Y Cyfarfod Llawn - Y Bumed Senedd
Plenary - Fifth Senedd
30/09/2020Cynnwys
Contents
Yn y fersiwn ddwyieithog, mae’r golofn chwith yn cynnwys yr iaith a lefarwyd yn y cyfarfod. Mae’r golofn dde yn cynnwys cyfieithiad o’r areithiau hynny.
In the bilingual version, the left-hand column includes the language used during the meeting. The right-hand column includes a translation of those speeches.
Cyfarfu'r Senedd yn y Siambr a thrwy gynhadledd fideo am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair.
The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.
Croeso, bawb, i'r Cyfarfod Llawn. Jest nodi ychydig o bwyntiau, cyn cychwyn: cynhelir y cyfarfod hwn ar ffurf hybrid, gyda rhai Aelodau yn Siambr y Senedd ac eraill yn ymuno drwy gyswllt fideo. Bydd yr holl Aelodau sy'n cymryd rhan yn nhrafodion y Senedd, ble bynnag y bônt, yn cael eu trin yn gyfartal. Mae Cyfarfod Llawn a gynhelir drwy gynhadledd fideo, yn unol â Rheolau Sefydlog Senedd Cymru, yn gyfystyr â thrafodion y Senedd at ddibenion Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006. Bydd rhai o ddarpariaethau Rheol Sefydlog 34 yn gymwys ar gyfer y Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw, ac mae'r rhain wedi'u nodi ar eich agenda chi. A dwi eisiau atgoffa Aelodau fod y Rheolau Sefydlog sy'n ymwneud â threfn yn y Cyfarfod Llawn yn berthnasol i'r cyfarfod, ac yr un mor berthnasol i Aelodau yn y Siambr ag ydyn nhw i'r rhai sy'n ymuno drwy gyswllt fideo.
Welcome to this Plenary meeting. I just want to set out a few points, before we start. This meeting will be held in a hybrid format, with some Members in the Senedd Siambr and others joining by video-conference. All Members who participate in proceedings of the Senedd, wherever they may be, will be treated equally. A Plenary meeting held using video-conference, in accordance with the Standing Orders of the Welsh Parliament, constitute Senedd proceedings for the purposes of the Government of Wales Act 2006. Some of the provisions of Standing Order 34 will apply for today's Plenary meeting, and those have been noted on your agenda. And I would remind Members that Standing Orders relating to order in Plenary meetings apply to this meeting, and apply equally to Members in the Siambr as to those joining virtually.
Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni'r prynawn yma, felly, yw'r cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Addysg, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Suzy Davies.
The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the Minister for Education, and the first question is from Suzy Davies.
1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am hynt yr adolygiad annibynnol o'r trefniadau ar gyfer dyfarnu graddau yn haf 2020, a'r ystyriaethau ar gyfer haf 2021? OQ55603
1. Will the Minister provide an update on the progress of the independent review into the summer 2020 arrangements to award grades, and considerations for summer 2021? OQ55603
Thank you, Suzy. The review panel is currently gathering evidence and interviewing stakeholders. I will receive the interim findings, which will include key considerations for 2021, next month.
Diolch, Suzy. Ar hyn o bryd, mae'r panel adolygu'n casglu tystiolaeth ac yn cyfweld â rhanddeiliaid. Byddaf yn derbyn y casgliadau interim, a fydd yn cynnwys ystyriaethau allweddol ar gyfer 2021, fis nesaf.
Thank you for that. It's just to raise the point that some in the sector have been contacted only this week, despite the review's findings due to be published by the end of October, so I'm not sure when the interim one is due. What they say does matter if preparations for the summer are to be practicable. Qualifications Wales have got their own summer 2021 stakeholder group to meet between now and December. So, could you tell us how that work and that of the review will relate to each other? And when will schools and colleges know exactly what they need to teach and how pupils' work will be assessed? Because that Qualifications Wales work won't be finished until a third of the way through the academic year.
Diolch. Rwyf ond yn codi'r pwynt na chysylltwyd â rhai yn y sector tan yr wythnos hon, er gwaethaf casgliadau’r adolygiad, sydd i fod i gael eu cyhoeddi erbyn diwedd mis Hydref, felly nid wyf yn siŵr pryd y mae'r un interim i fod i gael ei gyhoeddi. Mae'r hyn a ddywedant yn bwysig os yw’r paratoadau ar gyfer yr haf yn mynd i fod yn ymarferol. Mae grŵp rhanddeiliaid haf 2021 Cymwysterau Cymru i fod i gyfarfod rhwng nawr a mis Rhagfyr. Felly, a allech ddweud wrthym sut y bydd y gwaith hwnnw a gwaith yr adolygiad yn cysylltu â'i gilydd? A pha bryd y bydd ysgolion a cholegau yn gwybod beth yn union fydd angen iddynt ei addysgu a sut yr asesir gwaith disgyblion? Oherwydd ni fydd gwaith Cymwysterau Cymru ar ben tan un rhan o dair o’r ffordd drwy'r flwyddyn academaidd.
Thank you, Suzy. The interim report from the review body will be made available to me next month, and their final review will be given to me before the end of the year. Clearly, in the interim, Qualifications Wales are indeed carrying out their own piece of work, but they have already given evidence to the review panel, I believe, and they will need to be cognisant of any findings that the independent review panel make to me and any decisions I make as a result of the work of Louise Casella.
Diolch, Suzy. Bydd yr adroddiad interim gan y corff adolygu ar gael i mi fis nesaf, a bydd eu hadolygiad terfynol yn cael ei roi i mi cyn diwedd y flwyddyn. Yn amlwg, yn y cyfamser, mae Cymwysterau Cymru yn gwneud eu gwaith eu hunain yn wir, ond maent eisoes wedi rhoi tystiolaeth i'r panel adolygu, rwy'n credu, a bydd angen iddynt fod yn ymwybodol o unrhyw gasgliadau a roddir i mi gan y panel adolygu annibynnol ac unrhyw benderfyniadau a wnaf o ganlyniad i waith Louise Casella.
Minister, you know I wrote to you in August, asking for a review of the system, following the results publication, and I am very pleased that the review is taking place. But I am concerned about next summer's examinations or possible examinations. We still don't know what will happen next summer, as of this point. I also know that many teachers and pupils are also concerned about what will happen with examinations next summer. Are you putting into place a plan B, which could be based upon teacher-assessed work again but, this time, moderated to ensure that there is fairness in the system and everyone receives grades that are equal and equivalent across Wales?
Weinidog, fe wyddoch fy mod wedi ysgrifennu atoch ym mis Awst i ofyn am adolygu'r system, yn dilyn cyhoeddi'r canlyniadau, ac rwy'n falch iawn fod yr adolygiad yn mynd rhagddo. Ond rwy'n poeni am arholiadau, neu arholiadau posibl, yr haf nesaf. Ar hyn o bryd, nid ydym yn gwybod beth fydd yn digwydd yr haf nesaf. Ond gwn hefyd fod llawer o athrawon a disgyblion yn poeni beth fydd yn digwydd gydag arholiadau’r haf nesaf. A ydych yn paratoi cynllun B, a allai fod yn seiliedig ar waith a aseswyd gan athrawon unwaith eto, ond y tro hwn, wedi'i gymedroli i sicrhau bod tegwch yn y system a bod pawb yn cael graddau sy'n gyfartal ac yn gyfwerth ledled Cymru?
Thank you, David. I recognise that practitioners, parents and pupils are concerned about what will happen in the examination series next summer. I have previously said that it is my sincere hope that examinations will be possible, but clearly we have to have contingencies in place if we find ourselves in the situation, for a variety of reasons, where examinations are not possible. As I said, in answer to Suzy Davies, the interim review panel is not just considering the examination series for this last summer, but will be making recommendations for next summer. And, as I said, the interim report will be made available to me in October.
Diolch, David. Rwy'n cydnabod bod ymarferwyr, rhieni a disgyblion yn poeni beth fydd yn digwydd yn y gyfres o arholiadau yr haf nesaf. Rwyf wedi dweud o'r blaen mai fy ngobaith diffuant yw y bydd arholiadau'n bosibl, ond yn amlwg, mae'n rhaid inni gael cynllun wrth gefn os byddwn mewn sefyllfa, am ba bynnag reswm, lle nad yw'n bosibl cynnal arholiadau. Fel y dywedais mewn ymateb i Suzy Davies, mae panel yr adolygiad interim nid yn unig yn ystyried y gyfres o arholiadau ar gyfer yr haf diwethaf, ond byddant yn gwneud argymhellion ar gyfer yr haf nesaf. Ac fel y dywedais, bydd yr adroddiad interim ar gael i mi ym mis Hydref.
2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ddarparu addysg ôl-16 yn ddiogel yn ystod pandemig COVID-19? OQ55616
2. Will the Minister make a statement on the safe delivery of post-16 education during the COVID-19 pandemic? OQ55616
Thank you, Jayne. We have published guidance for post-16 providers to help them operate safely at this time. Colleges and universities must carry out risk assessments to ensure that appropriate measures are put in place to manage the risks of COVID-19 transmission in their institutions.
Diolch, Jayne. Rydym wedi cyhoeddi canllawiau ar gyfer darparwyr addysg ôl-16 i'w helpu i weithredu'n ddiogel ar yr adeg hon. Mae’n rhaid i golegau a phrifysgolion gynnal asesiadau risg i sicrhau bod mesurau priodol yn cael eu rhoi ar waith i reoli'r risg o drosglwyddo COVID-19 yn eu sefydliadau.
Thank you, Minister. Ensuring our young people are able to physically attend school or college is very welcome, and I know that the Minister and teachers across Wales have worked incredibly hard to ensure this has happened, and continues to happen, even in the difficult and changing circumstances we see. However, one concern that I've received from teachers and pupils is around post-16 education in schools. Those young people who are in school are more likely to work part-time and have social contacts from outside their school. However, the social distancing and guidance is the same as for 11-year-olds. There's a perception that sixth-form classes hold fewer pupils, however, I understand that, in some subjects, in some schools, there are over 30 students in a class. What discussions has the Minister had about the guidance for post-16 students in Wales and what has been learnt, following the first month, which could inform future planning?
Diolch, Weinidog. Mae sicrhau bod ein pobl ifanc yn gallu mynychu'r ysgol neu'r coleg yn gam calonogol, a gwn fod y Gweinidog ac athrawon ledled Cymru wedi gweithio'n anhygoel o galed i sicrhau bod hyn wedi digwydd, ac yn parhau i ddigwydd, hyd yn oed yn yr amgylchiadau anodd a newidiol a welwn. Fodd bynnag, mae un pryder a fynegwyd wrthyf gan athrawon a disgyblion yn ymwneud ag addysg ôl-16 mewn ysgolion. Mae'r bobl ifanc sydd yn yr ysgol yn fwy tebygol o weithio'n rhan-amser a chysylltu’n gymdeithasol â phobl y tu allan i'w hysgol. Fodd bynnag, mae'r canllawiau a’r rheolau cadw pellter cymdeithasol yr un fath â'r hyn ydynt ar gyfer plant 11 oed. Ceir canfyddiad fod dosbarthiadau chweched dosbarth yn cynnwys llai o ddisgyblion, ond mewn rhai pynciau, mewn rhai ysgolion, deallaf fod dros 30 o fyfyrwyr mewn dosbarth. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u cael ynglŷn â’r canllawiau ar gyfer myfyrwyr ôl-16 yng Nghymru, a beth a ddysgwyd, yn dilyn y mis cyntaf, a allai lywio cynlluniau ar gyfer y dyfodol?
Thank you very much, Jayne, for that. You're right—our sixth forms come in all shapes and sizes, with class sizes that can vary considerably, but it is correct to say that, sometimes, in popular subjects in large schools, sixth-form classes can indeed have a number of pupils. We have been very clear in our guidance to both schools and colleges that we should look to minimise contacts between groups of students at this particular time, and it is really important that practitioners are able to socially distance from their class.
Clearly, we are keeping under very careful review the operation of both schools and colleges, following the first month, really, of operations. I'm pleased to say that the vast majority of schools have not had a case and, where we have had cases of COVID in pupils or teachers, that's usually a single case in a single institution. We have had cases in our FE colleges, but I'm pleased to say that, working with local test, trace, protect teams, the disruption to learning has been minimised. But, clearly, we're keeping under constant review the guidance to both schools and colleges as a result of the experiences over the last four weeks, and we'll be looking to review guidance in light of what we have learned so far. What's really important to remember is that the advice to date from Public Health Wales is that there is no evidence that schools or colleges are vectors for the virus spreading, and cases that we have seen in schools are a reflection of what we're seeing in our communities.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Jayne. Rydych yn llygad eich lle—mae gennym ddosbarthiadau chwech o bob lliw a llun, a gall maint dosbarthiadau amrywio'n sylweddol, ond mae'n wir, weithiau, mewn pynciau poblogaidd mewn ysgolion mawr, y gall dosbarthiadau chweched dosbarth gynnwys nifer o ddisgyblion. Rydym wedi dweud yn glir iawn yn ein canllawiau i ysgolion a cholegau y dylem geisio lleihau cysylltiadau rhwng grwpiau o fyfyrwyr ar yr adeg hon, ac mae'n bwysig iawn fod addysgwyr yn gallu cadw pellter cymdeithasol oddi wrth eu dosbarth.
Yn amlwg, rydym yn parhau i adolygu gweithrediad ysgolion a cholegau yn ofalus iawn, yn dilyn y mis cyntaf, mewn gwirionedd, o weithgarwch. Rwy'n falch o ddweud nad yw'r rhan fwyaf o ysgolion wedi cael achos, a lle rydym wedi cael achosion o COVID mewn disgyblion neu athrawon, achos unigol mewn un sefydliad ydyw fel arfer. Rydym wedi cael achosion yn ein colegau addysg bellach, ond rwy'n falch o ddweud, wrth weithio gyda thimau profi, olrhain a diogelu lleol, fod hynny wedi arwain at gyn lleied o darfu â phosibl ar ddysgu. Ond yn amlwg, rydym yn parhau i adolygu'r canllawiau i ysgolion a cholegau yn gyson o ganlyniad i'r profiadau dros y pedair wythnos ddiwethaf, ac rydym yn bwriadu adolygu’r canllawiau yng ngoleuni'r hyn rydym wedi'i ddysgu hyd yma. Yr hyn sy'n bwysig iawn i'w gofio yw mai'r cyngor hyd yn hyn gan Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yw nad oes unrhyw dystiolaeth fod ysgolion neu golegau'n fectorau ar gyfer lledaenu'r feirws, ac mae’r achosion a welsom mewn ysgolion yn adlewyrchiad o'r hyn a welwn yn ein cymunedau.
Minister, can I ask you what additional support is in place for learners who have extremely vulnerable people in their households who could be susceptible to COVID? I've got a learner in my own constituency who would like to continue with her post-16 education, but unfortunately her local college has told her that she must attend the college site in order to undertake the A-levels of her choice. As a result of that, she's not able to participate in education at present. Is there advice that you've been able to give to colleges to overcome this particular barrier that some young people are now facing as a result of having siblings or others in their families who may be extremely vulnerable?
Weinidog, a gaf fi ofyn i chi pa gymorth ychwanegol sydd ar waith i ddysgwyr a chanddynt bobl hynod agored i berygl COVID yn eu cartrefi? Mae gennyf ddysgwr yn fy etholaeth a hoffai barhau gyda'i haddysg ôl-16, ond yn anffodus mae ei choleg lleol wedi dweud wrthi fod yn rhaid iddi fynychu safle'r coleg er mwyn dilyn pynciau Safon Uwch o'i dewis. O ganlyniad i hynny, ni all gymryd rhan mewn addysg ar hyn o bryd. A ydych wedi gallu rhoi cyngor i golegau fel y gallant oresgyn y rhwystr y mae rhai pobl ifanc bellach yn ei wynebu o ganlyniad i fod â brodyr a chwiorydd neu eraill yn eu teuluoedd a allai fod yn hynod agored i berygl?
Thank you for that, Darren. We have had regular discussions with both schools and colleges about what reasonable adaptations can be made to support students who may themselves be very vulnerable or feel very vulnerable at this time. It would be important for that student to have a discussion with her college, but if, Darren, you would like to write to me about that particular case, I will make further investigations.
Diolch, Darren. Rydym wedi cael trafodaethau rheolaidd gydag ysgolion a cholegau ynghylch pa addasiadau rhesymol y gellir eu gwneud i gefnogi myfyrwyr a allai fod yn agored iawn i niwed neu'n teimlo'n agored iawn i niwed ar hyn o bryd. Byddai'n bwysig i'r myfyriwr dan sylw gael trafodaeth gyda'i choleg, ond os hoffech ysgrifennu ataf, Darren, am yr achos penodol hwnnw, fe wnaf ymchwiliadau pellach.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr yn gyntaf, Suzy Davies.
Os gallech chi roi eich meicroffon ymlaen, Suzy Davies—iawn, dechreuwch eto.
Questions now from party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Suzy Davies.
If you could turn your microphone on, Suzy Davies—okay, try again.
Sori am hynny.
Sorry about that.
Yes, Minister, I was listening to your response to Jayne Bryant there and that observation that schools and colleges aren't vectors for the spread of COVID. Yet we've seen considerable numbers being sent home from some schools—200 in one case, and over 400 in another. You say you're monitoring what's happening at the moment, but have you learnt anything yet about why further education colleges seem to be doing a better job of minimising face-to-face teaching? They're losing fewer students than schools. Why is that?
Ie, Weinidog, roeddwn yn gwrando ar eich ymateb i Jayne Bryant a'r sylw hwnnw nad yw ysgolion a cholegau yn fectorau ar gyfer lledaeniad COVID. Serch hynny, rydym wedi gweld niferoedd sylweddol yn cael eu hanfon adref o rai ysgolion—200 mewn un achos, dros 400 mewn un arall. Rydych yn dweud eich bod yn monitro'r hyn sy'n digwydd ar hyn o bryd, ond a ydych wedi dysgu unrhyw beth eto ynglŷn â pham yr ymddengys bod colegau addysg bellach yn gwneud yn well o ran sicrhau llai o addysg wyneb yn wyneb? Maent yn colli llai o fyfyrwyr nag ysgolion. Pam hynny?
Thank you, Suzy. As you said, we are keeping in close touch with our local education authorities and our directors of education. And in the case you've just mentioned—400 pupils leaving a school—I myself have spoken to the headteacher in those circumstances to understand why that situation arose. That's why, as I said in answer to Jayne Bryant, we are learning the lessons of these four weeks, where schools have worked incredibly hard to operationalise the guidance that we've made available to them. But clearly, in the light of those experiences, we need to understand what more we can do, how we can improve our guidance in schools, so that they can limit the number of direct contacts, and what other support we can give schools from our TTP teams, to be able to help them make decisions around which students can safely remain in school and not disrupt their education, and which students will, indeed, need to isolate. So, we're looking to review our guidance and, as I said, work closely with our colleagues in Public Health Wales and TTP to ensure that the advice given to headteachers is as good as it needs to be and that we have consistency across TTP teams in Wales.
Diolch, Suzy. Fel y dywedoch chi, rydym yn cadw mewn cysylltiad agos â'n hawdurdodau addysg lleol a'n cyfarwyddwyr addysg. Ac yn yr achos y sonioch chi amdano—400 o ddisgyblion yn gadael ysgol—rwyf wedi siarad â'r pennaeth yn yr amgylchiadau hynny i ddeall pam y cododd y sefyllfa honno. Fel y dywedais yn fy ymateb i Jayne Bryant, dyna pam ein bod yn dysgu gwersi'r pedair wythnos hyn, lle mae ysgolion wedi gweithio'n anhygoel o galed i roi’r canllawiau rydym wedi eu darparu iddynt ar waith. Ond yn amlwg, yng ngoleuni'r profiadau hynny, mae angen inni ddeall beth arall y gallwn ei wneud, sut y gallwn wella ein canllawiau mewn ysgolion, fel y gallant gyfyngu ar nifer y cysylltiadau uniongyrchol, a pha gymorth arall y gallwn ei roi i ysgolion drwy ein timau profi, olrhain a diogelu, er mwyn gallu eu helpu i wneud penderfyniadau i sicrhau y gall myfyrwyr aros yn yr ysgol yn ddiogel, a pheidio ag amharu ar eu haddysg, a pha fyfyrwyr, yn wir, fydd yn gorfod ynysu. Felly rydym yn awyddus i adolygu ein canllawiau, ac fel y dywedais, i weithio'n agos gyda'n cydweithwyr yn Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru a’r timau profi, olrhain a diogelu i sicrhau bod y cyngor a roddir i benaethiaid cystal ag y mae angen iddo fod, a bod gennym gysondeb ar draws y timau profi, olrhain a diogelu yng Nghymru.
Thank you for that. I think it would be helpful as well if colleges within a certain area might be prepared to speak to some of the headteachers in schools within their area about some of the good ideas that they've had.
Further education and higher education have both received over £20 million each from the Welsh Government COVID pot, despite a projected funding gap of more than £400 million for higher education. You signalled in the Welsh Conservative debate last week that that's one of the reasons why you don't support a partial reduction in fees for students who've lost out on the experience they've paid for. But, as we've heard, some students are having to stay in their expensive rooms to log in when they could have done that in a more familiar and cheaper environment at home—a home that many students will be leaving for the first time. None of the £27 million for HE is ring-fenced for student support. What are universities in Wales telling you now about how much of that money is going to unanticipated and speedy emotional and mental well-being support for students, and will they be coming to you for a top-up to the £27 million because of that?
Diolch. Credaf y byddai'n ddefnyddiol hefyd pe bai colegau mewn ardal benodol yn barod i siarad â rhai o'r penaethiaid mewn ysgolion yn eu hardal ynglŷn â rhai o'r syniadau da y maent wedi'u cael.
Mae addysg bellach ac addysg uwch wedi derbyn dros £20 miliwn yr un o bot COVID Llywodraeth Cymru, er gwaethaf y bwlch cyllido a ragwelir o fwy na £400 miliwn ar gyfer addysg uwch. Nodwyd gennych yn nadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yr wythnos diwethaf mai dyna un o'r rhesymau pam nad ydych yn cefnogi gostyngiad rhannol mewn ffioedd i fyfyrwyr sydd wedi colli peth o'r y profiad y maent wedi talu amdano. Ond fel y clywsom, mae rhai myfyrwyr yn gorfod aros yn eu hystafelloedd drud i fewngofnodi pan allent fod wedi gwneud hynny mewn amgylchedd mwy cyfarwydd a rhatach gartref—cartref y bydd llawer o fyfyrwyr yn ei adael am y tro cyntaf. Nid oes ceiniog o'r £27 miliwn ar gyfer addysg uwch wedi'i neilltuo ar gyfer cymorth i fyfyrwyr. Beth y mae prifysgolion yng Nghymru yn ei ddweud wrthych yn awr ynglŷn â faint o'r arian hwnnw sy'n cael ei ddarparu ar gyfer cymorth annisgwyl a chymorth emosiynol a lles meddyliol amserol i fyfyrwyr, ac a fyddant yn gofyn i chi ychwanegu at y £27 miliwn oherwydd hynny?
Suzy, you'll be aware that the £27 million additional money that we've made available to the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales will be delivered to our institutions by the funding council. I met with the chair and the chief executive of our funding council just yesterday. And in my remit letter to them, emotional and mental health support for students is a priority for me, and I would expect part of that £27 million to be used to support universities deliver robust mental health and well-being support to students at this time, and also, potentially, to use some of that funding to ensure that financial distress that some students may experience is also taken into consideration. Obviously, Welsh students who are residing in Wales and studying—well, wherever they study—are entitled to our support programme. But I recognise that many students would usually supplement their income with part-time jobs, which may prove more difficult to come by at this particular time. So, both financial support and mental health support are a priority for me and a priority for the funding council, and we await bids from Welsh institutions to that pot of money, to ensure that that support is available.
Suzy, fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol y bydd y £27 miliwn o arian ychwanegol rydym wedi'i roi i Gyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru yn cael ei ddarparu i'n sefydliadau gan y cyngor cyllido. Cyfarfûm â chadeirydd a phrif weithredwr ein cyngor cyllido ddoe ddiwethaf. Ac yn fy llythyr cylch gwaith atynt, mae cymorth iechyd meddwl ac emosiynol i fyfyrwyr yn flaenoriaeth i mi, a byddwn yn disgwyl i beth o'r £27 miliwn hwnnw gael ei ddefnyddio i gynorthwyo prifysgolion i ddarparu cymorth iechyd meddwl a lles cadarn i fyfyrwyr ar yr adeg hon, a hefyd, o bosibl, i ddefnyddio peth o'r cyllid hwnnw i sicrhau bod y trallod ariannol y gallai rhai myfyrwyr ei wynebu hefyd yn cael ei ystyried. Yn amlwg, mae gan fyfyrwyr o Gymru sy'n byw yng Nghymru ac sy'n astudio—wel, ble bynnag y maent yn astudio—hawl i'n rhaglen gymorth. Ond rwy'n cydnabod y byddai llawer o fyfyrwyr fel arfer yn ychwanegu at eu hincwm drwy swyddi rhan-amser, a allai fod yn anoddach i’w cael ar yr adeg hon. Felly, mae cymorth ariannol a chymorth iechyd meddwl yn flaenoriaeth i mi, ac yn flaenoriaeth i'r cyngor cyllido, ac rydym yn aros am gynigion gan sefydliadau Cymru i'r pot hwnnw o arian, er mwyn sicrhau bod y cymorth hwnnw ar gael.
Thank you for that. That's a good, strong message there to universities, so I certainly hope they're picking that up, because, at some point down the line, of course, we'll be scrutinising you on the spend of that £27 million, and I'm sure you will want that reassurance in the reports that you get back from universities in due course.
On a related matter—you'll know this—concerns have been raised with me, in my region and elsewhere, regarding some confusion about students living in large, off-campus houses in multiple occupation. Now, some set-ups are clearly single-person households in one building, but others can legitimately say that they're one genuine household of friends, sharing all facilities and costs like a family. This will impact on how the occupants of those buildings can respond to lockdown, and those in the latter situation are certainly at an advantage. I accept that this applies to non-students as well. But can you tell us how far down the road Welsh Government is to allowing solitary students to have a limited extended household in order to keep them sane? And, more generally, what concerns have you brought to the attention of the Minister for Housing and Local Government about what is understood by students to constitute an extended household, bearing in mind that they all have their own families, who may be happy to accept their own child in a bubble but not a whole household of friends?
Diolch. Mae honno’n neges dda a chryf i brifysgolion, felly rwy'n sicr yn gobeithio eu bod yn ei chlywed, oherwydd ar ryw adeg, wrth gwrs, byddwn yn craffu arnoch mewn perthynas â gwariant y £27 miliwn hwnnw, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddwch am gael y sicrwydd hwnnw yn yr adroddiadau a gewch yn ôl gan brifysgolion maes o law.
Ar fater cysylltiedig—fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol o hyn—mynegwyd pryderon wrthyf, yn fy rhanbarth ac mewn mannau eraill, yn ymwneud â dryswch ynglŷn â myfyrwyr sy'n byw mewn tai amlfeddiannaeth mawr, oddi ar y campws. Nawr, mae peth eiddo yn amlwg yn aelwydydd un person mewn un adeilad, ond gall eraill ddweud yn gwbl onest eu bod yn un cartref dilys o ffrindiau, a’u bod yn rhannu'r holl gyfleusterau a'r costau fel teulu. Bydd hyn yn effeithio ar sut y gall deiliaid yr adeiladau hynny ymateb i gyfyngiadau symud, ac mae’n sicr fod gan y rhai yn y sefyllfa ddiwethaf fantais. Rwy'n derbyn bod hyn yn berthnasol i bobl nad ydynt yn fyfyrwyr hefyd. Ond a allwch ddweud wrthym pa mor bell y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn mynd o ran caniatáu i fyfyrwyr unigol gael cartref estynedig cyfyngedig er lles eu hiechyd meddwl? Ac yn fwy cyffredinol, pa bryderon rydych wedi eu dwyn i sylw'r Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol ynglŷn â dealltwriaeth myfyrwyr ynghylch beth yw ystyr aelwyd estynedig, gan gofio bod gan bob un ohonynt eu teuluoedd eu hunain, a allai fod yn fwy na pharod i dderbyn eu plentyn eu hunain mewn swigen ond nid aelwyd gyfan o ffrindiau?
Thank you very much for that. Can I assure the Member that I am not just seeking reassurances from individual institutions or the funding council about the levels of support institutions are putting in place for mental health? I met this week with the National Union of Students Wales to understand from them how their members are feeling. I will meet again with them next week, and I will continue to meet with them on a weekly basis so that I can receive reports from them as to how members are feeling. So, there are a number of checks and balances in how we are understanding what is going on on the ground.
I think it’s really important, Suzy, that we make clear that students will not be treated in a less favourable way than permanent residents of Wales. Wales is now their home. Our expectation is that they abide by Welsh regulations and guidance, but we certainly won't be putting additional restrictions in place. Indeed, in some cases, recognising some of the challenges around student accommodation—both on campus and off campus—the ability to share facilities has been made an exception to some of the issues around single households. But, clearly, we will continue to work with the housing Minister to ensure that those students who would be described as a single household are subject to the same consideration when we look at the wider issues related to individuals who find themselves living alone in the pandemic—some who might be vulnerable, some of them who are not vulnerable. But we all need that human contact and, as a Government, we're looking at finding ways in which we can allow that to happen safely, recognising that periods of isolation for those living alone can be particularly challenging.
Diolch yn fawr. A gaf fi hysbysu'r Aelod nad oddi wrth sefydliadau unigol na'r cyngor cyllido yn unig rwy'n ceisio sicrwydd ynglŷn â lefelau’r cymorth y mae sefydliadau yn ei roi tuag at iechyd meddwl? Cyfarfûm yr wythnos hon ag Undeb Cenedlaethol Myfyrwyr Cymru i ddeall ganddynt sut y mae eu haelodau'n teimlo. Byddaf yn cyfarfod â hwy eto yr wythnos nesaf, a byddaf yn parhau i gyfarfod â hwy yn wythnosol er mwyn imi allu cael adroddiadau ganddynt ynglŷn â sut y mae eu haelodau'n teimlo. Felly, mae llawer o wirio a chydbwyso ynghlwm wrth sut rydym yn deall yr hyn sy'n digwydd ar lawr gwlad.
Credaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn, Suzy, ein bod yn nodi'n glir na fydd myfyrwyr yn cael eu trin mewn ffordd lai ffafriol na thrigolion parhaol Cymru. Cymru yw eu cartref bellach. Ein disgwyliad yw eu bod yn cadw at reoliadau a chanllawiau Cymru, ond yn sicr, ni fyddwn yn rhoi cyfyngiadau ychwanegol ar waith. Yn wir, mewn rhai achosion, gan gydnabod rhai o'r heriau sydd ynghlwm wrth ddarpariaethau llety i fyfyrwyr—ar y campws ac oddi ar y campws—mae'r gallu i rannu cyfleusterau wedi'i wneud yn eithriad i rai o'r materion sydd ynghlwm wrth aelwydydd un person. Ond yn amlwg, byddwn yn parhau i weithio gyda'r Gweinidog tai i sicrhau bod y myfyrwyr y gellid eu disgrifio fel aelwydydd un person yn cael yr un ystyriaeth wrth edrych ar y materion ehangach sy'n gysylltiedig ag unigolion sy’n byw ar eu pen eu hunain yn ystod y pandemig—rhai a allai fod yn agored i niwed, rhai nad ydynt yn agored i niwed. Ond mae angen y cyswllt dynol hwnnw ar bob un ohonom, ac fel Llywodraeth, rydym yn ceisio dod o hyd i ffyrdd o ganiatáu i hynny ddigwydd yn ddiogel, gan gydnabod y gall cyfnodau o ynysu i'r rheini sy'n byw ar eu pen eu hunain fod yn arbennig o heriol.
Llefarydd ar ran Plaid Cymru nawr. Helen Mary Jones.
Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Helen Mary Jones.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. Yesterday, Minister, the First Minister said in response to a question from Adam Price regarding students returning home for Christmas that he wouldn't treat students differently from anyone else. Now, I'm very glad to hear what you've just said to Suzy Davies—that you won't treat them less favourably—but I would suggest to the Government that this is a very distinct group of citizens. There can't be many other groups of citizens that will be moving in such large numbers from one community to another at particular times.
If a student is in a situation that they are in a university at Christmastime that is subject to a lockdown, does that mean that they can't go home? Everything that you've just been saying to Suzy Davies about the welfare of students and their mental and emotional well-being is very encouraging, but I would suggest to the Government that students do need to be treated differently, and perhaps what we need is a system whereby all students can be tested before they return home for Christmas, so that they could socially isolate when they get back home, if that's what they need to do—if they get a positive test. Otherwise, we will face, potentially, groups of young people or young people on their own over the Christmas holidays, and I know that you would not want to see that any more than I would.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Lywydd. Ddoe, Weinidog, dywedodd y Prif Weinidog mewn ymateb i gwestiwn gan Adam Price ynglŷn â myfyrwyr yn dychwelyd adref dros y Nadolig na fyddai’n trin myfyrwyr yn wahanol i unrhyw un arall. Nawr, rwy'n falch iawn o glywed yr hyn rydych newydd ei ddweud wrth Suzy Davies—na fyddwch yn eu trin yn llai ffafriol—ond byddwn yn awgrymu i'r Llywodraeth fod hwn yn grŵp unigryw iawn o ddinasyddion. Ni all fod llawer o grwpiau eraill o ddinasyddion a fydd yn symud mewn niferoedd mor fawr o un gymuned i'r llall ar adegau penodol.
Os bydd myfyriwr mewn sefyllfa lle byddant mewn prifysgol o dan gyfyngiadau symud dros y Nadolig, a yw hynny'n golygu na allant fynd adref? Mae popeth rydych newydd ei ddweud wrth Suzy Davies am les myfyrwyr a'u llesiant meddyliol ac emosiynol yn galonogol iawn, ond byddwn yn awgrymu i'r Llywodraeth fod angen trin myfyrwyr yn wahanol, ac efallai mai'r hyn sydd ei angen arnom yw system lle gellir profi pob myfyriwr cyn iddynt ddychwelyd adref ar gyfer y Nadolig, fel y gallent ynysu’n gymdeithasol ar ôl cyrraedd adref, os mai dyna fydd angen iddynt ei wneud—os cânt brawf positif. Fel arall, byddwn yn wynebu'r posibilrwydd o grwpiau o bobl ifanc neu bobl ifanc ar eu pen eu hunain dros wyliau'r Nadolig, a gwn na fyddech am weld hynny fwy nag y byddwn i.
Thank you, Helen Mary, for that. I want to assure the Chamber and, indeed, I want to assure students and parents that it is a priority for me, and a priority for this Government, to ensure that students who are residing and studying at Welsh universities will be able to return home for Christmas. I say that as a Minister, and I say that as a mum who has just sent my eldest daughter to university on Sunday evening. Believe me, she might have views about coming home for Christmas, but I desperately want her home for Christmas with me.
So, we will be working with our health Minister, working with our individual institutions and, indeed, working with the UK Government to ensure that the circumstances can be put in place to allow that to happen. SAGE, in their advice to the UK Government, is very, very clear that this needs to be worked out on a UK-wide basis because of the student flows across our borders. Individual students will be wanting to cross county and country borders, so, therefore, Governments need to work together on creating the circumstances that will allow that to happen. I discussed this matter with the universities Minister in the UK Government yesterday. I will discuss it again tomorrow with Gavin Williamson, and we are determined to ensure that students, when they want to, will be able to return home. But, clearly, we need to put the circumstances in place where they can do that safely.
Diolch, Helen Mary. Hoffwn roi sicrwydd i’r Siambr, ac yn wir, hoffwn roi sicrwydd i fyfyrwyr a rhieni fod sicrhau y bydd myfyrwyr sy’n preswylio ac yn astudio ym mhrifysgolion Cymru yn gallu dychwelyd adref ar gyfer y Nadolig yn flaenoriaeth i mi, ac yn flaenoriaeth i’r Llywodraeth hon. Dywedaf hynny fel Gweinidog, a dywedaf hynny fel mam sydd newydd anfon fy merch hynaf i’r brifysgol nos Sul. Credwch fi, efallai fod ganddi ei barn ei hun ynglŷn â dod adref ar gyfer y Nadolig, ond rwy’n hynod o awyddus iddi fod gartref gyda mi dros y Nadolig.
Felly, byddwn yn gweithio gyda'n Gweinidog iechyd, yn gweithio gyda'n sefydliadau unigol, ac yn wir, yn gweithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU i sicrhau y gellir rhoi'r amgylchiadau ar waith i ganiatáu i hynny ddigwydd. Mae SAGE, yn eu cyngor i Lywodraeth y DU, wedi dweud yn glir iawn fod angen mynd i’r afael â hyn ledled y DU gyfan oherwydd llif y myfyrwyr ar draws ein ffiniau. Bydd myfyrwyr unigol yn dymuno croesi ffiniau siroedd a gwledydd, felly mae angen i Lywodraethau weithio gyda'i gilydd i greu'r amgylchiadau a fydd yn caniatáu i hynny ddigwydd. Trafodais y mater hwn gyda’r Gweinidog prifysgolion yn Llywodraeth y DU ddoe. Byddaf yn ei drafod eto yfory gyda Gavin Williamson, ac rydym yn benderfynol o sicrhau y bydd myfyrwyr yn gallu dychwelyd adref pan fyddant yn dymuno gwneud hynny. Ond yn amlwg, mae angen inni roi'r amgylchiadau ar waith er mwyn iddynt allu gwneud hynny'n ddiogel.
Thank you, Minister. So, what you're telling the Chamber today is that you will be treating students, potentially, differently from other groups of people. If that's the case, I'm very glad indeed to hear it. I fully support your point about trying to develop a UK-wide response to this, because, obviously, we have a lot of cross-border flow. I would put it to you, however, that if the UK Government acting as the Government for England fail to sort themselves out on this, I do hope that there will be a plan B from the Welsh Government.
If I can turn, then, to students who are currently at university but not receiving any direct teaching or only receiving very minimal amounts of face-to-face teaching, there will be some of those students who would wish to return home and to be able to do their remote learning from there. What's the Government's position on that at the moment? For example, if you're, let's say, a student in Aberystwyth whose home is in RCT, is it permissible for that student to come from Aberystwyth to RCT to study for a period of weeks if that's what they feel they need to do, and is it then permissible for them to return to the university when blended learning and face-to-face learning can start again? It is quite a complex situation, I think, for students, and I think they would appreciate more clarity.
I wonder if you can give us a sense as well this afternoon, Minister, because I know you'll have your finger on the pulse with this, as to how much blended learning is taking place, how much actual face-to-face learning are students getting. I don't support, as you know, the Conservative position that would have students having their fees repaid, simply because I don't think our institutions can afford it, but I do think that if students are only getting very minimal or none at all in terms of face-to-face teaching, they ought to be allowed to go home to be with their families, if we can do that safely, in order that they can get that emotional support. Many of them, especially first years, of course, will be self-isolating potentially with people they've never met before, and that's not a happy place for an 18-year-old to be.
Diolch, Weinidog. Felly, rydych yn dweud wrth y Siambr heddiw y byddwch yn trin myfyrwyr, o bosibl, yn wahanol i grwpiau eraill o bobl. Os yw hynny'n wir, rwy'n falch iawn o'i glywed. Rwy’n llwyr gefnogi eich pwynt ynglŷn â cheisio datblygu ymateb i hyn ar sail y DU gyfan, oherwydd yn amlwg, mae gennym gryn dipyn o lif trawsffiniol. Fodd bynnag, os bydd Llywodraeth y DU, gan weithredu fel Llywodraeth Lloegr, yn methu rhoi trefn ar eu hunain mewn perthynas â hyn, rwy'n dweud wrthych fy mod yn gobeithio y bydd cynllun B gan Lywodraeth Cymru.
Os caf droi, felly, at fyfyrwyr sydd yn y brifysgol ar hyn o bryd ond nad ydynt yn cael unrhyw addysgu wyneb yn wyneb neu ond ychydig o addysg wyneb yn wyneb, bydd rhai o'r myfyrwyr hynny'n dymuno dychwelyd adref a dysgu o bell oddi yno. Beth yw barn y Llywodraeth ar hynny ar hyn o bryd? Er enghraifft, os ydych, gadewch inni ddweud, yn fyfyriwr yn Aberystwyth a bod eich cartref yn RhCT, a oes gan y cyfryw fyfyriwr hawl i ddod o Aberystwyth i RhCT i astudio am gyfnod o wythnosau os ydynt yn teimlo bod angen iddynt wneud hynny, ac a oes ganddynt hawl wedyn i ddychwelyd i'r brifysgol pan fydd modd i ddysgu cyfunol a dysgu wyneb yn wyneb ailgychwyn? Credaf ei bod yn sefyllfa eithaf cymhleth i fyfyrwyr, a chredaf y byddent yn gwerthfawrogi mwy o eglurder.
Tybed a allwch roi syniad inni hefyd y prynhawn yma, Weinidog, gan y gwn y bydd eich bys ar y pwls mewn perthynas â hyn, faint o ddysgu cyfunol sy'n mynd rhagddo, faint o ddysgu wyneb yn wyneb y mae myfyrwyr yn ei wneud. Fel y gwyddoch, nid wyf yn cefnogi safbwynt y Ceidwadwyr sy’n awyddus i weld ffioedd yn cael eu had-dalu i fyfyrwyr, gan nad wyf yn credu y gall ein sefydliadau fforddio hynny, ond os yw myfyrwyr yn cael fawr iawn o addysg wyneb yn wyneb, os o gwbl, rwy'n credu y dylid caniatáu iddynt fynd adref i fod gyda’u teuluoedd, os gallwn wneud hynny’n ddiogel, er mwyn iddynt gael y cymorth emosiynol hwnnw. Bydd llawer ohonynt, yn enwedig myfyrwyr ar eu blwyddyn gyntaf wrth gwrs, yn hunanynysu gyda phobl nad ydynt erioed wedi cyfarfod â hwy o'r blaen o bosibl, ac nid yw hwnnw'n lle hapus i unigolyn 18 oed fod.
Firstly, with regard to the suspension of face-to-face learning in Aberystwyth, that decision was taken late on Sunday evening; it will be reviewed on Friday and I know it is the sincere hope of the university to be able to move back to a blended learning approach. A quick survey of social media will demonstrate to you that our institutions across Wales are already delivering a blended learning approach, whether that be our medics back doing face-to-face learning in Cardiff University, whether that's engineering students at Trinity Saint David, whether that's history students at Swansea, or, indeed, something that is of particular interest to me, our ITE, our education students at Cardiff Met, who are out and about, actually, doing their learning outside as part of their induction into the university and developing their skills in delivering outdoor learning activities. So, universities are working incredibly hard to deliver that blended learning approach.
What's really important to me, Helen Mary, and I'm sure it is to you, is that it needs to be a quality experience. Lectures that are delivered online need to be good lectures and good experiences, as well as that face-to-face contact. That's why I've received assurances from HEFCW yesterday that they will be monitoring the quality of the blended learning approach very, very carefully. And let me say, blended learning and face-to-face contact is not just important in the context of learning. It is an important part of how universities can check in with the welfare of their students, by having an opportunity to see them face-to-face, and I know a great deal of time, effort and resources have gone in to, for instance, expanding university estates and creating more space to allow that to happen safely. So, for instance, in the case of Aberystwyth, they have actually recommissioned buildings that had previously been mothballed so that they can indeed deliver that face-to-face contact in small tutorial groups, and I know that they're keen to continue to do so as soon as is possible.
Yn gyntaf, o ran atal dysgu wyneb yn wyneb yn Aberystwyth, gwnaed y penderfyniad hwnnw yn hwyr nos Sul; bydd yn cael ei adolygu ddydd Gwener a gwn fod y brifysgol yn gobeithio gallu newid yn ôl i ddull dysgu cyfunol. Bydd cipolwg ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol yn dangos i chi fod ein sefydliadau ledled Cymru eisoes yn darparu dull dysgu cyfunol, boed yn fyfyrwyr meddygol sydd yn ôl yn dysgu wyneb yn wyneb ym Mhrifysgol Caerdydd, neu fyfyrwyr peirianneg ym mhrifysgol y Drindod Dewi Sant, neu fyfyrwyr hanes yn Abertawe, neu'n wir, rhywbeth sydd o ddiddordeb arbennig i mi, ein haddysg gychwynnol i athrawon, ein myfyrwyr addysg ym Mhrifysgol Metropolitan Caerdydd, sydd allan yn dysgu yn yr awyr agored fel rhan o'u cyfnod sefydlu yn y brifysgol ac yn datblygu eu sgiliau'n darparu gweithgareddau dysgu awyr agored. Felly, mae prifysgolion yn gweithio'n anhygoel o galed i ddarparu’r dull dysgu cyfunol hwnnw.
Yr hyn sy'n bwysig iawn i mi, Helen Mary, ac rwy'n siŵr ei fod yn bwysig i chithau, yw bod angen iddo fod yn brofiad o safon. Mae’n rhaid i ddarlithoedd a ddarperir ar-lein fod yn ddarlithoedd da ac yn brofiadau da, yn ogystal â'r cyswllt wyneb yn wyneb hwnnw. Dyna pam fy mod wedi cael sicrwydd gan CCAUC ddoe y byddant yn monitro ansawdd y dull dysgu cyfunol yn ofalus iawn. A gadewch imi ddweud, nid yng nghyd-destun dysgu yn unig y mae dysgu cyfunol a chyswllt wyneb yn wyneb yn bwysig. Mae'n rhan bwysig o sut y gall prifysgolion gadw llygad ar les eu myfyrwyr, drwy gael cyfle i'w gweld wyneb yn wyneb, a gwn fod llawer iawn o amser, ymdrech ac adnoddau wedi’u rhoi, er enghraifft, i ehangu ystadau prifysgolion a chreu mwy o le i ganiatáu i hynny ddigwydd yn ddiogel. Felly, er enghraifft, yn achos Aberystwyth, maent wedi ailgomisiynu adeiladau nad oeddent yn cael eu defnyddio mwyach fel y gallant ddarparu'r cyswllt wyneb yn wyneb hwnnw mewn grwpiau tiwtorial bach, a gwn eu bod yn awyddus i barhau i wneud hynny cyn gynted â phosibl.
3. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gefnogaeth i ddysgwyr sy'n derbyn eu haddysg yn y cartref yng Nghymru? OQ55597
3. Will the Minister make a statement on support for home-educated learners in Wales? OQ55597
I have allocated funding of £400,000 to local authorities this year to provide support to home-educating families in recognition of the additional costs that these families may incur when providing resources and opportunities that are typically available free in school. This provision of funding is unique to Wales.
Rwyf wedi dyrannu £400,000 o gyllid i awdurdodau lleol eleni i roi cymorth i deuluoedd sy'n darparu addysg yn y cartref, gan gydnabod y costau ychwanegol y gallai'r teuluoedd hyn eu hwynebu wrth ddarparu adnoddau a chyfleoedd sydd fel arfer ar gael am ddim yn yr ysgol. Mae'r ddarpariaeth hon o gyllid yn unigryw i Gymru.
I'm very grateful for that response, Minister, and very grateful for the funding that has been made available for home-educated young people. One of the challenges that many of those who have been home educated have faced over the past examination period is that obviously they're not at centres whereby grades could have been provided to them, and as a result, many are having to face the prospect, potentially, of examinations next year. Can you tell us what assurances you can give to the parents of home-educated learners that there will be an opportunity for them to sit their exams next year, so that they won't have to lose out when compared to their peers in terms of being able to have access to the grades that they believe they should have secured this year?
Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn am eich ymateb, Weinidog, ac yn ddiolchgar iawn am yr arian sydd ar gael i bobl ifanc sy'n derbyn eu haddysg yn y cartref. Un o'r heriau y mae llawer o'r rheini sy’n derbyn eu haddysg yn y cartref wedi eu hwynebu dros y cyfnod arholi diwethaf, yn amlwg, yw nad ydynt mewn canolfannau lle gallai graddau fod wedi cael eu rhoi iddynt, ac o ganlyniad, mae llawer yn gorfod wynebu'r posibilrwydd o arholiadau y flwyddyn nesaf. A allwch ddweud wrthym pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi i rieni dysgwyr sy'n derbyn eu haddysg gartref y byddant yn cael cyfle i sefyll eu harholiadau y flwyddyn nesaf, fel na fydd yn rhaid iddynt fod ar eu colled o gymharu â'u cyfoedion o ran gallu cael y graddau y credant y dylent fod wedi'u cael eleni?
Thank you, Darren, for the recognition of the financial resources that have been made available. As I said in answer to earlier questions, it is my sincere hope that examinations will be able to go ahead next year. However, we know that this virus and the pandemic is unpredictable, so we do need to have other provision in place, and we will need to ensure this time—because we have more time to plan—that the specific needs of children who are not attached to a specific centre have the opportunity to be awarded a grade. So, I know that this is under consideration at the moment.
Diolch, Darren, am gydnabod yr adnoddau ariannol sydd wedi’u darparu. Fel y dywedais wrth ateb cwestiynau cynharach, fy ngobaith yw y bydd modd cynnal arholiadau y flwyddyn nesaf. Fodd bynnag, gwyddom fod y feirws hwn a'r pandemig yn anrhagweladwy, felly mae angen inni gael darpariaeth arall ar waith, a bydd angen inni sicrhau y tro hwn—gan fod gennym fwy o amser i gynllunio—fod anghenion penodol plant nad ydynt yn gysylltiedig â chanolfan benodol yn cael cyfle i gael gradd. Felly, gwn fod hyn dan ystyriaeth ar hyn o bryd.
Minister, home education can be an informed and positive choice for families and children, so the additional funding from Welsh Government is really welcome. But in June, you announced that due to the pressures of responding to the COVID crisis, it wouldn't be possible to proceed with the proposals set out in the consultation on home education statutory guidance and draft database regulations. You wrote reassuringly to the Protecting Home Education Wales organisation explaining that you hoped they would be taken forward by the next Government at the earliest opportunity, and that new or revised proposals would be subject to public consultation. So, could I ask, Minister, would that consultation also take into account any further representations by the Children's Commissioner for Wales or by child and safeguarding organisations on how these proposals—recognising they're primarily focused on educational support—can also assist child safeguarding in Wales?
Weinidog, gall addysg yn y cartref fod yn ddewis gwybodus a chadarnhaol i deuluoedd a phlant, felly mae'r cyllid ychwanegol gan Lywodraeth Cymru i’w groesawu’n fawr. Ond ym mis Mehefin, fe gyhoeddoch chi, yn sgil pwysau ymateb i argyfwng COVID, na fyddai modd bwrw ymlaen â'r cynigion a nodwyd yn yr ymgynghoriad ar ganllawiau statudol ar gyfer addysg yn y cartref a rheoliadau drafft y gronfa ddata addysg. Fe ysgrifennoch chi at sefydliad Diogelu Addysg yn y Cartref Cymru i’w darbwyllo eich bod yn gobeithio y byddai’r Llywodraeth nesaf yn bwrw ymlaen â hwy ar y cyfle cyntaf, ac y byddai cynigion newydd neu ddiwygiedig yn destun ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus. Felly, a gaf fi ofyn, Weinidog, a fyddai'r ymgynghoriad hwnnw hefyd yn ystyried unrhyw sylwadau pellach gan Gomisiynydd Plant Cymru neu gan sefydliadau plant a diogelu ar sut y gall y cynigion hyn—gan gydnabod eu bod yn canolbwyntio'n bennaf ar gymorth addysgol—gynorthwyo gwaith diogelu plant yng Nghymru yn ogystal?
Huw, I can give you that assurance that any further consultation on these proposals will indeed take into consideration the views of everybody that has something that they feel that they can contribute. It is disappointing that we have found ourselves in the position where we cannot proceed in the way I had intended; it is regrettable indeed. But I should stress that despite the inability at this time, due to pressures of COVID, not to proceed with new legislation, local education authorities still remain under the legal obligation to ensure that all children are in receipt of a suitable education, wherever that education is delivered, and that hasn't changed. We issued guidance to local authorities earlier in the year about how they could continue to fulfil that function and support home-educating families during the pandemic, and we're looking to spread good practice across local authorities in that regard, so that where improvements can happen, and need to happen, there are examples of how that can be achieved.
Huw, gallaf roi'r sicrwydd i chi y bydd unrhyw ymgynghoriad pellach ar y cynigion hyn yn ystyried barn pob un a chanddynt rywbeth y maent yn teimlo y gallant ei gyfrannu. Mae'n siomedig ein bod mewn sefyllfa lle na allwn fwrw ymlaen yn y ffordd roeddwn wedi bwriadu; mae'n anffodus iawn. Ond er gwaethaf yr anallu ar hyn o bryd, oherwydd pwysau COVID, i fwrw ymlaen â deddfwriaeth newydd, dylwn bwysleisio bod awdurdodau addysg lleol yn dal i fod dan rwymedigaeth gyfreithiol i sicrhau bod pob plentyn yn cael addysg addas, ni waeth ble y darperir yr addysg honno, ac nid yw hynny wedi newid. Fe gyhoeddwyd canllawiau gennym i awdurdodau lleol yn gynharach eleni ynglŷn â sut y gallent barhau i gyflawni'r swyddogaeth honno a chefnogi teuluoedd sy'n darparu addysg yn y cartref yn ystod y pandemig, ac rydym yn awyddus i rannu arferion da ar draws awdurdodau lleol yn hynny o beth, er mwyn sicrhau, lle gall gwelliannau ddigwydd, a lle mae angen iddynt ddigwydd, fod enghreifftiau i’w cael o sut y gellir cyflawni hynny.
4. Pa gamau y mae'r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i gefnogi iechyd meddwl myfyrwyr addysg uwch yng Nghymru? OQ55617
4. What steps is the Minister taking to support the mental health of higher education students in Wales? OQ55617
I have remitted HEFCW to work with partners in the HE sector to address student mental health and well-being. To support this work, I allocated HEFCW £3.5 million last year to support well-being and health in higher education, including student mental health.
Rwyf wedi nodi y dylai cylch gwaith CCAUC gynnwys gweithio gyda phartneriaid yn y sector addysg uwch i fynd i'r afael ag iechyd meddwl a lles myfyrwyr. Er mwyn cefnogi'r gwaith hwn, dyrannais £3.5 miliwn i CCAUC y llynedd i gefnogi iechyd a lles mewn addysg uwch, gan gynnwys iechyd meddwl myfyrwyr.
Thank you, Minister. I know that you are very well aware that I share the concerns raised by other Members about the mental health of higher education students at this very difficult time, and also that the committee has written to all vice-chancellors in Wales to seek assurances about support for students. But what I wanted to ask about today was specifically suicide prevention. I was very grateful to you for meeting with me and James Murray, whose son Ben tragically died by suicide at Bristol university two years ago. Can I ask, following that meeting, what update there is in terms of encouraging universities to embed Papyrus's excellent 'Suicide-safer Universities' guide in their work? Thank you.
Diolch, Weinidog. Gwn eich bod yn ymwybodol iawn fy mod yn rhannu’r pryderon a godwyd gan Aelodau eraill ynghylch iechyd meddwl myfyrwyr addysg uwch ar yr adeg anodd hon, a hefyd fod y pwyllgor wedi ysgrifennu at bob is-ganghellor yng Nghymru i ofyn am sicrwydd ynghylch cymorth i fyfyrwyr. Ond yr hyn roeddwn am ofyn amdano’n benodol heddiw oedd atal hunanladdiad. Roeddwn yn ddiolchgar iawn i chi am gyfarfod â mi a James Murray, y bu farw ei fab Ben mewn amgylchiadau trasig drwy hunanladdiad ym mhrifysgol Bryste ddwy flynedd yn ôl. A gaf fi ofyn, yn dilyn y cyfarfod hwnnw, pa ddiweddariad sydd i’w gael o ran annog prifysgolion i ymgorffori canllawiau rhagorol Papyrus, 'Suicide-safer Universities’, yn eu gwaith? Diolch.
Thank you for that question, Lynne, and also thank you for the opportunity to meet with yourself and Mr Murray, whose testimony was powerful indeed. He outlined, very clearly, the steps that all institutions can take to make them as safe as possible for young people. As you're aware, I gave a commitment, during that meeting, that we would be pursing the issue of Papyrus's advice, to see what steps universities were taking to implement that advice. I would like to reassure all Members that each university, prior to the start of the academic year, have been asked to prepare COVID plans, and one of the questions that we were asking in those plans is what steps they were going to take to support mental health at this time. So, whilst COVID brings new challenges, it is a particularly important aspect of universities' work at this time, recognising that people could feel additional vulnerabilities and additional isolation, worries and anxieties on top of what we would usually see at the start of the academic year. We will continue to monitor their progress via the funding council, and indeed with my regular meetings with NUS Wales.
Diolch am eich cwestiwn, Lynne, a diolch hefyd am y cyfle i gyfarfod â chi a Mr Murray, ac roedd ei dystiolaeth yn bwerus iawn. Amlinellodd yn glir iawn y camau y gall pob sefydliad eu cymryd i sicrhau eu bod mor ddiogel â phosibl i bobl ifanc. Fel y gwyddoch, gwneuthum ymrwymiad yn y cyfarfod hwnnw y byddem yn mynd i’r afael â mater cyngor Papyrus, i weld pa gamau roedd prifysgolion yn eu cymryd i weithredu'r cyngor hwnnw. Hoffwn sicrhau pob Aelod ein bod wedi gofyn i bob prifysgol baratoi cynlluniau COVID cyn dechrau'r flwyddyn academaidd, ac un o'r cwestiynau roeddem yn eu gofyn yn y cynlluniau hynny yw pa gamau y byddant yn eu cymryd i gefnogi iechyd meddwl ar yr adeg hon. Felly, er bod COVID yn peri heriau newydd, mae'n agwedd arbennig o bwysig ar waith prifysgolion ar hyn o bryd, gan gydnabod y gallai pobl deimlo’n fwy agored i niwed ac yn fwy ynysig, a wynebu pryderon yn ychwanegol at yr hyn y byddem fel arfer yn ei weld ar ddechrau’r flwyddyn academaidd. Byddwn yn parhau i fonitro eu cynnydd drwy'r cyngor cyllido, ac yn wir, drwy fy nghyfarfodydd rheolaidd ag Undeb Cenedlaethol Myfyrwyr Cymru.
Minister, in earlier questions you said that this has to be a UK-wide approach to get students home for Christmas, and I'd agree on that basis, given the cross-border flows that happen with students. The education Minister—the Secretary of State for Education I should say, sorry, in London, highlighted to the House of Commons yesterday that he could see that there'll be a formal suspension of face-to-face lecture time and tutorials, and everything would move online so that a two-week period of isolation could be undertaken by students before they left their universities to head home before Christmas. Is that a course of action you subscribe to?
Weinidog, mewn cwestiynau cynharach, fe ddywedoch chi fod yn rhaid i hwn fod yn ddull DU gyfan o sicrhau bod myfyrwyr yn cyrraedd adref ar gyfer y Nadolig, a byddwn yn cytuno ar y sail honno, o ystyried y llif trawsffiniol sy'n digwydd gyda myfyrwyr. Fe wnaeth y Gweinidog addysg—yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Addysg, dylwn ddweud, mae'n ddrwg gennyf, yn Llundain, ddweud wrth Dŷ'r Cyffredin ddoe y gallai weld y bydd amser darlithoedd a thiwtorialau wyneb yn wyneb yn cael eu hatal yn ffurfiol, ac y byddai popeth yn symud ar-lein fel y gallai myfyrwyr ynysu am bythefnos cyn iddynt adael eu prifysgolion i fynd adref cyn y Nadolig. A yw hwnnw'n gam gweithredu rydych yn cytuno ag ef?
Andrew, as you say, it's important that we have a UK approach, if at all possible; that is what has been recommended by SAGE. And, as you said, there are significant cross-border flows of students—Welsh students into England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, and vice versa, and therefore a co-ordinated approach, I believe, is best. I will be discussing a range of options with Gavin Williamson when I meet him later this week.
Andrew, fel y dywedwch, mae'n bwysig fod gennym ddull ar gyfer y DU gyfan, os oes modd; dyna sydd wedi'i argymell gan SAGE. Ac fel y dywedoch chi, ceir llif trawsffiniol sylweddol o fyfyrwyr—myfyrwyr o Gymru i mewn i Loegr, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon, a’r ffordd arall, ac felly dull cydgysylltiedig sydd orau yn fy marn i. Byddaf yn trafod ystod o opsiynau gyda Gavin Williamson pan fyddaf yn cyfarfod ag ef yn ddiweddarach yr wythnos hon.
5. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n eu cymryd i sicrhau nad yw addysg plant a phobl ifanc yn cael ei tharfu arni yn ystod y chwe mis nesaf? OQ55604
5. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to ensure there are no disruptions to children and young people's education during the next six months? OQ55604
I published learning guidance in the summer, which set out our priorities for all scenarios, including blended learning. I have also announced a Recruit, Recover and Raise Standards programme and extra support for A-level students, and I have modified the curriculum requirements to take pressure off schools.
Cyhoeddais ganllawiau dysgu yn yr haf a oedd yn nodi ein blaenoriaethau ar gyfer pob senario, gan gynnwys dysgu cyfunol. Rwyf hefyd wedi cyhoeddi rhaglen Recriwtio, Adfer a Chodi Safonau a chymorth ychwanegol i fyfyrwyr Safon Uwch, ac rwyf wedi addasu gofynion y cwricwlwm i leddfu’r pwysau ar ysgolion.
Thank you, Minister. Unfortunately, in recent weeks we have discovered just how hard it is to keep coronavirus in check. Future outbreaks are sadly inevitable. What we have to do is ensure that those outbreaks do not disrupt a single day of education. Minister, we have seen entire year groups sent home as a result of infections, and while we do everything possible to prevent the infections and stop such actions being necessary, we also have to prepare for the worst. Minister, what actions can you take to ensure a seamless transition from in-person to online learning, and will you ensure that schools are equipped to deliver classes virtually as opposed to providing self-paced learning?
Diolch, Weinidog. Yn anffodus, yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf, rydym wedi darganfod pa mor anodd yw cadw rheolaeth ar y coronafeirws. Yn anffodus, mae rhagor o achosion yn y dyfodol yn anochel. Yr hyn y bydd yn rhaid inni ei wneud yw sicrhau nad yw'r achosion hynny'n tarfu ar un diwrnod o addysg. Weinidog, rydym wedi gweld grwpiau blwyddyn cyfan yn cael eu hanfon adref o ganlyniad i heintiau, ac er ein bod yn gwneud popeth a allwn i atal yr heintiau ac i atal camau o'r fath rhag bod yn angenrheidiol, mae'n rhaid inni hefyd baratoi ar gyfer y gwaethaf. Weinidog, pa gamau y gallwch eu cymryd i sicrhau trosglwyddiad di-dor o ddysgu wyneb yn wyneb i ddysgu ar-lein, ac a wnewch chi sicrhau bod ysgolion yn barod i ddarparu dosbarthiadau rhithwir yn hytrach na bod y dysgwyr yn dysgu ar eu cyflymder eu hunain?
Can I thank the Member for the supplementary question? Can I make it absolutely clear to the Member that whilst we have indeed seen disruption to education this term, 1,299 Welsh state schools have not suffered a COVID case to date? So, I think we just need to remember that, and give thanks to those teachers, support staff, governing bodies and local education authorities that are doing everything possible to minimise disruption to children at this time.
The Member will be aware that we have invested significantly in recent years in digital learning, both in terms of the infrastructure for individual schools, the provision of additional pieces of equipment for individual students and connectivity for students who don't have it at home. Just to give you an example of how schools are preparing to deal with disruption, during the month of September so far, since schools started back, we have seen the establishment of 25,000 Google classrooms; that is more Google classrooms set up in the period of one month than we have seen over a period of years. Teachers and schools are taking all steps necessary to be able to move to seamless synchronous and asynchronous learning should disruption happen to an individual group of students so that they can keep learning at this time.
A gaf fi ddiolch i'r Aelod am ei chwestiwn atodol? Er ein bod wedi gweld tarfu ar addysg y tymor hwn, a gaf fi ddweud yn gwbl glir wrth yr Aelod nad oes 1,299 o’r ysgolion gwladol yng Nghymru wedi cael achos o COVID hyd yn hyn? Felly, credaf fod angen inni gofio hynny, a diolch i'r athrawon, staff cymorth, cyrff llywodraethu ac awdurdodau addysg lleol sy'n gwneud popeth a allant i sicrhau cyn lleied o darfu â phosibl ar blant ar yr adeg hon.
Bydd yr Aelod yn ymwybodol ein bod wedi buddsoddi'n sylweddol yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf mewn dysgu digidol, o ran y seilwaith ar gyfer ysgolion unigol, darparu darnau ychwanegol o offer ar gyfer myfyrwyr unigol a chysylltedd i fyfyrwyr nad oes cysylltedd ganddynt gartref. Un enghraifft i chi o sut y mae ysgolion yn paratoi i ymdopi â tharfu yw ein bod wedi gweld, ym mis Medi hyd yma, ers i’r ysgolion ailgychwyn, 25,000 o ystafelloedd dosbarth Google yn cael eu sefydlu; mae hynny'n fwy o ystafelloedd dosbarth Google wedi’u sefydlu mewn cyfnod o fis nag a welsom dros gyfnod o flynyddoedd. Mae athrawon ac ysgolion yn rhoi pob cam angenrheidiol ar waith i allu newid i ddysgu di-dor cydamserol ac anghydamserol os ceir tarfu ar grŵp unigol o fyfyrwyr fel y gallant barhau i ddysgu ar yr adeg hon.
Minister, good afternoon. I'm sure you'll join me in recognising the courage and resilience of our children as they return to school in what is a very worrying time for them and their parents. What thoughts have you given to providing more pastoral support and care to children in Wales, particularly in primary schools and nurseries at this time? In recent years, there's been an increasing demand for counselling services amongst schoolchildren, often discussed in this Chamber. Particularly now the COVID-19 pandemic is with us, we are seeing further disrupted children. So, how are you planning to increase counselling capacity in our schools, build resilience and support children?
Weinidog, prynhawn da. Rwy'n siŵr y gwnewch chi ymuno â mi i gydnabod dewrder a gwytnwch ein plant wrth iddynt ddychwelyd i'r ysgol mewn cyfnod sy'n peri cryn ofid iddynt hwy a'u rhieni. Pa ystyriaeth rydych wedi’i rhoi i ddarparu mwy o gymorth a gofal bugeiliol i blant yng Nghymru, yn enwedig mewn ysgolion cynradd a meithrinfeydd ar yr adeg hon? Yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf, cafwyd galw cynyddol am wasanaethau cwnsela ymhlith plant ysgol, mater a drafodir yn aml yn y Siambr hon. Yn enwedig gan ein bod bellach yn wynebu pandemig COVID-19, rydym yn gweld rhagor o darfu ar addysg plant. Felly, sut rydych yn bwriadu cynyddu capasiti cwnsela yn ein hysgolion, meithrin gwytnwch a chefnogi plant?
Good afternoon to you, Nick. Like you, I am in awe of the courage and resilience that have been shown by our young people at this time. Supporting them with their mental health and their well-being is important, and that's an important reason why we were determined to reopen schools fully for all children for this academic year and to keep them open, because we understand the impact that lockdown and not being in school has had on many children.
But, clearly, for some children, the return to school, whilst it is a happy one—they could, indeed, have anxieties as a result of the pandemic or the situation that they themselves or their families may find themselves in. That's why I have worked hard with my colleague the Minister for health to provide additional resources for school counselling this year, with a particular emphasis on being able to expand support in the primary sector, not through traditional counselling methods, which are not really appropriate for our younger children, but with a strong focus on family therapy and group work so that our youngest children can also be supported at this time.
Prynhawn da i chi, Nick. Fel chithau, rwy’n llawn edmygedd at ddewrder a gwytnwch ein pobl ifanc ar yr adeg hon. Mae eu cefnogi gyda'u hiechyd meddwl a'u lles yn bwysig, ac mae hynny'n rheswm pwysig pam ein bod yn benderfynol o ailagor ysgolion yn llawn ar gyfer pob plentyn yn y flwyddyn academaidd hon a'u cadw ar agor, gan ein bod yn deall yr effaith y mae’r cyfyngiadau symud a pheidio â bod yn yr ysgol wedi’i chael ar lawer o blant.
Ond yn amlwg, i rai plant, mae dychwelyd i'r ysgol, er bod hynny’n braf—gallent, yn wir, fod yn bryderus o ganlyniad i'r pandemig neu'r sefyllfa y gallent hwy neu eu teuluoedd fod ynddi. Dyna pam rwyf wedi gweithio'n galed gyda fy nghyd-Aelod y Gweinidog iechyd i ddarparu adnoddau ychwanegol ar gyfer cwnsela mewn ysgolion eleni, gyda phwyslais arbennig ar allu ehangu cymorth yn y sector cynradd, nid drwy ddulliau cwnsela traddodiadol, nad ydynt yn addas ar gyfer ein plant iau mewn gwirionedd, ond gyda ffocws cryf ar therapi teulu a gwaith grŵp fel y gellir cefnogi ein plant ieuengaf ar yr adeg hon.
I just wondered if you could tell us a little bit more about the attendance rates at school, because I think that will give us an indication of how effective schools have been at reaching out to young people who may be feeling very anxious about returning to school and assuring them that they are going to be safe, and that they should be returning to school for their well-being.
Tybed a allech ddweud ychydig mwy wrthym am gyfraddau presenoldeb mewn ysgolion, gan y credaf y bydd hynny'n rhoi syniad inni o ba mor effeithiol y mae ysgolion wedi bod wrth estyn allan at bobl ifanc a allai fod yn teimlo'n bryderus iawn ynglŷn â dychwelyd i'r ysgol a’u darbwyllo eu bod yn mynd i fod yn ddiogel, ac y dylent ddychwelyd i'r ysgol er mwyn eu lles?
Thank you, Jenny, for that. Overall, nationally, attendance rates run at approximately 80 per cent—just over 80 per cent—although there are some significant variations in that. Not surprisingly, those areas with a lower virus transmission are seeing higher levels of attendance. So, we see particularly high levels of attendance in Monmouthshire, in Pembrokeshire and in those areas, as I said, where we see lower levels of transmission. But even in areas of higher transmission, the vast, vast majority of children are continuing to attend school.
Undoubtedly, where there is a case, that can have an impact. Yesterday afternoon I had the privilege and pleasure of talking to the headteacher at Ninian Park Primary School here in Cardiff. They started off the term really, really positively with high attendance. Unfortunately, they had an individual case, which did see their attendance immediately after that case drop. But as of yesterday they were back to attendance in the region of 86 per cent, and that's because the teachers, the headteacher and the governing body had worked really hard to provide the assurance to parents that they needed that even with a case it was safe for their children to be back in school.
We will continue to work with local authorities to ensure that the Welsh Government is supporting them and the teaching profession in providing reassurance. In some cases, we know that parents are being incredibly cautious and trying their very best. It's cold season, so I know that our chief medical officers are working together across the United Kingdom to be able to provide more advice to parents to help them make decisions about when it is right for a child to be sent into school and when a child, perhaps, should be kept at home and get a test, if necessary. I know that teachers are working very hard to have those conversations with parents and to provide the necessary reassurance.
Diolch, Jenny. Yn gyffredinol, yn genedlaethol, mae cyfraddau presenoldeb oddeutu 80 y cant—ychydig dros 80 y cant—er bod rhai amrywiadau sylweddol o fewn hynny. Nid yw'n syndod fod lefelau presenoldeb uwch yn yr ardaloedd lle mae lefelau trosglwyddiad y feirws yn is. Felly, rydym yn gweld lefelau presenoldeb arbennig o uchel yn Sir Fynwy, yn Sir Benfro ac yn yr ardaloedd hynny, fel y dywedais, lle rydym yn gweld lefelau is o drosglwyddiad. Ond hyd yn oed mewn ardaloedd â throsglwyddiad uwch, mae’r rhan fwyaf o blant yn parhau i fynychu'r ysgol.
Heb os, lle ceir achos, gall hynny gael effaith. Brynhawn ddoe, cefais y fraint a'r pleser o siarad â'r pennaeth yn Ysgol Gynradd Parc Ninian yma yng Nghaerdydd. Fe ddechreuon nhw'r tymor yn gadarnhaol iawn gyda phresenoldeb uchel. Yn anffodus, cawsant un achos, a gostyngodd eu lefelau presenoldeb yn syth ar ôl yr achos hwnnw. Ond erbyn ddoe, roedd eu presenoldeb yn ôl i oddeutu 86 y cant, a hynny oherwydd bod yr athrawon, y pennaeth a'r corff llywodraethu wedi gweithio'n galed iawn i roi'r sicrwydd angenrheidiol i rieni ei bod yn ddiogel i'w plant fod yn ôl yn yr ysgol hyd yn oed gydag achos.
Byddwn yn parhau i weithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i sicrhau bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cefnogi hwy a'r proffesiwn addysgu i roi sicrwydd. Mewn rhai achosion, gwyddom fod rhieni'n bod yn hynod o ofalus ac yn ceisio eu gorau glas. Mae'n dymor annwyd, felly gwn fod ein prif swyddogion meddygol yn gweithio gyda'i gilydd ledled y Deyrnas Unedig i allu darparu mwy o gyngor i rieni i'w helpu i wneud penderfyniadau ynglŷn â pha bryd y mae'n iawn anfon plentyn i'r ysgol a pha bryd y dylid cadw plentyn gartref, efallai, a rhoi prawf iddynt os oes angen. Gwn fod athrawon yn gweithio'n galed iawn i gael y sgyrsiau hynny gyda rhieni ac i roi'r sicrwydd angenrheidiol.
6. Pa asesiad diweddar sydd wedi'i wneud o'r galw am addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru? OQ55607
6. What recent assessment has been made of the demand for Welsh-medium education in Mid and West Wales? OQ55607
Diolch yn fawr, Helen Mary. Local authority Welsh in education strategic plans outline how demand for Welsh-medium education is met. Our annual monitoring of plans suggests an increase in learners accessing Welsh-medium provision in the majority of Mid and West Wales. New WESP regulations set out a higher expectation of targets, and that is aligned with Cymraeg 2050.
Diolch yn fawr, Helen Mary. Mae cynlluniau strategol Cymraeg mewn addysg awdurdodau lleol yn amlinellu sut y caiff y galw am addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg ei ateb. Mae ein gwaith blynyddol yn monitro cynlluniau yn awgrymu bod cynnydd yn nifer y dysgwyr sy'n cael mynediad at ddarpariaeth cyfrwng Cymraeg yn y rhan fwyaf o Ganolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru. Mae rheoliadau newydd y cynllun strategol Cymraeg mewn addysg yn nodi disgwyliad uwch o ran targedau, ac mae hynny'n cyd-fynd â Cymraeg 2050.
I'm grateful to you, Minister, for the answer. I know that you will want to join me in congratulating Powys County Council, who have recently put out to tender again to build the 150-place Ysgol Gymraeg y Trallwng in Welshpool. As someone who grew up in Montgomeryshire and was educated there, albeit a very long time ago, I very much welcome this investment.
I'd like to ask you about the next steps for the new Ysgol Gymraeg Dewi Sant in Llanelli. I'm aware that there are still issues with regard to finding an appropriate site. In the meantime, my inbox is full of people who are concerned about the difficulties of providing distanced learning safely on the existing site. Can I invite you once again, Minister, to reassure the families and the staff at the school that, when a new site is identified, the funding will be available for a new build and that that won't be lost because of the very unfortunate, and we won't rehearse the circumstances, inability to proceed on the original site?
Diolch ichi am eich ateb, Weinidog. Gwn y byddwch am ymuno â mi i longyfarch Cyngor Sir Powys, sydd wedi gosod tendr eto yn ddiweddar i adeiladu Ysgol Gymraeg y Trallwng, sydd â lle i 150 o blant. Fel rhywun a fagwyd yn Sir Drefaldwyn ac a gafodd eu haddysg yno, er bod hynny amser maith yn ôl, rwy'n croesawu'r buddsoddiad hwn yn fawr.
Hoffwn eich holi ynglŷn â’r camau nesaf ar gyfer ysgol Gymraeg newydd Dewi Sant yn Llanelli. Rwy'n ymwybodol fod problemau o hyd gyda dod o hyd i safle priodol. Yn y cyfamser, mae fy mewnflwch yn llawn o bryderon gan bobl sy'n poeni am anawsterau darparu dysgu gan gadw pellter gymdeithasol yn ddiogel ar y safle presennol. A gaf fi eich gwahodd unwaith eto, Weinidog, i ddarbwyllo teuluoedd a staff yr ysgol, pan ddynodir safle newydd, y bydd cyllid ar gael ar gyfer adeilad newydd ac na fydd yn cael ei golli oherwydd yr anallu anffodus iawn, heb fynd i ailadrodd yr amgylchiadau, i fwrw ymlaen ar y safle gwreiddiol?
Like you and many other people, Helen Mary Jones, the re-provision of a new school for that community remains a priority for me. I look forward to receiving an application from Carmarthenshire council so that we can proceed with that project.
Fel chithau a llawer o bobl eraill, Helen Mary Jones, mae ailddarparu ysgol newydd ar gyfer y gymuned honno’n parhau i fod yn flaenoriaeth i mi. Edrychaf ymlaen at dderbyn cais gan gyngor Sir Gaerfyrddin fel y gallwn fwrw ymlaen â'r prosiect hwnnw.
Minister, a report by Estyn earlier this year showed that standards in literacy, numeracy and Welsh second language require improvement in around half of primary schools and all secondary schools inspected since 2017 in Pembrokeshire. Given that Pembrokeshire local government education services are causing concern and require follow-up activity, can you tell us what discussions the Welsh Government has had with the local authority and, indeed, regional consortia about raising standards and improving outcomes, particularly in relation to the teaching of Welsh as a second language?
Weinidog, dangosodd adroddiad gan Estyn yn gynharach eleni fod angen gwella safonau llythrennedd, rhifedd a Chymraeg ail iaith mewn oddeutu hanner yr ysgolion cynradd a'r holl ysgolion uwchradd a arolygwyd ers 2017 yn Sir Benfro. O gofio bod gwasanaethau addysg llywodraeth leol Sir Benfro yn peri pryder ac yn galw am weithredu dilynol, a allwch chi ddweud wrthym pa drafodaethau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'u cael gyda'r awdurdod lleol, a chonsortia rhanbarthol yn wir ynglŷn â chodi safonau a gwella canlyniadau, yn enwedig mewn perthynas ag addysgu Cymraeg fel ail iaith?
Thank you, Paul. Improvements in teaching Welsh as a second language is important right the way across Wales, not only in Pembrokeshire, and it'll be an important part of our reformed curriculum, our professional learning opportunities and our new initial teacher education provision. I myself met with representatives, with my officials and with representatives of Pembrokeshire, prior to the summer recess, to talk about what additional support the Welsh Government can give to that local education authority to help improve standards across the piece.
Diolch, Paul. Mae gwelliannau wrth addysgu Cymraeg fel ail iaith yn bwysig ledled Cymru, nid yn Sir Benfro yn unig, a bydd yn rhan bwysig o'n cwricwlwm diwygiedig, ein cyfleoedd dysgu proffesiynol a'n darpariaeth newydd addysg gychwynnol i athrawon. Cyfarfûm â chynrychiolwyr, gyda fy swyddogion a chynrychiolwyr o Sir Benfro cyn toriad yr haf i drafod pa gymorth ychwanegol y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei roi i'r awdurdod addysg lleol hwnnw i helpu i wella safonau yn gyffredinol.
7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am y dystiolaeth a ddefnyddiwyd i gynnwys Saesneg yn Adran 3(2) o'r Bil Cwricwlwm ac Asesu (Cymru)? OQ55588
7. Will the Minister make a statement on the evidence used to include English in Section 3(2) of the Curriculum and Assessment (Wales) Bill? OQ55588
The Bill is currently being scrutinised by the Senedd and therefore I do not intend to make a stand-alone statement on this matter. Though, as I have already indicated to Members, I am open to discussions and will listen to concerns.
Mae'r Senedd yn craffu ar y Bil ar hyn o bryd ac felly nid wyf yn bwriadu gwneud datganiad annibynnol ar y mater. Er, fel rwyf eisoes wedi’i nodi wrth yr Aelodau, rwy'n agored i drafodaethau ac fe wrandawaf ar bryderon.
I was going to say, 'Thanks, Minister', but I don't think I can now, really, because it's a very simple question about evidence. What I would have appreciated would have been some interaction on the question of evidence so at least we can have a grown-up discussion about this.
I think, having spoken to professionals in the field—this morning, actually—again, one question that comes to my mind is, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.' I think what we need to have is an understanding of the Welsh language, the special conditions that it takes to learn a language in immersion circumstances. And I think we really need to pay at least some attention, some real attention, to the so-called figure of a million speakers, which I think is just paying lip service at the moment, because I see no evidence.
I'm disappointed with the lack of engagement with the question. All I was asking for was some evidence, and you clearly have none. Thank you.
Roeddwn ar fin dweud, 'Diolch, Weinidog', ond ni chredaf y gallaf mwyach, a dweud y gwir, gan ei fod yn gwestiwn syml iawn am dystiolaeth. Yr hyn y byddwn wedi’i werthfawrogi fyddai rhywfaint o sôn am dystiolaeth, fel y gallwn gael trafodaeth aeddfed am hyn, o leiaf.
Ar ôl siarad â gweithwyr proffesiynol yn y maes—y bore yma, mewn gwirionedd—unwaith eto, un cwestiwn sy'n dod i'm meddwl yw, 'Os nad yw wedi torri, peidiwch â'i drwsio.' Credaf mai'r hyn sydd ei angen arnom yw dealltwriaeth o'r Gymraeg, yr amodau arbennig sydd eu hangen i ddysgu iaith mewn amgylchiadau trochi. A chredaf fod gwir angen inni roi rhywfaint o sylw, o leiaf, sylw go iawn, i’r ffigur honedig o filiwn o siaradwyr, nad yw’n ddim ond geiriau gwag ar hyn o bryd, gan na welaf unrhyw dystiolaeth.
Rwy'n siomedig ynglŷn â'r diffyg ymgysylltu â'r cwestiwn. Yr unig beth y gofynnais amdano oedd rhywfaint o dystiolaeth, ac mae'n amlwg nad oes gennych unrhyw dystiolaeth. Diolch.
I can assure the Member, Presiding Officer, that there are plenty of grown-up conversations being had about how we can deliver the targets of Cymraeg 2050. I am perfectly aware of the success of the immersion model in helping children acquire Welsh. My own children have benefited from it. There is nothing currently in the Bill that will prevent immersion from happening, but I am aware of concerns about how the Bill might inadvertently make immersion, or the increase in immersion, more difficult and therefore, as I said, I am willing to listen to those concerns and to engage positively with those people who positively engage with me.
Gallaf roi sicrwydd i’r Aelod, Lywydd, fod digon o sgyrsiau aeddfed yn digwydd ynglŷn â sut y gallwn gyflawni targedau Cymraeg 2050. Rwy’n gwbl ymwybodol o lwyddiant y model trochi yn helpu plant i ddysgu Cymraeg. Mae fy mhlant fy hun wedi elwa ohono. Nid oes unrhyw beth yn y Bil ar hyn o bryd a fydd yn atal trochi rhag digwydd, ond rwy’n ymwybodol o bryderon ynglŷn â sut y gallai’r Bil, yn anfwriadol, wneud trochi neu’r cynnydd mewn trochi yn anoddach ac felly, fel y dywedais, rwy’n barod i wrando ar y pryderon hynny ac i ymgysylltu'n gadarnhaol â'r bobl sy'n ymgysylltu'n gadarnhaol â mi.
Thank you for your answer to Mr McEvoy and also your previous answers to the last couple of questions, because it's all along the same theme. But I think the real barrier to being able to provide and to meet the Cymraeg 2050 target is actually the difficulty of getting Welsh-speaking teachers in play. We need more of them and we need them in all the different areas of Wales. There are some parts of Wales where it's incredibly difficult to get Welsh-speaking teachers. Conversely, we also have young people who are training as teachers who don't yet have Welsh and they're finding it sometimes difficult to find jobs that are non-Welsh-speaking. So, how are you going to address that balance in order to meet the Cymraeg 2050 target? And how can we encourage more people to become Welsh-speaking teachers so that we can not only do immersion learning but actually learning in the non-Welsh schools?
Diolch am eich ateb i Mr McEvoy ac am eich atebion blaenorol i'r un neu ddau o gwestiynau diwethaf, gan fod y cyfan yn ymwneud â’r un thema. Ond credaf mai'r gwir rwystr rhag gallu darparu a chyflawni targed Cymraeg 2050 yw'r anhawster o gael mwy o athrawon sy'n siarad Cymraeg. Mae arnom angen mwy ohonynt, ac mae arnom eu hangen yn yr holl wahanol ardaloedd yng Nghymru. Ceir rhai rhannau o Gymru lle mae'n eithriadol o anodd cael athrawon sy'n siarad Cymraeg. Ar y llaw arall, mae gennym bobl ifanc hefyd sy'n hyfforddi fel athrawon nad ydynt yn siarad Cymraeg eto, ac maent yn ei chael hi'n anodd dod o hyd i swyddi weithiau lle nad oes angen gallu yn y Gymraeg. Felly, sut rydych yn mynd i fynd i'r afael â'r cydbwysedd hwnnw er mwyn cyflawni targed Cymraeg 2050? A sut y gallwn annog mwy o bobl i ddod yn athrawon sy’n siarad Cymraeg fel y gallwn nid yn unig ddarparu addysg drochi, ond dysgu hefyd yn yr ysgolion nad ydynt yn ysgolion Cymraeg?
Thank you very much, Angela. The first thing that we need to do is increase the number of students who are studying Welsh at A-level, because we know that that qualification is often a precursor for people to go on to study Welsh at a higher level and then converting then into teaching Welsh, and we are promoting a Welsh A-level take-up scheme to promote that subject so that more students take it. Within initial teacher education, we are indeed providing opportunities for those students who currently do not have Welsh skills to be able to acquire those skills as part of their initial teacher education, so, even if they don't intend to go and teach in a Welsh-medium school, they can deliver high-quality Welsh lessons within the English-medium sector.
For those teachers who do, indeed, intend to teach through the medium of Welsh, we have provided funding—although, I have to admit that COVID has created some disruption to this programme—that will allow primary school qualified teachers to convert to be able to teach through the medium of Welsh in the secondary sector, because that is where we have particular shortages—in the secondary sector. And, indeed, those wishing to pursue a career teaching through the medium of Welsh continue to attract the highest level of ITE financial incentives if they choose to go to study for a teaching qualification in Welsh.
Last week, I met with Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol to talk about what more they can do, learning from the expertise that they already have in expanding Welsh-medium provision in the HE sector—what more they can do to work with our individual higher education institutions and the Education Workforce Council to ensure that we can increase the number of people who are acquiring those skills necessary to teach Welsh successfully in a Welsh-medium school or in an English-medium school.
I'm pleased to say that we have an uptick in the number of recruits onto ITE this year, but one swallow doesn't make a summer and we need to continue to press on this agenda.
Diolch yn fawr, Angela. Y peth cyntaf y mae'n rhaid inni ei wneud yw cynyddu nifer y myfyrwyr sy'n astudio'r Gymraeg ar lefel Safon Uwch, gan y gwyddom fod y cymhwyster hwnnw'n aml yn arwain at bobl yn mynd yn eu blaenau i astudio'r Gymraeg ar lefel uwch a mynd yn eu blaen wedyn i mewn i addysgu Cymraeg, ac rydym yn hyrwyddo cynllun i annog pobl i wneud Safon Uwch yn y Gymraeg er mwyn hyrwyddo'r pwnc hwnnw fel bod mwy o fyfyrwyr yn ei astudio. Ym maes addysg gychwynnol i athrawon, rydym yn darparu cyfleoedd i'r myfyrwyr nad oes ganddynt sgiliau Cymraeg ar hyn o bryd allu dysgu’r sgiliau hynny fel rhan o'u haddysg gychwynnol i athrawon, felly, hyd yn oed os nad ydynt yn bwriadu mynd i addysgu mewn ysgol Gymraeg, gallant ddarparu gwersi Cymraeg o safon yn y sector cyfrwng Saesneg.
I athrawon sy’n bwriadu addysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, rydym wedi darparu cyllid—er, mae'n rhaid i mi gyfaddef bod COVID wedi tarfu ar y rhaglen hon i raddau—a fydd yn caniatáu i athrawon ysgolion cynradd cymwysedig newid i allu addysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn y sector uwchradd, gan mai dyna lle mae gennym brinder penodol—yn y sector uwchradd. Ac yn wir, mae'r rheini sy'n dymuno dilyn gyrfa yn addysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn parhau i ddenu'r lefel uchaf o gymhellion ariannol addysg gychwynnol i athrawon os ydynt yn dewis astudio am gymhwyster addysgu yn y Gymraeg.
Yr wythnos diwethaf, cyfarfûm â’r Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol i drafod beth arall y gallant ei wneud, gan ddysgu o'r arbenigedd sydd ganddynt eisoes yn ehangu darpariaeth cyfrwng Cymraeg yn y sector addysg uwch—beth arall y gallant ei wneud i weithio gyda'n gwahanol sefydliadau addysg uwch a Chyngor y Gweithlu Addysg i sicrhau y gallwn gynyddu nifer y bobl sy'n dysgu’r sgiliau sy'n angenrheidiol i addysgu'r Gymraeg yn llwyddiannus mewn ysgol cyfrwng Gymraeg neu mewn ysgol cyfrwng Saesneg.
Rwy'n falch o ddweud bod gennym gynnydd yn nifer y recriwtiaid i addysg gychwynnol i athrawon eleni, ond un wennol ni wna wanwyn, ac mae angen inni barhau i roi pwyslais ar yr agenda hon.
Finally, question 8, Rhianon Passmore.
Yn olaf, cwestiwn 8, Rhianon Passmore.
8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am nifer yr achosion o blant yn Islwyn yn cael eu hanfon adref o'r ysgol i hunanynysu ar ôl cael canlyniad positif mewn prawf ar gyfer COVID-19? OQ55586
8. Will the Minister provide an update on the number of incidents in Islwyn of children who have been sent home from school to self-isolate following a positive test for COVID-19? OQ55586
I understand that, for the week 14 to 18 September, attendance at maintained schools in Caerphilly was running at 77 per cent.
Ar gyfer yr wythnos 14 i 18 Medi, deallaf fod lefel presenoldeb mewn ysgolion a gynhelir yng Nghaerffili yn 77 y cant.
Diolch, Minister. Thank you for that answer. The Welsh Labour First Minister, Mark Drakeford, has stated that keeping schools open was a top priority for the Welsh Government. For the parents and children in Islwyn, it is imperative for their social and mental well-being that they are able to continue their education in school with all the necessary precautions. From Risca Primary School in the primary sector to Blackwood Comprehensive School in the secondary sector, children have had to leave school to self-isolate for a period of time.
From Welsh Government data that I saw on Wednesday, eight out of 10 Welsh children were in school, compared to six out of 10 for the previous week. So, Minister, with attendance rising, how can the Welsh Government reinforce to our communities that, for our children to be educated, there needs to be, on public health grounds, reassurance? When will they be asked to stay away from school and what actions can the Welsh Government take to encourage the ever-increasing rise in school attendance by Islwyn's children?
Diolch, Weinidog. Diolch am eich ateb. Mae Prif Weinidog Llafur Cymru, Mark Drakeford, wedi nodi bod cadw ysgolion ar agor yn brif flaenoriaeth i Lywodraeth Cymru. I'r rhieni a'r plant yn Islwyn, mae'n hanfodol er eu lles cymdeithasol a meddyliol eu bod yn gallu parhau â'u haddysg yn yr ysgol gyda'r holl ragofalon angenrheidiol. O Ysgol Gynradd Rhisga yn y sector cynradd i Ysgol Gyfun y Coed Duon yn y sector uwchradd, mae plant wedi gorfod gadael yr ysgol i hunanynysu am gyfnod o amser.
O ddata Llywodraeth Cymru a welais ddydd Mercher, roedd wyth o bob 10 plentyn yng Nghymru yn yr ysgol, o gymharu â chwech o bob 10 yn yr wythnos flaenorol. Felly, Weinidog, gyda lefelau presenoldeb yn codi, sut y gall Llywodraeth Cymru bwysleisio'r neges i'n cymunedau, er mwyn i’n plant gael eu haddysgu, fod angen sicrwydd ar sail iechyd y cyhoedd? Pryd y bydd gofyn iddynt gadw draw o'r ysgol, a pha gamau y gall Llywodraeth Cymru eu cymryd i annog lefelau uwch o bresenoldeb yn yr ysgol ymysg plant Islwyn?
Can I thank the Member for her question? And can I assure her that this Welsh Liberal Democrat education Minister is taking all necessary steps and actions to ensure that children, whether they be in Caerphilly, or, indeed, anywhere else in Wales, have the disruption to their education minimised?
A gaf fi ddiolch i'r Aelod am ei chwestiwn? Ac a gaf fi roi sicrwydd iddi fy mod i fel Gweinidog addysg Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn cymryd yr holl gamau gweithredu angenrheidiol i sicrhau cyn lleied o darfu â phosibl ar addysg plant, yng Nghaerffili, neu'n wir, yn unrhyw le arall yng Nghymru?
Diolch i'r Gweinidog.
I thank the Minister.
Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Jayne Bryant.
The next item, therefore, is questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services, and the first question is from Jayne Bryant.
1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r rhai a oedd ar restr warchod gynt yn sgil y cyfyngiadau COVID-19 diweddaraf yng Nghymru? OQ55615
1. Will the Minister provide an update for those who were previously shielding in light of the latest COVID-19 restrictions for Wales? OQ55615
Thank you for the question. Whilst we have seen a rapid increase in cases in some areas, the specific advice to people in the former shielding group has not changed at this point in time. They do not need to take the strict shielding measures at this time. The Chief Medical Officer for Wales is liaising with CMO colleagues across the UK on advice to this group on minimising their risk of harm, and we will be writing to those on the previous shielding patients list in the coming days ahead.
Diolch am eich cwestiwn. Er ein bod wedi gweld cynnydd sydyn yn nifer yr achosion mewn rhai ardaloedd, nid yw'r cyngor penodol i bobl sydd wedi bod ar y rhestr warchod yn flaenorol wedi newid ar hyn o bryd. Nid oes angen iddynt roi camau gwarchod caeth ar waith yn awr. Mae Prif Swyddog Meddygol Cymru yn ymgysylltu â phrif swyddogion meddygol ledled y DU ynglŷn â chyngor i'r grŵp hwn ar leihau eu risg o niwed, a byddwn yn ysgrifennu at y rheini sydd wedi bod ar y rhestr warchod yn y gorffennol yn y dyddiau nesaf.
Thank you, Minister. I know that the measures put in place by Welsh Government to support the most vulnerable were greatly received. However, I'm now receiving correspondence from those who were shielding asking for further guidance. So, I'm pleased to hear that there will be some correspondence. Those contacting me are not asking to go back into shielding, but that, when announcements are made on any restrictions, communication is also made with those who were shielding. In particular, as the local restrictions are in place, people just want to have comfort that they're doing the safest and the right thing. While I appreciate that we're learning more about the virus all the time, what discussions are you having with others about the communication with those who are most at risk?
Diolch, Weinidog. Gwn fod y mesurau a roddwyd ar waith gan Lywodraeth Cymru i gefnogi'r rhai mwyaf agored i niwed wedi eu croesawu’n fawr. Fodd bynnag, rwyf bellach yn cael gohebiaeth gan y rheini sydd wedi bod ar y rhestr warchod yn y gorffennol, ac maent yn gofyn am arweiniad pellach. Felly, rwy'n falch o glywed y bydd rhywfaint o ohebiaeth. Nid yw'r rheini sy'n cysylltu â mi yn gofyn am gael ailgychwyn gwarchod, ond yn hytrach, pan wneir cyhoeddiadau ar unrhyw gyfyngiadau, maent am weld cyfathrebu'n digwydd hefyd gyda'r rheini sydd wedi bod ar y rhestr warchod yn y gorffennol. Yn benodol, gan fod y cyfyngiadau lleol ar waith, mae pobl yn dymuno cael cysur eu bod yn gwneud y peth mwyaf diogel a’r peth iawn. Er fy mod yn deall ein bod yn dysgu mwy am y feirws drwy'r amser, pa drafodaethau rydych chi'n eu cael gydag eraill ynglŷn â chyfathrebu â'r bobl fwyaf agored i niwed?
Thank you for the follow-up question. Of course, we had an opportunity to discuss some of this in the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee earlier this morning. So, as well as a direct contact that we expect from CMO correspondence with people in that former shielded category, we'll use the variety of our channels, and, to be fair, there's been such interest in the former shielded group that I expect we'll get significant pick-up in national and local media when we recommunicate where we are.
I think it is important to emphasise the lessons we've learned from the first six months. We do think we've prevented significant harm for people on that shielded groups list, but it comes at a cost. There was a cost in terms of people's mental health and well-being, because many of the people felt lonely, even with the support that was provided. So, shielding isn't an end in itself with no harm that attaches to it; it's always a balance. We also know that the previous approach of having a list of medical conditions doesn't take account of all the evidence of harm from COVID. We know that if you're less well off, you're more likely to suffer more significant harm—that point about health inequalities has been re-emphasised with a vengeance with the first phase of the pandemic. And, also, if you look like me, you're more likely to suffer harm, so the point about ethnic origin isn't taken account of in a medical conditions list. And, equally, if you look like me, and if I were to weigh three or four stone heavier, I'd be at a greater risk again as well. Not all of those things are picked up with a medical conditions list approach, so we're learning from what's happened. We're going to have to apply that, with the advice we get from the chief medical officers, in advising people how best to take care of themselves. But that will definitely involve direct contact with people on that former shielded patients list.
Diolch am eich cwestiwn dilynol. Wrth gwrs, cawsom gyfle i drafod rhywfaint o hyn yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon yn gynharach y bore yma. Felly, yn ogystal â’r cyswllt uniongyrchol rydym yn ei ddisgwyl o ohebiaeth y prif swyddog meddygol â phobl yn y categori hwnnw o bobl sydd wedi bod ar y rhestr warchod yn y gorffennol, byddwn yn defnyddio ein sianeli amrywiol, ac a bod yn deg, mae cymaint o ddiddordeb wedi bod yn y grŵp o bobl sydd wedi bod ar y rhestr warchod yn y gorffennol fel fy mod yn disgwyl y cawn gryn dipyn o sylw yn y cyfryngau cenedlaethol a lleol pan fyddwn yn ailddatgan ble rydym arni.
Credaf ei bod yn bwysig pwysleisio'r gwersi rydym wedi'u dysgu o'r chwe mis cyntaf. Credwn ein bod wedi atal niwed sylweddol i bobl ar y rhestr honno o grwpiau i’w gwarchod, ond nid oedd hynny heb gost. Bu cost o ran iechyd meddwl a lles pobl, gan fod llawer o'r bobl yn teimlo'n unig, hyd yn oed gyda'r gefnogaeth a roddwyd. Felly, nid yw gwarchod yn ddiben ynddo'i hun heb unrhyw niwed ynghlwm wrtho; mae bob amser yn gydbwysedd. Gwyddom hefyd nad yw'r dull blaenorol o gael rhestr o gyflyrau meddygol yn ystyried yr holl dystiolaeth o niwed yn sgil COVID. Os ydych yn llai cyfoethog, gwyddom eich bod yn fwy tebygol o ddioddef niwed mwy sylweddol—cafodd y pwynt ynglŷn ag anghydraddoldebau iechyd ei ailbwysleisio’n ddiamwys yng nghyfnod cyntaf y pandemig. A hefyd, os ydych yn edrych yn debyg i fi, rydych yn fwy tebygol o ddioddef niwed, felly nid yw'r pwynt am darddiad ethnig yn cael ei ystyried mewn rhestr o gyflyrau meddygol. Ac yn yr un modd, os ydych chi'n edrych yn debyg i fi, a phe bawn yn pwyso tair neu bedair stôn yn drymach, byddwn innau hefyd mewn mwy o berygl eto. Nid yw'r holl bethau hynny’n cael eu nodi mewn rhestr o gyflyrau meddygol, felly rydym yn dysgu o'r hyn sydd wedi digwydd. Bydd yn rhaid inni gymhwyso hynny, gyda'r cyngor a gawn gan y prif swyddogion meddygol, wrth gynghori pobl ar y ffordd orau i ofalu amdanynt eu hunain. Ond bydd hynny'n bendant yn golygu cyswllt uniongyrchol â phobl sydd wedi bod ar y rhestr warchod yn y gorffennol.
Good afternoon, Minister. Local coronavirus help and support groups, like Feed Newport in Pill, and the ones I set up in Wyesham and Usk, did a fantastic job during national lockdown at protecting vulnerable people, making sure they didn't feel isolated, and delivered food and prescriptions to those who were previously shielding and self-isolating. These vulnerable people are now at risk now the virus is on the rise again. Shielding for extremely vulnerable people was introduced at the start of the pandemic in March and only recently lifted. However, your Government's advice, as you've just stated, is that these people do not need to shield at present. Can you explain a bit more your reasons for that decision, Minister? And in what circumstances would you feel the need to reconsider this advice for those shielding, as it's confusing for people, as outlined by Jayne Bryant? There does need to be more communication and more detailed communication, and I welcome the fact that you're going to send letters out, but also for COVID groups to prepare to help those people shielding again. And, Minister, will you just take this opportunity now to join me in thanking all the fantastic work done by voluntary groups throughout this pandemic in helping those most vulnerable in our society?
Prynhawn da, Weinidog. Gwnaeth grwpiau cymorth a chefnogaeth coronafeirws lleol, fel Feed Newport ym Mhillgwenlli, a’r rhai a sefydlais yn Wyesham a Brynbuga, waith gwych yn ystod y cyfyngiadau symud cenedlaethol wrth amddiffyn pobl agored i niwed, gan sicrhau nad oeddent yn teimlo’n ynysig, a dosbarthu bwyd a phresgripsiynau i'r rheini a oedd ar y rhestr warchod yn y gorffennol ac yn hunanynysu. Mae'r bobl agored i niwed hyn bellach mewn perygl gan fod y feirws ar gynnydd eto. Cyflwynwyd gwarchod ar gyfer pobl hynod agored i niwed ar ddechrau'r pandemig ym mis Mawrth, a dim ond yn ddiweddar y codwyd y mesurau hyn. Fodd bynnag, cyngor eich Llywodraeth, fel rydych newydd ddatgan, yw nad oes angen i'r bobl hyn warchod ar hyn o bryd. A allwch chi egluro eich rhesymau dros y penderfyniad hwnnw ymhellach, Weinidog? Ac ym mha amgylchiadau y byddech yn teimlo'r angen i ailystyried y cyngor hwn i'r rheini sy'n gwarchod, gan ei fod yn peri dryswch i bobl, fel y nodwyd gan Jayne Bryant? Mae angen mwy o gyfathrebu a chyfathrebu manylach, ac rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith eich bod yn mynd i anfon llythyrau allan, ond hefyd er mwyn i grwpiau COVID baratoi i gynorthwyo’r bobl sy'n gwarchod unwaith eto. A Weinidog, a wnewch chi achub ar y cyfle hwn yn awr i ymuno â mi i ddiolch am yr holl waith gwych a wnaed gan grwpiau gwirfoddol drwy gydol y pandemig yn cynorthwyo’r bobl fwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas?
I'm very happy to reiterate the thanks that myself and other Ministers, and other leaders of local authorities in every part of Wales, have given to all those people who've volunteered to help other people out, that's both in combating loneliness and isolation and helping with services, from the specific schemes we've had to delivering pharmacy medication to, if you like, the wider befriending and some form of social contact, albeit not the physical contact that we are used to and value. I know that this is also an issue where families and friends are taking care of each other outside organised activity as well. I have continued to do my mother's shopping, in the main, and to deliver that each week. I can't go into her home, because I present a bigger risk to her than my sister does, who has less contact, and all of those individual calculations about managing risk are taking place in families and communities around the country.
We need to take account, as I said in answer to Jayne Bryant, of the learning from the first six months of the pandemic, of our understanding of the benefits and disbenefits of a medical conditions list, and we will then set that out for people on the former shielded list, but for the country at large, because, whilst we're seeing coronavirus cases rise, we've been very clear that people on the former shielded list should be particularly vigilant in following the advice on restricting the number of contacts they have, because, actually, managing your own contacts, restricting them to as few as you need to have, obeying the rules, and, indeed, having good hand hygiene and following the whole-nation requirements, are especially important for that group of people with a medical vulnerability. But, as I say, it's a more rounded approach we need to take, and that comes from learning not just from the figures, but also from our direct contact with people who were formerly shielded, and I'm more than happy to keep not just the Chamber but the country updated about the changing advice and decisions that we make.
Rwy'n fwy na pharod i ailadrodd y diolch rwyf fi a Gweinidogion eraill, ac arweinwyr awdurdodau lleol ym mhob rhan o Gymru, wedi'i roi i'r holl bobl sydd wedi gwirfoddoli i helpu pobl eraill, wrth frwydro yn erbyn unigrwydd ac ynysigrwydd a helpu gyda gwasanaethau, o'r cynlluniau penodol rydym wedi'u cael i ddarparu meddyginiaeth fferyllol i gyfeillio mwy cyffredinol, os mynnwch, a rhyw fath o gyswllt cymdeithasol, er nad y cyswllt corfforol rydym wedi arfer ag ef ac yn ei werthfawrogi. Gwn fod hwn hefyd yn fater lle mae teuluoedd a ffrindiau yn gofalu am ei gilydd y tu allan i weithgarwch wedi'i drefnu. Rwyf wedi parhau i siopa i fy mam, at ei gilydd, a mynd ag ef iddi bob wythnos. Ni chaf fynd i mewn i'w chartref, am fy mod yn creu mwy o risg iddi nag y mae fy chwaer, sy’n dod i gysylltiad â llai o bobl, ac mae'r holl gyfrifiadau unigol hynny ynglŷn â rheoli risgiau'n digwydd mewn teuluoedd a chymunedau ledled y wlad.
Fel y dywedais wrth ateb Jayne Bryant, mae angen inni ystyried yr hyn a ddysgwyd yn ystod chwe mis cyntaf y pandemig, o'n dealltwriaeth o fanteision ac anfanteision rhestr o gyflyrau meddygol, a byddwn yn nodi hynny ar gyfer pobl sydd wedi bod ar y rhestr warchod yn y gorffennol, ond ar gyfer y wlad yn gyffredinol, oherwydd, er ein bod yn gweld cynnydd yn nifer yr achosion o’r coronafeirws, rydym wedi dweud yn glir iawn y dylai pobl sydd wedi bod ar y rhestr warchod yn y gorffennol fod yn arbennig o wyliadwrus a dilyn y cyngor ar gyfyngu ar nifer y cysylltiadau sydd ganddynt, oherwydd mewn gwirionedd, mae rheoli eich cysylltiadau eich hunan, eu cyfyngu i gyn lleied ag sydd angen, cadw at y rheolau, sicrhau eich bod yn dilyn mesurau hylendid dwylo da a dilyn y gofynion ar gyfer y wlad gyfan yn arbennig o bwysig i'r grŵp hwnnw o bobl sy’n agored i niwed yn feddygol. Ond fel y dywedaf, mae angen inni fabwysiadu ymagwedd fwy cyflawn, a daw hynny o ddysgu nid yn unig o'r ffigurau, ond hefyd o'n cyswllt uniongyrchol â phobl sydd wedi bod ar y rhestr warchod yn y gorffennol, ac rwy'n fwy na pharod i roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf nid yn unig i’r Siambr ond i’r wlad am y cyngor sy'n newid a'r penderfyniadau a wnawn.
Minister, thank you for your answers to the questions on this already. I think you'll agree with me that one of the major things that has been of assistance to people when they have been shielded is the priority delivery slots that supermarkets have offered to them. My understanding, from speaking to constituents, is that lots of those supermarkets are now bringing those priority slots to an end, at a time when we see coronavirus on the increase in so many of our communities. This is something that concerns not just my constituents, but me as well, so could I ask what discussions have you had with other Ministers around these protected delivery slots and just urge you to take some action on this?
Weinidog, diolch am eich atebion i'r cwestiynau ar hyn eisoes. Credaf y byddwch yn cytuno â mi mai un o'r prif bethau sydd wedi bod o gymorth i bobl wrth iddynt gael eu gwarchod yw'r slotiau dosbarthu siopa blaenoriaethol y mae archfarchnadoedd wedi'u cynnig iddynt. Yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, o siarad ag etholwyr, mae llawer o archfarchnadoedd bellach yn rhoi’r gorau i ddarparu slotiau blaenoriaethol, ar adeg pan fo’r coronafeirws ar gynnydd mewn cymaint o’n cymunedau. Mae hyn yn rhywbeth sy'n peri pryder nid yn unig i fy etholwyr, ond i minnau hefyd, felly a gaf fi ofyn pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda Gweinidogion eraill ynglŷn â'r slotiau dosbarthu hyn ar gyfer bobl sy’n gwarchod, a’ch annog i weithredu ar hyn?
That's an important point, I think, from Vikki Howells about the practical support that people have been provided with. The food delivery scheme actually didn't reach huge numbers of people, because they didn't need it. Everyone who needed it had a delivery from the free food scheme, but, once supermarkets had significantly expanded their own online delivery slots and prioritised people on that shielded list, the need for a free food delivery scheme was less than we had originally anticipated. So, that significant expansion in online slots needs to continue, and I'll certainly take this up and have a conversation with my colleague Lesley Griffiths, who has regular contact with supermarket retailers on a range of measures, and it's very helpful you've raised it with me today, because it's certainly something to take forward, as I've not previously had direct intelligence brought to me that there's been a reduction in slots. We absolutely want to see that continue, as we face up to what will undoubtedly be a very challenging winter and autumn.
Credaf fod hwnnw'n bwynt pwysig gan Vikki Howells am y gefnogaeth ymarferol y mae pobl wedi'i chael. Mewn gwirionedd, ni chyrhaeddodd y cynllun dosbarthu bwyd niferoedd enfawr o bobl, am nad oedd ei angen arnynt. Cafodd pawb oedd eu hangen nwyddau wedi’u dosbarthu iddynt drwy’r cynllun bwyd am ddim, ond ar ôl i archfarchnadoedd ehangu eu slotiau dosbarthu ar-lein eu hunain yn sylweddol, a blaenoriaethu pobl ar y rhestr warchod, roedd yr angen am gynllun dosbarthu bwyd am ddim yn llai na'r hyn a ragwelwyd yn wreiddiol. Felly, mae angen i'r cynnydd sylweddol a welwyd yn nifer y slotiau ar-lein barhau, a byddaf yn sicr yn mynd i’r afael â hyn ac yn cael sgwrs gyda fy nghyd-Aelod Lesley Griffiths, sy’n cysylltu’n rheolaidd â manwerthwyr archfarchnadoedd ar ystod o fesurau, ac mae'n ddefnyddiol iawn eich bod wedi dwyn hyn i fy sylw heddiw, oherwydd yn sicr, mae'n rhywbeth i fwrw ymlaen ag ef, gan nad wyf wedi derbyn gwybodaeth uniongyrchol o'r blaen fod gostyngiad yn nifer y slotiau. Rydym yn sicr am weld hynny'n parhau, wrth inni wynebu'r hyn a fydd, yn ddi-os, yn aeaf a hydref heriol iawn.
2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y rhaglen frechu rhag y ffliw y gaeaf hwn? OQ55595
2. Will the Minister provide an update on this year's winter flu vaccination programme? OQ55595
Thank you. This winter, with the continued presence, indeed the resurgence, of COVID-19, we want to ensure that more people than ever receive the flu vaccine. That is why we have extended the eligibility criteria. We're working with key partners to maximise the uptake of the flu vaccine, and additional vaccine supply will be available to support anticipated increased demand.
Diolch. Y gaeaf hwn, gyda phresenoldeb parhaus, neu atgyfodiad COVID-19 yn wir, rydym am sicrhau bod mwy o bobl nag erioed yn derbyn brechlyn ffliw. Dyna pam ein bod wedi ymestyn y meini prawf cymhwysedd. Rydym yn gweithio gyda phartneriaid allweddol i sicrhau'r nifer fwyaf sy'n bosibl o frechlynnau ffliw, a bydd cyflenwad ychwanegol o'r brechlyn ar gael i gefnogi'r galw cynyddol a ragwelir.
I thank you for that answer. In his evidence session with the Senedd's health committee last week, Dr Quentin Sandifer from Public Health Wales said that
'in ordinary times, we would aspire to a 75 per cent flu vaccination uptake in eligible groups'
and that would 'maximise the protective effect'. So, clearly, we want to hit at least that this year. So, what, then, is being done to ensure that we achieve that maximum uptake? Has everyone eligible for the free flu vaccination been contacted by the NHS and are the stocks and the logistical arrangements in place to deliver a record number of doses on time? Given the spike that we've seen in coronavirus testing and absences at the start of the new school term and, given the increased danger of having both coronavirus and flu at the same time, where are we in terms of take-up and delivery of the nasal spray flu vaccination in primary schools?
Diolch am eich ateb. Yn ei sesiwn dystiolaeth gyda phwyllgor iechyd y Senedd yr wythnos diwethaf, dywedodd Dr Quentin Sandifer o Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru
mewn cyfnod cyffredin byddem yn anelu at ddarparu brechlyn ffliw i 75 y cant o'r bobl sydd mewn grwpiau cymwys
ac y byddai hynny'n ‘ymestyn yr effaith amddiffynnol i'r eithaf’. Felly, yn amlwg, hoffem gyflawni o leiaf hynny eleni. Felly, beth sy'n cael ei wneud i sicrhau ein bod yn cyflawni'r gyfradd fwyaf sy'n bosibl? A yw'r GIG wedi cysylltu â phawb sy'n gymwys i gael y brechlyn ffliw am ddim, ac a yw'r stociau a'r trefniadau logistaidd ar waith i ddarparu'r nifer uchaf erioed o ddosau mewn pryd? O ystyried y cynnydd a welsom yn nifer y profion coronafeirws ac absenoldebau ar ddechrau'r tymor ysgol newydd, ac o ystyried y perygl cynyddol o gael y coronafeirws a'r ffliw ar yr un pryd, ble rydym arni o ran y niferoedd sy'n manteisio ar y brechlyn ffliw drwy chwistrelliad trwynol a'i ddarparu mewn ysgolion cynradd?
Thank you for those questions. And it is a really important campaign, this year more than ever. In an average flu season, 8,000 to 10,000 people across the UK lose their lives as a result of flu, so this is a significant cause of mortality in normal times. Given the additional risk of corconavirus, it's even more important than ever that we have people taking up the offer of a free NHS flu jab, and indeed for other members of the public to protect themselves, if they can do so.
What we have done is we have, together with other UK nations, procured more of the flu vaccine than ever before—about 50 per cent more. That is to maximise take-up in the at-risk groups, and those people are regularly notified through their healthcare providers and will receive the same notification. We already see, though, positively, evidence of an increase in demand for the NHS flu jab, so that's good news. That does mean, though, that there is a need to make sure that people have ready access, whether in general practice or community pharmacies—our two main delivery systems for the flu jab for adults and adolescents—and it's important that continues.
On the nasal spray for younger children, both pre-school and in early school, we've actually, again, had increased supplies available to us, and that is rolling out within each health board as we speak. So over the coming weeks—. We've had a letter in my own household for our primary school age child to get consent for him to have the nasal flu spray as well during the season.
It's important that we get as much done, as far as possible, before we get into December. So we want as many people vaccinated as possible by November, if at all possible, because flu tends to circulate in larger numbers, in larger volume, from December onwards. So I am confident that the enhanced profile that this campaign has this year will lead to a continuing strong demand for uptake, and if we can have that high level of vaccination within our most at-risk categories, we'll then move to roll out another campaign for over-65s and, then, the over-50s.
But it's been a good start thus far and I do really think that, this year, we have seen a much heightened profile of the flu vaccine campaign. It normally receives a period of interest for a brief period of weeks and then largely rolls into the distance, but I think, with the additional threats of coronavirus, we will see more and more people wanting to take up the offer.
Diolch am y cwestiynau hynny. Ac mae'n ymgyrch wirioneddol bwysig, eleni yn fwy nag erioed. Mewn tymor ffliw cyfartalog, mae 8,000 i 10,000 o bobl ledled y DU yn colli eu bywydau o ganlyniad i ffliw, felly mae'n achos marwolaeth sylweddol ar adegau arferol. O ystyried risg ychwanegol y coronafeirws, mae'n bwysicach nag erioed i bobl fanteisio ar y cynnig i gael pigiad ffliw am ddim gan y GIG, ac yn wir i aelodau eraill o'r cyhoedd ddiogelu eu hunain, os gallant wneud hynny.
Gyda gwledydd eraill y DU, rydym wedi caffael mwy o'r brechlyn ffliw nag erioed o'r blaen—tua 50 y cant yn fwy. Bydd hynny'n sicrhau bod y nifer fwyaf sy'n bosibl o bobl yn manteisio ar y cynnig yn y grwpiau risg, a hysbysir y bobl hynny'n rheolaidd drwy eu darparwyr gofal iechyd a byddant yn cael yr un hysbysiad. Er hynny, rydym eisoes yn gweld tystiolaeth gadarnhaol o gynnydd yn y galw am bigiad ffliw y GIG, felly mae hynny'n newyddion da. Ond mae hynny'n golygu bod angen sicrhau bod pobl yn gallu cael y pigiad boed mewn practis cyffredinol neu fferyllfeydd cymunedol—ein dwy brif system gyflenwi ar gyfer y pigiad rhag y ffliw i oedolion a phobl ifanc—ac mae'n bwysig bod hynny'n parhau.
Ar y chwistrell drwynol i blant iau, yn y cyfnod cyn-ysgol ac mewn addysg gynnar, unwaith eto mae mwy o gyflenwadau ar gael i ni, ac mae hynny'n cael ei gyflwyno ym mhob bwrdd iechyd wrth inni siarad. Felly, dros yr wythnosau nesaf—. Cawsom lythyr ar fy aelwyd fy hun yn gofyn am ein cydsyniad i'n plentyn oedran ysgol gynradd gael y chwistrell drwynol ar gyfer y ffliw yn ystod y tymor.
Mae'n bwysig ein bod yn gwneud cymaint ag y gallwn cyn dechrau mis Rhagfyr. Felly rydym am i gynifer o bobl gael eu brechu ag sy'n bosibl erbyn mis Tachwedd, os oes modd o gwbl, oherwydd mae'r ffliw'n tueddu i ledaenu'n fwy eang, i fwy o niferoedd, o fis Rhagfyr ymlaen. Felly rwy'n hyderus y bydd y proffil uwch sydd i'r ymgyrch hon eleni yn arwain at alw cyson o gryf am y brechlyn, ac os gallwn gael y lefel uchel honno o frechu ymhlith ein categorïau sy'n wynebu fwyaf o risg, byddwn yn cyflwyno ymgyrch arall ar gyfer pobl dros 65 oed a rhai dros 50 oed wedyn.
Ond mae wedi bod yn ddechrau da hyd yma ac rwy'n credu o ddifrif ein bod wedi gweld proffil llawer uwch i'r ymgyrch brechu rhag y ffliw. Fel arfer gwelir cyfnod o ddiddordeb am gyfnod byr o wythnosau ac yna mae'n tueddu i leihau, ond gyda bygythiadau ychwanegol coronafeirws, rwy'n credu y gwelwn fwy a mwy o bobl yn awyddus i fanteisio ar y cynnig.
The increase in demand, Minister, is very, very welcome, as is the extension of the eligibility criteria, but, unfortunately, I've got people in my own constituency who have been told they cannot schedule a flu jab appointment with their GPs until a month hence, which is clearly completely unacceptable, particularly for those in those vulnerable categories that you've already referred to. And, of course, it's not just the flu vaccine that some people need to access; there's also the pneumococcal vaccine to protect people against pneumonia, and I'm aware that there are shortages of that vaccine across Wales and, indeed, other parts of the UK at present. What action are you taking to make sure that there is sufficient capacity within the system to be able to meet the request for vaccination from all those who need it?
Weinidog, mae'r cynnydd yn y galw i'w groesawu'n fawr iawn, fel y mae ymestyn y meini prawf cymhwysedd, ond yn anffodus, mae gennyf bobl yn fy etholaeth sydd wedi cael clywed na allant drefnu apwyntiad i gael pigiad rhag y ffliw yn eu meddygfeydd am fis arall, sy'n amlwg yn gwbl annerbyniol, yn enwedig i'r rheini yn y categorïau agored i niwed rydych eisoes wedi cyfeirio atynt. Ac wrth gwrs, nid dim ond y brechlyn ffliw y mae pobl am ei gael; ceir brechlyn niwmococol hefyd i ddiogelu pobl rhag niwmonia, ac rwy'n ymwybodol fod yna brinder o'r brechlyn hwnnw ledled Cymru a rhannau eraill o'r DU ar hyn o bryd. Pa gamau rydych chi'n eu cymryd i sicrhau bod digon o gapasiti yn y system i allu diwallu'r galw am frechiad i bawb sydd ei angen?
There's a mix in terms of the provision. So the UK Government normally procure flu vaccine supplies for across the UK, and that's where we've agreed to have an increased UK procurement exercise, and a range of GP practices also procure their own as well. We are aware of some challenges in supply and those are short-term matters, is our understanding. So, for example, one of the major manufacturers has decided to stagger the release of the flu vaccine this year, which is why some community pharmacies and some practices may experience a delay and a staging in the way they can deliver the vaccine.
In terms of what is and isn't acceptable, I think it's the case, as I said, that because flu circulation tends to take place later in the winter, through December, the important point is to use September, October and November to get as many people vaccinated as possible to provide that level of protection ahead of the peak of the flu season. We'll continue to work with both general practice and community pharmacy. And I would say that if there are real challenges in the supply, as opposed to a staggering of the supply, because the two are different, as ever we'll continue to work on this issue in a constructive way across the UK. It's one of the areas where all four Governments, regardless of political leadership, do have a very grown-up and, I think, effective way of working with each other.
Mae'r ddarpariaeth yn gymysg. Felly mae Llywodraeth y DU fel arfer yn caffael cyflenwadau o'r brechlyn ffliw ar gyfer y DU gyfan, a dyna lle rydym wedi cytuno i gael ymarfer caffael mwy eang yn y DU, ac mae amryw o bractisau meddygon teulu hefyd yn caffael eu brechlyn eu hunain. Rydym yn ymwybodol o heriau yn y cyflenwad a phroblemau yn y tymor byr yw'r rheini yn ôl ein dealltwriaeth ni. Felly, er enghraifft, mae un o'r prif weithgynhyrchwyr wedi penderfynu rhyddhau'r brechlyn ffliw fesul cam eleni, a dyna pam y bydd rhai fferyllfeydd cymunedol a rhai practisau'n profi oedi ac yn mynd ati i ddarparu'r brechlyn fesul cam.
O ran yr hyn sy'n dderbyniol neu'n annerbyniol, rwy'n credu ei bod yn wir, fel y dywedais, oherwydd bod lledaeniad y ffliw yn tueddu i ddigwydd yn ddiweddarach yn y gaeaf, drwy fis Rhagfyr, y pwynt pwysig yw defnyddio mis Medi, mis Hydref a mis Tachwedd i gael cynifer o bobl â phosibl wedi'u brechu er mwyn darparu lefel o ddiogelwch cyn i'r tymor ffliw gyrraedd ei anterth. Byddwn yn parhau i weithio gyda meddygon teulu a fferylliaeth gymunedol. A byddwn yn dweud, os oes heriau gwirioneddol yn y cyflenwad, yn hytrach na bod y cyflenwad yn cael ei ryddhau fesul cam, oherwydd mae'r ddau'n wahanol, fel bob amser byddwn yn parhau i weithio ar hynny mewn ffordd adeiladol ledled y DU. Mae'n un o'r meysydd lle mae gan bob un o'r pedair Llywodraeth, waeth pwy yw'r arweinwyr gwleidyddol, ffordd aeddfed ac effeithiol iawn o weithio gyda'i gilydd yn fy marn i.
I feel that Joyce Watson's question is hugely important, particularly in the light of the COVID crisis, where there are figures to show that the take-up of flu vaccines is much reduced amongst the most vulnerable. Perhaps this is because people are fearful of attending surgeries—a fact that may well be the result of doctors being reluctant to engage with all but the seriously ill. The low take-up is particularly worrying given the fact that in the last 14 weeks, the flu killed 10 times as many people as COVID. Is this part of the statistics that would prompt some scientists to say that the lockdown measures could kill 75,000 people? Minister, given the devastating effects lockdowns have on society as a whole, can you assure the people of Wales that the lockdowns will only occur once all available scientific advice is sought and that they will end at the earliest possible date that data no longer supports the lockdown?
Teimlaf fod cwestiwn Joyce Watson yn eithriadol o bwysig, yn enwedig yng ngoleuni'r argyfwng COVID, lle mae ffigurau'n dangos bod y nifer sy'n manteisio ar frechlynnau ffliw yn llawer llai ymhlith y rhai mwyaf agored i niwed. Efallai mai'r rheswm am hyn yw bod pobl yn ofni mynychu meddygfeydd—rhywbeth a allai ddeillio o amharodrwydd meddygon i ymgysylltu â phawb heblaw pobl sy'n ddifrifol wael. Mae'r nifer isel sy'n manteisio ar y brechlyn yn peri pryder arbennig o gofio bod y ffliw wedi lladd 10 gwaith cymaint o bobl â COVID yn ystod y 14 wythnos diwethaf. A yw hyn yn rhan o'r ystadegau a fyddai'n annog rhai gwyddonwyr i ddweud y gallai'r cyfyngiadau ladd 75,000 o bobl? Weinidog, o gofio'r effeithiau dinistriol y mae cyfyngiadau symud yn eu cael ar gymdeithas yn gyffredinol, a allwch chi sicrhau pobl Cymru mai dim ond ar ôl cael yr holl gyngor gwyddonol sydd ar gael y bydd y cyfyngiadau'n digwydd ac y byddant yn dod i ben cyn gynted ag y ceir data nad yw'n cefnogi'r cyfyngiadau?
I'm afraid, I think, that there was a large amount of misunderstanding in the first part of that question. Joyce Watson's question really is important because of the additional risks that we know come, not just in a normal flu season, where, as I've indicated, 8,000 to 10,000 people across the UK lose their lives as a result of the flu and its effects each year, but actually we're in a position where we are already seeing increased take-up. It isn't that there is a reluctance from people to have the flu vaccine this year—far from it. People are keen, not just in Wales, but my understanding, in terms of the sharing of information between all four nations, is that in all four of the nations of the UK people are keen to take up the flu vaccine and are looking to have it early, which is good news for all of us.
When it comes to the restrictions that have been put in place, both the current local measures we have and indeed the fuller lockdown measures that were introduced in March, they're only being introduced on the basis of the information we have available to us: on the medical and scientific information on the spread of the virus, on its impact and its likely impact if measures aren't taken to halt its spread. We will only introduce these measures where there is an evidence base to support them and it will reduce the harm from coronavirus, and we will lift them when the evidence is there that they are no longer a proportionate intervention in the way that people live their lives.
We're acting now to avoid the sort of harm we saw in the first wave of coronavirus. I do not want to wait until our hospitals are full and I am having to report on significant increased death figures every day before we are prepared to act. Acting now is about avoiding even more draconian impositions on the way people live their lives, avoiding even more significant harm to families and communities across the country.
Ofnaf fod llawer iawn o gamddealltwriaeth yn rhan gyntaf y cwestiwn hwnnw. Mae cwestiwn Joyce Watson yn bwysig iawn oherwydd y risgiau ychwanegol y gwyddom eu bod yn dod, nid yn unig mewn tymor ffliw arferol, lle mae 8,000 i 10,000 o bobl ledled y DU, fel y dywedais, yn colli eu bywydau o ganlyniad i'r ffliw a'i effeithiau bob blwyddyn, ond mewn gwirionedd rydym mewn sefyllfa lle rydym eisoes yn gweld mwy o bobl yn manteisio ar y brechlyn. Nid yw pobl yn amharod i gael y brechlyn ffliw eleni—i'r gwrthwyneb. Mae pobl yn awyddus, nid yn unig yng Nghymru, ond yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf o rannu gwybodaeth rhwng y pedair gwlad, mae pobl ym mhob un o bedair gwlad y DU yn awyddus i fanteisio ar y brechlyn ffliw ac am ei gael yn gynnar, sy'n newyddion da i bob un ohonom.
O ran y cyfyngiadau a roddwyd ar waith, y mesurau lleol presennol sydd gennym ac yn wir y cyfyngiadau symud llawnach a gyflwynwyd ym mis Mawrth, cânt eu cyflwyno'n unig ar sail y wybodaeth sydd ar gael i ni: ar sail y wybodaeth feddygol a gwyddonol am ledaeniad y feirws, ar ei effaith a'i effaith debygol os na chaiff mesurau eu cymryd i atal ei ledaeniad. Ni fyddwn ond yn cyflwyno'r mesurau hyn lle ceir sylfaen dystiolaeth i'w cefnogi a bydd yn lleihau niwed coronafeirws, a byddwn yn eu codi pan fydd y dystiolaeth yno nad ydynt bellach yn ymyrraeth gymesur yn y ffordd y mae pobl yn byw eu bywydau.
Rydym yn gweithredu nawr i osgoi'r math o niwed a welsom yn y don gyntaf o'r coronafeirws. Nid wyf am aros nes bydd ein hysbytai'n llawn a minnau'n gorfod adrodd ar ffigurau marwolaethau sy'n sylweddol uwch bob dydd cyn inni fod yn barod i weithredu. Mae gweithredu yn awr yn osgoi gosod cyfyngiadau hyd yn oed yn fwy llym ar y ffordd y mae pobl yn byw eu bywydau, ac yn osgoi niwed mwy sylweddol eto i deuluoedd a chymunedau ledled y wlad.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Questions now from party spokespeople. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Diolch, Llywydd, a gwnaf innau bigo i fyny ar y cwestiynau pwysig yna ynglŷn â brechlyn y ffliw. Gaf i dynnu eich sylw chi at astudiaeth ddiweddar yn yr Eidal sydd wedi nodi perthynas rhwng cyfraddau brechu'r ffliw a chyfraddau symptomau a goroesi coronafeirws? Mewn rhanbarthau lle'r oedd mwy o bobl dros 65 oed wedi manteisio ar y brechlyn ffliw y llynedd, mi oedd yna lai o farwolaethau neu bobl yn gorfod mynd i'r ysbyty oherwydd coronafeirws eleni. Gallwn ni ddim ond dyfalu ar y pwynt yma beth ydy'r rheswm am hynny, ond gan ein bod ni yn eiddgar i gyfyngu ar ledaeniad y ffliw beth bynnag, mi oedd yn fy nharo i y gallai gwneud yn siŵr bod y brechlyn ffliw ar gael i bawb sydd eisiau ei gael o, nid dim ond grwpiau targed, yn fuddsoddiad gwerthfawr iawn, nid yn unig wrth fynd i'r afael â phwysau arferol y gaeaf ar yr NHS, ond hefyd i leihau effaith coronafeirws. Felly, yn ogystal â'r ymrwymiad i gael mwy o bobl i gael y brechlyn, a fyddech yn fodlon ymrwymo i rywbeth pellach, sef ei ehangu fo i bawb gan y gallai hynny fod yn fuddsoddiad da?
Thank you, Llywydd, and I'll pick up on the important questions about flu vaccination. I draw your attention to a recent study in Italy that has noted a relationship between flu vaccination rates and the severity of coronavirus symptoms and survival rates. In regions where more people over 65 had taken up the flu vaccine last year, there were fewer deaths or people having to go to hospital because of coronavirus this year. We can only guess, at this point, at the reason for that, but because we're very eager to restrict the spread of the flu anyway, it strikes me that ensuring that the flu vaccine is available for everyone who wants it, and not just the target groups, would be a very valuable investment, not only in tackling the usual winter pressures on the NHS, but also in reducing the impact of the coronavirus. So, as well as the commitment to encourage more people to get the vaccine, would you be willing to commit to extending it to everyone because that could be a good investment?
Well, first, to plan and to deliver an effective seasonal flu campaign, and this will be our largest ever seasonal flu campaign—we expect to deliver more flu vaccines than ever before to the people of Wales this winter—we need to make choices in advance of the season to be able to do that, and we have chosen to target and to increase significantly the amount of flu vaccine that we procure for the people of Wales and that we then deliver.
The question about whether we should have whole-population coverage in terms of the NHS campaign is rather out of the scope of where we are at present, but it's something that we can consider in the future. It's not currently supported by the joint committee that advises the Welsh Government and all UK Governments on the delivery of vaccination programmes. But, as ever, as the evidence base changes, then we're of course prepared to shift and to change our position, because the objective here is how we protect as many lives as possible, and avoid as much harm as possible, whether that's from COVID, the flu or indeed a range of other infectious diseases and conditions that we know are a regular challenge for how we live our lives today.
Wel, yn gyntaf, er mwyn cynllunio a chyflwyno ymgyrch brechlyn ffliw tymhorol effeithiol, a hon fydd ein hymgyrch ffliw tymhorol fwyaf erioed—rydym yn disgwyl y byddwn yn darparu mwy o frechlynnau ffliw nag erioed o'r blaen i bobl Cymru y gaeaf hwn—mae angen inni wneud dewisiadau cyn y tymor er mwyn gallu gwneud hynny, ac rydym wedi dewis targedu a chynyddu'n sylweddol faint o frechlynnau ffliw rydym yn eu caffael i bobl Cymru, brechlynnau y byddwn yn eu darparu yn sgil hynny wedyn.
Mae'r cwestiwn a ddylem ymestyn ymgyrch y GIG i gynnwys y boblogaeth gyfan ychydig y tu hwnt i gwmpas yr hyn y gellir ei wneud yn ein sefyllfa ar hyn o bryd, ond mae'n rhywbeth y gallwn ei ystyried yn y dyfodol. Nid yw'n cael ei gefnogi ar hyn o bryd gan y cydbwyllgor sy'n cynghori Llywodraeth Cymru a holl Lywodraethau'r DU ar ddarparu rhaglenni brechu. Ond fel arfer, wrth i'r sylfaen dystiolaeth newid, rydym yn barod i addasu a newid ein safbwynt wrth gwrs, gan mai'r amcan yma yw sut rydym yn diogelu cynifer o fywydau â phosibl, ac osgoi cymaint o niwed â phosibl, boed yn sgil COVID, y ffliw neu'n wir, ystod o glefydau a chyflyrau heintus eraill y gwyddom eu bod yn her reolaidd i'r ffordd rydym yn byw ein bywydau heddiw.
Diolch. Mi symudaf i ymlaen. Wrth i fwy o gyfyngiadau gael eu rhoi ar bobl ledled Cymru, mae hi'n bwysig iawn dangos ein bod ni wedi dysgu gwersi o'r cyfnod clo llawn gwreiddiol. A dwi wedi gweld un adroddiad sy'n dweud bod cymaint â 50 y cant o bobl jest ddim eisiau mynd i weld gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol ynglŷn â chyflwr meddygol yn ystod y cyfnod clo yna, achos yn syml iawn doedden nhw ddim eisiau poeni yr NHS. Rŵan, er bod y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon y bore yma wedi clywed bod niferoedd ymweliadau at feddygon ac i adrannau brys, ac yn y blaen, wedi codi erbyn hyn—mae hynny'n beth da—mae Tenovus Cancer Care yn amcangyfrif y gallai fod yna 2,000 o bobl yn byw efo canser heb ddiagnosis yn dal ddim wedi mynd at y meddyg teulu eto o ganlyniad i'r pandemig. Pa sicrwydd allwch chi ei roi i'r bobl hynny—pobl sydd, wrth gwrs, yn teimlo'n fwy nerfus rŵan wrth i'r cyfyngiadau newydd ddod i mewn—fod yr NHS yn dal ar agor i bawb, ac annog y cleifion hynny sydd ar goll yn y system i fynd i chwilio am gyngor meddygol?
Thank you. I'll move on. As more restrictions are imposed on people across Wales, it's very important to show that we have learned lessons from the full original lockdown. And I've seen one report that says that as many as 50 per cent of people just didn't want to see professional health workers in terms of medical conditions during that lockdown because, very simply, they didn't want to bother the NHS. But even though the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee this morning did hear that the number of visits to doctors and A&E departments, and so on, have risen—that's a good thing—Tenovus Cancer Care estimates that there may be 2,000 people who are living with cancer without diagnosis, and still haven't visited a GP because of the pandemic. So what assurance can you give to those people—people who do feel more nervous now, as the new restrictions come into force—that the NHS is still open to everyone, and to encourage those patients who are lost in the system to look for medical advice?
Well I think we've been very clear and consistent about the concern we had for the harm that is caused as a result of non-COVID conditions. That's both the harm that could have been caused if our health and social care system was overwhelmed—and it wasn't; it was under significant pressure in different parts of Wales, but it wasn't overwhelmed—and also the harm caused by non-COVID conditions because people are not undertaking treatment, either because they're opting out of treatment because of the concerns they have, and we definitely saw that, or indeed because it isn't possible because of the system being overwhelmed.
You'll have heard me say on a number of occasions over the past months the concerns we had about the fall in emergency admissions. That's partly because some people didn't really need and don't need—and we discuss this every year—to go into an emergency department, there are other routes for their care, but the much bigger concern was that there are people who really do need emergency care who weren't coming into our health service. And that's not just cancer; stroke, we know that there was a significant fall in people attending the national health service with stroke conditions. Now, I don't believe and there's no evidence to support the view that that meant that, suddenly, there was a significant reduction in the incidence of stroke across Wales. It's about how people were behaving, and their concerns.
We have definitely learnt from the first six months. And so we now have streaming in terms of COVID-light or COVID-green zones, and COVID-red, COVID-positive or COVID-possible zones. That's important to give people confidence, and the way that we manage patients who are coming into our health service through either one of those routes, primarily for hospitals, but also we've had to change the way that primary care has worked. So the ability to consult and to see people virtually, to speak to people on the phone, there's been a significant increase, and that should give people more confidence. But the message from me, and from our whole national healthcare system, is we're open for business, we've learnt from the first six months, and if you have a serious healthcare condition, you should continue to come forward, you should continue to seek advice, support and treatment, whether via primary care or indeed hospital care, because the NHS has certainly not closed up and we look forward to people returning in larger numbers. The case for reform in our healthcare system will be remade about the need to change the way that we work, but that does mean people need to present at the earliest opportunity to allow us to intervene in the least invasive way possible.
Wel, rwy'n credu ein bod wedi bod yn glir ac yn gyson iawn ynglŷn â'r pryder a oedd gennym am y niwed a achosir o ganlyniad i gyflyrau nad ydynt yn rhai COVID. Mae hynny'n cynnwys y niwed y gellid bod wedi'i achosi pe bai ein system iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn cael ei llethu—ac ni chafodd ei llethu; roedd o dan bwysau sylweddol mewn gwahanol rannau o Gymru, ond ni chafodd ei llethu—a hefyd y niwed a achosir gan gyflyrau nad ydynt yn rhai COVID am nad yw pobl yn cael triniaeth, naill ai am eu bod yn optio allan o driniaeth oherwydd y pryderon sydd ganddynt, a gwelsom hynny yn sicr, neu'n wir am nad yw'n bosibl oherwydd bod y system yn cael ei llethu.
Fe fyddwch wedi fy nghlywed yn dweud droeon dros y misoedd diwethaf am y pryderon a oedd gennym ynglŷn â gostyngiad yn nifer y derbyniadau brys. Mae hynny'n rhannol oherwydd nad oedd ac nad oes gwir angen i rai pobl—ac rydym yn trafod hyn bob blwyddyn—fynd i adran achosion brys, ceir llwybrau eraill ar gyfer eu gofal, ond y pryder llawer mwy oedd bod pobl sydd angen gofal brys yn peidio â throi at y gwasanaeth iechyd. Ac nid canser yn unig yw hynny; strôc, gwyddom fod gostyngiad sylweddol yn nifer y bobl sy'n troi at y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol oherwydd cyflyrau strôc. Nawr, nid wyf yn credu bod hynny'n golygu'n sydyn fod gostyngiad sylweddol yn nifer yr achosion o strôc ar draws Cymru, ac nid oes tystiolaeth i gefnogi hynny. Mae'n ymwneud â sut roedd pobl yn ymddwyn, a'u pryderon.
Rydym yn bendant wedi dysgu o'r chwe mis cyntaf. Ac felly mae gennym ffrydio yn awr i barthau lle na cheir achosion o COVID neu barthau COVID gwyrdd, a pharthau COVID coch lle cafwyd achosion positif neu achosion posibl o COVID. Mae hynny'n bwysig er mwyn rhoi hyder i bobl, a'r ffordd rydym yn rheoli cleifion sy'n dod i mewn i'n gwasanaeth iechyd drwy un o'r llwybrau hynny, yn bennaf ar gyfer ysbytai, ond rydym wedi gorfod newid y ffordd y mae gofal sylfaenol wedi gweithio hefyd. Felly, bu cynnydd sylweddol yn y gallu i gynnal ymgyngoriadau rhithwir â phobl, i siarad â phobl dros y ffôn, a dylai hynny roi mwy o hyder i bobl. Ond y neges gennyf fi, a'n system gofal iechyd gwladol yn ei chyfanrwydd, yw ein bod ar agor, rydym wedi dysgu o'r chwe mis cyntaf, ac os oes gennych gyflwr gofal iechyd difrifol, dylech ddal i ddod i ofyn am gyngor, cymorth a thriniaeth, boed drwy ofal sylfaenol neu ofal ysbyty yn wir, oherwydd yn sicr nid yw'r GIG wedi cau ac edrychwn ymlaen at weld pobl yn dychwelyd mewn niferoedd mwy. Caiff yr achos dros ddiwygio ein system gofal iechyd ei ail-wneud ynghylch yr angen i newid y ffordd y gweithiwn, ond mae hynny'n golygu bod angen i bobl ofyn am gymorth cyn gynted â phosibl i ganiatáu inni allu rhoi'r driniaeth leiaf ymyrrol sy'n bosibl.
But there are people though who are already in the system and who've faced a journey that's much, much longer than it would have been. And you'll have heard me make repeated calls about the need to structure services in a way that will allow treatments to resume, diagnosis services to resume, and so on, at a much faster rate than they are currently. Again this week I've heard concerns from surgeons—one of the royal colleges—that this isn't happening still to the extent that it's needed.
It might be understandable that the publication of referral-to-treatment data was suspended at the beginning of the pandemic, but here we are now on the last day of September and the last available data was published in March, and those were figures for January. RTT data provides a crucial insight into how long people are in the system, how long they're waiting, across all health boards, all specialities. And with elective services across Wales, we know, decimated by the outbreak, without the data we have no way of knowing the scale of the backlog problems we're facing within NHS Wales. And every statistic is a patient, waiting in pain, quite often. So, now that we're over six months into the pandemic, will you urgently make this data publicly available?
Ond mae yna bobl sydd eisoes yn y system ac sydd wedi wynebu taith lawer hwy nag y byddai wedi bod. A byddwch wedi fy nghlywed yn gwneud galwadau mynych am yr angen i strwythuro gwasanaethau mewn ffordd a fydd yn caniatáu i driniaethau ailddechrau, i wasanaethau diagnosis ailddechrau, ac yn y blaen, yn llawer cyflymach nag ar hyn o bryd. Unwaith eto yr wythnos hon rwyf wedi clywed pryderon gan lawfeddygon—un o'r colegau brenhinol—nad yw hyn yn digwydd i'r graddau sydd ei angen o hyd.
Efallai ei bod yn ddealladwy fod camau i gyhoeddi data rhwng atgyfeirio a thriniaeth wedi'u gohirio ar ddechrau'r pandemig, ond dyma ni bellach ar ddiwrnod olaf mis Medi a chyhoeddwyd y data diwethaf a oedd ar gael ym mis Mawrth, a ffigurau ar gyfer mis Ionawr oedd y rheini. Mae data rhwng atgyfeirio a thriniaeth yn rhoi cipolwg hollbwysig ar ba mor hir y mae pobl yn y system, am ba hyd y maent yn aros, ar draws pob bwrdd iechyd, ym mhob arbenigedd. Ac fel y gwyddom, gyda gwasanaethau dewisol ledled Cymru wedi'u cyfyngu'n aruthrol gan y pandemig, heb y data nid oes gennym unrhyw ffordd o wybod maint yr ôl-groniad rydym yn ei wynebu yn GIG Cymru. Ac mae pob ystadegyn yn glaf yn aros mewn poen yn aml iawn. Felly, gan ein bod bellach dros chwe mis i mewn i'r pandemig, a wnewch chi sicrhau bod y data ar gael i'r cyhoedd ar fyrder?
In health committee this morning, I and the chief executive of NHS Wales, Dr Goodall, provided a range of information about the scale of the backlog that has built up and the range of that backlog. I'll certainly look to see how and when we release information to provide more detail on that. I think returning to publishing RTT figures and percentages would be incredibly unhelpful, because it would give the impression that the NHS is somehow failing, when actually it is about how we're managing to cope with the demand that is coming through and a very different way of working. We're not in a position where we're going to be able to eat into that backlog through the winter. We're still in the mode of surviving the pandemic and maintaining as much activity as possible, but I've been very upfront about the fact that that means that we won't undertake the same level of activity. It would be wholly unrealistic, and set an impossibly unfair task for the NHS, to demand that it both prepares for and manages the pandemic, which is not finished, and eats into the waiting times that have built up. That's not just the picture here in Wales; it's right across the UK, and I'm sure you'll have noticed comments from the Royal College of Surgeons in response to the NHS Confederation report about England and the challenges they face, where they've been sharply critical of an attempt to eat into the backlog when actually their staff haven't had a rest following the first phase of the pandemic.
So, I still believe it will take pretty much a full Welsh Parliament term to get back on top of the activity that has not taken place, about the fact that people wearing additional PPE cannot undertake the same amount of activity as we would have expected in February this year. So, I'll happily go away and look again at how we provide information to inform people about the scale of where we are, not just people who want to read the transcript from this morning's evidence session with the committee, but to see how we do that in a way that is regular and reliable for members of the public and, indeed, of course, elected representatives.
Yn y pwyllgor iechyd y bore yma, darparais i a phrif weithredwr GIG Cymru, Dr Goodall, ystod o wybodaeth am faint yr ôl-groniad sydd wedi datblygu ac amrywiaeth yr ôl-groniad hwnnw. Byddaf yn sicr yn edrych i weld sut a phryd y byddwn yn rhyddhau gwybodaeth i roi mwy o fanylion am hynny. Rwy'n credu y byddai dychwelyd at gyhoeddi ffigurau a chanrannau rhwng atgyfeirio a thriniaeth yn hynod o ddi-fudd am y byddai'n rhoi'r argraff bod y GIG rywsut yn methu, pan fo'n ymwneud mewn gwirionedd â sut rydym yn llwyddo i ymdopi â'r galw a ffordd wahanol iawn o weithio. Nid ydym mewn sefyllfa lle byddwn yn gallu lleihau'r ôl-groniad hwnnw drwy'r gaeaf. Rydym yn dal i fod yn ceisio goroesi'r pandemig a chynnal cymaint o weithgarwch â phosibl, ond rwyf wedi bod yn agored iawn fod hynny'n golygu na fyddwn yn ymgymryd â'r un lefel o weithgarwch. Byddai'n gwbl afrealistig, ac yn gosod tasg amhosibl o annheg i'r GIG, i fynnu eu bod yn paratoi ar gyfer y pandemig ac yn ei reoli, er nad yw wedi dod i ben, ac yn lleihau'r amseroedd aros sydd wedi datblygu. Nid y darlun yma yng Nghymru yn unig yw hwnnw; mae'n digwydd ar draws y DU, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddwch wedi nodi sylwadau gan Goleg Brenhinol y Llawfeddygon mewn ymateb i adroddiad Cydffederasiwn y GIG am Loegr a'r heriau y maent yn eu hwynebu, lle maent wedi bod yn feirniadol iawn o ymgais i leihau'r ôl-groniad pan nad yw eu staff wedi cael seibiant yn dilyn cyfnod cyntaf y pandemig.
Felly, rwy'n dal i gredu y bydd yn cymryd tymor Senedd Cymru llawn i ymdrin â'r gweithgarwch nad yw wedi digwydd, a'r ffaith na all pobl sy'n gwisgo cyfarpar diogelu personol ychwanegol gyflawni'r un faint o weithgarwch ag y byddem wedi'i ddisgwyl ym mis Chwefror eleni. Felly, rwy'n hapus i edrych eto ar sut rydym yn darparu gwybodaeth i roi gwybod i bobl ynglŷn â maint y sefyllfa rydym ynddi, nid dim ond y bobl sydd am ddarllen y trawsgrifiad o'r sesiwn dystiolaeth y bore yma gyda'r pwyllgor, ond i aelodau'r cyhoedd, a chynrychiolwyr etholedig wrth gwrs, allu gweld sut rydym yn gwneud hynny mewn ffordd sy'n rheolaidd ac yn ddibynadwy.
Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Andrew R.T. Davies.
The Conservative spokesperson, Andrew R.T. Davies.
Thank you, Presiding Officer. Minister, in the news today we've seen the outbreak at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital, and tragically eight people have been reported as losing their lives. We send our condolences to the families of the ones who have lost their lives. There are 83 cases of COVID at that hospital. Earlier in the year, we had an outbreak at Wrexham Maelor Hospital. Both hospitals have major accident and emergency departments for their particular areas, of which we have 13 across Wales. Can you highlight today if there are any similarities between the two outbreaks and, if there are similarities, how will you ensure that this doesn't occur in other A&E receiving hospitals? Because as we go into the winter months, obviously we know what winter pressures do, but with the disruption an outbreak like this causes, as well as the tragedy of loss of life and the general upset that it causes, this is something that we want to avoid at the other hospitals across Wales.
Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, yn y newyddion heddiw rydym wedi gweld y clwstwr o achosion yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, ac yn drasig dywedwyd bod wyth o bobl wedi colli eu bywydau. Anfonwn ein cydymdeimlad at deuluoedd y rhai sydd wedi colli eu bywydau. Mae 83 o achosion o COVID yn yr ysbyty hwnnw. Yn gynharach yn y flwyddyn, cawsom nifer o achosion yn Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam. Mae gan y ddau ysbyty adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys mawr ar gyfer eu hardaloedd, ac mae gennym 13 o adrannau o'r fath ledled Cymru. A allwch ddweud heddiw p'un a oes unrhyw debygrwydd rhwng y ddau glwstwr o achosion ac os oes tebygrwydd, sut y gallwch sicrhau na fydd hyn yn digwydd mewn ysbytai eraill sydd ag adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys? Oherwydd wrth inni nesu at fisoedd y gaeaf, mae'n amlwg ein bod yn gwybod beth y mae pwysau'r gaeaf yn ei wneud, ond gyda'r aflonyddwch y mae clwstwr o achosion fel hyn yn ei achosi, yn ogystal â thrasiedi colli bywyd a'r gofid cyffredinol y mae'n ei achosi, mae hyn yn rhywbeth rydym am ei osgoi yn yr ysbytai eraill ledled Cymru.
I think there are differences as well as similarities. So, we picked up the issues in Wrexham Maelor, and we definitely learnt from what happened in Wrexham Maelor, about the need for clear executive leadership and for buy-in across the staff group for the measures that would need to be taken, about prompt isolation and reinforcing enhanced infection prevention and control measures. So, our whole system learnt a lot from what happened within Wrexham Maelor, and those lessons are being applied within the Royal Glamorgan. That is why we are, for example, testing staff who work on that site, it's why a number of wards have been closed, it's why there's an early diversion of activity away from that hospital, to allow the hospital to manage and to recover, and it's why there's been a reinforcement of the need to test patients on admission, whether emergency or elective.
It's also the case that some of the transmission in the Royal Glamorgan, as with Wrexham Maelor, came from transmission within the hospital, whether between patients or staff. What is different, though, about the Royal Glamorgan is that we have a higher reservoir of coronavirus within the surrounding community. So, a number of people have come into the hospital and needed treatment because of coronavirus, and we also know that some transmission has taken place within the hospital itself. There are risks for every hospital and closed environment if coronavirus takes hold within the staff or the group of people who are either being cared for or living within that environment. It's why we continue with our testing programme in care homes. I expect that we'll not just have more information from the health board, but there'll be a continued focus on whether the infection rate peaks, as it did in the Maelor, and recovers, and how long that will last for. So, I'm expecting to have regular updates from the health board themselves about the picture within the Royal Glamorgan each day. And I know that the chief executive of the health board is expecting to make further statements to the press about the measures that have been taken and the action, including, as I said, the diversion of patients away from that site.
Rwy'n credu bod yna wahaniaethau yn ogystal â thebygrwydd. Nodasom y problemau yn Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam, ac yn sicr, fe wnaethom ddysgu o'r hyn a ddigwyddodd yn Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam, am yr angen am arweinyddiaeth weithredol glir a chefnogaeth y grŵp staff yn ei gyfanrwydd i'r mesurau y byddai angen eu cymryd, ynglŷn ag ynysu prydlon ac atgyfnerthu mesurau estynedig ar gyfer atal a rheoli heintiau. Felly, dysgodd ein system gyfan lawer o'r hyn a ddigwyddodd yn Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam, ac mae'r gwersi hynny'n cael eu cymhwyso yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. Dyna pam ein bod, er enghraifft, yn cynnal profion ar y staff sy'n gweithio ar y safle hwnnw, dyna pam y caewyd nifer o wardiau, dyna pam y cafodd gweithgarwch ei ddargyfeirio'n gynnar o'r ysbyty, i ganiatáu i'r ysbyty reoli ac ymadfer, a dyna pam yr atgyfnerthwyd yr angen i gynnal profion ar gleifion wrth eu derbyn, boed yn gleifion triniaeth frys neu driniaeth ddewisol.
Mae hefyd yn wir fod rhywfaint o'r trosglwyddiad yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, fel gydag Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam, yn deillio o drosglwyddiad o fewn yr ysbyty, rhwng cleifion neu staff. Yr hyn sy'n wahanol, serch hynny, am Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yw bod gennym gronfa fwy o'r coronafeirws yn y gymuned gyfagos. Felly, mae nifer o bobl wedi dod i mewn i'r ysbyty ac angen triniaeth oherwydd coronafeirws, a gwyddom hefyd fod rhywfaint o drosglwyddiad wedi digwydd yn yr ysbyty ei hun. Mae risgiau ym mhob ysbyty ac amgylchedd caeedig os yw'r coronafeirws yn lledaenu ymhlith y staff neu'r grŵp o bobl sydd naill ai'n derbyn gofal neu'n byw yn yr amgylchedd hwnnw. Dyna pam ein bod yn parhau â'n rhaglen brofi mewn cartrefi gofal. Rwy'n disgwyl y cawn fwy o wybodaeth gan y bwrdd iechyd, ac y bydd ffocws parhaus hefyd ar weld a fydd y gyfradd heintio'n cyrraedd penllanw, fel y gwnaeth yn Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam, ac yn gwella, a pha mor hir y bydd hynny'n para. Felly, rwy'n disgwyl cael y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf yn rheolaidd gan y bwrdd iechyd ei hun am y darlun yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg bob dydd. A gwn fod prif weithredwr y bwrdd iechyd yn disgwyl gwneud datganiadau pellach i'r wasg am y mesurau sydd wedi'u cymryd a'r camau gweithredu, gan gynnwys dargyfeirio cleifion o'r safle hwnnw fel y dywedais.
Thank you for that answer, Minister. As you highlighted, the reservoir in the local community is obviously one issue that does need to be understood, and the transmission into the hospital as well as in the hospital itself. Just this afternoon, we've had information from Public Health Wales that they've become aware of 2,000 test results that they were completely unaware of, and, obviously, when you're trying to understand local data, being able to understand the test results is a critical component of being able to track the virus in communities. Today, I welcome the news, obviously, that Rhondda, for example, and Merthyr have got their own local maps now that show the level of infection rates in those communities—something that I've been calling on you to bring forward for the rest of Wales. So, clearly you have that information. There are two parts to this, if I may seek assurances from you: can you enlighten us more as to these 2,000 results that Public Health Wales have been made aware of, as to why the system didn't alert Public Health Wales to the outcome of those test results, given their importance; and secondly, will you commit to making that data available that Merthyr are highlighting today and Rhondda are highlighting today about infection rates in local communities so that people can understand the prevalence of the virus within their communities?
Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Fel y dywedoch, mae cronfa'r haint yn y gymuned leol yn amlwg yn un mater y mae angen ei ddeall, a'i drosglwyddiad i'r ysbyty yn ogystal ag o fewn yr ysbyty ei hun. Y prynhawn yma, rydym wedi cael gwybodaeth gan Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru eu bod wedi dod yn ymwybodol o 2,000 o ganlyniadau profion nad oeddent yn ymwybodol ohonynt o gwbl, ac yn amlwg, pan fyddwch yn ceisio deall data lleol, mae gallu deall canlyniadau profion yn elfen hanfodol o allu olrhain y feirws mewn cymunedau. Heddiw, rwy'n croesawu'r newyddion wrth gwrs fod gan Rhondda, er enghraifft, a Merthyr Tudful eu mapiau lleol eu hunain yn awr sy'n dangos lefel y cyfraddau heintio yn y cymunedau hynny—rhywbeth y bûm yn galw arnoch i'w gyflwyno ar gyfer gweddill Cymru. Felly, mae'n amlwg fod y wybodaeth honno gennych. Mae dwy ran i hyn, os caf ofyn am sicrwydd gennych: a allwch ein goleuo ynglŷn â'r 2,000 o ganlyniadau y mae Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru wedi cael gwybod amdanynt, pam na wnaeth y system dynnu sylw Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru at y canlyniadau hynny, o ystyried eu pwysigrwydd; ac yn ail, a wnewch chi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod y data y mae Merthyr Tudful a Rhondda yn tynnu sylw ato heddiw ar gael ynglŷn â chyfraddau heintio mewn cymunedau lleol fel y gall pobl ddeall pa mor gyffredin yw'r feirws yn eu cymunedau?
On the second point, I have already indicated that I am looking to see how we can regularise the provision of that information so that it's not just ad hoc. And we're looking at what Public Health Wales already publish to give people the understanding of what is taking place on a local level. And it's not just the Rhondda area; it's actually the whole of Rhondda Cynon Taf where I think they're producing maps showing the rates that exist, together with Merthyr. I think it would be useful to provide that information on a regular and predictable basis. So, I am already looking at how we do that and to see what is already provided by Public Health Wales.
On your first point, unfortunately this has been a data glitch with lighthouse labs. The data haven't come in to NHS Wales Informatics Service to provide to Public Health Wales, and so Public Health Wales have alerted us to the fact they're awaiting those some 2,000 lighthouse lab test results. It's a matter that has been taken up through our normal management and information arrangements with colleagues in the UK testing programme. As soon as those figures are available, we'll need to make sure we understand where they are and how far back those test results go as well, because we have had some improvement in the turnaround delays in lighthouse lab test results, and so I'll want to understand how that tracks back and changes our understanding of the shifting picture of positive coronavirus cases across Wales. So, it's certainly not ideal, but, as I say, I expect us to resolve that with the people responsible for the lighthouse lab testing programme.
Ar yr ail bwynt, rwyf eisoes wedi dweud fy mod yn edrych i weld sut y gallwn sicrhau bod y wybodaeth honno'n cael ei darparu'n rheolaidd fel nad ar sail ad hoc yn unig y mae'n digwydd. Ac rydym yn edrych ar yr hyn y mae Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru eisoes yn ei gyhoeddi i adael i bobl wybod beth sy'n digwydd ar lefel leol. Ac nid ardal Rhondda'n unig; rwy'n credu bod Rhondda Cynon Taf i gyd yn cynhyrchu mapiau sy'n dangos y cyfraddau sy'n bodoli, yn ogystal â Merthyr Tudful. Credaf y byddai'n ddefnyddiol darparu'r wybodaeth honno ar sail reolaidd yn ôl y disgwyl. Felly, rwyf eisoes yn edrych ar sut y gwnawn hynny ac i weld beth y mae Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru eisoes yn ei ddarparu.
Ar eich pwynt cyntaf, yn anffodus gwelwyd nam yn y data o'r labordai goleudy. Nid yw'r data wedi dod i mewn i Wasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru i'w ddarparu i Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru, ac felly mae Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru wedi ein hysbysu eu bod yn aros am yr oddeutu 2,000 o ganlyniadau profion o'r labordai goleudy. Mae'n fater a godwyd drwy ein trefniadau rheoli a gwybodaeth arferol gyda chydweithwyr yn rhaglen brofi'r DU. Cyn gynted ag y bydd y ffigurau hynny ar gael, bydd angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn deall ble maent a pha mor bell yn ôl y mae'r canlyniadau hynny'n mynd hefyd, gan ein bod wedi gweld peth gwelliant o ran yr oedi cyn darparu canlyniadau'r labordai goleudy, ac felly byddaf am ddeall sut y mae hynny'n mynd yn ôl ac yn newid ein dealltwriaeth o'r darlun sy'n newid o achosion positif o'r coronafeirws ledled Cymru. Felly, yn sicr nid yw'n ddelfrydol, ond fel y dywedais, rwy'n disgwyl y gwnawn ni ddatrys hynny gyda'r bobl sy'n gyfrifol am raglen brofi'r labordai goleudy.
Earlier in the response to my questions, you highlighted, and I highlighted to you, the disruption that's been caused by the outbreak at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital to services, and today in the news we're hearing that a million breast cancer screening appointments have been lost because of the COVID outbreak across the whole of the United Kingdom. What's really important is when GPs, obviously, have concerns and refer patients into the health system, people get the diagnostic tests that they require and then the treatment within the NHS. In Neath Port Talbot, there is already a rapid diagnostic centre that is available for such a service, but obviously we need such centres across the rest of Wales. Can you commit today to the rapid expansion of the rapid diagnostic centres, so that GPs do have that option and so that when patients are suspected of having further inquiries required when it comes to cancer procedures, they can get into the system, have the diagnosis and either get the all-clear or progress within the health service, in whatever part of Wales they live? Because we all know that, when it comes to cancer, time is of the essence, and if we do have disruption in the service, as we do because of COVID, then we need to use the best practice that's available to us, and I would suggest that rapid diagnostic centres are one of those avenues that need to be opened up.
Yn gynharach yn yr ymateb i fy nghwestiynau, fe wnaethoch dynnu sylw, ac fe wnes innau dynnu eich sylw chi at yr aflonyddwch y mae'r clwstwr o achosion yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yn ei achosi i wasanaethau, a heddiw yn y newyddion clywn fod miliwn o apwyntiadau sgrinio canser y fron wedi'u colli oherwydd y pandemig COVID ledled y Deyrnas Unedig. Yn amlwg, pan fydd gan feddygon teulu bryderon a'u bod yn atgyfeirio cleifion at y system iechyd, mae'n bwysig iawn fod pobl yn cael y profion diagnostig sydd eu hangen arnynt ac yna'r driniaeth o fewn y GIG. Yng Nghastell-nedd Port Talbot, mae canolfan ddiagnosteg gyflym eisoes ar gael ar gyfer gwasanaeth o'r fath, ond mae'n amlwg fod angen canolfannau o'r fath ledled gweddill Cymru. A wnewch chi ymrwymo heddiw i ehangu'r canolfannau diagnosteg cyflym ar fyrder, er mwyn i feddygon teulu gael yr opsiwn hwnnw ac fel bod cleifion, pan amheuir bod angen archwiliadau pellach arnynt mewn perthynas â thriniaethau canser, yn gallu mynd i mewn i'r system, cael y diagnosis a chael gwybod naill ai nad oes canser arnynt neu symud ymlaen o fewn y gwasanaeth iechyd, ble bynnag y maent yn byw yng Nghymru? Oherwydd rydym i gyd yn gwybod, mewn perthynas â chanser, fod amser yn hollbwysig, ac os ceir aflonyddwch yn y gwasanaeth, fel y gwyddom sy'n digwydd yn sgil COVID, mae angen inni ddefnyddio'r arferion gorau sydd ar gael i ni, a byddwn yn awgrymu bod canolfannau diagnosteg cyflym yn un o'r llwybrau y mae angen eu hagor.
Two points: the first is that we have already restarted screening services, as I've previously reported back to Members. The second is: you may not have picked this up, but Tom Crosby has confirmed that there has been agreement within NHS Wales to roll out a national programme of diagnostic centres, following the trials that have been undertaken in Neath Port Talbot and, actually, at the Royal Glamorgan, at the diagnostic hub there as well. So, I will be providing proper detail to Members on the detail of that roll-out programme, but it's a good opportunity to say that the trial that we've been running in Wales has been successful, and we expect that to take place in a national roll-out. So, I think perhaps we're already half a step ahead of the question that's been asked today.
Dau bwynt: y cyntaf yw ein bod eisoes wedi ailgychwyn gwasanaethau sgrinio, fel y soniais wrth yr Aelodau eisoes. Yr ail yw: efallai nad ydych wedi nodi hyn, ond mae Tom Crosby wedi cadarnhau y cafwyd cytundeb o fewn GIG Cymru i gyflwyno rhaglen genedlaethol o ganolfannau diagnosteg, yn dilyn y treialon a gynhaliwyd yng Nghastell-nedd Port Talbot, ac yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg mewn gwirionedd, yn y ganolfan ddiagnosteg yno hefyd. Felly, byddaf yn rhoi manylion priodol i'r Aelodau am y rhaglen gyflwyno honno, ond mae'n gyfle da i ddweud bod y treial y buom yn ei gynnal yng Nghymru wedi bod yn llwyddiannus, ac rydym yn disgwyl i hynny ddigwydd yn genedlaethol. Felly, rwy'n meddwl efallai ein bod eisoes hanner cam ar y blaen i'r cwestiwn a ofynnwyd heddiw.
3. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ailddechrau gwasanaethau yn ardal Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Hywel Dda? OQ55587
3. Will the Minister make a statement on the resumption of services in the Hywel Dda University Health Board area? OQ55587
Yes. We recognise the challenge of delivering essential services and routine surgery during the COVID-19 pandemic. Management information indicates that treatment activity is around 40 to 50 per cent of that pre the COVID pandemic. Face-to-face out-patient activity is around just over half but it is increasing each month. We continue to see changes in the delivery of services, with virtual review in both new and follow-up out-patient appointments significantly increasing by a factor of 700 per cent, when comparing March 2020 to our current understanding of September 2020 figures.
Gwnaf. Rydym yn cydnabod yr her o ddarparu gwasanaethau hanfodol a llawdriniaethau rheolaidd yn ystod pandemig COVID-19. Mae gwybodaeth reoli yn dangos bod gweithgarwch triniaeth tua 40 i 50 y cant o'r hyn ydoedd cyn y pandemig COVID. Mae gweithgarwch cleifion allanol wyneb yn wyneb ychydig dros hanner yr hyn ydoedd ond mae'n cynyddu bob mis. Rydym yn parhau i weld newidiadau yn y modd y caiff gwasanaethau eu darparu, ac mae arolygiadau rhithwir mewn apwyntiadau newydd ac apwyntiadau dilynol i gleifion allanol wedi cynyddu'n sylweddol, 700 y cant, o gymharu mis Mawrth 2020 â'n dealltwriaeth bresennol o ffigurau mis Medi 2020.
Minister, I'm pleased, of course, to hear that the resumption of services is actually increasing, but I have been contacted by a constituent who is desperately waiting for her son to receive dental treatment and has been told by the local health board that the approximate waiting time is 81 weeks, despite being added to a priority theatre list. Now, I'm sure you'll agree with me that an 81-week wait is just completely unacceptable. Therefore, can you tell us what discussions the Welsh Government is having with health boards about exploring other avenues for patients to receive treatment, such as outsourcing, so that constituents like mine are not facing an 81-week wait?
Weinidog, rwy'n falch o glywed, wrth gwrs, fod lefelau ailddechrau gwasanaethau'n cynyddu mewn gwirionedd, ond mae etholwr wedi cysylltu â mi i ddweud ei bod yn aros i'w mab gael triniaeth ddeintyddol ac wedi cael gwybod gan y bwrdd iechyd lleol mai 81 wythnos yw'r amser aros yn fras, er iddo gael ei ychwanegu at restr flaenoriaethol ar gyfer cael triniaeth theatr. Nawr, rwy'n siŵr y cytunwch fod aros 81 wythnos yn gwbl annerbyniol. Felly, a allwch ddweud wrthym pa drafodaethau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cael gyda byrddau iechyd ynglŷn ag archwilio ffyrdd eraill i gleifion gael triniaeth, megis rhoi triniaethau ar gontract allanol, fel nad yw etholwyr fel fy un i'n wynebu amser aros o 81 wythnos?
In terms of the specifics, I think it would help—and I'd be happy to look at this—to have the specifics of the matter that the Member raises from his constituent, to understand the detail behind that and to be able to provide a more useful answer about that constituent. I want to be helpful in being able to do so.
On the broader point about the waits that exist, there isn't huge capacity within the independent sector here in Wales, and the challenge is, as we move through the pandemic, how the independent sector is already looking to maximise the work that it undertakes individually, and, indeed, we still have provision with the independent sector to help us as part of our winter protection plan and the ability to have surge capacity. It will take a significant period of time to recover all of the activity that has been delayed as a result of the COVID pandemic. As I said in answer to earlier questions, the NHS Confederation report for England sets out a very similar picture in that nation about the range of activity and the length of time it will take to recover.
I think that the objective view would be that everyone would understand that that is what has happened, with the significant loss of life that has already taken place and the risk for even more significant loss of life if we don't take measures to ensure that we don't suffer in the next phase of the coronavirus pandemic. But that does have a consequence for the rest of our national health service activity. The objective view may be on the one hand, but if you're somebody who is waiting a long period of time, and living with discomfort, for activity, that may not be of much comfort to you individually. That's why, in terms of recovery, once we get through the survival part of the pandemic and understanding of what we're going to be able to do to provide, hopefully, a vaccine or effective antiviral treatment, we will then have a significant task ahead of us in Wales and in every other UK nation to understand how we successfully recover that. And that's why, as I say, I think it will take pretty much a full Welsh Parliament term to get back on top of that. That's not scaremongering; that's me being straight and honest with people about the level of challenge we can all face up to.
O ran y manylion, credaf y byddai'n helpu—a byddwn yn fodlon edrych ar hyn—i gael manylion y mater y mae'r Aelod yn ei godi am ei etholwr, i ddeall y manylion sy'n sail i hynny ac i allu rhoi ateb mwy defnyddiol am yr etholwr hwnnw. Rwyf am gynorthwyo gyda hynny.
Ar y pwynt ehangach am yr amseroedd aros, nid oes capasiti enfawr o fewn y sector annibynnol yma yng Nghymru, a'r her o hyd, wrth inni symud drwy'r pandemig, yw sut y mae'r sector annibynnol eisoes yn ceisio gwneud cymaint o waith ag y gall yn unigol, ac yn wir, mae gennym ddarpariaeth o hyd gyda'r sector annibynnol i'n helpu fel rhan o'n cynllun diogelu'r gaeaf a'r gallu i gael capasiti ymchwydd. Bydd yn cymryd cyfnod sylweddol o amser i adfer yr holl weithgarwch sydd wedi'i ohirio o ganlyniad i'r pandemig COVID. Fel y dywedais wrth ateb cwestiynau cynharach, mae adroddiad Cydffederasiwn y GIG ar gyfer Lloegr yn nodi darlun tebyg iawn yn y wlad honno am yr ystod o weithgarwch a'r amser y bydd yn ei gymryd i wella.
Credaf mai'r farn wrthrychol fyddai fod pawb yn deall mai dyna sydd wedi digwydd, gyda'r nifer sylweddol o fywydau a gollwyd eisoes a'r risg o golli cryn dipyn yn rhagor o fywydau hyd yn oed os na chaiff camau eu rhoi ar waith i sicrhau nad ydym yn dioddef yng nghyfnod nesaf y pandemig coronafeirws. Ond mae hynny'n creu canlyniadau i weddill ein gweithgarwch gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Efallai mai dyna'r farn wrthrychol, ond os ydych yn rhywun sy'n aros am gyfnod hir am driniaeth, ac yn byw gydag anghysur, efallai na fydd hynny o lawer o gysur i chi'n bersonol. Dyna pam y bydd gennym dasg sylweddol o'n blaenau yng Nghymru ac ym mhob gwlad arall yn y DU i ddeall sut y gallwn adfer hynny'n llwyddiannus ar ôl inni oroesi'r pandemig a chael dealltwriaeth o'r hyn y gallwn ei wneud i ddarparu brechlyn, gobeithio, neu driniaeth wrthfeirysol effeithiol. Ac fel y dywedaf, dyna pam rwy'n credu y bydd yn cymryd tymor Senedd Cymru llawn i ymdopi â hynny. Nid codi bwganod yw hynny; dyna fi'n bod yn ddidwyll ac yn onest gyda phobl am lefel yr her y gallwn i gyd ei hwynebu.
4. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am farwolaethau o ganlyniad i COVID-19 o fewn ysbytai yn y gogledd? OQ55618
4. Will the Minister make a statement on deaths due to COVID-19 in hospitals in north Wales? OQ55618
Thank you for the question. Data produced by the Office for National Statistics report that there were 460 deaths involving COVID-19 registered in Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board residents in hospitals by 29 September. Those are the most up-to-date figures I have available to me.
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Mae data a gynhyrchwyd gan y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol yn adrodd bod 460 o farwolaethau'n gysylltiedig â COVID-19 wedi'u cofrestru ymhlith trigolion Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr mewn ysbytai hyd at 29 Medi. Dyna'r ffigurau diweddaraf sydd gennyf.
As large parts of the north move into local restrictions tomorrow, of course, we need assurances now from this Government that lessons have been learnt from this summer's outbreak in hospitals, such as Wrexham Maelor. Thirty two COVID-related deaths in six weeks—now, that isn't a criticism of front-line staff who have worked tirelessly throughout this pandemic, but it does raise serious questions about the Welsh Government and senior management's handling of the issue. People need to know why staff on COVID wards were sent back to work on other wards without being tested, why patients admitted to A&E were placed on wards before their COVID test results were back, why patients were released back to the community before their test results were known, why COVID-positive and COVID-negative patients were placed on the same ward. You go into hospital to get better, Minister, but that certainly wasn't the case for some people in Wrexham Maelor over the summer. So, given that Betsi Cadwaladr health board has been under your Government's direct control for the past five years, will you accept your part in this failure, and what steps are you now taking to make sure that that isn't repeated?
Wrth i rannau helaeth o'r gogledd symud i gyfyngiadau lleol yfory wrth gwrs, mae arnom angen sicrwydd yn awr gan y Llywodraeth hon fod gwersi wedi'u dysgu o'r clystyrau o achosion a gafwyd yr haf hwn mewn ysbytai megis Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam. Cafwyd 32 o farwolaethau'n gysylltiedig â COVID mewn chwe wythnos—nawr, nid yw'n feirniadaeth o staff y rheng flaen sydd wedi gweithio'n ddiflino drwy gydol y pandemig, ond mae'n codi cwestiynau difrifol am y ffordd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru a'r uwch reolwyr yn ymdrin â'r mater. Mae angen i bobl wybod pam yr anfonwyd staff ar wardiau COVID yn ôl i weithio ar wardiau eraill heb gael eu profi, pam y gosodwyd cleifion a dderbyniwyd i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys ar wardiau cyn i ganlyniadau eu profion COVID gael eu dychwelyd, pam y rhyddhawyd cleifion yn ôl i'r gymuned cyn cael gwybod beth oedd canlyniad eu profion, pam y gosodwyd cleifion COVID a chleifion heb COVID ar yr un ward. Rydych chi'n mynd i'r ysbyty i wella, Weinidog, ond yn sicr nid oedd hynny'n wir yn achos rhai o'r bobl yn Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam dros yr haf. Felly, o gofio bod bwrdd iechyd Betsi Cadwaladr wedi bod dan reolaeth uniongyrchol eich Llywodraeth dros y pum mlynedd diwethaf, a wnewch chi dderbyn eich rhan yn y methiant hwn, a pha gamau a gymerwch yn awr i sicrhau nad yw hynny'n digwydd eto?
Well of course I have responsibility for the national health service here in Wales, and I'm proud to do so. When the health service gets things wrong, I'm the Minister responsible for the health service, just as when the health service makes a huge difference in saving lives and caring for people in the compassionate way that we've come to expect as a normal everyday reality of what our health service does the overwhelming majority of the time.
As I indicated in answer to Andrew R.T. Davies's questions earlier, we definitely have learned from the outbreak in Wrexham Maelor earlier in the summer, and those lessons are being applied in the Royal Glamorgan at present. It's important we continue to learn as the coronavirus pandemic continues. So, the leadership from Gill Harris in particular, as the nurse director, now acting chief executive until the new chief executive arrives later in the year, was particularly important, as was the way that stakeholders were brought together—not just the leadership team, but also the staff and trade union representatives—and the communications with families.
The risks for this particular virus are real and significant, and every one of these particular outbreaks—whether in a care home, a hospital or in community transmission—highlights the risks and why it's important for our healthcare professionals to adhere to the best infection prevention and control advice, and also why members of the public need to help them in doing so. So, there are, of course, lessons to learn, and I think it may be helpful, in terms of not just the Member's question, but, potentially, in dealing with the committee, to set out and highlight what we think some of those lessons learnt are as we go through the Cwm Taf Morgannwg challenges in the Royal Glamorgan at present, and to understand where we think there is room for improvement and what that means. You'll already see, though, that the chief medical officer's department has already written to all health boards reiterating a range of guidance and advice, and indeed the chief nursing officer has also reiterated the advice and expectations on infection prevention and control across the whole service.
Wel, wrth gwrs, fi sy'n gyfrifol am y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yma yng Nghymru, ac rwy'n falch o wneud hynny. Pan fydd y gwasanaeth iechyd yn gwneud pethau'n anghywir, fi yw'r Gweinidog sy'n gyfrifol am y gwasanaeth iechyd, yn union fel pan fydd y gwasanaeth iechyd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth enfawr yn achub bywydau a gofalu am bobl yn y ffordd dosturiol rydym wedi dod i'w disgwyl fel realiti arferol bob dydd yr hyn y mae ein gwasanaeth iechyd yn ei wneud am y mwyafrif helaeth o'r amser.
Fel y dywedais wrth ateb cwestiynau Andrew R.T. Davies yn gynharach, rydym yn bendant wedi dysgu o'r achosion yn Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam yn gynharach yn yr haf, ac mae'r gwersi hynny'n cael eu cymhwyso yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg ar hyn o bryd. Mae'n bwysig ein bod yn parhau i ddysgu wrth i'r pandemig coronafeirws barhau. Felly, roedd yr arweinyddiaeth gan Gill Harris yn benodol, fel y cyfarwyddwr nyrsio, sydd bellach yn brif weithredwr dros dro nes i'r prif weithredwr newydd gyrraedd yn ddiweddarach yn y flwyddyn, yn arbennig o bwysig, fel roedd y ffordd y daethpwyd â rhanddeiliaid at ei gilydd—nid y tîm arwain yn unig, ond y staff a chynrychiolwyr undebau llafur hefyd—a'r modd y cyfathrebwyd â theuluoedd.
Mae risgiau'r feirws hwn yn real ac yn sylweddol, ac mae pob un o'r clystyrau hyn—boed mewn cartref gofal, ysbyty neu drwy drosglwyddiad cymunedol—yn amlygu'r risgiau a pham ei bod yn bwysig i'n gweithwyr gofal iechyd proffesiynol gadw at y cyngor gorau ar atal a rheoli heintiau, a hefyd pam y mae angen i aelodau o'r cyhoedd eu helpu i wneud hynny. Felly, wrth gwrs, mae gwersi i'w dysgu, a chredaf y gallai fod yn ddefnyddiol, nid yn unig mewn perthynas â chwestiwn yr Aelod, ond wrth ymwneud â'r pwyllgor o bosibl, inni nodi ac amlygu'r hyn y credwn yw rhai o'r gwersi a ddysgwyd wrth inni fynd drwy'r heriau y mae Cwm Taf Morgannwg yn eu hwynebu yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg ar hyn o bryd, a deall lle credwn fod lle i wella a beth y mae hynny'n ei olygu. Fe fyddwch eisoes yn gweld, serch hynny, fod adran y prif swyddog meddygol eisoes wedi ysgrifennu at bob bwrdd iechyd yn ailadrodd amrywiaeth o ganllawiau a chyngor, ac yn wir mae'r prif swyddog nyrsio hefyd wedi ailadrodd y cyngor a'r disgwyliadau mewn perthynas ag atal a rheoli heintiau ar draws y gwasanaeth cyfan.
I've been contacted by ambulance staff in north-east Wales concerned that the lack of ambulance staff testing could contribute to deaths due to COVID-19 in hospitals in north Wales. When I pursued this with the Welsh ambulance NHS trust, the chief executive stated that for asymptomatic ambulance personnel, testing is deemed neither appropriate nor reliable. Their deputy chief executive said, 'If and when the scientific evidence supports repeated testing of asymptomatic individuals, then it will become Welsh Government policy and will be adopted by us at that point'. How, therefore, do you respond to the statement to me by these ambulance staff that although it's of paramount importance that ambulance crews are protected from the transmission of the COVID-19 virus, most ambulance crews have not once been routinely tested, and only symptomatic staff have been given tests? Surely the scientific evidence that necessitates testing for care home staff would apply to ambulance crews, who also work in close proximity to the elderly, the vulnerable and patients with serious underlying health issues who could die in hospital?
Mae staff ambiwlans yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Cymru wedi cysylltu â mi i fynegi pryder y gallai diffyg profion i staff ambiwlans gyfrannu at farwolaethau COVID-19 mewn ysbytai yng ngogledd Cymru. Pan euthum ar drywydd hyn gydag ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans GIG Cymru, dywedodd y prif weithredwr nad ystyrir bod cynnal profion ar bersonél ambiwlans asymptomatig yn briodol nac yn ddibynadwy. Dywedodd eu dirprwy brif weithredwr, 'Os a phan fo'r dystiolaeth wyddonol yn cefnogi profion mynych i unigolion asymptomatig, bydd yn dod yn bolisi Llywodraeth Cymru a chaiff ei fabwysiadu gennym bryd hynny'. Felly, sut rydych chi'n ymateb i'r hyn a ddywedodd y staff ambiwlans wrthyf, sef, er ei bod o'r pwys mwyaf fod criwiau ambiwlans yn cael eu diogelu rhag trosglwyddiad y feirws COVID-19, nad yw'r rhan fwyaf o griwiau ambiwlans wedi cael unrhyw brawf rheolaidd, ac mai staff sy'n dangos symptomau yn unig sydd wedi cael profion? Does bosibl na fyddai'r dystiolaeth wyddonol sy'n mynnu bod angen cynnal profion ar staff cartrefi gofal yn berthnasol i griwiau ambiwlans, sydd hefyd yn gweithio'n agos at bobl hŷn, pobl agored i niwed a chleifion â phroblemau iechyd isorweddol difrifol a allai farw yn yr ysbyty?
The statements of the chief exec and the deputy chief exec are correct. The current scientific and medical evidence does not support the wholesale testing of asymptomatic ambulance staff. If it did, we would shift our position and make sure that we have the capacity deployed in accordance with that advice. The surveillance testing of care home staff has been something that has provided confidence in the sector, and meant that we have been able to deliver not just the testing for people that go into residential care, in particular when discharged from hospital, but that the staff themselves feel protected and we've been able to understand where outbreaks are taking place. The special vulnerability of care home residents is a different factor to the way that paramedics undertake their jobs and the range of people they come into contact with. It’s also a fact that we don't see the same level of staff change within direct contact when it comes to the ambulance service and dealing with people within the community. That isn't really a comparable position to the regular teams of people that need to care for people in care homes. It is the case that if the evidence changes, we will, of course, be happy to shift our position. There's nothing inconsistent with the current policy decision and the best, most up-to-date scientific evidence and advice.
Mae datganiadau'r prif weithredwr a'r dirprwy brif weithredwr yn gywir. Nid yw'r dystiolaeth wyddonol a meddygol bresennol yn cefnogi cynnal profion cyffredinol ar staff ambiwlans asymptomatig. Pe bai'n gwneud hynny, byddem yn newid ein safbwynt ac yn sicrhau bod y capasiti'n cael ei ddefnyddio gennym yn unol â'r cyngor hwnnw. Mae profion cadw golwg ar gyfer staff cartrefi gofal wedi sicrhau hyder yn y sector, ac wedi golygu ein bod wedi gallu darparu profion i bobl sy'n mynd i mewn i ofal preswyl, yn enwedig pan gânt eu rhyddhau o'r ysbyty, a bod y staff eu hunain yn teimlo eu bod wedi'u diogelu a'n bod wedi gallu deall ble mae achosion yn digwydd. Mae natur arbennig o fregus preswylwyr cartrefi gofal yn ffactor gwahanol i'r ffordd y mae parafeddygon yn gwneud eu gwaith a'r amrywiaeth o bobl y dônt i gysylltiad â hwy. Mae hefyd yn ffaith nad ydym yn gweld yr un lefel o newid staff o fewn cysylltiad uniongyrchol yn y gwasanaeth ambiwlans ac o ymdrin â phobl yn y gymuned. Nid yw honno'n sefyllfa y gellir ei chymharu mewn gwirionedd â'r timau rheolaidd o bobl sydd eu hangen i ofalu am bobl mewn cartrefi gofal. Os bydd y dystiolaeth yn newid byddwn yn hapus i newid ein safbwynt wrth gwrs. Nid oes dim sy'n anghyson â'r penderfyniad polisi presennol a'r dystiolaeth a'r cyngor gwyddonol gorau a diweddaraf.
5. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n eu cymryd i fynd i'r afael â phroblem unigrwydd ymhlith pobl hŷn? OQ55583
5. What action is the Welsh Government taking to tackle the problem of loneliness among older people? OQ55583
The Deputy Minister to respond.
Y Dirprwy Weinidog i ymateb.
We have provided £400,000 to Age Cymru to establish a national telephone befriending service to provide emotional support to older people. We've also worked with local government and the third sector to ensure that wider practical and emotional support is in place, such as digital inclusion and buddy schemes.
Rydym wedi darparu £400,000 i Age Cymru i sefydlu gwasanaeth cyfeillio cenedlaethol dros y ffôn i ddarparu cymorth emosiynol i bobl hŷn. Rydym hefyd wedi gweithio gyda llywodraeth leol a'r trydydd sector i sicrhau bod cymorth ymarferol ac emosiynol ehangach ar waith, megis cynlluniau cynhwysiant digidol a chyfeillio.
Can I thank the Minister for her response? Many older people, especially those living alone, are suffering from loneliness. Will the Government promote Zoom sessions for those who are living on their own so they can see and talk to their friends when they have access to ICT? And also, can more be done to increase the number of people getting the benefit from Age Cymru's excellent telephone befriender service?
A gaf fi ddiolch i'r Gweinidog am ei hymateb? Mae llawer o bobl hŷn, yn enwedig rhai sy'n byw ar eu pen eu hunain, yn dioddef o unigrwydd. A wnaiff y Llywodraeth hyrwyddo sesiynau Zoom i'r rhai sy'n byw ar eu pen eu hunain er mwyn iddynt allu gweld a siarad â'u ffrindiau pan fydd TGCh ar gael iddynt? A hefyd, a ellir gwneud mwy i gynyddu nifer y bobl sy'n cael budd o wasanaeth cyfeillio dros y ffôn ardderchog Age Cymru?
I thank Mike Hedges very much for that question. I know that many people, including older people, are lonely. There are also many people not confident digitally, don't use the internet and don't have access to the appropriate devices, and that is why we did fund Age Cymru to establish a telephone befriending service, and as I said, we've given them £400,000 for the fund. We feel that the Friend in Need service is an excellent service, as Mike Hedges says, and our Welsh Government officials have worked with Age Cymru to ensure that links are made in each local authority to ensure that what Friend in Need supplies fits in with what the local authorities are doing as well. And then, through Digital Communities Wales, we are coordinating initiatives in local communities for people, including older people, to access skills and to have the motivation and the confidence to take part in Zoom meetings, as Mike Hedges says. But I think he's asked a very important question and we're certainly working on those ends.
Diolch yn fawr iawn i Mike Hedges am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Gwn fod llawer o bobl, gan gynnwys pobl hŷn, yn unig. Ceir llawer o bobl hefyd nad ydynt yn hyderus yn ddigidol, nid ydynt yn defnyddio'r rhyngrwyd ac nid oes ganddynt fynediad at y dyfeisiau priodol, a dyna pam y gwnaethom ariannu Age Cymru i sefydlu gwasanaeth cyfeillio dros y ffôn, ac fel y dywedais, rydym wedi rhoi £400,000 iddynt ar gyfer y gronfa. Teimlwn fod y gwasanaeth Ffrind mewn Angen yn wasanaeth rhagorol, fel y dywed Mike Hedges, ac mae ein swyddogion yn Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gweithio gydag Age Cymru i sicrhau bod cysylltiadau'n cael eu gwneud ym mhob awdurdod lleol i sicrhau bod yr hyn y mae Ffrind mewn Angen yn ei ddarparu yn cyd-fynd â'r hyn y mae'r awdurdodau lleol yn ei wneud hefyd. A thrwy Cymunedau Digidol Cymru, rydym yn cydlynu mentrau mewn cymunedau lleol i bobl, gan gynnwys pobl hŷn, allu meithrin sgiliau a chael ysgogiad a hyder i gymryd rhan mewn cyfarfodydd Zoom, fel y dywed Mike Hedges. Ond rwy'n credu ei fod wedi gofyn cwestiwn pwysig iawn ac rydym yn sicr yn gweithio i'r perwyl hwnnw.
Deputy Minister, they say that often the loneliest place to be is in a crowd and you will know of the older people's commissioner's report that was issued earlier on care homes and loneliness, isolation, the whole blanket bans that we're having on care homes and how difficult it is with all the lockdowns. Before we go back down that road again, how can the Welsh Government ensure that this time around we can be far more compassionate and more targeted with how we treat each of the individuals that are involved in this scenario? Because we may have people in care homes, but there are an awful lot there who simply find it incredibly difficult to engage with the staff, incredibly difficult to engage with fellow care home residents—people who have got faculties, who do understand what is going on, it's that their bodies are not strong; their minds are absolutely fine. I've had distressing tale after distressing tale told to me of people who just felt so abandoned during the last lockdown and the blanket ban saying, 'You can't see the people you love, that's the end of the discussion', when they were locked up, or felt they were locked up, in their rooms on their own, with very little social contact with anyone.
Ddirprwy Weinidog, dywedant mai'r lle mwyaf unig i fod ynddo yn aml iawn yw mewn torf ac fe fyddwch yn gwybod am adroddiad y comisiynydd pobl hŷn a gyhoeddwyd yn gynharach ar gartrefi gofal ac unigrwydd, ynysigrwydd, yr holl waharddiadau cyffredinol rydym yn eu cael mewn cartrefi gofal a pha mor anodd yw hi gyda'r holl gyfyngiadau symud. Cyn inni fynd ar y trywydd hwnnw eto, sut y gall Llywodraeth Cymru sicrhau y gallwn fod yn llawer mwy tosturiol y tro hwn a thargedu'n well y modd rydym yn trin pob un o'r unigolion sy'n rhan o'r senario hon? Oherwydd efallai fod gennym bobl mewn cartrefi gofal, ond mae llawer iawn o'r bobl yno'n ei chael hi'n anodd iawn ymgysylltu â'r staff, yn eithriadol o anodd ymgysylltu â chyd-breswylwyr yn y cartrefi gofal—pobl sydd o gwmpas eu pethau, pobl sy'n deall beth sy'n digwydd, ond nad yw eu cyrff yn gryf; mae eu meddyliau'n hollol iawn. Rwyf wedi cael un hanes gofidus ar ôl y llall yn dweud wrthyf am bobl a oedd yn teimlo eu bod wedi'u anghofio yn ystod y cyfnod diwethaf o gyfyngiadau symud a'r gwaharddiadau cyffredinol yn dweud, 'Ni chewch weld y bobl rydych chi'n eu caru, a dyna ddiwedd ar y mater', pan oeddent dan glo, neu pan oeddent yn teimlo'u bod dan glo, yn eu hystafelloedd ar eu pen eu hunain, heb fawr ddim cysylltiad cymdeithasol ag unrhyw un.
Thank you, Angela, for that question. Certainly, we're very well aware of this very important issue about how we enable older people in care homes to have access to their loved ones. It's really treading a very difficult line between the protection of the health of the older people in the care homes and the staff and their mental health in terms of having the contact with their loved ones that they need and desire. So, we certainly don't support any blanket bans; we're looking to local authorities to try to approach this on an individual basis and to see where safe visits can be made. We also think it's really important to use all the technology that's available for residents of care homes to keep in touch with their loved ones. We did, of course, provide £800,000 for digital devices for care homes and hospices to enable that to happen, but I absolutely accept the point that there are many residents who won't be able to take advantage of those digital devices. So, we've given guidance about visiting outdoors, and during this very brief period of time—certainly not today—but some time before the winter comes, outdoor visits could still continue. Obviously, it's up to the provider and the local authority, but with our guidance, we want to encourage as much flexibility as possible and we absolutely accept that it's really important for residents of care homes to see their loved ones whenever it's possible for them safely to do so.
Diolch am y cwestiwn hwnnw, Angela. Yn sicr, rydym yn ymwybodol iawn o'r mater pwysig hwn ynglŷn â sut i alluogi pobl hŷn mewn cartrefi gofal i gael cysylltiad â'u hanwyliaid. Mae'n fater o droedio ffin anodd iawn rhwng diogelu iechyd pobl hŷn yn y cartrefi gofal a'r staff, a'u hiechyd meddwl o ran cael y cysylltiad y maent ei angen a'i eisiau â'u hanwyliaid. Felly, yn sicr nid ydym yn cefnogi unrhyw waharddiadau cyffredinol; rydym yn disgwyl i awdurdodau lleol geisio ymdrin â hyn ar sail unigol a gweld ble y gellir ymweld yn ddiogel. Credwn hefyd ei bod yn bwysig iawn defnyddio'r holl dechnoleg sydd ar gael i breswylwyr cartrefi gofal allu cadw mewn cysylltiad â'u hanwyliaid. Darparwyd £800,000 gennym tuag at ddyfeisiau digidol ar gyfer cartrefi gofal a hosbisau i alluogi hynny i ddigwydd, ond rwy'n derbyn y pwynt yn llwyr fod yna lawer o drigolion na fyddant yn gallu manteisio ar y dyfeisiau digidol hynny. Felly, rydym wedi rhoi canllawiau ynglŷn ag ymweld yn yr awyr agored, ac yn ystod y cyfnod byr hwn—yn sicr nid heddiw—ond am beth amser cyn y daw'r gaeaf, gallai ymweliadau awyr agored barhau. Yn amlwg, mater i'r darparwr a'r awdurdod lleol yw hwn, ond gyda'n canllawiau, rydym am annog cymaint o hyblygrwydd â phosibl ac rydym yn derbyn yn llwyr ei bod yn bwysig iawn i drigolion cartrefi gofal weld eu hanwyliaid pryd bynnag y bo'n bosibl iddynt wneud hynny'n ddiogel.
6. Pa asesiad y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'i wneud o effaith cyfyngiadau coronafeirws ar iechyd meddwl a lles yng Nghymru? OQ55601
6. What assessment has the Minister made of the mental health and well-being impact of coronavirus restrictions in Wales? OQ55601
Minister, your microphone.
Weinidog, eich meicroffon.
There we are. It's normally the other way round.
We continue to monitor the impact of the pandemic on mental health and well-being through a range of surveys and other evidence, both in Wales and across the UK. I will be making a detailed statement on our actions to respond to changing mental health needs in the near future.
Dyna ni. Mae'r ffordd arall rownd fel arfer.
Rydym yn parhau i fonitro effaith y pandemig ar iechyd meddwl a lles drwy amrywiaeth o arolygon a thystiolaeth arall, yng Nghymru a ledled y DU. Byddaf yn gwneud datganiad manwl am ein camau gweithredu i ymateb i anghenion iechyd meddwl sy'n newid yn y dyfodol agos.
Minister, we look forward to that statement, because the longer the coronavirus is with us and the longer we have to adjust our lives, then the more profound the potential impact on mental health and well-being is. But some have been more severely affected because of enforced social isolation and shielding, because of financial loss or job loss, and the ever-present worry of exposure to infection, not least those who work in our health and our care sectors and our retail sectors too. Add to this the daily onslaught of social media and traditional media—this means that even when you relax in the comfort of your own home, the virus seems to seep into your living room too. Clubs and organisations like choirs, rugby, knitting clubs, community bingo, sports and arts, which normally provide a safety net of friends and support for all ages, have fallen quiet, too. So, Minister, as the COVID restrictions threaten to stretch into the months ahead, how can Welsh Government and partners provide resources and support to counter a gathering storm of loneliness and isolation and mental health problems that face us?
Weinidog, edrychwn ymlaen at y datganiad hwnnw, oherwydd po hiraf y bydd y coronafeirws gyda ni a pho hiraf y bydd yn rhaid inni addasu ein bywydau, y mwyaf dwys yw'r effaith bosibl ar iechyd meddwl a lles. Ond effeithiwyd yn fwy difrifol ar rai oherwydd ynysigrwydd cymdeithasol gorfodol a'r angen i warchod, oherwydd colled ariannol neu golli swyddi, a'r pryder parhaus ynglŷn â dod i gysylltiad â'r haint, yn enwedig ymhlith y rhai sy'n gweithio yn ein sectorau iechyd a gofal a'n sectorau manwerthu hefyd. Ychwanegwch at hyn ymosodiad dyddiol y cyfryngau cymdeithasol a'r cyfryngau traddodiadol—mae'n golygu, hyd yn oed pan fyddwch yn ymlacio yng nghysur eich cartref eich hun, fod y feirws fel pe bai'n sleifio i mewn i'ch ystafell fyw hefyd. Mae clybiau a sefydliadau fel corau, rygbi, clybiau gwau, bingo cymunedol, chwaraeon a'r celfyddydau, sydd fel arfer yn darparu rhwyd ddiogelwch o ffrindiau a chymorth i bob oedran, wedi tawelu hefyd. Felly, Weinidog, wrth i gyfyngiadau COVID fygwth ymestyn i mewn i'r misoedd i ddod, sut y gall Llywodraeth Cymru a phartneriaid ddarparu adnoddau a chymorth i wrthsefyll y storm gynyddol o unigrwydd ac ynysigrwydd a phroblemau iechyd meddwl sy'n ein hwynebu?
Thank you. We'll continue with the implementation of our all-age loneliness and social isolation strategy, which we published in February, but more specifically, we do take account of surveys and evidence from ourselves and partners about the direct impact upon mental health and well-being of loneliness and isolation, which is part of the reality of the measures we've had to take to keep Wales safe and to protect the maximum number of lives. The measures we've taken in local restrictions, where we've had to unfortunately take apart the extended household bubbles—I recognise that there's a consequence to that. So, what we have done in terms of working with partners is both on the immediate response to the pandemic and actually planning for the future. Our work has focused in the immediate stage on access to tier 0 and tier 1 support—that's the low-level intervention and support—and the current improvements include strengthening the core mental health helpline, the launch of the young persons mental health toolkit, and SilverCloud, which is an online cognitive behavioural therapy programme. We're also providing additional funding to the third sector to help fill gaps in this time of provision.
We're also looking ahead to the future and understanding that we expect an increased level of anxiety within the public at large that we may need to do something about, what we're going to be able to do in terms of access to specialist mental health services, but also, we need to actively think about what we're going to be able to do in terms of the mental health and support needs of our staff, in particular front-line health and social care. The impact of what our staff have had to do to keep people alive, safe and well is something that affects some people now, but we all know there's a well-known evidence base that some of that impact won't manifest itself for a period of time. So, during the next stage, the next term of this Welsh Parliament, we're going to need to have planned for and to understand how we can help to support our staff, and that's why we've already introduced additional support mechanisms across Wales for staff within health and social care.
Diolch. Byddwn yn parhau i weithredu ein strategaeth unigrwydd ac ynysigrwydd cymdeithasol i bob oed a gyhoeddwyd gennym ym mis Chwefror, ond yn fwy penodol, rydym yn ystyried arolygon a thystiolaeth gennym ni a'n partneriaid am effaith uniongyrchol unigrwydd ac ynysigrwydd ar iechyd meddwl a lles, sy'n rhan o realiti'r mesurau y bu'n rhaid inni eu cymryd i gadw Cymru'n ddiogel ac i ddiogelu'r nifer fwyaf posibl o fywydau. Y mesurau rydym wedi'u cymryd mewn cyfyngiadau lleol, lle bu'n rhaid inni, yn anffodus, ddileu swigod yr aelwydydd estynedig—rwy'n cydnabod bod canlyniad i hynny. Felly, mae'r hyn a wnaethom o ran gweithio gyda phartneriaid yn ymateb yn uniongyrchol i'r pandemig ac yn cynllunio ar gyfer y dyfodol mewn gwirionedd. Mae ein gwaith wedi canolbwyntio yn y cam uniongyrchol ar fynediad at gymorth haen 0 a haen 1—sef ymyrraeth a chymorth lefel isel—ac mae'r gwelliannau presennol yn cynnwys cryfhau'r llinell gymorth iechyd meddwl graidd, lansio pecyn cymorth iechyd meddwl pobl ifanc, a SilverCloud, sef rhaglen therapi gwybyddol ymddygiadol ar-lein. Rydym hefyd yn darparu cyllid ychwanegol i'r trydydd sector i helpu i lenwi bylchau yn y cyfnod hwn.
Rydym hefyd yn edrych ymlaen at y dyfodol ac yn deall ein bod yn disgwyl lefel uwch o bryder ymhlith y cyhoedd yn gyffredinol y gallai fod angen inni wneud rhywbeth yn ei gylch, a'r hyn y byddwn yn gallu ei wneud o ran mynediad at wasanaethau iechyd meddwl arbenigol, ond hefyd, mae angen inni fwrw ati i feddwl beth y gallwn ei wneud o ran anghenion iechyd meddwl ac anghenion cymorth ein staff, yn enwedig staff iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol rheng flaen. Mae effaith yr hyn y bu'n rhaid i'n staff ei wneud i gadw pobl yn fyw, yn ddiogel ac yn iach yn rhywbeth sy'n effeithio ar bobl nawr, ond gŵyr pawb ohonom fod yna sylfaen dystiolaeth amlwg na fydd rhywfaint o'r effaith honno'n amlygu ei hun am gyfnod o amser. Felly, dros y cyfnod nesaf, tymor nesaf y Senedd hon yng Nghymru, bydd angen inni fod wedi cynllunio ar gyfer ein staff, a deall sut y gallwn helpu i'w cefnogi, a dyna pam ein bod eisoes wedi cyflwyno mecanweithiau cymorth ychwanegol ledled Cymru ar gyfer staff iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol.
7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am gyfyngiadau symud COVID-19 yn Rhondda Cynon Taf? OQ55605
7. Will the Minister provide an update on COVID-19 lockdown restrictions in Rhondda Cynon Taf? OQ55605
Thank you for the question. Following a sharp increase in cases in Rhondda Cynon Taf, new restrictions were introduced on 17 September to reduce the spread of coronavirus and protect public health. Welsh Ministers reviewed these restrictions on 24 September, and at that time we agreed to retain the restrictions for at least another seven days.
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Yn dilyn cynnydd sydyn yn nifer yr achosion yn Rhondda Cynon Taf, cyflwynwyd cyfyngiadau newydd ar 17 Medi i leihau lledaeniad coronafeirws a diogelu iechyd y cyhoedd. Adolygodd Gweinidogion Cymru y cyfyngiadau hyn ar 24 Medi, a bryd hynny cytunwyd i gadw'r cyfyngiadau am o leiaf saith diwrnod arall.
Minister, thank you for that answer. Residents in my constituency will be extremely concerned by the news of the major COVID-19 outbreak at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital, which has sadly led to the death of eight patients, with a further six in intensive care, Minister. I'd like to express my sadness and shock at this news, but, of course, our thoughts are right now with their families.
I met with the health board chair today, and support the action being taken by the health board to ensure this outbreak is fully contained. Minister, could you update me on the latest position from the Welsh Government perspective, and in particular, can you give details of the support being provided by the Welsh Government to help control the outbreak? Could you also provide any details of the implications for those who have had operations postponed? And finally, Minister, I'd be grateful for a general update on how the local lockdown in Rhondda Cynon Taf is progressing in respect of infection rates, and with the Royal Glamorgan outbreak in mind, do you see a need for further testing resource to be targeted on RCT?
Weinidog, diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw. Bydd trigolion yn fy etholaeth yn pryderu'n fawr ynglŷn â'r newyddion am y nifer fawr o achosion o COVID-19 yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, sydd, gwaetha'r modd, wedi arwain at farwolaeth wyth claf, gyda chwech arall yn yr uned gofal dwys, Weinidog. Hoffwn fynegi fy nhristwch a fy syndod o glywed y newyddion hwn, ond wrth gwrs, mae ein meddyliau gyda'u teuluoedd yn awr.
Cyfarfûm â chadeirydd y bwrdd iechyd heddiw, ac rwy'n cefnogi'r camau sy'n cael eu cymryd gan y bwrdd iechyd i sicrhau bod y clwstwr o achosion wedi'i gyfyngu'n llawn. Weinidog, a allech roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i mi am y sefyllfa ddiweddaraf o safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru, ac yn arbennig, a allwch chi roi manylion y cymorth a ddarperir gan Lywodraeth Cymru i helpu i reoli'r achosion? A allech chi hefyd roi unrhyw fanylion am y goblygiadau i'r rheini y bu'n rhaid gohirio eu llawdriniaethau? Ac yn olaf, Weinidog, byddwn yn ddiolchgar am y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y ffordd y mae'r cyfyngiadau lleol yn Rhondda Cynon Taf yn mynd rhagddynt o ran y cyfraddau heintio, a chan gadw'r achosion yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg mewn cof, a ydych chi'n gweld angen i dargedu adnoddau profi pellach ar gyfer RhCT?
Thank you for that series of questions. In terms of the actions that the health board are taking, my understanding is they had a meeting with local partners, crucially the local authority, yesterday, where they discussed and agreed the range of measures being taken, and I do think it is a sensible safety precaution to minimise routine care when they are experiencing an outbreak of infection. That does mean that people will have procedures delayed and rescheduled at a later date, but that is in the best interest of those patients—not to admit them onto a sight for routine procedures where we understand there is an outbreak where harm is being caused. And that is a temporary measure while the outbreak is being brought under control.
At this point in time, the chief exec of NHS Wales is in regular contact with the health board to have a proper understanding of the measures that are being taken, and the oversight, as indicated earlier, for the measures and the control measures to understand what is happening, with both the staff testing that's in place, to understand if there's a need to do more. As a result of the staff test results, we get to see where the outbreak actually is, and to see how well contained it is. So, we're learning and applying the measures from the Wrexham Maelor Hospital.
In terms of your broader point about measures within the community, I think it's important to reflect that whilst we haven't seen the same reduction in cases that we have seen, fortunately, in Caerphilly—and Newport is also making good progress—there is some cautious evidence to think that we may be seeing a plateau. It's still at a very high level, but we'll want to understand if that really is the case, and that will give us some further hope for the future. But the evidence of Caerphilly is that it is possible to see a reduction in rates, and that this is not a one-way escalator to further and further restrictions. We'll continue to measure and weigh whether there is a need to do more to help control the spread of the virus across the RCT area.
The key point is that it's in the hands of people in their communities to look after each other, and the rules are there for the benefit of everyone. If we get a high level of adherence to that, then we can expect to see a reduction in the spread of coronavirus and the harm that we know it has already caused and is likely to cause. We'll continue to review matters on a regular basis; that includes a provision of testing services. We've actually seen a fall in the number of people taking up the testing services available, so the concern that the health board have is not that we don't have enough access to testing, but that actually there are people who should be getting a test who are not. So, again, it's an appeal for people to use the testing resources that are available within RCT, and we'll continue to review how and where they're provided to make sure they're readily accessible for the communities that need to access them.
Diolch am y gyfres honno o gwestiynau. O ran y camau y mae'r bwrdd iechyd yn eu cymryd, yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, cawsant gyfarfod ddoe â phartneriaid lleol, a'r awdurdod lleol yn fwyaf pwysig, lle trafodwyd ac y cytunwyd ar yr ystod o fesurau sy'n cael eu cymryd, a chredaf fod lleihau gofal rheolaidd yn fesur diogelwch synhwyrol a hwythau'n wynebu clwstwr o achosion o'r haint. Mae hynny'n golygu y bydd llawdriniaethau'n cael eu gohirio a'u hail-drefnu ar gyfer dyddiad diweddarach, ond mae hynny er lles gorau'r cleifion hynny—peidio â'u derbyn ar safle ar gyfer llawdriniaethau rheolaidd lle deallwn fod clwstwr o achosion yn peri niwed. Ac mae hwnnw'n fesur dros dro tra bo'r achosion yn cael eu rheoli.
Ar hyn o bryd, mae prif weithredwr GIG Cymru mewn cysylltiad rheolaidd â'r bwrdd iechyd i gael dealltwriaeth briodol o'r mesurau sy'n cael eu cymryd, a throsolwg, fel y nodwyd yn gynharach, ar y mesurau a'r camau rheoli i ddeall yr hyn sy'n digwydd, gyda'r profion sydd ar waith i staff, i ddeall a oes angen gwneud mwy. Yn sgil canlyniadau profion staff, gallwn weld ble mae'r clwstwr o achosion mewn gwirionedd, a gweld pa mor dda y mae'n cael ei reoli. Felly, rydym yn dysgu ac yn cymhwyso'r mesurau o Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam.
Ar eich pwynt ehangach ynglŷn â mesurau yn y gymuned, credaf ei bod yn bwysig ystyried, er nad ydym wedi gweld yr un gostyngiad yn nifer yr achosion a welsom, yn ffodus, yng Nghaerffili—ac mae Casnewydd hefyd yn gwneud cynnydd da—fod rhywfaint o dystiolaeth ofalus dros feddwl y gallem fod yn gweld lefelau mwy gwastad. Mae'n dal ar lefel uchel iawn, ond byddwn eisiau deall a yw hynny'n wir mewn gwirionedd, a bydd hynny'n rhoi rhywfaint o obaith pellach inni ar gyfer y dyfodol. Ond tystiolaeth Caerffili yw ei bod yn bosibl gweld gostyngiad yn y cyfraddau, ac nad yw'n esgyn un ffordd tuag at fwy a mwy o gyfyngiadau. Byddwn yn parhau i bwyso a mesur a oes angen gwneud mwy i helpu i reoli lledaeniad y feirws ar draws ardal Rhondda Cynon Taf.
Y pwynt allweddol yw mai mater i bobl yn eu cymunedau yw gofalu am ei gilydd, ac mae'r rheolau yno er budd pawb. Os cawn lefel uchel o gydymffurfiaeth â hynny, gallwn ddisgwyl gweld gostyngiad yn lledaeniad coronafeirws a'r niwed y gwyddom ei fod eisoes wedi'i achosi ac yn debygol o'i achosi. Byddwn yn parhau i adolygu materion yn rheolaidd; mae hynny'n cynnwys darparu gwasanaethau profi. Rydym wedi gweld gostyngiad yn nifer y bobl sy'n manteisio ar y gwasanaethau profi sydd ar gael, felly nid yw'r bwrdd iechyd yn pryderu nad oes gennym ddigon o brofion fel y cyfryw, ond yn hytrach, nad yw pobl a ddylai gael prawf yn cael un. Felly, unwaith eto, mae'n apêl ar bobl i ddefnyddio'r adnoddau profi sydd ar gael yn Rhondda Cynon Taf, a byddwn yn parhau i adolygu sut a ble y cânt eu darparu i sicrhau eu bod ar gael yn rhwydd i'r cymunedau a ddylai gael mynediad atynt.
Minister, it's obviously a very serious event in the Royal Glamorgan. This is September—when we face the pressures of winter in late November, December and January, we could be under more severe pressure yet. Now, I know, throughout Wales, part of the management of the COVID risk has been moving some operations to other facilities—cancer operations, for instance, to the Vale Hospital and in Cardiff to Spire. And cancer treatment is going on, as I understand it—emergency treatment will continue at the Royal Glamorgan, but all other elective care has now stopped. Cancer patients in particular have to be protected from infection—you can have a very bad outcome if they've been operated on and are under immunosuppressant drugs. So, can you assure us that zoning hospitals, or moving certain care to specific sites, is going on and will be a way of ensuring that higher levels of cancer care can be delivered than otherwise when we face these sorts of emergencies?
Weinidog, mae'n amlwg fod y digwyddiad yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg yn un difrifol iawn. Mae'n fis Medi—pan wynebwn bwysau'r gaeaf ddiwedd mis Tachwedd, mis Rhagfyr a mis Ionawr, gallem fod dan bwysau mwy difrifol eto. Nawr, ledled Cymru, gwn mai rhan o'r broses o reoli risg COVID yw symud rhai llawdriniaethau i gyfleusterau eraill—llawdriniaethau canser, er enghraifft, i ysbyty Vale ac yng Nghaerdydd i ysbyty Spire. Ac mae triniaethau canser yn mynd rhagddynt, yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf—bydd triniaethau brys yn parhau yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, ond mae'r holl ofal dewisol arall bellach wedi dod i ben. Rhaid diogelu cleifion canser yn enwedig rhag cael eu heintio—gall arwain at ganlyniadau gwael iawn os ydych wedi cael llawdriniaeth a'ch bod ar gyffuriau imiwnoataliol. Felly, a allwch chi ein sicrhau bod creu parthau mewn ysbytai, neu symud mathau penodol o ofal i safleoedd penodol, yn digwydd ac y byddant yn ffordd o sicrhau y gellir darparu lefelau uwch o ofal canser na fel arall pan fyddwn yn wynebu'r mathau hyn o argyfyngau?
Yes, I'm happy to provide that direct assurance—that is exactly what the health board are planning for with their partners. They've not just worked with the local authority partners about the need to have people leave the hospital to create more space in general terms, but in terms of your broader and more specific point about cancer services, they're already working with other partners too to see what can be moved to make sure that treatment continues as far as possible. So, I'm happy to provide the direct assurance the Member looks for.
Gallaf, rwy'n hapus i roi'r sicrwydd uniongyrchol hwnnw—dyna'n union y mae'r bwrdd iechyd yn cynllunio ar ei gyfer gyda'u partneriaid. Maent wedi gweithio gyda phartneriaid awdurdod lleol ynglŷn â'r angen i gael pobl i adael yr ysbyty er mwyn creu mwy o le yn gyffredinol, ond ar eich pwynt ehangach a mwy penodol am wasanaethau canser, maent eisoes yn gweithio gyda phartneriaid eraill hefyd i weld beth y gellir ei symud er mwyn sicrhau bod triniaethau'n parhau cyn belled ag y bo modd. Felly, rwy'n hapus i roi'r sicrwydd uniongyrchol y mae'r Aelod yn gofyn amdano.
I'm deeply concerned about the outbreak of, and the deaths from, COVID-19 at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital and what this will mean for both patients and staff. My sympathies, obviously, go to all of those who've been affected.
Many elective surgeries have already been postponed during the pandemic, and now the backlog is set to get worse. Emergency patients will now be transferred by ambulance to other hospitals, thereby adding a potentially crucial delay to them receiving life-saving treatment.
I want to know what the Government can do to bring this crisis within the hospital to a swift end and create a safe environment for patients and staff. You can improve on testing. Can you boost testing capacity on site so that we can track and trace the virus better? Can you improve the turnaround time for results so that people get those results quicker? The staff need improvements in testing and faster testing, so what can you do to help with that? Finally, do you have any confidence left in the lighthouse labs now?
Rwy'n pryderu'n fawr am y clwstwr o achosion a'r marwolaethau o COVID-19 yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg a beth fydd hyn yn ei olygu i gleifion a staff. Yn amlwg, rwy'n cydymdeimlo â phawb yr effeithiwyd arnynt.
Mae llawer o lawdriniaethau dewisol eisoes wedi'u gohirio yn ystod y pandemig, ac yn awr mae'r ôl-groniad yn mynd i waethygu. Bydd cleifion brys yn cael eu trosglwyddo mewn ambiwlans yn awr i ysbytai eraill, gan ychwanegu oedi a allai fod yn dyngedfennol o ran cael triniaeth sy'n achub eu bywyd.
Rwyf am wybod beth y gall y Llywodraeth ei wneud i ddod â'r argyfwng hwn yn yr ysbyty i ben yn gyflym a chreu amgylchedd diogel i gleifion a staff. Gallwch wella'r rhaglen brofi. A allwch chi roi hwb i'r capasiti profi ar y safle fel y gallwn olrhain y feirws yn well? A allwch chi wella'r amser ar gyfer dychwelyd canlyniadau er mwyn i bobl gael y canlyniadau hynny'n gyflymach? Mae staff angen gweld gwelliannau yn y rhaglen brofi a phrofion cyflymach, felly beth allwch chi ei wneud i helpu gyda hynny? Yn olaf, a oes gennych unrhyw hyder ar ôl yn y labordai goleudy bellach?
I think there's a range of things to run through, hopefully to provide some reassurance to the Member and any people watching. When it comes to outbreaks and outbreaks management, you'll have seen from the previous outbreak in Wrexham Maelor that we actually ran the tests through for the staff and for patients when an outbreak had been declared through our Public Health Wales labs, and they provided a very fast turnaround. The tests for an outbreak are prioritised, so they do have very, very fast turnarounds, so you can expect the 90 per cent plus that we achieved in Wrexham to be turned around within a day.
So, we're actually using NHS Wales tests for this, for the management of the outbreak, and that's exactly what they're intended for, with that additional capacity and the surge capacity that exists in our system. That should provide reassurance for staff and, indeed, for people going onto the site as well. If they do still require treatment and that is the right place for them to have their treatment, then they should be tested. Again, they can expect that to happen through Public Health Wales labs as well.
When it comes to the assurance about people being transferred to other sites, then people will be transferred by professionals within our Welsh ambulance service trust, and they can expect to receive a high quality of care. We're in the fortunate position that there are hospitals that are relatively near to the current site for the Royal Glamorgan, and I don't think that there's a basis for people to be concerned that life-saving treatment could be unduly delayed by that transfer. It's, as ever, a balance, in that if people need to be transferred away from that site, it's because there's a risk to those people in otherwise admitting them, and that's the risk that has to be balanced and the judgment that has to be made. I'm confident in the leadership of the health board; I'm confident in the way they have worked with partners to do so. I believe that we can look forward to the outbreak being brought under control. Certainly, there is no lack of testing or the availability for testing on site for people who really do need to get tested, and I think we demonstrated that with the previous response to the Wrexham Maelor outbreak.
Rwy'n credu bod amrywiaeth o bethau i'w trafod, a rhoi rhywfaint o sicrwydd i'r Aelod, gobeithio, ac i unrhyw bobl sy'n gwylio. O ran clystyrau o achosion a rheoli achosion, fe fyddwch wedi gweld o'r achosion blaenorol yn Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam ein bod wedi cynnal profion ar staff ac ar gleifion pan gafodd y clwstwr o achosion ei ddatgan drwy ein labordai Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru, ac fe wnaethant ddarparu canlyniadau'n gyflym iawn. Mae'r profion ar gyfer clwstwr o achosion yn cael eu blaenoriaethu, felly daw'r canlyniadau'n ôl yn gyflym iawn, a gallwch ddisgwyl y lefelau o 90 y cant a mwy a gyflawnwyd gennym yn Wrecsam o ran darparu canlyniad o fewn diwrnod.
Felly, rydym yn defnyddio profion GIG Cymru ar gyfer hyn, ar gyfer rheoli'r clwstwr o achosion, a dyna'n union yw'r bwriad, gyda'r capasiti ychwanegol a'r capasiti ymchwydd sy'n bodoli yn ein system. Dylai hynny roi sicrwydd i staff ac yn wir, i bobl sy'n mynd ar y safle hefyd. Os oes angen triniaeth arnynt o hyd ac mai dyna'r lle iawn iddynt gael eu triniaeth, dylid eu profi. Unwaith eto, gallant ddisgwyl i hynny ddigwydd drwy labordai Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru hefyd.
O ran y sicrwydd ynglŷn â phobl yn cael eu trosglwyddo i safleoedd eraill, bydd pobl yn cael eu trosglwyddo gan weithwyr proffesiynol yn ymddiriedolaeth gwasanaethau ambiwlans Cymru, a gallant ddisgwyl cael gofal o ansawdd uchel. Rydym yn y sefyllfa ffodus fod yna ysbytai sy'n gymharol agos at safle presennol Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg, ac nid wyf yn credu bod sail i bobl boeni y gallai'r trosglwyddiad arwain at oedi gormodol yn y driniaeth achub bywyd. Fel bob amser, mae'n gydbwysedd rhwng trosglwyddo pobl o'r safle hwnnw os oes angen, a'r risg i'r bobl hynny o'u derbyn fel arall, a dyna'r risg sy'n rhaid ei chydbwyso a'r penderfyniad sy'n rhaid ei wneud. Mae gennyf hyder yn arweinyddiaeth y bwrdd iechyd; mae gennyf hyder yn y ffordd y maent wedi gweithio gyda phartneriaid i wneud hynny. Rwy'n credu y gallwn edrych ymlaen at weld y clwstwr o achosion yn cael ei reoli. Yn sicr, ni cheir diffyg o ran profi ac argaeledd profion ar y safle i bobl y mae gwir angen iddynt gael prawf, a chredaf inni ddangos hynny gyda'r ymateb blaenorol i'r clwstwr o achosion yn Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam.
8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am drefniadau llywodraethu a rheoli prosiectau cyfalaf Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr? OQ55602
8. Will the Minister make a statement on Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board’s governance and management of capital projects? OQ55602
Yes, I welcomed the recent Audit Wales report on the redevelopment scheme at Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. As recognised in that report, improved governance and assurance procedures for capital projects have been introduced and are now embedded into health board and Welsh Government processes.
Gwnaf, rhoddais groeso i adroddiad diweddar Archwilio Cymru ar y cynllun ailddatblygu yn Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. Fel y cydnabyddir yn yr adroddiad hwnnw, mae gweithdrefnau llywodraethu a sicrwydd gwell ar gyfer prosiectau cyfalaf wedi'u cyflwyno ac maent bellach wedi'u hymgorffori ym mhrosesau'r byrddau iechyd a Llywodraeth Cymru.
That remains to be seen, Minister, because in 2012 the Welsh Government approved a project to remove asbestos and refurbish Glan Clwyd Hospital. The project was completed in 2019, at a cost of £170 million—55 per cent more than the original budget. Now, in the Auditor General for Wales's report, the findings are scathing: the Welsh Government never formally approved the health board's outline business case; auditors issued a 'no assurance' opinion on the health board's arrangements for governing and managing the project; and when approving the business cases, the Welsh Government did not sufficiently consider the risks associated with their advisers; concerns too that project design and costings were underdeveloped. Now, I do appreciate, as you mentioned, that steps have been taken to improve arrangements for approving business cases, but let's be honest, you are and were the Minister responsible. So, what assurances can you provide this Senedd with that you will not allow such bad financial management in this health board again? Thank you.
Cawn weld am hynny eto, Weinidog, oherwydd yn 2012 cymeradwyodd Llywodraeth Cymru brosiect i gael gwared ar asbestos ac adnewyddu Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. Cwblhawyd y prosiect yn 2019, ar gost o £170 miliwn—55 y cant yn fwy na'r gyllideb wreiddiol. Nawr, yn adroddiad Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru, mae'r canfyddiadau'n frawychus: ni chymeradwyodd Llywodraeth Cymru achos busnes amlinellol y bwrdd iechyd yn ffurfiol; cyhoeddodd archwilwyr farn 'dim sicrwydd' ar drefniadau'r bwrdd iechyd ar gyfer llywodraethu a rheoli'r prosiect; ac wrth gymeradwyo'r achosion busnes, ni wnaeth Llywodraeth Cymru ystyried y risgiau a oedd ynghlwm wrthynt yn ddigonol gyda'u cynghorwyr; pryderon hefyd nad oedd cynllun a chostau prosiectau wedi'u datblygu'n ddigonol. Nawr, fel y sonioch chi, rwy'n sylweddoli bod camau wedi'u cymryd i wella trefniadau ar gyfer cymeradwyo achosion busnes, ond gadewch inni fod yn onest, chi oedd, a chi yw'r Gweinidog sy'n gyfrifol. Felly, pa sicrwydd allwch chi ei roi i'r Senedd hon na fyddwch yn caniatáu rheolaeth ariannol mor wael yn y bwrdd iechyd hwn eto? Diolch.
Well, when the project was agreed in 2012, I wasn't a Minister in the Government. It's important to make that factual point of accuracy. Actually, the characterisation of the report is partial from the Member. The comments I made in direct answer at the outset come from the conclusions of the Wales Audit Office report itself. It recognised weaknesses at the time, it recognised that the rationale for that was a desire to see the remedial work undertaken, it also recognises there is a significantly better clinical environment for patients and staff to work in as a result of the work that's been undertaken, and it also recognises there are improvements in the process and in the governance arrangements for capital projects, not only within Betsi Cadwaladr for north Wales, but, indeed, across the service as well. That is a more honest and rounded review of the report, rather than the partial version provided by the Member in her second question.
Wel, pan gytunwyd ar y prosiect yn 2012, nid oeddwn yn Weinidog yn y Llywodraeth. Mae'n bwysig gwneud y pwynt ffeithiol hwnnw er cywirdeb. Mewn gwirionedd, mae'r modd y mae'r Aelod yn disgrifio'r adroddiad yn unochrog. Mae'r sylwadau a wneuthum mewn ateb uniongyrchol ar y dechrau yn dod o gasgliadau adroddiad Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru ei hun. Roedd yn cydnabod gwendidau ar y pryd, roedd yn cydnabod mai'r rhesymeg dros hynny oedd awydd i weld y gwaith unioni'n cael ei wneud, mae hefyd yn cydnabod bod amgylchedd clinigol llawer gwell i gleifion a staff weithio ynddo o ganlyniad i'r gwaith a wnaed, ac mae hefyd yn cydnabod bod gwelliannau yn y broses ac yn y trefniadau llywodraethu ar gyfer prosiectau cyfalaf, nid yn unig o fewn Betsi Cadwaladr ar gyfer gogledd Cymru, ond ar draws y gwasanaeth hefyd. Mae hwnnw'n arolwg mwy gonest a chyflawn o'r adroddiad, yn hytrach na'r fersiwn unochrog a roddodd yr Aelod yn ei hail gwestiwn.
Diolch i'r Gweinidog.
I thank the Minister.
Yr eitem nesaf nawr fydd y datganiadau 90 eiliad, gan nad oedd yna unrhyw gwestiynau amserol wedi cael eu cytuno.
The next item is the 90-second statements, and that's because no topical questions had been accepted.
Felly, y datganiad 90 eiliad cyntaf y prynhawn yma yw'r un gan Mike Hedges.
So, the first 90-second statement today is from Mike Hedges.
Daeth David Melding i'r Gadair.
David Melding took the Chair.
Diolch, Llywydd. At approximately this time each year, Senedd Members from all parties don pink items as part of the Wear it Pink for breast cancer campaign. These photographs end up on social media and in local papers. This year, due to the pandemic, we cannot take part in an event in the Senedd, but I do not wish to miss the opportunity to show my support for the breast cancer campaign. I think it is very important.
While we have a COVID pandemic, breast cancer has not gone away. Since launching in 2002, Wear it Pink has raised over £33 million for breast cancer research, which I believe is a remarkable achievement. I urge everyone to support Wear it Pink and help to make possible life-saving breast cancer research and life-changing support for those affected by the disease.
Each year in Wales, around 3,000 women are diagnosed with breast cancer and over 550 women die of the disease. That's why I'm encouraging everyone today to support breast cancer awareness day. We cannot dress up and meet with breast cancer survivors, but we can show our support for breast cancer charities, and I'm trying to do that today.
Diolch, Lywydd. Tua'r adeg hon bob blwyddyn, bydd yr Aelodau o'r Senedd o bob plaid yn gwisgo eitemau pinc fel rhan o ymgyrch Gwisgwch Binc canser y fron. Mae'r ffotograffau hyn yn mynd ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol ac i bapurau lleol. Eleni, oherwydd y pandemig, ni allwn gymryd rhan mewn digwyddiad yn y Senedd, ond nid wyf am golli'r cyfle i ddangos fy nghefnogaeth i ymgyrch canser y fron. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn.
Er bod gennym bandemig COVID, nid yw canser y fron wedi diflannu. Ers ei lansio yn 2002, mae Gwisgwch Binc wedi codi dros £33 miliwn ar gyfer ymchwil canser y fron, sy'n gyflawniad ardderchog yn fy marn i. Rwy'n annog pawb i gefnogi ymgyrch Gwisgwch Binc a helpu tuag at ymchwil sy'n achub bywydau i ganser y fron a chymorth sy'n newid bywyd i'r rhai y mae'r clefyd yn effeithio arnynt.
Bob blwyddyn yng Nghymru, mae tua 3,000 o fenywod yn cael diagnosis o ganser y fron ac mae dros 550 o fenywod yn marw o'r clefyd. Dyna pam rwy'n annog pawb heddiw i gefnogi diwrnod ymwybyddiaeth canser y fron. Ni allwn wisgo pinc i gyfarfod â goroeswyr canser y fron, ond gallwn ddangos ein cefnogaeth i elusennau canser y fron, ac rwy'n ceisio gwneud hynny heddiw.
Thank you. Now, with particular pleasure, I call Elin Jones, the Presiding Officer.
Diolch. Nawr, gyda phleser arbennig, galwaf ar Elin Jones, y Llywydd.
Radio Bronglais yw gorsaf radio ysbyty Bronglais, yn darlledu drwy'r dydd, bob dydd, a'r wythnos yma mae Radio Bronglais yn dathlu ei phen-blwydd yn 50 oed. Dechreuodd yr orsaf yn 1970 pan gyflwynodd aelodau o glwb ieuenctid Bow Street raglen geisiadau ar nos Sul i'r cleifion. Ers hynny, mae'r orsaf wedi mynd o nerth i nerth. Agorwyd stiwdio barhaol gyda chefnogaeth y loteri yn 2001, ac ers 2013 mae Radio Bronglais yn ffrydio dros y we i bedwar ban y byd.
Mae'r orsaf yn cael ei rhedeg gan dîm mawr o wirfoddolwyr ac yn cynnig platfform i dalent newydd lleol. Y mwyaf adnabyddus o'r rhain, siŵr o fod, yw Aled Haydn Jones, a gyfrannodd yn gyntaf i'r orsaf pan oedd e'n ddisgybl 14 oed yn ysgol Penweddig. Mae Aled bellach newydd ei benodi yn bennaeth ar BBC Radio 1. O Radio Bronglais i Radio 1. Da iawn ti, Aled, mae Aberystwyth yn browd iawn ohonot ti.
Mae'r orsaf wedi'i henwebu am lith o wobrau ar hyd y blynyddoedd. Mae rhai o'r cyfweliadau anoddaf, ac yn sicr rai o'r rhai hiraf, dwi wedi eu cael erioed wedi bod ar Radio Bronglais. Ac, wrth gwrs, mae'r orsaf yn cael ei gwerthfawrogi gan gleifion a staff yr ysbyty.
Yn nwyster y pandemig iechyd yma, dewch inni ddiolch a dathlu cyfraniad pob radio ysbyty, ac yn benodol dymuno pen-blwydd hapus i Radio Bronglais.
Radio Bronglais is ysbyty Bronglais's radio station. It broadcasts all day, every day, and this week it is celebrating its fiftieth anniversary. The station was established in 1970 when members of Bow Street youth club presented a Sunday evening requests show for patients. Since then, the station has gone from strength to strength. A permanent studio was established with lottery support in 2001, and since 2013 Radio Bronglais has been streaming live online to all corners of the globe.
The station is run by a large group of volunteers and provides a platform for new local talent—the best known being Aled Haydn Jones, whose first contribution to the station was as a 14-year-old pupil at ysgol Penweddig. Aled has just been appointed head of BBC Radio 1. From Radio Bronglais to Radio 1. Well done, Aled, Aberystwyth is very proud of you.
The station has been nominated for multiple awards over the years. Some of the most challenging, and certainly some of the longest, interviews that I have faced have been on Radio Bronglais. And, of course, the station is appreciated by patients and hospital staff alike.
In the maelstrom of this health pandemic, let us celebrate and thank every hospital radio station, and wish Radio Bronglais a very happy birthday.
Diolch yn fawr. There'll now be a break for 10 minutes to allow changeover in the Chamber.
Diolch yn fawr. Bydd egwyl am 10 munud yn awr i ganiatáu ar gyfer newid staff yn y Siambr.
Ataliwyd y Cyfarfod Llawn am 15:30.
Plenary was suspended at 15:30.
Ailymgynullodd y Senedd am 15:39, gyda David Melding yn y Gadair.
The Senedd reconvened at 15:39, with David Melding in the Chair.
Order, order. The Senedd is back in session.
Trefn, trefn. Dyma ailddechrau trafodion y Senedd.
We move to item 5, which is a debate on the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee report on the impact of the COVID-19 outbreak, and its management, on health and social care in Wales, and I call the chair of the committee to move the motion. Dai Lloyd.
Symudwn at eitem 5, sef dadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon ar effaith COVID-19, a'r modd y mae'n cael ei reoli, ar iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru, a galwaf ar gadeirydd y pwyllgor i gyflwyno'r cynnig. Dai Lloyd.
Cynnig NDM7401 Dai Lloyd
Cynnig bod Senedd Cymru:
Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon ar ei Ymchwiliad i effaith Covid-19, a'r modd y mae'n cael ei reoli, ar iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru, a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 8 Gorffennaf 2020.
Motion NDM7401 Dai Lloyd
To propose that the Senedd:
Notes the report of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee: Inquiry into the impact of the Covid-19 outbreak, and its management, on health and social care in Wales, which was laid in the Table Office on 8 July 2020.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Dwi'n falch iawn o gael agor y ddadl yma heddiw ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon ar COVID-19.
Cyn imi siarad am ein canfyddiadau, hoffwn dalu teyrnged i ymrwymiad ac ymroddiad pawb sydd wedi cyfrannu at y gwaith o sicrhau bod ein gwasanaethau rheng flaen yn parhau i weithredu o dan amgylchiadau anodd dros ben. Er y byddwn yn meddwl yn awtomatig am y sector iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, rhaid cydnabod hefyd ymdrechion diflino cynifer o sectorau a phroffesiynau eraill, a hynny'n aml y tu ôl i'r llenni.
Mae'r cyhoedd hefyd wedi aberthu llawer, ac mae angen cydnabod hynny. Cafodd teuluoedd a chyfeillion eu gwahanu, a chafodd y rhai mwyaf agored i niwed eu hynysu oddi wrth eu rhwydweithiau cymorth ehangach. Mae eu hymdrechion i gadw at y cyfyngiadau symud wedi atal y feirws rhag lledaenu'n sylweddol. Yn anffodus, rydyn ni'nawr yn wynebu heriau tebyg eto, ac rydyn ni'n gofyn i bobl Cymru ddangos yr un ysbryd eto i gyd-ymdrechu i helpu i ffrwyno'r feirws llechwraidd yma unwaith eto.
Pan gadarnhawyd yr achos cyntaf o'r coronafeirws yng Nghymru ym mis Mawrth eleni, ychydig iawn ohonom, gredwn i, oedd yn sylweddoli y byddai'r feirws yn cael effaith mor ddinistriol a hirhoedlog arnom ni i gyd. Mae wedi bod yn greulon ac yn ddidostur ac mae wedi cipio cyfeillion ac anwyliaid oddi arnom. Fel pwyllgor, roeddem yn teimlo ei bod yn bwysig ystyried effaith y coronafeirws, a'r modd y cafodd ei reoli, ar y gwasanaeth iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Rydyn ni wedi ystyried ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru a chyrff cyhoeddus perthnasol, yn ogystal â’r effaith ar staff, cleifion ac eraill sy'n cael gofal neu driniaeth yn y gymuned neu mewn lleoliadau clinigol. Ein diben wrth ymgymryd â'r gwaith hwn oedd ceisio helpu i ddangos beth weithiodd yn dda a beth na weithiodd cystal, a hynny er mwyn dysgu gwersi a'u cymhwyso'n gyflym, efo'r cynnydd yn y gyfradd heintio sy'n digwydd nawr.
Rydyn ni wedi cael tystiolaeth gan amrywiaeth eang o weithwyr proffesiynol ym maes iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, cyrff cyhoeddus a rhanddeiliaid, ac rydyn ni'n parhau i wneud hynny. Cynhaliwyd arolwg o staff rheng flaen, cleifion, gofalwyr, a'r rhai sy'n derbyn gofal neu driniaeth, i ddeall yr effaith y mae'r pandemig wedi ei gael arnynt. Hefyd, roedd gwahoddiad agored i unrhyw rai a oedd yn dymuno rhannu eu profiadau efo ni. Hoffem ddiolch i bawb a roddodd o'u hamser i gyfrannu at ein gwaith.
Mae ein hadroddiad yn cynnwys 28 o argymhellion, ac mae 21 ohonynt wedi'u derbyn yn llawn, a hoffwn ddiolch i'r Gweinidog yn fawr am ei ymateb manwl. Ni fydd gennyf amser i ymdrin â phob argymhelliad, ond byddaf yn ceisio ymdrin â rhai o'r negeseuon allweddol, gan droi yn gyntaf at gyfarpar diogelu personol, PPE. Nawr, yn ystod dyddiau cynnar y pandemig, rhoddwyd cryn dipyn o sylw i'r pryder ynglŷn â sicrhau cyflenwad digonol a pharhaus o gyfarpar diogelu personol. Roedd llawer o'r dystiolaeth gynnar a gawsom yn tanlinellu ofnau a phryderon staff rheng flaen ynghylch cyfarpar diogelu personol priodol. Yn ôl arolwg a gynhaliodd Cymdeithas Feddygol Prydain, nid oedd 67 y cant o feddygon yng Nghymru yn teimlo eu bod wedi'u diogelu'n llawn rhag COVID-19 yn y gwaith, ac roedd 60 y cant ohonyn nhw wedi gorfod prynu eitemau o gyfarpar diogelu personol yn uniongyrchol, neu wedi derbyn cyflenwadau fel rhodd allanol, oherwydd nad oedd y gwasanaeth iechyd yn gallu caffael cyflenwadau digonol.
Dywedodd y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol hefyd fod nifer fawr o'u haelodau, yn enwedig timau nyrsio cymunedol, wedi ffonio am eu bod yn poeni nad oeddent yn gallu cael gafael ar gyfarpar diogelu personol. Dywedodd fod 74 y cant o staff nyrsio wedi dweud eu bod yn poeni am brinder cyfarpar diogelu personol, a bod dros hanner wedi teimlo dan bwysau i ofalu am glaf heb amddiffyniad digonol. Yn wir, dywedodd y Gweinidog iechyd wrthym fod y sefyllfa yn peri pryder gwirioneddol i'r Llywodraeth hefyd ar y pryd.
Mae'r sefyllfa hon wedi gwella, ac rydyn ni'n falch iawn o hynny, ond ni allwn orffwys ar ein rhwyfau. Mae angen sicrwydd arnom y bydd cyflenwadau PPE yn parhau, yn enwedig o gofio'r cynnydd yn y gyfradd heintio'n ddiweddar. Gwnaethom, felly, argymell y canlynol: rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru fynd ati ar fyrder i gyhoeddi strategaeth i sicrhau cyflenwad gwydn o gyfarpar diogelu personol; i gasglu ynghyd lefelau digonol o gyfarpar diogelu personol priodol ar gyfer unrhyw achos yn y dyfodol; i adolygu’r cyfarpar diogelu personol y mae wedi’i gasglu ynghyd i sicrhau ei fod yn parhau i fod o ansawdd digonol a’i fod yn addas at y diben; i gyhoeddi strategaeth ar gyfer sicrhau gwydnwch y trefniadau dosbarthu; i weithio gyda phartneriaid i sicrhau bod canllawiau ar gyfarpar diogelu personol yn cael eu diweddaru yng ngoleuni’r cyngor gwyddonol diweddaraf, a chyfathrebu’r cyngor hwn yn glir i’r staff. Dyna argymhelliad 1. Dwi'n falch iawn o ddweud bod yr argymhelliad hwn wedi’i dderbyn a bod cynllun strategol ar gyfer caffael cyfarpar diogelu personol ar gyfer iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn cael ei ddatblygu.
Thank you very much, acting Deputy Llywydd. I'm very pleased to open this debate on the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee's report on the COVID-19 outbreak.
Before I turn to our findings, I'd like to pay tribute to the commitment and dedication of everyone who has contributed to the work of keeping our front-line services operating in the most difficult of circumstances. Whilst our thoughts turn automatically to the health and social care sector, we must also recognise the tireless efforts of so many other sectors and professions, often behind the scenes.
The public has also made huge sacrifices, and we need to recognise that. Families and friends were separated, and the most vulnerable were isolated from their wider support networks. Their collective efforts in adhering to the lockdown rules significantly suppressed the spread of the virus. Sadly, we now face similar challenges, and we are asking the Welsh public to show the same collective spirit to help curb this insidious virus once again.
When the first case of coronavirus in Wales was confirmed in March 2020, very few of us, I imagine, realised that the virus would have such a devastating and long-lasting impact on us all. It's been cruel and ruthless and it's stolen the lives of friends and loved ones. As a committee, we felt that it was important to consider the impact of coronavirus, and its management, on health and social care services in Wales. We have considered the response of the Welsh Government and relevant public bodies, as well as the impact on staff, patients and others receiving care or treatment in clinical settings or in the community. Our purpose in undertaking this work was to seek to identify what worked well and what didn't work so well, in order to learn lessons and to apply them quickly to any rise in infection rates.
We've taken evidence from a wide range of professionals in health and social care, public bodies and stakeholders, and we continue to do so. We carried out a survey of front-line staff, patients, carers, and those receiving care or treatment, to understand the impact of the pandemic on them. We also issued an open invitation to anyone who wished to share their experiences with us. I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to contribute to our work.
Our recommendations include 28 recommendations, and 21 have been accepted in full, and I'd like to thank the Minister for his detailed response. I won't have time to address every recommendation, but I will try to cover some of the key messages, turning first to personal protective equipment. Now, in the early days of the pandemic, a great deal of coverage focused on concerns regarding the adequate and continuous supply of PPE. Much of the early evidence we received reflected the fears and concerns of front-line staff about the availability of appropriate PPE. According to a survey carried out by the British Medical Association, 67 per cent of doctors in Wales did not feel fully protected from COVID-19 at work, and 60 per cent had had to purchase items of PPE directly, or had received supplies as a donation, because the NHS had not been able to procure adequate supplies.
The Royal College of Nursing also reported that many of their members, particularly community nursing teams, had called because they were distressed at being unable to access PPE. It said that 74 per cent of nursing staff had raised concerns about shortages of PPE, with over half having felt pressurised to care for a patient without adequate protection. Indeed, the Minister for health told us that the situation was a very real concern for Government at the time.
This position has improved, and we welcome this, but we cannot afford to be complacent. We need assurance on the continuity of PPE supplies, particularly in light of the recent rise in infection rates. We therefore made the following recommendations: the Welsh Government must, as a matter of urgency, publish a strategy for securing a resilient supply of PPE; stockpile sufficient quantities of appropriate PPE for any future outbreak; keep under review the PPE that it has stockpiled to ensure that it remains of adequate quality and is fit for purpose; publish a strategy for ensuring the resilience of distribution arrangements; work with partners to ensure that guidance on PPE is kept up to date in light of the most recent scientific advice, and communicate this advice clearly to staff. That's recommendation 1. I am very pleased to say that this recommendation was accepted and that a strategic plan for the procurement of PPE for health and social care is being developed.
O gofio bod Cymru, yn draddodiadol, yn dibynnu’n gryf ar gyflenwadau o Tsieina a gwledydd eraill yn Asia, mae’n hanfodol ein bod yn cefnogi cynhyrchwyr yng Nghymru i ddatblygu ein cyflenwad cartref ein hunain. Gwnaethom argymell felly fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn adolygu ei systemau i sicrhau bod y mecanweithiau ar waith i alluogi gweithgynhyrchwyr yng Nghymru i ymateb yn gyflym wrth gyflenwi cyfarpar diogelu personol priodol pe bai unrhyw achosion yn y dyfodol. Dyna argymhelliad 2. Wrth dderbyn yr argymhelliad hwn, roedd y Gweinidog yn cydnabod rôl bwysig busnesau Cymru yn y gwaith o gryfhau ein gallu i wrthsefyll ail don o COVID-19. A dywedodd y bydd y cynllun caffael PPE ar gyfer iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn gyfuniad o gyflenwadau lleol a rhyngwladol.
I droi at gartrefi gofal rŵan, roedd cynnal profion mewn cartrefi gofal yn fater dadleuol, a chafodd Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig a Llywodraeth Cymru eu beirniadu, fel rydym ni'n gwybod, am fethu â chynnal digon o brofion mewn lleoliadau gofal. Mae ffigurau’r Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol yn dangos y bu 663 o farwolaethau oherwydd COVID-19 yng nghartrefi gofal Cymru.
Yn ôl Fforwm Gofal Cymru, roedd y drefn o ryddhau cleifion o’r ysbytai i gartrefi gofal wedi cyfrannu’n sylweddol at y ffaith bod yr haint wedi lledaenu mor frawychus o gyflym mewn cartrefi gofal. Dywedodd Comisiynydd Pobl Hŷn Cymru ei bod yn pryderu nad oedd hawliau pobl hŷn wedi’u diogelu’n ddigonol. Roedd nifer y marwolaethau yn gysylltiedig â COVID mewn cartrefi gofal yn peri pryder mawr i ni. Rydym ni'n credu bod agwedd gychwynnol Llywodraeth Cymru tuag at gynnal profion mewn cartrefi gofal yn ddiffygiol ar y dechrau, ac roedd ei hymateb i’r argyfwng cynyddol yn rhy araf wedyn. O ganlyniad, roedd nifer y marwolaethau mewn cartrefi gofal yn cyfrif am 28 y cant o’r holl farwolaethau cysylltiedig â choronafeirws yng Nghymru.
Roedd argymhelliad 9 yn ein hadroddiad yn galw ar i Lywodraeth Cymru sicrhau bod pob claf sy’n cael ei ryddhau o’r ysbyty yn uniongyrchol i gartref gofal wedi cael prawf, yn unol â’r arfer gorau diweddaraf, i sicrhau bod preswylwyr a staff yn cael eu diogelu cystal ag y bo modd. Cafodd yr argymhelliad hwn ei dderbyn mewn egwyddor. Dywedodd y Gweinidog fod yn rhaid cael canlyniadau’r profion cyn rhyddhau cleifion o’r ysbyty. Hoffwn ddiolch i'r Gweinidog am y sicrwydd hwn ac am dderbyn ein hargymhelliad.
I droi at brofi, olrhain a diogelu yn olaf, cyn imi orffen ar y dechrau yma, hoffwn sôn am y strategaeth profi, olrhain a diogelu—system olrhain cysylltiadau Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae gan y rhaglen profi ac olrhain o dan y strategaeth nifer o ddibenion allweddol, gan gynnwys: gwneud diagnosis o'r clefyd; cadw golwg ar iechyd y boblogaeth; olrhain cysylltiadau; a pharhad busnes, gan alluogi gweithwyr allweddol i ddychwelyd i’r gwaith yn gyflymach ac yn fwy diogel.
Mae nifer o dystion wedi tynnu sylw at bwysigrwydd dychwelyd canlyniadau profion yn gyflym er mwyn sicrhau llwyddiant y strategaeth profi, olrhain a diogelu. Fel y dywedodd Syr David King, aelod o SAGE Annibynnol, mae’n hanfodol bwysig bod canlyniadau’r profion ar gael yn gyflym.
Dwi'n dyfynnu: 'Os daw’r canlyniad bum niwrnod ar ôl cynnal y prawf, ac mae’r person hwnnw’n dal yn crwydro o amgylch ei gymuned, dychmygwch faint o bobl y gall eu heintio yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw.'
Rydym ni'n cytuno y bydd cyflymder y profi, yr amser mae’n ei gymryd i brosesu canlyniadau, a chywirdeb y canlyniadau hynny yn hanfodol i lwyddiant y strategaeth profi, olrhain a diogelu. Po hiraf yw’r amser prosesu o’r dechrau i’r diwedd, o gasglu sampl i roi canlyniadau i unigolion, po fwyaf yw’r oedi ar yr adeg pan mae’r clefyd ar ei fwyaf heintus, neu po fwyaf tebygol yw hi y bydd pobl—[Anghlywadwy.]
[Anghlywadwy.]—argymell felly fod yn rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru, gan weithio gydag Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru, geisio sicrhau bod canlyniadau pob prawf yn cael eu dychwelyd o fewn 24 awr. Dyna argymhelliad 19, a chafodd yr argymhelliad hwnnw hefyd ei dderbyn mewn egwyddor.
Clywsom hefyd y byddai cefnogaeth y cyhoedd yn allweddol i lwyddiant y strategaeth. Mae angen i bobl fod yn barod i fod yn onest wrth rannu manylion am eu symudiadau a'u cysylltiadau, a hunanynysu os gallent fod mewn perygl, a hynny er budd y gymuned ehangach. Gwnaethom argymell, felly, fod yn rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru, gan weithio gyda’i phartneriaid, sicrhau ei bod yn cyflwyno negeseuon cyhoeddus clir, a’u hailadrodd yn gyson ar lefel genedlaethol a lleol, yn tanlinellu cyfrifoldeb unigolion i hunanynysu os oes ganddynt symptomau a phwysigrwydd gofyn am brawf ar unwaith. Dyna argymhelliad 25, a derbyniwyd yr argymhelliad hwnnw.
Wrth gwrs, os bydd y broses o olrhain cysylltiadau yn llwyddiannus, mae’n bosib y bydd yn rhaid i bobl hunanynysu sawl gwaith, ac mae hyn yn bryder arbennig i bobl sydd mewn swyddi cyflog isel, gan na fyddant yn gallu fforddio aros gartref o'r gwaith. Yn ôl y canllawiau presennol, mae gan unrhyw un sy'n hunanynysu hawl i dâl salwch statudol, sef £95 yr wythnos, ond nid yw hwn yn gyflog cynaliadwy nac yn gyflog byw. Mae’r demtasiwn i anwybyddu symptomau a chyngor a mynd i’r gwaith yn bryder gwirioneddol, felly, ac yn faes y mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru roi sylw brys iddo, yn enwedig o ystyried nad yw trefniadau tâl salwch statudol wedi’u datganoli. Rydym felly wedi galw ar i Lywodraeth Cymru fynd ati, fel mater o frys, i holi Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig am y trefniadau tâl salwch statudol ar gyfer gweithwyr gofal cymdeithasol ac eraill yng Nghymru sy’n gorfod hunanynysu. Rwy’n croesawu’r ffaith bod y Gweinidog yn derbyn yr argymhelliad yma a’i sicrwydd ei fod yn parhau i dynnu sylw Gweinidogion y Deyrnas Unedig at y pryderon am effaith ariannol hunanynysu.
I gloi, hoffwn gydnabod bod maint yr her sy’n wynebu Llywodraethau a’u partneriaid wrth iddynt ymdopi ag effeithiau COVID-19 wedi bod yn ddigynsail hollol. Gwnaed ymdrechion aruthrol yn gyffredinol a llwyddwyd i gyflawni gwyrthiau. Yn anffodus, mae cyfraddau heintio yn codi unwaith eto. Rhaid inni ddefnyddio'r profiad a gawsom a’r cyfan a ddysgwyd wrth frwydro yn erbyn y don gyntaf o'r clefyd i sicrhau bod unrhyw fesurau newydd a gyflwynir i reoli'r feirws yn effeithiol yn amserol ac yn gymesur. Diolch yn fawr.
Given that Wales has traditionally been reliant on supplies from China and other Asian countries, it is vital that we support manufacturers in Wales to develop our own homegrown supply. We therefore recommended that the Welsh Government review its own systems to ensure that the mechanisms are in place to enable manufacturers in Wales to respond quickly in supplying appropriate PPE in the event of any future outbreaks. That's recommendation 2. In accepting this recommendation, the Minister acknowledged the important role of Welsh businesses in strengthening our resilience to withstand a second peak of COVID-19, and said that the PPE procurement plan for health and social care will blend local manufacture and international supply.
Now, in turning to care homes, testing in care homes proved to be a controversial issue, with both the UK and Welsh Governments coming under criticism, as we know, for lack of testing in care settings. The Office for National Statistics figures show that there had been 663 COVID-19 deaths in Welsh cares homes.
According to Care Forum Wales, the practice of discharging hospital patients to care homes played a major role in enabling the infection to spread at such an alarming rate in care homes. The Older People's Commissioner for Wales said that she had concerns that older people’s rights may not have been sufficiently protected. The number of COVID-related deaths in care homes was a source of great concern to us. We believe that the Welsh Government’s initial attitude in terms of testing in care homes was deficient at the outset and their response was too slow thereafter. As a result, the number of deaths in care homes accounted for 28 per cent of all coronavirus-related deaths in Wales.
Recommendation 9 in our report called for the Welsh Government to ensure that all patients being discharged from hospital directly into a care home have been tested, in accordance with latest best practice, in order to ensure that residents and staff have maximum protection. This recommendation was accepted in principle. The Minister said that there had to be test results available before patients could be discharged from hospitals. I'd like to thank the Minister for this reassurance and for accepting our recommendation.
In turning to test, trace and protect finally, before I finish this first part, I'd like to talk about the test, trace and protect strategy—the contact tracing system of the Welsh Government. The test and trace programme under the strategy has a number of key purposes, including: diagnosing the disease; population health surveillance; contact tracing; and business continuity, enabling key workers to return to work more quickly and more safely.
A number of witnesses have highlighted the importance of the timely return of test results to secure the success of the TTP strategy. As Sir David King, a member of Independent SAGE told us,
'the turnaround time after testing is critically important. If you get the test result five days after the test is made, and that person is still wandering around in their community, imagine the number of people infected during that period.'
We agree that the speed of testing, the turnaround of testing results, and the accuracy of those results will be critical to the success of the TTP strategy. The longer the end-to-end turnaround time, from sample collection to the reporting of results to individuals, the greater the delay at the point when the disease is most infectious, or the greater the likelihood of—[Inaudible.]—.
[Inaudible.]—recommend therefore that the Welsh Government, working with Public Health Wales, should seek to ensure that every test result is returned within 24 hours. That is recommendation 19, and that recommendation was also accepted in principle.
We also heard that public support would be crucial to the success of the strategy. People must be willing to be honest in sharing details about their movements and their contacts, and to self-isolate if they are at risk for the benefit of the wider community. We recommended, therefore, that the Government, working with its partners, should ensure that they present clear public messaging and to rehearse those consistently at a local and national level, highlighting individual's responsibility to self-isolate, if they have symptoms, and the importance of seeking a test immediately. That's recommendation 25, and that was accepted.
Of course, if contact tracing is successful, people could be asked to self-isolate multiple times and this is a particular worry for people in low-paid employment who cannot afford to take time off work. According to the current guidance, anyone who is self-isolating is entitled to statutory sick pay, which is £95 a week, but this is not a sustainable wage or a living wage. The temptation to ignore symptoms and advice and to attend work is therefore a very real concern, and it's an area that requires urgent attention from the Welsh Government, particularly given that arrangements for statutory sick pay are not devolved. We've therefore called on the Welsh Government, as a matter of urgency, to pursue with the UK Government the arrangements for statutory sick pay for social care workers and others in Wales who do have to self-isolate. I welcome the fact that the Minister has accepted this recommendation and his assurance that he continues to raise concerns with UK Ministers about the financial impact of self-isolation.
In closing, I would like to acknowledge that the scale of the challenge facing Governments and their partners in dealing with the effects of COVID-19 has been unprecedented. Enormous efforts have been made across the board, resulting in many significant achievements. Unfortunately, infection rates are on the rise once again. We must use the experience that we have and everything that we learnt in battling the first wave of the disease to ensure that any new measures introduced to control the virus are effective, timely and proportionate. Thank you very much.
I welcome the opportunity to contribute in this debate today. I appreciate I wasn't on the committee at the time of this review that was undertaken, or this inquiry that was undertaken, but I'd just like to pay tribute to my predecessor, Angela Burns, for the work that she did in her time on the committee, and also the Chair of the committee, the staff and the other Members who have produced a very detailed and concise piece of work, with some key recommendations, to say the least on it. And the Government, by and large, has engaged with those recommendations, although, as a politician of some 13 years standing, you're always a bit reticent when you hear 'agreed in principle' because, regrettably, that very often doesn't get delivered, and many, if not all of these recommendations, if taken in their entirety, would add hugely to an improved offer, an improved response, now that some months after this report was published we're seeing what many would call the second wave of COVID hitting many of our towns and cities and communities the length and breadth of Wales.
I think, in the report, as almost like a third person coming to it, reading it from cover to cover, the index of dates at the back is a timely reminder of how quick we've travelled in this year, from January right the way through to when this report was published in July, and the level, the volume, and the complete transformation in services, the way Government responds—I mean, you only need to look at our work here today and yesterday, how COVID has consumed everything that we do because it is all-encompassing.
Reading some of the comments around PPE and the recommendations around PPE, it was a timely reminder of the real challenges that the sectors face, both health and the care sector in particular. And reading it, it emphasised the point how health and the care sector need to be taken as equal partners, rather than one sector getting the provision of PPE in the first instance and then maybe the care sector getting what was left over and maybe playing catch-up. That does need to be rectified, if that situation of constraint of supply does happen again. And I'm pleased to hear the assurances of the Minister, saying that the supply of PPE has been greatly enhanced since the beginning of the outbreak, but it is really important that that parity of esteem is listened to and understood. In particular, if the Minister in his response could highlight what progress has been made in relation to the work that the Government have commissioned from Deloitte about the demand mapping around PPE, again, that would be good to understand how, if that squeeze comes on in the winter months, there will be equity across Wales in the supply chain of PPE.
Testing, as we hear much about these days, and the concerns around testing—in the absence of a vaccine, testing is really our only defence to be on top of this virus and to understand where the prevalence of the virus is and, ultimately, how it is tracking through our communities. Reading some of the recommendations that have been put in place, and, importantly, how they'll be deployed is of critical importance, in particular when you think of ramping up the volume of tests that will be available. It is a little discouraging to see that, in July of this year, the Welsh Government's own testing capacity was at 15,000; here, some two months later, in September, it's still on 15,000, and the comments that the First Minister himself made—I applaud him for his honesty—that maybe we'd be able to deal with that on a day basis, but it wouldn't be sustainable over any long-term period of time to use that full capacity. And so, working united across the United Kingdom, despite the problems of the lighthouse labs, will be the only solution to bring a real volume of testing here into Wales, and indeed other parts of the United Kingdom. It would be my sincere hope that many of the glitches that have hit the system can be ironed out.
I hope the Minister can give us an up-to-date position on how the testing numbers are being deployed, because, very often, as politicians, as the report highlights, we fixate on capacity, but it's the ability for the whole system to work, from the capacity through to the number of tests that are done, to the response rate, as the Chair highlighted, and the importance of getting that response back within 24 hours. Any effective testing system has to get at least 90 per cent of its results back within 24 hours. If it fails to do that, then we're really missing the goal of achieving that best effect from the testing regime.
I appreciate that my five minutes are nearly up on the clock. TTP: the scale of test, track and protect is enormous, as the report highlights, and the BMA's evidence in particular spoke of this enormous programme that will be required from between 7,500 to 8,000 contacts in a day, up to 0.5 million people at any one time being in the system. That gives a sense of the scale of operation that we're talking about, and if at the start of this year people said to politicians, 'What do you think are going to be your top-five challenges?', I don't think anyone would have touched on a COVID outbreak and the all-encapsulating nature of it.
So, I do commend the report to the public at large and I do commend the activity of the committee in undertaking this report, and I look forward to continuing the work of the committee when it revisits some of the recommendations to see that they've been implemented in the future. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.
Rwy'n croesawu'r cyfle i gyfrannu at y ddadl hon heddiw. Rwy'n sylweddoli nad oeddwn ar y pwyllgor pan gynhaliwyd yr adolygiad hwn, neu’r ymchwiliad hwn, ond hoffwn dalu teyrnged i fy rhagflaenydd, Angela Burns, am y gwaith a wnaeth yn ystod ei hamser ar y pwyllgor, a hefyd i Gadeirydd y pwyllgor, y staff a'r Aelodau eraill sydd wedi cynhyrchu gwaith manwl a chryno, gyda rhai argymhellion allweddol, a dweud y lleiaf. Ac mae'r Llywodraeth, ar y cyfan, wedi ymgysylltu â'r argymhellion hynny, er fy mod, a minnau’n wleidydd ers oddeutu 13 mlynedd, bob amser ychydig yn betrus wrth glywed 'cytunwyd mewn egwyddor' oherwydd yn aml iawn, yn anffodus, yn aml iawn ni chaiff hynny ei gyflawni, a byddai llawer, os nad pob un o'r argymhellion hyn, o'u derbyn yn eu cyfanrwydd, yn ychwanegu’n aruthrol at gynnig gwell, ymateb gwell, a ninnau bellach, fisoedd ar ôl cyhoeddi'r adroddiad hwn, yn gweld yr hyn y byddai llawer yn ei galw'n ail don o COVID yn taro llawer o'n trefi a'n dinasoedd a'n cymunedau ledled Cymru.
Yn yr adroddiad, bron â bod fel trydydd person yn dod ato, o’i ddarllen o glawr i glawr, credaf fod y mynegai o’r dyddiadau yn y cefn yn atgoffa'n amserol o ba mor gyflym rydym wedi teithio eleni, o fis Ionawr hyd at pan gyhoeddwyd yr adroddiad hwn ym mis Gorffennaf, a'r lefel, y nifer, y trawsnewidiad llwyr mewn gwasanaethau, yn y ffordd y mae'r Llywodraeth yn ymateb—nid oes ond angen i chi edrych ar ein gwaith yma heddiw a ddoe i weld sut y mae COVID wedi llyncu popeth a wnawn gan ei fod yn hollgwmpasol.
Wrth ddarllen rhai o'r sylwadau ynghylch cyfarpar diogelu personol a'r argymhellion ynghylch cyfarpar diogelu personol, roedd yn atgof amserol o'r heriau gwirioneddol y mae'r sectorau’n eu hwynebu, yn enwedig y sector iechyd a'r sector gofal. Ac wrth ei ddarllen, roedd yn pwysleisio'r pwynt ynglŷn â sut y mae angen ystyried y sector iechyd a'r sector gofal yn bartneriaid cyfartal, yn hytrach na bod un sector yn cael darpariaeth o gyfarpar diogelu personol yn y lle cyntaf, a bod y sector gofal yn cael yr hyn sydd dros ben ac efallai’n gorfod dal i fyny. Mae angen cywiro hynny, os bydd y sefyllfa honno’n codi eto gyda chyflenwadau cyfyngedig. Ac rwy'n falch o glywed sicrwydd y Gweinidog fod y cyflenwad o gyfarpar diogelu personol wedi'i gynyddu’n helaeth ers dechrau'r argyfwng, ond mae'n bwysig iawn clywed a deall y parch cydradd hwnnw. Yn benodol, pe gallai’r Gweinidog dynnu sylw yn ei ymateb at y cynnydd a wnaed mewn perthynas â’r gwaith y mae’r Llywodraeth wedi’i gomisiynu gan Deloitte ar fapio’r galw am gyfarpar diogelu personol, unwaith eto, byddai hynny’n dda er mwyn deall sut y ceir tegwch ledled Cymru yn y gadwyn gyflenwi cyfarpar diogelu personol pe bai'r pwysau'n cynyddu yn ystod misoedd y gaeaf.
Mae profi, fel y clywn yn aml y dyddiau hyn, a'r pryderon ynglŷn â phrofi—yn absenoldeb brechlyn, profi yw ein hunig amddiffyniad i gadw rheolaeth ar y feirws ac i ddeall ble mae'r achosion o'r feirws, ac yn y pen draw, sut y mae'n lledaenu drwy ein cymunedau. Mae darllen rhai o'r argymhellion a wnaed, ac yn bwysig iawn, sut y cânt eu rhoi ar waith yn hanfodol bwysig, yn enwedig pan feddyliwch am gynyddu nifer y profion a fydd ar gael. Mae braidd yn ddigalon gweld, ym mis Gorffennaf eleni, fod capasiti profi Llywodraeth Cymru yn 15,000; yma, tua deufis yn ddiweddarach, ym mis Medi, mae'n dal i fod yn 15,000, a'r sylwadau a wnaeth y Prif Weinidog ei hun—rwy’n ei ganmol am ei onestrwydd—y byddem, efallai'n gallu ymdrin â hynny ar sail ddyddiol, ond na fyddai defnyddio’r capasiti llawn hwnnw’n gynaliadwy dros unrhyw gyfnod hirdymor o amser. Ac felly, gweithio ar y cyd ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig, er gwaethaf problemau’r labordai goleudy, fydd yr unig ateb er mwyn dod â lefel go iawn o brofion yma i Gymru, ac yn wir, i rannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig. Rwy'n gobeithio'n fawr y gellir datrys llawer o'r namau sydd wedi amharu ar y system.
Rwy'n gobeithio y gall y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni ynglŷn â sut y defnyddir y nifer o brofion, oherwydd yn aml iawn, fel gwleidyddion, fel y noda’r adroddiad, rydym yn canolbwyntio ar gapasiti, ond mae a wnelo hyn â gallu'r system gyfan i weithio, o'r capasiti i nifer y profion a gyflawnir, a'r gyfradd ymateb, fel y nododd y Cadeirydd, a phwysigrwydd cael yr ymateb yn ôl o fewn 24 awr. Mae’n rhaid i unrhyw system brofi effeithiol sicrhau bod o leiaf 90 y cant o'i chanlyniadau yn ôl o fewn 24 awr. Os na all wneud hynny, rydym yn methu'r nod o sicrhau bod y gyfundrefn brofi mor effeithiol ag y bo modd.
Rwy'n sylweddoli bod fy mhum munud bron ar ben ar y cloc. Profi, olrhain, diogelu: mae graddfa’r cynllun profi, olrhain a diogelu’n enfawr, fel y noda’r adroddiad, a soniodd tystiolaeth Cymdeithas Feddygol Prydain yn benodol am y rhaglen enfawr hon y bydd ei hangen, o rhwng 7,500 ac 8,000 o gysylltiadau mewn diwrnod, i hyd at 0.5 miliwn o bobl ar un adeg yn y system. Mae hynny'n rhoi syniad o raddfa'r gwaith rydym yn sôn amdano, a phe bai pobl wedi dweud wrth wleidyddion ddechrau'r flwyddyn hon, 'Beth y credwch fydd eich pum prif her?', ni chredaf y byddai unrhyw un wedi crybwyll argyfwng COVID a'i natur hollgwmpasol.
Felly, rwy'n cymeradwyo'r adroddiad i'r cyhoedd yn gyffredinol, ac rwy'n cymeradwyo gweithgarwch y pwyllgor yn cyflawni'r adroddiad hwn, ac edrychaf ymlaen at barhau â gwaith y pwyllgor pan fydd yn ailedrych ar rai o'r argymhellion i weld eu bod wedi'u rhoi ar waith yn y dyfodol. Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd.
Once again, our Chair has given a very thorough and strong introduction to the report in his contribution this afternoon, and I wish to join him in paying tribute to all the NHS staff and social care workers across Wales for what they did during the pandemic at its peak, since then and are continuing to do now, and I'm sure that they will be doing through all of the winter. We clapped them every week at that time, but they deserve so much more than that. Their commitment is undying and unquestionable.
I think we need to remind ourselves, also, why we put the report in, because it was about the impact of the virus and what lessons we would learn from that. There are still so many families that have been devastated by that virus and the loss of loved ones, others who have suffered severe health conditions as a consequence of contracting the virus and spending a long time in hospital, and we must never forget those people in everything we do.
But we have come a long way since the start of the pandemic, and, hopefully, we have learnt a lot. There is much to learn, because if we look at the report and some of the issues that are raised, and I'm repeating some of the comments that Dai Lloyd introduced, but if you look at them, they are still relevant today, they haven't gone away. The PPE question: I'm very pleased that we do now have sufficient PPE, but when this came out, we didn't. No matter how much we thought we had, we didn't. I'm very pleased, also, that local businesses are now using opportunities to create and develop PPE—I've got one in my own constituency, Rototherm, which has transformed itself. Fantastic work is being done to ensure that Wales has a supply of locally based businesses that are producing the PPE.
But also, let's not forget what wearing the PPE does for staff, because if we read our survey of the staff, and some of the comments they made, they found it very difficult to work in those circumstances, and it took its toll on them. Sometimes we need to reflect upon that, so that we ensure that we protect our staff as well, and that we get this PPE right. We don't want to put people in a position where they are facing life-threatening positions when they are going to care for people because we haven't got the PPE for them. We must get that right. I know the Minister will say that we're doing that; we've got larger numbers now, and I very much appreciate that. But I also want to ask him, perhaps—because halfway during the pandemic, the guidelines for PPE were changed, and I want to ask whether there are more changes to come in those guidelines because of the lessons learnt during that pandemic, and people's ability—. Because paramedics are saying that sometimes they go into a situation wearing simply an apron and gloves, which is not sufficient on occasions. We need to make sure our staff are protected.
Can I also raise the issue of care homes? We know full well that, during the initial stages, they were vulnerable, and the residents, who are vulnerable themselves, became, unfortunately, victims of the virus. We saw many, many residents hospitalised, and some of those unfortunately did not survive. Dai has highlighted that there were over 600 of them. We are in a position now where we have put better protection in place, but we did ask for testing to be done on a regular basis. I know that's being done, and I'm very pleased about that, and we must make sure it continues, but I'm still concerned on the home testing agenda and the quality of training given to people to do that. There are too many false negatives and false positives coming through the testing system, and we have to minimise those. One of the ways of minimising that is by following recommendation 10, bullet point 2, which says, 'Ensure it's done by a suitably qualified individual'. There are many nurses already employed in care homes, and there could be others being used in those that don't have them, so I don't think it's something that the Government should have rejected. I think that the Government should have accepted that and made sure that there were appropriately qualified people taking those tests to minimise the possibilities of false negatives and false positives, because that does give misleading information, and it does give misleading confidence on occasions, so we need to address that.
The other issue, obviously, is testing—people have talked about testing—in general, and we raised this question about testing and getting ready. In fact, we actually said, I think in recommendation 8, that we need to prepare for a second wave, and that we should work with partners to take steps for sufficient capacity. Yet we're still talking about capacity. We're still talking about whether we're using lighthouse labs or not. There's a question there still being raised. I appreciate the Minister's already had this many times, but I hope he takes on board the fact that testing is not going to be something that will go away—it is something that is going to drive the agenda forward, and we must ensure that we address the capacity issue, both of the ability to take the test, but the ability to analyse the tests as well. Because that's where people are getting confused; they think, 'Oh, I can have a test', but don't forget it's got to be analysed and the results have got to be provided. We said at that point in time that we want more within 24 hours, and we're still not seeing some of those figures increasing. We need to address that point.
I'll close by saying I want to give huge thanks to the committee staff. Many people don't always appreciate it, but committee staff worked unstintingly throughout the period, and over the summer period, to ensure that we had the evidence we needed to provide this report. We must give thanks to them and to the witnesses that gave us the evidence. Those witnesses represent the people on the front line, and we can't forget that, either. So, thank you very much. And please, Minister, I appreciate we have come a long way, and I appreciate we are not where we were back in March, but let's make sure the lessons are learnt and that the advice is followed. Thank you.
Unwaith eto, mae ein Cadeirydd wedi rhoi cyflwyniad trylwyr a chryf iawn i’r adroddiad yn ei gyfraniad y prynhawn yma, a hoffwn ategu ei deyrnged i holl staff y GIG a’r gweithwyr gofal cymdeithasol ledled Cymru am yr hyn a wnaethant pan oedd y pandemig ar ei anterth ac ers hynny, a'r hyn y maent yn parhau i’w wneud yn awr ac y byddant yn ei wneud drwy'r gaeaf rwy'n siŵr. Buom yn curo dwylo iddynt bob wythnos bryd hynny, ond maent yn haeddu cymaint mwy na hynny. Mae eu hymrwymiad yn ddiamheuol ac yn ddi-ben-draw.
Credaf fod angen inni atgoffa ein hunain hefyd pam y gwnaethom gyflwyno'r adroddiad, gan ei fod yn ymwneud ag effaith y feirws a pha wersi y byddem yn eu dysgu o hynny. Mae'n dal i fod cymaint o deuluoedd wedi eu dinistrio gan y feirws hwnnw ac ar ôl colli anwyliaid, mae eraill wedi dioddef cyflyrau iechyd difrifol o ganlyniad i ddal y feirws ac wedi treulio amser maith yn yr ysbyty, ac mae’n rhaid inni beidio ag anghofio'r bobl hynny ym mhopeth a wnawn.
Ond rydym wedi dod yn bell ers dechrau'r pandemig, ac wedi dysgu llawer gobeithio. Mae llawer i'w ddysgu, oherwydd os edrychwn ar yr adroddiad a rhai o'r materion a godir, ac rwy'n ailadrodd rhai o'r sylwadau a wnaeth Dai Lloyd, ond os edrychwch arnynt, maent yn dal yn berthnasol heddiw, nid ydynt wedi diflannu. Y cwestiwn ynghylch cyfarpar diogelu personol: rwy'n falch iawn fod gennym gyfarpar diogelu personol digonol bellach, ond pan ddaeth hwn allan, nid oedd hynny’n wir. Ni waeth faint o eitemau y credem oedd gennym, nid oedd hynny'n wir. Rwy'n falch iawn hefyd fod busnesau lleol bellach yn defnyddio cyfleoedd i greu a datblygu cyfarpar diogelu personol—mae gennyf un yn fy etholaeth fy hun, Rototherm, sydd wedi trawsnewid ei hun. Mae gwaith rhagorol yn mynd rhagddo i sicrhau bod gan Gymru gyflenwad o fusnesau lleol yn cynhyrchu'r cyfarpar diogelu personol.
Ond hefyd, gadewch inni beidio ag anghofio’r hyn y mae gwisgo'r cyfarpar diogelu personol yn ei wneud i staff, oherwydd pe baem yn darllen ein harolwg o'r staff, a rhai o'r sylwadau a wnaethant, roeddent yn ei chael yn anodd iawn gweithio o dan yr amgylchiadau hynny, a chafodd hynny effaith arnynt. Weithiau, mae angen inni fyfyrio ar hynny, fel ein bod yn sicrhau ein bod yn diogelu ein staff hefyd, a'n bod yn gwneud pethau’n iawn mewn perthynas â’r cyfarpar diogelu personol hwn. Nid ydym am roi pobl mewn sefyllfa lle maent yn wynebu sefyllfaoedd lle mae eu bywydau yn y fantol pan fyddant yn mynd i ofalu am bobl am nad oes gennym gyfarpar diogelu personol ar eu cyfer. Mae'n rhaid inni gael hynny'n iawn. Gwn y bydd y Gweinidog yn dweud ein bod yn gwneud hynny; mae gennym fwy o gyfarpar diogelu personol bellach, ac rwy'n gwerthfawrogi hynny'n fawr. Ond hoffwn ofyn iddo hefyd, efallai—oherwydd hanner ffordd drwy’r pandemig, newidiwyd y canllawiau ar gyfer cyfarpar diogelu personol, a hoffwn ofyn a oes mwy o newidiadau i ddod i’r canllawiau hynny oherwydd y gwersi a ddysgwyd yn ystod y pandemig hwnnw, a gallu pobl—. Oherwydd mae parafeddygon yn dweud eu bod weithiau'n mynd i sefyllfa'n gwisgo ffedog a menyg yn unig, ac nid yw hynny’n ddigonol ar brydiau. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod ein staff yn cael eu diogelu.
A gaf fi hefyd godi mater cartrefi gofal? Gwyddom yn iawn eu bod, ar y cychwyn, yn agored i niwed, ac yn anffodus, roedd preswylwyr, sy'n agored i niwed eu hunain, yn dal y feirws. Gwelsom lawer iawn o breswylwyr yn mynd i’r ysbyty, ac yn anffodus, ni oroesodd rhai o'r rheini. Mae Dai wedi nodi bod dros 600 ohonynt. Rydym mewn sefyllfa bellach lle rydym wedi rhoi gwell mesurau diogelwch ar waith, ond gwnaethom ofyn am gynnal profion yn rheolaidd. Gwn fod hynny'n digwydd, ac rwy'n falch iawn am hynny, ac mae’n rhaid inni sicrhau bod hynny’n parhau, ond rwy'n dal i bryderu ynglŷn â’r agenda profi gartref ac ansawdd yr hyfforddiant a roddir i bobl wneud hynny. Mae gormod o ganlyniadau negatif ffug a chanlyniadau positif ffug yn dod drwy'r system brofi, ac mae'n rhaid inni gyfyngu ar y rheini. Un o'r ffyrdd o leihau hynny yw drwy ddilyn argymhelliad 10, pwynt bwled 2, sy'n dweud y dylid sicrhau 'bod profion o’r fath yn cael eu gwneud gan unigolion sydd wedi cael hyfforddiant addas'. Mae llawer o nyrsys eisoes yn cael eu cyflogi mewn cartrefi gofal, a gallai fod rhai eraill yn cael eu defnyddio yn y rheini sydd heb gael hyfforddiant o'r fath, felly ni chredaf ei fod yn rhywbeth y dylai'r Llywodraeth fod wedi'i wrthod. Credaf y dylai'r Llywodraeth fod wedi derbyn hynny, a sicrhau bod pobl sydd wedi cael hyfforddiant addas yn gwneud y profion hynny i sicrhau cyn lleied â phosibl o ganlyniadau negatif ffug a chanlyniadau positif ffug, gan fod hynny'n rhoi gwybodaeth gamarweiniol, ac yn rhoi hyder camarweiniol ar brydiau, felly mae angen inni fynd i'r afael â hynny.
Y mater arall, yn amlwg, yw profi—mae pobl wedi sôn am brofi—yn gyffredinol, a chodwyd y cwestiwn hwn gennym am brofi a pharatoi. Mewn gwirionedd, dywedasom, yn argymhelliad 8 rwy'n credu, fod angen inni baratoi ar gyfer ail don, ac y dylem weithio gyda phartneriaid i gymryd camau i sicrhau capasiti digonol. Serch hynny, rydym yn dal i sôn am gapasiti. Rydym yn dal i drafod a ydym yn defnyddio labordai goleudy ai peidio. Mae cwestiwn yno sy’n dal i gael ei godi. Rwy'n derbyn bod y Gweinidog wedi clywed hyn sawl tro yn barod, ond gobeithio ei fod yn ystyried y ffaith na fydd profion yn rhywbeth a fydd yn diflannu—mae'n rhywbeth a fydd yn gyrru'r agenda yn ei blaen, ac mae'n rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn mynd i’r afael â mater capasiti, o ran y gallu i gymryd y prawf, ond y gallu i ddadansoddi’r profion hefyd. Oherwydd dyna ble mae pobl yn drysu; maent yn meddwl, 'O, gallaf gael prawf', ond peidiwch ag anghofio bod yn rhaid ei ddadansoddi a bod yn rhaid i’r canlyniadau gael eu darparu. Roeddem yn dweud bryd hynny ein bod am gael rhagor o fewn 24 awr, ac nid ydym yn gweld rhai o'r ffigurau hynny’n cynyddu o hyd. Mae angen inni fynd i'r afael â'r pwynt hwnnw.
Rwyf am gloi drwy ddiolch yn fawr i staff y pwyllgor. Nid yw llawer o bobl yn sylweddoli hyn bob amser, ond mae staff y pwyllgor wedi gweithio'n ddi-baid drwy gydol y cyfnod, a thros yr haf, i sicrhau bod gennym y dystiolaeth roedd ei hangen arnom i ddarparu'r adroddiad hwn. Mae'n rhaid inni ddiolch iddynt ac i'r tystion a roddodd y dystiolaeth i ni. Mae'r tystion hynny'n cynrychioli'r bobl ar y rheng flaen, ac ni allwn anghofio hynny, chwaith. Felly, diolch yn fawr iawn. Ac os gwelwch yn dda, Weinidog, rwy'n sylweddoli ein bod wedi dod yn bell, ac rwy'n sylweddoli nad ydym lle roeddem yn ôl ym mis Mawrth, ond gadewch inni sicrhau bod y gwersi’n cael eu dysgu a bod y cyngor yn cael ei ddilyn. Diolch.
I just have one more speaker before I call the Minister, and that's Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Un siaradwr arall yn unig sydd gennyf cyn i mi alw ar y Gweinidog, a Rhun ap Iorwerth yw'r siaradwr hwnnw.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Gadeirydd. Mi fuaswn i'n licio ategu'r diolch yna i waith rhyfeddol tîm y pwyllgor, y tîm clercio ac ymchwil ac yn y blaen, sydd wedi gweithio mor ddiflino drwy'r cyfnod yma. Dwi wedi bod yn falch iawn o allu bod yn rhan o'r ymchwiliad yma—ymchwiliad sy'n parhau, wrth gwrs, a pharhau fydd o am sbel. Yr adroddiad cyntaf mewn cyfres ydy hwn, yn canolbwyntio ar nifer o feysydd penodol. Af fi drwy'r rheini. Un o'r elfennau mawr, wrth gwrs, y buon ni'n edrych arno fo oedd profi, sy'n rhan mor, mor allweddol o'r frwydr yn erbyn y feirws. Rydyn ni'n gwybod bod y system ddim mor gadarn ag y dylai fo fod. Mae yna nifer fawr o fy etholwyr i wedi bod yn cysylltu efo fy swyddfa i—pobl yn methu cael profion cartref ac yn gorfod teithio'n bell i ganolfannau profi; pobl yn methu cael profion oherwydd bod ganddyn nhw ddim cyfeiriad e-bost a ffôn symudol—does gan bawb ddim o hyd—pobl sy'n cael trafferth gyrru, hyd yn oed, i ganolfannau profi. Mae'n rhaid inni sicrhau bod yr elfen yma yn cael ei chryfhau.
Thank you, Chair. I'd like to echo the thanks to the amazing work of the committee team, the clerks and the research team and so forth, who have worked so tirelessly through this period. I've been very pleased to be able to be part of this inquiry, which is ongoing, of course, and will continue for some time. It's the first report in a series, focusing on a number of specific areas. I'll go through those. One of the major elements that we looked at was testing, which is such a key part of the battle against the virus. We know that the system isn't as robust as it should be. There are a great number of my constituents who have contacted my office—people not being able to have tests at home and having to travel a long way to testing centres; people failing to have tests because they don't have an e-mail address or a mobile phone—not everyone has those—and some people having trouble driving to certain test centres. We have to ensure that this aspect is strengthened.
Dwi yn falch bod y Llywodraeth wedi derbyn argymhelliad 8, sef y dylen nhw asesu'n ofalus y galw tebygol am brofion yn y dyfodol a chymryd camau i sicrhau bod yna ddigon o allu i brofi, fel y bydd unrhyw un sydd angen prawf yn gallu cael un yn gyflym ac yn hawdd. Ond y gwir amdani ydy bod yna fethiant i gyrraedd y galw presennol, wrth gwrs, heb sôn am y galw cynyddol y bydd yna dros y gaeaf. Ac mae eisiau gwahaniaethu'n bendant rhwng capasiti a faint o brofi sy'n digwydd yn ymarferol. Mi soniodd y Prif Weinidog yr wythnos yma am gapasiti o 15,000 o brofion y dydd yng Nghymru, ond yn aml iawn 2,500 i 3,000 o brofion oedd yn cael eu gwneud.
Dwi'n gwybod bod problemau cael prawf wedi dod i'r amlwg fwyaf wrth i ysgolion ailagor. Mi aeth capasiti yn brin ar yr union amser oedd angen iddo fo gynyddu. Mi fuaswn i wedi disgwyl y buasai yna fwy o baratoi wedi bod am hynny, mwy o adeiladu gwytnwch yn y system erbyn dechrau y tymor ysgol. Ac er gwaethaf addewidion y bydd pethau'n well mewn ychydig wythnosau o ran labordai lighthouse, dydy o ddim yn rhoi llawer o ffydd i rywun o ran y gwytnwch fydd ei angen dros y gaeaf, wrth i'r ail don barhau i dyfu.
Dwi'n falch bod y Llywodraeth hefyd yn derbyn ein hargymhelliad 7 ni, fod angen datblygu cynllun clir ar gyfer profion rheolaidd ac ailadroddus ar gyfer staff iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, yn cynnwys staff ansymptomatig—rhywbeth dwi wedi bod yn galw amdano fo yn gyson. Mae yna dal gormod o bobl ar y rheng flaen sy'n nerfus iawn. Dwi'n clywed straeon am nyrsys cymunedol, er enghraifft, sydd ddim yn cael cynnig profion yn bryderus iawn am fynd i gartrefi cleifion, rhag ofn iddyn nhw basio'r feirws ymlaen. Mae'n rhaid inni ehangu sgôp y profi ansymptomatig i gynnwys gofalwyr yn y cartref hefyd, er enghraifft.
Mater arall y buon ni'n sbio arno fo oedd y goblygiadau ariannol ar lywodraeth leol gydol y pandemig yma. Dwi'n croesawu'r gydnabyddiaeth bod angen i'r Llywodraeth gadarnhau fel mater o flaenoriaeth y pecyn cymorth ariannol i awdurdodau lleol i gefnogi'r gwaith o gyflogi gweithwyr olrhain proffesiynol, yn dibynnu beth maen nhw wedi bod yn ei wneud dros y misoedd o ran adleoli staff. Argymhelliad 24 ydy hwnnw. Mi oedd hwn yn rhywbeth y gwnes i godi efo'r Gweinidog cyllid ym mis Gorffennaf. Timau gwirfoddol oedd yna o fewn y cynghorau sir bryd hynny yn gwneud y gwaith—gweithwyr oedd wedi cael eu tynnu o adrannau eraill i mewn i'r tîm olrhain. Dwi'n meddwl ei bod hi'n amlwg, er bod y nifer o staff olrhain wedi tyfu'n arw erbyn hyn, fel y clywon ni yn y pwyllgor y bore yma, y bydd angen cefnogaeth bellach gan ein cynghorau ni ar y ffrynt yma.
Gwaith arall pwysig y mae llywodraeth leol wedi bod yn arwain arno fo ydy helpu pobl a fu'n gwarchod neu'n 'shield-o'. Mi welwch chi sawl cyfeiriad yn yr adroddiad am gefnogi pobl oedd yn cael eu gwarchod, a gwneud yn siŵr bod pobl yn cael bwyd, ac yn y blaen. Ac ar y pwynt hwnnw, mae'n rhaid imi ddweud, roeddwn i'n siomedig efo'r ymateb y ces i yr wythnos yma i lythyr gen i yn gofyn am sicrhau cymorth i lywodraeth leol allu cynllunio ar gyfer darparu bwyd ac ati i bobl fregus yn ystod ail don. Roedd yna bartneriaeth wych yn Ynys Môn, yn cael ei arwain gan y cyngor, efo Menter Môn, Medrwn Môn a busnesau lleol fel bwyty Dylan's, ac ati, i wneud yn siŵr bod pecynnau bwyd yn cael eu dosbarthu. Mi oedd Dylan's yn awyddus i weld bod paratoadau mewn lle i allu ymateb yn gyflym i'r ail don. Roedd yr ymateb yn gyflym iawn yn Ynys Môn y tro cyntaf, ond wrth gwrs mi oedd yn rhaid dysgu wrth fynd. Y tro yma, mae'r wybodaeth a'r cefndir gennym ni. Mae angen gwneud yn siŵr bod yna well paratoi, a doeddwn i ddim yn clywed hynny yn y llythyr yma, felly mi liciwn i glywed sicrwydd bod gwaith cynllunio yn mynd ymlaen.
Ac yn olaf, dwi'n ategu'r argymhellion am gael cyfarpar diogelu PPE digonol yn ystod y pandemig yma. Mi glywsom ni'r gair 'diolch' yn cael ei ddweud dro ar ôl tro i'n gweithwyr iechyd a gofal ond, wrth gwrs, beth maen nhw'n chwilio amdano fo, beth mae angen iddyn nhw wybod rŵan ac yn y dyfodol ydy bod yr adnoddau yno sy'n eu galluogi nhw wneud eu gwaith yn ddiogel.
I am pleased that the Government has accepted recommendation 8, namely that they should assess carefully the likely demand for tests in the future and ensure that there is enough capacity to test in the future so that anyone who needs a test can access one quickly and easily. But the truth is that there is a failure to meet current demand, let alone the demand over the winter. We need to differentiate between capacity and how much testing is happening in practice. The First Minister talked about 15,000 capacity, whereas actually very often it was only 2,000 or 3,000 tests that were being done.
I know that the problems of having tests have come to the surface as schools have opened, and capacity has been short when it was needed. I would have expected there to have been more preparation for that and more robustness in planning or building for the start of the school term. And despite the pledges that things will be better in a few weeks in terms of the lighthouse labs, it doesn't give much confidence in terms of winter robustness, as the second wave continues to grow.
I'm pleased that the Welsh Government has accepted recommendation 7 in terms of developing a clear plan for regular and repeated testing of health and social care staff, including asymptomatic staff. I have been calling for that consistently, and there are still too many people on the front line who are nervous. I hear stories about community nurses, for example, who don't get offered tests and are very concerned about passing the virus on to patients. We need to expand the scope of asymptomatic testing at home, for example.
Another issue is the financial implications on local government during this pandemic. I do welcome the recognition that the Government needs to confirm as a priority the support package for local authorities to support the work of employing tracing professionals, as they've been doing. And that's recommendation 24. That's something I raised with the finance Minister in July. There were volunteers in local authorities and workers who had been pulled from other departments into the tracing teams, and I think that it is obvious that, even though the number of tracing staff has grown, as we heard in the committee this morning, there will be further support needed by our councils on this front.
Further work that local government has been leading on is helping people to shield. And you've seen a great number of references in the report in terms of supporting people who have been shielding and ensuring that people are being fed, and so forth. And on that point, I was disappointed with the response I had to a letter from me asking for support for local authorities to be able to plan for providing food and so forth for vulnerable people during the second wave. There was a great partnership in Anglesey, being led by the council, with Menter Môn and local businesses, and Dylan's restaurant, and so forth, ensuring that food packages were being distributed. And Dylan's were very eager to see that preparations were in place to be able to respond quickly to a second wave. The response was very quick in Anglesey the first time, but of course we need to learn as we go. We have the background information now, and we need to ensure that there is better preparation, and I didn't hear that in that letter. So, I'd like to have an assurance that planning work is being done.
And finally, I echo the recommendation in terms of adequate PPE during this pandemic. We've heard the word 'thanks' being said time after time to health workers and care workers but, of course, what they need is information now and in the future that the resources will be there to allow them to do their work properly.
Diolch yn fawr. I call the Minister for Health and Social Services, Vaughan Gething.
Diolch yn fawr. Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Vaughan Gething.
Thank you, acting Deputy Presiding Officer. May I first begin by thanking the committee for their time in considering this important topic, and what is an interim report? The scrutiny continues; I had the pleasure of more than two hours in the company of the committee today answering questions about the continuing work that we do on how we keep Wales safe, and the response of our health and social care system. I want to put on record my thanks to the staff across our health and social care sector, not only for their incredible hard work and dedication to care for people with COVID-19 and their incredible compassion and resilience—they really are a credit to each and every one of us—but also the work that they have done with others in addressing urgent health and care needs to protect those who are the most vulnerable within our community.
I support and accept or accept in principle the majority of the recommendations from the committee. Our national winter protection plan has now been published and this is an overarching plan that sets out our expectations for health and social care, and informs engagement with wider partners and stakeholders. This ambitious plan will seek to embed our learning from the report to strengthen our approach over the forthcoming winter period.
On testing, the testing strategy published on 15 July outlines our plan for testing health and social care staff, and I've recently provided a written statement on the priorities for testing at the start of this week. Our strategy is based upon the latest evidence. As ever, it is subject to change as the evidence base may change during the course of the pandemic. And I would gently say to the committee that they will hear and they'll continue to hear anecdotal demand for asymptomatic testing. The committee can't demand a broadly evidence-based approach and demand fidelity to the scientific and medical evidence to help keep Wales safe, and then choose when to cherry pick and amplify demands that are made to overturn the evidence that we rely on to help keep Wales safe.
We've openly set out the evidence base from the technical advisory group, and the committee have had the opportunity to hear evidence from the co-chairs of TAC, including the chief scientific adviser on health as well as access to the chief medical officer. We're continuing to openly publish that evidence and to make choices based upon it.
We are acutely aware of the challenges posed by delays in the testing from lighthouse labs; that's been highlighted again today in the questions from Andrew R.T. Davies highlighting the delay of 2,000 results from lighthouse labs to flow into our system, and that's an important factor. In the overall lighthouse labs testing programme, those 2,000 tests aren't a significant amount but, actually, in terms of the overall numbers for Wales they could make a material difference about our understanding of disease prevalence in communities across Wales. So, I do recognise that that is a real challenge for us and, as I say, it's something we're looking to work constructively with different officials and, indeed, different Ministers and I'll continue to have those discussions not just with the UK Secretary of State for health, but also ministerial colleagues in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
We were, at the point that I gave evidence to the committee, expecting to have the lighthouse lab in Newport open over the summer; that's now delayed and expected to open in October. That should help us in improving the volume of tests available, but there's also something about the robustness and access to the largest population base in Wales. So, that should be a positive step forward for us. But Welsh lab capacity is already being used for rapid deployment of outbreaks and incidents, and for NHS Wales. We continue to work urgently with Public Health Wales and our NHS to build on the work that is already taking place to supplement capacity from lighthouse labs with those that are operated by Public Health Wales.
Again, I was able to run through some of this with the committee this morning, with the update, for example, on the increased testing availability we'll have in north Wales, where this week we expect to increase the testing capacity by some 40 per cent. That is largely because of our deployment of Public Health Wales lab tests. We'll utilise and prioritise Welsh lab capacity as we see pressure and demand rising across the UK and, of course, to deal with hotspots here in Wales. I recognise that turnaround times are critically important to the effective functioning of our test, trace, protect system. And test, trace, protect is a successful Welsh innovation and delivery, designed and delivered between health and local government in partnership, across all the different geographies and politics of local government, working with their local and national health service. I recently announced additional funding of £32 million to increase capacity to process tests at Public Health Wales laboratories. That includes six new hot labs that are due to open in the month of November, and extending regional labs to operate on a 24-hour basis should take place before the end of October. And in the most recent week that we've been able to publish figures for, 94 per cent of new cases were successfully traced by our test, trace, protect service, and 86 per cent of their contacts.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd dros dro. A gaf fi ddechrau yn gyntaf drwy ddiolch i'r pwyllgor am eu hamser yn ystyried y pwnc pwysig hwn, a’r hyn sy'n adroddiad interim? Mae'r craffu’n parhau; cefais y pleser o dreulio mwy na dwy awr yng nghwmni’r pwyllgor heddiw yn ateb cwestiynau am y gwaith parhaus a wnawn ar sut rydym yn cadw Cymru’n ddiogel, ac ymateb ein system iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Hoffwn gofnodi fy niolch i'r staff ar draws ein sector iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, nid yn unig am eu gwaith caled anhygoel a'u hymroddiad i ofalu am bobl sydd â COVID-19 a'u tosturi a'u gwytnwch anhygoel—maent yn glod i bob un ohonom—ond hefyd y gwaith y maent wedi'i wneud gydag eraill wrth fynd i'r afael ag anghenion iechyd a gofal brys i ddiogelu'r rhai mwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymuned.
Rwy'n cefnogi ac yn derbyn, neu'n derbyn mewn egwyddor, y rhan fwyaf o argymhellion y pwyllgor. Mae cynllun diogelu’r gaeaf bellach wedi'i gyhoeddi ac mae hwn yn gynllun trosfwaol sy'n nodi ein disgwyliadau ar gyfer iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, ac yn llywio ymgysylltiad â phartneriaid a rhanddeiliaid ehangach. Bydd y cynllun uchelgeisiol hwn yn ceisio ymgorffori’r hyn rydym wedi’i ddysgu o'r adroddiad i gryfhau ein dull o weithredu dros y gaeaf sydd i ddod.
Ar brofi, mae'r strategaeth brofi a gyhoeddwyd ar 15 Gorffennaf yn amlinellu ein cynllun ar gyfer profi staff iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, ac yn ddiweddar rwyf wedi darparu datganiad ysgrifenedig ar y blaenoriaethau ar gyfer profi ar ddechrau'r wythnos hon. Mae ein strategaeth yn seiliedig ar y dystiolaeth ddiweddaraf. Fel erioed, gallai newid gan y gallai'r sylfaen dystiolaeth newid yn ystod y pandemig. A byddwn yn dweud yn ofalus wrth y pwyllgor y byddant yn clywed, ac y byddant yn parhau i glywed, galwadau anecdotaidd am brofion asymptomatig. Ni all y pwyllgor fynnu dull eang sy'n seiliedig ar dystiolaeth a mynnu ymlyniad at y dystiolaeth wyddonol a meddygol i helpu i gadw Cymru'n ddiogel, a dewis wedyn pryd i ddewis a dethol, a chwyddo galwadau a wneir i wrthdroi'r dystiolaeth rydym yn dibynnu arni i helpu i gadw Cymru’n ddiogel.
Rydym wedi nodi'n agored y sylfaen dystiolaeth gan y grŵp cyngor technegol, ac mae'r pwyllgor wedi cael cyfle i glywed tystiolaeth gan gyd-gadeiryddion y grŵp cyngor technegol, gan gynnwys y prif gynghorydd gwyddonol ar iechyd yn ogystal â mynediad at y prif swyddog meddygol. Rydym yn parhau i gyhoeddi'r dystiolaeth honno'n agored ac i wneud dewisiadau yn seiliedig arni.
Rydym yn ymwybodol iawn o'r heriau a achosir gan oedi yn y profi gan labordai goleudy; amlygwyd hynny eto heddiw yn y cwestiynau gan Andrew R.T. Davies a dynnodd sylw at yr oedi cyn cael 2,000 o ganlyniadau yn ôl o labordai goleudy i lifo i mewn i'n system, ac mae hwnnw'n ffactor pwysig. Yn rhaglen brofi'r labordai goleudy yn gyffredinol, nid yw'r 2,000 o brofion hynny yn swm sylweddol, ond mewn gwirionedd, o ran y niferoedd cyffredinol ar gyfer Cymru, gallent wneud gwahaniaeth sylweddol i’n dealltwriaeth o ba mor gyffredin yw'r haint mewn cymunedau ledled Cymru. Felly, rwy'n cydnabod bod honno'n her wirioneddol i ni ac, fel y dywedaf, mae'n rhywbeth rydym yn bwriadu gweithio'n adeiladol arno gyda gwahanol swyddogion a gwahanol Weinidogion yn wir a byddaf yn parhau i gael y trafodaethau hynny nid yn unig gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol y DU dros iechyd, ond hefyd gyda Gweinidogion cyfatebol yn yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon.
Pan roddais dystiolaeth i'r pwyllgor, roeddem yn disgwyl i'r labordy goleudy yng Nghasnewydd agor dros yr haf; mae oedi mewn perthynas â hwnnw bellach a disgwylir iddo agor ym mis Hydref. Dylai hynny ein helpu i gynyddu nifer y profion sydd ar gael ond mae rhywbeth yma hefyd am drylwyredd a’r mynediad at y sylfaen boblogaeth fwyaf yng Nghymru. Felly, dylai hwnnw fod yn gam cadarnhaol ymlaen i ni. Ond mae capasiti labordai Cymru eisoes yn cael ei ddefnyddio ar gyfer profi pobl yn gyflym yn dilyn clystyrau o achosion a digwyddiadau, ac ar gyfer GIG Cymru. Rydym yn parhau i weithio ar frys gydag Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru a'n GIG i adeiladu ar y gwaith sydd eisoes yn digwydd i ychwanegu at gapasiti labordai goleudy â'r labordai sy'n cael eu gweithredu gan Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru.
Unwaith eto, llwyddais i sôn am rywfaint o hyn gyda’r pwyllgor y bore yma, gyda'r diweddariad, er enghraifft, am y cynnydd yn argaeledd profion a fydd gennym yng ngogledd Cymru lle rydym yn disgwyl cynyddu capasiti profi oddeutu 40 y cant yr wythnos hon. Mae hynny i raddau helaeth oherwydd ein defnydd o brofion labordai Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru. Byddwn yn defnyddio ac yn blaenoriaethu capasiti labordai Cymru wrth inni weld pwysau a galw yn cynyddu ledled y DU ac wrth gwrs, i ymdrin â mannau lle ceir llawer o achosion yma yng Nghymru. Rwy’n cydnabod bod amseroedd dychwelyd canlyniadau profion yn hollbwysig i weithrediad effeithiol ein system profi, olrhain a diogelu. Ac mae profi, olrhain a diogelu yn system ac yn ddarpariaeth arloesol a llwyddiannus yng Nghymru, wedi'i chynllunio a'i darparu gan iechyd a llywodraeth leol mewn partneriaeth, ar draws daearyddiaeth a gwleidyddiaeth wahanol llywodraeth leol, gan weithio gyda gwasanaeth iechyd lleol a gwladol. Cyhoeddais gyllid ychwanegol o £32 miliwn yn ddiweddar i gynyddu'r capasiti i brosesu profion yn labordai Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru. Mae hynny'n cynnwys chwe labordy gwib newydd sydd i fod i agor ym mis Tachwedd, ac ymestyn labordai rhanbarthol i weithredu ar sail 24 awr a ddylai ddigwydd cyn diwedd mis Hydref. Ac yn yr wythnos ddiweddaraf rydym wedi gallu cyhoeddi ffigurau ar ei chyfer, olrheiniwyd 94 y cant o achosion newydd yn llwyddiannus drwy ein gwasanaeth profi, olrhain a diogelu, yn ogystal ag 86 y cant o'u cysylltiadau.
I recognise the comments made by committee members about support for self-isolation. Our test, trace, protect service does contact people who are isolating. It's how they understand how successfully people are or aren't isolating. I've had feedback from my own constituents and others about the difference that call has made to them successfully continuing with self-isolation. But I recognise the issues raised by not just the King's Fund report, but also by SAGE and others about the concern over people not successfully self-isolating. So, it was welcome when Michael Gove, in a call with First Ministers across the UK, confirmed there should be new money available to match the policy offer that had already been announced in England—of a £500 additional payment on top of statutory sick pay for low-paid workers. We now expect the UK Treasury to honour that commitment, so the First Minister has been in a position to confirm that we will introduce that payment to make sure that people can successfully self-isolate.
Care home providers, as well as people living and working in care homes, have faced an unprecedented challenge this year, and my sympathies are with those who have faced months of separation from family and friends, and especially to those who have lost loved ones. We supported the sector through this exceptionally difficult period, and we'll continue to do so. We'll be publishing our care home action plan that the Deputy Minister has committed to. That will set out the actions we're taking to ensure that the care home sector is well supported ahead of the challenges of the winter period.
We have been challenged—we heard it again today—about the approach we took in discharging people from hospital to care homes during the initial phase of the pandemic. And if I can take this opportunity to draw the committee's attention to recent research undertaken by Public Health Wales in partnership with Swansea University. That research found no evidence that hospital discharges were in fact associated with a significant risk of a new outbreak in a care home. However, the size of a care home was found to be associated with this risk. Research investigating into how other factors, including policies around staff and visitors, might affect risk continues to be prioritised in support of our efforts to reduce or eliminate care home outbreaks.
Restricting visits to care homes has been exceptionally difficult and, in fact, heartbreaking, and we heard this again today in the committee. But it has been one of the necessary measures that we have had to take at various stages in the pandemic to reduce the risk of infection to care homes. We've worked collaboratively with the sector to produce guidance to support providers to reintroduce visits safely as lockdown restrictions were eased over the summer. That work continues, and I know that the group met again this week to consider how the guidance is working in practice, and, again, the understanding that there should be not be an entire blanket policy—there should always be an individual circumstance where the care needs of that individual could or should be met by visits.
Recent local restrictions mean that local authorities have again had to make some very difficult choices about care home visits, striking a balance between people's continued well-being and the risk presented by increased community transmission. And I again encourage our local authority partners to engage with Public Health Wales, working with their local incident management teams in reaching those decisions. I expect restrictions to be temporary, to be as least restrictive as is safe, and to be kept under review. A rapid response system is in place for local health boards to deploy mobile testing units to those care homes where there is a positive case, and a dedicated care home testing portal is available for ongoing testing of care home staff.
It is worth pointing out on PPE, which the chair spent time on in introducing, that since 9 March, NHS Wales Shared Services Partnership have issued 342.3 million items across our health and social care system, and 167 million items have been issued to social care—that's 48 per cent of the total of items. And we're still issuing around about 13 million items a week. The scale of activity is still significant, and since the very early days of the pandemic, we have provided that free of charge to care home providers. It is the legal responsibility of employers to provide PPE for their workforce. The NHS Wales Shared Services Partnership stepped in because otherwise we would have had an unacceptable risk of harm to staff and the people they care for, and I'm pleased to see that England have recently announced they will follow the lead that we have taken in making that provision of PPE freely available to the care home sector.
We've also been able to provide mutual aid to other UK countries, we have a healthy supply chain of future orders and we are in a much more robust position and we are stockpiling for the winter ahead and for future provision. In fact, I think our system stood up well to the extraordinary pressures and the very sharp tightening in the international market that we saw. That's both in ordering and delivering more PPE into the country, and, in fact, we've provided some assistance in terms of the conversations with England where they've had to reconstruct a central purchasing and procurement operation that was lost in the Lansley reforms. But more than that, we've also, as Dai Rees mentioned, seen Welsh businesses and manufacturers respond significantly to the challenge of creating more PPE. And in the future we'll need to have a different balance in what we procure from other countries and what we continue to provide from manufacturers here in Wales. There may be an additional cost per item to that, but it's the right thing to do to make sure that we have a more robust system in place.
Rwy'n cydnabod y sylwadau a wnaed gan aelodau'r pwyllgor am gefnogaeth i bobl sy'n hunanynysu. Mae ein gwasanaeth profi, olrhain a diogelu yn cysylltu â phobl sy'n ynysu. Dyma sut y maent yn deall i ba raddau y mae pobl yn llwyddo i ynysu. Rwyf wedi cael adborth gan fy etholwyr fy hun ac eraill am y gwahaniaeth y mae'r alwad honno iddynt wedi'i wneud o ran eu llwyddiant i barhau i hunanynysu. Ond rwy'n cydnabod y materion a godwyd nid yn unig yn adroddiad Cronfa'r Brenin ond hefyd gan y Grŵp Cynghori Gwyddonol ar Argyfyngau (SAGE) ac eraill am y pryder nad yw pobl yn hunanynysu'n llwyddiannus. Felly, roedd yn rhywbeth i'w groesawu pan gadarnhaodd Michael Gove, mewn galwad gyda'r Prif Weinidogion ledled y DU, y dylai fod arian newydd ar gael i gyfateb i'r cynnig polisi a gyhoeddwyd eisoes yn Lloegr—sef taliad ychwanegol o £500 ar ben tâl salwch statudol i weithwyr ar gyflogau isel. Rydym yn awr yn disgwyl i Drysorlys y DU anrhydeddu'r ymrwymiad hwnnw, felly mae Prif Weinidog Cymru wedi bod mewn sefyllfa i gadarnhau y byddwn yn cyflwyno'r taliad hwnnw i sicrhau y gall pobl hunanynysu'n llwyddiannus.
Mae darparwyr cartrefi gofal, yn ogystal â phobl sy'n byw ac yn gweithio mewn cartrefi gofal, wedi wynebu her na welwyd ei thebyg o'r blaen eleni, ac rwy'n cydymdeimlo â'r rheini sydd wedi wynebu misoedd o fod ar wahân oddi wrth deulu a ffrindiau, ac yn enwedig i'r rhai sydd wedi colli anwyliaid. Gwnaethom gefnogi'r sector drwy'r cyfnod eithriadol o anodd hwn, a byddwn yn parhau i wneud hynny. Byddwn yn cyhoeddi'r cynllun gweithredu ar gyfer cartrefi gofal y mae'r Dirprwy Weinidog wedi ymrwymo iddo. Bydd hwnnw'n nodi'r camau rydym yn eu cymryd i sicrhau bod y sector cartrefi gofal yn cael cefnogaeth dda cyn heriau'r gaeaf.
Rydym wedi cael ein herio—clywsom hyn eto heddiw—ynglŷn â'n dull o ryddhau pobl o'r ysbyty i gartrefi gofal yn ystod cyfnod cychwynnol y pandemig. Ac os caf fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn i dynnu sylw'r pwyllgor at waith ymchwil diweddar a wnaed gan Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru mewn partneriaeth â Phrifysgol Abertawe. Ni chanfu'r gwaith hwnnw unrhyw dystiolaeth fod rhyddhau cleifion o'r ysbyty yn gysylltiedig â risg sylweddol o achosion newydd mewn cartref gofal mewn gwirionedd. Fodd bynnag, canfuwyd bod maint cartrefi gofal yn gysylltiedig â risg o'r fath. Mae ymchwil i sut y gallai ffactorau eraill, gan gynnwys polisïau'n ymwneud â staff ac ymwelwyr, effeithio ar risg yn parhau i gael blaenoriaeth i gefnogi ein hymdrechion i leihau neu ddileu achosion mewn cartrefi gofal.
Mae cyfyngu ar ymweliadau â chartrefi gofal wedi bod yn eithriadol o anodd, ac yn dorcalonnus mewn gwirionedd, a chlywsom hyn eto heddiw yn y pwyllgor. Ond mae wedi bod yn un o'r mesurau angenrheidiol y bu'n rhaid inni eu gweithredu ar wahanol gamau yn y pandemig i leihau'r risg o haint i gartrefi gofal. Rydym wedi cydweithio â'r sector i gynhyrchu canllawiau i gynorthwyo darparwyr i ailgyflwyno ymweliadau'n ddiogel wrth i gyfyngiadau symud gael eu llacio dros yr haf. Mae'r gwaith hwnnw'n parhau, a gwn fod y grŵp wedi cyfarfod eto yr wythnos hon i ystyried sut y mae'r canllawiau'n gweithio'n ymarferol, ac unwaith eto, y ddealltwriaeth na ddylid mabwysiadu polisi cyffredinol—dylid gwneud penderfyniadau yn ôl amgylchiadau unigol bob amser lle gellid neu lle dylid diwallu anghenion gofal yr unigolyn hwnnw drwy ymweliadau.
Mae cyfyngiadau lleol diweddar yn golygu bod awdurdodau lleol unwaith eto wedi gorfod gwneud rhai penderfyniadau anodd iawn ynglŷn ag ymweliadau â chartrefi gofal, gan sicrhau cydbwysedd rhwng llesiant parhaus pobl a'r risg o gynyddu trosglwyddiad cymunedol. Ac unwaith eto, rwy'n annog ein partneriaid yn yr awdurdodau lleol i ymgysylltu ag Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru, gan weithio gyda'u timau rheoli digwyddiadau lleol i wneud y penderfyniadau hynny. Rwy'n disgwyl i gyfyngiadau fod yn rhai dros dro, i gyfyngu cyn lleied ag sy'n ddiogel, ac i gael eu hadolygu'n barhaus. Mae system ymateb cyflym ar waith i fyrddau iechyd lleol fynd ag unedau profi symudol i gartrefi gofal lle ceir achos positif, ac mae porth profi cartrefi gofal penodol ar gael i brofi staff cartrefi gofal yn barhaus.
Mewn perthynas â chyfarpar diogelu personol, mater y treuliodd y cadeirydd amser yn ei gyflwyno, mae'n werth nodi bod Partneriaeth Cydwasanaethau GIG Cymru wedi dosbarthu 342.3 miliwn o eitemau ar draws ein system iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol ers 9 Mawrth, ac mae 167 miliwn o eitemau wedi'u rhoi i ofal cymdeithasol—sef 48 y cant o gyfanswm yr eitemau. Ac rydym yn dal i ddosbarthu tua 13 miliwn o eitemau yr wythnos. Mae maint y gweithgarwch yn dal i fod yn sylweddol, ac ers dyddiau cynnar iawn y pandemig, rydym wedi darparu’r eitemau’n rhad ac am ddim i ddarparwyr cartrefi gofal. Cyfrifoldeb cyfreithiol cyflogwyr yw darparu cyfarpar diogelu personol ar gyfer eu gweithlu. Bu'n rhaid i Bartneriaeth Cydwasanaethau GIG Cymru gamu i mewn oherwydd fel arall byddai risg annerbyniol o niwed wedi bod i staff a'r bobl y maent yn gofalu amdanynt, ac rwy'n falch o weld bod Lloegr wedi cyhoeddi'n ddiweddar y byddant yn dilyn yr arweiniad rydym wedi'i roi drwy sicrhau bod cyfarpar diogelu personol ar gael yn rhad ac am ddim i'r sector cartrefi gofal.
Hefyd, rydym wedi gallu darparu cymorth cilyddol i wledydd eraill y DU, mae gennym gadwyn gyflenwi iach o archebion yn y dyfodol, rydym mewn sefyllfa lawer mwy cadarn ac rydym yn pentyrru stoc ar gyfer y gaeaf sydd i ddod ac ar gyfer darpariaeth yn y dyfodol. Mewn gwirionedd, rwy'n credu bod ein system wedi llwyddo'n dda i wrthsefyll y pwysau eithriadol arni a'r tynhau sydyn iawn a welsom yn y farchnad ryngwladol. Mae hynny'n wir o ran archebu a darparu mwy o gyfarpar diogelu personol i'r wlad, ac mewn gwirionedd, rydym wedi darparu rhywfaint o gymorth yn y sgyrsiau â Lloegr lle bu'n rhaid iddynt ailadeiladu gweithgarwch prynu a chaffael canolog a gollwyd yn niwygiadau Lansley. Ond yn fwy na hynny, fel y soniodd Dai Rees, rydym hefyd wedi gweld busnesau a gweithgynhyrchwyr Cymru yn ymateb yn sylweddol i'r her o greu mwy o gyfarpar diogelu personol. Ac yn y dyfodol, bydd angen inni gael cydbwysedd gwahanol yn yr hyn rydym yn ei gaffael o wledydd eraill a'r hyn rydym yn parhau i'w ddarparu gan wneuthurwyr yma yng Nghymru. Efallai y bydd cost ychwanegol fesul eitem i hynny, ond dyna'r peth iawn i'w wneud i sicrhau bod gennym system fwy cadarn ar waith.
Minister, you've now taken 11 minutes. We're not pressed—[Interruption.] Hold on. We're not pressed for time and this is an important debate, so if you take a minute or two to conclude, that's fine, but we do have to pay some attention anyway to the time limits.
Weinidog, rydych wedi cymryd 11 munud bellach. Nid ydym dan bwysau—[Torri ar draws.] Gan bwyll. Nid ydym dan bwysau o ran amser ac mae hon yn ddadl bwysig, felly os cymerwch funud neu ddwy i gloi, mae hynny'n iawn, ond mae'n rhaid inni roi rhywfaint o sylw i'r terfynau amser.
Thank you. I'm fortunately drawing to the conclusion of my remarks, and that is that we have learned from the initial six months. We've learned about working closely with local authorities and public health experts on all of the local restriction measures. We've met with local authority leaders regardless of geography and political leadership, and that's a real strength of the position that we've taken here in Wales, in contrast with some of the choices where leaders have found that out in other parts of the UK, especially in England.
But we all have a part to play to keep Wales safe: the Government, health, social care, public services, businesses and, crucially, us as individual members of our families and communities. The rules are in place for all of us, they apply to all of us, they're for the benefit of all of us, and if we all play our part, then together we can keep Wales safe. Thank you.
Diolch. Yn ffodus, rwy'n tynnu at ddiwedd fy sylwadau, sef yr hyn rydym wedi'i ddysgu o'r chwe mis cyntaf. Rydym wedi dysgu am weithio'n agos gydag awdurdodau lleol ac arbenigwyr iechyd y cyhoedd ar yr holl fesurau cyfyngu lleol. Rydym wedi cyfarfod ag arweinwyr awdurdodau lleol ni waeth ble maent yng Nghymru na beth fo'u lliwiau gwleidyddol, ac mae hynny'n gryfder gwirioneddol o ran y safbwynt rydym wedi'i gymryd yma yng Nghymru, yn wahanol i rai o'r dewisiadau lle mae arweinwyr wedi canfod hynny mewn rhannau eraill o'r DU, yn enwedig yn Lloegr.
Ond mae gan bob un ohonom ran i'w chwarae i gadw Cymru'n ddiogel: y Llywodraeth, iechyd, gofal cymdeithasol, gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, busnesau, ac yn hollbwysig, ni fel aelodau unigol o'n teuluoedd a'n cymunedau. Mae'r rheolau ar waith i bob un ohonom, maent yn berthnasol i bob un ohonom, maent er budd pob un ohonom, ac os yw pob un ohonom yn chwarae ein rhan, gyda'n gilydd gallwn gadw Cymru'n ddiogel. Diolch.
I call on Dai Lloyd to reply to the debate.
Galwaf ar Dai Lloyd i ymateb i'r ddadl.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm conscious of the time. Can I thank everybody who has contributed, first of all, to this debate? Excellent contributions all around, making a variety of points that come from our analysis in what was our first report as a health committee into COVID-19, fulfilling our scrutiny role as a committee and as committee members. There are other reports to follow.
Now, it's fair to say, obviously, that it's been a completely and totally devastating year. There was real fear on our hospital wards during those early days in February, March—real fear—and obviously we've heard about the challenges as well, outlined by colleagues, Andrew R.T. Davies, David Rees and Rhun ap Iorwerth: challenges around testing in those early days and we still have those challenges on testing, and similarly with PPE, although the situation appears far healthier as regards PPE.
We've taken a lot of evidence about social care and how as a society we view social care. And if this pandemic emergency had done nothing else, surely it must crystallise our view that we need to do something about how we organise and view social care generally. If we totally view it as having parity of esteem with the health service, should we not look to reorganise care along the same lines as we organise health? Mental health issues have been prominent as well in a lot of the evidence we took, and it's not surprising and it will be the basis of the next report from the health committee.
But in closing, can I pay a huge tribute, as I did at the start and as others have done, to the massive, heroic and epic response to this pandemic, not just in the health and social care sector, but also, as we've heard from Rhun, local authorities really came good during this—local authorities have shone, absolutely shone indeed. As well as thousands of volunteers in the background who have been doing everything from delivering food, medicines, sewing gowns, sewing masks, and also to the thousands of unpaid carers who really have felt the strain of the last six months. It's been a horrific time for many, and some who have recovered are debilitated by long COVID now, as we speak—chronic, debilitating and still suffering. Rehabilitation services are going to be key as time goes on, and that'll be the basis of another further report from this health committee. My thanks also go to clerks and researchers and legal support, and everyone that makes this health committee function so very well indeed. It's an excellent report, as I've heard many say, and a lot of that is due to excellent research and excellent clerking response.
So, in closing we say: stand firm and do the basics in terms of social distancing, in terms of hand washing, in terms of wearing a mask and in terms of decreasing social contacts—that's what we need to carry on doing—and support the motion. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n ymwybodol o'r amser. A gaf fi ddiolch i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl hon yn gyntaf oll? Cyfraniadau rhagorol gan bawb, yn gwneud amrywiaeth o bwyntiau sy'n deillio o'n dadansoddiad yn ein hadroddiad cyntaf ar COVID-19 fel pwyllgor iechyd, gan gyflawni ein rôl graffu fel pwyllgor ac fel aelodau o'r pwyllgor. Mae adroddiadau eraill i ddilyn.
Nawr, mae'n deg dweud, yn amlwg, ei bod wedi bod yn flwyddyn gwbl ddinistriol. Roedd ofn gwirioneddol ar ein wardiau ysbytai yn ystod y dyddiau cynnar hynny ym mis Chwefror, Mawrth—ofn gwirioneddol—ac mae'n amlwg ein bod wedi clywed am yr heriau hefyd, heriau a amlinellwyd gan ein cyd-Aelodau, Andrew R.T. Davies, David Rees a Rhun ap Iorwerth: heriau'n ymwneud â phrofi yn y dyddiau cynnar hynny ac mae'r heriau hynny'n ein hwynebu o hyd mewn perthynas â phrofi, ac yn yr un modd gyda chyfarpar diogelu personol, er bod y sefyllfa'n ymddangos yn llawer iachach gyda chyfarpar diogelu personol.
Rydym wedi cael llawer o dystiolaeth am ofal cymdeithasol a sut rydym ni fel cymdeithas yn gweld gofal cymdeithasol. Ac os nad yw argyfwng y pandemig hwn wedi gwneud unrhyw beth arall, rhaid ei fod wedi crisialu ein barn fod angen inni wneud rhywbeth ynglŷn â'r ffordd rydym yn trefnu ac yn gweld gofal cymdeithasol yn gyffredinol. Os ydym yn credu ei fod yn haeddu'r un parch â'r gwasanaeth iechyd, oni ddylem geisio ad-drefnu gofal yn yr un ffordd ag y trefnwn iechyd? Yn ogystal, mae problemau iechyd meddwl wedi bod yn amlwg mewn llawer o'r dystiolaeth a gawsom, ac nid yw'n syndod, a dyna fydd sail yr adroddiad nesaf gan y pwyllgor iechyd.
Ond wrth gloi, a gaf fi dalu teyrnged enfawr, fel y gwneuthum ar y dechrau ac fel y mae eraill wedi'i wneud, i'r ymateb enfawr, arwrol ac epig i'r pandemig hwn, nid yn unig yn y sector iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, ond hefyd, fel y clywsom gan Rhun, mae awdurdodau lleol wedi bod ar eu gorau yn ystod hyn—mae awdurdodau lleol wedi disgleirio yn wir. Yn ogystal â miloedd o wirfoddolwyr yn y cefndir sydd wedi bod yn gwneud popeth o ddarparu bwyd a meddyginiaethau, gwnïo gynau, gwnïo masgiau, a hefyd y miloedd o ofalwyr di-dâl sydd wedi teimlo straen y chwe mis diwethaf yn fawr. Bu'n gyfnod erchyll i lawer, ac mae rhai sydd wedi gwella wedi'u gwanychu gan COVID hirdymor yn awr, wrth inni siarad—cronig, gwanychol ac maent yn dal i ddioddef. Bydd gwasanaethau adsefydlu'n allweddol wrth i amser fynd yn ei flaen, a bydd hynny'n sail i adroddiad pellach gan y pwyllgor iechyd hwn. Hoffwn ddiolch hefyd i glercod ac ymchwilwyr a gweithwyr cymorth cyfreithiol, a phawb sy'n gwneud i'r pwyllgor iechyd hwn weithredu mor dda. Mae'n adroddiad rhagorol, fel rwyf wedi clywed llawer yn ei ddweud, ac mae llawer o'r diolch am hynny i waith ymchwil rhagorol a gwaith clercio rhagorol.
Felly, i gloi, dywedwn hyn: sefwch yn gadarn a gwnewch y pethau sylfaenol drwy gadw pellter cymdeithasol, golchi dwylo, gwisgo masg a chyfyngu ar eich cysylltiadau cymdeithasol—dyna sydd angen i ni barhau i'w wneud—a chefnogwch y cynnig. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch yn fawr, Dai. The proposal is to note the committee report. Does any Member object? The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Diolch yn fawr, Dai. Y cynnig yw nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Item 6 is the Member debate under Standing Order 11.21, and the subject is universal basic income. I call on Jack Sargeant to move the motion.
Eitem 6 yw'r ddadl Aelod o dan Reol Sefydlog 11.21, a'r testun yw incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol. Galwaf ar Jack Sargeant i gyflwyno'r cynnig.
Cynnig NDM7384 Jack Sargeant
Cefnogwyd gan Adam Price, Alun Davies, Bethan Sayed, Dai Lloyd, Dawn Bowden, Helen Mary Jones, Huw Irranca-Davies, Jenny Rathbone, John Griffiths, Leanne Wood, Mick Antoniw, Mike Hedges, Rhianon Passmore, Siân Gwenllian
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn nodi:
a) y niwed y mae tlodi'n ei wneud i gyfleoedd bywyd ac nad yw gwaith bellach yn llwybr gwarantedig allan o dlodi;
b) bod y pandemig wedi gorfodi mwy o bobl i mewn i dlodi gyda niferoedd cynyddol o breswylwyr yn gorfod troi at gymorth elusennol fel banciau bwyd;
c) yr oedd twf y DU, hyd yn oed cyn y pandemig, yn wael a'n bod yn wynebu'r her gynyddol o awtomeiddio, sy'n gosod niferoedd cynyddol o swyddi mewn perygl;
d) bod incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn rhoi mwy o reolaeth i bobl dros eu bywydau, yn lleddfu tlodi ac, yn ogystal, yn cael effaith gadarnhaol ar iechyd meddwl;
e) y byddai incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn creu swyddi ac yn annog pobl i fanteisio ar gyfleoedd hyfforddi;
f) bod incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn rhoi'r lle i bobl gymryd mwy o ran yn eu cymuned a chefnogi eu cymdogion.
2. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru:
a) i sefydlu treial incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yng Nghymru;
b) i lobïo Llywodraeth y DU am gyllid i sefydlu incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol ledled Cymru.
Motion NDM7384 Jack Sargeant
Supported by Adam Price, Alun Davies, Bethan Sayed, Dai Lloyd, Dawn Bowden, Helen Mary Jones, Huw Irranca-Davies, Jenny Rathbone, John Griffiths, Leanne Wood, Mick Antoniw, Mike Hedges, Rhianon Passmore, Siân Gwenllian
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Notes:
a) the damage poverty does to life chances and that work is no longer a guaranteed route out of poverty;
b) that the pandemic has forced more people into poverty with increasing numbers of residents having to turn to charitable support like food banks;
c) that, even before the pandemic, UK growth was poor and we face the growing challenge of automation, placing increasing numbers of jobs at risk;
d) that a universal basic income (UBI) gives people more control over their lives, would alleviate poverty and have an accompanying positive affect on mental health;
e) that a UBI would create jobs and encourage people to access training opportunities;
f) that a UBI allows people the space to become more involved in their community and support their neighbours.
2. Calls on the Welsh Government:
a) to establish a UBI trial in Wales;
b) to lobby the UK Government for funding to establish a Wales-wide UBI.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Thank you, acting Presiding Officer. I'm very grateful to the Senedd Business Committee and to those that supported this motion allowing our Senedd to be part of the growing conversation around a universal basic income. The universal basic income is not a new idea, but it is an idea that is starting to make its voice heard. As always, there is resistance to change and some will always insist that looking to improve people's lives just isn't possible. These voices have been raised before in the cause of resisting change, saying we can't afford to do better: when children stopped being sent down the mines, when the introduction of the welfare state and pensions were mooted and, of course, when our magnificent NHS was brought into being.
In making the case for a UBI trial in Wales as a first step to Wales adopting the policy, I thought I would share with you what sparked my own interest in the subject. It was initially a very basic question: how do we avoid the ills of poverty in a world that is so chaotic and changing? How do we create a platform of security that allows people to grow, to learn, study and to fulfil their potential in an age of increasing uncertainty? What COVID has shown us is that we can and we should intervene to ensure everyone can be an actor in a market economy. As always, the people in the forefront of my mind are the amazing residents of Alyn and Deeside. My community has seen economic calamity before. My generation grew up in the shadow of the huge job losses at Shotton steel, and it is still the single biggest redundancy in western Europe. This devastating event could be repeated again across a whole range of industries due to automation job losses. This time, the Government needs to be working for us and not against us.
Artificial intelligence is set up to take even more jobs, and we could even make it serve humankind and embrace it, or we can allow it to create a wave of job losses that are not replaced. Alyn and Deeside has been identified as the constituency with the most to lose. It is not just manufacturing, retail and transport where changes have happened; thousands of white-collar jobs in the legal profession, accounting and healthcare will soon be done by AI. There are other huge changes that we are already going through or that are hurtling towards us that mean we may need to intervene to ensure people have the stability of a genuine safety net and springboard.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd dros dro. Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i Bwyllgor Busnes y Senedd ac i'r rhai a gefnogodd y cynnig hwn gan ganiatáu i'n Senedd fod yn rhan o'r sgwrs gynyddol ynghylch incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol. Nid syniad newydd yw'r incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol, ond mae'n syniad sy'n dechrau codi ei lais. Fel bob amser, mae gwrthwynebiad i newid a bydd rhai bob amser yn mynnu nad yw ceisio gwella bywydau pobl yn bosibl. Codwyd y lleisiau hyn o'r blaen i wrthsefyll newid, gan ddweud na allwn fforddio gwneud yn well: pan roddwyd y gorau i anfon plant i lawr y pyllau glo, pan soniwyd am gyflwyno'r wladwriaeth les a phensiynau ac wrth gwrs, pan ddaeth ein Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol anhygoel i fodolaeth.
Wrth ddadlau'r achos dros dreial incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yng Nghymru fel cam cyntaf tuag at fabwysiadu'r polisi yng Nghymru, roeddwn yn meddwl y byddwn yn rhannu'r hyn a sbardunodd fy niddordeb fy hun yn y pwnc gyda chi. Roedd yn gwestiwn sylfaenol iawn i ddechrau: sut rydym yn osgoi problemau tlodi mewn byd mor gythryblus a newidiol? Sut y mae creu llwyfan o ddiogelwch sy'n caniatáu i bobl dyfu, dysgu, astudio a chyflawni eu potensial mewn oes o ansicrwydd cynyddol? Yr hyn y mae COVID wedi'i ddangos i ni yw y gallwn ac y dylem ymyrryd i sicrhau y gall pawb chwarae rhan mewn economi marchnad. Fel bob amser, y bobl sydd ar flaen fy meddwl yw trigolion gwych Alun a Glannau Dyfrdwy. Mae fy nghymuned wedi gweld trychineb economaidd o'r blaen. Magwyd fy nghenhedlaeth i yng nghysgod y colli swyddi enfawr a welwyd yng ngwaith dur Shotton, a dyma yw'r diswyddiad unigol mwyaf a welwyd yng ngorllewin Ewrop o hyd. Gallai'r digwyddiad dinistriol hwn ddigwydd eto ar draws ystod eang o ddiwydiannau oherwydd colli swyddi yn sgil awtomatiaeth. Y tro hwn, mae angen i'r Llywodraeth fod yn gweithio gyda ni ac nid yn ein herbyn.
Disgwylir y bydd deallusrwydd artiffisial yn cael gwared ar fwy fyth o swyddi, a gallem wneud iddo wasanaethu'r ddynoliaeth a'i groesawu, neu gallwn ganiatáu iddo arwain at golli swyddi niferus heb ddim i'w rhoi yn eu lle. Nodwyd mai Alun a Glannau Dyfrdwy yw'r etholaeth sydd â'r mwyaf i'w golli. Nid gweithgynhyrchu, manwerthu a thrafnidiaeth yw'r unig feysydd a welodd newidiadau; bydd miloedd o swyddi coler wen yn y proffesiwn cyfreithiol, cyfrifyddu a gofal iechyd yn cael eu gwneud gan ddeallusrwydd artiffisial cyn bo hir. Ceir newidiadau enfawr eraill rydym eisoes yn mynd drwyddynt neu sy'n rhuthro tuag atom, sy'n golygu efallai y bydd angen inni ymyrryd i sicrhau bod gan bobl sefydlogrwydd rhwyd ddiogelwch a sbardun go iawn.
Llywydd, the first factor is already with us, and it can be seen all around us: poverty. Poverty is becoming endemic—homelessness and food poverty being the most visible signs. Footballer Marcus Rashford has recently shone a light on this issue, using his own personal story to explain just how terrible it is to go to school hungry. The effects of this can and often do last a lifetime. Now, we often kid ourselves that poverty is an issue for other people, but, friends, let this fact sink in: one third of households are a month's paycheck away from homelessness. Now, in a world where people's lives are increasingly precarious, what answer do you think we would get if we stretched that figure to four months? Another important contributor to needing to look at a UBI is the increasingly insecure nature of work, and the flatlining of wage growth for all but a wealthy few. A recent Trades Union Congress report stated that much of the employment created in the UK in recent years has been low paid and insecure, as reflected in the increasing use of zero-hour contracts and the growth in gig economy jobs.
The final factor is global warming, and the very real risk that, if we don't change the way we think about growth, there will be nobody around to benefit from it. Unsustainable booms where we don't take into account the need to go carbon neutral will be catastrophic. Now, this change, whilst necessary, will not be pain free, and there will be losers as well as winners. So, how we do we support them through it? Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern really sums up my position: growth is pointless if people aren't thriving. Ardern said that Governments should instead focus on the general welfare of citizens and make investments in areas that unlock human potential. She pointed to New Zealand's new well-being budget, which seeks to expand mental health services, reduce child poverty and homelessness, fight climate change and expand opportunities.
'Economic growth accompanied by worsening social outcomes is not success'—
Ardern said—
'it is failure.'
So, what exactly am I asking for? After all, a trial seems quite vague. But, Members, really, it is quite simple. I want the Welsh Government to select a group of people and see if their outcomes are improved by a UBI. Such a group could be care leavers or the recently redundant in an industry particularly hit by COVID. We would then support this group while seeing if our trial matches the positive results of trials elsewhere. A trial in Canada demonstrated that young people are more likely to stay in training; a study in Finland demonstrated that people in receipt of a UBI are more likely to work. Now, this is in contrast to universal credit, which actively punishes work.
I understand many, particularly on the small-state Conservative wing of politics, will say we can't afford to support people in chaotic times. But I often wonder why these same voices do not pipe up when universal credit costs spiral out of control, when billions are given to outsourcing companies that deliver appalling services, or major infrastructure projects, like the HS2, see costs rocket. And I also know many on my own side of the political spectrum are also unconvinced, not because they don't want to support people, but because they are worried about the finite resources in a country that has already seen the Tories cut so much of what we all value. So, what I would say to them is: look at the list of problems I've discussed today—what pressure will the consequences of these changes place on public services?
Now, Llywydd, I am looking forward to hearing Members' contributions today, so I will leave you with this: if a market economy is to thrive, it needs all its citizens to be able to participate in it. It needs them to be able to absorb the coming shocks and be home owners, consumers, creators and entrepreneurs. If we are to give them the space to take responsibility and ensure that they can be this, then we are going to need a much better springboard—a much kinder springboard—and that springboard is a universal basic income. Diolch yn fawr.
Lywydd, mae'r ffactor cyntaf gyda ni eisoes, a gellir ei weld o'n cwmpas: tlodi. Mae tlodi'n prysur ddod yn endemig—digartrefedd a thlodi bwyd yw'r arwyddion mwyaf gweladwy. Mae Marcus Rashford, y pêl-droediwr, wedi taflu goleuni ar y mater hwn yn ddiweddar, gan ddefnyddio ei stori bersonol ei hun i egluro pa mor ofnadwy yw mynd i'r ysgol yn llwglyd. Gall effeithiau hyn bara am oes, a byddant yn gwneud hynny'n aml. Nawr, rydym yn aml yn twyllo ein hunain mai problem i bobl eraill yw tlodi, ond gyfeillion, ystyriwch y ffaith hon: mae traean o aelwydydd un cyflog mis i ffwrdd o fod yn ddigartref. Nawr, mewn byd lle mae bywydau pobl yn fwyfwy ansicr, pa ateb y credwch y byddem yn ei gael pe baem yn ymestyn y ffigur hwnnw i bedwar mis? Cyfrannwr pwysig arall i'r angen i edrych ar incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yw natur gynyddol ansicr gwaith, a'r gwastatáu yn nhwf cyflogau i bawb ond ychydig o bobl gyfoethog. Nododd adroddiad diweddar gan Gyngres yr Undebau Llafur fod llawer o'r gyflogaeth a grëwyd yn y DU yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf wedi bod yn waith am gyflog isel ac o natur ansicr, fel yr adlewyrchir yn y defnydd cynyddol o gontractau dim oriau a'r cynnydd mewn swyddi yn yr economi gìg.
Y ffactor olaf yw cynhesu byd-eang, a'r risg wirioneddol, os na fyddwn yn newid y ffordd rydym yn meddwl am dwf, na fydd neb o gwmpas i elwa ohono. Bydd ffyniant anghynaliadwy lle nad ydym yn ystyried yr angen i fod yn garbon niwtral yn drychinebus. Nawr, er bod angen y newid hwn, ni fydd yn ddi-boen, a bydd rhai ar eu colled yn ogystal â rhai ar eu hennill. Felly, sut rydym yn eu cefnogi drwy hyn? Mae'r Prif Weinidog Jacinda Ardern yn crynhoi fy safbwynt mewn gwirionedd: mae twf yn ddibwrpas os nad yw pobl yn ffynnu. Dywedodd Ardern y dylai Llywodraethau ganolbwyntio yn hytrach ar les cyffredinol dinasyddion a buddsoddi mewn meysydd sy'n datgloi'r potensial dynol. Cyfeiriodd at gyllideb llesiant newydd Seland Newydd, sy'n ceisio ehangu gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl, lleihau tlodi plant a digartrefedd, ymladd newid yn yr hinsawdd a gwella cyfleoedd.
Nid llwyddiant yw twf economaidd a ddaw â chanlyniadau cymdeithasol sy'n gwaethygu yn ei sgil—
meddai Ardern—
methiant ydyw.
Felly, beth yn union rwy'n gofyn amdano? Wedi'r cyfan, mae treial yn ymddangos yn eithaf niwlog. Ond Aelodau, mae'n eithaf syml mewn gwirionedd. Rwyf eisiau i Lywodraeth Cymru ddewis grŵp o bobl a gweld a yw eu canlyniadau'n gwella drwy gael incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol. Gallai grŵp o'r fath fod yn bobl sy'n gadael gofal neu'n bobl a ddiswyddwyd yn ddiweddar mewn diwydiant sydd wedi dioddef yn fawr yn sgil COVID. Byddem yn cefnogi'r grŵp hwn wedyn tra'n gweld a yw ein treial yn ailadrodd canlyniadau cadarnhaol treialon mewn mannau eraill. Dangosodd treial yng Nghanada fod pobl ifanc yn fwy tebygol o aros mewn hyfforddiant; dangosodd astudiaeth yn y Ffindir fod pobl sy'n cael incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn fwy tebygol o weithio. Nawr, mae hyn yn wahanol i gredyd cynhwysol, sy'n mynd ati'n weithredol i gosbi gwaith.
Rwy'n deall y bydd llawer, yn enwedig ar yr asgell Geidwadol, 'gwladwriaeth fach' mewn gwleidyddiaeth, yn dweud na allwn fforddio cefnogi pobl mewn cyfnod cythryblus. Ond rwy'n aml yn meddwl tybed pam nad yw'r lleisiau hyn yn codi pan fydd costau credyd cynhwysol yn cynyddu allan o reolaeth, pan roddir biliynau i gwmnïau allanol sy'n darparu gwasanaethau gwarthus, neu pan welwn gostau prosiectau seilwaith mawr, fel HS2, yn mynd drwy'r to. Ac rwy'n gwybod hefyd nad yw llawer ar fy ochr i o'r sbectrwm gwleidyddol wedi'u hargyhoeddi, nid oherwydd nad ydynt eisiau cefnogi pobl, ond am eu bod yn poeni am yr adnoddau cyfyngedig mewn gwlad sydd eisoes wedi gweld y Torïaid yn torri cymaint o'r hyn rydym i gyd yn ei ystyried yn werthfawr. Felly, yr hyn y byddwn yn ei ddweud wrthynt yw: edrychwch ar y rhestr o broblemau rwyf wedi'u trafod heddiw—pa bwysau fydd canlyniadau'r newidiadau hyn yn ei roi ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus?
Nawr, Lywydd, rwy'n edrych ymlaen at glywed cyfraniadau'r Aelodau heddiw, felly rwyf am orffen gyda hyn: os yw economi marchnad yn mynd i ffynnu, mae angen i'w holl ddinasyddion allu cymryd rhan ynddi. Mae angen iddynt allu amsugno'r ergydion sydd i ddod a bod yn berchnogion cartrefi, yn ddefnyddwyr, yn grewyr ac yn entrepreneuriaid. Os ydym am roi lle iddynt gymryd cyfrifoldeb a sicrhau y gallant wneud hyn, bydd angen sbardun llawer gwell arnom—sbardun llawer mwy caredig—a'r sbardun hwnnw yw incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol. Diolch yn fawr.
Thank you. I have eight speakers who hope to be called, or eight Members who hope to speak, so five minutes at an absolute maximum, please, and I'd really appreciate it if some Members could be more succinct than that. Mark Isherwood.
Diolch. Mae gennyf wyth siaradwr sy'n gobeithio cael eu galw, neu wyth Aelod sy'n gobeithio siarad, felly pum munud ar y mwyaf, os gwelwch yn dda, a byddwn yn gwerthfawrogi'n fawr pe gallai rhai Aelodau fod yn fwy cryno na hynny. Mark Isherwood.
Diolch. According to Welsh Government statistics, 721,000 or 23 per cent of all individuals—children, working-age adults and pensioners—are living in relative income poverty in Wales, higher than any other UK nation. According to the UN special rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights, Wales faces the highest relative poverty rate in the UK, and 25 per cent of jobs in Wales pay below minimum wage.
Universal basic income, or UBI, has gained significant recent interest. However, as the Bevan Foundation state:
'As with many schemes that affect people's income, the design and value of the proposals really matter.'
They found that although a UBI would help to reach people currently outside the benefits system and could reduce stigma, people have significant differences in needs. These, they said, are unlikely to be met by even a high rate of UBI, and they said:
'Most studies show UBI has only limited effects overall on people's engagement with the labour market.... In particular, women with children and older people have been found to slightly reduce their participation in employment with UBI.'
They also ask whether a high rate of UBI would be so expensive that it is difficult to invest in other essential services, such as the construction of new social housing and the provision of more low-cost public transport.
The Centre for Social Justice's report, 'Universal Basic Income: An Effective Policy for Poverty Reduction?', also argued that UBI is unaffordable, putting at risk the provision of important services in healthcare and education, adding that it:
'Doesn't meet the needs of low-income households facing complex problems such as drug addiction, dangerous debt, and family breakdown; provides a major disincentive to find work...and is no more generous to the most disadvantaged households than the provisions under universal credit.'
As the UK Secretary of State for business, Alok Sharma, said:
'What's very important in the way that we provide support, particularly more widely in the welfare system, is that we target it at people, and universal basic income is an issue that's being tested in other countries and hasn't been taken forward.'
Last year, the Finnish Government did not proceed with UBI after a two-year trial, concluding that it failed to help unemployed people to rejoin the workforce. Although a form of UBI is in place in Alaska, the level of payment is not sufficient to replace people's income and therefore acts only as a supplement. Although Spain has recently introduced a minimum income scheme, it appears to have more in common with the UK's social security system than the version of UBI being debated.
Reducing the amount of people living in poverty in Wales cannot be solved by one action. The Bevan Foundation calls for the development of an anti-poverty strategy that clearly sets the steps that the Welsh Government intends to take to reduce the number of people living in poverty in Wales. As Oxfam Cymru states, it's not the case that anti-poverty strategies don't work; it's about how those strategies are targeted.
The Bevan Foundation has recently called for the Welsh Government to encourage local authorities to establish a single point of access for school meals, the pupil development grant and the council tax reduction scheme, stating that this would make it easier for families in poverty to access them. Where possible, they say, this support should be provided on a passported basis. As National Energy Action Cymru states, the Welsh Government should designate fuel poverty as an infrastructure priority.
Prevention is vital if people and organisations in Wales are going to address the major challenges we face, taking practical action to stop problems arising in the first place. Sticking plasters are just not enough; we need to find the underlying causes and finally do something to address them. If people keep falling into a river, would it not be better to build a fence upstream to stop them falling in, rather than endlessly rescuing them before they drown? As the Joseph Rowntree Foundation noted, universal basic income
'is not affordable, unpalatable to most of the public because of its "money for nothing" tag and perhaps most importantly—it increases poverty unless modified beyond recognition.'
That was a direct quote from them. Tackling poverty more widely will only succeed with citizen involvement at its core. We now need words to turn into real action, doing things with people rather than to them. At last, we need to fully embrace co-production, moving beyond rhetoric and consultation to doing things differently in practice, with service professionals, service users and their communities working side by side to provide solutions. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch. Yn ôl ystadegau Llywodraeth Cymru, mae 721,000 neu 23 y cant o'r holl unigolion—plant, oedolion o oedran gweithio a phensiynwyr—yn byw mewn tlodi incwm cymharol yng Nghymru, sy'n uwch nag unrhyw wlad arall yn y DU. Yn ôl rapporteur arbennig y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar dlodi eithafol a hawliau dynol, Cymru sydd â'r gyfradd tlodi cymharol uchaf yn y DU, ac mae 25 y cant o swyddi yng Nghymru yn talu llai na'r isafswm cyflog.
Mae incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol wedi ennyn diddordeb sylweddol yn ddiweddar. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywed Sefydliad Bevan:
Fel gyda llawer o gynlluniau sy'n effeithio ar incwm pobl, mae cynllun a gwerth yr argymhellion yn wirioneddol bwysig.
Er y byddai incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn helpu i gyrraedd pobl sydd y tu allan i'r system fudd-daliadau ar hyn o bryd, ac y gallai leihau stigma, daethant i'r casgliad fod anghenion pobl yn gwahaniaethu'n fawr. Roeddent yn dweud nad yw'r rhain yn debygol o gael eu bodloni gan gyfradd uchel hyd yn oed o incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol, ac roeddent yn dweud:
Mae'r rhan fwyaf o astudiaethau'n dangos mai effaith gyfyngedig ar y cyfan y mae incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn ei chael ar ymgysylltiad pobl â'r farchnad lafur... Yn fwyaf arbennig, canfuwyd bod menywod â phlant a phobl hŷn sy'n derbyn incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn lleihau rhywfaint ar eu cyfranogiad mewn cyflogaeth.
Maent hefyd yn gofyn a fyddai cyfradd uchel o incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol mor ddrud fel y byddai'n anodd buddsoddi mewn gwasanaethau hanfodol eraill, megis adeiladu tai cymdeithasol newydd a darparu mwy o drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus cost isel.
Dadleuodd adroddiad y Ganolfan Cyfiawnder Cymdeithasol, 'Universal Basic Income: An Effective Policy for Poverty Reduction?', hefyd nad yw incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn fforddiadwy, gan beryglu'r gallu i ddarparu gwasanaethau pwysig mewn gofal iechyd ac addysg, gan ychwanegu:
Nid yw'n diwallu anghenion aelwydydd incwm isel sy'n wynebu problemau cymhleth fel dibyniaeth ar gyffuriau, dyledion peryglus, a chwalfa deuluol; mae'n ddatgymhelliad mawr i ddod o hyd i waith...ac nid yw'n fwy hael i'r aelwydydd mwyaf difreintiedig na darpariaethau'r credyd cynhwysol.
Fel y dywedodd Ysgrifennydd Gwladol y DU dros fusnes, Alok Sharma:
Yr hyn sy'n bwysig iawn yn y ffordd rydym yn darparu cymorth, yn enwedig yn fwy cyffredinol yn y system les, yw ein bod yn ei dargedu at bobl, ac mae incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn cael ei brofi mewn gwledydd eraill ac nid yw wedi cael ei ddatblygu.
Y llynedd, ni wnaeth Llywodraeth y Ffindir fwrw ymlaen ag incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol ar ôl treial dwy flynedd, gan ddod i'r casgliad ei fod wedi methu helpu pobl ddi-waith i ailymuno â'r gweithlu. Er bod math o incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol ar waith yn Alaska, nid yw lefel y taliad yn ddigonol i gymryd lle incwm pobl ac felly nid yw ond yn gweithredu fel atodiad. Er bod Sbaen wedi cyflwyno cynllun isafswm incwm yn ddiweddar, mae'n ymddangos bod ganddo fwy'n gyffredin â system nawdd cymdeithasol y DU na'r fersiwn o incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol sydd dan sylw.
Ni ellir lleihau nifer y bobl sy'n byw mewn tlodi yng Nghymru gydag un weithred. Mae Sefydliad Bevan yn galw am ddatblygu strategaeth gwrthdlodi sy'n nodi'r camau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwriadu eu cymryd i leihau nifer y bobl sy'n byw mewn tlodi yng Nghymru. Fel y dywed Oxfam Cymru, nid yw'n wir nad yw strategaethau gwrthdlodi yn gweithio; mae'n ymwneud â sut y caiff y strategaethau hynny eu targedu.
Yn ddiweddar, mae Sefydliad Bevan wedi galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i annog awdurdodau lleol i sefydlu un pwynt mynediad ar gyfer prydau ysgol, y grant datblygu disgyblion a chynllun gostyngiadau'r dreth gyngor, gan ddweud y byddai hyn yn ei gwneud yn haws i deuluoedd mewn tlodi gael mynediad atynt. Lle bo modd, dywedant, dylid darparu'r cymorth hwn ar sail pasbort. Fel y dywed National Energy Action Cymru, dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ddynodi tlodi tanwydd yn flaenoriaeth seilwaith.
Mae atal yn hanfodol os yw pobl a sefydliadau yng Nghymru am fynd i'r afael â'r heriau mawr a wynebwn, a rhoi camau ymarferol ar waith i atal problemau rhag codi yn y lle cyntaf. Nid yw plastr yn ddigon; mae angen inni ddod o hyd i'r achosion sylfaenol a gwneud rhywbeth i fynd i'r afael â hwy. Os yw pobl yn disgyn i mewn i afon o hyd, oni fyddai'n well codi ffens yn uwch i fyny i'w harbed rhag syrthio i mewn, yn hytrach na'u hachub dro ar ôl tro cyn iddynt foddi? Fel y nododd Sefydliad Joseph Rowntree, nid yw incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol
yn fforddiadwy, mae'n annymunol i'r rhan fwyaf o'r cyhoedd oherwydd ei dag "arian am ddim" ac efallai'n bwysicaf oll—mae'n cynyddu tlodi oni bai ei fod yn cael ei addasu'n rhywbeth hollol wahanol.
Dyfyniad uniongyrchol ganddynt hwy oedd hwnnw. Ni fydd camau i fynd i'r afael â thlodi'n ehangach ond yn llwyddo drwy sicrhau bod ymwneud dinasyddion yn ganolog iddynt. Rydym angen troi geiriau'n gamau gweithredu go iawn yn awr, gan wneud pethau gyda phobl yn hytrach nag iddynt. O'r diwedd, mae angen inni roi croeso llawn i gydgynhyrchu, gan symud y tu hwnt i rethreg ac ymgynghori i wneud pethau'n wahanol yn ymarferol, gyda gweithwyr proffesiynol gwasanaethau, defnyddwyr gwasanaethau a'u cymunedau yn gweithio ochr yn ochr i ddarparu atebion. Diolch yn fawr.
I'm pleased to support the motion and grateful to Jack Sargeant for tabling it and giving us the opportunity to support and for his powerful opening speech. And of course, as Jack said, Mark Isherwood's contribution to the debate has just demonstrated that there will always be people who will look to find new and innovative ideas impossible and undeliverable. I would submit we have to be more ambitious than that.
I've said in this Chamber before, and I'll keep saying it while it continues to be the case, it is a national disgrace that we live in a country where a third of our children are poor. The current benefits system is complex, it's punitive and it keeps families in poverty. It's also costly to administer and profoundly unfair. As the motion highlights, work, as things stand, is no longer a route out of poverty. Too many families in Wales with both parents working in zero-hours contract, gig economy jobs are still poor.
There can be no doubt that COVID-19 will hit our economy hard, but even pre-COVID our economy was changing. The challenges of, among other things, automation and artificial intelligence are likely to, over time, transform the world of work. There may not just be enough of what we traditionally regard as work to go around. There are many actions that we can and should take to address these challenges, and I wouldn't disagree with everything that Mark Isherwood said, but exploring a universal basic income has to be one of them.
The motion clearly outlines many of the benefits, and I would add to that list the capacity of a universal basic income to allow people to spend more time with their families, and particularly with children. I know too many families in the region I represent where both parents are working long hours in low-paid work. A universal basic income could allow them to reduce their hours, hugely improving their quality of life and the quality of life of their children.
I am comfortable in supporting the motion as it stands, but there is a 'but'—it will be very difficult to establish even a limited universal basic income trial in Wales without the devolution of the benefits system. We could perhaps trial with families on low incomes that are above the benefits threshold, and goodness knows there are too many of those in our nation, but there would certainly be no point at all in providing individuals and families with a universal basic income from Welsh funds only to have them lose their benefits from the UK Government.
And while I would certainly not oppose lobbying a UK Government to fund a Wales-wide universal basic income, I have to admit that, with the current UK Government in power, I am not holding my breath. Better, surely, to follow the careful, considered advice of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee and to seek the devolution of the administration of benefits to Wales. Then, we could really trial universal basic income. And if it works, it could transform people's lives. Diolch yn fawr.
Rwy'n falch o gefnogi'r cynnig ac yn ddiolchgar i Jack Sargeant am ei gyflwyno a rhoi cyfle i ni gefnogi ac am ei araith agoriadol rymus. Ac wrth gwrs, fel y dywedodd Jack, mae cyfraniad Mark Isherwood i'r ddadl newydd ddangos y bydd yna bobl bob amser yn ceisio awgrymu bod syniadau newydd ac arloesol yn amhosibl eu cyflwyno. Byddwn yn dweud bod angen inni fod yn fwy uchelgeisiol na hynny.
Rwyf wedi dweud yn y Siambr hon o'r blaen, a byddaf yn dal i'w ddweud tra bydd yn parhau i fod yn wir, mae'n warth cenedlaethol ein bod yn byw mewn gwlad lle mae traean o'n plant yn dlawd. Mae'r system fudd-daliadau bresennol yn gymhleth, mae'n gosbol ac mae'n cadw teuluoedd mewn tlodi. Mae hefyd yn gostus i'w gweinyddu ac yn gwbl annheg. Fel y mae'r cynnig hwn yn nodi, nid yw gwaith, fel y mae pethau ar hyn o bryd, yn llwybr allan o dlodi bellach. Mae gormod o deuluoedd yng Nghymru lle mae'r ddau riant yn gweithio dan gontract dim oriau mewn swyddi economi gìg yn dal i fod yn dlawd.
Nid oes amheuaeth na fydd COVID-19 yn taro ein heconomi'n galed, ond hyd yn oed cyn COVID roedd ein heconomi'n newid. Mae heriau awtomatiaeth a deallusrwydd artiffisial, ymhlith pethau eraill, yn debygol o drawsnewid y byd gwaith dros amser. Efallai nad oes gennym ddigon o'r hyn a ystyriwn yn draddodiadol yn waith i fynd o gwmpas. Mae llawer o gamau y gallwn ac y dylem eu cymryd i fynd i'r afael â'r heriau hyn, ac ni fyddwn yn anghytuno â phopeth a ddywedodd Mark Isherwood, ond mae'n rhaid i archwilio incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol fod yn un ohonynt.
Mae'r cynnig yn amlinellu llawer o'r manteision yn glir, a hoffwn ychwanegu at y rhestr honno drwy sôn am gapasiti incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol i ganiatáu i bobl dreulio mwy o amser gyda'u teuluoedd, ac yn enwedig gyda phlant. Rwy'n adnabod gormod o deuluoedd yn y rhanbarth rwy'n ei gynrychioli lle mae'r ddau riant yn gweithio oriau hir mewn gwaith cyflog isel. Gallai incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol ganiatáu iddynt leihau eu horiau, gwella ansawdd eu bywydau yn aruthrol yn ogystal ag ansawdd bywydau eu plant.
Rwy'n gyfforddus yn cefnogi'r cynnig fel ag y mae, ond mae 'ond'—bydd yn anodd iawn sefydlu hyd yn oed treial incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol cyfyngedig yng Nghymru heb ddatganoli'r system fudd-daliadau. Efallai y gallem dreialu gyda theuluoedd ar incwm isel sy'n uwch na'r trothwy budd-daliadau, ac rydym yn gwybod bod gormod o'r rheini yn ein gwlad, ond yn sicr ni fyddai diben o gwbl darparu incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol i unigolion a theuluoedd o gronfeydd Cymru os byddai hynny'n peri iddynt golli eu budd-daliadau gan Lywodraeth y DU.
Ac er na fyddwn yn gwrthwynebu lobïo Llywodraeth y DU i ariannu incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol drwy Gymru, gyda Llywodraeth bresennol y DU mewn grym, rhaid i mi gyfaddef nad wyf yn dal fy ngwynt. Onid gwell fyddai dilyn cyngor gofalus, ystyriol y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau a cheisio datganoli'r broses o weinyddu budd-daliadau i Gymru? Yna, gallem fynd ati o ddifrif i dreialu incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol. Ac os yw'n gweithio, gallai drawsnewid bywydau pobl. Diolch yn fawr.
Every now and then, an idea comes along, an imaginative and innovative idea, and I think we have a duty, particularly in this Senedd, to embrace those ideas and the opportunities that they can present to us. The idea of a basic income has been around a long time. Economists, philosophers and politicians have long debated how to abolish poverty. The 1945 Labour Government began this journey in earnest by establishing the welfare state, and it worked for many decades. It took the unemployed, it took those unable to work and those in low-paid work out of poverty. And it worked reasonably well in a society where there was near full employment, strong trade unionism and a public commitment to the common good.
Now, during the 1980s and subsequent decades, those three prerequisites, which underpin the welfare state, have been increasingly whittled away and undermined, which culminated in the disgraceful Tory Welfare Reform Act 2012. The attempt to create a new universal credit started off on the right track, with cross-party support, but alongside the bedroom tax, became discredited by a Tory Government fix with austerity. Since the days of Margaret Thatcher, political attitudes towards those on benefits have also become increasingly hostile. Consistent headlines about 'benefit cheats', 'welfare scroungers' and the latest Tory mantra, 'the deserving poor', have, I think, increasingly masked the poverty and inequality that has increasingly destabilised our society.
So, now is the time for new thinking and new ideas. The emergence of the idea of a universal basic income is timely and welcome. The underlying principle for a UBI is that all adults should be paid an amount of money sufficient to have a reasonable basic standard of living. Now, there is the nub. What is reasonable? What is basic? What is sufficient? Added to that are many other challenges. We have already had some universal benefits, such as free prescriptions and child benefits, until recent changes, which go to everyone and are paid for by everyone. Universal basic income would be the same. It is in some ways no different to the concept of a basic tax-free allowance, except that it goes further and becomes a non-means-tested payment to every adult. Now, there can, of course, be special top-ups for special needs and that is one of the concepts. But there are many variations. So, making it work, winning support is the real challenge. Will society accept it? Will those who work be prepared to accept this concept? How will it impact on wages and those in work? What obligations will it place on society to ensure that socially useful and proper work is available and that people take up that work? What are the responsibilities of the recipients? How do you enforce those responsibilities? And there are many other questions.
Now, if the idea of a UBI has the potential to eliminate poverty, we must consider it and discuss it and debate it and then come to a conclusion. Jack Sargeant has got the ball rolling with this individual Member's debate. It is an exciting debate. Let's continue this debate with an open mind, because we have much to gain and little to lose. Thank you, acting Llywydd.
Bob hyn a hyn, daw syniad, syniad dychmygus ac arloesol, a chredaf fod gennym ddyletswydd, yn enwedig yn y Senedd hon, i groesawu'r syniadau hynny a'r cyfleoedd y gallant eu cynnig i ni. Mae'r syniad o incwm sylfaenol wedi bod o gwmpas am amser hir. Bu economegwyr, athronwyr a gwleidyddion yn trafod ers tro byd sut i drechu tlodi. Cychwynnodd Llywodraeth Lafur 1945 ar y daith hon o ddifrif drwy sefydlu'r wladwriaeth les, ac fe weithiodd am ddegawdau lawer. Cododd y di-waith, y rheini nad oeddent yn gallu gweithio a'r rhai mewn gwaith ar gyflogau isel allan o dlodi. Ac roedd yn gweithio'n eithaf da mewn cymdeithas lle roedd cyflogaeth lawn bron iawn, undebaeth lafur gref ac ymrwymiad cyhoeddus i'r lles cyffredin.
Nawr, yn ystod y 1980au a'r degawdau dilynol, mae'r tri rhagofyniad hwnnw, sy'n sail i'r wladwriaeth les, wedi cael eu herydu a'u tanseilio fwyfwy gan arwain yn y pen draw at ddeddf warthus y Torïaid, Deddf Diwygio Lles 2012. Dechreuodd yr ymgais i greu credyd cynhwysol newydd ar y trywydd cywir, gyda chefnogaeth drawsbleidiol, ond ochr yn ochr â'r dreth ystafell wely, bwriwyd amheuaeth ar y syniad yn sgil obsesiwn y Llywodraeth Dorïaidd â chyni. Ers dyddiau Margaret Thatcher hefyd, mae agweddau gwleidyddol tuag at bobl ar fudd-daliadau wedi tyfu'n fwyfwy gelyniaethus. Credaf fod penawdau cyson am dwyllwyr budd-daliadau, lloffwyr taliadau lles, a mantra diweddaraf y Torïaid, y tlawd haeddiannol, wedi cuddio'r tlodi a'r anghydraddoldeb sydd wedi ansefydlogi ein cymdeithas fwyfwy.
Felly, mae'n bryd cael meddylfryd newydd a syniadau newydd. Mae ymddangosiad y syniad o incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn amserol ac yn rhywbeth i'w groesawu. Yr egwyddor sylfaenol ar gyfer incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yw y dylid talu swm o arian i bob oedolyn sy'n ddigonol i gael safon byw sylfaenol rhesymol. Nawr, dyna'r pwynt. Beth a olygir wrth rhesymol? Beth a olygir wrth sylfaenol? Beth sy'n ddigonol? Yn ychwanegol at hynny ceir llawer o heriau eraill. Rydym eisoes wedi cael rhai budd-daliadau cyffredinol, megis presgripsiynau am ddim a budd-daliadau plant, a oedd tan y newidiadau diweddar yn mynd i bawb ac mae pawb yn talu amdanynt. Byddai incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yr un fath. Nid yw'n wahanol mewn rhai ffyrdd i'r cysyniad o lwfans sylfaenol di-dreth, ar wahân i'r ffaith ei fod yn mynd gam ymhellach ac yn dod yn daliad heb brawf modd i bob oedolyn. Nawr, wrth gwrs, gall fod taliadau ychwanegol arbennig ar gyfer anghenion arbennig a dyna un o'r cysyniadau. Ond mae yna lawer o amrywiadau. Felly, gwneud iddo weithio ac ennill cefnogaeth yw'r her wirioneddol. A fydd cymdeithas yn ei dderbyn? A fydd y rhai sy'n gweithio yn barod i dderbyn y cysyniad hwn? Sut y bydd yn effeithio ar gyflogau a'r rheini sydd mewn gwaith? Pa rwymedigaethau y bydd yn eu rhoi ar gymdeithas i sicrhau bod gwaith cymdeithasol defnyddiol a phriodol ar gael a bod pobl yn cyflawni'r gwaith hwnnw? Beth yw cyfrifoldebau'r derbynwyr? Sut rydych yn gorfodi'r cyfrifoldebau hynny? Ac mae llawer o gwestiynau eraill.
Nawr, os oes gan y syniad o incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol botensial i ddileu tlodi, mae'n rhaid inni ei ystyried a'i drafod a dod i gasgliad yn ei gylch. Mae Jack Sargeant wedi dechrau'r broses gyda'r ddadl Aelod unigol hon. Mae'n ddadl gyffrous. Gadewch inni barhau â'r ddadl gyda meddwl agored, oherwydd mae gennym lawer i'w ennill a fawr ddim i'w golli. Diolch, Lywydd dros dro.
Having a universal basic income will, as with most innovative ideas, be likely to create both positive and negative outcomes. In the first instance, if we examine the benefits of such a payment, people would have the freedom to return to education, giving them a greater chance of better work opportunities. More would be able to stay at home to care for a relative. This has the potential to give considerable savings to the huge cost of social care. It could remove many thousands from the poverty trap engendered by more traditional forms of welfare programmes. People could access a simple, straightforward payment that could minimise bureaucracy. Again, a cost saving that would help pay for any additional funding costs associated with the basic income policy, because we all know that administering the current welfare system is hugely expensive and complicated. Young couples would have more freedom to start families and they would have a guaranteed income, possibly alleviating the low birth rates in some sectors of the UK population. A guaranteed income could help stabilise the economy during recession periods, thus mitigating the effect of economic recessions. However, as with everything, the right balance has to be struck.
If the universal basic payment is set too high, it may disincentivise people to enter the jobs market. Set too low, it will continue to keep a portion of the population in relative poverty. Again, if set too high, the demand for goods and services could trigger inflation, which, in the long run, might negate the increased standard of living for most basic income recipients. A reduced programme with smaller payments, on the other hand, won't make a real difference to poverty stricken families.
If we are to get general acceptance of the universal basic income, we have to prove the potential benefits to the many people out there who are totally opposed to what they feel are free handouts of any sort. Across the world, countries are either looking to experiment with UBI or are already doing so. These include some American states, Finland, Kenya, Canada and Taiwan. Monitoring the progress could give the Senedd the opportunity to benchmark the effect of a universal basic payment.
There are many academics, economists and even industrialists who now believe that if we are to create a fairer, more equal society, some form of universal basic income is not only desirable but inevitable. Automation has fundamentally changed the structure of the world's economy, with artificial intelligence taking us into another industrial revolution in the way we produce and market goods and services. The resultant effect on the need for both manual and office-based human intervention will drastically reduce the jobs market. I think we would all agree that this industrial revolution must not duplicate those of the past, with the terrible manifestation of the haves and have-nots. We must all accept that if we are to create a fair, equal society, a universal basic income is not only desirable but essential. However, we should be under no illusions: its instigation must be done with great care and caution.
Bydd cael incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol, fel gyda'r syniadau mwyaf arloesol, yn debygol o greu canlyniadau cadarnhaol a negyddol. Yn y lle cyntaf, os edrychwn ar fanteision taliad o'r fath, byddai pobl yn rhydd i ddychwelyd i addysg, gan roi mwy o obaith iddynt gael gwell cyfleoedd gwaith. Byddai mwy yn gallu aros gartref i ofalu am berthynas. Mae gan hyn botensial i greu arbedion sylweddol i'r gost enfawr sydd ynghlwm â gofal cymdeithasol. Gallai dynnu miloedd lawer o bobl o'r fagl tlodi a gaiff ei chreu gan fathau mwy traddodiadol o raglenni lles. Gallai pobl gael taliad syml, uniongyrchol a allai leihau biwrocratiaeth. Unwaith eto, arbediad cost a fyddai'n helpu i dalu am unrhyw gostau ariannu ychwanegol a fyddai'n gysylltiedig â'r polisi incwm sylfaenol, oherwydd gwyddom i gyd fod gweinyddu'r system les bresennol yn ddrud ofnadwy ac yn gymhleth iawn. Byddai gan gyplau ifanc fwy o ryddid i ddechrau teulu a byddai ganddynt incwm gwarantedig, gan wella'r cyfraddau geni isel mewn rhai sectorau o boblogaeth y DU o bosibl. Gallai incwm gwarantedig helpu i sefydlogi'r economi yn ystod cyfnodau o ddirwasgiad, gan liniaru effaith dirwasgiadau economaidd. Fodd bynnag, fel gyda phopeth, mae'n rhaid sicrhau'r cydbwysedd cywir.
Os yw'r taliad sylfaenol cyffredinol wedi'i osod yn rhy uchel, gall fod yn ddatgymhelliad i bobl ymuno â'r farchnad swyddi. Os caiff ei osod yn rhy isel, bydd yn parhau i gadw cyfran o'r boblogaeth mewn tlodi cymharol. Unwaith eto, os caiff ei osod yn rhy uchel, gallai'r galw am nwyddau a gwasanaethau sbarduno chwyddiant, a allai, yn y pen draw, negyddu'r safon byw uwch i'r rhan fwyaf o bobl a fyddai'n derbyn yr incwm sylfaenol. Ni fydd rhaglen lai gyda thaliadau llai, ar y llaw arall, yn gwneud gwahaniaeth go iawn i deuluoedd sy'n byw mewn tlodi.
Os ydym eisiau i'r incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol gael ei dderbyn yn gyffredinol, mae'n rhaid inni brofi'r manteision posibl i'r nifer fawr o bobl sy'n gwrthwynebu'n llwyr yr hyn y maent yn ei deimlo sy'n arian am ddim o unrhyw fath. Ym mhob rhan o'r byd, mae gwledydd naill ai'n awyddus i arbrofi gydag incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol neu eisoes yn ei gynnig. Mae'r rhain yn cynnwys rhai o daleithiau America, y Ffindir, Kenya, Canada a Thaiwan. Gallai monitro'r cynnydd roi cyfle i'r Senedd feincnodi effaith taliad sylfaenol cyffredinol.
Mae llawer o academyddion, economegwyr a diwydianwyr hyd yn oed bellach yn credu, os ydym am greu cymdeithas decach, fwy cyfartal, fod rhyw fath o incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol nid yn unig yn ddymunol ond yn anochel. Mae awtomatiaeth wedi newid strwythur economi'r byd yn sylfaenol, gyda deallusrwydd artiffisial yn ein harwain at chwyldro diwydiannol arall yn y ffordd rydym yn cynhyrchu ac yn marchnata nwyddau a gwasanaethau. Bydd yr effaith sy'n deillio o hynny ar yr angen am waith llaw ac ymyrraeth pobl mewn swyddfeydd yn lleihau'r farchnad swyddi'n sylweddol. Credaf y byddem i gyd yn cytuno na ddylai'r chwyldro diwydiannol hwn ddyblygu rhai'r gorffennol, a amlygai'r bwlch gwarthus rhwng y cyfoethog a'r tlawd. Os ydym am greu cymdeithas deg a chyfartal, rhaid i bawb ohonom dderbyn bod incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol nid yn unig yn ddymunol ond yn hanfodol. Fodd bynnag, ni ddylem dwyllo ein hunain: rhaid cyflawni'r broses o'i gymell gyda gofal mawr.
An excellent introduction by Jack, and a really interesting debate by people from all parties, and that's how it should be. It seems to me that the COVID pandemic, and the collective action that has been required to beat it, is what has propelled radical responses into the spotlight. Who would have thought that a Chancellor of the Exchequer, in one of the most right-wing libertarian Governments the UK has had in living memory, would agree to pay 80 per cent of all this country's wages in order to save people's jobs?
I've long supported the principle of a universal basic income. I was an early adopter of Wages for Housework, long before many Members, including Jack, were born. We need to remember that the original family allowance, which then became child benefit, was intended to recognise the important work of bringing up the next generation. Sadly, it's been allowed to wither on the vine and is a completely insufficient contribution by society to the cost of bringing up our children. But until recently, I didn't feel that now was the time to be pushing for a UBI, because I thought, in the middle of a pandemic, there were just far too many other immediate problems that Governments needed to deal with. And in addition to that, Welsh Government neither has the resources nor, indeed, the powers to make it happen. But I think the depth of the crisis we are now facing, that are coming together, make this something that we really, now, urgently need to look at, because we are not just facing a pandemic, we are also facing the real possibility of the UK severing its ties with our European neighbours after 40 years without achieving a workable trade deal. And in addition to that, we have the gathering climate crisis, which, if we do nothing about it, will simply get much, much worse very, very quickly.
So, I am convinced that this is what we now need: a universal basic income to protect our country from the level of economic and social disintegration that is far greater and more devastating than anything we saw in 1973, 1982, 1989 and 2008. Above all, we have to avoid the violent political upheavals that are often triggered by the failure to manage economic shockwaves. Goodness knows what would have happened in 2008 if Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling hadn't managed to prevent the complete collapse of all our banks.
So, before COVID, Wales was already suffering from very high levels of insecurity, as others have already said. We know that one in eight people have insecure employment, and Wales has one of the highest levels of zero-hours contracts, which is probably the most insecure way in which anybody is forced to try and juggle home and work responsibilities. But underpinning that disgraceful statistic is the fact that one third of children in this country live in households that struggle to put sufficient food on the table without skimping on other essentials like heating and school trips, and this in the sixth richest economy in the world.
We also have this punitive and wasteful benefits system, designed to punish people for being unable to find a job, even if none exists. As Mick has already pointed out, universal benefit could have been, if properly funded and implemented differently, the reliable safety net that any civilised society needs when people get into difficulties, but it wasn't, and it isn't. It's just increased the misery and impoverishment of the most vulnerable. You can read on social media some of the appalling things that happen to people as soon as they have any change in their universal benefit. Simply forcing people to wait five weeks for any money on universal benefit is just a calling card for loan sharks and spiralling debt. Universal benefit is costing—
Cyflwyniad rhagorol gan Jack, a dadl ddiddorol iawn gan bobl o bob plaid, a dyna sut y dylai fod. Mae'n ymddangos i mi mai'r pandemig COVID, a'r cydweithredu sy'n rhaid ei gael i'w drechu, yw'r hyn sydd wedi dod ag ymatebion radical o dan y chwyddwydr. Pwy fyddai wedi meddwl y byddai Canghellor y Trysorlys, yn un o'r Llywodraethau rhyddewyllysol mwyaf asgell dde y mae'r DU wedi'i chael ers cyn cof, yn cytuno i dalu 80 y cant o holl gyflogau'r wlad hon er mwyn achub swyddi pobl?
Rwyf wedi cefnogi'r egwyddor o incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol ers tro byd. Roeddwn yn un o gefnogwyr cynnar Wages for Housework, ymhell cyn i lawer o'r Aelodau, gan gynnwys Jack, gael eu geni. Mae angen inni gofio mai nod y lwfans teulu gwreiddiol, a ddaeth yn fudd-dal plant yn ddiweddarach, oedd cydnabod y gwaith pwysig o fagu'r genhedlaeth nesaf. Yn anffodus, mae wedi cael ei adael i ddihoeni ac mae'n gyfraniad cwbl annigonol gan gymdeithas at y gost o fagu ein plant. Ond tan yn ddiweddar, nid oeddwn yn teimlo mai nawr oedd yr amser i bwyso am incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol, oherwydd roeddwn yn credu, yng nghanol pandemig, fod llawer gormod o broblemau uniongyrchol eraill roedd angen i Lywodraethau fynd i'r afael â hwy. Ac yn ogystal â hynny, nid oes gan Lywodraeth Cymru adnoddau, na phwerau yn wir, i wneud iddo ddigwydd. Ond rwy'n credu bod dyfnder yr argyfwng a wynebwn yn awr, yr argyfyngau sy'n hel at ei gilydd, yn gwneud hyn yn rhywbeth y mae gwir angen inni edrych arno ar fyrder yn awr, oherwydd nid pandemig yn unig rydym yn ei wynebu, rydym hefyd yn wynebu'r posibilrwydd gwirioneddol y bydd y DU yn torri ei chysylltiadau â'n cymdogion Ewropeaidd ar ôl 40 mlynedd heb gael cytundeb masnach dichonadwy. Ac ar ben hynny, mae gennym argyfwng hinsawdd cynyddol, a fydd, os na wnawn unrhyw beth yn ei gylch, yn gwaethygu'n gyflym iawn.
Felly, rwy'n argyhoeddedig mai dyma sydd ei angen arnom yn awr: incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol i ddiogelu ein gwlad rhag y lefel o chwalfa economaidd a chymdeithasol sy'n llawer mwy ac yn fwy dinistriol nag unrhyw beth a welsom yn 1973, 1982, 1989 a 2008. Yn anad dim, mae'n rhaid inni osgoi'r newidiadau gwleidyddol treisgar sy'n aml yn cael eu sbarduno gan fethiant i reoli ysgytiadau economaidd. Dyn a ŵyr beth fyddai wedi digwydd yn 2008 pe na bai Gordon Brown ac Alistair Darling wedi llwyddo i atal ein holl fanciau rhag mynd i'r wal.
Felly, cyn COVID, roedd Cymru eisoes yn dioddef o lefelau uchel iawn o ansicrwydd, fel y mae eraill wedi'i ddweud eisoes. Gwyddom fod un o bob wyth o bobl mewn gwaith ansicr, ac mae gan Gymru un o'r lefelau uchaf o gontractau dim oriau, sef y ffordd fwyaf ansicr, mae'n debyg, i unrhyw un orfod ceisio jyglo cyfrifoldebau cartref a gwaith. Ond yn sail i'r ystadegyn gwarthus hwnnw mae'r ffaith bod traean o blant yn y wlad hon yn byw ar aelwydydd sy'n ei chael yn anodd rhoi digon o fwyd ar y bwrdd heb wneud arbedion ar hanfodion eraill fel gwres a theithiau ysgol, ac mae hyn yn digwydd yn y chweched economi gyfoethocaf yn y byd.
Hefyd, mae gennym system fudd-daliadau gosbol a gwastraffus, a gynlluniwyd i gosbi pobl am fethu dod o hyd i swydd, hyd yn oed os nad oes swyddi'n bodoli. Fel y mae Mick eisoes wedi'i ddweud, pe bai budd-daliadau cyffredinol wedi cael eu hariannu'n briodol a'u gweithredu mewn ffordd wahanol, gallent fod yn rhwyd ddiogelwch ddibynadwy y mae unrhyw gymdeithas wâr ei hangen pan fydd pobl yn mynd i drafferthion, ond ni ddigwyddodd hynny, ac nid yw hynny'n wir. Y cyfan a wnaethant yw cynyddu diflastod a thlodi'r rhai mwyaf agored i niwed. Ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol, gallwch ddarllen am rai o'r pethau gwarthus sy'n digwydd i bobl cyn gynted ag y bydd unrhyw newid yn digwydd i'w budd-daliadau cyffredinol. Mae gorfodi pobl i aros pum wythnos am unrhyw fudd-daliadau cyffredinol yn sicr o arwain at fenthycwyr arian didrwydded a dyled gynyddol. Mae budd-daliadau cyffredinol yn costio—
You will need to make this your concluding—. You'll conclude with this, please.
Bydd angen i chi ddod â'ch cyfraniad i ben—. Dewch â'r cyfraniad i ben, os gwelwch yn dda.
So, basically, I just want to say that we really do need to look to the future of how we manage all these changes, and the idea that there's not going to be enough work to go round is completely false, in my view. But we do need that underpinning to enable people to make the transition in this very, very radical set of changes that we are going to be suffering.
Felly, yn y bôn, rwyf eisiau dweud bod gwir angen inni edrych ar ddyfodol y ffordd rydym yn rheoli'r holl newidiadau hyn, ac mae'r syniad na fydd digon o waith i fynd o gwmpas yn gwbl anghywir, yn fy marn i. Ond mae angen y sail honno arnom i alluogi pobl i bontio yn y set radical iawn hon o newidiadau y byddwn yn eu dioddef.
Clearly, as we've heard in the debate, the driving force for the discussion around universal basic income is the massive wave of technological change that is unfolding in front of our very eyes. There is an economic debate as to the extent to which automation, AI and related technologies are going to create mass technological unemployment permanently. There are serious economists that believe that what we're talking about now is something fundamentally different to earlier stages of mechanisation, that, actually, the extent of automation is going to reach into areas of the service economy. We're not just talking about automation, robots on the manufacturing factory floor; we're talking about white-collar professional services, legal services, being automated effectively, and, therefore, us being left with a totally different economic system whereby it's only a minority that are left in jobs at all. Others would contend that, eventually, because human beings have an infinite array of wants, new jobs will be created that we can't even imagine now. But even those economists accept that we are going to go through, over the next 10, 15, 20 years, a massive wave of rapid structural change and that will almost inevitably create levels of economic insecurity for many, many people. So, whichever view you take, there is a strong argument for creating an universal basic income as a means by which we manage that change to a very, very different economic future.
And there's another related argument. Many people will have followed the debate around Thomas Piketty's work showing that the arrow, certainly under capitalism, is over the long run towards inequality. One of the reasons for that, of course, is because ownership of capital is in relatively few hands and if you couple that then with automation, you can see where we're ending up again. Unless we create a system for the redistribution of income that is much more effective than the one that we have at the moment, then the rising inequality that has been a feature of the developed west over the last however many decades—and, indeed, Piketty argues, over centuries—we're going to see that rise exponentially over the coming years.
One of the advantages of UBI, of course, is that, because it gives people options, because it gives workers options, it means that they can refuse what the late David Graeber called—and this is in quotes, Deputy Presiding Officer—'bullshit jobs', and they can refuse low-income jobs. So, it creates what economists call a new reservation wage, because people don't have to accept wages and jobs at any level, and it actually changes the economic centre of gravity in terms of economic power.
UBI, I think, would unleash a wave of creativity, because it would—remember the enterprise allowance scheme? It was one of the few things the Thatcher Government did that I'd actually support. What it meant is that if you were in a band, et cetera, or a struggling artist, then you had a base level of income, if you used that scheme, at least, which could allow you to do other more interesting things. So actually, in an entrepreneurial sense, this is an argument that would appeal to some on the right of the political spectrum—that actually creating a UBI allows people to take some risks with their life because they have the basic economic security upon which they can do so.
It also allows people, finally, to make other choices in terms of paid work versus spending time with their family, as Helen Mary said, but also paid work versus unpaid work, voluntary work, et cetera, and allowing society to gain from those benefits. I'm all in favour of exploring a trial. I think redundancies—unfortunately, we've seen those recently in Wales—that could be one area. Youth basic income is something that other countries have done, but Helen Mary's central point is absolutely true—if we're going to do this as a nation, then we have to devolve welfare powers. So, let's get cross-party support for that as well.
Yn amlwg, fel y clywsom yn y ddadl, y sbardun ar gyfer y drafodaeth ar incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yw'r don enfawr o newid technolegol sy'n datblygu o flaen ein llygaid. Mae yna ddadl economaidd ynglŷn ag i ba raddau y bydd awtomatiaeth, deallusrwydd artiffisial a thechnolegau cysylltiedig yn creu diweithdra technolegol torfol yn barhaol. Mae yna economegwyr difrifol sy'n credu bod yr hyn rydym yn sôn amdano'n awr yn rhywbeth sylfaenol wahanol i gamau cynharach o fecaneiddio, ac sy'n credu y bydd graddau'r awtomatiaeth, mewn gwirionedd, yn cyrraedd rhannau o'r economi gwasanaethau. Nid ydym yn sôn yn unig am awtomatiaeth, robotiaid ar lawr y ffatri weithgynhyrchu; rydym yn sôn am wasanaethau proffesiynol coler wen, gwasanaethau cyfreithiol, yn cael eu hawtomeiddio i bob pwrpas, gan arwain at system economaidd gwbl wahanol lle mai lleiafrif yn unig fydd â swyddi o gwbl. Byddai eraill yn dadlau, yn y pen draw, oherwydd bod gan fodau dynol amrywiaeth ddiderfyn o ddymuniadau, y bydd swyddi newydd yn cael eu creu na allwn ni hyd yn oed eu dychmygu yn awr. Ond mae hyd yn oed yr economegwyr hynny'n derbyn y byddwn, dros y 10, 15, 20 mlynedd nesaf, yn wynebu ton enfawr o newid strwythurol cyflym a bydd hynny bron yn anochel yn creu lefelau o ansicrwydd economaidd i nifer fawr o bobl. Felly, beth bynnag yw eich safbwynt, ceir dadl gref dros greu incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol fel ffordd o reoli'r newid hwnnw i ddyfodol economaidd gwahanol iawn.
A cheir dadl arall gysylltiedig. Bydd llawer o bobl wedi dilyn y ddadl ynghylch gwaith Thomas Piketty sy'n dangos bod y saeth, yn sicr o dan gyfalafiaeth, tuag at anghydraddoldeb yn y tymor hir. Un o'r rhesymau am hynny, wrth gwrs, yw oherwydd bod perchnogaeth ar gyfalaf yn nwylo nifer gymharol fach o bobl mewn gwirionedd ac os cysylltwch hynny wedyn ag awtomatiaeth, gallwch weld beth fydd ein sefyllfa yn y pen draw. Oni bai ein bod yn creu system ar gyfer ailddosbarthu incwm sy'n llawer mwy effeithiol na'r un sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd, byddwn yn gweld yr anghydraddoldeb cynyddol sydd wedi bod yn nodwedd o'r gorllewin datblygedig dros yr holl ddegawdau diwethaf—ac yn wir, mae Piketty yn dadlau, dros ganrifoedd—yn cynyddu'n gynt ac yn gynt dros y blynyddoedd i ddod.
Un o fanteision incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol, wrth gwrs, oherwydd ei fod yn rhoi dewisiadau i bobl, oherwydd ei fod yn rhoi dewisiadau i weithwyr, yw ei fod yn golygu y gallant wrthod yr hyn a alwodd y diweddar David Graeber—a dyfyniad yw hwn, Ddirprwy Lywydd—yn 'bullshit jobs', a gallant wrthod swyddi incwm isel. Felly, mae'n creu'r hyn y mae economegwyr yn ei alw'n daliad cadw newydd, oherwydd nid oes rhaid i bobl dderbyn cyflogau a swyddi ar unrhyw lefel, ac mae'n newid craidd disgyrchiant yr economi mewn gwirionedd o ran pŵer economaidd.
Credaf y byddai incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn rhyddhau ton o greadigrwydd, oherwydd byddai—a ydych chi'n cofio'r cynllun lwfans menter? Roedd yn un o'r ychydig bethau a wnaeth Llywodraeth Thatcher y byddwn yn ei gefnogi mewn gwirionedd. Yr hyn a olygai oedd, os oeddech mewn band, ac yn y blaen, neu'n artist sy'n ei chael yn anodd, roeddech yn cael lefel sylfaenol o incwm, pe baech yn defnyddio'r cynllun hwnnw o leiaf, a allai ganiatáu i chi wneud pethau eraill mwy diddorol. Felly, mewn ystyr entrepreneuraidd, mae hon yn ddadl a fyddai'n apelio at rai ar yr ochr dde i'r sbectrwm gwleidyddol—mae creu incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol mewn gwirionedd yn caniatáu i bobl gymryd rhai risgiau yn eu bywydau oherwydd bod ganddynt sicrwydd economaidd sylfaenol sy'n eu galluogi i wneud hynny.
Yn olaf, mae hefyd yn caniatáu i bobl wneud dewisiadau eraill o ran dewis rhwng gwaith cyflogedig neu dreulio amser gyda'u teuluoedd, fel y dywedodd Helen Mary, ond hefyd dewis rhwng gwaith cyflogedig a gwaith di-dâl, gwaith gwirfoddol, ac yn y blaen, a chaniatáu i gymdeithas elwa o'r buddion hynny. Rwyf o blaid archwilio treial. Credaf y gallai diswyddiadau—yn anffodus, rydym wedi gweld y rheini'n ddiweddar yng Nghymru—fod yn un maes. Mae incwm sylfaenol ieuenctid yn rhywbeth y mae gwledydd eraill wedi'i wneud, ond mae pwynt canolog Helen Mary yn hollol wir—os ydym am wneud hyn fel cenedl, mae'n rhaid inni ddatganoli pwerau lles. Felly, gadewch inni gael cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol i hynny hefyd.
Thank you. Dawn Bowden.
Diolch. Dawn Bowden.
Thank you, acting Deputy Presiding Officer, and can I also thank Jack Sargeant for tabling this really important motion, which I'm very happy to support? I'd like to start by setting some context for my contribution, hopefully without repeating what others have said, and then to explain why I believe this is an idea whose time is coming, and why it would benefit communities like those I represent in Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney.
So, first some context. In April 2018 I published a discussion piece for the Welsh Fabians about Wales being what I described as a well-being state, and in that piece I explored the suggestion that our traditional welfare state safety net could usefully evolve into a more holistic well-being state. The idea had emerged from a piece originally authorised by our now Counsel General, Jeremy Miles, who said, and I quote,
'Bevan was an architect of the welfare state. Tomorrow's task will be a Wellbeing State.'
But I needed to ask myself what exactly a Welsh well-being state would look like, and for me, at the core of such an approach must be to incorporate well-being in all our policies, much like we equality-proof policies and should, in my view, also poverty-proof policies. So, we should well-being-proof policies. And then I set out a range of ideas that might help build a well-being state, and that included a minimum income guarantee for a Welsh citizen equivalent to a real living wage, providing an uplift in circumstances for many within an associated cost-efficiency saving, and a top-up of welfare state payments with personal well-being payments, to be paid in short periods to offset stress and debilitating conditions such as mental health crises. It follows, therefore, that underpinning a well-being state should be a move from being a welfare recipient to being a well-being participant. This would acknowledge an obligation to be an active citizen in the community in which we share a common responsibility to enhance well-being.
So, what's the practical benefit of this idea for communities like Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney? Well, it could challenge and change some of the dreadful circumstances that have bedevilled some of our most deprived communities and that have been magnified during this current COVID crisis. As others have already mentioned, the likes of uncertain employment with zero-hours contracts, exploitative conditions and working practices and low wages and benefit dependency are scourges on too many of my constituents, and they deserve better. A universal basic income is a solution, and it's a sensible solution now, given what has happened as a result of this dreadful pandemic.
In crises, opportunities arise, and I believe that what was set out in 2018 and what is being developed in this current debate is a sensible and rational response to our current circumstances. I hope that our Welsh Government will be bold and responsive, and take on board the calls in this motion, because it's no longer good enough to keep doing what we do and expecting things to change. My constituents have waited too long for that, and we have to look at a different approach. Universal basic income could be a building block of post-COVID recovery, and it's something we should embrace. Thank you.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd dros dro, ac a gaf fi ddiolch hefyd i Jack Sargeant am gyflwyno'r cynnig gwirioneddol bwysig hwn rwy'n hapus iawn i'w gefnogi? Hoffwn ddechrau drwy roi rhywfaint o gyd-destun i fy nghyfraniad, gan obeithio peidio ag ailadrodd yr hyn y mae eraill wedi'i ddweud, ac egluro pam rwy'n credu bod hwn yn syniad y mae ei amser yn dod, a pham y byddai o fudd i gymunedau fel y rhai rwy'n eu cynrychioli ym Merthyr Tudful a Rhymni.
Felly, rhywfaint o gyd-destun yn gyntaf. Ym mis Ebrill 2018 cyhoeddais ddarn trafod i Fabians Cymru am Gymru'n bod yr hyn a ddisgrifiais fel gwladwriaeth lesiant, ac yn y darn hwnnw ymchwiliais i'r awgrym y gallai rhwyd ddiogelwch ein gwladwriaeth les draddodiadol esblygu'n wladwriaeth lesiant fwy cyfannol. Roedd y syniad wedi dod i'r amlwg o ddarn a awdurdodwyd yn wreiddiol gan ein Cwnsler Cyffredinol bellach, Jeremy Miles, a ddywedodd, ac rwy'n dyfynnu,
'Roedd Bevan yn un o benseiri'r wladwriaeth les. Yr orchwyl yfory fydd Gwladwriaeth Lesiant.'
Ond roedd angen i mi ofyn i mi fy hun sut beth yn union fyddai gwladwriaeth lesiant Gymreig, ac i mi, yn ganolog i ymagwedd o'r fath, rhaid cynnwys llesiant yn ein holl bolisïau, yn debyg iawn i'r ffordd rydym yn sicrhau bod ein polisïau'n bodloni'r prawf cydraddoldeb, a'r ffordd y dylem, yn fy marn i, sicrhau bod polisïau'n bodloni'r prawf tlodi. Felly hefyd, dylem sicrhau bod polisïau'n bodloni'r prawf llesiant. Ac yna nodais amryw o syniadau a allai helpu i adeiladu gwladwriaeth lesiant, ac roeddent yn cynnwys gwarant isafswm incwm i ddinesydd yng Nghymru sy'n cyfateb i gyflog byw go iawn, gan wella amgylchiadau nifer o bobl o fewn arbediad cost-effeithlonrwydd cysylltiedig, ac ychwanegu at daliadau gwladwriaeth les â thaliadau llesiant personol, i'w talu mewn cyfnodau byr i wrthbwyso straen a chyflyrau gwanychol megis argyfyngau iechyd meddwl. Mae'n dilyn, felly, y dylai symud o fod yn dderbynnydd lles i fod yn gyfranogwr mewn llesiant fod yn sail i wladwriaeth lesiant. Byddai hyn yn cydnabod rhwymedigaeth i fod yn ddinesydd gweithgar yn y gymuned lle rydym yn rhannu cyfrifoldeb cyffredin i wella llesiant.
Felly, beth yw mantais ymarferol y syniad hwn i gymunedau fel Merthyr Tudful a Rhymni? Wel, gallai herio a newid rhai o'r amgylchiadau ofnadwy sydd wedi plagio rhai o'n cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig ac sydd wedi'u dwysáu yn ystod yr argyfwng COVID presennol. Fel y mae eraill eisoes wedi sôn, mae pethau fel cyflogaeth ansicr gyda chontractau dim oriau, amodau ac arferion gwaith camfanteisiol a chyflogau isel a dibyniaeth ar fudd-daliadau yn falltod ar ormod o fy etholwyr, ac maent yn haeddu gwell. Mae incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn ateb, ac mae'n ateb synhwyrol yn awr, o ystyried yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd o ganlyniad i'r pandemig ofnadwy hwn.
Mewn argyfyngau, mae cyfleoedd yn codi, a chredaf fod yr hyn a nodwyd yn 2018 a'r hyn sy'n cael ei ddatblygu yn y ddadl bresennol hon yn ymateb synhwyrol a rhesymegol i'n hamgylchiadau presennol. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn feiddgar ac yn ymatebol, ac yn ystyried y galwadau yn y cynnig hwn, oherwydd nid yw bellach yn ddigon da i barhau i wneud yr hyn a wnawn a disgwyl i bethau newid. Mae fy etholwyr wedi aros yn rhy hir am hynny, a rhaid inni edrych ar ddull gwahanol o weithredu. Gallai incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol fod yn floc adeiladu yn yr adferiad ôl-COVID, ac mae'n rhywbeth y dylem ei groesawu. Diolch.
And the final speaker before the Minister is Mandy Jones.
A'r siaradwr olaf sydd gerbron y Gweinidog yw Mandy Jones.
I'd like to start by thanking Jack Sargeant for tabling this debate and the many Members of the Senedd who support the motion. I've heard some stuff about UBI, but I must admit that my brain usually switches off as soon as it's mentioned. It's always been locked away in the part of my head that says, 'Something for nothing? I don't think so.' So, in the interests of opening my own mind, I volunteered to participate in this debate and I've done some reading and some research.
I've worked all of my life, from my early teens. I've earned all of my own money, and I've raised four children largely with little help, financial or emotional, from both of their fathers. I cared for my elderly father when he was in his last years, too. I've done all sorts of jobs—menial jobs I was damn grateful for. I've done jobs for £1 an hour, and I was glad to have those. The only time I claimed any sort of benefit was when my spine collapsed. I needed that security blanket, and I was grateful for it. That said, if ever I fall on hard times again, if ever one of my sons is made redundant, if my daughter returns to Wales and can't find a job in our post-COVID world, I want a support network in place for them, for everyone, that is compassionate and realistic, and able to respond to the needs of the individual.
I do think the UK benefits system is a mess, administered by an entrenched tick-box civil service that just can't get it right. However, the fact that the bulk of the benefit is paid to people in work is beyond me. Why does the taxpayer effectively subsidise shareholders of large corporates that won't pay a decent wage to people for decent work? While this continues, pay growth will continue to stagnate, and I do think it's remained pretty flat since the financial crash. And yes, people will need the support of top-up benefits and food banks while this remains the case. It's a total disgrace.
I've read with interest reports of the trial of UBI in Finland in 2018-19, but the thing that concerns me is that the net result was that the unemployed became less stressed and a little happier. They did not during this period seek work or training opportunities. That would be a big problem. And surely, the aim is not for those who can work—and I accept that some people cannot do so, but for the others—to languish at home. It has to be to encourage them to find work or to upskill. And let's not forget that everyone in work gets a tax-free £12,500 and a pass on national insurance under £9,500.
As part of my research, I've delved into the world of universal credit, built on the foundation of one payment for all benefits due. I personally have no difficulty with the concept of universal credit, but I do take issue with the way it's been administered, causing deeper poverty and untold stress for claimants. Is universal credit not the same sort of thing as UBI? This is a genuine question for those who know more about this than I do. We represent a nation of workers, all of whom should take great pride in the contribution they make to society, whatever they do, and they, more than anything, I think, want to see fair play. What would they think of a proposal for UBI? I'm not sure it's a vote winner although that is certainly no bar to discussing it in great length, and I'm not sure ordinary people are ready for it. Although I do understand that some of the sentiments behind the motion are perfectly laudable, I do find some of these sweeping statements in it questionable.
My group will not be supporting this motion as it stands. We believe that the sense of purpose, self-worth and discipline of a job have far more merit than the Government handing out sums of money to those who don't necessarily need them. As I mentioned earlier, there are real structural issues with the welfare system in this country, not least the propping up of big businesses who don't want to pay decent salaries. While I now know more about UBI, and for that I thank you for this debate, I don't believe that UBI is the solution to this problem at this time. Thank you very much.
Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddiolch i Jack Sargeant am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon a'r aelodau niferus o'r Senedd sy'n cefnogi'r cynnig. Rwyf wedi clywed rhai pethau am incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol, ond mae'n rhaid i mi gyfaddef fod fy ymennydd fel arfer yn diffodd cyn gynted ag y sonnir amdano. Mae bob amser wedi'i gloi i ffwrdd yn y rhan o fy mhen sy'n dweud, 'Rhywbeth am ddim? Nid wyf yn credu hynny.' Felly, er mwyn agor fy meddwl fy hun, gwirfoddolais i gymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon ac rwyf wedi gwneud rhywfaint o ddarllen a rhywfaint o ymchwil.
Rwyf wedi gweithio drwy gydol fy oes, ers fy arddegau cynnar. Rwyf wedi ennill fy holl arian fy hun, ac rwyf wedi magu pedwar o blant heb fawr o gymorth ariannol nac emosiynol gan y ddau dad. Roeddwn yn gofalu am fy nhad oedrannus yn ystod ei flynyddoedd olaf hefyd. Rwyf wedi gwneud pob math o swyddi—swyddi diraddiol yr oeddwn yn ddiolchgar iawn amdanynt. Rwyf wedi gwneud swyddi am £1 yr awr, ac roeddwn yn falch o gael y rheini. Yr unig adeg yr hawliais unrhyw fath o fudd-dal oedd pan gefais anaf i fy asgwrn cefn. Roedd arnaf angen y rhwyd ddiogelwch honno, ac roeddwn yn ddiolchgar amdani. Wedi dweud hynny, os byddaf byth yn wynebu adegau anodd eto, os bydd un o fy meibion yn colli ei waith, os daw fy merch yn ôl i Gymru a methu dod o hyd i swydd yn ein byd ôl-COVID, rwyf am weld rhwydwaith cymorth ar waith ar eu cyfer, ar gyfer pawb, sy'n dosturiol ac yn realistig, ac yn gallu ymateb i anghenion yr unigolyn.
Rwy'n credu bod system fudd-daliadau'r DU yn llanast, wedi'i gweinyddu gan wasanaeth sifil diysgog sy'n rhoi pwyslais ar dicio blychau ac yn methu ei gael yn iawn. Fodd bynnag, mae'r ffaith bod y rhan fwyaf o'r budd-dal yn cael ei dalu i bobl mewn gwaith y tu hwnt i mi. Pam y mae'r trethdalwr i bob pwrpas yn rhoi cymhorthdal i gyfranddalwyr corfforaethau mawr na fyddant yn talu cyflog teilwng i bobl am waith gweddus? Tra bydd hyn yn parhau, bydd cyflogau'n aros lle maent, ac rwy'n credu eu bod wedi aros yn eithaf gwastad ers y cwymp ariannol. A bydd angen cymorth budd-daliadau ychwanegol ar bobl a banciau bwyd tra bo hyn yn parhau. Mae'n gwbl warthus.
Darllenais gyda diddordeb adroddiadau ynglŷn â threialu incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn y Ffindir yn 2018-19, ond y peth sy'n peri pryder i mi yw mai'r canlyniad net oedd bod y di-waith wedi mynd i ddioddef llai o straen ac ychydig yn hapusach. Yn ystod y cyfnod hwn, ni wnaethant chwilio am gyfleoedd gwaith a hyfforddiant. Byddai honno'n broblem fawr. A does bosibl mai'r nod i'r rhai sy'n gallu gweithio—ac rwy'n derbyn na all rhai pobl wneud hynny, ond i'r lleill—yw dihoeni yn eu cartrefi. Rhaid eu hannog i ddod o hyd i waith neu i uwchsgilio. A gadewch inni beidio ag anghofio bod pawb mewn gwaith yn cael £12,500 yn ddi-dreth ac yn osgoi talu yswiriant gwladol o dan £9,500.
Fel rhan o fy ymchwil, edrychais ar fyd y credyd cynhwysol, wedi'i adeiladu ar sail un taliad ar gyfer pob budd-dal sy'n ddyledus. Nid wyf fi'n bersonol yn cael unrhyw anhawster gyda'r cysyniad o gredyd cynhwysol, ond rwy'n anghytuno â'r ffordd y mae wedi'i weinyddu, gan achosi tlodi dyfnach a straen diddiwedd i hawlwyr. Onid yw credyd cynhwysol yr un math o beth ag incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol? Mae hwn yn gwestiwn dilys i'r rhai sy'n gwybod mwy am hyn na mi. Rydym yn cynrychioli cenedl o weithwyr, a dylai pob un ohonynt ymfalchïo'n fawr yn y cyfraniad a wnânt i gymdeithas, beth bynnag a wnânt, ac maent hwy, yn fwy na dim rwy'n credu, am weld chwarae teg. Beth fyddent yn ei feddwl o gynnig o blaid incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol? Nid wyf yn siŵr y bydd yn gyfrwng i ennill pleidleisiau er, yn sicr, nid yw hynny'n rhwystr i'w drafod yn helaeth, ac nid wyf yn siŵr fod pobl gyffredin yn barod amdano. Er fy mod yn deall bod rhai o'r teimladau sy'n sail i'r cynnig yn gwbl ganmoladwy, mae rhai o'r datganiadau ysgubol sydd ynddo yn amheus.
Ni fydd fy ngrŵp yn cefnogi'r cynnig hwn fel y mae. Credwn fod gan yr ymdeimlad o bwrpas, hunan-werth a disgyblaeth y mae swydd yn eu cynnig lawer mwy o werth na'r Llywodraeth yn rhoi arian i'r rhai nad oes ei angen arnynt o reidrwydd. Fel y soniais yn gynharach, mae problemau strwythurol gwirioneddol gyda'r system les yn y wlad hon, yn enwedig y modd y cynhelir busnesau mawr nad ydynt eisiau talu cyflogau gweddus. Er fy mod bellach yn gwybod mwy am incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol, ac am hynny diolch i chi am y ddadl hon, nid wyf yn credu mai incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yw'r ateb i'r broblem ar hyn o bryd. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
I call the Minister for finance, Rebecca Evans.
Galwaf ar y Gweinidog cyllid, Rebecca Evans.
Thank you. I'm really pleased to be able to respond to what has been a really interesting debate. The idea of a universal basic income has much to commend it. If it were introduced within a coherent set of reforms to the tax and welfare system, its advantages have the potential to deliver economic gains to women and to disadvantaged groups in particular. The Welsh Government is, of course, fully supportive of those objectives and a trial could, in principle, help to establish how far these objectives could be realised in practice.
Of course, no matter how attractive a policy is in principle, there are always some complications, limitations or unintended consequences that might risk undermining the contribution it can make to the goals of tackling poverty and inequality if they're not fully addressed and assessed. If a universal basic income were to be paid at a level that would make a real difference to people's standards of living, this would inevitably come with a high cost, and rather than being a criticism of UBI, this is simply a recognition of the reality that UBI would be intended to make a transformational difference to people's lives.
Just for illustration, if a full universal basic income were paid in Wales to all working-age adults and set at the level of the official living wage, the cost would be in very round terms around £35 billion a year. If set at the level of the real living wage, the cost would be around £40 billion. And again, just for illustration, these figures are around twice the size of the Welsh Government's budget and, as a further comparison, income tax in Wales raises in total just over £5 billion. Of course, the costs could be much reduced if universal basic income was paid at a lower rate, but, of course, this would then reduce its attraction.
Naturally, the introduction of universal basic income would also increase tax revenues and remove or reduce the need for some benefits. So, it therefore would require a comprehensive redesign of the whole tax and benefits system and, of course, most of the elements in this system are not devolved. It's important to recognise that even if a full universal basic income of the type that we've talked about were introduced, research indicates that some of the most disadvantaged people could be worse off, unless some of those elements of the benefits system were retained, at least in a modified form. So, obviously, we would have to be very much alive to that. Those who might be worse off would include large families and, particularly, families where members are disabled.
In addition, the level and structure of taxes would need to change, both to ensure that the overall system was as progressive as possible, and also to raise the additional revenue that would be required. Very careful design work would therefore need to be undertaken to minimise the risks to disadvantaged groups, and to ensure affordability.
When faced with such a complex change, I think we should also consider whether the desired objectives could also be secured more quickly or more effectively by other reforms to existing taxes and benefits. A good place to start would be reversing the disastrous cuts to welfare benefits introduced by the current and the previous Conservative-led UK Governments, and restoring the cuts that have been made to the funding of the public services on which those on the lowest incomes most depend.
Once public services have fully been restored, we should also consider whether a model based on the development of universal basic services, with a focus on the services that are most intensively used by people on low incomes, could offer better outcomes than the provision of income in monetary form. A trial of universal basic income could go some way to helping us assess the benefits and the risks of making such a fundamental change, comparing it with the alternatives and determining what we would need to do to minimise the risks. In the Welsh Government's view, such a large and thorough trial would be essential before committing to a complete recast of the tax and benefit system.
The Welsh Government would be open to such a trial taking place in Wales, but we have to be realistic that such a trial would not be possible without the active co-operation of the UK Government, and this is because of the interaction of universal basic income with the tax and benefit system, as I've just described. If such a trial were offered, we would also require that conditions were met to ensure that the Welsh Government and this Senedd were able to play a significant role in the design, governance and accountability of any scheme. Were the Welsh Government to make payments to individuals without the co-operation of the UK Government, this could simply result in them being ineligible for existing benefits or paying more in tax. Aside from the fact that this would not then be a proper test of the effect of an unconditional payment, it would, in effect, result in the transfer of resources from the Welsh Government to the UK Government. And, sadly, our recent experience of the UK Government's approach to the taxation of our payments to social care workers doesn't suggest that we should expect their active co-operation. While we were able to make similar payments to flood victims without incurring those deductions, it's clear that we can't expect a consistent and reliable response from the UK Government on these matters.
Any trial should also be developed with social partners, and I recognise that there are some mixed views amongst those partners on the impact of any UBI scheme on job security and pay. I'm told that one unintended consequence could be an increase in precarious employment practices, or rates of pay that fail to recognise fair reward. So, quite rightly, UBI advocates would argue that any scheme would need to be backed by higher minimum wages and stronger regulations on zero-hours contracts to guard against these risks.
So, while the Welsh Government is open to the principle of a trial, the timing of any trial and the subsequent wider introduction of UBI must be dependent on there being in place a UK Government that is a true partner in our objectives on poverty, inequality and fair work, but, of course, I'm more than happy to continue the conversation. Thank you for a really useful debate.
Diolch. Rwy'n falch iawn o allu ymateb i'r hyn a fu'n ddadl ddiddorol iawn. Mae gan y syniad o incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol lawer o rinweddau. Pe bai'n cael ei gyflwyno o fewn cyfres gydlynol o ddiwygiadau i'r system dreth a lles, mae gan ei fanteision botensial i sicrhau enillion economaidd i fenywod ac i grwpiau difreintiedig yn arbennig. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru, wrth gwrs, yn gwbl gefnogol i'r amcanion hynny a gallai treial, mewn egwyddor, helpu i ganfod i ba raddau y gellid gwireddu'r amcanion hyn yn ymarferol.
Wrth gwrs, ni waeth pa mor ddeniadol yw polisi mewn egwyddor, mae yna gymhlethdodau, cyfyngiadau neu ganlyniadau anfwriadol bob amser a allai greu risg o danseilio'r cyfraniad y gall ei wneud i'r nod o drechu tlodi ac anghydraddoldeb os na chânt sylw llawn a'u hasesu. Pe bai incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn cael ei dalu ar lefel a fyddai'n gwneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol i safonau byw pobl, byddai hyn yn anochel yn golygu cost uchel, ac yn hytrach na bod yn feirniadaeth o incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol, dim ond cydnabyddiaeth yw hyn o'r realiti mai bwriad incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol fyddai gwneud gwahaniaeth trawsnewidiol i fywydau pobl.
Er enghraifft, pe bai incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol llawn yn cael ei dalu yng Nghymru i bob oedolyn o oedran gweithio ac wedi'i osod ar lefel y cyflog byw swyddogol, byddai'r gost yn fras iawn oddeutu £35 biliwn y flwyddyn. Os caiff ei bennu ar lefel y cyflog byw go iawn, byddai'r gost oddeutu £40 biliwn. Ac unwaith eto, i ddarlunio'r hyn a olyga, mae'r ffigurau tua dwywaith maint cyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru ac fel cymhariaeth bellach, mae treth incwm yng Nghymru'n codi cyfanswm o ychydig dros £5 biliwn. Wrth gwrs, gellid lleihau'r costau'n fawr pe bai incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn cael ei dalu ar gyfradd is, ond wrth gwrs, byddai hynny wedyn yn lleihau ei apêl.
Yn naturiol, byddai cyflwyno incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol hefyd yn cynyddu refeniw treth ac yn dileu neu'n lleihau'r angen am rai budd-daliadau. Felly, byddai angen ailgynllunio'r system dreth a budd-daliadau gyfan yn gynhwysfawr ac wrth gwrs, nid yw'r rhan fwyaf o'r elfennau yn y system hon wedi'u datganoli. Hyd yn oed pe bai incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol llawn o'r math y buom yn sôn amdano yn cael ei gyflwyno, mae'n bwysig cydnabod bod ymchwil yn dangos y gallai rhai o'r bobl fwyaf difreintiedig fod yn waeth eu byd oni bai bod rhai o elfennau'r system fudd-daliadau'n cael eu cadw, ar ffurf wedi'i haddasu o leiaf. Felly, yn amlwg, byddai'n rhaid inni fod yn effro iawn i hynny. Byddai'r rhai a allai fod yn waeth eu byd yn cynnwys teuluoedd mawr ac yn enwedig, teuluoedd lle mae rhai o'r aelodau'n anabl.
Yn ogystal, byddai angen i lefel a strwythur y trethi newid er mwyn sicrhau bod y system gyffredinol mor flaengar â phosibl, a hefyd i godi'r refeniw ychwanegol y byddai ei angen. Felly, byddai angen gwneud gwaith cynllunio gofalus iawn i leihau'r risgiau i grwpiau difreintiedig, ac i sicrhau fforddiadwyedd.
Wrth wynebu newid mor gymhleth, credaf y dylem hefyd ystyried a ellid sicrhau'r amcanion a ddymunir yn gyflymach neu'n fwy effeithiol drwy ddiwygiadau eraill i drethi a budd-daliadau sy'n bodoli eisoes. Lle da i ddechrau fyddai gwrthdroi'r toriadau trychinebus i fudd-daliadau lles a gyflwynwyd gan Lywodraethau presennol a blaenorol y DU dan arweiniad y Ceidwadwyr, ac adfer y toriadau a wnaed i ariannu'r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus y mae'r rheini sydd ar yr incwm isaf yn dibynnu fwyaf arnynt.
Pan fydd gwasanaethau cyhoeddus wedi'u hadfer yn llawn, dylem hefyd ystyried a allai model sy'n seiliedig ar ddatblygu gwasanaethau sylfaenol cyffredinol, gyda ffocws ar y gwasanaethau a ddefnyddir fwyaf gan bobl ar incwm isel, gynnig gwell canlyniadau na darparu incwm ar ffurf ariannol. Gallai treialu incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol wneud llawer i'n helpu i asesu manteision a risgiau gwneud newid mor sylfaenol, gan ei gymharu â'r dewisiadau amgen a phenderfynu beth fyddai angen inni ei wneud i leihau'r risgiau. Ym marn Llywodraeth Cymru, byddai treial mor fawr a thrylwyr yn hanfodol cyn ymrwymo i ail-lunio'r system dreth a budd-daliadau'n llwyr.
Byddai Llywodraeth Cymru yn agored i dreial o'r fath gael ei gynnal yng Nghymru, ond rhaid inni fod yn realistig na fyddai treial felly'n bosibl heb gydweithrediad gweithredol Llywodraeth y DU, a hynny oherwydd y rhyngweithio rhwng incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol a'r system dreth a budd-daliadau, fel rwyf newydd ddisgrifio. Pe bai treial o'r fath yn cael ei gynnig, byddem hefyd yn mynnu bod amodau'n cael eu bodloni i sicrhau bod Llywodraeth Cymru a'r Senedd hon yn gallu chwarae rhan bwysig yn y gwaith o gynllunio, llywodraethu a sicrhau atebolrwydd unrhyw gynllun. Pe bai Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud taliadau i unigolion heb gydweithrediad Llywodraeth y DU, gallai hynny olygu na fyddent yn gymwys i gael budd-daliadau presennol neu eu bod yn talu mwy mewn treth. Ar wahân i'r ffaith na fyddai hyn wedyn yn brawf priodol o effaith taliad diamod i bob pwrpas, byddai'n arwain at drosglwyddo adnoddau o Lywodraeth Cymru i Lywodraeth y DU. Ac yn anffodus, nid yw ein profiad diweddar o ymagwedd Llywodraeth y DU tuag at drethu ein taliadau i weithwyr gofal cymdeithasol yn awgrymu y dylem ddisgwyl eu cydweithrediad gweithredol. Er ein bod wedi gallu gwneud taliadau tebyg i ddioddefwyr llifogydd heb orfod cael y didyniadau hynny, mae'n amlwg na allwn ddisgwyl ymateb cyson a dibynadwy gan Lywodraeth y DU ar y materion hyn.
Dylid datblygu unrhyw dreial hefyd gyda phartneriaid cymdeithasol, ac rwy'n cydnabod bod rhai safbwyntiau cymysg ymhlith y partneriaid hynny ynglŷn ag effaith unrhyw gynllun incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol ar ddiogelwch swyddi a chyflogau. Dywedir wrthyf mai un canlyniad anfwriadol fyddai cynnydd mewn arferion cyflogaeth ansicr, neu gyfraddau cyflog nad ydynt yn cydnabod tâl teg am waith. Felly, yn gwbl briodol, byddai cefnogwyr incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn dadlau y byddai angen i unrhyw gynllun gael ei gefnogi gan isafswm cyflog uwch a rheoliadau cryfach ar gyfer contractau dim oriau i warchod rhag y risgiau hyn.
Felly, er bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn agored i egwyddor treialu, rhaid i amseriad unrhyw dreial a chyflwyno incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn ehangach wedyn fod yn ddibynnol ar sefydlu Llywodraeth y DU sy'n bartner gwirioneddol yn ein hamcanion mewn perthynas â thlodi, anghydraddoldeb a gwaith teg, ond wrth gwrs, rwy'n fwy na pharod i barhau â'r sgwrs. Diolch ichi am ddadl wirioneddol ddefnyddiol.
Thank you. I call Jack Sargeant to reply to the debate.
Diolch. Galwaf ar Jack Sargeant i ymateb i'r ddadl.
Diolch yn fawr, acting Presiding Officer. I'd like to thank the Minister for her contribution on behalf of the Welsh Government and also all Members who've contributed today from all sides of the debate, and those who have supported this motion before us today. If I may, I'd like to conclude by addressing some of the biggest challenges that we currently face and how a UBI could alleviate these.
Firstly, the issue of poor mental health. The charity Mind has reported that more than half of adults and two thirds of young people have said their mental health has worsened during lockdown. Now, as someone who has struggled openly with their mental health, this is deeply upsetting, but, unfortunately, it is not surprising. Now, I understand that a universal basic income cannot resolve the current pandemic, but it would at least guarantee everyone a solid foundation of financial stability from which to cope with the crisis, ensure a roof over their heads and provide food on the table.
A further example of issues we face as a society is period poverty, and whilst I welcome the Welsh Government's initiatives to tackle this, they cannot solve the root of the problem. Widespread poverty means that one in seven girls struggle to afford period products—a basic human necessity. Now, given that half of girls feel embarrassed by their period, this is just one example of how our lack of access to very basic needs causes even the youngest members of our society undue stress and humiliation. A UBI would ensure access to the very basics for everyone.
Now, to those who argue that a UBI is not the answer to the problems, and particularly those who have supported a UK Conservative Government over the past 10 years where poverty has increased, I would say this: the current system is broken. Helen Mary Jones was absolutely right when she said the current system isn't working. We have to be bold and now is the time for change.
This system, this current system, has unkindness built into it. Universal credit is not only difficult to navigate and costly, it is punitive, enforcing sanctions for arbitrary reasons and causing financial instability for millions across the UK. In fact, the current system, and particularly universal credit, fails to protect the vulnerable full stop. For instance, because payments are made to households and not individuals, those trapped in abusive relationships can easily be subjected to financial control, afraid they may become homeless or unable to support themselves if they were to leave an abusive partner. A universal basic income would restore these women's financial agency, providing the safety net that empowers them to leave dangerous and volatile situations.
Llywydd, we have an opportunity now to make a change that not only deals with the most difficult challenges our society faces today but protects our future generations from the inevitable economic shifts coming our way. I hope the Welsh Government will listen carefully to the points made today from all sides of the Chamber, and backed by calls for a UBI trial that could help transform the lives of our most vulnerable citizens here in Wales, because David Rowlands is absolutely right, a universal basic income is desirable and essential but needs to be carefully introduced. And it's important—and I will end now, Llywydd—as Mick Antoniw very carefully said in his powerful contribution, that we continue to explore this debate in this Senedd because it's right that we're talking about it in this Welsh Parliament. So, I'm proud to bring this here today. So, diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. Thank you all very much, Members who have supported this motion already, and I would urge others, after following this debate, to vote for this motion today. Thank you.
Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd dros dro. Hoffwn ddiolch i'r Gweinidog am ei chyfraniad ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru a hefyd yr holl Aelodau sydd wedi cyfrannu heddiw o bob ochr i'r ddadl, a'r rhai sydd wedi cefnogi'r cynnig sydd gerbron heddiw. Os caf, hoffwn gloi drwy fynd i'r afael â rhai o'r heriau mwyaf sy'n ein hwynebu ar hyn o bryd a sut y gallai incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol leddfu'r rhain.
Yn gyntaf, mater iechyd meddwl gwael. Mae'r elusen Mind wedi adrodd bod mwy na hanner yr oedolion a dwy ran o dair o bobl ifanc wedi dweud bod eu hiechyd meddwl wedi gwaethygu yn ystod y cyfyngiadau symud. Nawr, fel rhywun sydd wedi cydnabod yn agored fy mod yn cael trafferth gyda fy iechyd meddwl, mae hyn yn peri gofid mawr, ond yn anffodus, nid yw'n syndod. Nawr, rwy'n deall na all incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol ddatrys y pandemig presennol, ond byddai o leiaf yn gwarantu sylfaen gadarn o sefydlogrwydd ariannol i bawb allu ymdopi â'r argyfwng, sicrhau to dros eu pennau a rhoi bwyd ar y bwrdd.
Enghraifft arall o'r problemau a wynebwn fel cymdeithas yw tlodi mislif, ac er fy mod yn croesawu mentrau Llywodraeth Cymru i fynd i'r afael â hyn, ni allant ddatrys y broblem yn y gwraidd. Golyga tlodi eang fod un o bob saith merch yn ei chael hi'n anodd fforddio cynhyrchion mislif—rheidrwydd dynol sylfaenol. Nawr, o ystyried bod hanner y merched yn teimlo embaras oherwydd eu mislif, dim ond un enghraifft yw hon o sut y mae ein diffyg mynediad at anghenion sylfaenol iawn yn achosi straen diangen a chywilydd i aelodau ieuengaf ein cymdeithas. Byddai incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn sicrhau mynediad i bawb at y pethau mwyaf sylfaenol.
Nawr, i'r rheini sy'n dadlau nad incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yw'r ateb i'r problemau, ac yn enwedig y rheini sydd wedi cefnogi Llywodraeth Geidwadol y DU dros y 10 mlynedd diwethaf lle mae tlodi wedi cynyddu, byddwn yn dweud hyn: mae'r system bresennol wedi torri. Roedd Helen Mary Jones yn llygad ei lle pan ddywedodd nad yw'r system bresennol yn gweithio. Rhaid inni fod yn feiddgar a dyma'r amser ar gyfer newid.
Mae'r system hon, y system bresennol hon, yn un sylfaenol angharedig. Mae credyd cynhwysol nid yn unig yn anodd ei ddeall ac yn gostus, mae'n gosbol, yn gorfodi sancsiynau am resymau mympwyol ac yn achosi ansefydlogrwydd ariannol i filiynau ledled y DU. Yn wir, mae'r system bresennol, ac yn enwedig credyd cynhwysol, yn methu amddiffyn pobl agored i niwed o gwbl. Er enghraifft, gan fod taliadau'n cael eu gwneud i aelwydydd ac nid i unigolion, gall y rhai sydd wedi'u dal mewn perthynas gamdriniol yn hawdd fod yn agored i reolaeth ariannol, gan ofni y gallant fod yn ddigartref neu'n methu cynnal eu hunain pe baent yn gadael partner camdriniol. Byddai incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn adfer galluedd ariannol y menywod hyn, gan ddarparu'r rhwyd ddiogelwch sy'n eu grymuso i adael sefyllfaoedd peryglus ac anwadal.
Lywydd, mae gennym gyfle yn awr i wneud newid sydd nid yn unig yn mynd i'r afael â'r heriau anoddaf y mae ein cymdeithas yn eu hwynebu heddiw ond sy'n diogelu cenedlaethau'r dyfodol rhag y newidiadau economaidd anochel a ddaw i'n rhan. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwrando'n ofalus ar y pwyntiau a wnaed heddiw ar bob ochr i'r Siambr, ac a gefnogwyd gan alwadau am dreial incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol a allai helpu i drawsnewid bywydau ein dinasyddion mwyaf agored i niwed yma yng Nghymru, oherwydd mae David Rowlands yn llygad ei le, mae incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol yn ddymunol ac yn hanfodol ond mae angen ei gyflwyno'n ofalus. Ac mae'n bwysig—ac fe ddof i ben yn awr, Lywydd—fel y dywedodd Mick Antoniw yn ofalus iawn yn ei gyfraniad pwerus, mae'n bwysig ein bod yn parhau i archwilio'r ddadl hon yn y Senedd oherwydd mae'n iawn ein bod yn siarad amdani yn y Senedd Gymreig hon. Felly, rwy'n falch o gyflwyno hyn yma heddiw. Felly, diolch yn fawr iawn, Lywydd. Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi, yr Aelodau sydd wedi cefnogi'r cynnig hwn eisoes, a byddwn yn annog eraill, ar ôl dilyn y ddadl, i bleidleisio dros y cynnig hwn heddiw. Diolch.
Thank you very much. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting under this item until voting time.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Y cwestiwn yw a ddylid derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Rwy'n gohirio'r pleidleisio o dan yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
There will now be a 10-minute interruption whilst we allow for a change-over. Thank you.
Bydd toriad o 10 munud yn awr tra byddwn yn newid personél. Diolch.
Ataliwyd y Cyfarfod Llawn am 17:22.
Ailymgynullodd y Senedd am 17:33, gyda'r Llywydd yn y Gadair.
Plenary was suspended at 17:22.
The Senedd reconvened at 17:33, with the Llywydd in the Chair.
Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Rebecca Evans, gwelliant 2 yn enw Caroline Jones, gwelliant 3 yn enw Gareth Bennett, a gwelliant 4 yn enw Neil McEvoy. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, bydd gwelliannau 2 a 3 yn cael eu dad-ddethol.
The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Rebecca Evans, amendment 2 in the name of Caroline Jones, amendment 3 in the name of Gareth Bennett, and amendment 4 in the name of Neil McEvoy. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be deselected.
Yr eitem nesaf ar ein hagenda ni yw dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig am werth am arian i drethdalwyr, a dwi'n galw ar Angela Burns i wneud y cynnig. Angela Burns.
The next item on our agenda is the Welsh Conservatives debate on value for money for taxpayers, and I call on Angela Burns to move the motion. Angela Burns.
Cynnig NDM7404 Darren Millar
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn nodi bod rheoli arian trethdalwyr yn llwyddiannus yn dibynnu ar amcanion clir, llywodraethu da a gwaith craffu effeithiol.
2. Yn gresynu at y ffaith bod dros £1 biliwn wedi'i wastraffu gan Lywodraethau olynol Cymru ar bolisïau di-rym, prosiectau y cefnwyd arnynt a gorwario yn erbyn cyllidebau ers 2010.
3. Yn gresynu ymhellach at y ffaith y caniatawyd i bolisïau Cymreig a allai fod wedi bod yn rhai da edwino oherwydd diffyg cefnogaeth a phenderfyniadau a wnaed gan ganolbwyntio ar y tymor byr.
4. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sefydlu swyddfa drawsadrannol sydd wrth wraidd y llywodraeth i sbarduno newid diwylliant, herio'r broses o wneud penderfyniadau a sicrhau bod gwerth am arian yn cael ei ddarparu i drethdalwyr.
Motion NDM7404 Darren Millar
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Notes that successful management of taxpayers’ money depends on clear objectives, good governance and effective scrutiny.
2. Regrets that in excess of £1 billion has been wasted by successive Welsh Governments on defunct policies, abandoned projects and overspending against budgets since 2010.
3. Further regrets that potentially good Welsh policies have been allowed to wither due to a lack of buy-in and short-term decision-making.
4. Calls upon the Welsh Government to establish a cross-departmental office at the heart of government to drive a culture change, challenge decision making and ensure the delivery of value for money for taxpayers.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch, Llywydd. The motion tabled by the Welsh Conservatives today is very clear: do not waste the taxpayers' money. And the motion is clear because the Welsh Conservatives are the party that understands the true value of the taxpayers' money—money the people of Wales and the United Kingdom have worked hard to make—the graft it takes and the hope it gives for a decent way of life. We want our taxes to pay for a good health and social care system, a transformative education system and decent housing for those who need shelter. We want our taxes to help build a thriving economy, to deliver the infrastructure projects we need and to support cultural and societal growth. The taxpayer's pound is a precious commodity, and one no Government should take for granted, yet this Government, the Welsh Labour Government, have become ever more careless about that precious commodity, the taxpayer's pound.
Diolch, Lywydd. Mae'r cynnig a gyflwynwyd gan y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig heddiw yn glir iawn: peidiwch â gwastraffu arian y trethdalwyr. Ac mae'r cynnig yn glir oherwydd mai'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yw'r blaid sy'n deall gwir werth arian y trethdalwyr—arian y mae pobl Cymru a'r Deyrnas Unedig wedi gweithio'n galed i'w ennill—y gwaith caled sydd y tu cefn iddo a'r gobaith y mae'n ei roi am ffordd o fyw sy'n weddus. Rydym am i'n trethi dalu am system iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol dda, system addysg drawsnewidiol a thai gweddus i'r rheini sydd angen lloches. Rydym am i'n trethi helpu i adeiladu economi ffyniannus, i gyflawni'r prosiectau seilwaith sydd eu hangen arnom ac i gefnogi twf diwylliannol a chymdeithasol. Mae punt y trethdalwr yn nwydd gwerthfawr, ac yn un na ddylai'r Llywodraeth ei chymryd yn ganiataol, ac eto mae'r Llywodraeth hon, Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru, wedi mynd yn fwyfwy di-ofal gyda'r nwydd gwerthfawr hwnnw, sef punt y trethdalwr.
The evidence is clear and unambiguous: over £1 billion has been wasted by successive Welsh Labour Governments in the past decade. It makes no odds whether they're joined at the hip with Plaid Cymru or the Liberal Democrats—the waste goes on and on.
As I will demonstrate during this contribution, too many projects, policies and initiatives struggle—and I'm struggling, sorry, with my autocue here—to define clear objectives or agree outcomes, and even those that do are seldom subjected to the rigorous scrutiny that the use of the taxpayer's pound demands.
Even worse, Llywydd—even worse—is that so many of the projects with potential—the ones that started as pilots—crash and burn, because, once the initial funding runs out, there's no-one with funds prepared to adopt and carry the project forward. So, this Labour Government is forever reinventing the wheel, like a hamster going round and round, ever busier but with no destination.
I have read endless committee reports, Wales Audit Office reports, health board reports, external organisation reports, third sector reports, think tank and research reports. Again and again, the same themes emerge: lack of capacity, lack of capability, lack of sustainability, lack of consistency, lack of focus, lack of objectives, lack of scrutiny, lack of value for money. The theme goes on and on and rather like the theme in Titanic, and, like the Titanic, this Government is holed below the waterline, and the taxpayer's pound is sinking into the abyss.
The passion I and my colleagues have to raise the game in Wales to ensure there is a deep sense of fiscal responsibility is why I'm rejecting most of the amendments before us; the Government's because it is utterly pointless and has no shame, no recognition of the taxpayer's pound they've consistently wasted, and no sense of responsibility—it's always somebody else's fault—Gareth Bennett's amendment because we don't do ostrich—move on, Gareth, the times have. Neil McEvoy's amendment I have some sympathy with, but I would need to be convinced that pushing everything through local authorities is the answer.
I will accept Caroline Jones's amendment. Trust is low, and I think the waste of money the public sees—the overspends, the lack of responsibility—has contributed to people in Wales giving up and not participating. Would you trust anyone who wasted £1 billion of your money? We've all heard of the usual suspects: £221 million on uncompetitive enterprise zones; over £9 million on the flawed initial funding for the Circuit of Wales; almost £100 million on delays and overspend on the Heads of the Valleys road; £157 million—gosh, that number's ingrained in our hearts, isn't it—on the M4 relief road inquiry; over £100 million just propping up Cardiff Airport.
But, as ever, there are devils to be found in the detail. There are lesser known screw-ups where there were no clear objectives, where there was no real capacity to scale up success, where there was no commitment to long-term sustainability, where the projects that were failing were not terminated promptly enough, where scrutiny was ad hoc or non-existent, or not reviewed by people with the authority or the guts to make the hard decisions.
An example of sheer fiscal incompetence can be found in the June 2020 Audit Wales report on Labour's rural development grant scheme. The report found that £53 million of grants were made without ensuring value for money. And I quote the Wales Audit Office report: out of £598 million already provided under the scheme,
'the Welsh Government granted £68 million through "direct applications". In this process, officials invited known individuals or organisations to apply without any competition.'
In short, the auditor general found that key aspects of the design, operation and oversight of the Welsh Government's controls over the programme were not effective enough to secure value for money. In other words, the Welsh Government granted funds without competition, did not document why applicants were selected and made individual grant awards without demonstrating sufficient consideration for value for money. If that were not careless enough with the taxpayer's pound, the Labour Government just handed out funds to existing projects without checking if they were successful. There was no meaningful programme and project oversight.
Let me turn from the Wales Audit Office to examples from the Senedd's Public Accounts Committee. The Public Accounts Committee published two reports over the course of this term highlighting concerns with the accounts of Natural Resources Wales. Seven years ago, the creation of NRW through the merger of the environment agency, countryside council and the forestry commission, was heralded as a way of providing a more accountable, streamlined and efficient way of managing and safeguarding the nation's environment and natural resources. Yet the reports by PAC have highlighted that NRW have failed to deliver on these goals.
Mae'r dystiolaeth yn glir ac yn ddiamwys: mae dros £1 biliwn wedi'i wastraffu gan lywodraethau Llafur olynol yng Nghymru yn ystod y degawd diwethaf. Nid yw'n gwneud unrhyw wahaniaeth a ydynt ynghlwm wrth Blaid Cymru neu'r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol—mae'r gwastraff yn parhau.
Fel y byddaf yn ei ddangos yn ystod y cyfraniad hwn, mae gormod o brosiectau, polisïau a chynlluniau'n ei chael hi'n anodd—ac rwy'n ei chael hi'n anodd gyda fy awtociw yma, mae'n ddrwg gennyf—diffinio amcanion clir neu gytuno ar ganlyniadau, ac anaml y bydd hyd yn oed y rhai sy'n gwneud hynny'n ddarostyngedig i'r gwaith craffu trwyadl y mae'r defnydd o bunt y trethdalwr yn galw amdano.
Yr hyn sy'n waeth byth, Lywydd—yn waeth byth—yw bod cynifer o'r prosiectau sydd â photensial—y rhai a ddechreuodd fel cynlluniau peilot—yn chwalu ac yn methu, oherwydd, ar ôl i'r cyllid cychwynnol ddod i ben, nid oes neb ag arian yn barod i fabwysiadu a bwrw ymlaen â'r prosiect. Felly, mae'r Llywodraeth Lafur hon yn ailddyfeisio'r olwyn yn dragywydd, fel bochdew'n mynd rownd a rownd, yn brysurach nag erioed ond heb allu mynd i unman.
Rwyf wedi darllen adroddiadau pwyllgor diddiwedd, adroddiadau Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, adroddiadau byrddau iechyd, adroddiadau sefydliadau allanol, adroddiadau'r trydydd sector, adroddiadau melinau trafod ac adroddiadau ymchwil. Dro ar ôl tro, daw'r un themâu i'r amlwg: diffyg capasiti, diffyg gallu, diffyg cynaliadwyedd, diffyg cysondeb, diffyg ffocws, diffyg amcanion, diffyg craffu, diffyg gwerth am arian. Mae'r stori'n mynd ymlaen ac ymlaen ac ychydig fel y thema yn Titanic, mae'r Llywodraeth hon yn methu codi ei phen uwchben y dŵr, ac mae punt y trethdalwr yn suddo'n is.
Oherwydd yr angerdd sydd gennyf fi a fy nghyd-Aelodau i wella pethau yng Nghymru er mwyn sicrhau bod yna ymdeimlad dwfn o gyfrifoldeb ariannol, rwy'n gwrthod y rhan fwyaf o'r gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd; gwelliant y Llywodraeth am ei fod yn gwbl ddibwrpas ac yn ddigywilydd, dim cydnabyddiaeth o bunt y trethdalwr y maent wedi'i gwastraffu'n gyson, a dim ymdeimlad o gyfrifoldeb—bai rhywun arall bob amser—gwelliant Gareth Bennett am nad ydym am gladdu ein pennau yn y tywod—symudwch ymlaen, Gareth, mae'r oes wedi gwneud hynny. Mae gennyf rywfaint o gydymdeimlad â gwelliant Neil McEvoy, ond byddai angen i mi gael fy argyhoeddi mai gwthio popeth drwy awdurdodau lleol yw'r ateb.
Rwy'n derbyn gwelliant Caroline Jones. Ni cheir fawr o hyder, a chredaf fod y gwastraff arian y mae'r cyhoedd yn ei weld—y gorwariant, y diffyg cyfrifoldeb—wedi cyfrannu at y ffaith bod pobl Cymru'n rhoi'r ffidil yn y to ac yn gwrthod cymryd rhan. A fyddech chi'n ymddiried yn rhywun a wastraffodd £1 biliwn o'ch arian? Rydym i gyd wedi clywed am yr hen enghreifftiau: £221 miliwn ar ardaloedd menter anghystadleuol; dros £9 miliwn ar y cyllid cychwynnol diffygiol i Cylchffordd Cymru; bron i £100 miliwn ar oedi a gorwario ar ffordd Blaenau'r Cymoedd; £157 miliwn—mawredd, mae'r swm hwnnw wedi'i serio yn ein meddyliau, onid yw—ar ymchwiliad ffordd liniaru'r M4; dros £100 miliwn yn cynnal Maes Awyr Caerdydd.
Ond fel arfer, yn y manylion y ceir hyd i'r gwir. Ceir hyd i fethiannau llai hysbys lle na chafwyd unrhyw amcanion clir, lle nad oedd unrhyw allu gwirioneddol i ehangu llwyddiant, lle nad oedd unrhyw ymrwymiad i gynaliadwyedd hirdymor, lle na chafodd prosiectau a oedd yn methu eu dirwyn i ben yn ddigon buan, lle'r oedd gwaith craffu'n digwydd ar sail ad hoc neu lle nad oedd yn digwydd o gwbl, neu lle na châi ei adolygu gan bobl â'r awdurdod a'r dewrder i wneud y penderfyniadau anodd.
Gwelir un enghraifft o anallu cyllidol pur yn adroddiad Archwilio Cymru ym mis Mehefin 2020 ar gynllun grant datblygu gwledig Llafur. Canfu'r adroddiad fod £53 miliwn o grantiau wedi'u gwneud heb sicrhau gwerth am arian. Ac rwy'n dyfynnu adroddiad Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru: o'r £598 miliwn a ddarparwyd eisoes o dan y cynllun, dyfarnodd Llywodraeth Cymru
'£68 miliwn o arian grant drwy broses ‘ceisiadau uniongyrchol’ lle bu i swyddogion wahodd ceisiadau i gael arian heb gystadleuaeth.'
Yn fyr, canfu'r archwilydd cyffredinol nad oedd agweddau allweddol ar gynllun, gweithrediad a throsolwg ar fesurau rheoli Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer y rhaglen yn ddigon effeithiol i sicrhau gwerth am arian. Mewn geiriau eraill, rhoddodd Llywodraeth Cymru arian heb gystadleuaeth, ni ddogfennodd pam y dewiswyd ymgeiswyr a dyfarnodd grantiau unigol heb ddangos digon o ystyriaeth i werth am arian. Os nad oedd hynny'n ddigon di-ofal â phunt y trethdalwr, rhoddodd y Llywodraeth Lafur arian i brosiectau a oedd yn bodoli'n barod heb edrych i weld a oeddent yn llwyddiannus. Ni chafwyd unrhyw drosolwg ystyrlon ar y rhaglenni a'r prosiectau.
Gadewch i mi droi oddi wrth Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru at enghreifftiau gan Bwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus y Senedd. Cyhoeddodd y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus ddau adroddiad yn ystod y tymor hwn yn tynnu sylw at bryderon ynghylch cyfrifon Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru. Saith mlynedd yn ôl, cyhoeddwyd bod creu Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru drwy uno asiantaeth yr amgylchedd, y cyngor cefn gwlad a'r comisiwn coedwigaeth yn ffordd o ddarparu dull mwy atebol, syml ac effeithlon o reoli a diogelu amgylchedd ac adnoddau naturiol y genedl. Ac eto, mae adroddiadau'r Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus wedi tynnu sylw at y ffaith bod Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru wedi methu cyflawni'r nodau hyn.
The committee was damning in its condemnation of NRW following contracts it had agreed on timber sales. They highlighted the auditor general's findings that the contracts were novel, repercussive and contentious and reinforced views that uncertainty existed around whether Natural Resources Wales complied with principles of public law and state-aid rules.
What makes these findings worse is that the lessons were not learnt, because 18 months later the Public Accounts Committee repeated its criticism. They found that there were a number of concerning issues around the awarding of these timber contracts that were unexplained, leading the committee to conclude there had been a cultural failure within the organisation in relation to governance and that a serious overhaul is needed.
Minister, have you picked up the Titanic thing yet? Like a range of other public bodies and public projects in Wales, there was not enough oversight and accountability, no commitment to using the taxpayer's pound wisely and seeking value for money, and a complete inability to learn from failure. The mistakes kept going on and on.
Similar findings were highlighted when PAC investigated the Supporting People programme. It found that the pace of progress in addressing issues raised by previous reviews, for example, with regard to the funding formula and the monitoring of the impact of the programme, had been slow. There were also ongoing inconsistencies in the management of the programme at a local level. Minister, this was a programme that had been in place for 14 years, and, in 14 years, your programme could not get its act together. How long should it take?
Nor did the Public Accounts Committee hold back on its scrutiny of the NHS Wales Informatics Service. Let me give you another direct quote:
'Our inquiry has raised serious question marks about the competence, capability and capacity across the health system to deliver a digital transformation in Welsh healthcare. And yet we discovered a culture of self-censorship and denial amongst those charged with taking the agenda forward'.
To be frank, that's no surprise. I've seen this culture of self-censorship and denial up close every month for the past decade or more.
Other committees make the same points on portfolio-specific inquiries, including many on health, ranging from care homes to GP clusters, education and community spends. Minister, these are not partisan reports written by unfriendly think tanks or opposition politicians, but the findings of Welsh Parliament scrutiny committees with cross-party representation, often following reports by the auditor general.
I say to the people of Wales: do not despair, there is a lifeboat in sight. Because a Welsh Conservative Government would ensure that, from day one, it was accountable and transparent. We will immediately put in place the office of Government resilience and efficiency, which would be separate to the Government and have a cross-portfolio responsibility to ensure that policy and spending decisions follow the overall objectives of the Government and dovetail with each other. After all, we saw the disaster of the Welsh Labour Government's climate change policy. It was in direct contradiction with the M4 relief road debacle. It took £157 million before Labour figured that one out.
OGRE will change that culture of self-censorship and denial. We will not be afraid to challenge and change. It is why we need a devolution revolution. OGRE will not just scrutinise expenditure, but it will scrutinise and ensure there is cohesion in all our policies, whether it's climate change and sustainability, human rights, raising educational standards, protecting the vulnerable and poor, food security, delivering properly funded social care, or protecting the NHS.
We, the Welsh Conservatives, will remember we're here to serve the citizens of Wales. We will spend the taxpayer's pound wisely. We will cut out the unnecessary layers of bureaucracy and ensure we deliver a more streamlined and transparent Government. Welsh Conservative policies have clear objectives, clear outcomes and rigorous management, where policies are given every chance to succeed, but evaluated and stopped if they are not working. No more taxpayers' pounds going into an endless abyss.
Let me finish by making it clear that the last point of our motion is an exercise in hope over experience. We hope Labour will step up and stop the waste, but the reality is that, after 20-odd years and well over £1 billion of taxpayers' money wasted in just the last decade, I don't think Welsh Labour Government are capable of driving a culture change, of delivering value for money, of challenging decision making. We will call for it, but I'm not holding my breath. But, Minister, you should. The Titanic's going down.
Roedd y pwyllgor yn ddamniol yn ei gondemniad o Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru yn dilyn contractau roedd wedi'u cytuno ar gyfer gwerthu pren. Tynnwyd sylw at ganfyddiadau'r archwilydd cyffredinol fod y contractau'n newydd, yn arwain at sgil-effeithiau ac yn ddadleuol, ac atgyfnerthodd y farn fod yna ansicrwydd a oedd Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru yn cydymffurfio ag egwyddorion cyfraith gyhoeddus a rheolau cymorth gwladwriaethol.
Yr hyn sy'n gwneud y canfyddiadau'n waeth yw na ddysgwyd y gwersi, oherwydd 18 mis yn ddiweddarach ailadroddodd y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus ei feirniadaeth. Canfu fod nifer o bryderon yn codi ynghylch dyfarnu'r contractau pren nad oedd esboniad iddynt, gan arwain y pwyllgor i ddod i'r casgliad y bu methiant diwylliannol o fewn y sefydliad mewn perthynas â llywodraethu a bod galw am ailwampio difrifol.
Weinidog, a ydych chi wedi sylwi ar y tebygrwydd i'r Titanic eto? Fel amryw o gyrff cyhoeddus a phrosiectau cyhoeddus eraill yng Nghymru, nid oedd digon o drosolwg ac atebolrwydd, dim ymrwymiad i ddefnyddio punt y trethdalwr yn ddoeth a cheisio gwerth am arian, ac anallu llwyr i ddysgu o fethiant. Roedd y camgymeriadau'n dal i ddigwydd dro ar ôl tro.
Tynnwyd sylw at ganfyddiadau tebyg pan archwiliodd y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus y rhaglen Cefnogi Pobl. Canfu arafwch i wneud cynnydd wrth fynd i'r afael â materion a godwyd gan adolygiadau blaenorol, er enghraifft mewn perthynas â'r fformiwla ariannu a monitro effaith y rhaglen. Roedd anghysondebau parhaus hefyd wrth reoli'r rhaglen ar lefel leol. Weinidog, roedd hon yn rhaglen a oedd wedi bod ar waith ers 14 mlynedd, ac am 14 mlynedd, ni allodd eich rhaglen weithredu fel y dylai. Faint o amser ddylai hynny ei gymryd?
Ni wnaeth y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus ymatal ychwaith yn ei waith craffu ar Wasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru. Gadewch i mi roi dyfyniad uniongyrchol arall i chi:
'Mae ein hymchwiliad wedi codi cwestiynau difrifol am gymhwysedd, gallu a
chapasiti ar draws y system iechyd i gyflawni gweddnewidiad digidol yng ngofal iechyd Cymru. Ac eto canfuwyd diwylliant o hunan-sensoriaeth a diarddeliad ymhlith y rhai sy’n gyfrifol am fwrw ymlaen â’r agenda'.
A dweud y gwir, nid yw hynny'n syndod. Rwyf wedi gweld diwylliant o hunansensoriaeth a gwadiad yn agos bob mis dros y degawd diwethaf neu fwy.
Mae pwyllgorau eraill yn gwneud yr un pwyntiau mewn ymchwiliadau i bortffolios penodol, gan gynnwys sawl un ar iechyd, yn amrywio o gartrefi gofal i glystyrau meddygon teulu, addysg a gwariant cymunedol. Weinidog, nid adroddiadau pleidiol yw'r rhain a ysgrifennwyd gan felinau trafod anghyfeillgar neu wleidyddion y gwrthbleidiau, ond canfyddiadau pwyllgorau craffu Senedd Cymru sydd â chynrychiolaeth drawsbleidiol, yn aml yn dilyn adroddiadau gan yr archwilydd cyffredinol.
Rwy'n dweud wrth bobl Cymru: peidiwch ag anobeithio, mae bad achub ar y gorwel. Oherwydd byddai Llywodraeth Geidwadol yng Nghymru yn sicrhau, o'r diwrnod cyntaf, ei bod yn atebol ac yn dryloyw. Byddwn yn rhoi swyddfa cadernid ac effeithlonrwydd Llywodraeth (OGRE) ar waith ar unwaith, a byddai ar wahân i'r Llywodraeth a chanddi gyfrifoldeb traws-bortffolio i sicrhau bod penderfyniadau polisi a gwariant yn dilyn amcanion cyffredinol y Llywodraeth ac yn cydblethu â'i gilydd. Wedi'r cyfan, gwelsom drychineb polisi newid hinsawdd Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru. Roedd yn croes-ddweud llanast ffordd liniaru'r M4 yn llwyr. Cymerodd £157 miliwn cyn i Lafur sylweddoli hynny.
Bydd y swyddfa cadernid ac effeithlonrwydd Llywodraeth yn newid y diwylliant o hunansensoriaeth a gwadiad. Ni fydd arnom ofn herio a newid. Dyna pam ein bod angen chwyldro datganoli. Bydd y swyddfa cadernid ac effeithlonrwydd Llywodraeth nid yn unig yn craffu ar wariant, bydd yn craffu ar ein holl bolisïau ac yn sicrhau cydlyniant, boed yn newid yn yr hinsawdd a chynaliadwyedd, hawliau dynol, codi safonau addysgol, amddiffyn pobl sy'n agored i niwed ac yn dlawd, diogelu cyflenwad bwyd, darparu gofal cymdeithasol wedi'i ariannu'n briodol, neu ddiogelu'r GIG.
Byddwn ni, y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, yn cofio ein bod yma i wasanaethu dinasyddion Cymru. Byddwn yn gwario punt y trethdalwr yn ddoeth. Byddwn yn cael gwared ar yr haenau diangen o fiwrocratiaeth ac yn sicrhau ein bod yn darparu Llywodraeth fwy syml a thryloyw. Mae gan bolisïau'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig amcanion clir, canlyniadau clir a rheolaeth drwyadl, lle rhoddir pob cyfle i bolisïau lwyddo, ond lle cânt eu gwerthuso a'u dirwyn i ben os nad ydynt yn gweithio. Dim mwy o bunnoedd trethdalwyr yn mynd i dwll diwaelod.
Gadewch imi orffen drwy ei gwneud yn glir fod pwynt olaf ein cynnig wedi ei seilio'n fwy ar obaith na phrofiad. Gobeithiwn y bydd Llafur yn camu i'r adwy ac yn atal y gwastraff, ond y realiti ar ôl oddeutu 20 mlynedd ac ymhell dros £1 biliwn o arian trethdalwyr wedi'i wastraffu dros y degawd diwethaf, yw nad wyf yn credu bod Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru yn gallu sbarduno newid diwylliant, darparu gwerth am arian, herio'r broses o wneud penderfyniadau. Byddwn yn galw am hynny, ond nid wyf yn obeithiol iawn. Ond fe ddylech, Weinidog. Mae'r Titanic yn suddo.
Rwyf wedi dethol y pedwar gwelliant i’r cynnig. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliannau 2 a 3 eu dad-ddethol. Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Cyllid a'r Trefnydd i gynnig gwelliant 1 yn ffurfiol.
I have selected the four amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be deselected. I call on the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd to move amendment 1, formally.
Formally, Rebecca Evans?
Yn ffurfiol, Rebecca Evans?
Gwelliant 1—Rebecca Evans
Dileu popeth a rhoi yn ei le
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn nodi bod rheoli arian trethdalwyr yn llwyddiannus yn dibynnu ar amcanion clir, llywodraethu da a gwaith craffu effeithiol ac yn cydnabod bod economeg cyni yn cynnig gwerth gwael am arian.
2. Yn gresynu at y ffaith bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi tanariannu a / neu wedi rhwystro nifer o brosiectau, gwasanaethau a seilweithiau heb eu datganoli yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys ymchwil a datblygu, rheilffyrdd, cysylltiad band eang ac ynni’r llanw ers 2010.
3. Yn croesawu’r cynnydd a wnaed wrth gyflawni polisïau arloesol Llywodraeth Cymru sydd wedi’u cynllunio ar gyfer pobl Cymru, gan gynnwys: presgripsiynau am ddim, Twf Swyddi Cymru, system caniatâd tybiedig ar gyfer rhoi organau, un llwybr canser, y cynnig gofal plant, dyblu’r terfyn cyfalaf, Ysgolion yr 21ain Ganrif a’r Gronfa Cadernid Economaidd.
4. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth y DU i roi mwy o hyblygrwydd cyllidol i Lywodraeth Cymru er budd rheoli cyllidebau yn dda.
Amendment 1—Rebecca Evans
Delete all and replace with
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Notes that the successful management of taxpayers’ money depends on clear objectives, good governance and effective scrutiny and recognises the poor value for money represented by austerity economics.
2. Regrets that the UK Government has underfunded and / or blocked numerous non-devolved projects, services and infrastructure in Wales including research and development, rail, broadband and tidal energy since 2010.
3. Welcomes the progress made in delivering innovative Welsh Government policies designed for the people of Wales including: free prescriptions, Jobs Growth Wales, presumed consent for organ donation, the single cancer pathway, the childcare offer, the doubling of the capital limit, 21st Century Schools and the Economic Resilience Fund.
4. Calls upon the UK government to provide greater fiscal flexibilities for the Welsh Government in the interests of good budget management.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.
Amendment 1 moved.
Yes, formally.
Ie, yn ffurfiol.
Diolch. Galwaf ar Caroline Jones i gynnig gwelliant 2, a gyflwynwyd yn ei henw. Caroline Jones.
Thank you. I call on Caroline Jones to formally move amendment 2, tabled in her name. Caroline Jones.
Gwelliant 2—Caroline Jones
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ôl pwynt 3 ac ailrifo'n unol â hynny:
Yn credu bod methiant Llywodraeth Cymru i gyflawni ei pholisïau wedi helpu i gyfrannu at y diffyg ymddiriedaeth mewn gwleidyddiaeth sydd wedi golygu na chymerodd dros hanner etholwyr Cymru ran yn etholiadau'r Senedd.
Amendment 2—Caroline Jones
Insert new point after point 3 and renumber accordingly:
Believes that the Welsh Government's failure to deliver its policies has helped contribute to the lack of trust in politics which has resulted in over half of the Welsh electorate not participating in Senedd elections.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 2.
Amendment 2 moved.
Diolch, Llywydd. I formally move the amendment tabled in my name. Trust in politics is at an all-time low and is being made worse by a trail of broken promises. People are losing faith in devolution, because devolution has failed to deliver the promised benefits. Policy failures and Government waste have accelerated the erosion of trust in our institution.
As the Welsh Conservatives point out in their motion, over £1 billion of funds have been wasted in the past decade; funds that could have made a real difference to the lives and the people of Wales. How many people have died of cancer because, due to a lack of resources, an early diagnosis could not be made? How many homeless veterans have died because there wasn't enough affordable accommodation? How many children have had their life chances curtailed because they were failed by the Welsh education system? Imagine what a difference £1 billion could have made to all of those lives. Imagine how many doctors or nurses could have been employed. Imagine how many affordable homes we could have built. Instead, that money disappeared along with the hopes and dreams of many Welsh voters.
Successive Welsh Governments have promised much but failed to deliver. They promised to transform the Welsh economy. They set a target of achieving 80 per cent of UK GDP, which was dropped when it was clear that it couldn't be achieved. Despite millions of pounds of state aid, Wales continues to be the poorest region of western Europe. EU structural funds, which promised to transform west Wales and the Valleys were squandered—a colossal broken promise that failed to deliver economic prosperity. Policy failures that failed to deliver much-needed jobs in my region.
South Wales West has haemorrhaged jobs over the past decade and more. We witnessed the biggest employers downscale altogether. We were promised that new employers would replace the high-paid manufacturing jobs that were lost at Sony, Ford, Visteon, 3M, Tata and a whole host of other global manufacturers. What we got was a stream of failed schemes, wasted investment and a string of low-paid call centre jobs. The people of Wales stopped listening to the broken promises. Is it any wonder that less than a third of the electorate of South Wales West bothered to vote in 2016? Across Wales, the picture is repeated. This has resulted in huge levels of distrust in politics, and less than half of eligible voters bothered to turn out at the last Senedd elections. Is it any wonder when the Executive and the legislature spend much more time debating abstract constitutional issues than they do matters that affect the lives of ordinary people in Wales?
But we have to restore faith in politics and faith in the institutions. And we can start to do that when we deliver on the promises given to the people of Wales; when we deliver improvement to people's lives; when we eliminate waste. I agree with the Welsh Conservatives that we need to establish a cross-departmental office at the heart of Government that will ensure value for money, eliminate waste and provide openness and transparency to Welsh Government. The vast majority of us are here to deliver improvements to the lives of the people of Wales, and unfortunately far too many of those people now don't trust us and we have to rebuild that trust.
I believe in devolution and I believe in the Welsh Parliament that the people of Wales voted for. And I believe in working with every party to give the people of Wales what they want and to rebuild their lives and give them a better quality of delivery. And I urge Members to support my amendment and support the motion. Diolch yn fawr. Thank you very much.
Diolch, Lywydd. Rwy'n cynnig y gwelliant a gyflwynwyd yn fy enw i yn ffurfiol. Mae ymddiriedaeth mewn gwleidyddiaeth ar ei isaf erioed ac fe'i gwaethygir gan res o addewidion a dorrwyd. Mae pobl yn colli ffydd mewn datganoli am fod datganoli wedi methu sicrhau'r manteision a addawyd. Mae methiannau polisi a gwastraff Llywodraeth wedi cyflymu'r broses o erydu ymddiriedaeth yn ein sefydliad.
Fel y noda'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn eu cynnig, gwastraffwyd dros £1 biliwn o arian yn ystod y degawd diwethaf; arian a allai fod wedi gwneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol i fywydau pobl Cymru. Faint o bobl sydd wedi marw o ganser am na ellid gwneud diagnosis cynnar o ganlyniad i ddiffyg adnoddau? Faint o gyn-filwyr digartref sydd wedi marw am nad oedd digon o lety fforddiadwy? Faint o blant y cyfyngwyd ar eu cyfleoedd bywyd am fod system addysg Cymru wedi gwneud cam â hwy? Dychmygwch y gwahaniaeth y gallai £1 biliwn fod wedi'i wneud i'r holl fywydau hynny. Dychmygwch faint o feddygon neu nyrsys y gellid bod wedi'u cyflogi. Dychmygwch faint o dai fforddiadwy y gallem fod wedi'u hadeiladu. Yn hytrach, diflannodd yr arian hwnnw gyda gobeithion a breuddwydion llawer o bleidleiswyr Cymru.
Mae Llywodraethau olynol yng Nghymru wedi addo llawer ond wedi methu cyflawni. Addawsant drawsnewid economi Cymru. Fe wnaethant osod targed i gyrraedd 80 y cant o gynnyrch domestig gros y DU, targed a gafodd ei anghofio pan ddaeth hi'n amlwg na ellid ei gyrraedd. Er gwaethaf miliynau o bunnoedd o gymorth gwladwriaethol, Cymru yw'r rhanbarth tlotaf yng ngorllewin Ewrop o hyd. Gwastraffwyd cronfeydd strwythurol yr UE a addawodd drawsnewid gorllewin Cymru a'r Cymoedd—addewid a dorrwyd ar ôl methu sicrhau ffyniant economaidd. Methiannau polisi a fethodd sicrhau swyddi mawr eu hangen yn fy rhanbarth i.
Mae Gorllewin De Cymru wedi colli swyddi dirifedi dros y degawd diwethaf a mwy na hynny. Gwelsom y cyflogwyr mwyaf yn lleihau eu gweithgarwch. Cawsom addewid y byddai cyflogwyr newydd yn dod yn lle'r swyddi gweithgynhyrchu ar gyflogau uchel a gollwyd yn Sony, Ford, Visteon, 3M, Tata a llu o weithgynhyrchwyr byd-eang eraill. Yr hyn a gawsom oedd ffrwd o gynlluniau aflwyddiannus, buddsoddiad a wastraffwyd a rhesi o swyddi ar gyflogau isel mewn canolfannau galwadau. Rhoddodd pobl Cymru y gorau i wrando ar yr addewidion a dorrwyd. A oes unrhyw ryfedd mai llai na thraean o etholwyr Gorllewin De Cymru a aeth i'r drafferth i bleidleisio yn 2016? Ledled Cymru, ailadroddir y darlun. Mae hyn wedi arwain at lefelau enfawr o ddiffyg ymddiriedaeth mewn gwleidyddiaeth, ac ni thrafferthodd dros hanner y pleidleiswyr cymwys i gymryd rhan yn etholiadau diwethaf y Senedd. A oes unrhyw ryfedd pan fo'r Weithrediaeth a'r ddeddfwrfa yn treulio llawer mwy o amser yn trafod materion cyfansoddiadol haniaethol nag y maent yn ei dreulio'n trafod pethau sy'n effeithio ar fywydau pobl gyffredin yng Nghymru?
Ond mae'n rhaid i ni adfer ffydd mewn gwleidyddiaeth a ffydd yn y sefydliadau. A gallwn ddechrau gwneud hynny pan fyddwn yn cyflawni'r addewidion a roddwyd i bobl Cymru; pan fyddwn yn gwella bywydau pobl; pan fyddwn yn dileu gwastraff. Rwy'n cytuno â'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig fod angen inni sefydlu swyddfa drawsadrannol sydd wrth wraidd y Llywodraeth i sicrhau gwerth am arian, dileu gwastraff a gwneud Llywodraeth Cymru'n agored ac yn dryloyw. Mae'r mwyafrif helaeth ohonom yma i sicrhau gwelliannau i fywydau pobl Cymru, ac yn anffodus nid yw llawer gormod o'r bobl hynny yn ymddiried ynom mwyach ac mae'n rhaid i ni ailadeiladu'r ymddiriedaeth honno.
Credaf mewn datganoli a chredaf yn y Senedd y pleidleisiodd pobl Cymru drosti. A chredaf mewn gweithio gyda phob plaid i roi i bobl Cymru yr hyn y maent am ei gael i ailadeiladu eu bywydau ac i ddarparu'n well ar eu cyfer. Ac rwy'n annog yr Aelodau i gefnogi fy ngwelliant a chefnogi'r cynnig. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Galwaf ar Gareth Bennett i gynnig gwelliant 3, a gyflwynwyd yn ei enw. Gareth Bennett.
I call on Gareth Bennett to move amendment 3, tabled in his name. Gareth Bennett.
Gwelliant 3—Gareth Bennett
Dileu pwynt 4 a rhoi yn ei le:
Yn galw am refferendwm cyfrwymol ynghylch a ddylid cadw neu ddiddymu llywodraeth a senedd datganoledig Cymru, yn sgil methiannau Llywodraeth Cymru.
Amendment 3—Gareth Bennett
Delete point 4 and replace with:
Calls for a binding referendum on whether to keep or abolish the devolved government and parliament of Wales, in light of the Welsh Government’s failures.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 3.
Amendment 3 moved.
Diolch, Llywydd. Thanks to the Conservatives for bringing today's debate, and I hereby move the motion on behalf of the Abolish the Welsh Assembly Party.
I think that Angela Burns has given us an interesting account of the waste of taxpayers' money that has occurred over the past 21 years. It's even more interesting given that the Conservatives are in favour of devolution, yet the evidence of the failings of devolution is staring them in the face. The Conservatives will say that these are the failings of a particular political party—Welsh Labour—rather than the failings of an institution, yet the danger is that in bringing this motion, they're unwittingly giving us a full-blooded critique of devolution itself. I suppose it depends how seriously we take the Conservatives' stated solution to the problem of wasting taxpayers' money, which is to establish what they call a cross-departmental office. Well, we didn't get a lot of detail on this, and I do wonder who would be in it. Do the Conservatives really imagine that the people running this office would be any different in mindset from the people whose spending they are scrutinising? I think I heard Angela say that the new office would be called OGRE, and I fear it would be a bit of an ogre. It's a bit like the old joke about politicians working out how to cut down the number of committees so they set up a committee to look into it. And that's all this cross-departmental office would be: another committee. We already have too many of those.
So, has devolution achieved anything? Well, the Labour Government's amendment gives us a list of achievements, which doesn't, in my eyes, amount to an awful lot. Their amendment today cites free prescriptions, for instance. Yes, we have free prescriptions, but we have a health service that barely functions. Five out of the seven health boards in Wales are in some kind of special measures, with Betsi Cadwaladr in north Wales having been in this position for five long years. I know that the health service in England has its problems too, but they don't seem to be on the same scale as here in Wales. All the evidence is that devolution has given us a health service that is markedly worse than the one we had before. In one case, we had patients who could no longer even go to their local hospital, the Countess in Chester, because the hospital was refusing to admit any more patients from Wales until the Welsh Government had paid the bill. This kind of episode simply wouldn't have happened before we had devolution.
What of the economic benefits that the people of Wales were promised that devolution would bring? Well, in 2003, Edwina Hart, then a senior Labour Minister, told us that poverty in Wales would be eradicated through her Communities First schemes. Fifteen years later, these schemes were finally abandoned. The Welsh Government was unable to cite any evidence that the areas contained within the schemes had derived any economic advantage from having them. This amounts to a waste of millions of pounds of taxpayers' money. As for eradicating poverty, well, what about the promise to raise Wales's GDP to 90 per cent of the average UK GDP by 2010? We never remotely looked like achieving this, and the Welsh Government had to do what it usually does with its targets—it abandons them.
One area where we have definitely gone backwards is inward investment. When we had the Welsh Development Agency, Wales punched above its weight and attracted more than 20 per cent of all UK inward investment. Under devolution, the WDA was scrapped so that we could have, instead, a committee of bureaucrats directly answerable to the Welsh Government. The result is that inward investment has plummeted and it's now only 2 per cent of that of the UK. This is a perfect example of how devolution has actually delivered decline in Wales rather than resurgence.
Can I also mention the M4 relief road that was cited by Angela? There was a choice between two routes, but the Welsh Government opted not for one or the other, but rather not to build the road at all. This after wasting more than £150 million of taxpayers' money on the project. Oddly, one of the grounds on which the Welsh Government cancelled the scheme was its cost, yet now that the UK Government are offering to get involved, the Welsh Government are so obsessive about protecting their rights as a devolved Government that they are rejecting the offer of assistance. The people of Wales end up with £100 million of their money wasted and a road system that still doesn't get them out of the Brynglas tunnels. Please ask yourself: has devolution really done anything at all to improve the Welsh economy? All it has done has been to waste money.
No, while I agree with the sentiments of much of the Conservative motion, I feel an easier method would simply be to give the Welsh public a chance to evaluate what has happened over the past 21 years and to vote to abandon the whole failed project of devolution. What we need is another referendum, with the people of Wales being given the option to abolish the Welsh Parliament and Government. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Diolch, Lywydd. Diolch i'r Ceidwadwyr am gyflwyno'r ddadl heddiw, a thrwy hyn cyflwynaf y cynnig ar ran Plaid Diddymu Cynulliad Cymru.
Credaf fod Angela Burns wedi rhoi cyfrif diddorol inni o'r arian trethdalwyr a wastraffwyd dros yr 21 mlynedd diwethaf. Mae hyd yn oed yn fwy diddorol o gofio bod y Ceidwadwyr o blaid datganoli, ac eto mae'r dystiolaeth ynglŷn â methiannau datganoli yn amlwg iawn. Bydd y Ceidwadwyr yn dweud mai methiannau plaid wleidyddol benodol ydynt—Llafur Cymru—yn hytrach na methiannau sefydliad, ac eto y perygl yw eu bod, drwy gyflwyno'r cynnig hwn, yn ddiarwybod yn rhoi beirniadaeth lawn o ddatganoli ei hun i ni. Mae'n debyg ei fod yn dibynnu pa mor ddifrifol rydym yn cymryd ateb datganedig y Ceidwadwyr i'r broblem o wastraffu arian trethdalwyr, sef sefydlu'r hyn y maent yn ei alw'n swyddfa drawsadrannol. Wel, ni chawsom lawer o fanylion yn ei chylch, ac rwy'n meddwl tybed pwy fyddai ynddi. A yw'r Ceidwadwyr yn dychmygu o ddifrif y byddai'r bobl sy'n rhedeg y swyddfa hon yn wahanol o ran meddylfryd i'r bobl y maent yn craffu ar eu gwariant? Credaf i mi glywed Angela yn dweud y byddai'r swyddfa newydd yn cael ei galw'n OGRE, ac rwy'n ofni mai tipyn o fwgan fyddai hi. Mae'n debyg i'r hen jôc am wleidyddion yn ceisio datrys sut i leihau nifer y pwyllgorau drwy sefydlu pwyllgor i ymchwilio i'r mater. A dyna'r cyfan fyddai'r swyddfa drawsadrannol hon: pwyllgor arall. Mae gennym ormod o'r rheini yn barod.
Felly, a yw datganoli wedi cyflawni unrhyw beth? Wel, mae gwelliant y Llywodraeth Lafur yn rhoi rhestr o gyflawniadau i ni, rhestr nad yw'n hir iawn yn fy marn i. Mae eu gwelliant heddiw'n cyfeirio at bresgripsiynau am ddim, er enghraifft. Oes, mae gennym bresgripsiynau am ddim, ond mae gennym wasanaeth iechyd sydd prin yn weithredol. Mae pump o'r saith bwrdd iechyd yng Nghymru dan ryw fath o fesurau arbennig, gyda Betsi Cadwaladr yng ngogledd Cymru wedi bod yn y sefyllfa honno ers pum mlynedd hir. Gwn fod problemau gan y gwasanaeth iechyd yn Lloegr hefyd, ond nid yw'n ymddangos eu bod ar yr un raddfa ag yma yng Nghymru. Mae'r holl dystiolaeth yn dangos bod datganoli wedi rhoi gwasanaeth iechyd inni sy'n waeth o lawer na'r un a oedd gennym o'r blaen. Mewn un achos, roedd gennym gleifion na allent fynd i'w hysbyty lleol hyd yn oed, Ysbyty Iarlles Caer, oherwydd bod yr ysbyty'n gwrthod derbyn rhagor o gleifion o Gymru nes bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi talu'r bil. Ni fyddai'r math hwnnw o beth wedi digwydd cyn i ni gael datganoli.
Beth am y manteision economaidd yr addawyd i bobl Cymru y byddai datganoli'n eu cynnig? Wel, yn 2003, dywedwyd wrthym gan Edwina Hart, Gweinidog Llafur blaenllaw ar y pryd, y byddai tlodi yng Nghymru yn cael ei ddileu drwy ei chynlluniau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf. Bymtheg mlynedd yn ddiweddarach, rhoddwyd y gorau i'r cynlluniau hyn o'r diwedd. Nid oedd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gallu nodi unrhyw dystiolaeth fod yr ardaloedd a gafodd eu cynnwys yn y cynlluniau wedi cael unrhyw fantais economaidd ohonynt. Mae'n wastraff o filiynau o bunnoedd o arian trethdalwyr. Ac ar ddileu tlodi, wel, beth am yr addewid i godi cynnyrch domestig gros Cymru i 90 y cant o gynnyrch domestig gros cyfartalog y DU erbyn 2010? Ni fuom erioed yn agos at gyflawni hyn, a bu'n rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru wneud yr hyn y mae'n ei wneud fel arfer gyda'i thargedau—mae'n rhoi'r gorau iddynt.
Un maes lle'r ydym yn bendant wedi mynd tuag yn ôl yw mewnfuddsoddi. Pan oedd gennym Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, roedd Cymru'n gwneud yn well na'r disgwyl a denai fwy nag 20 y cant o holl fewnfuddsoddiad y DU. O dan ddatganoli, cafodd Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru ei ddiddymu er mwyn inni allu gael pwyllgor o fiwrocratiaid yn lle hynny sy'n uniongyrchol atebol i Lywodraeth Cymru. Y canlyniad yw bod mewnfuddsoddi wedi plymio a dim ond 2 y cant o fewnfuddsoddiad y DU mae'n ei ddenu erbyn hyn. Mae hon yn enghraifft berffaith o'r ffordd y mae datganoli wedi arwain at ddirywiad yng Nghymru yn hytrach nag atgyfodiad.
A gaf fi sôn hefyd am ffordd liniaru'r M4 y soniodd Angela amdani? Roedd dewis rhwng dau lwybr, ond ni ddewisodd Llywodraeth Cymru y naill na'r llall, a dewis peidio ag adeiladu'r ffordd o gwbl yn lle hynny. A hynny ar ôl gwastraffu mwy na £150 miliwn o arian trethdalwyr ar y prosiect. Yn rhyfedd iawn, un o'r rhesymau a roddwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru dros ddiddymu'r cynllun oedd ei gost, ac eto gyda Llywodraeth y DU bellach yn cynnig dod yn rhan o hyn, mae Llywodraeth Cymru mor obsesiynol ynglŷn â diogelu ei hawliau fel Llywodraeth ddatganoledig fel ei bod yn gwrthod y cynnig o gymorth. Yn y pen draw, yr hyn a gafodd pobl Cymru oedd £100 miliwn o arian wedi'i wastraffu a system ffordd sy'n dal i fethu dod â hwy allan o dwnelau Bryn-glas. Gofynnwch i chi'ch hun: a yw datganoli wedi gwneud unrhyw beth o gwbl i wella economi Cymru? Y cyfan y mae wedi'i wneud yw gwastraffu arian.
Na, er fy mod yn cytuno â llawer o'r teimladau yng nghynnig y Ceidwadwyr, teimlaf mai dull haws fyddai rhoi cyfle i'r cyhoedd yng Nghymru werthuso'r hyn sydd wedi digwydd dros yr 21 mlynedd diwethaf a phleidleisio dros roi'r gorau i holl brosiect aflwyddiannus datganoli. Yr hyn sydd ei angen yw refferendwm arall, gyda phobl Cymru'n cael dewis i ddiddymu Senedd a Llywodraeth Cymru. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
[Anghlywadwy.]—i gynnig gwelliant 4 a gyflwynwyd yn ei enw. Neil McEvoy.
I call on Neil McEvoy to move amendment 4, tabled in his name.
Gwelliant 4—Neil McEvoy
Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:
Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau gwerth am arian drwy:
a) cydnabod bod adnoddau cyhoeddus yn cael eu gwastraffu yn y trydydd sector preifat, drwy ddyblygu a rheoli pendrwm;
b) democrateiddio'r gwasanaethau a ddarperir drwy ailgyfeirio cyllid i lywodraeth leol yng Nghymru.
Amendment 4—Neil McEvoy
Add as new point at end of motion:
Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure value for money by:
a) recognising the waste of public resource in the private third sector, through duplication and top-heavy management;
b) democratising service provision through redirecting funding to local government in Wales.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 4.
Amendment 4 moved.
Diolch, Llywydd. I campaigned for a Welsh Parliament all my adult life because I believe in this institution, I believe in the potential that we have here. I've just listened to Abolish the Welsh Assembly, and not a single idea in the whole speech, just a criticism of the institution, when really the criticism should have been directed at the Governments since 1999. I just find it really odd that some people would prefer to be governed by another country.
I'll say to the people sat to the right of the Presiding Officer that Margaret Thatcher got me into politics when I was younger, because I disagreed with almost every single thing she was doing. Quangos: we had the quango state in Wales, and it was a question of who you knew, rather than what you knew. I remember, I was in the Labour Party in those days, campaigning with colleagues against that very undemocratic system of appointing people into jobs that most of us thought they didn't really deserve. And then we had the Welsh Assembly in 1999, now the Welsh Parliament, and some of the very same people I campaigned with have supported doing exactly the same thing, where you have the cartel in Cardiff Bay, led by Labour, propped up occasionally by Plaid and the Liberal Democrats as their helpers, and they have created a self-serving bureaucracy.
This is the point of our amendment, because we're calling on the Welsh Government to ensure value for money by recognising the waste of public resources in the private—that's a key word—private third sector through duplication and top-heavy management. What we're proposing is a democratisation of service by redirecting funding to local government in Wales.
If you look at the very bloated third sector, chief executive after chief executive on huge salaries. If you look at the housing sector, the last time I checked there were 48 different organisations being funded by the Welsh Government, people supposedly fighting homelessness, and yet their £90,000 a year paycheck relies on people being homeless, so do they really want to solve the problem? I would argue not, because what Labour's created in Wales is a poverty industry. A poverty industry. If you look at care, the care industry now, where it's an industry to look after children, and Labour has been pretty clever politically, because they've privatised that whole service area. Eighty per cent of children now are looked after by private companies in Wales.
What we need is to see an end to this culture of canapés in the Senedd. You see the people coming in, the Labour boys and the Labour girls—jobs for the boys, jobs for the girls, Labour largesse and cronyism. Exactly what I campaigned against as a kid in the 1980s, we now see happening in the Welsh Parliament. And when I talk about the third sector, let me be absolutely clear, I am not talking about front-line workers, very, very often on low pay—poverty pay in some circumstances—with fewer rights than they would have working for a local authority.
It doesn't have to be this way. At the WNP we believe in meritocracy, we believe in equality of opportunity, people working hard and succeeding. We need to re-democratise our country and vote out of existence this cosy consensus. We need to give our democratically elected colleagues in local government the tools and the finance to provide services for our people, and we have to stop making profits in Wales out of the vulnerable. I think of children's services departments, where you see social workers rushed off their feet, with mountains of work, a lack of money, and then you see millions upon millions wasted on top-heavy management, chief executive after chief executive, so-called charities that are publicly funded and yet, at that front line of local government, people are really, really struggling.
The people have been taken for a ride by the Labour Party in Wales, and it's time to derail the gravy train. That's exactly what the WNP aims to do. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch, Lywydd. Ymgyrchais dros Senedd Cymru drwy gydol fy mywyd fel oedolyn oherwydd fy mod yn credu yn y sefydliad hwn, rwy'n credu yn y potensial sydd gennym yma. Rwyf newydd wrando ar Blaid Diddymu Cynulliad Cymru, ac ni chafwyd un syniad yn yr araith gyfan, dim ond beirniadaeth o'r sefydliad, pan ddylai'r feirniadaeth fod wedi'i chyfeirio at y Llywodraethau ers 1999. Rwy'n ei chael yn rhyfedd iawn y byddai'n well gan rai pobl gael eu llywodraethu gan wlad arall.
Fe ddywedaf wrth y bobl sy'n eistedd ar law dde'r Llywydd mai Margaret Thatcher a wnaeth i mi droi at fyd gwleidyddiaeth pan oeddwn yn iau, oherwydd fy mod yn anghytuno â bron bob peth a wnâi. Cwangos: roedd gennym wladwriaeth gwango yng Nghymru, ac roedd yn fater o bwy roeddech chi'n ei adnabod yn hytrach na'r hyn roeddech chi'n ei wybod. Roeddwn yn y Blaid Lafur yn y dyddiau hynny, yn ymgyrchu gyda chydweithwyr yn erbyn y system annemocrataidd o benodi pobl i swyddi y credai'r rhan fwyaf ohonom nad oeddent yn eu haeddu mewn gwirionedd. Ac yna cawsom Gynulliad Cymru yn 1999, Senedd Cymru erbyn hyn, ac mae rhai o'r bobl yr ymgyrchwn gyda hwy wedi cefnogi gwneud yr un peth yn union, lle mae gennych y cartel ym Mae Caerdydd dan arweiniad Llafur, wedi'i gynnal o bryd i'w gilydd gan Blaid Cymru a'r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol fel eu cynorthwywyr, ac maent wedi creu biwrocratiaeth hunanlesol.
Dyma bwynt ein gwelliant, oherwydd rydym yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau gwerth am arian drwy gydnabod bod adnoddau cyhoeddus yn cael eu gwastraffu yn y trydydd sector preifat—mae hwnnw'n air allweddol—drwy ddyblygu a rheoli pendrwm. Yr hyn rydym yn ei gynnig yw democrateiddio gwasanaethau drwy ailgyfeirio cyllid i lywodraeth leol yng Nghymru.
Os edrychwch ar y trydydd sector tra chwyddedig, fe welwch brif weithredwr ar ôl prif weithredwr ar gyflogau enfawr. Os edrychwch ar y sector tai, y tro diwethaf i mi edrych, roedd 48 o wahanol sefydliadau'n cael eu hariannu gan Lywodraeth Cymru, pobl sy'n honni eu bod yn ymladd digartrefedd, ac eto mae eu cyflogau £90,000 y flwyddyn yn dibynnu ar bobl ddigartref, felly a ydynt am ddatrys y broblem mewn gwirionedd? Byddwn yn dadlau nad ydynt, oherwydd yr hyn y mae Llafur wedi'i greu yng Nghymru yw diwydiant tlodi. Diwydiant tlodi. Os edrychwch ar ofal, y diwydiant gofal yn awr, lle mae'n ddiwydiant gofalu am blant, ac mae Llafur wedi bod yn eithaf clyfar yn wleidyddol, oherwydd maent wedi preifateiddio'r maes gwasanaeth hwnnw yn ei gyfanrwydd. Mae 80 y cant o blant bellach yn derbyn gofal gan gwmnïau preifat yng Nghymru.
Yr hyn sydd ei angen yw diwedd ar y diwylliant canapés yn y Senedd. Fe welwch y bobl yn dod i mewn, y bechgyn Llafur a'r merched Llafur—swyddi i'r bechgyn, swyddi i'r merched, haelioni a ffrindgarwch Llafur. Gwelwn yr union beth yr ymgyrchais yn ei erbyn fel plentyn yn y 1980au yn digwydd yn awr yn Senedd Cymru. A phan soniaf am y trydydd sector, gadewch i mi fod yn gwbl glir, nid wyf yn sôn am y gweithwyr rheng flaen, sy'n aml iawn ar gyflogau isel—tâl tlodi mewn rhai amgylchiadau—gyda llai o hawliau nag a fyddai ganddynt wrth weithio i awdurdod lleol.
Nid oes raid iddi fod fel hyn. Ym Mhlaid Genedlaethol Cymru, credwn mewn meritocratiaeth, credwn mewn cyfle cyfartal, pobl yn gweithio'n galed ac yn llwyddo. Rhaid inni ail-ddemocrateiddio ein gwlad a phleidleisio yn erbyn y consensws cysurus hwn. Mae angen inni roi adnoddau a chyllid i'n cymheiriaid llywodraeth leol a etholwyd yn ddemocrataidd i ddarparu gwasanaethau i'n pobl, a rhaid inni roi'r gorau i wneud elw yng Nghymru ar draul y rhai sy'n agored i niwed. Rwy'n meddwl am adrannau gwasanaethau plant, lle gwelwch weithwyr cymdeithasol wrthi fel lladd nadredd, gyda mynydd o waith, diffyg arian, ac yna fe welwch filiynau ar filiynau'n cael ei wastraffu ar reoli pendrwm, prif weithredwr ar ôl prif weithredwr, elusennau honedig sy'n cael eu hariannu'n gyhoeddus ac eto, yn rheng flaen llywodraeth leol, mae pobl yn ei chael hi'n anodd dros ben.
Mae'r bobl wedi cael eu twyllo gan y Blaid Lafur yng Nghymru, ac mae'n bryd rhoi stop ar y trên grefi. Dyna'n union yw nod Plaid Genedlaethol Cymru. Diolch yn fawr.
I'm pleased to contribute to this debate. At the very heart of any Government must be a commitment to continually review its own structures and processes to ensure that they're fit for purpose and delivering value for money for the taxpayer. Every Government must be able to look at itself critically and think about how it can deliver services efficiently and effectively. To see the improvements in our public services that we all want, we have to question how decisions are being made, how resources are being allocated, and we need to identify waste. Now, earlier this year I made a commitment to the people of Wales that, should I lead a future Welsh Government, as Angela Burns said, I would establish an office of Government resilience and efficiency. The whole point of establishing that office is to create an arm's-length, independent body that could identify where resources are being wasted and where Government processes are failing to deliver improvements to our public services.
Members can all point to examples of Government projects and schemes that have been delayed and over budget. For example, this year, Audit Wales has issued a number of reports on Welsh Government infrastructure project overspends, including the A465 Heads of the Valleys road and the £60 million overspend on removal of asbestos at Glan Clwyd Hospital. These reports once again highlight the lack of sufficient mechanisms within the Welsh Government to properly plan and deliver long-term projects. Nobody is disputing the merits of delivering the A465 Heads of the Valleys road, for example. Indeed, sometimes we can overlook the wider social benefits of developing infrastructure projects across Wales, and so it's worth reiterating that good infrastructure development, when it's delivered properly, has the ability to transform how we live and work in so many ways. Well-crafted and developed infrastructure can better connect us to essential goods and services, it can provide better living conditions, better schools for our children, and it can also provide jobs throughout the construction phase and along the supply chain. Therefore, perhaps, in responding to today's debate, the Minister will tell us how the Welsh Government is measuring the social benefits of each individual project in its pipeline, and perhaps the Minister can also tell us how the Welsh Government measures the social benefits of a project when it allocates that funding.
My colleague Angela Burns has already talked about millions and millions of pounds a year that have been wasted that could be spent delivering infrastructure to better support communities right across the country. That's valuable funding that could be used to widen roads, improve schools or build houses. Sadly, there have been countless reports over the years of projects that have shown waste in the form of overspending, investment losses and financial irregularities. Financial waste is one thing, but it's only one piece of the puzzle, and we also need to better examine our systems too. Procurement has long been a challenge for consultants and constructors, and I'm very much aware from the discussion that I've had over the years that that process needs to be streamlined, and that the information requirements have sometime been disproportional to the value of the bid. Therefore, we have to seriously look at developing a holistic approach to delivering improvements in procurement so that, as a Government, we can maximise our spend. I'm also aware that there is a need for regular engagement and communication between partners at all stages of development. Is the Welsh Government really asking itself whether the tendering process is working as well as it can be? What after-support and discussion is there for those who've worked hard on Government projects only for the project to be pulled? These are the sorts of issues that the Government needs to better understand so that the system can be improved for the better. Therefore, I hope that, in responding to today's debate, the Minister will take the opportunity to update Members on how the Welsh Government is monitoring the effectiveness of its procurement policies, and how it's critically evaluating the way it delivers infrastructure projects.
Llywydd, I believe that a cultural change is needed to really deliver improvements in our public service delivery here in Wales. I've made it clear that I'm committed to radically reforming how Government operates and how public services in Wales are delivered, and ultimately what the people of Wales want to see is an end to silo working, a much more conscious effort to eradicate waste, and to see their hard-earned money being used effectively to deliver transformational projects.
Now, there are plenty of examples of public sector oversight across the world, and we need to learn from the way other Governments have operated and see where we can adapt those practices here. For example, in New Zealand, the policy advisory group was established to provide politically impartial, free and frank advice to the Prime Minister and other Ministers. In a similar way, the office of Government resilience and efficiency would have the same role at the heart of decision making, but also the teeth to work across the public service and with other key stakeholders to root out inefficiencies.
Therefore, in closing, Llywydd, in order to drive forward improvements in our public services and deliver successful infrastructure projects across Wales, we have to commit to re-examining our spend and our processes. I believe that's best done by creating an office of Government resilience and efficiency—an office that can help transform the way our services are delivered and that drives the type of cultural change that the people of Wales want to see. I therefore urge Members to support our motion.
Rwy'n falch o gyfrannu at y ddadl hon. Wrth wraidd unrhyw Lywodraeth, rhaid cael ymrwymiad i adolygu ei strwythurau a'i phrosesau ei hun yn barhaus er mwyn sicrhau eu bod yn addas at y diben ac yn sicrhau gwerth am arian i'r trethdalwr. Rhaid i bob Llywodraeth allu edrych arni'i hun yn feirniadol a meddwl sut y gall ddarparu gwasanaethau'n effeithlon ac yn effeithiol. I weld y gwelliannau yn ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus y mae pawb ohonom am eu cael, rhaid inni gwestiynu sut y gwneir penderfyniadau, sut y dyrennir adnoddau, ac mae angen inni nodi gwastraff. Nawr, yn gynharach eleni, gwneuthum ymrwymiad i bobl Cymru, pe bawn yn arwain Llywodraeth Cymru yn y dyfodol, fel y dywedodd Angela Burns, y byddwn yn sefydlu swyddfa cadernid ac effeithlonrwydd Llywodraeth. Holl bwynt sefydlu'r swyddfa honno yw creu corff annibynnol hyd braich a allai nodi lle mae adnoddau'n cael eu gwastraffu a lle mae prosesau Llywodraeth yn methu sicrhau gwelliannau i'n gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.
Gall yr Aelodau i gyd nodi enghreifftiau o brosiectau a chynlluniau Llywodraeth lle gwelwyd oedi a gorwario. Er enghraifft, eleni, mae Archwilio Cymru wedi cyhoeddi nifer o adroddiadau ar orwariant Llywodraeth Cymru ar brosiectau seilwaith, gan gynnwys ffordd yr A465 Blaenau'r Cymoedd a'r gorwariant o £60 miliwn ar gael gwared ar asbestos yn Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. Mae'r adroddiadau hyn unwaith eto'n tynnu sylw at ddiffyg mecanweithiau digonol o fewn Llywodraeth Cymru i gynllunio a chyflawni prosiectau hirdymor yn briodol. Nid oes neb yn anghytuno â rhinweddau darparu ffordd yr A465 Blaenau'r Cymoedd, er enghraifft. Yn wir, weithiau gallwn fethu gweld manteision cymdeithasol ehangach datblygu prosiectau seilwaith ledled Cymru, ac felly mae'n werth ailadrodd bod datblygu seilwaith da, pan gaiff ei gyflawni'n iawn, yn gallu trawsnewid y ffordd rydym yn byw ac yn gweithio mewn cynifer o ffyrdd. Gall seilwaith sydd wedi'i lunio a'i ddatblygu'n dda ein cysylltu'n well â nwyddau a gwasanaethau hanfodol, gall ddarparu gwell amodau byw, gwell ysgolion i'n plant, a gall hefyd ddarparu swyddi drwy gydol y cyfnod adeiladu ac ar hyd y gadwyn gyflenwi. Felly, wrth ymateb i'r ddadl heddiw, efallai y gall y Gweinidog ddweud wrthym sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn mesur manteision cymdeithasol pob prosiect unigol sydd ar y gweill, ac efallai y gall y Gweinidog ddweud wrthym hefyd sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn mesur manteision cymdeithasol prosiect pan fo'n dyrannu'r cyllid hwnnw.
Mae fy nghyd-Aelod Angela Burns eisoes wedi sôn am filiynau a miliynau o bunnoedd y flwyddyn o arian a wastraffwyd y gellid bod wedi'i wario'n darparu seilwaith i gefnogi cymunedau'n well ledled y wlad. Mae hwnnw'n gyllid gwerthfawr y gellid ei ddefnyddio i ledu ffyrdd, gwella ysgolion neu adeiladu tai. Yn anffodus, cafwyd adroddiadau di-rif dros y blynyddoedd am brosiectau sydd wedi dangos gwastraff ar ffurf gorwario, colledion buddsoddi ac afreoleidd-dra ariannol. Un peth yw gwastraff ariannol, ond dim ond un darn o'r jig-so ydyw, ac mae angen inni archwilio ein systemau'n well hefyd. Mae caffael wedi bod yn her ers tro byd i ymgynghorwyr ac adeiladwyr, ac rwy'n ymwybodol iawn o'r drafodaeth a gefais dros y blynyddoedd fod angen symleiddio'r broses honno, ac ar adegau fod y galw am wybodaeth wedi bod yn anghymesur â gwerth y cais. Felly, rhaid inni edrych o ddifrif ar ddatblygu dull cyfannol o sicrhau gwelliannau yn y broses gaffael fel y gallwn, fel Llywodraeth, wneud y mwyaf o'n gwariant. Rwyf hefyd yn ymwybodol fod angen ymgysylltu a chyfathrebu rheolaidd rhwng partneriaid ar bob cam datblygu. A yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn gofyn iddi hi ei hun a yw'r broses dendro'n gweithio cystal ag y gall? Pa ôl-gymorth dilynol a thrafodaeth a geir i'r rhai sydd wedi gweithio'n galed ar brosiectau'r Llywodraeth cyn i'r prosiect gael ei ddiddymu? Dyma'r math o faterion y mae angen i'r Llywodraeth eu deall yn well fel y gellir gwella'r system er gwell. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio, wrth ymateb i'r ddadl heddiw, y bydd y Gweinidog yn manteisio ar y cyfle i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Aelodau ynglŷn â sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn monitro effeithiolrwydd ei pholisïau caffael, a sut y mae'n gwerthuso'n feirniadol y ffordd y mae'n cyflawni prosiectau seilwaith.
Lywydd, credaf fod angen newid diwylliannol i sicrhau gwelliannau go iawn yn y modd y caiff gwasanaethau cyhoeddus eu darparu yma yng Nghymru. Rwyf wedi dweud yn glir fy mod wedi ymrwymo i ddiwygio'n sylweddol y modd y mae'r Llywodraeth yn gweithredu a sut y caiff gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru eu darparu, ac yn y pen draw yr hyn y mae pobl Cymru am ei weld yw diwedd ar weithio mewn seilos, ymdrech lawer mwy ymwybodol i ddileu gwastraff, a gweld eu harian y maent wedi gweithio'n galed amdano'n cael ei ddefnyddio'n effeithiol i gyflawni prosiectau trawsnewidiol.
Nawr, ceir digon o enghreifftiau o drosolwg sector cyhoeddus ledled y byd, ac mae angen inni ddysgu o'r ffordd y mae Llywodraethau eraill wedi gweithredu a gweld ble y gallwn addasu'r arferion hynny yma. Er enghraifft, yn Seland Newydd, sefydlwyd y grŵp cynghori ar bolisi i roi cyngor gwleidyddol diduedd, di-dâl a gonest i'r Prif Weinidog a Gweinidogion eraill. Yn yr un modd, byddai gan swyddfa cadernid ac effeithlonrwydd Llywodraeth yr un rôl wrth wraidd y broses o wneud penderfyniadau, ond hefyd byddai ganddi ddannedd i weithio ar draws gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a chyda rhanddeiliaid allweddol eraill i gael gwared ar aneffeithlonrwydd.
Felly, wrth gloi, Lywydd, er mwyn bwrw ymlaen â gwelliannau yn ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a chyflawni prosiectau seilwaith llwyddiannus ledled Cymru, rhaid inni ymrwymo i ailedrych ar ein gwariant a'n prosesau. Credaf mai'r ffordd orau o wneud hynny yw drwy greu swyddfa cadernid ac effeithlonrwydd Llywodraeth—swyddfa a all helpu i drawsnewid y ffordd y caiff ein gwasanaethau eu darparu a sbarduno'r math o newid diwylliannol y mae pobl Cymru am ei weld. Felly, rwy'n annog yr Aelodau i gefnogi ein cynnig.
I speak in this debate to support amendment 1, tabled by Rebecca Evans, and in particular point 1, which notes the poor value for money represented by austerity economics, as highlighted by the UN criticism of UK poverty.
Angela Burns and her Conservative colleagues would need the skills not of Job but Jackanory to explain how the Cameron and Osborne devastating austerity project, alongside May's magic money tree, has somehow morphed into the UK Tory Government borrowing just under £174 billion between April and August. We on the Welsh Labour benches will take no economic lessons from the Conservatives. In a decade, they have shape-shifted from the economic piety of Ebenezer Scrooge to the economic policies of a national lottery winner in Las Vegas. So, the Tories can stop—please just stop your lecturing to the people of Wales and the Members of this Senedd about your superiority and fidelity to value for money for taxpayers because—[Interruption.]
I draw Members' attention to amendment 1, point 3, which welcomes the progress made in delivering innovative Welsh Government policies—free prescriptions, Jobs Growth Wales, presumed consent for organ donation, the single cancer pathway, the childcare offer, the doubling of the capital limit, twenty-first century schools, and the economic resilience fund. I could go on, but let me be succinct: the Tories understand the price of everything and the value of nothing, and it is Welsh Labour who the people of Wales trust with the public sector and with fiscal propriety to protect, nurture and grow Wales because the strong fiscal discipline and vision for Wales that we implement flies in the very face of a whole decade of evidenced UK Tory Government policy, as they continue to squeeze the Welsh public budget until the pips squeak. Wales is now £4 billion worse off since they came to office, and we work to counter this every day, and it is why they are desperate to weaken devolution and weaken this place.
The Tory UK Government has so far spent £57 million and rising in consultancy contracts—too many to mention. Deloitte is doing very well—£6.7 million in contracts, a further £3 million for providing to the Cabinet Office, and £2.5 million in contracts from the Tory Treasury—and PricewaterhouseCoopers, £3 million in consultancy. I could go on. So, the Tory approach to supervising taxpayers' money is deeply worrying, but it is no different to the way successive Tory Governments have always behaved, with the sell-off of our national industries, the break-up of our public sector and public services, and a desire to erode and grind down local government for privatisation. In contrast, here, the Welsh Labour Government in Wales strengthens and maintains our public service ethos. It is at its very core and central to our very being. In Wales, 'not for profit' means something.
Finally, let me return to the UK Tory Government borrowing just under £174 billion between April and August. In those four short months of summer, the Tories borrowed more than the UK Labour Government borrowed in the whole of the financial year when the Labour Government bailed out the banks and saved the economy from ruin. And that is important, because do you remember, in this very place, the endless goading from the Tory benches of fixing the roof when the sun shone, of them saying Labour had spent all the money, and that this, colleagues, was the only reason used to fulfil their deep ideological desire to shrink the state with a decade of austerity, and for what? In four months, they borrowed more than the Labour Government in an entire year. Yet again, typical Tories at the height of hypocrisy. Llywydd, they seek to claim the monopoly on economic competence, yet the Welsh people know they would not trust the Tories to sell them a second-hand banger, let alone trust them to manage our public finances. Thank you.
Siaradaf yn y ddadl hon i gefnogi gwelliant 1, a gyflwynwyd gan Rebecca Evans, ac yn benodol am bwynt 1, sy'n nodi'r gwerth gwael am arian a gynigir gan economeg cyni, fel yr amlygwyd ym meirniadaeth y Cenhedloedd Unedig o dlodi'r DU.
Byddai angen sgiliau Jackanory, nid rhai Job, ar Angela Burns a'i chyd-Aelodau Ceidwadol i egluro sut y mae prosiect cyni dinistriol Cameron ac Osborne, ochr yn ochr â choeden arian hud May, rywsut wedi troi'n Llywodraeth Dorïaidd y DU yn benthyg ychydig o dan £174 biliwn rhwng mis Ebrill a mis Awst. Ni fyddwn ni ar feinciau Llafur Cymru yn cymryd unrhyw wersi ar economeg gan y Ceidwadwyr. Mewn degawd, maent wedi symud o gynildeb economaidd Ebenezer Scrooge at bolisïau economaidd enillydd loteri cenedlaethol yn Las Vegas. Felly, gall y Torïaid roi'r gorau iddi—rhowch y gorau i'ch pregethu wrth bobl Cymru ac wrth yr Aelodau o'r Senedd hon am eich uwchraddoldeb a'ch ymrwymiad i werth am arian i drethdalwyr oherwydd—[Torri ar draws.]
Rwy'n tynnu sylw'r Aelodau at welliant 1, pwynt 3, sy'n croesawu'r cynnydd a wnaed wrth gyflawni polisïau arloesol Llywodraeth Cymru—presgripsiynau am ddim, Twf Swyddi Cymru, caniatâd tybiedig ar gyfer rhoi organau, un llwybr canser, y cynnig gofal plant, dyblu'r terfyn cyfalaf, ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, a'r gronfa cadernid economaidd. Gallwn fynd ymlaen, ond gadewch i mi fod yn gryno: mae'r Torïaid yn deall pris popeth a gwerth dim byd, a Llafur Cymru yw'r blaid y mae pobl Cymru yn ymddiried ynddi gyda'r sector cyhoeddus a phriodoldeb cyllidol i ddiogelu, meithrin a thyfu Cymru oherwydd bod y ddisgyblaeth a'r weledigaeth ariannol gref i Gymru a gyflawnwn yn mynd yn groes i ddegawd cyfan o bolisi Llywodraethau Torïaidd y DU, wrth iddynt barhau i wasgu cyllideb gyhoeddus Cymru i'r eithaf. Mae Cymru bellach £4 biliwn yn waeth ei byd ers iddynt ddod i rym, a gweithiwn i wrthsefyll hyn bob dydd, a dyna pam y maent mor awyddus i wanhau datganoli a gwanhau'r lle hwn.
Hyd yma, mae Llywodraeth Dorïaidd y DU wedi gwario £57 miliwn a mwy mewn contractau ymgynghori—gormod i sôn amdanynt. Mae Deloitte yn gwneud yn dda iawn—£6.7 miliwn mewn contractau, £3 miliwn arall am ddarparu ar gyfer Swyddfa'r Cabinet, a £2.5 miliwn mewn contractau gan Drysorlys y Torïaid—a PricewaterhouseCoopers, £3 miliwn mewn ymgynghoriaeth. Gallwn fynd ymlaen. Felly, mae dull y Torïaid o oruchwylio arian trethdalwyr yn peri pryder mawr, ond nid yw'n wahanol i'r ffordd y mae Llywodraethau Torïaidd olynol bob amser wedi ymddwyn, gyda gwerthu ein diwydiannau cenedlaethol, chwalu ein sector cyhoeddus a'n gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, ac awydd i erydu llywodraeth leol a gwasgu arni i breifateiddio. Mewn cyferbyniad, yma, mae Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru yng Nghymru yn cryfhau ac yn cynnal ein hethos gwasanaeth cyhoeddus. Mae wrth wraidd ac yn ganolog i'n bodolaeth. Yng Nghymru, mae 'di-elw' yn golygu rhywbeth.
Yn olaf, gadewch imi ddychwelyd at fenthyciadau Llywodraeth Dorïaidd y DU o ychydig o dan £174 biliwn rhwng mis Ebrill a mis Awst. Yn y pedwar mis byr hynny yn yr haf, benthycodd y Torïaid fwy nag a fenthycwyd gan Lywodraeth Lafur y DU drwy gydol y flwyddyn ariannol pan achubodd y Llywodraeth Lafur y banciau ac achub yr economi rhag dinistr. Ac mae hynny'n bwysig, oherwydd, a gofiwch chi, yn yr union le hwn, y gwawdio diddiwedd oddi ar feinciau'r Torïaid am drwsio'r to pan oedd yr haul yn gwenu, a'r ffordd roeddent yn dweud bod Llafur wedi gwario'r holl arian, ac mai dyma'r unig reswm, gyfeillion, a ddefnyddiwyd i gyflawni eu hawydd ideolegol dwfn i grebachu'r wladwriaeth â degawd o gyni, ac i beth? Ymhen pedwar mis, fe wnaethant fenthyg mwy nag y gwnaeth y Llywodraeth Lafur mewn blwyddyn gyfan. Unwaith eto, dyma ragrith nodweddiadol y Torïaid. Lywydd, maent yn ceisio hawlio'r monopoli ar gymhwysedd economaidd, ac eto mae pobl Cymru'n gwybod na fyddent yn ymddiried yn y Torïaid i werthu car ail law iddynt, heb sôn am ymddiried ynddynt i reoli ein harian cyhoeddus. Diolch.
I'm pleased to contribute to this afternoon's debate, and I've got to say, just listening to that last contribution from Rhianon Passmore, I do find it a bit rich when the Welsh Labour Government have constantly called on the UK Government to provide more funding to this place and more funding for public services in Wales at the very time that they just received an extra £4 billion to support public services and the Welsh economy. We get contributions that then say that the Conservative Party is economically incompetent. You can't have it both ways, Rhianon Passmore. You can't on the one hand call for greater borrowing and greater support and then, when that is provided, turn on the hand that has given you that money. So, I, for one, and the Welsh Conservatives on this side of the Chamber, are more than happy that the UK Government is borrowing money at the moment. It is supporting the UK economy, and it is supporting the Welsh economy and people in Wales, and I think, in next year's Senedd election, the people of Wales will see that that support has been offered.
Point 1 of the motion goes to the heart of what this motion is all about: the successful management of taxpayers’ money depends on clear objectives, agreed outcomes and rigorous scrutiny. How often in this Chamber and virtually over the last few months have we spoken about the importance of building back better after the pandemic, and developing a more sustainable economy and transport infrastructure? Well, that process of building back better must involve eliminating waste, increasing efficiency and delivering value for money for the taxpayer. And let me be clear what I mean by 'value for money', because that doesn't mean always going for the cheapest option and settling for less than best. But it does mean embedding and developing an anti-waste culture at the heart of Government, ensuring that there is always a watchful eye over Government spending across departments, and one which flags up Government waste at the earliest opportunity.
I certainly don't see our proposals for a new department as working in conflict with existing mechanisms for scrutiny—far from it. I see them as complementing those existing mechanisms, including the Senedd's own Public Accounts Committee, which was referred to by Angela Burns, Audit Wales and the Future Generations Commissioner for Wales. In June 2020, Audit Wales produced a report on the Welsh Government's rural development grant scheme, finding that £53 million of grants were made without ensuring value for money or effective competition. The Auditor General for Wales found that key aspects of the design, operation and oversight of the Welsh Government controls over the programme were not effective enough to secure value for money. The failures listed included inviting funding applications from certain organisations without documenting why, giving additional funds to existing projects without first checking their success, and exercising insufficient project oversight.
There were, of course, earlier examples of lack of efficiency which have been referred to by other Members—Communities First, for instance. Communities First's strengths, including a strong brand and trusted employees, were a good thing, but, unfortunately, they were overshadowed by a lack of co-ordination and duplication of delivery work. There was a lack of an anchor to that project, and there have been similar programmes since. Quite simply, it wasn't value for money and it wasn't picked up quickly enough.
The problem doesn't just include the Welsh Government itself; it does extend to Welsh public sector bodies too, as Angela Burns mentioned. Audit Wales reported that Natural Resources Wales would have its accounts qualified as a result of its handling of timber contracts, again referred to earlier, which auditors Grant Thornton stated heightened exposure to the risk of fraud. And in January 2020, the auditor general qualified the organisation's accounts for the fourth year in a row due to doubts as to whether NRW acted in accordance with its statutory duties and public law principles.
We need to build greater resilience into the system, and that doesn't just mean financial resilience; it means resilience in data handling too. Flaws were only recently exposed in the Welsh Government's handling of personal data with the three significant data breaches culminating in the details of 18,000 individuals being posted on Public Health Wales's website for 24 hours. This included, as we know, details of nearly 2,000 care home residents.
So, it's not just a question of financial resilience; it's a question of resilience across the Welsh Government, and across the public sector, which is why we are proposing some of the changes that we've put forward. This is a motion that is basically about giving the people of Wales confidence—confidence that, when they vote, whichever party or parties form the Welsh Government, resilience and value for money will be built into that process and into that system from the start, not added as an afterthought. We need to build resilience, ensure value for money for the taxpayer, and promote, all-importantly, a new culture of efficiency. That is what this is about: increasing scrutiny and casting a light on some of the darker corners of Government, as we start on the long journey of building back better.
And in conclusion, Llywydd, Neil McEvoy said—and I agree with him—we need to reconstruct; I think you said we need to change the culture of Government, by removing the darkness—. I've got your quote quite wrong there, actually, by the way, Neil McEvoy; I should never try to quote you—you do it far more eloquently yourself. But you said that things can't go on as they were before, and we need to make sure, I believe, that we do not remove the very democracy that provides the opportunity for change that we are trying to seek.
Rwy'n falch o gyfrannu at y ddadl y prynhawn yma, ac mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud,wrth wrando ar y cyfraniad olaf gan Rhianon Passmore, rwy'n synnu at y ffordd y mae Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru wedi galw'n gyson ar Lywodraeth y DU i ddarparu mwy o arian i'r lle hwn a mwy o gyllid ar gyfer gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru ar yr union adeg y cawsant £4 biliwn ychwanegol i gefnogi gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ac economi Cymru. Cawn gyfraniadau sy'n dweud wedyn bod y Blaid Geidwadol yn anfedrus yn economaidd. Ni allwch chi ei chael hi'r ddwy ffordd, Rhianon Passmore. Ni allwch alw ar y naill law am fwy o fenthyca a mwy o gymorth a beirniadu'r llaw sydd wedi rhoi'r arian hwnnw i chi pan gaiff ei ddarparu. Felly, yn bersonol, rwyf i a'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ar yr ochr hon i'r Siambr, yn fwy na bodlon fod Llywodraeth y DU yn benthyca arian ar hyn o bryd. Mae'n cefnogi economi'r DU, ac mae'n cefnogi economi Cymru a phobl yng Nghymru, ac yn etholiad y Senedd y flwyddyn nesaf, credaf y bydd pobl Cymru'n gweld bod y cymorth hwnnw wedi'i gynnig.
Mae pwynt 1 y cynnig yn mynd at ddiben canolog y cynnig hwn: mae rheoli arian trethdalwyr yn llwyddiannus yn dibynnu ar amcanion clir, canlyniadau cytûn a chraffu trwyadl. Pa mor aml yn y Siambr hon a dros y misoedd diwethaf bron yn llwyr y buom yn sôn am bwysigrwydd adeiladu'n ôl yn well ar ôl y pandemig, a datblygu economi a seilwaith trafnidiaeth mwy cynaliadwy? Wel, rhaid i'r broses honno o adeiladu'n ôl yn well olygu cael gwared ar wastraff, cynyddu effeithlonrwydd a sicrhau gwerth am arian i'r trethdalwr. A gadewch i mi fod yn glir beth rwy'n ei olygu wrth 'werth am arian', oherwydd nid yw hynny'n golygu mynd am yr opsiwn rhataf bob amser a bodloni ar lai na'r gorau. Ond mae'n golygu ymgorffori a datblygu diwylliant gwrth-wastraff wrth wraidd y Llywodraeth, gan sicrhau bod trosolwg bob amser ar wariant y Llywodraeth ar draws adrannau, ac un sy'n tynnu sylw at wastraff y Llywodraeth cyn gynted â phosibl.
Yn sicr, nid wyf yn gweld ein cynigion ar gyfer adran newydd fel rhywbeth sy'n gwrthdaro yn erbyn y mecanweithiau craffu presennol—ymhell o fod. Credaf eu bod yn ategu'r mecanweithiau sydd gennym yn barod, gan gynnwys Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus y Senedd ei hun y cyfeiriodd Angela Burns ato, Archwilio Cymru a Chomisiynydd Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol Cymru. Ym mis Mehefin 2020, cynhyrchodd Archwilio Cymru adroddiad ar gynllun grant datblygu gwledig Llywodraeth Cymru, a chanfu fod £53 miliwn o grantiau wedi'u gwneud heb sicrhau gwerth am arian na chystadleuaeth effeithiol. Canfu Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru nad oedd agweddau allweddol ar gynllun, gweithrediad a throsolwg ar fesurau rheoli Llywodraeth Cymru dros y rhaglen yn ddigon effeithiol i sicrhau gwerth am arian. Roedd y methiannau a restrwyd yn cynnwys gwahodd ceisiadau am gyllid gan sefydliadau penodol heb ddogfennu pam, rhoi arian ychwanegol i brosiectau presennol heb wirio eu llwyddiant yn gyntaf, a dim digon o drosolwg ar brosiectau.
Wrth gwrs, cafwyd enghreifftiau cynharach o ddiffyg effeithlonrwydd y cyfeiriodd Aelodau eraill atynt—Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, er enghraifft. Roedd cryfderau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, gan gynnwys brand cryf a gweithwyr dibynadwy, yn beth da, ond yn anffodus, cawsant eu bwrw i'r cysgod gan ddiffyg cydgysylltiad a dyblygu gwaith. Nid oedd angor digonol i'r prosiect, a chafwyd rhaglenni tebyg ers hynny. Yn syml iawn, nid oedd yn rhoi gwerth am arian ac ni sylwyd ar hynny'n ddigon cyflym.
Nid problem i Lywodraeth Cymru'n unig yw hi; mae'n ymestyn i gynnwys cyrff sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru hefyd, fel y soniodd Angela Burns. Adroddodd Archwilio Cymru mai barn amodol a roddwyd ar gyfrifon Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru o ganlyniad i'w ffordd o drin contractau pren, fel y nodwyd yn gynharach unwaith eto, a dywedodd yr archwilwyr Grant Thornton fod hynny wedi eu gwneud yn fwy agored i'r risg o dwyll. Ac ym mis Ionawr 2020, rhoddodd yr archwilydd cyffredinol farn amodol ar gyfrifon y sefydliad am y bedwaredd flwyddyn yn olynol oherwydd amheuon ynglŷn ag a weithredodd Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru yn unol â'u dyletswyddau statudol a'u hegwyddorion cyfraith gyhoeddus.
Mae angen inni feithrin mwy o gadernid yn y system, ac nid yw hynny'n golygu cadernid ariannol yn unig; mae'n golygu cadernid wrth ymdrin â data hefyd. Yn ddiweddar daeth diffygion i'r amlwg yn y modd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n ymdrin â data personol gyda'r tri digwyddiad mawr o dorri cyfrinachedd data yn arwain at osod manylion 18,000 o unigolion ar wefan Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru am 24 awr. Fel y gwyddom, roedd hyn yn cynnwys manylion bron i 2,000 o breswylwyr cartrefi gofal.
Felly, nid cwestiwn o gadernid ariannol yn unig ydyw; mae'n fater o gadernid ar draws Llywodraeth Cymru, ac ar draws y sector cyhoeddus, a dyna pam ein bod yn cynnig rhai o'r newidiadau a gyflwynwyd gennym. Mae hwn yn gynnig sy'n ymwneud yn y bôn â rhoi hyder i bobl Cymru—hyder, pan fyddant yn pleidleisio, pa blaid neu bleidiau bynnag sy'n ffurfio Llywodraeth Cymru y bydd cadernid a gwerth am arian yn cael eu hadeiladu'n rhan o'r broses honno a'r system honno o'r dechrau, ac na chânt eu hychwanegu fel ôl-ystyriaeth. Mae angen inni feithrin cadernid, sicrhau gwerth am arian i'r trethdalwr, ac yn hollbwysig, hyrwyddo diwylliant newydd o effeithlonrwydd. Ymwneud â hynny y mae'r cynnig hwn: cynyddu gwaith craffu a bwrw goleuni ar rai o gorneli tywyllach y Llywodraeth, wrth inni ddechrau ar y daith hir o adeiladu'n ôl yn well.
Ac i gloi, Lywydd, dywedodd Neil McEvoy—ac rwy'n cytuno ag ef—fod angen inni ailadeiladu; rwy'n credu i chi ddweud bod angen inni newid diwylliant y Llywodraeth, drwy gael gwared ar y tywyllwch—. Rwy'n eich dyfynnu'n hollol anghywir yno, mewn gwirionedd, gyda llaw, Neil McEvoy; ni ddylwn byth geisio eich dyfynnu—rydych yn ei wneud yn llawer mwy huawdl eich hun. Ond fe ddywedoch chi na all pethau barhau fel roeddent o'r blaen, ac yn fy marn i, mae angen inni sicrhau nad ydym yn dileu'r union ddemocratiaeth sy'n rhoi'r cyfle i newid rydym yn ei geisio.
I want to focus my remarks on the economy and infrastructure and why the creation of a cross-departmental office for government resilience and efficiency is fundamental if we are to see the end of the silo working that has characterised the performance of successive Welsh Governments over the past 20 years. The establishment of the office at the heart of Government, as outlined earlier by Angela Burns, will ensure that all Government departments of central Government have a laser-like focus on working in a cross-departmental way, delivering projects that require substantial investment in transport and infrastructure on time and on budget—something that hasn't so often occurred to date. Surely, this is an ambition that can command cross-party support.
Many projects require substantial investment, and transport and infrastructure are notorious, as we all know, for running over budget, whilst taking longer and longer to complete. The list is long: the Circuit of Wales, Cardiff Airport, enterprise zones, £157 million wasted on the mothballed M4 road to nowhere. Angela Burns mentioned that £157 million. What about the £15 million spent on properties along the M4 relief road, compulsory purchased? They remain assets of the Welsh Government. But what about the legal costs and the professional fees that have been wasted in buying those properties? And we think of the two properties that were purchased just last year, two months before the Welsh Government scrapped the entire project. So one Government department buys two properties; two months later, another Government department—the First Minister's office—scraps the very project that the properties were purchased for. Isn't that an example of why we need this office?
Paul Davies mentioned a number of reports from the Wales Audit Office, or Audit Wales as it's now called—the overspends on the A465 Heads of the Valleys road, the £60 million overspend on the removal of asbestos at Glangwili hospital—highlighting the lack of sufficient mechanisms within the Welsh Government to properly plan and deliver long-term projects. Those are the words of Audit Wales, not my words: 'the lack of sufficient mechanisms within the Welsh Government'. As I've previously said in this Chamber, Presiding Officer, the Welsh Government has been guilty of a failure to properly plan for long-term delivery of road infrastructure and road improvement schemes, a failure to appropriately manage the procurement and delivery of road schemes, and a failure to support Wales's road network with appropriate levels of financing.
I remain concerned with this ongoing lack of planning to deliver infrastructure projects on time. And in spite of plenty of assurances to the contrary, we still see no change in this area. We need to start delivering responsive, high-quality, efficient and accessible public services that represent value for money for the Welsh taxpayer, by establishing an office to deliver cross-Government efficiency and public sector transformation, which has responsibility for ensuring public value, planning, performance, and supporting procurement. In my view, Presiding Officer, a new Welsh Government office for Government resilience and efficiency would be a critical friend. It would provide the clear, cross-departmental oversight and robust scrutiny that is required and is necessary to ensure that taxpayers' money is spent appropriately and is not being wasted by the Welsh Government. I urge Members to support our motion today.
Hoffwn ganolbwyntio fy sylwadau ar yr economi a'r seilwaith a pham y mae creu swyddfa drawsadrannol ar gyfer cadernid ac effeithlonrwydd Llywodraeth yn hanfodol os ydym am weld diwedd ar weithio mewn seilos fel sydd wedi nodweddu perfformiad Llywodraethau olynol yng Nghymru dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf. Bydd sefydlu'r swyddfa wrth wraidd y Llywodraeth, fel yr amlinellwyd yn gynharach gan Angela Burns, yn sicrhau bod holl adrannau'r Llywodraeth ganolog yn canolbwyntio ar weithio mewn ffordd drawsadrannol, gan gyflawni prosiectau sy'n galw am fuddsoddiad sylweddol mewn trafnidiaeth a seilwaith a hynny ar amser ac o fewn y gyllideb—rhywbeth sydd heb ddigwydd mor aml â hynny hyd yma. Does bosibl nad yw hwn yn uchelgais a all ennyn cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol.
Mae angen buddsoddiad sylweddol ar lawer o brosiectau, ac mae trafnidiaeth a seilwaith yn enwog fel y gwyddom i gyd am wario mwy na'r gyllideb, tra'n cymryd mwy a mwy o amser i'w cwblhau. Mae'r rhestr yn hir: Cylchffordd Cymru, Maes Awyr Caerdydd, ardaloedd menter, £157 miliwn wedi'i wastraffu ar ffordd yr M4 sy'n mynd i unman. Soniodd Angela Burns am y £157 miliwn hwnnw. Beth am y £15 miliwn a wariwyd ar eiddo ar hyd ffordd liniaru'r M4 a brynwyd yn orfodol? Maent yn parhau i fod yn asedau i Lywodraeth Cymru. Ond beth am y costau cyfreithiol a'r ffioedd proffesiynol sydd wedi'u gwastraffu ar brynu'r eiddo hwnnw? Ac rydym yn meddwl am y ddau eiddo a brynwyd y llynedd, ddau fis cyn i Lywodraeth Cymru ddileu'r prosiect cyfan. Felly mae un adran o'r Llywodraeth yn prynu dau eiddo; ddeufis yn ddiweddarach, mae adran arall o'r Llywodraeth—swyddfa'r Prif Weinidog—yn diddymu'r union brosiect y prynwyd yr eiddo ar ei gyfer. Onid yw hynny'n enghraifft o pam fod angen y swyddfa hon arnom?
Soniodd Paul Davies am nifer o adroddiadau gan Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, neu Archwilio Cymru fel y'i gelwir bellach—y gorwariant ar ffordd yr A465 Blaenau'r Cymoedd, y gorwariant o £60 miliwn ar gael gwared ar asbestos yn ysbyty Glangwili—a thynnodd sylw at brinder mecanweithiau digonol o fewn Llywodraeth Cymru i gynllunio a chyflawni prosiectau hirdymor yn briodol. Geiriau Archwilio Cymru yw'r rheini, nid fy ngeiriau i: 'prinder mecanweithiau digonol o fewn Llywodraeth Cymru'. Fel y dywedais o'r blaen yn y Siambr hon, Lywydd, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn euog o fethu cynllunio'n briodol ar gyfer darparu cynlluniau seilwaith ffyrdd a gwella ffyrdd yn y tymor hir, o fethu rheoli'r broses o gaffael a darparu cynlluniau ffyrdd yn briodol, ac o fethu cynnal rhwydwaith ffyrdd Cymru gyda lefelau priodol o gyllid.
Rwy'n dal yn bryderus ynghylch y diffyg cynllunio parhaus i gyflawni prosiectau seilwaith yn brydlon. Ac er gwaethaf digonedd o sicrwydd i'r gwrthwyneb, nid ydym yn gweld unrhyw newid yn y maes hwn o hyd. Mae angen inni ddechrau darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus o ansawdd uchel sy'n ymatebol, yn effeithlon, yn hygyrch ac sy'n darparu gwerth am arian i drethdalwyr Cymru, drwy sefydlu swyddfa i sicrhau effeithlonrwydd trawslywodraethol a thrawsnewid o fewn y sector cyhoeddus, swyddfa sy'n gyfrifol am sicrhau gwerth cyhoeddus, cynllunio, perfformiad a chefnogi caffael. Yn fy marn i, Lywydd, byddai swyddfa newydd yn Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer cadernid ac effeithlonrwydd Llywodraeth yn ffrind beirniadol. Byddai'n darparu'r trosolwg clir, trawsadrannol a'r gwaith craffu trylwyr sy'n ofynnol ac sy'n angenrheidiol i sicrhau bod arian trethdalwyr yn cael ei wario'n briodol ac nad yw'n cael ei wastraffu gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Rwy'n annog yr Aelodau i gefnogi ein cynnig heddiw.
Y Gweinidog Cyllid a'r Trefnydd, Rebecca Evans.
The Minister for Finance and Trefnydd, Rebecca Evans.
Llywydd, delivering value for money is a constant priority for the Welsh Government. It was the case prior to the pandemic and our targeted response to the COVID-19 crisis has been driven by that same commitment. Our objectives as a Government are focused on bringing about a more prosperous, more equal and greener Wales. In order to achieve that aim, we're taking a long-term approach, underpinned by the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 because we know how short-termism can damage life chances, while building up preventable, wasteful costs to the public purse. When taking decisions, the Welsh Government follows governance requirements set out in 'Managing Welsh Public Money'. This ensures that value-for-money considerations are embedded in the preparation and scrutiny of all ministerial advice and in Welsh Government major projects and programme management.
Transparency and accountability also play an essential role in supporting the scrutiny that tests the responsible use of public money. I regard this as integral to our approach. Unlike the UK Government, we presented a first supplementary budget in May to provide a greater degree of transparency with the details on the budget adjustments made since the advent of the COVID-19 pandemic. And, of course, Members will recall the confusion created by the Chancellor's summer economic update, after which the independent Institute for Fiscal Studies called on the UK Treasury to follow our practice by publishing similar adjustments in order to provide greater transparency. Our intention is to be as transparent as we are able to be on the resources available to Wales as a result of the consequential adjustments to the Welsh block grant and on allocations from reserves.
In response to the Finance Committee's report on the first supplementary budget, I have written to the committee providing further detail on consequential funding. I am committed to publishing a further supplementary budget in due course detailing further allocations, and we'll use oral and written statements to provide Members with updates on the in-year financial position as it develops. We've always taken seriously the responsible use of public money because of the powerful role we know it can play in transforming lives. I am proud that sound budget management has supported the delivery of decisions in Wales that set us apart, including free prescriptions, Jobs Growth Wales, the single cancer pathway, the childcare offer, the doubling of the capital limit that people can keep before paying for social care and the ongoing development of twenty-first century schools and colleges across Wales.
During this crisis, we have moved quickly to establish a fighting fund, held in a central reserve dedicated to our COVID response. As well as using new consequentials, the reserve has been boosted by repurposed budgets, as set out in the first supplementary budget. And thanks to this strategic approach, we have been in a position to confirm allocations, including close to £0.5 billion for local authorities, £800 million for the NHS stabilisation fund and over £800 million in grants for businesses. Allocations from the reserve are rigorously scrutinised through a process that was established early on in the pandemic. I consider COVID-19-related finance issues on a regular basis, including allocations from the reserve, with support from other Ministers and a range of officials. And since March, almost 100 of these meetings have taken place, which have supported our ability to speed up the decision-making process in recognition of the urgent pressures that we face.
I know that the Permanent Secretary also takes her personal responsibilities as the principal accounting officer very seriously. Together with the Permanent Secretary, I chair an efficiency board, which considers ways in which the Welsh Government can use its own resources to best effect. This process has radically redefined our relationship with sponsored bodies, securing a more effective, strategic approach and efficiency savings. We have also established a governance centre of excellence to ensure that all of the Welsh Government can access experienced and professional advice and challenge. Scrutiny by Audit Wales and the Public Accounts Committee is, of course, a welcome source of external challenge and review. The recommendations produced are monitored for implementation by the Welsh Government audit and risk assurance committees to ensure lessons are learned and actions are taken. Audit Wales is a standing member of this committee.
It's important to note that the proportion of Government activity represented by the cases raised during this debate—. And it's, of course, right that those are examined and those lessons are learned. And, as I've detailed, we have a process in place to ensure that happens. However, each year, we issue around 11,000 grant award letters to third parties from about 400 different grant schemes. Very few of those grant awards give rise to issues that call for scrutiny by the auditor general and a report to the Public Accounts Committee.
So, it's right that we recognise those cases that have been referred to today, but they do represent the exception, rather than the rule. I just don't think it's credible to suggest that the reports, which rightly draw out challenging and critical feedback, support an overall conclusion that the Welsh Government is not using public money responsibly. Delivering value for money is ultimately reliant on sound budget management, something which is increasingly undermined by the UK Government's refusal to take seriously the concerns raised by devolved administrations. I've previously described to colleagues numerous examples of the UK Government's failure to adhere to the statement of funding policy, which has made the Welsh Government worse off—from eleventh hour capital reductions to pension funding shortfalls.
It's concerning that the UK Government still refuses to act within the fiscal framework to allow us greater access to, and control over, the Wales reserve in order to better plan for our response to the pandemic this year. Far from seeking new largesse from Whitehall, this request is simply about allowing the Welsh Government to make decisions about how to use the funding that we have set aside to manage during uncertain times. We'll continue to target our resources in a manner that promotes value for money for the people of Wales and we will continue to urge the UK Government to provide the fiscal flexibilities necessary to support that aim.
Lywydd, mae sicrhau gwerth am arian yn flaenoriaeth gyson i Lywodraeth Cymru. Roedd hynny'n wir cyn y pandemig ac mae ein hymateb a dargedwyd i ymdrin ag argyfwng COVID-19 wedi'i ysgogi gan yr un ymrwymiad. Mae ein hamcanion fel Llywodraeth yn canolbwyntio ar sicrhau Cymru sy'n fwy ffyniannus, yn fwy cyfartal ac yn fwy gwyrdd. Er mwyn cyflawni'r nod hwnnw, rydym yn mabwysiadu dull hirdymor, wedi'i ategu gan Ddeddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015 oherwydd ein bod yn gwybod sut y gall ymagwedd tymor byr niweidio cyfleoedd bywyd, gan gynyddu costau gwastraffus y gellir eu hosgoi i bwrs y wlad. Wrth wneud penderfyniadau, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn dilyn gofynion llywodraethu a nodir yn 'Rheoli Arian Cyhoeddus Cymru'. Mae hyn yn sicrhau bod ystyriaethau gwerth am arian yn rhan annatod o'r gwaith o baratoi a chraffu ar yr holl gyngor gweinidogol ac o brosiectau mawr a gwaith rheoli rhaglenni Llywodraeth Cymru.
Mae tryloywder ac atebolrwydd hefyd yn chwarae rhan hanfodol wrth gefnogi'r gwaith craffu sy'n profi'r defnydd cyfrifol o arian cyhoeddus. Credaf fod hyn yn rhan annatod o'n dull o weithredu. Yn wahanol i Lywodraeth y DU, cyflwynwyd cyllideb atodol gyntaf gennym ym mis Mai i ddarparu mwy o dryloywder ynghylch manylion yr addasiadau i'r gyllideb a wnaed ers dechrau pandemig COVID-19. Ac wrth gwrs, bydd yr Aelodau'n cofio'r dryswch a grëwyd gan ddiweddariad economaidd y Canghellor yn yr haf, ac ar ôl hynny galwodd y Sefydliad Astudiaethau Cyllid annibynnol ar Drysorlys y DU i ddilyn ein harfer ni drwy gyhoeddi addasiadau tebyg er mwyn darparu mwy o dryloywder. Ein bwriad yw bod mor dryloyw ag y gallwn fod ynglŷn â'r adnoddau sydd ar gael i Gymru o ganlyniad i'r addasiadau canlyniadol i grant bloc Cymru ac ynglŷn â dyraniadau o gronfeydd wrth gefn.
Mewn ymateb i adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyllid ar y gyllideb atodol gyntaf, ysgrifennais at y pwyllgor i roi rhagor o fanylion am gyllid canlyniadol. Rwyf wedi ymrwymo i gyhoeddi cyllideb atodol arall maes o law yn manylu ar ddyraniadau pellach, a byddwn yn defnyddio datganiadau llafar ac ysgrifenedig i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Aelodau am y sefyllfa ariannol yn ystod y flwyddyn wrth iddi ddatblygu. Rydym bob amser wedi bod o ddifrif ynglŷn â defnydd cyfrifol o arian cyhoeddus oherwydd y rôl bwerus y gwyddom y gall ei chwarae yn trawsnewid bywydau. Rwy'n falch fod rheolaeth gadarn ar gyllidebau wedi cefnogi'r gwaith o wneud penderfyniadau yng Nghymru sy'n ein gosod ar wahân, gan gynnwys presgripsiynau am ddim, Twf Swyddi Cymru, un llwybr canser, y cynnig gofal plant, dyblu'r terfyn cyfalaf y gall pobl ei gadw cyn talu am ofal cymdeithasol a datblygiad parhaus ysgolion a cholegau'r unfed ganrif ar hugain ledled Cymru.
Yn ystod yr argyfwng, rydym wedi symud yn gyflym i sefydlu cronfa ymladd, a gedwir mewn cronfa wrth gefn ganolog a'i neilltuo ar gyfer ein hymateb i COVID. Yn ogystal â defnyddio symiau canlyniadol newydd, cafodd y gronfa wrth gefn hwb gan gyllidebau a addaswyd at ddibenion gwahanol, fel y nodwyd yn y gyllideb atodol gyntaf. A diolch i'r dull strategol hwn o weithredu, rydym wedi bod mewn sefyllfa i gadarnhau dyraniadau, gan gynnwys bron i £0.5 biliwn i awdurdodau lleol, £800 miliwn i gronfa sefydlogi'r GIG a thros £800 miliwn mewn grantiau i fusnesau. Creffir yn drylwyr ar ddyraniadau o'r gronfa wrth gefn drwy broses a sefydlwyd yn gynnar yn y pandemig. Rwy'n ystyried materion cyllid sy'n gysylltiedig â COVID-19 yn rheolaidd, gan gynnwys dyraniadau o'r gronfa wrth gefn, gyda chymorth gan Weinidogion eraill ac amrywiaeth o swyddogion. Ac ers mis Mawrth, mae bron i 100 o'r cyfarfodydd hyn wedi'u cynnal, gan gefnogi ein gallu i gyflymu'r broses o wneud penderfyniadau i gydnabod y pwysau dwys sy'n ein hwynebu.
Gwn fod yr Ysgrifennydd Parhaol hefyd o ddifrif ynglŷn â'i chyfrifoldebau personol fel prif swyddog cyfrifyddu. Gyda'r Ysgrifennydd Parhaol, rwy'n cadeirio bwrdd effeithlonrwydd, sy'n ystyried ffyrdd y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ddefnyddio ei hadnoddau ei hun yn y ffordd fwyaf effeithiol. Mae'r broses hon wedi ailddiffinio ein perthynas â chyrff a noddir yn sylweddol, gan sicrhau dull mwy effeithiol a strategol o weithredu, ac arbedion effeithlonrwydd. Rydym hefyd wedi sefydlu canolfan lywodraethu i sicrhau y gall Llywodraeth Cymru i gyd gael cyngor a her profiadol a phroffesiynol. Mae gwaith craffu gan Archwilio Cymru a'r Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus, wrth gwrs, yn ffynhonnell ddefnyddiol o her ac arolwg allanol. Caiff yr argymhellion a gynhyrchir eu monitro i'w gweithredu gan bwyllgorau archwilio a sicrwydd risg Llywodraeth Cymru er mwyn sicrhau bod gwersi'n cael eu dysgu a bod camau'n cael eu cymryd. Mae Archwilio Cymru yn aelod sefydlog o'r pwyllgor hwn.
Mae'n bwysig nodi bod y gyfran o weithgarwch y Llywodraeth a gynrychiolir gan yr achosion a godwyd yn ystod y ddadl hon—. Ac mae'n iawn, wrth gwrs, i'r rheini gael eu harchwilio a bod y gwersi hynny'n cael eu dysgu. Ac fel y nodais yn fanwl, mae gennym broses ar waith i sicrhau bod hynny'n digwydd. Fodd bynnag, bob blwyddyn, rydym yn cyhoeddi tua 11,000 o lythyrau dyfarnu grantiau i drydydd partïon o tua 400 o gynlluniau grant gwahanol. Ychydig iawn o'r dyfarniadau grant hynny sy'n arwain at faterion sy'n galw am graffu gan yr archwilydd cyffredinol ac adroddiad i'r Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus.
Felly, mae'n iawn ein bod yn cydnabod yr achosion y cyfeiriwyd atynt heddiw, ond eithriadau yw'r rhain, yn hytrach na'r rheol. Nid wyf yn credu ei bod yn gredadwy i awgrymu bod yr adroddiadau, sy'n nodi adborth heriol a beirniadol, a hynny'n briodol, yn cefnogi casgliad cyffredinol nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn defnyddio arian cyhoeddus yn gyfrifol. Mae sicrhau gwerth am arian yn dibynnu yn y pen draw ar reoli cyllidebau'n gadarn, rhywbeth a danseilir fwyfwy gan wrthodiad Llywodraeth y DU i fod o ddifrif ynglŷn â'r pryderon a godir gan y gweinyddiaethau datganoledig. Disgrifiais nifer o enghreifftiau i fy nghyd-Aelodau o fethiant Llywodraeth y DU i gydymffurfio â'r datganiad o bolisi ariannu, sydd wedi gwneud Llywodraeth Cymru yn waeth ei byd—o ostyngiadau cyfalaf ar yr unfed awr ar ddeg i ddiffygion cyllid pensiwn.
Mae'n destun pryder fod Llywodraeth y DU yn dal i wrthod gweithredu o fewn y fframwaith cyllidol i ganiatáu mwy o fynediad at, a rheolaeth ar gronfa wrth gefn Cymru er mwyn cynllunio'n well ar gyfer ein hymateb i'r pandemig eleni. Yn hytrach na chwilio am haelioni newydd o Whitehall, mae'r cais hwn yn ymwneud yn syml â chaniatáu i Lywodraeth Cymru wneud penderfyniadau ynglŷn â sut i ddefnyddio'r cyllid rydym wedi'i neilltuo i allu ymdopi yn ystod cyfnodau ansicr. Byddwn yn parhau i dargedu ein hadnoddau mewn modd sy'n hyrwyddo gwerth am arian i bobl Cymru a byddwn yn parhau i annog Llywodraeth y DU i ddarparu'r hyblygrwydd ariannol sydd ei angen i gefnogi'r nod hwnnw.
Galwaf ar Darren Millar nawr i ymateb i'r ddadl. Darren Millar.
I call on Darren Millar to reply to the debate. Darren Millar.
Thank you, Presiding Officer, and thank you to everyone who's contributed to what I think has been a very important debate on the need to ensure value for money for Welsh taxpayers, because, as one wonderful woman, Margaret Thatcher, once said,
'There is no such thing as public money; there is only taxpayers' money.'
And we are responsible, in this place, for making sure that it is spent very wisely. I'm sorry to hear that the Minister does not accept the need for improvements in scrutiny of the way that public money is spent, because we heard whole long lists from speaker after speaker in the Senedd debate today about failings in the Welsh Government's own processes, which have resulted in over £1 billion worth of waste of taxpayers' money.
Of course, we must remember that when taxpayers' money is wasted there are opportunity costs, as Caroline Jones quite rightly spelt out. There's money that you can't, then, invest in our health service, that you can't invest in our education system and that you can't invest in Welsh infrastructure. So, it's absolutely right, when she said that we need to rebuild trust; we need to rebuild trust in a future Welsh Government to manage these things properly.
I disagree wholeheartedly with Gareth Bennett when he said that this is evidence of the failing of devolution. It's not. It's the evidence of a failing Welsh Labour-led administration, and its junior partners, also, need to accept some of that blame. Plaid, of course, have been unusually absent in making a contribution to a debate on this matter in the Chamber today, which I find pretty extraordinary.
Neil McEvoy's contribution started so well with a reference to Margaret Thatcher, but it quickly went downhill, and the less said about the end, frankly, the better. But I will say this, in response to Neil's contribution: he's quite right to identify the cronyism that is all too apparent here in Wales. But I will say, in response to him, in terms of his comments about the third sector: we are not at war with the third sector as a Conservative Party here in Wales, we are at war with waste and inefficiency, and that is why we need, as Paul Davies has said on multiple occasions, a devolution revolution—a revolution that radically reforms and reshapes and re-energises the Welsh Government into the lean fighting machine that the people of Wales expect it to be.
We need to be able to have a system that is not slow to pull the plug on projects that don't work, and that is quick to invest in projects that do work, so that we don't have this perpetual pilot-project process that we have in Wales where there are demonstrated improvements, as Angela Burns said at the outset in her opening contribution, where we have proven projects that work, and the Welsh Government doesn't roll out further. There are many international examples. Paul Davies pointed to one in New Zealand. We know that the UK Government has the Office for Budget Responsibility as well, which also contributes to the scrutiny processes of the UK Government and the way it orders its finances.
I was very disappointed by Rhianon Passmore's contribution—completely and unnecessarily partisan. Of course, she was given short shrift by Nick Ramsay in his response, who, I thought, rebuked Rhianon Passmore, frankly, with finesse.
Russell George focused his remarks on roads and infrastructure, and the significant overspends that we've had on those, and I think it's absolutely right that he mentioned the ridiculous situation where we had a number of homes and properties purchased within just weeks of the First Minister's announcement. More taxpayers' money down the pan. Of course, that's not the only example, of that—we also saw that with the Pinewood project site.
So, I implore Members of the Senedd to support our motion on the order paper today. We need an arm's-length, cross-departmental, independent office of budget responsibility, or Government resilience and efficiency rather, to ensure that taxpayers can get value for money here in Wales. It will complement the other systems that we have in place with Audit Wales and the Public Accounts Committee and the work of this Senedd as a whole, and I commend the motion to Members.
Diolch, Lywydd, a diolch i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu at yr hyn a fu'n ddadl bwysig iawn yn fy marn i am yr angen i sicrhau gwerth am arian i drethdalwyr Cymru, oherwydd, fel y dywedodd un fenyw wych, Margaret Thatcher, unwaith,
Nid oes y fath beth ag arian cyhoeddus, dim ond arian trethdalwyr.
Ac rydym ni yn y lle hwn yn gyfrifol am sicrhau ei fod yn cael ei wario'n ddoeth iawn. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf glywed nad yw'r Gweinidog yn derbyn yr angen am welliannau o ran craffu ar y ffordd y caiff arian cyhoeddus ei wario, oherwydd clywsom restrau hir gan siaradwr ar ôl siaradwr yn nadl y Senedd heddiw am fethiannau ym mhrosesau Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun, sydd wedi arwain at wastraffu gwerth dros £1 biliwn o arian trethdalwyr.
Wrth gwrs, rhaid inni gofio, pan gaiff arian trethdalwyr ei wastraffu, ceir costau cyfle, fel y dywedodd Caroline Jones yn gwbl briodol. Mae'n arian na allwch ei fuddsoddi yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd, na allwch ei fuddsoddi yn ein system addysg ac na allwch ei fuddsoddi yn seilwaith Cymru. Felly, mae'n hollol iawn, pan ddywedodd fod angen inni ailadeiladu ymddiriedaeth; mae angen inni ailadeiladu ymddiriedaeth mewn Llywodraeth Cymru yn y dyfodol i reoli'r pethau hyn yn iawn.
Rwy'n anghytuno'n llwyr â Gareth Bennett pan ddywedodd fod hyn yn dystiolaeth o fethiant datganoli. Nid yw hynny'n wir. Mae'n dystiolaeth fod angen i weinyddiaeth sy'n methu dan arweiniad Llafur Cymru, a'i phartneriaid iau hefyd, ysgwyddo rhywfaint o'r bai hwnnw. Mae Plaid Cymru, wrth gwrs, wedi bod yn anarferol o absennol yn y ddadl ar y mater hwn yn y Siambr heddiw, sy'n eithaf rhyfeddol.
Dechreuodd cyfraniad Neil McEvoy mor dda gyda chyfeiriad at Margaret Thatcher, ond dirywiodd yn gyflym, a gorau po leiaf a ddywedaf am y diwedd. Ond fe ddywedaf hyn, mewn ymateb i gyfraniad Neil: mae'n llygad ei le i nodi'r ffrindgarwch sydd ond yn rhy amlwg yma yng Nghymru. Ond rwyf am ddweud mewn ymateb iddo, ar ei sylwadau am y trydydd sector: nid ydym yn brwydro yn erbyn y trydydd sector fel Plaid Geidwadol yma yng Nghymru, rydym yn brwydro yn erbyn gwastraff ac aneffeithlonrwydd, a dyna pam y mae arnom angen chwyldro datganoli, fel y mae Paul Davies wedi dweud droeon—chwyldro sy'n diwygio ac yn ail-lunio ac yn ailfywiogi Llywodraeth Cymru yn sylweddol i greu'r system wydn ac effeithiol y mae pobl Cymru yn ei disgwyl.
Mae angen inni allu cael system nad yw'n araf i dynnu'r plwg ar brosiectau nad ydynt yn gweithio, ac sy'n gyflym i fuddsoddi mewn prosiectau sy'n gweithio, fel nad oes gennym y broses ddiddiwedd o beilot i brosiect sydd gennym yng Nghymru lle ceir gwelliannau gweladwy, fel y dywedodd Angela Burns ar ddechrau ei chyfraniad agoriadol, lle mae gennym brosiectau y profwyd eu bod yn gweithio, ond nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cyflwyno ymhellach. Mae yna lawer o enghreifftiau rhyngwladol. Cyfeiriodd Paul Davies at un yn Seland Newydd. Gwyddom fod gan Lywodraeth y DU y Swyddfa Cyfrifoldeb Cyllidebol hefyd, sy'n cyfrannu at brosesau craffu Llywodraeth y DU a'r ffordd y mae'n trefnu ei chyllid.
Cefais fy siomi'n fawr gan gyfraniad Rhianon Passmore—dallbleidiol a ddiangen. Wrth gwrs, daeth o dan lach Nick Ramsay yn ei ymateb, a chafodd Rhianon Passmore ei cheryddu ganddo'n gynnil a dweud y gwir.
Canolbwyntiodd Russell George ei sylwadau ar ffyrdd a seilwaith, a'r gorwariant sylweddol a gawsom ar y rheini, a chredaf ei bod yn gwbl briodol iddo sôn am y sefyllfa hurt lle'r oedd gennym nifer o gartrefi ac eiddo wedi'u prynu o fewn ychydig wythnosau i gyhoeddiad y Prif Weinidog. Mwy o arian trethdalwyr i'r twll diwaelod. Wrth gwrs, nid dyna'r unig enghraifft, o hynny—gwelsom hynny hefyd gyda safle prosiect Pinewood.
Felly, erfyniaf ar yr Aelodau o'r Senedd i gefnogi ein cynnig ar y papur trefn heddiw. Mae arnom angen swyddfa cyfrifoldeb cyllidebol annibynnol hyd braich, un drawsadrannol ac annibynnol, neu swyddfa cadernid ac effeithlonrwydd Llywodraeth yn hytrach, i sicrhau y gall trethdalwyr gael gwerth am arian yma yng Nghymru. Bydd yn ategu'r systemau eraill sydd gennym ar waith gydag Archwilio Cymru a'r Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus a gwaith y Senedd hon yn ei chyfanrwydd, ac rwy'n cymeradwyo'r cynnig i'r Aelodau.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Oes yna wrthwynebiad i'r cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Oes, dwi'n clywed gwrthwynebiad, ac felly rŷn ni'n gohirio'r bleidlais tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? Are there any objections to the motion? [Objection.] Yes, there are objections, and therefore I will defer voting until voting time.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
Ac yn unol â'r Rheolau Sefydlog, bydd yna egwyl nawr o bum munud cyn cynnal y cyfnod pleidleisio hynny. Felly, egwyl.
And in accordance with Standing Orders, there will now be a break of five minutes before we move to voting time.
Ataliwyd y Cyfarfod Llawn am 18:32.
Ailymgynullodd y Senedd am 18:39, gyda'r Llywydd yn y Gadair.
Plenary was suspended at 18:32.
The Senedd reconvened at 18:39, with the Llywydd in the Chair.
Felly, mae'r bleidlais gyntaf yn y cyfnod pleidleisio ar ddadl Aelod o dan Reol Sefydlog 11.21(iv) ar incwm sylfaenol cyffredinol. Dwi'n galw am bleidlais ar y cynnig, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Jack Sargeant. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 28, 10 yn ymatal, 13 yn erbyn, ac felly mae'r cynnig yna wedi'i gymeradwyo.
Therefore, the first vote is on the Member debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv)—universal basic income. I call for a vote on the motion, tabled in the name of Jack Sargeant. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 28, 10 abstentions, 13 against, therefore the motion is agreed.
Dadl Aelod o dan Reol Sefydlog 11.21 (iv) Incwm Sylfaenol Cyffredinol: O blaid: 28, Yn erbyn: 13, Ymatal: 10
Derbyniwyd y cynnig
Member Debate under Standing Order 11.21 (iv) Universal Basic Income (UBI): For: 28, Against: 13, Abstain: 10
Motion has been agreed
Mae'r gyfres o bleidleisiau nesaf ar ddadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ar werth am arian i drethdalwyr. Dwi'n galw am bleidlais ar y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 10, pedwar yn ymatal, 37 yn erbyn, felly mae'r cynnig wedi'i wrthod.
The next votes are on the Welsh Conservatives debate on value for money for taxpayers. I call for a vote on the unamended motion, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 10, four abstentions, 37 against, therefore the motion is not agreed.
Dadl Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - Gwerth am Arian i Drethdalwyr - cynnig heb ei ddiwygio, cyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar: O blaid: 10, Yn erbyn: 37, Ymatal: 4
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig
Welsh Conservatives Debate - Value for Money for Taxpayers - motion without amendment, tabled in the name of Darren Millar: For: 10, Against: 37, Abstain: 4
Motion has been rejected
Bydd y bleidlais nesaf ar welliant 1, ac os derbynnir gwelliant 1, bydd gwelliannau 2 a 3 yn cael eu dad-ddethol. Dwi'n galw am bleidlais, felly, ar welliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 27, neb yn ymatal, 24 yn erbyn, ac felly mae gwelliant 1 wedi cael ei gymeradwyo ac mae gwelliant 2 a gwelliant 3 yn cael eu dad-ddethol.
The next vote is on amendment 1, and if amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be deselected. I call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 27, no abstentions, 24 against, and therefore amendment 1 is agreed and amendments 2 and 3 are deselected.
Gwelliant 1 - Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - cyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans: O blaid: 27, Yn erbyn: 24, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant
Amendment 1 - Welsh Conservatives debate - tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans: For: 27, Against: 24, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been agreed
Cafodd gwelliannau 2 a 3 eu dad-ddethol.
Amendments 2 and 3 deselected.
Mae'r bleidlais nesaf ar welliant 4, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Neil McEvoy. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid chwech, neb yn ymatal, 45 yn erbyn, ac felly mae gwelliant 4 wedi'i wrthod.
The next vote is on amendment 4, tabled in the name of Neil McEvoy. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour six, no abstentions, 45 against, and therefore amendment 4 is not agreed.
Gwelliant 4 - Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - cyflwynwyd yn enw Neil McEvoy: O blaid: 6, Yn erbyn: 45, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
Amendment 4 - Welsh Conservatives debate - tabled in the name of Neil McEvoy: For: 6, Against: 45, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been rejected
Pleidlais nawr ar y cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio.
A vote now on the motion as amended.
Cynnig NDM7404 fel y'i diwygiwyd:
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn nodi bod rheoli arian trethdalwyr yn llwyddiannus yn dibynnu ar amcanion clir, llywodraethu da a gwaith craffu effeithiol ac yn cydnabod bod economeg cyni yn cynnig gwerth gwael am arian.
2. Yn gresynu at y ffaith bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi tanariannu a / neu wedi rhwystro nifer o brosiectau, gwasanaethau a seilweithiau heb eu datganoli yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys ymchwil a datblygu, rheilffyrdd, cysylltiad band eang ac ynni’r llanw ers 2010.
3. Yn croesawu’r cynnydd a wnaed wrth gyflawni polisïau arloesol Llywodraeth Cymru sydd wedi’u cynllunio ar gyfer pobl Cymru, gan gynnwys: presgripsiynau am ddim, Twf Swyddi Cymru, system caniatâd tybiedig ar gyfer rhoi organau, un llwybr canser, y cynnig gofal plant, dyblu’r terfyn cyfalaf, Ysgolion yr 21ain Ganrif a’r Gronfa Cadernid Economaidd.
4. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth y DU i roi mwy o hyblygrwydd cyllidol i Lywodraeth Cymru er budd rheoli cyllidebau yn dda.
Motion NDM7404 as amended:
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Notes that the successful management of taxpayers’ money depends on clear objectives, good governance and effective scrutiny and recognises the poor value for money represented by austerity economics.
2. Regrets that the UK Government has underfunded and / or blocked numerous non-devolved projects, services and infrastructure in Wales including research and development, rail, broadband and tidal energy since 2010.
3. Welcomes the progress made in delivering innovative Welsh Government policies designed for the people of Wales including: free prescriptions, Jobs Growth Wales, presumed consent for organ donation, the single cancer pathway, the childcare offer, the doubling of the capital limit, 21st Century Schools and the Economic Resilience Fund.
4. Calls upon the UK government to provide greater fiscal flexibilities for the Welsh Government in the interests of good budget management.
Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 27, neb yn ymatal, 24 yn erbyn, ac felly mae'r cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio wedi'i dderbyn.
Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 27, no abstentions, 24 against, and therefore the motion as amended is agreed.
Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - Gwerth am Arian i Drethdalwyr - Cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio: O blaid: 27, Yn erbyn: 24, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd
Welsh Conservatives debate - Value for Money for Taxpayers - Motion as amended: For: 27, Against: 24, Abstain: 0
Motion as amended has been agreed
Yr eitem nesaf ar ein hagenda ni, felly, yw'r ddadl fer, ac mae'r ddadl fer heddiw i'w chyflwyno gan Rhun ap Iorwerth. Dwi'n galw ar Rhun ap Iorwerth i gyflwyno'r pwnc y mae wedi dewis ei gyflwyno. Rhun ap Iorwerth.
The next item on our agenda is the short debate, and the short debate will be presented by Rhun ap Iorwerth. I call on Rhun ap Iorwerth to introduce the topic that he has chosen. Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd, am y cyfle yma i roi sylw i rai o'r heriau a'r cyfleoedd sy'n wynebu'r etholwyr rydw i'n eu cynrychioli yn Ynys Môn ac, a ninnau'n rhan bwysig o economi rhanbarthol ehangach, yr heriau a'r cyfleoedd sy'n berthnasol y tu hwnt i'r pontydd hefyd. Mae rhai ohonyn nhw'n hen ffactorau, ffactorau sydd ynghlwm â'n lleoliad ni neu nodweddion daearyddol; eraill yn ffactorau mwy newydd—canlyniadau i gyd-destun gwleidyddol neu economaidd heriol.
Mi dria i roi rhyw drosolwg o le rydw i'n meddwl rydyn ni arni. Rydw i'n edrych ymlaen at weld a ydy'r Gweinidog yn cytuno efo fi ar rai os nad y cyfan o fy argraffiadau i, ac yn barod i ymrwymo i'n cefnogi ni ym Môn ymhob ffordd bosib i ddelifro ar ein dyheadau ni fel cymuned ar yr ynys. Bydd, mi fydd yr hyn sydd gen i i'w ddweud yn swnio'n ddigalon, o bosib, ar brydiau. Mi fydd yna faterion sy'n peri pryder go iawn yn cael eu crybwyll gen i. Pa mor aml ydw i wedi clywed pobl yn dweud, 'Does yna ddim swyddi yma. Does yna ddim byd i gadw'n pobl ifanc ni yma', ac mae yna ddigwyddiadau diweddar sydd wedi atgyfnerthu'r math yna o deimladau. Ond dwi'n berson optimistaidd hefyd, a dwi'n gallu gweld cymaint o gyfleon ar hyn o bryd—cyfleon sydd yma'n barod sydd angen eu meithrin, a chyfleon eraill newydd sy'n egino ar hyn o bryd, ac rydyn ni angen mynd ar eu holau nhw efo'n holl nerth.
Thank you very much, Llywydd, for this opportunity to address some of the challenges and opportunities facing the constituents that I represent on Anglesey and, as an important part of a wider regional economy, the challenges and opportunities that apply beyond the bridges as well. Some of them are old factors related to our location or geographical features; others are newer—consequences of a challenging political or economic context.
I will try to give an overview of where I think we are. I'm looking forward to seeing whether the Minister agrees with me on some if not all of my impressions, and is ready to commit to supporting us on Anglesey in every way possible to deliver on our aspirations as a community on the island. Yes, what I have to say may sound depressing at times. There are issues of real concern, which I will mention. How often have I heard people say, 'There are no jobs here. There's nothing to keep our young people here', and recent events have reinforced those feelings. But I'm an optimist and I can see many opportunities—opportunities that already exist that need to be nurtured, and other new opportunities that are emerging at the moment, and we need to pursue them with all our might.
Daeth David Melding i'r Gadair.
David Melding took the Chair.
Mi ges i fy magu yn Ynys Môn. Roedd gan yr ynys wastad dynfa arna i, ond am wn i, pan wnes i gyfarfod y ferch o Fôn fuasai'n dod yn wraig i fi maes o law y cafodd y berthynas ei selio unwaith ac am byth, a dyna wnaeth yn eithaf siŵr mai mynd yn ôl i Fôn fuaswn i i fagu fy mhlant innau. Ac ie, mynd yn ôl oedd o, achos fel cymaint o'n pobl ifanc ni, mi adawais i i brifysgol, i waith yng Nghaerdydd, Llundain am gyfnod, ond dwi'n gwybod nad ydy pawb ddim yn teimlo bod yr un cyfle ganddyn nhw i fynd yn ôl, neu i beidio â gadael yn y lle cyntaf.
Cyfle i gadw'n pobl ifanc ni, neu i ddenu rhai yn ôl oedd y brif apêl yn Wylfa Newydd yn lleol. Wrth gwrs, doedd o ddim yn cael ei gefnogi gan bawb, o bell ffordd. Cannoedd o swyddi hirdymor, cyfnod llewyrchus iawn yn ystod yr adeiladu, ond cyfnod hynod, hynod heriol hefyd—cyfnod a allai, heb fesurau lliniaru cadarn iawn, iawn, gael effaith drom ar ein cymunedau ni. A gwthio am y lliniaru yna, i ddyrchafu y budd lleol, cyfleon am swyddi lleol—dyna oedd yn flaenoriaethau i fi, wastad, wrth ddelio efo'r datblygiad hwnnw, a hynny'n gweithio'n agos iawn efo'r cyngor sir. Ac mi oedd y datblygwr yn deall pwysigrwydd y pethau yna; dwi'n grediniol yn hynny. Ond rŵan, wrth gwrs, mae'r datblygiad yna ar stop—ergyd economaidd fawr o ran y swyddi a'r refeniw lleol oedd yn cael eu haddo. Does dim dianc oddi wrth hynny. Ac mi fydda i'n cario ymlaen, wrth gwrs, i weithio, trafod efo cwmni Horizon wrth iddyn nhw ystyried a oes yna fodd, neu sut, i atgyfodi'r cynllun. Ond mae'n rhaid inni fod yn barod i ystyried bod gennym ni gyd-destun newydd rŵan, cyd-destun lle dydy dibynnu ar un buddsoddiad enfawr fel hyn ddim yn gallu cael ei weld fel yr ateb i'r holl gwestiynau, ac yn sicr, mae yna beryglon mawr mewn codi gobeithion pobl eto, heb fod yna seiliau cadarn iawn i wneud hynny, a dwi'n gwybod bod y Gweinidog yn cytuno efo fi yn hynny o beth.
Felly, mae eisiau edrych ar ein cryfderau eraill ni a'r cyfleon eraill. Dwi wedi clywed rhai yn dweud bod yna flynyddoedd wedi'u colli, wedi'u gwastraffu—blynyddoedd a allai fod wedi eu defnyddio yn datblygu cynlluniau newydd amgen. Wel, y newyddion da—a dwi wastad wedi dadlau hyn—ydy nad oedd pob wy yn yr un fasged yn Ynys Môn. Efallai nad oedden nhw'n hawlio'r un penawdau, cweit, efallai eu bod nhw'n llawer llai, o edrych arnyn nhw'n unigol—llawer llai—ond o'u cymryd efo'i gilydd, mae yna fentrau eraill hynod gyffrous sydd ar y gweill ym Môn sydd wedi bod yn ddistaw bach yn codi momentwm yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf, a rŵan, fwy nag erioed, mae angen cefnogaeth i'w gwireddu nhw.
Felly, ymhle y dechreuaf i? Dwi am ddechrau efo ynni. Mae'r rhaglen ynys ynni yn un sy'n dal yn fyw ac yn iach; rydyn ni'n ynys sydd wedi arloesi dros y canrifoedd mewn ynni adnewyddol. Mae pawb yn gwybod mai Môn ydy mam Cymru, ond er mwyn darparu bwyd ar gyfer ei phlant, mi oedd yna bron i hanner cant o felinau gwynt yn malu gwenith ar draws yr ynys dros y blynyddoedd. Wrth ddatgan budd anuniongyrchol, nid yn unig bod fy mam-yng-nghyfraith i'n arfer rhedeg bwyty yn un o felinau enwocaf Môn, Melin Llynon, a bod fy nheulu-yng-nghyfraith wedi bod yn rhan o ddatblygu ynni gwynt ar yr ynys yn y 1990au, rydyn ni fel ynys rŵan yn edrych tua'r môr—mae'n golygon ni tua'r môr. Mae'r archwaeth am ynni glân yn tyfu, a phan fydd y ffermydd gwynt nesaf yn y môr oddi ar arfordir y gogledd yn datblygu, i'r gorllewin o'r rhai presennol, wel, gadewch inni wneud yn siŵr mai Caergybi fydd y porthladd i'w gwasanaethu nhw, fel mae Mostyn wedi gwasanaethu'r ffermydd gwynt mwy dwyreiniol mor effeithiol.
Ac o dan y môr, gadewch inni helpu i gael cynllun barcudion gwynt Minesto dros y llinell, i droi eu gwaith ymchwil nhw yn fenter fasnachol lwyddiannus fydd yn creu swyddi da eto yng Nghaergybi. Mae eisiau sicrhau bod cynllun ynni Morlais yn cael bwrw yn ei flaen—ardal brofi technoleg ynni cerrynt fydd yn dod â budd lleol o ran swyddi a buddsoddiad, a chaniatáu ymchwil o bwysigrwydd rhyngwladol. Ac mae'n cael ei redeg fel menter gymdeithasol, gan Fenter Môn, fydd yn cyfeirio'r budd economaidd at ein cymunedau a'n pobl ifanc ni. Oes, mae eisiau ei ddatblygu fo'n ofalus, yn bwyllog—mae'n wir am bob technoleg newydd—ond mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru wneud popeth i helpu sicrhau'r buddsoddiad angenrheidiol yma iddo fo allu mynd ymlaen i'r cam nesaf, ac felly, hefyd, Llywodraeth Prydain.
I was brought up in Anglesey. The island always had a strong hold on me, and I suppose when I met the Anglesey girl who would later become my wife, that relationship was cemented once and for all, and that's what ensured that I would also return to Anglesey to bring up my own children. And, yes, I did return, because like so many of our young people, I left—I went to university, to work, in Cardiff, and London for a while, but I know that not everyone feels that they have that same opportunity to return, or to not leave in the first instance.
An opportunity to keep our young people, or to bring some of them back, was the main appeal of Wylfa Newydd locally. Of course, it wasn't supported across the board, by any means. Hundreds of long-term jobs, a prosperous period during the construction phase, but also an extremely challenging period—a period that could, without very robust mitigation measures, have a severe impact on our communities. And pushing for that mitigation, promoting local benefit, local job opportunities—that was always my priority when dealing with that development, and I did that working very closely with the county council. And the developer did understand the importance of those things; I have no doubt about that. But now, of course, that development has been put on hold—a major economic blow in terms of the jobs and local revenue promised. There's no escaping that. And I will continue to work and to discuss with Horizon as they consider whether, or how, to resurrect the scheme. But we have to be prepared to consider that we now have a new context, a context where relying on one major investment cannot be seen as a panacea. And certainly, there are major risks in raising people's hopes again without having solid foundations for doing that, and I know the Minister would agree with me on that.
So, we do need to look at our other strengths and opportunities. I've heard some say that years have been lost or even wasted—years that could have been used in developing new alternative plans. Well, the good news—and I've always argued this point—is that not all our eggs were in one basket on Anglesey. They may not have generated the same headlines, there may have been far less scrutiny of them individually, but taken together, there are other very exciting initiatives in the pipeline in Anglesey that have been quietly gathering momentum in recent years, and now, more than ever, they need support to make them a reality.
Well, where to start? Let's start with energy: the energy island programme is still alive and kicking. We are an island that has pioneered for centuries in renewable energy. We know that Anglesey is often described as 'mam Cymru', the mother of Wales, but in order to provide food for her children, there were almost 50 windmills milling wheat across the island over the decades. Whilst declaring an indirect interest here, not only that my mother-in-law used to run a restaurant in one of Anglesey's most famous mills, Melin Llynon, and that my in-laws were involved with the development of wind energy on the island in the 1990s, we as an island now are turning our sights to the sea. The appetite for clean energy is growing and when the next offshore windfarms off the northern coast develop to the west of the current windfarms, well, let's make sure that Holyhead is the port that serves them, as Mostyn has served the more easterly windfarms so effectively.
And under the sea, let's help to get the Minesto installation scheme over the line, turning their research into a commercial venture that will bring good jobs to Holyhead. We need to ensure that Morlais energy scheme goes ahead—a testing area for tidal current technologies that will bring local benefits in terms of jobs and investment, as well as allowing research of international importance. And it's being run as a social enterprise by Menter Môn, which will direct the economic benefit to our communities and young people. Yes, it needs to be developed carefully and cautiously—that's true of every new technology—but the Welsh Government needs to do everything it can to help secure this investment so it can move on to the next phase, and likewise the UK Government.
Fel cymaint o ddatblygiadau ynni môr, mae'n cael ei gefnogi gan arbenigedd ysgol eigioneg Prifysgol Bangor, ysgol sydd ag enw da am ragoriaeth ryngwladol, ac ysgol sydd wedi'i lleoli ym Mhorthaethwy ym Môn. A gaf i ddiolch yn fan hyn i'r Llywodraeth am ymateb yn bositif i fy ngalwadau i am gytundeb newydd efo'r brifysgol i sicrhau dyfodol eu llong ymchwil nhw y Prince Madog? Mi fydd angen mwy o gefnogaeth i sicrhau dyfodol yr adnodd yma mewn blynyddoedd i ddod—adnodd sy’n bwysig nid yn unig i ddatblygiadau Môn, ond i’n huchelgeisiau cenedlaethol ni o ran ynni môr.
Awn ni'n ôl i'r tir. Dewn ni i Gaerwen, lle mae parc gwyddoniaeth M-Sparc, eto'n rhan o Brifysgol Bangor, yn dangos beth mae uchelgais yn gallu ei wneud—mae fy nheyrnged i yn fan hyn i'n rhagflaenydd i, Ieuan Wyn Jones, am ddelifro hwnnw. Mae'r ffaith bod M-Sparc wedi llenwi mor sydyn efo arloeswyr sydd wedi penderfynu mai yn Ynys Môn mae eu dyfodol nhw yn ysbrydoliaeth. Dwi'n edrych ymlaen i weld cymal nesaf y datblygiad, a'r cymal nesaf wedyn, yn digwydd fel datganiad o hyder yn ein dyfodol uwch-dechnolegol ac arloesol ni ar yr ynys.
Un datblygiad nad oes gennym ni ddim lleoliad corfforol iddo fo eto, ond un dwi'n edrych ymlaen i'w ddelifro gan Lywodraeth Plaid Cymru, ydy pencadlys y corff ynni cyhoeddus newydd Ynni Cymru, corff fydd yn gallu cynnig cymaint i ni, dwi'n meddwl—yn cydlynu datblygiadau ynni, yn arwain ar y gwaith o greu Cymru wirioneddol wyrdd, yn cynnwys rhaglen retroffitio cartrefi cenedlaethol, ac yn ceisio gyrru prisiau ynni glân hefyd i lawr i bobl Cymru. A lle gwell na'r ynys ynni i fod yn gartref i'r corff newydd yma?
Dyma i chi ddatblygiad ynni arall y byddai Ynni Cymru am helpu ei ddelifro. Mae yna waith hynod o gyffrous wedi bod yn digwydd, dan arweiniad Menter Môn eto, dan y teitl 'ynys hydrogen'. Mi arweiniais i ddadl yn y Senedd ym mis Chwefror yn amlinellu manteision hydrogen o ran yr agenda datgarboneiddio, a hynny ar y diwrnod y cafodd cymdeithas newydd Cymdeithas Masnach Hydrogen Cymru ei lansio. Wel, yn barod, drwy waith hydrogen Môn, rydym ni'n gweld sgôp mawr i ddatblygu hydrogen ar yr ynys, a hynny yn defnyddio ynni glân i'w gynhyrchu o, wedi'i gynhyrchu yn lleol. Eto, dwi'n gofyn i chi, Weinidog, ystyried sut all Llywodraeth Cymru helpu delifro hyn, ac mae yna res o bartneriaid yn barod i'w gefnogi hefyd.
Ond tra bod yna botensial mawr ym maes ynni, gadewch i fi ddod â ni'n ôl at y melinau gwynt yna. Mae traddodiad cynhyrchu bwyd Môn yn un arall sydd yn gryf—mae o'n gryf iawn o hyd, ac yn cryfhau. Dwi wedi bod yn trio pwyso ar y Llywodraeth dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf i ddatblygu parc cynhyrchu bwyd ym Môn—mae'n ddatblygiad perffaith i ni. Ac er mai efo Gweinidog yr amgylchedd a materion gwledig dwi wedi bod yn trafod hyn, mi liciwn i'ch tynnu chithau i mewn fel Gweinidog economi. Beth sydd yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd ydy bod nifer fawr, impressive iawn, a dweud y gwir, o gwmnïau—mwy a mwy o gwmnïau—wedi bod yn gwario ar droi eiddo busnes arall yn llefydd addas i gynhyrchu bwyd. Dwi'n dal yn grediniol y byddai'n well paratoi eiddo pwrpasol ar eu cyfer nhw, a chreu hyb, neu hybs hyd yn oed, cynhyrchu bwyd allai fod yn ffenest siop gyhoeddus hefyd i'r sector yma. Mae'r ganolfan technoleg bwyd yng Ngholeg Menai yn ganolfan eithriadol, wedi'i thyfu'n ddiweddar, ac mi ddylen ni yn lleol fod yn creu y gofod a darparu'r gefnogaeth i fusnesau sy'n dechrau eu taith yno i dyfu a datblygu a chyflogi ym Môn.
Mae'r diwydiant cynhyrchu bwyd yn mynd law yn llaw wrth gwrs efo'r sector amaeth ym Môn, sydd heb ei ail. Mae'n helpu i greu'r ddelwedd werdd yna—delwedd sydd mor bwysig o ran twristiaeth hefyd. Does gen i ddim amser i ganolbwyntio gormod ar dwristiaeth yn fan hyn, ond i ddweud ei fod e mor, mor bwysig i ni. A beth wnaf i ei ddweud ydy mor bwysig ydy hi ein bod ni yn creu diwydiant twristiaeth sydd yn wirioneddol gynaliadwy yn economaidd, yn amgylcheddol ond hefyd yn ddiwylliannol, ac yn gynaliadwy o ran bod yn sensitif i mor fregus ydy'n marchnad dai ni, testun cyfoes iawn ar hyn o bryd. Dwi'n wirioneddol falch o weld beth sy'n teimlo fel trafodaeth go iawn yn dechrau ar hynny o fewn y sector dwristiaeth ym Môn ac yn ehangach. Rŵan, dwi'n meddwl, ydy'r amser i wneud hyn.
Os caf i fynd yn ôl at amaeth, rydym ni'n dod at un o'r heriau mawr sy'n ein wynebu ni, a'r her honno ydy ein hymadawiad ni o'r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Roeddwn i'n rhyfeddu gweld Aelod Seneddol Ceidwadol Ynys Môn yn pleidleisio yn erbyn gwelliannau i'r Bil Amaeth yn Nhŷ'r Cyffredin yn ddiweddar fyddai wedi helpu i warchod buddiannau ffermwyr ym Môn wrth i ni adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Mi fyddai'r gwelliannau wedi gwneud yn siŵr bod mewnforion amaethyddol dan gytundebau masnach newydd yn gorfod cyrraedd yr un safonau uchel â ffermwyr Môn. Mae gwrthod gwelliannau felly yn tanseilio'r ffermwyr y mae hi yn eu cynrychioli. Ac mae hynny, wrth gwrs, ar ben pryderon am golli marchnad oherwydd Brexit.
Ac mae Brexit yn dod â fi at borthladd Caergybi. Mi dyfodd masnach drwy'r porthladd yn rhyfeddol ar ôl creu'r farchnad sengl. Caergybi ydy'r ail borthladd roll-on, roll-off prysuraf ym Mhrydain. Mae wedi siapio economi a chymeriad yr ardal—dros 1,000 yn cael eu cyflogi'n uniongyrchol, a llawer mwy'n anuniongyrchol. Ac mae yna nerfusrwydd go iawn o edrych ar gymal 4 o'r Bil masnach fewnol a'r effaith mae hynny'n debyg o'i gael ar symud llif masnach sy'n dod o Ogledd Iwerddon ar hyn o bryd—rhyw draean o'r traffig i gyd—a symud hwnnw o bosib yn fwy uniongyrchol o Ogledd Iwerddon i Loegr neu i'r Alban.
Os ydy trafferthion, gwaith papur, arafwch yn digwydd—. Maen nhw'n sôn am ddatblygiadau yn Kent ar y newyddion drwy'r amser; prin oes yna sôn am ddatblygu adnoddau yng Nghaergybi. Wythnosau sydd yna i fynd. Mae o'n dweud popeth am agwedd Llywodraeth Prydain tuag at borthladd Caergybi. Mae'r pethau yma'n fy llenwi i a phobl Môn ag ofn, ac mae angen datrysiad. Ond mi wnaf i bopeth i wthio ar Lywodraethau Cymru a'r Deyrnas Unedig i sicrhau bod gennym ni ddyfodol ffyniannus, er gwaethaf Brexit.
I gloi, Llywydd, newyddion da iawn ym Môn y penwythnos diwethaf—rydym ni wedi llwyddo i ddenu Gemau yr Ynysoedd i Ynys Môn yn 2025, neu o bosib rhyw flwyddyn neu ddwy yn hwyrach erbyn hyn, yn dibynnu ar COVID. Maen nhw'n gemau sydd yn gemau hapus iawn, yn tynnu cystadleuwyr—miloedd ohonyn nhw—o ynysoedd ar draws y byd yn un o'r campau mwyaf o'i fath yn y byd o ran multisports. Dwi'n ddiolchgar iawn i'r Llywodraeth am addo cefnogaeth i hwnnw, ac yn ddiolchgar i gyngor Môn. Mae yna griw bach ohonom ni fel pwyllgor wedi bod yn gweithio'n galed i gyrraedd at y pwynt yma, ac yn enwedig, wrth gwrs, mae fy niolch i i wirfoddolwyr Gemau yr Ynysoedd, sy'n gweithio mor galed.
Ond, mewn dyddiau llwm, mae'n dda cael rhywbeth i edrych ymlaen ato fo, ac mi fydd o yn rhywbeth i ni fel cymuned ym Môn edrych ymlaen ato fo. A'r neges heddiw yma, efo'r gefnogaeth iawn gan y Llywodraeth, ac efo ysbryd o fenter oddi mewn: mae yna ddyfodol disglair iawn yn economaidd i edrych ymlaen ato fo yn Ynys Môn heddiw.
Like so many energy developments, it's supported by expertise from School of Ocean Sciences at Bangor University, a school with a reputation for international excellence, and a school located in Menai Bridge on Anglesey. And may I thank the Government here for a positive response to my calls for a renewed agreement with the university to secure the future for their research vessel, the Prince Madog? There will be need for further support for this resource in years to come, which is important not only to developments on Anglesey, but to our national energy ambitions too.
Now, to return to the land, and to Gaerwen, where the M-Sparc science park, again part of Bangor University, shows what ambition can deliver. And I pay tribute to my predecessor, Ieuan Wyn Jones, for delivering that. The fact that M-Sparc has filled so quickly with innovators who have decided that their future is on Anglesey is an inspiration. I look forward to seeing the next phase of the development, and the following phase, as a statement of confidence in our hi-tech and innovative future on the island.
One development that we don't yet have a physical location for, but one that I'm looking forward to see delivered by a Plaid Cymru Government, is the headquarters of a new public energy body, Ynni Cymru, a body that can offer so much to us—co-ordinating energy developments, leading on the creation of a truly green Wales, including a national retrofitting programme, and trying to drive clean energy prices down for the people of Wales. And where better than the energy island to house this new body?
Here's another energy development that Ynni Cymru could help to develop. There is some very exciting work happening under the auspices of Menter Môn again, entitled 'hydrogen island'. Now, I led a debate in the Senedd in February outlining the benefits of hydrogen in the decarbonisation agenda on the day of the launch of the new Wales Hydrogen Trade Association. Well, already, through the work of hydrogen Môn, we are seeing major scope to develop hydrogen on the island, using clean energy to produce it, produced locally. Again, I ask you, Minister, to consider how the Welsh Government can help to deliver this, and there are a raft of partners ready to support this.
But, whilst there is huge potential in the energy sector, let me bring you back to those windmills I mentioned. The tradition of food production on Anglesey is still strong and growing. I've been trying to persuade the Government over the last few years to develop a major food production facility in Anglesey—it's a perfect development for us. And although I've been discussing this issue with the Minister for environment and rural affairs, I would like to draw you in as the Minister for economy too. What's happening at the moment is that an impressive number of companies—more and more companies indeed—have been spending on converting other business premises into appropriate places for food production. I am still convinced that it would be better to prepare bespoke properties for them, to create a hub, or even hubs, for food production, which could also be a shop window for the sector too. The food technology centre at Coleg Menai is exceptional, it's grown recently, and we should be creating the spaces locally and providing the support to businesses starting their journey, so that they can grow and develop and employ people on Anglesey.
Of course, the food production industry goes hand in hand with the agricultural sector in Anglesey, which is second to none. It helps to create that green image—an image that's so important in terms of tourism too. Now, I don't have time to focus too much on tourism here, but I will say that it is hugely important to us. What I will also say is how important it is to create a tourism industry that is truly sustainable economically, environmentally and culturally, and also sustainable in terms of being sensitive to the fragility of our housing market, a very topical issue at the moment. I'm truly pleased to see what feels like a real debate starting on that within the tourism sector in Anglesey and beyond. I think now is the time for that to happen.
Returning to agriculture, we are facing one of the biggest challenges that we have faced, and that is our departure from the European Union. I was amazed to see the Conservative Anglesey MP voting against amendments to the Agriculture Bill in the Commons recently that would have helped to protect the interests of farmers in Anglesey as we depart the European Union. The amendments would have made sure that agricultural imports under new trade agreements had to meet the same high standards as the farmers of Anglesey. By rejecting such amendments, she undermined the farmers that she is representing. That, of course, is on top of fears of losing markets because of Brexit.
And Brexit brings me to the port of Holyhead. Trade through the port grew incredibly quickly after the creation of the European single market. Holyhead is the second largest roll-on, roll-off port in Britain. It has shaped the economy and character of the area—over 1,000 people are directly employed and many more indirectly. And there is a real nervousness in looking at clause 40 of the internal market Bill and the likely impact that that will have on the flow of trade coming from Northern Ireland at the moment—a third of the traffic in total—that would move perhaps to England or even to Scotland.
If difficulties and paperwork and delays happen—. They talk about developments in Kent on the news all the time, but there's hardly any talk about developing resources in Holyhead, and there are only weeks to go until departure. It tells you everything about the attitude of the UK Government towards the port of Holyhead. These things do fill me and the people of Anglesey with dread, and we need a solution. But I will do everything I can to urge the Welsh and UK Governments to ensure that we have a prosperous future, despite Brexit.
Now, to conclude, Llywydd, very good news on Anglesey last weekend—we succeeded in attracting the Island Games to Anglesey in 2025, or perhaps a year or two later, depending on COVID. They are games that are very happy; they draw thousands of sportspeople from islands across the world to one of the biggest events of its kind in the world in terms of multisports. I'm very grateful to the Government for pledging its support for that, and also Anglesey council. There's been a small group of us as a committee that have been working hard to reach this point, and I would like to thank the Island Games volunteers, who have worked so very hard.
But, in these parlous times, it's good to have something to look forward to, and it will be something for us as a community in Anglesey to look forward to. And the message today, with the right support from Government, and with a spirit of enterprise: there is a very bright economic future that we can look forward to on Anglesey.
Galwaf ar Weinidog yr Economi, Trafnidiaeth a Gogledd Cymru, Ken Skates.
I call on the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales, Ken Skates.
Diolch, acting Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I begin by thanking Rhun ap Iorwerth for bringing forward this short debate today, and also thank the Member for his participation in last week's round-table discussion concerning the future of the Wylfa site?
There's no escaping the severity of the wider economic situation that we face right now across Wales, across the globe, and particularly on Ynys Môn, where a number of unfortunate announcements have been made in recent times. On Anglesey, we've already provided, though, £4.1 million of support to more than 250 businesses through the first two phases of the economic resilience fund as we try to fight the economic impact of the virus, and that funding will help those businesses through the pandemic.
Now, the funding is over and above what was announced by the UK Government and, just this Monday, I announced the next phase of the economic resilience fund, a further £140 million for businesses across Wales to help them deal with the economic challenges of COVID-19 and also—also—the UK's impending exit from the EU transition period.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd dros dro. A gaf fi ddechrau drwy ddiolch i Rhun ap Iorwerth am gyflwyno'r ddadl fer hon heddiw, a diolch hefyd i'r Aelod am gymryd rhan yn y drafodaeth bord gron yr wythnos diwethaf ynghylch dyfodol safle'r Wylfa?
Nid oes dianc rhag difrifoldeb y sefyllfa economaidd ehangach sy'n ein hwynebu ar hyn o bryd ledled Cymru, ledled y byd, ac yn enwedig ar Ynys Môn, lle mae nifer o gyhoeddiadau anffodus wedi'u gwneud yn ddiweddar. Serch hynny, ar Ynys Môn, rydym eisoes wedi darparu £4.1 miliwn o gymorth i fwy na 250 o fusnesau drwy ddau gam cyntaf y gronfa cadernid economaidd wrth inni geisio ymladd effaith economaidd y feirws, a bydd y cyllid hwnnw'n helpu'r busnesau hynny drwy'r pandemig.
Nawr, mae'r cyllid yn ychwanegol at yr hyn a gyhoeddwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU, a ddydd Llun, cyhoeddais gam nesaf y gronfa cadernid economaidd, £140 miliwn arall i fusnesau ledled Cymru i'w helpu i ymdopi â heriau economaidd COVID-19 a hefyd—hefyd—ymadawiad arfaethedig y DU o gyfnod pontio'r UE.
Now, a key component of Anglesey's economy is, as Rhun has identified, tourism and hospitality. So, the £20 million that has been ring-fenced as part of the third phase of the economic resilience fund will be vitally important to many businesses on the island. We're also looking at how we can use the third phase of the ERF to stimulate employment opportunities for under 25-year-olds. There will be an incentive to take on young people who would otherwise be further marginalised and left behind as we look towards a recovery.
Now, I have to say to Members I do welcome the Chancellor's recent decision to extend the VAT reduction for the hospitality and tourism sector until March of next year. I also welcomed his decision to extend repayment deadlines for businesses that have deferred VAT and provide more flexibility for businesses that have taken out Government-backed loans. Overall, though, the measures announced back on 24 September are unlikely to be sufficient to prevent a large rise in unemployment in the months ahead.
Here, in Wales, we've made the pledge to support everybody to find work, education or training or to start their own businesses, and we're supporting that pledge with £90 million of funding. The economic recovery group for the north Wales region is also considering how we can collectively deliver support to businesses right across north Wales in line with the significant support that we're already providing across the whole of Wales through the Business Wales service.
In the meantime, we'll continue to press the UK Government to take bolder steps to assure our economic recovery and support future prosperity for businesses and people across the UK. We were, naturally, deeply, deeply disappointed by the announcement by Hitachi back in mid September. And I know, I am acutely aware of how the announcement has been felt on the island, and in particular in the north of Anglesey. It'll impact, as Rhun has identified, not just on Anglesey communities, but also on the north-west of Wales and indeed the wider region of north Wales. Wylfa, though, is still the very best site in the UK and Europe. It's a fantastic site, it's one of the best for large gigabyte scale nuclear or small modular reactors, and I remain confident that this is not the end of the road.
We can only address the challenges we are now facing by working collaboratively for the benefit of the people, businesses and communities of north Wales and Ynys Môn. Co-ordinating and co-designing our short, medium and long-term actions and priorities is a key and that's why I hosted that round-table event that I've already mentioned, which Rhun ap Iorwerth attended. I thought it was a constructive meeting, where we took stock of the Hitachi announcement, naturally, but where we also agreed on our respective roles and responsibilities on the next steps. Several issues were raised at that meeting and, indeed, in pre meetings with the leader of Ynys Môn council. Many have already been raised by Rhun ap Iorwerth, including not only the future of the Wylfa site, obviously, but also other important matters, such as the need to establish a border control post on the island. So, I'll now be holding regular tripartite meetings with the Secretary of State for Wales and the leader of Ynys Môn council to discuss the progress that we are all making on developing these important matters.
In the meantime, of course, we'll continue to provide every support possible to businesses on Anglesey, and Rhun ap Iorwerth has today identified numerous opportunities on the island that we as a Welsh Government are investing in. We're currently working with both Menter Môn and Ynys Môn county council on funding for a feasibility study for a green hydrogen production plant and a fuelling distribution hub on the island, and this will further develop plans to establish an embryonic hydrogen economy on Ynys Môn and for the north-west of Wales as a region.
We're also supporting other businesses, such as Joloda Hydraroll in the community area of Gaerwen, Rondo in Llangefni and, of course, Boxed Solutions at Parc Cybi in Holyhead. All three businesses, either with or following initial Welsh Government funding, are now planning their future expansion programmes, and we're pleased to be able to offer our support to these important projects.
We continue to regularly collaborate with the local authority to further enhance the business-ready infrastructure, such as transport links and other benefits that can be realised within the Anglesey enterprise zone. We've recently invested £1.6 million, as part of a joint venture with the local authority, to deliver 30,000 square feet of new industrial starter units at Penrhos, which are due for completion just next month.
On energy, hugely important, as Rhun has identified, not just in terms of providing employment, but in giving the island, and indeed north Wales, a great positive image. Ynys Môn is leading the way; it's leading the way in terms of innovation, ensuring flexibility and smart approaches to electricity networks. The island is also becoming a hub for tidal stream development, but further development will be dependent on revenue support from the UK Government. I can assure Members that we'll be providing further evidence for the need for UK Government revenue support for marine technologies in the current call for evidence. And I'm proud that Wales has two zones for demonstrating wave and tidal streams arrays, reducing some of the uncertainties that lead to a high cost of capital and providing developers with opportunities. Both are supported with EU funding, one being the Morlais site in Anglesey.
Rhun ap Iorwerth also mentioned another key sector for Ynys Môn, that being the food production sector, and I was delighted that one of the most innovative proposals to the foundation and economy challenge fund came from Anglesey. It was the Môn shellfish programme, which is seeking to introduce more shellfish into schools, community centres, introducing people to what is, actually, a relatively simple way of cooking—I know that, because I took part in one of their cookery classes—and I'm hopeful that this particular challenge fund innovation will be a great success. All of the indications are that it already has been, in many communities across Ynys Môn.
And, of course, the Island Games success that Rhun has pointed to. What a fantastic shot in the arm; we desperately needed good news, and Team Ynys Môn delivered it for us. And I was delighted that, as Welsh Government, we were able to sign off at £400,000 to help secure and deliver this fantastic event.
I have to mention the growth deal, of course, the north Wales growth deal. It's progressing well and it will be an important component of future recovery across north Wales. There will be several opportunities, as I know Members are aware, for projects on Anglesey through the growth deal. It provides an opportunity for north Wales to bring forward renewable energy and innovative low-carbon projects, and we're exploring the wider potential of Holyhead port as a fine gateway to north Wales and to the UK. So, I remain focused, I can assure Members, on signing that final deal agreement, the growth deal, by the end of this year, with the North Wales Economic Ambition Board and the UK Government, so that capital investment can start flowing through the region and to Ynys Môn in 2021. So, I'll naturally keep Members updated, and I'll work across party political divide in a concerted and collaborative effort to strengthen the economy and the communities of Ynys Môn.
Nawr, elfen allweddol o economi Ynys Môn, fel y nododd Rhun, yw twristiaeth a lletygarwch. Felly, bydd yr £20 miliwn sydd wedi'i neilltuo fel rhan o drydydd cam y gronfa cadernid economaidd yn hanfodol bwysig i lawer o fusnesau ar yr ynys. Rydym hefyd yn edrych ar sut y gallwn ddefnyddio trydydd cam y gronfa cadernid economaidd i ysgogi cyfleoedd cyflogaeth i rai dan 25 oed. Bydd cymhelliad i gyflogi pobl ifanc a fyddai fel arall yn cael eu gwthio i'r cyrion ymhellach a'u gadael ar ôl wrth inni edrych tuag at adferiad.
Nawr, rhaid imi ddweud wrth yr Aelodau fy mod yn croesawu penderfyniad diweddar y Canghellor i ymestyn y gostyngiad TAW i'r sector lletygarwch a thwristiaeth tan fis Mawrth y flwyddyn nesaf. Roeddwn hefyd yn croesawu ei benderfyniad i ymestyn terfynau amser ad-dalu i fusnesau sydd wedi gohirio TAW a rhoi mwy o hyblygrwydd i fusnesau sydd wedi cael benthyciadau a gefnogir gan y Llywodraeth. Yn gyffredinol, serch hynny, mae'r mesurau a gyhoeddwyd ar 24 Medi yn annhebygol o fod yn ddigonol i atal cynnydd mawr mewn diweithdra yn y misoedd i ddod.
Yma, yng Nghymru, rydym wedi addo cynorthwyo pawb i ddod o hyd i waith, addysg neu hyfforddiant neu i ddechrau eu busnesau eu hunain, ac rydym yn cefnogi'r addewid hwnnw gyda £90 miliwn o gyllid. Mae'r grŵp adferiad economaidd ar gyfer rhanbarth gogledd Cymru hefyd yn ystyried sut y gallwn ddarparu cymorth ar y cyd i fusnesau ar draws gogledd Cymru yn unol â'r cymorth sylweddol rydym eisoes yn ei ddarparu ym mhob rhan o Gymru drwy wasanaeth Busnes Cymru.
Yn y cyfamser, byddwn yn parhau i bwyso ar Lywodraeth y DU i roi camau mwy beiddgar ar waith er mwyn sicrhau ein hadferiad economaidd a chefnogi ffyniant busnesau a phobl ledled y DU yn y dyfodol. Yn naturiol, roeddem yn hynod siomedig ynghylch y cyhoeddiad gan Hitachi ganol mis Medi. Ac rwy'n ymwybodol iawn o sut roedd pobl yr ynys yn teimlo am y cyhoeddiad, ac yn enwedig yng ngogledd Ynys Môn. Fel y nododd Rhun, bydd yn effeithio nid yn unig ar gymunedau Ynys Môn, ond hefyd ar ogledd-orllewin Cymru ac yn wir ar ranbarth ehangach gogledd Cymru. Er hynny, Wylfa yw'r safle gorau yn y DU ac Ewrop o hyd. Mae'n safle gwych, mae'n un o'r goreuon ar gyfer adweithyddion niwclear ar raddfa gigabeit neu adweithyddion modiwlar bach, ac rwy'n dal i fod yn hyderus nad dyma ddiwedd y daith.
Ni allwn fynd i'r afael â'r heriau sy'n ein hwynebu yn awr heb gydweithio er budd pobl, busnesau a chymunedau gogledd Cymru ac Ynys Môn. Mae cydlynu a chydgynllunio ein gweithredoedd a'n blaenoriaethau tymor byr, tymor canolig a hirdymor yn allweddol a dyna pam y cynhaliais y digwyddiad bord gron a grybwyllais eisoes, cyfarfod a fynychwyd gan Rhun ap Iorwerth. Roeddwn o'r farn ei fod yn gyfarfod adeiladol, lle buom yn pwyso a mesur cyhoeddiad Hitachi, yn naturiol, ond daethom i gytundeb hefyd ynglŷn â'n priod rolau a chyfrifoldebau ar y camau nesaf. Codwyd nifer o faterion yn y cyfarfod hwnnw ac yn wir, mewn cyfarfodydd ymlaen llaw gydag arweinydd cyngor Ynys Môn. Mae llawer o bethau eisoes wedi cael sylw gan Rhun ap Iorwerth, gan gynnwys dyfodol safle Wylfa, yn amlwg, ond materion pwysig eraill hefyd, megis yr angen i sefydlu safle rheoli ffiniau ar yr ynys. Felly, byddaf yn awr yn cynnal cyfarfodydd teirochrog rheolaidd gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ac arweinydd cyngor Ynys Môn i drafod y cynnydd y mae pawb ohonom yn ei wneud ar ddatblygu'r materion pwysig hyn.
Yn y cyfamser, wrth gwrs, byddwn yn parhau i ddarparu pob cymorth posibl i fusnesau ar Ynys Môn, a heddiw, nododd Rhun ap Iorwerth nifer o gyfleoedd ar yr ynys rydym ni fel Llywodraeth Cymru yn buddsoddi ynddynt. Ar hyn o bryd rydym yn gweithio gyda Menter Môn a chyngor sir Ynys Môn ar gyllid gogyfer ag astudiaeth ddichonoldeb ar gyfer gwaith cynhyrchu hydrogen gwyrdd a chanolfan ddosbarthu tanwydd ar yr ynys, a bydd yn datblygu cynlluniau pellach i sefydlu economi hydrogen embryonig ar Ynys Môn ac ar gyfer gogledd-orllewin Cymru fel rhanbarth.
Rydym hefyd yn cefnogi busnesau eraill, megis Joloda Hydraroll yn ardal gymunedol Gaerwen, Rondo yn Llangefni ac wrth gwrs, Boxed Solutions ym Mharc Cybi yng Nghaergybi. Mae'r tri busnes, naill ai gyda, neu'n dilyn cyllid cychwynnol gan Lywodraeth Cymru, bellach yn cynllunio eu rhaglenni ehangu yn y dyfodol, ac rydym yn falch o allu cynnig ein cefnogaeth i'r prosiectau pwysig hyn.
Rydym yn parhau i gydweithio'n rheolaidd â'r awdurdod lleol i wella'r seilwaith parod ar gyfer busnes, megis cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth a manteision eraill y gellir eu gwireddu yn ardal fenter Ynys Môn. Rydym wedi buddsoddi £1.6 miliwn yn ddiweddar fel rhan o fenter ar y cyd â'r awdurdod lleol i ddarparu 30,000 troedfedd sgwâr o unedau cychwynnol diwydiannol newydd ym Mhenrhos, sydd i'w cwblhau fis nesaf.
Ar ynni, sy'n eithriadol o bwysig fel y mae Rhun wedi'i nodi, nid yn unig o ran darparu cyflogaeth, ond er mwyn rhoi delwedd gadarnhaol wych i'r ynys, ac yn wir i ogledd Cymru. Mae Ynys Môn yn arwain y ffordd; mae'n arwain y ffordd o ran arloesi, gan sicrhau hyblygrwydd a rhwydweithiau trydan clyfar. Mae'r ynys hefyd yn dod yn ganolbwynt ar gyfer datblygu llif llanw, ond bydd datblygiad pellach yn dibynnu ar gymorth refeniw gan Lywodraeth y DU. Gallaf sicrhau'r Aelodau y byddwn yn darparu rhagor o dystiolaeth o'r angen am gymorth refeniw gan Lywodraeth y DU ar gyfer technolegau morol yn yr alwad gyfredol am dystiolaeth. Ac rwy'n falch fod gan Gymru ddau barth ar gyfer arddangos araeau tonnau a llanw, gan leihau peth o'r ansicrwydd sy'n arwain at gost uchel cyfalaf a darparu cyfleoedd i ddatblygwyr. Cefnogir y ddau â chyllid yr UE, ac un ohonynt yw safle Morlais yn Ynys Môn.
Soniodd Rhun ap Iorwerth hefyd am sector allweddol arall ar Ynys Môn, sef y sector cynhyrchu bwyd, ac roeddwn wrth fy modd fod un o'r cynigion mwyaf arloesol i gronfa her yr economi sylfaenol yn dod o Ynys Môn, sef rhaglen pysgod cregyn Môn, sy'n ceisio cyflwyno mwy o bysgod cregyn i ysgolion, canolfannau cymunedol, a chyflwyno pobl i'r hyn sydd, mewn gwirionedd, yn ffordd gymharol syml o goginio—gwn hynny, oherwydd cymerais ran yn un o'u dosbarthiadau coginio—ac rwy'n obeithiol y bydd y cynllun hwn o dan y gronfa her yn llwyddiant mawr. Mae'r holl arwyddion yn dynodi ei fod eisoes wedi bod yn llwyddiant mewn llawer o gymunedau ar draws Ynys Môn.
Ac wrth gwrs, llwyddiant Gemau'r Ynys y cyfeiriodd Rhun ato. Am gyfle gwych; roedd taer angen newyddion da arnom, a chafodd ei roi i ni gan Dîm Ynys Môn. Ac roeddwn wrth fy modd ein bod, fel Llywodraeth Cymru, wedi gallu cyfrannu £400,000 i helpu i sicrhau'r digwyddiad gwych hwn.
Rhaid i mi sôn am y fargen twf, wrth gwrs, bargen twf gogledd Cymru. Mae'n mynd rhagddo'n dda a bydd yn elfen bwysig yn adferiad gogledd Cymru yn y dyfodol. Bydd nifer o gyfleoedd, fel y gwn fod yr Aelodau'n gwybod, ar gyfer prosiectau ar Ynys Môn drwy'r fargen twf. Mae'n rhoi cyfle i ogledd Cymru gyflwyno prosiectau ynni adnewyddadwy a charbon isel arloesol, ac rydym yn archwilio potensial ehangach porthladd Caergybi fel porth gwych i ogledd Cymru ac i'r DU. Felly, gallaf sicrhau'r Aelodau fy mod yn dal i anelu at lofnodi'r cytundeb terfynol hwnnw, y fargen twf, erbyn diwedd eleni, gyda Bwrdd Uchelgais Economaidd Gogledd Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU, fel y gall buddsoddiad cyfalaf ddechrau llifo drwy'r rhanbarth ac i Ynys Môn yn 2021. Felly, byddaf yn naturiol yn rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Aelodau, a byddaf yn gweithio ar draws rhaniadau pleidiol mewn ymdrech ar y cyd ac yn gydweithredol i gryfhau economi a chymunedau Ynys Môn.
Diolch yn fawr. Daw hynny â thrafodion heddiw i ben.
Thank you very much. That brings today's proceedings to a close.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 19:08.
The meeting ended at 19:08.