Y Cyfarfod Llawn - Y Bumed Senedd
Plenary - Fifth Senedd
23/09/2020Cynnwys
Contents
In the bilingual version, the left-hand column includes the language used during the meeting. The right-hand column includes a translation of those speeches.
The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:31 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.
Welcome to this Plenary session. Before we begin, I want to set out a few points. This meeting is in hybrid format, with some Members in the Senedd Chamber and others joining by video-conference. A Plenary meeting held using video-conference, in accordance with the Standing Orders of the Welsh Parliament, constitute Senedd proceedings for the purposes of the Government of Wales Act 2006. Some of the provisions of Standing Order 34 will apply for today's Plenary meeting, and those are noted on your agenda. And I would remind Members also that Standing Orders relating to order in Plenary meetings apply to this meeting, and apply equally to Members in the Siambr as to those joining virtually.
The first item on our agenda this afternoon is the statement by the First Minister on the coronavirus. Thank you to the First Minister for agreeing to bring this statement forward, but may I remind everyone that it's the expectation of Senedd Members and myself as the Llywydd that statements of this significance should be made at the earliest possible opportunity to the Senedd, on all occasions? The First Minister to make the statement—Mark Drakeford.

Llywydd, thank you very much. Today, I will report to the Senedd on the latest developments as we act to control the coronavirus in Wales. Unfortunately, after a long period of gradual decline in the number of cases, we are once again seeing significant increases. We must respond robustly. A number of important measures are in place across Wales already. Over the last week, we have also introduced local restrictions in the areas where the increases in cases are steepest. Yesterday, I announced additional measures at a national level, following discussions with the other UK Governments.
Llywydd, I will begin by setting out the latest evidence about the spread of coronavirus in Wales. Fortunately, we are not yet facing the same extensive pressures as some other parts of the UK. This is thanks in part to our more cautious approach and the measures we have kept in place since the outset of the pandemic, such as our advice for people to work from home wherever possible. It is also thanks to the hard work and efforts of everyone in Wales who have followed the rules and helped to control the spread of the virus.
Nevertheless, we have seen a marked increase in cases of coronavirus since the last weeks of August. The overall rate in Wales is now 46.8 cases per 100,000 people. Yet, the picture across Wales is mixed. In parts of south Wales, we have seen large clusters and outbreaks of the virus that have led to community transmission. Llywydd, Members will be aware that we have responded to these sharp increases in Blaenau Gwent, Bridgend, Caerphilly borough, Merthyr Tydfil, Newport and Rhondda Cynon Taf by introducing local restrictions over the course of the last fortnight. The most recent of these came into force last night, as the health Minister set out in his statement to Members yesterday. But in other parts of Wales, in the west and in parts of north Wales, for example, the rates continue to be much lower.
It is sad to report, Llywydd, that we are, once again, however, seeing people admitted to hospital, requiring treatment for the serious effects of coronavirus, and particularly sadly, in the last week, we have once again seen people dying from this disease. Now is the time to take some concerted further action to try to prevent coronavirus regaining a foothold in our local communities, towns and cities.
Yesterday, I discussed a series of proposals for co-ordinated action across the UK with the First Ministers of Scotland and Northern Ireland and the Prime Minister. Many of the proposals talked about there are already in place in Wales. We have taken a different approach that is suitable to our needs and circumstances. We have been more cautious in relaxing restrictions, we have lifted restrictions step by step and we have kept some advice in place throughout the pandemic—actions and advice that other parts of the UK are now returning to adopt.
We have all done so much already, but if we are to continue making a positive difference to this virus, all Welsh citizens need to go on following that approach. It means working from home, wherever possible—a message that is as relevant to employers as it is for workers. We must all follow the rules about meeting indoors. If you are living in an area already under local restrictions, you can only meet people who you do not live with outdoors for the time being. In other parts of Wales, up to six people can meet indoors, provided they all come from one extended household, and children under 11 do not count towards that six here in Wales.
It's now a requirement that we must wear face coverings on public transport, in shops, and in other indoor public places. And I am asking people in Wales to think carefully about where we go and who we meet, because the more places we go to and the more people we come in contact with, the greater the chances we have of catching coronavirus and spreading it to others.
Llywydd, to help strengthen our response to coronavirus and prevent a fresh crisis in Wales, we are introducing some new measures, which will apply on a national basis, including in those areas that are subject to local restrictions. To assist people who are asked to self-isolate, we will provide a £500 payment to support people on low incomes, and we will make a change to Welsh law to stop employers from making it difficult for employees to self-isolate when they need to do so.
And alongside other UK nations, we will introduce some targeted action in the hospitality sector. The great majority of hospitality businesses have made changes to their premises and introduced new protocols to protect customers and staff. And I am immensely grateful for all the efforts that they have made to comply with the legal requirements we have here in Wales. Unfortunately, we have seen some isolated examples of poor practice, and I am very glad to see local authorities taking enforcement action where there have been breaches of the regulations. We're now asking the hospitality sector to go further. From tomorrow, at 6 p.m., hospitality businesses in Wales, including pubs, cafes, restaurants and casinos, will have to stop selling alcohol at 10 p.m. They will also have to provide table service only. Off-licences, including supermarkets, will also have to stop selling alcohol at 10 o'clock in the evening.
Llywydd, I also want to use this opportunity to update Members about a meeting I held yesterday with the leaders of the local authorities across south Wales, together with the NHS, police, and police and crime commissioners. We discussed the local restrictions already in place, their impact on neighbouring authorities and whether those local restrictions should be extended to other local council areas. We agreed that we continue to need to be able to act swiftly and to take preventative action where possible, but also that this has to be proportionate to the risk. We should only put new restrictions on people's lives and livelihoods where it is proportionate to do so. Llywydd, there was agreement from all partners that our Welsh partnership approach is fundamental in responding to the virus—educating, informing and then firm enforcement where that is necessary.
2020 has been an incredibly difficult year for so many people in Wales, but we have succeeded the most where we have acted together to protect our families and to look out for our neighbours. We all now need to do that together once again. We need everybody in Wales to follow the rules, to act in accordance with the guidance and to take those steps to protect ourselves and our loved ones. Together, we can still keep Wales safe. Llywydd, diolch yn fawr.
Thank you, First Minister, for your statement this afternoon. I have to say I bitterly regret that you weren't in a position to make this statement yesterday before your tv broadcast, like the other First Ministers and Prime Minister across the UK who spoke to their respective Parliaments. And I hope that you will apologise for that discourtesy, because the BBC were putting up a story at 6 o'clock, despite Members being told at 5.30 p.m., that no decision had been taken by the Government, and told just before 8 o'clock. We need to get back to a parliamentary democracy functioning here, where the Parliament actually debates and discusses these regulations and then votes on them, and I think an apology is needed from you today because yesterday was a deplorable act on your behalf, not coming before the Assembly and addressing it in a manner that should be fitting of a national Parliament.
Could I ask you also about the six-month timeline that the Prime Minister and the First Ministers of Scotland and Northern Ireland have talked about? Is that a timeline for these restrictions, and a look forward as to when we might see some respite from the virus that you subscribe to and that other leaders in other parts of the United Kingdom signed up to, or do you have a different view?
Could I also ask why it is the case that you haven't resumed shielding, given the increased incidence of the virus in certain parts of Wales, and what measures have been put in place to protect care homes, given the increased prevalence of the virus?
I'd also like to try and understand the science behind the 10 o'clock cut-off time for serving alcohol within licensed premises as opposed to closing licensed premises at 10 o'clock. This, obviously, is different to other parts of the United Kingdom, and there's nothing stopping someone at two minutes to 10 ordering a large round of drinks and staying within a licensed premises to consume those drinks. So, I'd like to understand the science and the advice that you've received about that difference in the interpretation of the 10 p.m. cut-off here in Wales.
Also, could you confirm whether any additional powers or regs were required from the all-agency meeting that you chaired yesterday from partner organisations that you're working with from across Wales? And, importantly, could you reaffirm that the NHS is very much open here in Wales for business, and it is imperative that people, when they need to seek additional help and support from the NHS, do interact with it, and that, ultimately, we should be moving to COVID-lite hospitals so that procedures can begin in real volume and so we can start addressing some of the horrendous waiting times we've had build up over the summer months? Earlier in the week, I touched on the point that a 60 per cent decline in procedures had occurred over the six months since the first national lockdown, and I hope you will agree with me it's vitally important that we start addressing some of the concerns people have about access and services within the Welsh NHS.
And my last point to you, First Minister, is that with the return of students to universities, FE colleges and other facilities across Wales, it is vital that the mental health of students is guarded by universities and protected, because many young people will be leaving home for the first time in what is normally a celebratory mood and something of a great adventure, but, with many of the regulations, there is a real risk of isolation on campus happening if, obviously, support is not put in place. And I'd be pleased to try and understand what engagement the sector is having with the Welsh Government to make sure that students do not fall foul of some of these regulations that are put in place to protect them and also the host communities that the universities are located in. Thank you, First Minister.

Llywydd, Andrew R.T. Davies very fairly put the point to me yesterday about making a statement to the Senedd as soon as I was able to do so. I said in my answer to him then that I could not guarantee that all the necessary decisions would have been made in time to make such a statement while the Senedd was still in session yesterday.
The decisions we are making all the time in the Welsh Government are fundamentally important decisions that have an impact on the lives of so many of our fellow citizens. Those decisions were still being made well into the evening yesterday. I don't make an apology for coming in front of the Senedd at 1.30 p.m. today, because that is the earliest moment at which I am able to report to you on decisions that were being made yesterday, and being made in consultation with our partners and with all the seriousness that Senedd Members would expect us to apply to these very difficult and challenging times.
Having said that, I'm very happy to reply to the other points that Andrew R.T. Davies has made this afternoon. We review our regulations every three weeks. That's not the case in all other parts of the United Kingdom. That means we are able to act swiftly and flexibly to changing circumstances. While I am fearful that a number of the national measures we have had to put in place will last for some weeks or maybe even months, I don't want to put an artificial deadline on for how long they will last, because we will review them every three weeks and we will report every three weeks, both to the Welsh public and to the Senedd, on the extent to which they are still necessary. And if we were in the fortunate position of being able to lift those restrictions more quickly than six months, that is what I would wish to see, and that is the way we have approached this matter throughout the crisis and that's how I intend to continue to navigate through these difficult times.
On the shielding population, there was no discussion at the COBRA meeting yesterday—no fresh advice to any of the Governments of the UK about returning to shielding. Shielding is a course of action that brings harms as well as protections. We know that many of those people who we asked to self-isolate in that way suffered from isolation and from an impact on their mental health and well-being. I know that the Chief Medical Officer for Wales is considering writing again to all the people who continue to be on our shielding list in Wales, updating them on the current position, providing them with further advice. But a blanket return to the position we had earlier in the year is not under consideration at this point in any part of the United Kingdom as far as I am aware. We will keep that too under very careful review.
As for the 10 o'clock point, I was influenced in the discussions, which, as I say, went on well into the evening, by information I was receiving from the hospitality sector, particularly those restaurants that have worked hard to put a business model in place in Wales in which they are able to have two groups of people come into a restaurant in an evening: a first group at 7 o'clock in the evening, a break for necessary cleaning and coronavirus protections to take place, and then a further set of people who come to the restaurant at between 8.30 p.m. and 9 o'clock in the evening. We could have had an approach in Wales where, at 10 o'clock, all those people were required to leave and stand on the pavement. I think that would have caused real damage to that business model that people have worked so hard to put in place.
And every time we make these decisions, we are balancing the needs of people in business and in employment with the need to protect public health. I think the sector is very used to not allowing people to act irresponsibly in the few minutes leading up to a 10 o'clock closure. Our system will allow people to drink up, to eat up, to bring their evening to an orderly close and then make their way home. That is the way the vast majority of people who go out for an evening here in Wales behave already. I didn't want to make their lives more difficult while we continue to bear down on that minority of people in Wales who have, as the evening gets later, found themselves consuming alcohol to an extent that they can no longer remember where they have been or who they have met with, and who, in the process, cause a wholly disproportionate impact on others.
In our meeting last evening, of course we talked about whether a regional approach was now necessary in Wales. It was a very useful meeting; I was very grateful to all the agencies who took time to attend. As I said in my statement, Llywydd, the balance of opinion was that we've not yet reached that point, that there are still local measures in the hands of those local authorities that they are able to take alongside the new national measures that I outlined in my statement to Members. But the emphasis was also on the need for us to remain right on top of the figures, acting swiftly if we need to, and, if further action is required to protect public health, we will not hesitate to do so.
Let me reinforce the important points that Andrew R.T. Davies made about the NHS remaining open for business. Such hard work has gone on in the NHS to create COVID-secure areas, to put new protections in place so that people who need treatment for other conditions can feel confident in coming forward for them, and that is very much the message from the NHS in Wales. If you need treatment, please be sure the NHS is still there for you in Wales.
Finally, to Andrew R.T. Davies's point about students, he's absolutely right: at the age of 18, people going away to university, it is a great adventure in their lives. Sadly, this year, that adventure will be very different. We work really closely with all the higher education institutions here in Wales to make sure that those students coming from other parts of the United Kingdom and from overseas will still have as good an experience as we can possibly provide for them, whilst still needing them too to play their part in keeping themselves safe and not posing risks unnecessarily to other people in the localities that they will now be resident in, and will inevitably have anxieties of their own about what the future might hold.

I welcome this opportunity to discuss the Wales-wide measures announced yesterday by the First Minister. However, I also want to place on record how unacceptable it is that we weren't afforded this opportunity yesterday. The Senedd has been sidelined time and time again in favour of government by press briefing. It wasn't the case, as you were told, Llywydd, that we couldn't debate this yesterday evening as the First Minister had not yet decided, because, literally within minutes of leaving the Chamber after close of proceedings, I was told in detail by the BBC what the Government had decided. As well as being disrespectful to you, Llywydd, it undermines this institution and our roles as elected Members, it prevents proper democratic scrutiny and it's corrosive of trust. And if the First Minister wants to contradict me, perhaps he can tell us when he recorded the pre-recorded message then later relayed to the nation.
In turning to the content of the announcement, I wholeheartedly agree with the First Minister when he says there's a very real possibility that we all have to take seriously that Wales could see the virus regain a foothold in our communities. It seems to us, however, that in the announcement last night, at least, the Government is seemingly at odds with the advice given to Ministers by the technical advisory cell, who state in their latest report published yesterday that an earlier and more comprehensive response can prevent extended lockdowns. And the evidence before us, the reason that we're having this statement, suggests that the response to date has neither been early nor comprehensive. As Wales's former chief medical officer says today, the rising wave of cases in Wales suggests that the response in Wales may not have been cautious enough. You had a traffic-light system, First Minister, but it looks like the lights went out. There was no mention of that traffic-light system nor the road map in yesterday's statement. And if we are to take Dame Deirdre Hine's critique seriously, as we surely should, we cannot halfheartedly address a full-on COVID resurgence in many of our communities, neither can we have a one-size-fits-all approach, as it fails to take into account the divergent COVID map of Wales, as you have said.
Where special measures are required, they need to create a difference, not a headline. The 10 p.m. closing time for pubs and restaurants introduced in Antwerp to contain a steady rise in coronavirus cases led to a sustained decrease in August, but it was introduced alongside a complete curfew, a night-time lockdown, effectively, from 11 p.m. onwards. What is the evidence that the measure announced last night on a Wales-wide basis is going to have the impact that you desire? Where we have local restrictions in place in Wales, we should surely be going further—much further—by introducing the temporary, or at least earlier, closure of pubs and clubs, with accompanying sector-specific support. And in these areas, the selling of alcohol at off-licences should be restricted much earlier, to 6 p.m. or 7 p.m., which is the latest that alcohol can be bought at off-licences in Sweden.
The guidance on travel at the moment is neither clear nor consistent. On the Today programme this morning, you said that you were not stopping people from going on holiday, however the overarching appeal is for people not to make non-essential journeys. How are they defined? Can people visit family, drive to a beauty spot, to the pub, or jump in the car and play a round of golf? It's my birthday today, First Minister, and I was planning on going with my partner to a local restaurant—should I now cancel? These are the questions that people are asking themselves across Wales. Clearly, it makes sense to stop travel from high-risk areas, but that has to include areas not in Wales. You can't go to Tenby from Blaenau Gwent, but you can from Bolton.
Now, a national lockdown is something we should all want to avoid. If there is a window, we must seize it now without delay and with rigorous, targeted action, backed by a comprehensive communications strategy, which should involve bringing back daily news conferences. Ministers should adopt the clear but adaptable Irish approach, consisting of five levels applied locally. It's time to turn that traffic-light system back on, First Minister, before we find the whole of Wales flashing red once more.

Well, Llywydd, I'll see if there's anything in what the Member has said to which I can make a positive response. I entirely refute any disrespect. This Government has answered questions on the floor of the Senedd right throughout the coronavirus crisis, including right through our recess period. We have been more available to this Senedd than any other Parliament in the United Kingdom has been able to question Ministers that are responsible to those different democratic forums. We were making decisions here, as I said, well into last evening. I am not responsible for the time that the BBC requires material to be supplied to them; that's not a decision that I make, it's a decision that broadcasters make because of their scheduling obligations, and we pushed that to the very limit in order to try to make decisions in the way that I think they need to be made in Wales. And I'm very pleased to be here this afternoon, at the earliest opportunity, answering Members' questions.
For the rest of Adam Price's contribution, I'm not sure exactly what I can make of it, Llywydd. He asked me to follow the advice of a chief medical officer who was a chief medical officer 20 years ago when I have a chief medical officer here today whose advice I am able to take and do my best to follow.
He complains about people hearing things in news conferences rather than in the Senedd, and then urges me to reinstate news conferences on every day of the week. He talks about one size not fitting all, and then urges me to go much further in restricting the freedoms available to people in their daily lives in Wales. Well, I don't agree with him. I think he is not compliant with the obligation that we have under the regulations in Wales to be proportionate in every action we take, to weigh up the public health risk, and then to take measures that we think are commensurate with that risk. It's why we will have an approach in Wales that remains cautious. How many times on the floor of the Senedd have I been urged by Members not to be so cautious, not to lag behind—as people have put it to me—when other parts of the United Kingdom have gone further, including from the leader of Plaid Cymru himself when he was pointing to Scotland as an example? Our careful, cautious approach has stood us in good stead. We will go on being proportionate as much as we can in the decisions that we make.
The Irish model, which the Member referred to, amongst his many other references to places for which I have no responsibility whatsoever, in Antwerp and Sweden and other parts of his international travel prospectus—. In Ireland, they've had to review their model so often that it is very difficult, I think, for people to keep up with the changes that are being made. We are trying, for simplicity's sake and to enable people in Wales to have a fighting chance of understanding the rules that we are asking them to abide by, to make those changes as seldom as possible. That is the course of action that we continue to follow here in Wales, and the announcements made and reported to the Senedd today are consistent with that approach.

First Minister, Andrew R.T. Davies, very generously I thought, said he bitterly regretted that you weren't in a position to make the announcement to the Senedd yesterday. Isn't the reality, as described by Adam Price, that you preferred not to? You preferred instead to give that pre-recorded interview, saying pretty much what you've just said now, pretty much what you could have said to the Senedd yesterday. You preferred to give that to the BBC because you wanted to make your announcement to the nation through the BBC and not the Senedd. And if that is not the case, can you answer his question as to what time you sent that pre-recorded video of your speech to the BBC?
Now, you don't want to pick up on the six-month projection that I think has been given by the UK Government for England, and isn't that because these restrictions are pretty much indefinite? Is your strategy not to continue keeping the economy—and society to greater or lesser extent—locked down indefinitely, suppressing the virus, ostensibly, completely different from what we were told when we first went into lockdown, that it was to protect capacity in the NHS? Are you not just going to continue that until there is either a vaccine—if it works, if it's reliable—or the supposed moonshot daily testing at a cost of £100 billion projected? Isn't the reality that the costs of what you have done are greater than what you have been trying to achieve through them? We've heard from Andrew R.T. Davies about a 62 per cent fall in operations in Wales. We've seen 16,000 fewer cancer referrals. We've seen on England and Wales data for recent weeks many more people committing suicide than die of COVID. How long is this going to continue? You can't give us an answer for that. And you say you want to rely on people's judgment, you want people to be responsible, but actually then you tell them with very varying—. You criticise Ireland for varying it so that people can't keep up, what on earth do you think's been happening here with the huge numbers of regulations and varying and often contradictory guidance, plus also the often very marginal differences from England, when communications would have been much easier if there had been a consistent approach? So, there is a conflict between that and saying, actually, you want people to be responsible. How can people be responsible when what they have to do is comply with a vast range of stuff that's very, very difficult to keep up with, even for those who concentrate hard on that?
And finally from me on shielding, you say that the CMO may be writing to people again. It's not clear what he's going to be saying to them, but the reality is that he told them to continue shielding until 16 August and the prevalence of the virus is surely now significantly higher than it was then. I think you said that letter is a few weeks' warning for people that carried on shielding until 16 August, and the reason it's very difficult for people to shield again now is because they were kept shielding for several weeks when the prevalence of the virus was low, and much lower than it is now. So, wouldn't it be more sensible for those people involved to make their own judgment as to risks and consider whether they should shield for themselves?

Llywydd, the Prime Minister asked the BBC yesterday for time to make an address to the nation given the position that we faced. The BBC suggested that the leader of the Government here in Wales should make a similar address to people in Wales. I think that is a tribute to the Senedd and to devolution: the fact that the BBC thought that here in Wales, with a Government of our own, people in Wales would want to hear from the leader of the Government. And far from it being a competition between the Senedd and other forms of letting our fellow citizens know of changes, I genuinely think Members should regard it as a sign of the way in which devolution, the work of the Senedd, the fact that we have our own democracy here in Wales, has taken root here in Wales, that the BBC thought that was the right thing to do. I have come here to answer your questions as soon as I have been able to do so and I see nothing at all that I have to apologise for in that.
The Member gets it so wrong in relation to this issue of six months. The reason I don't say six months is because I want to review these measures every three weeks, and if it is possible to lift them sooner, then that's what I want to do. The truth is so much the opposite of what he implies: I want to lift restrictions on people's lives as soon as we can safely do it, and I don't want to say to people that that could be six months away when if between the efforts we all can make together it would be possible to do that sooner. That is my ambition and it has been all the way through. I am really anxious every time we make a decision to restrict people's freedoms, and we do it simply because of the extraordinary times we live in and the risks that are posed to others. The sooner we can restore those freedoms to people, the better I will think that will be. That's the strategy I'm following and it's really not at all what the Member implied.
In a way that I don't think he seems able to recognise, his final two questions to me pointed in completely opposite directions. He started from a premise that I would agree with: there is more than one harm from coronavirus and not presenting yourself for investigations or treatment in the NHS for non-COVID purposes has been one of the harms that coronavirus has caused. As I said in my answer to Andrew R.T. Davies, the NHS in Wales is open for people and I hope very much that they will make use of it. Having recognised that there is more than one harm, he then wanted me to reimpose on shielded people a blanket set of restrictions that we know have come with harms to people as well as the protections that those restrictions offered. So, we have put advice to shielded people in line with the advice that we have had from our chief medical officer and all the other chief medical officers across the United Kingdom.
It still is our advice to shielded people that they should take particular care, that they should ask themselves even more searching questions about who they meet with and where they go, but it is not, we think, proportionate now to say to them that they should not leave their homes for any exercise, and if they felt confident in doing it, they could go, for example, to collect their own prescriptions, and that's because we're trying to balance the harms. The harms that come from people with vulnerable health conditions being exposed to coronavirus are very real. The harms that come from saying to people that they should never leave their homes are real as well, in the impact on those people's sense of well-being and isolation. The advice we're giving to shielded people, and which the chief medical officer may well wish to reiterate and update in any fresh letter he may send, is designed to hold that in balance, just as—in the way that I agree with the Member—our advice to people about using the NHS must be in balance as well.
Thank you very much, and I very much welcome the First Minister coming here this afternoon to make this statement. First Minister, in Blaenau Gwent, people understand and support the action that the Welsh Government is proposing, but they do clearly have some questions. Perhaps first amongst those questions is on the travel restrictions, and I'd be grateful if you could explain why you are restricting travel from the borough to other parts of Wales, and to other localities. That would be very useful for us.
We've also discussed testing on a number of occasions in this Senedd in recent weeks and months, and the health Minister was very clear yesterday that further resources will be put into testing at this time. So, I'd be grateful if you could outline how you see mobile units or walk-in testing facilities being developed in areas where there are these additional restrictions.
And you referred to enforcement in your statement: it is crucially important that these restrictions are enforced properly. Is it possible to have greater resources from Welsh Government to enable and to help local government with enforcement, so that we can ensure that everybody plays fair and that there is a level playing field here? Because I think that people have had six months now of restrictions placed upon their lives, and they want to feel that everybody is playing their part.
And finally, First Minister, people would like to know when you intend to review these restrictions and review these regulations, so that people can look forward to understanding the structure in which these regulations are operating. Thank you.

Llywydd, can I thank Alun Davies for all those very pertinent questions, and thank the population that he represents here in the Senedd for their commitment to playing their part in the efforts that are needed to bear down on this virus and to be able to bring it back under control in south-east Wales again? Blaenau Gwent is, Llywydd—as Members will know—one of the areas that are to be subject to more extensive restrictions in people's lives than the rest of Wales, and that's a real ask of people, and I don't underestimate that at all. The rules require people not to enter or to leave one of those county borough areas, and that is precisely in order to try to contain the spread of this virus. The virus spreads when people meet and when people travel, and our efforts are directed at confining coronavirus to as small a geographical area as we can manage, and that very significant ask of people in those areas to restrict their travel other than for specifically identified purposes is part of the contribution we're asking them to make.
I saw figures yesterday, Llywydd, that show that in the first week of restrictions in Caerphilly, there had been an 8 per cent fall in journeys made to and from that county borough, and that demonstrates the way in which people are willing to play their part, and I'm sure that people in Blaenau Gwent will be wanting and willing to do that, too.
On testing, Members will have heard from the health Minister yesterday about the steps we are taking to increase capacity within the Welsh system to switch some testing into the Welsh system, to deploy mobile units in those places where they are most needed, to see whether we can bring further mobile capacity into Wales in order to be able to carry out tests where they are most urgently needed.
Llywydd, can I absolutely agree with Alun Davies about the issue of enforcement? It is a matter, as he said, of fair play. Most people in Wales already comply with the rules and the guidance, and do so scrupulously. Where there are people who don't understand the rules or are struggling to follow them, then I entirely endorse the approach that our police forces and local authorities have taken of education, information and persuasion as the first ports of call. But, for those people who knowingly, persistently and deliberately break the rules that everybody else are following, then I'm afraid it is right, on behalf of everybody else who are following the rules, that proper enforcement action is taken. We discussed yesterday, with our local authority colleagues, ways in which we can help them in resource terms to step up enforcement. I made it clear once again to our police colleagues that if there are further things we can do to assist them in that difficult work, that is what we will do. It is a last resort not a first resort for us in Wales to take that action, but where that action is needed, it will be taken.
And finally, to answer the question about the timetable, the local lockdown restrictions will be reviewed every two weeks in those areas; the restrictions across the whole of Wales—the national picture—will continue to be reviewed on a three-week cycle here in Wales.
Can I thank you for your statement, First Minister? It's coming at a very worrying time for many people with the recent rise in positive case numbers. I am a little concerned, though, at some of the detail in your statement. You refer to the current rate of positive infections per 100,000 population as being 46.8 cases in your statement, yet the data published today by Public Health Wales, on their publicly available Tableau page, is that the infection rate is just 32.1 cases per 100,000. Can I ask why there is this data discrepancy, and if it is higher, why that isn't being published in the public domain? I'm sure you'll agree with me that we need to have confidence in these figures if the public are going to be encouraged to work with the public authorities in order to get the desired result of getting these infection rates down.
Can I also ask, on behalf of businesses and residents in my constituency, which is heavily reliant, of course, on tourism as part of the economy, what message you would like to send to potential visitors to our communities? Because you said very clearly in the Senedd yesterday, during First Minister's questions, that you wanted people to check whether their journeys were actually essential journeys. Now, I appreciate and have heard what you've said to other Members of this Chamber, but I think it is very confusing for people that you're saying that people should only take essential journeys, yet we are allowing people, who are potentially coming from high-infection areas from outside of Wales, into some of these communities with many older people. So, what message would you like us to convey to businesses and to visitors?

Llywydd, again, can I thank Darren Millar for those important questions? I agree with his opening remarks that this is a worrying time, and I'm afraid he's right that we should be concerned given the figures that we are seeing.
The figure that I quoted, Llywydd—the 46.8 per cent—is the most recent figure that I have. I am offered management information that is available in advance of the publicly used figures, which have some further testing of them before they are published, and that's because I want to provide Senedd Members with the best and most recent information that I have. In some ways, as I know that Darren Millar will recognise, it is the trend that is the most important, rather than the absolute number, and the trend is upwards here in Wales. Ten days ago, when we took the decision to make face coverings mandatory in shops and enclosed public places, we had just reached 20 per 100,000 in Wales. I'm afraid that, since then, that figure has moved upwards. It is affected by the south-east Wales corner. It's not a reflection on some parts of Wales, but the trend is important to identify.
The issue of tourism is a fraught one. I've discussed this matter directly with the Member on a number of occasions because, as he says, tourism is such an important part of the local economy of the area of Wales that he represents. The good news is that we've had tourists coming to Wales from other parts of the United Kingdom since the first part of July now, and there isn't evidence that that has led to spikes of infection in those parts of Wales that people most often visit. Indeed, the coronavirus continues to be at its lowest ebb in those places that tourists most often visit. Nevertheless, I understand, of course, that local people are anxious when visitors come from other parts—whether it be of Wales or beyond—where rates of coronavirus are elevated. So, our message continues to be at this point: visit Wales safely. If you're coming to Wales, please make sure that you do all of the things that we would expect our fellow citizens to do to keep themselves and other people safe. In that way, people can enjoy Wales and make a contribution to local economies and to jobs without risks being posed.
I asked the Prime Minister yesterday to echo a message about asking people to think carefully about journeys, particularly from those places in England where coronavirus is even further ahead than it is even in south-east Wales. I'm afraid he wasn't willing to do it. My message for people in Wales is that it's not about a rule; it's not about people trying to test the boundaries of what is allowed. That's not the right way to think about this. All I'm asking people in Wales to do is to think carefully about journeys that they may make. If it's possible, for example, to visit a restaurant or to go to a pub close to home, that is more advisable than travelling a distance to do the same thing further away. Those are the questions that I'm asking people in a common-sense way, in making judgments that people are capable of making in their own lives, because the more people we meet and the further we travel, the greater the risk. I think that that's a very simple proposition, and I feel confident that our fellow citizens in Wales are capable of making those judgments in their own lives.
First Minister, the pandemic has taken a toll on everyone's mental health, and many of us have got through it because cases were coming down, and we could see a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm deeply worried about the impact of a long and difficult winter on everyone's mental health, particularly those cut off from family and friends' support, and our NHS and social care staff.
You said again today that there is more than one harm from coronavirus. What steps will you take to mitigate the harms this winter on everybody's mental health, and what assurances can you give that everybody who needs support from mental health services, whether young people or adults, will get that support? We know that that didn't happen in the first phase of this pandemic.
Can I also ask about people living with dementia? The terrible figures of excess deaths of those living with dementia have laid bare the impact of loneliness and isolation in the first part of this pandemic. I believe that there needs to be a clear plan to mitigate the impact of the next phase of the pandemic on people living with dementia. What steps will you take to introduce one? Thank you.

Llywydd, I thank Lynne Neagle for those important points, which she raises very regularly on the floor of the Senedd to make sure that none of us forget about that very important dimension. She will know that we are already taking measures. Our decision not to restrict people's ability to meet in the outdoors is part of our determination to continue to use the weeks that are left to us when it is possible to do so in our climate so that people are able to get the mental health benefits of doing so. I was very glad indeed last week, given the fantastic weather we had, that Welsh people were not in the position that people are across our border, where there are significant restrictions on the ability of people to take advantage of the outdoors. She will know as well that our rule of six continues, outside the local lockdown areas, to allow six people from our extended household to meet together. Again, it's a powerful motivation in coming to that decision not to restrict those households further for the mental health and well-being needs of that extended household. Despite the real anxieties that we have, I hope we will be able to sustain that position for longer here in Wales.
The impact of coronavirus on the mental health of young people has been particularly in our thoughts as universities resume here in Wales, as Andrew R.T. Davies said in his opening question. We have worked very hard with the higher education sector here in Wales and with the National Union of Students, who I must say I think have been fantastically constructive contributors to making sure that the welfare and well-being of students who are coming back to Wales or coming to Wales to study is properly safeguarded, to make sure that those services are in place to the maximum extent that we can make them. When I visited a school here in Cardiff last week it was heartening to hear from staff and students of the way that the extra investment in counselling services in our schools is making that more available to students in our schools this term than at any earlier point in the history of our school counselling service.
Finally, to turn to Lynne Neagle's issue of dementia—an enormously challenging issue—I'm afraid there really are no straightforward or simple answers that are available to us. We struggle all the time with the issue of visits to care homes, knowing how important they are to people with dementia particularly, but knowing how vulnerable those people are to the virus being brought into an environment that in other ways has been so very carefully guarded to protect people's physical health. So, what we are doing is working closely with the third sector, with our partners in local authorities, and those who represent the views of families and people who have dementia, to put in the best balance we can manage between protecting those people's physical health and diluting the impact of the necessary restrictions on the mental health and well-being of that population. I wish there was a straightforward answer to it, but I know there's not. It's a matter of constant dialogue and trying to come to the best possible accommodations we can between some powerfully conflicting obligations that we have to that population.
Finally, Mick Antoniw.
First Minister, just a couple of points. Firstly, I very much appreciated the address to the nation. I think that was a very important landmark during this pandemic.
I wonder if we could have clearer guidance for the pubs and clubs in our constituencies. Many of them are raising questions. They are very keen to operate within the guidelines and to operate safely for their community. Things like table service, darts, bingo, chair location and so on are important issues to them, and I think anything that gives them greater clarity would be very, very much appreciated.
Can I ask about the £500? You'll know that when we gave the sum of £500 to care workers we couldn't persuade the UK Government not to deduct tax on it and to make it exempt from impacting on benefits. Will it be completely exempt from any of those? If so, that would at least be a welcome move on this occasion.
And finally, working from home and workers who have to—what discussions have there been with the trade unions on this? And can you give us a bit more information about the Welsh law that would be introduced that will give protection to those workers who choose to self-isolate? We know from past experience that some have had pressure put on them in those circumstances to come into work. This not only undermines the efforts in respect of tackling the pandemic, but also causes very serious stress and anxiety amongst many of our workers who want to do the right thing. And perhaps you could just clarify the role that the trade unions might have within this as well. Thank you, First Minister.

Llywydd, can I thank Mick Antoniw for what he said about the information we were able to broadcast last night, and the importance of that, both to citizens in Wales, but, as I've said, I think marking the significance of devolution in the lives of people here in Wales? His question about details for pubs and clubs points at some of that dilemma that I've answered some questions about this afternoon, about expecting that I could have provided all of that detail, and much more, while the Senedd was still sitting yesterday. We have spent all morning, and will continue to spend more time still, in working with those sectors in order to make sure that we have the answers that are needed by those people in pubs and clubs and restaurants, and in other parts of our economy, who so want to do the right thing. And part of the way we have done it in Wales is to have that social partnership approach, in which we work with people to come to those conclusions and then publish the results. And I don't have, even now, some of the answers to the points that Mick Antoniw has raised. But I give him an assurance that we are continuing to work with the sector to give those people who want to follow the rules, who want to do the right thing, all the help that we are able to provide them.
On the £500, the latest information I saw was that the UK Government did not intend to make that exempt from income tax. I regret that. I think that's another contradictory decision, if it turns out to be true—trying to provide people with an income so that they don't feel under pressure to go into work and then taking money away from them with the other hand. Let's hope that that turns out not to be the final result. We will talk with the UK Government about the best mechanisms. Mick Antoniw will know that we have some advantages in Wales, and we never abandoned the social fund here in the way that it has been so abandoned across our border. We used our discretionary assistance fund, very much in his own constituency, back in February, to provide the £501,000 help that we were able to provide for people who had been flooded. And we will look to see whether the discretionary assistance fund, which, Llywydd, has made over 73,600 emergency coronavirus payments to people in Wales, providing more than £4.6 million in assistance to people during this pandemic, is the best vehicle for getting the £500 as quickly and as unbureaucratically to people as possible.
In terms of working from home, we discussed this this morning in the social partnership council, with both the Wales TUC and individual trade union colleagues in attendance, and their support for that remains very important, and we will work further with them to make sure that those rules are properly understood by members and by employers. Llywydd, let me end by saying that I think the vast majority of employers in Wales have worked very hard to protect their employees, have not wished to put them under pressure to return to work where they could work successfully from home. In other parts of the United Kingdom, there have been examples, for example, where people who have been asked to self-isolate have been made redundant by their employers. The regulations that we will put in place in Wales will prevent that from happening here, because we want to make it clear that it is an obligation for employers and employees to self-isolate when that advice is provided to them. We want to support all those good employers in Wales who already help their workers to do just that, and our regulations, as ever, are designed to support good trade unions and good employers who want to do the right thing.
I thank the First Minister.
The next item, therefore, is the questions to the Minister for Finance, and the first question comes from Joyce Watson.
1. What discussions has the Minister had with the UK Government regarding the autumn 2020 budget? OQ55560

Since the outbreak of the pandemic, there have been seven meetings of the finance Ministers' quadrilateral, where we have discussed a range of issues, including the fiscal response to the crisis, the UK Government's autumn budget and the forthcoming comprehensive spending review.
Thank you for that answer. But at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, Welsh Government capped the eligibility scheme for business rate holiday and excluded all retail, hospitality and leisure premises with a rateable value of more than £0.5 million. And that targeted approach enabled Welsh Government to add £100 million to the economic resilience fund that, in turn, helped safeguard thousands of jobs and support thousands of small and medium-sized enterprises during that period. That didn't happen in England, and they don't have an equivalent economic resilience fund, so many of their businesses lost out. So, could I ask you, Minister, when you have your round of talks with the UK Chancellor, will you ask him to take a more targeted response in the autumn budget in order to save those most-at-risk jobs and businesses by a catch-all scheme, whereby you have a situation that large supermarkets, who had a rise and an increase in their profits, benefited at the cost of those smaller businesses?
I thank Joyce Watson for this question and for her ongoing and evident concern for small and medium-sized enterprises, particularly, I have to say, in the more rural parts of Wales. And Joyce is absolutely right to point to the fact that businesses in Wales have access to the most generous package of support anywhere in the United Kingdom. So, the Office for National Statistics have recently published some data that shows that 34 per cent of businesses in Wales have benefited from support, as compared to 21 per cent in Scotland and 14 per cent in England. So, that really does show the added value that devolution has brought to the response to this crisis.
And, again, Joyce is right that we do need a much more targeted approach now, as we move into the next phase of addressing the crisis, looking particularly at those sectors of society that have suffered greatly and continue to suffer as a result of the crisis. Hospitality, tourism, for example, stand out, as does aerospace—Jack Sargeant raised that sector in the Chamber just yesterday—and, of course, the automotive industry, the steel industry and so on—all industries that are absolutely vital to Wales, and of which we have a greater share than elsewhere in the UK. So, I give my assurance that I will absolutely be continuing to press for that more targeted approach as we move through our response to the crisis.
Minister, I'm looking for some detail from you about what you're trying to secure by way of further consequentials in that budget from further education spending. Further education is obviously going to be one of those sectors that we rely on to help us recover from COVID, and while the specific pressures are obviously for another Minister, the £23 million that came from the Welsh Government's COVID pot, welcome though it is, is only partial compensation for the £47 million education budget cut, which was inflicted in order to help feed that COVID pot, and it doesn't really completely reflect the additional COVID consequentials from the UK Government. Can you commit to making it clear where consequentials have come in for FE, as a result of the autumn budget, and also make it clear for us to see whether more, the same or less ends up being committed net by Welsh Government?
Yes, I'm very happy to be extremely transparent in terms of the data on consequentials that we receive from the UK Government. So, very recently I wrote to the Finance Committee giving the latest detail of the consequentials that Welsh Government has received, and in relation to what UK Government spend. Although I will make the point that, of course, the Welsh Government isn't an administrative arm of the UK Government, and money that does come, as a result of consequentials, is deployed in relation to particular Welsh pressures and Welsh priorities and Welsh concerns. I'll also add that we were able to negotiate with the UK Treasury an agreement that we would have consequentials in advance of announcements that have been made across the border in England. So, our total consequentials thus far have been £4 billion, but for part of that we don't yet know to what those consequentials relate, and that was something we were able to negotiate because it did give us the ability, then, in Wales to provide additional funding to health, additional funding to local government, to give them the certainty and ability to plan, rather than waiting for each and every small announcement from the UK Government. So, that's been a really good example of good working between Welsh Government and HM Treasury, although I think there's some way to go yet in terms of the flexibilities that we're seeking.
Minister, 2020 has highlighted how vulnerable our economy actually is—vulnerable to COVID and vulnerable to a changing climate. We are woefully unprepared to cope with such shocks to our systems. What discussions have you had with colleagues across all four nations about ensuring funding goes towards mitigating the risks of future pandemics and the challenges we face from climate change?
I'm really grateful to Caroline for highlighting the fact that, even though we've been dealing with a pandemic, which has been all-consuming in so many ways, actually, that huge issue of climate change hasn't gone away, and, absolutely, we must be continuing to address it. So, our mind is very much focused, as we continue to address the acute end of the pandemic, also on looking ahead to the recovery and the reconstruction. And the discussions that we're having right across Government are very much framed within the lens of our Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, but with that particular focus on how we can create a green and fair recovery.
I know that Jeremy Miles has been working very hard across the summer, engaging with stakeholders right across Welsh life to better understand the concerns and ideas there, and he'll be saying something more about the particular steps that we will take in terms of that recovery shortly. But I can give you reassurance that the decarbonisation agenda, the green agenda, is at the heart of that.
2. Will the Minister make a statement on the governance of public projects funded by the Welsh Government? OQ55573
Robust appraisal, management and assurance are the core governance principles of the projects funded by the Welsh Government. This includes assessment and management of the risks posed to the project, which is underpinned by an independent review mechanism of the projects performance at key stages in its life-cycle.
Well, thank you very much for that response, but you will, of course, be aware of the recent report by Audit Wales on Ysbyty Glan Clwyd, which went £60 million over budget. Now, there is criticism made of the health board there, but it's also very critical of the governance arrangements of the Welsh Government. Despite the clear concerns expressed about the business plan, and the fact that the business case wasn't sufficiently strong—despite that, the plan was approved.
Of course, if the Welsh Government and the health board had had that clear business case in place before approving that plan, then it's unlikely that it would have overspent. So, who takes responsibility for that failure?
Llyr Gruffydd is right to point to what was a critical report from the Wales Audit Office. But it is important at the same time to recognise that the Welsh Government had already taken steps to improve its arrangements for approving business cases before the funding problems at Ysbyty Glan Clwyd came to light. And further improvements in Welsh Government processes have been embedded, reflecting the outcomes of that review into this project.
So, further Welsh Government internal audit work undertaken in 2014 stated that there was no evidence to suggest that the capital estates and facilities did not discharge their function with monitoring the project, and it's very important as well to recognise that, in 2017, the Auditor General for Wales published a report that was called 'Implementation of the NHS Finances (Wales) Act 2014', and within that report there was recognition of the steps that we have taken in Welsh Government, and steps taken by the NHS capital estates and facilities team to significantly strengthen its review of capital projects. And the report said that there are significant lessons and good practice that can be learnt from the approach taken in the Welsh Government's NHS capital programme. So, while I would absolutely acknowledge those issues that were highlighted in the report, it is also important, I think, to acknowledge the progress and improvement that has happened since.
Unfortunately Minister, this isn't a one-off, is it, because the Wales audit office has repeatedly highlighted areas of public expenditure where the money either was being wasted or failed to deliver a notable outcome? So, we can refer to, for example, the rural development grant or Communities First—those are two that immediately spring to mind. Now, I understand and appreciate that it's down to individual Ministers to decide on their spending portfolios, but as far as you are concerned, as the finance Minister, is it not your role to ensure that value for money is achieved and public money is not wasted? So, please, could you outline the role that you play in ensuring that portfolio holders spend their budgets appropriately and accountably, and how do you and your department help to steer that ship back onto the right course if you see that they are not doing so?
I'm really grateful for this opportunity to highlight some of the work within the COVID context that we've been doing to ensure value for money and affordability in every proposal that has been brought forward through the COVID-19 reserve, which, of course, is the funding that is behind everything that we've done to respond to the crisis. So, every single day, at the start of the crisis, I convened a team that looked at every single bid that was coming forward from colleagues across Welsh Government—so, additional funding for the NHS, funding for free school meals, funding to support local authorities with their loss of income. Every single bid that related to our response to COVID has come through that particular group, where we provide that additional layer of surety and that additional layer of robust scrutiny to ensure that we are making decisions that have value for money at their heart and, of course, affordability at their heart too.
So, that group has met probably close to 100 times now since the start of the crisis, and that's all been about interrogating every single bid that comes forward from any part of Government to seek additional funding to respond to the crisis and to provide that additional layer. So, that's very much, I think, a process that I hope will give people confidence that, when these decisions are being taken, and taken very rapidly, there is an additional layer of probity applied to those decisions.
Minister, as we've already heard from these questions, one of the benefits of the governance of public projects in Wales by the Welsh Government is that there is direct accountability here on the floor of the Senedd and close to the people of Wales, and that's the way it should be. It also means that projects are seen through the paradigm of Welsh policy, including the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. So does she have any concerns with the idea of quite distant Whitehall Ministers and Whitehall mandarins tramping across Wales in their size 10 boots and distributing largesse in future, without that close-to-the-people accountability and without taking account of the policy framework in Wales?
I absolutely do share those concerns and it is really difficult to imagine how just two clauses in a Bill could be more damaging to Wales from a devolved public spending perspective. It puts huge powers in the hands of UK Government Ministers to spend in Wales in areas that are currently devolved and have been devolved for 20 years. We have the networks here in Wales; we understand where the money will make the difference. We have those local relationships that will use the money well.
There are big issues here. I mean, what happens is the UK Government presumably will top-slice money from the Welsh Government's budget; this isn't additional spend. If the UK Government is looking for areas to spend within its own responsibilities, I'm sure that many of us can have a list as long as your arm of ideas that they could spend on, starting off with things such as electrifying the main line to Swansea, investing in the tidal lagoon in Swansea and investing in broadband so that Welsh Government doesn't have to pick up the tab for things that are rightly the responsibility of the UK Government, including rail more widely, and that's another area where we've had to act because the UK Government doesn't want to. So, they should start off by focusing their spend in the areas that they're responsible for and leave Welsh Government to undertake its own responsibilities.
Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservatives' spokesperson, Nick Ramsay.
Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, procurement is one of the key ways in which public bodies need to be able to demonstrate that they are securing value for money, something that we took evidence from you on recently in the Public Accounts Committee. Two of the Auditor General for Wales's reports in autumn 2017 concluded that national governance arrangements for procurement could be strengthened and should be strengthened. How are you planning to do this?
Thank you very much for raising that issue, and I think that a key thing in our armoury in terms of procurement is the Wales procurement policy statement. Now, that was last fully updated in 2015, and that provides the strategy and the framework for the Welsh public sector to undertake public procurement. And the effective application of that has delivered positive impacts, but I know that we can do more, we can go further, so a revised WPPS is currently being developed to reflect on and build upon the closer working relationships that have been developed with the Welsh Government and the wider Welsh public sector during the COVID pandemic in our response to it. I think our relationships in that sense have never been better, so it's an opportunity for us to ensure that our procurement benefits from our new ways of working.
Thank you, Minister, and I'm pleased to hear that that work is under way, because the National Procurement Service frameworks do need looking at and overhauling. Public bodies in Wales have been spending in the region of £6 billion procuring goods and services, so we shouldn't be in any doubt about the importance of procurement in getting the Welsh economy moving again. Unfortunately, as you know, the auditor general's reports concluded that public bodies are not using NPS frameworks as much as was originally anticipated, whilst the cancelled procurement for Job Support Wales was a high-profile procurement failure that brought into question the Welsh Government's commitment to be an exemplar of best procurement practice. So, can you update us on, firstly, when your review into this will be published and completed, and how you are addressing these problems so that companies across Wales can be reassured that the Welsh Government is getting to grips with these problems and changing the whole procurement culture in Wales?
I'm happy to provide that update. So, my colleague Lee Waters has been leading on some really important work in terms of the foundational economy, and, as part of that work, we commissioned the Centre for Local Economic Strategies to work with us to ensure that we can identify public services boards clusters across Wales and work with them to consider new ways of working and how they can maximise the procurement opportunities in local economies. Now, that work has been affected by COVID, but implementation plans will be agreed by the end of this month. And the underlying objective for that is to identify areas of procurement that currently flow out of the region or, indeed, out of Wales, and to ensure that that's used as the baseline then to develop those new approaches, to drive up the involvement of local suppliers in expenditure. So, a really important piece of work and a new way of working and, as I say, we should be able to say more about the agreement of plans to take that forward later on this month.
Thank you, and I look forward to hearing that information later this month. I appreciate that officials' time and your own time and the Government's time over recent time has been preoccupied with the pandemic and dealing with that, but if I can, in my final question to you, ask how this whole issue of procurement can be seen in terms of the issue of building back better, and renewing the culture that we have in Wales. Procurement surely does have a huge part to play in achieving the building back better process, given the huge amounts of money that we are talking about here—the £6 billion I mentioned before, but there's additional money as well. It's also important, I'm sure you'll agree, that procurement policy is in alignment with the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. The commissioner has called on the Welsh Government to factor in the Act at the very start of the procurement process, or even, importantly, at a pre-procurement stage. This is, as I said before, Minister, about changing the whole culture of how we deal with procurement in Wales. It's a massive area, but do you agree that, along with tax policy, actually—another big change in recent times to the way that this place operates—it can be one of the key levers at your disposal in providing value for money for the taxpayer, supporting the Welsh economy and helping in that process of building back better?
Yes. Oh my gosh, I find myself in agreement with the Conservative spokesperson on that issue. Absolutely, procurement can play a huge role in terms of building back better in ensuring that spend is kept in our local communities.
You'll be familiar with the foundational economy challenge fund. That's been really important in terms of identifying local areas where improvement can be made. So, an example would be the forest nation centre, and that's testing the concept of using skilled, value-added manufacturing approaches to increase the use of Welsh timber within housing, and that's something of interest across several portfolios in Government. And also the controlled environment agriculture pilot, and that's exploring the development of community, old agriculture facilities. So, lots of different ways in which we can ensure that spend is kept more locally for the benefit of local people, and that challenge fund I think has been really instrumental in bringing forward new innovative ways of working on which inevitably we will want to build as we come out of the crisis.
The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Thank you, Llywydd. With a quarter of the Welsh population now under higher level restrictions as a result of the pandemic, I was pleased to see new measures announced last night to support people financially. I'm referring mainly to the £500 payment for those on lower incomes and support for employers to continue to employ people who are unwell. I think it's very important that we have the details of this scheme as soon as possible. Could we have those details now, and are we likely to see further announcements on support specifically for those areas identified as needing more restrictions in place?
Thank you. As you say, last night, the First Minister made the announcement about the £500 payment for people on low incomes who are required to self-isolate. As he said earlier on in the First Minister's statement, we're still working on the details of that, looking at the delivery mechanisms. The First Minister talked about the potential for using the discretionary assistance fund as a mechanism for that. Other options are available and are also being considered. And we're also looking in detail at what the eligibility criteria will be as well. So, I'm afraid I can't give you all of those details today because some modelling work is being undertaken by Welsh Treasury on that, but, as soon as we do have more details about the scheme, obviously, I'll be very, very keen to share that.
I appreciate that you are still working on the details, but I remember another £500 payment that was announced some months ago for workers in the care sector, and it took an exceptionally long time to work out how that payment should be made, and that process isn't completed even today.
Local authorities, if I could move forward, have done heroic work during this pandemic. I am concerned to hear about some uncertainty among local government leaders regarding funding for councils as we face the winter months, which are going to be a strain, of course. According to one council, they managed to reclaim first quarter losses quite easily, but the story is very different with the second quarter. So, can I have confirmation of the additional support that's ready to be provided to compensate councils and confirmation that processes are being hastened to ensure that losses incurred already are paid back as a matter of urgency, or councils are going to face great stresses very, very soon?
Well, Welsh Government worked really closely alongside the Welsh Local Government Association and the Society of Welsh Treasurers through the early part of the summer to better understand the potential for lost income across the rest of the financial year. Lost income might come from things such as a lack of services that the council might normally provide—for example, car parking, theatres, and so on. So, a great deal of detailed work went on there and that's why I was very recently able to announce additional funding for local authorities in respect of items, including lost earnings, which brought the additional funding for local government up to nearly £500 million. So, I think we have worked with them beyond that first tranche of funding, which I recall was in the region of £70 million. But now we have provided funding that should look across to the end of the financial year. So, I'm concerned to hear that a local authority has suggested that this is an ongoing issue, but perhaps if you write to me we can get into a bit more of the detail of that.
The concern is, of course, that it will be an ongoing issue for quite some time, and there are certainly concerns about what will happen over the winter months.
And finally, I wanted to get something on record, if truth be told. As we face climbing out of the economic hole that we're in at present, it's become apparent during this pandemic that the fiscal arrangements of Wales are entirely inadequate. Can I have an assurance from you that there is discussion with the UK Government on the new rules and fiscal circumstances that you would like to see and that that will be a priority for you? And will you agree with me that this is certainly something that cannot be put to one side because of COVID—it's something that needs to be done more swiftly as a result of COVID and the economic problems caused by it?
Absolutely, I'll give you my assurance that inter-governmental mechanisms in relation to finance, and also fiscal flexibilities in particular, will continue to be at the heart of conversations that I have with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury. So, you'll recall earlier on in the summer one of our big concerns was about being able to switch capital to revenue—that was something that we were looking to do. But, actually, as a result of the additional advance funding I was able to negotiate with the Treasury, I'm actually more interested in different flexibilities now. So, one would be, for example, the ability to draw down more from our Wales reserve, should we need it, or to carry more over at the end of the financial year, if we felt that was prudent to do as well. Because, obviously, the crisis is no respecter of financial years, and things can happen right at the end of a financial year, or at the beginning, and it makes the budget management very difficult.
Now, all of these things are things that the UK Government could very, very simply agree to. They don't involve additional funding; they simply involve allowing us to use the funding that we have in the best way. So, I'll continue to have those discussions. I know that there's sympathy, actually, from various parts of the Senedd on that—and beyond—so, if we can work collaboratively on that, I'd welcome those opportunities.
Brexit Party spokesperson, Mark Reckless.
The First Minister, a couple of weeks ago, was asked, I believe, about income tax rises, potentially, next year, and I think he replied that, with COVID, the economy was so weak that it'd be wrong to contemplate any increase in income tax. Does that mean that income tax rises should only be considered when the economy is strong?
So, as you say, the First Minister was interviewed on precisely this issue, and he did say that he wouldn't consider raising income taxes for people when the economy was in a very difficult situation and, potentially, in a recession. Of course, we've looked ahead at the data that we've had from the Bank of England, from others, as to what the economy might look like. Obviously, there are severe difficulties in terms of the crisis anyway, but, as we move closer towards the end of the year and potentially facing a 'no deal' Brexit, obviously that will compound the issues facing us. So, the First Minister was quite clear that there would be no intention to increase income taxes when the economy was in a particularly difficult situation. And, of course, I know that we're all turning our minds towards this as we think of what we will be offering the people of Wales in the upcoming election, and I look forward to a debate on income tax later on in the Chamber this afternoon too.
Given the very significant impact on the Welsh Government's finances of the COVID crisis, and, in particular, the likely reduction in tax yield because of more stringent measures in Wales compared to what the UK Government has done for England, how, ultimately, does the Minister expect to put the public finances back on a sustainable footing? Will she be cutting spending? Will she be increasing Welsh rates of income tax? Or will she be expecting a bail-out from the UK Government?
So, I don't think that the differential rate of moving out of lockdown between Wales and the UK Government will have a big impact on tax yields. Land transaction tax and landfill disposals tax are our two Welsh taxes, and both of those account for a relatively small portion of the Welsh Government's budget, and, of course, although the movement out of lockdown was different, actually, across both sides of the border, we both faced severe disruption to these for a significant number of months this year. So, I don't think that the impact will be great on the Welsh Government's budget.
3. What assessment has the Minister made of the UK Government's proposals to provide funding to complete the M4 relief road? OQ55554
The decision on whether or not to proceed with the M4 relief road was, and remains, an entirely devolved matter.
That's not what everyone in the UK Government says, is it? You referred earlier, Minister, to what you said were two clauses that could not be more damaging to Wales. If I understood correctly, those were two clauses enabling, or at least confirming, the ability of UK Government to spend money in devolved areas over and above money already committed by devolved Government. Surely, for most people outside the Cardiff Bay bubble, that would be an unambiguously good thing, if they have the UK Government spending money over and above what Welsh Government spends. Given, in your election manifesto, you said you would build the M4 relief road, if UK Government is willing to pay for that instead, and we get it without having to pay for it, wouldn't that be a good thing?
The internal market Bill says nothing about spending on public services over and above the Welsh Government's budget. I'm sure that, if we're all honest, we would understand that this will mean a reduction in the Welsh Government's budget. And, of course, I'm not going to rake over the decision that was made some time ago now by the First Minister, but affordability was part of that. The other major concern that he had was about the environmental impact of the plans as well. But, as I say, this currently remains the purview of the Welsh Government.
Can I ask, Minister—can I ask you about the 29 houses that were purchased for over £15 million via compulsory purchase orders in preparation for the building of the M4 relief road, and, specifically, the two properties that were bought for just under £1 million in April of last year, just two months before the First Minister took the decision to abandon the M4 relief scheme? People looking in will certainly, I think, feel that these decisions on spends were disjointed. We've now seen £157 million of taxpayers' money wasted. In regards to the properties purchased, money would have been spent, of course, on professional fees. The properties themselves remain as assets. Can you provide an update in regards to the position of these properties? Have they been sold? Are they being marketed? And how much capital has been released back to the Welsh Government to allow it to spend on other capital projects?
I will have to liaise with my colleague the Minister for enviroment—sorry, the Minister for economy and transport—in relation to your question about the properties, are they being sold, have they been sold and so on. I'm afraid I don't have that answer, but I'll ensure that you do get it.
Minister, would you agree with me that if UK Government has funding available for transport infrastructure in south-east Wales it should come to the Welsh Government to decide how it should be spent? And, in line with the M4 commission, it should be spent on public transport infrastructure, for example, a new walkway station in Magor, which is very much supported by the local community.
Yes, I do absolutely agree with John Griffiths on this. He, as well as I, welcomes the latest report from Lord Burns and his team and the significant evidence base that sits behind that, and, of course, it recommends a significant upgrade to the south Wales relief rail lines as part of an integrated multimodal public transport network. This, of course, is something that John Griffiths has been promoting for his area for some time, and it does point the way to a more sustainable, long-term alternative to car use in that part of the world. I think that this is the right way forward, and we're very happy to work with John Griffiths and others to ensure that we can play our part in making that a reality.
4. Will the Minister make a statement on any consequential funding the Welsh Government has received as a result of the UK Government's remediation of non-aluminium cladding material buildings fund? OQ55537
As set out in my letter of 24 April to the Finance Committee, the Welsh Government received consequentials of £58 million capital and £1.2 million revenue as a result of the UK Government's building safety fund announced in March.
Thank you. Thousands of people in Wales live in flats that are at risk of fire. The properties are worthless. There is a Welsh Grenfell waiting to happen. I visited Victoria Wharf and shot a video showing the incredible toll this is having on residents, and 750,000 people have viewed the video, and saw and heard residents say that they wrote to you and the First Minister and, I quote, they've heard not a word back. They did get a response from Lynda Thorne, the cabinet member for housing in Cardiff, saying, and I quote again:
'The problem is that members of the Welsh Government are up for election in May next year, and so although'
the housing Minister
'is committed, everything depends on the results of those elections.'
It's shameless that you seem to be trying to blackmail people into voting Labour instead of addressing the very serious problems. The Conservatives in London have introduced a £1 billion fund to start fixing the problems in England, but a civil servant in Wales has stated:
'While the Welsh Government will receive some consequential funding, it is for Welsh Ministers to decide how this money will be spent in Wales.'
So, have you actually decided now, and can the thousands of people—thousands—living in unsafe flats that are worth nothing expect some kind of Government help and Government action, and a response, whether there's an election or not?
Well, what's shameless, Llywydd, is that performance there, I have to say. You will have heard from the Minister for Housing and Local Government just last Wednesday that the Welsh Government is committed to exploring ways forward. We recently published our position statement, and that proposes a new building safety regime that puts the safety and well-being of residents at its heart to ensure that people feel safe in their homes regardless of tenure, and that the ethos applies throughout the design, construction and occupation of those affected buildings. Those reforms will go much further than just making improvements to high-rise buildings; this is about making sure that all residents in Wales are safe.
In terms of that piece of correspondence, clearly it would have had a response from the Minister for Housing and Local Government's department—if it hasn't arrived yet, I'm sure it will be on the way shortly—because obviously the Minister for housing is the appropriate person to address that issue. In the case of Victoria Wharf in Cardiff Bay, I do know that officials are due to meet with the chair of the residents' association shortly to discuss this issue further.
Minister, this is one of the most significant consequentials that the Welsh Government has received in the fifth Senedd, and whilst I can accept that you may not have needed the whole £58 million, because we have a different pattern to England, a substantial amount of that is required. As you dither and, frankly, deflect the concerns of the leaseholders into some sort of long-term plan to improve the system—which I agree with, incidentally—we have an immediate problem now. Fire insurance has gone up tenfold in some of these places, so the tenants are facing a £1,000 bill for their contribution to that aspect of the service charge. It's astonishing. And then the capital costs they face can go from anything from £10,000 upwards towards £40,000, and there is a fire enforcement order imminent. They need help now, you've been given the money, you should pass it on in an appropriate scheme now.
Okay. So, these are serious issues, and I will treat them with the seriousness that they deserve. And, as I said, the Minister's officials will shortly be meeting with the chair of the residents' association to discuss these issues in more depth, as the Minister who is responsible for policy in this area.
In terms of Welsh Government funding, the Member will be aware that, although we received additional capital in the UK Government's March budget, it didn't take account of the £100 million capital that the UK Government took out of our budget, and £100 million of financial transaction capital that the UK Government took out of our budget, right at the end of the financial year. So, I don't think that we can take consequentials quite in such simple terms.
5. Will the Minister provide an update on revenues from the land transaction tax? OQ55535
Land transaction tax revenues in 2019-20 were £260 million. To date, revenues in the current financial year are down 47 per cent compared to the same period last year. The Office for Budget Responsibility will publish a new revenue forecast for the Welsh Government with the draft budget.
Thank you, Minister. The drop in land transaction tax revenue by 47 per cent, I think you said, is indeed worrying but understandable during the lockdown, due to the massive slowdown in the housing market. Getting revenues up depends on getting the market moving, I'm sure you're aware of that. Whilst I welcome your introduction of a stamp duty holiday, I have questioned the threshold of £250,000 that has been introduced. Now, whilst I understand that house prices across Wales are, on average, considerably lower than across the border, certainly compared with the south-east of England, there are nonetheless houses much higher in value than that near the Wales-England border. Will you keep the stamp duty holiday under review, so that if the housing market near the border isn't seen to be picking up as fast as the other side of the border, where there is that holiday of up to £500,000, then action can be taken? Because I'm sure you'd agree with me that it's important that land transaction tax rates in Wales are stabilised and that there isn't too much of a distortion in border areas, where a large proportion of the Welsh population live and where revenue is raised.
Yes, I do keep all rates and thresholds under review, always looking to the market to see what's happening. It is the case, I think—and Nick will agree with me on this—that tax only plays a part in the decision regarding somebody's choice as to where to live, and I'm sure that he will think of 1,000 wonderful reasons to live in his constituency of Monmouthshire as well, but I do understand that house prices in Monmouthshire are much higher than in other parts of the country.
We do have the opposite situation, then, of course, across the border in north Wales, where houses in Flintshire and Wrexham, for example, are around 25 per cent lower than across the border in Cheshire west, Cheshire and Shropshire. So we do see a very differential picture across Wales, but, yes, I do keep these issues under constant review.
6. What progress has the Welsh Government made in reshaping public procurement in order to strengthen the foundational economy? OQ55543
In April, we appointed the Centre for Local Economic Strategies to embed the community wealth building concept, to work with public services boards to deliver progressive procurement approaches, to localise their supply chain and to drive up the engagement of local businesses in public procurement to effect systemic change in local economies across Wales.
Thank you for that answer, Minister. I just want to address the threat that is posed to food security, given the rising possibility of no trade deal with the European Union. As Professor Tim Lang, the food expert, said again today, we are a nation without a food larder. And that statement applies just as much to Wales as to the rest of the UK, with supermarkets operating on a just-in-time basis and huge numbers of families relying on surplus food from food banks. So, lorries parked up at new frontier crossings and the inevitable high prices can but aggravate this fragile food supply chain that we already have. We could and should, in my view, already be strengthening the foundational economy by substituting everyday temperate fruit and veg that we currently import with home-grown produce. So, in light of the work that the Welsh Government has done to streamline procurement frameworks, what consideration have you given to using green procurement deals, particularly in partnership with local government, as highlighted in the recent Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development report as being effective mechanisms used by other European countries to mitigate this threat to our food security?
So, we are working very closely with large public sector bodies such as the NHS to ensure expenditure on food produce can be sourced and procured as locally as possible from within Wales, to try and ensure that kind of security that Jenny Rathbone's talking about. And as part of the foundational economy challenge fund and the manufacturing plan, we have a real focus now on food.
There's a strand of the foundational economy work that is also considering, in partnership with the Centre for Local Economic Strategies, how public sector anchor organisations might be the key shapers of food markets for the future. We also have a relatively new approach in Wales with Caerphilly council now managing the collaborative food frameworks, which were originally led by the Welsh Government National Procurement Service. The Caerphilly food-buying team are really experienced, and they do have a really good proven track record in developing the Welsh food supply. I know that you've previously talked in the Chamber about the Woosnam Dairies example, and I think that they've been involved particularly in that. They're also working with the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs and her team to try and explore some further opportunities for securing more locally sourced produce. So, this is certainly a priority area for the team.
I thank the Minister for Finance.
The next item is the questions to the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language. The first question is to be answered by the Deputy Minister, and the question comes from Jack Sargeant.
1. How is the Welsh Government working with grass-roots sports clubs to help them connect with communities? OQ55542
We can't hear you, Deputy Minister. You need to unmute yourself, please.
Dafydd, can you hear me and can you hear that you need to—?

I was under the impression that it was being controlled centrally.
Carry on—we can hear you all right now.
Thank you. I'm very grateful, Jack, for your question. The Welsh Government and Sport Wales, we continue to work with partners to assist the grass-roots sports clubs. We recently announced a £14 million sport and leisure coronavirus recovery fund, and this is intended to support a range of sporting organisations.
Thank you for that answer, Deputy Minister. A constituent of mine, Simon Walker from Connah's Quay Bowling Club, has just been elected to the position of chairman of the BowlsWales development committee. As many will know, grass-roots bowls has huge benefits for people's mental and physical health. Simon tells me that it's the only sport you can play for the whole of your life—a nine-year-old can compete against a 90-year-old. Deputy Minister, would you be willing to meet with Simon on behalf of the development committee to hear first-hand the benefits that bowls can bring to communities and relay that information to Welsh Government colleagues?
I would be very happy to meet with your constituent. He might be able to encourage me to take up the sport. I have, in fact, visited a number of the disabled and other active bowlers' clubs. I remember, in particular, my visit to Pembrokeshire to visit the club there, and I think it's important that we encourage as much diversity and variety of physical activity so that people can participate, so I look forward to arranging a meeting as soon as we can.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.
Thank you. Russell George. No. No Russell George. Okay.
Question 2, then, is going to be answered by the Deputy Minister for culture. Andrew R.T. Davies.
2. What support will the Welsh Government make available to help recreational sport in Wales over the winter period? OQ55553
Sorry, Minister, we can't hear you again, so can you unmute?
I assumed it's clear that if I'm being called to reply to a question that I'm required to be unmuted. Does it mean I have to unmute myself every time?
I think that's—. Yes, I'm being told 'yes'. Sorry, yes, I am. So, sorry about that. Sorry. Carry on.
All right. That is no longer a matter for me because I don't organise the activities of the Assembly.
We know that participating in recreational sport has a very positive impact, obviously, for all ages, and we work, as I said, with Sport Wales. We have been using these major organisations of ours to distribute funds and to assess applications and I look forward to applications for recreational sport over the winter period so that we can take further the investment that we already made through the sports council.
Thank you, Minister, for that response. Obviously, some element of Government money has been made available for sports and grass-roots sports, the £14 million that was announced last week, but with the new regulations that are now in place and some politicians mulling over that these regulations could be in place for some considerable time, that's going to put a huge restriction on clubs, especially grass-roots clubs, to get through the winter months, especially like Barry Town FC, for example, Old Pens Rugby Club up in Penarth. How is the Government assessing how the new regulations that have been put in place will impact on grass-roots clubs' ability to operate and survive these coming winter months?
Clearly, we continue to assess the impact of the pandemic on all activities and especially when we have to respond as a Government collectively, with the support of the Assembly, to respond to those situations. The key thing is that we have a full and proper picture of the needs of each sector and I would encourage individual clubs and obviously the governing bodies of sporting clubs to approach Welsh Government directly, so that we can process and consider, with the help of our advisers in the sports council, what is required.
Gweinidog, Newport Cricket Club, as I know you are aware, have done a great job over a period of years in building up their activities and improving their ground. They're volunteer run; they produce some really good girls' cricket teams, players for Glamorgan and have hosted Glamorgan matches. They're in some difficulty at the moment, really, around coronavirus because their winter cricket school used premises at Newport Live, the leisure trust, but Newport Live have now commandeered that space for a socially distanced gym and it's no longer available to the cricket club, which will greatly reduce their income and will risk them losing young players and losing their interest over those winter months. They do have—Newport Cricket Club—old squash courts on their ground that could be adapted for an indoor cricket school through the winter and a feasibility study would be very useful in that regard. I wonder if you could have a look at this, Minister, and consider how Welsh Government might assist them in overcoming these issues.
Well, as you know, I do know the site you refer to and we are very keen in terms of our sports policy for full participation in cricket and in other sports by young men and young women, indeed, people of all ages who wish to participate. We are aware of the need for such a feasibility study and I would be very happy to see further evidence of the relationship that the club is developing with partners, including Sport Wales. I will raise this issue with Sport Wales myself to ensure that there is a continuing discussion with Newport City Council, with Sport Wales and Newport Live.
We have, of course, an issue that relates in this way to the operation of leisure centres by agencies that are no longer part of the local government. So, the situation is not simple, but we are very keen in Welsh Government that we are able to support the activities at the grass roots, as it were—or should I say on the cricket pitch, in this case—to ensure that they do relate to the local community regardless of the governance of the sport.
I now turn to spokespersons' questions. The first this afternoon is the Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Siân Gwenllian.
Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. The funding problems of the arts sector as a result of COVID continue, and I think that you agree with me that freelance workers are specifically under a great deal of pressure. You told the culture committee of the Senedd that the £7 million for freelance workers in the cultural sector wasn’t sufficient. And I’m sure you’ve seen the comprehensive report of the freelance taskforce for Wales, which brings forward a great deal of important recommendations. This report also includes many concerns with regard to the development of Welsh-medium work in this specific sector. So what plans or schemes do you have to ensure that freelance workers have the support that they need, and would you be willing to work with this taskforce, and with the Arts Council of Wales, and other organisations, to implement the recommendations of the report? What specific plans do you have as a Government to safeguard and grow the Welsh-medium sector during the pandemic?
Well, the Welsh-medium sector, in an officially bilingual nation, and a Senedd where we meet where both languages are official, is central to everything that we do as a Government, of course. So there’s no question that we’re not treating Welsh language provision at the same level as English language provision. And indeed, provision in other languages spoken by the citizens of Wales is also very important to us.
But the other point to emphasise here, I think, which is crucial, is that, in providing our plans as Government, we do ensure that the funding available from us—be that provided from our reallocated budgets, or whether it comes from the UK Government—that those funds are distributed as soon as possible in order to ensure that we meet the need. That’s what we have done, particularly with the £53 million, but with the reallocated internal budget—it’s more than that—that’s being provided for the arts.
What’s important is that applications come through quickly, and the arts council have responded very swiftly, I have to say, in administrating parts of the budget, and we as a Welsh Government will also administer our budget in accordance with that. It’s important that these individuals are given an assurance that there is opportunity for them to maintain their livelihoods, although they will have to discover ways of performing and operating in spaces that are different to what the situation was in the past whilst this public health crisis continues.
Thank you very much. I note that you haven’t answered my question with regard to the freelance taskforce and their recommendations in the report—
I have read their recommendations, but I’m not going to respond directly to any taskforce, because I think it’s a self-appointed taskforce, not a Government taskforce.
May I turn to another issue, namely journalism? I’d like to know what discussions you have had with regard to the future of English-medium print journalism in Wales. Have you been discussing with Reach, for example? I’d like to know how the Government can provide support—at arm’s length of course, but support despite that—to the English-medium print industry.
My first discussion, as it happened, wasn’t with Reach, but with the National Union of Journalists. I have had a discussion with them, and there will be further discussions. I will also be having further discussions with Reach. But what I hope to establish is a model that will be able to provide public funding to English language journalism that corresponds to what is available in literary and journalistic publications through the medium of Welsh. Because it’s always been clear to me, as one interested in both cultures and both languages, that there wasn’t equality of provision in this situation. So I do hope that we can take action through Creative Wales, because that is the new agency that we have within Government. Because of the current situation with this plague that we are suffering, we haven’t been able to make as swift a progress as we would have hoped, but there is a Creative Wales director in place now and he’s a very experienced public official and we will be acting through Creative Wales to establish a funding model. But it will be at arm’s length of Government, because that was what was important to me also. We need a model similar to the arts council model, where artistic decisions and journalistic decisions in this context are made not by politicians but by a quasi-independent body of Government.
Thank you very much. We look forward to seeing that work coming to fruition, because I’m sure you’ll agree that the newspaper industry and having a prosperous sector is vital to public life and democracy in Wales. So, I’m pleased to hear what you say today on that.
May I turn to one other area to conclude? Last Thursday, I believe it was, the Welsh Government announced a fund for support for sport worth £14 million, which is to be welcomed of course, but one of the problems that people in that area have mentioned to me is that some of this funding has to go to innovation plans and they see that as being very difficult because, truth be told, they need to fill the gaps that are arising as a result of a lack of income. So, why have you chosen to focus on innovation rather than focusing on assisting organisations to survive as a result of the lack of income that they’re facing at the moment?
We considered this issue carefully, and one of the things that’s been important to me over the years is that if people are to access public funds, that shouldn’t be available to them free of charge and that it’s just a matter of ticking the boxes, but that we also find new ways of working creatively in order to help to bring people through this crisis that we’re currently facing. That was at the heart of the decision that there should be creative requirements attached to how we make use of public funds. It’s not an attempt to refuse funding to individuals or institutions, but I didn’t want to pour money into old creative institutions that, perhaps, aren’t the kinds of institutions that new audiences will respond and react to. So, that was behind that. And, again, Creative Wales will be responsible for oversight and providing advice on this situation.
Conservative spokesperson, Laura Jones.
Deputy Minister, I know that a lot of the Chamber follow on social media, as do I, Joe Wicks, who was a physical and mental health hero, I suppose, during the national lockdown period. He posted a video this morning on how he's being affected mentally by all the latest coronavirus regulations and things like that, which I thought was very brave, and he also said how the physical exercise helps him through that.
The last six months have taken their toll on people's physical and mental well-being, something that was addressed earlier in the First Minister's statement, and there's very much a lot of evidence to suggest that physical exercise can actually help mental health. Therefore, I'd like to just reiterate calls by our shadow Minister for health and sport, Andrew R.T. Davies, earlier for more support to be put into recreational sport across Wales.
PE with Joe, which was something that Joe Wicks did, was such a success for whole families, of all ages, and their mental and physical health during the lockdown period, as were the videos they tailored for the elderly, particularly those who were shielding. I'm not suggesting that you and the First Minister start doing exercise videos for the nation, Minister, but it is something that is very good, and maybe we should we look into, because it's a great way of getting into people's houses, helping them to exercise, encouraging them to exercise and maybe it's something that we should look at on a Wales-wide basis and be free for use.
In areas where we have localised lockdowns, it made me think how are we reaching those people. Because of the obvious restrictions now on people, how are you ensuring that people are still able to take part in physical exercise, and how are you encouraging them to do so?
Well, I have an overall responsibility within Government for encouraging physical activity, which I still do myself. I'm not going to invite you to come and film me in Llandaff fields. I do, but it's a slow jogging process. But I think it's essential that we do, as a Government, repeat these messages, because one of the key things that I'm looking for, as we struggle through the pandemic, is how we develop good practice and better communication, so that the messages that we send out, the health messages that we produce, are ones that people find it easy to respond to. So, it's got to be a choice of which kind of physical activity. We spoke earlier about bowls; it depends what kind of physical activity people opt for—not just one thing or the other. We must make these activities as available as possible, in collaboration, obviously, with our major funders, which, through Welsh Government—it goes to the users of services.
Thank you, Minister. To enable people to partake in sport during the winter months is absolutely essential. It's always been essential, but now more than ever during this pandemic. Rural areas, often deemed affluent by the Welsh Government, are critically poor in a lot of areas when it comes to sporting facilities, especially those that can be used during the winter months to ensure that people and clubs can continue their sporting activities throughout the coldest and rainiest of months. What steps are you taking, Minister, to ensure that everybody across all areas of Wales has access to all-weather sporting facilities within their own communities, so they don't have to travel?
I will take note of that, because it's clearly something we need to ensure that we do provide and do respond to properly. I'm tempted to say we should ensure adequate supplies of thermals for all, but maybe that wouldn't be appropriate coming out of my budget; well, I haven't got much of a budget anyway. But to the extent that we could, I think that the obvious thing is to make people feel comfortable exercising in the interesting and diverse climate that we have in Wales.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Finally, the National Trust is facing considerable financial difficulty due to the coronavirus. They are reported to be facing losses of some £200 million as a result of the pandemic, and have had to review every aspect of their charity to make savings in almost every area of activity. One such attraction currently at risk is the roundhouse in the Kymin, which is a major tourist attraction in the area, attracting 65,000 visitors a year. The trust is currently consulting on closing the roundhouse, which would present a major blow to the local economy. Can you confirm that the full amount of funding provided by the UK Government to support arts and culture organisations in Wales is being used for the purpose intended, and what action can you take to ensure sites of historic importance, like the roundhouse, are kept open?
I have visited the Kymin. I think it was one of the early properties—I think it was 1902 that it was a gift to the National Trust. It's a very distinctive site. I have had discussions with the National Trust, and my senior officials, especially the head of Cadw, have had discussions with the National Trust. I think the way to respond to your question is to assure you that I want a stronger partnership between National Trust Cymru and Welsh Government and Cadw, because I think here is an opportunity now, as we reopen, or hopefully gradually reopen sites of this kind, for us to co-operate.
Obviously, we cannot fund the National Trust as if it were just another applicant, but if the National Trust has serious proposals, which would include a partnership with Welsh Government, I would be strongly in favour of that. I do live in the middle of National Trust property in the north; I should declare an interest. Though the actual cottage that we have is not a National Trust property; I don't think the National Trust would want it.
Thank you. Question 3, Russell George.
Sorry, Deputy Presiding Officer, I had an issue earlier on this afternoon.
3. Will the Minister make a statement on the marketing and promotion of mid Wales as a tourist destination? OQ55541
Thank you for that. You may be aware that mid Wales, for me, is a very important, central part of the economy and the regional life of Wales. And we have emphasised in our tourism policy that we have, indeed, four regions in Wales, and therefore we encourage visitors whenever we can to mid Wales as a tourism destination, although, clearly, the slogan is still 'Visit Wales. Safely'.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. I'm obviously pleased to hear that. The restoration of the Montgomery canal, which is an important site of interest, has the potential to promote, I believe, mid Wales as a tourist destination and make a significant contribution to the visitor economy. I'm sure you will fondly remember the visit that you and I undertook to the canal just a couple of years ago.
It is estimated that restoring the canal would generate an annual spend of approximately £5 million and create 128 full-time jobs. We do need, I think, some fresh impetus into the campaign to restore the 'Monty', as it's called and referred to, so I would be grateful to hear about any recent discussions that Welsh Government may have had, perhaps with the UK Government or Powys County Council, in terms of incorporating this project into a potential mid Wales growth deal. I appreciate that might be a little bit outside of your immediate portfolio, Deputy Minister, but would you also agree to set up a project working group to look at how the Welsh Government can take a lead in the canal's restoration and take advantage of a number of funding sources?
I have a huge personal affection and interest in the Welsh waterways. After all, they are the first conduits of our early industrial revolution and they occur now in bits. In fact, I have a map, which I can't reach for, sitting here, of the inland waterways of Wales and of the canal system in particular. The answer to your specific question is: yes, I'm very happy to continue further discussions.
I have worked in the past with Bwrdd Glandŵr Cymru—the Canal and River Trust—and I'm happy to continue those discussions. Clearly, Powys County Council would have a major role here and I think the development of mid Wales as an area of relaxation, and its very important location as a large border area, is something that I don't think we take sufficiently seriously when we look at what happens in Wales. There's a lot of talk about Snowdonia, about the north-east now, with the excitement in Gwrych castle, about what happens in the south-west and, of course, in the cities—Cardiff, Newport, Swansea—and in the region of south-east Wales. But I think mid Wales, for me—. And I have to tell you because of the fact that—I'm not under lockdown, but I have had a personal lockdown since the beginning of March, but my only visit for recreation was in fact to Vyrnwy, and I felt much better after being there.
Thank you. Huw Irranca-Davies.
Dirprwy Lywydd, my apologies, there was a bit of a delay then because the cursor would not allow me to unmute.
Minister, once they let me out of Bridgend at some point, when we get on top of this virus, I'm looking forward to getting my gaiters on and heading up the Cambrian Way through mid Wales. It is a great gem and, of course, last year, along with Ramblers Cymru, we launched the Cambrian Way, along with Cicerone, the great route maker that publishes the best routes worldwide. But could you tell me, Minister, in encouraging more people out into the wilds of mid Wales, which are a great undiscovered gem—I have to say, they really are—how do we also make sure that people have respect for the countryside as well and that they leave no trace? I'm old enough to remember the old countryside code as well. How do we make sure that we educate a new generation of people to enjoy the countryside but to look after it as well?
Well, this is a key part of the tourism relationship, of the visitor and host relationship, and people in the countryside clearly have to be positive in their welcome and reception of visitors, but visitors and walkers particularly have to have an understanding of the nature of the countryside communities, and of the misunderstanding very often of the relationship between rights of way, permissive rights and statutory rights—footpaths and so on. So, I think the important thing here is that the messages that we promote through Visit Wales and the messages that we promote through our relationship with agricultural unions and the landowners are messages that look for sustainable tourism and sustainable countryside recreation.
4. Will the Minister make a statement on promoting the Welsh language among young children? OQ55536

Thank you very much, Mike, and thank you for asking the question in Welsh. Through Cymraeg i Blant, the language charter, Mudiad Meithrin, the Urdd, the mentrau iaith and many other methods, there are many opportunities for children to use the Welsh language. I will also be publishing a policy on transmission of the Welsh language between parents and children before the end of the year, which will again be the basis for a new programme of work.
Thank you for that response, Minister. I, like many others here, am aware of how difficult it is to become fluent in Welsh as an adult. So, what discussions has the Minister had with colleagues on the importance of starting learning Welsh at a young age, particularly in terms of support for Mudiad Meithrin and Ti a Fi and ensuring that they have a positive start through the medium of Welsh?
Thank you very much. That was excellent, Mike, and I think that the questions are very fair too. Of course, what we do try to do to reach 1 million Welsh speakers is to ensure—. To reach that target, we want to ensure that more children receive their education through the medium of Welsh. So, around 20 per cent currently receive their education through the medium of Welsh, and we want that to get to 40 per cent. That's quite a major step and, of course, the way to do that is by starting with nursery provision, and that's why Mudiad Meithrin have opened more settings where there is an opportunity for children to come together to learn Welsh in areas where there is no such provision at the moment. But before that, 20 new Ti a Fi cylchoedd have been established throughout Wales, and they provide an opportunity for people just to step into the Welsh language and try it out before they send their children to those Welsh-medium nursery schools.
So, we try to encourage children to use the Welsh language, but, of course, once they go into Welsh-medium schools, we also have to ensure that they use the Welsh language socially. So, that's why we use initiatives such as the mentrau iaith to ensure that they have opportunities to practice the Welsh language once they're able to speak it.
I'm pleased, Minister, that you mentioned parents because the visible support of parents and carers for the Welsh language is very influential in terms of how a young child accepts bilingualism as part of how he or she sees him or herself, which is very important beyond locations such as the cylchoedd and the ysgolion meithrin. Baby massage and yoga, around the football pitch at a local sports ground, a local shop—these are all friendly areas where parents can use the Welsh language themselves while they are with their own children. And programmes such as Cymraeg i Blant, which you've already mentioned, and Clwb Cwtsh are crucial in the work of supporting parents on their children's journey towards bilingualism. But what else can you suggest that isn't online to enhance parents' experience so that they can become the main promoters of the Welsh language to young children, by actually showing their commitment, and that's very important, as you've said, in the non-Welsh speaking areas?
Thank you very much. I think that's a very important point, because there is a risk that people see the language as something artificial that's only spoken in schools, so it's important that they see that this is a way of life as well. And that's why Cymraeg i Blant is an opportunity for people to do just that, but, of course, at the moment it's difficult, and that's why all of that work has moved online, and it's very important at the moment that we give opportunities for those who don't have opportunities to speak Welsh at home, and who haven't been able to attend school for months—that they have an opportunity to use the Welsh language as well.
We've been sharing ideas through social networks to parents, so that they can see what is out there, so there is 'Llond haf o Gymraeg'—that's a hashtag that people can use to find activities, initiatives, that they can use with the Welsh language. But, of course, what else we're going to do is adopt this idea of language transmission between people within their families. That's really sensitive and really difficult to do, but it is something that we are trying to focus on at the moment, to see how we can get more of those people who don't quite have the confidence, who haven't spoken Welsh for years, since they left school—that they might start using the Welsh language again.
5. Will the Minister make a statement on Welsh Government support for tourism in north Wales? OQ55559
Yes, thank you very much, Darren. The support that we've given to the tourism industry in north Wales is the most generous in the United Kingdom, especially through the economic resilience fund. Tourism businesses in Wales as a whole benefited over £27 million from the first two phases of the economic resilience fund, of which £8 million pounds was spent in north Wales.
Thank you for that answer, Deputy Minister. You'll be aware that Gwrych castle will be the focus of millions of viewers' eyes from November when I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out Of Here! will actually be filmed there, at what is a fairytale venue. Obviously, that gives us a huge opportunity to put north Wales even further on the map for visitors, not just in Wales, but around the world. Can you tell me what action the Welsh Government is taking in order to capitalise on the opportunity that is presented by I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out Of Here! taking place in Abergele, and can you rule yourself in or out of that camp, and have you been approached by ITV?
I am unable to answer the final part of that question. [Laughter.] But, no, I don't intend to participate, I don't think, and I wouldn't be allowed to as Minister for tourism. I couldn't pretend to be part of a tourist activity myself. But I do know Gwrych Castle, obviously, because I was brought up in the county of Conwy, and I am delighted with the very strong support that is being made available to this project. And I think that we can never underestimate the importance of activity that combines both physical activity in the countryside and heritage interest, which is debatable—whether Gwrych castle is a heritage site in the true sense of the word, but now it certainly will be.
Deputy Minister, I was pleased to support the tourism sector in north Wales over the period of lockdown, and the very real threat to businesses, jobs and livelihoods that was predicted if the sector was not opened up in a timely manner. Tourism means not just accommodation, it's museums, animal sanctuaries, stately homes and all of those things that we as residents know are there but take for granted or haven't seen for decades. Will you please join me in asking all of Wales, as well as our visitors, to fall in love again with where we live and get out to see these sites and enjoy these facilities where the new rules allow? Thank you.
Thank you for that very positive question. It's extremely important that we recognise the value to Wales's tourism of visits from within Wales, as well as within our neighbouring countries, especially from over the border from England, as well as from Ireland. And I hope that the activities at Gwrych castle and the television support that will be provided for that in terms of marketing, and the marketing that will be related to that by Visit Wales as our own tourism marketing organisation, will be able to provide the positive message for people to visit these sites in Wales within the context of public health that we have at the moment.
6. What discussions has the Minister had with the Minister for Housing and Local Government regarding the effect of second homes on the Welsh language? OQ55538
Diolch, Neil. Ensuring that people can access affordable homes is crucial for the future sustainability of Welsh-speaking communities. This is a complex issue, of which second homes is a significant factor. I've already discussed this with the Minister for Housing and Local Government, and will continue to prioritise this matter.
I strongly urge the Minister to have discussions with Gwynedd Council, because local government can do a lot. In Gwynedd, 7,000 homes are owned by people who don't even live in Wales. Ten per cent of homes in Gwynedd are used as second homes—more than any other county in Wales. Almost 40 per cent of properties sold in Gwynedd from March 2019 to April 2020 were purchased as second homes—again, more than any other county in Wales. Houses are marketed in England for £400,000, £2 million—one £3 million, just down the road from Mynytho, the village where my wife was born and raised. Local people simply cannot afford to buy houses where they live now, with the average wage in Gwynedd being £16,000 a year. The local council in Gwynedd passed a local development plan that enables, unbelievably, family housing to be converted into holiday accommodation. So, the second home issue is an epidemic that has gone on for decades in Welsh language communities, decimating the language. So, my question, really, is: when are you going to start to do something about people avoiding tax on the second properties, when are you going to overhaul the planning system, and especially local development plans, and when is the Government going to end this scandal?
Diolch, Neil. Just, first of all, to let him know that I did have discussions, not just with Gwynedd Council members last week, but also with representatives from all the rural local authorities around Wales, and this was an issue that we discussed. And what's clear is that it's a really complex issue. We are determined to make sure that it is possible for people who are brought up in an area—that they should be able to stay in the area. But the ways of making sure that happens are rather complex.
Of course, one of the things we've done, and we've committed to, and we are delivering on, is building 20,000 new homes. We're the only nation in the UK where local authorities can charge a premium of up to 100 per cent on the standard rate of council tax on second homes. We're the only part of the UK—not even Scotland; they provided a temporary tax reduction for even buy-to-let investors, we didn't do that in Wales, we transferred some of that money into building new homes.
But I think it's really important that there is an understanding that we've been looking at this for quite a while. We're looking for a way to address this really serious issue. We've discussed it in our Welsh language advisory group, and Dr Simon Brooks is currently undertaking a review of how other areas are dealing with second homes as a part of his work with the Hywel Teifi academy, and I'm hoping that his study will help us to drive a way forward here. We have looked at Cornwall, we have looked at Scotland, we have looked at Jersey—all of them have problems associated with them. So, we're looking for an answer and we haven't come to one yet. So, we are absolutely anxious to make sure that we get the communications with Senedd Members going, and I know that the Minister for housing invited Members who were interested in this to speak to her very recently.
Minister, second homes can be an important part of sustaining the local economy, but there is a very delicate balance to be struck, and I do think that part of the solution is building more—both social housing, which doesn't create this problem, but also it is open to councils, in developing land, to covenant it to a local market. For new build, it does seem to me that that might be an interesting development. I don't think that you can do it retrospectively, because you have to face the fact that these homes are often sold by local people, quite naturally, to the highest bidder, and that's often when they become, then, second homes.
Thank you. Well, I can assure you that we will maintain our support for the social housing grant, and that is the primary source of subsidy for affordable housing in Wales. That is, of course, making a contribution to that 20,000 target. The planning system is something where there is—. We have tried to look at whether there are means of, perhaps, tightening up the planning system so you can't switch from it being a home to a place you can rent. There are some really difficult legal problems associated with that. But, as you say, we have got to get this balance right, because it's also—. Tourism is a really important aspect of those communities, but, at the moment, I think that we have to recognise that the balance in some communities has simply gone too far.
Thank you very much, Minister.
We move to item 4, which is questions to the Senedd Commission. The first question this afternoon will be answered by Rhun ap Iorwerth. Siân Gwenllian.
1. Will the Commission make a statement on the status of the Welsh language in the Senedd's work in light of the administrative court’s judgement in the case of Driver v. Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council? OQ55557

I thank Siân Gwenllian for that question. What happened in this case was that the administrative court re-emphasised the principle that legislative texts made by the Senedd in Welsh and in English have the same weight in law. Both languages therefore need to be consulted in order to properly interpret legislation.
Here in the Senedd, we are on strong legislative foundations as a bilingual legislature. Section 156 of the Government of Wales Act 2006 notes that English and Welsh texts have equal status in legislation. In addition to that, the National Assembly for Wales (Official Languages) Act 2012 states that we have two official languages in the Senedd. The official languages scheme outlines how we treat both languages on that basis. So, we welcome the administrative court's decision to highlight and confirm the equal status of the Welsh language within the legislative context.
Thank you very much. Yesterday, I had an opportunity to discuss this significant court judgment with the Counsel General. There are two significant aspects with regard to this judgment and the Welsh language, and one—the one that we were discussing yesterday—is the right to a Welsh education within a reasonable distance of the home.
Now, I'm raising another matter that was part of that judgment with you today, namely that it's the first time for the Welsh language text of legislation to play a significant part in a legal case, and that's relevant to us. The council in Rhondda Cynon Taf disregarded the Welsh version of the School Standards and Organisation (Wales) Act 2013 and was incorrect to do so, according to the justice. There was also a question with regard to a difference in meaning between the Welsh and English versions of the legislation.
So, do you agree that there are important questions arising from this judgment that require due regard to be paid to them by the Government, Commission and external experts such as the Welsh Language Commissioner, and that there are questions such as ensuring the quality of our bilingual legislative processes, the need to upgrade the status of the Welsh language, and the role of the Senedd in driving forward parity of esteem between the Welsh language and the English language, for the sake of the Welsh language? So, I'd ask you for a commitment today to a careful analysis about the significance of this judgment and any changes that should be made as a result of it.
Thank you for that question. I think Siân Gwenllian is entirely right in emphasising the real significance of this judgment, and I am eager for that to be given proper and detailed attention by the Commission and the Government. I am certain that this is something that will certainly be of interest to the Welsh Language Commissioner's office.
I agree that seeing the Welsh language being confirmed so emphatically in its status should encourage us to ensure that our bilingual legislative processes are robust, and are more robust. It should give us confidence as a Senedd to increase the use of the Welsh language in this Senedd. I invite Members to contribute their ideas on how that can be done as the Members' survey is distributed this week.
And the other point I'd like to make is that the official languages scheme is being reviewed for the sixth Senedd. This adjudication gives that a different context and strengthens the context of that, and I would encourage Members to contribute to that work when the Commission's consultation on it opens.
Thank you.
Thank you. Question 2 and question 3 this afternoon will be answered by the Llywydd. Question 2, Andrew R.T. Davies.
2. Will the Commission make a statement on the practicalities involved with holding hybrid committee meetings in the Welsh Parliament? OQ55562
Thank you for the question. Commission staff have been preparing during the recess for holding hybrid committee meetings. The committee rooms have been adapted to enable some Members, officials and witnesses to attend safely in person, with others participating via Zoom. Two meetings of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee will now be held on 2 and 9 October to test the format and the facilities. In the light of that experience, the Chairs' forum will be discussing the possibility of making the hybrid format available to other committees in the second half of this term.
Thank you for that, Presiding Officer. I think the answer's pretty complete. It gives me a time frame that we can look forward to as Members. Are you hopeful that any announcement will be made prior to the half-term recess? I appreciate that you said, with the practicalities of delivering it, providing the trial goes well, it would be only in the second half of term, but can we as Members expect some form of announcement out of the trial so that we may understand exactly when it might happen?
Well, in our work in developing new ways of working during this period of coronavirus, as we've developed and trialled new ways of working, we've always done so on the basis of having held pilots, to ensure everything in terms of how the Members are able to take part but also how the IT and the clerking system support us. We do that on the basis of running pilots, as we will be doing with the local government committee in a couple of weeks' time.
Then, the Chairs' forum and the views of Chairs on how their committees are running to date and how they aspire to have their committees working into the future will be essential in how we look to see whether there is an appetite to hold more hybrid committee meetings.
We have now ensured that there is the capacity to hold up to two meetings at the same time in a hybrid format. So, we've done the preparatory work in ensuring that the IT capacity and the space is there for at least that number, but it's a matter of seeing how the first few meetings of the local government committee go in future.
All of this, of course, as we all know, is subject to the coronavirus regulations changing, as we are experiencing at the moment, but we want to enable as much activity in the Senedd as is possible, as we've done to date, and we need to trial new ways of working, and continue to do so. So, thank you for the question.
3. What discussions has the Commission had on how to inform the electorate of the Senedd elections in May 2021 despite coronavirus restrictions? OQ55564
The first step of the campaign focused mainly on votes at 16. We've developed a range of activities for use in classrooms and youth groups. During the lockdown, these have also been adapted for home use. For the election campaign, staff are developing materials and plans to ensure that our key message about the election, that voting in Senedd 2021 is the way to get your voice heard in your Senedd, reaches all parts of Wales. We will focus on those newly enfranchised by the Senedd and Elections (Wales) Act 2020, but we will also be addressing traditionally underrepresented groups.
Thank you very much, Llywydd. I’m particularly pleased to hear about the work that’s been done with young people. I want to ask what further work the Commission can do to ensure that people who don’t have English or Welsh as their first language understand that they have a right to vote. There will be many people who don’t have official citizenship, but who are Welsh citizens, in our view, who will have the right to vote for the first time. So, would it be possible, perhaps, to provide materials in relevant languages for those people who may have come here as refugees or to work?
We do work with the Welsh Government and the Electoral Commission and with local authorities as well, of course, to ensure that everyone is aware of the new arrangements and the new franchise for the elections. I accept entirely the point that you make, that we need to do this in languages that are spoken by the citizens of Wales. I will ensure that those who work on this issue do so, because I support what you are saying entirely, that the information that is available about the opportunity is available in the languages spoken in Wales.
I think the connection went down there, Llywydd. Did you manage to get to the end?
We got the gist.
Yes. I think probably—. Diolch. Right, thank you. Huw Irranca-Davies.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Llywydd, I wonder if I could ask you whether there have been any discussions within the Commission, in your work on informing the electorate about the Senedd elections next year, about the applicability of postal voting, particularly with the coronavirus restrictions that we're increasingly seeing across parts of Wales. I realise that this is predominantly a matter for the Electoral Commission and for electoral officers in discussion as well, but it does seem to me and to other Members of the Senedd increasingly that we may face movement restrictions and, as such, postal voting might be a larger part than normal of the electoral process for next year's Senedd elections.
Thank you for the question. I hope that the broadband connection is now stabler than it was during my previous answer. I'm just outside the Chamber and I would have expected that the broadband connection would have been stable enough to reach a few metres for that.
In terms of the question you raised regarding how the election of May 2021 is to be conducted, these are obviously issues that are now becoming very much discussed between the various players who ensure that the election is to happen—local government, the Electoral Commission, Welsh Government and ourselves in this case, for the Senedd election—and discussions are ongoing as to how coronavirus regulations will mean that there may be different ways of undertaking that election possibly needed. So, we will need to be looking at every single way to make the election as safe as possible, if coronavirus regulations remain in place, but democracy needs to be served and everybody needs to have access to that democracy. So, we will need to be making sure that we are able to work and conduct those elections in a way that enables everybody to take part.
4. Will the Commission make a statement on the use of the budget allocated for furniture and fittings? OQ55575
To be answered by Commissioner Suzy Davies. Sorry.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm sorry to turn my back on you, Janet. The furniture and fittings budget, such as it is, is used to provide for any ad hoc office furniture needed in Tŷ Hywel and the Senedd for Members of the Senedd, for their staff and Commission staff. The budget gives the Commission flexibility to meet a person's specific needs that go beyond the provision of standard furniture. Surplus but serviceable furniture items can be reused, used to repair or replace any broken or damaged items, or, of course, recycled.
Thank you. As you rightly pointed out, the budget for accommodation and facilities includes an allocation of £60,000 for expenditure on just furniture and fittings over the past four years. That's a total of £240,000 over four years, and we are all aware of major refurbishments to this place, over this term, that have cost millions. Now, this, into our local economy, the difference, if materials and items were procured from Wales, would go a long way.
In the budget published for 2019-20, it is stated that the Commission is developing a strategy for increasing contract opportunities for Welsh based suppliers and that progress will be monitored regularly through key performance indicators, which is set at 43 per cent of supplier spend to be with Welsh based companies. So, I suppose, really, I'm looking at whether that target has been hit and why we are only setting a target for 43 per cent. Why are we not setting a target for 100 per cent? So, next Assembly term, I would like to see that figure increased.
Also, too, you'll be aware of the campaign by the National Farmers Union and the Farmers Union of Wales, and, indeed, farmers across Wales, for us to actually implement the use, more use, of wool, Welsh wool, in certain things such as carpets in public buildings and other initiatives. So, may I have on record, to a degree, some commitment that the Assembly Commission, going forward, when spending money on refurbishments to this place, will actually look to perhaps start looking to provide a larger target of Welsh goods and procurement, and, indeed, as regards refurnishing with new carpets and things, that wool is given the first priority? Thank you.
Thank you very much, Janet. Just on the first point about the target for Welsh-procured products, we have to bear in mind that things like Microsoft and quite a lot of the kit that's probably even in this Chamber just can't be procured from Wales. So, the target of 43 per cent was set as a realistic and achievable target, which, of course, I think I should put you all on notice, is likely to be affected by the fact that we've been shut down for some time, and just simple things like buying food for the canteen just hasn't been possible. But it remains a target; it's a target we intend to hit, if we possibly can, despite COVID, but I'm just hoping that we'll be able to do that.
On the second point, can I just congratulate the NFU and actually, Janet, you yourself, for raising this campaign about using Welsh wool? As you said, the Commission has got targets for both greater procurement from within Wales, but it also has sustainability goals as well, and the use of natural product within the building—buildings, I should say—is something that we should seriously consider. The suggestion you make could be a valuable contribution for both those target areas.
I do need to add, of course, that we need to use our resources wisely—it's one of our strategic goals—so, we would need to be sure that Welsh wool products could meet the spec for long life, high use and efficient cleaning and reasonable cost, and if those products exist, or will exist, then I'm sure we would be very interested to hear about them. Thank you.
Item 5 is topical questions and none have been accepted this week.
Therefore, item 6 is the 90-second statements, and this week we have Helen Mary Jones.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. This week is Adult Learners' Week. The campaign, led by Learning and Work Cymru, aims to inspire and encourage thousands of adults every year to continue in and return to education and skills development, and to raise awareness of the value of adult learning by celebrating the achievements of learners and providing inspiration to see how adult learning can change their lives.
My constituent Kathryn McLuckie has given me permission to tell her story. She's a 35-year-old learner from Milford Haven and was working as a dinner lady in a local primary school when, very sadly, her relationship broke down. This had a huge emotional impact on her and her children, and she felt lost and alone. One morning, she woke up and decided she needed to do something, so she walked into Pembrokeshire College and enquired about a course that could help her to help others. She has just completed a two-year level 4 course in therapeutic counselling, and she feels like a completely new person. She's just applied for a job as an advocate.
Adult learning and reskilling changes lives. It must be a priority as Wales addresses the challenges of and as we plan to recover as a nation from COVID-19.