Y Cyfarfod Llawn - Y Bumed Senedd

Plenary - Fifth Senedd

09/01/2018

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair. 

The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

Datganiad gan y Llywydd
Statement by the Llywydd

Cyn cychwyn, a gaf i ddymuno blwyddyn newydd dda i bawb a chroesawu Aelod newydd i'n plith, Mandy Jones, i gynrychioli rhanbarth y gogledd yn dilyn ymddiswyddiad Nathan Gill? A gaf i ddymuno'n dda i Mandy Jones wrth iddi ymgymryd â'i gwaith yma yn y Cynulliad?

Before we begin, may I wish everybody a happy new year and welcome a new Member, Mandy Jones, to represent the North Wales region following Nathan Gill's resignation? May I wish Mandy Jones well as she undertakes her role here in the Assembly?

1. Cwestiynau i'r Prif Weinidog
1. Questions to the First Minister

Felly, ar hynny, cwestiynau i'r Prif Weinidog, a'r cwestiwn cyntaf, Joyce Watson. 

And, so, with that, questions to the First Minister. Question 1, Joyce Watson.

Ailgylchu Plastig
Plastic Recycling

1. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am ymdrechion i ailgylchu plastig yng Nghymru? OAQ51514

1. Will the First Minister make a statement on efforts to recycle plastic in Wales? OAQ51514

Yes. We've set high targets for recycling in Wales, including plastic. All local authorities collect plastic for recycling, and businesses will be further encouraged to do so under the Environment (Wales) Act 2016 provisions, and in addition we are working with the industry to increase treatment capacity for plastics that are collected.

Gwnaf. Rydym ni wedi ein gosod targedau uchel ar gyfer ailgylchu yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys plastig. Mae pob awdurdod lleol yn casglu plastig ar gyfer ei ailgylchu, a bydd busnesau yn cael eu hannog ymhellach i wneud hynny o dan ddarpariaethau Deddf yr Amgylchedd (Cymru) 2016, ac rydym ni hefyd yn gweithio gyda'r diwydiant i gynyddu capasiti triniaeth ar gyfer plastigau sy'n cael eu casglu.

You will be aware, First Minister, that, last week, China made an announcement that they'll no longer be importing plastic waste from the UK, and last year alone Wales exported over 4,000 tonnes. We know also that the amount of plastic produced and disposed of is growing every single year, and the majority of that is single-use plastic for wrapping up food. So, could we take this as an opportunity maybe, here in Wales, to do two things: one, to reduce the amount of single-use plastic in the very first place; and secondly, where that's not possible, that we can actually recycle our own plastic—and there are some very good examples of people doing that here in Wales—and grow those industries?

Byddwch yn ymwybodol, Prif Weinidog, bod Tsieina, yr wythnos diwethaf, wedi gwneud cyhoeddiad na fyddant yn mewnforio gwastraff plastig o'r DU mwyach, ac allforiodd Cymru dros 4,000 o dunelli dim ond y llynedd. Gwyddom hefyd fod cyfanswm y plastig sy'n cael ei gynhyrchu a'i waredu yn tyfu bob un blwyddyn, ac mae'r rhan fwyaf o hwnnw'n blastig untro ar gyfer lapio bwyd. Felly, a allem ni fanteisio ar hwn fel cyfle efallai, yma yng Nghymru, i wneud dau beth: un, i leihau cyfanswm y bagiau plastig untro yn y lle cyntaf; ac yn ail, pan nad yw hynny'n bosibl, y gallwn ni ailgylchu plastig ein hunain—a cheir rhai enghreifftiau da iawn o bobl yn gwneud hynny yma yng Nghymru—a thyfu'r diwydiannau hynny?

Yes. There are two things to address here. Firstly, we've commissioned a study to assess the feasibility of an extended producer responsibility scheme for food and drink packaging, including disposable plastic. That will report in February. We're also considering a tax or levy on disposable plastic, but there are great opportunities here for Welsh businesses to look at how they can get involved in the plastics recycling industry. We are working, for example, with Jayplas to help it identify suitable sites to base plants in Wales, and Jayplas is the UK market leader in post-consumer recycling, including rigid plastics recycling. 

Gallwn. Mae dau beth i roi sylw iddyn nhw yma. Yn gyntaf, rydym ni wedi comisiynu astudiaeth i asesu ymarferoldeb cynllun cyfrifoldeb estynedig ar gynhyrchwyr dros ddeunydd pecynnu bwyd a diod, gan gynnwys plastig tafladwy. Byddwn yn cael adroddiad yr astudiaeth honno ym mis Chwefror. Rydym ni hefyd yn ystyried treth neu ardoll ar blastig tafladwy, ond ceir cyfleoedd gwych yma i fusnesau Cymru ystyried sut y gallant gymryd rhan yn y diwydiant ailgylchu plastigau. Rydym ni'n gweithio, er enghraifft, gyda Jayplas i'w helpu i nodi safleoedd addas i leoli gweithfeydd yng Nghymru, a Jayplas yw arweinydd marchnad y DU ym maes ailgylchu ôl-ddefnyddio, gan gynnwys ailgylchu plastigau anhyblyg.

I think there is universal agreement that China's decision will pose a big challenge to us with regard to recycling here in Wales, with regard to plastics. By commissioning a recycling technologies plant, which would turn end-of-life plastics into light oil, wax or low sulphur heavy fuel oil, we could create an ideal resource here for a wide range of industry applications, and this could, of course, be an opportunity for Wales. Would you agree that it's now time that we end the present system of burning plastics and sending our plastics to landfill, and to be the first country to treat its own plastic waste in a totally environmentally friendly way?

Rwy'n credu bod cytundeb cyffredinol y bydd penderfyniad Tsieina yn her fawr i ni o ran ailgylchu yma yng Nghymru, o ran plastigau. Trwy gomisiynu gwaith technolegau ailgylchu, a fyddai'n troi plastigau diwedd oes yn olew ysgafn, yn gwyr neu'n olew tanwydd trwm sylffwr isel, gallem greu adnodd delfrydol yma ar gyfer amrywiaeth eang o gymwysiadau diwydiant, a gallai hwn, wrth gwrs, fod yn gyfle i Gymru. A fyddech chi'n cytuno ei bod hi'n bryd nawr i ni roi terfyn ar y system bresennol o losgi plastigau ac anfon ein plastigau i safleoedd tirlenwi, ac i fod y wlad gyntaf i drin ei gwastraff plastig ei hun mewn ffordd gwbl ecogyfeillgar?

Yes, I do, and I think it's hugely important to work, as I mentioned earlier, with companies who have proven expertise in this area, to make sure that more plastic is recycled within Wales and more jobs created as a result, and, of course, to look to see how we can assist those new entrants to the market.

Byddwn, mi fyddwn, ac mae'n hynod bwysig i weithio, fel y soniais yn gynharach, gyda chwmnïau sydd ag arbenigedd profedig yn y maes hwn, i wneud yn siŵr bod mwy o blastig yn cael ei ailgylchu yng Nghymru a mwy o swyddi yn cael eu creu o ganlyniad, ac, wrth gwrs, i edrych i weld sut y gallwn ni gynorthwyo'r newydd-ddyfodiaid hynny i'r farchnad.

Wel, jest fel enghraifft o faint y broblem, roedd grŵp sbwriel Llangatwg ym Mhowys wedi canfod ym mis Hydref y llynedd, wrth gasglu sbwriel jest yn ardal pentref Llangatwg, 266 o gwpanau coffi wedi'u taflu bant jest fel yna. Nid oes angen lefi latte yng Nghymru, achos mae gyda chi, fel rydych yn ei ddweud, gynllun posib ar gyfer lefi ar blastig un-defnydd fel un o'r pedair treth newydd rydych chi'n eu hystyried. Pryd, felly, cawn ni glywed pa dreth rydych chi wedi penderfynu arni, ac a gaf i eich annog chi, am y tro olaf efallai, i fanteisio ar ymrwymiad Plaid Cymru, a rhai o'ch meinciau cefn chi, rwy'n meddwl, i wneud yn siŵr mai'r dreth gyntaf yw lefi ar blastig un-defnydd?

Just as an example, the Llangattock litter group in Powys, in October last year, just in collecting litter in the village, found 266 coffee cups that had been thrown away. Now, you don’t need a latte levy in Wales, because, as you said, there is a proposal for a levy on single-use plastics as one of the four possible new taxes that you’re considering. When will we hear which tax you have decided upon, and may I encourage you, perhaps for the last time, to take advantage of the Plaid Cymru commitment, and that of some of your own backbenchers too, to ensure that the first tax is a levy on single-use plastics?

Wel, fel y dywedais i, y peth cyntaf yw sicrhau bod yr adroddiad ynglŷn â chyfrifoldeb y cynhyrchwyr ynglŷn â phecynnau bwyd a diod yn cael ei gyhoeddi. Bydd hwnnw'n cael ei gyhoeddi ym mis Chwefror. Unwaith bydd hwnnw wedi cael ei gyhoeddi, bydd yn ein helpu ni i wneud penderfyniad ynglŷn â'r ffordd ymlaen gydag unrhyw dreth. 

Well, as I said, the first thing is to ensure that the report on manufacturers’ responsibility with regard to food and drink packaging is published. The report will be published in February. Once it is published, that will assist us in making a decision on the way forward as regards any tax.

Cefnogi Mentrau
Supporting Enterprise

2. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am bolisïau Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer cefnogi mentrau yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru? OAQ51496

2. Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's policies for supporting enterprise in south-east Wales? OAQ51496

Our plans for economic development are set out in 'Prosperity for All' and the economic action plan. We continue to provide a wide range of support to businesses in Wales through Business Wales and the development bank, and we also provide infrastructure investment and actions that improve business conditions.

Nodir ein cynlluniau ar gyfer datblygu economaidd yn 'Ffyniant i Bawb' a'r cynllun gweithredu economaidd. Rydym ni'n parhau i ddarparu amrywiaeth eang o gymorth i fusnesau yng Nghymru drwy Busnes Cymru a'r banc datblygu, ac rydym ni hefyd yn darparu buddsoddiad mewn seilwaith a chamau gweithredu sy'n gwella amodau busnes.

13:35

Thank you, First Minister. Happy new year. Yesterday was an historic day for Wales, with the nationalisation of the Severn bridges—something I'm sure you'll welcome—and a reduction in the tolls—a great gateway Wales project. However, this comes only a few weeks after the Welsh Government's call in, and refusal, of a planning application in Monmouth, in my constituency, for a hotel and spa development—another fantastic gateway Wales project. Now, the concern in the town about this decision has not diminished over the new year. The hotel was rejected on planning grounds due to technical advice note 15 considerations. Can your officials look again at either this decision, or, failing that, look again at the TAN 15 guidelines? Because it does seem to be that this has been overzealously applied, and I'm concerned that it is starting to stifle economic opportunities across Wales which otherwise would benefit the Welsh economy.

Diolch, Prif Weinidog. Blwyddyn newydd dda. Roedd ddoe yn ddiwrnod hanesyddol i Gymru, wrth i bontydd Hafren gael eu gwladoli—rhywbeth yr wyf i'n siŵr y byddwch chi yn ei groesawu—a gostyngiad i'r tollau—prosiect gwych porth Cymru. Fodd bynnag, daw hyn dim ond ychydig wythnosau ar ôl i Lywodraeth Cymru alw i mewn, a gwrthod, cais cynllunio yn Nhrefynwy, yn fy etholaeth i, ar gyfer datblygiad gwesty a spa—prosiect porth Cymru ardderchog arall. Nawr, nid yw'r pryder yn y dref am y penderfyniad hwn wedi lleihau dros y flwyddyn newydd. Gwrthodwyd y gwesty ar sail cynllunio oherwydd ystyriaethau nodyn cyngor technegol 15. A all eich swyddogion edrych eto ar y penderfyniad hwn, neu, os nad yw hynny'n bosibl, edrych eto ar ganllawiau TAN 15? Oherwydd mae'n ymddangos bod hwn wedi cael ei gymhwyso'n rhy eiddgar, ac rwy'n bryderus ei fod yn dechrau llesteirio cyfleoedd economaidd ledled Cymru a fyddai o fudd i economi Cymru fel arall.

Well, TAN 15, the Minister tells me, is being looked at. I can't comment, of course, on an individual planning application. He mentions the Severn tolls, but let's not get too overexcited about this. Of course, I very much welcome the return of the Severn bridges to public ownership. But what the UK Government have actually done is to remove the VAT, which they cannot legally charge anyway, on the tolls because they're coming back into public ownership. So, yes, as far as the public are concerned, of course it's a reduction in the tolls, but let's not pretend this is some great concession by the UK Government, because they can't actually charge the 20 per cent in the first place. What would be far better is that they got rid of the tolls altogether.

Wel, mae TAN 15, mae'r Gweinidog yn fy hysbysu, yn cael ei ystyried. Ni allaf wneud sylw, wrth gwrs, ar gais cynllunio unigol. Mae'n crybwyll tollau Hafren, ond gadewch i ni beidio â gorgynhyrfu'n ormodol am hyn. Wrth gwrs, rwy'n croesawu'n fawr y ffaith fod pontydd Hafren yn dychwelyd i berchnogaeth gyhoeddus. Ond yr hyn y mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi ei wneud mewn gwirionedd yw dileu'r TAW, na allant ei chodi'n gyfreithlon beth bynnag, ar y tollau gan eu bod nhw'n dod yn ôl i berchnogaeth gyhoeddus. Felly, ydy, cyn belled ag y mae'r cyhoedd yn y cwestiwn, mae'n ostyngiad i'r tollau wrth gwrs, ond gadewch i ni beidio ag esgus bod hwn yn rhyw gonsesiwn mawr gan Lywodraeth y DU, gan na allant godi'r 20 y cant yn y lle cyntaf mewn gwirionedd. Yr hyn a fyddai'n llawer gwell yw pe byddent yn cael gwared ar y tollau yn gyfan gwbl.

First Minister, can I welcome very much the Welsh Government's financial support for E-Cycle in my constituency, which is the former Remploy plant that the Welsh Government helped survive and transform into e-cycling, and in fact the further package of funding that enables it to continue to expand and to develop, creating not only business, but obviously jobs within the Valleys areas? I wonder, First Minister, whether you could actually comment on the company's potential for growth, the actual details of the support that is actually being given to that company, and particularly the fact that it is an ethical company, employing disabled workers, many of whom are from my constituency—it's based in my constituency. It's a real example of what the Welsh Government is doing to actually support this type of business, with real potential for expansion in the Valleys.

Prif Weinidog, a gaf i groesawu'n fawr iawn cymorth ariannol Llywodraeth Cymru i E-Cycle yn fy etholaeth i, sef hen ffatri Remploy a helpwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i oroesi a gweddnewid i e-feicio, ac yn wir y pecyn ychwanegol o gyllid sy'n ei alluogi i barhau i ehangu ac i ddatblygu, gan greu busnes yn ogystal â swyddi, yn amlwg, yn ardaloedd y Cymoedd? Tybed, Prif Weinidog, a allech chi wneud sylw ar botensial y cwmni i dyfu, union fanylion y cymorth sy'n cael ei roi i'r cwmni hwnnw, ac yn enwedig y ffaith ei fod yn gwmni moesegol, sy'n cyflogi gweithwyr anabl, y mae llawer ohonynt o fy etholaeth i— mae wedi ei leoli yn fy etholaeth i. Mae'n enghraifft wirioneddol o'r hyn y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud mewn gwirionedd i gefnogi'r math hwn o fusnes, sydd â photensial gwirioneddol i ehangu yn y Cymoedd.

Well, it's true to say, of course, that E-Cycle have been awarded support, and I'm pleased we are providing support to recycle. We will continue to assist the company in identifying new opportunities for business growth. Both the recently published economic action plan and the Valleys taskforce delivery plan recognise the impact of digital technology, and set out our proposals to futureproof the Welsh economy.

Wel, mae'n wir i ddweud, wrth gwrs, y dyfarnwyd cymorth i E-Cycle, ac rwy'n falch ein bod ni'n darparu cymorth i ailgylchu. Byddwn yn parhau i gynorthwyo'r cwmni i nodi cyfleoedd newydd ar gyfer twf busnes. Mae'r cynllun gweithredu economaidd a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar a chynllun cyflawni tasglu'r Cymoedd yn cydnabod effaith technoleg ddigidol, ac yn cyflwyno ein cynigion i ddiogelu economi Cymru ar gyfer y dyfodol.

Steffan Lewis. [Cymeradwyaeth.]

Steffan Lewis. [Applause.]

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd, a chyd-Aelodau.

Thank you very much, Llywydd, and fellow Members.

I very much welcome yesterday's announcement by the Welsh Government to create a £50 million Brexit preparedness fund, something that will be essential for enterprise support in the south-east and across the country. And I very much hope that the Welsh Government has looked at the Irish models for support, as we face separation from the European Union and the great economic uncertainty that is bound to entail as Theresa May continues her Brexit shambles. What assurances can the First Minister give enterprises across the country, and particularly in the south-east, that this will be an accessible, straightforward fund that they will find simple to engage with, and that it will be targeted and that it can deliver on its very good intentions indeed?

Rwy'n croesawu'n fawr y cyhoeddiad ddoe gan Lywodraeth Cymru i greu cronfa parodrwydd ar gyfer Brexit o £50 miliwn, rhywbeth a fydd yn hanfodol ar gyfer cefnogi mentrau yn y de-ddwyrain a ledled y wlad. Ac rwy'n mawr obeithio bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi edrych ar fodelau Iwerddon ar gyfer cymorth, wrth i ni wynebu gwahaniad oddi wrth yr Undeb Ewropeaidd a'r ansicrwydd economaidd mawr sy'n sicr o ddeillio o hynny wrth i Theresa May barhau ei thraed moch Brexit. Pa sicrwydd all y Prif Weinidog eu roi i fentrau ledled y wlad, ac yn y de-ddwyrain yn arbennig, y bydd hon yn gronfa hygyrch, syml a fydd yn hawdd iddynt ymgysylltu â hi, ac y bydd yn cael ei thargedu ac y gall gyflawni ei bwriadau gwirioneddol dda?

Can I say what a pleasure it is to see the Member here? And he will hear from the reception that he has received the goodwill of this Chamber, and the friendship that he enjoys amongst many in this Chamber, across parties.

In relation to his question, the announcement yesterday was an announcement that indicates to businesses, to universities and others that we are putting money aside in order to help them to deal with the consequences of Brexit. What we don't know, of course, is what Brexit will look like, and so much of the detail has yet to be looked at. But we will work with all those affected to put in place an effective and simple scheme, to ensure that the scheme provides the support that it's intended to provide.

A gaf i ddweud pa mor braf yw gweld yr Aelod yma? A bydd yn clywed o'r croeso y mae wedi ei dderbyn ewyllys da y Siambr hon, a'r cyfeillgarwch y mae'n ei fwynhau ymhlith llawer yn y Siambr hon, ar draws y pleidiau.

O ran ei gwestiwn, roedd y cyhoeddiad ddoe yn gyhoeddiad sy'n dangos i fusnesau, prifysgolion ac eraill ein bod ni'n rhoi arian o'r neilltu i'w helpu i ymdrin â chanlyniadau Brexit. Yr hyn nad ydym yn ei wybod, wrth gwrs, yw sut y bydd Brexit yn edrych, ac mae cymaint o'r manylion heb gael eu hystyried hyd yn hyn. Ond byddwn yn gweithio gyda phawb sy'n cael eu heffeithio ac yn rhoi cynllun syml ac effeithiol ar waith, i sicrhau bod y cynllun yn darparu'r cymorth y bwriedir iddo ei ddarparu.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Arweinwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

Cwestiynau nawr gan arweinwyr y pleidiau. Arweinydd yr wrthblaid, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the opposition, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Could I also extend a welcome to the new Member here today, and endorse the First Minister's comments about how welcome it is to see Steffan back in the Chamber here, and wish him well in the weeks and months ahead? And I'd also offer my congratulations to David Melding, who was recognised in the new year's honours list—a very worthy contribution to Welsh democracy that has been recognised by the new year's honours list that was put out this year.

First Minister, we've all seen the pressures that have hit the Welsh NHS over the last couple of weeks, especially those specific winter pressures. Were they predictable and were they preventable? 

Diolch, Llywydd. A gaf innau hefyd groesawu'r Aelod newydd yma heddiw, ac ategu sylwadau'r Prif Weinidog ynghylch pa mor braf yw gweld Steffan yn ôl yn y Siambr hon, a dymuno'n dda iddo yn yr wythnosau a'r misoedd i ddod? Ac rwyf hefyd yn cynnig fy llongyfarchiadau i David Melding, a gydnabuwyd yn rhestr anrhydeddau'r flwyddyn newydd—cyfraniad teilwng iawn i ddemocratiaeth Cymru sydd wedi cael ei gydnabod gan y rhestr anrhydeddau'r flwyddyn newydd a gyhoeddwyd eleni.

Prif Weinidog, rydym ni i gyd wedi gweld y pwysau sydd wedi taro GIG Cymru dros y pythefnos diwethaf, a'r pwysau gaeaf penodol hwnnw yn arbennig. A oedd modd eu rhagweld ac a oedd modd eu hatal?

13:40

Well, first of all, I pay tribute to all our staff in all settings—the GPs, the paramedics, hospitals and social care—for their remarkable efforts in responding to these pressures. The winter is always a very challenging period. There will always be times when demand places our services under great pressure, needing local escalation. There was rigorous preparation in place, but the NHS in Wales has been under considerable pressure consistent with that being reported in other parts of the UK. There was a professional response, more resources were made available and the situation is now stabilising. 

Wel, yn gyntaf oll, hoffwn dalu teyrnged i'n holl staff ym mhob lleoliad—y meddygon teulu, y parafeddygon, yr ysbytai a gofal cymdeithasol—am eu hymdrechion anhygoel wrth ymateb i'r pwysau hwn. Mae'r gaeaf yn gyfnod anodd iawn bob amser. Bydd adegau bob amser pan fo'r galw yn rhoi ein gwasanaethau o dan bwysau mawr, sy'n golygu bod angen dwysau lleol. Roedd paratoadau trylwyr wedi eu gwneud, ond mae'r NHS yng Nghymru wedi bod o dan gryn bwysau yn gyson â'r hyn sy'n cael ei adrodd mewn rhannau eraill o'r DU. Cafwyd ymateb proffesiynol, rhoddwyd mwy o adnoddau ar gael ac mae'r sefyllfa yn sefydlogi erbyn hyn.

Thank you, First Minister, for that answer. I do recognise that there are pressures across the whole of the United Kingdom as we've all seen in the news. My first question was were they predictable and were they preventable, some of the pressures unique to Wales, such as no GP out-of-hours service, as I'm led to believe, here in Cardiff over the festive period. There were chronic waiting times over and above what we've seen in other parts of the NHS in the United Kingdom. In Ysbyty Glan Clwyd, for example, less than 50 per cent of patients who presented at A&E were seen within the Government's own four-hour wait time, and we already knew that wait times were excessive here in Wales as opposed to other parts of the United Kingdom. You and I can have a political ding-dong about this and it won't really advance the argument that much further. What people want to hear is what solutions the Government will be putting into place to stop some of these unique events that have been happening in Wales—that are specific to Wales—such as no out-of-hours provision whatsoever here in the capital city of Cardiff and, above all, those really long waits in A&Es, across A&E departments in Wales, as I highlighted to you? What are you doing? 

Diolch, Prif Weinidog, am yr ateb yna. Rwyf yn cydnabod bod pwysau ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig gyfan fel yr ydym ni i gyd wedi ei weld ar y newyddion. Fy nghwestiwn cyntaf oedd a oedd modd eu rhagweld ac a oedd modd eu hatal, rhai o'r pwysau hynny a oedd yn unigryw i Gymru, fel dim gwasanaeth meddyg teulu y tu allan i oriau, fel yr wyf yn cael fy arwain i gredu, yma yng Nghaerdydd dros gyfnod yr ŵyl. Roedd amseroedd aros cronig yn fwy na'r hyn a welsom mewn rhannau eraill o'r GIG yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Yn Ysbyty Glan Clwyd, er enghraifft, gwelwyd llai na 50 y cant o gleifion a aeth i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys o fewn amser aros y Llywodraeth ei hun o bedair awr, ac roeddem ni eisoes yn gwybod bod amseroedd aros yn ormodol yma yng Nghymru o'u cymharu â rhannau eraill o'r Deyrnas Unedig. Gallwch chi a minnau gael dadl wleidyddol am hyn ac ni fydd wir yn datblygu fawr mwy ar y ddadl. Yr hyn y mae pobl eisiau ei glywed yw pa atebion y bydd y Llywodraeth yn eu rhoi ar waith i atal rhai o'r digwyddiadau unigryw hyn sydd wedi bod yn digwydd yng Nghymru—sydd yn benodol i Gymru—fel dim darpariaeth y tu allan i oriau o gwbl yma ym mhrifddinas Caerdydd ac, yn anad dim, y cyfnodau aros gwirioneddol hir hynny mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys, adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yng Nghymru, fel yr amlygais i chi? Beth ydych chi'n ei wneud?

Well, first of all, in terms of A&E, it's not the case that the target is four hours before somebody is seen in A&E. The target is four hours until somebody is discharged or admitted from A&E, just to make that clear. He asks the question fairly: was this predictable? The answer to my mind is 'no' and I'll explain why. For example, when it came red ambulance calls, the figure for new year's eve was 54 per cent higher than new year's eve last year. Similar figures, though lower, were reported for new year's day and also for the Christmas period. Now, is that predictable? I'd argue it isn't. Nevertheless, a great deal of planning went into ensuring that the NHS was able to manage. There were great pressures. I pay tribute to staff and, of course, as I say, the situation is now stabilising. But we will be looking at why there was such a spike on new year's eve, just to give one example, compared to last year. Despite the great pressure that was placed on the health service, staff were still able to work hard to reach the targets that we had set, particularly the paramedic staff. Why it is that there was a spike like that compared with last year, it's something we'll have to look at. 

Wel, yn gyntaf oll, o ran adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys, ac nid yw'n wir mai pedair awr yw'r targed cyn i rywun gael ei weld mewn adran damweiniau ac achosion brys. Pedair awr tan i rywun gael ei ryddhau neu ei dderbyn o adran damweiniau ac achosion brys, dim ond i wneud hynny'n eglur. Mae'n gofyn y cwestiwn yn deg: A oedd modd rhagweld hyn? Yr ateb yn fy nhyb i yw 'nac oedd' a byddaf yn esbonio pam. Er enghraifft, o ran galwadau ambiwlans coch, roedd y ffigur ar gyfer nos galan 54 y cant yn uwch na nos galan y llynedd. Adroddwyd ffigurau tebyg, ond llai, ar gyfer dydd calan ac ar gyfer cyfnod y Nadolig hefyd. Nawr, a oes modd rhagweld hynny? Byddwn i'n dadlau nad oes. Serch hynny, gwnaed llawer iawn o gynllunio i sicrhau bod y GIG yn gallu ymdopi. Roedd pwysau mawr. Talaf deyrnged i'r staff ac, wrth gwrs, fel y dywedaf, mae'r sefyllfa yn sefydlogi erbyn hyn. Ond byddwn yn ystyried pam y bu cynnydd mor sydyn nos galan, dim ond i roi un enghraifft, o'i gymharu â'r llynedd. Er gwaethaf y pwysau mawr a roddwyd ar y gwasanaeth iechyd, roedd y staff yn dal i allu gweithio'n galed i gyrraedd y targedau a osodwyd gennym, yn enwedig y staff parafeddygol. Pam y bu cynnydd sydyn o'r fath o'i gymharu â'r llynedd, mae'n rhywbeth y bydd rhaid i ni edrych arno.

Thank you, First Minister. I, too, pay tribute to all the staff who were out over the festive period while many of us were enjoying the festive period, and, without that staff, our NHS would not work in whatever section of the service they work in.

But the point I made in my second contribution this afternoon, which is that if there is no out-of-hours provision whatsoever, then it's obvious that the ambulance service, for example, is going to see a spike in demand for its services. What I ask of you in my third question to you is: will we be in the same position this time next year, or what measures will you be taking specifically to address these pressures, which do happen year in, year out? I do take the point that you've pointed to a specific spike in the ambulance calls that were put in on new year's eve, but we are seeing little or no availability in some areas for out-of-hours provision, we are seeing continuing demand for A&E provision and obviously we are seeing a lack of bed space within our hospitals. Thirty per cent of beds have been lost since 1997 here in Wales. So, there does need to be a review of how the Government and the health boards respond to this crisis, and what we need to hear is when that review will be undertaken and whether we can really expect that this situation won't be replicated next year. 

Diolch, Prif Weinidog. Rwyf innau hefyd yn talu teyrnged i'r holl staff a oedd allan dros gyfnod yr ŵyl tra bod llawer ohonom ni'n mwynhau'r ŵyl, ac, heb y staff hynny, ni fyddai ein GIG yn gweithio ym mha bynnag ran o'r gwasanaeth y maen nhw'n gweithio ynddi.

Ond y pwynt a wneuthum yn fy ail gyfraniad y prynhawn yma, yw os nad oes unrhyw ddarpariaeth y tu allan i oriau o gwbl, yna mae'n amlwg bod y gwasanaeth ambiwlans, er enghraifft, yn mynd i weld cynnydd sydyn i'r galw am ei wasanaethau. Yr hyn yr wyf yn ei ofyn amdano yn fy nhrydydd cwestiwn i chi yw: a fyddwn ni yn yr un sefyllfa yr adeg hon y flwyddyn nesaf, neu pa gamau y byddwch chi'n eu cymryd yn benodol i fynd i'r afael â'r pwysau hyn sy'n digwydd flwyddyn ar ôl y blwyddyn? Rwy'n derbyn y pwynt eich bod chi wedi cyfeirio at gynnydd sydyn penodol i'r galwadau ambiwlans a wnaed nos galan, ond rydym ni'n gweld mai ychydig iawn neu ddim o gwbl sydd ar gael o ran darpariaeth y tu allan i oriau mewn rhai ardaloedd, rydym ni'n gweld galw parhaus am ddarpariaeth damweiniau ac achosion brys ac yn amlwg rydym ni'n gweld diffyg gwelyau yn ein hysbytai. Collwyd tri deg y cant o welyau ers 1997 yma yng Nghymru. Felly, mae angen cynnal adolygiad o sut y mae'r Llywodraeth a'r byrddau iechyd yn ymateb i'r argyfwng hwn, a'r hyn y mae angen i ni ei glywed yw pryd y bydd yr adolygiad hwnnw'n cael ei gynnal ac a allwn ni ddisgwyl mewn gwirionedd na fydd y sefyllfa hon yn cael ei hailadrodd y flwyddyn nesaf.

Well, of course, the review has been undertaken, in the sense that the parliamentary review is due, I understand, to publish its findings very soon, and that will look cross-party at ways in which the health service can be strengthened. In terms of GP cover, it is right to say that, in one part of Wales, there were problems on two dates, I understand—not in other parts of Wales, but there was severe pressure particularly there. He asks the question: do we need to look at the reason why there were particular spikes this year, compared to previous years? The answer is, 'Yes, that's something we do want to look at', because that will form part of the LHBs' preparedness for next winter. So, in terms of whether it is preventable, well, there's always pressure on the NHS this time of year, and there's always planning in order to look to deal with that pressure. Predictable? No, I don't think so, given the figures that we've seen on more than one date over the holiday period, when there was a significant increase in demand for ambulance calls, particularly compared to the previous year.

Wel, wrth gwrs, mae'r adolygiad wedi cael ei gynnal, yn yr ystyr y disgwylir i'r adolygiad seneddol, rwy'n deall, gyhoeddi ei ganfyddiadau yn fuan iawn, a bydd hwnnw'n ystyried yn drawsbleidiol ar y ffyrdd y gellir cryfhau'r gwasanaeth iechyd. O ran meddygon teulu, mae'n iawn i ddweud, mewn un rhan o Gymru, y bu problemau ar ddau ddyddiad, rwy'n deall—nid mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru, ond roedd pwysau difrifol yn y fan honno'n benodol. Mae'n gofyn y cwestiwn: a oes angen i ni ystyried y rheswm pam y bu achosion penodol o gynnydd sydyn eleni, o'i gymharu â blynyddoedd blaenorol? Yr ateb yw, 'Ydy, mae hynny'n rhywbeth yr ydym ni eisiau edrych arno', gan y bydd hynny'n rhan o barodrwydd y BILlau ar gyfer y gaeaf nesaf. Felly, o ran a oes modd ei atal, wel, mae pwysau ar y GIG ar yr adeg hon o'r flwyddyn bob amser, ac mae cynllunio bob amser i geisio ymdrin â phwysau o'r fath. Rhagweladwy? Na, dwi ddim yn credu, o ystyried y ffigurau yr ydym ni wedi eu gweld ar fwy nag un dyddiad dros gyfnod y gwyliau, pan fu cynnydd sylweddol i alw am alwadau ambiwlans, yn enwedig o'i gymharu â'r flwyddyn flaenorol.

13:45

Arweinydd Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood. 

Plaid Cymru leader, Leanne Wood. 

Diolch. I'm going to continue with health, First Minister. You said that winter pressures are expected every year and you're right, and you should be planning for spikes in demand as well every year. Can you honestly say that you believe that the health service has performed well over the winter in dealing with those pressures and spikes? 

Diolch. Rwy'n mynd i barhau gydag iechyd, Prif Weinidog. Dywedasoch y disgwylir pwysau'r gaeaf bob blwyddyn ac rydych chi'n iawn, a dylech chi fod yn cynllunio ar gyfer cynnydd sydyn i alw bob blwyddyn hefyd. A allwch chi ddweud o ddifrif eich bod chi'n credu bod y gwasanaeth iechyd wedi perfformio'n dda dros y gaeaf o ran ymdrin â'r pwysau a'r cynnydd sydyn i alw hynny a welsom?

Yes, I do. I think the NHS staff have performed heroically and magnificently over the course of the winter. GPs, of course, are often in the front line. They have worked very hard. Paramedics, incredible, given the fact that they have responded so well to emergency calls, despite the enormous spike in those calls and, of course, hospitals and those who work in the social care sector. They continue to maintain an NHS of enormous scale that receives tens of thousands of contacts and calls every year. There was, of course, a visible peak of pressure into the new year and there were real challenges, but it is now pleasing to see a much improved and stable position that was reported at the end of last week.  

Gallaf, mi allaf. Rwy'n credu bod staff y GIG wedi perfformio'n arwrol ac yn rhagorol yn ystod y gaeaf. Meddygon teulu, wrth gwrs, yw'r rheng flaen yn aml. Maen nhw wedi gweithio'n galed iawn. Parafeddygon, rhyfeddol, o ystyried y ffaith eu bod nhw wedi ymateb mor dda i alwadau brys, er gwaethaf y cynnydd enfawr i'r galwadau hynny ac, wrth gwrs, ysbytai a'r rhai sy'n gweithio yn y sector gofal cymdeithasol. Maen nhw'n parhau i gynnal GIG o faint aruthrol sy'n derbyn degau o filoedd o gysylltiadau a galwadau bob blwyddyn. Roedd uchafbwynt amlwg, wrth gwrs, o bwysau yn y flwyddyn newydd ac roedd heriau gwirioneddol, ond mae'n braf gweld sefyllfa lawer gwell a sefydlog erbyn hyn, a adroddwyd ddiwedd yr wythnos diwethaf.

First Minister, the story that you tell is of a service that's under pressure but coping well, but there's another story as well and that's being told by the media, of hospitals being 'like a battlefield' for NHS staff. Both of those stories can't be true, and I think that you know that winter preparations have not been good enough. Isn't that why we had an apology from Vaughan Gething for cancelled operations? Isn't that why we are hearing the claim from the Royal College of Emergency Medicine that patient safety is being compromised daily, and that the solution is more capacity? The Welsh NHS needs more beds, it needs more nurses and it needs more doctors. The £10 million pounds announced over the weekend came with an admission that pressures across health and social care are above those anticipated. Why do you underestimate these pressures every year? Do you now accept that the Cabinet Secretary was wrong to make the claim in November that the service was in the best position possible to cope with the winter, and do you accept that you were wrong to cut the number of hospital beds? 

Prif Weinidog, mae'r stori yr ydych chi'n ei hadrodd yn un o wasanaeth sydd o dan bwysau ond yn ymdopi'n dda, ond ceir stori arall hefyd sy'n cael ei hadrodd gan y cyfryngau, o ysbytai sydd 'fel maes brwydr' i staff y GIG. Ni all y ddwy stori hynny fod yn wir, ac rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n gwybod nad yw paratoadau'r gaeaf wedi bod yn ddigon da. Onid dyna pam y cawsom ni ymddiheuriad gan Vaughan Gething am lawdriniaethau a ganslwyd? Onid dyna pam yr ydym ni'n clywed yr honiad gan y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys bod diogelwch cleifion yn cael ei beryglu'n feunyddiol, ac mai mwy o gapasiti yw'r ateb? Mae GIG Cymru angen mwy o welyau, mae angen mwy o nyrsys ac mae angen mwy o feddygon. Daeth y £10 miliwn o bunnoedd a gyhoeddwyd dros y penwythnos gyda chyfaddefiad bod pwysau ar draws maes iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn fwy na'r hyn a ragwelwyd. Pam nad ydych chi'n amcangyfrif y pwysau hwn yn ddigonol bob blwyddyn? A ydych chi'n derbyn bellach fod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn anghywir i wneud yr honiad ym mis Tachwedd bod y gwasanaeth yn y sefyllfa orau bosibl i ymdopi â'r gaeaf, ac a ydych chi'n derbyn eich bod chi'n anghywir o ran gostwng nifer y gwelyau ysbyty?

First of all, I think the Cabinet Secretary was correct. Nobody could have predicted the kind of figures that we've seen over the course of the holiday period; I don't think any Member in this Chamber could possibly have predicted that. She mentions beds, but it's more complicated than that, in my view. It's hugely important not in terms of looking at beds, but in terms of getting people out of hospital when they're ready and that's why, of course, it's hugely important that we invest in social care, which we have done, compared with England where social care funding has been cut. It is important that people are able to leave hospital when they are able to do so and that they have the right support to do so. So, it's not simply a question of the number of beds; it's a question of making sure that people are able to leave hospital when they can.   

Yn gyntaf oll, rwy'n credu bod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn gywir. Ni allai neb fod wedi rhagweld y math o ffigurau a welsom yn ystod y gwyliau; nid wyf yn credu bod unrhyw siawns y gallai unrhyw Aelod yn y Siambr hon fod wedi rhagweld hynny. Mae'n sôn am welyau, ond mae mae'n fwy cymhleth na hynny, yn fy marn i. Mae'n hynod bwysig nid o ran edrych ar welyau, ond o ran cael pobl allan o'r ysbyty pan fyddan nhw'n barod a dyna pam, wrth gwrs, mae'n hynod bwysig ein bod ni'n buddsoddi mewn gofal cymdeithasol, yr ydym ni wedi ei wneud, o'i gymharu â Lloegr lle mae cyllid gofal cymdeithasol wedi  ei dorri. Mae'n bwysig bod pobl yn gallu gadael yr ysbyty pan fyddan nhw'n gallu gwneud hynny a bod y cymorth cywir ganddyn nhw i wneud hynny. Felly, nid yw'n fater syml o nifer y gwelyau; mae'n fater o wneud yn siŵr bod pobl yn gallu gadael yr ysbyty pan eu bod yn abl i wneud hynny.

You have an 85 per cent target for hospital beds and you breach that as a matter of routine, which means that patient safety is compromised. You are failing to meet that measure of patient safety, and that is unacceptable. And, First Minister, I have to say, I think you're being complacent. It's not just us; the Royal College of Emergency Medicine is also saying that NHS staffing needs to be increased, and it's in your gift to do that. Without nurses, without doctors and without specialists, there would be no NHS.

We've heard a lot of warm words over the Christmas period from politicians supporting front-line NHS staff, and you've just made a tribute yourself. If you really want to support front-line NHS staff then, First Minister, pay them properly. The pay cap means that nurses are still underpaid and it's in your gift to lift that pay cap. Workforce planning is one of the most important tools that you have at your disposal, yet you won't embrace the need for a new medical training school in the north. No Westminster Government will do this for us; it's your Labour Government's responsibility. A Labour Cabinet Secretary has now admitted responsibility for the lack of planning ahead of the winter pressures. It's time, First Minister, now that you did the same. Given that apology from the health Secretary, will you now accept responsibility for failing to train enough doctors for the Welsh NHS?

Mae gennych chi darged o 85 y cant ar gyfer gwelyau ysbyty ac rydych chi'n methu â chyrraedd hwnnw fel mater o drefn, sy'n golygu bod diogelwch cleifion yn cael ei beryglu. Rydych chi'n methu â bodloni'r mesur hwnnw o ddiogelwch cleifion, ac mae hynny'n annerbyniol. A, Prif Weinidog, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, rwy'n credu eich bod yn hunanfodlon. Nid ni yn unig sy'n dweud hynny; mae'r Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys hefyd yn dweud bod angen cynyddu staffio yn y GIG, ac mae gennych chi'r grym i wneud hynny. Heb nyrsys, heb feddygon a heb arbenigwyr, ni fyddai GIG o gwbl.

Rydym wedi clywed llawer o eiriau gwresog dros gyfnod y Nadolig gan wleidyddion yn cefnogi staff rheng flaen y GIG, ac rydych chi newydd dalu teyrnged eich hun. Os ydych chi wir eisiau cefnogi staff rheng flaen y GIG, yna, Prif Weinidog, dylech eu talu'n briodol. Mae'r cap cyflog yn golygu nad yw nyrsys yn cael eu talu'n ddigonol o hyd, ac mae'r grym gennych chi i ddiddymu'r cap cyflog hwnnw. Mae cynllunio'r gweithlu yn un o'r arfau pwysicaf sydd ar gael i chi, ac eto nid ydych chi'n fodlon derbyn yr angen am ysgol hyfforddiant meddygol newydd yn y gogledd. Ni fydd unrhyw Lywodraeth yn San Steffan yn gwneud hyn i ni; cyfrifoldeb eich Llywodraeth Lafur chi yw hyn. Mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet Llafur bellach wedi cyfaddef cyfrifoldeb am y diffyg cynllunio cyn pwysau'r gaeaf. Mae'n bryd, Prif Weinidog, i chithau wneud yr un peth nawr. O ystyried yr ymddiheuriad hwnnw gan yr ysgrifennydd dros Iechyd, a wnewch chi dderbyn cyfrifoldeb nawr am fethu â hyfforddi digon o feddygon ar gyfer GIG Cymru?

Far from it. We see that the recruitment campaign that we have put in place has been very successful in recruiting doctors. You can't recruit doctors at the drop of a hat, particularly A&E specialists, and it's hugely important that—. We have training facilities in place, but it's hugely important that the right professional atmosphere is in place to retain doctors and to attract them in the first place. It's not all about training people simply in Wales—we're not a medical autarky.

Secondly, it is hugely important to understand and I believe that the Cabinet Secretary and the local health boards have done their planning. If we look at the spike in demand that we saw, nobody could have predicted that spike in demand. And I have to say to her: I do not accept that we should allow the UK Government off the hook when it comes to the pay cap. Why on earth should the people of Wales have to fund the failure of a UK Government to lift the pay cap? How can we justify to the people who vote for us that we should pay for something that the UK Government should be paying for? I agree with her, I think the pay cap should lifted, but why should the people of Wales have to pay for it when the UK Government have the responsibility to do it? An increase in pay in the health service carries a price tag of hundreds of millions of pounds: where does the money come from? If we are to do that, then it means money coming out of the budget somewhere else.

I don't disagree with her. I agree with her on the pay cap. She and I are in the same position, but I cannot agree with her that, somehow, we should fill in a gap that the UK Government itself has actually created. Let the Tories pay to ensure the people of Wales are able to pay the staff of the NHS properly.

Dim o gwbl. Rydym ni'n gweld bod yr ymgyrch recriwtio yr ydym ni wedi ei rhoi ar waith wedi bod yn llwyddiannus iawn o ran recriwtio meddygon. Ni allwch chi recriwtio meddygon ar unwaith, yn enwedig arbenigwyr damweiniau ac achosion brys, ac mae'n hynod bwysig—. Mae gennym ni gyfleusterau hyfforddi ar waith, ond mae'n bwysig dros ben bod yr awyrgylch proffesiynol cywir ar waith i gadw meddygon a'u denu yn y lle cyntaf. Nid yw'n ymwneud yn unig â hyfforddi pobl yng Nghymru—nid ydym ni'n awtarciaeth feddygol.

Yn ail, mae'n hynod bwysig deall ac rwy'n credu fod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet a'r byrddau iechyd lleol wedi gwneud eu gwaith cynllunio. Os edrychwn ni ar y cynnydd sydyn i alw a welsom, ni allai neb fod wedi rhagweld y cynnydd sydyn hwnnw i'r galw. Ac mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud wrthi: nid wyf i'n derbyn y dylem ni gymryd cyfrifoldeb oddi wrth Llywodraeth y DU o ran y cap cyflog. Pam ar y ddaear ddylai fod rhaid i bobl Cymru ariannu methiant Llywodraeth y DU i ddiddymu'r cap cyflog? Sut gallwn ni gyfiawnhau i bobl sy'n pleidleisio drosom ni y dylem ni dalu am rywbeth y dylai Llywodraeth y DU fod yn talu amdano? Rwy'n cytuno â hi, rwy'n credu y dylai'r cap cyflog gael ei ddiddymu, ond pam ddylai fod rhaid i bobl Cymru dalu amdano pan fo gan Lywodraeth y DU gyfrifoldeb i wneud hynny? Mae cynnydd i gyflogau yn y gwasanaeth iechyd yn costio cannoedd o filiynau o bunnoedd: o ble mae'r arian yn dod? Os ydym ni'n mynd i wneud hynny, yna mae'n golygu arian yn dod allan o'r gyllideb yn rhywle arall.

Nid wyf yn anghytuno â hi. Rwy'n cytuno â hi am y cap cyflog. Mae hi a minnau o'r un safbwynt, ond ni allaf gytuno â hi y dylem ni, rywsut, lenwi'r bwlch y mae Llywodraeth y DU ei hun wedi ei greu. Gadewch i'r Torïaid dalu i sicrhau bod pobl Cymru yn gallu talu staff y GIG yn briodol.

13:50

Arweinydd grŵp UKIP, Neil Hamilton.

The leader of the UKIP group, Neil Hamilton.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. Can I start on a note of amity—which will certainly not continue—at least at the very beginning of the proceedings, and wish the First Minister, and indeed all his Ministers, a happy new year? And I do genuinely wish them success, although I think it's unlikely to be realised. And can I return to the point that was raised by Steffan Lewis earlier on? I'm sure everybody would agree with this too, and say that it's actually an inspiration to us all for him to be here today, and if it's not too frightening a prospect, I'm right behind him in his battle against his terrible disease.

I welcome the transition fund that the First Minister has announced, but does he not agree with me that that would be far more effective if the Welsh Government weren't so relentlessly pessimistic about the opportunities presented by Brexit? And can I ask him, in 2018, for a change of approach to this opportunity for the whole of Britain? And if he's more positive and uplifting about the future, then Welsh businesses themselves will have more confidence in the future, and investment will increase, and we will all be better off.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. A gaf i ddechrau ar nodyn o gyfeillgarwch—na fydd yn parhau, yn sicr—ar gychwyn cyntaf y trafodion, o leiaf, a dymuno blwyddyn newydd dda i'r Prif Weinidog, a'i holl Weinidogion yn wir? Ac rwyf wirioneddol yn dymuno pob llwyddiant iddyn nhw, er fy mod i'n credu ei fod yn annhebygol o gael ei wireddu. Ac a gaf i ddychwelyd at y pwynt a godwyd gan Steffan Lewis gynharach? Rwy'n siŵr y byddai pawb yn cytuno â hyn hefyd, a dweud ei fod wir yn ysbrydoliaeth i ni gyd ei fod yma heddiw, ac os nad yw'n rhagolwg rhy frawychus, rwy'n ei gefnogi'n llwyr yn ei frwydr yn erbyn ei glefyd ofnadwy.

Croesawaf y gronfa bontio y mae'r Prif Weinidog wedi ei chyhoeddi, ond onid yw'n cytuno â mi y byddai honno'n llawer mwy effeithiol pe na byddai Llywodraeth Cymru mor benderfynol o besimistaidd am y cyfleoedd a gyflwynir gan Brexit? Ac a gaf i ofyn iddo, yn 2018, am newid agwedd tuag at y cyfle hwn i Brydain gyfan? Ac os yw'n fwy cadarnhaol a brwdfrydig am y dyfodol, yna bydd gan fusnesau Cymru eu hunain fwy o hyder yn y dyfodol, a bydd buddsoddiad yn cynyddu, a byddwn i gyd yn well ein byd.

Well, first of all, can I wish him all the best as well, and to say to him that I congratulate him on the temporary expansion of his group? I know it didn't last very long, but there we are, back to the famous five.

In terms of the EU fund, businesses are saying to us that they're worried about Brexit. They're worried about the nature of the trading relationship with Europe; that's their major market, and why should it not be? More than 60 per cent of our exports go there, more than 90 per cent of our food and drink exports go there. It's fantasy to suggest that somehow a new market or markets will appear by next year in order to mop up all these exports. If we cannot get right our relationship with our nearest, biggest market, what hope have we got of conducting any kind of agreement with any other market or nation?

That has to be done first, and we don't know what Brexit will look like. Very good to see the UK Government is moving towards our ground, compared to where they were last year. Last year, they weren't going to pay for any kind of financial deal, they weren't interested in EU citizens, they weren't talking about a transitional period: they've done all that. We welcome the fact that they've moved towards the light in that sense, but I have to say to the Member: it's important to be realistic and not be a fantasist when it comes to Brexit. In the referendum, we were told time and time again by members of his own party, 'There will be a trade deal; we can be like Norway.' Now we're hearing, 'Well, don't worry about a trade deal.' Well, businesses are worried about the lack of a trade deal.

Wel, yn gyntaf oll, a gaf i ddymuno'n dda iddo yntau hefyd, a dweud wrtho fy mod i'n ei longyfarch ar ehangiad dros dro ei grŵp? Rwy'n gwybod na wnaeth bara'n hir iawn, ond dyna ni, yn ôl i'r pum enwog.

O ran cronfa'r UE, mae busnesau yn dweud wrthym ni eu bod nhw'n poeni am Brexit. Maen nhw'n poeni am natur y berthynas fasnachu gydag Ewrop; dyna eu prif farchnad, a pham na ddylai fod? Mae mwy na 60 y cant o'n hallforion yn mynd yno, mwy na 90 y cant o'n hallforion bwyd a diod yn mynd yno. Ffantasi yw awgrymu y bydd marchnad neu farchnadoedd newydd yn ymddangos o rywle erbyn y flwyddyn nesaf i gymryd lle yr holl allforion hyn. Os na allwn ni gael ein perthynas gyda'n marchnad agosaf a mwyaf yn iawn, pa obaith sydd gennym ni o gynnal unrhyw fath o gytundeb gydag unrhyw farchnad neu wlad arall?

Mae'n rhaid gwneud hynny'n gyntaf, ac nid ydym ni'n gwybod sut y bydd Brexit yn edrych. Mae'n braf iawn gweld bod Llywodraeth y DU yn symud tuag at ein tir ni, o'i gymharu â lle'r oedden nhw y llynedd. Y llynedd, nid oedden nhw'n mynd i dalu am unrhyw fath o gytundeb ariannol, nid oedd ganddyn nhw ddim diddordeb yn ninasyddion yr UE, nid oedd sôn am gyfnod pontio: maen nhw wedi gwneud hynny i gyd. Rydym ni'n croesawu'r ffaith eu bod nhw wedi symud tuag at y golau yn yr ystyr hwnnw, ond mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud wrth yr Aelod: mae'n bwysig bod yn realistig a pheidio â bod yn freuddwydiwr pan ddaw i Brexit. Yn y refferendwm, dywedwyd wrthym dro ar ôl tro gan aelodau ei blaid ei hun, 'Bydd cytundeb masnach; gallwn ni fod fel Norwy.' Nawr rydym ni'n clywed, 'Wel, peidiwch â phoeni am gytundeb masnach.' Wel, mae busnesau yn poeni am y diffyg cytundeb masnach.

Well, can I respond to the First Minister's sally about the temporary expansion of our group? UKIP has done a great deal since the beginning of the year to entertain the country and cheer us all up. But, we are here to fight for what we believe in and we will continue the fight as we have done in the last year with a group of five.

But one of the opportunities that Brexit offers to us if we are not part of the single market is that we then secure control of regulation. He will have seen that, last week, the markets in financial instruments directive came into force throughout the whole of the EU. This is 7,000 pages long, it contains 1.4 million paragraphs, it's six times the size of the Bible, and it will require all financial firms that deal in shares, bonds, derivatives—indeed, all financial instruments—to acquire a huge mass of documentation, which they'll then have to publish and preserve for five years, imposing mammoth costs on financial services firms. If we're outside the single market, we can slim down that burden of regulation without any danger to the public at all. Dublin has made a great success out of expansion of its financial services businesses by having a tax advantage by reducing corporation tax. Does the First Minister agree with me that Cardiff, as a developing financial centre, could greatly benefit from a slimmed-down financial regulation system whilst properly serving the public interest? Ten per cent of people who work in Cardiff are in financial and professional services, they contribute £1.2 billion a year in gross value added and, indeed, in Wales as a whole it's £3 billion. So, will the First Minister agree with me that it would be a good thing if he were to look to have proportionate regulation in the financial services sector as a means of kick-starting the financial services industry here in Wales?

Wel, a gaf i ymateb i ffraetheb y Prif Weinidog am ehangiad dros dro ein grŵp? Mae UKIP wedi gwneud llawer iawn ers dechrau'r flwyddyn i ddiddanu'r wlad a chodi calonnau pob un ohonom ni. Ond, rydym ni yma i ymladd dros yr hyn yr ydym yn credu ynddo a byddwn yn parhau y ymladd fel yr ydym ni wedi ei wneud yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf gyda grŵp o bump.

Ond un o'r cyfleoedd y mae Brexit yn eu cynnig i ni os nad ydym yn rhan o'r farchnad sengl yw ein bod ni'n sicrhau rheolaeth ar reoleiddio wedyn. Bydd wedi gweld, yr wythnos diwethaf, bod y gyfarwyddeb marchnadoedd mewn offerynnau ariannol wedi dod i rym drwy'r UE gyfan. Mae hon yn 7,000 o dudalennau o hyd, mae'n cynnwys 1.4 miliwn o baragraffau, mae chwe gwaith maint y Beibl, a bydd yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i bob cwmni ariannol sy'n delio mewn cyfranddaliadau, bondiau, deilliadau—pob offeryn ariannol yn wir—gaffael màs enfawr o ddogfennau, y bydd yn rhaid iddyn nhw eu cyhoeddi a'u cadw am bum mlynedd wedyn, gan orfodi costau aruthrol ar gwmnïau gwasanaethau ariannol. Os ydym ni y tu allan i'r farchnad sengl, gallwn gwtogi'r baich rheoleiddio hwnnw heb unrhyw berygl i'r cyhoedd o gwbl. Mae Dulyn wedi gwneud llwyddiant mawr o ehangu ei busnesau gwasanaethau ariannol trwy gael mantais dreth trwy leihau treth gorfforaeth. A yw'r Prif Weinidog yn cytuno â mi y gallai Caerdydd, fel canolfan ariannol sy'n datblygu, elwa'n fawr ar system rheoleiddio ariannol symlach gan wasanaethu budd y cyhoedd yn briodol? Mae deg y cant o'r bobl sy'n gweithio yng Nghaerdydd yn y gwasanaethau ariannol a phroffesiynol, maen nhw'n cyfrannu £1.2 biliwn y flwyddyn o werth ychwanegol gros ac, yn wir, mae'n £3 biliwn yng Nghymru yn ei chyfanrwydd. Felly, a wnaiff y Prif Weinidog gytuno â mi y byddai'n beth da pe byddai'n ceisio cael rheoleiddio cymesur yn y sector gwasanaethau ariannol fel ffordd o roi hwb i'r diwydiant gwasanaethau ariannol yma yng Nghymru?

13:55

First of all, I don't begrudge his party's ability to provide us with entertainment, as he rightly pointed out. But, turning to the points that he makes, first of all, the issue is not devolved, as he knows, but, in terms of the principle of it, I don't agree with him that the point of Brexit is wholesale deregulation. Our financial services sector will still have to operate in the European market. If it doesn't follow the rules of the European market, it won't be able to operate there, and that will have enormous consequences for jobs, not just in Wales, but also in the rest of the UK, particularly the City. The City has been a place where a great deal of European operations have taken place. If the regulations in the UK are substantially different, people won't come to the UK, because they want to operate in a bigger market.

Secondly, we have to remember that the financial crash of 2007 was caused, at least in great part, by deregulation of financial services, and the fact that an opportunity was given to irresponsible financiers to play around with people's money, to lend to people who had no hope of paying them back, and the financial system collapsed as a result of it. So, from my perspective, yes, regulation has to be proportionate, but it has to be there because, bluntly, given what we saw in 2007-08, there are some who work in the large financial centres in this world who cannot be trusted with other people's money.

Yn gyntaf oll, nid wyf yn gwarafun gallu ei blaid i ddarparu adloniant i ni, fel y dywedodd yn briodol. Ond, gan droi at y pwyntiau a wna, yn gyntaf oll, nid yw'r mater wedi ei ddatganoli, fel y mae'n gwybod, ond, o ran ei egwyddor, nid wyf yn cytuno ag ef mai dadreoleiddio helaeth yw diben Brexit. Bydd yn rhaid i'n sector gwasanaethau ariannol weithredu yn y farchnad Ewropeaidd o hyd. Os nad yw'n dilyn rheolau'r farchnad Ewropeaidd, ni fydd yn gallu gweithredu yno, a bydd hynny'n arwain at oblygiadau enfawr i swyddi, nid yn unig yng Nghymru, ond hefyd yng ngweddill y DU, yn enwedig yn y Ddinas. Mae'r Ddinas wedi bod yn fan lle mae llawer iawn o weithrediadau Ewropeaidd wedi eu cynnal. Os bydd y rheoliadau yn y DU yn sylweddol wahanol, ni fydd pobl yn dod i'r DU, gan eu bod nhw eisiau gweithredu mewn marchnad fwy.

Yn ail, mae'n rhaid i ni gofio bod argyfwng ariannol 2007 wedi cael ei achosi, i raddau helaeth o leiaf, gan ddadreoleiddio gwasanaethau ariannol, a'r ffaith y rhoddwyd cyfle i arianwyr anghyfrifol chwarae o gwmpas gydag arian pobl, benthyg i bobl nad oedd ganddynt unrhyw obaith o'u had-dalu, a chwalodd y system ariannol o ganlyniad i hynny. Felly, o'm safbwynt i, oes, mae'n rhaid i reoleiddio fod yn gymesur, ond mae'n rhaid iddo fod yno oherwydd, yn blwmp ac yn blaen, o ystyried yr hyn a welsom yn 2007-08, ceir rhai sy'n gweithio mewn canolfannau ariannol mawr yn y byd hwn na ellir ymddiried arian pobl eraill iddynt.

The First Minister knows that MiFID has nothing to do with the kind of conduct that caused the crash or made it far worse in 2008, when I remind the First Minister, of course, we had a Labour Government, a Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer, and a Labour Prime Minister who himself wanted a light-touch regulatory system. Of course, we all learnt great lessons from that. But, regulation such as MiFID II, which requires this vast amount of information storage and retrieval, is far too great for any regulatory body to be able to use effectively. So, it's imposing a vast cost upon firms and, therefore, the public at large, which ultimately bear the cost of all business taxes, for no practical benefit to anybody at all. The result of that is to drive financial services business away from Europe altogether to places like New York, Hong Kong, Singapore and so on and so forth.

So, for Britain, there's a great opportunity post Brexit, if we can't do a deal with the EU. And nobody ever guaranteed any kind of trade deal with the EU; nobody was able to do that. It's not in our gift to force the EU to enter into a deal with us, we just said that it was in their own self-interest, as indeed ours, to come to an agreement, but nobody can force them to do that. But if no such deal is available, then the world out there is much bigger than Europe: 85 per cent of the global economy is outside Europe. Should we not be positive about those opportunities, rather than relentlessly negative and saying that the future lies in what is a contracting part of the world economy?

Mae'r Prif Weinidog yn gwybod nad oedd gan MiFID ddim i'w wneud â'r math o ymddygiad a achosodd yr argyfwng neu ei wneud yn waeth o lawer yn 2008, ac rwy'n atgoffa'r Prif Weinidog, wrth gwrs, bod gennym ni Lywodraeth Lafur, Canghellor y Trysorlys Llafur, a Phrif Weinidog Llafur a oedd ei hun eisiau system reoleiddio ysgafn bryf hynny. Wrth gwrs, dysgwyd gwersi mawr o hynny gan bob un ohonom ni. Ond, mae rheoliad fel MiFID II, sy'n gofyn am storio ac adalw llawer iawn o wybodaeth yn rhy fawr o lawer i unrhyw gorff rheoleiddio allu ei ddefnyddio'n effeithiol. Felly, mae'n gorfodi cost lethol ar gwmnïau ac, felly, ar y cyhoedd yn gyffredinol, sy'n cymryd cyfrifoldeb am bob treth fusnes yn y pen draw, heb unrhyw fudd ymarferol i unrhyw un o gwbl. Canlyniad hynny yw gyrru busnes gwasanaethau ariannol i ffwrdd o Ewrop yn gyfan gwbl i leoedd fel Efrog Newydd, Hong Kong, Singapore ac yn y blaen.

Felly, i Brydain, ceir cyfle gwych ar ôl Brexit, os na allwn ddod i gytundeb gyda'r UE. A ni sicrhaodd neb unrhyw fath o gytundeb masnach gyda'r UE erioed; nid oedd neb yn gallu gwneud hynny. Nid yw yn ein rhodd i orfodi'r UE i ddod i gytundeb gyda ni, y cwbl a ddywedasom ni oedd ei fod o fudd iddyn nhw eu hunain, fel y mae i ninnau, i ddod i gytundeb, ond ni all neb eu gorfodi nhw i wneud hynny. Ond os nad oes cytundeb o'r fath ar gael, yna mae'r byd y tu allan yna yn llawer mwy nag Ewrop: mae 85 y cant o'r economi fyd-eang y tu allan i Ewrop. Oni ddylem ni fod yn gadarnhaol am y cyfleoedd hynny, yn hytrach na bod yn benderfynol o negyddol a dweud fod y dyfodol yn dibynnu ar yr hyn sy'n rhan o economi'r byd sy'n lleihau?

Well, the thing is, he contradicts himself now, because he complains about a directive, but in the future, the UK will have no role at all in influencing those directives. The UK will have to accept them or not have access to the European market. The UK's voice is much diminished now compared to where it was in the past.

Secondly, he seems to think the world out there is a world that is open to trade with the UK. Other markets are equally as closed. If you look at the US, that is a market that does not trade freely with the rest of the world, nor does China, nor does India. There seems to be this thought among some in his party that, somehow, the world is just waiting to conduct free-trade agreements with the UK. That is certainly not what other countries are saying, and certainly not what the experience has been in the past. Six or seven years is the average timescale for agreeing a free-trade agreement. We have in the US a President who puts America first. Does he really think that we will have an equitable free-trade agreement with the US with a president who is open about his views on protecting American industry? Will we have, for example, a back-door TTIP as a result of the Trade Bill, which forces us to privatise large parts of the public sector—something that we will oppose tooth and nail?

But, ultimately, as I've said before, we are at present in the single market. I'd like us to stay in the single market or have full and unfettered access to the single market. We already have a great deal of convergence with it. If we cannot agree a deal with a market where we have so much in common to begin with, we have no chance of agreeing a deal with other markets that are much, much different, with different regulations that we would then have to try to harmonise. The European market is our biggest market, it's on our doorstep, we have a land border with it, we export 60 per cent of our exports to it. We cannot allow our policy on the European single market to be blinded by ridiculous, nationalist nonsense. 

Wel, y peth yw, mae'n gwrth-ddweud ei hun nawr, oherwydd mae'n cwyno am gyfarwyddeb, ond yn y dyfodol, ni fydd gan y DU unrhyw ran o gwbl mewn dylanwadu ar y cyfarwyddebau hynny. Bydd yn rhaid i'r DU eu derbyn nhw neu beidio â chael mynediad at y farchnad Ewropeaidd. Mae llais y DU yn llawer llai nawr o'i gymharu â'r hyn yr oedd yn y gorffennol.

Yn ail, mae'n ymddangos ei fod yn meddwl bod y byd allan yna yn agored i fasnachu gyda'r DU. Mae marchnadoedd eraill yr un mor gaeedig. Os edrychwch chi ar yr Unol Daleithiau, mae honno'n farchnad nad yw'n masnachu'n rhydd gyda gweddill y byd, ac nid yw Tsieina'n gwneud hynny ychwaith, nac India. Mae'n ymddangos bod y syniad hwn ymhlith rhai yn ei blaid, rywsut, bod y byd ddim ond yn disgwyl i ddod i gytundebau masnach rydd gyda'r DU. Nid dyna mae'r gwledydd eraill yn ei ddweud yn sicr, ac yn sicr nid dyna fu'r profiad yn y gorffennol. Chwe neu saith mlynedd yw'r amserlen gyfartalog ar gyfer cytuno cytundeb masnach rydd. Mae gennym ni yn yr Unol Daleithiau Arlywydd sy'n rhoi America yn gyntaf. A yw ef wir yn credu y bydd gennym ni gytundeb masnach rydd teg gyda'r Unol Daleithiau gydag arlywydd sy'n agored ei farn ar ddiogelu diwydiant America? A fydd gennym ni, er enghraifft, TTIP drws cefn o ganlyniad i'r Bil Masnach, sy'n ein gorfodi i breifateiddio rhannau helaeth o'r sector cyhoeddus—rhywbeth y byddwn yn ei wrthwynebu â'n holl nerth?

Ond, yn y pen draw, fel yr wyf i wedi ei ddweud o'r blaen, rydym ni yn y farchnad sengl ar hyn o bryd. Hoffwn i ni aros yn y farchnad sengl neu gael mynediad llawn a dilyffethair at y farchnad sengl. Mae gennym ni lawer iawn o gydgyfeirio â hi eisoes. Os na allwn ni ddod i gytundeb gyda marchnad lle mae gennym ni gymaint yn gyffredin i gychwyn, nid oes gennym ni unrhyw obaith o ddod i gytundeb â marchnadoedd eraill sy'n wahanol iawn, iawn, sydd â gwahanol reoliadau y byddai'n rhaid i ni geisio eu cysoni wedyn. Y farchnad Ewropeaidd yw ein marchnad fwyaf, mae ar garreg ein drws, mae gennym ni ffin dirol â hi, rydym ni'n allforio 60 y cant o'n hallforion iddi. Ni allwn ganiatáu i'n polisi ar y farchnad sengl Ewropeaidd gael ei ddallu gan lol cenedlaetholgar, gwirion.

14:00
Datblygu Economaidd
Economic Development

3. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am ddatblygu economaidd yng Ngorllewin De Cymru? OAQ51508

3. Will the First Minister make a statement on economic development in South Wales West? OAQ51508

Nid oedd hynny wedi'i anelu ato fe, Llywydd. Ond a gaf i ddweud bod ein cynlluniau ar gyfer datblygu economaidd i’w gweld yn 'Ffyniant i Bawb' a’r cynllun gweithredu economaidd? Rŷm ni’n parhau i ddarparu amrywiaeth o gefnogaeth i fusnesau Cymru drwy, er enghraifft, Busnes Cymru a’r banc datblygu, a hefyd yn buddsoddi mewn seilwaith ac yn cymryd camau i wella amodau busnes. 

That wasn’t aimed at him, Llywydd. But may I say that our plans for economic development are set out in 'Prosperity for All' and the economic action plan? We continue to provide a wide range of support to businesses in Wales through, for example, Business Wales and the development bank. We also provide infrastructure investment and take actions to improve business conditions.

Diolch yn fawr am yr ateb yna, Prif Weinidog. Nawr, yn naturiol, mae ffigurau GVA diweddaraf y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol yn dangos bod economi Cymru yn parhau i fod yn waeth na gweddill y Deyrnas Unedig, gyda GVA y pen dim ond yn 72 y cant o'r cyfartaledd Prydeinig. Mae gennym ni hefyd anghydraddoldeb economaidd sylweddol yma yng Nghymru, gyda Chastell-nedd Port Talbot o fewn fy rhanbarth i, er enghraifft, bron i 10 y cant islaw cyfartaledd Cymru.

Nawr, mae pobl yn teimlo bod yr ardal yn cael ei hesgeuluso, ac nid ydynt yn argyhoeddedig y bydd ymdrechion y fargen ddinesig a thasglu'r Cymoedd yn cyflawni'r newid economaidd angenrheidiol i'n cymunedau, yn enwedig yng nghymoedd y sir. A ydych chi'n cytuno, felly, bod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru a chyngor Castell-nedd wneud llawer mwy i sicrhau bod ardaloedd fel cymoedd Abertawe, Nedd ac Afan yn dal i fyny â gweddill Cymru a'r Deyrnas Unedig yn economaidd?

Thank you for that response, First Minister. Now, naturally, the latest GVA figures from the Office for National Statistics show that the Welsh economy continues to perform worse than the rest of the UK, with GVA per capita at only 72 per cent of the UK average. We also have significant economic inequality here in Wales, with Neath Port Talbot in my region, for example, almost 10 per cent below the Welsh average.

Now, people feel that the area is being neglected and they are not convinced that the efforts of the city deal and the Valleys taskforce will deliver the necessary economic change for our communities, particularly in the valleys of the county. Do you agree, therefore, that the Welsh Government and Neath Port Talbot council must do a great deal more to ensure that areas such as the Swansea valleys and the Neath and Afan valleys catch up with the rest of Wales and the rest of the UK economically?

Wel, yn iawn, ond a gaf i ddweud, i ddechrau, wrth gwrs, fe wnaeth Llywodraeth Cymru lot fawr o waith ynghlŷn â sicrhau dyfodol gwaith dur Port Talbot? Fe wnaeth Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig ddim, o beth y gallaf i ei weld. Fe siaradais i lawer gyda Tata yma yng Nghymru, a hefyd yn Mumbai, a gweithio gyda'r undebau er mwyn sicrhau dyfodol y gwaith dur. Rwy'n cofio, blwyddyn a hanner yn ôl, roedd y dyfodol hwnnw yn edrych yn sigledig dros ben. Ac, wrth gwrs, rŷm ni'n gwybod bod y gwaith dur yn talu'n dda yn yr ardal. Ac, wrth gwrs, trwy ddefnyddio tasglu'r Cymoedd, a hefyd gweithio gyda'r fargen ddinesig, mae'n hollbwysig bod y gwaith yn parhau. A gaf i ddweud ei fod e'n hollbwysig bod Castell Nedd Port Talbot yn ystyried eu bod nhw'n rhan o fae Abertawe ac yn gweithio gyda chyngorau eraill ym mae Abertawe er mwyn sicrhau dyfodol economaidd yr ardal yn gyfan gwbl?

Well, fine, but may I say in the first place that Welsh Government did a great deal of work as regards securing the future of the Port Talbot steelworks? The UK Government did nothing, from what I can see. I spoke a lot with Tata here in Wales, and also in Mumbai, and worked with the unions to secure the future of the steelworks. A year and a half ago, its future looked very shaky indeed. And, of course, we know that the steelworks pays well in the area. And, of course, by using the Valleys taskforce, and also collaborating with the city deal, it is vital that that work continues. May I say that it is essential that Neath Port Talbot considers itself part of the Swansea bay area and works with other councils in Swansea bay in order to secure the economic future of that whole area?

Since I've been an Assembly Member, which is the best part of seven years now, Welsh Government has given over £320 million of taxpayers' money towards businesses in Wales, which, of course, includes South Wales West. By October, just at the end of last year, we heard that less than £7 million of that total has been repaid to date, and, even from a Welsh Conservative point of view, which embraces calculated risk, that's really a pretty poor rate of repayment. Will the—and I quote this—

'Economic Contract between business and government',

referred to in the new economic plan, include a requirement that all loans are paid in full and on time, and contain the relevant provisions for enforcement?

Ers i mi fod yn Aelod o'r Cynulliad, sef y rhan helaeth o saith mlynedd erbyn hyn, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi rhoi dros £320 miliwn o arian trethdalwyr tuag at fusnesau yng Nghymru, sydd, wrth gwrs, yn cynnwys Gorllewin De Cymru. Erbyn mis Hydref, dim ond ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn diwethaf, clywsom fod llai na £7 miliwn o'r cyfanswm hwnnw wedi cael ei ad-dalu hyd yn hyn, a, hyd yn oed o safbwynt y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, sy'n croesawu mentro gofalus, mae honno wir yn gyfradd ad-dalu eithaf gwael. A fydd—ac rwy'n dyfynnu hyn—

y Contract Economaidd rhwng busnes a llywodraeth,

y cyfeirir ato yn y cynllun economaidd newydd, yn cynnwys gofyniad bod pob benthyciad yn cael ei ad-dalu yn llawn ac yn brydlon, ac yn cynnwys y darpariaethau perthnasol ar gyfer gorfodi?

Well, yes, but she doesn't say that the loans aren't being paid on time; she just says that a relatively small percentage have been repaid, which I would expect at this stage anyway, in terms of the process—unless she is saying that we demand that loans are paid back in a time period that is not appropriate in terms of job creation. Of course, we've always taken the position, over the years, of ensuring that money is recouped where that can be done. We've taken action to do that when it comes to grant funding, for example, and we will continue to do that. Can I remind her that the £60 million package that we put on the table ensured the survival of Tata Port Talbot at a time when the UK Government did nothing? We asked the UK Government to deal with energy prices; they did nothing about that at all. We asked the UK Government to deal with the issue of pensions; they did nothing about that either. Tata and ourselves worked together to secure the future of the steel industry in Wales as the UK Government stood by and did nothing. 

Wel, bydd, ond nid yw hi'n dweud nad yw benthyciadau yn cael eu talu yn brydlon; y cwbl mae'n ei ddweud yw bod canran gymharol fach wedi cael eu had-dalu, y byddwn yn ei ddisgwyl ar hyn o bryd beth bynnag, o ran y broses—oni bai ei bod hi'n dweud ein bod ni'n mynnu bod benthyciadau yn cael eu had-dalu mewn cyfnod o amser nad yw'n briodol o ran creu swyddi. Wrth gwrs, rydym ni wedi bod o'r safbwynt erioed, dros y blynyddoedd, o sicrhau bod arian yn cael ei adennill lle gellir gwneud hynny. Rydym ni wedi cymryd camau i wneud hynny pan ddaw i gyllid grant, er enghraifft, a byddwn yn parhau i wneud hynny. A gaf i ei hatgoffa bod y pecyn gwerth £60 miliwn a roddwyd ar y bwrdd gennym wedi sicrhau goroesiad Tata Port Talbot ar adeg pan na wnaeth Llywodraeth y DU unrhyw beth? Gofynnwyd i Lywodraeth y DU ymdrin â phrisiau ynni; ni wnaeth unrhyw beth o gwbl am hynny. Gofynnwyd i Lywodraeth y DU ymdrin â'r mater o bensiynau; ni wnaeth unrhyw beth am hynny ychwaith. Gweithiodd Tata a ninnau gyda'n gilydd i sicrhau dyfodol y diwydiant dur yng Nghymru wrth i Lywodraeth y DU sefyll o'r neilltu a gwneud dim.

First Minister, I agree totally with the actions the Welsh Government have taken to support Tata, particularly in my patch, and the failure of the UK Government—they've done literally nothing. But the question is—. I want to expand on Dai Lloyd's point, I think: the consequence of Tata losing its workforce has meant that well-paid and skilled jobs have gone. As we see, in industries and businesses coming in, they tend to be more the minimum wage and zero-hour contracts. What are you doing as a Welsh Government to actually encourage jobs into the area that are matching the skills and the pay levels that we are seeing lost?

Prif Weinidog, rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â'r camau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi eu cymryd i gefnogi Tata, yn enwedig yn fy ardal i, a methiant Llywodraeth y DU—dydyn nhw wedi gwneud dim yn llythrennol. Ond y cwestiwn yw—. Hoffwn ymhelaethu ar bwynt Dai Lloyd, rwy'n credu: mae canlyniad Tata yn colli ei weithlu wedi golygu bod wedi swyddi medrus sy'n talu'n dda wedi diflannu. Fel y gwelwn, mewn diwydiannau a busnesau sy'n dod i mewn, maen nhw'n tueddu i fod fwy ar sail contractau isafswm cyflog a dim oriau. Beth ydych chi'n ei wneud fel Llywodraeth i annog swyddi i'r ardal sy'n cyfateb y sgiliau a'r lefelau cyflog yr ydym ni'n eu gweld yn cael eu colli?

14:05

It's down to training on the job. First of all, the economic policy of the late 1980s and early 1990s was to attract investment into Wales based on the fact that we had lower wage rates than anywhere else in western Europe. Those days, thankfully, are gone. We now attract investment that is well paid. We have investors coming into Wales who would never have come here 20 years ago. They wouldn't have seen Wales as a place where they could get the skilled, well-paid workforce that they require. That's why, of course, we have the economic action plan. It's why we've put so much emphasis on skills through schemes like Jobs Growth Wales, to make sure that our people have the skills they need to earn more when investors come to Wales and when they set up their own businesses. That is the answer, to my mind, in making sure that we see GVA per head improve over the next few years.

Mae'n ymwneud â hyfforddiant mewn swydd. Yn gyntaf oll, polisi economaidd diwedd y 1980au a dechrau'r 1990au oedd denu buddsoddiad i Gymru yn seiliedig ar y ffaith fod gennym ni gyfraddau cyflog is nag unman arall yng ngorllewin Ewrop. Mae'r dyddiau hynny, diolch byth, wedi mynd. Rydym ni'n denu buddsoddiad sy'n talu'n dda erbyn hyn. Mae gennym ni fuddsoddwyr yn dod i Gymru na fydden nhw fyth wedi dod yma 20 mlynedd yn ôl. Ni fydden nhw wedi ystyried Cymru fel lle y gallen nhw gael y gweithlu medrus, sy'n cael ei dalu'n dda sydd ei angen arnynt. Dyna pam, wrth gwrs, mae gennym ni'r cynllun gweithredu economaidd. Dyna pam yr ydym ni wedi rhoi cymaint o bwyslais ar sgiliau trwy gynlluniau fel Twf Swyddi Cymru, i wneud yn siŵr bod gan ein pobl y sgiliau sydd eu hangen arnynt i ennill mwy pan fydd buddsoddwyr yn dod i Gymru a phan fyddant yn sefydlu eu busnesau eu hunain. Dyna'r ateb, yn fy marn i, i wneud yn siŵr ein bod ni'n gweld gwerth ychwanegol gros y pen yn gwella dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd nesaf.

Canmlwyddiant y Bleidlais i Fenywod
The Centenary Anniversary of Women’s Suffrage

4. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am gamau Llywodraeth Cymru i nodi canmlwyddiant y bleidlais i fenywod? OAQ51524

4. Will the First Minister make a statement on Welsh Government action to mark the centenary anniversary of women’s suffrage? OAQ51524

We'll be fully involved in the UK-wide celebrations of the one hundredth anniversary of the Representation of the People Act 1918. More details about how we will mark that centenary throughout the course of this year will be made available this month.

Byddwn yn cymryd rhan lawn yn y dathliadau ledled y DU ar gyfer canfed pen-blwydd Deddf Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl 1918. Bydd mwy o fanylion am sut y byddwn yn dathlu'r canmlwyddiant hwnnw trwy gydol y flwyddyn ar gael y mis hwn.

I thank the First Minister for that answer. In November 2017, data from the World Economic Forum showed for the first time a year-on-year worsening of the gender gap since 2006. In fact, the group predicts that it would take a century to close all areas of equality that it monitors globally, well up from the 83 years predicted in 2016. They predict that women will have to wait 217 years before they earn as much as men and are equally represented in the workplace. So, will you join me in backing Chwarae Teg's goal to make Wales the global leader in gender equality with their fair play employer benchmark, and embed this in the Welsh Government's economic action plan?

Diolchaf i'r Prif Weinidog am yr ateb yna. Ym mis Tachwedd 2017, dangosodd data gan Fforwm Economaidd y Byd waethygiad y bwlch rhwng y rhywiau o flwyddyn i flwyddyn am y tro cyntaf ers 2006. A dweud y gwir, mae'r grŵp yn rhagweld y byddai'n cymryd canrif i gau'r holl feysydd cydraddoldeb y mae'n eu monitro yn fyd-eang, cynnydd sylweddol o'r 83 mlynedd a ragwelwyd yn 2016. Maen nhw'n rhagweld y bydd yn rhaid i fenywod aros 217 mlynedd cyn y byddan nhw'n ennill cymaint â dynion ac yn cael eu cynrychioli'n gyfartal yn y gweithle. Felly, a wnewch chi ymuno â mi i gefnogi nod Chwarae Teg o wneud Cymru yn arweinydd byd-eang o ran cydraddoldeb rhwng y rhywiau gyda'u meincnod cyflogwr chwarae teg, ac ymgorffori hwn yng nghynllun gweithredu economaidd Llywodraeth Cymru?

Yes. We work with businesses, trade unions and others on implementing the plan, the economic action plan, and that will be informed by the advice and recommendations of the fair work board. Because we've asked the fair work board to provide recommendations to us, it wouldn't be appropriate to pre-empt their findings by committing to Chwarae Teg's benchmark at this stage. But I do welcome very much Chwarae Teg's initiative in developing the benchmark, which will help to support organisations to deliver gender equality in the workplace.  

Gwnaf. Rydym ni'n gweithio gyda busnesau, undebau llafur ac eraill ar weithredu'r cynllun, y cynllun gweithredu economaidd, a bydd hwnnw'n cael ei lywio gan gyngor ac argymhellion y bwrdd gwaith teg. Gan ein bod ni wedi gofyn i'r bwrdd gwaith teg roi argymhellion i ni, ni fyddai'n briodol achub y blaen ar eu canfyddiadau trwy ymrwymo i feincnod Chwarae Teg ar hyn o bryd. Ond rwy'n croesawu'n fawr iawn menter Chwarae Teg o ddatblygu'r meincnod, a fydd yn helpu i gynorthwyo sefydliadau i sicrhau cydraddoldeb rhwng y rhywiau yn y gweithle.

One hundred years after women obtained the vote and almost 50 years after Equal Pay Act 1970, it is outrageous that here in Wales we still have a gender pay differential gap of around 13 per cent. Interestingly enough, the highest pay gap in Wales is in your own constituency of Bridgend, where it stands at a staggering 27 per cent. First Minister, what actions are you taking or have you taken, perhaps looking at your own constituency, to address this, but more widely across Wales? Because you are the First Minister, and you are ultimately responsible for ensuring that there is genuine equality across Wales for both men and women.

Gan mlynedd ar ôl i fenywod gael y bleidlais a bron i 50 mlynedd ar ôl Deddf Cyflog Cyfartal 1970, mae'n warthus bod gennym ni fwlch cyflog o tua 13 y cant rhwng y rhywiau yma yng Nghymru o hyd. Yn ddiddorol ddigon, mae'r bwlch cyflog uchaf yng Nghymru yn eich etholaeth chi ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr, lle mae'n ganran rhyfeddol o 27 y cant. Prif Weinidog, pa gamau ydych chi'n eu cymryd neu ydych chi wedi eu cymryd, gan edrych ar eich etholaeth eich hun efallai, i fynd i'r afael â hyn, ond yn fwy eang ledled Cymru? Oherwydd chi yw'r Prif Weinidog, a chi sy'n gyfrifol yn y pen draw am sicrhau bod cydraddoldeb gwirioneddol ledled Cymru i ddynion ac i fenywod.

First of all, we introduced a public sector equality duty in 2011 to address pay and employment differences, and specifically gender pay differences at that time. Those duties apply in Wales. They're broad, encompassing the need to understand and address the causes of pay differences for all people. Improving women's place in the workforce is a long-term structural change. We know there is more to do—the Member said that, of course—through programmes such as our Agile Nation 2 project, run by Chwarae Teg. We are seeing that, with the right training and support, we can help women move into management and into senior roles. And, of course, as I mentioned earlier on, the economic action plan will be informed by the recommendations that come through from the fair work board.

Yn gyntaf oll, cyflwynwyd dyletswydd cydraddoldeb sector cyhoeddus gennym ni yn 2011 i fynd i'r afael â gwahaniaethau cyflog a chyflogaeth, a gwahaniaethau cyflog rhwng y rhywiau bryd hynny yn benodol. Mae'r dyletswyddau hynny yn berthnasol yng Nghymru. Maen nhw'n eang, ac yn cynnwys yr angen i ddeall ac ymdrin ag achosion gwahaniaethau cyflog i bawb. Mae gwella lle menywod yn y gweithlu yn newid strwythurol tymor hir. Rydym ni'n gwybod bod mwy i'w wneud—dywedodd yr Aelod hynny, wrth gwrs—trwy raglenni fel ein prosiect Cenedl Hyblyg 2, sy'n cael ei redeg gan Chwarae Teg. Rydym ni'n gweld, gyda'r hyfforddiant a'r cymorth priodol, y gallwn ni helpu menywod i symud i mewn i swyddi rheoli ac uwch. Ac, wrth gwrs, fel y soniais yn gynharach, bydd y cynllun gweithredu economaidd yn cael ei lywio gan yr argymhellion sy'n deillio o'r bwrdd gwaith teg.

Mae'n bwysig cofio beth yn union ddigwyddodd yn 1918, wrth gwrs, pan gafodd menywod bleidleisio am y tro cyntaf, ond nid oedd yna ddim cydraddoldeb efo dynion. Roedd dynion 21 oed yn cael pleidleisio, ond roedd yn rhaid i fenywod fod yn 30 oed ac yn berchen ar eiddo. Mi gymerodd hi 10 mlynedd arall cyn i ferched a dynion gael eu trin yn gydradd fel pleidleiswyr. Wrth gwrs, rydw i'n siŵr eich bod yn cytuno ein bod yn bell o fod mewn sefyllfa o gydraddoldeb rhwng menywod a dynion yng Nghymru. Rydym ni newydd glywed am y gender pay gap.

A ydych chi'n cytuno bod adroddiad 'Senedd Sy'n Gweithio i Gymru', sy'n argymell integreiddio cwota rhywedd i'r system etholiadol ar gyfer etholiadau nesaf y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, yn rhywbeth i fynd ar ei ôl o? Ac a ydych chi'n cytuno, os bydd y Cynulliad yn mabwysiadu dull STV, y dylai hi fod yn ofynnol drwy gyfraith i bob plaid gyflwyno hanner ei hymgeiswyr yn fenywod a'r hanner arall yn ddynion? 

It’s important to bear in mind exactly what happened in 1918, of course, when women were allowed to vote for the first time, but there was no equality with men at that time. Men were allowed to vote at 21, but women had to wait until they were 30 and had to own property. It took another 10 years before men and women were treated equally as voters. Of course, I’m sure you would agree that we are a long way from being in a situation of equality between men and women in Wales, and we’ve just heard about the gender pay gap.

Would you agree that the ‘A Parliament that Works for Wales’ report, which suggests introducing a gender quota for the electoral system for the next Assembly elections, is something that should be pursued? And do you agree that if the Assembly adopts a single transferrable vote approach then it should be a requirement in law for all parties to introduce 50 per cent women candidates and 50 per cent men?

14:10

Nid ydw i yn erbyn hynny mewn egwyddor o gwbl. Mae yna lot o bethau i'w trafod ynglŷn ag STV, er enghraifft, a'r ffordd o ethol Aelodau i'r lle hyn. Mae record—wel, edrychwch ar feinciau Llafur Cymru yma. Ond mae beth mae wedi ei ddweud, a ddylem ni ystyried neu ddadlau a ddylai fod yna gyfartaledd rhwng menywod a dynion yn y lle hwn, rwy'n credu bod hynny yn rhywbeth y dylem ni ei drafod er mwyn sicrhau bod y record da sydd wedi bod gyda ni dros y blynyddau yn parhau yn y pen draw. 

I’m not against that in principle at all. There is a great deal to be discussed on STV, for example, and the method of electing Members to this place. The record of Welsh Labour—you only need to look at the benches here. But what has been said about whether we should consider or argue for balance between the genders in this place, I believe that that’s something that we should discuss to ensure that the good record that we have had over the years continues.

Penderfyniad China i Wahardd Mewnforion Plastig
China’s Decision to Ban Imports of Plastic

5. Pa asesiad y mae'r Prif Weinidog wedi'i wneud o effaith penderfyniad China i wahardd mewnforion plastig ar Gymru? OAQ51528

5. What assessment has the First Minister made of the impact on Wales of China’s decision to ban imports of plastic? OAQ51528

I'd refer back to the answers I gave to the previous question, but I can say that our assessment is that Wales has a good bit of resilience to the ban because of our policies for high-quality recycling. In addition, we are working to get even higher quality and to increase the take-up of plastic recycling in Wales, so safeguarding businesses and creating jobs.

Cyfeiriaf yn ôl at yr atebion a roddais i'r cwestiwn blaenorol, ond gallaf ddweud mai ein hasesiad ni yw bod gan Gymru gryn dipyn o gydnerthedd yn erbyn y gwaharddiad oherwydd ein polisïau ar gyfer ailgylchu ansawdd uchel. Hefyd, rydym ni'n gweithio i gael ansawdd uwch fyth ac i gynyddu'r nifer sy'n ailgylchu plastig yng Nghymru, gan ddiogelu busnesau a chreu swyddi.

I thank the First Minister for that response. I'm sure the First Minister would agree that stopping the use of plastic to begin with is the key to cut down on any exports that were needed. Does he think that one of the ways possibly of doing this is to offer incentives to local authorities to bring back drinking fountains into use? Because, if you have widely available drinking fountains, that does take away the need for the plastic bottles of water that many people carry around. So, would he think that the widespread introduction of fountains would be a good way to move forward?

Diolchaf i'r Prif Weinidog am yr ymateb yna. Rwy'n siŵr y byddai'r Prif Weinidog yn cytuno bod atal y defnydd o blastig yn y lle cyntaf yn allweddol i leihau unrhyw allforion yr oedd eu hangen. A yw e'n credu mai un o'r ffyrdd o bosibl o wneud hyn yw cynnig cymhellion i awdurdodau lleol ddod â ffynhonnau dŵr yfed yn ôl i ddefnydd? Oherwydd, os oes gennych chi ffynhonnau dŵr yfed ar gael yn eang, mae hynny'n cael gwared ar yr angen am y poteli plastig o ddŵr y mae llawer o bobl yn eu cario o gwmpas. Felly, a yw'n credu y byddai cyflwyno ffynhonnau yn eang yn ffordd dda o symud ymlaen?

It's an interesting idea, I have to say. It's been a long time since there was a drinking fountain that operated in my hometown. In fact, I don't remember it operating, but it's still there in my hometown of Bridgend. I think a lot of people would use drinking fountains if they were there. It's not that long ago that the very idea of buying water in a plastic bottle would have seemed very strange to so many of us, when it came out of the tap. It wasn't until I lived in London in the late 1980s that I realised why people in London were drinking bottled water, given the quality of the water that was there, certainly at the time.

But I think that is an idea that's worth looking at. Whether there are any legal issues that arise as a result, I don't know. I can't see, sensibly, why there should be, but it is something that I will take up and write to the Member further on.

Mae'n syniad diddorol, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud. Bu amser maith ers pan oedd ffynnon yfed yn gweithio yn fy nhref enedigol i. A dweud y gwir, nid wyf yn ei chofio yn gweithio, ond mae'n dal i fod yno yn fy nhref enedigol, Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr. Rwy'n credu y byddai llawer o bobl yn defnyddio ffynhonnau pe bydden nhw yno. Nid yw'n amser maith mor faith â hynny yn ôl y byddai'r syniad o brynu dŵr mewn potel blastig wedi ymddangos yn rhyfedd iawn i lawer ohonom ni, pan oedd yn dod allan o'r tap. Nid tan i mi fyw yn Llundain ddiwedd y 1980au y sylweddolais pam roedd pobl yn Llundain yn yfed dŵr potel, o ystyried ansawdd y dŵr a oedd yno, yn sicr ar y pryd.

Ond rwy'n credu bod hwnnw'n syniad sy'n werth ei ystyried. Pa un a oes unrhyw faterion cyfreithiol sy'n codi o ganlyniad, wn i ddim. Ni allaf weld, yn synhwyrol, pam y dylai fod, ond mae'n rhywbeth y byddaf yn ymgymryd ag ef ac yn ysgrifennu at yr aelod ymhellach yn ei gylch.

Is the First Minister confident that the huge volumes of plastic that we have been exporting to China have been properly recycled, rather than, for instance, sent to landfill?

A yw'r Prif Weinidog yn ffyddiog bod y meintiau enfawr o blastig yr ydym ni wedi bod yn eu hallforio i Tsieina wedi cael eu hailgylchu'n briodol, yn hytrach nag, er enghraifft, cael eu hanfon i safleoedd tirlenwi?

Well, we know that we cannot keep on—. I mean, in terms of what happens in China, that's a matter ultimately for the Chinese, but they have made it very clear that they won't accept any more plastic. I think that, in the medium to long term, the Chinese ban could help to improve the quality of recyclable materials. It will encourage investment in recycling infrastructure here in Wales and could have a positive effect of the development of a circular economy.

The challenge now is there for businesses to see the opportunity that now presents itself, because it's no longer the case that there is a cheap alternative that makes it difficult for the business model to work. There is now an opportunity to recycle more in Wales and create more jobs in Wales.

Wel, rydym ni'n gwybod na allwn ni barhau—. Hynny yw, o ran yr hyn sy'n digwydd yn Tsieina, mater i'r Tsieineaid yw hynny yn y pen draw, ond maen nhw wedi ei gwneud yn eglur iawn na fyddan nhw'n derbyn mwy o blastig. Rwy'n credu, yn y tymor canolig i'r tymor hir, y gallai gwaharddiad y Tsieineaid helpu i wella ansawdd y deunyddiau ailgylchadwy. Bydd yn annog buddsoddiad mewn seilwaith ailgylchu yma yng Nghymru a gallai gael effaith gadarnhaol ar ddatblygiad economi gylchol.

Mae'r her yno nawr i fusnesau weld y cyfle sy'n cyflwyno ei hun nawr, oherwydd nid yw'n wir mwyach bod dewis amgen rhad sy'n ei gwneud yn anodd i'r model busnes weithio. Ceir cyfle nawr i ailgylchu mwy yng Nghymru a chreu mwy o swyddi yng Nghymru.

Dylai fod yn brofiad cenedlaethol, does bosib, nad ydym ni yn allforio ein gwastraff ac, yn benodol, nad ydym ni'n allforio gwastraff plastig. Ie, gostwng faint o blastig yr ydym yn ei ddefnyddio, fel yr oedd Julie Morgan yn awgrymu, ond, pan fo plastig yn cael ei ddefnyddio, gwneud yn siŵr ei fod yn cael ei ailddefnyddio cyn iddo hyd yn oed gael ei ailgylchu. Nawr, mae ailddefnyddio yn dibynnu ar system debyg i ryw fath o flaendal ar boteli, so rhyw fath o gynllun dychwelyd blaendal. Mae yna gytundeb rhwng ei blaid yntau a'm plaid innau ynglŷn ag edrych i mewn i hynny yn sgil y gyllideb. Pa fath o rôl y mae e'n ei gweld ar gyfer cytundeb o'r fath ac ar gyfer cynllyn o'r fath i wneud yn siŵr ein bod ni'n ailddefnyddio mwy o blastig?

It should be a national target, surely, that we shouldn’t be exporting our waste and, specifically, that we shouldn’t be exporting plastic waste. Yes, we should reduce our usage of plastics, as Julie Morgan suggested, but, when plastic is used, ensure that it is also reused even before it’s recycled. Now, reuse relies on a system of some sort of deposit-return scheme. There is agreement between his party and mine on looking into that in light of the budget. So, what sort of role does he see for such a proposal and such a plan in order to ensure that we reuse more plastics?

Dyna un peth, wrth gwrs, y bydd adroddiad y mis nesaf yn ei ystyried: ym mha ffordd y gallwn ni sicrhau bod mwy o blastig yn cael ei ailgylchu a'i ailddefnyddio, a hefyd, wrth gwrs, ym mha ffordd y gallwn ni sicrhau ein bod ni'n gallu hybu pobl i sicrhau eu bod nhw'n defnyddio llai o blastig. Y broblem sydd wastad wedi bod gyda ni, wrth gwrs, yw bod y rhan fwyaf o'r gwastraff—nid dim ond plastig, ond y rhan fwyaf o'r gwastraff—sy'n codi yng Nghymru yn dod o'r tu fas i Gymru. Nid ydym ni'n gallu dodi rheolau i mewn ynglŷn â fel y mae pethau yn cael eu lapio, ac rŷm ni wastad wedi gorfod delio â beth sy'n dod i mewn i Gymru. Ond nid yw hynny'n meddwl allwn ni ddim ystyried cynlluniau er mwyn lleihau'r plastig sydd ddim yn cael ei ailddefnyddio. Dyna beth fydd y rhaglen yn edrych arno, a dyna beth fydd yr adroddiad—rhan o'r adroddiad—yn edrych arno pan fydd yn cael ei gyhoeddi mis nesaf.

Well, that is one thing, of course, that the report next month will consider: in what way can we ensure that more plastic is reused and recycled, and also, of course, how can we ensure that people use less plastic. The problem that we have, of course, is that the majority of the waste—not just the plastic, but the majority of the waste—that’s generated in Wales comes from outwith Wales. We cannot put rules in place in terms of how things are wrapped, and we have to deal with what’s imported into Wales, but that doesn’t mean to say that we must not consider schemes to reduce the plastic that isn't recycled. That's what the programme will be looking at, and that's what the report—part of the report—will be looking at when it's published next month.

14:15
Blaenoriaethau ar gyfer Aberafan yn 2018
Priorities for Aberavon in 2018

6. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog amlinellu blaenoriaethau economaidd Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer Aberafan yn 2018? OAQ51509

6. Will the First Minister outline the Welsh Government's economic priorities for Aberavon in 2018? OAQ51509

Yes. Our economic priorities for all parts of Wales, including Aberavon, are set out in the 'Prosperity for All' economic action plan.

Gwnaf. Nodir ein blaenoriaethau economaidd ar gyfer pob rhan o Gymru, gan gynnwys Aberafan, yn y cynllun gweithredu economaidd, 'Ffyniant i Bawb'.

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. The Welsh Government obviously has the concept of enterprise zones as one of its important factors in local economic growth, but the only enterprise zone in South Wales West is actually in Port Talbot. It was created as a consequence of the uncertainty in steel making, and I appreciate the Welsh Government's investment with Tata, but there's still uncertainty over the future of the steelworks because of the joint venture, and we don't know the details of that joint venture yet. So, there's a need to keep that enterprise zone active and attractive to people.

Now, there appears to be little movement in the enterprise zone at this moment in time on inward investment and seeing jobs come in, but perhaps that could be down to the fact there's a prison coming to the enterprise zone. There's definitely uncertainty there because of that. Now, what we want is the Welsh Government to remove that uncertainty. It's easy, because all you have to do is say you're not going to sell the land to the Ministry of Justice and that uncertainty is removed, and businesses can be looking forward to that enterprise zone as an option. It's important that the industrial and commercial use of that land is for building the local economy and growth, and not for a prison.

Diolch i chi am yr ateb yna, Prif Weinidog. Mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn amlwg y cysyniad o ardaloedd menter fel un o'i ffactorau pwysig o ran twf economaidd lleol, ond mae'r unig ardal fenter yng Ngorllewin De Cymru ym Mhort Talbot mewn gwirionedd. Cafodd ei chreu o ganlyniad i'r ansicrwydd yn y maes cynhyrchu dur, ac rwy'n gwerthfawrogi buddsoddiad Llywodraeth Cymru gyda Tata, ond ceir ansicrwydd ynghylch dyfodol y gwaith dur o hyd oherwydd y fenter ar y cyd, ac nid ydym yn gwybod manylion y fenter ar y cyd honno eto. Felly, mae angen cadw'r ardal fenter honno'n weithredol ac yn ddeniadol i bobl.

Nawr, mae'n ymddangos mai ychydig iawn o symudiad sydd yn yr ardal fenter ar hyn o bryd o ran mewnfuddsoddi a gweld swyddi yn dod i mewn, ond efallai fod hynny oherwydd y ffaith fod carchar yn dod i'r ardal fenter. Mae'n bendant bod ansicrwydd yno oherwydd hynny. Nawr, yr hyn yr ydym ni eisiau yw i Lywodraeth Cymru gael gwared ar yr ansicrwydd hwnnw. Mae'n hawdd, oherwydd y cwbl y mae'n rhaid i chi ei wneud yw dweud nad ydych chi'n mynd i werthu'r tir i'r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder a bydd yr ansicrwydd hwnnw'n diflannu, a gall busnesau fod yn edrych ymlaen at yr ardal fenter honno fel dewis. Mae'n bwysig bod y defnydd diwydiannol a masnachol o'r tir hwnnw ar gyfer datblygu'r economi leol a thwf, ac nid ar gyfer carchar.

Well, I can say to the Member that I've received a response from the Ministry of Justice to a letter that I sent. The response is not satisfactory, to my mind, and so our position remains the same. We're not in a position to sell that land because the response is not satisfactory. I can say, in order to assist him, that in terms of Port Talbot, some 37 applications from Port Talbot Waterfront were awarded financial support to a total value of £676,000 to help them to offset the cost of business rates. We have secured enhanced capital allowances for three specific sites within the waterfront enterprise zone in order to boost investment and employment opportunities for the area, and those ECAs will be available in designated areas within Baglan energy park, Baglan industrial estate and Port Talbot docks. 

Wel, gallaf ddweud wrth yr Aelod fy mod i wedi derbyn ymateb gan y Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder i lythyr a anfonais. Nid yw'r ymateb yn foddhaol, yn fy marn i, ac felly mae ein safbwynt yn parhau yr un fath. Nid ydym ni mewn sefyllfa i werthu'r tir hwnnw, gan nad yw'r ymateb yn foddhaol. Gallaf ddweud, er mwyn ei gynorthwyo, o ran Port Talbot, y dyfarnwyd cymorth ariannol gwerth cyfanswm o £676,000 i tua 37 o geisiadau gan Lannau Port Talbot i'w helpu i fantoli cost ardrethi busnes. Rydym ni wedi sicrhau lwfansau cyfalaf uwch ar gyfer tri safle penodol yn ardal fenter y glannau er mwyn hybu cyfleoedd buddsoddi a chyflogi ar gyfer yr ardal, a bydd y lwfansau cyfalaf uwch hynny ar gael mewn ardaloedd penodedig ym Mharc Ynni Baglan, ystâd ddiwydiannol Baglan a dociau Port Talbot.

Rhoi Diwedd ar Ddigartrefedd
Ending Homelessness

7. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog amlinellu polisïau Llywodraeth Cymru i roi diwedd ar ddigartrefedd yng Nghymru? OAQ51527

7. Will the First Minister outline the Welsh Government's policies to end homelessness in Wales? OAQ51527

Yes. The Housing (Wales) Act 2014 has made a substantial and positive difference. There is still work to do. Our commitment to combatting homelessness is demonstrated by the priority given to it in 'Prosperity for All' and we've seen significant additional financial investment in terms of dealing with rough sleeping, with housing, with youth homelessness and mental health.

Gwnaf. Mae Deddf Tai (Cymru) 2014 wedi gwneud gwahaniaeth sylweddol a chadarnhaol. Mae gwaith i'w wneud o hyd. Dangosir ein hymrwymiad i frwydro digartrefedd gan y flaenoriaeth a roddir iddo yn 'Ffyniant i Bawb' ac rydym ni wedi gweld buddsoddiad ariannol ychwanegol sylweddol o ran ymdrin â chysgu ar y stryd, gyda thai, gyda digartrefedd ieuenctid ac iechyd meddwl.

Thank you. We noticed, as Assembly Members, that you made an announcement before Christmas of an extra £10 million into youth homelessness, with the intention to eradicate that in 10 years with £10 million. I was wondering if you could give us a bit more detail on that, because I did ask Llamau, who seem to be the only organisation involved in that announcement, what the detail was, and they couldn't give me any more detail. I also made the effort to contact other organisations in the homelessness sector who also had no idea as to what your intentions were. So, could you outline what they are, especially in the context of the fact that there is already a 10-year programme in place that was worked upon with Plaid Cymru as part of the One Wales Government? Of course, we're not going to shun the announcement of £10 million, but we want to know who will be able to apply for those contracts, if it is going to go to general public contract, and how we can scrutinise that money—because of course 10 years is a long way away, and we would hope that by now we could have actually eradicated youth homelessness.

Diolch. Rydym ni wedi sylwi, fel Aelodau Cynulliad, eich bod chi wedi gwneud cyhoeddiad cyn y Nadolig o £10 miliwn ychwanegol i ddigartrefedd ieuenctid, gyda'r bwriad o ddileu hynny mewn 10 mlynedd gyda £10 miliwn. Roeddwn i'n meddwl tybed a allech chi roi ychydig mwy o fanylion am hynny, oherwydd fe ofynnais i Llamau, y mae'n ymddangos yw'r unig sefydliad sy'n gysylltiedig â'r cyhoeddiad hwnnw, beth oedd y manylion, ac ni allen nhw roi mwy o fanylion i mi. Fe wnes i ymdrech hefyd i gysylltu â sefydliadau eraill yn y sector digartrefedd ac nid oedd ganddyn nhw unrhyw syniad beth oedd eich bwriad ychwaith. Felly, a wnewch chi amlinellu beth ydyn nhw, yn enwedig yng nghyd-destun y ffaith fod rhaglen 10 mlynedd ar waith eisoes, y gweithiwyd arni gyda Phlaid Cymru yn rhan o Lywodraeth Cymru'n Un? Wrth gwrs, nid ydym ni'n mynd i droi ein cefnau ar y cyhoeddiad o £10 miliwn, ond rydym ni eisiau gwybod pwy fydd yn gallu gwneud cais am y contractau hynny, os yw'n mynd i fynd i gontract cyhoeddus cyffredinol, a sut y gallwn ni graffu ar yr arian hwnnw—oherwydd mae 10 mlynedd yn bell i ffwrdd, wrth gwrs, a byddem yn gobeithio y byddem ni mewn gwirionedd wedi gallu dileu digartrefedd ymhlith pobl ifanc erbyn hyn.

First of all, 10 years seems a long time, but it's what the sector tells us is realistic in terms of ending youth homelessness. As far as the money is concerned, it will be available to any organisation that is able to meet the right criteria in order to help to ensure that homelessness is eradicated. But I went to Llamau before Christmas, I spoke to young people particularly who had been helped by Llamau. Llamau is one organisation amongst many, of course, and it was encouraging to see the work that they had been doing and the work that they do. But we want to work with those now in the sector to make sure that that money is put to best use with the shared intention of ending youth homelessness in Wales. 

Yn gyntaf oll, mae 10 mlynedd yn ymddangos yn amser hir, ond dyna mae'r sector yn ei ddweud wrthym sy'n realistig o ran rhoi terfyn ar ddigartrefedd ymhlith pobl ifanc. Cyn belled ag y mae'r arian yn y cwestiwn, bydd ar gael i unrhyw sefydliad sy'n gallu bodloni'r meini prawf cywir er mwyn helpu i sicrhau bod digartrefedd yn cael ei ddileu. Ond fe es i Llamau cyn y Nadolig, siaradais â phobl ifanc a oedd wedi cael eu helpu gan Llamau yn benodol. Un sefydliad ymhlith llawer yw Llamau, wrth gwrs, ac roedd yn galonogol gweld y gwaith y maen nhw wedi bod yn ei wneud a'r gwaith y maen nhw yn ei wneud. Ond rydym ni eisiau gweithio gyda'r rhai sydd yn y sector nawr i wneud yn siŵr bod yr arian hwnnw yn cael ei ddefnyddio yn y ffordd orau gyda'r bwriad a rennir o roi terfyn ar ddigartrefedd ymhlith pobl ifanc yng Nghymru.

Adeiladu Tai Awdurdodau Lleol
Local Authority House-building

8. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am adeiladu tai awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru? OAQ51530

8. Will the First Minister make a statement on local authority house-building in Wales? OAQ51530

Yes. House building in Wales is a key priority for the Government. Local authorities are expecting to build 1,000 new council homes towards our target of 20,000 affordable homes. We're also protecting existing social housing stock by ending the right to buy.

Gwnaf. Mae adeiladu tai yng Nghymru yn flaenoriaeth allweddol i'r Llywodraeth. Mae awdurdodau lleol yn disgwyl adeiladu 1,000 o gartrefi cyngor newydd tuag at ein targed o 20,000 o gartrefi fforddiadwy. Rydym ni hefyd yn gwarchod y stoc tai cymdeithasol presennol trwy roi terfyn ar yr hawl i brynu.

First Minister, I've said from this side of the house that we would support the move to local authorities building social housing once more if that was thought to be a strategic way of improving the level of house building. Just 16 homes were completed last year in the local authority sector, 13 of those in one authority, Flintshire. So, if they are going to become major builders, they will need to improve their capacities and skills in this area, and that needs to be considered now, because we face a 15 or 20-year crisis if we don't start building many, many more homes.

Prif Weinidog, rwyf i wedi dweud o'r ochr hon i'r tŷ y byddem ni'n cefnogi'r symudiad i awdurdodau lleol yn adeiladu tai cymdeithasol unwaith yn rhagor pe ystyrid bod honno'n ffordd strategol o wella'r lefel o adeiladu tai. Dim ond 16 o gartrefi gafodd eu cwblhau yn y sector awdurdod lleol y llynedd, 13 o'r rheini mewn un awdurdod, sir y Fflint. Felly, os ydyn nhw'n mynd i ddod yn adeiladwyr mawr, bydd angen iddyn nhw wella eu galluoedd a'u sgiliau yn y maes hwn, ac mae angen ystyried hynny nawr, gan ein bod ni'n wynebu argyfwng dros 15 neu 20 mlynedd os na fyddwn ni'n dechrau adeiladu llawer iawn mwy o gartrefi.

14:20

Of course council housing is something that we want to encourage, and we've done that financially. It doesn't mean that they can plug all the gap themselves, but it's hugely important that they're able to make provision in their local area. I was with the Member for Swansea East, Mike Hedges, recently, and I saw for myself the good work of Swansea council in the Mynydd Newydd area of his constituency. Cardiff council are developing 543 affordable new homes under their housing partnership programme. I know that Ynys Môn plan to build 198 new council homes over the next five years. Flintshire is moving forward with developing 200 new council homes, and Carmarthenshire—just to make sure that everybody knows I'm not picking on certain councils run by certain parties—through their affordable homes delivery plan do intend to provide over 60 new council homes over the next two years, in addition, of course, to the work that's being done in Swansea.

Wrth gwrs, mae tai cyngor yn rhywbeth yr ydym ni eisiau eu hannog, ac rydym ni wedi gwneud hynny yn ariannol. Nid yw'n golygu y gallan nhw ddatrys yr holl broblemau i gyd ar eu pen eu hunain, ond mae'n hynod bwysig eu bod nhw'n gallu darparu yn eu hardal leol. Roeddwn i gyda'r Aelod dros Ddwyrain Abertawe, Mike Hedges, yn ddiweddar, a gwelais drosof fy hun y gwaith da y mae cyngor Abertawe yn ei wneud yn ardal Mynydd Newydd yn ei etholaeth. Mae Cyngor Caerdydd yn datblygu 543 o gartrefi newydd fforddiadwy yn rhan o'i raglen partneriaeth tai. Gwn fod Ynys Môn yn bwriadu adeiladu 198 o gartrefi cyngor newydd yn ystod y pum mlynedd nesaf. Mae sir y Fflint yn gwneud cynnydd gyda'r broses o ddatblygu 200 o gartrefi cyngor newydd, ac mae sir Gaerfyrddin—hoffwn i wneud yn siŵr fod pawb yn gwybod nad wyf i'n dewis cynghorau penodol sydd o dan reolaeth pleidiau penodol—drwy ei gynllun cyflenwi tai fforddiadwy yn bwriadu darparu dros 60 o dai cyngor newydd yn ystod y ddwy flynedd nesaf, yn ogystal, wrth gwrs, â'r gwaith hwnnw sy'n cael ei gyflawni yn Abertawe.

2. Datganiad a Chyhoeddiad Busnes
2. Business Statement and Announcement

Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r datganiad a chyhoeddiad busnes, ac rwy'n galw ar Julie James i wneud y datganiad.

The next item, therefore, is the business statement and announcement, and I call on Julie James to make the statement.

Diolch, Llywydd. There are three changes to this week's business. The Minister for Children and Social Care will make a statement shortly on the consultation on legislation to remove the defence of reasonable punishment, directly after this business statement. This will be followed by a statement by the Counsel General on the Welsh Government prosecution code, and finally, the time allocated to the Counsel General's OAQs tomorrow has been reduced. Business for the next three weeks is shown on the business statement and announcement found amongst the meeting papers that are available to Members electronically.

Diolch, Llywydd. Mae yna dri newid i waith yr wythnos hon. Bydd y Gweinidog Plant a Gofal Cymdeithasol yn gwneud datganiad yn fuan ynglŷn â'r ymgynghoriad ar y ddeddfwriaeth i ddileu'r amddiffyniad o gosb resymol, yn syth ar ôl y datganiad busnes hwn. Dilynir hyn gan ddatganiad gan y Cwnsler Cyffredinol ar god erlyn Llywodraeth Cymru, ac yn olaf, bydd llai o amser yn cael ei neilltuo yfory ar gyfer Cwestiynau Llafar y Cynulliad i'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol. Mae gwaith y tair wythnos nesaf i'w weld ar y datganiad a'r cyhoeddiad busnes sydd ymhlith y papurau cyfarfod sydd ar gael i Aelodau ar ffurf electronig.

Leader of the house, is it possible to have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for transport in relation to the northern access road in the Vale of Glamorgan, coming from the St Athan enterprise park? Today, Members who represent that particular area have had an e-mail from residents of the residential park on Millands road—Millands caravan park—who have highlighted how the road is going to be stopped up during the development of the northern access road. This is going to hinder the access to the site for 40 residents. There doesn't seem to be—and that's why I'm asking for the statement—there doesn't seem to have been much dialogue or consultation with the residents over what alternatives might be put in place, and as has been highlighted to me, the residents of the site do depend on all sorts of vehicles for access, from refuse collection to just the general grind of daily life such as the post et cetera coming there. I'd welcome a statement so that we can have clarity and that we can give assurances to the residents there that options have been looked at and solutions will be put in place.

Arweinydd y Tŷ, a oes modd cael datganiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros drafnidiaeth ynglŷn â'r ffordd fynediad ogleddol ym Mro Morgannwg, sy'n dod o Barc Menter Sain Tathan? Heddiw, cafodd Aelodau sy'n cynrychioli'r ardal benodol honno e-bost oddi wrth drigolion y parc preswyl ar Millands road—parc carafanau Millands—sydd wedi amlygu sut y bydd tagfeydd ar y ffordd honno yn ystod datblygiad y ffordd fynediad ogleddol. Mae hyn yn mynd i'w gwneud hi'n anodd i 40 o breswylwyr gael mynediad at y safle. Nid yw'n ymddangos bod—a dyna pam rwy'n gofyn am y datganiad—nid yw'n ymddangos y bu llawer o drafod neu ymgynghori â thrigolion ynghylch pa ddewisiadau amgen allai fod ar gael, ac fel y pwysleisiwyd i mi, mae preswylwyr y safle yn dibynnu ar bob math o gerbydau yn cael mynediad, gan gynnwys casglu sbwriel ac ar gyfer gwaith cyffredinol bywyd bob dydd er enghraifft fel y post ac ati yn cyrraedd y safle. Byddwn yn croesawu datganiad fel y gallwn ni gael eglurder ac er mwyn i ni roi sicrwydd i'r trigolion yno, bod dewisiadau wedi cael eu hystyried ac y caiff datrysiadau eu rhoi ar waith.

Thank you for that question. The Cabinet Secretary is indicating to me that he will ensure that officials liaise properly with both the Member and the residents to ensure the situation is resolved satisfactorily.

Diolch ichi am y cwestiwn yna. Mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn dangos i mi y bydd yn sicrhau y bydd swyddogion yn trafod yn briodol gyda'r Aelod a chyda'r trigolion i sicrhau bod y sefyllfa yn cael ei datrys yn foddhaol.

I wondered whether we could have a statement from the environment Secretary with regard to classifications of floodplains in Wales. People will be aware that last week, and over the Christmas period, really, there's been much more drainage problems in the Baglan Moors area, which is the area where the prison is being proposed to be built. Drainforce has been out in force there. Residents have been sending me pictures of those issues, and we just wondered whether we could have a statement from the environment Secretary so that we can understand some of those problems from the perspective of the environment agency here in Wales and so that residents can raise those concerns with them.

My second question is: I was promised a response with regard to the situation of the Action for Children playgroup in Neath Port Talbot Hospital. I did receive something, but it was recalled from the children's Minister. I'm asking again today because those who have been affected have been told by Neath Port Talbot council that they were consulted by Aled Evans, the officer in charge, but many of the parents have told me that they weren't consulted over the changes. So, I would like for the Government to give an urgent response so that I can go back to those parents who are currently quite anxious, as they were before Christmas, to try and come to an understanding as to what will happen in the future. Thanks.

Tybed a allwn ni gael datganiad gan Ysgrifennydd yr amgylchedd ynglŷn â dosbarthu gorlifdiroedd yng Nghymru. Bydd pobl yn ymwybodol, yr wythnos diwethaf, a thros gyfnod y Nadolig, mewn gwirionedd, bu llawer mwy o broblemau draenio yn ardal Baglan Moors, sef yr ardal sy'n cael ei chynnig ar gyfer adeiladu'r carchar. Mae llu o weithwyr Drainforce wedi bod yno. Mae trigolion wedi anfon lluniau o'r problemau hynny ataf, ac roeddem ni'n meddwl tybed a allem ni gael datganiad gan Ysgrifennydd yr amgylchedd fel y gallwn ni ddeall rhai o'r problemau hynny o safbwynt asiantaeth yr amgylchedd yma yng Nghymru, ac fel y gall trigolion sôn wrthyn nhw am y pryderon.

Fy ail gwestiwn yw: cefais addewid y byddwn i'n cael ymateb ynghylch sefyllfa cylch chwarae Gweithredu dros Blant yn Ysbyty Castell-nedd Port Talbot. Fe wnes i gael rhywbeth, ond fe gafodd ei alw yn ôl gan y Gweinidog plant. Rwy'n gofyn eto heddiw oherwydd dywedodd Cyngor Castell-nedd Port Talbot wrth y rhai hynny sydd wedi eu heffeithio, bod Aled Evans, y swyddog rheoli, wedi ymgynghori â nhw, ond mae nifer o'r rhieni wedi dweud wrthyf na ymgynghorwyd â nhw ynghylch y newidiadau. Felly, hoffwn i'r Llywodraeth ymateb ar fyrder fel y gallaf roi ateb i'r rhieni hynny sy'n eithaf pryderus ar hyn o bryd, fel yr oeddent cyn y Nadolig, i geisio dod i ddealltwriaeth ynglŷn â beth fydd yn digwydd yn y dyfodol. Diolch.

On that second one, the Minister is indicating to me that it should be with them today. So, hopefully, that will be resolved very shortly. In terms of the flooding statement, I'm sure the Minister responsible will be bringing forward a statement on the general arrangements for flooding and its review after the winter period, which is normal when we look at it. If the Member has specific issues about a very specific area, I would suggest she writes to the Minister and gets a very specific response.

O ran yr ail gwestiwn, mae'r Gweinidog yn awgrymu i mi y dylen nhw gael yr ateb heddiw. Felly, gobeithio, caiff hynny ei ddatrys cyn bo hir. O ran y datganiad am y llifogydd, rwy'n siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog sy'n gyfrifol yn cyflwyno datganiad ynghylch y trefniadau cyffredinol ar gyfer llifogydd ac yn eu hadolygu ar ôl cyfnod y gaeaf, sy'n arferol pan fyddwn yn ystyried y mater hwn. Os oes gan yr Aelod broblemau penodol am ardal benodol, rwy'n awgrymu y dylai hi ysgrifennu at y Gweinidog a chael ymateb penodol iawn.

Twelve months ago, I had a short debate on the alleged sexual abuse of young boys in Llandrindod Wells school for the deaf. This happened in the 1950s and a constituent of mine, Cedric Moon, brought it to my attention. We've now reached the stage where one of the victims has been awarded legal aid and a letter has gone to Rhondda Cynon Taf—the successor authority—seeking compensation for the sexual abuse suffered. That's gone in the last few weeks. Can I ask for a statement from the Welsh Government about how these sorts of injustices are righted and about any ways there could be to minimise the legal costs and the stress for people who are now older, who are vulnerable, and who wish to make claims going back decades—or may not wish to make a claim, may just wish for an acknowledgement or an apology?

Ddeuddeg mis yn ôl, cefais ddadl fer ar yr achosion honedig o gam-drin bechgyn ifanc yn rhywiol yn ysgol Llandrindod ar gyfer pobl fyddar. Digwyddodd hyn yn yr 1950au a dygodd un o'm hetholwyr, Cedric Moon, yr achos i'm sylw. Rydym ni bellach wedi cyrraedd y cam lle mae un o'r dioddefwyr wedi derbyn cymorth cyfreithiol ac mae llythyr wedi ei anfon at Rondda Cynon Taf—yr awdurdod olynol—yn ceisio iawndal am y cam-drin rhywiol a ddioddefwyd. Anfonwyd hynny yn ystod yr ychydig wythnosau diwethaf. A gaf i ofyn am ddatganiad gan Lywodraeth Cymru ynghylch sut y mae'r math hwn o anghyfiawnder yn cael ei unioni ac a oes yna unrhyw ffordd o leihau'r costau cyfreithiol a'r straen ar bobl sydd yn hŷn erbyn hyn, sy'n agored i niwed, ac sy'n dymuno gwneud honiadau sy'n dyddio'n ôl ddegawdau—neu efallai ar gyfer y rhai nad ydyn nhw eisiau gwneud hawliad, ond efallai eu bod nhw'n dymuno cael cydnabyddiaeth neu ymddiheuriad?

14:25

The Member raises a hugely important point, and I know in her short debate the issues arising from the book and so on were very comprehensively gone through. I think the Cabinet Secretary at the time, the late Carl Sargeant, went through all of the actions at that time that we'd taken, both to learn from past abuse and to act to ensure we prevent similar mistakes reoccurring. I think it's enough to say that we're continuing to be vigilant and putting listening to children at the heart of our policy, practice and guidance. We're determined that children should have a voice. Even if they are adults now, they should have the voice that they should have had when they were children at the time. We want to continue to emphasise that the duty to report children at risk and the duty to report adults at risk are intended to ensure that any safeguarding concerns about children or adults are reported and properly investigated.

I understand that one of her constituents has legal aid to take the matter forward and I'm very pleased to hear that. That's to take the matter forward against a successor authority. So, there are legal arrangements in place to make sure that an authority continues to hold the legal responsibility for the things that have happened in the past. I think she raises an important point: it's not for us to comment on individual cases, but it is something that we can look at when we look at general access-to-justice issues across the piece in Wales, which have been considerably undermined by the Tory cuts to legal aid and the access-to-justice issues that we're all aware of. I think it would be really interesting to talk to the Member outside of the Chamber about some of the issues specifically raised and see if there are very specific things we ought to put in place to ensure that people do get the very best advice when taking these things forward.

Mae'r Aelod yn codi pwynt hynod o bwysig, ac rwy'n gwybod y cafodd y materion sy'n codi yn y llyfr ac ati, eu trafod yn drylwyr yn ei dadl fer. Rwy'n credu bod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ar y pryd, y diweddar Carl Sargeant, wedi edrych ar bopeth a wnaethom ni ar yr adeg honno, i ddysgu o'r cam-drin yn y gorffennol ac i weithredu i sicrhau ein bod yn atal camgymeriadau tebyg rhag digwydd eto. Credaf mai digon yw dweud ein bod ni'n parhau i fod yn wyliadwrus a bod gwrando ar blant yn cael ei roi wrth wraidd ein polisïau, ein harferion a'n canllawiau. Rydym ni'n benderfynol y dylai plant gael llais. Hyd yn oed os ydyn nhw'n oedolion erbyn hyn, dylen nhw gael y llais y dylen nhw fod wedi ei gael pan oedden nhw'n blant ar y pryd. Rydym ni'n dal i fod eisiau pwysleisio mai diben y ddyletswydd i roi gwybod am blant sydd mewn perygl a'r ddyletswydd i roi gwybod am oedolion sydd mewn perygl yw sicrhau bod unrhyw bryderon am blant neu oedolion yn cael eu lleisio a'u hymchwilio'n gywir.

Rwy'n deall bod un o'i hetholwyr wedi cael cymorth cyfreithiol i weithredu ar y mater, ac rwy'n falch iawn o glywed hynny. Mae hynny er mwyn dwyn achos yn erbyn yr awdurdod olynol. Felly, mae yna drefniadau cyfreithiol ar waith i sicrhau bod yr awdurdod yn parhau i fod yn gyfrifol yn gyfreithiol am y pethau sydd wedi digwydd yn y gorffennol. Yn fy marn i, mae hi'n codi pwynt pwysig: nid mater i ni yw gwneud sylwadau ar achosion unigol, ond mae'n rhywbeth y gallwn ni edrych arno wrth i ni edrych ar faterion cyffredinol ledled Cymru o ran sicrhau cyfiawnder, sydd wedi eu tanseilio'n sylweddol gan doriadau'r Torïaid i gymorth cyfreithiol, a'r materion  hynny o ran sicrhau cyfiawnder yr ydym ni i gyd yn ymwybodol ohonynt. Rwy'n credu y byddai'n ddiddorol iawn cael trafodaeth gyda'r Aelod y tu allan i'r Siambr ynglŷn â rhai o'r materion a godwyd yn benodol, a gweld a oes yna unrhyw beth penodol y dylem ni ei wneud i sicrhau bod pobl yn cael y cyngor gorau posib ynglŷn â materion o'r fath yn y dyfodol. 

Diolch, Llywydd, a blwyddyn newydd dda. Can I call for two statements, please? First, at the beginning of the Christmas recess, Members received a written statement on transport vision for north Wales, and I call for an oral statement so that we may further question the Cabinet Secretary to fill out some of the gaps that, clearly, a written statement alone cannot address. Particularly, it refers to the north-east, and says there'll be further announcements in the new year regarding north-west Wales. It refers to cross-border issues, Northern Powerhouse links and so on. The growth deal bid for north Wales was submitted a matter of days later and we know that negotiations with both the governments will be commencing early this year, focused, to a large extent, on transport issues in north Wales. So, it would be helpful, in that context and the context of the rail franchise as it moves forward, and its impact on Wrexham-Bidston and other links referred to in the statement, if we could have an opportunity to question the Minister on an oral statement accordingly.

My second and final statement relates to Scouts in Flintshire. Now, you might have seen in the last week widespread coverage of Bear Grylls's support, as the chief Scout in the UK, of the petition in Flintshire, which by then had gathered 7,700 signatures, against Flintshire council's unique proposal so far amongst councils in Wales to remove discretionary rate relief from Scouts where they have their own headquarter buildings. This will affect up to 16 Scouting groups in Flintshire, but only raise for the council somewhere around, at a maximum, £6,000 a year, at high cost given the social benefits that the Scouting groups are delivering in the communities in which they work. Now, you might state that this is a matter for the council's budget, but the potential precedent this could set across Wales is concerning more widely. I therefore call for a statement on that matter also. Thank you.

Diolch, Llywydd, a blwyddyn newydd dda. A gaf i ofyn am ddau ddatganiad, os gwelwch yn dda? Yn gyntaf, ar ddechrau gwyliau'r Nadolig, cafodd yr Aelodau ddatganiad ysgrifenedig ynglŷn â'r weledigaeth ar gyfer trafnidiaeth yn y gogledd, a galwaf am ddatganiad llafar fel y gallwn ni ofyn mwy o gwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, er mwyn rhoi sylw i rai o'r materion hynny nad yw datganiad ysgrifenedig yn unig, yn amlwg, yn gallu mynd i'r afael â nhw. Mae'n cyfeirio, yn enwedig, at y gogledd-ddwyrain, ac yn dweud y cawn ni fwy o gyhoeddiadau ynghylch y gogledd-orllewin yn y flwyddyn newydd. Mae'n cyfeirio at faterion trawsffiniol, y cysylltiadau â Phwerdy Gogledd Lloegr ac ati. Cyflwynwyd y cais bargen twf ar gyfer gogledd Cymru ychydig ddyddiau'n ddiweddarach, ac rydym ni'n gwybod y bydd trafodaethau â'r ddwy Lywodraeth yn dechrau yn gynnar eleni, ac yn canolbwyntio, i raddau helaeth, ar y problemau trafnidiaeth yn y gogledd. Felly, byddai'n ddefnyddiol, yn y cyd-destun hwnnw a chyd-destun y fasnachfraint reilffyrdd wrth iddi ddatblygu, ac effaith hynny ar Wrecsam-Bidston ac ar gysylltiadau eraill y cyfeirir atyn nhw yn y datganiad, pe gallem ni gael cyfle i holi'r Gweinidog ynglŷn â datganiad llafar yn unol â hynny.

Mae fy ail ddatganiad a'r olaf, yn ymwneud â'r Sgowtiaid yn sir y Fflint. Nawr, efallai y gwelsoch chi'r sylw mawr a gafodd cefnogaeth Bear Gryll, y prif Sgowt yn y DU, i'r ddeiseb yn sir y Fflint, a oedd wedi casglu 7,700 o lofnodion erbyn hynny, yn gwrthwynebu cynnig unigryw Cyngor Sir y Fflint hyd yma ymysg cynghorau, i ddiddymu'r rhyddhad ardrethi y dewisiwyd ei roi i'r sgowtiaid, os oes ganddyn nhw bencadlysoedd eu hunain. Bydd hyn yn effeithio ar hyd at 16 o grwpiau Sgowtio yn sir y Fflint, ond dim ond yn codi uchafswm o tua £6,000 y flwyddyn ar gyfer y Cyngor, a hynny ar gost fawr gan gofio'r manteision cymdeithasol y mae grwpiau Sgowtiaid yn eu cynnig i'r cymunedau y maen nhw'n gweithio ynddynt. Nawr, efallai y byddwch chi'n datgan bod hwn yn fater ar gyfer cyllideb y Cyngor, ond mae'r cynsail y gallai hyn ei osod ledled Cymru yn peri pryder mwy eang. Felly rwy'n gofyn am ddatganiad ynglŷn â'r mater hwnnw hefyd. Diolch.

In terms of the first request for an oral statement to follow the written statement, the Member, of course, will have plenty of opportunity to question the Cabinet Secretary during his oral Assembly questions, which will be occurring later this month. But I understand that he's also making an oral statement generally on transport later this month, which will afford an opportunity for the Member to closely question him on the matters contained therein. 

In terms of the Scouts decision in Flintshire, the Member is entirely right—it is a matter for the local authority. And whilst I understand the Member's understandable concerns about some of these decisions, it is a discretionary decision, and the whole point about a discretion is that it's exercised locally by local politicians who are seized of the matter. I will say that it is a really sad reflection of the continuing austerity theme that the Government imposes on all of us that these very cherished local organisations are struggling for money in this way. 

O ran y cais cyntaf am ddatganiad llafar i ddilyn y datganiad ysgrifenedig, caiff yr Aelod, wrth gwrs, ddigon o gyfle i holi Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn ystod cwestiynau Llafar y Cynulliad, a fydd yn digwydd yn ddiweddarach y mis hwn. Ond deallaf y bydd hefyd yn gwneud datganiad llafar yn gyffredinol ynglŷn â thrafnidiaeth yn ddiweddarach y mis hwn, a bydd yn rhoi cyfle i'r Aelod ei holi'n fanwl ynglŷn â'r materion a gynhwysir ynddo.

O ran y penderfyniad ynglŷn â'r Sgowtiaid yn sir y Fflint, mae'r Aelod yn hollol gywir—mae'n fater i'r awdurdod lleol. Ac er fy mod i'n deall pryderon rhesymol yr Aelod ynghylch rhai o'r penderfyniadau hyn, mae'n benderfyniad dewisol, a holl bwrpas cael dewis yw y gall gwleidyddion lleol sy'n ymdrin â'r mater ddefnyddio'r dewis hwnnw. Dywedaf ei bod hi'n adlewyrchiad trist iawn o'r cynni parhaus y mae'r Llywodraeth yn ei osod ar bob un ohonom ni, bod y sefydliadau lleol annwyl iawn hyn yn brwydro am arian yn y modd hwn.

14:30

If I can say, we've been on recess for three weeks, so I think I've got one a week to raise with the business manager, if I can just about do that. First of all, can I ask for a debate in Government time on what we've just been discussing in questions, which is around the condition of the NHS at the moment in Wales, accepting there are a lot of winter pressures there? But my particular concern is to explore some of the issues around GP recruitment and retention, because there are serious problems now in many GP surgeries throughout the region I represent—the latest example being Abersoch losing a GP, and patients there being allocated to Botwnnog, which on a map doesn't look very far, but it can actually take an hour and 50 minutes by bus, incredibly, just to do those few miles. This is a real problem. I do agree with some of the comments that have been made earlier that the lack of thoroughly reliable and standardised access to GP primary services throughout Wales is driving more people to go to A&E and is putting more pressure on that. So, I think a debate rather than a statement would be good in Government time, so that we can explore some of these issues and challenge Government, as we need to do, on training, and on the lack, as we've seen in the figures that have come out in the last couple of days, of Welsh domiciled medical students accessing our own training facilities here in Wales. And, of course, Plaid Cymru will make the argument for a third training facility in north Wales at that time. 

The second thing I'd like to ask from the business manager relates to her own Government responsibilities as well, which of course, is broadband. As she will know, the current programme—well, it's no longer the current programme—came to an end at the end of the year, and I did have a bet with myself how long it would be before I got the first letter saying, 'We were promised by the end of 2017 and it hasn't happened', and it came over the weekend. And I think that will be the first of many, and I'm sure she accepts that it will be the first of many. So, I think an updated oral statement is what I would like to ask for from her about what has been achieved under the previous scheme by the end of 2017—how much did Openreach actually achieve and do in accordance with what they set out to do? Anecdotally, I've got many examples of where they haven't delivered, but I'd like to know the facts from her. She mentioned, in correspondence with me in the past, that there would be financial penalties if they hadn't delivered, so I'd like to explore that with her, and, of course, she's stated an £80 million new fund, which she says is open to innovative solutions as well, and I'd like to understand how that can be applied to those communities in my region that have not been high-speed broadband enabled over the last couple of years. So, an oral statement would be very welcome from the business manager with her Cabinet Secretary policy hat on. 

And the final update I'd like to request from the Government is one from the Cabinet Secretary for rural affairs on where we are with circus and wild animals here in Wales. We've had a proposal for the licensing of wild animals in circuses and other animal exhibits. I do draw a differential myself between wild animals and circuses and occasional animal exhibitions and exhibits that you do see in rural Wales. And, of course, the Westminster Government and Michael Gove are talking once again about banning wild animals in circuses. I wouldn't want Wales to become a haven of circuses that happen to have wild animals, performing wild animals—you know, not ones that are generally domiciled and domesticated in that sense. So, perhaps this is an opportunity for the Government to be more forceful in its approach, and again, an update from the Cabinet Secretary, by means of a statement, would be, I think welcomed by many Members in the Chamber. 

Os caf i ddweud, buom ar wyliau am dair wythnos, felly rwy'n credu bod gen i un cwestiwn am bob wythnos i ofyn i'r rheolwr busnes, os caf i wneud hynny. Yn gyntaf, a gaf i ofyn am ddadl yn amser y Llywodraeth ynglŷn â'r hyn yr ydym ni newydd ei drafod yn ystod y cwestiynau, sy'n ymwneud â chyflwr y GIG ar hyn o bryd yng Nghymru, gan gydnabod bod llawer o bwysau ar y gwasanaeth yn ystod y gaeaf? Ond fy mhryder penodol i yw archwilio rhai o'r problemau sy'n ymwneud â recriwtio a chadw meddygon teulu, oherwydd mae problemau difrifol erbyn hyn mewn nifer o feddygfeydd teulu ledled y rhanbarth yr wyf i'n ei chynrychioli—yr enghraifft ddiweddaraf yw Abersoch yn colli meddyg teulu, a'r cleifion yno yn cael eu hailgyfeirio i Fotwnnog. Ar y map, nid yw'n edrych yn bell iawn, ond gall mewn gwirionedd gymryd awr a 50 munud ar y bws, yn rhyfeddol, dim ond i deithio'r ychydig filltiroedd hynny. Mae hon yn broblem wirioneddol. Rwy'n cytuno â rhai o'r sylwadau a wnaed yn gynharach, bod diffyg argaeledd gwasanaethau sylfaenol meddygon teulu hollol ddibynadwy a safonedig ledled Cymru yn annog mwy o bobl i fynd i'r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys ac yn rhoi mwy o bwysau ar honno. Felly, rwy'n credu y byddai dadl yn hytrach na datganiad yn dda yn amser y Llywodraeth, fel y gallwn ni archwilio rhai o'r materion hyn, a herio'r Llywodraeth, fel y mae angen inni ei wneud, ynglŷn â hyfforddiant, ac, fel yr ydym ni wedi gweld yn y ffigurau a ryddhawyd yn ystod y diwrnodau diwethaf, ar y diffyg myfyrwyr meddygol sy'n hanu o Gymru sy'n astudio yn ein cyfleusterau hyfforddi ein hunain yma yng Nghymru. Ac, wrth gwrs, bydd Plaid Cymru yn dadlau dros yr achos am drydydd cyfleuster hyfforddi yn y gogledd  ar yr un pryd.

Mae'r ail beth yr hoffwn i ofyn amdano oddi wrth y rheolwr busnes yn ymwneud â chyfrifoldebau ei Llywodraeth ei hun hefyd, sef wrth gwrs, band eang. Fel y bydd hi'n gwybod, daeth ei rhaglen bresennol—wel, nid yw hi bellach yw'r rhaglen bresennol—i ben ar ddiwedd y flwyddyn, ac fe wnes i fet gyda fy hun ynghylch pa mor hir fyddai hi cyn y byddwn i'n cael y llythyr cyntaf sy'n dweud, 'Addawyd inni erbyn diwedd 2017, ac nid yw hynny wedi digwydd', a daeth y llythyr hwn yn ystod y penwythnos. Ac rwy'n credu mai'r llythyr hwnnw fydd y cyntaf ymysg nifer, ac rwy'n siŵr ei bod hi'n derbyn mai hwnnw fydd y cyntaf ymysg nifer. Felly, rwy'n credu yr hoffwn i ofyn am ddatganiad llafar wedi'i ddiweddaru ganddi am yr hyn a gyflawnwyd yn rhan o'r cynllun blaenorol erbyn diwedd 2017—faint oedd Openreach mewn gwirionedd wedi'i gyflawni a'i wneud, yn unol â'r hyn yr oedden nhw'n bwriadu ei wneud? Mae gen i nifer o enghreifftiau answyddogol o amcanion nad ydyn nhw wedi'u cyflawni, ond hoffwn i glywed y ffeithiau ganddi. Soniodd hi, mewn gohebiaeth â mi yn y gorffennol, y byddai cosbau ariannol os nad oedden nhw wedi cyflawni'r gwaith, felly hoffwn i archwilio hynny gyda hi, ac, wrth gwrs, mae hi wedi cyhoeddi cronfa newydd gwerth £80 miliwn, y mae hi'n dweud sydd yn agored i atebion arloesol hefyd, a hoffwn ddeall sut y mae hynny'n berthnasol i'r cymunedau hynny yn fy rhanbarth nad ydyn nhw wedi gallu defnyddio band eang cyflym yn ystod yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf. Felly, byddwn i'n croesawu'n fawr ddatganiad llafar gan y rheolwr busnes yn rhinwedd ei swyddogaeth yn Ysgrifennydd Polisi'r Cabinet. 

A'r diweddariad olaf yr hoffwn i ofyn amdano gan y Llywodraeth, yw un gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros faterion gwledig ynglŷn â ble'r ydym ni arni o ran syrcasau ac anifeiliaid gwyllt yma yng Nghymru. Rydym ni wedi cael cynnig ynglŷn â thrwyddedu anifeiliaid gwyllt mewn syrcasau ac arddangosfeydd anifeiliaid eraill. Rwyf i fy hun yn gwahaniaethu rhwng anifeiliaid gwyllt a syrcasau ac arddangosfeydd anifeiliaid achlysurol, sydd i'w cael yng Nghymru wledig. Ac, wrth gwrs, mae Llywodraeth San Steffan a Michael Gove yn sôn unwaith eto am wahardd anifeiliaid gwyllt mewn syrcasau. Ni fyddwn i eisiau gweld Cymru yn datblygu i fod yn hafan o syrcasau sy'n digwydd bod yn cynnwys anifeiliaid gwyllt, anifeiliaid gwyllt sy'n perfformio—wyddoch chi, nid y rhai sy'n gyffredinol yn hanu o Gymru ac yn ddomestig, yn yr ystyr hwnnw. Felly, efallai fod hyn yn gyfle i'r Llywodraeth fod yn fwy grymus yn ei hymagwedd, ac unwaith eto, rwy'n credu y byddai'r syniad o gael yr wybodaeth ddiweddaraf gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, drwy gyfrwng datganiad, yn cael ei groesawu gan nifer o Aelodau yn y Siambr.

Well, thank you for those three very interesting topics, Simon Thomas. So, in the spirit of largesse in the new year, I'm going to say that we welcome all three of them. We're very happy to bring forward a debate on matters to do with the NHS. There are a number of issues that I know the Cabinet Secretary wanted to talk about generally in the Chamber anyway, and he's certainly heard some of your concerns there, so we're very happy to bring forward such a debate in Government time. 

In terms of broadband, I am planning, you won't be at all surprised to hear, an oral statement to tell Members exactly where we are at the end of the Superfast Cymru contract, which did come to an end on 31 December. There are a very large number of Members, across the Chamber, who've got an interest in how that contract panned out. It will be around 16 weeks until we know the figures for sure. We'll know immediately what BT has claimed that they have passed, but the Member will know that we have a vigorous testing process, to ensure that what they claim is in fact verified by us. And indeed the Member will also be aware, as will a number of other Members who've drawn this to my attention—I'm aware that Russell George has two letters outstanding from me in my inbox at the moment—of people who we've written to, saying that we think that they can get broadband, and they write back and say they can't. That's actually one of the testing processes. It's very frustrating for the people who get those letters, who can't get it, but it's very reassuring to us that we send out thousands of those letters, and we gets tens back. So, it's a small percentage. But, nevertheless, the checks are there and they're very vigorous. It does take a while—there's a lag between what BT claim and what we know is verified. So, we will not be able to put final numbers, and therefore contractual clauses into play, until we've gone through that process. There will be a small lag. But I can tell you where we are in terms of that process straight away. 

In terms of the new fund, I'm hoping to bring forward a series of workshops and solutions to some of the outstanding issues there. I'm doing a circuit of Wales. Some of you will know that I've been on my travels around Wales doing this for quite some time. I'm very happy to come and talk to any community, or any group of people, who have an innovative solution they want to put forward or who have particular issues. I've visited a number of constituencies already, and I'm continuing to do that. The issues are very straightforward really. Our choices will be between playing a numbers game—so get to as many people as possible, even though those people might not be desperate for broadband right now, and might not buy it—or get to the people who are desperate, but that might reduce the numbers of people who actually have access to it in the short term. So, we are still in the process of making some of those decisions, and I expect that we'll go for a balance between those two things. But if you have specific—and this applies to Members across the Chamber—if you have specific communities of interest, or individuals who have particular solutions they'd like to discuss, I'd very much like to hear from you on that. But I will be bringing that forward in the next few weeks.

And the Cabinet Secretary for rural affairs and other matters has just indicated to me that she is going to bring forward an oral statement on circuses in the near future, as we share the concerns that the Member outlined, and very much do not want to be in the position that he suggested might happen.

Wel, diolch am y tri phwnc diddorol iawn yna, Simon Thomas. Felly, gan fy mod i'n teimlo'n hael yn y flwyddyn newydd, rwyf yn mynd i ddweud ein bod yn croesawu'r tri ohonynt. Rydym yn fodlon iawn cyflwyno dadl ar faterion sy'n ymwneud â'r GIG. Mae nifer o broblemau y gwn i y mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet eisiau eu trafod yn gyffredinol yn y Siambr beth bynnag, ac yn sicr mae wedi clywed rhai o'ch pryderon, felly rydym yn hapus iawn i gyflwyno dadl o'r fath yn amser y Llywodraeth.

O ran band eang, rwyf yn cynllunio, ni fydd yn syndod mawr i chi glywed, datganiad llafar i ddweud wrth Aelodau yn union beth yw ein sefyllfa ar ddiwedd y contract Cyflymu Cymru, a ddaeth i ben ar 31 Rhagfyr. Mae gan nifer fawr iawn o Aelodau, ledled y Siambr, ddiddordeb o ran clywed sut weithiodd y contract hwnnw. Bydd yn rhaid aros tua 16 wythnos nes y cawn ni wybod y ffigurau yn bendant. Byddwn yn gwybod yn syth beth y mae BT yn honni y maen nhw wedi eu pasio, ond bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod bod gennym ni broses profi cadarn, er mwyn sicrhau bod yr hyn y maen nhw'n ei honi mewn gwirionedd wedi'i ddilysu gennym ni. Ac yn wir bydd yr Aelod hefyd yn ymwybodol, fel y bydd nifer o Aelodau eraill sydd wedi dwyn hyn i'm sylw—rwy'n ymwybodol nad wyf wedi ateb dau lythyr gan Russell George sydd yn fy mewnflwch ar hyn o bryd—o bobl yr ydym ni wedi ysgrifennu atyn nhw, yn dweud ein bod ni'n credu y gallan nhw gael band eang, ac maen nhw wedi ymateb yn dweud na allant. Mewn gwirionedd, dyna un o'r prosesau profi. Mae'n rhwystredig iawn i'r bobl sy'n cael y llythyrau hynny, sydd ddim yn gallu cael band eang, ond mae'n galonogol iawn ein bod yn anfon miloedd o'r llythyrau hynny, a dim ond degau yr ydym ni'n eu cael yn ôl. Felly, mae'n ganran fach. Ond, serch hynny, mae'r gwiriadau ar waith ac maen nhw'n gadarn iawn. Mae'n cymryd amser—mae yna oedi o ran yr hyn y mae BT yn ei honni a'r hyn a wyddom ni sy'n gywir. Felly, ni fyddwn ni'n gallu ystyried y niferoedd terfynol, ac felly'r cymalau cytundebol, hyd nes ein bod yn cwblhau'r broses honno. Bydd ychydig o oedi. Ond gallaf ddweud wrthych chi beth yw ein sefyllfa o ran y broses honno yn syth.

O ran y gronfa newydd, rwy'n gobeithio cyflwyno cyfres o weithdai ac atebion i rai o'r problemau sydd heb eu datrys ynglŷn â hynny. Rwy'n gwneud cylchdaith o Gymru. Bydd rhai ohonoch chi'n ymwybodol fy mod i wedi teithio o amgylch Cymru yn gwneud hyn ers cryn amser. Rwy'n hapus iawn i fynd i siarad ag unrhyw gymuned, neu unrhyw grŵp o bobl, sydd ag ateb arloesol y maen nhw eisiau ei gyflwyno, neu sydd â phroblemau penodol. Rwyf wedi ymweld â nifer o etholaethau eisoes, ac rwy'n parhau i wneud hynny. Mae'r problemau yn syml iawn mewn gwirionedd. Bydd ein dewisiadau rhwng chwarae gêm rifau—felly cyrraedd cymaint o bobl â phosibl, hyd yn oed os nad yw'r bobl hynny efallai yn awyddus iawn i gael band eang ar hyn o bryd, ac efallai na fyddan nhw'n ei brynu—neu cyrraedd y bobl sydd ar ben eu tennyn, ond gallai hynny leihau nifer y bobl sy'n gallu ei ddefnyddio yn y tymor byr. Felly, rydym ni'n dal i fod wrthi yn gwneud rhai o'r penderfyniadau hynny, ac rwy'n disgwyl y byddwn ni'n dewis cydbwysedd rhwng y ddau. Ond os oes gennych chi—ac mae hyn yn berthnasol i bob Aelodau yn y Siambr—os oes gennych chi gymunedau buddiant penodol, neu unigolion sydd ag atebion penodol yr hoffent eu trafod, hoffwn i'n fawr iawn glywed gennych chi ynglŷn â hynny. Ond byddaf yn cyflwyno hynny yn yr ychydig wythnosau nesaf.

Ac mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros faterion gwledig a materion eraill newydd ddweud wrthyf y bydd yn cyflwyno datganiad llafar ynglŷn â syrcasau yn y dyfodol agos, gan ein bod ni'n rhannu'r pryderon y gwnaeth yr Aelod sôn amdanynt, a dydym ni ddim yn dymuno o gwbl bod yn y sefyllfa yr oedd ef wedi awgrymu y gallai ddigwydd. 

14:35

Good afternoon, leader of the house, and may I wish you and all my colleagues here a very happy new year? I hope that 2018 brings us all a measure of health and peace.

I do welcome your largesse in offering to bring forward, on behalf of the Government, a debate on the NHS, but I did pick out that you said 'in general'. And I would like very much to ask you to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Services to bring forward a debate specifically around the recent reports on the problems with the winter pressures that we face. I do appreciate that we are in the middle of winter pressures, and winter pressures will continue for some months, and I do appreciate that it is exceptionally difficult. I also appreciate that steps have been taken. However, it is our job to scrutinise, and through the Cabinet Secretary, it is our job to scrutinise the health boards and what they have achieved or not achieved, and how they have handled the large sums of taxpayers' funds that they have received to help them get through what has been a very, very tricky time. And I think we all know it's been a tricky time, because we are hearing first-hand stories from constituents, stories from people who work within the NHS and, of course, the media stories. So, I would ask for us to actually have a specific debate on this issue so that we can not only scrutinise, but bring forward potential solutions that might help us, even in the short term, let alone going forward for next year, because this is a cycle we absolutely must break.

And my second statement I would like to ask for—I would actually be very happy to have a written statement—again from the Minister for health and social services, and just some clarification, please, on who funds and how training places are funded within Wales, and how training places are funded between the deanery, what kind of training places are asked by the deanery to be funded by local health boards, because my concern is that the deanery may be taking money away from local health boards, which, of course, is money away from front-line services, and we need to have a really good examination. So, I'd like to have some clarification on the reports that I've been hearing from royal colleges that there is a lack of clarity over funding for training places by the deanery and by local health boards—who is responsible for what—because we cannot grow our training places otherwise.

Prynhawn da, arweinydd y Tŷ, a gaf i ddymuno i chi a'm holl gyd-Aelodau yma flwyddyn newydd dda iawn? Gobeithio y daw 2018 â rhywfaint o iechyd a heddwch i ni i gyd.

Rwy'n croesawu eich haelioni yn cynnig cyflwyno, ar ran y Llywodraeth, ddadl ynglŷn â'r GIG, ond rwy'n sylwi ar y ffaith eich bod wedi dweud 'yn gyffredinol'. Ac fe hoffwn i ofyn i chi ofyn i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol gyflwyno dadl benodol ynghylch yr adroddiadau diweddar ynglŷn â'r problemau yr ydym ni'n eu hwynebu o ran pwysau'r gaeaf. Rwyf yn cydnabod ein bod ni yng nghanol pwysau'r gaeaf, ac y bydd pwysau'r gaeaf yn parhau am rai misoedd, ac rwyf yn cydnabod ei bod hi'n eithriadol o anodd. Sylweddolaf hefyd y gwnaed peth gwaith ynglŷn â hyn eisoes. Fodd bynnag, ein gwaith ni yw craffu, a thrwy Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, ein gwaith ni yw craffu ar y byrddau iechyd ac ar yr hyn y maen nhw wedi ei gyflawni neu beidio, a sut y maen nhw wedi trin y symiau mawr o arian y trethdalwyr a gawsant i'w helpu i ymdopi â'r hyn sydd wedi bod yn gyfnod anodd iawn, iawn. A chredaf fod pob un ohonom ni'n ymwybodol y bu hi'n gyfnod anodd, oherwydd ein bod ni'n clywed straeon yn uniongyrchol gan etholwyr, straeon gan bobl sy'n gweithio yn y GIG ac, wrth gwrs, y storïau yn y cyfryngau. Felly, hoffwn ofyn i ni gael dadl benodol ynglŷn â'r mater hwn mewn gwirionedd, fel y gallwn ni gynnal proses graffu, ond hefyd er mwyn cyflwyno atebion posib a allai ein helpu, hyd yn oed yn y tymor byr, heb sôn am y flwyddyn nesaf, gan fod hyn yn gylch y mae'n rhaid i ni ei dorri yn bendant.

A'r ail ddatganiad yr hoffwn i ofyn amdano—byddwn mewn gwirionedd yn hapus iawn gyda datganiad ysgrifenedig—eto gan y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, ynghyd â dim ond rhywfaint o eglurhad, os gwelwch yn dda, ynglŷn â phwy sy'n ariannu a sut y caiff lleoedd hyfforddi eu hariannu yng Nghymru, a sut y caiff lleoedd hyfforddi eu hariannu rhwng y ddeoniaeth, pa fath o leoedd hyfforddi y mae'r ddeoniaeth yn gofyn i'r byrddau iechyd lleol eu hariannu, oherwydd fy mhryder i yw bod y ddeoniaeth yn cymryd arian oddi ar fyrddau iechyd lleol, sydd, wrth gwrs, yn arian oddi ar wasanaethau rheng flaen, ac mae angen i ni gael archwiliad gwirioneddol drylwyr. Felly, hoffwn i gael rhywfaint o eglurhad ynglŷn â'r adroddiadau yr wyf wedi bod yn eu clywed gan golegau brenhinol fod diffyg eglurder ynghylch cyllido lleoedd hyfforddi gan y ddeoniaeth a chan fyrddau iechyd lleol—pwy sy'n gyfrifol am beth—oherwydd, ni allwn ni gynyddu ein lleoedd hyfforddi fel arall.

14:40

Well, thank you for both of those important points. On the first one—the winter pressures—I know that the Cabinet Secretary is planning to make a statement on winter pressures and how they've worked over this winter and future—. He'll be bringing that forward in due course. So, it won't be a debate, but there is a statement planned for that. The Cabinet Secretary is also indicating to me that he's more than happy to write to Members and clarify the issues that the Member has raised and just to make sure that we all understand the situation as it is.FootnoteLink So, I'll make sure that he writes to all Members and sets out that clarification as requested. 

Llywydd, I'd like to point out that I'm not always in this good a mood, so people should take advantage today. [Laughter.

Wel, diolch ichi am y ddau bwynt pwysig hyn. Ynglŷn â'r un cyntaf—pwysau'r gaeaf —rwy'n gwybod bod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn bwriadu gwneud datganiad ynglŷn â phwysau'r gaeaf a sut maen nhw wedi gweithio dros y gaeaf hwn ac yn y dyfodol—. Bydd yn cyflwyno hynny maes o law. Felly, ni fydd dadl ynglŷn â hyn, ond mae datganiad wedi'i gynllunio ar gyfer hynny. Mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet hefyd yn dweud wrthyf ei fod yn fwy na pharod i ysgrifennu at yr Aelodau ac egluro'r materion mae'r Aelod wedi holi yn eu cylch, dim ond i wneud yn siŵr bod pob un ohonom ni'n deall y sefyllfa fel y mae.FootnoteLink Felly, byddaf yn sicrhau ei fod yn ysgrifennu at bob Aelod ac yn egluro hynny fel y gofynnwyd.

Llywydd, hoffwn i nodi nad wyf bob amser mewn hwyliau mor dda, felly dylai pobl fanteisio ar hyn heddiw. [Chwerthin.]

That's your challenge, Russell George. [Laughter.] 

Honno yw eich her chi, Russell George. [Chwerthin.]

Well, thank you, Llywydd—it is indeed. The leader of the house has probably guessed what I'd like to request my oral statement on, and that is indeed broadband, of course, now that we've seen the end of the Superfast Cymru fibre broadband project. You have given a commitment, I'm pleased to hear, to bring forward an oral statement, but you mentioned that it will be 16 weeks until you get the data from BT. But I would be grateful if you could bring forward an oral statement well before then and then a further oral statement after 16 weeks after you've received the data you've mentioned. I am, of course, one of the AMs who has been inundated with complaints from residents who have previously been promised an upgrade by the end of 2017 who have now been told, of course, that time has run out. So, I would be grateful in your oral statement for a cast-iron guarantee from you that all those premises that were previously listed as in scope for an upgrade will now be automatically transferred into a successor scheme, because I think it would be unacceptable if these people were simply left in the lurch. These people have been repeatedly promised an upgrade by a certain date and they've repeatedly been let down and I think that really isn't good enough—it's completely unacceptable. 

The second oral statement I'd like to request from you is an update on the Government's mobile action plan, one year after, of course, your initial round-table discussion with stakeholders, so that Members can see what the Welsh Government has been doing in the nine key areas that were identified to improve mobile connectivity in Wales.  

Wel, diolch ichi, Llywydd—ie, yn wir. Mae'n debyg bod arweinydd y Tŷ wedi dyfalu yr hyn yr hoffwn i holi yn ei gylch yn fy natganiad llafar, a hynny yn wir yw band eang, wrth gwrs, gan ein bod eisoes wedi gweld diwedd y prosiect band eang ffeibr Cyflymu Cymru. Rydych chi wedi gwneud ymrwymiad, rwy'n falch o glywed, i gyflwyno datganiad llafar, ond gwnaethoch sôn y bydd hi'n 16 wythnos nes cewch y data gan BT. Ond byddwn i'n ddiolchgar pe gallech chi wneud datganiad llafar ymhell cyn hynny, ac yna, datganiad llafar arall ar ôl 16 wythnos wedi i chi dderbyn y data yr ydych chi wedi'i grybwyll. Rwyf, wrth gwrs, yn un o Aelodau'r Cynulliad sydd wedi derbyn llwyth o gwynion gan drigolion a gafodd addewid o'r blaen am uwchraddio erbyn diwedd 2017 sydd erbyn hyn wedi cael gwybod bod yr amser wedi dod i ben, wrth gwrs. Felly, byddwn i'n ddiolchgar cael sicrwydd pendant gennych chi yn eich datganiad llafar y caiff yr holl safleoedd hynny a oedd eisoes wedi eu rhestru ar gyfer eu huwchraddio eu trosglwyddo yn awtomatig nawr i gynllun olynol, gan fy mod yn credu ei bod hi'n annerbyniol pe byddai'r bobl hynny yn cael eu gadael mewn twll. Addawyd dro ar ôl tro i'r bobl hynny y caen nhw eu huwchraddio erbyn dyddiad penodol a dro ar ôl tro maen nhw wedi cael eu siomi a chredaf nad hynny mewn gwirionedd yn ddigon da —mae'n gwbl annerbyniol.

Yr ail ddatganiad llafar yr hoffwn i ofyn amdano gennych chi yw diweddariad ynglŷn â chynllun gweithredu i wella cysylltedd ffonau symudol y Llywodraeth, flwyddyn yn ddiweddarach, wrth gwrs, ar ôl eich trafodaeth gychwynnol gyda rhanddeiliaid, fel y gall Aelodau weld beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i wneud yn y naw maes allweddol a nodwyd i wella cysylltedd ffonau symudol yng Nghymru.

Yes, on the first of that, just to make that point of clarification, I certainly wasn't saying that I was going to wait 16 weeks. I was simply saying I wouldn't have the definitive figures for 16 weeks. We will be bringing forward an oral statement shortly to set out what we intend to do with the second phase and to say where we are and the definitive timescale. I said about 16 weeks but we'll have a definitive timescale for knowing where we are with that. 

One of the constituent community groups—community in the widest possible sense—is that of those people who were in scope and for one reason or another were not in scope. A huge exercise needs to be undertaken as to what—. Sorry, for the technical stuff here, but Openreach builds out something called structures and we're undertaking an enormous technical exercise to find out where those structures have been built to and what the cost of continuing them might be and what the best method of doing that might be. We're not in a position to say so yet, but it's certainly under consideration. I absolutely recognise the problem that the Member says, and I know, Llywydd, you've had similar problems in your own constituency, as have a number of other Members. So, we're very aware of that as an issue and we are looking into the technical difficulty of being able to make those. So, I don't want to make any more promises that we can't deliver. We've discussed ad nauseam some of the communications difficulties and we certainly don't want to go there again. But I'm more than happy to come and talk to another group of people in those circumstances in your constituency and indeed, Llywydd, I know you have similar difficulties yourself. So, they're very much in our mind and I will be addressing that in the oral statement as well. 

In terms of the mobile action plan, I am also planning to bring forward another statement on the mobile action plan, not least because the UK Government has brought forward its Digital Economy Bill and turned it into an Act and they've made a number of announcements about a differing approach to both mobile and spectrum sales and to the correlation between the universal service obligation for broadband and mobile, which are all very inter-related. So, I will be bringing forward a statement when we understand what that means for us here in Wales in terms of where we are. Indeed, the Cabinet Secretary for planning—on the research that we commissioned—will also be bringing forward a statement to say where we are with that research in terms of how we deal with permitted development rights and their impact.

Ie, ynglŷn â'r sylw cyntaf, dim ond i roi eglurhad, yn sicr, nid oeddwn i'n dweud y byddwn i'n aros 16 wythnos. Roeddwn i'n dweud yn syml na fyddai gennyf ffigurau pendant am 16 wythnos. Byddwn ni'n cyflwyno datganiad llafar cyn bo hir i amlinellu'r hyn y bwriadwn ni ei wneud yn yr ail gam ac i ddweud ble yr ydym ni arni a sôn am amserlen bendant. Dywedais 16 wythnos, ond bydd gennym ni amserlen bendant er mwyn gwybod ble yr ydym ni arni yn hynny o beth. 

Un o'r grwpiau cymunedol sy'n rhan o'r darlun hwn—cymunedol yn yr ystyr ehangaf bosibl—yw'r bobl hynny a oedd i fod i dderbyn band eang ac am un rheswm neu'i gilydd na chawson nhw hynny. Mae angen cynnal ymarfer enfawr ynghylch hyn—. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, am y materion technegol yma, ond mae Openreach yn adeiladu rhywbeth a elwir yn strwythurau ac rydym ni'n gwneud ymarferiad technegol enfawr i ddarganfod ym mhle yr adeiladwyd y strwythurau hynny a beth fyddai'r gost o barhau â nhw a beth allai fod y ffordd orau o wneud hynny. Nid ydym ni mewn sefyllfa i ddweud hynny eto, ond mae'n sicr o dan ystyriaeth. Rwy'n cydnabod yn llwyr y broblem y mae'r Aelod yn sôn amdani, ac rwy'n gwybod, Llywydd, y bu gennych chi broblemau tebyg yn eich etholaeth eich hun, fel y bu gan nifer o Aelodau eraill. Felly, rydym ni'n ymwybodol iawn o'r broblem honno ac rydym ni'n edrych ar yr anhawster technegol o allu gwneud hynny. Felly, nid wyf eisiau gwneud unrhyw addewidion pellach na allwn ni eu cyflawni. Rydym ni wedi trafod yn ddygn rhai o'r anawsterau cyfathrebu ac nid ydym ni eisiau gwneud hynny eto. Ond rwy'n fwy na pharod i ddod i siarad â grŵp arall o bobl yn y sefyllfa honno yn eich etholaeth ac yn wir, Llywydd, gwn fod gennych chi eich hun anawsterau tebyg. Felly, rydym ni'n ystyried yr agweddau hynny a byddaf yn ymdrin â hynny yn y datganiad llafar hefyd.

O ran y cynllun gweithredu i wella cysylltedd ffonau symudol, rwyf hefyd yn bwriadu cyflwyno datganiad arall ynglŷn â'r cynllun gweithredu i wella cysylltedd ffonau symudol, ac un o'r rhesymau yw bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi cyflwyno ei Bil Economi Ddigidol a'i droi yn Ddeddf ac maen nhw wedi gwneud nifer o gyhoeddiadau ynglŷn â ffyrdd eraill o ymdrin â gwerthu hawliau cysylltedd ffonau symudol a hawliau sbectrwm ac ar y gydberthynas rhwng y rhwymedigaeth gwasanaeth cyffredin ar gyfer band eang a chysylltedd symudol, sydd i gyd yn gysylltiedig â'i gilydd. Felly, byddaf yn cyflwyno datganiad pan fyddwn ni'n deall beth y mae hynny'n ei olygu i ni yma yng Nghymru o ran y sefyllfa yr ydym ni ynddi. Yn wir, bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros gynllunio hefyd yn cyflwyno datganiad—ynglŷn â'r ymchwil a gomisiynwyd gennym ni—i ddweud lle yr ydym ni arni gyda'r gwaith ymchwil hwnnw o ran sut yr ydym ni'n ymdrin â hawliau datblygu caniataedig ac effaith yr hawliau hynny. 

14:45

A happy new year to all. May I ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health on preparations by the national health service to deal with the outbreak of Australian flu in Wales? Public Health Wales has confirmed that cases of the H3N2 strain of the virus have been detected in Wales. Over 100,000 people needed treatment in A&E in Australia due to this particular nasty virus. Over 370 people died there, and the majority of them were senior citizens. Could I ask for a statement on what is being done to raise awareness of the dangers of Australian flu among our vulnerable groups, and also the availability and effectiveness of the flu vaccine in combating this virus in Wales?

The second statement I would like is again from the health Secretary. Minister, I met a total gentleman, 79 years old, just after Christmas, and he was crying like a child. The reason was because he lived very close by to a pub, and that pub, in his words, is not a pub for social drinking and meeting but it is actually a drugs den and his life was really so disturbed. He was happily married for over 50-odd years. I won't mention the area, but he wanted to move away from Wales. I said, 'Why are you leaving?' He has given all his life, work, children and everything, but because of the smell, noise, disturbance and nastiness in the area, these vulnerable old people—. I travel extensively in south-east Wales, in all these areas, and believe me, Minister, I smell, myself, in pubs, the corner shops and other areas, the marijuana smell. So, I would be grateful if you'd make a statement, or we make sure that we have a debate here on whether we legalise marijuana in Wales, or have some places where people can go and smoke, rather than giving these vulnerable people such a hell of a time in Wales. Thank you.

Blwyddyn newydd dda i bawb. A gaf i ofyn am ddatganiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros iechyd am baratoadau’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol i ymdrin ag achosion o ffliw Awstralia yng Nghymru? Mae Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru wedi cadarnhau bod achosion o straen H3N2 y firws wedi cael eu canfod yng Nghymru. Mae dros 100,000 o bobl wedi gorfod cael triniaeth mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn Awstralia oherwydd y firws cas penodol hwn. Bu farw dros 370 o bobl yno, ac roedd y rhan fwyaf ohonyn nhw'n bensiynwyr. A gaf i ofyn am ddatganiad ar yr hyn sy'n cael ei wneud i godi ymwybyddiaeth o beryglon ffliw Awstralia ymhlith ein grwpiau agored i niwed, a hefyd faint o'r brechlyn ffliw sydd ar gael a'i effeithiolrwydd o ran ymladd yn erbyn y firws hwn yng Nghymru?

Mae’r ail ddatganiad a hoffwn unwaith eto gan yr Ysgrifennydd iechyd. Weinidog, cyfarfûm â gŵr bonheddig iawn, 79 oed, ychydig ar ôl y Nadolig, ac roedd yn crïo fel plentyn. Y rheswm am hyn oedd ei fod yn byw yn agos iawn i dafarn, ac nid yw’r dafarn honno, yn ei eiriau ef, yn dafarn i yfed a chwrdd yn gymdeithasol ond mae'n dden cyffuriau ac roedd hyn yn aflonyddu’n ddifrifol ar ei fywyd. Roedd yn briod yn hapus ers dros 50 o flynyddoedd. Ni wnaf enwi’r ardal, ond roedd eisiau symud o Gymru. Dywedais, 'Pam ydych chi'n gadael?' Mae wedi rhoi ei holl fywyd, gwaith, plant a phopeth, ond oherwydd yr arogl, y sŵn, yr aflonyddwch a’r annymunoldeb yn yr ardal, mae’r bobl hŷn hyn sy’n agored i niwed—. Rwy’n teithio llawer yn y de-ddwyrain, yn yr ardaloedd hyn i gyd, a chredwch fi, Weinidog, rwy’n arogli, fy hun, mewn tafarnau, siopau cornel a mannau eraill, arogl mariwana. Felly, byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe byddech chi'n gwneud datganiad, neu ein bod yn gwneud yn siŵr ein bod yn cael dadl yma ynglŷn â chyfreithloni mariwana yng Nghymru, neu greu mannau y gall pobl fynd iddynt i ysmygu, yn hytrach na rhoi amser mor ddrwg i’r bobl agored i niwed hyn yng Nghymru. Diolch.

On the first point Mohammad Asghar raises, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Services will be covering that as part of his statement on the winter preparedness issue. On the second, I'm afraid that's a matter for the local authority, very much. It's a matter for either the police commissioner or the local authority, or both of them acting in concert. I would suggest the Member takes up specific issues of that sort with the authorities that deal with it.

O ran pwynt cyntaf Mohammad Asghar, bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn sôn am hynny yn rhan o'i ddatganiad ynghylch parodrwydd am y gaeaf. O ran yr ail, mae arnaf ofn mai mater i'r awdurdod lleol yw hwnnw, yn sicr. Mae'n fater naill ai i’r comisiynydd heddlu neu'r awdurdod lleol, neu'r ddau ohonyn nhw yn gweithredu ar y cyd. Byddwn yn awgrymu bod yr Aelod yn sôn am faterion penodol o'r fath wrth yr awdurdodau sy'n ymdrin â hynny.

3. Datganiad gan y Gweinidog Gofal Cymdeithasol a Phlant: Ymgynghoriad ar Ddeddfwriaeth i gael Gwared ar yr Amddiffyniad Cosb Resymol
3. Statement by the Minister for Children and Social Care: Consultation on Legislation to Remove the Defence of Reasonable Punishment

Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r datganiad gan y Gweinidog Gofal Cymdeithasol a Phlant ar yr ymgynghoriad ar ddeddfwriaeth i gael gwared ar amddiffyniad cosb resymol. Rwy'n galw ar y Gweinidog, Huw Irranca-Davies, i wneud ei ddatganiad.

The next item is a statement by the Minister for Children and Social Care on the consultation on legislation to remove the defence of reasonable punishment. I call on the Minister, Huw Irranca-Davies, to make a statement.

Diolch, Llywydd, a blwyddyn newydd dda hefyd.

Thank you, Llywydd, and a happy new year too.

I am very pleased today to be launching a consultation to inform the development of our legislative proposals to remove the defence of reasonable punishment. The national strategy 'Prosperity for All' recognises that confident, positive and resilient parenting is fundamental to preparing children for life, and the importance of providing help and support to parents. The Welsh Government is rightly proud of our record in Wales of working to ensure all children in Wales have the very best start in life, and of promoting children’s rights. This is why, as a Government, we intend to bring forward legislation to remove the defence of reasonable punishment. We want to make it clear that physically punishing a child is no longer acceptable in Wales.  

The proposed legislation is part of a wider package of measures aimed at bringing about changes in attitudes towards the way children and young people are raised and disciplined, by making physical punishment unacceptable and by promoting positive alternatives. As a Government, we have invested significantly in parenting programmes right across Wales, and in information campaigns such as ‘Parenting: Give it Time’ to support parents to be the best they can. We want the legislation to accelerate behavioural change in the way parents discipline their children, and we also want to provide parents with the support to feel confident in choosing positive and more effective methods of discipline.

Our knowledge of what children need to grow and thrive has developed considerably over the last 20 years. The interactions that parents now have with their children have also changed in response to that knowledge, and public attitudes to parenting practices have changed as well. We now know that physical punishment can have negative long-term impacts on a child’s life chances and we also know it is an ineffective punishment. Whilst physically punishing children was accepted as normal practice in previous generations, we know that it is increasingly being seen as less acceptable and parents feel less comfortable using physical punishment. We also have a longstanding commitment to children’s rights based on the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, and we must continue to deliver on this commitment.

Legislation was introduced many years ago to stop physical punishment in schools and in childcare settings, and now is the time to ensure it is no longer acceptable anywhere. We are committed to removing the defence of reasonable punishment and we want to ensure we develop legislative proposals that are fit for purpose, as well as ensuring that we have a wider package of measures in place to support parents.

Now, I'm aware that there are differing views on this legislation. In order to inform our understanding of its potential impact, we have already engaged with a wide range of public service bodies, including the police, social services and the Crown Prosecution Service. This consultation provides an opportunity to further develop our proposals and provide everyone with an opportunity to have their say to help us to try to address any concerns as the legislation develops. And I'm keen to ensure that this legislation can proceed with as much agreement as possible in this Assembly and in Welsh society as a whole. I'm particularly concerned that parents should feel confident that this law and our wider efforts to promote positive parenting are designed to help them give their children the very best possible start in life. That is our intention and I welcome ideas, through the consultation process, on how best we can achieve it, and I look forward to hearing from Members today. Thank you.

Rwy’n falch iawn heddiw o lansio ymgynghoriad i lywio datblygiad ein cynigion deddfwriaethol i ddileu amddiffyniad cosb resymol. Mae'r strategaeth genedlaethol 'Ffyniant i Bawb' yn cydnabod bod rhianta hyderus, cadarnhaol a chydnerth yn hanfodol i baratoi plant ar gyfer bywyd, a’i bod yn bwysig darparu cymorth a chefnogaeth i rieni. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn falch iawn o’n hanes yng Nghymru o weithio i sicrhau bod pob plentyn yng Nghymru yn cael y dechrau gorau posibl mewn bywyd, ac o hyrwyddo hawliau plant. Dyma pam, fel Llywodraeth, yr ydym ni'n bwriadu cyflwyno deddfwriaeth i gael gwared ar amddiffyniad cosb resymol. Rydym ni eisiau ei gwneud yn glir nad yw cosbi plentyn yn gorfforol yn dderbyniol yng Nghymru mwyach.

Mae'r ddeddfwriaeth arfaethedig yn rhan o becyn ehangach o fesurau sydd â'r nod o newid agweddau tuag at sut i fagu a disgyblu plant a phobl ifanc, drwy wneud cosb gorfforol yn annerbyniol a hyrwyddo dewisiadau amgen cadarnhaol. Fel Llywodraeth, rydym ni wedi buddsoddi'n sylweddol mewn rhaglenni rhianta ledled Cymru, ac mewn ymgyrchoedd gwybodaeth fel ‘Magu plant: Rhowch amser iddo’ i gefnogi rhieni i fod y gorau y gallant. Hoffem i’r ddeddfwriaeth gyflymu newid ymddygiadol yn y ffordd y mae rhieni’n disgyblu eu plant, a hoffem hefyd roi cymorth i’r rhieni i deimlo'n hyderus wrth ddewis dulliau disgyblu cadarnhaol a mwy effeithiol.

Mae ein gwybodaeth am yr hyn sydd ei angen ar blant i dyfu a ffynnu wedi datblygu’n sylweddol dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf. Mae’r ymadweithio rhwng rhieni a’u plant erbyn hyn hefyd wedi newid mewn ymateb i’r wybodaeth honno, ac mae agweddau'r cyhoedd tuag at arferion rhianta wedi newid hefyd. Rydym ni nawr yn gwybod bod cosbau corfforol yn gallu cael effeithiau negyddol hirdymor ar gyfleoedd bywyd plentyn ac rydym hefyd yn gwybod eu bod yn gosbau aneffeithiol. Er bod cenedlaethau blaenorol yn derbyn cosbi plant yn gorfforol fel arfer arferol, rydym yn gwybod bod mwy a mwy o bobl yn ei ystyried yn llai derbyniol a bod rhieni’n teimlo'n llai cyfforddus wrth ddefnyddio cosbau corfforol. Mae gennym hefyd ymrwymiad hirsefydlog i hawliau plant yn seiliedig ar Gonfensiwn y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar Hawliau'r Plentyn, ac mae'n rhaid inni gadw at yr ymrwymiad hwn.

Cyflwynwyd deddfwriaeth flynyddoedd lawer yn ôl i atal cosbi corfforol mewn ysgolion ac mewn lleoliadau gofal plant, ac nawr yw'r amser i sicrhau nad yw bellach yn dderbyniol yn unman. Rydym ni wedi ymrwymo i ddileu amddiffyniad cosb resymol a hoffem sicrhau ein bod yn datblygu cynigion deddfwriaethol sy'n addas at y diben, yn ogystal â sicrhau bod gennym becyn ehangach o fesurau ar waith i gefnogi rhieni.

Nawr, rwy’n gwybod bod gwahanol safbwyntiau am y ddeddfwriaeth hon. Er mwyn cyfrannu at ein dealltwriaeth o’i heffaith bosibl, rydym eisoes wedi ymgysylltu ag amrywiaeth eang o gyrff gwasanaeth cyhoeddus, gan gynnwys yr heddlu, y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a Gwasanaeth Erlyn y Goron. Mae'r ymgynghoriad hwn yn gyfle i ddatblygu ein cynigion ymhellach a rhoi cyfle i bawb ddweud eu dweud i’n helpu i geisio ymdrin ag unrhyw bryderon wrth ddatblygu’r ddeddfwriaeth. Ac rwy’n awyddus i sicrhau y gall y ddeddfwriaeth hon fynd rhagddi gyda chymaint â phosibl o gytundeb yn y Cynulliad hwn ac yng nghymdeithas Cymru yn ei chyfanrwydd. Mae’n arbennig o bwysig imi y dylai rhieni fod yn ffyddiog mai bwriad y gyfraith hon a’n hymdrechion ehangach i hyrwyddo rhianta cadarnhaol yw helpu i roi'r dechrau gorau posibl i’w plant mewn bywyd. Dyna yw ein bwriad ac rwy’n croesawu syniadau, drwy'r broses ymgynghori, ynglŷn â’r ffordd orau o gyflawni hynny, ac rwy’n edrych ymlaen at glywed gan Aelodau heddiw. Diolch.

14:50

Minister, I'd like to thank you very much for your statement today, and for the courtesy you have extended to both myself and my colleague, Darren Millar, who is unfortunately unable to be with us today, in going through your plans and your rationale behind the consultation. You will be aware that the Welsh Conservatives are a broad church that actually reflects the opinions, concerns and questions posed by a large section of the Welsh population, and there is a diversity of opinion within us, and therefore we will be proceeding along this legislative pathway with a free vote to each and every Member within our party. 

I'm very grateful for that earlier conversation. There are a couple of questions that I feel it would be beneficial for me to ask and to put on the record, and to give you a chance to expand back to me and to other Members of this Chamber, and indeed to the wider public. I think, first of all, I would like to really understand what the Welsh Government will be doing to ensure that this consultation gets out to ordinary people—not the third sector, not the politicians, not the lobby groups, not those of us who have views or may have already made up our minds, but to ordinary parents and ordinary children who aren't part of any sort of grouping or gang, so that we can get their opinions, their thoughts on what they think because, of course, we all know that whatever your view may be, we tend to be very protective about the herd that is our family. And I would like you, in doing that, to make it crystal clear that we all accept that the majority of parents in Wales are good, loving, reasonable individuals, and I really want that message to go out loud and clear. This is not about punishment, coercion or trammelling those individuals. 

I would be very keen if you could give us a little bit more knowledge on how you see this consultation proceeding and explaining to people not just the proposals you've put forward, but what other solutions you looked at and what you discarded. You and I had a conversation about the fact that, by removing the reasonable chastisement, we effectively, in theory, allow everyone to be immediately culpable of a criminal offence. Did you look at other methods where we might be able to go out and help and support those parents who use chastisement inappropriately, wherever you are on that scale. What did your Government take a look at? What have you discarded? Where else did you look, around the world, as to how this might be implemented in a tolerant and proportionate way?

I would be extremely grateful if you would perhaps explain a little bit—finally, Presiding Officer, this is—about the proportionate test, if this legislation were to go ahead. I want to give you one brief example, and I believe you might give me another. I have a teacher, for example, in Pembrokeshire, who took, along with a number of other teachers, a group of kids up to a rugby match. I cannot remember if it was Cardiff or London, but it was one of those cities. And one of the children was a young lad, a bit full of the joys of spring or whatever, and he ran out onto the road. The teacher grabbed him forcibly, dragged him back in. The parents sued that teacher for assault. That teacher has a black mark against his name. To an onlooker, that might have seemed like unfair chastisement. 

Personally, as a parent, I would be ripping my child a verbal shred and being very grateful to the teacher for saving their life, but that's not that teacher's experience. And you know, we've done it, and I'll hold up my hands: I remember my small one, when she was three years old, ran out in front of a concrete lorry coming from Carew quarry. She was grabbed by my friend, because I had a pushchair with my baby in front of me. Katie just let go of my hand and went for it, and she was grabbed by my friend. And I can tell you, I grabbed my child, I burst into tears, I hugged her, and I smacked her bottom, because you just have that enormous conflagration of emotions that sweep through you. So, I'd be interested to know that, in any legislation that is looked at, we are divining the differences between an impulsive moment and a parent who just absolutely loses it on a consistent basis and beats their kid, and I would have to say that I think that the criminal justice system at the moment does have very effective assault and grievous bodily harm capacity to deal with that.

But I think that this is such a delicate area, and I will come back to my original statement: I believe that most parents act from a good base of love, responsibility and a deep, caring perspective on their family, and most parents are very protective of their family, and I do want to make sure that parents do not feel that the Welsh Government, or the Welsh Assembly, is punishing them all for actions they may not have even taken.

Weinidog, hoffwn ddiolch yn fawr iawn ichi am eich datganiad heddiw, ac am y cwrteisi yr ydych wedi’i ddangos i mi ac i’m cyd-Aelod, Darren Millar, sydd yn anffodus yn methu â bod gyda ni heddiw, wrth fynd drwy eich cynlluniau a’ch rhesymeg y tu ôl i'r ymgynghoriad. Byddwch yn gwybod bod y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn cynnwys amrywiaeth eang o bobl sy’n adlewyrchu barn a phryderon rhan helaeth o boblogaeth Cymru, a'r cwestiynau a ofynnwyd ganddynt, a bod amrywiaeth o farn yn ein plith, ac y byddwn felly’n mynd ar hyd y llwybr deddfwriaethol hwn â phleidlais rydd i bob un aelod o’n plaid.

Rwy’n ddiolchgar iawn am y sgwrs honno’n gynharach. Mae un neu ddau o gwestiynau y teimlaf y byddai'n fuddiol imi eu gofyn a’u cofnodi, ac i roi cyfle ichi i’w hateb i mi ac i Aelodau eraill o'r Siambr hon, ac yn wir i'r cyhoedd yn ehangach. Rwy’n meddwl, yn gyntaf oll, yr hoffwn wir ddeall beth y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i sicrhau bod yr ymgynghoriad hwn yn cyrraedd pobl gyffredin—nid y trydydd sector, nid y gwleidyddion, nid y grwpiau lobïo, nid y rhai hynny ohonom sydd â barn neu sydd efallai eisoes wedi penderfynu, ond rhieni cyffredin a phlant cyffredin nad ydyn nhw'n rhan o unrhyw fath o grŵp neu gang, fel y gallwn gael eu barn, eu syniadau ynghylch beth maen nhw'n ei feddwl oherwydd, wrth gwrs, rydym i gyd yn gwybod, beth bynnag yw eich barn, ein bod yn tueddu i fod yn amddiffynnol iawn ynglŷn â’n teuluoedd ein hunain. A hoffwn ichi, wrth wneud hynny, ei gwneud yn gwbl glir ein bod i gyd yn derbyn bod y mwyafrif o rieni yng Nghymru yn unigolion da, cariadus, rhesymol; hoffwn i’r neges honno fod yn uchel ac yn glir. Nid mater o gosbi, gorfodi na rhwystro’r unigolion hynny yw hyn.

Byddwn yn awyddus iawn pe gallech roi ychydig bach mwy o wybodaeth inni am sut y gwelwch yr ymgynghoriad hwn yn bwrw ymlaen ac yn egluro i bobl nid yn unig y cynigion yr ydych wedi’u cyflwyno, ond pa atebion eraill y gwnaethoch edrych arnynt a beth yr ydych chi wedi'i ddiystyru. Cawsoch chi a mi sgwrs am y ffaith ein bod, drwy gael gwared ar y gosb resymol, i bob diben, mewn theori, yn caniatáu i bawb fod ar unwaith yn euog o drosedd. A wnaethoch chi edrych ar ddulliau eraill lle y gallai fod yn bosibl inni fynd allan a helpu a chefnogi'r rhieni hynny sy'n defnyddio cosbau amhriodol, ble bynnag yr ydych ar y raddfa honno. Beth y gwnaeth eich Llywodraeth edrych arno? Beth yr ydych chi wedi'i ddiystyru? Ble arall y gwnaethoch chi edrych, o amgylch y byd, o ran sut y gellid gweithredu hyn mewn ffordd oddefgar a chymesur?

Byddwn yn ddiolchgar iawn pe byddech efallai yn esbonio ychydig—dyma’r peth olaf, Llywydd—am y prawf cymesur, pe byddai’r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn bwrw ymlaen. Hoffwn roi un enghraifft fer ichi, ac rwy’n credu efallai y rhowch chi un arall imi. Mae gen i athro, er enghraifft, yn sir Benfro, a aeth, ynghyd â nifer o athrawon eraill, â grŵp o blant i gêm rygbi. Ni allaf gofio ai Caerdydd ynteu Llundain oedd hyn, ond roedd yn un o'r dinasoedd hynny. Ac roedd un o'r plant yn llanc ifanc, yn llawn llawenydd neu beth bynnag, a rhedodd allan i’r ffordd. Gafaelodd yr athro ynddo’n rymus, i’w lusgo yn ôl. Gwnaeth y rhieni erlyn yr athro hwnnw am ymosodiad. Mae gan yr athro hwnnw farc du yn erbyn ei enw. I rywun sy’n edrych ar y sefyllfa honno, gallai edrych fel cosb annheg.

Yn bersonol, fel rhiant, byddwn i'n rhoi pryd o dafod i fy mhlentyn ac yn ddiolchgar iawn i'r athro am achub ei fywyd, ond nid dyna brofiad yr athro hwnnw. Ac wyddoch chi, rydym ni wedi gwneud hyn, a gwnaf gyfaddef: rwy’n cofio fy merch fach, pan oedd yn dair oed, yn rhedeg allan o flaen lori concrid yn dod o chwarel Carew. Gafaelodd fy ffrind ynddi, oherwydd roedd gen i gadair wthio â babi ynddi o'm blaen. Roedd Katie wedi gollwng fy llaw a mynd amdani, a gafaelodd fy ffrind ynddi. A gallaf ddweud wrthych, fe wnes i afael yn fy mhlentyn, a dechrau wylo, fe wnes i ei chofleidio hi, a’i tharo ar ei phen-ôl, oherwydd mae’r holl emosiynau cymysg hynny’n ysgubo drwoch chi. Felly, byddai gennyf ddiddordeb mewn gwybod, mewn unrhyw ddeddfwriaeth yr ydym yn edrych arni, ein bod yn gwahaniaethu rhwng moment fympwyol a rhiant sy'n gwylltio’n llwyr yn gyson ac yn curo ei blentyn, a byddai'n rhaid imi ddweud fy mod yn meddwl bod pethau effeithiol iawn yn y system cyfiawnder troseddol eisoes, fel ymosodiad a niwed corfforol difrifol, i ymdrin â hynny.

Ond rwy’n meddwl bod hwn yn faes mor sensitif, ac rwy’n mynd i ddod yn ôl at fy natganiad gwreiddiol: rwy’n credu bod y rhan fwyaf o rieni’n gweithredu o sylfaen dda o gariad, cyfrifoldeb a phersbectif dwfn, gofalgar ar eu teulu, a bod y rhan fwyaf o rieni’n amddiffynnol iawn tuag at eu teulu, a hoffwn wneud yn siŵr nad yw rhieni’n teimlo bod Llywodraeth Cymru, neu Gynulliad Cymru, yn eu cosbi i gyd am bethau nad ydynt efallai hyd yn oed wedi eu gwneud.

14:55

Thank you, Angela, and I might begin actually by reinforcing that message. I think probably all of us in this Chamber, and the Welsh Government itself, would fully accept and endorse those sentiments that say that the vast majority of parents in Wales are those who want to bring their children up in a loving environment, and do it with great care, with great attention, with great encouragement, with great support, and showing all those aspects of positive parenting that I'm in danger of turning into the greatest slogan ever here. It means being brought up in an environment where they feel safe and treasured and nurtured, and the vast majority of parents do exactly that. But, I am a parent of three children. They don't come with rule books, unfortunately, because each one is different. It's like some of these devices you buy on the internet; they've all got different cables and different things that wire them up and so on. And we know that sometimes we need support. So, actually, part of this consultation and part of us taking forward this is to do with providing the right support for parents and families. And, by the way, we're not just talking about families where there are great complexities of issues and challenges, but families generally. So, that includes, from the health visitors that first of all arrive with families, through the schools, through the Families First, through the Children First, all of those things, to help parents like myself as much as anybody else. But, absolutely right: the vast majority of parents do a great job, and do it with the best intentions in the world.

The question here is very much to with: we have what we would regard as a Government—and it was certainly in our manifesto and it's been debated for a couple of decades, including by some Members here when they were actually Members of Parliament as well, arguing the case—a taking away of a defence that, at the moment, is only available to parents when they use physical punishment or corporal punishment against their children. You could not advance the same reasonable chastisement defence if you were, for example, to hit somebody who was elderly and had dementia, or somebody who was 25 years of age and had learning difficulties. You cannot advance the same defence, but you can advance the defence, successful or not in its application, against children. So, it's a question of saying, very much supporting the parents, providing the support that is needed, not in a nanny-state way, but in, actually, a good partnership with parents, because we know the direction we want to go, and it's going in this direction, and, secondly, to provide clarity, taking away this defence of reasonable chastisement.

Angela, you asked had we considered any other options. We have, and we've been back and forth in terms of legal counsel, and we've learned from the over 50 examples of other countries of different types of legal jurisdiction where they have done a version of taking this defence away and have clear delineation that an assault is an assault is an assault. We've been able to learn from that. But, we do have our own legal setting within this country and the parameters that we work in, and the very strong, clear advice that we are receiving is that the clearest way to do this is remove the defence of reasonable chastisement and what you are left with is, actually, what is currently there within law, which is an offence of assault.

In the offence of assault, there are certain hurdles you need to pass by. It is not simply, 'I've spotted somebody who was doing something with their children and I think that was assault, that was out of order.' There are evidential tests that, actually, in a court of law, the Crown Prosecution Service would say, 'We think there is evidence here that an assault took place.' Secondly, it needs to be in the public interest. Part of the public interest reasoning behind taking a charge forward—as it currently is, by the way, right across the piste, except in terms of children—would be that not only is it in the public interest, but there is a reasonable chance of success of a prosecution.

I would refer her and other Members to section 9 of the consultation, because, within that, it looks at international evidence, but also the evidence of where this has been used in other countries, including New Zealand, with a slightly different model. Yes, it has led, in the early years, to a rise in reporting; it has led to occasional prosecutions; it's also led to several being cautioned or warned and dismissed, and, of course, then it tails off, because what happens is there is a cultural shift—the same with seat belt laws, the same with many other things—where people accept it is simply not reasonable any more to physically or corporally punish a child, no different from any other member of society.

Diolch, Angela, ac efallai y gwnaf ddechrau, a dweud y gwir, drwy atgyfnerthu’r neges honno. Rwy’n meddwl y byddem i gyd, yn ôl pob tebyg, yn y Siambr hon, ac yn Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun, yn derbyn ac yn ategu'n llwyr y teimladau hynny sy’n dweud bod y mwyafrif helaeth o rieni yng Nghymru yn rhai sydd eisiau magu eu plant mewn amgylchedd cariadus, a gwneud hynny gyda llawer o ofal, gyda llawer o sylw, gyda llawer o anogaeth, gyda llawer o gymorth, a gan ddangos yr holl agweddau hynny ar rianta cadarnhaol yr wyf i mewn perygl o’u troi’n y slogan fwyaf erioed yma. Mae'n golygu cael eu magu mewn amgylchedd lle maent yn teimlo'n ddiogel a lle maent yn cael eu trysori a’u meithrin, a dyna’n union beth mae’r mwyafrif helaeth o rieni’n ei wneud. Ond, rwyf i’n rhiant i dri o blant. Dydyn nhw ddim yn dod gyda llyfrau rheolau, yn anffodus, oherwydd mae pob un yn wahanol. Mae fel rhai o'r dyfeisiau hynny rydych chi’n eu prynu ar y rhyngrwyd; mae gan bob un geblau gwahanol a phethau gwahanol sy’n eu cysylltu nhw ac ati. Ac rydym yn gwybod, weithiau, bod angen cymorth arnom. Felly, a dweud y gwir, mae rhan o'r ymgynghoriad hwn a rhan o fwrw ymlaen â hyn yn fater o ddarparu’r cymorth cywir i rieni a theuluoedd. A, gyda llaw, nid dim ond sôn am deuluoedd lle y ceir cymhlethdodau mawr o faterion a heriau yr ydym, ond am deuluoedd yn gyffredinol. Felly, mae hynny'n cynnwys, o'r ymwelwyr iechyd sy’n ymweld â theuluoedd i ddechrau, drwy'r ysgolion, drwy Teuluoedd yn Gyntaf, drwy Plant yn Gyntaf, yr holl bethau hynny, i helpu rhieni fel fi gymaint â neb arall. Ond, yn hollol gywir: mae’r mwyafrif helaeth o rieni’n gwneud gwaith gwych, ac yn gwneud hynny gyda'r bwriadau gorau yn y byd.

Y mater dan sylw yma yw: mae gennym yr hyn y byddem yn ei ystyried yn Llywodraeth—ac roedd yn sicr yn ein maniffesto ac mae wedi bod yn destun dadleuon ers cwpl o ddegawdau, gan gynnwys gan rai Aelodau yma pan oedden nhw'n Aelodau Seneddol hefyd, yn dadlau’r achos—cael gwared ar amddiffyniad nad yw, ar hyn o bryd, ond ar gael i rieni pan fyddan nhw'n defnyddio cosb gorfforol yn erbyn eu plant. Allech chi ddim defnyddio’r un amddiffyniad o gosb resymol pe byddech chi, er enghraifft, yn taro rhywun oedrannus â dementia, neu rywun 25 mlwydd oed ag anawsterau dysgu. Allwch chi ddim defnyddio’r un amddiffyniad, ond gallwch chi ddefnyddio’r amddiffyniad, yn llwyddiannus neu beidio, yn erbyn plant. Felly, mae'n fater o ddweud, yn sicr er mwyn cefnogi rhieni, darparu'r cymorth sydd ei angen, nid fel gwladwriaeth nani, ond, a dweud y gwir, mewn partneriaeth dda â rhieni, oherwydd rydym yn gwybod i ba gyfeiriad yr hoffem fynd, ac mae'n mynd i'r cyfeiriad hwn, ac, yn ail, i ddarparu eglurder, a chael gwared ar yr amddiffyniad hwn o gosb resymol.

Angela, gwnaethoch chi ofyn a oeddem wedi ystyried unrhyw opsiynau eraill. Rydym wedi gwneud hynny, ac rydym wedi bod yn ôl ac ymlaen o ran cyngor cyfreithiol, ac rydym wedi dysgu o dros 50 o enghreifftiau o wledydd eraill o wahanol fathau o awdurdodaeth gyfreithiol lle y maen nhw wedi gwneud fersiwn o gael gwared ar yr amddiffyniad hwn ac wedi nodi’n glir mai ymosodiad yw ymosodiad yw ymosodiad. Rydym wedi gallu dysgu oddi wrth hynny. Ond, mae gennym ein lleoliad cyfreithiol ein hunain o fewn y wlad hon a’r paramedrau yr ydym yn gweithio oddi mewn iddynt, a’r cyngor clir, cryf iawn yr ydym yn ei gael yw mai’r ffordd gliriaf o wneud hyn yw cael gwared ar amddiffyniad cosb resymol a’r hyn sydd ar ôl, mewn gwirionedd, yw’r hyn sydd yno ar hyn o bryd o fewn y gyfraith, sef trosedd ymosodiad.

Ar gyfer trosedd ymosodiad, mae angen clirio rhai rhwystrau. Nid yw mor syml â, 'rwyf wedi gweld rhywun a oedd yn gwneud rhywbeth â'u plant ac rwy’n meddwl ei fod yn ymosodiad, roedd yn ddrwg.' Ceir profion tystiolaethol er mwyn i Wasanaeth Erlyn y Goron ddweud, mewn llys barn, 'Rydym yn meddwl bod tystiolaeth yma bod ymosodiad wedi digwydd.' Yn ail, mae angen iddo fod er budd y cyhoedd. Rhan o’r rhesymeg budd y cyhoedd y tu ôl i fwrw ymlaen â chyhuddiad—fel y mae ar hyn o bryd, gyda llaw, ym mhob maes, ac eithrio o ran plant—fyddai nid yn unig a yw er budd y cyhoedd, ond a oes siawns resymol o erlyniad llwyddiannus.

Byddwn yn ei chyfeirio hi ac Aelodau eraill at adran 9 yr ymgynghoriad, oherwydd, o fewn honno, mae'n edrych ar dystiolaeth ryngwladol, ond hefyd y dystiolaeth o lle y defnyddiwyd hyn mewn gwledydd eraill, gan gynnwys Seland Newydd, gyda model ychydig yn wahanol. Ydy, mae wedi arwain, yn y blynyddoedd cynnar, at gynnydd mewn riportio; mae wedi arwain at erlyniadau ar achlysur; mae hefyd wedi arwain at rybuddio a rhyddhau llawer o bobl, ac, wrth gwrs, yna mae’r niferoedd yn lleihau, oherwydd mae newid diwylliannol yn digwydd—fel gyda deddfau gwregysau diogelwch, fel gyda llawer o bethau eraill—lle mae pobl yn derbyn nad yw'n rhesymol mwyach i gosbi plentyn yn gorfforol, yn ddim gwahanol i unrhyw aelod arall o'r gymdeithas.

15:00

Thank you for the briefing that you afforded me yesterday, it was useful. I've been pleased to support these efforts in the past, as has Plaid Cymru, when we were campaigning for this—former Assembly Members such as Lindsay Whittle and many Assembly Members from across the political divide. I think it's crucial to state, from the outset, that I'm not in favour of punishing a parent for disciplining their child, and that's not what this change should be about, as has already been outlined. This is, and should be, first and foremost, the removal of a defence in court and under the law that allows someone who beats or abuses a child potentially to be acquitted under the guise of it being a reasonable use of force for a parent or guardian, and I don't think that's acceptable.

I understand this is a debate that can cause passions to rise—in fact, when I asked people on social media, I had more comments than I've ever had, in relation to this issue—as is any question that goes to the heart of the relationship between the people, the family and the state, and how far is too far for the state to go. But I think it's important to set out that, from my perspective, any law change should not and will not be to bring about persecution of anyone who disciplines their child in a moment of frustration or panic. I know that when a child moves towards a plug socket or tests patience and boundaries to the limit how difficult it is. There should be no desire to punish good parents or guardians, and I believe that the vast majority of parents and guardians have no wish to use physical punishment.

I do, however, believe that the Welsh Government must get this right, or the well-meaning law change does run the risk of being swept up by some reactionary elements that would like to paint what is, at heart, a well-meaning policy, and a long-overdue one, I should say, into something ugly and nefarious on behalf of authorities.

My first question, although I'm pleased with the Welsh Government, that you've come around on this issue, finally, is: what has changed between the last time we debated this issue in the previous Assembly term and now? It was the Welsh Government's prior position that a change to the law on reasonable punishment would not be viable, as it would be challenged as not only beyond our responsibilities as an Assembly, but also open to court challenge. Could you clarify what the legal position is now, for the record, and if there has been any substantial development that would mean that the Welsh Government now no longer considers this as a stumbling block?

It's important to know what this will mean in practice, also. We don't want the removal of reasonable punishment to be used for anything more than the removal of that defence in a case of child abuse or assault, and we must make sure that no court or element of law enforces uses of law change to channel an overzealous prosecution of something innocent. So, you mentioned earlier the public interest test. The de minimis rule, as well, is also pertinent. How will we be talking to the courts, the CPS and the police about how they would potentially use this, ongoing?

In the statement earlier, you outlined other reasons for this law change, such as promoting—and I quote what you said—'behavioural change' in parents. Could you clarify what behavioural change is necessary, and are you seeing that that behavioural change is something that is higher in Welsh society than it is elsewhere, or that it's a behavioural change that we all should acknowledge in ourselves? Because what I want to understand is that we're not only targeting certain families in certain areas of Wales, but we are saying that this is a general way of treating others in our society. I think I would be much more comfortable with that type of policy initiative than I would be to say that some families would be more culpable of this than others. You mentioned other countries, and I've also done some research with people I know in Sweden. Sweden's law, as far as I understand, doesn't come with a penalty. I asked one person who works in government in a municipality in Sweden, and they have 94,000 residents, but 200 youth workers, so that they can go into the homes via social workers, via youth workers, to try and talk about cultural and behavioural change. If this is your intention also, well, we may have to look into financial resource for this. So, how far have you got with this, or do you think that that is necessary at all?

One of my final questions is: are you satisfied, in order to effectively convey to the public that the existing law isn't enough, that there is a valid and warranted reason for the law change? I've also spoken to some people to say that this particular ruling is used so little in court that you haven't got enough statistics to compare it with, and it's very difficult to find trends from it. So, it would be useful to know, if we are going to change the law, that it is going to be meaningful.

My last point in this, because I listened to the debate in the last Assembly, although not taking part in it, is we always reference, in these debates, 'as a parent', and you somehow feel that parents are potentially more attuned to making laws in this area. But, having read a lot about this, it's not just parents that are responsible. It's parents and guardians, and foster carers, and other people in society. When my sister was born, I was 17 years old, turning into an adult. I looked after her quite a lot, and I was given that parental responsibility. So, I want to have this debate, not as something that nobody who isn't a parent can have a view on, but so that everybody in society can have a view on this and make a constructive contribution. Because, at the end of the day, we may be in situations where we're thrust into caring responsibilities beyond our control, and we need to know how to deal with children in those types of situations, but we need to know that the state and other people in society believe that we have the respect and the capability, I should say, of looking after children, just as parents do too.

Diolch am y briff a roesoch imi ddoe, roedd yn ddefnyddiol. Rwyf wedi bod falch o gefnogi’r ymdrechion hyn yn y gorffennol, fel y mae Plaid Cymru, pan oeddem yn ymgyrchu am hyn—cyn-Aelodau Cynulliad fel Lindsay Whittle a llawer o Aelodau Cynulliad o bob plaid wleidyddol. Rwy’n meddwl ei bod yn hollbwysig datgan, o'r cychwyn cyntaf, nad wyf o blaid cosbi rhieni am ddisgyblu eu plant, ac nad dyna ddylai fod diben y newid hwn, fel yr amlinellwyd eisoes. Mae hyn, a dylai hyn, yn bennaf oll, fod yn fater o gael gwared ar amddiffyniad yn y llys ac o dan y gyfraith sy’n caniatáu i rywun sy’n curo neu’n cam-drin plentyn efallai ei gael yn ddieuog o dan gochl ei bod yn rhesymol i riant neu warcheidwad ddefnyddio grym, ac nid wyf yn meddwl bod hynny’n dderbyniol.

Rwy’n deall bod hon yn ddadl y mae rhai pobl yn teimlo’n angerddol amdani—yn wir, pan ofynnais i bobl ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol, cefais fwy o sylwadau nag a gefais erioed, ynglŷn â’r mater hwn—fel unrhyw gwestiwn sy'n mynd at wraidd y berthynas rhwng y bobl, y teulu a'r wladwriaeth, a pha mor bell sy’n rhy bell i’r wladwriaeth fynd. Ond rwy’n meddwl ei bod yn bwysig nodi, o'm safbwynt i, na ddylai ac na fydd unrhyw newid yn y gyfraith er mwyn erlid rhywun sy’n disgyblu eu plentyn mewn eiliad o rwystredigaeth neu banig. Rwy’n gwybod, pan fydd plentyn yn symud tuag at soced plwg neu’n profi amynedd a ffiniau i'r eithaf, pa mor anodd yw hi. Ni ddylai fod dim awydd i gosbi rhieni neu warcheidwaid da, ac rwy’n credu nad oes gan y mwyafrif helaeth o rieni a gwarcheidwaid ddim dymuniad i ddefnyddio cosb gorfforol.

Fodd bynnag, rwy’n credu bod yn rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru wneud hyn yn iawn, neu y perygl yw y bydd rhai elfennau adweithiol yn neidio ar y newid i’r gyfraith, er ei fwriadau da, er mwyn cyfleu polisi sydd, yn ei hanfod, yn bolisi o fwriadau da, ac yn un hir-ddisgwyliedig, dylwn ddweud, fel rhywbeth hyll ac ysgeler ar ran awdurdodau.

Fy nghwestiwn cyntaf, er fy mod yn falch gyda Llywodraeth Cymru, eich bod wedi gweld y goleuni yn hyn o beth, o’r diwedd, yw: beth sydd wedi newid rhwng y tro diwethaf inni drafod y mater hwn yn ystod tymor blaenorol y Cynulliad a nawr? Safbwynt blaenorol Llywodraeth Cymru oedd na fyddai newid y gyfraith ar gosb resymol yn ddichonadwy, gan y byddai’n cael ei herio nid yn unig am ei fod y tu hwnt i'n cyfrifoldebau fel Cynulliad, ond ei fod hefyd yn agored i her mewn llys. A allech chi egluro beth yw’r sefyllfa gyfreithiol nawr, ar gyfer y cofnod, ac a fu unrhyw ddatblygiad sylweddol a fyddai'n golygu nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru bellach yn ystyried bod hyn yn rhwystr?

Mae'n bwysig gwybod beth y bydd hyn yn ei olygu’n ymarferol, hefyd. Nid ydym ni eisiau i gael gwared ar gosb resymol gael ei ddefnyddio ar gyfer dim mwy na dileu'r amddiffyniad hwnnw mewn achos o gam-drin neu ymosodiad ar blentyn, a rhaid inni wneud yn siŵr na fydd unrhyw lys nac elfen o gyfraith yn gorfodi defnyddio'r newid i’r gyfraith i sianelu erlyniad gorfrwdfrydig yn erbyn rhywbeth diniwed. Felly, soniasoch yn gynharach am brawf budd y cyhoedd. Mae’r rheol de minimis, yn ogystal, hefyd yn berthnasol. Sut byddwn yn siarad â'r llysoedd, Gwasanaeth Erlyn y Goron a'r heddlu ynghylch sut y byddent o bosibl yn defnyddio hyn, yn y dyfodol?

Yn y datganiad yn gynharach, gwnaethoch chi amlinellu rhesymau eraill dros y newid hwn i’r gyfraith, fel hyrwyddo—ac rwy’n dyfynnu’r hyn a ddywedasoch—'newid ymddygiad' mewn rhieni. A wnewch chi egluro pa newid ymddygiad sydd ei angen, ac a ydych chi'n gweld bod y newid ymddygiad hwnnw’n rhywbeth sydd yn uwch mewn cymdeithas yng Nghymru nag mewn mannau eraill, neu ei fod yn newid ymddygiad y dylem oll ei gydnabod ynom ein hunain? Oherwydd yr hyn yr hoffwn ei ddeall yw nad dim ond targedu rhai teuluoedd mewn rhai ardaloedd o Gymru yr ydym, ond dweud mai dyma ffordd gyffredinol o drin pobl eraill yn ein cymdeithas. Rwy’n meddwl y byddwn yn fwy cyfforddus o lawer gyda'r math hwnnw o fenter polisi nag y byddwn wrth ddweud y byddai rhai teuluoedd yn fwy euog o hyn nag eraill. Gwnaethoch chi sôn am wledydd eraill, ac rwyf finnau wedi gwneud rhywfaint o ymchwil gyda phobl yr wyf yn eu hadnabod yn Sweden. Cyn belled ag y deallaf, nid yw cyfraith Sweden yn dod gyda chosb. Gofynnais i un unigolyn sy'n gweithio yn y llywodraeth mewn bwrdeistref yn Sweden, ac mae ganddyn nhw 94,000 o drigolion, ond 200 o weithwyr ieuenctid, fel y gallant ddefnyddio gweithwyr cymdeithasol, gweithwyr ieuenctid, i fynd i mewn i'r cartrefi er mwyn ceisio siarad am newid diwylliant ac ymddygiad. Os yw hyn yn fwriad i chi hefyd, wel, efallai y bydd yn rhaid inni ystyried adnoddau ariannol ar gyfer hyn. Felly, pa mor bell ydych chi wedi mynd gyda hyn, neu a ydych chi'n meddwl bod angen hynny o gwbl?

Un o'm cwestiynau olaf yw: a ydych chi'n fodlon, er mwyn cyfleu’n effeithiol i'r cyhoedd nad yw’r gyfraith bresennol yn ddigon, bod rheswm dilys a chyfiawn dros newid y gyfraith? Rwyf hefyd wedi siarad â rhai pobl i ddweud bod y dyfarniad penodol hwn yn cael ei ddefnyddio mor anaml mewn llysoedd nes nad oes gennych ddigon o ystadegau i gymharu, ac mae'n anodd iawn canfod tueddiadau ohono. Felly, byddai'n ddefnyddiol gwybod, os ydym yn mynd i newid y gyfraith, y bydd yn ystyrlon.

Fy mhwynt olaf am hyn, oherwydd gwrandewais ar y ddadl yn y Cynulliad diwethaf, er na wnes gymryd rhan ynddi, yw ein bod bob amser yn dweud, yn y dadleuon hyn, 'fel rhiant', ac rydych yn teimlo rywsut bod rhieni o bosibl yn fwy cymwys i ddeddfu yn y maes hwn. Ond, ar ôl darllen llawer am hyn, nid dim ond rhieni sy'n gyfrifol. Mae rhieni a gwarcheidwaid, a gofalwyr maeth, a phobl eraill mewn cymdeithas yn gyfrifol. Pan aned fy chwaer, roeddwn yn 17 mlwydd oed, yn troi’n oedolyn. Edrychais ar ei hôl hi gryn dipyn, a chefais i’r cyfrifoldeb rhiant hwnnw. Felly, hoffwn gael y ddadl hon, nid fel rhywbeth na all neb sydd ddim yn rhiant fod â barn amdani, ond fel y gall pawb yn y gymdeithas fod â barn am hyn a gwneud cyfraniad adeiladol. Oherwydd, ar ddiwedd y dydd, efallai y byddwn mewn sefyllfaoedd lle caiff cyfrifoldebau gofalu eu rhoi inni y tu hwnt i'n rheolaeth, a bydd angen inni wybod sut i ymdrin â phlant yn y mathau hynny o sefyllfaoedd, ond mae angen inni wybod bod y wladwriaeth a phobl eraill mewn cymdeithas yn credu bod gennym y parch a’r gallu, dylwn ddweud, i edrych ar ôl plant, yn union fel rhieni.

15:05

Bethan, thank you very, very much for that indeed. I think many of the detailed issues that we're starting to touch on now we can get into as the consultation goes forward, but I'll try and answer some of them now as well, if it's of help. It's worth saying as well that, genuinely, I would like to engage with all Assembly Members of all parties on this, so that we do get this right in going forward, and that is a genuine offer. If I can do anything to help with those discussions, myself or my officials, I'm happy to make that offer.

You made the point about not punishing well-meaning parents. It's a similar point that Angela made as well. Absolutely right; entirely right. The balance of this, as we go through the consultation, has got to get to that point where we take away this defence of reasonable chastisement, which, to the best of my knowledge, has only had the possibility of being cited, actually, in the defence of cases over the last few years, probably a dozen times. Actually, it came down to four of them where it could actually have been used, and in those four cases, by and large, they ended up in acquittal or dismissal of the case. So, it is an anomalous situation that doesn't actually normally come to anything within a court of law, but it is an anomaly that sits there. When you speak to front-line professionals working in things like Flying Start, Families First, doing those interventions—good, clever, early interventions with parents—I've literally had this conversation with them and said, 'Is this clarity that we would give with this a problem for you, or would it help?' And, to a person, to a woman—because it's all women that I've spoken to who are doing these front-line interventions with families—they've said, 'This gives us the clarity that we would need.' So, in addition to the positive parenting, the help and advice and support that we give to parents, we can now say, 'Look, by the way, it is not physical punishment; there are other ways, and you know we can do that', and on we go. It is not to punish well-meaning parents, but it is to make absolutely clear that there will be no defence of reasonable chastisement.

Nothing changes, by the way, in terms of what penalties are out there. You mentioned the issue of penalties. The penalties remain as they are for assault, and the same evidential tests and public interest tests apply to assault. The Sentencing Council set the guidelines for assault. The Sentencing Council actually set separate guidelines that relate to assault on children. They also set separate guidelines that relate to assault on children by parents who are under 18. Those are all there. Nothing changes with that at all, but it takes away reasonable chastisement being used as a defence for assault against a child.

You asked, quite understandably, what has changed. I think there has been a period of pulling together evidence to show, one, that we can actually proceed and we can do it on a legally sound basis; but, secondly, gathering that world-wide evidence that now shows what works in terms of positive parenting, the negative impacts in aggregate across children who do receive physical punishment, and, also, legal advice as well—getting to that point where legal counsel can suggest—. By the way, I have to be quite honest: this is not that this would not be legally challenged, because it could well be. But, what we have to get right in terms of proportionality is that the rights of the child, which are universal and are unqualified rights under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, are also balanced against those articles of European rights that defend the rights of the family and the rights of religion. But, there is a way to do that because those two sets of rights—the latter two—are qualified rights. If you can show that the measures here are both necessary and proportionate, as we have done before in other policy areas, you can actually impact upon those qualified rights, if the rights of the child in protecting those children are there in the primary purpose.

Do we have evidence of behavioural change and attitudinal change? Yes. Again, I won't recite what's within the document, but I hope that all parents, and guardians and carers, as well as organisations, go and look at this document. We have tried to put in there quite a substantial amount of the best available knowledge that we have. But, yes, attitudes in Wales are changing and attitudes in the UK are changing. What’s significant is, where this approach has been taken in other countries, of actually making clear that you cannot physically or corporally assault a child, it has itself effected a change by the sheer significance of saying, 'No doubt, no ifs and buts.' It has effected a change itself, so that the attitudes towards corporal and physical punishment have changed as a result of introducing this law. It's a bit like the seat belts law or other laws like it.

Finally, you mentioned the point there of effective use of current resources. It's vital, to make this work, that we see what we are doing currently on the ground. Again, I won't recite it chapter and verse, but they are laid out in here: everything between health interventions, education interventions, Flying Start, Families First, Children First areas and so on. Are we making sure that, across the piste, we are giving the right support to the right parents and the right families in the right circumstances very early on, so that we actually avoid getting to the situation where children are being physically punished?

Thank you for the questions. I know we will return to more of these in detail as this goes through, but I would also invite Members to engage with me as this consultation goes forward, so I can hear more views like that.

Bethan, diolch yn fawr iawn am hynny yn wir. Rwy’n meddwl bod llawer o'r materion manwl yr ydym yn dechrau cyffwrdd arnyn nhw nawr yn rhai y gallwn roi mwy o sylw iddynt wrth i’r ymgynghoriad fwrw ymlaen, ond gwnaf geisio ateb rhai ohonyn nhw nawr hefyd, os yw o gymorth. Mae'n werth dweud hefyd, o ddifrif, yr hoffwn ymgysylltu â holl Aelodau'r Cynulliad o bob plaid ar hyn, fel ein bod yn cael hyn yn iawn ar gyfer y dyfodol, ac mae hwnnw'n gynnig diffuant. Os gallaf wneud unrhyw beth i helpu gyda'r trafodaethau hynny, fi neu fy swyddogion, rwy’n hapus i wneud y cynnig.

Gwnaethoch y pwynt ynghylch peidio â chosbi rhieni â bwriadau da. Gwnaeth Angela bwynt tebyg yn ogystal. Hollol gywir; cwbl gywir. Wrth inni fynd drwy'r ymgynghoriad, mae'n rhaid inni daro’r cydbwysedd o gael gwared ar yr amddiffyniad hwn o gosb resymol, sydd, hyd eithaf fy ngwybodaeth, ond wedi bod yn bosibl ei ddyfynnu, mewn gwirionedd, wrth amddiffyn achosion dros y rhai blynyddoedd diwethaf, fwy na thebyg ddwsin o weithiau. Mewn gwirionedd, yn y pen draw dim ond mewn pedwar ohonynt y gellid wir ei ddefnyddio, ac yn y pedwar achos hynny, ar y cyfan, cafwyd yr unigolyn yn ddieuog neu gwrthodwyd yr achos. Felly, mae'n sefyllfa anarferol nad yw wir fel arfer yn arwain at ddim byd mewn llys, ond mae'n sefyllfa anarferol sy’n bodoli. Pan fyddwch yn siarad â gweithwyr proffesiynol rheng flaen sy'n gweithio mewn pethau fel Dechrau'n Deg, Teuluoedd yn Gyntaf, yn gwneud yr ymyriadau hynny—ymyriadau cynnar, doeth, da gyda rhieni—rwyf yn llythrennol wedi cael y sgwrs hon â nhw a dweud, 'Ydy’r eglurder y byddem yn ei roi gyda hyn yn broblem ichi, ynteu a fyddai'n helpu?' Ac mae pob un, pob menyw—oherwydd menywod yw pawb yr wyf wedi siarad â nhw sy'n gwneud yr ymyriadau rheng flaen hyn gyda theuluoedd—wedi dweud, 'Mae hyn yn rhoi’r eglurder y byddai ei angen inni.' Felly, yn ogystal â’r rhianta cadarnhaol, y cymorth a’r cyngor a’r gefnogaeth yr ydym yn eu rhoi i rieni, gallwn nawr ddweud, 'Edrychwch, gyda llaw, nid cosbi corfforol yw hyn; mae yna ffyrdd eraill, ac rydych chi'n gwybod y gallwn wneud hynny', ac rydym yn mynd ymlaen. Nid er mwyn cosbi rhieni â bwriadau da, ond i’w gwneud yn gwbl glir na fydd amddiffyniad o gosb resymol.

Does dim byd yn newid, gyda llaw, o ran pa gosbau sydd ar gael. Soniasoch am fater cosbau. Mae’r cosbau yn aros fel y maent ar gyfer ymosodiad, ac mae'r un profion tystiolaethol a phrofion lles y cyhoedd yn gymwys i ymosodiad. Y Cyngor Dedfrydu sy’n gosod canllawiau ar gyfer ymosodiad. Mae'r Cyngor Dedfrydu, a dweud y gwir, yn gosod canllawiau ar wahân sy'n ymwneud ag ymosodiad ar blant. Maent hefyd yn gosod canllawiau ar wahân sy'n ymwneud ag ymosodiad ar blant gan rieni sydd o dan 18 oed. Mae'r rheini i gyd yno. Does dim o hynny’n newid o gwbl, ond mae'n cael gwared ar ddefnyddio cosb resymol fel amddiffyniad am ymosodiadau yn erbyn plentyn.

Gwnaethoch chi ofyn, yn hollol ddealladwy, beth sydd wedi newid. Rwy’n meddwl ein bod wedi cael cyfnod o gasglu tystiolaeth i ddangos, un, y gallwn fwrw ymlaen mewn gwirionedd ac y gallwn wneud hynny ar sail gyfreithiol gadarn; ond, yn ail, casglu’r dystiolaeth fyd-eang honno sydd nawr yn dangos beth sy'n gweithio o ran rhianta cadarnhaol, yr effeithiau negyddol cyfanredol ar draws plant sy’n cael cosbau corfforol, a, hefyd, cyngor cyfreithiol hefyd—cyrraedd y pwynt lle gall cyngor cyfreithiol awgrymu—. Gyda llaw, rhaid imi fod yn hollol onest: nid wyf yn dweud na chaiff hyn ei herio’n gyfreithiol, oherwydd gallai hynny ddigwydd. Ond, yr hyn y mae’n rhaid inni ei wneud yn iawn o ran cymesuredd yw bod hawliau plant, sydd yn hawliau cyffredinol a diamod o dan Gonfensiwn y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar hawliau'r plentyn, yn cael eu cydbwyso hefyd yn erbyn yr erthyglau hawliau Ewropeaidd hynny sy'n amddiffyn hawliau’r teulu a hawliau crefydd. Ond, mae ffordd o wneud hynny oherwydd mae’r ddwy gyfres hynny o hawliau—y ddwy olaf—yn hawliau amodol. Os gallwch chi ddangos bod y mesurau hyn yn angenrheidiol ac yn gymesur, fel yr rydym wedi'i wneud cyn hyn mewn meysydd polisi eraill, gallwch wir effeithio ar yr hawliau amodol hynny, os yw hawliau plant o ran amddiffyn y plant hynny yno o fewn y prif ddiben.

A oes gennym dystiolaeth o newid agweddau a newid ymddygiad? Oes. Unwaith eto, ni wnaf adrodd yr hyn sydd yn y ddogfen, ond rwy’n gobeithio y bydd pob rhiant, a phob gwarcheidwad a phob gofalwr, yn ogystal â sefydliadau, yn edrych ar y ddogfen hon. Rydym wedi ceisio rhoi cryn dipyn o’r wybodaeth orau sydd ar gael inni ynddi. Ond, ydynt, mae agweddau yng Nghymru’n newid ac mae agweddau yn y DU yn newid. Yr hyn sy'n arwyddocaol yw, lle mae'r dull hwn wedi’i ddefnyddio mewn gwledydd eraill, i’w gwneud yn glir na chewch chi ymosod yn gorfforol ar blentyn, bod hynny ynddo ei hun wedi creu newid oherwydd arwyddocâd pur dweud, 'Dim amheuaeth, dim os nac oni bai.' Mae wedi creu newid ynddo ei hun; mae’r agweddau tuag at gosb gorfforol wedi newid o ganlyniad i gyflwyno'r gyfraith hon. Mae ychydig yn debyg i’r gyfraith gwregysau diogelwch neu gyfreithiau eraill tebyg.

Yn olaf, soniasoch am y pwynt yno o ddefnyddio’r adnoddau presennol yn effeithiol. Mae'n hanfodol, i wneud i hyn weithio, ein bod yn gweld beth yr ydym yn ei wneud ar hyn o bryd ar lawr gwlad. Unwaith eto, ni wnaf ei adrodd fesul pennod ac adnod, ond maent wedi'u gosod allan yma: popeth rhwng ymyriadau iechyd, ymyriadau addysg, Dechrau'n Deg, Teuluoedd yn Gyntaf, ardaloedd Plant yn Gyntaf ac ati. A ydym yn gwneud yn siŵr, ar draws y sector, ein bod yn rhoi’r cymorth cywir i’r rhieni cywir a’r teuluoedd cywir o dan yr amgylchiadau cywir yn gynnar iawn, fel ein bod yn osgoi cyrraedd y sefyllfa lle mae plant yn cael eu cosbi’n gorfforol?

Diolch am y cwestiynau. Rwy’n gwybod y byddwn yn dychwelyd at fwy o'r rhain yn fanwl wrth fwrw ymlaen â hyn, ond hoffwn hefyd wahodd Aelodau i ymgysylltu â mi wrth i’r ymgynghoriad hwn fwrw ymlaen, fel y gallaf glywed mwy o safbwyntiau fel hwnnw.

15:10

May I first of all say how much I welcome this consultation and congratulate the Minister for bringing it out as one of, almost, his first actions on taking up the post? The Minister mentioned that I had been involved in this for a long time as an MP. We also have Simon Thomas, who was also involved in it as an MP, and I was remembering when we went to Stockholm as a group, where Jane Hutt came as well, as well as Christine Chapman, and maybe others—I can't remember now. I think, in politics, you learn that you have to have a long game. I suppose that is my conclusion over most issues I've ever been involved with. But, still, I really welcome this.

I wanted to just ask a few brief questions, because I'm aware we'll have all the detailed discussion when we're in committee. But, obviously, the Scottish Government is going through the same process almost at the same time as us, so I wondered whether you’d had any communication with the Scottish Government and whether you’ve learned from what they’ve been able to do so far. The other question was: in terms of a timetable, I know this is a 12-week consultation—what is the timetable for the legislation after that?

I think you have said that we will look further at the change of attitude that has happened amongst parents, which I think is there in the consultation document. Have you had any opportunity to look at how children view this issue? Because I think that is quite an important thing to look at. I think there have been some studies done that show children’s views, but I think that is something that we should certainly do as part of this consultation, especially in view of the fact that children do have less protection than adults under the law as it stands at the present time.

The final question, then, is to ask you, as—you know, you clearly see this as part of a package of children’s rights, and I know the UNCRC has urged the Welsh Government and the UK Government to do this on many occasions, so I’m sure you would see this as the opportunity for being fully compliant with the UNCRC, which, of course, we are fully signed up to.

A gaf i yn gyntaf oll ddweud cymaint yr wyf yn croesawu'r ymgynghoriad hwn a llongyfarch y Gweinidog am ei gyflwyno fel un o, bron, ei weithredoedd cyntaf ar ôl cymryd y swydd? Dywedodd y Gweinidog fy mod i wedi ymwneud â hyn ers amser maith fel AS. Mae gennym hefyd Simon Thomas, a fu hefyd yn ymwneud â hyn fel AS, ac roeddwn yn cofio pan aethom i Stockholm fel grŵp, a daeth Jane Hutt hefyd, yn ogystal â Christine Chapman, ac eraill efallai—ni allaf gofio nawr. Rwy’n meddwl, mewn gwleidyddiaeth, eich bod yn dysgu bod angen strategaeth hir arnoch chi. Mae'n debyg mai dyna yw fy nghasgliad ynglŷn â’r rhan fwyaf o faterion yr wyf erioed wedi ymwneud â nhw. Ond, eto, rwyf wir yn croesawu hyn.

Dim ond rhai cwestiynau byr sydd gennyf i’w gofyn, oherwydd rwy’n gwybod y cawn yr holl drafodaeth fanwl pan fyddwn mewn pwyllgor. Ond, yn amlwg, mae Llywodraeth yr Alban yn mynd drwy'r un broses bron ar yr un pryd â ni, felly tybed a ydych chi wedi cyfathrebu o gwbl â Llywodraeth yr Alban ac a ydych chi wedi dysgu o’r hyn y maen nhw wedi llwyddo i'w wneud hyd yn hyn. Y cwestiwn arall oedd: o ran amserlen, rwy’n gwybod mai ymgynghoriad 12 wythnos yw hwn—beth yw'r amserlen ar gyfer y ddeddfwriaeth ar ôl hynny?

Rwy’n meddwl eich bod wedi dweud y byddwn yn edrych eto ar y newid agwedd sydd wedi digwydd ymysg rhieni; rwy’n meddwl bod hynny yno yn y ddogfen ymgynghori. A ydych chi wedi cael unrhyw gyfle i edrych ar sut y mae plant yn gweld y mater hwn? Oherwydd rwy’n meddwl bod hwnnw’n beth eithaf pwysig i edrych arno. Rwy’n meddwl bod rhai astudiaethau wedi cael eu gwneud i ddangos barn plant, ond rwy’n meddwl bod hynny'n rhywbeth y dylem yn sicr ei wneud fel rhan o'r ymgynghoriad hwn, yn enwedig o ystyried y ffaith nad yw plant yn cael eu hamddiffyn cystal ag oedolion o dan y gyfraith fel y mae ar hyn o bryd.

Y cwestiwn olaf, wedyn, yw gofyn i chi, gan—wyddoch chi, rydych chi'n amlwg yn gweld hyn fel rhan o becyn o hawliau plant, ac rwy’n gwybod bod CCUHP wedi annog Llywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU i wneud hyn ar sawl achlysur, felly rwy’n siŵr y byddech chi'n gweld hyn fel y cyfle i gydymffurfio'n llawn â CCUHP, sydd, wrth gwrs, yn rhywbeth yr ydym wedi ymrwymo’n llawn iddo.

15:15

Julie, can I thank you very much for those questions, but also quite genuinely thank you and others over the years who've campaigned on this long and hard? I know it has been like Sisyphus pushing the rock continually uphill and then seeing it roll back for the following morning. But I think we are now getting there, and that is good to see. And that brings me to—. If I can deal with first your question over the legislation, if it is the will of this Assembly to pass this legislative change and to make sure that we have the right package in place and the resource is being used well then we could move ahead on this in short order, in possibly the third term of the Assembly. Now, this is subject to the business managers granting that and so on, and it being a priority, but I have no doubt that if the Assembly were to strongly support this—and the Cabinet, I know, are keen to see this moved forward—then we could see it as early as the third term.

You mentioned the Scottish Government proposal—indeed, and it has been mentioned to me, 'Wouldn’t it be nice if Wales could get there first, just ahead of Scotland?' But, look, one of the advantages of—. It would be nice to get there before Scotland, but there is a private Member’s Bill being used as the vehicle in Scotland, but it's actually probably more important to get there in the right way and to have the right piece of legislation in front of us. There is an advantage, possibly, to coming slightly behind Scotland, in that theirs, of all the countries that we’ve looked at, is the most similar in terms of its criminal jurisdiction and its body of case law. In fact, if we looked at some of what they are learning at the moment, it might help us in devising this and minimising, I have to say as well, the chance of a legal challenge being successful against it. However, we are in close liaison with officials and I look forward to speaking to my contemporaries in the Scottish Parliament as well and the Scottish Government to discuss in detail their proposals and their timescale.

Julie, you mentioned the issue of how children view physical punishment. We refer to some of that, I hope helpfully, within the document. There is a fair degree of evidence now that children—it’s not hard to understand why—are quite savvy and quite cogent in their articulation—different ages of children as well—on the fact that they see physical punishment not simply as unnecessary and so on, but actually detrimental in the impacts that it has on them, not only physically, but emotionally, and the relationship with carers, the relationship with guardians, and with parents, whereas they're also quite articulate in saying they recognise that the best way to impose discipline and to drive good behaviour is in that more positive approach to recognising good behaviour, rewarding and encouraging, and setting clear boundaries. There are ways to discipline that don't require physical punishment.

And, finally, in respect of the UNCRC, I think it is the case that we are quite clear that, in terms of previous legislation we have brought through this place that have regard to the UNCRC, this would be a piece of legislation, together with the wider package, that would put Wales into a leading position, not only satisfying the requirements of the UNCRC, but leading once again in terms of how we deal with children's rights and protect those children's rights. So, we look forward to the consultation and the views that come forward, but we are keen to progress with this.

Julie, a gaf i ddiolch yn fawr ichi am y cwestiynau hynny, ond hefyd ddiolch yn gwbl ddiffuant i chi ac eraill dros y blynyddoedd sydd wedi ymgyrchu ar hyn yn hir ac yn galed? Rwy’n gwybod bod y broses wedi bod fel Sisyphus yn gwthio’r graig yn barhaus i fyny’r rhiw ac yna’n ei gweld yn rholio’n ôl ar gyfer y bore wedyn. Ond rwy’n meddwl ein bod yn agos nawr, ac mae hynny'n dda i’w weld. Ac mae hynny’n dod â mi at—. Os caf i ymdrin yn gyntaf â’ch cwestiwn am y ddeddfwriaeth, os mai ewyllys y Cynulliad hwn yw pasio’r newid deddfwriaethol hwn a gwneud yn siŵr bod y pecyn cywir ar waith gennym a bod yr adnodd yn cael ei ddefnyddio’n dda, gallem symud ymlaen ar hyn yn gyflym, o bosibl o fewn trydydd tymor y Cynulliad. Nawr, mae hyn yn amodol ar i'r rheolwyr busnes ganiatáu hynny ac ati, a’i fod yn flaenoriaeth, ond nid wyf yn amau, pe bai'r Cynulliad yn cefnogi hyn yn gryf—ac mae'r Cabinet, rwy’n gwybod, yn awyddus i weld hyn yn symud ymlaen—gallem ei weld mor gynnar â’r trydydd tymor.

Soniasoch am cynnig Llywodraeth yr Alban—yn wir, ac mae pobl wedi gofyn imi, 'oni fyddai'n braf pe gallai Cymru gyrraedd yno yn gyntaf, cyn yr Alban?' Ond, edrychwch, un o fanteision—. Byddai'n braf cyrraedd yno cyn yr Alban, ond Bil Aelod preifat sy'n cael ei defnyddio fel cyfrwng yn yr Alban, ond y gwir yw ei bod, yn ôl pob tebyg, yn bwysicach cyrraedd yno yn y ffordd gywir a gwneud yn siŵr bod y darn cywir o ddeddfwriaeth ger ein bron. Gallai fod yn fantais, o bosibl, cyrraedd ychydig ar ôl yr Alban, oherwydd hi, o’r holl wledydd yr ydym wedi edrych arnyn nhw, yw’r debycaf o ran ei hawdurdodaeth droseddol a’i chorff o gyfraith achos. Yn wir, pe byddem yn edrych ar rai o'r pethau y maen nhw yn eu dysgu ar hyn o bryd, gallai ein helpu i lunio hyn a lleihau, rhaid imi ddweud hefyd, y siawns y gallai her gyfreithiol lwyddo yn ei erbyn. Fodd bynnag, rydym yn cydweithio'n agos â swyddogion ac rwy’n edrych ymlaen at siarad â'm cymheiriaid yn Senedd yr Alban hefyd a Llywodraeth yr Alban i drafod eu cynigion a'u hamserlen yn fanwl.

Julie, soniasoch am sut y mae plant yn gweld cosbau corfforol. Rydym yn cyfeirio at rywfaint o hynny, yn ddefnyddiol gobeithio, yn y ddogfen. Ceir cryn dipyn o dystiolaeth bellach bod y plant—nid yw'n anodd deall pam—yn eithaf clyfar ac yn gallu mynegi’n effeithiol—plant o wahanol oedrannau hefyd—y ffaith eu bod nid yn unig yn gweld cosbau corfforol yn ddiangen ac ati, ond yn wirioneddol niweidiol o ran sut y maent yn effeithio arnynt, nid yn unig yn gorfforol, ond yn emosiynol, ac ar y berthynas â gofalwyr, y berthynas â gwarcheidwaid, ac â rhieni, ond maent hefyd yn eithaf clir wrth ddweud eu bod yn cydnabod mai’r ffordd orau o ddisgyblu a sbarduno ymddygiad da yw’r dull gweithredu mwy cadarnhaol hwnnw o gydnabod ymddygiad da, gwobrwyo ac annog, a gosod ffiniau clir. Mae yna ffyrdd o ddisgyblu heb fod angen cosbi corfforol.

Ac, yn olaf, o ran CCUHP, rwy’n meddwl ein bod yn ddigon clir, o ran deddfwriaeth flaenorol yr ydym wedi’i chyflwyno drwy'r lle hwn sy’n berthnasol i CCUHP, y byddai hwn yn ddarn o ddeddfwriaeth, ynghyd â phecyn ehangach, a fyddai’n rhoi Cymru ar flaen y gad, nid yn unig o ran bodloni gofynion y Confensiwn, ond ar flaen y gad unwaith eto o ran sut yr ydym yn ymdrin â hawliau plant ac yn amddiffyn yr hawliau plant hynny. Felly, rydym yn edrych ymlaen at yr ymgynghoriad a'r safbwyntiau a gyflwynir, ond rydym yn awyddus i fwrw ymlaen â hyn.

15:20

I would also like to thank the Minister for taking the time to contact me yesterday, discuss things with me, and provide me with a statement this morning. It is appreciated that, while we are in the consultation stages of this subject and the legislation is not yet implemented, the proposed legislation is referred to as removing the defence of reasonable chastisement. In simpler terms, the general public will know that this is called a smacking ban, simply. During consultation, it is important that we reach as wide an audience as possible, because this subject is one of a controversial nature, and, obviously, a delicate one. There are many issues here to consider prior to a ban being implemented. We've got to ask ourselves: is the state extending its claws into family life—you know, how far we are prepared to go with this? And what would the effectiveness of the ban be?

We all agree that we must encourage positive parenting. I looked after two children for many years and never once did I smack them. They weren't my children. It was a very long time I looked after them permanently for, but things worked out for us without any smacking at all. Children's rights are important, but I looked at the quotations of two mothers regarding a smacking ban—both of whom disagreed with it—and one said: 'There is a difference between disciplining a child and abusing them. Parenting these days is far too soft, which is the reason we have people running around the street without any regard for authority. I feel sorry for teachers. The pupils now control the teacher. Teachers can't do anything to discipline the children, and, in the majority of cases, incentives simply do not work and teachers cannot do things and a lot of parents don't think that this is good enough.'

So, it's open to consultation, and, you know, I'm just saying the views of other people. Everyone has a right for their views to be heard. This is what I'm saying—a quotation from someone else—and they have every right to put that quotation forward.

When we talk about the effectiveness of such a ban, I'd like to ask how it will be implemented, how it will be enforced, how will the cost be borne—you know, what will it cost? And a second parent's view also stated that she thought that people advocating the ban want us to treat children as mini adults, as people that you can reason with, but sometimes you can't reason with children. Children don't always know their own mind and are prone to pushing boundaries. And they've asked, 'If they ban smacking, can you please provide us with solutions? Grounding, taking away privileges, are mostly ineffective.' She then went on to say, 'People of my generation were smacked and I felt that we were well adjusted as opposed to some of the younger generation now.' And she said, 'My first child was smacked. A disciplinary smack is not a beating, and, by the time my second child was growing up, there was much media opposition to smacking, so the second child was not smacked. She was placed on the naughty step, and this had no effect whatsoever; grounding was exactly the same. So, in terms of how they turned out, the first was a lot more respectful towards any kind of authority than was the second. Two teachers who I know couldn't wait to move to Dubai to teach because, in their own words, "Regarding discipline, there is no comparison. In Dubai, we can do what we are paid to do, and that is to teach. There are very few discipline issues here, but, unfortunately, Wales has lost it. We have no intention of returning. We are teaching, and the children are learning. It is a win-win situation".'

So, our work as politicians is to help parents become the best parents that they can. We encourage and nurture a way of life, perhaps, as opposed to banning, and abuse must be dealt with when recognised and punished by law. It is parents who live with their children 24/7 and we must understand and respect their rights also to reprimand, within reason, the children they bring into the world. Thank you.

Hoffwn hefyd ddiolch i'r Gweinidog am gymryd yr amser i gysylltu â mi ddoe, i drafod pethau â mi, ac i roi datganiad imi y bore yma. Rwy’n gwerthfawrogi, tra yr ydym yn y camau ymgynghori ar y pwnc hwn ac nad yw y ddeddfwriaeth ar waith eto, ei fod yn cyfeirio at y ddeddfwriaeth arfaethedig fel un sy’n dileu amddiffyniad cosb resymol. Mewn termau symlach, bydd y cyhoedd yn gyffredinol yn gwybod y gelwir hyn yn waharddiad ar smacio, yn syml. Yn ystod ymgynghoriad, mae'n bwysig ein bod yn cyrraedd cynulleidfa mor eang â phosibl, oherwydd mae'r pwnc hwn yn un dadleuol, ac, yn amlwg, yn un sensitif. Mae llawer o faterion i'w hystyried yma cyn rhoi gwaharddiad ar waith. Rhaid inni ofyn i ni'n hunain: a yw’r wladwriaeth yn ymestyn ei chrafangau i fywyd y teulu—wyddoch chi, pa mor bell yr ydym ni'n barod i fynd â hyn? A pha mor effeithiol fyddai’r gwaharddiad?

Rydym i gyd yn cytuno bod rhaid inni annog rhianta cadarnhaol. Edrychais ar ôl dau o blant am flynyddoedd lawer ac ni wnes i eu smacio unwaith. Nid fy mhlant i oedden nhw. Roeddwn i'n gofalu amdanyn nhw yn barhaol am amser hir iawn, ond gweithiodd pethau’n iawn inni heb ddim smacio o gwbl. Mae hawliau plant yn bwysig, ond edrychais ar ddyfyniadau dwy fam ynghylch gwahardd smacio—roedd y ddwy ohonynt yn anghytuno ag ef—a dywedodd un: 'Mae gwahaniaeth rhwng disgyblu plant a’u cam-drin. Mae rhianta y dyddiau hyn yn llawer rhy feddal, a dyna pam mae gennym bobl yn rhedeg o amgylch y stryd heb ddim parch i awdurdod. Rwy’n teimlo dros athrawon. Y disgyblion sy’n rheoli’r athro nawr. Chaiff athrawon ddim gwneud dim byd i ddisgyblu’r plant, ac, yn y mwyafrif o achosion, dydy’r cymhellion ddim yn gweithio a dydy athrawon ddim yn cael gwneud pethau ac mae llawer o rieni’n meddwl nad yw hyn yn ddigon da.'

Felly, mae'n agored i ymgynghoriad, ac, wyddoch chi, dim ond dweud barn pobl eraill yr wyf fi. Mae gan bawb hawl i’w safbwyntiau gael eu clywed. Dyma'r hyn yr wyf i'n ei ddweud—dyfyniad gan rywun arall—ac mae ganddyn nhw bob hawl i gyflwyno’r dyfyniad hwnnw.

Wrth inni sôn am effeithiolrwydd gwaharddiad o'r fath, hoffwn ofyn sut y caiff ei roi ar waith, sut y caiff ei orfodi, sut y byddwn yn ysgwyddo’r gost—wyddoch chi, beth fydd yn ei gostio? A dywedodd ail riant hefyd ei bod yn meddwl bod pobl sydd o blaid y gwaharddiad eisiau inni drin plant fel oedolion bach, fel pobl y gallwch chi resymu â nhw, ond weithiau allwch chi ddim rhesymu â phlant. Dydy plant ddim bob amser yn deall eu meddyliau eu hunain ac maen nhw'n tueddu i wthio ffiniau. Ac maen nhw wedi gofyn, 'os ydyn nhw’n gwahardd smacio, a allwch chi roi datrysiadau inni? Mae eu cadw nhw yn y tŷ, neu gymryd breintiau oddi arnyn nhw, yn aneffeithiol ar y cyfan.' Yna aeth ymlaen i ddweud, 'Roedd pobl o fy nghenhedlaeth i’n cael eu smacio ac roeddwn i'n teimlo ein bod ni’n dipyn mwy cytbwys na rhai o'r genhedlaeth iau nawr.' A dywedodd hi, 'Roedd fy mhlentyn cyntaf yn cael ei smacio. Dydy smacio i ddisgyblu ddim yn golygu crasfa, ac, erbyn yr adeg pan oedd fy ail blentyn yn tyfu i fyny, roedd llawer o wrthwynebiad yn y cyfryngau i smacio, felly ni chafodd yr ail blentyn ei smacio. Cafodd hi ei rhoi ar y stepen ddrwg, ac ni chafodd hyn ddim effaith o gwbl; roedd ei chadw yn y tŷ yn union yr un fath. Felly, o ran y canlyniadau, roedd y cyntaf yn dangos llawer mwy o barch tuag at unrhyw fath o awdurdod na’r ail. Roedd dau o athrawon yr wyf yn eu hadnabod yn methu aros i symud i Dubai i addysgu oherwydd, yn eu geiriau eu hunain, "O ran disgyblaeth, does dim cymhariaeth. Yn Dubai, gallwn ni wneud yr hyn yr ydym ni'n cael ein talu i’w wneud, sef addysgu. Ychydig iawn o faterion disgyblu sydd yma, ond, yn anffodus, mae Cymru ar goll. Nid oes gennym ddim bwriad i ddychwelyd. Rydym yn addysgu, ac mae’r plant yn dysgu. Mae pawb yn ennill".'

Felly, ein gwaith ni fel gwleidyddion yw helpu rhieni i fod y rhieni gorau posibl. Rydym yn annog ac yn meithrin ffordd o fyw, efallai, yn hytrach na gwahardd, a rhaid ymdrin â cham-drin pan gaiff ei gydnabod a’i gosbi gan y gyfraith. Rhieni sy'n byw gyda'u plant 24/7 a rhaid inni ddeall a pharchu eu hawliau hefyd i geryddu, o fewn rheswm, y plant y maen nhw'n dod â nhw i'r byd. Diolch.

15:25

Caroline, thank you very much. I think this illustrates why in the 12-week consultation we do want to get all views into this, but without being under any misapprehension that the intention here is to remove the defence of reasonable chastisement. Now, again, in referring to the document, which we've put a lot of time into—in the consultation document, it does refer to what has happened in other countries and it has not led to queues of parents and guardians outside courts waiting to be prosecuted; it hasn't led to baskets of prosecutions. It has led, by the way, to things such as a spike within the first couple of years of more reporting, but that hasn't led to endless prosecutions. It's been assessed that that has as much to do with the awareness within society of the effect of legislation like this that, suddenly, it is not actually the best way to discipline a child, to use physical punishment.

But there will be a wide variety of views that are fed in on this. I would draw, Caroline, your attention to page 21 of the document, where it looks at some of the studies around attitudes towards punishing children. Back in 1998, the Department of Health did a study of 2,000 British adults—88 per cent of parents then at that point said, 'It is sometimes necessary to smack naughty children.' November 2015, Welsh Government survey: 24 per cent of parents agreed it's sometimes necessary to smack a naughty child. Things are moving: I speak to people who tell me this. If you've seen the vox pops over the last couple of days of parents, they say that, 'What my parents felt was normal is not the same as what their grandparents felt' and so on. That's not to say, by the way, that they were bad parents; they weren't, at all. But society moves, we move with it, and sometimes our legislation needs to catch up with exactly what's happening and make it clear, as well, I have to say, for somebody in a court of law, exactly what's acceptable and what isn't.

You mentioned the issue of costs. I'm sure there will be lots of submissions during the course of this consultation on that wider package of support. There won't be any additional cost here that we foresee in terms of courts or prosecutions or so on, because the evidence doesn't show that that happens, but there might be suggestions put forward in terms of where the resources are deployed in terms of parental support or social care et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, and we'll look forward to receiving those.

And, finally, you made the point, as others did, about getting this to as wide an audience as possible. I forgot to mention, Angela, and others, in response, that, as we're speaking, the consultation has gone live on the website and it is a good and easy consultation to respond to, and I would encourage Members to advertise this to their constituents within their regular newsletters and so on to make sure that people do put their views in. Whether they are a parent or not, they will have a view on this. So, put their views in. Thank you.

Caroline, diolch yn fawr iawn. Rwy’n meddwl bod hyn yn dangos pam, yn yr ymgynghoriad 12-wythnos, yr hoffem ni gael pob barn i mewn i hyn, ond heb fod dan unrhyw gamargraff mai’r bwriad yma yw cael gwared ar amddiffyniad cosb resymol. Nawr, unwaith eto, i gyfeirio at y ddogfen, yr ydym wedi treulio llawer o amser arni—yn y ddogfen ymgynghori, mae’n cyfeirio at yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd mewn gwledydd eraill ac nid yw wedi arwain at giwiau o rieni a gwarcheidwaid y tu allan i lysoedd yn aros i gael eu herlyn; nid yw wedi arwain at fasgedi o erlyniadau. Mae wedi arwain, gyda llaw, at bethau fel cynnydd sydyn yn y cwpl o flynyddoedd cyntaf o fwy o riportio, ond nid yw hynny wedi arwain at erlyniadau diddiwedd. Yr asesiad yw bod gan hynny gymaint i'w wneud â’r ymwybyddiaeth o fewn cymdeithas mai effaith deddfwriaeth fel hyn, yn sydyn, yw nad dyna’r ffordd orau o ddisgyblu plentyn, mewn gwirionedd, defnyddio cosb gorfforol.

Ond bydd amrywiaeth eang o safbwyntiau’n cyfrannu at hyn. Byddwn yn tynnu, Caroline, eich sylw at dudalen 21 y ddogfen, sy’n edrych ar rai o'r astudiaethau ynghylch agweddau tuag at gosbi plant. Yn ôl yn 1998, gwnaeth yr Adran Iechyd astudiaeth o 2,000 o oedolion ym Mhrydain—ar yr adeg honno, dywedodd 88 y cant o rieni, 'Weithiau mae angen smacio plant drwg.' Tachwedd 2015, arolwg Llywodraeth Cymru: cytunodd 24 y cant o rieni fod angen smacio plant drwg weithiau. Mae pethau’n symud: rwy’n siarad â phobl sy'n dweud hyn wrthyf. Os ydych chi wedi gweld yr arolygon o farn rhieni dros yr ychydig ddyddiau diwethaf, maen nhw'n dweud, 'Dydy’r hyn yr oedd fy rhieni’n meddwl ei fod yn normal ddim yr un fath â’r hyn yr oedd eu neiniau a’u teidiau’n nhw yn ei feddwl' ac ati. Nid yw hynny’n golygu, gyda llaw, eu bod yn rhieni gwael; doedden nhw ddim, o gwbl. Ond mae cymdeithas yn symud, rydyn ni’n symud gyda hi, ac weithiau mae angen i’n deddfwriaeth ddal i fyny â beth yn union sy'n digwydd a’i gwneud yn glir, hefyd, rhaid imi ddweud, i rywun mewn llys, beth yn union sy'n dderbyniol a beth sydd ddim.

Soniasoch chi am gostau. Rwy’n siŵr y bydd llawer o gyflwyniadau yn ystod yr ymgynghoriad hwn ar y pecyn ehangach hwnnw o gefnogaeth. Nid ydym ni'n rhagweld unrhyw gost ychwanegol yma o ran llysoedd neu erlyniadau ac ati, oherwydd dydy’r dystiolaeth ddim yn dangos bod hynny'n digwydd, ond efallai y caiff awgrymiadau eu cyflwyno o ran ble i ddefnyddio’r adnoddau o ran cymorth i rieni neu ofal cymdeithasol ac ati, ac ati, ac ati, a byddwn yn edrych ymlaen at gael y rheini.

Ac, yn olaf, gwnaethoch chi y pwynt, fel y gwnaeth eraill, am ledaenu hyn i gynulleidfa mor eang â phosibl. Anghofiais ddweud, Angela, ac eraill, wrth ymateb, bod yr ymgynghoriad, wrth inni siarad, wedi mynd yn fyw ar y wefan a’i fod yn ymgynghoriad da a hawdd i ymateb iddo, a byddwn yn annog Aelodau i hysbysebu hyn i'w hetholwyr yn eu cylchlythyrau rheolaidd ac ati i wneud yn siŵr bod pobl yn rhoi eu barn. P'un a ydynt yn rhiant neu beidio, bydd ganddyn nhw farn am hyn. Felly, gallan nhw roi eu barn. Diolch.

Can I say that this consultation and the national debate it's now going to spark, I hope, is highly welcome? I'm the only Conservative Assembly Member that has served in all the Assemblies so far. This is the fifth, and, in the first one, we did actually debate this issue of physical chastisement of children on a motion I think that was proposed by Christine Chapman and there were nine Conservatives in the Assembly then, and three of us voted for that motion. So, there has been cross-party support for this and there have been, obviously, people from all across the parties who feel the defence should be retained. I think what's vital is that we have this debate in the context of promoting the most positive parenting and an environment in which our children are allowed to flourish. One of the concerns we do need to remember is that it's much less the de minimis smacking, so called, that goes on in a culture that allows that, however minor the physical assault is. There is then a certain acceptability of the use of physical force, which can get way out of control, and those sorts of abuses may well be more preventable in a culture that says, 'The law here is very, very clear'. And I think we need to be minded of those children that are vulnerable to real physical harm sometimes, although I completely accept that that's way beyond anything that the vast majority of parents would regard as being remotely reasonable. 

Can I end by saying that we unfortunately have to face this debate as a question of criminal law? And I don't think that's helpful. I think it's much better to talk about the lawfulness of something, and, if we change the law, it's much better to say that physical chastisement is no longer lawful, and where it occurs, you would expect an intervention, but in the vast majority of cases, it will be informal and way below any criminal proceedings. That's my understanding of what's happened internationally, and that's what we should be encouraging. I do commend the Welsh Government for now taking this forward, and I'm sure that we will have a very extensive conversation with the people of Wales that we serve. There'll be many opinions, and Caroline is quite right to express the opinion of those who have a different view, but I think we need a full and proper debate. In my view, 20 years ago, I felt that it was time to move on, but I certainly think it is now. 

A gaf ddweud bod yr ymgynghoriad hwn a'r ddadl genedlaethol y bydd nawr yn ei hysgogi, gobeithio, i’w croesawu’n fawr? Fi yw’r unig Aelod Cynulliad Ceidwadol sydd wedi gwasanaethu pob Cynulliad hyd yma. Dyma'r pumed, ac, yn y cyntaf, cawsom ddadl am gosbi plant yn gorfforol ar gynnig yr wyf yn meddwl a gynigiwyd gan Christine Chapman ac roedd naw o Geidwadwyr yn y Cynulliad ar y pryd, a phleidleisiodd tri ohonom o blaid y cynnig hwnnw. Felly, bu cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol i hyn ac, yn amlwg, mae pobl o bob plaid sy'n teimlo y dylid cadw’r amddiffyniad. Rwy’n meddwl mai’r hyn sy'n hanfodol yw ein bod yn cael y ddadl hon yng nghyd-destun hyrwyddo’r dulliau rhianta mwyaf cadarnhaol ac amgylchedd lle mae ein plant yn cael cyfle i ffynnu. Un o'r pryderon y mae angen inni eu cofio yw nad y smacio de minimis, fel y'i gelwir, sy’n digwydd mewn diwylliant sy'n caniatáu hynny sydd bwysicaf; mae hynny’n ymosodiad corfforol bach iawn. Y pryder yw bod hynny’n gwneud defnyddio grym corfforol yn dderbyniol i ryw raddau, ac y gellir colli rheolaeth ar hynny, ac y gallai fod yn haws atal y mathau hynny o gam-drin mewn diwylliant sy'n dweud, 'Mae'r gyfraith yma yn glir iawn, iawn'. Ac rwy’n meddwl bod angen inni gofio’r plant hynny sy'n agored i niwed corfforol gwirioneddol weithiau, er fy mod yn derbyn yn llwyr bod hynny'n bell y tu hwnt i unrhyw beth y byddai’r mwyafrif helaeth o rieni’n ei ystyried yn rhesymol o gwbl.

A gaf ddiweddu drwy ddweud bod rhaid inni, yn anffodus, wynebu y ddadl hon fel mater o gyfraith droseddol? Ac nid wyf yn meddwl bod hynny'n ddefnyddiol. Rwy’n meddwl ei bod yn llawer gwell sôn am gyfreithlondeb rhywbeth, ac, os ydym yn newid y gyfraith, ei bod yn well o lawer dweud nad yw cosb gorfforol yn gyfreithlon mwyach, ac os yw’n digwydd, y byddai disgwyl ymyriad, ond yn y mwyafrif helaeth o achosion, y byddai’n anffurfiol ac yn llawer llai nag unrhyw achos troseddol. Dyna fy nealltwriaeth o'r hyn sydd wedi digwydd yn rhyngwladol, a dyna beth y dylem fod yn ei annog. Rwy’n canmol Llywodraeth Cymru am fwrw ymlaen â hyn nawr, ac rwy’n siŵr y cawn sgwrs helaeth iawn â phobl Cymru yr ydym yn eu gwasanaethu. Bydd llawer o safbwyntiau, ac mae’n ddigon teg i Caroline fynegi barn pobl sydd â barn wahanol, ond rwy’n meddwl bod angen dadl lawn a phriodol. Yn fy marn i, 20 mlynedd yn ôl, roeddwn yn teimlo ei bod yn bryd inni symud ymlaen, ond rwy’n sicr yn meddwl hynny nawr.

15:30

David, can I thank you for your comments? Perhaps you and other Members here were ahead of their time, but this proposal is now catching up with you. Again, I would stress that I would very much seek to take this forward with as wide cross-party support as can be, and to those Members who've previously adopted alternative positions to the current proposal, I would genuinely say 'Engage with us, be open in terms of what we are proposing.' I'm happy to discuss this ad nauseam with people, both formally and informally, because I think what we have in front of us is proportionate, it is well balanced, and it focuses very much on the issue of a positive approach to parenting, recognising that parents want to do the right thing by their children—sometimes, parents of all types need support in order to do that. But it is also giving, critically, that clarity that you mentioned, David, both for people out there in wider society, myself included, but also for courts of law, so that there is simplicity, there is clarity and people know where they stand, and so that people who work in front-line services know where they stand as well when they give advice to parents and carers and guardians. So, I thank you for your support and look forward to engaging with you and many others on this. 

David, a gaf i ddiolch ichi am eich sylwadau? Efallai eich bod chi ac Aelodau eraill yma o flaen eu hamser, ond nawr mae’r cynnig hwn yn dal i fyny â chi. Unwaith eto, hoffwn bwysleisio y byddwn yn sicr yn ceisio bwrw ymlaen â hyn gyda chefnogaeth drawsbleidiol mor eang â phosibl, ac wrth yr Aelodau hynny sydd cyn hyn wedi mabwysiadu safbwyntiau gwahanol i'r cynnig presennol, byddwn wir yn dweud 'Ymgysylltwch â ni, byddwch yn agored o ran yr hyn yr ydym yn ei gynnig.' Rwy’n hapus i drafod hyn hyd syrffed gyda phobl, yn ffurfiol ac yn anffurfiol, oherwydd rwy’n meddwl bod yr hyn sydd gennym ger ein bron yn gymesur, yn gytbwys, ac yn canolbwyntio'n gryf ar y mater o agwedd gadarnhaol at rianta, gan gydnabod bod rhieni eisiau gwneud y peth iawn i’w plant—weithiau, mae angen cymorth ar bob math o rieni i wneud hynny. Ond mae hefyd yn fater o roi, yn hollbwysig, yr eglurder hwnnw a nodwyd gennych, David, i bobl allan yna yn y gymdeithas ehangach, gan fy nghynnwys i, ond hefyd i lysoedd barn, fel y ceir symlrwydd ac eglurder a bod pobl yn gwybod lle maen nhw yn sefyll, ac fel bod y bobl sy’n gweithio mewn gwasanaethau rheng flaen yn gwybod lle maent yn sefyll hefyd wrth roi cyngor i rieni a gwarcheidwaid. Felly, diolch ichi am eich cefnogaeth ac rwy’n edrych ymlaen at ymgysylltu â chi a llawer o bobl eraill ar hyn.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I also want to thank the Minister for his statement today, and also reflect on the fact that we've had some very positive advice and responses from people like Professor Sally Holland, who's the independent children's commissioner. Before she became a children's commissioner, she was, in fact, professor of social policy and social work at Cardiff University. I also acknowledge the evidence that's been provided over the years, going back to the debate that David Melding has just referred to in the first session, by the children's voluntary sector as well. And I think it's very important that people can look to and turn to the well-established and esteemed children's voluntary sector—Barnado's, the NSPCC, Children in Wales—who have been very clear about this from those early days in terms of discussion. 

I also thank Members like Julie Morgan for her sustained support for this change in law from the time she was an MP and her time as an AM. In fact, I would like to say that I've been in a ministerial position and I might have even responded to that debate that was inspired by Christine Chapman, and at that time saying, 'Yes, we want to move forward on this.' I think it is very important that we look at the positive parenting agenda, and that comes through not just in terms of waiting for responses, but I do recall that we funded some very good guidance on managing behaviour. There were two documents, and I think they were produced by public health professionals, health visitors, midwives, people working with the children. There was a document for the under-fives, and then it was about managing behaviour, and managing behaviour for the over-10s too.

This is where we need to make sure that we are getting that information across, so I hope you will also make sure that the positive parenting guidance and advice that we all need—. And I think Bethan Jenkins made a really important point: that this is about all adults—and, indeed, Caroline as well. It's about adults looking after children, and the advice that we can give. But I am very impressed with the way you as Minister have taken this forward, with such detailed consideration, and your own personal commitment and exploration of this issue.

Diolch, Llywydd. Hoffwn hefyd ddiolch i'r Gweinidog am ei ddatganiad heddiw, a myfyrio hefyd ar y ffaith ein bod wedi cael cyngor ac ymatebion cadarnhaol iawn gan bobl fel yr Athro Sally Holland, y comisiynydd plant annibynnol. Cyn iddi ddod yn gomisiynydd plant, roedd hi’n athro polisi cymdeithasol a gwaith cymdeithasol ym Mhrifysgol Caerdydd. Rwyf hefyd yn cydnabod y dystiolaeth a ddarparwyd dros y blynyddoedd, i fynd yn ôl at y ddadl y mae David Melding newydd gyfeirio ati yn y sesiwn gyntaf, gan y sector gwirfoddol plant hefyd. Ac rwy’n meddwl ei bod yn bwysig iawn bod pobl yn gallu edrych at, a throi at, y sector gwirfoddol plant sefydledig ac uchel ei barch—Barnado's, yr NSPCC, Plant yng Nghymru—sydd wedi bod yn glir iawn am hyn ers y dyddiau cynnar hynny o ran y drafodaeth.

Hoffwn hefyd ddiolch i Aelodau fel Julie Morgan am ei chefnogaeth barhaus i’r newid hwn yn y gyfraith ers iddi fod yn AS ac yn ei hamser fel AC. Yn wir, hoffwn ddweud fy mod wedi bod yn Weinidog ac y gallwn hyd yn oed fod wedi ymateb i’r ddadl honno a ysbrydolwyd gan Christine Chapman, a dweud bryd hynny, ‘Ydym, rydym ni eisiau symud ymlaen ar hyn.’ Rwy'n meddwl ei bod yn bwysig iawn ein bod yn edrych ar yr agenda rhianta cadarnhaol, a bod hynny’n digwydd nid yn unig o ran aros am ymatebion, ond rwy’n cofio ein bod wedi ariannu canllawiau da iawn ar reoli ymddygiad. Roedd dwy ddogfen, ac rwy’n meddwl y cawsant eu cynhyrchu gan weithwyr iechyd cyhoeddus proffesiynol, ymwelwyr iechyd, bydwragedd, pobl sy'n gweithio gyda'r plant. Roedd dogfen ar gyfer plant o dan bump, ac wedyn roedd yn ymwneud â rheoli ymddygiad, a rheoli ymddygiad plant dros 10 oed hefyd.

Dyma lle y mae angen inni wneud yn siŵr ein bod yn cyfleu’r wybodaeth honno, felly rwy’n gobeithio y byddwch hefyd yn gwneud yn siŵr bod y canllawiau rhianta cadarnhaol a'r cyngor sydd ei angen arnom i gyd—. Ac rwy’n meddwl bod Bethan Jenkins wedi gwneud pwynt pwysig iawn: bod hyn yn berthnasol i bob oedolyn—ac, yn wir, Caroline hefyd. Mae’n ymwneud ag oedolion sy'n gofalu am blant, a’r cyngor y gallwn ei roi. Ond rwy’n credu bod y ffordd yr ydych chi fel Gweinidog wedi bwrw ymlaen â hyn yn rhagorol, gan ystyried y materion mor fanwl, a’ch ymrwymiad personol eich hun i archwilio’r mater hwn.

15:35

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) i’r Gadair.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Jane, thank you very much for your long-term support of this. Quite rightly, you recognise the role of the children's commissioner in advocating this for some time. I understand she has been supportive of the proposals that we are now bringing forward, and has said so—but also the wide variety of voluntary sector organisations that have also long campaigned for this. And I'm sure they'll all be—as others who have opposing views will be also—inputting into this consultation as it goes forward. You rightly stress the importance of focusing again on the positive parenting aspect, and we know—and we refer to it within the consultation document—where we can see the benefits. There are tangible benefits, with international examples, of the beneficial effect, long term, on those children and young people as they move into adulthood, through those positive approaches of parenting, rather than physical punishment.

But we also know that this is building upon the work that we've done so much of in Wales already. Again, I won't read them into the record now, but they're there in the consultation document. The question is: are those the right interventions, going forward, do they need to be tweaked, adjusted, do we have adequate resource going in, do we need to redeploy the resource? But we know that this isn't coming out of nowhere; this is coming out of a trajectory that this Assembly, and successive Governments, have set about the way we approach parenting, families, children, within Wales. I think it has always been a positive and very progressive agenda, and this is the latest stage. But it takes us on to a defining stage, where we actually say, for children and for parents, that, in Wales, we have an approach where there is clarity in the law, and there is also clarity of purpose around positive parenting. And we know that we as a Government, and we as an Assembly, have a pivotal role in taking this forward. Thank you.

Jane, diolch yn fawr iawn am eich cefnogaeth hirdymor yn hyn o beth. Yn gwbl briodol, rydych yn cydnabod swyddogaeth y comisiynydd plant wrth ddadlau dros hyn ers cryn amser. Rwy'n deall iddi fod yn gefnogol i'r cynigion yr ydym yn eu cyflwyno ar hyn o bryd, ac mae hi wedi dweud hynny—ond mae'r amrywiaeth eang o sefydliadau yn y sector gwirfoddol hefyd wedi ymgyrchu ers amser hir dros hyn. Ac rwy'n sicr y bydden nhw i gyd—fel y bydd eraill sydd o farn wrthgyferbyniol hefyd—yn cyfrannu at yr ymgynghoriad hwn wrth iddo fynd rhagddo. Rydych, yn gwbl gywir felly, yn pwysleisio pwysigrwydd canolbwyntio unwaith eto ar yr agwedd rhianta cadarnhaol, ac fe wyddom ni—ac rydym yn cyfeirio at hynny yn y ddogfen ymgynghori—lle gallwn weld y manteision. Ceir manteision gwirioneddol, gydag enghreifftiau rhyngwladol, o'r effaith fuddiol a hirdymor ar y plant a'r bobl ifanc hynny wrth iddynt ddatblygu i fod yn oedolion, drwy'r dulliau cadarnhaol o rianta, yn hytrach na chosb gorfforol.

Ond gwyddom hefyd mai adeiladu y mae hyn ar y gwaith yr ydym eisoes wedi gwneud cymaint ohono yng Nghymru. Eto, nid wyf yn mynd i'w darllen nhw nawr ar gyfer y cofnod, ond maen nhw yno yn y ddogfen ymgynghori. Y cwestiwn yw: ai'r rhain yw'r ymyriadau cywir, wrth fynd ymlaen, a oes angen eu mireinio a'u haddasu, a oes gennym yr adnoddau digonol, a oes angen inni adleoli'r adnodd? Ond gwyddom na fydd hyn yn digwydd ar hap; bydd yn digwydd o'r llwybr a osodwyd gan y Cynulliad hwn, a Llywodraethau olynol, ynghylch y ffordd yr ydym yn ymdrin â rhianta, teuluoedd a phlant yng Nghymru. Credaf mai agenda gadarnhaol a blaengar iawn fu hon erioed, a dyma'r cam diweddaraf. Ond mae'n mynd â ni ymlaen at gam sy'n diffinio, lle byddwn ni mewn gwirionedd yn dweud bod gennym ni, ar gyfer plant a rhieni Cymru, ddull lle mae eglurder yn y gyfraith, ac mae eglurder pwrpas hefyd o ran rhianta cadarnhaol. Ac rydym yn gwybod bod gennym ni fel Llywodraeth, ac fel Cynulliad, swyddogaeth allweddol wrth symud hyn yn ei flaen. Diolch.

4. Datganiad gan y Cwnsler Cyffredinol: Cod Erlyn Llywodraeth Cymru
4. Statement by the Counsel General: The Welsh Government Prosecution Code

Item 4 on our agenda this afternoon is the statement by the Counsel General on the Welsh Government prosecution code. I call the Counsel General, Jeremy Miles, to introduce the statement.

Eitem 4 ar ein hagenda y prynhawn yma yw'r datganiad gan y Cwnsler Cyffredinol ar God Erlyn Llywodraeth Cymru. Rwy'n galw ar y Cwnsler Cyffredinol, Jeremy Miles, i gyflwyno'r datganiad.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru nifer o gyfrifoldebau erlyn mewn cysylltiad â'i swyddogaethau. Mae'r cyfrifoldebau hyn yn ymwneud yn bennaf â lles anifeiliaid, cynhyrchu bwyd, a physgodfeydd. Pan fo cyfreithiau’n creu rhwymedigaethau rheoleiddiol a throseddau cysylltiedig, rhaid sicrhau eu bod yn cael eu gorfodi’n briodol er budd llywodraethu da, ac ni fydd yn syndod i Aelodau, felly, bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cymryd yr angen i orfodi’r materion hyn o ddifrif.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The Welsh Government holds a number of prosecution responsibilities in connection with its functions. These prosecution responsibilities principally relate to animal welfare, food production and fisheries. It is in the interests of good government that where laws create regulatory obligations and related offences, they are appropriately enforced, and it will be of no surprise to Members, therefore, that the Welsh Government takes the enforcement of these matters very seriously.

Enforcement action that the Welsh Government has taken in relation to animal welfare and food production has resulted in prosecutions. Most recently, for example, a prosecution was brought in the Counsel General’s name for a breach of the EC egg marketing regulations and fraud. I am pleased to say that this prosecution resulted in a conviction, a fine, and a proceeds of crime order. This case, and others like it, serves as a reminder that when illegal action—in this case, within the Welsh egg industry—is uncovered, offenders should be in no doubt that the Welsh Government will act to ensure that the law is upheld.

In relation to fisheries, marine enforcement officers acting on behalf of the Welsh Ministers have investigated numerous infringements of fisheries laws in Welsh waters, leading to a number of successful prosecutions. These prosecutions protect the integrity and sustainability of this important sector. However, our prosecution responsibilities do not end there. We also have prosecution responsibilities in relation to regulated activity in the fields of social care, childcare and independent healthcare. Prosecutions may therefore be brought against persons who are registered providers in one of those fields for breaching regulatory requirements. Equally, prosecutions may be brought against persons who carry on a regulated activity without being registered. 

The Welsh Government is committed to fair and effective prosecution as a way of maintaining law and order, protecting individuals, the public and our resources, and ensuring that we all live in a safe and just society. A decision to prosecute or even to recommend a caution is a very serious step that affects not only the suspect in a case, but all those involved, in particular victims and witnesses. It is of paramount importance that we maintain public confidence when making decisions in relation to prosecutions and a major part of this is explaining how we make our decisions and the principles we apply when making those decisions. All prosecution decisions must be taken fairly, impartially and with integrity. I am therefore delighted to announce that today I have issued the Welsh Government prosecution code.

As Counsel General, I am generally responsible for prosecution decisions in the Welsh Government, though some prosecution decisions are taken in the name of the Welsh Ministers under statute. In each and every case, I need to consider whether the case is suitable for prosecuting. This has, up until now, been done by reference to the Crown Prosecution Service code for crown prosecutors. However, from today all Welsh Government prosecution decisions will be made by reference to the Welsh Government prosecution code. The Welsh Government code is based on the existing CPS code but has been adapted to take Welsh Government prosecution functions into account.

The CPS code was developed primarily for use in relation to mainstream criminal offences. It therefore takes into account the type of prosecutions that are commenced by the CPS and the police. So, it is inevitable that there are parts of the CPS code that do not apply to the Welsh Government. For example, the CPS code contains a threshold test that applies to custody cases. In light of this, and coupled with the fact that the Welsh Government’s prosecution functions continue to grow, it is only appropriate for the Welsh Government to have its own prosecution code. This specifically tailored code will ensure that fair and consistent decisions about prosecutions are made by the Welsh Government.

The new code sets out my general power to commence prosecutions under the Government of Wales Act 2006. Further, the code contains the prosecution test, which will be applied to all prosecution cases. This test has two separate stages: firstly, the sufficient evidence test, and secondly, the public interest stage. The sufficient evidence stage requires the prosecutor to be satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction against each suspect for each offence. The public interest stage requires prosecutors to go on and consider whether a prosecution is required in the public interest.

Mae'r camau gorfodi a gymerwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru o ran lles anifeiliaid a chynhyrchu bwyd wedi arwain at erlyniadau. Yn fwyaf diweddar, er enghraifft, cafwyd erlyniad yn enw'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol am drosedd â rheoliadau CE o ran marchnata wyau a thwyll. Rwy'n falch o ddweud bod yr erlyniad hwn wedi arwain at euogfarn, dirwy a gorchymyn enillion troseddau. Mae'r achos hwn, ac eraill tebyg, yn ein hatgoffa pan fydd torcyfraith yn dod i'r amlwg—yn yr achos hwn, o fewn y diwydiant wyau yng Nghymru— y dylai troseddwyr fod yn gwbl sicr y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithredu i gynnal y gyfraith.

O ran pysgodfeydd, mae swyddogion gorfodi morol sy'n gweithredu ar ran Gweinidogion Cymru wedi ymchwilio i nifer o droseddau yn erbyn deddfau pysgodfeydd yn nyfroedd Cymru, gan arwain at nifer o erlyniadau llwyddiannus. Mae'r erlyniadau hyn yn diogelu uniondeb a chynaliadwyedd y sector pwysig hwn. Er hynny, nid yw ein cyfrifoldebau erlyn yn dod i ben gyda hynny. Mae gennym hefyd gyfrifoldebau erlyn o ran gweithgaredd a reoleiddir ym meysydd gofal cymdeithasol, gofal iechyd annibynnol a gofal plant. Felly, gellir dwyn erlyniadau yn erbyn unigolion sy'n ddarparwyr cofrestredig yn un o'r meysydd hynny am dorri gofynion rheoliadol. Yn yr un modd, gellir dwyn erlyniadau yn erbyn unigolion sy'n cyflawni gweithgareddau rheoleiddiedig heb fod wedi eu cofrestru.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i erlyniad teg ac effeithiol fel ffordd o gynnal cyfraith a threfn, amddiffyn unigolion, y cyhoedd a'n hadnoddau, a sicrhau bod pob un ohonom yn byw mewn cymdeithas ddiogel a chyfiawn. Mae penderfyniad i erlyn neu hyd yn oed argymell rhybudd yn gam difrifol iawn sy'n effeithio nid yn unig ar yr unigolyn sydd dan amheuaeth mewn achos, ond yn effeithio ar bawb sy'n gysylltiedig â'r achos, yn ddioddefwyr a thystion yn benodol. Mae'n hollbwysig ein bod yn cadw hyder y cyhoedd wrth wneud penderfyniadau o ran erlyniadau. Rhan fawr o hynny yw esbonio sut yr ydym yn gwneud ein penderfyniadau a'r egwyddorion sydd yn gymwys wrth wneud y penderfyniadau hynny. Rhaid cymryd pob penderfyniad i erlyn yn deg, yn ddiduedd ac yn ddidwyll. Rwyf felly wrth fy modd o ddatgan heddiw fy mod wedi cyhoeddi Cod Erlyn Llywodraeth Cymru.

Yn Gwnsler Cyffredinol, rwy'n gyfrifol yn gyffredinol am benderfyniadau erlyn yn Llywodraeth Cymru, er y gwneir rhai penderfyniadau erlyn yn enw Gweinidogion Cymru o dan statud. Ym mhob achos, mae angen i mi ystyried a yw'n achos sy'n addas ar gyfer ei erlyn. Hyd yn hyn, gwnaed hynny drwy gyfeirio at God Gwasanaeth Erlyn y Goron ar gyfer erlynwyr y goron. Fodd bynnag, o heddiw ymlaen bydd pob penderfyniad erlyn gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn cael ei wneud drwy gyfeirio at god erlyn Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae cod Llywodraeth Cymru yn seiliedig ar god presennol Gwasanaeth Erlyn y Goron ond wedi ei addasu i gymryd swyddogaethau erlyn Llywodraeth Cymru i ystyriaeth.

Cafodd cod Gwasanaeth Erlyn y Goron CPS ei ddatblygu yn bennaf i'w ddefnyddio mewn perthynas â thramgwyddau troseddol prif ffrwd. Mae felly yn cymryd i ystyriaeth y math o erlyniadau sy'n cael eu cychwyn gan Wasanaeth Erlyn y Goron a'r heddlu. Mae'n anochel nad yw rhannau o god Gwasanaeth Erlyn y Goron yn gymwys i Lywodraeth Cymru. Er enghraifft, mae cod Gwasanaeth Erlyn y Goron yn cynnwys prawf trothwy sy'n gymwys i achosion dalfa. Yng ngoleuni hyn, ac ynghyd â'r ffaith bod swyddogaethau erlyn Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i dyfu, mae'n briodol i Lywodraeth Cymru gael ei chod erlyn ei hunan. Bydd y cod hwn, sydd wedi ei deilwra'n benodol, yn sicrhau y gwneir penderfyniadau teg a chyson am erlyniadau gan Lywodraeth Cymru.

Mae'r cod newydd yn pennu fy ngallu cyffredinol i ddechrau erlyniadau o dan Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006. Ymhellach, mae'r cod yn cynnwys y prawf erlyniad, a fydd yn berthnasol i holl achosion erlyn. Mae dau gam ar wahân i'r prawf hwn: yn gyntaf, prawf y dystiolaeth ddigonol, ac yn ail, cam lles y cyhoedd. Mae'r cam tystiolaeth ddigonol yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i'r erlynydd gael ei fodloni bod digon o dystiolaeth i roi gobaith realistig o euogfarn yn erbyn pob un sydd dan amheuaeth ar gyfer pob trosedd. Mae cam lles y cyhoedd yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i erlynwyr fynd ymlaen i ystyried a yw erlyniad yn ofynnol er lles y cyhoedd.

Mae’r cod yn amlinellu nifer o ffactorau penodol i'r erlynydd eu hystyried wrth benderfynu ar y budd i'r cyhoedd, sy’n amrywio gan ddibynnu ar gyd-destun yr erlyniad. Er enghraifft, yng nghyd-destun erlyniad amgylcheddol, bydd angen i erlynydd ystyried effaith y drosedd ar yr amgylchedd. Po fwyaf yw effaith y troseddu, y mwyaf tebygol yw hi y bydd angen erlyniad, ac yng nghyd-destun erlyniad gofal cymdeithasol, bydd angen i'r erlynydd ystyried a oes elfen o berygl i iechyd neu ddiogelwch y cyhoedd.  

Cyn y cafodd y cod hwn ei gyhoeddi, lansiodd fy rhagflaenydd a’m cydweithiwr Mick Antoniw ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus ar god drafft er mwyn rhoi cyfle i randdeiliaid a'r cyhoedd gyflwyno sylwadau a barn. Hoffwn gymryd y cyfle hwn i ddiolch i bawb wnaeth ymateb i'r ymgynghoriad hwnnw. Cafwyd nifer o sylwadau gwerthfawr a gallaf gadarnhau y cafodd diwygiadau eu gwneud i'r cod drafft o ganlyniad i'r sylwadau hyn. Hoffwn ddiolch yn benodol i'r Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol am y sylwadau ynghylch eglurder yn benodol. Mae’r cod wedi elwa ar fewnbwn y pwyllgor ac rwy’n gobeithio y bydd yn cytuno bod y cod terfynol yn gliriach oherwydd hynny. Hoffwn ddiolch, yn olaf, i Wasanaeth Erlyn y Goron am gydweithio'n agos â swyddogion Llywodraeth Cymru wrth ddatblygu'r cod.

The code sets out a number of specific factors for the prosecutor to consider when deciding on the public interest, which vary depending on the context of the prosecution. For example, in the context of an environmental prosecution, a prosecutor will need to consider the impact that the offence may have on the environment. The greater the impact of the offending on the environment, the more likely it is that a prosecution is required. And in the context of a social care prosecution, a prosecutor will need to consider whether there is an element of danger to the health or safety of the public.

Before this code was issued, my predecessor and colleague Mick Antoniw launched a public consultation on a draft code in order to give stakeholders and members of the public the opportunity to comment and provide their views. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all those who responded to that consultation. A number of valuable comments were received and I can confirm that amendments were made to the draft code as a result of those comments. In particular, I would like to thank the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee for their comments on points of clarity. The code has benefited from the committee's input and I hope the committee will agree that the final code is clearer as a result. I would also like to thank the Crown Prosecution Service, finally, for their close engagement with Welsh Government officials on the development of the code.

The Welsh Government's objective throughout has been to develop a Welsh Government prosecution code that is clear, accessible and fit for purpose, and the input of all stakeholders has been valuable in developing a code that would give a clear basis for Welsh Government prosecutions in future as we continue to enforce the laws for which we are responsible.

Amcan Llywodraeth Cymru drwy'r cyfan fu datblygu cod erlyn Llywodraeth Cymru sydd yn glir, yn hygyrch ac yn addas at y diben. Mae mewnbwn gan yr holl randdeiliaid wedi bod yn werthfawr wrth ddatblygu cod a fyddai'n rhoi sail glir i erlyniadau gan Lywodraeth Cymru i'r dyfodol wrth inni barhau i weithredu'r cyfreithiau yr ydym yn gyfrifol amdanynt.

15:45

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'll make a short intervention, but I'd give one principal response, really, and that's: what was the tenor of the consultation responses overall? As the Counsel General has said, last May there was a draft code published for consultation. As far as I'm aware, the consultation responses have not been published. I do apologise if this is my IT failure, but I've not been able to get hold of them, and I don't think an analysis has been made available to us of the responses. I do think it would be quite useful, especially as you've said that the code has in fact been amended in light of these responses. However, independently I have seen the RSPCA's response to the consultation and it did have concerns about the prosecution test, which, as you said, was key to the consultation in that it narrows the application of the Welsh Government code compared to the CPS code, which is obviously a point that would need careful thought and either reassurance or rebuttal from your point of view.

Finally, I would like to ask whether there's any assessment of the capacity of the Welsh Government to undertake this task and effectively implement the code, given that we will have more Welsh law, presumably, it's getting more distinct, and the duties of prosecution are likely to grow. I certainly agree with you that we need fair and effective implementation of law, otherwise we will not be well governed, so that really does go to the heart of this. In doing that, I'm very mindful that the human rights issues involved when people are confronted with law-breaking and gathering evidence and the like need to be considered very, very carefully as, obviously, they are at the moment in terms of what the Crown Prosecution Service uses.

Diolch ichi, Dirprwy Lywydd. Byddaf yn gwneud ymyriad byr, ond mae gennyf un prif ymateb, mewn gwirionedd, a hwnnw yw: beth oedd cywair yr ymatebion i'r ymgynghoriad yn gyffredinol? Fel y dywedodd y Cwnsler Cyffredinol, fis Mai diwethaf cafodd cod drafft ei gyhoeddi ar gyfer ymgynghoriad. Hyd y gwn i, ni chyhoeddwyd yr ymatebion i'r ymgynghoriad. Rwy'n ymddiheuro os fy methiant TG i yw hynny, ond nid wyf wedi llwyddo i gael gafael arnyn nhw, ac nid wy'n credu bod dadansoddiad o'r ymatebion wedi bod ar gael inni. Rwyf i o'r farn y byddai hynny'n ddefnyddiol iawn, yn enwedig gan eich bod wedi dweud bod y cod wedi'i ddiwygio mewn gwirionedd yng ngoleuni'r ymatebion hyn. Eto i gyd, rwyf wedi gweld ymateb yr RSPCA i'r ymgynghoriad ar wahân ac roedd pryderon ynddo am y prawf erlyn, sydd, fel y dywedasoch, yn allweddol i'r ymgynghoriad gan ei fod yn culhau cymhwysiad cod Llywodraeth Cymru o'i gymharu â chod Gwasanaeth Erlyn y Goron. Yn amlwg, mae hwn yn bwynt y byddai angen ystyriaeth ofalus ohono a naill ai sicrwydd neu wrthbrawf o'ch safbwynt chi.

Yn olaf, hoffwn i ofyn a oes unrhyw asesiad o allu Llywodraeth Cymru i gyflawni'r dasg hon a gweithredu'r cod yn effeithiol. O ystyried y bydd gennym fwy o gyfraith Cymru, yn ôl pob tebyg, mae'n mynd yn fwy ar wahân, ac mae dyletswyddau erlyn yn debygol o dyfu. Rwy'n cytuno â chi yn sicr fod angen inni sicrhau gweithrediad teg ac effeithiol o'r gyfraith, ni chawn ni ein llywodraethu yn dda fel arall, ac felly yn wir mae hynny'n mynd at galon hyn. Wrth wneud hynny, rwy'n ymwybodol iawn y bydd angen ystyriaeth ofalus iawn, iawn o'r materion hawliau dynol dan sylw pan fydd pobl yn wynebu torcyfraith, ac wrth gasglu tystiolaeth a phethau tebyg, fel sy'n digwydd yn amlwg ar hyn o bryd gyda Gwasanaeth Erlyn y Goron.