Y Cyfarfod Llawn - Y Bumed Senedd
Plenary - Fifth Senedd
03/04/2019Cynnwys
Contents
Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair.
The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.
Galw'r Aelodau i drefn.
I call Members to order.
Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni'r prynhawn yma yw'r cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Cyllid a'r Trefnydd, a'r cwestiwn cyntaf, Delyth Jewell.
The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd, and the first question, Delyth Jewell.
1. Pa adnoddau ariannol a ddyrannwyd hyd yn hyn gan Lywodraeth Cymru wrth baratoi at Brexit heb gytundeb? OAQ53726
1. What financial resources have been allocated to date by the Welsh Government in preparation for the event of a 'no deal' Brexit? OAQ53726
We have called on the UK Government to release funds to tackle its self-imposed chaos. As well as allocating £34 million through the European Union transition fund, we have been actively increasing preparations for a 'no deal' exit, including the Preparing Wales portal, redeploying staff resources, and co-ordinating work across public services.
Rydym wedi galw ar Lywodraeth y DU i ryddhau arian i fynd i'r afael â'r anhrefn y mae wedi’i achosi iddi ei hun. Yn ogystal â dyrannu £34 miliwn drwy gronfa bontio'r Undeb Ewropeaidd, rydym wedi bod yn cynyddu paratoadau ar gyfer ymadawiad 'dim bargen', gan gynnwys porth Paratoi Cymru, adleoli adnoddau staff, a chydlynu gwaith ar draws y gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.
I thank the Minister for her answer. Of course, the resources that have been spent on 'no deal' planning could have been spent on the Welsh national health service and our schools, which are crying out for investment, had the Westminster Government negotiated a sensible deal, along the lines set out in the joint Plaid Cymru/Welsh Government White Paper, 'Securing Wales' Future', published in January 2017. Not doing so led to total gridlock in Westminster, economic uncertainty and the requirement for Welsh Government to expend time and resources preparing for the eventuality of a 'no deal' Brexit. Could the Minister inform us whether it is her understanding that UK Government spending on 'no deal' is Barnettised? And, further to that, does the Minister agree that the British Treasury should compensate Welsh Government for any funds spent on Wales-specific preparations in this regard, since it is the fault of the Westminster Government that these valuable Welsh funds have been squandered?
Diolch i'r Gweinidog am ei hateb. Wrth gwrs, gallai'r adnoddau a wariwyd ar gynllunio 'dim bargen' fod wedi cael eu gwario ar y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yng Nghymru a'n hysgolion, sy'n galw allan am fuddsoddiad, pe bai Llywodraeth San Steffan wedi negodi cytundeb synhwyrol, yn debyg i’r hyn a nodwyd ym Mhapur Gwyn Plaid Cymru/Llywodraeth Cymru ar y cyd, 'Diogelu Dyfodol Cymru', a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Ionawr 2017. Arweiniodd peidio â gwneud hynny at anghytundeb yn San Steffan, at ansicrwydd economaidd, a'r angen i Lywodraeth Cymru dreulio amser ac adnoddau'n paratoi at y posibilrwydd o Brexit 'dim bargen'. A allai'r Gweinidog ein hysbysu a yw gwariant Llywodraeth y DU ar 'ddim bargen' wedi’i Farnetteiddio yn ôl yr hyn y mae'n ei ddeall? Ac ymhellach, a yw'r Gweinidog yn cytuno y dylai Trysorlys Prydain ddigolledu Llywodraeth Cymru am unrhyw arian a wariwyd ar baratoadau penodol i Gymru yn hyn o beth, gan mai Llywodraeth San Steffan sydd ar fai am fod y cronfeydd Cymreig gwerthfawr hyn wedi cael eu gwastraffu?
Thank you very much. There's very little that I could disagree with in the statement that you've provided this afternoon, which does demonstrate the level of expense that the Welsh Government is making in terms of investing to ensure that we are as best prepared as we possibly can for a Brexit of whatever type that might take. But what I have to say as well is that the funds that we're putting in through the EU transition fund and the level of resource that the Welsh Government is having to turn away from our day-to-day, core business and put into 'no deal' planning are absolutely huge and this is dominating the work of all departments. We have allocated funding that we have had as a Barnett consequential through our EU transition fund. So, some of that funding has gone to the business resilience fund—that's £1.7 million; £1.2 million to strengthen the capacity of local authorities to respond to Brexit; £435,000 to develop police capacity to respond to any civil contingencies; £0.5 million for local resilience forums, who will co-ordinate the response to civil contingencies, as and when they emerge; and £0.5 million to expand the provision of information and support, including immigration advice, to help European Economic Area citizens who are living in Wales. All of these are things that we only have to do because of the chaos that the UK Government has brought about.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Ychydig iawn y gallwn anghytuno ag ef yn y datganiad rydych wedi'i roi y prynhawn yma, sy'n dangos y lefel o wariant y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud o ran buddsoddi er mwyn sicrhau ein bod mor barod ag y gallwn fod ar gyfer pa fath bynnag o Brexit a allai ddigwydd. Ond mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hefyd fod yr arian yr ydym yn ei ddarparu drwy gronfa bontio'r UE, lefel yr adnoddau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gorfod eu cyfeirio oddi wrth ein busnes craidd o ddydd i ddydd, a’u rhoi tuag at gynlluniau 'dim bargen', yn enfawr, ac mae'n dominyddu gwaith pob adran. Rydym wedi dyrannu cyllid a gawsom fel swm canlyniadol Barnett drwy gronfa bontio’r UE. Felly, mae rhywfaint o'r arian hwnnw wedi mynd i'r gronfa cydnerthedd busnes—sef £1.7 miliwn; aeth £1.2 miliwn tuag at gryfhau gallu awdurdodau lleol i ymateb i Brexit; £435,000 ar gyfer datblygu capasiti'r heddlu i ymateb i unrhyw argyfyngau sifil; £0.5 miliwn ar gyfer fforymau Cymru gydnerth lleol, a fydd yn cydlynu'r ymateb i argyfyngau sifil, wrth iddynt godi; a £0.5 miliwn i ehangu'r ddarpariaeth o wybodaeth a chymorth, gan gynnwys cyngor ar fewnfudo, i helpu dinasyddion yr Ardal Economaidd Ewropeaidd sy'n byw yng Nghymru. Mae'r rhain i gyd yn bethau na fyddai'n rhaid i ni eu gwneud oni bai am yr anhrefn y mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi'i greu.
Obviously, the Chancellor made £31 million available to you as a Welsh Government for 'no deal' planning. It's important to understand how that money is being used within Welsh Government, and, indeed, its partner bodies. Can you indicate how you've distributed that money, finance Minister, and, importantly, how much of that £31 million has gone outside of Welsh Government, to support health boards or local authorities, for example, which might have to make their own preparations around 'no deal' contingency?
Yn amlwg, rhyddhaodd y Canghellor £31 miliwn i chi fel Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer cynlluniau 'dim bargen'. Mae'n bwysig deall sut y caiff yr arian hwnnw ei ddefnyddio o fewn Llywodraeth Cymru, a’i chyrff partner yn wir. A allwch nodi sut y dosbarthwyd yr arian hwnnw gennych, Weinidog cyllid, ac yn bwysicach, faint o'r £31 miliwn hwnnw sydd wedi mynd y tu allan i Lywodraeth Cymru, i gefnogi byrddau iechyd neu awdurdodau lleol, er enghraifft, a allai orfod gwneud eu paratoadau eu hunain mewn perthynas â chynlluniau wrth gefn ar gyfer ‘dim bargen’?
Well, all of those items that I've just described have been funded through the EU transition fund, which was funded with the money you describe, alongside funding for training and upskilling the workforce in Wales's automotive and aerospace industries, and funding for Welsh universities to drive international partnerships and promote Wales as a study destination. I'd be more than happy to share again with Members the list of schemes that we've already funded through our EU transition fund.FootnoteLink
Wel, mae'r holl eitemau hynny a ddisgrifiais yn awr wedi’u hariannu drwy gronfa bontio'r UE, a ariannwyd gyda'r arian a ddisgrifiwch, ochr yn ochr â chyllid ar gyfer hyfforddi a gwella sgiliau gweithlu'r diwydiannau modurol ac awyrofod yng Nghymru, ac arian i brifysgolion Cymru i ysgogi partneriaethau rhyngwladol a hyrwyddo Cymru fel cyrchfan ar gyfer astudio. Buaswn yn fwy na hapus i rannu eto gyda'r Aelodau y rhestr o gynlluniau yr ydym eisoes wedi'u hariannu drwy gronfa bontio’r UE.FootnoteLink
2. Pa ystyriaeth a roddodd Llywodraeth Cymru i'r GIG wrth ddyrannu cyllid ar gyfer cyllideb derfynol 2019-20? OAQ53707
2. What consideration did the Welsh Government give to the NHS when allocating funding for the 2019-20 final budget? OAQ53707
We continue to prioritise funding for the NHS in Wales, and the 2019-20 budget approved by the Assembly in January provides £7.4 billion for core NHS funding, representing record levels of investment in the NHS in Wales.
Rydym yn parhau i flaenoriaethu cyllid ar gyfer y GIG yng Nghymru, ac mae cyllideb 2019-20 a gymeradwywyd gan y Cynulliad ym mis Ionawr yn darparu £7.4 biliwn ar gyfer cyllid craidd y GIG, sef y buddsoddiad mwyaf erioed yn y GIG yng Nghymru.
Diolch. In his response to Paul Davies yesterday, the First Minister said that,
'our GP community has to do more to match the expectations of patient populations'.
But it's now over seven years since the British Medical Association Cymru and the Royal College of General Practitioners launched campaigns aimed at Assembly Members, warning of a ticking time-bomb and that 90 per cent of patient contacts are with general practice, and yet funding as the share of the NHS cake had fallen. And they've continuously relaunched those campaigns since. It's almost five years since the North Wales Local Medical Committee came to the Assembly to say we had a crisis in north Wales, warning that several practices couldn't fill vacancies and that many GPs were seriously considering retirement because of the expanding workload. Only last week, the north Wales community health council wrote to the health Minister here in response to the Welsh Government consultation on the options paper, 'NHS Wales Performers List', saying that their members were disappointed and that the difficulties in north Wales have been present and increasing for at least five years and that there's no question about if or whether the difficulties in recruitment and retention will continue. In terms of allocating funds for GP services within the NHS budget, how would you therefore respond to the final sentence of their letter last week that the Welsh Government needs to demonstrate that it is working hard to develop a robust and inventive approach to this crisis that makes the most of the freedom to innovate that is afforded to NHS Wales?
Diolch. Yn ei ymateb i Paul Davies ddoe, dywedodd y Prif Weinidog,
'bod yn rhaid i'n cymuned meddygon teulu wneud mwy i fodloni disgwyliadau poblogaethau cleifion'.
Ond aeth dros saith mlynedd heibio bellach ers i Gymdeithas Feddygol Prydain Cymru a Choleg Brenhinol yr Ymarferwyr Cyffredinol lansio ymgyrchoedd wedi'u hanelu at Aelodau'r Cynulliad yn rhybuddio am y bom sy’n tician, a bod 90 y cant o gysylltiadau cleifion yn digwydd gyda meddygon teulu, ac eto mae’r cyllid fel cyfran o gacen y GIG wedi gostwng. Ac maent wedi ail-lansio'r ymgyrchoedd hynny’n gyson ers hynny. Mae bron i bum mlynedd ers i Bwyllgor Meddygol Lleol gogledd Cymru ddod i'r Cynulliad i ddweud ein bod yn wynebu argyfwng yng ngogledd Cymru, gan rybuddio na allai nifer o bractisau lenwi eu swyddi gwag a bod llawer o feddygon teulu o ddifrif yn ystyried ymddeol oherwydd y llwyth gwaith cynyddol. Yr wythnos diwethaf, ysgrifennodd cyngor iechyd cymuned gogledd Cymru at y Gweinidog iechyd yma mewn ymateb i ymgynghoriad Llywodraeth Cymru ar y papur opsiynau, 'Rhestr Perfformwyr GIG Cymru', gan ddweud bod eu haelodau'n siomedig a bod yr anawsterau yng ngogledd Cymru wedi bod yn bresennol ac yn cynyddu ers o leiaf bum mlynedd ac nid oes amheuaeth ynglŷn ag a fydd yr anawsterau i recriwtio a chadw staff yn parhau. O ran dyrannu arian i wasanaethau meddygon teulu o fewn cyllideb y GIG, sut y byddech yn ymateb felly i frawddeg olaf eu llythyr yr wythnos diwethaf fod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru ddangos ei bod yn gweithio'n galed i ddatblygu ymagwedd gadarn a dyfeisgar tuag at yr argyfwng hwn sy’n gwneud y gorau o'r rhyddid i arloesi a roddir i GIG Cymru?
You'll remember, of course, that the health Minister responded to many of those concerns, particularly regarding the GP service in Wales during his statement on 'Train. Work. Live.' yesterday afternoon. And, of course, the First Minister also made some comments on the same during the First Minister's questions session yesterday afternoon.
But in terms of our overall investment in the NHS, of course, core NHS funding with a total investment of £7.4 billion in 2019-20 represents the single largest budget within the Welsh Government and contains our core funding for the NHS Welsh health boards and trusts, and we're investing more than £0.5 billion extra on health and social care in 2019-20. This will be used to fund performance, NHS pay and prevention, including £192 million to take forward the implementation of our long-term plan for health and social care, 'A Healthier Wales'. And, of course, there is £14 million over two years, from 2018 to 2020, as part of our agreement with Plaid Cymru, which includes the commitment to establish medical education in north Wales. Alongside that, we have a serious programme of capital investment in the NHS, not least in north Wales. So, we're demonstrating very clearly that health remains a key priority for Welsh Government.
Fe gofiwch, wrth gwrs, fod y Gweinidog iechyd wedi ymateb i lawer o'r pryderon hynny, yn enwedig o ran y gwasanaeth meddygon teulu yng Nghymru yn ystod ei ddatganiad ar 'Hyfforddi Gweithio Byw' brynhawn ddoe. Ac wrth gwrs, gwnaeth y Prif Weinidog sylwadau ar yr un peth yn ystod sesiwn gwestiynau'r Prif Weinidog brynhawn ddoe.
Ond o ran ein buddsoddiad cyffredinol yn y GIG, wrth gwrs, cyllid craidd y GIG gyda chyfanswm buddsoddiad o £ 7.4 biliwn yn 2019-20 yw'r gyllideb unigol fwyaf o fewn Llywodraeth Cymru ac mae'n cynnwys ein harian craidd ar gyfer byrddau ac ymddiriedolaethau iechyd GIG Cymru ac rydym yn buddsoddi mwy na £0.5 biliwn yn ychwanegol ar iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn 2019-20. Bydd hwn yn cael ei ddefnyddio i ariannu perfformiad, cyflogau’r GIG ac atal, gan gynnwys £192 miliwn i fwrw ymlaen â gweithredu ein cynllun hirdymor ar gyfer iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, 'Cymru Iachach'. Ac wrth gwrs, ceir £14 miliwn dros ddwy flynedd, o 2018 i 2020, fel rhan o'n cytundeb gyda Phlaid Cymru, sy'n cynnwys eu hymrwymiad i sefydlu addysg feddygol yng ngogledd Cymru. Ochr yn ochr â hynny, mae gennym raglen fuddsoddi cyfalaf ddwys yn y GIG, yn enwedig yng ngogledd Cymru, felly rydym yn dangos yn glir iawn fod iechyd yn parhau i fod yn flaenoriaeth allweddol i Lywodraeth Cymru.
It is clear, of course, that effective co-operation between health and social care services can reduce the pressure on both health and care budgets. I'm very grateful to the Minister for agreeing to meet me yesterday to discuss the ways forward to potentially develop some consensus around innovative ways of funding care. Does the Minister agree with me that we will continue to face increased pressures on health budgets unless we can solve the issues of the interface between health and care? And does she also agree with me that there will need to be substantial investment in our care services if we are to create that parity of esteem between the two services that we agree across this Chamber, I think, is desirable?
Mae'n amlwg, wrth gwrs, y gall cydweithrediad effeithiol rhwng gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol leihau'r pwysau ar gyllidebau iechyd a gofal. Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i'r Gweinidog am gytuno i gyfarfod â mi ddoe i drafod y ffyrdd ymlaen i geisio datblygu rhywfaint o gonsensws ynghylch ffyrdd arloesol o ariannu gofal. A yw'r Gweinidog yn cytuno y byddwn yn parhau i wynebu pwysau cynyddol ar gyllidebau iechyd oni bai y gallwn ddatrys problemau'r rhyngwyneb rhwng iechyd a gofal? Ac a yw hi hefyd yn cytuno y bydd angen buddsoddi'n sylweddol yn ein gwasanaethau gofal os ydym am greu'r parch cydradd hwnnw rhwng y ddau wasanaeth y cytunwn ar draws y Siambr hon y byddai’n ddymunol?
Thank you very much for the question and thank you also for the very useful meeting that we had yesterday to discuss innovative ways in which we can fund social care in future, given the huge pressures that we know already exist in the system, but also the anticipated increasing pressures due to the ageing population that we have here in Wales and the escalating needs that some people will have in Wales as well.
So, one of those options that we discussed was the social care levy. It's one of the options that the inter-ministerial group is looking at in terms of how we prepare ourselves to meet that challenge. We're also looking at other innovative ways of funding. I'm really keen to take this piece of work forward on a cross-party basis because it is something that we will all be keen to work together on, I'm sure. We've had some good, I think, cross-party consensus in debates on that.
I'm really excited by the work of the integrated care fund, because that genuinely brings together health and social services. The transformation fund is also doing some good work in that area. So, it demonstrates really that if we are to achieve good outcomes for people, we need to ensure that we're not separating health and social care in our minds, but also giving the opportunity to bring those two things together through budgets and we do see health boards and local authorities working in a very different way alongside the third sector when we enable them to share those budgets.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am y cwestiwn a diolch i chi hefyd am y cyfarfod defnyddiol iawn a gawsom ddoe i drafod ffyrdd arloesol o ariannu gofal cymdeithasol yn y dyfodol, o gofio'r pwysau enfawr y gwyddom ei fod yn bodoli yn y system eisoes, ond hefyd y pwysau cynyddol a ragwelir oherwydd y boblogaeth sy'n heneiddio sydd gennym yma yng Nghymru a'r anghenion cynyddol a fydd gan rai pobl yng Nghymru hefyd.
Felly, un o'r opsiynau hynny a drafodwyd gennych oedd yr ardoll gofal cymdeithasol. Mae'n un o'r opsiynau y mae'r grŵp rhyngweinidogol yn edrych arno o ran sut yr ymbaratown ar gyfer ateb yr her honno. Rydym hefyd yn edrych ar ffyrdd arloesol eraill o ariannu. Rwy'n wirioneddol awyddus i symud y gwaith hwn yn ei flaen ar sail drawsbleidiol gan ei fod yn rhywbeth y byddwn i gyd yn awyddus i gydweithio arno, rwy'n siŵr. Rydym wedi cael consensws trawsbleidiol da, rwy'n credu, mewn dadleuon ar hynny.
Mae gwaith y gronfa gofal integredig yn gyffrous iawn, oherwydd daw honno ag iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol at ei gilydd go iawn. Mae'r gronfa drawsnewid hefyd yn gwneud gwaith da yn y maes hwnnw. Felly, mae'n dangos, os ydym am gyflawni canlyniadau da i bobl, fod angen i ni sicrhau nad ydym yn gwahanu iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn ein meddyliau, ond hefyd ein bod yn rhoi cyfle i ddod â'r ddau beth at ei gilydd drwy gyllidebau ac rydym yn gweld byrddau iechyd ac awdurdodau lleol yn gweithio mewn ffordd wahanol iawn ochr yn ochr â'r trydydd sector pan fyddwn yn eu galluogi i rannu'r cyllidebau hynny.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Nick Ramsay.
I call the party spokespeople to question the Minister. The Conservative spokesperson, Nick Ramsay.
Diolch, Llywydd. Finance Minister, the Federation of Small Businesses report on creating a new tax system in Wales has highlighted some concerning facts about the lack of awareness on devolved taxes. Perhaps most shockingly, their August 2018 survey found that 66 per cent of FSB members said that they were not aware of devolved taxes when questioned, with some stating that there'd been little or no information provided by the Welsh Government. Admittedly, that is a few months back. This seems to contradict an answer I received from the Welsh Revenue Authority yesterday, who'd estimated that they'd reached an audience of around 4.5 million through digital and social media campaigns. Can you update us on progress being made with raising the profile of devolved taxation in Wales? And who do you think is right—is it the WRA or is it the FSB?
Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog cyllid, mae adroddiad y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach ar greu system dreth newydd yng Nghymru wedi amlygu ffeithiau sy'n peri pryder ynghylch y diffyg ymwybyddiaeth o drethi datganoledig. Yn fwyaf syfrdanol o bosibl, canfu eu harolwg ym mis Awst 2018 fod 66 y cant o aelodau’r Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach yn dweud pan gawsant eu holi nad oeddent yn ymwybodol o drethi datganoledig, gyda rhai’n dweud na chawsant fawr ddim gwybodaeth gan Lywodraeth Cymru, os o gwbl. Rhaid cyfaddef mai rai misoedd yn ôl oedd hynny. Mae hyn i’w weld yn croes-ddweud ateb a gefais gan Awdurdod Cyllid Cymru ddoe, a oedd wedi amcangyfrif eu bod wedi cyrraedd cynulleidfa o 4.5 miliwn drwy ymgyrchoedd digidol a chyfryngau cymdeithasol. A allwch roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni am y cynnydd sy'n cael ei wneud i godi proffil trethi datganoledig yng Nghymru, a phwy ydych chi'n credu sy'n gywir? Awdurdod Cyllid Cymru neu'r Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach?
Thank you for raising this important issue, especially in what is a momentous week for tax in Wales. I was certainly pleased to receive the FSB's report, and I was pleased to invite them to give a presentation at the recent tax advisory group in terms of helping us understand from their perspective and the perspective of their members how they best can work alongside Welsh Government and the Welsh Revenue Authority. In terms of who's right, I think actually they're probably both right, in the sense that the FSB report came out in August, so that was before—or the research was done in August—a lot of the engagement and communication work was undertaken, and, actually, the FSB's research does reflect the kind of research that Welsh Government has done in terms of understanding the level of awareness and understanding that is out there in the Welsh public in terms of taxes. I think that that report does provide us with a really good baseline on which to work now, in terms of driving forward our communication work to help people understand Welsh taxes better. Also, we need to do some further work, I think, on local taxes. But certainly the Welsh Revenue Authority has been doing some absolutely excellent and intensive work in order to communicate.
Diolch i chi am godi'r mater pwysig hwn, yn enwedig yn ystod wythnos bwysig iawn i drethiant yng Nghymru. Roeddwn yn sicr yn falch o dderbyn adroddiad y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach, ac roeddwn yn falch o'u gwahodd i roi cyflwyniad yn y grŵp cynghori ar dreth i'n helpu i ddeall o'u safbwynt hwy a safbwynt eu haelodau sut y gallant weithio ochr yn ochr â Llywodraeth Cymru ac Awdurdod Cyllid Cymru yn y ffordd orau. O ran pwy sy'n gywir, rwy'n credu mewn gwirionedd eu bod ill dau’n gywir yn ôl pob tebyg yn yr ystyr fod adroddiad y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach wedi dod allan ym mis Awst, felly roedd hynny cyn—neu fe wnaed yr ymchwil ym mis Awst—cyn y gwnaed llawer o'r gwaith ymgysylltu a chyfathrebu, ac mewn gwirionedd mae ymchwil y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach yn adlewyrchu'r math o ymchwil y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i wneud o ran deall lefel yr ymwybyddiaeth a'r ddealltwriaeth sydd i’w weld ymhlith y cyhoedd yng Nghymru mewn perthynas â threthi. Credaf fod yr adroddiad hwnnw'n rhoi llinell sylfaen dda iawn i ni weithio arni yn awr, o ran ysgogi ein gwaith cyfathrebu i helpu pobl i ddeall trethi Cymru yn well. Hefyd, rwy'n credu bod angen inni wneud gwaith pellach ar drethi lleol. Ond yn sicr mae Awdurdod Cyllid Cymru wedi bod yn gwneud gwaith cwbl ardderchog a dwys er mwyn gallu cyfathrebu.
I resisted the temptation to say it was a momentous week in Welsh taxation because we tend to say that during every set of questions with all the changes that have been happening with devolved taxation over the last months and, indeed, the preparations over longer. When he was the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, the First Minister said that he was sceptical about the extent to which taxation issues had an effect on behaviour, and he said,
'I don't take the economic view of mankind that people are always calculating down to the last penny whether they want to be in one place or another'.
Yet, returning to the FSB's report, which I'm glad you've had sight of, that states that some solicitors dealing with land transaction tax are already saying that their clients are considering buying property close to the border to avoid paying higher property taxes in Wales. In fact, one of their key findings was that concerns continue to be expressed about the potential for the different rates between land transaction tax and UK stamp duty land tax, and the effect of that influencing taxpayer behaviour and the potential for distortion. I appreciate these are still early days and that it was only some solicitors who said that, but nonetheless there's clearly an area here that needs to be monitored by the Welsh Government. Do you think that we are doing enough to monitor potential distortions along the border area, and what preparations are you making to make sure that, going forward, the property market in Wales is stable?
Gwrthodais y demtasiwn i ddweud ei bod yn wythnos bwysig ar drethi yng Nghymru am ein bod yn tueddu i ddweud hynny yn ystod pob set o gwestiynau gyda'r holl newidiadau sydd wedi bod yn digwydd gyda threthi datganoledig dros y misoedd diwethaf ac yn wir y paratoadau dros gyfnod hwy na hynny. Pan oedd yn Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid, dywedodd y Prif Weinidog ei fod yn amheus i ba raddau yr oedd materion trethiant yn effeithio ar ymddygiad, a dywedodd,
Nid wyf yn arddel yr olwg economaidd ar y ddynoliaeth fod pobl bob amser yn cyfrifo i lawr i'r geiniog olaf p'un a ydynt am fod mewn un man neu mewn man arall.
Ac eto, gan ddychwelyd at adroddiad y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach, ac rwy’n falch eich bod wedi ei weld, mae'n dweud bod rhai cyfreithwyr sy'n ymdrin â’r dreth trafodiadau tir eisoes yn dweud bod eu cleientiaid yn ystyried prynu eiddo yn agos at y ffin er mwyn osgoi talu trethi eiddo uwch yng Nghymru. Mewn gwirionedd, un o'u canfyddiadau allweddol oedd bod pryderon yn parhau i gael eu mynegi ynglŷn â’r posibilrwydd o gyfraddau gwahanol rhwng y dreth trafodiadau tir a threth dir treth stamp y DU, ac effaith hynny’n dylanwadu ar ymddygiad trethdalwyr a'r posibilrwydd o gamystumio. Felly, rwy'n deall bod y rhain yn ddyddiau cynnar o hyd, a dim ond rhai cyfreithwyr a ddywedodd hynny, ond serch hynny, mae'n amlwg fod yna faes yma y mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru ei fonitro. A ydych yn credu ein bod yn gwneud digon i fonitro camystumio posibl ar hyd ardal y ffin, a pha baratoadau yr ydych yn eu gwneud i sicrhau, wrth symud ymlaen, fod y farchnad eiddo yng Nghymru yn sefydlog?
I realise your primary concern here relates to non-residential land transaction tax, and, of course, we have a lower starting rate of tax for the purchase of business premises here in Wales than under stamp duty land tax, and this means that all businesses purchasing premises up to £1.1 million in Wales either pay no tax at all or they pay less than they would under stamp duty land tax. This really does benefit small and medium-sized businesses across the country.
In the first year of land transaction tax it's estimated that around nine out of 10 transactions would pay either no LTT or the amount would be less than it would have been under SDLT for non-residential transactions. So, I think that actions that we've taken certainly are beneficial to small and medium-sized enterprises. I do understand the concern over the additional 1 per cent that there is for the higher rate. However, I think that it is far too early in the day to make a conclusion as to what, if any, impact that had on behaviour, and it's also worth bearing in mind that the year before LTT came in was an exceptional year in terms of tax take or in terms of transactions on those higher properties. So, I think that it's something that we are watching closely. We'll have the outturn figures in June of this year, so we'll have a better understanding of at least the first year's behaviour.
Rwy'n sylweddoli bod eich prif bryder yma yn ymwneud â threth trafodiadau tir amhreswyl, ac wrth gwrs mae gennym gyfradd dreth ddechreuol is ar gyfer prynu eiddo busnes yma yng Nghymru nag o dan dreth dir y dreth stamp, ac mae hyn yn golygu bod pob busnes sy’n prynu eiddo hyd at £1.1 miliwn yng Nghymru naill ai'n osgoi talu unrhyw dreth o gwbl neu'n talu llai nag y byddent o dan dreth dir y dreth stamp. Mae hyn o fudd mawr i fusnesau bach a chanolig ledled y wlad.
Yn ystod blwyddyn gyntaf y dreth trafodiadau tir, amcangyfrifir y byddai tua naw o bob 10 trafodiad yn osgoi talu’r dreth trafodiadau tir neu byddai'r swm yn llai nag y byddai wedi bod o dan dreth dir y dreth stamp ar gyfer trafodiadau amhreswyl. Felly, rwy'n credu bod y camau a gymerwyd gennym yn sicr o fudd i fusnesau bach a chanolig. Rwy'n deall y pryder ynglŷn â’r 1 y cant ychwanegol ar y gyfradd uwch. Fodd bynnag, credaf ei bod yn llawer rhy gynnar i ddod i gasgliad ynghylch yr effaith a gafodd hynny ar ymddygiad, os o gwbl, ac mae'n werth cofio hefyd fod y flwyddyn cyn i'r dreth trafodiadau tir ddod yn weithredol yn flwyddyn eithriadol o ran derbyniadau treth neu o ran trafodiadau ar yr eiddo gwerth uwch. Felly rwy'n meddwl ei fod yn rhywbeth yr ydym yn ei wylio'n agos. Byddwn yn cael y ffigurau alldro ym mis Mehefin eleni, felly bydd gennym well dealltwriaeth o ymddygiad y flwyddyn gyntaf o leiaf.
My colleague on the Finance Committee, Mike Hedges, is always keen to point out the cyclical nature of LTT and property transactions, and what you've just said about it being early days and having had exceptional years is certainly something that we've looked at on the Finance Committee.
I welcome what you said, that people buying properties at the lower end should have less of a tax burden. I think we would all agree with that, not just on the issue of taxation, but income tax as well, with the UK Government taking more people out of the tax bracket in terms of the allowance at the lower end. That's to be welcomed. However, going back to the FSB report and LTT, the most recent figures are also starting to sound warning bells about raising the tax thresholds for properties at the higher end, over £1 million, to what are some of the highest levels in the UK.
Although we are yet to see the full year's collection for land transaction tax, CoStar's UK commercial property investment review for quarter 3 in 2018 shows that Wales is one of the weakest UK regions for property investment—down 70 per cent, or £54 million against a five-year quarterly average. Now, whilst I accept that taxation might not be the be-all and end-all in terms of what's causing that, will you undertake to keep this situation under very close review? And if you are receiving warning signs from CoStar and other organisations that the statistics are pointing to the Welsh Government's taxation policy in this area being detrimental to the economy, will you change course pretty speedily and make sure that we are not discouraging investment by taxing those at the higher end too much?
Mae fy nghydweithiwr ar y Pwyllgor Cyllid, Mike Hedges, bob amser yn awyddus i nodi natur gylchol y dreth trafodiadau tir a thrafodiadau eiddo, ac yn sicr mae'r hyn rydych newydd ei ddweud ynglŷn â’i bod yn ddyddiau cynnar a’r blynyddoedd eithriadol a gafwyd yn rhywbeth yr edrychasom arno ar y Pwyllgor Cyllid.
Rwy'n croesawu'r hyn a ddywedasoch, y dylai pobl sy'n prynu eiddo ar y pen isaf ysgwyddo llai o faich treth. Credaf y byddem i gyd yn cytuno â hynny, nid yn unig o ran trethiant, ond o ran y dreth incwm hefyd, gyda Llywodraeth y DU yn tynnu mwy o bobl allan o'r dosbarth treth o ran y lwfans ar y pen isaf. Mae hynny i'w groesawu. Fodd bynnag, gan droi’n ôl at adroddiad y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach a'r dreth trafodiadau tir, mae'r ffigurau diweddaraf hefyd yn dechrau canu larymau ynghylch codi'r trothwyon treth ar gyfer eiddo ar y pen uchaf, dros £1 miliwn, i'r hyn sydd ymhlith y lefelau uchaf yn y DU.
Er nad ydym eto wedi gweld casgliad y flwyddyn lawn ar gyfer y dreth trafodiadau tir, mae adolygiad eiddo masnachol CoStar yn y DU ar gyfer chwarter 3 yn 2018 yn dangos mai Cymru yw un o'r rhanbarthau gwannaf yn y DU ar gyfer buddsoddi mewn eiddo—i lawr 70 y cant, neu £54 miliwn yn erbyn cyfartaledd chwarterol pum mlynedd. Nawr, er fy mod yn derbyn efallai nad trethiant yn unig sy'n achosi hynny, a wnewch chi ymrwymo i adolygu'r sefyllfa hon yn agos iawn? Ac os ydych yn cael rhybuddion gan CoStar a sefydliadau eraill, fod yr ystadegau'n awgrymu bod polisi trethiant Llywodraeth Cymru yn y maes hwn yn niweidiol i'r economi, a wnewch chi newid y trywydd yn gyflym a sicrhau nad ydym yn annog pobl i beidio â buddsoddi drwy drethu'r rhai ar y pen uchaf yn ormodol?
Thank you, and I can confirm that officials are in regular contact with property industry experts, and that engagement is ongoing. We'll certainly be monitoring any perceivable impact that the differential rate that we have here, in terms of the higher rate of LTT, might have on those high-value transactions. As I say, we're just a year in, so we don't actually have a full picture yet, but it is absolutely something that I am keeping a keen eye on.
Diolch, a gallaf gadarnhau bod swyddogion yn cysylltu'n rheolaidd ag arbenigwyr yn y diwydiant eiddo, ac mae'r ymgysylltiad hwnnw'n parhau. Byddwn yn sicr yn monitro unrhyw effaith ganfyddadwy y gallai'r gyfradd wahaniaethol sydd gennym yma o ran y gyfradd uwch o dreth trafodiadau tir, ei chael ar y trafodiadau gwerth uchel hynny. Fel y dywedaf, blwyddyn yn unig sydd wedi bod, felly nid oes gennym ddarlun llawn eto, ond mae'n sicr yn rhywbeth rwy'n cadw llygad arno.
Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Diolch, Llywydd. Mae'r byd yn newid, mae'r economi yn newid efo fo, ac un newid ydy bod yr economi wybodaeth yn dod yn fwy a mwy pwysig, ac yn hynny o beth mae gwariant ar ymchwil a datblygu yn mynd i fod yn dod yn bwysicach. Dyna sut i greu syniadau newydd a dyfeisiau newydd fydd yn sail i genhedlaeth newydd o fusnesau. All y Gweinidog roi diweddariad i ni ar wariant R&D o fewn cyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru?
Thank you, Llywydd. The world is changing, the economy is changing with it, and one change is that the information economy is becoming more and more important, and in that regard expenditure on research and development will become more and more important. That’s how you generate new ideas and new devices that will be the basis for a new generation of businesses. So, can the Minister give an update on expenditure on R&D within the Welsh Government’s budget?
Certainly. I will seek to provide you with some concrete figures as to our expenditure on R&D,FootnoteLink but one of the concerns that we have had in recent times is, of course, the impact of leaving the European Union on our capacity in R&D. We've been looking very closely at the Reid report in order to ensure that we do have the maximum profile, if you like, in terms of ensuring that Wales is seen as a great destination for R&D, an environment where Welsh Government is supportive, but also an environment where academics are enabled to thrive in an environment that very much promotes the work that they do.
Yn sicr. Byddaf yn ceisio darparu ffigurau pendant i chi ynglŷn â'n gwariant ar ymchwil a datblygu,FootnoteLink ond un o'r pryderon a fu gennym yn y cyfnod diweddar, wrth gwrs, yw effaith gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd ar ein capasiti ymchwil a datblygu. Rydym wedi bod yn edrych yn agos iawn ar adroddiad Reid er mwyn sicrhau bod y proffil gorau gennym, os mynnwch, i sicrhau bod Cymru yn cael ei gweld fel cyrchfan gwych ar gyfer ymchwil a datblygu, amgylchedd lle mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gefnogol, ond amgylchedd hefyd lle mae academyddion yn cael eu galluogi i ffynnu mewn amgylchedd sy'n hybu'r gwaith a wnânt yn bendant iawn.
I'm grateful for that response, and I certainly also share the concern about the effects of leaving the European Union on future R&D funding in Wales. R&D funding comes from many different sources, of course, and business is by far the biggest source of funding, but let me look at higher education. Recent figures show UK higher education R&D spend in total of around £6.5 billion. Break that down and we see spend per person in Wales to be £86. In London and the home counties of England, it's £275 per head—almost 60 per cent of the total R&D spend in higher education is spent in the south-east of England. Universities themselves, of course, draw in that R&D funding themselves, but it would be wrong to suggest that Welsh Government couldn't be influential in seeing how much more money we could draw into Wales. Much of the current UK pool of R&D funding is drawn into what's known as the 'golden triangle', between Oxford and Cambridge and the London universities, and because of their track record in R&D they're able to beat off much of the competition and claim a lion's share of funding. But does the Minister agree with me that it's time now that Welsh Government really started to make the case for creating a Welsh pool—a protected Welsh pool—of R&D funding, into which our universities could apply for funding in order to increase expenditure in this sector in Wales?
Diolch am yr ymateb hwnnw, ac rwyf innau hefyd yn sicr yn rhannu'r pryder am effeithiau gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd ar ddyfodol cyllid ymchwil a datblygu yng Nghymru. Daw arian ymchwil a datblygu o lawer o ffynonellau gwahanol, wrth gwrs, a busnes yw'r ffynhonnell fwyaf o arian o bell ffordd, ond gadewch imi edrych ar addysg uwch. Dengys ffigurau diweddar fod cyfanswm yr arian a werir ar ymchwil a datblygu addysg uwch yn y DU oddeutu £6.5 biliwn. O'i ddadansoddi, gwelwn fod gwariant y pen yng Nghymru yn £86. Yn Llundain a'r siroedd cartref yn Lloegr, mae'n £275 y pen—gwerir bron 60 y cant o gyfanswm y gwariant ymchwil a datblygu mewn addysg uwch yn ne-ddwyrain Lloegr. Mae prifysgolion eu hunain, wrth gwrs, yn denu'r cyllid ymchwil a datblygu hwnnw eu hunain, ond byddai'n anghywir awgrymu na allai Llywodraeth Cymru fod yn ddylanwadol o ran gweld faint yn fwy o arian y gallem ei ddenu i mewn i Gymru. Mae llawer o gronfa bresennol y DU o gyllid ymchwil a datblygu yn mynd i mewn i'r hyn a elwir yn 'driongl euraidd', rhwng Rhydychen a Chaergrawnt a phrifysgolion Llundain, ac oherwydd eu hanes ym maes ymchwil a datblygu maent yn gallu curo llawer o'r gystadleuaeth a hawlio cyfran fawr o'r arian. Ond a yw'r Gweinidog yn cytuno â mi ei bod yn bryd bellach i Lywodraeth Cymru ddechrau dadlau'r achos o ddifrif dros greu cronfa Cymru—cronfa warchodedig i Gymru—o gyllid ymchwil a datblygu, y gallai ein prifysgolion wneud cais am gyllid ohoni er mwyn cynyddu'r gwariant yn y sector hwn yng Nghymru?
Well, you clearly raise an extremely important point. Around £0.75 billion was spent on R&D in Wales in 2017—that's the latest year for which we have figures—and that's an increase of 4.6 per cent compared to the previous year. That effectively now matches the increase in R&D spending across the UK.
We've accepted the first recommendation of the Reid review, which is to strengthen our position in London through the office that we have there, and that's something that is currently being undertaken. We've both referred to the EU structural funds programme period. During that, we've invested £340 million, and that represents 20 per cent of all EU structural funds allocated to Wales and it continues to play a vital role in growing the Welsh economy and growing Welsh expertise.
So, certainly, I would be keen to explore what we would do were the UK Government to come through on its guarantee for EU funding. Clearly, there are discussions ongoing there that are causing some concern, not least about the exchange rate to which the UK Government intends to pass on funding to us. There will be discussions, I think, for me to have alongside my colleague—
Wel, yn amlwg rydych yn codi pwynt hynod bwysig. Gwariwyd tua £0.75 biliwn ar ymchwil a datblygu yng Nghymru yn 2017—dyna'r flwyddyn ddiweddaraf y mae gennym ffigurau ar ei chyfer—ac mae hynny'n gynnydd o 4.6 y cant o'i gymharu â'r flwyddyn flaenorol. Mae hynny bellach, i bob pwrpas, yn cyfateb i'r cynnydd mewn gwariant ymchwil a datblygu ar draws y DU.
Rydych wedi derbyn yr argymhelliad cyntaf yn adolygiad Reid, sef atgyfnerthu ein sefyllfa yn Llundain drwy'r swyddfa sydd gennym yno, ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth sy'n cael ei wneud ar hyn o bryd. Rydym ein dau wedi cyfeirio at gyfnod rhaglen cronfeydd strwythurol yr EU. Yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw, rydym wedi buddsoddi £340 miliwn, sef 20 y cant o holl gronfeydd strwythurol yr UE a ddyrannwyd i Gymru ac mae'n parhau i chwarae rhan hanfodol yn tyfu economi Cymru ac yn tyfu arbenigedd Cymru.
Felly, yn sicr, buaswn yn awyddus i archwilio beth y byddem yn ei wneud pe bai Llywodraeth y DU yn gwireddu ei gwarant ar gyfer arian yr UE. Yn amlwg, ceir trafodaethau parhaus yno sy'n achosi peth pryder, yn enwedig ynglŷn â'r gyfradd gyfnewid y bwriada Llywodraeth y DU drosglwyddo'r arian i ni arni. Byddaf yn cael trafodaethau, rwy'n meddwl, ochr yn ochr â fy nghyd-Aelod—
Referring back to your first words, I admire your positivity in saying that the increase in R&D spending in Wales is matching the increase in other parts of the UK. Let me try to illustrate it. Wales has increased that much from that point, whereas the rest of the UK has increased that much from a point up there. We need to be aiming for parity with other parts of the UK. Let's look elsewhere. Let's look at direct Government R&D spend in Wales. In 2016, of the £2.2 billion spent on research and development by UK Government, £54 per person was spent in London and the home counties, just £5 per person was spent in Wales. And you, as finance Minister, aren't jumping up and down about this every single day. Isn't this just a further example, yes, of the Conservative Government at a UK level not investing in Wales, as we believe on these benches that they should, but also your Government consistently again failing to make the case for Wales's share of R&D funding? And that's to the detriment of Wales and to jobs in Wales.
Gan gyfeirio'n ôl at eich geiriau cyntaf, rwy'n edmygu eich agwedd gadarnhaol yn dweud bod y cynnydd mewn gwariant ar ymchwil a datblygu yng Nghymru yn cyd-fynd â'r cynnydd mewn rhannau eraill o'r DU. Gadewch imi geisio ei ddarlunio. Mae Cymru wedi cynyddu cymaint â hynny o'r pwynt hwnnw, ond mae gweddill y DU wedi cynyddu cymaint â hynny o bwynt i fyny yno. Mae angen inni anelu at gydraddoldeb â rhannau eraill o'r DU. Gadewch i ni edrych ar fannau eraill. Gadewch i ni edrych ar wariant uniongyrchol y Llywodraeth ar ymchwil a datblygu yng Nghymru. Yn 2016, o'r £2.2 biliwn a wariwyd ar ymchwil a datblygu gan Lywodraeth y DU, gwariwyd £54 y pen yn Llundain a'r siroedd cartref, a dim ond £5 y pen a wariwyd yng Nghymru. Ac fel Gweinidog cyllid, nid ydych yn neidio i fyny ac i lawr ynglŷn â hyn bob dydd. Onid yw'n enghraifft arall o'r Llywodraeth Geidwadol ar lefel y DU yn peidio â buddsoddi yng Nghymru, fel y credwn ni ar y meinciau hyn y dylent ei wneud, ond hefyd eich Llywodraeth chi yn gyson eto yn methu dadlau'r achos dros gyfran Cymru o arian ymchwil a datblygu? Ac mae hynny'n niweidiol i Gymru ac i swyddi yng Nghymru.
Obviously, I would disagree. I'm always interested that whenever you seek to make a comparison it's always with London and the home counties, which isn't necessarily a well-recognised comparison with Wales. Spending on R&D is low in Wales, as it is across the UK in Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development terms. It's a challenge that we are facing right across the UK. The level of R&D funding in any relatively small economy, such as Wales, is influenced greatly by a small number of major projects commencing or ending, and that means that any one year's results should be interpreted cautiously.
Yn amlwg, rwy'n anghytuno. Mae'n ddiddorol bob amser, pryd bynnag y ceisiwch wneud cymhariaeth, rydych yn cymharu bob amser â Llundain a'r siroedd cartref, nad yw o reidrwydd yn gymhariaeth gydnabyddedig â Chymru. Mae gwariant ar ymchwil a datblygu yn isel yng Nghymru, fel y mae ledled y DU o safbwynt y Sefydliad ar gyfer Cydweithrediad a Datblygiad Economaidd. Mae'n her sy'n ein hwynebu ar draws y DU. Mae lefel y cyllid ymchwil a datblygu mewn unrhyw economi gymharol fach, megis Cymru, wedi'i dylanwadu'n fawr gan nifer fach o brosiectau mawr sy'n dechrau neu sy'n dod i ben, ac mae hynny'n golygu y dylid dehongli canlyniadau unrhyw un flwyddyn yn ochelgar.
Llefarydd UKIP, David Rowlands.
UKIP spokesperson, David Rowlands.
Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, I'd like to raise the subject of public procurement. Post Brexit we should be able to re-examine the rules governing public procurement, and this should make it easier for the public sector in Wales to award contracts to small companies and SMEs. However, even discarding Brexit, there are opportunities for the public sector to make it easier for small firms to bid for contracts. For instance, if we should look at the health sector, the problem here is that local firms can't realistically bid for many contracts, for instance to supply food to a particular hospital, because these contracts tend to be awarded by an NHS health board to provide food across the whole of the health board's estate, which of course means most of these contracts end up going to only the larger firms, some of which are not necessarily Welsh. Has the Welsh Government considered how this situation might be changed, for instance by NHS boards breaking up the provision of food into smaller contracts?
Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, hoffwn godi pwnc caffael cyhoeddus. Ar ôl Brexit dylem allu ailedrych ar y rheolau sy'n llywodraethu caffael cyhoeddus, a dylai hyn ei gwneud yn haws i'r sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru ddyfarnu contractau i gwmnïau bach a busnesau bach a chanolig. Fodd bynnag, hyd yn oed heb ystyried Brexit, mae yna gyfleoedd i'r sector cyhoeddus ei gwneud yn haws i gwmnïau bach wneud cais am gontractau. Er enghraifft, os edrychwn ar y sector iechyd, y broblem yma yw na all cwmnïau lleol gynnig yn realistig am lawer o gontractau, er enghraifft i gyflenwi bwyd i ysbyty penodol, oherwydd mae'r contractau hyn yn tueddu i gael eu dyfarnu gan fwrdd iechyd GIG i ddarparu bwyd ar draws ystâd gyfan y bwrdd iechyd, sy'n golygu wrth gwrs fod y rhan fwyaf o'r contractau hyn yn mynd i gwmnïau mwy o faint yn unig yn y pen draw, ac efallai na fydd rhai ohonynt o reidrwydd yn gwmnïau o Gymru. A yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ystyried sut y gellid newid y sefyllfa hon, er enghraifft drwy fod byrddau GIG yn rhannu'r ddarpariaeth fwyd yn gontractau llai o faint?
Thank you for raising the important issue of procurement. Of course, our strategy is having a positive impact on the economy in Wales and on businesses in Wales, with Wales-based suppliers now winning over half of the annual £6.2 billion procurement expenditure. However, I am very much ambitious to do more, and I'm ambitious for our SMEs to be able to play their full part in that. We're certainly using our policies to lower the barriers to small businesses and to enable them to secure places in supply chains in Wales. The outcomes that we are achieving far exceed the targets that the UK Government is working towards for engaging with SMEs. So, such policies include community benefits, the supplier qualification information database, project bank accounts, the code of practice for ethical employment and our joint bidding guidance. And we're continuing to open up opportunities for smaller firms, and our encouragement for public bodies to advertise all contracts below £25,000 on Sell2Wales is driving some really positive change.
Diolch i chi am godi mater pwysig caffael. Wrth gwrs, mae ein strategaeth yn cael effaith gadarnhaol ar yr economi yng Nghymru ac ar fusnesau yng Nghymru, gyda chyflenwyr o Gymru bellach yn ennill dros hanner y gwariant caffael blynyddol o £6.2 biliwn. Fodd bynnag, rwy'n awyddus iawn i wneud mwy, a fy uchelgais yw gweld ein busnesau bach a chanolig yn gallu chwarae rhan lawn yn hynny. Yn sicr rydym yn defnyddio ein polisïau i ostwng y rhwystrau i fusnesau bach a'u galluogi i sicrhau lleoedd yn y cadwyni cyflenwi yng Nghymru. Mae'r canlyniadau yr ydym yn eu cyflawni yn rhagori cryn dipyn ar y targedau y mae Llywodraeth y DU yn gweithio tuag atynt ar gyfer ymgysylltu â busnesau bach a chanolig. Felly, mae polisïau o'r fath yn cynnwys buddion cymunedol, cronfa ddata gwybodaeth am gymwysterau cyflenwyr, cyfrifon banc prosiectau, y cod ymarfer ar gyflogaeth foesegol a'n canllawiau ymgeisio ar y cyd. Ac rydym yn parhau i gynnig cyfleoedd i gwmnïau llai o faint, ac mae ein hanogaeth i gyrff cyhoeddus hysbysebu pob contract sy'n werth llai na £25,000 ar GwerthwchiGymru yn ysgogi newidiadau gwirioneddol gadarnhaol.
We do, on these benches, acknowledge the fact that the National Procurement Service is making a difference, but we also know that the Welsh Government will need to change its approach after Brexit, and this was recognised by the First Minister, who stated in the Chamber recently that the Welsh Government would, after Brexit, look at using procurement on a more local or regional level. And we also know that a template for public procurement policy was drawn up when Jane Hutt was finance Minister and it covered the construction industry in Wales. Has the Government made any analysis of how well this policy has worked in the construction sector?
Ar y meinciau hyn, rydym yn cydnabod y ffaith bod y Gwasanaeth Caffael Cenedlaethol yn gwneud gwahaniaeth, ond rydym hefyd yn gwybod y bydd angen i Lywodraeth Cymru newid ei dull o weithredu ar ôl Brexit, a chafodd hyn ei gydnabod gan y Prif Weinidog, a ddywedodd yn y Siambr yn ddiweddar y byddai Llywodraeth Cymru, ar ôl Brexit, yn edrych ar ddefnyddio caffael ar lefel fwy lleol neu ranbarthol. Ac rydym hefyd yn gwybod bod templed ar gyfer polisi caffael cyhoeddus wedi'i lunio pan oedd Jane Hutt yn Weinidog cyllid ac roedd yn cynnwys y diwydiant adeiladu yng Nghymru. A yw'r Llywodraeth wedi gwneud unrhyw ddadansoddiad o ba mor dda y mae'r polisi hwn wedi gweithio yn y sector adeiladu?
Certainly, we're working to ensure that small and medium-sized enterprises are able to bid into contracts in the construction sector, and that's one of our key target sectors, actually, in terms of our approach to procurement. Of course, we had the review of the National Procurement Service and Value Wales, and we're currently working together with stakeholders to transition those teams to a new service with a reduced portfolio of national contracts, but with very much a stronger focus on the development and delivery of procurement policy on that local and regional basis, which I think would provide smaller construction companies with a much greater opportunity to engage with the contracts that are available.
Yn sicr, rydym yn gweithio i sicrhau bod mentrau bach a chanolig yn gallu gwneud cais am gontractau yn y sector adeiladu, a dyna un o'n sectorau targed allweddol, mewn gwirionedd, o ran ein dull o weithredu caffael. Wrth gwrs, cawsom yr adolygiad o'r Gwasanaeth Caffael Cenedlaethol a Gwerth Cymru, ac rydym ar hyn o bryd yn gweithio gyda rhanddeiliaid i sicrhau bod y timau hynny'n pontio i wasanaeth newydd gyda phortffolio llai o gontractau cenedlaethol, ond gyda ffocws llawer cryfach ar ddatblygu a chyflawni polisi caffael ar sail leol a rhanbarthol o'r fath, a chredaf y byddai hynny'n rhoi llawer mwy o gyfle i gwmnïau adeiladu llai o faint ddod i gysylltiad â'r contractau sydd ar gael.
Of course I thank, again, the Minister for her answer, but one of the obstacles to tendering for contracts is, of course, the tendering process itself, which involves completing lots of complex forms, and then the process takes up lots of resources, which will often be beyond the capability of small or medium-sized companies. So, to sum up, Minister, I really do think this is an area that the Welsh Government needs to take very seriously, as it can have a very substantial impact on the foundational economy. If contracts are awarded to local companies, the money generated tends to remain in the local community, and this is not necessarily the case when contracts are awarded to very large firms, particularly if they are headquartered outside Wales.
Diolch eto i'r Gweinidog am ei hateb wrth gwrs, ond un o'r rhwystrau wrth dendro am gontractau yw'r broses dendro ei hun, wrth gwrs, sy'n galw am lenwi llawer o ffurflenni cymhleth, ac mae'r broses yn defnyddio llawer o adnoddau, rhywbeth a fydd yn aml y tu hwnt i allu cwmnïau bach neu ganolig eu maint. Felly, i grynhoi, Weinidog, rwy'n credu o ddifrif fod hwn yn faes y mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru fod o ddifrif yn ei gylch, gan y gall effeithio'n sylweddol iawn ar yr economi sylfaenol. Os dyfernir contractau i gwmnïau lleol, mae'r arian a gynhyrchir yn tueddu i aros yn y gymuned leol, ac nid yw hyn yn wir o reidrwydd pan ddyfernir contractau i gwmnïau mawr iawn, yn enwedig os nad yw eu pencadlys yng Nghymru.
We recognise that small companies can often struggle to bid for large contracts, and that's why I'm really pleased that, as of March, 31 per cent of contracts that were published on Sell2Wales this year were advertised as being suitable for joint bidding, and I think that's a really important way of supporting small local companies to bid into those contracts. And we are seeing some of those positive impacts in the construction sector, where 78 per cent of contracts or frameworks over £750,000 advertised via Sell2Wales have been awarded to Welsh contractors this year.
Rydym yn cydnabod bod cwmnïau bach yn aml yn cael trafferth i wneud cais am gontractau mawr, a dyna pam rwy'n falch iawn fod 31 y cant o'r contractau a gyhoeddwyd ar GwerthwchiGymru hyd at fis Mawrth eleni wedi'u hysbysebu fel rhai addas ar gyfer gwneud ceisiadau ar y cyd, ac rwy'n credu bod honno'n ffordd bwysig iawn o gynorthwyo cwmnïau bach lleol i wneud cais am y contractau hynny. Ac rydym yn gweld rhai o'r effeithiau cadarnhaol hynny yn y sector adeiladu, lle dyfarnwyd 78 y cant o'r contractau neu'r fframweithiau dros £750,000 a hysbysebwyd drwy GwerthwchiGymru i gontractwyr o Gymru eleni.
3. Beth yw polisi Llywodraeth Cymru parthed dad-fuddsoddi o gwmnïau tanwydd ffosil? OAQ53730
3. What is the Welsh Government's policy regarding disinvesting from fossil fuel companies? OAQ53730
The reduction of carbon emissions is a priority for the Welsh Government. A fortnight ago we published 'Prosperity for All: A Low Carbon Wales', our cross-Government plan to cut emissions and contribute to the global fight against climate change.
Mae lleihau allyriadau carbon yn flaenoriaeth i Lywodraeth Cymru. Bythefnos yn ôl, cyhoeddasom ' Ffyniant i Bawb: Cymru Carbon Isel', ein cynllun trawslywodraethol i dorri allyriadau a chyfrannu at y frwydr fyd-eang yn erbyn newid hinsawdd.
Dŷch chi ddim wedi dweud dim byd am ddad-fuddsoddi o gwmnïau tanwydd ffosil, hyd y gwelaf i. Ac, wrth gwrs, rŷn ni ar ei hôl hi fan hyn yng Nghymru yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, oherwydd mae Llywodraeth Gweriniaeth Iwerddon wedi penderfynu mai nhw fydd y wlad gyntaf yn y byd i ddad-fuddsoddi a gwerthu eu holl fuddsoddiadau mewn cwmnïau tanwydd ffosil ar ôl i Fil gael ei basio yn ddiweddar gyda chefnogaeth pob plaid yn fanna. Dwi'n siŵr na fyddem ni'n bell o gyflawni hynny yn y Senedd yma hefyd, petai'r Llywodraeth yn dewis dilyn y llwybr hwnnw. Mi fydd, er enghraifft, yng Ngweriniaeth Iwerddon, eu cronfa buddsoddi genedlaethol nhw, sydd gwerth £8 biliwn, yn dad-fuddsoddi o lo, o nwy, o olew ac o fawn cyn gynted ag sy'n ymarferol bosib, wrth gwrs, ond mae disgwyl i hynny ddigwydd mewn dim mwy na phum mlynedd. Felly, a wnewch chi ymrwymo i Gymru i efelychu hynny er mwyn dangos yn glir yr ymrwymiad gwirioneddol sydd gennym ni o safbwynt newid hinsawdd yn y wlad yma?
You’ve not said anything about disinvesting in fossil fuel companies, as far as I can see. We are falling behind in Wales in this context because the Government in the Republic of Ireland has decided that they will be the first nation in the world to disinvest and to sell all of their investments in fossil fuel companies after a Bill was passed recently, with the support of all parties there. I'm sure we wouldn't be a long way off achieving that in this Senedd too, if the Government chose to follow that particular path. For example, in the Republic of Ireland, their national investment fund, worth £8 billion, will be disinvesting in coal, gas, oil and peat as soon as practically possible, and that’s expected to happen over no more than five years. So, will you commit for Wales to emulate that to clearly demonstrate the real commitment that we have in terms of climate change in this nation?
I'll certainly commit to exploring that with colleagues and to looking very closely at what the Republic of Ireland have achieved, and then I will write to you following that.
Byddaf yn sicr o ymrwymo i ymchwilio i hynny gyda chydweithwyr ac i edrych yn ofalus iawn ar yr hyn y mae Gweriniaeth Iwerddon wedi'i gyflawni, ac yna byddaf yn ysgrifennu atoch yn dilyn hynny.
Minister, we know that local government pension schemes have invested in a huge range of companies, including fossil fuel companies as well. We know the sort of pressures that local government pension schemes are under and look like they will continue to be under, so it's not just a question of what the Welsh Government is going to invest or disinvest in. What advice are you giving to local authorities in terms of their pension schemes, to make sure that you get that balance right between discouraging a fossil fuel economy over the decades to come, but also making sure that those local authorities aren't put at more of a financial disadvantage than they might otherwise be?
Weinidog, rydym yn gwybod bod cynlluniau pensiwn llywodraeth leol wedi buddsoddi mewn amrywiaeth enfawr o gwmnïau, gan gynnwys cwmnïau tanwydd ffosil yn ogystal. Rydym yn gwybod am y math o bwysau sydd ar gynlluniau pensiwn llywodraeth leol ac mae'n edrych yn debyg y byddant yn parhau i fod o dan bwysau o'r fath, felly mae'n ymwneud â mwy na'r hyn y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn mynd i fuddsoddi ynddo neu ddadfuddsoddi ynddo. Pa gyngor a roddwch i awdurdodau lleol mewn perthynas â'u cynlluniau pensiwn, i wneud yn siŵr eich bod yn cael y cydbwysedd cywir rhwng annog rhag economi tanwydd ffosil dros y degawdau i ddod, ond hefyd er mwyn sicrhau nad yw'r awdurdodau lleol hynny'n cael eu rhoi dan fwy o anfantais ariannol nag y byddent fel arall o bosibl?
In 2018 Monmouthshire County Council voted to request that the greater Gwent fund, which handles the pensions for Monmouthshire, Torfaen, Blaenau Gwent, Caerphilly and Newport councils, make an ordered withdrawal from fossil fuel-based companies. The fund at the time was estimated to hold £245 million of investment in fossil fuel-based companies. So, I think that's a really positive example that we see there, and they're certainly showing some strong leadership within the sector.
Of course, the local government pensions scheme is an England-and-Wales scheme, so it's not devolved and so we wouldn't have any direct influence on it. But we're carefully looking at what's been achieved through the greater Gwent fund.
Yn 2018, pleidleisiodd Cyngor Sir Fynwy o blaid gofyn i gronfa Gwent fwyaf, sy'n ymdrin â phensiynau ar gyfer cynghorau Sir Fynwy, Torfaen, Blaenau Gwent, Caerffili a Chasnewydd, dynnu arian allan drwy orchymyn o gwmnïau sy'n seiliedig ar danwydd ffosil. Amcangyfrifwyd bod y gronfa ar y pryd yn buddsoddi £245 miliwn mewn cwmnïau sy'n seiliedig ar danwydd ffosil. Felly, credaf fod honno'n enghraifft gadarnhaol iawn, ac yn sicr maent yn dangos arweinyddiaeth gref o fewn y sector.
Wrth gwrs, mae'r cynllun pensiwn llywodraeth leol yn gynllun ar gyfer Cymru a Lloegr, felly nid yw wedi'i ddatganoli ac ni fyddai gennym unrhyw ddylanwad uniongyrchol arno. Ond rydym yn edrych yn ofalus ar yr hyn a gyflawnwyd drwy gronfa Gwent fwyaf.
4. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am effaith y dreth trafodiadau tir yng Nghymru? OAQ53710
4. Will the Minister make a statement on the impact of the land transaction tax in Wales? OAQ53710
Current land transaction tax rates and thresholds mean the vast majority of taxpayers pay the same or less tax than under stamp duty land tax. Outturn data for the first year will be considered once published by the Welsh Revenue Authority in June. Evidence indicates that taxpayers receive a high-quality service from the WRA.
Mae cyfraddau a throthwyon presennol y dreth trafodiadau tir yn golygu bod y rhan fwyaf o drethdalwyr yn talu yr un peth neu lai o dreth nag o dan dreth dir y dreth stamp. Ystyrir data alldro ar gyfer y flwyddyn gyntaf ar ôl ei gyhoeddi gan yr Awdurdod Cyllid Cymru ym mis Mehefin. Mae'r dystiolaeth yn dangos bod trethdalwyr yn cael gwasanaeth o ansawdd uchel gan Awdurdod Cyllid Cymru.
Thank you very much for the reply, Minister, but the Federation of Small Businesses in Wales recently published a report on creating a new tax system in Wales. When referring to the land transaction tax, the FSB found that many solicitors raised concerns about the properties close to or straddling the English border. They claim that they have difficulty working out which side of the border a property is on, because there is very little information on the definitive position of the boundary line. Several solicitors call for a straightforward way of quickly identifying whether a property is in England or Wales, preferably through the Welsh Revenue Authority website. Will the Minister agree to look into this matter and see what can be done to address the concerns of solicitors dealing with border properties?
Diolch yn fawr iawn am eich ymateb, Weinidog, ond yn ddiweddar, cyhoeddodd y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach yng Nghymru adroddiad ar greu system dreth newydd yng Nghymru. Wrth gyfeirio at y dreth trafodiadau tir, gwelodd y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach fod llawer o gyfreithwyr wedi mynegi pryderon am yr eiddo sy'n agos at, neu boptu'r ffin â Lloegr. Maent yn honni eu bod yn ei chael hi'n anodd canfod ar ba ochr i'r ffin y mae eiddo, am na cheir fawr iawn o wybodaeth ar leoliad pendant y ffin. Mae sawl cyfreithiwr yn galw am ffordd syml o ganfod yn gyflym a yw eiddo yng Nghymru neu yn Lloegr, drwy wefan Awdurdod Cyllid Cymru os oes modd. A wnaiff y Gweinidog gytuno i ymchwilio i'r mater hwn a gweld beth y gellir ei wneud i roi sylw i bryderon cyfreithwyr sy'n ymdrin ag eiddo ar y ffin?
I'll certainly look into any remaining concerns that exist, but I would hope that since the FSB undertook its research back in August those issues have now satisfactorily been resolved. But if there are individual cases where there remains concern, I'd be happy to take those cases up.
Yn sicr fe edrychaf ar unrhyw bryderon sy'n parhau, ond ers i'r Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach gyflawni eu hymchwil yn ôl ym mis Awst, buaswn yn gobeithio bod y materion hynny bellach wedi'u datrys yn foddhaol. Ond os oes achosion unigol lle ceir pryder o hyd, rwy'n hapus i ystyried yr achosion hynny.
5. Pa asesiad y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'i wneud o effaith polisi caffael cyhoeddus Llywodraeth Cymru? OAQ53691
5. What assessment has the Minister made of the impact of the Welsh Government's public procurement policy? OAQ53691
The Wales procurement policy statement is having a positive impact on the economy and communities of Wales, with Wales-based suppliers now winning 52 per cent of the annual £6.2 billion procurement expenditure, up from 35 per cent in 2004. Going forward, our policies will build on this to further strengthen the Welsh economy.
Mae datganiad polisi caffael Cymru yn cael effaith gadarnhaol ar economi a chymunedau Cymru, gyda chyflenwyr yng Nghymru bellach yn ennill 52 y cant o'r gwariant caffael blynyddol o £6.2 biliwn, i fyny o 35 y cant yn 2004. Wrth symud ymlaen, bydd ein polisïau'n adeiladu ar hyn i gryfhau economi Cymru ymhellach.
Minister, you'll be aware that when the National Procurement Service was first created in 2013 the then Minister, Jane Hutt, described the NPS as a
'very Welsh way to meet Welsh business needs but also value for money for the Welsh pound.'
Since then, however, as you know, the NPS has made significant losses, ultimately leading to the decision by the Welsh Government to review the NPS altogether.
Now, naturally, public procurement has been cited in the Welsh Government's own economic strategy, the economic action plan, as being a key enabler for driving forward business growth and job creation here in Wales. Can I therefore ask you to outline what you believe are the core factors that have contributed to the failure of the NPS? Do you agree that the failure of the NPS constitutes a serious and significant blow to the Welsh Government's overall programme for policy delivery in this Assembly term?
Weinidog, pan gafodd y Gwasanaeth Caffael Cenedlaethol ei greu yn 2013 fe fyddwch yn gwybod bod y Gweinidog ar y pryd, Jane Hutt, wedi disgrifio'r gwasanaeth fel
'ffordd Gymreig iawn o ateb gofynion busnesau Cymreig gan sicrhau gwerth am arian i'r bunt Gymreig.'
Ers hynny, fodd bynnag, fel y gwyddoch, mae'r Gwasanaeth Caffael Cenedlaethol wedi gwneud colledion sylweddol, gan arwain yn y pen draw at y penderfyniad gan Lywodraeth Cymru i adolygu'r gwasanaeth yn gyfan gwbl.
Nawr, yn naturiol, cyfeiriwyd at gaffael cyhoeddus yn strategaeth economaidd Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun, y cynllun gweithredu economaidd, fel ffactor galluogi allweddol ar gyfer hybu twf busnes a chreu swyddi yma yng Nghymru. Felly, a gaf fi ofyn i chi amlinellu beth y credwch yw'r ffactorau craidd sydd wedi cyfrannu at fethiant y Gwasanaeth Caffael Cenedlaethol? A ydych yn cytuno bod methiant y gwasanaeth yn ergyd ddifrifol a sylweddol i raglen gyffredinol Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer cyflawni polisi yn y tymor Cynulliad hwn?
In terms of the NPS, I would certainly refer you to the review that was undertaken of the NPS, which set out what our stakeholders told us they felt wasn't working as well as it could through the approach, and they were things such as not taking a sufficiently strong regional approach or not taking a sufficiently strong local approach to it. So, I think in terms of the most important thing, really, being moving forward from here, work is ongoing now in terms of the future delivery strategy. That work is well under way, as I say. We're sharing a draft with stakeholders by early summer of 2019, and I'd be more than happy to offer colleagues across the Chamber the opportunity to have a briefing session with officials and the opportunity to feed into that strategy, because I know that there's a great deal of interest in public procurement across the Assembly. The initial draft, as I say, should be ready by the end of the month, by which point we would start to go out to discuss it with stakeholders.
We're further refining some of the milestones that we would want, to take account of the feedback that we've already had from the Welsh Local Government Association and NHS Wales. That draft strategy will be the basis for undertaking some further consultation on a new way forward. We'll also be using events such as Procurex as a means of raising awareness of the work, and engaging with as wide a range of stakeholders as possible. But I'm absolutely clear that the way in which we move forward with this agenda has to be very much co-produced with those people who'll be using the service and benefiting from the service.
O ran y Gwasanaeth Caffael Cenedlaethol, yn sicr buaswn yn eich cyfeirio at yr adolygiad a gynhaliwyd o'r gwasanaeth, sy'n nodi beth y dywedodd ein rhanddeiliaid wrthym y teimlent nad oedd yn gweithio cystal ag y gallai drwy'r dull o weithredu, ac roeddent yn bethau fel methiant i arfer dull rhanbarthol digon cryf neu i fabwysiadu dull lleol digon cryf. Felly, gan y credaf mai'r peth mwyaf pwysig, mewn gwirionedd, yw symud ymlaen o'r fan hon, mae'r gwaith yn parhau yn awr o ran y strategaeth gyflawni yn y dyfodol. Mae'r gwaith hwnnw yn mynd rhagddo'n dda, fel y dywedais. Rydym yn rhannu drafft gyda rhanddeiliaid erbyn dechrau haf 2019, a buaswn yn fwy na pharod i gynnig cyfle i gyd-Aelodau ar draws y Siambr i gael sesiwn friffio gyda swyddogion a chyfle i gyfrannu at y strategaeth honno, oherwydd gwn fod llawer iawn o ddiddordeb mewn caffael cyhoeddus ar draws y Cynulliad. Fel y dywedaf, dylai'r drafft cyntaf fod yn barod erbyn diwedd y mis, ac erbyn hynny byddem yn dechrau mynd allan i'w drafod gyda rhanddeiliaid.
Rydym yn mireinio ymhellach rai o'r cerrig milltir y byddem yn eu dymuno, er mwyn ystyried yr adborth a gawsom eisoes gan Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a GIG Cymru. Bydd y strategaeth ddrafft honno yn sail ar gyfer ymgynghori pellach ar ffordd newydd ymlaen. Byddwn hefyd yn defnyddio digwyddiadau megis Procurex fel ffordd o godi ymwybyddiaeth o'r gwaith, ac yn ymgysylltu ag ystod mor eang â phosibl o randdeiliaid. Ond rwy'n gwbl glir fod yn rhaid i'r ffordd y byddwn yn symud ymlaen gyda'r agenda hon fod wedi'i chydgynhyrchu i raddau helaeth gyda'r bobl a fydd yn defnyddio'r gwasanaeth ac yn cael budd o'r gwasanaeth.
Minister, there's no doubt in my mind that the Welsh Government has an ambitious and dynamic strategy through which to harness the power of public procurement for the betterment of communities across Wales. But in order to do so, it's absolutely vital that we have procurement specialists right at the heart of local government, and we know that there are shortages within this area. So, what discussions have you had with the local government Minister around this and, in particular, are there any plans for a successor scheme to the Home Grown Talent scheme, which proved to be so successful a few years back?
Weinidog, nid oes amheuaeth yn fy meddwl fod gan Lywodraeth Cymru strategaeth uchelgeisiol a deinamig i harneisio pŵer caffael cyhoeddus er mwyn gwella cymunedau ledled Cymru. Ond er mwyn gwneud hynny, mae'n gwbl hanfodol fod gennym arbenigwyr caffael wrth galon llywodraeth leol, a gwyddom fod prinder yn y maes hwn. Felly, pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda'r Gweinidog llywodraeth leol ynglŷn â hyn ac yn arbennig, a oes unrhyw gynlluniau ar gyfer cynllun i olynu'r Doniau Cymru, a oedd mor llwyddiannus ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl?
Thank you for raising this, and I think that procurement is a very undervalued profession, given the huge difference that decisions made by procurement specialists can make to the local economy particularly. So, skills and capability are priority areas in the new approach that we're taking, and a new skills and training programme is going to be developed. Again, we'll do that in conjunction with stakeholders. The focus will be on not just procurement, but wider issues such as thinking innovatively, to take advantage of state aid rules and the procurement rules, to apply new approaches to procurement to achieve the economic benefits, create jobs and achieve well-being objectives across Wales. And in addition to this, we'll be providing new supporting guidance in key areas, such as social care and construction, to drive up consistency and capability in the commissioning and procurement of those vital areas of public service delivery. Again, we'll be looking particularly at risk assessment and management in terms of the work that we're doing to enhance capability within the sector. But I'm very clear that procurement professionals will be playing an absolutely key role in driving this agenda forward, and it was something that the First Minister set out very clearly in his leadership manifesto as one of his own priorities.
Diolch ichi am godi hyn, a chredaf fod caffael yn broffesiwn nad yw'n cael ei werthfawrogi hanner digon, o gofio'r gwahaniaeth enfawr y gall penderfyniadau a wneir gan arbenigwyr caffael ei wneud i'r economi leol yn enwedig. Felly, mae sgiliau a gallu yn feysydd blaenoriaethol yn y dull newydd a weithredwn, a bydd rhaglen sgiliau a hyfforddiant newydd yn cael ei datblygu. Unwaith eto, byddwn yn gwneud hynny ar y cyd â rhanddeiliaid. Bydd y ffocws nid yn unig ar gaffael, ond ar faterion ehangach megis meddwl yn arloesol, manteisio ar reolau cymorth gwladwriaethol a rheolau caffael, cymhwyso dulliau newydd o gaffael i sicrhau manteision economaidd, creu swyddi a sicrhau amcanion lles ar draws Cymru. Ac yn ogystal â hyn, byddwn yn darparu canllawiau ategol newydd mewn meysydd allweddol, megis gofal cymdeithasol ac adeiladu, i wella cysondeb a gallu yn y broses o gomisiynu a chaffael o fewn y meysydd hanfodol hynny o ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Unwaith eto, byddwn yn edrych yn arbennig ar asesu risg a rheoli o ran y gwaith a wnawn ar wella gallu o fewn y sector. Ond rwy'n glir iawn y bydd gweithwyr caffael proffesiynol yn chwarae rôl gwbl allweddol yn hyrwyddo'r agenda hon, ac roedd yn rhywbeth a nododd y Prif Weinidog yn glir iawn yn ei faniffesto arweinyddiaeth fel un o'i flaenoriaethau ei hun.
Yn anffodus, mae'r Gweinidog amgylchedd newydd orfod gadael y Siambr, ond mi oeddwn i'n gobeithio diolch iddi, yn ei phresenoldeb hi, a'i swyddogion am y ffordd y gwnaethon nhw weithio efo fi a Phrifysgol Bangor ar ôl i fi awgrymu y dylid gweithio efo nhw ar ffordd o achub llong y Prince Madog, a'i throi hi rywfodd yn llong ymchwil forwrol genedlaethol i Gymru. Dwi yn deall bod y trafodaethau yna efo swyddogion y Gweinidog a'r brifysgol wedi bod yn gadarnhaol iawn, ond bod penderfyniad wedi cael ei wneud fod rheolau caffael yn ei gwneud hi yn amhosib bwrw ymlaen â'r cynllun hwnnw, a fyddai wedi gallu achub y berthynas hynod o lwyddiannus sydd wedi gweithredu rhwng y brifysgol a chwmni P&O ers blynyddoedd. A dwi'n gwybod bod y Gweinidog amgylchedd, sydd yn ôl yma erbyn hyn, yn cydfynd â fi yn hyn o beth, ond a gaf i apelio arnoch chi fel Gweinidog i wneud popeth posib i sicrhau bod spec yn gallu cael ei roi at ei gilydd sydd yn golygu bod modd gweithio o fewn rheolau caffael i fwrw ymlaen efo'r cynllun yma, a fyddai'n achub y llong, achub eu gwaith ymchwil rhagorol, ac achub y swyddi lleol?
Unfortunately, the environment Minister has had to leave the Chamber, but I had hoped to thank her, in her presence, and her officials for the way they worked with and Bangor University after I’d suggested that we should work together on a way of saving the Prince Madog ship, and to turn it into a research vessel for Wales on maritime issues. I understand that those discussions with the Minister’s officials and the university had been very positive indeed, but a decision had been made that procurement rules made it impossible to proceed with that project, which could have saved that hugely successful relationship that’s existed between the university and P&O over a number of years. And I know that the environment Minister, who is back in her seat now, agrees with me in this regard, but may I appeal on you as Minister to do everything you can to ensure that a spec can be put together that would mean that it would be possible to work within procurement rules to proceed with this important project, which would save the ship, the excellent research work and local jobs?
Thank you for raising this, and I'm very happy to meet with the Minister to explore how we might take this agenda forward.
Diolch ichi am godi hyn, ac rwy'n hapus iawn i gyfarfod â'r Gweinidog i ystyried sut y gallem symud yr agenda hon yn ei blaen.
6. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ddyraniadau'r gyllideb i'r portffolio economi a thrafnidiaeth i gefnogi datblygu economaidd yn y cymoedd? OAQ53732
6. Will the Minister make a statement on budget allocations to the economy and transport portfolio to support economic development in the valleys? OAQ53732
Within the economy and transport portfolio, the Minister is prioritising investment to support economic development in the Valleys through a variety of measures, such as the Valleys taskforce priorities, Tech Valleys and a number of transport projects.
O fewn portffolio'r economi a thrafnidiaeth, mae'r Gweinidog yn blaenoriaethu buddsoddiad i gefnogi datblygiad economaidd yn y Cymoedd drwy amrywiaeth o fesurau, megis blaenoriaethau tasglu'r Cymoedd, y Cymoedd Technoleg a nifer o brosiectau trafnidiaeth.
We are at the moment enjoying historic record levels of investment to support and sustain the economy in the Valleys of south Wales. There's nearly £0.5 billion being spent around my constituency alone in dualling the A465 Heads of the Valleys road. But what's important is that we're able to maximise the value of these investments and we're able to have the maximum economic impact and create jobs and opportunities for people, particularly across the Heads of the Valleys. Would it be possible for the Minister and the Government to provide the National Assembly with a schedule of investments taking place? The Valleys taskforce has produced a delivery plan including strategic hubs and the Valleys regional park. It would be useful for all of us were we to have an update on the expenditure against those ambitions and targets and also to understand whether the Welsh Government intends to continue to maintain this level of investment.
Rydym ar hyn o bryd yn mwynhau lefelau uwch nag erioed o fuddsoddiad i gefnogi a chynnal yr economi yng Nghymoedd de Cymru. Mae bron i £0.5 biliwn yn cael ei wario o amgylch fy etholaeth i yn unig ar ddeuoli ffordd yr A465 Blaenau'r Cymoedd. Ond yr hyn sy'n bwysig yw ein bod yn gallu cynyddu gwerth y buddsoddiadau hyn ac yn gallu sicrhau'r effaith economaidd fwyaf sy'n bosibl a chreu swyddi a chyfleoedd i bobl, yn enwedig ar draws Blaenau'r Cymoedd. A fyddai'n bosibl i'r Gweinidog a'r Llywodraeth ddarparu atodlen ar gyfer y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol o'r buddsoddiadau sy'n digwydd? Mae tasglu'r Cymoedd wedi cynhyrchu cynllun cyflawni gan gynnwys canolfannau strategol a pharc rhanbarthol y Cymoedd. Byddai'n ddefnyddiol i bob un ohonom pe baem yn cael y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y gwariant yn erbyn y dyheadau a'r targedau hynny a chlywed hefyd a yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwriadu parhau i gynnal y lefel hon o fuddsoddiad.
Thank you for raising that. Of course, the 2019-20 budget includes spending of £25 million over two years to develop the seven strategic hubs in the Valleys taskforce area—which of course you announced, so you'll be very, very familiar with—to create employment and investment opportunities. We've also allocated £7 million of capital over two years, so £3.5 million in each of the 2019-20 and 2020-21 years, to support the development of the Valleys regional park. This will be used to support the development of the discovery gateways across the Valleys and to deliver ambitions set out in the Valleys regional park prospectus, which was published in October 2018. I know it's the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport's intention to bring forward a statement to the Assembly, which will encapsulate the Tech Valleys, the foundational economy and the Valleys taskforce work, and I'll ask him to bear in mind your comments this afternoon when he does that.
Diolch ichi am godi hynny. Wrth gwrs, mae cyllideb 2019-20 yn cynnwys gwariant o £25 miliwn dros ddwy flynedd i ddatblygu'r saith canolfan strategol yn ardal tasglu'r Cymoedd—a gyhoeddwyd gennych chi wrth gwrs, felly fe fyddwch yn gyfarwydd iawn â hyn—er mwyn creu cyfleoedd cyflogaeth a buddsoddiad. Hefyd rydym wedi dyrannu £7 miliwn o gyfalaf dros ddwy flynedd, felly £3.5 miliwn yn y ddwy flynedd, 2019-20 a 2020-21, i gefnogi datblygiad parc rhanbarthol y Cymoedd. Defnyddir hwn i gefnogi datblygiad y pyrth darganfod ar draws y Cymoedd ac i gyflawni uchelgeisiau a nodwyd ym mhrosbectws parc rhanbarthol y Cymoedd a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Hydref 2018. Gwn mai bwriad Dirprwy Weinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth yw cyflwyno datganiad i'r Cynulliad a fydd yn crynhoi'r Cymoedd Technoleg, yr economi sylfaenol a gwaith tasglu'r Cymoedd, ac fe ofynnaf iddo gadw eich sylwadau y prynhawn yma mewn cof pan fydd yn gwneud hynny.
It may well be that that statement's going to answer my question but I'm going to ask you just in case, because I was encouraged to hear from First Cymru that a prime example of co-ordinated bus timetables across counties could be found with the Maesteg-Cymmer service, where there are connections for onward journeys that are managed at Cymmer but start in a different county. The company's developed software recently to tell them of traffic delays so that they can contact drivers if one of the buses in that set-up is delayed and then other connecting buses can wait. The same company is talking about developing software to enable travellers to use one ticket in the Swansea valley and into Swansea even though more than one operator may be working on the particular route. I think we'd agree that mobility and connectivity is going to be pretty critical in regenerating Valleys economies and technologies enabling that. So, can you tell us a little bit more about how Welsh Government is using the budget allocation outside Tech Valleys, for general economic development, to speak with tech companies and persuade them that it's worth while setting up or expanding within the Valleys areas to become part of the circular economy in those areas, not just the foundational economy? Thank you.
Mae'n ddigon posibl y bydd y datganiad hwnnw'n ateb fy nghwestiwn, ond rwy'n mynd i ofyn i chi rhag ofn, oherwydd roedd yn galonogol clywed gan First Cymru y gellid dod o hyd i enghraifft wych o amserlenni bws cydgysylltiedig ar draws siroedd gyda gwasanaeth Maesteg-Cymer, lle ceir cysylltiadau ar gyfer teithiau ymlaen a reolir yn y Cymer ond sy'n dechrau mewn sir wahanol. Mae'r cwmni wedi datblygu meddalwedd yn ddiweddar i ddweud wrthynt ynglŷn ag unrhyw oedi i draffig fel y gallant gysylltu â gyrwyr os bydd un o'r bysiau yn y trefniant hwnnw wedi'i ohirio, er mwyn i'r bysiau sy'n cysylltu allu aros amdanynt. Mae'r un cwmni'n sôn am ddatblygu meddalwedd i alluogi teithwyr i ddefnyddio un tocyn yng nghwm Tawe ac i mewn i Abertawe er efallai y bydd mwy nag un gweithredwr yn gweithio ar y llwybr penodol. Credaf y byddem yn cytuno bod symudedd a chysylltedd yn mynd i fod yn eithaf hanfodol wrth adfywio economïau'r Cymoedd a thechnolegau i alluogi hynny. Felly, a allwch ddweud ychydig mwy wrthym ynglŷn â sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn defnyddio dyraniad y gyllideb y tu allan i'r Cymoedd Technoleg, ar gyfer datblygu economaidd cyffredinol, i siarad â chwmnïau technoleg a'u perswadio ei bod yn werth lleoli neu ehangu o fewn ardaloedd y Cymoedd er mwyn dod yn rhan o'r economi gylchol yn yr ardaloedd hynny, nid yr economi sylfaenol yn unig? Diolch.
I'll certainly ask my colleague who is best placed to provide you with a fuller update on the work that he's undertaking there. I know that the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport is extremely ambitious for the Tech Valleys and is pursuing a number of ideas that could bring together some very exciting approaches to technology and to the digital agenda within that area. I'm also very keen to explore what more we can do to harness the potential of digital to ensure that transport does become more accessible for people. I'll make sure that you have a fuller response to that.FootnoteLink
Byddaf yn sicr yn gofyn i fy nghyd-Aelod sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i roi diweddariad llawnach i chi ar y gwaith y mae'n ei wneud yno. Gwn fod Dirprwy Weinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth yn hynod o uchelgeisiol ar gyfer y Cymoedd Technoleg ac yn mynd ar drywydd nifer o syniadau a allai gyfuno dulliau cyffrous iawn o weithredu technoleg a'r agenda ddigidol o fewn yr ardal honno. Rwyf hefyd yn awyddus iawn i ystyried beth arall y gallwn ei wneud i harneisio potensial digidol i sicrhau bod trafnidiaeth yn dod yn fwy hygyrch i bobl. Fe wnaf yn siŵr eich bod yn cael ymateb llawnach i hynny.FootnoteLink
7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gynnydd o ran datblygu polisi treth Llywodraeth Cymru? OAQ53728
7. Will the Minister make a statement on progress in developing the Welsh Government's tax policy? OAQ53728
The Welsh Government's 2017 tax policy framework established the principles that define our strategic approach to Welsh taxes. My 2019 tax policy work plan, published in February, sets out what we're doing in three key areas: tax development, tax administration, and engagement and capacity building.
Sefydlodd fframwaith polisi treth Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer 2017 yr egwyddorion sy'n diffinio ein dull strategol o weithredu trethi Cymru. Mae fy nghynllun gwaith ar y polisi treth ar gyfer 2019, a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Chwefror, yn nodi beth a wnawn mewn tri maes allweddol: datblygu treth, gweinyddu treth, ac ymgysylltu a meithrin gallu.
Minister, tourism is very important in Wales and a very important part of our economy. Many countries have a tourism tax, which provides revenue to improve the tourism product and indeed help promote and market tourism effectively. Is Welsh Government—[Interruption.] There are also anxieties around the proposals, which I understand. So, is Welsh Government continuing to consider and undertake work on a potential tourism tax in Wales?
Weinidog, mae twristiaeth yn bwysig iawn yng Nghymru ac yn rhan bwysig iawn o'n heconomi. Mae gan lawer o wledydd dreth dwristiaeth, sy'n darparu refeniw i wella cynnyrch twristiaeth ac yn wir yn helpu i hyrwyddo a marchnata twristiaeth yn effeithiol. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru—[Torri ar draws.] Mae yna bryderon hefyd ynghylch yr argymhellion, ac rwy'n eu deall. Felly, a yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i ystyried a gwneud gwaith ar dreth dwristiaeth bosibl yng Nghymru?
Thank you for raising this. We're certainly working with the tourism sector and with local government to begin to explore the nature and possible impact of a tourism tax and the merits that have been brought forward for it, but also the concerns that the tourism sector has expressed about this idea. The consideration of a tourism tax has identified a number of policy issues that we need to give some further consideration to, including, for example, the relationship between a tourism tax and VAT on tourist accommodation and how local tourism taxes might intersect with other key policy areas, such as local taxes and existing regulatory pressures. But we continue to examine these issues over the longer term and to do so very much in partnership with the tourism sector and local authorities, whilst also keeping a keen eye on the developments that are happening elsewhere in the UK and further afield in this area.
Diolch ichi am godi hyn. Rydym yn sicr yn gweithio gyda'r sector twristiaeth a llywodraeth leol i ddechrau archwilio natur ac effaith bosibl treth dwristiaeth a'r rhinweddau a gyflwynwyd mewn perthynas â hi, ond hefyd y pryderon a fynegwyd gan y sector twristiaeth ynglŷn â'r syniad hwn. Mae ystyriaeth o dreth dwristiaeth wedi nodi nifer o faterion polisi sy'n galw am fwy o ystyriaeth ar ein rhan, gan gynnwys, er enghraifft, y berthynas rhwng treth dwristiaeth a TAW ar lety i dwristiaid a sut y gallai trethi twristiaeth lleol groestorri â meysydd polisi allweddol eraill, megis trethi lleol a phwysau rheoleiddiol presennol. Ond rydym yn parhau i archwilio'r materion hyn yn fwy hirdymor ac i wneud hynny'n bendant iawn mewn partneriaeth â'r sector twristiaeth ac awdurdodau lleol, gan gadw llygad manwl ar y datblygiadau sy'n digwydd mewn mannau eraill yn y DU ac ymhellach i ffwrdd yn y maes hwn.
Ac, yn olaf, cwestiwn 8, Alun Davies.
And, finally, question 8, Alun Davies.
8. Pa asesiad y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'i wneud o effaith bosibl Brexit ar gyllidebau Llywodraeth Cymru yn y dyfodol? OAQ53733
8. What assessment has the Minister made of the potential impact of Brexit on future Welsh Government budgets? OAQ53733
The chief economist’s report, published alongside the draft budget 2019-20, provides an analysis of Wales’s medium-term fiscal prospects. Both economic and fiscal prospects depend crucially on the form of exiting the EU.
Mae adroddiad y prif economegydd, a gyhoeddwyd ochr yn ochr â chyllideb ddrafft 2019-20, yn rhoi dadansoddiad o ragolygon cyllidol Cymru yn y tymor canolig. Mae rhagolygon economaidd ac ariannol yn dibynnu'n allweddol ar ffurf ein hymadawiad â'r UE.
Minister, we're aware that the chaos surrounding Brexit at present is already having a damaging impact on the budgets of the United Kingdom, but also on the perception of the United Kingdom in the wider world. We are also aware that there isn't a single form of Brexit that actually benefits the economy. There's no such thing as a jobs-first Brexit, there's no such thing as an economy-first Brexit. We know that Brexit, whatever form it takes, will have a detrimental impact on the economy of Wales and the economy of the United Kingdom. The question we ask ourselves is what sort of negative impact it will have. Now, that clearly will impact our ability to raise taxation, both in Wales and the United Kingdom. It would appear to me that it would be useful were the Welsh Government to be able to make a full statement on the potential impacts on public spending in Wales of Brexit, whatever form it takes.
Weinidog, rydym yn ymwybodol fod yr anhrefn sy'n gysylltiedig â Brexit ar hyn o bryd eisoes yn cael effaith niweidiol ar gyllidebau'r Deyrnas Unedig, a hefyd ar y canfyddiad o'r Deyrnas Unedig yn y byd ehangach. Rydym hefyd yn ymwybodol nad oes unrhyw fath o Brexit mewn gwirionedd o fudd i'r economi. Nid oes y fath beth â Brexit swyddi yn gyntaf, nid oes y fath beth â Brexit economi yn gyntaf. Gwyddom y bydd Brexit, ar ba ffurf bynnag, yn effeithio'n andwyol ar economi Cymru ac economi'r Deyrnas Unedig. Y cwestiwn i ni ei ofyn i ni ein hunain yw pa fath o effaith negyddol fydd iddo. Nawr, bydd hynny'n amlwg yn effeithio ar ein gallu i godi trethi, yng Nghymru a'r Deyrnas Unedig. Ymddengys i mi y byddai'n ddefnyddiol pe bai Llywodraeth Cymru'n gallu gwneud datganiad llawn ar effeithiau posibl Brexit, ar ba ffurf bynnag, ar wariant cyhoeddus yng Nghymru.
Thank you. It is my intention to bring forward before the end of the summer term a statement on the outlook for public spending, and that will certainly be informed by the form that Brexit takes, but you're absolutely right to say that there is no Brexit that isn't harmful to the Welsh economy, and we set that out very clearly in the 'Securing Wales's Future' policy paper, but also in terms of the economic analysis, which we also published in December, regarding the potential ways in which we might leave the EU. And, actually, it's a fact that Wales might even be or is likely to be even worse hit than other parts of the UK. I was interested to read today Goldman Sachs saying £600 million a week has already been lost to the UK since the European referendum. I certainly didn't see that on the side of a bus.
Diolch. Fy mwriad yw cyflwyno datganiad cyn diwedd tymor yr haf ar y rhagolygon ar gyfer gwariant cyhoeddus, a bydd hwnnw'n sicr yn seiliedig ar ffurf Brexit, ond rydych yn hollol gywir i ddweud nad oes unrhyw ffurf ar Brexit nad yw'n niweidiol i economi Cymru, ac rydym yn nodi hynny'n glir iawn yn y papur polisi 'Diogelu Dyfodol Cymru', ond hefyd o ran y dadansoddiad economaidd, a gyhoeddwyd gennym ym mis Rhagfyr, ynglŷn â'r ffyrdd posibl o adael yr UE. Ac mewn gwirionedd, mae'n ffaith y gallai Cymru, neu fod Cymru'n debygol o gael ei tharo hyd yn oed yn waeth na rhannau eraill o'r DU. Roedd yn ddiddorol darllen Goldman Sachs heddiw yn dweud bod £600 miliwn yr wythnos wedi'i golli eisoes yn y DU ers y refferendwm ar Ewrop. Yn sicr ni welais hynny ar ochr bws.
Diolch i'r Gweinidog.
Thank you to the Minister.
Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw’r cwestiynau i Weinidog y Gymraeg a Chysylltiadau Rhyngwladol. Mae’r cwestiwn cyntaf i’w ateb gan y Dirprwy Weinidog, a’r cwestiwn gan Dawn Bowden.
The next item, therefore, is questions to the Minister for International Relations and Welsh Language, and the first question will be answered by the Deputy Minister, and the question is from Dawn Bowden.
1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am sut y mae gwaith Amgueddfeydd ac Orielau Cenedlaethol Cymru yn dod â manteision i Ferthyr Tudful a Rhymni? OAQ53715
1. Will the Minister provide an update on how the work of the National Museums and Galleries of Wales brings benefits to Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney? OAQ53715
Amgueddfa Cymru, the National Museum, opens its doors freely at its seven sites throughout Wales. It leads the sector in reaching out and engaging with socially diverse audiences across Wales, and I am fully aware, having been schooled by Professor Gwyn Alf Williams, that everything of value in the industrial revolution and radical politics in Wales began in Merthyr. [Laughter.]
Mae Amgueddfa Cymru yn agor ei drysau am ddim yn ei saith safle ledled Cymru. Mae'n arwain y sector drwy estyn allan ac ymgysylltu â chynulleidfaoedd amrywiol yn gymdeithasol ar draws Cymru, ac rwy'n gwbl ymwybodol, ar ôl cael fy addysgu gan yr Athro Gwyn Alf Williams, fod popeth o werth yn y chwyldro diwydiannol a gwleidyddiaeth radicalaidd yng Nghymru wedi dechrau ym Merthyr Tudful. [Chwerthin.]
And it absolutely did, Minister, so thank you for that. And could I, just while I'm on my feet, just take the opportunity to thank you for being in Merthyr Tydfil recently to start the half marathon and for the Welsh Government grant funding—
Yn bendant iawn, Weinidog, felly diolch am hynny. A chan fy mod ar fy nhraed, a gaf fi fanteisio ar y cyfle i ddiolch i chi am fod ym Merthyr Tudful yn ddiweddar i ddechrau'r hanner marathon ac am arian grant Llywodraeth Cymru—
Did he finish it?
A lwyddodd i orffen?
—that allowed it? He didn't run it, he just started it.
Minister, many of us will have noticed the success that was achieved recently by putting Dippy the Dinosaur on a tour of museums around the UK, and I'm sure our own national galleries and museums similarly have exhibits that could be put on display in venues across the south Wales Valleys and beyond. Indeed, there are many exhibits currently held in storage that could be used that way, so to what extent can you direct our national galleries and museums to bring their exhibits to the people, using local attractions like Cyfarthfa Castle or the Redhouse in Merthyr, for example, to hopefully generate additional visitors and much-needed trade? For example, the Trevithick train is held in the maritime museum in Swansea and not in its home in Merthyr Tydfil, and I'm sure the people of Merthyr Tydfil would like to see it brought to Merthyr now and again for people there locally to have a look at. So, would you agree that using suitably chosen exhibits could be another practical strand of activities in our Valleys strategies?
—a'i gwnaeth yn bosibl? Ei dechrau a wnaeth, nid ei rhedeg.
Weinidog, bydd llawer ohonom wedi sylwi ar y llwyddiant a gafwyd yn ddiweddar wrth fynd â Dippy y deinosor ar daith o amgylch amgueddfeydd y DU, ac rwy'n siŵr fod gan ein horielau a'n hamgueddfeydd cenedlaethol ein hunain arddangosion yn yr un modd y gellid eu harddangos mewn lleoliadau ledled Cymoedd de Cymru a thu hwnt. Yn wir, mae yna lawer o arddangosion a gedwir mewn storfeydd ar hyn o bryd y gellid eu defnyddio yn y ffordd honno, felly i ba raddau y gallwch gyfeirio ein horielau a'n hamgueddfeydd cenedlaethol i ddod â'u harddangosion at y bobl, gan ddefnyddio atyniadau lleol fel y Redhouse neu Gastell Cyfarthfa ym Merthyr Tudful, er enghraifft, yn y gobaith o greu ymwelwyr ychwanegol a masnach fawr ei hangen? Er enghraifft, cedwir trên Trevithick yn amgueddfa'r môr yn Abertawe ac nid yn ei gartref ym Merthyr Tudful, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddai pobl Merthyr Tudful yn hoffi ei weld yn dod i Ferthyr Tudful o bryd i'w gilydd er mwyn i'r bobl yno'n lleol gael ei weld. Felly, a ydych yn cytuno y gallai defnyddio arddangosion wedi'u dewis yn addas fod yn elfen ymarferol arall o weithgareddau yn ein strategaethau ar gyfer y Cymoedd?
Well, the answer to that must be 'yes'. I'm always encouraging the national museums and galleries to ensure that all aspects of the national collection that can be displayed across the country are displayed in that way. We have centres such as Oriel y Parc in St Davids, or some of the libraries—most recently I was at Haverfordwest opening a new library where there's a special relationship with the national museum and galleries, and, of course, the Welsh Government itself did invest, under the Sharing Treasures scheme, in Cyfarthfa Castle and I'm very interested in ensuring that we spend more on the various funds that we have—the capital funding through the transformation fund, for example, operated by my department—to make it possible to bring the various spaces in which we hold exhibitions to the right standard.
As regards the engine, I will—[Interruption.] As regards the engine, I will discuss with the National Museum directly because I am obsessed, as you know, with the history of steam and coal and the development of railways in Wales. I will discuss with the National Museum in what way we might be able to help you on this. Now, whether it's transferring the engine regularly or transferring it on a longer term relationship—.
Wel, rhaid mai'r ateb i hynny yw 'ydw'. Rwyf bob amser yn annog yr amgueddfeydd a'r orielau cenedlaethol i sicrhau bod pob agwedd ar y casgliad cenedlaethol y gellir eu dangos ar draws y wlad yn cael eu harddangos yn y ffordd honno. Mae gennym ganolfannau fel Oriel y Parc yn Nhyddewi, neu rai o'r llyfrgelloedd—yn fwyaf diweddar roeddwn yn Hwlffordd yn agor llyfrgell newydd lle mae yna berthynas arbennig â'r amgueddfa a'r orielau cenedlaethol, ac wrth gwrs, fe wnaeth Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun fuddsoddi, o dan y cynllun Cyfoeth Cymru Gyfan, yng Nghastell Cyfarthfa ac mae gennyf ddiddordeb mawr mewn sicrhau ein bod yn gwario mwy ar y cronfeydd amrywiol sydd gennym—yr arian cyfalaf drwy'r gronfa trawsnewid, er enghraifft, a weithredir gan fy adran—er mwyn ei gwneud yn bosibl gwella safon y mannau amrywiol sydd gennym ar gyfer cynnal arddangosfeydd.
O ran yr injan, fe wnaf—[Torri ar draws.] O ran yr injan, byddaf yn trafod gyda'r Amgueddfa Genedlaethol yn uniongyrchol oherwydd mae gennyf obsesiwn, fel y gwyddoch, â hanes stêm a glo a datblygiad y rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru. Byddaf yn trafod gyda'r Amgueddfa Genedlaethol pa ffordd y gallem eich helpu ar hyn. Nawr, p'un a yw'n golygu trosglwyddo'r injan yn rheolaidd neu ei throsglwyddo fel rhan o berthynas fwy hirdymor—.
Minister, can I commend you for trying to get as much of the national collection out there and seen as possible? Too much of it is held in storage and we should remember that these items are there to be seen and that is why they're in the collection in the first place. Will you join me in commending Dawn Bowden's work to promote knowledge of Merthyr's Jewish community, established in 1848, and most magnificently seen in the Gothic revival style synagogue, which was built in 1877? That synagogue's future is still in question, and I wonder if you would ask the National Museum to look at the new initiative that's been called—that is called, rather—the Historic Synagogues of Europe project, which is looking at industrial communities and other areas where there was a large Jewish population and ensuring that these historic treasures are preserved.
Weinidog, a gaf fi eich cymeradwyo am geisio cael cymaint o'r casgliad cenedlaethol allan yno ag sy'n bosibl er mwyn iddo gael ei weld? Mae gormod ohono wedi'i gadw mewn storfeydd a dylem gofio bod yr eitemau hyn yno i'w gweld a dyna pam y maent yn y casgliad yn y lle cyntaf. A wnewch chi ymuno â mi i ganmol gwaith Dawn Bowden yn hybu gwybodaeth am gymuned Iddewig Merthyr Tudful, a sefydlwyd ym 1848, ac a welir ar ei mwyaf ardderchog yn y synagog a luniwyd yn arddull yr adfywiad Gothig, ac a adeiladwyd yn 1877? Mae dyfodol y synagog yn dal i fod yn ansicr, a tybed a allech ofyn i'r Amgueddfa Genedlaethol edrych ar y fenter newydd a alwyd—a elwir, yn hytrach—yn brosiect Synagogau Hanesyddol Ewrop, sy'n edrych ar gymunedau diwydiannol ac ardaloedd eraill lle roedd yna boblogaeth Iddewig fawr a sicrhau bod y trysorau hanesyddol hyn yn cael eu cadw.
I'm very grateful to you for your support on our activity. I have a particular interest, of course, because of my own background and my own practice, in the history of all faith communities and particularly the role of the Jewish community in the development of Wales, the development of business and capitalism and investment within Wales, especially in key periods of the industrial revolution, and I will certainly make sure that I discuss this. There has been an initiative, and I have attended some meetings of faith groups specifically looking at the use of faith buildings for the conservation purposes that will then lead to them having a current value, and it seems to me that the key here, as always, is monuments are not there to be monuments. They're there to be used currently in order to interpret what happened there in the past.
Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i chi am eich cefnogaeth i'n gweithgarwch. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb arbennig, wrth gwrs, oherwydd fy nghefndir a fy arfer fy hun, yn hanes pob cymuned ffydd ac yn arbennig rôl y gymuned Iddewig yn datblygu Cymru, yn datblygu busnesau a chyfalafiaeth a buddsoddiad yng Nghymru, yn enwedig yn ystod cyfnodau allweddol o'r chwyldro diwydiannol, a byddaf yn sicr yn gwneud yn siŵr fy mod yn trafod hyn. Cafwyd menter, a mynychais gyfarfodydd grwpiau ffydd i edrych yn benodol ar y defnydd o adeiladau ffydd at ddibenion cadwraeth a bydd hynny wedyn yn arwain at roi gwerth cyfoes iddynt, ac mae'n ymddangos i mi mai'r allwedd yma, fel bob amser, yw nad yw henebion yno i fod yn henebion. Maent yno i gael eu defnyddio yn y presennol er mwyn dehongli'r hyn a ddigwyddodd yno yn y gorffennol.
2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am barodrwydd sefydliadau mawr y sector preifat, fel banciau, i dderbyn gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg? OAQ53697
2. Will the Minister make a statement on the preparedness of large private sector organisations, such as banks, to accept correspondence in Welsh? OAQ53697
Wel, diolch yn fawr, Mike, a diolch am ofyn y cwestiwn yn Gymraeg. Dwi'n falch o weld y byddwch chi'n un o'r miliwn erbyn 2050. Diolch yn fawr. Mae Comisiynydd y Gymraeg yn gweithio gyda'r sector banciau i’w hannog i drin y Gymraeg a’r Saesneg yn gyfartal. Yn ddiweddar, ysgrifennais at y comisiynydd er mwyn cynnig cymorth fy swyddogion i ddatblygu technoleg addas i’w cynorthwyo i ddarparu gwasanaethau Cymraeg. Byddai hwn, wrth gwrs, yn cynnwys gohebiaeth.
Thank you very much, Mike, and thank you for posing the question in Welsh. I’m pleased to see that you will be one of the million by 2050. The Welsh Language Commissioner works with the banking sector to encourage them to treat Welsh and English on the basis of equality, and recently I wrote to the commissioner offering my officials' support and assistance in developing appropriate technology to assist them in providing Welsh language services, and this, of course, would include correspondence.
Diolch am eich ateb.
Thank you for your response.
The difficulty my daughter had in getting Lloyds Bank to accept the form in Welsh is well-documented. What discussion has the Minister had, or intends to have, with banks, building societies and insurance companies regarding accepting correspondence in Welsh, because otherwise we're going to have a two-tier system, where the public sector responds in Welsh and the private sector doesn't?
Mae'r anhawster a gafodd fy merch i gael Banc Lloyds i dderbyn y ffurflen yn Gymraeg wedi cael llawer o sylw. Pa drafodaethau a gafodd y Gweinidog, neu y mae'n bwriadu eu cael, gyda banciau, cymdeithasau adeiladu a chwmnïau yswiriant ynglŷn â derbyn gohebiaeth yn Gymraeg, oherwydd fel arall bydd gennym system ddwy haen, lle mae'r sector cyhoeddus yn ymateb yn Gymraeg ac ni fydd y sector preifat yn gwneud hynny?
Wel, dwi wedi cael cyfarfod gyda'r banciau a hefyd gyda'r comisiynydd iaith, ac, wrth gwrs, mae hwn yn gyfrifoldeb ar y comisiynydd. Dwi yn cydnabod, a dwi'n meddwl ei bod hi'n bwysig ein bod ni'n cydnabod, fod correspondence yn rhan allweddol o wasanaeth y banc. Mae'r comisiynydd wedi cyflwyno seminar yn ddiweddar yn Llundain, achos, yn aml, dyna lle mae'r penderfyniadau'n cael eu gwneud, ac felly dwi'n meddwl dyna'r ffordd i bwyso arnyn nhw, ac, wrth gwrs, hefyd, i ddeall bod pethau'n newid yn y ffordd y mae pobl yn defnyddio banciau. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod pobl yn defnyddio technoleg a bod y dechnoleg yna ar gael drwy'r Gymraeg. Ac mae'n ddiddorol—mae Santander, er enghraifft, wedi datblygu meddalwedd lle, unwaith rŷch chi'n defnyddio'r Gymraeg unwaith, mae'n cofio eich bod chi'n siaradwr Cymraeg, a dwi'n meddwl y dylen ni fod yn annog eraill i wneud hynny.
Well, I have had a meeting with the banks and the language commissioner, and, of course, this is the commissioner’s responsibility. But I do recognise, and I do think it’s important that we should all recognise, that correspondence is a key part of the service provided by banks. The commissioner has recently presented a seminar in London, because, very often, that’s where decisions are made, and I think that’s the way to put pressure on them and, of course, to understand that things are changing in the way that people use the banks. We need to ensure that people use technology and that that technology is available through the medium of Welsh. It’s interesting how Santander, for example, has developed software, where, once you use the Welsh language once, it remembers that you are a Welsh speaker, and I think we should be encouraging others to do likewise.
It makes very good business sense, of course, for any organisation to be able to interact with their customers in the language of their choice, and that obviously includes Welsh, especially given that we want to see the Welsh language promoted. Now, many businesses, both large and small, will have members of staff within their teams who are Welsh speaking, but who very infrequently use their Welsh-language skills on a day-to-day basis. What work is the Welsh Government doing to encourage the use of those skills more widely within businesses of all sizes across Wales in order that the opportunity to use Welsh with customers is something that is not hidden, if you like, in terms of these latent skills, but is there for all to see, so that customers can be encouraged to communicate through the medium of Welsh?
Mae'n gwneud synnwyr busnes da iawn, wrth gwrs, i unrhyw sefydliad allu rhyngweithio â'u cwsmeriaid yn eu dewis iaith, ac mae hynny'n amlwg yn cynnwys Cymraeg, yn enwedig o gofio ein bod eisiau gweld yr iaith Gymraeg yn cael ei hyrwyddo. Nawr, bydd gan lawer o fusnesau, yn fawr ac yn fach, aelodau o staff yn eu timau sy'n siarad Cymraeg, ond sydd ond yn defnyddio eu sgiliau iaith Gymraeg o ddydd i ddydd yn anaml iawn. Pa waith y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i annog defnydd ehangach o'r sgiliau hynny mewn busnesau o bob maint ledled Cymru fel bod y cyfle i ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg â chwsmeriaid yn rhywbeth nad yw'n gudd, os mynnwch, o ran y sgiliau cudd hyn, ond eu bod yno i bawb eu gweld, fel y gellir annog cwsmeriaid i gyfathrebu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg?
Wel, wrth gwrs, byddwch chi'n ymwybodol bod y Llywodraeth wedi cyhoeddi bod 12 o swyddogion busnes ledled Cymru nawr yn mynd o gwmpas busnesau bach i roi syniadau iddyn nhw ar sut gallan nhw ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg yn y gweithle. A hefyd, wrth gwrs, mae'r cynllun Cymraeg Gwaith sy'n cael ei redeg gan y Ganolfan Dysgu Cymraeg Genedlaethol. Mae miloedd ar filoedd o bobl eisoes wedi defnyddio'r cyfle i ddysgu'r Gymraeg yn y gweithle, ac, wrth gwrs, rŷn ni'n rhoi cyfraniad hael tuag at y cyfle iddyn nhw i ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg. Mae lot o hyn am rili cynyddu hyder pobl i ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg yn y gweithle. Mae lot o waith yn cael ei wneud eisoes y tu fewn i'r Llywodraeth, ond beth sy'n dda nawr yw bod hwnna'n mynd allan i'r sector breifat hefyd.
Well, of course, you will be aware that the Government has announced that 12 business officials across Wales are now going around small businesses, providing them with ideas on how they can use the Welsh language in the workplace. And also, of course, there is the Cymraeg Gwaith scheme, which is run by the National Centre for Learning Welsh. Thousands and thousands of people have already used the opportunity to learn Welsh in the workplace, and, of course, we are providing a very significant contribution for them to use the Welsh language. A lot of this is about increasing people’s confidence to use the Welsh language in the workplace. A lot of work is being done within the Government already, but what is good now is that that is now going out to the private sector as well.
Minister, thankfully, apart from a few training issues, large private sector organisations such as banks and utility companies already accept correspondence in both Wales's official languages. Do you agree with me that, if we are to encourage more private sector organisations to follow suit, we have to incentivise rather than penalise? Minister, what consideration has the Welsh Government given to offering Welsh-language tuition to such organisations and perhaps reductions in business rates to those organisations that encourage staff to develop their Welsh language skills?
Weinidog, diolch byth, ar wahân i ychydig o faterion hyfforddiant, mae sefydliadau mawr yn y sector preifat megis banciau a chwmnïau cyfleustodau eisoes yn derbyn gohebiaeth yn nwy iaith swyddogol Cymru. Os ydym am annog mwy o sefydliadau sector preifat i wneud yr un peth, a ydych yn cytuno bod rhaid inni gymell yn hytrach na chosbi? Weinidog, pa ystyriaeth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i rhoi i gynnig hyfforddiant iaith Gymraeg i sefydliadau o'r fath a gostyngiadau mewn ardrethi busnes efallai i'r sefydliadau sy'n annog staff i ddatblygu eu sgiliau iaith Gymraeg?
Diolch yn fawr. I think you're absolutely right, there are—. It's really important that we use the carrot and the stick where possible. I am more in favour of the carrot, generally, than the stick, and that's why we have really contributed millions to an initiative to encourage people to take up learning the language in the workplace. But the other side of this, of course, is that Welsh speakers—if these private sector companies are providing that service through the medium of Welsh, then it's incumbent on us, as Welsh speakers—
Diolch yn fawr. Credaf eich bod yn hollol gywir, mae—. Mae'n bwysig iawn inni ddefnyddio'r foronen a'r wialen lle bo hynny'n bosibl. Rwy'n fwy cefnogol i'r foronen, yn gyffredinol, na'r wialen, a dyna pam yr ydym wedi cyfrannu miliynau i fenter i annog pobl i ddysgu'r iaith yn y gweithle. Ond yr ochr arall i hyn, wrth gwrs, yw bod siaradwyr Cymraeg—os yw'r cwmnïau sector preifat hyn yn darparu'r gwasanaeth hwnnw drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, mae'n ddyletswydd arnom ni, fel siaradwyr Cymraeg—
—fel siaradwyr Cymraeg, i sicrhau ein bod ni'n defnyddio'r gwasanaeth yna. A dyna'r broblem ar hyn o bryd. Yn aml iawn, mae'r gwasanaethau yna; ychydig iawn o Gymry Cymraeg sy'n eu defnyddio nhw. Mae'n rhaid inni fod yn sicr ein bod ni, fel Cymry Cymraeg, yn defnyddio'r gwasanaethau yna pryd bo hynny—pan fo'r cyfle yna gyda ni.
—as Welsh speakers to ensure that we make use of those services. And that’s the problem at the moment. Very often, the services are available but very few Welsh speakers make use of them. We have to ensure that we, as Welsh speakers, do make use of those services when they are available and when that opportunity arises.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Siân Gwenllian.
Questions now from the party spokespeople. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Siân Gwenllian.
Diolch, Llywydd. Pum mlynedd yn ôl, mi oeddwn i’n cynrychioli Cyngor Gwynedd ar fwrdd Cartrefi Cymunedol Gwynedd, sef y gymdeithas tai sy’n gyfrifol am reoli dros 6,300 o dai cymdeithasol Gwynedd. Mae mwyafrif helaeth staff y corff yn siaradwyr Cymraeg, mae’r Gymraeg yn iaith mwyafrif y boblogaeth y mae’r sefydliad yma’n ei gwasanaethu, ac mae pencadlys y corff yn un o gadarnleoedd y Gymraeg. Mae’r corff wedi ymrwymo i gynnal yr arfer o weinyddu’n fewnol drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg ac i wneud y gallu i gyfathrebu yn y Gymraeg yn sgìl hanfodol ar gyfer pob swydd er mwyn gweithredu hynny.
Yn 2014, fe wnaeth y bwrdd benderfynu bwrw ati, yn groes i gyngor Comisiynydd y Gymraeg, ac yn groes i gynllun iaith y sefydliad, i benodi i ddwy o brif swyddi'r corff heb ofyn am sgiliau Cymraeg, a hynny ar gyngor asiantaeth recriwtio o Leamington Spa. Mae yna gonsensws o blaid gweinyddu yn fewnol drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn y sector cyhoeddus yng Ngwynedd, ac mae'n fater o gyfiawnder cymdeithasol bod y Gymraeg yn cael ei chynnal yn iaith gwaith, ac yn iaith fyw, yn y rhannau yma o'r byd. Gan fy mod i'n gweld hynny i gyd yn y fantol nôl yn 2014, mi wnes i ymddiswyddo o'r bwrdd.
Rŵan, mae hi wedi dod i'r amlwg bod y corff yma unwaith eto yn recriwtio uchel swyddogion, efo cymorth asiantaeth o Birmingham y tro yma. Ac mae swydd dirprwy brif weithredwr, swydd sydd â chyflog o £105,000, wedi cael ei hysbysebu heb unrhyw ofyniad o ran gallu i gyfathrebu yn y Gymraeg, dim ond 'dirnadaeth' o'r Gymraeg ac o ddiwylliant gogledd Cymru, beth bynnag ydy hynny.
Thank you, Llywydd. Five years ago, I represented Gwynedd Council on the Cartrefi Cymunedol Gwynedd board, which is the housing association responsible for managing over 6,300 homes in Gwynedd. The majority of the staff of the organisation are Welsh speakers, the Welsh language is a language of the majority of the population served by this organisation, and the headquarters is in one of the strongholds of the Welsh language. The body is committed to maintaining the practice of administering internally through the medium of Welsh and making the ability to communicate through the medium of Welsh a key skill for all posts in order to implement that.
In 2014, the board decided, contrary to the advice of the Welsh Language Commissioner, and contrary to the language scheme of the body, to appoint to two senior posts within the organisation without requiring Welsh language skills, and that was by a recruitment agency from Leamington Spa. There is a consensus in favour of internal administration through the medium of Welsh in the public sector in Gwynedd, and it’s a matter of social justice that Welsh should be maintained as the language of work, and a living language, in this part of the world. As I saw all of that being under threat back in 2014, I resigned from the board.
Now, it’s become apparent that this body once again is recruiting senior officials, with the assistance of an agency from Birmingham this time. And the post of deputy chief executive, with a salary of £105,000, has been advertised without any requirement in terms of the ability to communicate through the medium of Welsh, only an 'understanding' of Welsh and the culture of north Wales, whatever that means.
Mae gyda chi dri chwestiwn. A wnewch chi ofyn un ohonyn nhw yn weddol o sydyn?
You have three questions. Will you ask one of them relatively quickly, please?
A wnewch chi ymyrryd i sicrhau bod un o gonglfeini eich strategaeth miliwn o siaradwyr, o ran y gweithlu, yn cael ei chynnal, drwy anfon llythyr cyhoeddus i erfyn ar Cartrefi Cymunedol Gwynedd i ailystyried?
Will you intervene to ensure that one of the cornerstones of your million Welsh speakers strategy, in terms of the workforce, is maintained, by sending a public letter to urge Cartrefi Cymunedol Gwynedd to reconsider?
Wel, dwi'n meddwl bod hwn yn bwnc sensitif tu hwnt, a dwi'n meddwl bod yn rhaid i ni fod yn ofalus ein bod ni ddim yn cau'r cyfle off i ni alluogi mwy o bobl i gael y cyfle i ddysgu Cymraeg. A dwi'n meddwl, os oes yna ymrwymiad i bobl ddysgu Cymraeg pan maen nhw'n dod mewn i swydd, mi ddylen ni fod yn annog hynny hefyd. Felly, dwi yn meddwl bod rhaid i ni gymryd y cyfle i sicrhau ein bod ni ddim yn disgrimineiddio gormod yn erbyn pobl sydd ambell waith, efallai, gyda'r sgiliau cywir o ran datblygu tai ac ati, ond efallai ddim gyda'r sgiliau ieithyddol rŷch chi yn ystyried sydd mor hanfodol.
I think this a very sensitive subject, and I think we need to be careful that we don’t close the opportunity to enable more people to have the opportunity to learn Welsh. I think that if there is a commitment to learn Welsh when they come into post, then we should be encouraging that as well. So, I do think that we have to take the opportunity to ensure that we don’t discriminate too much against people who sometimes perhaps have the correct skills in terms of developing housing, but don’t have the linguistic skills that you consider so essential.
Dydy'r swydd ddisgrifiad ddim yn sôn am ddysgu Cymraeg; dydy o ddim yn sôn ei bod hi'n ddymunol, dim ond 'dirnadaeth'—sut bynnag dŷch chi'n mynd i fod yn edrych ar hynny. Y gwir amdani ydy bod gennych chi bwerau i osod safonau ar gymdeithasau tai. Ac yn 2015, yn dilyn y ffrae wreiddiol, fe wnaeth Comisiynydd y Gymraeg edrych mewn i'r holl sefyllfa, a dod i'r casgliad—a dwi'n dyfynnu allan o'r adroddiad wnaethpwyd ar y pryd—bod yr
'achos hwn wedi arddangos yn glir nad yw'r drefn bresennol o ofyn i ddarparwyr tai cymdeithasol weithredu Cynlluniau Iaith Gymraeg gwirfoddol yn ddigonol'.
Ac roedd hi'n glir bryd hynny, nôl yn 2015, bod angen i'r Llywodraeth gyflwyno safonau ar gyfer cymdeithasau tai—bedair blynedd yn ôl. Mae'r oedi yma yn golygu ein bod ni yn yr union yr un sefyllfa eto. Mae'r gwaith o wneud y rheoliadau drafft wedi cael ei gyflwyno i chi ar gyfer cymdeithasau tai. Mae o'n eistedd ar eich desg chi. Wnewch chi ddweud wrthym ni heddiw, felly, pryd fydd yna safonau ar gyfer cymdeithasau tai?
The job description doesn’t even mention learning Welsh; it doesn’t mention that it’s desirable, it’s only an 'understanding'—however you interpret that. The truth of the matter is that you do have powers to impose standards on housing associations. And in 2015, following the original fallout, the Welsh Language Commissioner looked into the whole situation, and came to the conclusion—and I quote from the report drawn up at that time—that
'This case has clearly demonstrated that the current procedure of asking providers of social housing to implement voluntary Welsh Language Schemes is not sufficient'.
It was clear at that time, back in 2015, that the Government needed to introduce standards for housing associations. That was four years ago, and this delay means that we are in exactly the same situation now. The work of making draft regulations has been presented to you for housing associations. It is sitting on your desk. So, will you tell us today when we will have standards in place for housing associations?
Wel, dwi'n meddwl bod yn rhaid i ni fod yn ofalus iawn i beidio â chymysgu'r ddau beth. Dwi yn meddwl y byddwn ni'n symud ymlaen â chynlluniau iaith—neu safonau iaith—ar gyfer cymdeithasau tai. Allaf fi ddim rhoi amserlen glir i chi, achos ein bod ni yng nghanol Brexit, ac yn anffodus mae hwnna yn sugno darpariaeth ddeddfwriaethol y Llywodraeth, felly ychydig iawn sydd ar ôl o ran symud pethau ymlaen yn ddeddfwriaethol mewn adrannau eraill. Ond mae'n rhaid i ni fod yn ofalus ein bod ni ddim yn cymysgu rhwng rhoi safonau ar gynllunio ieithyddol y tu fewn i gymdeithasau tai a mynnu bod pob un y tu fewn i'r mudiad wedyn yn siarad Cymraeg. Mae hwnna yn gam mawr iawn i'w wneud.
I think we need to be very careful not to mix both issues. I think we will be moving forward with language schemes—or language standards—for housing associations. I can’t provide you with a clear timetable, because we are in the middle of Brexit and, unfortunately, that is taking up the legislative provision of the Government, and there’s not much left in terms of moving things forward on a legislative basis in other departments. However, we need to be careful that we don’t mix up between standards on language planning within housing associations and saying that everybody within those organisations has to speak Welsh. That is a very big step.
Dwi wedi eich clywed chi'n sôn am Brexit o'r blaen fel rheswm dros beidio ag ailgychwyn y rhaglen o gyflwyno safonau ar gyfer cyrff newydd. Os rhywbeth, mae bygythiad Brexit yn ei gwneud hi'n fwy o flaenoriaeth i warchod ein hawliau iaith ni.
Mi wnaethoch chi gyhoeddi eich cynllun gweithredu strategaeth miliwn ar gyfer 2019-20 ychydig ddyddiau yn ôl. Ac roedd hyn yn gyfle i chi gadarnhau eich cynlluniau a'r gweithredu y gallwn ni edrych ymlaen atyn nhw dros y flwyddyn i ddod rŵan bod bygythiad Bil y Gymraeg wedi diflannu. Ond, yn anffodus—a dŷch chi wedi ailadrodd hynny eto heddiw—does yna ddim goleuni ar amserlen bendant ar gyfer mwy o safonau. Heb os, mae beth dŷn ni wedi ei brofi heddiw yn dangos ein bod ni eu hangen nhw.
Mi wna i ofyn i chi eto: fedrwch chi roi syniad pryd y gall gweithwyr Cymru a'r cyhoedd gael sicrwydd am eu hawliau o ran y Gymraeg ac a wnewch chi ymrwymo felly i gyhoeddi amserlen ar gyfer gosod safonau ar gyfer cymdeithasau tai ynghyd â'r holl sectorau sy'n weddill yn ystod tymor yr haf, a hynny ar ôl inni ddychwelyd ar ôl y toriad?
I’ve heard you talk of Brexit in the past as a reason for not recommencing the programme of introducing standards for new organisations. If anything, the threat of Brexit makes it even more of a priority to safeguard our language rights.
You published your action plan for a million Welsh speakers for 2019-20 a few days ago. And this was an opportunity for you to confirm your plans and the action that we should be looking forward to over the next 12 months now that the threat of the Welsh language Bill has been withdrawn. But unfortunately—and you’ve repeated that again today—you’ve shed no light in terms of a timetable for the introduction of more standards. Without doubt, what we’ve experienced today demonstrates that we need them.
I will ask you again: can you give us some idea when workers in Wales and the public can have an assurance about their rights in terms of the Welsh language, and will you commit, therefore, to publishing a timetable for imposing standards on housing associations, as well as all of the remaining sectors, during the summer term, once we’ve returned after recess?
Wel, rŷm ni yn bwriadu bwrw ymlaen gyda rhoi safonau newydd ymlaen. Mi ges i air ddoe gyda phennaeth Dŵr Cymru a gwneud yn siŵr ei fod e'n deall ein bod ni'n bwriadu symud ymlaen gyda safonau yn y maes dŵr. Felly, dyna fydd y cam cyntaf ac wedyn byddwn ni'n edrych ar y sectorau eraill ar ôl hynny.
Well, we do intend to proceed with bringing new standards forward. I had a word yesterday with the head of Dŵr Cymru, and made sure that he understands that we intend to move forward with standards in the water sector. That will be the first step and then we will look at other sectors after that.
Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Suzy Davies.
Conservative spokesperson, Suzy Davies.
Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Weinidog, yn eich cynllun gweithredu 'Cymraeg 2050' ar gyfer 2019-20, a lansiwyd yr wythnos diwethaf, rydych yn cyfeirio at argymhellion a wnaed mewn gwerthusiad annibynnol o'r rhaglen Cymraeg i Blant. Gobeithio y byddwch yn cadarnhau y byddwch yn cyhoeddi'r adolygiad rywbryd yn fuan. Sut ydych chi'n rhagweld y bydd swyddogion Cymraeg i Blant yn cymryd rhan yn y gwaith o ddatblygu ac adolygu y WESPs, cyfarfodydd fforymau iaith lleol a chynllunio rhanbarthol y Mudiad Meithrin? A sut y clywir llais y plentyn yn y broses hon yn unol â'r confensiwn hawliau plant? A gaf i ofyn hefyd—? A oes risg fod rhai cynghorau yn parhau i ddibynnu ar grwpiau allanol tebyg—mae mentrau iaith yn esiampl arall—i gyflawni eu dyletswyddau eu hunain o dan safonau?
Thank you very much, Llywydd. Minister, in your 'Cymraeg 2050' action plan for 2019-20, which was launched last week, you make reference to recommendations made by an independent evaluation of the Cymraeg for Kids programme. I hope you will confirm that you will publish that review at some point soon. How do you anticipate that officials within Cymraeg for Kids will be involved with the developments and revision of the Welsh in education strategic plans, Welsh language fora at a local level, and regional planning for Mudiad Meithrin? How will the child’s voice be heard in this process in accordance with the convention on the rights of the child? May I also ask—? Is there a risk that some councils continue to rely on external groups such as the mentrau iaith in order to comply with their own responsibilities under standards?
Diolch. Dwi'n meddwl, o ran Cymraeg i Blant, y byddwn ni'n ymgymryd â sicrhau ein bod ni'n deall os yw hwnna wedi bod yn llwyddiant. Ac, wrth gwrs, mi wna i ymgymryd â chyhoeddi'r canlyniadau unwaith y bydd y rheini gyda ni.
Rŷch chi'n eithaf iawn o ran y WESPs. Beth rŷm ni'n trio ei wneud nawr yw symud ymlaen o'r camau rŷm ni wedi eu cymryd yn y gorffennol i ganolbwyntio ar ysgolion. Ac mae dealltwriaeth gref nawr bod angen inni sicrhau bod plant, cyn mynd i'r ysgol—bod gyda ni strategaeth ar gyfer hynny. Achos, wrth gwrs, dyna'r ffordd rŷm ni'n cael plant i mewn i'r ysgol yn y lle cyntaf. Rwy'n credu ei fod yn anodd, o ran plant ifanc iawn, i gael llais y plentyn yn rhan o ddatblygu'r WESPs yma, ond dwi eisiau eich sicrhau chi ein bod ni'n mynd i ail-lunio gweithgaredd y WESPs i sicrhau bod plant ifanc—rŷm ni'n gobeithio canolbwyntio ar hynny fel y trywydd y byddwn ni eisiau i'r cynghorau ei gymryd yn y dyfodol.
Thank you. I think in terms of Cymraeg for Kids, we will be undertaking to understand if that has been a success. And I will undertake to bring the results to you once we have them.
You’re right in terms of the WESPs. What we are trying to do now is to move forward from the steps that we’ve taken in the past to concentrate on schools. There is a strong understanding now that there is a need for us to ensure that children, before they go to school—that we have a strategy for that. Because, of course, that is the way that we get children into school in the first place. I think it is difficult, in terms of very young children, to have the voice of the child in the development of these WESPs, but I want to assure you that we are going to redesign the WESPs activity to ensure that young children—we hope that we focus on that as a route that we would want the councils to follow in the future.
Diolch am yr ymateb. Wrth gwrs, rwy'n derbyn y ffaith bod plant ifanc iawn ddim yn gallu cyfrannu lot i'r broses yma, ond wrth gwrs mae gyda nhw rieni hefyd gyda syniadau. Dyw hi ddim wedi ymateb i'r cwestiwn chwaith am sut y mae rhai cynghorau yn dechrau dibynnu ar grwpiau allanol i'w helpu nhw gyda'u dyletswyddau mewnol, achos mae'n debyg fod gormod ohonyn nhw yn gwneud hynny yn lle trio creu mwy o gapasiti y tu mewn i'r cynghorau eu hunain, yn y gweithlu, ynglŷn â'u gallu Cymraeg.
Jest i symud ymlaen nawr, mae'r cynllun gweithredu yn dweud hefyd y bydd y rhaglen Cymraeg Byd Busnes eleni yn canolbwyntio ar dwristiaeth, bwyd a diod a manwerthu. Mae Cymru yn aml yn cael ei chymharu'n wael â'r Alban o ran cyfleu ein cynnig i dwristiaid yn glir. Rydym yn dal i danbrisio ein pwynt gwerthu unigryw, sef ein bod ni'n genedl o ddwy iaith. Mae'n gwahaniaethu Cymru oddi wrth rannau eraill o'r Deyrnas Unedig. Sut y bydd eich swyddogion Cymraeg Byd Busnes yn gweithio gyda busnesau sy'n rhan o'n heconomi ymwelwyr i fanteisio ar y pwynt gwerthu unigryw hwnnw er budd ein cymunedau Cymraeg, ac fel esiampl i ardaloedd twristaidd eraill di-Gymraeg, lle gallai fod yn anodd i'w perswadio am y gwerth ychwanegol mae'r iaith yn ei gynnig?
Thank you for that response. I do, of course, accept the fact that very young children can’t contribute much to this process, but, of course, they have parents too who will have their own ideas. And you haven’t answered the question either on how some councils are starting to rely on external groups to help them, as they would put it, with their internal duties and responsibilities. Because it appears to me that too many of them are doing that, rather than trying to generate more capacity within the councils themselves, within their workforce, in relation to the Welsh language.
Just to move on, the action plan also says that the Welsh in Business programme this year will focus on tourism, food and drink and retail, and Wales is often compared in a poor light with Scotland in terms of conveying our tourism offer clearly. We still undervalue our unique selling point, namely that we are a bilingual nation. It differentiates Wales from other parts of the UK in that regard. So, how will your Welsh in Business officials work with businesses that are part of our visitor economy to take advantage of that unique selling point for the benefit of Welsh-speaking communities and as an example to other non-Welsh-speaking tourist areas, where it could be difficult to persuade those in terms of what the Welsh language has to offer?
Diolch. Rŷch chi'n eithaf reit; mae'n rhaid inni fod yn wyliadwrus—jest i ateb yr un diwethaf wnes i ddim ateb y tro diwethaf—o ran dibynnu yn ormodol ar grwpiau allanol i ymgymryd â phethau sy'n ymwneud â'r iaith Gymraeg. Dwi'n meddwl ei fod e'n bwysig ein bod ni i gyd yn datblygu'r gallu yna yn fewnol ac, wrth gwrs, gall cynghorau ddysgu oddi wrth ei gilydd. Mae rhai yn lot fwy ar y blaen na rhai eraill. Rŷm ni wedi gweld bod Heddlu Gogledd Cymru, er enghraifft, wedi gwneud gwaith arbennig yn datblygu'r iaith Gymraeg.
O ran Cymraeg Byd Busnes, ddoe fe wnes i siarad â'r grŵp trawsbleidiol a oedd yn gofyn yn union yr un cwestiwn ag ŷch chi wedi ei ofyn nawr, sef sut rŷm ni'n defnyddio'r ffaith bod gyda ni iaith unigryw i werthu ein gwlad. Beth sydd wedi digwydd eisoes yw bod ein brandio ni wedi newid yn llwyr yn ddiweddar. Rŷm ni'n defnyddio'r iaith Gymraeg fel rhan o'r brandio rhyngwladol fel ein bod ni yn sefyll allan. Ac, wrth gwrs, bydd y swyddogion sy'n gweithredu o ran Cymraeg mewn busnes yn gallu rhoi lot o help i'r rheini sy'n gweithio yn y maes twristiaeth. Er enghraifft, mae lot ohonyn nhw mewn restaurants ac ati ac rŷm ni'n gallu eu helpu nhw i gyfieithu eu bwydlen nhw i sicrhau bod yna allu iddyn nhw roi'r gwasanaeth yna trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Mae hwnna hefyd yn gwneud iddyn nhw sefyll allan, ac mae pobl yn hoffi hynny, wrth gwrs. Dwi'n meddwl bod yna rai ardaloedd lle mae hynny'n mynd i weithio'n well, ond dwi'n gobeithio beth welwn ni, fel ŷch chi wedi cyfeirio ato, yw bod pobl eraill yn deall ac yn dysgu oddi wrth y rhai sy'n cymryd y camau cyntaf yna.
Thank you. You’re quite right; there is a need to be careful—just to answer the last question—in terms of relying too much on external groups to undertake things relating to the Welsh language. I do think it’s important that we all develop that ability internally, and, of course, councils can learn from each other. Some are further forward than others. We've seen, for example, that North Wales Police have done extraordinary work in developing the Welsh language.
In terms of Welsh in Business, yesterday I spoke with a cross-party group that were asking exactly the same question that you’ve asked now, namely how do we use the fact that we have a unique language to sell our country. What has happened already is that our branding has completely changed recently. We use the Welsh language as part of the international branding so that we do stand out. And, of course, officials who are working on Welsh in Business will be able to provide a lot of support to those who work in the tourism sector. For example, many of them are in restaurants and so forth. We can help them to translate their menus to ensure that they’re able to provide that service through the medium of Welsh, and that makes them stand out, and people like that. Of course, I think there are some areas where that is going to work better than others, but I hope that what we’ll see, as you referred to, is that other people understand and learn from those who are taking those initial steps.
Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw. Gobeithio bod peth o'r gwaith yn dechrau cael tipyn bach o lwyddiant gyda beth sy'n digwydd yn barod, ond hoffwn i weld mwy o gynnydd yn y llwyddiant yna yn y dyfodol.
Fis diwethaf, pan wnes i ofyn ichi am linell gymorth gyfieithu Llywodraeth Cymru i fusnesau bach, dywedoch chi wrthyf fi fod llawer iawn o waith yn cael ei wneud yn y maes hwn a bod y rhan fwyaf o'r gwaith hwnnw yn cael ei wneud gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Mae eich cynllun gweithredu yn dweud y bydd ymgyrch farchnata i annog busnesau i ddefnyddio'r llinell gymorth gyfieithu hon a bydd Llywodraeth Cymru—quote—yn cydweithio â Chomisiynydd y Gymraeg ar hyn. Manylion newydd yw'r rheini ers mis diwethaf. A ydych chi'n golygu y bydd y comisiynydd yn helpu i hyrwyddo'r llinell gymorth? Achos roeddwn i'n meddwl taw mentrau iaith oedd yn gyfrifol am weithio gyda busnesau bach. Neu a ydych chi'n ystyried trosglwyddo'r holl gyfrifoldeb dros redeg y llinell gymorth i swyddfa'r comisiynydd? Os felly, a allwch chi gadarnhau lle ym Mesur y Gymraeg (Cymru) 2011 y mae gan y comisiynydd y pŵer i gynnig y gwasanaeth hwn, a faint o gyllid ychwanegol y byddwch yn ei roi i'r comisiynydd newydd i gwrdd â'r cyfrifoldeb newydd hwn?
Thank you for that response. I hope that some of this is starting to bear fruit, but I would like to see more progress made in future.
Last month, when I asked you about the Welsh Government translation helpline for small businesses, you told me that much work was being done in this area and that most of that work was being done by the Welsh Government. Your action plan states that there will be a marketing campaign to encourage businesses to use the translation helpline and that the Welsh Government—quote—will collaborate with the Welsh Language Commissioner on this. That’s a new detail since last month. Does that mean that the commissioner will help you to promote the helpline? Because I thought it was the mentrau iaith that were responsible for working with small businesses. Or are you considering transferring the whole responsibility for running this helpline to the commissioner’s office? If so, can you confirm where in the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011 the commissioner has the power to provide this service, and how much additional funding will you provide to the new commissioner to meet this new responsibility?
Wel, ar hyn o bryd, beth rŷm ni'n gobeithio ei wneud yw sicrhau bod y llinell gymorth yna yn dechrau tu fewn i Lywodraeth Cymru. Wrth gwrs, mae'r ymgyrch farchnata yna—bydd hwnna'n dechrau cyn bo hir. Ond mae gyda ni gomisiynydd newydd sydd wedi dechrau'r wythnos yma, a dwi'n gobeithio y bydd y cydweithrediad yna rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru a swyddfa'r comisiynydd yn rhoi'r cyfle inni sicrhau ein bod ni lot yn gliriach ynglŷn â phwy sy'n gwneud beth o ran busnesau. Dwi'n meddwl bod yna le inni geisio gweld a oes yna ffordd inni gydweithredu yn well. Dwi ddim yn meddwl bod dim byd yn y Mesur yn atal y comisiynydd rhag mynd i mewn i'r maes yma, ond beth rŷm ni wedi bod yn poeni amdano yn y gorffennol yw'r ffaith bod y comisiynydd wedi bod yn canolbwyntio gormod, efallai, ar y safonau ac ar blismona yn hytrach nag ar hybu ac ar hyrwyddo. Byddwn i'n gobeithio yn y dyfodol bydd yna gamau yn cael eu cymryd i fynd i mewn i'r maes yma'n fwy gan y comisiynydd.
At the moment, what we’re hoping to do is to ensure that that helpline starts within Welsh Government. Of course, that marketing campaign will start soon. But, of course, we do have a new commissioner who has started in post this week, and I do hope that the collaboration between Welsh Government and the commissioner’s office will provide us with an opportunity to ensure that we’re much clearer in terms of who does what in terms of business. I think there is room for us to try and see whether there is a way for us to work together better. I don’t think there’s anything in the Measure that stops the commissioner from entering this field, but what we’ve been concerned about in the past is the fact that the commissioner has been focusing too much, perhaps, on the standards, rather than promoting, and we would hope, in the future, that steps will be taken to go into this field more.
Llefarydd UKIP, Gareth Bennett.
UKIP spokesperson, Gareth Bennett.
Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, we've had a couple of debates recently about rugby, which is always an interesting subject. However, the cricket season starts in a week's time, so today I wanted to turn my attention to that. Now, as you'll be aware, Glamorgan have encountered some financial difficulty in recent years. Of course, they agreed a deal with the English cricket board not to host test matches between 2020 and 2024 in exchange for a compensation package that has helped their financial position somewhat. But what can the Welsh Government do to ensure that international cricket is brought to Wales over the next five years and beyond?
Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, rydym wedi cael ambell i ddadl yn ddiweddar am rygbi, sydd bob amser yn bwnc diddorol. Fodd bynnag, mae'r tymor criced yn dechrau ymhen wythnos, felly rwy’n awyddus i roi sylw i hynny heddiw. Nawr, fel y gwyddoch, mae Morgannwg wedi wynebu anawsterau ariannol dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Wrth gwrs, fe ddaethant i gytundeb â bwrdd criced Lloegr i beidio â chynnal gemau prawf rhwng 2020 a 2024 yn gyfnewid am becyn iawndal sydd wedi helpu eu sefyllfa ariannol i raddau. Ond beth y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud i sicrhau bod criced rhyngwladol yn dod i Gymru dros y pum mlynedd nesaf a thu hwnt?
Thank you very much for the question, and, indeed, I am a Glamorgan supporter, since I was first taken to St Helen's, not quite understanding what was going on there, about five years old at the time. What I will do is I will undertake to have a meeting with Cricket Wales and a discussion with the Glamorgan cricket club, and I will have an opportunity to do that fairly soon as the season is starting. But I will also undertake, if necessary, to meet formally with the England and Wales Cricket Board, in relation to the decisions made about test matches, because I appreciate the value of such events to Cardiff and the important status of Sophia Gardens as the national home of cricket in Wales.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am eich cwestiwn, ac yn wir, rwy'n cefnogi Morgannwg ers y tro cyntaf i mi fynd i faes San Helen, heb ddeall beth yn union oedd yn digwydd yno, a minnau tua phum mlwydd oed ar y pryd. Yr hyn rwyf am ei wneud yw ymrwymo i gael cyfarfod gyda Criced Cymru, a thrafodaeth gyda chlwb criced Morgannwg, a byddaf yn cael cyfle i wneud hynny cyn bo hir wrth i'r tymor ddechrau. Ond byddaf hefyd yn ymrwymo, os bydd angen, i gyfarfod yn ffurfiol â Bwrdd Criced Cymru a Lloegr, mewn perthynas â'r penderfyniadau a wneir ynghylch gemau prawf, gan fy mod yn sylweddoli gwerth digwyddiadau o'r fath i Gaerdydd a statws pwysig Gerddi Sophia fel cartref cenedlaethol criced yng Nghymru.
Yes. Thanks very much for that commitment, Minister, and I'm sure meeting with the English cricket board would be a good idea, and I look forward to a positive outcome from that.
I note that, in 2018-19, the Welsh Government allocated £600,000 to Cricket Wales to support both community and high-performance cricket across Wales. Of course, the popularity of cricket has grown amongst people of all ages in recent years, but particularly amongst young people. I see from Cricket Wales's board minutes that a number of the board members have been working with Glamorgan cricket club to progress various initiatives, with the focus on increasing the number of people involved in cricket from the current figure of 20,000 to 40,000, which is an ambitious target. Can you tell us a little more about what Cricket Wales is doing to help develop the sport at grass-roots level, and do you think this target of doubling the number of people involved in cricket can be achieved?
Iawn. Diolch yn fawr iawn am eich ymrwymiad, Weinidog, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddai cyfarfod â bwrdd criced Lloegr yn syniad da, ac edrychaf ymlaen at ganlyniad cadarnhaol yn sgil hynny.
Nodaf fod Llywodraeth Cymru, yn 2018-19, wedi dyrannu £600,000 i Criced Cymru i gefnogi criced cymunedol a chriced pherfformiad uchel ledled Cymru. Wrth gwrs, mae poblogrwydd criced wedi tyfu ymhlith pobl o bob oed dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, ond yn enwedig ymhlith pobl ifanc. Gwelaf o gofnodion bwrdd Criced Cymru fod nifer o aelodau'r bwrdd wedi bod yn gweithio gyda chlwb criced Morgannwg i ddatblygu gwahanol fentrau, gyda'r ffocws ar gynyddu nifer y bobl sy'n ymwneud â chriced o'r ffigur presennol o 20,000 i 40,000, sy'n darged uchelgeisiol. A allwch ddweud ychydig mwy wrthym am yr hyn y mae Criced Cymru yn ei wneud i helpu i ddatblygu'r gamp ar lawr gwlad, ac a ydych yn credu y gellir cyflawni'r targed hwn o ddyblu nifer y bobl sy'n ymwneud â chriced?
Well, I hope it can. Obviously, it's a matter of timescale, but, again, I will ensure that, in my future discussions with Cricket Wales this season, I will ask them for a clearer indication of the likely implementation of such a target. As far as I'm concerned, it's always important to increase the spread of interest in sport. We have our major sports, which are no longer limited to the traditional seasons in terms of football and rugby football and netball, which is an increasingly important sport, and I look forward very much this week to the international women's football event, in which I shall be supporting the Welsh women's team at Rodney Parade in Newport, which has become their traditional venue. But I will make sure that, when I have these discussions, I will ensure that the role of cricket, and indeed the role of, potentially, other summer sports, will be matters that I will discuss, and through Sport Wales, of course.
Wel, rwy'n gobeithio y gellir ei gyflawni. Yn amlwg, mae'n fater o amserlen, ond unwaith eto, byddaf yn sicrhau, yn fy nhrafodaethau gyda Criced Cymru sydd i ddod y tymor hwn, y byddaf yn gofyn iddynt am arwydd cliriach ynglŷn â gweithredu targed o'r fath. O'm rhan i, mae cynyddu diddordeb mewn chwaraeon bob amser yn bwysig. Mae gennym ein prif chwaraeon, nad ydynt bellach wedi'u cyfyngu i'r tymhorau traddodiadol o ran pêl-droed, rygbi a phêl-rwyd, sy'n gamp gynyddol bwysig, ac edrychaf ymlaen yn fawr iawn yr wythnos hon at y digwyddiad pêl-droed menywod rhyngwladol, pan fyddaf yn cefnogi tîm menywod Cymru yn Rodney Parade yng Nghasnewydd, sef eu lleoliad traddodiadol bellach. Ond rwyf am wneud yn siŵr, pan fyddaf yn cael y trafodaethau hyn, y byddaf yn sicrhau y bydd rôl criced, ac yn wir, rôl chwaraeon haf eraill o bosibl, yn faterion y byddaf yn eu trafod, a thrwy Chwaraeon Cymru, wrth gwrs.
Yes, of course. It's important to foster interest in many sports, and I'm sure we all wish the Welsh women's team well in their endeavours.
The ECB have recently announced a new city-based T20 competition, if I can return to the cricket subject. It is good to see that Cardiff is one of the host venues. One of the problems I think Glamorgan have in appealing to people from all across Wales, though, is that the majority of the games are played now at Sophia Gardens in Cardiff. I know that there are efforts by Glamorgan to take games around the country. They do have their outgrounds in St Helen's, where, of course, you began watching Glamorgan, as you stated earlier, and also Colwyn Bay, where they play county games. What do you think the Welsh Government can do to ensure that cricket in Wales is brought to a wider audience, not just in terms of numbers, but geographically as well?
Ie, wrth gwrs. Mae'n bwysig meithrin diddordeb mewn llawer o chwaraeon, ac rwy'n siŵr fod pob un ohonom yn dymuno'n dda i dîm menywod Cymru gyda’u hymdrechion.
Yn ddiweddar, cyhoeddodd Bwrdd Criced Lloegr gystadleuaeth T20 newydd i ddinasoedd, os caf ddychwelyd at griced. Mae'n dda gweld bod Caerdydd yn un o'r lleoliadau a fydd yn cynnal y digwyddiad. Fodd bynnag, un o'r problemau sydd gan Forgannwg o ran apelio at bobl o bob cwr o Gymru yn fy marn i, yw bod y rhan fwyaf o'r gemau bellach yn cael eu chwarae yng Ngerddi Sophia yng Nghaerdydd. Gwn fod Morgannwg wedi ymdrechu i chwarae gemau o gwmpas y wlad. Mae ganddynt faes yn San Helen, lle dechreuoch chi wylio Morgannwg, wrth gwrs, fel y dywedasoch yn gynharach, a hefyd ym Mae Colwyn, lle maent yn chwarae gemau sirol. Beth y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud yn eich barn chi i sicrhau bod criced yng Nghymru yn cyrraedd cynulleidfa ehangach, nid yn unig o ran niferoedd, ond yn ddaearyddol hefyd?
I certainly endorse the importance of geographical spread, and, again, clearly, I am a regular attender when there are Glamorgan matches at Llandrillo-yn-Rhos, but I would be the first to admit that that is not an adequate ground, because the boundary, unfortunately, is a bit close to the wicket, to the pitch. But I will ensure that those issues are discussed when I have my discussions with Glamorgan, and I'll take some further advice as to what seems to be commercially possible, without making any immediate commitments as to how we should do that. But, obviously, the geographical distribution of cricket, as indeed the distribution of other sports in the north, brings back the whole question of the future of Parc Eirias, because there are issues here where I think we are missing out on a large audience in the north of Wales, but also a substantial audience that would love to travel from the north-west of England into north Wales for their sport venues.
Yn sicr, rwy’n cydnabod pwysigrwydd cyrhaeddiad daearyddol, ac eto, yn amlwg, rwy'n mynychu gemau Morgannwg yn Llandrillo-yn-Rhos yn rheolaidd, ond fi fyddai'r cyntaf i gyfaddef nad yw’n faes addas, gan fod y ffin, yn anffodus, braidd yn agos at y wiced, at y llain. Ond byddaf yn sicrhau bod y materion hynny’n cael eu trafod pan fyddaf yn cael fy nhrafodaethau â Morgannwg, a byddaf yn ceisio cyngor pellach ynghylch yr hyn sydd i weld yn fasnachol bosibl, heb wneud unrhyw ymrwymiadau ar unwaith ynglŷn â sut y dylem wneud hynny. Ond yn amlwg, mae dosbarthiad daearyddol criced, yn ogystal â dosbarthiad chwaraeon eraill yn y gogledd yn wir, yn dod a'r holl gwestiwn ynghylch dyfodol Parc Eirias yn ei ôl, gan fod materion yma lle credaf ein bod yn colli cynulleidfa fawr yng ngogledd Cymru, yn ogystal â chynulleidfa sylweddol a fyddai wrth ei bodd yn teithio o ogledd-orllewin Lloegr i leoliadau chwaraeon yng ngogledd Cymru.
3. Pa gynlluniau sydd gan y Gweinidog i adeiladu ar lwyddiant y rhaglen Cymru o Blaid Affrica Llywodraeth Cymru? OAQ53727
3. What plans does the Minister have to build on the success of the Welsh Government's Wales for Africa programme? OAQ53727
I am delighted that Wales for Africa is within my portfolio and that so many people are actively engaged in making Wales and the world a better place. The programme will form a key component of the international strategy consultation. I'm considering a response to the international strategy from the voluntary sector on how we can drive forward with this aspect of the Welsh Government's work.
Rwyf wrth fy modd fod Cymru o Blaid Affrica yn rhan o fy mhortffolio a bod cynifer o bobl yn cymryd rhan weithredol yn y gwaith o wneud Cymru a'r byd yn lle gwell. Bydd y rhaglen yn rhan allweddol o'r ymgynghoriad ar y strategaeth ryngwladol. Rwy'n ystyried ymateb i'r strategaeth ryngwladol gan y sector gwirfoddol ynghylch sut y gallwn fwrw ymlaen â'r agwedd hon ar waith Llywodraeth Cymru.
Thanks for that response, Minister. I very much agree, and I think there's widespread agreement across the Chamber that this is a very worthwhile programme that delivers great benefits for sub-Saharan Africa and, indeed, for Wales. One important aspect of it is the community-to-community links. I think we have a very impressive number of those in Wales, but obviously they could be added to, Minister, and the existing ones could be deepened and strengthened. So, given the importance of opening up Wales to the world and the world to Wales, and the significant part that these links play within that ambition, will you look at improving the availability of resources, of funding, to build the number of links and, as I said, strengthen and deepen those that currently exist?
Diolch am eich ymateb, Weinidog. Cytunaf yn llwyr, a chredaf y ceir cytundeb cyffredinol ar draws y Siambr fod hon yn rhaglen werth chweil sy'n darparu manteision sylweddol i Affrica Is-Sahara, ac yn wir, i Gymru. Un agwedd bwysig ar hyn yw'r cysylltiadau rhwng cymunedau. Credaf fod gennym nifer calonogol iawn ohonynt yng Nghymru, ond yn amlwg, gellid ychwanegu atynt, Weinidog, a gellid dwysáu a chryfhau'r rhai sy'n bodoli'n barod. Felly, o ystyried pwysigrwydd agor Cymru i'r byd a'r byd i Gymru, a'r rhan arwyddocaol y mae'r cysylltiadau hyn yn ei chwarae wrth gyflawni’r uchelgais honno, a wnewch chi ystyried gwella argaeledd adnoddau a chyllid er mwyn cynyddu nifer y cysylltiadau, ac fel y dywedais, er mwyn cryfhau a dwysáu’r rheini sy'n bodoli eisoes?
Well, it's clear that the most successful strategies have been ones where actually it is about community to community, and this is a great example where actually people are just getting on with it, I think. PONT is a great example of that; some of the work that's done in Lesotho really demonstrates how building those communities and people-to-people relationships really gives a depth to the Wales for Africa programme.
One of the things that we need to do is to just have much greater clarity on who is doing what, where, so I've already commissioned a piece of work to see how we map that, so that we're all aware of what's going on before we start. You're absolutely right—resources are always going to be an issue here, but what's clear is, with the very small resources we are giving to this, they are having a major impact. But we can also be creative in some of the other ways that we help. So, the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs, for example, recently donated a fisheries protection vessel to the Government of Liberia. It's a real issue there—how do people protect their fishing stocks—and I think that was a great contribution we can give. It wasn't money, but it was a boat, and we did that with the World Bank and with other organisations. I think we can be really proud of some of the work we're doing.
Wel, mae'n amlwg mai'r strategaethau mwyaf llwyddiannus yw'r rhai sy'n ymwneud â'r cysylltiad rhwng cymunedau, ac mae hon yn enghraifft wych o ble mae pobl yn mynd i’r afael â hynny, yn fy marn i. Mae PONT yn enghraifft wych o hynny; mae peth o'r gwaith a wneir yn Lesotho yn dangos o ddifrif sut y mae adeiladu'r cymunedau hynny a'r cysylltiadau hynny rhwng pobl yn rhoi dyfnder i raglen Cymru o Blaid Affrica.
Un o'r pethau y mae angen i ni eu gwneud yw sicrhau y ceir mwy o eglurder o ran pwy sy'n gwneud beth ac ym mhle, felly rwyf eisoes wedi comisiynu gwaith i weld sut i fynd ati i fapio hynny, er mwyn sicrhau bod pob un ohonom yn ymwybodol o'r hyn sy'n digwydd cyn inni ddechrau. Rydych yn llygad eich lle—bydd adnoddau bob amser yn broblem yn hyn o beth, ond yr hyn sy'n glir yw bod yr ychydig iawn o adnoddau a ddarparwn ar gyfer hyn yn cael cryn effaith. Ond gallwn hefyd fod yn greadigol gyda rhai o'r ffyrdd eraill rydym yn rhoi cymorth. Felly, yn ddiweddar, rhoddodd Gweinidog yr Amgylchedd, Ynni a Materion Gwledig gwch ar gyfer amddiffyn pysgodfeydd i Lywodraeth Liberia. Mae'n broblem wirioneddol yno—sut y mae pobl yn amddiffyn eu stociau pysgota—a chredaf fod hwnnw'n gyfraniad gwych y gallwn ei roi. Nid arian ydoedd, ond llong, a gwnaethom hynny gyda Banc y Byd a chyda sefydliadau eraill. Credaf y gallwn fod yn falch iawn o rywfaint o'r gwaith a wnawn.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) i’r Gadair.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.
I think I'm fast becoming my party's Africa champion, Minister. I seem to always be asking you about Africa or Love Zimbabwe in my questions to you. Can I concur with the comments that John Griffiths has just made? As you know, I do have links with the Love Zimbabwe charity, which has strong links with the town of Abergavenny. As I told you last week, Martha Holman, one of the volunteers, has her British citizenship ceremony tomorrow, actually, in Usk. So, I'm sure you'd like to join me in extending good wishes to her.
We know the difficulties that Zimbabwe is currently experiencing, and also the wider southern African area following the recent storm Idai. This Assembly, as you said, has a reputation for its links with Africa, dating back to the first Assembly, when we established those links with Lesotho. Will you and the Presiding Officer and Deputy Presiding Officer ensure that the importance of those links between the people of Wales and the people of Africa are centre stage at this year's—next month's—celebration of the 20 years of devolution, which I know is going to be happening here and elsewhere, to make sure that, in the future, links between Wales and Africa are cemented, because I think that our support for the people of Africa is very much appreciated?
Credaf fy mod yn prysur ddod yn hyrwyddwr fy mhlaid ar ran Affrica, Weinidog. Ymddengys fy mod bob amser yn eich holi ynglŷn ag Affrica neu Love Zimbabwe yn fy nghwestiynau i chi. A gaf fi gytuno â'r sylwadau a wnaed gan John Griffiths? Fel y gwyddoch, mae gennyf gysylltiadau ag elusen Love Zimbabwe, sydd â chysylltiadau cryf â thref Y Fenni. Fel y dywedais wrthych yr wythnos diwethaf, bydd Martha Holman, un o'r gwirfoddolwyr, yn mynychu ei seremoni ddinasyddiaeth Brydeinig yfory ym Mrynbuga. Felly rwy'n siŵr yr hoffech ymuno â mi i ddymuno'n dda iddi.
Gwyddom am yr anawsterau y mae Zimbabwe yn eu hwynebu ar hyn o bryd, yn ogystal ag ardal ehangach de Affrica yn dilyn storm Idai yn ddiweddar. Mae gan y Cynulliad hwn, fel y dywedasoch, enw da am ei gysylltiadau ag Affrica ers y Cynulliad cyntaf, pan sefydlasom y cysylltiadau hynny â Lesotho. A wnewch chi, y Llywydd a'r Dirprwy Lywydd sicrhau bod pwysigrwydd y cysylltiadau hynny rhwng pobl Cymru a phobl Affrica yn cael sylw blaenllaw yn y digwyddiad eleni—y mis nesaf—i ddathlu 20 mlynedd ers datganoli, a fydd yn digwydd yma ac mewn mannau eraill, er mwyn sicrhau bod cysylltiadau rhwng Cymru ac Affrica yn y dyfodol yn cael eu cadarnhau, gan y credaf fod ein cefnogaeth i bobl Affrica yn cael ei gwerthfawrogi'n fawr?
Thank you. I think that's an excellent idea, and it's one I hope that the Deputy Presiding Officer will pass on—that message that perhaps it would be a good thing to celebrate the Wales-Africa links in those celebrations of 20 years of devolution.
I would love to welcome Martha as a citizen of Wales. We are delighted to have her. If everybody made the kind of contribution that she's made to her community we'd be much better off as a nation. We are really thrilled to have her, and anyone who can pass those citizenship tests really deserves to be a member of our nation. They really are quite tough. So, welcome to her, to be a Welsh Zimbabwean. We're very proud to have her.
I think it is also essential to request that the people of Wales stand in solidarity at this time with the people in southern Africa who are affected by cyclone Idai. It's been a colossal and damaging effect on the economy, on lives, on the communities there, and if anyone could contribute, that's certainly something that we would encourage them to do.
Diolch. Credaf fod hynny'n syniad gwych, a gobeithiaf ei fod yn un y bydd y Dirprwy Lywydd yn ei rannu—y neges honno y byddai'n wych dathlu'r cysylltiadau Cymru-Affrica wrth ddathlu 20 mlynedd ers datganoli.
Buaswn wrth fy modd yn croesawu Martha fel dinesydd Cymru. Rydym yn falch iawn o'i chael. Pe bai pawb yn gwneud y math o gyfraniad y mae hi wedi'i wneud i'w chymuned, byddem yn llawer gwell ein byd fel cenedl. Rydym yn wirioneddol falch o'i chael, ac mae unrhyw un sy'n gallu pasio'r profion dinasyddiaeth hynny yn haeddu bod yn aelod o'n gwlad. Maent yn eithaf anodd. Felly, croeso iddi, i fod yn Zimbabwead Cymreig. Rydym yn falch iawn o'i chael.
Credaf ei bod hefyd yn hanfodol gofyn i bobl Cymru ddangos eu bod yn un â'r bobl yn ne Affrica sydd wedi'u heffeithio gan seiclon Idai. Mae wedi cael effaith enfawr a niweidiol ar yr economi, ar fywydau, ar y cymunedau yno, ac os oes modd i unrhyw un gyfrannu, mae hynny'n sicr yn rhywbeth y byddem yn eu hannog i'w wneud.
Minister, I'm very glad that you mention PONT and the work done by people in my constituency, particularly people such as Dr Geoff Lloyd, who has done so much on health in places like Uganda. And I wonder if you're aware of the proposal emerging from those who are involved in the Wales for Africa Health Links network, which suggests that Wales could adopt 3 million people in sub-Saharan Africa and provide universal health coverage for them through the existing network. Now, this is a really exciting proposal, not only using the existing network and existing resources and so on, but it would extend the actual coverage of the programme and would be a real tribute to the anniversary of the Wales for Africa programme.
Weinidog, rwy'n falch iawn eich bod yn sôn am PONT a'r gwaith a wnaed gan bobl yn fy etholaeth, yn enwedig pobl fel Dr Geoff Lloyd, sydd wedi gwneud cymaint o waith ar iechyd mewn mannau fel Uganda. A tybed a ydych yn ymwybodol o'r cynnig sy'n datblygu gan y rhai sy'n ymwneud â rhwydwaith Cysylltiadau Iechyd Cymru o Blaid Affrica, sy'n awgrymu y gallai Cymru fabwysiadu 3 miliwn o bobl yn Affrica Is-Sahara a darparu gwasanaeth iechyd cyffredinol iddynt drwy'r rhwydwaith sy'n bodoli eisoes. Nawr, mae hwn yn gynnig cyffrous iawn, nid yn unig o ran defnyddio'r rhwydwaith a'r adnoddau ac ati sy'n bodoli eisoes, ond byddai'n ymestyn holl gwmpas y rhaglen ac yn deyrnged wirioneddol i ben-blwydd rhaglen Cymru o Blaid Affrica.
Thank you. I think the work that PONT has done over the years is really quite phenomenal and so many people have been engaged with it from the bottom up. I'm aware of the work and the suggestions that have been made in terms of that link and the possibility of seeing how much further we can push the health links in particular. I've had a meeting with the deputy health Minister today to see whether there is any scope for us to push this further. So, we need to think and to scope out if there are any possibilities. In principle, I'd love to see that develop a bit further. Of course, we're under severe financial constraints at the moment, but if there is a possibility, in particular within the health sector, then I would like to see how we can explore those further.
Diolch. Credaf fod y gwaith y mae PONT wedi'i wneud dros y blynyddoedd yn wirioneddol anhygoel, ac mae cymaint o bobl wedi bod yn rhan o'r gwaith hwnnw o'r gwaelod i fyny. Rwy'n ymwybodol o'r gwaith a'r awgrymiadau a wnaed o ran y cyswllt hwnnw a'r posibilrwydd o weld faint yn rhagor y gallwn hybu'r cysylltiadau iechyd yn enwedig. Rwyf wedi cael cyfarfod gyda'r dirprwy Weinidog iechyd heddiw i weld a oes unrhyw fodd o hybu hyn ymhellach. Felly, mae angen i ni feddwl a nodi unrhyw bosibiliadau sydd i'w cael. Mewn egwyddor, buaswn wrth fy modd yn gweld hynny'n datblygu ychydig ymhellach. Wrth gwrs, mae cyfyngiadau ariannol difrifol arnom ar hyn o bryd, ond os oes posibilrwydd, yn enwedig o fewn y sector iechyd, hoffwn weld sut y gallwn archwilio hynny ymhellach.
4. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am strategaeth cysylltiadau rhyngwladol Llywodraeth Cymru? OAQ53734
4. Will the Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's international relations strategy? OAQ53734
Diolch yn fawr. I announced my intentions to produce a new strategy communicating our international vision for Wales in January. We are still in the drafting stages of this work, and I expect to put a draft to Cabinet in early May, with a final document ready for publication before the summer.
Diolch yn fawr. Cyhoeddais fy mwriad i gynhyrchu strategaeth newydd i gyfleu ein gweledigaeth ryngwladol ar gyfer Cymru ym mis Ionawr. Rydym yn dal i ddrafftio'r gwaith hwn, ac rwy'n disgwyl cyflwyno drafft i'r Cabinet ym mis Mai, gyda'r ddogfen derfynol yn barod i'w chyhoeddi cyn yr haf.
Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Well, in that case, I'm delighted to have caught you drafting the strategy. That's certainly something to be welcomed. We're all aware of the disaster of Brexit and the impact that's having on the standing of the United Kingdom across the world. It's important, therefore, that the Welsh Government renews its work to promote Wales as a place to do business and a place where we can create new business links across different countries. We know also that there's a significant investment taking place in the Heads of the Valleys and a Valleys programme that looks at promoting the Valleys as a place to invest and a place to do business. Can you, Minister, ensure that the Valleys and the Heads of the Valleys are central to your work in terms of international relations? Promoting the Heads of the Valleys and the whole of the Valleys as places where we can create businesses, create new business activity, I hope, will be central to the Welsh Government's wider vision of an international relations strategy.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Wel, os felly, rwy'n falch iawn fy mod wedi'ch dal yn drafftio'r strategaeth. Mae hynny'n sicr yn rhywbeth i'w groesawu. Mae pob un ohonom yn ymwybodol o drychineb Brexit a'r effaith y mae'n ei chael ar statws y Deyrnas Unedig ledled y byd. Mae'n bwysig, felly, fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn adnewyddu ei gwaith i hyrwyddo Cymru fel lle i wneud busnes a man lle gallwn greu cysylltiadau busnes newydd gyda gwahanol wledydd. Gwyddom hefyd fod buddsoddiad sylweddol ar waith ym Mlaenau'r Cymoedd a rhaglen ar gyfer y Cymoedd sy'n ceisio hyrwyddo'r Cymoedd fel lle i fuddsoddi a lle i wneud busnes ynddo. A allwch chi, Weinidog, sicrhau bod y Cymoedd a Blaenau'r Cymoedd yn ganolog i'ch gwaith o ran cysylltiadau rhyngwladol? Bydd hyrwyddo Blaenau'r Cymoedd a'r Cymoedd yn gyffredinol fel mannau lle gallwn greu busnesau, creu gweithgarwch busnes newydd, gobeithio, yn rhan ganolog o weledigaeth ehangach Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer strategaeth gysylltiadau rhyngwladol.
Thank you, and you're absolutely right that, actually, the fact that we have no idea what is going to happen in terms of our relationship with Europe is making it extremely difficult to draft an international strategy, because there would be fundamental difference depending on where we end up. If we leave the European Union, and in particular if we leave with no deal, then we need to really work very, very hard to rebuild those relationships with our continental colleagues where we have similar values and we have 60 per cent of our trade and goods going to them. Of course, we would have to reinforce that. If we don't end up there and we somehow or other miraculously finish up as a part of the single market, then we will adjust our strategy as a result. So, it is difficult at the moment to know exactly how to develop the strategy.
But the one thing I can tell you is that all this Brexit nonsense is making it much more difficult for us to land inward investment into Wales. When people say they're interested in investing, the question they ask is, 'Can I export to that 500 million people market on your neighbouring continent?' And the answer at the moment is, 'We're not sure.' Now, that is not the basis for investment. So, of course, we're really concerned about that.
You will be aware that, over the years, there have been over 100 individual investments to the Heads of the Valleys region, where we've safeguarded more than about 16,000 jobs over the years, but I think fundamental to what we need to do—because you have got to ask in this global society why people are going where—I think one of the things we need to do is to make sure that we upskill the people in the Valleys so that we are offering a skilled workforce, which will really attract businesses to those areas. So, I think that's a fundamental piece of this jigsaw.
Diolch, ac rydych yn llygad eich lle, mewn gwirionedd, fod y ffaith nad oes gennym unrhyw syniad beth fydd yn digwydd o ran ein perthynas gydag Ewrop yn ei gwneud yn anodd iawn drafftio strategaeth ryngwladol, gan y byddai gwahaniaeth sylfaenol yn dibynnu ar ein sefyllfa yn y pen draw. Os byddwn yn gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, ac yn enwedig os byddwn yn gadael heb gytundeb, mae angen i ni weithio'n galed iawn i ailadeiladu'r cysylltiadau hynny gyda'n cymheiriaid cyfandirol lle mae gennym werthoedd tebyg ac mae 60 y cant o'n masnach a'n nwyddau yn mynd iddynt hwy. Wrth gwrs, byddai'n rhaid i ni atgyfnerthu hynny. Os na fyddwn yn cyrraedd y sefyllfa honno, a thrwy ryw fath o wyrth yn rhan o'r farchnad sengl yn y pen draw, byddwn yn addasu ein strategaeth o ganlyniad i hynny. Felly, ar hyn o bryd, mae'n anodd gwybod sut yn union i ddatblygu'r strategaeth.
Ond un peth y gallaf ei ddweud wrthych yw bod holl ddwli Brexit yn ei gwneud yn llawer anoddach i ni sicrhau mewnfuddsoddiad i Gymru. Pan fydd pobl yn dweud bod ganddynt ddiddordeb mewn buddsoddi, y cwestiwn a ofynnant yw, 'A gaf fi allforio i'r farchnad honno o 500 miliwn o bobl ar y cyfandir cyfagos?' A'r ateb ar hyn o bryd yw, 'Nid ydym yn siŵr.' Nawr, nid yw honno'n sail ar gyfer buddsoddi. Felly, wrth gwrs, rydym yn bryderus iawn ynglŷn â hynny.
Fe fyddwch yn gwybod bod dros 100 o fuddsoddiadau unigol wedi'u gwneud dros y blynyddoedd yn rhanbarth Blaenau'r Cymoedd, lle rydym wedi diogelu mwy na 16,000 o swyddi dros y blynyddoedd, ond credaf mai'r hyn sy'n hanfodol i'r hyn y mae angen i ni ei wneud—gan fod angen ichi ofyn yn y gymdeithas fyd-eang hon sydd ohoni pam fod pobl yn mynd i ble—credaf mai un o'r pethau y mae angen inni eu gwneud yw sicrhau ein bod yn uwchsgilio pobl yn y Cymoedd fel ein bod yn cynnig gweithlu medrus a fydd yn denu busnesau i'r ardaloedd hynny. Felly, credaf fod hynny'n ddarn sylfaenol o'r jig-so hwn.
5. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u cael gyda'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ynghylch rôl rhaglenni cyfrwng Cymraeg Dechrau'n Deg o ran cynyddu nifer y siaradwyr Cymraeg? OAQ53714
5. What discussions has the Minister had with the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the role of Welsh-medium Flying Start programmes in increasing the number of Welsh speakers? OAQ53714
Diolch yn fawr. Rwy’n cyfarfod yn gyson gyda Gweinidogion er mwyn trafod eu cyfraniad at y nod o 1 miliwn o siaradwyr Cymraeg. Felly, ym mis Medi, fe wnes i gael cyfarfod gyda’r Gweinidog Plant, Pobl Hŷn a Gofal Cymdeithasol ar y pryd i drafod cyfraniad y maes i’r nod yma.
Thank you very much. I meet regularly with Ministers to discuss their contribution to the aim of 1 million Welsh speakers. In September, I had a meeting with the Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care, as was, to discuss the contribution to this particular aim.
Diolch. Attending Ti a Fi, Mudiad Meithrin or Welsh-medium Flying Start is, I believe, the best way to prepare children, especially those from non-Welsh-speaking families, for Welsh-medium education. What is the Minister doing to ensure that children are given equal access to Welsh-medium and English-medium Flying Start? That is, both are offered and there is no later start date for Welsh-medium Flying Start than for English.
Diolch. Credaf mai mynychu Ti a Fi, y Mudiad Meithrin neu raglen cyfrwng Cymraeg Dechrau'n Deg yw'r ffordd orau i baratoi plant, yn enwedig y rhai o deuluoedd di-Gymraeg, ar gyfer addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg. Beth y mae'r Gweinidog yn ei wneud i sicrhau bod plant yn cael mynediad cyfartal at raglenni cyfrwng Cymraeg a chyfrwng Saesneg Dechrau'n Deg? Hynny yw, mae'r ddwy raglen ar gael ac nid yw'r rhaglen cyfrwng Cymraeg yn dechrau'n hwyrach na'r rhaglen cyfrwng Saesneg.
Well, it is important that what we offer, that we get this right right at the beginning, because it will determine very often where children end up. So, you're absolutely right: we need to make sure that there is an equal offer. I know that Dechrau Disglair is the local authority's dedicated Welsh-medium Flying Start childcare setting in the Swansea area. Of course, what we're doing now is we're extending our offer in terms of childcare, which of course is available in Welsh, and that will give more opportunities to those parents who want to send their children to Welsh language settings. I'd be grateful if you have any details of where there has not been an equality in terms of Flying Start in terms of which language people are taught in. I'd be grateful to hear that and I can pass that on to my officials.
Wel, mae'n bwysig, o ran yr hyn a gynigiwn, ein bod yn cael hyn yn iawn o'r cychwyn cyntaf, oherwydd, yn aml iawn, bydd yn cael effaith ar ble fydd y plant yn y pen draw. Felly, rydych yn hollol gywir: mae angen i ni sicrhau bod yna gynnig cyfartal. Gwn mai Dechrau Disglair yw lleoliad gofal plant cyfrwng Cymraeg Dechrau'n Deg yn ardal Abertawe. Wrth gwrs, yr hyn rydym yn ei wneud yn awr yw ymestyn ein cynnig gofal plant, sydd ar gael yn Gymraeg wrth gwrs, a bydd hynny'n rhoi mwy o gyfleoedd i'r rhieni hynny sydd eisiau anfon eu plant i leoliadau cyfrwng Cymraeg. Buaswn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech roi unrhyw fanylion i mi am enghreifftiau lle na welwyd darpariaeth gyfartal mewn perthynas â Dechrau'n Deg o ran pa iaith a ddefnyddir i addysgu pobl. Buaswn yn ddiolchgar i glywed hynny a gallaf basio'r wybodaeth honno ymlaen i fy swyddogion.
6. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyllid y Loteri Genedlaethol ar gyfer prosiectau yng Nghymru? OAQ53709
6. Will the Minister make a statement on National Lottery funding for projects in Wales? OAQ53709
Thank you for that question. As we celebrate the twenty-fifth anniversary of National Lottery, I'm delighted to give you the figures that National Lottery players have supported over 50,000 projects across Wales, to the tune of £1.75 billion of investment. As part of my role as Minister, I have oversight of the National Lottery spend, and therefore have regular discussions with National Lottery about the direction of travel and the direction of spend.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Wrth i ni ddathlu pen-blwydd y Loteri Genedlaethol yn bump ar hugain mlwydd oed, rwy'n falch o allu dweud wrthych fod chwaraewyr y Loteri Genedlaethol wedi cefnogi dros 50,000 o brosiectau ledled Cymru, gydag oddeutu £1.75 biliwn o fuddsoddiad. Fel rhan o fy rôl fel Gweinidog, rwy'n goruchwylio gwariant y Loteri Genedlaethol, ac felly rwy'n cael trafodaethau rheolaidd gyda'r Loteri Genedlaethol ynghylch y cyfeiriad teithio a chyfeiriad y gwariant.
Thank you very much, Minister. A recent report from the House of Lords, which you happen to be a Member of, warned of the potential danger that Brexit could make arts funding more London centric. Concerns have been raised about the fairness of the location of lottery funding and that some parts of London have received 10 times more money per head of the population than in Wales. In London, they're having 10 times more per person, per head, than in Wales. Minister, what discussions have you had with the Arts Council for Wales and Camelot about reducing this imbalance in funding in light of the findings of your House of Lords report?
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Weinidog. Roedd adroddiad diweddar o Dŷ'r Arglwyddi, yr ydych yn digwydd bod yn Aelod ohono, yn rhybuddio am y perygl posibl y gallai Brexit arwain at ganoli mwy o gyllid y celfyddydau yn Llundain. Mynegwyd pryderon ynghylch tegwch lleoliad arian y loteri, a bod rhai rhannau o Lundain wedi derbyn 10 gwaith yn fwy o arian y pen o'r boblogaeth nag yng Nghymru. Yn Llundain, maent yn cael 10 gwaith yn fwy y pen nag yng Nghymru. Weinidog, pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda Chyngor Celfyddydau Cymru a Camelot ynglŷn â lleihau'r anghydbwysedd cyllidol hwn yng ngoleuni canfyddiadau adroddiad Tŷ’r Arglwyddi?
Well, I have to disagree with my colleagues in the upper House. Clearly, I'm not a regular attender and neither is my colleague—it is rather ironic that we have two Members of the House of Lords in one department in this Assembly. The answer is that I don't think it is possible really to compare public spending in London through lottery funds with other parts of the United Kingdom—and clearly he knows London as much as I do—partly because you have there the headquarters of many organisations, you also have a massive diversity of artistic and other activities, and other lottery potential candidate activities. Therefore, what I have always sought to do is to ensure that the lottery spend in Wales reflects the proportion of applications that is made and that that is equitable within Wales. I have no control over the lottery spending, as such; I have oversight of the way it is spent in Wales. But I will ask for further discussion with the lottery in Wales in relation to the spend at the UK level, with particular reference to your question, which I'm grateful to receive.
Wel, mae'n rhaid i mi anghytuno â fy nghyd-aelodau yn y Siambr uchaf. Yn amlwg, nid wyf yn fynychwr rheolaidd ac nid yw fy nghyd-Aelod yn fynychwr rheolaidd ychwaith—mae braidd yn eironig fod gennym ddau aelod o Dŷ’r Arglwyddi o fewn un adran yn y Cynulliad hwn. Yr ateb yw nad wyf yn credu ei bod yn bosibl cymharu gwariant cyhoeddus yn Llundain drwy arian y loteri â rhannau eraill o'r Deyrnas Unedig—ac mae'n amlwg ei fod yn adnabod Llundain yr un mor dda â fi—yn rhannol oherwydd bod pencadlys llawer o sefydliadau yno, mae amrywiaeth enfawr o weithgareddau artistig a gweithgareddau eraill yno hefyd, a gweithgareddau eraill a allai wneud cais am arian y loteri. Felly, rwyf bob amser wedi ceisio sicrhau bod gwariant y loteri yng Nghymru yn adlewyrchu cyfran y ceisiadau a wneir a bod hynny'n deg yng Nghymru. Nid oes gennyf reolaeth dros wariant y loteri, fel y cyfryw; rwy'n goruchwylio'r ffordd y caiff ei wario yng Nghymru. Ond byddaf yn gofyn am drafodaeth bellach gyda'r loteri yng Nghymru mewn perthynas â'r gwariant ar lefel y DU, gan gyfeirio'n benodol at eich cwestiwn, ac rwy'n ddiolchgar amdano.
And finally, question 7, Huw Irranca-Davies.
Ac yn olaf, cwestiwn 7, Huw Irranca-Davies.
7. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u cael gyda chydweithwyr ar ffyrdd o hyrwyddo delwedd fyd-eang Cymru fel lle ar gyfer buddsoddiad? OAQ53694
7. What discussions has the Minister had with colleagues on ways to promote Wales’s global image as a place for investment? OAQ53694
I've met with stakeholders and with fellow Ministers to discuss how Wales's strengths can be promoted more widely and, through our award-winning Wales brand, we're focusing on telling the Wales story for businesses that start, grow and invest here, and these stories are the foundation of our marketing programme.
Rwyf wedi cyfarfod â rhanddeiliaid a chyd-Weinidogion i drafod sut y gellir hybu cryfderau Cymru yn ehangach, a thrwy frand Cymru sydd wedi ennill gwobrau, rydym yn canolbwyntio ar adrodd stori Cymru ar gyfer busnesau sy'n dechrau, tyfu a buddsoddi yma, a'r straeon hyn yw sylfaen ein rhaglen farchnata.
I thank the Minister. I was pleased to attend and speak last week at an event organised by the Royal Society and the Learned Society of Wales on the matter of the challenges and opportunities for research and development and innovation in Wales. One of the many aspects we considered were the Reid recommendations, including the need to increase the visibility and influence of Welsh research by creating a new Welsh research and innovation London office to act on behalf of the Welsh Government and Welsh Ministers in the interests of the Welsh research and innovation community, but also to identify and promote funding opportunities arising at a UK and international level, to attract talent and investment into the Welsh research and innovation community from the rest of the UK and internationally, and, of course, to increase the visibility of Welsh research and innovation outside of Wales.
So, Minister, in a post-Brexit situation where we'll face the disappearance of EU funding streams and the advent of a more competitive bid process funding landscape for R&D and innovation in the UK, it'll be crucial for us to punch above our weight in quality and in quantum. So, in her role, what can the Minister do, alongside the Minister for Education, to attract research and development and innovation funding and expertise to Wales?
Diolch i'r Gweinidog. Roeddwn yn falch o fynychu a siarad yr wythnos diwethaf mewn digwyddiad a drefnwyd gan y Gymdeithas Frenhinol a Chymdeithas Ddysgedig Cymru ar yr heriau a'r cyfleoedd ar gyfer ymchwil a datblygu ac arloesi yng Nghymru. Un o'r sawl agwedd a ystyriwyd gennym oedd argymhellion Reid, gan gynnwys yr angen i gynyddu amlygrwydd a dylanwad ymchwil Cymru drwy greu swyddfa newydd ar gyfer ymchwil ac arloesi Cymru yn Llundain i weithredu ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru a Gweinidogion Cymru er budd cymuned ymchwil ac arloesi Cymru, ond hefyd i nodi a hyrwyddo cyfleoedd ariannu sy'n codi ar lefel y DU ac ar lefel ryngwladol, i ddenu talent a buddsoddiad o weddill y DU, ac yn rhyngwladol i gymuned ymchwil ac arloesi Cymru, ac wrth gwrs, i gynyddu amlygrwydd ymchwil ac arloesi Cymru y tu allan i Gymru.
Felly, Weinidog, mewn sefyllfa ôl-Brexit pan fyddwn yn wynebu diflaniad ffrydiau arian yr UE a dyfodiad tirlun cyllidol a phroses ymgeisio fwy cystadleuol ar gyfer ymchwil a datblygu ac arloesi yn y DU, bydd yn hollbwysig i ni wneud yn well na'r disgwyl o ran ansawdd a maint. Felly, yn ei rôl, beth y gall y Gweinidog ei wneud, ochr yn ochr â'r Gweinidog Addysg, i ddenu cyllid ac arbenigedd ymchwil a datblygu ac arloesi i Gymru?
Well, I think the Member's right to emphasise the point that, actually, we've gained quite significantly from Horizon in the past, and I haven't given up yet. I think there's a real opportunity for us to continue to try and engage with that programme. The nonsense of the situation is that, in the past, for the £5 billion we've put in the programme, we've got £8 billion out, as the UK. And in Wales we've had £100 million just recently from the programme—over 2,800 different collaborations across the continent. So we shouldn't give up on that. There's a real opportunity for us to continue to push on that.
I've met a couple of times since my appointment with the Chief Scientific Adviser for Wales, and you're absolutely right, he emphasises that the quality of the work in Wales is superior, very often, to much of what is done elsewhere, and we need to talk about it and sing about it. I am delighted to announce that we have had a recent appointment of a London based head of innovation and research engagement officer, who will now be based in that London office. And, of course, we have other programmes, like the Sêr Cymru programme. But part of the international strategy will be about raising the visibility of what we're doing in those areas internationally.
Wel, rwy'n credu bod yr Aelod yn iawn i bwysleisio'r pwynt ein bod, mewn gwirionedd, wedi elwa yn eithaf sylweddol o Horizon yn y gorffennol, ac nid wyf wedi rhoi'r gorau iddi eto. Credaf fod cyfle gwirioneddol i ni barhau i geisio ymgysylltu â'r rhaglen honno. Nonsens y sefyllfa yw bod y DU, yn y gorffennol, wedi cael £8 biliwn yn ôl am y £5 biliwn a fuddsoddodd yn y rhaglen. Ac yng Nghymru rydym wedi cael £100 miliwn o'r rhaglen yn ddiweddar—dros 2,800 o gydweithrediadau gwahanol ar draws y cyfandir. Felly ni ddylem roi'r gorau i hynny. Mae cyfle gwirioneddol i ni barhau i bwyso am hynny.
Rwyf wedi cyfarfod â Phrif Gynghorydd Gwyddonol Cymru ychydig o weithiau ers fy mhenodiad, ac rydych yn hollol gywir, mae'n pwysleisio bod ansawdd y gwaith yng Nghymru yn well, yn aml iawn, na llawer o'r hyn a wneir mewn mannau eraill, ac mae angen i ni siarad am y peth a chanu am y peth. Rwy'n falch o gyhoeddi ein bod wedi penodi swyddog ymgysylltu arloesedd ac ymchwil yn ddiweddar, a fydd yn gweithio yn y swyddfa honno yn Llundain. Ac wrth gwrs, mae gennym raglenni eraill, megis rhaglen Sêr Cymru. Ond bydd rhan o'r strategaeth ryngwladol yn ymwneud â chynyddu amlygrwydd yr hyn rydym yn ei wneud yn y meysydd hynny yn rhyngwladol.
Thank you very much, Minister.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Weinidog.
Item 3 on the agenda is questions to the Assembly Commission, and the first question this afternoon will be answered by the Llywydd. Janet Finch-Saunders.
Eitem 3 ar yr agenda yw'r cwestiynau i Gomisiwn y Cynulliad, a bydd y cwestiwn cyntaf y prynhawn yma yn cael ei ateb gan y Llywydd. Janet Finch-Saunders.
1. A wnaiff y Comisiynydd ddatganiad am wasanaeth allgymorth Comisiwn y Cynulliad? OAQ53698
1. Will the Commissioner make a statement on the Assembly Commission’s outreach service? OAQ53698
Mae gwasanaeth allgymorth y Cynulliad yn ymgysylltu â phobl o bob oed a chefndir, ac o bob rhan o Gymru, i hybu eu dealltwriaeth o waith y Cynulliad ac ennyn eu diddordeb ynddo, a hefyd i’w hannog i gyfrannu at waith y pwyllgorau. Mae’r gwasanaeth yn gweithio gydag ysgolion, colegau, grwpiau ieuenctid, busnesau, cyrff cyhoeddus, cyrff cynrychioladol, undebau ac amrywiaeth eang o sefydliadau cymdeithas sifil. Mae’r tîm hefyd yn rheoli presenoldeb y Cynulliad mewn sioeau dros yr haf a digwyddiadau eraill. Yn fwy diweddar, wrth gwrs, mae ein gwasanaeth allgymorth wedi bod ynghlwm wrth weithgareddau Senedd Ieuenctid Cymru.
The Assembly’s outreach service engages with citizens from all parts of Wales, and of all ages and backgrounds, to increase levels of understanding and interest in the Assembly’s work and to involve people in the work of committees. The service engages with schools, colleges, youth groups, community groups, businesses, public bodies, representative bodies, unions and a wide range of civic society organisations. The team also manages the Assembly’s presence at summer shows and other events. More recently, of course, our outreach work includes supporting the Welsh Youth Parliament’s activities.
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I'm really pleased to endorse the work they do. I know they work exceptionally hard. Of course, here, we have the honour of drafting, debating and passing legislation that does impact on our own constituents across the length and breadth of Wales.
I do have some minor concerns, and I thought I'd raise them here, as to how we, as Members, can be kept better informed of the engagement within our constituencies. This has arisen at committees. Quite often, the outreach team will engage within our own constituencies, and sometimes I'm told about it by constituents, but I'd like to see a better connection, really, between the work they do in our constituencies, because we are elected Members, and how we could, perhaps, work more closely with them. We may be able to attend an event where they may be doing some work, so we could go along to support them. Could that, possibly, be a consideration going forward, that when the outreach team are present within our own constituencies that, perhaps, as we do out of courtesy when Ministers are actually attending our constituencies, perhaps we could be informed and we could, as I say, either support them or at least we'd be aware and there would be a better join-up between us and them?
Diolch i chi, Lywydd. Rwy'n falch iawn o gymeradwyo'r gwaith y maent yn ei wneud. Gwn eu bod yn gweithio'n eithriadol o galed. Wrth gwrs, yma, mae gennym y fraint o ddrafftio, trafod a phasio deddfwriaeth sy'n effeithio ar ein hetholwyr ein hunain ar hyd a lled Cymru.
Mae gennyf rywfaint o fân bryderon, ac roeddwn yn meddwl y buaswn yn eu codi yma, mewn perthynas â sut y gallwn ni, fel Aelodau, gael rhagor o wybodaeth am yr ymgysylltiad o fewn ein hetholaethau. Mae hyn wedi codi mewn pwyllgorau. Yn aml iawn, bydd y tîm allgymorth yn ymgysylltu o fewn ein hetholaethau ein hunain, ac weithiau bydd etholwyr yn dweud wrthyf amdano, ond hoffwn weld cysylltiad gwell, mewn gwirionedd, rhwng y gwaith a wnânt yn ein hetholaethau, oherwydd rydym yn Aelodau etholedig, a sut y gallasem, efallai, weithio'n agosach gyda hwy. Efallai y byddwn yn gallu mynychu digwyddiad lle byddant, o bosibl, yn gwneud rhywfaint o waith, fel y gallasem fynd i'w cefnogi. A allai hynny, o bosibl, fod yn ystyriaeth wrth symud ymlaen, pan fydd y tîm allgymorth yn bresennol yn ein hetholaethau, efallai y gallem gael gwybod a gallem naill ai eu cefnogi, fel rydym yn ei wneud allan o gwrteisi pan fydd Gweinidogion yn mynychu ein hetholaethau mewn gwirionedd, neu o leiaf byddem yn ymwybodol o hynny a byddai gwell cydgysylltiad rhyngom ni a hwy?
Diolch am y cwestiwn, ac rwy'n meddwl bod yr Aelod yn gwneud pwynt diddorol iawn. Yn wir, mae wedi digwydd i fi, lle mae yna waith gan bwyllgorau wedi digwydd yn fy etholaeth i a doeddwn i ddim yn ymwybodol ohono. Felly, mae yn waith sydd yn digwydd ym mhob etholaeth yng Nghymru—pob rhanbarth yng Nghymru. Efallai bod gwerth inni edrych a yw hi'n bosibl creu system sydd yn rhoi gwybod, o leiaf, i Aelodau fan hyn beth yn union yw'r gwaith sydd yn digwydd yn eu hetholaethau a'u rhanbarthau nhw. Felly, mi wnawn ni edrych ar a yw hynny'n ymarferol bosibl i'w wneud, ond yn sicr rwy'n credu ei fod yn gwestiwn gwerthfawr i'w ofyn.
Thank you for the question, and I think the Member raises an interesting point. I know it's happened to me, where work by committees has happened in my constituency that I wasn't aware of. It is work that happens in every constituency in Wales—in every region of Wales. Perhaps it would be worth us looking at whether it's possible to create a system that would at least inform Members here of what work is happening in their constituencies and regions. Therefore, we will look at whether that is practically possible to do, but, certainly, I think it is a valuable question to ask.
Thank you. Question 2 and question 3 will be answered by Commissioner David Rowlands. Question 2, Huw Irranca-Davies.
Diolch. Bydd cwestiwn 2 a chwestiwn 3 yn cael eu ateb gan y Comisiynydd David Rowlands. Cwestiwn 2, Huw Irranca-Davies.
2. Pa gynnydd sydd wedi'i wneud o ran annog teithio llesol i ac o'r Senedd? OAQ53696
2. What progress has been made on encouraging active travel to and from the Senedd? OAQ53696
I thank the Assembly Member for his question. The Assembly’s website provides information on how to reach the Senedd via a variety of travel modes, including public transport, walking and cycling.
There are publicly accessible cycle racks in close proximity to the Senedd, outside both Tŷ Hywel and the Pierhead. We have met with the nextbike scheme to help facilitate the installation of a docking station in Cardiff Bay and we were pleased that one was recently installed nearby. The Assembly has been actively involved in the public services board for healthy travel in Cardiff. We're also very aware of the commitment contained in the new rail franchise to extend facilities for bike use, including more cycle capacity once the new rolling stock comes online, and we will be keeping a close watch on how this may, hopefully, have a positive impact on cycle use to the Assembly estate.
Diolch i'r Aelod Cynulliad am ei gwestiwn. Mae gwefan y Cynulliad yn darparu gwybodaeth ar sut i gyrraedd y Senedd drwy amrywiaeth o ddulliau teithio, gan gynnwys trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, cerdded a beicio.
Ceir raciau beiciau sy'n hygyrch i'r cyhoedd yn agos at y Senedd, y tu allan i Dŷ Hywel a'r Pierhead. Rydym wedi cyfarfod â chynllun nextbike i helpu i hwyluso'r broses o osod gorsaf ddocio ym Mae Caerdydd ac roedd yn dda gennym glywed bod un wedi cael ei gosod gerllaw yn ddiweddar. Mae'r Cynulliad wedi chwarae rhan weithredol yn y bwrdd gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ar gyfer teithio iach yng Nghaerdydd. Rydym hefyd yn ymwybodol iawn o'r ymrwymiad a gynhwysir yn y fasnachfraint rheilffyrdd newydd i ymestyn cyfleusterau ar gyfer defnyddio beiciau, gan gynnwys mwy o le ar gyfer beiciau pan ddaw'r cerbydau newydd yn weithredol, a byddwn yn cadw llygad barcud ar sut y gall hyn, gobeithio, gael effaith gadarnhaol ar y defnydd o feiciau i gyrraedd ystâd y Cynulliad.
I thank David very much for that really comprehensive answer. I have to say that the Assembly is leading the way very much here in terms of active travel, but we could always do more, so I will be popping up regularly as a critical friend. I want to ask you, David, whether you have given any consideration, or whether you would give consideration, to the use of alternatives to heavy-duty trucks coming through the main security entrance, which cause a bit of a tailback.
There was an interesting moment the other day when a cyclist friend of mine was coming in, the articulated van pulled up and the security guards went through and did their thorough search to find that there was just one little box sitting in the middle of the Luton van that had to be driven into the estate and around. So, would he investigate the use—leading the way again, within the Senedd—of things such as cargo bikes or electric cargo bikes, which are available now in Cardiff, which could, indeed, deliver smaller packages? It's a question of leadership again. You've shown us that you're willing to lead, so would you explore that possibility?
Diolch yn fawr i David am yr ateb hynod gynhwysfawr hwnnw. Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud bod y Cynulliad yn arwain y ffordd yma o ran teithio llesol, ond mae bob amser mwy i ni ei wneud, felly byddaf yn codi fy mhen yn rheolaidd fel cyfaill beirniadol. Rwyf eisiau gofyn i chi, David, a ydych wedi ystyried, neu a wnewch chi ystyried, defnyddio dewisiadau amgen yn lle'r tryciau gwaith trwm sy'n dod drwy'r brif fynedfa ddiogelwch gan achosi ychydig o dagfa.
Roedd yna foment ddiddorol y diwrnod o'r blaen pan oedd beiciwr, sydd hefyd yn gyfaill i mi, yn beicio i mewn. Cyrhaeddodd y fan gymalog ac fe gafodd ei harchwilio'n drylwyr gan y swyddogion diogelwch a welodd mai un blwch bach yn unig, yng nghanol y fan Luton, a oedd angen cael ei yrru i mewn ac o amgylch yr ystâd. Felly, a fyddai'n fodlon ymchwilio i'r defnydd—gan arwain y ffordd unwaith eto, o fewn y Senedd—o bethau megis beiciau cargo neu feiciau cargo trydan, sydd bellach ar gael yng Nghaerdydd, a allai ddosbarthu pecynnau llai o faint? Mae'n fater o arweinyddiaeth unwaith eto. Rydych wedi dangos i ni eich bod yn barod i arwain, felly a wnewch chi archwilio'r posibilrwydd hwnnw?
As with all suggestions coming from Assembly Members, we welcome those suggestions that will help us make access to the Assembly safer as well as being much more accessible.
Just to broaden it out, just a little, on your question earlier, we note and welcome that the local authority, which, of course, is responsible for the local infrastructure with regard to bikes, has plans for five new cycle tracks, including one that runs from the city centre to the bay. We provide extensive facilities, as you know from your last question, to promote active travel, including those for cycling, walking, and latterly, of course, we've introduced electric vehicle charging points. We continue to work with Sustrans to raise awareness amongst Assembly staff of the availability of sustainable travel routes both across the city and Wales in general. I know the Member for Ogmore takes a keen interest in the subject of active travel and is also an advocate of it and, indeed, leads by example, I think. But can I assure him that the Commission has a firm commitment to provide the best possible facilities for cyclists on the Assembly estate and we will continue to announce those facilities as space and opportunity permits?
Fel y gwnawn gyda'r holl awgrymiadau gan Aelodau'r Cynulliad, rydym yn croesawu'r awgrymiadau hynny a fydd yn ein helpu i sicrhau bod mynediad i'r Cynulliad yn fwy diogel ac yn fwy hygyrch.
Os caf ymhelaethu rhywfaint ar eich cwestiwn yn gynharach, rydym yn nodi ac yn croesawu'r ffaith bod gan yr awdurdod lleol, sy'n gyfrifol am y seilwaith lleol o ran beiciau wrth gwrs, gynlluniau ar gyfer pum llwybr beicio newydd, gan gynnwys un sy'n rhedeg o ganol y ddinas i'r bae. Rydym yn darparu cyfleusterau helaeth, fel y gwyddoch o'ch cwestiwn diwethaf, i hyrwyddo teithio llesol, gan gynnwys y rheini ar gyfer beicio, cerdded, ac yn fwy diweddar, wrth gwrs, rydym wedi cyflwyno mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan. Rydym yn parhau i weithio gyda Sustrans i godi ymwybyddiaeth ymhlith staff y Cynulliad o argaeledd llwybrau teithio cynaliadwy ar draws y ddinas a ledled Cymru yn gyffredinol. Gwn fod gan yr Aelod dros Ogwr ddiddordeb brwd mewn teithio llesol a'i fod yn ei hyrwyddo hefyd, ac yn arwain drwy esiampl, rwy'n credu. Ond a gaf fi ei sicrhau bod gan y Comisiwn ymrwymiad cadarn i ddarparu'r cyfleusterau gorau posibl ar gyfer beicwyr ar ystâd y Cynulliad a byddwn yn parhau i gyhoeddi'r cyfleusterau hynny fel y bydd gofod a chyfle'n caniatáu?
3. Pa gamau y mae Comisiwn y Cynulliad yn eu cymryd i sicrhau bod gan bobl anabl fynediad llawn i ystâd y Cynulliad? OAQ53721
3. What steps does the Assembly Commission take to ensure that disabled people have full access to the Assembly estate? OAQ53721
If you could just give me two seconds to catch up with my paperwork on this, please.
The Commission is fully committed to ensuring access to the Assembly estate for disabled people and this is not confined just to wheelchair accessibility but also to other disabilities, such as those for the visibly impaired and those with autism. We continually review accessibility to all buildings and equality impact assessments are made before any refurbishment or improvements are carried out. We are, of course, compliant with legislation and also follow best practice guidelines.
Os gallech roi dwy eiliad i mi ddal i fyny gyda fy ngwaith papur ar hyn, os gwelwch yn dda.
Mae'r Comisiwn wedi ymrwymo'n llwyr i sicrhau mynediad at ystâd y Cynulliad ar gyfer pobl anabl, ac nid yw hyn wedi'i gyfyngu i hygyrchedd cadeiriau olwyn yn unig ond ar gyfer anableddau eraill hefyd, megis y rheini sydd â nam ar eu golwg a'r rheini sydd ag awtistiaeth. Rydym yn parhau i adolygu hygyrchedd pob adeilad a gwneir asesiadau effaith cydraddoldeb cyn mynd ati i ailwampio neu i gyflawni unrhyw welliannau. Rydym yn cydymffurfio â deddfwriaeth, wrth gwrs, ac yn dilyn canllawiau arferion gorau hefyd.
I'm grateful to the Commissioner for his answer. It is with some regret that I have to raise a concern with him this afternoon. I recently had a disabled visitor for whom we had booked, weeks in advance, a car parking space. She's not an user of a wheelchair but she has a mobility impairment. When she arrived to take up this opportunity the space was not available to her, she was not able to park and this was even more unfortunate since she was attending the Assembly to attend the cross-party group on human rights. I'm not going to name the individual or refer to the date today, that would not be fair; I will write separately to the Commissioner in that regard. But can I ask that the Commission undertake a review of their policies with regard to the use of disabled parking spaces, to ensure that there are enough of them, to ensure that the systems—? I should emphasise that I've checked that the fault is not with my members of staff. I have checked before raising this with you that the booking was properly made.
I'm raising this here rather than writing about the one-off incident because the person concerned told me that this is not the first time that she has had this experience in this building, and if it has happened to her it may very well have happened to others. So, I would be grateful—I will write to you with the individual case so that you can look at that, but I would be very grateful if you would, as a Commission, investigate the provision of these spaces to ensure that this doesn't happen to any of our fellow disabled citizens again. I know that that would be very much what you as a Commission would wish.
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Comisiynydd am ei ateb. Mae'n flin gennyf fod yn rhaid i mi ddwyn mater sy'n peri pryder at ei sylw y prynhawn yma. Yn ddiweddar, cefais ymwelydd anabl, ac roeddem wedi archebu lle parcio ar ei chyfer wythnosau ymlaen llaw. Nid yw'n defnyddio cadair olwyn, ond mae ganddi nam symudedd. Pan gyrhaeddodd i fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn nid oedd y gofod ar gael iddi, nid oedd yn gallu parcio ac roedd hyn hyd yn oed yn fwy anffodus gan ei bod yn ymweld â'r Cynulliad i fynychu'r grŵp trawsbleidiol ar hawliau dynol. Nid wyf am enwi'r unigolyn na chyfeirio at y dyddiad heddiw, ni fyddai hynny'n deg; byddaf yn ysgrifennu at y Comisiynydd yn uniongyrchol i'r perwyl hwnnw. Ond a gaf fi ofyn i'r Comisiwn gynnal adolygiad o'u polisïau mewn perthynas â'r defnydd o leoedd parcio i'r anabl, i sicrhau bod digon ohonynt, i sicrhau bod y systemau—? Dylwn bwysleisio fy mod wedi gwirio nad oedd bai ar fy aelodau staff. Rwyf wedi gwirio, cyn codi'r mater hwn gyda chi, fod yr archeb wedi cael ei gwneud yn briodol.
Rwy'n codi hyn yma yn hytrach nag ysgrifennu am yr un digwyddiad hwn oherwydd bod y person dan sylw wedi dweud wrthyf nad dyma'r tro cyntaf iddi gael y profiad hwn yn yr adeilad hwn, ac os yw wedi digwydd iddi hi mae'n bosibl iawn ei fod wedi digwydd i eraill. Felly, buaswn yn ddiolchgar—fe ysgrifennaf atoch gyda'r achos unigol fel y gallwch edrych ar hynny, ond buaswn yn ddiolchgar iawn pe baech chi, fel Comisiwn, yn ymchwilio i'r ddarpariaeth o'r lleoedd hyn er mwyn sicrhau na fydd hyn yn digwydd i unrhyw un o'n cyd-ddinasyddion anabl eto. Gwn y byddech chi fel Comisiwn yn awyddus iawn i sicrhau hynny.
Again, I thank the Member for bringing those matters to the Commission and I can assure you that when we get more extensive information from you, we will fully investigate that. You know that we do provide disabled parking in the Senedd and the Tŷ Hywel car park, but we could obviously review those to see if they're adequate now. I have to say, the Senedd building, from its inception, was designed for disabled people. But, of course, things do move on and we will more than welcome some additional facilities if we possibly can.
Unwaith eto, diolch i'r Aelod am ddod â'r materion hynny i sylw'r Comisiwn, a phan gawn ragor o wybodaeth gennych, gallaf eich sicrhau y byddwn yn ymchwilio i'r mater hwnnw'n llawn. Gwyddoch ein bod yn darparu parcio i bobl anabl ym maes parcio Tŷ Hywel a'r Senedd, ond yn amlwg gallasem adolygu'r rheini i weld a ydynt yn ddigonol bellach. Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud bod adeilad y Senedd, ers ei sefydlu, wedi'i gynllunio ar gyfer pobl anabl. Ond wrth gwrs, mae pethau'n symud yn eu blaenau a byddwn yn sicr o groesawu cyfleusterau ychwanegol os yw hynny'n bosibl.
Question 4 is to be answered by the Llywydd. Jenny Rathbone.
Bydd cwestiwn 4 yn cael ei ateb gan y Llywydd. Jenny Rathbone.
4. A oes gan y Comisiwn strategaeth ar gyfer dadfuddsoddi mewn tanwyddau ffosil fel rhan o gronfeydd pensiwn Cynulliad Cymru? OAQ53711
4. Does the Commission have a strategy for disinvesting in fossil fuels as part of the Welsh Assembly's pension funds? OAQ53711
Ni all y Comisiwn ddylanwadu ar y modd y caiff asedau cynllun pensiwn Aelodau'r Cynulliad eu dyrannu. Mae’r pŵer i fuddsoddi asedau’r cynllun yn gyfan gwbl yn nwylo’r bwrdd pensiynau. Mae’r bwrdd hwnnw yn annibynnol o'r Comisiwn. Y bwrdd pensiynau yn ei gyfanrwydd fydd yn penderfynu sut i fuddsoddi’r asedau, a hynny ar sail y cyngor a gaiff gan ei gynghorwyr buddsoddi.
O ran staff y Comisiwn, cynllun heb ei ariannu yw cynllun pensiwn y gwasanaeth sifil ac felly nid oes ganddo asedau i’w buddsoddi. Defnyddir refeniw trethi i dalu’r buddion yn hytrach nag asedau a roddir o’r neilltu.
The Commission has no means to influence the allocation of the Assembly Members' pension scheme’s assets. The power to invest the scheme’s assets sits entirely with the pension board, which is independent of the Commission. The pension board as a whole will decide where to invest those assets, based on advice received from the board’s investment advisers.
For Commission staff, the civil service pension scheme is an unfunded scheme and therefore has no assets to invest. Benefits are paid from tax revenues rather than from assets set aside to pay them.
Thank you for that. I just wondered what correspondence you have with the independent remuneration board about the investment strategy you wish them to pursue in relation to the Assembly Members' pension fund, because it seems to me it's impossible for us to encourage local authorities to disinvest from fossil fuels, in line with the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, unless we put our own house in order. There must have been some correspondence, surely, in relation to that, even though I appreciate that Assembly Members and the Commission have no actual input into where investments are made.
Diolch i chi am hynny. Roeddwn yn meddwl tybed pa ohebiaeth sydd rhyngoch a'r bwrdd taliadau annibynnol ynghylch y strategaeth fuddsoddi rydych eisiau iddynt ei dilyn mewn perthynas â chronfa bensiwn Aelodau'r Cynulliad, oherwydd ymddengys i mi ei bod yn amhosibl i ni annog awdurdodau lleol i ddadfuddsoddi mewn tanwyddau ffosil, yn unol â Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015, oni bai ein bod yn rhoi trefn ar ein pethau ein hunain. Mae'n rhaid bod rhywfaint o ohebiaeth wedi bod mewn perthynas â hynny, er fy mod yn sylweddoli nad oes gan Aelodau'r Cynulliad na'r Comisiwn unrhyw fewnbwn gwirioneddol o ran y buddsoddiadau a wneir.
Well, this is the responsibility of the pension board, not the remuneration board, and we do elect representatives from our midst, current AMs and former AMs, to represent and sit on the pension board and it's the pension board's independent decision, then, to look at its investment strategy. I'm not sure whether any of the Members present in the Chamber at the moment are members of the pension board, but that information is available to you should you seek to write to the pension board directly.
Wel, cyfrifoldeb y bwrdd pensiynau yw hyn, nid y bwrdd taliadau, ac rydym yn ethol cynrychiolwyr o'n plith, Aelodau Cynulliad presennol a chyn-Aelodau Cynulliad, i gynrychioli ac i fod yn aelodau o'r bwrdd pensiynau a phenderfyniad annibynnol y bwrdd pensiynau felly yw edrych ar ei strategaeth fuddsoddi. Nid wyf yn siŵr a oes unrhyw Aelodau sy'n bresennol yn y Siambr ar hyn o bryd yn aelodau o'r bwrdd pensiynau, ond mae'r wybodaeth honno ar gael i chi os ydych yn bwriadu ysgrifennu at y bwrdd pensiynau yn uniongyrchol.
A gaf i, felly, ofyn—? Yn amlwg, dyw e ddim yn benderfyniad mae’r Comisiwn yn ei wneud, ond dwi’n siŵr bod gan y Comisiwn farn ar y mater yma, neu byddwn i’n licio meddwl bod gan y Comisiwn farn ar y mater yma. A fyddai’r Comisiwn yn barod i gydlynu llythyr gan holl Aelodau’r Cynulliad, wedi'i gyd-arwyddo, at y bwrdd pensiynau, yn gofyn iddyn nhw i edrych ar hyn ac i edrych ar y mater ar frys?
May I ask, therefore—? Clearly it's not a decision that the Commission can make, but I'm sure that the Commission has a view on this issue, or I'd like to think at least that the Commission has a view on the issue. Would the Commission be willing to co-ordinate correspondence from all Assembly Members, which they could co-sign, to the pension board, asking them to look at this and to look at the issue as a matter of urgency?
Wel, mae’r bwrdd pensiynau, fel dwi wedi dweud, yn annibynnol o’r Comisiwn, a does gyda ni ddim cyfrifoldeb na chwaith benderfyniad polisi ar hyn. Dyw e ddim yn fater rŷn ni wedi edrych arno, oherwydd bod y cyfrifoldeb yn gorwedd rhywle arall.
Fel dwi wedi dweud, mae yna gynrychiolwyr o’r Cynulliad yma ar y bwrdd pensiynau. Dwi ddim yn gwybod eu henwau nhw ar hyn o bryd, i’w henwi nhw fan hyn yn gyhoeddus, ond fe fyddwn i’n meddwl ei fod e'n fater i bob plaid, i bob Aelod fan hyn, i fod yn llythyru gyda’r bwrdd pensiynau yn uniongyrchol eu hunain i fod yn dwyn sylw at y materion yma, sydd yn amlwg yn faterion o ddiddordeb ac o gonsérn i Aelodau. Mae wedi codi yn ystod cwestiynau i’r Comisiwn y prynhawn yma a hefyd y cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog Cyllid ynghynt yn y prynhawn. Felly, a gaf i eich annog chi i gyd i ystyried ysgrifennu’n uniongyrchol at y bwrdd pensiynau?
Well, the pension board, as I've said, is independent of the Commission, and we don't have responsibility and neither do we have a policy decision on this. It's not a matter that we have looked at, because the responsibility lies somewhere else.
As I've said, there are representatives from this Assembly on the pension board. I don't know their names currently, to name them here publicly, but I would think that it is an issue for every party, for every Member here, to be corresponding with the pension board directly themselves to draw their attention to these issues, which clearly are of interest and concern to Members. It's been raised during the Commission's questions this afternoon and also during questions to the finance Minister earlier this afternoon. So, may I encourage you all to consider writing directly to the pension board?
Thank you very much. Thank you, Llywydd.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Diolch, Lywydd.
Item 4 is topical questions. The first topical question this afternoon is from Lynne Neagle, to be answered by the Minister for Health and Social Services. Lynne.
Eitem 4 yw'r cwestiynau amserol. Daw'r cwestiwn amserol cyntaf y prynhawn yma gan Lynne Neagle, a bydd yn cael ei ateb gan y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Lynne.
1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am fynediad at ofal cleifion mewnol CAMHS i blant a phobl ifanc risg uchel yng Nghymru? 298
1. Will the Minister provide an update on access to CAMHS inpatient care for high risk children and young people in Wales? 298
Thank you for the question. Hospitalisation is increasingly seen as a last resort and more young people now receive their care within their local community. To help meet the needs of young people who require in-patient care, we’ve invested £42 million in dedicated child and adolescent mental health service provision in Wales, leading to a reduction in those sent out of area.
The position on access was set out in my letter to the Chair of the Children, Young People and Education Committee on 25 February. A further update is due imminently to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, in response to the Chair of that committee’s letter of 7 March.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn. Mae mwyfwy o unigolion yn credu mai dewis olaf yw mynd i'r ysbyty, ac mae mwy o bobl ifanc yn derbyn eu gofal o fewn eu cymuned leol bellach. Er mwyn helpu i ddiwallu anghenion pobl ifanc sydd angen gofal cleifion mewnol, rydym wedi buddsoddi £42 miliwn mewn gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl penodol ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc yng Nghymru, gan arwain at ostyngiad yn nifer y rheini sy'n cael eu hanfon o'r ardal.
Nodwyd y sefyllfa o ran mynediad yn fy llythyr at Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg ar 25 Chwefror. Mae diweddariad pellach ar y ffordd i'r Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon, mewn ymateb i lythyr a anfonwyd gan Gadeirydd y pwyllgor hwnnw ar 7 Mawrth.
Thank you, Minister. I am deeply concerned that restrictions continue to be necessary at both CAMHS in-patient units in Wales, meaning that they are unable to care for young people who are at risk of suicide or self-harm. You will be aware that Healthcare Inspectorate Wales has again called for action on this in their report on services for children and young people, published just last week, and in doing so have emphasised that they’ve been raising these concerns since as long ago as 2013. My committee has been raising this with Welsh Government as far back as our ‘Mind over matter’ report last year.
I do understand that many more young people are now treated by teams in the community, but there are nevertheless those who do need admission to an in-patient unit. And it cannot be right that some of our most vulnerable young people have to be placed out of Wales, far more their families and support. It also raises serious questions about how we effectively ensure the quality and safety of such placements, which can be hundreds of miles away.
Minister, when can we expect our in-patient units to be in a position to admit young people at risk of suicide or self-harm? What assurances can you give in the meantime that there are robust and comprehensive processes in place for ensuring any out-of-Wales placements are safe and high quality? And, finally, given that predicting the risk of suicide is not an exact science, especially in a young person, what assurances can you give that a young patient who has not been identified as high risk will receive safe care in our CAMHS in-patient units?
Diolch i chi, Weinidog. Rwy'n pryderu'n fawr fod cyfyngiadau'n parhau i fod yn angenrheidiol yn yr unedau cleifion mewnol CAMHS yng Nghymru, sy'n golygu nad ydynt yn gallu gofalu am bobl ifanc sydd mewn perygl o hunan-niweidio neu gyflawni hunanladdiad. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol fod Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru wedi galw unwaith eto am gamau gweithredu ar hyn yn eu hadroddiad ar wasanaethau ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc, a gyhoeddwyd yr wythnos diwethaf, ac wrth wneud hynny, maent wedi pwysleisio eu bod wedi bod yn codi'r pryderon hyn ers mor bell yn ôl â 2013. Mae fy mhwyllgor wedi bod yn codi hyn gyda Llywodraeth Cymru ers ein hadroddiad 'Cadernid Meddwl' y llynedd.
Rwy'n deall bod llawer mwy o bobl ifanc yn cael eu trin gan dimau yn y gymuned bellach, ond mae yna rai, serch hynny, sydd angen mynd i uned ar gyfer cleifion mewnol. Ac ni all fod yn iawn fod rhai o'n pobl ifanc mwyaf agored i niwed yn gorfod cael eu lleoli y tu allan i Gymru, ymhell oddi wrth eu teuluoedd a chymorth. Mae hefyd yn codi cwestiynau difrifol ynglŷn â sut yr awn ati mewn modd effeithiol i sicrhau ansawdd a diogelwch lleoliadau o'r fath, sy'n gallu bod cannoedd o filltiroedd i ffwrdd.
Weinidog, pryd y gallwn ddisgwyl i'n hunedau cleifion mewnol fod mewn sefyllfa i dderbyn pobl ifanc sydd mewn perygl o hunan-niweidio neu gyflawni hunanladdiad? Yn y cyfamser, pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi i ni fod prosesau cadarn a chynhwysfawr ar waith i sicrhau bod unrhyw leoliadau y tu allan i Gymru yn ddiogel ac o ansawdd da? Ac yn olaf, o ystyried nad yw rhagweld y perygl y bydd rhywun yn cyflawni hunanladdiad yn wyddor fanwl, yn enwedig mewn person ifanc, pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi y bydd claf ifanc nad yw wedi'i nodi fel claf risg uchel yn cael gofal diogel yn ein hunedau cleifion mewnol CAMHS?
Thank you for the follow-up questions. I do recognise the importance and the seriousness of this matter. Because we're not able to have full capacity, as we would otherwise want to, it's a combination of different factors in the north Wales unit compared to south Wales, but we think there are single figures of children and young people who have been placed outside of Wales because of those restrictions. So, single figures are small, but for each person there's a family and a context, and that's not the sort of care and the location of care that we want to be able to provide. It's not what the investment we've made and the capital is supposed to provide either.
On Tŷ Llidiard, specifically, that you mention, you'll be aware that we do need to make improvements to the physical estate. Part of that work has been completed; the rest of that work is due to be completed within the year 2019-20. I'll happily write to the Member and both committees that take an interest in this to give a clearer indication of when that work should be completed.
On your broader point about—. If you like, two slightly different points. One on how we assure ourselves about the quality of care out of area and out of country: that is a real challenge and that's a challenge for the commissioners and the framework that is provided and that's monitored through a quality assurance and improvement service. They undertake site audits and monitor performance, and the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee receive regular monthly returns from the two Welsh units that are currently providing care.
So, again, I recognise the point you make that you cannot always tell if someone is having suicidal thoughts. So, the challenge is about making sure that the quality of care is appropriate. That's part of the challenge about why we're not admitting some people into those units now where that is a known risk. But that's why there is regular reporting back to WHSSC, to the quality team, whilst there is an escalation process in place. And that is an enhanced escalation process—that is not the normal way of operating because we do have concerns about our capacity to safely manage care. It is not the position that I or anyone else would want us to be in. I will provide the updates I've indicated to Members and specifically to the committees, and I'll outline in more detail in my letter that I will be sending to the health committee—I'll make sure a copy goes to the children and young people's committee, because I recognise both subject committees are maintaining a direct interest in this matter—and will continue to do so until we're in a different position.
Diolch i chi am y cwestiynau dilynol. Rwy'n cydnabod pwysigrwydd a difrifoldeb y mater hwn. Gan nad ydym yn gallu cael capasiti llawn, fel y byddem ei eisiau fel arall, mae'n gyfuniad o ffactorau gwahanol yn yr uned yng ngogledd Cymru o gymharu â de Cymru, ond rydym yn credu bod nifer lai na deg o blant a phobl ifanc wedi'u lleoli y tu allan i Gymru oherwydd y cyfyngiadau hynny. Felly, mae llai na deg yn nifer fach, ond mae gan bob person deulu a chyd-destun, ac nid dyna'r math o ofal a lleoliad gofal rydym eisiau gallu ei ddarparu. Nid dyna y mae'r buddsoddiad rydym wedi'i wneud a'r cyfalaf i fod i'w ddarparu ychwaith.
Mewn perthynas â Thŷ Llidiard, a grybwyllwyd gennych yn benodol, fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol fod angen i ni wneud gwelliannau i'r ystâd ffisegol. Mae rhan o'r gwaith hwnnw wedi'i gwblhau; disgwylir y bydd gweddill y gwaith hwnnw'n cael ei gwblhau o fewn y flwyddyn 2019-20. Rwy'n hapus i ysgrifennu at yr Aelod a'r ddau bwyllgor sydd â diddordeb yn y mater hwn i roi arwydd cliriach o ran pryd y dylai'r gwaith hwnnw gael ei gwblhau.
O ran eich pwynt ehangach am—. Os hoffech, dau bwynt ychydig yn wahanol. Un ar sut rydym yn rhoi sicrwydd i ni'n hunain ynglŷn ag ansawdd y gofal y tu allan i'r ardal a'r tu allan i'r wlad: mae honno'n her go iawn ac yn her i'r comisiynwyr a'r fframwaith sy'n cael ei ddarparu a'i fonitro drwy wasanaeth sicrhau a gwella ansawdd. Maent yn cynnal archwiliadau safle ac yn monitro perfformiad, ac mae Pwyllgor Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol Cymru yn derbyn adroddiadau misol rheolaidd gan y ddwy uned sy'n darparu gofal yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd.
Felly, unwaith eto, rwy'n cydnabod y pwynt rydych yn ei wneud nad yw hi bob amser yn bosibl dweud a yw rhywun yn cael teimladau hunanladdol. Felly, mae'r her yn ymwneud â gwneud yn siŵr fod ansawdd y gofal yn briodol. Dyna ran o'r her o ran pam nad ydym yn derbyn rhai pobl i'r unedau hynny yn awr lle mae honno'n risg y gwyddys amdani. Ond dyna pam fod adroddiadau rheolaidd yn cael eu gwneud i Bwyllgor Gwasanaethau Iechyd Arbenigol Cymru, i'r tîm ansawdd, tra bo proses uwchgyfeirio ar waith. Ac mae honno'n broses uwchgyfeirio ychwanegol—nid dyna'r ffordd arferol o weithredu oherwydd mae gennym bryderon ynglŷn â'n capasiti i reoli gofal yn ddiogel. Nid yw'n sefyllfa rwyf fi nag unrhyw un arall eisiau bod ynddi. Byddaf yn darparu'r diweddariadau a nodais i'r Aelodau ac yn benodol i'r pwyllgorau, a byddaf yn amlinellu'n fanylach yn y llythyr y byddaf yn ei anfon at y pwyllgor iechyd—byddaf yn sicrhau bod copi yn mynd i'r pwyllgor plant a phobl ifanc, oherwydd rwy'n cydnabod bod gan y ddau bwyllgor ddiddordeb uniongyrchol yn y mater hwn—a byddaf yn parhau i wneud hynny hyd nes ein bod mewn sefyllfa wahanol.
Thank you, Minister, for your statement. I'm delighted that Lynne Neagle has brought this issue up once again in this Chamber this afternoon, because, as you will know, there is a child and adolescent mental health unit with in-patient capacity in my own constituency, in the town of Abergele. It was built almost 10 years ago now, back in 2009, with a capacity of 18 beds, which was to serve the north Wales area, and, unfortunately, those beds have never been fully occupied or fully opened, and we still face individuals being sent many hundreds of miles away from north Wales when only 12 of the beds are currently commissioned at our own flagship unit.
Now, I'm sure that more people could benefit from this facility if it were up to full capacity in terms of its bed use. I'm sure there would be people who would be sent in to north Wales from outside of the north Wales area as well in order to occupy those beds if they were available. And I wonder whether you could give us an update today on what action is being taken by the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board to make sure that there are sufficient beds in north Wales for the young people who might need in-patient facilities in our own region. I accept there will sometimes be specialist cases where there's a need for some very specialist provision that cannot be accommodated in one of these more generalised units. I understand and accept that that might be the case from time to time, but, clearly, there are young people who could benefit from these facilities in Wales who are currently being sent over the border to England. We can easily monitor the quality and effectiveness of the care. There isn't the problem with the commissioners having to face the challenge of monitoring something hundreds of miles away. This is within Wales, this is within the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. So, can I ask, will you be working with the health board in north Wales to increase the in-patient capacity at Abergele and what work is being done within the health board to recruit, if necessary, the extra health professionals in order to man those additional beds, should you be planning to open them?
Diolch i chi am eich datganiad, Weinidog. Rwy'n falch iawn fod Lynne Neagle wedi codi'r mater hwn unwaith eto yn y Siambr y prynhawn yma, oherwydd, fel y gwyddoch, mae uned iechyd meddwl ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc, gyda chapasiti cleifion mewnol, yn fy etholaeth fy hun, yn nhref Abergele. Cafodd ei hadeiladu bron i 10 mlynedd yn ôl bellach, yn ôl yn 2009, gyda chapasiti o 18 o welyau, i wasanaethu ardal gogledd Cymru, ac yn anffodus, nid yw'r gwelyau hynny erioed wedi cael eu defnyddio'n llawn neu ar agor yn llawn, ac rydym yn dal i wynebu'r posibilrwydd y bydd unigolion yn cael eu hanfon gannoedd o filltiroedd i ffwrdd o ogledd Cymru pan nad oes ond 12 yn unig o'r gwelyau wedi'u comisiynu yn ein huned flaenllaw ein hunain ar hyn o bryd.
Nawr, rwy'n siŵr y gallai mwy o bobl elwa o'r cyfleuster hwn pe bai wedi'i lenwi hyd at gapasiti llawn o ran y defnydd o welyau. Rwy'n siŵr y byddai rhai pobl yn cael eu hanfon i ogledd Cymru o'r tu allan i ardal gogledd Cymru hefyd er mwyn llenwi'r gwelyau hynny pe baent ar gael. Ac rwy'n meddwl tybed a allech roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i ni heddiw ar ba gamau a gymerir gan Fwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr i sicrhau bod digon o welyau yng ngogledd Cymru ar gyfer y bobl ifanc a allai fod angen cyfleusterau cleifion mewnol yn ein rhanbarth. Rwy'n derbyn y bydd yna achosion arbenigol weithiau lle bydd angen darpariaeth arbenigol iawn na ellir ei darparu yn un o'r unedau mwy cyffredinol hyn. Rwy'n deall ac yn derbyn y gallai hynny ddigwydd o bryd i'w gilydd, ond yn amlwg, mae yna bobl ifanc a allai elwa o'r cyfleusterau hyn yng Nghymru sy'n cael eu hanfon dros y ffin i Loegr ar hyn o bryd. Gallwn fonitro ansawdd ac effeithiolrwydd y gofal yn hawdd. Nid oes problem gyda'r comisiynwyr yn gorfod wynebu'r her o fonitro rhywbeth gannoedd o filltiroedd i ffwrdd. Mae hyn yng Nghymru, o fewn Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Felly, a gaf fi ofyn, a fyddwch yn gweithio gyda'r bwrdd iechyd yng ngogledd Cymru i gynyddu capasiti cleifion mewnol yn Abergele, a pha waith sy'n cael ei wneud o fewn y bwrdd iechyd i recriwtio gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol ychwanegol, os oes angen, er mwyn gofalu am y gwelyau ychwanegol hynny, os ydych yn bwriadu eu hagor?
There are two points there that I think I should respond to. The first is the point about the numbers of beds that we have. We're at commissioned capacity in Tŷ Llidiard. We're below commissioned capacity—and, actually, we're commissioning 12 of those potential 18 beds—in north Wales. That's partly about the complexity and the space needed, but it is also, partly, about staff. And so there are 10 beds commissioned and in use, and they have been able to move up to 12; they had to move back down to 10, because of challenges about recruiting staff to work permanently in the facility, so I recognise that staffing is an issue. And resource isn't a problem—it's not that the health board are refusing to put staff in or holding open the vacancies; it's about our ability to recruit people into the service. And so we're operating 10 beds because it's safe to do so.
The further challenge then is, I guess, about the number of commissioned beds in any event. Actually, at present, the guidance from the Royal College of Psychiatrists actually shows that we are above the level of population to beds that they suggest we have across the country. But, in terms of reviewing our capacity, then of course we'll be informed by the level of need, and to see how many people could be served. Because, as I said, I recognise that, because we have not been able to safely staff all of the beds that we have commissioned, single figures of children and young people from Wales have gone out of the country when they could otherwise have been in those facilities within NHS Wales. So, it is a real issue for all of those children and young people and their families, and so, yes, I'm determined to provide an update that you and other Members will expect—and the undertakings I've given to Lynne Neagle about making sure that both subject committees are kept informed of progress.
Mae dau bwynt rwy'n credu y dylwn ymateb iddynt. Y cyntaf yw'r pwynt am y nifer o welyau sydd gennym. Rydym wedi llenwi'r capasiti a gomisiynwyd yn Nhŷ Llidiard. Nid ydym wedi llenwi'r capasiti a gomisiynwyd—ac mewn gwirionedd, rydym yn comisiynu 12 o'r 18 gwely posibl—yng ngogledd Cymru. Mae hynny'n ymwneud yn rhannol â'r cymhlethdod a'r lle sydd ei angen, ond mae hefyd yn ymwneud, yn rhannol, â staff. Ac felly, mae 10 o welyau wedi cael eu comisiynu ac yn cael eu defnyddio, ac maent wedi gallu cynyddu i 12; bu'n rhaid iddynt symud yn ôl i lawr i 10, oherwydd heriau o ran recriwtio staff i weithio'n barhaol yn y cyfleuster, felly rwy'n cydnabod bod staffio'n broblem. Ac nid yw adnoddau'n broblem—nid yw fel pe bai'r bwrdd iechyd yn gwrthod penodi staff neu'n cadw swyddi'n wag; mae'n ymwneud â'n gallu i recriwtio pobl i'r gwasanaeth. Ac felly rydym yn gweithredu 10 gwely gan ei bod yn ddiogel i wneud hynny.
Mae'r her arall, mae'n debyg, yn ymwneud â nifer y gwelyau a gomisiynwyd beth bynnag. Mewn gwirionedd, ar hyn o bryd, mae canllawiau gan Goleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion yn dangos ein bod uwchlaw'r lefel poblogaeth/gwelyau y maent yn awgrymu y dylai fod gennym ar draws y wlad. Ond o ran adolygu ein capasiti, byddwn yn cael ein llywio gan lefel yr angen wrth gwrs, ac yn gweld faint o bobl y gallwn eu gwasanaethu. Fel y dywedais, oherwydd nad ydym wedi llwyddo i staffio'r holl welyau a gomisiynwyd gennym yn ddiogel, rwy'n cydnabod bod nifer lai na deg o blant a phobl ifanc o Gymru wedi mynd allan o'r wlad pan allent fod wedi bod yn y cyfleusterau GIG Cymru hynny fel arall. Felly, mae'n broblem go iawn i'r holl blant a phobl ifanc hynny a'u teuluoedd, ac felly, ydw, rwy'n benderfynol o ddarparu'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf y byddwch chi a'r Aelodau eraill yn ei disgwyl—a'r ymrwymiad a roddais i Lynne Neagle ynglŷn â gwneud yn siŵr fod y ddau bwyllgor pwnc yn cael y newyddion diweddaraf ar gynnydd.
Can I associate myself with everything that Lynne Neagle has said, and Darren Millar, about the seriousness of the situation? The Minister says that the current level of capacity reflects the level of what we would expect from population, but, clearly, it doesn't reflect the level of need, if we continually have, for that very small number of young people, accommodation facilities outside Wales. Given that the Minister has told us that we think we're talking in single figures here, is there more that the Minister can do to increase the capacity and to ensure that the capacity is in the correct locations, as well as being safely staffed? Does the Minister agree with me that young people should only be being treated with these serious conditions outside Wales if their condition requires it—if their condition is so unusual that we simply could not—not only that we cannot at present, but that we simply could not—meaningfully provide for that very particular need within our own country? And, accepting everything that he's said today, that he will take steps to try to address this, there is a slight sense that we have, as Lynne Neagle said, been raising these issues for a number of years. But, if we are still in a situation where young people are being treated outside Wales—even if we all accept that that isn't what we want to see—what further steps can the Minister take to ensure that young people being treated outside Wales are appropriately monitored, that we know that their care reaches the standards that we here in Wales expect, and that they are regularly visited by appropriate professionals, as well as by their families, to make sure that they are as safe and as comfortable and, I would say, as happy as they possibly can be?
A gaf fi gytuno â phopeth a ddywedodd Lynne Neagle, a Darren Millar, am ddifrifoldeb y sefyllfa? Dywed y Gweinidog fod lefel y capasiti ar hyn o bryd yn adlewyrchu lefel yr hyn y byddem yn ei ddisgwyl yn y boblogaeth, ond yn amlwg, nid yw'n adlewyrchu lefel yr angen, os ydym yn parhau i fod â chyfleusterau llety y tu allan i Gymru ar gyfer y nifer fach honno o bobl ifanc. O gofio bod y Gweinidog wedi dweud wrthym ein bod yn credu ein bod yn sôn am nifer lai na deg yma, a oes mwy y gall y Gweinidog ei wneud i gynyddu'r capasiti a sicrhau bod y capasiti yn y lleoliadau cywir, yn ogystal â bod wedi ei staffio'n ddiogel? A yw'r Gweinidog yn cytuno â mi na ddylid trin pobl ifanc gyda'r cyflyrau difrifol hyn y tu allan i Gymru heblaw bod eu cyflwr yn gwneud hynny'n angenrheidiol—os yw eu cyflwr mor anarferol fel na allem—nid yn unig na allwn ar hyn o bryd, ond fel na allem—ddarparu'n ystyrlon ar gyfer yr angen penodol iawn hwnnw yn ein gwlad ein hunain? Ac o dderbyn popeth y mae wedi'i ddweud heddiw, y bydd yn cymryd camau i geisio mynd i'r afael â hyn, mae yna ymdeimlad bach ein bod, fel y dywedodd Lynne Neagle, wedi bod yn codi'r materion hyn ers nifer o flynyddoedd. Ond os ydym yn dal i fod mewn sefyllfa lle mae pobl ifanc yn cael eu trin y tu allan i Gymru—hyd yn oed os ydym i gyd yn derbyn nad dyna rydym eisiau ei weld—pa gamau pellach y gall y Gweinidog eu cymryd i sicrhau bod pobl ifanc sy'n cael eu trin y tu allan i Gymru yn cael eu monitro'n briodol, ein bod yn gwybod bod eu gofal yn cyrraedd y safonau rydym yn eu disgwyl yma yng Nghymru, a bod gweithwyr proffesiynol priodol, yn ogystal â'u teuluoedd, yn ymweld â hwy'n rheolaidd, i wneud yn siŵr eu bod mor ddiogel a chyfforddus a, buaswn yn dweud, mor hapus ag y gallant fod?
I think there were two questions there. In relation to the second one, about the model and the quality of placements outside of Wales, I think I dealt with that in response to questions asked by Lynne Neagle in her supplementary. And I'll certainly be addressing that to provide a written level of detail to the two committees, as I've indicated in the undertakings I've given in response to Lynne Neagle's questions.
On your other question, about capacity and need, I'm happy to give her—and all Members—the assurance that my expectation is that we should put ourselves into a position where NHS Wales only helps to place children and young people outside of Wales where it's their need that drives that, rather than capacity. And so we will, of course, need to look at the capacity that we have and to see that that is matching need. The guidance—it is guidance, as opposed to a hard-and-fast rule from the royal college—suggests that we have sufficient capacity, if we're able to sufficiently staff those. And it's actually north Wales where there's more of an issue about appropriate staffing. We will then be able to—with the commissioned capacity in Tŷ Llidiard, we expect that staffing isn't going to be a concern—make sure that all those beds are properly and safely staffed. So, I'm happy to confirm that this is not a matter of simply tolerating forever and a day the fact that people are being placed outside of Wales when it's not their care needs that drive that placement.
Credaf fod dau gwestiwn yno. O ran yr ail un, ynglŷn â'r model ac ansawdd y lleoliadau y tu allan i Gymru, credaf fy mod wedi ymdrin â hynny mewn ymateb i'r cwestiynau a ofynnodd Lynne Neagle yn ei chwestiwn atodol. A byddaf yn sicr yn mynd i'r afael â hynny er mwyn darparu lefel ysgrifenedig o fanylder i'r ddau bwyllgor, fel y nodais yn yr ymrwymiad a roddais mewn ymateb i gwestiynau Lynne Neagle.
Ar eich cwestiwn arall, ynglŷn â chapasiti ac angen, rwy'n hapus i roi sicrwydd iddi—ac i'r holl Aelodau—fy mod yn disgwyl i ni roi ein hunain mewn sefyllfa lle nad yw GIG Cymru ond yn helpu i leoli plant a phobl ifanc y tu allan i Gymru oherwydd eu bod angen hynny, yn hytrach nag oherwydd capasiti. Ac felly wrth gwrs, bydd angen inni edrych ar y capasiti sydd gennym a gweld bod hwnnw'n cyd-fynd â'r angen. Mae'r canllawiau—a chanllawiau ydynt, yn hytrach na rheol bendant gan y coleg brenhinol—yn awgrymu bod gennym ddigon o gapasiti, os ydym yn gallu staffio'r lleoedd hynny'n ddigonol. Ac yng ngogledd Cymru y mae'r broblem fwyaf mewn perthynas â staffio priodol mewn gwirionedd. Byddwn yn gallu sicrhau wedyn—rydym yn disgwyl na fydd staffio'n broblem gyda'r capasiti a gomisiynwyd yn Nhŷ Llidiard—fod yr holl welyau hynny wedi'u staffio'n briodol ac yn ddiogel. Felly, rwy'n hapus i gadarnhau nad yw hyn yn fater o oddef yn ddiderfyn y ffaith bod pobl yn cael eu lleoli y tu allan i Gymru pan nad yw eu hanghenion gofal yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol iddynt fynd i'r lleoliad hwnnw.
Minister, I think that many Members in this Chamber would have dealt with often distressing cases involving this particular aspect of care and we're talking about some of the most vulnerable young people in society. I've had experience of cases where the treatment plan has not, really, been very successful after in-patient admission and, in fact, repeat admissions have occurred and this is very, very disruptive. Also, the way parents and carers are involved in the treatment plans can sometimes leave something to be desired. When patients are exhibiting these very distressing symptoms, we really do need to ensure that, when the patients leave in-patient care, they're still getting very specialist treatment—intensive treatment—and particularly that the diagnostic work that needs to be done is done effectively, because, sometimes, there's real doubt as to the best pathway for these often very troubled individuals under great distress.
Weinidog, credaf y bydd llawer o Aelodau yn y Siambr hon wedi ymdrin ag achosion sy'n peri gofid yn aml mewn perthynas â'r agwedd benodol hon ar ofal ac rydym yn sôn am rai o'r bobl ifanc fwyaf agored i niwed yn y gymdeithas. Rwyf wedi cael profiad o achosion lle nad yw'r cynllun triniaeth wedi bod yn llwyddiannus iawn, mewn gwirionedd, ar ôl i unigolion gael eu derbyn fel cleifion mewnol ac maent wedi gorfod mynd yn ôl i ofal ac mae hyn yn aflonyddgar iawn. Hefyd weithiau, mae lle i wella'r ffordd y mae rhieni a gofalwyr yn cael eu cynnwys yn y cynlluniau triniaeth. Pan fo cleifion yn arddangos y symptomau gofidus hyn, mae angen i ni sicrhau, pan fo cleifion yn gadael gofal cleifion mewnol, eu bod yn parhau i dderbyn triniaeth arbenigol iawn—triniaeth ddwys—ac yn fwyaf arbennig, fod y gwaith diagnostig sydd angen ei wneud yn cael ei wneud yn effeithiol, oherwydd weithiau, ceir amheuaeth go iawn ynglŷn â'r llwybr gorau ar gyfer yr unigolion hyn sydd mewn trallod mawr yn aml iawn.
I recognise completely the points that the Member makes. I, as a constituency Member, have had casework and met families who are in a very, very difficult position and haven't felt well supported by the system. So, we have not just put resource—financial resource and more staffing—into the broad CAMHS service, but, of course, this goes into our earlier prevention and intervention work, as well as not just the response to 'Mind over matter', but actually the point about what support is available, after admission, for those people who have been in in-patient care.
The Healthcare Inspectorate Wales thematic report—the positive news is that, overall, they found that young people had predominantly good experiences of care, with staff who were compassionate and providing dignified and person-centred care. But that highlights again that it's possible and it's also why there's such a need for improvement for those people where we don't think that has happened and why I know that you'll have seen, and other Members will have seen, examples of where families do not feel that that has happened. So, that's work that carries on, not just in conversations between the Government and health boards, but actually between the health service and people who are using the service to understand whether we're actually meeting our aspirations.
If the Member has individual examples of where families do not believe that has happened, I would always be interested in receiving details of those to actually be able to take them up directly with that part of the health service.
Rwy'n cydnabod y pwyntiau a wna'r Aelod yn llwyr. Rwyf fi, fel Aelod etholaeth, wedi cael gwaith achos ac wedi cyfarfod â theuluoedd sydd mewn sefyllfa anodd iawn ac nad ydynt yn teimlo eu bod wedi cael cefnogaeth dda gan y system. Felly, nid yn unig ein bod wedi rhoi adnoddau—adnoddau ariannol a mwy o staffio—i'r gwasanaeth CAMHS cyffredinol, ond wrth gwrs, mae hyn yn cysylltu â'n gwaith atal ac ymyrraeth gynharach, yn ogystal â'r ymateb i 'Cadernid Meddwl', a hefyd mewn gwirionedd, y pwynt ynglŷn â pha gefnogaeth sydd ar gael, ar ôl iddynt gael eu derbyn, i'r bobl sydd wedi'u derbyn i ofal cleifion mewnol.
O ran adroddiad thematig Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru—y newyddion cadarnhaol yw eu bod wedi canfod at ei gilydd fod y rhan fwyaf o bobl ifanc yn cael profiadau da o ofal, gyda staff a oedd yn dosturiol ac yn darparu gofal urddasol yn canolbwyntio ar unigolion. Ond mae hynny'n amlygu, unwaith eto, ei fod yn bosibl, a dyna pam hefyd fod cymaint o angen gwella profiadau'r bobl hynny lle nad ydym yn credu bod hynny wedi digwydd a pham y gwn y byddwch wedi gweld, ac y bydd Aelodau eraill wedi gweld, enghreifftiau o lle nad yw teuluoedd yn teimlo bod hynny wedi digwydd. Felly, mae'r gwaith hwnnw'n mynd rhagddo, nid yn unig mewn sgyrsiau rhwng y Llywodraeth a byrddau iechyd, ond rhwng y gwasanaeth iechyd a phobl sy'n defnyddio'r gwasanaeth i weld a ydym yn cyflawni ein dyheadau.
Os oes gan yr Aelod enghreifftiau unigol o achosion lle nad yw teuluoedd yn credu bod hynny wedi digwydd, mae gennyf ddiddordeb bob amser mewn cael manylion am y rheini er mwyn gallu eu codi'n uniongyrchol gyda'r rhan honno o'r gwasanaeth iechyd.
In relation to the case of Claire Greaves—the tragic case—this was obviously a case of anorexia as well as personality disorder from an early age. My interest is in trying to understand, as part of the eating disorders review, whether you are considering a discussion, a wider discussion, about an eating disorders in-patient unit or units in Wales, not directly as a consequence of this, but as a consequence of the calls, over many years, by patients and carers.
When Mark Drakeford, the current First Minister, was the health Minister, he said that he was intent on repatriating many of the young people who were in units across the border, and it may be that we can discuss the level of care in this case or we may not, but what's important here is that we have a level of provision in this nation of ours whereby people are close enough to their loved ones so that they don't feel that they're in these types of positions. So, I'm wanting to understand what you can do to ensure that we have an open debate about the possibilities of this added dimension that wasn't included in the initial framework because of the way in which the framework was delivered on that regional hub basis. I think the time has come whereby we do really need to revisit that model, not only for this case in itself, but for other young people across Wales who are in the same position.
Mewn perthynas ag achos Claire Greaves—yr achos trasig—roedd hwn yn amlwg yn achos o anorecsia yn ogystal ag anhwylder personoliaeth o oedran cynnar. Fel rhan o'r adolygiad ar anhwylderau bwyta, hoffwn wybod a ydych yn ystyried trafodaeth, trafodaeth ehangach, ar anhwylderau bwyta mewn uned neu unedau cleifion mewnol yng Nghymru, nid yn uniongyrchol o ganlyniad i hyn, ond o ganlyniad i'r galw sydd wedi bod, dros flynyddoedd lawer, gan gleifion a gofalwyr.
Pan oedd Mark Drakeford, y Prif Weinidog presennol, yn Weinidog iechyd, dywedodd ei fod yn benderfynol o ddod â llawer o'r bobl ifanc a oedd mewn unedau dros y ffin yn ôl i'r wlad hon, ac efallai y gallwn drafod lefel y gofal yn yr achos hwn, neu efallai ddim, ond yr hyn sy'n bwysig yma yw bod gennym lefel o ddarpariaeth yn y wlad hon lle mae pobl yn ddigon agos at eu hanwyliaid fel nad ydynt yn teimlo eu bod yn y mathau hyn o sefyllfaoedd. Felly, rwy'n awyddus i ddeall beth y gallwch ei wneud i sicrhau ein bod yn cael trafodaeth agored am bosibiliadau'r dimensiwn ychwanegol hwn na chafodd ei gynnwys yn y fframwaith gwreiddiol oherwydd y ffordd y cafodd y fframwaith ei ddarparu ar sail y ffocws rhanbarthol. Credaf fod yr amser wedi dod pan fo gwir angen inni edrych ar y model hwnnw eto, nid yn unig ar gyfer yr achos hwn ynddo'i hun, ond ar gyfer pobl ifanc eraill ledled Cymru sydd yn yr un sefyllfa.
Again, I recognise this is a real and serious issue. We know that many children and young people who access the CAMHS service and are treated—that eating disorders are part of the reason why they're actually in the CAMHS service receiving a specialist service. We have money to repatriate more people, but we recognise that we haven't done as much as we would want to. That point I was making, in response to Helen Mary's question, is about need not capacity being the driver for where people are treated. I will publish the eating disorders report that Jacinta Tan and the team of people, including people with eating disorders, have contributed to, and there'll obviously be a response. And I'm more than happy to have an open debate about the provision that we have, how that matches the provision that we think we should have, and how we get to a different place. So, I'm entirely open-minded about what we could and should be doing, and, as I say, the report will be published, and I know that you and other Members will have questions to ask and comments to make that I hope will be helpful in taking a better way forward.
Unwaith eto, rwy'n cydnabod bod hwn yn fater real a difrifol. Gyda llawer o blant a phobl ifanc sy'n cael mynediad at wasanaeth CAMHS ac sy'n cael eu trin, gwyddom fod anhwylderau bwyta yn rhan o'r rheswm pam eu bod yn defnyddio'r gwasanaeth CAMHS ac yn derbyn gwasanaeth arbenigol. Mae gennym arian i ddod â mwy o bobl yn ôl i'r wlad hon, ond rydym yn cydnabod nad ydym wedi gwneud cymaint ag y byddem wedi'i ddymuno. Mae'r pwynt roeddwn yn ei wneud, mewn ymateb i gwestiwn Helen Mary, yn ymwneud â sicrhau mai angen, yn hytrach na chapasiti, sy'n penderfynu lle mae pobl yn cael eu trin. Byddaf yn cyhoeddi'r adroddiad ar anhwylderau bwyta y mae Jacinta Tan a'r tîm o bobl, gan gynnwys pobl ag anhwylderau bwyta, wedi cyfrannu ato, a bydd yna ymateb yn amlwg. Ac rwy'n fwy na hapus i gael dadl agored am y ddarpariaeth sydd gennym, sut y mae honno'n cyd-fynd â'r ddarpariaeth y credwn y dylem ei chael, a sut y gallwn fod mewn sefyllfa wahanol. Felly, mae fy meddwl yn gwbl agored ynglŷn â'r hyn y gallem ac y dylem ei wneud, ac fel rwy'n dweud, bydd yr adroddiad yn cael ei gyhoeddi, a gwn y bydd gennych chi ac Aelodau eraill gwestiynau i'w gofyn a sylwadau i'w gwneud a gobeithio y byddant yn ddefnyddiol ar gyfer bwrw ymlaen mewn ffordd well.
Thank you very much, Minister. Thank you. The second topical question this afternoon is to be answered by the Minister for Economy and Transport. Helen Mary Jones.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Weinidog. Diolch. Mae'r ail gwestiwn amserol y prynhawn yma i'w ateb gan Weinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth. Helen Mary Jones.
2. Pa drafodaethau diweddar y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u cael ynghylch dyfodol gwaith Trostre yn Llanelli? 297
2. What recent discussions has the Minister had regarding the future of the Trostre plant in Llanelli? 297
We continue to have very regular discussions with Tata Steel on a range of issues including, of course, the proposed venture.
Rydym yn parhau i gael trafodaethau rheolaidd iawn gyda Tata Steel ar amrywiaeth o faterion gan gynnwys y fenter arfaethedig wrth gwrs.
I'm grateful to the Minister for his answer and reassured to hear that he is in regular contact. I'm sure I speak for everyone on all sides of this Chamber when I reflect the deep concern at the reports that Tata may be required to sell its Trostre site in order to facilitate the proposed merger with Thyssenkrupp.
Of course, we faced, in the Trostre plant, a situation similar to this before, when the business was owned by Corus, and we were in a situation where the workers in Llanelli were directly competing with a plant doing exactly the same work in the Netherlands. At that time, supported by the Welsh Government, the workforce and the local management were able to demonstrate that their profitability, their skill levels, were actually higher than those of the business—the competing plant—in the Netherlands. And I would like to seek the Minister's reassurance today that he'll do everything he can with the workforce and with the local management to ensure that this very high level of skill and these very important jobs—over 600 direct jobs and many, many more, of course, in the supply chain—are not lost to Wales.
It is, of course, of an importance beyond Llanelli, because the Trostre plant is a very important customer for Port Talbot. So, there would potentially be a knock-on effect there if the plant was sold in such a way as it was sold potentially to be closed down, as was the concern in the past. So, I hope that the Minister can reassure us that he will do everything he can to retain these really important jobs in Llanelli for the impact on the local economy, but also the economy of Wales more broadly.
Diolch i'r Gweinidog am ei ateb ac rwy'n falch o glywed ei fod mewn cysylltiad rheolaidd. Rwy'n siŵr fy mod yn siarad dros bawb ar bob ochr i'r Siambr hon pan nodaf y pryder dwfn ynghylch yr adroddiadau y gallai fod gofyn i Tata werthu safle Trostre er mwyn hwyluso'r uno arfaethedig â Thyssenkrupp.
Wrth gwrs, yng ngwaith Trostre, rydym wedi wynebu sefyllfa debyg i hon o'r blaen, pan oedd y busnes yn eiddo i Corus, ac roeddem mewn sefyllfa lle roedd y gweithwyr yn Llanelli yn cystadlu'n uniongyrchol â safle a oedd yn gwneud yn union yr un gwaith yn yr Iseldiroedd. Ar y pryd, gyda chymorth Llywodraeth Cymru, gallodd y gweithlu a'r rheolwyr lleol ddangos bod eu proffidioldeb, eu lefelau sgiliau, yn uwch na rhai'r busnes—y safle oedd yn cystadlu â hwy—yn yr Iseldiroedd. A hoffwn ofyn am sicrwydd gan y Gweinidog heddiw y bydd yn gwneud popeth yn ei allu gyda'r gweithlu a'r rheolwyr lleol i sicrhau na chollir y lefel uchel hon o sgiliau a'r swyddi pwysig hyn—mae dros 600 o swyddi uniongyrchol a llawer iawn mwy, wrth gwrs, yn y gadwyn gyflenwi—yng Nghymru.
Wrth gwrs, mae iddo bwysigrwydd y tu hwnt i Lanelli, gan fod gwaith Trostre yn gwsmer pwysig iawn i Bort Talbot. Felly, gallai fod effaith ganlyniadol yno pe bai'r gwaith yn cael ei werthu, o bosibl, er mwyn ei gau, a lleisiwyd pryder ynglŷn â hynny yn y gorffennol. Felly, gobeithio y gall y Gweinidog ein sicrhau y bydd yn gwneud popeth yn ei allu i gadw'r swyddi pwysig hyn yn Llanelli oherwydd yr effaith ar yr economi leol, ond hefyd ar economi Cymru yn fwy cyffredinol.
Can I thank the Member for the important question today, and assure her that we will do everything we can do to ensure that there is a sustainable steel-making sector in Wales, indeed just as we've been doing so since March 2016? I'm very pleased that the Member also identified the fact that Trostre is still a profitable site and that the Welsh Government has been instrumental in supporting the 650 steelworkers at the facility.
I think it's very important to say, Dirprwy Lywydd, that the site could not be sold off in order to close it. It would have to be sold in a way that ensures it has a viable future. I would not wish to speculate too much on what's been reported today, due to, of course, this being a commercially confidential matter between two companies. But I can confirm that the First Minister has spoken today with Hans Fischer and, as a consequence of the discussion that has taken place, we are cautiously optimistic that the sale will be approached in a way that secures the long-term future of the facility.
A gaf fi ddiolch i'r Aelod am y cwestiwn pwysig heddiw, ac rwy'n ei sicrhau y byddwn yn gwneud popeth a allwn i sicrhau bod yna sector dur cynaliadwy yng Nghymru, fel y buom yn ei wneud yn wir ers mis Mawrth 2016? Rwy'n falch iawn fod yr Aelod hefyd wedi nodi'r ffaith bod Trostre yn dal i fod yn safle proffidiol a bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn allweddol yn cefnogi'r 650 o weithwyr dur ar y safle.
Credaf ei bod hi'n bwysig iawn dweud, Ddirprwy Lywydd, na ellid gwerthu'r safle er mwyn ei gau. Byddai'n rhaid iddo gael ei werthu mewn ffordd sy'n sicrhau bod ganddo ddyfodol hyfyw. Ni fuaswn yn dymuno dyfalu gormod ynglŷn â'r hyn a adroddwyd heddiw, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, mae hwn yn fater sy'n fasnachol gyfrinachol rhwng dau gwmni. Ond gallaf gadarnhau bod y Prif Weinidog wedi siarad heddiw gyda Hans Fischer ac o ganlyniad i'r drafodaeth a gafwyd, rydym yn ofalus obeithiol y bydd y gwerthiant yn digwydd mewn ffordd sy'n sicrhau dyfodol hirdymor y gwaith.
Thank you very much for the question today, Helen Mary, and for your response there, Minister. Obviously, I find this upsetting, as my grandfather and my mother worked in Trostre for many years, but it is Port Talbot that is my primary concern at the moment, and Helen Mary mentioned the role that Trostre plays in Port Talbot's supply chain, if you like.
I wonder whether there's been any work—I suppose it might be a little bit early for this—to try and map how the supply chain is likely to be affected by this, particularly within the city deal area, because, of course, one of the pluses for locating a steel innovation centre there within the city deal series of projects is the concentration of steel production, steel processing and steel fabrication. So, I would really like some reassurance that this is unlikely to, or will not, in fact, affect the ambitions within the city deal relating to steel.
The merger, as we understand it now, looks quite different from that which we were anticipating, and I think that justifies the caution of many Members in this Chamber at the time that the merger was announced. At the time, you said, Minister, that during that period of the merger, you expected to be able to take forward your discussions on the support that Welsh Government can give Tata insofar as the Welsh-based operations are concerned, and that you would welcome an announcement of an extension of the employment pact to 2026, with a commitment to seek to avoid compulsory redundancies as a result of the joint venture. I heard your reply to Helen Mary, but can you give me some indication of what progress the Welsh Government has made on getting those commitments? Have you had any specific commitment that any jobs that might be lost from Trostre will be redistributed within the Tata family, preferably near home?
And then, finally, on the same sort of point, support for Tata overall is connected to their commitment to safeguard a certain number of jobs. I'm looking for reassurance here that the announcement today is not likely to delay any development at the Port Talbot site. I'm thinking in particular of the power plant there. Because all these things are interlinked and all are conditional on a certain level of employment being maintained. Obviously, I wouldn't want this announcement today to put at risk more positive plans for other parts of the Tata estate. Thank you.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am y cwestiwn heddiw, Helen Mary, ac am eich ymateb, Weinidog. Yn amlwg, rwy’n ofidus ynglŷn â hyn, gan fod fy nhad-cu a fy mam wedi gweithio yn Nhrostre am flynyddoedd lawer, ond Port Talbot yw fy mhryder mwyaf ar hyn o bryd, a soniodd Helen Mary am y rôl y mae Trostre yn ei chwarae yng nghadwyn gyflenwi Port Talbot, os hoffwch.
Tybed a wnaed unrhyw waith—mae'n debyg y gallai fod ychydig yn gynnar i hyn—ar geisio mapio sut y mae'r gadwyn gyflenwi yn debygol o gael ei heffeithio gan hyn, yn enwedig yn ardal y fargen ddinesig, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, un o'r agweddau cadarnhaol ar gyfer lleoli canolfan arloesedd dur yno o fewn cyfres o brosiectau'r fargen ddinesig yw'r ffaith bod cymaint o waith cynhyrchu dur, prosesu dur a gwneud dur wedi'i grynhoi yno. Felly, hoffwn yn fawr gael sicrwydd bod hyn yn annhebygol o effeithio ar yr uchelgeisiau o fewn y fargen ddinesig sy'n ymwneud â dur, ac na fydd yn gwneud hynny.
Mae'r uno, fel rydym yn deall yn awr, yn edrych yn bur wahanol i'r hyn roeddem yn ei ragweld, a chredaf fod hynny'n cyfiawnhau agwedd ochelgar llawer o'r Aelodau yn y Siambr hon ar yr adeg y cyhoeddwyd y bwriad i uno. Ar y pryd, Weinidog, yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw o uno, fe ddywedoch eich bod yn disgwyl gallu bwrw ymlaen â'ch trafodaethau ar y cymorth y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei roi i Tata o ran y gweithfeydd yng Nghymru, ac y byddech yn croesawu cyhoeddiad ynghylch ymestyn yr ymrwymiad cyflogaeth hyd at 2026, gydag ymrwymiad i geisio osgoi diswyddiadau gorfodol o ganlyniad i'r gyd-fenter. Clywais eich ateb i Helen Mary, ond a allwch roi rhyw arwydd o ba gynnydd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i wneud ar gael yr ymrwymiadau hynny? A ydych wedi cael unrhyw ymrwymiad penodol y bydd unrhyw swyddi y gellid bod yn eu colli yn Nhrostre yn cael eu hailddosbarthu o fewn teulu Tata, yn yr ardal gyfagos os oes modd?
Ac yna, yn olaf, ar yr un math o bwynt, mae'r cymorth ar gyfer Tata yn gyffredinol yn gysylltiedig â'u hymrwymiad i ddiogelu nifer penodol o swyddi. Rwy'n edrych am sicrwydd yma nad yw'r cyhoeddiad heddiw yn debygol o ohirio unrhyw ddatblygiad ar safle Port Talbot. Rwy'n meddwl yn benodol am y pwerdy yno. Oherwydd mae'r holl bethau hyn yn gydgysylltiedig ac yn amodol ar gadw lefel benodol o gyflogaeth. Yn amlwg, ni fuaswn yn dymuno i'r cyhoeddiad hwn heddiw beryglu cynlluniau mwy cadarnhaol ar gyfer rhannau eraill o ystâd Tata. Diolch.
Can I thank Suzy Davies for her questions as well, and say that this won't delay consideration of further support for Port Talbot and further support for skills training provision, should it be requested, in the months to come? The Member is absolutely right; £60 million was put on the table in order to support steel facilities in Wales in March of 2016, and £17 million pounds has been drawn down today, including, of course, a very significant amount of money for Port Talbot and the blast furnace in order to make sure that it's a more competitive facility than it was in the past.
Dirprwy Lywydd, I think it would be perhaps helpful for Members if I were to circulate a note on conditionality for Welsh Government support. Clearly, there are some issues that cannot be disclosed for commercial confidentiality purposes. However, I would like Members to be as knowledgeable as possible on how we are tying Welsh Government or taxpayer support to very strict conditions to ensure that as many jobs are protected for as long as possible.
The Member is absolutely right to raise the question of the potential impact on the ecosystem within Wales. Now, the Commission will make a decision on the proposed venture by 5 June, and at the point of a decision being made, we'll be able to ascertain what—if, indeed, any—impact there will be on the ecosystem. Of course, it's worth noting that Trostre is profitable and it is competitive, because it has been sourcing steel from Port Talbot. Given that it would have to be sold as a viable concern and as a competitive business, I would surely expect that it would go on sourcing steel from the facility that has helped to make it a profitable concern.
A gaf fi ddiolch i Suzy Davies am ei chwestiynau yn ogystal, a dweud na fydd hyn yn oedi'r broses o ystyried cymorth pellach ar gyfer Port Talbot a chymorth pellach ar gyfer darparu hyfforddiant sgiliau pe bai galw amdano yn y misoedd i ddod? Mae'r Aelod yn llygad ei lle; rhoddwyd £60 miliwn ar y bwrdd er mwyn cefnogi gweithfeydd dur yng Nghymru ym mis Mawrth 2016, a darparwyd £17 miliwn o bunnoedd heddiw, gan gynnwys, wrth gwrs, swm sylweddol iawn o arian ar gyfer Port Talbot a'r ffwrnais chwyth er mwyn gwneud yn siŵr ei fod yn waith mwy cystadleuol nag yn y gorffennol.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, credaf y gallai fod o gymorth i'r Aelodau pe bawn yn dosbarthu nodyn ar yr amodau ar gyfer cymorth gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Yn amlwg, mae yna rai materion na ellir eu datgelu am resymau'n ymwneud â chyfrinachedd masnachol. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn i'r Aelodau fod mor wybodus â phosibl ynglŷn â sut y gosodwn amodau llym iawn ar gyfer cymorth Llywodraeth Cymru neu'r trethdalwr er mwyn sicrhau bod cymaint o swyddi yn cael eu diogelu am gymaint o amser â phosibl.
Mae'r Aelod yn hollol iawn i ofyn cwestiwn am yr effaith bosibl ar yr ecosystem o fewn Cymru. Nawr, bydd y Comisiwn yn gwneud penderfyniad ar y fenter arfaethedig erbyn 5 Mehefin, ac wrth wneud penderfyniad, byddwn yn gallu gweld beth fydd yr effaith—os o gwbl—ar yr ecosystem. Wrth gwrs, mae'n werth nodi bod Trostre'n broffidiol ac yn gystadleuol, oherwydd mae wedi bod yn cael dur o Bort Talbot. O gofio y byddai'n rhaid ei werthu fel busnes hyfyw ac fel busnes cystadleuol, buaswn yn disgwyl y byddai'n parhau i gael dur o'r gwaith sydd wedi helpu i'w wneud yn gwmni proffidiol.
Minister, I hope your last point is true, because, as you say, it becomes a separate commercial entity and they will look for the cheapest deal they can get, not necessarily the best deal they can get. Therefore, clearly, the implications for Port Talbot are serious and our concerns are for Port Talbot, but also for the workers in Trostre, because it's a package—it's a whole package across Wales—Tata in Shotton, Port Talbot, Llanwern and in Trostre. It works together as a package. We've raised this many times, and I've raised with you many times the concerns that a joint venture could have. In 2016, we came out of the woods, but we hadn't cleared ourselves from the global challenges yet, and this is another one.
I do worry about this, because it's not just Trostre being mentioned; Tata are also divesting themselves of Cogent—the Orb works in Newport. It seems that Tata are divesting themselves of resources more than ThyssenKrupp in this joint-venture approach. So, what discussions are you going to have with Tata? You mentioned Hans Fischer, but perhaps we need to go above Hans Fischer to see where we actually have Tata's future in this place. Because I'm deeply concerned that when Bimlendra Jha left his position, there was no UK representation, effectively, for Tata in the UK, and particularly in Wales; it's left then, perhaps, to Martin Brunnock to be the senior person here. So, we need to have a look at having discussions with Tata in India, perhaps, to discuss what their future plans are for the industry in Wales as a whole, because this comes as a package.
Also, have you had discussions at all with the Commission? Because this is down to the Commission rules and looking at this whole approach of the joint venture and the monopoly side of things. So, have you had any opportunity to speak to the Commission at all in relation to looking at this project?
I fully appreciate the investment that the Welsh Government has given to steel over the last few years. It's been very beneficial. It's actually been one of the reasons we still have a steel industry here in Wales. But it is important to keep that industry, and that we pressurise Tata to actually ensure that all its commitments to Welsh steel continue, and that if it is going to sell—I got from your answer to Helen Mary Jones that it is going to sell Trostre, it seems, or that's the impression I got from your answer—we need to ensure that contracts that are in place with Port Talbot stay in place with Port Talbot, so they don't go elsewhere, and so we keep the industry here in Wales.
Weinidog, rwy'n gobeithio bod eich pwynt olaf yn wir, oherwydd, fel y dywedwch, mae'n dod yn endid masnachol ar wahân a byddant yn edrych am y fargen rataf y gallant ei chael, nid o reidrwydd y fargen orau y gallant ei chael. Felly, yn amlwg, mae'r goblygiadau ar gyfer Port Talbot yn ddifrifol ac rydym yn pryderu ynglŷn â Phort Talbot, ond hefyd am y gweithwyr yn Nhrostre, oherwydd mae'n becyn—mae'n becyn cyfan ar draws Cymru—Tata yn Shotton, Port Talbot, Llan-wern a Throstre. Mae'n gweithio gyda'i gilydd fel pecyn. Rwyf wedi crybwyll hyn droeon, ac wedi trafod gyda chi sawl gwaith y pryderon y gallai cyd-fenter eu hachosi. Yn 2016, daethom allan o berygl, ond nid oeddem wedi goresgyn yr heriau byd-eang eto, ac mae hon yn un arall.
Rwy'n poeni am hyn, oherwydd nid Trostre'n unig sy'n cael eu crybwyll; mae Tata'n cael gwared ar Cogent hefyd—gwaith Orb yng Nghasnewydd. Mae'n ymddangos bod Tata yn cael gwared ar adnoddau yn fwy nag y mae ThyssenKrupp yn ei wneud yn y gyd-fenter hon. Felly, pa drafodaethau y bwriadwch eu cael gyda Tata? Soniasoch am Hans Fischer, ond efallai fod angen inni fynd uwchben Hans Fischer i weld lle mae dyfodol Tata yn y lle hwn. Oherwydd rwy'n bryderus iawn na châi Tata ei gynrychioli yn y DU i bob pwrpas pan adawodd Bimlendra Jha ei swydd, yn enwedig yng Nghymru; cafodd ei adael wedyn i Martin Brunnock, efallai, i fod yn brif berson yma. Felly, mae angen inni edrych ar gael trafodaethau gyda Tata yn India, o bosibl, i drafod beth yw eu cynlluniau yn y dyfodol ar gyfer y diwydiant yng Nghymru yn ei chyfanrwydd, gan fod hyn yn dod fel pecyn.
Hefyd, a ydych wedi cael trafodaethau o gwbl gyda'r Comisiwn? Oherwydd mae hyn yn dibynnu ar reolau'r Comisiwn ac edrych ar ddull y gyd-fenter yn ei gyfanrwydd a'r ochr fonopoli i bethau. Felly, a ydych wedi cael unrhyw gyfle i siarad â'r Comisiwn o gwbl o ran edrych ar y prosiect hwn?
Rwy'n llawn sylweddoli faint o fuddsoddiad y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i wneud mewn dur dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Mae wedi bod yn fuddiol iawn. Mewn gwirionedd dyna oedd un o'r rhesymau pam fod gennym ddiwydiant dur yma yng Nghymru o hyd. Ond mae'n bwysig cadw'r diwydiant hwnnw, a'n bod yn pwyso ar Tata i sicrhau bod eu holl ymrwymiadau i ddur Cymru'n parhau, ac os yw'n mynd i werthu—roeddwn yn casglu o'ch ateb i Helen Mary Jones ei fod yn mynd i werthu Trostre, mae'n ymddangos, neu dyna'r argraff a gefais o'ch ateb—fod angen inni sicrhau bod contractau sydd ar waith gyda Phort Talbot yn aros gyda Phort Talbot, fel nad ydynt yn mynd i rywle arall, ac felly ein bod yn cadw'r diwydiant yma yng Nghymru.
Can I thank David Rees for his questions and for his ongoing support for the steel industry in Wales? I should point out that, in terms of discussions that are taking place at the European Commission, this is, of course, a confidential negotiation between the European Commission and the joint venture partners, so it wouldn't be the place of Government to get involved in discussions with the European Commission. Our role has always been to create the right environment in which steel-making operations in Wales can be competitive and have a strong, bright future.
In terms of the question on whether Trostre would go on sourcing its steel from Port Talbot, of course, this will be a key concern of discussions that are going to take place between ourselves and Tata in the weeks to come. I am seeking discussions with the heads of Tata India's business, including, of course, with Bimlendra Jha, who's now returned to India, but with whom we still enjoy a very constructive relationship.
The joint venture is a 50:50 relationship between ThyssenKrupp and Tata Steel, and so we expect any pain to be shared equally in terms of any sale of assets. But I must stress again that the sale of Trostre would have to be conducted on the basis of it being a viable business in a competitive market, and I believe that that was stressed in the e-mail from Joe Gallagher to the workforce of Trostre just yesterday evening—that is absolutely correct.
Now, in terms of other steelworks in Wales, David Rees mentioned the Cogent Orb Electrical Steels business in Newport, and we are continuing to work very closely with Tata on that particular facility, of course. We have also helped in the successful sale of other concerns by Tata. For example, we helped to secure a future for its Afon Tinplate site. Now, on that occasion, we were able to ensure that there was a successful outcome and that all 43 members of staff were able to continue in their employment at the Swansea site, which now operates as part of the Tinmasters brand. Of course there will be anxiety at Trostre right now, but I am confident that with this Welsh Government continuing to focus relentlessly on creating the right environment in which steel facilities can succeed in Wales, those people employed at Trostre can enjoy a long-term future in the sector.
A gaf fi ddiolch i David Rees am ei gwestiwn ac am ei gefnogaeth barhaus i'r diwydiant dur yng Nghymru? O ran y trafodaethau sy'n digwydd yn y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd, dylwn nodi mai negodi cyfrinachol rhwng y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd a phartneriaid y gyd-fenter yw hyn wrth gwrs, felly nid lle'r Llywodraeth fyddai cymryd rhan mewn trafodaethau gyda'r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd. Ein rôl ni bob amser yw creu'r amgylchedd cywir lle gall gweithfeydd dur yng Nghymru fod yn gystadleuol a chael dyfodol disglair, cryf.
O ran y cwestiwn ynglŷn ag a fyddai Trostre'n parhau i gael ei ddur o Bort Talbot wrth gwrs, bydd hwn yn fater allweddol yn y trafodaethau sy'n mynd i ddigwydd rhyngom a Tata yn yr wythnosau i ddod. Rwy'n gofyn am drafodaethau gyda phenaethiaid busnes Tata yn India, gan gynnwys, wrth gwrs, gyda Bimlendra Jha, sydd bellach wedi dychwelyd i'r India, ond mae gennym berthynas adeiladol iawn ag ef o hyd.
Mae'r gyd-fenter yn berthynas 50:50 rhwng ThyssenKrupp a Tata Steel, ac felly rydym yn disgwyl y caiff unrhyw boen ei rhannu'n gyfartal o ran unrhyw asedau a werthir. Ond rhaid i mi bwysleisio unwaith eto y byddai'n rhaid i werthu Trostre ddigwydd ar y sail ei fod yn fusnes hyfyw mewn marchnad gystadleuol, a chredaf fod hynny wedi'i bwysleisio mewn e-bost gan Joe Gallagher at weithlu Trostre neithiwr—mae hynny'n hollol gywir.
Nawr, o ran gweithfeydd dur eraill yng Nghymru, soniodd David Rees am fusnes Cogent Orb Electrical Steels yng Nghasnewydd, ac rydym yn parhau i weithio'n agos iawn gyda Tata mewn perthynas â'r gwaith hwnnw wrth gwrs. Rydym hefyd wedi helpu i gyfrannu at lwyddiant gwerthiannau eraill gan Tata. Er enghraifft, fe wnaethom helpu i sicrhau dyfodol i'w safle Afon Tinplate. Nawr, ar yr achlysur hwnnw, gallasom sicrhau canlyniad llwyddiannus a gallodd pob un o'i 43 aelod o staff barhau yn eu gwaith ar y safle yn Abertawe, sydd bellach yn gweithredu fel rhan o frand Tinmasters. Wrth gwrs bydd pryder yn Nhrostre ar hyn o bryd, ond gyda Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i ganolbwyntio'n ddigyfaddawd ar greu'r amgylchedd iawn i weithfeydd dur allu llwyddo yng Nghymru, rwy'n hyderus y gall y bobl a gyflogir yn Nhrostre fwynhau dyfodol hirdymor yn y sector.
Thank you very much, Minister.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Weinidog.
Item 5 is the 90-second statements. The first this afternoon is from Mick Antoniw.
Eitem 5 yw'r datganiadau 90 eiliad. Daw'r cyntaf y prynhawn yma gan Mick Antoniw.
Thursday 28 March was the eightieth anniversary of one of the great heroic acts during the Spanish civil war. On that day, Welshman and Cardiffian Captain Archibald Dickson rescued and saved the lives of 2,638 men, women and children fleeing Spain and General Franco’s approaching fascist troops. A blockade of the port of Alicante by Italian destroyers and the threat of German bombers led to scenes of chaos and desperation. Captain Dickson of the SS Stanbrook, witnessing these tragic scenes, in an act of utmost bravery, left his cargo behind and instead took on board the refugees. Ten minutes into the journey came the sound of explosions, and bombs landed near the Stanbrook, yet Captain Dickson broke the blockade, undoubtedly saving many lives.
In Alicante, there is a memorial plaque to Captain Dickson in Spanish, Welsh and English. Last week, on Sunday 31 March, a public civic event took place in Alicante to remember and commemorate these events. A statement of recognition and solidarity from the First Minister of Wales was read out, recognising the many Welsh men and women of the international brigade who fought fascism in Spain and saying,
'There is no greater act of solidarity than when one person risks their life for their fellow citizen.'
Plans are under way to locate a commemorative plaque, identical to the one in Alicante, near the Assembly in recognition of the deeds of Captain Dickson and in solidarity with the people of Alicante. I am delighted that the First Minister has pledged his support, and I know I can count on this Assembly to give its full support to this project.
Ar ddydd Iau 28 Mawrth, roedd hi'n wythdeg mlynedd ers un o'r gweithredoedd mawr arwrol a digwyddodd yn ystod rhyfel cartref Sbaen. Ar y diwrnod hwnnw, llwyddodd y Cymro o Gaerdydd, y Capten Archibald Dickson, i achub ac arbed bywydau 2,638 o ddynion, menywod a phlant a oedd yn dianc o Sbaen rhag milwyr ffasgaidd y Cadfridog Franco. Arweiniodd blocâd ar borthladd Alicante gan longau rhyfel Eidalaidd a bygythiad awyrennau bomio o'r Almaen at olygfeydd o anhrefn ac anobaith. Wrth weld y golygfeydd trasig hyn, ac mewn gweithred o'r dewrder mwyaf, gadawodd Capten Dickson o SS Stanbrook ei gargo ar ôl ac yn lle hynny, derbyniodd y ffoaduriaid ar fwrdd y llong. Ddeng munud ar ôl dechrau'r daith, daeth sŵn ffrwydradau, a glaniodd bomiau ger y Stanbrook, ac eto torrodd Capten Dickson drwy'r blocâd, gan achub llawer iawn o fywydau heb unrhyw amheuaeth.
Yn Alicante, ceir plac coffa i Capten Dickson yn Gymraeg, Sbaeneg a Saesneg. Yr wythnos diwethaf, ar ddydd Sul Mawrth 31, cynhaliwyd digwyddiad dinesig cyhoeddus yn Alicante i gofio am y digwyddiadau hyn. Darllenwyd datganiad o gydnabyddiaeth a solidariaeth gan Brif Weinidog Cymru, i gydnabod y nifer o ddynion a menywod o Gymru yn y frigâd ryngwladol a fu'n ymladd ffasgiaeth yn Sbaen, ac a oedd yn dweud
Ni cheir gweithred fwy o solidariaeth na phan fydd un person yn peryglu eu bywyd dros eu cyd-ddyn.
Mae cynlluniau ar droed i osod plac coffa, yn union yr un fath â'r un yn Alicante, ger y Cynulliad i gydnabod gweithredoedd Capten Dickson ac mewn solidariaeth â phobl Alicante. Rwy'n falch iawn fod y Prif Weinidog wedi rhoi ei gefnogaeth, a gwn y gallaf ddibynnu ar y Cynulliad hwn i roi ei gefnogaeth lawn i'r prosiect hwn.
Fifty people died and dozens more were injured when a gunman attacked two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand, last month. This horrific event was a direct attack on the values of tolerance and freedom of worship, which we all hold dear. Recently, security had to be stepped up at mosques around Birmingham after five were targeted during a spate of vandalism. The Home Secretary, Sajid Javid, has announced a funding boost of £1.6 million of protective security for places of worship to help reassure communities. We in Wales must play our part. Nobody should fear persecution due to their faith. We reject those who seek to sow the seeds of hatred and division among our communities.
Deputy Presiding Officer, Jacinda Ardern, the Prime Minister of New Zealand, with the way she handled the situation after this whole massacre, she has become the most admirable woman around the world. She hugged the victims, she prayed with them, she cried with them, and the way she took those actions—the gun controls were done within days and her nation was crying with the victims and their families. We must learn lessons. Before I finish, I'll quote one or two words from that speech that she made. It is her quote:
'We are not immune to the viruses of hate, of fear, of other. We never have been. But we can be the nation that discovers the cure.'
I think we should be the one. The direct impact of her speech was that most of the victims actually pardoned the person who killed their relations. What a great person. I think, from this Chamber, we should invite her to come and tell us the way she has handled the situation and we should learn some lessons. Thank you.
Bu farw hanner cant o bobl ac anafwyd dwsinau yn rhagor pan ymosododd dyn â gwn ar ddau fosg yn Christchurch, Seland Newydd, y mis diwethaf. Roedd y digwyddiad erchyll hwn yn ymosodiad uniongyrchol ar werthoedd goddefgarwch a rhyddid i addoli, sydd mor annwyl i ni i gyd. Yn ddiweddar, bu'n rhaid cynyddu mesurau diogelwch mewn mosgiau o amgylch Birmingham wedi i bump ohonynt gael eu targedu mewn ton o fandaliaeth. Mae Sajid Javid, yr Ysgrifennydd Cartref, wedi cyhoeddi hwb ariannol o £1.6 miliwn tuag at fesurau diogelu amddiffynnol ar gyfer mannau addoli er mwyn helpu i dawelu meddyliau cymunedau. Rhaid inni yng Nghymru chwarae ein rhan. Ni ddylai neb ofni erledigaeth oherwydd eu ffydd. Rydym yn gwrthod y rhai sy'n ceisio hau casineb a rhaniadau ymysg ein cymunedau.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae Jacinda Ardern, Prif Weinidog Seland Newydd, wedi dod yn ddynes sy'n ennyn edmygedd o gwmpas y byd yn sgil y ffordd yr ymdriniodd â'r sefyllfa ar ôl y gyflafan hon. Cofleidiodd y dioddefwyr, gweddïodd gyda hwy, fe wylodd gyda hwy, a'r ffordd y rhoddodd gamau ar waith—rhoddwyd mesurau rheoli gynau ar waith o fewn dyddiau ac roedd ei chenedl yn wylo gyda'r dioddefwyr a'u teuluoedd. Rhaid inni ddysgu gwersi. Cyn imi orffen, rwyf am ddyfynnu gair neu ddau o'r araith a wnaeth. Rwy'n dyfynnu ei geiriau:
Nid ydym yn rhydd rhag firysau casineb, ofn, yr arall. Ni fuom erioed. Ond gallwn fod yn genedl sy'n darganfod yr iachâd.
Credaf y dylem ni fod yn genedl felly. Effaith uniongyrchol ei haraith oedd bod y rhan fwyaf o'r dioddefwyr wedi maddau i'r person a laddodd eu perthnasau. Am berson mawr. Credaf y dylem ei gwahodd i ddod atom i'r Siambr hon i ddweud wrthym sut yr ymdriniodd â'r sefyllfa a dylem ddysgu gwersi ganddi. Diolch.
The WorldSkills finals will be taking place between 22 and 27 August later this year. Dubbed the 'skills Olympics', it's an opportunity for the world's brightest and most skilled apprentices to challenge the best in the world in their respective professions. More than 60 countries will be sending teams to the event, which will be shown on live tv and streamed across the world. Thirty-two members of Team UK have already been announced, and members will represent a variety of sectors, ranging from engineering, hospitality, professional services, construction, digital and IT.
On a recent visit to Pembrokeshire College, I was delighted to be told of the success of three highly talented young professionals from the mid and west region, which I represent, who have secured their places on the WorldSkills UK team: Sam Everton and Chris Caine, former students at Pembrokeshire College, and Phoebe McLavy, who completed her training at Coleg Sir Gâr. Sam will be competing in the cooking competition, Chris in the joinery competition, and Phoebe will be demonstrating her skills in hairdressing. I'd like to praise the hard work and dedication of these young professionals, and the effort it has taken them to reach this stage of this highly prestigious competition. I'm sure that the whole Chamber will wish them the best of luck in the finals later this year. I know that they will take this opportunity to demonstrate to the world the level of talent that Wales has to offer.
Bydd rowndiau terfynol WorldSkills yn digwydd rhwng 22 a 27 Awst yn ddiweddarach eleni. Cawsant eu galw'n 'Olympics sgiliau', ac mae'n gyfle i brentisiaid disgleiriaf a mwyaf medrus y byd herio'r gorau yn y byd yn eu cyfryw broffesiynau. Bydd mwy na 60 o wledydd yn anfon timau i'r digwyddiad, a chaiff ei ddangos ar deledu byw a'i ffrydio ar draws y byd. Mae 32 aelod Tîm y DU eisoes wedi'u cyhoeddi, a bydd yr aelodau'n cynrychioli amrywiaeth o sectorau, yn amrywio o beirianneg, lletygarwch, gwasanaethau proffesiynol, adeiladu, digidol a TG.
Ar ymweliad diweddar â Choleg Sir Benfro, roeddwn yn falch o gael clywed am lwyddiant tri gweithiwr proffesiynol ifanc hynod dalentog o ranbarth y canolbarth a'r gorllewin, a gynrychiolir gennyf, sydd wedi sicrhau eu lle yn nhîm WorldSkills y DU: Sam Everton a Chris Caine, cyn-fyfyrwyr yng Ngholeg Sir Benfro, a Phoebe McLavy, a gwblhaodd ei hyfforddiant yng Ngholeg Sir Gâr. Bydd Sam yn cystadlu yn y gystadleuaeth goginio, Chris yn y gystadleuaeth saernïaeth, a bydd Phoebe yn arddangos ei sgiliau mewn trin gwallt. Hoffwn ganmol gwaith caled ac ymroddiad y gweithwyr proffesiynol ifanc hyn, a'r ymdrech a wnaethant er mwyn cyrraedd y cam hwn o'r gystadleuaeth fawreddog hon. Rwy'n siŵr y bydd y Siambr gyfan am ddymuno pob lwc iddynt yn y rownd derfynol yn ddiweddarach eleni. Gwn y byddant yn bachu ar y cyfle hwn i ddangos lefel y dalent sydd gan Gymru i'w chynnig i'r byd.
The next item is a motion to suspend Standing Orders 11.16 and 12.20 to allow the report of the standards committee to be debated. I call on a Member of the Business Committee to move that motion.
Yr eitem nesaf yw cynnig i atal dros dro Reolau Sefydlog 11.16 a 12.20 er mwyn caniatáu dadl ar adroddiad y pwyllgor safonau. Galwaf ar Aelod o'r Pwyllgor Busnes i wneud y cynnig.
Cynnig NDM7033 Elin Jones
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheolau Sefydlog 33.6 a 33.8:
Yn atal Rheol Sefydlog 12.20(i) a'r rhan honno o Reol Sefydlog 11.16 sy'n ei gwneud yn ofynnol bod y cyhoeddiad wythnosol o dan Reol Sefydlog 11.11 yn darparu'r amserlen ar gyfer busnes yn y Cyfarfod Llawn yr wythnos ganlynol, er mwyn caniatáu i’r eitem fusnes nesaf gael ei hystyried yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ddydd Mercher, 3 Ebrill 2019.
Motion NDM7033 Elin Jones
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Orders 33.6 and 33.8:
Suspends Standing Order 12.20(i) and that part of Standing Order 11.16 that requires the weekly announcement under Standing Order 11.11 to constitute the timetable for business in Plenary for the following week, to allow the next item of business to be considered in Plenary on Wednesday, 3 April 2019.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
I move.
Rwy'n cynnig.
Thank you. The proposal is to suspend Standing Orders. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36, the motion is agreed.
Diolch. Y cynnig yw atal Rheolau Sefydlog. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36, derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
We now move on to the debate on the Standards of Conduct Committee's report 01-19 to the Assembly under Standing Order 22.9. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—Jayne Bryant.
Symudwn yn awr at y ddadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad 01-19 i'r Cynulliad o dan Reol Sefydlog 22.9. Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i wneud y cynnig—Jayne Bryant.
Cynnig NDM7032 Jayne Bryant
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn ystyried Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad—Adroddiad 01-19 a osodwyd gerbron y Cynulliad ar 1 Ebrill 2019 yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 22.9
2. Yn cymeradwyo’r argymhellion yn yr adroddiad.
Motion NDM7032 Jayne Bryant
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Considers the Report of the Standards of Conduct Committee—Report 01-19 laid before the Assembly on 1 April 2019 in accordance with Standing Order 22.9
2. Endorses the recommendations in the report.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. As Chair of the Standards of Conduct Committee, I formally move the motion. The committee considered the report from the acting Commissioner for Standards in relation to a complaint made against Gareth Bennett AM regarding his integrity, which is a breach of paragraph 4(b) of the code of conduct and the Assembly's dignity and respect policy. The Standards of Conduct Committee gave the Commissioner's report careful consideration, and our report sets out the committee's judgment as to the sanction that is appropriate in this case. The facts relating to the complaint and the committee's reasons for its recommendations are set out in full in the committee's report. I would also like to take this opportunity to put on record the committee's thanks for the work undertaken by the acting Commissioner in relation to this complaint. The motion tabled invites the Assembly to endorse the committee's recommendations.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad, rwy'n gwneud y cynnig yn ffurfiol. Ystyriodd y pwyllgor yr adroddiad gan y Comisiynydd Safonau dros dro mewn perthynas â chŵyn yn erbyn Gareth Bennett AC ynglŷn â'i uniondeb, sy'n tramgwyddo paragraff 4(b) y cod ymddygiad a pholisi urddas a pharch y Cynulliad. Rhoddodd y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad ystyriaeth ofalus i adroddiad y Comisiynydd, ac mae ein hadroddiad yn nodi barn y pwyllgor ynghylch y gosb sy'n briodol yn yr achos hwn. Nodir yn llawn y ffeithiau sy'n ymwneud â'r gŵyn a rhesymau'r pwyllgor dros ei argymhellion yn adroddiad y pwyllgor. Hoffwn fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn hefyd i gofnodi diolch y pwyllgor am y gwaith a wnaed gan y Comisiynydd dros dro mewn perthynas â'r gŵyn hon. Mae'r cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn gwahodd y Cynulliad i gymeradwyo argymhellion y Pwyllgor.
I realise that what I'm about to say is going to fall on deaf ears, but I will make my speech in any event. It's not related to the individual who is the subject of this report. These are general considerations about the way that the Standards of Conduct Committee is operating in order to give effect to the dignity and respect policy and the Standing Orders of this Assembly.
I'm concerned first of all at the admissibility of these complaints, because there were complaints made some time ago to Sir Roderick Evans, our standards commissioner, which he dismissed in a letter to Gareth Bennett of 3 October, which is published with the report. Sir Roderick says that
'I concluded that complaints that the video'—
which was being complained of—
'was sexist and misogynistic were not made out.'
Subsequently, several other complaints were made by other Members of the Assembly asking Sir Roderick to review his decision. There is of course no provision that would permit that under the existing rules. So, therefore, Sir Roderick decided that he would not be able to hear these new complaints, as a result of which Mr Bain was appointed to act in his place. Mr Bain then concluded that the new complaints were admissible, notwithstanding the fact that identical complaints had already been dismissed.
Now, it is a serious matter when we expose Members of this place to double jeopardy, as it would be of any citizen in the United Kingdom. In a court of law, where a matter is functus officio, being the official legal term for this in a court of law, no such complaint could be entertained, yet we are allowing double jeopardy in this place for complaints to be made ad nauseam, possibly, against individual Members. I believe that that in principle is wrong.
Mr Bain, in paragraph 6.1 of his report—excuse me—says that—
Rwy'n sylweddoli bod yr hyn rwyf am ei ddweud yn mynd i syrthio ar glustiau byddar, ond fe wnaf fy araith beth bynnag. Nid yw'n ymwneud â'r unigolyn sy'n destun yr adroddiad hwn. Mae'r rhain yn ystyriaethau cyffredinol ynghylch y ffordd y mae'r Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad yn gweithredu er mwyn rhoi effaith i'r polisi urddas a pharch a Rheolau Sefydlog y Cynulliad hwn.
Rwy'n pryderu yn gyntaf oll ynglŷn ag i ba raddau y mae'r cwynion hyn yn dderbyniadwy, gan fod yna gwynion a wnaed gryn amser yn ôl i Syr Roderick Evans, ein comisiynydd safonau, a wrthodwyd ganddo mewn llythyr at Gareth Bennett ar 3 Hydref, ac a gyhoeddir gyda'r adroddiad. Dywed Syr Roderick
Deuthum i'r casgliad nad oedd y cwynion fod y fideo
—sef testun y gŵyn—
yn rhywiaethol ac yn wreig-gasaol yn rhai dilys.
Yn dilyn hynny, gwnaed sawl cwyn arall gan Aelodau Cynulliad eraill yn gofyn i Syr Roderick adolygu ei benderfyniad. Wrth gwrs, nid oes unrhyw ddarpariaeth a fyddai'n caniatáu hynny o dan y rheolau presennol. Felly, penderfynodd Syr Roderick na fyddai'n gallu clywed y cwynion newydd hyn, ac o ganlyniad, penodwyd Mr Bain i weithredu yn ei le. Casglodd Mr Bain wedyn fod modd derbyn y cwynion newydd, er gwaethaf y ffaith bod cwynion yn union yr un fath eisoes wedi'u diystyru.
Nawr, mae'n fater difrifol pan fyddwn yn gwneud un o Aelodau'r lle hwn yn agored i erlyniad dwbl, fel y byddai i unrhyw ddinesydd yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Mewn llys barn, os yw mater yn functus officio, sef y term cyfreithiol swyddogol ar gyfer hyn mewn llys barn, ni ellid derbyn unrhyw gŵyn o'r fath, ac eto rydym yn caniatáu erlyniad dwbl yn y lle hwn ar gyfer gwneud cwynion hyd syrffed, o bosibl, yn erbyn Aelodau unigol. Credaf fod hynny'n anghywir o ran egwyddor.
Mae Mr Bain, ym mharagraff 6.1 ei adroddiad—esgusodwch fi—yn dweud bod—
It's a long report.
Mae'n adroddiad maith.
Well, it's not so much long, but without my glasses it's difficult. Yes, in paragraph 6.1 of his report, Mr Bain says that he acknowledges that:
'the determination of complaints of this nature is a matter on which persons may legitimately reach different decisions.'
He then goes on to say:
'I am, of course, aware that the Commissioner for Standards, without the benefit of all the facts now before me, decided that Mrs Watson’s complaint'—
which was the original one—
'about the publication of the video was not admissible.'
So, that leads us to: what had changed between the original complaint and the new complaints? Well, of course at the time that Mr Bain decided to investigate the matter, nothing had changed, because there had been no further investigation. As a result of his investigation, he decided—therefore retrospectively decided—that there was new information that enabled him to consider the complaint that he'd already decided to consider.
This revolved around a phrase that Gareth Bennett used, which was—I don't know whether Members know what the video was, which was basically Joyce Watson's face put onto the body of a barmaid. I'm explaining this for the benefit of those outside who may not understand what this case is about.
Wel, nid yn gymaint ei fod yn hir, ond heb fy sbectol mae'n anodd. Ie, ym mharagraff 6.1 yn ei adroddiad, dywed Mr Bain ei fod yn cydnabod bod:
dyfarnu ar gwynion o'r natur hon yn fater y gall personau yn gyfreithlon wneud penderfyniadau gwahanol yn eu cylch.
Yna aiff ymlaen i ddweud:
Gwn fod y Comisiynydd Safonau, wrth gwrs, heb y fantais o'r holl ffeithiau sydd ger fy mron yn awr, wedi penderfynu nad oedd cwyn Mrs Watson—
sef yr un wreiddiol—
ynghylch cyhoeddi'r fideo yn dderbyniadwy.
Felly, mae hynny'n ein harwain at: beth oedd wedi newid rhwng y gŵyn wreiddiol a'r cwynion newydd? Wel, wrth gwrs ar yr adeg y penderfynodd Mr Bain ymchwilio i'r mater, nid oedd unrhyw beth wedi newid, oherwydd ni fu unrhyw ymchwiliad pellach. O ganlyniad i'w ymchwiliad, penderfynodd—felly, fe benderfynodd yn ôl-weithredol—fod yna wybodaeth newydd a'i galluogai i ystyried y gŵyn yr oedd eisoes wedi penderfynu ei hystyried.
Roedd hyn yn ymwneud ag ymadrodd a ddefnyddiodd Gareth Bennett sef—nid wyf yn gwybod a yw'r Aelodau'n gwybod beth oedd y fideo, sef yn y bôn wyneb Joyce Watson wedi'i roi ar gorff barforwyn. Rwy'n esbonio hyn er budd y bobl ar y tu allan nad ydynt o bosibl yn deall beth y mae'r achos hwn yn ymwneud ag ef.
You're minimising it.
Rydych yn ei wneud yn llai o beth nag ydyw.
I'm not minimising it. I haven't finished my speech as yet. You can make your speech in due course.
I will read from the report. Mr Gething, whose complaint was that the video was
'transparently sexist. The buxom barmaid imagery is plainly meant to belittle and offend. The reference to'—
Sorry, I'm wrong. Sorry, it's the wrong paragraph. Without my glasses it's difficult for me to read. I apologise to Members for having made that mistake. Close to the start of the video is the following text:
'Joyce once ran a pub in Pembrokeshire but you wouldn't guess that from looking at her. She doesn't look like the life and soul of the party.' [Interruption.]
I am quoting from the report, which is published. I am quoting from the report, which is published, and I will make my speech, with the permission of the Deputy Presiding Officer, in my own way.
Nid wyf yn ei wneud yn llai nag ydyw. Nid wyf wedi gorffen fy araith eto. Gallwch wneud eich araith chi maes o law.
Fe ddarllenaf o'r adroddiad. Mr Gething, ei gŵyn oedd bod y fideo
yn amlwg yn rhywiaethol. Mae'n amlwg mai bwriad y llun o'r farforwyn lond ei chroen oedd bychanu a pheri loes. Y cyfeiriad at—
Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, rwy'n anghywir. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, nid dyna'r paragraff cywir. Heb fy sbectol, mae'n anodd i mi ddarllen. Rwy'n ymddiheuro i'r Aelodau am wneud y camgymeriad hwnnw. Yn agos at ddechrau'r fideo mae'r testun canlynol:
Roedd Joyce ar un adeg yn rhedeg tafarn yn Sir Benfro ond ni fyddech yn dyfalu hynny o edrych arni. Nid yw'n edrych fel pe bai'n enaid y parti. [Torri ar draws.]
Rwy'n dyfynnu o'r adroddiad, sydd wedi'i gyhoeddi. Rwy'n dyfynnu o'r adroddiad, sydd wedi'i gyhoeddi, ac rwy'n mynd i wneud fy araith, gyda chaniatâd y Dirprwy Lywydd, yn fy ffordd fy hun.
If you've got a concluding sentence.
Os oes gennych frawddeg i gloi.
Then—this is the important sentence—
'I'm not sure I would fancy popping in for a quick one at the local if I saw her pulling pints at the bar.' [Interruption.]
I wish Members would listen. I am trying to make a—[Interruption.] I know that Members do not want to listen—
Felly—dyma'r frawddeg bwysig—
Nid wyf yn siŵr y byddai gennyf awydd galw i mewn am un cyflym yn y dafarn leol pe bawn i'n ei gweld yn tynnu peint wrth y bar. [Torri ar draws.]
Hoffwn pe bai'r Aelodau'n gwrando. Rwy'n ceisio gwneud—[Torri ar draws.] Gwn nad yw'r Aelodau eisiau gwrando—
Whoa—
Arhoswch—
—to listen to things that you don't want to hear.
—gwrando ar bethau nad ydych eisiau clywed.
Can I ask the Member to wind up, please?
A gaf fi ofyn i'r Aelod ddirwyn i ben, os gwelwch yn dda?
Turn his mike off.
Diffoddwch ei feicroffon.
I don't need help, thank you. Can you wind up, please?
Nid oes angen help arnaf, diolch yn fawr. A wnewch chi ddirwyn i ben, os gwelwch yn dda?
No, I can't, Deputy Presiding Officer—
Na, ni allaf, Ddirprwy Lywydd—
I think you can wind up.
Rwy'n credu y gallwch ddirwyn i ben.
—because I've been enduring interruptions that have interrupted the flow of what I'm trying to say. I'm trying to make a serious point about the meaning of this term, 'a quick one at the local'. Mr Bain—
—oherwydd rwyf wedi dioddef ymyriadau sydd wedi tarfu ar lif yr hyn rwy'n ceisio'i ddweud. Rwy'n ceisio gwneud pwynt difrifol ynglŷn ag ystyr yr ymadrodd, 'un cyflym yn y dafarn leol'. Mr Bain—
Point of order.
Pwynt o drefn.
No, no—no points of order in the middle of a debate, sorry. Will you come to your concluding sentence? Will you come to your concluding sentence?
Na, na—nid oes pwyntiau o drefn ynghanol dadl, mae'n ddrwg gennyf. A wnewch chi ddod at eich brawddeg olaf? A wnewch chi ddod at eich brawddeg olaf?
Mr Bain claimed that that was a sexist remark. 'Popping in for a quick one at the local' to me—
Honnodd Mr Bain fod hwnnw'n sylw rhywiaethol. I mi mae 'galw i mewn am un cyflym yn y dafarn leol'—
It's not the world of Benny Hill, you know.
Nid byd Benny Hill yw hwn, wyddoch chi.
Can you come to your concluding sentence?
A allwch ddod at eich brawddeg i gloi?
'Popping in for a quick one' means to almost anybody, I would have thought—
I bron bawb, buaswn yn meddwl fod 'galw i mewn am un cyflym' yn golygu—
Mr Hamilton, please come to your—
Mr Hamilton, os gwelwch yn dda, dewch at eich—
—popping in for a drink.
—galw i mewn am ddiod.
Mr Hamilton—
Mr Hamilton—
I did a quick search on the internet—
Fe wnes chwiliad cyflym ar y we—
Mr Hamilton, please come—
Mr Hamilton, os gwelwch yn dda, dewch—
I couldn't find a single—[Interruption.]
Ni allwn ddod o hyd i'r un—[Torri ar draws.]
Mr Hamilton, please come to your concluding sentence.
Mr Hamilton, os gwelwch yn dda, dewch at eich brawddeg i gloi.
The Cambridge English Dictionary says 'have a quick one' means
'to have a drink, usually an alcoholic drink, just before going somewhere'.
There is no—
Mae'r Cambridge English Dictionary yn dweud bod 'cael un cyflym' yn golygu
'cael diod, diod alcoholig fel arfer, ychydig cyn mynd i rywle'.
Nid oes unrhyw—
Right, I have turned your mike off. Please come to your concluding sentence; you have had far too long to speak.
Iawn, rwyf wedi diffodd eich meicroffon. Dewch at eich brawddeg olaf; rydych wedi cael llawer gormod o amser i siarad.
Well, I'm sorry that I'm being silenced in this serious matter—
Wel, mae'n ddrwg gennyf eich bod yn rhoi taw arnaf yn y mater difrifol hwn—
You're not being silenced; you've had time.
Nid wyf yn rhoi taw arnoch; rydych wedi cael amser.
—which affects the freedom of speech of Members of this place—
—sy'n effeithio ar ryddid Aelodau'r lle hwn i lefaru—
Please come to your concluding sentence.
Dewch at eich brawddeg olaf os gwelwch yn dda.
You'll have heard the attempts of Members here to silence this speech and to interrupt it.
Byddwch wedi clywed ymdrechion yr Aelodau yma i roi taw ar yr araith hon ac i dorri ar ei thraws.
Please come to your concluding sentence. Please come to your concluding sentence, or please sit down.
Dewch at eich brawddeg olaf, os gwelwch yn dda. Dewch at eich brawddeg olaf, neu eisteddwch.
Hardly a day passes in this place when UKIP Members are not belittled or offended by some of the remarks that other Members of this house—[Interruption.] I believe that in a free society members of a democratic assembly should be prepared to put up with criticism and, indeed, sometimes being belittled and offended. That is part and parcel of it, and Joyce Watson—
Prin fod diwrnod yn mynd heibio yn y lle hwn pan na chaiff Aelodau UKIP eu bychanu neu eu tramgwyddo gan rai o'r sylwadau y mae Aelodau eraill o'r tŷ hwn—[Torri ar draws.] Mewn cymdeithas rydd, credaf y dylai aelodau cynulliad democrataidd fod yn barod i oddef beirniadaeth ac yn wir, i gael eu bychanu a'u tramgwyddo o bryd i'w gilydd. Mae hynny'n rhan annatod o'r peth, a Joyce Watson—
No, sorry, you've had long enough. Sorry, please, sit down. Please sit down. Please sit down. Your mike's not on. Your mike's not on. Your mike will not go on. Please sit down.
Right, sorry, Huw Irranca-Davies is the next speaker. Sorry, Huw Irranca-Davies.
Na, mae'n flin gennyf, rydych wedi cael digon o amser. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, os gwelwch yn dda, eisteddwch. Eisteddwch. Eisteddwch. Nid yw eich meicroffon ymlaen. Nid yw eich meicroffon ymlaen. Ni fydd eich meicroffon yn cael ei roi ymlaen. Eisteddwch os gwelwch yn dda.
Iawn, mae'n ddrwg gennyf, Huw Irranca-Davies yw'r siaradwr nesaf. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, Huw Irranca-Davies.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. And actually, this has illustrated the point I wanted to make.
First of all, can I commend the report that's come forward? It's a difficult decision whenever such allegations are levelled against any Member and also for the individual, I have to say, who has been the subject of the original complaints as well. And I think the way in which, Neil, you've dealt with this today has just resurfaced those issues in a very uncomfortable way—and I say this politely—to great discomfort, not only to the individual, but to Members and people watching these proceedings.
But can I just say, because the point that I wanted to come to is to do with the way that we deal with this? And first of all, it should be on the basis that you play at the whistle. You do not question the referee. And, Neil, you know as well as I know that when a Member in the House of Commons is sanctioned, they not only appear there and are expected to sit there and to listen, in courtesy and in humility to what is being said, but they are often asked by the Standards and Privileges Committee to make an apology in person. I am amazed, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I think we need to revisit our Standing Orders to insist that the Member is present. I've seen it too many times in this place that the Member scuttles off somewhere to hide from this and allows somebody else to barrack a defence on their behalf. And I would welcome the opportunity that we actually revisit Standing Orders and look at both the insistence that the Member should be present and, secondly, that we extend those Standing Orders that we have under 22.10—where we are allowed to censure a Member, withdraw rights and privileges, exclude a Member from Assembly proceedings—to also add the fact that we could demand an apology if the grievance is significant.
Secondly, the power of the Chair, or in this case the Deputy Presiding Officer. In Erskine May, in the House of Commons, it says very, very clearly that the power of the Chair, the Speaker, to name and sanction a Member who's disregarded the authority of the Chair, or who has persistently and wilfully obstructed the house by abusing its rules, he or she, after generally being given every opportunity—that empty chair today speaks volumes—every opportunity to set matters right, may be named, and then may be suspended for five days, for 20 days, for as long as that house decides. In our Standing Orders, here in this red book, which is our bible, it says, if a Member, Neil,
'refuses to conform to any Standing Order or other requirement...; or...disregards the authority of the chair.'
There is only one thing that keeps us within rules, within conduct in this house; it is the authority of the Chair.
The reason I've stood to speak is not on the substance, although I welcome the findings and the recommendations that have come forward, I really do. But, should that Member not see it fit—who is absent today—to apologise, to show some contrition for what is done, I would thoroughly recommend that the committee revisits it, comes back, and revisits the option of actually bringing forward a further suspension, but in so doing also looks at the range of penalties that can be done.
I would like to see that Member here, not being defended by somebody else, but to speak for themselves and to apologise and to show contrition. Because if they don't, it is not only out of compliance with Standing Orders, on which we will shortly vote and show the will of this house, but it's also out of compliance with the Standing Orders about the power of our Presiding Officer and Deputy Presiding Officer. Disregarding the authority of the Chair. I should think there is disrespect being shown not only to the Member, but also to this Chamber here. And if we are a democratic institution, as Neil was so keen to say, then we abide by the rules, we apologise when we all do things wrong, and the committee says so, and we listen to the Chair and we accept the sanctions. [Applause.]
Diolch ichi, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Ac mewn gwirionedd, mae hyn wedi dangos y pwynt roeddwn am ei wneud.
Yn gyntaf oll, a gaf fi gymeradwyo'r adroddiad a gyflwynwyd? Mae'n benderfyniad anodd pryd bynnag y caiff honiadau o'r fath eu gwneud yn erbyn unrhyw Aelod a hefyd i'r unigolyn, rhaid imi ddweud, sydd wedi bod yn destun y cwynion gwreiddiol yn ogystal. A chredaf fod y ffordd rydych chi, Neil, wedi ymdrin â hyn heddiw wedi dod â'r materion hynny i'r wyneb eto mewn ffordd anghyfforddus iawn—a dywedaf hyn yn gwrtais—er anghysur mawr, nid yn unig i'r unigolyn ond i'r Aelodau ac i bobl sy'n gwylio'r trafodion hyn.
Ond a gaf fi ddweud, oherwydd mae'r pwynt yr oeddwn am ddod ato yn ymwneud â'r ffordd yr ydym yn ymdrin â hyn? Ac yn gyntaf oll, dylai fod ar y sail eich bod yn chwarae yn ôl y chwiban. Nid ydych yn dadlau gyda'r canolwr. A Neil, fe wyddoch gystal â minnau pan geir Aelod yn Nhŷ'r Cyffredin yn euog o dramgwydd, nid yn unig eu bod yn ymddangos yno a bod disgwyl iddynt eistedd yno a gwrando yn gwrtais ac yn ostyngedig i'r hyn sy'n cael ei ddweud, ond yn aml gofynnir iddynt gan y Pwyllgor Safonau a Breintiau i wneud ymddiheuriad personol. Rwy'n rhyfeddu, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ac rwy'n credu bod angen inni ailedrych ar ein Rheolau Sefydlog i fynnu bod yr Aelod yn bresennol. Rwyf wedi gweld yn rhy aml yn y lle hwn fod yr Aelod yn ei heglu i rywle i guddio rhag hyn ac yn caniatáu i rywun arall lunio amddiffyniad ar eu rhan. A buaswn yn croesawu cyfle i ailedrych ar Reolau Sefydlog ac edrych ar y gofyniad y dylai'r Aelod fod yn bresennol ac yn ail, ein bod yn ymestyn y Rheolau Sefydlog sydd gennym o dan 22.10—lle caniateir inni geryddu Aelod, tynnu hawliau a breintiau yn ôl, gwahardd Aelod o drafodion y Cynulliad—i ychwanegu hefyd y ffaith y gallem fynnu ymddiheuriad os yw'r gŵyn yn sylweddol.
Yn ail, pŵer y Cadeirydd, neu yr achos hwn, y Dirprwy Lywydd. Yn Erskine May yn Nhŷ'r Cyffredin, mae'n dweud yn glir iawn fod pŵer y Cadeirydd, y Llefarydd, i enwi a chosbi Aelod sydd wedi anwybyddu awdurdod y Cadeirydd, neu sydd wedi rhwystro'r tŷ yn gyson ac yn fwriadol drwy dorri ei reolau, y gellir ei enwi ef neu hi, ar ôl iddynt gael bob cyfle at ei gilydd—mae'r gadair wag honno heddiw yn siarad cyfrolau—bob cyfle i unioni pethau, y gellid eu henwi, ac yna cânt eu hatal am bum diwrnod, am 20 diwrnod, cyhyd ag y bydd y tŷ hwnnw'n penderfynu. Yn ein Rheolau Sefydlog, yma yn y llyfr coch, sef ein Beibl, mae'n dweud, os oes Aelod, Neil,
'sy'n gwrthod cydymffurfio ag unrhyw Reol Sefydlog neu ag unrhyw ofyniad arall... neu sy'n anwybyddu awdurdod y cadeirydd.'
Un peth yn unig sy'n ein cadw o fewn y rheolau, i ymddwyn yn briodol yn y tŷ hwn; awdurdod y Cadeirydd yw hwnnw.
Rwyf wedi codi i siarad nid ar y sylwedd, er fy mod yn croesawu'r canfyddiadau a'r argymhellion a gyflwynwyd, yn bendant iawn. Ond os nad yw'r Aelod—sy'n absennol heddiw—yn fodlon ymddiheuro, dangos edifeirwch am yr hyn a wnaed, buaswn yn argymell o ddifrif fod y pwyllgor yn ei ailystyried, yn dod yn ôl, ac yn ailedrych ar yr opsiwn o gyflwyno gwaharddiad pellach, ond drwy wneud hynny ei fod hefyd yn edrych ar yr ystod o gosbau y gellir eu gwneud.
Hoffwn weld yr Aelod yma, nid yn cael ei amddiffyn gan rywun arall, ond yn siarad drostynt eu hunain ac yn ymddiheuro ac yn dangos edifeirwch. Oherwydd os nad ydynt yn gwneud hynny, mae'n dangos diffyg cydymffurfiaeth â Rheolau Sefydlog, a byddwn yn pleidleisio ac yn dangos ewyllys y tŷ hwn ar hynny yn y man, ond mae hefyd yn dangos diffyg cydymffurfiaeth â'r Rheolau Sefydlog ynghylch pŵer ein Llywydd a'n Dirprwy Lywydd. Anwybyddu awdurdod y Cadeirydd. Buaswn yn credu bod diffyg parch yn cael ei ddangos nid yn unig at yr Aelod, ond hefyd at y Siambr. Ac os ydym yn sefydliad democrataidd, fel yr oedd Neil oedd mor awyddus i ddweud, yna rydym yn cadw at y rheolau, rydym yn ymddiheuro pan fydd pawb ohonom yn gwneud pethau'n anghywir, a bod y pwyllgor yn dweud hynny, a'n bod yn gwrando ar y Cadeirydd ac yn derbyn y cosbau. [Cymeradwyaeth.]
Thank you. Can I call on the Chair of the committee, Jayne Bryant, to reply to the debate? Jayne.
Diolch. A gaf fi alw ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor, Jayne Bryant, i ymateb i'r ddadl? Jayne.
Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. Firstly, I'd like to say that I'm disappointed with the tone of the Member for Mid and West Wales. I'm surprised he didn't quote the report, which says:
'As Assembly Members, we have a responsibility to set an example on how to behave with dignity and respect to all of society, and this video falls well below the standards expected.'
On the point that he made on the acting commissioner as well, the commissioner did make it clear in his statement concerning the appointment of an acting commissioner back in October, which he shared with Members, that he'd received further complaints and therefore considered himself unable to act in this matter. It's permissible within the legislation for an acting commissioner to be appointed and there is nothing in the Measure to prevent a complaint being looked at where one of a similar nature has been dismissed. The committee received legal advice that the double jeopardy provisions would not apply in such instances, and I'd like to remind him that this is not a court of law.
Moving on to Huw Irranca-Davies, I thank Huw Irranca-Davies for his contribution. The committee does consider, and it did in this instance, whether a Member apologises as part of its deliberations. In this instance, it did take the Member's lack of contrition, which is noted in the report, into account when reaching our conclusion. We'd be happy to look into the points that you raise as well, as we'll be looking at sanctions once our code of conduct work is complete. It's timely to review that and make sure they're fit for purpose.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Yn gyntaf, hoffwn ddweud fy mod yn siomedig ynglŷn â thôn yr Aelod dros Ganolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru. Rwy'n synnu na ddyfynnodd o'r adroddiad, sy'n dweud:
'Fel Aelodau’r Cynulliad, mae gennym gyfrifoldeb i osod esiampl ar sut i ymddwyn ag urddas a pharch i gymdeithas gyfan, ac mae’r fideo hwn yn is o lawer na’r safonau disgwyliedig.'
Ar y pwynt a wnaeth ynglŷn â'r comisiynydd dros dro yn ogystal, fe nododd y comisiynydd yn glir yn ei ddatganiad ynghylch penodi comisiynydd dros dro yn ôl ym mis Hydref, a rannodd gyda'r Aelodau, ei fod wedi derbyn rhagor o gwynion, ac felly'n ystyried na allai weithredu yn y mater hwn. Mae hawl o fewn y ddeddfwriaeth i benodi comisiynydd dros dro, ac nid oes dim yn y Mesur i atal cwyn rhag cael ei hystyried lle cafodd cwyn o natur debyg ei diystyru. Cafodd y pwyllgor gyngor cyfreithiol na fyddai'r darpariaethau erlyniad dwbl yn gymwys mewn achosion o'r fath, a hoffwn ei atgoffa nad llys barn yw hwn.
Gan symud ymlaen at Huw Irranca-Davies, diolch i Huw Irranca-Davies am ei gyfraniad. Mae'r pwyllgor yn ystyried, ac fe wnaeth yn yr achos hwn, a yw Aelod yn ymddiheuro fel rhan o'i ystyriaethau. Yn yr achos hwn, rhoddodd ystyriaeth i ddiffyg edifeirwch yr Aelod, a nodir yn yr adroddiad, wrth ddod i'n casgliad. Byddem yn hapus i edrych ar y pwyntiau a godwch yn ogystal, gan y byddwn yn edrych ar gosbau pan fydd ein gwaith ar y cod ymddygiad wedi'i gwblhau. Mae'n amserol i ni adolygu hwnnw a gwneud yn siŵr eu bod yn addas at y diben.
Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Therefore, we defer voting under this item until voting time.
Diolch. Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Felly, rydym yn gohirio'r pleidleisio ar yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
Item 6 on the agenda is a debate on a Member's legislative proposal on child victims of sexual abuse. I call on Bethan Sayed to move the motion. Bethan.
Eitem 6 ar yr agenda yw dadl ar gynnig deddfwriaethol gan Aelod ar blant sydd wedi cael eu cam-drin yn rhywiol. Galwaf ar Bethan Sayed i wneud y cynnig. Bethan.
Cynnig NDM7021 Bethan Sayed
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn nodi'r cynnig i gael bil i ddiwygio a gwella cefnogaeth ar gyfer plant sydd wedi cael eu cam-drin yn rhywiol yng Nghymru.
2. Yn nodi mai diben y Bil hwn fyddai:
a) cyflwyno'r Model Barnahus o gymorth i ddioddefwyr gyda phwyslais therapiwtig;
b) gweithio gyda'r heddlu i ddefnyddio'r Model Barnahus o gynnal ymchwiliad i bob achos o gam-drin plant yn rhywiol; ac
c) yn cyflwyno newidiadau statudol i wella llety brys a llety dros dro i blant sydd wedi'u cam-drin, sy'n methu â dychwelyd i'w cartref neu sy'n ddigartref.
Motion NDM7021 Bethan Sayed
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Notes a proposal for a bill to reform and improve support for child victims of sexual abuse in Wales.
2. Notes that the purpose of this bill would be to:
a) introduce the Barnahus Model of therapeutic led support for victims;
b) work with police to use the Barnahus Model of investigation in all cases of child sexual abuse; and
c) introduce statutory changes to improve emergency and temporary accommodation for abused children who cannot return to their home or are homeless.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
I was keen to bring this debate today because I and others here have been intrigued and interested by this debate into the models of delivery of support services in this arena.
Members will be aware of the petition, which is still under consideration by the Petitions Committee, relating to the Barnahus model and to increasing provision of safety and support for child sex abuse victims. The petition was brought by one of my South Wales West constituents, Mayameen Meftahi, who has been a strong advocate for a reform in services available for child sex abuse victims. This shows the strength of the petitions system. I met her at the petition presentation and she did have a very strong effect on me when she told me her personal story of the harrowing experience that she'd gone through in her childhood.
This is a really emotive issue and it's something that none of us here, I'm sure, will not be moved by, along with people across the country. The point of bringing this debate is my attempt to offer some of those ideas to the floor of the Senedd so we can see what consensus there is and to elaborate on the feasibility of these ideas. I'm sure that they will be given serious consideration by the Government.
Roeddwn yn awyddus i gyflwyno'r ddadl hon heddiw oherwydd fy mod i ac eraill yma wedi bod â diddordeb yn y ddadl hon ar fodelau darparu gwasanaethau cymorth yn y maes hwn.
Bydd yr Aelodau yn ymwybodol o'r ddeiseb, sy'n dal dan ystyriaeth gan y Pwyllgor Deisebau, mewn perthynas â'r model Barnahus a chynyddu'r ddarpariaeth ddiogelwch a chymorth i blant sydd wedi cael eu cam-drin yn rhywiol. Cyflwynwyd y ddeiseb gan un o fy etholwyr yn ardal Gorllewin De Cymru, Mayameen Meftahi, sydd wedi bod yn dadlau'n gryf dros ddiwygio'r gwasanaethau a geir ar gyfer plant sydd wedi cael eu cam-drin yn rhywiol. Mae hyn yn dangos cryfder y system ddeisebau. Cyfarfûm â hi yn y digwyddiad i gyflwyno'r ddeiseb ac fe wnaeth argraff fawr arnaf pan ddywedodd ei stori bersonol wrthyf ynglŷn â'r profiad dirdynnol roedd hi wedi byw drwyddo yn ei phlentyndod.
Mae hwn yn fater emosiynol iawn ac mae'n rhywbeth y bydd pawb yma, rwy'n siŵr, yn cael ei gyffwrdd ganddo, ynghyd â phobl ledled y wlad. Pwynt cyflwyno'r ddadl hon yw fy ymgais i gynnig rhai o'r syniadau hynny i lawr y Senedd fel y gallwn weld pa gonsensws a geir ac i ymhelaethu ar ddichonoldeb y syniadau hyn. Rwy'n siŵr y byddant yn cael ystyriaeth ddifrifol gan y Llywodraeth.
I recognise that some of the ideas we'll discuss are relatively new concepts in the UK, but I believe that they form part of a crucial potential revolution in how we treat children and how we can support children, many of whom will be in a place of abject despair and trauma.
My motion focuses on three primary points: how we can work with police to produce better outcomes as part of the Barnahus model; how we can provide an increase in provision and ensure the multiple levels of support and assessment are in one place; and how we can offer a refuge for children in need.
The Barnahus model was launched in Iceland in 1998 as a direct response to some of the same problems that we see in many other countries, including our own: conviction rates lower than they should be; children not feeling safe enough or not being supported enough to come forward; children worried about repercussions if they did come forward; children in a place of deep trauma, without the kind of necessary supportive environment absolutely essential to help someone vulnerable in a very dark place to open up. The Barnahus model, or 'child house', as it is translated directly, has been a success story. The services are therapeutic-led, with trained professionals leading a safe environment designed with children in mind. And the Barnahus acts as a one-place suite for services. These include the forensic interview, medical examination and child and family therapy. Witness testimony against an abuser can also be given without the need for a victim to give multiple testimonies in multiple settings.
Many victims of child sex abuse often do not have a particularly good view of statutory services and, in some cases, do not have the best direct experiences either. Many child sex abuse victims have not been a victim of just one kind of abuse. A lot of children will also have potentially fallen into difficulties with authorities for varied reasons, often related to the abuses they have suffered, and will not have confidence or ease in talking to police or authorities.
When a victim does come forward, it's more common than not that, under the current system, prosecution will not be successful. There are regular instances of evidentiary requirements not being met, and often this is intertwined with children not meeting the common expectations for witnesses. Due to the stress and trauma of the settings in which a child victim is required to give evidence or dropping out of the process at some point after it's started, for myriad reasons, this is not surprising.
The well-being of a child is also placed in jeopardy, as the re-traumatising effect of multiple interviews across different authorities is poor practice, yet it is an accepted practice. It's one reason why the time taken to bring a charge in CSA cases is significantly longer than for adults. A clinical psychologist-led interview process in one room, where courts can listen and ask questions live, is a better model, and it's supported by authorities across this country, which are encouraging this model to be tried, including the former Home Secretary, Amber Rudd. So, working with the police on this is essential, and this is within our competence. The Children's Commissioner for England, for example, has already teamed up, to trial the model, with some police services in England, and urged each police force area to establish the model by 2016. I think there's little reason why Wales shouldn't or couldn't do the very same. Of course this would require potential investment, and I'm not suggesting that the current model of sexual assault referral centres be scrapped completely in favour of something brand new. That's not what I'm saying here today. The current work of SARCs, in partnership with regional safeguarding boards, could be built upon where they currently work well, or the Barnahus could be established in some areas of the country where there is a significant lack of provision at the moment. And that's something that third sector bodies have raised with me as a result of this legislative proposal being chosen.
We have to do better here in Wales. I appreciate that policing is not directly devolved, however this system of assessment, support and interviews all under one roof is already available in pilot centres in London, and police and crime commissioners can be worked with on this agenda. In fact, the PCC for north Wales has already expressed to me his willingness to support a similar model here in Wales.
This is a model that has been successful. It's been applied across the Nordic countries, where substantial improvements have been witnessed. Conviction rates doubled in Iceland, and the time taken to complete assessments and investigations lowered dramatically. This model has been adopted in parts of the US and Canada as child advocacy centres from the 1980s, and there is a movement across Europe for this to be rolled out. So, I personally don't accept the view that this is an idea that would need a substantial level of work to investigate, or adaptations, in order to find a suitable model for Wales. Sometimes it's appropriate to follow international best practice and to do so immediately. Sorry to quote the commissioner for England again, but, I quote:
'Experiences in Sweden, Norway and Denmark demonstrate that the model can be adapted and implemented within the legal framework of another country, without compromising the core principles which deliver such impressive results.'
So, we wouldn't need to compromise anything we are currently doing.
I was very keen when submitting this motion that it should include a discussion regarding safe houses and refuge accommodation. If a child turns up to a police station or makes an allegation to a teacher regarding a parent, guardian or family member sexually abusing them, then I believe it right that there is a safe space and accommodation available for that child to go to be supported whilst waiting for the statutory process to go into effect or to wait for the appropriate foster care options. At the moment, local authorities have the power to issue emergency care orders and for children to go into foster care, but I don't believe that this should be the only option.
Although there are excellent networks of foster carers across the country who do sterling work in this area, there is also a shortage of foster carers. In 2018 it was noted that Wales faced a shortfall of over 500; across the UK, it was estimated by the Fostering Network that 8,000 were needed to fill the gaps in provision.
When a child is placed in an emergency foster care situation, there is also no guarantee that the family will have specific experience of dealing with children with sexual abuse, although I appreciate that they would hope to be able to deal with that in the most appropriate way. That child would often be placed in a temporary situation, before moving on to a foster carer with, hopefully, more experience with that particular background in mind. But the specialist care and support would not necessarily be available immediately.
Women's Aid has supported the calls for safe houses for children because there is a postcode lottery for children in many cases, and because the specialist support and environment available to a woman who enters a women's refuge are incredibly important. That same supportive and specialist environment should be available to a vulnerable child, even if only as a short-term option.
As I said earlier, the petition calling for child houses in Wales was brought by a Swansea constituent of mine, Mayameen Meftahi, who herself suffered from abuse and ran away from home but was returned to an abusive household—that's something that she never wants to see happen to anybody else. She has called for child safe houses because the reality of the pressures of the trauma on the child facing up and coming forward with an experience as harrowing as this is absolutely enormous—we can't underestimate the experience that child will have to go through. Will they be believed? Will someone listen to them? Will they face the prospect of having to return home? Will someone in the family convince them to retract that particular allegation? We've seen it happen. We've seen it in the news—we've seen these stories and we don't want to see them again.
The option of a refuge setting, where a child can get support to deal with these issues and decisions, is an option worth investigating. Let's not forget that there are big decisions and a very big process forced onto the shoulders of a very vulnerable child. I'm prepared to listen to the Government and other Members on the practicalities of setting up options such as this, and to what extent joint working across statutory agencies and appropriate third sector partners could mean. I'm encouraged by the Welsh children's commissioner's words that she would welcome engagement on how best to approach the setting up of a safe space or refuge, and how that could work. I know that there is a piece of work under way at the moment into this particular model in London—it's called the Lighthouse project. But even though that review is underway, that doesn't stop us from adopting it here—it has been working successfully there so far.
Just to finish, I would genuinely encourage the Government to support this motion today as part of a wider suite of ways to reform the system for the better. We know that this is a very sensitive area, but we also know that those who have experienced abuse are sometimes best placed to tell us what needs to happen, and in this case I think that's right.
Rwy'n cydnabod bod rhai o'r syniadau y byddwn yn eu trafod yn gysyniadau cymharol newydd yn y DU, ond credaf eu bod yn rhan o chwyldro hanfodol posibl yn y ffordd yr ydym yn trin plant a sut y gallwn gynorthwyo plant, y bydd llawer ohonynt mewn lle truenus o anobaith a thrawma.
Mae fy nghynnig yn canolbwyntio ar dri phwynt sylfaenol: sut y gallwn weithio gyda'r heddlu i gynhyrchu canlyniadau gwell fel rhan o'r model Barnahus; sut y gallwn sicrhau cynnydd yn y ddarpariaeth a sicrhau'r lefelau lluosog o gymorth ac asesiad mewn un man; a sut y gallwn gynnig lloches i blant mewn angen.
Lansiwyd model Barnahus yng Ngwlad yr Iâ yn 1998 fel ymateb uniongyrchol i rai o'r un problemau a welwn mewn llawer o wledydd eraill, gan gynnwys ein gwlad ni: cyfraddau euogfarnau is nag y dylent fod; plant nad ydynt yn teimlo'n ddigon diogel neu heb eu cefnogi ddigon i roi gwybod; plant yn poeni am y canlyniadau pe baent yn rhoi gwybod; plant mewn trawma dwfn, heb y math o amgylchedd cefnogol sy'n gwbl angenrheidiol i helpu rhywun sy'n agored i niwed ac mewn lle tywyll iawn i ddweud beth sy'n digwydd. Mae model Barnahus, neu 'tŷ plentyn', fel y mae'n cyfieithu'n uniongyrchol, wedi bod yn llwyddiant. Maent yn wasanaethau dan arweiniad therapiwtig, gyda gweithwyr proffesiynol hyfforddedig yn arwain amgylchedd diogel wedi'i gynllunio i fod yn ystyriol o blant. Ac mae'r Barnahus yn gweithredu fel ystafelloedd mewn un lle ar gyfer gwasanaethau. Mae'r rhain yn cynnwys y cyfweliad fforensig, archwiliad meddygol a therapi plant a theuluoedd. Gellir rhoi tystiolaeth tyst yn erbyn y sawl sy'n cam-drin heb fod angen i ddioddefwr roi tystiolaeth sawl gwaith mewn nifer o leoliadau.
Yn aml, ni fydd gan lawer o blant sy'n cael eu cam-drin ddarlun arbennig o dda o'r gwasanaethau statudol ac mewn rhai achosion, nid ydynt wedi cael y profiadau uniongyrchol gorau ychwaith. Bydd llawer o blant sydd wedi cael eu cam-drin yn rhywiol wedi cael eu cam-drin mewn ffyrdd eraill hefyd. Bydd llawer o blant wedi bod mewn trafferthion gydag awdurdodau hefyd o bosibl am resymau amrywiol, yn aml yn gysylltiedig â'r cam-drin y maent wedi'i ddioddef, ac ni fydd ganddynt hyder i siarad yn rhwydd â'r heddlu neu'r awdurdodau.
Pan fydd plentyn yn rhoi gwybod beth sydd wedi digwydd, yn amlach na heb, o dan y system bresennol, ni fydd erlyniad yn llwyddiannus. Ceir achosion rheolaidd o fethu cydymffurfio â gofynion tystio, ac yn aml mae hyn yn cydblethu â methiant plant i fodloni disgwyliadau cyffredin ar gyfer tystion. Oherwydd straen a thrawma'r lleoliadau y mae disgwyl i blentyn sydd wedi cael eu cam-drin roi tystiolaeth ynddynt neu am eu bod yn rhoi'r gorau i'r broses ar ryw adeg wedi iddi gychwyn, am lu o resymau, nid yw hyn yn syndod.
Hefyd rhoddir lles plentyn mewn perygl, gan fod effaith cyfweliadau lluosog yn ail-greu trawma ar draws gwahanol awdurdodau yn arfer gwael, ac eto mae'n arfer sy'n cael ei dderbyn. Dyna un rheswm pam y mae'r amser y mae'n ei gymryd i gyflwyno cyhuddiad mewn achosion asiantaeth cynnal plant gryn dipyn yn hwy nag ar gyfer oedolion. Mae proses gyfweld dan arweiniad seicolegydd clinigol mewn un ystafell, lle gall llysoedd wrando a gofyn cwestiynau'n fyw, yn fodel gwell, ac fe'i cefnogir gan awdurdodau ledled y wlad hon, sy'n annog treialu'r model hwn, gan gynnwys y cyn Ysgrifennydd Cartref, Amber Rudd. Felly, mae gweithio gyda'r heddlu ar hyn yn hanfodol, ac mae o fewn ein cymhwysedd. Mae Comisiynydd Plant Lloegr, er enghraifft, eisoes wedi ymuno gyda gwasanaethau heddlu yn Lloegr i dreialu'r model, ac wedi annog pob ardal heddlu i sefydlu'r model erbyn 2016. Credaf nad oes fawr o reswm pam na ddylai neu na allai Cymru wneud yr un peth. Wrth gwrs byddai hyn yn galw am fuddsoddiad posibl, ac nid wyf yn awgrymu y dylid cael gwared yn llwyr ar y model presennol o ganolfannau atgyfeirio ymosodiadau rhywiol o blaid rhywbeth newydd sbon. Nid dyna rwy'n ei ddweud yma heddiw. Gellid adeiladu ar waith presennol y canolfannau atgyfeirio ymosodiadau rhywiol mewn partneriaeth â byrddau diogelu rhanbarthol lle maent yn gweithio'n dda ar hyn o bryd, neu gellid sefydlu'r Barnahus mewn rhai ardaloedd o'r wlad lle mae'r ddarpariaeth yn brin iawn ar hyn o bryd. Ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth y mae cyrff trydydd sector wedi'i ddwyn i fy sylw o ganlyniad i ddewis y cynnig deddfwriaethol hwn.
Rhaid inni wneud yn well yma yng Nghymru. Rwy'n sylweddoli nad yw plismona wedi'i ddatganoli'n uniongyrchol, ond mae'r system hon o asesu, cefnogi a chyfweliadau i gyd o dan un to eisoes ar gael mewn canolfannau peilot yn Llundain, a gellir gweithio gyda chomisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu ar yr agenda hon. Yn wir, mae'r comisiynydd heddlu a throseddu ar gyfer gogledd Cymru eisoes wedi mynegi ei barodrwydd i gefnogi model tebyg yma yng Nghymru.
Mae hwn yn fodel sydd wedi bod yn llwyddiannus. Cafodd ei ddefnyddio ar draws y gwledydd Llychlynnaidd, lle gwelwyd gwelliannau sylweddol. Dyblodd cyfraddau euogfarnau yng Ngwlad yr Iâ, a gwelwyd gostyngiad dramatig yn yr amser a gymerir i gwblhau asesiadau ac ymchwiliadau. Mabwysiadwyd y model hwn mewn rhannau o'r UDA a Chanada fel canolfannau eiriolaeth plant o'r 1980au, ac mae ymgyrch ledled Ewrop i weld hyn yn cael ei gyflwyno. Felly, yn bersonol nid wyf yn derbyn y farn fod hwn yn syniad sy'n galw am lefel sylweddol o waith archwilio, neu gael addasiadau, er mwyn dod o hyd i fodel addas ar gyfer Cymru. Weithiau mae'n briodol dilyn arferion gorau yn rhyngwladol ac i wneud hynny ar unwaith. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf ddyfynnu comisiynydd Lloegr eto, ond, ac rwy'n dyfynnu:
Mae profiadau yn Sweden, Norwy a Denmarc yn dangos y gellir addasu a gweithredu'r model o fewn fframwaith cyfreithiol gwlad arall, heb beryglu'r egwyddorion craidd sy'n sicrhau canlyniadau mor drawiadol.
Felly, ni fyddai angen inni beryglu unrhyw beth a wnawn ar hyn o bryd.
Roeddwn yn awyddus iawn wrth gyflwyno'r cynnig hwn iddo gynnwys trafodaeth ynghylch tai diogel a llety mewn llochesau. Os yw plentyn yn mynd i orsaf yr heddlu neu'n gwneud honiad wrth athro ynglŷn â rhiant, gwarcheidwad neu aelod o'r teulu sy'n cam-drin yn rhywiol, credaf ei bod hi'n iawn fod lle diogel a llety ar gael i'r plentyn allu mynd iddo i gael cefnogaeth wrth aros i'r broses statudol ddod yn weithredol neu i aros am yr opsiynau gofal maeth priodol. Ar hyn o bryd, mae gan awdurdodau lleol bŵer i gyhoeddi gorchmynion gofal brys ac i blant fynd i ofal maeth, ond nid wyf yn credu y dylai hyn fod yn unig opsiwn.
Er bod rhwydweithiau rhagorol o ofalwyr maeth ar draws y wlad yn gwneud gwaith rhagorol yn y maes hwn, ceir prinder gofalwyr maeth hefyd. Yn 2018 nodwyd bod Cymru yn wynebu diffyg o fwy na 500; ledled y DU, amcangyfrifodd y rhwydwaith maethu fod angen 8,000 i lenwi'r bylchau yn y ddarpariaeth.
Pan gaiff plentyn ei leoli mewn sefyllfa gofal maeth brys, ni cheir sicrwydd ychwaith y bydd gan y teulu brofiad penodol o ymdrin â phlant sydd wedi cael eu cam-drin yn rhywiol, er fy mod yn sylweddoli y byddent yn gobeithio gallu ymdrin â hynny yn y ffordd fwyaf priodol. Yn aml, byddai'r plentyn yn cael ei osod mewn sefyllfa dros dro, cyn symud ymlaen at ofalwr maeth gyda mwy o brofiad, gobeithio, gyda'r cefndir penodol hwnnw mewn cof. Ond ni fyddai'r gofal a'r cymorth arbenigol ar gael ar unwaith o reidrwydd.
Mae Cymorth i Fenywod wedi cefnogi'r galwadau am dai diogel ar gyfer plant oherwydd ceir loteri cod post i blant mewn llawer o achosion, ac oherwydd bod y cymorth arbenigol a'r amgylchedd sydd ar gael i fenyw sy'n mynd i loches menywod yn eithriadol o bwysig. Dylai fod yr un amgylchedd cefnogol ac arbenigol ar gael i blentyn sy'n agored i niwed, hyd yn oed os mai opsiwn ar gyfer y tymor byr yn unig ydyw.
Fel y dywedais yn gynharach, cyflwynwyd y ddeiseb yn galw am dai plant yng Nghymru gan etholwr i mi yn Abertawe, Mayameen Meftahi, a gafodd ei cham-drin ac a redodd i ffwrdd o'i chartref ond cafodd ei dychwelyd i aelwyd a oedd yn ei cham-drin—dyna rywbeth nad yw hi byth eisiau ei weld yn digwydd i unrhyw un arall. Mae wedi galw am dai diogel ar gyfer plant oherwydd bod realiti pwysau'r trawma ar y plentyn sy'n wynebu ac yn rhoi gwybod am brofiadau mor ofnadwy â hyn yn wirioneddol enfawr—ni allwn fychanu'r profiad y bydd y plentyn hwnnw'n gorfod mynd drwyddo. A gânt eu credu? A fydd rhywun yn gwrando arnynt? A fyddant yn wynebu'r posibilrwydd o orfod dychwelyd adref? A fydd rhywun yn y teulu yn eu hargyhoeddi i dynnu'r honiad penodol hwnnw yn ôl? Rydym wedi ei weld yn digwydd. Rydym wedi'i weld yn y newyddion—rydym wedi gweld y straeon hyn ac nid ydym am eu gweld eto.
Mae opsiwn llochesau, lle gall plentyn gael cymorth i ymdrin â'r materion a'r penderfyniadau hyn, yn opsiwn gwerth ei archwilio. Gadewch inni beidio ag anghofio bod penderfyniadau mawr a phroses fawr iawn yn cael eu gorfodi ar ysgwyddau plant agored iawn i niwed. Rwy'n barod i wrando ar y Llywodraeth ac Aelodau eraill ar ymarferoldeb sefydlu opsiynau fel hyn, ac i ba raddau y gallai olygu cydweithio ar draws asiantaethau statudol a phartneriaid trydydd sector priodol. Caf fy nghalonogi gan eiriau comisiynydd plant Cymru y byddai'n croesawu ymgysylltiad ar y ffordd orau o fynd ati i sefydlu gofod diogel neu loches, a sut y gallai hynny weithio. Gwn fod gwaith ar y gweill ar hyn o bryd ar y model arbennig hwn yn Llundain—prosiect Lighthouse yw ei enw. Ond er bod yr adolygiad hwnnw ar y gweill, nid yw hynny yn ein hatal ni rhag ei fabwysiadu yma—mae wedi bod yn gweithio'n llwyddiannus yno hyd yma.
I orffen, buaswn yn annog y Llywodraeth yn gryf i gefnogi'r cynnig hwn heddiw fel rhan o gyfres ehangach o ffyrdd i ddiwygio'r system er gwell. Rydym yn gwybod bod hwn yn faes sensitif iawn, ond fe wyddom hefyd mai'r rhai sydd wedi cael eu cam-drin sydd yn y sefyllfa orau weithiau i ddweud wrthym beth ddylai ddigwydd, ac yn yr achos hwn, credaf fod hynny'n iawn.
Thank you very much. Can I just gently remind Members that it's a 30-minute debate? It's going to be interesting to see how Bethan goes backwards now to reply to the debate, but I will be lenient. Can I just remind Members that it's three minutes, and the Minister has six minutes to speak? Let's see how we get on. Janet Finch-Saunders.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. A gaf fi atgoffa'r Aelodau'n garedig mai dadl 30 munud y hon? Mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol gweld sut y bydd Bethan yn mynd tuag at yn ôl nawr i ymateb i'r ddadl, ond fe fyddaf yn drugarog. Hoffwn atgoffa'r Aelodau mai tri munud yn unig sydd ganddynt, ac mae gan y Gweinidog chwe munud i siarad? Gadewch i ni weld sut y gwnawn ni. Janet Finch-Saunders.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I would like to thank the Member for bringing this motion to debate and reminding us all of the need to work towards the protection and safeguarding of our children and young people that are victims of the most horrific sexual abuse and exploitation. I am terribly concerned by the statistics on current sexual abuse, and the serious and often long-term psychological harm that this can have on victims. Approximately 54,000 sexual offences were committed against children under the age of 18 in the period between October 2015 and 2016.
Sexual abuse can occur in multiple forms, from rape, sexual activity, sexual assault, trafficking, abuse of trust, voyeurism, and other non-consensual and manipulative abuse. Given the inevitable psychological distress, pain and suffering that accompanies sexual abuse, I agree that Wales—having read more into it—should also look to adopt the Barnahus Icelandic model.
As explained by the NHS England review of pathway following sexual assault for children and young people in 2005, the Barnahus model fully integrates the psychological care and treatment that these victims need early on in their recovery, and when they report the crime. Crucially, this model emphasises the inclusion of fully qualified and experienced mental health practitioners. There will be full integration of all bodies that would have close involvement with a child sexual abuse case.
Indeed, two of the biggest hurdles that need to be overcome in properly tackling sexual abuse are the building of trust and confidence in young people to come forward, and to reduce and mitigate the feelings of fear and self-blame that are often entrenched in sexual abuses cases. The key to the former, of course, involves the police and their relationship to communities and to the public. Perhaps this aspect of police work needs to be emphasised more, with better police training, and also looking at how they do interact when reports come in.
In summary, I wish to express my approval of this motion in order to protect some of our most vulnerable children. Comprehensive changes are needed, and this does include, I think, working towards the principle that Bethan Sayed AM has mentioned, the Barnahus model, as in Iceland, Norway, Greenland and Denmark. As well as preventing re-traumatisation and continuing to offer therapeutic intervention services, we should also strive to overcome the emotional factors that cause such poor prosecution rates. Thank you and well done, Bethan.
Diolch ichi, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Hoffwn ddiolch i'r Aelod am gyflwyno'r cynnig hwn ar gyfer dadl ac am ein hatgoffa ni i gyd o'r angen i weithio tuag at amddiffyn a diogelu ein plant a'n pobl ifanc sydd wedi cael eu cam-drin a'u hecsbloetio'n rhywiol yn y modd mwyaf erchyll. Rwy'n bryderus iawn ynglŷn â'r ystadegau ar gam-drin rhywiol ar hyn o bryd, a'r niwed seicolegol difrifol a hirdymor y gall hyn ei achosi i ddioddefwyr. Cyflawnwyd oddeutu 54,000 o droseddau rhywiol yn erbyn plant o dan 18 oed yn y cyfnod rhwng Hydref 2015 a 2016.
Gall cam-drin rhywiol ddigwydd mewn nifer o ffyrdd, o drais rhywiol, gweithgaredd rhywiol, ymosodiadau rhywiol, masnachu mewn pobl, camfanteisio ar ymddiriedaeth, voyeuriaeth a ffurfiau eraill ar gam-drin ystrywgar a cham-drin nad yw'n gydsyniol. O gofio'r trallod seicolegol, y poen a'r dioddefaint anochel y mae cam-drin rhywiol yn ei achosi, rwy'n cytuno y dylai Cymru—ar ôl darllen mwy amdano—edrych ar fabwysiadu model Barnahus o Wlad yr Iâ.
Fel yr eglurodd adolygiad GIG Lloegr o'r llwybr yn dilyn ymosodiadau rhywiol ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc yn 2005, mae'r model Barnahus yn integreiddio'n llawn y gofal a'r driniaeth seicolegol sydd eu hangen ar y dioddefwyr hyn yn gynnar wrth iddynt wella, a phan fyddant yn rhoi gwybod am y drosedd. Yn hanfodol, mae'r model hwn yn pwysleisio y dylid cynnwys ymarferwyr iechyd meddwl profiadol sydd wedi cymhwyso'n llawn. Bydd yr holl gyrff a fyddai'n ymwneud yn agos ag achos o gam-drin plentyn yn rhywiol wedi'u hintegreiddio’n llawn.
Yn wir, dau o'r rhwystrau mwyaf y mae angen eu goresgyn wrth fynd i'r afael yn briodol â cham-drin rhywiol yw adeiladu ymddiriedaeth a hyder mewn pobl ifanc er mwyn iddynt roi gwybod, ac i leihau a lliniaru'r teimladau o ofn a beio'r hunan sy'n aml wedi gwreiddio mewn achosion o gam-drin rhywiol. Mae'r allwedd i'r cyntaf, wrth gwrs, yn ymwneud â'r heddlu a'u perthynas â chymunedau a'r cyhoedd. Efallai bod angen pwysleisio'r agwedd hon ar waith yr heddlu yn well, gyda hyfforddiant gwell ar gyfer yr heddlu, ac edrych hefyd i weld sut y maent yn rhyngweithio pan ddaw adroddiadau i mewn.
I grynhoi, hoffwn fynegi fy nghymeradwyaeth i'r cynnig hwn er mwyn amddiffyn rhai o'n plant mwyaf agored i niwed. Mae angen newidiadau cynhwysfawr, ac yn fy marn i mae hynny'n cynnwys gweithio tuag at yr egwyddor a grybwyllodd Bethan Sayed AC, y model Barnahus, fel yng Ngwlad yr Iâ, Norwy, yr Ynys Las a Denmarc. Yn ogystal ag atal ail-drawmateiddio a pharhau i gynnig gwasanaethau ymyrraeth therapiwtig, dylem ymdrechu hefyd i oresgyn y ffactorau emosiynol sy'n achosi cyfraddau erlyn mor wael. Diolch a da iawn, Bethan.
Well done. Caroline Jones.
Da iawn. Caroline Jones.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I would like to thank Bethan for bringing forward this proposed legislation, and I want to say at the outset that I fully support her in this. Like Bethan, I met Mayameen when she came to the Senedd to present her petition, calling for the provision of child houses in Wales for victims of child sexual abuse. I spent time with Mayameen as she informed a couple of us of her harrowing tale of abuse by her father. Her bravery and strength of spirit shone through. I can safely say that she is one of the most inspirational persons I have ever had the pleasure to meet.
Mayameen did not want other child victims to suffer from the same lack of basic support that she had suffered. And she said a child suffering any form of abuse should not be returned to that same environment once they have made that complaint and it has become known by certain services.
By adopting the Barnahus model, it is not necessarily about the creation of multiple safe houses, but recognising that we are failing to provide any basic provision for child victims of sexual abuse. The model has been so successful around the world and in other parts of the UK that it has been widely adopted as the preferred model by experts in child protection. Wales needs to adopt this model to ensure that children who are suffering child abuse will have somewhere to escape. Without Barnahus, they will be returned back home, back into the arms of their abuser, just like we did to Mayameen.
Mayameen has spoken out so that others don't suffer like she did as a child. We owe it to her and countless other victims of child sexual abuse to listen. Communication and teamwork between agencies such as social services and police are of paramount importance in these cases. This proposal answers those calls and I urge Members to support it and to pass this legislation as soon as we can. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Hoffwn ddiolch i Bethan am gyflwyno'r ddeddfwriaeth arfaethedig hon, ac rwyf am ddweud ar y dechrau fy mod yn ei chefnogi'n llwyr yn hyn o beth. Fel Bethan, cyfarfûm â Mayameen pan ddaeth i'r Senedd i gyflwyno ei deiseb yn galw am ddarparu tai plant yng Nghymru ar gyfer plant sy'n cael eu cam-drin yn rhywiol. Treuliais amser gyda Mayameen pan adroddodd ei stori erchyll wrth un neu ddau ohonom am y modd y cafodd ei cham-drin gan ei thad. Roedd ei dewrder a chryfder ei hysbryd yn eglur iawn. Gallaf ddweud yn bendant ei bod yn un o'r bobl fwyaf ysbrydoledig y cefais y pleser o gyfarfod â hwy.
Nid oedd Mayameen eisiau i blant eraill ddioddef o'r un diffyg cefnogaeth sylfaenol ag y mae hi wedi'i ddioddef. A dywedodd na ddylid mynd â phlentyn sy'n dioddef unrhyw fath o gam-drin yn ôl i'r un amgylchedd wedi iddynt wneud y gŵyn honno ac wedi iddi ddod yn hysbys i wasanaethau penodol.
Drwy fabwysiadu'r model Barnahus, nid yw'n ymwneud o reidrwydd â chreu tai diogel lluosog, ond â chydnabod ein bod yn methu darparu unrhyw ddarpariaeth sylfaenol ar gyfer plant sy'n cael eu cam-drin yn rhywiol. Mae'r model wedi bod mor llwyddiannus ledled y byd ac mewn rhannau eraill o'r DU fel ei fod wedi'i fabwysiadu'n eang fel y model a ffafrir gan arbenigwyr ym maes amddiffyn plant. Mae Cymru angen mabwysiadu'r model hwn i sicrhau y bydd gan blant sy'n cael eu cam-drin rywle i ddianc iddo. Heb Barnahus, cânt eu dychwelyd adref, yn ôl i freichiau'r sawl a fu'n eu cam-drin, fel y gwnaethant i Mayameen.
Mae Mayameen wedi codi llais fel nad oes eraill yn dioddef fel y gwnaeth hi pan oedd yn blentyn. Mae'n ddyletswydd arnom i wrando arni hi ac ar blant dirifedi eraill sy'n cael eu cam-drin yn rhywiol. Mae cyfathrebu a gwaith tîm rhwng asiantaethau fel y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a'r heddlu yn hollbwysig yn yr achosion hyn. Mae'r cynnig hwn yn ateb y galwadau hynny ac anogaf yr Aelodau i'w gefnogi ac i basio'r ddeddfwriaeth hon cyn gynted ag y gallwn. Diolch yn fawr.
Thank you. Can I now call on the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services, Julie Morgan?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar y Dirprwy Weinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Julie Morgan?
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I thank Bethan Sayed for bringing this debate here today. I know we all agree that children who are sexually abused deserve the best possible, child-centred approach. Child sexual abuse has a significant detrimental impact on the well-being of children, as Members have said here today, and we know that this can often affect them throughout all their lives. Sometimes, they don't even reveal this abuse until much later in life because of the trauma it has caused. That's why services must operate in a way that supports children's emotional well-being and assists them to recover from the trauma of abuse.
The Government will publish a national action plan on preventing and responding to child sexual abuse in the summer. The plan will set out clear actions for the Welsh Government and for safeguarding board partners. This will include cross-Government action to strengthen support to children who are sexually abused. We've already published the violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence cross-Government delivery framework and together these policies set out our ambitions for strengthening support to children who are sexually abused and to adult survivors of sexual abuse.
The NHS is currently leading work, in partnership with the police, safeguarding partners and the third sector all working together, to develop a sustainable model of sexual assault services for children and adults in Wales. We are aware that the implementation of the Barnahus model in Iceland has secured positive outcomes, both for child-centred practice and in terms of a rise in indictments and convictions. It has been successful in doing that. And we know about the child house pilot in London, where criminal justice processes and therapeutic support for children are brought together in one site. It will be important to better understand how the model will work in the context of the UK justice system, and we will consider the evaluation of this pilot once completed. In developing therapeutic support services for children who are sexually abused, we will also consider the evidence on the efficacy of other child-centred approaches.
We do not agree that legislation is required to secure these changes in this area of practice, and the Government will abstain on this motion. Children who are sexually abused will be subject to safeguarding proceedings. This will include a consideration by social services of where a child should live in order to keep them safe. The ministerial advisory group on improving outcomes for children has a programme of work that includes further strengthening our approach to appropriate and safe placements for children who become looked after. We would not want to promote any situation where abused children are expected to directly access any emergency accommodation and we would be concerned about the risk that perpetrators could identify the location of such accommodation and could target children for abuse. We also provide funding to Childline, which offers a safe way for children who are being abused to make contact with a counsellor who can report the abuse to social services.
Our policy development and practice advice in this area is directly informed by evidence from children and adult survivors, who we consider to be experts in their own experiences. Welsh Ministers are committed to promoting the right to be safe for children in Wales, and feel that many of the points made in this debate today are vitally important.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd, a diolch i Bethan Sayed am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon yma heddiw. Gwn ein bod i gyd yn cytuno bod plant sy'n cael eu cam-drin yn rhywiol yn haeddu'r dull gorau posibl o weithredu, dull sy'n canolbwyntio ar y plentyn. Mae cael eu cam-drin yn rhywiol yn effeithio'n andwyol iawn ar les plant, fel y mae'r Aelodau wedi dweud yma heddiw, a gwyddom y gall hyn yn aml effeithio arnynt drwy gydol eu bywydau. Weithiau, ni fyddant yn datgelu'r cam-drin tan yn llawer diweddarach mewn bywyd oherwydd y trawma a achosodd. Dyna pam fod yn rhaid i wasanaethau weithredu mewn ffordd sy'n cefnogi lles emosiynol plant ac yn eu helpu i wella o drawma cam-drin.
Bydd y Llywodraeth yn cyhoeddi cynllun gweithredu cenedlaethol ar atal ac ymateb i gam-drin plant yn rhywiol yn yr haf. Bydd y cynllun yn nodi camau gweithredu clir ar gyfer Llywodraeth Cymru ac ar gyfer partneriaid byrddau diogelu. Bydd hyn yn cynnwys gweithredu trawslywodraethol er mwyn cryfhau cymorth i blant sydd wedi'u cam-drin rhywiol. Rydym eisoes wedi cyhoeddi fframwaith cyflawni trawslywodraethol ar drais yn erbyn menywod, cam-drin domestig a thrais rhywiol a chyda'i gilydd mae'r polisïau hyn yn nodi ein huchelgeisiau ar gyfer cryfhau cymorth i blant sy'n cael eu cam-drin yn rhywiol ac i oedolion sydd wedi goroesi cam-drin rhywiol.
Mae'r GIG ar hyn o bryd yn arwain gwaith, mewn partneriaeth â'r heddlu, partneriaid diogelu a'r trydydd sector oll yn gweithio gyda'i gilydd, i ddatblygu model cynaliadwy o wasanaethau ymosodiadau rhywiol ar gyfer plant ac oedolion yng Nghymru. Rydym yn ymwybodol bod gweithredu'r model Barnahus yng Ngwlad yr Iâ wedi sicrhau canlyniadau cadarnhaol, ar gyfer arferion sy'n canolbwyntio ar y plentyn ac o ran cynnydd mewn cyhuddiadau ac euogfarnau. Mae wedi llwyddo i wneud hynny. A gwyddom am gynllun peilot y tŷ plant yn Llundain, lle mae prosesau cyfiawnder troseddol a chymorth therapiwtig ar gyfer plant gyda'i gilydd ar un safle. Bydd yn bwysig deall yn well sut y bydd y model yn gweithio yng nghyd-destun system gyfiawnder y DU, a byddwn yn ystyried y gwerthusiad o'r cynllun peilot hwn ar ôl iddo ddod i ben. Wrth ddatblygu gwasanaethau cymorth therapiwtig i blant sy'n cael eu cam-drin yn rhywiol, byddwn hefyd yn ystyried y dystiolaeth ynghylch effeithiolrwydd dulliau eraill sy'n canolbwyntio ar y plentyn.
Nid ydym yn cytuno bod angen deddfwriaeth i sicrhau'r newidiadau hyn yn y maes gwaith hwn, a bydd y Llywodraeth yn ymatal ar y cynnig hwn. Bydd plant sy'n cael eu cam-drin yn rhywiol yn destun camau diogelu. Bydd hyn yn cynnwys ystyriaeth gan y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol o ble y dylai plentyn fyw er mwyn eu cadw'n ddiogel. Mae gan grŵp cynghori'r Gweinidog ar wella canlyniadau i blant raglen waith sy'n cynnwys cryfhau ymhellach ein dull o sicrhau lleoliadau priodol a diogel ar gyfer plant sy'n mynd i dderbyn gofal. Ni fyddem am hyrwyddo unrhyw sefyllfa lle mae disgwyl i blant sydd wedi'u cam-drin fynd yn uniongyrchol i unrhyw lety argyfwng a byddem yn pryderu am y risg y gallai cyflawnwyr ganfod lleoliad llety o'r fath a thargedu plant ar gyfer eu cam-drin. Rydym hefyd yn darparu cyllid i Childline, sy'n cynnig ffordd ddiogel i blant sy'n cael eu cam-drin ddod i gysylltiad â chwnselydd a all roi gwybod i'r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol am y cam-drin.
Caiff ein gwaith datblygu polisi a'n cyngor ymarfer yn y maes hwn ei lywio'n uniongyrchol gan dystiolaeth oddi wrth oroeswyr sy'n blant ac yn oedolion, ac ystyriwn mai hwy yw'r arbenigwyr ar eu profiadau eu hunain. Mae Gweinidogion Cymru yn ymrwymedig i hyrwyddo'r hawl i fod yn ddiogel ar gyfer plant yng Nghymru, ac yn teimlo bod llawer o'r pwyntiau a wnaed yn y ddadl hon heddiw yn hanfodol bwysig.
Thank you very much. I will allow Bethan to respond to the debate.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Rwyf am ganiatáu i Bethan ymateb i'r ddadl.
Sorry, I didn't realise the time had gone.
Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, nid oeddwn yn sylweddoli bod yr amser wedi mynd.
No, I thought you didn't. I thought you didn't.
Na, nid oeddwn yn meddwl eich bod. Nid oeddwn yn meddwl eich bod.
I won't be very long. I just wanted to thank Janet Finch-Saunders, as ever, for her support of this idea and others that I've put forward in the past, and to Caroline Jones as well—you were with me when I met with our constituent and I know that it had an impact on us and it will form a basis of future work, I'm sure. In relation to the response from the Government—obviously disappointed that you've decided not to support it today, although the abstention is something I'll take. You know, small wins.
Just to emphasise the fact that, for adults, for women, refuges do exist, and they are kept a secret from people. I visited them on a very confidential basis, and, yes, there may be instances where the abusers can find out the address, but I would like to think that, if we did set up this type of facility in Wales—we've seen from international examples that they are safe, that they are there for the child in every way, sense and form, and we could do it in a safe and supportive way here in Wales.
You say that you're waiting for the evaluation of the Lighthouse project in London, so I'm going to appeal to you that, if the evaluation comes out positively from the Lighthouse project in London, you will reconsider your abstention and that, as part of the action plan, you will be open-minded to considering this as a suite of ideas for that action plan, because I genuinely believe that this is one additional element to supporting children that could be there as an option, as opposed to trying to undermine everything else that's there—that's not what I'm saying. So, please keep an open mind, please look at the evaluation and include Assembly Members in the formulation of that action plan. That's something that we'd all like to work with you on. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Ni fyddaf yn hir iawn. Roeddwn am ddiolch i Janet Finch-Saunders, fel arfer, am ei chefnogaeth i'r syniad hwn ac i eraill a gyflwynais yn y gorffennol, ac i Caroline Jones hefyd—roeddech chi gyda mi pan gyfarfûm â'n hetholwr a gwn i hynny effeithio arnom, ac y bydd yn ffurfio sail i waith yn y dyfodol, rwy'n siŵr. O ran yr ymateb oddi wrth y Llywodraeth—yn amlwg rwy'n siomedig eich bod chi wedi penderfynu peidio â'i gefnogi heddiw, er bod yr ymatal yn rhywbeth a gymeraf. Enillion bychain, wyddoch chi.
Hoffwn bwysleisio'r ffaith bod llochesau yn bodoli ar gyfer oedolion, ar gyfer menywod, a chânt eu cadw'n gyfrinach oddi wrth bobl. Ymwelais â hwy ar sail gyfrinachol iawn, ac oes, efallai bod yna achosion lle gall rhai sy'n cam-drin ddarganfod y cyfeiriad, ond hoffwn feddwl, pe baem yn sefydlu'r math hwn o gyfleuster yng Nghymru—rydym wedi gweld o enghreifftiau rhyngwladol eu bod yn ddiogel, eu bod yno ar gyfer y plentyn ym mhob ffordd, ystyr a ffurf, a gallem ei wneud mewn modd diogel a chefnogol yma yng Nghymru.
Dywedwch eich bod yn aros am y gwerthusiad o brosiect Lighthouse yn Llundain, felly rwy'n mynd i apelio arnoch, os yw'r gwerthusiad yn gadarnhaol o'r prosiect Lighthouse yn Llundain, a wnewch chi ailystyried eich penderfyniad i ymatal, ac y byddwch, fel rhan o'r cynllun gweithredu, yn agored i ystyried hyn fel cyfres o syniadau ar gyfer y cynllun gweithredu hwnnw, oherwydd credaf yn ddiffuant fod hon yn un elfen ychwanegol i gefnogi plant a allai fod yno fel opsiwn, yn hytrach na cheisio tanseilio popeth arall sydd yno—nid dyna rwy'n ei ddweud. Felly, os gwelwch yn dda cadwch eich meddwl yn agored, edrychwch ar y gwerthusiad a chynhwyswch Aelodau'r Cynulliad wrth lunio'r cynllun gweithredu hwnnw. Mae hynny'n rhywbeth y byddai pawb ohonom yn hoffi gweithio arno gyda chi. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Thank you. The proposal is to note the proposal. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Okay. Therefore, we vote on this item at voting time.
Diolch. Y cynnig yw nodi'r cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] O'r gorau. Felly, fe bleidleisiwn ar yr eitem hon yn ystod y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
Item 7 on our agenda this afternoon is a debate on the Finance Committee report, 'The implementation of fiscal devolution in Wales (2019)', and I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—Llyr Gruffydd.
Eitem 7 ar ein hagenda y prynhawn yma yw dadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyllid, 'Rhoi datganoli cyllidol ar waith yng Nghymru (2019)', a galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i wneud y cynnig—Llyr Gruffydd.
Cynnig NDM7030 Llyr Gruffydd
Cefnogwyd gan Siân Gwenllian
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyllid, 'Rhoi datganoli cyllidol ar waith yng Nghymru (2019)', a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 27 Mawrth 2019.
Motion NDM7030 Llyr Gruffydd
Supported by Siân Gwenllian
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
Notes the report of the Finance Committee, 'The implementation of fiscal devolution in Wales (2019)', which was laid in the Table Office on 27 March 2019.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Wel, diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd. Mae’n bleser gen i gael arwain y ddadl yma ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyllid ar roi datganoli cyllidol ar waith yng Nghymru. Mae amseriad y ddadl yma, wrth gwrs, yn arwyddocaol iawn oherwydd, ymhen tridiau, fe ddaw’r cyfraddau treth incwm y cytunwyd arnyn nhw yn y Cynulliad hwn i rym. Bach iawn fyddai pobl wedi meddwl, efallai, bydden ni wedi cyrraedd fan hyn flynyddoedd yn ôl. Ond mi fydd hyn, wrth gwrs, yn cynhyrchu tua £2 biliwn o dreth fydd yn cael ei chasglu bob blwyddyn yng Nghymru. Mae’r penderfyniad i gyflwyno cyfraddau treth incwm Cymreig yn trosglwyddo mwy o gyfrifoldeb cyllidol nag erioed o’r blaen yn hanes Cymru. Ac mae’n adeg allweddol, wrth gwrs, i ni felly o ran gweithredu datganoli cyllidol yng Nghymru a rhan olaf Deddf Cymru 2014. Hefyd, flwyddyn yn ôl i ddydd Llun, fe gyflwynwyd y trethi newydd cyntaf ers 800 o flynyddoedd yng Nghymru, sef y dreth trafodiadau tir a’r dreth gwarediadau tirlenwi; felly, mae wedi bod yn flwyddyn arwyddocaol iawn o ran datganoli cyllidol yng Nghymru.
Rwyf yn falch, felly, o gael agor y ddadl hon heddiw, fel Cadeirydd y pwyllgor, ar adeg mor bwysig yn ein hanes ni. Mi hoffwn i ddiolch i'r rhai, wrth gwrs, sydd wedi cyfrannu at yr ymchwiliad penodol o dan sylw. Mae'r pwyllgor yn falch o nodi bod y broses o roi datganoli cyllidol ar waith yng Nghymru wedi bod yn llwyddiannus hyd yma, i raddau helaeth. Yn benodol, mae’r penderfyniad i sefydlu Awdurdod Refeniw Cymru, ac yna i gyflwyno’r dreth trafodiadau tir a’r dreth gwarediadau tirlenwi, wedi bod yn gadarnhaol iawn. Mae'n galonogol nodi bod y gost derfynol o roi Awdurdod Refeniw Cymru ar waith yn cyd-fynd ag amcangyfrif cychwynnol Llywodraeth Cymru, sef tua £6 miliwn.
Fe drefnwyd i’r pwyllgor ymweld â swyddfeydd Awdurdod Refeniw Cymru yn Nhrefforest y llynedd, ac fe gafodd yr awyrgylch cadarnhaol a brwdfrydig mae'r sefydliad yna wedi'i feithrin, a'r arbenigedd mae wedi llwyddo i'w ddenu—fe gafodd hynny gryn argraff arnom ni fel aelodau o’r pwyllgor.
Ar adegau, wrth graffu ar waith Llywodraeth Cymru, rŷn ni’n gallu bod ychydig yn feirniadol o weision sifil, ond, y tro hwn, rŷn ni yn teimlo y dylid cydnabod eu gwaith caled a'u brwdfrydedd dros y broses hon.
Fodd bynnag, mae'r pwyllgor yn nodi mai dyddiau cynnar yw hi o ran sefydlu Awdurdod Refeniw Cymru, ac fe hoffai'r pwyllgor adleisio’r pryderon a nodon ni yn ein hadroddiad y llynedd ynghylch nifer y staff oedd yn gweithio ar fenthyg ac ar secondiad i’r awdurdod ar hyn o bryd. Er ein bod ni’n cydnabod manteision hwn wrth sefydlu’r awdurdod, rŷn ni’n credu bod angen rhoi sylw i’r gwaith o gynllunio'r gweithlu a'r camau sy'n cael eu cymryd i gadw gwybodaeth ac i gadw profiad o fewn yr awdurdod. Fe ddywedodd bwrdd Awdurdod Refeniw Cymru wrthym ni eu bod nhw’n rhoi sylw dyladwy i'r mater yma, a bod ‘pwyllgor pobl’ wedi’i sefydlu i ystyried sut i gadw staff. Mi fyddai'r Pwyllgor Cyllid yn ddiolchgar, felly, pe bai’r bwrdd yn anfon y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf atom ni bob blwyddyn, yn benodol yn y cyswllt hwn.
Ar 15 Ionawr, ar ôl pleidlais yn y Siambr hon, penderfynwyd mai 10c fyddai cyfraddau treth incwm Cymru, a hynny ym mhob band, sef yr un fath â'r gostyngiad canlyniadol yng nghyfraddau treth incwm y Deyrnas Unedig. Gan hynny, wrth gwrs, na fydd y cyfraddau y bydd pobl Cymru yn eu talu ddim yn newid eleni.
Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. It's my pleasure to lead this debate this afternoon on the report by the Finance Committee on the implementation of fiscal devolution in Wales. The timing of this debate is very timely, of course, because in three days income tax rates decided in this Chamber will come into force. I'm sure that not many people would have thought we would have reached this point many years ago, but this, of course, will generate about £2 billion-worth of tax that'll be collected each year in Wales. The decision to introduce Welsh rates of income tax represents the largest such transfer of responsibility in Wales's history. And it's a key moment for us in terms of implementing fiscal devolution in Wales and the final part of the Wales Act 2014. Also, Monday was the one-year anniversary of the introduction of the first new Welsh taxes for 800 years, namely the land transaction tax and the landfill disposals tax. So, it's been a significant year for fiscal devolution in Wales.
I'm pleased, therefore, to open this debate today as Chair of the Finance Committee at such an important juncture, and I'd like to thank those who contributed to the inquiry. The committee is happy to report that the implementation of fiscal devolution in Wales has so far been largely successful. In particular, the establishment of the Welsh Revenue Authority, and then the subsequent implementation of the land transaction tax and landfill disposals tax, have been very positive. It's reassuring to note that the final cost of implementing the WRA was delivered within the Welsh Government's initial estimate, at around £6 million.
The committee visited the WRA offices in Treforest last year, and the positive, enthusiastic culture that the organisation has fostered and the expertise they have attracted made a very positive impression on us as committee members.
At times, when scrutinising the Welsh Government's work, criticism can be directed at civil servants, but on this occasion we feel that we should acknowledge their hard work and their enthusiasm for this process.
However, the committee notes that it is early days for the establishment of the WRA, and the committee would like to echo its concerns from last year's report regarding the number of on loan staff and seconded staff that they currently retain at the authority. And, while we recognise the benefits of this approach in the establishment of the WRA, we do believe that consideration needs to be given to workforce planning and the steps being taken to retain knowledge and experience within the authority. The WRA board told us that they were giving this issue due consideration and that a 'people committee' had been established to consider the issue of staff retention. The committee would welcome annual updates from the board specifically on this issue.
On 15 January, following a vote in this Chamber, we decided that 10p would be the Welsh rate of income tax for each band, namely the same as the consequential reduction in UK income tax rates. This means that the rates that people in Wales pay will not change this year.
O'r dydd Sadwrn yma, bydd trethdalwyr Cymru'n talu cyfraddau treth incwm Cymru, ac, er na fydd trethdalwyr yma yng Nghymru yn gweld unrhyw wahaniaeth amlwg yn ystod y flwyddyn dreth nesaf, mae'r pwyllgor yn teimlo’i bod yn bwysig bod pawb yn gwybod am y newidiadau hyn ac yn eu deall nhw, ac rŷn ni'n pryderu, efallai, nad yw'r neges yn cyrraedd rhai o drethdalwyr Cymru.
Fe glywodd y pwyllgor fod rhai o’r farn bod y daflen a gyhoeddwyd gan Gyllid a Thollau Ei Mawrhydi a Llywodraeth Cymru braidd yn ddryslyd a bod rhai’n credu y bydden nhw'n talu 10c mwy na’r cyfraddau presennol drwy dalu treth incwm yng Nghymru. Yn ogystal â hyn, aeth y pwyllgor ati i gynnal arolwg anffurfiol ym mis Chwefror, ac mi ddangosodd hwn nad oedd bron un o bob tri o drethdalwyr Cymru yn gwybod am y newidiadau, ac mae hyn, yn amlwg, yn peri pryder. Nawr, mae Llywodraeth Cymru ar fin cynnal gwerthusiad ffurfiol o'i gwaith cyfathrebu ar ôl rhoi’r newidiadau ar waith, a bydden ni yn falch o gael y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am ganlyniadau'r gwerthusiad hwn pan fydd hynny ar gael.
Cadarnhaodd Cyllid a Thollau ei Mawrhydi fod y gwaith sydd ynghlwm wrth drosglwyddo’r dreth trafodion tir bron â'i gwblhau, a'u bod yn parhau’n hyderus y bydd y costau'n cyd-fynd â’r amcangyfrif diwygiedig o rhwng £1.75 miliwn a £2 filiwn. Cadarnhaodd Cyllid a Thollau ei Mawrhydi hefyd fod y gost o roi cyfraddau treth incwm Cymru ar waith hefyd o fewn yr amrediad o £7.5 miliwn i £9.5 miliwn a bennwyd ym mis Hydref. Hoffai'r pwyllgor gael gwybod y costau terfynol o ddileu’r dreth dir y dreth stamp a rhoi cyfraddau treth incwm Cymru ar waith cyn gynted ag y bydd y wybodaeth hon ar gael.
Nawr, fel rhan o'r ymchwiliad hwn, wrth gwrs, gwahoddodd y pwyllgor yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol i roi tystiolaeth i ni—fel gwnaeth y pwyllgor llynedd, wrth gwrs—ac rŷn ni yn siomedig iawn yn ei amharodrwydd ef i ymgysylltu â ni unwaith eto. Er y penderfyniad i gyflwyno cyfraddau Cymru, treth y Deyrnas Unedig, wrth gwrs, yw treth incwm o hyd, ac mae Cyllid a Thollau ei Mawrhydi'n un o adrannau Llywodraeth y DU hefyd, a nhw sy’n casglu'r dreth honno, wrth gwrs. Gan hynny, mae tystiolaeth yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn hanfodol, yn enwedig o ystyried na chafodd dros 400,000 o drethdalwyr yr Alban eu cynnwys yn eu system newydd nhw. Felly, mae'n hanfodol bod y pwyllgor yn gallu cadarnhau bod buddiannau Cymru'n cael eu diogelu'n ddigonol ar lefel y Deyrnas Unedig.
Roedd cynnig yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol i gwrdd ag Aelodau yn unigol ac yn breifat yn rhwystredig iawn, mae'n rhaid i fi ei ddweud. Mae'r pwyllgor o'r farn y dylid craffu’n gyhoeddus ar newidiadau sydd mor gyfansoddiadol bwysig. Byddai sesiwn bwyllgor ffurfiol a chyhoeddus yn llawer mwy priodol, yn llawer mwy tryloyw, ac yn llawer mwy gwerthfawr i bob un ohonom ni. Mae hyn yn arbennig o wir pan fo'n mor bwysig codi ymwybyddiaeth y cyhoedd o'r newidiadau hyn hefyd. Dyw trafodaethau preifat, fel roedd yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn eu cynnig, yn cyfrannu dim at ennyn diddordeb a hybu dealltwriaeth y cyhoedd.
Mae datganoli yng Nghymru yn dirwedd, wrth gwrs, sy'n newid yn gyson, ac mae'r pwyllgor yn falch bod y cam diweddaraf hwn yn y broses ddatganoli wedi'i chwblhau mewn ffordd sydd—mae’n ymddangos, beth bynnag—wedi bod yn bur ddidrafferth ac sydd wedi cael ei rheoli’n dda. Ond mae'n hanfodol peidio â gorffwys ar ein rhwyfau o ran rhoi gwybod i bobl Cymru am y newidiadau newydd hyn, ac mae'r pwyllgor yn bwriadu monitro hyn, yn ogystal â’r modd y mae’r trethi newydd a chyfraddau treth incwm Cymru'n gweithio yn ystod y misoedd a'r blynyddoedd nesaf.
Fodd bynnag, gan ein bod wedi datgan ei bod yn bwysig cydnabod pan fydd pethau'n cael eu gwneud yn dda, fe hoffwn i ganmol pawb a fu’n rhan o’r broses hyd yma, gan gynnwys y gwahanol Weinidogion cyllid a’r swyddogion, yn ogystal â'r modd y mae Cyllid a Thollau Ei Mawrhydi ac adrannau Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cydweithio gyda'i gilydd.
Mae creu system drethi newydd, sefydlu corff casglu trethi newydd, a chyflwyno newidiadau sylfaenol yn y modd y mae trethi’n gweithio yn y wlad hon yn ddigwyddiadau arwyddocaol iawn, ac mae’r gwaith yn mynd rhagddo ar amser, o fewn y gyllideb a bennwyd, ac yn llwyddiannus. Hoffwn i, felly, Dirprwy Lywydd, ddiolch i bawb a gyfrannodd at ymchwiliad y pwyllgor. Dwi'n edrych ymlaen at roi diweddariadau cyson i’r Cynulliad hwn yn ystod y blynyddoedd nesaf am y cyfnod newydd a chyffrous hwn o ddatganoli cyllidol yng Nghymru. Diolch.
From this Saturday, Welsh taxpayers will be paying these Welsh rates of income tax, and while taxpayers here in Wales will see little noticeable difference in the coming tax year, the committee feels that it is important that everyone knows about these changes and understands them, and we are concerned, perhaps, that the message is not reaching some Welsh taxpayers.
The committee heard that some had found that the leaflet that was issued by HMRC and the Welsh Government was confusing, with some interpreting it as meaning that they would have to pay 10p more than their current rates by paying income tax in Wales. In addition, the committee carried out informal polling in February, which suggested that almost a third of Welsh taxpayers remained unaware of the changes, and this is evidently concerning. The Welsh Government is about to undertake a formal evaluation of its communications activity post-implementation, and we would welcome a timely update on the outcomes of this evaluation when this is available.
HMRC confirmed that the work involved in the transfer to LTT is almost complete, and that it remains confident that the costs will come in within the revised estimate of between £1.75 million and £2 million. HMRC also confirmed that the costs for implementing Welsh rates of income tax remain also within the £7.5 million to £9.5 million range provided in October. The committee would like to receive an update on the final costs of turning off stamp duty land tax and of the implementation of Welsh rates of income tax once this information is known.
Now, as part of this inquiry, the committee invited the Secretary of State to provide evidence—as the committee did last year, of course—and we are very disappointed by the Secretary of State’s unwillingness to engage with us once again. Despite the introduction of Welsh rates, income tax remains a UK tax and HMRC is one of the UK Government departments, and that's the body that collects it. As such, evidence from the Secretary of State is essential, particularly given the failure to include 400,000 Scottish taxpayers in the new system. So, it's essential that the committee is able to establish that Wales’ interests are being adequately protected at the UK level.
The Secretary of State’s offer to meet committee members individually and in private was very frustrating, I have to say. The committee believes that public scrutiny should be undertaken on such constitutionally significant changes and a formal, public committee session would be much more appropriate, much more transparent, and, of course, of much greater value for all of us. This is especially true when it's so important to raise public awareness of these changes. Discussions in private, as the Secretary of State was proposing, contribute nothing to the public's engagement and understanding.
Devolution in Wales is a landscape that is constantly changing, and the committee is pleased that the latest leg of this devolution journey has been carried out in what appears to be a smooth and well-managed process. However, it's essential that we avoid complacency when it comes to informing the people of Wales of these new changes, and the committee intends to monitor this as well as the way in which the new taxes and the Welsh rates of income tax function in the coming months and years.
However, given that we have stated that it's important to recognise when things are done well, I want to commend everyone involved in the process thus far, including the various finance Ministers and officials, as well as the way in which the HMRC and Welsh Government departments have worked together.
Setting up new taxes, a new tax collection body, and making fundamental changes to the way in which taxes work in this country are significant events, and the work is progressing on time, within budget, and in a successful manner. I’d like to thank everyone, therefore, for their contributions to the committee’s inquiry, and I look forward to updating the Assembly in the coming years on this new era of Welsh fiscal devolution. Thank you.
'On time, within budget, and in a successful manner.'
It's not always that we hear those descriptions of projects. This was very—. I don't have much to add, actually, to what the Chair of the committee has said. This was a very interesting inquiry to be involved in. Can I also thank the witnesses who came before the inquiry? We've managed to deliver, I think, a very efficient and timely report that only has three recommendations, but they're three important recommendations. As I said earlier in the finance questions to the Minister, it's very easy at the moment to proclaim every day as momentous when it comes to fiscal devolution, because there's something happening every day. And I understand that 6 April is the actual deadline date that the Welsh rate of income tax will kick in. This is clearly the most important process that the Assembly has been through, if not since the advent of devolution, certainly since the advent of further powers back in 2011. Therefore, it's clearly important that we get it right, and I know that that was the intention of everyone on the committee.
I'm pleased that the Welsh Government has accepted the three recommendations—they're pretty straightforward. If I can just turn to recommendation 3 first, given some of the concerns of the FSB that I raised earlier regarding the lack of awareness of businesses about the devolution of stamp duty and landfill disposals tax, it's clearly important that people are aware that this month, on 6 April, there's income tax devolution and what it means for them. As the Chair said, it was concerning that some people thought they were going to be charged an extra 10p on top of the UK rate of income tax. I think that would cause a mass migration across the border within a few months. So, Welsh Government, and all of us, in fact, need to do what we can to make sure that people do fully understand this. But at the same time, this is a complex process, and for those people who aren't involved in the day-to-day running of taxation, then it's something that clearly needs to be set out.
Recommendation 2 relates to knowledge transfer within the Welsh Revenue Authority, and this is important if the organisation is not only to survive now, but to be strengthened in the future, as we'd all want to see. We need to recruit, develop and retain tax-specific skills—to quote the report—in Wales. Let's face it; we've never required this depth of capability here before. This is ground-breaking stuff in every sense. But we do need it now. And that doesn't just apply to the Welsh Revenue Authority; that also applies to the Welsh Government too. We don't just need to have the taxation knowledge; we need to have the economic knowledge and the tax forecasting and economic forecasting ability as well.
Chapter 5 of the report doesn't actually end in a recommendation, but chapter 5 covers new taxes. The previous Cabinet Secretary's intention to test the mechanism for developing a new tax—I assume that the current Minister has inherited that intention. Perhaps she can clarify that. I'm pleased that the Finance Committee looks set to be involved in the development of any new taxes, both the first one and any subsequent taxes. As with income tax, as I said before, it's clearly important that we get this process right, particularly as it's not been done before. Potentially, new taxes could have a rather fundamental effect on the economy now and in the future, going back to that forecasting mechanism I said the Welsh Government needs to develop.
Returning to the current implementation of the Welsh rate of income tax, we need to keep an eye on the anticipated transition costs. They're predicted to be £5 million to £10 million, significantly less than the £20 million to £25 million that was initially predicted for Scotland—or happened in Scotland, I should say. The reason, as stated in the report, is that the Assembly can piggyback on the system developed for Scotland. Now, let's hope that's the case. It probably will be, but at the same time, as we hear often in debates in this place, Wales and Scotland are not the same, and therefore there could be unexpected costs that we're not aware of at the moment. So, we do, as the Chair said, need to keep all of this under review, and the Welsh Government needs to make sure that the mechanism is in place so that if any of this does go awry, the Minister is aware of those problems at the earliest opportunity so that reassurances can be given to the public that taxation devolution is going ahead as it should be.
Very finally, Deputy Presiding Officer, border costs. Mike Hedges will probably mention these. If my former colleague the late Steffan Lewis were here, he would've mentioned it as well. He used to get very worked up on the committee when we endlessly talked about the border. He said that borders work elsewhere in the world and there's no reason they can't work here as well. He's probably right on that. But there will be a cost to issues such as the complex mapping of the Welsh border and that will need to be looked at. It's never been done before effectively, because it was never necessary, but now we're moving down this road, it needs to be done in the future. But I'm pleased to have been part of this debate.
'Ar amser, o fewn y gyllideb, ac mewn modd llwyddiannus.'
Nid ydym bob amser yn clywed y disgrifiadau hynny o brosiectau. Roedd hwn yn hynod o—. Nid oes gennyf lawer i'w ychwanegu, mewn gwirionedd, at yr hyn a ddywedodd Cadeirydd y pwyllgor. Roedd hwn yn ymchwiliad diddorol iawn i fod yn rhan ohono. A gaf fi ddiolch hefyd i'r tystion a ddaeth ger bron yr ymchwiliad? Rwy'n credu ein bod wedi llwyddo i gyflawni adroddiad amserol ac effeithlon iawn nad yw ond yn cynnwys tri argymhelliad, ond maent yn dri argymhelliad pwysig. Fel y dywedais yn gynharach mewn cwestiynau cyllid i'r Gweinidog, mae'n hawdd iawn datgan ar hyn o bryd fod pob dydd yn dyngedfennol mewn perthynas â datganoli ariannol, oherwydd mae rhywbeth yn digwydd bob dydd. Ac rwy'n deall mai 6 Ebrill yw'r dyddiad go iawn pan fydd y gyfradd Gymreig o dreth incwm yn dod yn weithredol. Mae'n amlwg mai dyma'r broses bwysicaf y bu'r Cynulliad drwyddi, os nad ers dyfodiad datganoli, yn sicr ers dyfodiad pwerau pellach yn ôl yn 2011. Felly, mae'n amlwg yn bwysig i ni ei gael yn iawn, a gwn mai dyna oedd bwriad pawb ar y pwyllgor.
Rwy'n falch fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn y tri argymhelliad—maent yn eithaf syml. Os gallaf droi at argymhelliad 3 yn gyntaf, o gofio rhai o bryderon y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach a godais yn gynharach ynghylch diffyg ymwybyddiaeth busnesau o ddatganoli'r dreth stamp a'r dreth gwarediadau tirlenwi, mae'n amlwg yn bwysig fod pobl yn ymwybodol o ddatganoli treth incwm y mis hwn, ar 6 Ebrill, a'r hyn y mae'n ei olygu iddynt hwy. Fel y dywedodd y Cadeirydd, roedd yn peri gofid fod rhai pobl yn meddwl y byddent yn gorfod talu 10c yn ychwanegol ar ben cyfradd y DU o dreth incwm. Credaf y byddai hynny'n achosi mudo torfol ar draws y ffin o fewn ychydig fisoedd. Felly, mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru, a phob un ohonom mewn gwirionedd, wneud yr hyn a allwn i sicrhau bod pobl yn deall hyn yn iawn. Ond ar yr un pryd, mae hon yn broses gymhleth, ac i'r bobl nad ydynt yn ymwneud â threfniadau trethu o ddydd i ddydd, mae'n amlwg yn rhywbeth sydd angen ei egluro.
Mae argymhelliad 2 yn ymwneud â throsglwyddo gwybodaeth o fewn Awdurdod Cyllid Cymru, ac mae hyn yn bwysig os yw'r sefydliad nid yn unig i oroesi yn awr, ond i'w gryfhau yn y dyfodol, fel y byddai pawb ohonom am ei weld. Mae angen inni recriwtio, datblygu a chadw sgiliau sy'n ymwneud yn benodol â'r dreth—i ddyfynnu o'r adroddiad—yng Nghymru. Gadewch inni ei wynebu; nid ydym wedi bod angen y dyfnder hwn o allu yma cyn hyn. Mae'n arloesol ym mhob ystyr. Ond mae angen inni ei wneud yn awr. Ac mae hynny'n berthnasol i fwy nag Awdurdod Cyllid Cymru; mae'n berthnasol hefyd i Lywodraeth Cymru. Mae angen inni gael mwy na gwybodaeth am drethiant; mae angen inni gael gwybodaeth economaidd a gallu i lunio rhagolygon treth a llunio rhagolygon economaidd yn ogystal.
Nid yw pennod 5 yr adroddiad yn dod i ben gydag argymhelliad mewn gwirionedd, mae pennod 5 yn trafod trethi newydd. Bwriad yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet blaenorol i roi prawf ar y mecanwaith ar gyfer datblygu treth newydd—rwy'n tybio bod y Gweinidog presennol wedi etifeddu'r bwriad hwnnw. Efallai y gall egluro hynny. Rwy'n falch fod y Pwyllgor Cyllid i'w weld yn barod i fod yn rhan o'r gwaith o ddatblygu unrhyw drethi newydd, yr un gyntaf ac unrhyw drethi sy'n dilyn. Fel gyda threth incwm, fel y dywedais yn gynharach, mae'n amlwg yn bwysig inni gael y broses hon yn iawn, yn enwedig gan nad yw wedi ei wneud o'r blaen. Gallai trethi newydd effeithio'n eithaf sylfaenol ar yr economi yn awr ac yn y dyfodol, i fynd yn ôl at y mecanwaith ar gyfer llunio rhagolygon y dywedais fod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru ei ddatblygu.
Gan ddychwelyd at weithrediad presennol y gyfradd dreth incwm yng Nghymru, mae angen inni gadw llygad ar y costau trawsnewid disgwyliedig. Rhagwelir y byddant yn £5 miliwn i £10 miliwn, gryn dipyn yn llai na'r £20 miliwn i £25 miliwn a ragwelwyd yn wreiddiol ar gyfer yr Alban—neu a ddigwyddodd yn yr Alban, dylwn ddweud. Y rheswm, fel y nodwyd yn yr adroddiad, yw y gall y Cynulliad ddefnyddio'r system a ddatblygwyd ar gyfer yr Alban. Nawr, gadewch i ni obeithio bod hynny'n wir. Mae'n debyg y bydd yn wir, ond ar yr un pryd, fel y clywn yn aml mewn dadleuon yn y lle hwn, nid yw Cymru a'r Alban yr un fath, ac felly gallai fod costau annisgwyl nad ydym yn ymwybodol ohonynt ar hyn o bryd. Felly, fel y dywedodd y Cadeirydd, mae angen i ni gadw hyn oll dan arolwg, ac mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru wneud yn siŵr fod y mecanwaith ar waith os aiff unrhyw elfen o hyn o chwith, fel bod y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol o'r problemau ar y cyfle cynharaf fel bod modd rhoi sicrwydd i'r cyhoedd fod datganoli trethi yn mynd rhagddo fel y dylai.
Yn olaf, Ddirprwy Lywydd, costau ffiniol. Mwy na thebyg y bydd Mike Hedges yn sôn am y rhain. Pe bai fy nghyn gyd-Aelod diweddar Steffan Lewis yma, byddai ef wedi sôn amdanynt yn ogystal. Arferai gynhyrfu ar y pwyllgor pan fyddem yn siarad yn ddiddiwedd am y ffin. Dywedai fod ffiniau'n gweithio mewn mannau eraill yn y byd ac nad oes unrhyw reswm na allant weithio yma yn ogystal. Mae'n debyg ei fod yn llygad ei le ar hynny. Ond bydd cost i faterion fel gwaith mapio cymhleth o ffin Cymru a bydd angen edrych ar hynny. Ni chafodd ei wneud yn effeithiol o'r blaen, oherwydd nad oedd yn angenrheidiol, ond gan ein bod bellach yn teithio ar hyd y ffordd hon, mae angen ei wneud yn y dyfodol. Ond rwy'n falch o fod wedi bod yn rhan o'r ddadl hon.
It's interesting to come to a report that could be best summed up as, 'Everything's gone well.' You can tell that by the number of people who are taking part in the debate and the number of people in here. If the statement had been that everything had gone badly, it would be a very lengthy debate, we'd be struggling to make it within the hour, and people would be queueing up for it.
If I can just answer Nick Ramsay's last point, we were told that the border was being sorted out by the land registry and they were going to actually work out exactly which properties were which side of the border, and we were then told it had been done. It might have been a meeting or part of a meeting you missed, but we have actually been told that it's now been done by the land registry. So, you can put somewhere in, and they can work out not only which country it's in, or nation it's in, but they can also say how much of it is in each, which solves what I always thought was a problem, and Steffan Lewis always said would be very easy to resolve—and he proved to be right.
We've had council tax and non-domestic rates devolved for some time. The Wales Act 2014 devolved certain taxes and borrowing powers to Wales, and enabled the Welsh Government to legislate in respect of stamp duty land tax and landfill tax. That also legislates for the partial devolution of income tax, the Welsh rate of income tax. Land transaction tax and landfill tax went live, as Llyr Gruffydd said, on 1 April 2018, and are administered by the Welsh Revenue Authority. We have now reached the end of the first year of devolved land transaction and landfill disposals taxes. I look forward to seeing the end-of-year outturns for these taxes, and ask that, at the very least, a written statement is provided to this Assembly saying exactly what they are.
The evidence provided to this committee suggests that the implementation of fiscal devolution to Wales has, so far, been largely successful. The committee recognises that it's still early days in the process, but believes the positive work that has been undertaken so far should be acknowledged. Landfill disposals tax raises very little money, and the amount raised is reducing year on year. The aim of the tax when it was first brought in was to affect behaviour rather than to raise money. It was brought in to increase the cost of landfill disposals, compared to recycling, and thus make it not cost-effective to continue to use landfill, and that's actually worked, because Wales is one of the best recycling nations in the world. But the aim—while it's nice to raise money, success for the landfill tax would be to raise no money at all, because nothing was being put into landfill. I think most people in this room would see that as a huge success.
Land transaction tax has the ability to vary enormously between years. Between 2007-08 and 2010-11, it was estimated to have dropped by half. It's the second most volatile tax. Capital gains tax is the most volatile tax, but it is second in terms of volatility. So, it's nice to have it; it's going to be great, year on year, when we either do very well, and the Government gets up and says, 'Look how well we've done with land transaction tax,' or it does very badly and the opposition get up and say, 'See, your land transaction tax hasn't worked.' The reality is that it's going to vary year on year. Outside of recession, it's remarkably stable, and slow, steady growth has been predicted by the OBR, but the OBR has always predicted slow, steady growth for everything. They don't believe we're ever going to have a recession I think they could well be wrong. There will be a recession at some time, and we'll have a substantial drop in this income.
We're going to enter the first year of partially devolved income tax. The Welsh Government can vary the rate of income tax, but has made a commitment not to increase it before the 2011 election. The Scotland Act 1998 transferred the power to legislate—[Interruption.] It's 2021, sorry. I was elected in 2011. Thank you. [Interruption.] It is—2021, sorry. The Scotland Act 1998 transferred the power to legislate for local taxation and also the power to vary income tax by plus or minus 3p in the pound. This was not used by Labour or the SNP-led Governments in Scotland, and I cannot foresee the income tax basic rate being varied in Wales. Increase it, and there will be voter backlash to paying more than England; decrease it, and there'll be even greater cuts in public services. You really are stuck with what it is. You have a power that is very difficult, if not impossible, to use.
One of the things I believe all of us in the Assembly should do, and I believe have a duty to do, is to explain, as Nick Ramsay did earlier, that it's not an additional tax. It's not another 10p; it is actually just a movement of part of the tax coming to the Welsh Government directly, rather than indirectly. Whilst it'll be reallocated to Wales, the tax collection will be exactly the same as it is now.
Finally, there's an opportunity to bring in new taxes. There is a proposal for a land value tax. Some other taxes have also been considered, including one on disposal of plastics. Will the finance Minister provide an update on progress made on bringing forward a land value tax? And will the finance Minister provide an update on progress made on bringing forward other new taxes? Because there are great opportunities in the taxation system to make it fairer.
Mae'n ddiddorol dod at adroddiad y gellid ei grynhoi orau drwy ddweud, 'Aeth popeth yn dda.' Gallwch ddweud hynny yn ôl nifer y bobl sy'n cymryd rhan yn y ddadl a nifer y bobl yma. Pe bai'r datganiad wedi dweud bod popeth wedi mynd yn wael, byddai'n ddadl hir iawn, a byddem yn ei chael hi'n anodd ei chwblhau o fewn yr awr, a byddai pobl yn ciwio i'w chlywed.
Os gallaf ateb pwynt olaf Nick Ramsay, dywedwyd wrthym fod mater y ffin yn cael ei ddatrys gan y gofrestrfa tir a'u bod yn mynd i weld yn union pa eiddo oedd ar ba ochr i'r ffin, a dywedwyd wrthym wedyn ei fod wedi'i wneud. Efallai ei fod yn gyfarfod neu'n rhan o gyfarfod nad oeddech yn bresennol ynddo, ond mewn gwirionedd dywedwyd wrthym ei fod wedi'i wneud bellach gan y gofrestrfa tir. Felly, gallwch roi rhywle i mewn, a gallant ddarganfod nid yn unig ym mha wlad y mae, neu ym mha genedl, ond gallant ddweud hefyd faint o'r eiddo sydd ym mhob gwlad, sy'n datrys yr hyn yr oeddwn bob amser yn meddwl ei bod yn broblem, a rhywbeth yr oedd Steffan Lewis bob amser yn dweud y byddai'n hawdd iawn ei ddatrys—ac roedd yn llygad ei le.
Rydym wedi cael y dreth gyngor ac ardrethi annomestig wedi'u datganoli ers peth amser. Roedd Deddf Cymru 2014 yn datganoli rhai trethi a phwerau benthyg i Gymru, ac yn galluogi Llywodraeth Cymru i ddeddfu mewn perthynas â threth dir y dreth stamp a'r dreth dirlenwi. Mae honno hefyd yn deddfu ar gyfer datganoli treth incwm yn rhannol, y gyfradd dreth incwm Gymreig. Aeth y dreth trafodiadau tir a'r dreth dirlenwi'n fyw, fel y dywedodd Llyr Gruffydd, ar 1 Ebrill 2018, a chânt eu gweinyddu gan Awdurdod Cyllid Cymru. Rydym bellach wedi cyrraedd diwedd y flwyddyn gyntaf o'r dreth trafodiadau tir a'r dreth gwarediadau tirlenwi datganoledig. Edrychaf ymlaen at weld alldro diwedd blwyddyn ar gyfer y trethi hyn, a gofyn, o leiaf, am gael datganiad ysgrifenedig wedi'i ddarparu ar gyfer y Cynulliad hwn yn dweud yn union beth ydynt.
Mae'r dystiolaeth a ddarparwyd i'r pwyllgor yn awgrymu bod gweithredu datganoli cyllidol i Gymru wedi llwyddo hyd yma i raddau helaeth. Mae'r pwyllgor yn cydnabod ei bod yn ddyddiau cynnar yn y broses o hyd, ond mae'n credu y dylid cydnabod y gwaith cadarnhaol sydd wedi'i wneud hyd yma. Ychydig iawn o arian y mae'r dreth gwarediadau tirlenwi yn ei godi, ac mae'r swm a godir yn lleihau o flwyddyn i flwyddyn. Nod y dreth pan gafodd ei sefydlu gyntaf oedd effeithio ar ymddygiad yn hytrach na chodi arian. Fe'i cyflwynwyd i gynyddu cost gwarediadau tirlenwi, o gymharu ag ailgylchu, gan olygu nad oedd parhau i ddefnyddio safleoedd tirlenwi yn gosteffeithiol, ac mae hynny wedi gweithio mewn gwirionedd, gan mai Cymru yw un o'r gwledydd ailgylchu gorau yn y byd. Ond y nod—er ei bod hi'n braf codi arian, llwyddiant ar gyfer y dreth tirlenwi fyddai peidio â chodi unrhyw arian o gwbl am nad oedd dim yn cael ei gludo i safleoedd tirlenwi. Credaf y byddai'r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn yr ystafell hon yn gweld hynny fel llwyddiant mawr.
Mae gallu gan y dreth trafodiadau tir i amrywio'n fawr iawn rhwng blynyddoedd. Rhwng 2007-08 a 2010-11, amcangyfrifwyd ei bod wedi gostwng i'r hanner. Dyma'r dreth fwyaf anwadal ond un. Y dreth enillion cyfalaf yw'r dreth fwyaf anwadal, ond mae hon yn ail o ran anwadalrwydd. Felly, mae'n braf ei chael; mae'n mynd i fod yn wych, o un flwyddyn i'r llall, pan fyddwn naill ai'n gwneud yn dda iawn, a bod y Llywodraeth yn codi ac yn dweud, 'Edrychwch pa mor dda rydym wedi'i wneud gyda'r dreth trafodiadau tir,' neu ei bod yn gwneud yn wael iawn a bod yr wrthblaid yn codi a dweud, 'Edrychwch, nid yw eich treth trafodiadau tir wedi gweithio.' Y realiti yw y bydd yn amrywio o flwyddyn i flwyddyn. Ar wahân i mewn dirwasgiad, mae'n hynod o sefydlog, a rhagwelwyd twf araf, cyson gan y swyddfa cyfrifoldeb cyllidebol, ond mae'r swyddfa cyfrifoldeb cyllidebol bob amser wedi rhag-weld twf araf, cyson ar gyfer popeth. Nid ydynt yn meddwl ein bod byth mynd i gael dirwasgiad, a chredaf y gallent yn hawdd fod yn anghywir. Fe fydd dirwasgiad ar ryw adeg, ac fe gawn ostyngiad sylweddol yn yr incwm hwn.
Rydym yn mynd i ddechrau ar y flwyddyn gyntaf o dreth incwm wedi'i datganoli'n rhannol. Gall Llywodraeth Cymru amrywio cyfradd y dreth incwm, ond mae wedi gwneud ymrwymiad i beidio â'i chynyddu cyn etholiad 2011. Trosglwyddodd Deddf yr Alban 1998 y pŵer i ddeddfu—[Torri ar draws.] Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, 2021. Cefais fy ethol yn 2011. Diolch. [Torri ar draws.] Mae'n—2021, mae'n ddrwg gennyf. Trosglwyddodd Deddf yr Alban 1998 y pŵer i ddeddfu ar gyfer trethiant lleol a hefyd y pŵer i amrywio treth incwm 3c yn y bunt yn uwch neu'n is. Ni chafodd ei ddefnyddio gan lywodraethau a arweiniwyd gan Lafur na chan yr SNP yn yr Alban, ac ni allaf ragweld cyfradd sylfaenol y dreth incwm yn cael ei hamrywio yng Nghymru. Os cynyddwch y gyfradd, bydd y pleidleiswyr yn taro'n ôl yn erbyn talu mwy na Lloegr; os gostyngwch y gyfradd, bydd hyd yn oed rhagor o doriadau mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Rydych yn gaeth i'r hyn ydyw. Mae gennych bŵer sy'n anodd iawn, os nad yn amhosibl, ei ddefnyddio.
Un o'r pethau y credaf y dylai pob un ohonom yn y Cynulliad ei wneud, a chredaf ei bod yn ddyletswydd arnom ei wneud, yw esbonio, fel y gwnaeth Nick Ramsay yn gynharach, nad yw'n dreth ychwanegol. Nid yw'n 10c arall; yr hyn ydyw mewn gwirionedd yw symud rhan o'r dreth fel ei bod yn dod i Lywodraeth Cymru yn uniongyrchol yn hytrach na'n anuniongyrchol. Er y caiff ei hailddyrannu i Gymru, bydd y dreth a gesglir yr un fath yn union â'r hyn ydyw yn awr.
Yn olaf, ceir cyfle i gyflwyno trethi newydd. Ceir cynnig ar gyfer treth ar werth tir. Mae trethi eraill wedi'u hystyried hefyd, gan gynnwys un ar waredu plastigion. A wnaiff y Gweinidog cyllid roi diweddariad ar y cynnydd a wnaed ar gyflwyno treth ar werth tir? Ac a wnaiff y Gweinidog cyllid ddarparu diweddariad ar y cynnydd a wnaed ar gyflwyno trethi newydd eraill? Oherwydd ceir cyfleoedd mawr yn y system drethu i'w gwneud yn decach.
Gaf i ddiolch i dîm clercio'r Pwyllgor Cyllid ac i'r Cadeirydd, Llyr Gruffydd, am eu gwaith yn tynnu'r adroddiad yma at ei gilydd? Mae hwn yn faes sydd yn newydd i ni fel pwyllgor, wrth gwrs, yn ogystal â bod yn newydd i ni fel Senedd ac fel cenedl. Dŷn ni wedi bod yn mynd ati i ddysgu ac i drio datblygu ein harbenigedd ein hunain, wrth gwrs, wrth ymdrin â materion trethiannol ac wrth baratoi i roi datganoli cyllidol ar waith yma yng Nghymru. Felly, dim ond ychydig o sylwadau sydd gen i wrth gymeradwyo'r argymhellion a'r casgliadau yn yr adroddiad yma i chi, a dwi'n sicr yn edrych ymlaen at weld ein pwerau trethiant diweddaraf ni yn dod yn fyw ymhen ychydig o ddyddiau. Wrth gwrs, mi ydyn ni'n cael y drafodaeth ar yr adroddiad yma yn gynharach na'r arfer oherwydd yr amserlen honno, a dwi'n ddiolchgar i'm cyd-Aelodau ar Bwyllgor Busnes y Cynulliad am ganiatáu i'r ddadl yma allu cael ei chynnal heddiw.
Mi wnaf i ddelio efo'r ddau gasgliad yn yr adroddiad yn y drefn anghywir. Casgliad 2—y ffaith bod y pwyllgor yn cydnabod y gwaith da sydd wedi cael ei wneud i sefydlu Awdurdod Cyllid Cymru o'r newydd, a nhwythau'n delio â threth trafodiadau tir a threth gwarediadau tirlenwi, sydd yn flwydd oed rŵan. Fel y clywsom ni gan y Cadeirydd, mi grëwyd argraff gref iawn arnom ni gan y tîm hynod o broffesiynol a hynod o gyffrous, dwi'n meddwl, sydd wedi sefydlu'r awdurdod newydd hwnnw. Wrth gwrs, yn edrych ar argymhelliad 1, sy'n ymwneud â chynllunio gweithlu, dwi'n meddwl wrth osod y bar mor uchel o ran beth sydd wedi cael ei wneud o fewn yr awdurdod cyllidol yn y flwyddyn gyntaf, yr her fydd i gynnal y safon honno. Mi ddaeth hi'n amlwg i ni fel pwyllgor bod proffesiynoldeb a phrofiad y gweithlu a'r unigolion sy'n gyrru'r gwaith hynny yn ei flaen yn gwbl hanfodol, ac mi fyddwn ni'n edrych ymlaen am ddiweddariadau blynyddol ynglŷn â sut mae'r safon yna yn cael ei gynnal.
Yn symud yn ôl, wedyn, at gasgliad 1, mi hoffwn innau ategu'r casgliad hwnnw sy'n dweud bod y pwyllgor yn siomedig iawn ynghylch diffyg ymgysylltiad yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol ar ddatganoli cyllidol yng Nghymru. Dwi'n digwydd credu bod agwedd Ysgrifennydd Cymru tuag atom ni fel sefydliad yn hyn o beth yn gywilyddus. Mae copi yn fan hyn o'r llythyr gen i gan yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol at Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cyllid, lle mae o'n sôn am fod yn atebol i'r Senedd yn San Steffan ac nid i'r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol. Wel, mae Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn gorff democrataidd sy'n cynrychioli buddiannau pobl Cymru. Os ydy'r Cynulliad hwn a'i bwyllgorau yn ei gweld hi'n iawn i ddal pwy bynnag i gyfrif, ein cyfrifoldeb ni ydy gwneud hynny, ac nid dewis Alun Cairns nac unrhyw Weinidog gwladol arall ydy gosod ei hun uwchlaw atebolrwydd i bobl Cymru. Allaf i ddim gwneud y pwynt hwnnw yn gryfach.
Mae o'n fodlon, meddai fo, siarad ag unigolion, fel Aelodau Cynulliad, am y peth. Mae o'n fodlon siarad a rhoi tystiolaeth i bwyllgor dethol materion Cymreig San Steffan am y peth. Hynny ydy, mae o'n barod i ymwneud â'r mater ac i ateb cwestiynau, ond yr unig gasgliad allaf i ddod iddo fo ydy ei fod o'n ddirmygus tuag at y sefydliad hwn. Dwi'n synnu i weld o yn ceisio gosod muriau rhwng prosesau trethiannol Cymreig newydd a'r drefn drethiannol sy'n dal yn cael ei rhedeg yn ganolog ar lefel Brydeinig. Mae yna ryngweithio rhwng prosesau yng Nghymru a phrosesau yn San Steffan, ac mae'n gwbl allweddol ein bod ni'n gallu gofyn cwestiynau i gynrychiolydd Cymru yn San Steffan a'i fod yntau yn clywed yn uniongyrchol gennym ni, fel Senedd ddemocrataidd i Gymru, beth yn union ydy ein pryderon ni a'r math o sicrwydd dŷn ni angen ar ystod o faterion yn ymwneud â phwerau trethiant.
Yn symud ymlaen yn sydyn iawn, dwi'n bryderus ynglŷn â'r diffyg dealltwriaeth gan bobl o gyfraddau treth Cymru sy'n dod i mewn y penwythnos yma. Mae yna gwestiynau i'w gofyn ynglŷn â sut i godi ymwybyddiaeth wrth inni symud ymlaen.
Gwnaf ddweud i gloi, i ymateb i sylwadau Mike Hedges ynglŷn â beth sy'n debyg o ddigwydd i gyfraddau treth yng Nghymru, a pha mor anodd, o bosib, allai hi fod yn wleidyddol i wneud penderfyniad i godi neu ostwng trethi, mae yna werth i gael dim ond y datganoli, oherwydd mae'n rhoi pwysau ar lywodraeth i weithredu mewn ffordd efo mwy o ffocws ar eu gwaith nhw. Ond dwi yn edrych ymlaen mewn blynyddoedd i ddod i'n gweld ni yn datblygu ffordd Gymreig o ymdrin â threthiant. Mi ddaw yna ragor o bwerau trethiant, ac mi fydd yna bethau sy'n gallu cael eu gwneud i gyfraddau treth incwm drwy newid trethiannau eraill. Ond materion ar gyfer y dyfodol ydy hynny. Dŷn ni ar ddechrau'r daith a dwi'n falch o gael y gymeradwyaeth oddi ar ffôn rhywun yn y cefn yn fan hyn, ond dwi'n falch o allu cymeradwyo'r adroddiad hwn i'r Cynulliad.
May I thank the Finance Committee’s clerking team and the Chair, Llyr Gruffydd, for their work in drawing this report together? This is an area that is new to us as a committee, of course, as well as being new to us as a Senedd and as a nation. We have been learning and developing our own expertise, as we have dealt with these taxation issues and in preparing to implement fiscal devolution in Wales. So, I have just a few comments in recommending the conclusions and recommendations made in this report, and I look forward to seeing our latest taxation powers coming into force in just a few days’ time. Of course, we are having this debate on the report earlier than normal because of that particular timetable, and I’m grateful to my fellow Members of the Assembly’s Business Committee for allowing this debate to be staged today.
I will deal with the two conclusions of the report in the wrong order, if you like. Conclusion 2—the fact the committee recognises the work undertaken in establishing the Welsh Revenue Authority anew, and they, of course, are dealing with the implementation of the land transaction tax and the landfill disposals tax, which are 12 months old now. As we heard from the Chair, the team is exceptionally professional and exceptionally exciting at the WRA and they made quite an impression on us when we visited. Of course, in looking at recommendation 1, which deals with workforce planning, I think in setting the bar so high in terms of what’s been done within the WRA in that first year, the challenge will be to maintain that standard. It became clear to us as a committee that the professionalism and experience of the workforce and the individuals driving that workforce was crucially important, and we will look forward to annual updates as to how that standard is being maintained.
In returning, then, to conclusion 1, I would like to echo what’s said there, namely that the committee is deeply disappointed in the Secretary of State’s lack of engagement on the constitutional impact of fiscal devolution in Wales. I tend to feel that the attitude of the Secretary of State towards us as an institution is disgraceful. There’s a copy here of the letter sent by the Secretary of State to the Chair of the Finance Committee, where he mentions being accountable to Parliament in Westminster and not to the National Assembly. Well, the National Assembly for Wales is a democratically elected body representing the interests of the people of Wales. If this Assembly and its committee see fit to hold anyone to account, it is our responsibility to do that, and it’s not for Alun Cairns or any other Minister of the state to set himself above accountability to the people of Wales. I can't make that point any stronger.
He is willing, apparently, to speak to individuals as Assembly Members about this issue. He is willing to provide evidence to the Welsh Affairs Select Committee in Westminster on the issue. So, he’s willing to engage with the issue and to answer questions, but the only conclusion that I can draw is that he is insulting in his attitude towards this organisation. I'm surprised to see him try to place walls between the Welsh taxation regime and the taxation regime that is still being run centrally at a UK level. There is interaction between processes in Wales and processes in Westminster, and it is entirely crucial that we can ask questions of Wales’s representative in Westminster and that he hears directly from us, as a democratically elected body here in Wales, exactly what our concerns are and the kind of assurances that we're seeking on a range of issues relating to taxation powers.
Moving on very briefly, I'm very concerned about the lack of understanding that people have of Welsh rates of income tax as they're being introduced this weekend. There are questions to be asked as to how we can raise awareness as we move forward.
I will say in conclusion, to respond to comments by Mike Hedges as to what is likely to happen to Welsh rates of income tax, and how difficult it could be politically to make a decision to increase or reduce taxes, there is value in simply having that devolution, because it puts pressure on government to work with more focus. But I do look forward in years to come to see us developing a Welsh approach to dealing with taxation. There will be further taxation powers devolved, and things will be doable in terms of income tax rates through making changes to other taxes. But those are issues for the future. We're at the beginning of the journey and I am pleased to receive applause from someone's telephone at the back here, but I'm also pleased to recommend this report to the Assembly.
Like other Members this afternoon, I very much welcome the process we've been following over the last few years. It certainly has been a journey that this place has been on, from the founding of an Assembly in 1999 to becoming a Parliament that raises taxes in 2019. I very much welcome the fact that we have seen the devolution of these powers now. I was never one of these people who believed that we required a referendum to do that, and I was certainly very pleased that we have been able to move forward with this accountability and proper form of governance in Wales.
I'd like, with your permission, Deputy Presiding Officer, to make three substantive points this afternoon. The first is, like others this afternoon, to congratulate officials and staff of the various organisations who have worked together to ensure that this has been a smooth transfer over the last few years. Sometimes the whole process of devolution can be something like pulling teeth, and can be an extraordinarily difficult task. Certainly when I've spoken to UK Ministers about the devolution of additional powers, they've made it appear to be some Herculean task that is virtually impossible to achieve within a century. So the devolution of these responsibilities on taxation has moved relatively quickly and very smoothly, and I hope that will be a lesson for the future, but we certainly need to congratulate the staff and officials who have done so.
The second point I'd wish to make is that made by the Member for Anglesey in his contribution. The report makes a point of the committee's disappointment with the decisions and actions of the Secretary of State. It is my clear view, and my experience as a Minister in this place tells me, that there is no role for the Wales Office in today's United Kingdom. As a Minister I cannot think of a single occasion when the Wales Office has been an aid to me or has enabled the proper discharge of governance. What has always worked on every occasion is the direct inter-governmental relationship between Welsh and UK Ministers. I can think of not a single occasion when the Wales Office has helped the governance of this country, and the resignation today of somebody we've never heard of, who barely visited this country and performed absolutely no duty that anybody's been able to identify, demonstrates that that office has outlived its usefulness. The inability of the Secretary of State to travel to Cardiff to give evidence and to be scrutinised, which I think is what he's really trying to avoid, is more evidence, if it's needed, that it is time to move forward to proper UK structures and proper structures of governance that are not owned by the UK Government, but are shared between the Governments of the UK. I hope that we'll be able to do that in due course.
The third point I'd like to make is that this process has moved relatively smoothly, but to what purpose? To what purpose? Is the purpose simply to hold us to account for taking the same decisions as are taken by the Treasury? Or is the purpose for us to do something different, to reflect our own values and our own beliefs? I see there are three Ministers on the front bench—health, education and finance—and I'm lucky to have worked with all three of them at different times, and all three of them—[Interruption.] Okay, let's not go there now. But all three of them will remember the conversations we've had over cash, over spending, and the very difficult decisions that we've had to take over recent years. I do not believe that austerity is a correct policy choice, and I do not believe that austerity has succeeded in its stated objectives. But then neither do the Tories anymore.
So, what do we do? Do we simply continue to tax at current levels or do we actually say, 'We believe in public services. We want to protect public services. We want to invest in public services. We want to invest in the people of this country, the communities of this country and the services of country and this country's future'? And in that case, we have to have the courage to argue for taxation as well. Fair taxation that will enable us to provide the services that we require and the services that the people of Wales want. We cannot stand here making speeches about austerity and then deliver austerity through our decisions. We cannot have our cake and eat it. We've been telling UK Ministers that through Brexit and we have to accept that ourselves. If you believe in public services, then you must also argue for the taxation to pay for them. But also, let us tax in a way that reflects our values. I spent some years persuading previous finance Ministers, when they were publishing their Treasury papers, that our values should come through, should shine through our taxation policy as well. I failed to persuade any finance Minister of the importance of sustainability as a principle of taxation—I hope I'll have more luck with the current finance Minister, but I failed to persuade her predecessors—because I think it is important.
But it is important also that we recognise a declining tax base. We discussed in questions earlier the potential impact of Brexit. We talk here about Brexit as being a national disaster for this country, but it is also a disaster for our services and our ability to deliver public services. It's easy enough to say that we will not see the dividend that we were promised on the side of a bus for the national health service, but we're going to have to pay for that. And if that is the case, what does that do to our taxation policy?
I can see that I've tried your patience long enough, Deputy Presiding Officer. But I hope that we will have a debate about the nature of taxation in the future that will reflect our values, and which also will reflect our ambitions.
Fel Aelodau eraill y prynhawn yma, rwy'n croesawu'n fawr y broses y buom yn ei dilyn dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Yn sicr mae'r lle hwn wedi bod ar daith ers sefydlu Cynulliad yn 1999 i fod yn Senedd sy'n codi trethi yn 2019. Rwy'n croesawu'n fawr y ffaith ein bod wedi gweld datganoli'r pwerau hyn bellach. Ni fûm erioed yn un o'r bobl a gredai fod arnom angen refferendwm i wneud hynny, ac roeddwn yn sicr yn falch iawn ein bod wedi gallu symud ymlaen â'r atebolrwydd hwn a ffurf briodol o lywodraethiant yng Nghymru.
Gyda'ch caniatâd chi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, hoffwn wneud tri phrif bwynt y prynhawn yma. Y cyntaf yw, fel eraill y prynhawn yma, hoffwn longyfarch swyddogion a staff y sefydliadau amrywiol sydd wedi gweithio gyda'i gilydd i sicrhau bod trosglwyddo esmwyth yn digwydd dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf. Weithiau gall holl broses datganoli deimlo'n debyg i dynnu dannedd, a gall fod yn dasg eithriadol o anodd. Yn sicr pan wyf wedi siarad â Gweinidogion y DU ynghylch datganoli pwerau ychwanegol, maent wedi gwneud iddo ymddangos fel tasg anferthol sydd bron yn amhosibl ei chyflawni o fewn canrif. Felly mae datganoli'r cyfrifoldebau hyn ar drethiant wedi symud yn gymharol gyflym ac yn esmwyth iawn, a gobeithiaf y bydd honno'n wers ar gyfer y dyfodol, ond yn sicr mae angen inni longyfarch y staff a'r swyddogion sydd wedi gwneud hynny.
Yr ail bwynt yr hoffwn ei wneud yw'r un a wnaed gan yr Aelod dros Ynys Môn yn ei gyfraniad. Mae'r adroddiad yn gwneud pwynt o siom y pwyllgor ynghylch penderfyniadau a chamau gweithredu'r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol. Mae fy marn glir a fy mhrofiad fel Gweinidog yn y lle hwn yn dweud wrthyf nad oes unrhyw rôl i Swyddfa Cymru yn y Deyrnas Unedig heddiw. Fel Gweinidog ni allaf feddwl am un achlysur pan fo Swyddfa Cymru wedi bod o gymorth i mi neu wedi ein galluogi i lywodraethu'n briodol. Yr hyn sydd bob amser wedi gweithio ar bob achlysur yw'r berthynas rynglywodraethol uniongyrchol rhwng Gweinidogion Cymru a Gweinidogion y DU. Ni allaf feddwl am unrhyw achlysur pan fo Swyddfa Cymru wedi helpu llywodraethiant y wlad hon, ac mae ymddiswyddiad rhywun nad ydym erioed wedi clywed amdano heddiw, rhywun a oedd prin wedi ymweld â'r wlad hon ac na chyflawnodd unrhyw ddyletswydd o fath yn y byd y gallodd neb ei chanfod, yn dangos bod defnyddioldeb y swyddfa honno wedi dod i ben. Mae anallu'r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol i deithio i Gaerdydd i roi tystiolaeth ac i gael ei graffu, sef yr hyn y credaf y mae'n ceisio ei osgoi mewn gwirionedd, yn dystiolaeth bellach, os oes ei hangen, ei bod yn bryd symud ymlaen at strwythurau priodol yn y DU a strwythurau llywodraethu priodol nad ydynt yn eiddo i Lywodraeth y DU, ond sy'n cael eu rhannu rhwng Llywodraethau'r DU. Gobeithiaf y gallwn wneud hynny maes o law.
Y trydydd pwynt yr hoffwn ei wneud yw bod y broses hon wedi symud yn gymharol ddidrafferth, ond i ba bwrpas? I ba ddiben? Ai'r diben yn syml yw ein dwyn i gyfrif am wneud yr un penderfyniadau ag y mae'r Trysorlys yn eu gwneud? Neu ai'r diben yw inni wneud rhywbeth gwahanol, adlewyrchu ein gwerthoedd a'n credoau ein hunain? Gwelaf fod tri Gweinidog ar y fainc flaen—iechyd, addysg a chyllid—ac rwy'n ffodus o fod wedi gweithio gyda'r tri ohonynt ar wahanol adegau, ac mae'r tri ohonynt—[Torri ar draws.] Iawn, gadewch i ni beidio â mynd yno nawr. Ond bydd y tri ohonynt yn cofio'r sgyrsiau a gawsom ynghylch arian parod, ynghylch gwariant, a'r penderfyniadau anodd iawn y bu'n rhaid inni eu gwneud dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Nid wyf yn credu bod cyni yn ddewis polisi cywir, ac nid wyf yn credu bod y polisi cyni wedi llwyddo yn ei amcanion datganedig. Ond wedyn, nid yw'r Torïaid yn credu hynny mwyach ychwaith.
Felly, beth a wnawn? A ydym yn parhau i drethu ar y lefelau presennol neu a ydym yn dweud, 'Rydym yn credu mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Rydym am warchod gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Rydym am fuddsoddi mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Rydym am fuddsoddi ym mhobl y wlad hon, cymunedau'r wlad hon a gwasanaethau'r wlad a dyfodol y wlad hon'? Ac os felly, rhaid inni fod yn ddigon dewr i ddadlau dros drethiant yn ogystal. Trethiant teg a fydd yn ein galluogi i ddarparu'r gwasanaethau sydd eu hangen arnom a'r gwasanaethau y mae pobl Cymru eu heisiau. Ni allwn sefyll yma'n gwneud areithiau am gyni a darparu cyni drwy ein penderfyniadau. Ni allwn gael ein cacen a'i bwyta. Rydym wedi bod yn dweud hynny wrth Weinidogion y DU drwy Brexit a rhaid inni dderbyn hynny ein hunain. Os ydych yn credu mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, rhaid i chi hefyd ddadlau o blaid trethiant i dalu amdanynt. Ond hefyd, gadewch inni drethu mewn ffordd sy'n adlewyrchu ein gwerthoedd. Treuliais rai blynyddoedd yn perswadio Gweinidogion cyllid blaenorol, pan oeddent yn cyhoeddi eu papurau Trysorlys, y dylai ein gwerthoedd ddod drwodd, dylent ddisgleirio drwy ein polisi trethiant yn ogystal. Methais ddarbwyllo unrhyw Weinidog cyllid ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd cynaliadwyedd fel egwyddor trethiant—gobeithio y caf well lwc gyda'r Gweinidog cyllid presennol, ond methais berswadio ei rhagflaenwyr—oherwydd credaf ei fod yn bwysig.
Ond mae'n bwysig hefyd ein bod yn cydnabod sylfaen drethi sy'n lleihau. Trafodasom effaith bosibl Brexit yn ystod y cwestiynau yn gynharach. Rydym yn sôn yma am Brexit fel trychineb cenedlaethol i'r wlad hon, ond mae'n drychineb hefyd i'n gwasanaethau a'n gallu i ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Mae'n ddigon hawdd dweud na welwn y difidend a addawyd inni ar ochr bws ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, ond rydym yn mynd i orfod talu am hynny. Ac os yw hynny'n wir, beth y mae hynny'n ei wneud i'n polisi trethiant?
Gallaf weld fy mod wedi profi eich amynedd yn ddigon hir, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Ond gobeithio y cawn ddadl am natur trethiant yn y dyfodol a fydd yn adlewyrchu ein gwerthoedd, ac a fydd hefyd yn adlewyrchu ein dyheadau.
Thank you. Can I now call the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd, Rebecca Evans?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar y Gweinidog Cyllid a'r Trefnydd, Rebecca Evans?
Thank you. I very much welcome today's debate, and I'd like to put on record my thanks to the Finance Committee for their report and for providing us with the opportunity to have this discussion today, and for the very constructive way in which the committee has engaged with this agenda throughout. I'll be responding formally to the committee's report, but I can say today that I'm pleased the committee has recognised in their report the good work undertaken in establishing the Welsh Revenue Authority. This good work has continued into operations, and the WRA's approach to tax administration has been acknowledged in the recent report by the FSB, 'Funding Prosperity: Creating a New Tax System in Wales', which, again, we discussed earlier on today.
I note the committee's recommendation that annual updates should be provided on the WRA's approach to retention of knowledge and expertise in the organisation. Work is already under way in this area, including the development of induction plans, business continuity plans, detailed guidance, and a formal knowledge-capture process for those leaving the organisation.
I'd be happy to provide an update to committee on the implementation and ongoing running costs of Welsh rates of income tax. Ensuring value for money for Welsh taxpayers remains a priority of the Welsh Government, and my officials will continue to scrutinise costs associated with implementing the new arrangements, and I'm grateful to Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, which has shown a commitment to keeping costs to an absolute minimum.
My officials have been working closely with their counterparts in HMRC to ensure that communication and engagement activity is joined up. Evaluation has been taking place throughout the campaign to help adjust and refine our approach as necessary. And a more formal evaluation using the Government Communication Service evaluation framework will take place shortly.
I note the committee's disappointment that the Secretary of State for Wales has been unable or unwilling to engage with the committee in considering the introduction of the partial devolution of income tax in Wales. I agree with the committee's conclusion that as income tax remains a reserved tax, it would be appropriate for the Secretary of State to answer questions on the implementation process. And I would just comment that I was very pleased to provide evidence to the Welsh Affairs Select Committee on the devolution of air passenger duty very recently.
The introduction of Welsh rates of income tax this Saturday will mark the completion of the programme of work—the programme of fiscal devolution brought about by the Wales Act 2014. It will follow the successful implementation of made-in-Wales taxes a year ago—land transaction tax and landfill disposals tax, collected by the Welsh Revenue Authority—and our acquisition of new capital and revenue borrowing powers. We are also drawing on the 2014 Act to explore potential new taxes and the ways in which they could support our wider policy ambitions.
Of course, this work began well before 2014 with the reports by the Holtham commission and the Silk commission, which recommended that the Welsh Government and National Assembly should gain significantly greater abilities and responsibilities to manage the Welsh budget. Alongside our tax powers, we have gained financial responsibility for non-domestic rates, and there have been essential changes to our block grant to provide a Barnett floor and to ensure appropriate adjustments for the devolved tax revenue.
The devolution of tax powers provides the Welsh Government with a range of opportunities to develop a progressive approach to taxation, which is better tailored to Wales's needs. The tax policy framework, published in 2017 by the then Cabinet Secretary for finance, and the annual work plans published since have emphasised this Government's commitment to take a strategic approach to tax policy. This is now being delivered through our work to manage existing and newly devolved taxes, as well as our evolving approach to develop new taxes.
The tax policy work plan I published on 27 February fulfills the commitment given in the tax policy framework to ensure that tax-related proposals are considered robustly and in alignment with Cabinet's principles. It is in line with the principle to develop tax policy through collaboration and involvement, providing a vehicle for more open discussion with stakeholders about the direction of Welsh tax policy. The research areas in the work plan support the commitment in the national strategy to use tax powers to strengthen the link between economic growth and funding for public services, and to do so in a way that supports business and is fair.
Together with the block grant, Welsh taxes will fund the vital public services on which many people in society depend. When Welsh rates of income tax are introduced, the decisions about some £5 billion of tax revenue collected in Wales will be made in Wales by central or local government. With the powers devolved to Wales, we have the opportunity to look at taxes collectively. This will change the nature of our debates about revenues and budgets in the future, and I look forward to these discussions.
I'm happy to support this motion this afternoon and I'd like to thank all Members who have contributed to the debate and to join them and echo the complimentary comments that they've made about the officials who have worked on this project. Thank you.
Diolch. Rwy'n croesawu'r ddadl heddiw yn fawr iawn, a hoffwn gofnodi fy niolch i'r Pwyllgor Cyllid am eu hadroddiad ac am ddarparu cyfle inni gael y drafodaeth hon heddiw, ac am y ffordd adeiladol iawn y mae'r pwyllgor wedi ymgysylltu â'r agenda hon drwyddi draw. Byddaf yn ymateb yn ffurfiol i adroddiad y pwyllgor, ond gallaf ddweud heddiw fy mod yn falch fod y pwyllgor wedi cydnabod y gwaith da a wnaed ar sefydlu Awdurdod Cyllid Cymru yn eu hadroddiad. Mae'r gwaith da hwn wedi parhau yn ei weithrediadau, a chafodd dull yr awdurdod o weinyddu treth ei gydnabod yn yr adroddiad diweddar gan y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach, 'Funding Prosperity: Creating a New Tax System in Wales,' a drafodwyd gennym yn gynharach heddiw.
Nodaf argymhelliad y pwyllgor y dylid darparu diweddariadau blynyddol ar ddull yr awdurdod o gadw gwybodaeth ac arbenigedd yn y sefydliad. Mae gwaith eisoes ar y gweill yn y maes hwn, gan gynnwys datblygu cynlluniau ymsefydlu, cynlluniau parhad busnes, canllawiau manwl a phroses gipio gwybodaeth ffurfiol ar gyfer y rhai sy'n gadael y sefydliad.
Buaswn yn hapus i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r pwyllgor ar gostau gweithredu a chostau rhedeg parhaus cyfraddau Cymreig o dreth incwm. Mae sicrhau gwerth am arian i drethdalwyr Cymru yn parhau'n flaenoriaeth i Lywodraeth Cymru, a bydd fy swyddogion yn parhau i graffu ar y costau sy'n gysylltiedig â gweithredu'r trefniadau newydd, ac rwy'n ddiolchgar i Gyllid a Thollau ei Mawrhydi, sydd wedi dangos ymrwymiad i gadw costau cyn lleied â phosibl.
Mae fy swyddogion wedi bod yn cydweithio'n agos â'u cymheiriaid o fewn CThEM i sicrhau bod cyfathrebu a gweithgarwch ymgysylltu yn gydgysylltiedig. Mae gwerthuso wedi bod yn digwydd drwy gydol yr ymgyrch i helpu i addasu a mireinio ein dull gweithredu yn ôl yr angen. A chynhelir gwerthusiad mwy ffurfiol gan ddefnyddio fframwaith gwerthuso Gwasanaeth Cyfathrebu'r Llywodraeth cyn bo hir.
Nodaf siom y pwyllgor na allodd Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ymwneud â'r pwyllgor, neu ei amharodrwydd i wneud hynny, ar gyfer ystyried y modd o ddatganoli'r dreth incwm yn rhannol yng Nghymru. Rwy'n cytuno â chasgliad y pwyllgor, gan fod y dreth incwm yn parhau i fod yn dreth a gadwyd yn ôl, y byddai'n briodol i'r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol ateb cwestiynau am y broses weithredu. A hoffwn nodi fy mod yn falch iawn o roi tystiolaeth i'r Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig ar ddatganoli toll teithwyr awyr yn ddiweddar iawn.
Bydd cyflwyno cyfraddau treth incwm Cymreig ddydd Sadwrn yn nodi cwblhau'r rhaglen waith—y rhaglen o ddatganoli cyllidol a roddwyd ar waith gan Ddeddf Cymru 2014. Bydd yn dilyn llwyddiant y camau i roi trethi a wnaed yng Nghymru mewn grym flwyddyn yn ôl—y dreth trafodiadau tir a'r dreth gwarediadau tirlenwi, a gesglir gan Awdurdod Cyllid Cymru—a chaffael pwerau benthyca cyfalaf a refeniw newydd. Rydym hefyd yn pwyso ar Ddeddf 2014 i archwilio trethi newydd posibl a'r ffyrdd y gallent gynnal ein dyheadau polisi ehangach.
Wrth gwrs, dechreuodd y gwaith hwn ymhell cyn 2014 gyda'r adroddiadau gan gomisiwn Holtham a chomisiwn Silk, a argymhellodd y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru a'r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ennill llawer mwy o allu a chyfrifoldebau i reoli cyllideb Cymru. Ochr yn ochr â'n pwerau treth, rydym wedi mabwysiadu cyfrifoldeb ariannol dros ardrethi annomestig, a bu newidiadau hanfodol i'n grant bloc i ddarparu cyllid gwaelodol Barnett ac i sicrhau addasiadau priodol ar gyfer y refeniw treth datganoledig.
Rhydd datganoli pwerau treth amrywiaeth o gyfleoedd i Lywodraeth Cymru ddatblygu dull blaengar o drethu wedi'i deilwra'n well i anghenion Cymru. Mae'r fframwaith polisi treth, a gyhoeddwyd yn 2017 gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros gyllid ar y pryd, a'r cynlluniau gwaith blynyddol a gyhoeddwyd ers hynny, wedi pwysleisio ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth hon i fabwysiadu dull strategol o weithredu polisi treth. Caiff hwn ei gyflawni yn awr drwy ein gwaith i reoli trethi presennol a threthi sydd wedi'u datganoli o'r newydd, yn ogystal â'n dull sy'n esblygu o ddatblygu trethi newydd.
Mae cynllun gwaith y polisi treth a gyhoeddais ar 27 Chwefror yn cyflawni'r ymrwymiad a roddwyd yn y fframwaith polisi treth i sicrhau bod cynigion sy'n gysylltiedig â threthi yn cael eu hystyried yn drwyadl ac yn gyson ag egwyddorion y Cabinet. Mae'n cydymffurfio â'r egwyddor i ddatblygu polisi treth drwy gydweithrediad a chyfranogiad, gan ddarparu cyfrwng ar gyfer trafodaeth fwy agored â rhanddeiliaid ynghylch cyfeiriad polisi treth Cymru. Mae'r meysydd ymchwil yn y cynllun gwaith yn cefnogi'r ymrwymiad yn y strategaeth genedlaethol i ddefnyddio pwerau treth i gryfhau'r cysylltiad rhwng twf economaidd a chyllid ar gyfer gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, ac i wneud hynny mewn ffordd sy'n cefnogi busnesau ac sy'n deg.
Ynghyd â'r grant bloc, bydd trethi Cymru yn ariannu'r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus hanfodol y mae llawer o bobl yn ein cymdeithas yn dibynnu arnynt. Pan gyflwynir cyfraddau Cymreig o dreth incwm, bydd penderfyniadau ynglŷn ag oddeutu £5 biliwn o refeniw treth a gesglir yng Nghymru yn cael eu gwneud yng Nghymru gan y Llywodraeth ganolog neu lywodraeth leol. Gyda'r pwerau wedi'u datganoli i Gymru, mae cyfle gennym i edrych ar drethi'n gyfunol. Bydd yn newid natur ein dadleuon ynglŷn â refeniw a chyllidebau yn y dyfodol, ac edrychaf ymlaen at y trafodaethau hyn.
Rwy'n hapus i gefnogi'r cynnig hwn y prynhawn yma, a hoffwn ddiolch i'r holl Aelodau sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl ac ymuno gyda hwy ac ategu'r sylwadau canmoliaethus a wnaethant am y swyddogion sydd wedi gweithio ar y prosiect hwn. Diolch.
Thank you. Can I now call on Llyr Gruffydd to reply to the debate?
Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar Llyr Gruffydd i ymateb i'r ddadl?
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'd like to thank as well everyone who's taken part in this debate. I think it reflects the consensus that exists around the way that the implementation has been delivered. Nick and others have mentioned the FSB report, and their conclusions chimed very much with those of the committee. But, it isn't just the FSB, the Wales Audit Office of course, when they reported on the WRA at the end of last year, said that it has
'operated effectively to date to administer devolved taxes in Wales...The Welsh Treasury has appropriate arrangements in place to obtain assurance over HMRC's implementation of Welsh Rates of Income Tax'.
I think the message is so far so good, but as I underlined in my opening remarks, we mustn't take anything for granted, and we obviously need to retain the same level of vigilance that anyone would expect of us in this process. There was reference as well from Nick, I think, to the need to grow capacity within Wales now because this is a new discussion emerging now. We're hearing bits of it today, aren't we, in terms of what future taxation policy will look like under future Welsh Governments, and clearly we're starting maybe to tease out some manifesto commitments in the run up to 2021.
It is important, as Alun Davies said, that tax policy represents our values, and as Mike Hedges said also, it's a mean of delivering policy outcomes, isn't it? It isn't just a means of generating revenue, and that is very much going to be part of that evolutionary process that we as parties engaging in the political discourse in the run-up to the next election will be engaging in as well.
There are certainly lessons to be learnt from Scotland, as we heard during this debate. For once, the second mover advantage is quite positive, because they can make the mistakes and we can learn from them. That's certainly something that we need to take advantage of.
I just want to make a comment as well about the cross-border issue—there have been a few references to that. That is actually a piece of work that the committee is looking to undertake sometime around the autumn, in that we look at the effects of different—[Interruption.] I'm being applauded now by somebody's phone—the different impacts of differences in tax rates across borders, and I think it'll be useful for us to have that so that we can bottom-out some of those concerns that are being flagged up as issues for some, not so for others, as we heard. But I think that would be a useful contribution as a committee that we can make to that whole discussion.
Diolch ichi, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Hoffwn ddiolch i bawb sydd wedi cymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon hefyd. Credaf ei bod yn adlewyrchu'r consensws sy'n bodoli ynghylch y ffordd y cyflawnwyd y gwaith. Mae Nick ac eraill wedi sôn am adroddiad y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach, ac roedd eu casgliadau'n adleisio casgliadau'r pwyllgor i raddau helaeth. Ond nid yn unig y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach sydd wedi dweud hyn, fe ddywedodd Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, wrth gwrs, pan gyflwynodd adroddiad ar Awdurdod Cyllid Cymru ddiwedd y llynedd, ei fod
'wedi gweithio’n effeithiol hyd yn hyn i weinyddu trethi datganoledig yng Nghymru... Mae gan Drysorlys Cymru drefniadau priodol ar waith i dderbyn sicrwydd ynghylch y ffordd mae CThEM yn gweithredu cyfraddau treth incwm Cymru'.
Rwy'n meddwl bod y neges yn dda hyd yn hyn, ond fel y pwysleisiais yn fy sylwadau agoriadol, ni allwn gymryd unrhyw beth yn ganiataol, ac yn amlwg mae angen inni gadw'r un lefel o wyliadwriaeth y byddai unrhyw un yn ei ddisgwyl gennym yn y broses hon. Hefyd, cyfeiriodd Nick, rwy'n credu, at yr angen i dyfu capasiti yng Nghymru yn awr oherwydd mae hon yn drafodaeth newydd sy'n dod i'r amlwg yn awr. Rydym yn clywed darnau ohoni heddiw, onid ydym, o ran sut beth fydd y polisi trethiant yn y dyfodol o dan Lywodraethau Cymru yn y dyfodol, ac yn amlwg efallai ein bod yn dechrau denu rhai ymrwymiadau maniffesto yn y cyfnod hyd at 2021.
Mae'n bwysig, fel y dywedodd Alun Davies, fod y polisi treth yn cynrychioli ein gwerthoedd, ac fel y dywedodd Mike Hedges hefyd, mae'n fodd o gyflawni canlyniadau polisi, onid yw? Nid ffordd o gynhyrchu refeniw yn unig ydyw, ac mae hynny'n bendant yn mynd i fod yn rhan o'r broses esblygol y byddwn ni fel pleidiau a fydd yn rhan o'r drafodaeth wleidyddol yn y cyfnod cyn yr etholiad nesaf ynghlwm wrthi hefyd.
Yn sicr mae gwersi i'w dysgu gan yr Alban, fel y clywsom yn ystod y ddadl. Am unwaith, mae mantais y sawl sy'n symud yn ail yn eithaf cadarnhaol, oherwydd gallant hwy wneud y camgymeriadau a gallwn ni ddysgu oddi wrthynt. Mae hynny'n sicr yn rhywbeth y mae angen inni fanteisio arno.
Rwyf am wneud sylw hefyd am y mater trawsffiniol—cafwyd ychydig o gyfeiriadau at hynny. Mae hwnnw'n waith y mae'r pwyllgor yn mynd i edrych arno o gwmpas yr hydref, yn yr ystyr y byddwn yn edrych ar effeithiau gwahanol—[Torri ar draws.] Caf fy nghymeradwyo yn awr gan ffôn rhywun—gwahanol effeithiau gwahaniaethau mewn cyfraddau treth ar draws ffiniau, a chredaf y bydd hi'n ddefnyddiol inni gael hynny fel ein bod yn gallu mynd i wraidd rhai o'r pryderon sy'n cael eu nodi fel problemau i rai, ac nid i eraill, fel y clywsom. Ond credaf y byddai hwnnw'n gyfraniad defnyddiol y gallwn ei wneud fel pwyllgor i'r holl drafodaeth honno.
Mae Awdurdod Refeniw Cymru, fel yr oedd Rhun ap Iorwerth yn dweud, wedi gosod bar uchel iawn, ond, wrth gwrs, byddwn i ddim yn disgwyl dim gwahanol. Ac mi fydd hi'n her i gynnal hynny ond, wrth gwrs, dyna dwi'n meddwl sydd yn rhaid inni sicrhau fydd nawr yn para. Ac mae ymateb yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, fel mae bron iawn pawb wedi cyfeirio ato fe, i'r cais i ddod i roi tystiolaeth—y niferoedd o geisiadau sydd wedi bod dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, a dweud y gwir, i ddod gerbron y Pwyllgor Cyllid—yn siomedig eithriadol. Mae'r cynnig i gwrdd â ni'n unigol, dwi'n credu, yn tanseilio pa bynnag resymeg sydd gan yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol i beidio ag ymddangos o flaen y pwyllgor, oherwydd mae yna demtasiwn i ni fel wyth aelod o'r pwyllgor i'w gwrdd ag e'n unigol wyth gwaith. Mi awn ni i Lundain i wneud hynny os oes rhaid, ac, yn sicr, mi aiff y pwyllgor i unrhyw le er mwyn sicrhau bod yna dryloywder a bod yna atebolrwydd o'r cyfeiriad hynny hefyd.
Y neges sylfaenol, dwi'n credu, i fi yn fan hyn yw: os gallwn ni barhau dros y blynyddoedd nesaf i roi datganoli cyllid ar waith yn y modd y mae e wedi cael ei roi ar waith hyd yma, yna, yn fy marn i, mi fyddwn ni fel sefydliad, wrth inni agosáu at ugainmlwyddiant y Cynulliad yma, yn deilwng, gobeithio, o gael ein galw yn Senedd. Diolch.
The WRA, as Rhun ap Iorwerth said, has set a very high bar, but, of course, we wouldn't expect any different. And it will be a challenge to maintain that, but’s that, of course, is what I think we need to ensure will now happen. And the response from the Secretary of State, as nearly everyone has said, to the request to give evidence—the numerous requests over recent years to appear before the Finance Committee—is very disappointing. The offer to meet with us individually undermines, I think, whichever rationale the Secretary of State has for not appearing before the committee, because it is tempting for us as eight Assembly Members to meet individually eight times. We’ll go to London to do that if we have to, and, certainly, the committee will go anywhere in order to ensure that there is transparency and that there is accountability from that direction as well.
The basic message, I think, from me here is: if we can continue over the coming years to put fiscal devolution into practice in the way that it has been implemented so far, then, in my opinion, we will, as an institution, as we approach the twentieth anniversary of this Assembly, be worthy, I hope, of being called a Senedd. Thank you very much.
Thank you. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Diolch. Y cynnig yw nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Rebecca Evans, a gwelliannau 2 a 3 yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth.
The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Rebecca Evans, and amendments 2 and 3 in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth.
We now move on to item 8 on the agenda this afternoon, which is the Welsh Conservative debate on community mental health teams. I call on Darren Millar to move the motion.
Symudwn ymlaen at eitem 8 ar yr agenda y prynhawn yma, sef dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ar dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol. Galwaf ar Darren Millar i wneud y cynnig.
Cynnig NDM7028 Darren Millar
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn nodi Cyd Adolygiad Thematig Arolygiaeth Iechyd Cymru ac Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru o Dimau Iechyd Meddwl Cymunedol.
2. Yn nodi ymhellach y nifer gynyddol o atgyfeiriadau i'r timau iechyd meddwl cymunedol ledled Cymru.
3. Yn gresynu at y diffyg cydraddoldeb rhwng gwasanaethau iechyd corfforol a gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl.
4. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i wella'r cymorth a ddarperir gan dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol, a mynediad ato, gan gynnwys:
a) cynyddu gwariant ar wasanaethau iechyd meddwl mewn termau real bob blwyddyn hyd at ddiwedd tymor y Cynulliad;
b) sicrhau bod timau argyfwng ar gael 24/7 ym mhob adran achosion brys mawr;
c) gweithio ar frys gyda byrddau iechyd i wella cyfleusterau iechyd meddwl cymunedol ar gyfer defnyddwyr y gwasanaeth a staff; a
d) codi ymwybyddiaeth ynghylch mynediad at dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol fel y gall defnyddwyr y gwasanaeth gael y cyngor gorau posibl.
Motion NDM7028 Darren Millar
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Notes the Health Inspectorate Wales and Care Inspectorate Wales Joint Thematic Review of Community Mental Health Teams.
2. Further notes the increasing number of referrals to community mental health teams across Wales.
3. Regrets the lack of parity between physical health and mental health services.
4. Calls on the Welsh Government to improve the support provided by and access to community mental health teams, including:
a) increasing spending on mental health services in real terms each and every year until the end of the Assembly term;
b) ensuring that crisis teams are available 24/7 in all major emergency departments;
c) urgently working with health boards to improve community mental health facilities for service users and staff; and
d) raising awareness over access to community mental health teams so service users can get the best advice possible.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm very pleased to move the motion today in my name on the order paper. I think that some of the debates that we've had on mental health issues here in the National Assembly have seen the Assembly at its very best, coming together in order to highlight some of the challenges that we face collectively and bringing together people from different political persuasions to try to have and agree a consensus in terms of the approach that we can have on some of these issues. Indeed, there has been a lot of common ground in recent years. We were, of course, very fortunate to have the Mental Health (Wales) Measure 2010, which was put forward by my colleague and former Assembly Member Jonathan Morgan some years ago, which was supported by all political parties in the Senedd at that time. And, of course, we've had a number of debates on mental health, including those where we've had Assembly Members talk about some of their own struggles and challenges with mental health problems. And I think they've been some of the most powerful debates, frankly, that I certainly as an Assembly Member have experienced.
We've also come together, of course, to try to support the aims and objectives of the Time to Change campaign, to tackle the stigma around mental health. And so it's in that spirit that we bring forward this debate this afternoon, and we're very grateful to acknowledge the support that we've had from Mind Cymru and from the British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy, which have indicated to us that they fully support the motion that's before us.
Now, we've had debates on many aspects of secondary and primary mental health care, but I don't recall ever having a specific debate focusing on the issue that we want to talk about today, and that is community mental health teams. And I think it's important that we look at this issue, and very timely that we look at this issue, because, of course, we have seen the identification of a number of problems with community mental health teams as a result of the Healthcare Inspectorate Wales and Care Inspectorate Wales joint report, which was published in February. But I just wanted to take the opportunity to remind people what community mental health teams are about.
Now, from their name, you might think that they're part of the primary care system, because they're based in the community, but that of course is not the case—they are firmly part of the secondary care approach to mental health. They are multidisciplinary teams that very often involve psychiatric nurses, psychologists, therapists, counsellors, support workers and social workers, who come together in order to support people with quite acute and difficult mental health problems—complex and severe mental health problems.
Diolch ichi, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n falch iawn o wneud y cynnig yn fy enw ar y papur trefn heddiw. Credaf fod rhai o'r dadleuon a gawsom ar faterion iechyd meddwl yma yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol wedi gweld y Cynulliad ar ei orau, yn dod ynghyd er mwyn tynnu sylw at rai o'r heriau sy'n ein hwynebu ar y cyd ac yn dwyn pobl at ei gilydd o wahanol dueddiadau gwleidyddol i geisio cytuno ar gonsensws o ran y dull gweithredu y gallwn ei gael ar rai o'r materion hyn. Yn wir, cafwyd llawer o dir cyffredin yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Roeddem yn ffodus iawn, wrth gwrs, o gael Mesur Iechyd Meddwl (Cymru) 2010, a gyflwynwyd gan fy nghyd-Aelod a'r cyn-Aelod Cynulliad Jonathan Morgan rai blynyddoedd yn ôl, ac a gefnogwyd gan yr holl bleidiau gwleidyddol yn y Senedd ar y pryd. Ac wrth gwrs, rydym wedi cael nifer o ddadleuon ar iechyd meddwl, gan gynnwys y rheini lle cawsom Aelodau'r Cynulliad yn siarad am rai o'u heriau a'u brwydrau eu hunain â phroblemau iechyd meddwl. A chredaf eu bod wedi bod ymhlith rhai o'r dadleuon mwyaf grymus, a dweud y gwir, a brofais i, yn sicr, fel Aelod Cynulliad.
Rydym wedi dod at ein gilydd hefyd, wrth gwrs, i geisio cefnogi nodau ac amcanion yr ymgyrch Amser i Newid, i fynd i'r afael â'r stigma sydd ynghlwm wrth iechyd meddwl. Ac felly, yn yr ysbryd hwnnw y cyflwynwn y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma, ac rydym yn ddiolchgar iawn i allu cydnabod y cymorth a gawsom gan Mind Cymru a Chymdeithas Cwnsela a Seicotherapi Prydain, sydd wedi dweud wrthym eu bod yn cefnogi'r cynnig sydd ger ein bron yn llwyr.
Nawr, rydym wedi cael dadleuon ar sawl agwedd ar ofal iechyd meddwl sylfaenol ac eilaidd, ond nid wyf yn cofio inni gael dadl benodol yn canolbwyntio ar yr hyn yr ydym am sôn amdano heddiw, sef timau iechyd meddwl cymunedol. Ac mae'n bwysig ein bod yn edrych ar y mater hwn, ac yn amserol iawn ein bod edrych ar y mater hwn, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, rydym wedi gweld nifer o broblemau'n codi mewn perthynas â thimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol o ganlyniad i'r cyd-adroddiad gan Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru ac Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru, a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Chwefror. Ond roeddwn am fanteisio ar y cyfle i atgoffa pobl o'r hyn y mae timau iechyd meddwl cymunedol yn ei wneud.
Nawr, o'u henw, gallech feddwl eu bod yn rhan o'r system gofal sylfaenol, am eu bod wedi'u lleoli yn y gymuned, ond nid yw hynny'n wir wrth gwrs—maent yn bendant yn rhan o'r dull gofal eilaidd o weithredu gofal iechyd meddwl. Maent yn dimau amlddisgyblaethol sy'n aml iawn yn cynnwys nyrsys seiciatrig, seicolegwyr, therapyddion, cwnselwyr, gweithwyr cymorth a gweithwyr cymdeithasol, ac sy'n dod at ei gilydd er mwyn cefnogi pobl sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl acíwt ac anodd iawn—problemau iechyd meddwl cymhleth a difrifol.
Daeth y Llywydd i’r Gadair.
The Llywydd took the Chair.
I mentioned a few moments ago that there had been this joint report, which the healthcare inspectorate and the care inspectorate had produced. Some of the findings in that report were very, very concerning. The report found that there was a disparity and a variation in the consistency and the availability of services provided by community mental health teams across Wales, and it's some of those issues that I want to just focus on for a few moments, if I can.
One of the problems that was identified was that there was a difficulty in the referral system—that it was pretty inconsistent, and that not everybody was able to access services in a timely fashion when they needed to be able to access them. It was clear from the report that general practitioners were not always clear on how to refer directly into their community mental health teams and very often were referring to hospital teams instead.
The report said that there was a need for a single point of access, from a referral point of view, so that people knew exactly where to present their patients when they were in need of care and support. Of course, this chimes very well with some of the findings and recommendations that we've seen from Assembly committees that have looked into our mental health services as well. We remember that it wasn't that long ago that we debated the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee's report on suicide prevention, which also highlighted this issue of needing to have some clear pathways and some timely access to support when it was required.
The report found also that many people find difficulties in accessing community mental health teams, particularly during a crisis. While there were some parts of Wales where people were getting immediate support, in other parts of Wales there were people who were struggling to access services, particularly GP out-of-hours services. Of course, a number of people were reporting that they had to make a number of separate presentations in an emergency department before they were getting access to the sort of crisis support that they needed.
I think it was just two fifths of those who were surveyed as part of that work who said that when they contacted their mental health teams—their community mental health teams—during a crisis, only two thirds were actually getting the help that they needed. That's why we have made one of our calls in this debate the need for crisis teams to be available 24/7—around the clock—in all our major emergency departments across Wales, so that the support is there when it's needed in a crisis. We need that uniform access and pathway to that crisis support.
It's very difficult to understand precisely what the level of demand is for community mental health teams, because, of course, there's no data currently published by the Welsh Government in relation to them. Fortunately, Mind Cymru have done some work on this, through freedom of information requests. It suggests that between 2014-15 and 2017-18, referrals into community mental health teams have grown by around 18 per cent, and that is over 4,000 additional referrals going into those teams, currently standing—or in 2017-18—at 26,711 referrals in a year. Now, that is less than the actual number of referrals across Wales, because, unfortunately, there's one health board that was unable to give any information about the number of referrals that were going into their community mental health teams, and, unfortunately, that's the only health board that was in special measures—the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board.
We know that Betsi is in special measures because of concerns around its delivery of mental health services, so I think it's particularly troubling that that is the one health board that doesn't seem to be able to have a grasp on the total number of referrals, because, of course, you need to know what the referrals are in order that you can plan to meet the demand that's presenting itself to those teams, so that you can manage people's care—remember, these are very vulnerable people—in an effective and safe way. So, I think it is concerning that there is a serious lack of data, and that's one of the reasons we will be supporting the Plaid Cymru amendments that have come forward, one of which refers, of course, to the need to publish data on a regular basis.
Now, we talk a lot in this Chamber about the need for parity between mental and physical health services, and I think it's absolutely right that we should have equality between those two services, to make sure that we are measuring performance against similar suites of targets. But it's clear that here in Wales there are too many people at the moment waiting for far too long for access to talking therapies. I know it's a matter of concern to people in all political parties here, including members of the Government. And those waits have been highlighted in the HIW and care inspectorate report, and it can be anything up to two years. Now, when people are referred to secondary care services for support, they need that support in a timely manner, and waiting, frankly, for two years before they get access to the treatment that they need is clearly not good enough.
Now, there are targets that the Welsh Government has for both local primary mental health support services and, indeed, for community mental health teams and secondary services to meet, but what is strange is that, usually, if you're in a level of more severe need, you would expect that you would need a quicker intervention, so the target should effectively be shorter. That's not the case in terms of the targets that the NHS in Wales is currently operating to in respect of mental health services, which I think is something that we need to work to address.
For example, local primary mental health support services, which are there to support those with mild to moderate or very stable, severe enduring mental health needs have a target of 28 days from presenting themselves to a primary care team to the date on which they are assessed. That is the target period—they've got to be assessed within 28 days. And then there's another target that there is 28 days from the date of that assessment until they must receive treatment. Truncated—56 days being the maximum that someone should have to wait from the time that they are referred to the time that they receive treatment.
But for secondary care services, including access to community mental health teams—and these are people with more severe and more complex mental health needs—the target is 26 weeks from assessment to treatment—not from referral to treatment, but from assessment to treatment. Now, that, to me, clearly suggests that there's a problem in the system somewhere in terms of what the level of priority ought to be. Now, I appreciate there are going to be challenges in being able to bring that target time down, but it is concerning that we're not there at the moment.
And, of course, performance against these targets is not published routinely. I'm assuming it's measured somewhere by the Government, but we don't have the data to be able to demonstrate whether the NHS in Wales is meeting these targets, and I think that we need to do something about that. There was a clear commitment in the 'Together for Mental Health' delivery plan, published for 2012-16, that said that we would have a mental health core data set by December 2014. We don't have that yet, and, in fact, I think it's being kicked down the road to 2022, which is clearly not ambitious enough. Neither have we seen annual reports for quite some time, in terms of the delivery of the Together for Mental Health programme. That was a commitment that was made—that we would have annual reports—but we haven't had them.
So, clearly, things need to change. We very much hope that the Assembly will support the motion before us, and we will accept those amendments that I referred to earlier. Thank you.
Soniais ychydig funudau yn ôl fod adroddiad ar y cyd wedi'i gynhyrchu gan yr arolygiaeth gofal iechyd a'r arolygiaeth ofal. Roedd rhai o'r canfyddiadau yn yr adroddiad hwnnw'n peri pryder mawr iawn. Canfu'r adroddiad fod gwahaniaeth ac amrywiaeth o ran cysondeb ac argaeledd y gwasanaethau a ddarperir gan dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol ledled Cymru, ac rwyf am ganolbwyntio ar rai o'r materion hynny am ychydig funudau, os caf.
Un o'r problemau a nodwyd oedd bod anhawster yn y system atgyfeirio—ei bod yn bur anghyson, ac nad oedd pawb yn gallu cael gafael ar wasanaethau mewn modd amserol pan oedd angen iddynt allu cael gafael arnynt. Roedd yn amlwg o'r adroddiad nad oedd ymarferwyr cyffredinol bob amser yn glir ynglŷn â sut i gyfeirio'n uniongyrchol at eu timau iechyd meddwl cymunedol ac yn aml iawn roeddent yn atgyfeirio at dimau ysbytai yn lle hynny.
Dywedodd yr adroddiad fod angen un pwynt mynediad, o safbwynt atgyfeirio, fel bod pobl yn gwybod yn union ble i gyfeirio eu cleifion pan oeddent angen gofal a chymorth. Wrth gwrs, mae hyn yn cyd-fynd yn dda iawn gyda rhai o'r canfyddiadau a'r argymhellion a welsom gan bwyllgorau'r Cynulliad a fu'n edrych ar ein gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl. Rydym yn cofio nad oes cymaint â hynny o amser er pan fuom yn trafod adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon ar atal hunanladdiad, adroddiad a oedd hefyd yn tynnu sylw at yr angen i gael llwybrau clir a mynediad amserol at gymorth pan fo angen.
Canfu'r adroddiad hefyd fod llawer o bobl yn cael anhawster i gael gafael ar dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol, yn enwedig yn ystod argyfwng. Er bod rhai rhannau o Gymru lle roedd pobl yn cael cymorth ar unwaith, mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru roedd pobl yn cael trafferth i gael mynediad at wasanaethau, yn enwedig gwasanaethau meddyg teulu y tu allan i oriau. Wrth gwrs, roedd nifer o bobl yn adrodd eu bod wedi gorfod ymweld ag adran achosion brys sawl gwaith cyn iddynt gael mynediad at y math o gymorth argyfwng yr oeddent ei angen.
Credaf fod dwy ran o bump o'r rhai a holwyd fel rhan o'r gwaith hwnnw wedi dweud, pan wnaethant gysylltu â'u timau iechyd meddwl—eu timau iechyd meddwl cymunedol—yn ystod argyfwng, mai dwy ran o dair yn unig ohonynt a oedd yn cael y cymorth oedd ei angen arnynt mewn gwirionedd. Dyna pam mai un o'r galwadau a wnaethom yn y ddadl hon yw'r angen i dimau argyfwng fod ar gael 24/7—ddydd a nos—yn ein holl adrannau achosion brys mawr ledled Cymru, fel bod y gefnogaeth yno pan fo'i hangen mewn argyfwng. Mae angen y mynediad unffurf hwnnw a llwybr at gymorth o'r fath mewn argyfwng.
Mae'n anodd iawn deall beth yn union yw lefel y galw am dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, nid oes unrhyw ddata'n cael ei gyhoeddi gan Lywodraeth Cymru mewn perthynas â hwy ar hyn o bryd. Yn ffodus, mae Mind Cymru wedi gwneud rhywfaint o waith ar hyn, drwy geisiadau rhyddid gwybodaeth. Rhwng 2014-15 a 2017-18, mae'n honni bod atgyfeiriadau at dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol wedi cynyddu oddeutu 18 y cant, sy'n golygu bod dros 4,000 o atgyfeiriadau ychwanegol yn mynd i'r timau hynny, gan wneud cyfanswm ar hyn o bryd—neu yn 2017-18—o 26,711 o atgyfeiriadau mewn blwyddyn. Nawr, mae hynny'n llai na nifer wirioneddol yr atgyfeiriadau ledled Cymru, oherwydd, yn anffodus, ni allodd un bwrdd iechyd roi unrhyw wybodaeth am nifer yr atgyfeiriadau a oedd yn mynd i'w timau iechyd meddwl cymunedol, ac yn anffodus, yr unig fwrdd iechyd sy'n destun mesurau arbennig oedd hwnnw—Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr.
Gwyddom fod bwrdd iechyd Betsi Cadwaladr yn destun mesurau arbennig oherwydd pryderon ynglŷn â'r modd y mae'n darparu gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl, felly rwy'n meddwl ei fod yn destun pryder arbennig mai dyna'r un bwrdd iechyd nad yw'n ymddangos ei fod yn gallu ymdopi â chyfanswm y nifer o atgyfeiriadau, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, mae angen i chi wybod beth yw'r atgyfeiriadau i allu cynllunio ar gyfer ateb y galw y mae'r timau hynny'n ei weld, er mwyn i chi allu rheoli gofal pobl—cofiwch fod y rhain yn bobl sy'n agored iawn i niwed—mewn ffordd ddiogel ac effeithiol. Credaf felly fod y diffyg data difrifol yn peri pryder, a dyna un o'r rhesymau pam y byddwn yn cefnogi'r gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd gan Blaid Cymru, ac mae un ohonynt yn cyfeirio, wrth gwrs, at yr angen i gyhoeddi data yn rheolaidd.
Nawr, rydym yn sôn llawer yn y Siambr hon am yr angen am gydraddoldeb rhwng gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl a gwasanaethau iechyd corfforol, ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n hollol iawn inni gael cydraddoldeb rhwng y ddau wasanaeth, i wneud yn siŵr ein bod yn mesur perfformiad yn erbyn setiau tebyg o dargedau. Ond mae'n amlwg fod gormod o bobl yma yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd yn aros yn llawer rhy hir i gael mynediad at therapïau siarad. Gwn ei fod yn destun pryder i bobl ym mhob plaid wleidyddol yma, gan gynnwys aelodau o'r Llywodraeth. Ac mae'r amseroedd aros hynny wedi cael sylw yn adroddiad Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru a'r arolygiaeth ofal, a gall fod yn unrhyw beth hyd at ddwy flynedd. Nawr, pan gaiff pobl eu hatgyfeirio at wasanaethau gofal eilaidd i gael cymorth, mae angen y cymorth arnynt mewn modd amserol, ac mae'n amlwg nad yw aros am ddwy flynedd cyn iddynt gael mynediad at y driniaeth sydd ei hangen arnynt yn ddigon da.
Nawr, mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru dargedau i wasanaethau cymorth iechyd meddwl sylfaenol lleol ac yn wir, i dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol a gwasanaethau eilaidd eu cyrraedd, ond yr hyn sy'n rhyfedd yw, fel arfer, os oes gennych lefel o angen mwy difrifol, byddech yn disgwyl y byddai angen ymyrraeth gynt arnoch, felly dylai'r targed fod yn fyrrach i bob pwrpas. Nid yw hynny'n wir mewn perthynas â'r targedau y mae'r GIG yng Nghymru yn eu gweithredu ar hyn o bryd ar gyfer gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl, a chredaf fod hynny'n rhywbeth y mae angen inni weithio i fynd i'r afael ag ef.
Er enghraifft, mae targed o 28 diwrnod yn bodoli ar gyfer gwasanaethau cymorth iechyd meddwl sylfaenol lleol, sydd yno i gefnogi'r rheini sydd ag anghenion iechyd meddwl bach i gymedrol, neu anghenion iechyd mawr parhaus sy'n sefydlog iawn, o'r adeg y dônt i sylw tîm gofal sylfaenol hyd at y dyddiad y cânt eu hasesu. Dyna'r cyfnod targed—rhaid iddynt gael eu hasesu o fewn 28 diwrnod. Ac yna ceir targed arall o 28 diwrnod o ddyddiad yr asesiad hyd nes y byddant yn cael triniaeth. Yn gryno—56 diwrnod yw'r uchafswm y dylai'n rhaid i rywun aros o'r adeg y cânt eu hatgyfeirio hyd at yr adeg y byddant yn cael triniaeth.
Ond ar gyfer gwasanaethau gofal eilaidd, gan gynnwys mynediad at dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol—ac mae'r rhain yn bobl sydd ag anghenion iechyd meddwl mwy difrifol a chymhleth—y targed yw 26 wythnos rhwng asesiad a thriniaeth—nid rhwng atgyfeirio a thriniaeth, ond rhwng asesiad a thriniaeth. Nawr, mae hynny i mi yn awgrymu'n glir fod problem yn y system yn rhywle o ran beth ddylai lefel y flaenoriaeth fod. Nawr, rwy'n sylweddoli bod heriau'n mynd i fod i allu gostwng yr amser targed, ond mae'n achos pryder nad ydym yno ar hyn o bryd.
Ac wrth gwrs, nid yw perfformiad yn erbyn y targedau hyn yn cael ei gyhoeddi fel mater o drefn. Rwy'n cymryd ei fod yn cael ei fesur yn rhywle gan y Llywodraeth, ond nid oes gennym ddata i allu dangos a yw'r GIG yng Nghymru yn cyrraedd y targedau hyn, a chredaf fod angen inni wneud rhywbeth ynglŷn â hynny. Cafwyd ymrwymiad clir yn y cynllun cyflawni 'Law yn Llaw at Iechyd Meddwl', a gyhoeddwyd ar gyfer 2012-16, a ddywedai y byddai gennym set ddata graidd ar gyfer iechyd meddwl erbyn Rhagfyr 2014. Nid ydym wedi'i chael eto, ac yn wir, rwy'n credu ei bod yn cael ei gohirio nes 2022, ac mae'n amlwg nad yw hynny'n ddigon uchelgeisiol. Nid ydym ychwaith wedi gweld adroddiadau blynyddol ers cryn dipyn o amser ynghylch cyflawniad y rhaglen Law yn Llaw at Iechyd Meddwl. Roedd hwnnw'n ymrwymiad a wnaethpwyd—y byddem yn cael adroddiadau blynyddol—ond nid ydym wedi eu cael.
Felly, yn amlwg, mae angen i bethau newid. Rydym yn mawr obeithio y bydd y Cynulliad yn cefnogi'r cynnig ger ein bron, a byddwn yn derbyn y gwelliannau y cyfeiriais atynt yn gynharach. Diolch i chi.
Rwyf wedi dethol y tri gwelliant i'r cynnig, a dwi'n galw ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i gynnig yn ffurfiol gwelliant 1 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans.
I've selected the three amendments to the motion, and I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services to formally move amendment 1 tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans.
Gwelliant 1—Rebecca Evans
Dileu pwyntiau 3 a 4 a rhoi yn eu lle:
Yn cydnabod yr angen i sicrhau cydraddoldeb rhwng gwasanaethau iechyd y corff a gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl;
Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i wella’r cymorth a ddarperir gan dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol a gwella’r mynediad at y cymorth hwnnw, gan gynnwys:
a) parhau i gynyddu’r gwariant ar wasanaethau iechyd meddwl mewn termau real bob blwyddyn hyd at ddiwedd tymor y Cynulliad, yn dibynnu ar ganlyniad yr adolygiad o wariant yn 2019;
b) sicrhau bod trefniadau ar waith i ymateb i argyfyngau iechyd meddwl bob awr o bob dydd ym mhob un o’r adrannau achosion brys mawr;
c) gweithio ar frys gyda’r byrddau iechyd i wella cyfleusterau iechyd meddwl cymunedol ar gyfer defnyddwyr y gwasanaeth a staff; a
d) codi ymwybyddiaeth ynghylch mynediad at dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol fel y gall defnyddwyr y gwasanaeth gael y cyngor gorau posibl.
Amendment 1—Rebecca Evans
Delete points 3 and 4 and replace with:
Recognises the need to ensure parity between physical and mental health services;
Calls on the Welsh Government to improve the support provided by and access to community mental health teams, including:
a) continuing to increase spending on mental health services in real terms each and every year until the end of the Assembly term, subject to the outcome of the 2019 spending review;
b) ensuring arrangements are in place to respond to mental health crisis 24/7 in all major emergency departments;
c) urgently working with health boards to improve community mental health facilities for service users and staff; and
d) raising awareness over access to community mental health teams so service users can get the best advice possible.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.
Amendment 1 moved.
Formally.
Yn ffurfiol.
Galwaf ar Helen Mary Jones nawr i gynnig gwelliannau 2 a 3 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth.
I call on Helen Mary Jones to move amendments 2 and 3 tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Gwelliant 2—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Ym mhwynt 4, ychwanegu is-bwynt newydd ar ddiwedd pwynt 4:
cyhoeddi data perfformiad ystyrlon ar amseroedd aros, gan gynnwys grwpiau oedran a diagnosis, fel y gall hawliadau'n ymwneud â gwella gael eu gwirio'n annibynnol.
Gwelliant 3—Rhun ap Iorwerth
Ym mhwynt 4, ychwanegu is-bwynt newydd ar ddiwedd pwynt 4:
sicrhau bod timau iechyd meddwl cymunedol yn cysylltu â gwasanaethau hawliau lles i amddiffyn pobl sy'n agored i niwed yn erbyn asesiadau'r adran gwaith a phensiynau a phrosesau gwneud penderfyniad sydd yn aml yn gwaethygu cyflyrau iechyd meddwl .
Amendment 2—Rhun ap Iorwerth
In point 4, add as new sub-point at end of point 4:
publishing meaningful performance data on waiting times, including by age groups and diagnosis, so that claims of improvement can be independently verified.
Amendment 3—Rhun ap Iorwerth
In point 4, add as new sub-point at end of point 4:
ensuring that community mental health teams liaise with welfare rights services to protect vulnerable people against DWP assessments and decision making processes that can often exacerbate mental health conditions.
Cynigiwyd gwelliannau 2 a 3.
Amendments 2 and 3 moved.
Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Can I thank the Conservatives for bringing forward this important motion? I welcome the opportunity to take part in this debate, and I'd like to associate myself with much of what Darren Millar has said. I think it was a very thoughtful portrayal of what is a very complex problem. I think, particularly, we can all agree that there is something really wrong with the waiting time targets. When somebody is seriously mentally ill, they need help immediately, and there is a real risk that, if somebody presents asking for help and they don't get it immediately, their condition will worsen. If it's got a comorbidity with drug and alcohol, as often is the case, you will have people whose self-medication may get out of control—that is one of the reasons I believe that we end up seeing such a high proportion of our prison population being people with mental health issues, because sometimes those mental health issues are not addressed in a timely way. And I say that in the co-operative spirit in which Darren Millar has put forward this debate. I think we would all aspire here for better and we have to look to the Minister to deliver that.
I won't repeat the comments that Darren has made. I just want to speak very briefly, Llywydd, to our two amendments and to begin by saying we won't support the Government amendment, because we think Darren Millar has made a very strong case for the need to have co-located emergency crisis teams in A&E departments. I have myself seen some very distressing situations, very busy A&E doctors trying to deal with young people, particularly, presenting with very serious mental health issues. They haven't got the capacity or the skills to do it and they need somebody to be able to come in straight away, somewhere where they can refer straight away. I can think of one particular case where I had to sit in A&E with a very, very highly distressed young person who was suicidal, and there was nowhere for her to be taken, except at that stage—and this was some years ago, thank goodness—potentially a police cell. You can imagine how awful that was for her but also for the medical staff that were dealing with her. So, we believe the case for co-located teams is made.
If I can turn to our own amendments and amendment 3, there is no doubt that successive changes in the social security system, which, of course, were begun by Lord Freud under Tony Blair—the work capacity assessments—have hit people with mental health issues very hard. It is easy to see if somebody has, say, a physical disability that means they need to use a wheelchair. It is much harder to see how debilitating a mental health problem can be. I have to say that, as an elected Member in this place, I have never failed to win an appeal, when I have supported a person with a mental health problem, from their original Atos test—where, of course, the tests are undertaken by people who are not qualified and they don't know, frankly, very often, what they're doing—and I'm sure there are many of us in the room who've been able to support successful appeals. But I am left with the question about people who do not know, who don't have somebody with them who can seek that kind of advocacy.
These tests were clearly designed by people who do not understand the experience of invisible disability; they don't understand fluctuating conditions. And the very process of forcing people with an ongoing mental health issue to repeatedly be reassessed is actually—and I can think again, and I'm sure others in this room—exacerbating mental ill health. We need to challenge this and one practical way in which we could do that here is to ensure that community mental health teams across Wales have really strong relationships with local benefits advice, so that those people who have to go through those assessments—much as we might like to see them gone—have some proper professional support. it isn't always possible for them—
Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. A gaf fi ddiolch i'r Ceidwadwyr am gyflwyno'r cynnig pwysig hwn? Rwy'n croesawu'r cyfle i gymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon, a hoffwn gysylltu fy hun â llawer o'r hyn a ddywedodd Darren Millar. Credaf ei fod yn bortread meddylgar iawn o'r hyn sy'n broblem gymhleth iawn. Yn benodol, rwy'n credu y gall pawb ohonom gytuno bod rhywbeth mawr o'i le gyda'r targedau amseroedd aros. Pan fydd rhywun yn dioddef salwch meddwl difrifol, mae angen help arnynt yn syth, ac os oes rhywun yn gofyn am help ac nad ydynt yn ei gael ar unwaith, mae gwir berygl y bydd eu cyflwr yn gwaethygu. Os oes ganddynt gydafiachedd gyda chyffuriau ac alcohol, fel sy'n digwydd yn aml, bydd gennych bobl y gallai eu hunanfeddyginiaethu fynd allan o reolaeth—dyna un o'r rhesymau pam y credaf ein bod yn gweld cyfran mor uchel o boblogaeth ein carchardai yn bobl sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl, oherwydd weithiau nid ymdrinnir â'r problemau iechyd meddwl hynny mewn ffordd amserol. Ac rwy'n dweud hynny yn yr ysbryd cydweithredol y cyflwynodd Darren Millar y ddadl hon ynddo. Credaf y byddai pawb ohonom yma yn dyheu am well a rhaid inni ddisgwyl i'r Gweinidog gyflawni hynny.
Nid wyf am ailadrodd y sylwadau a wnaeth Darren. Rwyf am siarad yn fyr, Lywydd, am ein dau welliant a dechrau drwy ddweud na fyddwn yn cefnogi gwelliant y Llywodraeth, oherwydd credwn fod Darren Millar wedi gwneud achos cryf iawn dros yr angen i gydleoli timau argyfwng brys mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys. Yn bersonol gwelais sefyllfaoedd sy'n peri gofid mawr, meddygon adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn ceisio ymdrin â phobl ifanc, yn enwedig, gyda phroblemau iechyd meddwl difrifol iawn. Nid oes ganddynt gapasiti na sgiliau i wneud hynny ac mae angen rhywun i allu dod i mewn ar unwaith, rhywle lle gallant atgyfeirio cleifion ar unwaith. Gallaf feddwl am un achos penodol pan oedd yn rhaid i mi eistedd mewn adran damweiniau ac achosion brys gyda pherson ifanc mewn trallod mawr a oedd yn hunanladdol, ac nid oedd unman i fynd â hi, ar wahân i gell yr heddlu o bosibl ar y cam hwnnw—ac roedd hyn rai blynyddoedd yn ôl, diolch byth. Gallwch ddychmygu pa mor ofnadwy oedd hynny iddi ond hefyd i'r staff meddygol a oedd yn ymdrin â hi. Felly, credwn fod yr achos dros gyd-leoli timau wedi'i wneud.
Os caf droi at ein gwelliannau ni a gwelliant 3, nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth fod newidiadau olynol yn y system nawdd cymdeithasol, a gychwynnwyd, wrth gwrs, gan yr Arglwydd Freud o dan Tony Blair—yr asesiadau o'r gallu i weithio—wedi taro pobl â phroblemau iechyd meddwl yn galed iawn. Mae'n hawdd gweld os oes gan rywun anabledd corfforol, dywedwch, sy'n golygu bod angen iddynt ddefnyddio cadair olwyn. Mae'n llawer anos gweld pa mor wanychol y gall problem iechyd meddwl fod. Rhaid imi ddweud, fel Aelod etholedig yn y lle hwn, nad wyf erioed wedi methu ennill apêl wrth i mi gefnogi person sydd â phroblem iechyd meddwl, yn sgil prawf Atos gwreiddiol—lle cynhelir y profion, wrth gwrs, gan bobl nad ydynt yn gymwys ac nad ydynt yn gwybod beth y maent yn ei wneud yn aml iawn, a bod yn onest—ac rwy'n siŵr fod llawer ohonom yn yr ystafell wedi llwyddo i gefnogi apeliadau llwyddiannus. Ond caf fy ngadael gyda'r cwestiwn ynglŷn â phobl nad ydynt yn gwybod, sydd heb rywun gyda hwy a all sicrhau'r math hwnnw o eiriolaeth.
Lluniwyd y profion hyn yn amlwg gan bobl nad ydynt yn deall y profiad o anabledd anweledig; nid ydynt yn deall cyflyrau sy'n gyfnewidiol. Ac mae'r broses o orfodi pobl â phroblem iechyd meddwl barhaus i gael eu hailasesu dro ar ôl tro mewn gwirionedd—a gallaf feddwl eto, ac rwy'n siŵr y gall eraill yn yr ystafell hon—yn gwaethygu'r salwch meddwl. Mae angen inni herio hyn ac un ffordd ymarferol y gallem ei wneud yma yw sicrhau bod cysylltiadau cryf iawn gan dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol ledled Cymru â chyngor lleol ar fudd-daliadau, fel bod y bobl sy'n gorfod mynd drwy'r asesiadau hynny—cymaint ag y byddem yn dymuno eu gweld yn diflannu—yn cael cymorth proffesiynol priodol. Nid yw bob amser yn bosibl iddynt—
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
I'd be very happy to take an intervention.
Byddai'n bleser gennyf dderbyn ymyriad.
Do you think that—? I think you make a very strong case that mental health problems can be linked to welfare reform. Do you think that devolution of the administration of welfare could help, if we could shape some of those assessments and procedures ourselves?
A gredwch fod—? Credaf eich bod yn gwneud achos cryf iawn dros gysylltu problemau iechyd meddwl â diwygio lles. A gredwch y gallai datganoli gweinyddu lles helpu, pe baem yn gallu llunio rhai o'r asesiadau a'r gweithdrefnau hynny ein hunain?
I think, absolutely, it could. I think we might bring a very different set of values to those assessments and I'm very glad that the Welsh Government has finally agreed to keep that under review.
I'll turn very briefly, with the Llywydd's indulgence, to our amendment 2, which looks at the case for data. If I can just give one example very briefly, we've been raising for a long time the waiting times in CAMHS. The then First Minister rightly said that there were probably too many young people on the CAMHS pathway who didn't need to be there. A decision was made in 2017 to remove some 1,700 children from the pathway—around 74 per cent of them were on waiting lists at the time. Now, that may have been absolutely the right thing to do for those individual young people, but my point is that we don't really know—we don't really know where they went, we don't really know what their outcomes were, and we don't know if they actually got more appropriate interventions.
Darren Millar has already referred to some of the issues around the lack of information, the lack of data—I am absolutely shocked, though sadly not surprised, that there is a local health board that simply can't tell people about the number of referrals to their community mental health teams. I'm sure the Minister would agree with all of us that this isn't acceptable and I would urge him again today to accelerate that 2022 deadline for effective collection of data. We cannot solve the problem if we don't know how big it is and we don't know what it looks like. Even with the best will in the world even the most gifted Minister in the world cannot do that.
So, I'll end my remarks, Llywydd, by thanking again the Conservatives, thanking them for accepting our amendments, and commending this motion and our amendments to the Chamber.
Yn sicr, credaf y gallai. Credaf y gallem ddod â set wahanol iawn o werthoedd i'r asesiadau hynny ac rwy'n falch iawn fod Llywodraeth Cymru o'r diwedd wedi cytuno i gadw hynny dan arolwg.
Fe drof yn fyr iawn, gyda chaniatâd y Llywydd, at ein gwelliant 2, sy'n edrych ar yr achos dros gael data. Os caf roi un enghraifft yn fyr iawn, rydym wedi bod yn cyfeirio ers amser hir at amseroedd aros Gwasanaethau Iechyd Meddwl Plant a'r Glasoed (CAMHS). Dywedodd y Prif Weinidog ar y pryd yn briodol iawn ei bod yn debygol fod yna ormod o bobl ifanc ar y llwybr CAMHS nad oedd angen iddynt fod arno. Gwnaed penderfyniad yn 2017 i dynnu tua 1,700 o blant oddi ar y llwybr—roedd tua 74 y cant ohonynt ar restrau aros ar y pryd. Nawr, efallai mai dyna oedd y peth cwbl gywir i'w wneud ar gyfer y bobl ifanc unigol hynny, ond fy mhwynt yw nad ydym yn gwybod mewn gwirionedd—nid ydym yn gwybod mewn gwirionedd i ble'r aethant, nid ydym yn gwybod beth oedd eu canlyniadau, ac nid ydym yn gwybod a gawsant ymyriadau mwy priodol.
Mae Darren Millar eisoes wedi cyfeirio at rai o'r problemau sy'n ymwneud â diffyg gwybodaeth, diffyg data—rwyf wedi fy syfrdanu, er nad yw'n syndod gwaetha'r modd, fod yna fwrdd iechyd lleol na all ddweud wrth bobl ynglŷn â nifer yr atgyfeiriadau at eu timau iechyd meddwl cymunedol. Rwy'n siŵr y byddai'r Gweinidog yn cytuno gyda phawb ohonom nad yw hyn yn dderbyniol a hoffwn ei annog eto heddiw i sicrhau bod y broses o gasglu data'n effeithiol erbyn 2022 yn digwydd yn gynt na hynny. Ni allwn ddatrys y broblem os nad ydym yn gwybod pa mor fawr yw hi ac os nad ydym yn gwybod beth yn union yw hi. Hyd yn oed gyda'r ewyllys orau yn y byd ni all y Gweinidog mwyaf dawnus yn y byd wneud hynny.
Felly, rwyf am orffen fy sylwadau, Lywydd, drwy ddiolch unwaith eto i'r Ceidwadwyr, a diolch iddynt am dderbyn ein gwelliannau, a thrwy gymeradwyo'r cynnig hwn a'n gwelliannau i'r Siambr.
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak this afternoon on the findings of this report, produced jointly by Healthcare Inspectorate Wales and Care Inspectorate Wales. The findings make grim reading. The report found disparity and variability in the consistency and availability of treatment, care and support provided by community mental health teams across Wales. It makes 23 recommendations over 40 areas to address the current failings in the system.
I would like to address my remarks today to problems facing patients in accessing the services they need. I am concerned that patients are often unable to access the care they need in a timely manner or close to their home. The most recent figures show that just over half of patients were seen within the 28-day referral-to-treatment time target for mental health services. Nearly 6 per cent of patients had to wait longer than six months for treatment. Waiting times for talking therapies also cause concern, with 16 per cent of patients being forced to wait over 28 days for this vital service. One of the significant inequalities and inconsistencies highlighted in the report relates to 24/7 crisis care across the different health authorities. Some health boards, such as Cwm Taf, operate a telephone helpline for anyone experiencing a mental health crisis. This service is available 24 hours a day. However, other health boards operate this service for just 12 hours a day, and some of these helplines exist only to support people already known to the service.
There are inconsistencies even within the health boards. Abertawe Bro Morgannwg health board provides a 24-hour service for people in Swansea but only a 12-hour service for residents of Bridgend or Neath Port Talbot. This postcode lottery crisis care cannot continue. It is unfair and unacceptable.
Crisis care for children and young people are equally impacted by significant inequalities. Only three health boards in Wales provide crisis teams for 12 hours a day, seven days a week. In Powys, no services are available on weekends or after 5 p.m. on weekdays. On the subject of services for young people, I have to raise the issue of the lack of beds for young people with high-risk mental health problems. There are only three specialist in-patient units in Wales, with 51 places. Since December, Welsh patients have been removed from Regis Healthcare in Ebbw Vale because of concerns about their safety. As a result, this leaves only 27 beds elsewhere. Healthcare Inspectorate Wales have described the shortage as 'unacceptable'.
Issues also exist at the other two units. Tŷ Llidiard in Bridgend is under restricted criteria for referrals until improvement work is carried out, and the unit in Abergele has recruitment issues. As a result of these shortages, young people are not always able to receive timely care close to where they live and are having to be placed out of the area. Concerns about capacity were first raised by the Welsh Government in 2013, six years ago. It is clear that Welsh Government must, as a matter of urgency, review the demand for these services against the ability and capacity at CAMHS units to ensure that young people can receive the treatment they need. Early diagnosis is very important in mental health, Presiding Officer. If it is diagnosed, either by family practitioners or others, it can be cured early rather than leaving it too late, and, if the treatment comes later, it takes much longer to treat the person for the rest of their life.
Presiding Officer, I hope the Minister will accept the recommendations in this report and act to ensure that people with mental illness receive fair and equitable treatment irrespective of which part of this nation they live in. Thank you.
Rwy'n ddiolchgar am y cyfle i siarad y prynhawn yma ar ganfyddiadau'r adroddiad hwn a gynhyrchwyd ar y cyd gan Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru ac Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru. Maent yn ganfyddiadau brawychus. Canfu'r adroddiad anghyfartaledd ac amrywioldeb o ran cysondeb ac argaeledd y driniaeth, gofal a chymorth a ddarperir gan dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol ledled Cymru. Mae'n gwneud 23 o argymhellion mewn 40 o feysydd i fynd i'r afael â'r methiannau presennol yn y system.
Hoffwn gyfeirio fy sylwadau heddiw at y problemau sy'n wynebu cleifion rhag cael gafael ar y gwasanaethau sydd eu hangen arnynt. Rwy'n pryderu bod cleifion yn aml yn methu cael gafael ar y gofal y maent ei angen mewn modd amser neu'n agos at eu cartref. Mae'r ffigurau diweddaraf yn dangos mai ychydig dros hanner y cleifion a gafodd eu gweld o fewn y targed amser rhwng atgyfeirio a thriniaeth o 28 diwrnod ar gyfer gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl. Bu'n rhaid i bron 6 y cant o gleifion aros mwy na chwe mis am driniaeth. Mae amseroedd aros ar gyfer therapïau siarad hefyd yn achosi pryder, gyda 16 y cant o gleifion yn cael eu gorfodi i aros dros 28 diwrnod am y gwasanaeth hanfodol hwn. Mae un o'r anghydraddoldebau ac anghysonderau sylweddol a amlygwyd yn yr adroddiad yn ymwneud â gofal argyfwng 24/7 ar draws yr awdurdodau iechyd gwahanol. Mae rhai byrddau iechyd, fel Cwm Taf, yn gweithredu llinell gymorth dros y ffôn ar gyfer unrhyw un sy'n profi argyfwng iechyd meddwl. Mae'r gwasanaeth hwn ar gael 24 awr y dydd. Fodd bynnag, nid yw byrddau iechyd eraill ond yn gweithredu'r gwasanaeth hwn am 12 awr y dydd yn unig, ac mae rhai o'r llinellau cymorth hyn ond yn bodoli i gefnogi'r bobl y mae'r gwasanaeth eisoes yn gwybod amdanynt.
Ceir anghysonderau o fewn y byrddau iechyd hyd yn oed. Mae bwrdd iechyd Abertawe Bro Morgannwg yn darparu gwasanaeth 24 awr ar gyfer pobl yn Abertawe ond gwasanaeth 12 awr yn unig a geir ar gyfer trigolion Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr neu Gastell-nedd Port Talbot. Ni ellir parhau loteri cod post o'r fath ar gyfer gofal mewn argyfwng. Mae'n annheg ac yn annerbyniol.
Mae anghydraddoldebau sylweddol yn effeithio i'r un graddau ar ofal mewn argyfwng ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc. Tri bwrdd iechyd yn unig yng Nghymru sy'n darparu timau argyfwng am 12 awr y dydd, saith diwrnod yr wythnos. Ym Mhowys, nid oes unrhyw wasanaethau ar gael ar benwythnosau neu ar ôl 5 p.m. ar ddyddiau'r wythnos. Ar fater gwasanaethau ar gyfer pobl ifanc, rhaid imi nodi problem diffyg gwelyau ar gyfer pobl ifanc sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl risg uchel. Tair uned cleifion mewnol arbenigol a geir yng Nghymru, gyda 51 o leoedd. Ers mis Rhagfyr, mae cleifion Cymru wedi'u symud o Regis Healthcare yng Nglynebwy oherwydd pryderon am eu diogelwch. O ganlyniad, mae hyn yn gadael 27 o welyau yn unig mewn mannau eraill. Mae Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru wedi galw'r prinder yn 'annerbyniol'.
Mae problemau'n codi hefyd yn y ddwy uned arall. Mae Tŷ Llidiard ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr yn gweithredu meini prawf cyfyngedig ar gyfer atgyfeiriadau hyd nes y cyflawnir gwaith gwella, ac mae'r uned yn Abergele yn wynebu problemau recriwtio. O ganlyniad i'r prinder hwn, nid yw pobl ifanc bob amser yn gallu cael gofal amserol sy'n agos at ble maent yn byw ac mae'n rhaid eu lleoli y tu allan i'r ardal. Mynegwyd pryderon am gapasiti yn gyntaf gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn 2013, chwe blynedd yn ôl. Mae'n amlwg bod rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru fynd ati fel mater o frys i adolygu'r galw am y gwasanaethau hyn yn erbyn gallu a chapasiti'r unedau CAMHS er mwyn sicrhau y gall pobl ifanc gael y driniaeth sydd ei hangen arnynt. Mae diagnosis cynnar yn bwysig iawn mewn perthynas ag iechyd meddwl, Lywydd. Os gwneir diagnosis ohono, naill ai gan feddyg teulu neu eraill, gellir ei wella'n gynnar yn hytrach na'i adael nes y bydd yn rhy hwyr, ac os rhoddir triniaeth yn ddiweddarach, mae'n cymryd llawer mwy o amser i drin yr unigolyn am weddill eu bywydau.
Lywydd, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog yn derbyn yr argymhellion yn yr adroddiad hwn ac yn gweithredu i sicrhau bod pobl â salwch meddwl yn cael triniaeth deg a chyfartal lle bynnag maent yn byw yn y wlad hon. Diolch.
Llywydd, I'd like to officially thank the Tories for bringing this motion forward. I agree with Darren Millar's view, and I acknowledge it. It's in the spirit of working to ensure we get the right services for some of the most vulnerable people that this debate has been put forward, and that's crucial.
Last month, I chaired the cross-party group on mental health in which the report was discussed. The following day, actually, following that meeting, I raised it in the business statement with the Trefnydd, where I sought a statement from the health Minister as to how he would respond to the report, and I was informed that perhaps by the end of the week I would get a response, and I welcome the opportunity to ask the same question again today and see if we can now actually get a response from the Welsh Government to that report, because we haven't had it yet.
Now, it's essential that people with mental health needs as well as their carers and their families—we haven't mentioned their carers and their families yet—get the best care and support possible, and it's concerning that the report by HIW and CIW that was published actually shows there are inconsistencies in care across Wales, and stresses that there's a need for vast improvement in the community health teams in order to ensure people experiencing mental health needs and their families receive the best care and support.
We are increasingly moving to a world where care back in the community is the main aim, and, if we are to achieve that, we must ensure that people do feel safe and in control when they go back into their own environment. We cannot afford to not address the key findings in this report. And the foreword says it all, really. The Member for South Wales East, Oscar, actually stated the issues about inconsistency, availability of treatment, care provided in the community—said it all, and, in fact, if you read the report, we hear the words 'variable' and 'inconsistent' so many times, and it is important that Welsh Government, health boards and local authorities need to carefully consider and examine all areas highlighted in the report and act on the recommendations so that people living with mental health illness will receive equitable care wherever they live in Wales.
People described the service as cumbersome and difficult to navigate. They referred to a lack of understanding of different referral criteria, which meant that referrals, especially from GPs, were submitting the wrong information, leading to delays in accessing assessments and support, and, more worryingly, there were concerns expressed over access to services for people experiencing mental health crises, which Darren Millar highlighted in his opening points and in his motion. Half the people didn't actually know who to contact out of hours, and that's frightening—to think that, if someone has a mental health illness, families and carers don't know who to access to help that person. We have to address that.
There were several questions raised in the report over the delivery of safe and effective care. Please read those words: safe and effective care for these vulnerable people. And it's already been highlighted about the lack of data, but also the involvement of family members or carers in producing the actual care plans for those individuals. The report highlighted that almost half of family members or carers weren’t involved in the discussions leading to the decisions for the community health team support to be discontinued. So, they were being discharged with over half of the family members not actually being involved in those discussions. A third said that they weren't provided with information—. Sorry. Less than a third said that they were provided with information of who to contact. That is not acceptable. If you're caring for a person with a mental health illness and you're putting them back in the community, because you're discharging them, without support, the least you can do is to ensure their family members and their carers are informed as to what action to take if a crisis arises. We need to address that if we really respect the individuals who are facing those challenges. We often in this Chamber—. Darren said—you're quite right—we often in the Chamber highlight the vulnerability of these individuals and the actions we as an Assembly should be taking to protect them, and this report is saying we're not doing that. We should, therefore, request that our Government ensure that they respond to all the recommendations in this report to ensure that those people are able to depend upon the services available via the community mental health teams and all other teams to provide the care they would expect—the care I would expect if it was me or my family.
In concluding their findings, the CIW and HIW noted:
'There is still significant improvement required across Community Mental Health services to be in a position to meet the vision set out in Together for Mental Health'.
I look forward to that coming to fruition. Minister, I do know that one of the big issues is about resource. We've been talking about talking therapies—it's about resource. Sometimes, we haven't got the resources to do that. I accept that, but we need to start developing those resources. We haven't got enough, so let's get them in place, let's do the training, let's get people to be able to deliver those services. We have to be in a position, as a nation, to support people with mental health illness to ensure that, as a community, they're not left vulnerable in their own homes.
Lywydd, hoffwn ddiolch yn swyddogol i'r Torïaid am gyflwyno'r cynnig hwn. Rwy'n cytuno â barn Darren Millar, ac rwy'n cydnabod hynny. Cyflwynwyd y ddadl hon yn yr ysbryd o weithio i sicrhau ein bod yn cael y gwasanaethau cywir ar gyfer rhai o'r bobl fwyaf agored i niwed, ac mae hynny'n hollbwysig.
Y mis diwethaf, cadeiriais y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar iechyd meddwl pan drafodwyd yr adroddiad. Y diwrnod canlynol, mewn gwirionedd, yn dilyn y cyfarfod hwnnw, fe'i codais yn y datganiad busnes gyda'r Trefnydd, pan ofynnais am ddatganiad gan y Gweinidog iechyd ynglŷn â sut y byddai'n ymateb i'r adroddiad, a chefais wybod y cawn ateb erbyn diwedd yr wythnos efallai, ac rwy'n croesawu'r cyfle i ofyn yr un cwestiwn eto heddiw a gweld a allwn gael ymateb gan Lywodraeth Cymru i'r adroddiad hwnnw yn awr, oherwydd nid ydym wedi'i gael hyd yma.
Nawr, mae'n hollbwysig fod pobl sydd ag anghenion iechyd meddwl yn ogystal â'u gofalwyr a'u teuluoedd—nid ydym wedi sôn am eu gofalwyr a'u teuluoedd eto—yn cael y gofal a'r cymorth gorau posibl, ac mae'n peri pryder fod yr adroddiad gan Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru ac Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru a gyhoeddwyd yn dangos mewn gwirionedd fod yna anghysonderau yn y gofal ar draws Cymru, ac yn pwysleisio bod angen gwella'r timau iechyd cymunedol yn helaeth er mwyn sicrhau bod pobl sy'n profi anghenion iechyd meddwl a'u teuluoedd yn cael y gofal a'r cymorth gorau.
Rydym yn symud fwyfwy i fyd lle mae gofal yn ôl yn y gymuned yn brif nod, ac os ydym i gyflawni hynny, rhaid inni sicrhau bod pobl yn teimlo'n ddiogel ac mewn rheolaeth pan fyddant yn mynd yn ôl i'w hamgylchedd eu hunain. Ni allwn fforddio peidio â mynd i'r afael â'r canfyddiadau allweddol yn yr adroddiad hwn. Ac mae'r rhagair yn dweud y cyfan mewn gwirionedd. Nododd yr Aelod dros Ddwyrain De Cymru, Oscar, y materion sy'n codi o ran anghysondeb, argaeledd triniaeth, gofal a ddarperir yn y gymuned—fe ddywedodd y cyfan, ac yn wir, os darllenwch yr adroddiad, rydym yn clywed y geiriau 'amrywiol' ac 'anghyson' cymaint o weithiau, ac mae'n bwysig fod Llywodraeth Cymru, byrddau iechyd ac awdurdodau lleol angen ystyried yn ofalus ac archwilio'r holl feysydd a nodwyd yn yr adroddiad a gweithredu ar yr argymhellion fel y bydd pobl sy'n byw gyda salwch meddwl yn cael gofal cyfartal lle bynnag maent yn byw yng Nghymru.
Roedd pobl yn dweud bod y gwasanaeth yn feichus ac yn anodd ei ddefnyddio. Roeddent yn cyfeirio at ddiffyg dealltwriaeth o wahanol feini prawf ar gyfer atgyfeirio, a olygai bod atgyfeiriadau, yn enwedig gan feddygon teulu, yn cyflwyno'r wybodaeth anghywir, gan arwain at oedi cyn cael asesiadau a chymorth, ac yn fwy pryderus, mynegwyd pryderon ynghylch mynediad at wasanaethau i bobl sy'n profi argyfyngau iechyd meddwl, fel y nododd Darren Millar yn ei bwyntiau agoriadol ac yn ei gynnig. Mewn gwirionedd nid oedd hanner y bobl yn gwybod â phwy y gallent gysylltu y tu allan i oriau, ac mae hynny'n frawychus—i feddwl, os oes gan rywun salwch meddwl, nid yw teuluoedd a gofalwyr yn gwybod pwy i droi atynt er mwyn helpu'r unigolyn dan sylw. Rhaid inni fynd i'r afael â hynny.
Roedd sawl cwestiwn yn codi yn yr adroddiad ynglŷn â darparu gofal diogel ac effeithiol. Darllenwch y geiriau hynny: gofal diogel ac effeithiol ar gyfer y bobl hyn sy'n agored i niwed. Ac mae'r diffyg data wedi'i nodi eisoes, ond hefyd ymwneud aelodau o'r teulu neu ofalwyr yn y broses o gynhyrchu'r cynlluniau gofal ar gyfer yr unigolion hynny. Nododd yr adroddiad nad oedd bron i hanner yr aelodau teuluol neu ofalwyr wedi cael eu cynnwys yn y trafodaethau a arweiniodd at y penderfyniadau i ddod â chymorth y tîm iechyd cymunedol i ben. Felly, roeddent yn cael eu rhyddhau o ofal heb fod dros hanner yr aelodau teuluol yn rhan o'r trafodaethau hynny. Dywedodd un rhan o dair nad oeddent wedi cael gwybodaeth—. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf. Dywedodd llai na thraean eu bod wedi cael gwybodaeth ynglŷn â phwy i gysylltu â hwy. Nid yw hynny'n dderbyniol. Os ydych yn gofalu am berson sydd â salwch meddwl a'ch bod yn eu gosod yn ôl yn y gymuned, oherwydd eich bod yn eu rhyddhau o ofal, heb gymorth, y peth lleiaf y gallwch ei wneud yw sicrhau bod aelodau o'u teuluoedd a'u gofalwyr yn cael gwybod beth i'w wneud mewn argyfwng. Mae angen inni ymdrin â hynny os ydym yn parchu'r unigolion sy'n wynebu'r heriau hyn. Yn aml yn y Siambr hon, rydym—. Dywedodd Darren—rydych yn hollol iawn—ein bod yn aml yn y Siambr yn tynnu sylw at ba mor agored i niwed yw'r unigolion hyn a'r camau y dylem ni fel Cynulliad eu cymryd i'w diogelu, ac mae'r adroddiad hwn yn dweud nad ydym yn gwneud hynny. Felly, dylem ofyn i'n Llywodraeth sicrhau eu bod yn ymateb i'r holl argymhellion yn yr adroddiad hwn er mwyn sicrhau bod modd i'r bobl hyn ddibynnu ar y gwasanaethau sydd ar gael drwy gyfrwng y timau iechyd meddwl cymunedol a'r holl dimau eraill i ddarparu'r gofal y byddent yn ei ddisgwyl—gofal y buaswn yn ei ddisgwyl i mi fy hun neu aelod o fy nheulu.
Wrth gloi eu canfyddiadau, nododd Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru ac Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru:
'bod angen gwneud cryn dipyn o welliannau o hyd mewn gwasanaethau Iechyd Meddwl Cymunedol er mwyn bod mewn sefyllfa i gyflawni'r weledigaeth a nodir yn Law yn Llaw at Iechyd Meddwl'.
Edrychaf ymlaen at weld hynny'n dwyn ffrwyth. Weinidog, gwn mai un o'r problemau mawr yw adnoddau. Rydym wedi bod yn sôn am therapïau siarad—mae'n ymwneud ag adnoddau. Weithiau, nid oes gennym adnoddau i wneud hynny. Rwy'n derbyn hynny, ond mae angen inni ddechrau datblygu'r adnoddau hynny. Nid oes gennym ddigon, felly gadewch i ni eu cael yn eu lle, gadewch i ni wneud yr hyfforddiant, gadewch i ni gael pobl i allu darparu'r gwasanaethau hyn. Rhaid inni fod mewn sefyllfa, fel cenedl, i allu cefnogi pobl â salwch meddwl er mwyn sicrhau, fel cymuned, nad ydynt yn cael eu gadael yn agored i niwed yn eu cartrefi eu hunain.
I think it's fairly evident that, here today, many of our Members, cross party, recognise the urgency for continued improvement in our provision for mental healthcare support. We are all too aware that mental health problems do not discriminate; they effect mothers, children, fathers, expectant mothers, young people, adults, the middle age, the elderly generation and those with other ailments and diagnosed conditions compounding the problem. While attending to mental health requires a considerable degree of self-care and the implementation of healthy lifestyle habits, for victims of adverse and traumatic experiences and severe mental health crises, proper mental health intervention and care is essential. Yet, our mental health services and the current organisation and management of our health boards are currently, in some instances, too ill-equipped to deal with this demand. The quality of care that is required to prevent a further increase of suicide rates—among young people and male adults in particular—substance abuse and debilitating mental health illness is profound.
As an Assembly Member—a constituency Member with an office in the town of Llandudno—sadly, I see too much anecdotal evidence of people who simply cannot access mental health support or any form of counselling or anything, at a time when they present at a time of major crisis. Indeed, Presiding Officer, the training and retention of qualified medical staff and professionals is one of my chief concerns. According to Mind, as part of the GP training curriculum, currently, just one of 21 clinical modules are focused on mental health, and the number of rotations that trainee doctors complete in a mental health environment has been decreasing in the last five years. It's going backwards. Yet, these trends are not reflecting that mental health issues are now the modern-day epidemic and the fact that a third of GP appointments now relate to mental health issues.
So, I ask the Minister, in all honesty and in all sincerity, how can the Welsh Government ensure that trainee medical professionals and doctors are receiving the training—the relevant training—that is really needed for our current generational needs, whilst—
Credaf ei bod yn eithaf amlwg yma heddiw fod llawer o'n Haelodau, o bob plaid, yn cydnabod y brys i sicrhau gwelliant parhaus yn y modd y darparwn gymorth ar gyfer gofal iechyd meddwl. Rydym yn ymwybodol iawn nad yw problemau iechyd meddwl yn gwahaniaethu; maent yn effeithio ar famau, plant, tadau, mamau beichiog, pobl ifanc, oedolion, pobl ganol oed, y genhedlaeth hŷn a'r rhai sydd ag anhwylderau eraill ac sydd wedi cael diagnosis o gyflyrau eraill gan waethygu'r broblem. Er bod gofalu am iechyd meddwl yn galw am gryn dipyn o hunanofal a gweithredu arferion ffordd o fyw iach, i ddioddefwyr profiadau niweidiol a thrawmatig ac argyfyngau iechyd meddwl difrifol, mae ymyrraeth a gofal iechyd meddwl priodol yn hanfodol. Ac eto, nid yw ein gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl a'r modd y trefnir ac y rheolir ein byrddau iechyd ar hyn o bryd, mewn rhai achosion, yn ddigon da i allu ymdopi â'r galw hwn. Mae ansawdd y gofal sydd ei angen i atal cynnydd pellach yn y cyfraddau hunanladdiad—ymhlith pobl ifanc ac oedolion gwrywaidd yn benodol—camddefnyddio sylweddau a salwch meddwl gwanychol yn eithriadol.
Fel Aelod Cynulliad—Aelod etholaeth gyda swyddfa yn nhref Llandudno—yn anffodus, rwy'n gweld gormod o dystiolaeth anecdotaidd o bobl na allant gael cymorth iechyd meddwl nac unrhyw fath o gwnsela neu unrhyw beth, ar adeg pan fyddant yn wynebu argyfwng dwys. Yn wir, Lywydd, mae hyfforddiant a chadw staff meddygol a gweithwyr proffesiynol cymwysedig yn un o fy mhrif bryderon. Yn ôl Mind, fel rhan o'r cwricwlwm hyfforddi meddygon teulu, ar hyn o bryd, un yn unig o'r 21 modiwl clinigol sy'n canolbwyntio ar iechyd meddwl, ac mae nifer y cylchdroadau y mae meddygon dan hyfforddiant yn eu cyflawni mewn amgylchedd iechyd meddwl wedi bod yn gostwng yn ystod y pum mlynedd diwethaf. Mae'n mynd tuag at yn ôl. Eto i gyd, nid yw'r tueddiadau hyn yn adlewyrchu'r ffaith mai problemau iechyd meddwl bellach yw'r epidemig modern a bod un rhan o dair o apwyntiadau meddygon teulu bellach yn ymwneud â materion iechyd meddwl.
Felly, gofynnaf i'r Gweinidog, yn onest ac yn gwbl ddidwyll, sut y gall Llywodraeth Cymru sicrhau bod meddygon a gweithwyr proffesiynol meddygol dan hyfforddiant yn cael yr hyfforddiant—yr hyfforddiant perthnasol—sydd ei angen mewn gwirionedd ar gyfer anghenion pobl o bob oed ar hyn o bryd—
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
Yes, sure.
Gwnaf, wrth gwrs.
Do you agree with what my colleague Helen Mary Jones said—that many people's problems with mental health could well be linked to welfare reform? And if you do accept that, do you accept that if we had control over some aspects of welfare reform here, we could mitigate some of those worse aspects of it?
A ydych yn cytuno gyda'r hyn a ddywedodd fy nghyd-Aelod, Helen Mary Jones—y gallai problemau llawer o bobl gydag iechyd meddwl yn hawdd fod yn gysylltiedig â diwygio lles? Ac os ydych yn derbyn hynny, a ydych yn derbyn, pe bai gennym reolaeth dros rai agweddau ar ddiwygio lles yma, y gallem liniaru rhai o'r agweddau gwaethaf hynny arno?
What I would say, with respect, to the Member is that there is a plethora of reasons why mental health issues—
Yr hyn a ddywedwn wrth yr Aelod, gyda phob parch, yw bod llu o resymau pam fod problemau iechyd meddwl—
But is welfare reform one of them?
Ond a yw diwygio lles yn un ohonynt?
And, to be honest, let's—. We are talking about mental health problems and how we, across this Chamber, can work towards—
Ac i fod yn onest, gadewch i ni—. Rydym yn sôn am broblemau iechyd meddwl a sut y gallwn ni, ar draws y Siambr hon, weithio tuag at—
Causes?
Achosion?
Welfare reform—let's have that debate another day. But I'm more concerned about my constituents who cannot access treatment and support when they need it, Leanne.
Furthermore, turning to the delivery of healthcare, I wish to draw particular attention to the disparate and unequal provision of crisis care and out-of-hours services. This regional discrepancy is epitomised by Swansea, which offers a 24/7 emergency telephone point, compared to Bridgend and Neath Port Talbot, which only run this service from 9 a.m. until 9 p.m. And, I'll be honest, I don't have any provision in Aberconwy that I know of, or my constituents know of, after 5 o'clock. People, when they present, when they feel at their lowest ebb—it can be at 2 o'clock in the morning, it can be at 4 o'clock in the afternoon, it can be at 7.15 of an evening, and we do not have those services in place. We do need a 365 24/7 support system somehow in Wales.
The crisis relief situation is even more alarming for children and young people. In Cwm Taf and Cardiff and Vale, CAMHS crisis teams are available from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. seven days a week, yet in Powys no services are available on the weekends or after 5 p.m.. 'What justifies this variation?' I ask the Minister. Surely, equality to access to services should be an endemic thread running through any service that he provides as a health Minister.
Indeed, regarding management, the Chamber should also be aware of the accommodation issues for high-risk young people. My colleague Mohammad Asghar really elaborated well on the problems that are being highlighted in the lack of recruitment of people in the Abergele unit, which sees people—and it also sees local authorities and health boards spending hundreds of thousands of pounds when we're perfectly well-equipped, in terms of equipment and the buildings in Abergele, but we don't have the trained, qualified staff.
In Aberconwy, the cancellation of mental health appointments at very short notice due to a shortage of consultant psychiatrists and other specialist advocates has adversely affected patients at Nant y Glyn and Roslin. And when you do present with a mental health issue, to suddenly have your appointment cancelled is the most debilitating issue in the world, it really is. When raised as a matter of concern, little heed is taken.
Now, I look forward to the forthcoming 2019-22 'Together for Mental Health' delivery plan, but let this not be another delivery plan with ambitious targets and lots of words with very few actions. I would ask the Minister: please, concentrate on the needs of those with mental health issues across Wales, and let's be pioneers and champions for them, because they are a very integral part of our society.
Diwygio lles—gadewch inni gael y ddadl honno ar ddiwrnod arall. Ond rwy'n poeni mwy am fy etholwyr na allant gael gafael ar driniaeth a chymorth pan fyddant ei angen, Leanne.
At hynny, gan droi at ddarparu gofal iechyd, hoffwn dynnu sylw penodol at y ddarpariaeth anghyfartal ac anghyson o ofal argyfwng a gwasanaethau y tu allan i oriau. Ymgorfforir yr anghysondeb rhanbarthol hwn gan Abertawe, sy'n cynnig cyswllt ffôn mewn argyfwng 24/7, o gymharu â Phen-y-bont a Chastell-nedd Port Talbot, sydd ond yn cynnig y gwasanaeth hwn o 9 a.m. tan 9 p.m. Ac fe fyddaf yn onest, nid oes gennyf unrhyw ddarpariaeth yn Aberconwy y gwn amdani, neu y gŵyr fy etholwyr amdani, ar ôl 5 o'r gloch. Pan fydd pobl yn teimlo ar eu gwaethaf—gall fod am 2 o'r gloch yn y bore, gall fod am 4 o'r gloch yn y prynhawn, gall fod am 7.15 gyda'r nos, ac nid oes gennym y gwasanaethau hynny ar waith. Mae angen system gymorth 24/7 365 diwrnod rywsut neu'i gilydd yng Nghymru.
Mae'r sefyllfa o ran cymorth mewn argyfwng hyd yn oed yn fwy brawychus ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc. Yng Nghwm Taf a Chaerdydd a'r Fro, mae timau argyfwng CAMHS ar gael rhwng 10 a.m. a 10 p.m. saith diwrnod yr wythnos, ac eto ym Mhowys nid oes unrhyw wasanaethau ar gael ar benwythnosau neu ar ôl 5 p.m.. Rwy'n gofyn i'r Gweinidog: 'Beth sy'n cyfiawnhau amrywio o'r fath?' Yn sicr, dylai mynediad cyfartal at wasanaethau fod yn elfen endemig sy'n rhedeg drwy unrhyw wasanaeth a ddarperir ganddo fel Gweinidog iechyd.
Yn wir, o ran rheoli, dylai'r Siambr fod yn ymwybodol hefyd o'r problemau llety i bobl ifanc sy'n wynebu risg uchel. Ymhelaethodd fy nghyd-Aelod Mohammad Asghar yn dda ar y problemau a amlygir yn y diffyg gallu i recriwtio pobl yn yr uned yn Abergele, sy'n gweld pobl—ac mae hefyd yn gweld awdurdodau lleol a byrddau iechyd yn gwario cannoedd o filoedd o bunnoedd er bod gennym ddarpariaeth hollol briodol o offer ac adeiladau yn Abergele, ond nid oes gennym staff hyfforddedig, cymwysedig.
Yn Aberconwy, mae canslo apwyntiadau iechyd meddwl ar fyr rybudd oherwydd prinder seiciatryddion ymgynghorol a gweithwyr arbenigol eraill wedi niweidio cleifion yn Nant y Glyn a Roslin. A phan fydd gennych broblem iechyd meddwl, mae cael eich apwyntiad wedi'i ganslo'n sydyn yn rhywbeth sy'n eich gwanychu'n eithafol iawn. Pan sonnir am hynny fel mater o bryder, ychydig iawn o sylw a gaiff.
Nawr, rwy'n edrych ymlaen at gynllun cyflawni 'Law yn Llaw at Iechyd Meddwl' sydd ar y gweill ar gyfer 2019-22, ond peidiwch â gadael i hwn fod yn gynllun cyflawni arall gyda thargedau uchelgeisiol a llawer o eiriau gyda fawr ddim gweithredu. Hoffwn ofyn i'r Gweinidog: os gwelwch yn dda, canolbwyntiwch ar anghenion y rhai sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl ledled Cymru, a gadewch inni fod yn arloeswyr ac yn hyrwyddwyr ar eu rhan, oherwydd maent yn rhan ganolog iawn o'n cymdeithas.
I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. If I shut my eyes, it could almost be groundhog day, because when I first came to this Chamber, I sat in this very chair and my colleague Jonathan Morgan sat where Nick Ramsay sits, and in the ballot for Measures at that time, he was lucky enough to win the ballot for the mental health Measure that came out. The Government took that mental health Measure on themselves, and it was subsequently introduced. One of the things, obviously, that the Measure was trying to achieve was an end to the postcode lottery that many people felt existed at the time. Some 10 years later, sadly, that postcode lottery, according to Healthcare Inspectorate Wales's report, clearly does still exist in many mental health services.
This isn't about scoring political points in any shape or form. I don't believe mental health is a political point, to be honest with you. I would find it remarkable if anyone from any political party was trying to do down mental health services or the provision of mental health services. It is a challenging environment to work in, especially when you look at the increased demand for those services. But it is vital that there is a coherent plan put in place to actually live up to the sentiments that were expressed in this Chamber some 10 years ago about cancelling out that postcode lottery, about understanding the significance of the demands on the services, whether that be in the community setting or in the acute setting. I do hope that the Minister, when he engages with the rounding up of the debate this afternoon, will give us confidence that, as a Minister and as a department—and across Government, in fact, because this isn't just about the health department, this is across Government—there is a collegial plan in place to actually lift those delivery targets so that people can, ultimately, get those waiting times down and achieve the response that they require when an emergency does happen and family members look for that support to support that loved one who finds themselves at that crisis point.
One of the things when the Youth Parliament was announced recently and when I met members of the Youth Parliament from my own elected area—each and every one of the members highlighted as their priority area mental health services for young people, and the delivery of mental health support in the school setting, in particular. One thing that the mental health Measure obviously didn't confer was that right on anyone under the age of 18. It was a point that we tried to look into at the time, and it is a growing and troubling area of concern that you look at the wait times for young people to access help and support, you look at the wait times for the families to get that support, and it's just not happening, Minister. I do hope, again, that in your response to his, you can give us some insight into what developments you are putting in place to support people in education who do struggle with their mental health, because, obviously, we do know that is a growing area of concern. As I said, when I met members who were elected from my own electoral area to the Youth Parliament, they were deeply, deeply concerned about this area and listed it as one of their top three priorities.
Also, I do believe that, looking at the report and in particular looking at some of the language that comes out, there is provision, obviously, and rightly so, for the provision of mental health services in English and Welsh, but as a representative for South Wales Central—and the Minister himself represents one of the most diverse communities in Wales, Cardiff South and Penarth—it is important to make sure that languages are covered in the provision and people aren't excluded by the language they speak. I appreciate this is a very difficult area to work with, because sometimes you're talking very few people, but there does need to be better delivery of translation and translation services in the mental health field, so that people don't get excluded by the lack of an adequate translator to be there at the point of need and in the community.
And if I could end on the final point as well, I do think that one of the things that would help GPs in particular deliver a better service is especially around talking therapies, because this is another area that I have a personal interest in. I do regret that very often people get treated medically through a drug or some other form, when talking therapies can be so helpful to people and actually keep them away from the acute sector, if they access the talking therapy in a timely manner. And there is no national register available for professionals—therapists or counsellors—to be on. There are many recognised bodies that give accreditation, but if you're a GP, for example, there is no national register there that you can access and signpost someone to, to access that support via talking therapies. I do think that's an anomaly in the system that—and I might stand to be corrected—could be rectified relatively simply by putting that in place. So, I do hope that the Minister might engage in that point as well in his address back to the Assembly today. But I do welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate, and in particular the spirit the debate has been taken in, because when one in four of us will have an episode of mental ill health through our lifetime, it is incumbent on us as legislators that when we pass legislation it delivers, and when a problem presents itself we address it.
Rwy'n croesawu'r cyfle i gyfrannu at y ddadl. Os caeaf fy llygaid, gallwn dyngu fy mod wedi bod yma o'r blaen, oherwydd pan ddeuthum gyntaf i'r Siambr hon, roeddwn yn eistedd yn y gadair hon ac roedd fy nghyd-Aelod Jonathan Morgan yn eistedd lle mae Nick Ramsay yn eistedd, ac yn y balot ar gyfer Mesurau ar y pryd, roedd yn ddigon ffodus i ennill y balot ar gyfer y Mesur iechyd meddwl. Cymerodd y Llywodraeth y Mesur iechyd meddwl hwnnw o dan ei hadain, ac fe'i cyflwynwyd yn sgil hynny. Un o'r pethau y ceisiai'r Mesur ei gyflawni wrth gwrs oedd rhoi diwedd ar y loteri cod post y teimlai llawer o bobl ei bod yn bodoli ar y pryd. Yn anffodus, oddeutu 10 mlynedd yn ddiweddarach, yn ôl adroddiad Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru, mae'n amlwg fod y loteri cod post honno'n dal i fodoli mewn llawer o wasanaethau iechyd meddwl.
Nid sgorio pwyntiau gwleidyddol mewn unrhyw fodd yw hyn. Nid wyf yn credu bod iechyd meddwl yn bwynt gwleidyddol, i fod yn onest gyda chi. Buaswn yn ei ystyried yn rhyfeddol pe bai unrhyw un o unrhyw blaid wleidyddol yn ceisio darostwng gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl neu'r ddarpariaeth o wasanaethau iechyd meddwl. Mae'n amgylchedd heriol i weithio ynddo, yn enwedig pan edrychwch ar y cynnydd yn y galw am y gwasanaethau hynny. Ond mae'n hanfodol fod yna gynllun cydlynol ar waith i gadw at y teimladau a fynegwyd yn y Siambr hon oddeutu 10 mlynedd yn ôl ynglŷn â dileu'r loteri cod post, ynglŷn â deall arwyddocâd y galwadau ar y gwasanaethau, boed yn y gymuned neu mewn lleoliad acíwt. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog, pan fydd yn crynhoi'r ddadl y prynhawn yma, yn rhoi hyder inni, fel Gweinidog ac fel adran—ac ar draws y Llywodraeth, mewn gwirionedd, oherwydd mae hyn yn ymwneud â mwy na'r adran iechyd, mae hyn ar draws y Llywodraeth—fod yna gynllun cyfunol ar waith i godi'r targedau cyflawni fel y gall pobl, yn y pen draw, gael yr amseroedd aros is a chael yr ymateb sydd ei angen arnynt pan fo argyfwng yn digwydd a phan fo aelodau teuluol yn chwilio am gymorth i gefnogi un o'u hanwyliaid sy'n wynebu'r argyfwng hwnnw.
Un o'r pethau pan gyhoeddwyd y Senedd Ieuenctid yn ddiweddar a phan gyfarfûm ag aelodau'r Senedd Ieuenctid o fy ardal etholiadol fy hun—roedd pob un o'r aelodau'n nodi gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl ar gyfer pobl ifanc fel maes blaenoriaeth, ynghyd â darparu cymorth iechyd meddwl yn yr ysgol, yn arbennig. Un peth nad oedd y Mesur iechyd meddwl yn ei roi, mae'n amlwg, oedd yr hawl honno i unrhyw un o dan 18 oed. Roedd yn bwynt y ceisiwyd edrych arno ar y pryd, ac mae'n faes pryder problemus sy'n tyfu eich bod yn edrych ar yr amseroedd aros i bobl ifanc gael mynediad at gymorth a chefnogaeth, rydych yn edrych ar yr amseroedd aros i'r teuluoedd gael y cymorth hwnnw, ac nid yw'n digwydd, Weinidog. Rwy'n gobeithio, unwaith eto, yn eich ymateb i hyn, y gallwch roi rhyw oleuni i ni ynglŷn â pha ddatblygiadau rydych yn eu rhoi ar waith i gefnogi pobl mewn addysg sy'n cael trafferth gyda'u hiechyd meddwl, oherwydd, yn amlwg, rydym yn gwybod ei fod yn faes sy'n peri pryder cynyddol. Fel y dywedais, pan gyfarfûm ag aelodau a etholwyd o fy ardal etholiadol fy hun i'r Senedd Ieuenctid, roeddent yn bryderus iawn ynglŷn â'r maes hwn ac yn ei restru fel un o'u tair prif flaenoriaeth.
Hefyd, wrth edrych ar yr adroddiad ac edrych ar beth o'r iaith sydd i'w gweld yn benodol, rwy'n credu bod yna ddarpariaeth, yn amlwg, ac yn gwbl briodol felly, ar gyfer darparu gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl yn Gymraeg a Saesneg, ond fel cynrychiolydd ar gyfer Canol De Cymru—ac mae'r Gweinidog ei hun yn cynrychioli un o'r cymunedau mwyaf amrywiol yng Nghymru, De Caerdydd a Phenarth—mae'n bwysig gwneud yn siŵr fod ieithoedd yn cael eu cynnwys yn y ddarpariaeth ac nad yw pobl yn cael eu heithrio oherwydd yr iaith y maent yn ei siarad. Rwy'n derbyn bod hwn yn faes anodd iawn i weithio gydag ef, oherwydd weithiau rydych yn sôn am ychydig iawn o bobl, ond mae angen darparu gwasanaethau cyfieithu gwell ym maes iechyd meddwl, fel nad yw pobl yn cael eu heithrio yn sgil diffyg cyfieithydd addas i fod yno lle bo angen ac yn y gymuned.
Ac os caf orffen ar y pwynt olaf yn ogystal, rwy'n meddwl mai un o'r pethau a fyddai'n helpu meddygon teulu yn enwedig i ddarparu gwasanaeth gwell yw therapïau siarad, oherwydd dyma faes arall y mae gennyf ddiddordeb personol ynddo. Rwy'n gresynu bod pobl yn aml iawn yn cael eu trin yn feddygol drwy gyffuriau neu ryw fodd arall, pan fo therapïau siarad yn gallu bod o gymaint o gymorth i bobl ac yn eu cadw allan o'r sector acíwt mewn gwirionedd, os cânt therapi siarad mewn modd amserol. Ac nid oes unrhyw gofrestr genedlaethol ar gael i allu cynnwys gweithwyr proffesiynol—therapyddion neu gwnselwyr—arni. Mae llawer o gyrff cydnabyddedig yn rhoi achrediad, ond os ydych yn feddyg teulu, er enghraifft, ni cheir unrhyw gofrestr genedlaethol y gallwch ei defnyddio i gyfeirio rhywun ati, i gael mynediad at gymorth drwy therapïau siarad. Credaf fod hynny'n ddiffyg yn y system—ac efallai y bydd rhywun am fy nghywiro—y gellid ei unioni'n gymharol syml drwy roi cofrestr o'r fath ar waith. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio y gall y Gweinidog gymryd rhan yn hynny hefyd wrth iddo annerch y Cynulliad heddiw. Ond rwy'n croesawu'r cyfle i gyfrannu at y ddadl hon, ac yn benodol yr ysbryd y cynhaliwyd y ddadl ynddo, oherwydd pan fydd un o bob pedwar ohonom yn cael episod o salwch meddwl ar ryw adeg yn ystod ein hoes, mae'n ddyletswydd arnom oll fel deddfwyr i sicrhau, pan fyddwn yn pasio deddfwriaeth, ei bod yn cyflawni, a phan fydd problem yn codi, ein bod yn rhoi sylw iddi.
Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Vaughan Gething.
I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services, Vaughan Gething.
Thank you, Llywydd. I'm pleased to have an opportunity today to restate this Government's recognition of the importance of continuing to improve mental health services. I do want to say that I welcome the general tone of the debate today, with lots of thoughtful contributions, including those that I agree with and those where I don't agree with every single part. I think it is helpful to have a genuinely healthy debate where there are differences of view and, overall, I think, a shared ambition to see improvements in experience and outcomes through our mental health services, and, importantly, the point that this isn't just a matter for the health service. The improvements and the things that give people resilience around their mental health are often not about the health service itself.
Now, one of the major parts to today's motion and debate is the thematic report by Healthcare Inspectorate Wales and the Care Inspectorate Wales. It highlights key themes and issues arising from their joint inspections of community mental health teams. The joint inspections reflect the integrated nature of these services between local health boards and local authorities, but the thematic report focuses on adult services. We have, of course, discussed in-patient CAMHS earlier today in the topical question, and we have a large amount of work in train to try and improve mental health services at an earlier, more preventative stage in the joint ministerial task and finish group in response to the 'Mind over matter' report. The thematic report recognises that progress is being made, including increasing collaboration between health and social care and in providing a responsive service during a period where we are experiencing increased scrutiny and demand for mental health services. The report makes 23 recommendations for improvement, and I can confirm the Government will respond to each of those recommendations.
Now, in an initial response to the report, the chief exec of NHS Wales wrote to Healthcare Inspectorate Wales on 20 March. That set out the Welsh Government's expectations that health boards will engage with local authority partners to provide robust improvement plans as their response to the recommendations in the report, and I can confirm that supporting community mental health teams will be a priority area in our 'Together for Mental Health' delivery plan. We will consult on the delivery plan within the next few months, and the delivery plan will also take forward the recommendations from the recent review of care and treatment planning by the NHS delivery unit. To support these improvements, we'll target additional investment over the next financial year. That will include funding to increase the range of and access to psychological therapies, and that will build on the additional £5.5 million made available in the year just ended.
The joint review also makes recommendations in relation to the Welsh community care information system. We've committed significant funds to support the implementation of this ICT system across our 22 local authorities and seven health boards. It addresses that information-sharing interface within health boards and between health boards and local authorities, including our community mental health team. I do want to respond to some of the points about the mental health core data set, which we are committed to finalising. It will include identifying appropriate and meaningful targets and developing a more outcome-focused approach to this work. These data items are being developed by a multi-agency national project steering board, and are currently being taken through the Welsh innovation standards board to ensure they're collected in a consistent way. I don't want to be explaining how the statistics we eventually produce are actually different in different parts of the country. The work is currently phased but is due to conclude by the end of this calendar year, and the data set will be captured within the Welsh community care informatics system. From a mental health perspective, we've employed staff to support work directly with teams across Wales throughout 2019 to pilot forms and data collection using our existing IT systems in preparation for the implementation within the Welsh community care information system. [Interruption.] I will.
This will include work to inform outcome-focused practice, capture service user experience and improve consistency in using outcome measures and to measure progress and recovery. That work we'll look to extend across all teams in 2020-21, so mental health data will be published on a regular basis when that system is properly and fully operational.
Diolch ichi, Lywydd. Rwy'n falch o gael cyfle heddiw i ailddatgan cydnabyddiaeth y Llywodraeth hon i bwysigrwydd parhau i wella gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl. Hoffwn ddweud fy mod yn croesawu naws gyffredinol y ddadl heddiw, gyda llawer o gyfraniadau ystyrlon, gan gynnwys y rhai rwy'n cytuno â hwy a'r rhai lle nad wyf yn cytuno â phob rhan unigol. Credaf ei bod yn ddefnyddiol cael dadl wirioneddol iach lle ceir gwahaniaeth barn ac yn gyffredinol, rwy'n credu, uchelgais a rennir i weld gwelliannau i brofiadau a chanlyniadau drwy ein gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl, ac yn bwysig, y pwynt nad mater ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd yn unig yw hwn. Yn aml, mae'r gwelliannau a'r pethau sy'n gwneud pobl yn wydn mewn perthynas â'u hiechyd meddwl yn ymwneud â mwy na'r gwasanaeth iechyd yn unig.
Nawr, un o brif rannau'r cynnig a'r ddadl heddiw yw'r adroddiad thematig gan Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru ac Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru. Mae'n amlygu themâu a materion allweddol sy'n deillio o'u cyd-adolygiadau o dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol. Mae'r cyd-adolygiadau'n adlewyrchu natur integredig y gwasanaethau hyn rhwng byrddau iechyd lleol ac awdurdodau lleol, ond mae'r adroddiad thematig yn canolbwyntio ar wasanaethau i oedolion. Wrth gwrs, rydym wedi trafod cleifion mewnol CAMHS yn gynharach heddiw yn y cwestiwn amserol, ac mae gennym lawer iawn o waith ar y gweill i geisio gwella gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl ar gam cynharach, mwy ataliol yn y cyd-grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen gweinidogol mewn ymateb i'r adroddiad 'Cadernid Meddwl'. Mae'r adroddiad thematig yn cydnabod bod cynnydd yn digwydd, gan gynnwys cydweithredu cynyddol rhwng iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol ac ar ddarparu gwasanaeth ymatebol yn ystod cyfnod pan ydym yn wynebu craffu a galw cynyddol am wasanaethau iechyd meddwl. Mae'r adroddiad yn gwneud 23 o argymhellion ar gyfer gwella, a gallaf gadarnhau bydd y Llywodraeth yn ymateb i bob un o'r argymhellion hynny.
Nawr, mewn ymateb cychwynnol i'r adroddiad, ysgrifennodd prif weithredwr GIG Cymru at Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru ar 20 Mawrth. Roedd yn nodi disgwyliadau Llywodraeth Cymru y bydd byrddau iechyd yn ymgysylltu â phartneriaid awdurdod lleol i ddarparu cynlluniau gwella cadarn fel eu hymateb i'r argymhellion yn yr adroddiad, a gallaf gadarnhau y bydd cefnogi timau iechyd meddwl cymunedol yn faes blaenoriaeth yn ein cynllun cyflawni 'Law yn Llaw at Iechyd Meddwl'. Byddwn yn ymgynghori ar y cynllun cyflawni o fewn yr ychydig fisoedd nesaf, a bydd y cynllun cyflawni hefyd yn datblygu'r argymhellion o'r adolygiad diweddar o gynllunio gofal a thriniaeth gan uned gyflawni'r GIG. I gefnogi'r gwelliannau hyn, byddwn yn targedu buddsoddiad ychwanegol dros y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf. Bydd hwnnw'n cynnwys arian i gynyddu'r ystod o therapïau seicolegol a mynediad atynt, a bydd yn adeiladu ar y £5.5 miliwn ychwanegol a ddarparwyd yn y flwyddyn sydd newydd ddod i ben.
Mae'r cyd-adolygiad hefyd yn gwneud argymhellion mewn perthynas â system wybodaeth gofal cymunedol Cymru. Rydym wedi ymrwymo arian sylweddol i gefnogi gweithredu'r system TGCh hon ar draws ein 22 awdurdod lleol a'n saith bwrdd iechyd. Mae'n ymdrin â'r rhyngwyneb rhannu gwybodaeth o fewn y byrddau iechyd a rhwng byrddau iechyd ac awdurdodau lleol, gan gynnwys ein tîm iechyd meddwl cymunedol. Hoffwn ymateb i rai o'r pwyntiau am y set ddata graidd ar gyfer iechyd meddwl yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i'w chwblhau. Bydd yn cynnwys nodi targedau priodol ac ystyrlon a datblygu dull sy'n canolbwyntio mwy ar ganlyniadau o gyflawni'r gwaith hwn. Datblygir yr eitemau data hyn gan fwrdd llywio prosiect cenedlaethol amlasiantaethol, ac ar hyn o bryd maent yn mynd drwy'r bwrdd safonau arloesedd ar gyfer Cymru er mwyn sicrhau eu bod yn cael eu casglu mewn ffordd gyson. Nid wyf eisiau gorfod esbonio sut y mae'r ystadegau a gynhyrchwn yn y pen draw yn wahanol mewn gwahanol rannau o'r wlad. Mae'r gwaith yn digwydd fesul cam ar hyn o bryd ond mae disgwyl iddo ddod i ben erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn galendr hon, a bydd y set ddata'n cael ei chynnwys o fewn y system wybodeg ar gyfer gofal cymunedol yng Nghymru. O safbwynt iechyd meddwl, rydym wedi cyflogi staff i gefnogi gwaith yn uniongyrchol gyda thimau ledled Cymru drwy gydol 2019 i dreialu casglu data a ffurflenni gan ddefnyddio ein systemau TG presennol i baratoi ar gyfer gweithredu o fewn y system wybodaeth ar gyfer gofal cymunedol yng Nghymru. [Torri ar draws.] Fe wnaf.
Bydd hyn yn cynnwys gwaith i lywio ymarfer sy'n canolbwyntio ar ganlyniadau, yn casglu gwybodaeth am brofiad defnyddwyr o wasanaethau ac yn gwella cysondeb wrth ddefnyddio mesurau canlyniadau ac i fesur cynnydd a gwellhad. Byddwn yn anelu i ymestyn y gwaith hwnnw ar draws yr holl dimau yn 2020-21, fel bod data iechyd meddwl yn cael ei gyhoeddi'n rheolaidd pan fydd y system yn gweithredu'n llawn ac yn briodol.
I'm grateful to receive an update on that, but obviously it's eight years after a clear commitment to introduce this core data set, and many people will feel that that is not sufficient regard or priority, frankly, in terms of doing this. Surely there are pieces of information that can be published in the interim—an interim suite, if you like, of targets—with some clear performance data attached to them before that core data set is published. Will you accept the ability to be able to produce something in the interim that is meaningful, perhaps against the performance of the targets that you've already got? I think it is a concern that there isn't sufficient information from health boards like Betsi—a board in special measures for its performance on mental health—and I'd be grateful if you could tell us: can you provide something in the interim, and particularly, can we get some information from Betsi?
Diolch am gael y newyddion diweddaraf ar hynny, ond yn amlwg mae wyth mlynedd wedi mynd heibio ers inni gael ymrwymiad clir i gyflwyno'r set ddata graidd hon, a bydd llawer o bobl yn teimlo nad yw hynny'n rhoi digon o sylw neu flaenoriaeth, a dweud y gwir, i wneud hyn. Does bosib nad oes darnau o wybodaeth y gellir eu cyhoeddi yn y cyfamser—cyfres dros dro, os mynnwch, o dargedau—gyda rhywfaint o ddata perfformiad clir ynghlwm wrthynt cyn y cyhoeddir y set ddata graidd. A ydych yn derbyn y gallu i allu cynhyrchu rhywbeth yn y cyfamser sy'n ystyrlon, efallai yn erbyn perfformiad y targedau sydd eisoes gennych? Mae'n destun pryder yn fy marn i nad oes digon o wybodaeth gan fyrddau iechyd fel Betsi Cadwaladr—bwrdd sy'n destun mesurau arbennig am ei berfformiad ym maes iechyd meddwl—a buaswn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech ddweud wrthym: a allwch roi rhywbeth yn y cyfamser, ac yn enwedig, a allwn gael rhywfaint o wybodaeth gan Betsi Cadwaladr?
I think there are a number of additional questions there, Llywydd. I can say, though, that we do already make performance data available. That's published, and I'm more than happy to consider again if there are things we could do in the interim. But my aim is to have a regular publication of data about mental health services that is genuinely useful, and, to do that, it has to take in engagement with a range of different people. I would much rather have something that is useful than something that is convenient or quick.
Now, the joint thematic review focused on community mental health teams. It's important to understand the overall demand for mental health services that has regularly been referred to in today's debate. Management data shows that crisis resolution and home treatment teams have seen an increase in both referral and assessment in the last two years. In the last year alone, community mental health services received around 20,000 referrals for crisis assessments, and there are, on average, an additional thousand referrals each month to local primary mental health support services when compared to 2013. In terms of activity, over 200,000 people have been seen by local primary mental health services since their introduction, with 100,000 people receiving therapeutic interventions. That increasing demand in part reflects a better understanding of mental health in our society, in part additional factors that are driving people to seek greater help for a potentially greater prevalence of mental health challenges, and a willingness to seek help that is actually a positive. This is also a result of our approach to provide more support in the community. We've seen an increase in the need for community-based services and we've seen a reduction in the number of people who need to be admitted to hospital.
In recognition of the increasing demand, we continue to spend more on mental health than any other part of our national health service. We continue to ring-fence mental health funding. In reality, we know that health boards spend more than the mental health ring fence, and since 2016-17, the increase in the ring fence has been 12.5 per cent. In the next financial year, the ring fence will be set at £679 million—a real and meaningful and sustained increase in funding. And that includes an additional £14.3 million of targeted investment to improve key priority areas, including child and adolescent mental health services, perinatal, psychological therapies, crisis and out-of-hours. And on crisis and out-of-hours services, this is a top priority for NHS Wales in the year ahead. It builds upon our previous work in establishing CAMHS crisis teams and adult psychiatric liaison services working at weekends and out-of-hours.
Now, I do understand and want to recognise and reiterate the comments about a parity of esteem between physical and mental health, and to restate our Government's commitment to achieving that—an equitable level of care, whether that be physical or mental health.
So, I welcome the continued focus upon mental health. I look forward to Members engaging in the next stage of 'Together for Mental Health' and the consultation it will have. We are committed to delivering real and sustainable improvements in services, experience and outcome. And we'll do so as rapidly as possible, in maintaining the quality of care that each of us would expect.
Credaf fod nifer o gwestiynau ychwanegol yno, Lywydd. Gallaf ddweud, fodd bynnag, ein bod eisoes wedi darparu data perfformiad. Caiff ei gyhoeddi, ac rwy'n fwy na pharod i ystyried eto os oes yna bethau y gallem eu gwneud yn y cyfamser. Ond fy nod yw cyhoeddi data rheolaidd ynghylch gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl sy'n wirioneddol ddefnyddiol, ac er mwyn gwneud hynny, mae'n rhaid iddo gynnwys ymgysylltu ag amrywiaeth o bobl wahanol. Byddai'n llawer gwell gennyf gael rhywbeth sy'n ddefnyddiol na rhywbeth sy'n gyfleus neu'n gyflym.
Nawr, canolbwyntiodd y cyd-adolygiad thematig ar dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol. Mae'n bwysig deall y galw cyffredinol am wasanaethau iechyd meddwl y cyfeiriwyd ato ar sawl achlysur yn y ddadl heddiw. Dengys data rheoli fod timau datrys argyfwng a thriniaeth yn y cartref wedi gweld cynnydd yn y nifer o atgyfeiriadau a nifer yr asesiadau yn ystod y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf. Yn y flwyddyn ddiwethaf yn unig, derbyniodd y gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl cymunedol oddeutu 20,000 o atgyfeiriadau ar gyfer asesiadau argyfwng, ac ar gyfartaledd, ceir mil o atgyfeiriadau ychwanegol bob mis at wasanaethau cymorth iechyd meddwl sylfaenol lleol o gymharu â 2013. O ran gweithgarwch, mae dros 200,000 o bobl wedi cael eu gweld gan wasanaethau iechyd meddwl sylfaenol lleol ers eu cyflwyno, gyda 100,000 o bobl yn cael ymyriadau therapiwtig. Mae'r galw cynyddol hwnnw yn rhannol yn adlewyrchu gwell dealltwriaeth o iechyd meddwl yn ein cymdeithas, ac yn rhannol y ffactorau ychwanegol sy'n ysgogi pobl i ofyn am fwy o gymorth ar gyfer nifer fwy, o bosibl, o achosion o heriau iechyd meddwl, a pharodrwydd i ofyn am help sy'n gadarnhaol mewn gwirionedd. Mae hyn hefyd yn ganlyniad i'n dull o ddarparu mwy o gymorth yn y gymuned. Gwelsom gynnydd yn yr angen am wasanaethau cymunedol, ac rydym wedi gweld gostyngiad yn nifer y bobl sydd angen eu derbyn i'r ysbyty.
I gydnabod y galw cynyddol, rydym yn parhau i wario mwy ar iechyd meddwl nag unrhyw ran arall o'n gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Rydym yn parhau i glustnodi cyllid ar gyfer iechyd meddwl. Mewn gwirionedd, gwyddom fod byrddau iechyd yn gwario mwy na'r hyn a glustnodwyd ar gyfer iechyd meddwl, ac ers 2016-17, mae cynnydd o 12.5 y cant wedi bod yn yr arian a glustnodwyd. Yn y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf, bydd yr arian a glustnodir yn £679 miliwn—cynnydd gwirioneddol ac ystyrlon a pharhaus yn y cyllid. Ac mae hynny'n cynnwys £14.3 miliwn ychwanegol o fuddsoddiad wedi'i dargedu ar gyfer gwella meysydd blaenoriaeth allweddol, gan gynnwys gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl ar gyfer plant a'r glasoed, therapïau seicolegol, amenedigol, argyfwng a'r tu allan i oriau. Ac ar wasanaethau argyfwng a thu allan i oriau, dyma un o brif flaenoriaethau GIG Cymru yn y flwyddyn i ddod. Mae'n adeiladu ar ein gwaith blaenorol yn sefydlu timau argyfwng CAMHS a gwasanaethau cyswllt seiciatrig i oedolion, sy'n gweithio ar benwythnosau a'r tu allan i oriau.
Nawr, rwy'n deall ac yn awyddus i gydnabod ac ailadrodd y sylwadau am barch cydradd rhwng iechyd corfforol ac iechyd meddwl, ac i ailddatgan ymrwymiad ein Llywodraeth i gyflawni hynny—lefel gyfartal o ofal, boed ar gyfer iechyd corfforol neu iechyd meddwl.
Felly, rwy'n croesawu'r pwyslais parhaus ar iechyd meddwl. Edrychaf ymlaen at ymgysylltiad yr Aelodau yn y cam nesaf o 'Law yn Llaw at Iechyd Meddwl' a'r ymgynghoriad cysylltiedig. Rydym wedi ymrwymo i gyflawni gwelliannau gwirioneddol a chynaliadwy yn y gwasanaethau, y profiadau a'r canlyniadau. A byddwn yn gwneud hynny cyn gynted â phosibl, er mwyn cynnal gofal o'r ansawdd y byddai pob un ohonom yn ei ddisgwyl.
Galwaf ar David Melding i ymateb i’r ddadl.
I call on David Melding to reply to the debate.
Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Can I say that Darren Millar started this debate by saying that mental health debates are amongst the best debates we have in the Assembly? And the Minister generously acknowledged the constructive tone of this debate, and I think we would all agree that it's been very meaningful and apposite. Darren also went on to talk about the personal stories that several AMs over the years have given in terms of their own mental health issues—myself included—and I think this is very important in terms of public figures, and particularly celebrities, when they do speak out. It does allow this whole issue to be demystified, and it's very, very important. Darren then went on to talk about the 'Time to Change' campaign, which, of course, has that type of objective at its heart. Then he talked about this debate being important because we often overlook the importance of community mental health teams and, in particular, he highlighted the need for 24-hour, seven-day crisis teams, which other Members, and also the Minister, referred to.
Helen Mary said that waiting times are a real problem, and I think it is appropriate that we focus on that. That data needs to be improved and we need to bring forward the deadline for the new scheme of data as soon as possible. And the Minister spent some time talking about that in this response.
Mohammad Asghar talked about the variability and inconsistency across Wales, which is a real challenge, I think—that we need to drive up standards in general and ensure that people get a really first-class service wherever they are in Wales.
David Rees talked about the need for a timely response to the HIW/CIW joint report, and he invited the Minister to say when the Government would respond. I'm afraid you'll have to be disappointed on this occasion, because you weren't quite told when that would be. Although, in fairness to the Minister, he did give some detail on the Government's approach. And then David talked about the place of family and carers in this, and often they don't even know how to contact the out-of-hours and crisis teams. That's a key failing.
Janet talked about the fact that all sorts of people present with mental health difficulties. We're all vulnerable. Most of us, subjected to certain factors, would probably suffer some form of mental distress or ill health. And that's really important. And then I thought she talked very appositely about the need for more mental health models in medical training, and I think all Members have been impressed with the points you made there.
Andrew R.T. said it's a bit like groundhog day: 2007, Jonathan Morgan wins the ballot. I've always been slightly suspicious of the phrase 'you win a ballot', but, anyway, his name was drawn, and he chose a mental health Measure. And I had the honour to chair the legislative oversight committee that looked at that. And it was really an important milestone, I think, in our work. And Andrew also talked about the value in political consensus on this.
Can I commend in general the Minister's response? I think he did try to tackle the main questions that were brought up—not to our full satisfaction necessarily in every case, but I don't think anything was avoided. The thematic report recognises that progress is being made, but the Government will be replying to each of the recommendations and then will develop a delivery plan. I think that's important. The work on the data set is continuing and must be robust. Clearly, the deadline has to reflect that, but we do need it as soon as possible.
He also acknowledged the need for out-of-hours and crisis teams to be a top priority and then made, I thought, a very important point. I will end on this, and I thank you for your indulgence, Presiding Officer. As demand is increasing, in large part because we now talk more about mental health and we are seeking to get more people to come forward, we are improving in primary and, in this case, community care teams the sort of help they can get. So, the fact that we are seeing an increase in demand really does, to some great degree, reflect that we are improving, at least in terms of general perception of the importance of coming forward and seeking help. With that, I conclude the debate.
Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. A gaf fi ddweud bod Darren Millar wedi dechrau'r ddadl hon drwy ddweud bod dadleuon iechyd meddwl ymhlith y dadleuon gorau a gawn yn y Cynulliad? A bu'r Gweinidog yn hael wrth gydnabod naws adeiladol y ddadl hon, a chredaf y byddem oll yn cytuno iddi fod yn ddadl ystyrlon a phriodol iawn. Aeth Darren ymlaen i siarad hefyd am y straeon personol a roddwyd gan nifer o ACau dros y blynyddoedd mewn perthynas â'u problemau iechyd meddwl eu hunain—fy hun yn eu plith—a chredaf ei bod hi'n bwysig iawn i bobl gyhoeddus, ac enwogion yn enwedig, i siarad allan. Mae'n caniatáu inni chwalu'r mythau sydd ynghlwm wrth y mater, ac mae hynny'n bwysig tu hwnt. Aeth Darren ymlaen wedyn i siarad am yr ymgyrch 'Amser i Newid', sydd, wrth gwrs, â'r math hwnnw o amcan wrth ei wraidd. Yna siaradodd am bwysigrwydd y ddadl hon gan ein bod yn aml yn anwybyddu pwysigrwydd timau iechyd meddwl cymunedol ac yn benodol, tynnodd sylw at yr angen am dimau argyfwng 24 awr y dydd, saith diwrnod yr wythnos, y cyfeiriodd Aelodau eraill a'r Gweinidog ato hefyd.
Dywedodd Helen Mary fod amseroedd aros yn broblem go iawn, a chredaf ei bod yn briodol inni ganolbwyntio ar hynny. Mae angen gwella'r data hwnnw ac mae angen inni sicrhau bod y terfyn amser ar gyfer y cynllun data newydd yn digwydd cyn gynted â phosibl. A threuliodd y Gweinidog beth amser yn sôn am hynny yn yr ymateb hwn.
Soniodd Mohammad Asghar am yr amrywioldeb a'r anghysondeb ar draws Cymru, sy'n her go iawn, rwy'n credu—fod angen inni godi safonau yn gyffredinol a sicrhau bod pobl yn cael gwasanaeth o'r radd flaenaf lle bynnag maent yng Nghymru.
Soniodd David Rees am yr angen am ymateb amserol i gyd-adroddiad AGIC/AGC, a gwahoddodd y Gweinidog i ddweud pryd y byddai'r Llywodraeth yn ymateb. Mae arnaf ofn y bydd yn rhaid eich siomi ar yr achlysur hwn oherwydd ni chawsoch wybod yn union pa bryd fyddai hynny'n digwydd. Er hynny, er tegwch i'r Gweinidog, fe roddodd rai manylion ynglŷn â dull y Llywodraeth o weithredu. Ac yna siaradodd David am le teulu a gofalwyr yn hyn, ac yn aml nid ydynt hyd yn oed yn gwybod sut i gysylltu â'r timau argyfwng a thu allan i oriau. Mae hwnnw'n fethiant allweddol.
Soniodd Janet am y ffaith bod gan bob math o bobl anawsterau iechyd meddwl. Mae pawb ohonom yn agored i niwed. Byddai'r rhan fwyaf ohonom, o orfod wynebau ffactorau penodol, yn debygol o ddioddef rhyw ffurf ar drallod meddwl neu salwch meddwl. Ac mae hynny'n wirioneddol bwysig. Ac yna fe siaradodd yn briodol iawn yn fy marn i am yr angen am fwy o fodelau iechyd meddwl mewn hyfforddiant meddygol, a chredaf fod y pwyntiau a wnaethoch yno wedi creu argraff ar bob un o'r Aelodau.
Dywedodd Andrew R.T. ei bod hi braidd fel pe baem wedi bod yma o'r blaen: 2007, Jonathan Morgan yn ennill y balot. Rwyf bob tro braidd yn amheus o'r ymadrodd eich bod yn 'ennill balot', ond beth bynnag, cafodd ei enw ei ddewis, a dewisodd Fesur iechyd meddwl. A chefais y fraint o gadeirio'r pwyllgor trosolwg deddfwriaethol a edrychodd ar hynny. Ac roedd yn garreg filltir wirioneddol bwysig mewn gwirionedd yn ein gwaith. A soniodd Andrew hefyd am werth consensws gwleidyddol yn hyn o beth.
A gaf fi gymeradwyo ymateb y Gweinidog at ei gilydd? Credaf iddo geisio mynd i'r afael â'r prif gwestiynau a godwyd—nid er boddhad llwyr i ni o reidrwydd ym mhob achos, ond ni chredaf iddo osgoi unrhyw beth. Mae'r cyd-adroddiad thematig yn cydnabod bod cynnydd yn cael ei wneud, ond bydd y Llywodraeth yn ymateb i bob un o'r argymhellion ac yna bydd yn datblygu cynllun cyflawni. Credaf fod hynny'n bwysig. Mae gwaith ar y set ddata'n parhau a rhaid iddo fod yn drylwyr. Yn amlwg, mae'n rhaid i'r terfyn amser adlewyrchu hynny, ond rydym ei angen cyn gynted â phosibl.
Cydnabu hefyd fod angen i dimau argyfwng a thu allan i oriau fod yn brif flaenoriaeth ac yna fe wnaeth bwynt pwysig iawn yn fy marn i. Fe fyddaf yn gorffen gyda hyn, a diolch i chi am eich amynedd, Lywydd. Wrth i'r galw gynyddu, i raddau helaeth am ein bod bellach yn siarad mwy am iechyd meddwl ac rydym yn ceisio cael mwy o bobl i ofyn am gymorth, rydym yn gwella'r math o gymorth y gallant ei gael gan y timau gofal sylfaenol, ac yn yr achos hwn, y timau gofal cymunedol. Felly, mae'r ffaith ein bod yn gweld cynnydd yn y galw yn dangos i raddau helaeth ein bod yn gwella, o leiaf o ran y canfyddiad cyffredinol o bwysigrwydd gofyn am gymorth. Gyda hynny, rwy'n dod â'r ddadl i ben.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Rwy'n gohirio'r bleidlais felly tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting until voting time.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
Daw hynny â ni at y cyfnod pleidleisio. Oni bai bod tri Aelod eisiau i fi ganu'r gloch, rwy'n symud i'r bleidlais gyntaf. Mae'r bleidlais gyntaf ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad. Rwy'n galw am bleidlais ar y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw Jayne Bryant. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 48, un yn ymatal, un yn erbyn. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig.
That brings us to voting time. Unless three Members wish for the bell to the rung, I will proceed directly to the first vote. The first vote is on the Standards of Conduct Committee report, and I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Jayne Bryant. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 48, one abstention, one against. Therefore, the motion is agreed.
NDM7032 - Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad - Adroddiad 01-19 a osodwyd gerbron y Cynulliad ar 1 Ebrill 2019 yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 22.9: O blaid: 48, Yn erbyn: 1, Ymatal: 1
Derbyniwyd y cynnig
NDM7032 - Debate on the Standards of Conduct Committee's Report 01-19 to the Assembly under Standing Order 22.9: For: 48, Against: 1, Abstain: 1
Motion has been agreed
Mae'r bleidlais nesaf ar y ddadl ar gynnig deddfwriaethol gan Aelod unigol. Mae'r cynnig yma wedi'i gyflwyno yn enw Bethan Sayed. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 29, 18 yn ymatal, dau yn erbyn. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig.
The next vote is on the debate on a Member’s legislative proposal. This motion was tabled in the name of Bethan Sayed. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 29, 18 abstentions, two against. Therefore, the motion is agreed.
NDM7021 - Dadl ar Gynnig Deddfwriaethol gan Aelod: O blaid: 29, Yn erbyn: 2, Ymatal: 18
Derbyniwyd y cynnig
NDM7021 - Debate on a Member's Legislative Proposal - Child Victims of Sexual Abuse: For: 29, Against: 2, Abstain: 18
Motion has been agreed
Yr eitem nesaf o bleidleisio yw dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ar dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol, ac rwy'n galw am bleidlais ar y cynnig, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 15, neb yn ymatal, 35 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd y cynnig.
The next item is a vote on the Welsh Conservatives’ debate on community health teams, and I call for a vote on the motion, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 15, no abstentions, 35 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed.
NDM7028 - Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 15, Yn erbyn: 35, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig
NDM7028 - Welsh Conservatives Debate - Motion without amendment: For: 15, Against: 35, Abstain: 0
Motion has been rejected
Mae'r bleidlais nesaf ar welliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 27, saith yn ymatal, 15 yn erbyn. Felly, derbyniwyd y gwelliant.
The next vote is a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 27, seven abstentions, 15 against. Therefore, the amendment is agreed.
NDM7028 - Gwelliant 1: O blaid: 27, Yn erbyn: 15, Ymatal: 7
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant
NDM7028 - Amendment 1: For: 27, Against: 15, Abstain: 7
Amendment has been agreed
Gwelliant 2—galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 2, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 22, neb yn ymatal, 28 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd gwelliant 2.
Amendment 2—I call for a vote on amendment 2, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 22, no abstentions, 28 against. Therefore, amendment 2 is not agreed.
NDM7028 - Gwelliant 2: O blaid: 22, Yn erbyn: 28, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
NDM7028 - Amendment 2: For: 22, Against: 28, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been rejected
Gwelliant 3—pleidlais ar welliant 3, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 49, neb yn ymatal, un yn erbyn. Felly, derbyniwyd gwelliant 3.
Amendment 3—a vote on amendment 3, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 49, no abstentions, one against. Therefore, amendment 3 is agreed.
NDM7028 - Gwelliant 3: O blaid: 49, Yn erbyn: 1, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant
NDM7028 - Amendment 3: For: 49, Against: 1, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been agreed
Pleidlais nawr ar y cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio.
A vote on the motion as amended.
Cynnig NDM7028 fel y'i diwygiwyd:
Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:
1. Yn nodi Cyd Adolygiad Thematig Arolygiaeth Iechyd Cymru ac Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru o Dimau Iechyd Meddwl Cymunedol.
2. Yn nodi ymhellach y nifer gynyddol o atgyfeiriadau i'r timau iechyd meddwl cymunedol ledled Cymru.
3. Yn cydnabod yr angen i sicrhau cydraddoldeb rhwng gwasanaethau iechyd y corff a gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl;
4. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i wella’r cymorth a ddarperir gan dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol a gwella’r mynediad at y cymorth hwnnw, gan gynnwys:
a) parhau i gynyddu’r gwariant ar wasanaethau iechyd meddwl mewn termau real bob blwyddyn hyd at ddiwedd tymor y Cynulliad, yn dibynnu ar ganlyniad yr adolygiad o wariant yn 2019;
b) sicrhau bod trefniadau ar waith i ymateb i argyfyngau iechyd meddwl bob awr o bob dydd ym mhob un o’r adrannau achosion brys mawr;
c) gweithio ar frys gyda’r byrddau iechyd i wella cyfleusterau iechyd meddwl cymunedol ar gyfer defnyddwyr y gwasanaeth a staff; a
d) codi ymwybyddiaeth ynghylch mynediad at dimau iechyd meddwl cymunedol fel y gall defnyddwyr y gwasanaeth gael y cyngor gorau posibl.
e) sicrhau bod timau iechyd meddwl cymunedol yn cysylltu â gwasanaethau hawliau lles i amddiffyn pobl sy'n agored i niwed yn erbyn asesiadau'r adran gwaith a phensiynau a phrosesau gwneud penderfyniad sydd yn aml yn gwaethygu cyflyrau iechyd meddwl.
Motion NDM7028 as amended:
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:
1. Notes the Health Inspectorate Wales and Care Inspectorate Wales Joint Thematic Review of Community Mental Health Teams.
2. Further notes the increasing number of referrals to community mental health teams across Wales.
3. Recognises the need to ensure parity between physical and mental health services;
4.Calls on the Welsh Government to improve the support provided by and access to community mental health teams, including:
a) continuing to increase spending on mental health services in real terms each and every year until the end of the Assembly term, subject to the outcome of the 2019 spending review;
b) ensuring arrangements are in place to respond to mental health crisis 24/7 in all major emergency departments;
c) urgently working with health boards to improve community mental health facilities for service users and staff; and
d) raising awareness over access to community mental health teams so service users can get the best advice possible.
e) ensuring that community mental health teams liaise with welfare rights services to protect vulnerable people against DWP assessments and decision making processes that can often exacerbate mental health conditions.
Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 46, neb yn ymatal, pedwar yn erbyn. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio.
Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 46, no abstentions, four against. Therefore, the motion as amended is agreed.
NDM7028 - Cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio: O blaid: 46, Yn erbyn: 4, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd
NDM7028 - Motion as amended: For: 46, Against: 4, Abstain: 0
Motion as amended has been agreed
A wnaiff Aelodau sy'n gadael y Siambr—os ydych chi'n gadael—wneud hynny'n dawel ac yn gyflym?
I ask Members leaving the Chamber—if you are leaving the Chamber—to do so quietly and quickly.
If Members can do their chit-chatting outside the Chamber, we're about to move on to the short debate.
Os gall yr Aelodau wneud eu mân siarad y tu allan i'r Siambr, rydym ar fin symud ymlaen at y ddadl fer.
I call the short debate in the name of Caroline Jones.
Galwaf y ddadl fer yn enw Caroline Jones.
Diolch, Llywydd. Next to issues with the NHS, the vast majority of my postbag consists of issues with social housing. Consistent issues with housing associations has led me to question who benefits from social housing. In my experience, it certainly isn't the tenant. When social housing was provided by local councils, they weren't driven by profits and, for the most part, responded to the needs of their tenants.
When the wholesale transfer of council housing took place at the start of this decade and led to the creation of housing associations, it was supposed to herald a new era for social housing. Housing stock would be updated and maintained, and operating profits would be ploughed back into creating new housing stock, putting an end to five to 10-year waits for social housing. Unfortunately, this grand vision hasn't come to pass. Some parts of Wales have seen slight increases in housing stock, while others have seen decreases. We should have been building between 3,000 and 4,000 new social housing units a year. Over the last 10 years, only 6,000 new social housing units have been built.
The quality of social housing has also not significantly improved. Less than 64 per cent of social housing is fully compliant with the Welsh housing quality standard. Almost 10 per cent is non-compliant: 21,000 families forced to live in housing deemed unfit. With all of this in mind, it is unsurprising that I have been inundated with complaints about the registered social landlords in my region. And the worst culprit I may name is Tai Tarian.
Tai Tarian, formally Neath Port Talbot Homes, was created following the transfer of 9,200 council houses from Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council in 2011. Tai Tarian currently manages 8,978 properties. Last year, they announced the development of 37 new homes, 10 of which were being built upon a sheltered housing site consisting of 20 properties. Fourteen per cent of their properties are not fully compliant with the Welsh quality housing standard. Constituents have contacted me complaining about the length of time it takes to have repairs done. One constituent was told they would have to wait three years for repairs. And constituents have contacted me complaining about rising rents. Constituents have contacted me complaining about draconian increases in maintenance fees.
In Hogan House, in Aberavon, a couple of the flats are privately owned. Tai Tarian are demanding over £6,000 from each of the residents for updates to Hogan House. How on earth is someone surviving on a meagre state pension supposed to find thousands of pounds they haven't budgeted for? For goodness' sake, this is a small flat, purchased by someone who sacrificed annual holidays and many other luxuries that some of us take for granted in order to own their own home. They are now being told that if they don't like it, they can either leave or sell their flat to Tai Tarian. And the cynic in me wonders if that's not the aim of the exercise: to bully private owners into leaving.
Constituents have contacted me complaining about the failure to tackle anti-social behaviour, and I've been informed by two residents that they were attacked, separately. Rather than moving the problem tenant, the housing association asked if the victims would like to move.
Constituents have contacted me complaining about the state of their properties following so-called improvements. One constituent got in touch to complain that the removal of balconies from the block of flats left their property in a dangerous state. And residents had complained to Tai Tarian, asking for the installation of safety barriers to prevent someone falling to their death. And twice Tai Tarian has ignored these requests.
Over and over, tenants have told me that Tai Tarian have been obstructive, objectionable and oftentimes downright abusive. I have been calling on the leadership at Tai Tarian since last year to furnish me with copies of their training records for front-line staff in order to ascertain what training they receive with regard to treating tenants with dignity and respect—something that we uphold in this Chamber. To date, I have been met with radio silence.
In contrast, I had an issue with Coastal Housing that was handled completely differently by that organisation. One of my constituents had complained about the lack of disabled access caused by the lack of maintenance—overgrown brambles and excessive pavement drops were severely limiting wheelchair access. On a walk through, I also witnessed hundreds of discarded petrol, oil and anti-freeze containers. When I submitted the photographic evidence to Coastal Housing, the issues were quickly resolved. However, it shouldn't have taken the intervention of a politician for tenants to get their issues resolved, but at least Coastal Housing acted, unlike Tai Tarian.
All the while this has been going on, Tai Tarian made a profit £5.8 million. Of course, they don't call it profit; it's an 'operating surplus'. But that's after you factor in the directors' pay: the chief executive earns more than the First Minister and the senior directors earn more than twice the salary of a GP.
So, I ask you who benefits from social housing. It's supposed to be the tenants, it's supposed to be those desperately in need of housing and it's supposed to be young people living in poverty. Instead, all my constituents see is social housing being used to enrich a few people at the expense of everyone else.
Registered social landlords operating as not-for-profit organisations have the potential to help reduce poverty by ensuring a ready supply of high-quality housing that is energy efficient and thereby guarantees cheaper rents and lower fuel bills. Many registered social landlords do this and so much more, but not all are so well run and not all housing associations treat their tenants with the dignity and respect that they deserve, and not enough of them put the needs of these tenants first.
This has to change. We are facing a housing crisis of epic proportions over the coming decades, and we can't afford for housing associations to do the bare minimum. The Welsh Government must impose a set of requirements upon registered social landlords to ensure that they improve existing housing stock and build the 3,000 to 4,000 new homes needed each year and every year, whilst not exploiting existing tenants.
It's high time that the tenants were the sole beneficiaries of social housing. I ask Tai Tarian, please, to look at the way that they are treating these tenants. These tenants are on basic minimum wages, salaries and so on, and they deserve dignity and respect, which they're not receiving, and so many have contacted me that it can't be just one or two. Thank you.
Diolch, Lywydd. Ochr yn ochr â materion yn ymwneud â'r GIG, mae'r rhan fwyaf o fy mag post yn cynnwys materion yn ymwneud â thai cymdeithasol. Mae problemau cyson gyda chymdeithasau tai wedi fy arwain i holi pwy sy'n elwa o dai cymdeithasol. Yn fy mhrofiad i, yn sicr nid yw'r tenant yn elwa. Pan oedd tai cymdeithasol yn cael eu darparu gan gynghorau lleol, nid elw oedd yn eu gyrru, ac ar y cyfan, roeddent yn ymateb i anghenion eu tenantiaid.
Pan gafodd tai cyngor eu trosglwyddo ar raddfa eang ar ddechrau'r degawd hwn gan arwain at greu cymdeithasau tai, roedd i fod yn ddechrau cyfnod newydd ar dai cymdeithasol. Byddai'r stoc dai'n cael ei diweddaru a'i chynnal, ac elw gweithredu'n cael ei ailfuddsoddi i greu stoc dai newydd, gan roi diwedd ar y rhestrau aros o bump i 10 mlynedd am dai cymdeithasol. Yn anffodus, ni wireddwyd y weledigaeth fawr hon. Gwelodd rhai rhannau o Gymru gynnydd bychan yn y stoc dai, tra bod eraill wedi gweld y stoc dai'n lleihau. Dylem fod wedi bod yn adeiladu rhwng 3,000 a 4,000 o unedau tai cymdeithasol newydd bob blwyddyn. Dros y 10 mlynedd diwethaf, dim ond 6,000 o unedau tai cymdeithasol newydd a adeiladwyd.
Nid yw ansawdd tai cymdeithasol wedi gwella'n sylweddol ychwaith. Mae llai na 64 y cant o dai cymdeithasol yn cydymffurfio'n llawn â safon ansawdd tai Cymru. Mae bron 10 y cant yn methu cydymffurfio: 21,000 o deuluoedd sy'n gorfod byw mewn tai y bernir eu bod yn anaddas. Gyda hyn oll mewn golwg, nid yw'n syndod fy mod yn cael llu o gwynion am landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig yn fy rhanbarth. A'r tramgwyddwr gwaethaf rwyf am ei enwi yw Tai Tarian.
Crëwyd Tai Tarian, Cartrefi Castell-nedd Port Talbot yn ffurfiol, yn dilyn trosglwyddo 9,200 o dai cyngor gan Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Castell-nedd Port Talbot yn 2011. Mae Tai Tarian ar hyn o bryd yn rheoli 8,978 eiddo. Y llynedd, cyhoeddasant eu bod yn datblygu 37 o gartrefi newydd, gyda 10 ohonynt yn cael eu hadeiladu ar safle tai gwarchod sy'n cynnwys 20 eiddo. Nid yw 14 y cant o'u heiddo'n cydymffurfio'n llawn â safon ansawdd tai Cymru. Mae etholwyr wedi cysylltu â mi yn cwyno ynglŷn â faint o amser y mae'n ei gymryd i gael gwaith atgyweirio wedi'i wneud. Dywedwyd wrth un etholwr y byddai'n rhaid iddynt aros am dair blynedd am waith atgyweirio. Ac mae etholwyr wedi cysylltu â mi yn cwyno am renti cynyddol. Mae etholwyr wedi cysylltu â mi yn cwyno ynglŷn â'r codiadau didostur yn y ffioedd cynnal a chadw.
Yn Hogan House, yn Aberafan, mae un neu ddau o'r fflatiau mewn dwylo preifat. Mae Tai Tarian yn mynnu dros £6,000 gan bob un o'r trigolion am waith ailwampio ar Hogan House. Sut ar y ddaear y mae rhywun sy'n byw ar bensiwn pitw'r wladwriaeth i fod i ddod o hyd i filoedd o bunnoedd nad ydynt wedi cyllidebu ar ei gyfer? Er mwyn popeth, fflat bach yw hwn, a brynwyd gan rywun a aberthodd wyliau blynyddol a llawer o foethau eraill y bydd rhai ohonom yn eu cymryd yn ganiataol er mwyn bod yn berchen ar eu cartref eu hunain. Dywedir wrthynt yn awr os nad ydynt yn hoffi hynny, gallant naill ai adael neu werthu eu fflat i Tai Tarian. Ac mae'r sinig ynof yn meddwl tybed ai dyna yw'r nod: bwlio perchnogion preifat i adael.
Mae etholwyr wedi cysylltu â mi yn cwyno am fethiant i fynd i'r afael ag ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol, a chlywais gan ddau o'r trigolion fod rhywun wedi ymosod arnynt, ar wahân. Yn hytrach na symud y tenant problemus, gofynnodd y gymdeithas dai os hoffai'r dioddefwyr symud.
Mae etholwyr wedi cysylltu â mi yn cwyno am gyflwr eu heiddo yn sgil gwelliannau honedig. Cysylltodd un etholwr â mi i gwyno bod cael gwared ar y balconïau oddi ar y bloc o fflatiau wedi gadael eu heiddo mewn cyflwr peryglus. Ac roedd preswylwyr wedi cwyno wrth Tai Tarian, yn gofyn am osod rhwystrau diogelwch i atal rhywun rhag syrthio i'w marwolaeth. A ddwywaith, anwybyddodd Tai Tarian y ceisiadau hyn.
Drosodd a throsodd, mae tenantiaid wedi dweud wrthyf fod Tai Tarian wedi bod yn rhwystrol, yn annymunol ac yn aml iawn yn gwbl sarhaus. Rwyf wedi bod yn gofyn i arweinwyr Tai Tarian ers y llynedd am gopïau o'u cofnodion hyfforddi ar gyfer staff rheng flaen er mwyn canfod pa hyfforddiant y maent yn ei gael mewn perthynas â thrin tenantiaid ag urddas a pharch—rhywbeth yr ydym yn cydymffurfio ag ef yn y Siambr hon. Hyd yma, ni chefais unrhyw fath o ymateb.
Mewn cyferbyniad, cododd problem gyda Coastal Housing a gafodd ei thrin yn hollol wahanol gan y sefydliad hwnnw. Roedd un o fy etholwyr wedi cwyno am y diffyg mynediad i'r anabl a achoswyd gan ddiffyg gwaith cynnal a chadw—roedd mieri wedi tyfu'n wyllt a phalmentydd rhy uchel yn cyfyngu ar fynediad i gadeiriau olwyn. Wrth gerdded trwodd, gwelais gannoedd o hen gynwysyddion petrol, olew a hylif gwrth-rewi. Pan gyflwynais dystiolaeth ffotograffig i Coastal Housing, cafodd y problemau eu datrys yn gyflym. Fodd bynnag, ni ddylai fod wedi cymryd ymyrraeth gan wleidydd i denantiaid gael eu problemau wedi'u datrys, ond o leiaf fe wnaeth Coastal Housing weithredu, yn wahanol i Tai Tarian.
Tra oedd hyn yn digwydd, gwnaeth Tai Tarian elw o £5.8 miliwn. Wrth gwrs, nid ydynt yn ei alw'n elw; 'gwarged gweithredu' ydyw. Ond mae hynny ar ôl ichi ystyried cyflog y cyfarwyddwyr: mae'r prif weithredwr yn ennill mwy na'r Prif Weinidog a'r uwch gyfarwyddwyr yn ennill mwy na dwywaith cyflog meddyg teulu.
Felly, gofynnaf i chi pwy sy'n elwa o dai cymdeithasol. Y tenantiaid sydd i fod i elwa, y rhai sydd mewn angen dybryd am dai, a phobl ifanc sy'n byw mewn tlodi. Yn lle hynny, y cyfan y mae fy etholwyr yn ei weld yw tai cymdeithasol yn cael eu defnyddio i wneud ychydig o bobl yn gyfoethog ar draul pawb arall.
Mae gan landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig sy'n gweithredu fel sefydliadau dielw botensial i helpu i leihau tlodi drwy sicrhau cyflenwad parod o dai o ansawdd uchel sy'n effeithlon o ran eu defnydd o ynni ac sydd felly'n gwarantu rhenti rhatach a biliau tanwydd is. Mae llawer o landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig yn gwneud hyn a chymaint mwy, ond nid yw'r cyfan yn cael eu gweithredu cystal ac nid yw pob cymdeithas dai yn trin eu tenantiaid gyda'r urddas a'r parch y maent yn eu haeddu, ac nid oes digon ohonynt yn rhoi anghenion y tenantiaid hyn yn gyntaf.
Rhaid i hyn newid. Rydym yn wynebu argyfwng tai anferthol dros y degawdau nesaf, ac ni allwn fforddio gweld cymdeithasau tai yn gwneud cyn lleied. Rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru osod set o ofynion ar landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig i sicrhau eu bod yn gwella'r stoc dai bresennol ac yn adeiladu'r 3,000 i 4,000 o gartrefi newydd sydd eu hangen bob blwyddyn, heb gamfanteisio ar denantiaid presennol.
Mae'n hen bryd sicrhau mai tenantiaid yn unig sy'n cael budd o dai cymdeithasol. Gofynnaf i Tai Tarian, os gwelwch yn dda, i edrych ar y ffordd y maent yn trin y tenantiaid hyn. Yr isafswm cyflog a thâl sylfaenol ac ati y mae'r tenantiaid hyn yn ei gael, ac maent yn haeddu urddas a pharch, ac nid ydynt yn eu cael, ac mae cynifer ohonynt wedi cysylltu â mi fel na all fod yn un neu ddau achos yn unig. Diolch.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair.
The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.
Thank you. Can I now call on the Minister for Housing and Local Government to reply to the debate? Julie James.
Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar y Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol i ymateb i'r ddadl? Julie James.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I very much welcome the opportunity to look at the importance of social housing and its benefits here in the Chamber today. It's not often I disagree with a Member who's bringing forward a short debate, but I found myself disagreeing quite vehemently with much of what Caroline Jones said. I'm sure she has the individual caseload that she mentions, and there are ways of dealing with that, but the general remarks that she made about the conclusions she draws from her caseload for this sector I very much disagree with.
I firmly believe that, in answer to the question posed in the title of the debate, all of society benefits from social housing. We all benefit from a vibrant, successful social housing system where as many families as possible have access to a safe, warm home and communities are integrated. We all benefit from having homes that would otherwise be out of reach for some of the most vulnerable families, older people and disabled people.
Caroline Jones mentioned a couple of statistics at the beginning of her contribution, which I just wanted to pick up on. First of all, the stock transfer arrangements did not lead to the creation of housing associations—many housing associations have been around for an awful lot longer than that. It did, of course, lead to the creation of some housing associations, which are the ones that received the stock transfer.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n croesawu'n fawr y cyfle i edrych ar bwysigrwydd tai cymdeithasol a'i fanteision yma yn y Siambr heddiw. Nid yn aml y byddaf yn anghytuno ag Aelod sy'n cyflwyno dadl fer, ond cefais fy hun yn anghytuno'n chwyrn iawn â llawer o'r hyn a ddywedodd Caroline Jones. Rwy'n siŵr fod ganddi'r llwyth achosion unigol y mae'n sôn amdano, ac mae ffyrdd o ymdrin â hynny, ond rwy'n anghytuno'n gryf â'r sylwadau cyffredinol a wnaeth am y casgliadau y daw iddynt o'i llwyth achosion yn y sector.
I ateb y cwestiwn yn nheitl y ddadl, rwy'n credu'n gryf fod y gymdeithas gyfan yn elwa ar dai cymdeithasol. Rydym i gyd yn elwa ar system dai cymdeithasol fywiog, lwyddiannus lle mae gan gymaint o deuluoedd â phosibl fynediad at gartref diogel, cynnes a lle mae cymunedau wedi'u hintegreiddio. Rydym i gyd yn elwa ar gael cartrefi a fyddai fel arall y tu hwnt i gyrraedd rhai o'r teuluoedd mwyaf agored i niwed, pobl hŷn a phobl anabl.
Soniodd Caroline Jones am ychydig o ystadegau ar ddechrau ei chyfraniad, ac roeddwn am fynd ar eu trywydd. Yn gyntaf oll, ni wnaeth y trefniadau trosglwyddo stoc arwain at greu cymdeithasau tai—mae llawer o gymdeithasau tai wedi bodoli ers llawer mwy o amser na hynny. Fe wnaeth arwain, wrth gwrs, at greu rhai cymdeithasau tai, sef y rhai a dderbyniodd y trosglwyddiad stoc.
In terms of the Welsh housing quality standard, we have 91 per cent compliance so far with that, and we're not yet at the end of the programme. It's important to remember that we would not expect to be 100 per cent compliant before the end of the programme for that. And actually, compliance in the housing association sector is at near blanket. So, I just wanted to put right a couple of the statistics there, and some of the expectations from that.
There are obviously areas where we may be able to get more homes from our investment in housing, which is why we commissioned the affordable housing supplier review last year, and the recommendations for that will be coming forward in April. And there are other reasons associated with why we haven't been able to build council housing or affordable social housing as fast as we would like, which have been rehearsed in this Chamber already, but I will just mention them again, which were the arrangements relating to the way that the housing revenue accounts were controlled. The removal of the cap has meant that we've been able to send out different arrangements to each of the local housing authorities that have got housing revenue accounts, and to have a discussion with those councils that don't have housing revenue accounts about the best way to take social housing forward. So, I think the picture is a great deal more nuanced than Caroline Jones's contribution might have led you to believe.
I just want to talk a little bit more about why we think that social housing should be and is our top priority. It provides not only quality homes but the support needed to ensure people can sustain their tenancies and thrive. It positively impacts on health, mental health and education, which is why Wales never moved away from support for social housing, not since the Assembly came into existence.
We recognise that social housing requires a greater level of Government subsidy, and we're comfortable with this. We support those for whom our investment can have the greatest impact. That investment can also potentially reduce the cost to the taxpayer in other areas. So, we've driven the standards up in social housing. The Welsh quality housing standard ensures, for example, a category D insulation standard, and in the next iteration of the Welsh housing quality standard, we will be looking to raise that to A. So, there was no way to transform the stock overnight from where it was to A, but we will have a second tranche of that in which we will be discussing raising that standard.
The new build for houses built by local housing associations, which were the only people who were able to build them until the change I just mentioned, Deputy Presiding Officer, have made sure that all the new homes reach their standard by 2020, and all existing stock will reach it by 2036. Sorry, my eyesight's bad. It's 2036. I thought it said 2038.
So, I just want to belay the suggestion that Caroline Jones appeared to me to be making, that social housing is somehow substandard, and so on, because it most certainly is not. During the relatively short time I've been Minister for Housing and Local Government, I've seen first-hand just how important secure, good-quality housing is to the health and well-being of the communities we serve.
Our integration agenda is supported by £105 million of the integrated care fund, aiming to improve public services by making collaborative working an explicit requirement for local authorities and health boards, while allowing the space for innovation. While the fund is beginning to support accommodation-led solutions to social care alongside housing and health capital programmes, we are supporting it to move towards developing a more scalable strategic programme of capital investment that has housing at its core. I want to see this accommodation-led approach embedded in the models of care we develop for people and vulnerable groups. I did agree with Caroline Jones that vulnerable groups need specialist accommodation, and that is exactly what we're aiming our integrated care fund at.
You will all be aware that, as a Government, we committed to delivering 20,000 additional affordable homes during this Assembly term. Homes for social rent will make up the largest proportion of that target, although I recognise that there is a need for additional homes right across Wales. We've invested heavily in social housing and in housing more generally in this term, but we don't have limitless resources. We must think creatively about how we can achieve more from our investment and this is something I've challenged my officials to do. The challenge is also central to the independent affordable housing supplier review we commissioned, which will report at the end of April.
One area where I am convinced that we can see an increase in the delivery of social housing is through local authorities building again, and in that regard I do agree with Caroline Jones. I do think there is a need for local housing authorities to start to build social homes again. Now that that borrowing cap that was imposed by the UK Government has been abolished in Wales, authorities can and will start building again. I've had very good conversations across Wales with local authorities eager and willing to do just that. They can have access to very long-term low-cost finance through the Public Works Loan Board, which I'll be encouraging them to leverage to kick-start ambitious council house building projects across Wales.
I also recognise that there are aspects of the way we utilise our social housing stock that are not perfect across Wales. I've been clear that my ambition is for us to build enough high-quality social housing so that everyone who wants to can access it. Until then, we have to do the best we can to ensure we make the best possible use of our social housing to meet the needs of those who need it most.
Evicting families from social housing, especially in local authorities who are social housing landlords, makes no sense. Once a family has been made homeless, they are likely to be moved into less secure accommodation or even temporary accommodation, which in the worst-case scenario could be a bed-and-breakfast hotel. The authorities have a duty to support families to prevent homelessness or relieve it where it cannot be prevented. True prevention means supporting families to make a success of their tenancies and remain in their communities. This is what we should be trying to achieve, and this is the point I'll be strongly emphasising to local authorities. This is a conversation I will also be having with housing associations.
So, Caroline Jones mentioned a couple of specifics in her case load that I would very much welcome her sending to me, because I would like to look in more detail at the specifics. But in general, looking to evict somebody who's committing anti-social behaviour is not the way forward. The way forward is to address the anti-social behaviour and contain it and allow the family to continue with their tenancy. So, just to be clear, I think we're not quite on the same page on some of those.
In these uncertain times, with Brexit unresolved, we remain committed to ensuring that social housing continues to be a priority of Wales. I know from a recent debate that many of us across the floor share the same aspirations for social housing and I'm open to working with Members on this agenda.
So, to conclude, Deputy Presiding Officer, good-quality social housing is the foundation for strong families and communities, the foundation for good health, and the foundation for a good education. This Government will continue to support this vital asset that benefits all of us. Diolch.
O ran safon ansawdd tai Cymru, mae 91 y cant yn cydymffurfio â honno hyd yma, ac nid ydym ar ddiwedd y rhaglen eto. Mae'n bwysig cofio na fyddem yn disgwyl 100 y cant o gydymffurfiaeth cyn diwedd y rhaglen ar gyfer hynny. Ac mewn gwirionedd, mae lefel cydymffurfiaeth y sector cymdeithasau tai bron yn 100 y cant. Felly, roeddwn am gywiro ychydig o'r ystadegau yno, a rhai o'r disgwyliadau o hynny.
Yn amlwg, ceir ardaloedd lle gallem gael mwy o gartrefi o'n buddsoddiad mewn tai, a dyna pam y comisiynwyd yr adolygiad o gyflenwyr tai fforddiadwy gennym y llynedd, a bydd yr argymhellion ar ei gyfer yn cael eu cyflwyno ym mis Ebrill. Ac mae yna resymau eraill sy'n gysylltiedig â pham nad ydym wedi gallu adeiladu tai cyngor neu dai cymdeithasol fforddiadwy cyn gyflymed ag y byddem wedi hoffi gwneud, rhesymau a ailadroddwyd yn y Siambr hon eisoes, ond fe soniaf amdanynt eto, sef y trefniadau'n ymwneud â'r ffordd y rheolwyd y cyfrifon refeniw tai. Mae cael gwared ar y cap wedi golygu ein bod wedi gallu anfon trefniadau gwahanol at bob un o'r awdurdodau tai lleol sydd â chyfrifon refeniw tai, ac i gael trafodaeth gyda'r cynghorau nad oes ganddynt gyfrifon refeniw tai ynglŷn â'r ffordd orau o symud ymlaen ar fater tai cymdeithasol. Felly, credaf fod y darlun yn llawer mwy cynnil nag y gallai cyfraniad Caroline Jones fod wedi eich arwain i gredu.
Hoffwn sôn ychydig mwy ynglŷn â pham y credwn y dylai tai cymdeithasol fod yn brif flaenoriaeth, a pham y mae'n brif flaenoriaeth i ni. Mae'n darparu cartrefi o ansawdd yn ogystal â'r cymorth sydd ei angen i sicrhau bod pobl yn gallu cynnal eu tenantiaethau a ffynnu. Mae'n effeithio'n gadarnhaol ar iechyd, iechyd meddwl ac addysg, a dyna pam fod Cymru bob amser wedi cefnogi tai cymdeithasol, ers i'r Cynulliad ddod i fodolaeth.
Rydym yn cydnabod bod tai cymdeithasol yn galw am lefel uwch o gymhorthdal gan y Llywodraeth, ac rydym yn gyfforddus ynglŷn â hyn. Rydym yn cefnogi'r rhai y gall ein buddsoddiad gael yr effaith fwyaf arnynt. Gall y buddsoddiad hwnnw leihau'r gost i'r trethdalwr mewn meysydd eraill o bosibl. Felly, rydym wedi codi'r safonau ym maes tai cymdeithasol. Mae safon ansawdd tai Cymru yn sicrhau, er enghraifft, safon inswleiddio categori D, ac yn yr iteriad nesaf o safon ansawdd tai Cymru, byddwn yn edrych ar ei godi i gategori A. Felly, nid oedd modd trawsnewid y stoc dros nos o lle'r oedd i gategori A, ond byddwn yn cael yr ail ran o hynny pan fyddwn yn trafod codi'r safon honno.
Mae'r gwaith adeiladu newydd ar dai a adeiladwyd gan gymdeithasau tai lleol, sef yr unig bobl a oedd yn gallu eu hadeiladu tan y newid rwyf newydd ei grybwyll, Ddirprwy Lywydd, wedi sicrhau bod pob cartref newydd yn cyrraedd y safon erbyn 2020, a bydd yr holl stoc bresennol yn ei chyrraedd erbyn 2036. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, mae fy llygaid y drwg. Mae'n dweud 2036. Roeddwn yn meddwl ei fod yn dweud 2038.
Felly, rwyf am roi stop ar yr awgrym roedd Caroline Jones i'w gweld yn ei wneud, fod tai cymdeithasol rywsut yn is na'r safon, ac ati, oherwydd yn bendant nid yw hynny'n wir. Yn ystod yr amser cymharol fyr y bûm yn Weinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol, rwyf wedi gweld drosof fy hun pa mor bwysig yw tai diogel o ansawdd da i iechyd a lles y cymunedau rydym yn eu gwasanaethu.
Cefnogir ein hagenda integreiddio gan £105 miliwn o'r gronfa gofal integredig, gyda'r nod o wella gwasanaethau cyhoeddus drwy wneud gweithio cydweithredol yn ofyniad penodol i awdurdodau lleol a byrddau iechyd, tra'n caniatáu lle ar gyfer arloesi. Er bod y gronfa yn dechrau cefnogi atebion ar sail llety ar gyfer gofal cymdeithasol ochr yn ochr â rhaglenni cyfalaf iechyd a thai, rydym yn ei chefnogi i symud tuag at ddatblygu rhaglen strategol fwy graddadwy o fuddsoddiad cyfalaf gyda thai'n ganolog iddi. Rwyf am weld y dull ar sail llety wedi'i wreiddio yn y modelau gofal a ddatblygwn ar gyfer pobl a grwpiau sy'n agored i niwed. Roeddwn yn cytuno â Caroline Jones fod angen llety arbenigol ar grwpiau agored i niwed, a dyna'n union y mae ein cronfa gofal integredig yn anelu tuag ato.
Fe fydd pawb ohonoch yn ymwybodol ein bod, fel Llywodraeth, wedi ymrwymo i ddarparu 20,000 o gartrefi fforddiadwy ychwanegol yn ystod tymor y Cynulliad hwn. Cartrefi rhent cymdeithasol fydd y rhan fwyaf o'r targed hwnnw, er fy mod yn cydnabod bod angen cartrefi ychwanegol ledled Cymru. Rydym wedi buddsoddi'n drwm mewn tai cymdeithasol ac mewn tai yn fwy cyffredinol yn ystod y tymor hwn, ond nid yw ein hadnoddau'n ddiderfyn. Rhaid inni feddwl yn greadigol ynglŷn â sut y gallwn gyflawni mwy o'n buddsoddiad ac mae hyn yn rhywbeth rwyf wedi herio fy swyddogion i'w wneud. Mae'r her yn ganolog hefyd i'r adolygiad annibynnol o gyflenwyr tai fforddiadwy a gomisiynwyd gennym, ac a fydd yn cyflwyno'i adroddiad ddiwedd mis Ebrill.
Un maes lle rwy'n argyhoeddedig y gallwn weld cynnydd yn nifer y tai cymdeithasol a ddarperir yw drwy weld awdurdodau lleol yn adeiladu eto, ac yn hynny o beth rwy'n cytuno â Caroline Jones. Credaf fod angen i awdurdodau tai lleol ddechrau adeiladu cartrefi cymdeithasol unwaith eto. Gan fod y cap benthyca a osodwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU wedi cael ei ddiddymu yng Nghymru, gall awdurdodau ddechrau adeiladu unwaith eto, ac fe fyddant yn gwneud hynny. Cefais sgyrsiau da iawn ledled Cymru gydag awdurdodau lleol sy'n awyddus ac yn barod i wneud hynny. Gallant gael mynediad at gyllid cost isel hirdymor iawn drwy'r Bwrdd Benthyciadau Gwaith Cyhoeddus, a byddaf yn eu hannog i'w ddefnyddio er mwyn hybu prosiectau adeiladu tai cyngor uchelgeisiol ledled Cymru.
Rwyf hefyd yn cydnabod bod yna agweddau ar y modd y defnyddiwn ein stoc tai cymdeithasol nad ydynt yn berffaith ym mhob cwr o Gymru. Rwyf wedi bod yn glir mai fy uchelgais yw inni adeiladu digon o dai cymdeithasol safonol fel bod pawb sydd am eu cael yn gallu eu cael. Tan hynny, rhaid inni wneud y gorau a allwn i sicrhau ein bod yn gwneud y defnydd gorau posibl o'n tai cymdeithasol i ddiwallu anghenion y rheini sydd eu hangen fwyaf.
Nid yw troi teuluoedd allan o dai cymdeithasol, yn enwedig mewn awdurdodau lleol sy'n landlordiaid tai cymdeithasol, yn gwneud unrhyw synnwyr. Pan fydd teulu wedi'i wneud yn ddigartref, maent yn debygol o gael eu symud i lety llai diogel neu lety dros dro hyd yn oed, ac yn y sefyllfa waethaf gallai hyn olygu gwesty gwely a brecwast. Mae gan yr awdurdodau ddyletswydd i gefnogi teuluoedd er mwyn atal digartrefedd neu ei liniaru lle na ellir ei atal. Mae atal go iawn yn golygu cynorthwyo teuluoedd i lwyddo i gynnal eu tenantiaethau ac aros yn eu cymunedau. Dyna y dylem fod yn ceisio ei gyflawni, a dyma'r pwynt y byddaf yn ei bwysleisio i awdurdodau lleol. Dyma sgwrs y byddaf yn ei chael gyda chymdeithasau tai hefyd.
Felly, soniodd Caroline Jones am un neu ddau o bethau penodol yn ei llwyth achosion y buaswn yn hapus iawn pe bai'n eu hanfon ataf, oherwydd hoffwn edrych yn fanylach ar y manylion penodol. Ond yn gyffredinol, nid ystyried troi rhywun allan am ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol yw'r ffordd ymlaen. Y ffordd ymlaen yw mynd i'r afael â'r ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol a'i gadw dan reolaeth a chaniatáu i'r teulu barhau gyda'u tenantiaeth. Felly, i fod yn glir, credaf nad ydym ar yr un dudalen yn llwyr ar rai o'r pethau hynny.
Yn y cyfnod ansicr hwn, gyda Brexit heb ei ddatrys, rydym yn parhau'n ymrwymedig i sicrhau bod tai cymdeithasol yn parhau i fod yn flaenoriaeth yng Nghymru. Gwn o ddadl ddiweddar fod llawer ohonom ar draws y llawr yn rhannu'r un dyheadau ar gyfer tai cymdeithasol ac rwy'n barod i weithio gyda'r Aelodau ar yr agenda hon.
Felly, i gloi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, tai cymdeithasol o ansawdd da yw'r sylfaen ar gyfer teuluoedd a chymunedau cryf, y sylfaen ar gyfer iechyd da, a'r sylfaen ar gyfer addysg dda. Bydd y Llywodraeth hon yn parhau i gefnogi'r ased hanfodol hwn sydd o fudd i bob un ohonom. Diolch.
Thank you very much. That brings today's proceedings to a close. Thank you.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Daw hynny â thrafodion heddiw i ben. Diolch.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 18:31.
The meeting ended at 18:31.