, and to recommend improvements to the effectiveness of environmental law, ensuring that the whole system is fit for purpose.

The scope of the OEGW oversight extends to public authorities in Wales as defined by the Bill, which includes the Welsh Ministers. As it will be overseeing Welsh Ministers, its independence from Welsh Government is very important for its effective operation, and we have taken opportunities throughout the Bill to ensure that the OEGW can effectively hold the Welsh Ministers and wider public authorities to account.

As governance bodies have already been established to cover England, Northern Ireland and Scotland, we have also engaged constructively with our counterparts across the UK, and we've adopted several lessons into our approach.

The OEGW will take time to establish, and until it is fully operational, to make clear, the Interim Environmental Protection Assessor for Wales, the IEPAW, will continue to consider environmental law issues and to provide recommendations.

The third Part of the Bill, Dirprwy Lywydd, establishes a target-setting framework and grants the Welsh Ministers a power to set, in secondary legislation, targets that are designed to halt and reverse the decline in biodiversity, and in particular through increasing the abundance of native species, or enhancing the resilience of ecosystems, or increasing genetic diversity. Detailed plans outlining the actions needed to achieve these targets will be produced to ensure transparency and accountability. Regular evaluation reports will also assess the impact and the effectiveness of these policies at contributing towards achieving the targets, providing that basis for continuous improvement.

And the Bill requires the Welsh Ministers to lay before the Senedd draft targets to be set as a matter of priority that focus on: reducing the risk of extinction of native species; the effective management of ecosystems; reducing pollution; and the quality of evidence to inform decisions relating to biodiversity, access to that evidence, and its use and its application. The Bill also places a duty on Welsh Ministers to take steps to promote awareness in Wales of the importance of biodiversity and of the threats to biodiversity. Encouraging positive change will be essential for the success of our environmental objectives.

The Environment (Principles, Governance and Biodiversity Targets) (Wales) Bill represents a comprehensive and forward-thinking approach to environmental governance, building on our existing legislative framework to address the urgent challenges of climate change and biodiversity loss. By embedding environmental principles into our policy making, by establishing the OEGW and setting ambitious biodiversity targets, this Bill will ensure that Wales continues to lead the way in environmental protection and sustainability development.

Dirprwy Lywydd, the process leading to this moment has involved extensive policy work, co-design, consultation, and stakeholder engagement over several years. I would like to put on record my sincere thanks to all the stakeholders who have contributed towards the development of this Bill.

I hope that my colleagues will recognise this opportunity to safeguard our natural environment, ensuring that we continue to act decisively to protect the well-being of our nation and our planet. Thank you very much.

I welcome your statement today and also the introduction of this Bill. It's fair to say that Wales has been lagging behind in terms of our biodiversity targets. Really, I feel this is a little too little too late, but again we will have to see when we completely scrutinise and challenge this Bill going forward.

A 2024 World Wildlife Fund report found that the wild global populations of mammals, birds, amphibians, reptiles and fish had dropped by 73 per cent since 1970, with nearly one in six species being threatened with extinction in Great Britain. Wales saw an average 20 per cent decline in the population of monitored species between 1994 and 2023. That is actually over a period of time that you have been here as the Welsh Labour Government in this institution. We now know that it ranks 224 out of 240 other countries on the Natural History Museum's biodiversity intactness index. We're amongst the lowest 10 per cent in the world. Wales is the last of the UK nations to establish an environmental governance board. Now, one of the aims of this Bill is to address the decline of biodiversity, yet the need for urgency isn't actually as well contained as it might be. As a previous climate change committee report highlighted, this is currently lacking from the Welsh Government, and there are genuine concerns by other environmental bodies about delivery. There are concerns regarding the lack of staff being in some of our enforcement bodies, such as NRW, and whether they are well placed to deliver these biodiversity targets. As has being said earlier today, we really do have poor enforcement here in Wales on land, water and river pollution, so I encourage the Cabinet Secretary to treat the biodiversity decline with a sense of urgency with the implementation of this Bill.

You mentioned about the four key principles, two of which are the new environmental governance body, which we've been calling for for years, and, of course, the improvement of environmental and climate change. It also needs to be acknowledged that the climate change committee has concluded that it is an unforgivable failure of this Welsh Government that the new office of environmental governance Wales body is not fully operational yet, and you're expecting it to be fully operational by the time of the next election. I'd like some reassurances on your timelines in that regard. You also need to provide more reassurance to us, please, that each organisation, i.e. the OEGW and NRW—that their functions do not overlap, causing duplication. It should also be noted there needs to be greater reassurance in regard to the funding of the OEGW, as well as that it's supported in addressing the intended areas and not to become overstretched, as is often used by you, Minister, when challenged on matters of environmental governance.

There's not any particular detail, and we'll be looking more for this as we go on through the Bill, of the scale of the OEGW's mandate. It should also be noted that the Bill sets out the requirements in appointing a person as a non-executive member, but they have to show capability in environmental law and policy, environmental science, investigatory and enforcement proceedings. That's very vague, indeed, so we're hoping that will build as the Bill goes forward.

There's very little in terms of data collection and targets set, and I know that some environmental bodies have asked for these targets to be set on the front of the Bill.

I'd like to encourage the Cabinet Secretary to ensure that this Bill is not rushed through, because you've left it rather late in our electoral cycle, if you like, in terms of this term. We need a pragmatic, common-sense approach in the use of our taxpayers' money, so I would encourage the Cabinet Secretary to ensure that the environmental principles and objectives in this Bill do pay full attention to the marine environment and how it needs to be protected while we implement the infrastructure needed to reduce our emissions. Again, how will this impact on our sea life, our mammals and birds? As shown in the Independent Water Commissioner's report released today, there should be provisions made within this Bill to establish and oversee a more consistent long-term direction for the provision of water supply and water waste removal. The commission highlights that, too often, policy has been shaped by short-term pressure rather than sustained, coherent planning, so we cannot allow a Bill to go forward that just compromises that.

The Bill and the function of the—

You need to conclude now, Janet.

Yes, okay. So, I look forward to scrutinising this legislation in more detail going forward, and ensuring that this Bill in particular will meet the objectives of protecting our environment and addressing the worrying biodiversity decline. Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Janet. There are many, many points you raised there. And just to say, I'm very keen to work with you and all other Members as this Bill proceeds. I think it's in very good shape already, but there will be things to tease out as well.

You mentioned, in your opening remarks there, 'What have we been doing? Why are we behind England, Northern Ireland, Scotland?' But, look, we may be behind other UK nations, but actually we've been able to learn the lessons from them as well—what's been good and what we can actually go further on as well, and that'll be interesting to discuss with you on the committee, because there are areas where this Bill actually goes further than Scotland and Northern Ireland and England and makes it a more powerful framework, and actually the powers of the body—. For example, if I can say to you just one, there are powers within this to enforce urgent compliance—not just compliance, but urgent compliance. [Interruption.] They don't exist. So, we can tease some of these things out as it goes forward.

But I do note as well, in terms of—. You asked me to do two particular things. One to move ahead with urgency on this Bill, and, secondly, to make sure that we have sufficient time to actually deliver it as well, and to go through everything. Well, I'm keen that we do that, and in the committee process, I'm very keen that we explore all these things. But you are right. We said we would bring this forward, and we would be bringing it forward within the Senedd term we are doing it. We do now need to proceed with urgency with this very well-crafted Bill that is a direct result of extensive and ongoing engagement with stakeholders, to refine and craft this, so that it is ready, then, to take through in this Senedd term. So, I'm really keen to work with you and others to do that.

You mentioned about NRW and additional resources, and, look, it would be churlish of me to reflect on the past decade and more, and what's happened, not just with NRW, but with the Environment Agency in England as well, but it has been a direct result of the withdrawal of funding from central Government, and we weren't in power at that point. But I'm really pleased to say, on the back of the uplift in the budget, which was voted through recently, we are actually able, as part of that, to commit to additional funding for NRW, not just for enforcement, but for boots on the ground to actually engage, and the regulatory function that they have as well—. And it's the first time in many years that we've been able to do that, and we will keep on doing that, while resources allow as well.

You mentioned the timeline. Sorry—. Just to say, it's not that we've been doing nothing, Dirprwy Lywydd and Janet. Here in Wales, over the last few years, we have directly responded to the challenges of the climate and nature emergencies. We've prioritised reform via agricultural subsidy. We've introduced new clean air legislation. We've progressed the implementation of a new net-zero target. We've set out a pathway to deliver it. We've created new grants for nature restoration. We've radically redirected our transport expenditure. We've made planning reforms, and we've supported investments in meeting water quality targets. But what this does is it takes us to that next step in a strategic approach to environmental protection, and restoring and replenishing our biodiversity and abundance of species. That's what this Bill is about.

Just to say, this Bill is not about—and let's please not, in the urgency we need to take this forward, try to hang lots of baubles on it—water supplies and waste water. There are other ways we can actually do that, not least the PR24 system, which has impacted on bill payers across Wales, but actually, as you know, has a massive investment front-loaded now in the old, antiquated, Victorian sewer system. But it's also what we do in the back, and I really hope for your support for Professor Susannah Bolton's recommendations as well, in the control of agricultural pollution. [Interruption.] Sorry, was that a 'yes'? It's a 'maybe'.

That was, 'Not—[Inaudible.]—the agricultural industry.'

It was a 'Hmm'. Thank you.

Thank you to the Deputy First Minister. I do welcome this legislation. Of course, it is long-awaited, because, as you've acknowledged, for years Wales has been behind the curve, and we've been an unfortunate exception in terms of environmental governance.

I acknowledge what you said; perhaps we can learn lessons from what's been done in some of the other nations. I hope that that will be something that we can look at as a committee too. But the gap has existed between us and the other nations on these isles for some years now, and at last I welcome the fact that we're now bridging that gap, because this Senedd was amongst the first legislatures in the world to declare a nature emergency. That was almost four years ago. So, the need for targets for nature is clear, and I'd like to see urgent action by the Government on that.

I am concerned that if there is more delay now before the targets are introduced, perhaps we won't be able to reach the 30x30 target, and none of us wants to be in a position where we are setting targets with just two years to go before they are meant to be achieved, because nature is in a state of crisis. The state of nature report revealed the fact that one in every six species is in danger of being lost.

Species that used to be common in our countryside, like the curlew, the water vole, species of butterfly and bumblebee, including the shrill carder bee that I'm species champion of—they're all at risk. With the shrill carder bee, only a handful of sites across the UK remain where they can make a habitat, and one of them, of course, is the Gwent levels, which is so crucial to our biodiversity. So, the framework of this Bill must capture the need to reverse those trends.

And I do welcome so much of what is in here. Of course, all of us will want to counter the risk of fine words and good intentions paving the way to a hellscape then devoid of all those things that make our world rich, diverse and beautiful. I'd ask the Government why there is no headline target in the Bill to do just that, to drive urgent action to reverse biodiversity loss. I know organisations including the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, Wales Environment Link, the World Wide Fund for Nature and Friends of the Earth Cymru have all called for this, and I support the call of some of those organisations for a requirement to be added to the Bill for a target to reverse the decline in species abundance by 2035, because that would embed that much-needed urgency that you have been talking about, Dirprwy Brif Weinidog, into this Bill. As RSPB have warned, passing this Bill will be one of the last things to be done in this Senedd term. We have to make sure it leaves no room for doubt as to the urgency or scale of the task.

As WWF and other members of the Wales Environment Link have argued, the Bill should also be setting time frames for wider targets in secondary legislation. Legislation in England requires long-term targets, defining them as being at least 15 years. Surely this Bill should mirror that? And there is another major concern that's been voiced by some of those groups, which is that the duty to apply environmental principles only applies to policies that affect the environment, which is weaker than the approach taken in the other UK nations, where the duty applies to all policy making. Again, alluding to what's already been said this afternoon, I wonder whether you could confirm whether the duty applies to budget decisions.

Likewise, the duty on public authorities only applies in relation to strategic environmental assessments, and that doesn't clearly explain what that means in practice. If you could give us some concrete examples of that, that would be very useful, please.

What's more, the Bill, as it's drafted, says that the principle statement should be reviewed again. This has come up already from time to time, and, again, that does seem to be a little vague.

There are also concerns as to how the oversight body will operate. There's no guarantee about the body's independence, and the legislation contains limited information about what the body can do. This could lead to a future  Government limiting accountability. It opens the door to that. We need certainty in the legislation about the body's independence and the expectation that it will be adequately funded, and I'd like to see the body being empowered so that it can collaborate with bodies in the other nations, to hear complaints by members of the public, to advise Ministers, and not just about the implementation of environmental legislation, but how effective that legislation is.

So, to conclude, Deputy Presiding Officer, this is an important step forward, and I truly welcome the work that has gone into this Bill and to everyone involved in that work. I hope there will be scope for us as a committee and for us as a party to work with the Government in submitting amendments, because everybody should have the right to access a healthy environment and clean air. Thank you.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Delyth, and thank you for your welcome of this Bill. And, again, I'll repeat my intention here to work with you and others as this Bill goes forward to explore some of these issues in real detail as we go into committee as well.

But just to turn to a few of the matters that you've touched on there, the target setting here is going to be a critical part of this and getting it absolutely right, and my predecessor in this role, Julie James, has made clear that we need to make sure that they reflected the drop-down from the UN goals and targets, but also didn't replicate what we were already doing. So, we've set up a target advisory group; we're keen to work with them, and they understand not only the importance of getting the right target, but also the timeline for delivering this as well. If we rush ahead and we pick targets somewhat out of the sky, we might well have targets that measure inputs, such as investment in certain areas, but not the right outcomes; they might well be ones that duplicate and so on. So, I'm keen to work with and rely on some of the expert advice that is coming out of that advisory group, including on the timing as well.

So, just to be absolutely clear here, on the target setting within regulation, it will be a necessity for Welsh Ministers to seek advice from independent experts. The engagement and the co-design with those key experts and stakeholders is going to be critical on the target-setting process and the specific targets. That biodiversity target advisory panel will ensure and it will enhance the transparency and the rigour in that target creation. It has got independent expertise, it provides evidence-based advice and recommendations and, by the way, peer review as well. So, we're really trying to get this right, because if we pick the wrong targets, we could be diverting resource and effort into areas that are either duplicating or going in the wrong direction.

The panel does include, as has been mentioned before, people from various disciplines—water, economy, education, social research, biodiversity, terrestrial, freshwater and marine, Janet, as well. And we have not only academics, but the Joint Nature Conservation Committee are on there, NRW are on there, and people with expertise in monitoring and modelling and practical management and policies.

We have that commitment to bring these targets. Make no mistake, we're committed to bringing forward these targets with the required pace and urgency. The targets will be time bound, they'll be action focused, and they'll be explicitly clear over what we need to do to restore nature.

We do recognise, though, and when we appeared in front of committee before, some of the concerns expressed, and by stakeholders as well, as to whether we can actually develop some of these targets, recognising what I just said, with a bit more pace. I can confirm that my officials are working at pace with those stakeholders to identify options for reducing the time frame where possible, but not by sacrificing the end result of getting the right targets to focus on.

You mentioned a wide range of other things there, including the independence of the OEGW. We recognise, as I said in my opening remarks, that the independence is absolutely crucial, so that's why the Bill includes specific areas that aim to strengthen this independence. So, let me be first of all clear that there's going to be no direct Government control over the OEGW.

Let me give you an example: Welsh Ministers will not be able to dictate what the OEGW does and what it does not do. We could ask, for example, if the OEGW could provide advice to help inform our policy development, but the OEGW is not obliged to do so. This, by the way, is a contrast with across the border with the OEP in England, where they must provide advice. They must respond to the request from a Minister on changes to environmental law if requested. The OEGW with us will make its own decision as to whether they think it's a priority for them to do. And Welsh Ministers will have no role in signing off the OEGW's strategy. Instead, this will be informed by public consultation. It will be wholly owned by the OEGW.

We've put accountability mechanisms in there to provide transparency to the Senedd, and in particular to facilitate scrutiny by Senedd Members to support its independence from Ministers. For example, OEGW will need to publish reports and findings that can be laid before the Senedd. It'll be subject to scrutiny regularly by Senedd committees, particularly those with environmental oversight functions.

Whilst we are responsible for appointing the board, with the expertise that has been mentioned earlier on, we'll do so on the basis of recommendations from a panel that is majority comprised of independent interviewers. All other appointments will be made by the OEGW itself. Welsh Ministers must consult the Senedd before appointing the chair and the deputy chair. So, we've really gone to town on strengthening the independence and the distance from Government and letting it do its own thing.

And just to say as well, because I know some other Members have said this, we can do a lot of this, we can put this legislation in place, we can set the path for the secondary regulation going forward, well, in terms of the OEGW, it's established by legislation. Let me make it clear: it can only be repealed by legislation with the approval of the Senedd. So, that's a bit of a cast-iron guarantee there. Diolch yn fawr. 

I agree with the importance of learning from other environmental regulators who've already legislated on this matter, and to learn from any potential mistakes that they've made—that seems entirely sound. But we do need to get on with it now, because, in Wales, we've not had any organisation able to prosecute, for example, constructors who fail to install swift boxes on buildings, which is obviously a particular concern to me as the swift champion.

I completely agree with your precautionary, prevention, rectification and polluter-pays principles. I now want to understand how this is going to improve the sorry situation of our water, which is of huge concern to the public. In particular, looking at Sir Jon Cunliffe's interim report, published today, I was really interested to see that he highlighted the rainscape scheme in Llanelli, which has done a great deal and is being considerably invested in by Dŵr Cymru to prevent rainwater going into the sewage systems. This seems to be one of the targets that we must get all local authorities and all public bodies stepping up to the plate on, because it's completely pointless to use one of our most important assets as if it was something that came out of the toilet.

You need to conclude now, please, Jenny.

I wondered if you could tell us how you think targets you're going to set for public bodies can be focused on preserving water rather than always just putting it into the sewage system, which then often ends up in the rivers and seas.

Thank you, Jenny. I think this is a measure of the difference that this legislation will make, because we're already doing things in the water space, but the ability of—. And I agree with you. Thank you for welcoming that—the principles that underpin this and the establishment of the OEGW, with their responsibility to look at it in a strategic and systems-based way. I'm not saying they will, and it's for them to do with their independent judgment, but they could turn their attention to how is our environmental law protecting, or otherwise, our water quality. They can do that, and they can then make recommendations to say, 'You need to do it in this way'.

There are other pieces outside of that that we don't have to wait for: the work that's been done by Professor Susannah Bolton on the control of agricultural pollution; the water summit approach we're doing, where we're really ramping up the focus on outcomes now; and the work of the nutrient management boards. But what this difference will make is the ability of an independent oversight body to say, 'This is working' or, 'This is not', and that is extremely powerful.

The other aspect, as you rightly touched on, is the ability of the citizen to say to them, 'You might want to look at this, because it's not working well'. We know the big public clamour around water quality, in all different parts of Wales, for different reasons, and in different river catchments as well. But this body is also able to pursue investigations, and to say, 'We can see something happening here that doesn't seem to work on a systems basis'. I think that's the power of this that we don't currently have, that we haven't had since we left the European Union.

On that basis, I think this is where it brings it all together, and they can look at whether it's water quality or whether it's other systemic issues, and say, 'The environmental law is not being implemented adequately, it's not designed properly; we think you should be doing it in a different way'. And also, by the way, their powers of urgent compliance, different in this legislation from other legislation—that they can say, 'We want to see a response within seven days'. That's quite significant. But, again, I look forward, Dirprwy Lywydd, to exploring these in more detail now, as we take this through the stages, subject to the will of the Senedd.

Forgive me, Deputy First Minister, I'm slightly nervous of framework Bills giving powers to Ministers to do things through secondary legislation. But putting that aside, firstly, I just wondered, with the OEP operating in both England and Northern Ireland, why did you wish to come up with your own OEGW, duplicating a lot of the costs when it comes to this? How are you ensuring that any new measures are both fair and workable for Welsh farmers? I have concerns around how the Bill might interact with the forthcoming sustainable farming scheme. There is a risk that it could serve as a back door to SFS-style obligations, even for those who choose not to take part in the SFS. While the SFS is voluntary, this Bill introduces legally binding biodiversity targets. The key question therefore is will these targets apply to all land managers, regardless of whether they're part of the SFS. And, finally, a precursor to this Bill was the biodiversity deep-dive. For transparency, can you outline how many of the organisations that took part in the deep-dive currently receive Welsh Government funding? Given that over 80 per cent of Wales is agricultural land, why were the farming unions excluded from that biodiversity deep-dive?

Of all the contributions so far, this is the first one, Sam, to my surprise, that has picked up some scepticism of what we're trying to do and of the target setting. Yes, the targets will be binding. That's why we have biodiversity targets, so that they are binding. [Interruption.] Sorry—

Try and avoid having a conversation, please. Let the Deputy First Minister answer the questions. 

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. For a long time, a wide range of stakeholders have called on us—in fact, we've heard it from your own benches—to get on with this and actually put those targets in place, put the environmental governance body in place. And yes, of course, it's binding, and it will be for all Members here throughout to agree whether this is the right way forward or not.

But you also raise the issue—along with that degree of scepticism—about the funding of those stakeholders who've previously been involved in the deep-dive into biodiversity. I would simply say that part of the reason that we have got to this place today, where we can actually bring forward really intelligent, well-designed biodiversity targets with a target advisory group, is because of the precursor to that of the work that was done with those participants. That was very important. I note the tone of your contribution, how much funding that they had and whatever. Clearly, I would not have that to hand, but by all means put in a question to me and so on. But it seems to suggest that this was not worth doing. I would argue to you that it was very worth doing, Sam, because it's got us to this place today.

You ask why it's a stand-alone body for Wales. That's a really good question. We looked at alternatives: could we take an existing body in Wales, such as NRW? Could we look at using one of the other bodies? As I mentioned in my opening remarks, however, there is a unique policy context here in Wales. We are the only nation with well-being of future generations legislation. We have a specific approach in terms of, for example, river quality through the river summits and so on. There is a range of reasons why we need a stand-alone body here in Wales.

Secondly, to have NRW or another organisation marking its own homework in terms of not environmental regulation and enforcement, but actually marking its own homework in how it's helping drive towards biodiversity restoration targets and so on—. All of the stakeholder engagement, Sam, which I am sure you will have read, and the consultation responses, showed that there was a need for a body in Wales that had independence—the point that's been raised already—that could stand alone, had clear independence, had oversight across public bodies and Welsh Ministers as well. I am the sponsoring Minister for NRW. How does NRW then hold me to account? This body has the ability to point the finger at public bodies, including the Welsh Government. It is a Welsh version of what is happening in Scotland, Ireland and so on. Hopefully that will meet with the support of Members here.

There were other aspects you mentioned, but I hope you will support this going forward whilst we explore some of these issues. But I think this is absolutely the right approach to have—an environmental governance body that can have oversight right across public bodies, setting targets in place and having those principles enshrined within legislation. 

This Bill is a major milestone, and I'm always reassured that this Welsh Labour Government cares about the environment, and most of the Members of the Senedd as well. The targets come under the next Senedd. So, could you reassure me regarding timelines for those targets and reassure me that this Bill will cover that? Regarding public authorities, will the environmental principles be clear to them, that they need to apply them when setting budgets and across all departments, including transport, planning and education? And could you tell me what you have learnt with coming after Scotland and England when setting this Bill? What have you been able to do to improve it going forward? Thank you.

Thank you very much, Carolyn, and thanks for your welcome for this. Certainly, in terms of the targets, if we overly shorten the timescale for targets, we could be, as I mentioned before, in the difficulty of setting targets that either weren't achievable or were the wrong targets. But we will set in place the way ahead for those targets in regulations here within this Senedd, so that will be bolted down. If any future Government wanted to undo that, they'd have to come back and actually undo that, and make it clear to the Senedd. They'd have to face the will of the Senedd. But we will bolt that down here, subject to the will of this Senedd, as we take this forward.

I've mentioned already some of the ways in which we've learned from what's gone on elsewhere. So, some of the strengthening that we've done around the independence of the OEGW, there are measures within this, for example, with those teeth of the OEGW, to enforce compliance, but, different from other legislation within other parts of the UK, this also has urgent compliance within it. And there are other aspects within this that we have learned from the examples that have gone before, and we have taken the time to engage with them, collaborate with them, understand what they've done and what they might do differently if they were to do it again. So, we’ve built that within this approach, going forward.

But, yes, just to be clear, I know there is—and I know you have spoken to me as well about—concern about doing as much on the targets as we possibly can this side. We are very keen, actually, as this goes forward, to flesh out the work that the advisory group on targets is doing, to flesh out the timescales they can work to, what those targets might look like and to do as much of that this side of the Bill, even though the actual target setting then will come when the next Minister is sitting in this seat to actually determine.

And finally, Joyce Watson.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I certainly do welcome the introduction of this Bill. In June 2021, the Welsh Government, or Wales, was the first Parliament to declare a nature emergency. So, I’m really, really pleased that we’re getting to this point. Now, why did we do it? One in six species in Wales is currently at risk of extinction, and I warmly welcome the inclusion of targets in the Bill. But we have to do this. We have no choice. Nature is declining at an alarming rate, as is the biodiversity that supports it. So, we have to make it obligatory for public bodies to publish nature recovery plans and make a positive move forward. It’s also important, of course, that public bodies play a key role in reversing the nature crisis and that their actions are fully transparent and also accountable. I think having an independent body, which has been talked about significantly already, to act if those targets aren’t being met is absolutely of importance. And, like others, I've had lots of e-mails from organisations expressing concerns—

You need to ask the question now, please, Joyce.

I will, thank you. But nature can't wait. So, Cabinet Secretary, can you assure all of the people who have contacted us that this new office will have powers to act decisively—that's the question here—to tackle the many challenges that our natural world is facing? And are you able to give any details on when this will come into force?

Yes, indeed. On the issue of decisiveness, yes, and I think that that decisiveness will come through that independence that they have, that they can make their own decisions and that they have that oversight across public bodies as well. So, this will be a very powerful body and it will also, of course, have oversight over Welsh Ministers as well. Now, that is a real step-change, and it's a step-change as well—. Sometimes we talk in the abstract of legislation, but it's a step-change for the people of Wales, their ability to go to that organisation, or for that organisation to independently examine an area and say, 'This is not good enough; you need to be doing more within that space.'

And yes, I can give you that certainty as well that, subject to the will of this Senedd, we will put in place all the pieces that can take this legislation forward—so, the principles that are so important to this, the establishment of that organisation. So, two weeks from Royal Assent, that body will be, in effect, established. It'll take time, by the way, to put it in place, because you have to do the logistics, all the normal things that a body needs to get up and operating, including the appointments of chair and deputy chair and board, and the bringing in of the expertise that they need as well, and that will take time, but we’ll have put in place the legislation to do it, and we will also be well on the way to developing those targets as well. And I can give you this assurance, as I’ll give to everybody here in this Chamber and outside: we'll keep doing this in a collaborative way. We want to develop the best Bill we possibly can, and the best Bill that is fit for the context in Wales, where we have led on environmental legislation, we've led on future generations legislation, and this will be the next big step forward.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

Item 4 is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice on Volunteers’ Week. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Jane Hutt.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. In every corner of Wales, from our cities, towns, valleys and villages, volunteers are the unsung heroes who dedicate their time, energy and passion to make a difference.

Their selfless acts of kindness and unwavering commitment are the lifeblood that sustain our society, fostering a spirit of unity and compassion. An estimated 27 per cent of people in Wales are doing formal volunteering with charities and other volunteer-involving organisations, but many more people are known to be volunteering informally in the hearts of the communities in which they live.

Over this Senedd term, we've continued to see the very best in people and communities, not just in the day-to-day contribution from volunteers, but also their help and response to the pandemic and emerging situations such as flooding. The voluntary response to those fleeing conflict in Ukraine, Syria and Afghanistan has been exceptional. Of course, such major events are a very strong call to action, but there are also lots of people responding to events closer to home, giving up their time to make a difference. From trustees to school governors, blood bike riders to mountain rescue teams, environmental initiatives, fun run organisers to litter pickers, people giving comfort and support over the phone or simply helping elderly neighbours in practical ways, there are so many ways for people to give help and there’s something for everyone to do. That is the Welsh way.

Earlier today, I met the current and future generation of volunteers as part of the Power of Youth Day, a time when we can recognise, celebrate and champion the impact that younger people make at a local, regional, national and international level. And Volunteers' Week is one of the occasions when we celebrate all those who help in Wales. Volunteering plays an essential part in our access to the services and the support that we all depend on and use at some time in our lives. Whilst people give up their time freely, they must be supported and safeguarded. This requires an ongoing investment. We're committed to investing in people, investing in our communities, investing in Wales. Since April 2022, we have invested over £4.6 million in volunteering, enabling over 419,000 recorded hours of volunteering and training for 6,710 people.

Our long-running Volunteering Wales grant to support volunteers and enable volunteering has enabled the likes of the Wales Refugee Council to gain 63 active volunteers, contributing 4,744 hours of support in roles including English for speakers of other languages, ESOL, employability, playgroups, fundraising, triage, reception, advocates and peer mentors. Our strategic Volunteering Wales grant provides the space to enable organisations to try new approaches, such as Innovate Trust’s Waleswide volunteering hub. This has enabled Innovate Trust to develop a hub that features easy-to-understand guidance, inspiring stories and tailored opportunities. By empowering individuals with learning disabilities, it's also allowed Innovate Trust to foster inclusion, skill building and meaningful engagement, ensuring volunteering remains accessible and impactful within the community.

Finally, we are investing in young people with our youth-led grant. We know that experiencing volunteering from an early age can develop young people, involve them in their community and get them hooked on volunteering for life, and this grant provides young people a platform to become decision makers, allocating funding for youth-led volunteering that takes place in communities across Wales.

Volunteers and volunteering do not stand still, and the world around us is changing fast. That's why, with the encouragement of the third sector partnership council and the collaborative support of the Wales Council for Voluntary Action, we've developed a new approach to volunteering, due to be launched at Gofod3 in July. The approach, which is a progressive development, moving on from the traditional policy on volunteering, has been co-developed across the public, private and third sectors. It provides a vision of how we all want volunteering to be: a way of life at the heart of Wales’s national identity. The vision is a call to action across all sectors and, to drive its delivery, the new approach provides a practical tool for groups and organisations in every sector and at every level to make positive changes in support of volunteering.

I recognise, as will many in the Siambr, that volunteering doesn’t happen in isolation; the infrastructure that enables and supports volunteering itself needs support, so Third Sector Support Wales is there to help the over 40,000 organisations that involve and promote volunteering in Wales. We also continue to support Tempo time credits, which enable organisations to provide a little 'thank you' in recognition of the help that a volunteer has given. Since 2022, nearly 150,000 time credits have been provided to over 6,100 active volunteers, with 50 new groups in priority areas being established. Important as these parts of the support infrastructure are, there is, of course a great deal of voluntary action that takes place without the help of time credits or grants, activity being delivered by the sheer determination of good people in their communities, people with the will to make a difference.

There is still more that we plan to do in this Senedd term. The new vision will bring to life the kinds of values that people in Wales care about deeply: equity, diversity, inclusion and Welsh identity and culture, alongside hard work, achievement and a willingness to help others. I would like to end by, once again, expressing my thanks to all of those for the help they give as volunteers. We live in a better world and society because of it.

I welcome the Cabinet Secretary’s statement today, and fully support the recognition of the remarkable contribution that volunteers make across Wales during this year’s Volunteers' Week. In my region, and right across the country, our volunteers are the beating heart of our community, giving time, energy and commitment to helping others. There are far too many to mention individually, but I’d like to take this opportunity to thank them all.

I do want to, however, shine a light today on the incredible work and dedication of one individual. Her name is Jean Williams. She has been a Brown Owl in First Usk Brownie pack for 59 years now, which I just think epitomises dedication, really. She has seen generation upon generation of girls go through my local town, me being one of them—so, people before and after me. It’s quite hard to comprehend the amount of girls who have been through that Brownie pack while she’s been leading it. She’s given so much of her time, shaping young minds and teaching them good skills, as well as ensuring that they have lots of fun. It’s an incredible achievement and I’m sure that the Cabinet Secretary would recognise that too.

There are so many benefits of people, younger and older, putting themselves forward for volunteering roles in so many forms, and it’s what makes our communities work and it’s what makes our world go round. In a world that focuses on negatives, Cabinet Secretary, don’t you agree with me that incredible people like Jean Williams need to be celebrated as fantastic role models for our young people and to us all? Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr, Laura Anne Jones, and thank you for your support for volunteering in Wales. This is a time to celebrate, isn't it, those volunteers like Jean Williams, the Brown Owl, and it's important that you named her, and I name her as well, in terms of her work and dedication, as you described. So, it is a chance this afternoon to thank and recognise volunteers that we know are at the heart of our communities. And I think the point you make is also that it's very much a two-way thing, the benefits of volunteering, because I'm sure that Jean herself will have got an awful lot of great feedback and enjoyment about her engagement, all those young people who've benefited from Brown Owl.

So, I think this is a really good point to make that, all over Wales, every day and night, good people are giving help for free, where they feel it is needed, where they want to make a contribution. And it's wonderful to know that, actually, 27 per cent of people in Wales are doing formal volunteering with charities and other volunteer-involving organisations. Thank you for that positive contribution.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. In every community, volunteers give of their time, their energy, and their kindness to help those in difficulty and those who are in need. They provide practical support, companionship, and, more than anything, hope. With public services stretched to breaking point or sometimes cut entirely, volunteers are increasingly stepping into the breach.

We regularly talk about the importance of fostering a sense of community cohesion as the right wing seeks to undermine and divide society. Volunteering also, of course, brings people together. It forges connections, develops skills and strengthens communities. It shows that people in Wales are willing to care for each other, and to act for everyone's benefit. So, on behalf of Plaid Cymru, I'd like to thank the thousands who make their silent contribution. Wales is a better place because of your compassion and care.

I was pleased to be part of a celebration last night of volunteers in Neath Port Talbot, which was truly inspiring. I'd like to congratulate the almost 40 groups and individuals from across the county who received awards. And the director of NPTCVS, Gaynor Richards, mentioned in her speech that volunteers are often described as the backbone of our communities, but that she thinks of them instead as the spirit that animates our communities.

I was pleased to see the introduction of a new category of equity, diversity, and inclusion. As Gaynor Richards said, this is what makes our communities stronger, more compassionate, more effective, in supporting those who need it most. I agree wholeheartedly. I was proud to present the award to the winners in that category, namely the Chai and Chat group, which brings women from a diverse range of ethnic backgrounds together for a cuppa and a chat.

But volunteers need more than just congratulations and warm words. What we hear increasingly from a number of the third sector groups that support volunteers is that the increase in national insurance contributions threatens the excellent work that is being delivered—work that is even more crucial as more people in Wales are pushed into poverty. Although volunteers give so much, they also need support to make their vital contribution to Wales.

The increase is a cause of genuine concern. Many third sector organisations—charities, social enterprises, community groups—depend on voluntary contributions and are on tight budgets. When the cost of employing staff—even the part-time staff who support volunteers—increases due to the NICs, it places additional pressure on a system that's already under strain. Seventy-eight per cent of organisations have reported an increase in demand for their services. The result is fewer resources to train, support and safeguard volunteers; more difficulty in attracting new people; and a real risk, therefore, to the sustainability of this crucial work that happens in communities across Wales. These are the groups that run things such as crisis support lines and support services. They are the ones filling the gaps that have been torn through the safety net by Westminster Governments of every stripe.

I'm sure that you will say in your response that these decisions, which impact the work of our volunteers, are not within the Welsh Government's powers. I had more sympathy with that defence when the Conservatives were in power. But now there is no excuse, with your own party taking these decisions. So, do you agree that it is appalling that your partners in Westminster have proceeded with their decision to undermine the work of the voluntary sector in this way, without then providing the resources and the funding to the Welsh Government to mitigate those impacts?

Has the Welsh Government raised the detrimental impact of the increased national insurance contributions on the third sector and the voluntary sector in Wales with the UK Labour Government, and what was the response? And have you, as a Welsh Government, earmarked any funds to mitigate the increased national insurance contributions? And if so, from where have those funds been cut? Thank you.

Diolch yn fawr, Sioned Williams, and thank you again for your support for the volunteers. Volunteering Week gives us all the opportunity to recognise the contributions of our volunteers, like the ones that you met last night in the Neath Port Talbot event—of course, 40 groups. It's good to hear about that new category of equity, diversity and inclusion.

It is about the ways in which volunteers strengthen communities and act on behalf of others. But it is vitally important that we do support those organisations, like Neath Port Talbot county voluntary council, through our core-funded support infrastructure. I'm very pleased that we have been able to, for the first time, give that Third Sector Support Wales partnership, which includes the Wales Council for Voluntary Action and county voluntary councils across Wales, a three-year grant commitment to allow them to undertake long-term planning whilst retaining staff and skills. I'm sure you saw that reflected, as I know the strength—across all our constituencies, we have those county voluntary councils that actually are unique.

I actually did meet Gaynor Richards at a very moving service remembering and celebrating the life of Graham Benfield, who was the chief executive of the Wales Council for Voluntary Action, who sadly died recently after an illness. He helped us develop, with Welsh Government in partnership, that third sector support scheme. But giving it the funding is important, particularly with the challenges around the national insurance contributions—the fact that that has had an impact and concerns for many third sector organisations. And you know that the Cabinet Secretary for finance has raised this with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, particularly looking at the impact on those organisations that aren't within the public sector realm in terms of receiving funding.

I'd also like to just acknowledge again the fact that I'm glad to see that recognition of equity, diversity and inclusion, and to acknowledge the role of the Welsh Refugee Council, which gained 63 active volunteers, with our long-running Volunteering Wales grant, contributing 4,744 hours of support in roles, including English for speakers of other languages, employability, playgroup, fundraising, triage, reception, advocates and peer mentors.

I'd too like to pay tribute and thank the very many volunteers, individuals, groups and organisations that are the cornerstone of the community that I am proud to serve. They don't always make the headlines, but they most certainly are lifelines and often the glue that bind our communities together, whether that's Mold Community Clubhouse and Gardens, who are actually hosting a celebration event today to recognise their volunteers, or things like the community hospitals' leagues of friends, or Walk & Talk Today in Ffynnongroyw.

Cabinet Secretary, as it is Pride Month, it would be remiss of me not to mention those community Prides that are made possible not just by from funding from Welsh Government and other community sources, but actually because of the effort that people put in to make them happen on the ground. I was proud to be at the first-ever Flint Pride this time last year, and I'm looking forward to the first-ever Prestatyn Pride on Saturday. So, Cabinet Secretary, I know this is something that you're very passionate about, and the Welsh Government supports, but can I ask, to build on what you said in your statement, that you encourage the Welsh Government to build on support for volunteers, not simply through funding streams, but by thinking creatively about how we can enable more people to play their part, whether that's through working with employers or with a range of community organisations? Diolch.

Diolch, Hannah Blythyn, and thank you again. As you say, volunteering—and it's been expressed across the Chamber—binds our communities together, and also expresses—. In responding to Sioned Williams about community cohesion, and also the impact that this has in terms of raising awareness, I think that's where, in the communities—and often this is non-party political—it is something where we come together. I think community Prides and the volunteers who not just engage on the day, but plan those Prides, put a great deal into it. I certainly look forward to my Barry Pride, as you will to your Prestatyn Pride. But also there's the fact that community prides have been funded by the Welsh Government to assist them to make this work.

It is important that we look at the ways in which we're trying to improve our support for volunteering. I've mentioned this new approach. There are three parts to that: vision delivery, framework tools and implementation plan, and it's actually about bringing different sectors together as a nation, because there has been a decline in volunteering since the pandemic. So many people came out to volunteer in the early stages of the pandemic, but it became very difficult, obviously, in terms of lockdown and the impact of the pandemic. And now many organisations have changed the way they are working, so they have had to adapt themselves to more, perhaps, virtual volunteering, online volunteering.

We have to recognise that we need to help people who do want to come forward to volunteer. We have got a Volunteering Wales digital portal, which is managed by WCVA, and we are upgrading that to be a bit more user-friendly for those who want to volunteer, and organisations that want to attract. We are launching that in the summer. It is also helping volunteers to respond to and manage emergency situations. I mentioned flooding, where so many people come out in the street before even the statutory services do.

I think the Volunteering Wales grant—. I have mentioned the impact it had for the Welsh Refugee Council, who took advantage of that. I was very pleased to meet today some young people from Foothold Cymru, who come from Llanelli. They are part of a group called 'Volunteens: Be Heard. Be Helpful.', alongside a group of young people who were supported by the Football Association of Wales's national young persons council and Children in Wales. They were talking about what they get out of volunteering, what they put in and what they get out of volunteering as well.

So, we’ve got to look at volunteering for all generations, different ways of being able to come forward, support for those organisations that can back them. But I think the power of youth, as I said today, is something we should particularly focus on in Volunteering Week.

During the last week, I have seen the huge contribution that volunteers make, first of all, at the Urdd Eisteddfod, a wonderful eisteddfod in Margam, and without volunteers, these eisteddfodau couldn't happen—the Urdd Eisteddfod, the National Eisteddfod and the Llangollen International Eisteddfod.

Secondly, Jenny Rathbone and I this morning went to meet with Cardiff foodbanks, people from diverse backgrounds, with very diverse experiences, coming together to make a real difference, to fill the gap, as Sioned Williams said, that has been left by cuts imposed by Westminster.

And third, last week, I visited Penrhys, on the top of the mountain between the Rhondda Fach and the Rhondda Fawr. The poverty was apparent, totally apparent, when I arrived, and I met volunteers there who run a foodbank, a clothes bank, who help with advice on housing and benefits, who help children with their homework, who run a pay-as-you-go cafe—once again, all of these filling the gaps that the Westminster Government has left. Penrhys was described as a failure of planning, but these people are creating a community together.

One thing I'd like to raise very briefly, Dirprwy Lywydd, is that it's often difficult to know what's happening, what different volunteers are doing. Recently, last Christmas, people had prepared a lunch for the homeless, but nobody turned up because other places were providing a lunch for the homeless on Christmas Day in Cardiff. On Boxing Day, there was nothing available. So, how can we know everything that volunteers do, that important mapping? Thank you very much.

Diolch yn fawr, Rhys. It's very important that you've shared with us your visit to Penrhys, but also to the Urdd Eisteddfod last week, which wouldn't have happened without those volunteers. The voluntary actions of people touch every aspect of our lives, and even in circumstances where people themselves may be struggling in terms of low incomes and the impacts of the cost of living, it's also the fact that often it's the volunteers in the communities who are keeping the foodbanks and community hubs running.

Interestingly, yesterday I met with Citizens Advice, who were from Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire, and they were talking about the importance of some of the places. They go to people now as volunteers, particularly through Citizens Advice, and the community hubs that are running, very much supported by volunteers. I'm glad that our warm hubs, warm spaces funding is helping them, and also our funding for foodbanks.

But often volunteers are running sports clubs, they're doing vital work in hospitals, social care, and also doing some very specialist work, as well as general support for victims of crime, and working with prisoners. We mustn't forget our faith and belief groups helping, holding communities together, and also befriending, looking out for and giving vital help to the elderly.

I think you will see that the new approach that we're taking, which is very much led by the volunteering cross-sectoral leadership group, will address some of the points that you've made, and they will be listening to this statement this afternoon. And we've discussed this in the Cabinet, and all of us have signed up to recognising that volunteering is vital to the well-being of our communities, to community cohesion. It's a pillar of community life. It is vital to the services and the support that everyone needs at some time in their lives. Volunteering benefits those who give as well as those who benefit. But we do need an improved delivery framework. We do need to ensure we get the right training and support. One thing that came up yesterday in my visit was the fact we now live in a digital world, so we do need to ensure that our grant aid does help with digital skills. So, that's why we're funding the Newid partnership, with the third sector and the chief digital officer working together with a partnership, including Wales Council for Voluntary Action and Cwmpas, ProMo Cymru and the Centre for Digital Public Services, to ensure that we can improve the digital capacity of the voluntary sector in Wales.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement today. It's right that we not only thank our volunteers, but we also celebrate them. My constituency of Wrexham is blessed with many organisations and facilities run by wonderful volunteers, and I was very pleased to join you on a visit to one of those, Hwb yr Orsedd in Rossett, two weeks ago. The hub is a vibrant community meeting place and cafe, run by a dedicated team of volunteer board members and trustees, along with many other volunteers, giving tens of hours of volunteer time every week. The state-of-the-art facility that you visited is a far cry from the disused toilet block it replaced. The volunteers secured Welsh Government funding from the community facilities programme towards the cost of the building. I'm sure you will agree with me, Cabinet Secretary, that this particular type of funding is vital in supporting our volunteers, to ensure communities such as Rossett provide community events, companionship, classes, a place to socialise and eat, as you saw very clearly from your visit. 

Diolch yn fawr, Lesley Griffiths. It was, I have to say, a really enjoyable visit to the hwb at Rossett, and that you were able to join me as well. This was a fantastic venue, funded, as you said, by the community facilities programme. It wouldn't have happened without volunteers. But it is important, again, to share, on the record, that the community facilities programme provides grants up to £25,000 for quick-win improvements, which can make a huge difference fitting a lift, accessible toilet facilities, and up to £300,000 for larger projects, such as building purchases, extensions or refurbishments. I think this is one of the most direct ways in which the Welsh Government visibly puts our public money into many centres and community hubs like the one at Rossett, which we saw together. But the most important thing, as you said, is the people who make it work, the volunteers who run the centre, as they do in centres across Wales as volunteers, benefiting themselves, but also making sure that everyone has got support and engagement, whether it's a cup of tea, a game of cards, a talk, and also intergenerationally as well—. So, it's really great to see the ways in which our community facilities programme can support volunteering in Wales.

Our brilliant voluntary sector organisations and the legions of volunteers at their heart work with individuals and families from the ground up, delivering key services that improve lives, whilst also reducing demand on statutory services. I work with many and visit voluntary sector projects almost weekly. But as the sector and I warned during the passage of the Welsh Government's 2025-26 budget, the budget starved charitable and community service providers of resources, thereby generating false economies and far higher cost pressures for statutory service providers. What provision, therefore, is the Welsh Government making or considering for the avalanche of key voluntary sector service cuts since announced, ranging from hospice and palliative care to homelessness prevention provision, from cancer support to dementia care providers and, worryingly, many, many more? 

Well, thank you very much, and I know, Mark Isherwood, how engaged you are in the voluntary sector in your region and how important it is to those who you support. Indeed, I've visited with you many of those projects. I recall visiting the Ukrainian and the Polish support centre in Wrexham, I recall, when they were particularly focusing on supporting those volunteering, supporting Ukrainians at that particular time when they were fleeing conflict.

It is important that we recognise, again, that we've given a three-year grant commitment. All of the organisations that I fund, and I can only do this as a result of the £1.6 billion budget uplift that we've got as a result of the UK Government and the fact that we are now moving towards three-year grant commitments to organisations—. I again say that this is really important in terms of those councils for voluntary action, as well as the Wales Council for Voluntary Action, the fact that I announced an additional £2.2 million for the voluntary sector infrastructure, and just recently another £2.1 million for our domestic violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence services. Those organisations we are now able to fund with that three-year funding and an uplift above inflation.

We've also, as I said, funded the Newid partnership to improve digital skills with an additional £1.2 million, and I've mentioned the £49.6 million that goes into the community facilities programme, which I know many organisations have benefited from. I'm pleased also that we have the pot of £5 million for the community asset loan fund. We've seen much innovation across Wales in terms of the use of that community asset loan fund. I'm looking forward to visiting the St Giles Trust, the Newport BOOST hub in Newport in Wales. We allocated nearly £150,000 to the St Giles Trust to develop and launch a practical toolkit to support employers in Wales, extending volunteering opportunities for those with lived experience, self-assessment tools and trauma-informed peer mentoring training for women who are importantly addressing homelessness. Across the whole of the Welsh Government, all our Cabinet Secretaries and Ministers have been able to allocate funding to organisations across all sectors to support them with that infrastructure, underpinning the work that goes on to support our volunteers.

Finally, Mike Hedges.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I want to talk about two of the largest groups of volunteers, and I've been pleased to have been one of them in the past. Their selfless and unwavering commitment are the lifeblood that sustains our society. School governors give up their time to support local schools. The management of schools could not happen without people giving up their time to support the schools in Wales by becoming school governors.

The second group I wanted to raise is those who run amateur sports clubs. For football and rugby teams, it involves getting kids watched, ensuring players turn up, coaching, sometimes acting as an emergency referee, looking after the ground and marking the pitch. From personal experience, I know that volunteering for a local sports team costs both time and money, but I also know how hugely rewarding it is. Will the new approach to volunteering include volunteers running sports teams? 

Thank you very much, Mike Hedges. Absolutely, the volunteers—the school governors, first of all, are crucial, and often playing a part as a school governor can be a step towards many other prospects in life, including politics for some, locally or nationally, but also engaging with the school and supporting the school team, the headteacher and the whole school. But also in terms of sports clubs, we know all those who are out, not supporting their children and young people particularly on the fields at the weekend, but keeping those sports clubs going. That does go back to the selfless role that volunteers play. And where possible, yes, of course, funding for sports clubs—. Indeed, again, I've mentioned virtually all our Ministers and Cabinet Secretaries have got links and opportunities to ensure that funding sources and streams are available to groups of that kind. As I said, I was very pleased today to meet the national youth council of the Football Association of Wales who are engaging in communities to support volunteering involving young people.

 I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

Item 5 is a second statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice on the disabled people's rights plan, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Jane Hutt.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. Today we celebrate a landmark in our commitment to ensuring an inclusive and accessible society for all disabled people in Wales through our 10-year disabled people's rights plan.

This plan, which is based on the incredible work of the disability rights taskforce, is not about talking, it's about doing. It's about acting now on exclusion and laying strong foundations for progress by future Governments. Importantly, this plan supports the principles set out in the United Nations convention on the rights of disabled people.

I would like to take this opportunity to sincerely thank my co-chair of the taskforce, Professor Debbie Foster, and the chairs of the working groups: Andrea Gordon, Natasha Hirst, Rhian Davies, Alice Moore, Angharad Price, Joe Powell, Willow Holloway and Damian Bridgeman, for their expertise, energy and commitment. And my thanks also to the many disabled people, organisations and allies who worked in co-production on the recommendations that have helped shaped this plan. Be assured, your voices have been heard, and your experiences are guiding us to make meaningful change.

This plan is a 10-year blueprint for progress, designed to ensure its outcomes are realised through actions taken across Government. We know that policy that seeks to remove the barriers, discrimination and exclusion faced by disabled people must not be siloed—it must be an integral part of every policy holder's business as usual. The First Minister, all Cabinet Secretaries and Ministers have committed to delivering on this cross-Government plan. The plan lays out our commitment to set up an external advisory board, led by disabled people, to hold Government to account on the delivery and implementation of the plan.

However, I've always said we would not wait for the plan to act. So, what are some of the actions we are already taking? Our new TrawsCymru buses mean disabled travellers have audio announcements, induction loops and bilingual 'next stop' displays. Cardiff Bus interchange now has a range of accessibility features, including accessible seating and inclusive toilets and tactile paving. We're undertaking a rapid access audit of railway stations in Wales and will work in partnership with the UK Government to address the physical and non-physical barriers facing people, ensuring disabled people are involved in designing all solutions to those problems. Our new Transport for Wales trains have step-free access. Our British Sign Language stakeholder group is working to ensure services are inclusive for deaf BSL signers. We've extended our neurodivergence improvement programme to 2027, with £13.7 million more in funding, supporting children and families. Our disabled people's employment champions have published updated guidance for disabled apprentices, and are actively engaged in the development of the new Welsh Government employability support programme. And we must remember disabled people are disproportionately affected by homelessness. Our Homelessness and Social Housing Allocation (Wales) Bill marks a critical step towards tackling this issue.

We know that the pay disparity gap for disabled people is unacceptable. Our well-being of future generations Wales national indicators have set a milestone to eliminate this by 2050, and we're also working now with the UK Government on the Equality (Race and Disability) Bill to tackle this very issue.

We are committed to making positive change. Our disparity evidence unit, set up following the 'Locked out' report on the devastating impact of the pandemic on disabled people, will publish co-produced research on 11 June on the crucial areas of employment and independent living.

I must address some of the welfare reforms planned by the UK Government, and caution that reforms can overlook the circumstances and needs of disabled people, and more so in Wales than some other parts of the UK. I am consulting with our disability equality forum on the impact of the proposals in the Green Paper, and will publish the Welsh Government response to the consultation, including the impact of the changes to personal independence payments, affecting thousands of people in Wales. We are leading the design of a trailblazer in Wales to tackle unemployment, backed by an additional £10 million funding from the UK Government, exploring how we can further support disabled people to access work.

Dirprwy Lywydd, Robert M. Hensel once said:

'There is no greater disability in society than the inability to see a person as more.'

We know that disabled people are often written off by society as passive recipients of care services, and while some disabled people will need support, disabled people are our respected colleagues, community leaders, entrepreneurs and artists. Strictly Come Dancing competitors actress Rose Ayling-Ellis and comedian Chris McCausland amazed viewers with their dance performances. Rose, a deaf BSL signer, and Chris, who lost his sight at 22, beat the best to hold up the glitter ball. But we shouldn't be amazed by these performances. Instead, we should recognise that when disabled people are given the right environment, they can compete with and surpass the finest. This is the social model of disability in action.

We know that people are disabled by barriers and attitudes in society, not by their impairments or differences. And I know that stardom will not be the ambition of all disabled people. Many disabled people simply want to be able to live in accessible homes, take accessible buses to fairly paid jobs, and have the full enjoyment of social and family life. Having the opportunity to realise potential should not be for a privileged few. We have likely lost countless innovations, creativity and skills because of disabled people's exclusion from the world.

Deputy Llywydd, I am confident that through our disabled people's rights plan, we can position Wales as a world leader in the application of the social model of disability. Our plan is transformative. It is our uniquely Welsh way, the red Welsh way. Thank you, Disability Wales, Guide Dogs Cymru, Wales Council of the Blind and All Wales People First for supporting stakeholders to engage with this 12-week consultation. Today I ask that all organisations, allies and disabled people themselves take part in the consultation on this very important plan.

In conclusion, the disabled people's rights plan is a call to action for all of us. By adopting this 10-year plan, we will secure a fairer, stronger future, not only for disabled people but for everyone in Wales. As Helen Keller said,

'Alone we can do so little, together we can do so much.'

Diolch yn fawr.

As chair of the cross-party group on disability, I have consulted the sector on this plan, which, as we've heard, according to the Welsh Government, aims to improve the rights and opportunities of all disabled people in Wales.

How do you respond to the disappointment they expressed with both the lack of actionable measures within the short term and Welsh Government feedback stating it has taken so long due to co-production with disabled people, when this was less time consuming than the finalisation of the plan, which is where a lot of time was lost?

Further, how do you respond to their statement that many of the long-term objectives lack firm commitments, and their question of how the Welsh Government intends to ensure continuity and accountability for these longer term objectives beyond the current administration? There's also been criticism from within the sector that the plan does not have concrete targets, which makes it impossible to hold the Welsh Government to account on progress.

Dr Natasha Hirst, who chaired the Welsh Government's disability rights taskforce's access to services working group, said a key concern was the lack of a mechanism for scrutinising and holding the Welsh Government to account, as well as the lack of clear and robust targets and no new funding for implementing the actions. Similarly, Joe Powell, chief executive of All Wales People First, who chaired the disability rights taskforce's access to justice working group, said:

'in order for this plan to succeed we need the appropriate investment into the infrastructure and services to make this aspiration a reality. We need clear targets about how we are going to achieve this. Without these, it is very difficult to see how the plan will make a difference to disabled people in Wales.'

Given their informed concerns, what measurable targets and investment, if any, will the Welsh Government now put in place?

Additionally, Damian Bridgeman, who chaired the disability rights taskforce's housing and community working group, said the draft document was a smokescreen rather than a plan. He pointed to the absence of new money and a mechanism to track delivery of the action plan further, adding that

'Disabled people have been reviewed to death. What we need is action—and there’s none of that here.'

He criticised the lack of action on some of the most practical necessary recommendations that came out of the co-production phase of the process, which he said never even made it into the final plan because the Welsh Government doesn't know how to deliver them. So, how will the Welsh Government ensure that this strategy leads to real change, rather than becoming, as he put it, a

'collection of vague intentions dressed up as progress...No targets. No teeth. No real-world accountability'?

While the proposed plan references neurodivergent people in the context of mental health and justice, it lacks a dedicated strategy or outcomes tailored to their unique experiences in education, employment and healthcare. What mechanisms are in place, therefore, to ensure that neurodivergent voices are heard and that their needs, such as sensory-friendly environments, communication preferences and tailored learning or workplace adjustments, are explicitly planned for and monitored?

The proposed plan mentions the UN convention on the rights of disabled people several times, and states it will use it as a guiding framework. However, although the Welsh Government has shown interest in incorporating the UN convention on the rights of disabled people into Welsh law, there is no commitment to this in the plan. Why is this, and how do you respond to the sector's call for an update on the current barriers to incorporation and the steps being taken to progress this?

The sector is concerned that the UK Government's current 'Pathways to Work' Green Paper proposals risk further disabling people in Wales by compounding poverty and exclusion, and that these cuts may lead to an increase in demand for devolved Welsh services such as health and social care, funded through the Barnett formula. How, specifically, will the impact of these proposals be measured in Wales, and how will any resulting pressures on devolved services be funded, particularly in relation to the adequacy of the Barnett formula?

Finally, although the plan commits to addressing socioeconomic inequalities, the Bevan Foundation's recent impact report on pathways to work indicates that disabled people are at risk of being pushed further into socioeconomic deprivation. What concrete steps are the Welsh Government therefore taking to mitigate the impact of these UK Government proposals on disabled people in Wales? Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you very much, Mark Isherwood, and thank you for your continued role and stewardship of the cross-party group on disability, which I'm looking forward to attending; I think the date is in the diary. And of course, it is important that this is seen in the context of a 12-week consultation and that you're already, obviously, engaging with disabled people and their organisations to reflect on this plan and to respond to it.

I think what's important is that this is a comprehensive 10-year plan, which lays out our long-term ambitions, the actions that we will take now, and also a progress report. That progress report, which was published back in May, sets out some of the achievements made so far and our ongoing work to achieve positive outcomes for disabled people, such as our Hate Hurts campaign and our work on our disabled people's transport advisory committee.

It is future Senedd Governments who will set out the medium- to long-term actions that they will take to achieve the ambition and outcomes for disabled people set out in this 10-year plan, but we've started to take forward some of the short-term actions now. We don't have to wait until the next Senedd term to take action to improve outcomes for disabled people. And you will know, as you've read the plan, that we've got four overarching areas to deliver positive outcomes for disabled people. I'm grateful to the chairs of the working groups for their support in developing the detailed outcomes for this plan.

You know the four key themes: neighbourhoods and places; employment, income and education; independent living; and justice and supporting environments. It is important that the plan set out our ambition for a Wales where disabled people can enjoy equitable rights, inclusion and participation, and we've been guided, as I said in my statement, by the principles and obligations of the UN convention on the rights of disabled people.

Actually, I'm sure you will know and colleagues will have informed you of the fact we have a human rights advisory group that has been responding to the research that was undertaken by Professor Simon Hoffman and colleagues that we commissioned on strengthening and advancing equality and human rights. We have a legislative options working group, led by Charles Whitmore. It's really important that civic society and those involved in human rights organisations are helping us lead the way forward in Wales in terms of addressing the UN convention.

Of course, there are limitations in terms of what we can do in terms of incorporation. We discussed this with our Scottish Government colleagues. But we are looking for all the ways in which we can deliver and embed the UN convention in our work. It's important that we look at some of those articles. You'll see across the whole plan I've linked every action to an article of the UN convention: equality and non-discrimination, accessibility, living independently, being included in the community, education, work and employment. If you read the plan, Mark, you will see not only the actions, but the progress that we've taken.

I just want to finally say that this was a disability rights taskforce the former First Minister and I established as a result of the 'Locked out' report on liberating disabled people as a result of the pandemic. We agreed that we would co-produce this plan, and we had extensive engagement with over 350 external stakeholders, producing high-quality recommendations. The disability rights taskforce was led by disabled people. I met the working group chairs—I've met with them regularly, obviously—and I co-chaired it with Professor Debbie Foster.

Time has not stood still since the inception of this taskforce. Our progress report demonstrates multiple actions we have taken. What is important, and I think we've learnt this from our other equality plans, is that the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan' has an external accountability group, independently appointed, and we will do the same with the external advisory group that will take forward ways in which we can—. People with lived experience and expertise on this board will play a critical role in advising on the delivery and impact of disabled people's rights.

If I can finally say, Dirprwy Lywydd—there were a lot of questions from Mark Isherwood—we set up a disability disparity unit as a response to the 'Locked out' report. That happened very soon afterwards, in the early days of the disability equality unit. There's nothing like this elsewhere. We have a disability disparity unit, a race disparity unit, and an overall equality evidence unit, which is now developing a measurement framework to ensure we deliver on our actions, that they can be monitored, and that the actions we take will make a real difference to the lives of disabled people in Wales.

But I do say it's up to us here, isn't it? It's up to everyone in this Chamber to have that commitment today, to get the response to this plan, and to see it as a 10-year plan for delivery by Government, with scrutiny and support from the Senedd.

This plan has been a long time coming, and I would argue too long, as strengthening the rights of disabled people in Wales and tackling the inequalities they continue to face is critical work, and it should have been treated as such by this Government.

The disability rights taskforce, of course, which led to this plan, was established in response to the 'Locked out' report of 2021, the report that showed so clearly that the rights, well-being and dignity of disabled people, even in a nation like Wales, were far too vulnerable and, in a period of crisis, too often neglected. We must never forget that disabled people comprised 60 per cent of deaths from COVID-19 in Wales, and many of those deaths were preventable and rooted in socioeconomic inequality. So, while we welcome steps to remove the barriers, to create an inclusive society here, we must also bear the importance of legally enforceable rights in mind, the rights that can literally be the difference between life and death.

The Welsh Government says that it wants to realise the principles of the United Nations convention on the rights of disabled people, and the plan states:

'Through the efforts of the Legislative Options Working Group, the Welsh Government is continuing to explore how to embed the UNCRDP in Wales.'

But it's actually factually incorrect to say that the legislative options working group is exploring

'how to embed the UNCRDP in Wales';

the group, as the name suggests, is tasked with developing legislative options. One of the key principles of the United Nations convention on the rights of disabled people is incorporation within domestic law, and this was the single recommendation for the Welsh Government made by the United Nations committee on the rights of disabled people in its periodic review from 2017. So, in light of this, can you confirm whether this commitment still stands, and, if so, when will the Government bring forward legislation to make this a reality, bearing in mind, of course, that this was a programme for government commitment? Could you also explain why funding for the work of the legislative options working group had only a few weeks ago been made available, very late in the day? And will you today provide an assurance that the Welsh Government will allocate sufficient resources to enable the LOWG to bring forward recommendations on legislation to incorporate the United Nations convention on the rights of disabled people as soon as practically possible?

I'm glad that you addressed the planned welfare cuts that are casting, unfortunately, a long and dark shadow over this plan. The removal of this vital support doesn’t simply reduce income, it rips away the safety net that many disabled people rely on to live with dignity. The First Minister, in response to a question from me today, has said that she's meeting with Liz Kendall tomorrow, and you say that you'll be publishing your response to the consultation on the Green Paper, so what will you be saying, Cabinet Secretary? What will the First Minister be saying? We've never really had an answer from Welsh Government on that. Could you provide the Senedd now with your main concerns, please? Do you agree with Citizens Advice, which have said that

'by refusing to properly consult on its plans to cut billions from disability benefits, the UK Labour government is choosing not to ask questions it doesn't want answers to'?

The fact the DWP have cancelled the only in-person consultation in Wales speaks volumes. I attended a 'disabled people against the cuts' protest today in Cardiff, in which disabled people said that they felt that they were being treated with contempt. Do you agree with their calls in this letter, on both the UK and Welsh Governments, that there must be no vote on disability cuts until a full and genuine public consultation has been carried out in Wales? Can Wales secure, as the plan states, a fairer, stronger future for disabled people without the devolution of welfare, so that we can protect disabled people in Wales from Westminster Governments of all colours that care more for spreadsheets than ensuring dignity and equity for disabled people?

Finally, as chair of the cross-party group on learning disability, I'd like clarity on how the plan will address specific and long-standing concerns. Under the section on independent living, the plan addresses the right to practical assistance and support to participate fully in society on the same basis as others. Can you confirm therefore by when would you expect that no-one with a learning disability and/or autism will be sectioned or detained and kept in secure hospital settings in Wales, as has been highlighted by the Stolen Lives 'Homes Not Hospitals' campaign?

The plan also recognises that accessibility is not just about physical barriers. The move to cashless payments, as Mencap has highlighted, is a barrier to services, leisure, the arts, and, if you are travelling on a Transport for Wales or Great Western Railways train, to refreshments. This is something that could be addressed now as regards public sector and Government-funded services and projects, but this wasn't in your list of things that are going to be happening straight away.

As we hear right-wing politicians try to undermine and vilify the importance of diversity, equality and inclusion, advocating for initiatives that enable equity— 

You need to conclude now, please, Sioned.

I will.

—to be defunded, the only sure way to ensure the vision of this plan, and thus the belief that disabled people are afforded the support that they need and deserve, is defended by a solid foundation of legally enforceable rights. Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr, Sioned Williams, and thank you also for your engagement. I was pleased that we have the disability rights taskforce. We touched base on that, in terms of recognition that it was a part of our former co-operation agreement, because we were very much in the same place in terms of the importance of the disability rights taskforce, as, indeed, I believe, across this Chamber, there was support and recognition, and recognition of the impact, the awful, appalling impact, of the pandemic on disabled people.

I remember giving a statement on the UN day for disabled people—I think it was perhaps in December 2021. People had no idea. It had not been understood that 68 per cent of deaths were of disabled people. We have to remember that, in Wales, 21 per cent of people are disabled people, in terms of our census figures, and recognise that we now need to serve that population in terms of their rights and entitlements. That's what this 10-year plan seeks to do.

It is important that we see this in terms of legislative reforms. I'm glad that direct payments, for example—. We've got a significant step forward in the Health and Social Care (Wales) Act 2025, because implementation planning for the continuing healthcare direct payments is progressing, as we passed that legislation, with engagement from local health boards, local authorities, third sector partners, helping to ensure that that new system actually is practical and responsive to the lived experiences of those it was designed to support. I think that's really important, in terms of recognising the independent living needs that came out of the work stream on independent living as well, and recognising the grants and the funding that we give through sustainable social services third sector and key third sector organisations.

I think our poverty strategy and disability is crucial, in terms of how we look at this in terms of our cross-cutting policy drivers to tackle poverty. I'm particularly looking at children and young people in poverty and making sure that discrimination relating to disability, gender, ethnicity or sexuality does not make it more difficult for them and their families. This is where we did, of course, engage with carers and disabled children and their families, in terms of developing our child poverty strategy as well.

Now, it is important to recognise that the plan was worked together with disabled people, and they did set the timeline for their work. As we worked together, we realised that they wanted to look at additional time for discussions in relation to independent living, well-being and access to justice working groups. I remember, when the access to justice group developed, one of the key points that came from All Wales People First and Mencap was that call on a cashless society. We had a petition and a debate here, and we are taking that work forward.

I would say that, in terms of the human rights advisory group, the work has progressed collaboratively with all of the organisations that have been involved—disabled people's organisations—collaboratively in terms of what our powers are, the reality of our powers, and looking at those—. It is a legislative options working group, and, as I said, we're discussing with the Scottish Government about the challenges in terms of incorporation, but we haven't given up on that. That is clearly part of our way forward.

I think, in the working group that we did on independent living, the overarching ambitions are to reduce socioeconomic inequalities among disabled people, including access to welfare benefits. I've mentioned direct payments. It is about enjoying rights to independent living, with income to meet living costs. That is where the socioeconomic duty, which we enacted in Wales, is crucially important.

I have commented on the Green Paper. I was disappointed the Department for Work and Pensions didn't publish a stand-alone Welsh assessment, but, as I said earlier on today, we are gathering that evidence. Wales-specific claimant data is included now in the full evidence pack to the 'Pathways to Work' Green Paper published by the DWP. It does show the number of people in Wales who could potentially be impacted by the reforms of incapacity and disability benefits, and, as I said, we'll carefully consider—we are considering—those implications. And we will be discussing—. The feedback from today is important for our meeting with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. So, again, it is back to the fact that we, I hope, as—. We are united as a Welsh Labour Government, ensuring disabled people have a strong voice, and that they are—. They have spent their time influencing us in Government, working with us, and now we need to make sure that this plan actually is delivered as a result of the consultation that is now under way. 

Natasha Hirst has already been mentioned, and she is an absolutely fantastic photographer—I know of no better—in Wales. I very much support your social model of disability, because it is society that needs to change, not the individual who happens to have an impairment, and we still have a very long way to go. We should celebrate that TfW have trains with step-free access, but an awful lot of other train companies don't. This should have been made mandatory a very long time ago. So, there's a huge amount of work that still needs to be done.

Clearly, somebody like my constituent Rosie Moriarty-Simmonds is a really feisty disability campaigner who has done a huge amount for the cause of disability, normalising it and going to talk to children and all the rest of it, and rising to become the High Sheriff of South Glamorgan in 2022.

I just wanted to ask about how this plan may affect the cause of inclusive education, which I've always been a huge champion for. I have the Hollies special educational school in my constituency. For people with neurodivergence, I can see that they might find great difficulty in being taught alongside other young people, because noise is a big factor for many of them, but, in many cases, we could be co-locating special schools alongside mainstream schools, and I just wondered what conversations you might have had with the Cabinet Secretary for Education on this.

Diolch yn fawr, Jenny Rathbone, and thank you also for the acknowledgment that we've embedded this plan in the social model of disability. Thank you for mentioning one of the chairs of our workstreams. I've mentioned all the chairs, Natasha Hirst, but also Rosie Moriarty-Simmonds: what an impact she had when she was the High Sheriff for South Glamorgan, showing how society was disabling her in her role in terms of inaccessibility just being one example to many of our civic buildings here in our capital city. When we came together as a taskforce, our priority area of work was embedding and understanding the social model of disability across Wales, and also access to services, including communications and technology. We also were looking at children and young people, and had a children and young people's group as well.

When we own things, when Transport for Wales is ours, they can deliver, and they will deliver, and they want to deliver now in terms of—. And you will have seen that. I'm not going to repeat what I've said earlier on.

On neurodivergence—and I'm sorry I didn't respond to Mark Isherwood earlier on on this point—we've extended our neurodivergence improvement programme to 2027, with £13.7 million more in funding supporting children and families. Obviously, Sarah Murphy is leading on this as the Minister. It's going to transform neurodivergent services for adults and children in Wales and reduce waiting times, but it is important that we reflect on this in terms of education, as you say, in terms of how we can ensure that our children and young people are accessing that education and able to benefit from it. So, I think, importantly, you will see in our progress report in terms of young people, the Welsh Government, I've just given you one of the actions, and it links to article 27 of the UN convention. The Welsh Government will work with local authorities to develop an education workforce plan, understanding workforce gaps, workforce planning, including the specialist workforce for disabled children and young people, and also updating guidance on healthcare needs, attendance, behaviour management and exclusions, and updated anti-bullying and safeguarding guidance. It’s there in the short-term actions that we’re already taking in terms of reaching out on those needs of children and young people.

Thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary, but may I first just start off by saying how wonderful it is to see a BSL interpreter on our screen? I hope that this becomes a permanent fixture.

While your plan is very welcome in principle, and much of what you've said today is good and welcome, and is a long time coming, as Sioned Williams said earlier, it disappointingly falls short in many critical areas. As highlighted by the Disability News Service, the plan lacks clear, enforceable targets and fails to commit the necessary funding to make real change possible, as was outlined by Mark Isherwood earlier. Disabled people in Wales continue to face systemic barriers in employment, transport and access to services, and with rising living costs and sweeping cuts to support services alongside welfare, this plan feels more like a statement of intent than a blueprint for real action.

Over 10,000 people will be impacted by Labour's welfare cuts in Monmouthshire and Torfaen alone, and this is without removing the persistent barriers in employment and strengthening the Access to Work scheme. Far too many employers still believe, and I quote, that it is 'too expensive and cumbersome' to employ disabled people, and people with disabilities in my region have been excluded from interviews because employers lack lifts and proper disabled access. I really hope that the consultation will be listened to as it concludes, as brilliant campaigners, such as Daniel Biddle, will undoubtedly be adding real value to ways in which we can help solve and break down these barriers. So, Cabinet Secretary, what conversations are you having with employers to dispel harmful, ableist ideas in the workplace, tackle hiring bias and improve access to work? What measurable targets are you aiming for to help those affected by welfare reforms into accessible, disability-friendly employment? Diolch.

Thank you very much, Laura Anne Jones, and also can we welcome our BSL signer? Hopefully this can be something for a Senedd of the future, the seventh Senedd, and I know next week we're going to be debating the Equality and Social Justice Committee report. Again, thank you. This is something that we can take forward, I'm sure, on a cross-party basis.

I think, again, I'm glad that you've focused on particular points in terms of employment, income and education. On employment and income, if you look at the short-term actions in the disabled people's plan, we have employed disabled people as employment champions for many years now. They are disabled people, they are champions, they are having an impact on employment, they're signposting employers to information, advice and guidance on fair, flexible and inclusive recruitment and working practices. That's meeting article 27 of the UN convention on the rights of disabled people, and our actions lay out that we're engaging with employers, unions, disabled people's organisations and the public to raise awareness of disabled people's employment rights, to challenge stereotypes, and to improve understanding of the benefits of employing a diverse workforce and the support available to us. So, we're doing this through our network of disabled people's employment champions, but also creating opportunities for key partners such as employer representative bodies, trade unions and disabled people's organisations.

Also, it’s really important in terms of the role of Medr to review support services for disabled adults who want to return to education or training, also accessibility for the self-employed, freelancers and disabled people who are business owners. We are evaluating the inclusive apprenticeships plan and we'll update that when required. It is important that we as Welsh Government, which is laid down in action, that we review non-academic and alternative pathways to employment, which is also crucial in terms of vocational training, apprenticeships and internships. So, those are just some of—. You will see these in the plan, in the short-term actions, in the progress that we're making. And again, we invite you to engage with the people with lived experience, to ensure that we can strengthen the plan. Today is about launching a plan that we want to strengthen as a result of consultation. It's a live plan. We're going to have lots of consultation events, and thank you for your contributions today.

Finally, Julie Morgan.

Diolch. I'd first like to congratulate the Cabinet Secretary for bringing about the disabled rights plan. This clearly shows the Welsh Government's commitment to ensuring that Wales is an open, inclusive and accessible place, where we want disabled people to have no boundaries and be able to fulfil all their ambitions. I do welcome the work that has already been done in this area, which she has itemised. As the Cabinet Secretary has said, the most important thing we can do is listen to disabled people and act on their views, so I'm very pleased there's been this extensive collaboration between the Government and disability charities and organisations when creating this plan. And I know that collaboration and working in that way—and this has already been referred to—does take time, but for the longer term, I hope that this will mean that we've got something that will have really good results.

I've just got two quick questions. I also want to welcome the signer; I think that's great and, as others have said, I hope we'll be able to have this, eventually, on a regular basis. But could she tell me what is actually progressing in terms of accessibility to BSL throughout Wales? Secondly, one of the themes of the plan is independent living, so I'd like to ask how this works with the health services. Because, in terms of constituency casework, access to health services for disabled people, particularly people with hearing issues, is one of the major areas that is brought to me in my constituency.

Thank you very much, Julie Morgan, for those questions. And also, can I acknowledge the role that you've played, working with disabled people and disabled people's organisations, in so many policy areas that we're discussing today? I can say that to Members across this Chamber. But you focused on really important developments in terms of BSL, making sure that Wales promotes equitable access, and recognises, facilitates and values BSL as an integral part of Wales's linguistic landscape. So, we have established a BSL stakeholder group. We've got a set of key recommendations on a BSL policy route-map, outlining actions we are taking to ensure equal access and outcomes, recognition and promotion of BSL, equal language rights, empowerment of Welsh deaf leadership, and advising on BSL priorities as well. Recognising BSL as a language is essential for their well-being and human rights, and we do recognise the challenges faced by deaf BSL signers, and the need to overcome these to prevent prejudice and exclusion. So, again, also working, I have to say—. And we'll hear more about this in due course with Mark Isherwood as well, on these issues, in relation to the BSL Bill that he's been promoting, which I think is important to acknowledge as well.

So, I think the issue around independent living and access to healthcare and accessible communications came up so strongly in terms of the work that we did together. This does link us back to what we've already been doing. I think it's important, just as we've got the Cabinet Secretary for health here as well, that we recognise that 'A Healthier Wales' is about how we take this forward. I'm glad that we've got refreshed actions that look at this from this perspective, to ensure access and inclusion, particularly in relation to our health services. And as I say in the statement, it's considering fully from the start of every disabled person's healthcare journey, it includes accessibility of 111, the NHS Wales app, suitable parking facilities, inclusivity of GP surgeries and hospitals, and indeed the learning disability strategic action plan, which was raised earlier on, the Improving Lives programme, outcomes through increasing access to annual health checks and delivering the Paul Ridd learning disability training. And finally, Llywydd, can I say the all-Wales standards for accessible communication and information for people with sensory loss is being broadened and being reviewed to deliver inclusive healthcare?

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

The next item is item 6, the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care on 2025-26 waiting times and priorities. The Cabinet Secretary, therefore, to make that statement—Jeremy Miles.

Thank you, Llywydd. Reducing long waiting times is the public's No. 1 priority, and my No. 1 priority. Over the last few months, we have seen good progress.

We've seen the longest waits of more than two years falling by two thirds. At the end of March, long waits fell to around 8,000—just under 8,400. This is the lowest level since April 2021, and the size of the overall waiting list had reduced for the fourth month in a row.

The latest set of NHS performance figures also showed there were reductions in long waiting times for diagnostic tests, for therapies and for out-patient appointments. This is welcome progress, and today I want to thank everyone who has worked so hard in the NHS. There has been a huge effort in every health board, and the progress that we have seen would not have been possible without that enormous effort by all those working in the NHS. 

We have achieved these outcomes by delivering thousands more treatments and tests across the NHS, through more evening and weekend appointments, through regional working between health boards, and renewed efforts to improve access to planned care. But, Llywydd, the job is far from finished. Too many people are, of course, still waiting too long for planned treatment, and we still have a long way to go to eliminate long waits and to reduce the overall waiting list to its pre-pandemic size. 

The picture does vary between health boards. Swansea bay, Hywel Dda and Powys health boards have successfully cleared all their two-year waits. Most people waiting more than two years are in just two health board areas: in Cardiff and the Vale and in Betsi Cadwaladr health boards. The problem is most acute in north Wales, where from this week, Welsh Government officials will work alongside health board staff themselves to focus on turning around its planned care position.

I expect the health board to meet its plans to significantly reduce long waits by the end of the first quarter of this year. Since November 2024, the number of two-year waits in north Wales has reduced by 44 per cent, which is to be welcomed, and huge progress, but improving the planned care position in north Wales is vitally important if we are to meet our overall aim of continuing to cut these over the coming 12 months, because, Llywydd, we have ambitious plans for the year ahead.

We will continue to tackle long waits and focus on reducing the overall size of the waiting list. We will reset and reduce the overall size of the list by March 2026, bringing it back towards pre-pandemic levels. It is within our grasp to reduce the size of our waiting list by as much as 200,000 pathways over the next year. We will do this by tackling out-patient appointments in the most challenged specialities.

By March 2026, we will meet and maintain the eight-week target for diagnostic tests, and throughout this year, we will continue the focus on reducing long waiting times. I do not want anyone to wait more than two years for treatment again in Wales.

Whilst extra investment and the use of additional capacity in the independent sector will be an important part of supporting the NHS to deliver this ambition, cutting long waits, most crucially, depends on maximizing the effective use of all the NHS resources. This is important for the long-term sustainability of the NHS in Wales, and also for delivering better patient outcomes.

This was part of the reason why I commissioned the work of the ministerial advisory board and accepted all its recommendations, so that we can understand what more the Welsh Government and the NHS need to do to reduce variation between health boards and to improve efficiency and productivity. I've reinforced this expectation through a set of specific requirements in the national planning guidance. These are a set of key enablers that every health board must deliver this year.

My officials are monitoring monthly progress, and this includes tracking the expected additional activity when the enablers are implemented, and I'll be making a statement in the autumn on the progress against these actions. These enablers have been identified by clinicians in the planned care programme, based on clinical evidence, and then reinforced in the recommendations from the ministerial advisory board. Examples include: increasing the number of follow-up appointments, which can be triggered by a patient's need rather than waiting for the NHS to contact them—these types of appointments will increase throughout 2025-26; in order to support an increase in cataract procedures, we will be requiring every health board to transform their routine lists to a minimum of seven cataract procedures per list, as standard, by the end of September of this year, and we'll be commissioning the independent sector to carry out a significant number of treatments alongside this to help create capacity for that transformation; and streamlining pathways and removing steps that do not add value to a patient's journey, for example listing someone for a cataract procedure following referral by their optometrist, as standard, by the end of September 2025.

I'm determined to work with health boards to deliver a stronger and more sustainable NHS. There will also be improvements in the way people arrange appointments and the process of waiting for planned care. Updates to the NHS Wales app will, later this year, enable people to understand their likely wait and to rebook their appointments. This is currently being tested in the Hywel Dda University Health Board area, and from July, the national team will start to roll out across other and health boards and other specialties. And I'll provide an update in September as part of the public awareness campaign.

In line with our 3Ps policy—promote, prevent and prepare for planned care—every health board now has a single-point-of-contact 'waiting well' service that can empower people to be in the best possible health and fitness to undergo surgery. And in future, people will only be listed for surgery when they are fit enough to undergo and to benefit from their treatment. This is much better for the patient. We know that people in optimum health are likely to recover from surgery faster, to have fewer complications and won't need to stay in hospital as long. And it is better for other patients on the list as it will reduce the number of treatments and appointments that are cancelled or missed, helping to speed up access overall.

This is our commitment to the public, and in return we ask that the public do all that they can to prioritise and keep appointments, so that together we make the best possible use of scarce NHS resources. And this is really critical because currently we are losing huge numbers of appointments in the NHS—hundreds of thousands every year. Fourteen per cent of all out-patient appointments are lost because people do not turn up or cannot attend. That's not right and it's not sustainable, and it doesn't help us to make sure the public get faster access to the care that they need. So, in future, we will provide patients with two offers of dates for an NHS appointment. If those appointments are not kept without a good reason, they will be removed from the list so that their place can be taken by somebody else. Every person's circumstance will be considered. Patients who are vulnerable and children will be protected, but we want patients to keep their appointments or to cancel in good time so their place can be taken by someone else.

Llywydd, this is a small range of the measures building on the good work to give people in Wales timely access to the care that they need and deserve, and together the Welsh Government, the NHS and the public will make a difference and deliver the improvement and the change that we need in order to ensure the NHS is both sustainable and responsive to all our needs.

I'd like to thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement this afternoon. I recognise the importance of tackling long waits in the NHS, and I'm pleased that our health professionals across Wales have stepped up to the plate and have got those waits down. It's what my constituents say and I'm sure what other Members in this Chamber hear week after week. And I do agree with you, Cabinet Secretary, it is the public's No. 1 priority. But let me be clear, while any progress is welcome, the truth is that people in Wales are still waiting far too long, and in some cases being treated like second-class citizens, compared to the patients across the border in England. Yes, you talk about reducing the longest waits by two thirds, but let's remember that the benchmark used here is 104 weeks. That's two full years. And for too many Welsh patients, that's become normalised and it is too long. Llywydd, like me, many people will be asking, 'Why is the Government content to accept such a low bar?', as in England, the waiting list is up to 52 weeks and actually is going to be reduced down to 18 weeks. I'm just interested: why is the Welsh Government not moving that target to 52 weeks now, to make sure that nobody in Wales has to wait over a year for treatment?

I'd also like to touch on some elements that are in your statement about the inequality between different health boards. We heard what you said that Swansea, Hywel Dda and Powys have cleared their longest waits, but I would dispute some of those figures that Russell George mentioned earlier about Powys. But most of that problem now is in Cardiff and Betsi Cadwaladr. And I just want to know, why is it that some health boards succeed while others are consistently failing and falling behind? What is the Welsh Government doing specifically to hold those worst performers to account? And will you then publish clear monthly league tables by health boards, so the public know how much progress is being made on a monthly basis, rather than having to wait for the figures as we do?

You did talk about the independent sector, and you said you'll use that extra capacity in the independent sector. That is code for outsourcing. I'll say I'm not against using the independent sector if it helps get the list down. However, I will ask the Cabinet Secretary: how much is this going to cost the Welsh NHS and the Welsh Government? And is there also capacity in the system of the independent sector to pick this up?

You did say that each health board must deliver seven cataract operations per list by September, and that's good on paper, but what is the current number of what health boards are delivering to? And I want to know, is this target achievable if we don't have the theatres or the staff available for people to operate? You did mention the independent sector there again, but I want to know whether there's that capacity in the independent sector to pick this up.

You mentioned about the plan to remove patients from waiting lists if they miss two appointments without good reason. I tend to agree with that. We need to make sure the public do actually take a bit more responsibility with their appointments within the NHS, but I do urge a little bit of caution. And I just need to make sure, Cabinet Secretary, that this policy is not going to unfairly penalise vulnerable people, those people who struggle to get transport, especially in Powys, for example, where people have to rely on public transport to get to appointments—it's not always readily available—and also those people who struggle with their mental health. Sometimes they cannot go to hospital appointments, so I just want to make sure that they're not going to be kicked off the waiting list because they were suffering with their mental health at the time.

You mentioned about the Wales NHS app, and I think we need to be using that an awful lot more. Will the app provide full transparency as well? So, will patients not only see their wait times, but be able to see the wait times across other health boards as well? I think that's really important.

Some things I thought were missing from your statement, Cabinet Secretary, were around cancer waiting times. We've had Macmillan make a press release, actually, saying that cancer waiting times are still being missed—there was a slight improvement, but it's nowhere near where it needs to be. I'd like to hear some comments from you today about what you're doing to reduce those waiting lists for cancer, because if we don't treat cancer in a timely manner, people will lose their lives unnecessarily, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. And also in paediatrics, waiting times for children are getting too long, and every time we delay an operation or a child getting seen, that affects their lifelong chances. I think it's something that we really do need to hone in on now—the paediatric care across Wales.

One thing that I think could help, Cabinet Secretary, one thing that I've committed to, is putting patient choice back at the forefront of people's decision making. When I go to my GP, I go to the doctor they tell me to go to or to the hospital they tell me to go to; I don't have a choice where I go. And I think it'd be actually better if we put that choice back in the system, so that people could actually say, 'Well, I want to go and see this clinician and get that care in that hospital.' I think that would work an awful lot better and actually drive up performance across health.

But in conclusion, Llywydd, there is no shortage of strategies or reviews or slogans, really, from this Welsh Government. What I think you do lack is urgency, ambition and a fairness across the system. Progress is welcome—I will give him that—and I want to see progress in this area, but you did say that two-year waits would be eliminated by 2023, and we're still here with two-year waits. You can moan all you like, Alun Davies, but the facts speak for themselves. We still have people waiting too long, and that is a shame. And it is, I think, a bigger shame that it has taken up until a year before an election for the Labour Party to finally realise that results actually do matter. The only thing I would say, Cabinet Secretary, is that I think you've left it a bit too late and I don't think that the public are going to thank you for it. Thank you, Llywydd. 

The Member was doing so well with a list of largely sensible questions, then he failed to resist the temptation of rhetoric at the end there, but I'll do my best to engage with the questions that he asked specifically. So, he won't have any disagreement from me about where we are. I've been at pains today to give a fair assessment of where we are, which is that we've met the target that we set for the end of March, but we have a long way to go, and there isn't anybody working in the NHS who wouldn't, I think, share that assessment. It's really important, though, not to underestimate the effort that has gone into reaching the progress that we've made. There's a very clear understanding that the next year ahead will be challenging, and we'll need the same level of commitment from all parts of the NHS and the Government to be able to make the progress that we want to see together. But I'm confident that we will be able to do that because we are able to draw on the resources and the commitment of a fantastic workforce in the NHS.

He inevitably was tempting me to put in place the arrangements that exist over the border. I can't think of any set of questions that he's put to me that hasn't involved basically saying, ‘Why aren't we England?’ Actually, the priority for me is to make sure that everybody in Wales gets the best possible treatment as quickly as they need to get it. He will, I think, know that waiting times are measured very differently in England and therefore we think that the way that we measure them here is more transparent and gives him more opportunity to scrutinise performance in the NHS.

He asked me about the publication of local health board performance. We do publish that data already on a monthly basis, broken down on a health board by health board basis. That includes the cataracts performance that he was talking about in ophthalmology. The capacity is there and the staffing is there. It's a very well-established set of standards that health organisations across the UK are encouraged to meet, and there is variability in Wales, as in all parts of the UK, about how those performance standards are met. But I was very clear with NHS health boards at the end of last year. I provided a very specific list of existing standards that the system should already be meeting, which are met in various parts of Wales, but not in all parts of Wales, and the task over the year ahead is to ensure that those standards are met consistently across health boards, and we will be publishing progress against that on, I think, a quarterly basis. So, Members will be able to look at what is developing well and what needs further work in different parts of the system.

He made an important point about appointments, and I hope I was categorically clear in my statement, as I intended to be, that the individuals who are vulnerable will be protected from these arrangements for the very reason that he sensibly set out in his question. But at the end of the day, when we are losing 700,000 appointments a year, it is really important that that capacity is available for patients who are able to take up those appointments. We all want to see access to care becoming faster, and so that's an important part of that solution. It's a partnership approach between the Government and the NHS on the one hand and the public on the other, and my anecdotal reading of it is that people do understand that that is an important part of the way forward.

On the NHS app, the data that he was asking about is already published. It won't be published on the app; that's intended to be a personal tool for an individual patient to be able to manage their healthcare, but the data is available elsewhere in the system. And he'll recall, I think a few weeks ago, I said I would publish a transparency statement in the autumn, which will talk more about how we'll be using openness to encourage that discussion around improvement.

He made an important point around cancer and paediatric waiting times. He will know that we are planning investments to speed up diagnostics, which is one of the challenges in cancer performance generally. He will know that there are specific recommendations in the ministerial advisory group report about how we can improve many aspects of cancer performance. All of those recommendations have been accepted, and a few weeks before that, we were talking about the improvements that I've put in place in relation to the governance of cancer services in Wales, both from the Welsh Government's point of view, but also from the point of view of the NHS Wales performance and improvement team as well.

Lastly, he made a point about patient choice. There is some element of patient choice at the margins in all healthcare systems because of the nature of how services are commissioned, and particularly in relation to some particularly complex treatments and conditions, but I don't think there is any evidence that shows that patient choice is able to make the changes that the Member expects of it. I'm sure he would point to experience over the border, as he is often wont to do. I think it's absolutely clear that patient choice in the NHS in England is absolutely marginal, and I don't think the solution is that; I think the solution is to make sure that in the arrangements we have in Wales, every single patient gets access to the best care in the most timely way possible.

At present, there are over 600,000 people in Wales on a waiting list. Almost one in five of our population is waiting for treatment. I welcome this recent improvement in terms of numbers on waiting lists, and I truly hope that the current Cabinet Secretary will be successful in leaving his post with waiting lists in a better place than when he entered the role, something that none of his predecessors managed to do.

But we must be mindful in welcoming these numbers, because we've been here before. We saw not dissimilar improvement at the end of 2023, and then a continuous increase for over a year thereafter. Far too often recently, this Government has pointed to a new dawn, without perhaps realising that the sun was instead setting, because the Government has failed to hit any of its targets in its care recovery plan, despite the goalposts being moved several times. What measure of success is seeing over 8,000 people waiting over two years for treatment, after promising that no person would be waiting for more than two years by March of 2023?

I recognise that the current Cabinet Secretary has done a much better job than his predecessors in getting to grips with these challenges, but at what cost? What is the enormous cost in terms of individual and family health, and the lack of investment in diagnosis and preventative care that the people of Wales have had to pay to get to this point? We must therefore learn the lessons and accept that you cannot continue to throw money at problems; rather, there is a need for clear national leadership with a focus on outcomes, not systems.

Again, I recognise that the current Cabinet Secretary has shown a willingness to learn from past mistakes. He was right to review the red target for ambulance services, for example, to better align resources and capacity with targets. We must therefore see the same level of honesty and strategic co-ordination permeating through the whole health service.

With finite resources, we must prioritise the right things, rather than introducing a wide range of baseless targets. We must be clearer in terms of national strategies. These were some of the conclusions reached in our Plaid Cymru report on governance reform in the health service, and once again, I call on the Government to implement our recommendations in full.

Our most important resource of all, namely our tens of thousands of dedicated staff, also needs more support. These staff achieve miracles in very challenging circumstances, but their hard work is being undermined by overcomplex targets and a lack of support to enable more effective workforce planning. This is why we need a new workforce plan for the NHS in Wales, as well as improving the quality of data on the size and nature of gaps in staffing. And while there is a lack of national strategic leadership, it can be no surprise, therefore, that there are wide-ranging differences in the quality and consistency of care, with an individual's postcode all too often acting as a barrier to care.

In the past, the Cabinet Secretary has said that the postcode lottery has been solved. I welcome his acknowledgement today that this postcode lottery continues. The Cabinet Secretary is aware that one of our solutions to this is to place regional partnership boards on a statutory footing to enable that more systematic collaboration. However, the Cabinet Secretary has said that ministerial direction is sufficient to enable this to happen, but that isn't working. The Cabinet Secretary's solution today is to create enablers, but there is no explanation of what these enablers are. I wonder, therefore, if we can have an explanation from the Cabinet Secretary as to what he means: what role will these play?

And to conclude, whilst we are talking about priorities, the Cabinet Secretary will be aware that Westminster’s spending review is under way, and the current Labour Government will have an opportunity to act upon long-awaited promises to reform Wales’s financial settlement. Ensuring a fair funding settlement for Wales isn’t just a matter of basic fairness, but is a health priority for the nation. Because every year we see the current Barnett system fail entirely to provide resources in proportion with the needs of Wales: older people, more ill health and greater poverty levels.

Just last week, we saw the fundamental injustice at the heart of the Barnett formula, with Wales losing out to the tune of £70 million as a result of the use of Barnett to allocate Treasury rebates on national insurance contributions. Was there anything more that the Government here could have done to call for a fairer settlement? What is the cost to the health budget of the £72 million of additional tax that Labour has directly imposed on Wales? Did the Cabinet Secretary personally have any contact with partners in Westminster to make the case that this is important to improve the health of Wales and that we need this funding for health in Wales? Thank you.

I thank the Member for his contribution. I think there were two or three specific questions in his contribution. I thank him for welcoming the progress that has been made and for the focus on national leadership that is being demonstrated.

I think the first thing he asked was whether there was a desire to have fewer targets for the health service I would refer him back to the planning framework that I published at the end of last year, which was clear on the targets that we would measure NHS bodies against. So, there are 16 or 17 main targets there that will continue to be the focus for holding health boards to account. Therefore, I hope that that will have provided some comfort to him. He also asked what the enablers were, and that same document published in December of last year does set out the list of enablers and what their focus is, so I hope that will be of value to him too.

What I wouldn't agree with the Member on is the emphasis that he places on structures at the expense of outcomes. I am entirely convinced that the emphasis that he is putting on restructuring elements of the health service will have just one outcome, and that will be to shift the health service's focus from improving performance on to structures and to be concerned about future structures. I think that's the focus of Plaid Cymru's policy in this regard.

Could I also give him the comfort that I hope he desired in terms of the work that the Government has done in making the case for an adequate settlement for Wales in looking at the impact of national insurance changes? The First Minister and the finance Minister, as the Ministers responsible for ensuring an appropriate financial settlement for Wales, worked very hard to make the case for a different settlement. As the Member heard, the Welsh Government intends to contribute towards the gap that has been left by the decision taken by the Westminster Government.

Thank you for the update, and thank you for your work, Cabinet Secretary.

The NHS matters and makes a difference to all of us. It impacts on all of our lives, so it's absolutely right that it should be a Government and a collective priority. Your statement doesn't shy away from the challenges that remain, particularly in Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, but I think it's important to also be clear on the positive progress that has been made. So, that's two-year waits down by 67 per cent over the last three years, over 12,000 patients have come off the two-year wait list, and, of course, the new Llandudno orthopaedic hub is on track to make a difference when that opens later this year. I am hopeful that we are heading in the right direction, but, of course, there is more work to do, as is always the case.

I welcome in your statement the Welsh Government commitment to work alongside health board staff to focus on further turning around its planned care position. I think we should be honest here that the progress has been made possible thanks to additional investment made possible by two Labour Governments working together, but also that wholesale system change needs to happen, and, of course, it wouldn't happen without our workforce in the NHS. So, can I just ask, Cabinet Secretary, for some reassurance about how the workforce can be further involved in terms of identifying improvements and being supported to make them happen on the ground? Diolch.

I thank Hannah Blythyn for those questions. She’s right to say that it’s important to give a balanced picture of where we are. She mentioned Betsi Cadwaladr in her area in particular and her region, and I think the Llandudno orthopaedic unit, when that opens later this year, will be a really fantastic asset for north Wales. I think it will help those patients waiting for their knees and their hips to be seen more quickly, and that’s the kind of initiative that we want to see more of in other parts of Wales, as well.

In terms of the performance of the health board, I’m glad that she was able to acknowledge the progress that has been made; I think the health board itself would be very clear that there is a long way yet to go, but I think it is important to be transparent about where there has been progress, and there absolutely has. I think the health board’s focus has been very much—for reasons I’m sure we would all understand—on stabilising the governance, the leadership, the finances, the safety culture in the health board, and the focus now is on performance. There is a very regular rhythm of engagement with us as a Government, and we have teams of officials working closely, hand in hand, with the team at Betsi to work together on how they can make further progress on their planned care programme. So, I’m confident that that set of relationships is working well and we all want to see progress against that.

She made a very important point about engaging the workforce of the NHS in the process of improvement and in the change, helping the NHS to adapt for the future. Most of us will know that you speak to someone who works in the NHS and they’ll very quickly give you five or six things they think could quite easily be changed and that would make a difference and support them in the important work they do to have even more impact for the hard work that they put in. And so, there are opportunities to do that. One of the things that we’ve been very focused on is to make sure that leaders in the NHS create that workplace culture that encourages that level of engagement. I think that’s very important. I think a really essential part of creating that space and that feeling that people are able to make those contributions to how the system can be changed is giving clinical leadership in the NHS more visibility. She will know that, in our response to the ministerial advisory group, we have particular steps in mind in order to enable that to happen, at a national level but also regionally and at a health board level as well. 

Cabinet Secretary, I wanted to ask a specific question of you having spoken to the Royal College of Anaesthetists. As you know, the anaesthetists play a particular role in the care of two-thirds of hospital patients. They're an integral part of medical care and helping patients to prepare for surgery, ensuring that they can leave appropriately, reducing complexities and leading to the recovery of patients.

In the UK 'State of the Nation' report, it was estimated that there was a shortage of around 150 anaesthetists in Wales in 2021. According to the royal college, by 2040, this will have increased to 800. Over the past five years, there's been a 12 per cent reduction in anaesthetists from the European Union—probably because of Brexit—and a reduction in terms of international graduates within the UK too. The impact of not tackling this issue will mean more burnout for the anaesthetists that we currently have, retention problems in the workforce and ultimately the cancellation of treatments, which will lead to longer waiting lists for patients.

You will know how long it takes for someone to become a consultant anaesthetist—it's 14 years—so, there are no shortcuts here; there is no short-term solution. So, Cabinet Secretary, what plans do you and your Government have in place to tackle this issue and to avoid this predictable crisis?

I thank Rhys ab Owen for the question. I have been undertaking a series of meetings at health boards the length and breadth of Wales over the past few months, meeting people working on the front line. I've spoken to more than one anaesthetist in the course of those discussions and have had an opportunity for them to share their experiences with me in terms of what the Member has mentioned.

We have work in train with HEIW in terms of looking ahead and predicting in terms of needs for different elements of the workforce in future with the health service. I don't have the specific figures for anaesthetists, but I'd be happy to write to the Member.

Cabinet Secretary, it has been very good to see the recent progress in reducing waiting times for elective surgery. In trauma and orthopaedics, for example, as you mentioned, all those replacement hips and knees are allowing people to get on with their lives again—lives that were on hold in many ways, whether for work, or in terms of having time with grandchildren, going on holiday, or indulging in usual activities, such as walking, classes, et cetera. It just affects every aspect of life, and it's very good to see that progress. In Aneurin Bevan University Health Board now, the reduction is very significant. I think that it's now 1 per cent of those on the list for trauma and orthopaedic treatment who have been waiting for over two years. So, we have seen very substantial progress indeed, which is just hugely welcome.

I wonder, Cabinet Secretary, whether you recognise a tension, perhaps, between getting those two-year waits down further and driving the waiting times down further, and giving due priority to those with more urgent medical needs. Those are issues that have been brought to me, where people who are classified as urgent, for example, rather than routine, still seem to be waiting around two years, rather than being seen earlier.

I thank John Griffiths for those questions. I would just say—and I should have said this in answer to Mabon ap Gwynfor, actually—that when we talk about the statistics, we are talking about people, aren't we? These are people who are waiting, often in pain, to be seen. So, that's the lens that I bring to it. It is a challenging situation. We saw at the beginning of the programme that we put in place in November the waiting lists going up before they started to come down. So, there is a level of variability, if you like, in the system. I can't promise you that, every month between now and the end of the Senedd term, we will show the same progress that we have been able to show today. But what I am absolutely clear that we will see is a downward trend, so that more of those people are being seen more quickly.

He asks a very important question about the basis on which the Government or the health service chooses to identify priorities for investment. What I have been very, very clear with health boards about is that the funding that we are providing for two-year waits cannot be at the expense of the core activity in each health board area. So, we have an understanding of what the normal level of activity would be in each specialty in each health board, and that is there to meet the urgent cases that the Member is referring to in his question. And we are able to see where that is changing, so we are able to work with health boards on that. But that is absolutely our clear expectation. I have also said—I do not expect to have to do this, but I have been clear, as a matter of principle—that if we were to see additional funding being used effectively to fund core activity, that would not be acceptable and that funding would need to come back. There is a very clear set of incentives in the system for that work to be continued.

What I would say, though, is that the inability of a system—not just in Wales, but anywhere—to get to grips with a backlog is a very, very serious brake on being able to see people who are urgent, non-urgent. It just has a huge effect on the ability of the system to deliver. So, getting the system back into balance will make a big difference. That is why, actually, in the next year, as well as focusing on the long waits, focusing on the size of the waiting list is so important. If we can get that back into balance, as I am confident that we will be able to, then that does free up capacity for all the other activity that we also need the health service to be doing.

Finally, Russell George.

Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, in your statement today, you said that Powys health board has successfully cleared all of its two-year waits. You would have heard the exchange with the First Minister today, and the First Minister confirmed there are 81 Powys patients who are waiting for more than two years for treatments. That appears to be an apparent contradiction, and I would be grateful if you could explain that.

But if your answer is that, when you say there are no waits in Powys, you are referring to patients being treated in Powys, would you not acknowledge that that is a little disingenuous because Powys patients can't be treated in Powys because there is no district general hospital to treat them? So, would you accept that position?

Further to that, the First Minister, I thought, made a rather bizarre statement about those 81 patients, saying 40 of them were waiting in English hospitals and the English NHS was being slow to treat them. That, also, is bizarre, Cabinet Secretary, because you will know Powys health board have asked providers in England to deliberately slow down treatment, even though there is capacity in those hospitals in England, for financial reasons. When questioned on this by me and others, you say that Powys health board is funded by the Welsh Government to treat patients based on the Welsh waiting time targets, which I accept, but would you accept that the Welsh Government is not funding Powys health board to fund patients being treated in English hospitals based on the English waiting time targets?

I'm slightly bemused, I'm bound to say, but I'm happy to give the Member the clarification that he's looking for. As he will know, I think, as a former Chair of the health committee, we publish waiting times and waiting lists based on the status of health providers. So, Powys, as a teaching health board, is a provider of healthcare, and we measure its performance as a provider.

He will also, I think, know that the waiting list isn't only comprised of people waiting for treatments in district general hospitals, so it is perfectly accurate to say that Powys Teaching Health Board has cleared its two-year waits. That is the standard basis on which we report. Nothing is going to change. Nothing in the statement I've made today has changed that. The First Minister was making a very different point about where patients from Powys are treated in England. The point I would make to the Member is this: it is absolutely clear that Powys has the funding it requires to meet the Welsh targets. That is what we expect of all health boards in Wales. It is no different for Powys—no easier, no more difficult—and that is as it should be.

Just one short final question—Jenny Rathbone.

Thank you very much. Congratulations to you and to everybody else who's been involved in getting these waiting lists down, because I know how much people are working so hard to do this.

I was very heartened by your statement that, in future, you hope all referrals will come from optometrists to the consultant ophthalmologist—absolutely, the high-street optometrists definitely know what they're doing. 

I just wondered, therefore, whether you've given any consideration to how we improve the waits for kidney stones, because we're still sending them onto the waiting list for an urologist. When I last looked, all the scans and all the lithotripsy—the blasting of the kidney stone—are done by radiologists. So, why on earth are urologists getting involved, particularly when these are people who are expert patients with years of experience of kidney stones?

Jenny Rathbone, I'm grateful to you for the acknowledgement that you've given to the hard work in the NHS to deliver the progress that we've been able to report.

I think the examples that she gives, both in relation to ophthalmology, and the opportunity she's describing as well in relation to kidney stones, are the lens that we need to bring to all specialties, particularly, but not only, at the less complex end, because we know that by delivering primary care in different ways, putting diagnostics into the community in larger and more ambitious ways, and some less complex interventions, we can make quite a big difference. So, a number of the enabling actions I was discussing earlier are in the space of applying those sorts of standards.

The one I was referring to in my statement is to eliminate unnecessary steps in the pathway. We know that there is very, very good evidence that, where we are able to apply those standards consistently across health board areas, we are able to make rapid improvement. I think that part of the solution to how we can be better at doing that, frankly, is to make sure the clinical voice is heard more loudly in relation to bringing forward those changes. If clinicians hear from others who've successfully delivered interventions in a different way, a more efficient way, both from a funding point of view but also from a patient point of view, then that is persuasive. I think we already see evidence of that in the system, really good innovation, and it's more of that we want to see.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

Item 7 is next. This is a statement by the Minister for Further and Higher Education on Taith. Therefore, I call on Vikki Howells to make the statement.

Llywydd, I am delighted to provide an update today on Taith, our flagship international learning exchange programme. In these globally uncertain times, it has never been more important to strengthen links with our international partners, and education makes a huge contribution to our international ambitions. I recognise that my role, and that of Welsh Government, is crucial in helping to raise the international profile of our education institutions and continuing to make Wales an outward-looking nation. My starting point, and my priority, will always be the best interests of learners. I want young people to participate in international exchange programmes, to appreciate diverse cultures and to understand the importance of collaboration on global issues. By embracing these opportunities, learners can become empowered to make meaningful contributions and drive positive change in Wales and beyond.

Taith has developed significantly since its inception, and I'm proud to see the positive impact it is having on our communities and on our global reputation. Our investment to date has provided vital funding to support 220 Taith projects, resulting in over 15,000 predicted mobilities. Three hundred and eight organisations across Wales will benefit, and collaborative projects are forecast to involve nearly 100 countries and territories. By the end of 2025, almost £30 million of Taith funding will have been awarded to projects across Wales. These facts and figures are in themselves worth celebrating, but it's the real stories and experiences behind those numbers that I find truly inspiring and remind me why this investment is so worth while.

I was particularly interested to hear recently about a project bringing together young people and staff from Ysgol Greenhill with a children’s rights organisation, a local youth service and a grass-roots anti-violence partner in New Zealand. It was a powerful project where participants explored ways to address gender-based violence and to reinforce the impact that individuals and organisations can have in tackling it. Students worked closely with the youth service to develop a digital toolkit for practitioners, working with young people around gender equality.

A few weeks ago, I had the pleasure of visiting Hijinx, a remarkable professional theatre company based here in Cardiff that creates opportunities for actors with learning disabilities across Wales. I spoke with individuals who had participated in a mobility to Germany. They took part in an exchange with a renowned inclusive theatre company, and engaged with global leaders in inclusive arts, and they shared with me how this experience had been truly stimulating. The impact of this mobility was clear. The staff and artists felt empowered and inspired, gaining new perspectives and skills that they are eager to bring back to Wales. I could see first-hand the transformative power of these opportunities. Taith is committed to widening participation, and around 44 per cent of people taking part in outbound mobilities are from underrepresented groups. This includes individuals from disadvantaged backgrounds, ethnic minorities, people with disabilities, and those with additional learning needs.

Taith has not only directly provided life-changing international learning opportunities for participants, but has been key in strengthening and developing new partnerships. On my visit to Pembrokeshire College, I heard how a staff visit to a wind turbine training centre in Canada resulted in a new partnership. They were able to secure agreement with the College of the North Atlantic to jointly design and deliver a training course for offshore floating windfarms, to provide people in Wales with the critical skills needed for the future of renewable energy sources.

Taith continues to evolve and improve. This ongoing development was recently highlighted by the introduction of a new small grant funding scheme. This change was driven by feedback from small organisations across the schools, youth and adult education sectors who felt that the previous application process could be more accessible, particularly for lower levels of funding. By adopting a proportional application process, Taith has made it easier for these organisations to apply, reducing bureaucracy and streamlining processes. 

This new approach has directly contributed to the record numbers seen in the most recent funding call for pathway 1, which closed at the end of March. It received a record 145 applications, surpassing the previous high number of 87. Notably, there were more than twice as many applications in the youth category and almost twice as many in schools compared to previous calls. Additionally, almost half of the applying organisations had never applied to Taith before, highlighting the programme's growing reach and accessibility, particularly benefiting under-represented groups.

The success of Taith is evident, and the tangible impact it is making across Wales and beyond has contributed enormously to our international reputation across the globe. I would like to place on record my heartfelt thanks to the staff of the Taith delivery organisation, ILEP Ltd, hosted by Cardiff University, for their immense contribution to the success of the programme. I've received countless commendations from international counterparts and ambassadors, all praising the reciprocal and globally responsible values embedded in Taith. Taith is recognised as a leader in inclusion and accessibility, with the EU looking to learn from its success in shaping the future of Erasmus+. This is a strong endorsement for both Wales and the programme's growing reputation.

I want to continue to provide opportunities and to build upon our investment in Taith, so I am absolutely delighted to confirm an extension to the programme to March 2028. This extension will allow us to continue to provide high-impact, accessible opportunities for those who can benefit from them the most. In this uncertain world, it is more important than ever to show we are an outward-looking nation grounded in strong values, and now is not the time to renege on our international ambitions. My confirmation today of Taith’s extension, and the recently announced continuation of funding to Global Wales, reflect our unwavering commitment to fostering international collaboration and supporting the aspirations of our learners. Together, we will continue to create opportunities that not only transform individual lives, but also strengthen our global connections and reinforce our dedication to education and cultural exchange.

Can I thank the Minister for this afternoon's statement? Can I also associate myself with the Minister's remarks about the best interests of learners being a priority? Travelling, studying and working abroad can indeed unlock major benefits and opportunities for individuals. There's no denying that. I can vouch for it personally, having spent a stint working in Brussels when I was doing my AS-levels many moons ago. That experience, without a doubt, provided me with a great deal of personal growth and life skills. I know many of those in my region benefit from Taith, including a group of Gwent Police cadets who, indeed, went on an international exchange to Florida.

Minister, whilst I cannot argue that Taith does not have laudable aims, for me it is about ensuring value for money for the taxpayer. I appreciate that you've outlined some experiences of those who have taken part in Taith this afternoon, but how much has this programme contributed to promoting Wales as, and I quote, ‘a country of collaboration and innovation’? Of course, I cannot indeed ever knock the Pembrokeshire College partnership, but if there are other tangible benefits that you can perhaps share with us today that have come from the Taith scheme I would be really grateful for that. Minister, can you also outline how exactly the Welsh Government measures the success of this programme versus the cost to the Welsh taxpayer? Has the Welsh Government made any economic assessment about the benefits of this programme? I'd also like to know if the Government has any key performance indicators in place going forward as well.

As you mentioned in your statement, Taith has facilitated more than 15,000 predicted mobilities. It is one thing paying for students to take part in these international trips, but I note that Taith also provides funding for school staff to attend as well. So, Minister, does that represent good value for money to the public purse, and have any alternative funding streams or models been looked at to cover the costs of staff and teachers going forward? Minister, in this afternoon's statement, you mentioned a record 145 applications being received for the most recent Taith funding call. Can you kindly elaborate on how Taith is advertised and educational institutions are indeed made aware of the opportunities available to them? Are you satisfied with the current approach, or do you think that there are additional steps that could be taken to boost awareness of the programme going forward?

Now, the crux of today's statement has been to announce that Taith is being extended until March 2028. So, Minister, what is the price tag associated with this extension? You also talk about how the programme continues to evolve and improve. You've pointed to the new, smaller grant funding scheme, but have other lessons been learnt that will help shape future improvements as well?

As I said earlier, the current programme has enabled 15,000 mobilities, and Taith claims to have paid for 10,000 youngsters from around the world to come to Wales. So, will the next set of targets for the extended programme be more ambitious going forward? If so, can you please shed some light on what it might look like for the rest of us here? Taith offers the opportunity for many young people to leave Wales for the first time, which is refreshing, and I note that the scheme also applies to pupil referral units. So, how did you determine whether this was a success, and how will the next phase of this scheme further support young people who are entitled to free school meals and out of the formal education system?

Taith, as we all know, and as you mentioned as well in your statement, Minister, is delivered by ILEP Ltd, which is a subsidiary of Cardiff University. Given the announced extension, is there any scope for getting more Welsh universities involved in Taith in the future?

Minister, the Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport and International Relations Committee recently heard from witnesses that they were concerned about the underfunding of Taith and the limitations of the current funding, given the rise of costs, for example, with travel, as well as limitations on which countries can be visited. So, given the challenges institutions have been reporting back to Taith about this, have you considered these concerns, and what action, if any, will you be taking in light of this?

Minister, the overarching aim of Taith is something I absolutely do support, and I hope to be a constructive friend rather than a critical friend when it comes to this as a programme, because, like you said, the best interests of learners is indeed a top priority. Thank you so much.

Can I thank Natasha Asghar for those questions and comments? And it's really good to see that you support the values of the scheme and that you've benefited from such a scheme in the past as well. I know you're not the only Member in this Chamber who will have done so. It's undoubted that exchange schemes like this really do deliver so many benefits to learners in terms of confidence, learning about the world and bringing those back to Wales. So, it's a scheme that I'm very proud that the Welsh Government has invested in.

It's good to hear about the programme that the Gwent Police cadets also participated in. I think that just goes to show how inclusive a programme Taith is—that it's not just a scheme for formal educational establishments, that other youth groups can apply to it and gain successfully from it as well.

So, you ask about how much Taith has contributed to promoting Wales, and, certainly, from the conversations I've had with educational partners from around the world, Taith is extremely well known. I was at the Education World Forum in London just a few weeks ago; I was really struck by the number of people who wanted to approach me to have those conversations about Taith. I think the fact that the EU are looking, when they are modelling up the new Erasmus+ scheme, to Taith as an example of good practice really does speak volumes.

I also had a very constructive meeting earlier on today with Nick Thomas-Symonds, the Minister for the Constitution and European Union Relations. He was saying exactly the same—that the UK Government want to learn from Taith, and particularly impressed by its inclusive nature. And it's just so good to see that people from not just the UK, but around the world and in Europe, are looking to learn from Taith and see it as a model of best practice.

And you ask: how do we measure the success of Taith? You can look at that in raw numbers, but I think the best way to actually measure the value, aside from the figures that I've just quoted about mobilities, is actually having those conversations with people who have participated in the Taith pathways, who will talk very eloquently and sometimes very movingly about the opportunities that it has brought to them. I think my visit to Hijinx Theatre just the other week was a really striking example of that, to speak to young actors and performers who had different learning disabilities who'd been able to go abroad and really advocate for Wales and for the sector that they loved there with drama and entertainment, and to bring back examples that they can use then within their own group setting.

You ask as well about funding for staff and whether I would consider that to be good value, and I really do. That comes from the conversations that I've had with staff who have engaged in schemes like that. I think particularly the Pembrokeshire College example, it's something that is really transformative, to have visited Canada and to come back with an agreement there about how you can train up people in the technology that's needed for wind turbines. It's really a regional leading economic development, and an example of how, within the FE sector, engagements like this can lead to projects that we would probably only usually associate with our universities.

You refer also to the issues with funding, and I take that on board. You will know that we have had to make difficult decisions across all sectors to manage our budget effectively. We recognise that the funding pressures have reached into Taith, and we understand that some organisations are finding it challenging to deliver opportunities within the current financial constraints. That was really my main reason for extending Taith by that extra year. We know that there's been £30 million allocated and spent on that already, and, with the increased funding calls to come, we predict that we will reach £56 million by 2028.

May I thank the Minister for this statement this afternoon? Plaid Cymru, of course, will always support the rights of young people to live, work, travel and study abroad. One of the many negative impacts of Brexit was that the UK, and therefore Wales, could no longer participate in the transformational Erasmus programme. This was a bitter blow, particularly given that one of the architects of the programme was Dr Hywel Ceri Jones, a Welshman and a European to his core. The Taith programme was, therefore, a development to welcome, and, although it doesn't replace the depth and breadth of the opportunities available through Erasmus in full, it does provide opportunities for the next generation, and particularly for some groups and sectors, such as FE colleges, youth services, and some third sector organisations, who perhaps have not benefited as much from Erasmus in the past. We've heard quite a few examples mentioned of the success of the programme quoted by the Minister today, and that is to be welcomed, of course.

This is why, during a Plaid Cymru debate on Brexit and Europe earlier this year, I called for certainty regarding Taith's future, because, at that time, funding was coming to an end in August 2026. So, whilst the extension of the Taith programme until March 2028 is welcome, we can't forget, of course, that this comes on the back of the budget allocation for Taith being reduced by nearly 20 per cent in 2024-25, compared to 2023-24, and, in real terms, a cut of effectively 50 per cent. So, would the Minister outline the impact she believes this cut has had on the delivery of the programme, and what is the specific amount of funding now available to the Taith programme to cover their work during this extension period?

In their report, 'Wales Beyond Borders', Universities Wales called for Welsh Government, and I quote,

'to work closely with the UK Government to evaluate the case for UK participation in the next Erasmus+ programme.'

Now, following the supposed reset of the UK-EU relations just last month, we now know that discussions are ongoing, not only for the UK to have associate membership of Erasmus+, but also there will be joint working towards a new youth mobility scheme. So, two questions: did the Welsh Government have any input into these discussions, and, secondly, what impact will these developments have on the provision of the Taith programme in Wales? Plaid Cymru would welcome the continuation of Taith as well as associate membership of a UK-EU level of Erasmus+. That would provide us with the best of both worlds, which I'm sure would be appreciated by our HE sector in particular, in making our universities even more appealing to prospective students at this trying time for the sector.

So, finally, if the UK and EU agree a new deal for associate membership of Erasmus, will Welsh Government continue the Taith programme? And lastly, given the underwhelming results we've seen from the supposed partnership in power, what guarantees can the Minister provide that the interests of Wales will be considered and that the Welsh Government will be involved in future discussions between the UK and the EU?

Thank you, Cefin Campbell, for those questions, and it's good to see your support for the Taith programme and all that it delivers, to encourage young people, and adult learners as well, to be able to travel abroad to enhance their studies and to return with new skills. And I agree with you that one of the very many detrimental impacts of leaving the EU was the fact that the then UK Tory Government decided to withdraw from Erasmus. But it has delivered opportunities here in Wales for us to really create a scheme that is bespoke to Wales and that has been—as I said in my answer to Natasha Asghar—really lauded by experts from around the world for its inclusivity and for the fact that it has really prioritised those opportunities for under-represented groups.

I think we can contrast that as well with the UK Government's Turing scheme, which I would argue has not been as successful as Taith, and has had a much narrower impact. We, here in Wales, have seen a real decrease in the percentage of total funding allocated from Turing to us here in Wales. I think that's something that was also reflected in the conversations that I had this morning with Minister Nick Thomas-Symonds, the Minister for the Constitution and European Union Relations, and also the broader discussions that I had at the Education World Forum recently, where it is so clear that our partners in the EU are looking to learn from Taith as they reshape the next version of Erasmus, Erasmus+, rather than learning from Turing.

I'm glad that you also really flagged up there the involvement of different groups within Taith. You referred there to FE colleges; I've also seen some really great examples of adult learners who come from disadvantaged backgrounds and under-represented groups engaging through Taith, and having really life-changing opportunities.

You mentioned the reduction in the budget for Taith and, as I said to Natasha Asghar, that was, of course, part of the difficult decisions that we've had to take in recent years around our budget and also one of the key reasons why I wanted to extend the Taith programme, so that we can really reach as many people as possible who want to engage with that. As I said earlier, we predict now that we can reach £56 million spent on this project by 2028. You referred also to the Universities Wales report there, 'Wales Beyond Borders'; I thought it was an excellent report. I was really pleased to speak at the launch of that report back in March.

The rest of your questions were around our involvement in the negotiations on Erasmus+ and the youth mobility scheme, and we have been really integral partners in those discussions, both at an official level and at a ministerial level. I'm really confident that those discussions will continue, and I think they will continue at pace, because we'll see swift movement on this. We are looking, of course, for all the very best measures from Taith to be included within the offer for Erasmus+.

You ask about the future of the Taith programme as well, and I understand your reasons for asking that. It's not a question that I can answer today because we do need to work through all the wider implications. We wouldn't want to be duplicating the work of an Erasmus+ programme if we get everything we're looking for within that. But I'm keeping an open mind, and so are my officials. In the meantime, my focus is on the delivery of the current programme and ensuring that learners can have all the international opportunities that they deserve.

Alun Davies.

I am grateful to you, Presiding Officer, and grateful to the Minister for her statement this afternoon. I think it's right and proper that we pay tribute to Hywel Ceri Jones and the work he did in Brussels to establish Erasmus and to establish a principle of creating a living bridge between our different countries, where young people can enjoy the freedom of movement, the freedom of travel, the freedom to learn, and the freedom to understand different countries is part of, perhaps, our DNA.

And what I'm anxious that we're able to do, Minister, is to learn from each other and to learn from our experience. One of the great things about membership of the European Union—and I'm absolutely confident that we will be rejoining in future years—is that we were able to share experiences and share learning. We were able to share the experience of running very similar programmes in different countries in different ways. And I'm interested to understand, Minister, how you intend to share our learning with our European friends and colleagues, so that when we do re-enter Erasmus+, and when we do re-enter the institutions of the European Union, we won't have lost the learning during this period and we will be able to maintain our contribution to the development of thinking and experience across the whole of our European homeland.

Can I thank Alun Davies for those questions and for his continued passion for an outward-facing nation? And I'm sure that many of your constituents in Blaenau Gwent will have benefited from the Taith programme. I agree with you that this really is part of our DNA. We are an outward-facing nation, we are a nation that embraces different cultures, languages and traditions and is always keen to learn from others, and that is exactly what our Taith system embodied.

So, you asked how I intend to share our learning from the Taith programme as Erasmus+ is developed. So, as I've referenced in answers to other Members, I had a very, very, very productive meeting with Nick Thomas-Symonds, the Minister for the Constitution and European Union Relations, today, and that ministerial engagement will continue as we build on those discussions around rejoining Erasmus+. My officials are also very well engaged with officials from the Department for Education, as well as officials from the Cabinet Office, and they are really keen and eager to learn from our experiences with Taith.

And not just on the issue of inclusivity and engaging harder-to-reach groups, which I've referenced in my previous answers, but also on our differentiated grant scheme as well, which I think has been a real game changer, introducing that small grant scheme for visits of less than £60,000. That has really supported smaller and less-well-resourced organisations who wish to bid into Taith, and the process was reviewed with the introduction of an application and assessment process that's more proportionate to the amount of funding being requested. And I think we see that across Government, don't we, that when people are applying for smaller grants, those high levels of bureaucracy can put them off. So, I would hope that that is one element—perhaps a less glamorous element, but a very important element nonetheless—that we can learn from as we feed in the success stories from Taith to the plans for Erasmus+.

I thank the Minister.

Item 8 is the next item on our agenda. This is the legislative consent motion on the Product Regulation and Metrology Bill. Rebecca Evans will move the motion.

Thank you, Llywydd. I move the motion that the Senedd consent to the relevant provisions in the Product Regulation and Metrology Bill, as set out in the legislative consent memoranda laid on this Bill.

The Product Regulation and Metrology Bill contains provisions about the marketing or use of products in the United Kingdom, and the units of measurement and the quantities in which goods are marketed in the United Kingdom. The UK’s product safety and metrology framework is derived from EU law and has developed over the past four decades whilst the UK was a member of the EU. However, on leaving the EU, the UK set up an independent regime. The Bill will help to ensure that product safety is effectively legislated and it will have a range of potential benefits with respect to public safety. This is vital to ensure a whole range of products on offer in the UK, many of which we now tend to buy from online marketplaces, are safe—from electric bikes through to children's toys.

The Bill is also necessary to address current and future challenges. This includes the move to net zero and the continuing development of new technologies such as artificial intelligence, as well as to reflect the shift in both what consumers buy and how they buy it. I therefore support the Product Regulation and Metrology Bill and the development of a UK-wide product safety regime. This can be seen as a key part of a shared ambition to support an effective UK internal market and to ensure that we're able to safeguard the safety of existing and new products.

In September, we laid a legislative consent memorandum and supplementary legislative consent memoranda in March and, most recently, on 12 May. I thank the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs  Committee and the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their scrutiny of the legislative consent memoranda and for their recommendations on this Bill. I've been clear with the UK Government on the need to ensure appropriate legislative safeguards for devolved interests. I've had discussions with both Lord Leong and Minister Justin Madders in respect of this Bill. Following these discussions, Members will have noted the inclusion of a consent mechanism that will prevent UK Government from legislating in devolved areas without the consent of Welsh Ministers.

I acknowledge that this outcome does not fully satisfy the positions reached by Senedd committees that have considered the Bill. I also recognise that this does not fully align with the position that the Welsh Government would usually adopt. However, I am of the view that this amendment represents a significant safeguard in an area where there is a complicated mixture of devolved and reserved interests. Crucially, the Bill will not allow the UK Government to exercise powers in devolved areas without our agreement. The amendment from the UK Government also represents a notable departure from the approaches that we saw under the former UK Government in similar situations, and that is to be welcomed. I therefore recommend that the Senedd supports the proposals and gives its consent.

Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mike Hedges

Diolch, Llywydd. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee has laid two reports on the three legislative consent memoranda made for this Bill. In November, the committee laid its first report, and its second report was laid before the Whitsun recess. The main focus of the reports are the power in clause 1 of the Bill that enables UK Government Ministers to make regulations on products in the devolved areas of health, economic development, environmental protection, and animal and plant health. In the version of the Bill as introduced, the Welsh Ministers had no role in the exercise of these powers, not to mention the lack of a scrutiny role for the Senedd. By using the powers in the Bill, UK Government Ministers will be able to decide whether to align or diverge from EU law.

In its first report, the committee called for the Bill to be amended to include a role for the Senedd and the Welsh Ministers when its powers are exercised in devolved areas. It is only by these means that there will be an opportunity for the Senedd and its committees to monitor any decisions to align the law in devolved areas with EU law, or otherwise diverge from EU law. In light of the recent common understanding agreement between the UK and the EU, which sets the basis for the first alignment between the two in areas of devolved competence, it is important that the Bill is not used as a precedent for how relevant EU rules and regulations are transposed in future into UK and Welsh law. The committee's first report also shared concerns raised by the UK parliamentary committees about the broadness of the Bill's powers and how they make the Bill very framework in nature, as well as one that takes powers away from the legislature and gives them to the Executive.

While the Bill has been amended, although very late in its passage, the Cabinet Secretary has stated she would have liked the UK Government to go further. While UK Government Ministers will now need to obtain the consent of the Welsh Ministers before using the powers in the Bill in devolved areas, Welsh Ministers will still have no corresponding powers of their own. As a consequence, the Senedd will have no oversight of potential significant regulations in devolved areas, and this is unsatisfactory. The question of who will decide whether regulations made under these powers are being exercised in devolved areas is unclear to the committee, in particular if there is an inter-governmental dispute on this point. It may be the case that the courts could be asked to decide on the matter. With this in mind, the committee does not believe that the consent mechanism in the Bill presents a constitutionally satisfactory provision, and has called on the Cabinet Secretary to provide clarity on how such a dispute would be resolved.

The committee is of the view that if the Bill is enacted, the Senedd would have the necessary powers to amend the Bill to the extent that it applies to devolved areas. We have asked the Cabinet Secretary if she shares this view, and, in January, she told us that this approach would require a full assessment of legislative competence. She also told us at the time that she was confident that positive outcomes would be reached in discussions with the UK Government about the powers in the Bill. As those discussions have not resulted in the Welsh Government’s preferred outcome, we have now called on the Cabinet Secretary to conduct that assessment of legislative competence within six months.

I will briefly touch on another matter raised in our reports: how the provisions in this Bill will interact with common frameworks. The Welsh Government has previously said that the UK common policy frameworks have the potential to be enduring, flexible and increasingly significant governance mechanisms. In our first report, we highlighted concerns about the potential impact of the Bill’s provisions on these common frameworks, and called on the Welsh Government to provide an assessment of this. Again, in response to this recommendation, the Cabinet Secretary told the committee that the Bill’s interaction with common frameworks will depend on the outcome of discussions with the UK Government around the Bill’s delegated powers. As these discussions have now come to a close, in our second report we have again requested an assessment of the amended Bill’s interaction with common frameworks. Thank you.

Of course, Plaid Cymru is supportive of greater alignment with the EU, and this is a step in the right direction. However, these decisions should be made by the Senedd, rather than imposed by the UK Government. Now, the Bill does grant UK Ministers power to legislate in areas of devolved competence without requiring the consent of the Welsh Government, which ultimately undermines the devolution settlement here in Wales, and is an area of concern raised, as we’ve heard, by the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee report. Now, of course, I do note what the Cabinet Secretary said around that consent mechanism, but, as we’ve just heard from the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, they are still of the view that that consent mechanism does not go far enough, and there are still issues with the LCM.

So, I would be grateful for further detail on that consent mechanism from the Cabinet Secretary, how it will work in practice, because, as it currently stands, we can’t vote in favour of this LCM.

I’m not a member of the committee, so I may not have had the fine details of this legislative consent motion, but where I do have a concern is on the points that have actually been raised by the LJC, by Mike there, but also the other comments that have been made. And I have a very real concern, and that is: we’ve set out and identified what we think is probably necessary in terms of the guaranteeing protections of the devolved functions and responsibilities that we have, but, yet again, we end up going through this process of engagement with the UK Government, where some concessions are made et cetera, but we end up consistently, as we did with the last Government, having to basically accept almost an ultimatum—‘This is as good as it gets’ and so on. That, for me, is not a proper implementation of Sewell.

And what I would like to see is, really, some clarification on those areas that we wanted that the UK Government would not agree, and why they would not agree to them. But, secondly, in the longer term, on this issue, what stand are we going to take? Because, surely, we’re going to get to a position where we can’t continually be accepting these sort of halfway measures et cetera, which are, in fact, in breach of Sewell, and that we should actually be getting to a stage where, quite frankly, as a Government, and as a Senedd, we’re basically saying that we’re not prepared to give legislative consent. And I think this is a non-party issue, but it seems to me that, because this legislation started with the previous Government, it seems that that culture has continued through, and we need to have a far more robust position.

I have to say: if we continue to get these legislative consent memoranda, where we have these half-baked concessions being made along the way, then serious consideration might have to be given by the Senedd as to itself basically deciding to refuse legislative consent.

The Cabinet Secretary now to reply. Rebecca Evans. 

I am very grateful to the Chair and to other colleagues for their comments this afternoon. There were a number of really important points raised, so I do want to respond to them. One was in relation to the ability of the UK product requirements to align or not to align with EU legislation. I know that was of particular interest to the committee. The aim of the Bill is to provide powers to make secondary legislation to regulate on product safety, and it's the stated aim of the Bill to ensure that those regulations keep pace with EU law and other key global developments. So, our view is that this would be beneficial to trade, including with the EU. However, the Bill is a framework Bill and the specific impact on any trade and co-operation agreement compliance or broader trade impacts will be dependent on the exact nature of the secondary legislation made using the powers under the Bill. And as this secondary legislation doesn't yet exist, we can't say at this stage what the impact would be on the TCA. But officials working on the legislation are in close contact with the trade policy team on that.

There was a further question around the interaction with the common frameworks. So, that isn't fully clear at the moment, because the interactions will be dependent on the manner in which the delegated powers are exercised in future, as well as the existence of other delegated powers that are relevant to the respective framework areas. But I think, on the really substantive points that colleagues have raised in relation to the decision to recommend consent, I will be perfectly frank with colleagues that this was not an easy decision for me to take in terms of recommending consent, because I do share some of the concerns that colleagues have raised. But I thought about it and, on balance, given the existence of other executive functions for Welsh Ministers in similar areas and the requirement for the Secretary of State to seek the consent of Welsh Ministers to make secondary legislation in devolved areas, I am content that, in this case, the new clauses do provide safeguards to protect devolved interests. I would, of course, welcome the conferral of relevant powers on Welsh Ministers. The consent mechanism is a genuine, legally enforceable safeguard to devolved interests, and I don't think that that should be in any way undersold, because nothing within the Bill limits the ability of this Senedd to legislate in the devolved areas of health, economic development, environmental protection and animal and plant health, and I think that that is really important as well. 

And then on that important point about disputes, should they arise, with the UK Government, we would of course, as we always do, endeavour to avoid disputes in the first instance, but if there is need for further escalation, we do have, of course, that dispute-resolution process, and that remains available, as do the legal mechanisms that underpin the fundamental safeguards afforded through the statutory provisions.

So, I'm really grateful to colleagues. I think that the wider points are well made in respect of the ways in which engagement goes on with the UK Government to try to secure full respect for devolution. I think that, in respect of this particular Bill, I am confident that the benefits will be there for businesses in Wales and, as such, I would recommend consent on this occasion. 

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there are objections. We will therefore defer voting until voting time.

Unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, we will move directly to that vote. So, the vote is on the legislative consent motion on the Product Regulation and Metrology Bill, and I call for a vote on the motion, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 39, no abstentions, 10 against. Therefore, the motion is agreed.

That brings today's proceedings to a close. Thank you, all.