16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768958 0 Cy 260915-0 I This is a draft version of the Record that includes the floor language and the simultaneous interpretation.  [R] indicates that the Member has declared an interest when tabling the business. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768959 1 Cy 260915-0 I The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Huw Irranca-Davies) in the Chair. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768961 2 Cy 2026-09-15T13:30:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=3&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Welcome back to you all.  16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768968 3 En 2026-09-15T13:30:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=6&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Welcome back, everybody.  16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768969 4 Cy 2026-09-15T13:30:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=10&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Let's move on to this afternoon's business, and item 1—questions to the First Minister. And the first question is from Gwyn Williams.  16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768962 5 Cy 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Community Public Energy Company 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768963 6 Cy 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 5083 5083 Gwyn Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5083 Williams, Gwyn 1. What benefits will come to the residents of Swansea following the establishment of a community public energy company for Wales? OQ64441 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768964 7 Cy 2026-09-15T13:30:32 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=32&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Well, thank you for the question, and as the Llywydd did, I will welcome everyone back after the summer. I understand that it's been a very busy summer for everyone, but I do hope that everyone had an opportunity to relax too. Our aim in establishing a Welsh public energy company is to make the best possible use of our energy resources as a nation, ensuring that energy becomes more affordable, cleaner, and that more of it is owned by us here in Wales. This will help communities, businesses and public services to make better use of the energy produced in Wales. On 7 September, we launched a consultation on that, and I look forward to hearing the views of people on how we can better take advantage of Welsh energy for the benefit of communities and people in all parts of Wales. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768972 8 En 2026-09-15T13:31:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=83&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5083 5083 Gwyn Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5083 Williams, Gwyn A publicly-owned energy company based in Swansea, with a focus on supporting community and local ownership would not just positively impact communities across Gwyr Abertawe, but also across the wider Swansea bay area. The cost-of-living crisis has impacted many thousands of people in my constituency, made worse, of course, by the closure of the furnaces over in Port Talbot, which is not so far away. Swansea has the second biggest tidal range in the world, and the city's proximity to the electric arc furnace across the bay will be an integral part of our transition to net zero.  So, if it is based in Swansea, it would also provide a tangible future of sustainable careers that future generations can look forward to. With these exciting points in mind, will Swansea be considered for the potential headquarters of a community public energy company for Wales? Diolch yn fawr.  16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768974 9 En 2026-09-15T13:32:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=136&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I congratulate the Member on a shameless, but very, very well meaning and important plug on behalf of his constituents, and I'm sure many of you are thinking along similar lines right now. What the Member does do, of course, importantly, is reflect on the economic challenges in the area that he represents, and we will always as a Government seek to create opportunities for innovation and growth and job opportunities in every single part of our nation. And that will be one of the founding principles of the new development agency that we are in the process of establishing.  The proposed new company is built around Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru, which is currently headquartered in Merthyr Tydfil. But it also has staff in other areas of Wales, and, crucially, it will be there to serve all parts of Wales and to make gains for communities wherever they are in our nation.  16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768978 10 En 2026-09-15T13:33:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=199&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12190 12190 Francesca O'Brien https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12190 O'Brien, Francesca The UK has the highest industrial electricity prices in the world, north Wales paying the highest electric standing charges in Britain, and south Wales, in my constituency, pays above the average. Politicians trying to control the energy market isn't going to fix this. The problem is the cost of net zero, loaded onto working families through their bills. A combination of green taxes and regulations have led us down this path of rising bills and job losses—just look at Port Talbot for example.  So, First Minister, can you confirm that all forms of energy will be supported by this body? Otherwise, how many more Welsh jobs will have to go before this Government admits its net zero targets are being paid for by the people who can least afford it? 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768980 11 En 2026-09-15T13:34:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=251&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I think the point I would make is that high energy prices are not as a result of a pursuit of net zero. They're not as a result of the determination that we must have—every one of us—to tackle the scourge of climate change. And we know the cost of not tackling climate change. We saw it in the wildfires that scorched so much of Wales over this summer.  I hope I can persuade the Member that what we should be doing is seeking as much control as possible over how we generate electricity in Wales, how we reap the benefits of those projects in Wales, and having energy devolved to Wales as part of our toolkit as a nation to look after businesses and communities alike.  16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768982 12 Cy 2026-09-15T13:34:52 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=292&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane Thank you very much, and good afternoon, First Minister.  16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768985 13 En 2026-09-15T13:34:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=295&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane I welcome the emphasis in the consultation on increasing community energy, and I think it's shameful and shameless of Reform UK 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768965 14 En 2026-09-15T13:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=300&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane I think it's shameful and shameless of Reform UK to abandon our—[Interruption.] It's my job. To abandon and just to sideline net zero. The world is on fire. As the First Minister has said, you just needed to look and see and talk to the communities that we represent over the summer just to see how bad it is. To get back to the very good point raised by Gwyn in relation to the community energy issues, I was lucky enough to visit Hwb y Gors in the Amman valley, where community-owned wind turbines have paid for the renovation of the community centre there. But it took 10 years to secure planning permission, and we need to make it much easier for our communities to be able to own community energy. So, Prif Weinidog, what will you and the Government do to make sure that we accelerate this, so that, actually, communities can own that community energy and ensure that they see the benefits and we stop the world being on fire? Diolch yn fawr iawn. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768971 15 En 2026-09-15T13:36:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=364&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The Member is quite right, of course, about the need to accelerate our mission here, to make the most of the natural resources that we have and to take seriously our responsibilities when it comes to tackling climate change. This is what it's about—setting up a new organisation that can move more swiftly, that can look at how to work on commercial projects of a larger scale and with community energy, because it's all going to be in the mix. Climate change, and tackling climate change, is a responsibility for every single Minister in this Government. So, yes, it will involve planning, it will involve the energy Minister, it will involve the housing Minister, and so on. Where is she? She's over there. So, this is something that's owned by all of Government. The Member's quite right, of course, on Reform. In denying climate change, they are acting against the interests of the people of Wales. In denying or wanting to curtail employment rights, they are acting against the interests of workers the length and breadth of our nation. Reform is not a party that has the interests of Wales at heart in any way, shape or form. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768975 16 Cy 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Supporting Local Businesses 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768976 17 Cy 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12169 12169 John Clark https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12169 Clark, John 2. What action is the First Minister taking to support local businesses in the Bangor area? OQ64469 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768977 18 En 2026-09-15T13:37:17 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=437&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I welcome this timely question from the Member, on the same day my Government publishes plans to cut business rates by 30 per cent for pubs, restaurants, cafes, bars, licensed clubs, hotels, gyms and cinemas. More broadly, through Business Wales, we provide advice and growth support to businesses. Targeted investment in local infrastructure and funding is helping to revitalise Bangor city centre specifically. We have also established that town centre taskforce we promised we would as part of our 100-day commitment to drive investment, increase footfall and support local businesses to grow. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768984 19 En 2026-09-15T13:37:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=475&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12169 12169 John Clark https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12169 Clark, John Your Government launched the town centre taskforce in Bangor. Neither of the co-chairs are from the city and no Bangor trader has been named to it. The £654,000 announced that day is for an event space at Storiel, not for the high street, where shops are empty and the pavement is broken by lorries. How does the taskforce actually support local businesses on Bangor High Street? 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768987 20 En 2026-09-15T13:38:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=502&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I know very, very well the challenges faced by Bangor High Street. It was my high street growing up, and I'm determined that when we look at Bangor, and all the other high streets throughout Wales, we have a clear focus on using all the tools at our disposal to support them. The town centre taskforce, I remind him, is for all high streets. There has been specific assistance, to the tune of over £600,000, announced for Bangor in recent months; I don't imagine that that is something that the people of Bangor are unhappy about. But it's always part of a range of measures that we can take as a Government. That announcement today of the 30 per cent cut in business rates is determinedly targeted at helping high streets like Bangor, through supporting those businesses that bring vibrancy, that bring life to those high streets. This is a Government from the get-go that is showing that we are determined to act on the promises that we made, and Bangor, like many other towns the length and breadth of Wales, will benefit from that. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768989 21 Cy 2026-09-15T13:39:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=571&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5084 5084 Mair Rowlands https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5084 Rowlands, Mair Small businesses are the backbone of our local economy in Bangor Conwy Môn. A clear example of this in Bangor is Antoniazzi's cafe, which has been a prominent presence on the high street for 92 years now. In recent conversations with a number of businesses recently, the same request often rose, namely a fair deal on business rates, and I look forward to hearing the finance Minister's statement later on this afternoon about that. But does the First Minister agree with me 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768970 22 Cy 2026-09-15T13:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=600&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5084 5084 Mair Rowlands https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5084 Rowlands, Mair But does the First Minister agree with me that the Plaid Cymru Government’s commitment to adjust business rates in favour of our independent small businesses will give them the confidence to grow and invest, breathing new life into our town centres in the process? 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768973 23 Cy 2026-09-15T13:40:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=612&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Thank you for the question. Of course, Antoniazzi's is a well-established business of almost 100 years' standing. What we will see outlined by the Cabinet Minister for Finance this afternoon will be truly significant. SMEs are the backbone of our economy, and we've made it clear, particularly through the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy, that we are determined to support and grow indigenous Welsh businesses to ensure that successful businesses continue in Welsh ownership and to give them the confidence to invest in their future. The changes presented to non-domestic rates will be introduced as soon as possible, from the beginning of next year or the next financial year. They will be permanent, which again is a step that gives business confidence. I look forward to hearing the details from the Minister later this afternoon.  16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768981 24 En 2026-09-15T13:41:07 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=667&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 212 212 Janet Finch-Saunders https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=212 Finch-Saunders, Janet I thank you, John, for bringing this question, because it's really important that we don't allow Bangor high street to continue suffering as it is. When I was campaigning, and since, residents stated that there just are not enough shops, cafes or restaurants in the area. Now, I welcome the announcement of £654,000 of funding to reinvent struggling high streets in Wales, and in particular in Bangor, but some of the projects are for new street furniture and an amphitheatre. Businesses themselves are concerned as to how they will be involved in the spending. And if anyone's ever looked, when the previous Welsh Labour Government put funding grants into towns, it didn't make any difference whatsoever.  Now, I note that I have previously asked in terms of hospitality businesses for VAT to come down to 10 per cent, and I'm pleased to say that one of your party members in Parliament is also making that call for VAT on hospitality businesses to drop to 10 per cent. Do you support her calls, and the calls of the Welsh Conservatives, to really help our tourism and hospitality businesses? 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768988 25 En 2026-09-15T13:42:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=741&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun It is a call that I have made in the past. What I would say is that we have to engage in what UK Government could do and balance that against other things that the UK Government could do, because it's the outcome that's important, isn't it? It's not what the measure is, it's how it helps. What I have to do is to look at what I have in my toolkit, and one of the things that we do have are the powers over non-domestic rates. We said that we would use those powers, and we've moved very, very quickly to make sure that we do, with this permanent change, this real vote of confidence in leisure and hospitality—pubs, cafes, things that really bring vibrancy to the high street. So, the UK Government needs to look at its house and see what it can do. We'll put pressure on them to act in a whole host of different ways. We're acting using the powers that we have. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768991 26 Cy 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768992 27 Cy 2026-09-15T13:43:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=786&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw I now call on the party leaders to question the First Minister. First, on behalf of Reform UK, Helen Jenner. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768996 28 En 2026-09-15T13:43:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=794&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12153 12153 Helen Jenner https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12153 Jenner, Hellen Prif Weinidog, despite you repeatedly saying that the election was not about seeking independence, on your first day back from recess, you met with the leaders of Sinn Féin and the SNP to discuss plans to break up the United Kingdom. This is an act for which you have no mandate. Over two thirds of people surveyed recently said that they did not want to see Wales ripped out of the United Kingdom, and this Chamber has a pro-union majority. During the election campaign, you said that you wouldn't be looking to pursue independence, but clearly, despite there being no appetite for it, you are. First Minister, you recently supported a law to make it an offence for politicians to knowingly mislead the public, so my question is, to you: did you knowingly mislead voters when you said that this election wasn't about independence? 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769002 29 En 2026-09-15T13:44:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=845&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Do you know what I had a mandate to pursue? What I had a mandate to pursue was the best for Wales, always. So, when I get together with like-minded leaders throughout these islands, looking at how we can work together on childcare, on energy, on the way that we put pressure on UK Government on funding, I think that that is absolutely standing up for Wales, as the people of Wales put their trust in us to do. And yes, at the same time, we set our ambition for the nation. I believe that this isn't as good as things can get for Wales. Is Westminster working particularly well for Wales? Two letters and a number: HS2. That's the injustice that we're facing. Is the two-child cap what we really think is in the interest of the people of Wales? And a party like Reform always things that Wales is too small. Where's the ambition? Well, you know what, Matthew Rhys. Let's congratulate Matthew Rhys on his historic Emmys win last night and what he said in accepting those two awards 'We are a small but mighty nation. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768979 30 En 2026-09-15T13:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=1500&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun published our plans on how we change the NHS's attitudes towards getting people through the system, not being wasteful in the way that we use our resources, because we are determined to act on our promise in this election to make health the No. 1 priority, because I think that’s the No. 1 priority of the people of Wales.  16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768995 31 En 2026-09-15T13:55:07 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=1507&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Millar, Darren You say that it's your No. 1 priority, and you say that you want to co-operate with others in order to improve the NHS. I looked very carefully at the declaration that you signed yesterday alongside those other nationalist leaders, and let me tell you, there was no mention of the health service. There was no mention of the national health service in any way, shape or form whatsoever. There was no mention, either, of our education system, and as has already been pointed out, it's hardly surprising given that we've got the worst education system in the whole of the United Kingdom, and that Scotland's education system is also tumbling down the PISA scores, as is Northern Ireland’s. Why don't you co-operate on the things for which you're absolutely already responsible instead of having these pie-in-the-sky discussions, grandstanding over the constitution of the United Kingdom rather than pulling your finger out and doing the job that the people of Wales elected you to do? Let me tell you this, First Minister: the honeymoon is well and truly over. While you were sunning yourself on a beach, presumably burying your head in the sand on it on the 100-day anniversary of your Government, people in Wales are dying in our hospitals, and young people are not getting the education they need. When will they see change rather than the continuity Labour that we've seen so far? 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769003 32 En 2026-09-15T13:56:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=1583&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun When will we see a change in the Conservatives and the whingeing that we always hear from their benches on these matters, rather than working constructively? We have an offer here, right? To work constructively, to seek ideas. That includes from you, as the leader of the Conservatives, on the future of our public services here in Wales. This Government set out a programme that was given a mandate, not with a majority, but with a clear mandate to deliver for the people of Wales. And that means on health, which is why my health Minister worked so quickly to pump that money in, which will bring down those waiting times that the people of Wales deserve. It’s why we moved quickly to put that national numeracy and literacy scheme in place, which will drive up education standards, because I agree with you: it is scandalous, the way that we have allowed standards to drop here in Wales, with our proud record of educational achievement. We do this at the same time as setting an ambition for having more control over our own future here as a nation in Wales.  16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769009 33 Cy 2026-09-15T13:57:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=1640&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Irranca-Davies, Huw Question 3, Adrian Mason. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769013 34 Cy 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Tuition Fees 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769017 35 En 2026-09-15T13:57:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=1641&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12181 12181 Adrian Mason https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12181 Mason, Adrian How to follow that? A declaration of interest: my wife works for Bangor University, Llywydd. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769014 36 Cy 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12181 12181 Adrian Mason https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12181 Mason, Adrian 3. What assessment has the First Minister made of the affordability of tuition fees in Wales? OQ64476 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769015 37 En 2026-09-15T13:57:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=1658&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Tuition fees are set by higher education institutions, and eligible students receive loans to meet the full cost of their tuition. The Welsh Government will consider fees alongside the long-term sustainability of higher education itself in our independent review of higher education, and the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education will provide further details later this afternoon.  16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769020 38 En 2026-09-15T13:58:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=1683&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12181 12181 Adrian Mason https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12181 Mason, Adrian Thank you, First Minister. The figures are clear and unambiguous. England has already set its tuition fee cap at just over £10,000. At the same time, Welsh universities are under severe financial pressure. The sector will record an underlying deficit of more than £79 million according to Medr, while Bangor University alone reports a deficit of maybe £19 million, alongside redundancies. And the number of Welsh students studying at Welsh universities has fallen by about 9 per cent since 2021, the largest percentage fall of any UK nation. Universities need certainty if they’re to plan staffing, courses and investment responsibly. They are on their beam ends, quite frankly. So will the First Minister give the sector some certainty today? Will the Welsh tuition fee cap remain in line with England for the rest of the Senedd term, yes or no, please? 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769026 39 En 2026-09-15T13:58:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=1737&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I genuinely appreciate the way that the question has been framed, because I align myself with that description of the fragility of the higher education sector in Wales. It's something that should worry us all for the future of education and learning itself, for the impact that that has on the Welsh economy and research, also for the jobs that are supported by our higher education sector. But of course, we also want to support the students who are the future of those jobs, and those jobs in the sector itself. It is a balance, and what we have said is that we need to find that balance, and I'll remind you what Plaid Cymru, the party I lead, has said throughout: this is something that we need consensus on. This is something that's far too important to be allowed to be used as some sort of political ding-dong, because I hope I'm looking  16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768993 40 En 2026-09-15T14:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=1800&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I hope I'm looking at everybody in this Chamber and seeing fellow Members who want to see both our students supported appropriately and our higher education institutions survive and prosper. On the fees cap, no decision has been announced yet on Welsh tuition fee caps or fee loans support for 2027-28. We're considering how best to support students while maintaining the higher education sector in Wales. That is a balance that we all need to think carefully about. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768998 41 En 2026-09-15T14:00:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=1834&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5196 5196 Sarah Rees https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5196 Rees, Sarah First Minister, over the summer, I worked with the Open University, who do brilliant work in ensuring education is accessible to everyone, if that's the path that they wish to pursue. Their fees remain below the maximum borrowing amount, simply because if the rates were too high, the number of their students would decline. With almost a quarter of people in Wales living in relative income poverty, the Open University is a fantastic institution by which education, career development and personal growth are viable opportunities. So, I would like to ask how you will ensure that people in Wales have access to higher education without being held back by ever-increasing loans? 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769008 42 En 2026-09-15T14:01:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=1872&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun And it is an issue that potential students are having to reckon with more and more. I was stopped by a young gentleman yesterday who was excited at seeing a politician; he wanted a picture. He was studying for a politics, philosophy and economics degree at the Open University and it was working really well for him. He was working still whilst he was doing his degree. We know that the Open University and other providers of part-time courses play an important role in widening access to higher education and supporting flexible learning opportunities. And this review of higher education will look at all aspects of higher education, including access to part-time provision. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769016 43 En 2026-09-15T14:01:58 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=1918&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 143 143 Andrew R.T. Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=143 Davies, Andrew R.T. First Minister, the Treasury select committee up in the House of Commons came forward with a report over the summer that highlighted 28 recommendations to the UK Government, two of which really stood out as very simplistic, but to have a big effect. One: supplying good quality information to students at the time of accepting their student loan, which you would have thought would be happening already, but isn't happening. And secondly, instead of using retail prices index, use consumer prices index, which again would have a significant effect of lowering the interest rates. Would your Government be supportive of adopting these recommendations to make a quick win in a complex field? Obviously, your review is looking at the higher education sector more generally, but students need help today, not in six, 12 or 18 months?  16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769021 44 En 2026-09-15T14:02:48 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=1968&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun It's not a matter specifically that I have discussed with the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education, and it's certainly something that I'm willing to look at and see where our position would be, because, at the end of the day, I'm really concerned about the impact of the debts that students go into. I have just one student left in our family now, but two ex-students who are living with debt. Many of us either are living with debts ourselves or are parents of those who are, and it's something that really concerns us. In brief, I want every potential avenue to be looked at that could take the pressure off students now or potential students in future. So, thank you.  16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769023 45 Cy 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Waiting Times for Cataract Surgery 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769024 46 Cy 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 8650 8650 Gareth Beer https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8650 Beer, Gareth 4. Will the First Minister make a statement on waiting times for cataract surgery in Sir Gaerfyrddin? OQ64456 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769025 47 En 2026-09-15T14:03:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=2019&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun We recognise that people waiting for cataract surgery want treatment as quickly as possible, obviously. That is why we've committed an additional £145 million this year to reduce waiting times, improve access and support clinically led service transformation across Wales. We're also taking forward plans for new surgical hubs, to increase clinical capacity and help more patients receive treatment sooner, including, of course, those waiting for cataract surgery. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769028 48 En 2026-09-15T14:04:07 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=2047&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 8650 8650 Gareth Beer https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8650 Beer, Gareth Diolch, First Minister. Despite your Government's investment, including the use of higher cost private providers and the appointment of a Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health, my constituents still face long waits and last-minute cancellations of cataract operations. What long-term action will the Welsh Government take to train more eye surgeons and increase capacity to meet the growing demand from an ageing population, including patients with glaucoma or diabetic retinopathy, and those needing regular eye injections to prevent avoidable blindness? 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769029 49 En 2026-09-15T14:04:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=2082&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun And it's one of those areas where you need rapid treatment in order to avoid more permanent damage. We have two ophthalmologists sitting here in the Senedd Chamber who know far more than I do. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768994 50 En 2026-09-15T14:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=2100&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun than I do. The Member referenced the bringing in of private providers. That has a role to play. But the big change in emphasis under this Government is not using that as a backstop and instead, building up the kind of capacity that can make reductions in waiting times and a smoother passage of patients through the system more sustainable. I'd point to that as being the main element of what we're trying to do here. Details have been provided by the Minister as we've rolled out these new approaches in the first 100 days. I'm confident that that is the kind of long-term thinking that we need. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 768999 51 Cy 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Protecting Renters 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769000 52 Cy 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12159 12159 David Hughes https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 Hughes, David 5. Will the First Minister set out a timeline for the introduction of new measures to better protect renters? OQ64467 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769001 53 En 2026-09-15T14:05:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=2155&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Yes. I'll refer Members, first of all, though, to my declaration of interest as a shareholder in a company renting out a domestic property. Strengthening the private rented sector is a priority for this Government; I think we've made that pretty clear, we set it out in my legislative statement on 14 July. Renters in Wales deserve a safe, warm, secure and affordable home and should feel confident challenging poor conditions. Positive change requires good law, and in the first phase of our legislative programme, we'll deliver legislation that protects tenants and tackles poor landlords, making renting, hopefully, more secure. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769004 54 En 2026-09-15T14:06:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=2197&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12159 12159 David Hughes https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 Hughes, David Thank you. First Minister, we know that immigration increases demand on housing which, in turn, leads to increased rents. So, can the First Minister confirm that any planned changes to private and social renters' protections will be prioritised for Welsh people over recent arrivals? 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769012 55 En 2026-09-15T14:07:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=2221&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun As I've pointed out many times in this Chamber, we have many pressures on housing. Those pressures, when we look at the big picture, do not come from recent arrivals from overseas. So, I think it's important to hone down on those facts. But there are pressures, and we will always want to make sure that our housing stock is adequate in numbers, that the housing stock quality is of a decent level, which people should be able to gain confidence from. But also, we need to look at the question of affordability too. We have a two-phased approach in terms of legislation, and affordability will very much be a part of our considerations when it comes to legislation. I've invited people, Members here, to contribute to the development of legislation, and if there's an interest across this Chamber in those affordability issues, well, let's discuss them. 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769018 56 En 2026-09-15T14:08:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=2282&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12141 12141 Zaynub Akbar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12141 Akbar, Zaynub Brif Weinidog, private renting has become increasingly unaffordable, with many households now spending a really unsustainable amount of their income simply on keeping a roof over their heads. Recent Citizens Advice data has shown that some people are spending up to 70 per cent of their income on rent alone, and in Cardiff, there are instances of rents more than doubling now, with just two months' notice. As a consequence, homelessness services are facing increased demand, not only because people are being evicted from their homes, but because council support with rent is also insufficient, placing greater pressure on social housing and temporary accommodation. Does the First Minister agree with me that spending more than two thirds of an individual's income on rent is not acceptable, and that limiting annual rent increases is essential? 16260 7 2026-09-15T13:30:00 769022 57 En 2026-09-15T14:08:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16260?startPos=2336&l=en 260915-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Yes. You don't have to think very hard to work out the poverty that somebody is driven into in real terms when they have so little of their income left after paying their rent. The issues that cause that, there's a multitude of them, supply of homes is one of them and social housing—that's why we are determined to bring in an extra 20,000 additional social homes by 2030. It's bringing homes into use that are currently not in use. It's about raising the quality of the housing stock, as well. And then, there are things, as I've said, that we can do through legislation, and actively exploring different measures for regulating increases in rent, for example, effectively is really important. We can look at what's happening in Scotland. Catalonia—there are learnings from there too. It's important that we look at what works well, and also look at potential drawbacks. But significant steps need considerable policy development, evidence gathering,