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Y Cyfarfod Llawn

Plenary

25/09/2019

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair. 

The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

Enwebiadau ar gyfer cadeirydd pwyllgor
Nominations for a committee chair

Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni y prynhawn yma yw'r enwebiadau ar gyfer cadeirydd pwyllgor. Ddoe, fe fyddwch chi'n cofio bod y Cynulliad, ar gynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.2A i bennu Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor ar Ddiwygio Etholiadol y Cynulliad, wedi pennu'r gadeiryddiaeth yna i'r grŵp Llafur. Dwi nawr yn gwahodd enwebiadau, o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.2F, i ethol y Cadeirydd, ac, i'ch atgoffa, dim ond aelod o'r grŵp Llafur all gael ei enwebu'n Gadeirydd, a dim on aelod o'r un grŵp gwleidyddol â hynny sy'n cael cynnig ac eiliio'r enwebiad. Ac, felly, dwi'n gwahodd enwebiadau o'r grŵp Llafur ar gyfer Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor ar Ddiwygio Etholiadol y Cynulliad. 

The first item on our agenda this afternoon is the nominations for a committee chair. Yesterday, you’ll recall that the Assembly agreed a motion under Standing Order 17.2A to allocate the Chair of the Committee on Assembly Electoral Reform to the Labour group. I now invite nominations under Standing Order 17.2F for the election of the Chair, and, just to remind you, only a member of the Labour group may be nominated as Chair and only a member of the same political group may make and second a nomination. Therefore, I invite nominations from the Labour group for Chair of the Committee on Assembly Electoral Reform.

I nominate Dawn Bowden, Presiding Officer. 

Rwy'n enwebu Dawn Bowden, Lywydd.

Dwi'n galw am Aelod arall o'r un grŵp plaid i eilio'r enwebiad. 

I call for another member of the same party group to second the nomination.

A oes rhagor o enwebiadau? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu'r enwebiad? Rwy'n datgan, felly, fod Dawn Bowden wedi ei hethol yn Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor ar Ddiwygio Etholiadol y Cynulliad, a phob dymuniad da a phob hwyl iddi hi yn ei gwaith fel y Cadeirydd. 

Are there any further nominations? Does any Member object to the nomination? I therefore declare that Dawn Bowden is elected as Chair of the Committee on Assembly Electoral Reform, and I wish her well and wish her the best of luck in that work as Chair of the committee.

1. Cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Addysg
1. Questions to the Minister for Education

Yr eitem nesaf yw'r cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Addysg, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Michelle Brown. 

The next item is questions to the Minister for Education, and the first question is from Michelle Brown.

Addysgu'r Gymraeg
The Teaching of the Welsh Language

1. Pa asesiad y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'i wneud o ba mor effeithiol yw addysgu'r Gymraeg mewn ysgolion? OAQ54370

1. What assessment has the Minister made of how effective the teaching of the Welsh language is in schools? OAQ54370

Since the 'One language for all' report in 2013, Estyn published a report on Welsh in key stages 2 and 3 in 2018, and two further reviews will be undertaken during 2019-20, looking at language acquisition in primary schools, and the teaching and learning of Welsh at A-level.

Ers adroddiad 'Un iaith i bawb' yn 2013, cyhoeddodd Estyn adroddiad ar y Gymraeg yng nghyfnodau allweddol 2 a 3 yn 2018, a bydd dau adolygiad pellach yn cael eu cynnal yn ystod 2019-20, a fydd yn edrych ar gaffael iaith mewn ysgolion cynradd, ac addysgu a dysgu Cymraeg safon uwch.

Thanks for that answer, Minister. On the day GCSE results came out over the summer, school leaders said that they were extremely concerned at the fall in the percentage of 16-year-olds passing Welsh second language at A* to C, and their association called on the Welsh Government to work with them to find out what has caused the 10 per cent fall in grades. But it wasn't just Welsh they were concerned about. The 4.3 per cent drop in English results also prompted them to call for more work from the Welsh Government. The director of the Association of School and College Leaders Cymru seems to be blaming the changes you have made, when he said, and I quote,

'We can assure the public that there has been absolutely not let-up in the commitment of schools to produce the very best outcomes for their pupils, and it is important to understand that these results come at a time of enormous change in the Welsh education system.'

And the National Association of Head Teachers Cymru also said that more work needs to be done. The two languages of most importance in the country are Welsh and English, and you seem to be failing our pupils on both. Can you tell us how you're going to stop the education system delivering worse results for these subjects year on year?

Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Ar ddiwrnod cyhoeddi'r canlyniadau TGAU dros yr haf, dywedodd arweinwyr ysgolion eu bod yn pryderu'n fawr am y cwymp yng nghanran y plant 16 oed a oedd yn pasio Cymraeg ail iaith gyda graddau A* i C, ac roedd eu cymdeithas yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i weithio gyda hwy i ddarganfod beth sydd wedi achosi'r gostyngiad o 10 y cant yn y graddau. Ond nid Cymraeg yn unig oedd yn peri pryder iddynt. Roedd y gostyngiad o 4.3 y cant yn y canlyniadau Saesneg hefyd yn eu hysgogi i alw am fwy o waith gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Mae'n ymddangos bod cyfarwyddwr Cymdeithas Arweinwyr Ysgolion a Cholegau Cymru yn rhoi'r bai ar y newidiadau a wnaethoch, pan ddywedodd, ac rwy'n dyfynnu,

Gallwn sicrhau'r cyhoedd na fu unrhyw lacio o gwbl yn ymrwymiad ysgolion i gynhyrchu'r canlyniadau gorau posibl i'w disgyblion, ac mae'n bwysig deall bod y canlyniadau hyn yn dod ar adeg o newid enfawr yn y system addysg yng Nghymru.

A dywedodd Cymdeithas Genedlaethol Prifathrawon Cymru hefyd fod angen gwneud mwy o waith. Y ddwy iaith bwysicaf yn y wlad yw'r Gymraeg a'r Saesneg, ac mae'n ymddangos eich bod yn gwneud cam â'n disgyblion yn y ddwy. A allwch chi ddweud wrthym sut y bwriadwch atal y system addysg rhag darparu canlyniadau gwaeth yn y pynciau hyn o flwyddyn i flwyddyn?

With regard to Welsh second language GCSE results, I'm sure the Member is aware that, this year, we saw the removal of the short course GCSE, and that undoubtedly has had an impact on attainment this year. But the percentages that she has quoted are misleading, due to an increase of a third in the number of learners entered for a full course exam. Many learners would have previously accessed the short course, and the arguments around the need for change in that regard are well rehearsed here in this Chamber. What is really encouraging, Presiding Officer, is that, when looking at raw numbers for passes at each grade, we have seen an increase in the grades of A*-A, up 9.7 per cent, and at A*-C, up 12.5 per cent, which suggests that the increase in entry numbers is resulting in more learners attaining a good pass in Welsh second language GCSE—an improved and more challenging qualification. 

With regard to English, I'm pleased to see an improved outcome in English language, particularly at A* to C, but, clearly, there is always room for improvement, and we shall be working with regional consortia, schools and Qualifications Wales with regard to more steps we can take with regard to improving results in English language. 

O ran canlyniadau TGAU Cymraeg ail iaith, rwy'n siŵr fod yr Aelod yn ymwybodol ein bod wedi gweld y cwrs byr TGAU yn cael ei ddileu, ac mae hynny'n sicr wedi cael effaith ar gyrhaeddiad eleni. Ond mae'r canrannau a ddyfynnodd yn gamarweiniol, oherwydd cynnydd o draean yn nifer y dysgwyr a gofrestrwyd ar gyfer arholiad cwrs llawn. Byddai llawer o ddysgwyr wedi dilyn y cwrs byr yn y gorffennol, ac mae'r dadleuon ynghylch yr angen am newid yn y cyswllt hwnnw wedi'u trafod ar sawl achlysur yma yn y Siambr. Yr hyn sy'n galonogol iawn, Lywydd, wrth edrych ar y niferoedd crai sy'n pasio pob gradd, yw ein bod wedi gweld y graddau A*-A yn cynyddu 9.7 y cant a'r graddau A*-C yn cynyddu 12.5 y cant, sy'n awgrymu bod y cynnydd yn y nifer sy'n ymgeisio yn arwain at fwy o ddysgwyr yn cael gradd dda mewn TGAU Cymraeg ail iaith—cymhwyster gwell a mwy heriol.

O ran Saesneg, rwy'n falch o weld canlyniadau gwell mewn TGAU Saesneg iaith, yn enwedig A*-C, ond, yn amlwg, mae lle i wella bob amser, a byddwn yn gweithio gyda chonsortia rhanbarthol, ysgolion a Cymwysterau Cymru i drafod pa gamau eraill y gallwn eu cymryd i wella canlyniadau mewn TGAU Saesneg iaith.

Minister, I was, I must admit, a little surprised to see in Stats Wales that, as well as those who are qualified to teach Welsh as a first language, 40 per cent of our teaching workforce is qualified to teach Welsh in English-medium schools as a second language. Whether they're using those skills, of course, is a little let easy to ascertain. The number of new entrants choosing to train in Welsh has been falling, and the number of people who believe that learning Welsh should not be compulsory is still disappointingly high. So, what practical steps are being taken now, with the current workforce, to ensure effective teaching to a new Welsh language continuum, to produce young people with higher Welsh language skills, which they will use confidently after they've left school?

Weinidog, wrth edrych ar Ystadegau Cymru, mae'n rhaid cyfaddef fy mod yn synnu braidd o weld, yn ogystal â'r rhai sy'n gymwys i ddysgu Cymraeg fel iaith gyntaf, fod 40 y cant o'n gweithlu addysgu yn gymwysedig i ddysgu Cymraeg fel ail iaith mewn ysgolion cyfrwng Saesneg. Wrth gwrs, mae'n anos gwybod a ydynt yn defnyddio'r sgiliau hynny ai peidio. Mae nifer y newydd-ddyfodiaid sy'n dewis hyfforddi yn y Gymraeg wedi bod yn gostwng, ac mae nifer y bobl sy'n credu na ddylai dysgu Cymraeg fod yn orfodol yn dal i fod yn siomedig o uchel. Felly, pa gamau ymarferol sy'n cael eu cymryd yn awr, gyda'r gweithlu presennol, i sicrhau addysgu effeithiol ar gontinwwm iaith Gymraeg newydd, i gynhyrchu pobl ifanc sy'n meddu ar sgiliau Cymraeg uwch, y byddant yn eu defnyddio'n hyderus ar ôl iddynt adael yr ysgol?

13:35

Well, it's important to recognise that we have increased investment to support the development in the Welsh in education workforce to a record amount of £5 million in this financial year. So, in 2017, we spent £4.2 million, then £4.8 million, and, as I said, this year that's risen to £5 million. This allows us to provide continuous development of practitioners' Welsh language and teaching skills. For instance, one practical way in which we do that is through our sabbatical scheme, which provides intensive Welsh language training to practitioners across Wales. And funding is also being made available and provided to regional consortia to offer a range of opportunities to develop Welsh language and the Welsh language teaching skills in our workforce. For those wishing to enter the profession, to teach either Welsh language itself, or to teach other subjects through the medium of Welsh, we offer the highest level of financial incentive for them to do that.

Wel, mae'n bwysig cydnabod ein bod wedi cynyddu buddsoddiad i gefnogi'r gwaith o ddatblygu'r gweithlu Cymraeg mewn addysg i'r swm uchaf erioed o £5 miliwn yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon. Felly, yn 2017, gwariwyd £4.2 miliwn gennym, yna £4.8 miliwn, ac fel y dywedais, mae hwnnw wedi codi i £5 miliwn eleni. Mae hyn yn ein galluogi i ddatblygu sgiliau iaith ac addysgu Cymraeg addysgwyr yn barhaus. Er enghraifft, un ffordd ymarferol y gwnawn hynny yw drwy ein cynllun sabothol, sy'n darparu hyfforddiant Cymraeg dwys i addysgwyr ledled Cymru. Ac mae cyllid ar gael hefyd ac yn cael ei ddarparu i gonsortia rhanbarthol er mwyn cynnig ystod o gyfleoedd i ddatblygu'r Gymraeg a sgiliau addysgu Cymraeg yn ein gweithlu. I'r rhai sy'n dymuno ymuno â'r proffesiwn, i addysgu'r Gymraeg ei hun, neu i addysgu pynciau eraill drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, rydym yn cynnig y lefel uchaf o gymhelliant ariannol iddynt wneud hynny.

Cyrsiau Galwedigaethol
Vocational Courses

2. Sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn sicrhau bod disgyblion yng Nghyfnod Allweddol 4 yn cael mynediad i gyrsiau galwedigaethol? OAQ54368

2. How is the Welsh Government ensuring that pupils at Key Stage 4 have access to vocational courses? OAQ54368

Thank you, Nick. I place great value on vocational qualifications being available for 14 to 16-year-olds. The Learning and Skills (Wales) Measure 2009 requires all learners to be offered a minimum of three vocational courses at key stage 4 in the local curricula offer.

Diolch, Nick. Rwy'n rhoi gwerth mawr ar sicrhau bod cymwysterau galwedigaethol ar gael i bobl ifanc 14 i 16 oed. Mae Mesur Dysgu a Sgiliau (Cymru) 2009 yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i'r cynnig cwricwla lleol gynnig lleiafswm o dri chwrs galwedigaethol i bob dysgwr yng nghyfnod allweddol 4.

Thank you, Minister. You've been quite clear that your move away from the five A* to C English and Maths measure was designed to encourage schools to focus on realising the potential of every child, not just those on the C/D/C borderline. Your new measure—the capped 9—puts value on vocational courses, which is very welcome, and, as she says, so many young people can secure a rewarding and successful career through the vocational route. However, we're still some way off, as I'm sure you would recognise as well, between achieving that university-recognised parity between academical and vocational qualifications. So, what are you doing to ensure greater availability of such courses in schools and colleges, and to ensure even more effective signposting for younger people, at an earlier age, so that we do see, over time, that the loss of—I was going to say 'prejudice'; that's probably too strong a word—the loss of that difference between vocational and academic so that both routes are equally acceptable?

Diolch i chi, Weinidog. Rydych wedi dweud yn gwbl glir mai'r bwriad wrth symud oddi wrth y mesur pum A* i C Saesneg a Mathemateg oedd annog ysgolion i ganolbwyntio ar wireddu potensial pob plentyn, nid y rheini ar y ffin C/D/C yn unig. Mae eich mesur newydd—capio 9—yn rhoi gwerth ar gyrsiau galwedigaethol, ac mae hynny i'w groesawu'n fawr, ac fel y dywed, mae cynifer o bobl ifanc yn gallu sicrhau gyrfa lwyddiannus a buddiol drwy'r llwybr galwedigaethol. Fodd bynnag, mae cryn dipyn o ffordd i fynd o hyd, fel y byddech yn cydnabod rwy'n siŵr, cyn y gellir sicrhau statws cydradd wedi'i gydnabod gan brifysgolion rhwng cymwysterau academaidd a galwedigaethol. Felly, beth a wnewch i sicrhau bod mwy o gyrsiau o'r fath ar gael mewn ysgolion a cholegau, ac i sicrhau bod pobl iau yn cael eu cyfeirio'n fwy effeithiol byth, ar oedran iau, fel ein bod yn gweld colli—roeddwn am ddweud 'rhagfarn'; mae'n debyg fod hwnnw'n air rhy gryf—colli'r gwahaniaeth dros amser rhwng cymwysterau galwedigaethol ac academaidd fel bod y ddau lwybr yn cael eu hystyried yr un mor dderbyniol?

Presiding Officer, I'm very glad that the Member has recognised, in the interim accountability measures, vocational qualifications do count towards a capped 9 score. So, there is no disincentive for schools to be able to offer these courses to pupils, where that is the right thing for those children. I'm very pleased to reassure the Member that all four secondary schools in Monmouthshire are meeting the requirement of the learning and skills Measure, and that that choice is available to learners in his area. For example, in King Henry VIII Comprehensive School, in Abergavenny—which I had the privilege to visit on GCSE day, and to celebrate with them a record set of GCSE results for that school—learners in that particular school are offered eight vocational courses at key stage 4. But the Member is right—there is more that we need to do to sometimes overcome perceptions of the value of vocational courses. And that's why we are currently piloting a new approach to information and advice to children and young people, so that we can ensure that all children are making the right choices on the basis of a real understanding and knowledge that vocational qualifications can help them achieve their career aspirations and fulfil their potential.

Lywydd, rwy'n falch iawn fod yr Aelod wedi cydnabod, yn y mesurau atebolrwydd interim, fod cymwysterau galwedigaethol yn cyfrif tuag at sgôr capio 9. Felly, ni cheir unrhyw anghymhelliad i ysgolion allu cynnig y cyrsiau hyn i ddisgyblion, os mai dyna yw'r peth iawn i'r plant hynny. Rwy'n falch iawn o roi sicrwydd i'r Aelod fod pob un o'r pedair ysgol uwchradd yn Sir Fynwy yn bodloni gofyniad y Mesur dysgu a sgiliau, a bod y dewis hwnnw ar gael i ddysgwyr yn ei ardal. Er enghraifft, yn Ysgol Gyfun y Brenin Harri VIII, yn y Fenni—y cefais y fraint o ymweld â hi ar ddiwrnod y canlyniadau TGAU, a dathlu'r set orau erioed o ganlyniadau TGAU yn yr ysgol honno gyda hwy—mae dysgwyr yn yr ysgol benodol honno'n cael cynnig wyth cwrs galwedigaethol yng nghyfnod allweddol 4. Ond mae'r Aelod yn iawn—mae angen i ni wneud mwy weithiau i oresgyn canfyddiadau o werth cyrsiau galwedigaethol. A dyna pam ein bod ar hyn o bryd yn treialu dull newydd o roi gwybodaeth a chyngor i blant a phobl ifanc, fel y gallwn sicrhau bod pob plentyn yn gwneud y dewisiadau cywir ar sail dealltwriaeth a gwybodaeth go iawn y gall cymwysterau galwedigaethol eu helpu i gyflawni eu dyheadau gyrfaol a chyflawni eu potensial.

Minister, in your answer to the question from Nick Ramsay, I'm very keen and very pleased to hear that you actually recognise vocational education as being equivalent to academic pathways. And it's a shame that not enough young people—or their parents in particular, sometimes—understand the same thing. Because to ensure that we have that parity, to ensure that the skills that we need in Wales are available to people—and young people in particular—we also need to educate some of the older generation, and the parents, to ensure they also understand that. Because many people over the last 20 years have been pumped the message, 'Higher education, that's the way to go.' But actually there's a mix that is available, and equally treatable are both qualifications—vocational and academic. And they should not be seen as separate pathway, but as a single pathway with perhaps different outcomes at the end of it, but, at the end of the day, equal outcomes. So, will you also expand the discussions you're having with young people to their parents, to ensure that parents understand the importance of both pathways, the quality of both pathways, and the outcomes that children can actually achieve in their long-term careers?

Weinidog, yn eich ateb i gwestiwn Nick Ramsay, rwy'n awyddus iawn ac yn falch iawn o glywed eich bod yn cydnabod mewn gwirionedd fod addysg alwedigaethol yn gyfwerth â llwybrau academaidd. Ac mae'n drueni nad oes digon o bobl ifanc—neu eu rhieni yn enwedig, weithiau—yn deall yr un peth. Oherwydd er mwyn sicrhau bod gennym y statws cydradd hwnnw, er mwyn sicrhau bod y sgiliau rydym eu hangen yng Nghymru ar gael i bobl—ac i bobl ifanc yn benodol—mae angen i ni hefyd addysgu rhai o'r genhedlaeth hŷn, a'r rhieni, i sicrhau eu bod hwythau'n deall hynny hefyd. Oherwydd mae llawer o bobl, dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf, wedi llyncu'r neges, 'Addysg uwch, dyna'r ffordd ymlaen.' Ond mae yna gymysgedd ar gael mewn gwirionedd, ac mae'r ddau gymhwyster yr un mor haeddiannol â'i gilydd—galwedigaethol ac academaidd. Ac ni ddylid eu hystyried fel llwybrau ar wahân, ond fel llwybr sengl gyda chanlyniadau gwahanol ar y diwedd, efallai, ond canlyniadau cyfartal yn y pen draw. Felly, a wnewch chi hefyd ehangu'r trafodaethau rydych yn eu cael gyda phobl ifanc i gynnwys eu rhieni, i sicrhau bod rhieni'n deall pwysigrwydd y ddau lwybr, ansawdd y ddau llwybr, a'r canlyniadau y gall plant eu cyflawni yn eu gyrfaoedd hirdymor mewn gwirionedd?

13:40

Certainly. David Rees makes a very important point on the influences that children are put under when making choices about what courses to follow in school or in colleges. Often, children are listening to their peers—they're very interested in understanding what their peers are doing—but obviously parents and family are a huge influence in helping children make decisions. As part of the Gatsby pilot, which is currently being delivered in the Rhondda Cynon Taf local authority area at the moment, which is looking to really test and improve the system of information and advice, those schools are indeed working not just with pupils, but working with local employers and with parents to be able to ensure that children are exposed to that wide range of options that are available to them and recognising that taking a vocational course at 14 is not a barrier to higher levels of study. Indeed, taking a vocational course from 16 to 18 is a perfectly normal way in which you can then go on to attend a degree course or a higher level apprenticeship, if that's what you want to do.

Yn sicr. Mae David Rees yn gwneud pwynt pwysig iawn am y ffactorau sy'n dylanwadu ar blant wrth ddewis pa gyrsiau i'w hastudio yn yr ysgol neu mewn colegau. Yn aml, mae plant yn gwrando ar eu cyfoedion—mae ganddynt ddiddordeb mawr mewn deall beth y mae eu cyfoedion yn ei wneud—ond yn amlwg mae rhieni a theulu yn ddylanwad enfawr wrth helpu plant i wneud penderfyniadau. Fel rhan o gynllun peilot Gatsby, sy'n cael ei ddarparu yn ardal awdurdod lleol Rhondda Cynon Taf ar hyn o bryd, ac sy'n ceisio profi a gwella'r system wybodaeth a chyngor, mae'r ysgolion hynny yn gweithio nid yn unig gyda disgyblion ond gyda chyflogwyr lleol a chyda rhieni i allu sicrhau bod plant yn dod i gysylltiad â'r ystod eang o ddewisiadau sydd ar gael iddynt a chydnabod nad yw dilyn cwrs galwedigaethol yn 14 oed yn rhwystr i lefelau astudio uwch. Yn wir, mae dilyn cwrs galwedigaethol rhwng 16 a 18 oed yn ffordd gwbl arferol i chi fynd ymlaen wedyn i astudio cwrs gradd neu brentisiaeth lefel uwch, os mai dyna y dymunwch ei wneud.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau, a llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr yn gyntaf—Suzy Davies. 

Questions now from party spokespeople, and the Conservatives' spokesperson first—Suzy Davies.

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, last week, the finance Minister made a statement setting out her thoughts on the implications for Wales of the UK Government's 2019 spending round, and in that she reinforced the Government's view that budget spending decisions should be predicated on eight areas of priority. Why isn't school-age education one of those priority areas?

Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, yr wythnos diwethaf, gwnaeth y Gweinidog cyllid ddatganiad yn nodi ei barn am oblygiadau cylch gwariant 2019 Llywodraeth y DU i Gymru, ac yn hwnnw cadarnhaodd farn y Llywodraeth y dylid seilio penderfyniadau gwariant y gyllideb ar wyth maes blaenoriaeth. Pam nad yw addysg oedran ysgol yn un o'r meysydd blaenoriaeth hynny?

What the Minister was referring to are the cross-cutting priority areas that the Government has. One of those includes early years. Early years is part of our education system. My priority is ensuring schools have the best budget possible. The finance Minister has announced that, now that we have some details of our revenue budget, we will bring forward the budget for the whole of the Government in November.

Yr hyn y cyfeiriai'r Gweinidog ato yw'r meysydd blaenoriaeth trawsbynciol sydd gan y Llywodraeth. Mae un o'r rheini'n cynnwys y blynyddoedd cynnar. Mae'r blynyddoedd cynnar yn rhan o'n system addysg. Fy mlaenoriaeth yw sicrhau bod gan ysgolion y gyllideb orau sy'n bosibl. Mae'r Gweinidog cyllid wedi cyhoeddi, a ninnau bellach wedi cael rhywfaint o fanylion am ein cyllideb refeniw, y byddwn yn cyflwyno'r gyllideb ar gyfer y Llywodraeth gyfan yn gynt, ym mis Tachwedd.

Bearing in mind the huge changes that will be happening in schools, not least with the change in curriculum and the preparation for that, but also the long-standing and very acute complaints made by schools now about their direct funding, I have to say I was disappointed not to see that more explicitly in even the cross-cutting themes of Government, because, of course, if you get education wrong, it has an effect on every other area of spend as we go forward.

The UK Government has announced that 2.3 per cent above inflation boost to the Welsh block. There's also over £2 billion due to come to the Welsh Government from the UK schools budget—specifically schools, not education. That's over three years, and I accept the annual settlement is a restriction on planning. You've seen the CYPE report on funding for schools, which concluded that there is a very real and present danger on the sufficiency of school funding. I'm sure that the Minister for local government will be making the case for more money for her portfolio, more money for councils. Are you going to be leaving it to her to find the extra direct funding that schools need?

O gofio'r newidiadau enfawr a fydd yn digwydd mewn ysgolion, yn enwedig gyda'r newid yn y cwricwlwm a'r paratoadau ar gyfer hynny, ond hefyd y cwynion hirsefydlog a difrifol iawn a wneir gan ysgolion yn awr am eu cyllid uniongyrchol, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud fy mod wedi fy siomi nad wyf wedi gweld hynny'n fwy penodol yn themâu trawsbynciol y Llywodraeth, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, os na chewch addysg yn iawn, mae'n effeithio ar bob maes gwariant arall wrth inni symud ymlaen.

Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi cyhoeddi'r hwb o 2.3 y cant yn uwch na chwyddiant i floc Cymru. Disgwylir y bydd dros £2 biliwn yn dod i Lywodraeth Cymru o gyllideb ysgolion y DU hefyd—ysgolion yn benodol, nid addysg. Mae hynny dros dair blynedd, ac rwy'n derbyn bod y setliad blynyddol yn gyfyngiad ar gynllunio. Rydych wedi gweld adroddiad y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg ar gyllid i ysgolion, a ddaeth i'r casgliad fod perygl real ac uniongyrchol iawn o gyllid annigonol i ysgolion. Rwy'n siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog llywodraeth leol yn cyflwyno'r achos dros sicrhau mwy o arian i'w phortffolio, mwy o arian i gynghorau. A fyddwch yn gadael y gwaith o ddod o hyd i'r cyllid uniongyrchol ychwanegol sydd ei angen ar ysgolion iddi hi?

I'm grateful that the Member has acknowledged the difficulties that have been placed upon Welsh Government by the decision by her colleagues in Westminster only to give us an indicative budget for one year for education, whereas they have afforded the education system in England the courtesy of an indicative budget for three yeas, and that does indeed make things more difficult for us.

The Member will also be aware that I have welcomed very much the CYPE committee's work on education funding. I have accepted all the recommendations of that committee report, including a review into education funding in Wales. When that report is debated later on this term, I look forward to giving more details to Members on how we will respond fully to that. 

With regard to this year's budget, both I and the local government Minister are at one on the necessity and the priority in ensuring that both local authorities, which are the main source of funding for our schools, as well as education in totality are a priority.

Rwy'n ddiolchgar fod yr Aelod wedi cydnabod yr anawsterau sy'n wynebu Llywodraeth Cymru yn sgil penderfyniad ei chymheiriaid yn San Steffan i roi cyllideb ddangosol ar gyfer un flwyddyn yn unig i addysg, tra'u bod wedi bod mor garedig â rhoi cyllideb ddangosol tair blynedd i'r system addysg yn Lloegr, ac mae hynny, yn wir, yn gwneud pethau'n anos i ni.

Bydd yr Aelod hefyd yn ymwybodol fy mod wedi croesawu gwaith y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg ar gyllid addysg. Rwyf wedi derbyn holl argymhellion adroddiad y pwyllgor hwnnw, gan gynnwys adolygiad o gyllid addysg yng Nghymru. Pan drafodir yr adroddiad hwnnw yn ddiweddarach y tymor hwn, edrychaf ymlaen at roi rhagor o fanylion i'r Aelodau ynglŷn â sut y byddwn yn ymateb yn llawn i hynny.

O ran y gyllideb eleni, mae'r Gweinidog llywodraeth leol a minnau'n cytuno bod yn rhaid sicrhau bod awdurdodau lleol, sef prif ffynhonnell cyllid ein hysgolion, yn ogystal â'r maes addysg yn ei gyfanrwydd, yn cael blaenoriaeth.

I'm grateful for that response, Minister, because, as we know, the concern that actually the CYPE committee had was, while we recognised that the local authorities are responsible for the majority of direct funding, that is not protected in any way. It'll be very interesting, when you produce the results of your review, and in fact respond to the debate, whether you're going to be in a position to say how any direct funding can be protected within a hopefully enhanced local authority budget.

I just want to ask you something different now, because this weekend we saw media coverage of concerns over the content of sex education lessons to very young children in parts of England. I know that making religious and sex education a compulsory part of the new curriculum is contentious already, but I have to say even I'm a little bit squeamish about the potential of drawing masturbation to the attention of six-year-olds, especially when we are also asking them to understand and speak up about inappropriate touching by adults. Now, I've no idea how accurate these reports are, but I think families and teachers across the nation would appreciate a statement from you to reassure them what you think age-appropriate sex education will look like in Wales. 

Rwy'n ddiolchgar am yr ymateb hwnnw, Weinidog, oherwydd er ein bod yn cydnabod mai'r awdurdodau lleol sy'n gyfrifol am y rhan fwyaf o'r cyllid uniongyrchol, pryder y pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg, fel y gwyddom, yw nad yw'r cyllid hwnnw wedi'i ddiogelu mewn unrhyw ffordd. Pan fyddwch yn cynhyrchu canlyniadau eich adolygiad, ac yn ymateb i'r ddadl mewn gwirionedd, bydd yn ddiddorol iawn gweld a fyddwch mewn sefyllfa i ddweud sut y gellir diogelu unrhyw gyllid uniongyrchol o fewn cyllideb well, gobeithio, i awdurdodau lleol.

Rwyf am ofyn rhywbeth gwahanol i chi yn awr, oherwydd y penwythnos hwn gwelsom sylw yn y cyfryngau i bryderon ynghylch cynnwys gwersi addysg rhyw i blant ifanc iawn mewn rhannau o Loegr. Gwn fod gwneud addysg grefyddol ac addysg rhyw yn rhan orfodol o'r cwricwlwm newydd yn benderfyniad dadleuol eisoes, ond mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud fy mod i, hyd yn oed, yn teimlo ychydig yn anghyfforddus am y potensial o dynnu sylw plant chwech oed at fastyrbio, yn enwedig pan fyddwn ni hefyd yn gofyn iddynt ddeall a siarad yn agored am unrhyw gyffwrdd amhriodol gan oedolion. Nawr, nid oes syniad gennyf pa mor gywir yw'r adroddiadau hyn, ond rwy'n credu y byddai teuluoedd ac athrawon ledled y wlad yn gwerthfawrogi datganiad gennych chi i dawelu eu meddyliau am yr hyn y credwch chi y dylai addysg rhyw sy'n addas i'r oedran ei gynnwys yng Nghymru.

13:45

The Member is absolutely right; if we are to achieve the goals of a purpose-led curriculum, and if we are to ensure that every child leaving our schools is a happy and healthy child, then age and developmentally appropriate RSE I believe is an important way in which we will achieve the purposes of our curriculum. Clearly, this is a sensitive subject, and the Member is right to say it is also an issue around child protection also. But I want to assure her and all Members here, and indeed the wider community, that the content of RSE will be developed very sensitively and carefully, with the best advice from professionals and those who have advised the Government to date on the necessity of ensuring that RSE is available to children in Wales.  

Mae'r Aelod yn llygad ei lle; os ydym am gyflawni nodau cwricwlwm a arweinir gan ddiben, ac os ydym am sicrhau bod pob plentyn sy'n gadael ein hysgolion yn hapus ac yn iach, yna credaf fod addysg rhyw a pherthnasoedd sy'n addas i oedran a datblygiad yn ffordd bwysig o gyflawni dibenion ein cwricwlwm. Yn amlwg, mae hwn yn bwnc sensitif, ac mae'r Aelod yn iawn i ddweud bod problem yn codi mewn perthynas ag amddiffyn plant hefyd. Ond rwyf am ei sicrhau hi a phob Aelod yma, a'r gymuned ehangach yn wir, y bydd cynnwys addysg rhyw a pherthnasoedd yn cael ei ddatblygu mewn modd sensitif a gofalus iawn, gyda'r cyngor gorau gan weithwyr proffesiynol a'r rhai sydd wedi cynghori'r Llywodraeth hyd yn hyn ar yr angen i sicrhau bod addysg rhyw a pherthnasoedd ar gael i blant yng Nghymru.

Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Siân Gwenllian.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Siân Gwenllian.

Diolch, Lywydd. Mae'r Blaid Lafur wedi dweud y byddan nhw'n cael gwared ar ysgolion preifat, gan ailddosbarthu eu heiddo i'r wladwriaeth. Fe basiwyd cynnig yn eu cynhadledd i integreiddio ysgolion preifat i sector y wladwriaeth. O gofio mai dim ond 2.2 y cant o blant Cymru sy'n cael eu dysgu mewn ysgolion preifat, ydych chi'n cytuno mai mater gweddol hawdd byddai symud yn syth i gael gwared ar ysgolion preifat yng Nghymru?

Thank you, Llywydd. The Labour Party has said that they will abolish private schools, redistributing their properties to the state. A motion was passed in their conference to integrate private schools into the state sector. Now, given that only 2.2 per cent of Welsh children are educated in private schools, do you agree that it would be a relatively simple matter to move immediately to scrapping private schools in Wales?

I have no plans to scrap private schools in Wales. 

Nid oes gennyf unrhyw gynlluniau i gael gwared ar ysgolion preifat yng Nghymru.

Iawn. Wel, fydd hi'n ddiddorol iawn clywed y drafodaeth—neu, mi fyddai'n ddiddorol petawn ni'n cael clywed y drafodaeth yn y Cabinet efo'ch cyd-Aelodau Llafur ynghylch hynny, lle mae yna arweiniad clir yn dod gan eu cynhadledd nhw. Felly, diddorol clywed eich ymateb chi yn fanna.

Mi fyddai Llafur hefyd yn ymgyrchu i ddileu statws elusennol oddi ar ysgolion preifat, a dwi'n nodi bod ymgynghoriad yn mynd rhagddo gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar hyn a dwi'n edrych ymlaen at weld ysgolion preifat yn talu trethi. Mae hyn, wrth gwrs, yn codi cwestiynau am Ysgol Gymraeg Llundain, a dwi'n edrych ymlaen at weld sut rydych chi'n bwriadu cynnal y gallu i deuluoedd Cymraeg gael addysg cyfrwng-Cymraeg yn y brifddinas.

Troi at fater arall, mae Suzy Davies wedi cyfeirio'n rhannol at hyn, ond, yn y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg yr wythnos diwethaf, fe sonioch chi fod yna lobi gryf, neu o leiaf ymateb cryf, yn erbyn cynnwys addysg grefyddol ac addysg cyd-berthynas a rhywioldeb fel rhan statudol o'r cwricwlwm newydd, a hynny heb hawl gan rieni i dynnu eu plant yn ôl o'r gwersi hynny. Dwi yn mawr obeithio nad ydych chi yn meddwl ildio i'r pwysau yma a'ch bod chi'n cytuno efo fi bod rhain yn ddau faes hollbwysig i'w cadw'n faterion statudol yn y cwricwlwm newydd wrth inni anelu at greu dinasyddion iach a hyderus, a chymdeithas sy'n parchu amrywiaeth.

Okay. Well, it’ll be very interesting to hear the debate, or it would be very interesting if we were able to hear the discussion in Cabinet with your fellow Labour members on that issue, where there has been clear guidance provided by their conference. So, it was interesting to hear your response there.

Labour too would campaign to abolish the charitable status of private schools, and I note that a consultation is ongoing with the Welsh Government on this issue and I look forward to seeing private schools paying tax. And this, of course, raises questions about Ysgol Gymraeg Llundain, the Welsh school in London. I look forward to seeing how you intend to allow Welsh-speaking parents to continue to receive Welsh-medium education in London.

Suzy Davies referred to this issue, which is another issue altogether, but, in the Children, Young People and Education Committee last week, you mentioned that there was a strong lobby, or at least a strong response, against including religious education and RSE as a statutory part of the new curriculum without the right for parents to withdraw their children from those lessons. I do very much hope that you are not considering giving in to this pressure and that you agree with me that these are two crucially important areas and should be retained as statutory elements of the new curriculum as we aim towards creating healthy, confident citizens and a society that respects diversity.

Well, luckily for us, Presiding Officer, education is devolved and we don't need a party conference in Brighton or, indeed, Bournemouth to tell us how to run our education system. I see no problems with the Welsh Government's commitment to continue to support Welsh-medium education in London. We know a number of those families return to Wales and place their children in Welsh-medium schools here, and I have no plans to change the support for that. And I can assure the Member that I have no plans to change my mind with regard to the statutory nature of both religious education or RSE in our curriculum reforms. 

Wel, yn ffodus i ni, Lywydd, mae addysg wedi'i datganoli ac nid oes angen cynhadledd plaid yn Brighton na Bournemouth yn wir i ddweud wrthym sut i weithredu ein system addysg. Nid wyf yn gweld unrhyw broblemau gydag ymrwymiad Llywodraeth Cymru i barhau i gefnogi addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg yn Llundain. Gwyddom fod nifer o'r teuluoedd hynny'n dychwelyd i Gymru ac yn gosod eu plant mewn ysgolion cyfrwng Cymraeg yma, ac nid oes gennyf gynlluniau i newid y gefnogaeth i hynny. A gallaf sicrhau'r Aelod nad oes gennyf unrhyw gynlluniau i newid fy meddwl mewn perthynas â natur statudol addysg grefyddol neu addysg rhyw a pherthnasoedd yn ein diwygiadau i'r cwricwlwm.

Da iawn. Dwi'n falch iawn o glywed yr ateb olaf yna, beth bynnag. 

Troi at fater arall, sef polisïau teithio i'r ysgol, mewn ymateb i bwyntiau a godwyd gan Llyr Gruffydd yr wythnos diwethaf, fe ddywedodd Gweinidog y Gymraeg a Chysylltiadau Rhyngwladol fod yna—a dwi'n dyfynnu—refresh yn mynd i fod i Fesur Teithio gan Ddysgwyr (Cymru) 2008 a gallwn ddisgwyl hynny yn yr hydref. Mae yna esiamplau o'r angen i greu newid yn codi ar draws Cymru, yn enwedig o safbwynt y disgyblion mewn ysgolion cyfrwng Cymraeg. Yn Fflint, er enghraifft, mae hi'n siomedig bod y cabinet yn fanno yn mynd i fod yn codi tâl ar fyfyrwyr chweched dosbarth ar gyfer eu trafnidiaeth i'r ysgol, sy'n benodol yn effeithio ar fyfyrwyr chweched dosbarth Ysgol Maes Garmon, ac mae yna bosibilrwydd y bydd rhieni yn wynebu cynnydd o 400 y cant yn y gost o anfon plant i chweched dosbarth cyfrwng Cymraeg yng Nghastell-nedd Port Talbot.

Mae'r materion yma mewn perig o danseilio unrhyw fuddsoddiad mewn addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg ac ymdrechion i gyrraedd at y filiwn o siaradwyr. Felly, a fedrwch chi ymhelaethu ar yr hyn a ddywedodd Gweinidog y Gymraeg am y bwriad yma i edrych ar bolisïau teithio i'r ysgol? Pryd a sut fydd unrhyw adolygiad yn digwydd? A oes yna ffordd i bobl fedru rhoi eu barn drwodd yn ystod yr adolygiad yma, ac ai'r nod, mewn gwirionedd, ydy cryfhau hygyrchedd ein disgyblion at addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg?

Excellent. I’m extremely pleased to hear that last answer, certainly.

Turning to another issue, which is transportation-to-school policy, in response to points raised by Llyr Gruffydd last week, the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language stated that there would be a refresh of the Learner Travel (Wales) Measure 2008, and that we can expect that in the autumn. There are examples of the need to create change arising across Wales, particularly in terms of pupils in Welsh-medium education. In Flint, for example, it is disappointing that the cabinet there is going to be charging sixth-form students for their transportation to school, which will particularly impact pupils in the sixth form at Ysgol Maes Garmon, and there's a possibility that parents will face an increase of 400 per cent in the cost of sending pupils to Welsh-medium sixth-form provision in Neath Port Talbot.

These issues are at risk of undermining any investment in Welsh-medium education and attempts to reach a million Welsh speakers. So, can you expand on what the Welsh language Minister said on this intention to refresh learner travel policy? When and how will any review happen? Can people express their views during this review, and is the aim, ultimately, to strengthen the access of our pupils to Welsh-medium education?

13:50

The Member will be aware that school transport, somewhat curiously, does not fall under my portfolio, but falls under the portfolio of my colleague Ken Skates. But, I, Ken Skates, Eluned Morgan and Julie James are working collectively on a policy solution to the situation that we find ourselves in. Moves in Flintshire and Neath Port Talbot have been a cause of concern to me. I understand that the policy in Neath Port Talbot has been put on hold at the moment, and that is very welcome.

In the case of post-16 transport, it is an undeniable situation that to access Welsh-medium post-16 provision children are having to travel significant distances. We should be ensuring that there is a transport policy that allows them to pursue their education continuum through the medium of Welsh, and should not be putting barriers in their way in their ability to do that, which is why the Government is committed to looking at a policy solution to this problem.

Bydd yr Aelod yn ymwybodol nad yw cludiant i'r ysgol, yn rhyfedd braidd, yn rhan o fy mhortffolio, mae'n rhan o bortffolio fy nghyd-Aelod, Ken Skates. Ond mae Ken Skates, Eluned Morgan, Julie James a minnau'n gweithio ar y cyd ar ateb polisi i'r sefyllfa rydym ynddi. Mae newidiadau yn Sir y Fflint a Chastell-nedd Port Talbot wedi bod yn peri pryder i mi. Deallaf fod y polisi yng Nghastell-nedd Port Talbot wedi'i ohirio ar hyn o bryd, ac mae hynny i'w groesawu'n fawr.

Yn achos trafnidiaeth ôl-16, ni ellir gwadu'r ffaith bod plant yn gorfod teithio pellteroedd sylweddol i gael mynediad at ddarpariaeth ôl-16 cyfrwng Cymraeg. Dylem sicrhau polisi trafnidiaeth sy'n caniatáu iddynt ddilyn eu continwwm addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, ac ni ddylem osod rhwystrau yn ffordd eu gallu i wneud hynny, a dyna pam fod y Llywodraeth wedi ymrwymo i edrych ar ateb polisi i'r broblem hon.

Gwisgoedd Ysgol
School Uniforms

3. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am fforddiadwyedd gwisgoedd ysgol yng Nghymru? OAQ54392

3. Will the Minister make a statement on the affordability of school uniforms in Wales? OAQ54392

Thank you, Jayne. To support schools in making effective decisions on their school uniform policies, I have developed new statutory guidance for schools and governing bodies on school uniform and appearance policies. This guidance aims to encourage a more consistent approach across all schools in Wales to the affordability of school uniforms.

Diolch, Jayne. Er mwyn cefnogi ysgolion i wneud penderfyniadau effeithiol ynglŷn â'u polisïau gwisg ysgol, rwyf wedi datblygu canllawiau statudol newydd ar gyfer ysgolion a chyrff llywodraethu ar bolisïau gwisg ysgol ac edrychiad disgyblion. Nod y canllawiau hyn yw annog dull gweithredu mwy cyson ar draws pob ysgol yng Nghymru er mwyn sicrhau bod gwisgoedd ysgol yn fforddiadwy.

Thank you for your answer, Minister. The affordability of school uniforms is a big issue for many parents across Wales, and I know the Welsh Government's pupil development grant supports families on low incomes to buy new school uniforms. I'm sure you've seen some of the fantastic examples of parents in parts of Wales creating successful donation systems, enabling parents to donate and recycle old school uniforms to other parents to buy at a fraction of the price. Not only does this help families, but it helps the environment as well, stopping those from going to landfill. Will the Minister commend this work? How will you ensure that that consistent practice that you mentioned will get across to all local authorities in Wales?

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Mae fforddiadwyedd gwisgoedd ysgol yn fater o bwys mawr i lawer o rieni ledled Cymru, ac rwy'n gwybod bod grant datblygu disgyblion Llywodraeth Cymru yn cynorthwyo teuluoedd ar incwm isel i brynu gwisgoedd ysgol newydd. Rwy'n siŵr eich bod wedi gweld rhai o'r enghreifftiau gwych o rieni mewn rhannau o Gymru yn creu systemau rhoddion llwyddiannus, gan alluogi rhieni i ailgylchu hen wisgoedd ysgol a'u gwerthu i rieni eraill am ran fach o'r pris. Nid yn unig y mae hyn yn helpu teuluoedd, ond mae'n helpu'r amgylchedd hefyd, drwy arbed y dillad rhag mynd i safleoedd tirlenwi. A wnaiff y Gweinidog gymeradwyo'r gwaith hwn? Sut y byddwch yn sicrhau y bydd yr arferion cyson a grybwylloch yn cael eu lledaenu i bob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru?

Thank you, Jayne, for that. You're right—this is a real issue for many parents across Wales. That's why we have increased the money available to support parents via PDG access, providing support to an additional 14,000 learners at the start of this academic year. But it's also correct to say—and many of us who are parents will be well aware how quickly children grow, and sometimes their items of clothing are perfectly serviceable, and it's a real shame that other people cannot enjoy the benefit of using those items.

Therefore, in our statutory guidance, we draw schools' and governing bodies' attention to the fact that there are many very successful second-hand school uniform shops or swapping arrangements, which, as you say, is good for the purse of individual parents, but it is also really important for our environment. As part of the statutory guidance, we draw schools' attention to that good practice and would encourage many more of them to undertake that facility within their school.

Diolch am hynny, Jayne. Rydych yn iawn—mae hon yn broblem go iawn i lawer o rieni ledled Cymru. Dyna pam ein bod wedi cynyddu'r arian sydd ar gael i gefnogi rhieni drwy'r grant datblygu disgyblion, gan roi cymorth i 14,000 o ddysgwyr ychwanegol ar ddechrau'r flwyddyn academaidd hon. Ond mae hefyd yn gywir i ddweud—a bydd llawer ohonom sy'n rhieni yn gwybod yn iawn pa mor gyflym y mae plant yn tyfu, ac weithiau nid oes dim o'i le ar y dillad, ac mae'n drueni mawr na all pobl eraill fwynhau'r fantais o ddefnyddio'r dillad hynny.

Felly, yn ein canllawiau statudol, rydym yn tynnu sylw ysgolion a chyrff llywodraethu at y ffaith bod yna lawer o siopau dillad ysgol ail-law neu drefniadau cyfnewid dillad llwyddiannus iawn yn bodoli, mentrau sydd, fel y dywedwch, yn dda i sefyllfa ariannol rhieni unigol, ond mae hefyd yn wirioneddol bwysig i'n hamgylchedd. Fel rhan o'r canllawiau statudol, rydym yn tynnu sylw ysgolion at yr arferion da hynny ac yn annog llawer mwy ohonynt i wneud hynny yn eu hysgolion.

13:55

I welcome the publication of the statutory guidance that came into force at the beginning of the month, and it makes the school uniform more affordable, accessible and gender-neutral. While there's more flexibility within the system, those in receipt of grants can be compelled to just go to one supplier; that is the case with one school within my constituency in the Rhondda. I also know that some schools do not give permission for the logo to be embroidered onto generic garments, which is often the more economic option, and something that is particularly important for families on low incomes. So, does your statutory guidance need re-examining to allow more flexibility for parents, whether they're in receipt of a grant or not? 

Rwy'n croesawu cyhoeddiad y canllawiau statudol a ddaeth i rym ar ddechrau'r mis, ac mae'n gwneud y wisg ysgol yn fwy fforddiadwy, yn fwy hygyrch ac yn niwtral o ran rhywedd. Er bod mwy o hyblygrwydd o fewn y system, gellir gorfodi'r rhai sy'n cael grantiau i fynd at un cyflenwr yn unig; mae hynny'n wir yn achos un ysgol yn fy etholaeth yn y Rhondda. Gwn hefyd nad yw rhai ysgolion yn rhoi caniatâd i'r logo gael ei frodio ar ddillad generig, sef yr opsiwn mwyaf economaidd yn aml, a rhywbeth sy'n arbennig o bwysig i deuluoedd ar incwm isel. Felly, a oes angen ailedrych ar eich canllawiau statudol er mwyn rhoi mwy o hyblygrwydd i rieni, p'un a ydynt yn cael grant ai peidio?

The statutory guidance that has come into force at the beginning of this academic year applies to uniform across the piece, regardless of whether you're in receipt of a grant for your uniform. Indeed, it does actually draw schools' attention to the fact that they should be able to offer a range of options that allows parents to make individual choices. And with regard to embroidered or branded items, it asks schools to really question whether that is needed—so do you need a branded polo short, or is a plain polo shirt in school colours appropriate? Again, asking governing bodies to question whether the ability to embroider on or to buy a patch that can be sewn on, rather than directing people to an individual store—those should be considerations that governing bodies are making when setting their uniform policy, and to think about the impact that that does have on individual families. There are often cheaper ways in which families can buy a uniform if they are given that flexibility, and that's what the statutory guidance urges governing bodies to do: to provide that flexibility and not to have some of these restrictive options that add cost to families. 

Mae'r canllawiau statudol a ddaeth i rym ar ddechrau'r flwyddyn academaidd hon yn berthnasol i wisgoedd ysgol yn gyffredinol, p'un a ydych yn cael grant ar gyfer eich gwisg ysgol ai peidio. Yn wir, mae'n tynnu sylw ysgolion at y ffaith y dylent fod yn gallu cynnig amrywiaeth o opsiynau sy'n caniatáu i rieni wneud dewisiadau unigol. Ac o ran eitemau wedi'u brodio neu eu brandio, mae'n gofyn i ysgolion gwestiynu a oes angen hynny go iawn—felly a oes angen i chi gael crys polo wedi'i frandio, neu a yw crys polo plaen yn lliwiau'r ysgol yn briodol? Unwaith eto, mae gofyn i gyrff llywodraethu gwestiynu a yw'r gallu i frodio neu i brynu clwt y gellir ei wnïo ar ddilledyn, yn hytrach na chyfeirio pobl at siop unigol—dylai'r rheini fod yn bethau y mae cyrff llywodraethu yn eu hystyried wrth greu eu polisi gwisg ysgol, yn ogystal â meddwl am yr effaith a gaiff ar deuluoedd unigol. Yn aml, mae ffyrdd rhatach i deuluoedd brynu gwisg ysgol os rhoddir yr hyblygrwydd hwnnw iddynt, a dyna beth y mae'r canllawiau statudol yn annog cyrff llywodraethu i'w wneud: darparu'r hyblygrwydd hwnnw yn hytrach na rhai o'r opsiynau cyfyngol hyn sy'n ychwanegu at y gost i deuluoedd.

Minister, further to Leanne Wood's question, I fully support you in your laudable aim of keeping the cost of school uniform down. However, I note your guidance allows schools to decide whether their logos are strictly necessary. I believe that logos express the mission and the spirit of a school, and are a source of pride for students, parents and staff, and create a sense of community among the children of those schools. In view of this, would you join me in encouraging as many schools as possible to retain their logos as a symbol of their identity? Thank you. 

Weinidog, i ategu gwestiwn Leanne Wood, rwy'n eich cefnogi'n llwyr yn eich nod clodwiw o gadw cost gwisgoedd ysgol i lawr. Fodd bynnag, sylwaf fod eich canllawiau'n caniatáu i ysgolion benderfynu a yw eu logos yn gwbl angenrheidiol. Credaf fod logos yn mynegi cenhadaeth ac ysbryd ysgol, ac yn destun balchder i ddisgyblion, rhieni a staff, ac yn creu ymdeimlad o gymuned ymhlith plant yr ysgolion hynny. O gofio hyn, a fyddech yn ymuno â mi i annog cynifer o ysgolion â phosibl i gadw eu logos fel symbol o'u hunaniaeth? Diolch.

As a Minister, it is not my role to dictate to individual schools what they can and cannot have on their uniform. What is my role as the Minister is to publish the statutory guidance, which we have done, and to impress upon school governors the issue of thinking about affordability when designing their school and appearance policy. Indeed, we do ask schools to question whether it is appropriate or necessary for every single item of clothing to have a logo on. I think back to my own time when my children were in primary school, when I used to send them in a generic white polo shirt and they had a logo on their sweatshirt. I did not see it was necessary to have a logo on both of those items. What we're saying to schools is, 'Think—before you make these rules, think about the issue of affordability for all of your parents'. I agree that uniform can bring a sense of identity, and can bring many, many benefits to schools, but, when designing a uniform policy, be aware of the added financial burdens you may be placing on those parents, and what that can mean to the well-being of children in their schools who may be really concerned about whether their parents can afford all the kit and the uniform that is being asked of them. Because we know, if children's well-being is detrimentally affected, that their learning is detrimentally affected.     

Fel Gweinidog, nid fy rôl i yw dweud wrth ysgolion unigol beth y gallant ei gael a'r hyn na allant ei gael ar eu gwisg ysgol. Fy rôl i fel Gweinidog yw cyhoeddi'r canllawiau statudol, ac rydym wedi gwneud hynny, ac annog llywodraethwyr ysgolion i feddwl am fforddiadwyedd wrth gynllunio'u polisi gwisg ysgol ac edrychiad disgyblion. Yn wir, rydym yn gofyn i ysgolion gwestiynu a yw'n briodol neu'n angenrheidiol i bob dilledyn gael logo arno. Rwy'n cofio pan oedd fy mhlant yn yr ysgol gynradd, pan oeddwn yn arfer eu hanfon i'r ysgol mewn crys polo gwyn generig ac roedd ganddynt logo ar eu crys chwys. Nid oeddwn yn credu bod angen cael logo ar y ddau ddilledyn. Yr hyn a ddywedwn wrth ysgolion yw, 'Meddyliwch—cyn i chi wneud y rheolau hyn, meddyliwch am fforddiadwyedd i'ch holl rieni'. Rwy'n cytuno bod gwisgoedd ysgol yn gallu rhoi ymdeimlad o hunaniaeth, a'u bod yn gallu cynnig llawer o fanteision i ysgolion, ond wrth lunio polisi gwisg ysgol, byddwch yn ymwybodol o'r beichiau ariannol ychwanegol y gallech fod yn eu gosod ar y rhieni hynny, a beth y gall hynny ei olygu i lesiant plant yn eu hysgolion a allai fod yn wirioneddol bryderus ynglŷn â gallu eu rhieni i fforddio'r cit cyfan a'r wisg y mae disgwyl iddynt eu prynu. Oherwydd, os yw llesiant plant yn cael ei niweidio, gwyddom fod hynny'n cael effaith niweidiol ar eu dysgu.

Ysgolion Gwledig
Rural Schools

4. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am bolisi ysgolion gwledig Llywodraeth Cymru? OAQ54375

4. Will the Minister provide an update on the Welsh Government's rural schools policy? OAQ54375

Our rural education plan sets out our approach to rural schools, pulling together actions from our national mission. This includes our small and rural schools grant, which is benefiting over 400 schools, and our e-sgol pilot project, which is being rolled out to other local authorities and schools across Wales. 

Mae ein cynllun addysg wledig yn nodi ein hymagwedd tuag at ysgolion gwledig, gan gyfuno gweithredoedd o genhadaeth ein cenedl. Mae hyn yn cynnwys ein grant ysgolion bach a gwledig, sydd o fudd i dros 400 o ysgolion, a'n prosiect peilot e-sgol, sy'n cael ei gyflwyno i awdurdodau lleol ac ysgolion eraill ledled Cymru.

Thank you for that answer. I've been contacted by concerned parents in Llandrillo, Corwen whose village school, Ysgol Gynradd Llandrillo, was amalgamated with Cynwyd school. My question today is about the situation that arises when the new schools created as a result of amalgamation and rationalisation are no longer able to cope with rising demand when they are victims of their own success. This is tearing two rural villages apart. In Llandrillo, the old school building stands empty, and I'm told that the new school is oversubscribed and local children are not getting the Welsh-medium education they require. What steps are you able to take to address this situation?

Diolch i chi am yr ateb hwnnw. Mae rhieni pryderus yn Llandrillo, Corwen wedi cysylltu â mi i ddweud bod ysgol y pentref, Ysgol Gynradd Llandrillo, wedi cael ei huno ag ysgol Cynwyd. Mae fy nghwestiwn heddiw'n ymwneud â'r sefyllfa sy'n codi pan nad yw'r ysgolion newydd a grëir o ganlyniad i uno a rhesymoli'n gallu parhau i ymdopi â'r galw cynyddol pan fyddant yn dioddef o ganlyniad i'w llwyddiant eu hunain. Mae hyn yn creu rhwyg mewn dau bentref gwledig. Yn Llandrillo, mae adeilad yr hen ysgol yn wag, ac rwy'n deall bod gormod o alw am leoedd yn yr ysgol newydd ac nad yw plant lleol yn cael yr addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg sydd ei hangen arnynt. Pa gamau y gallwch eu cymryd i fynd i'r afael â'r sefyllfa hon?

14:00

Well, the planning for provision of school places is not a matter for Welsh Government; it is a matter for the local education authority, and in the first instance, the Member should address her concerns to the local authority at that place. With regard to Welsh medium, it's very concerning to think that parents who want that opportunity for their children are being denied that opportunity. That is a huge source of concern to me. Parents should be able to exercise their right to a Welsh-medium education for their children if they desire. If the Member does not receive any joy in her communications with the local authority, then I'll be very happy to have correspondence from her in this regard.

Wel, nid mater i Lywodraeth Cymru yw cynllunio darpariaeth lleoedd mewn ysgolion; mater i'r awdurdod addysg lleol ydyw, a dylai'r Aelod rannu ei phryderon â'r awdurdod lleol hwnnw yn gyntaf. O ran addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg, mae meddwl bod rhieni sydd eisiau'r cyfle hwnnw i'w plant yn cael eu hamddifadu o'r cyfle yn peri pryder mawr i mi. Mae hwnnw'n destun pryder mawr i mi. Dylai rhieni allu arfer eu hawl i addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg i'w plant os ydynt yn dymuno gwneud hynny. Os nad yw'r Aelod yn cael unrhyw lwc wrth gyfathrebu â'r awdurdod lleol, byddaf yn hapus iawn i dderbyn gohebiaeth ganddi ar y mater.

Minister, with the school reorganisation code, as revised, when business cases come before the Welsh Government to be signed off, what weight does the Minister place on the policy imperatives that Welsh Government have put in place at that stage of the process? Or is it merely that you're looking at the financials around such an application? I'd be grateful to understand exactly how big a policy initiative is weighed when the business case is signed off, finally, by Welsh Government for new school developments.

Weinidog, gyda'r cod ad-drefnu ysgolion, fel y'i diwygiwyd, pan fo achosion busnes yn dod gerbron Llywodraeth Cymru i'w cymeradwyo, pa bwyslais y mae'r Gweinidog yn ei roi ar y gorchmynion polisi y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'u rhoi ar waith ar y cam hwnnw yn y broses? Neu ai'r unig beth a wnewch yw edrych ar yr ystyriaethau ariannol mewn perthynas â chais o'r fath? Buaswn yn hoffi deall i ba raddau'n union y caiff menter bolisi ei phwyso a'i mesur pan gaiff yr achos busnes ei gymeradwyo, yn y pen draw, gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer datblygiadau ysgol newydd.

Well, there are very clear criteria when deciding to grant twenty-first century schools and colleges funding to any local authority for their project. That's done by an independent board that makes recommendations to the Minister. The primary purpose of the twenty-first century schools and colleges fund is to ensure as many children as possible are receiving their education in buildings that are fit for purpose and are able to deliver our new curriculum to great effect, and to address what is, in some cases, in some schools, the very poor state of buildings that children and teachers are currently working in. But it is not correct to say that you have to close a school to have access to that fund. There are many, many examples across Wales where like-for-like provision has been put in place. But if the Member has a particular issue, I'm sure he can raise that when he's in one of his Vale of Glamorgan county council meetings.

Wel, ceir meini prawf clir iawn wrth benderfynu rhoi cyllid ysgolion a cholegau'r unfed ganrif ar hugain i unrhyw awdurdod lleol ar gyfer eu prosiect. Gwneir hynny gan fwrdd annibynnol sy'n gwneud argymhellion i'r Gweinidog. Prif ddiben cronfa ysgolion a cholegau'r unfed ganrif ar hugain yw sicrhau bod cymaint o blant â phosibl yn cael eu haddysg mewn adeiladau sy'n addas i'r diben ac sy'n gallu cyflwyno ein cwricwlwm newydd yn effeithiol iawn, a mynd i'r afael â chyflwr gwael iawn yr adeiladau y mae'r plant a'r athrawon yn gweithio ynddynt ar hyn o bryd mewn rhai achosion, mewn rhai ysgolion. Ond nid yw'n gywir dweud bod yn rhaid i chi gau ysgol er mwyn cael mynediad at y gronfa honno. Mae llawer iawn o enghreifftiau ledled Cymru lle y cafodd darpariaethau tebyg am debyg eu rhoi ar waith. Ond os oes gan yr Aelod broblem benodol, rwy'n siŵr y bydd yn gallu ei chrybwyll yn un o'i gyfarfodydd cyngor sir Bro Morgannwg.

Consortia Gwella Ysgolion
School Improvement Consortia

5. Pa drafodaethau diweddar y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u cael gyda chonsortia gwella ysgolion Cymru? OAQ54367

5. What recent discussions has the Minister had with the Welsh school improvement consortia? OAQ54367

Thank you, Mr Hamilton, for your question. I meet with the regional education consortia annually as part of regular evaluation and improvement sessions. I am due to meet them again this autumn. My director of education meets regularly with each region and provides feedback. I also meet individually with regions to discuss matters of importance when they arise.

Diolch am eich cwestiwn, Mr Hamilton. Rwy'n cyfarfod â'r consortia addysg rhanbarthol bob blwyddyn fel rhan o sesiynau gwerthuso a gwella rheolaidd. Rwy'n disgwyl cyfarfod â hwy eto yr hydref hwn. Mae fy nghyfarwyddwr addysg yn cyfarfod yn rheolaidd â phob rhanbarth ac yn rhoi adborth iddynt. Rwyf hefyd yn cyfarfod â'r rhanbarthau'n unigol i drafod materion o bwys pan fyddant yn codi.

I'm grateful to the Minister for that response. She'll recall that a short time ago, the leader of Neath Port Talbot council described the improvement consortium in his area in less than glowing terms. He said that it was set up to improve schools but the opposite had happened: the schools that needed improving haven't, and those schools that were doing well have dipped in improvement. The Association of School and College Leaders said the consortia are duplicating funding and functions provided by the LEAs, and they put a figure of £450 million on the cost of this. When the Minister appeared before the Children, Young People and Education Committee a few months ago, she said that getting money to the school front line is a priority, and if sufficient money isn't getting there, is it not time for this Assembly to do something about it? If we're not getting money to the schools and pupils, isn't it time for this Assembly-created quango of management, consultancy, apparatchiks and buzzwords to be scrapped so that the money can then go directly to local councils who are wholly elected and perhaps in a rather better position to estimate the school community needs in their area?

Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Gweinidog am yr ateb hwnnw. Fe fydd yn cofio nad oedd arweinydd cyngor Castell-nedd Port Talbot yn canmol y consortiwm gwella yn ei ardal i'r cymylau beth amser yn ôl. Dywedodd iddo gael ei sefydlu i wella ysgolion ond bod y gwrthwyneb wedi digwydd: nid yw'r ysgolion yr oedd angen eu gwella wedi gwella, ac mae'r ysgolion a oedd yn gwneud yn dda wedi gwaethygu. Dywedodd y Gymdeithas Arweinwyr Ysgolion a Cholegau fod y consortia'n dyblygu cyllid a swyddogaethau a ddarperir gan yr awdurdodau addysg lleol, ac maent wedi dweud bod hyn yn costio £450 miliwn. Pan ymddangosodd y Gweinidog gerbron y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg rai misoedd yn ôl, dywedodd fod sicrhau arian i reng flaen yr ysgol yn flaenoriaeth, ac os nad oes digon o arian yn cyrraedd yno, onid yw'n bryd i'r Cynulliad wneud rhywbeth yn ei gylch? Os nad yw'r arian yn cyrraedd yr ysgolion a'r disgyblion, onid yw'n bryd cael gwared ar y cwango hwn o reolwyr, ymgynghorwyr, aparatshiciaid a jargon a grëwyd gan y Cynulliad fel y gall yr arian fynd yn uniongyrchol i gynghorau lleol sydd wedi'u hethol yn gyfan gwbl ac sydd mewn sefyllfa well efallai i amcangyfrif anghenion y cymunedau ysgol yn eu hardaloedd?

Presiding Officer, it's disappointing that Mr Hamilton doesn't seem to understand the governance arrangements of regional consortia. The consortia work on behalf of local authorities to lead, orchestrate and co-ordinate the improvements in schools across the region. Local authorities established the regional school improvement service in 2014 under the national model for regional working. Regional consortia, I should stress, are not an additional layer of bureaucracy. Where they follow the national model, they consolidate the school improvement activities of their constituent local authorities and provide them on a regional basis.

Lywydd, mae'n siomedig nad yw Mr Hamilton fel pe bai'n deall trefniadau llywodraethu'r consortia rhanbarthol. Mae'r consortia'n gweithio ar ran awdurdodau lleol i arwain, trefnu a chydlynu'r gwelliannau mewn ysgolion ar draws y rhanbarth. Sefydlodd awdurdodau lleol y gwasanaeth gwella ysgolion rhanbarthol yn 2014 o dan y model cenedlaethol ar gyfer gweithio'n rhanbarthol. Dylwn bwysleisio nad yw consortia rhanbarthol yn haen ychwanegol o fiwrocratiaeth. Lle byddant yn dilyn y model cenedlaethol, maent yn atgyfnerthu gweithgareddau gwella ysgolion eu hawdurdodau lleol cyfansoddol ac yn eu darparu ar sail ranbarthol.

14:05

I can tell you, Minister, that teachers and headteachers that I meet in Aberconwy continue to regularly question the actual effectiveness and value of the regional consortia. Concerns, indeed, have been raised in the committee during the funding inquiry, and I look forward to a review of the regional consortia. Neath Port Talbot Council voted to leave the educational consortium ERW, and GwE has not yet reached a number of targets in its 2017-20 business plan. These include the need to provide good leadership and management, ensure that schools are well prepared to deliver the new curriculum and guarantee that a value-for-money framework consistently is implemented by all. Those are fundamental basic requirements of any taxpayer-funded body. The latter is impossible for my schools in Aberconwy, as they are actually, as governors in Conwy have stated today, being cut to the bone. Extra money needs to reach our schools and our pupils urgently. So, will you commit to welcoming any potential review of the education consortia in Wales, and will you actually be open and welcome and look at any recommendations that we come up with and work with us, as a committee, to perhaps not have a blinkered view to what the regional consortia are, whether they're good, bad or indifferent? Let's have a look at this once and for all, and let's let them prove themselves to be effective and a good use of taxpayers' money.

Gallaf ddweud wrthych, Weinidog, fod athrawon a phenaethiaid rwy'n cyfarfod â hwy yn Aberconwy yn parhau i gwestiynu effeithiolrwydd a gwerth gwirioneddol y consortia rhanbarthol yn rheolaidd. Yn wir, lleisiwyd pryderon yn y pwyllgor yn ystod yr ymchwiliad cyllid, ac edrychaf ymlaen at adolygiad o'r consortia rhanbarthol. Pleidleisiodd Cyngor Castell-nedd Port Talbot i adael y consortiwm addysgol ERW, ac nid yw GwE hyd yma wedi cyrraedd nifer o dargedau yn ei gynllun busnes 2017-20. Mae'r rhain yn cynnwys yr angen i ddarparu arweinyddiaeth a rheolaeth dda, sicrhau bod ysgolion wedi'u paratoi'n dda i gyflwyno'r cwricwlwm newydd a sicrhau bod pawb yn gweithredu fframwaith sy'n sicrhau gwerth am arian yn gyson. Mae'r rheini'n ofynion sylfaenol i unrhyw gorff a ariennir gan drethdalwyr. Mae'r olaf yn amhosibl i fy ysgolion yn Aberconwy, oherwydd mewn gwirionedd, fel y mae llywodraethwyr yng Nghonwy wedi'i ddatgan heddiw, cânt eu torri i'r byw. Mae angen i arian ychwanegol gyrraedd ein hysgolion a'n disgyblion ar frys. Felly, a wnewch chi ymrwymo i groesawu unrhyw adolygiad posibl o'r consortia addysg yng Nghymru, ac a wnewch chi fod yn agored a chroesawu ac edrych ar unrhyw argymhellion a gyflwynir gennym a gweithio gyda ni fel pwyllgor, a sicrhau na cheir barn gul, o bosibl, o ran yr hyn yw'r consortia rhanbarthol, a ydynt yn dda, yn ddrwg neu heb fod yn gwneud gwahaniaeth? Gadewch i ni edrych ar hyn unwaith ac am byth, a gadewch i ni adael iddynt brofi eu bod yn effeithiol ac yn ddefnydd da o arian trethdalwyr.

Presiding Officer, the Member has clearly missed my written reply to the committee's report, where I have accepted all the recommendations of that report. Rather than welcoming a review, I shall be setting it up.

Lywydd, mae'n amlwg nad yw'r Aelod wedi gweld fy ymateb ysgrifenedig i adroddiad y pwyllgor, lle y derbyniais holl argymhellion yr adroddiad hwnnw. Yn hytrach na chroesawu adolygiad, byddaf yn ei sefydlu.

Tynnwyd cwestiwn 6 [OAQ54353] yn ôl. Cwestiwn 7—Rhianon Passmore.

Question 6 [OAQ54353] is withdrawn. Question 7—Rhianon Passmore.

Y System Anghenion Dysgu Ychwanegol
The Additional Learning Needs System

7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog amlinellu'r amserlenni sy'n gysylltiedig â gweithredu'r system anghenion dysgu ychwanegol? OAQ54383

7. Will the Minister outline the timescales involved with the implementation of the additional learning needs system? OAQ54383

Thank you very much. As set out in my statement of 17 September, the statutory roles created by the Additional Learning Needs and Education Tribunal (Wales) Act 2018 commence in January 2021, and the new ALN system will commence, on a phased basis, from September 2021. The code and regulations will be laid for National Assembly approval in 2020.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Fel y nodwyd yn fy natganiad ar 17 Medi, mae'r swyddogaethau statudol a grëwyd gan Ddeddf Anghenion Dysgu Ychwanegol a'r Tribiwnlys Addysg (Cymru) 2018 yn dechrau ym mis Ionawr 2021, a bydd y system ADY newydd yn dechrau fesul cam o fis Medi 2021 ymlaen. Cyflwynir y cod a'r rheoliadau gerbron y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn 2020 i'w cymeradwyo.

Diolch, Minister. Thank you for the confirmation, then, that the additional learning needs system will commence on that phased basis from September 2021. Teachers, parents, educators and teaching trade unions will, indeed, welcome the fact that the Welsh Government has listened and acted constructively on their feedback and the many conversations that have taken place. And I know, Minister, that you passionately believe that it is essential that time is taken to listen and respond to the views gathered during that consultation so that the code and regulations are fully fit for purpose. Minister, what actions will the Welsh Government take to ensure that, as this process moves forward, there will continue to be ongoing, constructive open dialogue with all interested parties to ensure the greatest possible potential of success when the additional learning needs system comes into force?

Diolch, Weinidog. Diolch am y cadarnhad, felly, y bydd y system anghenion dysgu ychwanegol yn dechrau fesul cam o fis Medi 2021 ymlaen. Yn wir, bydd athrawon, rhieni, addysgwyr ac undebau llafur addysg yn croesawu'r ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gwrando ac wedi gweithredu'n adeiladol ar eu hadborth a'r nifer fawr o sgyrsiau a gafwyd. Ac rwy'n gwybod, Weinidog, eich bod yn credu'n angerddol ei bod yn hanfodol fod amser yn cael ei roi i wrando ac ymateb i'r safbwyntiau a gasglwyd yn ystod yr ymgynghoriad fel bod y cod a'r rheoliadau yn gwbl addas i'r diben. Weinidog, pa gamau y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i sicrhau, wrth i'r broses hon symud yn ei blaen, y bydd deialog agored ac adeiladol yn parhau gyda phawb sydd â diddordeb i sicrhau'r llwyddiant gorau posibl pan ddaw'r system anghenion dysgu ychwanegol i rym?

Well, the Member is correct in saying that we've had to take very seriously the response that we have had to the draft code and amend our timetable accordingly. I can give her and the Chamber an assurance that we will continue to work with all stakeholders to address the concerns that have been raised and to ensure that the new system is effective and provides the change that parents and children need. My officials are aiming to conduct, over the coming weeks and months, meetings and events with key stakeholders to refine specific aspects of the code where concerns have been raised during the consultation period. If I can give some specific examples of what that would include: in relation to required use of educational psychologists, the boundary between school and local authority maintained individual development plans and the operation of systems within the pupil referral units and Welsh education otherwise than at school more generally. So, that's to give Members some flavour of the specific areas of work where we're going to have to engage once again with stakeholders in preparation for the drafting of the code.

Wel, mae'r Aelod yn gywir i ddweud ein bod wedi gorfod rhoi ystyriaeth ddifrifol iawn i'r ymateb a gawsom i'r cod drafft a diwygio ein hamserlen yn unol â hwnnw. Gallaf roi sicrwydd iddi hi a'r Siambr y byddwn yn parhau i weithio gyda'r holl randdeiliaid i fynd i'r afael â'r pryderon a godwyd ac i sicrhau bod y system newydd yn effeithiol ac yn darparu'r newid sydd ei angen ar rieni a phlant. Mae fy swyddogion yn bwriadu cynnal cyfarfodydd a digwyddiadau gyda rhanddeiliaid allweddol dros yr wythnosau a'r misoedd nesaf i fireinio agweddau penodol ar y cod lle y mynegwyd pryderon yn ystod y cyfnod ymgynghori. Os caf roi rhai enghreifftiau penodol o'r hyn y byddai hynny'n ei gynnwys: mewn perthynas â'r defnydd gofynnol o seicolegwyr addysg, y ffin rhwng yr ysgol a chynlluniau datblygu unigol a gynhelir gan awdurdodau lleol a gweithrediad systemau o fewn yr unedau cyfeirio disgyblion ac addysg Gymraeg y tu allan i'r ysgol yn fwy cyffredinol. Felly, dyna roi blas i'r Aelodau o'r meysydd gwaith penodol lle bydd yn rhaid i ni ymgysylltu unwaith eto â rhanddeiliaid i baratoi ar gyfer drafftio'r cod.

Llywydd, I remind the Chamber that I'm on the governing body of two special schools. We are in that in-between zone. I do welcome the shift away from statements, particularly for the flexibility we require. Children have a variety of issues, sometimes, and some of them may not get quite to the statement threshold. Where do they go? They still need real interventions. But I noticed the balanced remarks of SNAP Cymru, saying that we are in this difficult period between two systems, and I am concerned that some children will not be receiving the support in education that they require, and that has to be—. In the next year, we must emphasise that the system that is in place at the moment goes until it's replaced.

Lywydd, rwy'n atgoffa'r Siambr fy mod ar gorff llywodraethu dwy ysgol arbennig. Rydym yn nhir neb ar hyn o bryd. Rwy'n croesawu'r symudiad oddi wrth ddatganiadau, yn enwedig o ran yr hyblygrwydd sydd ei angen arnom. Mae gan blant amrywiaeth o broblemau weithiau, ac efallai na fydd rhai ohonynt yn cyrraedd trothwy'r datganiad. I ble y gallant fynd? Mae angen ymyriadau go iawn arnynt o hyd. Ond nodais sylwadau cytbwys SNAP Cymru, a oedd yn dweud ein bod yn y cyfnod anodd hwn rhwng dwy system, ac rwy'n pryderu na fydd rhai plant yn cael y cymorth addysgol y maent ei angen, ac mae'n rhaid i hynny fod—. Yn y flwyddyn nesaf, mae'n rhaid i ni bwysleisio y bydd y system sydd ar waith ar hyn o bryd yn parhau hyd nes y caiff ei disodli.

14:10

David, you are absolutely correct. Local education authorities are bound by the law as it stands now, and simply because we are transitioning to a new legislative framework, that does not allow them not to attend to the needs of children who are in the system now. My expectation is that they apply the law to children who have a range of special educational needs as it is currently stated, and they simply cannot leave those children dangling in anticipation of the new legislative regime that is coming into force. I have been very clear in my communications with the Welsh Local Government Association, with education portfolio holders and directors of education, who I met last Friday morning, on my expectations in this regard. They have to follow the law as it currently stands, as we wait to introduce the new law.

David, rydych yn hollol gywir. Mae awdurdodau addysg lleol wedi'u rhwymo gan y gyfraith fel y mae ar hyn o bryd, ac nid yw'r ffaith ein bod yn trosglwyddo i fframwaith ddeddfwriaethol newydd yn caniatáu iddynt beidio â rhoi sylw i anghenion plant sydd yn y system yn awr. Rwy'n disgwyl eu bod yn cymhwyso'r gyfraith i blant sydd ag ystod o anghenion addysgol arbennig fel y'i nodir ar hyn o bryd, ac ni allant anwybyddu'r plant hynny hyd nes y daw'r drefn ddeddfwriaethol newydd i rym. Rwyf wedi bod yn glir iawn yn fy ngohebiaeth â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, gyda deiliaid portffolio addysg a chyfarwyddwyr addysg, y cyfarfûm â hwy fore dydd Gwener diwethaf ynglŷn â fy nisgwyliadau yn hyn o beth. Mae'n rhaid iddynt ddilyn y gyfraith fel ag y mae ar hyn o bryd, wrth i ni aros i gyflwyno'r gyfraith newydd.

Asesiadau Personol Ar-lein
Online Personalised Assessments

8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am gyflwyno asesiadau personol ar-lein i ddysgwyr ac ysgolion? OAQ54362

8. Will the Minister provide an update on the roll-out of online personalised assessments for learners and schools? OAQ54362

Thank you, Hefin. I made a written statement updating Members on the roll-out of online personalised assessments on 3 September. By the end of the summer term, over 268,000 learners had successfully taken online numeracy procedural  assessments. Following extensive development work and trialling, reading assessments will be available to schools from October.

Diolch, Hefin. Gwneuthum ddatganiad ysgrifenedig yn rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Aelodau ynglŷn â chyflwyno asesiadau personol ar-lein ar 3 Medi. Erbyn diwedd tymor yr haf, roedd dros 268,000 o ddysgwyr wedi cwblhau asesiadau gweithdrefnol rhifedd ar-lein yn llwyddiannus. Yn dilyn gwaith datblygu a threialu helaeth, bydd asesiadau darllen ar gael i ysgolion o fis Hydref ymlaen.

In addition to that, the Minister will know I wrote to her on 16 July on behalf of a cluster of schools in Caerphilly county borough, particularly Glyn-Gaer in my constituency. They had concerns about the way the tests were happening in the school, the fact that you couldn't carry out certain activities within the tests, and that the results were difficult for teachers to interpret easily and quickly. She mentioned in her statement that changes have been made and improvements have been addressed. But with that in mind, can you confirm that you've met with the schools that wrote to you, or your officials have met with the schools that have written to you, and what actions have been taken directly with those schools as a result?

Yn ogystal â hynny, bydd y Gweinidog yn gwybod fy mod wedi ysgrifennu ati ar 16 Gorffennaf ar ran clwstwr o ysgolion ym mwrdeistref sirol Caerffili, yn enwedig Glyn-Gaer yn fy etholaeth. Roedd ganddynt bryderon am y ffordd y cynhelid y profion yn yr ysgol, y ffaith na allech gyflawni rhai gweithgareddau o fewn y profion, a bod y canlyniadau'n anodd i athrawon eu dehongli'n hawdd ac yn gyflym. Soniodd yn ei datganiad fod newidiadau wedi'u gwneud a bod gwelliannau wedi cael sylw. Ond gyda hynny mewn golwg, a allwch gadarnhau eich bod wedi cyfarfod â'r ysgolion a ysgrifennodd atoch, neu fod eich swyddogion wedi cyfarfod â'r ysgolion sydd wedi ysgrifennu atoch, a pha gamau a gymerwyd yn uniongyrchol gyda'r ysgolion hynny o ganlyniad?

Well, I'm grateful to the Member for making the representations that he has done on behalf of that cluster of schools. We have acted on that feedback, not only from yourself, but from other schools, and we have, over the summer, made a number of refinements to the system that should address the concerns that were raised in your letter. By introducing assessments on a phased roll-out, we are able to use the experience of maths to ensure that we don't fall into some of those bear traps as we roll out with reading this autumn. As promised in my response, officials are already discussing with the relevant regional consortium how they can best engage with that particular group of schools, and I understand that, in response to the invitation in my letter, a teacher from one of the schools has already confirmed her attendance at the next teacher panel for the review of the online numerical reasoning assessment, which will be held in October. So, those teachers are actively engaged in the process, and I'm very grateful for them taking the time to do just that; it's really helpful.

Wel, rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Aelod am wneud y sylwadau y mae wedi'u gwneud ar ran y clwstwr hwnnw o ysgolion. Rydym wedi gweithredu ar yr adborth nid yn unig gennych chi, ond gan ysgolion eraill, a thros yr haf, gwnaethom nifer o welliannau i'r system a ddylai fynd i'r afael â'r pryderon a godwyd yn eich llythyr. Drwy gyflwyno asesiadau fesul cam, gallwn ddefnyddio profiad yr asesiadau mathemateg i sicrhau nad ydym yn gwneud rhai o'r camgymeriadau hynny wrth i ni gyflwyno'r asesiadau darllen yr hydref hwn. Fel yr addawyd yn fy ymateb, mae swyddogion eisoes yn trafod gyda'r consortiwm rhanbarthol perthnasol i weld sut y gallant ymgysylltu orau â'r grŵp penodol hwnnw o ysgolion, ac mewn ymateb i'r gwahoddiad yn fy llythyr, deallaf fod athro o un o'r ysgolion eisoes wedi cadarnhau y bydd yn bresennol yng nghyfarfod nesaf y panel athrawon ar gyfer yr adolygiad o'r asesiad rhesymu rhifyddol ar-lein, a gaiff ei gynnal ym mis Hydref. Felly, mae'r athrawon hynny'n ymwneud yn weithredol â'r broses, ac rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn eu bod yn rhoi amser i wneud hynny; mae'n ddefnyddiol iawn.

Minister, I welcome, too, the value that these online assessments can add to the assessment programme the teachers undertake, but one of the concerns that have been raised with me is that, obviously, there is a bit of a digital divide in our country between those children who perhaps will not have the opportunity to be as skilled as others in the use of computers and don't even have access to a computer in their home, or access to broadband at home, where, of course, others will have, and they could potentially gain an advantage. What have you got built in to these systems to make sure that those sorts of issues are considered in the way that these assessments are undertaken?

Weinidog, rwyf innau hefyd yn croesawu'r gwerth y gall yr asesiadau ar-lein hyn ei ychwanegu at y rhaglen asesu y mae'r athrawon yn ymgymryd â hi, ond un o'r pryderon a godwyd gyda mi, wrth gwrs, yw bod rhywfaint o raniad digidol yn ein gwlad rhwng y plant na fyddant efallai'n cael cyfle i fod mor fedrus ag eraill wrth ddefnyddio cyfrifiadur ac nad oes ganddynt gyfrifiadur at eu defnydd yn eu cartref hyd yn oed, neu fynediad at fand eang yn eu cartref, lle bydd gan rai eraill, wrth gwrs, ac mae'n bosibl y gallai hynny roi mantais iddynt. Beth sydd wedi'i gynnwys yn y systemau hyn i sicrhau bod materion o'r fath yn cael eu hystyried yn y ffordd y caiff yr asesiadau hyn eu cynnal?

Firstly, the Member will be aware that the first part of our new curriculum is the roll-out of the digital competence framework and, therefore, there is an expectation on schools to address these skills with their entire pupil population. With regard to information technology facilities within schools and ensuring that there is equity of provision across the piece, you'll be aware that the Government has invested heavily—tens of millions of pounds—to ensure connectivity for our schools. I'm very pleased to say, and I'm sure every Member of the Chamber will be pleased to hear it, that our final school in Pembrokeshire, which was the last outstanding school in the programme, has now been connected, and in doing that we've also solved some of the community connectivity issues as well.

Our attention therefore has now turned to supporting schools with the IT infrastructure within their schools, and the Member will be aware that, prior to the summer recess, I announced a £50 million capital investment project in edtech. Each local authority at the moment is conducting individual school surveys so that we understand where individual schools are with their infrastructure within their schools, and therefore Welsh Government will then be working with local authorities, with that £50 million, to ensure that there is equity of provision within schools.

Outside of schools, the Member will also be aware of the deal that the Welsh Government has struck to supply Microsoft Office software to all schools in Wales, paid for by the Welsh Government, and that software is also available for pupils, to be able to use on devices at home, so parents will not have to buy a licence for Microsoft Office software and their children will be able to use their log on in the home. Again, that helps address same of this digital divide, if a parent is struggling to find money to pay for those licences.

Yn gyntaf, bydd yr Aelod yn ymwybodol mai rhan gyntaf ein cwricwlwm newydd yw cyflwyno'r fframwaith cymhwysedd digidol ac felly, mae disgwyl i ysgolion fynd i'r afael â'r sgiliau hyn gyda'u holl ddisgyblion. O ran cyfleusterau technoleg gwybodaeth mewn ysgolion a sicrhau bod darpariaeth gyfartal yn gyffredinol, fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol fod y Llywodraeth wedi buddsoddi'n helaeth—degau o filiynau o bunnau—i sicrhau cysylltedd ar gyfer ein hysgolion. Rwy'n falch iawn o ddweud, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd pob Aelod o'r Siambr yn falch o'i glywed, fod ein hysgol olaf yn Sir Benfro, sef yr ysgol olaf yn y rhaglen heb ei chysylltu, wedi'i chysylltu erbyn hyn, ac wrth wneud hynny rydym hefyd wedi datrys rhai o'r materion cysylltedd cymunedol hefyd.

Felly, mae ein sylw bellach wedi troi at gefnogi ysgolion sydd â'r seilwaith TG yn eu hysgolion, a bydd yr Aelod yn ymwybodol fy mod, cyn toriad yr haf, wedi cyhoeddi prosiect buddsoddi cyfalaf gwerth £50 miliwn mewn technoleg addysg. Mae pob awdurdod lleol ar hyn o bryd yn cynnal arolygon o ysgolion unigol er mwyn i ni ddeall lle mae'r ysgolion arni gyda'u seilwaith o fewn eu hysgolion unigol, ac felly bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol wedyn, gyda'r £50 miliwn hwnnw, er mwyn sicrhau bod y ddarpariaeth yn gyfartal o fewn yr ysgolion.

Y tu allan i ysgolion, bydd yr Aelod hefyd yn ymwybodol o'r fargen y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i tharo i gyflenwi meddalwedd Microsoft Office i bob ysgol yng Nghymru, bargen y talwyd amdani gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ac mae'r feddalwedd hefyd ar gael i ddisgyblion allu ei defnyddio ar ddyfeisiau yn y cartref, felly ni fydd yn rhaid i rieni brynu trwydded ar gyfer meddalwedd Microsoft Office a gall eu plant fewngofnodi yn y cartref. Unwaith eto, mae hynny'n helpu i ddatrys rhywfaint o'r rhaniad digidol hwn, os yw rhiant yn ei chael hi'n anodd dod o hyd i arian i dalu am y trwyddedau hynny.

14:15

Y cwestiwn olaf, cwestiwn 9, Paul Davies.

The final question, question 9, Paul Davies.

Plant sydd â'u Teuluoedd yn y Lluoedd
Service Children

9. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am yr hyn y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i gefnogi plant mewn ysgolion, sydd â'u teuluoedd yn y lluoedd? OAQ54365

9. Will the Minister make a statement on what the Welsh Government is doing to support service children in schools? OAQ54365

The Welsh Government's supporting service children in education Wales fund helps schools provide additional support to mitigate the challenges that children of armed forces communities can face because of their family's military lifestyle. I have made available £250,000 for applications this academic year.

Mae cronfa Llywodraeth Cymru i gefnogi addysg plant y lluoedd arfog yn helpu ysgolion i ddarparu cymorth ychwanegol i liniaru'r heriau y gall plant cymunedau'r lluoedd arfog eu hwynebu oherwydd ffordd o fyw filwrol eu teulu. Rwyf wedi neilltuo £250,000 ar gyfer ceisiadau y flwyddyn academaidd hon.

I'm grateful to the Minister for that response. You'll be aware, of course, of the calls from the Assembly's cross-party group on armed forces to establish a service pupil premium here in Wales, and I believe a service pupil premium would go a long way in supporting those children who are disadvantaged as a result of their parents' service in the armed forces, either due to their frequent relocations or the impact of active service. I know that additional support would be welcomed as the armed forces play a key role in your constituency, Minister, as well as in my own. Therefore, can you tell us whether the Welsh Government is considering introducing a service pupil premium here in Wales, and if not, can you tell us what additional specific support the Welsh Government can actually offer to service children in Welsh schools?

Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Gweinidog am yr ateb hwnnw. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol, wrth gwrs, o'r galwadau gan grŵp trawsbleidiol y Cynulliad ar y lluoedd arfog i sefydlu premiwm disgyblion y lluoedd arfog yma yng Nghymru, a chredaf y byddai premiwm disgyblion y lluoedd arfog yn gwneud llawer i gefnogi'r plant sydd dan anfantais o ganlyniad i'r ffaith bod eu rhieni'n gwasanaethu yn y lluoedd arfog, naill ai oherwydd eu bod yn adleoli'n aml neu oherwydd effaith gwasanaeth gweithredol. Gwn y byddai cefnogaeth ychwanegol yn cael ei chroesawu gan fod y lluoedd arfog yn chwarae rôl allweddol yn eich etholaeth chi, Weinidog, yn ogystal ag yn fy un i. Felly, a allwch chi ddweud wrthym a yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn ystyried cyflwyno premiwm disgyblion y lluoedd arfog yma yng Nghymru, ac os nad ydyw, a allwch chi ddweud wrthym pa gymorth penodol ychwanegol y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei gynnig i blant y lluoedd arfog yn ysgolion Cymru?

Presiding Officer, I am very alive to the issues faced by children of serving families, which is why we have made this fund available. That fund this year is supporting three projects in the county of Pembrokeshire, and I'm sure the Member would be glad of that. If he's not aware of the individual projects, I'm happy to write to him with details of the schools that are in receipt of that grant.

We continue to look at the needs of our entire cohort of children when deciding educational budgets, and he will be aware of the challenging financial situation that the Welsh Government has found itself in. I'm committed to doing what I can to find resources to support the projects that are ongoing at the moment, and crucially I have started the process by which we will systematically begin to collect data on armed service families' children in our education system. That is not collected at the moment. It's very difficult to keep track and provide the evidence that we would need to support additional investment in our schools. We have started that process now, where pupil level annual school census data will be amended so that schools can record children of military families, and at the same time we will be amending PLASC data so that families who have adopted children will also be recorded. It's a long and tortuous process—longer than I would have liked it—but that process has now begun, which will mean that we will have better data so that we can make informed policy decisions in the future.

Lywydd, rwy'n effro iawn i'r problemau a wynebir gan blant teuluoedd sy'n gwasanaethu, a dyna pam ein bod wedi sicrhau bod y gronfa hon ar gael. Eleni, mae'r gronfa'n cefnogi tri phrosiect yn Sir Benfro, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddai'r Aelod yn falch o hynny. Os nad yw'n ymwybodol o'r prosiectau unigol, rwy'n hapus i ysgrifennu ato gyda manylion yr ysgolion sy'n derbyn y grant hwnnw.

Rydym yn parhau i edrych ar anghenion ein cohort cyfan o blant wrth benderfynu ar gyllidebau addysgol, ac fe fydd yn ymwybodol o'r sefyllfa ariannol heriol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru ynddi. Rwy'n ymrwymedig i wneud yr hyn a allaf i ddod o hyd i adnoddau i gefnogi'r prosiectau sydd ar y gweill ar hyn o bryd, ac yn hollbwysig rwyf wedi dechrau ar y broses systematig ar gyfer dechrau casglu data ar blant teuluoedd y lluoedd arfog yn ein system addysg. Nid yw hwnnw'n cael ei gasglu ar hyn o bryd. Mae'n anodd iawn cadw golwg ar hyn a darparu'r dystiolaeth y byddem ei hangen i gefnogi buddsoddiad ychwanegol yn ein hysgolion. Rydym wedi dechrau ar y broses honno yn awr, lle bydd data cyfrifiadau ysgolion blynyddol ar lefel disgyblion yn cael ei ddiwygio fel y gall ysgolion gofnodi plant teuluoedd milwrol, ac ar yr un pryd byddwn yn newid data CYBLD fel y gellir cofnodi teuluoedd sydd wedi mabwysiadu plant hefyd. Mae'n broses hirfaith—yn hwy nag y buaswn yn dymuno—ond mae'r broses honno wedi dechrau erbyn hyn, ac mae hynny'n golygu y bydd gennym ddata gwell fel y gallwn wneud penderfyniadau polisi gwybodus yn y dyfodol.

2. Cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol
2. Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan John Griffiths.

The next item, therefore, is questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services, and the first question is from John Griffiths.  

Amseroedd Aros Canser
Cancer Waiting Times

1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am amseroedd aros am ddiagnosis ar ôl i'r GIG ganfod amheuaeth o ganser? OAQ54385

1. Will the Minister make a statement on waiting times from NHS identification of suspected cancer to diagnosis? OAQ54385

Thank you for the question. I made the decision to improve cancer diagnosis, with Wales being the first country to introduce the single cancer pathway. This reports on the time a patient waits from initial suspicion of cancer to the start of treatment. Our latest data shows that 75.1 per cent of patients started treatment within 62 days of the initial point of suspicion.

Diolch am y cwestiwn. Gwneuthum y penderfyniad i wella diagnosis canser, a Chymru yw'r wlad gyntaf i gyflwyno'r llwybr canser sengl. Mae hwn yn adrodd ar yr amser y mae claf yn aros o'r amheuaeth gychwynnol o ganser hyd at ddechrau'r driniaeth. Mae ein data diweddaraf yn dangos bod 75.1 y cant o gleifion wedi dechrau triniaeth o fewn 62 diwrnod i'r amheuaeth gychwynnol o ganser.

Minister, for the eight most common types of cancer, survival is three times greater when diagnosis is early and it is detected at the earliest stages rather than the latest stages. Of course, patients and their families go through absolute agony from cancer being suspected to eventual diagnosis one way or the other. I very much welcome what you mentioned in your initial response, because that’s real progress that’s very significant and important, but I know that capacity constraints continue, such as workforce shortages, and that is limiting the NHS’s ability to diagnose. Amongst the asks of some of the organisations representing people with cancer and their families are that the Welsh Government conducts an audit of diagnostic staff within the Welsh NHS and then addresses the gaps that exist. Is that something that Welsh Government will commit to?

Weinidog, ar gyfer yr wyth math mwyaf cyffredin o ganser, mae cyfraddau goroesi deirgwaith yn fwy pan geir diagnosis cynnar a phan gaiff ei ganfod yn y camau cynharaf yn hytrach nag yn y camau diweddaraf. Wrth gwrs, mae cleifion a'u teuluoedd yn dioddef yr artaith llwyr o'r amheuaeth o ganser i ddiagnosis un ffordd neu'r llall. Rwy'n croesawu'r hyn a grybwyllwyd gennych yn eich ymateb cychwynnol yn fawr, oherwydd mae hwnnw'n gynnydd gwirioneddol sy'n arwyddocaol ac yn bwysig iawn, ond gwn fod cyfyngiadau ar gapasiti yn parhau, megis prinder yn y gweithlu, ac mae hynny'n cyfyngu ar allu'r GIG i wneud diagnosis. Un o ofynion rhai o'r sefydliadau sy'n cynrychioli pobl â chanser a'u teuluoedd yw bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cynnal archwiliad o staff diagnostig y GIG yng Nghymru ac yna'n mynd i'r afael â'r bylchau sy'n bodoli. A yw hynny'n rhywbeth y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru'n ymrwymo iddo?

14:20

The point that the Member makes about earlier diagnosis is exactly right—it’s a key section of our cancer strategy here in Wales. And, of course, the single cancer pathway will give us a better idea of the points at which we need to improve across the service. There is always going to be a workforce challenge that is simply not going to be resolved by new treatments or new technology. So, the workforce strategy that Health Education and Improvement Wales are working on will of course take into account the steps that we are already taking, for example the imaging academy and the work that we discussed here in this Chamber last week on improving endoscopy services, all of which will have an impact, not just on improving what we're able to do, but on our need to plan for and then acquire the numbers of staff. So, I think I can give the Member the assurance that we are looking at our current numbers of staff. The information we'll get from the operation of the single cancer pathway will give us further information and, of course, you'll see that when we publish the draft workforce strategy that HEIW are working on together with Social Care Wales.

Mae'r pwynt y mae'r Aelod yn ei wneud am ddiagnosis cynharach yn hollol gywir—mae'n rhan allweddol o'n strategaeth ar gyfer canser yma yng Nghymru. Ac wrth gwrs, bydd y llwybr canser sengl yn rhoi gwell syniad i ni o'r pethau sydd angen inni eu gwella ar draws y gwasanaeth. Bydd yna her mewn perthynas â'r gweithlu bob amser ac ni fydd triniaethau newydd neu dechnoleg newydd yn gallu ei datrys. Felly, bydd strategaeth y gweithlu y mae Addysg a Gwella Iechyd Cymru yn gweithio arni yn ystyried y camau rydym eisoes yn eu cymryd wrth gwrs, er enghraifft yr academi ddelweddu a'r gwaith a drafodasom yma yn y Siambr hon yr wythnos diwethaf ar wella gwasanaethau endosgopi, a bydd hyn i gyd yn cael effaith, nid yn unig ar yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud, ond ar ein hangen i gynllunio ar gyfer niferoedd y staff, a'u caffael wedyn. Felly, rwy'n credu y gallaf roi sicrwydd i'r Aelod ein bod yn edrych ar niferoedd ein staff ar hyn o bryd. Bydd yr wybodaeth a gawn drwy weithredu'r llwybr canser sengl yn rhoi rhagor o wybodaeth i ni ac wrth gwrs, fe fyddwch yn gweld hynny pan fyddwn yn cyhoeddi'r strategaeth ddrafft ar gyfer y gweithlu y mae Addysg a Gwella Iechyd Cymru yn gweithio arni gyda Gofal Cymdeithasol Cymru.

Minister, Wales has now a single waiting-time target for cancer diagnosis and treatment, which I welcome. However, it is well known that we lack capacity in diagnosis services, and your Government has failed to meet its own targets for cancer waiting times via the urgent route since 2008. Minister, what action are you taking to deliver this significant investment in cancer facilities across Wales to build up the capacity required to meet this new single target for cancer diagnosis?

Weinidog, un targed sydd gan Gymru bellach mewn perthynas ag amser aros ar gyfer diagnosis o ganser a thriniaeth canser, ac rwy'n croesawu hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae'n hysbys nad oes gennym y capasiti o ran gwasanaethau diagnosis, ac mae eich Llywodraeth wedi methu cyrraedd ei thargedau ei hun ar gyfer amseroedd aros canser drwy'r llwybr brys ers 2008. Weinidog, pa gamau rydych yn eu cymryd i sicrhau'r buddsoddiad sylweddol hwn mewn cyfleusterau canser ledled Cymru i adeiladu'r capasiti sydd ei angen i gyrraedd y targed sengl newydd hwn ar gyfer diagnosis canser?

Well, I think much of what the Member asked was covered in my response to John Griffiths. It is a fact that when you look at cancer waiting times we've comparatively done better than England. If you look at our single cancer pathway new figure, it’s actually only a couple of percentage points lower than the old target on offer in England, and for only some of the pathway. And the reason that we introduced the new single cancer pathway was because we recognised that there were hidden waits within the system within the 31-day figure. So, we've got a much more honest reflection on where we are, and we have invested in the past and we continue to invest now. It’s a matter of fact that we've invested 6.5 per cent in the budget to train healthcare professionals in the last year. It goes back to the points I made to John Griffiths about having a proper workforce strategy, understanding what we're already doing and the investments we've already made.

Wel, rwy'n credu bod llawer o'r hyn a ofynnodd yr Aelod wedi'i gynnwys yn fy ymateb i John Griffiths. Mae'n ffaith, pan fyddwch yn edrych ar amseroedd aros canser, ein bod wedi gwneud yn gymharol well na Lloegr. Os edrychwch ar ffigur newydd ein llwybr canser sengl, nid yw ond ychydig o bwyntiau canran yn is na'r hen darged a gynigid yn Lloegr, a hynny ar gyfer rhan o'r llwybr yn unig. A'r rheswm pam y cyflwynasom y llwybr canser sengl newydd oedd ein bod yn cydnabod bod arosiadau cudd yn y system o fewn y ffigur o 31 diwrnod. Felly, mae gennym ddarlun llawer mwy gonest o'n sefyllfa, ac rydym wedi buddsoddi yn y gorffennol ac yn parhau i fuddsoddi yn awr. Mae'n ffaith ein bod wedi buddsoddi 6.5 y cant yn y gyllideb i hyfforddi gweithwyr gofal iechyd proffesiynol yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Mae'n mynd yn ôl at y pwyntiau a wneuthum i John Griffiths ynglŷn â chael strategaeth briodol ar gyfer y gweithlu, deall yr hyn rydym eisoes yn ei wneud a'r buddsoddiadau rydym eisoes wedi'u gwneud.

Triniaethau Rhagnodadwy
Prescribable Treatments

2. Pa asesiad y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'i wneud o ran nifer y bobl y bydd penderfyniad y GIG yng Nghymru yn effeithio arnynt, i ddilyn y dull a gymerwyd gan y GIG yn Lloegr a chael gwared ar eitemau y barnwyd eu bod yn flaenoriaeth glinigol isel o'r rhestr o driniaethau rhagnodadwy? OAQ54374

2. What assessment has the Minister made of the number of people who will be affected by the Welsh NHS’s decision to follow the approach taken by the NHS in England and remove items that have been deemed as of low clinical priority from the list of prescribable treatments? OAQ54374

NHS Wales has not taken the approach the Member refers to. The All Wales Medicines Strategy Group has developed guidance identifying several treatments that are poor value for money, ineffective or dangerous. Doctors use their clinical judgment and other prescribers to offer the best possible treatment options to their patients.

Nid yw GIG Cymru wedi mabwysiadu'r dull o weithredu y mae'r Aelod yn cyfeirio ato. Mae Grŵp Strategaeth Feddyginiaethau Cymru wedi datblygu canllawiau i nodi nifer o driniaethau sy'n cynnig gwerth gwael am arian, yn aneffeithiol neu'n beryglus. Mae meddygon yn defnyddio eu crebwyll clinigol a rhagnodwyr eraill i gynnig yr opsiynau triniaeth gorau posibl i'w cleifion.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. Welsh eight-year-old Sofia Bow was born with the genetic disorder cystic fibrosis, which affects one in every 2,500 babies born. This Government has refused to fund the drugs Orkambi and Symkevi, even though they have been proven to improve lung health and reduce the need for hospital admissions, saying they're too expensive, while the Scottish Government has managed to negotiate a discount with the manufacturers so that the drugs can be prescribed to sufferers in Scotland. Sofia’s family are considering leaving their Welsh home to move to Scotland so that their daughter can get the life-changing treatment she needs. So, will you now copy the Scottish NHS in prescribing Orkambi and Symkevi? If it is just down to the money, once you've worked out a reasonable price for a child’s life, will you arrange a discount if required, or do you need the Scottish health Minister to do it for you?

Diolch i chi am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Ganed y Gymraes wyth oed, Sofia Bow, gydag anhwylder genetig ffeibrosis systig, sy'n effeithio ar un o bob 2,500 o fabanod a gaiff eu geni. Mae'r Llywodraeth hon wedi gwrthod ariannu'r cyffuriau Orkambi a Symkevi, er bod profion wedi dangos eu bod yn gallu gwella iechyd yr ysgyfaint a lleihau'r angen am dderbyn cleifion i'r ysbyty, gan ddweud eu bod yn rhy ddrud, tra bod Llywodraeth yr Alban wedi llwyddo i negodi disgownt gyda'r gwneuthurwyr fel y gellir rhoi'r cyffuriau ar bresgripsiwn i ddioddefwyr yn yr Alban. Mae teulu Sofia yn ystyried gadael eu cartref yng Nghymru a symud i'r Alban fel y gall eu merch gael y driniaeth drawsnewidiol hon sydd ei hangen arni. Felly, a wnewch chi ddilyn esiampl GIG yr Alban yn awr a rhoi Orkambi a Symkevi ar bresgripsiwn? Os mai'r arian yw'r unig rwystr, ar ôl i chi benderfynu ar bris rhesymol am fywyd plentyn, a wnewch chi drefnu disgownt os bydd angen, neu a oes angen i Weinidog iechyd yr Alban wneud hynny ar eich rhan?

I'm afraid the Member's question doesn't just depart from her initial one in not referring to low clinical priority treatments and a list of prescribable treatments, but actually it's a significant misunderstanding of the position around Orkambi.

I have said in correspondence to all Members and in public statements that I continue to express my frustration at the choice that Vertex have made—the manufacturers of Orkambi and Symkevi—to not engage with the appraisal process here in Wales. It's not simply a matter of money. Members here, but also those watching families who are directly affected, this is not simply about money; it is actually about the refusal to engage in a process to provide the clinical evidence of the effectiveness or otherwise of these medicines. Frankly, if they were making the medicines available for £1 a go, as opposed to £100,000 a treatment, we'd still need to know what is the effect of the medicine.

On the deal that they've struck in Scotland, having had their own Scottish appraisal process not grant access to Orkambi, they've then gone back and struck a different deal. That's in commercial confidence. I have not had sight of that, so I'm not in a position to copy the same deal or even to comment properly on the relative value provided to it.

I'd say again to Vertex to engage with the appraisal process here in Wales as they have indicated in the past they would do, to not place families in this invidious position, and to allow us to properly understand the effectiveness of the medication that they have available, and for us then to make a properly evidence-based choice. I don't want any family in Wales to be put in the position that the Member describes because of a refusal of a pharmaceutical company to engage in our well-respected and well-understood appraisal process.

Rwy'n ofni bod cwestiwn yr Aelod yn gwyro oddi wrth ei chwestiwn cyntaf drwy beidio â chyfeirio at driniaethau sydd â blaenoriaeth glinigol isel a rhestr o driniaethau rhagnodadwy, ac mewn gwirionedd, mae'n gamddealltwriaeth sylweddol o'r sefyllfa mewn perthynas ag Orkambi.

Rwyf wedi dweud mewn gohebiaeth â'r holl Aelodau ac mewn datganiadau cyhoeddus fy mod yn dal i fynegi rhwystredigaeth ynglŷn â'r dewis y mae Vertex wedi'i wneud—gweithgynhyrchwyr Orkambi a Symkevi—i beidio ag ymgysylltu â'r broses arfarnu yma yng Nghymru. Nid mater o arian yn unig ydyw. I'r Aelodau yma, ond hefyd i'r teuluoedd sy'n gwylio ac yr effeithir arnynt yn uniongyrchol, mae hyn ymwneud â mwy nag arian yn unig; mewn gwirionedd, mae'n ymwneud â'r amharodrwydd i gymryd rhan mewn proses i ddarparu tystiolaeth glinigol o effeithiolrwydd y meddyginiaethau hyn neu fel arall. A bod yn onest, pe baent yn gwerthu'r meddyginiaethau am £1 y tro, yn hytrach na £100,000 am bob triniaeth, byddai'n dal i fod angen i ni wybod beth yw effaith y feddyginiaeth.

O ran y fargen y maent wedi'i tharo yn yr Alban, ar ôl i'w proses arfarnu eu hunain yno beidio â chaniatáu mynediad at Orkambi, maent wedi mynd yn ôl a tharo bargen wahanol sy'n ddarostyngedig i gyfrinachedd masnachol. Nid wyf wedi gweld hynny, felly nid wyf mewn sefyllfa i gopïo'r un fargen na hyd yn oed i wneud sylwadau yn briodol ar y gwerth cymharol a roddir iddo.

Buaswn yn annog Vertex eto i ymwneud â'r broses arfarnu yma yng Nghymru fel y maent wedi nodi yn y gorffennol y byddent yn ei wneud, i beidio â rhoi teuluoedd yn y sefyllfa annymunol hon, ac i'n galluogi i ddeall yn iawn pa mor effeithiol yw'r feddyginiaeth sydd ganddynt ar gael, ac i ni wedyn wneud dewis sy'n seiliedig ar dystiolaeth briodol. Nid wyf eisiau i unrhyw deulu yng Nghymru gael ei roi yn y sefyllfa y mae'r Aelod yn ei disgrifio oherwydd bod cwmni fferyllol yn gwrthod cymryd rhan yn ein proses arfarnu uchel ei pharch ac sydd wedi'i deall yn dda.

14:25

Minister, I welcome the approach that's been taken by the Welsh Government to the prudent healthcare agenda. One of the principles of that agenda is, 'Only do what you can do and let others do things that you cannot do.' Of course, one of the ways that the NHS could be reformed would be to enable pharmacists across Wales to do more of what is currently being done in GP surgeries. Today is World Pharmacists Day, what do you have to say to those pharmacists across Wales who are looking for a new contract in order that they can deal specifically with this issue once and for all?

Weinidog, rwy'n croesawu'r dull y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i fabwysiadu mewn perthynas â'r agenda gofal iechyd darbodus. Un o egwyddorion yr agenda honno yw, 'Peidiwch â gwneud dim heblaw'r hyn y gallwch ei wneud a gadewch i eraill wneud y pethau na allwch eu gwneud.' Wrth gwrs, un o'r ffyrdd y gellid diwygio'r GIG fyddai galluogi fferyllwyr ledled Cymru i wneud mwy o'r hyn sy'n cael ei wneud ar hyn o bryd mewn meddygfeydd meddygon teulu. Heddiw yw Diwrnod Fferyllwyr y Byd. Beth sydd gennych i'w ddweud wrth y fferyllwyr ledled Cymru sy'n chwilio am gontract newydd er mwyn iddynt allu mynd i'r afael yn benodol â hyn unwaith ac am byth?

As I've indicated previously when discussing primary care more generally here, the reform process of contracts in primary care, including pharmacy, is an important part of our ability to meet our shared objectives. Actually, pharmacy contractors here in Wales who are community pharmacists are engaged in a regular and constructive conversation with the Government. I expect the next stage of the future pharmacy contract to allow us to invest more in the future of pharmacy and in a wider range of services, some of which, you never know, may form part of the questions that other Members will ask later on the order paper.

Fel y nodais o'r blaen wrth drafod gofal sylfaenol yn fwy cyffredinol yma, mae'r broses o ddiwygio contractau ym maes gofal sylfaenol, gan gynnwys fferylliaeth, yn rhan bwysig o'n gallu i gyflawni ein hamcanion cyffredin. Mewn gwirionedd, mae contractwyr fferyllol sy'n fferyllwyr cymunedol yma yng Nghymru yn cymryd rhan mewn sgwrs reolaidd ac adeiladol gyda'r Llywodraeth. Rwy'n disgwyl y bydd cam nesaf y contract fferylliaeth yn y dyfodol yn caniatáu inni fuddsoddi mwy yn nyfodol fferylliaeth ac mewn ystod ehangach o wasanaethau, ac mae'n bosibl y bydd rhai ohonynt, pwy a ŵyr, yn ffurfio rhan o'r cwestiynau y bydd Aelodau eraill yn eu gofyn yn ddiweddarach ar y papur trefn.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Dai Lloyd.

Questions now from the party spokespeople. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Dai Lloyd.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Gweinidog, ydych chi'n hapus efo ansawdd y wybodaeth sydd gennych chi am weithlu y gwasanaeth iechyd?

Thank you, Llywydd. Minister, are you content with the quality of the information that you have about the NHS workforce?

I don't think the current workforce data that we have allows us to have the most robust means to plan for the future. That's part of what we're considering. In fact, I had a discussion on this very point earlier this week. 

Nid wyf yn credu bod y data cyfredol sydd gennym ar y gweithlu yn caniatáu i ni gael y ffordd fwyaf cadarn o gynllunio ar gyfer y dyfodol. Mae hynny'n rhan o'r hyn rydym yn ei ystyried. Yn wir, cefais drafodaeth ar yr union bwynt hwn yn gynharach yr wythnos hon.

Diolch am hynny. Fel rydych chi'n gwybod, yn adroddiad diweddar y pwyllgor iechyd ar nyrsio cymunedol a nyrsio ardal, bu inni dderbyn tystiolaeth a oedd yn darogan—a dwi'n dyfynnu: er yn cydnabod cyfraniad allweddol ein nyrsys cymunedol a'n nyrsys ardal i ddarparu gofal iechyd i'r dyfodol, ni wyddys ryw lawer am y gwasanaeth anweledig yma—'invisible service', fel y'i gelwid. Nid oes darlun manwl gywir ar lefel genedlaethol o'r nifer na chymysgedd sgiliau y timau nyrsio nac o nifer a lefel salwch y cleifion sy'n derbyn gofal yn eu cartrefi eu hunain. Yn naturiol, bydd hyn yn cael effaith ar effeithlonrwydd cynllunio’r gweithlu.

Nawr, dyna beth mae'r dystiolaeth yn ei ddweud. Yn ogystal, cawsom dystiolaeth uniongyrchol o nyrsys yn y gymuned yn gorweithio, o dan straen, mewn system yn gorymestyn eu hunain i ateb y galw, tra roedd penaethiaid byrddau iechyd yn darogan darlun llawer gwahanol o wasanaeth yn cyflawni disgwyliadau. Nid oes data cyflawn ychwaith ar nifer y ffisiotherapyddion na therapyddion galwedigaethol a gyflogir yn y gymuned hefyd. Felly, sut allwch chi gynllunio i symud mwy o ofal iechyd i'r gymuned yn y dyfodol pan nad ydych yn gwybod y nifer na chymhwysedd sgiliau y staff iechyd sydd yn gweithio yna ar hyn o bryd?

Thank you for that. As you know, in the recent report of the health committee on community and district nursing services, we received evidence that predicted—and I quote: that despite recognising the key contribution of our community and district nurses in the provision of healthcare for the future, we don't know much about this invisible service, as it’s described. We don't have a detailed picture at a national level of the number or the skills mix within the nursing teams or the level of illness of the patients receiving care in their own homes. Now, naturally, this will have an impact on workforce planning efficiency.

That’s what the evidence tells us. In addition, we received direct evidence from community nurses being overworked, facing stress, overextending themselves to meet demand, whilst the heads of health boards predicted a far rosier picture of a service achieving its targets. We don't have full data either on the number of physiotherapists or occupational therapists in the community either. So, how can you plan to move more healthcare into the community in future when you don't know the number or the skills level of the healthcare staff working there at the moment?

Well, I wouldn't say it's a blank piece of paper and we don't know anything about the current workforce or indeed the current nature of demand. The Member will know that, in terms of our agenda for moving more care closer to home, it does involve continued investment in primary and community care. It involves the new models of care that are being trialled, both within the transformation fund and outside it as well. That's not just anecdotal evidence about particular parts of the country, it's actually a part of our system-wide reform. We've deliberately chosen to take a path where only those projects that have the ability to scale up will be supported through the transformation fund. So, of course, the evidence that we'll have from our cluster plans as well—where they'll have to plan at cluster level—will inform our medium-term planning process and health boards, in addition to the workforce strategy that is being developed by Health Education and Improvement Wales. So, you have a range of different sources of intelligence on what is currently happening, and what we need to do more of in the future.

But the Member will know, both from his time within this place, and the career that he regularly doesn't mention before he got elected, which he still carries on at various points as well, that this is never a static point in time. And our ability to reform as rapidly as we would like in this place often grinds up against reality. But I do think that the agenda we set out in 'A Healthier Wales' is one that we have commitment across the board for, and we'll continue to make investment choices to support that.

Wel, ni fuaswn yn dweud ei fod yn ddarn gwag o bapur ac nid ydym yn gwybod unrhyw beth am y gweithlu presennol nac yn wir am natur y galw ar hyn o bryd. Bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod, o ran ein hagenda ar gyfer symud mwy o ofal yn nes at y cartref, ei fod yn golygu parhau i fuddsoddi mewn gofal sylfaenol a chymunedol. Mae'n cynnwys y modelau gofal newydd sy'n cael eu treialu o fewn y gronfa trawsnewid ac oddi allan iddi hefyd. Nid tystiolaeth anecdotaidd yn unig am rannau penodol o'r wlad yw honno, mae'n rhan o'r gwaith o ddiwygio'r system gyfan. Rydym yn fwriadol wedi dewis llwybr lle mai dim ond y prosiectau sydd â'r gallu i ehangu fydd yn cael eu cefnogi drwy'r gronfa trawsnewid. Felly, wrth gwrs, bydd y dystiolaeth a gawn o'n cynlluniau clwstwr hefyd—lle bydd yn rhaid iddynt gynllunio ar lefel clwstwr—yn llywio ein proses gynllunio tymor canolig a'r byrddau iechyd, yn ogystal â strategaeth y gweithlu sy'n cael ei datblygu gan Addysg a Gwella Iechyd Cymru. Felly, mae gennych ystod o wahanol ffynonellau o wybodaeth ar yr hyn sy'n digwydd ar hyn o bryd, a'r hyn y mae angen i ni wneud mwy ohono yn y dyfodol.

Ond o'i gyfnod yn y lle hwn, a'i yrfa cyn iddo gael ei ethol nad yw'n sôn amdani'n rheolaidd, gyrfa y mae'n parhau i'w dilyn ar adegau hefyd, bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod nad yw hwn byth yn bwynt statig mewn amser. Ac mae ein gallu i ddiwygio mor gyflym ag yr hoffem yn y lle hwn yn aml yn disgyn yn fyr o'r nod wrth ddod wyneb yn wyneb â realiti. Ond rwy'n credu bod yr agenda a nodwyd gennym yn 'Cymru Iachach' yn un y mae gennym ymrwymiad iddi ar draws y bwrdd, a byddwn yn parhau i wneud penderfyniadau buddsoddi i gefnogi hynny.

14:30

Mae'r un math o bwysau gwaith a bylchau mewn rotas, stres a blinder affwysol sydd yn deillio o orweithio achos prinder staff hefyd yn effeithio ar feddygon yn ein hysbytai—blinder affwysol, cyfrifoldeb dychrynllyd dros fywyd a marwolaeth, dim amseroedd gorffwys, dwyster gwaith heb seibiant, peryglon gyrru car wedi gorffen sifftiau ganol nôs, a'r teimlad o ddiffyg cefnogaeth, a diffyg cydnabyddiaeth o'r ymrwymiad anferthol i'w cleifion, a'r teimlad hefyd fod gweinyddwyr ysbytai yn ddi-hid i hyn oll ac yn ansensitif weithiau. Felly, beth ydych chi, Weinidog, yn ei wneud i hyrwyddo llesiant ein meddygon yn ein hysbytai?

The same kind of pressures of work and gaps in rotas, stress and the terrible tiredness that emerges from overworking because of staff shortages also impact on doctors in our hospitals—exhaustion, huge responsibilities for life-and-death issues, no rest periods, an intensity of work without a break, the dangers of driving having finished and all-night shift, and the feeling of a lack of support and a lack of recognition of the huge commitment to their patients, and also the feeling that hospital administrators don’t take regard of this and are insensitive on occasion. So, what are you, Minister, doing to promote the well-being of our hospital doctors?

Well, we're taking a broad approach. On the one hand, when you look at the quadruple aim, staff are one of the four pillars within that quadruple aim. Specifically, when it comes to the medical side of the workforce, we have engaged already with the British Medical Association on the fatigue charter. I spoke with the BMA in the last few weeks—and that work is ongoing—to try to make sure we deal with some of the points that the Member raises about the incredible pressure and commitment that our medical workforce face. And it's only because of that commitment, not just our medical workforce, but the wider workforce, that the health service continues to provide the quality, breadth and compassion of care that is there. But we don't take that for granted. That's why we've had those discussions with the BMA, and we've have those discussions with other workforce representatives too, because I would not pretend that everything is rosy and everything is fine. Our challenge is how, with the additional demands we see coming in to our system, with all of the other issues outside the health service that both drive demand and affect our workforce, we do still do all that we can and should do to make sure that we are a good employer, and that we do properly take account of staff well-being at all levels.

Rydym yn mabwysiadu dull eang o weithredu. Ar un llaw, pan edrychwch ar y nod pedwarplyg, mae staff yn un o'r pedair colofn yn y nod pedwarplyg hwnnw. Yn benodol, o ran ochr feddygol y gweithlu, rydym eisoes wedi ymgysylltu â Chymdeithas Feddygol Prydain ar y siarter blinder. Siaradais â’r gymdeithas yn yr wythnosau diwethaf—ac mae’r gwaith hwnnw’n parhau—i geisio sicrhau ein bod yn ymdrin â rhai o’r pwyntiau y mae’r Aelod yn eu codi ynghylch y pwysau anhygoel a’r ymrwymiad y mae ein gweithlu meddygol yn eu hwynebu. Ac oherwydd yr ymrwymiad hwnnw, nid yn unig gan ein gweithlu meddygol, ond gan y gweithlu ehangach, y mae'r gwasanaeth iechyd yn parhau i ddarparu gofal eang a thosturiol o ansawdd. Ond nid ydym yn ei gymryd yn ganiataol. Dyna pam y cawsom y trafodaethau gyda Chymdeithas Feddygol Prydain, a byddwn yn cael y trafodaethau hynny gyda chynrychiolwyr eraill y gweithlu hefyd, oherwydd nid wyf am esgus fod popeth yn berffaith iawn. Gyda'r galwadau ychwanegol a welwn yn wynebu ein system, lle y ceir yr holl broblemau eraill y tu allan i'r gwasanaethau iechyd sy’n ysgogi’r galw ac yn effeithio ar ein gweithlu, yr her i ni yw sut y parhawn i wneud popeth y gallwn ac y dylem ei wneud i sicrhau ein bod yn gyflogwr da, a'n bod yn ystyried lles y staff yn briodol ar bob lefel.

Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Janet Finch-Saunders.

Conservative spokesperson, Janet Finch-Saunders.

Diolch, Llywydd. Deputy Minister, you'll be aware, of course, that Care Inspectorate Wales have the key role for inspecting and taking action to improve the quality and safety of services for the well-being of the people of Wales. Now, according to the chief inspector's annual report 2018-19, 2,499 inspections were undertaken. That is 456 fewer than the year before. There were fewer services regulated also. Now, this decline in regulatory and inspection activity comes despite staff costs having increased by almost £150,000, and the percentage of that budget representing inspection and regulation activity having increased. So, how do you, Deputy Minister, justify the increase in staffing costs, whilst there has actually been a significant fall in the number of inspections, and what steps will you take to reverse the decline?

Diolch, Lywydd. Ddirprwy Weinidog, fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol, wrth gwrs, mai Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru sydd â'r rôl allweddol ar gyfer archwilio a gweithredu i wella ansawdd a diogelwch gwasanaethau er lles pobl Cymru. Nawr, yn ôl adroddiad blynyddol y prif arolygydd ar gyfer 2018-19, cynhaliwyd 2,499 o arolygiadau. Mae hynny 456 yn llai na'r flwyddyn flaenorol. Roedd llai o wasanaethau wedi'u rheoleiddio hefyd. Nawr, daw'r dirywiad hwn yn y gweithgaredd rheoleiddio ac arolygu er bod costau staff wedi cynyddu bron i £150,000, a chanran y gyllideb ar gyfer gweithgaredd arolygu a rheoleiddio wedi cynyddu. Felly, sut ydych chi, Ddirprwy Weinidog, yn cyfiawnhau'r cynnydd yn y costau staffio, er y bu cwymp sylweddol yn nifer yr arolygiadau mewn gwirionedd, a pha gamau y byddwch yn eu cymryd i wrthdroi'r dirywiad?

Well, obviously, the work that CIW does is absolutely crucial. It looks after the standards that are in our care homes in particular, and it's absolutely important that all the inspections they carry out are done to a sufficient depth, and are done in a very considered way. And I think what they are doing is doing very considered inspections, and I have every confidence in them.

Wel, yn amlwg, mae'r gwaith y mae Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru yn ei wneud yn gwbl hanfodol. Mae'n gofalu am y safonau sydd yn ein cartrefi gofal yn benodol, ac mae'n hollbwysig fod yr holl arolygiadau a gynhelir ganddynt yn cael eu gwneud yn ddigon manwl, ac yn cael eu gwneud mewn ffordd ystyriol iawn. Ac rwy'n credu eu bod yn cynnal arolygiadau ystyriol iawn, ac mae gennyf bob hyder ynddynt.

Well, Deputy Minister, thank you for that response, but I have to tell you, here and now, that I do not share your confidence in them currently. According to strategic priority 2, in CIW's strategic plan 2017-20, the organisation is striving to be a great place to work. However, there are serious allegations of bullying and harassment within the organisation, and intense pressure on the inspectors themselves. In fact, I know of an inspector who raised concerns, triggering a so-called investigation. And this is how the senior manager responsible for the investigation responded:

'It has been concluded that, as your grievance focused on the breakdown in relationships between your line manager and senior manager, and as you took the decision to resign from your position as an adult inspector in CIW, that these professional relationships will no longer be present, as you are no longer an employee of CIW and Welsh Government'—

so, you can see the very close-knit comment there, about CIW and Welsh Government—

'therefore, it has been considered that it serves no useful purpose to continue this investigation.'

So, it is alarming that the investigation was abandoned just because the person concerned resigned from CIW. And, technically, being as they themselves—the senior manager—said 'CIW and Welsh Government', technically the buck stops somewhere with Welsh Government. So, I ask you, Deputy Minister, will you commit to undertake an independent investigation into staff treatment, the intense pressures that are burdening them, and also how they actually go about carrying out investigations when somebody has actually been a whistleblower, and brought to their attention concerns about the lack of correct procedure in the carrying out of inspections within a care home establishment?

Wel, Ddirprwy Weinidog, diolch am yr ymateb hwnnw, ond rhaid i mi ddweud wrthych yma nawr nad wyf yn rhannu eich hyder ynddynt ar hyn o bryd. Yn ôl blaenoriaeth strategol 2, yng nghynllun strategol Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru 2017-20, mae'r sefydliad yn ymdrechu i fod yn lle gwych i weithio ynddo. Fodd bynnag, ceir honiadau difrifol o fwlio ac aflonyddu o fewn y sefydliad, a phwysau dwys ar yr arolygwyr eu hunain. Mewn gwirionedd, gwn am arolygydd a fynegodd bryderon, gan sbarduno’r hyn a alwyd yn ymchwiliad. A dyma sut yr ymatebodd yr uwch-reolwr a oedd yng ngofal yr ymchwiliad:

Daethpwyd i'r casgliad, gan fod eich cwyn wedi canolbwyntio ar fethiant y berthynas rhwng eich rheolwr llinell a'ch uwch-reolwr, a chan i chi benderfynu ymddiswyddo o'ch swydd fel arolygydd oedolion yn Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru, na fydd y cysylltiadau proffesiynol hyn yn bodoli mwyach, gan nad ydych bellach yn gyflogai i Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru a Llywodraeth Cymru—

felly gallwch weld y sylw agos iawn yno, am Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru a Llywodraeth Cymru—

gan hynny, daethpwyd i’r casgliad nad yw parhau â’r ymchwiliad hwn yn ateb unrhyw bwrpas defnyddiol.

Mae'n frawychus felly mai’r rheswm dros derfynu’r ymchwiliad oedd oherwydd bod yr unigolyn dan sylw wedi ymddiswyddo o Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru. Ac yn dechnegol, gan eu bod hwy eu hunain—yr uwch-reolwr—wedi dweud 'Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru a Llywodraeth Cymru', mae’r cyfrifoldeb ar Lywodraeth Cymru yn rhywle. Felly gofynnaf i chi, Ddirprwy Weinidog, a wnewch chi ymrwymo i gynnal ymchwiliad annibynnol i driniaeth staff, y pwysau dwys sy'n faich arnynt, a hefyd sut y maent yn mynd ati i gynnal ymchwiliadau pan fydd rhywun wedi bod yn chwythwr chwiban mewn gwirionedd, ac wedi tynnu eu sylw at bryderon ynghylch diffyg gweithdrefn gywir ar gyfer cynnal arolygiadau mewn cartref gofal?

14:35

I can reassure the Member that I have regular meetings with the head of CIW, when we discuss all aspects of CIW's work. Obviously, the job that staff in CIW carry out is a very pressurised job, because they are looking at how our most vulnerable adults are looked after. And they take any evidence of any poor care that they see very, very seriously. And I can assure the Member that, in situations where they've had to intervene—I absolutely accept that they are very stressful situations—they take the job extremely seriously, whistleblowing is taken very seriously, and I can assure you that there is a good relationship between the Welsh Government and CIW, but that they do act independently.

Gallaf sicrhau'r Aelod fy mod yn cael cyfarfodydd rheolaidd gyda phennaeth Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru, pan fyddwn yn trafod pob agwedd ar waith yr arolygiaeth. Yn amlwg, mae'r swydd y mae staff yr arolygiaeth yn ei chyflawni yn swydd anodd iawn, oherwydd eu bod yn edrych ar sut y mae ein hoedolion mwyaf agored i niwed yn cael gofal. Ac maent yn gyfan gwbl o ddifrif ynghylch unrhyw dystiolaeth o ofal gwael a welant. A gallaf sicrhau'r Aelod, mewn sefyllfaoedd lle bu’n rhaid iddynt ymyrryd—rwy'n derbyn yn llwyr eu bod yn sefyllfaoedd llawn straen—maent yn gyfan gwbl o ddifrif ynglŷn â’r gwaith, rhoddir ystyriaeth ddifrifol iawn i achosion o chwythu'r chwiban, a gallaf eich sicrhau bod perthynas dda rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru ac Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru, ond eu bod yn gweithredu'n annibynnol.

Thank you, again, Deputy Minister, but we also know too that there have been some documented articles on the Y Byd ar Bedwar programme about their concerns—CIW—and about their ability to actually carry out robust inspections that do protect our most vulnerable in those situations.

Now, finally, I have reason to believe, from a reliable source, that these internal difficulties are negatively impacting on social care service users too. For example, it has been alleged to me that even though concerns about providers appear on a radar within the organisation, and despite inspectors allegedly flagging this up to managers, some situations can allegedly go ignored for weeks. In fact, one concern raised about a particular establishment—it took six months for the organisation to take any action whatsoever—six months—where it was felt that vulnerable people were potentially put at risk.

Deputy Minister, the fact that such serious concerns about a regulatory body, designed to protect the most vulnerable, have been raised with me, brought to my door, in the way it has been, as an elected Member of this establishment, I would ask that you take these—[Interruption.] Well, it is a Parliament, you're right. So, as an elected Member of this Parliament, I am asking you, Deputy Minister: please, will you consider a review into the fundamental workings of CIW? Will you look to the issues I've raised about allegations of staff bullying, intense pressures? But, more importantly, will you look at CIW, with a view, independently, to look whether it is actually doing what it's intended to do—to protect our most vulnerable? Thank you.

Diolch unwaith eto, Ddirprwy Weinidog, ond rydym hefyd yn gwybod bod rhai erthyglau wedi'u dogfennu ar raglen Y Byd ar Bedwar ynglŷn â’u pryderon—Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru—ac am eu gallu i gynnal arolygiadau trwyadl sy'n amddiffyn y bobl fwyaf agored i niwed yn y sefyllfaoedd hynny.

Nawr, yn olaf, mae gennyf reswm i gredu, o ffynhonnell ddibynadwy, fod yr anawsterau mewnol hyn yn effeithio'n negyddol ar ddefnyddwyr gwasanaethau gofal cymdeithasol hefyd. Er enghraifft, er bod pryderon am ddarparwyr yn ymddangos ar y radar o fewn y sefydliad, ac er gwaethaf y ffaith bod arolygwyr, yn ôl y sôn, yn tynnu sylw rheolwyr at hyn, clywais honiad fod rhai sefyllfaoedd yn cael eu hanwybyddu am wythnosau. Mewn gwirionedd, mynegwyd un pryder ynghylch sefydliad penodol—cymerodd chwe mis i'r sefydliad roi unrhyw gamau ar waith o gwbl—chwe mis—lle teimlwyd y gallai pobl agored i niwed fod wedi wynebu risg.

Ddirprwy Weinidog, yn sgil y ffaith bod pryderon mor ddifrifol am gorff rheoleiddio, a luniwyd i amddiffyn y rhai mwyaf agored i niwed, wedi cael eu dwyn i fy sylw yn y ffordd hon, fel Aelod etholedig o'r sefydliad hwn, hoffwn ofyn i chi gymryd y rhain—[Torri ar draws.] Wel, Senedd ydyw, rydych chi'n iawn. Felly, fel Aelod etholedig o'r Senedd hon, rwy'n gofyn i chi, Ddirprwy Weinidog: os gwelwch yn dda, a wnewch chi ystyried adolygiad i waith sylfaenol Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru? A wnewch chi edrych at y materion a godais ynglŷn â honiadau o fwlio staff, pwysau dwys? Ond yn bwysicach fyth, a wnewch chi edrych ar Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru, gyda golwg ar edrych, yn annibynnol, i weld a yw'n gwneud yr hyn y bwriedir iddi ei wneud mewn gwirionedd—sef amddiffyn ein pobl fwyaf agored i niwed? Diolch.

I would ask the Member, if she has got any very serious concerns about any way that any vulnerable people are being treated, that she should write to me about those individual situations. And it's not possible to respond to 'a reliable source'—it's not possible to respond to those sorts of incidents. And if you have serious concerns, please would you write to me?

Hoffwn ofyn i'r Aelod, os oes ganddi unrhyw bryderon difrifol iawn am y ffordd y mae unrhyw bobl agored i niwed yn cael eu trin, y dylai ysgrifennu ataf am y sefyllfaoedd unigol hynny. Ac nid yw'n bosibl ymateb i 'ffynhonnell ddibynadwy'—nid yw'n bosibl ymateb i'r mathau hynny o ddigwyddiadau. Ac os oes gennych bryderon difrifol, a wnewch chi'n ysgrifennu ataf os gwelwch yn dda?

Llefarydd Plaid Brexit, Caroline Jones.

The Brexit Party spokesperson, Caroline Jones.

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, our NHS buildings are in a bad state of repair, and some are falling down. There is a £0.25 billion backlog of works deemed to pose high or significant risk. Thirteen per cent of the estate is not safety compliant. Of the Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust buildings, only a little over a third of them are deemed to be functionally suitable. Minister, you have committed around £370 million in health capital projects this year—how much of that will be spent ensuring NHS buildings are safe for patients and staff?

Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, mae adeiladau ein GIG mewn cyflwr gwael ac mae rhai ohonynt yn dadfeilio. Ceir ôl-groniad o waith gwerth £0.25 biliwn y bernir ei fod yn achosi risg uchel neu sylweddol. Nid yw 13 y cant o'r ystâd yn cydymffurfio â mesurau diogelwch. O adeiladau Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans Cymru, dim ond ychydig dros draean ohonynt a ystyrir yn addas yn ymarferol. Weinidog, rydych wedi ymrwymo tua £370 miliwn tuag at  brosiectau cyfalaf iechyd eleni—faint ohono a gaiff ei wario ar sicrhau bod adeiladau'r GIG yn ddiogel i gleifion a staff?

14:40

The significant chunk of NHS capital, as the Member will know, has been spent on the creation and completion, which is on time and on budget, of the Grange university hospital. I have already published a range of other statements setting out, for example, our capital programme in primary care. And NHS organisations have discretionary capital to try and undertake their backlog maintenance. So, I recognise the challenges that do exist, but this is part of what health boards themselves need to address within their allocations.

Mae'r talp sylweddol o gyfalaf y GIG, fel y gŵyr yr Aelod, wedi'i wario ar greu a chwblhau Ysbyty Athrofaol Grange, sy'n cael ei wneud o fewn yr amser ac o fewn y gyllideb. Rwyf eisoes wedi cyhoeddi ystod o ddatganiadau eraill sy'n nodi, er enghraifft, ein rhaglen gyfalaf ym maes gofal sylfaenol. Ac mae gan sefydliadau'r GIG gyfalaf yn ôl disgresiwn i geisio cyflawni'r ôl-groniad o waith cynnal a chadw. Felly, rwy'n cydnabod yr heriau sy'n bodoli, ond mae hyn yn rhan o'r hyn y mae angen i fyrddau iechyd eu hunain fynd i'r afael ag ef o fewn eu dyraniadau.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. There is at least a £0.5 billion backlog in building maintenance. I say 'at least' because most local health boards cannot even afford to do the assessments necessary to determine the extent of maintenance issues—maintenance issues that are impacting upon patient care. BBC Wales heard from staff at the University Hospital of Wales who stated that there were infection risks because hospital waste had to be transported in patient lifts. Minister, what is your Government doing to assess the risks to patient safety due to poor maintenance, and what will you do in future years to eliminate the repair backlog, which has been growing year on year?

Diolch i chi am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Ceir gwerth £0.5 biliwn o leiaf o ôl-groniad o waith cynnal a chadw adeiladau. Rwy'n dweud 'o leiaf' oherwydd nad yw'r rhan fwyaf o fyrddau iechyd lleol hyd yn oed yn gallu fforddio gwneud yr asesiadau sy'n angenrheidiol i bennu graddau'r problemau cynnal a chadw—problemau cynnal a chadw sy'n effeithio ar ofal cleifion. Clywodd BBC Cymru gan staff Ysbyty Athrofaol Cymru a ddywedodd fod yna risgiau o ran heintiau oherwydd bod yn rhaid cludo gwastraff ysbytai mewn lifftiau i gleifion. Weinidog, beth y mae eich Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i asesu'r risgiau i ddiogelwch cleifion oherwydd gwaith cynnal a chadw gwael, a beth fyddwch chi'n ei wneud yn y blynyddoedd i ddod i ddileu'r ôl-groniad o waith atgyweirio sydd wedi bod yn cynyddu o flwyddyn i flwyddyn?

Well, the Member mentioned the £370 million figure available and, of that, £80 million is available for health boards and trusts to undertake exactly this sort of maintenance work. It's within their discretionary capital allocation. And it's part of the job of health boards and trusts to properly understand the estate they have and to understand the risks they have. It is, though, the case that, where there have been immediate issues, for example the immediate collapse of a roof in a facility in Wrexham within the last financial year, the Welsh Government provided additional assistance to make sure that alternate facilities were available while the health board planned to properly replace that facility that had a significant impact on endoscopy capacity on the site. So, the Government gets alongside health boards when we can and should do, but this is part of the job that they have to do in properly managing and running the estate of the national health service.

Wel, crybwyllodd yr Aelod y ffigur o £370 miliwn sydd ar gael ac o hwnnw, mae £80 miliwn ar gael i fyrddau ac ymddiriedolaethau iechyd wneud yn union y math hwn o waith cynnal a chadw. Mae o fewn eu dyraniad cyfalaf yn ôl disgresiwn. Ac mae deall yr ystâd sydd ganddynt a deall y risgiau sydd ganddynt yn iawn yn rhan o waith byrddau ac ymddiriedolaethau iechyd. Mae'n wir, fodd bynnag, lle bu problemau uniongyrchol, er enghraifft y to a gwympodd yn ddirybudd mewn cyfleuster yn Wrecsam o fewn y flwyddyn ariannol ddiwethaf, fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi darparu cymorth ychwanegol i wneud yn siŵr fod cyfleusterau eraill ar gael tra bod y bwrdd iechyd yn cynllunio i adeiladu cyfleuster newydd priodol, gan effeithio'n sylweddol ar gapasiti endosgopi ar y safle. Felly, mae'r Llywodraeth yn cynorthwyo byrddau iechyd pan allwn a phan ddylem wneud hynny, ond mae hyn yn rhan o'r gwaith y mae'n rhaid iddynt ei wneud o ran rheoli a rhedeg ystâd y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yn briodol.

Cadw Staff yn y GIG yng Nghymru
Staff Retention in the Welsh NHS

3. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gadw staff yn y GIG yng Nghymru? OAQ54384

3. Will the Minister make a statement on staff retention in the Welsh NHS? OAQ54384

Yes. Recruitment and retention is a priority for the Welsh Government and the national health service. Health boards and trusts are leading on initiatives to improve retention, such as return to practice and improving staff well-being. The Welsh Government has also put in place a range of measures to increase the supply of healthcare professionals.

Gwnaf. Mae recriwtio a chadw staff yn flaenoriaeth i Lywodraeth Cymru a'r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Mae byrddau ac ymddiriedolaethau iechyd yn arwain mentrau i wella lefelau cadw staff, megis dychwelyd i weithio a gwella lles staff. Hefyd, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi rhoi amrywiaeth o fesurau ar waith i gynyddu'r cyflenwad o weithwyr gofal iechyd proffesiynol.

Thank you, Minister. Through written Assembly questions, I have unearthed an alarming fact about the number of nurses in Wales: 4,727 have left the Welsh NHS since 2016/17. And get this: in 2018/19, there were more leavers than joiners. We need more registered nurses to deliver care, and as the Royal College of Nursing in Wales has advised, this requires a focus on both recruitment and addressing retention. As it stands, however, increasing recruitment is not sustainable without improving retention rates. So, Minister, will you commit to investigating why there is such a high number of leavers in Wales, and will you develop an NHS workforce strategy that is focused on providing safe working conditions and more flexible working to actually help our hardworking nurses across Wales?

Diolch, Weinidog. Drwy gwestiynau ysgrifenedig y Cynulliad, deuthum ar draws ffaith frawychus am nifer y nyrsys yng Nghymru: mae 4,727 wedi gadael GIG Cymru ers 2016/17. A gwrandewch: yn 2018/19, roedd mwy o staff yn gadael nag a oedd yn ymuno â'r gwasanaeth. Mae arnom angen mwy o nyrsys cofrestredig i ddarparu gofal, ac fel y mae Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol Cymru wedi'i ddweud, mae hyn yn gofyn am ganolbwyntio ar recriwtio a mynd i'r afael â chadw staff. Ar hyn o bryd, fodd bynnag, nid yw recriwtio cynyddol yn gynaliadwy heb wella cyfraddau cadw staff. Felly, Weinidog, a wnewch chi ymrwymo i ymchwilio i weld pam y mae cynifer o staff yn gadael y gwasanaeth yng Nghymru, ac a wnewch chi ddatblygu strategaeth ar gyfer gweithlu'r GIG sy'n canolbwyntio ar ddarparu amodau gwaith diogel a gweithio mwy hyblyg i helpu ein nyrsys gweithgar ledled Cymru?

The Member may have picked up and forgotten, when reading out her supplementary question, that we talked about the NHS workforce strategy in response to two questions earlier on today. I recognise that, last year, the last year for which we have figures, there were 65 more leavers than joiners in terms of the nursing workforce; that is in contrast to a steady trend of increases in nursing numbers. Between 2009-18, nursing numbers have gone up by 3.8 per cent in total. The Member reflects figures of people who have left the service, but, of course, we are recruiting each year as well. The Member will also know that we have regularly rehearsed within this Chamber the work that we are doing on looking to recruit further nurses. The ‘Train. Work. Live.’ campaign has been successful. In fact, the Royal College of Nursing themselves have been complimentary about that particular campaign. It's also a matter of fact that, in the last five years, we've increased nurse training places by 68 per cent in Wales. So, we are doing all that we can and should do to increase the number of nurses coming into the profession, as with, indeed, the work that we are doing—the Member referred to some of it—on making sure we have more flexible patterns that reflect the reality of someone's work to try to make sure that we retain the nurses that we currently have as well. The big factor, of course, that will affect some of our ability to recruit nurses in the future is our continuing relationship with Europe, where we still recruit and have a number of European Union and wider economic area nurses within the NHS family.

Efallai fod yr Aelod wedi nodi ac wedi anghofio, wrth ddarllen ei chwestiwn atodol, ein bod wedi siarad am strategaeth ar gyfer gweithlu'r GIG mewn ymateb i ddau gwestiwn yn gynharach heddiw. Rwy'n cydnabod, y llynedd, y flwyddyn ddiwethaf y mae gennym ffigurau ar ei chyfer, fod 65 yn fwy wedi gadael y gweithlu nyrsio nag a ymunodd â'r gweithlu hwnnw; mae hynny'n gwrthgyferbynnu â thuedd gyson o gynnydd yn nifer y nyrsys. Rhwng 2009-18, cododd nifer y nyrsys 3.8 y cant i gyd. Mae'r Aelod yn cyfeirio at ffigurau'r bobl sydd wedi gadael y gwasanaeth, ond wrth gwrs, rydym yn recriwtio bob blwyddyn hefyd. Bydd yr Aelod hefyd yn gwybod ein bod wedi trafod yn rheolaidd yn y Siambr hon y gwaith a wnawn ar geisio recriwtio rhagor o nyrsys. Mae'r ymgyrch 'Hyfforddi Gweithio Byw' wedi bod yn llwyddiannus. A dweud y gwir, mae'r Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol ei hun wedi canmol yr ymgyrch benodol honno. Mae hefyd yn ffaith ein bod, yn y pum mlynedd diwethaf, wedi cynyddu nifer y lleoedd hyfforddi i nyrsys 68 y cant yng Nghymru. Felly, rydym yn gwneud popeth y gallwn ac y dylem ei wneud i gynyddu nifer y nyrsys sy'n dod i'r proffesiwn, fel yn wir, gyda'r gwaith a wnawn—cyfeiriodd yr Aelod at rywfaint ohono—ar sicrhau bod gennym batrymau mwy hyblyg sy'n adlewyrchu realiti gwaith rhywun i geisio gwneud yn siŵr ein bod yn cadw'r nyrsys sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd hefyd. Y ffactor mawr, wrth gwrs, a fydd yn effeithio ar beth o'n gallu i recriwtio nyrsys yn y dyfodol yw parhad ein perthynas ag Ewrop, lle rydym yn dal i recriwtio a chyflogi nifer o nyrsys o’r Undeb Ewropeaidd a’r ardal economaidd ehangach o fewn teulu'r GIG.

14:45

Minister, I'm very pleased to hear the answer you've just given and the efforts the Welsh Government are putting into developing and training more nurses across the area. I speak to nurses—it's not just nurses, but other professionals across the health service—and I want to praise the work that they do, because many of them, if not all of them, go above and beyond their normal working conditions and actually put a lot of effort in, but it takes a toll on the nurses and other staff. They get to a point where they just can't take any more, and they have to, therefore, look to get out early.

You've talked about flexible working. I've raised this with my own health board on occasion. Will you look at opportunities, because some of the nurses who are leaving and going to agencies do it because they want to have greater control over the hours they work? They want to have the ability to have, actually, a better work-life balance with their families. Therefore, will you look at the flexibility of working contracts so that nurses can, actually, have that within the NHS, without having to go to an agency to have that work-life balance that makes the difference to them? It shows that they are cared for and they are well respected by the system, not just by the patients.

Weinidog, rwy'n falch iawn o glywed yr ateb rydych chi newydd ei roi, a'r ymdrechion y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu gwneud i ddatblygu a hyfforddi mwy o nyrsys ledled yr ardal. Rwy’n siarad â nyrsys—nid nyrsys yn unig, ond gweithwyr proffesiynol eraill ar draws y gwasanaeth iechyd—ac rwyf am ganmol y gwaith a wnânt, oherwydd mae llawer ohonynt, os nad pob un ohonynt, yn mynd y tu hwnt i'w hamodau gwaith arferol ac yn ymdrechu’n galed mewn gwirionedd, ond mae'n dreth ar y nyrsys a staff eraill. Maent yn cyrraedd pwynt lle na allant gymryd mwy, ac felly mae'n rhaid iddynt geisio gadael yn gynnar.

Rydych chi wedi siarad am weithio'n hyblyg. Rwyf wedi codi hyn gyda fy mwrdd iechyd fy hun ar fwy nag un achlysur. A wnewch chi edrych ar gyfleoedd, oherwydd mae rhai o'r nyrsys sy'n gadael ac yn mynd i asiantaethau yn ei wneud oherwydd eu bod eisiau mwy o reolaeth dros yr oriau y maent yn eu gweithio? Maent eisiau’r gallu i gael gwell cydbwysedd rhwng bywyd a gwaith gyda'u teuluoedd. Felly, a wnewch chi edrych ar hyblygrwydd contractau gwaith fel y gall nyrsys gael hynny o fewn y GIG, heb orfod mynd at asiantaeth i gael y cydbwysedd rhwng bywyd a gwaith sy'n gwneud gwahaniaeth iddynt? Mae'n dangos eu bod yn cael gofal a pharch gan y system, nid gan y cleifion yn unig.

I recognise the points that the Member makes. This is something at different points in the training cycle of members of national health service staff, but also when they're at different points in their working life. That's why it's been important for me to retain the NHS bursary. We've seen the impact of removing the bursary in England, where, in particular, it's had a catastrophic impact on recruiting learning disability nurses, who are often more likely to be mature nurses.

There's also the point about that flexible working pattern that'll be important at various different points in someone's life, whether it's about caring responsibilities for adults or children, or, actually, just people wanting to be in a different stage of their life towards the end of their career as well, because we do rely on staff goodwill to provide the service

So, yes, that is part of what we are looking at, not just about the future and into the distance, but it's part of what health boards are already trying to address today. But it goes back to one of the points that I made to Dai Lloyd about our ability to make the system-wide reform that we think we could and should do, and how quickly we're able to do it, because this is a priority in the here and now, and not just in two or three years' time.

Rwy'n cydnabod y pwyntiau y mae'r Aelod yn eu gwneud. Mae hyn yn rhywbeth sydd ar wahanol bwyntiau yng nghylch hyfforddi aelodau o staff y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, ond hefyd pan fyddant ar wahanol bwyntiau yn eu bywyd gwaith. Dyna pam ei bod hi wedi bod yn bwysig i mi gadw bwrsariaeth y GIG. Gwelsom effaith cael gwared ar y fwrsariaeth yn Lloegr, lle y cafodd effaith drychinebus ar recriwtio nyrsys anableddau dysgu yn benodol, sy'n aml yn fwy tebygol o fod yn nyrsys aeddfed.

Mae yna bwynt hefyd am y patrwm gweithio hyblyg a fydd yn bwysig ar wahanol bwyntiau gwahanol ym mywyd rhywun, boed yn ymwneud â chyfrifoldebau gofalu am oedolion neu blant, neu fod pobl eisiau bod ar gam gwahanol o'u bywydau tuag at ddiwedd eu gyrfa hefyd, oherwydd rydym yn dibynnu ar ewyllys da'r staff i ddarparu'r gwasanaeth

Felly, ydy, mae hynny'n rhan o'r hyn yr ydym yn ei ystyried, nid ar gyfer y dyfodol pell yn unig, ond mae'n rhan o'r hyn y mae byrddau iechyd eisoes yn ceisio mynd i'r afael ag ef heddiw. Ond mae'n mynd yn ôl at un o'r pwyntiau a wneuthum i Dai Lloyd am ein gallu i ddiwygio'r system gyfan fel y credwn y gallem ac y dylem ei wneud, a pha mor gyflym y gallwn ei wneud, gan fod hon yn flaenoriaeth yn awr, ac nid mewn dwy neu dair blynedd yn unig.

Cyfraddau Marwolaethau oherwydd Canser
Cancer Mortality Rates

4. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyfraddau marwolaethau oherwydd canser yng ngogledd Cymru? OAQ54387

4. Will the Minister make a statement on cancer mortality rates in north Wales? OAQ54387

Yes. Cancer mortality is improving across Wales, including the north. The European age-standardised mortality rate for cancer in north Wales has fallen from 348.3 in every 100,000 in 2001 to 276 by 2017. That represents a 21 per cent fall over 17 years.

Gwnaf. Mae cyfraddau marwolaethau oherwydd canser yn gwella ledled Cymru, gan gynnwys yn y gogledd. Mae'r gyfradd safonedig Ewropeaidd o farwolaethau yn ôl oed ar gyfer canser yng ngogledd Cymru wedi gostwng o 348.3 ym mhob 100,000 yn 2001 i 276 erbyn 2017. Mae hwnnw'n ostyngiad o 21 y cant dros 17 mlynedd.

Those statistics are very welcome indeed, but, unfortunately, as the Minister will know, we're still well behind other countries in terms of our five-year survival rates. In fact, for bowel cancer, we're twenty-fifth out of 29 countries in Europe for that five-year survival rate. You will know that catching cancer early is critical to people's opportunities for survival. Cancer Research UK have indicated that you're three times more likely to survive your cancer if you're diagnosed at stage 1 or 2, rather than stage 3 or 4.

So, in order to drive that improvement in mortality, we clearly need to address some of the issues that we face in the diagnostic workforce. We know, for example, that there are shortages of radiographers, of consultants and of specialist endoscopy nurses in Wales. Can you tell us what specific action the Welsh Government is taking to address the shortage in the workforce in order that we can drive up this early diagnosis to improve those mortality rates and move us from the bottom of some of those European league tables right to the top? 

Mae'r ystadegau hynny i'w croesawu'n fawr, ond yn anffodus, fel y gŵyr y Gweinidog, rydym yn dal ymhell y tu ôl i wledydd eraill o ran ein cyfraddau goroesi pum mlynedd. Mewn gwirionedd, ar gyfer canser y coluddyn, rydym yn bumed ar hugain allan o 29 o wledydd yn Ewrop o ran y gyfradd oroesi pum mlynedd. Fe fyddwch yn gwybod bod dal canser yn gynnar yn hollbwysig i obaith pobl o oroesi. Mae Cancer Research UK wedi nodi eich bod dair gwaith yn fwy tebygol o oroesi eich canser os ydych yn cael diagnosis yng ngham 1 neu 2, yn hytrach na cham 3 neu 4.

Felly, er mwyn hybu'r gwelliant yn y gyfradd farwolaethau, mae'n amlwg fod angen inni fynd i'r afael â rhai o'r problemau a wynebwn yn y gweithlu diagnostig. Gwyddom, er enghraifft, fod prinder radiograffwyr, meddygon ymgynghorol a nyrsys endosgopi arbenigol yng Nghymru. A allwch ddweud wrthym pa gamau penodol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i fynd i'r afael â'r prinder yn y gweithlu er mwyn inni allu hybu lefelau diagnosis cynnar i wella'r cyfraddau marwolaethau a'n symud o'r gwaelod i frig rhai o'r rhestrau Ewropeaidd hyn?

I think it's broadly the same question that John Griffiths asked earlier on, because we are, of course—. I referred to it earlier—the response to the committee's report on endoscopy. It notes the action that we are taking and need to take on widening the workforce. I've met a number of staff who are taking part in the work of the endoscopy board about the work that they want to do. Using your point here about prudent healthcare—do only what only you can do—means that doctors, who have almost been the exclusive workforce in this area in the past, should be less and less undertaking those procedures. There are more and more nurse endoscopists and others that we need to train.

Actually, within the leadership of the profession, there's a recognition that that's what we should have—we need to plan to do so. It's the same in terms of our imaging professionals as well. That's why the imaging academy is so important to us. So, there are specific steps that we are taking. We expect to see more of them in the workforce strategy when that comes out. You can also see us making investment choices to support that strategy not just in this year's budget, but in the future.  

Rwy'n credu mai'r un cwestiwn yn fras a ofynnodd John Griffiths yn gynharach, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, rydym—. Cyfeiriais ato gynnau—yr ymateb i adroddiad y pwyllgor ar endosgopi. Mae'n nodi'r camau yr ydym yn eu cymryd ac y mae angen inni eu cymryd ar gyfer ehangu'r gweithlu. Rwyf wedi cyfarfod â nifer o staff sy'n cymryd rhan yng ngwaith y bwrdd endosgopi ynglŷn â'r gwaith y maent am ei wneud. Mae defnyddio'ch pwynt yma am ofal iechyd darbodus—gwneud yr hyn y gallwch ei wneud yn unig—yn golygu y dylai meddygon, sef yr unig weithlu, fwy neu lai, a oedd yn ymgymryd â'r maes yn y gorffennol, fod yn gwneud llai a llai o'r triniaethau hynny. Mae angen inni hyfforddi mwy a mwy o endosgopyddion nyrsio ac eraill.

Mewn gwirionedd, o fewn arweinyddiaeth y proffesiwn, ceir cydnabyddiaeth mai dyna y dylem ei gael—mae angen i ni gynllunio i wneud hynny. Mae'r un peth yn wir am ein gweithwyr proffesiynol ym maes delweddu hefyd. Dyna pam y mae'r academi ddelweddu mor bwysig i ni. Felly, mae camau penodol ar y gweill gennym. Rydym yn disgwyl gweld mwy ohonynt yn strategaeth y gweithlu pan ddaw honno. Gallwch hefyd ein gweld yn gwneud dewisiadau buddsoddi i gefnogi'r strategaeth honno, nid yn unig yn y gyllideb ar gyfer eleni, ond yn y dyfodol.

14:50
Cyfraddau Dibyniaeth ar Gyffuriau ac Alcohol
Drug and Alcohol Dependency Rates

5. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyfraddau dibyniaeth ar gyffuriau ac alcohol yng Nghymru? OAQ54393

5. Will the Minister make a statement on drug and alcohol dependency rates in Wales? OAQ54393

I'd like to start by congratulating Jayne Bryant and, in particular, Mr Bryant for his excellent choice, and wish you all the best for the future.

There were between 42,000 and 58,500 problematic drug users in 2015-16. According to the national survey for Wales for the year later, there were 81,392 harmful drinkers. I should make clear that harmful drinkers are defined as men drinking over 50 units a week and women drinking over 35 units a week for women, but not all harmful drinkers are dependent.

Hoffwn ddechrau drwy longyfarch Jayne Bryant, ac yn arbennig, Mr Bryant, ar ei ddewis rhagorol, a dymuno'r gorau i chi ar gyfer y dyfodol.

Roedd rhwng 42,000 a 58,500 o bobl yn defnyddio cyffuriau mewn ffordd broblemus yn 2015-16. Yn ôl arolwg cenedlaethol Cymru ar gyfer y flwyddyn wedyn, roedd yna 81,392 o yfwyr niweidiol. Dylwn egluro mai'r diffiniad o yfwyr niweidiol yw dynion sy'n yfed dros 50 uned yr wythnos a menywod sy'n yfed dros 35 uned yr wythnos, ond nid yw pob yfwr niweidiol yn ddibynnol ar alcohol.

Thank you, Minister, for all of that answer. [Laughter.]

I visited, along with my colleague John Griffiths, last week, the Kaleidoscope project and the Gwent drug and alcohol service in Newport. GDAS is a single integrated service providing substance misuse services in Gwent. Sadly, they've seen a big spike in referrals and an increase in older people with alcohol dependency. While every preventable death is one too many, according to the Office for National Statistics' latest figures, the number of deaths related to drug misuse in the Gwent local authority areas are among the lowest in Wales. GDAS treatment programmes are set up for recovery. They ensure that people are able to access substitute prescribing in a time frame that's appropriate to their presenting need. Would the Minister join me in praising the work that GDAS does and look at how we can share this work across other parts of Wales?

Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw i gyd, Weinidog. [Chwerthin.]

Gyda fy nghyd-Aelod John Griffiths, ymwelais â phrosiect Kaleidoscope a gwasanaeth cyffuriau ac alcohol Gwent yng Nghasnewydd yr wythnos diwethaf. Un gwasanaeth integredig sy'n darparu gwasanaethau camddefnyddio sylweddau yng Ngwent yw GDAS. Yn anffodus, maent wedi gweld cynnydd mawr mewn atgyfeiriadau a chynnydd yn nifer y bobl hŷn sy'n ddibynnol ar alcohol. Er bod pob marwolaeth y gellir ei hosgoi yn un yn ormod, yn ôl ffigurau diweddaraf y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol, mae nifer y marwolaethau sy'n gysylltiedig â chamddefnyddio cyffuriau yn ardaloedd awdurdodau lleol Gwent ymhlith yr isaf yng Nghymru. Sefydlwyd rhaglenni triniaeth GDAS ar gyfer adferiad. Maent yn sicrhau bod pobl yn gallu cael mynediad at bresgripsiynau cyfnewid o fewn ffrâm amser sy'n briodol i'w hangen. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ymuno â mi i ganmol y gwaith y mae GDAS yn ei wneud ac edrych ar sut y gallwn rannu'r gwaith hwn ar draws rhannau eraill o Gymru?

Yes, absolutely. I've visited Kaleidoscope myself during my time in ministerial office to see directly some of the work they do on a range of areas, including image-enhancing drugs and a range of different dependencies and challenges that people face. It's part of our approach in bringing together the third sector with statutory bodies in area planning boards to understand the local intelligence that needs to exist, and then to make investment choices accordingly. So, they're not made centrally by the Welsh Government, but we've actually increased the budget available to area planning boards to provide front-line services. So, yes, it is a good example of a model that works. It's a good example also of the continuing need coming into those services, and we need to continually review our capacity to further support front-line work as well, of course, as the demand and the reasons for that demand coming into our services.  

Yn sicr. Rwyf wedi ymweld â Kaleidoscope fy hun yn ystod fy amser yn y swydd fel Gweinidog i weld drosof fy hun rywfaint o'r gwaith y maent yn ei wneud ar amrywiaeth o feysydd, gan gynnwys cyffuriau sy'n gwella delwedd ac amrywiaeth o wahanol fathau o ddibyniaeth a heriau y mae pobl yn eu hwynebu. Mae'n rhan o'n dull o ddod â'r trydydd sector a chyrff statudol at ei gilydd mewn byrddau cynllunio ardal i ddeall pa wybodaeth leol sydd ei hangen, ac yna i wneud dewisiadau buddsoddi yn unol â hynny. Felly, ni chânt eu gwneud yn ganolog gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ond mewn gwirionedd rydym wedi cynyddu'r gyllideb sydd ar gael i fyrddau cynllunio ardal er mwyn darparu gwasanaethau rheng flaen. Felly, ydy, mae'n enghraifft dda o fodel sy'n gweithio. Mae'n enghraifft dda hefyd o'r angen parhaus yn y gwasanaethau hynny, ac mae angen i ni adolygu'n barhaus ein gallu i gefnogi gwaith rheng flaen ymhellach, yn ogystal, wrth gwrs, â'r galw a'r rhesymau dros y galw hwnnw sy'n wynebu ein gwasanaethau.

Minister, according to Public Health Wales, drug-related deaths in Wales are at their highest levels. They report that the number of people dying from drug poisoning has increased by 78 per cent in just the last 10 years. They also say that there has been a rise in the number of young people dying from substances such as cocaine. Given that seeking early support can prevent the escalation of the problem and dependency, Minister, what action will you take to tackle the problem of drug dependency in Wales in the light of these disturbing findings? 

Weinidog, yn ôl Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru, mae marwolaethau sy'n gysylltiedig â chyffuriau yng Nghymru ar eu lefelau uchaf. Maent yn dweud bod nifer y bobl sy'n marw o wenwyn cyffuriau wedi cynyddu 78 y cant yn y 10 mlynedd diwethaf yn unig. Dywedant hefyd y bu cynnydd yn nifer y bobl ifanc sy'n marw o sylweddau fel cocên. O gofio y gall gofyn am gymorth yn gynnar atal y broblem a'r ddibyniaeth rhag gwaethygu, Weinidog, pa gamau y byddwch yn eu cymryd i fynd i'r afael â phroblem dibyniaeth ar gyffuriau yng Nghymru yng ngoleuni'r canfyddiadau brawychus hyn?

Again, that's why we're investing more in our front-line services not just at the treatment end, but in programmes together with other partners—the police are obvious partners in this area—on actually trying to intervene at an early point. There's no easy answer, though, because, of course, many of the reasons why people become drug and alcohol dependent are outside the health service. So, the challenge isn't just one for the health service in that earlier intervention and prevention, and it's certainly not just an education challenge; it is the broader stresses and strains that people are under, and it's how we actually address some of those. That includes, for example, the new substances that are appearing on a regular basis on the streets. 

So, there's a wide programme of work. It's about working with partners on the prevention message, as well as having a more effective response when people do need treatment. In that respect, our substance misuse programmes do show that you are more likely to receive specialist treatment and support in Wales than in England. In fact, King's College London in July of this year estimated that you're 2.5 more times likely to receive that specialist health and support and also receive it more quickly.  

Unwaith eto, dyna pam ein bod yn buddsoddi mwy yn ein gwasanaethau rheng flaen, nid yn y pen triniaeth yn unig, ond mewn rhaglenni ar y cyd â phartneriaid eraill—mae'r heddlu'n bartneriaid amlwg yn y maes hwn—o ran ceisio ymyrryd yn gynnar. Ni cheir ateb hawdd, fodd bynnag, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, mae llawer o'r rhesymau pam fod pobl yn ddibynnol ar gyffuriau ac alcohol y tu allan i gyrhaeddiad y gwasanaeth iechyd. Felly, nid yw'r her yn un i'r gwasanaeth iechyd yn unig o ran yr ymyrraeth a'r gwaith atal cynharach hwnnw, ac yn sicr, nid her addysg yn unig ydyw; mae'n ymwneud â'r pwysau a'r straen ehangach sydd ar bobl, a sut yr awn i'r afael â rhai o'r rheini. Mae hynny'n cynnwys, er enghraifft, y sylweddau newydd sy'n ymddangos yn rheolaidd ar y strydoedd.

Felly, mae yna raglen waith eang. Mae'n ymwneud â gweithio gyda phartneriaid ar y neges atal, yn ogystal â chael ymateb mwy effeithiol pan fydd pobl angen triniaeth. Yn hynny o beth, mae ein rhaglenni camddefnyddio sylweddau yn dangos eich bod yn fwy tebygol o gael triniaeth a chymorth arbenigol yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr. Mewn gwirionedd, amcangyfrifodd Coleg y Brenin, Llundain ym mis Gorffennaf eleni eich bod 2.5 yn fwy tebygol o gael y cymorth iechyd arbenigol hwnnw a'i gael yn gyflymach hefyd.

Gwasanaeth Profi a Thrin Dolur Gwddf
Sore Throat Test-and-treat Service

6. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyflwyno'r gwasanaeth profi a thrin dolur gwddf? OAQ54359

6. Will the Minister make a statement on the roll-out of the sore throat test-and-treat service? OAQ54359

Yes. Since the sore throat test-and-treat pilot started with 58 pharmacies in November last year, there have been 3,655 consultations recorded. Antibiotics were prescribed in only 752 cases, or 21 per cent. I'm delighted that the sore throat treat-and-test pilot won the innovation and technology category at the 2019 Antibiotic Guardian awards this year. This demonstrates Wales is at the forefront of innovation and investment in community pharmacy.

Gwnaf. Ers i'r peilot profi a thrin dolur gwddf ddechrau gyda 58 o fferyllfeydd ym mis Tachwedd y llynedd, cofnodwyd 3,655 o ymgynghoriadau. Dim ond mewn 752 o achosion y cafodd gwrthfiotigau eu presgripsiynu, neu 21 y cant. Rwyf wrth fy modd fod y peilot profi a thrin dolur gwddf wedi ennill y categori arloesedd a thechnoleg yng Ngwobrau Gwarcheidwaid Gwrthfiotig 2019 eleni. Mae hyn yn dangos bod Cymru ar flaen y gad o ran arloesi a buddsoddi mewn fferylliaeth gymunedol.

14:55

Thank you, Minister, for your response, and, just like my colleague Vikki Howells mentioned during business yesterday, I too have visited some excellent community pharmacies within my constituency of Alun and Deeside, and there's been some great work there taking place in taking forward and rolling out the innovative sore throat test-and-treat service.

Now, when I met staff recently, they highlighted two specific issues that I wish and, I think, appropriately today, you could address for us, Minister, given the fact that it is World Pharmacists Day. Firstly, on the issue of training, there is a concern that although this roll-out is going to be a vital part in dealing with the winter pressures, community pharmacists won't actually be trained until the new year. Minister, what is the Government doing to get them trained quicker so that people can experience the full benefits of the test?

Finally, Minister, on the roll-out in general, I'm really proud that Betsi has the highest level of roll-out, which is a great story for the health board but also for the people in north Wales. The tests have led to, as you mentioned, an 80 per cent reduction in the use of antibiotics, and has had roughly a 95 per cent positive patient response, including one of my constituents, Molly, who actually came up to me in the street and mentioned the test and recommended the test to me. So, it is a great way forward for Wales, but what's important is that it benefits everyone in Wales. So, Minister, what is the Government doing to get more consistency and less variability in the roll-out between health boards right across Wales?

Diolch i chi am eich ymateb, Weinidog, ac fel y soniodd fy nghyd-Aelod, Vikki Howells, yn ystod y cwestiynau ddoe, rwyf innau hefyd wedi ymweld â fferyllfeydd cymunedol rhagorol yn fy etholaeth i, sef Alun a Glannau Dyfrdwy, ac mae gwaith gwych wedi'i wneud yno ar ddatblygu a chyflwyno'r gwasanaeth profi a thrin dolur gwddw arloesol.

Nawr, pan gyfarfûm â staff yn ddiweddar, nodwyd dau fater penodol yr hoffwn i chi roi sylw iddynt, yn briodol heddiw, rwy'n credu, Weinidog, o gofio ei bod yn Ddiwrnod Fferyllwyr y Byd. Yn gyntaf, ar fater hyfforddiant, er y bydd cyflwyno'r rhaglen yn rhan hanfodol o'r gwaith o ymdopi â phwysau'r gaeaf, mae yna bryder na fydd fferyllwyr cymunedol yn cael eu hyfforddi mewn gwirionedd tan y flwyddyn newydd. Weinidog, beth y mae'r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i sicrhau eu bod yn cael eu hyfforddi'n gyflymach fel y gall pobl brofi manteision llawn y prawf?

Yn olaf, Weinidog, o ran cyflwyno'r rhaglen yn gyffredinol, rwy'n falch iawn mai Betsi Cadwaladr sydd wedi cyflwyno'r lefel uchaf o'r gwasanaeth hwn, sy'n stori wych i'r bwrdd iechyd ond hefyd i bobl yng ngogledd Cymru. Mae'r profion wedi arwain, fel y sonioch chi, at ostyngiad o 80 y cant yn y defnydd o wrthfiotigau, ac wedi cael ymateb cadarnhaol o 95 y cant yn fras gan gleifion, gan gynnwys un o fy etholwyr, Molly, a ddaeth ataf ar y stryd ac a grybwyllodd y prawf gan ei argymell i mi. Felly, mae'n ffordd wych ymlaen i Gymru, ond yr hyn sy'n bwysig yw ei fod o fudd i bawb yng Nghymru. Felly, Weinidog, beth y mae'r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i gael mwy o gysondeb a llai o amrywioldeb o ran y modd y caiff y rhaglen ei chyflwyno gan fyrddau iechyd ledled Cymru?

Thank you for the question and the points made. I was aware that your neighbour in the Chamber had raised a similar issue in business questions yesterday. I will provide a written statement, setting out some more of the detail on what we're doing on rolling out this service, but it's worth addressing your point about training as well. I've invested £4.5 million in the future training of pharmacists to ensure we have a sustainable workforce, and that will carry on for the next few years and will nearly double the number of pharmacy training places in Wales.

We've already invested, in the last few years of the pharmacy contract, sums of money in investing in the workforce that we have in the here and now. Because the plan for the roll-out of the sore throat see-and-treat test is that we expect 50 per cent of community pharmacies across Wales to be able to provide that through the winter. And it's not just a winter pressures initiative; it is actually a part of the standard range of services we expect to see provided in community pharmacy locations. These are convenient locations, well-founded within communities, with trusted professionals who have relationships with people, so you will see more investment in the future of community pharmacies. This is just but one example. I'll happily provide the written statement that the Trefnydd had committed me to, and I'll be able to provide the details I think you and your fellow Members will be looking for.

Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn a'r pwyntiau a wnaethoch. Roeddwn yn ymwybodol fod eich cymydog yn y Siambr wedi codi mater tebyg mewn cwestiynau busnes ddoe. Byddaf yn darparu datganiad ysgrifenedig, gan nodi rhagor o'r manylion am yr hyn a wnawn ar gyflwyno'r gwasanaeth hwn, ond mae'n werth rhoi sylw i'ch pwynt am hyfforddiant hefyd. Rwyf wedi buddsoddi £4.5 miliwn yn y gwaith o hyfforddi fferyllwyr yn y dyfodol i sicrhau bod gennym weithlu cynaliadwy, a bydd hynny'n parhau dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd nesaf gan arwain at bron i ddwywaith nifer y lleoedd hyfforddiant fferyllol yng Nghymru.

Yn ystod blynyddoedd diwethaf y contract fferylliaeth, rydym eisoes wedi buddsoddi symiau o arian yn y gweithlu sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd. Y cynllun ar gyfer cyflwyno'r prawf gweld a thrin dolur gwddw yw ein bod yn disgwyl i 50 y cant o fferyllfeydd cymunedol ledled Cymru allu darparu hynny drwy'r gaeaf. Ac nid menter pwysau'r gaeaf yn unig ydyw; mewn gwirionedd, mae'n rhan o r ystod safonol o wasanaethau y disgwyliwn eu gweld yn cael eu darparu mewn fferyllfeydd cymunedol. Mae'r rhain yn lleoliadau cyfleus, wedi'u sefydlu'n dda o fewn cymunedau, gyda gweithwyr proffesiynol dibynadwy sydd â pherthynas â phobl, felly byddwch yn gweld mwy o fuddsoddi yn nyfodol fferyllfeydd cymunedol. Un enghraifft yn unig yw hyn. Rwy'n falch o ddarparu'r datganiad ysgrifenedig y gofynnodd y Trefnydd i mi ei lunio, a byddaf yn gallu rhoi'r manylion y credaf eich bod chi a'ch cyd-Aelodau yn chwilio amdanynt.

I'm genuinely pleased on those occasions when even opposition Members should commend an action of the Welsh Government, and I do think this is a good scheme. I notice in the August edition of 'Clinical Pharmacist' the scheme is evaluated and praised and it does bring genuine innovation and relief. For many years, we've been trying to get people with minor ailments to seek the advice of a pharmacist—lower back pain, insomnia. There are a whole range of things where your first point of contact is often a pharmacist. So, I do hope that we will be seeing that continue. But it is a very promising scheme, so I do commend it.

Rwy'n hapus iawn ar yr achlysuron pan fydd hyd yn oed Aelodau'r gwrthbleidiau'n cymeradwyo gweithred gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ac rwy'n credu bod hwn yn gynllun da. Sylwaf yn rhifyn mis Awst o 'Clinical Pharmacist' fod y cynllun yn cael ei werthuso a'i ganmol ac mae'n enghraifft o arloesedd a gwellhad go iawn. Ers blynyddoedd lawer, rydym wedi bod yn ceisio cael pobl â mân anhwylderau i geisio cyngor fferyllydd—poen gwaelod y cefn, insomnia. Ceir amrywiaeth eang o bethau lle mae eich fferyllydd yn aml yn bwynt cyswllt cyntaf. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio y byddwn yn gweld hynny'n parhau. Ond mae'n gynllun addawol iawn, felly rwy'n ei gymeradwyo.

Well, thank you, and I should just reiterate—I know I've said in this Chamber on a number of occasions, both when I was a Deputy Minister and, indeed, in my current role now—this is built on the back of the investment in the Choose Pharmacy platform. That's now available in 98 per cent of pharmacies. It allows us to invest in different and additional services within the community pharmacy sector. So, I am optimistic about our ability not just to roll forward this particular example, but that, in the future, we'll see more of those services being provided by healthcare professionals within the community.

Wel, diolch yn fawr, a dylwn ailadrodd—gwn fy mod wedi dweud yn y Siambr hon droeon, pan oeddwn yn Ddirprwy Weinidog ac yn wir, yn fy rôl bresennol—fod hyn wedi'i adeiladu ar gefn y buddsoddiad yn y platfform Dewis Fferyllfa. Mae hwnnw bellach ar gael mewn 98 y cant o fferyllfeydd. Mae'n caniatáu inni fuddsoddi mewn gwasanaethau gwahanol ac ychwanegol o fewn y sector fferylliaeth gymunedol. Felly, rwy'n obeithiol ynglŷn â'n gallu nid yn unig i symud ymlaen â'r enghraifft benodol hon, ond y byddwn, yn y dyfodol, yn gweld mwy o'r gwasanaethau hynny'n cael eu darparu gan weithwyr gofal iechyd proffesiynol o fewn y gymuned.

Camddefnyddio Cyffuriau
The Misuse of Drugs

7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyfraddau marwolaethau sy’n gysylltiedig â chamddefnyddio cyffuriau ym Môn? OAQ54389

7. Will the Minister make a statement on the mortality rates associated with the misuse of drugs in Anglesey? OAQ54389

Thank you for the question. Any drug-related death is a tragedy, and we have increased our investment to tackle substance misuse. Mortality rates for misuse of drugs in Anglesey is 6.4 per 100,000, slightly below the Wales average at 7.2. Whilst there is a variation in those percentage points, this actually reflects an additional two drug-related deaths, or the misuse of drug deaths, on the island of Anglesey in the most recent figures.

Diolch am y cwestiwn. Mae unrhyw farwolaeth sy'n gysylltiedig â chyffuriau yn drasiedi, ac rydym wedi cynyddu ein buddsoddiad i fynd i'r afael â chamddefnyddio sylweddau. Y cyfraddau marwolaeth ar gyfer camddefnyddio cyffuriau yn Ynys Môn yw 6.4 y 100,000, ychydig yn is na chyfartaledd Cymru, sef 7.2. Er bod amrywiad yn y pwyntiau canran hynny, mae hyn mewn gwirionedd yn dangos bod dwy farwolaeth ychwanegol yn gysylltiedig â chyffuriau, neu farwolaethau camddefnyddio cyffuriau, ar Ynys Môn yn y ffigurau diweddaraf.

15:00

Dwi wedi dod yn ymwybodol o beth sy'n ymddangos yn batrwm pryderus iawn o farwolaethau ym Môn yn y cyfnod diweddar. Dwi'n dweud fy mod i wedi dod yn ymwybodol o hyn, achos, cyn belled ag ydw i'n gwybod, does yna ddim cyhoeddusrwydd wedi bod am hyn. Beth dwi wedi'i gael ydy pobl yn ein cymunedau ni'n siarad efo fi i rannu eu pryderon nhw, ac maen nhw'n gweld y patrwm. Dwi'n meddwl fy mod i'n iawn i ddweud bod yna bump o farwolaethau wedi bod yn ardal Llangefni mewn cyfnod byr yn ddiweddar. A'r ofn, yn benodol, ydy bod camddefnyddwyr cyffuriau wedi bod yn cyfuno'r cyffur benzodiazepine efo sylweddau eraill efo canlyniadau trasig.

Rŵan, o wneud ymholiadau efo'r heddlu a'r crwner, mae'n ymddangos nad oes data'n cael eu cadw ar y cyffur penodol yna fel achos marwolaeth am ei fod o'n cael ei gyfrif fel contributory factor yn unig. Allaf i ofyn i'r Llywodraeth i edrych i mewn i'r marwolaethau yma i ymchwilio i'r posibilrwydd bod yna batrwm yma? Gaf i ofyn pa waith sydd yn cael ei wneud i adnabod faint o broblem ydy cymryd cyfuniad o gyffuriau? Ac a allaf i apelio am gymorth ychwanegol sydd wirioneddol ei angen ar frys, yn amlwg, er mwyn gallu cynnig help i'r rheini sydd yn gaeth i gyffuriau, rhai ohonyn nhw ers blynyddoedd lawer, fel ein bod ni'n gallu atal marwolaethau o'r fath?

I have become aware of what appears to be a concerning pattern of deaths on Anglesey in this latest period. I say that I’ve become aware of this, because, as far as I know, there’s no publicity on this. What I’ve had is people in our communities talking with me to share their concerns, and they see a pattern. I think I’m right to say that five deaths have occurred in the Llangefni area in a very short period of time recently. The concern, really, is that those who misuse drugs have been combining benzodiazepine with other substances with tragic consequences.

Now, having made enquiries to the coroner and police, it appears that data isn’t kept on that specific drug as a cause of death because it’s considered a contributory factor. May I ask the Government to look into these deaths to investigate into the possibility that there is a pattern here? May I ask what work is being undertaken to recognise how much of a problem taking a combination of drugs is? And can I appeal for additional support that is really required urgently in order to be able to offer help to those people who are misusing drugs, a number of them for a number of years, so that we can prevent more deaths?

I'd be grateful, so that I don't misunderstand the exact points that the Member is raising from local intelligence and concern, if he would write to me so that I can make sure that, whether it's the Government—or, indeed, asking the area planning board to look at this with their own local intelligence as well. The figures that I quoted earlier relate to the published figures of 2018, so it is possible that the Member is referring to misuse of drug deaths that have taken place after that. So, I'd be very grateful if he would write to me. I will look at that and I will then write back to him to explain how either we will look at it within the Government, or, indeed, how the information and intelligence is being shared and a response sought from the area planning board.

Fel nad wyf yn camddeall yr union bwyntiau y mae'r Aelod yn eu codi o safbwynt gwybodaeth a phryderon lleol, buaswn yn ddiolchgar pe bai'n ysgrifennu ataf fel y gallaf sicrhau, ai'r Llywodraeth—neu yn wir, ofyn i'r bwrdd cynllunio ardal edrych ar hyn gyda'u gwybodaeth leol eu hunain hefyd. Mae'r ffigurau a ddyfynnais yn gynharach yn cyfeirio at y ffigurau a gyhoeddwyd yn 2018, felly mae'n bosibl fod yr Aelod yn cyfeirio at farwolaethau sy’n gysylltiedig â chamddefnyddio cyffuriau sydd wedi digwydd ar ôl hynny. Felly, buaswn yn ddiolchgar iawn pe bai'n ysgrifennu ataf. Fe edrychaf ar hynny ac fe ysgrifennaf ato i egluro sut y byddwn naill ai'n edrych ar hynny o fewn y Llywodraeth, neu yn wir, sut y mae'r wybodaeth yn cael ei rhannu a sut y caiff ymateb ei geisio gan y bwrdd cynllunio ardal.

Since the Welsh Government published its 10-year substance misuse strategy in 2008 to tackle and reduce the harms associated with substance misuse in Wales, drug misuse deaths across Wales have risen from 569 to 858: in Anglesey, actually—up to the figures published in August by the Office for National Statistics—slightly better, down from 10 to eight, but, across north Wales, up from 81 to 98. And the ONS figures in August revealed that Wales had the second highest figures amongst the 10 areas—nine in England plus Wales—the second biggest increase in its rate over the last 10 years at 84 per cent, and the second highest age-standardised mortality rate for deaths related to drugs misuse by country and region. It is not a good picture.

Why is the Welsh Government still failing to address the recommendations made in a series of reports it commissioned during the second and third Assemblies on substance misuse treatment in Wales, particularly detox and rehab, to address the problems identified by Healthcare Inspectorate Wales and their review last July 2018—10 years after the strategy—that people found it difficult to get the treatment they needed from substitute prescribing and detox, rehab and counselling services because of long waiting times and a lack of capacity in services? The solutions were identified—why are we still waiting?

Ers i Lywodraeth Cymru gyhoeddi ei strategaeth 10 mlynedd ar gyfer camddefnyddio sylweddau yn 2008 i leihau a mynd i’r afael â'r niwed sy’n gysylltiedig â chamddefnyddio sylweddau yng Nghymru, mae marwolaethau sy'n gysylltiedig â chamddefnyddio cyffuriau ledled Cymru wedi codi o 569 i 858: ar Ynys Môn, mewn gwirionedd—hyd at y ffigurau a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Awst gan y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol—ychydig yn well, i lawr o 10 i wyth, ond ledled gogledd Cymru, i fyny o 81 i 98. A datgelodd ffigurau'r Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol ym mis Awst mai Cymru oedd â'r ffigurau uchaf ond un ymhlith y 10 ardal—naw yn Lloegr, a Chymru—y cynnydd mwyaf ond un o ran y gyfradd dros y 10 mlynedd diwethaf, sef 84 y cant, a'r gyfradd farwolaethau safonedig yn ôl oedran uchaf ond un o ran marwolaethau sy'n gysylltiedig â chamddefnyddio cyffuriau yn ôl gwlad a rhanbarth. Nid yw'n ddarlun da.

Pam fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn dal i fethu mynd i’r afael â’r argymhellion a wnaed mewn cyfres o adroddiadau a gomisiynwyd yn ystod yr ail a’r trydydd Cynulliad ar drin camddefnyddio sylweddau yng Nghymru, yn enwedig dadwenwyno a chymorth adsefydlu, i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau a nodwyd gan Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru a’u hadolygiad ym mis Gorffennaf 2018—10 mlynedd ar ôl y strategaeth—fod pobl yn ei chael hi'n anodd cael y driniaeth yr oeddent ei hangen drwy wasanaethau presgripsiynu meddyginiaeth gyfnewid a dadwenwyno, gwasanaethau adsefydlu a gwasanaethau cwnsela oherwydd amseroedd aros hir a diffyg capasiti yn y gwasanaethau? Cafodd yr atebion eu nodi—pam ein bod yn dal i aros?

Actually, the data on waiting times shows that, in the last 10 years of the substance misuse strategy, we have seen a significant improvement in waiting times—91.5 per cent of people start treatment and are seen within 20 working days of referral, compared to 73 per cent 10 years ago. And our challenge is what our service is able to do, compared to the demand and the need coming into it and the broader challenges outside the health service that end up needing a health service response. So, I don't think it's as simple as Mark Isherwood paints the picture, that this is simply a case of the health service not doing its job. It is how we are able to deliver on seeing and treating people in a timely manner. It is also what we're able to do as a whole-society effort on the challenge of drug and alcohol misuse, and I do recognise that there are too many deaths from drug and alcohol misuse. It's part of why we have a recommitment to a future substance misuse strategy and it's also, for example, on the alcohol front, why we've committed to taking measures on the price of alcohol as a significant measure to reduce mortality as well.

Mewn gwirionedd, mae'r data ar amseroedd aros yn dangos ein bod, yn ystod 10 mlynedd olaf y strategaeth camddefnyddio sylweddau, wedi gweld gwelliant sylweddol o ran amseroedd aros—mae 91.5 y cant o bobl yn dechrau triniaeth ac yn cael eu gweld o fewn 20 diwrnod gwaith i gael eu cyfeirio, o gymharu â 73 y cant 10 mlynedd yn ôl. A'n her ni yw'r hyn y gall ein gwasanaeth ei wneud, o gymharu â'r galw a'r angen sy'n ei wynebu a'r heriau ehangach y tu hwnt i'r gwasanaeth iechyd sydd angen ymateb gan y gwasanaeth iechyd yn y pen draw. Felly, ni chredaf fod y darlun mor syml â'r un y mae Mark Isherwood yn ei baentio, ac nad yw'n fater o'r gwasanaeth iechyd yn methu gwneud ei waith. Mae'n ymwneud â sut y gallwn sicrhau y caiff pobl eu gweld a'u trin mewn modd amserol. Mae'n ymwneud hefyd â'r ymdrech y gallwn ei gwneud fel cymdeithas gyfan mewn perthynas â heriau camddefnyddio cyffuriau ac alcohol, ac rwy'n cydnabod bod gormod o farwolaethau sy'n gysylltiedig â chamddefnyddio cyffuriau ac alcohol yn digwydd. Mae'n rhan o'r rheswm pam ein bod wedi ailymrwymo i strategaeth camddefnyddio sylweddau yn y dyfodol a dyma pam hefyd, o ran alcohol, er enghraifft, ein bod wedi ymrwymo i roi camau ar waith ar bris alcohol fel mesur pwysig i leihau marwolaethau.

Ardoll Gofal Cymdeithasol
Social Care Levy

8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y gwaith traws-lywodraethol sy'n ystyried ardoll gofal cymdeithasol? OAQ54380

8. Will the Minister provide an update on the cross-government work looking into a social care levy? OAQ54380

15:05

Yes, and I'd like to thank the Member for his work within Government on taking forward the work across Government on a potential social care levy. I now chair the ministerial board, and, over the last six months, we've considered potential methods to raise and distribute potential additional funding. Our current focus is on the principles of priority areas for any funding, and I look forward to being in a position to write to the health and social care committee with outline proposals, which we will broadly consult upon.

Gwnaf, a hoffwn ddiolch i'r Aelod am ei waith o fewn y Llywodraeth ar fwrw ymlaen â'r gwaith ar draws y Llywodraeth ar ardoll gofal cymdeithasol bosibl. Rwyf bellach yn cadeirio'r bwrdd gweinidogol, a thros y chwe mis diwethaf, rydym wedi ystyried dulliau posibl o godi a dosbarthu cyllid ychwanegol posibl. Rydym yn canolbwyntio ar hyn o bryd ar egwyddorion meysydd blaenoriaeth ar gyfer unrhyw gyllid, ac edrychaf ymlaen at fod mewn sefyllfa i ysgrifennu at y pwyllgor iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol gyda chynigion amlinellol, y byddwn yn ymgynghori arnynt yn eang.

That's really welcome news, Minister, and I'm glad that the work is progressing in a considered way, steadily, because we can't rush at this. But he'll understand that, with the social care Green Paper in the UK Westminster Government still disappearing over the horizon like some sort of mirage, it is vitally important that we do do the work here in Wales, because I suspect at some point we will need to create our own solutions. There has also, of course, been talk within Welsh Government about a national care service as well, which would provide a valued career path for people who work within care, similar to what there is within the health service as well, rather than, as so often has been remarked, an alternative to stacking shelves or whatever—I think that denigrates the workforce, actually, but we know what that phrase means. So, could he tell us how he will take this work forward as it progresses, as he sees some of the outcomes of the work streams going on, in a cross-party way? Because what we do know is that far too often before, at a UK level particularly, this has crashed and burned against short-term politics and electoral cycles. In order to take this forward in Wales, if it comes to that, we will have to have cross-party agreement here in this Senedd to do that.

Mae hynny'n newyddion i'w groesawu'n fawr, Weinidog, ac rwy'n falch fod y gwaith yn mynd rhagddo mewn ffordd ystyriol a phwyllog, gan na allwn ruthro hyn. Ond fe fydd yn deall, gyda'r Papur Gwyrdd gofal cymdeithasol yn Llywodraeth San Steffan yn dal i ddiflannu dros y gorwel fel rhyw fath o rith, ei bod yn hanfodol bwysig ein bod yn gwneud y gwaith yma yng Nghymru, gan fy mod amau y bydd angen i ni greu ein hatebion ein hunain ar ryw bwynt. Bu sôn hefyd, wrth gwrs, yn Llywodraeth Cymru am wasanaeth gofal cenedlaethol a fyddai’n darparu llwybr gyrfa gwerthfawr i bobl sy’n gweithio ym maes gofal, yn debyg i’r hyn sydd ar gael yn y gwasanaeth iechyd, yn hytrach nag fel dewis amgen, fel y nodir mor aml, yn lle stacio silffoedd neu beth bynnag—credaf fod hynny'n difrïo'r gweithlu, mewn gwirionedd, ond gwyddom beth y mae'r ymadrodd hwnnw'n ei olygu. Felly, a all ddweud wrthym sut y bydd yn bwrw ymlaen â'r gwaith hwn wrth iddo fynd rhagddo, wrth iddo weld rhai o ganlyniadau'r ffrydiau gwaith, mewn ffordd drawsbleidiol? Oherwydd yr hyn a wyddom yw bod hyn wedi mynd benben, yn enwedig ar lefel y DU, â gwleidyddiaeth tymor byr a chylchoedd etholiadol yn llawer rhy aml yn y gorffennol. Er mwyn bwrw ymlaen â hyn yng Nghymru, os daw hi i hynny, bydd yn rhaid i ni gael cydsyniad trawsbleidiol yma yn y Senedd hon er mwyn gwneud hynny.

Yes, I recognise the point the Member makes, and, in fact, ahead of looking to consult on some outline suggestions about how we might raise and then make use of funding—and, of course, the rate at which staff are paid is part of that—I'll want to be able to have a conversation with the Chairs of our subject committees here. My office will be in touch to try and arrange a conversation, and we'll also be offering a technical briefing for the health and social care committee to look at some of those models so that we're open about what we're talking about, and to do that in a way that really does give us an opportunity to take this forward in a way that doesn't descend into a partisan contest. Because, whatever we think of the current UK Government—and there are many views available—it's not likely that we're going to have a social care Green Paper any time in the near future, so we need to know what we can do in Wales with the powers that we have.

On this point, on a cross-party basis, backbenchers in Westminster have come together and agreed that they should raise additional money to put into the social care system. That was a unanimous view from two select committees that came together, including members of the Conservative Party, Labour and others as well, who all agreed that you needed to raise money. So, there's a willingness to look at a UK level for that, but I think in Wales we'll need to look at that before we get to that point. We can then take account, if progress is made at any point in the future, of UK funding streams and what that might mean. But, yes, I'm happy to indicate now, and I'll be following that up with conversations between my office and the committee, and, indeed, I hope that party spokespeople would be open to a conversation about that when we have those outline proposals, because nothing is determined and decided at this point.

Ie, rwy'n cydnabod y pwynt a wnaeth yr Aelod, ac mewn gwirionedd, cyn ymgynghori ar awgrymiadau amlinellol ynglŷn â sut y gallem godi a gwneud defnydd o gyllid—ac wrth gwrs, mae cyfraddau cyflogau staff yn rhan o hynny—byddaf eisiau gallu cael sgwrs gyda Chadeiryddion ein pwyllgorau pwnc yma. Bydd fy swyddfa'n cysylltu i geisio trefnu sgwrs, a byddwn hefyd yn cynnig sesiwn friffio dechnegol i'r pwyllgor iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol er mwyn edrych ar rai o'r modelau hynny fel ein bod yn agored am yr hyn yr ydym yn sôn amdano, ac yn gwneud hynny mewn ffordd sy'n rhoi cyfle go iawn i ni fwrw ymlaen â hyn mewn ffordd nad yw'n arwain at ornest bleidiol. Oherwydd, ni waeth beth yw ein barn am Lywodraeth bresennol y DU—ac mae nifer o safbwyntiau i'w cael—nid yw'n debygol y bydd gennym Bapur Gwyrdd ar ofal cymdeithasol ar unrhyw adeg yn y dyfodol agos, felly mae angen i ni wybod beth y gallwn ei wneud yng Nghymru gyda'r pwerau sydd gennym.

Ar y pwynt hwn, ar sail drawsbleidiol, mae Aelodau ar y meinciau cefn yn San Steffan wedi dod at ei gilydd a chytuno y dylent godi arian ychwanegol i'w roi yn y system gofal cymdeithasol. Roedd honno'n farn unfrydol gan ddau bwyllgor dethol a ddaeth ynghyd, gan gynnwys aelodau o’r Blaid Geidwadol, Llafur ac eraill hefyd, a gytunodd fod angen i chi godi arian. Felly, ceir parodrwydd i edrych am hynny ar lefel y DU, ond credaf, yng Nghymru, y bydd angen i ni edrych ar hynny cyn i ni gyrraedd y pwynt hwnnw. Yna, os gwneir cynnydd ar unrhyw adeg yn y dyfodol, gallwn ystyried ffrydiau ariannu'r DU a'r hyn y gallai hynny ei olygu. Ond ydw, rwy'n fwy na pharod i nodi nawr, a byddaf yn dilyn hynny gyda sgyrsiau rhwng fy swyddfa a'r pwyllgor, ac yn wir, rwy'n gobeithio y byddai llefarwyr y pleidiau'n agored i sgwrs am hynny pan fydd gennym y cynigion amlinellol hynny, gan nad oes unrhyw beth wedi'i bennu na'i benderfynu ar hyn o bryd.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Minister, we already have people who are leaving Wales to live in other parts of the home nations in order to be able to access drugs that they cannot access here. So, given Jeremy Corbyn's giveaway speech at conference, when he talked about having social care free at the point of delivery, could you confirm whether or not that is one of the work streams that this cross-party group is currently working on? If so, are they also looking at the costings, really to prevent a mass exodus from Wales?

Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, mae gennym eisoes bobl sy'n gadael Cymru i fyw mewn rhannau eraill o'r gwledydd cartref er mwyn gallu cael gafael ar gyffuriau na allant gael gafael arnynt yma. Felly, o ystyried araith Jeremy Corbyn yn y gynhadledd, pan soniodd am gael gofal cymdeithasol am ddim yn y man darparu, a allech gadarnhau p'un a yw hynny'n un o'r ffrydiau gwaith y mae'r grŵp trawsbleidiol hwn yn gweithio arnynt ar hyn o bryd ai peidio? Os felly, a ydynt yn edrych ar y costiadau hefyd, er mwyn atal y torfeydd rhag gadael Cymru?

I don't think anything from yesterday should lead to a mass exodus from Wales, and I don't recognise what the Member said about a mass exodus from Wales on the basis of the availability of medication. We have a very good record on the availability of new and effective medication, as our successful new treatment fund demonstrates. But, on your point about social care, when we share outline consultation proposals, those will have an idea about the sort of funds that that would be required to deliver. So, we'll be open with each other about what different options might mean in terms of how we use funding, as well as how you could raise that funding as well. So, yes, if you want to have the maximalist approach to having the maximum available social care, then we will be able to set out what that would require, and we'll be looking to consult on a wide basis. I'll certainly be wanting to make use of the citizen panels that exist around each regional partnership board, together with the mix of parties that lead local authorities. They'll all have a stake in this and in fact the WLGA are part of the work that we're doing in the programme board. So, it's being genuinely taken forward on a cross-sector basis—and indeed a cross-party basis, I'm sure the Member will be delighted to hear.

Ni chredaf y dylai unrhyw beth a drafodwyd ddoe arwain at dorfeydd yn gadael Cymru, ac nid wyf yn cydnabod yr hyn a ddywedodd yr Aelod am dorfeydd yn gadael Cymru ar sail argaeledd meddyginiaeth. Mae gennym hanes da iawn o ran argaeledd meddyginiaeth newydd ac effeithiol, fel y mae ein cronfa triniaethau newydd lwyddiannus yn ei ddangos. Ond o ran eich pwynt ynglŷn â gofal cymdeithasol, pan fyddwn yn rhannu cynigion ymgynghori amlinellol, byddant yn cynnwys syniad ynglŷn â'r math o gronfeydd y byddai angen i hynny ei ddarparu. Felly, byddwn yn agored gyda'n gilydd ynglŷn â'r hyn y gallai gwahanol opsiynau ei olygu o ran sut y defnyddiwn gyllid, yn ogystal â sut y gallech godi'r cyllid hwnnw. Felly, iawn, os ydych am fabwysiadu ymagwedd fwyafsymiol o ran cael gymaint o ofal cymdeithasol â phosibl, bydd modd inni nodi'r hyn a fyddai'n angenrheidiol er mwyn gwneud hynny, a byddwn yn mynd ati i ymgynghori ar sail eang. Yn sicr, byddaf yn awyddus i ddefnyddio'r paneli dinasyddion sydd i'w cael o amgylch pob bwrdd partneriaeth rhanbarthol, ynghyd â'r gymysgedd o bleidiau sy'n arwain awdurdodau lleol. Bydd gan bob un ohonynt eu cyfran yn hyn, ac mewn gwirionedd, mae Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru yn rhan o'r gwaith a wnawn ar fwrdd y rhaglen. Felly, mae'r gwaith yn mynd rhagddo ar sail wirioneddol draws-sector—a thrawsbleidiol hefyd yn wir, fel y bydd yr Aelod yn falch iawn o glywed, rwy'n siŵr.

15:10
3. Cwestiynau Amserol
3. Topical Questions

Yr eitem nesaf yw cwestiynau amserol. Dwi wedi dewis un cwestiwn i'w ofyn i'r Gweinidog Economi a Thrafnidiaeth, ac mae'r cwestiwn gan Bethan Sayed.

Thank you, Minister. The next item is topical questions. I have selected one question to be asked to the Minister for Economy and Transport, and the question is from Bethan Sayed.

Thomas Cook
Thomas Cook

1. Beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i helpu'r rhai sydd wedi cael eu heffeithio gan y ffaith bod Thomas Cook yn cau? 341

1. What is the Welsh Government doing to help those impacted by the closure of Thomas Cook? 341

Llywydd, can I say that the collapse of Thomas Cook is extremely disappointing? My thoughts are of course with all of those affected by the announcement. I issued a written statement yesterday outlining the range of actions I've initiated and my officials are of course maintaining very close contact with Cardiff Airport, UK Government and various other agencies.

Lywydd, a gaf fi ddweud ei bod yn hynod siomedig fod Thomas Cook wedi mynd i'r wal? Rwy'n cydymdeimlo, wrth gwrs, gyda phawb yr effeithir arnynt gan y cyhoeddiad. Cyhoeddais ddatganiad ysgrifenedig ddoe a oedd yn amlinellu’r ystod o gamau rwyf wedi'u cymryd, ac mae fy swyddogion, wrth gwrs, yn cadw mewn cysylltiad agos iawn â Maes Awyr Caerdydd, Llywodraeth y DU ac amryw asiantaethau eraill.

Thank you very much for that written statement. To start on a positive, I'd like to ask you if you'd join with me in praising Elaine Kerslake from Gilfach Goch, who arranged a whip-round on a flight that she was coming back from on Thomas Cook because she realised that the staff were not being paid. Therefore, would you want to praise her for doing that? But also would you join with me, therefore, in asking those managers and CEOs of Thomas Cook, who reportedly earned £35 million in 12 years in bonuses despite the financial problems that they had—would you ask for them to pay back—join with me in asking for them to pay back those bonuses in the face of this particular sensitive situation, where we're finding that Thomas Cook staff are not being paid when those CEOs have benefited from the downfall of that particular company?

My other question to you would be—in my area at least, there are many Thomas Cook shops and staff will be adversely affected. I know that you mention in your written statement how you will be supporting staff, which I'm thankful for, but could you expand on that, and also how you would potentially be supporting the infrastructure around those shops on our high streets that will need to be facilitated in the future—can they be taken over by other travel agents or other such companies that may aid the high street in that regard—and also tell us a bit more abut how staff in general in Wales will be supported?

Now, we all know that travellers have been affected, and many of them have come to me, but one case in particular did make me feel concerned—a constituent of mine couldn't get home on the Cardiff flight that was allocated to them because of disabilities that they had and therefore had to pay for their own flight. Can you assure us that you're looking into these types of situations so that travellers are able to travel back in the comfort that they need and with the support that they need if they do have those disabilities? We can't forget those people who are vulnerable when they are seeking to travel home. But I would like to share—with everybody else, I'm sure, in this Chamber—how sad we are that this has happened and how we can potentially as a nation support those staff and those affected.

Diolch yn fawr iawn am y datganiad ysgrifenedig hwnnw. Gan ddechrau ar bwynt cadarnhaol, hoffwn ofyn i chi ymuno â mi i ganmol Elaine Kerslake o'r Gilfach Goch, a aeth ati i godi arian ar daith awyr yn ôl adref gyda Thomas Cook pan sylweddolodd nad oedd y staff yn cael eu talu. Felly, a fyddech yn awyddus i'w chanmol am wneud hynny? Ond hefyd, a wnewch chi ymuno â mi, felly, i ofyn i reolwyr a phrif weithredwyr Thomas Cook, a enillodd £35 miliwn mewn 12 mlynedd mewn taliadau bonws, yn ôl adroddiadau, er gwaethaf y problemau ariannol roeddent yn eu hwynebu—a wnewch chi ofyn iddynt ad-dalu—ymuno â mi i ofyn iddynt ad-dalu'r taliadau bonws hynny yn wyneb y sefyllfa arbennig o sensitif hon, lle rydym yn darganfod nad yw staff Thomas Cook yn cael eu talu pan fo'r prif weithredwyr hynny wedi elwa o gwymp y cwmni hwnnw?

Fy nghwestiwn arall i chi fyddai—yn fy ardal i o leiaf, mae llawer o siopau Thomas Cook a bydd yr effaith ar y staff yn wael. Gwn eich bod yn sôn yn eich datganiad ysgrifenedig ynglŷn â sut y byddwch yn cefnogi staff, ac rwy'n ddiolchgar am hynny, ond a allech ymhelaethu ar hynny, a hefyd sut y byddech o bosibl yn cefnogi'r seilwaith o amgylch y siopau hynny ar ein stryd fawr y bydd angen eu helpu yn y dyfodol—a all asiantau teithio eraill neu gwmnïau eraill o'r fath eu cymryd drosodd, gan y gallai hynny gynorthwyo'r stryd fawr—a dweud ychydig mwy wrthym ynglŷn â sut y bydd staff yn gyffredinol yng Nghymru yn cael eu cefnogi?

Nawr, gŵyr pob un ohonom am yr effaith ar deithwyr, ac mae llawer ohonynt wedi dod ataf, ond gwnaeth un achos penodol i mi bryderu—ni allai un o fy etholwyr ddod adref ar yr awyren a ddynodwyd ar eu cyfer i Gaerdydd oherwydd anableddau, ac felly bu'n rhaid iddynt dalu am eu taith awyr eu hunain. A allwch roi sicrwydd inni eich bod yn ymchwilio i'r mathau hyn o sefyllfaoedd fel y gall teithwyr deithio yn ôl yn y cyfforddusrwydd sydd ei angen arnynt a chyda'r gefnogaeth sydd ei hangen arnynt os oes ganddynt yr anableddau hynny? Ni allwn anghofio'r bobl sy'n ddiamddiffyn pan fyddant yn ceisio teithio adref. Ond hoffwn rannu—gyda phawb arall, rwy'n siŵr, yn y Siambr hon—pa mor drist yr ydym fod hyn wedi digwydd a sut y gallwn fel gwlad, o bosibl, gefnogi'r staff hynny a'r rhai yr effeithir arnynt.

Can I thank Bethan Jenkins for her questions and the concerns that she's expressed, not just for those affected who've been travelling with Thomas Cook, but also for employees at the company? I'd like to put on record my thanks to the kind woman from Gilfach who helped to raise money for people who are facing unemployment. I thought that was a selfless act, and the response from other passengers on board, I think, was quite incredible.

Can I also put on record my thanks to the Civil Aviation Authority and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office? When Operation Matterhorn commenced, a Herculean effort began to bring 150,000 people back to the United Kingdom and UK Government Ministers and I were clear that this would not be an easy task, but the way in particular that the Civil Aviation Authority have conducted themselves and have managed this situation is incredible, and I'm sure that many people who have been brought home as a result of their efforts will join me in thanking them—likewise the FCO, who are on the ground in so many countries doing an incredible job in providing support to British citizens.

I'm going to take up a unique case that Bethan Jenkins has identified, but one that does concern me, and that is the decision by a passenger with a disability to pay for their own flight home. Something that the Secretary of State for Transport and I were concerned to check on before Operation Matterhorn commenced was that there would be provision available for people who are disabled, and that would be prioritised: not just provision to get to a plane—an alternative service and onto that plane—but also onward transport when they returned home. We were given assurance that transport for disabled people would be provided as a priority. If the Member can provide me with information about the particular constituent, I will, of course, take up that matter with UK Government and with the Civil Aviation Authority.

I’m afraid to say that a significant number of people will be affected by the demise of Thomas Cook. We estimate that 179.5 full-time equivalents will be affected in Wales alone through the shops closing, and an additional 45 members of staff at Cardiff Airport. The Working Wales programme will be available to them as part of that. ReAct, a tried-and-tested intervention, will be available to them. We have regional response teams across Wales ready to assist anybody who is affected by the collapse of Thomas Cook, and I would urge any Members who are approached by businesses that are affected as well by the collapse of the company to direct them to the Business Wales hotline for assistance.

I think Bethan Jenkins makes a very important point that in many of our communities—and I was looking through the list of where some of the Thomas Cooks are located—many of them will be severely impacted by the closure of those shops. In many of the high streets that I can identify before me, there are very few such services, and to have another shop close in some of those places will, of course, be pretty devastating, which is why I and the Deputy Minister for Housing and Local Government are keen to progress a 'town centre first' initiative that would see the public sector, and indeed the private sector, prioritise investment within town centres to stimulate a greater degree the economic resilience within them. This won’t be an easy task, but it is one that we must embark on.

And just one final point as well, and that regards the action of the CEOs. I’m pleased to note that the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy has initiated an inquiry into corporate actions, and I think it would only be right and proper to await the outcome of that before commenting on it.

A gaf fi ddiolch i Bethan Jenkins am ei chwestiynau a'r pryderon a fynegwyd ganddi, nid yn unig o ran y rhai yr effeithiwyd arnynt sydd wedi bod yn teithio gyda Thomas Cook, ond hefyd o ran gweithwyr y cwmni? Hoffwn gofnodi fy niolch i'r ddynes garedig o'r Gilfach Goch a helpodd i godi arian i bobl sy'n wynebu diweithdra. Roedd honno'n weithred anhunanol, yn fy marn i, a chredaf fod ymateb y teithwyr eraill ar yr awyren yn anhygoel.

A gaf fi hefyd gofnodi fy niolch i'r Awdurdod Hedfan Sifil a'r Swyddfa Dramor a Chymanwlad? Pan ddechreuodd Ymgyrch Matterhorn, cafwyd ymdrech aruthrol i ddod â 150,000 o bobl yn ôl i'r Deyrnas Unedig, a dywedodd Gweinidogion Llywodraeth y DU a minnau'n glir na fyddai hon yn dasg hawdd, ond mae'r ffordd y mae'r Awdurdod Hedfan Sifil, yn benodol, wedi mynd i'r afael â'r sefyllfa hon a'i rheoli yn anhygoel, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd llawer o bobl a gludwyd adref o ganlyniad i'w hymdrechion yn ymuno â mi i ddiolch iddynt—yn ogystal â'r Swyddfa Dramor a Chymanwlad, sy'n gwneud gwaith anhygoel ar lawr gwlad mewn cymaint o wledydd yn rhoi cefnogaeth i ddinasyddion Prydeinig.

Rwyf am drafod achos unigryw a grybwyllwyd gan Bethan Jenkins, ond mae'n un sy'n peri pryder i mi, sef y penderfyniad gan deithiwr ag anabledd i dalu am eu taith awyr eu hunain adref. Un peth yr oedd yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Drafnidiaeth a minnau yn awyddus i'w archwilio cyn i Ymgyrch Matterhorn ddechrau oedd y byddai darpariaeth ar gael i bobl anabl, ac y byddai'n cael ei blaenoriaethu: nid darpariaeth i gyrraedd awyren yn unig—gwasanaeth gwahanol a mynd ar yr awyren honno—ond hefyd cludiant pellach ar ôl dychwelyd adref. Cawsom sicrwydd y byddai cludiant i bobl anabl yn cael ei ddarparu fel blaenoriaeth. Os gall yr Aelod roi gwybodaeth i mi am yr etholwr dan sylw, byddaf yn trafod y mater gyda Llywodraeth y DU a chyda'r Awdurdod Hedfan Sifil wrth gwrs.

Mae arnaf ofn y bydd tranc Thomas Cook yn effeithio ar nifer sylweddol o bobl. Rydym yn amcangyfrif y bydd 179.5 o staff cyfwerth ag amser llawn yn cael eu heffeithio yng Nghymru yn unig drwy gau'r siopau, a 45 aelod ychwanegol o staff ym Maes Awyr Caerdydd. Bydd rhaglen Cymru'n Gweithio ar gael iddynt fel rhan o hynny. Bydd ReAct, rhaglen ymyrraeth sydd wedi hen ennill ei phlwyf, ar gael iddynt. Mae gennym dimau ymateb rhanbarthol ledled Cymru yn barod i gynorthwyo unrhyw un yr effeithir arnynt gan fethiant Thomas Cook, a buaswn yn annog unrhyw Aelodau sy'n clywed gan fusnesau yr effeithir arnynt yn sgil tranc y cwmni i'w cyfeirio at linell gymorth Busnes Cymru.

Credaf fod Bethan Jenkins yn codi pwynt pwysig iawn y bydd llawer o'n cymunedau—ac fe edrychais drwy'r rhestr i weld ble y lleolir rhai o ganghennau Thomas Cook—yn cael eu heffeithio'n ddifrifol wrth i lawer o'r siopau hynny gau. Ar lawer o’r strydoedd mawr rwy'n gyfarwydd â hwy, prin iawn yw gwasanaethau o’r fath, a bydd cael siop arall yn cau yn rhai o’r lleoedd hynny, wrth gwrs, yn eithaf dinistriol, a dyna pam fod y Dirprwy Weinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol a minnau yn awyddus i fwrw ymlaen â menter 'canol y dref yn gyntaf' a fyddai'n golygu bod y sector cyhoeddus, a'r sector preifat yn wir, yn blaenoriaethu buddsoddiad yng nghanol y dref i ysgogi mwy o gadernid economaidd ynddynt. Ni fydd hon yn dasg hawdd, ond mae'n un y mae'n rhaid i ni gychwyn arni.

Ac un pwynt olaf hefyd, ac mae'n ymwneud â gweithredoedd y prif weithredwyr. Rwy'n falch o nodi bod yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Fusnes, Ynni a Strategaeth Ddiwydiannol wedi agor ymchwiliad i gamau gweithredu corfforaethol, a chredaf ei bod yn briodol inni aros am ganlyniad yr ymchwiliad hwnnw cyn gwneud sylwadau arno.

15:15

Can I also align my views to the other Members who have spoken in regard to the sympathy for those staff who are affected and, of course, the many other people that have been affected and are still being affected as well? I am pleased, Minister, in regard to the hotline that’s been set up that you referred to in regard to Working Wales—I think that’s the right approach. I wonder what support that you consider the Welsh Government may need to provide to Cardiff Airport. There is a challenge here in that the airport has lost a major airline that carries 100,000 passengers every year. So, I was somewhat surprised, but maybe you can elaborate on this, to read in your statement yesterday that you think that there will be a limited impact on the airport. It may be very difficult for the airport to find a new airline partner to replace Thomas Cook in advance of next year’s busy summer season, and of course you'll be aware that the airport has lost £23 million since 2014. So, do you feel that Cardiff Airport needs some support and could you outline what support you think it may need? And also, what initial analysis have you done in regard to the impact of Thomas Cook’s collapse on the financial stability of Cardiff Airport?

A gaf finnau ategu'r Aelodau eraill sydd wedi cydymdeimlo â'r staff yr effeithir arnynt, ac wrth gwrs, y nifer fawr o bobl eraill yr effeithiwyd arnynt ac sy'n dal i gael eu heffeithio hefyd? Rwy’n falch, Weinidog, fod y llinell gymorth y cyfeirioch chi ati mewn perthynas â Cymru'n Gweithio wedi'i sefydlu—credaf mai dyna’r ffordd gywir o fynd ati. Tybed pa gefnogaeth yr ystyriwch y gallai fod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru ei darparu i Faes Awyr Caerdydd. Ceir her yma yn y ffaith bod y maes awyr wedi colli cwmni hedfan pwysig sy'n cludo 100,000 o deithwyr bob blwyddyn. Felly, cefais fy synnu i raddau, ond efallai y gallwch ymhelaethu ar hyn, wrth ddarllen yn eich datganiad ddoe eich bod yn credu mai effaith gyfyngedig y bydd hyn yn ei chael ar y maes awyr. Efallai y bydd yn anodd iawn i'r maes awyr ddod o hyd i gwmni hedfan partner newydd yn lle Thomas Cook cyn tymor prysur yr haf y flwyddyn nesaf, ac wrth gwrs, fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol fod y maes awyr wedi colli £23 miliwn ers 2014. Felly, a ydych yn teimlo bod angen rhywfaint o gefnogaeth ar Faes Awyr Caerdydd, ac a allech amlinellu pa gefnogaeth y credwch y gallai fod ei hangen arno? A hefyd, pa ddadansoddiad cychwynnol a wnaethoch o effaith methiant Thomas Cook ar sefydlogrwydd ariannol Maes Awyr Caerdydd?

Can I thank Russell George for his questions and for joining other Members in this Chamber in thanking organisations and bodies such as the CAA for their work and efforts in recent days? I’m going to focus specifically on the issue of Cardiff international airport, which was the primary focus of Russell George’s questions.

In terms of the financial sustainability of the airport post collapse of Thomas Cook, it is indeed true that it will not have a major impact on the airport, and that is because, as part of the due diligence of the application process for the loan that we provided to Cardiff international airport, we modelled a number of scenarios. One of those scenarios included the impact that the collapse of an airline would have on the airport. The model that we took was a larger airline, and, therefore, the viability of the airport is very much intact, in spite of the collapse of Thomas Cook.

However, I think the Member raises an important point concerning the long-term ownership and sustainability of the airport, and that is something that I'll be bringing back to this Chamber in the autumn. It's quite incredible; we tend to think in the UK that airports as a default should be privately owned, but this is not the case globally. I think in total there are around 4,300 airports that have service scheduled flights, but only 14 per cent of those are not in public ownership. Even airports like JFK are owned by the public. So, it's actually the model globally for airports to be owned by the public, and that should be the same for Cardiff Airport, in my view. The airport is speaking on a very regular basis with alternative airlines, other airlines that it's trying to attract into the facility, and I am very confident, based on the very recent discussions that have taken place, that new airlines will be attracted and will be providing new routes from and to Cardiff Airport.

But if I could just say, there are two major challenges that airlines are facing right now, airlines that operate from a UK base. One concerns the spending power of UK citizens, which has reduced overseas because of the fall in the value of the pound, and therefore the difficulty in attracting UK citizens to go abroad. And then the second challenge that is facing us as a consequence of uncertainties around Brexit is the fall in the pound and the fact that fuel is priced in dollars, and therefore the cost of operating airlines that are based in the UK has risen. Therefore, the sector itself is clearly in a very fragile and precarious position. 

A gaf fi ddiolch i Russell George am ei gwestiynau ac am ymuno ag Aelodau eraill yn y Siambr hon i ddiolch i sefydliadau a chyrff fel yr Awdurdod Hedfan Sifil am eu gwaith a'u hymdrechion dros y dyddiau diwethaf? Rwyf am ganolbwyntio'n benodol ar fater maes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd, sef prif ffocws cwestiynau Russell George.

O ran cynaliadwyedd ariannol y maes awyr ar ôl cwymp Thomas Cook, mae'n wir na fydd hynny'n cael effaith fawr ar y maes awyr, ac mae hynny oherwydd, fel rhan o waith diwydrwydd dyladwy'r broses ymgeisio am y benthyciad a ddarparwyd gennym i faes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd, modelwyd nifer o senarios gennym. Roedd un o'r senarios hynny'n cynnwys yr effaith y byddai methiant cwmni hedfan yn ei chael ar y maes awyr. Y model a ddewiswyd gennym oedd cwmni hedfan mwy o faint, ac felly, nid yw hyfywedd y maes awyr wedi'i amharu i raddau helaeth, er gwaethaf methiant Thomas Cook.

Fodd bynnag, credaf fod yr Aelod yn nodi pwynt pwysig ynghylch perchnogaeth a chynaliadwyedd hirdymor y maes awyr, ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth y byddaf yn ei drafod yn y Siambr hon yn yr hydref. Mae'n eithaf anhygoel; rydym yn tueddu i feddwl, yn y DU, y dylai meysydd awyr fod yn eiddo preifat yn ddiofyn, ond nid yw hyn yn wir yn fyd-eang. Credaf fod oddeutu 4,300 o feysydd awyr yn darparu gwasanaeth teithiau awyr rheolaidd, ond 14 y cant yn unig ohonynt sydd heb fod mewn perchnogaeth gyhoeddus. Mae hyd yn oed meysydd awyr fel JFK yn eiddo i'r cyhoedd. Felly, y model byd-eang, mewn gwirionedd, yw bod meysydd awyr yn eiddo i'r cyhoedd, a dylai hynny fod yr un peth ar gyfer Maes Awyr Caerdydd yn fy marn i. Mae'r maes awyr yn siarad yn rheolaidd iawn gyda chwmnïau hedfan gwahanol, cwmnïau hedfan eraill y mae'n ceisio eu denu i'r cyfleuster, ac rwy'n hyderus iawn, ar sail ar y trafodaethau diweddar iawn sydd wedi mynd rhagddynt, y bydd cwmnïau hedfan newydd yn cael eu denu ac y byddant yn darparu llwybrau newydd o ac i Faes Awyr Caerdydd.

Ond os caf ddweud, mae cwmnïau hedfan yn wynebu dwy her fawr ar hyn o bryd, cwmnïau sy'n gweithredu o'r DU. Mae un yn ymwneud â grym gwario dinasyddion y DU, sydd wedi lleihau dramor oherwydd y cwymp yng ngwerth y bunt, ac felly anhawster wrth ddenu dinasyddion y DU i fynd dramor. Ac yna'r ail her sy'n ein hwynebu o ganlyniad i ansicrwydd ynghylch Brexit yw'r cwymp yn y bunt a'r ffaith bod tanwydd yn cael ei brisio mewn doleri, ac felly mae cost gweithredu cwmnïau hedfan sydd wedi'u lleoli yn y DU wedi codi. Felly, mae'n amlwg fod y sector ei hun mewn sefyllfa fregus a simsan iawn.

15:20

May I also add my sympathies to the staff, as outlined by Bethan and by Russell—those staff working in the shops in Wales, but also to the staff in the whole operation of the airline? Would the First Minister not agree with me that, even if it were desirable to bail out Thomas Cook—and given the apparent appalling management structure, it probably wouldn't be—the UK Government could well fall foul of the European state aid rules if they were to try to bail out the company? And there is one point with regard to the return of passengers from abroad. Apparently, once a company or an airline goes into liquidation, all the aircraft owned by that company are grounded. It's apparent that, back when Monarch collapsed, the UK Government said that they would change the rules. So, could the Welsh Government consider making representations to the UK Government to have the rules changed with regard to it, so those aircraft could be freed up to bring passengers home at times like this?

A gaf finnau gydymdeimlo â'r staff, fel yr amlinellwyd gan Bethan a Russell—y staff sy'n gweithio yn y siopau yng Nghymru, ond hefyd y staff ym mhob rhan o waith y cwmni hedfan? Oni fyddai'r Prif Weinidog yn cytuno â mi, hyd yn oed pe bai'n ddymunol rhoi arian cynorthwyol i Thomas Cook—ac o ystyried y strwythur rheoli, sy'n echrydus yn ôl pob golwg, mae'n debyg na fyddai—y gallai Llywodraeth y DU fod yn mynd yn groes i reolau cymorth gwladwriaethol Ewrop pe baent yn ceisio rhoi arian cynorthwyol i'r cwmni? Ac mae un pwynt yn ymwneud â dod â theithwyr yn ôl o dramor. Yn ôl pob tebyg, pan fydd cwmni neu gwmni hedfan yn cael eu diddymu, mae'r holl awyrennau sy'n eiddo i'r cwmni hwnnw'n cael eu hatal rhag hedfan. Mae'n amlwg, pan aeth Monarch i'r wal, fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi dweud y byddent yn newid y rheolau. Felly, a wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru ystyried gwneud sylwadau i Lywodraeth y DU i newid y rheolau mewn perthynas â hyn, fel y gellid rhyddhau'r awyrennau hynny i ddod â theithwyr adref ar adegau fel hyn?

Absolutely. I'll consider doing that without a shadow of a doubt. I must say that the ability of the Civil Aviation Authority, though, to have identified 45 aircraft to bring passengers back was astonishing. It's a real credit to them that they were able to do that in such a small window of opportunity. I think it's a matter for UK Government to consider whether or not it should have bailed out Thomas Cook. I'm not privy, and I doubt I will ever be privy, to the due diligence it's undertaken. Therefore, I accept the word of Ministers within the UK Government when they say that it wouldn't have been a sustainable and affordable option. I know that people have raised the question of whether it should have been brought into public ownership. That's probably a matter for Members in the House of Commons to raise. But, as I say, I have not been in receipt of any intelligence that has been provided through the due diligence process.

Yn sicr. Byddaf yn ystyried gwneud hynny heb unrhyw amheuaeth. Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud bod gallu'r Awdurdod Hedfan Sifil, serch hynny, i nodi 45 o awyrennau i ddod â theithwyr yn ôl yn rhyfeddol. Mae'r ffaith eu bod wedi gallu gwneud hynny mewn cyfnod mor fyr yn glod mawr iddynt. Credaf mai mater i Lywodraeth y DU yw ystyried a ddylent fod wedi rhoi arian cynorthwyol i Thomas Cook ai peidio. Nid wyf yn gwybod, ac rwy'n amau na chaf byth wybod, pa gamau diwydrwydd dyladwy a gyflawnwyd ganddynt. Felly, rwy’n derbyn gair Gweinidogion Llywodraeth y DU pan ddywedant na fyddai wedi bod yn opsiwn cynaliadwy a fforddiadwy. Gwn fod pobl wedi codi'r cwestiwn ynglŷn ag a ddylid ei roi mewn perchnogaeth gyhoeddus. Mae'n debyg fod hwnnw'n fater i Aelodau yn Nhŷ'r Cyffredin ei godi. Ond fel y dywedaf, nid wyf wedi derbyn unrhyw wybodaeth a ddarparwyd drwy'r broses ddiwydrwydd dyladwy.

4. Datganiadau 90 Eiliad
4. 90-second Statements

Yr eitem nesaf yw'r datganiad 90 eiliad. Angela Burns.

The next item is the 90-second statement. Angela Burns.

Today is World Pharmacists Day, a time to recognise the contribution that pharmacists and their teams make to world heath. Co-ordinated by the international pharmaceutical federation, World Pharmacists Day brings to the fore the varied work pharmacists undertake in various countries. For example, in Africa, pharmacists provide health education seminars and manage clinics for chronic diseases such as mental health disorders, HIV, diabetes and hypertension.

Specifically for us in Wales, pharmacists play a key role in the provision of NHS services, ranging from flu jabs and health checks to advice on all manner of illnesses and minor injuries, such as the innovative sore throat test and treat. And I know, as a mother, I was constantly, when my children were young, in the pharmacy asking for help. Wonderful people. 

So, with the emphasis on encouraging people to choose well and to seek help from the appropriate service level depending on their need, this year's World Pharmacists Day theme of safe and effective medicines for all promotes the crucial role that pharmacists play in safeguarding patient safety by improving the use of medicines and reducing medication errors. 

The discharge medicines review service in Wales is a great example of where medicine errors are being minimised through the use of data, but there's more to do and best practice to be disseminated. So, Members, I would ask that you all recongise the role that pharmacists play in delivering safe and effective healthcare, and to pharmacists throughout Wales, I say, probably on behalf of all of us, a very heartfelt 'thank you'. 
 
 

Mae heddiw'n Ddiwrnod Fferyllwyr y Byd, amser i gydnabod y cyfraniad y mae fferyllwyr a'u timau'n ei wneud i iechyd y byd. Wedi'i gydgysylltu gan y ffederasiwn fferyllol rhyngwladol, mae Diwrnod Fferyllwyr y Byd yn tynnu sylw at y gwaith amrywiol y mae fferyllwyr yn ei wneud mewn amryw o wledydd. Er enghraifft, yn Affrica, mae fferyllwyr yn darparu seminarau addysg iechyd ac yn rheoli clinigau ar gyfer clefydau cronig fel anhwylderau iechyd meddwl, HIV, diabetes a phwysedd gwaed uchel.

Yn benodol i ni yng Nghymru, mae fferyllwyr yn chwarae rôl allweddol yn darparu gwasanaethau'r GIG, o bigiadau ffliw ac archwiliadau iechyd i gyngor ar bob math o afiechydon a mân anafiadau, fel y gwasanaeth profi a thrin dolur gwddf. A gwn, fel mam, fy mod yn y fferyllfa yn gofyn am help yn gyson pan oedd fy mhlant yn ifanc. Pobl ryfeddol.

Felly, gyda'r pwyslais ar annog pobl i ddewis yn dda ac i geisio cymorth gan y lefel briodol o wasanaeth yn dibynnu ar eu hangen, mae thema Diwrnod Fferyllwyr y Byd eleni, sef meddyginiaethau diogel ac effeithiol i bawb, yn hyrwyddo'r rôl hanfodol y mae fferyllwyr yn ei chwarae yn sicrhau diogelwch cleifion drwy wella'r defnydd o feddyginiaethau a lleihau camgymeriadau meddyginiaethol.

Mae'r gwasanaeth adolygu meddyginiaethau wrth ryddhau yng Nghymru yn enghraifft wych o ble y caiff camgymeriadau meddyginiaethol eu lleihau drwy ddefnyddio data, ond mae mwy i'w wneud ac arferion gorau i'w rhannu. Felly, Aelodau, hoffwn ofyn i bob un ohonoch gydnabod y rôl y mae fferyllwyr yn ei chwarae yn darparu gofal iechyd diogel ac effeithiol, ac i fferyllwyr ledled Cymru, ar ran pob un ohonom mae'n debyg, rwy'n dweud 'diolch o galon'.

15:25
5. Dadl ar Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau: Hawliau Pleidleisio i Garcharorion
5. Debate on the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee report: Voting Rights for Prisoners

Yr eitem nesaf, eitem 5, yw'r ddadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau ar hawliau pleidleisio i garcharorion. Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i wneud y cynnig—John Griffiths. 

The next item, item 5, is the debate on the Equality, Local Government and communities Committee report on voting rights for prisoners. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—John Griffiths.

Cynnig NDM7139 John Griffiths

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau, 'Hawliau Pleidleisio i Garcharorion', a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 11 Mehefin 2019. 

Motion NDM7139 John Griffiths

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee, 'Voting rights for prisoners', which was laid in the Table Office on 11 June 2019.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr. I'm pleased to open today's debate on the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee's report on voting rights for prisoners.

I would like to start by thanking all those who contributed to our inquiry, either by giving written or oral evidence; the members of the public who contributed to our online discussion forum, and the respectful manner in which differences of opinion were discussed and debated, especially as these are matters of some controversy; and the prison staff and prisoners we spoke to during our visits to Her Majesty's Prison Parc and to Her Majesty's Prison Eastwood Park. Both gave us a real insight into the practicalities of introducing any change, but also enabled us to explore the broader points of principle with those most affected by any change, prisoners themselves. They were interesting and informative discussions. 

Having taken evidence, and after very careful consideration and weighing up of the ethical, practical and legal arguments, the majority of the committee recommended giving more prisoners the vote. As I said earlier, this is, of course, a controversial issue, and we were very conscious of the impact any change might have on victims of crime and explored this with all our witnesses. 

Part of the background to these matters is the ruling that the UK Government was in breach of the European convention on human rights by having a blanket ban on prisoner voting. Limited changes were then introduced, allowing prisoners on remand and on temporary licence, for example, to vote. The European Court of Human Rights has been clear that the right to vote is not a privilege. It has said that the presumption should be for including as many people as possible in democracy. Prisoners retain other rights when they enter prison. They may lose their liberty, but they do not lose their basic rights. I believe voting is such a right. 

One of the most compelling arguments we heard was that prisoners remain citizens of society. This was something that came across very strongly during our discussions at the prisons. We heard that many strive to stay an active part of their families' lives, despite the physical barriers. Llywydd, I would say that criminal justice policy in the UK results in overcrowded prisons, a lack of rehabilitation and high reoffending rates and that more effective reintegration into society means less crime and fewer victims of crime. It benefits our communities in general as well as ex-offenders and their families. Voting may be a small but significant signal towards a more enlightened and productive approach.

Removing the right to vote is also part of a process that treats prisoners as outsiders: they are not like the rest of us and should be treated differently. This is not good for them and not good for wider society. It hinders the process of reform and does not help with reducing reoffending or social cohesion. Many stakeholders told us they believe enfranchisement would help. Lady Hale, now President of the UK Supreme Court, as we've heard quite a lot about recently, said that retaining the vote would encourage civic responsibility and reintegration. It is also an important symbol. While there is not extensive empirical evidence to support this view, we were persuaded by the stakeholders who said that greater inclusion when in prison would help rehabilitation upon release. There are also a number of other arguments that informed our final views, such as international precedent, and the disproportionate effect the ban has on certain groups of people.

Llywydd, we then needed to consider what the franchise would look like. We ruled out basing it on the type of offence or release date, and settled on sentence length. I, along with some of the members of the committee, supported full enfranchisement. However, after careful discussion, we decided to recommend including prisoners serving sentences of less than four years. We felt that this was a suitable compromise that balanced the need for a simple electoral franchise; is easy to understand, which was a very strong theme throughout our evidence; is mindful of acknowledging the view of public opinion, which is against all prisoners having the right to vote; and ensures compliance with the European court judgment. It also recognises the significance the criminal justice system accords to four-year sentences, which are subject to less favourable terms for early release.

Llywydd, I'm very pleased that the Welsh Government has accepted our key recommendation and will be seeking to legislate to make changes for both Assembly and local government elections. I believe this shows real political leadership, and indicates that Wales remains at the forefront of respecting human rights. I would, however, like to seek some further clarity. The Llywydd and the Minister confirmed in correspondence that changes to the Assembly franchise will be taken forward by the Welsh Government. In her letter, the Minister said she would be seeking an appropriate legislative vehicle. But while she committed to changing the franchise for local government in this Assembly term, there is not the same commitment for the Assembly. So, Minister, I would be grateful if you could provide some clarity on your thinking on this, and whether the change will be in place for the next Assembly elections in 2021. The current provisions in the Government of Wales Act 2006 clearly link the Assembly and local government electoral franchises. If, Minister, you are not making the changes to both at the same time, can you outline if you are seeking to decouple them on a temporary basis? It is worth noting the evidence we received from the Electoral Commission that they should be consistent.

While I have focused then on the broader issues of whether prisoners should have the vote, our report also looked at the practicalities around method of voting, information and campaigning. I would ask the Minister to give an update on how discussions with the UK Government on the issues raised by the committee in recommendations 5, 6 and 10 are progressing. These specifically relate to designating an election co-ordinator within the prison staff, ensuring that all eligible prisoners are registered to vote and are supported to take part in relevant elections, and providing access to Welsh media for those prisons with a sizeable Welsh population.

Llywydd, I now look forward to hearing other Members' views on these important matters. I'm sure it will be an interesting debate because this has been a very interesting piece of work for the committee, and, I'm sure, for Assembly Members in general.

Diolch yn fawr. Rwy’n falch o agor y ddadl heddiw ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cymunedau, Cydraddoldeb a Llywodraeth Leol ar hawliau pleidleisio i garcharorion.

Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddiolch i bawb a gyfrannodd at ein hymchwiliad, naill ai drwy roi tystiolaeth ysgrifenedig neu ar lafar; aelodau'r cyhoedd a gyfrannodd at ein fforwm trafod ar-lein, a'r ffordd barchus y trafodwyd ac y cynhaliwyd dadleuon ar wahaniaethau barn, yn enwedig gan fod y materion hyn yn ddadleuol iawn; a staff y carchar a'r carcharorion y buom yn siarad â hwy yn ystod ein hymweliadau â Charchar Ei Mawrhydi y Parc a Charchar Ei Mawrhydi Eastwood Park. Mae’r ddau wedi rhoi cipolwg go iawn inni ar ymarferoldeb cyflwyno unrhyw newid, ond maent hefyd wedi ein galluogi i archwilio’r egwyddorion ehangach gyda'r rhai yr effeithir arnynt fwyaf gan unrhyw newid, y carcharorion eu hunain. Roeddent yn drafodaethau diddorol ac addysgiadol.

Ar ôl derbyn tystiolaeth, ac ar ôl ystyried a phwyso a mesur y dadleuon moesegol, ymarferol a chyfreithiol yn ofalus iawn, argymhellodd y rhan fwyaf o’r pwyllgor y dylid rhoi'r bleidlais i fwy o garcharorion. Fel y dywedais yn gynharach, mae hwn, wrth gwrs, yn fater dadleuol, ac roeddem yn ymwybodol iawn o'r effaith y gallai unrhyw newid ei chael ar ddioddefwyr troseddau, ac archwiliwyd hyn gyda'n holl dystion.

Rhan o gefndir y materion hyn yw'r dyfarniad fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi mynd yn groes i’r confensiwn Ewropeaidd ar hawliau dynol drwy gael gwaharddiad cyffredinol ar y bleidlais i garcharorion. Yna, cyflwynwyd newidiadau cyfyngedig, gan ganiatáu i garcharorion ar remánd ac ar drwydded dros dro, er enghraifft, bleidleisio. Mae Llys Hawliau Dynol Ewrop wedi dweud yn glir nad braint yw'r hawl i bleidleisio. Maent wedi dweud y dylid cael rhagdybiaeth lle y cynhwysir cymaint o bobl â phosibl mewn democratiaeth. Mae carcharorion yn cadw hawliau eraill pan fyddant yn mynd i'r carchar. Efallai eu bod yn colli eu rhyddid, ond nid ydynt yn colli eu hawliau sylfaenol. Credaf fod pleidleisio yn hawl o’r fath.

Un o'r dadleuon mwyaf cymhellol a glywsom oedd fod carcharorion yn parhau i fod yn ddinasyddion cymdeithas. Roedd hyn yn rhywbeth a gafodd ei gyfleu’n gryf iawn yn ystod ein trafodaethau yn y carchardai. Clywsom fod llawer yn ymdrechu i barhau i fod yn rhan weithredol o fywydau eu teuluoedd, er gwaethaf y rhwystrau corfforol. Lywydd, buaswn yn dweud bod polisi cyfiawnder troseddol yn y DU yn arwain at garchardai gorlawn, diffyg adsefydlu a chyfraddau aildroseddu uchel, a bod ailintegreiddio mwy effeithiol i'r gymdeithas yn golygu llai o droseddu a llai o ddioddefwyr troseddau. Mae o fudd i'n cymunedau yn gyffredinol, yn ogystal â chyn-droseddwyr a'u teuluoedd. Gall pleidleisio fod yn arwydd bach ond arwyddocaol o ymagwedd fwy goleuedig a chynhyrchiol.

Mae cael gwared ar yr hawl i bleidleisio hefyd yn rhan o broses sy'n trin carcharorion fel dieithriaid: nid ydynt fel y gweddill ohonom a dylent gael eu trin yn wahanol. Nid yw hyn yn dda iddynt hwy ac nid yw'n dda i'r gymdeithas ehangach. Mae'n rhwystro'r broses adsefydlu ac nid yw'n helpu i leihau cyfraddau aildroseddu na chydlyniant cymdeithasol. Dywedodd llawer o randdeiliaid wrthym eu bod yn credu y byddai rhyddfreinio yn helpu. Dywedodd y Foneddiges Hale, sydd bellach yn Llywydd Goruchaf Lys y DU, y clywsom gryn dipyn amdano yn ddiweddar, y byddai cadw'r bleidlais yn annog cyfrifoldeb dinesig ac ailintegreiddio. Mae hefyd yn symbol pwysig. Er nad oes llawer o dystiolaeth empirig i gefnogi'r farn hon, cawsom ein perswadio gan y rhanddeiliaid a ddywedodd y byddai mwy o gynhwysiant pan fydd pobl yn y carchar yn helpu’r broses o adsefydlu ar ôl iddynt gael eu ryddhau. Llywiodd nifer o ddadleuon eraill ein barn derfynol, megis cynsail ryngwladol, a'r effaith anghymesur y mae'r gwaharddiad yn ei chael ar rai grwpiau o bobl.

Lywydd, roedd angen i ni ystyried wedyn sut beth fyddai'r etholfraint. Diystyrwyd ei seilio ar y math o drosedd neu ddyddiad rhyddhau, a chytunwyd i'w seilio ar hyd y ddedfryd. Ynghyd â rhai o aelodau’r pwyllgor, roeddwn yn cefnogi rhyddfreinio llawn. Fodd bynnag, ar ôl trafod yn ofalus, fe benderfynwyd argymell cynnwys carcharorion sy'n bwrw dedfrydau o lai na phedair blynedd. Roeddem yn teimlo bod hwn yn gyfaddawd addas a oedd yn cydbwyso'r angen am etholfraint etholiadol syml; un sy'n hawdd ei deall, a oedd yn thema gref iawn drwy gydol ein tystiolaeth; yn ystyriol o farn y cyhoedd, sydd yn erbyn rhoi’r hawl i bob carcharor bleidleisio; ac yn sicrhau cydymffurfiaeth â dyfarniad llys Ewrop. Mae hefyd yn cydnabod pa mor arwyddocaol yw dedfrydau pedair blynedd yn y system cyfiawnder troseddol, gan fod y carcharorion hyn yn wynebu telerau llai ffafriol ar gyfer cael eu rhyddhau'n gynnar.

Lywydd, rwy'n falch iawn fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn ein hargymhelliad allweddol ac y bydd yn ceisio deddfu i wneud newidiadau ar gyfer etholiadau'r Cynulliad a llywodraeth leol. Credaf fod hyn yn dangos arweinyddiaeth wleidyddol go iawn, ac yn nodi bod Cymru’n parhau i fod ar flaen y gad o ran parchu hawliau dynol. Fodd bynnag, hoffwn rywfaint o eglurder pellach. Cadarnhaodd y Llywydd a'r Gweinidog mewn gohebiaeth y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru’n bwrw ymlaen â newidiadau i etholfraint y Cynulliad. Yn ei llythyr, dywedodd y Gweinidog y byddai'n ceisio cyfrwng deddfwriaethol priodol. Ond er iddi ymrwymo i newid yr etholfraint ar gyfer llywodraeth leol yn nhymor y Cynulliad hwn, ni chafwyd yr un ymrwymiad ar gyfer y Cynulliad. Felly, Weinidog, buaswn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech ddarparu rhywfaint o eglurder ynghylch eich syniadau ar hyn, ac a fydd y newid ar waith ar gyfer etholiadau nesaf y Cynulliad yn 2021. Mae'r darpariaethau cyfredol yn Neddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006 yn cysylltu etholfreintiau etholiadol y Cynulliad a llywodraeth leol yn glir. Os nad ydych yn gwneud y newidiadau i'r ddau ar yr un pryd, Weinidog, a allwch amlinellu a ydych yn ceisio’u datgysylltu dros dro? Mae'n werth nodi'r dystiolaeth a gawsom gan y Comisiwn Etholiadol y dylent fod yn gyson.

Er fy mod wedi canolbwyntio, felly, ar y materion ehangach ynglŷn ag a ddylai carcharorion gael pleidleisio, edrychodd ein hadroddiad hefyd ar ymarferoldeb y dull o bleidleisio, gwybodaeth ac ymgyrchu. Buaswn yn gofyn i'r Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ynglŷn â sut y mae trafodaethau gyda Llywodraeth y DU ar y materion a godwyd gan y pwyllgor yn argymhellion 5, 6 a 10 yn mynd rhagddynt. Mae'r rhain yn ymwneud yn benodol â dynodi cydgysylltydd etholiadau o blith staff y carchar, sicrhau bod pob carcharor cymwys wedi'u cofrestru i bleidleisio a'u bod yn cael eu cefnogi i gymryd rhan mewn etholiadau perthnasol, a darparu mynediad at gyfryngau Cymru yn y carchardai sydd â phoblogaeth gymharol fawr o Gymry.

Lywydd, edrychaf ymlaen yn awr at glywed barn yr Aelodau eraill ar y materion pwysig hyn. Rwy'n siŵr y bydd yn ddadl ddiddorol, gan fod hwn wedi bod yn waith diddorol iawn i'r pwyllgor, ac i Aelodau'r Cynulliad yn gyffredinol, rwy'n siŵr.

15:30

Daeth Joyce Watson i’r Gadair.

Joyce Watson took the Chair.

Prison is the sharp end of our justice system, and an important and integral part of the criminal justice system in every country. Depriving someone of their liberty for a period of time is one of the most significant powers available to the state. Prison plays a crucial role in upholding the rule of law, by helping to ensure that alleged offenders are brought to justice, and by providing a sanction for serious wrongdoing. Its core purpose is threefold: protection of the public; punishment, depriving offenders of freedoms enjoyed by the rest of society and acting as a deterrent; and rehabilitation, providing offenders with the opportunity to reflect on and take responsibility for their crimes, and prepare them for a law-abiding life when they're released.

As we heard in Parc prison, few prisoners would either use a right to vote or see it as an incentive to rehabilitate. The committee admits in the report that the empirical evidence to support the theory that voting aids rehabilitation is 'limited'. The report also notes that when Cardiff prison took steps to encourage prisoners on remand to register to vote at the last election, not one took up the opportunity. Our focus should instead be on giving offenders opportunities to build positive lives. Rights go with responsibilities, and not voting is just one of the facts of life arising from being in prison, reflecting a decision by the community that the person concerned is not suitable to participate in the decision-making process of a community.

Following the European Court judgment referred to, some 17 per cent of prisoners are already eligible to vote. Prisoners in the community, on a temporary licence, can now vote, and both unconvicted prisoners being held on remand and civil prisoners jailed for offences such as contempt of court also already have the right to vote, although very few do. The UK Government has also said that it should be made more clear to people given prison sentences that they will not have the right to vote while in prison.

This report quotes a Welsh Government consultation, in which 50 per cent agreed that prisoners should be allowed to register to vote, and an Assembly Commission consultation, in which 49 per cent agreed that prisoners should be able to vote in Assembly elections if they were due for release during the period for which Members were being elected to serve. However, both these consultation responses were self-selective, rather than weighted representative samples. In contrast, only 9 per cent of people in Wales said that all prisoners should be allowed to vote in a 2017 YouGov survey.

It is not having boundaries that contributes to offending, but a lack of them. It is concerning that some committee members believed in the principle of votes for all prisoners. But despite that, the committee, as we've heard, only recommended that the Welsh Government and National Assembly legislate to give Welsh prisoners serving custodial sentences of less than four years the right to vote in devolved elections. For the reasons already outlined, Mohammad Asghar and I could not agree with that recommendation.

Responding to this report, the Welsh Government stated that it will work to introduce legislation in this Assembly to enable prisoners from Wales serving a custodial sentence of less than four years to vote in devolved local government elections. Responding on behalf of the Assembly Commission, the Llywydd stated that it does not consider that amendments should be introduced to the Senedd and Elections (Wales) Bill to address this issue. In a letter to the committee Chair last week, the Welsh Government added that it is committed to the principle of prisoner voting in all local elections, and it will seek an appropriate legislative vehicle at the earliest opportunity to enable prisoners from Wales to vote in Assembly elections on the same terms as will apply for local government elections.

To be clear, according to the Law Pages, giving the vote to prisoners serving a custodial sentence of less than four years will include those convicted of having a blade or sharp point in a public place, racially aggravated common assault, racially aggravated criminal damage, procurement of a woman by threats, attempted incest by a man with a girl over 13, abduction of an unmarried girl, causing prostitution of women, soliciting by men, ill-treatment of patients, assault with intent to resist arrest, and procuring others to commit homosexual acts, and many more. It is this that Labour and Plaid Cymru are supporting, further evidencing, dare I say, the growing gap between the expressed will of the people of Wales and their elected so-called representatives here.

Carchar yw pen eithaf ein system gyfiawnder, ac mae'n rhan bwysig ac annatod o'r system cyfiawnder troseddol ym mhob gwlad. Amddifadu rhywun o'i ryddid am gyfnod yw un o'r pwerau mwyaf arwyddocaol sydd ar gael i'r wladwriaeth. Mae carchar yn chwarae rhan hollbwysig yn y gwaith o gynnal rheolaeth y gyfraith, drwy helpu i sicrhau bod troseddwyr honedig yn cael eu dwyn o flaen eu gwell, a thrwy ddarparu cosb am gamymddwyn difrifol. Mae iddo dri diben craidd: amddiffyn y cyhoedd; cosbi, gan amddifadu troseddwyr o ryddid a fwynheir gan weddill cymdeithas a gweithredu fel ataliad; ac adsefydlu, gan roi cyfle i droseddwyr ystyried eu troseddau a chymryd cyfrifoldeb amdanynt, a'u paratoi ar gyfer bywyd sy'n parchu'r gyfraith ar ôl eu rhyddhau.

Fel y clywsom yng ngharchar y Parc, ychydig o garcharorion a fyddai naill ai'n defnyddio'r hawl i bleidleisio neu'n ei gweld fel ysgogiad i adsefydlu. Mae'r pwyllgor yn cyfaddef yn yr adroddiad fod y dystiolaeth empirig sy'n cefnogi'r ddamcaniaeth fod pleidleisio'n help i adsefydlu yn 'gyfyngedig'. Mae'r adroddiad hefyd yn nodi, pan roddodd carchar Caerdydd gamau ar waith i annog carcharorion ar remánd i gofrestru i bleidleisio yn yr etholiad diwethaf, ni fanteisiodd yr un ohonynt ar y cyfle. Yn hytrach, dylem ganolbwyntio ar roi cyfleoedd i droseddwyr adeiladu bywydau cadarnhaol. Daw hawliau law yn llaw â chyfrifoldebau, a dim ond un o ffeithiau bywyd sy'n deillio o fod yn y carchar yw peidio â phleidleisio, gan adlewyrchu penderfyniad gan y gymuned nad yw'r unigolyn dan sylw yn addas i gymryd rhan ym mhroses cymuned o wneud penderfyniadau.

Yn dilyn y dyfarniad y cyfeiriwyd ato yn Llys Ewrop, mae tua 17 y cant o garcharorion eisoes yn gymwys i bleidleisio. Gall carcharorion yn y gymuned, ar drwydded dros dro, bleidleisio erbyn hyn, ac mae hawl eisoes gan garcharorion heb eu collfarnu sy'n cael eu cadw ar remánd a charcharorion sifil a garcharwyd am droseddau megis dirmyg llys i bleidleisio, er mai ychydig iawn ohonynt sy'n gwneud. Mae Llywodraeth y DU hefyd wedi dweud y dylid ei gwneud yn fwy eglur i bobl sy'n cael dedfryd o garchar na fydd ganddynt hawl i bleidleisio tra byddant yn y carchar.

Mae'r adroddiad hwn yn dyfynnu un o ymgynghoriadau Llywodraeth Cymru, lle y cytunodd 50 y cant y dylid caniatáu i garcharorion gofrestru i bleidleisio, ac ymgynghoriad gan Gomisiwn y Cynulliad, lle'r oedd 49 y cant yn cytuno y dylai carcharorion allu pleidleisio yn etholiadau'r Cynulliad os oedd disgwyl iddynt gael eu rhyddhau yn ystod y cyfnod pan oedd Aelodau'n cael eu hethol i wasanaethu. Fodd bynnag, roedd y ddau ymateb i'r ymgynghoriad yn rhai hunanddetholus, yn hytrach na samplau cynrychiadol wedi'u pwysoli. Mewn cyferbyniad, mewn arolwg YouGov yn 2017, dim ond 9 y cant o bobl yng Nghymru a ddywedodd y dylid caniatáu i bob carcharor bleidleisio.

Nid cael terfynau sy'n cyfrannu at droseddu, ond diffyg terfynau. Mae'n peri pryder fod rhai aelodau o'r pwyllgor yn credu yn yr egwyddor o bleidleisiau i bob carcharor. Ond er gwaethaf hynny, fel y clywsom, dim ond argymell bod Llywodraeth Cymru a'r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn deddfu i roi hawl i garcharorion o Gymry sy'n bwrw dedfryd o garchar o lai na phedair blynedd i bleidleisio mewn etholiadau datganoledig a wnaeth y pwyllgor. Am y rhesymau a amlinellwyd eisoes, ni allai Mohammad Asghar a minnau gytuno â'r argymhelliad hwnnw.

Wrth ymateb i'r adroddiad, nododd Llywodraeth Cymru y bydd yn gweithio i gyflwyno deddfwriaeth yn y Cynulliad hwn i alluogi carcharorion o Gymru sy'n bwrw dedfryd o garchar o lai na phedair blynedd i bleidleisio mewn etholiadau llywodraeth leol datganoledig. Wrth ymateb ar ran Comisiwn y Cynulliad, dywedodd y Llywydd nad yw'n credu y dylid cyflwyno gwelliannau i'r Bil Senedd ac Etholiadau (Cymru) er mwyn mynd i'r afael â'r mater hwn. Mewn llythyr at Gadeirydd y pwyllgor yr wythnos diwethaf, ychwanegodd Llywodraeth Cymru ei bod wedi ymrwymo i'r egwyddor o hawl pleidleisio i garcharorion ym mhob etholiad lleol, a bydd yn chwilio am gyfrwng deddfwriaethol priodol ar y cyfle cyntaf i alluogi carcharorion o Gymru i bleidleisio yn etholiadau'r Cynulliad ar yr un telerau â'r rhai a fydd yn berthnasol ar gyfer etholiadau llywodraeth leol.

Er mwyn bod yn glir, yn ôl y Law Pages, bydd rhoi'r bleidlais i garcharorion sy'n bwrw dedfryd o garchar o lai na phedair blynedd yn cynnwys y rhai a gafwyd yn euog o fod â llafn neu arf miniog mewn man cyhoeddus, ymosodiad cyffredin gwaethygedig ar sail hil, difrod troseddol gwaethygedig ar sail hil, caffael dynes drwy fygythiadau, ymgais i gyflawni llosgach gan ddyn gyda merch dros 13 oed, cipio merch ddi-briod, achosi puteinio gan fenywod, llithio gan ddynion, trin cleifion yn wael, ymosod gyda'r bwriad o wrthsefyll arestiad, a chaffael eraill i gyflawni gweithredoedd cyfunrhywiol, a llawer iawn mwy. Dyma'r hyn y mae'r Blaid Lafur a Phlaid Cymru yn ei gefnogi, gan roi tystiolaeth bellach, os caf ddweud, o'r bwlch cynyddol rhwng ewyllys pobl Cymru a'u cynrychiolwyr honedig a etholwyd i'r lle hwn.

15:35

I'm pleased that we're having this debate, and I'm just really disappointed at the Conservatives' contribution, not just today, but in the inquiry as well. I must admit that when our committee embarked on this inquiry I was sceptical. As a former probation officer, who keeps a keen interest in the justice system even though it isn't devolved, I thought it would be odd for us, as a committee, to rock up to various prisons to talk to prisoners about something that was in our interest. We're well aware of the range of problems that prisoners face, from homelessness to drug and alcohol problems, mental health, family breakdown, abuse, domestic violence, yet we were not going to the prisons to talk to people about those issues, we were asking prisoners and staff instead about their views on voting, presumably for us. I have to say that I felt a bit uncomfortable about it all. But how wrong could I be?

It soon became clear, on our visits, to HMP Parc and HMP Eastwood Park that some of these prisoners could see a way through our inquiry of putting their concerns on the agenda by having the vote. At present, who is listening to them? Do they have a voice at all? No, they don't. Prisoners have been forgotten and marginalised by policy makers, politicians and wider society, and here we have an opportunity to do something to change that.

There are disagreements as to the purpose of prison. Is prison solely about punishment? Should we make life in prison so awful for people that they would see it as a deterrent and be absolutely determined never to go back? If that's how we see it, then conditions and rights don't matter. Yet people then end up wondering why people who go through the prison system come out more damaged and more criminally inclined. Prison without a rehabilitation element is little more than a crime factory.

My view is that prison should not only be a punishment, but it should also be a tool to protect the public and to try and rehabilitate the person so that they don't commit further offences on release. A rehabilitative approach results in lower crime and a safer society, as any honest comparison between Scandinavian countries and the UK would reveal. We should be aiming to reduce the prison population by rehabilitating more people and treating people like the citizens that they are and that we want them to be. It is for these reasons that I support extending the franchise to prisoners and I endorse the recommendations of this committee report.

Being given the opportunity to vote is a reminder to prisoners that they are still a citizen despite being punished for a crime. It's a reminder that they are going to be released one day and that there are expectations on them as a citizen. Being allowed to put that cross in that box can help to reintegrate and include prisoners in wider society.

For me, although I was initially sceptical as to the usefulness of this inquiry to the prison population, I became more and more convinced that it was the right thing to do. It is nothing short of a scandal that if you are a woman sentenced to prison that you have to be incarcerated in another country with no access to your family, to the Welsh news, to your rehabilitation network and that alone should be a good enough reason to devolve the criminal justice system, so that we can do something just about that.

Voting is not a privilege and it shouldn't be seen as such. Voting is something that we should want all of our citizens to be doing. For me, this is a question where Wales could signal that we could things differently, more humanely with more compassion. This report gives the Government such an opportunity and I very much hope it takes it up.

Rwy'n falch ein bod ni'n cael y ddadl hon, ac rwy'n siomedig iawn ynglŷn â chyfraniad y Ceidwadwyr, nid yn unig heddiw, ond yn yr ymchwiliad hefyd. Rhaid i mi gyfaddef fy mod yn amheus pan ddechreuodd ein pwyllgor yr ymchwiliad hwn. Fel cyn-swyddog prawf, sydd â diddordeb brwd yn y system gyfiawnder er nad yw wedi'i datganoli, roeddwn yn credu y byddai'n rhyfedd i ni, fel pwyllgor, ymweld â gwahanol garchardai i siarad â charcharorion am rywbeth a oedd er ein lles ni. Rydym yn ymwybodol iawn o ystod y problemau y mae carcharorion yn eu hwynebu, o ddigartrefedd i broblemau cyffuriau ac alcohol, iechyd meddwl, chwalfa deuluol, cam-drin, trais yn y cartref, ac eto nid oeddem yn mynd i'r carchardai i siarad â phobl am y materion hynny, ond yn hytrach, roeddem yn gofyn i garcharorion a staff am eu barn ar bleidleisio, drosom ni mae'n debyg. Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud i mi deimlo braidd yn anghyfforddus am y cyfan. Ond roeddwn i'n anghywir.

Daeth yn amlwg yn fuan yn ystod ein hymweliadau â charchar Parc a charchar Eastwood Park y gallai rhai o'r carcharorion hyn weld ffordd drwy ein hymchwiliad o roi eu pryderon ar yr agenda drwy gael y bleidlais. Ar hyn o bryd, pwy sy'n gwrando arnynt? A oes ganddynt lais o gwbl? Nac oes. Mae carcharorion wedi cael eu hanghofio a'u bwrw i'r cyrion gan lunwyr polisi, gwleidyddion a'r gymdeithas ehangach, ac yma mae gennym gyfle i wneud rhywbeth i newid hynny.

Mae pobl yn anghytuno ynghylch diben carchar. Ai ymwneud yn unig â chosbi y mae carchar? A ddylem wneud bywyd yn y carchar mor ofnadwy i bobl fel y byddent yn ei weld fel ataliad ac yn gwbl benderfynol o beidio â mynd yn ôl? Os mai dyna sut y'i gwelwn, nid yw amodau a hawliau yn bwysig. Ac eto, mae pobl yn meddwl pam y mae pobl sy'n mynd drwy system y carchardai'n dod allan wedi'u niweidio fwy ac yn tueddu i fod yn fwy troseddol. Nid yw carchar heb elfen adsefydlu yn fawr mwy na ffatri droseddau.

Yn fy marn i, dylai carchar fod yn gosb, ond dylai hefyd fod yn offeryn i ddiogelu'r cyhoedd a cheisio adsefydlu'r unigolyn fel nad yw'n cyflawni rhagor o droseddau ar ôl ei ryddhau. Mae dull adsefydlu yn arwain at lai o droseddu a chymdeithas fwy diogel, fel y byddai unrhyw gymhariaeth onest rhwng gwledydd Sgandinafia a'r DU yn ei ddangos. Dylem anelu at leihau poblogaeth y carchardai drwy adsefydlu mwy o bobl a thrin pobl fel y dinasyddion ag yr ydynt a'r dinasyddion yr ydym eisiau iddynt fod. Am y rhesymau hyn rwy'n cefnogi ymestyn yr etholfraint i gynnwys carcharorion ac rwy'n cymeradwyo argymhellion yr adroddiad pwyllgor hwn.

Mae cael y cyfle i bleidleisio yn atgoffa carcharorion eu bod yn dal yn ddinasyddion er iddynt gael eu cosbi am droseddu. Mae'n eu hatgoffa eu bod yn mynd i gael eu rhyddhau un diwrnod a bod disgwyliadau arnynt fel dinasyddion. Gall cael y cyfle i roi croes yn y blwch helpu i ailintegreiddio a chynnwys carcharorion yn y gymdeithas ehangach.

I mi, er fy mod yn amheus i ddechrau ynghylch defnyddioldeb yr ymchwiliad hwn i boblogaeth y carchardai, deuthum yn fwyfwy argyhoeddedig mai dyma oedd y peth cywir i'w wneud. Os ydych yn fenyw a ddedfrydwyd i'r carchar, mae'n warthus fod yn rhaid i chi gael eich carcharu mewn gwlad arall heb fynediad at eich teulu, at y newyddion o Gymru, at eich rhwydwaith adsefydlu, a dylai hynny ynddo'i hun fod yn rheswm digon da dros ddatganoli'r system cyfiawnder troseddol, er mwyn inni allu gwneud rhywbeth am hynny.

Nid braint yw pleidleisio ac ni ddylai gael ei ystyried felly. Mae pleidleisio'n rhywbeth y dylem fod eisiau i bob un o'n dinasyddion ei wneud. I mi, mae hwn yn gwestiwn lle y gallai Cymru ddangos y gallem wneud pethau'n wahanol, yn fwy trugarog, gyda mwy o dosturi. Mae'r adroddiad hwn yn rhoi cyfle i'r Llywodraeth ac rwy'n mawr obeithio y bydd yn manteisio arno.

15:40

I'm delighted to speak in support of the recommendations that came out of this committee, and to welcome as well the way in which John stewarded this committee. We heard an immense amount of evidence—those people who came in front of us, the visits that we made as well, where we spoke with prison governors, prison staff, front-line staff and also with people who are incarcerated themselves. I want to thank all those people who gave evidence, but particularly the way in which Members dealt with hearing that evidence as well. There were differences of opinion on this committee—they've come out in the report in terms of the main recommendation that we've come to—but we have done it in, I think, a temperate way. We've recognised those differences. I would simply say to Mark: I'm not a so-called representative. I am a representative in this institution, as everybody else is. Don't denigrate the role of myself or others by calling me a so-called representative.

However, if I can turn to the substance there, the report is balanced, because it does actually look at the arguments for and against as well. It makes clear that, as the European Convention on Human Rights has said, voting rights are not absolute rights—universal rights. That is exactly why this committee was looking at it. To what extent do we reflect public opinion? To what extent do we want to show leadership as well? But there is clearly, also, by international evidence, but also the pressure that's been put on the UK Government over successive years and years, a mood that we should actually look at this and see how much further we could go, very much because of the arguments that Leanne and the report put, which are that, whilst it might not be a universal, absolute right, we should be looking to individuals who are in prison not as—. Some will be lifelong prisoners, and some, including women we met, who said, 'Well, I've got children outside of this prison. I'm in here for a very short time. My children are in school. My children will be receiving care while I'm away from here. I have no say whatsoever in—'. Yet, still, those people who are in prison—all of them—will pay tax on earnings, tax on savings et cetera whilst they're in. So, it's a curious anomaly.

The report is balanced. It recognises—Mark, you're absolutely right—that the public does not support voting rights for prisoners. It does also reflect that the public mood is changing, and has changed on this as well. Sometimes, there's a need for us, as elected representatives, to actually signal a course—a direction of travel. I won't embarrass the Minister, but when she came in front of us in committee, I said, 'Minister, what is your mood toward all of this?', because I was slightly sceptical. I thought the Government might park this and kick this into the long grass: 'What an interesting committee report this is. We'll come back to this in five years or 10 years' time.' And I said to her, 'Do you see yourself, possibly, being the Roy Jenkins here of the Welsh Government Ministers on this issue?'—not that you should go above and beyond, and not that you should try and be cavalier in the way—. But look at the evidence and decide what is the right, progressive policy that balances those interests of people like the victims' commissioner, who came in front of us and spoke quite passionately about her concerns about the victims' side, but also very much that issue of rehabilitation—the fact that these people remain citizens, because they are paying tax, they have children outside in schools et cetera. So, I think it's quite balanced.

Now, the compromise we came to is a compromise. There were different views on the committee. There were those of us who supported, for simplicity but also on basic principles, the actual universal extension of that suffrage within there. Many of the witnesses who appeared in front of us actually supported that as well, for the very same reasons. But we recognised that, on the committee, because there were such differences of opinion, we should look at something that was practical, that was simple, that was deliverable and that wasn't overcomplex. We looked at many different possibilities within that, and the one we've settled on, of sentences of four years or less, gives that, I think, simplicity and clarity, and it gives that clear message that Wales, even if the UK Government won't move, could actually move forward and show a clear signal that we believe in the principles of rehabilitation—in the principles that these people, many of whom will be passing through prison, will be back living with us, alongside us and reintegrated in society, and bringing their children up and working in careers and so on and so forth. I think that's an important principle.

So, I welcome this and I welcome the response of the Government as well. My only query would be to echo what the Chair has said: what are we talking here about timescales of taking this forward? I think there is an opportunity here for the Welsh Government to show some leadership on this and, perhaps, who knows, the UK Government will follow suit in due course.

Mae'n bleser gennyf siarad o blaid yr argymhellion a ddeilliodd o'r pwyllgor hwn, a chroesawu hefyd y modd y bu i John stiwardio'r pwyllgor hwn. Clywsom lawer iawn o dystiolaeth—y bobl a ddaeth ger ein bron, yr ymweliadau a wnaethom hefyd, lle buom yn siarad â llywodraethwyr carchardai, staff carchardai, staff rheng flaen a hefyd â phobl sydd wedi'u carcharu eu hunain. Rwyf am ddiolch i'r holl bobl a roddodd dystiolaeth, ond yn enwedig am y modd yr ymdriniodd yr Aelodau â chlywed y dystiolaeth honno hefyd. Roedd gwahaniaeth barn ar y pwyllgor hwn—gwelwyd hynny yn yr adroddiad, o ran ein prif argymhelliad—ond fe'i gwnaethom mewn ffordd gymesur, rwy'n credu. Rydym wedi cydnabod y gwahaniaethau hynny. Hoffwn ddweud wrth Mark: nid cynrychiolydd honedig ydw i. Rwy'n gynrychiolydd yn y sefydliad hwn, fel y mae pawb arall. Peidiwch â difrïo fy rôl i ac eraill drwy fy ngalw'n gynrychiolydd honedig.

Fodd bynnag, os caf droi at y sylwedd, mae'r adroddiad yn gytbwys, oherwydd mae'n edrych ar y dadleuon o blaid ac yn erbyn hefyd. Mae'n egluro, fel y mae'r Confensiwn Ewropeaidd ar Hawliau Dynol wedi'i ddweud, nad yw hawliau pleidleisio yn hawliau absoliwt—hawliau cyffredinol. Dyna'n union pam yr edrychai'r pwyllgor hwn arno. I ba raddau yr adlewyrchwn farn y cyhoedd? I ba raddau y dymunwn ddangos arweinyddiaeth hefyd? Ond ceir teimlad amlwg hefyd, drwy dystiolaeth ryngwladol, ond hefyd y pwysau sydd wedi'i roi ar Lywodraeth y DU dros lawer o flynyddoedd, y dylem edrych ar hyn a gweld faint ymhellach y gallem fynd, yn enwedig oherwydd y dadleuon y nododd Leanne a'r adroddiad, sef, er efallai nad yw'n hawl gyffredinol i bawb, yn hawl absoliwt, dylem fod yn edrych ar unigolion sydd yn y carchar nid fel—. Bydd rhai'n garcharorion gydol oes, a rhai, gan gynnwys menywod y cyfarfuom â hwy, a ddywedodd, 'Wel, mae gennyf blant y tu allan i'r carchar. Rwyf yma am gyfnod byr iawn. Mae fy mhlant yn yr ysgol. Bydd fy mhlant yn derbyn gofal tra byddaf i ffwrdd oddi yma. Nid oes gennyf unrhyw lais o gwbl yn—'. Ac eto, bydd y bobl sydd yn y carchar—bob un ohonynt—yn talu treth ar enillion, treth ar gynilion ac ati tra byddant yno. Felly, mae'n anomaledd rhyfedd.

Mae'r adroddiad yn gytbwys. Mae'n cydnabod—Mark, rydych chi'n llygad eich lle—nad yw'r cyhoedd yn cefnogi hawliau pleidleisio i garcharorion. Mae hefyd yn adlewyrchu'r ffaith bod teimladau'r cyhoedd yn newid, a'u bod wedi newid ar hyn hefyd. Weithiau, mae angen i ni, fel cynrychiolwyr etholedig, ddynodi cyfeiriad teithio. Nid wyf am greu embaras i'r Gweinidog, ond pan ddaeth hi ger ein bron yn y pwyllgor, dywedais, 'Weinidog, beth yw eich agwedd tuag at hyn i gyd?', oherwydd roeddwn i ychydig yn amheus. Roeddwn yn meddwl y gallai'r Llywodraeth adael hyn am y tro a'i roi o'r neilltu: 'Dyma adroddiad pwyllgor diddorol. Down yn ôl at hyn ymhen pum mlynedd neu 10 mlynedd.' A dywedais wrthi, 'A ydych chi'n gweld eich hun, o bosibl, yn bod yn Roy Jenkins Gweinidogion Llywodraeth Cymru ar y mater hwn?'—nid eich bod yn mynd uwchben a thu hwnt, ac nid y dylech geisio bod yn ddi-hid yn y ffordd—. Ond edrychwch ar y dystiolaeth a phenderfynwch beth yw'r polisi cywir a blaengar sy'n cydbwyso buddiannau pobl fel y comisiynydd dioddefwyr, a ddaeth ger ein bron a siarad yn angerddol am ei phryderon ynghylch ochr y dioddefwyr, ond hefyd ar fater adsefydlu—y ffaith bod y bobl hyn yn dal i fod yn ddinasyddion, am eu bod yn talu treth, mae ganddynt blant y tu allan mewn ysgolion ac ati. Felly, rwy'n credu ei fod yn eithaf cytbwys.

Nawr, cyfaddawd oedd yr hyn a gafwyd gennym. Roedd gwahanol safbwyntiau yn y pwyllgor. Roedd rhai ohonom yn cefnogi, er symlrwydd ond hefyd o ran egwyddorion sylfaenol, ymestyn y bleidlais yn gyffredinol. Roedd llawer o'r tystion a ymddangosodd ger ein bron yn cefnogi hynny hefyd, am yr un rhesymau'n union. Ond roeddem yn cydnabod, ar y pwyllgor, am fod cymaint o wahaniaeth barn, y dylem edrych ar rywbeth a oedd yn ymarferol, a oedd yn syml, y gellid ei gyflawni ac nad oedd yn rhy gymhleth. Edrychasom ar lawer o wahanol bosibiliadau o fewn hynny, ac mae'r un a ddewiswyd gennym, sef dedfrydau pedair blynedd neu lai, yn rhoi'r symlrwydd a'r eglurder hwnnw rwy'n credu, ac mae'n rhoi'r neges glir y gallai Cymru, hyd yn oed os na fydd Llywodraeth y DU yn symud, fynd ati mewn gwirionedd i symud ymlaen a dangos arwydd clir ein bod yn credu yn egwyddorion adsefydlu—yn yr egwyddorion y bydd y bobl hyn, y bydd llawer ohonynt yn mynd drwy'r carchar, yn ôl yn byw gyda ni, ochr yn ochr â ni ac wedi'u hailintegreiddio yn y gymdeithas, ac yn magu eu plant a gweithio mewn gyrfaoedd ac yn y blaen ac yn y blaen. Rwy'n credu bod honno'n egwyddor bwysig.

Felly, rwy'n croesawu hyn ac rwy'n croesawu ymateb y Llywodraeth hefyd. Fy unig ymholiad fyddai adleisio'r hyn a ddywedodd y Cadeirydd: am beth y siaradwn yma, o ran amserlenni ar gyfer bwrw ymlaen â hyn? Rwy'n credu bod cyfle yma i Lywodraeth Cymru ddangos rhywfaint o arweiniad yn hyn o beth ac efallai, pwy a ŵyr, y bydd Llywodraeth y DU yn dilyn ei hesiampl maes o law.

15:45

I thank the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee for their report on voting rights for prisoners. I was not a member of the committee during their inquiry, but had I been, I would have joined Mark Isherwood and Mohammad Asghar in opposing the recommendations. It must be noted that prisoners on remand do have the right to vote, and I do not agree with the premise that prisoners should be allowed to vote.

The right to vote, a right that people died to secure and a right that people have died to protect, is linked to our citizenship. Citizens of good standing, those who abide by the rules and laws of our society, gain the right to decide who makes the laws.

Diolch i'r Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau am eu hadroddiad ar hawliau pleidleisio i garcharorion. Nid oeddwn yn aelod o'r pwyllgor yn ystod eu hymchwiliad, ond pe bawn i wedi bod, buaswn wedi ymuno â Mark Isherwood a Mohammad Asghar i wrthwynebu'r argymhellion. Rhaid nodi bod hawl gan garcharorion ar remánd i bleidleisio, ac nid wyf yn cytuno â'r dybiaeth y dylid caniatáu i garcharorion bleidleisio.

Mae'r hawl i bleidleisio, hawl y mae pobl wedi marw i'w sicrhau a hawl y mae pobl wedi marw i'w hamddiffyn, yn gysylltiedig â'n dinasyddiaeth. Mae dinasyddion da, y rhai sy'n cydymffurfio â rheolau a chyfreithiau ein cymdeithas, yn cael hawl i benderfynu pwy sy'n llunio'r deddfau.

15:50

Caroline, I wonder if you'd give way just on that point.

Caroline, tybed a wnewch chi ildio ar y pwynt hwnnw.

It's simply to make the point: would you recognise that there is a significant proportion of the prison population that are actually ex-servicepeople? They're veterans who actually served our country on the front line, and they have got into the situation where they are in prison for a time. For us to write them off when we want them to be back and reintegrated into society is an unusual message.

Dim ond i wneud y pwynt: a fyddech yn cydnabod bod yna gyfran sylweddol o boblogaeth y carchardai sydd mewn gwirionedd yn gyn-filwyr? Maent yn gyn-filwyr a fu'n gwasanaethu ein gwlad ar y rheng flaen, ac maent wedi mynd i sefyllfa lle maent yn y carchar am gyfnod. Mae'n neges anarferol i ni eu hanwybyddu a ninnau am iddynt fod yn ôl ac wedi'u hailintegreiddio yn y gymdeithas.

Nobody has written anyone off, Huw, but what I am saying is that when people are rehabilitated, then they have the right to come back in and have that vote.

It’s been a long-established practice in our country that those who break the laws of our nation lose the right to have any say in the making of those laws, and we should not abandon that practice. By breaking our laws, prisoners have demonstrated their disregard for our society and its citizens, along with the victims of their crimes, and in every crime there is a victim. They should not have a say in how our country is run. I wholeheartedly reject any move to give prisoners the vote.

I also question the decision to set the cut-off at sentences of four years or less. This practically means that all prisoners serving time in Welsh prisons will be entitled to vote, as Wales does not have any category A prisons. Even Scotland has not gone this far—they set the cut-off date at 12 months. So, I do not support the committee’s recommendations and, in what must be a first for me, I am calling on the Welsh Government to consider the implications and reject those recommendations, because not only does this go against the wishes of the wider public, those pushing for this change accept it is broadly unacceptable to ordinary voters. So, once again, politicians are stating that they know what is best, and disregard public opinion. We are put here to serve our constituents, and we simply can’t simply ignore their wishes, whatever our own personal opinions may be. So, if Welsh Government press ahead with this policy, they will be—

Nid oes neb yn anwybyddu neb, Huw, ond yr hyn rwy'n ei ddweud yw pan fydd pobl yn cael eu hadsefydlu, mae ganddynt hawl i ddod yn ôl i mewn a chael y bleidlais honno.

Mae wedi bod yn arfer hirsefydlog yn ein gwlad fod y rhai sy'n torri cyfreithiau ein gwlad yn colli'r hawl i gael unrhyw lais yn y broses o lunio'r cyfreithiau hynny, ac ni ddylem roi'r gorau i'r arfer hwnnw. Drwy dorri ein cyfreithiau, mae carcharorion wedi dangos eu bod yn diystyru ein cymdeithas a'i dinasyddion, ynghyd â dioddefwyr eu troseddau, ac ym mhob trosedd ceir dioddefwr. Ni ddylent gael rhoi eu barn am y ffordd y caiff ein gwlad ei rhedeg. Gwrthodaf yn llwyr unrhyw gamau i roi'r bleidlais i garcharorion.

Rwyf hefyd yn cwestiynu'r penderfyniad i osod y terfyn ar ddedfrydau o bedair blynedd neu lai. Yn ymarferol, golyga hyn y bydd gan bob carcharor sy'n bwrw dedfryd yng ngharchardai Cymru hawl i bleidleisio, gan nad oes gan Gymru unrhyw garchardai categori A. Nid yw'r Alban hyd yn oed wedi mynd mor bell â hyn—maent wedi gosod y terfyn ar 12 mis. Felly, nid wyf yn cefnogi argymhellion y pwyllgor, ac am y tro cyntaf i mi, mae'n rhaid, rwy'n galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ystyried y goblygiadau a gwrthod yr argymhellion, oherwydd nid yn unig y mae hyn yn mynd yn groes i ddymuniadau'r cyhoedd yn ehangach, mae'r rhai sy'n pwyso am y newid hwn yn derbyn ei fod yn annerbyniol at ei gilydd i bleidleiswyr cyffredin. Felly, unwaith eto, mae gwleidyddion yn datgan eu bod yn gwybod beth sydd orau, ac yn diystyru barn y cyhoedd. Rydym wedi cael ein rhoi yma i wasanaethu ein hetholwyr, ac ni allwn anwybyddu eu dymuniadau, beth bynnag yw ein barn bersonol. Felly, os bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwrw ymlaen â'r polisi hwn, byddant—

Will you take an intervention?

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

Not another one, sorry.

They will be demonstrating how out of touch they really are with public opinion. By giving the vote to those who reject our society’s rules, you are in danger of disillusioning ordinary voters—voters who won’t turn out at future elections because they refuse to vote for an out-of-touch political elite. And for what? A handful of votes from people convicted of a criminal offence. Having worked in the prison service, I can tell you that the turnout, in somewhere like HMP Parc, will be nowhere near the 33 per cent who voted at the last Assembly election.

And for the reasons I have stated, I urge Members to reject these proposals.

Nid un arall, mae'n ddrwg gennyf.

Byddant yn dangos faint o ddiffyg cysylltiad sydd rhyngddynt mewn gwirionedd a barn y cyhoedd. Drwy roi'r bleidlais i'r rhai sy'n gwrthod rheolau ein cymdeithas, rydych mewn perygl o ddadrithio pleidleiswyr cyffredin—pleidleiswyr na fyddant yn pleidleisio mewn etholiadau yn y dyfodol am eu bod yn gwrthod pleidleisio dros elît gwleidyddol pell. Ac i beth? Er mwyn cael llond dwrn o bleidleisiau gan bobl a gafwyd yn euog o drosedd. A minnau wedi gweithio yn y gwasanaeth carchardai, gallaf ddweud wrthych na fydd y nifer a fydd yn pleidleisio yn rhywle fel carchar Parc yn agos at y 33 y cant a bleidleisiodd yn etholiad diwethaf y Cynulliad.

Ac am y rhesymau a nodais, rwy'n annog yr Aelodau i wrthod y cynigion hyn.

This report by the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee, of which I was previously a member, makes 11 recommendations. The main recommendation is that Welsh prisoners who are serving custodial sentences of less than four years should have the right to vote in devolved Welsh elections. My colleague Mark Isherwood and I disagreed with this recommendation. I do so again today.

I object to this proposal in principle, and for practical reasons also. We as a society produce a framework of laws setting out standards of responsibility and commitment that we expect our citizens to maintain. People who have committed crimes against their fellow citizens do not meet those standards. So, if these people are not willing to follow the law, why should they have a role in making the law for everyone else?

The First Minister himself said in this Chamber yesterday, Presiding Officer, and the quote is:

'people who decide to be law makers give up the right to be law breakers.'

I believe the opposite is also true. There has been much talk of prisoners' civil liberty, but imprisonment, by definition, involves the suspension of the right to liberty. Civil liberties in a democracy combine the right to vote with the right to stand for election, freedom for association, assembly and movement. Offenders serving prison sentences are deprived of these civil liberties as a consequence of their actions. I strongly believe in the rehabilitation of offenders. The restoration of the right to vote demonstrates that an individual has paid their debt to society. It should be seen as an incentive to integrate offenders back into civic society. So, in principle, I object this proposal.

But there are also practical arguments against. The fact is, these proposals create a bureaucratic nightmare for staff employed in our already hard-pressed prison services. This report proposes that all prisons, wherever they are, have Welsh prisoners appointed an election co-ordinator within the prison staff. This represents an additional burden on prison staff. Wales does not have any women prisons, so Welsh women—

Mae'r adroddiad hwn gan y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau, yr oeddwn yn arfer bod yn aelod ohono, yn gwneud 11 o argymhellion. Y prif argymhelliad yw y dylai carcharorion o Gymru sy'n cael dedfrydau o lai na phedair blynedd o garchar gael hawl i bleidleisio yn etholiadau datganoledig Cymru. Roedd fy nghyd-Aelod, Mark Isherwood, a minnau'n anghytuno â'r argymhelliad hwn. Rwy'n parhau i anghytuno heddiw.

Rwy'n gwrthwynebu'r cynnig hwn o ran egwyddor, ac am resymau ymarferol hefyd. Rydym fel cymdeithas yn cynhyrchu fframwaith o ddeddfau sy'n nodi safonau cyfrifoldeb ac ymrwymiad y disgwyliwn i'n dinasyddion eu cynnal. Nid yw pobl sydd wedi cyflawni troseddau yn erbyn eu cyd-ddinasyddion yn cyrraedd y safonau hynny. Felly, os nad yw'r bobl hyn yn fodlon cydymffurfio â'r gyfraith, pam y dylent gael rôl yn gwneud y gyfraith i bawb arall?

Dywedodd y Prif Weinidog ei hun yn y Siambr hon ddoe, Lywydd, a'r dyfyniad yw:

'[mae] pobl sy'n penderfynu bod yn wneuthurwyr deddfau yn ildio'r hawl i fod yn dorwyr cyfraith.'

Credaf fod y gwrthwyneb yn wir hefyd. Bu llawer o sôn am hawliau sifil carcharorion, ond mae carcharu, drwy ddiffiniad, yn golygu atal yr hawl i ryddid. Mae hawliau sifil mewn democratiaeth yn cyfuno'r hawl i bleidleisio â'r hawl i sefyll etholiad, rhyddid i gymdeithasu, ymgynnull a symud. Mae troseddwyr sy'n bwrw dedfrydau o garchar yn cael eu hamddifadu o'r hawliau sifil hyn o ganlyniad i'w gweithredoedd. Rwy'n credu'n gryf mewn adsefydlu troseddwyr. Mae adfer yr hawl i bleidleisio yn dangos bod unigolyn wedi talu ei ddyled i'r gymdeithas. Dylid ei weld fel cymhelliad i integreiddio troseddwyr yn ôl i'r gymdeithas ddinesig. Felly, o ran egwyddor, rwy'n gwrthwynebu'r cynnig hwn.

Ond ceir dadleuon ymarferol yn erbyn hyn hefyd. Y gwir amdani yw bod y cynigion hyn yn creu hunllef fiwrocrataidd i staff a gyflogir yn y gwasanaethau carchardai sydd eisoes dan bwysau. Mae'r adroddiad hwn yn cynnig y dylai pob carchar, lle bynnag y bônt, ddynodi cydgysylltydd etholiadau ar gyfer carcharorion o Gymru o blith staff y carchar. Mae hyn yn faich ychwanegol ar staff carchardai. Nid oes gan Gymru garchardai i fenywod, felly mae menywod Cymru—

15:55

Will you take an intervention?

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

Given that the Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, was found guilty of breaking the law this week, do you think he should now not have the right to vote?

O gofio bod Boris Johnson, y Prif Weinidog, wedi'i gael yn euog o dorri'r gyfraith yr wythnos hon, a ydych yn credu na ddylai gael yr hawl i bleidleisio yn awr?

Listen—[Interruption.] Look, the thing is—

Gwrandewch—[Torri ar draws.] Edrychwch, y peth yw—

Should we lock him up? Lock him up, maybe?

A ddylem ei roi dan glo? Ei roi dan glo, efallai?

Look, he did not harm the country. You're the one harming the country.

Edrychwch, ni wnaeth niwed i'r wlad. Chi yw'r un sy'n niweidio'r wlad.

He's already harmed the country.

Mae wedi niweidio'r wlad eisoes.

You are not listening to—. Presiding Officer, I had opinions in my own office in Newport: in a month, while I was a member of this committee, more than a 100 constituents—I asked them, and not a single one said, 'Yes, I would like to have the right to vote for the prisoner.' That is in South Wales East. Please do it in your constituencies and come back and report. [Interruption.] No, you've had enough, thanks.

Most people receive their news from the television in prison. This automatically puts Welsh prisoners in England at a disadvantage because there are no women prisons here in Wales—this was mentioned earlier. One of the strengths of our democracy is that electors have a chance to meet the candidate standing for election. It is totally impractical for candidates to travel to prison to meet potential voters in this case. Even this report recognises that the idea of holding practical hustings in prison is a non-starter because it poses significant security risk.

Presiding Officer, there is no support from the public or prisoners to have the right to vote. In 2017 a YouGov poll found that 60 per cent of people who responded did not support prisoner voting—that is YouGov.

Nid ydych yn gwrando ar—. Lywydd, cefais safbwyntiau yn fy swyddfa fy hun yng Nghasnewydd: mewn mis, pan oeddwn yn aelod o'r pwyllgor hwn, roedd mwy na 100 o etholwyr—gofynnais iddynt, ac ni ddywedodd yr un ohonynt, 'Hoffwn weld hawl i garcharorion bleidleisio.' Mae hynny yn Nwyrain De Cymru. Gwnewch hynny yn eich etholaethau a dewch yn ôl i adrodd. [Torri ar draws.] Na, rydych chi wedi cael digon, diolch.

Mae'r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn cael eu newyddion oddi ar y teledu yn y carchar. Mae hyn yn rhoi carcharorion o Gymru yn Lloegr dan anfantais yn awtomatig am nad oes unrhyw garchardai i fenywod yma yng Nghymru—crybwyllwyd hyn yn gynharach. Un o gryfderau ein democratiaeth yw bod etholwyr yn cael cyfle i gyfarfod â'r ymgeisydd sy'n sefyll mewn etholiad. Mae'n gwbl anymarferol i ymgeiswyr deithio i'r carchar i gyfarfod â darpar bleidleiswyr yn yr achos hwn. Mae hyd yn oed yr adroddiad yn cydnabod bod y syniad o gynnal hustyngau ymarferol yn y carchar yn amhosibl oherwydd mae'n peri risg sylweddol o ran diogelwch.

Lywydd, nid oes cefnogaeth o blith y cyhoedd na charcharorion i gael yr hawl i bleidleisio. Yn 2017 canfu arolwg YouGov nad oedd 60 y cant o'r bobl a ymatebodd yn cefnogi rhoi'r bleidlais i garcharorion—YouGov oedd hwnnw.

Will you take an intervention?

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

Public opinion polls show time and time again that the general public is in favour of bringing back hanging. Do you therefore think we should bring back hanging in order to comply with public opinion?

Mae arolygon barn cyhoeddus yn dangos dro ar ôl tro fod y cyhoedd yn gyffredinol o blaid adfer crogi. A ydych chi'n credu felly y dylem adfer crogi er mwyn cydymffurfio â'r farn gyhoeddus?

But this is totally irrelevant to the prisoner—

Ond mae hyn yn gwbl amherthnasol i fater carcharorion—

It's not irrelevant, you're talking about public opinion.

Nid yw'n amherthnasol, rydych chi'n siarad am y farn gyhoeddus.

Listen, I thought you're very intelligent lady, we are talking about—

Gwrandewch, roeddwn i'n meddwl eich bod yn wraig ddeallus iawn, rydym yn sôn am—

Are you calling me stupid?

A ydych chi'n fy ngalw i'n dwp?

We are talking about voting not hanging.

Rydym yn siarad am bleidleisio, nid am grogi.

Are you calling me stupid?

A ydych chi'n fy ngalw i'n dwp?

We are not—. I never said—. I thought you're very intelligent, but we are talking—

Nid ydym—. Ni ddywedais—. Roeddwn i'n meddwl eich bod chi'n ddeallus iawn, ond rydym yn siarad—