Y Cyfarfod Llawn - Y Bumed Senedd

Plenary - Fifth Senedd

27/09/2017

Cynnwys

Contents

1. Datganiad gan y Dirprwy Lywydd 1. Statement by the Deputy Presiding Officer
2. 1. Cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid a Llywodraeth Leol 2. 1. Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government
3. 2. Cwestiynau i Gomisiwn y Cynulliad 3. 2. Questions to the Assembly Commission
4. 3. Cwestiynau Amserol 4. 3. Topical Questions
5. 4. Datganiadau 90 Eiliad 5. 4. 90-second Statements
6. 5. Cynnig i Ddiwygio Rheol Sefydlog 26 mewn perthynas â Biliau Pwyllgorau 6. 5. Motion to Amend Standing Order 26 in relation to Committee Bills
7. 6. Cynnig i Ddiwygio Rheolau Sefydlog 11, 12 a 13 mewn perthynas â Deddf Cymru 2017 ac Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru 7. 6. Motion to Amend Standing Orders 11, 12 and 13 in relation to the Wales Act 2017 and the Secretary of State for Wales
8. 7. Dadl ar Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad 01-17 i'r Cynulliad o dan Reol Sefydlog 22.9 8. 7. Debate on the Standards of Conduct Committee's Report 01-17 to the Assembly under Standing Order 22.9
9. 8. Dadl ar Adroddiad Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau: ‘Ar y trywydd iawn? Masnachfraint y Rheilffyrdd a Metro De Cymru’ 9. 8. Debate on the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee Report: ‘On the right track? The Rail Franchise and South Wales Metro’
10. 9. Dadl ar Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Allanol a Deddfwriaeth Ychwanegol ar ei ‘Ymchwiliad i ddyfodol polisi rhanbarthol—beth nesaf i Gymru?’ 10. 9. Debate on the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee's Report on their ‘Inquiry into the future of regional policy—what next for Wales?’
11. 10. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig: Strategaeth Genedlaethol Llywodraeth Cymru 11. 10. Welsh Conservatives Debate: The Welsh Government’s National Strategy
12. 11. Cyfnod Pleidleisio 12. 11. Voting Time
13. 12. Dadl Fer: Dŵr Ffo o'r Mynydd ac ar ein Ffyrdd—A All Cymru Atal Problem Gorlifo Sydyn? 13. 12. Short Debate: 'Running off that Road, Running Down that Hill'—Can Wales Hold Back the Tide of Flash Flooding?

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) yn y Gadair.

The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) in the Chair.

Well, good afternoon. Can I call Members to order, please? Thank you.

Wel, prynhawn da. A gaf fi alw’r Aelodau i drefn, os gwelwch yn dda? Diolch.

1. Datganiad gan y Dirprwy Lywydd
1. Statement by the Deputy Presiding Officer

Before we move to item 1 on the agenda, I would like to warmly welcome Speaker Christopher Collins and Clerk Mr Donald Forestell of the Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick, Canada, who have joined us in the public gallery.

Croeso cynnes iawn i’r Senedd.

A very warm welcome to the Senedd.

Cyn symud at eitem 1 ar yr agenda, hoffwn roi croeso cynnes i’r Llefarydd Christopher Collins a’r Clerc Mr Donald Forestell o Gynulliad Deddfwriaethol New Brunswick, Canada, sydd wedi ymuno â ni yn yr oriel gyhoeddus.

A very warm welcome to the Senedd.

Croeso cynnes iawn i’r Senedd.

2. 1. Cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid a Llywodraeth Leol
2. 1. Questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government

Mae [R] yn dynodi bod yr Aelod wedi datgan buddiant. Mae [W] yn dynodi bod y cwestiwn wedi’i gyflwyno yn Gymraeg.

[R] signifies the Member has declared an interest. [W] signifies that the question was tabled in Welsh.

So, item 1 is questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government. And the first question is Huw Irranca-Davies.

Felly, yr eitem gyntaf yw cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid a Llywodraeth Leol. A daw’r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Huw Irranca-Davies.

Y Cod Ymarfer ar gyfer Cyflogaeth Foesegol

The Code of Practice for Ethical Employment

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. And I feel I’m under pressure now, with our esteemed visitors in the gallery.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Ac rwy’n teimlo fy mod o dan bwysau yn awr, gyda’n hymwelwyr nodedig yn yr oriel.

1. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet egluro sut y mae’n bwriadu asesu gweithrediad y cod ymarfer ar gyfer cyflogaeth foesegol mewn cadwyni cyflenwi yn y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru? (OAQ51064)

1. Will the Cabinet Secretary explain how he intends to assess the implementation of the code of practice for ethical employment in supply chains in the Welsh public sector? (OAQ51064)

Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, implementation of the code will be monitored through annual reporting by public bodies. I also expect those reports to be considered by our social partners at the workforce partnership council.

Wel, Dirprwy Lywydd, bydd y broses o weithredu’r cod yn cael ei monitro drwy adroddiadau blynyddol gan gyrff cyhoeddus. Rwyf hefyd yn disgwyl i’n partneriaid cymdeithasol yng nghyngor partneriaeth y gweithlu ystyried yr adroddiadau hynny.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for that answer. And could I say, as the chair of the cross-party group on universities—and I know I have fellow members here—how welcome was the announcement by the chair of University Wales, Professor Colin Riordan, when he said that, by the end of July 2017, all Welsh universities will have to become signatories to the Welsh Government’s code of practice for ethical employment in supply chains? And he went on to say—and this is the practical implementation—that Universities Wales members are committed to paying the Living Wage Foundation’s living wage to all directly employed higher education staff by 2018-19, and to starting the process of implementing the living wage across their outsourced HE activity. Does he agree with me that we should all as Assembly Members, of all parties, take pride in this part of the devolution dividend, when this Assembly, and this Welsh Government, can force the pace of progressive change in employment?

Diolch i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet am ei ateb. Ac a gaf fi ddweud, fel Cadeirydd y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar brifysgolion—a gwn fod cyd-aelodau o’r pwyllgor yma—fy mod yn croesawu’r cyhoeddiad gan Gadeirydd Prifysgol Cymru, yr Athro Colin Riordan, pan ddywedodd y byddai’n rhaid i holl brifysgolion Cymru, erbyn diwedd mis Gorffennaf 2017, gytuno i god ymarfer Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyflogaeth foesegol mewn cadwyni cyflenwi? Ac aeth yn ei flaen i ddweud—a dyma’r gweithrediad ymarferol—fod aelodau Prifysgolion Cymru wedi ymrwymo i dalu cyflog byw’r Living Wage Foundation i bob aelod o staff a gyflogir yn uniongyrchol mewn addysg uwch erbyn 2018-19, ac i ddechrau’r broses o roi’r cyflog byw ar waith mewn perthynas â gweithgarwch allanol o fewn addysg uwch. A yw’n cytuno â mi y dylai pob un ohonom, fel Aelodau’r Cynulliad o bob plaid, ymfalchïo yn y rhan hon o’r difidend datganoli, pan fo’r Cynulliad hwn a Llywodraeth Cymru yn gallu cyflymu newid blaengar mewn cyflogaeth?

Well, can I thank the Member for that? I absolutely agree with him that the code is an example of how we have been able to use the powers available to us to break new ground, in ensuring that, in the supply chains that are there in the Welsh public sector, ethical employment is at the heart of the way in which goods and services are procured. Now, the code was only signed off at the workforce partnership council in March of this year, so it was great to see Higher Education Wales very early into the field, in making their commitment to sign up to the code and its consequences. Since then, we know that all police forces in Wales are going to be signatories to the code. We have local authorities in Wales signing up to it, housing associations, there are 20 private sector and third sector organisations already signed up to it, and, of course, the Welsh Government itself is a signatory to the code. And I look forward very much to seeing that code rolled out further, doing the work that we need it to do, and then to be able to report on its impact in supply chains in the Welsh public sector over the months ahead.

Wel, a gaf fi ddiolch i’r Aelod am hynny? Rwy’n cytuno’n llwyr ag ef fod y cod yn enghraifft o sut rydym wedi gallu defnyddio’r pwerau sydd ar gael inni er mwyn torri tir newydd, a sicrhau bod cyflogaeth foesegol yn ganolog i’r ffordd y caiff nwyddau a gwasanaethau eu caffael mewn cadwyni cyflenwi yn y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Nawr, dim ond ym mis Mawrth eleni y cymeradwywyd y cod yng nghyngor partneriaeth y gweithlu, felly roedd yn braf gweld Addysg Uwch Cymru yn mynd ati’n gynnar iawn i ymrwymo i gytuno i’r cod a’i ganlyniadau. Ers hynny, gwyddom y bydd yr holl heddluoedd yng Nghymru yn cytuno i’r cod. Mae gennym awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru yn cytuno iddo, cymdeithasau tai, mae 20 o sefydliadau’r sector preifat a’r trydydd sector eisoes wedi cytuno iddo, ac wrth gwrs, mae Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun wedi cytuno i’r cod. Ac edrychaf ymlaen yn fawr at weld y cod yn cael ei roi ar waith ar raddfa ehangach, gan wneud y gwaith rydym angen iddo ei wneud, ac i allu adrodd wedyn ar ei effaith mewn cadwyni cyflenwi yn y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru dros y misoedd i ddod.

The code of practice, of course, sets out actions to tackle illegal and unfair employment practices. And, as Huw Irranca-Davies indicated, paying less than the living wage is unfair employment practice, and we are all aware of allegations made in both the care and the hospitality sectors, because services from those sectors can be procured by public services, of course. Is it possible that the mechanisms you mentioned a little bit earlier can miss picking up those instances where employers say they’re paying the living wage, but may not, in fact, be doing so?

Mae’r cod ymarfer, wrth gwrs, yn nodi camau gweithredu i fynd i’r afael ag arferion cyflogaeth anghyfreithlon ac annheg. Ac fel y dywedodd Huw Irranca-Davies, mae talu llai na’r cyflog byw yn arfer cyflogaeth annheg, a gŵyr pob un ohonom am honiadau a wnaed yn y sector gofal a’r sector lletygarwch, gan fod modd i wasanaethau cyhoeddus gaffael gwasanaethau yn y sectorau hynny wrth gwrs. A yw’n bosibl y gallai’r mecanweithiau a grybwyllwyd gennych ychydig yn gynharach fethu nodi’r achosion hynny pan fo cyflogwyr yn dweud eu bod yn talu’r cyflog byw, ond efallai nad ydynt yn gwneud hynny mewn gwirionedd?

Well, it is very important—I agree with Suzy Davies—that we are alert to those instances where employers try to subvert the minimum wage. We know that there are instances, sadly, in Wales where, through tied accommodation, or tied transport, for example, in effect, people are paid below the statutory minimum. Now, we rely on our trade union colleagues very heavily to be part of that network that alerts us to those instances when they happen.

The document that we published as a Government a couple of weeks ago on fair movement of people sets out a series of actions that we believe the UK Government needs to take to make sure that the rights that people have at that part of a labour market are properly protected, but steps that the Welsh Government intends to take as well, to make sure that, where people are not having their rights properly observed, we have strong mechanisms for identifying those instances, and then pursuing them.

Wel, mae’n bwysig iawn—rwy’n cytuno â Suzy Davies—ein bod yn effro i achosion lle y mae cyflogwyr yn ceisio tanseilio’r isafswm cyflog. Gwyddom fod enghreifftiau, yn anffodus, yng Nghymru lle y mae pobl, er enghraifft, drwy lety ynghlwm wrth waith neu gludiant ynghlwm wrth waith, yn cael eu talu islaw’r isafswm statudol i bob pwrpas. Nawr, rydym yn dibynnu ar ein cydweithwyr yn yr undebau llafur i fod yn rhan o’r rhwydwaith sy’n tynnu ein sylw at achosion o’r fath pan fyddant yn codi.

Mae’r ddogfen a gyhoeddwyd gennym fel Llywodraeth rai wythnosau yn ôl ar degwch o ran symudiad pobl yn nodi cyfres o gamau y credwn fod angen i Lywodraeth y DU eu cymryd er mwyn sicrhau bod yr hawliau sydd gan bobl yn y rhan honno o farchnad lafur yn cael eu diogelu’n briodol, yn ogystal â’r camau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwriadu eu cymryd i sicrhau bod gennym fecanweithiau cadarn ar waith i nodi achosion pan nad yw hawliau pobl yn cael eu parchu, a mynd i’r afael â’r achosion hynny wedyn.

Bargen Dwf i Ganolbarth Cymru

A Mid Wales Growth Deal

2. Pa ystyriaeth y mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi'i rhoi i sefydlu bargen dwf i ganolbarth Cymru? (OAQ51067)

2. What consideration has the Cabinet Secretary given to the establishment of a mid-Wales growth deal? (OAQ51067)

I thank Russell George for that question. The possibility of a growth deal for mid Wales has been discussed in a number of meetings that I have attended with the leaders of Ceredigion and Powys county councils, both before and after this year’s local authority elections. Informal, official-level discussions have also taken place. Local bodies continue to take the lead in developing any growth deal proposition.

Diolch i Russell George am ei gwestiwn. Mae’r posibilrwydd o fargen dwf i ganolbarth Cymru wedi cael ei drafod mewn nifer o gyfarfodydd a fynychais gydag arweinwyr cynghorau sir Ceredigion a Phowys, cyn ac ar ôl etholiadau’r awdurdodau lleol eleni. Cynhaliwyd trafodaethau anffurfiol ar lefel swyddogol hefyd. Mae cyrff lleol yn parhau i arwain y gwaith o ddatblygu unrhyw gynnig ar y fargen dwf.

Thank you for your answer, Cabinet Secretary. As we know, economic development is the backbone to rural economies’ survival. I was pleased that the First Minister confirmed last week, in his statement on the national strategy, that the Welsh Government will be looking at creating a mid Wales growth deal to support the economy of the region. So, on that basis, can I ask what initial finance you have considered putting in place to support early work that will be required to make a mid Wales growth deal a reality?

Diolch am eich ateb, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Fel y gwyddom, datblygu economaidd yw asgwrn cefn goroesiad economïau gwledig. Roeddwn yn falch o weld y Prif Weinidog yn cadarnhau, yn ei ddatganiad ar y strategaeth genedlaethol yr wythnos diwethaf, y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ystyried creu bargen dwf i ganolbarth Cymru er mwyn cefnogi economi’r rhanbarth. Felly, ar y sail honno, a gaf i ofyn pa gyllid cychwynnol rydych wedi ystyried ei roi ar waith i gynorthwyo’r gwaith cynnar y bydd ei angen er mwyn gwireddu bargen dwf i ganolbarth Cymru?

To date, Chair, the funding that has been needed to develop the idea has been contributed by those who have been members of the partnership that has been set up: members drawn from the private sector, from manufacturing, agriculture and tourism, together with higher and further education, the voluntary sector and local government. Where the Welsh Government and, indeed, the UK Government will come into the picture, should a growth deal be developed, is when we get to the point of having specific ideas identified, a core set of purposes, an agreed set of priorities, and then, we are committed to discussing purposefully with the UK Government and with local players the financial contribution that the Welsh Government may be able to make to such a deal.

Hyd yn hyn, Cadeirydd, mae’r arian sydd wedi bod yn angenrheidiol er mwyn datblygu’r syniad wedi cael ei gyfrannu gan y rhai a fu’n aelodau o’r bartneriaeth a sefydlwyd: aelodau o’r sector preifat, o weithgynhyrchu, amaethyddiaeth a thwristiaeth, ynghyd ag addysg uwch, addysg bellach, y sector gwirfoddol a llywodraeth leol. Daw Llywodraeth Cymru, ac yn wir, Llywodraeth y DU, yn rhan o’r peth, pe bai bargen dwf yn cael ei datblygu, pan ddaw’n bryd nodi syniadau penodol, set o ddibenion craidd, set o flaenoriaethau y cytunwyd arnynt, ac yna, byddwn yn ymrwymo i gynnal trafodaethau pwrpasol gyda Llywodraeth y DU, a chyda chynrychiolwyr lleol ynglŷn â’r cyfraniad ariannol y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud i fargen o’r fath.

A gaf i yn gyntaf groesawu’r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet a’i fod e yma heddiw yn hytrach nag yn gwrando ar ei arweinydd yn Brighton? Mae’n siŵr y byddai’n well gyda fe fod ar lan y môr yn fanna, ond rydym ni’n falch iawn o’i weld e fan hyn. Os caf i ofyn yn benodol ar y cysyniad yma o ryw fath o fargen dwf ar gyfer y canolbarth? Hefyd, mae’n rhaid meddwl yn nhermau’r gorllewin i gyd, yn fy marn i, achos mae gyda ni beth sy’n digwydd yn y de, rydym ni’n gwybod am y dinas-ranbarthau, a rhywbeth penodol gan y Llywodraeth hon a Llywodraeth Llundain yn fanna. Yn y gogledd, mae yna gysyniad yn mynd ar draws y gogledd, ac, wrth gwrs, mae cysylltiadau dros y ffin i Loegr a gwahanol gytundebau dinasoedd yn fanna. Mae yna wacter yn y canol, a beth rwy’n chwilio amdano gan yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet heddiw yw rhyw fath o syniad ganddo fe o ble mae’r Llywodraeth hon yn sefyll o ran hynny? A ydych chi’n credu y dylid llanw’r gwacter yna gyda rhyw fath o fargen neu gytundeb twf ar gyfer yr ardaloedd? Rwy’n gwybod bod rhaid iddo fe gael ei dyfu o’r gwaelod i fyny, ond a ydych chi’n awyddus i weld hynny’n digwydd?

May I first of all welcome the fact that the Cabinet Secretary is here today, rather than listening to his leader in Brighton? I’m sure he would prefer to be at the seaside there, but we are very pleased to have him here. May I ask specifically about this concept of some sort of growth deal for mid Wales? We must think in terms of the whole of west Wales, in my view, because we have what’s happening in south Wales, we know about the city regions, and there is something specific in that regard from the Government here and the Government in Westminster. In north Wales, there is this concept of the pan-north Wales, and there are links over the border to England and different agreements with cities there. But there is a void in the middle, and what I’m seeking here from the Cabinet Secretary today is some sort of idea of where this Government stands on that. Do you believe that we should fill that void, or vacuum, with some sort of growth deal for those areas? I know that it has to be grown from the bottom up, but are you eager to see that happening?

Rydym ni yn awyddus, Dirprwy Lywydd, wrth gwrs, ac rydym ni’n awyddus i gefnogi pobl leol sy’n gweithio ar bosibiliadau am y dyfodol. Nid wyf i’n dechrau o rywle ble rwy’n meddwl bod rhaid i bob lle yng Nghymru gael rhyw fath o fargen, ond, ble mae diddordeb gyda phobl leol, a ble maen nhw’n ymwybodol, fel roedd Simon Thomas yn ei ddweud, am sut maen nhw’n mynd i weithio dros y ffin gyda phobl eraill mewn sefyllfa arall, yn Lloegr, neu yng Nghymru, rydym ni’n awyddus fel Llywodraeth i’w cefnogi nhw, i weithio gyda nhw, a gweld os maen nhw’n gallu creu syniadau sy’n mynd i weithio i bobl leol, ble rŷm ni a Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yn gallu helpu i’w hariannu nhw ar gyfer yr uchelgais y maen nhw’n eu greu yno.

We are eager, Deputy Presiding Officer, naturally, and we are eager to support local people who are working on future possibilities. We are not starting from a point where we say every place in Wales has to have some kind of deal, but where local people are interested, and where they are aware, as Simon Thomas said, if they are aware of how they want to engage in cross boundary or broader working with other people, either in England or in Wales, then we as a Government are eager to support them and work with them to see whether it is possible for them to generate ideas that’ll work for local people and where both we and the UK Government can assist in supporting them financially in relation to their ambition.

Is the Cabinet Secretary aware that, on Friday, I spoke at a meeting of the rural division of the Welsh Local Government Association, where I encouraged the councils that were present there—Ceredigion, Powys, Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire, Gwynedd and Anglesey—to work together to develop a broader, place-based rural deal, which they agreed to do? I wondered, in terms of the possibility that the new economic structure to deliver economic development that is supposed to be based on the footprints of city deals, whether the Cabinet Secretary would speak to his economy Secretary to consider the opportunity, further on down the line, if a rural deal is developed, that that new structure may be considered as a new grouping in that new economic structure.

A yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn ymwybodol fy mod wedi siarad, ddydd Gwener, yn un o gyfarfodydd is-adran wledig Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, lle yr anogais y cynghorau a oedd yn bresennol—Ceredigion, Powys, Sir Benfro, Sir Gaerfyrddin, Gwynedd ac Ynys Môn—i gydweithio i ddatblygu bargen wledig ehangach, yn seiliedig ar le, a’u bod wedi cytuno i wneud hynny? O ran y posibilrwydd fod y strwythur economaidd newydd i sicrhau bod datblygu economaidd yn seiliedig ar hanfodion bargeinion dinesig, tybed a fyddai Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn siarad â’i Ysgrifennydd dros yr economi i ystyried y posibilrwydd, yn nes ymlaen, pe bai bargen wledig yn cael ei datblygu, y gellir ystyried y strwythur newydd hwnnw fel grŵp newydd o fewn y strwythur economaidd newydd hwnnw.

I thank Eluned Morgan for that. I was indeed aware of the fact that she was speaking with the WLGA and at the group of rural councils on Friday of last week, and no doubt following up in that discussion the report that she herself put together earlier in the year.

I think the point that I would make is a point that Simon Thomas started with: that we will need some flexibility to allow arrangements that lie under the umbrella of the wider regional arrangements that we are setting up to be able to take root and prosper where those ideas are good ones. In this Chamber, quite often, Sian Gwenllian has raised the need for a regional arrangement that links the whole of the western side of Wales, building on the report that Rhodri Glyn Thomas produced for the Welsh Government about a year or so ago. So there’s another example of where, within the umbrellas of regional arrangements that the Welsh Government is pursuing, we will need some flexibility to allow arrangements that sometimes cut across those boundaries and sometimes operate within them. We’ll need the necessary flexibility to allow those ideas to be pursued and, where possible, to be brought to fruition.

Diolch i Eluned Morgan. Roeddwn yn ymwybodol, yn wir, ei bod wedi bod yn siarad â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ac yn y grŵp o gynghorau gwledig ddydd Gwener diwethaf, a heb os, ei bod wedi mynd ar drywydd adroddiad a luniwyd ganddi hi ei hun yn gynharach yn y flwyddyn yn y drafodaeth honno.

Credaf mai’r pwynt yr hoffwn ei wneud yw’r pwynt a wnaeth Simon Thomas ar y dechrau: y bydd arnom angen rhywfaint o hyblygrwydd er mwyn caniatáu i drefniadau a gwmpesir yn y trefniadau rhanbarthol ehangach rydym yn eu sefydlu allu gwreiddio a ffynnu pan fo’r syniadau hynny’n rhai da. Yn y Siambr hon, yn aml iawn, mae Sian Gwenllian wedi codi’r angen am drefniant rhanbarthol sy’n cysylltu ochr orllewinol Cymru gyda’i gilydd, gan adeiladu ar yr adroddiad a gynhyrchodd Rhodri Glyn Thomas ar gyfer Llywodraeth Cymru oddeutu blwyddyn yn ôl. Felly, dyna enghraifft arall o ble y bydd angen rhywfaint o hyblygrwydd arnom o fewn cwmpas y trefniadau rhanbarthol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn awyddus i’w cael, er mwyn sicrhau trefniadau sydd weithiau’n croesi’r ffiniau hynny ac weithiau’n gweithredu y tu mewn iddynt. Byddwn angen yr hyblygrwydd angenrheidiol i ganiatáu i’r syniadau hynny gael eu harchwilio a’u rhoi ar waith lle y bo modd.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau

Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

We’ll now turn to spokespeople’s questions, and the first spokesperson today is Conservative spokesperson, Nick Ramsay.

Symudwn yn awr at gwestiynau’r llefarwyr, a’r llefarydd cyntaf heddiw yw llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Nick Ramsay.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Cabinet Secretary, this year’s Welsh Government budget represents a milestone in this the twentieth year of devolution. It’s the first budget that will cover a period that will include tax devolution, of land transaction tax and land disposals tax in the first instance, kicking off from April next year. I know that you’ve been heavily involved with me in the Finance Committee in devising those taxes. Can I ask you: can you update us on the rates of the new taxes?

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae cyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru yn garreg filltir eleni a hithau’n ugain mlynedd ers datganoli. Dyma’r gyllideb gyntaf a fydd yn cwmpasu cyfnod a fydd yn cynnwys datganoli trethi, mewn perthynas â threth trafodiadau tir a threth gwarediadau tir i gychwyn, gan ddechrau o fis Ebrill y flwyddyn nesaf ymlaen. Gwn eich bod wedi bod yn gweithio’n agos gyda mi yn y Pwyllgor Cyllid ar lunio’r trethi hynny. A gaf fi ofyn i chi: a allwch roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni ynglŷn â chyfraddau’r trethi newydd?

I suppose it lies under ‘a good try’ sort of question. Llywydd, I will be announcing rates and bands for landfill disposals tax and land transaction tax in the draft budget that I will lay in front of this Assembly on Tuesday of next week, 3 October.

Mae’n debyg mai math o gwestiwn ‘ymgais dda’ oedd hwnnw. Llywydd, byddaf yn cyhoeddi cyfraddau a bandiau ar gyfer y dreth gwarediadau tirlenwi a threth trafodiadau tir yn y gyllideb ddrafft y byddaf yn ei chyflwyno i’r Cynulliad hwn ddydd Mawrth nesaf, 3 Hydref.

I think the Cabinet Secretary knows where I’m coming from on this, because I’ve checked the Welsh Government website page, which you may or may not be aware of, in regard to LTT, which says that the rates and bands will be announced, or were due to be announced, by the end of this month, by October 2017. So, there is not much time left for that announcement. If the information isn’t going to be published by that deadline, then can we be absolutely sure that it will be announced next week in the draft budget, and can we be sure that there will be full detail of the rates and bands as well, and not leaving us waiting for further information further down the line?

Credaf fod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn deall pam rwy’n gofyn, gan fy mod wedi gwirio tudalen ar wefan Llywodraeth Cymru, y mae’n bosibl y byddwch yn ymwybodol ohoni, mewn perthynas â threth trafodiadau tir, sy’n dweud y bydd y cyfraddau a’r bandiau’n cael eu cyhoeddi, neu fod disgwyl iddynt gael eu cyhoeddi, erbyn diwedd y mis hwn, erbyn Hydref 2017. Felly, nid oes llawer o amser ar ôl ar gyfer y cyhoeddiad hwnnw. Os na fydd y wybodaeth yn cael ei chyhoeddi erbyn y dyddiad hwnnw, a allwn fod yn gwbl sicr y caiff ei chyhoeddi yr wythnos nesaf yn y gyllideb ddrafft, ac a allwn fod yn sicr y bydd yn cynnwys yr holl fanylion am y cyfraddau a’r bandiau hefyd, yn hytrach na’i bod yn ein gorfodi i aros am fwy o wybodaeth yn nes ymlaen?

Chair, the Member will be aware, I know, that in correspondence with the chair of the Finance Committee it was agreed that announcements on rates and bands would happen on 3 October as part of a whole-budget package that I will be announcing on the floor of this Assembly next week. I’m very happy to give the Member that assurance that the rates and bands that the Welsh Government proposes will be set out in full on that day.

Cadeirydd, gwn y bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod, mewn gohebiaeth â chadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cyllid, y cytunwyd y byddai’r cyhoeddiadau ar gyfraddau a bandiau yn cael eu gwneud ar 3 Hydref fel rhan o becyn y gyllideb gyfan y byddaf yn ei gyhoeddi ar lawr y Cynulliad yr wythnos nesaf. Rwy’n fwy na pharod i roi sicrwydd i’r Aelod y bydd y cyfraddau a’r bandiau a gynigir gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn cael eu nodi’n llawn ar y diwrnod hwnnw.

As you know, Cabinet Secretary, some of us on the Finance Committee, and indeed other Members of the Chamber in general, did feel that there was a very strong argument at the time for having the tax rates and bands on the face of the Bill, but your commitment at Stage 2 to publish the rates well in advance of April went a long way to allaying these concerns—a commitment that you repeated on 28 March in this Chamber, which, according to the Record, says that you said they would be published by 1 October, and I think that is the commitment that was given to the Finance Committee. [Interruption.] Okay. I’m not going to be pedantic about it at this point, Cabinet Secretary. You have committed to publish those rates and bands next week. I’ve already asked you if you will ensure that we do get the full information. Will you agree with me that the Welsh taxpayer does, at this milestone point of devolution of taxation, need to have full confidence that they do have the information at their disposal in advance of April so that, when we do get to that point of tax devolution, we have the smoothest transition possible, and we get the successful tax devolution that everyone in this Chamber would want.

Fel y gwyddoch, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, roedd rhai ohonom yn y Pwyllgor Cyllid, ac yn wir, rhai o Aelodau eraill y Siambr yn gyffredinol, yn teimlo bod yna ddadl gref iawn ar y pryd dros gynnwys y cyfraddau a’r bandiau treth ar wyneb y Bil, ond roedd eich ymrwymiad yng Nghyfnod 2 i gyhoeddi’r cyfraddau ymhell cyn mis Ebrill yn gwneud llawer i liniaru’r pryderon hyn—ymrwymiad a ailadroddoch ar 28 Mawrth yn y Siambr hon, a nodai, yn ôl y Cofnod, eich bod wedi dweud y byddent yn cael eu cyhoeddi erbyn 1 Hydref, a chredaf mai dyna’r ymrwymiad a roddwyd i’r Pwyllgor Cyllid. [Torri ar draws.] O’r gorau. Nid wyf am fod yn bedantig am y peth ar hyn o bryd, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Rydych wedi ymrwymo i gyhoeddi’r cyfraddau a’r bandiau hynny yr wythnos nesaf. Rwyf eisoes wedi gofyn i chi sicrhau y byddwn yn cael yr holl wybodaeth. Wrth inni gyrraedd y garreg filltir hon o ran datganoli trethi, a ydych yn cytuno fod yn rhaid i drethdalwyr Cymru fod yn hyderus y bydd yr holl wybodaeth ar gael iddynt cyn mis Ebrill er mwyn inni allu sicrhau, pan fyddwn yn cyrraedd y pwynt hwnnw mewn perthynas â datganoli trethi, fod y cyfnod pontio mor ddidrafferth â phosibl, a bod y broses o ddatganoli trethi yn llwyddo yn unol â dymuniadau pawb yn y Siambr hon.

Dirprwy Lywydd, Nick Ramsay has made that point very consistently during the passage of both tax Bills, and in the Finance Committee, that certainty for Welsh taxpayers as we move into the new set of arrangements is very important, as is certainty for businesses. That is why I was happy to make that commitment to make an early announcement on the Government’s intentions in relation to rates and bands, and by announcing it on 3 October in the context of the budget as a whole, I think that that will assist people in understanding why we’ve come to the decisions we have come to. Alongside the budget, we will publish a whole new set of information that has not previously been available to the Assembly, including, for example, the Bangor business school’s independent assessment of the tax forecasting that lies behind the rates and bands that I will be announcing.

Dirprwy Lywydd, mae Nick Ramsay wedi gwneud y pwynt yn gyson iawn yn ystod taith y ddau Fil treth ac yn y Pwyllgor Cyllid, fod y sicrwydd hwnnw i drethdalwyr Cymru wrth inni symud tuag at y set newydd o drefniadau yn bwysig iawn, fel y mae sicrwydd i fusnesau. Dyna pam roeddwn yn fwy na pharod i ymrwymo i wneud cyhoeddiad cynnar ar fwriad y Llywodraeth mewn perthynas â chyfraddau a bandiau, a thrwy gyhoeddi hynny ar 3 Hydref yng nghyd-destun y gyllideb yn gyffredinol, credaf y bydd hynny’n gymorth i bobl ddeall pam ein bod wedi gwneud y penderfyniadau a wnaethom. Ynghyd â’r gyllideb, byddwn yn cyhoeddi set newydd o wybodaeth nad oedd ar gael i’r Cynulliad cyn hyn, gan gynnwys, er enghraifft, asesiad annibynnol ysgol fusnes Bangor o’r rhagolygon treth sydd wrth wraidd y cyfraddau a’r bandiau y byddaf yn eu cyhoeddi.

Thank you. UKIP spokesperson, Neil Hamilton.

Diolch. Llefarydd UKIP, Neil Hamilton.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. As my maternal grandmother was born in Moncton, New Brunswick, I’d like to welcome our distinguished guests in the gallery as well. It makes me quarter a New Brunswicker, I suppose. [Interruption.]

We’ve missed the cheery presence of the Minister for lifelong learning this week, because he’s at the Labour Party conference, where I see he said yesterday, further to John McDonnell’s announcement that Labour are going to end private finance initiative contracts and buy them back, that in Wales there is no PFI. But of course I’m sure the Cabinet Secretary will agree with me that that’s not quite correct. In fact, the total capital value of PFI contracts that are related to the Welsh Government amounts to £565 million, on which the total unitary charges—the amount that they will have all cost by the end of the repayment period—are nearly six times that at £3 billion. Does it not now make sense for the Welsh Government to look into the possibility of refinancing this on a more cost-effective basis?

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Gan fod fy mam-gu ar ochr fy mam wedi’i geni ym Moncton, New Brunswick, hoffwn groesawu ein gwesteion nodedig yn yr oriel hefyd. Mae hynny’n golygu fy mod yn chwarter New Brunswickiad, mae’n debyg. [Torri ar draws.]

Rydym wedi gweld eisiau presenoldeb siriol y Gweinidog dysgu gydol oes yr wythnos hon, gan ei fod yng nghynhadledd y Blaid Lafur, lle y gwelais ei fod wedi dweud ddoe, yn sgil cyhoeddiad John McDonnell y bydd y Blaid Lafur yn dod â chontractau mentrau cyllid preifat i ben ac yn eu prynu yn ôl, nad oes mentrau cyllid preifat yng Nghymru. Ond wrth gwrs, rwy’n siŵr y bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn cytuno â mi nad yw hynny’n hollol gywir. Mewn gwirionedd, mae cyfanswm gwerth cyfalaf y contractau mentrau cyllid preifat sy’n gysylltiedig â Llywodraeth Cymru yn £565 miliwn, gyda chyfanswm y taliadau unedol—y swm y byddant wedi’i gostio erbyn diwedd y cyfnod ad-dalu—bron yn chwe gwaith hynny, ar £3 biliwn. Onid yw’n gwneud synnwyr bellach i Lywodraeth Cymru ystyried y posibilrwydd o ailariannu hyn ar sail fwy costeffeithiol?

Well, Chair, where my colleague Alun Davies was speaking from was the fact that, in the devolution era, we have not signed up to new PFI deals. The Member is right that there are 23 historic PFI deals that pre-date devolution, only two of which are actually ones for which the Welsh Government is directly responsible. Indeed, there are examples in Wales already where organisations that embark on PFI deals have come to the conclusion that they would move to other arrangements. So, we do not have a recent history that we have to unravel in the way that it has to be unravelled in other parts of the United Kingdom, and where other arrangements are better made we’ve also got a track record of seeing those arrangements alter.

Wel, Cadeirydd, yr hyn y cyfeiriai fy nghyd-Aelod, Alun Davies, ato yw’r ffaith nad ydym wedi cytuno i gytundebau mentrau cyllid preifat newydd yn ystod y cyfnod ers datganoli. Mae’r Aelod yn llygad ei le fod gennym 23 o gytundebau mentrau cyllid preifat hanesyddol a ddaw o’r cyfnod cyn datganoli, ond nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru ond yn uniongyrchol gyfrifol am ddau ohonynt. Yn wir, ceir enghreifftiau yng Nghymru eisoes lle y mae sefydliadau sy’n ymrwymo i gytundebau mentrau cyllid preifat wedi dod i’r casgliad y byddent yn newid i drefniadau eraill. Felly, nid oes gennym hanes diweddar y mae’n rhaid inni ei ddatod fel y mae’n rhaid ei ddatod mewn rhannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig, a lle y bo’n well gwneud trefniadau eraill, mae gennym hanes blaenorol o weld y trefniadau hynny’n newid hefyd.

I fully acknowledge that the record of the Welsh Government is far better than the UK Government’s on PFI contracts. Indeed, the total percentage of the unitary charges, the annual repayments, that are going to be made is only 1.7 per cent of the UK total. So, that’s a very good thing. But there’s still a substantial debt that is in gestation for repayment over many years, and reducing the costs of those repayments will, on an annual basis, mean that there is more money to spend upon other good things on which the public sector needs to spend.

Of the projects that are currently outstanding, there’s the A55 from Llandygai to Holyhead; the capital value of that was £100 million. There’s the Lloyd George Avenue and Callaghan Square development here in Cardiff; the capital value of which was originally £45 million. That’s nearly a third of the total outstanding projects by value, on which, for £145 million of capital provided upfront, the repayment costs are nearly £800 million. That’s an appalling deal and the sooner we can unravel these contracts the better.

Rwy’n llwyr gydnabod bod record Llywodraeth Cymru yn llawer gwell na record Llywodraeth y DU mewn perthynas â chontractau mentrau cyllid preifat. Yn wir, 1.7 y cant yn unig o gyfanswm y DU yw canran cyfanswm y taliadau unedol, yr ad-daliadau blynyddol, a fydd yn cael eu gwneud. Felly, mae hynny’n beth da iawn. Ond mae dyled sylweddol o hyd i’w had-dalu dros nifer o flynyddoedd, a bydd gostwng costau’r ad-daliadau hynny, o flwyddyn i flwyddyn, yn golygu bod mwy o arian i’w wario ar bethau da eraill y mae angen i’r sector cyhoeddus wario arnynt.

O’r prosiectau na thalwyd amdanynt ar hyn o bryd, mae’r A55 rhwng Llandygai a Chaergybi; roedd gwerth cyfalaf y prosiect hwnnw’n £100 miliwn. Ceir datblygiad Rhodfa Lloyd George a Sgwâr Callaghan yma yng Nghaerdydd; roedd gwerth cyfalaf gwreiddiol y prosiect hwnnw’n £45 miliwn. Dyna bron i draean o gyfanswm y prosiectau na thalwyd amdanynt o ran gwerth, ac am y £145 miliwn o gyfalaf a ddarparwyd ymlaen llaw, mae’r costau ad-dalu bron yn £800 miliwn. Mae honno’n fargen warthus a gorau po gyntaf y gallwn ddatod y contractau hyn.

The Member has accurately identified the two of the 23 schemes that are the direct Welsh Government schemes, and I don’t disagree with him in the principle of what he has said, that all these schemes need to be kept under review, so that if it is possible to rearrange things to the advantage of the Welsh taxpayer, we will always be open to doing that. As I said, there are examples of that already happening in Wales. So, we’re clearly not inimical to that possibility.

Mae’r Aelod yn llygad ei le wrth nodi, o’r 23 cynllun, y ddau sy’n gynlluniau uniongyrchol Llywodraeth Cymru, ac nid wyf yn anghytuno ag ef o ran egwyddor yr hyn a ddywedodd, fod angen cadw’r holl gynlluniau hyn dan adolygiad, er mwyn sicrhau, os oes modd aildrefnu pethau er budd trethdalwyr Cymru, ein bod bob amser yn agored i wneud hynny. Fel y dywedais, mae enghreifftiau o hynny’n digwydd eisoes yng Nghymru. Felly, mae’n amlwg nad ydym yn gwrthwynebu’r posibilrwydd o wneud hynny.

I’m very pleased to hear that answer from the Cabinet Secretary. Does he agree with me that the Blair and Brown Governments have a great deal to answer for, for the profligacy with which they entered into such contracts with abandon during those locust years, that although the Welsh Government can pride itself on its performance relatively speaking, the performance of Labour Governments at Westminster has been absolutely abysmal? Eighty four per cent of all the PFI contracts that have even been let were let under Blair as Prime Minister or Brown as Prime Minister. So, the Labour Party has quite a stain on its record.

Rwy’n falch iawn o glywed yr ateb hwnnw gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. A yw’n cytuno bod llawer iawn gan Lywodraethau Blair a Brown i ateb drosto, am eu hafradlonedd yn cytuno’n ddi-hid i gontractau o’r fath yn ystod y blynyddoedd anodd hynny, ac er y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ymfalchïo yn ei pherfformiad mewn cymhariaeth, fod perfformiad y Llywodraethau Llafur yn San Steffan wedi bod yn hollol anobeithiol? O’r holl gontractau mentrau cyllid preifat a luniwyd, cafodd wyth deg pedwar y cant ohonynt eu llunio pan oedd Blair yn Brif Weinidog neu Brown yn Brif Weinidog. Felly, mae gan y Blaid Lafur staen go fawr ar ei record.

Well, Llywydd, ‘Aliae gentes, aliae mores’, where other people are responsible for the decisions they made in the circumstances in which they made them. Here in Wales, we faced those same decisions from the very beginning, we took a different view, but the nature of the problem that we were seeking to address may have been different as well.

Wel, Llywydd, ‘Aliae gentes, aliae mores’, lle y mae pobl eraill yn gyfrifol am y penderfyniadau a wnaethant o dan yr amgylchiadau y cawsant eu gwneud ganddynt. Yma yng Nghymru, wynebwyd yr un penderfyniadau gennym o’r cychwyn cyntaf, fe edrychom ni ar bethau o gyfeiriad gwahanol, ond efallai fod natur y broblem y ceisiem fynd i’r afael â hi yn wahanol hefyd.

Thank you. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Adam Price.

Diolch. Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.

I’m very intrigued by this new broad front that’s emerging between John McDonnell and Neil Hamilton; I never thought I’d live to see the day, quite frankly. But, Chair, could I just delve a little bit deeper? I was very interested and listening intently to what the finance Secretary was saying. In the wake of the shadow chancellor’s announcement about bringing these projects back inside the public sector, is it now Labour Party policy in Wales, and therefore of this Government, to bring those existing PFI projects in Wales back in-house, and therefore onto the Welsh Government’s balance sheet in the event of the election of a Labour Government in Westminster?

Mae gennyf gryn ddiddordeb yn y tir cyffredin newydd hwn sy’n ymddangos rhwng John McDonnell a Neil Hamilton; nid oeddwn yn meddwl y byddwn yn byw i weld hynny, mewn gwirionedd. Ond Cadeirydd, a gaf fi balu ychydig yn ddyfnach? Roedd gennyf gryn ddiddordeb, a bûm yn gwrando’n astud ar yr hyn a ddywedodd yr Ysgrifennydd cyllid. Yn sgil cyhoeddiad canghellor yr wrthblaid ynglŷn â dod â’r prosiectau hyn yn ôl i’r sector cyhoeddus, ai polisi’r Blaid Lafur yng Nghymru bellach, ac felly polisi’r Llywodraeth hon, yw dod â’r prosiectau mentrau cyllid preifat presennol yng Nghymru yn ôl yn fewnol, ac felly ar fantolen Llywodraeth Cymru pe bai Llywodraeth Lafur yn cael ei hethol yn San Steffan?

Well, Chair, I’ll repeat what I’ve said earlier because it is very important to get the context of this right. The scale of the issue that we face in Wales is of a very, very different order to the scale faced elsewhere, and the recency of PFI schemes that we would have to address is very different as well. There have been only 23 schemes in Wales and very, very little new PFI in the devolution era, and of those 23, 21 of them are not the direct responsibility of the Welsh Government, belonging to local authorities and to the health service. But we are absolutely open to keeping under continual review whether or not those arrangements could be improved and a better deal secured for the taxpayer, and when we have the next Labour Government, then our ability to do that will be much enhanced.

Wel, Cadeirydd, rwyf am ailadrodd yr hyn a ddywedais yn gynharach gan ei bod yn bwysig inni gael cyd-destun hyn yn gywir. Mae graddau’r broblem sy’n ein hwynebu yng Nghymru yn wahanol tu hwnt i’r broblem a wynebir mewn mannau eraill, ac mae diweddarwch y cynlluniau mentrau cyllid preifat y byddai’n rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â hwy yn wahanol iawn hefyd. Dim ond 23 cynllun a fu yng Nghymru ac ychydig iawn o fentrau cyllid preifat newydd a fu yn y cyfnod ers datganoli, ac o’r 23 cynllun, nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn uniongyrchol gyfrifol am 21 ohonynt gan eu bod yn perthyn i awdurdodau lleol ac i’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Ond rydym yn hollol agored i adolygu’n barhaus a ellid gwella’r trefniadau hynny a sicrhau gwell bargen i’r trethdalwr ai peidio, a phan gawn y Llywodraeth Lafur nesaf, byddwn yn gallu gwneud hynny’n llawer gwell.

Could we turn to the present, then? Because the Welsh Government obviously is involved in the use of public-private partnerships, yes, through the mutual investment model involving a minority share held by the Welsh Government, but the majority share, 75 per cent and above, is held by the private sector, using the Government’s own language, where

‘private partners build and maintain public assets’,

and where

‘the Welsh Government will pay a fee to the private partner, which will cover the cost of construction, maintenance and financing the project.’

Similar schemes in Scotland have been described by the Scottish Labour Party as ‘PFI by another name’. Indeed, the contract for the new A465 project, which has just been laid, is based on the old NHS PFI standard contract. So, can the Cabinet Secretary say whether it is now Labour Party policy in Wales, and Welsh Government policy, to bring the 75 per cent or so of these projects, which will remain in private ownership, back into public ownership in the event of the election of a Labour Government at Westminster?

A gawn ni droi at y presennol, felly? Oherwydd mae’n amlwg fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gysylltiedig â’r defnydd o bartneriaethau cyhoeddus-preifat, ydy, drwy’r model buddsoddi cydfuddiannol sy’n cynnwys cyfran leiafrifol a ddelir gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ond delir y gyfran fwyaf, 75 y cant ac uwch, gan y sector preifat, gan ddefnyddio ieithwedd y Llywodraeth ei hun, lle y gall

partneriaid preifat adeiladu a chynnal asedau cyhoeddus,

a lle

bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn talu ffi i’r partner preifat i dalu costau adeiladu, cynnal a chadw, ac ariannu’r prosiect.

Disgrifiwyd cynlluniau tebyg yn yr Alban gan Blaid Lafur yr Alban fel ‘mentrau cyllid preifat o dan enw arall’. Yn wir, mae’r contract ar gyfer prosiect newydd yr A465, sydd newydd gael ei osod, yn seiliedig ar hen gontract safonol menter cyllid preifat y GIG. Felly, a all Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddweud ai polisi’r Blaid Lafur yng Nghymru a pholisi Llywodraeth Cymru bellach fydd dod â’r oddeutu 75 y cant o’r prosiectau hyn a fydd yn parhau i fod mewn perchnogaeth breifat yn ôl i berchnogaeth gyhoeddus pe bai Llywodraeth Lafur yn cael ei hethol yn San Steffan?

Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, I have never been anything other than clear that I have an approach to capital spending as the Welsh Government’s finance Minister in which my first recourse is always to direct public capital. I’d always rather finance capital projects in that way because that is the cheapest way as far as Welsh taxpayers are concerned. And if I was in the happy position of having sufficient public capital to be able to do all the things that are necessary to secure Wales’s future, including the things that we will do through the mutual investment model, then I would prefer to be able to go ahead in that way. When we have the next Labour Government, then we will be in a much better position to do just that. As it is now, I have to plan for the position I am in today, where we will have, in 2019-20, a capital budget £400 million shorter each year than it was a decade earlier, and urgent needs that have to be met. That’s the context in which we have had to be more imaginative about the way that we secure capital investment in Wales. If I didn’t have to do it, if I had conventional public capital at my disposal with sufficient amounts, then I would always use that first.

Wel, Dirprwy Lywydd, rwyf bob amser wedi dweud yn glir mai fy newis cyntaf bob tro, o ran fy ymagwedd tuag at wariant cyfalaf fel Gweinidog cyllid Llywodraeth Cymru, yw cyfalaf cyhoeddus uniongyrchol. Byddai bob amser yn well gennyf gyllido prosiectau cyfalaf yn y modd hwnnw gan mai dyna’r ffordd rataf i drethdalwyr Cymru. A phe bawn yn y sefyllfa braf o fod â digon o gyfalaf cyhoeddus i allu gwneud yr holl bethau sy’n angenrheidiol er mwyn diogelu dyfodol Cymru, gan gynnwys y pethau y byddwn yn eu gwneud drwy’r model buddsoddi cydfuddiannol, byddai’n well gennyf allu parhau yn y ffordd honno. O dan y Llywodraeth Lafur nesaf, byddwn mewn sefyllfa well o lawer i wneud hynny. Fel y mae ar hyn o bryd, mae’n rhaid i mi gynllunio ar gyfer y sefyllfa rwyf ynddi heddiw, lle y bydd gennym, yn 2019-20, gyllideb gyfalaf o £400 miliwn yn llai bob blwyddyn na’r hyn ydoedd ddegawd yn gynharach, ac anghenion pwysig sy’n rhaid eu diwallu. Yn y cyd-destun hwnnw rydym wedi gorfod bod yn fwy dychmygus o ran y ffordd rydym yn sicrhau buddsoddiad cyfalaf yng Nghymru. Pe na bai’n rhaid i mi ei wneud, pe bai gennyf symiau digonol o gyfalaf cyhoeddus confensiynol ar gael at fy nefnydd, buaswn bob amser yn defnyddio hwnnw yn gyntaf.

You raise another dimension: the creative asymmetry that sometimes, I think, characterises Labour’s policy position, sometimes saying one thing in Westminster or Brighton and another thing in Wales. We did have, I thought, a rather bizarre statement by the Labour leaders of the three largest councils in Wales, where they said they would support strike action by their own council staff against their council against a pay cap that they and their own Labour Government in Wales could lift. So, can the Cabinet Secretary say whether we he will join with his Labour colleagues in saying that he would encourage and support strike action in Wales by public sector workers, or is he prepared to lead by example and lift that pay cap as the Scottish Government has done?

Rydych yn nodi dimensiwn arall: yr anghymesuredd creadigol sydd weithiau’n nodweddu safbwynt polisi Llafur, rwy’n credu, gan ddweud un peth yn San Steffan neu Brighton weithiau a dweud rhywbeth arall yng Nghymru. Yn fy marn i, cawsom ddatganiad braidd yn rhyfedd gan arweinwyr Llafur y tri chyngor mwyaf yng Nghymru, lle roeddent yn dweud y byddent yn cefnogi streic gan eu staff cyngor eu hunain yn erbyn eu cynghorau yn erbyn cap cyflog y gallent hwy a’u Llywodraeth Lafur eu hunain yng Nghymru ei godi. Felly, a all Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddweud a fydd yn ymuno â’i gyd-aelodau Llafur i ddweud y byddai’n annog ac yn cefnogi streic yng Nghymru gan weithwyr y sector cyhoeddus, neu a yw’n barod i arwain drwy esiampl a chodi’r cap cyflog hwnnw fel y mae Llywodraeth yr Alban wedi’i wneud?

Well, Chair, I read very carefully what was said by Labour leaders, and I see that Councillor Andrew Morgan was very clear in saying that his first priority was to avoid strike action, not to encourage strike action; that is our first priority. But he went on to say, as we would say on these benches, that where public sector workers have seen their wages held down year after year after year, and now find themselves going into the eighth and ninth year of austerity, that it is absolutely understandable that people feel that they have to make the impact that that has on their lives apparent to others. Our position in relation to the pay cap is as clear as can be. We say to the UK Government, ‘You must lift the pay cap. This is your policy. You are responsible for it. You must lift the pay cap, and you must provide the money that would allow public sector workers in Wales to find their wages increased in line with the value that we attach to the work that they do.’

Wel, Cadeirydd, darllenais yr hyn a ddywedodd yr arweinwyr Llafur yn ofalus iawn, a gwelaf fod y Cynghorydd Andrew Morgan wedi dweud yn glir iawn mai ei flaenoriaeth gyntaf ef oedd osgoi streic, yn hytrach nag annog streic; dyna yw ein blaenoriaeth gyntaf ninnau. Ond aeth yn ei flaen i ddweud, fel y byddem yn ei ddweud ar y meinciau hyn, ei bod yn gwbl ddealladwy, pan fo cyflogau gweithwyr y sector cyhoeddus yn cael eu cadw i lawr flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn, ac o dan fesurau cyni am yr wythfed a’r nawfed flwyddyn bellach, fod pobl yn teimlo bod yn rhaid iddynt dynnu sylw eraill at yr effaith y mae hynny’n ei chael ar eu bywydau. Mae ein safbwynt mewn perthynas â’r cap cyflog mor glir â phosibl. Rydym yn dweud wrth Lywodraeth y DU, ‘Mae’n rhaid i chi godi’r cap cyflog. Eich polisi chi yw hwn. Chi sy’n gyfrifol amdano. Mae’n rhaid i chi godi’r cap cyflog, ac mae’n rhaid i chi ddarparu’r arian a fyddai’n caniatàu i gyflogau gweithwyr y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru gynyddu’n unol â’r gwerth rydym yn ei roi ar y gwaith y maent yn ei wneud.’

Thank you. We return to questions on the agenda paper, and it’s question 3, Jayne Bryant.

Diolch. Dychwelwn at y cwestiynau ar yr agenda, a daw cwestiwn 3 gan Jayne Bryant.

Cyllid Llywodraeth Leol ar gyfer 2018-19

Local Government Funding for 2018-19

3. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddatganiad am gyllid llywodraeth leol ar gyfer 2018-19? (OAQ51076)

3. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on local government funding for 2018-19? (OAQ51076)

I will announce the provisional local government settlement for 2018-19 on 10 October.

Byddaf yn cyhoeddi’r setliad llywodraeth leol dros dro ar gyfer 2018-19 ar 10 Hydref.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Since 2010, the austerity agenda of the UK Government has seen an overall Welsh Government budget cut by 8.2 per cent. In that time, local government in England has suffered real-term cuts of 25 per cent in their revenue budgets and, conversely, the Welsh Government has limited cuts to local government here to 5 per cent over the same period. We’re now in year 8 of the Westminster-imposed austerity and local authorities are under severe budgetary pressure. With further significant cuts to the Welsh Government budget projected over the coming years, what more can the Cabinet Secretary do to help local government to protect key services?

Diolch, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Ers 2010, mae agenda cyni Llywodraeth y DU wedi arwain at doriadau o 8.2 y cant i gyfanswm cyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru. Yn y cyfnod hwnnw, mae llywodraeth leol yn Lloegr wedi wynebu toriadau o 25 y cant mewn termau real i’w cyllidebau refeniw, ac i’r gwrthwyneb, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cyfyngu’r toriadau i lywodraeth leol yma i 5 y cant dros yr un cyfnod. Bellach, rydym yn yr wythfed flwyddyn o fesurau cyni wedi’u gorfodi gan San Steffan ac mae awdurdodau lleol o dan bwysau cyllidebol difrifol. Gan y rhagwelir rhagor o doriadau sylweddol i gyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru dros y blynyddoedd i ddod, beth arall y gall Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ei wneud i gynorthwyo llywodraeth leol i ddiogelu gwasanaethau allweddol?

Dirprwy Lywydd, the first thing that this Government did was to provide Welsh local government in the current financial year, partly as a result of our agreement with Plaid Cymru, with a no-cash-cuts budget for the first time in many years. I made it clear—I couldn’t have repeated it more often, I think—to local government colleagues that the breathing space that that budget provided needed to be used to plan for tougher times and harder choices that lie ahead. And I have to say that to them because the resources available to the Welsh Government go down every year in this Assembly term, and it is simply the reality with which we have to grapple that if the resources available to us to invest in public services reduce—vitally important public services that local authorities provide—that will have an impact on the budgets we can make available to them. I can assure the Member that in the budget round that I will report on Tuesday of next week, we have worked as hard as we can to protect those services on which people rely, but I would not be sending a message out to colleagues in Wales that had a ring of truth about it if I didn’t repeat to them that the years ahead are going to be very challenging.

Dirprwy Lywydd, y peth cyntaf a wnaeth y Llywodraeth hon, yn rhannol o ganlyniad i’n cytundeb gyda Phlaid Cymru, oedd darparu cyllideb heb doriadau arian parod yn y flwyddyn ariannol gyfredol i lywodraeth leol yng Nghymru am y tro cyntaf ers sawl blwyddyn. Dywedais yn glir—ni chredaf y gallwn fod wedi ei ailadrodd yn amlach—wrth gydweithwyr llywodraeth leol fod angen defnyddio’r lle i anadlu a ddarperir gan y gyllideb honno i gynllunio ar gyfer adegau anoddach a dewisiadau anoddach yn y dyfodol. Ac mae’n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny wrthynt gan fod llai a llai o adnoddau ar gael i Lywodraeth Cymru bob blwyddyn yn nhymor y Cynulliad hwn, ac os bydd llai o adnoddau ar gael i’w buddsoddi mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus—gwasanaethau cyhoeddus hollbwysig a ddarperir gan awdurdodau lleol—y realiti sy’n rhaid inni ei dderbyn yw y bydd hynny’n effeithio ar y cyllidebau y gallwn eu darparu ar eu cyfer. Gallaf roi sicrwydd i’r Aelod ein bod wedi gweithio mor galed ag y gallwn yn y cylch cyllidebol y byddaf yn ei gyhoeddi ddydd Mawrth nesaf, i ddiogelu’r gwasanaethau y mae pobl yn dibynnu arnynt, ond ni fuaswn yn anfon neges o wirionedd at gydweithwyr yng Nghymru pe na bawn yn ailadrodd wrthynt y bydd y blynyddoedd sydd i ddod yn rhai heriol iawn.

Cabinet Secretary, I heard your answer to Jayne just now. Further to that, Welsh Government figures reveal that spending on central administration by local authorities is increasing by £11 million this year. Meanwhile, across Wales, budgets for roads and libraries are set to fall by nearly £6.73 million. The central running cost is rising and spending on vital public services is falling. What consideration will the Cabinet Secretary give to this matter when he decides the local government funding settlement for 2018-19, please?

Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, clywais eich ateb i Jayne yn awr. Yn ychwanegol at hynny, dengys ffigurau Llywodraeth Cymru fod gwariant awdurdodau lleol ar weinyddu canolog yn cynyddu £11 miliwn eleni. Yn y cyfamser, ledled Cymru, bydd cyllidebau ar gyfer ffyrdd a llyfrgelloedd yn gostwng bron £6.73 miliwn. Mae costau gweithredu canolog yn cynyddu ac mae gwariant ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus hanfodol yn gostwng. Pa ystyriaeth y bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn ei roi i’r mater hwn pan fydd yn pennu setliad cyllid llywodraeth leol ar gyfer 2018-19, os gwelwch yn dda?

Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, in my discussions with local authority leaders, I believe that, across different parties, they work very hard to try to make sure that they can move as much of their funding as possible into front-line services and to minimise the take from their resources spent on administration. In the local government reforms that I have announced on the floor of this Assembly, you will know that we intend to make a serious push with our local authority colleagues on backroom services, on shared services, on trying to make sure that the money that is needed to support services centrally is minimised so that that money can be deployed at the front line. That’s a conversation that I believe local authorities in Wales are very open to having, and I intend to go on having it with them.

Wel, Dirprwy Lywydd, yn fy nhrafodaethau gydag arweinwyr awdurdodau lleol ar draws y gwahanol bleidiau, credaf eu bod yn gweithio’n galed iawn i geisio sicrhau eu bod yn gallu darparu cymaint o’u cyllid â phosibl ar gyfer gwasanaethau rheng flaen a lleihau’r swm o arian sy’n mynd o’u hadnoddau i’w wario ar weinyddu. Yn y diwygiadau i lywodraeth leol a gyhoeddais ar lawr y Cynulliad hwn, fe fyddwch yn gwybod ein bod yn bwriadu ymdrechu’n galed gyda’n cydweithwyr yn yr awdurdodau lleol mewn perthynas â gwasanaethau ystafell gefn, cydwasanaethau, a cheisio sicrhau bod angen cyn lleied o arian â phosibl i gefnogi’r gwasanaethau’n ganolog, fel y gellir defnyddio’r arian hwnnw ar y rheng flaen. Credaf fod yr awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru yn agored iawn i gael y sgwrs honno, ac rwy’n bwriadu parhau i’w chael gyda hwy.

Monitro Effeithiolrwydd Gwariant

Monitoring the Effectiveness of Spend

4. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet amlinellu sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn monitro effeithiolrwydd gwariant ar draws ei chyllideb? (OAQ51058)

4. Will the Cabinet Secretary outline how the Welsh Government monitors the effectiveness of spend across its budget? (OAQ51058)

I thank the Member for the question. All Ministers draw on a range of evidence to monitor effectiveness of spend. New policies and programmes are subject to the rigorous scrutiny process set out in the Treasury Green Book. I monitor all existing spend across Government according to a monthly cycle.

Diolch i’r Aelod am y cwestiwn. Mae’r holl Weinidogion yn defnyddio ystod o dystiolaeth i fonitro effeithiolrwydd gwariant. Mae Llyfr Gwyrdd y Trysorlys yn nodi’r broses graffu drylwyr ar gyfer polisïau a rhaglenni newydd. Rwy’n monitro’r holl wariant presennol ar draws y Llywodraeth ar sail cylch misol.

I’m grateful to the Cabinet Secretary for his answer. Now, it’s been brought to my attention recently that the Welsh Government has invested in certain marine projects off the coast of Pembrokeshire, one of which will be in the ownership of a local authority based in England. Now, some of my constituents are concerned that, if projects in Wales are run by local authorities outside Wales, then we could end up where places like Pembrokeshire and indeed the whole of Wales don’t actually get the benefits from such projects. Now, I raised this issue with your colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs yesterday, but can you tell us how you, as the Cabinet Secretary responsible for finance, are making sure that any grant funding provided to projects across all Government departments will be reinvested in Welsh communities? And can you tell us how your department is monitoring the effectiveness of such projects to make sure that communities here in Wales actually benefit from publicly invested money by the Welsh Government?

Diolch i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet am ei ateb. Nawr, tynnwyd fy sylw yn ddiweddar at y ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi buddsoddi mewn rhai prosiectau morol oddi ar arfordir Sir Benfro, gydag un ohonynt yn eiddo i awdurdod lleol yn Lloegr. Nawr, os yw prosiectau yng Nghymru yn cael eu gweithredu gan awdurdodau lleol o’r tu allan i Gymru, mae rhai o fy etholwyr yn pryderu y gallem fod mewn sefyllfa lle nad yw lleoedd fel Sir Benfro, ac yn wir, Cymru gyfan, yn cael y budd o brosiectau o’r fath. Nawr, trafodais y mater hwn ddoe gyda’ch cyd-Aelod, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Amgylchedd a Materion Gwledig, ond a allwch ddweud wrthym sut rydych chi, fel Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet sy’n gyfrifol am gyllid, yn sicrhau y bydd unrhyw arian grant a ddarperir i brosiectau ar draws holl adrannau’r Llywodraeth yn cael ei ailfuddsoddi yng nghymunedau Cymru? A allwch ddweud wrthym sut y mae eich adran yn monitro effeithiolrwydd prosiectau o’r fath i sicrhau bod cymunedau yma yng Nghymru yn elwa mewn gwirionedd o arian cyhoeddus a fuddsoddir gan Lywodraeth Cymru?

Thank you to Paul Davies for the question. He makes an important point. I heard his exchange with Ken Skates yesterday. There is a series of actions that we take as a Welsh Government to try to make sure that the spend that is invested in activity in Wales through the Welsh Government and our partners has the maximum impact on the wider economy. The National Procurement Service, for example, in the years that it has been in existence, has more than doubled the amount of common and repetitive spending that goes to Welsh firms compared to the year before it came into existence. In relation to the specific point that he makes, I intend, through the local government reforms that we are bringing about, to provide local authorities with a general power of competence, which will allow them to do more things than local authorities in Wales are able to do at present, including some commercial activity, which local authorities across our border have been able to become involved in. That has to be done sensitively and carefully, otherwise it leads you into a different sort of difficulty, but, by making sure that our local authorities have the scope to do more than they are able to do at the moment, it will be another way in which we can make sure that the resources they have and we have are invested in ways that continue to show a return for local people in Wales.

Diolch i Paul Davies am y cwestiwn. Mae’n gwneud pwynt pwysig. Clywais ei ddadl gyda Ken Skates ddoe. Fel Llywodraeth Cymru rydym yn rhoi cyfres o gamau ar waith i geisio sicrhau bod y gwariant a fuddsoddir mewn gweithgarwch yng Nghymru drwy Lywodraeth Cymru a’n partneriaid yn cael yr effaith fwyaf posibl ar yr economi ehangach. Mae’r Gwasanaeth Caffael Cenedlaethol, er enghraifft, yn y blynyddoedd y mae wedi bodoli, wedi mwy na dyblu’r gwariant cyffredin ac ailadroddus ar gwmnïau Cymreig o gymharu â’r flwyddyn cyn ei sefydlu. Mewn perthynas â’r pwynt penodol a wnaed ganddo, drwy’r diwygiadau rydym yn eu gwneud i lywodraeth leol, rwy’n bwriadu darparu pŵer cymhwysedd cyffredinol i awdurdodau lleol i ganiatáu iddynt wneud mwy o bethau nag y gall awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru eu gwneud ar hyn o bryd, gan gynnwys rhywfaint o weithgarwch masnachol, sy’n rhywbeth y mae awdurdodau lleol dros y ffin wedi gallu ei wneud. Mae’n rhaid gwneud hynny mewn modd sensitif a gofalus, neu gall arwain at anhawster o fath gwahanol, ond drwy sicrhau bod gan ein hawdurdodau lleol fodd o wneud mwy nag y gallant ar hyn o bryd, bydd yn ffordd arall iddynt allu sicrhau bod eu hadnoddau sydd ganddynt a’r adnoddau sydd gennym ni yn cael eu buddsoddi mewn ffyrdd sy’n parhau i sicrhau canlyniadau i bobl leol yng Nghymru.

There are many budget review techniques that are available to look at budgets. Has the finance Secretary considered introducing zero-based budgeting to functional areas so people have to re-prove the need for some of the expenditure that’s taking place?

Mae llawer o dechnegau adolygu cyllidebau ar gael er mwyn edrych ar gyllidebau. A yw’r Ysgrifennydd cyllid wedi ystyried cyflwyno cyllidebu ar sail sero mewn meysydd gweithredol fel bod yn rhaid i bobl ailbrofi’r angen am rywfaint o’r gwariant sy’n digwydd?

Thank you to Mike Hedges for the question. I’m aware, of course, of zero-based budgeting and how it can make sure that budgets are built up again from the base and how every aspect of spend is properly challenged. We did use a form of zero-based budgeting in bringing forward our four-year capital programme this time last year, by looking again at all the different schemes that were in the pipeline and making sure that the ones that we were able to fund were at the top end of our priorities. And my colleague Vaughan Gething has been involved in some zero-based budgeting activities within the national health service. So, Dirprwy Lywydd, we are always interested in using techniques to make sure that we align our spend with our top priorities and zero-based budgeting is one of the potential tools that we will keep under review in trying to do just that.

Diolch i Mike Hedges am ei gwestiwn. Rwy’n ymwybodol, wrth gwrs, o gyllidebu ar sail sero a sut y gall sicrhau bod cyllidebau’n cael eu hadeiladu eto o’r sylfaen a sut y mae pob agwedd ar wariant yn cael ei herio’n briodol. Defnyddiwyd ffurf o gyllidebu ar sail sero gennym wrth gyflwyno ein rhaglen gyfalaf bedair blynedd yr adeg hon y llynedd, drwy edrych eto ar yr holl gynlluniau gwahanol a oedd ar y gweill a sicrhau ein bod yn blaenoriaethu’r rhai roedd modd inni eu hariannu. Ac mae fy nghyd-Aelod Vaughan Gething wedi ymwneud â rhai o’r gweithgareddau cyllidebu ar sail sero o fewn y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Felly, Dirprwy Lywydd, mae gennym bob amser ddiddordeb mewn defnyddio technegau i sicrhau ein bod yn alinio ein gwariant gyda’n prif flaenoriaethau, ac mae cyllidebu ar sail sero yn un o’r dulliau posibl y byddwn yn eu hadolygu’n barhaus wrth geisio gwneud hynny.

Cyflawni Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus

Delivery of Public Services

5. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddatganiad am gyflawni gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru? (OAQ51056)

5. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the delivery of public services in Wales? (OAQ51056)

I thank Darren Millar for that. Good public services play a vitally important role in the lives of all citizens in Wales. Each and every one of us has a direct interest in shaping how public services are delivered.

Diolch i Darren Millar. Mae gwasanaethau cyhoeddus da yn rhan hollbwysig o fywydau pob un o ddinasyddion Cymru. Mae gan bob un ohonom ddiddordeb uniongyrchol mewn llunio’r modd y caiff gwasanaethau cyhoeddus eu darparu.

Cabinet Secretary, one of the things that can hinder the delivery of public services is incidence of fraud in the public purse. Many people will have been aware of the concerns that have been raised in respect of some issues in Cardiff and Vale University Local Health Board, and, indeed, there have been others within the NHS, including in the Betsi Cadwaladr University Local Health Board also in recent years, in terms of its management of some of the capital expenditure in that particular health board at Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. What specific action is the Welsh Government taking to ensure that taxpayers can be sure that they’re not being ripped off as a result of incidents of fraud? What safeguards are you putting in place, and are you considering the safeguards that are already there as a result of these latest stories?

Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, un o’r pethau a all rwystro’r modd y caiff gwasanaethau cyhoeddus eu darparu yw achosion o dwyll ym mhwrs y wlad. Bydd llawer o bobl yn ymwybodol o’r pryderon a godwyd mewn perthynas â rhai materion ym Mwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Caerdydd a’r Fro, ac yn wir, cafwyd achosion eraill yn y GIG, gan gynnwys Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr hefyd dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, o ran y gwaith o reoli rhywfaint o’r gwariant cyfalaf yn y bwrdd iechyd penodol hwnnw yn Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. Pa gamau penodol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i sicrhau y gall trethdalwyr fod yn sicr nad ydynt yn dioddef o ganlyniad i dwyll? Pa fesurau diogelwch a roddir ar waith gennych, ac a ydych yn ystyried y mesurau diogelwch sydd ar waith eisoes o ganlyniad i’r straeon diweddaraf hyn?

Well, can I just agree with Darren Millar that fraud is corrosive of public trust? It has a direct impact on the resources available to authorities for public services, and very often, at the individual level, fraud is practiced on those people least able to deal with its consequences. So, as a Government, we take fraud very seriously for all those reasons.

On Friday of last week, I was able to address the annual conference of those people who work in the fraud field here in Wales, where there were speakers from outside Wales as well, all of it designed to try to find new and better ways in which fraud in our public services and in other aspects of public life in Wales can be addressed. It’s a challenge, Dirprwy Lywydd. If you were there in that audience and hearing people speak, you would know that fraud is the single fastest growing set of offences across the United Kingdom, and there are always new possibilities. For all the fantastic advantages that the internet and other forms of electronic communication bring, they offer new opportunities up for crime and for fraud as well. So, the Welsh Government has a very direct interest in bearing down on this, on learning the lessons of examples where fraud is uncovered just to make sure that we can block loopholes and make sure that it doesn’t happen again, and in trying to make sure that our workforce, who work so very hard in this area, are fully equipped and kept in touch with developments in other parts of the United Kingdom to help us all in the business of combatting fraud.

Wel, a gaf fi gytuno â Darren Millar fod twyll yn amharu ar ymddiriedaeth y cyhoedd? Mae’n effeithio’n uniongyrchol ar yr adnoddau sydd ar gael i awdurdodau ar gyfer gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, ac yn aml iawn, ar lefel yr unigolyn, y bobl sydd leiaf abl i ymdrin â chanlyniadau twyll yw’r rhai sy’n cael eu twyllo. Felly, fel Llywodraeth, rydym o ddifrif ynglŷn â thwyll am yr holl resymau hynny.

Ddydd Gwener diwethaf, cefais gyfle i annerch y gynhadledd flynyddol ar gyfer y bobl sy’n gweithio ym maes twyll yma yng Nghymru, lle roedd yna siaradwyr o’r tu allan i Gymru hefyd, ac roedd popeth wedi’i gynllunio i geisio dod o hyd i ffyrdd newydd a gwell o fynd i’r afael â thwyll yn ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ac agweddau eraill ar fywyd cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Mae’n her, Dirprwy Lywydd. Pe baech chi yno yn y gynulleidfa yn gwrando ar bobl yn siarad, buasech yn gwybod mai twyll yw’r set o droseddau sy’n tyfu gyflymaf ledled y Deyrnas Unedig, ac mae posibiliadau newydd yn codi drwy’r amser. Er holl fanteision gwych y rhyngrwyd a mathau eraill o gyfathrebu electronig, maent yn darparu cyfleoedd newydd i droseddu ac ar gyfer twyll. Felly, mae’n fuddiol iawn i Lywodraeth Cymru fod yn fwy llym yn hyn o beth, o ran dysgu gwersi drwy enghreifftiau lle y datgelir twyll er mwyn sicrhau y gallwn gau bylchau yn y gyfraith a sicrhau nad yw’n digwydd eto, a cheisio sicrhau bod ein gweithlu, sy’n gweithio mor galed yn y maes hwn, wedi’u paratoi ac yn ymwybodol o’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am ddatblygiadau mewn rhannau eraill o’r Deyrnas Unedig er mwyn cynorthwyo pob un ohonom yn y frwydr yn erbyn twyll.

Schools are a very important part of the public services we provide and I congratulate the Welsh Government on its funding for the twenty-first century schools programme. Would the finance Secretary congratulate Cardiff Council on the planned new joint building of Ysgol Glan Ceubal Welsh-language primary school and Gabalfa Primary School in my constituency of Cardiff North? I attended the turf-cutting ceremony last week for these two new schools. What plans does the Welsh Government have to continue funding these exemplary new buildings across Wales?

Mae ysgolion yn rhan bwysig iawn o’r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a ddarparwn a hoffwn longyfarch Llywodraeth Cymru ar ei chyllid i raglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. A wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Cyllid longyfarch Cyngor Caerdydd ar yr adeilad newydd arfaethedig ar y cyd ar gyfer ysgol gynradd Gymraeg Glan Ceubal ac Ysgol Gynradd Gabalfa yn fy etholaeth yng Nghaerdydd? Mynychais seremoni torri’r dywarchen ar gyfer y ddwy ysgol newydd hon yr wythnos diwethaf. Pa gynlluniau sydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i barhau i ariannu’r adeiladau newydd rhagorol hyn ledled Cymru?

I thank Julie Morgan for that, and absolutely associate myself with her congratulations to all those involved in the development of Ysgol Glan Ceubal. It’s fantastic to see a new Welsh-medium facility in that part of the city, alongside the Gabalfa Primary School. It’s been made possible by the local government borrowing initiative, which my predecessor in this post, Jane Hutt, established, and where we’ve been able to support £170 million-worth of spend by local authorities in the first tranche of the twenty-first century schools programme. We are now actively planning band B of that programme, through the mutual investment model, where we hope to be able to support new building of new schools across Wales to the value of up to £500 million.

Diolch i Julie Morgan, ac ategaf ei llongyfarchiadau i bawb sy’n ymwneud â’r gwaith o ddatblygu Ysgol Glan Ceubal. Mae’n wych gweld cyfleuster cyfrwng Cymraeg newydd yn y rhan honno o’r ddinas, ochr yn ochr ag Ysgol Gynradd Gabalfa. Fe’i gwnaed yn bosibl drwy fenter benthyca llywodraeth leol a sefydlwyd gan fy rhagflaenydd yn y swydd hon, Jane Hutt, a lle rydym wedi gallu cefnogi gwerth £170 miliwn o wariant gan awdurdodau lleol yn rhan gyntaf y rhaglen ysgolion ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Bellach, rydym wrthi’n cynllunio band B y rhaglen honno, drwy’r model buddsoddi cydfuddiannol, lle rydym yn gobeithio gallu cefnogi’r gwaith o adeiladu ysgolion newydd gwerth hyd at £500 miliwn ledled Cymru.

Yn unol â Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau’r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015 mae angen sefydlu byrddau gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ym mhob awdurdod lleol, ac mae angen i bob bwrdd asesu cyflwr economaidd, cymdeithasol, amgylcheddol a diwylliannol ei fro a chyhoeddi canlyniadau’r asesu, a chyhoeddi cynllun llesiant a fydd yn amlinellu amcanion lleol yn ôl nodau’r Ddeddf, ynghyd â modd o’u cyflawni. Hoffwn i wybod sut mae’r gwaith yma’n mynd yn ei flaen a pha mor effeithiol ydy’r gwaith o safbwynt cyfrannu at y nod llesiant yn benodol.

In accordance with the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 we need to establish public services boards in all local authorities, and each board needs to assess the economic, social, environmental and cultural state of the area and publish the results of those assessments, and publish a well-being plan that will outline local objectives according to the goals of the Act, as well as a means of achieving those. I’d like to know how this work is developing and how effective it is from the point of view of contributing to the well-being goal in particular.

Wel, diolch yn fawr i Sian Gwenllian am y cwestiwn yna. Mae hi’n tynnu sylw at y gwaith sy’n mynd ymlaen yn y maes yma.

I’ve been encouraged, Dirprwy Lywydd, myself, by the work the public services boards have done in making their well-being assessments. I’ve had an opportunity to read quite a few of them. I think, if we’re being completely frank, you would say that they’re the hallmark of so much of what we know about the way that things happen in Wales. There are very good examples in some aspects of the plans everywhere—probably not very many that are good right across the whole range of things that they were asked to encompass within that assessment. So, you can go—. I don’t want to start taking examples out of the air, Llywydd, but, if you were to go to Caerphilly’s, for example, it’s a really excellent example of public engagement and a really excellent example of how it’s captured the cultural dimension of well-being, and then it’s not so strong in other aspects, and other local boards have been better in different ways.

So, the really key thing is now to learn from this first round of them, to keep those assessments as documents that are alive, that people refresh them, that they learn from one another, and that they move purposefully on to the next stage, as Sian Gwenllian said, which is to move from the assessment of well-being needs to planning for how those needs are to be met. My aim, working with local authority colleagues, will be to try and make sure that, where the fastest progress has been made, that learning is passed on to others and we get a movement across Wales so that all these plans can be as good as they possibly can be.

Well, thank you very much, Sian Gwenllian, for that question and for drawing attention to the work that is ongoing in this field.

Dirprwy Lywydd, i mi, mae’r gwaith a wnaed gan y byrddau gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ar gyflawni eu hasesiadau lles yn galonogol iawn. Rwyf wedi cael cyfle i ddarllen nifer go lew ohonynt. A bod yn hollol onest, credaf y gallech ddweud eu bod yn nodweddiadol o gymaint o’r hyn a wyddom ynglŷn â’r ffordd y mae pethau’n digwydd yng Nghymru. Ceir enghreifftiau da iawn mewn perthynas â rhai agweddau ar y cynlluniau ym mhobman—mae’n debyg nad oes llawer sy’n dda ar draws yr holl ystod o bethau y gofynnwyd iddynt eu cwmpasu yn yr asesiad. Felly, gallwch fynd—. Nid wyf am ddechrau crybwyll enghreifftiau o ddim, Llywydd, ond pe baech yn mynd i Gaerffili, er enghraifft, mae’n enghraifft wych o ymgysylltu â’r cyhoedd ac yn enghraifft ragorol o sut y maent wedi llwyddo i gyfleu dimensiwn diwylliannol lles, ac eto, nid yw mor gryf mewn agweddau eraill, ac mae byrddau lleol eraill wedi bod yn well mewn gwahanol ffyrdd.

Felly, y peth gwirioneddol allweddol yn awr yw dysgu o’r rownd gyntaf hon ohonynt, a chadw’r asesiadau hyn fel dogfennau byw, fod pobl yn eu hadnewyddu, eu bod yn dysgu oddi wrth ei gilydd, a’u bod yn symud yn bwrpasol i’r cam nesaf, fel y dywedodd Sian Gwenllian, sef symud o asesu anghenion lles i gynllunio sut y gellir diwallu’r anghenion hynny. Fy nod, wrth weithio gyda chydweithwyr yn yr awdurdodau lleol, fydd ceisio sicrhau, lle y gwnaed y cynnydd cyflymaf, y caiff y gwersi hynny eu trosglwyddo i eraill ac y byddwn yn gweld symudiad ledled Cymru fel y gall y cynlluniau hyn fod mor dda ag y gallant fod.

Egwyddorion Buddsoddi i Arbed

Invest-to-save Principles

6. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddatganiad am egwyddorion buddsoddi i arbed? (OAQ51070)[W]

6. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on invest-to-save principles? (OAQ51070)[W]

Diolch, wrth gwrs, am y cwestiwn. Mae cyllid buddsoddi i arbed yn cael ei ddefnyddio yn unol â chyfres o egwyddorion sy’n cynnwys y canlynol: darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus gwell, creu arbedion sylweddol sy’n rhyddhau arian, annog mwy o gydweithredu rhwng cyrff a gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, a rhannu gwersi a ddysgwyd a’r arferion gorau.

Thank you for that question. Invest-to-save funds are deployed against principles, which include delivering improved public services, generating significant cash-releasing savings, encouraging greater collaboration between public service bodies, and disseminating lessons learned and best practice.

Diolch am yr ymateb yna. Mi hoffwn i awgrymu wrth yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet y byddai buddsoddi mewn datblygu addysg feddygol israddedig gynhwysfawr yn y gogledd—hynny ydy, yn cynnwys myfyrwyr blwyddyn gyntaf, a reit trwy eu hastudiaethau—yn enghraifft wych o weithredu egwyddorion buddsoddi i arbed. Rydym ni’n gwybod bod bwrdd iechyd Betsi Cadwaladr wedi gwario £80 miliwn ar locyms yn y tair blynedd diwethaf. Rhywsut, mae’n rhaid torri’r cylch dieflig yma, ac mi fyddai buddsoddi, rydw i’n meddwl, mewn hyfforddi meddygon yn lleol yn gyfraniad mawr at hynny. Nid ysgol feddygol lawn annibynnol yr ydym ni’n gofyn amdani hi, gyda llaw; efallai y daw hynny maes o law. Ond, tra bod yna bob mathau o resymau bod angen y datblygiad yma, er bod y Llywodraeth ddim fel petaen nhw’n gweld hynny hyd yn hyn—i’r Ysgrifennydd cyllid yn benodol, rydw i’n apelio am iddo fo gydnabod a gweld hyn fel enghraifft o fuddsoddiad synhwyrol rŵan er mwyn creu buddiannau hirdymor.

Thank you for that response. I would like to suggest to the Cabinet Secretary that investing in developing medical education at an undergraduate level on a comprehensive level in north Wales—that is, including first-year students, and all the way through their studies—would be an excellent example of implementing the principles of invest-to-save. We know that Betsi Cadwaladr health board spent £80 million on locums over the past three years, and somehow we must break that vicious cycle, and investing in training doctors locally would be a huge contribution towards that. We not talking about a full, independent medical school here; that may come in due time, of course. But, whilst there are all sorts of reasons as to why this development is needed, although the Government doesn’t seem to understand that to date—but to the finance Secretary specifically, I appeal to him to recognise this and to see this as an example of sensible investment now in order to create long-term benefits.

Wel, Dirprwy Lywydd, wrth gwrs, rydw i’n clywed yr achos mae’r Aelod yn ei wneud, ac rydw i’n cydnabod beth mae e’n ei ddweud am sut mae’r arian yn cael ei wario yn y gogledd ar hyn o bryd. Bydd e’n awyddus i wybod, rydw i’n siŵr, fy mod i wedi cael cyfarfod y bore yma gyda’r Ysgrifennydd gyda chyfrifoldeb dros iechyd i drafod y datblygiadau yn y gogledd.

Well, Deputy Presiding Officer, I hear the case the Member is making and I acknowledge what he says about the way in which the money is spent in north Wales at present. He will be eager to know, I’m certain, that a meeting was held this morning with the Secretary with responsibility for health to discuss the developments in north Wales.

Cabinet Secretary, I know Members will be pleased to hear that an independent review found that for every £1 invested, about £3 in savings followed. That is really good and a sign of profound innovation. We want more of that. However, housing has only received 0.4 per cent of the investment of nearly £14 million under the scheme so far. I just wonder if you’re going to look at possible ways that the housing sector could benefit, perhaps by reducing upfront costs for the building of homes, and particularly measures to support high energy efficiency standards. They have a big impact on the health and well-being of the tenants and people who then live in those houses.

Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, gwn y bydd yr Aelodau’n falch o glywed bod adolygiad annibynnol wedi canfod bod pob £1 a fuddsoddwyd wedi arwain at oddeutu £3 mewn arbedion. Mae hynny’n wirioneddol dda ac yn arwydd o gryn arloesedd. Rydym yn awyddus i weld mwy o hynny. Fodd bynnag, 0.4 y cant yn unig o fuddsoddiad o bron £14 miliwn y mae tai wedi’i gael o dan y cynllun hyd yn hyn. Tybed a wnewch chi edrych ar ffyrdd posibl y gallai’r sector tai elwa, efallai drwy leihau costau cychwynnol adeiladu cartrefi, ac yn enwedig mesurau i gefnogi safonau uchel o ran effeithlonrwydd ynni. Maent yn cael cryn effaith ar iechyd a lles y tenantiaid a’r bobl sy’n byw yn y tai hynny wedyn.

I thank David Melding for that point. He draws attention to one of the characteristics of the fund, which is that it has been used by some parts of the public sector far more regularly than others. So, the health service in Wales has an excellent record of using the fund for energy efficiency measures, and has saved a great deal of money in the health service as a result. Local authorities have been slightly later to the party in relation to the invest-to-save fund, but we are encouraging those who have made less use of it to date to make more use of it in the future. We are taking applications at any point in the year now, rather than at fixed points in the year, and working with people who’ve had less experience of making applications to the fund, so that they have some mentoring along the way in order to encourage exactly the sort of application that the Member has mentioned.

Diolch i David Melding am ei bwynt. Mae’n tynnu sylw at un o nodweddion y gronfa, sef ei bod wedi cael ei defnyddio gan rai rhannau o’r sector cyhoeddus yn llawer mwy rheolaidd nag eraill. Felly, mae gan y gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru hanes gwych o ddefnyddio’r gronfa ar gyfer mesurau effeithlonrwydd ynni, ac mae wedi arbed llawer iawn o arian yn y gwasanaeth iechyd o ganlyniad. Mae awdurdodau lleol wedi bod ychydig ar ei hôl hi mewn perthynas â’r gronfa buddsoddi i arbed, ond rydym yn annog y rhai a wnaeth lai o ddefnydd ohoni hyd yn hyn i ddefnyddio mwy arni yn y dyfodol. Rydym yn cymryd ceisiadau ar unrhyw adeg o’r flwyddyn bellach, yn hytrach nag ar adegau penodol o’r flwyddyn, ac yn gweithio gyda phobl â llai o brofiad o wneud ceisiadau i’r gronfa, fel eu bod yn cael rhywfaint o fentora yn ystod y broses er mwyn annog y math o gais a grybwyllwyd gan yr Aelod.

Cynigion Cyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru

Welsh Government Budget Proposals

7. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddatganiad am gyhoeddi cynigion cyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru? (OAQ51073)

7. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the publication of the Welsh Government’s budget proposals? (OAQ51073)

Dirprwy Lywydd, I will publish the Welsh Government’s outline draft budget on Tuesday of next week.

Dirprwy Lywydd, byddaf yn cyhoeddi cyllideb ddrafft amlinellol Llywodraeth Cymru ddydd Mawrth nesaf.

Thanks. The bedroom tax is, by far, one of the most unnecessary burdens faced by some of the most disadvantaged people in Wales. This is a tax that has only added more pressure to those who already struggle to make ends meet. The bedroom tax has, in many cases, been applied to those who simply don’t have the option to move into a smaller house. So, isn’t it about time that the Labour Government in Wales abolished a tax that punishes the most vulnerable in our society? If the Scottish Government is able to abolish the bedroom tax, why isn’t the Welsh Government doing the same? So, I want a commitment from the Cabinet Secretary whether or not he will commit to abolishing the bedroom tax through the next budget round.

Diolch. Y dreth ystafell wely yn un o’r beichiau mwyaf diangen o bell ffordd sy’n wynebu rhai o’r bobl fwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghymru. Nid yw’r dreth hon wedi gwneud dim ond ychwanegu at y pwysau ar y rheini sydd eisoes yn ei chael yn anodd cadw deupen llinyn ynghyd. Mae’r dreth ystafell wely, mewn sawl achos, wedi effeithio ar bobl nad oes dewis ganddynt i symud i mewn i dŷ llai. Felly, onid yw’n hen bryd i Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru gael gwared ar dreth sy’n cosbi’r mwyaf bregus yn ein cymdeithas? Os gall Llywodraeth yr Alban gael gwared ar y dreth ystafell wely, pam nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud yr un peth? Felly, hoffwn ymrwymiad gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet a yw’n mynd i ymrwymo i gael gwared ar y dreth ystafell wely drwy’r cylch cyllidebol nesaf ai peidio.

Dirprwy Lywydd, the bedroom tax is not a matter devolved to Wales.

Dirprwy Lywydd, nid yw’r dreth ystafell wely yn fater sydd wedi’i ddatganoli i Gymru.

Diogelu Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus

Protecting Public Services

8. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i ddiogelu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus o fewn llywodraeth leol? (OAQ51075)

8. What actions are being taken by the Welsh Government to protect public services within local government? (OAQ51075)

We will continue our efforts to protect local government in Wales from the worst of the cuts to the Welsh Government’s budget. I repeat, however, the advice I provided earlier this afternoon that this year should be used by local government to plan for harder times and tougher choices that lie ahead.

Byddwn yn parhau â’n hymdrechion i ddiogelu llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru rhag y toriadau gwaethaf i gyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru. Dylwn ailadrodd, fodd bynnag, y cyngor a roddais yn gynharach y prynhawn yma y dylai eleni gael ei defnyddio gan lywodraeth leol i gynllunio ar gyfer adegau anoddach a dewisiadau anoddach yn y dyfodol.

Thank you for that answer, Cabinet Secretary. As you say, the number of questions you’ve already fielded this afternoon on this issue shows the importance of ensuring fair funding for local government, particularly in the times of austerity being imposed upon us by the Tory Government in Westminster. At the beginning of this month, Jeremy Miles and I attended a question-and-answer session of staff at Neath Port Talbot council in which they raised these concerns with us. They also raised other concerns such as the issues of grant funding and the hypothecation applied to that and the challenges they faced that could be avoided. When you announce your settlement on 10 October, will you look at the issue of hypothecated grant funding to see if you can actually put that into the RSG to ensure that councils can use the money as they best see fit to deliver services?

Diolch am eich ateb, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Fel y dywedwch, mae nifer y cwestiynau rydych eisoes wedi eu hateb y prynhawn yma ar y mater hwn yn dangos pwysigrwydd sicrhau cyllid teg i lywodraeth leol, yn enwedig mewn cyfnod o gyni a orfodir arnom gan y Llywodraeth Dorïaidd yn San Steffan. Ddechrau’r mis, mynychodd Jeremy Miles a minnau sesiwn holi ac ateb ar gyfer staff cyngor Castell-nedd Port Talbot, a daethant â’r pryderon hyn i’n sylw. Mynegwyd pryderon eraill ganddynt hefyd, megis materion yn ymwneud â chyllid grant a’r neilltuo a gymhwysir iddo, a’r heriau a wynebant y gellid eu hosgoi. Pan fyddwch yn cyhoeddi eich setliad ar 10 Hydref, a wnewch chi edrych ar gyllid grant a neilltuir i weld os gallwch roi hynny yn y grant cynnal refeniw er mwyn sicrhau y gall cynghorau ddefnyddio’r arian fel y gwelant orau ar gyfer darparu gwasanaethau?

Dirprwy Lywydd, I read reports of the meeting that David Rees and Jeremy Miles had attended, and I absolutely understand the points that local workers in services were making about the pressures that they face and the impact of austerity in the lives of those that they try to assist. I have listened hard to what local authorities in Wales have said to me about moving more specific grants into the RSG to give them some more flexibility and to lift the bureaucratic burden, and I will be taking that advice very seriously as I move to outline the draft local government settlement on 10 October.

Dirprwy Lywydd, rwyf wedi darllen adroddiadau ynglŷn â’r cyfarfod a fynychodd David Rees a Jeremy Miles, ac rwy’n deall yn iawn y pwyntiau a wnaed gan weithwyr lleol yn y gwasanaethau ynglŷn â’r pwysau y maent yn ei wynebu ac effaith cyni ar fywydau’r rhai y maent yn ceisio eu cynorthwyo. Rwyf wedi gwrando’n astud ar yr hyn y mae awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru wedi’i ddweud wrthyf ynglŷn â symud grantiau mwy penodol i’r grant cynnal refeniw er mwyn rhoi ychydig mwy o hyblygrwydd iddynt ac i leddfu’r baich biwrocrataidd, a byddaf yn rhoi ystyriaeth drwyadl i’r cyngor hwnnw wrth i mi baratoi i amlinellu’r setliad llywodraeth leol drafft ar 10 Hydref.

And finally question 9, Jeremy Miles.

Ac yn olaf, cwestiwn 9, Jeremy Miles.

Bargen Ddinesig Bae Abertawe

Swansea Bay City Deal

9. A wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet amlinellu sut y bydd Castell-nedd yn elwa oherwydd bargen ddinesig Bae Abertawe? (OAQ51068)

9. Will the Cabinet Secretary outline how the Swansea Bay city deal will benefit Neath? (OAQ51068)

The £1.3 billion Swansea city region city deal aims to boost the region’s economy by £1.8 billion and generate almost 10,000 new jobs. Two of the deal’s projects are based in Neath Port Talbot.

Nod bargen ­ddinesig £1.3 biliwn dinas-ranbarth Abertawe yw rhoi hwb o £1.8 biliwn i economi’r rhanbarth a chreu bron 10,000 o swyddi newydd. Mae dau o brosiectau’r fargen wedi eu lleoli yng Nghastell-nedd Port Talbot.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for that reply. At the start of the city deal process, it was understood that the projects comprised within it, which draw both on public funding and private sector funding, would be evaluated and approved separately. It’s emerged, during discussions that we’ve had—with David Rees, and others in the region—that there may have been a change of approach at some point, requiring each of them to be signed off together, so to speak, which, given that there’s a mix of funding that contributes to each of those projects, obviously poses an obstacle to the execution of those projects. Could the Cabinet Secretary clarify what the Welsh Government’s position is in relation to this?

Diolch i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet am ei ateb. Ar ddechrau proses y fargen ddinesig, cafwyd ar ddeall y byddai’r prosiectau sy’n rhan ohoni, sy’n defnyddio arian cyhoeddus ac arian y sector preifat, yn cael eu gwerthuso a’u cymeradwyo ar wahân. Daeth yn amlwg, mewn trafodaethau a gawsom—gyda David Rees, ac eraill yn y rhanbarth—fod y dull hwnnw o weithredu wedi newid ar ryw adeg o bosibl, gan ei gwneud yn ofynnol iddynt gael eu cymeradwyo gyda’i gilydd, fel petai, sy’n amlwg yn peri rhwystr i’r broses o gyflawni’r prosiectau hynny o ystyried y cymysgedd o gyllid sy’n cyfrannu at bob un o’r prosiectau hynny. A all Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet egluro safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru mewn perthynas â hyn?

Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, I understand the point that Jeremy Miles is making. I think it’s important for me to say that when the deal was signed by the UK Government and the Welsh Government, together with local colleagues in the Swansea bay city region area, it was on the basis of 11 projects coming forward together to form a deal. Now, I’ve had further discussions with people locally as well. It remains important that those 11 projects develop as a coherent package. They are not 11 stand-alone separate things. They must mesh in with one another to create maximum impact. But I’m happy to confirm that we will not require all business cases to be signed off before funding for any one of them is released.

Wel, Dirprwy Lywydd, rwy’n deall pwynt Jeremy Miles. Pan gafodd y cytundeb ei lofnodi gan Lywodraeth y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru, ynghyd â chydweithwyr lleol yn ardal dinas-ranbarth Bae Abertawe, credaf ei bod yn bwysig i mi ddweud mai ar sail 11 o brosiectau yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd i ffurfio cytundeb y gwnaed hynny. Nawr, rwyf wedi cael trafodaethau pellach gyda phobl yn lleol hefyd. Mae’n bwysig o hyd fod yr 11 prosiect yn datblygu fel pecyn cydlynol. Nid 11 o bethau ar wahân sy’n sefyll ar eu pennau eu hunain mohonynt. Mae’n rhaid iddynt uno gyda’i gilydd er mwyn sicrhau’r effaith fwyaf posibl. Ond rwy’n fwy na pharod i gadarnhau na fyddwn yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i bob achos busnes gael ei gymeradwyo cyn y caiff y cyllid ei ryddhau ar gyfer unrhyw un ohonynt.

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet.

3. 2. Cwestiynau i Gomisiwn y Cynulliad
3. 2. Questions to the Assembly Commission

Item 2 is questions to the Assembly Commission. There are no questions tabled.

Eitem 2 yw cwestiynau i Gomisiwn y Cynulliad. Ni chyflwynwyd unrhyw gwestiynau.

4. 3. Cwestiynau Amserol
4. 3. Topical Questions

Mae [R] yn dynodi bod yr Aelod wedi datgan buddiant. Mae [W] yn dynodi bod y cwestiwn wedi'i gyflwyno yn Gymraeg.

[R] signifies the Member has declared an interest. [W] signifies that the question was tabled in Welsh.

So, we move to item 3, which is a topical question. Andrew R.T. Davies.

Felly, symudwn ymlaen at eitem 3, sef cwestiwn amserol. Andrew R.T. Davies.

Uber yng Nghymru

Uber in Wales

Yn sgil penderfyniad Transport for London i ddirymu trwydded gweithredwr hurio preifat Uber, a wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet amlinellu safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru ar bresenoldeb y cwmni yng Nghymru? (TAQ0046)

In light of Transport for London’s decision to revoke Uber’s private hire operator licence, will the Cabinet Secretary outline the Welsh Government’s position on the firm’s presence in Wales? (TAQ0046)

Local authorities are responsible for licensing taxis and private hire vehicles in their local areas, and as part of the public transport system, the safety of passengers must be paramount. It would not be appropriate to comment on this case, but we will be tracking developments in readiness for the transfer of responsibility for licensing, which is expected in early 2018.

Awdurdodau lleol sy’n gyfrifol am drwyddedu tacsis a cherbydau hurio preifat yn eu hardaloedd lleol, ac fel rhan o’r system drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, mae’n rhaid i ddiogelwch teithwyr fod o’r pwys mwyaf. Ni fyddai’n briodol gwneud sylwadau ar yr achos hwn, ond byddwn yn cadw llygad ar unrhyw ddatblygiadau er mwyn bod yn barod ar gyfer y broses o drosglwyddo’r cyfrifoldeb am drwyddedu, a ragwelir yn gynnar yn 2018.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for that answer. I appreciate licensing is a local authority issue, but obviously you have Cabinet responsibility for transport and it is important that there is a choice—a choice for consumers to actually engage with—whether it’s the more traditional taxi model or the Uber model that is available in some parts of Wales. So, is it your belief that that choice should continue to prevail here in Wales, or do you believe the actions taken by Transport for London and supported by the mayor, Sadiq Khan, should be replicated here in Wales, to withdraw that option of that choice for the consumer to engage with?

Diolch am eich ateb, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Rwy’n cydnabod bod trwyddedu’n fater ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol, ond yn amlwg, mae gennych gyfrifoldeb Cabinet dros drafnidiaeth ac mae’n bwysig bod yno ddewis—dewis y gall y defnyddwyr ei wneud—o ran y model tacsi mwy traddodiadol neu’r model Uber sydd ar gael mewn rhai rhannau o Gymru. Felly, a ydych o’r farn y dylai’r dewis hwnnw barhau i fod ar gael yma yng Nghymru, neu a ydych yn credu y dylid efelychu’r camau a gymerwyd gan Transport for London gyda chefnogaeth y maer, Sadiq Khan, i amddifadu’r defnyddwyr o’r dewis hwnnw?

Well, we still do not know precisely what led Transport for London to reach the decision that it reached, so it wouldn’t be necessarily the proper thing to do to actually reach a decision in the way that the Member has asked. However, I have recently consulted on reforming the law in relation to the licensing of taxis and private hire vehicles, which will include the introduction of national standards. I am more than happy to recirculate the consultation that took place, together with the Government proposals that will tighten passenger security and passenger safety.

Wel, ni wyddom o hyd beth yn union a barodd i Transport for London wneud y penderfyniad a wnaethant, felly nid dod i benderfyniad yn y ffordd y gofynnodd yr Aelod fyddai’r peth iawn i wneud o reidrwydd. Fodd bynnag, rwyf wedi ymgynghori’n ddiweddar ar ddiwygio’r gyfraith mewn perthynas â thrwyddedu tacsis a cherbydau hurio preifat, a fydd yn cynnwys cyflwyno safonau cenedlaethol. Rwy’n fwy na pharod i ailddosbarthu’r ymgynghoriad a gynhaliwyd, ynghyd â chynigion y Llywodraeth a fydd yn tynhau mesurau diogelwch teithwyr ac yn gwella diogelwch teithwyr.

Uber’s business model is attracting quite a lot of attention: a 25 per cent return on somebody else’s capital—i.e. the drivers. I just wondered if you’d had any discussions with local authorities on how they can ensure that a company like this, which is not based in this country, can nevertheless make the appropriate contribution to the upkeep of the roads and the regulation of cars for hire, because other taxi companies are having to pay an appropriate sum, and it’s unfair competition if they are coming in and not facing this level of regulation.

Mae model busnes Uber yn denu cryn dipyn o sylw: elw o 25 y cant ar gyfalaf rhywun arall—y gyrwyr, hynny yw. Tybed a ydych wedi cael unrhyw drafodaethau gydag awdurdodau lleol ynglŷn â sut y gallant sicrhau bod cwmni fel hwn, nad yw wedi’i leoli yn y wlad hon, yn gallu cyfrannu’n briodol serch hynny at gostau cynnal a chadw ffyrdd a rheoleiddio ceir hurio, gan fod yn rhaid i gwmnïau tacsi eraill dalu swm priodol, ac mae’n gystadleuaeth annheg os ydynt yn dod yma heb wynebu’r lefel hon o reoleiddio.

The Member is absolutely right, and this point has been raised on numerous occasions during the course of putting together the consultation document that resulted in a good number of taxi firms agreeing that there should be a fair contribution. As tempting as it is to wade into the current disagreements, especially given the tribunal result last year, I haven’t seen the judgment—and this matter is between the licensing authority and the private hire company—but I can say again that our proposals for taxi reform will address some of the loopholes that Members in this Chamber have raised today.

Mae’r Aelod yn llygad ei lle, a chodwyd y pwynt hwn ar sawl achlysur yn ystod y broses o lunio’r ddogfen ymgynghori a arweiniodd at nifer o gwmnïau tacsi yn cytuno y dylid cael cyfraniad teg. Er bod temtasiwn i gyfrannu at yr anghydweld presennol, yn enwedig o ystyried canlyniad y tribiwnlys y llynedd, nid wyf wedi gweld y dyfarniad—a mater yw hwn rhwng yr awdurdod trwyddedu a’r cwmni hurio preifat—ond gallaf ddweud eto y bydd ein cynigion ar gyfer diwygio tacsis yn mynd i’r afael â rhai o’r bylchau a nodwyd gan yr Aelodau yn y Siambr hon heddiw.

5. 4. Datganiadau 90 Eiliad
5. 4. 90-second Statements

Item 4 is the 90-second statements, and the first of the 90-second statements today is Mike Hedges.

Eitem 4 yw’r datganiadau 90 eiliad, a daw’r datganiad 90 eiliad cyntaf heddiw gan Mike Hedges.

Diolch. Pleidleisiwyd Capel y Tabernacl, Treforys, Abertawe yn hoff eglwys neu gapel Cymru. Lansiwyd cystadleuaeth Cymru Sanctaidd gan Huw Edwards, darlledwr a newyddiadurwr ac is-lywydd Ymddiriedolaeth Genedlaethol yr Eglwysi ym mis Gorffennaf eleni, gan alw ar y cyhoedd i bleidleisio am eu hoff eglwys neu gapel yng Nghymru. Heddiw datgelwyd mai Capel y Tabernacl yw’r enillydd gyda 7,081 o bobl yn pleidleisio ar wefan Cymru Sanctaidd. Curodd Capel y Tabernacl 49 o eglwysi a chapeli eraill. Dyluniwyd Capel y Tabernacl, adeilad rhestredig gradd I, gan y pensaer o Gymro, John Humphreys, ac agorodd ym 1870. Dywedwyd mai hwn oedd y capel mwyaf uchelgeisiol yng Nghymru, gan gostio £18,000—swm enfawr bryd hynny. Fe’i hadwaenir fel cadeirlan anghydffurfiaeth Gymreig. Bydd Capel y Tabernacl, Treforys yn derbyn tlws gwydr Cymru Sanctaidd, wedi’i ddylunio gan Sandra Snaddon, a gwobr o £500.

Thank you. Tabernacle Chapel has been voted Wales’s favourite church or chapel. The Cymru Sanctaidd—Sacred Wales competition was launched by broadcaster and journalist and vice-president of the National Churches Trust, Huw Edwards, in July of this year. He called on the public to vote for their favourite church or chapel in Wales. Tabernacle Chapel has today been revealed as the winner, with 7,081 people voting for it on the Cymru Sanctaidd—Sacred Wales website. Tabernacle Chapel beat off competition from 49 other churches and chapels. A grade I listed building, Tabernacle Chapel was designed by Welsh architect John Humphreys, and it opened its doors in 1870. It was said to be the most ambitious chapel in Wales, and cost what was then a huge sum of £18,000. It is known as the cathedral of Welsh nonconformity. Tabernacle Chapel will receive a special Cymru Sanctaidd—Sacred Wales glass trophy, designed by Sandra Snaddon, and a prize of £500.

Later this week, the ancient town of Montgomery is preparing to turn back the clock 750 years to celebrate the signing of the Treaty of Montgomery. On 29 September 1267, King Henry III of England and Llywelyn ap Gruffudd, Prince of Gwynedd, signed the treaty, which recognised Llywelyn as the Prince of Wales. The 1267 treaty gave Llywelyn Builth, Brecon and Whittington Castle in mid Wales. He also received an assurance that no castle would be built at Hawarden for 60 years by Robert of Mold, securing the north-eastern border of Wales. However, following the succession of Edward I as King of England in 1272, relations between Wales and England deteriorated and Edward declared war on Llywelyn in 1276. To celebrate the seven hundred and fiftieth anniversary, Montgomery Town Council and partners have agreed a short re-enactment of the treaty signing, and local schoolchildren will be taking part. Later in the evening, there’ll be a mediaeval banquet and entertainment in the town hall, which I’ll be attending. I’m sure everyone will wish to join me in wishing the people of Montgomery well as they mark this special occasion.

Yn ddiweddarach yr wythnos hon, bydd tref hynafol Trefaldwyn yn paratoi i droi’r cloc yn ôl 750 o flynyddoedd i ddathlu arwyddo Cytundeb Trefaldwyn. Ar 29 Medi 1267 arwyddodd Brenin Lloegr, Harri III, a Llywelyn ap Gruffudd, Tywysog Gwynedd, gytundeb i gydnabod mai Llywelyn oedd Tywysog Cymru. Rhoddai cytundeb 1267 Lanfair-ym-Muallt, Aberhonddu a Chastell Whittington yng nghanolbarth Cymru i Lywelyn. Cafodd sicrwydd hefyd na fyddai unrhyw gastell yn cael ei adeiladu ym Mhenarlâg am 60 mlynedd gan Robert o’r Wyddgrug, gan ddiogelu ffin ogledd-ddwyreiniol Cymru. Fodd bynnag, yn dilyn olyniaeth Edward I yn Frenin Lloegr ym 1272, dirywiodd y berthynas rhwng Cymru a Lloegr a chyhoeddodd Edward ryfel yn erbyn Llywelyn yn 1276. I ddathlu saith can mlynedd a hanner ers y cytundeb, mae Cyngor Tref Trefaldwyn a phartneriaid wedi cytuno i ailgreu golygfa arwyddo’r cytundeb, a bydd plant ysgol lleol yn cymryd rhan. Yn nes ymlaen, bydd gwledd ganoloesol ac adloniant yn neuadd y dref, a byddaf yn ei mynychu. Rwy’n siŵr y bydd pawb yn awyddus i ymuno â mi i ddymuno’n dda i bobl Trefaldwyn wrth iddynt nodi’r achlysur arbennig hwn.

On Thursday 7 September, I joined members of the local community to celebrate the opening of a new Co-op store on Canal Road in Cwmbach, in my constituency. In fact, I was delighted to be asked to formally open the store. The £0.5 million development brought a disused building back to life, providing an invaluable community resource and the creation of 16 brand-new jobs. It will also directly benefit community groups in Cynon Valley, such as the local football club, AFC Llwydcoed, Hirwaun OAP Association and Women’s Aid RCT. More importantly, this investment brought the co-op back to Cwmbach. As historian of the co-op movement, Alun Burge, has noted, the original Cwmbach Co-operative Society, founded in 1860, may be considered as the beginning of co-operation in Wales. In south Wales communities like my own, the strength of the co-op was in small Valleys towns. As was said of the Blaina co-op in the 1920s, it was the biggest thing in the valley outside of the coal industry itself. The co-op movement, with its commitment to education and cradle-to-the-grave services offered a way of life for many, through its extensive social provision. It was a pleasure, both as the granddaughter of a co-op worker, and as someone who grew up in Cwmbach, to welcome the co-op back to the village.

Ar ddydd Iau 7 Medi ymunais ag aelodau o’r gymuned leol i ddathlu agor siop gydweithredol newydd ar Canal Road yng Nghwm-bach, yn fy etholaeth. A dweud y gwir, roeddwn wrth fy modd fy mod wedi cael gwahoddiad i agor y siop yn ffurfiol. Mae’r datblygiad £0.5 miliwn wedi dod ag adeilad gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd, gan ddarparu adnodd cymunedol amhrisiadwy a chreu 16 o swyddi newydd sbon. Bydd hefyd o fudd uniongyrchol i grwpiau cymunedol yng Nghwm Cynon, megis y clwb pêl-droed lleol, Clwb Pêl-droed Llwydcoed, Cymdeithas Pensiynwyr Hirwaun a Chymorth i Fenywod Rhondda Cynon Taf. Yn fwy pwysig, daeth y buddsoddiad hwn â’r cwmni cydweithredol yn ôl i Gwm-bach. Fel y nododd hanesydd y mudiad cydweithredol, Alun Burge, gellid dadlau mai Cymdeithas Gydweithredol wreiddiol Cwm-bach, a sefydlwyd ym 1860, oedd dechrau’r mudiad cydweithredol yng Nghymru. Yng nghymunedau de Cymru, fel fy un i, roedd cryfder y cwmni cydweithredol i’w weld yn nhrefi bach y Cymoedd. Fel y dywedwyd am gwmni cydweithredol Blaina yn y 1920au, hwnnw oedd y peth mwyaf yn y cwm heblaw am y diwydiant glo ei hun. Roedd y mudiad cydweithredol, gyda’i ymrwymiad i addysg a gwasanaethau o’r crud i’r bedd, yn cynnig ffordd o fyw i lawer, drwy ei ddarpariaeth gymdeithasol helaeth. Roedd yn bleser, fel wyres i weithiwr cydweithredol, ac fel rhywun a fagwyd yng Nghwm-bach, cael croesawu’r cwmni cydweithredol yn ôl i’r pentref.

6. 5. Cynnig i Ddiwygio Rheol Sefydlog 26 mewn perthynas â Biliau Pwyllgorau
6. 5. Motion to Amend Standing Order 26 in relation to Committee Bills

Item 5 is the motion to amend Standing Order 26 in relation to committee Bills, and I call on a member of the Business Committee to move the motion.

Eitem 5 yw’r cynnig i ddiwygio Rheol Sefydlog 26 mewn perthynas â Biliau pwyllgor, a galwaf ar aelod o’r Pwyllgor Busnes i gynnig y cynnig.

Cynnig NDM6512 Elin Jones

Cynnig bod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 33.2:

1. Yn ystyried adroddiad y Pwyllgor Busnes ‘Diwygio Rheolau Sefydlog: Rheol Sefydlog 26 —Biliau Pwyllgor’ a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 20 Medi 2017; ac

2. Yn cymeradwyo’r cynnig i adolygu Rheol Sefydlog 26, fel y nodir yn Atodiad B i adroddiad y Pwyllgor Busnes.

Motion NDM6512 Elin Jones

To propose that the National Assembly, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee ‘Amending Standing Orders: Standing Order 26—Committee Bills’ laid in the Table Office on 20 September 2017.

2. Approves the proposal to revise Standing Order 26, as set out in Annex B of the report of the Business Committee.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Formally. Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Yn ffurfiol. Diolch. Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

7. 6. Cynnig i Ddiwygio Rheolau Sefydlog 11, 12 a 13 mewn perthynas â Deddf Cymru 2017 ac Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru
7. 6. Motion to Amend Standing Orders 11, 12 and 13 in relation to the Wales Act 2017 and the Secretary of State for Wales

Item 6, again, is a motion to amend Standing Orders 11, 12 and 13 in relation to the Wales Act 2017 and the Secretary of State for Wales. And again, I call on a member of the Business Committee to move the motion.

Mae eitem 6, unwaith eto, yn gynnig i ddiwygio Rheolau Sefydlog 11, 12 a 13 mewn perthynas â Deddf Cymru 2017 ac Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru. Ac eto, galwaf ar aelod o’r Pwyllgor Busnes i gynnig y cynnig.

Cynnig NDM6511 Elin Jones

Cynnig bod y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 33.2:

1. Yn ystyried adroddiad y Pwyllgor Busnes ‘Diwygio Rheolau Sefydlog: Rheolau Sefydlog 11, 12 a 13 – Deddf Cymru 2017 ac Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru’ a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 20 Medi 2017.

2. Yn cymeradwyo’r cynnig i adolygu Rheolau Sefydlog 11, 12 a 13, fel y nodir yn Atodiad B i adroddiad y Pwyllgor Busnes.

Motion NDM6511 Elin Jones

To propose that the National Assembly, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee ‘Amending Standing Orders: Standing Orders 11, 12 and 13—The Wales Act 2017 and the Secretary of State for Wales’ laid in the Table Office on 20 September 2017.

2. Approves the proposal to revise Standing Orders 11, 12 and 13, as set out in Annex B of the report of the Business Committee.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Diolch. Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

8. 7. Dadl ar Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad 01-17 i'r Cynulliad o dan Reol Sefydlog 22.9
8. 7. Debate on the Standards of Conduct Committee's Report 01-17 to the Assembly under Standing Order 22.9

We now move to item 7, which is the debate on the Standards of Conduct Committee’s ‘Report 01-17 to the Assembly under Standing Order 22.9’. And I call on the Chair of the Standards of Conduct Committee to move the motion—Jayne Bryant.

Symudwn yn awr at eitem 7, sef y ddadl ar Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad 01-17 i’r Cynulliad o dan Reol Sefydlog 22.9. A galwaf ar Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad i gynnig y cynnig—Jayne Bryant.

Cynnig NDM6508 Jayne Bryant

Yn cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

a) yn ystyried adroddiad y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad—Adroddiad 01-17—a osodwyd gerbron y Cynulliad ar 3 Awst 2017 yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 22.9; a

b) yn cymeradwyo’r argymhelliad yn yr adroddiad.

Motion NDM6508 Jayne Bryant

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

a) considers the report of the Standards of Conduct Committee—Report 01-17—laid before the Assembly on 3 August 2017 in accordance with Standing Order 22.9; and

b) endorses the recommendations in the report.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Llywydd. As Chair of the Standards of Conduct Committee, I formally move the motion.

At the committee’s meeting on 11 July 2017, we considered the report from National Assembly for Wales Commissioner for Standards in relation to a complaint made against Neil McEvoy AM, regarding his failure to comply with the rules and guidance of the use of Assembly resources, which is a breach of the code of conduct. The Standards of Conduct Committee gave the commissioner’s report careful consideration, and our report sets out the committee’s judgment as to the sanction that is appropriate in this case. The motion tabled invites the Assembly to endorse the committee’s recommendation.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad, rwy’n cynnig y cynnig yn ffurfiol.

Yng nghyfarfod y pwyllgor ar 11 Gorffennaf 2017, fe wnaethom ystyried yr adroddiad gan Gomisiynydd Safonau Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru mewn perthynas â chwyn a wnaed yn erbyn Neil McEvoy AC, ynglŷn â’i fethiant i gydymffurfio â’r rheolau a’r canllawiau ar ddefnyddio adnoddau’r Cynulliad, sy’n torri’r cod ymddygiad. Bu’r Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad yn ystyried adroddiad y comisiynydd yn ofalus, ac mae ein hadroddiad yn nodi barn y pwyllgor ynglŷn â’r gosb sy’n briodol yn yr achos hwn. Mae’r cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn gwahodd y Cynulliad i gymeradwyo argymhelliad y pwyllgor.

Diolch. I’m here today to apologise for using the media briefing room in a way that was inconsistent with the Standing Orders of this Assembly and the code of conduct for Assembly Members. I fully accept the findings of the committee’s report, because, when I’ve done something wrong, I admit to it.

I didn’t set out to break the code of conduct. The truth is, I didn’t know the code of conduct well enough at the time, and that’s nobody else’s fault but my own, and I accept that. However, the reason why I can be found to have broken the code of conduct is because there is a code of conduct that does apply to me. But there’s one person in the Chamber who the code of conduct does not apply to, and that person is the First Minister.

The First Minister’s answers to questions have been inconsistent on matters of fact, but the Presiding Officer has no power to investigate his behaviour. Even the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister has no power to investigate on this, and I think it’s undemocratic and wrong. That’s why, yesterday, I wrote—

Diolch. Rwyf yma heddiw i ymddiheuro am ddefnyddio ystafell briffio’r cyfryngau mewn ffordd a oedd yn anghyson â Rheolau Sefydlog y Cynulliad hwn a’r cod ymddygiad ar gyfer Aelodau’r Cynulliad. Rwy’n derbyn canfyddiadau adroddiad y pwyllgor yn llawn, oherwydd pan wyf wedi gwneud rhywbeth o’i le, rwy’n cyfaddef hynny.

Nid oeddwn yn bwriadu torri’r cod ymddygiad. Y gwir amdani yw nad oeddwn yn ddigon cyfarwydd â’r cod ymddygiad ar y pryd, ac nid yw hynny’n fai ar neb ond fi, ac rwy’n derbyn hynny. Fodd bynnag, y rheswm pam yr ystyrir fy mod wedi torri’r cod ymddygiad yw oherwydd bod yna god ymddygiad sy’n berthnasol i mi. Ond mae yna un person yn y Siambr nad yw’r cod ymddygiad yn berthnasol iddo, a’r person hwnnw yw’r Prif Weinidog.

Mae atebion y Prif Weinidog i gwestiynau wedi bod yn anghyson ynglŷn â ffeithiau, ond nid oes gan y Llywydd unrhyw bŵer i archwilio ei ymddygiad. Nid oes gan y Pwyllgor Craffu ar Waith y Prif Weinidog hyd yn oed unrhyw bŵer i archwilio hyn, ac rwy’n credu ei fod yn annemocrataidd ac yn anghywir. Dyna pam yr ysgrifennais ddoe—

Sorry, Neil. Could I just ask you to think about what you’re saying in relation to the standards report, please?

Mae’n ddrwg gennyf, Neil. A gaf fi ofyn i chi feddwl am yr hyn rydych yn ei ddweud mewn perthynas â’r adroddiad safonau, os gwelwch yn dda?

And don’t stray away from its content.

A pheidiwch â chrwydro oddi ar ei gynnwys.

The points that I’m making—and I’ll probably draw things to a close a little bit quicker than I want to. Because I fully accept the censure, if that’s the wish of the Chamber, and I fully apologise once again. But I believe the First Minister of Wales should refer himself, through the ministerial code of conduct—

Mae’r pwyntiau rwy’n eu gwneud—ac mae’n debyg y byddaf yn dod â phethau i ben ychydig bach yn gynt nag y dymunaf. Oherwydd rwy’n derbyn y cerydd yn llwyr, os mai dyna yw dymuniad y Siambr, ac rwy’n ymddiheuro’n llawn unwaith eto. Ond rwy’n credu y dylai Prif Weinidog Cymru gyfeirio ei hun, drwy’r cod ymddygiad i weinidogion—

No, you’re straying outside of the report. So, just think, and if you want to, that’s fine.

Na, rydych yn crwydro oddi ar yr adroddiad. Felly, meddyliwch, ac os ydych eisiau gwneud, mae hynny’n iawn.

Okay. I’ll close by saying—and I wrote to the First Minister on this yesterday—no Member of this Chamber should be more equal than another. A code of conduct should apply to every single one of us. I did wrong, I made a mistake, I hold my hand up. Every AM should do the same. Thank you.

Iawn. Fe orffennaf drwy ddweud—ac ysgrifennais at y Prif Weinidog parthed y mater hwn ddoe—ni ddylai un Aelod o’r Siambr hon fod yn fwy cyfartal nag un arall. Dylai cod ymddygiad fod yn berthnasol i bob un ohonom. Roeddwn yn anghywir, fe wnes gamgymeriad, rwy’n cyfaddef hynny. Dylai pob AC wneud yr un peth. Diolch.

I’d just like to say, we’ve heard the Member’s apology, and to thank him for that—that he said that today. And I’d ask the Assembly to endorse the recommendation of the committee.

Hoffwn ddweud, rydym wedi clywed ymddiheuriad yr Aelod, a diolch iddo am hynny—ei fod wedi dweud hynny heddiw. A buaswn yn gofyn i’r Cynulliad gymeradwyo argymhelliad y pwyllgor.

Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Diolch. Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

9. 8. Dadl ar Adroddiad Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau: ‘Ar y trywydd iawn? Masnachfraint y Rheilffyrdd a Metro De Cymru’
9. 8. Debate on the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee Report: ‘On the right track? The Rail Franchise and South Wales Metro’

We now move on to item 8, which is a debate on the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee’s report, ‘On the right track? The Rail Franchise and South Wales Metro’. And I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—Russell George.

Symudwn yn awr at eitem 8, sef dadl ar adroddiad Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau, ‘Ar y trywydd iawn? Masnachfraint y Rheilffyrdd a Metro De Cymru’. A galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i gynnig y cynnig—Russell George.

Cynnig NDM6510 Russell George

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

Yn nodi adroddiad Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau ar ei Ymchwiliad i'r Fasnachfraint Rheilffyrdd a Metro De Cymru a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 29 Mehefin 2017.

Motion NDM6510 Russell George

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee on its Inquiry into the Rail Franchise and South Wales Metro which was laid in the Table Office on 29 June 2017.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I move the motion.

In 13 short months, the running of most of Wales’s rail services will transfer to a new franchise. This is an exciting moment, and one that offers a once-in-a-generation opportunity for a new chapter in public transport in Wales and the borders. And it’s, of course, absolutely crucial that the Welsh Government gets it right.

The Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee’s report we are considering today sets out our views on the Welsh Government’s procurement of the next Wales and borders rail franchise, and phase 2 of the south Wales metro. The report sets out 10 key priorities for the new contract, based on a survey of almost 3,000 people in Wales and the Marches. This was a substantial and complex inquiry, which I think is appropriate, because this is the most substantial and most complex procurement process taken by the Welsh Government in almost two decades of devolution. It is the largest single investment decision Wales has ever made. And on top of being big, the process is innovative, which brings new opportunities and challenges.

The Welsh Government and Transport for Wales are using a competitive dialogue procurement procedure. A system that has been tried and tested in other fields—for information technology contracts, for example—but never before for rail procurement. They are also seeking to award the first major vertically integrated contract for rail services in Britain, where the successful bidder will manage the tracks and train services on the core Valleys lines. Now, considering this is the first time the Welsh Government has procured a rail franchise, I think it’s fair to say that it has not taken the easy or the safe option. What they are attempting to do is incredibly ambitious. In fact, I think I said at the launch that it’s heroically ambitious, and I think I used that term when I launched the inquiry.

The committee made 19 recommendations in this report, in three main areas: the procurement process, priorities for the franchise specification, and some rail infrastructure issues that came out of our evidence. On the procurement process, we identified a number of risks and challenges, and these include the need for agreement with the UK Government on devolution of procurement powers—still not devolved despite agreement being reached to do so in 2014; funding; and also the transfer of ownership of the Valleys lines to the Welsh Government. Since the report was published, there has been much discussion between the UK Department for Transport and the Welsh Government. Public correspondence between the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure, Ken Skates, and the Secretary of State, Chris Grayling, has only served to put some of the tricky issues that remain to be resolved into the public domain. I know the Cabinet Secretary will tell us this afternoon–as he told us in committee this morning—that progress has been made.

The delays we have seen so far mean there is very little room for contingency. From now on, everything will need to run exactly to timetable, which isn’t always the case as regular rail users will know. For passengers, the priority is getting the new contract in place and getting services running, and I hope both Governments will do what they can to resolve these differences and allow passengers in Wales to enjoy the twenty-first century rail services that they are crying out for.

The second part of our report covered priorities for the franchise specification, and the committee set out its top 10 priorities to improve the quality and value for money of rail services, and they include: one, effective monitoring; two, a greener railway; three, an integrated network; four, adaptable services; five, affordable fares; six, new trains; seven, better communication; eight, modern stations; nine, fair fares; and 10, reduced disruption. The committee’s survey received almost 3,000 responses from all parts of the network. That’s an overwhelming response, I think, to a committee survey from the Assembly. And key priority areas for passengers were, in this order: punctuality and reliability; capacity of seats when you travel; journey times and frequency of service; price of fares; and handling delays and disruption. Just below that level, passengers wanted to see: connections with other train services; quality; clean trains; access and facilities for older people and for people with disabilities. Our results mirror findings by consumer watchdog Transport Focus in their annual surveys. Passengers want and expect the basics done right in the next franchise.

The third and final area we covered was rail infrastructure issues. We hadn’t intended to cover these, but the evidence we received was of sufficient concern that we could not ignore it. The committee urged the Welsh Government to continue to lobby the UK Government for rail electrification in north Wales, and the redevelopment of Cardiff station. Our concerns about the Swansea line proved to be well founded as, following publication of the report, the UK Government Secretary of State for Transport announced that plans for rail electrification to Swansea would not take place. The arguments being used by the UK Government to justify this decision—faster journey times while avoiding disruption—cast a shadow of doubt, of course, over the north Wales electrification as well.

In its response to our report, the Welsh Government has accepted 10 recommendations, with the remaining nine accepted in principle. I’m pleased that the Cabinet Secretary shares the committee’s vision of a high-quality integrated transport network. I look forward to the publication of a summary of key elements of the new franchise specification in due course. I also look forward to the urgent resolution of the outstanding issues to be agreed with the Department for Transport and Network Rail. There remain questions—

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Cynigiaf y cynnig.

Mewn cwta 13 mis, bydd y gwaith o weithredu’r rhan fwyaf o wasanaethau rheilffyrdd Cymru yn trosglwyddo i fasnachfraint newydd. Mae hon yn foment gyffrous ac yn un sy’n cynnig cyfle unwaith mewn cenhedlaeth ar gyfer pennod newydd ym maes trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Nghymru a’r gororau. Ac mae’n gwbl hanfodol fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cael pethau’n iawn.

Mae’r adroddiad gan Bwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau rydym yn ei ystyried heddiw yn nodi ein barn ar broses Llywodraeth Cymru o gaffael masnachfraint nesaf rheilffyrdd Cymru a’r gororau, a cham 2 metro de Cymru. Mae’r adroddiad yn nodi 10 blaenoriaeth allweddol ar gyfer y contract newydd, yn seiliedig ar arolwg o bron i 3,000 o bobl yng Nghymru a’r Gororau. Roedd hwn yn ymchwiliad sylweddol a chymhleth, a chredaf fod hynny’n briodol, gan mai dyma’r broses gaffael fwyaf sylweddol a mwyaf cymhleth a gyflawnwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru mewn ymron i ddau ddegawd o ddatganoli. Dyma’r penderfyniad buddsoddi unigol mwyaf y mae Cymru erioed wedi’i wneud. Ac yn ogystal â bod yn fawr, mae’r broses yn un arloesol, sy’n cynnig cyfleoedd a heriau newydd.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru a Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn defnyddio gweithdrefn deialog gystadleuol ar gyfer caffael. Mae’n system sydd wedi cael ei phrofi mewn meysydd eraill—ar gyfer contractau technoleg gwybodaeth, er enghraifft—ond erioed o’r blaen ar gyfer caffael rheilffyrdd. Maent hefyd yn bwriadu dyfarnu’r contract mawr cyntaf sydd wedi’i integreiddio’n fertigol ar gyfer gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd ym Mhrydain, lle y bydd y cynigydd llwyddiannus yn rheoli’r traciau a’r gwasanaethau trên ar gledrau craidd y Cymoedd. Nawr, o ystyried mai dyma’r tro cyntaf i Lywodraeth Cymru gaffael masnachfraint reilffyrdd, rwy’n credu ei bod yn deg dweud nad yw wedi dewis yr opsiwn hawdd neu’r opsiwn diogel. Mae’r hyn y maent yn ceisio ei wneud yn hynod o uchelgeisiol. A dweud y gwir, rwy’n credu fy mod wedi dweud yn y lansiad ei fod yn arwrol o uchelgeisiol, ac rwy’n credu fy mod wedi defnyddio’r ymadrodd hwnnw pan lansiais yr ymchwiliad.

Gwnaeth y pwyllgor 19 o argymhellion yn yr adroddiad hwn, mewn tri phrif faes: y broses gaffael, blaenoriaethau ar gyfer manyleb y fasnachfraint, a materion seilwaith rheilffyrdd a ddeilliodd o’n tystiolaeth. Ar y broses gaffael, nodwyd nifer o risgiau a heriau, ac mae’r rhain yn cynnwys yr angen am gytundeb â Llywodraeth y DU ar ddatganoli pwerau caffael—nad ydynt wedi’u datganoli o hyd er bod cytundeb i wneud hynny wedi’i gyrraedd yn 2014; cyllid; a hefyd trosglwyddo perchnogaeth rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd i Lywodraeth Cymru. Ers cyhoeddi’r adroddiad, mae llawer o drafod wedi bod rhwng Adran Drafnidiaeth y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru. Nid yw’r ohebiaeth gyhoeddus rhwng Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Economi a’r Seilwaith, Ken Skates, a’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, Chris Grayling, ond wedi llwyddo i wneud rhai o’r materion anodd sy’n dal i fod angen eu datrys yn gyhoeddus. Rwy’n gwybod y bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn dweud wrthym y prynhawn yma—fel y dywedodd wrthym yn y pwyllgor y bore yma—fod cynnydd wedi’i wneud.

Mae’r oedi a welsom hyd yn hyn yn golygu nad oes llawer iawn o le i gynllunio wrth gefn. O hyn ymlaen, bydd angen i bopeth ddigwydd yn union yn ôl yr amserlen, nad yw’n digwydd bob amser fel y bydd y rhai sy’n defnyddio’r rheilffyrdd yn rheolaidd yn gwybod. I deithwyr, y flaenoriaeth yw cael y contract newydd ar waith a sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau’n weithredol, ac rwy’n gobeithio y bydd y ddwy Lywodraeth yn gwneud yr hyn a allant i ddatrys y gwahaniaethau hyn a chaniatáu i deithwyr yng Nghymru fwynhau’r gwasanaethau trên unfed ganrif ar hugain y maent yn crefu amdanynt.

Roedd ail ran ein hadroddiad yn ymwneud â’r blaenoriaethau ar gyfer manyleb y fasnachfraint, a nododd y pwyllgor ei 10 prif flaenoriaeth i wella ansawdd a gwerth am arian gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd, ac maent yn cynnwys: un, monitro effeithiol; dau, rheilffordd wyrddach; tri, rhwydwaith integredig; pedwar, gwasanaethau hyblyg; pump, prisiau fforddiadwy; chwech, trenau newydd; saith, cyfathrebu gwell; wyth, gorsafoedd modern; naw, prisiau teg; a 10, llai o amhariadau. Cafodd arolwg y pwyllgor bron i 3,000 o ymatebion o bob rhan o’r rhwydwaith. Mae hwnnw’n ymateb aruthrol, rwy’n credu, i arolwg gan bwyllgor Cynulliad. A meysydd blaenoriaeth allweddol i deithwyr oedd, yn y drefn hon: prydlondeb a dibynadwyedd; capasiti seddi pan fyddwch yn teithio; hyd teithiau ac amlder gwasanaethau; pris y tocynnau; ac ymdrin ag oedi ac amhariadau. Ychydig islaw’r lefel honno, roedd teithwyr am weld: cysylltiadau â gwasanaethau trên eraill; ansawdd; trenau glân; hygyrchedd a chyfleusterau i bobl hŷn a phobl ag anableddau. Mae ein canlyniadau’n adlewyrchu canfyddiadau gan y corff gwarchod defnyddwyr Transport Focus yn eu harolygon blynyddol. Mae teithwyr eisiau ac yn disgwyl i’r pethau sylfaenol gael eu gwneud yn iawn yn y fasnachfraint nesaf.

Y trydydd maes a’r maes olaf a drafodwyd gennym oedd materion seilwaith rheilffyrdd. Nid oeddem wedi bwriadu cynnwys y rhain, ond roedd y dystiolaeth a gawsom yn peri digon o bryder fel na allem ei anwybyddu. Roedd y pwyllgor yn annog Llywodraeth Cymru i barhau i lobïo Llywodraeth y DU i drydaneiddio rheilffyrdd yng ngogledd Cymru, ac i ailddatblygu gorsaf Caerdydd. Roedd ein pryderon ynglŷn â rheilffordd Abertawe yn llygad eu lle oherwydd, yn dilyn cyhoeddi’r adroddiad, cyhoeddodd Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Llywodraeth y DU dros Drafnidiaeth na fyddai cynlluniau ar gyfer trydaneiddio’r rheilffordd i Abertawe yn digwydd. Mae’r dadleuon a ddefnyddir gan Lywodraeth y DU i gyfiawnhau’r penderfyniad hwn—amseroedd teithio cyflymach gan osgoi amhariadau—yn taflu cysgod o amheuaeth, wrth gwrs, dros drydaneiddio rheilffyrdd gogledd Cymru yn ogystal.

Yn ei hymateb i’n hadroddiad, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn 10 argymhelliad, gyda’r naw sy’n weddill yn cael eu derbyn mewn egwyddor. Rwy’n falch fod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn rhannu gweledigaeth y pwyllgor o rwydwaith trafnidiaeth integredig o ansawdd uchel. Edrychaf ymlaen at gyhoeddi crynodeb o elfennau allweddol manyleb y fasnachfraint newydd maes o law. Rwyf hefyd yn edrych ymlaen at weld y problemau sy’n parhau yn cael eu datrys ar fyrder a’u cytuno gyda’r Adran Drafnidiaeth a Network Rail. Mae yna gwestiynau o hyd—

I’m grateful to him for giving way. I know we are discussing a report that he’s already produced, but I was also aware of the evidence taken in the committee this morning. It seems that it is not resolved yet as to whether the franchise powers will be devolved in time for the agreement to be made. Is he content that an agency agreement is sufficient cover for both the Welsh Government and the Welsh taxpayer, to ensure that this franchise arrangement is strong enough?

Rwy’n ddiolchgar iddo am ildio. Gwn ein bod yn trafod adroddiad y mae eisoes wedi’i gynhyrchu, ond roeddwn hefyd yn ymwybodol o’r dystiolaeth a gymerwyd yn y pwyllgor y bore yma. Mae’n ymddangos na phenderfynwyd eto a fydd pwerau’r fasnachfraint wedi eu datganoli mewn pryd i’r cytundeb gael ei wneud. A yw’n fodlon fod cytundeb asiantaeth yn ddigonol ar gyfer Llywodraeth Cymru a threthdalwyr Cymru, i sicrhau bod trefniant y fasnachfraint yn ddigon cryf?

I would hope that the Cabinet Secretary will be able to respond to that specific point when he comes to bring his conclusions.

There remain questions—or perhaps the Cabinet Secretary won’t be able to answer all the questions today. But exactly what role the Government wants Transport for Wales to play is another question as well, and how it will ensure that Transport for Wales has sufficient people with the relevant skills that are required. The committee understands that Transport for Wales has been created to be flexible. But, as time ticks on, like any public body, in order to deliver, it will need clear instructions, clear expectations and sufficient funding and expertise to meet the challenges. There remain questions around how the Government will demonstrate value for money in the new franchise. To my mind, it’s not enough to say, and keep saying, that competitive dialogue drives value for money. Whilst a process can make value for money possible, it cannot itself demonstrate value for money. The process may, after all, be mishandled. The recommendation has been accepted by the Government, yet it’s hard to see, in my view, how Cabinet Secretary’s response moved beyond his evidence to us in April. I’m not convinced it will be enough for the Wales Audit Office, and neither for the people of Wales. We need to see clear evidence that this major contract offers value for the public money involved.

Buaswn yn gobeithio y bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn gallu ymateb i’r pwynt penodol hwnnw pan ddaw i roi ei gasgliadau.

Mae yna gwestiynau’n aros—neu efallai na fydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn gallu ateb y cwestiynau i gyd heddiw. Ond mae pa rôl y mae’r Llywodraeth eisiau i Trafnidiaeth Cymru ei chwarae yn gwestiwn arall hefyd, a sut y bydd yn sicrhau bod gan Trafnidiaeth Cymru ddigon o bobl â’r sgiliau perthnasol sydd eu hangen. Mae’r pwyllgor yn deall bod Trafnidiaeth Cymru wedi cael ei greu i fod yn hyblyg. Ond wrth i amser fynd heibio, fel unrhyw gorff cyhoeddus, er mwyn cyflawni, bydd angen iddo gael cyfarwyddiadau clir, disgwyliadau clir a digon o arian ac arbenigedd i oresgyn yr heriau. Mae yna gwestiynau o hyd ynglŷn â sut y bydd y Llywodraeth yn dangos gwerth am arian yn y fasnachfraint newydd. Yn fy marn i, nid yw’n ddigon i ddweud, a dal i ddweud, fod deialog gystadleuol yn ysgogi gwerth am arian. Er y gall proses wneud gwerth am arian yn bosibl, ni all ddangos gwerth am arian ei hun. Mae’n bosibl y caiff y broses ei chamdrafod, wedi’r cyfan. Derbyniwyd yr argymhelliad gan y Llywodraeth, ac eto mae’n anodd gweld, yn fy marn i, sut y mae ymateb Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi symud y tu hwnt i’w dystiolaeth i ni ym mis Ebrill. Nid wyf yn argyhoeddedig y bydd yn ddigon i Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, nac i bobl Cymru. Mae angen i ni weld tystiolaeth glir fod y contract mawr hwn yn cynnig gwerth am yr arian cyhoeddus sydd ynghlwm wrtho.

Daeth Joyce Watson i’r Gadair.

Joyce Watson took the Chair.

Finally, in the response—recommendation 14—there is a strong suggestion that the Welsh Government may be moving away from running freight on the core Valleys lines. This is a move that could have a significant knock-on effect for businesses wanting to use the lines to move goods in or out by rail in the future, and reduce opportunities to move freight off our roads. It is not to be taken lightly, and I trust there will be a thorough evaluation of costs and benefits both now and in the future before irreversible decisions are taken. I look forward to the debate today and hearing Members’ views, and comments from the Cabinet Secretary.

Yn olaf, yn yr ymateb—argymhelliad 14—ceir awgrym cryf efallai fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn ailfeddwl ynglŷn â chludo nwyddau ar gledrau craidd y Cymoedd. Dyma gam a allai gael effaith ganlyniadol sylweddol ar fusnesau sydd eisiau defnyddio’r rheilffyrdd i symud nwyddau i mewn neu allan ar y rheilffyrdd yn y dyfodol, a lleihau cyfleoedd i symud trafnidiaeth cludo nwyddau oddi ar ein ffyrdd. Nid yw’n fater i fod yn ysgafn yn ei gylch, a hyderaf y bydd gwerthusiad trylwyr o gostau a manteision yn awr ac yn y dyfodol cyn y gwneir penderfyniadau di-droi’n-ôl. Edrychaf ymlaen at y ddadl heddiw ac at glywed safbwyntiau’r Aelodau, a sylwadau gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet.

Thank you for your report. I think the issues it raises for my constituents is that the competitive bidding process has made it very difficult for residents of my constituency to be able to be part of the consultation on where they want the metro to be in order to enable them to make that modal shift transfer. I hope that once we do get round to awarding a contract to the new franchisee, they will instantly start to engage with citizens in order to ensure that their views are properly reflected. Because if we’re going to get modal shift from the motor car to the metro, it obviously has to be put in in places where people need to travel to, particularly around travelling to work, because we cannot go on with the situation we have at the moment, where far too many people are commuting into Cardiff by car, with all the adverse impact that that’s having on people’s health. I look forward to hearing how the Cabinet Secretary thinks we’re going to be able to fast-forward that arrangement once we have established who the franchisee is going to be.

Diolch i chi am eich adroddiad. Rwy’n credu mai’r pethau y mae’n eu codi i fy etholwyr yw bod y broses ymgeisio gystadleuol wedi ei gwneud yn anodd iawn i drigolion fy etholaeth fod yn rhan o’r ymgynghoriad ar ble y maent eisiau i’r metro fod er mwyn eu galluogi i wneud y newid moddol hwnnw. Pan fyddwn wedi llwyddo i ddyfarnu contract i ddeiliad newydd y fasnachfraint, rwy’n gobeithio y byddant yn dechrau ymgysylltu â dinasyddion yn syth er mwyn sicrhau bod eu safbwyntiau’n cael eu hadlewyrchu’n briodol. Oherwydd os ydym am gael newid moddol o’r car i’r metro, yn amlwg mae’n rhaid ei roi mewn mannau y mae pobl angen teithio iddynt, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â theithio i’r gwaith, oherwydd ni allwn barhau â’r sefyllfa sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd, lle y mae llawer gormod o bobl yn cymudo i Gaerdydd mewn car, gyda’r holl effeithiau andwyol y mae hynny’n eu cael ar iechyd pobl. Edrychaf ymlaen at glywed barn Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ar sut y gallwn gyflymu’r trefniant hwnnw pan fyddwn wedi pennu pwy fydd deiliad y fasnachfraint.

As our report states, for the Welsh Government to be letting a franchise for the first time represents a big challenge, and as the Welsh Government response states,

‘Passengers expect a high quality and efficient service that is affordable and accessible to all.’

In this response, the Cabinet Secretary states that if the Welsh Government secured the repeal of section 25 of the Railway Act 1993, they would take steps to ensure that future franchises are developed on a not-for-profit model. I proudly spent my previous career working in the mutual, not-for-profit sector, and they must be allowed to compete on a level playing field. However, because of my experience, I also know that they’re just as capable of inefficiency, poor service and financial failure as any other model. How then can the Cabinet Secretary justify putting such a monopolistic approach before his responsibility to passengers and taxpayers?

As UK Department for Transport officials told committee,

‘concession models can work in urban environments…but…on wider franchises such as Wales and borders, giving bidders the flexibility to innovate, develop new services, develop new ticket products, being incentivised to do so by the profit motive, is preferable.’

We also heard that—and I’m quoting—even the Chinese Communist Party recognised the need to incentivise risk.

In accepting recommendations 12 and 13 in principle, the Cabinet Secretary states that, as part of the procurement process, he expects to see higher quality rolling stock introduced, and that this will help to reduce the impact on the environment. In April, I hosted the Senedd launch of Furrer and Frey’s white paper for developing sustainable, agile, multimodal transport solutions for Wales. Speaking afterwards with Vivarail, the company rebuilding former London Underground metro cars for mainline use, they told me that they have sufficient stock to produce just over 70 three-car trains and that they could give us a fuller picture of the next steps for their business, including new battery-powered and hybrid trains. They also said that they were in discussions with Wales and borders rail franchise bidders. I shared this with the committee, and I think I raised this with the Cabinet Secretary in committee, and hope that he can update us on this today.

In accepting our recommendation 14 in principle only, the Cabinet Secretary stated that he was reviewing freight policy for the core Valleys lines and would update committee once the policy position had been confirmed. After discussions with the chair of the Rail Freight Forum and the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport at the Furrer and Frey event, I shared with committee his statement that rail freight is an important component of the Welsh economy, keeping 4,000 maximum-rate heavy goods vehicles off the roads each day and reducing carbon emissions by 76 per cent, but he said this must, of course, be protected in any enhancements to passenger services under the franchise. There is potential for increasing further the use of the Welsh rail network for freight, notably for slate waste and timber in the north and intermodal traffic along both the A55 to Holyhead and the M4 from the Thames to south Wales. I therefore hope that the Cabinet Secretary can say more about this today as well.

It is concerning that he only accepted in principle recommendation 15 that the Welsh Government should establish robust passenger and stakeholder engagement structures, including strong representation from the English regions. In July, I hosted an Assembly event organised by the ESP Group, highlighting the importance of inclusion and well-being in the design and delivery of transport services in Wales. They work in the area of inclusion and well-being in transport, including dementia and transport, older people and car cessation, rural transport and younger people accessing jobs and training. What engagement, therefore, has the Cabinet Secretary had or will be having with organisations such as the ESP Group and the Community Transport Association on this critical agenda?

It’s also concerning that the Cabinet Secretary only accepts recommendation 16 in principle, where the chair of the body set up by the Welsh Government to deliver the new franchise, Transport for Wales, a senior civil servant in the Welsh Government, should not be line managed by his own deputy. As the committee report stated, these arrangements are highly unusual and not sustainable.

Finally, given the Cabinet Secretary’s identification of risks and consequences arising because the UK Department for Transport was not in a position to support his intended tender issue date for the Wales and borders rail service, the UK transport Secretary’s response on 8 August, detailing what still needed to be done by the Cabinet Secretary to underpin this, raises serious questions.

Fel y dywed ein hadroddiad, mae’r ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gosod masnachfraint am y tro cyntaf yn her fawr, ac fel y dywed ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru,

‘Mae teithwyr yn disgwyl gwasanaeth effeithlon o ansawdd uchel sy’n fforddiadwy ac yn hygyrch i bawb.’

Yn yr ymateb hwn, mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn datgan, pe bai Llywodraeth Cymru yn sicrhau bod adran 25 o Ddeddf Rheilffyrdd 1993 yn cael ei diddymu, y buasent yn cymryd camau i sicrhau bod masnachfreintiau’n cael eu datblygu ar fodel dielw yn y dyfodol. Rwy’n falch o’r ffaith fy mod wedi treulio fy ngyrfa flaenorol yn gweithio yn y sector cydfuddiannol, dielw, ac mae’n rhaid caniatáu iddynt gystadlu ar sail gyfartal. Fodd bynnag, oherwydd fy mhrofiad, gwn hefyd eu bod lawn mor agored i fod yn aneffeithlon, darparu gwasanaeth gwael a methiant ariannol ag unrhyw fodel arall. Sut felly y gall Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet gyfiawnhau rhoi dull o weithredu mor fonopolistig o flaen ei gyfrifoldeb i deithwyr a threthdalwyr?

Fel y dywedodd swyddogion Adran Drafnidiaeth y DU wrth y pwyllgor,

gall modelau consesiwn weithio mewn amgylcheddau trefol... ond... ar fasnachfreintiau ehangach megis Cymru a’r gororau, mae rhoi’r hyblygrwydd i gynigwyr arloesi, datblygu gwasanaethau newydd, datblygu cynnyrch tocynnau newydd, a chael eu cymell i wneud hynny gan yr ysgogiad i wneud elw, yn well.

Clywsom hefyd—ac rwy’n dyfynnu—fod hyd yn oed Plaid Gomiwnyddol Tsieina yn cydnabod yr angen i gymell risg.

Wrth dderbyn argymhellion 12 a 13 mewn egwyddor, mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn datgan ei fod, yn rhan o’r broses gaffael, yn disgwyl gweld cerbydau o ansawdd uwch yn cael eu cyflwyno, ac y bydd hyn yn helpu i leihau’r effaith ar yr amgylchedd. Ym mis Ebrill, lansiais bapur gwyn Furrer and Frey yn y Senedd ar ddatblygu atebion trafnidiaeth cynaliadwy, hyblyg, amlfoddol ar gyfer Cymru. Wrth siarad wedyn gyda Vivarail, y cwmni sy’n ailadeiladu hen gerbydau metro rheilffordd danddaearol Llundain i’w defnyddio ar y brif reilffordd, roeddent yn dweud wrthyf fod ganddynt ddigon o gerbydau i gynhyrchu ychydig dros 70 o drenau tri cherbyd ac y gallent roi darlun llawnach inni o’r camau nesaf ar gyfer eu busnes, gan gynnwys trenau hybrid newydd a threnau a bwerir gan fatri. Roeddent hefyd yn dweud eu bod mewn trafodaethau gyda chynigwyr am fasnachfraint rheilffyrdd Cymru a’r gororau. Rhennais hyn gyda’r pwyllgor, ac rwy’n credu fy mod wedi ei grybwyll wrth Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn y pwyllgor, ac rwy’n gobeithio y gall roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am hyn i ni heddiw.

Wrth dderbyn ein hargymhelliad 14 mewn egwyddor yn unig, dywedodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ei fod yn adolygu’r polisi cludo nwyddau ar gyfer cledrau craidd y Cymoedd ac y byddai’n rhoi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i’r pwyllgor pan fydd y safbwynt polisi wedi cael ei gadarnhau. Ar ôl trafodaethau gyda chadeirydd y Rail Freight Forum a Sefydliad Siartredig Logisteg a Thrafnidiaeth yn nigwyddiad Furrer and Frey, rhennais gyda’r pwyllgor ei ddatganiad fod cludo nwyddau ar reilffyrdd yn rhan bwysig o economi Cymru, gan gadw 4,000 o gerbydau nwyddau trwm cyfradd uchaf oddi ar y ffyrdd bob dydd a lleihau allyriadau carbon 76 y cant, ond dywedodd fod yn rhaid i hyn, wrth gwrs, gael ei ddiogelu mewn unrhyw welliannau i wasanaethau teithwyr o dan y fasnachfraint. Ceir potensial ar gyfer cynyddu ymhellach y defnydd o rwydwaith rheilffyrdd Cymru ar gyfer cludo nwyddau, yn arbennig ar gyfer gwastraff llechi a choed yn y gogledd a thraffig rhyngfoddol ar hyd yr A55 i Gaergybi a’r M4 o’r Tafwys i dde Cymru. Rwy’n gobeithio felly y gall Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddweud mwy am hyn heddiw hefyd.

Mae’n peri pryder nad yw ond wedi derbyn argymhelliad 15 mewn egwyddor, sef y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru sefydlu strwythurau cadarn ar gyfer ymgysylltu â theithwyr a rhanddeiliaid, gan gynnwys cynrychiolaeth gref o ranbarthau Lloegr. Ym mis Gorffennaf, cynhaliais ddigwyddiad yn y Cynulliad a drefnwyd gan ESP Group a amlygai bwysigrwydd cynhwysiant a llesiant wrth gynllunio a darparu gwasanaethau trafnidiaeth yng Nghymru. Maent yn gweithio ym maes cynhwysiant a llesiant mewn trafnidiaeth, gan gynnwys dementia a thrafnidiaeth, pobl hŷn a rhoi’r gorau i yrru, trafnidiaeth wledig a hygyrchedd swyddi a hyfforddiant i bobl iau. Pa ymgysylltiad, felly, y mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi’i gael, neu y bydd yn ei gael, gyda sefydliadau fel ESP Group a’r Gymdeithas Cludiant Cymunedol ar yr agenda hollbwysig hon?

Mae hefyd yn peri pryder nad yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ond yn derbyn argymhelliad 16 mewn egwyddor yn unig, lle na ddylai cadeirydd y corff a sefydlwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i ddarparu’r fasnachfraint newydd, Trafnidiaeth Cymru, sy’n uwch was sifil yn Llywodraeth Cymru, gael ei ddirprwy ei hun yn rheolwr llinell. Fel y nodwyd yn adroddiad y pwyllgor, mae’r trefniadau hyn yn anarferol iawn ac nid ydynt yn gynaliadwy.

Yn olaf, o ystyried y ffaith bod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi nodi’r peryglon a’r canlyniadau sy’n codi am nad oedd Adran Drafnidiaeth y DU mewn sefyllfa i gefnogi ei ddyddiad cyhoeddi tendr arfaethedig ar gyfer gwasanaeth rheilffyrdd Cymru a’r gororau, mae ymateb Ysgrifennydd trafnidiaeth y DU ar 8 Awst, yn manylu ar beth oedd yn dal i fod angen i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ei wneud i ategu hyn, yn codi cwestiynau difrifol.

Can I thank Russell George, first of all, for an excellent introduction to this report? I’m pleased to be able to contribute to the debate this afternoon. Plainly, rail is not devolved to Wales at the moment. In particular, rail infrastructure is not devolved, and, obviously, the franchising process, meaning passenger service procurement, similarly remains not devolved.

Now, despite every commitment to the contrary, Labour will hand the next rail franchise to a private sector operator, and, by all the evidence so far, they are even failing to do that effectively. Incompetence from Westminster and the underperformance of Labour here has meant that delays to the devolution of the Welsh rail franchise will already cost taxpayers an extra £3.5 million, and possibly derail—pun intended—the whole franchise procurement process.

A £1 billion black hole remains in the funding of the franchise, and the Welsh Government still does not have the powers to procure the franchise. I look forward to an update. Westminster’s apathy and Labour’s issues here are costing Welsh taxpayers millions and could mean delays for rail passengers.

Now, more on the delays in transfer of rail procurement powers, Plaid Cymru politicians in Westminster and here have consistently highlighted concerns that the transfer of functions relating to procurement has not taken place. We’ve noted several responses before and obviously we’ve had some public responses over the summer, but those issues remain unresolved and the franchise and tender documents still do not appear to be fully functional.

Now, despite various commitments in their manifestos and on the floor of the Assembly, Labour in Cardiff have shortlisted four train operating companies to run the Wales and borders rail franchise, as we all know, from October 2018—four private operating companies. Labour claim to be restricted by the Railways Act 1993, which precludes public sector operators, which is the clarification sought in recommendation 2 of the committee’s report. But it’s fair to note that, during the passage of the Wales Bill, now the Wales Act 2017, Labour in Westminster attempted to amend the 1993 railways Act to allow a public sector rail operator to compete for the Welsh franchise, as is the case in Scotland since the most recent Scotland Act. But despite failing to gain this concession, they supported the Wales Bill LCM here in the Assembly, making any long-term commitment to public ownership somewhat vacuous, considering they supported a Bill that actively precluded them from doing so.

So, challenges remain as regards tendering and the whole franchise procurement process. I look forward to the Cabinet Secretary’s reply this afternoon. As I’ve mentioned, delays have already cost taxpayers an extra £3.5 million: money that ideally should have been used towards improving rail services and the litany of issues identified by passengers that Russell George ran through at the start, moneys that could have been used to improve accessibility and improve facilities, train punctuality, cleanliness, and to bring about fair and affordable ticket prices. But at the end of the day, is control over our own railway system too much to ask? Diolch yn fawr.

A gaf fi ddiolch i Russell George, yn gyntaf oll, am gyflwyniad ardderchog i’r adroddiad hwn? Rwy’n falch o allu cyfrannu at y ddadl y prynhawn yma. Yn amlwg, nid yw’r rheilffyrdd wedi eu datganoli i Gymru ar hyn o bryd. Yn benodol, nid yw seilwaith rheilffyrdd wedi’i ddatganoli, ac yn amlwg, nid yw’r broses o osod y fasnachfraint, sef caffael gwasanaethau teithwyr, wedi’i datganoli chwaith.

Nawr, er gwaethaf pob ymrwymiad i’r gwrthwyneb, bydd Llafur yn rhoi masnachfraint nesaf y rheilffyrdd i weithredwr sector preifat, ac yn ôl yr holl dystiolaeth hyd yn hyn, nid ydynt yn gallu gwneud hynny’n effeithiol hyd yn oed. Mae blerwch San Steffan a thangyflawniad Llafur yma wedi golygu y bydd oedi i’r broses o ddatganoli masnachfraint rheilffyrdd Cymru eisoes yn costio £3.5 miliwn yn ychwanegol i drethdalwyr, ac o bosibl yn taflu’r holl broses o gaffael masnachfraint oddi ar y cledrau—gan chwarae ar eiriau’n fwriadol.

Mae twll du gwerth £1 biliwn yn dal i fod yng nghyllid y fasnachfraint, ac nid oes gan Lywodraeth Cymru bwerau o hyd i gaffael y fasnachfraint. Edrychaf ymlaen at gael y newyddion diweddaraf. Mae difaterwch San Steffan a phroblemau Llafur yma yn costio miliynau i drethdalwyr Cymru ac fe allai hynny olygu oedi i deithwyr trên.

Nawr, parthed yr oedi ar drosglwyddo pwerau caffael y rheilffyrdd, mae gwleidyddion Plaid Cymru yn San Steffan ac yma wedi tynnu sylw’n gyson at bryderon nad yw’r broses o drosglwyddo swyddogaethau sy’n ymwneud â chaffael wedi digwydd. Rydym wedi nodi nifer o ymatebion o’r blaen ac yn amlwg cawsom rai ymatebion cyhoeddus dros yr haf, ond nid yw’r materion hynny wedi eu datrys ac nid yw’n ymddangos bod dogfennau’r fasnachfraint a thendrau yn gwbl weithredol o hyd.

Nawr, er gwaethaf amryw o ymrwymiadau yn eu maniffestos ac ar lawr y Cynulliad, mae Llafur yng Nghaerdydd wedi gosod pedwar cwmni gweithredu trenau ar y rhestr fer i weithredu masnachfraint rheilffyrdd Cymru a’r gororau, fel y gŵyr pawb ohonom, o Hydref 2018 ymlaen—pedwar cwmni gweithredu preifat. Mae Llafur yn honni eu bod wedi eu cyfyngu gan Ddeddf Rheilffyrdd 1993, sy’n rhwystro gweithredwyr yn y sector cyhoeddus, sef yr eglurhad y gofynnir amdano yn argymhelliad 2 yn adroddiad y pwyllgor. Ond mae’n deg nodi, yn ystod taith Bil Cymru, Deddf Cymru 2017 erbyn hyn, fod Llafur yn San Steffan wedi ceisio diwygio Deddf rheilffyrdd 1993 er mwyn caniatáu i weithredwr trenau sector cyhoeddus gystadlu am fasnachfraint Cymru, fel sy’n digwydd yn yr Alban ers y Ddeddf yr Alban ddiweddaraf. Ond er gwaethaf y methiant i ennill y consesiwn hwn, roeddent yn cefnogi cynnig cydsyniad deddfwriaethol Bil Cymru yma yn y Cynulliad, gan wneud unrhyw ymrwymiad hirdymor i berchnogaeth gyhoeddus braidd yn ddiystyr, o ystyried eu bod wedi cefnogi Bil a oedd yn eu rhwystro’n weithredol rhag gwneud hynny.

Felly, mae heriau’n parhau o ran tendro a’r holl broses o gaffael masnachfraint. Edrychaf ymlaen at ymateb Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet y prynhawn yma. Fel y crybwyllais, mae oedi eisoes wedi costio £3.5 miliwn ychwanegol i drethdalwyr: arian a ddylai, yn ddelfrydol, fod wedi cael ei ddefnyddio i wella gwasanaethau rheilffordd a’r rhestr o broblemau a nodwyd gan deithwyr y soniodd Russell George amdanynt ar y dechrau, arian y gellid bod wedi’i ddefnyddio i wella hygyrchedd a gwella cyfleusterau, prydlondeb a glendid trenau, ac i sicrhau bod prisiau tocynnau’n deg a fforddiadwy. Ond yn y pen draw, a yw rheolaeth dros ein system reilffordd ein hunain yn ormod i ofyn amdano? Diolch yn fawr.

Well, Dai Lloyd’s put himself through some intellectual contortions there in order to pin the blame on the Welsh Government, and I think that’s deeply unfair, particularly given the depth and breadth of evidence that was gathered in this report. I really don’t think that Dai Lloyd did it justice with that speech. I think it was deeply, deeply unfair. It is absolutely the case that the previous franchise is a failing franchise, and every time a constituent in Caerphilly gets on a train to travel either from Rhymney to Cardiff or any point on that journey, I can hear people getting angry. Overcrowded trains, poor quality carriages, trains that are regularly late and expensive ticket prices—these are all things that are not good enough, but that’s a failure of the previous franchise and it’s something that the Welsh Government is taking steps to address.

The other thing I would say is I’ve raised these issues with Arriva time and time again, and although I would question Arriva’s competence as a corporate body, individual members of staff at Arriva have been incredibly helpful and supportive in trying to find solutions, for example in finding ways to add two carriages in the morning to the peak first two-carriage service of the day on the Rhymney-to-Cardiff line, which travels through Bargoed and Caerphilly. They’ve been incredibly helpful in trying to achieve that, and have also added additional Sunday services on the Rhymney-to-Cardiff line. So, they are, I think, doing their best, including heroic jobs to keep the poor-quality Pacer stock running on the service.

With regard to the report, recommendations 5 and 7 concern that responsibility for the core Valleys lines and the need to secure adequate funding and mitigate liabilities and risk, and the Welsh Government has accepted those recommendations, and recommendations 10, 12 and 13 concern the issue of rolling stock that I’ve just mentioned and the need for the next franchise operator to ensure that enough is provided to deal with these numbers. The issue is, of course, rolling stock: that if it’s diesel and not electrified, it’s very hard to get hold of, and indeed procuring new rolling stock takes a number of years, which is a challenge I’m sure the Cabinet Secretary will be addressing immediately.

Wel, mae Dai Lloyd wedi cyflawni rhai ystumiadau deallusol yn y fan honno er mwyn rhoi’r bai ar Lywodraeth Cymru, ac rwy’n credu bod hynny’n hynod o annheg, yn enwedig o ystyried dyfnder ac ehangder y dystiolaeth a gasglwyd yn yr adroddiad hwn. Nid wyf yn credu bod Dai Lloyd wedi gwneud cyfiawnder â hynny yn ei araith. Rwy’n credu ei bod yn araith hynod o annheg. Mae’n bendant yn wir fod y fasnachfraint flaenorol yn fasnachfraint sy’n methu, a phob tro y bydd etholwr yng Nghaerffili yn dal trên i deithio naill ai o Rymni i Gaerdydd neu unrhyw bwynt ar y daith honno, gallaf glywed pobl yn gwylltio. Trenau gorlawn, cerbydau o ansawdd gwael, trenau sy’n hwyr yn rheolaidd a phrisiau tocynnau drud—mae’r rhain i gyd yn bethau nad ydynt yn ddigon da, ond methiant y fasnachfraint flaenorol yw hynny ac mae’n rhywbeth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cymryd camau i fynd i’r afael ag ef.

Y peth arall y buaswn yn ei ddweud yw fy mod wedi dwyn y materion hyn i sylw Arriva dro ar ôl tro, ac er y buaswn yn cwestiynu cymhwysedd Arriva fel corff corfforaethol, mae aelodau unigol o staff Arriva wedi bod yn hynod o gymwynasgar a chefnogol wrth geisio dod o hyd i atebion, er enghraifft drwy ddod o hyd i ffyrdd o ychwanegu dau gerbyd yn y bore i wasanaeth brig dau gerbyd cyntaf y dydd ar y rheilffordd o Rymni i Gaerdydd, sy’n teithio drwy Fargoed a Chaerffili. Maent wedi bod yn hynod o gymwynasgar wrth geisio cyflawni hynny, ac maent hefyd wedi ychwanegu gwasanaethau ychwanegol ar y Sul ar reilffordd Rhymni i Gaerdydd. Felly, rwy’n credu eu bod yn gwneud eu gorau, gan gynnwys gwaith arwrol i gadw’r cerbydau Pacer o ansawdd gwael yn weithredol ar y gwasanaeth.

O ran yr adroddiad, mae argymhellion 5 a 7 yn ymwneud â’r cyfrifoldeb dros gledrau craidd y Cymoedd a’r angen i sicrhau cyllid digonol a lliniaru rhwymedigaethau a risg, ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn yr argymhellion hynny, ac mae argymhellion 10, 12 a 13 yn ymwneud â’r mater cerbydau a grybwyllais yn awr, a’r angen i weithredwr nesaf y fasnachfraint sicrhau bod digon yn cael eu darparu i ymdopi â’r niferoedd hyn. Y broblem, wrth gwrs, yw cerbydau: mae’n anodd cael gafael arnynt os ydynt yn gerbydau diesel yn hytrach na cherbydau wedi’u trydaneiddio, ac yn wir mae caffael cerbydau newydd yn cymryd nifer o flynyddoedd, sy’n her y bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn mynd i’r afael â hi ar unwaith rwy’n siŵr.

Steffan Lewis a gododd—

Steffan Lewis rose—

I thank the Member for giving way. He rightly points to the age of the rolling stock on the Welsh franchise. I wonder if he agrees with me that due to the age of the rolling stock and the incidents of doors jamming and even fires on them, built into the next franchise contract—whoever gets it—should be a commitment not to cut the number of guards on the Welsh franchise from the point of view of the safety of the passengers and the staff that have to use such old rolling stock.

Diolch i’r Aelod am ildio. Mae’n cyfeirio’n briodol at oed y cerbydau ar fasnachfraint Cymru. Oherwydd oed y cerbydau a’r achosion o ddrysau’n mynd yn sownd a hyd yn oed tanau ar drenau, tybed a yw’n cytuno â mi y dylid cynnwys ymrwymiad yng nghontract y fasnachfraint nesaf—pwy bynnag fydd yn ei chael—i beidio torri nifer y gardiau ar fasnachfraint Cymru o safbwynt diogelwch y teithwyr a’r staff sy’n gorfod defnyddio cerbydau mor hen.

Safety is an issue that the Secretary should be considering and he’s nodding, so he’s heard what you’ve just said; absolutely fair. The other issue, of course, is the funding dispute that’s currently going on with the Welsh Government. The Cabinet Secretary gave evidence this morning to the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee, and he showed remarkable restraint, and I think it’s subject to the fact that he’s having ongoing dialogue with the UK Treasury and I would expect nothing less from him. Nonetheless, I reserve the right to say the UK Government has let us down. In 2014, the transport Secretary in the UK Government wrote to the predecessor of the Cabinet Secretary to say the block grant would be unaffected and reasonable protection provided against the impact of regulatory reviews and track access charges. That promise was made to safeguard that. That was further made to the predecessor Committee to the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee in 2015—September 2015—an official from the Department of Transport made exactly the same promise and, therefore, the Cabinet Secretary was able to tell the Committee in April this year that we expected the block grant to be reasonably protected from the impact of track access charges. Something has changed; something has changed in the UK Government and we can’t work out what it is. The UK Government are now refusing to safeguard the block grant from those track access charges, which is threatening this rail franchise and the Government working hard to resolve it. I think it’s a good thing that that issue has been separated from the issue of the awarding of the contract, but this is something that must be resolved, and I can see that the Cabinet Secretary will work on that. If the Welsh Government is to effectively implement these recommendations in the report without being hamstrung financially by the UK Government, then we could see a transformation of rail services. And what I would say to Dai Lloyd is that I’m seeing a Welsh Government working hard to do that, in spite of difficulties that have been put in the way by the UK Government, and I urge all parties in this Chamber to get behind this report and get behind the Government in resolving this rail franchise.

Mae diogelwch yn fater y dylai’r Ysgrifennydd ei ystyried ac mae’n nodio, felly mae wedi clywed yr hyn rydych newydd ei ddweud; hollol deg. Y mater arall, wrth gwrs, yw’r anghydfod ariannu sy’n digwydd ar hyn o bryd gyda Llywodraeth Cymru. Rhoddodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dystiolaeth y bore yma i Bwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau, a dangosodd ymatalgarwch rhyfeddol, ac rwy’n credu bod hynny’n deillio o’r ffaith ei fod yn cael trafodaethau parhaus â Thrysorlys y DU ac ni fuaswn yn disgwyl llai ganddo. Serch hynny, rwy’n cadw’r hawl i ddweud bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi ein siomi. Yn 2014, ysgrifennodd Ysgrifennydd trafnidiaeth Llywodraeth y DU at ragflaenydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet i ddweud na fyddai’r grant bloc yn cael ei effeithio ac y byddai’n cael ei ddiogelu’n rhesymol rhag effaith adolygiadau rheoleiddio a thaliadau mynediad i’r trac. Cafodd yr addewid hwnnw ei wneud i ddiogelu hynny. Cafodd ei wneud hefyd i’r Pwyllgor Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau blaenorol yn 2015—mis Medi 2015—addawodd swyddog o’r Adran Drafnidiaeth yr un peth yn union ac felly roedd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn gallu dweud wrth y Pwyllgor ym mis Ebrill eleni ein bod yn disgwyl i’r grant bloc gael ei ddiogelu’n rhesymol rhag effaith y taliadau mynediad i’r trac. Mae rhywbeth wedi newid; mae rhywbeth wedi newid yn Llywodraeth y DU ac ni allwn ddweud beth ydyw. Mae Llywodraeth y DU yn awr yn gwrthod diogelu’r grant bloc rhag y taliadau mynediad i’r trac, sy’n bygwth y fasnachfraint reilffyrdd a’r Llywodraeth yn gweithio’n galed i’w ddatrys. Rwy’n credu ei fod yn beth da fod y mater hwnnw wedi ei wahanu oddi wrth fater dyfarnu’r contract, ond mae hwn yn rhywbeth sy’n rhaid ei ddatrys, a gallaf weld y bydd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn gweithio ar hynny. Os yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn mynd i weithredu’r argymhellion yn yr adroddiad yn effeithiol heb gael ei llyffetheirio’n ariannol gan Lywodraeth y DU, gallem weld gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd yn cael eu trawsnewid. A’r hyn y buaswn yn ei ddweud wrth Dai Lloyd yw fy mod yn gweld Llywodraeth Cymru sy’n gweithio’n galed i wneud hynny, er gwaethaf yr anawsterau a roddwyd yn ei ffordd gan Lywodraeth y DU, ac rwy’n annog pob plaid yn y Siambr hon i gefnogi’r adroddiad a chefnogi’r Llywodraeth i ddatrys y fasnachfraint reilffyrdd.

It must be acknowledged by all parties in this Assembly that the intransigence of the UK Government in both the commitment to funding and the devolution of the necessary powers to the Welsh Government is making procurement and the franchise award infinitely more difficult for the Welsh Government to realise its ambitions for rail services in Wales and the delivery of the metro. This must also be seen in the light that in order to deliver these objectives, the Welsh Government has decided to instigate a totally new governing body in the form of Transport Wales. We also acknowledge the huge complexities in the transfer of the ownership of the core Valleys lines and the ongoing commitment this means for the Welsh Government. Perhaps the Cabinet Secretary could also update us on the position with regard to the £125 million that was promised for electrification of the core Valleys lines, and whether this will be forthcoming if electrification does not go ahead. Given these issues, or perhaps one would say ‘almost insurmountable difficulties’, is the Cabinet Secretary confident that the aspirations of the Welsh Government for the rail network in Wales, as envisaged, will indeed by achieved?

Following an update session with the Cabinet Secretary’s staff yesterday, I fully understand why the Welsh Government has decided to go ahead with the issues of the tenders. We were told that if matters went beyond Christmas, there was a very real possibility of two bidders dropping out of the tender process. UKIP calls upon the UK Government to give full funding and devolvement to the Welsh Government.

Mae’n rhaid i bob plaid yn y Cynulliad hwn gydnabod bod anhyblygrwydd Llywodraeth y DU yn yr ymrwymiad i ariannu a datganoli’r pwerau angenrheidiol i Lywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud y broses gaffael a dyfarnu’r fasnachfraint gryn dipyn yn fwy anodd i Lywodraeth Cymru allu gwireddu ei dyheadau ar gyfer gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru a chyflwyno’r metro. Mae’n rhaid edrych ar hyn hefyd yng ngoleuni’r ffaith fod Llywodraeth Cymru, er mwyn cyflawni’r amcanion hyn, wedi penderfynu ffurfio corff llywodraethu cwbl newydd ar ffurf Trafnidiaeth Cymru. Rydym hefyd yn cydnabod y cymhlethdodau enfawr wrth drosglwyddo perchnogaeth cledrau craidd y Cymoedd a’r ymrwymiad parhaus y mae hyn yn ei olygu i Lywodraeth Cymru. Efallai y gallai Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i ni am y sefyllfa mewn perthynas â’r £125 miliwn a addawyd ar gyfer trydaneiddio cledrau craidd y Cymoedd, a pha un a fydd yr arian hwn ar gael os nad yw trydaneiddio’n digwydd. O ystyried y materion hyn, neu efallai y byddai rhywun yn dweud ‘anawsterau bron yn anorchfygol’, a yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn hyderus y bydd dyheadau Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer y rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru, fel y’i rhagwelwyd, yn cael eu cyflawni?

Yn dilyn sesiwn ddiweddaru gyda staff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ddoe, rwy’n deall yn iawn pam fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi penderfynu bwrw ymlaen â materion y tendrau. Dywedwyd wrthym, pe bai pethau’n para y tu hwnt i’r Nadolig, fod posibilrwydd real iawn y byddai dau gynigydd yn tynnu’n ôl o’r broses dendro. Mae UKIP yn galw ar Lywodraeth y DU i roi cyllid a datganoli llawn i Lywodraeth Cymru.

It’s a pleasure to be able to contribute to this inquiry and to the resulting report as well, as a Member for a Valleys constituency, where improvements in rail infrastructure are so very desperately needed. For my contribution today, I want to focus on just a few of the recommendations. First of all, recommendation 10 is critical to ensuring that we meet future demand. The previous franchise, as has already been mentioned, failed to make any provision for growth, whether through carrot or stick, and we are facing the consequences of this now. My constituents frequently contact me to complain about the cramped travelling conditions they can face during peak-time journeys. So, I welcome the Welsh Government’s accepting of this recommendation, both in terms of expecting bidders to show how they will build in the capacity to meet demand, and how they will use a range of tools to monitor passenger satisfaction.

Recommendation 12 raised the linked issue of those occasions when passenger demand spikes, for example, in connection with sporting events in Cardiff. Just yesterday, I met a group of my constituents here who’d come to visit the Senedd, and the very first thing that they wanted to speak to me about was the challenges that they felt they faced in accessing rail services when they want to come to the capital city to attend football or rugby matches. It is good that the Welsh Government has accepted this recommendation in principle, but I am still concerned that bad experiences on occasions like this could deter people from relying on our train services and using them on a more regular basis, when we so desperately need to try and convince more of our citizens to make that shift from the car onto public transport.

The Welsh Government accepted our recommendation 17 that

‘the evidence base for future decisions and prioritisation of the Metro considers the spatial context.’

But I have some reservations here on the need to get this right. ‘Prosperity for All’ committed itself to

‘ensuring that all new and significant developments…are sited within easy reach of a station.’

This is a laudable aim indeed, but I would appreciate clarification that this could refer to bus as well as train stations within the context of the pan-south Wales metro. My reason for saying this is because I feel there are particular challenges around the topography of the Valleys, and the northern Valleys such as Cynon in particular, where our most disadvantaged communities are the ones that are actually furthest from the railway line. It’s really important that we recognise that and that future developments don’t just restrict themselves to that central flat Valleys floor, but are actually encouraged to go further up into the Valleys where we will see the bus stops for the metro as well. I think that’s an important social justice angle and one that I would appreciate some clarification on.

Mae’n bleser gallu cyfrannu at yr ymchwiliad hwn ac at yr adroddiad a ddeilliodd ohono hefyd, fel Aelod dros etholaeth yn y Cymoedd, lle y ceir angen mor daer am welliannau i’r seilwaith rheilffyrdd. Ar gyfer fy nghyfraniad heddiw, hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar ychydig o’r argymhellion. Yn gyntaf oll, mae argymhelliad 10 yn hanfodol er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn ateb y galw yn y dyfodol. Fel y soniwyd eisoes, methodd y fasnachfraint flaenorol wneud unrhyw ddarpariaeth ar gyfer twf, drwy gymell neu orfodi, ac rydym yn wynebu canlyniadau hynny yn awr. Mae fy etholwyr yn aml yn cysylltu â mi i gwyno am yr amodau teithio cyfyng y maent yn gallu eu hwynebu yn ystod teithiau ar adegau prysur. Felly, rwy’n croesawu’r ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn derbyn yr argymhelliad hwn, o safbwynt disgwyl i gynigwyr ddangos sut y byddant yn adeiladu capasiti i ateb y galw, a sut y byddant yn defnyddio ystod o offer i fonitro bodlonrwydd teithwyr.

Roedd argymhelliad 12 yn codi mater cysylltiedig yr achlysuron hynny pan fo galw teithwyr yn cynyddu’n sydyn, er enghraifft yng nghyd-destun digwyddiadau chwaraeon yng Nghaerdydd. Ddoe, cyfarfûm â grŵp o fy etholwyr a oedd wedi dod i ymweld â’r Senedd, a’r peth cyntaf roeddent eisiau siarad â mi yn ei gylch oedd yr heriau y teimlent eu bod yn eu hwynebu wrth ddefnyddio gwasanaethau trên pan fyddant eisiau dod i’r brifddinas i fynychu gemau pêl-droed neu rygbi. Mae’n dda fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn yr argymhelliad hwn mewn egwyddor, ond rwy’n dal i fod yn bryderus y gallai profiadau gwael ar adegau fel hyn rwystro pobl rhag dibynnu ar ein gwasanaethau trên a’u defnyddio ar sail fwy rheolaidd, pan fo angen mor daer inni geisio argyhoeddi mwy o’n dinasyddion i wneud y newid hwnnw o’r car i drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus.

Derbyniodd Llywodraeth Cymru ein hargymhelliad 17 y dylid sicrhau bod

‘sail dystiolaeth penderfyniadau yn y dyfodol a blaenoriaethau’r Metro [yn] ystyried y cyd-destun gofodol.’

Ond mae gennyf rai amheuon yma ar yr angen i wneud hyn yn iawn. Roedd ‘Ffyniant i Bawb’ yn ymrwymo ei hun i

‘sicrhau bod pob datblygiad newydd ac arwyddocaol... o fewn cyrraedd hwylus i orsaf.’

Mae hwn yn nod canmoladwy yn wir, ond buaswn yn gwerthfawrogi eglurhad y gallasai hyn gyfeirio at orsafoedd bysiau yn ogystal â gorsafoedd trên yng nghyd-destun metro de Cymru gyfan. Fy rheswm dros ddweud hyn yw fy mod yn teimlo bod yna heriau penodol ynglŷn â thopograffi’r Cymoedd, a’r Cymoedd gogleddol megis cwm Cynon yn arbennig, lle y gwelwn mai ein cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig yw’r rhai sydd bellaf oddi wrth y rheilffordd mewn gwirionedd. Mae’n bwysig iawn ein bod yn cydnabod hynny ac nad yw datblygiadau yn y dyfodol yn gyfyngedig i waelod y Cymoedd canolog gwastad, ond eu bod mewn gwirionedd yn cael eu hannog i symud ymhellach i fyny’r Cymoedd lle y byddwn yn gweld y safleoedd bysiau ar gyfer y metro yn ogystal. Rwy’n credu bod honno’n ongl bwysig o ran cyfiawnder cymdeithasol ac yn un y buaswn yn gwerthfawrogi rhywfaint o eglurhad arni.

I have to say that a lot of these arguments are very familiar. I think that those of us who have served since 1999 are now affectionately known in the Assembly as ‘the lifers’—[Laughter.]—and it does feel that way sometimes. I see there are two other lifers in the Chamber. Indeed, Dr Lloyd was first elected in 1999, but because of his good behaviour, he was given a brief period of parole, but of course we are delighted that he’s back serving his time. The point I want to make is that, when all this was discussed in 2003, we didn’t have the powers. These wider arguments about infrastructure and how we would be able to control the wider sort of environment so that we could make effective decisions were discussed. When I was Chair of the Audit Committee, there was a report pointing out some of the shortcomings in the procedures that were adopted and, you know, regretting perhaps the decision of the Welsh Government at that time not to take these powers because they thought they were getting such a poor deal from the UK Government—then, of course, a Labour Government. So, I think it is really important that the committee points to the issue of more effective collaboration being required between the different Governments, because there’s a strategic issue here, and it’s slightly depressing that, 15 years later, people are making similar points. I don’t express how valid they are, but, clearly, many people hold these views and some of them, no doubt, do have some substance.

Can I say that I particularly note, as a Member serving the Valleys, that the risk of transferring ownership of the Valleys lines to the Welsh Government does concern me, as does the rather sad plight of freight in the Valleys? Most of the Valleys networks were actually developed for freight, and it was a secondary thing to have passenger transport on them. So, I do think we should be very careful about losing that capacity to carry freight.

I’m particularly pleased to see the recommendations around greener railways, effective monitoring and affordable fares, as well as the redevelopment of Cardiff Central station and the long-promised rail electrification to Swansea. I’d say, as a Welsh Conservative, that I only wish that that commitment had been maintained, and we’re completely right to argue that it should be reinstated.

I’m a regular user of Arriva trains, and, you know, I speak with experience about the quality of the service over that time, but it actually does return to a rather dull franchise being awarded in the first place. I noticed that the Welsh Affairs Committee looked at this and called the service rather ‘old and cramped’ and said that at the heart of the failure was the inability to anticipate remarkable passenger growth. We should be celebrating the passenger growth. In fairness, I don’t know quite how active Arriva Trains have been in that but, I mean, it has happened, and that ought to be something that we really want to take further because that rather dry phrase ‘modal shift’ is really, really important. Even in the last few years, this process has continued with over 0.25 million extra commuters now using the service in south Wales, so those are really important things.

I want to make some more general points about freight, having referred earlier to the Valleys. I’m not quite sure that the Government knows quite where it’s going, because the previous administration under Rhodri Morgan did identify freight and its growth and development as being really important, so I’m disappointed that you are only accepting recommendation 14 in principle. I have to say, as a former Chair of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee, I never quite like Governments when they accept ‘in principle’ because you don’t really know what that means, do you, other than some sort of milk-and-water endorsement that doesn’t get you very far? But, the Cabinet Secretary’s response highlights that the demand for freight has reduced recently due to the closure of opencast mining in some areas. But, previously, the potential for increasing freight in such areas as maritime containers has been identified by the Government, and I fear that perhaps they’re losing sight of that now.

The report says that the Government’s intentions are on a heroic scale and I don’t think we should criticise them for that, but we do need to ensure that the monitoring and scrutiny is effective, so that some of these ambitions are realised. But, I do congratulate my colleague Russell George and his committee members on a thoroughly good piece of work. I think this report will stand us in good stead to monitor the Government’s performance in the future.

Mae’n rhaid i mi ddweud bod llawer o’r dadleuon hyn yn gyfarwydd iawn. Rwy’n credu bod y rhai ohonom sydd wedi gwasanaethu ers 1999 yn cael ein galw’n ‘garcharorion oes’ yn y Cynulliad—[Chwerthin.]—ac mae’n teimlo felly weithiau. Gwelaf fod dau garcharor oes arall yn y Siambr. Yn wir, etholwyd Dr Lloyd yn gyntaf yn 1999, ond oherwydd ei ymddygiad da, cafodd gyfnod byr o barôl, ond wrth gwrs rydym wrth ein bodd ei fod yn ôl yn treulio ei dymor. Y pwynt rwyf am ei wneud yw, pan drafodwyd hyn i gyd yn 2003, nid oedd gennym y pwerau. Trafodwyd y dadleuon ehangach ynghylch seilwaith a sut y byddem yn gallu rheoli’r math ehangach o amgylchedd inni allu gwneud penderfyniadau effeithiol. Pan oeddwn yn Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Archwilio, roedd yna adroddiad yn tynnu sylw at rai o’r diffygion yn y gweithdrefnau a fabwysiadwyd, wyddoch chi, ac efallai’n difaru penderfyniad Llywodraeth Cymru ar y pryd i beidio â chymryd y pwerau hyn oherwydd eu bod yn credu eu bod yn cael bargen mor wael gan Lywodraeth y DU—a oedd ar y pryd, wrth gwrs, yn Llywodraeth Lafur. Felly, rwy’n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn fod y pwyllgor yn cyfeirio at yr angen am gydweithio mwy effeithiol rhwng y gwahanol Lywodraethau, gan fod yna fater strategol yma, ac mae hi braidd yn ddigalon, 15 mlynedd yn ddiweddarach, fod pobl yn gwneud pwyntiau tebyg. Nid wyf yn mynegi pa mor ddilys ydynt, ond yn amlwg, mae llawer o bobl yn arddel y safbwyntiau hyn ac nid oes amheuaeth fod rhywfaint o sylwedd yn perthyn i rai ohonynt.

A gaf fi ddweud fy mod yn nodi’n arbennig, fel Aelod sy’n gwasanaethu’r Cymoedd, fod y risg o drosglwyddo perchnogaeth rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd i Lywodraeth Cymru yn peri pryder i mi, fel y mae’r sefyllfa braidd yn drist ynglŷn â chludo nwyddau yn y Cymoedd? Cafodd y rhan fwyaf o rwydweithiau’r Cymoedd eu datblygu ar gyfer cludo nwyddau mewn gwirionedd, a rhywbeth eilradd oedd cludo teithwyr arnynt. Felly, rwy’n credu y dylem fod yn ofalus iawn ynglŷn â cholli’r capasiti i gario nwyddau.

Rwy’n arbennig o falch o weld yr argymhellion sy’n ymwneud â rheilffyrdd gwyrddach, monitro effeithiol a phrisiau fforddiadwy, yn ogystal ag ailddatblygu gorsaf Caerdydd Canolog a’r cynlluniau a addawyd ers amser maith i drydaneiddio’r rheilffordd i Abertawe. Buaswn yn dweud, fel Ceidwadwr Cymreig, y buaswn yn hoffi’n fawr pe bai’r ymrwymiad hwnnw wedi cael ei gadw, ac rydym yn hollol gywir i ddadlau y dylai gael ei adfer.

Rwy’n defnyddio trenau Arriva yn rheolaidd, ac rwy’n siarad o brofiad am ansawdd y gwasanaeth dros y cyfnod hwnnw, ond mewn gwirionedd daw’n ôl at y ffaith mai masnachfraint anniddorol braidd sy’n cael ei dyfarnu yn y lle cyntaf. Sylwais fod y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig wedi edrych ar hyn ac wedi galw’r gwasanaeth braidd yn ‘hen ac yn gyfyng’ a dywedodd mai’r anallu i ragweld y cynnydd rhyfeddol yn nifer y teithwyr oedd wrth wraidd y methiant. Dylem ddathlu’r cynnydd yn nifer y teithwyr. I fod yn deg, nid wyf yn gwybod yn union pa mor weithgar y mae Trenau Arriva wedi bod yn hynny, ond, hynny yw, mae wedi digwydd, a dylai hynny fod yn rhywbeth rydym am fynd ag ef ymhellach mewn gwirionedd oherwydd mae’r ymadrodd sych hwnnw ‘newid moddol’ yn wirioneddol bwysig. Hyd yn oed yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf, mae’r broses hon wedi parhau gyda dros 0.25 miliwn o gymudwyr ychwanegol bellach yn defnyddio’r gwasanaeth yn ne Cymru, felly mae’r rheini’n bethau pwysig iawn.

Rwyf am wneud rhai pwyntiau mwy cyffredinol am gludo nwyddau, ar ôl cyfeirio yn gynharach at y Cymoedd. Nid wyf yn hollol siŵr fod y Llywodraeth yn gwybod i ble y mae’n mynd, oherwydd nododd y weinyddiaeth flaenorol dan Rhodri Morgan fod cludo nwyddau a’i dwf a’i ddatblygiad yn bethau pwysig iawn, felly rwy’n siomedig nad ydych ond yn derbyn argymhelliad 14 mewn egwyddor. Mae’n rhaid i mi ddweud, fel cyn Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol, nid wyf yn hoff iawn o Lywodraethau pan fyddant yn derbyn ‘mewn egwyddor’ oherwydd nid ydych yn gwybod beth y mae hynny’n ei olygu mewn gwirionedd, ydych chi, ar wahân i ryw fath o gefnogaeth lastwraidd nad yw’n mynd â chi’n bell iawn? Ond mae ymateb Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn dangos bod y galw am gludo nwyddau wedi lleihau yn ddiweddar oherwydd cau gweithfeydd glo brig mewn rhai ardaloedd. Ond yn flaenorol, nododd y Llywodraeth y potensial ar gyfer cynyddu cludo nwyddau mewn meysydd fel cynwysyddion morol, ac rwy’n ofni efallai eu bod yn colli golwg ar hynny yn awr.

Mae’r adroddiad yn dweud bod bwriadau’r Llywodraeth ar raddfa arwrol ac nid wyf yn credu y dylem eu beirniadu am hynny, ond mae angen i ni sicrhau bod y monitro a’r craffu yn effeithiol, fel bod rhai o’r dyheadau hyn yn cael eu gwireddu. Ond rwy’n llongyfarch fy nghyd-Aelod Russell George ac aelodau ei bwyllgor ar waith da drwyddo draw. Rwy’n credu y bydd yr adroddiad hwn yn ein rhoi mewn sefyllfa dda i fonitro perfformiad y Llywodraeth yn y dyfodol.

I’m not sure in what level of detail Dai Lloyd was able to read the committee report, but I suggest it might bear re-reading, because it represents a much fairer balance of the issues than he found himself able to represent in his speech.

The rail franchise is an example of the tortured transition in which we find rail devolution: a franchise where the powers are held in Westminster, but are exercised by Welsh Ministers, where the Welsh Government has pumped in millions of its own resources to plug gaps in funding for a franchise that isn’t even devolved, and where rolling stock is falling apart because the Welsh Government doesn’t have the power, and the UK Government doesn’t have the inclination, to order better stock in a timely fashion.

We’re approaching a situation now where the franchise is being let despite of, not because of the UK Government, in my view. Nowhere was this clearer than in the evidence of the Department for Transport to the committee, which suggested to me that the UK Government had all but washed its hands of responsibility for the franchise, whilst, at the same time, dragging its heels on devolving the powers to the Welsh Government. That is the absolute antithesis of good government and transparent administration. And so the rail franchise runs the risk of being trapped in the first circle of Dante’s hell, which the First Minister spoke to the Labour conference about, which is a state of limbo.

Powers should’ve been devolved in January of this year. We now hope that they’ll be devolved by the end of this year, but as we heard in the committee this morning, that may not even be the case by the time the franchise is let. All the Department for Transport officials could say, when they came in front of the committee, was that the franchise could be delivered in time with a fair wind. But, far from a fair wind, we’ve seen storm clouds gathering over the summer months, as the devolution of powers was linked to yet another financial dispute, this time over track access charges, which could adversely impact the Welsh Government to the tune of £1 billion. As Hefin David has already mentioned, the 2014 agreement between the UK Government and the Welsh Government confirmed that the block grant would not be cut, which is, in effect, what the UK Government is now planning. As we are in the midst of Brexit, we are used to being told repeatedly that this is a UK Government that meets its obligations to the European Union. Well, it’s now time for it to meet its obligations to Wales.

We’ve already seen, as the report lays out, the question mark that arose over the UK Government’s commitment of £125 million to the Valleys lines electrification and we know what’s happened in relation to the promise of electrification west of Cardiff. This situation is compounded by the persisting limitation caused by the failure to repeal the Railways Act 1993 in Wales, which, in truth, frustrates the Welsh Government’s scale of ambition in introducing a genuinely not-for-profit operation across all aspects of the franchise in Wales. This was dispensed with by the UK Parliament in relation to Scotland; it should’ve been and needs to be in relation to Wales as well. I agree with the Welsh Government, with our rail unions, the Co-operative Party and others in this Chamber that we need a genuine not-for-profit solution across all aspects of the franchise. I’d like to hear from the Welsh Government that it plans to continue pressing for the repeal of that provision in the Railways Act and what it will do during the lifetime of this franchise if it succeeds in that aim. I’d also like to encourage social enterprises and co-operatives to engage with the procurement of the range of ancillary services that will need to be in place when the franchise has been let.

We all look forward to a better, more passenger-focused franchise for the next 15 years than we have seen in the current franchise, and we want to see the metro come to fruition quickly. We call it ‘the south Wales metro’, but let’s not make the mistake of believing it solves the transport needs of all of south Wales. It’s, in truth, the south-east Wales metro. It’s no less important for that, but the real prize here is to see this as the beginning of an integrated rail and bus service that allows our citizens to travel from Monmouth in the east to Hirwaun, down the beautiful Vale of Neath to the mainline station at Neath, and on to a Swansea bay region integrated transport west to Mumbles, Llanelli, and beyond.

Nid wyf yn siŵr ar ba lefel o fanylder y gallodd Dai Lloyd ddarllen adroddiad y pwyllgor, ond rwy’n awgrymu y gallai fod yn werth ei ail-ddarllen, gan ei fod yn dangos cydbwysedd llawer tecach o’r materion nag y llwyddodd i’w cyfleu yn ei araith.

Mae’r fasnachfraint reilffyrdd yn enghraifft o’r modd y mae datganoli rheilffyrdd yn dioddef trawsnewid poenus: masnachfraint lle y mae’r pwerau’n cael eu cadw yn San Steffan, ond yn cael eu harfer gan Weinidogion Cymru, lle y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi arllwys miliynau o’i hadnoddau ei hun i lenwi bylchau yn y cyllid ar gyfer masnachfraint nad yw wedi cael ei datganoli hyd yn oed, a lle y mae cerbydau’n cwympo’n ddarnau am nad oes gan Lywodraeth Cymru bŵer, ac am nad oes gan Lywodraeth y DU awydd, i archebu cerbydau gwell mewn modd amserol.

Rydym yn agosáu at sefyllfa yn awr lle y mae’r fasnachfraint yn cael ei gosod er gwaethaf, nid oherwydd, Llywodraeth y DU, yn fy marn i. Roedd hyn ar ei gliriaf yn nhystiolaeth yr Adran Drafnidiaeth i’r pwyllgor, ac roedd yn awgrymu i mi fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi troi ei chefn ar y cyfrifoldeb dros y fasnachfraint, tra’i bod, ar yr un pryd, yn llusgo’i sodlau ar ddatganoli’r pwerau i Lywodraeth Cymru. Dyna’n hollol yw gwrthwyneb llywodraethu da a gweinyddiaeth dryloyw. Ac felly mae’r fasnachfraint reilffyrdd mewn perygl o gael ei dal yng nghylch cyntaf uffern Dante, y soniodd y Prif Weinidog amdano yng nghynhadledd y Blaid Lafur, sef limbo.

Dylai pwerau fod wedi cael eu datganoli ym mis Ionawr eleni. Rydym yn awr yn gobeithio y byddant yn cael eu datganoli erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn hon, ond fel y clywsom yn y pwyllgor y bore yma, efallai na fydd hynny’n wir erbyn i’r fasnachfraint gael ei gosod hyd yn oed. Y cyfan roedd swyddogion yr Adran Drafnidiaeth yn gallu ei ddweud, pan ddaethant gerbron y pwyllgor, oedd y gellid cyflwyno’r fasnachfraint mewn pryd gyda’r gwynt yn deg. Ond ymhell o fod yn wynt teg, rydym wedi gweld cymylau storm yn casglu dros fisoedd yr haf, wrth i ddatganoli pwerau gael ei gysylltu ag anghydfod ariannol arall eto fyth, y tro hwn dros daliadau mynediad i’r trac, a allai gael effaith andwyol, o hyd at £1 biliwn, ar Lywodraeth Cymru. Fel y mae Hefin David wedi’i grybwyll eisoes, cadarnhaodd y cytundeb yn 2014 rhwng Llywodraeth y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru na fuasai’r grant bloc yn cael ei dorri, sef, i bob pwrpas, yr hyn y mae Llywodraeth y DU yn awr yn ei gynllunio. Gan ein bod yng nghanol Brexit, rydym wedi arfer clywed dro ar ôl tro mai Llywodraeth yw hon yn y DU sy’n cyflawni ei rhwymedigaethau i’r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Wel, mae’n bryd yn awr iddi gyflawni ei rhwymedigaethau i Gymru.

Fel y mae’r adroddiad yn ei nodi, rydym eisoes wedi gweld y marc cwestiwn uwchben ymrwymiad Llywodraeth y DU i roi £125 miliwn i drydaneiddio rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd a gwyddom beth sydd wedi digwydd mewn perthynas â’r addewid o drydaneiddio i’r gorllewin o Gaerdydd. Cymhlethir y sefyllfa hon gan y cyfyngiad parhaus a achoswyd gan y methiant i ddiddymu Deddf Rheilffyrdd 1993 yng Nghymru, sydd, mewn gwirionedd, yn cyfyngu ar faint uchelgais Llywodraeth Cymru i gyflwyno gweithrediad gwirioneddol ddielw ar draws pob agwedd ar y fasnachfraint yng Nghymru. Cafodd hyn ei hepgor gan Senedd y DU mewn perthynas â’r Alban; dylai fod wedi ei hepgor, ac mae angen ei hepgor, mewn perthynas â Chymru yn ogystal. Rwy’n cytuno â Llywodraeth Cymru, â’n hundebau rheilffyrdd, y Blaid Gydweithredol ac eraill yn y Siambr hon ein bod angen ateb gwirioneddol ddielw ar draws pob agwedd ar y fasnachfraint. Hoffwn glywed gan Lywodraeth Cymru ei bod yn bwriadu parhau i bwyso am ddiddymu’r ddarpariaeth honno yn y Ddeddf Rheilffyrdd a beth y bydd yn ei wneud yn ystod oes y fasnachfraint hon os yw’n llwyddo i gyflawni’r nod hwnnw. Hefyd hoffwn annog mentrau cymdeithasol a chwmnïau cydweithredol i ymgysylltu â chaffael yr ystod o wasanaethau ategol y bydd angen iddynt fod ar waith ar ôl gosod y fasnachfraint.

Mae pawb ohonom yn edrych ymlaen at fasnachfraint well sy’n canolbwyntio mwy ar y teithiwr dros y 15 mlynedd nesaf yn hytrach na’r hyn a welsom yn y fasnachfraint bresennol, ac rydym am weld y metro’n dwyn ffrwyth yn gyflym. Rydym yn ei alw’n ‘metro de Cymru’, ond gadewch i ni beidio â gwneud y camgymeriad o gredu ei fod yn datrys anghenion trafnidiaeth de Cymru i gyd. Mewn gwirionedd, metro de-ddwyrain Cymru ydyw. Nid yw’n llai pwysig oherwydd hynny, ond y wobr go iawn yma yw gweld hwn fel dechrau gwasanaeth trên a bws integredig sy’n galluogi ein dinasyddion i deithio o Drefynwy yn y dwyrain i Hirwaun, i lawr drwy ardal hardd Cwm Nedd i’r brif orsaf yng Nghastell-nedd, ac ymlaen i ranbarth trafnidiaeth integredig bae Abertawe i’r gorllewin i’r Mwmbwls, Llanelli, a thu hwnt.

Can I thank the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee for the report? And, in doing so, I’d like to support the importance of the metro network as a whole and the related investment in my own constituency. It’s on that particular point that I’m going to confine my more generalised comments, rather than the more specific comments on the franchise as a whole.

Both Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney valleys have rail lines connecting them to Cardiff and the wider rail network, and both of these lines have seen new investment, for example in new stations, platforms and signalling, but the frequency of those trains remains an issue. For example, Merthyr is less than 25 miles from Cardiff, but the journey time of over an hour is not a pleasant experience in a dirty, overcrowded train. That’s the kind of thing that needs attention if we are to encourage more people onto the trains to help reduce the use of cars around our capital and to make all travel more sustainable, and indeed encourage people to travel in the other direction from Cardiff and all other points in between.

Similarly, the Rhymney valley line: again, we’ve seen investment in that route, as Hefin referred to earlier, but journey times clearly need attention. And, as Jeremy Miles has said, the metro is not just about trains. The other aspect that requires our attention is the importance of local bus services. These are often the vital lifeblood that help people to move around local communities, and I note that these matters weren’t directly addressed as part of the report, but they will be an important part of providing better connections as part of the whole metro package.

In this age of flexible working and people holding jobs in different locations, we could usefully think about how we provide a network of bus services that better meets local needs. For example, it can be difficult, if not impossible, to get services around some parts of Merthyr after the traditional working hours of 5.30 p.m., and, if we are to give people who don’t have their own transport access to work opportunities, or, as Jenny Rathbone was saying earlier on, encourage them out of their cars, if they have them, that needs to be improved, and more flexible travel arrangements provided as the metro network evolves.

I also think we need to be careful that we don’t end up with people perceiving the south Wales metro as just new trams serving Cardiff Bay, but then missing out on the vital investment elsewhere. But, like all of our committee reports, we’re also hostages to events, and, again, Jeremy Miles and David Melding have already remarked on this, that, when this report was published in July, the concerns being expressed over the electrification project have since become a hard reality, and we can now see, unfortunately, another broken Tory promise to the people of Wales.

So, I just want to thank again the committee for the report, and to hope the Assembly accepts the recommendations, and that we ensure that the Welsh Government remains firm about its investment plans and the needs of the whole transport network across south-east Wales.

A gaf fi ddiolch i Bwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau am yr adroddiad? Ac wrth wneud hynny, hoffwn gefnogi pwysigrwydd y rhwydwaith metro yn ei gyfanrwydd a’r buddsoddiad cysylltiedig yn fy etholaeth fy hun. Rwyf am gyfyngu fy sylwadau mwy cyffredinol i’r pwynt penodol hwnnw, yn hytrach na rhoi sylwadau mwy penodol ar y fasnachfraint yn ei chyfanrwydd.

Mae gan gymoedd Merthyr Tudful a Rhymni reilffyrdd sy’n eu cysylltu â Chaerdydd a’r rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd ehangach, ac mae’r ddwy reilffordd wedi gweld buddsoddiad newydd, er enghraifft mewn gorsafoedd, platfformau a signalau newydd, ond mae amlder y trenau hynny yn parhau i fod yn broblem. Er enghraifft, mae llai na 25 milltir rhwng Merthyr a Chaerdydd, ond nid yw’r amser teithio o dros awr yn brofiad pleserus mewn trên budr, gorlawn. Dyna’r math o beth sydd angen sylw os ydym am annog mwy o bobl i ddod ar y trenau er mwyn helpu i leihau’r defnydd o geir o amgylch ein prifddinas ac i wneud pob math o deithio yn fwy cynaliadwy, ac yn wir, annog pobl i deithio i’r cyfeiriad arall o Gaerdydd a phob man arall yn y canol.

Yn yr un modd, rheilffordd cwm Rhymni: unwaith eto, rydym wedi gweld buddsoddi yn y llwybr hwnnw, fel y nododd Hefin yn gynharach, ond mae’n amlwg fod angen rhoi sylw i hyd teithiau. Ac fel y mae Jeremy Miles wedi’i ddweud, nid yw’r metro yn ymwneud yn unig â threnau. Yr agwedd arall sydd angen ein sylw yw pwysigrwydd gwasanaethau bws lleol. Y rhain yn aml yw’r rhydwelïau hanfodol sy’n helpu pobl i symud o gwmpas cymunedau lleol, ac rwy’n nodi na chafodd y materion hyn sylw uniongyrchol yn rhan o’r adroddiad, ond byddant yn rhan bwysig o ddarparu cysylltiadau gwell fel rhan o’r pecyn metro cyfan.

Yn yr oes hon o weithio hyblyg a phobl â swyddi mewn gwahanol leoliadau, gallai fod yn ddefnyddiol inni feddwl sut y gallwn ddarparu rhwydwaith o wasanaethau bws sy’n diwallu anghenion lleol yn well. Er enghraifft, gall fod yn anodd, os nad yn amhosibl, cael gwasanaethau o amgylch rhai rhannau o Ferthyr wedi’r oriau gwaith traddodiadol ar ôl 5.30 p.m. ac os ydym am wneud cyfleoedd gwaith yn hygyrch i bobl nad oes ganddynt eu cludiant eu hunain, neu, fel y dywedodd Jenny Rathbone yn gynharach, eu hannog i adael eu ceir os oes ganddynt rai, mae angen gwella hynny, a darparu trefniadau teithio mwy hyblyg wrth i’r rhwydwaith metro esblygu.

Rwy’n credu hefyd fod angen i ni fod yn ofalus nad oes gennym bobl yn dehongli metro de Cymru fel dim ond tramiau newydd i wasanaethu Bae Caerdydd, a cholli cyfle i fanteisio ar y buddsoddiad hanfodol mewn mannau eraill. Ond fel pob un o’n hadroddiadau pwyllgor, cawn ein cyfyngu gan ddigwyddiadau hefyd, ac unwaith eto, mae Jeremy Miles a David Melding eisoes wedi gwneud sylwadau ar hyn. Ers cyhoeddi’r adroddiad ym mis Gorffennaf, mae’r pryderon a fynegwyd ynddo ynglŷn â’r prosiect trydaneiddio wedi dod yn realiti creulon bellach, ac yn anffodus, gallwn weld addewid arall y mae’r Torïaid wedi’i dorri i bobl Cymru.

Felly, diolch unwaith eto i’r pwyllgor am yr adroddiad, a gobeithio y bydd y Cynulliad yn derbyn yr argymhellion, a’n bod yn sicrhau bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i fod yn gadarn ynglŷn â’i chynlluniau buddsoddi ac anghenion y rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth yn ei gyfanrwydd ar draws de-ddwyrain Cymru.

I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure, Ken Skates.

Galwaf ar Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros yr Economi a’r Seilwaith, Ken Skates.

Thank you, and thank you to all Members for your contributions today, and especially to members of the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee for their report and the very welcome scrutiny that the committee has given to this important matter. I’d also like to place on record my thanks in particular to the Chair of the committee, who I believe has led an excellent exercise in an entirely impartial and objective way.

Over the summer, I’ve been involved in complex and, at times, as you will have seen, controversial discussions with the Secretary of State for Transport. But my priority is securing a way forward that is in the best interests of the people of Wales. Now, firstly, I’d just like to briefly touch on where we have come from with the current franchise. Members have already identified the incredible growth in passenger numbers, up 60 per cent between 2003 and 2017. It’s a staggering fact that the Welsh Government, since 2011, has invested £200 million in the network, in spite of the fact that rail infrastructure remains non-devolved.

Looking forward, we need to ensure that our network can facilitate growth, and I do welcome your views within the report to help support me in achieving this. My ambition is to lay the foundation for a network of transport infrastructure across Wales, and especially within the metro area, that has the potential to deliver a step change in the way that we can use transport and, in the south Wales metro area, to develop a model that can act as a blueprint for elsewhere in Wales.

I agree with the committee’s 10 priorities for the procurement of the new Wales and borders rail service. These are reflected in our requirements for the next rail franchise and are included in the procurement specification and across the evaluation criteria.

I would like to briefly touch on a number of points that Members have raised this afternoon. Firstly, the contribution from Jenny Rathbone—I can assure you, Jenny, that the design of the metro will take place in a way that complies with the objectives of the well-being of future generations Act, especially as far as consultation with communities and with passengers is concerned, and in a way that promotes active travel and encourages modal change.

Mark Isherwood, you spoke about the need to reward risk. I’d heard that within the banking sector prior to the financial crash. It’s my view that the current franchise offers no demands for service improvements, as Vikki Howells has identified. Instead, our proposals will incentivise—

Diolch i chi, a diolch i’r holl Aelodau am eich cyfraniadau heddiw, ac yn arbennig i aelodau Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau am eu hadroddiad a’r gwaith craffu gwerthfawr iawn y mae’r pwyllgor wedi’i wneud ar y mater pwysig hwn. Hoffwn gofnodi fy niolch yn arbennig hefyd i Gadeirydd y pwyllgor y credaf ei fod wedi arwain gwaith ardderchog mewn ffordd hollol ddiduedd a gwrthrychol.

Dros yr haf, bûm yn rhan o drafodaethau cymhleth, a dadleuol ar adegau, fel y byddwch wedi gweld, gyda’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Drafnidiaeth. Ond fy mlaenoriaeth yw sicrhau ffordd ymlaen sydd er budd gorau pobl Cymru. Nawr, yn gyntaf, hoffwn grybwyll yn fyr o ble rydym wedi dod gyda’r fasnachfraint bresennol. Mae Aelodau eisoes wedi nodi’r twf anhygoel yn nifer y teithwyr, sydd wedi cynyddu 60 y cant rhwng 2003 a 2017. Mae’n ffaith syfrdanol fod Llywodraeth Cymru, ers 2011, wedi buddsoddi £200 miliwn yn y rhwydwaith, er gwaethaf y ffaith bod seilwaith rheilffyrdd yn parhau i fod yn faes nad yw wedi cael ei ddatganoli.

Wrth edrych ymlaen, mae angen i ni sicrhau y gall ein rhwydwaith hwyluso twf, ac rwy’n croesawu eich safbwyntiau yn yr adroddiad i fy nghynorthwyo i gyflawni hyn. Fy uchelgais yw gosod y sylfaen ar gyfer rhwydwaith o seilwaith trafnidiaeth ledled Cymru, ac yn enwedig yn ardal y metro, sydd â’r potensial i gyflawni newid sylweddol yn y ffordd y gallwn ddefnyddio trafnidiaeth, ac yn ardal metro de Cymru, i ddatblygu model a all weithredu fel glasbrint ar gyfer rhannau eraill o Gymru.

Rwy’n cytuno â 10 blaenoriaeth y pwyllgor ar gyfer caffael gwasanaeth rheilffordd newydd Cymru a’r gororau. Caiff y rhain eu hadlewyrchu yn ein gofynion ar gyfer y fasnachfraint reilffyrdd nesaf a’u cynnwys yn y fanyleb ar gyfer caffael ac ar draws y meini prawf gwerthuso.

Hoffwn sôn yn fyr am nifer o bwyntiau y mae’r Aelodau wedi’u codi y prynhawn yma. Yn gyntaf, cyfraniad Jenny Rathbone—gallaf eich sicrhau, Jenny, y bydd y metro’n cael ei gynllunio mewn modd sy’n cyd-fynd ag amcanion Deddf llesiant cenedlaethau’r dyfodol, yn enwedig o ran ymgynghori â chymunedau a theithwyr, ac mewn ffordd sy’n hyrwyddo teithio llesol ac yn annog newid moddol.

Mark Isherwood, fe siaradoch am yr angen i wobrwyo risg. Clywais hynny yn y sector bancio cyn y cwymp ariannol. Yn fy marn i, nid yw’r fasnachfraint bresennol yn cynnig unrhyw alwadau i wella gwasanaethau, fel y mae Vikki Howells wedi’i nodi. Yn lle hynny, bydd ein cynigion yn cymell—

Mark Isherwood a gododd—

Mark Isherwood rose—

Do you recognise that a number of not-for-profit mutual banks and building societies also crashed for the same reasons as some of the for-profit larger banks?

A ydych yn cydnabod bod nifer o fanciau a chymdeithasau adeiladu cydfuddiannol, dielw hefyd wedi methu am yr un rhesymau â rhai o’r banciau mwy o faint sy’n gwneud elw?

I do, but I would insist again that it was because of the risks that those larger banks, particularly on the other side of the Atlantic, were taking—that led to the financial crash, and we should learn from that. I doubt that many Members in this Chamber would support any approach that leads to an operator maximising profit at the expense of reinvesting that money in the Welsh network. So, our proposals instead will incentivise service enhancements, but there will also be a cap on profits so that we can reinvest excess profits back into public transport. I think that is exactly the right approach to take.

Jeremy Miles and Hefin David both responded accurately and fully and properly to the contribution of Dai Lloyd.

I'd like to now just touch on some good progress that we have made against the committee’s priorities. We’ve recently procured 20 additional train units. The lack of capacity on the network is one of the most frequently raised issues in my department. I’d like to pay tribute to a number of Members in this Chamber who regularly raise it on social media and with me directly, including Hefin David, who is a great champion for his constituents, regularly posting videos about the frustrations that his constituents have on the rail network. The 20 units will be commissioned for use from June 2018, providing additional resilience to the existing fleet of trains, but they will also open up the opportunity for us to enhance the existing fleet for persons of reduced mobility. These additional trains will provide the capacity that is required for us to make all trains accessible for persons of reduced mobility. I have committed to removing the old Pacer trains as a priority replacement procedure.

By undertaking wide-ranging engagement, by gathering public views on the policy priorities for the next franchise, we have been able to incorporate views expressed by the public transport users as a fundamental part of our thinking throughout the procurement process, and we fully intend to deliver on the public’s expectations. I am pleased to announce that, following the process of competitive dialogue, we will be issuing final tenders tomorrow, with the intent to find a preferred partner early next year.

A key issue referenced within the committee’s report is funding for the core Valleys lines. I have had a positive dialogue with the Secretary of State for Transport, and my officials are currently working with counterparts in the UK Government to agree the final details needed. Furthermore, I agree with the committee that we must secure a robust agreement regarding the transfer of ownership of Valleys lines. Initial headline terms have been developed between the Welsh Government, supported by Transport for Wales, and Network Rail. An agreement has been made to enable further and more detailed development work to be undertaken alongside the procurement process. I’d just like to—[Interruption.] Yes, of course.

Ydw, ond buaswn yn mynnu eto mai’r risgiau roedd y banciau mwy o faint, yn enwedig ar yr ochr arall i’r Iwerydd, yn eu cymryd a arweiniodd at y cwymp ariannol, a dylem ddysgu o hynny. Rwy’n amau y buasai llawer o Aelodau yn y Siambr hon yn cefnogi unrhyw ddull sy’n arwain at weithredwr yn gwneud cymaint â phosibl o elw ar draul ailfuddsoddi’r arian hwnnw yn y rhwydwaith yng Nghymru. Felly, yn lle hynny, bydd ein cynigion yn cymell gwelliannau yn y gwasanaeth, ond hefyd bydd cap ar elw er mwyn inni allu ailfuddsoddi elw dros ben yn ôl i mewn i drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Credaf mai dyna’r union ddull cywir i’w fabwysiadu.

Mae Jeremy Miles a Hefin David wedi ymateb yn fanwl gywir ac yn llawn ac yn briodol i gyfraniad Dai Lloyd.

Hoffwn gyffwrdd yn awr ar beth o’r cynnydd da a wnaethom mewn perthynas â blaenoriaethau’r pwyllgor. Rydym wedi caffael 20 o unedau trên ychwanegol yn ddiweddar. Mae’r diffyg capasiti ar y rhwydwaith yn un o’r problemau sy’n cael eu codi amlaf yn fy adran. Hoffwn dalu teyrnged i nifer o’r Aelodau yn y Siambr hon sy’n rhoi sylw i hyn yn rheolaidd ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol ac yn ei ddwyn i fy sylw’n uniongyrchol, gan gynnwys Hefin David, sy’n eiriolwr gwych ar ran ei etholwyr, ac sy’n postio fideos rheolaidd ynglŷn â’r rhwystredigaethau y mae ei etholwyr yn eu hwynebu ar y rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd. Bydd yr 20 uned yn cael eu comisiynu ar gyfer eu defnyddio o fis Mehefin 2018 ymlaen gan roi cydnerthedd ychwanegol i’r fflyd bresennol o drenau, ond byddant hefyd yn creu cyfle i ni wella’r fflyd bresennol ar gyfer pobl â phroblemau symud. Bydd y trenau ychwanegol hyn yn darparu’r capasiti sydd ei angen arnom i wneud pob trên yn hygyrch ar gyfer pobl â phroblemau symud. Rwyf wedi ymrwymo i gael gwared ar yr hen drenau Pacer fel gweithdrefn adnewyddu â blaenoriaeth.

Drwy ymgysylltu’n eang, drwy gasglu safbwyntiau’r cyhoedd ynglŷn â’r blaenoriaethau polisi ar gyfer y fasnachfraint nesaf, rydym wedi gallu ymgorffori sylwadau a fynegwyd gan ddefnyddwyr trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus fel rhan sylfaenol o’n ffordd o feddwl drwy gydol y broses gaffael, ac rydym yn llwyr fwriadu cyflawni ar ddisgwyliadau’r cyhoedd. Rwy’n falch o gyhoeddi, yn dilyn proses y ddeialog gystadleuol, y byddwn yn cyhoeddi tendrau terfynol yfory, gyda’r bwriad o ddod o hyd i bartner a ffefrir yn gynnar y flwyddyn nesaf.

Un mater allweddol y cyfeiriwyd ato yn adroddiad y pwyllgor yw cyllid ar gyfer cledrau craidd y Cymoedd. Rwyf wedi cael deialog gadarnhaol gyda’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Drafnidiaeth, ac mae fy swyddogion yn gweithio gyda chymheiriaid yn Llywodraeth y DU ar hyn o bryd i gytuno ar y manylion terfynol sydd eu hangen. Ar ben hynny, rwy’n cytuno â’r pwyllgor fod yn rhaid i ni sicrhau cytundeb cadarn mewn perthynas â throsglwyddo perchnogaeth rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd. Datblygwyd prif delerau cychwynnol rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru, gyda chefnogaeth Trafnidiaeth Cymru, a Network Rail. Ffurfiwyd cytundeb i allu gwneud gwaith datblygu pellach a mwy manwl ochr yn ochr â’r broses gaffael. Hoffwn—[Torri ar draws.] Iawn, wrth gwrs.

Thank you for giving way, Cabinet Secretary. You’ll probably recall that yesterday, in the business statement, I raised the issue of the rolling stock. I know it’s secondary to the core of this report, but would you agree with me that it’s important, at the earliest opportunity, for the Welsh Government to engage with the franchise, with the new franchise holder, to make sure that that rolling stock—new rolling stock—is brought on stream as quickly as possible, so that the Welsh public get the full benefits from the new franchise?

Diolch i chi am ildio, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Mae’n siŵr y byddwch yn cofio fy mod wedi codi mater y cerbydau yn y datganiad busnes ddoe. Gwn ei fod yn eilradd i graidd yr adroddiad hwn, ond a fuasech yn cytuno ei bod yn bwysig, ar y cyfle cyntaf, i Lywodraeth Cymru ymgysylltu â’r fasnachfraint, â deiliad newydd y fasnachfraint, er mwyn sicrhau bod y cerbydau hynny—cerbydau newydd—yn cael eu cyflwyno cyn gynted ag y bo modd, fel bod y cyhoedd yng Nghymru yn cael manteision llawn y fasnachfraint newydd?

I would agree entirely that the Welsh public would expect nothing less of us, and that will certainly happen. I’d just like to also address a number of points raised by Vikki Howells, Dawn Bowden and David Melding, and also Jeremy Miles. Both Vikki Howells and Dawn Bowden raised the important point that the metro must be a piece of infrastructure, a public service, that spreads wealth-creating opportunities across all communities. It is a multimodal service, and will comprise more than just rail services. Where rail services are unable to reach, we anticipate new bus services to be able to carry passengers to and from services and to and from places of work. And, further, through reforms to local bus services, we would aim to improve the delivery and the accountability of bus service managers to the communities that they serve.

David Melding raised the point that many of our railways across Wales, and indeed the UK, were designed for freight, especially the movement of industrial goods to ports, and also munitions to and from factories at times of war. We have an ongoing programme of liaison with businesses, such as Tesco and Aldi, as well as with freight operators, to discuss the modal shift opportunities and how we can help, including the potential for public subsidy.

However, there are major challenges in persuading the market to shift to rail generally, and specifically to Wales, because of the relative lack of critical mass, even in south-east Wales. That said, accommodating existing freight needs and future growth in freight is an integral part of the procurement process for the next franchise, including metro.

Jeremy Miles and Hefin David made important contributions, offered a fair, accurate, and objective analysis of the frustrations that we have encountered over recent months, and also identified the need for us to have the powers that we’ve been pressing for and will continue to press for. Should we be successful, in particular in seeing the repeal of section 25 of the Railways Act, as has been the case in Scotland, we would take steps to ensure that future franchises are developed on a not-for-profit model. Whilst I recognise the obstacles and the risks that need to be overcome to achieve my ambitions, it’s important to appraise the benefits that vertical integration of the core Valleys lines can provide. It opens a range of long-term opportunities for us to develop a railway that meets the needs of passengers and provides important links between communities and connectivity to employment opportunities.

So, while reflecting back on the hard work that has been done to date, there is more work to be undertaken if we are to realise our heroic ambition. This is the largest procurement exercise the Welsh Government has undertaken, and I realise the challenges this brings, including the complex negotiations that remain, but I hope that I can rely on your continued support in delivering a vastly improved transport system that will benefit every citizen in Wales.

Buaswn yn cytuno’n llwyr na fyddai’r cyhoedd yng Nghymru yn disgwyl llai gennym, a bydd hynny’n sicr yn digwydd. Hoffwn fynd i’r afael â nifer o bwyntiau a gododd Vikki Howells, Dawn Bowden a David Melding, a Jeremy Miles hefyd. Cododd Vikki Howells a Dawn Bowden y pwynt pwysig fod yn rhaid i’r metro fod yn seilwaith, yn wasanaeth cyhoeddus, sy’n lledaenu cyfleoedd ar gyfer creu cyfoeth ar draws yr holl gymunedau. Mae’n wasanaeth amlfoddol, a bydd yn cynnwys mwy na gwasanaethau rheilffordd yn unig. Lle nad yw gwasanaethau rheilffordd yn gallu cyrraedd, rydym yn disgwyl y bydd gwasanaethau bws newydd yn gallu cludo teithwyr at wasanaethau ac oddi wrthynt ac i fannau gwaith ac ohonynt. Ymhellach, trwy ddiwygio gwasanaethau bws lleol, buasem yn anelu i wella darpariaeth ac atebolrwydd rheolwyr gwasanaethau bws i’r cymunedau y maent yn eu gwasanaethu.

Cododd David Melding y pwynt fod llawer o’n rheilffyrdd ledled Cymru, ac yn wir y DU, wedi’u cynllunio ar gyfer cludo nwyddau, yn enwedig symud nwyddau diwydiannol i borthladdoedd, ac arfau i ac o ffatrïoedd yn ystod rhyfeloedd hefyd. Mae gennym raglen gyswllt barhaus â busnesau, megis Tesco ac Aldi, yn ogystal â gweithredwyr cludo nwyddau, i drafod y cyfleoedd newid moddol a sut y gallwn helpu, gan gynnwys y potensial ar gyfer cymhorthdal cyhoeddus.

Fodd bynnag, ceir heriau mawr wrth geisio perswadio’r farchnad i newid i ddefnyddio’r rheilffyrdd yn gyffredinol, ac yn benodol yng Nghymru, oherwydd y diffyg cymharol o fàs critigol, hyd yn oed yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru. Wedi dweud hynny, mae darparu ar gyfer anghenion cludo nwyddau presennol a thwf mewn cludo nwyddau yn y dyfodol yn rhan annatod o’r broses gaffael ar gyfer y fasnachfraint nesaf, gan gynnwys metro.

Gwnaeth Jeremy Miles a Hefin David gyfraniadau pwysig a chynnig dadansoddiad teg, cywir, a gwrthrychol o’r rhwystredigaethau a wynebwyd gennym yn ystod y misoedd diwethaf, gan nodi’r angen hefyd inni gael y pwerau y buom yn pwyso amdanynt ac y byddwn yn parhau i bwyso amdanynt. Os byddwn yn llwyddiannus, yn enwedig parthed diddymu adran 25 o’r Ddeddf Rheilffyrdd, fel sydd wedi digwydd yn yr Alban, buasem yn cymryd camau i sicrhau bod masnachfreintiau yn y dyfodol yn cael eu datblygu ar fodel dielw. Er fy mod yn cydnabod y rhwystrau a’r risgiau y mae angen eu goresgyn i gyflawni fy uchelgeisiau, mae’n bwysig gwerthuso’r manteision y gall integreiddio cledrau craidd y Cymoedd yn fertigol eu darparu. Mae’n cynnig ystod o gyfleoedd hirdymor i ni ddatblygu rheilffordd sy’n diwallu anghenion teithwyr ac yn darparu cysylltiadau pwysig rhwng cymunedau a chysylltedd â chyfleoedd cyflogaeth.

Felly, wrth ystyried y gwaith caled a wnaed hyd yn hyn, mae mwy o waith i’w gyflawni os ydym am wireddu ein huchelgais arwrol. Hwn yw’r ymarfer caffael mwyaf y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi’i gynnal, ac rwy’n ymwybodol o’r heriau y mae’n eu creu, gan gynnwys y trafodaethau cymhleth sy’n parhau, ond rwy’n gobeithio y gallaf ddibynnu ar eich cefnogaeth barhaus i gyflwyno system drafnidiaeth lawer gwell a fydd o fudd i bob dinesydd yng Nghymru.

I now call on Russell George to reply to the debate.

Galwaf yn awr ar Russell George i ymateb i’r ddadl.

Thank you, acting Presiding Officer. Can I thank the Members who have taken part in this debate this afternoon? To pick up on a few points myself, Jenny Rathbone made some points about public involvement, and the committee really agreed that the competitive dialogue process did make it very difficult for public engagement and involvement. This was certainly noted. We’re pleased that the Government accepted our recommendation to produce a user-friendly specification, but still the concerns remain about public involvement in a competitive dialogue process, which is perhaps a lesson to be learnt.

Now, the Cabinet Secretary—I thank him for his comments about my being fair and objective as Chair of the committee. I don’t intend to get drawn into party political matters in my contribution this afternoon, but I would agree that I am disappointed, as others are disappointed this afternoon, that there has been that delay in the devolution of powers, and I hope that those issues will be resolved.

Hefin David made some points about track access charges, and I would agree with Hefin to a point—with his view that something has changed. My view is that there’s some missing information that our committee is not aware of. There are some gaps in the story, and those are yet to be revealed, and that’s potentially a future piece of work for us to do. In fact, I am very pleased that the Welsh Affairs Select Committee will be undertaking an inquiry, which may well draw out some of those missing gaps that we’ve talked about today. I hope that our committee can have some involvement with that piece of work in some way as well, and I’ll certainly be writing some letters in regards to working across those two committees.

I should also say that I have also written as the Chair of the committee to the Secretary of State, Chris Grayling, and asked him to appear before our committee. Certainly as a committee we’re more than happy to accommodate him on our timetable; we will move our timetable to accommodate him. Also, I would say, I am pleased that, since that public correspondence between the Secretary of State Chris Grayling and Ken Skates over the summer, where there appeared to be a lot of contention in those public letters, it seems to me that there has been a positive move forward in recent weeks. And, in fact, the fact that the Cabinet Secretary has announced today that the tenders will be issued tomorrow, which is a new piece of information that he’s relayed to us this afternoon—I think that demonstrates in itself that there’s been a lot of goodwill and working, and a goodwill gesture, between both Governments in recent days and weeks.

I think it’s also right that I do thank a few people as well. I certainly thank our 3,000 contributors to our survey, and to let them know that their involvement in our survey influenced our work and our recommendations. I should also like to thank all those who gave oral evidence. There was a large amount of people who gave written evidence, which takes a great deal of time, so I would like to thank them. We did hold a number of stakeholder events—and particularly the people who helped us in organising and accommodating the right people for those events; I would like to thank those particular people.

I’d also like to thank our clerking team, and the wider integrated team, and also the great resource we have in the Research Service. We had some real, real complex issues that particularly the members of the Research Service have really managed to support us on as a committee, and it’s clear that, without them, we would not have the report today. I’d also thank again those who have taken part in this debate today. I’d also like to thank the Cabinet Secretary for allowing his officials to give us some technical briefings, which was a great help to us as a committee.

A lot has happened since we produced our report. It’s one of those reports that has perhaps quickly gone out of date, to an extent. And the Cabinet Secretary and his team are, of course, very aware that there is a lot more that needs to happen in the weeks and months to come. But, as it stands at the moment, we have a once-in-a-generation opportunity for a new chapter in public transport in Wales and the borders. I hope our report has shed some light on the process, highlighted the priorities of passengers, and provided a challenge to move things forward. Passengers deserve nothing less.

Diolch i chi, Llywydd dros dro. A gaf fi ddiolch i’r Aelodau sydd wedi cymryd rhan yn y ddadl y prynhawn yma? I dynnu sylw at ychydig o bwyntiau fy hun, gwnaeth Jenny Rathbone rai pwyntiau am gynnwys y cyhoedd, ac roedd y pwyllgor yn cytuno’n bendant fod proses y ddeialog gystadleuol yn ei gwneud hi’n anodd i’r cyhoedd ymgysylltu a chyfranogi. Cafodd hyn ei nodi yn sicr. Rydym yn falch fod y Llywodraeth wedi derbyn ein hargymhelliad i gynhyrchu manyleb hawdd i’w defnyddio, ond mae’r pryderon ynghylch cyfranogiad y cyhoedd ym mhroses y ddeialog gystadleuol yn parhau, ac mae hynny, efallai, yn wers i’w dysgu.

Nawr, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet—rwy’n diolch iddo am ei sylwadau fy mod yn deg ac yn wrthrychol fel Cadeirydd y pwyllgor. Nid wyf yn bwriadu cael fy nhynnu i mewn i faterion gwleidyddiaeth plaid yn fy nghyfraniad y prynhawn yma, ond buaswn yn cytuno fy mod yn siomedig, fel y mae eraill yn siomedig y prynhawn yma, ynglŷn â’r oedi a fu yn y broses o ddatganoli pwerau, ac rwy’n gobeithio y bydd y materion hynny’n cael eu datrys.

Cododd Hefin David rai pwyntiau ynglŷn â thaliadau mynediad i’r trac, a buaswn yn cytuno â Hefin i ryw raddau—gyda’i farn fod rhywbeth wedi newid. Fy marn i yw bod rhywfaint o wybodaeth ar goll nad yw ein pwyllgor yn ymwybodol ohoni. Mae bylchau yn y stori, ac mae’r rheini eto i’w datgelu, ac mae hwnnw, o bosibl, yn waith i ni ei wneud yn y dyfodol. Yn wir, rwy’n falch iawn y bydd y Pwyllgor Dethol ar Faterion Cymreig yn cynnal ymchwiliad, a allai’n hawdd lenwi rhai o’r bylchau rydym wedi’u crybwyll heddiw. Rwy’n gobeithio y gall ein pwyllgor chwarae rhywfaint o ran yn y gwaith hwnnw mewn rhyw ffordd hefyd, a byddaf yn sicr yn ysgrifennu llythyrau mewn perthynas â gwaith ar draws y ddau bwyllgor.

Dylwn ddweud fy mod i hefyd wedi ysgrifennu fel Cadeirydd y pwyllgor at yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, Chris Grayling, i ofyn iddo ymddangos gerbron ein pwyllgor. Yn sicr, fel pwyllgor rydym yn fwy na bodlon i’w gynnwys yn ein hamserlen; fe addaswn ein hamserlen i’w gynnwys. Hefyd, buaswn yn dweud fy mod yn falch, ers yr ohebiaeth gyhoeddus rhwng yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, Chris Grayling a Ken Skates dros yr haf, lle roedd hi’n ymddangos bod llawer o gynnen yn y llythyrau cyhoeddus hynny, ymddengys i mi fod cam cadarnhaol ymlaen wedi bod yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf. Ac yn wir, y ffaith bod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi cyhoeddi heddiw y bydd y tendrau’n cael eu cyhoeddi yfory, sy’n wybodaeth newydd a roddodd i ni y prynhawn yma—rwy’n credu bod hynny ynddo’i hun yn dangos bod yna lawer o ewyllys da a gwaith wedi bod, ac arwydd o ewyllys da rhwng y ddwy Lywodraeth yn y dyddiau a’r wythnosau diwethaf.

Credaf ei bod hi’n iawn i mi ddiolch i ychydig o bobl hefyd. Rwy’n sicr yn diolch i’r 3,000 a gyfranodd i’n harolwg, ac yn rhoi gwybod iddynt fod eu cyfranogiad yn ein harolwg wedi dylanwadu ar ein gwaith a’n hargymhellion. Hoffwn ddiolch i bawb a roddodd dystiolaeth lafar hefyd. Roedd yna lawer iawn o bobl a roddodd dystiolaeth ysgrifenedig, sy’n cymryd llawer iawn o amser, felly hoffwn ddiolch iddynt hwy. Cynhaliwyd nifer o ddigwyddiadau rhanddeiliaid—ac yn enwedig y bobl a’n cynorthwyodd i drefnu digwyddiadau a chynnwys y bobl iawn yn y digwyddiadau hynny; hoffwn ddiolch i’r bobl hynny.

Hoffwn ddiolch hefyd i’n tîm clercio, a’r tîm integredig ehangach, a hefyd yr adnodd gwych sydd gennym yn y Gwasanaeth Ymchwil. Cawsom rai problemau cymhleth iawn a llwyddodd aelodau o’r Gwasanaeth Ymchwil, yn arbennig, i’n cynorthwyo ni fel pwyllgor gyda hwy, ac mae’n amlwg na fuasai gennym adroddiad heddiw hebddynt. Hoffwn ddiolch eto hefyd i’r rhai a gymerodd ran yn y ddadl hon heddiw. Hefyd, hoffwn ddiolch i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet am ganiatáu i’w swyddogion roi sesiynau briffio technegol i ni, a oedd yn gymorth mawr i ni fel pwyllgor.

Mae llawer wedi digwydd ers i ni gynhyrchu ein hadroddiad. Mae’n un o’r adroddiadau hynny sydd, o bosibl, wedi dyddio’n gyflym i raddau. Ac mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet a’i dîm, wrth gwrs, yn ymwybodol iawn fod yna lawer mwy sydd angen digwydd yn ystod yr wythnosau a’r misoedd nesaf. Ond fel y mae ar hyn o bryd, mae gennym gyfle unwaith mewn cenhedlaeth i gychwyn pennod newydd ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Nghymru a’r gororau. Rwy’n gobeithio bod ein hadroddiad wedi taflu rhywfaint o oleuni ar y broses, wedi tynnu sylw at flaenoriaethau teithwyr, ac wedi darparu her i fwrw ymlaen â phethau. Nid yw’r teithwyr yn haeddu dim llai.

The proposal is to note the committee’s report. Does anybody object? The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Y cynnig yw nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor. A oes unrhyw un yn gwrthwynebu? Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

10. 9. Dadl ar Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Allanol a Deddfwriaeth Ychwanegol ar ei ‘Ymchwiliad i ddyfodol polisi rhanbarthol—beth nesaf i Gymru?’
10. 9. Debate on the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee's Report on their ‘Inquiry into the future of regional policy—what next for Wales?’

We move on now to item 9, the debate on the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee’s report, ‘Inquiry into the future of regional policy—what next for Wales?’ I therefore call on the Chair of the committee to move that motion, David Rees.

Symudwn ymlaen yn awr at eitem 9, y ddadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Allanol a Deddfwriaeth Ychwanegol, ‘Ymchwiliad i ddyfodol polisi rhanbarthol—beth nesaf i Gymru?’ Galwaf felly ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i gynnig y cynnig, David Rees.

Cynnig NDM6514 David Rees

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Allanol a Deddfwriaeth Ychwanegol ar ei 'Ymchwiliad i ddyfodol polisi rhanbarthol—beth nesaf i Gymru?' a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 22 Mehefin 2017.

Motion NDM6514 David Rees

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee on its ‘Inquiry into the future of regional policy—what next for Wales?’ which was laid in the Table Office on 22 June 2017.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Gadeirydd. It’s a privilege to move today’s motion and to bring forward this opportunity for the National Assembly to debate our report on the future of regional policy—where next for Wales. Before I go into the discussion on the report, I would like to express our thanks to the witnesses who came to the committee, to the clerking team, who provided the excellent support, particularly Nia Moss, who obviously is our link to the EU and who underpins everything we’re doing at the moment, but also to Members for their contributions through the whole report process.

Following the referendum decision to leave the EU, which was agreed on 23 June 2016, this Assembly charged the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee with the task of examining the implications for Wales of the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union, and to scrutinise the Welsh Government’s actions so that this Assembly can be assured that Welsh interests are safeguarded during that withdrawal process. Given that, every year, Wales receives £370 million from European structural and investment funds for the purpose of regional economic development, it was clear to us early on that we would need to look at these issues in more detail. And whilst we’re talking about regional policy, it’s important to remember that though the report does highlight regional policy, it cannot be delivered without the support of funding behind that being available. The loss of access to these funds could result in a funding black hole, possibly, for a number of investments in areas such as skills and apprenticeships, research collaboration and excellence, infrastructure and innovation. Indeed, we stand to lose more money than any other nation in the UK if European structural funds are not replaced.

Our inquiry found that on a per capita basis, the Welsh funding allocation from the EU was 458 per cent of the UK average. The next highest was Northern Ireland at 197 per cent, way behind Welsh needs. The principles that underpin the current system of support from the EU to the member states are based on fairness and need. Regions that have a per capita GDP of less than 75 per cent of the EU average qualify for the maximum level of support. And there are two areas in the UK that manage that—one is Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly, the other is west Wales and the Valleys. Cadeirydd, our report makes a total of 17 recommendations, and we are very pleased that the Cabinet Secretary has responded positively, and in detail, to them. This afternoon, I will only cover some of the recommendations and the Cabinet Secretary’s response in more detail, though every one of those recommendations is important for the future funding of our communities.

Diolch, Gadeirydd. Mae’n fraint cael cynnig y cynnig heddiw a chyflwyno’r cyfle hwn i’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol drafod ein hadroddiad ar ddyfodol polisi rhanbarthol—beth nesaf i Gymru. Cyn i mi ddechrau trafod yr adroddiad, hoffwn fynegi ein diolch i’r tystion a ddaeth i’r pwyllgor, i’r tîm clercio a ddarparodd y cymorth ardderchog, yn enwedig Nia Moss, ein cyswllt â’r UE wrth gwrs, ac sy’n sail i bopeth a wnawn ar hyn o bryd, ond hefyd i’r Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau drwy gydol y broses o lunio’r adroddiad.

Yn dilyn penderfyniad y refferendwm i adael yr UE, y cytunwyd arno ar 23 Mehefin 2016, cafodd y Pwyllgor Materion Allanol a Deddfwriaeth Ychwanegol y dasg gan y Cynulliad hwn o archwilio’r goblygiadau i Gymru yn sgil ymadawiad y DU â’r Undeb Ewropeaidd, a chraffu ar gamau gweithredu Llywodraeth Cymru fel y gall y Cynulliad fod yn sicr fod buddiannau Cymru yn cael eu diogelu yn ystod y broses o adael. O ystyried bod Cymru’n cael £370 miliwn o gronfeydd strwythurol a chronfeydd buddsoddi Ewropeaidd bob blwyddyn at ddibenion datblygu economaidd rhanbarthol, roedd yn amlwg i ni’n fuan y byddai angen i ni edrych ar y materion hyn yn fwy manwl. A chan ein bod yn sôn am bolisi rhanbarthol, mae’n bwysig cofio, er bod yr adroddiad yn tynnu sylw at bolisi rhanbarthol, ni ellir ei gyflawni heb fod cyllid ar gael i’w gefnogi. Gallai colli mynediad at y cronfeydd hyn arwain at dwll du ariannol, o bosibl, i nifer o fuddsoddiadau mewn meysydd megis sgiliau a phrentisiaethau, cydweithio ar ymchwil a rhagoriaeth, seilwaith ac arloesedd. Yn wir, rydym yn debygol o golli mwy o arian nag unrhyw wlad arall yn y DU os na cheir arian yn lle’r cronfeydd strwythurol Ewropeaidd.

Canfu ein hymchwiliad fod dyraniad cyllid Cymru o’r UE fesul y pen yn 458 y cant o gyfartaledd y DU. Y nesaf wedyn oedd Gogledd Iwerddon, ar 197 y cant, ymhell y tu ôl i anghenion Cymru. Mae’r egwyddorion sy’n sail i’r system bresennol o gymorth gan yr UE i aelod-wladwriaethau yn seiliedig ar degwch ac angen. Mae rhanbarthau sydd â chynnyrch domestig gros y pen o lai na 75 y cant o gyfartaledd yr UE yn gymwys ar gyfer y lefel uchaf o gymorth. Ac mae dwy ardal yn y DU yn cyrraedd hynny—un yw Cernyw ac Ynysoedd Scilly, y llall yw gorllewin Cymru a’r Cymoedd. Cadeirydd, mae ein hadroddiad yn gwneud cyfanswm o 17 o argymhellion, ac rydym yn falch iawn fod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi ymateb yn gadarnhaol ac yn fanwl iddynt. Y prynhawn yma, byddaf yn ymdrin â rhai o’r argymhellion ac ymateb Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn fanylach, er bod pob un o’r argymhellion hynny’n bwysig ar gyfer cyllido ein cymunedau yn y dyfodol.

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

Our first set of recommendations looked at the immediate challenges for the current funding round. Members will be aware that in autumn 2016, the Chancellor of the Exchequer guaranteed funding for projects until 2020, and we as a committee were unequivocal in our support for this. The picture is less certain, however, when it comes to threats posed by currency fluctuations post Brexit. Whilst it was heartening to hear that the Welsh Government, working with the Welsh European Funding Office, has been able to mitigate some of the risk posed by currency fluctuations, we believe it is incumbent upon the Welsh Government to ensure that the risks posed by this are constantly monitored and assessed, as we already know that currency goes up and down quite easily, and is, at the moment, down.

During our inquiry we looked at the case for a new regional policy after Brexit. The available data paints a sobering picture and shows us that the United Kingdom is the most unequal country in the European Union. We believe that the case for a future regional policy for Wales, with funding made available to us on the basis of objective need, is unequivocal. One of the many areas that we all agreed upon is that Wales should not be any worse off as a consequence of leaving the European Union than we would have been if we had remained in the EU. However, the big question is: how do we achieve that? Not only should those who were on the ‘leave’ side of the referendum campaign make good on their promise of new funding for Wales after we leave, but politicians from all sides and from all nations of the UK must come together to agree a new needs-based formula for the allocation of funding for the purpose of regional policy. We believe that this is the best guarantor of equity, equality and fairness between the UK’s constituent parts.

The Cabinet Secretary, in his response to us, alludes to the work that is being undertaken behind the scenes to press the UK Government on a replacement for funding after we leave the EU. Perhaps he could shed light on how those discussions are actually progressing when he rises to speak in this debate afterwards.

Recommendations 7, 8, 9 and 10 all looked at how we evaluate the effectiveness of past experience in order to inform the future. As a committee, we felt that it is critically important—that we make the most of the opportunities to design future policy in ways that maximise the benefits for the people of Wales. We recognised that, in the three tranches we’ve had so far, we have seen different levels of success. This does include also looking at a broader range of indicators than solely economic indicators. It also means that we can look across the globe for best practice. And it was heartening to see that, in his formal response to our report, the Cabinet Secretary is amenable to this concept and open to adopting experimental approaches.

The Cabinet Secretary also makes reference throughout his submission to the Welsh Government’s forthcoming paper on the future of regional policy. I would therefore ask whether the Cabinet Secretary can give us an idea of the timescales for the publication of this work, because his response indicated ‘in the autumn’, and I would be grateful for further clarification on that particular point.

We heard concerns during the inquiry about the complexity of the landscape for the delivery of regional policy, and recommendations 11 and 12 relate to this. Brexit gives us an opportunity to look again at the delivery models for regional economic development. The current landscape, described as a ‘spaghetti junction of layers’ by one witness, in our view must be simplified after Brexit. And whilst, in recommendation 13, we agree that the Welsh Government retains strategic oversight for this future policy, it is essential that future policy is responsive to local needs as much as possible. This should include ensuring that rural areas, not covered by the recent introduction of the city deals, are given a role in shaping policy in the future.

In terms of future approaches, we heard about the importance of productivity and innovation. The past performance of the Welsh economy in this area has been stubbornly weak. We therefore recommend that the Welsh Government addresses this in a number of ways, including through looking at the overall strategy for innovation, and through maximising opportunities through procurement policy.

Our seventeenth and final recommendation was a broad one, setting out some of our priority areas for the future. These include support for skills and human capital—and that term, ‘human capital’, was repeated several times throughout the witness evidence—investment in infrastructure and, importantly, engagement with the private sector wherever possible. That is something that I know was moving forward within the EU, but we need to make sure that that goes further. To that end, the Welsh Government should redouble its efforts to break down the barriers to collaboration between the public and private sectors.

Dirprwy Lywydd, before concluding, I want to say a little bit more about the sense of disappointment that we felt with the evidence we received from some witnesses during the inquiry. We heard very little ambition or constructive challenge from some quarters, and perhaps even less appetite to seize the opportunities that looking again at regional policy could bring. We felt very much that we heard that more of the same was the way forward. Things cannot and should not continue in the same vein. More of the same is not acceptable in the way we move ahead. And in a week where we are marking the twentieth anniversary of the devolution referendum, which was last week, we should take stock, look ahead to the next 20 years, with our sights set firmly on opportunities for forming a new regional development policy focused on the innovation, collaboration and, above all, excellence that all those opportunities can bring to the Welsh economy.

I look forward to discussing and hearing the Members’ contributions this afternoon, but our focus must be on taking Wales forward at the point we leave the EU.

Roedd ein set gyntaf o argymhellion yn edrych ar yr heriau uniongyrchol i’r cylch cyllido presennol. Bydd yr Aelodau’n ymwybodol fod Canghellor y Trysorlys yn hydref 2016 wedi gwarantu cyllid ar gyfer prosiectau hyd at 2020, ac rydym ni fel pwyllgor yn ddiamwys yn ein cefnogaeth i hyn. Mae’r darlun yn llai sicr, fodd bynnag, o ran bygythiadau a berir gan newidiadau mewn arian cyfredol yn dilyn Brexit. Er ei bod hi’n galonogol clywed bod Llywodraeth Cymru, gan weithio gyda Swyddfa Cyllid Ewropeaidd Cymru, wedi gallu lliniaru peth o’r risg a berir gan newidiadau mewn arian cyfredol, rydym yn credu ei bod yn ddyletswydd ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod y risgiau y mae hyn yn eu hachosi yn cael eu monitro’n gyson a’u hasesu, gan ein bod eisoes yn gwybod bod arian yn mynd i fyny ac i lawr yn eithaf rhwydd, ac ar hyn o bryd, mae i lawr.

Yn ystod ein hymchwiliad, edrychwyd ar yr achos dros bolisi rhanbarthol newydd ar ôl Brexit. Mae’r data sydd ar gael yn rhoi darlun sobreiddiol ac yn dangos i ni mai’r Deyrnas Unedig yw’r wlad fwyaf anghyfartal yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Credwn fod yr achos dros bolisi rhanbarthol ar gyfer Cymru yn y dyfodol, gyda chyllid ar gael i ni ar sail angen gwrthrychol, yn ddiamwys. Un o’r nifer o feysydd yr oeddem i gyd yn cytuno yn ei gylch oedd na ddylai Cymru fod yn waeth ei byd o ganlyniad i adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd nag y byddem wedi bod pe baem wedi aros yn yr UE. Fodd bynnag, y cwestiwn mawr yw: sut y mae cyflawni hynny? Nid yn unig y dylai’r rhai a oedd ar yr ochr ‘gadael’ yn ymgyrch y refferendwm gyflawni eu haddewid o arian newydd ar gyfer Cymru ar ôl i ni adael, mae’n rhaid i wleidyddion o bob ochr ac o bob gwlad yn y DU ddod at ei gilydd i gytuno ar fformiwla newydd yn seiliedig ar anghenion ar gyfer dyrannu cyllid at ddibenion polisi rhanbarthol. Rydym yn credu mai dyma’r ffordd orau o sicrhau chwarae teg, cydraddoldeb a thegwch rhwng rhannau cyfansoddol y DU.

Mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, yn ei ymateb i ni, yn cyfeirio at y gwaith sy’n cael ei wneud tu ôl i’r llenni i bwyso ar Lywodraeth y DU am arian yn lle’r arian a gawn o’r UE wedi i ni adael. Efallai y gallai daflu goleuni ar sut y mae’r trafodaethau hynny’n mynd rhagddynt mewn gwirionedd pan fydd yn codi i siarad yn y ddadl hon.

Roedd argymhellion 7, 8, 9 a 10 i gyd yn edrych ar sut y gwerthuswn effeithiolrwydd profiad blaenorol er mwyn llywio’r dyfodol. Fel pwyllgor, roeddem yn teimlo ei bod yn hanfodol bwysig—ein bod yn gwneud y mwyaf o’r cyfleoedd i lunio polisi yn y dyfodol mewn ffyrdd sy’n sicrhau cymaint â phosibl o fanteision i bobl Cymru. Roeddem yn cydnabod ein bod, yn y tair cyfran a gawsom hyd yn hyn, wedi gweld lefelau gwahanol o lwyddiant. Mae hyn yn cynnwys edrych hefyd ar ystod ehangach o ddangosyddion na dangosyddion economaidd yn unig. Mae hefyd yn golygu y gallwn edrych ar draws y byd ar arferion gorau. Ac roedd hi’n galonogol gweld bod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, yn ei ymateb ffurfiol i’n hadroddiad, yn barod i ystyried y cysyniad hwn ac yn agored i fabwysiadu dulliau arbrofol.

Mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet hefyd yn cyfeirio drwy gydol ei gyflwyniad at y papur sydd ar y ffordd gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar ddyfodol polisi rhanbarthol. Buaswn yn gofyn felly a all Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet roi syniad i ni o’r amserlenni ar gyfer cyhoeddi’r gwaith hwn, oherwydd roedd ei ymateb yn nodi ‘yn yr hydref’, a buaswn yn ddiolchgar am eglurhad pellach ar y pwynt penodol hwnnw.

Clywsom bryderon yn ystod yr ymchwiliad ynglŷn â chymhlethdod y tirlun ar gyfer darparu polisi rhanbarthol, ac mae argymhellion 11 a 12 yn ymwneud â hyn. Mae Brexit yn rhoi cyfle inni edrych eto ar y modelau darparu ar gyfer datblygu economaidd rhanbarthol. Yn ein barn ni, rhaid i’r tirlun presennol, a ddisgrifir fel ‘cyffordd sbageti o haenau’ gan un tyst, gael ei symleiddio ar ôl Brexit. Ac er ein bod yn cytuno, yn argymhelliad 13, fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cadw goruchwyliaeth strategol ar y polisi hwn yn y dyfodol, mae’n hanfodol fod y polisi yn y dyfodol yn ymateb cymaint â phosibl i anghenion lleol. Dylai hyn gynnwys sicrhau bod ardaloedd gwledig, sydd heb eu cynnwys yn y bargeinion dinesig a gyflwynwyd yn ddiweddar, yn cael rôl yn y broses o lunio polisi yn y dyfodol.

O ran dulliau o weithredu yn y dyfodol, clywsom am bwysigrwydd cynhyrchiant ac arloesi. Mae perfformiad economi Cymru yn y maes hwn wedi bod yn wan yn gyson yn y gorffennol. Felly, rydym yn argymell bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn mynd i’r afael â hyn mewn nifer o ffyrdd, gan gynnwys drwy edrych ar y strategaeth gyffredinol ar gyfer arloesi, a thrwy wneud y gorau o gyfleoedd drwy bolisi caffael.

Roedd ein hail argymhelliad ar bymtheg, a’r un terfynol, yn un eang a nodai rai o’n meysydd blaenoriaeth ar gyfer y dyfodol. Mae’r rhain yn cynnwys cymorth ar gyfer sgiliau a chyfalaf dynol—ac ailadroddwyd y term ‘cyfalaf dynol’ sawl gwaith drwy gydol tystiolaeth y tystion—buddsoddiad mewn seilwaith ac yn bwysig, ymgysylltiad â’r sector preifat lle bynnag y bo hynny’n bosibl. Mae hynny’n rhywbeth y gwn ei fod yn symud ymlaen o fewn yr UE, ond mae angen gwneud yn siŵr ei fod yn mynd ymhellach. I’r perwyl hwnnw, dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ddyblu ei hymdrechion i chwalu’r rhwystrau i gydweithio rhwng y sector cyhoeddus a’r sector preifat.

Dirprwy Lywydd, cyn dod i ben, rwyf am ddweud ychydig mwy am yr ymdeimlad o siom a deimlem gyda’r dystiolaeth a gawsom gan rai o’r tystion yn ystod yr ymchwiliad. Ychydig iawn o uchelgais neu her adeiladol a glywsom gan rai, a llai o awydd byth efallai i fanteisio ar y cyfleoedd y gellid eu sicrhau drwy edrych eto ar bolisi rhanbarthol. Roeddem yn teimlo’n bendant iawn ein bod wedi clywed mai rhagor o’r un peth oedd y ffordd ymlaen. Ni all, ac ni ddylai pethau barhau yn yr un modd. Nid yw rhagor o’r un peth yn dderbyniol o ran y ffordd y symudwn ymlaen. Ac mewn wythnos pan oeddem yn nodi ugain mlynedd ers y refferendwm ar ddatganoli, yr wythnos diwethaf, dylem bwyso a mesur, edrych ymlaen at yr 20 mlynedd nesaf, gyda’n golygon yn gadarn ar gyfleoedd i ffurfio polisi datblygu rhanbarthol newydd sy’n canolbwyntio ar yr arloesi, y cydweithio ac yn anad dim, y rhagoriaeth y gall pob un o’r cyfleoedd hynny eu dwyn i economi Cymru.

Edrychaf ymlaen at drafod a chlywed cyfraniadau’r Aelodau y prynhawn yma, ond mae’n rhaid i’n ffocws fod ar symud Cymru ymlaen ar y pwynt y byddwn yn gadael yr UE.