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Y Cyfarfod Llawn

Plenary

13/05/2020

Cyfarfu'r Senedd drwy gynhadledd fideo am 13:33 gyda’r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair. 

The Senedd met by video-conference at 13:33 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

Datganiad gan y Llywydd
Statement by the Llywydd

Croeso, bawb, i'r Cyfarfod Llawn. Cyn i ni ddechrau, dwi eisiau nodi ychydig o bwyntiau. Mae'r Cyfarfod Llawn a gynhelir drwy gynhadledd fideo yn unol â Rheolau Sefydlog Senedd Cymru yn gyfystyr â thrafodion y Senedd at ddibenion Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006. Bydd rhai o ddarpariaethau Rheol Sefydlog 34 yn gymwys ar gyfer y Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw; mae'r rhain wedi'u nodi ar eich agenda chi. 

A hoffwn atgoffa'r Aelodau fod Rheolau Sefydlog sy'n ymwneud â threfn yn y Cyfarfod Llawn yn gymwys i'r cyfarfod yma a'r cyfyngiadau amser o ran hyd cwestiynau a gaiff eu cymhwyso i'r cyfarfod hwn, fel sydd wedi eu cyfleu i'r Aelodau.

Welcome, all, to this Plenary session. Before we begin, I want to clarify a few points. A Plenary meeting held by video-conference in accordance with the Standing Orders of the Welsh Parliament constitutes Senedd proceedings for the purposes of the Government of Wales Act 2006. Some of the provisions of Standing Order 34 will apply for today's Plenary meeting and those are noted on your agenda.

And I'd like to remind Members that Standing Orders related to order in Plenary meetings apply to this meeting, as do the time limits in terms of questions that will be applied to this meeting, as communicated to Members.

1. Datganiad a Chyhoeddiad Busnes
1. Business Statement and Announcement

Yr eitem gyntaf felly'r prynhawn yma yw'r datganiad a chyhoeddiad busnes, a dwi'n galw ar y Trefnydd i wneud y datganiad hwnnw. Rebecca Evans.

The first item this afternoon, therefore, is the business statement and announcement, and I call on the Trefnydd to make the statement. Rebecca Evans.

Diolch, Llywydd. There are no changes to this week's agenda. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

Diolch, Llywydd. Does dim newidiadau i agenda'r wythnos hon. Mae'r busnes drafft ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf wedi ei nodi yn y datganiad a chyhoeddiad busnes, sydd i'w gweld ymhlith papurau'r cyfarfod sydd ar gael i'r Aelodau yn electronig.

2. Datganiad gan y Prif Weinidog: Coronafeirws (COVID-19)
2. Statement by the First Minister: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r datganiad gan y Prif Weinidog ar y coronafeirws. Dwi'n galw ar y Prif Weinidog i wneud ei ddatganiad. Mark Drakeford.

The next item is the statement by the First Minister on coronavirus and I call on the First Minister to make the statement. Mark Drakeford.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Yn fy natganiad heddiw, byddaf yn rhoi gwybodaeth i Aelodau'r Senedd ar y camau diweddaraf yn y gwaith o ymateb i'r argyfwng coronafeirws. Yn ôl Deddf Coronafeirws 2020, mae'n rhaid i Weinidogion Cymru adolygu'r rheoliadau bob tair wythnos. Daeth y cyfnod hwnnw i ben ddydd Iau diwethaf, ac ar ddydd Gwener cyhoeddais ein penderfyniadau yn sgil yr arolwg hwnnw. Byddaf yn gosod allan ein penderfyniadau fel Llywodraeth a'r dystiolaeth y tu ôl iddynt. Byddwn yn cadw llygad gofalus ar y dystiolaeth o hyn ymlaen er mwyn dal ati i warchod iechyd pobl Cymru.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. In my statement today, I will update Members of the Senedd on the latest developments in our response to the coronavirus crisis. In accordance with the Coronavirus Act 2020, Welsh Ministers must review the regulations every three weeks. That three-week period lapsed last Thursday, and on Friday I announced our decisions in light of that review. I will set out our decisions as a Government as well as the evidence underpinning those decisions. We will go on closely monitoring the evidence so as to continue to safeguard the health of the people of Wales. 

Llywydd, once again I will update Members of the Senedd on the latest actions in our response to the coronavirus crisis. As in previous weeks, I will focus on matters not covered in the statements that follow from the Minister for Health and Social Services, the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd, and the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs.

Before I do so, I want to start by reflecting on the VE Day celebrations on Friday of last week. Coronavirus obviously changed the way in which we marked this important anniversary, but it was no less poignant or impressive. I had the privilege of speaking to a number of veterans over Zoom and the telephone, and joined tens of thousands of people across Wales in the two-minute silence from the steps of the Welsh Government building in Cardiff. Even in these crisis-dominated times it was absolutely right to find that moment and to recognise the sacrifices made.

Llywydd, last week I updated Members on the progress of the disease. Very sadly, Public Health Wales has reported that more than 1,100 people have died in Wales. Behind each number is a person and a family who are grieving, and these are a sobering reminder of the need for continued vigilance and our shared obligation to go on doing all those things that help us to save lives. And it is because of those efforts that the number of new confirmed cases of coronavirus reported every day by Public Health Wales has continued to fall. About one in 10 people in hospital are being treated for coronavirus at the moment, and around one in five critical care beds are occupied by people with the disease, and this is down from a high point of 42 per cent in the middle of April. Of course, I am very pleased to report that more than 3,000 people in Wales have recovered from coronavirus and have left hospital.

Llywydd, the Welsh Government continues to respond to the impacts of the lockdown on vulnerable citizens, as I set out last week. We know that for some people, home is not a place of safety, and it is essential that those who need help can continue to get it in spite of the current restrictions. The Deputy Minister and Chief Whip has launched a new campaign to make sure victims and survivors of domestic abuse know how they can access support. It encourages bystanders to recognise the signs of domestic abuse and to seek support for those who are unable to help themselves.

And in all this, Llywydd, the work of volunteers in the current crisis is genuinely inspiring. Thousands of people have offered their services. Thanks to the strong partnership structure we have in Wales, county voluntary councils and local authorities moved quickly to match volunteers with the people who need their help, to provide both immediate and long-term support. In Carmarthenshire, for example, more than 360 people responded to a call for help from the local authority to set up furniture and equipment at the county's field hospitals within 24 hours of the appeal going live.

And, Llywydd, the Welsh Government continues to recognise the crucial role of the third sector. Last week, we announced that thousands of small charities in the retail, leisure and hospitality sectors will receive a £10,000 business support grant to help them respond to the financial challenges of COVID-19. This new £26 million package will support an additional 2,600 properties with a rateable value of £12,000 or below, and that includes charity-run shops, sports premises and community centres, which, until now, have not been eligible for this type of support.

Llywydd, I turn now to the statutory three-week review of the lockdown regulations in Wales, which was completed by the Welsh Government last week. This was the second review to have been conducted, and it drew on the latest advice from the UK Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies and the advice of the Chief Medical Officer for Wales.

While we have passed the initial peak of infection, and rates continue to fall, the clear advice from the experts is that it is too early for the restrictions to be lifted. We have, therefore, kept the stay-at-home regulations in place and made three small adjustments, and these adjustments came into force on Monday. We have removed the once-a-day exercise restriction—exercise will need to start and end at home and be local; we have allowed garden centres to open, if they are able to comply with the physical-distancing duty; and we have enabled local authorities to begin to plan for the reopening of libraries and municipal recycling centres.

The evidence underpinning our decision was that the reproduction rate—the R rate—of the virus continues to fall. It is below 1, but if it were to begin to creep above 1 again, we would see the risk of exponential growth. Now, if sustained, these conditions will allow us to take incremental steps over the coming weeks and months further to ease restrictions, but we will only do so when it is safe for that to take place. We will keep the regulations under constant review to enable us to respond to the latest evidence about how the virus is behaving, the effectiveness of restrictions and the levels of compliance.

In all of this, Llywydd, we continue to support a four-nation response to coming out of lockdown, and continue to work with all other parts of the United Kingdom. But, the actions we take and the timing of changes will be determined by conditions here in Wales. In responding to the virus, we have built on our distinctive Welsh infrastructure. Our NHS Wales Shared Services Partnership and our relationships with Welsh businesses have helped us to secure supplies of personal protective equipment from domestic and international sources. But, where there are UK arrangements that can work well for us, we will be part of those as well. On Sunday, the Prime Minister announced a new joint bio-security centre to advise the four chief medical officers on the level of infection across the UK. We are in discussions with the UK Government and other devolved administrations about how this can operate most effectively across the United Kingdom, and I will update the Senedd further as the project develops.

Later this week, we will provide more details about our plans for the weeks ahead. These are being developed with our partners in the trade unions, in businesses, in local government, in the NHS and other public services. We are planning for the future, and when services in Wales do open, the public can be confident that the arrangements will be safe and workable.

Llywydd, the coronavirus crisis is very far from over. The progress of the disease demands a continuous and highly focused response. I will continue to report each week to the Senedd on the actions taken by the Welsh Government. Diolch yn fawr.

Llywydd, unwaith eto, fe roddaf yr wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i Aelodau'r Senedd am y camau diweddaraf yn ein hymateb i argyfwng y coronafeirws. Fel yn yr wythnosau blaenorol, byddaf yn canolbwyntio ar faterion nad ydyn nhw'n cael sylw yn y datganiadau sy'n dilyn gan y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, y Gweinidog Cyllid a'r Trefnydd, a Gweinidog yr Amgylchedd, Ynni a Materion Gwledig.

Cyn i mi wneud hynny, hoffwn ddechrau drwy fyfyrio ar ddathliadau diwrnod VE ddydd Gwener yr wythnos diwethaf. Yn amlwg, newidiodd coronafeirws y ffordd y gwnaethom ni nodi'r pen-blwydd pwysig hwn, ond nid oedd yn llai teimladwy na thrawiadol o'r herwydd. Cefais y fraint o siarad â nifer o gyn-filwyr ar Zoom a thros y ffôn, ac ymunais â degau o filoedd o bobl ledled Cymru yn y ddau funud o dawelwch o risiau adeilad Llywodraeth Cymru yng Nghaerdydd. Hyd yn oed yn yr oes llawn argyfyngau sydd ohoni, roedd yn gwbl briodol dod o hyd i'r foment honno a chydnabod yr aberth a wnaed.

Llywydd, yr wythnos diwethaf rhoddais ddiweddariad i'r Aelodau ar gynnydd y clefyd. Yn drist iawn, mae Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru wedi dweud bod mwy na 1,100 o bobl wedi marw yng Nghymru. Mae person a theulu sy'n galaru y tu ôl i bob rhif, ac mae'r rhain yn ein hatgoffa o'r angen am wyliadwriaeth barhaus a'n hymrwymiad cyffredin i barhau i wneud yr holl bethau hynny sy'n ein helpu ni i achub bywydau. Ac oherwydd yr ymdrechion hynny y mae'r nifer o achosion newydd o goronafeirws a gadarnheir y mae Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn eu cyhoeddi bob dydd wedi parhau i ostwng. Mae tua un o bob 10 o bobl sydd yn yr ysbyty yn cael triniaeth ar gyfer coronafeirws ar hyn o bryd, a phobl sydd â'r clefyd sydd mewn tua un o bob pum gwely gofal critigol, ac mae hyn i lawr o uchafbwynt o 42 y cant yng nghanol mis Ebrill. Wrth gwrs, rwy'n falch iawn o adrodd bod mwy na 3,000 o bobl yng Nghymru wedi gwella o coronafeirws ac wedi gadael yr ysbyty.

Llywydd, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i ymateb i effeithiau'r cyfyngiadau symud ar ddinasyddion agored i niwed, fel y dywedais yr wythnos diwethaf. Rydym ni'n gwybod nad yw'r cartref yn lle diogel i rai pobl, ac mae'n hanfodol bod y rhai sydd angen cymorth yn gallu parhau i'w gael er gwaethaf y cyfyngiadau presennol. Mae'r Dirprwy Weinidog a'r Prif Chwip wedi lansio ymgyrch newydd i wneud yn siŵr bod dioddefwyr a goroeswyr cam-drin domestig yn gwybod sut y gallan nhw gael gafael ar gymorth. Mae'n annog pobl sy'n agos iddyn nhw adnabod arwyddion cam-drin domestig a cheisio cymorth i'r rhai nad ydyn nhw'n gallu helpu eu hunain.

Ac yn hyn i gyd, Llywydd, mae gwaith gwirfoddolwyr yn yr argyfwng presennol wir yn ysbrydoli. Mae miloedd o bobl wedi cynnig eu gwasanaethau. Diolch i'r strwythur partneriaeth cryf sydd gennym ni yng Nghymru, cymerodd cynghorau gwirfoddol sirol ac awdurdodau lleol gamau cyflym i baru gwirfoddolwyr gyda'r bobl sydd angen eu cymorth, i ddarparu cymorth ar unwaith ac yn yr hirdymor. Yn Sir Gaerfyrddin, er enghraifft, ymatebodd mwy na 360 o bobl i alwad am gymorth gan yr awdurdod lleol i drefnu dodrefn ac offer yn ysbytai maes y sir o fewn 24 awr i gychwyn yr apêl.

A Llywydd, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i gydnabod swyddogaeth hollbwysig y trydydd sector. Yr wythnos diwethaf, cyhoeddwyd gennym ni y bydd miloedd o elusennau bach yn y sectorau manwerthu, hamdden a lletygarwch yn cael grant cymorth busnes o £10,000 i'w helpu i ymateb i heriau ariannol COVID-19. Bydd y pecyn £26 miliwn newydd hwn yn cefnogi 2,600 o eiddo ychwanegol â gwerth ardrethol o £12,000 neu is, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys siopau sy'n cael eu rhedeg gan elusennau, safleoedd chwaraeon a chanolfannau cymunedol, nad ydyn nhw, tan nawr, wedi bod yn gymwys ar gyfer y math hwn o gymorth.

Llywydd, trof nawr at yr adolygiad tair wythnos statudol o'r rheoliadau cyfyngiadau symud yng Nghymru, a gwblhawyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru yr wythnos diwethaf. Hwn oedd yr ail adolygiad i gael ei gynnal, a defnyddiodd y cyngor diweddaraf gan Grŵp Cynghori Gwyddonol y DU ar gyfer Argyfyngau a chyngor Prif Swyddog Meddygol Cymru.

Er ein bod ni wedi mynd heibio uchafbwynt cychwynnol yr haint, a bod cyfraddau'n parhau i ddisgyn, y cyngor clir gan yr arbenigwyr yw ei bod hi'n rhy gynnar i'r cyfyngiadau gael eu codi. Felly, rydym ni wedi cadw'r rheoliadau aros gartref ar waith ac wedi gwneud tri addasiad bach, a daeth yr addasiadau hyn i rym ddydd Llun. Rydym ni wedi cael gwared ar y cyfyngiad ymarfer corff unwaith y dydd—bydd angen i ymarfer corff ddechrau a gorffen gartref a bod yn lleol; rydym ni wedi caniatáu i ganolfannau garddio agor, os ydyn nhw'n gallu cydymffurfio â'r ddyletswydd cadw pellter corfforol; ac rydym ni wedi galluogi awdurdodau lleol i ddechrau cynllunio ar gyfer ailagor llyfrgelloedd a chanolfannau ailgylchu cynghorau.

Y dystiolaeth a oedd yn sail i'n penderfyniad oedd bod cyfradd atgynhyrchu—cyfradd R—y feirws yn parhau i ostwng. Mae'n is nag 1, ond pe byddai'n dechrau ymgripio uwchlaw 1 unwaith eto, byddem ni'n gweld y perygl o dwf cyflymach. Nawr, os cânt eu cynnal, bydd yr amodau hyn yn caniatáu i ni gymryd camau cynyddol dros yr wythnosau a'r misoedd nesaf i lacio'r cyfyngiadau ymhellach, ond dim ond pan fydd hi'n ddiogel i hynny ddigwydd y byddwn ni'n gwneud hynny. Byddwn yn adolygu'r rheoliadau'n gyson er mwyn caniatáu i ni ymateb i'r dystiolaeth ddiweddaraf am y modd y mae'r feirws yn ymddwyn, effeithiolrwydd y cyfyngiadau a'r lefelau cydymffurfio.

Yn hyn i gyd, Llywydd, rydym ni'n parhau i gefnogi ymateb pedair gwlad i godi'r cyfyngiadau symud, ac yn parhau i weithio gyda phob rhan arall o'r Deyrnas Unedig. Ond, bydd y camau yr ydym ni'n eu cymryd ac amseriad y newidiadau yn cael eu penderfynu gan amodau yma yng Nghymru. Wrth ymateb i'r feirws, rydym ni wedi adeiladu ar ein seilwaith unigryw i Gymru. Mae ein Partneriaeth Cydwasanaethau GIG Cymru a'n perthynas â busnesau Cymru wedi ein helpu i sicrhau cyflenwadau o gyfarpar diogelu personol o ffynonellau domestig a rhyngwladol. Ond, lle ceir trefniadau ar sail y DU a all weithio'n dda i ni, byddwn yn rhan o'r rheini hefyd. Ddydd Sul, cyhoeddodd Prif Weinidog y DU ganolfan bioddiogelwch newydd ar y cyd i gynghori'r pedwar prif swyddog meddygol ar lefel yr haint ar draws y DU. Rydym ni mewn trafodaethau gyda Llywodraeth y DU a gweinyddiaethau datganoledig eraill ynghylch sut y gall hyn weithredu'n fwyaf effeithiol ledled y Deyrnas Unedig, a byddaf yn rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Senedd wrth i'r prosiect ddatblygu.

Yn ddiweddarach yr wythnos hon, byddwn yn darparu mwy o fanylion am ein cynlluniau ar gyfer yr wythnosau nesaf. Mae'r rhain yn cael eu datblygu gyda'n partneriaid yn yr undebau llafur, mewn busnesau, mewn llywodraeth leol, yn y GIG ac mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus eraill. Rydym ni'n cynllunio ar gyfer y dyfodol, a phan fydd gwasanaethau yng Nghymru yn agor, gall y cyhoedd fod yn ffyddiog y bydd y trefniadau yn ddiogel ac yn ymarferol.

Llywydd, mae'r argyfwng coronafeirws yn bell iawn o fod drosodd. Mae datblygiad y clefyd yn gofyn am ymateb parhaus â phwyslais dwys iawn. Byddaf yn parhau i adrodd bob wythnos i'r Senedd ar y camau a gymerwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Diolch yn fawr.

13:40

Diolch i'r Prif Weinidog. Arweinydd yr wrthblaid, Paul Davies.

Thank you, First Minister. Leader of the opposition, Paul Davies.

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, I'm pleased to see that the Welsh Government has now started publishing the scientific and technical advice that the Welsh Government receives to help inform its policies and respond to COVID-19 here in Wales. As you know, this is something that I've been pushing now for some time, and I think it's important that information is put in the public domain so that the people of Wales can have confidence in the decisions made by the Welsh Government. Now, in that same spirit of transparency and openness with the public, it's important that the Welsh Government comes forward with a road map and a clear plan for exiting the lockdown restrictions in Wales.

The UK Labour Party leader, Keir Starmer, was right to call for a lockdown exit strategy in Westminster, and the Prime Minister has now come forward with the UK Government's plans. Here in Wales, you've already said that the Welsh Government is developing its framework to create a more detailed road map, so can you tell us exactly when the people of Wales can expect to see that road map published, along with a clear set of timescales? Will you also confirm that you'll be publishing the scientific advice that underpins that exit strategy?

Diolch, Llywydd. Prif Weinidog, rwy'n falch o weld bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi dechrau cyhoeddi erbyn hyn y cyngor gwyddonol a thechnegol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei dderbyn i helpu i hysbysu ei pholisïau ac i ymateb i COVID-19 yma yng Nghymru. Fel y gwyddoch, mae hyn yn rhywbeth yr wyf i wedi bod yn gofyn amdano ers cryn amser bellach, ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig bod y wybodaeth honno'n cael ei chyhoeddi fel y gall pobl Cymru fod â ffydd yn y penderfyniadau sy'n cael eu gwneud gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Nawr, yn yr un ysbryd hwnnw o dryloywder a bod yn agored gyda'r cyhoedd, mae'n bwysig bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cyflwyno map ffordd a chynllun eglur ar gyfer codi'r cyfyngiadau symud yng Nghymru.

Roedd arweinydd Plaid Lafur y DU, Keir Starmer, yn iawn i alw am strategaeth codi cyfyngiadau symud yn San Steffan, ac mae Prif Weinidog y DU wedi cyflwyno cynlluniau Llywodraeth y DU erbyn hyn. Yma yng Nghymru, rydych chi eisoes wedi dweud bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn datblygu ei fframwaith i lunio map ffordd mwy manwl, felly a allwch chi ddweud wrthym ni pryd yn union y gall pobl Cymru ddisgwyl gweld y map ffordd hwnnw'n cael ei gyhoeddi, ynghyd â chyfres o amserlenni eglur? A wnewch chi hefyd gadarnhau y byddwch chi'n cyhoeddi'r cyngor gwyddonol sy'n sail i'r strategaeth codi cyfyngiadau honno?

13:45

Llywydd, I thank Paul Davies for those points. I'm very glad that we are publishing the scientific and technical advice. I agree entirely with Paul Davies that it's important that the public is able to see the underpinning evidence that we draw on in making these challenging decisions. My hope is that we will be able to make our plan for exit, as he called it, public on Friday of this week. It is being worked on still. I want it to be clear and I want it to be capable of being readily understood by the readership of the Welsh public. So, that is my ambition—that we will publish it on Friday and do it in a way that does the job that Paul Davies referred to: helping our fellow citizens in Wales to be clear about the plans of the Welsh Government and to understand the basis on which they are being drawn up.

Llywydd, hoffwn ddiolch i Paul Davies am y pwyntiau yna. Rwy'n falch iawn ein bod ni'n cyhoeddi'r cyngor gwyddonol a thechnegol. Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â Paul Davies ei bod hi'n bwysig bod y cyhoedd yn gallu gweld y dystiolaeth sylfaenol yr ydym ni'n ei defnyddio wrth wneud y penderfyniadau anodd hyn. Fy ngobaith i yw y byddwn ni'n gallu llunio ein cynllun codi cyfyngiadau, fel y'i galwyd ganddo, yn gyhoeddus ddydd Gwener yr wythnos hon. Mae gwaith yn dal i gael ei wneud arno o hyd. Rwyf i eisiau iddo fod yn eglur ac rwyf i eisiau iddo allu cael ei ddeall yn hawdd gan ddarllenwyr y cyhoedd yng Cymru. Felly, dyna fy uchelgais—y byddwn ni'n ei gyhoeddi ddydd Gwener ac yn gwneud hynny mewn ffordd sy'n gwneud y gwaith y cyfeiriodd Paul Davies ato: helpu ein cyd-ddinasyddion yng Nghymru i fod yn eglur am gynlluniau Llywodraeth Cymru ac i ddeall ar ba sail y maen nhw'n cael eu llunio.

First Minister, I'm asking for a lockdown exit plan because the people of Wales need that clarity, and right now, there's plenty of confusion over the Welsh Government's regulations and guidance. And I'll tell you why there's confusion: because you yourself have said that two people from different households could meet in a park if they adhere to social distancing guidelines, and then we're told that is not the Welsh Government's advice and members of different households are not allowed to meet in parks; your education Minister has said schools in Wales are closed until 1 June, while your Counsel General thinks that they will definitely be closed for the whole of June; and the Member for Bridgend has said that it's okay for people in Wales to start fishing, allegedly based on a response he's had from you, and yet, in response to a written question tabled by my colleague the Member for Clwyd West you specifically made it clear that, while the restrictions are in place people should not go fishing. And now, it appears that even your health Minister is confused about whether or not he can sit on a park bench and picnic with his family.

First Minister, how are the people of Wales supposed to have any sense of clarity in the Welsh Government's guidance when your own Ministers don't seem to understand the rules themselves? Perhaps the Welsh Government needs to rethink its communications strategy so that the people of Wales are receiving the right messages.

Prif Weinidog, rwy'n gofyn am gynllun codi cyfyngiadau symud oherwydd bod pobl Cymru angen yr eglurder hwnnw, ac ar hyn o bryd, mae digon o ddryswch ynglŷn â rheoliadau a chanllawiau Llywodraeth Cymru. Ac fe ddywedaf wrthych chi pam mae dryswch: oherwydd eich bod chi eich hun wedi dweud y gallai dau o bobl o wahanol aelwydydd gyfarfod mewn parc os ydyn nhw'n cadw at ganllawiau cadw pellter cymdeithasol, ac yna fe'n hysbysir nad dyma yw cyngor Llywodraeth Cymru ac nad yw aelodau gwahanol aelwydydd yn cael cyfarfod mewn parciau; mae eich Gweinidog addysg wedi dweud bod ysgolion yng Nghymru ar gau tan 1 Mehefin, tra bod eich Cwnsler Cyffredinol yn credu y byddan nhw'n bendant ar gau drwy gydol mis Mehefin; ac mae'r Aelod dros Ben-y-bont ar Ogwr wedi dweud ei bod hi'n iawn i bobl yng Nghymru ddechrau pysgota, ar sail ymateb honedig a gafodd gennych chi, ac eto, mewn ymateb i gwestiwn ysgrifenedig a gyflwynwyd gan fy nghyd-Aelod yr Aelod dros Orllewin Clwyd fe'i gwnaed yn benodol eglur gennych chi na ddylai pobl fynd i bysgota tra bod y cyfyngiadau'n weithredol. A nawr, mae'n ymddangos bod hyd yn oed eich Gweinidog iechyd wedi drysu ynghylch pa un a gaiff eistedd ar fainc mewn parc a chael picnic gyda'i deulu ai peidio.

Prif Weinidog, sut mae pobl Cymru i fod i gael unrhyw synnwyr o eglurder yng nghanllawiau Llywodraeth Cymru pan nad yw'n ymddangos bod eich Gweinidogion eich hun yn deall y rheolau eu hunain? Efallai fod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru ailfeddwl ei strategaeth gyfathrebu fel bod pobl Cymru yn cael y negeseuon cywir.

Well, Llywydd, I don't know who advised the leader of the opposition to use that as a line of questioning, but if I'd been the leader of the Conservative Party in Wales, I would certainly have told them to think again. Because, if I needed advice on clarity and how not to confuse the public, I certainly wouldn't be taking it from a party that did everything it could last week to make sure that people in Wales were not clear about how the law in Wales was to operate.

On all the points that the Member has mentioned, I think clarity was there. There's mischief making—people are very willing, I find, to try and pull a meaning out of words that isn't there. When I answered a question about people meeting, that's exactly what I said. I observe people not going out to meet other people—that is not allowed under our regulations—but people who are walking from their own front door down their own pavement and see somebody else who, by chance, is also walking on the same street, and they are able just to—. There's nothing prohibiting people who meet in that chance way from exchanging a few words with one another if they are at a social distance from one another. That is quite different to people purposefully planning to leave their homes to engage in such encounters. So, I'm simply reflecting the everyday realities of people here in Wales. 

As far as angling is allowed, it is allowed under our current regulations, the ones that were passed into law on Monday, but it must be done locally and people must observe social distancing. Here in Wales, we are encouraging people to stay home. That is the best way in which we can help one another to overcome this crisis. That's why we're all making the sacrifices that we are. But people are allowed now to leave their homes more than once a day for exercise, and if your way of taking exercise is to walk from your home to a river and to sit there, not near other people, and to go fishing, then that is allowed within the rules in Wales. But it must be local and it must be done in a way that observes social distancing.

And let me just finish by making that point once again. The question that people in Wales to ask themselves is: is my journey away from my own front door necessary? If it's necessary, then you're allowed to do it within the terms of our regulations. But the best advice to us all is to minimise the amount of contact that we have with other people because that way, the circulation of the virus can be suppressed and we can all go on providing to the safety of ourselves and to the safety of others.

Wel, Llywydd, nid wyf i'n gwybod pwy wnaeth gynghori arweinydd yr wrthblaid i ddefnyddio hynny fel pwnc cwestiynu, ond pe byddwn i wedi bod yn arweinydd y Blaid Geidwadol yng Nghymru, byddwn yn sicr wedi dweud wrthyn nhw am ailfeddwl. Oherwydd, pe byddai angen cyngor ar eglurder a sut i beidio â drysu'r cyhoedd arnaf i, yn sicr ni fyddwn i'n ei gymryd gan blaid a wnaeth bopeth a allai yr wythnos diwethaf i wneud yn siŵr nad oedd pobl yng Nghymru yn eglur ynghylch sut y byddai'r gyfraith yng Nghymru yn gweithredu.

O ran yr holl bwyntiau y mae'r Aelod wedi eu crybwyll, rwy'n credu bod eglurder yno. Ceir creu helynt—mae pobl yn barod iawn, rwy'n canfod, i geisio cymryd ystyr o eiriau nad yw yno. Pan atebais i gwestiwn am bobl yn cyfarfod, dyna'n union a ddywedais. Rwy'n gweld nad yw pobl yn mynd allan i gyfarfod â phobl eraill—ni chaniateir hynny o dan ein rheoliadau—ond mae pobl sy'n cerdded o'u drws ffrynt eu hunain i lawr eu palmant eu hunain ac yn gweld rhywun arall sydd, ar hap, hefyd yn cerdded ar yr un stryd, ac maen nhw'n gallu dim ond—. Does dim byd yn gwahardd pobl sy'n cyfarfod ar hap yn y modd hwnnw rhag cyfnewid ychydig eiriau â'i gilydd os ydyn nhw ar bellter cymdeithasol oddi wrth ei gilydd. Mae hynny'n hollol wahanol i bobl yn cynllunio'n bwrpasol i adael eu cartrefi i gymryd rhan mewn cyfarfyddiadau o'r fath. Felly, y cwbl rwyf i'n ei wneud yw adlewyrchu gwirioneddau beunyddiol pobl yma yng Nghymru.  

Cyn belled ag y caniateir pysgota, fe'i caniateir o dan ein rheoliadau presennol, y rhai a basiwyd i'r gyfraith ddydd Llun, ond mae'n rhaid ei wneud yn lleol ac mae'n rhaid i bobl gadw pellter cymdeithasol. Yma yng Nghymru, rydym ni'n annog pobl i aros gartref. Dyna'r ffordd orau y gallwn ni helpu ein gilydd i oresgyn yr argyfwng hwn. Dyna pam yr ydym ni i gyd yn gwneud yr aberth yr ydym ni'n ei wneud. Ond mae pobl yn cael gadael eu cartrefi fwy nag unwaith y dydd ar gyfer ymarfer corff erbyn hyn, ac os mai eich ffordd chi o ymarfer corff yw cerdded o'ch cartref i afon ac eistedd yno, nid yn agos at bobl eraill, ac i fynd i bysgota, yna caniateir hynny o dan y rheolau yng Nghymru. Ond mae'n rhaid iddo fod yn lleol ac mae'n rhaid gwneud hynny mewn ffordd sy'n cadw pellter cymdeithasol.

A gadewch i mi orffen drwy wneud y pwynt hwnnw unwaith eto. Y cwestiwn y dylai pobl yng Nghymru ofyn iddyn nhw eu hunain yw: a yw fy nhaith oddi wrth fy nrws ffrynt fy hun yn angenrheidiol? Os yw'n angenrheidiol, yna rydych chi'n cael gwneud hynny yn unol â thelerau ein rheoliadau. Ond y cyngor gorau i bob un ohonom ni yw sicrhau cyn lleied a phosibl o gyswllt â phobl eraill, oherwydd wrth wneud hynny, gellir atal cylchrediad y feirws a gall pob un ohonom ni fynd ati i sicrhau diogelwch ein hunain a diogelwch pobl eraill.

13:50

Arweinydd Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.

Plaid Cymru leader, Adam Price.

Diolch, Llywydd. Cyn troi at fy nghwestiwn, hoffwn wneud pwynt o drefn ar ddiwedd y datganiad yma, os wnewch chi ganiatáu hynny, ar y ffaith i'r Llywodraeth rannu ei strategaeth arbrofi ac olrhain cysylltiadau wyth munud union cyn dechrau'r sesiwn graffu yma, a heb friffio’r gwrthbleidiau o flaen llaw, fel yr addawyd i mi'r bore yma.

Thank you, Llywydd. Before turning to my question, I would like to make a point of order at the end of the statement, if you would allow that, on the fact that the Government shared its strategy on testing and contact tracing exactly eight minutes before the beginning of this scrutiny session without briefing the opposition parties beforehand, as was promised to me this morning.

Two weeks ago, First Minister, when asked by Channel 4's Andy Davies at the daily press conference, if the Welsh Government had gowns in its pandemic stockpile when coronavirus reached the UK, the health Minister confirmed that to be the case. Was that in fact correct?

Bythefnos yn ôl, Prif Weinidog, pan ofynnwyd iddo gan Andy Davies o Channel 4 yn y gynhadledd feunyddiol i'r wasg, a oedd gan Lywodraeth Cymru ynau yn ei stoc pandemig pan gyrhaeddodd coronafeirws y DU, cadarnhaodd y Gweinidog iechyd bod hynny'n wir. A oedd hynny'n gywir mewn gwirionedd?

Well, Llywydd, I don't—. The health Minister provided that answer; I'm sure he was drawing on the best information he had at the time. I do not have in front of me, nor could I reasonably be expected to have in front of me, the details of every item that was in a store on a particular day. If the Member had wanted to have that information, he could have submitted one of his many written questions to me and received it.

Wel, Llywydd, nid wyf i'n—. Rhoddodd y Gweinidog iechyd yr ateb hwnnw; rwy'n siŵr ei fod yn tynnu ar yr wybodaeth orau a oedd ganddo ar y pryd. Nid yw manylion pob eitem a oedd mewn storfa ar ddiwrnod penodol gen i o fy mlaen, ac ni fyddai'n rhesymol disgwyl i mi fod â nhw o fy mlaen. Os oedd yr Aelod eisiau cael y wybodaeth honno, gallai fod wedi cyflwyno un o'i gwestiynau ysgrifenedig niferus i mi a chael yr wybodaeth.

First Minister, you wrote to me last week in response to a letter I wrote to you, confirming that there were, in fact, contrary to what the health Minister claimed, no gowns in the pandemic stockpile between June 2016 and February 2020.

Now, in June last year, the new and emerging respiratory virus threats advisory group, the committee that advises the UK Government on the pandemic stockpile, specifically recommended that gowns, which had been one of the main problem areas for PPE, be added to it. Now, when I previously raised that report with you, you said that you would go away and look at it. Can you therefore confirm that someone within Welsh Government saw that recommendation, and can you say when that happened? Or did the UK Government fail to share with you this potentially life-saving information?

Prif Weinidog, ysgrifenasoch ataf yr wythnos diwethaf mewn ymateb i lythyr a ysgrifennais atoch, yn cadarnhau nad oedd, mewn gwirionedd, yn groes i'r hyn a honnodd y Gweinidog iechyd, unrhyw ynau yn y stoc pandemig rhwng Mehefin 2016 a Chwefror 2020.

Nawr, ym mis Mehefin y llynedd, argymhellodd y grŵp cynghori ar fygythiadau feirws anadlol newydd a rhai sy'n dod i'r amlwg, y pwyllgor sy'n cynghori Llywodraeth y DU ar y stoc pandemig, yn benodol y dylai gynau, a fu'n un o'r prif feysydd a oedd yn peri problemau o ran cyfarpar diogelu personol, yn cael eu hychwanegu ato. Nawr, pan godais yr adroddiad hwnnw gyda chi yn flaenorol, dywedasoch y byddech chi'n mynd i ffwrdd ac yn edrych arno. A allwch chi gadarnhau felly bod rhywun o fewn Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gweld yr argymhelliad hwnnw, ac a allwch chi ddweud pryd y digwyddodd hynny? Neu a wnaeth Llywodraeth y DU fethu â rhannu'r wybodaeth hon a allai fod wedi achub bywydau?

Well, Llywydd, I can't answer that sort of detailed question here this afternoon. I'm perfectly happy to answer that sort of detailed question, but it's not one that I think is capable of being answered in the circumstances we are in. I'll pursue the points the Member has made and reply to him.

On gowns, let's be clear: we have managed to deal with the pandemic in Wales without ever having to tell the NHS in Wales that there wasn't a supply of the gowns that were needed. As a result of contact by the Welsh NHS and by the Welsh Government, we have been able to bring half a billion—sorry, half a million—0.5 million gowns in through Cardiff Wales Airport, with which we have been able to help supply other parts of the United Kingdom in dealing with what is, indeed, a shortage item during the coronavirus crisis. But we've never not been able to supply those to the NHS in Wales, and as a result of the efforts we have made, we now have a supply in our stores that will see us through the weeks ahead while we continue to pursue other sources of supply, domestically and internationally.

Wel, Llywydd, ni allaf ateb y math hwnnw o gwestiwn manwl yn y fan yma y prynhawn yma. Rwy'n berffaith fodlon i ateb y math hwnnw o gwestiwn manwl, ond nid yw'n un yr wyf i'n credu y gellir ei ateb o dan yr amgylchiadau yr ydym ni ynddyn nhw ar hyn o bryd. Byddaf yn mynd ar drywydd y pwyntiau a wnaeth yr Aelod ac yn ei ateb.

O ran gynau, gadewch i ni fod yn eglur: rydym ni wedi llwyddo i ymdrin â'r pandemig yng Nghymru heb orfod dweud o gwbl wrth y GIG yng Nghymru nad oedd cyflenwad o'r gynau yr oedd eu hangen. O ganlyniad i gyswllt gan GIG Cymru a chan Lywodraeth Cymru, rydym ni wedi gallu dod â hanner biliwn—mae'n ddrwg gen i, hanner miliwn—0.5 miliwn o ynau drwy Faes Awyr Caerdydd, yr ydym ni wedi gallu helpu i gyflenwi rhannau eraill o'r Deyrnas Unedig â nhw i ymdrin â'r hyn sydd, yn wir, yn eitem brin yn ystod argyfwng y coronafeirws. Ond nid ydym ni erioed wedi methu â gallu cyflenwi'r rheini i'r GIG yng Nghymru, ac o ganlyniad i'r ymdrechion yr ydym ni wedi eu gwneud, mae gennym ni gyflenwad yn ein storfeydd bellach a fydd yn ddigonol ar gyfer yr wythnosau i ddod wrth i ni barhau i fynd ar drywydd ffynonellau cyflenwi eraill, yn ddomestig ac yn rhyngwladol.

Arweinydd Plaid Brexit, Mark Reckless.

Leader of the Brexit Party, Mark Reckless.

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, have you read Animal Farm? Why, when you cycle through Pontcanna to your allotment, did you think it okay for people to hang out with someone from outside their household—and you didn't say on their own pavement, but in the park? Do you not understand that, while prohibiting people from driving to exercise may be fine for Pontcanna, but it's not for many who live elsewhere? Have you thought what message it sends when your health Minister relaxes on a bench in the sun, with his family, eating a takeaway, when others doing that have been dealt with by the police?

Which Minister considered it so urgent to change the rules the next day that he evaded a prior vote of the Welsh Parliament? Rather than all being in it together at a time of national crisis, it seems that there are some who are more equal than others. Instead of working with the UK Government to co-ordinate a coherent strategy, you seem to take pride in fiddling with rules just to make Wales a bit different. How is it grounded in distinctive Welsh values to require a two-day gap between when garden centres can open in Wales and England?

More significantly, we see the property market fully reopen in England today, while in Wales, it remains in indefinite lockdown. If that means that we don't raise the taxes in Wales that they do in England, how do we raise the money for our NHS? Will you be asking the UK Government for a bail-out?

In England, the law requires Ministers to revoke restrictions as soon as they consider that they aren't necessary to control infection. In Wales, you've just removed that legal requirement. Instead, Ministers can keep restrictions for up to six months, purportedly, under your policy, if they have a high, positive equality impact and provide any opportunities for widening participation and a more inclusive society. First Minister, isn't it time that you were held to account by the underlying UK law that requires all restrictions to be reasonable and proportionate?

Diolch, Llywydd. Prif Weinidog, a ydych chi wedi darllen Animal Farm? Pam, pan fyddwch chi'n beicio drwy Bontcanna i'ch rhandir, oeddech chi'n meddwl ei bod hi'n iawn i bobl gymdeithasu â rhywun o'r tu allan i'w haelwyd—ac ni ddywedasoch ar eu palmant eu hunain, ond yn y parc? Onid ydych chi'n deall, er efallai fod gwahardd pobl rhag gyrru i ymarfer corff yn iawn i Bontcanna, ond nid ydyw i lawer sy'n byw mewn mannau eraill? A ydych chi wedi meddwl pa neges y mae'n ei hanfon pan fo'ch Gweinidog iechyd yn ymlacio ar fainc yn yr haul, gyda'i deulu, yn bwyta tecawê, pan fo'r heddlu wedi ymdrin ag eraill a oedd yn gwneud hynny?

Pa Weinidog oedd yn meddwl bod cymaint o frys i newid y rheolau y diwrnod wedyn fel ei fod wedi osgoi pleidlais ymlaen llaw yn Senedd Cymru? Yn hytrach na bod pawb yn ymdrechu gyda'i gilydd ar adeg o argyfwng cenedlaethol, mae'n ymddangos bod rhai sy'n fwy cyfartal nag eraill. Yn hytrach na gweithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU i gydgysylltu strategaeth gydlynol, mae'n ymddangos eich bod chi'n ymfalchïo mewn chwarae gyda rheolau dim ond i wneud Cymru ychydig yn wahanol. Sut mae wedi'i seilio ar werthoedd unigryw i Gymru i fynnu bwlch o ddeuddydd rhwng pryd y gall canolfannau garddio agor yng Nghymru a Lloegr?

Yn fwy arwyddocaol, rydym ni'n gweld y farchnad eiddo'n ailagor yn llawn yn Lloegr heddiw, ond yng Nghymru, mae'n dal i fod ar gau am gyfnod amhenodol. Os yw hynny'n golygu nad ydym ni'n codi'r trethi yng Nghymru y maen nhw'n ei wneud yn Lloegr, sut ydym ni'n mynd i godi'r arian ar gyfer ein GIG? A fyddwch chi'n gofyn i Lywodraeth y DU am gymorth?

Yn Lloegr, mae'r gyfraith yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i Weinidogion ddiddymu cyfyngiadau cyn gynted ag y maen nhw'n credu nad oes eu hangen nhw i reoli heintiau. Yng Nghymru, rydych chi newydd gael gwared ar y gofyniad cyfreithiol hwnnw. Yn hytrach, gall Gweinidogion gadw cyfyngiadau am hyd at chwe mis, yn honedig, o dan eich polisi, os ydyn nhw'n cael effaith uchel, gadarnhaol ar gydraddoldeb ac yn cynnig unrhyw gyfleoedd i ehangu cyfranogiad a chymdeithas fwy cynhwysol. Prif Weinidog, onid yw'n bryd i chi gael eich dwyn i gyfrif gan gyfraith sylfaenol y DU sy'n ei gwneud yn ofynnol i bob cyfyngiad fod yn rhesymol a chymesur?

13:55

Well, Llywydd, the Member is quite wrong in thinking that that law does not apply in Wales. It does apply in Wales; it continues to apply in Wales.

Wel, Llywydd, mae'r Aelod yn gwbl anghywir yn meddwl nad yw'r gyfraith honno'n berthnasol yng Nghymru. Mae hi yn berthnasol yng Nghymru; mae'n parhau i fod yn berthnasol yng Nghymru.

I know. Indeed, yes, it does—

Rwy'n gwybod. Yn wir, ydy, mae—

Well, I think you just said a moment ago—and I can do without being interrupted, actually. I think you said—

Wel, rwy'n credu eich bod chi newydd ddweud eiliad yn ôl—a byddai'n well gennyf i chi beidio â thorri ar fy nhraws, a dweud y gwir. Rwy'n credu eich bod chi wedi dweud—

—a moment ago that Welsh Ministers were no longer bound by the need to remove restrictions if they are found not to be proportionate to the need to deal with the crisis. Llywydd, that is not the case. Welsh Ministers are bound absolutely by that requirement and will continue to be so.

I didn't entirely follow the points that the Member made at the start of his many questions, and I think I've dealt with a number of them already. In relation to the point he made about moving in line with the United Kingdom, there was nothing at all stopping colleagues in England from deciding to allow access to garden centres on Monday of this week had they chosen to do so. We had already announced that our changes would begin from Monday. Had they wished to have a United Kingdom-wide approach to that, they could have done the same thing. It is possible—I know Mr Reckless struggles with this idea—for people in England to come in line with what is happening in Wales, not just the other way around.

As for the property market, we don't plan to do what has been announced in England. There are only so many measures, Llywydd, I believe that it is sensible for a Government to take if it does not risk the recirculation of the virus and a rise in the R value. The advice we had leading up to the changes we made were those three modest things and were sufficient to keep R suppressed in Wales while offering some further freedoms to Welsh citizens. Every time you add another issue to that repertoire, you increase the risk that R will rise again. We took the view that allowing people to walk around other people's houses in order to open the property market—that this was not the right point in the cycle to do that in Wales. That remains our view. We keep that, as well as everything else, under review, because we are bound, quite unlike the Member suggested, to remove restrictions when they are not proportionate to the nature of the crisis that we are facing.

—eiliad yn ôl nad oedd Gweinidogion Cymru bellach wedi'u rhwymo gan yr angen i ddileu cyfyngiadau os canfyddir nad ydyn nhw'n gymesur â'r angen i ymdrin â'r argyfwng. Llywydd, nid yw hynny'n wir. Mae Gweinidogion Cymru wedi eu rhwymo'n llwyr gan y gofyniad hwnnw a bydd hynny'n parhau i fod yn wir.

Nid oeddwn i'n deall yn llwyr y pwyntiau a wnaeth yr aelod ar ddechrau ei gwestiynau niferus, ac rwy'n credu fy mod i wedi ymdrin â nifer ohonyn nhw eisoes. O ran y pwynt a wnaeth am symud yn unol â'r Deyrnas Unedig, doedd dim byd o gwbl yn atal cydweithwyr yn Lloegr rhag penderfynu caniatáu mynediad i ganolfannau garddio ddydd Llun yr wythnos hon pe bydden nhw wedi dewis gwneud hynny. Roeddem ni eisoes wedi cyhoeddi y byddai ein newidiadau yn dechrau o ddydd Llun. Pe bydden nhw wedi dymuno cael dull o ymdrin â hynny ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig gyfan, gallen nhw fod wedi gwneud yr un peth. Mae'n bosibl—gwn fod Mr Reckless yn cael trafferth gyda'r syniad hwn—i bobl yn Lloegr gyd-fynd â'r hyn sy'n digwydd yng Nghymru, nid y ffordd arall yn unig.

O ran y farchnad eiddo, dydym ni ddim yn bwriadu gwneud yr hyn a gyhoeddwyd yn Lloegr. Dim ond nifer gyfyngedig o fesurau, Llywydd, yr wyf i'n credu sy'n ddoeth i Lywodraeth eu cymryd os nad yw'n peryglu ailgylchrediad y feirws a chynnydd i'r gwerth R. Y cyngor a gawsom yn arwain at y newidiadau a wnaed gennym oedd y tri pheth cymedrol hynny, ac roedden nhw'n ddigonol i gadw'r R i lawr yng Nghymru gan gynnig mwy o ryddid i ddinasyddion Cymru. Bob tro y byddwch chi'n ychwanegu pwnc arall i'r repertoire hwnnw, rydych chi'n cynyddu'r risg y bydd R yn codi eto. Cymerwyd y farn gennym ni bod caniatáu i bobl gerdded o gwmpas tai pobl eraill er mwyn agor y farchnad eiddo—nad hwn oedd y pwynt cywir yn y cylch i wneud hynny yng Nghymru. Dyna yw ein barn ni o hyd. Rydym ni'n adolygu hynny, yn ogystal â phopeth arall, yn barhaus gan ein bod ni wedi'n rhwymo, yn dra gwahanol i'r hyn a awgrymodd yr Aelod, i godi cyfyngiadau pan nad ydyn nhw'n gymesur â natur yr argyfwng yr ydym ni'n ei wynebu.

First Minister, my constituents have warmly welcomed the decision you took last week to extend the lockdown and to keep the 'Stay Home' message in Wales, and I also warmly welcome the action you took. My questions are around the perimeter of those decisions. Some of my constituents are very concerned about the decision to open garden centres when those items can commonly be bought in the supermarket, for example.

I also wanted to ask what impact assessments have been undertaken on the decisions that you are taking around the easing of the lockdown. In particular, I'm concerned about the announcement yesterday that golf clubs are to reopen, and I think it's hard to understand that at a time when children are facing so many restrictions. We know too that social isolation is having a massive impact on people's mental health, particularly the most vulnerable and disadvantaged, who can't access things like Skype. So, my question is: what children's rights impact assessments have been undertaken on these decisions that you are taking, and also what wider equality impact assessments are being taken? Diolch yn fawr.

Prif Weinidog, mae fy etholwyr wedi croesawu'n gynnes y penderfyniad a wnaethoch yr wythnos diwethaf i ymestyn y cyfyngiadau symud ac i gadw'r neges 'Aros Gartref' yng Nghymru, ac rwyf innau hefyd yn croesawu'n gynnes y camau a gymerasoch. Mae fy nghwestiynau'n ymwneud â therfynau’r penderfyniadau hynny. Mae rhai o'm hetholwyr yn bryderus iawn am y penderfyniad i agor canolfannau garddio pan ellir prynu'r eitemau hynny'n gyffredin yn yr archfarchnad, er enghraifft.

Roeddwn i hefyd eisiau gofyn pa asesiadau effaith a gynhaliwyd ar y penderfyniadau yr ydych chi'n eu gwneud ynglŷn â llacio'r cyfyngiadau symud. Yn arbennig, rwy'n pryderu am y cyhoeddiad ddoe y bydd clybiau golff yn ailagor, ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n anodd deall hynny ar adeg pan fo plant yn wynebu cymaint o gyfyngiadau. Rydym ni hefyd yn gwybod bod ynysu cymdeithasol yn cael effaith enfawr ar iechyd meddwl pobl, yn enwedig y rhai mwyaf agored i niwed a difreintiedig, nad ydyn nhw'n gallu cael gafael ar bethau fel Skype. Felly, fy nghwestiwn i yw: pa asesiadau o'r effaith ar hawliau plant a gynhaliwyd ar y penderfyniadau hyn yr ydych chi'n eu gwneud, a hefyd pa asesiadau effaith ar gydraddoldeb ehangach sy'n cael eu cynnal? Diolch yn fawr.

14:00

Llywydd, I thank Lynne Neagle for those questions. I think she's right—her experience in Torfaen I think is mirrored across Wales. There has been support for the Welsh Government's position in only being willing to move out of lockdown in the most careful and cautious way.

I think the decision on garden centres actually has been widely welcomed as well. Garden centres operate, by and large, in the open air. We know that the circulation of the virus is much less virulent in open-air circumstances, and, where garden centres are able to open and open safely—because they have to be able to do it in that way too—then the advice we had was that we should allow that to happen and that there are other benefits to well-being and mental health from people being able to use those facilities and then to use the products of garden centres in their own homes. And each of the measures, Llywydd—each of the measures—that we have considered has been evaluated against the tests that we set out in our framework document, published over two weeks ago, which showed how we would assess the case for and the case against any specific moves of the sort that we announced on Monday.

I think the point that Lynne Neagle makes about social isolation and children is a very important one. The lockdown doesn't come without its costs. We're doing it because the rewards are greater, because it does save lives in the here and now, and we've seen how that loss of life has such an unequal impact on different communities and different parts of the community. So, it's absolutely right that we do it, but it's also right, in the way that Lynne Neagle has suggested, that we don't lose sight of the impact that that has on people's lives and on children's lives in particular. It's why my colleague Kirsty Williams announced just over a week ago a fund to assist those young people who don't have access to the sorts of facilities that Lynne mentioned, so that they can at least take advantage of the sorts of electronic means of communication for education purposes, but also, as we do, to keep in touch with family and friends remotely, as we must. The Welsh Government will continue to keep a very close eye on the impact of these measures on children and Lynne, I know, will be aware that just this week we set out information about how we are directly gathering the views of children in Wales about what it has been like to be a child during the coronavirus crisis, the impact that it has on them, and what we as a Welsh Government and as a wider Welsh society can do to assist them as we begin to come out of the crisis itself.

Llywydd, hoffwn ddiolch i Lynne Neagle am y cwestiynau yna. Rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n iawn—mae ei phrofiad yn Nhorfaen yn cael ei adlewyrchu ledled Cymru. Cafwyd cefnogaeth i safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru o ran bod yn barod i symud allan o gyfyngiadau symud yn y modd mwyaf gofalus a gwyliadwrus.

Rwy'n credu bod y penderfyniad ar ganolfannau garddio mewn gwirionedd wedi cael ei groesawu'n eang hefyd. Mae canolfannau garddio yn gweithredu, ar y cyfan, yn yr awyr agored. Rydym ni'n gwybod bod cylchrediad y feirws yn llawer llai ffyrnig mewn amgylchiadau awyr agored, a, lle mae canolfannau garddio'n gallu agor ac agor yn ddiogel—oherwydd bod yn rhaid iddyn nhw allu ei wneud yn y ffordd honno hefyd—yna'r cyngor a gawsom oedd y dylem ni ganiatáu i hynny ddigwydd a bod manteision eraill i lesiant ac iechyd meddwl o ganlyniad i'r ffaith fod pobl yn gallu defnyddio'r cyfleusterau hynny ac yna defnyddio cynhyrchion canolfannau garddio yn eu cartrefi eu hunain. A gwerthuswyd pob un o'r mesurau, Llywydd—pob un o'r mesurau—yr ydym ni wedi eu hystyried yn erbyn y profion a nodwyd gennym ni yn ein dogfen fframwaith, a gyhoeddwyd dros bythefnos yn ôl, a ddangosodd sut y byddem ni'n asesu'r ddadl o blaid ac yn erbyn unrhyw gamau penodol o'r math a gyhoeddwyd gennym ni ddydd Llun.

Rwy'n credu bod y pwynt y mae Lynne Neagle yn ei wneud am ynysu cymdeithasol a phlant yn un pwysig iawn. Nid yw'r cyfyngiadau symud yn dod heb eu costau. Rydym ni'n gwneud hyn oherwydd bod y gwobrau'n fwy, oherwydd ei fod yn achub bywydau yn y presennol, ac rydym ni wedi gweld sut y mae'r golled bywyd honno'n cael effaith mor anghyfartal ar wahanol gymunedau a gwahanol rannau o'r gymuned. Felly, mae'n gwbl briodol ein bod ni'n ei wneud, ond mae hefyd yn briodol, yn y ffordd y mae Lynne Neagle wedi awgrymu, nad ydym ni'n colli golwg ar yr effaith y mae hynny'n ei chael ar fywydau pobl ac ar fywydau plant yn arbennig. Dyna pam y cyhoeddodd fy nghyd-Weinidog Kirsty Williams ychydig dros wythnos yn ôl, gronfa i gynorthwyo'r bobl ifanc hynny nad ydyn nhw'n gallu cael gafael ar y mathau o gyfleusterau y soniodd Lynne amdanyn nhw, fel y gallan nhw o leiaf fanteisio ar y mathau o ddulliau cyfathrebu electronig at ddibenion addysg, ond hefyd, fel yr ydym ni'n ei wneud, i gadw mewn cysylltiad â theulu a chyfeillion o bell, fel y mae'n rhaid i ni ei wneud. Bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i gadw llygad barcud ar effaith y mesurau hyn ar blant a gwn y bydd Lynne yn ymwybodol y cyhoeddwyd gwybodaeth gennym dim ond yr wythnos hon am y modd yr ydym ni'n casglu safbwyntiau plant yng Nghymru yn uniongyrchol ar sut brofiad fu bod yn blentyn yn ystod argyfwng y coronafeirws, yr effaith y mae wedi ei chael arnyn nhw, a'r hyn y gallwn ni fel Llywodraeth Cymru ac fel cymdeithas ehangach yng Nghymru ei wneud i'w cynorthwyo nhw wrth i ni ddechrau dod allan o'r argyfwng ei hun.

First Minister, the purpose of leaving home is to exercise. Going for a walk and then having a picnic or spending a prolonged period on a park bench, for example, is not considered to be exercise, and is not intended to be a reasonable excuse. That was your guidance that was in force last Saturday. If an individual purchased food, ate it on a public bench, they would clearly be breaking the rules. Should they apologise?

Prif Weinidog, diben gadael y cartref yw i ymarfer corff. Nid ystyrir bod mynd am dro ac yna cael picnic neu dreulio cyfnod hir ar fainc parc, er enghraifft, yn ymarfer corff, ac ni ystyrir ei fod yn esgus rhesymol. Dyna oedd eich canllawiau a oedd yn weithredol ddydd Sadwrn diwethaf. Pe byddai unigolyn yn prynu bwyd, yn ei fwyta ar fainc gyhoeddus, byddai'n amlwg yn torri'r rheolau. A ddylai ymddiheuro?

Llywydd, I'm not going to get drawn into this sort of personality-bashing approach to the virus. [Interruption.] I can hear—. I heard perfectly well what you asked me, thank you very much, and I'm saying to you that I'm not going to get drawn into that sort of question, which is simply designed to attack an individual out with their family, entitled, I would say, to some privacy in the way that they were going about things, and who will speak for himself. 

Llywydd, nid wyf i'n mynd i gael fy nhynnu i mewn i'r math hwn o ddull lladd ar bersonoliaeth o ymdrin â'r feirws. [Torri ar draws.] Gallaf glywed—. Clywais yn iawn yr hyn a ofynasoch i mi, diolch yn fawr iawn, ac rwy'n dweud wrthych chi nad wyf i'n mynd i gael fy nhynnu i mewn i'r math hwnnw o gwestiwn, sydd wedi'i gynllunio'n syml i ymosod ar unigolyn a oedd allan gyda'i deulu, sydd â'r hawl, byddwn i'n dweud, i rywfaint o breifatrwydd yn y ffordd yr oedd yn gwneud pethau, ac a fydd yn siarad drosto'i hun.

14:05

Mae hi'n dair wythnos ers i feddygon teulu ar draws Cymru erfyn arnoch chi i wahardd y defnydd o ail gartrefi ac i dynhau pwerau gorfodi er mwyn amddiffyn iechyd y cyhoedd, ond dydych chi ddim wedi gweithredu hyd yma. Does bosib, erbyn hyn, fod angen gweithredu, a ninnau ar drothwy'r Sulgwyn ac yn sgil y newidiadau i'r rheolau a'r pwyslais yn Lloegr. Felly hoffwn i ofyn pa fesurau pellach y byddwch chi'n eu rhoi ar waith i sicrhau bod rheoliadau Cymru yn cael eu parchu. A hoffwn i wybod hefyd beth ydy'ch penderfyniad yn sgil y trafodaethau rydych chi'n eu cael efo'r heddlu a'r awdurdodau lleol—gwnaethoch chi sôn am hynny y tro diwethaf i mi bwyso arnoch chi am orfodaeth lymach. A ydych chi yn cytuno efo'r pedwar llu heddlu fod angen cynyddu'r dirwyon sy'n cael eu gosod am deithio diangen?

It's three weeks since GPs across Wales urged you to prohibit the use of second homes and to tighten up enforcement rules in order to safeguard public health, but you have not acted to date. Surely by this point we do need action, given that we are approaching the Whitsun holiday and in light of the change in rules and emphasis in England. So, I would like to ask you what further measures you will put in place in order to ensure that the Welsh regulations are respected. I would also like to know what your decision is in light of the discussions that you are having with the police forces and local authorities—and you mentioned that the last time I urged you for stricter enforcement. Do you agree with the four police forces that we do need to increase the fines imposed for travelling unnecessarily?

Wel, diolch i Siân Gwenllian am y cwestiynau ac am fynd ar ôl y pwnc mae hi wedi ei godi unwaith eto y prynhawn yma. Wrth gwrs, rŷn ni'n cymryd beth mae pobl leol yn ei ddweud wrthym ni o ddifrif. Dyna pam roedden ni wedi cael trafodaethau unwaith eto gyda'r awdurdodau lleol a gyda'r heddlu. Fel esboniais i y tro diwethaf, mae nifer o bethau pwysig i'w cymryd i mewn i unrhyw benderfyniad—mae hawliau dynol gyda phobl ac mae'n rhaid inni feddwl am hynny. Y dystiolaeth—mae'n rhaid inni gael y dystiolaeth hefyd o faint o bobl sydd wedi—[Torri ar draws.] Wel, mae'n rhaid inni gael y dystiolaeth; mae'n rhaid inni wybod nifer y bobl sydd wedi dod i Gymru ac sydd yn eu hail gartrefi ar hyn o bryd. Fel esboniais i yn yr ateb i Mark Reckless, rŷn ni'n dal i fod, yng Nghymru, dan y gyfraith sy'n dweud, unrhyw beth rŷn ni'n ei wneud, mae'n rhaid i hwnna fod yn proportionate, a thrwy'r sgyrsiau gyda'r awdurdodau lleol, y casgliad i fi oedd doeddwn i ddim yn ddigon siŵr bod y broblem yn un lle rŷn ni'n dweud wrth bobl, sy'n aros yn eu tai nhw, fod yn rhaid iddyn nhw fynd adref. Nawr, wrth gwrs dŷn ni ddim eisiau i bobl wneud pethau fel yna; rŷn ni'n dweud bob tro wrth bobl i beidio â gwneud hynny.

Yn y sefyllfa nawr, lle mae pobl yn Lloegr yn gallu mynd yn y car i unrhyw le maen nhw ei eisiau yn Lloegr, mae hynny wedi creu mater newydd inni, ac rŷn ni wedi bod yn trefnu hynny gyda'r heddlu yr wythnos yma, ac wrth gwrs rwy'n fodlon siarad â nhw am a yw'r pwerau gyda nhw, a yw'r gosb sydd gyda nhw, o ran pobl sydd ddim yn gwneud beth sy'n angenrheidiol iddyn nhw—os oes rhaid inni wneud mwy. Rŷn ni'n defnyddio lot o bethau ar hyn o bryd. Rŷn ni'n defnyddio'r arwyddion sydd gyda ni ar yr M4 ac yn y gogledd i roi'r neges i bobl sy'n teithio i mewn i Gymru i beidio â gwneud hynny. Rŷn ni'n trio cael pethau yn y papurau lleol yn Lloegr i esbonio i bobl pam rŷn ni'n gwneud beth rŷn ni'n ei wneud yma yng Nghymru. So, rŷn ni'n trio gwneud popeth gallwn ni feddwl i'w wneud ac rŷn ni'n dal i sgwrsio gyda'r heddlu, gyda'r awdurdodau lleol, ac, os yw'r sefyllfa yn newid ac mae'r achos yn cryfhau i wneud pethau eraill, rŷn ni'n hollol agored i wneud hynny. 

Well, I thank Siân Gwenllian for those questions and for pursuing this issue once again this afternoon. Of course, we do take the comments of local people seriously, and that's why we did have those further discussions with the local authorities and the police forces. And, as I explained the last time, there are a number of important things to take into account in taking any decision—human rights do apply and we must take that into account. And we must have evidence in terms of how many people—[Interruption.] Well, we do have to have that evidence; we must know how many people have travelled to Wales and are using second homes at the moment. As I explained in my response to Mark Reckless, we in Wales do still respect the law that says that anything we do has to be proportionate, and, through our conversations with local authorities, my conclusion was that we couldn't be sufficiently convinced that the problem is one where we tell people who are staying in their homes that they would have to return to their primary accommodation. Of course, we don't want people to travel; we do tell people time and time again not to do it.

In the current situation, where people in England are able to travel by car anywhere they want in England, well, that has created a new issue for us, and we have been making arrangements for that with the police forces this week, and, of course, I am happy to speak to them about whether the powers that they have and the penalties that they can impose on people who fail to respect the regulations—whether they feel that we need to do more. We're doing a number of things at the moment; we're using signage on the M4 and in north Wales to convey that message to people who are travelling into Wales that they shouldn't do so unnecessarily. We're trying to get things in the press in England to explain to people why we're doing what we're doing here in Wales. So, we are seeking to do everything we can and we are still having conversations with the local authorities and the police forces, and, if the situation changes and the case is strengthened for taking further steps, then we are entirely open to doing so.

First Minister, during your press conference on Monday, and again in your statement today, you've touched upon some of the important factors that helped to determine your decision making in Wales, including the health inequalities in our population. Now I know that some people see an opportunity for change in our current circumstances, so, for example, delivering on active travel plans or more gardening to produce your own fruit and vegetables, and I wouldn't disagree with any of that, but I believe there's a real danger that without ongoing action by both the UK and Welsh Governments there's a further and a real risk of this virus creating greater health inequalities, caused by ever more deeply embedded poverty and debt. So, can I ask you, First Minister, if these concerns form part of the Government's thinking and planning about the future, and what do you think will be the first post-COVID steps needed to start addressing some of these inequalities? 

Prif Weinidog, yn ystod eich cynhadledd i'r wasg ddydd Llun, ac eto yn eich datganiad heddiw, rydych chi wedi crybwyll rhai o'r ffactorau pwysig a helpodd i benderfynu eich proses o wneud penderfyniadau yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys yr anghydraddoldebau iechyd yn ein poblogaeth. Nawr rwy'n gwybod bod rhai pobl yn gweld cyfle i newid yn ein hamgylchiadau presennol, felly, er enghraifft, cyflawni cynlluniau teithio llesol neu fwy o arddio i gynhyrchu eich ffrwythau a'ch llysiau eich hunan, ac ni fyddwn i'n anghytuno â dim o hynny, ond rwy'n credu bod perygl gwirioneddol y bydd y feirws hwn yn creu mwy o anghydraddoldebau iechyd, wedi eu hachosi gan dlodi a dyled sydd wedi ymwreiddio'n ddyfnach fyth, heb gamau parhaus gan Lywodraethau Cymru a'r DU. Felly, a gaf i ofyn i chi, Prif Weinidog, a yw'r pryderon hyn yn rhan o feddylfryd a gwaith cynllunio'r Llywodraeth ynglŷn â'r dyfodol, a beth ydych chi'n ei gredu fydd y camau ôl-COVID cyntaf y bydd eu hangen i ddechrau mynd i'r afael â rhai o'r anghydraddoldebau hyn?

14:10

Well, Llywydd, I entirely agree with Dawn Bowden. All the emerging evidence is that this is a virus that attacks those people in our society who are most vulnerable, and poverty is an underlying vulnerability because poor people tend to live more closely by one another, and the virus circulates where people are in more densely-populated areas. If you're poor, you're more likely to have underlying health conditions, and it's a virus that attacks people who have underlying health conditions. And you just don't have the resources that other people are lucky enough to be able to draw on to protect yourself against the crisis that we face. 

So, Dawn Bowden is absolutely right to point to the way in which underlying health inequalities are compounded by the virus. And when we come out of all of this, I just want to echo something that the former First Minister said to me in the session last week: we cannot go back simply to the way things were before, in which we overly value the contribution of some people in our society that has been of no practical use to us in this crisis, and we undervalue the contribution of other people, who are often the least well paid and the least well resourced. 

So, it's incumbent on us in the Welsh Government, certainly. It's why we've put, as you know, for example, £11 million more into our discretionary assistance fund to get help directly to people— 11,000 payments made already directly for COVID-related purposes from the discretionary assistance fund; more than £670,000 paid to the poorest families in Wales. And the UK Government will need to match that too. It's very disturbing, isn't it, to hear reports in the newspapers today of the UK Government planning to deal with the consequences of coronavirus by a pay freeze amongst public sector workers—those very workers that we have relied upon to get us through this crisis. That will not be the way to respond and, if we did it that way, then all the inequalities that Dawn has pointed to will be exacerbated rather than eroded, as we are determined to try to do in Wales. 

Wel, Llywydd, rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â Dawn Bowden. Yr holl dystiolaeth sy'n dod i'r amlwg yw bod hwn yn feirws sy'n ymosod ar y bobl hynny yn ein cymdeithas sydd fwyaf agored i niwed, ac mae tlodi yn rhywbeth sylfaenol sy'n gwneud pobl yn agored i niwed gan fod pobl dlawd yn tueddu i fyw'n agosach at ei gilydd, ac mae'r feirws yn cylchredeg lle mae pobl mewn ardaloedd mwy poblog. Os ydych chi'n dlawd, rydych chi'n fwy tebygol o fod â chyflyrau iechyd isorweddol, ac mae'n feirws sy'n ymosod ar bobl sydd â chyflyrau iechyd isorweddol. Ac nid oes gennych chi'r adnoddau y mae pobl eraill yn ddigon lwcus i allu manteisio arnyn nhw i amddiffyn eich hun rhag yr argyfwng yr ydym yn ei wynebu.  

Felly, mae Dawn Bowden yn llygad ei lle i dynnu sylw at y ffordd y mae'r feirws yn dwysáu anghydraddoldebau iechyd sylfaenol. A phan ddown i allan o hyn i gyd, hoffwn adleisio rhywbeth a ddywedodd y cyn Brif Weinidog wrthyf i yn y sesiwn yr wythnos diwethaf: ni allwn ni ddychwelyd yn syml i'r ffordd yr oedd pethau o'r blaen, lle'r ydym ni'n gwerthfawrogi'n ormodol cyfraniad rhai pobl yn ein cymdeithas nad yw wedi bod o unrhyw ddefnydd ymarferol i ni yn yr argyfwng hwn, ac yn tanbrisio cyfraniad pobl eraill, sef y rhai â'r cyflogau lleiaf yn aml a'r rhai â'r lleiaf o adnoddau.

Felly, mae'n ddyletswydd arnom ni yn Llywodraeth Cymru, yn sicr. Dyna pam yr ydym ni wedi rhoi, fel y gwyddoch, er enghraifft, £11 miliwn yn fwy i mewn i'n cronfa cymorth dewisol i gael cymorth i bobl yn uniongyrchol—11,000 o daliadau a wnaed eisoes yn uniongyrchol at ddibenion yn gysylltiedig â COVID o'r gronfa cymorth dewisol; talwyd mwy na £670,000 i'r teuluoedd tlotaf yng Nghymru. A bydd angen i Lywodraeth y DU ddarparu arian sy'n cyfateb i hynny hefyd. Mae'n peri pryder mawr, onid yw, clywed adroddiadau yn y papurau newydd heddiw ynghylch y ffaith fod Llywodraeth y DU yn bwriadu ymdrin â chanlyniadau coronafeirws drwy rewi cyflogau ymhlith gweithwyr y sector cyhoeddus—yr union weithwyr hynny yr ydym ni wedi dibynnu arnyn nhw i'n harwain ni drwy'r argyfwng hwn. Nid dyna'r ffordd i ymateb a, phe byddem ni'n gwneud pethau yn y modd hwnnw, yna bydd yr holl anghydraddoldebau y mae Dawn wedi cyfeirio atyn nhw yn cael eu gwaethygu yn hytrach na'u herydu, fel yr ydym ni'n benderfynol o geisio ei wneud yng Nghymru.

First Minister, in your statement you mentioned people who don't feel particularly safe at home all the time, and my question is prompted by my worries about them and an increasing number of constituents contacting me about their mental health, and questions arising from Welsh Government guidance about staying at home. Just to be clear, this isn't about differences between England and Wales but Welsh Government guidance itself, reflected, actually, in your confusing comments made a few days ago.

When you publish it on Friday, will the scientific evidence on which you rely explicitly highlight the evidence that supports that a gathering of two people from different households is safe, or that it's safe for two people from different households to come across each in a library, but not for two people from different households, where there have been no symptoms for weeks, going for a socially-distanced walk together deliberately, as opposed to the chance meeting you referred to earlier?

And will it also highlight the evidence that says that it's safe to drive and encounter anyone at a garden centre, subject to the social distancing, but not safe to drive—you can walk or cycle, but not drive—to your nearest lake or beach to go fishing by yourself? Or can you confirm that 'local' does in fact mean 'nearest' in those circumstances? 

Prif Weinidog, soniasoch yn eich datganiad am bobl nad ydyn nhw'n teimlo'n arbennig o ddiogel gartref drwy'r amser, ac mae fy nghwestiwn i'n cael ei gymell gan fy mhryderon amdanyn nhw a nifer gynyddol o etholwyr sy'n cysylltu â mi ynglŷn â'u hiechyd meddwl, a chwestiynau sy'n codi o ganllawiau Llywodraeth Cymru ynghylch aros gartref. Dim ond i fod yn eglur, nid yw hyn yn ymwneud â gwahaniaethau rhwng Cymru a Lloegr ond canllawiau Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun, a adlewyrchwyd, a dweud y gwir, yn eich sylwadau dryslyd a wnaed ychydig ddyddiau yn ôl.

Pan fyddwch chi'n ei chyhoeddi ddydd Gwener, a fydd y dystiolaeth wyddonol yr ydych chi'n dibynnu arni'n llwyr yn tynnu sylw penodol at y dystiolaeth sy'n ategu'r ffaith bod cynulliad o ddau o bobl o wahanol aelwydydd yn ddiogel, neu ei bod yn ddiogel i ddau o bobl o wahanol aelwydydd ddigwydd gweld ei gilydd mewn llyfrgell, ond nid i ddau o bobl o wahanol aelwydydd, lle na fu unrhyw symptomau ers wythnosau, fynd am dro gyda'i gilydd yn fwriadol gan gadw pellter cymdeithasol, yn hytrach na'r cyfarfod ar hap y cyfeiriasoch ato'n gynharach?

Ac a fydd hefyd yn tynnu sylw at y dystiolaeth sy'n dweud ei bod hi'n ddiogel i yrru a chyfarfod gydag unrhyw un mewn canolfan arddio, yn amodol ar gadw pellter cymdeithasol, ond nad yw'n ddiogel gyrru—cewch gerdded neu feicio, ond nid gyrru—i'ch llyn neu'ch traeth agosaf i fynd i bysgota ar eich pen eich hun? Neu a allwch chi gadarnhau mai ystyr 'lleol' mewn gwirionedd yw 'agosaf' o dan yr amgylchiadau hynny?

Well, Llywydd, 'local' means the common and everyday understanding of what 'local' is. Our advice to people in Wales is stay home: stay home, protect the NHS and save lives. That's been our message for the last six weeks and it's our message now. So, if you are leaving your home for exercise or for other purposes, stay local, because by staying local you stay safe. It's not an invitation to jump in your car and drive somewhere else to do things that you could do just as easily on foot and from home. 

So, some things are not done as easily in that way, and you may have to be in your car if you have to be, but it's only when you have to be, not because it's something that you would find convenient or entertaining to do. The more you travel, the more we go around, the more the virus will spread. And all the efforts we have made have been designed to stop that from happening, and we've succeeded in doing that. So, what we don't want to do is to put that at risk by encouraging people to do things that add to the risk levels.

We made a very carefully calibrated decision to do three things that we thought we could make available to people in Wales while still staying below the level at which the R value will rise and the virus will start to circulate again. That's the lens that people should be using to think about any of these decisions. The more we do outside the home, and particularly when we don't do it locally, the more risks we will be causing to one another, and the Welsh Government's advice and the scientific advice that we are drawing on is all clear about that. It needn't confuse anybody. And it's not helpful, I think, to try forever to be finding ways in which you can pull sentences in one direction or another in order to cause a bit of a confusion. The position in Wales is simple: stay at home, stay local and stay safe.

Wel, Llywydd, mae 'lleol' yn golygu'r ddealltwriaeth gyffredin a phob dydd o'r hyn yw 'lleol'. Ein cyngor ni i bobl yng Nghymru yw aros gartref: aros gartref, diogelu'r GIG ac achub bywydau. Dyna fu ein neges dros y chwe wythnos diwethaf a dyna yw ein neges ni nawr. Felly, os ydych chi'n gadael eich cartref i ymarfer corff neu at ddibenion eraill, arhoswch yn lleol, oherwydd drwy aros yn lleol rydych chi'n cadw'n ddiogel. Nid yw'n wahoddiad i neidio i'ch car a gyrru i rywle arall i wneud pethau y gallech chi eu gwneud yr un mor hawdd ar droed ac o gartref.  

Felly, nid yw rhai pethau'n cael eu gwneud mor hawdd yn y ffordd honno, ac efallai y bydd yn rhaid i chi fod yn eich car os oes yn rhaid i chi fod, ond dim ond pan fydd yn rhaid i chi fod, nid oherwydd ei fod yn rhywbeth a fyddai'n gyfleus i chi neu'n rywbeth difyr i'w wneud. Po fwyaf y byddwch chi'n teithio, po fwyaf y byddwn ni'n mynd o gwmpas, y mwyaf y bydd y feirws yn lledaenu. A chynlluniwyd yr holl ymdrechion a wnaed gennym i atal hynny rhag digwydd, ac rydym ni wedi llwyddo i wneud hynny. Felly, yr hyn nad ydym ni eisiau ei wneud yw peryglu hynny drwy annog pobl i wneud pethau sy'n ychwanegu at y lefelau risg.

Fe wnaethom benderfyniad wedi'i bwyso a'i fesur yn ofalus i wneud tri pheth yr oeddem ni'n meddwl y gallem ni eu rhoi ar gael i bobl yng Nghymru gan barhau i aros islaw'r lefel y bydd y gwerth R yn codi ac y bydd y feirws yn dechrau cylchredeg eto. Dyna'r lens y dylai pobl fod yn ei defnyddio i feddwl am unrhyw un o'r penderfyniadau hyn. Po fwyaf y byddwn ni'n ei wneud y tu allan i'r cartref, ac yn enwedig pan na fyddwn ni'n ei wneud yn lleol, y mwyaf fydd y risgiau y byddwn ni'n eu hachosi i'n gilydd, ac mae cyngor Llywodraeth Cymru a'r cyngor gwyddonol yr ydym ni'n ei ddefnyddio i gyd yn eglur ynghylch hynny. Does dim rhaid iddo ddrysu neb. Ac nid yw'n ddefnyddiol, yn fy marn i, i geisio byth a beunydd dod o hyd i ffyrdd y gallwch chi dynnu brawddegau i un cyfeiriad neu'r llall er mwyn achosi ychydig o ddryswch. Mae'r sefyllfa yng Nghymru yn syml: arhoswch gartref, arhoswch yn lleol a chadwch yn ddiogel.

14:15

Carers have been woefully underpaid and underappreciated for a long time, and your policy to give £500 to carers is welcome, but it doesn't go far enough. All care home workers, including cooks and cleaners, should be entitled to that payment because they are at risk as well. Unpaid carers deserve to be recognised, in my view, too. So, will you commit to recognising everyone who's a carer, or who works in a care home setting, with this one-off payment? And, as this one-off payment doesn't address the ongoing low pay of carers, will you agree to do the same as the SNP Government has done in Scotland, and give all social care staff an immediate 3.3 per cent pay increase?

Mae gofalwyr wedi cael eu talu a'u gwerthfawrogi'n druenus o annigonol ers amser maith, ac mae eich polisi i roi £500 i ofalwyr i'w groesawu, ond nid yw'n mynd yn ddigon pell. Dylai fod gan bob gweithiwr cartref gofal, gan gynnwys cogyddion a glanhawyr, hawl i gael y taliad hwnnw gan eu bod hwythau mewn perygl hefyd. Mae gofalwyr di-dâl yn haeddu cael eu cydnabod hefyd, yn fy marn i. Felly, a wnewch chi ymrwymo i gydnabod pawb sy'n ofalwr, neu sy'n gweithio mewn cartref gofal, gyda'r taliad untro hwn? A chan nad yw'r taliad untro hwn yn mynd i'r afael â chyflog isel parhaus gofalwyr, a wnewch chi gytuno i wneud yr un fath ag y gwnaeth Llywodraeth yr SNP yn yr Alban, a rhoi codiad cyflog o 3.3 y cant ar unwaith i'r holl staff gofal cymdeithasol?

Well, I thank Leanne Wood for that, and I want to join her in recognising the work that carers, informal carers, and the people who do such important jobs in the care sector do. Our decision to offer £500 to all those people who provide direct personal care in domiciliary and residential settings was one that balanced our wish to provide that recognition against the current financial restrictions that we face. So, what I am very happy to say is that we go on looking at that. If there's an opportunity to do more, we would really like to do more. It is not about devaluing the contribution of other people who don't provide direct personal care but provide other important services in the sector, but if you're devising a scheme, you have to have some criteria that the scheme can operate within, and you have to be able to deliver it with the budget that the Welsh Government has available. It's going to cost £32 million to provide for the 64,000 people who are covered by the scheme as announced, and we will continue to keep that under very careful review and see whether it is possible to do more in the future. 

We've chosen to do it that way rather than in the way that the Scottish Government has done, and our £500, I think, has some advantages, in that it is a progressive measure. We're offering it to all care workers who provide personal care, however many hours they are working. So, it makes the biggest difference to those who have the least. And, in thinking of the question that Dawn Bowden was asking about inequality and our ability to try and make some impact on that, our scheme is designed with some deliberate aspects of it in order to make sure that the help is felt the most by those whose need for help is greatest.

Wel, diolchaf i Leanne Wood am hynna, a hoffwn ymuno â hi i gydnabod y gwaith y mae gofalwyr, gofalwyr anffurfiol, a'r bobl sy'n gwneud swyddi mor bwysig yn y sector gofal yn ei wneud. Roedd ein penderfyniad i gynnig £500 i'r holl bobl hynny sy'n darparu gofal personol uniongyrchol mewn lleoliadau cartref a phreswyl yn un a oedd yn cydbwyso ein dymuniad i ddarparu'r gydnabyddiaeth honno yn erbyn y cyfyngiadau ariannol presennol yr ydym ni'n eu hwynebu. Felly, yr hyn yr wyf i'n hapus iawn i'w ddweud yw ein bod ni'n parhau i edrych ar hynny. Os oes cyfle i wneud mwy, byddem ni wir yn hoffi gwneud mwy. Nid yw'n ymwneud â dibrisio cyfraniad pobl eraill nad ydyn nhw'n darparu gofal personol uniongyrchol ond sy'n darparu gwasanaethau pwysig eraill yn y sector, ond os ydych chi'n llunio cynllun, mae'n rhaid i chi gael rhai meini prawf y gall y cynllun weithredu yn unol â nhw, ac mae'n rhaid i chi allu ei ddarparu gyda'r gyllideb sydd ar gael i Lywodraeth Cymru. Mae'n mynd i gostio £32 miliwn i ddarparu ar gyfer y 64,000 o bobl sydd wedi'u cynnwys yn y cynllun fel y'i cyhoeddwyd, a byddwn yn parhau i adolygu hynny'n ofalus iawn a gweld a yw'n bosibl gwneud mwy yn y dyfodol.

Rydym ni wedi dewis ei wneud yn y modd hwnnw yn hytrach na'r ffordd y mae Llywodraeth yr Alban wedi ei wneud, a cheir rhai manteision, rwy'n credu, i'n £500 ni, gan ei fod yn fesur blaengar. Rydym ni'n ei gynnig i bob gweithiwr gofal sy'n darparu gofal personol, faint bynnag o oriau maen nhw'n eu gweithio. Felly, mae'n gwneud y gwahaniaeth mwyaf i'r rhai sydd â'r lleiaf. A chan feddwl am y cwestiwn yr oedd Dawn Bowden yn ei ofyn am anghydraddoldeb a'n gallu i geisio cael rhywfaint o effaith ar hynny, mae ein cynllun wedi ei gynllunio gyda rhai agweddau bwriadol arno i wneud yn siŵr bod y cymorth yn cael ei deimlo fwyaf gan y rhai sydd fwyaf angen cymorth.

I very much welcome the £500 that we've given to care workers, because they are very much in the front line of risk, looking after the most vulnerable people living in very close circumstances. I also very much welcome the mobile testing units that have been launched to enable residents and staff in care homes to get tested, to see whether they've got the virus. But I'm sure you'll acknowledge that one mobile testing unit for the whole of Cardiff and the Vale is insufficient to cover all the care homes and all those vulnerable senior citizens who we need to protect. So I wanted to probe your plans for enabling us to massively increase the numbers of testing units. One report talks about 94 teams working seven days a week. It would appear that we can't rely on health personnel unless we want to see all the other important health interventions they deliver abandoned, and I wouldn't want to see that. So I wondered what consideration has been given to recruiting other people. In your statement, you paid tribute to the voluntary sector, and I'm aware that, in Sheffield, the pilot for testing and tracing was led by a retired director of public health; it also involves volunteers in supporting the tracing aspect of it.

Rwy'n croesawu'n fawr iawn y £500 yr ydym ni wedi ei roi i weithwyr gofal, oherwydd maen nhw'n sicr ar y rheng flaen o ran risg, yn gofalu am y bobl fwyaf agored i niwed yn byw mewn amgylchiadau agos iawn. Rwyf i hefyd yn croesawu'n fawr yr unedau profi symudol a lansiwyd i alluogi preswylwyr a staff mewn cartrefi gofal i gael eu profi, i weld a yw'r feirws ganddyn nhw. Ond rwy'n siŵr y gwnewch chi gydnabod nad yw un uned brofi symudol ar gyfer Caerdydd a'r Fro gyfan yn ddigonol ar gyfer yr holl gartrefi gofal a'r holl bobl hŷn agored i niwed hynny y mae angen i ni eu diogelu. Felly roeddwn i eisiau eich holi am eich cynlluniau ar gyfer ein galluogi i gynyddu yn enfawr nifer yr unedau profi. Mae un adroddiad yn sôn am 94 o dimau yn gweithio saith diwrnod yr wythnos. Mae'n ymddangos na allwn ni ddibynnu ar bersonél iechyd oni bai ein bod ni eisiau gweld yr holl ymyraethau iechyd pwysig eraill y maen nhw'n eu darparu yn cael eu rhoi o'r neilltu, ac ni fyddwn i eisiau gweld hynny. Felly, roeddwn i'n meddwl tybed pa ystyriaeth a roddwyd i recriwtio pobl eraill. Yn eich datganiad, fe wnaethoch chi dalu teyrnged i'r sector gwirfoddol, ac rwy'n ymwybodol, yn Sheffield, yr arweiniwyd yr arbrawf ar gyfer profi ac olrhain gan gyfarwyddwr iechyd y cyhoedd sydd wedi ymddeol; mae hefyd yn cynnwys gwirfoddolwyr yn cynorthwyo'r agwedd olrhain ar y broses.

14:20

Can I have a question from Jenny Rathbone now?

A gaf i gwestiwn gan Jenny Rathbone nawr?

So I wondered what the Government's strategy for involving a whole army of new people, including volunteers, in the mass testing campaign required to take control of the spread of COVID-19 might be.

Felly, roeddwn i'n meddwl tybed beth allai strategaeth y Llywodraeth ar gyfer cynnwys byddin gyfan o bobl newydd, gan gynnwys gwirfoddolwyr, yn yr ymgyrch profi torfol sydd ei hangen i gymryd rheolaeth dros ymlediad COVID-19 fod.

I thank Jenny Rathbone for that question. Of course, we have plans to expand significantly the number of tests that we will be able to provide in Wales when we move into the new world of test, trace and protect. And that will involve new ways in which we can deliver tests directly to where people live—an expanded home-testing regime—as well as the mobile testing units that we now have available. And of course, Jenny Rathbone is right that, when we move to that more community-based system, we will need a lot more people to be involved in contact tracing. And she's right as well that we can't take those people from important health jobs that they are currently doing.

Now, my colleague Vaughan Gething will answer questions on this later this afternoon, Llywydd, and I know you don't want us to just go over ground we will both cover. But in the test, trace, protect document that we have published earlier today, it says that we're looking for about 1,000 people in the first instance when the system begins. And we think that most of those people will come from local authorities—people who are not able to do the jobs they would normally do, but are being paid by local authorities and can then be put to work in this new way. The volunteers have done a fantastic job across Wales in the coronavirus crisis—we've had 7,000 people deployed on coronavirus-related activities across Wales—but those 1,000 people are going to be needed every week for many weeks to come, and volunteer circumstances are inevitably a bit volatile—they may themselves go back to work, they may have other things they need to do. So, our first thoughts at this stage are that recruiting those 1,000 people primarily through our local authorities, so that people are being paid for the job they do and can devote their working week to doing it, will be the way we will set about recruiting the staff we will need.

Diolchaf i Jenny Rathbone am y cwestiwn yna. Wrth gwrs, mae gennym ni gynlluniau i ehangu'n sylweddol nifer y profion y byddwn ni'n gallu eu darparu yng Nghymru pan fyddwn ni'n symud i mewn i'r byd newydd o brofi, olrhain a diogelu. A bydd hynny'n golygu ffyrdd newydd o ddarparu profion yn uniongyrchol i ble mae pobl yn byw—trefn profion cartref ehangach—yn ogystal â'r unedau profi symudol sydd gennym ni ar hyn o bryd. Ac wrth gwrs, mae Jenny Rathbone yn iawn wrth ddweud y bydd angen llawer mwy o bobl i gymryd rhan mewn gwaith olrhain cyswllt pan fyddwn ni'n symud i'r system honno sy'n fwy seiliedig ar y gymuned. Ac mae hi'n iawn hefyd na allwn ni gymryd y bobl hynny o swyddi iechyd pwysig y maen nhw'n eu gwneud ar hyn o bryd.

Nawr, bydd fy nghyd-Aelod Vaughan Gething yn ateb cwestiynau ar hyn yn ddiweddarach y prynhawn yma, Llywydd, a gwn nad ydych chi eisiau i ni drafod pethau y bydd y ddau ohonom ni'n rhoi sylw iddyn nhw. Ond yn y ddogfen profi, olrhain, diogelu yr ydym ni wedi ei chyhoeddi yn gynharach heddiw, mae'n dweud ein bod ni'n chwilio am tua 1,000 o bobl yn y lle cyntaf pan fydd y system yn cychwyn. Ac rydym ni'n credu y bydd y rhan fwyaf o'r bobl hynny'n dod o awdurdodau lleol—pobl nad ydyn nhw'n gallu gwneud y swyddi y bydden nhw'n eu gwneud fel rheol, ond sy'n cael eu talu gan awdurdodau lleol ac y gellir eu rhoi ar waith wedyn yn y ffordd newydd hon. Mae'r gwirfoddolwyr wedi gwneud gwaith gwych ledled Cymru yn argyfwng y coronafeirws—rydym ni wedi cael 7,000 o bobl yn ymgymryd â gweithgareddau yn ymwneud â coronafeirws ledled Cymru—ond bydd angen y 1,000 hynny o bobl bob wythnos am wythnosau lawer i ddod, ac mae amgylchiadau gwirfoddolwyr yn anochel yn gyfnewidiol braidd—efallai y byddan nhw eu hunain yn dychwelyd i'r gwaith, efallai y bydd ganddyn nhw bethau eraill y maen nhw angen eu gwneud. Felly, ein teimladau cyntaf ar hyn o bryd yw mai recriwtio'r 1,000 o bobl hynny yn bennaf drwy ein hawdurdodau lleol, fel bod pobl yn cael eu talu am y gwaith y maen nhw'n ei wneud ac yn gallu neilltuo eu hwythnos waith i'w wneud, fydd y ffordd y byddwn ni'n mynd ati i recriwtio'r staff y bydd eu hangen arnom ni.

The reason for introducing the draconian restrictions upon human freedoms and people's right to work started out as being to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed. It seems now to have morphed into stopping the R factor, the reproduction factor for the disease, from rising above 1. But does the First Minister not understand that this is a fool's errand?

Professor Giesecke, the Swedish Government's chief adviser on the coronavirus, wrote an article in The Lancet last week, in which he said that the disease spreads almost always from younger people with no or weak symptoms to other people who will also have mild symptoms. There's very little we can do to prevent this spread. Lockdown might delay severe cases for a while, but once restrictions are eased, cases will reappear. I expect, if we count the number of deaths from COVID in each country a year from now, the figures will be similar, regardless of the measures taken. The First Minister said earlier, quite rightly, that the lockdown is a major generator of poverty and inequality, therefore we must lift the restrictions as quickly as is consistent with stopping the health service from being overwhelmed in its ability to treat severe cases.

In Sweden, the infection rate of the disease is actually less than here in Britain. And in Stockholm county, a quarter of the population have now had this infection, but the death rates in Sweden, although higher than their neighbours, are not dramatically different from the death rates in other western European countries. So, does he not see that the overall best interests of the people of this country are in being bold, rather than timid, which is what the Welsh Government seems to want to do?

Ar y cychwyn, y rheswm am gyflwyno'r cyfyngiadau llym ar ryddid dynol a hawl pobl i weithio oedd amddiffyn y GIG rhag cael ei lethu. Mae'n ymddangos bellach ei fod wedi newid i atal y ffactor R, ffactor atgynhyrchu'r clefyd, rhag codi uwchlaw 1. Ond onid yw'r Prif Weinidog yn deall mai ffolineb yw hyn?

Ysgrifennodd yr Athro Giesecke, prif gynghorydd Llywodraeth Sweden ar y coronafeirws, erthygl yn The Lancet yr wythnos diwethaf, pryd y dywedodd bod y clefyd yn lledaenu bron bob amser o bobl iau heb unrhyw symptomau neu symptomau gwan i bobl eraill a fydd hefyd â symptomau ysgafn. Ychydig iawn y gallwn ni ei wneud i atal lledaeniad hwn. Efallai y bydd cyfyngiadau symud yn oedi achosion difrifol am gyfnod, ond ar ôl i'r cyfyngiadau gael eu llacio, bydd achosion yn ailymddangos. Rwy'n disgwyl, os byddwn ni'n cyfrif nifer y marwolaethau o COVID ym mhob gwlad flwyddyn o nawr, y bydd y ffigurau'n debyg, waeth beth fo'r mesurau a gymerwyd. Dywedodd y Prif Weinidog yn gynharach, yn gwbl briodol, bod y cyfyngiadau symud yn gynhyrchydd mawr o dlodi ac anghydraddoldeb, felly mae'n rhaid i ni godi'r cyfyngiadau mor gyflym ag sy'n gyson â rhwystro'r gwasanaeth iechyd rhag cael ei lethu yn ei allu i drin achosion difrifol.

Yn Sweden, mae cyfradd heintio'r clefyd yn llai nag yma ym Mhrydain mewn gwirionedd. Ac yn sir Stockholm, mae chwarter y boblogaeth wedi cael yr haint hwn erbyn hyn, ond nid yw'r cyfraddau marwolaeth yn Sweden, er eu bod yn uwch na'u cymdogion, yn wahanol iawn i'r cyfraddau marwolaeth yng ngwledydd eraill gorllewin Ewrop. Felly, onid yw e'n gweld bod buddiannau gorau cyffredinol pobl y wlad hon yn deillio o fod yn feiddgar, yn hytrach na bod yn betrus, sef yr hyn y mae'n ymddangos bod Llywodraeth Cymru eisiau ei wneud?

14:25

Llywydd, apologies that I struggled to hear a little bit of what the Member was saying, but I think the thrust of his argument is that we are 'foolish', I think was the word he used, to focus on the R value and that we should be bold. Well, let me tell him what being bold would mean: the R value in Wales, we think, at the moment is 0.8, and even at 0.8 we have to anticipate that over the next three months another 800 Welsh citizens will die because of the virus. If the R number were to rise to 1.1—so that's a tiny number of one-tenths of one—if it was to creep up to 1.1, the number of deaths over that three-month period would be 7,200. So, the price of being bold is the death of 6,500 people in Wales.

I see that the Member doesn't agree, but I'm not making it up. I am giving him the very best figures that our epidemiologists and public health physicians offer. And this is a figure that will be agreed right across the United Kingdom. At 0.8, 800 people very, very sadly may die over the next three months. At 1.1—just that tiny increase—it's 7,200. It's easy to sit here and be bold. I'm not going to be willing to be bold when 6,500 of our fellow citizens would have to bear the brunt of that boldness.

Llywydd, ymddiheuriadau fy mod i wedi ei chael hi'n anodd clywed ychydig o'r hyn yr oedd yr Aelod yn ei ddweud, ond rwy'n credu mai byrdwn ei ddadl yw ein bod ni'n 'ffôl', rwy'n credu oedd y gair a ddefnyddiodd, i ganolbwyntio ar y gwerth R ac y dylem ni fod yn feiddgar. Wel, gadewch i mi ddweud wrtho beth fyddai bod yn feiddgar yn ei olygu: rydym ni'n credu mai 0.8 yw'r gwerth R yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd, a hyd yn oed ar 0.8 mae'n rhaid i ni ragweld y bydd 800 o ddinasyddion ychwanegol yng Nghymru yn marw oherwydd y feirws dros y tri mis nesaf. Pe byddai'r rhif R yn codi i 1.1—felly mae hynny'n nifer fach iawn o ddegfed rhan o un—pe byddai'n cynyddu i 1.1, byddai nifer y marwolaethau dros y cyfnod hwnnw o dri mis yn 7,200. Felly pris bod yn feiddgar yw marwolaeth 6,500 o bobl yng Nghymru.

Rwy'n gweld nad yw'r Aelod yn cytuno, ond nid fi sy'n dweud hyn. Rwyf i'n rhoi iddo'r ffigurau gorau posibl y mae ein epidemiolegwyr a'n meddygon iechyd cyhoeddus yn eu cynnig. Ac mae hwn yn ffigur y cytunir arno ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig. Ar 0.8, gallai 800 o bobl, yn anffodus dros ben, farw dros y tri mis nesaf. Ar 1.1—dim ond y cynnydd bach iawn hwnnw—mae'n 7,200. Mae'n hawdd eistedd yn y fan yma a bod yn feiddgar. Nid wyf i'n barod i fod yn feiddgar pan fyddai'n rhaid i 6,500 o'n cyd-ddinasyddion ddwyn baich y beiddgarwch hwnnw.

Before I call Huw Irranca-Davies, can I just make sure that Members have their microphone close to their mouths when they're speaking? I've only just noticed that perhaps Neil Hamilton's wasn't at that point, but it was just about possible to hear. So, just a reminder to all Members, and—who did I say? Yes, Huw Irranca-Davies.

Cyn i mi alw ar Huw Irranca-Davies, a gaf i wneud yn siŵr bod yr Aelodau yn rhoi  eu meicroffonau yn agos at eu cegau pan eu bod nhw'n siarad? Dim ond newydd sylwi wyf i efallai nad oedd hynny'n wir am feicroffon Neil Hamilton y tro yna, ond roedd hi fwy neu lai yn bosibl clywed. Felly, dim ond i atgoffa yr holl Aelodau, a—phwy ddywedais i? Ie, Huw Irranca-Davies.

Diolch, Llywydd. I hope you can hear me.

Diolch, Llywydd. Gobeithio eich bod yn gallu fy nghlywed i.

Could I ask you, First Minister, for your emerging thoughts on the work being taken forward by the Counsel General on rebuilding post COVD-19, and the similar work being developed by some of the big city mayors in England on the theme of 'building back better'? In this terrible ongoing tragedy of coronavirus, people have also seen, first-hand, the benefits of cleaner air, lower traffic, and more livable streets and communities in places that were previously choked with pollution and congestion. And under lockdown, people have seen first-hand the quality-of-life benefits of vibrant, green spaces, as compared to tarmac and concrete, and more space and freedom to walk and cycle rather than to drive. So, First Minister, can I ask what measures can be put into place right now, and going forward as the restrictions may be eased, to enable more and more people to get around for work and recreation by walking and cycling, especially while the capacity of public transport remains constrained, so that we can avoid a calamitous return to traffic congestion, air and noise pollution and the associated health impacts, and so that we can respond to the very real underlying climate change emergency?

A gaf i ofyn i chi, Prif Weinidog, am eich syniadau sy'n dod i'r amlwg am y gwaith sy'n cael ei wneud gan y Cwnsler Cyffredinol ar ailadeiladu ar ôl COVID-19, a'r gwaith tebyg sy'n cael ei ddatblygu gan rai o feiri'r dinasoedd mawr yn Lloegr ar y thema 'adeiladu'n ôl yn well'? Yn y drychineb barhaus ofnadwy hon o coronafeirws, mae pobl hefyd wedi gweld, yn uniongyrchol, fanteision aer glanach, llai o draffig, a strydoedd a chymunedau haws byw ynddyn nhw mewn mannau a oedd wedi eu tagu gan lygredd a thagfeydd gynt. Ac o dan y cyfyngiadau symud, mae pobl wedi gweld drostyn nhw eu hunain fanteision ansawdd bywyd mannau gwyrdd, bywiog, o'u cymharu â tharmac a choncrid, a mwy o le a rhyddid i gerdded a beicio yn hytrach na gyrru. Felly, Prif Weinidog, a gaf i ofyn pa fesurau y gellir eu rhoi ar waith nawr, ac yn y dyfodol wrth i'r cyfyngiadau gael eu llacio, i alluogi mwy a mwy o bobl i fynd o le i le ar gyfer gwaith a hamdden trwy gerdded a beicio, yn enwedig tra bo capasiti cludiant cyhoeddus yn parhau i fod yn gyfyngedig, fel y gallwn ni osgoi dychweliad trychinebus i dagfeydd traffig, llygredd aer a sŵn a'r effeithiau iechyd cysylltiedig, ac fel y gallwn ni ymateb i argyfwng sylfaenol gwirioneddol y newid yn yr hinsawdd?

Llywydd, I thank Huw Irranca-Davies for that. Can I just begin by admiring the tribute that I can see behind him to people from the Llynfi valley who lost their lives in fighting fascism during the 1930s?

He will have seen the statement that my colleague Lee Waters put out last week, inviting expressions of interest by 21 May from all local authorities to take advantage of the fact that roads are nowhere near as busy as they otherwise would be to try to lock in some of the advantages that Huw Irranca-Davies has referred to. We've all at least benefited during this crisis from the declines in air pollution and noise pollution, and we really don't want to simply go back to recreating all those difficulties if we can avoid them, because of the health impacts and the impact on climate change that we knew they had.

In that call for expressions of interest from local authorities, backed up by money from the Welsh Government, we're looking to local authorities to bring forward proposals for footway widening, temporary cycle lanes, speed restrictions, bus infrastructure improvements and other things and that local authorities, in an imaginative way, as the call for proposals makes clear, use the moment we have to try to lock into our infrastructure some of the advantages that we've seen from being a major reduction in traffic over recent weeks, with the benefits that we're getting from it now and want to be able to go on seeing those benefits in the future. 

Llywydd, diolchaf i Huw Irranca-Davies am hynna. A gaf i ddechrau drwy edmygu'r deyrnged y gallaf i ei gweld y tu ôl iddo i bobl o gwm Llynfi a gollodd eu bywydau wrth ymladd ffasgiaeth yn ystod y 1930au?

Bydd wedi gweld y datganiad a gyhoeddwyd gan fy nghydweithiwr Lee Waters yr wythnos diwethaf, yn gwahodd datganiadau o ddiddordeb erbyn 21 Mai gan bob awdurdod lleol i fanteisio ar y ffaith nad yw ffyrdd yn agos at fod mor brysur ag y bydden nhw fel arall i geisio cadw rhai o'r manteision y mae Huw Irranca-Davies wedi cyfeirio atyn nhw. Rydym ni i gyd o leiaf wedi elwa yn ystod yr argyfwng hwn ar y gostyngiadau i lygredd aer a llygredd sŵn, a dydym ni wir ddim eisiau mynd yn ôl i ail-greu'r holl anawsterau hynny os gallwn ni eu hosgoi, oherwydd yr effeithiau ar iechyd a'r effaith ar y newid yn yr hinsawdd yr oeddem ni'n gwybod yr oedden nhw'n eu cael.

Yn yr alwad honno am ddatganiadau o ddiddordeb gan awdurdodau lleol, gyda chefnogaeth arian gan Lywodraeth Cymru, rydym ni'n disgwyl i awdurdodau lleol gyflwyno cynigion ar gyfer lledu llwybrau troed, lonydd beicio dros dro, cyfyngiadau cyflymder, gwelliannau i seilwaith bysiau a phethau eraill a bod awdurdodau lleol, mewn modd llawn dychymyg, fel y mae'r galwad am gynigion yn ei wneud yn eglur, yn defnyddio'r ennyd sydd gennym ni i geisio cynnwys yn barhaol yn ein seilwaith rai o'r manteision yr ydym ni wedi eu gweld o gael gostyngiad mawr i draffig yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf, gyda'r manteision yr ydym ni'n eu cael ohono nawr ac yn dymuno gallu parhau i weld y manteision hynny yn y dyfodol.

14:30

Can I ask, First Minister—? I listened very carefully to your answer to Andrew R.T. Davies before, but, I have to say, I'm not very satisfied with it. It's very clear, from the guidance that prevailed here in Wales on Saturday that, going for a walk and having a picnic cannot be considered to be exercise and is not intended to be a reasonable excuse. You changed the guidance on Monday, and many people will think that that might be because of the fact that the health Minister was photographed sitting on the park bench having a picnic with his family over the weekend.

Now, it looks to the public that it's one rule for the health Minister and another rule for for them. So, don't you agree with me that Vaughan Gething has had his chips? And when are you going to remove him from the park bench and put him on the subs bench, where he belongs? 

A gaf i ofyn, Prif Weinidog—? Gwrandewais yn astud iawn ar eich ateb i Andrew R.T. Davies yn gynharach, ond, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, nid wyf yn fodlon iawn ag ef. Mae'n amlwg iawn, o'r canllawiau a oedd ar waith yma yng Nghymru ddydd Sadwrn na ellir ystyried bod mynd am dro a chael picnic yn ymarfer corff ac na fwriedir iddo fod yn esgus rhesymol. Newidiwyd y canllawiau gennych chi ddydd Llun, a bydd llawer o bobl yn meddwl efallai mai'r rheswm am hynny yw'r ffaith y tynnwyd llun y Gweinidog iechyd yn eistedd ar fainc y parc yn cael picnic gyda'i deulu dros y penwythnos.

Nawr, mae'n edrych i'r cyhoedd fel bod un rheol i'r Gweinidog iechyd a rheol arall iddyn nhw. Felly, onid ydych chi'n cytuno â mi bod Vaughan Gething wedi cael ei tsips? A phryd ydych chi'n mynd i'w dynnu oddi ar y fainc yn y parc a'i roi ar fainc yr eilyddion, lle y dylai fod?

Llywydd, I've already said, I'm not going to be drawn into that sort of distasteful personal attack on anybody. A brief stop to allow a child to eat is not a picnic in anybody's language, and just for his information, before he tries to spread the sort of slur that he tried in his question, the decisions that the Welsh Government made on the measures that we were going to change were made on Thursday of last week. They were made in a Cabinet meeting that was properly and officially minuted; it had nothing to do with any incident that he is referring to and he should stop trying to imply that it did. 

Llywydd, rwyf i eisoes wedi dweud, nid wyf i'n mynd i gael fy nhynnu i mewn i'r math hwnnw o ymosodiad personol di-chwaeth ar neb. Nid picnic yw saib byr i ganiatáu i blentyn fwyta yn iaith neb, a dim ond iddo gael gwybod, cyn iddo geisio lledaenu'r math o sarhad a geisiodd yn ei gwestiwn, gwnaed y penderfyniadau a wnaeth Llywodraeth Cymru ar y mesurau yr oeddem ni'n mynd i'w newid ddydd Iau yr wythnos diwethaf. Fe'u gwnaed mewn cyfarfod Cabinet a gofnodwyd yn briodol ac yn swyddogol; nid oedd a wnelo dim ag unrhyw ddigwyddiad y mae e'n cyfeirio ato a dylai roi'r gorau i geisio awgrymu hynny.

I'm sure the First Minister will agree with me that, while the extension to the job retention scheme, the furlough scheme, is welcome, it's really regrettable that we still have approximately 22,000 Welsh citizens who should have been able to be helped by that scheme who are not, because they were changing jobs at the time that the scheme was introduced.

May I ask the First Minister for two things this afternoon? Will he commit to continuing, as I know the economy Minister has already done, to advocate to the UK Government for those Welsh citizens who have been inadvertently, I believe, but most unfairly, excluded from the scheme? And will he also have discussions with the Welsh Minister for the economy to see if there's any possibility that if the Chancellor remains intransigent on this matter that the Welsh Government may be able to provide some assistance to those citizens who have been let down? I should be clear here, Llywydd, I'm not suggesting that Welsh Government would be able to afford to replace furlough, but there may be some other kind of assistance that can be provided if the Chancellor cannot be persuaded to include these people. 

Rwy'n siŵr y bydd y Prif Weinidog yn cytuno â mi, er bod yr estyniad i'r cynllun cadw swyddi, y cynllun ffyrlo, i'w groesawu, ei bod hi'n wirioneddol anffodus bod gennym ni tua 22,000 o ddinasyddion Cymru o hyd a ddylai fod wedi gallu cael eu helpu gan y cynllun hwnnw nad ydyn nhw'n cael eu helpu, oherwydd eu bod nhw'n newid swydd ar adeg cyflwyno'r cynllun.

A gaf i ofyn i'r Prif Weinidog am ddau beth y prynhawn yma? A wnaiff ef ymrwymo i barhau, fel y gwn fod Gweinidog yr economi eisoes wedi ei wneud, i eirioli i Lywodraeth y DU ar ran y dinasyddion hynny yng Nghymru sydd wedi cael eu heithrio o'r cynllun yn anfwriadol, rwy'n credu, ond yn annheg iawn? Ac a wnaiff ef hefyd gael trafodaethau gyda Gweinidog Cymru dros yr economi i weld a oes unrhyw bosibilrwydd, os bydd y Canghellor yn parhau i fod yn ddi-ildio ar y mater hwn, y gallai Llywodraeth Cymru roi rhywfaint o gymorth i'r dinasyddion hynny sydd wedi cael eu siomi? Dylwn fod yn eglur yn y fan yma, Llywydd, nid wyf i'n awgrymu y byddai Llywodraeth Cymru yn gallu fforddio disodli ffyrlo, ond efallai y bydd rhyw fath o gymorth arall y gellir ei ddarparu os na ellir perswadio'r Canghellor i gynnwys y bobl hyn.

Llywydd, can I thank Helen Mary Jones for those very constructive suggestions? I will share with her that we welcome the furlough scheme and we welcome its extension, and I think she's right as well. But the unfairness in it, particularly to those people who were changing jobs at the time, was not an intentional unfairness, but it is a very real unfairness in the lives of those individuals, and we do and will go on putting those points directly to the UK Government as evidence of some of the unintended aspects of the schemes put in place by the UK Government become more apparent.

Helen Mary Jones will know that we paused our own economic resilience fund to take stock of it, to see whether there is any fine tuning that we could make to be able to meet some additional gaps in the provision made by the UK Government. We're working hard inside the Welsh Government now to see if there are any further ways in which we might be able to collect some money together to bolster that fund still further. And I will absolutely make sure that I discuss with Ken Skates the plight of the people Helen Mary Jones has highlighted this afternoon.

Llywydd, a gaf i ddiolch i Helen Mary Jones am yr awgrymiadau adeiladol iawn yna? Rwyf yn rhannu gyda hi ein bod ni'n croesawu'r cynllun ffyrlo a'n bod ni'n croesawu ei estyniad, ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n iawn hefyd. Ond nid oedd yr annhegwch ynddo, yn enwedig i'r bobl hynny a oedd yn newid swydd ar y pryd, yn annhegwch bwriadol, ond mae'n annhegwch gwirioneddol ym mywydau'r unigolion hynny, ac rydym a byddwn yn parhau i wneud y pwyntiau hynny yn uniongyrchol i Lywodraeth y DU wrth i dystiolaeth o rai o agweddau anfwriadol y cynlluniau a roddwyd ar waith gan Lywodraeth y DU ddod yn fwy amlwg.

Bydd Helen Mary Jones yn gwybod ein bod ni wedi rhewi ein cronfa cadernid economaidd ein hunain er mwyn ei phwyso a'i mesur, i weld a oes unrhyw fireinio y gallem ni ei wneud er mwyn gallu llenwi rhai bylchau ychwanegol yn y ddarpariaeth a wnaed gan Lywodraeth y DU. Rydym ni'n gweithio'n galed y tu mewn i Lywodraeth Cymru ar hyn o bryd i weld a oes unrhyw ffyrdd eraill y gallem ni gasglu rhywfaint o arian gyda'i gilydd i gryfhau'r gronfa honno ymhellach fyth. A byddaf yn sicr yn gwneud yn siŵr fy mod i'n trafod gyda Ken Skates trafferthion y bobl y mae Helen Mary Jones wedi tynnu sylw atyn nhw y prynhawn yma.

14:35

First Minister, as we go through this pandemic, it's becoming increasingly clear that there is greater incidence of the disease in our black and minority ethnic communities. I know that there's work going on at a Wales and UK level to try and understand the reasons for that, and address it as effectively as possible. But, as we move out of lockdown, First Minister, and perhaps we move towards trace, test and protect, I think there's going to be a stronger need still to make sure that engagement with our ethnic minority communities, communication and messaging is everything that it needs to be, given language and cultural differences. So, I just wonder whether Welsh Government will be stepping up its efforts to make sure that we are understanding and engaging with our ethnic minority communities ever more effectively given the particular threat posed to them by this terrible virus.

Prif Weinidog, wrth i ni fynd drwy'r pandemig hwn, mae'n dod yn fwyfwy amlwg bod mwy o achosion o'r clefyd yn ein cymunedau pobl dduon a lleiafrifoedd ethnig. Gwn fod gwaith yn mynd rhagddo ar lefel Cymru ac ar lefel y DU i geisio deall y rhesymau am hynny, a mynd i'r afael â hynny mewn modd mor effeithiol â phosibl. Ond, wrth i ni symud allan o'r cyfyngiadau symud, Prif Weinidog, ac efallai ein bod yn symud tuag at brofi, olrhain a diogelu, rwy'n credu y bydd angen cryfach eto i sicrhau bod ymgysylltu â'n cymunedau lleiafrifoedd ethnig, cyfathrebu a chyfleu negeseuon yn bopeth y mae angen iddo fod, o ystyried gwahaniaethau iaith a diwylliannol. Felly, tybed a fydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn cynyddu ei hymdrechion i sicrhau ein bod yn deall ac yn ymgysylltu â'n cymunedau lleiafrifoedd ethnig yn fwy effeithiol fyth o ystyried y bygythiad arbennig y mae'r feirws ofnadwy hwn yn ei achosi iddyn nhw.

Llywydd, can I thank John Griffiths for those important questions? I think I said last week in answering questions that I was going, during the rest of the afternoon, to attend part of the meeting of the advisory group that we have set up from black and minority ethnic communities. And I did indeed do that, and I'm looking forward to some of the recommendations from the work that is being chaired by Judge Ray Singh and involves people from a wide range of relevant communities in Wales.

The point that John Griffiths has made this afternoon was echoed in that part of the conversation that I was able to listen in on, which is that community-level engagement will require a different sort of approach, and as we move into trace, test and protect, lots of what that will rely on will be web based and telephone based, but we will need some capacity of people able to walk around in communities and communicate with people in that way. So, we're thinking that through, we're thinking through the points that John made about language and literacy, and how we get messages into communities that are not likely to get their information or their advice from more conventional forms of media. So, I thank him for raising those points. I want to assure him that they were being debated in a lively way inside the advisory group and that that strand in their thinking is making a difference to the way in which practical planning for the test, trace and protect service will be designed and delivered in Wales.

Llywydd, a gaf i ddiolch i John Griffiths am y cwestiynau pwysig yna? Rwy'n credu fy mod wedi dweud yr wythnos diwethaf wrth ateb cwestiynau fy mod i'n mynd, yn ystod gweddill y prynhawn, i fod yn bresennol yn rhan o gyfarfod y grŵp cynghori yr ydym ni wedi'i sefydlu o gymunedau pobl dduon a lleiafrifoedd ethnig. Ac fe wnes i hynny yn wir, ac rwy'n edrych ymlaen at rai o'r argymhellion o'r gwaith sy'n cael ei gadeirio gan y Barnwr Ray Singh ac sy'n cynnwys pobl o amrywiaeth eang o gymunedau perthnasol yng Nghymru.

Adleisiwyd y pwynt a mae John Griffiths wedi ei wneud y prynhawn yma yn y rhan honno o'r sgwrs y llwyddais i wrando arni, sef y bydd angen dull gweithredu gwahanol ar gyfer ymgysylltu ar lefel y gymuned, ac wrth i ni symud tuag at brofi, olrhain a diogelu, bydd llawer o'r hyn y bydd hynny'n dibynnu arno yn seiliedig ar y we ac ar y ffôn, ond bydd angen i ni gael rhywfaint o gapasiti o bobl sy'n gallu cerdded o gwmpas mewn cymunedau a chyfathrebu â phobl yn y ffordd honno. Felly, rydym ni'n ystyried hynny, rydym ni'n ystyried y pwyntiau a wnaeth John am iaith a llythrennedd, a sut yr ydym ni'n trosglwyddo negeseuon i gymunedau nad ydyn nhw'n debygol o gael eu gwybodaeth na'u cyngor o gyfryngau mwy confensiynol. Felly, diolchaf iddo am godi'r pwyntiau hynny. Hoffwn ei sicrhau eu bod yn cael eu trafod mewn ffordd fywiog yn y grŵp cynghori a bod yr elfen honno o'u meddylfryd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth i'r ffordd y bydd cynllunio ymarferol ar gyfer y gwasanaeth profi, olrhain a diogelu yn cael ei ddylunio a'i ddarparu yng Nghymru.

First Minister, Animal Farm has been mentioned, and I'm sure that Mark Reckless was doing a good impression there of being the Boxer to Nigel Farage's Napoleon. I do hope, of course, he doesn't end up—[Inaudible.]—away, and nor would I want him to.

The Snowball figure, perhaps, is Daniel Kawczynski, isn't he—the Conservative MP for Shrewsbury who, in answer to not being able to go to the beach, is to abolish the Government and Parliament of the country in which that beach is situated, and in fairness, he's been condemned by members of his own party about that. I'm sure also he'll join me in condemning Darren Millar's parliamentary colleague, David Jones, who is at this very moment on Twitter using the hashtag #StayAlert and is using another Government's strapline. I know he's often tried to pretend he's living in England, but this is another mistake as far as his constituents are concerned. I'm very sure that Darren Miller will join in in that condemnation.

First Minister, do you agree with me that what we've heard today regarding the health Minister is deeply misleading? We have a situation here where somebody goes out for a walk, for exercise with his family, including a five-year-old child. They then have food because the five-year-old child is hungry, and sit down and eat it. Well, I'm sorry, but nobody fair, rational or indeed proportional in any way would see that as being anything wrong. And I'm suspicious about this because on Friday, we had the announcement regarding what was happening in Wales and on Sunday in England. The Sun normally takes no interest at all in Wales. I wonder if the First Minister knows, perhaps, whether The Sun was put up to this by somebody and the fact that it's been used today does give me some cause for concern. 

Finally, First Minister, could I ask you this—? You've been very helpful in clarifying the situation with regard to golf and angling particularly, and you have said—and it seems quite clear to me—that the default position is to stay at home but there are, of course, exceptions. One exception is to do something that's necessary—going, perhaps, to the supermarket where it's necessary to drive to the nearest supermarket. That much is clear, I think, to the public. But you've also said, of course, that exercise is another reason. Exercise is not necessary, but nevertheless, it is permitted. And what is clear is that, with exercise, there are more stringent rules in the sense that people should not drive to exercise. There's no need to do that anyway; that's not essential or necessary. But, of course, what you've done today is to clarify the situation with regard to some sports and pastimes. With golf, I think it's probably right to say, isn't it, that golf clubs shouldn't really open, but golf courses could be opened with the appropriate safeguards and following the appropriate rules? When it comes to angling, of course—

Prif Weinidog, mae Animal Farm wedi ei grybwyll, ac rwy'n siŵr bod Mark Reckless yn gwneud dynwarediad da yn y fan yna o fod y Boxer i Napoleon Nigel Farage. Rwyf yn gobeithio, wrth gwrs, na fydd yn y pen draw yn—[Anhyglyw.]—i ffwrdd, ac ni fyddwn eisiau iddo wneud hynny ychwaith.

Daniel Kawczynski yw'r cymeriad Snowball, efallai, onid e—yr AS Ceidwadol dros Amwythig sydd, mewn ymateb i fethu â mynd i'r traeth, am ddiddymu Llywodraeth a Senedd y wlad lle mae'r traeth hwnnw wedi ei leoli, ac a bod yn deg, mae aelodau o'i blaid ei hun wedi ei gondemnio am hynny. Rwy'n siŵr hefyd y bydd yn ymuno â mi i gondemnio cydweithiwr seneddol Darren Millar, sef David Jones, sydd ar yr union eiliad hwn ar Twitter yn defnyddio'r hashnod #StayAlert ac sy'n defnyddio is-bennawd Llywodraeth arall. Rwy'n gwybod ei fod yn aml yn ceisio esgus ei fod yn byw yn Lloegr, ond mae hwn yn gamgymeriad arall o safbwynt ei etholwyr. Rwy'n siŵr iawn y bydd Darren Millar yn ymuno yn y condemniad hwnnw.

Prif Weinidog, a ydych chi'n cytuno â mi bod yr hyn yr ydym ni wedi ei glywed heddiw ynghylch y Gweinidog iechyd yn gamarweiniol iawn? Mae gennym ni sefyllfa yn y fan yma lle mae rhywun yn mynd allan am dro, i ymarfer corff gyda'i deulu, gan gynnwys plentyn pum mlwydd oed. Yna, maen nhw'n cael bwyd am fod y plentyn pum mlwydd oed yn llwglyd, ac yn eistedd i lawr a'i fwyta. Wel, mae'n ddrwg gen i, ond ni fyddai neb teg, rhesymol nac yn wir cymesur mewn unrhyw ffordd yn gweld hynny fel bod unrhyw beth heb fod yn iawn. Ac rwy'n amheus am hyn oherwydd ddydd Gwener, cawsom y cyhoeddiad am yr hyn a oedd yn digwydd yng Nghymru a dydd Sul yn Lloegr. Nid yw'r Sun fel arfer yn cymryd unrhyw ddiddordeb o gwbl yng Nghymru. Tybed a yw'r Prif Weinidog yn gwybod, efallai, a wnaeth rhywun ofyn i'r Sun wneud hyn ac mae'r ffaith ei fod wedi ei ddefnyddio heddiw yn achosi peth pryder i mi.

Yn olaf, Prif Weinidog, a gaf i ofyn hyn i chi—? Rydych chi wedi bod o gymorth mawr i egluro'r sefyllfa o ran golff a physgota yn arbennig, ac rydych chi wedi dweud—ac mae'n ymddangos yn eithaf clir i mi—mai'r sefyllfa ddiofyn yw aros gartref ond, wrth gwrs, mae yna eithriadau. Un eithriad yw gwneud rhywbeth angenrheidiol—mynd, efallai, i'r archfarchnad lle mae angen gyrru i'r archfarchnad agosaf. Mae cymaint â hynny, rwy'n credu, yn amlwg i'r cyhoedd. Ond rydych chi hefyd wedi dweud, wrth gwrs, bod ymarfer corff yn rheswm arall. Nid yw ymarfer corff yn angenrheidiol, ond serch hynny, mae'n cael ei ganiatáu. A'r hyn sy'n glir yw bod rheolau llymach, gydag ymarfer corff, yn yr ystyr na ddylai pobl yrru i wneud ymarfer corff. Nid oes angen gwneud hynny beth bynnag; nid yw hynny'n hanfodol nac yn angenrheidiol. Ond, wrth gwrs, yr hyn yr ydych chi wedi ei wneud heddiw yw egluro'r sefyllfa o ran rhai chwaraeon a gweithgareddau hamdden. O ran golff, rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n iawn, mae'n debyg, i ddweud, onid yw hi, na ddylai clybiau golff agor mewn gwirionedd, ond y gellid agor cyrsiau golff drwy ddefnyddio'r mesurau diogelu priodol a dilyn y rheolau priodol? Pan ddaw'n fater o bysgota, wrth gwrs—

14:40

Can I ask Carwyn Jones to come to his question, please?

A gaf i ofyn i Carwyn Jones ddod at ei gwestiwn, os gwelwch yn dda?

I am coming to it. I know I'm trying your patience, Llywydd. Can I thank the First Minister for providing the clarity again about angling? At the moment, it's not good weather for angling, I have to say—

Rwyf yn dod ato. Rwy'n gwybod fy mod yn trethu eich amynedd, Llywydd. A gaf i ddiolch i'r Prif Weinidog am roi'r eglurder eto am bysgota? Ar hyn o bryd, nid yw'n dywydd da i bysgota, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud—

We don't need to know what the weather's like. We all know that the weather's good. Can we come to the question?

Does dim angen i ni wybod sut mae'r tywydd. Rydym ni i gyd yn gwybod bod y tywydd yn dda. A gawn ni ddod at y cwestiwn?

I was simply going to say: can I thank the First Minister for the clarity he's provided with regard to golf and angling particularly and, of course, the clarity he's provided for the whole of the last few weeks in contrast to what we've seen sometimes over the border in England? 

Roeddwn i'n mynd i ddweud yn syml: a gaf i ddiolch i'r Prif Weinidog am yr eglurder y mae wedi ei roi ynglŷn â golff a physgota yn enwedig ac, wrth gwrs, yr eglurder y mae wedi ei ddarparu ar gyfer y cyfan o'r wythnosau diwethaf yn wahanol i'r hyn yr ydym wedi ei weld weithiau dros y ffin yn Lloegr?

Well, I thank Carwyn Jones for those points. I think the position in Wales is clear. The advice is, 'Stay at home'. You leave home by exception, and when you're engaging in one of the exceptions, then you stay as locally as possible for those exceptions, because that's the way in which we help to save lives.

I agree entirely with the points that my colleague, Carwyn Jones, made about Vaughan Gething and his family. I'm afraid I'm not a reader of The Sun newspaper, so I'm not able to help the former First Minister there.

Let me go to the big points that he made at the start of his contribution. I want to be clear, Llywydd, the Welsh Government believes in a four-nation approach. We think we've still got a four-nation approach, because all four parts of the United Kingdom are still moving in the same direction in the same careful and cautious way. What you don't want is to turn the legitimate use of the powers of the Senedd, to fine tune those things so they fit for Wales, into something that is divisive as the Member of Parliament for Shrewsbury so clearly deliberately set out to do, or, indeed, confusing. The advice in Wales is clear: stay home, protect the NHS, save lives. All Members of Parliament should be telling Welsh citizens the position that is here in Wales, and it is only confusing where people are trying to do something different. 

Wel, diolch i Carwyn Jones am y pwyntiau yna. Rwy'n credu bod y sefyllfa yng Nghymru yn glir. Y Cyngor yw, 'Arhoswch gartref'. Rydych chi'n gadael cartref drwy eithriad, a phan eich bod yn ymwneud ag un o'r eithriadau, yna byddwch yn aros mor lleol ag sy'n bosibl ar gyfer yr eithriadau hynny, oherwydd dyna sut yr ydym ni'n helpu i achub bywydau.

Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â'r pwyntiau a wnaeth fy nghyd-Aelod, Carwyn Jones, am Vaughan Gething a'i deulu. Rwy'n ofni nad wyf yn darllen papur newydd y Sun, felly dydw i ddim yn gallu helpu'r cyn Brif Weinidog yn hynny o beth.

Gadewch i mi fynd at y pwyntiau mawr a wnaeth ar ddechrau ei gyfraniad. Rwyf eisiau bod yn glir, Llywydd, fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn credu mewn dull pedair gwlad. Rydym ni'n credu bod gennym ni ddull pedair gwlad o hyd, oherwydd bod pob un o bedair rhan y Deyrnas Unedig yn dal i symud i'r un cyfeiriad yn yr un ffordd ofalus a gwyliadwrus. Yr hyn nad ydych chi eisiau ei wneud yw troi'r defnydd cyfreithlon o bwerau'r Senedd, er mwyn mireinio'r pethau hynny fel eu bod yn addas i Gymru, yn rhywbeth sy'n ymrannu fel yr oedd yr Aelod Seneddol dros yr Amwythig mor amlwg yn fwriadol yn ei wneud, neu, yn wir, yn ddryslyd. Mae'r cyngor yng Nghymru yn glir: arhoswch gartref, amddiffynnwch y GIG, achubwch fywydau. Dylai pob Aelod Seneddol fod yn dweud wrth ddinasyddion Cymru beth yw'r sefyllfa yma yng Nghymru, ac nid yw'n ddim ond dryslyd pan fo pobl yn ceisio gwneud rhywbeth gwahanol.

[Inaudible.]—between Wales and England in Alyn and Deeside. There is, however, a street in my constituency called Boundary Lane, and residents on each side of that street are in either nation. For residents, the Prime Minister's statement on Sunday caused real confusion, particularly in the area of work. Residents who work in Wales are protected by social distancing in the workplace laws that your Government introduced; those who work in England are not. Will you join me, First Minister, in calling on Boris Johnson and the UK Government to introduce similar laws and rules to protect my constituents who work across the border in England?

[Anhyglyw.]—rhwng Cymru a Lloegr yn Alun a Glannau Dyfrdwy. Fodd bynnag, mae stryd yn fy etholaeth i o'r enw Boundary Lane, ac mae trigolion ar bob ochr i'r stryd honno yn y naill wlad neu'r llall. I'r trigolion, roedd datganiad y Prif Weinidog ddydd Sul yn achosi dryswch gwirioneddol, yn enwedig ym maes gwaith. Mae trigolion sy'n gweithio yng Nghymru yn cael eu hamddiffyn gan ddeddfau cadw pellter cymdeithasol yn y gweithle a gyflwynwyd gan eich Llywodraeth chi; nid yw hynny'n wir am y rhai hynny sy'n gweithio yn Lloegr. A wnewch chi ymuno â mi, Prif Weinidog, i alw ar Boris Johnson a Llywodraeth y DU i gyflwyno cyfreithiau a rheolau tebyg i amddiffyn fy etholwyr sy'n gweithio dros y ffin yn Lloegr?

I thank Jack Sargeant for that. Llywydd, we put the 2m rule into the regulations in Wales to give workers confidence that, if they were going to work, their employers would have taken all reasonable measures to protect their health and well-being, and the huge majority of employers in Wales do exactly that. I think having had that rule in the law here in Wales for weeks past gives us a head start in getting people back to work with the confidence that they need that their health and well-being is going to be protected. So, I think we did the right thing. I think that it has helped. I think that it would help in other parts too to have that rule there in the law, because it's one thing to encourage people to do something, another thing to give them confidence, in a time when people are fearful for their own safety and the safety of their families, that they can do the things they're being encouraged to do in a way that does not put them at risk. We've worked really hard here in Wales with our trade unions, with our employers and employer organisations, and I think that is paying dividends in allowing Welsh citizens to go back to work knowing they're safe, and people who live in Wales and work on the other side of our border are entitled to an equal level of insurance. 

Diolch i Jack Sargeant am hynna. Llywydd, fe wnaethom ni roi'r rheol 2 fetr yn y rheoliadau yng Nghymru i roi hyder i weithwyr, pe bydden nhw'n mynd i'r gwaith, y byddai eu cyflogwyr wedi cymryd pob cam rhesymol i warchod eu hiechyd a'u lles, ac mae'r mwyafrif helaeth o gyflogwyr yng Nghymru yn gwneud yn union hynny. Rwy'n credu bod y ffaith y bu gennym y rheol honno yn y gyfraith yma yng Nghymru dros y wythnosau diwethaf yn rhoi dechrau da i ni o ran cael pobl i fynd yn ôl i weithio gyda'r hyder sydd ei angen arnyn nhw i ddiogelu eu hiechyd a'u lles. Felly, rwy'n credu ein bod ni wedi gwneud y peth iawn. Rwy'n credu ei fod wedi helpu. Rwy'n credu y byddai'n helpu mewn rhannau eraill hefyd i gael y rheol honno yn y gyfraith, oherwydd mae'n un peth i annog pobl i wneud rhywbeth, a pheth arall i roi hyder iddyn nhw, mewn cyfnod pan fo pobl yn ofnus am eu diogelwch eu hunain a diogelwch eu teuluoedd, y gallan nhw wneud y pethau y maen nhw'n cael eu hannog i'w gwneud mewn ffordd nad yw'n eu rhoi nhw mewn perygl. Rydym ni wedi gweithio'n galed iawn yma yng Nghymru gyda'n hundebau llafur, gyda'n cyflogwyr a'n sefydliadau cyflogwyr, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n talu ar ei ganfed wrth alluogi dinasyddion Cymru i ddychwelyd i'r gwaith gan wybod eu bod yn ddiogel, a bod gan bobl sy'n byw yng Nghymru ac sy'n gweithio ar ochr arall ein ffin hawl i gael lefel gyfartal o sicrwydd.

14:45

Diolch i'r Prif Weinidog. Pwynt o drefn gan arweinydd Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.

I thank the First Minister. A point of order from the leader of Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.

Diolch, Llywydd. Earlier today, the Government published 'Test Trace Protect', probably, actually, one of the most important documents it's published so far as part of its policy around the virus. It was published at 13:22, so Members will not have had the opportunity, obviously, to study the document—eight pages long—in the depth that it requires. This will be our only opportunity today to scrutinise the Government and ask questions of the Minister in relation to this strategy for the next seven days, so I was wondering if you would consider, Llywydd, using the power that you have under section 12.18 of the Standing Orders to call a short break of half an hour so that Members can have the opportunity to read the document before they respond  to the health Minister's statement, or, alternatively, using the power that you have under section 12.17, to change the order of the statements today so we have the health Minister's statement later in the afternoon, once again giving Members the opportunity to read the strategy document first, so they can ask questions fully informed about the Government's policy.

Diolch, Llywydd. Yn gynharach heddiw, cyhoeddodd y Llywodraeth 'Profi Olrhain Diogelu', sydd, mae'n debyg, mewn gwirionedd, yn un o'r dogfennau pwysicaf y mae wedi'i chyhoeddi hyd yn hyn yn rhan o'i pholisi ynghylch y feirws. Fe'i cyhoeddwyd am 13:22, felly ni fydd yr Aelodau wedi cael y cyfle, yn amlwg, i astudio'r ddogfen—wyth tudalen o hyd—yn y manylder angenrheidiol. Hwn fydd ein hunig gyfle heddiw i graffu ar y Llywodraeth a gofyn cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog ynghylch y strategaeth hon am y saith diwrnod nesaf, felly tybed a fyddech yn ystyried, Llywydd, defnyddio'r pŵer sydd gennych chi o dan adran 12.18 o'r Rheolau Sefydlog i alw am seibiant byr o hanner awr er mwyn i Aelodau gael cyfle i ddarllen y ddogfen cyn ymateb i ddatganiad y Gweinidog Iechyd, neu, fel arall, gan ddefnyddio'r pŵer sydd gennych o dan adran 12.17, newid trefn y datganiadau heddiw fel y cawn ni ddatganiad y Gweinidog iechyd yn nes ymlaen yn y prynhawn, gan roi cyfle unwaith eto i Aelodau ddarllen y ddogfen strategaeth yn gyntaf, fel y gallan nhw ofyn cwestiynau am bolisi'r Llywodraeth gyda'r wybodaeth lawn yn eu meddiant.

Thank you for that point of order. As Members know, it is good practice to circulate statements in advance of the statements being given, and I appreciate that this is an important statement that we're about to hear, but I don't think it's appropriate at this time to be delaying that statement, so I hope that all Members' attention has been drawn by Adam Price to the document that was circulated at 13:22, and I'm sure that the health Minister will be making references to that during the statement. But it is, as I've said, good practice to give Members as much time to consider important information as is possible.

Diolch am y pwynt o drefn yna. Fel y gŵyr yr Aelodau, mae hi yn arfer da dosbarthu datganiadau cyn eu cyflwyno, ac rwy'n sylweddoli bod hwn yn ddatganiad pwysig yr ydym ar fin ei glywed, ond nid wyf yn credu ei bod hi'n briodol ar hyn o bryd i ohirio'r datganiad hwnnw, felly gobeithiaf y tynnwyd sylw'r holl Aelodau gan Adam Price at y ddogfen a ddosbarthwyd am 13:22, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog iechyd yn cyfeirio at hynny yn ystod y datganiad. Ond, fel y dywedais, arfer da yw rhoi cymaint o amser â phosib i Aelodau ystyried gwybodaeth bwysig.

3. Cwestiynau Amserol
3. Topical Questions

For now, then, we move on to the item of topical questions, but no topical questions were selected for today.

Am y tro, felly, symudwn ymlaen at yr eitem o gwestiynau amserol, ond ni ddewiswyd cwestiynau amserol ar gyfer heddiw.

4. Datganiad gan y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol: Coronafeirws (COVID-19)
4. Statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

And then we come to the item and the statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services on coronavirus, and I ask the health Minister to make his statement. Vaughan Gething.

Ac yna down at yr eitem a'r datganiad gan y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol ynghlych y coronafeirws, a gofynnaf i'r Gweinidog Iechyd wneud ei ddatganiad. Vaughan Gething.

Diolch, Llywydd. Members will know that I committed to provide regular updates about the COVID-19 developments here in Wales. We can see from the data that, thankfully, admissions to hospital, the number of people in critical care and the number of people who are sadly still losing their lives to the virus have been falling. We're not yet sufficiently far along the curve to be able to further lift the restrictions beyond the modest and cautious steps that the First Minister announced to the public on Friday, 8 May. As you heard, the Cabinet agreed those measures later on Thursday the seventh.

We must remain vigilant and disciplined in supporting the lockdown so we can continue to protect the NHS and to keep people safe. We have been clear in Wales that we must build on the good work that has been done to date, both by members of the public and of course by our NHS and social care staff. The 'stay home, protect the NHS and save lives' message is still very much at the centre of our strategy and approach here in Wales, and will remain so for, at the very least, the next three weeks. However, we recognise that there is a balance to be struck between the level of harm that COVID-19 is causing us both directly and indirectly.

Diolch, Llywydd. Bydd yr Aelodau'n gwybod fy mod wedi ymrwymo i roi diweddariadau rheolaidd am ddatblygiadau COVID-19 yma yng Nghymru. Gallwn weld o'r data, diolch byth, fod derbyniadau i'r ysbyty, nifer y bobl sydd mewn gofal critigol a nifer y bobl sydd, yn anffodus, yn dal i golli eu bywydau i'r feirws, wedi bod yn gostwng. Nid ydym ni eto'n ddigon pell ar hyd y gromlin i allu codi'r cyfyngiadau ymhellach y tu hwnt i'r camau cymedrol a gochelgar a gyhoeddodd y Prif Weinidog i'r cyhoedd ddydd Gwener, 8 Mai. Fel y clywsoch chi, cytunodd y Cabinet ar y mesurau hynny yn ddiweddarach ar ddydd Iau y seithfed.

Rhaid i ni barhau i fod yn wyliadwrus ac yn ddisgybledig o ran cefnogi'r cyfyngiadau symud fel y gallwn ni barhau i ddiogelu'r GIG a chadw pobl yn ddiogel. Rydym ni wedi bod yn glir yng Nghymru bod yn rhaid i ni adeiladu ar y gwaith da sydd wedi'i wneud hyd yma, gan aelodau o'r cyhoedd ac wrth gwrs gan ein GIG a staff gofal cymdeithasol. Mae'r neges 'Aros gartref. Diogelu’r GIG. Achub bywydau' yn dal i fod yn ganolog i'n strategaeth a'n hymagwedd ni yma yng Nghymru, a bydd yn parhau felly am y tair wythnos nesaf, o leiaf. Fodd bynnag, rydym yn cydnabod bod angen cael cydbwysedd rhwng faint o niwed y mae COVID-19 yn ei achosi i ni yn uniongyrchol ac yn anuniongyrchol.

I issued a written statement last week to alert Members to the new operating framework that I issued to assist NHS organisations to focus and plan in quarter 1. The framework described four levels of harm: harm from COVID-19 directly itself; harm from overwhelming the NHS and social care system; harm from reduction in non-COVID activity; and harm from wider societal actions that may flow from lockdown.

Now, I want to talk more about the harm from a reduction of non-COVID activity. There are still many people living with serious conditions that need diagnosis, treatment and ongoing care. We need to ensure that these people have the confidence that they can be treated safely. They need to know that they will continue to receive the same level of care and expertise for urgent treatment, and that it is safe to come in for procedures and diagnostics. Ultimately, though, this comes down to discussions between patients and their treating clinicians, with honest conversations about whether there are particular issues to be considered. And, at the end of it all, the patient can, of course, choose to follow or not follow the advice that is given. The reality is that striking the balance between COVID and non-COVID care must and will be done with the utmost care. But the message is clear: the NHS is there for you and it remains open for business.

I want to specifically recognise the harm from a reduction in non-COVID-19 activity for those people who require support from our mental health services during the pandemic. During these unprecedented times, we must ensure that we maintain parity between physical and mental health services. I know that the period of lockdown is difficult for many people, but for some people with mental health issues it can be particularly challenging. For some, it will have caused their condition to deteriorate at a time when they're separated from their normal support networks—family, friends and potentially work as well—and when access to non-emergency services will have changed. In response, we've worked with our partners to introduce a range of measures to provide support to those who may need help and reassurance. That includes tailored online information and access to telephone-based support.

A mental health COVID-19 monitoring tool has been developed within the service to ensure that we receive assurance in the Government that mental health services are operating safely and responding appropriately. Health boards are required to submit monitoring information on a weekly basis, which is considered by our mental health incident group. The information provides a live picture of the capacity of mental health services to enable us identify where additional support, advice or guidance is needed. While service models will have adapted during the pandemic, health boards and partners have reported that they've continued to meet mental health needs during this period.

NHS organisations will submit their quarter 1 plans next week, setting out how they can undertake non-COVID-19 activity. To support that work, Public Health Wales has worked together with the Welsh Government and the wider NHS to develop advice built on three strong pillars: the need to understand the current infection level and transmission rates for coronavirus in Wales; principles that are both grounded in scientific evidence and address the wider societal and economic impacts; and the need to test, trace and protect. I am pleased to announce that earlier today I published our 'Test Trace Protect' strategy. It sets out, over seven and a half pages, how we will work in close partnership with Public Health Wales, health boards and local authorities to deliver one of the biggest public health interventions of a generation.

Working together, we will enhance health surveillance in the community, undertake effective and extensive contact tracing, and support people to self-isolate where required to do so. To support this activity, we will require a testing programme of a different scale. We've significantly expanded our testing capacity in Wales over the last week, with laboratory capacity now available to process over 5,000 tests a day, and with testing centres now open around the country. We'll continue to increase this capacity in Wales over the coming weeks and months, within the range of 10,000 tests a day. That will enable us to test more people staying in hospitals and care settings, together with workers in other critical-worker settings.

To support our move to mass population testing, we'll draw on the testing programme operating across the UK. Now, NWIS, our NHS Wales Informatics Service, are working with Public Health Wales and NHSx—that's the joint unit that brings teams from the Department of Health and Social Care in the UK Government and NHS England and NHS Improvement to help deliver digital transformation and care in England; they're behind the development of the app that people have heard about in the Isle of Wight. Working together with NWIS and Public Health Wales, they're developing a data solution so that test results will be reported electronically back to Wales on an hourly basis, and that now means we can take our population share of the UK testing programme. It is crucial that this test record is able to be integrated directly into Welsh clinical record systems. Participation in the UK programme will significantly further increase the number of tests available and allow people to have tests delivered to their home for them to self-administer. 

In total, we could require as many as 20,000 tests a day to support diagnosis and treatment, population health surveillance, contact tracing and business continuity. That will, of course, enable key workers to return to work more quickly and safely. It will also, of course, depend upon the progress not only of the coronavirus but our phasing out of lockdown and further activity for members of the public. But this number is highly dependent on the spread of the disease, the prevalence of symptoms and the emerging evidence on how testing can best be deployed to prevent further infection. We'll continue to keep that evidence under review and to adapt our estimates of need accordingly. Combining our own capacity here in Wales with that of the UK puts us in a strong position to test as needed.

We have to learn to live with the virus that is circulating in our communities for many months to come. Adopting this approach is a way in which people can be told quickly of their exposure to the virus so that they, in turn, can limit their exposure to others. This will help us to prevent infection and track the virus as lockdown restrictions are eased.

Finally, the people of Wales are our most important partners. It is only through their willingness to do the right thing—to report their symptoms, to identify their contacts and to heed the advice when told to self-isolate—that we can break the chain of transmission. I want to thank the public for continuing to support lockdown arrangements. I have been reassured by the response both from those within the NHS, social care, policing and, indeed, the general public. They support the cautious and realistic approach that we're taking, and it's been widely welcomed.

I don't doubt for a moment, though, that it's difficult to continue with the restrictions that have been imposed. However, keeping these extraordinary measures in place, together with that widespread public support for them, remains the single most important factor in protecting the NHS and keeping our family, friends and loved ones safe. More than that, it makes the biggest difference in keeping people safe who we may never know and may never get the chance to know.

Diolch. I'm happy to take questions on the statement, Llywydd.

Cyhoeddais ddatganiad ysgrifenedig yr wythnos diwethaf i dynnu sylw'r Aelodau at y fframwaith gweithredu newydd a gyhoeddais i gynorthwyo sefydliadau'r GIG i ganolbwyntio a chynllunio yn chwarter 1. Disgrifiodd y fframwaith bedair lefel o niwed: niwed gan COVID-19 yn uniongyrchol ei hun; niwed yn sgil llethu'r GIG a'r system gofal cymdeithasol; niwed yn sgil lleihad mewn gweithgarwch nad yw'n gysylltiedig â COVID; a niwed yn sgil camau gweithredu cymdeithasol ehangach a allai ddeillio o'r cyfyngiadau symud.

Nawr, rwyf eisiau sôn mwy am y niwed a achosir gan leihad mewn gweithgarwch nad yw'n gysylltiedig â COVID. Mae llawer o bobl yn dal i fyw â chyflyrau difrifol ac mae angen diagnosis, triniaeth a gofal parhaus arnynt. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod gan y bobl hyn y ffydd y gallan nhw gael eu trin yn ddiogel. Mae angen iddyn nhw wybod y byddant yn parhau i gael yr un gofal ac arbenigedd ar gyfer triniaeth frys, a'i bod hi'n ddiogel dod i mewn ar gyfer triniaethau a chael diagnosis. Yn y pen draw, fodd bynnag, mae hyn yn ymwneud â thrafodaethau rhwng cleifion a'r clinigwyr a fydd yn eu trin, gyda sgyrsiau gonest ynghylch a oes materion penodol i'w hystyried. Ac, wedi gwneud hyn i gyd, gall y claf ddewis dilyn, wrth gwrs, neu beidio â dilyn y cyngor a roddir. Y gwir amdani yw bod yn rhaid taro'r cydbwysedd rhwng gofalu am bobl â COVID arnyn nhw a'r rhai nad oes COVID arnyn nhw gyda'r gofal mwyaf. Ond mae'r neges yn glir: mae'r GIG yno i chi ac mae'n parhau i gynnig gwasanaeth.

Rwyf eisiau cydnabod yn benodol y niwed a achosir gan leihad mewn gweithgarwch nad yw'n ymwneud â COVID i'r bobl hynny y mae arnyn nhw angen cymorth gan ein gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl yn ystod y pandemig. Yn ystod y cyfnod digyffelyb hwn, rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn trin y gwasanaethau iechyd corfforol a meddyliol yn gyfartal. Gwn fod y cyfnod o gyfyngiadau symud yn anodd i lawer o bobl, ond i rai pobl sydd â phroblemau iechyd meddwl gall fod yn arbennig o heriol. I rai, bydd wedi achosi i'w cyflwr ddirywio ar adeg pan fônt wedi'u gwahanu oddi wrth eu rhwydweithiau cymorth arferol— teulu, ffrindiau ac o bosib, gwaith hefyd—a phan nad yw hi'n bosib defnyddio gwasanaethau nad ydynt yn rhai brys yn ôl yr arfer. Mewn ymateb, rydym ni wedi gweithio gyda'n partneriaid i gyflwyno amrywiaeth o fesurau i gefnogi'r rhai y gallai fod angen cymorth a sicrwydd arnyn nhw. Mae hynny'n cynnwys gwybodaeth ar-lein wedi'i theilwra a chymorth ar y ffôn.

Mae offeryn monitro iechyd meddwl yn ystod y cyfnod COVID-19 wedi cael ei ddatblygu yn y gwasanaeth er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn cael sicrwydd yn y Llywodraeth bod gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl yn gweithredu'n ddiogel ac yn ymateb yn briodol. Mae'n ofynnol i fyrddau iechyd gyflwyno gwybodaeth fonitro bob wythnos, a chaiff hyn ei hystyried gan ein grŵp digwyddiadau iechyd meddwl. Mae'r wybodaeth yn rhoi darlun byw o gapasiti gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl i'n galluogi i weld lle mae angen cymorth, cyngor neu arweiniad ychwanegol. Er y bydd modelau gwasanaeth wedi addasu yn ystod y pandemig, mae byrddau iechyd a phartneriaid wedi dweud eu bod wedi parhau i ddiwallu anghenion iechyd meddwl yn ystod y cyfnod hwn.

Bydd sefydliadau'r GIG yn cyflwyno eu cynlluniau chwarter 1 yr wythnos nesaf, gan amlinellu sut y gallant ymgymryd â gweithgarwch nad yw'n ymwneud â COVID-19. Er mwyn cefnogi'r gwaith hwnnw, mae Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru wedi gweithio gyda Llywodraeth Cymru a'r GIG ehangach i ddatblygu cyngor sy'n seiliedig ar dair colofn gref: yr angen i ddeall lefel bresennol yr haint a chyfraddau trosglwyddo'r coronafeirws yng Nghymru; egwyddorion sy'n seiliedig ar dystiolaeth wyddonol ac sy'n mynd i'r afael â'r effeithiau cymdeithasol ac economaidd ehangach; a'r angen i brofi, olrhain a diogelu. Mae'n bleser gennyf gyhoeddi fy mod yn gynharach heddiw wedi cyhoeddi ein strategaeth 'Profi Olrhain Diogelu'. Mae'n amlinellu, dros saith tudalen a hanner, sut y byddwn yn cydweithio'n agos ag Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru, byrddau iechyd ac awdurdodau lleol i gyflawni un o'r ymyriadau mwyaf o ran iechyd y cyhoedd mewn cenhedlaeth.

Drwy weithio gyda'n gilydd, byddwn yn gwella gwyliadwriaeth iechyd yn y gymuned, yn cynnal systemau olrhain cyswllt effeithiol ac eang, ac yn cynorthwyo pobl i ynysu eu hunain lle bo angen. I gefnogi'r gweithgarwch hwn, bydd angen rhaglen brofi ar raddfa wahanol. Rydym wedi ehangu'n sylweddol ein gallu i brofi yng Nghymru yn ystod yr wythnos ddiwethaf, gyda labordai bellach yn gallu prosesu dros 5,000 o brofion y dydd, a chyda chanolfannau profi ar agor o amgylch y wlad erbyn hyn. Byddwn yn parhau i gynyddu'r gallu hwn yng Nghymru dros yr wythnosau a'r misoedd nesaf, o fewn yr ystod o 10,000 o brofion y dydd. Bydd hynny'n ein galluogi i brofi mwy o bobl sy'n aros mewn ysbytai a lleoliadau gofal, ynghyd â gweithwyr mewn lleoliadau eraill sy'n weithwyr hanfodol.

I gefnogi ein hymgyrch i brofi cyfraddau sylweddol o'r boblogaeth, byddwn yn defnyddio'r rhaglen brofi sydd ar waith ledled y DU. Nawr, mae NWIS, sef Gwasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru, yn gweithio gydag Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru a NHSx—sef yr uned ar y cyd sy'n dod â thimau o'r Adran Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol yn Llywodraeth y DU a GIG Lloegr a NHS Improvement i helpu i ddarparu gwasanaethau trawsnewid a gofal digidol yn Lloegr; nhw sy'n gyfrifol am ddatblygiad yr ap y mae pobl wedi clywed amdano ar Ynys Wyth. Gan weithio gyda Gwasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru ac Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru, maen nhw'n datblygu datrysiad data fel y caiff canlyniadau profion eu hadrodd yn ôl yn electronig i Gymru bob awr, a bellach mae hynny'n golygu y gallwn ni gymryd ein cyfran o'r boblogaeth o raglen brofi'r Deyrnas Unedig. Mae'n hanfodol ein bod yn gallu integreiddio'r cofnod prawf hwn yn uniongyrchol i systemau cofnodion clinigol Cymru. Bydd cymryd rhan yn rhaglen y DU yn cynyddu nifer y profion sydd ar gael yn sylweddol ac yn caniatáu i bobl gael profion wedi eu danfon i'w cartref er mwyn iddyn nhw brofi eu hunain.

At ei gilydd, gallem ofyn am gynifer â 20,000 o brofion y dydd i gefnogi diagnosis a thriniaeth, gwyliadwriaeth iechyd y boblogaeth, olrhain cyswllt a pharhad busnesau. Bydd hynny, wrth gwrs, yn galluogi gweithwyr allweddol i ddychwelyd i'r gwaith yn gynt ac yn fwy diogel. Bydd hefyd, wrth gwrs, yn dibynnu ar hynt, nid yn unig y coronafeirws ond ar y broses o godi'r cyfyngiadau symud yn raddol a gweithgarwch pellach i aelodau'r cyhoedd. Ond mae'r nifer hwn yn dibynnu'n fawr ar ledaeniad y clefyd, cyffredinolrwydd y symptomau a'r dystiolaeth sy'n dod i'r amlwg ynglŷn â sut orau y gellir defnyddio'r profion i atal heintiau pellach. Byddwn yn parhau i adolygu'r dystiolaeth honno ac addasu ein hamcangyfrifon o angen yn unol â hynny. Mae cyfuno ein capasiti ein hunain yma yng Nghymru ag un y DU yn ein rhoi mewn sefyllfa gref i brofi yn ôl yr angen.

Rhaid inni ddysgu byw gyda'r feirws sy'n cylchredeg yn ein cymunedau am fisoedd lawer i ddod. Mae mabwysiadu'r dull hwn yn ffordd i bobl gael gwybod yn gyflym bod y feirws arnyn nhw fel y gallan nhw, yn eu tro, gyfyngu ar eu cysylltiad ag eraill. Bydd hyn yn ein helpu i atal heintiau ac olrhain y feirws wrth i gyfyngiadau symud gael eu lliniaru.

Yn olaf, pobl Cymru yw ein partneriaid pwysicaf. Dim ond drwy eu parodrwydd i wneud y peth iawn—rhoi gwybod am eu symptomau, dweud â phwy y maen nhw wedi dod i gysylltiad a chymryd sylw o'r cyngor pan ddywedir wrthyn nhw i hunanynysu—y gallwn ni dorri'r gadwyn drosglwyddo. Hoffwn ddiolch i'r cyhoedd am barhau i gefnogi trefniadau'r cyfyngiadau symud. Mae ymateb y rhai o fewn y GIG, gofal cymdeithasol, plismona ac, yn wir, y cyhoedd yn gyffredinol wedi tawelu fy meddwl. Maen nhw'n cefnogi'r agwedd bwyllog a realistig yr ydym ni'n ei chymryd, ac mae wedi cael croeso eang.

Dydw i ddim yn amau am eiliad, fodd bynnag, nad yw hi'n anodd parhau â'r cyfyngiadau sydd wedi cael eu gosod. Fodd bynnag, cadw'r mesurau eithriadol hyn yn eu lle, ynghyd â'r gefnogaeth gyhoeddus eang sydd iddynt, yw'r ffactor pwysicaf o hyd o ran amddiffyn y GIG a chadw ein teulu, ein ffrindiau a'n hanwyliaid yn ddiogel. Yn fwy na hynny, mae'n gwneud y gwahaniaeth mwyaf o ran cadw pobl yn ddiogel na fyddwn ni fyth efallai yn eu hadnabod ac na chawn ni fyth efallai mo'r cyfle i'w hadnabod.

Diolch. Rwy'n hapus i gymryd cwestiynau ar y datganiad, Llywydd.

14:55

Minister, I'd like to welcome the statement, and I am pleased to see the test, trace and protect initiative being launched today. However, I do have concerns. As you know, I would have put a dedicated team with a very visible lead in place, and I'd be really grateful if you could tell me whether or not you do have an entire department or group that is literally focused on this, because it's so important that we get testing right to ensure access for all, to ensure prompt delivery of test results, to show that everyone has the same ambition and targets.

As we heard from the very shambolic evidence given to us by the head of Public Health Wales, there was a distinct divergence in targets between Welsh Government and the Public Health Wales ambition. We need to ensure appropriate laboratory capacity to ensure the data and results get to the right people. And we need all of this because we need to get safely out of lockdown. So, are you confident that Public Health Wales will be capable of managing the test, trace and protect programme?

Your ambition to have 10,000 tests—you don't say by when; it just says 'over weeks and months'. Is this an actual target, and is it a target that all of the people working in the health services cleave to? 

In terms of health surveillance work by Public Health Wales, are you confident that this will be able to be done in an accurate way given the problems we've had over the last few weeks with data coming out of health boards?

In terms of the contact tracing element, have you more thought about how many people would be needed to do this? You talk about 1,000 and I note that Scotland want about 2,000 for a population of 5.5 million to our 3 million. Is that what you're basing it on? I'd be interested to know that, because we know how difficult it is to get people into the right roles.

And are you really confident that NHS Informatics, not necessarily the most stellar organisation, are able to deliver a single digital platform for contact tracing in the time required? Can you tell us now, once you put the proximity tracing in place, will the follow up after the proximity tracing be the same?

And finally, on this suite of questions, may I ask about the protect element? You talk about people having to self-isolate maybe multiple times. I absolutely understand that and the reasons why, but what support will be put in place for those people, because if they've got caring responsibilities, children trying to go to school, if they live in an environment like a big block of flats, they may constantly be being asked to self-isolate, and this is going to damage their mental health even further?

Gweinidog, hoffwn groesawu'r datganiad, ac rwyf yn falch o weld cyhoeddi'r fenter profi, olrhain a diogelu heddiw. Fodd bynnag, mae gennyf bryderon. Fel y gwyddoch chi, buaswn innau wedi sefydlu tîm penodol gydag arweinydd amlwg iawn, a byddwn yn ddiolchgar iawn pe baech yn dweud wrthyf a oes gennych chi adran neu grŵp cyfan sy'n canolbwyntio'n llythrennol ar hyn, gan ei bod hi mor bwysig ein bod ni'n profi'n briodol i sicrhau y gall bawb elwa ar hynny, i sicrhau y caiff canlyniadau profion eu darparu'n brydlon, i ddangos bod gan bawb yr un uchelgais a thargedau.

Fel y clywsom ni o'r dystiolaeth anhrefnus iawn a roddwyd i ni gan bennaeth Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru, roedd gwahaniaeth pendant rhwng targedau Llywodraeth Cymru ac uchelgais Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru. Mae angen i ni sicrhau bod gallu priodol gan y labordai i sicrhau y rhoddir y data a'r canlyniadau i'r bobl gywir. Ac mae angen hyn i gyd arnom ni oherwydd mae angen i ni godi'r cyfyngiadau symud yn ddiogel. Felly, a ydych chi'n ffyddiog y gall Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru reoli'r rhaglen profi, olrhain a diogelu?

Eich uchelgais i gael 10,000 o brofion—dydych chi ddim yn dweud erbyn pryd; nid yw ond yn dweud 'dros wythnosau a misoedd'. A yw hyn yn darged gwirioneddol, ac a yw'n darged y mae'r holl bobl sy'n gweithio yn y gwasanaethau iechyd yn ymgyrraedd tuag ato?

O ran y gwaith y mae Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn ei wneud i gadw golwg ar iechyd bobl, a ydych chi'n ffyddiog y bydd modd gwneud hyn mewn ffordd gywir o ystyried y problemau a gawsom ni dros yr wythnosau diwethaf gyda'r data y mae byrddau iechyd wedi bod yn eu rhyddhau?

O ran yr elfen olrhain cyswllt, a ydych chi wedi meddwl mwy am faint o bobl y byddai eu hangen i wneud hyn? Rydych chi'n sôn am 1,000 a sylwaf fod yr Alban eisiau tua 2,000 ar gyfer poblogaeth o 5.5 miliwn o'i gymharu â'n 3 miliwn ni. Ai ar hyn yr ydych chi yn ei seilio? Byddai gennyf ddiddordeb gwybod hynny, oherwydd gwyddom mor anodd yw cael pobl i'r swyddogaethau cywir.

Ac a ydych chi'n wirioneddol ffyddiog y gall Gwasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru, nid o reidrwydd y sefydliad gorau yn y byd, ddarparu un cyfrwng digidol ar gyfer olrhain cyswllt yn yr amser sydd ei angen? A allwch chi ddweud wrthym ni nawr, ar ôl ichi ddechrau olrhain agosatrwydd, y bydd y dilyniant ar ôl yr olrhain agosatrwydd yr un fath?

Ac yn olaf, yn y gyfres hon o gwestiynau, a gaf i ofyn am yr elfen ddiogelu? Rydych chi'n sôn am bobl yn gorfod hunanynysu efallai sawl gwaith. Rwy'n deall hynny'n llwyr a'r rhesymau pam, ond pa gymorth a fydd ar gael ar gyfer y bobl hynny, oherwydd os oes ganddyn nhw gyfrifoldebau gofalu, plant yn ceisio mynd i'r ysgol, os ydyn nhw'n byw mewn amgylchedd fel bloc mawr o fflatiau, efallai y gofynnir iddyn nhw yn gyson i hunanynysu, a bydd hyn yn niweidio eu hiechyd meddwl yn fwy eto?

15:00

Thank you to Angela Burns for the series of questions. I'll try to go through them briefly. Yes, we do have a director, a senior civil servant, who's been empowered with oversight, not just within the Government but the Welsh Government needs to co-ordinate and lead the system to make sure that the test, trace, protect programme actually works and that everyone buys into it and understands the varying roles and responsibilities that the different parts of our system will have.

So, that's going to draw together right across not just Public Health Wales, but our other trusts, our health boards and local government, and that is working well. I've been really encouraged by the way that health boards and local government have been working together on the planning phase for wanting to move ahead and to deliver this programme. But Public Health Wales won't be managing the whole programme. They've provided lots of the ideas and some of the clinical oversight. They've provided the public health evidence about what we need to do in overall terms. This is now the operational end of it, and they're not going to lead the operational end of the system. That's again why we've empowered a senior civil servant to lead that, to hold the ring, and, of course, I've got ultimate oversight for what is taking place. 

On the 10,000 or so tests we expect to have, I want those to be able to be in place for the end of May. That's set out in the 'Test Trace Protect' document. That's when I want us to have that sort of capacity in place. As I say, that's a combination of the capacity we already have in place in Wales together with a share of the UK-wide arrangements. So, I've got a reasonable measure of confidence that that will be in place for the end of May, when we want to be able to potentially roll this out on a wider basis.

But our use of those tests, of course, will depend on where we are with the amount of circulation that is taking place from the public. If there's a further release in lockdown measures and people circulate more freely, there's a potential potential for more contacts, even with the social distancing rules in place. So, at each stage, we may need more tests, and in particular as we get up to the autumn period of time where flu and colds and other illnesses that are often like coronavirus symptoms are in wider circulation as well. That's where we've got to forecast and anticipate a change in demand. 

That also comes back to your point about staff as well, because the initial figure in the document of 1,000 staff comes from plans that health boards and local government are already working together on, and I'm really grateful for the way that the local government family across Wales, of varying political allegiances, have worked together with health boards on planning for this. We're making use of the resource that exists in local government—the staff who aren't necessarily at work. Some of them want more things to do and this is an area where we can help those people to work, and including people in their own homes depending on the digital solution.

So, that's the initial point, but, again, we may not need 1,000 people sat waiting for calls on 1 June, but that's the figure that we're working to with the sort of staff numbers we're going to need. And you're right—it is a rough approximation of the numbers in Scotland, but we'll have to judge the evidence on the extent of the programme and what we're going to need and whether we need more people. That's an active conversation that local government, the health service and, indeed, my officials are having. 

On your point about NWIS, NWIS aren't looking to build their own system within a few weeks; it's actually about what they're procuring and the work they're helping to lead on, but to make sure that that digital system works and is able to integrate with other systems we have in Wales. So, they've got a really important role in helping us get that right.

It's also important, I think, to recognise what I said earlier about the UK Government testing programme. We're now in a position where the data transfer issues are being resolved, and that gives me a much greater amount of comfort, because previously we could have had tests but not understood what the results were, so the utility of them would have been really, really limited. We're now in a much better position, and so that will be useful.

We've got the same issues on the NHSX app that's being developed as well, because if it works, if we resolve all the privacy issues about who owns the data and how it's resolved—and I think we're in the right sort of place on that—then, that will help us in terms of contact tracing, and if that works from the trial, then I'd want Wales to be able to take advantage of that, but, again, to make sure those data transfer issues are resolved.

On the conversation with local government and the wider voluntary sector on supporting people, that is a conversation we're starting. I've had a very constructive series of rapid conversations—and this is an extremely rapid development of policy, and putting it into action, that we're undergoing—but they recognise, as we do, that if we're going to have a group of people, who are being supported now, and they go out into further circulation, doing more things in the future, if we then ask them to self-isolate again, they'll need to be supported. We'll need to have mobile teams around those people who may need to isolate more than once. But the purpose of this really matters. There's harm caused by being in lockdown, and there's potential harm being caused if we ask people to self-isolate again in the future. But it's to balance that harm, and as you heard in the First Minister's statement and questions afterwards, if the R value goes up to 1.1 over a three-month period, that's thousands of extra deaths that will take place in Wales, and we have to bear in mind that difficult balance we have to take. But I certainly won't take a cavalier attitude that could potentially risk the lives of thousands of Welsh citizens, and I will of course continue to keep Members updated.

Diolch i Angela Burns am y gyfres o gwestiynau. Ceisiaf eu hateb i gyd yn fyr. Oes, mae gennym ni gyfarwyddwr, uwch was sifil, sydd â'r grym i oruchwylio, nid yn unig o fewn y Llywodraeth ond mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru gydlynu ac arwain y system i sicrhau bod y rhaglen profi, olrhain, diogelu yn gweithio mewn gwirionedd a bod pawb yn ymrwymo iddi ac yn deall y swyddogaethau a'r cyfrifoldebau amrywiol a fydd gan wahanol rannau ein system.

Felly, mae hynny'n mynd i ddwyn ynghyd nid yn unig Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru, ond ein hymddiriedolaethau eraill, ein byrddau iechyd a llywodraeth leol, ac mae hynny'n gweithio'n dda. Rwyf wedi fy nghalonogi'n fawr gan y ffordd y mae byrddau iechyd a llywodraeth leol wedi bod yn gweithio gyda'i gilydd ar y cam cynllunio ar gyfer symud ymlaen a chyflawni'r rhaglen hon. Ond ni fydd Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn rheoli'r rhaglen gyfan. Maen nhw wedi darparu llawer o'r syniadau a pheth o'r trosolwg clinigol. Maen nhw wedi darparu'r dystiolaeth o ran iechyd y cyhoedd am yr hyn y mae angen i ni ei wneud yn gyffredinol. Dyma'r agwedd weithredol nawr, ac nid nhw fydd yn arwain agwedd weithredol y system. Dyna eto pam yr ydym wedi gofyn i uwch was sifil arwain hynny, i fod yn gyfrifol am hynny ac, wrth gwrs, fi yn y pendraw sy'n goruchwylio yr hyn sy'n digwydd.

O ran yr oddeutu 10,000 o brofion yr ydym yn disgwyl eu cael, rwyf eisiau i'r rheini fod ar gael erbyn diwedd mis Mai. Mae hynny wedi'i nodi yn y ddogfen 'Profi Olrhain Diogelu'. Dyna pryd yr wyf eisiau i ni gael y math hwnnw o allu. Fel y dywedaf, mae hynny'n gyfuniad o'r gallu sydd gennym ni eisoes yng Nghymru ynghyd â chyfran o'r trefniadau ar gyfer y DU gyfan. Felly, rwy'n bur ffyddiog y bydd hynny ar waith erbyn diwedd mis Mai, pan fyddwn ni eisiau cyflwyno hyn ar sail ehangach.

Ond bydd ein defnydd o'r profion hynny, wrth gwrs, yn dibynnu ar le yr ydym ni arni o ran faint y mae'r cyhoedd yn symud o gwmpas. Os oes llacio pellach ar y cyfyngiadau symud a phobl yn symud yn fwy rhydd, mae'n bosib y bydd mwy o gyswllt, hyd yn oed gyda'r rheolau cadw pellter cymdeithasol ar waith. Felly, ar bob cam, efallai y bydd angen mwy o brofion arnom ni, ac yn enwedig wrth inni gyrraedd cyfnod yr hydref pan fydd y ffliw ac annwyd a mathau eraill o salwch sy'n aml yn debyg i symptomau coronafeirws yn cylchredeg yn ehangach hefyd. Dyna pryd y mae'n rhaid i ni ragdybio a rhagweld newid yn y galw. 

Daw hynny'n ôl at eich sylw am staff hefyd, oherwydd mae'r ffigur cychwynnol yn y ddogfen o 1,000 o staff yn dod o gynlluniau y mae byrddau iechyd a llywodraeth leol eisoes yn cydweithio arnynt, ac rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn am y ffordd y mae'r awdurdodau lleol ar draws Cymru, o wahanol deyrngarwch gwleidyddol, wedi gweithio gyda byrddau iechyd ar gynllunio ar gyfer hyn. Rydym ni'n defnyddio'r adnoddau sy'n bodoli mewn llywodraeth leol—y staff nad ydyn nhw o anghenraid yn gweithio. Mae rhai ohonyn nhw eisiau mwy o bethau i'w gwneud ac mae hwn yn faes lle gallwn ni helpu'r bobl hynny i weithio, a chynnwys pobl yn eu cartrefi eu hunain yn dibynnu ar yr ateb digidol.

Felly, dyna'r sylw cychwynnol, ond, unwaith eto, efallai na fydd angen 1,000 o bobl yn aros am alwadau ar 1 Mehefin arnom ni, ond dyna'r ffigur yr ydym wedi ei nodi gyda'r math o niferoedd staff y bydd eu hangen arnom ni. Ac rydych chi'n iawn—mae'n amcan bras o'r niferoedd yn yr Alban, ond bydd yn rhaid i ni farnu'r dystiolaeth ar hyd a lled y rhaglen a'r hyn y byddwn ni ei angen a pha un a oes angen mwy o bobl arnom ni. Mae honno'n sgwrs weithredol y mae llywodraeth leol, y gwasanaeth iechyd ac, yn wir, fy swyddogion yn ei chael. 

O ran eich sylw am Wasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru, nid yw'r gwasanaeth yn bwriadu adeiladu ei systemau ei hun o fewn ychydig wythnosau; mae'n ymwneud mewn gwirionedd â'r hyn y maen nhw'n ei gaffael a'r gwaith y maen nhw'n helpu i arwain arno, ond i sicrhau bod y system ddigidol honno'n gweithio ac yn gallu integreiddio â systemau eraill sydd gennym ni yng Nghymru. Felly, mae ganddyn nhw swyddogaeth bwysig iawn yn ein helpu i wneud hynny'n iawn.

Mae hi hefyd yn bwysig, rwy'n credu, i gydnabod yr hyn a ddywedais yn gynharach am raglen brofi Llywodraeth y DU. Rydym ni bellach mewn sefyllfa lle mae'r materion trosglwyddo data yn cael eu datrys, ac mae hynny'n rhoi llawer mwy o gysur i mi, oherwydd o'r blaen gallem fod wedi cael profion ond heb ddeall beth oedd y canlyniadau, felly bydden nhw wedi bod yn gyfyngedig iawn, iawn o ran eu defnyddioldeb. Rydym ni bellach mewn sefyllfa well o lawer, ac felly bydd hynny'n ddefnyddiol.

Mae gennym yr un problemau gyda'r ap NHSX sy'n cael ei ddatblygu hefyd, oherwydd os yw'n gweithio, os byddwn yn datrys yr holl faterion preifatrwydd ynglŷn â phwy sy'n berchen ar y data a sut y caiff hynny ei ddatrys—ac rwy'n credu ein bod yn weddol agos ati yn hynny o beth, yna, byddwn eisiau i Gymru allu manteisio ar hynny, ond, unwaith eto, sicrhau y caiff y problemau trosglwyddo data hynny eu datrys.

O ran y sgwrs â llywodraeth leol a'r sector gwirfoddol ehangach am gefnogi pobl, mae honno yn sgwrs yr ydym yn ei dechrau. Rwyf wedi cael cyfres adeiladol iawn o sgyrsiau cyflym—ac mae hwn yn ddatblygiad polisi cyflym iawn, ynghyd â'r gwaith o'i roi ar waith, yr ydym yn ymdrin ag ef—ond maen nhw yn cydnabod, fel y gwnawn ni, os bydd gennym ni grŵp o bobl sy'n cael eu cefnogi nawr, a'u bod yn cylchredeg yn ehangach, yn gwneud mwy o bethau yn y dyfodol, os byddwn ni wedyn yn gofyn iddyn nhw hunanynysu eto, bydd angen eu cefnogi. Bydd angen i ni gael timau symudol i gynorthwyo'r bobl hynny y gall fod angen iddyn nhw ynysu fwy nag unwaith. Ond mae diben hyn yn wirioneddol bwysig. Mae niwed yn cael ei achosi drwy'r cyfyngiadau symud, a bydd niwed posib yn cael ei achosi os byddwn yn gofyn i bobl hunanynysu eto yn y dyfodol. Ond mae a wnelo hynny â chydbwyso'r niwed hwnnw, ac fel y clywsoch chi yn natganiad a chwestiynau'r Prif Weinidog wedyn, os aiff y gwerth R i fyny i 1.1 dros gyfnod o dri mis, dyna filoedd o farwolaethau ychwanegol a fydd yn digwydd yng Nghymru, a rhaid inni gadw mewn cof y cydbwysedd anodd y mae'n rhaid i ni ei tharo. Ond yn sicr, ni fyddaf yn cymryd agwedd ddi-hid a allai beryglu bywydau miloedd o ddinasyddion Cymru, a byddaf wrth gwrs yn parhau i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Aelodau.

15:05

Thank you for that. So, just for clarity's sake, I want to confirm that it's 10,000 tests by the end of May, because your document says,

'We will continue to increase this capacity over the coming weeks and months, potentially to as many as 10,000 tests a day',

and I think we just need that clarity, given the shambles we've seen over the last few weeks.

I'd like to just turn quickly to non-COVID harms, and particularly to the diagnosis and treatment of critical conditions such as cancer. You mention the non-COVID harms in your statement. Now, we were already behind on so many metrics before the pandemic. People are contacting me because they need investigative treatment, they can't get it, they think they have cancer, or they've been told they might have cancer. They're really worried, and they see that hospitals are under less pressure than we all thought that they would be, and so these people are suffering excruciating mental torment, not sure what's going on and when they can get that treatment.

I understand the health boards are working on this, but when will services start? Can you give us a rough time frame? Are we talking a couple of weeks or a couple of months? And can we restart the screening programme, such as for breast cancer, because that's not hospital based—that's a mobile unit? Can we use the mobile units of organisations such as Tenovus to actually give and to administer treatments? Because, again, those kinds of areas should be easy to keep as green zones. What plans do you have to cope with the backlog, and how do you plan to engage with the public to get them to come back into these vital services for the treatment that they so desperately need?

Diolch am hynna. Felly, dim ond er mwyn eglurder, rwyf eisiau cadarnhau mai'r nifer yw 10,000 o brofion erbyn diwedd Mai, oherwydd dywed eich dogfen:

Byddwn yn parhau i gynyddu'r gallu hwn dros yr wythnosau a'r misoedd i ddod, o bosibl i gynifer â 10,000 o brofion y dydd,

ac rwy'n credu bod angen yr eglurder hwnnw arnom ni, o ystyried y llanast yr ydym ni wedi'i weld dros yr wythnosau diwethaf.

Hoffwn droi yn gyflym at achosion o niwed nad ydynt yn gysylltiedig â COVID, ac yn enwedig at ddiagnosis a thrin cyflyrau critigol fel canser. Rydych chi'n sôn am achosion o niwed nad ydynt yn gysylltiedig â COVID yn eich datganiad. Nawr, roeddem ni eisoes ar ei hôl hi ar gynifer o agweddau cyn y pandemig. Mae pobl yn cysylltu â mi oherwydd bod angen triniaeth ymchwiliol arnyn nhw, ni allan nhw ei chael, maen nhw'n meddwl bod canser arnyn nhw, neu maen nhw wedi cael gwybod efallai bod canser arnyn nhw. Maen nhw'n poeni'n fawr, ac maen nhw'n gweld bod ysbytai dan lai o bwysau nag yr oeddem ni i gyd yn credu y bydden nhw, ac felly mae'r bobl hyn yn dioddef poen meddwl dirdynnol, ddim yn siŵr beth sy'n digwydd a phryd y gallan nhw gael y driniaeth honno.

Deallaf fod y byrddau iechyd yn gweithio ar hyn, ond pryd fydd y gwasanaethau'n dechrau? A allwch chi roi amserlen fras inni? A ydym yn siarad am ychydig wythnosau neu ychydig o fisoedd? Ac a allwn ni ailgychwyn y rhaglen sgrinio, megis ar gyfer canser y fron, gan nad yw hynny'n digwydd mewn ysbytai—uned symudol yw honno? A allwn ni ddefnyddio unedau symudol sefydliadau fel Tenovus i roi a gweinyddu triniaethau mewn gwirionedd? Oherwydd, unwaith eto, dylai'r mathau hynny o feysydd fod yn hawdd eu cadw fel parthau gwyrdd. Pa gynlluniau sydd gennych chi i ymdopi â'r gwaith sydd wedi cronni, a sut ydych chi'n bwriadu ymgysylltu â'r cyhoedd i sicrhau eu bod yn dychwelyd at y gwasanaethau hanfodol hyn i gael y driniaeth y mae ei hangen yn ddirfawr arnyn nhw?

Yes. Thank you for the follow-up questions. On cancer, actually, we had better waiting times relative to England before lockdown took place and, of course, we'd also introduced the new single cancer pathway, which is a more honest measure of waits within the system, and it's been widely welcomed both by clinicians and the campaigning third sector. So, actually, on cancer, we're in, relatively, a better position in many ways than over the border in England, particularly given the fact that in Wales, as a poorer, older country, you'd normally expect cancer outcomes to be markedly different and more adverse in Wales. So, actually, we were in a better position at the start, but I don't want to lose sight of the fact that there are some people who are not coming into our cancer services, even where there's an urgent need. Cancer services never stop. The urgent need never stops. What we've seen, though, is a drop-off in some of the referrals in and a drop-off in the number of people attending, and that is a choice that people are actively making. I've had conversations with NHS chairs and chief executives, and they've had their clinicians actively speak with people to try to reassure them that the system is safe to treat them, but people are still fearful and are pausing or postponing their own treatments. Now, that's part of the point about wanting to keep on reassuring the public that we're doing this work, we want people to come in, and, in the wider restart of our system, including the screening service that is actively under consideration, there are things that I'm looking for, just as Members are as well, because those urgent care needs that have been paused over a period of time, well, that is building up need that isn't going away of its own accord.

That's why the operating plans for the first quarter will be important, and I fully expect to update the Chamber and the committee again on those plans as they're being developed, because, in terms of the balance of harm, some of the things that I've been particularly aware of and concerned about over the past weeks are the figures and information that we've seen.

So, I can give you a very clear reassurance that urgent cancer care services have not stopped; they're still available today. We want people to use them, but we need to build the confidence of the public to use them, which I think was Angela Burns's final point, and that's why I think statements from myself, from the NHS Wales chief executive and, indeed, clinicians across the country encouraging people to use our services will be really important in a consistent way to rebuild public confidence, to make sure that this treatment really can make a difference in limiting harm in the future, and that people have the confidence to come and use them, because the NHS, as I said in my statement, is open for business.

Ie. Diolch am y cwestiynau dilynol. O ran canser, a dweud y gwir, roedd gennym ni amseroedd aros gwell o'u cymharu â Lloegr cyn cyflwyno'r cyfyngiadau symud, ac, wrth gwrs, byddem ni hefyd wedi cyflwyno'r llwybr canser sengl newydd, sy'n fesur mwy gonest o'r amseroedd aros yn y system, ac fe groesawyd hynny yn eang gan glinigwyr a'r trydydd sector fu'n ymgyrchu am hynny. Felly, mewn gwirionedd, o ran canser, rydym ni mewn gwell sefyllfa, mewn cymhariaeth, mewn llawer o ffyrdd na thros y ffin yn Lloegr, yn enwedig o ystyried y ffaith, fel gwlad dlotach gyda mwy o bobl oedrannus, y byddech fel arfer yn disgwyl i ganlyniadau canser fod yn dra gwahanol ac yn fwy anffafriol yng Nghymru. Felly, mewn gwirionedd, roeddem ni mewn gwell sefyllfa ar y dechrau, ond nid wyf eisiau colli golwg ar y ffaith bod rhai pobl nad ydyn nhw yn dod i'n gwasanaethau canser, hyd yn oed pan fo angen dybryd. Nid yw gwasanaethau canser byth yn dod i ben. Nid yw'r angen brys byth yn peidio. Yr hyn yr ydym ni wedi'i weld, fodd bynnag, yw gostyngiad mewn rhai o'r atgyfeiriadau a gostyngiad yn nifer y bobl sy'n mynychu, ac mae hynny'n ddewis y mae pobl yn ei wneud. Rwyf wedi cael sgyrsiau gyda chadeiryddion a phrif weithredwyr y GIG, ac mae eu clinigwyr wedi mynd ati i siarad â phobl i geisio tawelu eu meddyliau drwy bwysleisio bod y system yn ddiogel i'w trin nhw, ond mae pobl yn dal i ofni ac yn oedi neu'n gohirio eu triniaethau eu hunain. Nawr, mae hynny'n rhan o'r sylw ynglŷn â bod eisiau parhau i dawelu meddyliau'r cyhoedd ein bod yn gwneud y gwaith hwn, rydym ni eisiau i bobl ddod, ac, wrth ailgychwyn ein system yn ehangach, gan gynnwys y gwasanaeth sgrinio y mae ystyriaeth ddwys i'w ailgychwyn ar hyn o bryd, mae pethau yr wyf yn chwilio amdanynt, yn union fel y mae'r Aelodau hefyd, oherwydd yr anghenion gofal brys hynny sydd wedi eu gohirio dros gyfnod o amser, wel, mae hynny'n creu'r angen nad yw'n cilio ohono'i hun.

Dyna pam y bydd y cynlluniau gweithredu ar gyfer y chwarter cyntaf yn bwysig, ac rwy'n llwyr ddisgwyl rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Siambr a'r pwyllgor eto am y cynlluniau hynny wrth iddynt gael eu datblygu, oherwydd, o ran cydbwysedd y niwed, rhai o'r pethau yr wyf wedi bod yn arbennig o ymwybodol ohonyn nhw ac yn pryderu amdanyn nhw dros yr wythnosau diwethaf yw'r ffigurau a'r wybodaeth a welsom ni.

Felly, gallaf eich sicrhau'n glir iawn nad yw gwasanaethau gofal canser brys wedi dod i ben; maen nhw'n dal ar gael heddiw. Rydym ni eisiau i bobl eu defnyddio, ond mae angen inni feithrin hyder y cyhoedd i'w defnyddio, sef sylw olaf Angela Burns rwy'n credu, a dyna pam yr wyf yn credu y bydd datganiadau gennyf fi, gan Brif Weithredwr GIG Cymru ac, yn wir, gan glinigwyr ledled y wlad yn annog pobl i ddefnyddio ein gwasanaethau, yn bwysig iawn mewn ffordd gyson i ailennyn hyder y cyhoedd, i wneud yn siŵr y gall y driniaeth hon wneud gwahaniaeth mewn gwirionedd o ran cyfyngu ar niwed yn y dyfodol, a bod gan bobl yr hyder i ddod i'w defnyddio, oherwydd mae'r GIG, fel y dywedais yn fy natganiad, yn parhau i weithredu. 

15:10

I'd like to start with the 'Test Trace Protect' document and thank the Minister for its publication. It's useful because it adds to our sum of knowledge about what Government is trying to achieve, but I think a detailed plan for testing, tracing and isolating was long overdue, and I think it remains, unfortunately, long overdue. What we have here is largely a statement of principle that few would disagree with, in reality: that having a test and trace strategy is vital in the battle against coronavirus and that it will need to bring lots of different partners together to deliver it.

We all, surely, hope to be able to start moving towards significantly lifting restrictions in the not-too-distant future. That's what we all hope for, but we can't start thinking of significantly lifting lockdown restrictions before we have a robust test and trace plan, and I don't think this can be described as anything like a robust, comprehensive or detailed plan, so we'll wait for that.

The document mentions, as we heard, potentially, the need for 10,000 tests a day—it's clear on that—double the current capacity that we know has taken a very long time to reach, yet Public Health Wales suggest the range of numbers of symptomatic people you may have to test is between 7,500 and 17,000. Surely, that's what we should be aiming for. There is reference to 20,000 later in the paper, but it's very unclear from the document what that refers to. I think you may have made it a bit clearer in your oral statement, but, in terms of the document itself, it's very unclear.

It's not just about the numbers, it's about how you process those tests and go about the tracing. You talk of easy and rapid access to testing. How quick do we need—how rapid does it need to be in order to be effective? What's the local level of access to all our communities going to be to this, given that we only have a certain number of mass testing centres?

A strategy, at the end of the day, is only as good as the implementation plan that we need to put it into action, and there's no detailed plan here that I can see to put the already widely accepted principles into practice. So, when can we expect that strategy that we have to turn into something that can get us ready to actually lift restrictions, not just talk about it in abstract terms?

Hoffwn ddechrau gyda'r ddogfen 'Profi Olrhain Diogelu' a diolch i'r Gweinidog am ei chyhoeddi. Mae'n ddefnyddiol gan ei bod yn ychwanegu at ein gwybodaeth am yr hyn y mae'r Llywodraeth yn ceisio ei gyflawni, ond rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n hen bryd cael cynllun manwl ar gyfer profi, olrhain ac ynysu, ac rwy'n credu ei bod fel yna o hyd, yn anffodus. Yr hyn sydd gennym ni yn y fan yma yn bennaf yw datganiad o egwyddor na fyddai llawer yn anghytuno ag ef, mewn gwirionedd: bod cael strategaeth profi ac olrhain yn hanfodol yn y frwydr yn erbyn y coronafeirws ac y bydd angen dod â llawer o wahanol bartneriaid at ei gilydd i'w chyflawni.

Rydym ni i gyd, siawns, yn gobeithio gallu dechrau symud tuag at godi'r cyfyngiadau'n sylweddol yn y dyfodol gweddol agos. Dyna'r hyn yr ydym ni i gyd yn gobeithio amdano, ond ni allwn ni ddechrau meddwl am godi'r cyfyngiadau symud cyn bod gennym ni gynllun profi ac olrhain cadarn, a dydw i ddim yn credu y gellir disgrifio hwn fel dim byd tebyg i gynllun cadarn, cynhwysfawr na manwl, felly rydym ni'n aros am hwnnw.

Mae'r ddogfen yn sôn, fel y clywsom ni, o bosib, am yr angen am 10,000 o brofion y dydd—mae'n glir ynghylch hynny—ddwywaith y gallu presennol y gwyddom ei fod wedi cymryd amser maith i'w gyrraedd, ac eto mae Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn awgrymu bod ystod y nifer o bobl â symptomau y mae'n bosib y bydd yn rhaid i chi eu profi rhwng 7,500 a 17,000. Heb os nac oni bai at hynny y dylem ni fod yn anelu. Mae cyfeiriad at 20,000 yn ddiweddarach yn y papur, ond mae'n aneglur iawn o'r ddogfen at beth y mae hynny'n cyfeirio. Rwy'n credu efallai i chi wneud hynny ychydig yn gliriach yn eich datganiad llafar, ond, o ran y ddogfen ei hun, mae'n aneglur iawn.

Nid yw'n ymwneud â'r niferoedd yn unig, mae'n ymwneud â sut yr ydych chi'n prosesu'r profion hynny ac yn mynd ati i olrhain. Rydych chi'n sôn am y gallu i gael prawf yn gyflym ac yn rhwydd. Pa mor gyflym—pa mor gyflym y mae angen iddo fod er mwyn bod yn effeithiol? Pa mor hawdd fydd hi i'n holl gymunedau elwa ar hyn, o gofio mai dim ond nifer penodol o ganolfannau profi torfol sydd gennym ni?

Nid yw strategaeth, yn y pen draw, ond cystal â'r cynllun gweithredu y mae angen inni ei roi ar waith, ac nid oes cynllun manwl yma y gallaf ei weld i roi'r egwyddorion sydd eisoes yn cael eu derbyn yn gyffredinol ar waith. Felly, pryd y gallwn ni ddisgwyl y strategaeth honno y mae'n rhaid inni ei throi yn rhywbeth a all ein paratoi ni i godi cyfyngiadau mewn gwirionedd, nid dim ond siarad am hynny mewn termau haniaethol?

In terms of the strategy document, it's similar to the strategy document that Scotland published, in the sense that it's a public-facing strategy document to give an explanation of the strategy we're going to follow, about what the ask is of the public and how our whole system is gearing up to deliver that. There will, of course, be a detailed operational plan that's in development between the different parts of our service, and we'll learn more about that as, at some point over the next week, we'll have health boards and some of their partner local authorities looking to trial some of the contact tracing element of it, with a particular focus on the care home sector. There'll be lots of learning to take from that. I'm expecting to have confirmation of the particular pilot areas, if you like, in different parts of the country that are going to move forward. That again comes from the work that the health boards and local authorities are undertaking themselves. There'll be lots of learning over that trial period before we get to the end of May, not just in those pilot areas, but to deliberately share across the rest of the country.

So, actually, in a really brief period of time, we've had lots and lots of development, and real progress. We'll have a trial that's going to start in different areas next week, we'll have learning that comes from that, and, of course, I expect that not just in terms of confirming who's undertaking trials, but then the learning from those as we build towards having that more detailed operational plan in place—so, all the detail about the scripts that the tracers will need to use, and the detail of it you can expect to find in those documents available in the service to go with the training for people. This document, though, is a public-facing document that says, 'This is the strategy we're going to take. This is the approach. Here are more of the numbers following the leaked draft report that people discussed. We now have more finesse and understanding across our whole system of what's needed and how we're going to go about it'.

In terms of your point about local access, that's why we've got mobile testing units and it's also why our ability now to make proper use of the home testing service is really important. It's UK led, but there's been sign-up and agreement from all countries in the UK to make use of that home testing service, and that will mean that our reach in remote areas of the country—and they exist in rural, semi-rural and urban Wales as well—will be increased. So, that's a really important step forward, and, again, the point I made in my statement really does matter—to have the ability to have the results of those fed back into the clinical record to make the maximum use of it I think will be really, really important. Of course, that will make more of a difference when we have a reliable antibody test and we're able to deploy that within our system.

O ran y ddogfen strategaeth, mae'n debyg i'r ddogfen strategaeth a gyhoeddwyd gan yr Alban, yn yr ystyr ei bod yn ddogfen strategaeth i'r cyhoedd i roi esboniad o'r strategaeth y byddwn yn ei dilyn, ynglŷn â beth yr ydym yn ei ofyn gan y cyhoedd a sut y mae ein system gyfan yn paratoi i gyflawni hynny. Wrth gwrs, bydd cynllun gweithredol manwl sy'n cael ei ddatblygu rhwng gwahanol rannau o'n gwasanaeth, a byddwn yn dysgu mwy am hynny oherwydd, ar ryw adeg yn ystod yr wythnos nesaf, bydd gennym ni fyrddau iechyd a rhai o'u hawdurdodau lleol partner yn awyddus i arbrofi gyda rhywfaint o elfen olrhain cyswllt y cynllun, gan ganolbwyntio'n benodol ar y sector cartrefi gofal. Bydd llawer i'w ddysgu o hynny. Rwy'n disgwyl cael cadarnhad o'r ardaloedd arbrofi penodol, os mynnwch chi, mewn gwahanol rannau o'r wlad sy'n mynd i symud ymlaen. Daw hynny eto o'r gwaith y mae'r byrddau iechyd a'r awdurdodau lleol yn ei wneud eu hunain. Bydd llawer o ddysgu dros y cyfnod prawf hwnnw cyn inni gyrraedd diwedd mis Mai, nid yn unig yn yr ardaloedd arbrofi hynny, ond i rannu'n fwriadol ar draws gweddill y wlad.

Felly, yn wir, mewn cyfnod byr iawn o amser, rydym ni wedi cael llawer iawn o ddatblygu, a chynnydd gwirioneddol. Bydd gennym ni arbrawf a fydd yn dechrau mewn gwahanol ardaloedd yr wythnos nesaf, byddwn yn dysgu o hynny, ac, wrth gwrs, rwy'n disgwyl y bydd hynny'n wir nid yn unig o ran cadarnhau pwy sy'n cynnal arbrofion, ond wedyn dysgu o'r rheini wrth inni baratoi tuag at weithredu'r cynllun gweithredol mwy manwl hwnnw—felly, yr holl fanylion am y sgriptiau y bydd angen i'r olrheinwyr eu defnyddio, a'r manylion y gallwch chi ddisgwyl eu gweld yn y dogfennau hynny sydd ar gael yn y gwasanaeth i fynd gyda'r hyfforddiant i bobl. Fodd bynnag, mae'r ddogfen hon yn ddogfen gyhoeddus sy'n dweud, 'Dyma fydd ein strategaeth. Dyma'r dull gweithredu. Dyma fwy o'r manylion yn dilyn yr adroddiad drafft a ddatgelwyd yn answyddogol a drafodwyd gan bobl. Mae gennym ni bellach fwy o ddealltwriaeth a gwybodaeth ymhob rhan o'n system gyfan o'r hyn sydd ei angen a sut y byddwn yn mynd ati i wneud hynny.'

O ran eich sylw am fynediad lleol, dyna pam y mae gennym ni unedau profi symudol a dyna pam hefyd mae ein gallu nawr i wneud defnydd priodol o'r gwasanaeth profi cartrefi yn bwysig iawn. Mae'n cael ei arwain gan y DU, ond mae pob gwlad yn y DU wedi cytuno i ddefnyddio'r gwasanaeth profi yn y cartref hwnnw, a bydd hynny'n golygu y bydd gennym ni mwy o bresenoldeb mewn ardaloedd anghysbell o'r wlad—ac maen nhw'n bodoli yn y Gymru wledig, lled-wledig a threfol hefyd. Felly, mae hynny'n gam pwysig iawn ymlaen, ac, unwaith eto, mae'r sylw a wneuthum yn fy natganiad yn wirioneddol bwysig—bydd bod â'r gallu i drosglwyddo canlyniadau'r bobl hynny i'r cofnod clinigol er mwyn gwneud y defnydd gorau ohono rwy'n credu yn wirioneddol bwysig. Wrth gwrs, bydd hynny'n gwneud mwy o wahaniaeth pan fydd gennym ni brawf gwrthgyrff dibynadwy a'n bod ni'n gallu defnyddio hwnnw yn ein system.

15:15

Dwi'n falch bod y Gweinidog wedi crybwyll y sector gofal yn fanna, a dwi am droi rŵan at gartrefi gofal. Mae'n bryder gwirioneddol gen i nad oes camau cryfach yn cael eu cymryd i warchod y sector yma, sydd wrth gwrs yn wynebu risg mor uchel. Mi fydd y Gweinidog yn gwybod fy mod i o'r farn bod angen i'r Llywodraeth gael cynllun i ymestyn profi asymptomatig i gynnwys pob cartref gofal, beth bynnag ei faint. Mae'r dystiolaeth yn gryf iawn ar hynny.

Ond mae eisiau edrych ar sut i gau'r drws i'r feirws gyrraedd y cartrefi yn y lle cyntaf, dwi'n meddwl. Dwi'n dal i gael pobl yn dweud wrthyf i yn y sector gofal eu bod nhw'n hynod bryderus am bobl sy'n cael eu rhyddhau o'r ysbyty ar ôl triniaeth i gartref gofal, efo'r posibilrwydd, wrth gwrs, o ddod â'r feirws efo nhw. Mae yna dynhau ar y profi sy'n digwydd. Mae'n rhyfeddol nad oes yna brofi awtomatig o'r dechrau ar bobl oedd yn cael eu rhyddhau o ysbytai i gartref, ond mae eisiau mwy na hynny. Fyddai'r Gweinidog yn cytuno â fi fod angen rhoi camau mewn lle er mwyn sicrhau mur, cwarantin os liciwch chi, rhwng yr ardal honno a allai fod yn risg, sef ysbyty, a'r cartref gofal—o bosibl rhoi saith diwrnod o gwarantin i berson cyn mynd yn ôl i'r cartref gofal, mewn rhan werdd o ysbyty, mewn gwesty hyd yn oed, er mwyn gwneud yn siŵr ein bod ni'n cau'r drws gymaint ag y gallwn ni i'r risg o'r feirws yn cyrraedd cartref gofal, achos rydym ni'n gwybod yn iawn beth ydy'r peryglon unwaith mae hynny'n digwydd?

I'm pleased the Minister mentioned the care sector. I want to turn to care homes now. It's a very real concern for me that more robust steps are not being taken to safeguard this sector, which of course is facing such a huge risk. The Minister will know that I'm of the view that the Government needs to have a plan to extend asymptomatic testing to include all care homes, whatever their size. The evidence is very strong on that.

But we need to look at how we can close the door on the virus reaching care homes in the first place. I still have people in the care sector telling me that they're extremely concerned about people who are released from hospital after treatment into care homes, with the possibility, of course, of bringing the virus with them. There has been some tightening up on testing. It is shocking that there isn't automatic testing already for people who are released from hospitals, but we need more than that. Would the Minister agree with me that we need to put steps in place in order to ensure a barrier, or quarantine, if you like, between that area that could be at risk, namely the hospital, and the care home—perhaps providing seven days' quarantine for an individual before they go back to a care home, in a hospital green zone, or even in a hotel, in order to ensure that we close the door as firmly as possible on the risk that this virus could reach care homes, because we know what the dangers are when that happens?

Thank you. As I said before, and I guess I'll have the opportunity to say this on every single occasion I come here, when the evidence changes, if the advice changes, the Government will be happy to reconsider it's position on any of the areas of activity we're undertaking. That includes the developing evidence base on asymptomatic testing in care homes. We made a move on changing our policy on testing across the whole care home environment, you'll recall, a couple of weeks ago for areas where there was either a confirmed case or a suspected case where someone was symptomatic, so we'll learn more from that about asymptomatic testing, the likely prevalence and also the value in how we deploy our testing resource, and the value we expect to get from that. It's really important to understand how we use it in the best way to keep as many people safe, well and alive as possible. So, again, if the evidence does change, then I'm happy to move, and I'm certainly not looking to be stubborn and dig my heels into the ground on any of these issues, because it's all got to be about the overwhelming priority and purpose, which is about keeping people alive and well.

On hospital discharge, we've introduced a policy where there should be testing on discharge in hospital before they go to a care home. If Members of any group are aware of somewhere where they think that isn't happening, or they've got cases of people who have come to them, they should take that up with the health board initially, but if there isn't an appropriate response, then by all means contact my office, because I would want to know if those issues aren't being addressed in accordance with the ministerial decision on this that I have already made and communicated.

The points about quarantine are rather more difficult because, again, we need an evidence base on where the value is for that. The Member and others will know that the phrase 'quarantine' is probably unhelpful, but I understand what the Member is trying to get at. But if you're going to hold people in an environment, what environment is that? Are you still making sure that people are mobilised, because real harm is caused when people are kept in an inappropriate environment, where a hospital is no longer the right place for someone, especially older people, then real harm can be caused, not just healthcare-acquired infections but also physical deconditioning as well.

When we're talking about the harms that are caused, what we don't want to do is ignore that harm that really can be caused and the wider social harm that can be caused by people becoming deconditioned and losing their independence as well. What I don't want to do is to fill up all of our field hospitals as centres where people are held before going back into the care home sector. We've had a proper national conversation on how we make use of that capacity. What I would not want is that we potentially have a further rise in coronavirus in September and our field hospitals are then full of people who could and should be in care homes.

We need to understand the evidence, we need to have a conversation with all parts of our system, and that includes local government and people like Care Forum Wales, who represent many people within the care home sector, to understand what the right answer is, how we build confidence in the system, how we understand the different harms that can be caused by making different choices. So, it's not a closed-door response, but I do think we've got to think about what that evidence looks like, and there's already a conversation that I've asked for to take place between health and local government, and then to draw in our colleagues in Care Forum Wales to understand what that could and should look like. 

Diolch. Fel y dywedais o'r blaen, ac mae'n debyg y bydd gennyf gyfle i ddweud hyn ar bob un achlysur pan ddof yma, pan fydd y dystiolaeth yn newid, os bydd y cyngor yn newid, mae'r Llywodraeth yn hapus i ailystyried ei safbwynt ar unrhyw un o'r meysydd gweithgaredd yr ydym yn ymgymryd â nhw. Mae hynny'n cynnwys y sylfaen dystiolaeth sy'n datblygu ar brofi pobl heb symptomau mewn cartrefi gofal. Fe gofiwch i ni newid ein polisi ar brofi yn y maes cartrefi gofal yn ei gyfanrwydd rai wythnosau yn ôl ar gyfer ardaloedd lle'r oedd achos wedi ei gadarnhau neu achos tybiedig lle'r oedd symptomau gan rywun, felly byddwn yn dysgu mwy o hynny am brofi pobl heb symptomau, yr achosion tebygol a hefyd y gwerth yn y ffordd yr ydym yn defnyddio ein hadnodd profi, a'r gwerth yr ydym yn disgwyl ei gael o hynny. Mae'n bwysig iawn deall sut yr ydym yn defnyddio hynny yn y ffordd orau i gadw cymaint o bobl yn ddiogel, yn iach ac yn fyw ag y bo modd. Felly, unwaith eto, os yw'r dystiolaeth yn newid, yna rwy'n fodlon newid pethau, ac yn sicr nid fy mwriad yw bod yn ystyfnig a gwrthod ildio ar unrhyw un o'r materion hyn, oherwydd mae'n rhaid i'r cyfan ymwneud â'r flaenoriaeth a'r diben mawr, sy'n ymwneud â chadw pobl yn fyw ac yn iach.

O ran rhyddhau cleifion o'r ysbyty, rydym ni wedi cyflwyno polisi lle y dylid profi cleifion yn yr ysbyty cyn eu rhyddhau i gartref gofal. Os yw Aelodau unrhyw grŵp yn ymwybodol o rywle lle credant nad yw hynny'n digwydd, neu fod ganddyn nhw achosion o bobl sydd wedi dod atyn nhw, dylen nhw drafod hynny gyda'r bwrdd iechyd i ddechrau, ond os nad oes yna ymateb priodol, yna ar bob cyfrif cysylltwch â'm swyddfa i, oherwydd byddwn eisiau gwybod os nad yw'r materion hynny'n cael sylw yn unol â'r penderfyniad gweinidogol ar hyn yr wyf eisoes wedi'i wneud a'i gyfleu.

Mae'r sylwadau am gwarantîn braidd yn anoddach oherwydd, unwaith eto, mae arnom ni angen sylfaen dystiolaeth ynghylch beth yw gwerth hynny. Bydd yr aelod ac eraill yn gwybod nad yw'r ymadrodd 'cwarantîn' yn ddefnyddiol, yn ôl pob tebyg, ond deallaf yr hyn y mae'r Aelod yn ceisio'i gyfleu. Ond os ydych chi'n mynd i gadw pobl yn rhywle, lle fydd hynny? A ydych yn dal i wneud yn siŵr bod pobl yn cael symud, oherwydd fe achosir niwed gwirioneddol pan gaiff pobl eu cadw mewn amgylchedd amhriodol, lle nad yw ysbyty bellach yn lle priodol i rywun, yn enwedig pobl hŷn, yna gellir achosi niwed gwirioneddol, nid yn unig heintiau a ddelir wrth gael gofal iechyd ond hefyd y broses o ddatgyflyru corfforol.

Pan fyddwn yn sôn am y niwed sy'n cael ei achosi, yr hyn nad ydym ni eisiau ei wneud yw anwybyddu'r niwed y gellir ei achosi mewn gwirionedd a'r niwed cymdeithasol ehangach a all gael ei achosi gan bobl yn datgyflyru'n gorfforol ac yn colli eu hannibyniaeth hefyd. Yr hyn nad wyf eisiau ei wneud yw llenwi pob un o'n hysbytai maes fel canolfannau lle caiff pobl eu cadw cyn mynd yn ôl i'r sector cartrefi gofal. Rydym ni wedi cael sgwrs genedlaethol drwyadl ynghylch sut yr ydym yn defnyddio'r gallu hwnnw. Yr hyn na fyddwn i eisiau ei weld yw cynnydd pellach o bosib yn y coronafeirws ym mis Medi, gyda'n hysbytai maes yn llawn o bobl bryd hynny a allai ac a ddylai fod mewn cartrefi gofal.

Mae angen inni ddeall y dystiolaeth, mae angen inni gael sgwrs gyda phob rhan o'n system, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys llywodraeth leol a phobl fel Fforwm Gofal Cymru, sy'n cynrychioli llawer o bobl yn y sector cartrefi gofal, er mwyn deall beth yw'r ateb cywir, sut yr ydym yn magu ffydd yn y system, sut yr ydym yn deall y gwahanol niwed y gellir ei achosi drwy wneud dewisiadau gwahanol. Felly, nid ymateb drws caeedig mohono, ond rwy'n credu bod yn rhaid i ni feddwl ynghylch beth fydd natur y dystiolaeth honno, ac rwyf eisoes wedi gofyn i'r maes iechyd ac i lywodraeth leol ddod at ei gilydd i drafod, ac yna i gynnwys ein cydweithwyr yn Fforwm Gofal Cymru i ddeall beth fydd union natur hynny. 

15:20

Minister, on Monday night, many of us watched the heroic actions of the ICU staff at the Royal Gwent Hospital as they battled to save the lives of those infected with COVID-19. It was both truly heartbreaking and heartwarming at the same time. It brought home the sheer horror of the disease and it highlighted the fantastic levels of care and compassion of all the staff working in our critical care departments. We simply cannot thank them enough. They went through hell to save lives, and the least we can do now as a public body is to stick to social distancing rules. Minister, thankfully, we seem to be over the worst of the outbreak and, according to the modelling update provided by the technical advisory cell, the number of cases is halving every 10 days or so. However, history tells us that pandemics come in waves. Minister, we were woefully unprepared for the first wave. That was no-one's fault, but we have to learn lessons. So what steps are you taking to ensure that we are fully prepared for future outbreaks of this or any other pandemic?

We must also ensure that we are not prolonging the current outbreak. I was contacted by a constituent yesterday whose elderly mother was sent home after being told that she probably had coronavirus. This lady was sent home to spread the infection on to her family and carers. My constituent is still extremely unwell and is aged 79. Minister, why aren't we testing everyone leaving hospital to ensure that we are not adding to infection rates?

Minister, there is emerging evidence of a strong correlation between vitamin D deficiency and COVID-19 mortality rates. Given this, and the evidence that the risk of spreading the virus is much less outdoors, shouldn't we be encouraging people to spend more time outdoors, provided they stick to the social distancing rules, remembering that not every family has a garden for children to play in, and whilst also noting at the same time the rise in cases in Germany after relaxing some of the measures?

Minister, our whole approach must be a balancing act, and the harms of coronavirus have to be weighed up against the harms of strict stay-at-home orders. So, can you give us your assurance that tackling the harms associated with loneliness and isolation will be a key factor in the Welsh Government's approach, going forward? Will you also outline a timeline for when our NHS will be open for all patients and not just those with life-threatening illness?

And, as ever, I thank you and your department for all the efforts in the fight against coronavirus. Diolch yn fawr. 

Gweinidog, nos Lun, gwyliodd llawer ohonom ni weithredoedd arwrol staff yr uned gofal dwys yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent wrth iddyn nhw ymladd i achub bywydau'r rhai a heintiwyd â COVID-19. Roedd yn wirioneddol dorcalonnus ac yn codi'r galon ar yr un pryd. Roedd yn amlygu erchylldra llwyr y clefyd a thynnodd sylw at gymaint yw gofal a thosturi'r holl staff sy'n gweithio yn ein hadrannau gofal critigol. Ni allwn ni ddiolch digon iddyn nhw. Aethant drwy uffern i achub bywydau, a'r lleiaf y gallwn ni ei wneud nawr fel corff cyhoeddus yw glynu wrth reolau cadw pellter cymdeithasol. Gweinidog, diolch byth, mae'n ymddangos ein bod ni dros y gwaethaf o'r achosion ac, yn ôl y diweddariad modelu a ddarparwyd gan y gell ymgynghorol dechnegol, mae nifer yr achosion yn haneru bob 10 diwrnod neu fwy. Fodd bynnag, mae hanes yn dweud wrthym ni fod achosion o pandemig yn dod mewn tonnau. Gweinidog, roeddem yn druenus o amharod ar gyfer y don gyntaf. Nid bai neb oedd hynny, ond mae'n rhaid inni ddysgu gwersi. Felly beth ydych chi'n ei wneud i sicrhau ein bod yn gwbl barod ar gyfer achosion o'r pandemig hwn neu unrhyw bandemig arall yn y dyfodol?

Rhaid inni sicrhau hefyd nad ydym yn ymestyn yr achosion presennol. Cysylltodd etholwr â mi ddoe y cafodd ei fam oedrannus ei hanfon adref ar ôl cael gwybod ei bod hi'n debygol bod ganddi coronafeirws. Anfonwyd y wraig hon adref i ledaenu'r haint i'w theulu a'i gofalwyr. Mae fy etholwr yn dal yn sâl iawn ac yn 79 oed. Gweinidog, pam nad ydym yn profi pawb sy'n gadael yr ysbyty i sicrhau nad ydym yn ychwanegu at gyfraddau heintio?

Gweinidog, mae tystiolaeth yn dod i'r amlwg o gydberthynas gref rhwng diffyg fitamin D a chyfraddau marwolaeth COVID-19. O ystyried hyn, a'r dystiolaeth bod y peryg o ledaenu'r feirws yn llawer llai yn yr awyr agored, oni ddylem ni fod yn annog pobl i dreulio mwy o amser yn yr awyr agored, ar yr amod eu bod yn glynu wrth y rheolau cadw pellter cymdeithasol, gan gofio nad oes gan bob teulu ardd i blant chwarae ynddi, a chan gydnabod ar yr un pryd y cynnydd yn nifer yr achosion yn yr Almaen ar ôl llacio rhai o'r cyfyngiadau.

Gweinidog, rhaid inni fynd ati mewn modd sy'n hollol gytbwys, ac mae'n rhaid rhoi'r niwed a ddaw yn sgil y coronafeirws yn y glorian gyda'r niwed a ddaw yn sgil gorchmynion caeth i aros gartref. Felly, a allwch chi roi sicrwydd i ni y bydd mynd i'r afael â'r niwed sy'n gysylltiedig ag unigrwydd a theimlo'n ynysig yn ffactor allweddol yn null Llywodraeth Cymru o weithredu, wrth symud ymlaen? A wnewch chi hefyd amlinellu amserlen ar gyfer pryd y bydd ein GIG yn cynnig gwasanaeth i bob claf, ac nid y rhai â salwch sy'n bygwth bywyd yn unig?

Ac, fel erioed, diolch i chi a'ch adran am yr holl ymdrechion yn y frwydr yn erbyn y coronafeirws. Diolch yn fawr.  

15:25

Thank you for the questions. I'll try to get through them as quickly as I can, Llywydd. On pandemic preparations, we'll have lots of lessons to learn on the back of this. Our primary preparations were for a flu-style pandemic, but this is a slightly different form of pandemic. We'll have lots of lessons to learn. We're learning as we go, and the way that we're not just stocking but restocking our personal protective equipment stores is part of what we're doing in the here and now, but we'll definitely need to take a look back ourselves. And as I've said before, I'm sure that, in every Parliament across the United Kingdom, there'll be a desire across parties to look back at what's happened when we finally reach the end of this to learn lessons, to understand what we did, but, crucially, to understand what we need to do for the future. I hope that inquiry can take place sooner rather than later, because that would mean that we're actually at the end of the coronavirus pandemic, but I do appreciate that this is going to have to wait until we really do reach that point in time. 

On the point about testing every hospital resident, I think, from the example you've given, if they were symptomatic, as you suggest, then that's the sort of thing where there should have been a clinical view on that and a test offered, if appropriate, before they left. And again, I think this is the sort of thing to take up with the health board directly, and if you don't get a satisfactory response then do come back to me. As I said in response to Rhun ap Iorwerth, we're continuing to review the evidence on what we should do, and that may well change what we need to do around testing of both hospital patients but also of our staff in health and social care as well. 

In terms of spending more time outdoors, we changed the regulations in Wales. One of the modest and cautious easements we made to the lockdown regulations and approach here in Wales was to say that people could go out for exercise more than once, because the evidence the First Minister referred to was about the fact that the half-life of coronavirus is significantly reduced outside and in sunlight. So, that's a change that we have made to encourage more people to go out more than once a day for exercise. 

And in terms of your point about loneliness and isolation, it's been a point that Ministers considered at each stage in the changes we're making, and it's a matter of real concern. There are many Members in the Chamber who I know, like me, have older parents who they are effectively caring for, and it's something that bothers me about my own family and I know other Members take that seriously too as well. So, the strategy for loneliness and isolation is part of the support we've put in place and that we funded especially with the third sector to provide support. That will absolutely be one of the key factors we need to consider in terms of exiting lockdown and the eventual path to and through recovery. 

And in terms of a timeline for further NHS activity, I should be in a position to provide a better idea about that as I both receive the plans on quarter 1, and, as I indicated I think in response to Angela Burns, I do intend to bring back a further statement to give some more detail on that. And I believe I've had the pleasure of an invite from Dr Lloyd to return to the health committee in the next few weeks as well. So, there will be opportunities for me to set out where the NHS is and to face questions from Members on that.  

Diolch am y cwestiynau. Ceisiaf eu hateb mor gyflym ag y gallaf, Llywydd. O ran paratoadau ar gyfer pandemig, bydd gennym ni lawer o wersi i'w dysgu yn sgil hyn. Roedd ein paratoadau sylfaenol ar gyfer pandemig ar batrwm y ffliw, ond mae hwn yn fath ychydig yn wahanol o bandemig. Bydd gennym ni lawer o wersi i'w dysgu. Rydym ni'n dysgu wrth i ni ymateb i'r sefyllfa, ac mae'r ffordd yr ydym ni nid yn unig yn stocio ond yn ailstocio ein storfeydd cyfarpar diogelu personol yn rhan o'r hyn yr ydym ni'n ei wneud nawr, ond yn sicr bydd angen i ni werthuso ein hymateb. Ac fel yr wyf wedi'i ddweud o'r blaen, rwy'n siŵr, ym mhob Senedd ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig, y bydd awydd ym mhob plaid i edrych yn ôl ar yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd pan fyddwn yn cyrraedd pen draw hyn o'r diwedd i ddysgu gwersi, i ddeall yr hyn a wnaethom ni, ond yn hollbwysig, i ddeall yr hyn y mae angen inni ei wneud ar gyfer y dyfodol. Rwy'n gobeithio y gall yr ymchwiliad hwnnw ddigwydd cyn gynted ag sy'n bosib, oherwydd byddai hynny'n golygu ein bod ar ddiwedd pandemig y coronafeirws, ond rwyf yn sylweddoli y bydd yn rhaid i hynny aros nes y byddwn ni mewn gwirionedd wedi cyrraedd yr adeg honno.

O ran y sylw am brofi pob preswylydd yn yr ysbyty, rwy'n credu, o'r enghraifft a roesoch chi, os oedden nhw'n symptomatig, fel yr ydych chi'n awgrymu, dyna'r math o beth y dylem ni fod wedi cael barn glinigol arno a chynnig prawf, os oedd hynny'n briodol, cyn iddyn nhw adael. Ac unwaith eto, rwy'n credu mai dyma'r math o beth i'w godi gyda'r bwrdd iechyd yn uniongyrchol, ac os na chewch ymateb boddhaol yna dewch yn ôl ataf. Fel y dywedais wrth ymateb i Rhun ap Iorwerth, rydym yn parhau i adolygu'r dystiolaeth ar yr hyn y dylem ni ei wneud, ac mae'n bosib iawn y bydd hynny'n newid yr hyn y mae angen inni ei wneud o ran profi cleifion mewn ysbytai ond hefyd ein staff ym maes iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol hefyd.

O ran treulio mwy o amser yn yr awyr agored, fe wnaethom ni newid y rheoliadau yng Nghymru. Un agwedd ar y lliniaru cymedrol a gochelgar a wnaethom ni i'r rheoliadau a'r dull gweithredu yma yng Nghymru oedd dweud y gallai pobl fynd allan i ymarfer corff fwy nag unwaith, gan fod y dystiolaeth y cyfeiriodd y Prif Weinidog ati yn ymwneud â'r ffaith bod hanner oes coronafeirws yn cael ei lleihau'n sylweddol y tu allan ac yng ngolau'r haul. Felly, dyna newid yr ydym ni wedi'i wneud i annog mwy o bobl i fynd allan fwy nag unwaith y dydd i wneud ymarfer corff. 

Ac o ran eich sylw ynglŷn ag unigrwydd a theimlo'n ynysig, bu hynny'n rhywbeth y bu Gweinidogion yn ei ystyried ar bob cam yn y newidiadau yr ydym yn eu gwneud, ac mae'n fater sy'n peri pryder gwirioneddol. Gwn fod gan lawer o Aelodau yn y Siambr, fel sydd gen innau, rieni hŷn y maen nhw'n gofalu amdanyn nhw i bob pwrpas, ac mae'n rhywbeth sy'n fy mhoeni am fy nheulu fy hun, ac rwy'n gwybod bod aelodau eraill yn cymryd hynny o ddifrif hefyd. Felly, mae'r strategaeth ar gyfer unigrwydd a theimlo'n ynysig yn rhan o'r cymorth yr ydym ni wedi'i roi ar waith ac y bu inni ei ariannu'n arbennig gyda'r trydydd sector i ddarparu cymorth. Dyna fydd un o'r prif ffactorau y mae angen inni eu hystyried o ran codi'r cyfyngiadau symud a'r llwybr yn y pen draw at adferiad ac y tu hwnt i hynny.

Ac o ran amserlen ar gyfer gweithgarwch pellach gan y GIG, dylwn i fod mewn sefyllfa i ddarparu gwell syniad am hynny wrth imi gael y cynlluniau ar chwarter 1, ac fel y dywedais, rwy'n credu mewn ymateb i Angela Burns, rwy'n bwriadu cyflwyno datganiad pellach i roi mwy o fanylion am hynny. Ac rwy'n credu y cefais y pleser o gael gwahoddiad gan Dr Lloyd i ddychwelyd i'r Pwyllgor Iechyd yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf hefyd. Felly, bydd cyfleoedd imi amlinellu lle mae'r GIG arni a wynebu cwestiynau gan Aelodau ynglŷn â hynny.  

[Inaudible] COVID-19-related inflammatory disease, which affects children in the UK and, indeed, other parts of the world. Will the Minister give an assessment of the risk to children and young people in Wales, and update us on any action taken by the Welsh NHS? And could you also confirm that any evidence that emerges in respect of child-specific COVID-19 illness risks will be factored into the decision-making process in respect of school reopenings?

And can you also comment on reports that, in England, the UK Government is recruiting unpaid volunteers, working alongside paid workers, to carry out COVID-19 tests? Do you agree with me and with the trade union Unison that this really takes the notion of volunteering way too far? So, will you be able to confirm on behalf of the Welsh Government that those contracted to carry out testing in Wales are properly trained, properly provided with protective equipment and that they are being properly paid whilst carrying out this work? 

[Anhyglyw] Clefydau llidiol yn ymwneud â COVID-19 sy'n effeithio ar blant yn y DU ac, yn wir, mewn rhannau eraill o'r byd. A wnaiff y Gweinidog asesu'r risg i blant a phobl ifanc yng Nghymru, a rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni am unrhyw beth y mae GIG Cymru wedi ei wneud yn hynny o beth? Ac a wnewch chi hefyd gadarnhau y caiff unrhyw dystiolaeth sy'n dod i'r amlwg mewn cysylltiad â pheryglon iechyd COVID-19 sy'n benodol i blant ei chynnwys yn y broses o wneud penderfyniadau o ran ailagor ysgolion?

Ac a wnewch chi hefyd roi sylwadau ar adroddiadau bod Llywodraeth y DU, yn Lloegr, yn recriwtio gwirfoddolwyr di-dâl, gan weithio ochr yn ochr â gweithwyr cyflogedig, i gynnal profion COVID-19? A ydych yn cytuno â mi a chyda'r undeb llafur Unsain bod hyn mewn gwirionedd yn mynd â'r syniad o wirfoddoli yn rhy bell? Felly, a wnewch chi gadarnhau ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru bod y rhai sydd o dan gontract i gynnal profion yng Nghymru yn cael eu hyfforddi'n briodol, y rhoddir y cyfarpar diogelu priodol iddyn nhw ac y cânt eu talu'n briodol wrth wneud y gwaith hwn?

Thank you, Mick, and I think it's important to acknowledge that Members may or may not have seen reports of an inquest that opened today of a very young child who had passed away after their mother passed away, with COVID-19 being I think the primary cause of the death of the mother. And whilst not the primary cause of death of the very young child, I think the child was just a few days old. The general evidence is that despite the tragic circumstances that are being resolved by the coroner there, the general understanding is that younger children have a different response and are a lot less likely to come to harm. That doesn't mean, though, that we should be cavalier about our approach to young children and their care and treatment, and that's why this Government is taking a properly cautious approach to school opening, because we don't fully understand all of the evidence about the transmission both between children, and between children and adults of this particular virus, because there was real concern at the start of this that you could potentially have children mixing with older grandparents, where people in a lower risk group could be mixing with people in a higher risk group and you could end up transferring harm. And one of the really difficult parts about this, I know, is that there are grandparents who aren't able to see their grandchildren. I know that there are grandparents in the Assembly and that we've all got constituents who feel some of that real pain and difficulty in not being able to see their family. 

But the school reopening will have to take account of the developing evidence and the developing understanding we have of the impact upon children, but crucially about the behaviour of adults around school openings as well, because, actually, if children themselves are less likely to come to harm, you've still got to think about the staff and how staff mix if they're going back to a school that's been reopened. You also need to consider parents dropping off and collecting, in particular in a primary school environment, around the school gates. So, we've got to think through how all of that could work. We're not at the point where that decision is being made in Wales, but I can give you the assurance that you're looking for, that the evidence will definitely lead to and inform the choice that the Welsh Government makes. And when that choice is made, you'll hear from our education Minister first. 

On your point about volunteers and the testing programme, I'm happy to confirm that our approach in Wales is not to ask people to undertake voluntary work to either administer tests or, indeed, to undertake the contact tracing that we've been discussing earlier today. Where it's paid work, they should be paid, and the appropriate conditions for that employment adhered to, including if there is a need to wear PPE. So, that's not the way that we're looking to roll out the service here, and it's for England to explain what they're doing in England, but the approach we have here in Wales is that you can expect paid staff and proper terms and conditions to do that work. 

Diolch, Mick, ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig cydnabod y gall Aelodau fod wedi gweld adroddiadau am gwest a agorodd heddiw ynghylch plentyn ifanc iawn a fu farw ar ôl i'w fam farw, gyda COVID-19 rwy'n credu yn brif achos marwolaeth y fam. Er nad dyna brif achos marwolaeth y plentyn ifanc iawn, rwy'n credu bod y plentyn ychydig ddyddiau oed. Y dystiolaeth gyffredinol yw, er gwaethaf yr amgylchiadau trasig y mae'r crwner yn ceisio eu datrys, y ddealltwriaeth gyffredinol yw bod plant iau yn ymateb yn wahanol a'u bod yn llawer llai tebygol o gael niwed. Nid yw hynny'n golygu, fodd bynnag, y dylem ni fod yn ddi-hid ynghylch ein hymagwedd tuag at blant ifanc a'u gofal a'u triniaeth, a dyna pam y mae'r Llywodraeth hon yn cymryd agwedd bwyllog tuag at agor ysgolion, gan nad ydym ni'n deall yr holl dystiolaeth am drosglwyddo rhwng plant, a rhwng plant ac oedolion y feirws arbennig hwn, oherwydd roedd pryder gwirioneddol ar ddechrau hyn y gallech chi gael plant o bosib yn cymysgu â neiniau a theidiau hŷn, lle gallai pobl mewn grŵp risg is fod yn cymysgu â phobl mewn grŵp risg uwch ac y gallech chi drosglwyddo niwed yn y pen draw. Ac un o'r rhannau anodd iawn yn hyn, rwy'n gwybod, yw bod yna neiniau a theidiau na allan nhw weld eu hwyrion. Gwn fod neiniau a theidiau yn y Cynulliad a bod gan bob un ohonom ni etholwyr sy'n teimlo rhywfaint o'r boen a'r anhawster gwirioneddol hwnnw o beidio â gallu gweld eu teuluoedd.

Ond wrth i ysgolion ailagor bydd angen ystyried y dystiolaeth ddatblygol a'r ddealltwriaeth ddatblygol sydd gennym ni o'r effaith ar blant, ond yn hollbwysig, ynglŷn ag ymddygiad oedolion ynghylch ailagor ysgolion hefyd, oherwydd, mewn gwirionedd, os yw'r plant eu hunain yn llai tebygol o gael niwed, mae'n rhaid i chi feddwl am y staff a sut mae'r staff yn cymysgu os ydynt yn mynd yn ôl i ysgol sydd wedi'i hailagor. Mae angen i chi hefyd ystyried rhieni'n danfon ac yn casglu, yn enwedig mewn amgylchedd ysgol gynradd, o amgylch gatiau'r ysgol. Felly, mae'n rhaid i ni ystyried sut y gallai hynny i gyd weithio. Nid ydym wedi cyrraedd y pwynt lle mae'r penderfyniad hwnnw'n cael ei wneud yng Nghymru, ond gallaf roi'r sicrwydd yr ydych chi'n chwilio amdano, y bydd y dystiolaeth yn sicr yn arwain at, ac yn sail i'r dewis y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud. A phan wneir y dewis hwnnw, byddwch yn clywed gan ein gweinidog addysg yn gyntaf.

O ran eich sylw am wirfoddolwyr a'r rhaglen brofi, rwy'n hapus i gadarnhau nad ein dull yng Nghymru yw gofyn i bobl wneud gwaith gwirfoddol i naill ai weinyddu profion neu, yn wir, ymgymryd â'r olrhain cyswllt yr ydym ni wedi bod yn ei drafod yn gynharach heddiw. Lle bo'n waith â thâl, dylid eu talu, a rhaid cadw at yr amodau priodol ar gyfer y gyflogaeth honno, gan gynnwys a oes angen gwisgo cyfarpar diogelu personol. Felly, nid dyna'r ffordd yr ydym ni'n bwriadu cyflwyno'r gwasanaeth yma, a lle Lloegr yw egluro'r hyn y maen nhw'n ei wneud yn Lloegr, ond o ran y ffordd yr ydym ni'n mynd ati yma yng Nghymru, fe allwch chi ddisgwyl staff sy'n cael eu talu ac sydd â thelerau ac amodau priodol i wneud y gwaith hwnnw.  

15:30

Yesterday, an e-mail from the Welsh Government detailing the criteria for the extra £40 million for adult social care, announced on 14 April, advised that eligibility is limited to local authority commissioned care only. So, I therefore query why care homes with NHS or privately funded clients have been excluded. Now, because of this amended guidance, issued only by e-mail and not published, as has been mentioned, by the Welsh Government, one local authority has just this morning asked their nursing homes to clarify which of their PPE is used for social care and which is used for nursing purposes. I find that to be outrageous, Minister.

And, during last week's Plenary, the First Minister denied my claim that local authorities knew nothing as yet about the £500 bonus for carers announced on 1 May, and how it would be distributed. I have had it confirmed very robustly this week that no criteria or guidance have been issued. So, when will this be the case, and when will this money actually reach the pockets of all our valuable social care workers? Diolch.

Ddoe, dywedodd neges e-bost gan Lywodraeth Cymru a oedd yn nodi'r meini prawf ar gyfer y £40 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer gofal cymdeithasol i oedolion, a gyhoeddwyd ar 14 Ebrill, fod cymhwysedd yn gyfyngedig i ofal a gomisiynir gan awdurdod lleol yn unig. Felly, rwy'n cwestiynu pam mae cartrefi gofal gyda chleientiaid GIG neu gleientiaid a ariennir yn breifat wedi'u gwahardd. Nawr, oherwydd yr arweiniad diwygiedig hwn, a gyhoeddwyd drwy e-bost yn unig ac na chyhoeddwyd, fel y crybwyllwyd, gan Lywodraeth Cymru, mae un awdurdod lleol newydd ofyn i'w gartrefi nyrsio egluro pa rai o'u cyfarpar diogelu personol sy'n cael eu defnyddio ar gyfer gofal cymdeithasol a pha rai sy'n cael eu defnyddio at ddibenion nyrsio. Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n warthus, Gweinidog.

Ac, yn ystod y cyfarfod llawn yr wythnos diwethaf, gwadodd y Prif Weinidog fy honiad nad oedd awdurdodau lleol yn gwybod dim eto am y bonws o £500 i ofalwyr a gyhoeddwyd ar 1 Mai, a sut y byddai'n cael ei ddosbarthu. Rwyf wedi cael cadarnhad pendant iawn yr wythnos hon nad oes unrhyw feini prawf nac arweiniad wedi'u cyhoeddi. Felly, pryd fydd hyn yn digwydd, a phryd y bydd yr arian hwn mewn gwirionedd yn cyrraedd pocedi ein holl weithwyr gofal cymdeithasol gwerthfawr? Diolch.

Okay. On the £40 million, it's been issued to local government to support the social care sector. I would expect that those people who have care commissioned through the national health service will find they're having the appropriate support for their businesses as well. I'm happy to take up a further conversation with her. I know that our lead director here on social care and integration is having that direct conversation with the Welsh Local Government Association, with the Association of Directors of Social Services, and I expect that's a conversation that should reach a proper conclusion. We also have regular engagements between myself and the WLGA, and, of course, there's a regular—three times a week, I think—leaders call from all 22 leaders with the local government Minister, and opportunities to have those conversations to understand how we use that money. I also think it's really important to recognise that this isn't a one-shot. We're going to be in these extraordinary circumstances for months to come, and we need to make sure that the calm, rational and, at times, searching conversations we need to have are the way that we deal with this rather than making rather more extraordinary claims. 

On PPE, I'm not sure that I really understood the point that the Member was making; it seemed to be confused about whether or not local councils are asking about how PPE is used for nursing and non-nursing care, or whether it was about the provision. But, ultimately, the Government is paying for all of that. We are paying for the PPE that is distributed to nursing homes. We're paying for PPE whether people are receiving nursing care or not. In normal times, we wouldn't be doing that, so it's another marker of the extraordinary times that we're in—the fact that the Government is providing that care to employers who have legal responsibilities for PPE. But it's the only way to make sure that adequate PPE reaches our front-line members of staff where they're actually providing care for our constituents.

On the £500 payment, there are ongoing conversations and negotiations about the terms of how that payment is made to people delivering front-line social care. And I welcome the fact that the Member wants to see people have that in their pockets; I hope she'll join with us in asking the UK Government to make sure that's provided free of tax. That would be a welcome bonus for these relatively low-paid members of staff. And I hope that her and her group will lobby the Chancellor and the UK Government to make sure that happens, rather than seeing some of that money snatched away in the form of tax and national insurance. But it's an active conversation between employers, trade unions and the Government about how the detail of that should be worked through, for example, to make sure that a one-shot payment doesn't compromise in-work benefit payments to some of these members of staff. I wouldn't want to see these people penalised for a real gesture of recognition of the extraordinary times that these members of staff are living with, and the care that they're providing in each and every one of our communities.

Iawn. O ran y £40 miliwn, fe'i dosbarthwyd i lywodraeth leol i gefnogi'r sector gofal cymdeithasol. Byddwn yn disgwyl y bydd y bobl hynny sydd â gofal a gomisiynir drwy'r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yn gweld eu bod yn cael y cymorth priodol ar gyfer eu busnesau hefyd. Rwy'n fodlon i gael sgwrs bellach gyda hi. Gwn fod ein cyfarwyddwr arweiniol yma ar ofal cymdeithasol ac integreiddio'n cael y sgwrs uniongyrchol honno gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, gyda Chymdeithas Cyfarwyddwyr Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, a disgwyliaf y bydd honno'n sgwrs a ddylai ddod i gasgliad priodol. Rwyf hefyd yn trafod yn rheolaidd gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, ac wrth gwrs, yn rheolaidd—deirgwaith yr wythnos, mi gredaf—mae trafodaeth arweinwyr gyda phob un o'r 22 arweinydd yn cyfarfod o bell gyda'r Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol, ac mae cyfleoedd i gael y sgyrsiau hynny i ddeall sut yr ydym yn defnyddio'r arian hwnnw. Rwy'n credu hefyd ei bod hi'n bwysig iawn cydnabod nad un ergyd yw hon. Rydym ni'n mynd i fod yn yr amgylchiadau eithriadol hyn am fisoedd i ddod, ac mae angen i ni wneud yn siŵr mai'r sgyrsiau tawel, rhesymegol ac, ar adegau, ymchwilgar y mae angen i ni eu cael yw'r ffordd yr ydym ni'n ymdrin â hyn yn hytrach na gwneud honiadau tipyn yn fwy anghyffredin. 

O ran cyfarpar diogelu personol, dydw i ddim yn siŵr fy mod wedi deall yn iawn y sylw yr oedd yr Aelod yn ei wneud; roedd yn ymddangos bod a wnelo'r sylw â dryswch ynghylch a yw cynghorau lleol yn gofyn sut y mae cyfarpar diogelu personol yn cael ei ddefnyddio mewn gofal sy'n gysylltiedig â nyrsio a gofal nad yw'n gysylltiedig â nyrsio, neu a yw'n ymwneud â'r ddarpariaeth. Ond, yn y pen draw, mae'r Llywodraeth yn talu am hynny i gyd. Rydym ni'n talu am y cyfarpar diogelu personol sy'n cael ei ddosbarthu i gartrefi nyrsio. Rydym ni'n talu am gyfarpar diogelu personol, p'un a yw pobl yn derbyn gofal nyrsio ai peidio. Ar adegau arferol, ni fyddem yn gwneud hynny, felly mae'n ddynodiad arall o'r cyfnod eithriadol yr ydym ni ynddo—y ffaith bod y Llywodraeth yn darparu'r gofal hwnnw i gyflogwyr sydd â chyfrifoldebau cyfreithiol am gyfarpar diogelu personol. Ond dyma'r unig ffordd o wneud yn siŵr bod cyfarpar diogelu personol digonol yn cyrraedd ein haelodau staff rheng flaen lle maen nhw'n darparu gofal i'n hetholwyr mewn gwirionedd.

O ran y taliad o £500, ceir sgyrsiau a thrafodaethau parhaus ynghylch sut y gwneir y taliad hwnnw i bobl sy'n darparu gofal cymdeithasol rheng flaen. Ac rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith bod yr Aelod eisiau gweld pobl yn cael hynny yn eu pocedi; rwy'n gobeithio y bydd yn ymuno â ni i ofyn i Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig sicrhau y darperir hynny am ddim. Byddai hynny'n fonws i'w groesawu i'r aelodau staff hyn sy'n cael eu talu'n gymharol isel. Ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd hi a'i grŵp yn lobïo'r Canghellor a Llywodraeth y DU i wneud yn siŵr bod hynny'n digwydd, yn hytrach na gweld rhywfaint o'r arian hwnnw'n cael ei fachu ar ffurf treth ac Yswiriant Gwladol. Ond mae'n sgwrs weithredol rhwng cyflogwyr, undebau llafur a'r Llywodraeth ynghylch sut y dylid gweithio ar fanylion hynny, er enghraifft, i wneud yn siŵr nad yw taliad untro yn effeithio ar daliadau budd-dal mewn gwaith i rai o'r aelodau staff hyn. Ni fyddwn i eisiau gweld y bobl hyn yn cael eu cosbi oherwydd arwydd gwirioneddol o gydnabyddiaeth o'r cyfnod eithriadol y mae'r aelodau staff hyn yn byw ynddo, a'r gofal y maen nhw'n ei ddarparu ym mhob un o'n cymunedau.

15:35

Weinidog, rhestrir y gweithwyr llywodraeth leol a chenedlaethol yn glir fel gweithwyr allweddol gan Lywodraeth Cymru gogyfer polisi profi Llywodraeth Cymru. Serch hynny, rydym ni wedi clywed am enghreifftiau o weithwyr yr Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau yng Nghymru yn cael eu gwrthod rhag derbyn profion COVID. Mae yna adroddiadau bod y DWP ei hunan yn dweud wrth ei staff sydd yn gweithio yma yng Nghymru i fynd i Fryste i gael prawf. Felly, all y Gweinidog gadarnhau y bydd yn sicrhau bod gweithwyr allweddol sydd angen prawf COVID yn gallu cael un yma yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys y sawl yma yng Nghymru sy'n gweithio i adrannau Llywodraeth sydd heb eto gael eu datganoli i'r Senedd hon?

Minister, local government workers and national Government workers are clearly designated as key workers by the Welsh Government for the Government's testing programme. However, we have heard examples of workers within the Department for Work and Pensions in Wales being refused testing for COVID. There are reports that the DWP itself is telling its staff who are working here in Wales to go to Bristol to access testing. So, can the Minister confirm that he will ensure that key workers who need a COVID test can access that test here in Wales, including those here in Wales working for departments of Government that have yet to be devolved to this Senedd?

Well I won't draw up the invitation that the Member has given to get involved in the wider constitutional debate about which departments are and aren't devolved, but I'm aware of the issue at both the DWP and also the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, and those issues are being addressed. If the Member still has people coming to him towards the end of this week who are saying the issue hasn't been resolved, then I'd ask him to write to me, because it's a matter, like I said, that I'm aware of and is being addressed with both the local health board and indeed Public Health Wales.

Wel, wnaf i ddim ymateb i'r gwahoddiad y mae'r Aelod wedi'i roi i gymryd rhan yn y drafodaeth gyfansoddiadol ehangach ynghylch pa adrannau sydd wedi'u datganoli, ond rwy'n ymwybodol o'r mater yn yr Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau a hefyd yr Asiantaeth Trwyddedu Gyrwyr a Cherbydau, ac rydym yn mynd i'r afael â'r materion hynny. Os oes gan yr Aelod bobl yn dal i ddod ato tua diwedd yr wythnos hon sy'n dweud nad yw'r mater wedi cael ei ddatrys, yna byddwn yn gofyn iddo ysgrifennu ataf, oherwydd mae'n fater, fel y dywedais, yr wyf yn ymwybodol ohono ac mae yn cael ei drafod gyda'r bwrdd iechyd lleol ac yn wir Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru.

In my discussions with public health bodies, a figure of 3,000 staff has been identified to make the trace system work. The latest figures I've been given is that, for every one person who is identified with the virus during the tracing process, a further 20 to 30 people would need to be traced. You've said that staff doing that tracing will come primarily from local authorities. So can I ask, from what kinds of jobs should the staff doing this work be deployed? What training and expertise will they require, and who will design and deliver this training? And are you confident the staff can be found in sufficient number?

Yn fy nhrafodaethau gyda chyrff iechyd cyhoeddus, mae 3,000 o staff wedi cael eu dynodi i wneud i'r system olrhain weithio. Y ffigurau diweddaraf a roddwyd i mi yw, ar gyfer pob un y canfyddir fod y feirws arno yn ystod y broses olrhain, y byddai angen olrhain rhwng 20 a 30 o bobl eraill. Rydych chi wedi dweud y bydd y staff sy'n olrhain yn dod o awdurdodau lleol yn bennaf. Felly a gaf i ofyn, o ba fath o swyddi y dylai'r staff sy'n gwneud y gwaith hwn gael eu rhyddhau? Pa hyfforddiant ac arbenigedd fydd eu hangen arnyn nhw, a phwy fydd yn cynllunio ac yn darparu'r hyfforddiant hwn? Ac a ydych chi'n ffyddiog y gellir dod o hyd i'r staff mewn niferoedd digonol?

Okay. Thank you. In terms of the numbers, we've updated the numbers from the initial draft that Public Health Wales provided. That's why we get to the figure of 1,000 that we published today; that's the reason. But as I explained earlier, you can expect the number to move around. And that's part of the challenge here, because when we start—if we're going to start from 1 June, for the sake of argument—we may not need everyone and that full 1,000 at that point in time. We need to have enough people trained though so the system is robust. And, actually, Public Health Wales are working with the rest of the system on the training for what people will need to be able to do, how they run through that and the scripts they'll have to use, and then how they will need to record that information. That's all being worked through. And you'll see the trial of that—some of the trial of that, at least—next week, which will help to inform and I think further advance that work.

In terms of not just the numbers, but where they're coming from, local government have been really keen to play an active part in this, because they already have people who have got IT skills, who are used to using IT as a regular part of their job, who are keen to have work to do. They're really committed public servants, even in their specific area of work they were doing before lockdown, and because of lockdown, some of those activities aren't taking place as well. So, there are people who want to be redeployed, who want to work in this area. Now, that means that we've got a group of staff. The Welsh Local Government Association, again across all different political leaderships, in different parts of the country, say that there are enough staff to meet the need that we'll have for, if you like, that contact tracing team. So, we're relying on the detailed conversations that are taking place there.

But there will then be a challenge, if we are able to successfully unlock further areas of activity over a period of months, as to what that will mean in terms of the financial pressures, but also then, if other areas of activity are returning, it's about how we make sure that we don't suddenly lose staff who are working in this way, but to make sure that the whole system is still robust and can effectively work. And those are things we're continuing to work through with local government. But I really do think that, for the first stage of contact tracing, it'll be essentially a local government resource that will do that, in partnership with their local health boards. I do have a good measure of confidence that we'll have enough staff to make this work and we will of course need to address a range of challenges to make sure those staff are still in place in the right number in the months ahead, because we're talking about many, many months of a contact tracing system in place when the test, trace, protect model will need to be active right across Wales.

Iawn. Diolch. O ran y niferoedd, rydym wedi diweddaru'r niferoedd ers y drafft cychwynnol a ddarparwyd gan Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru. Dyna pam ein bod yn cyrraedd y ffigur o 1,000 a gyhoeddwyd gennym ni heddiw; dyna'r rheswm. Ond fel yr eglurais yn gynharach, gallwch ddisgwyl i'r rhif newid. Ac mae hynny'n rhan o'r her yn y fan yma, oherwydd pan fyddwn ni'n dechrau—os ydym ni'n mynd i ddechrau o 1 Mehefin, er enghraifft—efallai nad oes angen pawb arnom ni a'r 1,000 yn llawn bryd hynny. Mae angen i ni gael digon o bobl wedi'u hyfforddi er mwyn sicrhau bod y system yn gadarn. Ac, mewn gwirionedd, mae Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn gweithio gyda gweddill y system ar yr hyfforddiant ar gyfer yr hyn y bydd angen i bobl allu ei wneud, beth fydd y drefn a'r sgriptiau y bydd yn rhaid iddyn nhw eu defnyddio, ac yna sut y bydd angen iddyn nhw gofnodi'r wybodaeth honno. Mae hynny i gyd ar y gweill. A byddwch yn gweld yr arbrofi gyda hynny—rhywfaint o'r arbrofi hynny, o leiaf—yr wythnos nesaf, a fydd yn helpu i lywio ac rwy'n credu i ddatblygu ymhellach y gwaith hwnnw.

O ran nid yn unig y niferoedd, ond o le maen nhw'n dod, mae llywodraeth leol wedi bod yn awyddus iawn i chwarae rhan weithredol yn hyn, oherwydd bod ganddyn nhw eisoes bobl sydd â sgiliau TG, sydd wedi arfer defnyddio TG yn rhan reolaidd o'u swydd, ac sy'n awyddus i gael gwaith. Maen nhw'n weision cyhoeddus ymroddedig iawn, hyd yn oed yn eu maes gwaith penodol yr oeddent yn ei wneud cyn y cyfyngiadau symud, ac oherwydd y cyfyngiadau symud, nid yw rhai o'r gweithgareddau hynny yn digwydd chwaith. Felly, mae yna bobl sydd eisiau cael eu hadleoli, sydd eisiau gweithio yn y maes hwn. Nawr, mae hynny'n golygu bod gennym ni grŵp o staff. Mae Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, a'r arweinyddiaeth wleidyddol wahanol o bob lliw, unwaith eto, mewn gwahanol rannau o'r wlad, yn dweud bod digon o staff i gwrdd â'r angen a fydd gennym ni, os mynnwch chi, ar gyfer y tîm olrhain cyswllt hwnnw. Felly, rydym ni'n dibynnu ar y sgyrsiau manwl sy'n cael eu cynnal.

Ond bydd her wedyn, os gallwn ni godi'r cyfyngiadau mewn meysydd gweithgarwch pellach dros gyfnod o fisoedd yn llwyddiannus, o ran yr hyn y bydd hynny'n ei olygu o ran y pwysau ariannol, ond hefyd wedyn, os bydd meysydd gweithgarwch eraill yn dychwelyd, mae'n ymwneud â sut y byddwn yn sicrhau nad ydym yn sydyn yn colli staff sy'n gweithio fel hyn, ond i wneud yn siŵr bod y system gyfan yn dal yn gadarn ac yn gallu gweithio'n effeithiol. Ac mae'r rhain yn bethau yr ydym yn parhau i weithio drwyddyn nhw gyda llywodraeth leol. Ond rwy'n credu mewn gwirionedd, ar gyfer y cam cyntaf o olrhain cyswllt, mai adnodd o lywodraeth leol fydd yn gwneud hynny yn y bôn, mewn partneriaeth â'u byrddau iechyd lleol. Mae gennyf lawer o ffydd y bydd gennym ni ddigon o staff i wneud i hyn weithio a bydd angen i ni, wrth gwrs, fynd i'r afael ag amrywiaeth o heriau er mwyn sicrhau bod y staff hynny yn dal yn eu lle yn y niferoedd priodol yn y misoedd i ddod, oherwydd ein bod yn sôn am lawer iawn o fisoedd o system olrhain cyswllt ar waith pan fydd yn rhaid i'r model profi, olrhain, diogelu fod yn weithredol ledled Cymru.

15:40

Minister, could you tell me what testing is being done in Wales of prisoners before they're released back into the community, please?

Gweinidog, a allech chi ddweud wrthyf pa brofion sy'n cael eu cynnal yng Nghymru ar garcharorion cyn eu rhyddhau'n ôl i'r gymuned, os gwelwch yn dda?

That would depend on the referrals made from the prison service. It's difficult, because when they're within the prison service, they're in a non-devolved service and then, if they're going to leave, they'll very quickly come into contact with, in the great majority of cases, devolved services, whether it's housing support or whether indeed it's social care needs that a number of people have. If you think about the prison in Usk, a lot of people there are actually quite old and they have a range of care and support needs. But the testing should be in accordance with our broader testing policy, whether people are unsymptomatic, and, of course, that goes for staff as well.

Byddai hynny'n dibynnu ar yr atgyfeiriadau y mae'r gwasanaeth carchardai yn eu gwneud. Mae'n anodd, oherwydd pan fyddan nhw o fewn y gwasanaeth carchardai, maen nhw mewn gwasanaeth sydd heb ei ddatganoli ac yna, os ydyn nhw'n mynd i adael, byddan nhw'n dod i gysylltiad yn gyflym iawn â gwasanaethau datganoledig, yn y mwyafrif helaeth o achosion, boed yn gymorth tai neu yn wir anghenion gofal cymdeithasol, sydd gan nifer o bobl. Os ydych chi'n meddwl am y carchar ym Mrynbuga, mae llawer o bobl yno mewn gwirionedd yn eithaf hen ac mae ganddyn nhw amrywiaeth o anghenion gofal a chymorth. Ond dylai'r profion fod yn unol â'n polisi profion ehangach, pa un ai a oes gan bobl symptomau ai peidio, ac, wrth gwrs, mae hynny'n wir am staff hefyd.

Can I ask you, Minister, one of the issues that we went into before this pandemic was that on the agenda of many local health boards was the prospect of significant reorganisation of some of their services? Now obviously, because of this particular crisis, many health boards have frozen their plans and aren't progressing with them, understandably, but you may be aware that the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board is due to look at its vascular services—it was due to receive a paper at its health board meeting this week. I'm pleased that they have deferred consideration of that paper, because it was not published within sufficient time to meet the Government's requirements of the board—i.e. before seven days in advance of the meeting. But can you tell us: will you reassure the public that there will not be significant reorganisations of services done in the background while we're dealing with this crisis, in order that all of the energy of the health service can be focused absolutely on dealing with what is the major challenge at the moment, which is COVID-19?

A gaf i ofyn i chi, Gweinidog, un o'r materion yr aethom i'r afael ag ef cyn y pandemig hwn oedd hwnnw a oedd ar agenda llawer o fyrddau iechyd lleol sef y posibilrwydd o ad-drefnu rhai o'u gwasanaethau'n sylweddol? Yn amlwg bellach, oherwydd yr argyfwng penodol hwn, mae llawer o fyrddau iechyd wedi gohirio eu cynlluniau ac nid ydynt yn bwrw ymlaen â nhw, a hynny'n ddealladwy, ond efallai eich bod yn ymwybodol bod Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr i fod i ystyried ei wasanaethau fasgwlaidd—roedd i fod i gael papur yn ei gyfarfod bwrdd iechyd yr wythnos hon. Rwy'n falch ei fod wedi gohirio ystyried y papur hwnnw, gan na chafodd ei gyhoeddi o fewn digon o amser i gwrdd â gofynion y Llywodraeth ar gyfer y bwrdd—hynny yw, saith diwrnod cyn y cyfarfod. Ond a wnewch chi ddweud wrthym ni: a wnewch chi roi sicrwydd i'r cyhoedd na fydd unrhyw ad-drefnu sylweddol ar wasanaethau yn y cefndir wrth inni ymdrin â'r argyfwng hwn, fel y gall y gwasanaeth iechyd ganolbwyntio ei holl egni yn llwyr ar ymdrin â'r hyn yw'r brif her ar hyn o bryd, sef COVID-19?

Well, the health service has been reorganised, effectively, to deal with this major challenge. We were talking earlier about some of the challenges of non-COVID harm that had taken place because we've had to refocus our whole service in the way we scale up different parts of the service, from creating a field hospital to the extra critical care capacity that we've got. So, the broader reform agenda that 'A Healthier Wales' set out has obviously had to be largely paused.

But as we return to having more activity, we're still going to need to consider how we operate effective services in this changed environment and what it means for the future. But I would not expect that there would be a new and radically different proposal that we introduced—it's rather difficult to engage our own staff in those or indeed the public. The caveat that I think we do need though, and we all need to be grown up about this, is that there could be changes to services that have to take place from a patient safety point of view, and what I wouldn't want to do is for us to be saying that that could not take place because of the wider pandemic. But if there's any idea that change will be sneaked through or pushed through under the radar, that isn't going to happen. But more than that, though, we will need to think about how we take forward some of the things that have happened, so, for example, the changes in greater use of technology and the opportunity to reform out-patients. There'll be a range of things that we will want to do and not simply go back, in every aspect, to the way things were before. But on vascular services, for example, I certainly don't anticipate there being a major change, but that would be a matter for the board, with the paper that they consider and the review that they've already instituted and have put in place.

Wel, mae'r gwasanaeth iechyd wedi cael ei aildrefnu, i bob pwrpas, i ymdrin â'r her fawr hon. Buom yn siarad yn gynharach am rai o'r heriau o ran niwed nad yw'n gysylltiedig â COVID a ddigwyddodd oherwydd ein bod wedi gorfod ail-ganolbwyntio ein gwasanaeth cyfan yn y ffordd yr ydym yn cynyddu gwahanol rannau o'r gwasanaeth, o greu ysbyty maes i'r gallu gofal critigol ychwanegol sydd gennym ni. Felly, mae'n amlwg bod yr agenda ddiwygio ehangach y sonnir amdani yn 'Cymru Iachach' wedi cael ei gohirio i raddau helaeth.

Ond wrth i bethau ddechrau prysuro eto, byddwn yn dal i orfod ystyried sut yr ydym yn gweithredu gwasanaethau effeithiol yn y sefyllfa wahanol hon a beth mae hynny'n ei olygu ar gyfer y dyfodol. Ond ni fyddwn yn disgwyl y byddem yn cyflwyno cynnig newydd a sylfaenol wahanol—mae'n anodd iawn ymgysylltu â'n staff ein hunain ynghylch yr agweddau hynny neu'n wir y cyhoedd. Yr amod rwy'n credu sydd ei angen arnom ni fodd bynnag, ac mae angen i ni i gyd fod yn aeddfed ynghylch hyn, yw efallai y bydd yn rhaid addasu rhai gwasanaethau o safbwynt diogelwch cleifion, a'r hyn na fyddwn i eisiau ei wneud yw dweud na allai hynny ddigwydd oherwydd y pandemig ehangach. Ond os oes unrhyw syniad y newidir pethau'n llechwraidd neu yn ddiarwybod i bobl, nid yw hynny'n mynd i ddigwydd. Ond yn fwy na hynny, fodd bynnag, bydd angen inni feddwl sut y byddwn yn bwrw ymlaen â rhai o'r pethau sydd wedi digwydd, felly, er enghraifft, y newidiadau o ran defnyddio mwy o dechnoleg a'r cyfle i ddiwygio gofal cleifion allanol. Bydd amryw o bethau y byddwn ni eisiau eu gwneud yn hytrach na dychwelyd, ym mhob agwedd, at y ffordd yr oedd pethau o'r blaen. Ond o ran gwasanaethau fasgwlaidd, er enghraifft, yn sicr nid wyf yn rhagweld y bydd newid mawr, ond mater i'r bwrdd fyddai hynny, gyda'r papur y maen nhw'n ei ystyried a'r adolygiad y maen nhw eisoes wedi'i sefydlu a'i roi ar waith. 

Research published this week from the Office for National Statistics shows that people living in poverty are more susceptible to catching COVID-19, no doubt for a variety of reasons relating to poor housing and the likelihood of them being in jobs where social distancing is not possible. People living in poverty are also more likely to have medical conditions that make the virus more severe. Now, I represent an area where poverty is particularly rife, so these numbers were really sobering.

Minister, none of the factors that have led to this poverty were inevitable; they're the product of political choices of Governments that have condemned some sections of society to an increased risk. If poverty were treated with the seriousness of a national security threat, it would not have been allowed to proliferate. But it does undermine our biosecurity, so I'd ask you, Minister, what assessment you make of this link between poverty and the deaths from the virus, and what steps the Government will take to counter this scourge of poverty that's risen over the past 20 years? What measures will you take to reduce the R rate in poorer areas? 

Mae ymchwil a gyhoeddwyd yr wythnos hon gan y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol yn dangos bod pobl sy'n byw mewn tlodi yn fwy tueddol o ddal COVID-19, yn ddi-os am amryw o resymau'n ymwneud â thai gwael a'r tebygrwydd y byddan nhw mewn swyddi lle nad yw cadw pellter cymdeithasol yn bosib. Mae pobl sy'n byw mewn tlodi hefyd yn fwy tebygol o gael cyflyrau meddygol sy'n gwneud y feirws yn fwy difrifol. Nawr, rwy'n cynrychioli ardal lle mae tlodi yn arbennig o rhemp, felly roedd y niferoedd hyn yn sobreiddiol iawn.

Gweinidog, nid oedd yr un o'r ffactorau sydd wedi arwain at y tlodi hwn yn anochel; maen nhw'n gynnyrch dewisiadau gwleidyddol llywodraethau sydd wedi condemnio rhai carfannau o gymdeithas i fwy o risg. Pe cai tlodi ei drin gyda difrifoldeb bygythiad diogelwch cenedlaethol, ni fyddid wedi caniatáu iddo ymledu. Ond mae yn tanseilio ein bioddiogelwch, felly gofynnwn i chi, Gweinidog, beth yw eich asesiad o'r cysylltiad hwn rhwng tlodi a'r marwolaethau yn sgil y feirws, a beth fydd y Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i wrthweithio'r pla hwn o dlodi sydd wedi codi dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf? Beth fyddwch chi'n ei wneud i leihau'r gyfradd R mewn ardaloedd tlotach?

15:45

Thank you. Well, it's no surprise to me that people who are the least well-off in our country run the greatest risks in terms of their health. There is a direct relationship between poor health and poor economic outcomes as well that don't match the talent that exists in those communities, and I see that within my own constituency that I'm proud and privileged to represent. It's a picture that many of us in the Assembly will recognise.

The challenge of where you have poorer ill-health outcomes to start off with and then having widespread communal spread of COVID-19 and then you have the overlay of how closely people live together, people's inability, potentially, to travel to work in their own car—. I represent one of the parts of the country that has one of the lowest levels of car ownerships; there are different challenges that people face in how they live their lives. But it also reiterates the importance of the test, trace and protect scheme that we're going to be introducing across the country. It's about protecting people from that harm that would otherwise take place. It's the importance of the social distancing rules. The further people adhere to that guidance and those rules, the more likely we are to prevent harm taking place in any family or any community.

And I can honestly and absolutely say that, for this Government, the achievement of social justice drove us and Government-supporting backbenchers into politics in the first place. It's the reason I gave up my other job to stand for election; it's the reason I joined my political party; and it's right at the centre the reason for being of this Welsh Labour-led Government. I'm proud that it is.

We'll have a great deal more to do at the end of the coronavirus pandemic, though, because we will see harm that will have been unequally distributed across our country, and that's why the path to recovery has to take account of that and think about how we rebuild and remodel, not just our economy, but the values that drive our choices. For example, the value we place on social care workers, who we'll all applaud on a Thursday evening, but then to consider how much we are prepared to pay them, what we expect them to do in caring for some of our vulnerable citizens and what sort of society we want to build around that to make those choices possible. 

Diolch. Wel, nid yw'n syndod i mi mai'r bobl leiaf cefnog yn ein gwlad ni sydd â'r risgiau mwyaf o ran eu hiechyd. Mae perthynas uniongyrchol rhwng iechyd gwael a chanlyniadau economaidd gwael hefyd nad ydyn nhw'n cyfateb i'r dalent sy'n bodoli yn y cymunedau hynny, ac rwy'n gweld hynny yn fy etholaeth fy hun yr wyf yn falch o'i chynrychioli ac mae'n fraint i wneud hynny. Mae'n ddarlun y bydd llawer ohonom ni yn y Cynulliad yn ei gydnabod.

Yr her pan fo gennych chi ganlyniadau afiechyd gwaeth i ddechrau ac yna lledaeniad cymunedol eang o COVID-19 ac yna rydych yn cael y troshaenau o ran pa mor agos y mae pobl yn byw gyda'i gilydd, anallu pobl, o bosibl, i deithio i'r gwaith yn eu car eu hunain—. Rwy'n cynrychioli un o'r rhannau o'r wlad sydd ag un o'r lefelau isaf o berchenogaeth ceir; mae heriau gwahanol y mae pobl yn eu hwynebu o ran sut y maen nhw'n byw eu bywydau. Ond mae hefyd yn ailadrodd pwysigrwydd y cynllun profi, olrhain a diogelu y byddwn ni'n ei gyflwyno ledled y wlad. Mae'n ymwneud ag amddiffyn pobl rhag y niwed hwnnw a fyddai'n digwydd fel arall. Pwysigrwydd y rheolau cadw pellter cymdeithasol. Po fwyaf y bydd pobl yn cadw at y canllawiau hynny a'r rheolau hynny, y mwyaf tebygol yr ydym o atal niwed rhag digwydd mewn unrhyw deulu neu unrhyw gymuned.

A gallaf ddweud yn onest ac yn llwyr, i'r Llywodraeth hon, fod sicrhau cyfiawnder cymdeithasol wedi ein hysgogi ni a'r meincwyr cefn sy'n cefnogi'r Llywodraeth i mewn i wleidyddiaeth yn y lle cyntaf. Dyma'r rheswm y rhoddais y gorau i fy swydd arall er mwyn sefyll mewn etholiad; dyma'r rheswm yr ymunais â'm plaid wleidyddol; ac mae wrth wraidd y rheswm am fodolaeth y Llywodraeth hon dan arweiniad Llafur Cymru. Rwy'n falch ei fod.

Bydd gennym lawer iawn mwy i'w wneud ar ddiwedd y pandemig coronafeirws, fodd bynnag, oherwydd byddwn yn gweld niwed a fydd wedi'i ddosbarthu'n anghyfartal ar draws ein gwlad, a dyna pam y mae'n rhaid i'r llwybr at adferiad ystyried hynny a meddwl sut yr ydym yn ailadeiladu ac ailfodelu, nid yn unig ein heconomi, ond y gwerthoedd sy'n ysgogi ein dewisiadau. Er enghraifft, y gwerth yr ydym yn ei roi ar weithwyr gofal cymdeithasol, y byddwn ni i gyd yn eu cymeradwyo ar nos Iau, ond wedyn i ystyried faint yr ydym yn barod i'w talu, yr hyn yr ydym yn disgwyl iddyn nhw ei wneud wrth ofalu am rai o'n dinasyddion sy'n agored i niwed a pha fath o gymdeithas yr ydym ni eisiau ei datblygu i wneud y dewisiadau hynny'n bosibl.  

Minister, earlier this week, BBC One Wales aired the programme Critical: Coronavirus in Intensive Care. It was filmed by staff themselves in the Royal Gwent Hospital in my constituency showing them working together in extreme circumstances with dedication, kindness and humour, expertly caring for patients with compassion. The struggles and challenges were there for all to see: working long shifts in full PPE, not being able to see facial expressions of those you're working with and seeing so many people not able to pull through. It's difficult to watch, but the camaraderie and spirit shown by the incredible NHS staff is nothing short of amazing and we owe them our deepest gratitude. The staff are under no illusions in these difficult times that it will end anytime soon.

While in the Royal Gwent Hospital and Aneurin Bevan University Health Board more generally, the numbers on ICU are back within their normal capacity, the concern over any further waves is most certainly there. What support and guidance can the Welsh Government give for those who've been at the front line of this pandemic for over three months to ensure that they have time to recover and are prepared for whatever comes next? And what assessments have you made of the needs of the workforce over the coming weeks and months ahead? And how can workforce planning reflect this?  

Gweinidog, yn gynharach yr wythnos hon, fe wnaeth BBC One Wales ddarlledu'r rhaglen Critical: Coronavirus in Intensive Care. Fe'i ffilmiwyd gan y staff eu hunain yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent yn fy etholaeth i gan eu dangos yn gweithio gyda'i gilydd mewn amgylchiadau eithafol gydag ymroddiad, caredigrwydd a hiwmor, gan ofalu'n fedrus am gleifion â thosturi. Roedd y brwydrau a'r heriau yno i bawb eu gweld: gweithio sifftiau hir mewn PPE llawn, methu â gweld mynegiant wyneb y rhai yr ydych chi'n gweithio gyda nhw a gweld cymaint o bobl nad ydyn nhw'n gallu gwella. Mae'n anodd ei wylio, ond mae'r cyfeillgarwch a'r ysbryd a ddangoswyd gan staff anhygoel y GIG yn gwbl ryfeddol ac rydym yn ddiolchgar iawn iddyn nhw. Nid yw'r staff dan unrhyw gamargraff yn y cyfnod anodd hwn y bydd yn dod i ben yn fuan.

Tra bo'r niferoedd ar unedau gofal dwys yn ôl o fewn eu capasiti arferol yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent a Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Aneurin Bevan yn fwy cyffredinol, yn sicr ceir pryder ynghylch unrhyw gynnydd pellach mewn achosion yno. Pa gymorth ac arweiniad y gall Llywodraeth Cymru eu rhoi i'r rheini sydd wedi bod yn rheng flaen y pandemig hwn am dros dri mis i sicrhau bod ganddyn nhw amser i adfer a'u bod yn barod am beth bynnag a ddaw nesaf? A pha asesiadau ydych chi wedi'u gwneud o anghenion y gweithlu dros yr wythnosau a'r misoedd nesaf? A sut y gall cynllunio'r gweithlu adlewyrchu hyn?

Thank you. I think it's—[Inaudible.] I've obviously visited the Royal Gwent with Jayne Bryant in her constituency on a number of occasions, and there are people who I know and have met on several occasions who work there, and I'm not surprised at all to see compassion, care and camaraderie reflected in the programme that went out.

In terms of what we're doing, we're working with the Welsh Partnership Forum that brings together the employers and indeed the staff side within the health service to look at what happens in the future. It's a regular feature, one I'm really proud of. We invest lots of time, energy and effort in those workplace relationships here in Wales, and in particular in our health service.

I've actually agreed to further fund the health for health professionals service. We've trialled that and we've rolled that out more consistently so there's more practical support for staff who I know are finding some of the challenges that they have gone through on behalf of all of us difficult. And we shouldn’t try to pretend that these people are able to simply carry on and on and on working the length of time they work for with all of the challenges and the real difficulties that they see as well. So, the scaling up of critical care capacity doesn’t come cost-free—there is a cost for our staff that they have paid as well.

And for me, in so many ways, it reiterates the importance of our 'stay at home, stay safe, stay local' message, because the best thing that we can do to support those staff is to follow the rules. These aren’t silly rules that have been thought up capriciously by a Government that is doing something because it can do; these are serious rules to help protect the public and to keep more of us alive. And it's why we're in this position now, with a peak that we reached earlier than initially expected, and fewer people having suffered real and unavoidable and permanent harm, including mortality, because of the rules that the public have followed.

And that will be really important as we phase out of lockdown—that people continue to remember that, because those staff need a break. And when we get into more stages of reaching past lockdown, people should not behave as if the world can be normal again and ignore social distancing rules when they’re in place. Because that will see more people going into those intensive care units and more pressure on our staff. And I hope that people consider that, not just on a Thursday when we're out applauding and cheering the NHS and key workers, but when we go about our day-to-day business as well.   

Diolch. Rwy'n credu ei fod yn—[Anhyglyw.] Yn amlwg, rwyf wedi ymweld ag Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent gyda Jayne Bryant yn ei hetholaeth ar sawl achlysur, ac mae yna bobl yr wyf yn eu hadnabod ac wedi'u cyfarfod ar sawl achlysur sy'n gweithio yno, ac nid wyf yn synnu o gwbl i weld tosturi, gofal a chyfeillgarwch yn cael eu hadlewyrchu yn y rhaglen a ddarlledwyd.

O ran yr hyn yr ydym ni'n ei wneud, rydym yn gweithio gyda Fforwm Partneriaeth Cymru sy'n dod â'r cyflogwyr ac, yn wir, y staff yn y gwasanaeth iechyd at ei gilydd i edrych ar beth fydd yn digwydd yn y dyfodol. Mae'n nodwedd reolaidd, un yr wyf yn falch iawn ohoni. Rydym ni'n buddsoddi llawer o amser, egni ac ymdrech yn y cydberthnasau hynny yn y gweithle yma yng Nghymru, ac yn arbennig yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd.

Rwyf mewn gwirionedd wedi cytuno i ddarparu rhagor o gyllid i'r gwasanaeth iechyd ar gyfer gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol. Rydym wedi treialu hwnnw ac rydym wedi'i gyflwyno'n fwy cyson felly mae mwy o gymorth ymarferol i staff y gwn fod rhai o'r heriau y maen nhw wedi'u hwynebu ar ran pob un ohonom wedi bod yn anodd iddyn nhw. Ac ni ddylem geisio esgus bod y bobl hyn yn gallu parhau i weithio am y cyfnod o amser y maen nhw yn ei weithio gyda'r holl heriau a'r anawsterau gwirioneddol y maen nhw yn eu gweld hefyd. Felly, nid yw cynyddu capasiti gofal critigol yn dod heb gost—mae cost i'n staff y maen nhw wedi'i thalu hefyd.

Ac i mi, mewn cynifer o ffyrdd, mae'n ail-bwysleisio pwysigrwydd ein neges 'aros gartref, aros yn ddiogel, aros yn lleol', oherwydd y peth gorau y gallwn ni ei wneud i gefnogi'r staff hynny yw dilyn y rheolau. Nid rheolau gwirion yw'r rhain sydd wedi eu llunio yn fympwyol gan Lywodraeth sy'n gwneud rhywbeth oherwydd ei bod yn gallu; mae'r rhain yn rheolau difrifol i helpu i ddiogelu'r cyhoedd ac i gadw mwy ohonom yn fyw. A dyna pam yr ydym ni yn y sefyllfa hon yn awr, gyda brig y gwnaethom ni ei gyrraedd yn gynharach na'r disgwyl, a llai o bobl wedi dioddef niwed go iawn ac anochel a pharhaol, gan gynnwys marwolaethau, oherwydd y rheolau y mae'r cyhoedd wedi'u dilyn.

A bydd hynny'n bwysig iawn wrth inni ddirwyn y cyfyngiadau symud i ben—bod pobl yn dal i gofio hynny, oherwydd mae angen seibiant ar y staff hynny. A phan fyddwn ni'n dod at fwy o gamau o fynd heibio i'r cyfyngiadau symud, ni ddylai pobl ymddwyn fel pe bai'r byd yn gallu bod yn normal eto ac anwybyddu rheolau cadw pellter cymdeithasol pan fyddan nhw ar waith. Oherwydd bydd hynny'n gweld mwy o bobl yn mynd i mewn i'r unedau gofal dwys hynny a mwy o bwysau ar ein staff. Ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd pobl yn ystyried hynny, nid dim ond ar ddydd Iau pan fyddwn ni allan yn clapio ac yn cymeradwyo'r GIG a gweithwyr allweddol, ond pan fyddwn yn mynd o gwmpas ein busnes o ddydd i ddydd hefyd.    

15:50

Pa gefnogaeth ychwanegol fedrwch chi ei chynnig i wyddonwyr ym Mhrifysgol Bangor sy'n ymchwilio i lefelau o'r feirws yn y rhwydwaith carthffosiaeth? Er nad ydy'r feirws yn heintus ar y pwynt hwnnw, mae modd defnyddio'r dull yma i fesur faint o'r COVID-19 sydd mewn dinas neu dref gyfan. Ac ydych chi'n cytuno y gall yr ymchwil a'r dull yma o fesur lefelau COVID fod yn ddefnyddiol iawn ar gyfer monitro lledaeniad y feirws ar lefel leol, ac felly helpu i greu ymateb lleol wrth i amgylchiadau newid?

What additional support can you offer scientists at Bangor University who are carrying out research into levels of the virus in the sewerage network? Although it isn't infectious at that point, this approach can be used to measure how much COVID-19 exists within a city or a town environment. And do you agree that this approach and this research in measuring COVID levels could be very useful in monitoring the spread of the virus at a local level, thereby assisting in creating a local response as circumstances change?

Yes, which is why I highlighted it in my press conference yesterday. I made specific mention of the research that scientists at Bangor University are leading on. And whilst we don't necessarily like to think about what happens with our sewerage every day of the week, it is a really interesting and useful way to find out—and potentially at a much earlier stage, as you mention—what is happening within each local community, within each local system, both to give an early warning of where coronavirus is on the rise, but also to give us a better idea, crucially as well, of if there's been a sustained fall-off as well. So, you wouldn’t normally get excited about testing sewerage, but this is a really crucial area of research for us, and if we're able to understand it at scale, then it can be really useful, not just in Wales, but across the UK, and I'm very proud of the work that Bangor scientist are doing with Welsh Water and the United Utilities.

Ydw, a dyna pam y tynnais sylw ato yn fy nghynhadledd i'r wasg ddoe. Rwyf wedi sôn yn benodol am yr ymchwil y mae gwyddonwyr ym Mhrifysgol Bangor yn ei harwain. Ac er nad ydym o reidrwydd yn hoffi meddwl am beth sy'n digwydd gyda'n carthffosiaeth bob dydd o'r wythnos, mae'n ffordd ddiddorol a defnyddiol iawn o gael gwybod—ac o bosibl ar gam cynharach o lawer, fel y sonioch chi—beth sy'n digwydd ym mhob cymuned leol, ym mhob system leol, i roi rhybudd cynnar o le mae coronafeirws ar gynnydd, ond hefyd i roi gwell syniad i ni, yn hanfodol hefyd, a oes yna ostyngiad cyson wedi bod hefyd. Felly, ni fyddech fel rheol yn cyffroi am gynnal profion ar garthffosiaeth, ond mae hwn yn faes ymchwil hollbwysig i ni, ac os gallwn ni ei ddeall ar raddfa fwy, yna gall fod yn ddefnyddiol iawn, nid yn unig yng Nghymru, ond ledled y DU, ac rwy'n falch iawn o'r gwaith y mae'r gwyddonwyr hynny ym Mangor yn ei wneud gyda Dŵr Cymru ac United Utilities.

Minister, a couple of points. In your document, 'Test Trace Protect', it highlights the 10,000 that have already been mentioned and possibly up to 20,000, but there's anticipation in that document that some of the gap will be filled by UK Government-type testing. It's been previously mentioned that the testing in England is two swabs and testing in Wales is one swab, and therefore, they're not necessarily compatible in how they get the data into the Welsh NHS system. Are you now confident that that difference has been resolved and that, if you are using the UK test base, the data will be able to come into Wales and work with the Welsh NHS? That's one issue.

On care homes, can you please ensure that the advice from Public Health Wales is consistent with the guidance from Welsh Government? I have seen evidence from Public Health Wales telling a care home that, even though they've had COVID-19 in their home, that's an old situation and not current, and therefore, they would not be tested. Now, after some arguments, effectively, we managed to get that home tested and the staff tested, but they have a sister home in the same town that is not being tested and there are staff that'll transfer between the two. Again, the guidance from Welsh Government says that that's possible. Can you please ensure that Public Health Wales follows Welsh Government guidance and gives that information out to the care homes? Because it is confusing for the care homes when we're telling them your guidance and Public Health Wales is not, and it's important, therefore, that staff get tested. 

Gweinidog, un neu ddau o bwyntiau. Yn eich dogfen, 'Profi Olrhain Diogelu', mae'n tynnu sylw at y 10,000 sydd eisoes wedi'u crybwyll ac o bosibl hyd at 20,000, ond mae disgwyl yn y ddogfen honno y bydd rhywfaint o'r bwlch yn cael ei lenwi gan brofion tebyg i Lywodraeth y DU. Soniwyd o'r blaen mai dau swab yw'r profion yn Lloegr ac un swab yw'r profion yng Nghymru, ac felly, nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn gydnaws o ran sut y maen nhw'n cael y data i mewn i system GIG Cymru. A ydych chi yn awr yn ffyddiog bod y gwahaniaeth hwnnw wedi'i ddatrys ac, os ydych chi'n defnyddio sylfaen brawf y DU, y bydd y data'n gallu dod i Gymru a gweithio gyda GIG Cymru? Mae hynny'n un mater.

O ran cartrefi gofal, a wnewch chi sicrhau, os gwelwch yn dda, fod y cyngor gan Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn gyson â'r canllawiau gan Lywodraeth Cymru? Rwyf wedi gweld tystiolaeth gan Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn dweud wrth gartref gofal, er eu bod wedi bod â COVID-19 yn eu cartref, bod honno'n hen sefyllfa ac nad yw'n gyfredol, ac felly na fydden nhw'n cael eu profi. Nawr, ar ôl rhai dadleuon, i bob pwrpas, llwyddom i gael y profion yn y cartref hwnnw a phrofi'r staff, ond mae ganddyn nhw gartref arall cysylltiedig yn yr un dref nad yw'n cael ei brofi a bydd staff yn trosglwyddo rhwng y ddau. Unwaith eto, mae'r canllawiau gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn dweud bod hynny'n bosibl. A wnewch chi sicrhau bod Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn dilyn canllawiau Llywodraeth Cymru ac yn rhoi'r wybodaeth honno i'r cartrefi gofal? Oherwydd mae'n ddryslyd i'r cartrefi gofal pan fyddwn ni'n dweud wrthyn nhw am eich canllawiau chi ond nad yw Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn gwneud hynny, ac mae'n bwysig, felly, bod staff yn cael eu profi. 

15:55

Thank you. On both points, if I deal with—I think there are three points, if I may. Because on the data transfer, as I said earlier, that first point, that's been a key factor in being able to unlock that UK testing capacity and that system to come into Wales, because previously, it would have been of much more limited value, but now I think we can make proper use of it.

The difference between the two-swab and the one-swab test is the capacity that we've created here in Wales using the one-swab test we'll still make use of, but we'll also now be able to make use of the UK testing capacity. We just need to make sure that it goes to the right lab. So, for example, the home delivery service will be taking advantage of and taking part in the UK-wide arrangements. That means that those people will only get a two-swab test to self-administer, to return, and then that will be tested in the appropriate lab to make sure that we get the right result. So, I'm positive about the fact that we're not going to see a significant problem in the way that that's administered, but it's a fair point, and like I said, for me, the bigger issue is the data transfer.

On your point about care homes, I spoke today with NHS chairs and chief executives and I went through each of the health board areas the position they're in with care home testing specifically, and I've asked each health board to make sure that, within their local area, together with local government and the care home sector, that they provide a singular message within that local system about what testing is available and how to get hold of it and who to contact so that there's clarity within each part of the country. Because it's not a matter that gives me any great pleasure to understand that there are anecdotal differences in different parts of the country.

I know that Members are raising them because they're concerns that are being raised with them, but I'm more positive, as we sit down now, that real progress has been made over the last week and that the wrinkles that I recognise do still exist in other parts of the country are going to be resolved. And I could not have been clearer about my expectations, but the clarity in that message, should, I think, give reassurance to yourself and other Members across parties who want to hear that consistent message, and then, of course, the consistent implementation of it as well.

Diolch. O ran y ddau bwynt, os caf i ddelio â—rwy'n credu bod tri phwynt, os caf i. Oherwydd, ar y trosglwyddo data, fel y dywedais yn gynharach, y pwynt cyntaf hwnnw, mae hynny wedi bod yn ffactor allweddol o ran gallu datgloi'r capasiti hwnnw yn y DU a'r system honno i ddod i Gymru, oherwydd yn flaenorol, byddai wedi bod o werth llawer mwy cyfyngedig, ond rwy'n credu y gallwn ni yn awr wneud defnydd priodol ohono.

Y gwahaniaeth rhwng y prawf dau swab a'r prawf un swab yw'r capasiti yr ydym wedi'i greu yma yng Nghymru gan ddefnyddio'r prawf un swab y byddwn ni yn dal i'w ddefnyddio, ond byddwn hefyd yn gallu defnyddio capasiti profi y DU. Y cyfan sydd angen i ni ei wneud yw sicrhau ei fod yn mynd i'r labordy cywir. Felly, er enghraifft, bydd y gwasanaeth danfon i'r cartref yn manteisio ar drefniadau'r DU gyfan ac yn cymryd rhan ynddyn nhw. Mae hynny'n golygu y bydd y bobl hynny dim ond yn cael prawf dau swab i'w hunan-weinyddu, ei ddychwelyd, ac yna caiff hwnnw ei brofi yn y labordy priodol i wneud yn siŵr ein bod yn cael y canlyniad cywir. Felly, rwy'n gadarnhaol am y ffaith nad ydym yn mynd i weld problem sylweddol yn y ffordd y mae hynny'n cael ei weinyddu, ond mae'n bwynt teg, ac fel y dywedais, i mi, y mater mwy yw trosglwyddo data.

Ynghylch y pwynt a wnaethoch chi am gartrefi gofal, siaradais heddiw â chadeiryddion a phrif weithredwyr y GIG ac euthum drwy bob un o'r byrddau iechyd, y sefyllfa y maen nhw ynddi o ran profi cartrefi gofal yn benodol, ac rwyf wedi gofyn i bob bwrdd iechyd sicrhau, o fewn eu hardal leol, ynghyd â llywodraeth leol a'r sector cartrefi gofal, eu bod yn rhoi un neges yn y system leol honno ynghylch pa brofion sydd ar gael a sut i gael gafael arnyn nhw ac â phwy i gysylltu er mwyn sicrhau eglurder ym mhob rhan o'r wlad. Oherwydd, nid yw'n fater sy'n rhoi pleser mawr imi ddeall bod gwahaniaethau anecdotaidd mewn gwahanol rannau o'r wlad.

Gwn fod Aelodau'n eu codi oherwydd eu bod yn bryderon sy'n cael eu codi gyda nhw, ond rwyf yn fwy cadarnhaol, wrth inni eistedd yn awr, fod cynnydd gwirioneddol wedi'i wneud yn ystod yr wythnos diwethaf a bod y mân broblemau yr wyf yn cydnabod eu bod yn dal i fodoli mewn rhannau eraill o'r wlad yn mynd i gael eu datrys. Ac ni allwn fod wedi bod yn gliriach ynglŷn â'm disgwyliadau i, ond dylai'r eglurder yn y neges honno, rwy'n credu, dawelu eich meddyliau chi eich hun ac Aelodau eraill ar draws y pleidiau sydd eisiau clywed y neges gyson honno, ac yna, wrth gwrs, ei gweithredu'n gyson hefyd.

Minister, I was very pleased to see the strong focus on mental health in your statement. You'll be aware that organisations like Hafal, Mind, and, indeed, the Government's own suicide prevention adviser, Professor Ann John, have raised concerns about the impact of the pandemic on mental health.

I'm pleased to see that there is to be a COVID mental health monitoring tool. Can I ask you for some more detail on that? How, for example, will action be taken if there are any deficits or particular problems identified? What assurances can you give that support for those who are self-harming, at risk of suicide or in mental health crisis will be prioritised? And as we come out of this pandemic, I am confident that the mental health implications are going to be significant, and on that basis, mental health really must have priority with physical health, as we plan to come through this pandemic. What assurances can you give that mental health will be just as much a central consideration as we look to make those exit plans?

Gweinidog, roeddwn i'n falch iawn o weld y pwyslais cryf ar iechyd meddwl yn eich datganiad. Byddwch chi'n ymwybodol bod sefydliadau fel Hafal, Mind ac, yn wir, cynghorydd atal hunanladdiad y Llywodraeth ei hun, yr Athro Ann John, wedi codi pryderon am effaith y pandemig ar iechyd meddwl.

Rwy'n falch o weld y bydd yna offeryn monitro iechyd meddwl COVID ar gael. A gaf i ofyn ichi am ragor o fanylion am hynny? Sut, er enghraifft, y bydd camau'n cael eu cymryd os oes unrhyw ddiffygion neu broblemau penodol yn cael eu nodi? Pa sicrwydd y gallwch chi ei roi y rhoddir blaenoriaeth i gymorth i'r rhai sy'n hunan-niweidio, sydd mewn perygl o gyflawni hunanladdiad neu sydd mewn argyfwng iechyd meddwl? Ac wrth i ni ddod allan o'r pandemig hwn, rwy'n hyderus y bydd y goblygiadau o ran iechyd meddwl yn sylweddol, ac ar y sail honno, mae'n rhaid i iechyd meddwl fod â blaenoriaeth gydag iechyd corfforol, wrth i ni gynllunio i ddod drwy'r pandemig hwn. Pa sicrwydd y gallwch chi ei roi y bydd iechyd meddwl yn gymaint o ystyriaeth ganolog wrth inni geisio gwneud y cynlluniau ymadael hynny?

Okay, perhaps on the specifics, I think it might be helpful—. Because I think you'll want more detail than a 30-second answer, so perhaps if the Member writes to me, I'll happily write back to the Member and share that correspondence with other Members as well on the details you have. I know that also means I'm asking for something because I wouldn't be surprised if you managed to add more questions into the letter, but to give something in writing, to give the level of clarity and detail that I know you want to look for, because to be fair, when we went through some of this at the children and young people committee in terms of in particular children and young people's mental health, I know it's a consistent area of interest for you and the whole committee. So, I'd like to be able to give you a more comprehensive answer that can be shared and put into the public domain.

And that must then lead to the continued work that we've done over a period of years in making sure that mental health is a priority. That's not just about the budget settlement, where we put more more money in, but the unfinished business of continuing to both deal with the stigma that still exists within the country about mental health, mental illness, but also then about the work we do in terms of parity of esteem in the way that the health service sees it as well and then recognising how mental health and physical health are sometimes linked as well. So, I'm really determined that, when we come out of this, when we know there'll be more physical harm to deal with, that isn't seen as the priority over and above mental health, but, actually, there's got to be genuine parity and understanding of how we address those very real concerns. As I say, all of us can probably point to areas in our own experience where we have concerns about people that we know, and that is very much the case in the constituents that we represent as well, so I'm more than happy to give that assurance and I look forward to receiving your letter.

Iawn, efallai ar y manylion, rwy'n credu y gallai fod yn ddefnyddiol—. Oherwydd, rwy'n credu y byddwch chi eisiau mwy o fanylion nag ateb 30 eiliad, felly efallai os gwnaiff yr Aelod ysgrifennu ataf, byddaf yn barod iawn i ysgrifennu yn ôl at yr Aelod a rhannu'r ohebiaeth honno ag aelodau eraill hefyd ar y manylion sydd gennych chi. Rwy'n gwybod bod hynny hefyd yn golygu fy mod yn gofyn am rywbeth oherwydd ni fyddwn yn synnu pe byddech chi'n llwyddo i ychwanegu mwy o gwestiynau i'r llythyr, ond i roi rhywbeth ysgrifenedig, i roi'r lefel o eglurder a manylder y gwn eich bod eisiau chwilio amdani, oherwydd i fod yn deg, pan aethom drwy rywfaint o hyn yn y pwyllgor plant a phobl ifanc o ran iechyd meddwl plant a phobl ifanc yn benodol, rwy'n gwybod ei fod yn faes diddordeb cyson i chi a'r pwyllgor cyfan. Felly, hoffwn allu rhoi ateb mwy cynhwysfawr i chi y gellir ei rannu a'i wneud yn gyhoeddus.

Ac yna mae'n rhaid i hynny arwain at y gwaith parhaus yr ydym ni wedi'i wneud dros gyfnod o flynyddoedd i sicrhau bod iechyd meddwl yn flaenoriaeth. Nid mater o setliad y gyllideb yn unig yw hynny, lle'r ydym yn rhoi mwy o arian i mewn, ond y busnes anorffenedig o barhau i ddelio â'r stigma sy'n dal i fodoli yn y wlad ynglŷn ag iechyd meddwl, salwch meddwl, ond hefyd wedyn y gwaith yr ydym ni'n ei wneud o ran parch cydradd yn y ffordd y mae'r gwasanaeth iechyd yn ei weld hefyd ac yna'n cydnabod sut y mae iechyd meddwl ac iechyd corfforol weithiau'n gysylltiedig. Felly, rwy'n benderfynol iawn, pan ddown ni allan o hyn, pan fyddwn ni'n gwybod y bydd mwy o niwed corfforol i ddelio ag ef, nad yw'n cael ei ystyried yn fwy o flaenoriaeth nag iechyd meddwl, ond, mewn gwirionedd, mae'n rhaid cael gwir gydraddoldeb a dealltwriaeth o sut yr ydym ni'n mynd i'r afael â'r pryderon gwirioneddol hynny. Fel yr wyf yn ei ddweud, mae'n debyg y gall pob un ohonom ni bwyntio at feysydd yn ein profiad ein hunain lle mae gennym bryderon am bobl yr ydym ni'n eu hadnabod, ac mae hynny'n wir iawn o ran yr etholwyr yr ydym ni'n eu cynrychioli hefyd, felly rwyf yn fwy na pharod i roi'r sicrwydd hwnnw ac edrychaf ymlaen at gael eich llythyr.

16:00

Can I just follow on from a question asked earlier by Angela Burns? Because this week I had reason to use an NHS facility myself, on a matter that was non-COVID related, and, following a remote consultation with my GP, I was able to promptly get an x-ray, a service that in my area has been transferred now from Prince Charles Hospital to Ysbyty Cwm Cynon for non-COVID related matters, and perhaps I should just take this opportunity to say a big thank you to all the staff there, who welcomed me, and they treated me with the dignity and respect that I think has become the trademark of our NHS workforce. However, I have to say that what surprised me was how empty the hospital was. And I'm sure there were people on the wards, but I expected to see a range of people in waiting areas who needed x-rays and other standard procedures, but that wasn't the case. And I know that you've stressed the need to resume a range of routine services, and you dealt with the issues around cancer in your answers to Angela Burns, but can I ask what practical progress is being made to get patients routinely back into the Welsh NHS so that we don't see this backlog of illness and disease? Because, despite the messages that the NHS is open, if my experience at YCC is anything to go by this week, it certainly doesn't seem to be getting through.

A gaf i ddilyn ymlaen o gwestiwn a ofynnwyd yn gynharach gan Angela Burns? Oherwydd yr wythnos hon, bu gennyf reswm i ddefnyddio cyfleuster GIG fy hun, ar fater nad oedd yn ymwneud â COVID, ac, ar ôl ymgynghori o bell â'm meddyg teulu, llwyddais i gael pelydr-x ar unwaith, gwasanaeth sydd wedi'i drosglwyddo yn fy ardal i erbyn hyn o Ysbyty'r Tywysog Siarl i Ysbyty Cwm Cynon ar gyfer materion nad ydynt yn gysylltiedig â COVID, ac efallai y dylwn i achub ar y cyfle hwn i ddweud diolch yn fawr wrth y staff yno, a'm croesawodd i, ac fe wnaethon nhw fy nhrin â'r urddas a'r parch, yn fy marn i, sydd wedi dod yn nodwedd o'n gweithlu yn y GIG. Fodd bynnag, mae'n rhaid imi ddweud mai'r hyn a'm synnodd i oedd pa mor wag oedd yr ysbyty. Ac rwy'n siŵr bod yna bobl ar y wardiau, ond roeddwn i'n disgwyl gweld amrywiaeth o bobl mewn mannau aros yr oedd angen pelydr-x arnyn nhw a thriniaethau safonol eraill, ond doedd hynny ddim yn wir. A gwn eich bod wedi pwysleisio'r angen i ailafael mewn amrywiaeth o wasanaethau arferol, ac rydych chi wedi delio â'r materion sy'n ymwneud â chanser yn eich atebion i Angela Burns, ond a gaf i ofyn pa gynnydd ymarferol sy'n cael ei wneud i gael cleifion yn ôl i'r GIG yng Nghymru fel mater o drefn fel nad ydym yn gweld yr ôl-groniad hwn o salwch ac afiechyd? Oherwydd, er gwaethaf y negeseuon yn dweud bod y GIG ar agor, os yw fy mhrofiad i yn YCC yn arwydd o'r hyn sy'n digwydd yr wythnos hon, yn sicr nid yw'n ymddangos eu bod yn cyrraedd y bobl.

Minister. Minister's microphone. Yes.

Gweinidog. Meicroffon y Gweinidog. Gallaf.

In a reversal of fortune. Excellent. [Laughter.] I share the concerns you have, because, when I look at the figures, and when I can see the fall-off in activity for areas that are still open for business, we're still not at normal activity, even in our front-door services like A&E. We're still seeing people opting not to come in, and that concern that is leading to those choices being made is something that—in response to both Lynne Neagle's questions about recognising the mental health harm that can be caused by lockdown, there is of course physical harm potentially where people are not coming in for those urgent care needs. I don't believe the number of people who would have had strokes in the last two months has fallen off, but, actually, our activity over the last two months isn't what we would normally expect at this time of year; the same with other harms as well.

So, I'm really keen—which is why I want to come back with a further statement that we'll set up when I've had those operational plans for the quarter from health boards—to be able set out what 'more normal' could and should should look like, to help rebuild the confidence of the public to make use of those services, because I think, without a regular restating of that, that we're not going to see a return to confidence on the sort of treatment that all of us would want for our constituents and, indeed, ourselves.

And if I may, just at the end, Llywydd, I hope that the Member didn't just have a good experience, but I hope the Member is now fit and well again following her recent appearance as a not-so-secret shopper in the national health service.

Mewn gwrthdroad ffawd. Gwych. [Chwerthin.] Rwy'n rhannu'r pryderon sydd gennych, oherwydd, pan fyddaf i'n edrych ar y ffigurau, a phan allaf weld y gostyngiad mewn gweithgarwch ar gyfer meysydd sy'n dal i fod ar agor ar gyfer busnes, nid ydym o hyd yn ôl i weithgarwch arferol, hyd yn oed yn ein gwasanaethau drws ffrynt fel yr adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys. Rydym ni'n dal i weld pobl yn dewis peidio â dod i mewn, ac mae'r pryder hwnnw sy'n peri bod y dewisiadau hynny'n cael eu gwneud yn rhywbeth sydd—mewn ymateb i gwestiynau Lynne Neagle ynglŷn â chydnabod y niwed i iechyd meddwl sy'n gallu cael ei achosi gan y cyfyngiadau symud, wrth gwrs bod niwed corfforol o bosibl pan nad yw pobl yn dod i mewn ar gyfer yr anghenion gofal brys hynny. Nid wyf yn credu bod nifer y bobl a fyddai wedi cael strôc yn ystod y ddeufis diwethaf wedi disgyn, ond, mewn gwirionedd, nid yw ein gweithgarwch dros y ddeufis diwethaf yr hyn y byddem ni'n ei ddisgwyl fel arfer ar yr adeg hon o'r flwyddyn; yr un fath o ran mathau eraill o niwed.

Felly, rwy'n awyddus iawn—a dyna pam yr wyf eisiau dod yn ôl â datganiad arall y byddwn ni'n ei drefnu pan fyddaf wedi cael y cynlluniau gweithredol hynny ar gyfer y chwarter gan y byrddau iechyd—i allu nodi'r hyn y gallai ac y dylai fod yn 'fwy arferol', er mwyn helpu i ailddatblygu ffydd y cyhoedd i ddefnyddio'r gwasanaethau hynny, oherwydd rwy'n credu, heb ailddatgan hynny'n rheolaidd, nad ydym yn mynd i ddychwelyd at ffydd yn y math o driniaeth y byddai pob un ohonom ni eisiau ei gael ar gyfer ein hetholwyr ac, yn wir, ni ein hunain.

Ac os caf i, ar y diwedd, Llywydd, rwy'n gobeithio nad dim ond profiad da y cafodd y Gweinidog, ond rwy'n gobeithio bod yr Aelod bellach yn ffit ac yn iach eto yn dilyn ei hymddangosiad diweddar fel siopwr nad oedd mor gudd â hynny yn y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol.

Thank you, Minister, and thank you, Members. We'll be taking a short, 10-minute break now, and we will pause the broadcast, therefore.

Diolch, Gweinidog, a diolch ichi, Aelodau. Fe fyddwn ni'n cymryd seibiant byr, 10 munud yn awr, ac felly fe fyddwn ni'n oedi'r darllediad.

Ataliwyd y Cyfarfod Llawn am 16:04.

Plenary was suspended at 16:04.

16:15

Ailymgynullodd y Senedd am 16:16 gyda'r Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) yn y Gadair.

The Senedd reconvened at 16:16, with the Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) in the Chair.

5. Datganiad gan y Gweinidog Cyllid a'r Trefnydd: Y goblygiadau cyllidol i Gymru yn sgil effaith COVID-19 a'r ymateb iddo
5. Statement by the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd: Fiscal implications for Wales of the impact of, and response to, COVID-19

Okay. We resume, then, with item 5 on our agenda this afternoon, which is a statement by the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd—the fiscal implications for Wales of the impact of and the response to COVID-19. And I call on the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd, Rebecca Evans.

Iawn. Fe wnawn ni ailafael ynddi felly ag eitem 5 ar ein hagenda y prynhawn yma, sy'n ddatganiad gan y Gweinidog Cyllid a'r Trefnydd—y goblygiadau cyllidol i Gymru yn sgil effaith COVID-19 a'r ymateb iddo. A galwaf ar y Gweinidog Cyllid a'r Trefnydd, Rebecca Evans.

Thank you. It was on 3 March that the 2020-21 final budget was passed by the Senedd, and so much has happened in the 10 weeks since then. We had already faced an unprecedented set of circumstances in setting our 2020-21 budget plans against the backdrop of ongoing UK-driven austerity, continued Brexit uncertainty and the devastating impacts of the recent flooding. The delayed UK Government budget of 11 March also meant further changes to our settlement. Members will recall that, as a result, I made a commitment to make a statement to provide an update on the forecasts and any other changes to funding for Wales. I am providing that detail today, but obviously we now find ourselves in a dramatically different situation.

We are now responding to the evolving and devastating impacts of the coronavirus pandemic, which is requiring unprecedented levels of Government spending at a pace and scale without rival in the post-war era. I will, therefore, focus today on the extraordinary efforts that the Welsh Government is making to use our budget in the best possible way to respond to the coronavirus crisis, and to show how the decisions we have made reflect our values as a Government.

The outlook for public finances is stark. According to the Office for Budget Responsibility, the UK's fiscal deficit could be £273 billion this year. That is five times higher than expected just two months ago at the time of the UK budget, and significantly higher than at the peak of borrowing during the financial crisis a decade or so ago. This increase will be partly due to higher public expenditure to deal with the current crisis, but also to much lower tax receipts, arising from the reduction in economic activity. Devolved tax revenues will be affected by the lockdown in the same way as other taxes; we can expect a substantial hit. However, the fiscal framework protects our budget from UK-wide economic shocks. As a result, the net impact of reduced economic activity and tax receipts on our budget this year should be small, but we will, of course, be monitoring this situation carefully. 

In terms of the wider economic context, both the OBR and the Bank of England have acknowledged that it is virtually certain that the epidemic, and the necessary measures put in place to contain it, will result in an immediate reduction of economic activity to a degree that's unprecedented in living memory.

Diolch. Ar 3 Mawrth pasiwyd cyllideb derfynol 2020-21 gan y Senedd, ac mae cymaint wedi digwydd yn y 10 wythnos ers hynny. Roeddem ni eisoes wedi wynebu amgylchiadau na welsom ni erioed mo'u tebyg wrth bennu ein cynlluniau ar gyfer cyllideb 2020-21 a hynny ar adeg o gyni parhaus yn y DU, ansicrwydd parhaus Brexit ac effeithiau dinistriol y llifogydd diweddar. Roedd cyllideb hwyr Llywodraeth y DU ar 11 Mawrth hefyd yn golygu newidiadau pellach i'n setliad. Bydd yr Aelodau'n cofio fy mod, o ganlyniad, wedi ymrwymo i wneud datganiad i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y rhagolygon ac unrhyw newidiadau eraill o ran cyllid ar gyfer Cymru. Rwy'n darparu'r manylion hynny heddiw, ond yn amlwg rydym ni nawr mewn sefyllfa wahanol iawn.

Rydym ni nawr yn ymateb i effeithiau datblygol a dinistriol pandemig y coronafeirws, sy'n gofyn am wario digyffelyb gan y Llywodraeth yn ddi-oed ac ar raddfa fawr a heb ei debyg ers y rhyfel. Felly, byddaf yn canolbwyntio heddiw ar yr ymdrechion eithriadol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu gwneud i ddefnyddio ein cyllideb yn y ffordd orau bosibl i ymateb i argyfwng y coronafeirws, ac i ddangos sut y mae'r penderfyniadau yr ydym wedi'u gwneud yn adlewyrchu ein gwerthoedd fel Llywodraeth.

Mae'r rhagolygon ar gyfer cyllid cyhoeddus yn llwm. Yn ôl y Swyddfa Cyfrifoldeb Cyllidebol, gallai diffyg ariannol y DU fod yn £273 biliwn eleni. Mae hynny bum gwaith yn uwch na'r disgwyl ddeufis yn unig yn ôl adeg cyllideb y DU, ac yn sylweddol uwch nag yr oedd ar anterth y benthyca yn ystod yr argyfwng ariannol ddegawd yn ôl. Bydd y cynnydd hwn yn deillio'n rhannol o wariant cyhoeddus uwch i ymdrin â'r argyfwng presennol, ond hefyd oherwydd llawer llai o dderbyniadau treth, yn sgil y gostyngiad mewn gweithgarwch economaidd. Bydd y cyfyngiadau symud yn effeithio ar refeniw treth datganoledig yn yr un modd â threthi eraill; gallwn ddisgwyl ergyd sylweddol. Fodd bynnag, mae'r fframwaith cyllidol yn diogelu ein cyllideb rhag ergydion economaidd ledled y DU. O ganlyniad, dylai effaith net llai o weithgarwch economaidd a derbyniadau treth ar ein cyllideb eleni fod yn fach, ond byddwn, wrth gwrs, yn cadw golwg fanwl ar y sefyllfa hon.

O ran y cyd-destun economaidd ehangach, mae'r Swyddfa Cyfrifoldeb Cyllidebol a Banc Lloegr wedi cydnabod ei bod hi bron yn sicr y bydd yr epidemig, a'r mesurau angenrheidiol a roddir ar waith i geisio atal ei ledaeniad, yn arwain at leihau gweithgarwch economaidd yn syth i raddau digyffelyb o fewn cof.

Unemployment in Wales will certainly rise sharply, despite the measures that have been put in place by both the UK and Welsh Governments. The most disadvantaged—those on low pay, in insecure employment, and people with poor health—will be most at risk. Young people entering the labour market will face a particularly tough time, and the evidence from previous recessions shows that this could result in lasting negative impacts on their incomes, health, well-being and even life expectancy.

To fund the action we've taken, we have received an increase in our budget in the form of consequentials from spending by the UK Government on measures in England. To date, we're expecting over £2.1 billion, which is well over 10 per cent of our planned budget.

In order to protect the NHS and save lives, we have needed to take difficult decisions to fund activities that prepare us for the worst in the hope that they're not fully required. We have also taken decisive action to free up, through reprioritising and repurposing, more than £0.5 billion from our own budget and European funding to support the Welsh economy and ensure our public services are equipped to deal with the coronavirus pandemic.

From this coronavirus response reserve, we have already provided over £300 million to the NHS to support priorities including the supply of PPE, field hospital provision, investment in testing and tracing, and NHS recruitment.

We're also taking decisive action to protect the most disadvantaged people in society. We've provided an extra £11 million of immediate support for those facing hardship as a result of the pandemic, £15 million to establish weekly food parcels for those who are shielded, and £24 million for a third sector COVID-19 response fund, targeted at the pressures that charities and the third sector are facing. We have also announced additional support of up to £6.3 million for hospices in Wales.

Alongside these actions, we're also giving an extra £500 to everyone working on the front line in social care, recognising that the market rate for the job in no way reflects the huge importance of the work that they do.

We have acted to protect the vital public services provided by our local authorities through a £110 million local authority hardship fund, and this includes £40 million to get food to families entitled to free school meals while schools are closed, £40 million to support the extra costs adult social care services are now facing, in addition to the £500 payment I have just referred to, and £10 million to help councils take immediate action to protect the homeless and those who are sleeping rough.

We've also deployed an unprecedented package of measures to support the economy and protect jobs. We're investing £1.7 billion in addition to vital measures launched by the UK Government, such as the job retention scheme. Our support includes more than £1 billion that local government is distributing on our behalf in business rate relief and associated grants to businesses in the hospitality, leisure and tourism sectors.

We've also established a £500 million economic resilience fund to offer vital support for businesses, charities and social enterprises, over and above that which is available in England. Of this £500 million, the £100 million Development Bank of Wales loan fund has already approved over 1,300 loans, totalling over £100 million, safeguarding 15,000 jobs. 

The remaining £400 million grant fund is offering support particularly to those small and medium-sized firms that are crucial to the Welsh economy, alongside our charities and social enterprises. The application process for this fund saw an incredible 9,500 claims submitted in little more than a week. As of today, £70 million of support from this fund has already been offered to more than 5,000 businesses, charities and social enterprises and is starting to land in bank accounts across Wales. As a result of the actions we've taken, Welsh businesses, charities and social enterprises can access the most generous business support offer in the whole of the UK.

The Minister for economy and transport and I urged the UK Government to extend the job retention scheme, and I welcome the announcement made by the Chancellor yesterday. Only the UK Government has the fiscal capacity to operate the major schemes that we need to protect people and businesses from the worst excesses of the crisis.

As is the case with other devolved nations, this means that the major funding we deploy as a Welsh Government would be severely undermined if the job retention scheme was weakened or terminated at the wrong time. The UK Treasury did not consult devolved nations on the latest decision, but the Chancellor can improve on this and work now to engage with us before major decisions are taken in the coming weeks.

I will be publishing a supplementary budget on 27 May, providing greater clarity on the changes to our budget since March, which will focus on providing more detail on the actions we have taken to respond to the coronavirus.

As our focus shifts from the immediate impacts of this crisis towards recovery, there are many remaining uncertainties ahead. We may need to find more funding to deal with the immediate crisis and fund restart and recovery efforts, and we also face the risk of further changes to our budget by the UK Government later in the year.

I will also continue to press the UK Government to provide greater fiscal flexibility to help us manage in these unprecedented times. In particular, I am seeking greater access to the Wales reserve this year, relaxation of our borrowing limits, and greater scope to switch between revenue and capital budgets. The independent Institute for Fiscal Studies has also recently argued for such changes to be made to help Wales respond to the crisis.

In conclusion, every day we are facing tough choices about using our stretched and limited resources. While these circumstances will continue to require further difficult decisions, we will continue to make the right choices, based on the best evidence, and on our values. Thank you very much.

Bydd diweithdra yng Nghymru yn sicr yn codi'n gyflym, er gwaethaf y mesurau sydd wedi'u rhoi ar waith gan Lywodraeth y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru. Y rhai mwyaf difreintiedig—y rhai sydd ar gyflog isel, mewn cyflogaeth ansicr, a phobl ag iechyd gwael—fydd y rhai mwyaf tebygol o wynebu'r risg. Bydd pobl ifanc sy'n ymuno â'r farchnad lafur yn wynebu cyfnod arbennig o anodd, ac mae'r dystiolaeth o gyfnodau blaenorol o ddirwasgiad yn dangos y gallai hyn arwain at effeithiau negyddol parhaol ar eu hincwm, iechyd, lles a hyd yn oed disgwyliad oes.

Er mwyn ariannu'r camau gweithredu a gymerwyd gennym, rydym ni wedi cael cynnydd yn ein cyllideb ar ffurf symiau canlyniadol o wariant gan Lywodraeth y DU ar fesurau yn Lloegr. Hyd yn hyn, rydym yn disgwyl dros £2.1 biliwn sydd ymhell dros 10 y cant o'n cyllideb arfaethedig.

Er mwyn amddiffyn y GIG ac achub bywydau, bu angen i ni wneud penderfyniadau anodd i ariannu gweithgareddau sy'n ein paratoi am y gwaethaf yn y gobaith na fydd eu hangen yn llawn. Rydym ni hefyd wedi cymryd camau pendant i ryddhau, drwy ailflaenoriaethu ac addasu at ddibenion gwahanol, mwy na £0.5 biliwn o'n cyllideb ein hunain a chyllid Ewropeaidd i gefnogi economi Cymru a sicrhau bod ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus wedi'u harfogi i ymdopi â'r pandemig coronafeirws.

O'r gronfa wrth gefn hon i ymateb i'r coronafeirws, rydym ni eisoes wedi rhoi dros £300 miliwn i'r GIG i gefnogi blaenoriaethau gan gynnwys cyflenwi cyfarpar diogelu personol, darpariaeth ysbyty maes, buddsoddi mewn profi ac olrhain, a recriwtio i'r GIG.

Rydym ni hefyd yn cymryd camau pendant i amddiffyn y bobl fwyaf difreintiedig mewn cymdeithas. Rydym ni wedi darparu £11 miliwn ychwanegol o gymorth ar unwaith ar gyfer y rhai sy'n wynebu caledi o ganlyniad i'r pandemig, £15 miliwn i sefydlu parseli bwyd wythnosol i'r rhai a warchodir, a £24 miliwn ar gyfer cronfa ymateb Covid-19 y trydydd sector, yn targedu'r pwysau y mae elusennau a'r trydydd sector yn eu hwynebu. Rydym ni hefyd wedi cyhoeddi cymorth ychwanegol o hyd at £6.3 miliwn ar gyfer hosbisau yng Nghymru.

Ynghyd â'r camau gweithredu hyn, rydym ni hefyd yn rhoi £500 yn ychwanegol i bawb sy'n gweithio ar y rheng flaen mewn gofal cymdeithasol, gan gydnabod nad yw cyfradd y farchnad ar gyfer y swydd yn adlewyrchu pwysigrwydd enfawr y gwaith a wnânt mewn unrhyw ffordd.

Rydym ni wedi gweithredu i ddiogelu'r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus hanfodol a ddarperir gan ein hawdurdodau lleol drwy gronfa galedi awdurdodau lleol o £110 miliwn, ac mae hyn yn cynnwys £40 miliwn i gael bwyd i deuluoedd sydd â'r hawl i gael prydau ysgol am ddim tra bo ysgolion wedi cau, £40 miliwn i gefnogi'r costau ychwanegol y mae gwasanaethau gofal cymdeithasol i oedolion yn eu hwynebu nawr, yn ychwanegol at y taliad o £500 yr wyf newydd gyfeirio ato, a £10 miliwn i helpu cynghorau i weithredu ar unwaith i amddiffyn y digartref a'r rhai sy'n cysgu allan.

Rydym ni hefyd wedi defnyddio pecyn digyffelyb o fesurau i gefnogi'r economi ac amddiffyn swyddi. Rydym ni'n buddsoddi £1.7 biliwn yn ogystal â mesurau hanfodol a lansiwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU, fel y cynllun cadw swyddi. Mae ein cefnogaeth yn cynnwys mwy na £1 biliwn y mae Llywodraeth Leol yn ei ddosbarthu ar ein rhan drwy ryddhad ardrethi busnes a grantiau cysylltiedig i fusnesau yn y sectorau lletygarwch, hamdden a thwristiaeth.

Rydym ni hefyd wedi sefydlu cronfa cadernid economaidd o £500 miliwn i gynnig cymorth hanfodol i fusnesau, elusennau a mentrau cymdeithasol, yn ychwanegol at yr hyn sydd ar gael yn Lloegr. O'r £500 miliwn, mae cronfa benthyciadau Banc Datblygu Cymru o £100 miliwn eisoes wedi cymeradwyo dros 1,300 o fenthyciadau, gyda chyfanswm o dros £100 miliwn, sy'n diogelu 15,000 o swyddi.

Mae'r gronfa grant £400 miliwn sy'n weddill yn cynnig cymorth yn arbennig i'r cwmnïau bach a chanolig eu maint sy'n hanfodol i economi Cymru, ochr yn ochr â'n helusennau a'n mentrau cymdeithasol. Gwelodd y broses ymgeisio ar gyfer y gronfa hon y swm anhygoel o 9,500 o hawliadau yn cael eu cyflwyno mewn ychydig mwy nag wythnos. Heddiw mae £70 miliwn o gymorth o'r gronfa hon eisoes wedi'i gynnig i fwy na 5,000 o fusnesau, elusennau a mentrau cymdeithasol ac mae'n dechrau mynd i gyfrifon banc ledled Cymru. O ganlyniad i'r camau a gymerwyd gennym ni, gall busnesau Cymru, elusennau a mentrau cymdeithasol fanteisio ar y cymorth busnes mwyaf hael yn y DU gyfan.

Pwysodd Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth a minnau ar Lywodraeth y DU i ymestyn y cynllun cadw swyddi, ac rwy'n croesawu'r cyhoeddiad a wnaethpwyd gan y Canghellor ddoe. Dim ond Llywodraeth y DU sydd â'r gallu ariannol i weithredu'r cynlluniau mawr y mae eu hangen arnom ni i amddiffyn pobl a busnesau rhag eithafion gwaethaf yr argyfwng.

Fel sy'n wir am wledydd datganoledig eraill, mae hyn yn golygu y byddai'r cyllid mawr a gaiff ei ddefnyddio gennym ni fel Llywodraeth Cymru yn cael ei danseilio'n ddifrifol pe bai'r cynllun cadw swyddi'n cael ei wanhau neu ei derfynu ar yr adeg anghywir. Ni wnaeth Trysorlys y DU ymgynghori â'r gwledydd datganoledig ar y penderfyniad diweddaraf, ond gall y Canghellor wella ar hyn a gweithio nawr i ymgysylltu â ni cyn i benderfyniadau mawr gael eu gwneud yn yr wythnosau nesaf.

Byddaf yn cyhoeddi cyllideb atodol ar 27 Mai, yn rhoi mwy o eglurder ynglŷn â'r newidiadau i'n cyllideb ers mis Mawrth, a fydd yn canolbwyntio ar roi mwy o fanylion am y camau yr ydym ni wedi'u cymryd i ymateb i'r coronafeirws.

Wrth i'n sylw ni symud oddi wrth effeithiau uniongyrchol yr argyfwng hwn i adferiad, mae llawer o ansicrwydd o'n blaenau. Efallai y bydd angen inni ddod o hyd i fwy o gyllid i ymdrin â'r argyfwng uniongyrchol a chyllido ymdrechion i ailgychwyn ac adfer, ac rydym ni hefyd yn wynebu'r risg o newidiadau pellach i'n cyllideb gan Lywodraeth y DU yn ddiweddarach yn y flwyddyn.

Byddaf hefyd yn parhau i bwyso ar Lywodraeth y DU i ddarparu mwy o hyblygrwydd ariannol i'n helpu i ymdopi yn y cyfnod hwn na welwyd ei debyg o'r blaen. Yn benodol, rwy'n ceisio cael mwy o fynediad i gronfa wrth gefn Cymru eleni, llacio ein terfynau benthyca, a mwy o gyfle i newid rhwng cyllidebau refeniw a chyfalaf. Mae'r Sefydliad Astudiaethau Cyllid annibynnol hefyd wedi dadlau'n ddiweddar dros wneud newidiadau o'r fath i helpu Cymru i ymateb i'r argyfwng.

I gloi, bob dydd, rydym yn wynebu dewisiadau anodd ynglŷn â defnyddio ein hadnoddau prin a chyfyngedig. Er y bydd yr amgylchiadau hyn yn parhau i ofyn am benderfyniadau anodd ychwanegol, byddwn yn parhau i wneud y dewisiadau cywir, yn seiliedig ar y dystiolaeth orau, ac ar ein gwerthoedd. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

16:25

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you, Minister, for your statement this afternoon. These are, clearly, dark days for the economy as the lockdown inevitably sees the reduction in economic growth and GDP that you've outlined. So, the role of the Welsh Government in supporting business and preparing for the future at this time is, indeed, vital.

With this in mind, you'll be aware that there's been great concern, over the last couple of days, at the announcement by Debenhams that it'll be forced to close all five of its stores in Wales, including flagships in Newport and Cardiff, if the Welsh Government doesn't reverse its decision to cap business rate relief. I think this is a clear warning sign. If these stores don't reopen after the pandemic, there will be significant knock-on effects for the economy. Many of my constituents rely on the Newport store—there are jobs provided there, customers are going there. Now, I understand that you are meeting with Debenhams, or you might already have had discussions with them and with their bosses. I wonder if you can update us on any discussions, and will you listen to them and review your decision to exclude shops with a rateable value over £500,000 from being able to access support? I know that you've said in the past that that policy allows you to support other businesses, but I think it's very important that larger businesses are also supported.

Can I secondly ask you—you've mentioned the supplementary budget you're planning on bringing forward—how are you reprioritising Welsh Government spending at this time? Can you say a little bit more about your supplementary budget? My party have called for a full emergency budget where you will give greater transparency, a greater opportunity for scrutiny of Welsh Government's spending decisions at this time.

Can I finally ask you about the implications for tax policy? You've previously said that you don't anticipate there being changes to tax rates before the next Senedd elections. Is that still the Government policy, particularly if there are changes at UK tax level later in this year? I think it's very important that the public and our constituents do have clarity on budget decisions at this time.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, a diolch i chi, Gweinidog, am eich datganiad y prynhawn yma. Mae'n amlwg bod y rhain yn ddyddiau tywyll i'r economi gan ei bod yn anochel bod y cyfyngiadau symud yn achosi'r gostyngiad mewn twf economaidd a chynnyrch domestig gros a amlinellwyd gennych chi. Felly, mae'r rhan y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei chwarae o ran cefnogi busnesau a pharatoi ar gyfer y dyfodol ar yr adeg hon, yn wir, yn hanfodol.

O gofio hyn, byddwch yn ymwybodol y bu pryder mawr, yn ystod yr ychydig ddyddiau diwethaf, ynghylch y cyhoeddiad gan Debenhams y bydd yn rhaid cau pob un o'i bump siop yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys y siopau blaenllaw yng Nghasnewydd a Chaerdydd, os na fydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwrthdroi ei phenderfyniad i roi uchafswm ar ryddhad ardrethi busnes. Rwy'n credu bod hwn yn arwydd clir o rybudd. Os na fydd y siopau hyn yn ailagor ar ôl y pandemig, bydd effeithiau sylweddol i'r economi o ganlyniad. Mae llawer o'm hetholwyr yn dibynnu ar siop Casnewydd—darperir swyddi yno, mae cwsmeriaid yn mynd yno. Nawr, rwy'n deall eich bod yn cwrdd â Debenhams, neu efallai eich bod eisoes wedi cael trafodaethau gyda nhw a'u penaethiaid. Tybed a allwch chi roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni am unrhyw drafodaethau, ac a wnewch chi wrando arnyn nhw ac adolygu eich penderfyniad i eithrio siopau sydd â gwerth ardrethol dros £500,000 rhag gallu cael gafael ar gymorth? Gwn eich bod wedi dweud yn y gorffennol bod y polisi hwnnw yn caniatáu i chi gefnogi busnesau eraill, ond rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig iawn bod busnesau mwy yn cael eu cefnogi hefyd.

Yn ail, a gaf i ofyn i chi—rydych chi wedi sôn am y gyllideb atodol rydych chi'n bwriadu ei chyflwyno—sut ydych chi'n ail-flaenoriaethu gwariant Llywodraeth Cymru ar hyn o bryd? A allwch chi ddweud ychydig mwy am eich cyllideb atodol? Mae fy mhlaid wedi galw am gyllideb frys lawn fwy tryloyw, lle bydd mwy o gyfle i graffu ar benderfyniadau gwariant Llywodraeth Cymru ar yr adeg hon.

Ac yn olaf a gaf i ofyn i chi am y goblygiadau o ran polisi treth? Rydych chi wedi dweud o'r blaen nad ydych chi'n rhagweld newidiadau i gyfraddau treth cyn etholiadau nesaf y Senedd. Ai dyna yw polisi'r Llywodraeth o hyd, yn enwedig os oes newidiadau ar lefel treth y DU yn ddiweddarach eleni? Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn bod y cyhoedd a'n hetholwyr yn cael eglurder ar benderfyniadau cyllidebol ar yr adeg hon.

I'm grateful for that set of questions, and Nick Ramsay is right that I did have the opportunity to meet with the chairman of Debenhams yesterday. But, just to provide the background to the thinking on the Welsh Government's decision to limit rate relief to those businesses with a rateable value of under £0.5 million, we did so because we're very keen to ensure that that funding, which freed up £100 million of funding, could be redeployed to support small and medium-sized enterprises across Wales, which are the backbone of our economy. So, we're able to support, for example, 2,000 businesses with grants of up to £50,000 as a result of that decision. But, as I said to the chairman of Debenhams yesterday, Welsh Government really wants Debenhams to succeed. It is really important in terms of supporting some of our high streets in particular, as one of those anchor stores. So, I have said I will reflect on the discussions we had yesterday. I don't think it would be fair on Debenhams if I were to go into too much of the detail of those discussions, but I've certainly undertaken to write them in the next couple of days, following those discussions.

I will also say on the matter of the supplementary budget, it's my intention, as I say, to publish that at the end of this month, but I'll certainly be providing a greater level of detail. As Nick Ramsay knows, supplementary budgets are normally quite technical exercises, just detailing funding as it moves between or within main expenditure groups and the funding that comes from UK Government and so on, but the level of change on this occasion has been extraordinary. So, I set out at the start that we've had an allocation so far, or expect an allocation of over £2 billion, which is around 10 per cent of our budget. So, I will be providing a greater level of detail with the supplementary budget than we would normally do, describing in some more detail the allocations that we've made, but also those areas where we've had to free up that funding where activity will no longer take place, because I think it's important to give that kind of clarity as well.

We did that work by discussing with colleagues across Government on a MEG-by-MEG basis, looking through every line of their budget to explore what could be freed up this first time round. But I'll say to you what I've said to colleagues, and that is that it's probably not the first time that we're going to have to do that exercise. I think we'll have to repeat it again to explore what further funding could be freed up for the COVID response and for recovery.

And on the matter of Welsh rates of income tax, it is still our intention not to raise Welsh rates of income tax over the course of this Assembly, and, of course, we voted on our Welsh rates of income tax for this financial year just a few weeks ago, and it's not the intention to change that. I think people are having a tough enough time as it is at the moment, so I don't think that we would be looking to ask them to contribute more at what is a really, really difficult time.

Rwy'n ddiolchgar am y gyfres yna o gwestiynau, ac mae Nick Ramsay yn iawn, fe gefais gyfle i gyfarfod â chadeirydd Debenhams ddoe. Ond, i roi cefndir yr hyn oedd y tu ôl i benderfyniad Llywodraeth Cymru i gyfyngu rhyddhad ardrethi i'r busnesau hynny sydd â gwerth ardrethol o dan £500,000, gwnaethom hynny oherwydd ein bod ni'n awyddus iawn i sicrhau y gellid defnyddio'r cyllid hwnnw, a oedd yn rhyddhau £100 miliwn o gyllid, i gefnogi busnesau bach a chanolig ledled Cymru, sef asgwrn cefn ein heconomi. Felly, rydym ni'n gallu cefnogi, er enghraifft, 2,000 o fusnesau gyda grantiau o hyd at £50,000 o ganlyniad i'r penderfyniad hwnnw. Ond, fel y dywedais wrth gadeirydd Debenhams ddoe, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wir eisiau i Debenhams lwyddo. Mae'n wirioneddol bwysig o ran cefnogi rhai o'n strydoedd mawr yn arbennig, fel un o'r siopau angor hynny. Felly, rwyf wedi dweud y byddaf yn myfyrio ar y trafodaethau a gawsom ni ddoe. Dydw i ddim yn credu y byddai'n deg ar Debenhams pe bawn i'n rhoi gormod o fanylion y trafodaethau hynny, ond rwy'n sicr wedi addo ysgrifennu atyn nhw yn ystod yr ychydig ddyddiau nesaf, yn dilyn y trafodaethau hynny.

Dywedaf hefyd ar fater y gyllideb atodol, mai fy mwriad yw cyhoeddi hynny ddiwedd y mis hwn, ond byddaf yn sicr yn darparu mwy o fanylder. Fel y gŵyr Nick Ramsay, mae cyllidebau atodol fel arfer yn ymarferion eithaf technegol, sef manylu ar gyllid wrth iddo symud rhwng neu o fewn y prif grwpiau gwariant a'r cyllid a ddaw gan Lywodraeth y DU ac ati, ond mae maint y newid y tro hwn wedi bod yn rhyfeddol. Felly, dywedais ar y dechrau ein bod wedi cael dyraniad hyd yn hyn, neu'n disgwyl dyraniad o dros £2 biliwn sef tua 10 y cant o'n cyllideb. Felly, byddaf yn darparu mwy o fanylder gyda'r gyllideb atodol nag y byddem yn ei wneud fel arfer, gan ddisgrifio'n fanylach y dyraniadau yr ydym wedi'u gwneud, ond hefyd y meysydd hynny lle yr ydym wedi gorfod rhyddhau'r cyllid hwnnw lle na fydd gweithgarwch yn digwydd mwyach, oherwydd credaf ei bod hi'n bwysig rhoi'r math hwnnw o eglurder hefyd.

Gwnaethom y gwaith hwnnw drwy drafod gyda chydweithwyr ym mhob rhan o'r Llywodraeth fesul prif grŵp gwariant, gan edrych drwy bob llinell o'u cyllideb i weld beth y gellid ei ryddhau i ddechrau. Ond fe ddywedaf wrthych chi yr hyn yr wyf wedi'i ddweud wrth fy nghydweithwyr, sef mae'n debyg nad dyma'r tro cyntaf y bydd yn rhaid i ni wneud yr ymarfer hwnnw. Rwy'n credu y bydd yn rhaid i ni ei ailadrodd eto er mwyn archwilio pa gyllid ychwanegol y gellid ei ryddhau wrth ymateb i COVID ac ar gyfer adferiad.

Ac ar fater cyfraddau treth incwm Cymru, ein bwriad o hyd yw peidio â chodi cyfraddau treth incwm Cymru yn ystod y Cynulliad hwn, ac, wrth gwrs, fe wnaethom ni bleidleisio ar ein cyfraddau treth incwm yng Nghymru am y flwyddyn ariannol hon ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, ac nid yw'n fwriad newid hynny. Rwy'n credu bod pobl yn cael amser caled fel y mae hi ar hyn o bryd, felly dydw i ddim yn credu y byddem yn ystyried gofyn iddyn nhw gyfrannu mwy mewn cyfnod mor anodd.

16:30

Thank you, Minister, and, as you say, I am used to the technicality of the supplementary budgets, but this one will be more important than ever, for obvious reasons, so we look forward to that.

In terms of the business rates answer that you've just given as well, as I say, I appreciate there are certain reasons for the policy, but I think there are really strong arguments for giving that support to larger companies like Debenhams to make sure that those big anchor stores are still there at the end of this to provide the knock-on effects for the rest of the economy—the positive knock-on effects that we're used to receiving from them.

In terms of borrowing and taxation, you did touch on borrowing in your statement, and I think you said that the anticipated current budget deficit, UK wide, is looking at around £263 billion. That's around £100 billion more, I think, than the budget deficit was at the peak of the financial crisis back over 10 years ago. So, given that that involves a significant amount of borrowing already, how realistic is it to put the eggs in the basket of looking for huge flexibility in Welsh Government borrowing powers, given that money is clearly going to be tight over the next year?

Secondly, in terms of taxation, I've discussed income taxation. Of course, the other major taxes under the remit of the Welsh Government—landfill disposals tax, stamp duty—in terms of landfill disposals tax, I imagine that revenues there have fallen off significantly. It doesn't include fly-tipping, which has been going on at quite a rate in some areas, as we know. In terms of stamp duty, there's been a total slowdown in the housing market. I know that, in the UK, there are attempts to try and kick-start the housing market, so I think it would be good if we could look at ways to support that and estate agents here. Would it be a good idea for us to have a dedicated statement, maybe, on the devolved taxes in Wales and the amount of revenue that we're expected to lose, so that we can plan for the future?

Very finally, on the future generations report—a very hefty document that I've just been leafing through it here—there's a lot of stuff in there that I'm sure you're going to be taking account of as we come out of the pandemic. Procurement is mentioned in there and the possibility of allowing greater stability, maybe five-term contracts for bodies when the Welsh Government looks to procure in future. Are you looking at all of these aspects to make sure that businesses in the future will have as much stability as they possibly can to put money back into the economy and to get things moving?

Diolch, Gweinidog, ac fel y dywedwch chi, rwyf wedi arfer â materion technegol y cyllidebau atodol, ond bydd hwn yn bwysicach nag erioed, am resymau amlwg, felly edrychwn ymlaen at hynny.

O ran yr ateb ynghylch y trethi busnes yr ydych chi newydd ei roi hefyd, fel y dywedaf, rwy'n sylweddoli bod rhesymau penodol dros y polisi, ond credaf fod dadleuon cryf iawn dros roi'r gefnogaeth honno i gwmnïau mwy fel Debenhams i wneud yn siŵr bod y siopau angori mawr hynny'n dal yno ar ddiwedd hyn i ddarparu'r effeithiau canlyniadol ar gyfer gweddill yr economi—yr effeithiau canlyniadol cadarnhaol yr ydym ni wedi arfer eu cael ganddyn nhw.

O ran benthyca a threthu, fe wnaethoch chi grybwyll benthyca yn eich datganiad, a chredaf ichi ddweud bod y diffyg presennol a ragwelir yn y gyllideb, ledled y DU, oddeutu £263 biliwn. Mae hynny tua £100 biliwn yn fwy, rwy'n credu, na'r diffyg yn y gyllideb adeg anterth yr argyfwng ariannol dros 10 mlynedd yn ôl. Felly, gan fod hynny eisoes yn golygu swm sylweddol o fenthyca, pa mor realistig yw mentro popeth ar geisio hyblygrwydd enfawr o ran pwerau benthyca Llywodraeth Cymru, o gofio y bydd arian yn amlwg yn brin dros y flwyddyn nesaf?

Yn ail, o ran trethiant, rwyf wedi trafod trethiant incwm. Wrth gwrs, y trethi mawr eraill o dan gylch gwaith Llywodraeth Cymru—treth gwarediadau tirlenwi, treth stamp—o ran treth gwarediadau tirlenwi, dychmygaf fod y refeniw yna wedi gostwng yn sylweddol. Nid yw'n cynnwys tipio anghyfreithlon, sy'n digwydd ar raddfa eithaf eang mewn rhai ardaloedd, fel y gwyddom ni. O ran y dreth stamp, mae'r farchnad dai wedi arafu'n llwyr. Gwn fod ymdrechion yn y DU i geisio rhoi hwb i'r farchnad dai, felly credaf y byddai'n dda pe gallem ni edrych ar ffyrdd i gefnogi hynny a'r gwerthwyr tai yma. A fyddai'n syniad da inni gael datganiad pwrpasol, efallai, ar y trethi datganoledig yng Nghymru a faint o refeniw y disgwylir inni ei golli, fel y gallwn ni gynllunio ar gyfer y dyfodol?

Yn olaf un, ar adroddiad cenedlaethau'r dyfodol—dogfen swmpus iawn yr wyf newydd bori drwyddi yma—mae llawer o bethau yn y fan yna yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwch yn eu hystyried wrth inni ddod allan o'r pandemig. Sonnir am gaffael yn y fan honno a'r posibilrwydd o ganiatáu mwy o sefydlogrwydd, efallai contractau pum tymor ar gyfer cyrff pan fydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ystyried caffael yn y dyfodol. A ydych yn edrych ar bob un o'r agweddau hyn i sicrhau y bydd gan fusnesau yn y dyfodol gymaint o sefydlogrwydd â phosib i roi arian yn ôl i mewn i'r economi a chael pethau i symud eto?

Thank you for those questions. The first related to borrowing, and of course Welsh Government has very, very limited borrowing powers in any case, so the kind of flexibilities that we're asking UK Government to think about would be to just increase our borrowing on that annual basis—so, potentially not even looking to an aggregate increase in our borrowing, which stands at £1 billion, but just to give us some more flexibility to respond in a more urgent and agile way through borrowing should we need to. Also, we're looking for some greater flexibility to use the Wales reserve this year, so, accessing everything that is in the reserve should we need to. I think that that seems like a reasonable request in the circumstances. And we're also seeking some agreement with the UK Government to switch capital to revenue, because of course that doesn't change the overall size of the Welsh Government's budget. So, that is something that I hope the UK Government will look on favourably in the discussions that we'll be having. I know that colleagues across the other devolved administrations are also having those discussions and giving that thought as to what kind of flexibilities they would wish to see.

In terms of the fully devolved taxes, land transaction tax and landfill disposals tax will be inevitably, I think, affected by the COVID crisis. The extent to which it affects our budget, however, depends on the block grant adjustment, so it depends on whether things move in Wales and across the UK in a similar kind of way, and that will show up whether there is a gap or not. On Welsh rates of income tax, of course, revenues from the Welsh rates of income tax and block grant adjustment will be affected by the current crisis. We expect it to be small at the moment, but I think we need to keep an eye on what's happening with the economy; if we are worse affected than other areas, for example, that could become significant. But, of course, we'll only have the outturn information in the summer of 2022, so this will certainly be an issue of ongoing concern for myself and potentially for future finance Ministers as well.

On the last point, about the future generations commissioner's report—it certainly is a thorough and comprehensive document—and that issue of longer term contracts and longer term budgets, I'm always very sympathetic to it, but, as you know, we only have a one-year budget at the moment, and we were expecting that comprehensive spending review later this year. Now, to what extent we can guarantee or count on that, it will remain to be seen, I think.

Diolch am y cwestiynau yna. Roedd y cyntaf yn ymwneud â benthyca, ac wrth gwrs mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru bwerau benthyca cyfyngedig iawn beth bynnag, felly y math o hyblygrwydd yr ydym yn gofyn i Lywodraeth y DU ei ystyried fyddai cynyddu ein benthyca ar y sail flynyddol honno yn unig—felly, o bosibl heb hyd yn oed ystyried cynnydd cyfanredol yn ein benthyca, sef £1 biliwn, ond dim ond i roi ychydig mwy o hyblygrwydd inni ymateb mewn ffordd hyblyg ac ar fyrder drwy fenthyca petai angen i ni wneud hynny. Hefyd, rydym yn chwilio am fwy o hyblygrwydd i ddefnyddio cronfa wrth gefn Cymru eleni, felly, gallu defnyddio popeth sydd yn y gronfa wrth gefn os bydd angen. Credaf fod hynny'n gais rhesymol o dan yr amgylchiadau. Ac rydym ni hefyd yn ceisio cael rhywfaint o gytundeb gyda Llywodraeth y DU i newid cyfalaf i refeniw, oherwydd wrth gwrs nid yw hynny'n newid maint cyffredinol cyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru. Felly, mae hynny'n rhywbeth yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd Llywodraeth y DU yn ei ystyried yn ffafriol yn y trafodaethau y byddwn yn eu cael. Gwn fod cyd-Aelodau ar draws y gweinyddiaethau datganoledig eraill hefyd yn cael y trafodaethau hynny ac yn rhoi'r ystyriaeth honno i'r math o hyblygrwydd y byddent yn dymuno'i weld.

O ran y trethi cwbl ddatganoledig, mae hi'n anochel rwy'n credu, y bydd yr argyfwng COVID yn effeithio ar y dreth trafodiadau tir a'r dreth gwarediadau tirlenwi. Fodd bynnag, mae'r graddau y mae'n effeithio ar ein cyllideb yn dibynnu ar yr addasiad i'r grant bloc, felly mae'n dibynnu a fydd y sefyllfa'n newid yng Nghymru ac ar draws y DU mewn ffordd debyg, a bydd hynny'n dangos a oes bwlch ai peidio. O ran cyfraddau treth incwm Cymru, wrth gwrs, bydd yr argyfwng presennol yn effeithio ar refeniw o gyfraddau treth incwm Cymru a'r addasiad i'r grant bloc. Rydym yn disgwyl y bydd yn fach ar hyn o bryd, ond rwy'n credu bod angen i ni gadw llygad ar yr hyn sy'n digwydd o ran yr economi; os bydd yn effeithio'n fwy arnom ni nag ar ardaloedd eraill, er enghraifft, gallai hynny fod yn arwyddocaol. Ond, wrth gwrs, dim ond yn haf 2022 y cawn yr wybodaeth am yr alldro, felly bydd hwn yn sicr yn fater a fydd yn peri pryder parhaus i mi ac o bosibl i Weinidogion cyllid yn y dyfodol hefyd.

Ynglŷn â'r sylw olaf, ynglŷn ag adroddiad comisiynydd cenedlaethau'r dyfodol—mae'n sicr yn ddogfen drylwyr a chynhwysfawr—a'r mater o gontractau tymor hwy a chyllidebau tymor hwy, rwyf wastad yn fodlon ystyried hynny ond, fel y gwyddoch chi, dim ond cyllideb un flwyddyn sydd gennym ni ar hyn o bryd, ac roeddem yn disgwyl yr adolygiad cynhwysfawr hwnnw o wariant yn ddiweddarach eleni. Nawr, i ba raddau y gallwn ni warantu neu ddibynnu ar hynny, cawn weld, rwy'n credu.

16:35

Gan mai dyma'r tro cyntaf i mi gael holi'r Gweinidog ar lafar yn ystod yr argyfwng yma, dwi am fynd ar ôl ambell fater sylfaenol. Gwnaf ofyn yn gyntaf am ychydig bach mwy o wybodaeth am y mater y gwnaethoch chi ei grybwyll yn y fan yna o ran ceisio cael y Trysorlys i fod yn barod i edrych yn wahanol ar sut y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ddefnyddio pwerau benthyg. Dwi yn gwerthfawrogi'r eglurhad o'r hyn rydych chi yn chwilio amdano fo fel Llywodraeth, ond gaf i ofyn oes yna arwydd wedi dod gan y Trysorlys o ba mor barod maen nhw'n debyg o fod i ymateb yn bositif i'r cais yma sydd wedi dod gan Lywodraeth Cymru er mwyn trio mesur lle ydyn ni ar hyn o bryd?

Mae yna elfennau eraill, dwi'n meddwl, o hyblygrwydd sydd eu hangen hefyd. Dwi'n cyd-fynd efo'r Gweinidog yn dweud bod angen hyblygrwydd ar hyn o bryd. Fformiwla Barnett ydy'r llall—mae'n fformiwla, wrth gwrs, sy'n gwbl anaddas ac mae wedi cael ei beirniadu am ddegawdau erbyn hyn am fethu â bod yn fformiwla sydd yn ymateb i angen. Os edrychwn ni ar sawl ffactor yma yng Nghymru, rydyn ni'n gwybod bod COVID-19 yn taro'r hŷn yn fwy na'r ifanc. Mae'n poblogaeth ni yng Nghymru yn hŷn na'r cyfartaledd drwy'r Deyrnas Unedig. Mae'n feirws sy'n taro pobl lai breintiedig yn economaidd. Mae mwy o gyfran o'r boblogaeth yma yn y categori hwnnw. Felly, pa drafodaethau sydd wedi bod ar gyflwyno system newydd ar yr amser yma? Mae'n amser eithriadol ac felly mae angen trefniadau cyllidol eithriadol hefyd. Mi allem ni gael pocedi dwys o achosion o COVID-19, un ai yng Nghymru neu mewn rhannau o Loegr, neu beth bynnag, ac mi fydd angen hyblygrwydd mewn system, yn cynnwys drwy'r prosesau cyllido, er mwyn sicrhau llif o arian.

As this is the first opportunity I've had to question the Minister during this crisis, I want to pursue a few fundamental issues. I will ask first of all for a little more information about the issue you just mentioned in terms of persuading the Treasury to look differently at how the Welsh Government can use its borrowing powers. I appreciate the clarity in terms of what you're seeking as a Government, but may I ask you whether there's been any indication from the Treasury as to how willing they might be to respond positively to this request made by the Welsh Government so that we can try and assess where we stand at the moment?

There are other elements in terms of flexibility that are required, too. I agree with the Minister when she said that flexibility is required at the moment. The Barnett formula is one such element. This is a formula that's entirely inappropriate, and it's been criticised over a period of decades now for failing to respond to need. If we look at a number of factors here in Wales, we know that COVID-19 hits the elderly more than young people. Our population in Wales is older than the UK average. It hits the less privileged economically and more of our population is in that category. So, what discussions have taken place in terms of introducing a new system at this time? It's an exceptional time, and therefore we do need exceptional fiscal arrangements. We could have very intense pockets of cases of COVID-19 either in Wales or in parts of England, and we will need flexibility in the system, including the fiscal system, in order to secure cashflow.

16:40

I have regular discussions both with my counterparts in the other devolved nations and then also on a quadrilateral basis with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and at our most recent meeting we all talked about the importance of flexibilities, and the Chief Secretary agreed that he would give serious consideration to the proposals that we put forward. So we're having those discussions amongst the three nations. Now, given our different situations and the different settlements that we have, we'll be seeking different kinds of flexibilities, but nonetheless we've undertaken to work together because this is an important issue for the whole of the UK. Those discussions are going on at the moment. I'm hoping that they will lead to some successful outcomes. I don't think that what we're asking is unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination and I think that, actually, some of it will help the UK Government in terms of managing its finances because what we're not asking for is more, we're just asking for more flexibility to access what we already have and what we already plan that we will have as well.

The point about the Barnett formula is well made. We are in complete agreement that it isn't based on need. In the first discussion I had with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury at the start of this crisis, I was very keen to make the points that Rhun ap Iorwerth has just made in terms of our population having a greater need: that point about having a generally older population or a larger proportion of older population within our population in Wales; and that point about the virus having an impact in the communities that are less prosperous. But, also, I think it's important to recognise that there are economic reasons as well why the response should be based on need, one of which is about our economy: we have a larger proportion of small and medium-sized enterprises; we have a larger proportion of manufacturing industries, which, again, are all hard hit; and, of course, the tourism industry is a larger proportion of our economy here in Wales as well. So, all of these factors point to the need to recognise need and recognise the fact that Barnett isn't sufficient in this case. 

These are arguments that we continue to make. There's been no movement on the fundamental of using Barnett as a starting point for this, but I feel more hopeful about having some movement on the flexibilities issue.

Rwy'n cael trafodaethau rheolaidd gyda'm cymheiriaid yn y gwledydd datganoledig eraill ac yna hefyd yn y cyfarfodydd pedairochrog gyda Phrif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys, ac yn ein cyfarfod diweddaraf buom i gyd yn sôn am bwysigrwydd hyblygrwydd, a chytunodd y Prif Ysgrifennydd y byddai'n ystyried o ddifrif y cynigion a gyflwynwyd gennym. Felly rydym ni'n cael y trafodaethau hynny rhwng y tair gwlad. Nawr, o ystyried ein sefyllfaoedd gwahanol a'r gwahanol setliadau sydd gennym ni, byddwn ni'n chwilio am wahanol fathau o hyblygrwydd, ond serch hynny rydym wedi ymrwymo i weithio gyda'n gilydd oherwydd bod hwn yn fater pwysig i'r DU gyfan. Mae'r trafodaethau hynny'n mynd rhagddynt ar hyn o bryd. Rwy'n gobeithio y byddant yn arwain at rai canlyniadau llwyddiannus. Dydw i ddim yn credu bod yr hyn yr ydym ni'n gofyn amdano yn afresymol o bell ffordd ac rwy'n credu, mewn gwirionedd, y bydd rhywfaint ohono yn helpu Llywodraeth y DU o ran rheoli ei chyllid gan mai'r hyn nad ydym yn gofyn amdano yw mwy, dim ond gofyn am fwy o hyblygrwydd i allu defnyddio yr hyn sydd gennym ni eisoes a'r hyn yr ydym yn cynllunio i'w gael hefyd.

Mae'r sylw am fformiwla Barnett yn briodol iawn. Rydym yn cytuno'n llwyr nad yw'n seiliedig ar angen. Yn y drafodaeth gyntaf a gefais gyda Phrif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys ar ddechrau'r argyfwng hwn, roeddwn yn awyddus iawn i grybwyll yr agweddau y mae Rhun ap Iorwerth newydd sôn amdanynt o ran bod gan ein poblogaeth fwy o angen: y pwynt hwnnw fod gennym ni boblogaeth sy'n hŷn yn gyffredinol neu gyfran fwy o bobl hŷn o fewn ein poblogaeth yng Nghymru; a'r pwynt hwnnw am y feirws yn cael effaith yn y cymunedau sy'n llai ffyniannus. Ond, hefyd, rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig cydnabod bod rhesymau economaidd hefyd pam y dylai'r ymateb fod yn seiliedig ar angen, ac mae un ohonyn nhw yn ymwneud â'n heconomi: mae gennym ni gyfran uwch o fusnesau bach a chanolig; mae gennym ni gyfran fwy o ddiwydiannau gweithgynhyrchu, sydd, unwaith eto, wedi cael ergyd galed; ac, wrth gwrs, mae'r diwydiant twristiaeth yn gyfran fwy o'n heconomi yma yng Nghymru hefyd. Felly, mae'r holl ffactorau hyn yn dangos bod angen cydnabod angen a chydnabod y ffaith nad yw Barnett yn ddigonol yn yr achos hwn.

Mae'r rhain yn ddadleuon yr ydym yn parhau i'w cyflwyno. Ni fu unrhyw newid ar y sylfaen o ddefnyddio Barnett fel man cychwyn ar gyfer hyn, ond rwy'n teimlo'n fwy gobeithiol ynghylch cael rhywfaint o newid ar fater hyblygrwydd.

Mae hynny yn newyddion da, dwi'n meddwl. Dylwn i fod wedi crybwyll y ffigurau gan Ganolfan Llywodraethiant Cymru. Dwi'n meddwl yr oedden nhw'n amcangyfrif fis yn ôl fod yr arian ychwanegol sydd i ddod i Gymru drwy Barnett rhyw £500 miliwn yn llai na faint y mae coronafeirws wedi ei gostio i Gymru, felly mae hynny'n rhoi rhyw fath o gyd-destun i ni. Yn ychwanegol at hynny, mae yna bethau eraill y gallwn ni edrych am hyblygrwydd gan y Trysorlys arnyn nhw. Gaf i ofyn pa drafodaethau mae'r Gweinidog wedi eu cael efo Trysorlys Prydain ar roi eglurder ar y shared prosperity fund, er enghraifft, fydd yn allweddol wrth inni symud ymlaen, a hefyd i sicrhau llif arian ar gyfer y bargeinion dinesig yn gyflymach? Bargen y gogledd: dyma ichi faes lle y buasai symud cyflym gan Lywodraethau Cymru a Phrydain yn fuddiol iawn rŵan. Ond, wrth gwrs, o fewn cynlluniau gwariant uniongyrchol Llywodraeth Cymru, mae angen i arian fod yn llifo'n gyflym drwy'r system hefyd. Gaf i ofyn pa gynlluniau sydd ar waith i gyflymu'r prosesau cyllido arferol i wneud yn siŵr bod llywodraeth leol, er enghraifft, yn derbyn arian yn brydlon er mwyn iddyn nhw allu ymdopi efo'r pwysau aruthrol sydd arnyn nhw ar yr amser yma?

That is good news, I think. I should have mentioned the figures from the Wales Governance Centre. I think they estimated a month ago that the additional funding provided to Wales through Barnett was some £500 million less than the cost of coronavirus to Wales, so that gives us some sort of context. In addition to that, there are other areas where we could look for flexibility from the Treasury. Can I ask what discussions the Minister’s had with the UK Treasury on providing clarity on the shared prosperity fund, for example, which will be crucial as we move forward, and also to ensure the flow of funds for the city deals more swiftly? The north Wales growth deal is an area where swift action from the Welsh and UK Governments would be very beneficial indeed now. But, of course, within the direct expenditure plans of the Welsh Government, funding needs to flow quickly through the system as well. Can I ask what plans are in place to hasten the usual fiscal processes to ensure that local government, for example, receives funds in a timely manner so that they can cope with the huge pressures upon them at this time?

The shared prosperity fund and the city deal—both city deals—will be crucial in terms of the recovery as we move out of the immediate impacts of the crisis, and those discussions of course are ongoing. The Federation of Small Businesses today published an important document about how we can support small businesses, and they recognise actually the huge potential of the shared prosperity fund as well. We're having those discussions with the UK Government, or at least trying to. We don't seem to have any clarity on information, but we're certainly making the cases that we've discussed many times before, and also continuing those discussions and continuing to listen to stakeholders, who see the shared prosperity fund as being an important lever for the future as well. 

In terms of local government, we're really aware that cash flow is a particular issue for them, so the Minister for Housing and Local Government has been providing advanced payments and early payments to local authorities to help them with some of that cash flow that they're facing. We also have put in place the £110 million hardship fund for local authorities, and they will draw down that funding as they spend it, but it does give those local authorities the confidence to spend in those areas of free school meal provision, for example, additional funding for social care and the other areas where we've agreed funding, so that they can have the confidence and the freedom to make the decisions that they need to without having to undertake onerous paperwork before accessing that funding. 

Bydd y gronfa ffyniant gyffredin a'r fargen ddinesig—y ddwy fargen ddinesig—yn hollbwysig o ran yr adferiad wrth inni adfer o effeithiau uniongyrchol yr argyfwng, ac mae'r trafodaethau hynny wrth gwrs yn parhau. Cyhoeddodd y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach ddogfen bwysig heddiw ynghylch sut y gallwn ni gefnogi busnesau bach, ac maen nhw'n cydnabod potensial enfawr y gronfa ffyniant gyffredin hefyd. Rydym ni'n cael y trafodaethau hynny gyda Llywodraeth y DU, neu o leiaf yn ceisio eu cael. Nid yw'n ymddangos bod gennym ni unrhyw eglurder o ran gwybodaeth, ond rydym yn sicr yn cyflwyno'r achosion yr ydym ni wedi'u trafod droeon o'r blaen, a hefyd yn parhau â'r trafodaethau hynny ac yn parhau i wrando ar randdeiliaid, sy'n gweld y gronfa ffyniant gyffredin fel arf pwysig ar gyfer y dyfodol hefyd.

O ran llywodraeth leol, rydym yn ymwybodol iawn bod llif arian yn broblem benodol iddyn nhw, felly mae'r Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol wedi bod yn darparu taliadau uwch a thaliadau cynnar i awdurdodau lleol i'w helpu gyda rhywfaint o'r problemau llif arian sy'n eu hwynebu. Rydym ni hefyd wedi sefydlu cronfa galedi o £110 miliwn ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol, a byddant yn defnyddio'r arian hwnnw wrth iddyn nhw ei wario, ond mae'n rhoi hyder i'r awdurdodau lleol hynny i wario yn yr ardaloedd hynny lle mae prydau ysgol am ddim ar gael, er enghraifft, arian ychwanegol ar gyfer gofal cymdeithasol a'r meysydd eraill lle yr ydym ni wedi cytuno ar gyllid, fel y gallant gael yr hyder a'r rhyddid i wneud y penderfyniadau y mae angen iddyn nhw eu gwneud heb orfod gwneud gwaith papur beichus cyn cael y cyllid hwnnw.

16:45

I want to make three very quick points on the Barnett formula and Barnett consequentials. Of course, the Barnett consequential is the minimum amount that we have to have; there's no reason why we cannot be given more than the Barnett formula, and we know that Northern Ireland quite regularly gets more than the Barnett formula. On the consequentials of English-only expenditure in devolved areas, where the money has not come from within the devolved areas, has the Minister actually had her officials do the calculations to make sure we're getting the right amount? And if I go on to one specific position, England has written off health board expenditure that is over 10 per cent of their total expenditure for the year. Can the Minister explain how that was achieved without triggering a Barnett consequential increase for Wales?  

Rwyf eisiau gwneud tri phwynt cyflym iawn ar fformiwla Barnett a symiau canlyniadol Barnett. Wrth gwrs, swm canlyniadol Barnett yw'r isafswm y mae'n rhaid inni ei gael; does dim rheswm pam na allwn ni gael mwy na fformiwla Barnett, a gwyddom fod Gogledd Iwerddon yn cael mwy na fformiwla Barnett yn eithaf rheolaidd. O ran symiau canlyniadol gwariant Lloegr yn unig mewn meysydd datganoledig, lle nad yw'r arian wedi dod o'r meysydd datganoledig, a yw'r Gweinidog wedi sicrhau bod ei swyddogion wedi gwneud y cyfrifiadau i sicrhau ein bod yn cael y swm cywir? Ac os af ymlaen i un sefyllfa benodol, mae Lloegr wedi dileu gwariant y bwrdd iechyd sydd dros 10 y cant o gyfanswm eu gwariant am y flwyddyn. A all y Gweinidog egluro sut y cyflawnwyd hynny heb sbarduno cynnydd canlyniadol Barnett i Gymru?

So, those questions, I completely agree with Mike that Barnett consequentials is the minimum and there's no reason why we shouldn't have additional funding, and that fact was, I think, well recognised by the fact that the UK Government has said that it will provide additional funding to help us deal with the February floods, for example. So, that recognises that there will be special circumstances in parts of the United Kingdom that do require funding over and above the Barnett consequentials. And, again, that precedent is there that funding should be based on need; so, the funding for flooding was certainly in response to need. So, I think that we can continue to press those arguments.

And clearly, before the coronavirus outbreak, we were starting to make a bit of progress in terms of the fiscal framework and to explore how it can better work, and the statement of funding policy can better work for Wales alongside the other devolved nations. And I hope that work will pick up again as soon as we're able to and as soon as appropriate to take that forward. 

I also got excited when I heard about the write-off of the funding in the UK Government, but officials very quickly made some enquiries and that funding was actually accounted for within the budgets of the health department in previous years. So, unfortunately, there was no additional funding for us on that occasion. 

Felly, y cwestiynau yna, rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â Mike mai symiau canlyniadol Barnett yw'r lleiafswm ac nid oes rheswm pam na ddylem ni gael cyllid ychwanegol, ac roedd cydnabyddiaeth lwyr, fe gredaf, i hynny yn y ffaith bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi dweud y bydd yn darparu arian ychwanegol i'n helpu i ymdrin â'r llifogydd ym mis Chwefror, er enghraifft. Felly, mae hynny'n cydnabod y bydd amgylchiadau arbennig mewn rhannau o'r Deyrnas Unedig ble mae angen mwy o arian na symiau canlyniadol Barnett. Ac, unwaith eto, mae'r cynsail yn bodoli y dylai'r cyllid fod yn seiliedig ar angen; felly, roedd yr arian ar gyfer llifogydd yn sicr mewn ymateb i angen. Felly, credaf y gallwn ni barhau i wthio'r dadleuon hynny.

Ac yn amlwg, cyn i haint y coronafeirws fynd ar led, roeddem yn dechrau gwneud ychydig o gynnydd o ran y fframwaith cyllidol ac archwilio sut y gall weithio'n well, a sut y gall y datganiad o bolisi ariannu weithio'n well i Gymru ynghyd â'r gwledydd datganoledig eraill. Ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y gwaith yn ail ddechrau cyn gynted ag y gallwn ni a chyn gynted ag y bo'n briodol i fwrw ymlaen â hynny.

Roeddwn yn llawn cyffro hefyd pan glywais am ddileu'r cyllid yn Llywodraeth y DU, ond gwnaeth swyddogion rai ymholiadau'n gyflym iawn a chanfod bod y cyllid hwnnw wedi'i gyfrifo o fewn cyllidebau'r adran iechyd mewn blynyddoedd blaenorol. Felly, yn anffodus, nid oedd arian ychwanegol ar ein cyfer ni ar yr achlysur hwnnw.

Thank you for your statement, Minister, and it's good to see you and good to—. We're seeing you again on 27 May for the supplementary budget. Could I ask in the meantime—? You emphasised, certainly with the £500 million for the economic resilience fund, spending in Wales is over and above what the UK Government is doing for England. We know that about £100 million of that you're able to fund because of exempting the largest retailers from the business rates comeback. Can you give me any idea of what the other £400 million is in terms of what the UK Government is doing in England to deal with this crisis that you're not doing in Wales, for whatever reason we've taken those choices? 

Can I also ask you about the furlough scheme? I saw figures earlier saying that 74 per cent of businesses in Wales had taken it up compared to 67 per cent in England, and you mentioned some of the sectoral differences as well. I'm concerned that come now perhaps mid July, given that the UK Chancellor's looking for funds to contribute towards that furlough, perhaps 20 per cent of the cost of the wages from the beginning of August, and there's this need for a consultation if firms are going to make redundancies, do you share my concern that there may be significant job losses and that they may be greater in Wales from mid July onwards, as that's anticipated? And is it inevitable that that happens at some point? I mean, the cost of this scheme is greater than funding the NHS, and even the UK Government will struggle to fund that for very long. I don't know what the Minister's expectation is for how that huge £270 billion-odd deficit is dealt with. Presumably, she doesn't want to see renewed austerity. Does she anticipate substantial tax rises across the UK, or does she think it's more likely that that debt and borrowing will be inflated away as money is printed? That choice will make quite a difference to our finances in Wales.

And, finally, can I ask around land transaction tax in particular? She says that we're protected from UK-wide shocks like this, but surely, if we're choosing in Wales to keep the property market shut down, while it reopens in England today, and there are fiscal consequences of that, is she saying that the UK Government should compensate Wales for that decision, or is she expecting to have to find extra money in her budget to make up for the land transaction tax that we won't be receiving for at least a period?

Diolch ichi am eich datganiad, Gweinidog, ac mae'n dda eich gweld ac yn dda i—. Rydym yn eich gweld eto ar 27 Mai ar gyfer y gyllideb atodol. A gaf i ofyn yn y cyfamser—? Roeddech yn pwysleisio, yn sicr gyda'r £500 miliwn ar gyfer y gronfa cadernid economaidd, fod gwariant yng Nghymru yn fwy na'r hyn y mae Llywodraeth y DU yn ei wario yn Lloegr. Rydym yn gwybod eich bod yn gallu ariannu tua £100 miliwn o hynny drwy eithrio'r manwerthwyr mwyaf o'r ardrethi busnes. A allwch chi roi unrhyw syniad imi beth yw'r £400 miliwn arall o ran yr hyn y mae Llywodraeth y DU yn ei wneud yn Lloegr i ymdrin â'r argyfwng hwn nad ydych chi yn ei wneud yng Nghymru, beth bynnag yw'r rheswm pam yr ydym ni wedi gwneud y dewisiadau hynny?

A gaf i hefyd ofyn i chi am y cynllun ffyrlo? Gwelais ffigurau'n gynharach yn dweud bod 74 y cant o fusnesau Cymru wedi'i hawlio o'i gymharu â 67 y cant yn Lloegr, ac fe wnaethoch chi sôn am rai o'r gwahaniaethau sectoraidd hefyd. Rwy'n bryderus efallai erbyn canol Gorffennaf, o gofio bod Canghellor y DU yn chwilio am arian i gyfrannu at y cynllun ffyrlo hwnnw, efallai 20 y cant o gost y cyflogau o ddechrau mis Awst, a bod angen ymgynghori os yw busnesau'n mynd i ddileu swyddi, a ydych chi'n rhannu fy mhryder y gallai fod diswyddiadau sylweddol ac y gallen nhw fod yn fwy yng Nghymru o ganol Gorffennaf ymlaen, gan fod hynny i'w ddisgwyl? Ac a yw'n anochel y bydd hynny'n digwydd ar ryw adeg? Rwy'n credu bod cost y cynllun hwn yn fwy na'r gost o ariannu'r GIG, a bydd hyd yn oed Llywodraeth y DU yn ei chael hi'n anodd ariannu hynny'n hir iawn. Nid wyf yn gwybod beth yw disgwyliadau'r Gweinidog o ran sut yr ymdrinnir â'r diffyg mawr hwnnw o tua £270 biliwn. Yn ôl pob tebyg, nid yw'n dymuno gweld cyni o'r newydd. A yw hi'n rhagweld cynnydd sylweddol yn y dreth ar draws y DU, neu a yw hi'n credu ei bod yn fwy tebygol y bydd y ddyled a benthyca yn chwyddo wrth i arian gael ei argraffu? Bydd y dewis hwnnw'n gwneud cryn wahaniaeth i'n cyllid ni yng Nghymru.

Ac, yn olaf, a gaf i ofyn ynghylch treth trafodiadau tir yn benodol? Mae hi'n dweud ein bod ni'n cael ein diogelu rhag ergydion ar draws y DU fel hyn, ond yn sicr, os ydym yn dewis yng Nghymru i gadw'r farchnad eiddo ynghau, er eu bod yn ailagor yn Lloegr heddiw, ac mae canlyniadau cyllidol yn sgil hynny, a yw'n dweud y dylai Llywodraeth y DU ddigolledu Cymru am y penderfyniad hwnnw, neu a yw hi'n disgwyl gorfod dod o hyd i arian ychwanegol yn ei chyllideb i wneud iawn am y dreth trafodiadau tir na fyddwn yn ei chael am gyfnod?

16:50

Thank you for those questions. It's always nice to see you as well, Mark Reckless. The £500 million spend that we put in place for the economic resilience fund was brought together as a package of funding from different parts of Government. So, it included financial transactions capital, for example—£100 million of that. It also included funding that we were able to free up from elsewhere in Government, so I'm not aware that there is a great deal that the UK Government is doing to support businesses that Welsh Government isn't. However, I'd be keen to explore that.

One thing that we've been trying to do is use our additional funding to close the gaps in support. So, there are some significant gaps in support for business by the UK Government, which the economic resilience fund seeks to do. I'm really aware that there continues to be gaps, which is why the fund has been paused, so that we can consider how we can potentially look to fill some of those existing gaps, whilst also considering how we can focus some of that additional funding on the recovery as well. 

In terms of furloughing, Welsh Government wrote earlier this week, actually, to the Chancellor on the issue of furloughing, and we really welcome the fact that the scheme has been extended. Some of our concern really though is that the scheme shouldn't have any reduction of support for businesses that can't legally open. So, there could be a time when businesses in certain sectors still can't open. So, those businesses, I think, should continue to be protected. And the scheme should continue to offer the same kind of level of intensity of support to tourism businesses, I think, in particular, because we have a larger proportion of them here in Wales. Obviously they have been hard hit and they are telling us that they're facing what's effectively three winters, one after the other, in terms of the kind of profits that they will be able to make. 

We're also keen that the job retention scheme in future has some more flexibility built into it. So, the Wales TUC has asked for businesses to be able potentially to claim as workers come back on a part-time basis, and so on. So, all of those things, I think, are important considerations. The UK Government has agreed that it will be discussing with the devolved nations the next steps for the scheme, and I understand that a meeting with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury is being arranged for next week, so I look forward to continuing those discussions then. 

In terms of how it will all be paid for, I think that is really going to be quite a difficult challenge for the Chancellor, moving ahead with various different options, of course, in terms of whether it means long and sustained austerity. We saw the leaked report earlier on today. So, I think the most important thing—really that has to guide us—is that it can't be the people who are on lowest pay and the poorest people who continue to bear the brunt of this. It seems incongruous that you would be looking to freeze public sector pay at a time when we're all celebrating how important our public sectors workers are to us, and these are the people who are keeping us going at this time. I wish I had a crystal ball, but I think that there are going to be very, very difficult challenges ahead, and difficult times for the economy, as we've seen in lots of the commentary and the projections that have been published. 

On land transaction tax, I don't think that we will see a great divergence. I've asked officials recently, actually, to look at how we can safely reopen the housing market here in Wales, but clearly we won't undertake those steps until we are confident that it is safe for us to do so here. But, this is one of the features of the fiscal framework that we have. Potentially, we could see a negative adjustment were we to have a larger impact on that here in Wales, but we'll keep that under close review.

Diolch am y cwestiynau yna. Mae bob amser yn braf eich gweld hefyd, Mark Reckless. Cafodd y gwariant o £500 miliwn a gyflwynwyd gennym ar gyfer y gronfa cadernid economaidd ei ddwyn ynghyd fel pecyn o gyllid o wahanol rannau o'r Llywodraeth. Felly, roedd yn cynnwys cyfalaf trafodion ariannol, er enghraifft—£100 miliwn o hynny. Roedd hefyd yn cynnwys cyllid yr oeddem yn gallu ei ryddhau o rywle arall yn y Llywodraeth, felly nid wyf yn ymwybodol bod yna lawer iawn y mae Llywodraeth y DU yn ei wneud i gefnogi busnesau nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud. Fodd bynnag, byddwn i'n awyddus archwilio hynny.

Un peth yr ydym ni wedi bod yn ceisio ei wneud yw defnyddio ein cyllid ychwanegol i gau'r bylchau yn y cymorth. Felly, mae rhai bylchau sylweddol mewn cymorth i fusnes gan Lywodraeth y DU, ac mae'r gronfa cadernid economaidd yn ceisio gwneud hynny. Rwy'n ymwybodol iawn bod bylchau'n parhau, a dyna pam mae'r gronfa wedi cael ei rhewi dros dro, fel y gallwn ni ystyried sut y gallwn ni lenwi rhai o'r bylchau sy'n bodoli, gan ystyried hefyd sut y gallwn ni ganolbwyntio rhywfaint o'r arian ychwanegol hwnnw ar yr adferiad hefyd.

O ran y cynllun ffyrlo, ysgrifennodd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gynharach yr wythnos hon, a dweud y gwir, at y Canghellor ynghylch y mater o ffyrlo, ac rydym yn croesawu'n fawr y ffaith bod y cynllun wedi cael ei ymestyn. Yr hyn sy'n ein poeni mewn gwirionedd yw na ddylai'r cynllun leihau'r cymorth i fusnesau na allant agor yn gyfreithlon. Felly, gallai fod adeg pan na all busnesau mewn rhai sectorau agor o hyd. Felly, credaf y dylai'r busnesau hynny barhau i gael eu diogelu. A dylai'r cynllun barhau i gynnig yr un faint o gefnogaeth ddwys i fusnesau twristiaeth, rwy'n credu, yn benodol, gan fod gennym ni gyfran fwy ohonyn nhw yma yng Nghymru. Mae'n amlwg eu bod wedi cael eu taro'n galed ac maen nhw'n dweud wrthym eu bod yn wynebu'r hyn sy'n debyg i dri gaeaf i bob pwrpas, un ar ôl y llall, o ran y math o elw y byddant yn gallu ei wneud.

Rydym ni hefyd yn awyddus bod y cynllun cadw swyddi yn y dyfodol yn cynnwys mwy o hyblygrwydd. Felly, mae TUC Cymru wedi gofyn am yr hawl i fusnesau o bosib hawlio wrth i weithwyr ddod yn ôl yn rhan-amser, ac ati. Felly, mae'r holl bethau hynny, rwy'n credu, yn ystyriaethau pwysig. Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi cytuno y bydd yn trafod camau nesaf y cynllun gyda'r gwledydd datganoledig, a deallaf fod cyfarfod â Phrif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys yn cael ei drefnu ar gyfer yr wythnos nesaf, felly edrychaf ymlaen at barhau â'r trafodaethau hynny.

O ran sut y telir am hynni gyd, credaf y bydd hynny'n her wirioneddol i'r Canghellor mewn gwirionedd, wrth gloriannu gwahanol ddewisiadau, wrth gwrs, o ran a yw'n golygu cyfnod o gyni hir a pharhaus. Gwelsom yr adroddiad a ddatgelwyd yn gynharach heddiw. Felly, rwy'n credu mai'r peth pwysicaf—yn wir, sy'n gorfod ein harwain—yw sicrhau nad y bobl sydd ar y cyflogau lleiaf a'r bobl dlotaf fydd yn parhau i ysgwyddo'r baich hwn. Mae'n ymddangos yn rhywbeth anghyson iawn pe byddech yn ceisio rhewi cyflogau'r sector cyhoeddus ar adeg pan rydym ni i gyd yn dathlu pa mor bwysig yw ein gweithwyr sector cyhoeddus i ni, a dyma'r bobl sy'n ein cadw i fynd ar hyn o bryd. O na fyddai gennyf bêl risial, ond credaf y bydd heriau anodd iawn yn ein hwynebu, a chyfnodau anodd i'r economi, fel yr ydym ni wedi'i weld mewn nifer o'r sylwadau a'r rhagamcanion sydd wedi'u cyhoeddi.

O ran treth trafodiadau tir, nid wyf yn credu y gwelwn ni wahaniaethu mawr. Rwyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion yn ddiweddar, mewn gwirionedd, i ystyried sut y gallwn ni ailagor y farchnad dai yn ddiogel yma yng Nghymru, ond yn amlwg ni fyddwn yn ymgymryd â'r camau hynny nes ein bod yn ffyddiog ei bod yn ddiogel i ni wneud hynny yma. Ond, dyma un o nodweddion y fframwaith cyllidol sydd gennym ni. Mae'n bosib y gallem weld addasiad negyddol pe baem yn cael effaith fwy ar hynny yma yng Nghymru, ond byddwn yn parhau i adolygu hynny'n fanwl.

16:55

Although the top-up business grant announced by the UK Government for England includes grants to bed and breakfast businesses that pay domestic rates rather than business rates, the Welsh Government omitted this when it extended its COVID-19 grant scheme. How do you therefore respond to the bed and breakfast owners in north Wales who have asked me to tell you that if they don't receive the grant, their businesses will cease trading this month?

And the Welsh Government is receiving £35 million of the £750 million charity support announced by the UK Government, including £1.7 million from the extra £76 million announced to support survivors of domestic abuse, sexual violence and modern slavery, and ensure that vulnerable children and young people receive the help they need, and is receiving £12 million in consequence of the £200 million for hospices in England—a lot more than the £6.3 million it's announced for hospices in Wales. So how much of this will the voluntary sector providers in Wales delivering these specialist services, taking pressure of statutory health and care services, receive?

Er bod y grant busnes atodol a gyhoeddwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU ar gyfer Lloegr yn cynnwys grantiau i fusnesau gwely a brecwast sy'n talu ardrethi domestig yn hytrach nag ardrethi busnes, hepgorodd Llywodraeth Cymru hyn pan estynnodd ei chynllun grant COVID-19. Felly, sut ydych chi'n ymateb i berchnogion busnesau gwely a brecwast yn y gogledd sydd wedi gofyn imi ddweud wrthych, os na fyddant yn cael y grant, y bydd eu busnesau'n rhoi'r gorau i fasnachu y mis hwn?

Ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cael £35 miliwn o'r £750 miliwn o gymorth elusennol a gyhoeddwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU, gan gynnwys £1.7 miliwn o'r £76 miliwn ychwanegol a gyhoeddwyd i gefnogi goroeswyr cam-drin domestig, trais rhywiol a chaethwasiaeth fodern, a sicrhau bod plant a phobl ifanc sy'n agored i niwed yn cael y cymorth sydd ei angen arnyn nhw, ac yn cael £12 miliwn o ganlyniad i'r £200 miliwn ar gyfer hosbisau yn Lloegr—llawer mwy na'r £6.3 miliwn a gyhoeddwyd ar gyfer hosbisau yng Nghymru. Felly faint o hyn fydd y darparwyr sector gwirfoddol yng Nghymru sy'n darparu'r gwasanaethau arbenigol hyn, gan dynnu pwysau oddi ar wasanaethau iechyd a gofal statudol, yn ei gael?

I'll start with the issue of hospices in Wales, which you've described. You're correct that the amount that we have allocated to hospices in Wales is less than the amount that we received as a Barnett consequential, but that is simply a reflection of the fact that we have fewer hospices here in Wales. So, we have worked closely, actually, with the hospices to find a way in which we can fairly meet the income that they're unable to generate at the moment through their various activities, and so on. But, as I say, we've worked with that sector, and I think that we've provided a settlement that does enable them to continue to do the vital work that they're doing at this moment. I haven't heard that the funding has not been sufficient for that, but certainly if Mark Isherwood has evidence or representations to make on that I'd be happy, of course, to listen to them.

The funding that we announced very early on was over and above the funding that then came from the UK Government for the third sector. But I do have to be clear here that we're not just a halfway house for UK Government funding, where we just administer it to the same projects; we will take decisions based on the needs of our society and of our economy. So, it won't always be the case that exactly the same amount of money goes to exactly the same project or group of stakeholders, because of the nature of devolution and our ability to be more responsive to the particular needs that we have here.

On the issue of B&Bs, I'm very aware that they're not currently able to access support, and I did say that the economic resilience fund has currently been paused in order for us to continue to consider where the gaps remain in terms of the support that people are able to access at the moment, and also to consider the balance that we've put on continuing to respond to the immediate crisis, but then also turning our focus onto the recovery and the reopening of the economy. So that work is continuing in terms of the next phase of the economic resilience fund, and I know that my colleague, Ken Skates, looks forward to making an announcement as soon as he is able to.

Dechreuaf gyda mater hosbisau yng Nghymru, a ddisgrifiwyd gennych chi. Rydych chi'n gywir bod y swm yr ydym ni wedi'i ddyrannu i hosbisau yng Nghymru yn llai na'r swm a gawsom ni fel arian canlyniadol Barnett, ond dim ond adlewyrchu'r ffaith bod gennym ni lai o hosbisau yma yng Nghymru y mae hynny. Felly, rydym ni wedi gweithio'n agos, mewn gwirionedd, â'r hosbisau i ganfod ffordd y gallwn ni wneud iawn am yr incwm na allant ei gynhyrchu ar hyn o bryd drwy eu hamrywiol weithgareddau, ac ati. Ond, fel rwy'n dweud, rydym ni wedi gweithio gyda'r sector hwnnw, ac rwy'n credu ein bod ni wedi darparu setliad sy'n eu galluogi i barhau i wneud y gwaith hanfodol y maen nhw'n ei wneud ar hyn o bryd. Nid wyf wedi clywed nad yw'r cyllid wedi bod yn ddigonol ar gyfer hynny, ond yn sicr os oes gan Mark Isherwood dystiolaeth neu sylwadau i'w gwneud ar hynny byddwn i'n fodlon, wrth gwrs, gwrando arnyn nhw.

Roedd y cyllid a gyhoeddwyd gennym ni yn gynnar iawn yn fwy na'r cyllid a ddaeth wedyn gan Lywodraeth y DU ar gyfer y trydydd sector. Ond mae'n rhaid i mi fod yn glir yma nad dim ond rhyw adran ddosbarthu ar gyfer cyllid Llywodraeth y DU ydym ni, yn gwneud dim mwy na'i weinyddu ar gyfer yr un prosiectau; byddwn yn gwneud penderfyniadau ar sail anghenion ein cymdeithas a'n heconomi ni. Felly, ni fydd yn wir bob amser bod yr un swm o arian yn union yn mynd i'r un prosiect neu grŵp o randdeiliaid yn union, oherwydd natur datganoli a'n gallu i fod yn fwy ymatebol i'r anghenion penodol sydd gennym ni yma.

Ar fater busnesau gwely a brecwast, rwy'n ymwybodol iawn nad oes cymorth ar gael iddyn nhw ar hyn o bryd, a dywedais fod y gronfa cadernid economaidd wedi'i rhewi ar hyn o bryd er mwyn inni barhau i ystyried lle mae'r bylchau o hyd o ran y cymorth y gall pobl ei gael ar hyn o bryd, a hefyd i ystyried y modd yr ydym ni wedi ceisio cael cydbwysedd rhwng ran parhau i ymateb i'r argyfwng disyfyd, ond yna hefyd i droi ein sylw at adferiad ac ailagor yr economi. Felly mae'r gwaith yna'n parhau o ran cam nesaf y gronfa cadernid economaidd, a gwn fod fy nghyd-Aelod, Ken Skates, yn edrych ymlaen at wneud cyhoeddiad cyn gynted ag y bydd yn gallu gwneud hynny.

Minister, a leaked internal Treasury report contains reference to freezing public sector pay for two years as one measure that's being considered as a response to coronavirus expenditure. That would be a betrayal of the sacrifices made by dedicated public servants during the crisis—a point that was made by the chair of the Police Federation today. And if there's one lesson that we should learn from the pandemic, it's that austerity left us under-prepared to deal with a crisis of this magnitude. Minister, we don't yet know what the UK Government's plans are for certain, so this is only speculation at this point. But I'd like to ask you, do you agree that further austerity should be ruled out as a response to the pandemic, and, if so, what economic and fiscal levers does the Welsh Government think should be devolved so that we in Wales have the option of taking a different financial route from England?

Gweinidog, mae adroddiad mewnol y Trysorlys a ddatgelwyd yn cynnwys cyfeiriad at rewi cyflog y sector cyhoeddus am ddwy flynedd fel un mesur sy'n cael ei ystyried yn ymateb i'r gwariant ar y coronafeirws. Byddai hynny'n bradychu'r aberth a wnaed gan weision cyhoeddus ymroddedig yn ystod yr argyfwng—sylw a wnaethpwyd gan gadeirydd Ffederasiwn yr Heddlu heddiw. Ac os oes un wers y dylem ni ei dysgu o'r pandemig, honno yw bod cyni wedi ein gadael ni yn llai na hanner parod i ymdrin ag argyfwng mor fawr â hyn. Gweinidog, nid ydym yn gwybod yn sicr eto beth yw cynlluniau Llywodraeth y DU, felly dyfalu yn unig yw hyn ar hyn o bryd. Ond hoffwn ofyn i chi, a ydych yn cytuno y dylid diystyru mwy o gyni fel ymateb i'r pandemig, ac, os felly, pa ysgogiadau economaidd ac ariannol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn credu y dylid eu datganoli er mwyn i ni yng Nghymru gael y dewis i ddilyn llwybr ariannol gwahanol i Loegr?

Unfortunately, I missed the start of your question, Delyth—in fact I only picked up from 'considered'. I think there was an issue with the sound. But if you're asking if I think further austerity should be avoided and is a bad thing, then absolutely, I would agree with you on that count.

In terms of what should be further devolved, of course, Welsh Government has had that programme of work that asked the people of Wales what they would like to see in terms of additional tax-raising powers for Wales, as we set out the taxes that we would seek to explore in the first instance. I think perhaps, as we move through the crisis, it probably will give us pause for thought in terms of the future of those taxes and those areas where we would like to focus our attention. So, at the moment, within Government, we've paused the work on developing those tax ideas and pursuing those tax ideas. The staff involved in that are now working on the coronavirus response. So, I think, I don't have any answer for Delyth on this today, but she raises an important point that this is an area where, I think, fresh thinking will be required as a result of coronavirus and everything that it's taught us.

Yn anffodus, collais ddechrau eich cwestiwn, Delyth—yn wir, dim ond o 'ystyried' ymlaen a glywais. Rwy'n credu y cafwyd problem gyda'r sain. Ond os ydych chi'n gofyn a ydw i'n credu y dylid osgoi mwy o gyni a'i fod yn beth drwg, yna yn bendant, byddwn i'n cytuno â chi ynghylch hynny.

O ran yr hyn y dylid ei ddatganoli ymhellach, wrth gwrs, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cael y rhaglen waith honno a ofynnodd i bobl Cymru beth fydden nhw'n hoffi ei weld o ran pwerau ychwanegol i godi trethi i Gymru, gan i ni nodi'r trethi y byddem yn ceisio eu hystyried yn y lle cyntaf. Rwy'n credu efallai, wrth i ni fynd drwy'r argyfwng, mae'n debyg y bydd yn rhoi munud i feddwl inni o ran dyfodol y trethi hynny a'r meysydd hynny yr hoffem ni ganolbwyntio arnyn nhw. Felly, ar hyn o bryd, yn y Llywodraeth, rydym ni wedi gohirio dros dro y gwaith ar ddatblygu'r syniadau treth hynny a mynd ar drywydd y syniadau treth hynny. Mae'r staff a oedd yn ymwneud â hynny bellach yn gweithio ar ymateb i'r coronafeirws. Felly, rwy'n credu, nad oes gennyf i ateb i Delyth ynghylch hyn heddiw, ond mae hi'n gwneud sylw pwysig bod hwn yn faes lle, rwy'n credu, y bydd angen meddwl o'r newydd yn ei gylch yn sgil y coronafeirws a phopeth y mae wedi ei ddysgu i ni.

17:00

Thank you for your report, Minister, but there is definitely fresh thinking that is required by the UK Government because what the leaked report showed was that one of their first ways of thinking was to freeze public sector pay for two years, at the same time, raising income tax across the board, I presume, by 1 per cent. So, we've gone back to exactly the same place that led us into this crisis, as you've already said. That austerity left us ill-prepared, but more than that, we've seen public sector workers in the care sector, in nursing, really putting their own lives and those of their families, on the line for everybody else, and we've seen people, quite rightly, outside their homes at 8 o'clock every Thursday night paying tribute by clapping in honour of their sacrifice. So, I hope that you will make serious recommendations to the Chancellor when you next speak to him, that, in Wales, at least, most people would find that absolutely appalling—that they would take that pay away from the people who've given so much to this country.

Diolch ichi am eich adroddiad, Gweinidog, ond yn sicr mae angen i Lywodraeth y DU feddwl o'r newydd, oherwydd yr hyn a ddangosodd yr adroddiad a ddatgelwyd oedd mai un o'u ffyrdd cyntaf o feddwl oedd rhewi cyflogau'r sector cyhoeddus am ddwy flynedd, ar yr un pryd, codi treth incwm yn gyffredinol, yn ôl pob golwg, o 1 y cant. Felly, rydym ni wedi mynd yn ôl i'r un lle yn union a'n harweiniodd ni i'r argyfwng hwn, fel rydych chi wedi'i ddweud yn barod. Gadawodd y cyni hwnnw ni'n llai na hanner parod ond yn fwy na hynny, rydym ni wedi gweld gweithwyr y sector cyhoeddus yn y sector gofal, mewn nyrsio, yn rhoi eu bywydau eu hunain a bywyd eu teuluoedd, mewn perygl er mwyn pawb arall, ac rydym ni wedi gweld pobl, yn gwbl briodol, y tu allan i'w cartrefi am 8 o'r gloch bob nos Iau yn talu teyrnged drwy guro dwylo i barchu eu haberth. Felly, gobeithiaf y byddwch yn argymell y Canghellor o ddifrif pan siaradwch ag ef nesaf, y byddai'r rhan fwyaf o bobl yng Nghymru, o leiaf, yn gweld hynny'n gwbl warthus—pe bydden nhw'n cymryd y cyflog hwnnw oddi ar y bobl sydd wedi rhoi cymaint i'r wlad hon.