Y Cyfarfod Llawn

Plenary

12/10/2022

Yn y fersiwn ddwyieithog, mae’r golofn chwith yn cynnwys yr iaith a lefarwyd yn y cyfarfod. Mae’r golofn dde yn cynnwys cyfieithiad o’r areithiau hynny.

In the bilingual version, the left-hand column includes the language used during the meeting. The right-hand column includes a translation of those speeches.

Cyfarfu'r Senedd yn y Siambr a thrwy gynhadledd fideo am 13:30 gyda'r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair. 

The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

1. Cwestiynau i Weinidog y Gymraeg ac Addysg
1. Questions to the Minister for Education and the Welsh Language

Prynhawn da a chroeso i'r Cyfarfod Llawn y prynhawn yma. Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni yw'r cwestiynau i Weinidog y Gymraeg ac Addysg, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Sarah Murphy. 

Good afternoon and welcome to this afternoon's Plenary. The first item on our agenda is questions to the Minister for Education and the Welsh Language, and the first question is from Sarah Murphy. 

Lleoedd Ysgolion
School Places

1. Sut mae'r Gweinidog yn gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i sicrhau bod digon o leoedd ysgolion ar gael i ddisgyblion ar draws Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr? OQ58521

1. How is the Minister working with local authorities to ensure enough school places are available for pupils across Bridgend? OQ58521

Local authorities are responsible for planning school places. They must ensure that there are sufficient schools providing primary and secondary education for pupils in their areas. I am not aware of any local authority that does not have enough school places.

Awdurdodau lleol sy'n gyfrifol am gynllunio lleoedd ysgolion. Mae'n rhaid iddynt sicrhau bod digon o ysgolion yn darparu addysg gynradd ac uwchradd i ddisgyblion yn eu hardaloedd. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o unrhyw awdurdod lleol lle nad oes digon o leoedd ysgolion.

Thank you, Minister, and I appreciate your response to this question. I know from many parents in my constituency and, of course, across Wales, that they want to be able to send their children to good schools, close to their homes. But this has been a slight issue for parents and pupils in my community, so it is really great to hear about the £1.8 million investment from Bridgend County Borough Council schools in housing developments to increase classrooms and pupil capacity, at Bryntirion Comprehensive School, and that there are plans in place to extend the number of places at Coety Primary School, which is situated in a recent housing development. But I just want to highlight, specifically with Coety Primary School, unfortunately when the housing development was developed, and the school is in the centre of it, there just weren't enough places for the pupils, especially as the housing development now has expanded. So, there has been a gap where there were not enough places in that school for the children living directly around it, and that gap has meant that children have had to go further away and also siblings, in some cases, haven't been able to attend the same school. I understand that it can be tricky to predict how many places will be needed in new schools, but what more can be done, really, to allow a bit more flexibility around this when we have new housing and school developments?

Diolch, Weinidog, ac rwy’n gwerthfawrogi eich ymateb i’r cwestiwn hwn. Gwn ar ôl clywed gan lawer o rieni yn fy etholaeth, a ledled Cymru wrth gwrs, eu bod eisiau gallu danfon eu plant i ysgolion da, yn agos at eu cartrefi. Ond mae hon wedi bod yn broblem i rieni a disgyblion yn fy nghymuned, felly mae’n wych clywed am y buddsoddiad o £1.8 miliwn gan Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr i ysgolion mewn datblygiadau tai i gynyddu'r nifer o ystafelloedd dosbarth a lleoedd disgyblion, yn Ysgol Gyfun Bryntirion, a bod cynlluniau ar waith i gynyddu nifer y lleoedd yn Ysgol Gynradd Coety, sydd wedi'i lleoli mewn datblygiad tai diweddar. Ond hoffwn nodi, yn benodol mewn perthynas ag Ysgol Gynradd Coety, yn anffodus, pan adeiladwyd y datblygiad tai, ac mae'r ysgol yn ei ganol, nad oedd digon o leoedd ar gyfer y disgyblion, yn enwedig gan fod y datblygiad tai wedi ehangu bellach. Felly, mae bwlch lle nad oedd digon o leoedd yn yr ysgol honno ar gyfer y plant sy'n byw o'i chwmpas, ac mae'r bwlch hwnnw wedi golygu bod plant wedi gorfod mynd ymhellach i ffwrdd, ac mewn rhai achosion, fod brodyr a chwiorydd heb allu mynychu'r un ysgol. Rwy’n deall y gall fod yn anodd rhagweld faint o leoedd y bydd eu hangen mewn ysgolion newydd, ond beth arall y gellir ei wneud i ganiatáu rhywfaint yn fwy o hyblygrwydd yn hyn o beth pan fyddwn yn adeiladu datblygiadau tai ac ysgolion newydd?

Thank you to Sarah Murphy for welcoming the investment, including that which the Welsh Government provides into schools in Bridgend, as elsewhere. It was good to visit Bryntirion Comprehensive School with her recently. She is right to say, of course, that it is important that we make sure that schools and other public services are aligned with developments in housing. Our planning system is key in this in helping us to ensure that, as new housing developments come forward, there is sufficient school capacity available within communities. Authorities should take a strategic and long-term approach towards provision of community facilities, which obviously includes schools, when they are preparing their development plans. Those plans set out how places will change over a 15-year period—how many new houses will be built and where they will be located. And so, as part of that, we would expect for infrastructure, including school provision, to be a crucial consideration when planning those new housing developments. But I recognise that, sometimes, there is a gap between provision and the need arising, perhaps inevitably.

Diolch i Sarah Murphy am groesawu’r buddsoddiad, gan gynnwys yr hyn y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei ddarparu i ysgolion ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr, fel mewn mannau eraill. Roedd yn braf ymweld ag Ysgol Gyfun Bryntirion gyda hi'n ddiweddar. Mae'n llygad ei lle, wrth gwrs, yn dweud ei bod yn bwysig inni sicrhau bod ysgolion a gwasanaethau cyhoeddus eraill yn gydnaws â datblygiadau ym maes tai. Mae ein system gynllunio yn allweddol yn hyn o beth i’n helpu i sicrhau, wrth i ddatblygiadau tai newydd gael eu hadeiladu, fod digon o leoedd ysgolion ar gael mewn cymunedau. Dylai awdurdodau fabwysiadu ymagwedd strategol a hirdymor tuag at ddarparu cyfleusterau cymunedol, sy'n amlwg yn cynnwys ysgolion, pan fyddant yn paratoi eu cynlluniau datblygu. Mae’r cynlluniau hynny’n nodi sut y bydd lleoedd yn newid dros gyfnod o 15 mlynedd—faint o dai newydd a gaiff eu hadeiladu a ble y cânt eu lleoli. Ac felly, fel rhan o hynny, byddem yn disgwyl i seilwaith, gan gynnwys darpariaeth ysgolion, fod yn ystyriaeth hollbwysig wrth gynllunio’r datblygiadau tai newydd hynny. Ond rwy’n cydnabod, weithiau, fod bylchau rhwng y ddarpariaeth a’r angen, sydd efallai'n anochel.

Minister, in 2011, the Welsh Government published a circular called 'Measuring the capacity of schools in Wales', to support local authorities to plan school places, to report on surplus capacity and to set school admission numbers. Now, using data, as my colleague Sarah Murphy has rightly said—we use data to plan our school places—is vital, like birth rates, the number of new-build homes, migration data and new families moving to new areas. So, what is the Minister now doing to ensure that any supporting guidance is fit for purpose to support local authorities in planning school places now and for the future?

Weinidog, yn 2011, cyhoeddodd Llywodraeth Cymru gylchlythyr o’r enw, 'Mesur capasiti ysgolion yng Nghymru’, i gynorthwyo awdurdodau lleol i gynllunio lleoedd ysgolion, i adrodd ar leoedd gwag ac i bennu niferoedd derbyn ysgolion. Nawr, mae defnyddio data, fel y dywedodd fy nghyd-Aelod Sarah Murphy yn gwbl gywir—rydym yn defnyddio data i gynllunio ein lleoedd ysgolion—yn hanfodol, fel cyfraddau genedigaethau, nifer y cartrefi newydd a gaiff eu hadeiladu, data mudo a theuluoedd newydd yn symud i ardaloedd newydd. Felly, beth y mae’r Gweinidog yn ei wneud yn awr i sicrhau bod unrhyw ganllawiau ategol yn addas i'r diben er mwyn cefnogi awdurdodau lleol i gynllunio lleoedd ysgolion yn awr ac ar gyfer y dyfodol?

I'm content the guidance is sufficient to enable authorities to do that. Bridgend is a local authority that has more primary school places, in both Welsh and English-medium provision, and similarly in secondary provision, than there are pupils on the roll. There will be, as I discussed with Sarah Murphy a moment ago—. We are not, unfortunately, in the position where parents are always able to have the school of their first choice—that's not the system that we run. There's a balancing between that choice and the availability of places locally to that school, but, on a local authority basis, I can assure you that there are sufficient places to meet the demand that arises.

Rwy'n fodlon fod y canllawiau'n ddigonol i alluogi awdurdodau i wneud hynny. Mae Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr yn awdurdod lleol a chanddo fwy o leoedd ysgolion cynradd, mewn ysgolion cyfrwng Cymraeg yn ogystal â rhai cyfrwng Saesneg, ac yn yr un modd mewn darpariaeth uwchradd, nag sydd o ddisgyblion. Fel y trafodais gyda Sarah Murphy funud yn ôl—. Yn anffodus, nid ydym mewn sefyllfa lle mae rhieni bob amser yn gallu anfon eu plant i'r ysgol o'u dewis cyntaf—nid dyna'r system sydd gennym. Mae cydbwysedd rhwng y dewis hwnnw ac argaeledd lleoedd yn lleol i’r ysgol honno, ond ar sail awdurdodau lleol, gallaf roi sicrwydd i chi fod digon o leoedd i ddiwallu'r angen sy'n codi.

Myfyrwyr Prifysgol
University Students

2. Pa gefnogaeth y mae'r Llywodraeth yn ei darparu i fyfyrwyr prifysgol ar draws canolbarth a gorllewin Cymru wrth i'r argyfwng costau byw ddwysáu? OQ58543

2. What support is the Government providing to university students across mid and west Wales as the cost-of-living crisis intensifies? OQ58543

13:35

Cymru sy'n cynnig y pecyn cymorth mwyaf hael yn y Deyrnas Unedig, ac mae'r lefelau uchaf o gymorth grant nad oes angen ei ad-dalu yn targedu'r bobl sydd ei angen fwyaf. Rŷn ni'n cydweithio'n agos â'r sector i sicrhau eu bod nhw'n ystyried pob opsiwn i gefnogi myfyrwyr y mae'r argyfwng costau byw yn effeithio arnyn nhw.

Wales offers the most generous package of support in the UK, and the highest levels of non-repayable grant support being targeted to those most in need. We are working closely with the sector to ensure that they are considering all options to support students impacted by the cost-of-living crisis.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Efallai y dylwn i fod yn datgan diddordeb gan fod dwy ferch gen i yn y brifysgol ar hyn o bryd, a dwi wedi cael nifer o e-byst gan fyfyrwyr, nifer ohonyn nhw yn y ddwy brifysgol sy'n digwydd bod yn fy rhanbarth i. Felly, dwi'n ymwybodol iawn o'r straen cynyddol y mae'n myfyrwyr prifysgol yn ei wynebu yn sgil yr argyfwng costau byw. Yn wir, tra bo chwyddiant yn parhau i godi, mae'r pecyn cynhaliaeth sy'n cael ei roi i fyfyrwyr ond wedi codi rhyw 3.5 y cant, sydd wrth gwrs yn is na lefel chwyddiant. Ac yn ôl ymchwil diweddar gan Undeb Cenedlaethol Myfyrwyr Cymru, gwelwyd bod 92 y cant o fyfyrwyr yn pryderu am eu gallu i reoli eu harian, gyda bron hanner yn dweud bod hyn yn effeithio ar eu hiechyd meddwl. Yn wir, wrth roi tystiolaeth i'r Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg yn ddiweddar, dywedodd llywydd UCMC bod un myfyriwr o Gaerfyrddin ond â rhyw £100 ar ôl, ar ôl talu rhent a biliau yn ystod tymor yr hydref. Felly, gan ystyried hyn, a wnewch chi, Weinidog, sicrhau bod pecyn cynhaliaeth ar gael i fyfyrwyr sydd o leiaf ar yr un lefel â chwyddiant?

Thank you very much. Perhaps I should be declaring an interest because I have two daughters at university at the moment, and I've had a number of e-mails from students, many of them in the two universities that happen to be located in my region. So, I'm very aware of the increasing pressure on university students as a result of the cost-of-living crisis. Indeed, whilst inflation continues to rise, the package of support provided to students has only increased around 3.5 per cent, which is of course lower than the level of inflation. And according to recent research by the National Union of Students Wales, it was seen that 92 per cent of students are concerned about their ability to manage their finances, with almost half saying that this is having an impact on their mental health. Indeed, in giving evidence to the Children, Young People and Education Committee recently, the president of NUS Wales said that one student in Carmarthen had only £100 left after paying rent and bills during the autumn term. So, bearing this in mind, will you, Minister, ensure that a package of support is available to students that at least keeps pace with inflation?

Diolch i'r Aelod am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Ein blaenoriaeth ni yma yng Nghymru yw sicrhau bod gan fyfyrwyr fynediad at gefnogaeth sy'n caniatáu iddyn nhw gwrdd â costau dyddiol, a hefyd bod gan ein sefydliadau addysg uwch ni fynediad at lefelau addas a digonol o arian ar gyfer hynny. Fel rwy'n dweud, mae gennym ni yma yng Nghymru eisoes y pecyn mwyaf cefnogol o unrhyw ran o'r Deyrnas Gyfunol. Mae'n sicr yn wir bod pob prifysgol yn cynnig ffynhonnell i roi cefnogaeth benodol i fyfyrwyr o dan bwysau. Mae peth o'r gwasgedd a pheth o'r pwysau sy'n dod ar y ffynonellau hynny yn deillio o'r ffaith nad yw myfyrwyr o rannau eraill o'r Deyrnas Gyfunol yn cael yr un gefnogaeth, felly mae mwy o alw ar y ffynonellau arian argyfwng hynny yn ein prifysgolion ni yma yng Nghymru. Rwyf wedi ysgrifennu'n ddiweddar at Gyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru i sicrhau eu bod nhw'n gallu rhoi gwybod i fi fod digon o gefnogaeth ar gael drwy'r prifysgolion. O ran ein cefnogaeth ni fel rhan o'r system ariannu ehangach, mae gan bob myfyriwr access at isafswm o gefnogaeth sy'n gyfystyr â'r cyflog byw. Rwy'n bwriadu gwneud datganiad yn yr wythnosau nesaf ynglŷn â sut y bydd hynny'n edrych yn y dyfodol. Felly, bydd mwy o wybodaeth ar gael i'r Aelod, ac i Aelodau eraill, bryd hynny.

I thank the Member for that question. Our priority here in Wales is to ensure that students have access to support that allows them to meet their daily living costs, and also that our higher education institutions have access to appropriate and sufficient levels of funding for that. As I've said, we in Wales already have the most generous support package of any part of the UK. It's certainly true that every university provides specific support to students under particular pressure. Some of the pressure on those sources of funding emerges from the fact that students from other parts of the UK aren't getting the same level of support, so there is more demand for those crisis funds in our universities here in Wales. I have written recently to the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales to ensure that they can assure me that there is sufficient support available through the universities. In terms of our support through the broader funding system, every student has access to a minimum level of support, which equates to the living wage. I intend to make a statement in the next few weeks as to how that will look for the future. So, there will be more information available to the Member, and other Members, at that point.

Minister, I just want to raise an issue with you that I wanted to just check if you're aware of. A constituent of mine—a Welsh student—applied to an educational provider in England on a professional barrister training course, only to be told by the provider that they weren't willing to access the funding through Student Finance Wales. Now, this isn't an issue of concern—. This isn't a responsibility of the Welsh Government, but I am disappointed that Welsh students—and, from my own investigation, this seems to be the case—are being treated differently to English students if they're applying through Student Finance Wales. It's not an issue that I believe is the responsibility of the Welsh Government or, indeed, Student Finance Wales, but I do wonder whether you are aware of this situation, and is this something you'd be willing to challenge providers in England or, indeed, any other part of the UK, because would you agree with me that it would be entirely wrong for a Welsh student to be penalised? In this case, the parent has had to fund the course and the fees themselves; had the family been in England, that wouldn't have been the case. Are you aware of these issues? I'm very happy to write to you with more details.

Weinidog, hoffwn godi mater yr oeddwn am wneud yn siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol ohono. Gwnaeth un o fy etholwyr—myfyriwr o Gymru—gais i ddarparwr addysgol yn Lloegr ar gyfer cwrs hyfforddi bargyfreithwyr proffesiynol, a chawsant wybod gan y darparwr nad oeddent yn fodlon cael mynediad at y cyllid drwy Cyllid Myfyrwyr Cymru. Nawr, nid yw hwn yn fater o bryder—. Nid yw hyn yn gyfrifoldeb i Lywodraeth Cymru, ond rwy'n siomedig fod myfyrwyr o Gymru—ac o fy ymchwil fy hun, ymddengys bod hyn yn wir—yn cael eu trin yn wahanol i fyfyrwyr o Loegr os ydynt yn gwneud cais drwy Cyllid Myfyrwyr Cymru. Ni chredaf ei fod yn fater sy'n gyfrifoldeb i Lywodraeth Cymru, nac yn wir i Cyllid Myfyrwyr Cymru, ond tybed a ydych yn ymwybodol o’r sefyllfa hon, ac a yw hyn yn rhywbeth y byddech yn fodlon herio darparwyr yn Lloegr neu unrhyw ran arall o'r DU yn ei gylch, oherwydd a fyddech yn cytuno â mi y byddai’n gwbl anghywir i fyfyriwr o Gymru gael eu cosbi? Yn yr achos hwn, mae'r rhiant wedi gorfod ariannu'r cwrs a'r ffioedd eu hunain; pe bai'r teulu wedi bod yn Lloegr, ni fyddai hynny wedi digwydd. A ydych yn ymwybodol o'r materion hyn? Rwy'n fwy na pharod i ysgrifennu atoch gyda rhagor o fanylion.

I'd be very grateful if the Member could write to me about that specific case, and I will look into that. We have a mechanism, a system, in Wales that enables course providers in any part of the UK to be accredited, as the Member obviously knows, and that isn't based on geography; it's based on objective accreditation and criteria, which then enables a Welsh student to be able to access that provider in any part of the UK and have the support that is available through Student Finance Wales. So, I'm disturbed to hear what the Member has outlined today and I'd be grateful if he would write to me about that.

Byddwn yn ddiolchgar iawn pe gallai’r Aelod ysgrifennu ataf ynglŷn â'r achos penodol hwnnw, a byddaf yn ymchwilio iddo. Mae gennym fecanwaith, system, yng Nghymru sy’n galluogi darparwyr cyrsiau mewn unrhyw ran o’r DU i gael eu hachredu, fel y mae’r Aelod yn amlwg yn gwybod, ac nid yw’n seiliedig ar ddaearyddiaeth; mae’n seiliedig ar feini prawf ac achredu gwrthrychol, sydd wedyn yn galluogi myfyriwr o Gymru i allu cael mynediad at y darparwr hwnnw mewn unrhyw ran o’r DU, a chael y cymorth sydd ar gael drwy Cyllid Myfyrwyr Cymru. Felly, mae clywed yr hyn y mae'r Aelod wedi'i amlinellu heddiw yn peri gofid i mi, a byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gall ysgrifennu ataf ynglŷn â hynny.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Laura Anne Jones.

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Laura Anne Jones.

13:40

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, I have always been supportive of the idea that sex education needed to be updated in Wales. It was archaic and needed changing, but in the right way. I find the already apparent failures that we're seeing to get RSE right quite upsetting. If things are not adapted, we will miss an opportunity here to genuinely make better sex education for children and young people across Wales. The good from the much-needed changes that we're seeing in sex education will be lost due to not ensuring age appropriateness of content and language when delivering such important messaging to our children and young people. As I heavily stressed to the former Minister, Kirsty Williams, who has three children of her own, the new content of what was being taught needed to—and she agreed—(a) use vocabulary that can be understood by the child/young person that's being taught, and (b), and most importantly, make sure that the content was not confusing and was age appropriate. We are one month into this new term and the official beginning of the new curriculum RSE being delivered, and it's abundantly clear from parents and teachers alike that some of the teaching materials that have been recommended are concerning to them. And they are most certainly not—a worrying number of materials recommended—age appropriate after all. As a mother to a 12 and three-year-old myself, I'm deeply concerned about what we're hearing—

Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, rwyf bob amser wedi bod yn gefnogol i’r syniad fod angen diweddaru addysg rhyw yng Nghymru. Roedd wedi dyddio ac roedd angen ei newid, ond yn y ffordd iawn. Mae'r methiannau amlwg a welwn mewn perthynas ag addysg cydberthynas a rhywioldeb yn peri gofid i mi. Os na chaiff pethau eu haddasu, byddwn yn colli cyfle yma i fynd ati o ddifrif i wella addysg rhyw i blant a phobl ifanc ledled Cymru. Bydd y lles o'r newidiadau mawr eu hangen yr ydym yn eu gweld mewn addysg rhyw yn cael eu colli drwy beidio â sicrhau cynnwys ac iaith sy'n addas i oedran wrth gyflwyno negeseuon mor bwysig i'n plant a'n pobl ifanc. Fel y pwysleisiais yn gryf wrth y cyn Weinidog, Kirsty Williams, sydd â thri o blant ei hun, roedd angen i gynnwys newydd yr hyn a gâi ei ddysgu—ac roedd hi'n cytuno—(a) ddefnyddio geirfa y gall y plentyn/unigolyn ifanc sy'n cael eu dysgu ei deall, a (b), ac yn bwysicaf oll, sicrhau nad oedd y cynnwys yn peri dryswch a'i fod yn addas i'r oedran. Rydym fis i mewn i’r tymor newydd hwn a dechrau cyflwyno'r cwricwlwm addysg cydberthynas a rhywioldeb newydd yn swyddogol, ac mae’n gwbl amlwg fod rhywfaint o’r deunydd addysgu a argymhellwyd yn peri pryder i rieni ac athrawon. Ac yn sicr, nid ydynt—gormod lawer o'r deunydd a argymhellir—yn addas i'r oedran wedi’r cyfan. Fel mam i blentyn 12 oed a phlentyn tair oed fy hun, rwy'n bryderus iawn ynglŷn â'r hyn a glywn—

You are going to have to come to a question now; you have three questions in this session, and you're already 50 per cent over time. 

Mae'n rhaid ichi ofyn cwestiwn yn awr; mae gennych dri chwestiwn yn y sesiwn hon, ac rydych eisoes 50 y cant dros amser.

Minister, let me read you an excerpt from a book—

Weinidog, gadewch imi ddarllen dyfyniad i chi o lyfr—

No, no, no; I don't think you have time. You can read that in your next question within your next minute. Can you come to a question?

Na, na, na; ni chredaf fod gennych amser. Gallwch ei ddarllen yn eich cwestiwn nesaf yn ystod eich munud nesaf. A wnewch chi ddod at gwestiwn?

Okay. Minister, it's important that everyone be whoever they want to be, and we need to teach understanding and respect for all. But don't you agree with me that what is being taught absolutely needs to be right for that child's age, so they (1) understand the language being used, and (2) are emotionally mature enough to digest the content of it?

Iawn. Weinidog, mae’n bwysig fod pawb yn gallu bod yn bwy bynnag y dymunant fod, ac mae angen inni addysgu dealltwriaeth a pharch at bawb. Ond onid ydych yn cytuno â mi fod angen i'r hyn sy'n cael ei ddysgu fod yn gwbl addas ar gyfer oedran y plentyn hwnnw, fel eu bod (1) yn deall yr iaith a ddefnyddir, a (2) yn ddigon aeddfed yn emosiynol i dreulio ei gynnwys?

Well, I'll begin by saying that being a parent isn't a prerequisite for caring about the well-being of our children in Wales. [Assembly Members: 'Hear, hear.'] and that my priority as Minister, which is shared very widely in this Chamber, is to make sure that our young people are protected and are enabled to live lives that are healthy and safe. We work with the NSPCC in order to make sure that the resources that we've provided, the code and the legislation, meet that standard. There are those who disagree with what we are doing. They need to account for their own motivations, but that is the basis upon which we are introducing the reforms. 

The Member repeats unspecific, generic, broad-based points that she made the last time I was answering questions in this Chamber. As a consequence of the very dangerous implication, I think, that she was making, I wrote to her inviting her to spell out to me any specific examples that she was alluding to in the Chamber and she has not replied. 

Wel, rwyf am ddechrau drwy ddweud nad yw bod yn rhiant yn rhagofyniad ar gyfer poeni am les ein plant yng Nghymru. [Aelodau’r Senedd: 'Clywch, clywch.’] ac mai fy mlaenoriaeth fel Gweinidog, a rennir yn eang iawn yn y Siambr hon, yw sicrhau bod ein pobl ifanc yn cael eu hamddiffyn ac yn cael eu galluogi i fyw bywydau iach a diogel. Rydym yn gweithio gyda’r NSPCC i sicrhau bod yr adnoddau a ddarparwyd gennym, y cod a’r ddeddfwriaeth, yn bodloni’r safon honno. Ceir rhai sy'n anghytuno â'r hyn a wnawn. Mae angen iddynt roi cyfrif am eu cymhellion eu hunain, ond dyna'r sail ar gyfer cyflwyno’r diwygiadau.

Mae’r Aelod yn ailadrodd pwyntiau cyffredinol ac amhenodol a wnaeth y tro diwethaf y bûm yn ateb cwestiynau yn y Siambr hon. O ganlyniad i’r awgrym peryglus iawn a wnaeth, rwy'n credu, ysgrifennais ati i'w gwahodd i egluro unrhyw enghreifftiau penodol y cyfeiriodd atynt yn y Siambr, ac nid yw wedi ateb.

Thank you, Minister. I was getting on to that; I'm just about to read you an excerpt from a book that is meant to be for five-year-olds. This book, which was recommended, is called Who are you?, Minister, with one quote from it saying:

'When babies are born, people ask if it's a boy or a girl. Babies can't talk, so grown-ups make a guess by looking at their bodies'

—for five-year-olds. 

This next sentence in the book:

'People can be transgender, queer, non-binary, gender fluid, transgender-neutral, a-gender, gender-neutral, bigender, third gender and two-spirit.'

Now, it is not the content that I'm concerned about, Minister; it's the content in a book for a five-year-old that I am getting at. I am not having a go at the teaching profession, a profession I hold in high regard. It is the materials that are being recommended by this Government for them to teach, that they themselves are concerned about, heads are concerned about, and parents are concerned about. That is what I am doing. And you sent me a letter, as did a member of the union, who's a former Labour staffer, I hasten to had, and I just want to say again on record that I would never dream of attacking a profession that I hold in such high regard. It is the content, Minister. It is my job to hold you to account and to speak up for the parents who are concerned about what is being sent out as advisory to look at for their children. A five-year-old being able to say all those big words, Minister—can you understand?

Diolch, Weinidog. Roeddwn yn dod at hynny; rwyf ar fin darllen dyfyniad i chi o lyfr sydd i fod ar gyfer plant pump oed. Weinidog, enw’r llyfr hwn, a argymhellwyd, yw Who are you?, sy'n cynnwys y dyfyniad hwn:

'Pan fydd babanod yn cael eu geni, mae pobl yn gofyn ai merch neu fachgen ydyn nhw. Ni all babanod siarad, felly mae oedolion yn dyfalu drwy edrych ar eu cyrff.'

—ar gyfer plant pump oed.

Y frawddeg nesaf yn y llyfr yw hon:

'Gall pobl fod yn drawsryweddol, yn cwiar, yn anneuaidd, yn rhyweddhylifol, yn anrhyweddol, yn niwtral o ran rhywedd, yn ddeurywedd, yn drydydd rhywedd ac yn ddau-enaid.'

Nawr, nid y cynnwys sy'n fy mhoeni, Weinidog; fy mhwynt yw ei fod yn gynnwys mewn llyfr ar gyfer plentyn pum mlwydd oed. Nid wyf yn ymosod ar y proffesiwn addysgu, proffesiwn y mae gennyf barch mawr ato. Dyma’r deunyddiau sy’n cael eu hargymell gan y Llywodraeth hon iddynt eu haddysgu, y maent hwy eu hunain yn pryderu yn eu cylch, y mae penaethiaid yn pryderu yn eu cylch, ac y mae rhieni’n pryderu yn eu cylch. Dyna rwy'n ei wneud. Ac fe anfonoch chi lythyr ataf, fel y gwnaeth aelod o'r undeb, sy'n gyn-aelod o staff Llafur, prysuraf i ychwanegu, a hoffwn ddweud eto ar goedd na fyddwn byth yn breuddwydio ymosod ar broffesiwn y mae gennyf barch mor fawr ato. Mae'n ymwneud â'r cynnwys, Weinidog. Fy swydd i yw eich dwyn i gyfrif a siarad ar ran y rhieni sy'n pryderu am yr hyn yr argymhellir y dylid edrych arno ar gyfer eu plant. Plentyn pump oed yn gallu dweud yr holl eiriau mawr hynny, Weinidog—a allwch chi ddeall?

You are going to have to ask your question, Laura Anne Jones. I don't know what's so difficult about asking a question. Come to your question. 

Bydd yn rhaid ichi ofyn eich cwestiwn, Laura Anne Jones. Nid wyf yn gwybod beth sydd mor anodd am ofyn cwestiwn. Dewch at eich cwestiwn.

Thank you, Llywydd. Will you now take immediate action to ensure that local authority, school and youth service education resources are age appropriate, and immediately remove those that aren't, and also those that signpost to Mermaids? Will you commit to reviewing materials that are found to be unnecessary for this age group, and ensure that the materials are led by science, as well as including gender ideology, age appropriateness—

Diolch, Lywydd. A wnewch chi gymryd camau ar unwaith i sicrhau bod adnoddau addysg awdurdodau lleol, ysgolion a gwasanaethau ieuenctid yn addas i'r oedran, a chael gwared ar y rhai nad ydynt yn addas ar unwaith, a hefyd y rheini sy'n cyfeirio pobl at Mermaids? A wnewch chi ymrwymo i adolygu deunyddiau y gwelwyd eu bod yn ddiangen ar gyfer y grŵp oedran hwn, a sicrhau bod y deunyddiau’n cael eu harwain gan wyddoniaeth, yn ogystal â chynnwys ideoleg rhywedd, addasrwydd i oedran—

13:45

You've already asked three questions in that series of questions. You are not to ask your third question. You've asked plenty of questions in this session—already four minutes of time spent on it. Can I ask the Minister, please, to respond to any of those questions? 

Rydych eisoes wedi gofyn tri chwestiwn yn y gyfres honno o gwestiynau. Nid ydych i ofyn eich trydydd cwestiwn. Rydych wedi gofyn digon o gwestiynau yn y sesiwn hon—mae pedwar munud o amser wedi'i dreulio ar hyn eisoes. A gaf fi ofyn i’r Gweinidog ymateb i unrhyw rai o’r cwestiynau hynny, os gwelwch yn dda?

I'll put it as neutrally as I can. I think the Member does a disservice to the young people of Wales in the way in which she's going about this line of questioning. I'm perfectly prepared to answer questions, as I did last time. I invited her to draw to my attention specific material that she alleged, the last time we spoke, was in use in schools. She has not done that. I would invite her to do that, so that it can be resolved, rather than used simply as a debating point on her behalf. 

Ceisiaf fod mor niwtral ag y gallaf. Credaf fod yr Aelod yn gwneud anghymwynas â phobl ifanc Cymru gyda'r ffordd y mae'n gofyn y cwestiynau hyn. Rwy’n berffaith barod i ateb cwestiynau, fel y gwneuthum y tro diwethaf. Fe'i gwahoddais i dynnu fy sylw at ddeunydd penodol yr honnai, y tro diwethaf inni siarad, ei fod yn cael ei ddefnyddio mewn ysgolion. Nid yw wedi gwneud hynny. Hoffwn ei gwahodd i wneud hynny, fel y gellir datrys y mater, yn hytrach na’i ddefnyddio fel pwynt dadl ar ei rhan.

Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Sioned Williams. 

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Sioned Williams. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Weinidog, mae effaith yr argyfwng costau byw cyn waethed, os nad yn waeth, na'r argyfwng COVID i rai myfyrwyr. Dyna oedd barn is-ganghellor Prifysgol De Cymru, Ben Calvert, wrth roi tystiolaeth i'r Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg yr wythnos diwethaf. Rhybuddiodd ef ei fod yn poeni'n benodol am fyfyrwyr hŷn, a oedd mewn perygl o adael cyrsiau allweddol, fel graddau gofal iechyd a nyrsio, am nad oedden nhw'n medru fforddio costau byw. Mae'r myfyrwyr ar gyrsiau fel hyn hefyd, wrth gwrs, yn methu â gweithio i gael incwm ychwanegol yn sgil y ffaith eu bod yn gorfod bod ar leoliadau gwaith fel rhan o'u cwrs. Mae arolwg Undeb Cenedlaethol y Myfyrwyr Cymru yn cefnogi y datganiad pryderus yma, yn datgelu bod 28 y cant o fyfyrwyr yng Nghymru â llai na £50 y mis i fyw arno; 92 y cant yn pryderu am eu gallu i ymdopi yn ariannol; 11 y cant yn defnyddio banciau bwyd; a theimla 89 y cant nad yw Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Gyfunol, nac ychwaith Llywodraeth Cymru, yn gwneud digon i'w cefnogi yn ystod yr argyfwng yma. Dwi'n nodi eich ateb chi i Cefin Campbell i'r cwestiwn blaenorol, a dwi'n edrych ymlaen at eich datganiad ynglŷn â dyfodol y pecyn cynhaliaeth, ond a oes yna rywbeth gall y Llywodraeth ei wneud i ymrwymo i ddarparu grantiau ychwanegol, naill ai yn uniongyrchol neu drwy gronfeydd caledi prifysgolion, i'w helpu drwy y cyfnod anodd hwn yn benodol, i wneud yn iawn am y ffaith bod y pecyn cyllid myfyrwyr bellach yn annigonol, yn sgil chwyddiant, fod rhai myfyrwyr wedi'u cau mas o'r gefnogaeth costau byw— 

Thank you, Llywydd. Minister, the impact of the cost-of-living crisis is as bad, if not worse, than the effects of COVID for some students. That was the view of the vice-chancellor of the University of South Wales, Ben Calvert, as he gave evidence to the Children, Young People, and Education Committee last week. He warned that he was particularly concerned about mature students who were at risk of leaving key courses, such as healthcare and nursing courses, because they couldn't afford the cost of living. Students on such courses also can't work to make additional income, as a result of the fact that they do have to be on work placements as part of their course. The National Union of Students Wales's survey supports this concerning statement, revealing that 28 per cent of students in Wales have less than £50 a month to live on; 92 per cent are concerned about their ability to cope financially; 11 per cent are using food banks; and 89 per cent feel that neither the UK Government nor the Welsh Government are doing enough to support them during this crisis. I note your response to Cefin Campbell to the previous question, and I look forward to hearing your statement on the future of the support package, but is there anything that the Government can do to commit to provide additional grants, either directly or through university hardship funds to help them through this difficult period particularly, to make up for the fact that the student finance package is inadequate as a result of inflation, that some students are excluded from the cost-of-living support— 

Dwi'n mynd i orfod gofyn i'r Aelod ddod i gwestiwn.  

 I am going to have to ask the Member to come to a question. 

Fel wnes i sôn yn gynharach, mae hon yn sefyllfa heriol iawn i fyfyrwyr am y rhesymau mae Sioned Williams yn sôn amdanyn nhw. Mae gan bob prifysgol yng Nghymru gronfa galedi i sicrhau bod darpariaeth ar gael i'r rheini sydd yn y sefyllfaoedd mwyaf heriol. Mae maint y cronfeydd hynny yn amrywio o sefydliad i sefydliad. Rwyf wedi gofyn i HEFCW roi sicrwydd i mi fod yr hyn sy'n cael ei ddarparu gan ein prifysgolion ni yn ddigonol, bod access digonol ar gael drwy'r prifysgolion i gefnogaeth ariannol ar gyfer y cyfnod anodd hwn. Ond ar gyfer blynyddoedd yn y dyfodol—y flwyddyn nesaf ymlaen—byddaf yn gwneud datganiad maes o law ynglŷn â'r lefel o gefnogaeth. 

As I said earlier, this is a very challenging time for students for the reasons that Sioned Williams outlined. Every university in Wales has a hardship fund to ensure that provision is available for those who are in the most challenging circumstances. The size of those funds does vary from institution to institution. I have asked HEFCW to give me an assurance that what is provided by our universities is adequate, that there is adequate access via the universities to financial support during this difficult time. But for future years—next year onwards—I'll be making a statement in due course about the level of support. 

Diolch, Weinidog. Mae rhent myfyrwyr yn benodol, wrth gwrs, wedi codi 29 y cant yng Nghymru dros y tair blynedd diwethaf, ac, erbyn hyn, yn llyncu bron i 60 y cant o'r pecyn cyllid myfyrwyr ar gyfartaledd. Fel plaid, rŷn ni wedi bod yn galw am weithredu mesurau costau byw brys a radical, fel rhewi rhent a gwahardd troi allan, gan y bydd y cynnydd mewn rhent yn drychinebus i nifer o fyfyrwyr sy'n ei chael hi'n anodd i ymdopi, gan effeithio'n negyddol ar eu hiechyd meddwl a chorfforol nhw, ac ar eu hastudiaethau, wrth gwrs. A yw'r Llywodraeth yn mynd i wrando ar alwadau rhai fel llywydd undeb myfyrwyr Cymru, Orla Tarn, sydd wedi datgan ei bod o blaid gosod cap ar rent ar lety a thai myfyrwyr, fel sy'n digwydd yn yr Alban, gan alw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddilyn Llywodraeth yr Alban i gefnogi myfyrwyr Cymru yn yr un modd? 

Thank you, Minister. Student rent particularly has increased by 29 per cent in Wales over the past three years, and now takes up almost 60 per cent of the student support package as an average. As a party, we've been calling for urgent and radical cost-of-living measures, such as rent freezes and prohibiting evictions, because this increase will be disastrous for a number of students, having negative impacts on their mental and physical health, and also on their studies, of course. Will the Government listen to the calls of those, such as Orla Tarn, the president of NUS Wales, who has stated that she is in favour of putting a cap on student rent, as happens in Scotland, calling on the Welsh Government to follow the Scottish Government in supporting Welsh students in the same manner?  

Rwy'n cwrdd gyda llywydd NUS Cymru yn y dyddiau sydd i ddod i drafod hyn gyda nhw, oherwydd gwnes i weld y dystiolaeth gafodd ei rhoi i'r pwyllgor. Fel bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod, rŷn ni wedi edrych yn fanwl ar yr hyn sy'n cael ei gynnig yn yr Alban, a dyw e ddim yn edrych efallai ar y wyneb mor hael ac y mae ef—. Mae'n edrych yn fwy hael efallai ar yr wyneb nag yw e go iawn. Rŷn ni hefyd yn poeni'n ddirfawr am yr hyn rŷn ni'n gweld yn digwydd yn yr Alban, hynny yw, bod pobl yn tynnu allan o'r farchnad rhentu preifat, sydd yn creu heriau mwy sylweddol i fyfyrwyr ac i eraill. Ond dyma un o'r pethau rwy'n bwriadu eu trafod gyda llywydd NUS Cymru pan fyddaf yn cwrdd gyda nhw yn y diwrnodau nesaf.  

I am meeting with the president of NUS Wales in the coming days to discuss that with them, because I heard the evidence given to the committee. As the Member will know, we've looked in detail at what is being provided in Scotland, and it doesn't look on the face of it as generous—. Perhaps, on the face of it, it does seem more generous than it really is. And we're very concerned about what we see happening in Scotland—many people are withdrawing from the private rented sector, which creates more challenges for students and others. But this is one of the things I do intend to discuss with the president of NUS Wales when I meet with them in the coming days. 

Sgiliau Bywyd Hanfodol
Essential Life Skills

3. Sut mae'r Gweinidog yn sicrhau bod y system addysg yn rhoi sgiliau bywyd hanfodol i bobl ifanc? OQ58514

3. How is the Minister ensuring that the education system provides young people with essential life skills? OQ58514

The Curriculum for Wales's mandatory four purposes provide the shared vision and aspiration for every child and young person. The purposes, and the integral skills that support them, set high expectations to ensure every learner gains a broad and balanced education, including the skills they need to thrive.

Mae pedwar diben gorfodol y Cwricwlwm i Gymru yn darparu’r weledigaeth a’r dyhead a rennir ar gyfer pob plentyn a pherson ifanc. Mae’r dibenion, a’r sgiliau craidd sy’n eu cefnogi, yn gosod disgwyliadau uchel i sicrhau bod pob dysgwr yn cael addysg eang a chytbwys, gan gynnwys y sgiliau sydd eu hangen arnynt i ffynnu.

13:50

Thank you, Minister. We all know the importance of young people leaving school with a good education. However, having a good education should be more than just receiving good grades. It should be about giving young people the skills that they need to deal with life. Life skills help people focus on many facets of their lives and are essential in helping them manage stress and to solve the problems they may face throughout their lives. The life skills that I'm referring to include developing effective communication, financial literacy, decision making, time organisation, stress management, as well as more basic skills, such as cooking and sewing. So, Minister, how is the education system in Wales providing young people with the essential life skills required to fully prepare them for the future? Because, as much as it's important for someone to know pi equals 22/7 or 3.14, it's also incredibly vital that young people know early on how to pay a bill, fill out a mortgage form, learn how to invest their money, and how to submit tax returns as well.

Diolch, Weinidog. Gŵyr pob un ohonom pa mor bwysig yw hi fod pobl ifanc yn gadael yr ysgol gydag addysg dda. Fodd bynnag, dylai addysg dda olygu mwy na chael graddau da yn unig. Dylai ymwneud â rhoi'r sgiliau sydd eu hangen arnynt i bobl ifanc allu ymdopi â bywyd. Mae sgiliau bywyd yn helpu pobl i ganolbwyntio ar sawl agwedd ar eu bywydau ac maent yn hanfodol i'w helpu i reoli straen a datrys y problemau y gallent eu hwynebu drwy gydol eu hoes. Mae'r sgiliau bywyd y cyfeiriaf atynt yn cynnwys datblygu sgiliau cyfathrebu effeithiol, llythrennedd ariannol, gwneud penderfyniadau, trefnu amser, rheoli straen, yn ogystal â sgiliau mwy sylfaenol fel coginio a gwnïo. Felly, Weinidog, sut y mae’r system addysg yng Nghymru yn darparu’r sgiliau bywyd hanfodol sydd eu hangen ar bobl ifanc i’w paratoi’n llawn ar gyfer y dyfodol? Oherwydd, er mor bwysig yw hi i rywun wybod bod pi yn hafal i 22/7 neu 3.14, mae hefyd yn hynod hanfodol fod pobl ifanc yn gwybod yn gynnar sut i dalu bil, llenwi ffurflen forgais, dysgu sut i fuddsoddi eu harian, a sut i gyflwyno ffurflenni treth hefyd.

The Member will be aware, of course, that our new curriculum in schools has the provision of life skills very much at its heart. We want practitioners to have the agency to be able to develop their curricula to support learners to develop exactly those sorts of life skills. The four purposes that are at the heart of the curriculum are underpinned by a range of 33 characteristics, which comprise a range of different life skills, very much inspired by the report of 2019 by the last Welsh Youth Parliament, which I'm sure she's familiar with, 'Life skills, skills for life.' That was one of the key issues that was raised by the Youth Parliament then. That's been a really important part in our thinking about how we take the curriculum forward. So, I welcome her commitment to this area—it's one that we all share—and we look forward to seeing the curriculum rolling out through our schools, providing the range of life skills, some of which she highlighted in her question.

Bydd yr Aelod yn ymwybodol, wrth gwrs, fod darpariaeth sgiliau bywyd yn gwbl ganolog i'n cwricwlwm newydd mewn ysgolion. Rydym am i addysgwyr gael rhwydd hynt i allu datblygu eu cwricwla i gefnogi dysgwyr i ddatblygu’r union fathau hynny o sgiliau bywyd. Mae’r pedwar diben sydd wrth wraidd y cwricwlwm wedi’u seilio ar ystod o 33 o nodweddion sy’n creu amrywiaeth o wahanol sgiliau bywyd, ac sydd wedi’u hysbrydoli’n fawr gan adroddiad gan Senedd Ieuenctid ddiwethaf Cymru yn 2019, y mae'n gyfarwydd ag ef rwy'n siŵr, 'Sgiliau Bywyd, Sgiliau Byw.' Roedd hynny'n un o’r materion allweddol a godwyd gan y Senedd Ieuenctid ar y pryd. Mae hynny wedi bod yn rhan bwysig iawn o'n ffordd o feddwl ynglŷn â sut i fwrw ymlaen â'r cwricwlwm. Felly, croesawaf ei hymrwymiad i'r maes hwn—mae'n un y mae pob un ohonom yn ei rannu—ac edrychwn ymlaen at weld y cwricwlwm yn cael ei gyflwyno yn ein hysgolion, ac yn darparu'r ystod o sgiliau bywyd, y tynnodd hi sylw at rai ohonynt yn ei chwestiwn.

I'd like to thank Natasha Asghar for tabling this important question. Minister, given what young people have been through with COVID, what they're going to go through with the cost-of-living crisis, it is essential, is it not, that, through the new curriculum, they're able to attain those essential life skills, particularly in financial literacy and mental health awareness. Would you join me in recognising the hard work in the previous Senedd by Bethan Sayed, who really did push very hard the need for young people to develop essential financial skills?

Hoffwn ddiolch i Natasha Asghar am gyflwyno’r cwestiwn pwysig hwn. Weinidog, o ystyried yr hyn y mae pobl ifanc wedi bod drwyddo gyda COVID, yr hyn y maent ar fin mynd drwyddo gyda'r argyfwng costau byw, mae'n hanfodol eu bod, drwy'r cwricwlwm newydd, yn gallu dysgu'r sgiliau bywyd hanfodol hynny, yn enwedig mewn llythrennedd ariannol ac ymwybyddiaeth iechyd meddwl. A wnewch chi ymuno â mi i gydnabod y gwaith caled yn y Senedd flaenorol gan Bethan Sayed, a bwysleisiodd yr angen i bobl ifanc ddatblygu sgiliau ariannol hanfodol?

Yes, indeed, and I pay tribute to Ken Skates's work as well in relation to the area of mental health awareness in particular. I absolutely agree with the burden of his question. We know that life skills such as financial literacy, alongside decision making and mental health and emotional well-being, are critical elements of a transformative curriculum. Not everybody, of course, voted for that curriculum when they were given that opportunity. He will know that the guidance sets out developing financial literacy for the study of the number system in mathematics, it's complemented in the health and well-being area through exploration of risk and personal debt and its consequences, and the curriculum brings those areas together. So, whichever part of the curriculum the young person is studying, there's an opportunity to bring those aspects together, to align them, to give them the full suite of skills, including those of mental health awareness and financial literacy, which Ken Skates has just emphasised.

Yn wir, ac rwy'n talu teyrnged i waith Ken Skates hefyd mewn perthynas â maes ymwybyddiaeth iechyd meddwl yn arbennig. Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â byrdwn ei gwestiwn. Gwyddom fod sgiliau bywyd fel llythrennedd ariannol, ynghyd â gwneud penderfyniadau ac iechyd meddwl a lles emosiynol, yn elfennau hanfodol o gwricwlwm trawsnewidiol. Nid pawb, wrth gwrs, a bleidleisiodd dros y cwricwlwm hwnnw pan roddwyd cyfle iddynt wneud hynny. Fe fydd yn gwybod bod y canllawiau’n egluro sut i ddatblygu llythrennedd ariannol ar gyfer astudio’r system rifau mewn mathemateg, caiff ei ategu ym maes iechyd a lles drwy archwilio risg a dyled bersonol a’i chanlyniadau, ac mae’r cwricwlwm yn dod â’r meysydd hynny ynghyd. Felly, ni waeth pa ran o’r cwricwlwm y mae pobl ifanc yn ei hastudio, mae cyfle i ddod â’r agweddau hynny ynghyd, i’w gosod ochr yn ochr, er mwyn rhoi’r gyfres lawn o sgiliau iddynt, gan gynnwys sgiliau ymwybyddiaeth iechyd meddwl a llythrennedd ariannol, y mae Ken Skates newydd eu pwysleisio.

Part of the new curriculum and the core skills we're trying to develop in our young people is also that confidence. It's some real hardcore nitty-gritty things, but it's also confident, creative children who are willing to speak out and engage. You can often tell when you walk into a class and they're chatting away—well behaved, but chatting.

We just had Bryncethin primary up in the gallery today. I asked them, Minister, on this question, 'If I was to ask him something related to this, what would I do?', and the hands just shot up and it was just great to see. So, Minister, I'll give you the question, at the risk of flooring you now. The question that they asked was—from primary school children— how do we build more new, exciting schools in Wales?

Rhan arall o'r cwricwlwm newydd a'r sgiliau craidd yr ydym yn ceisio eu datblygu yn ein pobl ifanc yw hyder. Mae'n ymwneud â phethau cymhleth a sylfaenol iawn, ond mae a wnelo hefyd â phlant hyderus a chreadigol sy'n barod i godi eu llais a chymryd rhan. Yn aml, gallwch ddweud pan fyddwch yn cerdded i mewn i ystafell ddosbarth ac maent yn sgwrsio â'i gilydd—yn ymddwyn yn dda, ond yn sgwrsio.

Cawsom ysgol gynradd Bryncethin i fyny yn yr oriel heddiw. Gofynnais iddynt, Weinidog, mewn perthynas â'r cwestiwn hwn, 'Pe bawn yn gofyn rhywbeth iddo sy'n ymwneud â hyn, beth fyddwn i'n ei wneud?', a saethodd y dwylo i fyny, ac roedd yn wych gweld hynny. Felly, Weinidog, rwyf am ofyn y cwestiwn i chi, er y bydd efallai'n eich llorio chi. Y cwestiwn y gwnaethant ei ofyn—hyn gan blant ysgol gynradd—oedd sut yr ydym yn adeiladu mwy o ysgolion newydd, cyffrous yng Nghymru?

Fantastic. Well, one of the opportunities that I hope that Bryncethin and other schools will take up is the sustainable schools challenge fund, which I launched recently, which is an opportunity to build schools on a pilot basis using natural materials—so, wood, stone—and to do that designing them with the young people and staff in schools, as a real curriculum opportunity. I think many of us have been to the first net-zero school in Wales, which is South Point primary in the Vale of Glamorgan, and have seen there the QR codes around the building, which explain the story of the building to the young people as a teaching tool: why is it built in this way? How does it operate? What is its environmental impact? I think that's a real opportunity for us in bringing the curriculum together with questions around the school estate. But a fantastic question from Bryncethin primary.

Gwych. Un o’r cyfleoedd y gobeithiaf y bydd ysgol Bryncethin ac ysgolion eraill yn manteisio arnynt yw’r gronfa her ysgolion cynaliadwy, a lansiwyd gennyf yn ddiweddar, sy’n gyfle i adeiladu ysgolion ar sail cynllun peilot gan ddefnyddio deunyddiau naturiol—felly pren, cerrig—a gwneud hynny gan eu dylunio gyda'r bobl ifanc a staff mewn ysgolion, fel cyfle cwricwlaidd gwirioneddol. Credaf fod llawer ohonom wedi bod yn yr ysgol sero net gyntaf yng Nghymru, sef ysgol gynradd Trwyn y De ym Mro Morgannwg, ac wedi gweld y codau QR yno o amgylch yr adeilad, sy’n egluro hanes yr adeilad i’r bobl ifanc fel offeryn addysgu: pam ei fod wedi'i adeiladu yn y ffordd hon? Sut y mae'n gweithredu? Beth yw ei effaith amgylcheddol? Credaf fod hwnnw'n gyfle gwirioneddol i ni ddod â'r cwricwlwm ynghyd â chwestiynau ynghylch yr ystad ysgolion. Ond cwestiwn gwych gan ysgol gynradd Bryncethin.

13:55
Her Ysgolion Cynaliadwy
Sustainable Schools Challenge

4. Beth yw disgwyliad Llywodraeth Cymru o ran categori iaith y ddwy ysgol arloesol newydd dan ei her ysgolion cynaliadwy? OQ58540

4. What are the Welsh Government's expectations regarding the language category of the two new innovative schools under its sustainable schools challenge? OQ58540

Mae her yr ysgolion cynaliadwy yn canolbwyntio ar gynaliadwyedd drwy arloesi a chydweithio. Gan y rhagwelir y bydd prosiectau arfaethedig o fewn rhaglen buddsoddi ysgolion a nodwyd gan awdurdodau lleol, rydym yn disgwyl i amcanion allweddol rhaglen cymunedau cynaliadwy ar gyfer dysgu gael eu hystyried hefyd, y mae hybu'r iaith Gymraeg wrth gwrs yn un ohonyn nhw.

The sustainable schools challenge focuses on sustainability through innovation and collaboration. As proposed projects are anticipated to be within local authorities' identified school investment programme, we expect the key objectives of the sustainable communities for learning programme also to be considered, and of course promoting the Welsh language is one of those.

Diolch, Weinidog. Yn sicr, fe fyddwn ni yn gofyn ichi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod y ddwy ysgol hon yn rhai Cymraeg neu yn rai fydd yn dod yn ysgolion Cymraeg. Yn amlwg, mae'n allweddol bwysig. Roedden ni'n trafod wythnos diwethaf yr adroddiad 'Cymraeg 2050' a'r angen am fuddsoddi mewn ysgolion cyfrwng Cymraeg os ydyn ni am gyrraedd y nod o filiwn o siaradwyr. Ond, ar yr un pryd, a ninnau mewn argyfwng hinsawdd, byddech hefyd yn disgwyl bod pob ysgol newydd, nid dim ond y ddwy newydd hon, gyda chynaliadwyedd yn ganolog iddynt. Byddwch yn ymwybodol, dwi'n siŵr, fod cynlluniau ar gyfer safle newydd i Ysgol Gynradd Gymraeg Llyn-y-Forwyn yng Nglynrhedynog wedi ei gyflwyno gan gyngor Rhondda Cynon Taf. Heb os, mae dirfawr angen adeilad newydd ar yr ysgol hon, ac mae'r cynlluniau i'w croesawu. Ond rhaid imi fynegi pryder bod y cynlluniau â cheir yn ganolog iddi, gan nodi y bydd ardal gollwng benodol ar y safle, 30 o lefydd parcio ar gyfer staff a 40 o lefydd parcio ychwanegol wedi'u neilltuo ar gyfer rhieni yn ystod amserau gollwng a chasglu. Cyferbynnwch hyn â 24 o lefydd parcio beiciau a 12 lle ar gyfer parcio sgwter. Sut, felly, y byddwch yn sicrhau bod pob ysgol newydd yn adlewyrchu blaenoriaethau'r Llywodraeth o ran yr iaith a chynaliadwyedd?

Thank you, Minister. Certainly, I will be asking you to commit to ensuring that these two schools are Welsh-medium schools or ones that will become Welsh-medium schools. Clearly, it is vitally important. We discussed last week the 'Cymraeg 2050' report and the need for investment in Welsh-medium schools if we are to reach that target of a million Welsh speakers. But, at the same time, bearing in mind that we're facing a climate crisis, one would expect that every new school, not just these two new schools, would have sustainability at their heart. You'll be aware, I'm sure, that plans for a new site for Ysgol Gynradd Gymraeg Llyn-y-Forwyn in Glynrhedynog have been put forward by Rhondda Cynon Taf council. There is no doubt that the school needs a new building, and these plans are to be very much welcomed. But I must express a concern that the plans have cars as a central component, noting that there will be a specific drop-off point on the site, 30 parking spaces for staff and 40 additional parking spaces allocated for parents during drop-off and pick-up time. Contrast this with 24 bike parking spaces and 12 spaces for scooters. How, therefore, will you ensure that every new school reflects the Government's priorities in terms of the language and sustainability?

Dwi'n gobeithio'n fawr iawn bod un o'r ysgolion, o leiaf, sy'n ennill y gystadleuaeth hon yn ysgol cyfrwng Cymraeg. Mae'n dibynnu ar ba gynigion a ddaw i law, wrth gwrs, ond dyna beth fyddai fy ngobaith i, yn sicr, am resymau amlwg. 

O ran yr her roedd yr Aelod yn cynnig am ysgolion yn y dyfodol, fel y bydd hi eisoes yn gwybod, mae gofyniad ar unrhyw ysgol newydd sy'n cael ei gynnig i'w hariannu'n rhannol gan Lywodraeth Cymru—mae gofyniad eu bod nhw'n sero net o ran carbon yn y dyfodol, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys hefyd safonau uchel o ran active travel a mynediad at yr ysgol. Felly, mae'r canllawiau hynny eisoes yn eu lle; maen nhw'n gyhoeddus, ac mae cyfle i'r Aelod gael golwg arnyn nhw, ac, os oes ganddi unrhyw awgrymiadau pellach, byddwn i'n hapus i'w clywed nhw.  

Well, I'm very eager that one of the schools that's successful here would be a Welsh-medium school. It depends on the applications made, but that would be my hope, for obvious reasons.

In terms of the challenge that the Member posed in terms of future schools, as she knows, there is a requirement on any new school that's to be partially funded by Welsh Government that they would be net zero in terms of carbon for the future, and that includes high targets in terms of active travel and access to the school. That guidance is already in place; it's in the public domain, and the Member is welcome to have a look, and, if she has any further comments, she's welcome to give them.

Minister, the sustainable schools challenge is aimed at upgrading existing school infrastructure to become more environmentally sustainable, but I'm sure you will be aware of the shocking fire that took place at Manorbier primary school in my constituency on Monday, which has caused massive damage to the school building. Thankfully, no-one was hurt. This is down, in part, to the fantastic leadership of headteacher Mrs Sharon Davies and her staff, making sure all staff and pupils were safe, and I'm sure you'll join me in thanking them for their work in this. But can you outline what support is being made available to Pembrokeshire County Council to ensure that disruption to pupils' learning is at a minimum? And what support is available to them as they repair and rebuild this school? Diolch. 

Weinidog, nod yr her ysgolion cynaliadwy yw uwchraddio’r seilwaith ysgolion presennol i'w wneud yn fwy amgylcheddol gynaliadwy, ond rwy’n siŵr y byddwch yn ymwybodol o’r tân ofnadwy a fu yn ysgol gynradd Maenorbŷr yn fy etholaeth i ddydd Llun, a achosodd ddifrod enfawr i adeilad yr ysgol. Diolch byth, ni chafodd neb ei anafu. Mae hyn, yn rhannol, oherwydd arweinyddiaeth wych y pennaeth, Mrs Sharon Davies, a’i staff, a wnaeth yn siŵr fod yr holl staff a'r disgyblion yn ddiogel, ac rwy’n siŵr y gwnewch chi ymuno â mi i ddiolch iddynt am eu gwaith yn hyn o beth. Ond a wnewch chi nodi pa gymorth sydd ar gael i Gyngor Sir Penfro i sicrhau y ceir cyn lleied â phosibl o darfu ar ddysgu disgyblion? A pha gymorth sydd ar gael iddynt wrth iddynt atgyweirio ac ailadeiladu’r ysgol? Diolch.

I did see the incident at Manorbier, and I pay tribute to the work of the school leadership and staff in protecting the young people and making sure that the appropriate arrangements were in place. There are ongoing discussions between the Government and local authorities about what we can do to support them where there are particular examples that arise in addition to the capital arrangements already available to authorities. And I'm sure this will be part of those discussions already under way. 

Gwelais y digwyddiad ym Maenorbŷr, ac rwy'n talu teyrnged i waith arweinwyr a staff yr ysgol yn diogelu'r bobl ifanc a sicrhau bod y trefniadau priodol ar waith. Mae trafodaethau'n mynd rhagddynt rhwng y Llywodraeth ac awdurdodau lleol ynglŷn â’r hyn y gallwn ei wneud i’w cefnogi lle ceir enghreifftiau penodol yn codi sy'n ychwanegol at y trefniadau cyfalaf sydd eisoes ar gael i awdurdodau. Ac rwy’n siŵr y bydd hyn yn rhan o’r trafodaethau sydd eisoes yn mynd rhagddynt.

Cod Addysg Cydberthynas a Rhywioldeb
Relationships and Sexuality Education Code

5. Pa gymorth y mae’r Llywodraeth yn ei roi i ysgolion Arfon a'r awdurdod lleol wrth iddynt gyflwyno’r cod addysg cydberthynas a rhywioldeb newydd? OQ58513

5. What support is the Government providing to schools in Arfon and the local authority as they introduce the new relationships and sexuality education code? OQ58513

Rŷn ni’n parhau i weithio’n agos gyda Chyngor Gwynedd a gyda chonsortiwm GwE i sicrhau bod ysgolion yn Arfon yn cael eu cefnogi’n llawn i weithredu’r cod addysg cydberthynas a rhywioldeb, gan gynnwys cyfleoedd dysgu proffesiynol ac adnoddau. Rŷn ni wedi cyhoeddi pecyn adnoddau addysg cydberthynas a rhywioldeb ar Hwb i gefnogi ysgolion i drafod y mater sensitif hwn gyda rhieni a gofalwyr.

We continue to work closely with Gwynedd Council and the GwE consortium to ensure schools in Arfon are fully supported to implement the RSE framework, including professional learning opportunities and resources. We have published an RSE toolkit on Hwb to support schools to engage with parents and carers about this sensitive issue.

Rydych chi'n ymwybodol iawn o'r camwybodaeth sy'n cael ei ledaenu gan rai yn fy etholaeth i a thu hwnt i hynny am y cod. Mae'r ffug newyddion mewn perig o danseilio'r polisi a'r gwaith o gyflwyno addysg cydberthynas a rhywioldeb, polisi rydym ni ar y meinciau yma yn gyfan gwbl gefnogol ohono fo. Yn y cyfamser, wrth gwrs, mae yna bryder nad ydy'r adnoddau a'r deunyddiau dysgu newydd wedi bod yn cyrraedd yr ysgolion yn brydlon. Mae angen y deunyddiau newydd yma i gefnogi'r cod newydd, ac mae hyn wedi creu rhywfaint o wagle ar gyfer lledaenu'r ffug wybodaeth. Dwi'n falch o glywed bod pethau yn symud ymlaen efo hynny, ond fyddwn i’n licio cael sicrwydd gennych chi y prynhawn yma fod yna amserlen bendant mewn lle ar gyfer cyflwyno digonedd o'r adnoddau dysgu yma sydd eu hangen, yn ychwanegol i'r hyn sydd wedi cael ei ddarparu'n barod. So, fedrwch roi ryw syniad o bryd fydd hynny'n digwydd?

You will be highly aware of the misinformation that's being spread by some in my constituency and beyond, indeed, on this code. This fake news is at risk of undermining the policy and the work of introducing relationships and sexuality education, a policy that we on these benches are entirely supportive of. In the meantime, of course, there is concern that the new materials and resources haven't been arriving in schools in time. We need these resources to support the new code, and this has created something of a vacuum for the spread of this misinformation. I'm pleased to hear that progress is being made there, but I would like an assurance from you this afternoon that there is a definite timetable in place for introducing sufficient amounts of these teaching resources that are required, in addition to what has already been provided. So, can you give us some idea as to when that will happen?

14:00

Wel, mae e eisoes yn digwydd. Rŷn ni mewn proses barhaus o ddarparu adnoddau cynyddol yn y maes hwn ac mewn rhannau eraill o'r cwricwlwm hefyd. Mae'r adnoddau sydd eisoes ar gael wedi'u cyhoeddi ar Hwb, sydd ar gael i bob ysgol. Dyw pob ysgol, dwi ddim yn credu, ddim yn dewis cael mynediad ato fe, ond mae'r adnoddau yno ar-lein i bawb. Ond beth efallai fyddai'n ddefnyddiol byddai i mi ysgrifennu at bob un Aelod yn rhoi linciau i'r rheini, fel eich bod chi'n gallu, fel Aelodau, os ŷch chi'n dymuno, rhannu'r rheini ymhellach gydag etholwyr lleol a phreswylwyr lleol sy'n dod i gysylltiad â chi, i sicrhau ein bod ni i gyd yn rhannu'r wybodaeth iawn am y cwricwlwm.

Well, it is already happening. We are in an ongoing process of providing increasing amounts of resources in this field and on other parts of the curriculum too. The resources that are already available have been published on Hwb, which is available to every school. I don't think that every school chooses to access that, but the resources are available online to everyone. But what might be useful would be for me to write to every Member sharing links to those, so that you as Members, if you wish to do so, can share them with local constituents and residents who contact you, to ensure that we all share the correct information about the curriculum.

I'm afraid to say that this Welsh Labour Government's deliverance of social policy on children and young people in Wales is a classic case of the Government pandering to the woke warriors of this world, unfortunately. [Interruption.] And where you may not like to hear this, Minister, but this is the reality, sadly. Who are the state to dictate to children what's best for them? It's not yours, it's not mine, it's not anyone's business—

Yn anffodus, mae arnaf ofn fod y modd y mae Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru yn cyflwyno polisi cymdeithasol i blant a phobl ifanc yng Nghymru yn achos clasurol o'r Llywodraeth yn plesio'r rhyfelwyr woke yn ein plith. [Torri ar draws.] Ac efallai nad ydych yn hoffi clywed hyn, Weinidog, ond dyma'r realiti yn anffodus. Pwy yw'r wladwriaeth i ddweud wrth blant beth sydd orau iddynt? Nid eich lle chi yw gwneud hynny, nid fy lle i yw gwneud hynny, nid yw'n fusnes i neb—

Can we just allow the Member to carry on with his question, please? Can we have some quiet?

A gawn ni ganiatáu i'r Aelod barhau â'i gwestiwn, os gwelwch yn dda? A gawn ni rywfaint o dawelwch?

Thank you, Llywydd. It's not yours, it's not mine, or anyone's business other than the parents. They should be deciding what sort of education their child receives and whether they want to engage with sex education, and not you, Minister. How on earth do you expect children as young as five to even understand or begin to comprehend this sort of information? Parents the length and breadth of Wales are flabbergasted by this Government's barmy implementation of this policy. And looking at some of the names of the books on offer under this policy for children aged five to seven, called Jacob's New DressPink is for BoysOliver Button is a Sissy, and Princess Kevin, to name but a few, is this really the direction we want to be heading in, Minister? And what sort of message is this giving to parents in Wales who are anxious to see their children build their academic rigour rather than their level of wokeness? And finally, to ask a simple question: yes or no, do you have faith in parents that they know best for their children?

Diolch, Lywydd. Nid eich lle chi yw gwneud hynny, nid fy lle i yw gwneud hynny, nid yw'n fusnes i neb ar wahân i'r rhieni. Hwy ddylai fod yn penderfynu pa fath o addysg y mae eu plentyn yn ei chael ac a ydynt am ymgysylltu ag addysg rhyw, ac nid chi, Weinidog. Sut ar y ddaear y disgwyliwch i blant mor ifanc â phump oed ddeall neu ddechrau deall y math yma o wybodaeth? Mae rhieni ar hyd a lled Cymru yn rhyfeddu at y ffaith bod y Llywodraeth hon yn gweithredu'r polisi hwn. Ac o edrych ar rai o enwau'r llyfrau sy'n cael eu cynnig o dan y polisi hwn i blant rhwng pump a saith oed, o'r enw Jacob's New DressPink is for Boys, Oliver Button is a Sissy, a Princess Kevin, i enwi ond ychydig, ai dyma'r cyfeiriad yr ydym eisiau anelu ato mewn gwirionedd, Weinidog? A pha fath o neges y mae hyn yn ei roi i rieni yng Nghymru sy'n awyddus i weld eu plant yn adeiladu ar eu deallusrwydd academaidd yn hytrach na pha mor woke ydynt? Ac yn olaf, i ofyn cwestiwn syml: oes neu nac oes, a oes gennych chi ffydd fod rhieni'n gwybod beth sydd orau i'w plant?

The mischaracterisation of the curriculum for political advantage is incredibly disreputable. He is the second Member from his benches to use this opportunity—

Mae camddisgrifio'r cwricwlwm er mantais wleidyddol yn anhygoel o amharchus. Ef yw'r ail Aelod o'i feinciau i ddefnyddio'r cyfle hwn—

The Minister doesn't need any help, I don't think, from his backbenchers on this. I'll allow the Minister to continue in some silence, please.

Nid wyf yn credu bod y Gweinidog angen unrhyw help gan aelodau'r meinciau cefn ar hyn. Rwyf am ganiatáu i'r Gweinidog barhau mewn tawelwch, os gwelwch yn dda.

—to traduce the work that teachers are doing across schools to make sure our young people are safe, healthy and protected. I am committed to that and I'm disappointed to hear that he is not.

—i bardduo'r gwaith y mae athrawon yn ei wneud ar draws ysgolion i sicrhau bod ein pobl ifanc yn ddiogel ac yn iach. Rwy'n ymroddedig i hynny ac rwy'n siomedig o glywed nad ydyw ef.

Ysgol Gynradd yr Eglwys yng Nghymru Santes Monica
St. Monica's Church in Wales Primary School

6. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y gwaith gwella yn Ysgol Gynradd yr Eglwys yng Nghymru Santes Monica, Caerdydd? OQ58538

6. Will the Minister provide an update on the improvement works at St. Monica's Church in Wales Primary School, Cardiff? OQ58538

The local authority has advised that a contractor has been appointed and work commenced onsite during the summer holiday period. [Interruption.] Works are expected to continue into 2023.

Yn ôl yr awdurdod lleol mae contractiwr wedi cael ei benodi ac mae gwaith wedi dechrau ar y safle yn ystod gwyliau'r haf. [Torri ar draws.] Mae disgwyl i'r gwaith barhau i mewn i 2023.

Thank you, Minister. I'm grateful for your response. I bring this question before you in addition to our previous correspondence because I simply believe what is happening at St Monica's is nothing short of scandalous, and an issue that Cardiff Council is simply not resolving. [Interruption.] The situation is dire; the reception and year 1—

Diolch. Rwy'n ddiolchgar am eich ymateb. Rwy'n gofyn y cwestiwn hwn yn ychwanegol at ein gohebiaeth flaenorol oherwydd rwy'n credu bod yr hyn sy'n digwydd yn ysgol Santes Monica yn sgandal, ac nid yw Cyngor Caerdydd yn datrys y broblem. [Torri ar draws.] Mae'r sefyllfa'n enbyd; mae dosbarthiadau derbyn a blwyddyn 1—

Sorry to cut across you—it's not your fault, Joel James; it's the fault of backbenchers from the Government's own backbench, and others, continuing the last question in a discussion between them. They can do that outside of the Chamber, please. I want to hear what the Minister and the person asking the question has to say.

Mae'n ddrwg gennyf dorri ar eich traws—nid chi sydd ar fai, Joel James; bai Aelodau meinciau cefn y Llywodraeth ei hun ydyw, ac eraill, sy'n parhau i drafod y cwestiwn olaf rhyngddynt. Gallant wneud hynny y tu allan i'r Siambr, os gwelwch yn dda. Rwyf eisiau clywed beth sydd gan y Gweinidog a'r person sy'n gofyn y cwestiwn i'w ddweud.

Thank you, Llywydd. The situation is dire; the reception and year 1 classes are squeezed into the school hall, which not only has inadequate toilet facilities, but ultimately renders the school hall completely out of action, meaning that the entire school no longer has PE lessons if the weather is bad. The scaffolding around the school, which has been in place for four years without any work being carried out on the site, has reduced the outdoor playground to such an extent that it is only just viable for an emergency evacuation point, and, again, there is no room whatsoever for PE lessons to be undertaken.

Although some work has now started, as you've alluded to, on the auxiliary buildings, Cardiff Council continues to provide no timeline for works on the main school building, and it is deteriorating at an alarming rate. Indeed, on rainy days, water runs down the interior walls, carpets are continuously wet and there's extensive black mould on nearly every wall. I feel so devastated that, in the capital city of this country, children, teachers and their headteacher have to work in such an environment, and they feel powerless to do anything about it. Minister, in the strongest terms possible, I would stress to you the need for your personal intervention in this matter. The Welsh Government cannot simply rely on Cardiff Council to solve it, because they seem incapable of doing so. Therefore, Minister, what assurances will you provide to the children and the teachers at St Monica's school that you will personally deal with this matter? Thank you.

Diolch, Lywydd. Mae'r sefyllfa'n enbyd; mae dosbarthiadau derbyn a blwyddyn 1 yn cael eu gwasgu i mewn i neuadd yr ysgol, sydd nid yn unig heb gyfleusterau toiled digonol, ond sydd yn y pen draw yn golygu nad oes modd defnyddio neuadd yr ysgol, sy'n golygu nad yw'r ysgol gyfan yn cael gwersi addysg gorfforol mwyach os yw'r tywydd yn wael. Mae'r sgaffaldiau o amgylch yr ysgol, sydd wedi bod yno ers pedair blynedd heb i unrhyw waith gael ei wneud ar y safle, wedi lleihau maint y maes chwarae awyr agored i'r fath raddau fel nad yw ond yn ymarferol ar gyfer gwacáu mewn argyfwng, ac unwaith eto, nid oes lle o gwbl i gynnal gwersi addysg gorfforol.

Er bod rhywfaint o waith ar yr adeiladau ategol wedi dechrau erbyn hyn, fel y nodwyd gennych, nid yw Cyngor Caerdydd wedi darparu unrhyw amserlen ar gyfer y gwaith ar brif adeilad yr ysgol, ac mae'n dirywio ar raddfa frawychus. Yn wir, ar ddyddiau glawog, mae dŵr yn llifo i lawr y waliau mewnol, mae carpedi'n wlyb yn barhaus ac mae llwydni du helaeth ar bron bob wal. Rwy'n siomedig iawn fod yn rhaid i blant, athrawon a'u pennaeth weithio mewn amgylchedd o'r fath ym mhrifddinas y wlad hon, a'u bod yn teimlo'n ddi-rym i wneud unrhyw beth yn ei gylch. Weinidog, hoffwn bwysleisio yn y termau cryfaf posibl fod angen i chi ymyrryd yn bersonol yn y mater hwn. Ni all Llywodraeth Cymru ddibynnu ar Gyngor Caerdydd i'w ddatrys, oherwydd ymddengys eu bod yn analluog i wneud hynny. Felly, Weinidog, pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi i'r plant a'r athrawon yn ysgol Santes Monica y byddwch yn mynd i'r afael â'r mater hwn yn bersonol? Diolch.

14:05

The health, safety and well-being of learners and staff and the whole school community are obviously of paramount importance. The governing bodies of schools and local authorities are responsible for health and safety in schools and have a duty to ensure the safety of learners and staff at all times. The Member has written to me on two occasions in relation to this, and I've asked Welsh Government officials to request an update on the progress of the project, in response to that. Officials from the authority have been working closely with the school regarding the works. Following consultation and surveys over the summer, works to the early learning and outbuilding area, in particular, have been identified as a priority, and work has started over the summer holiday. Works to the main building and additional remediation works are due to commence during the autumn term. I hope he finds that update helpful, but I would suggest to him that he maintains his contact with Cardiff Council in relation to that particular situation.

Mae iechyd, diogelwch a llesiant dysgwyr a staff a chymuned yr ysgol gyfan yn amlwg o'r pwys mwyaf. Mae cyrff llywodraethu ysgolion ac awdurdodau lleol yn gyfrifol am iechyd a diogelwch mewn ysgolion ac mae dyletswydd arnynt i sicrhau diogelwch dysgwyr a staff bob amser. Mae'r Aelod wedi ysgrifennu ataf ar ddau achlysur mewn perthynas â hyn, ac rwyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion Llywodraeth Cymru geisio diweddariad ar gynnydd y prosiect mewn ymateb i hynny. Bu swyddogion yr awdurdod yn gweithio'n agos gyda'r ysgol mewn perthynas â'r gwaith. Yn dilyn ymgynghoriad ac arolygon dros yr haf, mae gwaith i'r ardal dysgu cynnar ac adeilad allanol, yn arbennig, wedi cael eu nodi fel blaenoriaeth, ac mae'r gwaith wedi dechrau dros wyliau'r haf. Bydd gwaith i'r prif adeilad a gwaith atgyweirio ychwanegol yn dechrau yn ystod tymor yr hydref. Rwy'n gobeithio bod y diweddariad hwnnw o gymorth, ond byddwn yn awgrymu ei fod yn cadw mewn cysylltiad â Chyngor Caerdydd mewn perthynas â'r sefyllfa benodol hon.

Canlyniadau TGAU a Safon Uwch Haf 2022
Summer 2022 GCSE and A-level Results

7. Pa asesiad y mae'r Gweinidog wedi ei wneud o ganlyniadau TGAU a Safon Uwch haf 2022? OQ58512

7. What assessment has the Minister made of the summer 2022 GCSE and A-level results? OQ58512

Reflecting a transition back to established exam standards, results were awarded broadly at the midway point between 2021 and 2019. Our learners demonstrated immense resilience in their performances and, as a testament to this, a record number of young people from Wales will be going to university this year.

Gan adlewyrchu trawsnewid yn ôl i safonau arholiadau sefydledig, dyfarnwyd canlyniadau ar oddeutu'r pwynt hanner ffordd rhwng 2021 a 2019. Dangosodd ein dysgwyr ddycnwch aruthrol yn eu perfformiadau ac yn dystiolaeth o hynny, bydd y nifer uchaf erioed o bobl ifanc o Gymru yn mynd i'r brifysgol eleni.

Can I thank you for that answer, Minister? I visited all the secondary schools in Swansea East on GCSE results day, and I visited those that had A-level results on A-level results day. They were happy with the results, but, as the Minister knows, there were problems with some of the questions set. He knows this because I've raised it with him on several occasions. What discussions has the Minister had with Qualifications Wales and the WJEC to ensure that problems with examination questions do not happen again this year?

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Bûm yn ymweld â phob ysgol uwchradd yn Nwyrain Abertawe ar ddiwrnod y canlyniadau TGAU, ac fe ymwelais â'r rhai a gafodd ganlyniadau Safon Uwch ar ddiwrnod canlyniadau Safon Uwch. Roeddent yn hapus gyda'r canlyniadau, ond fel y mae'r Gweinidog yn gwybod, roedd problemau gyda rhai o'r cwestiynau a osodwyd. Mae'n gwybod hyn oherwydd rwyf wedi codi'r mater gydag ef ar sawl achlysur. Pa drafodaethau a gafodd y Gweinidog gyda Cymwysterau Cymru a CBAC i sicrhau na fydd problemau'n codi gyda chwestiynau arholiad eto eleni?

It's a good question, and I have continuing discussions with both Qualifications Wales and WJEC in relation to some of the issues that arose over the course of the summer exam series. He will remember, of course, that both Qualifications Wales and WJEC wrote to centres in advance of results days explaining what had happened, what their reviews had revealed and the steps that they were taking in order to respond to those, which included altering marking schemes and grade boundaries in relation to papers that were affected. There is some element of this that happens in many years, unfortunately. Of course, I accept that this year, given the heightened anxiety of learners, those challenges will have been more keenly felt by young people. I would want to be very clear, though, in reassuring them that these steps put in place were able to reflect the situations that arose and able to compensate for that in the marking schemes, giving fair outcomes to all learners. But, obviously, as in each of these years, which have been pretty unique in how we've responded to COVID, there are things to learn for future years, and I am confident those lessons will have been learned for future years.

Mae'n gwestiwn da, ac rwyf wedi parhau i drafod gyda Cymwysterau Cymru a CBAC mewn perthynas â rhai o'r materion a gododd yn ystod y gyfres o arholiadau'r haf. Bydd yn cofio, wrth gwrs, i Cymwysterau Cymru a CBAC ysgrifennu at ganolfannau cyn y dyddiau canlyniadau i esbonio'r hyn a ddigwyddodd, yr hyn yr oedd eu hadolygiadau wedi'i ddatgelu a'r camau yr oeddent yn eu cymryd i ymateb i'r rheini, a oedd yn cynnwys newid cynlluniau marcio a ffiniau graddau'r papurau yr effeithiwyd arnynt. Mae rhyw elfen o hyn yn digwydd mewn nifer o flynyddoedd yn anffodus. Wrth gwrs, rwy'n derbyn eleni, o ystyried gorbryder dwysach dysgwyr, y bydd yr heriau hynny wedi cael eu teimlo'n waeth gan bobl ifanc. Er hynny, rwyf eisiau bod yn glir iawn wrth sicrhau bod y camau hyn a roddwyd ar waith wedi gallu adlewyrchu'r sefyllfaoedd a gododd ac wedi gallu gwneud iawn am hynny yn y cynlluniau marcio, gan roi canlyniadau teg i bob dysgwr. Ond yn amlwg, fel ym mhob un o'r blynyddoedd hyn, sydd wedi bod yn eithaf unigryw yn y ffordd yr ydym wedi ymateb i COVID, mae yna bethau i'w dysgu ar gyfer blynyddoedd i ddod, ac rwy'n hyderus y bydd y gwersi hynny wedi'u dysgu ar gyfer blynyddoedd i ddod.

Minister, we know that many educationalists have, for years, called for a focus on the science, technology, engineering and mathematics subjects. In Swansea this year, maths was the most popular A-level subject and acknowledged as one of the toughest subjects. No fewer than 59.6 per cent achieved A* or A with 85.7 per cent attaining a C grade or above. This is an exceptional result. What can we learn from this success as we seek to inspire young people to pursue the STEM subjects?

Weinidog, gwyddom fod llawer o addysgwyr, ers blynyddoedd, wedi galw am ffocws ar y pynciau gwyddoniaeth, technoleg, peirianneg a mathemateg. Yn Abertawe eleni, mathemateg oedd y pwnc Safon Uwch mwyaf poblogaidd ac fe'i cydnabuwyd fel un o'r pynciau anoddaf. Fe gafodd 59.6 y cant A* neu A ac fe lwyddodd 85.7 y cant i ennill gradd C neu uwch. Mae hwn yn ganlyniad eithriadol. Beth y gallwn ei ddysgu o'r llwyddiant hwn wrth inni geisio ysbrydoli pobl ifanc i ddilyn y pynciau STEM?

Absolutely. We are pleased to see young people taking up STEM subjects and will do everything we can to continue doing that. There has been a challenge in terms of the gender gap of young people taking up STEM subjects, but the work that we have been doing through our partners has helped to address that to some extent. The 'Talented Women for a Successful Wales' report gave us some indications about how best we could try and close the gender gap in STEM, and those actions are actions that the Government is taking forward. But I congratulate everybody who had good results in maths and every other subject this summer. I think it's an incredible testament to their resilience, their creativity, and it's a thing to celebrate.

Yn sicr. Rydym yn falch o weld pobl ifanc yn ymgymryd â phynciau STEM a byddwn yn gwneud popeth yn ein gallu i barhau i wneud hynny. Mae her wedi bod o ran y bwlch rhwng y rhywiau ymhlith pobl ifanc sy'n gwneud pynciau STEM, ond mae'r gwaith y buom yn ei wneud drwy ein partneriaid wedi helpu i fynd i'r afael â hynny i ryw raddau. Darparodd adroddiad 'Menywod Dawnus ar gyfer Cymru Lwyddiannus' rai argymhellion inni mewn perthynas â'r ffordd orau i geisio cau'r bwlch rhwng y rhywiau ym maes STEM ac mae'r Llywodraeth yn gweithredu'r camau hynny. Ond hoffwn longyfarch pawb a gafodd ganlyniadau da mewn mathemateg a phob pwnc arall yr haf hwn. Rwy'n credu ei fod yn brawf anhygoel o'u gwytnwch, eu creadigrwydd, ac mae'n beth i'w ddathlu.

14:10
Bwlch Tlodi
Poverty Gap

8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar fentrau penodol Llywodraeth Cymru i leihau'r bwlch tlodi o ran cyrhaeddiad myfyrwyr yn dilyn y pandemig? OQ58537

8. Will the Minister make a statement on specific Welsh Government initiatives to narrow the poverty gap in student attainment following the pandemic? OQ58537

Yes. My statement to the Chamber in March and the speech that I gave to the Bevan Foundation in June set out my intention to tackle the impact of poverty on attainment, and I've put in place a range of measures to realise this objective, from introducing attainment champions to exploring ways to incentivise teachers to work in the most disadvantaged areas.

Gwnaf. Roedd fy natganiad i'r Siambr ym mis Mawrth a'r araith a roddais i Sefydliad Bevan ym mis Mehefin yn nodi fy mwriad i fynd i'r afael ag effaith tlodi ar gyrhaeddiad, ac rwyf wedi rhoi ystod o fesurau ar waith i wireddu'r amcan hwn, o gyflwyno hyrwyddwyr cyrhaeddiad i archwilio ffyrdd o gymell athrawon i weithio yn yr ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig.

Thank you very much for that response, Minister. I very much welcome the statement that the Minister made some months ago, and it would be useful to hear an update from the Minister on the progress that's being made, to ensure that children and young people from all backgrounds have an equality of opportunity to progress their education. We all know and we're all aware that children who come from particularly difficult and deprived backgrounds have suffered during the pandemic, and have seen that attainment gap widen. You were very bullish, if you don't mind me saying so, Minister, that you are able to narrow this attainment gap in the future, and I hope that your optimism is well placed. But can you provide us with further updates to ensure that all of us here understand the work that the Welsh Government is doing to narrow the attainment gap, and to ensure that everything is done that's possible to be done to ensure that children that we all represent who come from the most difficult backgrounds have the opportunity that we would all want them to have in achieving their potential?

Diolch yn fawr iawn am yr ymateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Rwy'n croesawu'r datganiad a wnaeth y Gweinidog rai misoedd yn ôl, a byddai'n ddefnyddiol clywed diweddariad gan y Gweinidog am y cynnydd sy'n cael ei wneud, er mwyn sicrhau bod plant a phobl ifanc o bob cefndir yn cael cyfle cyfartal i symud ymlaen gyda'u haddysg. Rydym i gyd yn gwybod ac rydym i gyd yn ymwybodol fod plant sy'n dod o gefndiroedd arbennig o anodd a difreintiedig wedi dioddef yn ystod y pandemig, ac rydym wedi gweld y bwlch cyrhaeddiad hwnnw'n ehangu. Rydych yn ffyddiog iawn, os nad oes ots gennych imi ddweud, Weinidog, y byddwch yn gallu lleihau'r bwlch cyrhaeddiad hwn yn y dyfodol, a gobeithio y caiff eich optimistiaeth ei wireddu. Ond a allwch chi roi diweddariadau pellach i ni i sicrhau bod pob un ohonom yma'n deall y gwaith y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i leihau'r bwlch cyrhaeddiad, a sicrhau bod popeth yn cael ei wneud i sicrhau bod y plant yr ydym yn eu cynrychioli sy'n dod o'r cefndiroedd anoddaf yn cael y cyfle y byddai pawb ohonom eisiau iddynt ei gael er mwyn iddynt allu cyflawni eu potensial?

I couldn't agree more with the Member. Our strategy's called 'High Standards and Aspirations for All', and that's to recognise that every single learner, regardless of their background, is entitled to have a school system that encourages their aspiration and gives them the best possible opportunity at fulfilling their potential.

The range of measures that I set out, both in March and June, support teachers in developing their practice to support disadvantaged learners: some of that is about initial teacher education; some of it is about our new professional learning programmes; some of it is about a focus at a leadership level, on leadership strategies in schools, to support teachers; and some of it is about getting teachers to work in the schools that most need the skills of the best teachers. But there are also a number of interventions specifically to support learners directly: some of that's about reading and oracy, and you will recall me talking about the language and literacy programme for an additional 2,000 young people, which Bangor University's working with us on, to support communication skills and reading skills. But there are some challenging discussions that we will need to have as well around the practice of setting in schools and at which point that is most appropriate. There's a broader discussion, I think, for us to have in relation to that.

The key, I think, in relation to both sets of measures that I set out is that they're a whole-system approach. It's a focus from early years, through to the schools and through further education, higher education and lifelong learning, and that common objective across the system, I think, is the key to making progress in this area. The school system, the education system, cannot do this on its own, but there are certainly things that we can do to contribute to closing the attainment gap. I am planning on bringing forward a statement before the end of this term, updating Members on where we are in relation to each of these initiatives.

Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr gyda'r Aelod. Enw ein strategaeth yw 'Safonau ac Uchelgeisiau Uchel i Bawb', a hynny i gydnabod bod gan bob dysgwr, ni waeth beth fo'u cefndir, hawl i gael system ysgol sy'n annog eu dyheadau ac sy'n rhoi'r cyfle gorau posibl iddynt gyflawni eu potensial.

Mae'r ystod o fesurau a nodais, ym mis Mawrth a mis Mehefin, yn cynorthwyo athrawon i ddatblygu eu harferion i gefnogi dysgwyr difreintiedig: mae rhywfaint o hynny'n ymwneud ag addysg gychwynnol i athrawon; mae rhywfaint ohono'n ymwneud â'n rhaglenni dysgu proffesiynol newydd; mae rhywfaint ohono'n ymwneud â ffocws ar lefel arweinyddiaeth, ar strategaethau arwain mewn ysgolion, i gefnogi athrawon; ac mae rhywfaint ohono'n ymwneud â chael athrawon i weithio yn yr ysgolion sydd fwyaf o angen sgiliau'r athrawon gorau. Ond mae yna hefyd nifer o ymyriadau penodol i gefnogi dysgwyr yn uniongyrchol: mae rhywfaint o hynny'n ymwneud â darllen a llafaredd, ac fe fyddwch yn cofio imi sôn am y rhaglen iaith a llythrennedd ar gyfer 2,000 o bobl ifanc ychwanegol y mae Prifysgol Bangor yn gweithio gyda ni arni i gefnogi sgiliau cyfathrebu a sgiliau darllen. Ond mae yna rai trafodaethau heriol y bydd angen inni eu cael hefyd ynglŷn â'r arfer o setio mewn ysgolion ac ar ba bwynt y mae hynny'n fwyaf priodol. Rwy'n credu bod yna drafodaeth ehangach i ni ei chael mewn perthynas â hynny.

Yr allwedd, rwy'n credu, mewn perthynas â'r ddwy gyfres o fesurau a nodais yw eu bod yn ddulliau system gyfan. Mae'n ffocws o'r blynyddoedd cynnar, drwodd i'r ysgolion a thrwy addysg bellach, addysg uwch a dysgu gydol oes, ac rwy'n credu mai'r amcan cyffredin hwnnw ar draws y system yw'r allwedd i wneud cynnydd yn y maes hwn. Ni all y system ysgolion, y system addysg, wneud hyn ar ei phen ei hun, ond yn sicr mae yna bethau y gallwn eu gwneud i gyfrannu at gau'r bwlch cyrhaeddiad. Rwy'n bwriadu cyflwyno datganiad cyn diwedd y tymor hwn i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Aelodau am ein sefyllfa mewn perthynas â phob un o'r cynlluniau hyn.

Uniondeb Canlyniadau TGAU a Safon Uwch
The Integrity of GCSE and A-Level Results

9. Sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn sicrhau uniondeb canlyniadau TGAU a Safon Uwch? OQ58539

9. How does the Welsh Government ensure the integrity of GCSE and A-level results? OQ58539

We are continuously working with Qualifications Wales and WJEC to ensure the integrity of all our results. This includes secure, standardised assessments, detailed quality-assured processes and anonymised and monitored marking processes that are applied consistently across Wales. In addition, transparency is maintained throughout the process via regular stakeholder engagement.

Rydym yn gweithio'n barhaus gyda Cymwysterau Cymru a CBAC i sicrhau uniondeb ein holl ganlyniadau. Mae hyn yn cynnwys asesiadau safonedig diogel, prosesau manwl o ansawdd, a phrosesau marcio dienw sy'n cael eu monitro ac sy'n cael eu cymhwyso'n gyson ledled Cymru. Yn ogystal, caiff tryloywder ei gynnal drwy gydol y broses drwy ymgysylltu rheolaidd â rhanddeiliaid.

Can I thank the Minister for his reassuring answer? As a global, forward-thinking nation, harnessing and nurturing our children's abilities to compete in a global market is vital if we are to attract families and employment opportunities into Wales. So, the recent consultation launched by Qualifications Wales, which could put less emphasis on traditional exams from 2025, has caused concern amongst some within the profession that this could put children in Wales at a disadvantage compared to their peers in England and further afield. With staff and pupils still having to adjust to the implementation of a new curriculum, along with potential future employers concerned about the integrity of moving further away from exams than our neighbours and others, how is the Minister going to ensure that children in Wales are an equally attractive prospect to employers as their global counterparts would be?

A gaf fi ddiolch i'r Gweinidog am ei ateb calonogol? Fel cenedl fyd-eang, flaengar, mae harneisio a meithrin galluoedd ein plant i gystadlu mewn marchnad fyd-eang yn hanfodol os ydym am ddenu teuluoedd a chyfleoedd gwaith i Gymru. Felly, mae'r ymgynghoriad diweddar a gafodd ei lansio gan Cymwysterau Cymru, a allai roi llai o bwyslais ar arholiadau traddodiadol o 2025 ymlaen, wedi achosi pryder ymhlith rhai yn y proffesiwn y gallai hyn roi plant yng Nghymru dan anfantais o'u cymharu â'u cyfoedion yn Lloegr a thu hwnt. Gyda staff a disgyblion yn dal i orfod addasu i weithrediad cwricwlwm newydd, ynghyd â'r ffaith bod darpar gyflogwyr y dyfodol yn pryderu am uniondeb symud ymhellach oddi wrth arholiadau na'n cymdogion ac eraill, sut y mae'r Gweinidog am sicrhau y bydd plant yng Nghymru yn gallu cynnig rhywbeth yr un mor ddeniadol i gyflogwyr â'u cymheiriaid yn fyd-eang?

14:15

I don't think that one follows from another. Qualifications Wales is consulting on the role of exams in the future and how qualifications are assessed. I think that it would be wrong of us, having experienced the last two or three years, when there has been a lot of change in our school system around how we approach teaching and assessment, simply to put that to one side without looking at whether there is a case for adjusting the balance in the future, and looking at different ways of examining, by the way.

I think that the important thing at this point is that we lead an ambitious, creative discussion about how we can make sure that young people in the future have access to the best qualifications and are assessed in the most appropriate way, reflecting the principles of the curriculum, that makes sure they continue to be acknowledged internationally, and gives them the best opportunities of any part of the world, not simply—as I think was the inference in his question—comparable to those across our border, but across the globe.

Nid wyf yn credu bod un yn dilyn y llall. Mae Cymwysterau Cymru yn ymgynghori ar rôl arholiadau yn y dyfodol a sut y caiff cymwysterau eu hasesu. O ystyried y ddwy neu dair blynedd diwethaf, pan fo llawer o newid wedi bod yn ein system ysgolion o ran sut yr awn ati i addysgu ac asesu, rwy'n credu y byddai'n anghywir i ni roi hynny i un ochr heb edrych a oes achos dros addasu'r cydbwysedd yn y dyfodol, ac edrych ar wahanol ffyrdd o arholi wrth wneud hynny.

Rwy'n credu mai'r peth pwysig ar hyn o bryd yw ein bod yn arwain trafodaeth uchelgeisiol, greadigol ynglŷn â sut y gallwn wneud yn siŵr fod gan bobl ifanc yn y dyfodol fynediad at y cymwysterau gorau a'u bod yn cael eu hasesu yn y ffordd fwyaf priodol, gan adlewyrchu egwyddorion y cwricwlwm, sy'n sicrhau eu bod yn parhau i gael eu cydnabod yn rhyngwladol, ac sy'n rhoi'r cyfleoedd gorau iddynt o gymharu â rhannau eraill o'r byd, sydd nid yn unig yn cymharu â'r rhai ar draws y ffin—fel yr awgrymai ei gwestiwn, rwy'n credu—ond ar draws y byd.

2. Cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol
2. Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Jane Dodds.

The next item, therefore, is questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services, and the first question is from Jane Dodds.

Diolch, Lywydd. Prynhawn da, Weinidiog. Mi ges i amser da ym mis Medi pan oeddwn yn ymweld â chlinig—

Thank you, Llywydd. Good afternoon, Minister. I had a good time in September when I visited a clinic—

Rydych chi angen gofyn y cwestiwn ar y papur.

You need to ask the question on the order paper.

Gwasanaethau Deintyddol Cymunedol
Community Dental Services

1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ddyfodol gwasanaethau deintyddol cymunedol? OQ58536

1. Will the Minister make a statement on the future of community dental services? OQ58536

Ym mis Awst 2022, cyhoeddodd y prif swyddog deintyddol ganllawiau wedi’u diweddaru ar rôl y gwasanaeth deintyddol cymunedol. Roedd hyn yn cynnwys ehangu swyddi swyddogion deintyddol cyflogedig i gefnogi cymunedau sydd â mynediad cyfyngedig, neu ddim mynediad o gwbl, at wasanaethau deintyddol cyffredinol sy’n cael eu darparu fel arfer drwy’r model contractwyr annibynnol.

In August 2022, the chief dental officer published updated guidance on the role of the community dental service. This included the expansion of salaried dental officer posts, to support local communities who have limited or no access to general dental services normally provided by the independent contractor model.

Diolch. Ces i amser gwych yn ymweld â chlinig a oedd yn rhoi gwasanaethau deintyddol cymunedol yn Llanelli ym mis Medi. Hoffwn ddiolch i bawb sydd wedi bod yn gweithio yn y cymunedau ar draws Cymru, yn enwedig yn ystod cyfnod coch y pandemig, yn sicrhau bod triniaeth frys ar gael.

Thank you. I had an excellent time visiting a clinic providing community dental services in Llanelli in September. I'd like to thank everyone who has been working in communities across Wales, particularly during the red period of the pandemic, to ensure that emergency services were available.

In visiting the community dental services in Llanelli, I learned a lot about what they do in meeting the needs of vulnerable people: people who have disabilities, mental health difficulties, and also refugees. But there was a concern around the erosion of community dental services. They were really impacted by the pressure on the general dentistry service, and some of their emergency slots were being filled, actually, from those general dentistry emergencies. This often means that there's no availability for vulnerable patients in need of emergency care. So, I wonder if you would commit to ring-fencing the funding and protecting this provision. I wonder if you would join me on a visit, perhaps to Llanelli in our region, to hear from the wonderful staff in providing the service that they do. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

Wrth ymweld â'r gwasanaethau deintyddol cymunedol yn Llanelli, dysgais lawer am yr hyn y maent yn ei wneud i ddiwallu anghenion pobl agored i niwed: pobl sydd ag anableddau, trafferthion iechyd meddwl, a ffoaduriaid hefyd. Ond roedd pryder ynghylch erydu gwasanaethau deintyddol cymunedol. Roedd y pwysau ar y gwasanaeth deintyddol cyffredinol yn effeithio arnynt yn fawr, ac roedd rhai o'u slotiau brys yn cael eu llenwi gan yr achosion deintyddiaeth gyffredinol brys hynny. Mae hyn yn aml yn golygu nad oes lle ar gael ar gyfer cleifion agored i niwed sydd angen gofal brys. Felly, tybed a wnewch chi ymrwymo i glustnodi'r cyllid a diogelu'r ddarpariaeth hon. Tybed a wnewch chi ymuno â mi ar ymweliad, â Llanelli yn ein rhanbarth efallai, i glywed gan y staff gwych sy'n darparu gwasanaeth. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

Thanks very much, and it's very heartening to hear about the work that they are undertaking in those community dental services in Llanelli. The good news is that we have given an additional £2 million worth of recurrent funding since 2022 to improve access, and many of the health boards have used that funding to invest in their community dental services—and that's true, I know, both in Powys and Carmarthenshire, which are in our region. So, they are already using some of that money specifically for what you hoped that they would do.

I guess the other point is that the new dental contract means that we are expecting 112,000 new patient appointments to be possible, and that should free up those slots that you were suggesting are being taken up by people who should really be going elsewhere. So, because of that contractual change, we'll expect more of those community slots to be freed up.

Diolch yn fawr, ac mae'n galonogol iawn clywed am y gwaith y maent yn ei wneud yn y gwasanaethau deintyddol cymunedol hynny yn Llanelli. Y newyddion da yw ein bod ni wedi rhoi gwerth £2 filiwn ychwanegol o gyllid rheolaidd ers 2022 i wella mynediad, ac mae llawer o'r byrddau iechyd wedi defnyddio'r arian hwnnw i fuddsoddi yn eu gwasanaethau deintyddol cymunedol—ac mae hynny'n wir, rwy'n gwybod, ym Mhowys a sir Gaerfyrddin, sydd yn ein rhanbarth. Felly, maent eisoes yn defnyddio rhywfaint o'r arian hwnnw'n benodol ar gyfer yr hyn yr oeddech wedi'i obeithio y byddent yn ei wneud.

Y pwynt arall mae'n debyg yw bod y contract deintyddol newydd yn golygu ein bod yn disgwyl i 112,000 o apwyntiadau newydd fod yn bosibl, a dylai hynny ryddhau'r slotiau yr oeddech yn dweud eu bod yn cael eu cymryd gan bobl a ddylai fod yn mynd i rywle arall mewn gwirionedd. Felly, oherwydd y newid cytundebol hwnnw, byddwn yn disgwyl i fwy o'r slotiau cymunedol hynny gael eu rhyddhau.

Thank you, Jane Dodds, for raising this question. Yesterday, the First Minister told the Chamber that tens of thousands of new appointments will be made, and that was very welcome. We look forward to where and when these will be made available—when we will start seeing them. I am continuing to receive correspondence from anxious constituents, as we all are here, who are struggling to access NHS dentistry services. Currently just 17 per cent of practices in Monmouthshire are taking on new patients, according to the British Dental Association. Accessing an NHS dentist in Wales as a new patient is currently near impossible, or requires a wait of a couple of years, but if a patient joins a scheme like Denplan, you can almost be seen immediately. Clearly there is something wrong here to allow that to happen. Minister, can you outline today what concrete steps the Welsh Government is taking to help retention and to encourage people to enter the dentist industry? How can you make sure NHS patients aren't disadvantaged by the desire of some dentists to take on more private patients?

Diolch am godi'r cwestiwn hwn, Jane Dodds. Ddoe, dywedodd y Prif Weinidog wrth y Siambr y bydd degau o filoedd o apwyntiadau newydd yn cael eu creu ac mae hynny i'w groesawu'n fawr. Edrychwn ymlaen at gael gwybod lle a phryd y bydd y rhain ar gael—pryd y byddwn yn dechrau eu gweld. Rwy'n parhau i gael gohebiaeth gan etholwyr pryderus, fel pawb arall yma, sy'n cael trafferth cael mynediad at wasanaethau deintyddiaeth y GIG. Ar hyn o bryd, dim ond 17 y cant o bractisau yn sir Fynwy sy'n derbyn cleifion newydd, yn ôl Cymdeithas Ddeintyddol Prydain. Mae cael mynediad at ddeintydd y GIG yng Nghymru fel claf newydd bron yn amhosibl ar hyn o bryd, neu'n golygu aros am flwyddyn neu ddwy, ond os yw claf yn ymuno â chynllun fel Denplan, gallwch gael eich gweld bron yn syth. Yn amlwg, mae rhywbeth o'i le yma os yw hynny'n digwydd. Weinidog, a wnewch chi amlinellu heddiw pa gamau pendant y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i helpu i gadw staff ac i annog pobl i ddilyn gyrfa yn y diwydiant deintyddiaeth? Sut y gallwch sicrhau nad yw cleifion y GIG o dan anfantais oherwydd awydd rhai deintyddion i dderbyn mwy o gleifion preifat?

14:20

Thanks very much. We are already seeing a difference as a result of that new contract. So, 73,000 new patients have already gained access this year, and as I say, we expect that to reach 112,000 new patients during that financial year. So already it is making a difference. We also have the new dental academy in Bangor, which we hope is going to provide access to between 12,000 and 15,000 patients, and that's going to be open for six days a week.

The point is, although there's a lot of noise in the system about NHS dentists leaving, the reality is that only 14 per cent of the contracts have been handed back. Eighty-nine per cent of the total dental contract value has moved on to the new contract. But you don't lose those from the NHS—you redistribute them. So it's not lost just because they go somewhere else. They're just redistributed. 

We have been recruiting more dentists, and I'm certainly putting a lot of pressure on Health Education and Improvement Wales to make sure that we drive up the number of dental therapists in future, because I do think we have to get to a new model where we're talking about a team approach rather than everything being reliant on the dentist. 

Diolch yn fawr. Rydym eisoes yn gweld gwahaniaeth o ganlyniad i'r contract newydd hwnnw. Felly, mae 73,000 o gleifion newydd eisoes wedi cael mynediad eleni, ac fel rwy'n dweud, rydym yn disgwyl i'r ffigur hwnnw gyrraedd 112,000 o gleifion newydd yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol honno. Felly mae'n gwneud gwahaniaeth yn barod. Hefyd, mae gennym yr academi ddeintyddol newydd ym Mangor, ac rydym yn gobeithio y bydd honno'n darparu mynediad i rhwng 12,000 a 15,000 o gleifion, a bydd honno ar agor chwe diwrnod yr wythnos.

Y pwynt yw, er bod llawer o sŵn yn y system am ddeintyddion y GIG yn gadael, y gwir amdani yw mai dim ond 14 y cant o'r cytundebau sydd wedi'u trosglwyddo'n ôl. Mae 89 y cant o gyfanswm gwerth y contract deintyddol wedi symud ymlaen i'r contract newydd. Ond nid ydych yn colli rheini o'r GIG—rydych yn eu hailddosbarthu. Felly nid ydynt yn cael eu colli oherwydd eu bod yn mynd i rywle arall. Cânt eu hailddosbarthu. 

Rydym wedi bod yn recriwtio mwy o ddeintyddion, ac rwy'n sicr yn rhoi llawer o bwysau ar Addysg a Gwella Iechyd Cymru i wneud yn siŵr ein bod yn cynyddu nifer y therapyddion deintyddol yn y dyfodol, oherwydd rwy'n credu bod rhaid inni sefydlu model newydd lle rydym yn sôn am ddull tîm yn hytrach na bod popeth yn ddibynnol ar y deintydd. 

Weinidog, mae'n amlwg bod yna broblem o fewn y maes yma. Ddydd Gwener diwethaf ces i ddau e-bost oddi wrth etholwyr am fethu â chael gwasanaeth i'w plant nhw. Roedd un yn cael ei hannog i fynd yn breifat gan y deintydd, a dywedwyd wrth y llall gan eu deintydd nhw y byddan nhw'n aros i'w plentyn dwyflwydd oed nhw am o leiaf dwy flynedd cyn cael apwyntiad. Mae iechyd dannedd plant Cymru yn ofid. Mae'r dystiolaeth yn dangos ein bod ni tu ôl Lloegr yn barod. Ar gychwyn mis Gorffennaf y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, fe wnaethoch chi ddweud y bydd gwasanaethau deintyddol yn mynd nôl i'r arfer wedi i wasanaethau brys gael eu delio â nhw yn gyntaf. Pryd mae hynny'n mynd i ddigwydd, Weinidog?

Minister, it's clear that there is a problem in this area. Last Friday I had two e-mails from constituents saying that they were concerned that they couldn't access service for their children. One had been encouraged to go private by the dentist, and the other had been told by their dentist that they would have to wait for their two-year-old child at least two years before they would have an appointment. The dental health of children in Wales is a concern. The evidence shows that we are already behind England in that regard. At the beginning of July last year, you said that dental services would go back to normal once emergency treatments had been dealt with first. When will that happen, Minister?

We are getting to a point now where—. Obviously, we're still in a situation where COVID is a reality. One in 50 people have COVID, so we do have to bear in mind that anywhere where there's an aerosol-generating situation, there's an increased risk of the spread of COVID. So, there is bound to be a slight reduction in the level of activity. 

When it comes to children, we're hoping to look at new models of how we can look at that, and there's a lot of work that I've asked my team to look at where we can perhaps consider innovative ways of addressing the issue of child dentistry. Because I am aware that we need to ensure that people get into the right frame of mind, when it comes to teeth health, at a very early age. So, that work is ongoing, and I hope I'll be able to report to you at some point soon on where we're at with that. 

Rydym yn cyrraedd pwynt nawr lle—. Yn amlwg, rydym yn dal mewn sefyllfa lle mae COVID yn realiti. Mae gan un o bob 50 o bobl COVID, felly mae'n rhaid i ni gofio, mewn unrhyw sefyllfa sy'n cynhyrchu aerosol, ceir mwy o risg o ledaenu COVID. Felly, mae'n siŵr y bydd gostyngiad bach yn lefel y gweithgarwch. 

O ran plant, rydym yn gobeithio edrych ar fodelau newydd o sut y gallwn edrych ar hynny, ac rwyf wedi gofyn i fy nhîm ystyried lle efallai y gallwn ystyried ffyrdd arloesol o fynd i'r afael â mater deintyddiaeth plant. Oherwydd rwy'n ymwybodol fod angen inni sicrhau bod pobl yn meddwl yn y ffordd briodol, mewn perthynas ag iechyd dannedd, o oedran cynnar iawn. Felly, mae'r gwaith hwnnw'n parhau, ac rwy'n gobeithio y gallaf adrodd ar beth yw'r sefyllfa gyda hynny rywbryd yn fuan. 

Gofal Brys Acíwt
Acute Emergency Care

2. Beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i wella gofal brys acíwt mewn ysbytai ym Mrycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed? OQ58529

2. What is the Welsh Government doing to enhance acute emergency care in hospitals in Brecon and Radnorshire? OQ58529

While I have a role to set the strategic direction for healthcare services in Wales and to hold the NHS to account, it's Powys health board that is responsible for the planning and delivery of services at a local level and for ensuring they meet the needs of the communities that they serve. 

Er bod gennyf rôl i osod cyfeiriad strategol ar gyfer gwasanaethau gofal iechyd yng Nghymru a dwyn y GIG i gyfrif, bwrdd iechyd Powys sy'n gyfrifol am gynllunio a darparu gwasanaethau ar lefel leol ac am sicrhau eu bod yn diwallu anghenion y cymunedau y maent yn eu gwasanaethu. 

Thank you, Minister. Emergency treatment for acute conditions such as stroke or cardiac arrest is more difficult for those people who live in my constituency in rural areas. With stroke and cardiac events it's the minutes and seconds that make the difference between living and dying, and if you do survive, the time of intervention has a direct result on your recovery. In my constituency people are forced to travel over 45 minutes for care into England or other counties in Wales. I hear repeatedly residents contacting me who are saying they're waiting over seven hours for an ambulance, and they're being told to put their loved ones in a car and drive them to a hospital. These trips are extremely dangerous and distressing for family members. So, Minister, I'd like to know what discussions you have had with Powys Teaching Health Board to ensure timely access to emergency treatments for the residents I have in Brecon and Radnorshire, so that they are not disadvantaged by not having any district hospitals within Powys.

Diolch. Mae triniaeth frys ar gyfer cyflyrau acíwt fel strôc neu ataliad ar y galon yn anos i'r bobl sy'n byw mewn ardaloedd gwledig yn fy etholaeth. Gyda digwyddiadau strôc a chardiaidd, mae munudau ac eiliadau'n gallu golygu'r gwahaniaeth rhwng byw a marw, ac os ydych yn goroesi, mae amseriad yr ymyrraeth yn cael canlyniad uniongyrchol ar eich adferiad. Yn fy etholaeth i, mae pobl yn cael eu gorfodi i deithio dros 45 munud i gael gofal yn Lloegr neu siroedd eraill yng Nghymru. Rwy'n clywed trigolion dro ar ôl tro yn cysylltu â mi i ddweud eu bod yn aros dros saith awr am ambiwlans a'u bod yn gorfod rhoi eu hanwyliaid mewn car a'u gyrru i ysbyty. Mae'r teithiau hyn yn beryglus dros ben ac yn ofidus i aelodau'r teulu. Felly, Weinidog, hoffwn wybod pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda Bwrdd Iechyd Addysgu Powys i sicrhau mynediad amserol at driniaethau brys i'r preswylwyr sydd gennyf ym Mrycheiniog a sir Faesyfed, fel nad ydynt o dan anfantais o ganlyniad i'r ffaith nad oes unrhyw ysbytai dosbarth ym Mhowys.

14:25

Thanks very much. You're absolutely right; we've got to make sure that equity is something that prevails across Wales. We have a clinical lead for stroke in Wales, and with the support of the stroke implementation group manager and the national allied health professional lead for stroke, we're developing plans for regional stroke services in Wales. That includes how hyperacute stroke services, now referred to as comprehensive regional stroke centres, will be configured to ensure that equitable access. When it comes to Powys, as part of that process, it's clear that arrangements linking those comprehensive regional stroke centres are going to have to fit in and to slot into what happens in England. I know that the population of Powys will be interested to hear that, and they are in liaison with the services in England to make sure that that plan does actually take into consideration the fact that, actually, people cross the border into England. 

Diolch yn fawr. Rydych yn hollol gywir; mae'n rhaid inni wneud yn siŵr fod tegwch yn rhywbeth sy'n bodoli ledled Cymru. Mae gennym arweinydd clinigol ar gyfer strôc yng Nghymru, a gyda chymorth rheolwr y grŵp gweithredu ar gyfer strôc a'r arweinydd cenedlaethol proffesiynol perthynol i iechyd ar gyfer strôc, rydym yn datblygu cynlluniau ar gyfer gwasanaethau strôc rhanbarthol yng Nghymru. Mae hynny'n cynnwys sut y bydd gwasanaethau strôc hyperacíwt, y cyfeirir atynt bellach fel canolfannau strôc rhanbarthol cynhwysfawr, yn cael eu ffurfweddu i sicrhau mynediad teg. O ran Powys, fel rhan o'r broses honno, yn amlwg bydd rhaid i'r trefniadau sy'n cysylltu'r canolfannau strôc rhanbarthol cynhwysfawr hynny gyd-fynd â'r hyn sy'n digwydd yn Lloegr. Gwn y bydd gan boblogaeth Powys ddiddordeb mewn clywed hynny, ac maent mewn cysylltiad â'r gwasanaethau yn Lloegr i wneud yn siŵr fod y cynllun hwnnw'n ystyried y ffaith fod pobl, mewn gwirionedd, yn croesi'r ffin i Loegr. 

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr yn gyntaf i ofyn cwestiwn i'r Dirprwy Weinidog Iechyd Meddwl a Llesiant. James Evans.  

Questions now from party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, first of all, to ask a question to the Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Well-being. James Evans.

Diolch, Llywydd. Deputy Minister, do you think people who present with a mental health problem should be guaranteed mental health assessment within a month? 

Diolch, Lywydd. Ddirprwy Weinidog, a ydych yn credu y dylai pobl sydd â phroblem iechyd meddwl gael sicrwydd o asesiad iechyd meddwl o fewn mis? 

Thank you for that question. Clearly, our aim in Wales is to have a 'no wrong door' service. We have targets in place in Wales for primary mental health services and access to other services. Services are under pressure at the moment and we are taking action to recover performance with health boards. 

Diolch am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Yn amlwg, ein nod yng Nghymru yw cael gwasanaeth 'dim drws anghywir'. Mae gennym dargedau ar waith yng Nghymru ar gyfer gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl sylfaenol a mynediad at wasanaethau eraill. Mae gwasanaethau dan bwysau ar hyn o bryd ac rydym yn cymryd camau i adfer perfformiad gyda'r byrddau iechyd. 

Thank you for that answer, Deputy Minister. Your own UK Labour leader, Keir Starmer, said that a UK Labour Government would guarantee mental health treatment within a month, but your child and adolescent mental health services statistics show that the Government here in Wales is failing. Only 50 per cent of children who are using mental health services get their assessment within a month. In some health boards, three in four children are waiting longer than a month for an assessment, and in Aneurin Bevan, 85 per cent of children are waiting longer than a month for therapeutic intervention. This is just, frankly, unacceptable. So, do you believe that your Government is failing children's mental health in Wales? 

Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Dywedodd eich arweinydd Llafur yn y DU, Keir Starmer, y byddai Llywodraeth Lafur yn y DU yn gwarantu triniaeth iechyd meddwl o fewn mis, ond mae ystadegau eich gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc yn dangos bod y Llywodraeth yma yng Nghymru yn methu. Dim ond 50 y cant o blant sy'n defnyddio gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl sy'n cael eu hasesiad o fewn mis. Mewn rhai byrddau iechyd, mae tri phlentyn o bob pedwar yn aros yn hwy na mis ar gyfer asesiad, ac yn Aneurin Bevan, mae 85 y cant o blant yn aros yn hwy na mis am ymyrraeth therapiwtig. Mae hyn yn annerbyniol a dweud y gwir. Felly, a ydych yn credu bod eich Llywodraeth yn gwneud cam â phlant sydd ag anghenion iechyd meddwl yng Nghymru? 

Had the Member been here yesterday and joined us for my statement on our 'Together for Mental Health' strategy, he would have heard me talk in detail about these. Keir Starmer is entitled to set out his policies for the forthcoming Labour Government in England, but it may surprise you to learn that health is devolved in Wales. I absolutely do not accept that we are failing the children of Wales. As you are well aware, the pandemic has had an impact on waiting times. We've seen a significant rise in referrals and a rise in the acuity of children who are coming forward.

We have instituted the delivery unit review of specialist CAMHS. That's due to report this month. In addition to that, we are working, along with the delivery unit, with every health board in Wales to make sure that they recover their CAMHS position. I am awaiting that report from the delivery unit, and the implementation of its recommendations will be key. Again, had you been here yesterday, you would have also heard me describe the whole range of support we are providing at an early intervention and school level, which is designed to prevent problems escalating to specialist CAMHS. 

Pe bai'r Aelod wedi bod yma ddoe ac wedi ymuno â ni ar gyfer fy natganiad ar ein strategaeth 'Law yn Llaw at Iechyd Meddwl', byddai wedi fy nghlywed yn siarad yn fanwl am y rhain. Mae hawl gan Keir Starmer i amlinellu ei bolisïau ar gyfer y Llywodraeth Lafur sydd i ddod yn Lloegr, ond fe allai fod yn syndod i chi glywed bod iechyd wedi ei ddatganoli yng Nghymru. Nid wyf yn derbyn o gwbl ein bod yn gwneud cam â phlant Cymru. Fel y gwyddoch yn iawn, mae'r pandemig wedi cael effaith ar amseroedd aros. Rydym wedi gweld cynnydd sylweddol yn nifer yr atgyfeiriadau a chynnydd yn aciwtedd yr achosion a welir.

Rydym wedi sefydlu arolwg yr uned gyflawni o wasanaethau CAMHS arbenigol. Disgwylir iddynt adrodd y mis hwn. Yn ogystal â hynny, rydym yn gweithio, ynghyd â'r uned gyflawni, gyda phob bwrdd iechyd yng Nghymru i wneud yn siŵr eu bod yn adfer eu sefyllfa CAMHS. Rwy'n aros am yr adroddiad hwnnw gan yr uned gyflawni, a bydd gweithredu ei argymhellion yn allweddol. Unwaith eto, pe baech chi wedi bod yma ddoe, byddech wedi fy nghlywed hefyd yn disgrifio'r ystod gyfan o gymorth yr ydym yn ei ddarparu ar lefel ymyrraeth gynnar ac ar lefel ysgol, sydd wedi'i gynllunio i atal problemau rhag gwaethygu i lefel gwasanaethau CAMHS arbenigol. 

It's interesting that it also shows that the Labour leader in the UK doesn't believe that the Welsh Government have got any ambition when it comes to health services. That's probably why he's setting his own targets, because he doesn't want to base himself on the failings here. The figures are quite clear that there is a mental health crisis with our children, which is made worse by the Government here not getting on top of it. And no matter how much you stand and say things are difficult, you should be getting on top of this problem.

I also find it unacceptable that nearly 50 children and young people under the age of 18, most of whom were female, were detained under sections 151 and 136 of the Mental Health Act 1983 in the last quarter. Do you think that it's acceptable to detain young children? What are this Government's plans to fix this problem, and if you don't think that that is a failure of this Government, what exactly do you think a failure is?

Mae'n ddiddorol ei fod hefyd yn dangos nad yw arweinydd y Blaid Lafur yn y DU yn credu bod gan Lywodraeth Cymru unrhyw uchelgais mewn perthynas â gwasanaethau iechyd. Mae'n debyg mai dyna pam ei fod yn gosod ei dargedau ei hun, oherwydd nad yw eisiau cysylltu ei hun â'r methiannau yma. Mae'r ffigurau'n hollol glir fod argyfwng iechyd meddwl yn wynebu ein plant, sy'n cael ei waethygu gan y ffaith nad yw'r Llywodraeth hon yn ymdrin ag ef. Ac ni waeth sawl gwaith y dywedwch fod pethau'n anodd, dylech fod yn ymdrin â'r broblem hon.

Mae'n annerbyniol i mi fod bron i 50 o blant a phobl ifanc o dan 18 oed, y rhan fwyaf ohonynt yn fenywaidd, wedi cael eu rhoi dan gadwad o dan adrannau 151 a 136 o Ddeddf Iechyd Meddwl 1983 yn y chwarter diwethaf. A ydych yn credu ei bod yn dderbyniol rhoi plant ifanc dan gadwad? Beth yw cynlluniau'r Llywodraeth hon i ddatrys y broblem, ac os nad ydych yn credu bod hwnnw'n fethiant ar ran y Llywodraeth hon, beth yn union y mae methiant yn ei olygu i chi?

14:30

Well, I think you'll find, James, that there is no section 151 of the Mental Health Act. Obviously, there are protections in place under the law to detain people who are in mental health crisis. We want to see the numbers of young people who are being detained reduced. That's why we're investing all this money in early intervention, prevention, in sanctuary services and in crisis care. But there will always be some people who will need to be detained for their own protection under the Mental Health Act. And we monitor those cases very carefully, and you can see when someone is being detained—by the action that is taken following the detention, with lots of them being referred into secondary services—that those decisions are taken to keep people safe.

Wel, rwy'n credu y gwelwch chi, James, nad oes adran 151 o’r Ddeddf Iechyd Meddwl. Yn amlwg, mae amddiffyniadau ar waith o dan y gyfraith i gadw pobl sydd mewn argyfwng iechyd meddwl dan gadwad. Rydym am weld nifer y bobl ifanc sy'n cael eu cadw dan gadwad yn lleihau. Dyna pam ein bod yn buddsoddi'r holl arian hwn mewn ymyrraeth gynnar, atal, mewn gwasanaethau noddfa ac mewn gofal argyfwng. Ond bydd bob amser rhai pobl y bydd angen eu cadw dan gadwad er eu lles eu hunain o dan y Ddeddf Iechyd Meddwl. Ac rydym yn monitro'r achosion hynny'n ofalus iawn, a gallwch weld, pan fydd rhywun yn cael eu cadw dan gadwad—drwy'r camau a gymerir wedyn, gyda llawer ohonynt yn cael eu hatgyfeirio at wasanaethau eilaidd—fod y penderfyniadau hynny'n cael eu gwneud i gadw pobl yn ddiogel.

Llefarydd Plaid Cymru nesaf, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson next, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Ar 20 Medi, mi ddywedodd y Prif Weinidog mai ffigurau a data Elusen Ambiwlans Awyr Cymru sydd y tu cefn i gynlluniau'r elusen i gau'i  ddau safle yn y Trallwng a Chaernarfon a symud yr hofrenyddion i un safle. Dwi, a rhai o fy nghyd-Aelodau, wedi ysgrifennu ato fo i nodi mai ffigurau y Llywodraeth ydy'r rhain—ffigurau EMRTS yn y gwasanaeth iechyd—ac i ofyn iddo gywiro’r record. Mi fuaswn i'n gwerthfawrogi pe tasai'r Gweinidog yn cadarnhau hynny heddiw hefyd. Os ydy o'n help, mi ddyfynnai o eiriau'r elusen ei hun, bod yr analysis,

On 20 September, the First Minister said that the figures and data of the Wales Air Ambulance Charity are behind the plans to close its two sites in Welshpool and Caernarfon and to move the helicopters to one site. I and other Members have written to him to state that it's the Government figures that are behind the emergency medical retrieval and transfer service figures in the health service, and we've asked him to correct the Record. I'd appreciate it if the Minister could confirm that that has happened today. If it helps, I'll quote the words of the charity itself, stating that the analysis,

'has been conducted by our medical partners, the Emergency Medical Retrieval and Transfer Service (EMRTS)'.

'wedi'i wneud gan ein partneriaid meddygol, y Gwasanaeth Casglu a Throsglwyddo Meddygol Brys (EMRTS)'.

Rŵan, oherwydd ansicrwydd ynglŷn ag union sail y data yma, na, yn wir, beth yn union mae'r data yn ei ddweud wrthym ni, ydy'r Gweinidog yn barod i gomisiynu adolygiad annibynol o'r data yna ac, yn benodol, i gael yr adolygiad i ystyried impact tebygol y newid ar yr ardaloedd hynny sydd fwyaf anodd eu cyrraedd ar y ffordd ac sydd ymhellach o'r canolfannau gofal brys—llefydd fel pendraw Llŷn, gogledd Môn a Phowys?

Now, because of uncertainty regarding the exact basis for these data, nor, indeed, what exactly the data are telling us, is the Minister willing to commission an independent review of those data and, specifically, to have the review consider the likely impact of the change on those areas that are hardest to reach by road and that are further from the emergency care centers—places such as the furthest points in Llŷn, north Anglesey and Powys?

Diolch yn fawr. Look, at the moment, we're all working on the basis of a leaked report. So, the important thing is that we let the system and the process work its way through. Now, I know that the chief ambulance service commissioner is acting independently of the air ambulance service and the key thing for us to do, first of all, is to find out, once the report has been published properly, whether this does constitute a change in service, and if it does, then obviously the community health councils will be engaged. And at that point, they will determine whether the proposed changes represent that service change, and if they do, then that will trigger a formal consultation. And it's at that point, of course, that we will then have to look at the data. But let me tell you about the data, because I've looked into this and asked what data has been used: we were assured about the rigour of the comprehensive data modelling. What I am told is that it is difficult for us to publish—

Diolch yn fawr. Edrychwch, ar hyn o bryd, mae pob un ohonom yn gweithio ar sail adroddiad a ddatgelwyd yn answyddogol. Felly, y peth pwysig yw ein bod yn gadael i'r system a'r broses wneud eu gwaith. Nawr, gwn fod prif gomisiynydd y gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn gweithredu’n annibynnol ar y gwasanaeth ambiwlans awyr, a’r peth allweddol i ni ei wneud, yn gyntaf oll, yw darganfod, ar ôl i’r adroddiad gael ei gyhoeddi’n briodol, a yw hyn yn gyfystyr â newid gwasanaeth, ac os ydyw, yna yn amlwg, byddwn yn ymgysylltu â'r cynghorau iechyd cymuned. Ac ar y pwynt hwnnw, byddant yn penderfynu a yw'r newidiadau arfaethedig yn cynrychioli newid gwasanaeth, ac os ydynt, bydd hynny'n sbarduno ymgynghoriad ffurfiol. Ac ar y pwynt hwnnw, wrth gwrs, bydd yn rhaid inni edrych ar y data. Ond gadewch imi ddweud wrthych am y data, gan fy mod wedi ymchwilio i hyn ac wedi gofyn pa ddata a ddefnyddiwyd: cawsom sicrwydd ynghylch trylwyredd y gwaith modelu data cynhwysfawr. Yr hyn a ddywedir wrthyf yw ei bod yn anodd inni gyhoeddi—

I know. I'm going to come to that, Rhun. It's difficult for us to publish that data, because it could identify patients, and that's what I've been told. That's what I've been told, and I'm very happy to put that in writing to you.

Rwy'n gwybod hynny. Rwy'n mynd i ddod at hynny, Rhun. Mae'n anodd inni gyhoeddi'r data hwnnw, gan y gallai ei gwneud yn bosibl adnabod cleifion, a dyna a ddywedwyd wrthyf. Dyna a ddywedwyd wrthyf, ac rwy'n fwy na pharod i roi hynny i chi yn ysgrifenedig.

That is absolute nonsense.

Mae hynny'n nonsens llwyr.

Fy ofn i ydy bod yr ardaloedd mwyaf gwledig yn mynd i golli allan wrth i'r ambiwlans fynd ar ôl targedau niferoedd cleifion gall cael eu cyrraedd efo'r hofrennydd heb ystyried yn iawn y tebygrwydd y gallai'r rheini gael eu cyrraedd yn reit gyflym ar y ffordd beth bynnag mewn ardaloedd poblog. 

Liciwn i dynnu sylw y Gweinidog at adroddiad, 'Service Evaluation of the Emergency Medical Retrieval & Transfer Service (EMRTS) Cymru', a gafodd ei gyhoeddi llai na blwyddyn yn ôl. Mae o'n nodi,

My concern is that the most rural areas are going to lose out because the ambulance will go after the patient number targets that can be reached by the helicopter without properly considering the likelihood that those could be reached quite quickly by road anyway in populated areas.

I'd like to draw the Minister's attention to the report, 'Service Evaluation of the Emergency Medical Retrieval & Transfer Service (EMRTS) Cymru', which was published less than a year ago. It notes that,

'Despite the service substantially improving equity overall, there remained residual inequity in provision in the North West, and expansion into this area was to be considered.'

In a written statement in April this year, responding to that report, the Minister was full of praise about—and I quote—'the positive findings' of the report.

Now, I'm sure that the same arguments could be made for Powys, but on this particular issue, how can moving the helicopter further away, moving the road vehicles further away, be an expansion of the EMRTS services in the north-west in particular? It can't be about the expansion of flying hours—that helps everybody; we'd all welcome that. How would closing Caernarfon constitute an expansion of provision in the north-west as a means to tackle residual inequity in provision, or what's changed since your statement in April?

'Er i'r gwasanaeth wneud gwelliannau mawr o ran cydraddoldeb yn gyffredinol, roedd anghydraddoldeb yn parhau yn y ddarpariaeth yn y Gogledd Orllewin, a nodwyd y dylid ystyried ehangu i'r ardal hon.'

Mewn datganiad ysgrifenedig ym mis Ebrill eleni, wrth ymateb i'r adroddiad hwnnw, roedd y Gweinidog yn ganmoliaethus iawn ynghylch—ac rwy'n dyfynnu—'canfyddiadau cadarnhaol' yr adroddiad.

Nawr, rwy’n siŵr y gellid gwneud yr un dadleuon ar gyfer Powys, ond ar y mater penodol hwn, sut y gall symud yr hofrennydd ymhellach i ffwrdd, symud y cerbydau ffyrdd ymhellach i ffwrdd, fod yn gyfystyr ag ehangu gwasanaethau Gwasanaeth Casglu a Throsglwyddo Meddygol Brys yn y gogledd-orllewin yn benodol? Ni all ymwneud â chynyddu oriau hedfan—mae hynny'n helpu pawb; byddai pob un ohonom yn croesawu hynny. Sut y byddai cau Caernarfon yn gyfystyr ag ehangu’r ddarpariaeth yn y gogledd-orllewin fel modd o fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldeb parhaus yn y ddarpariaeth, neu beth sydd wedi newid ers eich datganiad ym mis Ebrill?

Look, the air ambulance is an independent charity. They're the ones who make these decisions, and they have looked at the efficiency of their services. And you would be the first to say to me, 'Why aren't we getting to people quicker?' [Interruption.] You've asked in the past, 'Why aren't we getting to people quicker?' And they are saying, 'We can get more efficiencies—'[Interruption.] Well, other people have asked, Rhun. And, let's be clear, we need to get to people quicker—that is a problem that we need to address. And the air ambulance is trying to address that very issue. They've looked at the efficiencies, they've provided some data, and they have made that assessment. Now, we haven't engaged in that process yet, because it's still not a formal process. At that point, we will engage with the process, when it becomes formal.

Edrychwch, mae'r ambiwlans awyr yn elusen annibynnol. Hwy sy'n gwneud y penderfyniadau hyn, ac maent wedi edrych ar effeithlonrwydd eu gwasanaethau. A chi fyddai'r cyntaf i ddweud wrthyf, 'Pam nad ydym yn cyrraedd pobl yn gyflymach' [Torri ar draws.] Rydych wedi gofyn yn y gorffennol, 'Pam nad ydym yn cyrraedd pobl yn gyflymach?' Ac maent yn dweud, 'Gallwn gael mwy o effeithlonrwydd'—[Torri ar draws.] Wel, mae pobl eraill wedi gofyn, Rhun. A gadewch imi ddweud yn glir, mae angen inni gyrraedd pobl yn gyflymach—mae honno'n broblem y mae angen inni fynd i'r afael â hi. Ac mae'r ambiwlans awyr yn ceisio mynd i'r afael â'r union broblem honno. Maent wedi edrych ar yr effeithlonrwydd, maent wedi darparu rhywfaint o ddata, ac maent wedi gwneud yr asesiad hwnnw. Nawr, nid ydym wedi ymwneud â'r broses honno eto, gan nad yw'n broses ffurfiol o hyd. Ar y pwynt hwnnw, byddwn yn ymwneud â’r broses, pan ddaw’n ffurfiol.

14:35
Adroddiad 'Niferoedd Nyrsio 2022'
The '2022 Nursing in Numbers' Report

3. Pa asesiad y mae'r Gweinidog wedi ei wneud o adroddiad 'Niferoedd Nyrsio 2022' y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol mewn perthynas â gogledd Cymru? OQ58531

3. What assessment has the Minister made of the Royal College of Nursing's '2022 Nursing in Numbers' report in relation to north Wales? OQ58531

The RCN’s report outlines the challenges placed on our workforce by the COVID pandemic and a global shortage of nursing staff. I am committed to ensuring that Wales has the right number of nurses and healthcare staff to meet the care needs of our people.

Mae adroddiad y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol yn amlinellu’r heriau y mae pandemig COVID a phrinder staff nyrsio byd-eang wedi eu creu i'n gweithlu. Rwyf wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod gan Gymru’r nifer cywir o nyrsys a staff gofal iechyd i ddiwallu anghenion gofal ein pobl.

Thank you, Minister, for your initial answer there. And just for the record, just to be clear, my brother and sister are both nurses in the national health service as well.

At the end of last month, Minister, I had the pleasure of attending the Royal College of Nursing's Listen to Nursing event at the Senedd here, sponsored by your party colleague, Buffy Williams. And it was great to meet those nursing staff, who do continue to provide real high-quality care, day after day. During this event, the RCN released their '2022 Nursing in Numbers' report, which showed that, in Wales, there are currently 2,900 nursing vacancies, and in the area that I represent, in north Wales, in Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, there are 650 nursing vacancies up in north Wales at the moment. So, I'm sure, Minister, you'd agree with me, and as you initially outlined, that there is a challenge in recruiting and retaining nurses in Wales. So, in light of this, what further and specific action do you think that you and Welsh Government could carry out to, first of all, recruit more nurses, and, also, to make sure that we're retaining those hard-working nurses that we already have?

Diolch, Weinidog, am eich ateb cychwynnol. Ac ar gyfer y cofnod, er eglurder, mae fy mrawd a chwaer yn nyrsys yn y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol hefyd.

Ddiwedd y mis diwethaf, Weinidog, cefais y pleser o fynychu digwyddiad Gwrando ar Nyrsio y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol yma yn y Senedd, a noddwyd gan eich cyd-Aelod o'ch plaid, Buffy Williams. Ac roedd yn wych cyfarfod â'r staff nyrsio hynny, sy'n parhau i ddarparu gofal o ansawdd uchel, ddydd ar ôl dydd. Yn y digwyddiad hwn, cyhoeddodd y Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol eu hadroddiad 'Niferoedd Nyrsio 2022', a oedd yn dangos, yng Nghymru, fod 2,900 o swyddi nyrsio yn wag ar hyn o bryd, ac yn yr ardal rwy'n ei chynrychioli, yng ngogledd Cymru, ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr, fod 650 o swyddi nyrsio gwag i fyny yng ngogledd Cymru ar hyn o bryd. Felly, rwy’n siŵr y byddech yn cytuno â mi, Weinidog, ac fel yr amlinellwyd gennych ar y cychwyn, mae'n her i recriwtio a chadw nyrsys yng Nghymru. Felly, yng ngoleuni hyn, pa gamau penodol pellach y credwch y gallech chi a Llywodraeth Cymru eu cymryd, yn gyntaf oll, i recriwtio mwy o nyrsys, ac i sicrhau hefyd ein bod yn cadw'r nyrsys gweithgar sydd gennym yn barod?

Thanks very much. Well, you'll be aware that we're investing record levels in terms of training for the NHS—£262 million just in this financial year. The number of training places for nurses has increased over 69 per cent since 2016—that's 2,396 more nurses that have come on to the system. So, part of the problem is that we've got to actually make sure that we retain people—that's the real challenge as far as I'm concerned. I've asked Health Education and Improvement Wales to work with the RCN to look at what we can do in this space to help retention.

I think it's also worth emphasising that we've recruited an additional 400 international nurses this year. And I was very pleased, on Monday, to meet the health Minister for Kerala in India, who we're going to now be making a partnership with, so that we can recruit directly from Kerala, so that we can have a direct route to qualified, high-quality students. And it was good to hear, actually, that—. Because you always feel quite guilty about taking nurses from a developing country, although India's pretty developed now in many parts, but I think what's important is that we understand what is their motivation. And they were very clear to me that they are happy to train them up, they're happy to send them over. And what happens is that the remittances are sent back to Kerala, and that's why it's in their interest also for us to take on these nurses. So, there are some plans in place, we know that we've got a lot further to go, but this is a global pressure that everybody's really facing.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Wel, fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol ein bod yn buddsoddi'r lefelau uchaf erioed mewn hyfforddiant ar gyfer y GIG—£262 miliwn yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon yn unig. Mae nifer y lleoedd hyfforddi ar gyfer nyrsys wedi cynyddu dros 69 y cant ers 2016— 2,396 yn rhagor o nyrsys ar y system. Felly, rhan o'r broblem yw bod rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn cadw pobl—dyna'r her wirioneddol o'm rhan i. Rwyf wedi gofyn i Addysg a Gwella Iechyd Cymru weithio gyda'r Coleg Nyrsio Brenhinol i edrych ar yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud yn y maes hwn i helpu i gadw nyrsys.

Credaf ei bod yn werth pwysleisio hefyd ein bod wedi recriwtio 400 o nyrsys rhyngwladol ychwanegol eleni. Ac roeddwn yn falch iawn, ddydd Llun, o gyfarfod â Gweinidog iechyd Kerala yn India, y byddwn yn partneru â hwy, fel y gallwn recriwtio'n uniongyrchol o Kerala, ac fel y gallwn gael llwybr uniongyrchol at fyfyrwyr cymwys o ansawdd uchel. Ac roedd yn dda clywed, mewn gwirionedd, fod—. Oherwydd rydych bob amser yn teimlo braidd yn euog am fynd â nyrsys o wlad sy'n datblygu, er bod India yn eithaf datblygedig bellach mewn sawl rhan, ond credaf mai'r hyn sy'n bwysig yw ein bod yn deall beth yw eu cymhelliant. Ac roeddent yn dweud yn glir iawn wrthyf eu bod yn fwy na pharod i'w hyfforddi, maent yn fwy na pharod i'w hanfon draw yma. A'r hyn sy'n digwydd yw bod y taliadau'n cael eu hanfon yn ôl i Kerala, a dyna pam ei bod o fudd iddynt hwythau hefyd ein bod yn cyflogi'r nyrsys hyn. Felly, mae rhywfaint o gynlluniau ar waith, gwyddom fod mwy o lawer gennym i'w wneud, ond mae hwn yn bwysau byd-eang y mae pawb yn ei wynebu.

Cyfathrebu gyda Chleifion
Communication with Patients

4. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n eu cymryd i wella cyfathrebu gyda chleifion o fewn ardal Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr? OQ58519

4. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to improve communication with patients within the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board area? OQ58519

The health board is in targeted intervention for communications and engagement. This means that there is direct and focused action by Welsh Government to improve communication within the health board.

Mae’r bwrdd iechyd yn destun ymyrraeth wedi'i thargedu ar gyfer cyfathrebu ac ymgysylltu. Golyga hyn fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cymryd camau gweithredu uniongyrchol i ganolbwyntio ar wella cyfathrebu o fewn y bwrdd iechyd.

Thank you, Minister. I just felt compelled to raise this with you, given that, of late, I'm being approached by many constituents who feel that, either when they or their loved ones are in hospital, they get told very little. More worryingly, of the cases that I've raised recently with the health board, only 68 per cent have been responded to within their target of 21 working days. Now, officials have explained to me that delays occur due to clinicians being unable to answer questions immediately, or it can be that medical notes have got lost or have been difficult to find. In one case, I sent a letter last November, and it was only responded to in September this year because, in the end, it went to the ombudsman. An oncologist has apologised, stating that there were some issues in locating clinical notes for that particular patient. This is not the first time that this has been raised with me; it's happening too frequently. This is wholly unacceptable, Minister.

So, what can you do to ensure that, however busy a ward is, notes are written up at the appropriate time, so that the patients themselves know exactly, or their families, but also, that when complaints go in, we're not left waiting—when we're representing these constituents—months on end because the notes haven't been written up with due diligence, and so, it just holds the complaints process up? Thank you. 

Diolch, Weinidog. Roeddwn yn teimlo bod rhaid imi godi hyn gyda chi o ystyried bod llawer o etholwyr wedi dod ataf yn ddiweddar i ddweud eu bod yn teimlo, pan fyddant hwy neu eu hanwyliaid yn yr ysbyty, mai ychydig iawn o wybodaeth a gânt. Mae'n fater gofid pellach mai 68 y cant yn unig o’r achosion a godais yn ddiweddar gyda’r bwrdd iechyd sydd wedi cael ymateb o fewn eu targed o 21 diwrnod gwaith. Nawr, mae swyddogion wedi egluro wrthyf fod oedi'n digwydd am fod clinigwyr yn methu ateb cwestiynau ar unwaith, neu efallai fod nodiadau meddygol wedi mynd ar goll, neu'n anodd dod o hyd iddynt. Mewn un achos, anfonais lythyr fis Tachwedd diwethaf, ac ni chafwyd ymateb tan fis Medi eleni oherwydd, yn y diwedd, fe'i hanfonwyd at yr ombwdsmon. Mae oncolegydd wedi ymddiheuro, gan ddweud y bu rhai problemau o ran dod o hyd i nodiadau clinigol ar gyfer y claf penodol hwnnw. Nid dyma'r tro cyntaf i hyn gael ei ddwyn i fy sylw; mae'n digwydd yn rhy aml. Mae hyn yn gwbl annerbyniol, Weinidog.

Felly, beth y gallwch ei wneud i sicrhau, ni waeth pa mor brysur yw ward, fod nodiadau’n cael eu hysgrifennu ar yr adeg briodol, fel bod y cleifion eu hunain neu eu teuluoedd yn gwybod yn union, ond hefyd, pan fydd cwynion yn cael eu gwneud, na chawn ein gadael i aros—pan ydym yn cynrychioli'r etholwyr hyn—am fisoedd lawer am nad yw'r nodiadau wedi'u hysgrifennu gyda diwydrwydd dyladwy, gan greu rhwystr yn y broses gwyno? Diolch.

14:40

Thanks. Well, first of all, clinicians should be writing notes; they should be writing notes at the time of treatment. So, there's no excuse for that; that's a requirement. But, in terms of lost notes, I think part of the answer to this is to digitise, which is why I've spent quite a lot of my time trying to make sure that we make sure that we have a far more modern NHS, that we invest in the NHS. And we are investing more per head than England is. So, we're investing about £18 per head compared to £11.50. And that digital transformation programme will make sure that we are in a situation where we can know exactly what's going on, that the systems will speak to each other, and then, we won't have the situation where notes are lost. 

Diolch. Wel, yn gyntaf oll, dylai clinigwyr fod yn ysgrifennu nodiadau; dylent fod yn ysgrifennu nodiadau ar adeg y driniaeth. Felly, nid oes unrhyw esgus dros hynny; mae hynny'n ofyniad. Ond o ran nodiadau'n mynd ar goll, credaf fod digideiddio'n rhan o’r ateb i hyn, a dyna pam fy mod wedi treulio cryn dipyn o fy amser yn ceisio sicrhau ein bod yn gwneud yn siŵr fod gennym GIG llawer mwy modern, ein bod yn buddsoddi yn y GIG. Ac rydym yn buddsoddi mwy y pen nag y mae Lloegr. Felly, rydym yn buddsoddi oddeutu £18 y pen, o gymharu ag £11.50. A bydd y rhaglen drawsnewid ddigidol honno’n sicrhau ein bod mewn sefyllfa lle gallwn wybod beth yn union sy’n digwydd, y bydd y systemau’n siarad â’i gilydd, ac yna, ni fydd gennym sefyllfa lle mae nodiadau’n mynd ar goll.

Capasiti'r GIG yng Ngogledd Cymru
The Capacity of the NHS in North Wales

5. Pa gamau y mae'r Llywodraeth yn eu cymryd i sicrhau fod capasiti'r GIG yng ngogledd Cymru yn ddigon i ateb y galw? OQ58528

5. What action is the Government taking to ensure that the capacity of the NHS in north Wales is sufficient to meet demand? OQ58528

Mae Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr yn gyfrifol am ddarparu gwasanaethau gofal iechyd o safon, sy’n ddiogel ac yn gynaliadwy i’r boblogaeth leol. Mae hyn yn cael ei wneud ar sail y dystiolaeth a’r cyngor clinigol gorau a diweddaraf. Rŷn ni hefyd wedi darparu buddsoddiad ychwanegol i’w cefnogi.  

Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board is responsible for the provision of safe, sustainable, high-quality healthcare services for its local population, based on the best and most up-to-date clinical evidence and advice. We've also provided additional investment to support them.

Rŷn ni'n gwybod, wrth gwrs, bod un o bob wyth swydd nyrsio yn wag yn y gogledd. Rŷn ni hefyd yn gwybod, yn ôl cadeirydd y bwrdd iechyd, o'r 642 o feddygon teulu sydd gennym ni yn y gogledd, mae chwarter ohonyn nhw dros 65, a mae disgwyl i draean o'r 642 yna ymddeol yn y pum mlynedd nesaf. Ac rŷn ni hefyd yn gwybod, wrth gwrs, bod dim niferoedd digonol yn dod mewn i lenwi'r swyddi ar eu holau nhw. Mae 20 y cant o swyddi yn cael eu llenwi gan ddoctoriaid locum, dros dro, ar hyn o bryd, cyn bod y rhai roeddwn i'n sôn amdanyn nhw yn ymddeol. 

Ydych chi felly'n derbyn mai un o fethiannau hanesyddol y Llywodraeth yma, a Llywodraethau blaenorol, yw'r methiant i gynllunio'n ddigonol ar gyfer gweithlu y dyfodol yn y sector yma, a chanlyniad y methiant hynny, wrth gwrs, wedyn, yw bod gennym ni lefelau staffio sy'n crebachu, ei bod hi'n costio mwy i'r pwrs cyhoeddus wedyn i lenwi'r gwagle yna, ac, wrth gwrs, bod e'n gadael mwy o bwysau a baich ar ysgwyddau y rhai sydd ar ôl?

We know, of course, that one in eight nursing posts is vacant in north Wales. We also know from the chair of the health board that of the 642 GPs that we have in north Wales, a quarter of them are over 65, and a third of that 642 are expected to retire in the next five years. And we also know that there aren't adequate numbers coming through to fill those posts. Twenty per cent of posts are filled by locum doctors at the moment, before those I mentioned will retire.

Do you therefore accept that one of the historical failings of this Government, and previous Governments, is the failure to sufficiently plan for the future workforce in this sector, and the upshot of that failure, then, is that we have shrinking staffing levels, that it costs more to the public purse to fill those vacant posts, and it puts more pressure and burden on the shoulders of those left behind?

Wel, rŷn ni wedi bod yn hyfforddi pobl, ac rŷn ni wedi gweld 54 y cant mwy o bobl yn gweithio yn yr NHS dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf. Yn Betsi nawr, rŷn ni'n gweld bod bron i 20,000 o bobl yn gweithio i'r bwrdd iechyd, ac mae yna gynlluniau i recriwtio 380 mwy yn ystod y ddwy flynedd nesaf. A'r syniad sydd fanna yw bod y bwrdd eisiau cael pobl leol i gymryd y llefydd yna, felly mae gyda nhw gynllun ar gyfer hynny. A beth sy'n bwysig felly yw bod y cynllunio hynny yn cael ei wneud. Mi wnes i gael cyfarfod gyda'r GMC yr wythnos diwethaf. Roedden nhw'n dangos yn union faint o bobl sy'n mynd i adael oherwydd eu bod nhw yn dod lan at y ffaith eu bod nhw'n mynd i gael eu pensiwn— 'ymddeol', dyna'r gair—ac ymddeol cyn bo hir.

Felly, beth sy'n bwysig nawr yw ein bod ni'n cymryd y ffigurau yna i gyd. Rŷch chi wedi gweld bod y Blaid Lafur yn genedlaethol wedi dweud ein bod ni'n awyddus i weld lot mwy o feddygon yn cael eu hyfforddi ac, yn sicr, o ran hyfforddi nyrsys, fel roeddech chi'n clywed o'r cwestiwn blaenorol, rŷn ni eisoes yn hyfforddi lot mwy nag yr oedden ni yn y gorffennol—yn fwy na 69 y cant yn fwy nag ŷm ni wedi yn y gorffennol. Y drafferth yw mae'n rhaid i ni gadw pobl yn y system, a dyna ble mae’r tensiwn. Ac rŷch chi'n deall bod lot o bwysau wedi bod ar y bobl yma dros y ddwy flynedd diwethaf. 

Well, we have been training people, and we have seen 54 per cent more people working in the NHS over the past 20 years. In Betsi now, we see that almost 20,000 people work for the health board, and there are plans to recruit 380 more during the next two years. And the idea there is that the board wants to get local people to take those posts, so they have a plan for that. And what is important therefore is that that planning is done. I had a meeting with the General Medical Council last week. They demonstrated exactly how many people are going to leave because they're going to retire—'retirement', that's the word. 

So, what is important now is that we take all of those figures on board. You know that the Labour Party nationally have said that they are eager to see far more doctors being trained. And certainly, in terms of nurse training, as you heard from the previous question, we are already training far more nurses than we were in the past; more than 69 per cent more than we have in the past. The difficulty is is that we have to retain people in the system; that's where the tension is. And we understand that there has been great deal of pressure on these people over the past two years. 

Minister, you'll know I've raised in the past my concerns about the length of delays at our hospitals—Ysbyty Gwynedd, Ysbyty Glan Clwyd and, of course, Maelor. Now, you'll also know that I believe that community hospitals, and in particular Llandudno district general hospital, have a key role to play in addressing some of these issues. I know that you've been listening, because a bridging service trial has now been undertaken at the Aberconwy ward, an operating theatre has been reintroduced, and a new stroke unit is going to be based there. I'd love a timescale on that, please. But there's more that can be done. Only 43.7 per cent of patients spent less than the four-hour target time at A&E Glan Clwyd, yet at MIU Llandudno the figure is a stomping 97.6 per cent. So there we have it: the MIU is performing exceptionally well. So, Minister, will you look at—? It hasn't got an overnight doctor and things like that, and there are ways where, I think, you could enhance provision in these community hospitals, and, without doubt, that will take the pressure of these larger hospitals, which are really struggling to cope. Thank you. 

Weinidog, fe fyddwch yn gwybod fy mod wedi mynegi fy mhryderon yn y gorffennol am hyd yr oedi yn ein hysbytai—Ysbyty Gwynedd, Ysbyty Glan Clwyd, ac wrth gwrs, Ysbyty Maelor Wrecsam. Nawr, fe fyddwch hefyd yn gwybod fy mod yn credu bod gan ysbytai cymunedol, ac yn enwedig ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth Llandudno, ran allweddol i'w chwarae i fynd i'r afael â rhai o'r materion hyn. Gwn eich bod wedi bod yn gwrando, gan fod treial gwasanaeth pontio wedi’i gynnal yn ward Aberconwy bellach, mae theatr lawdriniaethau wedi’i hailagor, ac mae uned strôc newydd yn mynd i gael ei lleoli yno. Carwn gael amserlen ar gyfer hynny, os gwelwch yn dda. Ond mae mwy y gellir ei wneud. Dim ond 43.7 y cant o gleifion a dreuliodd lai na’r amser targed o bedair awr yn adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys Ysbyty Glan Clwyd, ac eto, mae’r ffigur yn uned mân anafiadau Llandudno yn 97.6 y cant, sy'n anhygoel. Felly, dyna ni: mae'r uned mân anafiadau'n perfformio'n eithriadol o dda. Felly, Weinidog, a wnewch chi edrych ar—? Nid oes ganddynt feddyg dros nos a phethau felly, a chredaf fod yna ffyrdd y gallech wella’r ddarpariaeth yn yr ysbytai cymunedol hyn, a heb os, bydd hynny’n lleddfu rhywfaint ar y pwysau ar yr ysbytai mwy hyn, sy’n ei chael hi’n anodd iawn ymdopi. Diolch.

14:45

Thanks very much. I'm really pleased to hear that things are going from strength to strength in Llandudno, and, certainly, when I visited there, one of the things I really focused on was what are these people doing there, how long have they been here, what's the plan for these people, and it was clear. I met one man there, I remember, who'd had his leg amputated, but he was in a second floor flat. So, it was clear that he was never going to be able to go home, but they hadn't started working that out until he was coming to the end of his treatment. Well, you could have been working that out weeks before, so it's trying to get people to understand the need to work through those things. As soon as they come in through the door, what is the plan to exit these people? I'm really pleased to hear that that bridging service is working really well. And you're quite right—part of what we need to do now across the whole of Wales is to make sure that people understand that there are alternatives to A&E: that they can go to urgent primary care centres, that they can go to same-day emergency care centres, that they can phone 111, they can go their local pharmacy. All of these things are options that weren't there a few years ago, but we have got a plan, obviously, and we have been trying a campaign, Help Us to Help You, to make sure that people know where they should go to get the right help at the right place at the right time. 

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Rwy’n falch iawn o glywed bod pethau’n mynd o nerth i nerth yn Llandudno, ac yn sicr, pan ymwelais â’r ysbyty hwnnw, un o’r pethau y canolbwyntiais arnynt oedd beth y mae’r bobl hyn yn ei wneud yno, pa mor hir y maent wedi bod yma, beth yw'r cynllun ar gyfer y bobl hyn, ac roedd yn amlwg. Cyfarfûm ag un dyn yno, rwy'n cofio, a oedd wedi cael torri'i goes i ffwrdd, ond roedd yn byw mewn fflat ail lawr. Felly, roedd yn amlwg nad oedd yn mynd i allu mynd adref, ond nid oeddent wedi dechrau datrys y broblem honno hyd nes ei fod yn dod at ddiwedd ei driniaeth. Wel, gallech fod wedi dechrau datrys y broblem honno wythnosau ynghynt, felly mae a wnelo hyn â cheisio cael pobl i ddeall yr angen i weithio drwy'r pethau hynny. Cyn gynted ag y dônt i mewn drwy'r drws, beth yw'r cynllun ar gyfer rhyddhau'r bobl hyn? Rwy'n falch iawn o glywed bod y gwasanaeth pontio hwnnw'n gweithio'n dda iawn. Ac rydych yn llygad eich lle—rhan o'r hyn y mae angen inni ei wneud ledled Cymru gyfan yn awr yw sicrhau bod pobl yn deall bod dewisiadau eraill ar gael heblaw am adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys: y gallant fynd i ganolfannau gofal sylfaenol brys, gallant fynd i ganolfannau gofal brys ar yr un diwrnod, gallant ffonio 111, gallant fynd i'w fferyllfa leol. Mae’r holl bethau hyn yn opsiynau nad oedd ar gael rai blynyddoedd yn ôl, ond mae gennym gynllun, yn amlwg, ac rydym wedi bod yn rhoi cynnig ar ymgyrch, Helpwch Ni i’ch Helpu Chi, i sicrhau bod pobl yn gwybod i ble y dylent fynd i gael y cymorth iawn yn y lle iawn ar yr adeg iawn.

Canser y Coluddyn
Bowel Cancer

6. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n eu cymryd i fynd i'r afael â chanser y coluddyn? OQ58530

6. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to tackle bowel cancer? OQ58530

We're working to improve bowel cancer outcomes by improving diagnostic pathways, lowering the screening age in line with UK National Screening Committee recommendations, and improving the quality of bowel cancer treatment.

Rydym yn gweithio i wella canlyniadau canser y coluddyn drwy wella llwybrau diagnostig, gostwng yr oedran sgrinio yn unol ag argymhellion Pwyllgor Sgrinio Cenedlaethol y DU, a gwella ansawdd triniaeth canser y coluddyn.

Thank you, Minister. I'm really pleased to see the recent lowering of the bowel cancer screening age to 55, as we know that screening people earlier means cancer can be identified earlier. However, it is also important that treatment can be accessed as speedily as possible. So, I was concerned to note that, in July, just 36 per cent of lower gastrointestinal patients in Cwm Taf Morgannwg started their first treatment within 62 days of being suspected of having cancer. As you will know, that is significantly below the suspected cancer pathway performance target. So, what action is the Welsh Government taking to ensure rapid access to treatment? 

Diolch, Weinidog. Rwy'n falch iawn o weld yr oedran sgrinio ar gyfer canser y coluddyn yn gostwng yn ddiweddar i 55, gan y gwyddom fod sgrinio pobl yn gynharach yn golygu y gellir canfod canser yn gynharach. Fodd bynnag, mae hefyd yn bwysig y gellir cael mynediad at driniaeth cyn gynted â phosibl. Felly, roedd yn flin gennyf nodi, ym mis Gorffennaf, mai 36 y cant yn unig o gleifion â chanserau yn y bibell gastroberfeddol isaf yng Nghwm Taf Morgannwg a ddechreuodd eu triniaeth gyntaf o fewn 62 diwrnod i'r pwynt pan amheuid bod canser arnynt. Fel y gwyddoch, mae hynny’n sylweddol is na'r targed perfformiad ar gyfer llwybr lle’r amheuir canser. Felly, pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i sicrhau mynediad cyflym at driniaeth?

Thanks very much, Vikki. Those figures are clearly too low and unacceptable. That's one of the reasons why today I called a cancer summit meeting—a calling together all of the health boards and the leads for cancer in each of the health boards. One of the issues in particular in relation to lower gastrointestinal cancers is that we've seen, partly as a result of that increased screening, a 38 per cent increase in demand for the service—38 per cent. That's a huge increase, and clearly we didn't have the capacity to cope with that, and that explains why those levels are so low. But we've got to do something about that, and that's why it was heartening to hear this morning that Cwm Taf Morgannwg are going to increase the number of rooms in the mobile units at the treatment centres to carry out these operations, and that they've also confirmed a single optimal pathway, which makes sure that patients are sent directly to tests so that they don't have a long time waiting before they start on their journey to really try and get the support that they need.  

Diolch yn fawr, Vikki. Mae’r ffigurau hynny’n amlwg yn rhy isel ac yn annerbyniol. Dyna un o'r rhesymau pam y gelwais am gyfarfod uwchgynhadledd canser heddiw—gan alw'r holl fyrddau iechyd a'r arweinwyr canser ym mhob un o'r byrddau iechyd ynghyd. Un o'r materion yn fwyaf arbennig mewn perthynas â chanserau yn y bibell gastroberfeddol isaf yw ein bod wedi gweld, yn rhannol o ganlyniad i'r cynnydd mewn sgrinio, cynnydd o 38 y cant yn y galw am y gwasanaeth—38 y cant. Mae hwnnw'n gynnydd enfawr, ac yn amlwg, nid oedd gennym gapasiti i ymdopi â hynny, ac mae hynny'n egluro pam fod y lefelau hynny mor isel. Ond mae'n rhaid inni wneud rhywbeth am hynny, a dyna pam ei bod yn galonogol clywed y bore yma fod bwrdd Cwm Taf Morgannwg yn mynd i gynyddu nifer yr ystafelloedd yn yr unedau symudol yn y canolfannau triniaeth i gynnal y llawdriniaethau hyn, a'u bod hefyd wedi cadarnhau llwybr delfrydol sengl, sy'n sicrhau bod cleifion yn cael eu hanfon yn uniongyrchol am brofion fel nad oes ganddynt amser hir i aros cyn iddynt ddechrau ar eu taith i geisio cael y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt.

14:50

Minister, we all know that early diagnosis of bowel cancer is vital. It is a fact that nearly everyone who is diagnosed at the earliest stage will survive. Yet, for years, we have failed to detect this illness quickly enough in Wales. We were ranked twenty-fifth out of 29 European countries for our five-year survival rate. With half of bowel cancer patients being diagnosed at a late stage, four years ago, the United Kingdom National Screening Committee recommended that people aged 50 to 74 should be tested. In Wales, people aged between 50 and 55 are not yet being tested and will have to wait years before this age group is treated the same as elsewhere in the UK. This reprehensible performance by Welsh Ministers has put the lives of many people at risk. So, what action are you taking to ensure those between the age of 50 and 55 are supported now, before the screening age is lowered in two years' time? Thank you.

Weinidog, gŵyr pob un ohonom ei bod yn hanfodol cael diagnosis cynnar o ganser y coluddyn. Mae'n ffaith y bydd bron pawb sy'n cael diagnosis ar y cam cynharaf yn goroesi. Serch hynny, ers blynyddoedd, rydym wedi methu canfod y salwch hwn yn ddigon cyflym yng Nghymru. Roeddem yn bumed ar hugain allan o 29 o wledydd yn Ewrop ar gyfer y gyfradd oroesi pum mlynedd. Gyda hanner y cleifion canser y coluddyn yn cael diagnosis yn hwyrach, bedair blynedd yn ôl, argymhellodd Pwyllgor Sgrinio Cenedlaethol y Deyrnas Unedig y dylai pobl rhwng 50 a 74 oed gael prawf. Yng Nghymru, nid yw pobl rhwng 50 a 55 oed yn cael eu profi eto, a bydd rhaid inni aros am flynyddoedd cyn i’r grŵp oedran hwn gael ei drin yr un fath ag mewn mannau eraill yn y DU. Mae’r perfformiad gwarthus hwn gan Weinidogion Cymru wedi peryglu bywydau llawer o bobl. Felly, pa gamau yr ydych yn eu cymryd i sicrhau bod pobl rhwng 50 a 55 oed yn cael eu cefnogi yn awr, cyn i'r oedran sgrinio gael ei ostwng ymhen dwy flynedd? Diolch.

Thank you. I'm glad to see that we've reduced the age at which we're now sending out faecal immunochemical tests to the over-55s, but you're right, we've got to go further, but we've got to do it at the same time as increasing capacity. We are now looking at training more clinicians, so that when that demand—and you've heard that demand, a 38 per cent increase—. That is a huge increase, so you've got to prepare for that. We've got new equipment and new facilities, and I'm sure you will have heard also, at the beginning of the week, about our rapid diagnostic centres that are the first to be rolled out in the United Kingdom, and that should also help as well. So, all of those things will come in, but there's no point expanding until we're ready to support the people when they get the diagnosis. So, we're at that point—we're building the capacity. Certainly, I was heartened to hear this morning that those measures and those steps are being put in place across Wales.

Diolch. Rwy'n falch o weld ein bod bellach wedi gostwng yr oedran yr ydym yn anfon profion imiwnocemegol ar ysgarthion i bobl dros 55 oed, ond rydych yn llygad eich lle, mae'n rhaid inni wneud mwy, ond mae'n rhaid inni wneud hynny ar yr un pryd â chynyddu capasiti. Rydym wrthi'n edrych ar hyfforddi mwy o glinigwyr er mwyn sicrhau, pan fydd y galw hwnnw—ac rydych wedi clywed am y galw hwnnw, cynnydd o 38 y cant—. Mae hwnnw'n gynnydd enfawr, felly rhaid ichi baratoi ar gyfer hynny. Mae gennym offer newydd a chyfleusterau newydd, ac rwy’n siŵr y byddwch wedi clywed hefyd, ddechrau’r wythnos, am ein canolfannau diagnosis cyflym, y rhai cyntaf i gael eu cyflwyno yn y Deyrnas Unedig, a dylai hynny fod o gymorth hefyd. Felly, bydd yr holl bethau hynny'n cael eu cyflwyno, ond nid oes diben ehangu hyd nes ein bod yn barod i gefnogi'r bobl pan fyddant yn cael y diagnosis. Felly, rydym ar y pwynt hwnnw—rydym yn adeiladu'r capasiti. Yn sicr, roedd yn galonogol clywed y bore yma fod y mesurau hynny a’r camau hynny'n cael eu rhoi ar waith ledled Cymru.

E-sigaréts
E-cigarettes

7. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n eu cymryd i hyrwyddo e-sigaréts i ysmygwyr? OQ58526

7. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to promote e-cigarettes to smokers? OQ58526

Whilst we recognise that e-cigarettes are being used by some of those wanting to quit smoking, the evidence around their long-term impact is still emerging. We intend to look closely at our policy on e-cigarettes in Wales, including for smoking cessation, as part of our new tobacco control delivery plan.

Er ein bod yn cydnabod bod e-sigaréts yn cael eu defnyddio gan rai pobl sydd am roi’r gorau i ysmygu, mae’r dystiolaeth ynghylch eu heffaith hirdymor yn dal i ddatblygu. Rydym yn bwriadu edrych yn fanwl ar ein polisi ar e-sigaréts yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys ar gyfer rhoi’r gorau i ysmygu, fel rhan o’n cynllun cyflawni newydd ar reoli tybaco.

Thank you, Deputy Minister. On Tuesday of last week, in First Minister's questions, the First Minister said that the evidence is that, for most people who use an e-cigarette, it is as well as and not instead of a conventional cigarette—85 per cent in recent studies show a dual use. That is what he said. My office spoke to ASH Wales soon after, and they are not sure where this figure has come from. They also asked their sister organisation, ASH UK, and they also don't seem to know where this figure has come from. The stat seems to contradict the GP survey marks that vaping is most prevalent within the ex-smoker group. Minister, in Wales, the average percentage of smokers is 18 per cent and just 7 per cent for e-cigarettes. Of those using e-cigarettes, 76 per cent use them to quit smoking. So, Minister, don't you think it's time you started recognising e-cigarettes for their benefits and their role in weaning smokers off cigarettes so that we can finally reduce our smoking numbers in Wales?

Diolch, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Ddydd Mawrth diwethaf, yn y cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog, dywedodd y Prif Weinidog mai’r dystiolaeth yw, i’r rhan fwyaf o bobl sy’n defnyddio e-sigarét, eu bod yn gwneud hynny yn ogystal ag yn hytrach nag yn lle sigaréts confensiynol—nodwyd defnydd deuol gan 85 y cant mewn astudiaethau diweddar. Dyna a ddywedodd. Siaradodd fy swyddfa ag ASH Cymru yn fuan wedyn, ac nid ydynt yn siŵr o ble y daeth y ffigur hwn. Fe wnaethant ofyn hefyd i'w chwaer-sefydliad, ASH UK, ac nid yw'n ymddangos eu bod hwythau ychwaith yn gwybod o ble y daeth y ffigur hwn. Ymddengys bod yr ystadegyn yn gwrth-ddweud canfyddiad arolwg y meddygon teulu fod defnyddio e-sigaréts yn fwyaf cyffredin o fewn y grŵp cyn-ysmygwyr. Weinidog, yng Nghymru, y ganran gyfartalog o ysmygwyr yw 18 y cant, a dim ond 7 y cant ar gyfer e-sigaréts. O'r rhai sy'n defnyddio e-sigaréts, mae 76 y cant yn eu defnyddio i roi'r gorau i ysmygu. Felly, Weinidog, onid ydych yn credu ei bod yn bryd ichi ddechrau cydnabod manteision e-sigaréts a’u rôl yn diddyfnu ysmygwyr oddi ar sigaréts fel y gallwn leihau o'r diwedd y niferoedd sy'n ysmygu yng Nghymru?

Thank you to Laura Anne Jones for that. Smoking is, of course, extremely damaging to health, and stopping smoking is the single most important step someone can take to improve their health. We recognise that, for some people, e-cigarettes and other nicotine products are being used to help them to stop smoking, and current evidence suggests they are substantially less harmful than smoking tobacco. We know that around seven in 10 smokers want to quit, and our free NHS service, Help Me Quit, is available to support smokers and, since 2017, has helped over 75,000 smokers. We know that getting NHS support increases smokers' chances of success by up to 300 per cent compared to going it alone. As with other unlicensed nicotine-containing products, Help Me Quit service providers cannot provide access to e-cigarettes until such a time that there are licensed options available for us to consider. In July, we published our new tobacco strategy, 'A smoke-free Wales', where we set out our ambition for Wales to become smoke free by 2030. We have historically had a cautious approach to e-cigarette products in Wales given the evidence on their long-term effects is still developing and their potential appeal to children and young people. We are very clear that e-cigarettes should never be used by children, young people and non-smokers. As part of our tobacco delivery plan, we intend to look closely at our policy position on e-cigarettes in Wales, including their role in tobacco-smoking cessation. Reports of the increase in use of e-cigarettes by children is very concerning. We will also be looking at what more could be done to prevent their use by children and young people.

Diolch i Laura Anne Jones. Mae ysmygu, wrth gwrs, yn hynod niweidiol i iechyd, a rhoi'r gorau i ysmygu yw'r un cam pwysicaf y gall rhywun ei gymryd i wella eu hiechyd. Rydym yn cydnabod, i rai pobl, fod e-sigaréts a chynhyrchion nicotin eraill yn cael eu defnyddio i’w helpu i roi’r gorau i ysmygu, ac mae tystiolaeth gyfredol yn awgrymu eu bod yn llawer llai niweidiol nag ysmygu tybaco. Gwyddom fod oddeutu saith o bob 10 ysmygwr yn dymuno rhoi’r gorau iddi, ac mae ein gwasanaeth GIG rhad ac am ddim, Helpa Fi i Stopio, ar gael i gefnogi ysmygwyr, ac ers 2017, mae wedi helpu dros 75,000 o ysmygwyr. Gwyddom fod cael cymorth gan y GIG yn cynyddu gobaith ysmygwyr o lwyddo hyd at 300 y cant o gymharu â cheisio rhoi'r gorau iddi ar eu pen eu hunain. Fel gyda chynhyrchion didrwydded eraill sy'n cynnwys nicotin, ni all darparwyr gwasanaeth Helpa Fi i Stopio ddarparu mynediad at e-sigaréts hyd nes bod opsiynau trwyddedig ar gael i ni eu hystyried. Ym mis Gorffennaf, cyhoeddwyd ein strategaeth tybaco newydd, 'Cymru Ddi-fwg’, lle gwnaethom nodi ein huchelgais i Gymru ddod yn ddi-fwg erbyn 2030. Yn hanesyddol, rydym wedi mabwysiadu ymagwedd ofalus tuag at gynhyrchion e-sigaréts yng Nghymru o gofio bod y dystiolaeth ar eu heffeithiau hirdymor yn dal i ddatblygu, ynghyd â’u hapêl bosibl i blant a phobl ifanc. Rydym yn glir iawn na ddylai plant, pobl ifanc a phobl nad ydynt yn ysmygu ddefnyddio e-sigaréts ar unrhyw gyfrif. Fel rhan o’n cynllun cyflawni ar dybaco, rydym yn bwriadu edrych yn fanwl ar ein safbwynt polisi ar e-sigaréts yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys eu rôl ar gyfer rhoi'r gorau i ysmygu tybaco. Mae adroddiadau am y cynnydd yn y defnydd o e-sigaréts gan blant yn peri cryn bryder. Byddwn hefyd yn edrych ar beth arall y gellir ei wneud i atal plant a phobl ifanc rhag eu defnyddio.

14:55
Brechu COVID-19
COVID-19 Vaccination

8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am gyflwyno'r rhaglen frechu COVID-19? OQ58516

8. Will the Minister provide an update on the delivery of the COVID-19 vaccination programme? OQ58516

As of 11 October, a total of 363,000 COVID-19 vaccination boosters have been administered in Wales. The programme is on track for all eligible people to receive an invitation for their booster by 30 November, in line with the commitment given in our winter respiratory vaccination strategy, which was published on 15 July.

Hyd at 11 Hydref, roedd cyfanswm o 363,000 o bigiadau atgyfnerthu COVID-19 wedi’u rhoi yng Nghymru. Mae’r rhaglen ar y trywydd iawn i roi gwahoddiad i'r holl bobl gymwys gael eu pigiad atgyfnerthu erbyn 30 Tachwedd, yn unol â’r ymrwymiad a roddwyd yn ein strategaeth frechu’r gaeaf yn erbyn feirysau anadlol, a gyhoeddwyd gennym ar 15 Gorffennaf.

Thank you, Minister. That's excellent news. The vaccine, of course, is the most effective way to defend ourselves against COVID, and, in order to live with the virus, it's incumbent on us all to accept the jab when it's available to us. It's also vital that the roll-out of the programme continues in the most efficient and equitable way. Are you confident that people are able to have the vaccine in a consistent time frame across all communities and for each age group in Wales?

Diolch, Weinidog. Dyna newyddion rhagorol. Y brechlyn, wrth gwrs, yw'r ffordd fwyaf effeithiol o ddiogelu ein hunain rhag COVID, ac er mwyn byw gyda'r feirws, mae'n ddyletswydd ar bob un ohonom i gael y pigiad pan fydd ar gael i ni. Mae hefyd yn hanfodol fod y broses o gyflwyno'r rhaglen yn parhau yn y ffordd fwyaf effeithlon a theg. A ydych yn hyderus fod pobl yn gallu cael y brechlyn o fewn amserlen gyson ar draws pob cymuned ac ar gyfer pob grŵp oedran yng Nghymru?

Thanks very much. Well, we are talking about trying to get this booster to 1.6 million eligible people in Wales. That's being delivered through 400 vaccination sites, so I think that does give you the coverage that should allow people to take up that opportunity. As I say, our target is to get to a 75 per cent uptake of that cohort, and so far we're on track. So, we're getting to it. I'm slightly concerned that we're not getting the response from health and care workers that I had hoped we'd get, so I would encourage people to try and encourage those health and care workers in particular to take up that opportunity, in addition, of course, to vulnerable people, and to come forward if it's offered. I know that, in Clwyd South, for example, 34 per cent of the people eligible have already had their vaccinations. 

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Wel, rydym yn sôn am geisio darparu'r pigiad atgyfnerthu i 1.6 miliwn o bobl gymwys yng Nghymru. Mae'r gwaith hwnnw'n cael ei gyflawni drwy 400 o safleoedd brechu, felly credaf fod y ddarpariaeth honno'n ddigonol i ganiatáu i bobl fanteisio ar y cyfle hwnnw. Fel y dywedaf, ein targed yw cyrraedd 75 y cant o'r garfan honno, a hyd yn hyn, rydym ar y trywydd iawn i gyflawni'r targed hwnnw. Felly, rydym yn gwneud cynnydd. Rwyf ychydig yn bryderus nad ydym yn cael yr ymateb gan weithwyr iechyd a gofal yr oeddwn wedi gobeithio'i gael, felly hoffwn annog pobl i geisio annog y gweithwyr iechyd a gofal hynny'n benodol i fanteisio ar y cyfle, yn ogystal, wrth gwrs, â phobl agored i niwed, ac i'w gael os caiff ei gynnig. Yn Ne Clwyd, er enghraifft, gwn fod 34 y cant o’r bobl sy’n gymwys eisoes wedi cael eu brechiadau.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Wythnos diwethaf, Weinidog, ges i—

Thank you very much. Last week, Minister—

Y cwestiwn ar y papur trefn, plis.

The question on the order paper, please, again.

Sori, sori, dwi'n neidio ymlaen gormod.

Sorry, I skipped ahead.

Lefelau Staffio'r GIG
NHS Staffing Levels

9. Pa asesiad y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i gynnal o lefelau staffio'r GIG yng nghanolbarth a gorllewin Cymru? OQ58544

9. What assessment has the Welsh Government undertaken of NHS staffing levels in mid and west Wales? OQ58544

Diolch yn fawr. Mae gweithlu Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Hywel Dda nawr wedi cyrraedd lefel na welwyd erioed o’r blaen. Ond, rŷn ni’n cydnabod yr heriau o ran y gweithlu yn y canolbarth a’r gorllewin ar yr un pryd â’r pwysau sydd ar wasanaethau yn sgil galw sylweddol.

Thank you very much. The Hywel Dda University Health Board workforce is now at record levels, but we recognise the workforce challenges in mid and west Wales alongside significant demand pressures on services.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Yr wythnos diwethaf, fel dywedais i, ges i'r pleser o gwrdd â'r RCN fan hyn yn y Senedd i gael trafod eu hadroddiad diweddaraf, ac yn y nos ges i'r pleser o gwrdd â nifer o nyrsys o ranbarth y gorllewin a'r canolbarth a chlywed am y pwysau gwaith aruthrol maen nhw'n ei wynebu: prinder staff; tâl annigonol; morâl yn isel; ac yn dweud eu bod nhw wedi blino'n lân; teimlo'n ddigalon achos bod nhw'n methu gwneud eu gwaith yn iawn; problemau strategol megis cynlluniau annigonol i gadw nyrsys yn eu gwaith; recriwtio annigonol; cynllunio cefnogaeth i'r gweithlu, ac yn y blaen. Felly, ynghyd â'u cyflogau isel ac amodau gwaith heriol, dyw hi ddim yn syndod, felly, fod cymaint o nyrsys yn gadael y sector. Ond y broblem yw, ar draws ardal Hywel Dda, fod tua 540 o swyddi gwag ar gyfer nyrsys cofrestredig, gyda'r uchaf yng Nghymru, ac mae'r bwrdd iechyd yma hefyd gyda'r uchaf yn cyflogi nyrsys sy'n cael eu talu gan asiantaeth. Mae hwn wedi codi 46 y cant yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf ac yn costio'n agos i £29 miliwn. Felly, ac ystyried hyn, Weinidog, pa gamau fyddwch chi'n eu cymryd i greu strategaeth ar gyfer cadw mwy o nyrsys yn y proffesiwn?

Thank you very much. Last week, as I said, I had the pleasure of meeting with the RCN here in the Senedd to discuss their latest report, and in the evening I had the pleasure of meeting a number of nurses from the mid and west Wales region. I heard about the huge work pressures that they're facing: a lack of staff; insufficient pay; morale being low; and they said that they were exhausted, that they were disheartened because they couldn't do their work as they wished to. There are also strategic problems, such as insufficient planning to retain nurses, insufficient recruitment and planning of support for the workforce, and so on. So, alongside the low wages and challenging working environment, I'm not surprised that so many nurses are leaving the sector. The problem is that, across the Hywel Dda area, there are around 540 registered nurse vacancies. This is amongst the highest in Wales. This health board also has one of the highest levels of nurses employed via agencies. This has increased 46 per cent over the past year and costs close to £29 million. So, bearing all of this in mind, Minister, what steps will you be taking to put together a strategy for retaining more nurses in the profession?

Diolch yn fawr. Mae hon yn ardal lle dwi wedi gofyn i'm swyddogion i wirioneddol edrych arni yn fanwl. Mae'n anodd gwneud hyn, achos, fel rŷch chi'n gallu dychmygu, o ran retention, os oes 1,000 o bobl gyda chi off yn sâl gyda COVID, beth ŷch chi’n mynd i’w wneud i lenwi’r gwagle oedd yna? Sut ŷch chi’n mynd i gymryd pwysau off y bobl sydd yn gorfod gwneud i fyny am y gwagleoedd yna? Ac os nad ydym ni’n defnyddio pobl o asiantaeth, mae’r pwysau arnyn nhw’n mynd i fod yn waeth. Nawr, dwi’n anhapus iawn o ran faint rŷn ni’n gwario ar asiantaeth ar hyn o bryd, a dyna pam dwi wedi gofyn i HEIW ganolbwyntio ar y gwaith yma ac i sicrhau ein bod ni’n gweithredu gyda’r undebau, yn gyflym, i sicrhau ein bod ni mewn sefyllfa well. Ond, ar ddiwedd y dydd, beth sydd ei angen yw cael mwy o nyrsys i aros ac i gario ymlaen gyda’r hyfforddiant rŷn ni’n gwneud. Ond mae’n rhaid dweud bod Hywel Dda nawr â lefelau staffio ar lefelau sydd heb gael eu gweld o’r blaen. Mae 11,000 o bobl yn gweithio i’r bwrdd iechyd, ac, o ran nyrsys, mae 136 yn fwy nag oedd yno dair blynedd yn ôl. Felly, mae mwy nag oedd yna. Y drafferth yw bod y galw yn mynd i fyny drwy’r amser, a dyna yw’r broblem. Mae’n poblogaeth ni’n heneiddio, mae’r pwysau’n waeth. Felly, mae’n bwysig ein bod ni’n gwneud y cynllunio strategol yna ar gyfer gweithlu’r dyfodol.

Thank you very much. This is an area that I have asked my officials to focus on. It's difficult to do it, because, as you can imagine, in terms of retention, if you have 1,000 people off sick with COVID, what are you going to do to fill those vacancies? How are you going to take the pressure off those people who have to make up for that sick leave? And if we don't use agency nurses, then the pressures are going to be even greater. Now, I'm very unhappy in terms of how much we spend on agency staff at the moment, and that's why I've asked HEIW to focus on this work and to ensure that we work with the unions, quickly, to ensure that we're in a better position. But, at the end of the day, what's needed is to convince more nurses to remain and to continue with training provision. But I have to say that the staffing levels in Hywel Dda are now at unprecedented levels. Eleven thousand people work for the health board, and, in terms of nurses, there are 136 more than there were three years ago. So, there are more staff. But the demand is increasing constantly, and that's the problem. We have an ageing population and so the pressures are greater. So, it is important that we do that strategic planning for the future workforce.

15:00

Thank you, Llywydd. Minister, during the recent Petitions Committee debate, you said,

'it's simply inaccurate to suggest that extending section 25B to all of those areas would result in giving Wales "the full team of nurses", as the petition puts it, and that's simply because, at the moment, those nurses don't exist.'

What I'm just trying to rectify, myself, and give you an opportunity to expand and clarify, is that the Welsh Government—yourself—claim there are various recruitment strategies, including international recruitment as well, and you talk about record investment in education and training programmes. So, surely, if that is the case, those two don’t really sit with each other. I wonder if you can, perhaps, give some further context to your comments during the Petitions Committee debate.

Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, yn ystod dadl Pwyllgor Deisebau yn ddiweddar, fe ddywedoch chi,

'mae'n anghywir awgrymu y byddai ymestyn adran 25B i gynnwys pob un o'r meysydd hynny'n arwain at roi'r "tîm llawn o nyrsys" i Gymru, fel y mae'r ddeiseb yn ei roi, a hynny'n syml am nad yw'r nyrsys hynny'n bodoli ar hyn o bryd.'

Yr hyn rwy'n ceisio ei gywiro, fy hun, a rhoi cyfle i chi ehangu ac egluro, yw bod Llywodraeth Cymru—chi eich hun—yn honni bod yna strategaethau recriwtio amrywiol, gan gynnwys recriwtio rhyngwladol hefyd, ac rydych chi'n siarad am y buddsoddiadau uchaf erioed mewn rhaglenni addysg a hyfforddiant. Felly, os yw hynny'n wir, nid yw'r ddau beth yn gyson â'i gilydd. Tybed a wnewch chi roi ychydig o gyd-destun pellach, efallai, i'ch sylwadau yn ystod y ddadl Pwyllgor Deisebau.

Okay, so, when you write a law, you've got to comply with the law, and if the law says, 'You've got have x many nurses in a particular ward', you've got to comply with that law. If you can't do that because you don’t have the nurses, you're in breach of the law. So, what's the point of writing a law that you know you can't comply with? And at the moment, it's really difficult for us to comply because we don't have enough nurses.

So, what we need, and I accept that—. We're already doing a lot in terms of workforce recruitment. We're training more than we’ve ever trained before. We're doing international recruitment. But I do think that what we need to do now is to focus on retention, because we're losing people as fast as we’re training them. So, that's the area that I think that we need to focus on. And if we can do that we'll be in a much, much better position. These people are exhausted. They've been working their socks off for two years. So, we do need to give them the support—so, working with the unions and with HEIW to really understand what is the pressure and what more can we do to take the pressure off them—and then we'll be in a position to starting writing laws that we can comply with.

Iawn, felly, pan fyddwch chi'n llunio deddf, mae'n rhaid ichi gydymffurfio â'r gyfraith, ac os yw'r gyfraith yn dweud, 'Rhaid i chi gael x o nyrsys mewn ward benodol', mae'n rhaid ichi gydymffurfio â'r gyfraith honno. Os na allwch wneud hynny am nad oes gennych chi'r nyrsys, rydych chi'n torri'r gyfraith. Felly, beth yw'r pwynt llunio deddf y gwyddoch na allwch gydymffurfio â hi? Ac ar hyn o bryd, mae'n anodd iawn inni gydymffurfio am nad oes gennym ddigon o nyrsys.

Felly, yr hyn sydd ei angen arnom, ac rwy'n derbyn hynny—. Rydym eisoes yn gwneud llawer ar recriwtio gweithlu. Rydym yn hyfforddi mwy nag a wnaethom erioed o'r blaen. Rydym yn recriwtio'n rhyngwladol. Ond rwy'n credu mai'r hyn sydd angen inni ei wneud yn awr yw canolbwyntio ar gadw staff, oherwydd rydym yn colli pobl mor gyflym ag yr ydym yn eu hyfforddi. Felly, dyna'r maes y credaf fod angen inni ganolbwyntio arno. Ac os gallwn ni wneud hynny fe fyddwn mewn sefyllfa lawer iawn gwell. Mae'r bobl yma wedi blino'n lân. Maent wedi bod yn gweithio'n galed iawn ers dwy flynedd. Felly, mae angen inni roi cefnogaeth iddynt—felly, gweithio gyda'r undebau a'r AaGIC i ddeall yn iawn beth yw'r pwysau a beth arall y gallwn ei wneud i dynnu'r pwysau oddi arnynt—ac yna byddwn mewn sefyllfa i ddechrau llunio deddfau y gallwn gydymffurfio â hwy.

3. Cwestiynau Amserol
3. Topical Questions

Does yna ddim cwestiynau o dan eitem 3.

No topical questions are accepted under item 3.

4. Datganiadau 90 Eiliad
4. 90-second Statements

Eitem 4, felly, yw'r datganiadau 90 eiliad. Mae'r unig ddatganiad y prynhawn yma gan Heledd Fychan.

Item 4 is the 90-second statements. The only statement today is from Heledd Fychan.

Diolch, Llywydd. A hithau wedi bod yn Ddiwrnod Rhyngwladol Iechyd Meddwl ar 10 Hydref, hoffwn gymryd y cyfle heddiw i ddathlu un grŵp penodol yn fy rhanbarth, sef y Metalidads.

Thank you, Llywydd. Bearing in mind that it was World Mental Health Day on 10 October, I would like to take the opportunity today to celebrate one particular group in my region, namely the Metalidads.

The Metalidads, also known as the Fathers of Metal, bring together that holy trinity of fatherhood, mental health and heavy metal and meet twice weekly in the town of Barry to encourage local dads to get out of the house and away from the children and partners in order to form new friendships and get involved in fun activities and initiatives such as beach litter picks, fundraising for local causes, family film clubs, grub and games night, going to gigs and even learning how to French plait their children's hair, ready for when they go to school.  

Using their social media platform, they discuss taboo topics such as depression, trouble conceiving children, child bereavement, autism diagnosis, tackling awkward toddler sleeping patterns and struggles within a marriage as a way of destigmatising serious talking points and to support each other through different lived experiences.  

This year, Metalidads have reached out and engaged with and interviewed multiple globally recognized bands and musicians in heavy metal royalty to normalise the question of 'Are you okay?'

Mae'r Metalidads, a adwaenir hefyd fel y Fathers of Metal, yn dwyn ynghyd y drindod sanctaidd honno, sef tadolaeth, iechyd meddwl a cherddoriaeth metel trwm ac yn cyfarfod ddwywaith yr wythnos yn nhref y Barri i annog tadau lleol i ddod allan o'r tŷ ac i ffwrdd oddi wrth y plant a'r partneriaid er mwyn ffurfio cyfeillgarwch newydd a chymryd rhan mewn gweithgareddau a mentrau hwyliog fel casglu sbwriel traeth, codi arian ar gyfer achosion lleol, clybiau ffilm i deuluoedd, nosweithiau bwyd a gemau, mynd i gigs a hyd yn oed dysgu sut i blethu gwallt eu plant yn barod ar gyfer yr adeg pan fyddant yn mynd i'r ysgol.  

Gan ddefnyddio eu platfform cyfryngau cymdeithasol, maent yn trafod pynciau tabŵ fel iselder, trafferthion cenhedlu plant, profedigaeth yn sgil colli plant, diagnosis o awtistiaeth, ymdopi â phatrymau cysgu trafferthus plant bach a thrafferthion priodasol fel ffordd o ddadstigmateiddio pynciau siarad difrifol ac i gefnogi ei gilydd drwy wahanol brofiadau bywyd.  

Eleni, mae Metalidads wedi estyn allan ac wedi ymgysylltu â nifer o fandiau a cherddorion sy'n enwog yn fyd-eang ym myd cerddoriaeth metel trwm, ac wedi eu cyfweld, er mwyn normaleiddio'r cwestiwn 'Wyt ti'n iawn?'

Mae grwpiau o'r fath mor bwysig o ran cefnogi rhieni, a dwi'n siŵr bydd fy nghyd-Aelodau yn cytuno bod angen inni gefnogi sefydliadau a mentrau lleol yn ein cymunedau sy'n cynnig y math yma o gefnogaeth sydd yn achub bywydau. Yn sicr, fe ges i groeso cynnes iawn gan y Metalidads, a chael budd mawr o'u cyfarfod.

Such groups are so important to support parents, and I'm sure that my fellow Members will agree that we need to support local organisations and initiatives in our communities that offer this kind of support that saves lives. Indeed, I received a very warm welcome by the Metalidads and derived great benefit from meeting them.

To end with a frequently used quote by the Fathers of Metal,

'whether it's whammy bars or weaning, Napalm Death or nappies...it's always good to talk.'

Rock on.

Rwyf am orffen gyda dyfyniad a ddefnyddir yn aml gan y Fathers of Metal,

'boed yn far tremolo neu'n ddiddyfnu, yn Napalm Death neu'n glytiau...mae hi bob amser yn dda i siarad.'

Rociwch ymlaen.

15:05
5. Dadl ar Adroddiad Pwyllgor yr Economi, Masnach a Materion Gwledig: Adolygiad o Reoliadau Adnoddau Dŵr (Rheoli Llygredd Amaethyddol) (Cymru) 2021
5. Debate on the Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee Report: Review of the Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) Regulations 2021

Eitem 5 yw'r eitem nesaf, dadl ar adroddiad Pwyllgor yr Economi, Masnach a Materion Gwledig ar adolygiad o Reoliadau Adnoddau Dŵr (Rheoli Llygredd Amaethyddol) (Cymru) 2021. Dwi'n galw ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i gyflwyno'r cynnig. Paul Davies.

Item 5 is the next item, the debate on the Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee report on the review of the Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) Regulations 2021. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion. Paul Davies.

Cynnig NDM8090 Paul Davies

Cynnig bod y Senedd:

Yn nodi adroddiad Pwyllgor yr Economi, Masnach a Materion Gwledig ar ei Ymchwiliad: Adolygiad o’r Rheoliadau Adnoddau Dŵr (Rheoli Llygredd Amaethyddol) (Cymru) 2021, a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 8 Mehefin 2022.

Motion NDM8090 Paul Davies

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee on its Inquiry: Review of The Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) Regulations 2021, which was laid in the Table Office on 8 June 2022.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Llywydd, and I move the motion tabled in my name. Llywydd, it feels like a long time ago that the Senedd unanimously passed a motion for a committee to urgently review the Welsh Government's Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) Regulations 2021. And that's because it was.

The Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee took this task extremely seriously, agreeing to embark on this review at our first meeting. However, as Members will be aware, the committee's report was delayed because of a judicial review into the legality of the regulations, which was out of the committee's hands. That judicial review was important to this debate, not just to explain why the committee's report took so long to produce, but also to highlight just how significant these regulations are.

Whilst all regulations we vote on are important, these agricultural pollution regulations affect things that are core to sustaining life in Wales—food production, our water quality and the wider environment. The Welsh Government believe that the regulations will ultimately reduce pollution in our rivers, avoid pollution swapping and prevent or minimise increased losses of nutrients in the environment. The Minister made it very clear that by taking this approach the regulations deliver against a wide range of Wales's responsibilities and provide a holistic response to environmental challenges related to agricultural production.

Nevertheless, in order to implement these regulations, many farmers will be required to undertake compliance work, which will include significant construction work at a significant cost, and that could threaten their viability. Therefore, it's crucial that these regulations set the right balance between protecting our natural environment and maintaining a workable regulatory system for Welsh farmers.

Now, before I run through the report and its recommendations, I just want to highlight the Welsh Government's response to our report and its relevance to this debate. The Welsh Government's response was due on 14 September, and yet it was eventually laid on 5 October, which was the absolute deadline for inclusion on today's Plenary agenda. This delay severely hampered Members' ability to scrutinise the Government's response, and as such it has an impact on this debate. Therefore, I sincerely hope that in the future all Ministers will reflect on the importance of responding to Senedd committee reports in a timely manner, so that we can have fully informed debates on Senedd committee reports.

Now, the Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee launched a consultation on the regulations, which ran over the summer of 2021, and a wide range of stakeholders—including anglers, farmers and environmental organisations—responded to the consultation. Members will not be surprised to know that the regulations have proved controversial. In response to our consultation, farmers have referred to them as 'draconian' and 'punitive', and they raised concerns that they will be prohibitively expensive to implement and may push farms out of business.

On the other hand, we received evidence from environmental organisations and anglers who welcomed the regulations, arguing that they are long overdue. They told us that the current system does not deter the worst agricultural polluters, and that action in the form of these regulations went some way to curb the pollution in our rivers. So, as a committee, we were acutely aware that these regulations needed to strike the right balance and were as effective as possible. Once the judicial review had concluded, the committee was able to continue with our inquiry and lay our report. 

Llywydd, it contains 10 recommendations, and, as time is limited this afternoon, I'd like to concentrate on three specific areas: support for implementation, derogations, and concerns around farming by calendar. Firstly, one of the pressing issues raised was the cost to farmers of implementing these regulations, and it was made pretty clear to the committee that farms could be put out of business. Therefore, I was pleased to see a commitment from the Welsh Government of an additional £20 million to help farmers implement these regulations, as was made clear in the written statement that accompanied the Welsh Government's response to the committee's report. I'm also pleased to see a commitment from the Welsh Government to provide the committee with a detailed breakdown of the provisions being made, including direct financial support and additional funding to advisory services. And perhaps in responding to this debate, the Minister will confirm when the committee can expect that information.

Similarly, there needs to be support for public bodies. Natural Resources Wales have estimated that they will require 60 additional staff to deliver the bare minimum, with possibly over 200 staff members needed to deliver the full product of enforcement around these regulations. Of course, a patchy, under-resourced enforcement regime will give us the worst of both worlds, and I was a little concerned to read in the Government's response that the service level agreement for the regulations has not yet been agreed by Natural Resources Wales and the Welsh Government. Surely Natural Resources Wales will need time to recruit and train additional staff, and so it's vital that a service level agreement is put in place as soon as possible. So, I do hope the Minister will give us an update on its development and any further information she has on how long it may take Natural Resources Wales to be in a position to enforce these regulations.

Llywydd, the committee also received some concerns regarding derogations. We were concerned that the withdrawal of the derogation for qualifying grassland farms would put Welsh farmers at a competitive disadvantage, and so we recommended that the Welsh Government reintroduces the derogation that allowed qualifying grassland farms to spread up to 250 kg per hectare of nitrogen. Farming unions warned that the decision not to include the derogation could require destocking on many Welsh farms, with impacts on farm viability, critical mass within the supply chain and employment, and that the lower rate of 170 kg per hectare could lead to the offshoring of production to countries with lower standards. Therefore, I'm pleased to see, in the written statement accompanying the Government's response, that Welsh farms will now be able to apply for a licence to spread a higher amount of nitrogen. And I do hope the Minister will today provide assurances to Welsh farmers that this measure will not result in further bureaucracy for them.

Finally, I want to mention farming by calendar. Part 5 of the Welsh Government's regulations stipulates closed periods, when spreading is prohibited. And whilst there are exceptions for some holding and soil types, the closed period runs from October to January, with some further restrictions running until the end of February. The committee heard strong arguments about the importance of flexibility for farmers in when they spread slurry, and that was really reinforced to us during our committee trip to the Agriculture Research Centre at Gelli Aur in Carmarthenshire. We had already heard great things about their work on slurry processing and the use of technology to determine the best time to spread. During the visit, we were shown equipment that supports an app the centre has been developing. It was an impressive combination of a weather station and sensors that monitor the conditions, where the information gathered is fed into an app that processes the data and gives farmers a red, amber or green status for spreading slurry. We were told that the system was tested during the 2021-22 closed period, and the findings were that the app was showing a green status for spreading through February and March, meaning that the weather and ground conditions meant it was fine to spread slurry. However, almost as soon as the closed period ended, the app flagged the conditions as red, indicating it was not suitable for spreading slurry. Of course, we are all very aware of how unpredictable the weather can be, so it's vital that farmers are allowed to move over to a technology-backed system based on real world, live conditions, not a calendar system based on seasonal averages, as soon as possible.

The committee recommended that the Welsh Government should prioritise any suitable alternative proposals that utilise technology rather than closed periods for spreading, and, whilst I very much welcome the Welsh Government’s openness to new suggestions, I am disappointed their response puts the onus on the farming community rather than the Government proactively pursuing technological alternatives to farming by calendar. Therefore, I hope the Minister will reflect on this and give it further consideration.

Llywydd, the committee's report covers everything from water quality data to enforcement and incorporating the regulations into national minimum standards, and I urge every Member in this Chamber to read our report. We have asked the Welsh Government to review the effectiveness of alternative technological measures, to be fully transparent about the funding support available to farmers, and to provide assurances that there is adequate resourcing and guidance for Natural Resources Wales to monitor and enforce these regulations. As a committee, we intend to keep reviewing these regulations in the months and years ahead to ensure their effectiveness, and so, on that note, Llywydd, I look forward to Members' contributions to this debate. Diolch.

Diolch, Lywydd, ac rwy'n gwneud y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn fy enw. Lywydd, mae'n teimlo fel amser maith er pan basiodd y Senedd gynnig yn unfrydol dros gael pwyllgor i adolygu Rheoliadau Adnoddau Dŵr Llywodraeth Cymru (Rheoli Llygredd Amaethyddol) (Cymru) 2021 ar fyrder. A'r rheswm am hynny yw oherwydd ei bod hi'n amser maith ers hynny.

Roedd Pwyllgor yr Economi, Masnach, a Materion Gwledig o ddifrif ynglŷn â'r gwaith, ac fe gytunodd i gychwyn ar yr adolygiad yn ein cyfarfod cyntaf. Fodd bynnag, fel y bydd yr Aelodau'n gwybod, cafodd adroddiad y pwyllgor ei ohirio oherwydd adolygiad barnwrol i gyfreithlondeb y rheoliadau, mater a oedd allan o ddwylo'r pwyllgor. Roedd yr adolygiad barnwrol hwnnw'n bwysig i'r ddadl hon, nid yn unig i egluro pam y cymerodd gymaint o amser i gynhyrchu adroddiad y pwyllgor, ond hefyd i dynnu sylw at ba mor arwyddocaol yw'r rheoliadau hyn.

Er bod yr holl reoliadau y pleidleisiwn arnynt yn bwysig, mae'r rheoliadau llygredd amaethyddol hyn yn effeithio ar bethau sy'n greiddiol i gynnal bywyd yng Nghymru—cynhyrchu bwyd, ansawdd ein dŵr a'r amgylchedd ehangach. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru o'r farn y bydd y rheoliadau'n lleihau llygredd yn ein hafonydd yn y pen draw, yn osgoi cyfnewid llygredd ac yn atal neu'n lleihau gollwng mwyfwy o faetholion i'r amgylchedd. Dywedodd y Gweinidog yn glir iawn fod y rheoliadau, drwy weithredu yn y modd hwn, yn cyflawni yn erbyn ystod eang o gyfrifoldebau Cymru ac yn darparu ymateb cyfannol i heriau amgylcheddol sy'n gysylltiedig â chynhyrchiant amaethyddol.

Serch hynny, er mwyn gweithredu'r rheoliadau hyn, bydd gofyn i lawer o ffermwyr gyflawni gwaith cydymffurfio, a fydd yn cynnwys gwaith adeiladu sylweddol ar gost sylweddol, a gallai hynny fygwth eu hyfywedd. Felly, mae'n hanfodol fod y rheoliadau hyn yn gosod y cydbwysedd cywir rhwng gwarchod ein hamgylchedd naturiol a chynnal system reoleiddio ymarferol i ffermwyr Cymru.

Nawr, cyn imi redeg drwy'r adroddiad a'i argymhellion, rwyf am dynnu sylw at ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i'n hadroddiad a'i berthnasedd i'r ddadl hon. Roedd disgwyl ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru ar 14 Medi, ac eto fe'i gosodwyd yn y pen draw ar 5 Hydref, sef y dyddiad terfynol olaf ar gyfer ei gynnwys ar agenda'r Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw. Fe wnaeth yr oedi hwn amharu'n ddifrifol ar allu Aelodau i graffu ar ymateb y Llywodraeth, ac o'r herwydd mae'n effeithio ar y ddadl hon. Felly, rwy'n mawr obeithio y bydd pob Gweinidog yn y dyfodol yn ystyried pwysigrwydd ymateb i adroddiadau pwyllgorau'r Senedd mewn modd amserol, fel y gallwn gael dadleuon cwbl wybodus ar adroddiadau pwyllgorau'r Senedd.

Nawr, lansiodd Pwyllgor yr Economi, Masnach, a Materion Gwledig ymgynghoriad ar y rheoliadau, a gynhaliwyd dros haf 2021, ac fe wnaeth ystod eang o randdeiliaid—gan gynnwys pysgotwyr, ffermwyr a sefydliadau amgylcheddol—ymateb i'r ymgynghoriad. Ni fydd yr Aelodau'n synnu clywed bod y rheoliadau'n ddadleuol. Mewn ymateb i'n hymgynghoriad, mae ffermwyr wedi cyfeirio atynt fel rhai didostur a chosbol, ac fe wnaethant fynegi pryderon y byddant yn afresymol o ddrud i'w gweithredu ac y gallant achosi i ffermydd fynd i'r wal.

Ar y llaw arall, cawsom dystiolaeth gan sefydliadau amgylcheddol a physgotwyr a oedd yn croesawu'r rheoliadau, gan ddadlau ei bod yn hen bryd eu cael. Fe wnaethant ddweud wrthym nad yw'r system bresennol yn atal y llygrwyr amaethyddol gwaethaf, a bod gweithredu ar ffurf y rheoliadau hyn yn mynd rywfaint o'r ffordd i leihau'r llygredd yn ein hafonydd. Felly, fel pwyllgor, roeddem yn ymwybodol iawn fod angen i'r rheoliadau daro'r cydbwysedd cywir a'u bod mor effeithiol â phosibl. Pan ddaeth yr adolygiad barnwrol i ben, llwyddodd y pwyllgor i barhau gyda'n hymchwiliad a gosod ein hadroddiad.

Lywydd, mae'n cynnwys 10 argymhelliad, ac am fod yr amser yn gyfyngedig y prynhawn yma, hoffwn ganolbwyntio ar dri maes penodol: cymorth ar gyfer cyflawni, rhanddirymiadau, a phryderon ynghylch ffermio yn ôl y calendr. Yn gyntaf, un o'r materion mwyaf dybryd a godwyd oedd y gost i ffermwyr o gyflawni'r rheoliadau hyn, ac fe'i gwnaed yn eithaf clir i'r pwyllgor y gallai ffermydd fynd i'r wal. Felly, roeddwn yn falch o weld ymrwymiad gan Lywodraeth Cymru i roi £20 miliwn ychwanegol tuag at helpu ffermwyr i gyflawni'r rheoliadau hyn, fel y nodwyd yn y datganiad ysgrifenedig ddaeth gydag ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i adroddiad y pwyllgor. Rwy'n falch hefyd o weld ymrwymiad gan Lywodraeth Cymru i ddarparu dadansoddiad manwl i'r pwyllgor o'r darpariaethau a wneir, gan gynnwys cymorth ariannol uniongyrchol a chyllid ychwanegol i wasanaethau cynghori. Ac wrth ymateb i'r ddadl hon, efallai y gall y Gweinidog gadarnhau pryd y gall y pwyllgor ddisgwyl yr wybodaeth honno.

Yn yr un modd, mae angen cefnogaeth i gyrff cyhoeddus. Mae Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru wedi amcangyfrif y byddant hwy angen 60 o staff ychwanegol i ddarparu'r isafswm llwyr, ac o bosibl fod angen dros 200 o aelodau staff i ddarparu gorfodaeth lawn mewn perthynas â'r rheoliadau hyn. Wrth gwrs, bydd trefn orfodi dameidiog heb ddigon o adnoddau yn rhoi'r gwaethaf o'r ddau fyd i ni, ac roeddwn yn poeni braidd wrth ddarllen yn ymateb y Llywodraeth nad yw'r cytundeb lefel gwasanaeth ar gyfer y rheoliadau wedi ei gytuno eto gan Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru a Llywodraeth Cymru. Bydd angen amser ar Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru i recriwtio a hyfforddi staff ychwanegol, ac felly mae'n hanfodol fod cytundeb lefel gwasanaeth yn cael ei roi ar waith cyn gynted â phosibl. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog yn rhoi diweddariad i ni ar ei ddatblygiad ac unrhyw wybodaeth bellach sydd ganddi am ba mor hir y gallai gymryd i Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru fod mewn sefyllfa i allu gorfodi'r rheoliadau hyn.

Lywydd, clywodd y pwyllgor bryderon hefyd ynghylch rhanddirymiadau. Roeddem yn pryderu y byddai tynnu'r rhanddirymiad ar gyfer ffermydd glaswelltir cymwys yn ôl yn rhoi ffermwyr Cymru dan anfantais gystadleuol, ac felly argymhellwyd y byddai Llywodraeth Cymru yn ailgyflwyno'r rhanddirymiad a oedd yn caniatáu i ffermydd glaswelltir cymwys wasgaru hyd at 250 kg yr hectar o nitrogen. Rhybuddiodd undebau ffermio y gallai'r penderfyniad i beidio â chynnwys y rhanddirymiad alw am ddadstocio ar lawer o ffermydd Cymru, gan effeithio ar hyfywedd ffermydd, màs critigol o fewn y gadwyn gyflenwi a chyflogaeth, ac y gallai'r gyfradd is o 170 kg yr hectar arwain at gynhyrchu alltraeth mewn gwledydd sydd â safonau is. Felly, rwy'n falch o weld, yn y datganiad ysgrifenedig i gyd-fynd ag ymateb y Llywodraeth, y bydd ffermydd Cymru yn gallu gwneud cais yn awr am drwydded i wasgaru mwy o nitrogen. Ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog yn rhoi sicrwydd i ffermwyr Cymru heddiw na fydd y mesur hwn yn arwain at fiwrocratiaeth bellach iddynt.

Yn olaf, rwyf am sôn am ffermio yn ôl y calendr. Mae Rhan 5 o reoliadau Llywodraeth Cymru'n pennu cyfnodau gwaharddedig, pan fo gwasgaru wedi'i wahardd. Ac er bod eithriadau i rai mathau o ddaliadau a phridd, bydd y cyfnod gwaharddedig yn para o fis Hydref tan fis Ionawr, gyda rhai cyfyngiadau pellach yn para tan ddiwedd mis Chwefror. Clywodd y pwyllgor ddadleuon cryf am bwysigrwydd hyblygrwydd i ffermwyr ar gyfer pryd i wasgaru slyri, ac fe gafodd hynny ei atgyfnerthu i ni mewn gwirionedd yn ystod taith ein pwyllgor i Ganolfan Ymchwil Amaeth Gelli Aur yn sir Gaerfyrddin. Roeddem eisoes wedi clywed pethau mawr am eu gwaith ar brosesu slyri a defnyddio technoleg i benderfynu ar yr amser gorau i wasgaru. Yn ystod yr ymweliad, dangoswyd offer i ni sy'n cefnogi ap y bu'r ganolfan yn ei ddatblygu. Roedd yn gyfuniad trawiadol o orsaf dywydd a synwyryddion sy'n monitro'r amodau, lle mae'r wybodaeth a gesglir yn cael ei bwydo i mewn i ap sy'n prosesu'r data ac yn rhoi statws coch, oren neu wyrdd i ffermwyr ar gyfer gwasgaru slyri. Cawsom wybod bod y system wedi ei phrofi yn ystod cyfnod gwaharddedig 2021-22, a'r canfyddiadau oedd bod yr ap yn dangos statws gwyrdd ar gyfer gwasgaru trwy fis Chwefror a mis Mawrth, sy'n golygu bod y tywydd a'r amodau tir yn iawn ar gyfer gwasgaru slyri. Fodd bynnag, bron cyn gynted ag y daeth y cyfnod gwaharddedig i ben, fe wnaeth yr ap ddynodi bod yr amodau'n goch, gan nodi nad oeddent yn addas ar gyfer gwasgaru slyri. Wrth gwrs, rydym i gyd yn ymwybodol iawn o ba mor anrhagweladwy y gall y tywydd fod, felly mae'n hanfodol fod ffermwyr yn cael newid i system a gefnogir gan dechnoleg yn seiliedig ar y byd go iawn, amodau byw, nid system galendr sy'n seiliedig ar gyfartaledd tymhorol, a hynny cyn gynted â phosibl.

Argymhellodd y pwyllgor y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru flaenoriaethu unrhyw argymhellion amgen addas sy'n defnyddio technoleg yn hytrach na chyfnodau gwaharddedig ar gyfer gwasgaru slyri ac er fy mod yn croesawu'r ffordd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn agored i awgrymiadau newydd, rwy'n siomedig fod eu hymateb yn rhoi'r baich cyfrifoldeb ar y gymuned ffermio yn hytrach na bod y Llywodraeth yn mynd ati'n rhagweithiol i fynd ar drywydd dewisiadau technolegol eraill yn lle ffermio yn ôl y calendr. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio y gwnaiff y Gweinidog roi ystyriaeth bellach i hyn.

Lywydd, mae adroddiad y pwyllgor yn cwmpasu popeth o ddata ansawdd dŵr i orfodaeth ac ymgorffori'r rheoliadau mewn safonau gofynnol cenedlaethol, ac rwy'n annog pob Aelod yn y Siambr i ddarllen ein hadroddiad. Rydym wedi gofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru adolygu effeithiolrwydd mesurau technolegol amgen, i fod yn gwbl dryloyw ynghylch y cymorth cyllido sydd ar gael i ffermwyr, ac i ddarparu sicrwydd bod yna adnoddau ac arweiniad digonol i Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru allu monitro a gorfodi'r rheoliadau hyn. Fel pwyllgor, rydym yn bwriadu parhau i adolygu'r rheoliadau hyn yn y misoedd a'r blynyddoedd nesaf i sicrhau eu heffeithiolrwydd, ac felly, ar y nodyn hwnnw, Lywydd, edrychaf ymlaen at gyfraniadau'r Aelodau yn y ddadl hon. Diolch.

15:10

I welcome the opportunity to speak in this afternoon's debate. The Welsh Government's NVZ policy, the topic of this report, has been a flagship yet controversial policy of this and former Welsh Governments. Therefore, it was only right that this Senedd tasked the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee to urgently review these regulations. I know that the Minister has been keen to stress that these aren't NVZs, but with Parts 2, 3, 4, 5 and 7 of the water resources regulations word for word the same as that of an NVZ policy, then I'm afraid to say that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is indeed a duck.

Focusing on the report itself, I was disappointed to see the Welsh Government reject recommendation 1 of this paper, that

'The Welsh Government should re-introduce the derogation which allowed qualifying grassland farms to spread up to 250 kg/ha of nitrogen.'

Now, I appreciate that this was rejected on the basis that last week's joint statement with Plaid Cymru, as your co-operation partner, superseded recommendation 1, however, the content of that statement does leave the industry and me with several concerns. Despite the narrative that was pushed out, the statement did not offer our agricultural community any change in policy, unlike what recommendation 1 would have delivered. And, once again, the consultation announced on a possible licensing scheme will see the same evidence submitted and the same arguments discussed, so I really hope we don't see the same old outcome delivered. Because nothing, in terms of derogation, has been guaranteed, and let's not forget that a lower derogation limit puts Welsh farmers at a competitive disadvantage against other farmers across the UK, as committee Chair, Paul Davies, outlined earlier.

I also note with interest that the Welsh Government accepted recommendation 3 of the report, that

'The Minister should set out to the Committee her considerations of the impact these Regulations may have on the planning system'.

Despite accepting the proposal, the Welsh Government's response failed to recognise the fact that large numbers of planning applications will have to be submitted and processed in order for farms to meet the Welsh Government's regulations. Indeed, whilst it's the Welsh Government's view that the infrastructure requirements of the regulations do not significantly differ from pre-existing regulatory baselines, your response, Minister, fails to acknowledge that small-scale family farms do not have the existing infrastructure in place to adhere to these regulations. In return, this will mean that new planning applications will have to be submitted for infrastructure, with the potential for these applications to swamp local authorities, many of which already have planning departments under immense stress. Having read your response, I am not confident that you are fully aware of the impact and the way in which these applications will impede local authorities. 

And finally, taking me to recommendation 6, I was disappointed to learn that you have not accepted this proposal in full. The purpose of this recommendation was to illustrate the pressure that a bovine TB breakdown will cause on adhering to your regulations. There has been no clarification as to whether farms with herd breakdowns will be permitted to exceed the 170 kg per hectare nitrate limit. In these circumstances, farms under TB restrictions that are unable to move on cattle could see their stock numbers substantially increase, yet there is no explanation as to whether there has been consideration of this with these regulations. By adhering to TB regulations, by following the letter of the law on cattle movements when on a breakdown, farmers could be inadvertently contravening the water regulations. This can't be an oversight, so I seek some clarity that these farms won't be unfairly punished.

I remember being a young newspaper reporter, many years ago, discussing whether an all-Pembrokeshire or an all-Wales NVZ would be rolled out. Now, some six or seven years later, we are still discussing and debating the finer details of this policy. I hope you reconsider and accept all 10 recommendations submitted by the committee, implementing them in their fullest form. I'd also like to take the opportunity to thank our committee Chair, Paul Davies, all those who gave evidence and the clerking staff. Diolch, Llywydd.

Rwy'n croesawu'r cyfle i siarad yn y ddadl y prynhawn yma. Mae polisi parth perygl nitradau Llywodraeth Cymru, pwnc yr adroddiad hwn, wedi bod yn bolisi blaenllaw ond dadleuol gan y Llywodraeth hon a Llywodraethau blaenorol yng Nghymru. Felly, nid oedd ond yn iawn i'r Senedd ofyn i'r Pwyllgor Economi, Masnach a Materion Gwledig adolygu'r rheoliadau hyn ar frys. Gwn fod y Gweinidog wedi bod yn awyddus i bwysleisio nad parthau perygl nitradau yw'r rhain, ond gyda Rhannau 2, 3, 4, 5 a 7 o'r rheoliadau adnoddau dŵr yr un fath air am air â pholisi parth perygl nitradau, mae arnaf ofn, os yw'n edrych fel hwyaden ac yn cwacian fel hwyaden, yna hwyaden yw hi.

Gan ganolbwyntio ar yr adroddiad ei hun, cefais fy siomi wrth weld Llywodraeth Cymru'n gwrthod argymhelliad 1 yn y papur hwn,

'Dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ailgyflwyno’r rhanddirymiad a oedd yn caniatáu i
ffermydd glaswelltir cymwys daenu hyd at 250 kg/ha o nitrogen.'

Nawr, rwy'n sylweddoli fod hwn wedi ei wrthod ar y sail fod datganiad ar y cyd yr wythnos diwethaf gyda Phlaid Cymru, fel eich partner cydweithio, wedi disodli argymhelliad 1, ond mae cynnwys y datganiad hwnnw'n creu sawl pryder i'r diwydiant ac i minnau. Er gwaethaf y naratif a gafodd ei hyrwyddo, nid oedd y datganiad yn cynnig unrhyw newid polisi i'n cymuned amaethyddol, yn wahanol i'r hyn y byddai argymhelliad 1 wedi'i gyflawni. Ac unwaith eto, bydd yr ymgynghoriad a gyhoeddwyd ar gynllun trwyddedu posibl yn gweld yr un dystiolaeth yn cael ei chyflwyno a'r un dadleuon yn cael eu trafod, felly rwy'n gobeithio'n fawr na welwn yr un hen ganlyniad yn cael ei gyflawni. Oherwydd nid oes dim wedi'i warantu o ran rhanddirymiad, a gadewch inni beidio ag anghofio bod terfyn rhanddirymiad is yn rhoi ffermwyr Cymru dan anfantais gystadleuol yn erbyn ffermwyr eraill ar draws y DU, fel y disgrifiodd Cadeirydd y pwyllgor, Paul Davies, yn gynharach.

Nodaf hefyd gyda diddordeb fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn argymhelliad 3 o'r adroddiad,

'Dylai’r Gweinidog amlinellu i’r Pwyllgor ei hystyriaethau o’r effaith y gallai’r
Rheoliadau hyn ei chael ar y system gynllunio'. 

Er iddi dderbyn yr argymhelliad, fe fethodd ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru gydnabod y ffaith y bydd yn rhaid cyflwyno a phrosesu nifer fawr o geisiadau cynllunio er mwyn i ffermydd fodloni rheoliadau Llywodraeth Cymru. Yn wir, er mai barn Llywodraeth Cymru yw nad yw gofynion seilwaith y rheoliadau'n wahanol iawn i linellau sylfaen rheoleiddiol sy'n bodoli eisoes, nid yw eich ymateb chi, Weinidog, yn cydnabod nad oes gan ffermydd teuluol ar raddfa fach seilwaith yn ei le ar hyn o bryd er mwyn cadw at y rheoliadau hyn. O'r herwydd, bydd hyn yn golygu y bydd yn rhaid cyflwyno ceisiadau cynllunio newydd ar gyfer seilwaith, gyda'r perygl y bydd y ceisiadau hyn yn boddi awdurdodau lleol mewn gwaith, gydag adrannau cynllunio nifer ohonynt eisoes o dan straen aruthrol. Ar ôl darllen eich ymateb, nid wyf yn hyderus eich bod yn gwbl ymwybodol o'r effaith a'r ffordd y bydd y ceisiadau hyn yn llyffetheirio awdurdodau lleol. 

Ac yn olaf, os caf droi at argymhelliad 6, cefais fy siomi o glywed nad ydych wedi derbyn yr argymhelliad hwn yn llawn. Pwrpas yr argymhelliad oedd dangos y pwysau y bydd achos TB mewn gwartheg yn ei achosi wrth lynu wrth eich rheoliadau. Ni chafwyd eglurhad ynglŷn ag a fydd ffermydd gydag achosion o TB yn eu buchesi yn cael mynd y tu hwnt i'r terfyn nitrad o 170 kg yr hectar. Dan yr amgylchiadau hyn, gallai ffermydd o dan gyfyngiadau TB nad ydynt yn gallu symud gwartheg weld nifer eu stoc yn cynyddu'n sylweddol, ond eto nid oes eglurhad ynglŷn ag a fu ystyriaeth o hyn gyda'r rheoliadau hyn. Drwy gadw at reoliadau TB, drwy ddilyn llythyren y gyfraith ar symudiadau gwartheg pan geir achos o TB, gallai ffermwyr dorri'r rheoliadau dŵr yn anfwriadol. Ni all hyn fod yn amryfusedd, felly rwy'n ceisio eglurder na fydd y ffermydd hyn yn cael eu cosbi'n annheg.

Rwy'n cofio bod yn ohebydd papur newydd ifanc, flynyddoedd maith yn ôl, yn trafod a fyddai parth perygl nitradau'n cael ei gyflwyno drwy sir Benfro neu drwy Gymru gyfan. Nawr, oddeutu chwech neu saith mlynedd yn ddiweddarach, rydym yn dal i drafod a dadlau manylion y polisi hwn. Gobeithio y gwnewch chi ailystyried a derbyn pob un o'r 10 argymhelliad a gyflwynwyd gan y pwyllgor, gan eu gweithredu'n llawn. Hoffwn fanteisio ar y cyfle hefyd i ddiolch i Gadeirydd ein pwyllgor, Paul Davies, pawb a roddodd dystiolaeth a'r staff clercio. Diolch, Lywydd.

15:15

Diolch i'r pwyllgor, y Cadeirydd a'r holl staff, fel y dywedodd Sam Kurtz, am eu gwaith trylwyr iawn yn gwneud yr ymchwil yma. Mae'n rhaid dechrau drwy gydnabod ein bod ni yn gweld llawer gormod o achosion o lygredd dŵr yn ein dyfroedd, ac mae’n rhaid i bawb gymryd cyfrifoldeb a chwarae eu rhan—y ffermwyr, ie, ond hefyd y cwmnïau dŵr, cwmnïau adeiladu a phawb arall. Ond, mae’n rhaid i ni hefyd gydnabod rôl y diwydiant amaethyddol yn ein cymunedau gwledig, o ran ei gyfraniad gwerthfawr i’r economi leol, ei gyfraniad amhrisiadwy i ddiwylliant a chymuned, heb sôn wrth gwrs am ei rôl ganolog, sef cynhyrchu bwyd maethlon o ansawdd.

Mae’r argymhelliad cyntaf un, ynghylch y derogation, yn mynd at galon y broblem. Fel y dywed yr undebau amaethyddol yn eu cyfraniad, byddai'r rheoliadau newydd wedi arwain at y rhan fwyaf o ffermwyr gwartheg Cymru yn gorfod stocio llai, gan effeithio ar eu hyfywedd, yn ogystal â hyfywedd busnesau eraill, megis ffatrïoedd llaeth, ac yn y blaen.

Yn yr adroddiad, rydym ni’n gweld Aled Jones o'r NFU a’r FUW yn rhybuddio y byddai’r rheoliadau newydd, fel ag yr oedden nhw, yn hynod o niweidiol, yn enwedig i ffermydd bach ucheldir Cymru. Heb air o gelwydd, roeddwn i yn gweld ffermwyr yn fy etholaeth i yn dweud eu bod nhw am gael gwared ar wartheg yn llwyr o’r ucheldiroedd. I rai, roedd hynny am olygu eu bod nhw yn mynd allan o ffermio yn gyfan gwbl, i eraill roedd yn golygu eu bod nhw am stocio mwy o ddefaid ar y mynydd. Rŵan, yr eironi wrth gwrs efo hynny ydy y byddai tynnu gwartheg i ffwrdd o’r ucheldir a rhoi defaid yn eu lle yn arwain at fwy o niwed bioamrywiaeth. Mae’r RSPB a chyrff eraill yn dadlau bod angen gwartheg i bori ein hucheldiroedd, ac mae hyn yn cael ei nodi yn yr adroddiad.

Ond yn ogystal â hyn, byddai gorfodi y newid yma mor sydyn yn gwneud yr un peth i’n cymunedau amaethyddol ag y gwnaeth Margaret Thatcher i’n cymunedau glofaol, sef creu niwed parhaol, a hynny dros nos. Dyna pam fod y cyhoeddiad diweddar rhwng Plaid Cymru a’r Llywodraeth ynghylch oedi cyflwyno y cam nesaf ac edrych i gyflwyno system drwyddedi i ffermwyr, er mwyn iddyn nhw fedru lledaenu hyd at 250 kg o nitrogen ar eu tir, i’w groesawu. Nid yn unig y bydd yn sicrhau parhad asgwrn cefn ein cymunedau gwledig a phob dim sydd ynghlwm â hynny, yn economaidd ac yn ddiwylliannol, ond bydd hefyd o fudd sylweddol i fioamrywiaeth yng Nghymru, ac mae hynny i’w groesawu yn gynnes.

Mae’r adroddiad yn ei gwneud yn glir bod y costau o adeiladu yr isadeiledd angenrheidiol yn anferthol, ac yn cynyddu, ac mae’r ail argymhelliad yn ei gwneud yn glir bod angen tryloywder ynghylch pa gefnogaeth sydd ar gael i ffermwyr. Mae’n amlwg nad oedd y swm a ddynodwyd yn wreiddiol yn ddigon o bell ffordd, fel roedd tystiolaeth Gareth Hughes o’r FUW yn nodi. Felly, mae’n dda o beth gweld bod y Llywodraeth, yn y cytundeb efo Plaid Cymru, wedi sicrhau £20 miliwn yn ychwanegol er mwyn ceisio sicrhau bod gan ffermwyr yr isadeiledd ac adnoddau angenrheidiol. A fydd o’n ddigon? Hwyrach ddim, ond mae’n llawer iawn gwell na’r sefyllfa roeddem ni ynddi ynghynt.

Yn olaf, mae’r adroddiad yn cyfeirio at yr angen i ffermwyr adeiladu neu wella storfeydd slyri. Rŵan, unwaith eto, dowch i Ddwyfor Meirionnydd ac fe wnaf i eich cyflwyno chi i ffermwyr oedd yn trio am ganiatâd cynllunio i adeiladu storfeydd slyri newydd, ond oedd yn cael trafferthion cael caniatâd cynllunio. Mae’n hawdd iawn dweud ar bapur fod angen gwneud hyn, llall ac arall, ond mae’n fater gwahanol iawn gweithredu'r uchelgeisiau hynny yn y byd go iawn. Felly, wrth ystyried argymhelliad 3, mae’n dda gweld bod y Llywodraeth, yn eu cytundeb efo Plaid Cymru, am sicrhau dwy flynedd yn ychwanegol, yr amser yna i alluogi y gwaith yma i fynd rhagddo, a sicrhau y just transition hwnnw sydd angen ar ffermwyr. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you to the committee, the Chair and all of the staff, as Sam Kurtz said, for their very thorough work on this inquiry. We must begin by acknowledging that we see far too many cases of water pollution in our waterways, and everyone must take responsibility and play their part—the farmers, yes, but also the water companies, construction companies, and everyone else. But, we must also recognise the role of the agricultural industry in our rural communities, in terms of its valuable contribution to our local economy, its invaluable contribution to culture and community, not to mention its central role, namely producing high-quality, nutritious food.

The first recommendation regarding the derogation goes to the heart of the problem. As the agricultural unions state in their response, the new regulations would have led to the majority of cattle farmers in Wales having to stock fewer cattle, impacting their viability, as well as the viability of related businesses, such as dairy factories and so on.

In the report, we see Aled Jones of the NFU as well as the FUW warning that the new regulations, as they stood, would be hugely damaging, particularly to the small upland farms of Wales. No word of a lie, I saw farmers in my constituency who were telling me that they would be getting rid of all of their cattle from the uplands. For some, this would mean that they would have to give up farming entirely, and for others, it meant stocking more sheep on the hills. Now, the irony with that, of course, is that removing cattle from the uplands and replacing them with sheep would lead to more damage in terms of biodiversity. The RSPB and other bodies argue that cattle are needed to graze our uplands, and this is noted in the report.

But in addition to this, forcing such a change so quickly would do the same to our agricultural communities as Margaret Thatcher did to our mining communities, which is to cause lasting damage almost overnight. That is why the recent joint statement between Plaid Cymru and the Government with regard to pausing the introduction of the next phase and considering the introduction of a licensing system for farmers, to enable them to spread up to 250 kg of nitrogen on their land, is to be warmly welcomed. Not only will this ensure the continuity of the backbone of our rural communities and everything associated with that, economically and culturally, but it will be of significant benefit to biodiversity in Wales, and that is very much to be welcomed too.

The report makes clear that the costs of building the necessary infrastructure are huge, and increasing, and the second recommendation makes it clear that transparency is needed regarding what support is available to farmers. It is clear that the amount initially allocated was nowhere near sufficient, as the evidence given by Gareth Hughes from the FUW noted. It is, therefore, good to see that the Government, in its agreement with Plaid Cymru, has secured an additional £20 million to try to ensure that farmers have the necessary infrastructure and resources. Will this be enough? Perhaps not, but it is much better than what was previously on offer in the previous situation.

Finally, the report refers to the need for farmers to construct or enhance their slurry storage. Now, once again, come to Dwyfor Meirionnydd and I’ll introduce you to farmers who sought planning permission to build new slurry storage facilities, but who found it difficult to obtain planning consent. It is very easy to state on paper that this, that or the other should be done, but it's a very different matter to act on those ambitions in the real world. So, in considering recommendation 3, it is good to see that the Government, again in its agreement with Plaid Cymru, will allow an additional two years to enable this work to progress, and to ensure the just transition that farmers need. Thank you very much.

15:20

I live in my constituency, in Caerphilly, and we have a concentrated area of farms, and around those farms are many houses, and you can imagine that constituents are very concerned about how slurry is dealt with and how these issues are regulated—perhaps more so in farms that are more isolated and less close to communities. Therefore, I think the regulations have been broadly welcomed by residents in Caerphilly, if not by all farms, and I think that's reflected in some of the comments that have been made by Mabon ap Gwynfor and by Sam Kurtz. And of course, it's reasonable to say that one size doesn't fit all, which was the direction of the report that's been produced.

I've got to disagree with the Chair on one point: he said that he was concerned that the Government took time to respond to the committee report. Well, actually, given the importance of these regulations and the importance of the issue to the Senedd as a whole, I think getting these right, getting the response right, and carrying two thirds of the Senedd with us when it comes to the implementation of the regulations is important, and I think that was what was managed in the days leading up to the Government's response. I think, therefore, you can see now that the Government's response should have—I would be surprised if it didn't have—a two-thirds majority of support in the Senedd, despite some of the concerns still expressed by the Conservatives who have spoken so far.

And I'd also say with regard to the regulations, these regulations have been subject to a quadruple set of scrutiny, more than many other regulations we see, so they've seen a Senedd debate, they've seen the committee inquiry, they've seen a judicial review, and the debate today. Those four things have scrutinised these regulations, plus many questions that I and many others have raised in the Chamber throughout the course of the last few years. So, there is certainly a case to be made that the Government have allowed a great deal of scrutiny of these regulations. I would say they've listened. I would say they've listened particularly with regard to recommendation 1, and as Sam Kurtz recognised, recommendation 1 is subject to the agreement now between Plaid Cymru and the Government, and I think that effectively addresses some of those concerns. I think what we're seeing today is a listening Government that is listening to the residents in my constituency who are concerned about agricultural pollution, but also to those farmers who have concerns about the impacts. The money that is now being put towards that, plus the additional consultation, demonstrate that this Government have effectively listened without reducing their commitment to controlling nitrogen pollution.

So, I'd welcome the Government's response on the whole, and I'm glad I was able to take part in the inquiry, because it certainly showed all aspects of this process to me. I would say to the Minister now that she has done a good job in ensuring that we can make progress and protect our environments, our rural environments, from nitrogen pollution.

Rwy'n byw yn fy etholaeth, yng Nghaerffili, ac mae gennym ardal sydd â chrynodiad o ffermydd, ac o amgylch y ffermydd hynny ceir llawer o dai, a gallwch ddychmygu bod etholwyr yn poeni'n fawr ynglŷn â sut yr ymdrinnir â slyri a sut y caiff y materion hyn eu rheoleiddio—efallai'n fwy felly nag mewn ffermydd sy'n fwy ynysig ac yn llai agos at gymunedau. Felly, rwy'n credu bod y rheoliadau wedi cael eu croesawu'n gyffredinol gan drigolion Caerffili, os nad gan bob fferm, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny wedi cael ei adlewyrchu yn rhai o'r sylwadau a wnaed gan Mabon ap Gwynfor a Sam Kurtz. Ac wrth gwrs, mae'n rhesymol dweud na cheir un ateb sy'n mynd i fod yn addas ym mhob achos, sef cyfeiriad yr adroddiad a gynhyrchwyd.

Mae'n rhaid i mi anghytuno gyda'r Cadeirydd ar un pwynt: dywedodd ei fod yn pryderu bod y Llywodraeth wedi cymryd amser i ymateb i adroddiad y pwyllgor. Wel, mewn gwirionedd, o ystyried pwysigrwydd y rheoliadau hyn a phwysigrwydd y mater i'r Senedd gyfan, rwy'n credu bod cael y rhain yn iawn, cael yr ymateb yn iawn, a chario dwy ran o dair o'r Senedd gyda ni pan ddaw'n fater o weithredu'r rheoliadau yn bwysig, a chredaf mai dyna lwyddwyd i'w wneud yn y dyddiau cyn ymateb y Llywodraeth. Rwy'n credu, felly, y gallwch weld yn awr y dylai ymateb y Llywodraeth ennyn—byddwn yn synnu pe na bai wedi ennyn—mwyafrif o ddwy ran o dair o gefnogaeth yn y Senedd, er gwaethaf rhai o'r pryderon sy'n dal i gael eu mynegi gan y Ceidwadwyr a siaradodd hyd yma.

A byddwn yn dweud hefyd o ran y rheoliadau, mae'r rheoliadau hyn wedi bod yn destun pedair rownd o graffu, mwy na llawer o reoliadau eraill a welwn, felly maent wedi bod yn destun dadl yn y Senedd, yn destun ymchwiliad y pwyllgor, yn destun adolygiad barnwrol, a'r ddadl heddiw. Mae'r pedwar peth wedi craffu ar y rheoliadau hyn, ynghyd â llawer o gwestiynau a ofynnwyd gennyf fi a llawer o rai eraill yn y Siambr dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Felly, yn sicr mae achos i'w wneud bod y Llywodraeth wedi caniatáu llawer iawn o graffu ar y rheoliadau hyn. Byddwn yn dweud eu bod wedi gwrando. Byddwn yn dweud eu bod wedi gwrando'n enwedig ar argymhelliad 1, ac fel y cydnabu Sam Kurtz, mae argymhelliad 1 yn ddarostyngedig i'r cytundeb rhwng Plaid Cymru a'r Llywodraeth yn awr, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n mynd i'r afael â rhai o'r pryderon hynny'n effeithiol. Rwy'n credu mai'r hyn a welwn heddiw yw Llywodraeth sy'n gwrando ar y trigolion yn fy etholaeth sy'n poeni am lygredd amaethyddol, ond hefyd ar y ffermwyr sydd â phryderon am yr effeithiau. Mae'r arian sydd bellach yn cael ei roi tuag at hynny, ynghyd â'r ymgynghoriad ychwanegol, yn dangos bod y Llywodraeth hon wedi gwrando'n effeithiol heb leihau eu hymrwymiad i reoli llygredd nitrogen.

Felly, byddwn yn croesawu ymateb y Llywodraeth ar y cyfan, ac rwy'n falch fy mod i wedi gallu cymryd rhan yn yr ymchwiliad, oherwydd yn sicr fe ddangosodd bob agwedd ar y broses i mi. Byddwn yn dweud wrth y Gweinidog yn awr ei bod wedi gwneud gwaith da yn sicrhau y gallwn wneud cynnydd a diogelu ein hamgylcheddau, ein hamgylcheddau gwledig, rhag llygredd nitrogen.

15:25

Gaf i ymestyn diolch i'r pwyllgor hefyd ac i Gadeirydd y pwyllgor?

May I thank the committee and the committee Chair?

A huge amount of work has been done by the committee, for which we're very grateful, to make the case for a more proportionate response to what is a really serious issue. I haven't spoken to any farmer who doesn't recognise that the water quality needs to be better. Everybody wants to work together on this, a team Wales approach.

I have written to the First Minister to ask for an economic impact assessment. I did this in August, recognising that increased costs form part of farmers' concerns around the future. I'm concerned that the unintended consequences of these regulations will be felt far beyond the individual farm gate, because not enough attention has been paid to the wider impact on our rural communities, or implications for pre- and post-farm-gate supply chains. I was reminded only today that the proposed 170 kg derogation limit would result in a destocking of dairy cattle at 17 per cent—a loss to us of some 330 million litres of milk production. We really do need to work together to ensure that the four-year review period, included in the regulations, looks not just at the impact of the regulations on reducing agricultural pollution, but at the impact of the regulations on the industry itself.

My first question, if I may, Minister, is to understand a little bit more about the proposed licensing scheme and how that sits in relation to recommendation 1 of the report. I have questions, for example, as to how many farm businesses can expect to benefit. Will there be any learning to inform potential changes to the regulations? What are the parameters of that consultation to ensure it's fair, balanced and evidence led, and what are the successful criteria for that consultation? Farmers have repeatedly said that a delay alone is just a sticking plaster, so we do need clarity for farmers around what this licensing scheme actually entails in the long term.

I'd like to also focus on recommendation 2, and the costs of introducing these regulations. The funding package to date falls far below what the Government's own figures are for the upfront cost of around £360 million. The FUW have estimated that the cost could actually be in the region of £450 million, which is a huge difference. The additional £20 million last week can't be put into context without being provided with full detail of financial support to date, and, in the face of ever-growing cost pressures on our farmers, it does sound like a drop in the ocean.

The new technology, as highlighted by Paul Davies, is really interesting, and I am concerned that the new technology coming forward could actually negate the need for new slurry stores to be built. Some farmers will have forked out huge sums only to find that the expenditure wasn't needed, putting huge additional cost pressures on farms. So, there needs to be some alignment between the proposed licensing scheme, the four-year review period and the introduction of alternative measures. To be provocative, my question would be: why can't we wait until the new technology comes into play and see the effect that that has?

We do really need clarity around what additional resources are needed, for example, from NRW, highlighted by the Chair and by others as well. Without that effective regulatory role, these regulations simply punish farmers. Also, I pick up the point from my colleague Mabon ap Gwynfor around the capacity of local authority planning departments. They are massively overstretched. In Ceredigion, I understand that there is one planning officer who is dealing with all of the farmers who are putting in applications for slurry stores at the moment.

We need a team Wales approach. In the light of the announcement made by the Government and Plaid Cymru last week, I'd welcome clarity on whether the deadline for alternative proposals will be extended, and whether the Welsh Government will now revisit the alternative proposals put forward by the sector. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Mae'r pwyllgor wedi gwneud llawer iawn o waith, ac rydym yn ddiolchgar iawn amdano, gwaith sy'n dadlau'r achos dros ymateb mwy cymesur i fater gwirioneddol ddifrifol. Nid wyf wedi siarad ag unrhyw ffermwr nad yw'n cydnabod bod angen i ansawdd dŵr fod yn well. Mae pawb eisiau cydweithio ar hyn, dull tîm Cymru o weithredu.

Rwyf wedi ysgrifennu at Brif Weinidog Cymru i ofyn am asesiad o'r effaith economaidd. Fe wneuthum hynny ym mis Awst, gan gydnabod bod costau uwch yn rhan o bryder ffermwyr ynglŷn â'r dyfodol. Rwy'n pryderu y bydd canlyniadau anfwriadol y rheoliadau hyn i'w teimlo ymhell y tu hwnt i giât y fferm unigol, oherwydd ni roddwyd digon o sylw i'r effaith ehangach ar ein cymunedau gwledig, na goblygiadau i gadwyni cyflenwi cyn ac ar ôl giât y fferm. Cefais fy atgoffa heddiw ddiwethaf y byddai'r terfyn rhanddirymiad 170 kg arfaethedig yn arwain at gyfradd ddadstocio gwartheg llaeth o 17 y cant—colled i ni o oddeutu 330 miliwn litr o gynhyrchiant llaeth. Mae gwir angen inni weithio gyda'n gilydd i sicrhau bod y cyfnod adolygu pedair blynedd, sydd wedi'i gynnwys yn y rheoliadau, yn edrych nid yn unig ar effaith y rheoliadau ar leihau llygredd amaethyddol, ond ar effaith y rheoliadau ar y diwydiant ei hun.

Fy nghwestiwn cyntaf, os caf, Weinidog, yw deall ychydig mwy am y cynllun trwyddedu arfaethedig a sut y mae hynny'n cyd-fynd ag argymhelliad 1 yn yr adroddiad. Mae gennyf gwestiynau, er enghraifft, ynglŷn â faint o fusnesau fferm a all ddisgwyl elwa. A fydd unrhyw wersi i'w dysgu i lywio newidiadau posibl i'r rheoliadau? Beth yw paramedrau'r ymgynghoriad i sicrhau ei fod yn deg, yn gytbwys ac yn cael ei arwain gan dystiolaeth, a beth yw'r meini prawf llwyddiant ar gyfer yr ymgynghoriad? Mae ffermwyr wedi dweud dro ar ôl tro mai dim ond ateb dros dro yw gohirio'n unig, felly mae angen eglurder i ffermwyr ynglŷn â beth y mae'r cynllun trwyddedu yn ei olygu'n hirdymor mewn gwirionedd.

Hoffwn hefyd ganolbwyntio ar argymhelliad 2, a chostau cyflwyno'r rheoliadau hyn. Mae'r pecyn cyllido hyd yma yn llawer is na'r hyn yw ffigyrau'r Llywodraeth ei hun ar gyfer y gost ymlaen llaw o tua £360 miliwn. Mae'r FUW wedi amcangyfrif y gallai'r gost fod tua £450 miliwn mewn gwirionedd, sy'n wahaniaeth enfawr. Ni ellir rhoi'r £20 miliwn ychwanegol yr wythnos diwethaf yn ei gyd-destun heb gael manylion llawn am gymorth ariannol hyd yma, ac yn wyneb pwysau costau sy'n cynyddu'n barhaus i'n ffermwyr, mae'n swnio fel diferyn bach yn y môr.

Fel y nododd Paul Davies, mae'r dechnoleg newydd yn ddiddorol iawn, ac rwy'n pryderu y gallai'r dechnoleg newydd sy'n datblygu negyddu'r angen i adeiladu storfeydd slyri newydd. Bydd rhai ffermwyr wedi gwario symiau enfawr o arian a chanfod wedyn nad oedd angen y gwariant, gan roi pwysau costau ychwanegol enfawr ar ffermydd. Felly, mae angen cysoni rhwng y cynllun trwyddedu arfaethedig, y cyfnod adolygu pedair blynedd a chyflwyno mesurau amgen. I fod yn bryfoclyd, fy nghwestiwn fyddai: pam na chawn ni aros nes bod y dechnoleg newydd yn dod yn weithredol a gweld pa effaith a gaiff?

Mae gwir angen eglurder ynghylch pa adnoddau ychwanegol sydd eu hangen, gan CNC er enghraifft, fel y nododd y Cadeirydd a chan eraill hefyd. Heb y rôl reoleiddio effeithiol honno, cosbi ffermwyr yn unig y mae'r rheoliadau hyn. Hefyd, rwy'n nodi'r pwynt gan fy nghyd-Aelod Mabon ap Gwynfor ynghylch capasiti adrannau cynllunio awdurdodau lleol. Maent dan bwysau aruthrol. Yng Ngheredigion, rwy'n deall mai un swyddog cynllunio sy'n ymdrin â'r holl ffermwyr sy'n gwneud ceisiadau ar gyfer storfeydd slyri ar hyn o bryd.

Mae angen dull tîm Cymru o weithredu. Yng ngoleuni'r cyhoeddiad a wnaed gan y Llywodraeth a Phlaid Cymru yr wythnos diwethaf, byddwn yn croesawu eglurder ynglŷn ag a fydd y dyddiad cau ar gyfer cynigion amgen yn cael ei ymestyn, ac a fydd Llywodraeth Cymru'n ailedrych yn awr ar y cynigion amgen a gyflwynwyd gan y sector. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

15:30

Can I start by commending the committee for a fabulous report? But it is a shame that we ever got to having to have this report. I've just listened to Jane Dodds from the Liberal Democrats preach how bad this is for farmers, but if her party had stepped up in the last term of the Senedd and supported farmers, like Plaid Cymru and us on the Conservative benches did, we would never, ever be in this situation. So, I find some of her comments quite hypocritical.

What I do want to talk about to the Minister—and we do welcome some of the announcements that you have made—is around the additional £20 million, and on recommendation 3 about the pressure this is going to put on our planning authorities. I do not believe, and nor do the industry, that this additional £20 million is going to help farmers to cope with these regulations when they come in, with the infrastructure costs, and everything associated with that. I've got a number of friends who are farmers, who say that some of the money that you're making available won't even put the concrete in the ground to allow this to happen.

What I'd like to hear from the Minister—. Yes, additional money is welcomed, but we're going to have to see more investment, because if you're asking farmers yet again to fork out more and more money, it's going to make farm businesses unviable and unsustainable, going forward. I'm sure we don't want to see these regulations driving our farmers from the land, from producing food to keep our public fed and watered. Because if we see our farmers leaving, our rural communities right across our country are going to die. I know that's not something that I want to see, and my colleagues don't want to see here. So, additional funding is welcomed, and I do hope that you put more money available to support the recommendations that you've put forward. Thank you.

A gaf fi ddechrau drwy ganmol y pwyllgor am adroddiad gwych? Ond mae'n drueni inni gyrraedd sefyllfa lle bu'n rhaid cael yr adroddiad hwn. Rwyf newydd wrando ar Jane Dodds o’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn pregethu pa mor ddrwg yw hyn i ffermwyr, ond pe bai ei phlaid wedi camu i’r adwy yn nhymor y Senedd ddiwethaf a chefnogi ffermwyr, fel y gwnaeth Plaid Cymru a ninnau ar feinciau’r Ceidwadwyr, ni fyddem byth yn y sefyllfa hon. Felly, credaf fod rhai o’i sylwadau braidd yn rhagrithiol.

Yr hyn yr hoffwn ei drafod gyda'r Gweinidog—ac rydym yn croesawu rhai o’r cyhoeddiadau a wnaed gennych—yw'r £20 miliwn ychwanegol, ac argymhelliad 3, sy'n ymwneud â'r pwysau y bydd hyn yn ei roi ar ein hawdurdodau cynllunio. Ni chredaf, ac nid yw'r diwydiant yn credu ychwaith, fod yr £20 miliwn ychwanegol hwn yn mynd i helpu ffermwyr i ymdopi â’r rheoliadau hyn pan fyddant ar waith, gyda’r costau seilwaith, a phopeth sy’n gysylltiedig â hynny. Mae gennyf nifer o ffrindiau sy'n ffermwyr ac sy'n dweud na fydd rhywfaint o'r arian yr ydych yn ei ddarparu hyd yn oed yn rhoi'r concrit yn y ddaear i ganiatáu i hyn ddigwydd.

Yr hyn yr hoffwn ei glywed gan y Gweinidog—. Ydy, mae arian ychwanegol i’w groesawu, ond rydym yn mynd i orfod gweld mwy o fuddsoddiad, oherwydd os ydych yn gofyn i ffermwyr dalu mwy a mwy o arian eto fyth, mae hynny’n mynd i wneud busnesau fferm yn anhyfyw ac yn anghynaliadwy yn y dyfodol. Rwy’n siŵr nad ydym am weld y rheoliadau hyn yn gyrru ein ffermwyr oddi ar y tir, ac yn eu hatal rhag cynhyrchu bwyd a diod ar gyfer ein cyhoedd. Oherwydd os bydd ein ffermwyr yn rhoi'r gorau iddi, mae ein cymunedau gwledig ledled ein gwlad yn mynd i farw. Gwn nad yw hynny'n rhywbeth rwyf fi am ei weld, ac nid yw fy nghyd-Aelodau yma am ei weld. Felly, mae cyllid ychwanegol i'w groesawu, ac rwy'n gobeithio y byddwch yn darparu mwy o arian i gefnogi'r argymhellion a gyflwynwyd gennych. Diolch.

Dwi'n mynd i gychwyn drwy gydnabod a chroesawu'r hyn a gyhoeddwyd gan Blaid Cymru a'r Llywodraeth yr wythnos diwethaf—ddim cweit yn taro nodyn mor sinigaidd, efallai, ag un neu ddau. Dyw e ddim, wrth gwrs, yn ddiwedd proses, ond mae e'n cadw'r drafodaeth yn fyw ac mae e'n golygu bod yna newid agwedd wedi bod. Y dewis arall oedd ein bod ni jest yn ei adael e i fynd a chario ymlaen. Felly mae angen cydnabod, dwi'n meddwl, bod yna waith aruthrol wedi digwydd ar y meinciau yma i ddod i'r pwynt yma ac i o leiaf nawr gyflwyno'r cyfle y bydd o leiaf rhai o ffermwyr Cymru yn cael trwydded a bod popeth yn cwympo i'w le er mwyn sicrhau eu bod nhw'n gallu chwalu 250 kg yr hectar o nitradau ar y tir.

Mae'r £20 miliwn, wrth gwrs, ar ben beth sydd eisoes wedi ei ymrwymo, ond does neb yn dweud bod hynny'n mynd i dalu am bopeth. Ond 'rargol, mae e'n well na beth oedd yna cyn hynny, felly peidiwch â bod mor negyddol a pheidiwch â bod mor sinigaidd. Ond dŷn ni ddim yn cael ein dallu gan y ffaith bod yna lot rhagor o waith i'w wneud. Un o'r pethau dwi eisiau cyfeirio ato fe hefyd yw bod yna edrych eto ar asesiad effaith rheoleiddiol. Dwi'n meddwl bod hwnna yn arwyddocaol. Oherwydd dŷn ni mewn cyd-destun gwahanol—mae'r creisis costau byw, dŷn ni'n gwybod bod costau mewnbynnau yn y diwydiant wedi mynd trwy'r to. Mae costau adeiladu, inflation adeiladu, i gwrdd â'r isadeiledd sydd ei angen yn fyd cwbl newydd. Ac felly, mae hi'n berffaith iawn, dwi'n meddwl, bod yr asesiad yna yn cael ei edrych arno eto, fel ei fod e yn adlewyrchu'r cyd-destun newydd—Wcráin, a phopeth arall, a diogelwch bwyd—sydd angen ei gadw mewn cof.

Ond mae yna gwestiynau difrifol a gofidiau real iawn yn dal i fod, ac mae'r Cadeirydd, wrth gwrs, wedi cyfeirio at un ohonyn nhw, sef yr ymlyniad yma at y cyfnodau caeedig—y closed periods yma. Dwi wedi codi hyn gyda chi yn y gorffennol, Weinidog; ddwy flynedd a mwy yn ôl, fe wnes i gyfeirio at y ffaith bod rhai o amgylcheddwyr mwyaf Prydain yn dweud bod ffermio'n ôl y calendr yn wrthgynhyrchiol, yn counterproductive. Ac fe wnaethoch chi gytuno eich bod chi'n stryglo â'r approach yna a chyda cyfiawnhau'r approach yna, a chydnabod ar y pryd nad yw e, fel y clywsom ni, yn cymryd ystyriaeth o'r ffaith y gallai fod dyddiau yn y cyfnod agored sy'n gwbl anaddas ar gyfer chwalu tail, a dyddiau yn y cyfnod caeedig fyddai yn addas ar gyfer gwneud hynny. Ond, wrth gwrs, dyna rŷch chi wedi ei ddewis i'w ymgorffori yn y rheoliadau.

Felly, wrth ymateb i'r ddadl, efallai y gallwch chi ddweud wrthym ni beth wnaeth eich perswadio chi bod hynny yn dderbyniol. Beth newidiodd eich meddwl, yn erbyn, fel dwi'n dweud, rhai o amgylcheddwyr mwyaf Prydain, bod edrych ar galendr i weld os yw'r amgylchiadau'n ffafriol yn well nag edrych drwy'r ffenest? Dyna mae'r rheoliadau yn ei ddweud. Ac mae'ch ymateb chi i'r argymhelliad yna—argymhelliad 8 yw e, os dwi'n cofio'n iawn—yn cyfeirio at dechnoleg, a bod technoleg yn cael ei ddatblygu, a'n bod ni o fewn cyrraedd i fabwysiadu system, fel y clywon ni eto, sy'n llawer mwy amser real—real time—ac yn cyrraedd trachywiredd—precision—o gae i gae. Mae'r dechnoleg yna, ac mae e o fewn dim i fod yn dechnoleg fyddai modd i'w rolio fe allan ar draws y wlad. 

Ond, wedyn, yn eich ymateb, rŷch chi'n dweud y gwnewch chi ystyried hyn yn ystod yr adolygiad pedair blynedd. Wel, ydy hynny'n golygu eich bod chi'n mynd i orfodi'r sector i fuddsoddi mewn isadeiledd, i wario miliynau ar filiynau o arian cyhoeddus—a'u harian nhw eu hunain—ac wedyn efallai, mewn dwy flynedd, dweud, 'O, mae gyda ni dechnoleg nawr, bydd dim angen lot o hwn'? Mae wir angen i chi ailystyried, dwi'n meddwl, y pwynt yna. 

I'm going to start by acknowledging and welcoming what was announced by Plaid Cymru and the Government last week—not quite as cynical as some, perhaps. It's not the end of the process, of course, but it does keep the debate alive, and it does mean that there has been a change of attitude. The other choice was that we just let it go and carry on. So, I think we need to acknowledge that great work has been done on these benches to get to this point and to at least provide an opportunity that at least some Welsh farmers will be licensed and that everything will fall into place to ensure that they can spread 250 kg per hectare of nitrates on the land.

The £20 million, of course, is in addition to what's already been committed, but nobody's saying that that's going to pay for everything. But surely, it's better than what was there previously, so don't be so negative and don't be so cynical. But we're not blinded by the fact that there's a lot of work still to be done, and one of the things that I want to refer to also is that there is going to be another look at the regulatory impact assessment. Because we're in a different context—there's the cost-of-living crisis, we know that the costs of inputs in the industry have gone through the roof. The cost of construction, and the inflation in construction, to meet the infrastructure requirement is entirely transformed. And I think it's quite right therefore that that assessment should be looked at again so that it does reflect the new context—Ukraine, food security, and all of those things—that we need to bear in mind.

But there are still serious questions and real concerns that remain, and the Chair, of course, has referred to one of them, namely this adherence to the closed periods. I've raised this with you in the past, Minister; two years and more ago, I referred to the fact that some of the UK's greatest environmentalists said that farming by calendar was counterproductive. And you agreed that you were struggling with that approach, and with justifying that approach, and you acknowledged at the time that it doesn't, as we heard, take account of the fact that there could be days in the open period that could be totally inappropriate for spreading slurry, and days in the closed periods that would be appropriate. But, of course, that's what you've chosen to incorporate in the regulations.

So, in responding to the debate, perhaps you could tell us what persuaded you that that was acceptable. What changed your mind against the views of some of the great UK environmentalists, that looking at a calendar to see whether the circumstances are favourable was better than looking through the window? That's essentially what the regulations say. And your response to that recommendation—it's recommendation 8 if memory serves me—does refer to technology, and that technology is being developed, and that we're approaching a time where we'll be able to adopt a system that is far more real time in nature, and will provide precision. So, the technology is there, and it's almost ready to be rolled out across the country. 

But in your response, you say that you will consider this during the four-year review. Well, does that mean that you will force the sector to invest in infrastructure, to spend millions upon millions of public money—and their own money—and then perhaps, in two years' time, you'll say 'Well, we have technology now, this won't be necessary'? So, you truly to need to reconsider on that point. 

Two more points just before I close. I think that contractors seem to have been forgotten by the Welsh Government in this. They're one of the biggest employers in our rural communities, with most of their work, of course, based on small, family-run farms. The three-month closed period is going to be pretty catastrophic for many of them. When 31 January arrives, they may well have no labour, no equipment to empty all these new big slurry stores, because, of course, they'd have little or no income coming in over the previous months. Some will go out of business. Some will vote with their feet and leave the industry. And if there are fewer contractors, then who on earth is going to be there to empty the bulging slurry stores when the closed period comes to an end on what many of us are now describing as national slurry spreading week? And if there's no-one there to move the slurry, then what happens? Maybe you could tell us how you think farmers can resolve that. I hope the regulatory impact assessment will take full account of the key role that contractors play.

Finally, we've heard a lot about planning; whilst I acknowledge there is a capacity issue, what I would ask you is: what is your message to those farmers who have actually already applied for planning permission to meet the new requirements with bigger slurry stores, but who've had their planning applications refused, not once, not twice, many times, and now find themselves not able to meet your new requirements and not being allowed to adapt in order to meet your new requirements? What's your message to them? Because what I'm hearing is that you are effectively forcing them to shut down the family farm.

Dau bwynt arall cyn i mi gloi. Credaf fod y contractwyr, yn ôl pob golwg, wedi cael eu hanghofio gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn hyn o beth. Hwy yw un o'r cyflogwyr mwyaf yn ein cymunedau gwledig, gyda'r rhan fwyaf o'u gwaith, wrth gwrs, yn seiliedig ar ffermydd bach, teuluol. Bydd y cyfnod gwaharddedig o dri mis yn drychinebus i lawer ohonynt. Pan fydd 31 Ionawr yn cyrraedd, mae’n bosibl iawn na fydd ganddynt unrhyw lafur, nac unrhyw offer i wagio’r holl storfeydd slyri mawr newydd hyn, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, ni fyddai ganddynt fawr ddim incwm, os o gwbl, yn dod i mewn dros y misoedd blaenorol. Bydd rhai'n mynd i'r wal. Bydd rhai yn pleidleisio â'u traed ac yn gadael y diwydiant. Ac os oes llai o gontractwyr, pwy ar y ddaear sy'n mynd i fod yno i wagio'r storfeydd slyri gorlawn pan ddaw'r cyfnod gwaharddedig i ben ar yr hyn y mae llawer ohonom bellach yn ei galw'n wythnos wasgaru slyri genedlaethol? Ac os na fydd unrhyw un yno i symud y slyri, beth sy'n digwydd wedyn? Efallai y gallech ddweud wrthym sut y credwch y gall ffermwyr ddatrys y broblem honno. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd yr asesiad effaith rheoleiddiol yn rhoi ystyriaeth lawn i’r rôl allweddol y mae contractwyr yn ei chwarae.

Yn olaf, clywsom gryn dipyn o sôn am gynllunio; er fy mod yn cydnabod bod problem gyda chapasiti, hoffwn ofyn i chi beth yw eich neges i’r ffermwyr sydd eisoes wedi gwneud cais am ganiatâd cynllunio i fodloni’r gofynion newydd gyda storfeydd slyri mwy o faint, ond y gwrthodwyd eu ceisiadau cynllunio, nid unwaith, nid ddwywaith, ond sawl gwaith, a bellach, ni allant fodloni eich gofynion newydd ac ni chaniateir iddynt addasu er mwyn bodloni eich gofynion newydd? Beth yw eich neges iddynt hwy? Oherwydd yr hyn a glywaf yw eich bod, i bob pwrpas, yn eu gorfodi i gau'r fferm deuluol.

15:35

Can I thank the committee for their report, and the Minister for the recent statement as well related to this? I better declare at the outset my role as the salmon champion. But also, I have to say, for the decade that I've been an elected representative, I've also championed the needs and aspirations of small and medium-scale farmers, particularly those who are strongly sustainable in their farming and are strongly pro-environment and environmental gains as well. And many of them, including award-winning farmers, are within my own constituency, which is often described as a former coalfield constituency. It's far more than that; it's a very rural constituency, and has always had farming embedded deep within it long before industry came there. 

We are facing really challenging times for farming, but we're also facing real challenges in terms of nature. We're in a nature crisis and a biodiversity crisis. We've seen recent announcements by the Welsh Government, who recognise that. We're running up to COP15 with the biodiversity announcements. We're looking for the targets to come back, to be bolted down by Julie James, the Minister, and to be translated into action here in Wales. So, that forms the backdrop of where we are. 

It's interesting, the response to this report—the polar response to it. Environmental groups have lined up to say this is really disappointing, this is really sad, this is a delay, and a delay means, once again, we're going to see polluted rivers. Farming Unions—the Farmers Union of Wales, the National Farmers Union, and others—have lined up to say that this is a breathing space. That's an actual quote from one of them—a breathing space, a chance to rethink perhaps, not just with the licensing and so on, but, actually, more fundamentally. That's what they're putting out to their members. So, it leaves me in some confusion, Llywydd, as to actually what we are discussing here, not just on the back of the report, but what the Government has announced. Is this a fundamental rethink? Is it just a temporary pause? Is it some tweaking? Or is it, actually, that in three, four months, five months, we proceed as normal and we do the review, and we're actually going to proceed as has originally been laid out? I don't know. Perhaps the Minister can answer me today, but the challenge and the diversity in those responses has been quite telling. 

There's clearly been a role for this committee report. There has been a challenge within the courts that was unsuccessful. The committee actually had to wait to see what that was before it brought forward its own consideration and have the Minister in front of them. I see that. There's also been the co-operation agreement as well, and I have no doubt, personally, that the co-operation agreement has played into what we're seeing playing out in front of us right at this moment. But my message is as simple as this: we can't carry on, given the uncertainty out there. The points that Llyr just made about investment decisions by farmers are well made, as is the point that Jayne made about exactly the same: are we going to say to ones who've already invested, 'Well, that was a waste of money' because we're now going to have some super-duper technology solution that means that was wasted money?

There may well be technology solutions coming down the line in future. Absolutely. But we cannot discount the investment that some farmers have chosen to make to try and do the right thing, to actually go to their bank managers, and say, 'Can we lever in some funding? I'll need to take out a 20-year loan in order to do it. I'm going to go to some of the Farming Connect support and so on to do this as well, but I'm going to have to take a decision here.' We can't throw them under the bus now; we're going to have to say to them, 'That is money well spent not only for your farm, but for the environment as well'. Farmers will welcome some additional time, there's no doubt, within this, but, I think, we need to be absolutely honest, as this goes forward with the consultation on licencing and so on, what this actually means, whether it's a fundamental rethink of something else. 

One thing I did want to stress was the importance of these new NRW advisers. For too long, we haven't had the right information, the right people standing on site, who understand farming, but also are willing to give the most modern, the most up-to-date thinking in terms of what the best environmental support is. I've got environmentally award-winning farmers in my patch, they know what they're doing, but it's not true of every farmer. When that farmer also has an agronomist saying, 'Let me advise you on this stuff, and, by the way, I'm selling it as well', that's not the way to proceed. So, these NRW advisers, the quantum of them, and the expertise of them, and getting them in place in time, is going to be critical. 

Let me just turn to one point that illustrates this classic thing we were saying about uncertainty here. It relates to a few contributions that have already been made. On recommendation 1—and it is worth just pulling out just a couple of points from here—the Government is unable to accept this recommendation. This is to do with derogation on grassland farms that spread up to 250 kg per hectare and so on. It goes on to say that at no point did derogation in previous regimes enable the application of nutrients above the level of crop need, et cetera. But, then, of course, there's been a statement. I suspect it's come out of the Plaid Cymru co-operation agreement. We need, at some point, to draw a line under all of this. There is a delay; next spring, we need to have absolute certainty, because, frankly, small and medium-scale farmers won't forgive us unless we give real certainty as soon as possible, and neither, frankly, will the environment: the quality of our rivers, the quality of our soil and everything else. We need to decide which way is the way forward, and, then, really get on with it. 

A gaf fi ddiolch i'r pwyllgor am eu hadroddiad, ac i'r Gweinidog am y datganiad diweddar ar hyn hefyd? Dylwn ddatgan ar y cychwyn fy rôl fel hyrwyddwr yr eog. Ond hefyd, mae'n rhaid imi ddweud, drwy gydol y degawd y bûm yn gynrychiolydd etholedig, rwyf hefyd wedi hyrwyddo anghenion a dyheadau ffermydd bach a chanolig eu maint, yn enwedig y rhai sy'n ffermio'n gynaliadwy iawn ac sy'n gryf o blaid yr amgylchedd ac enillion amgylcheddol hefyd. Ac mae llawer ohonynt, gan gynnwys ffermwyr sydd wedi ennill gwobrau, yn byw yn fy etholaeth i, a ddisgrifir yn aml fel un o etholaethau'r hen feysydd glo. Mae'n llawer mwy na hynny; mae'n etholaeth wledig iawn, ac mae ffermio bob amser wedi bod yn rhan annatod ohoni, ymhell cyn i ddiwydiant ddod yno.

Rydym yn wynebu cyfnod heriol iawn i'r byd ffermio, ond rydym hefyd yn wynebu heriau gwirioneddol o ran natur. Rydym mewn argyfwng natur ac argyfwng bioamrywiaeth. Rydym wedi gweld cyhoeddiadau diweddar gan Lywodraeth Cymru, sy’n cydnabod hynny. Rydym yn agosáu at COP15 gyda'r cyhoeddiadau bioamrywiaeth. Rydym am i’r targedau ddod yn ôl, i'w cloi yn eu lle gan Julie James, y Gweinidog, a’u troi’n gamau gweithredu yma yng Nghymru. Felly, mae hynny'n ffurfio cefndir i'n sefyllfa ar hyn o bryd.

Mae'n ddiddorol, yr ymateb i'r adroddiad hwn—yr ymateb pegynol iddo. Mae grwpiau amgylcheddol wedi dweud yn unfryd fod hyn yn wirioneddol siomedig, mae hyn yn drist iawn, mae hyn yn ohiriad, ac mae gohirio'n golygu, unwaith eto, ein bod yn mynd i weld afonydd llygredig. Mae undebau'r ffermwyr—Undeb Amaethwyr Cymru, Undeb Cenedlaethol yr Amaethwyr, ac eraill—wedi dweud yn unfryd fod hyn rhoi lle i anadlu. Dyna ddyfyniad gan un ohonynt—lle i anadlu, cyfle i ailfeddwl, efallai, nid yn unig gyda'r trwyddedu ac ati, ond yn fwy sylfaenol. Dyna maent yn ei ddweud wrth eu haelodau. Felly, mae'n peri rhywfaint o ddryswch i mi, Lywydd, ynglŷn â beth yn union yr ydym yn ei drafod yma, nid yn unig yn sgil yr adroddiad, ond yr hyn y mae'r Llywodraeth wedi'i gyhoeddi. A yw'n ailfeddwl sylfaenol? A yw'n ohirio dros dro yn unig? A yw'n rhyw fath o addasu? Neu a yw'n golygu y byddwn, ymhen tri, pedwar mis, pum mis, yn dal ati yn ôl yr arfer ac yn cynnal yr adolygiad, ac yn bwrw ymlaen â'r hyn a nodwyd yn y lle cyntaf? Nid wyf yn gwybod. Efallai y gall y Gweinidog fy ateb heddiw, ond mae’r her a’r amrywiaeth yn yr ymatebion yn dweud llawer wrthym.

Mae’n amlwg fod rôl wedi bod i’r adroddiad pwyllgor hwn. Cafwyd her aflwyddiannus yn y llysoedd. Roedd yn rhaid i’r pwyllgor aros i weld beth oedd hynny cyn iddo gyflwyno ei ystyriaeth ei hun a chael y Gweinidog o’u blaenau. Rwy'n gweld hynny. Rydym hefyd wedi cael y cytundeb cydweithio, ac nid oes gennyf unrhyw amheuaeth, yn bersonol, fod y cytundeb cydweithio wedi chwarae rhan yn yr hyn a welwn yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Ond mae fy neges mor syml â hyn: ni allwn barhau, o ystyried yr ansicrwydd parhaus. Mae’r pwyntiau y mae Llyr newydd eu gwneud am benderfyniadau buddsoddi gan ffermwyr yn rhai da, yn ogystal â’r pwynt a wnaeth Jayne am yr un peth yn union: a ydym yn mynd i ddweud wrth y rhai sydd eisoes wedi buddsoddi, 'Wel, roedd hynny’n wastraff arian’ gan ein bod bellach yn mynd i gael rhyw ateb technolegol hynod sy'n golygu bod yr arian hwnnw wedi'i wastraffu?

Mae'n bosibl iawn y bydd atebion technolegol yn dod i'r amlwg yn y dyfodol. Yn sicr. Ond ni allwn ddiystyru’r buddsoddiad y mae rhai ffermwyr wedi dewis ei wneud i geisio gwneud y peth iawn, i fynd at eu rheolwyr banc, a dweud, 'A gawn ni gael rhywfaint o gyllid? Bydd angen imi gael benthyciad 20 mlynedd er mwyn gwneud hyn. Rwy'n mynd i ofyn am gymorth gan Cyswllt Ffermio ac ati i wneud hyn hefyd, ond bydd rhaid imi wneud penderfyniad yma.' Ni allwn eu taflu o dan y bws yn awr; rydym yn mynd i orfod dweud wrthynt, 'Roedd yn werth gwario'r arian hwnnw nid yn unig ar gyfer eich fferm, ond ar gyfer yr amgylchedd hefyd'. Bydd ffermwyr yn croesawu rhywfaint o amser ychwanegol, nid oes amheuaeth, gyda hyn, ond wrth i hyn fynd rhagddo gyda’r ymgynghoriad ar drwyddedu ac ati, credaf fod angen inni fod yn gwbl onest ynglŷn â beth y mae hyn yn ei olygu mewn gwirionedd, p'un a yw'n rhywbeth arall sydd wedi'i ailfeddwl yn llwyr ai peidio.

Un peth yr oeddwn am ei bwysleisio oedd pwysigrwydd cynghorwyr newydd CNC. Ers gormod o amser, nid ydym wedi cael y wybodaeth gywir, y bobl gywir yn sefyll ar y safle, sy'n deall ffermio, ond sydd hefyd yn barod i fabwysiadu'r meddylfryd mwyaf modern, mwyaf cyfredol o ran beth yw'r cymorth amgylcheddol gorau. Mae gennyf ffermwyr sydd wedi ennill gwobrau amgylcheddol yn fy ardal i, maent yn gwybod beth y maent yn ei wneud, ond nid yw hynny'n wir am bob ffermwr. Pan fydd gan y ffermwr hwnnw agronomegydd yn dweud hefyd, 'Gadewch i mi eich cynghori ar y pethau hyn, a gyda llaw, rwy'n ei werthu hefyd', nid dyna'r ffordd ymlaen. Felly, bydd y cynghorwyr CNC hyn, gyda'i gilydd, a’u harbenigedd, a’u rhoi ar waith mewn pryd, yn hollbwysig.

Gadewch imi droi at un pwynt sy'n dangos y peth nodweddiadol hwn yr oeddem yn ei ddweud am ansicrwydd yma. Mae’n ymwneud ag ychydig o gyfraniadau a wnaed eisoes. Ar argymhelliad 1—ac mae'n werth tynnu ychydig o bwyntiau allan o hyn—ni all y Llywodraeth dderbyn yr argymhelliad hwn. Mae hyn yn ymwneud â rhanddirymiad ar ffermydd glaswelltir sy'n gwasgaru hyd at 250 kg yr hectar ac ati. Mae'n mynd ymlaen i ddweud nad yw rhanddirymiad dan gyfundrefnau blaenorol erioed wedi galluogi gwasgaru mwy o faethynnau na’r hyn sydd ei angen ar gnydau, ac ati. Ond wedyn, wrth gwrs, cafwyd datganiad. Rwy’n tybio ei fod wedi dod allan o'r cytundeb cydweithio â Phlaid Cymru. Mae angen i ni, rywbryd, dynnu llinell o dan hyn i gyd. Mae yna ohiriad; y gwanwyn nesaf, mae angen inni gael sicrwydd llwyr, oherwydd, a dweud y gwir, ni fydd ffermwyr bach a chanolig yn maddau i ni oni bai ein bod yn rhoi sicrwydd gwirioneddol cyn gynted â phosibl, ac a dweud y gwir, ni fydd yr amgylchedd yn maddau i ni ychwaith: ansawdd ein hafonydd, ansawdd ein pridd a phopeth arall. Mae angen inni benderfynu pa ffordd yw’r ffordd ymlaen, a mynd i'r afael â hyn o ddifrif.

15:40

I have read the report with interest. I've made my views very clear on agricultural pollution many times over many years here in this Chamber. I contrasted the tough, but necessary, action that we've taken in Wales with the regime of negligence in England only last week. That has enabled a proliferation of agricultural pollution in our waterways with devastating environmental consequences. So, while I'm cautious, and I mean extremely cautious, to welcome any watering down of the regulations—because that's what it is—that were introduced last April, I appreciate that politics is the art of the possible, and, in the end, whatever works to protect the environment is the way forward. So, I support the Minister's resolve to find a sustainable solution that works for our farming industry, but achieves those vital ecological ends. And you won't be surprised that I'll be watching that extremely closely and speaking out, if I feel the need. I am frustrated that some farming businesses failed to take necessary steps to comply with the regulations pending that unsuccessful judicial review. The Minister's recent statement implied as much. 

Rwyf wedi darllen yr adroddiad gyda diddordeb. Rwyf wedi datgan fy marn yn glir iawn ar lygredd amaethyddol sawl gwaith dros nifer o flynyddoedd yma yn y Siambr. Cymharais y camau llym, ond angenrheidiol, a gymerwyd gennym yng Nghymru â’r gyfundrefn o esgeulustod yn Lloegr yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae hynny wedi galluogi llawer iawn o lygredd amaethyddol yn ein dyfrffyrdd gyda chanlyniadau amgylcheddol dinistriol. Felly, er fy mod yn ofalus, ac rwy’n golygu hynod o ofalus, wrth groesawu unrhyw lastwreiddio ar y rheoliadau—gan mai dyna ydyw—a gyflwynwyd fis Ebrill diwethaf, rwy’n derbyn mai celfyddyd yr hyn sy'n bosibl yw gwleidyddiaeth, ac yn y pen draw, beth bynnag sy'n gweithio i ddiogelu'r amgylchedd yw'r ffordd ymlaen. Felly, rwy’n cefnogi penderfyniad y Gweinidog i ddod o hyd i ateb cynaliadwy sy’n gweithio i’n diwydiant ffermio, ond sy’n cyflawni’r amcanion ecolegol hanfodol hynny. Ac ni fyddwch yn synnu y byddaf yn gwylio hynny'n agos iawn ac yn dweud fy marn, os byddaf yn teimlo bod angen. Rwy’n teimlo'n rhwystredig fod rhai busnesau ffermio wedi methu rhoi'r camau angenrheidiol ar waith i gydymffurfio â’r rheoliadau wrth aros am yr adolygiad barnwrol aflwyddiannus hwnnw. Roedd datganiad diweddar y Gweinidog yn awgrymu hynny hefyd.

15:45

In a minute.

It's not acceptable, and it does really set a poor precedent. We've heard from Huw Irranca quite clearly that it is the case that most farmers want to comply with and see the advantage of a favourable environmental condition, not only on their farms but in the rivers as well. It is not the intention, we all know that it isn't the intention, of most farmers to pollute. Unfortunately, it has been the case that there have been instances where deliberate pollution has happened and there's been plenty of evidence to that end.

Mewn munud.

Nid yw'n dderbyniol, ac mae'n gosod cynsail gwael. Rydym wedi clywed gan Huw Irranca yn gwbl glir fod y rhan fwyaf o ffermwyr yn dymuno cydymffurfio a gweld manteision cyflwr amgylcheddol ffafriol, nid yn unig ar eu ffermydd ond mewn afonydd hefyd. Nid yw'n fwriad, a gŵyr pob un ohonom nad yw'n fwriad, gan y rhan fwyaf o ffermwyr i lygru. Yn anffodus, bu achosion lle cafwyd llygredd bwriadol, ac mae digon o dystiolaeth i'r perwyl hwnnw.

Thank you. I'm grateful to the Member for giving way, and I'd just like to declare an interest as well; it was remiss of me not to do that at the beginning.

Diolch. Rwy’n ddiolchgar i’r Aelod am ildio, a hoffwn ddatgan buddiant hefyd; roeddwn ar fai na wneuthum hynny ar y dechrau.

But, at the same time, the reason that these businesses have failed to comply in the sense that you're saying is that they're trying to; they're trying their very best to go to local authorities to ask for that planning application, to ask for that planning to be approved so that they can install the infrastructure, the slurry lagoons that are necessary, but they're being turned down by local authorities.

Ond ar yr un pryd, y rheswm pam fod y busnesau hyn wedi methu cydymffurfio yn yr ystyr a ddywedwch yw am eu bod yn ceisio gwneud hynny; maent yn gwneud eu gorau glas i fynd at awdurdodau lleol i ofyn am y cais cynllunio, i ofyn am i’r cais cynllunio gael ei gymeradwyo fel y gallant osod y seilwaith, y lagwnau slyri sy’n angenrheidiol, ond maent yn cael eu gwrthod gan awdurdodau lleol.

That is probably the case in some instances. I don't accept it's the case in all instances, though, I have to say. And I don't think that businesses should be rewarded for failure to prepare or to comply with legal obligations. However, I do appreciate that the rising costs and global circumstances that were mentioned have added additional pressures. Although, actually, these regulations were well known well ahead of that. 

So, I'd like to know about the £20 million—and I welcome it—to help achieve compliance, but to be reassured that people aren't being double paid—that people who've already been paid to comply aren't getting more money or the same money twice. 

The committee recommends this derogation that we've heard about—the 250 kg per hectare of nitrogen. While that was not accepted, the implementation date for the 170 kg per hectare limit has been put back. I find that extremely disappointing. The Minister has announced a consultation on the 250 kg per hectare licensing scheme until 2050. We should, of course, assess the economic and the environmental impact of the reduced limit, but in my view, 170 should remain the default limit. I support Wales Environment Link's view that alternative ways of managing animal waste should be found, as opposed to reintroducing that higher limit. So, there are other ways. If we don't look at other ways, we're back to exactly where we started again, and agricultural pollution is the most frequent cause of contamination in our waterways. If we fail to deal with that, we fail our farming community and the wider environment. With that in mind, we should all support whatever is available and whatever works for the protection of our environment, which, ultimately, is protecting the future sustainability of all our land and our waterways.

Mae’n debyg fod hynny’n wir mewn rhai achosion. Nid wyf yn derbyn ei fod yn wir ym mhob achos, serch hynny, mae'n rhaid imi ddweud. Ac ni chredaf y dylai busnesau gael eu gwobrwyo am fethu paratoi neu gydymffurfio â rhwymedigaethau cyfreithiol. Fodd bynnag, rwy'n sylweddoli bod y costau cynyddol a’r amgylchiadau byd-eang y cyfeiriwyd atynt wedi ychwanegu pwysau ychwanegol. Er, mewn gwirionedd, roedd y rheoliadau hyn yn hysbys iawn ymhell cyn hynny.

Felly, hoffwn wybod am yr £20 miliwn—ac rwy'n ei groesawu—i helpu i sicrhau cydymffurfiaeth, ond hoffwn sicrwydd nad yw pobl yn cael eu talu ddwywaith—nad yw pobl sydd eisoes wedi cael eu talu i gydymffurfio yn cael mwy o arian neu'r un arian ddwywaith.

Mae'r pwyllgor yn argymell y rhanddirymiad hwn y clywsom amdano—y 250 kg yr hectar o nitrogen. Er na chafodd hynny ei dderbyn, mae’r dyddiad gweithredu ar gyfer y terfyn 170 kg yr hectar wedi’i ohirio. Credaf fod hynny’n hynod o siomedig. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi cyhoeddi ymgynghoriad ar y cynllun trwyddedu 250 kg yr hectar tan 2050. Dylem asesu effaith economaidd ac amgylcheddol y terfyn is wrth gwrs, ond yn fy marn i, dylid cadw 170 fel y terfyn diofyn. Rwy'n cefnogi barn Cyswllt Amgylchedd Cymru y dylid dod o hyd i ffyrdd amgen o reoli gwastraff anifeiliaid, yn hytrach nag ailgyflwyno’r terfyn uwch. Felly, mae ffyrdd eraill i'w cael. Os nad edrychwn ar ffyrdd eraill, rydym yn ôl lle dechreuasom, a llygredd amaethyddol yw'r rheswm mwyaf cyffredin dros halogiad yn ein dyfrffyrdd. Os nad ydym yn llwyddo i fynd i'r afael â hynny, rydym yn methu ar ran ein cymuned ffermio a’r amgylchedd ehangach. Gyda hynny mewn golwg, dylem oll gefnogi beth bynnag sydd ar gael a beth bynnag sy’n gweithio i ddiogelu ein hamgylchedd, sydd, yn y pen draw, yn golygu diogelu cynaliadwyedd ein holl dir a’n dyfrffyrdd ar gyfer y dyfodol.

Y Gweinidog materion gwledig nawr i gyfrannu i'r ddadl—Lesley Griffiths.

The Minister for rural affairs now to contribute to the debate—Lesley Griffiths.

Member
Lesley Griffiths 15:48:37
Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd

Diolch, Llywydd. I would like to thank the Chair and members of the committee for their work in carrying out this review and drawing up the report and recommendations. And I thank those who've participated in today's debate and I will try to respond to as many points as possible.

The report from the committee raises a series of constructive points with respect to the implementation of the regulations. The report provides recommendations that seek to help us ensure that the regulations and support available to help farmers comply are both well understood and adequate to the scale of the challenge we all face. I've agreed to provide further detail and assurances on funding and in relation to NRW's enforcement role and the arrangements for regulatory review. I've provided further clarification in relation to how we guard against unintended consequences and how they can be applied in a way that safeguards the interest of tenant farmers and those facing TB restrictions. 

The committee has also made recommendations in relation to the work of the Wales land management forum, and I fully support the spirit of those recommendations. I am not able to direct the work of that forum, but with the agreement of its members, I am happy to continue to work with the group in exactly the way that the committee has recommended. The first recommendation of the committee report seeks the introduction of a process to allow farmers to spread higher levels of slurry, providing certain conditions are met. I've been working throughout the summer on ensuring that we find a way of responding positively to this recommendation and, as part of the co-operation agreement, Plaid Cymru has also been closely and actively engaged in this work.

Diolch, Lywydd. Hoffwn ddiolch i’r Cadeirydd ac aelodau’r pwyllgor am eu gwaith yn cynnal yr adolygiad hwn a llunio’r adroddiad a’r argymhellion. A diolch i’r rhai sydd wedi cymryd rhan yn y ddadl heddiw, ac rwyf am geisio ymateb i gynifer o bwyntiau â phosibl.

Mae adroddiad y pwyllgor yn codi cyfres o bwyntiau adeiladol mewn perthynas â rhoi'r rheoliadau ar waith. Mae’r adroddiad yn darparu argymhellion sy’n ceisio ein helpu i sicrhau bod y rheoliadau a’r cymorth sydd ar gael i helpu ffermwyr i gydymffurfio yn gwbl glir ac yn addas ar gyfer maint yr her sy’n ein hwynebu ni oll. Rwyf wedi cytuno i roi rhagor o fanylion a sicrwydd ynghylch cyllid ac mewn perthynas â rôl orfodi CNC a’r trefniadau ar gyfer adolygiad rheoleiddiol. Rwyf wedi rhoi eglurhad pellach mewn perthynas â sut yr ydym yn gwarchod rhag canlyniadau anfwriadol a sut y gellir eu rhoi ar waith mewn ffordd sy'n diogelu buddiannau ffermwyr tenant a'r rheini sy'n wynebu cyfyngiadau TB.

Mae’r pwyllgor hefyd wedi gwneud argymhellion mewn perthynas â gwaith fforwm rheoli tir Cymru, ac rwy'n cefnogi ysbryd yr argymhellion hynny'n llwyr. Ni allaf gyfarwyddo gwaith y fforwm, ond gyda chytundeb ei aelodau, rwy’n barod i barhau i weithio gyda’r grŵp yn yr union ffordd y mae’r pwyllgor wedi’i hargymell. Mae argymhelliad cyntaf adroddiad y pwyllgor yn gofyn am gyflwyno proses i ganiatáu i ffermwyr wasgaru lefelau uwch o slyri os caiff amodau penodol eu bodloni. Rwyf wedi bod yn gweithio drwy gydol yr haf ar sicrhau ein bod yn dod o hyd i ffordd o ymateb yn gadarnhaol i’r argymhelliad hwn, ac fel rhan o’r cytundeb cydweithio, mae Plaid Cymru hefyd wedi cymryd rhan agos a gweithredol yn y gwaith hwn.

Last week, I published a written statement arising from those discussions with Plaid Cymru, which sets out our intention to make provision for a consultation to take place to examine this proposal, and to bring forward changes to the regulations should it be established that such a scheme is both practical for farmers and protective of the environment on which they, as do all of us, rely. So, just to reassure Jane Dodds, I want to say that I can't pre-empt the consultation. It's a meaningful consultation, so no design has been worked up in the way that you are asking for some assurance, because it would be wrong to have a consultation that wasn't meaningful. Huw Irranca-Davies asked if there was going to be a fundamental rethink—absolutely not. This is just delaying one regulation whilst we look at a licensing scheme, and we will be working with Plaid Cymru to design that scheme and we will be going out to a full consultation. Paul Davies, again talking about the licensing scheme, you mentioned the need to ensure no further bureaucracy, and I go back to what I was saying to Jane Dodds, the consultation will be out there; it will be a 12-week consultation. Please, everybody, put your views forward, because, then, as we make the design of the scheme, obviously, we can ensure that there's less bureaucracy.

It is not possible to accept the committee's recommendation in relation to recommendation 1 in the way it was formulated—a point I think I have explained in detail in my response to the committee's report. However, I do hope that committee will see that this does provide a way of responding positively in the spirit in which I know that the recommendation was intended. 

The Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) Regulations—not nitrate vulnerable zones, Sam, you might want to continue discussing NVZs; clearly, you know the difference, I don't—are absolutely critical to delivering on our domestic and international legal obligations. And whilst the regulations focus on nitrates, the actions that they require are also a necessary means of addressing a range of other matters, all of which I know are extremely important to Members right across this Senedd.

Dealing with agricultural pollution is an urgent and necessary priority to mitigate the impact of the climate emergency, because of the greenhouse gasses it contains, as well as the release of emissions as a result of the environmental damage that it causes, and it needs, as Jane Dodds referred to, a team Wales approach. Agricultural pollution is the predominant source of harmful ammonia pollution, which threatens the development of children's lungs and levels of cardiac disease, as well as the conservation of ancient woodlands.

Quite a few Members raised the £20 million. James Evans mentioned it and clearly doesn't think that it's enough. And, as Llyr said, I don't think anybody would say that that would be the first amount of money that we've brought forward; we've brought significant funding forward. But let me just tell you: I don't have a pot of money where I can just find another £20 million, and it's just a pity that the UK Government put the bankers first, rather than our hard-working farmers. Joyce Watson looked for some assurance around farmers not being paid double, and I've always said that we could not give public money to ensure that farmers complied with the regulations that were already there, so I can assure you around that.

Several Members mentioned the new technology, and Cefin Campbell and I went to Gelli Aur to see how that technology was coming forward, and the Welsh Government's been very happy to support that. I hadn't been for about three years, I think, and it was good to see the progress that was being made. But we are still seeing substantiated agricultural pollution incidents every month reaching double figures this year again, and we have to do something now. Agricultural pollution is also a significant source of phosphate pollution, which is currently preventing the development of housing and other key infrastructure that we know is urgently needed to improve the lives of every community in Wales. So, I very much welcome the opportunity in this debate to underline my commitment to action on climate, to clean air, to water quality and to halting and reversing the decline in biodiversity, and I know that farmers—the majority of them—share those things as well. And any decision I make will honour and advance those commitments, and these commitments, let me just remind everybody, are enshrined in law. They are simply a reflection of our moral responsibility to hand on Wales's natural heritage to the next generation in a better state than we found it. 

In discussing our environmental obligations, it is, unfortunately, necessary to highlight that the UK Conservative Government has signalled its intention to repeal all retained EU law, and that includes critical environmental protections. So, I believe that this is a deeply misguided policy that will cause, at best—[Interruption.]. Yes.

Yr wythnos diwethaf, cyhoeddais ddatganiad ysgrifenedig yn sgil y trafodaethau hynny gyda Phlaid Cymru, sy’n nodi ein bwriad i wneud darpariaeth i gynnal ymgynghoriad i archwilio’r cynnig hwn, ac i gyflwyno newidiadau i’r rheoliadau os tybir bod cynllun o'r fath yn ymarferol i ffermwyr ac yn diogelu'r amgylchedd y maent hwy, fel pob un ohonom, yn ddibynnol arno. Felly, i dawelu meddwl Jane Dodds, hoffwn ddweud na allaf achub y blaen ar yr ymgynghoriad. Mae'n ymgynghoriad ystyrlon, felly nid oes unrhyw gynllun wedi'i lunio yn y ffordd y gofynnwch i gael rhywfaint o sicrwydd, gan y byddai'n amhriodol cael ymgynghoriad nad oedd yn ystyrlon. Gofynnodd Huw Irranca-Davies a fydd yna ailfeddwl sylfaenol—ddim o gwbl. Dim ond gohirio un rheoliad yw hyn wrth inni edrych ar gynllun trwyddedu, a byddwn yn gweithio gyda Phlaid Cymru i lunio’r cynllun hwnnw, a byddwn yn cynnal ymgynghoriad llawn. Paul Davies, unwaith eto'n sôn am y cynllun trwyddedu, fe sonioch am yr angen i sicrhau na cheir rhagor o fiwrocratiaeth, ac af yn ôl at yr hyn a ddywedais wrth Jane Dodds, y bydd yr ymgynghoriad yn cael ei gynnal; bydd yn ymgynghoriad 12 wythnos. Os gwelwch yn dda, bawb, cyflwynwch eich safbwyntiau, oherwydd felly, wrth inni lunio'r cynllun, yn amlwg, gallwn sicrhau bod yna lai o fiwrocratiaeth.

Nid yw’n bosibl derbyn argymhelliad y pwyllgor mewn perthynas ag argymhelliad 1 yn y ffordd y’i lluniwyd—pwynt y credaf fy mod wedi’i egluro’n fanwl yn fy ymateb i adroddiad y pwyllgor. Fodd bynnag, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y pwyllgor yn gweld bod hyn yn cynnig ffordd o ymateb yn gadarnhaol yn yr ysbryd y gwn y bwriadwyd yr argymhelliad.

Mae Rheoliadau Adnoddau Dŵr (Rheoli Llygredd Amaethyddol) (Cymru)—nid parthau perygl nitradau, Sam, efallai eich bod chi am barhau i drafod parthau perygl nitradau; yn amlwg, rydych yn gwybod beth yw'r gwahaniaeth, nid wyf fi—yn gwbl hanfodol er mwyn cyflawni ein rhwymedigaethau cyfreithiol domestig a rhyngwladol. Ac er bod y rheoliadau'n canolbwyntio ar nitradau, mae'r camau gweithredu sy'n ofynnol ar eu cyfer hefyd yn fodd angenrheidiol o fynd i'r afael ag amrywiaeth o faterion eraill, a gwn eu bod oll yn hynod bwysig i'r Aelodau ar draws y Senedd.

Mae ymdrin â llygredd amaethyddol yn flaenoriaeth bwysig ac angenrheidiol i liniaru effaith yr argyfwng hinsawdd, oherwydd y nwyon tŷ gwydr y mae'n eu cynnwys, yn ogystal â'r allyriadau sy'n cael eu rhyddhau o ganlyniad i'r niwed amgylcheddol y mae'n ei achosi, ac fel y nododd Jane Dodds, mae angen dull gweithredu tîm Cymru er mwyn i hyn weithio. Llygredd amaethyddol yw prif ffynhonnell llygredd amonia niweidiol, sy'n gallu amharu ar ddatblygiad ysgyfaint plant a lefelau clefyd y galon, yn ogystal â chadwraeth coetiroedd hynafol.

Cododd cryn dipyn o Aelodau’r £20 miliwn. Soniodd James Evans am y peth, ac yn amlwg, nid yw'n credu ei fod yn ddigon. Ac fel y dywedodd Llyr, ni chredaf y byddai unrhyw un yn dweud mai dyna fyddai'r swm cyntaf o arian yr ydym wedi'i ddarparu; rydym wedi darparu cyllid sylweddol. Ond gadewch imi ddweud wrthych: nid oes gennyf bot o arian lle gallaf ddod o hyd i £20 miliwn arall, ac mae'n drueni fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi rhoi'r bancwyr yn gyntaf, yn hytrach na'n ffermwyr gweithgar. Gofynnodd Joyce Watson am rywfaint o sicrwydd ynghylch peidio â thalu ffermwyr ddwywaith, ac rwyf bob amser wedi dweud na allem roi arian cyhoeddus i sicrhau bod ffermwyr yn cydymffurfio â’r rheoliadau a oedd eisoes ar waith, felly gallaf roi sicrwydd i chi ynglŷn â hynny.

Soniodd sawl Aelod am y dechnoleg newydd, ac aeth Cefin Campbell a minnau i Gelli Aur i weld sut yr oedd y dechnoleg honno’n dod yn ei blaen, ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn falch iawn o gefnogi hynny. Nid oeddwn wedi bod yno ers rhyw dair blynedd, rwy’n credu, ac roedd yn dda gweld y cynnydd a oedd yn cael ei wneud. Ond rydym yn dal i weld achosion o lygredd amaethyddol a gadarnheir bob mis yn cyrraedd ffigurau dwbl eto eleni, ac mae’n rhaid inni wneud rhywbeth yn awr. Mae llygredd amaethyddol hefyd yn ffynhonnell sylweddol o lygredd ffosffad, sydd ar hyn o bryd yn atal gwaith datblygu tai a seilwaith allweddol arall y gwyddom fod ei angen ar frys i wella bywydau pob cymuned yng Nghymru. Felly, rwy'n croesawu'r cyfle yn y ddadl hon i danlinellu fy ymrwymiad i gamau gweithredu ar yr hinsawdd, i aer glân, i ansawdd dŵr ac i atal a gwrthdroi’r dirywiad mewn bioamrywiaeth, a gwn fod ffermwyr—y rhan fwyaf ohonynt—yn rhannu’r pethau hynny hefyd. A bydd unrhyw benderfyniad a wnaf yn anrhydeddu ac yn datblygu'r ymrwymiadau hynny, a gadewch imi atgoffa pawb, mae'r ymrwymiadau hyn wedi'u hymgorffori yn y gyfraith. Maent yn adlewyrchiad o'n cyfrifoldeb moesol i drosglwyddo treftadaeth naturiol Cymru i’r genhedlaeth nesaf mewn gwell cyflwr nag y'i cawsom.

Wrth drafod ein rhwymedigaethau amgylcheddol, yn anffodus, mae angen tynnu sylw at y ffaith bod Llywodraeth Geidwadol y DU wedi nodi ei bwriad i ddiddymu holl gyfreithiau'r UE a ddargedwir, ac mae hynny’n cynnwys mesurau diogelu amgylcheddol hanfodol. Felly, credaf fod hwn yn bolisi hynod annoeth a fydd yn achosi, ar y gorau—[Torri ar draws.]. Iawn.

15:55

I'm giving the Minister the opportunity to reflect on the comments made this week by the former long-serving agricultural Minister in DEFRA, George Eustice, who himself has laid into—has lain waste to—the proposals that are now coming out of the UK Government, on the back of the work that has been put in, and the work that has been put in with farmers, to actually drive greater levels of environmental stewardship. He now says that that is being thrown out of the window—thrown under the bus—by the UK Government.

Rwy’n rhoi cyfle i’r Gweinidog fyfyrio ar y sylwadau a wnaed yr wythnos hon gan y cyn-Weinidog amaethyddol a fu wrthi ers amser maith yn DEFRA, George Eustice, sydd wedi gwawdio'r cynigion sydd bellach yn dod gan Lywodraeth y DU, yn dilyn y gwaith a wnaed, a’r gwaith a wnaed gyda ffermwyr, ar ysgogi lefelau uwch o stiwardiaeth amgylcheddol. Dywed bellach fod y gwaith hwnnw'n cael ei daflu allan—yn cael ei daflu o dan y bws—gan Lywodraeth y DU.

I think that we can see why George Eustice is no longer the Secretary of State in DEFRA.

However, this Welsh Labour Government remains committed to upholding and keeping pace with EU environmental standards. I will resist and, where possible, prevent any changes made by the Conservatives in Westminster from undermining those standards, and that includes as they are reflected in the agricultural pollution regulations. While the committee report was published before the UK Government’s policy was announced, I am sure that the committee would agree that no undermining of EU environmental standards should be allowed in Wales.

A couple of Members raised issues around actions that farmers had already taken in relation to the new regulations. I think that it’s fair to say that some farmers have taken action already, and I think that they will have delivered benefits both for their businesses and for the environment. I think that many farmers did make efforts to do so in advance of the prospect of the 2021 regulations, because of the benefits that they could see for their business.

I very much welcome the fact that the committee and other Senedd Members will continue to take an interest in this area. I continue to believe that the best future for Welsh farming is a future in which we keep farmers on the land, supporting them to produce food in a way that is sustainable for the environment and for their business. And in the week that, for the very first time for generations, Welsh lamb is being exported to North America, we can be sure that maintaining high standards will continue to be critical to our success. Am I able to take an intervention?  

Credaf y gallwn weld pam nad yw George Eustice yn Ysgrifennydd Gwladol yn DEFRA mwyach.

Fodd bynnag, mae Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru yn parhau i fod yn ymrwymedig i gynnal a chadw at safonau amgylcheddol yr UE. Byddaf yn gwrthsefyll, a lle bo modd, yn atal unrhyw newidiadau a wneir gan y Ceidwadwyr yn San Steffan rhag tanseilio’r safonau hynny, ac mae hynny’n cynnwys fel y’u hadlewyrchir yn y rheoliadau llygredd amaethyddol. Er bod adroddiad y pwyllgor wedi’i gyhoeddi cyn i bolisi Llywodraeth y DU gael ei gyhoeddi, rwy’n siŵr y byddai’r pwyllgor yn cytuno na ddylid caniatáu i unrhyw un o safonau amgylcheddol yr UE gael eu tanseilio yng Nghymru.

Cododd cwpl o Aelodau faterion sy'n ymwneud â chamau yr oedd ffermwyr eisoes wedi’u cymryd mewn perthynas â’r rheoliadau newydd. Credaf ei bod yn deg dweud bod rhai ffermwyr wedi gweithredu eisoes, a chredaf y byddant wedi sicrhau manteision i’w busnesau ac i’r amgylchedd. Credaf fod llawer o ffermwyr wedi gwneud ymdrech i wneud hynny cyn i reoliadau 2021 gael eu rhoi ar y gweill, oherwydd y manteision y gallent eu gweld i’w busnes.

Rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith y bydd y pwyllgor ac Aelodau eraill o’r Senedd yn parhau i ddangos diddordeb yn y maes hwn. Rwy’n parhau i gredu mai’r dyfodol gorau i ffermio yng Nghymru yw dyfodol lle rydym yn cadw ffermwyr ar y tir, gan eu cynorthwyo i gynhyrchu bwyd mewn ffordd sy’n gynaliadwy i’r amgylchedd ac i’w busnes. Ac yn yr wythnos y mae cig oen Cymru, am y tro cyntaf ers cenedlaethau, yn cael ei allforio i Ogledd America, gallwn fod yn sicr y bydd cynnal safonau uchel yn parhau i fod yn hollbwysig i’n llwyddiant. A gaf fi dderbyn ymyriad?

Sorry, I just suspected that you were winding up. You haven't addressed the closed periods, which have been raised by about three or four different speakers.

Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, roeddwn yn meddwl eich bod yn dirwyn i ben. Nid ydych wedi rhoi sylw i’r cyfnodau gwaharddedig, sydd wedi’u codi gan dri neu bedwar o siaradwyr gwahanol.

I wasn't winding up, actually. I was just seeing the time. Just in relation to closed periods, if I can answer Llyr: you are quite right, it was something that I really did grapple with for a long time. One of the things that persuaded me was around the crop need and the nutrient applications that need to be made. It's really interesting that not one member, in any of their responses, mentioned crop requirements or crop needs.

So, just to make it shorter: I know that applying slurry—. The crop growth and the nutrient requirements in winter may increase due to soil temperature increases, but one of the factors for me was that sunlight hours don't change very much. So, that was the reason why I was persuaded in the end. That was one of the main reasons, but there were quite a few reasons. But it was something—you are absolutely right—that I did sort of grapple with.

In conclusion, I do remain committed to working with Members of the Senedd, and with all of our Welsh stakeholders, as we continue to bear down on the levels of agricultural pollution that present such a clear threat to the natural environment. Diolch. 

Nid oeddwn yn dirwyn i ben, a dweud y gwir. Roeddwn yn edrych ar yr amser. Ar y cyfnodau gwaharddedig, os caf ateb Llyr: rydych yn llygad eich lle, roedd yn rhywbeth y bûm yn ymrafael ag ef am amser maith. Un o'r pethau a'm perswadiodd oedd anghenion y cnwd a'r maethynnau y mae angen eu rhoi ar y tir. Mae'n ddiddorol iawn na soniodd unrhyw Aelod, yn unrhyw un o'u hymatebion, am ofynion y cnwd nac am anghenion y cnwd.

Felly, yn fyr: gwn fod gwasgaru slyri—. Efallai y bydd twf y cnwd a’r angen am faethynnau yn y gaeaf yn cynyddu oherwydd cynnydd yn nhymheredd y pridd, ond un o’r ffactorau i mi oedd nad yw'r oriau o olau'r haul yn newid rhyw lawer. Felly, dyna'r rheswm pam y cefais fy mherswadio yn y pen draw. Dyna un o'r prif resymau, ond roedd cryn dipyn o resymau. Ond roedd yn rhywbeth—rydych yn llygad eich lle—y bûm yn rhyw lun o ymrafael ag ef.

I gloi, rwy’n parhau i fod yn ymrwymedig i weithio gydag Aelodau’r Senedd, a chyda phob un o’n rhanddeiliaid yng Nghymru, wrth inni barhau i leihau lefelau llygredd amaethyddol, sy’n fygythiad mor amlwg i’r amgylchedd naturiol. Diolch.

Paul Davies, Cadeirydd y pwyllgor, i ymateb i'r ddadl.

Paul Davies, Chair of the committee, to reply to the debate. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Can I thank Members for contributing to this debate this afternoon? There is no mistaking just how important these regulations are, and how important it is that we set the correct balance between protecting the environment and supporting our farmers to produce the food that our nation needs.

We've heard very insightful and, indeed, passionate contributions this afternoon, and I'm sure that Members will understand that I won't be able to respond to each and every one. But I am grateful to the Member for Caerphilly for raising the timescales that the Welsh has had to respond to our report, and I very much agree with him: it was important that the Government took time to consider our report in detail. The only point that I would make regarding the timescales is that the reporting deadline was breached, because the deadline was on 14 September, and the report was actually laid on 8 June. It would have been, perhaps, helpful if the Government had just kept the committee updated on when it intended to respond to the report, but I am grateful to the Minister that she has also written to me again today on that point.

Diolch, Lywydd. A gaf fi ddiolch i’r Aelodau am gyfrannu at y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma? Nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth ynglŷn â pha mor bwysig yw’r rheoliadau hyn, a pha mor bwysig yw hi ein bod yn sicrhau'r cydbwysedd cywir rhwng diogelu’r amgylchedd a chefnogi ein ffermwyr i gynhyrchu’r bwyd sydd ei angen ar ein gwlad.

Rydym wedi clywed cyfraniadau craff iawn, ac angerddol iawn yn wir y prynhawn yma, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd yr Aelodau'n deall na fyddaf yn gallu ymateb i bob un. Ond rwy’n ddiolchgar i’r Aelod dros Gaerffili am godi’r amserlenni y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi’u cael i ymateb i’n hadroddiad, ac rwy’n cytuno’n fawr ag ef: roedd yn bwysig fod y Llywodraeth yn rhoi amser i ystyried ein hadroddiad yn fanwl. Yr unig bwynt y byddwn yn ei wneud ynghylch yr amserlenni yw eu bod wedi mynd dros y terfyn amser, gan mai'r terfyn amser oedd 14 Medi, a gosodwyd yr adroddiad ar 8 Mehefin mewn gwirionedd. Byddai wedi bod yn ddefnyddiol, efallai, pe bai’r Llywodraeth wedi dweud wrth y pwyllgor pa bryd y bwriadai ymateb i’r adroddiad, ond rwy’n ddiolchgar i’r Gweinidog am ysgrifennu ataf eto heddiw ar y pwynt hwnnw.

16:00

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (David Rees) i’r Gadair.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.

Now, Members such as the Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire and the Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd have raised the impact of implementing these regulations on farmers, in particular the financial costs. The committee understands that these regulations will have a huge impact on Welsh farming and that they could seriously threaten the sustainability of many farms. For that reason, we recommended that the Welsh Government set out exactly what support will be made available to farmers to meet the water quality and other various requirements of the regulations. This should, of course, include the amounts, the funding delivery mechanisms and indeed the timescales.

Members such as Jane Dodds and Llyr Gruffydd have also raised the use of technology this afternoon, and, as I said earlier, the committee received strong evidence about the use of technology to facilitate greater flexibility in when farmers could spread slurry. Now, the Minister made it very clear to the committee that the Welsh Government is open to considering alternative measures and technology, and I welcome that commitment. But I hope that, as Llyr Gruffydd said, the Government will look at technological alternatives in the near future, not just in the next few years.

More generally as a committee we look forward to receiving further information on the implementation of these regulations. We are particularly keen to learn more about the preparations for Natural Resources Wales to be in a position to adequately and fairly enforce these regulations. We’re also keen to see a detailed breakdown of support for farmers to comply with these regulations, and we’d also like to receive more information about the Welsh Government’s proposed licensing system for farms that need to use higher nitrogen. I know that the Minister said that this consultation will now take place, and I look forward to that consultation.

As I said in opening this debate, I believe stepping away from farming by calendar and introducing a technology-based approach to spreading is vital for Welsh farming. I’ve heard what the Minister has said this afternoon, but I do hope that this is a core feature of the planned review of these regulations, a review that I expect committee members will also be keen to be involved in.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I’d like to finish this debate by thanking everyone who gave evidence to the committee. The only way of ensuring these regulations strike the right balance is by rooting them in evidence, and that’s the same for the committee’s report. I believe our report and the recommendations in it are based on a high level of good quality evidence. Therefore, in closing, can I thank Members and the Minister for their contributions today, and say that the committee looks forward to being updated on the progress of the implementation of our recommendations in due course? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Nawr, mae Aelodau fel yr Aelod dros Orllewin Caerfyrddin a De Sir Benfro, a'r Aelod dros Ddwyfor Meirionnydd wedi codi effaith gweithredu'r rheoliadau hyn ar ffermwyr, yn enwedig y costau ariannol. Mae'r pwyllgor yn deall y bydd y rheoliadau hyn yn cael effaith enfawr ar ffermio yng Nghymru ac y gallent fygwth cynaliadwyedd llawer o ffermydd yn ddifrifol. Am y rheswm hwnnw, fe wnaethom argymell bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn nodi'n union pa gymorth fydd ar gael i ffermwyr i ateb y gofynion ansawdd dŵr a gofynion amrywiol eraill y rheoliadau. Dylai hyn, wrth gwrs, gynnwys y symiau, y mecanweithiau darparu cyllid ac yn wir yr amserlenni.

Mae Aelodau megis Jane Dodds a Llyr Gruffydd hefyd wedi codi'r defnydd o dechnoleg y prynhawn yma, ac fel y dywedais yn gynharach, clywodd y pwyllgor dystiolaeth gref mewn perthynas â'r defnydd o dechnoleg i hwyluso mwy o hyblygrwydd ynghylch pryd y gallai ffermwyr wasgaru slyri. Nawr, mae'r Gweinidog wedi dweud yn glir iawn wrth y pwyllgor fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn agored i ystyried technoleg a mesurau amgen, ac rwy'n croesawu'r ymrwymiad hwnnw. Ond fel y dywedodd Llyr Gruffydd, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y Llywodraeth yn edrych ar ddewisiadau technolegol amgen yn y dyfodol agos, ac nid yn y blynyddoedd nesaf yn unig.

Yn fwy cyffredinol, fel pwyllgor, rydym yn edrych ymlaen at gael rhagor o wybodaeth am weithredu'r rheoliadau hyn. Rydym yn arbennig o awyddus i ddysgu mwy am y paratoadau i Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru fod mewn sefyllfa i orfodi'r rheoliadau hyn yn ddigonol ac yn deg. Rydym hefyd yn awyddus i weld dadansoddiad manwl o gymorth i ffermwyr gydymffurfio â'r rheoliadau hyn, a byddem hefyd yn hoffi cael mwy o wybodaeth am system drwyddedu arfaethedig Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer ffermydd sydd angen defnyddio lefel uwch o nitrogen. Gwn fod y Gweinidog wedi dweud y bydd yr ymgynghoriad hwn yn digwydd, ac rwy'n edrych ymlaen at yr ymgynghoriad hwnnw.

Fel y dywedais wrth agor y ddadl hon, rwy'n credu bod symud o ffermio yn ôl y calendr a chyflwyno dull o wasgaru sy'n seiliedig ar dechnoleg yn hanfodol i ffermio yng Nghymru. Rwyf wedi clywed yr hyn y mae'r Gweinidog wedi ei ddweud y prynhawn yma, ond rwy'n gobeithio bod hon yn nodwedd greiddiol o'r adolygiad arfaethedig o'r rheoliadau hyn, adolygiad yr wyf yn disgwyl y bydd Aelodau'r pwyllgor hefyd yn awyddus i fod yn rhan ohono.

Ddirprwy Lywydd, hoffwn gloi'r ddadl hon drwy ddiolch i bawb a gyflwynodd dystiolaeth i'r pwyllgor. Yr unig ffordd o sicrhau bod y rheoliadau hyn yn taro'r cydbwysedd cywir yw drwy eu gwreiddio mewn tystiolaeth, ac mae hynny hefyd yn wir ar gyfer adroddiad y pwyllgor. Credaf fod ein hadroddiad a'r argymhellion ynddo yn seiliedig ar lefel uchel o dystiolaeth o ansawdd da. Felly, i gloi, a gaf fi ddiolch i'r Aelodau a'r Gweinidog am eu cyfraniadau heddiw, a dweud bod y pwyllgor yn edrych ymlaen at gael diweddariad ar gynnydd gweithrediad ein hargymhellion maes o law? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Ni welaf unrhyw wrthwynebiad. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

The proposal is to note the committee’s report. Does any Member object? I don’t see any objections. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

6. Dadl ar Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol: Rhyddhau cleifion o ysbytai ac effaith hynny ar y llif cleifion drwy ysbytai
6. Debate on the Health and Social Care Committee Report: Hospital discharge and its impact on patient flow through hospitals

Eitem 6 y prynhawn yma yw’r ddadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol, ‘Rhyddhau cleifion o ysbytai ac effaith hynny ar y llif cleifion drwy ysbytai’. Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i wneud y cynnig. Russell George.

Item 6 this afternoon is the debate on the Health and Social Care Committee’s report, ‘Hospital discharge and its impact on patient flow through hospitals’. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion. Russell George.

Cynnig NDM8089 Russell George

Cynnig bod y Senedd:

Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol ‘Rhyddhau cleifion o ysbytai ac effaith hynny ar y llif cleifion drwy ysbytai’, a osodwyd ar 15 Mehefin 2022.

Motion NDM8089 Russell George

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the Health and Social Care Committee report ‘Hospital discharge and its impact on patient flow through hospitals’, laid on 15 June 2022.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. I’m pleased to open this second committee report debate this afternoon, this debate on the Health and Social Care Committee’s report on ‘Hospital discharge and its impact on patient flow through hospitals’. I’m happy to move the motion tabled in my name.

Our report made 25 recommendations and I was very pleased that the Welsh Government accepted 20 in full. Of the five that were accepted in principle, it is disappointing that a number of those recommendations were aimed at improving dementia care. Our recommendation 19 called on the Government to mandate further dementia training for NHS staff who may come into contact with people living with dementia. We made this recommendation because witnesses told us that there was a lack of understanding of the needs of people with dementia in hospitals and how best to support them in their situation in a less frightening way for themselves.

So, our recommendation 20 asked the Welsh Government to work with health boards to set up pilot schemes to trial set discharge slots for people with dementia. This would ensure that vulnerable people are not being discharged from hospital late at night when there is limited access to transport, and when they may be going home, perhaps, to a cold house, or at a time, of course, that causes distress by disrupting family routines.

It is clear from the evidence that we received that issues raised around delayed transfers of care were, of course, no doubt exacerbated by the pandemic—that's, of course, accepted—but also recognising that there are long-standing problems that existed well before COVID-19. It is, however, totally unacceptable that there are more than 1,000 people in hospital beds when they could have been discharged.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n falch o agor yr ail ddadl ar adroddiad pwyllgor y prynhawn yma, y ddadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol 'Rhyddhau cleifion o ysbytai ac effaith hynny ar y llif cleifion drwy ysbytai'. Rwy'n hapus i wneud y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn fy enw.

Fe wnaeth ein hadroddiad 25 o argymhellion ac roeddwn yn falch iawn fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn 20 yn llawn. O'r pump a dderbyniwyd mewn egwyddor, mae'n siomedig fod nifer o'r argymhellion hynny wedi'u hanelu at wella gofal dementia. Roedd argymhelliad 19 yn galw ar y Llywodraeth i fandadu hyfforddiant dementia pellach ar gyfer staff y GIG a allai ddod i gysylltiad â phobl sy'n byw gyda dementia. Gwnaethom yr argymhelliad hwn oherwydd bod tystion wedi dweud wrthym fod yna ddiffyg dealltwriaeth o anghenion pobl â dementia mewn ysbytai a sut y gellid eu cefnogi yn eu sefyllfa mewn ffordd sy'n llai brawychus iddynt hwy eu hunain.

Felly, roedd argymhelliad 20 yn gofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru weithio gyda byrddau iechyd i sefydlu cynlluniau peilot i dreialu slotiau rhyddhau penodol ar gyfer pobl â dementia. Byddai hyn yn sicrhau nad yw pobl agored i niwed yn cael eu rhyddhau o'r ysbyty yn hwyr yn y nos pan fo mynediad cyfyngedig at drafnidiaeth, a phan fyddant o bosibl yn mynd adref, efallai, i dŷ oer, neu ar adeg sy'n achosi gofid drwy amharu ar arferion teuluol.

Mae'n amlwg o'r dystiolaeth a gawsom fod materion a godwyd ynghylch oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal heb amheuaeth wedi cael eu gwaethygu gan y pandemig—mae hynny, wrth gwrs, yn cael ei dderbyn—ond gan gydnabod bod problemau hirsefydlog a oedd yn bodoli ymhell cyn COVID-19. Fodd bynnag, mae'n gwbl annerbyniol fod mwy na 1,000 o bobl mewn gwelyau ysbyty pan allent fod wedi cael eu rhyddhau.

And let's just remember as well that delayed transfers of care are not just statistics. Behind every delayed transfer, there is a person who has not received the care and support they need to be able to return home or to move into appropriate accommodation. It also affects family members and unpaid carers, who find themselves in the impossible position of leaving their loved ones in hospital longer than is necessary or taking on further caring responsibilities that they may not be able to cope with, often at a cost to their own health or well-being. And the financial implications, of course, with that as well also can be significant, especially in the context of rising costs of living.

We’ve all seen pictures of ambulances queuing outside A&E departments unable to hand over patients. This inevitably affects the number of ambulances available to respond to emergency calls, leading to the unacceptable long waits for people who are ill or injured and in pain, and in some cases, sadly, with life-threatening consequences. But at the heart of this issue is the severe lack of capacity in our social care system. Patients who may be ready to leave hospital are unable to do so because there isn’t enough capacity in the care services to put in place homecare packages that would enable safe discharge. This lack of capacity, coupled with the social care workforce crisis that we have, continues to be one of the main causes of delayed hospital discharge and restricted patient flow through hospitals.

Now, unlike the NHS, which I'm sure everyone will have accessed at some point in their lives, the social care sector is largely invisible except to those who need its support; to them it's invaluable. Unless radical steps are taken to reform the way in which social care is provided, rewarded and paid for, we are unlikely to see any real change. Social care providers told us that these are unprecedented times in terms of staffing shortages. People are leaving the sector because they can earn similar amounts elsewhere for doing less pressured jobs. Until there is true parity in pay and terms and conditions for social care staff with their NHS counterparts, I think the sector will continue to struggle to recruit and retain staff.

So, it was disappointing that the Welsh Government’s response to our request for information on how it will increase recruitment to the social care sector was less than robust. While it repeated what has been done to date, it provided no real clarity or assurance on plans for the future, so I do hope perhaps the Minister could provide that detail this afternoon. It would also be helpful if the Minister could provide an update on the work of the social care fair work forum in developing a pay and progression framework for social care workers, and assurances that this work is being taken forward with the urgency it needs.

A very strong theme that we received was concern about the pressure being placed on family and unpaid carers to fill the gaps in care provision. I was pleased that the Welsh Government accepted our recommendation to undertake a rapid review of whether carers’ rights under the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 are being breached as a result of having to take on more caring responsibilities than they may be willing or able to, due to the lack of available services. And I welcome also the priority being given to unpaid carers by the chief social care officer for Wales in his forward work plan.

The involvement of patients and carers is central to the discharge process, and we heard from families and unpaid carers that, in many cases, this is sadly lacking. I'd like to point out or mention Angela Davies, an unpaid carer whose father had dementia, who told us about the difficulties she experienced. We also heard from other stakeholders, like Care Inspectorate Wales, about the quality of patients' needs assessments in hospitals. We heard about assessments being filled out by ward staff or social care staff with no involvement of the patient or people who know them best.

The Minister herself told us that there was room for improvement in communication with carers and families in hospital, so I welcome the acceptance of recommendation 24 and the commitment to commission a review of the quality and effectiveness of carers’ needs assessments in this financial year. I do wonder: is the Minister able to confirm whether the quality and effectiveness of patients' needs assessments in hospitals will also be reviewed?

Finally, I do want to move on to talk about the lack of consistent communication and joined-up working between health, social care and third sector bodies, which is all the more concerning because it’s an issue that has been consistently raised by other Senedd committees. Indeed, our recent report on the impact of the waiting times backlog on people in Wales found that progress needs to be made on digital records and information sharing, so that patients can receive seamless services from all parts of the health and social care system, and on the compatibility between ICT systems used in different parts of the health and social care services. Witnesses told us that clear and consistent communication between hospital-based medical professionals and primary care is invaluable, and unhelpful distinctions between clinical and non-clinical staff need to be removed if patients are to benefit from an integrated health and social care workforce.

The general data protection regulation is often cited as an obstacle to data sharing, however we were told that it is possible to have memorandums of understanding amongst statutory organisations and information governance protocols that would allow a truly shared electronic record.

I do look forward to Members' contributions this afternoon. Finally, I would have to say, Minister, that we were astonished to hear that, in 2022, not only are fax machines still being used by the NHS, new ones are actually being bought. I look forward to contributions this afternoon.

A gadewch i ni gofio hefyd nad ystadegau yn unig yw achosion o oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal. Y tu ôl i bob achos o oedi wrth drosglwyddo, mae yna unigolyn nad yw wedi cael y gofal a'r cymorth y maent ei angen i allu dychwelyd adref neu i symud i lety priodol. Mae hefyd yn effeithio ar aelodau teuluol a gofalwyr di-dâl, sydd yn y sefyllfa amhosibl o adael eu hanwyliaid yn yr ysbyty yn hwy na'r hyn sy'n angenrheidiol neu ymgymryd â chyfrifoldebau gofalu pellach nad ydynt yn gallu ymdopi â hwy o bosibl, a hynny'n aml ar gost i'w hiechyd neu eu llesiant eu hunain. Ac mae'r goblygiadau ariannol hefyd yn gallu bod yn sylweddol gyda hynny, yn enwedig yng nghyd-destun costau byw cynyddol.

Rydym i gyd wedi gweld lluniau o ambiwlansys yn ciwio tu allan i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn methu trosglwyddo cleifion. Mae hyn yn anochel yn effeithio ar nifer yr ambiwlansys sydd ar gael i ymateb i alwadau brys, gan arwain at yr arosiadau annerbyniol o hir i bobl sy'n sâl neu sydd wedi eu hanafu ac mewn poen, ac mewn rhai achosion, yn anffodus, gyda chanlyniadau sy'n peryglu bywyd. Ond wrth wraidd y mater mae diffyg capasiti difrifol yn ein system gofal cymdeithasol. Nid yw cleifion a allai fod yn barod i adael yr ysbyty yn gallu gwneud hynny oherwydd nad oes digon o gapasiti yn y gwasanaethau gofal i roi pecynnau gofal cartref ar waith a fyddai'n eu galluogi i ryddhau cleifion yn ddiogel. Mae'r diffyg capasiti hwn, ynghyd â'r argyfwng gweithlu gofal cymdeithasol sydd gennym, yn parhau i fod yn un o'r prif resymau pam fod oedi cyn rhyddhau cleifion o'r ysbyty a pham fod llif cleifion drwy ysbytai wedi'i gyfyngu.

Nawr, yn wahanol i'r GIG, y bydd pawb wedi manteisio arno ar ryw adeg yn eu bywydau rwy'n siŵr, mae'r sector gofal cymdeithasol yn anweledig i raddau helaeth ac eithrio i'r rhai sydd angen ei gymorth; mae'n amhrisiadwy iddynt hwy. Oni bai bod camau radical yn cael eu cymryd i ddiwygio'r ffordd y caiff gofal cymdeithasol ei ddarparu a'i wobrwyo a sut y telir amdano, rydym yn annhebygol o weld unrhyw newid gwirioneddol. Dywedodd darparwyr gofal cymdeithasol wrthym fod hwn yn gyfnod digynsail o ran prinder staff. Mae pobl yn gadael y sector oherwydd eu bod yn gallu ennill arian tebyg mewn mannau eraill am wneud swyddi sy'n rhoi llai o bwysau arnynt. Hyd nes y ceir cydraddoldeb rhwng cyflogau a thelerau ac amodau staff gofal cymdeithasol a'u cymheiriaid yn y GIG, rwy'n credu y bydd y sector yn parhau i gael trafferth recriwtio a chadw staff.

Felly, roedd yn siomedig fod ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i'n cais am wybodaeth ynglŷn â sut y bydd yn cynyddu recriwtio i'r sector gofal cymdeithasol yn llai na chadarn. Er iddo ailadrodd yr hyn a wnaed hyd yma, ni ddarparodd unrhyw eglurder na sicrwydd gwirioneddol ynghylch cynlluniau ar gyfer y dyfodol, felly rwy'n gobeithio efallai y gallai'r Gweinidog ddarparu'r manylion hynny y prynhawn yma. Byddai'n ddefnyddiol hefyd pe gallai'r Gweinidog roi diweddariad ar waith y fforwm gwaith teg gofal cymdeithasol ar ddatblygu fframwaith cyflog a chynnydd ar gyfer gweithwyr gofal cymdeithasol, a rhoi sicrwydd bod y gwaith hwn yn cael ei ddatblygu gyda'r brys angenrheidiol.

Un thema gref iawn a welsom oedd pryder am y pwysau a osodir ar deulu a gofalwyr di-dâl i lenwi'r bylchau yn y ddarpariaeth gofal. Roeddwn yn falch fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn ein hargymhelliad i gynnal adolygiad cyflym i weld a yw hawliau gofalwyr dan Ddeddf Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a Llesiant (Cymru) 2014 yn cael eu torri o ganlyniad i orfod ysgwyddo mwy o gyfrifoldebau gofalu nag y maent yn gallu neu'n barod i'w wneud am nad oes digon o wasanaethau ar gael. Ac rwyf hefyd yn croesawu'r flaenoriaeth y mae prif swyddog gofal cymdeithasol Cymru wedi ei rhoi i ofalwyr di-dâl yn ei flaengynllun gwaith.

Mae cynnwys cleifion a gofalwyr yn ganolog i'r broses o ryddhau cleifion, ac fe glywsom gan deuluoedd a gofalwyr di-dâl fod hyn wedi'i golli mewn sawl achos, yn anffodus. Hoffwn nodi neu sôn am Angela Davies, gofalwr di-dâl i'w thad a oedd â dementia, a ddywedodd wrthym am y trafferthion a brofodd. Clywsom hefyd gan randdeiliaid eraill, fel Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru, am ansawdd asesiadau o anghenion cleifion mewn ysbytai. Clywsom am asesiadau'n cael eu llenwi gan staff y ward neu staff gofal cymdeithasol heb gynnwys y claf na'r bobl sy'n eu hadnabod orau.

Dywedodd y Gweinidog ei hun bod lle i wella cyfathrebu â gofalwyr a theuluoedd yn yr ysbyty, felly rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith bod y Llywodraeth wedi derbyn argymhelliad 24 a'r ymrwymiad i gomisiynu adolygiad o ansawdd ac effeithiolrwydd asesiadau o anghenion gofalwyr yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon. Rwy'n meddwl tybed a all y Gweinidog gadarnhau y bydd ansawdd ac effeithiolrwydd asesiadau o anghenion cleifion mewn ysbytai hefyd yn cael eu hadolygu?

Yn olaf, rwyf am symud ymlaen i siarad am y diffyg cyfathrebu cyson a gweithio cydgysylltiedig rhwng cyrff iechyd, gofal cymdeithasol a chyrff y trydydd sector, sy'n peri mwy o bryder oherwydd ei fod yn fater sydd wedi'i godi'n gyson gan bwyllgorau eraill y Senedd. Yn wir, yn ôl ein hadroddiad diweddar ar effaith yr ôl-groniad amseroedd aros ar bobl yng Nghymru, mae angen gwneud cynnydd mewn perthynas â chofnodion digidol a rhannu gwybodaeth, er mwyn i gleifion allu cael gwasanaethau di-dor o bob rhan o'r system iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, ac mewn perthynas â chydweddoldeb rhwng systemau TGCh a ddefnyddir mewn gwahanol rannau o'r gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Dywedodd tystion wrthym fod cyfathrebu clir a chyson rhwng gweithwyr proffesiynol meddygol yn yr ysbyty a gofal sylfaenol yn amhrisiadwy, ac mae angen cael gwared ar wahaniaethu di-fudd rhwng staff clinigol a staff anghlinigol os yw cleifion am elwa o weithlu iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol integredig.

Cyfeirir yn aml at y rheoliad diogelu data cyffredinol fel rhwystr i rannu data, ond dywedwyd wrthym ei bod yn bosibl cael memoranda cyd-ddealltwriaeth rhwng sefydliadau statudol a phrotocolau llywodraethu gwybodaeth a fyddai'n caniatáu cofnod electronig wedi'i rannu'n llawn.

Rwy'n edrych ymlaen at gyfraniadau'r Aelodau y prynhawn yma. Yn olaf, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, Weinidog, ein bod wedi cael syndod wrth glywed nid yn unig fod peiriannau ffacs yn dal i gael eu defnyddio gan y GIG yn 2022, ond bod rhai newydd yn dal i gael eu prynu. Edrychaf ymlaen at y cyfraniadau y prynhawn yma.

16:10

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd. Diolch i fy nghyd-aelodau o'r pwyllgor, a diolch i'r ymchwilwyr a'r tîm clercio. Mae hwn yn adroddiad pwysig iawn. Rydym ni'n cael at wraidd y materion sy'n dal ein gwasanaeth iechyd ni yn ôl ar hyn o bryd.

Rydym ni'n sôn am lif cleifion drwy'r system iechyd. Os nad oes yna lif rhwydd drwy'r system, mae gennych chi broblem. Dechreuwn ni wrth ddrws cefn ysbyty, pan fo claf yn barod i adael yr ysbyty cyffredinol ar ôl derbyn triniaeth. Dwi wedi eistedd mewn huddles yn Ysbyty Gwynedd ddwywaith—y cyfarfodydd boreol lle mae staff yn dod at ei gilydd i asesu lle maen nhw arni ar ddechrau diwrnod prysur arall—un o'r ystadegau sy'n cael eu trafod ydy faint o gleifion sy'n barod i adael ar sail meddygol, medically fit for discharge. Mae'n drawiadol i ffeindio bod efallai 80 neu'n fwy o welyau yn yr ysbyty yn cael eu defnyddio gan gleifion sydd ddim angen bod yno. Ac mae'r un yn wir mewn ysbytai cyffredinol ar draws Cymru. Mae hynny'n golygu problem wrth y drws ffrynt: canslo triniaethau achos does yna ddim gwely ar gael, efallai, a rhestrau aros hirach wedyn; mae'n golygu bod cleifion sy'n cyrraedd drwy'r adran frys yn methu symud o'r adran frys i'r ward os oes angen—mae'r ward yn llawn. Mae'r adran frys yn llawn, sy'n golygu bod ambiwlans yn methu dadlwytho claf, yn ciwio tu allan i'r ysbyty, yn methu ag ateb galwadau. Mae o'n gylch dieflig, a thrwy ein gwaith ni fel pwyllgor, wrth gwrs, mi oeddem ni'n trio deall pam mae'r bloc yma wrth y drws cefn, yr oedi wrth ryddhau cleifion, yn digwydd.

Mae'r sylw, yn gyffredinol, mewn blynyddoedd diweddar, wedi troi at wasanaethau gofal. Mae yna argymhellion cadarn yn yr adroddiad yma i'r perwyl yma: sut i sicrhau bod yr NHS ac adrannau gwasanaethau cymdeithasol cynghorau sir yn gweithio'n well efo'i gilydd i integreiddio iechyd a gofal; sut i sicrhau bod arian integreiddio yn cael ei wario'n effeithiol; a sut i gefnogi staff gofal, eu talu nhw'n iawn, a'u cefnogi nhw'n iawn fel ein bod ni’n gallu recriwtio. Gwnaf i ddim mynd i mewn i fanylion hynny; maen nhw’n argymhellion cynhwysfawr. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru, fel rydym ni wedi ei glywed gan y Cadeirydd, yn cytuno â'r mwyafrif helaeth ohonyn nhw. Mater i ni fydd dal y Llywodraeth i gyfrif a sgrwtineiddio cynnydd.

Mae pump o'r argymhellion sydd ddim ond yn cael eu derbyn mewn egwyddor, a dwi am droi at un o'r rheini, sef argymhelliad 8:

'Dylai Llywodraeth Cymru nodi sut y bydd yn gweithio gyda byrddau iechyd a phartneriaid eraill i sicrhau bod mwy o gyfleusterau cam-i-fyny/cam-i-lawr mwy priodol ar gael ledled Cymru.'

Mae diffyg darpariaeth cam i lawr yn broblem enfawr. Dydy'r capasiti ddim yno. Ac mae wedi dod yn fwy a mwy clir i fi na allwn ni ddibynnu ar y sector gofal i ddarparu'r capasiti yna ac, a dweud y gwir, nad ydy hi’n deg i ni ofyn iddyn nhw ei ddarparu fo. A dwi’n ofni mai beth rydym ni’n ei weld yn fan hyn ydy canlyniadau degawdau o bolisi gwael. Dwi wedi gweld ffigurau sy’n awgrymu bod gennym ni rhyw 20,000 o welyau ysbyty yng Nghymru ddiwedd y 1980au. Mae yna ystadegau pendant iawn erbyn 1997, pan oedd yna ychydig o dan 16,000. Dipyn dros 10,000 o welyau sydd gennym ni erbyn hyn. Beth rydym ni wedi’i weld ydy rhaglen bwrpasol o gau ysbytai cymunedol, cau gwelyau, lleihau capasiti. A rŵan, ydym ni wir i fod i synnu bod yna broblem capasiti, bod yna lif gwael o gleifion drwy'r system? Mae'r Llywodraeth yn troi at y gwasanaethau gofal, yn dweud bod angen i'r sector hwnnw fod yn derbyn cleifion ynghynt. Mae gen i ofn, fel dwi'n dweud, ein bod ni'n gofyn iddyn nhw wneud rhywbeth sy’n amhosib. Ydy hynny’n tynnu oddi ar argymhellion y pwyllgor? Nac ydy, dydy o ddim, ddim o gwbl. Mae eisiau cryfhau y sector gofal, mae eisiau ei gyllido fo yn iawn ac mae eisiau cefnogi gweithwyr gofal.

Ond drwy gau yr holl welyau, mi oedd Llywodraethau Llafur a Cheidwadol, yn fan hyn ac yn San Steffan, yn helpu i greu y broblem sydd gennym ni heddiw. Mae pobl yn byw yn hirach. Mae mwy o bobl angen triniaeth. A dim ots faint rydym ni’n dymuno, yn hollol, hollol gywir gyda llaw, i bobl allu cael gofal gartref, i fynd gartref mor gyflym â phosibl ar ôl triniaeth ac ati, mae’n synnwyr cyffredin bod yna'n dal fwy o bobl sy’n mynd i fod angen jest ychydig bach o ofal ychwanegol ar ôl triniaeth ysbyty—yr union fath o ofal sy'n gallu cael ei gynnig mewn ysbyty cymunedol. Felly, mi hoffwn i glywed gan y Gweinidog ymrwymiad i raglen newydd o greu y capasiti yna. Mi ddywedith fod yna ddim arian at gael, dwi'n siŵr, ond rydym ni'n sôn yn y fan hyn am welyau sydd gymaint rhatach na gwelyau mewn ysbyty cyffredinol. Rydym ni'n sôn am dynnu'r pwysau oddi ar y pen drud o'r NHS. Gadewch inni weld rhaglen fydd yn creu y capasiti yna, yn hytrach na dim ond gofyn i wasanaethau gofal wneud yr hyn dwi’n ei gredu sy’n amhosib.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. Thank you to my fellow members of the committee, and thank you to the researchers and the clerking team. This is a very important report. We're getting to the heart of issues that are holding our health service back at the moment.

We're talking about patient flow through the health service. If there isn't that easy flow through the system, you have a problem. We'll start at the back door of the hospital, when a patient is ready to leave the general hospital after receiving treatment. I've sat in huddles in Ysbyty Gwynedd twice—the morning meetings where staff come together to assess where they are at the beginning of another busy day—one of the statistics discussed is how many patients are ready to leave on a medical basis, medically fit for discharge. It's striking to find that 80 or more beds in the hospital are being used by patients who don't need to be there. The same is true in general hospitals across Wales. That means a problem at the front door: cancelling treatments because there aren't beds available, perhaps, and longer waiting lists then; it means that patients arriving through the emergency department can't move from the emergency department to the ward if needed, because the ward is full. The emergency department is full, which means that an ambulance can't unload a patient; they're queuing outside the hospital; they can't respond to calls. It's a vicious cycle, isn't it, and through our work as a committee, of course, we tried to understand why this block is happening at the back door, this delay in discharging patients—why that is happening.

Now, the focus in recent years has turned to care services. There are robust recommendations in this report to this end: how to ensure that the NHS and social services departments in local authorities work better together to integrate health and care; how to ensure that integration funding is spent effectively; and how to support care staff, to pay them properly, and to support them so that we can recruit. I won't go into the details of that; they are comprehensive recommendations in the report. The Welsh Government, as we've heard from the Chair, agrees to the vast majority of the recommendations. It's a matter for us to hold the Government to account and to scrutinise progress.

There are five of the recommendations that are only being accepted in principle, and I want to turn to one of those, namely recommendation 8:

'The Welsh Government should set out how it will work with health boards and other partners to increase the availability of more appropriate step-up/step-down facilities across Wales'.

The lack of that step-down provision is a huge problem. The capacity isn't there. It has become increasingly clear to me that we can't depend on the care sector to provide that capacity and that, indeed, it's not fair for us to ask them to provide that capacity. And I'm afraid that what we're seeing here is the result of decades of poor policy. I've seen figures that suggest we had around 20,000 hospital beds in Wales at the end of the 1980s. There are very specific statistics by 1997, where there were just under 16,000. Just over 10,000 beds, that's how many we have now. What we've seen is a purposeful deliberate programme of closing community hospitals, closing beds, decreasing capacity. And now, are we genuinely meant to be surprised that there is a capacity problem, that there's a poor flow of patients through the system? The Government is turning to the care services, and says that that sector needs to be accepting patients more quickly. I'm afraid, as I've said, that we are asking them to do something that is impossible to do. Does that take away from the recommendations of the committee? No, it doesn't, not at all. We need to strengthen the care sector, we do need to fund it properly and we need to support care workers.

But by closing all of those beds, Labour and Conservative Governments, here and in Westminster, were helping to create the problem that we have today. People are living longer. More people need treatment. And no matter how much we would wish, entirely correctly by the way, for people to receive care at home, to go home as soon as possible after receiving treatment and so on, it's common sense that there are still more people who will need just that little bit of additional care after having hospital treatment—exactly the kind of treatment that can be provided in a community hospitals. So, I'd like to hear from the Minister a commitment to a new programme of creating that capacity. She'll say that there's no funding available, I'm sure, but we're talking here about beds that are so much cheaper than beds in general hospitals. We're talking about taking the pressure away from that expensive end of the NHS. Let's create a programme that will generate that capacity, rather than just asking for care services to do what I think is impossible.

16:15

I thank the Chair for chairing the committee in a collegiate manner and for the report that has come out of that. We can't, of course, look at every aspect in this short time of what is creating the problems, but one of the problems in discharging patients at the appropriate time, quite clearly, is staffing. It isn't of any value at all, whatsoever—quite the opposite, really—for patients to be staying in a hospital unnecessarily. So, it isn't conducive to the patient's physical or mental well-being, and neither is it fair on the hospital staff who, despite their very best efforts, won't be able to give the necessary attention that is required in an overly busy ward to somebody, for example, who might be suffering from a condition like dementia. The report does highlight staffing in the social care sector. It's been mentioned already. It does need urgent addressing. And I do know and understand that the Welsh Government is in that space and that they are trying to come to terms with what they're able to do, like the living wage, like extra training, but nonetheless, we cannot move away from the fact that there is a huge shortage of staff within social care, but also within hospitals as well.

And I did mention, just last week, that we need to address why it is that people—and it's mostly women—are moving out of the profession at a certain age, and it's around the age of 40. What is underneath that? Why are they leaving and leaving us with these shortages? Is it because they themselves have become carers, or is it because they've been in a system for 20 years and they completely want out? We don't know the answers, and the Minister said she would seek that, because that will help us, if we know the answers to those questions, in looking at and forward thinking about managing that turnover of staff, and also what we will need to do in terms of the numbers being trained to fill that gap, if we know that that's the age where most people might consider leaving, or alternatively offering them different contracts, more flexible working, part-time working. We talk often here about agency staff, but very often, if you ask somebody why they've gone to an agency, they will tell you it's a lifestyle choice because they can work the hours they want to work, in the places they want to work. So, we need to examine that, because all of this actually plays a part in what we're talking about here. If you haven't got the staff, wherever those staff are missing from, you cannot and will never solve the problems.

I do want to briefly talk about unpaid carers and the need for respite. We know, and there was evidence again about this, that lots of the facilities they relied on are no longer available to them, either, again, due to staffing shortages, lack of funding from the austerity that we've all endured, or whether other facilities are available but not immediately accessible to them. We've heard an awful lot about step-down community beds, and whilst I support the need for those, ultimately people want to go home. If people don't go home, they deteriorate really quickly, and whether they're in a hospital bed or a community bed, that person is still in a bed. They become very confused very quickly. They become dependent very quickly, even though they go in from an independent state of living. So, it is essential that people go home.

I'm watching the clock; I know I'm going to be out of time. But I do think that it is a massive, massive challenge, and I know that this won't be the only report of its kind. What I do hope is that the next one will show some of the progress that we all want to see.

Diolch i'r Cadeirydd am gadeirio'r pwyllgor mewn modd colegol ac am yr adroddiad a ddeilliodd o hynny. Ni allwn edrych ar bob agwedd ar yr hyn sy'n creu'r problemau yn y cyfnod byr hwn wrth gwrs, ond un o'r problemau gyda rhyddhau cleifion ar yr adeg briodol, yn amlwg, yw staffio. Nid yw o unrhyw werth o gwbl—i'r gwrthwyneb, mewn gwirionedd—i gleifion aros yn yr ysbyty'n ddiangen. Felly, nid yw o fudd i les corfforol na lles meddyliol y claf, ac nid yw'n deg ychwaith ar staff yr ysbyty na fydd, er gwaethaf eu hymdrechion gorau, yn gallu rhoi'r sylw angenrheidiol, mewn ward brysur iawn, i rywun a allai fod yn dioddef o gyflwr fel dementia, er enghraifft. Mae'r adroddiad yn tynnu sylw at staffio yn y sector gofal cymdeithasol. Mae wedi cael ei grybwyll eisoes. Mae angen mynd i'r afael â hyn ar frys. Ac rwy'n gwybod ac yn deall fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn y gofod hwnnw a'u bod yn ceisio dod i delerau â'r hyn y gallant ei wneud, fel y cyflog byw, fel hyfforddiant ychwanegol, ond er hynny, ni allwn osgoi'r ffaith bod prinder enfawr o staff o fewn gofal cymdeithasol ac o fewn ysbytai hefyd.

Ac fe soniais, yr wythnos diwethaf, fod angen inni fynd i'r afael â pham y mae pobl—a menywod ydynt yn bennaf—yn gadael y proffesiwn ar oedran penodol, o gwmpas 40 oed. Beth yw'r rheswm am hynny? Pam y maent yn gadael ac yn ein gadael ni gyda'r prinder hwn? Ai oherwydd eu bod hwy eu hunain wedi dod yn ofalwyr, neu ai oherwydd eu bod wedi bod yn y system ers 20 mlynedd ac yn awyddus iawn i adael? Nid ydym yn gwybod yr atebion, a dywedodd y Gweinidog y byddai'n chwilio am atebion, oherwydd bydd hynny'n ein helpu, os ydym yn gwybod yr atebion i'r cwestiynau hynny, i edrych ar a meddwl am reoli'r trosiant staff hwnnw, a hefyd yr hyn y bydd angen inni ei wneud ynghylch y niferoedd sy'n cael eu hyfforddi i lenwi'r bwlch hwnnw, os ydym yn gwybod mai dyna'r oedran pan fydd y rhan fwyaf o bobl yn ystyried gadael o bosibl, neu fel arall, gallem gynnig contractau gwahanol iddynt, gweithio mwy hyblyg, gweithio rhan amser. Rydym yn siarad yn aml yma am staff asiantaeth, ond yn aml iawn, os gofynnwch i rywun pam eu bod wedi mynd i weithio i asiantaeth, byddant yn dweud wrthych ei fod yn ddewis sy'n ymwneud â'u ffordd o fyw oherwydd eu bod yn cael gweithio'r oriau y maent eisiau eu gweithio, yn y llefydd y maent eisiau gweithio ynddynt. Felly, mae angen inni archwilio hynny, oherwydd mae hyn i gyd yn chwarae rhan yn yr hyn yr ydym yn siarad amdano yma. Os nad oes gennych y staff, lle bynnag y mae'r prinder hwnnw o staff, ni allwch ac ni fyddwch chi byth yn datrys y problemau.

Rwyf am siarad yn fyr am ofalwyr di-dâl a'r angen am seibiant. Fe wyddom—ac unwaith eto cafwyd tystiolaeth ynglŷn â hyn—nad yw llawer o'r cyfleusterau yr oeddent yn dibynnu arnynt ar gael iddynt mwyach, naill ai, unwaith eto, oherwydd prinder staffio neu ddiffyg cyllid yn sgil y cyni y mae pawb ohonom wedi'i ddioddef, neu fod cyfleusterau eraill ar gael ond nad ydynt yn hygyrch iddynt yn uniongyrchol. Clywsom lawer iawn am welyau gofal cymunedol cam-i-lawr, ac er fy mod yn cefnogi'r angen am y rheini, yn y pen draw mae pobl eisiau mynd adref. Os nad yw pobl yn mynd adref, maent yn dirywio'n gyflym iawn, ac os ydynt mewn gwely ysbyty neu wely cymunedol, mae'r unigolyn hwnnw'n dal i fod mewn gwely. Maent yn mynd yn ddryslyd iawn yn gyflym iawn. Maent yn mynd yn ddibynnol yn gyflym iawn, er eu bod yn mynd i mewn o fod yn byw'n annibynnol. Felly, mae'n hanfodol fod pobl yn mynd adref.

Rwy'n gwylio'r cloc; rwy'n gwybod fy mod yn brin o amser. Ond rwy'n credu ei bod yn her enfawr ac rwy'n gwybod nad hwn fydd yr unig adroddiad o'i fath. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y nesaf yn dangos rhywfaint o'r cynnydd y mae pawb ohonom eisiau ei weld.

16:20

It's a pleasure to take part in this debate this afternoon, and of course as a member of the Health and Social Care Committee, I've seen first-hand evidence from witnesses who are placed in the best position to commentate on the current state of hospital discharges across Wales.

After hearing cases by multiple people across Wales, it's clear that this is an issue that the Government must take immediate action on. However, because the Government has suspended the collection of figures since February 2020, there is no real indication of how big a problem it actually is, and if the cases that we see on a daily basis are our evidence, I expect it could be a lot worse than thought. The last figures showed that many people were prevented from leaving hospital because of delayed transfers of care, which left an additional burden on the availability of beds. This issue leads to greater implications for the NHS, as daily available beds are shockingly low and showing little sign of improving.

Since Labour took responsibility for the running of the Welsh NHS in 1999, we have seen a 29 per cent drop in daily available beds. Although these statistics are appalling, the suffering many face due to this issue is all too real. It's emerged that a patient was forced to wait for 41 hours before ambulance crews transferred care over to A&E, and considering the target time is 15 minutes, this shows that calling it a failure is too soft a verdict on this problem. And in social care, what we need to be aspiring to achieve is a system that is fit for purpose, so that safe discharges can be conducted. Currently, low staffing levels and resources are the main contributors to discharges not occurring, which in turn leads to the whole system blocking, resulting in overcrowded A&E departments and long waits for ambulances, which we see all too often.

Part of the reason for that is that social care staff levels are low and the pay and conditions the staff receive are low. Where the Welsh Government bathe in their minimum-real-living-wage glory at £9.50 an hour, it simply isn't enough. So, what I'm calling for is the alignment of social care staff pay with NHS pay scales, which it is estimated would cost the Government within the region of £9 million. I think this is achievable and I'd be very grateful if the Minister could cover this in responding to the debate this afternoon. Because let's not forget that social care don't just work nine to five, Monday to Friday; they work 24 hours, seven days a week, and work weekends, nights, unsociable hours and sleep-ins. So, I think it's high time that they were rewarded for their commitment to helping our most vulnerable and that we make a career in social care more attractive.

Turning to winter, if I may, and, as I mentioned in health committee last Thursday, I get very anxious at this time of year as the temperatures fall and the nights draw in, and it's simply due to the fact that, year in, year out, we see the horror stories on a daily basis, as pressures are exacerbated during the colder months. It's all well and good talking about winter plans when we're in the full throes of it, but what we'd be best doing is planning for the winter when the sun shines and making sure we have the correct resources in place in a proactive way, so that we can best protect our people from the health conditions that the elements of winter can cause.

I'd just like to conclude my speech today by thanking the Chair of the committee, Russell George, and the hard-working Health and Social Care Committee staff, and, of course, all the witnesses who have contributed to this report this afternoon. Thank you.

Mae'n bleser cael cymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma, ac wrth gwrs fel aelod o'r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol rwyf wedi gweld tystiolaeth o lygad y ffynnon gan dystion sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i sylwebu ar gyflwr presennol y broses o ryddhau cleifion o ysbytai ledled Cymru.

Ar ôl clywed achosion gan nifer o bobl ledled Cymru, mae'n glir fod hwn yn fater y mae'n rhaid i'r Llywodraeth weithredu arno ar unwaith. Fodd bynnag, oherwydd bod y Llywodraeth wedi atal y gwaith o gasglu ffigurau ers mis Chwefror 2020, nid oes unrhyw arwydd gwirioneddol o ba mor fawr yw'r broblem mewn gwirionedd, ac os mai'r achosion a welwn yn ddyddiol yw ein tystiolaeth, rwy'n disgwyl y gallai'r broblem fod yn llawer gwaeth nag a feddyliwyd. Dangosodd y ffigurau diwethaf fod llawer o bobl wedi cael eu hatal rhag gadael yr ysbyty oherwydd oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal, a bod hynny'n rhoi baich ychwanegol ar argaeledd gwelyau. Mae'r broblem hon yn arwain at fwy o oblygiadau i'r GIG, gan fod nifer y gwelyau sydd ar gael yn ddyddiol yn frawychus o isel ac nid oes unrhyw arwydd y bydd y sefyllfa'n gwella.

Ers i'r Blaid Lafur gymryd cyfrifoldeb am redeg GIG Cymru ym 1999, rydym wedi gweld cwymp o 29 y cant yn nifer y gwelyau sydd ar gael yn ddyddiol. Er bod yr ystadegau hyn yn warthus, mae'r dioddefaint y mae llawer yn ei wynebu oherwydd y mater hwn yn real iawn. Daeth yn amlwg fod claf wedi cael ei orfodi i aros am 41 awr cyn i griwiau ambiwlans drosglwyddo gofal i'r adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys, ac o ystyried mai 15 munud yw'r amser targed, mae hyn yn dangos bod ei alw'n fethiant yn feirniadaeth rhy garedig ar y broblem hon. Ac mewn gofal cymdeithasol, mae angen uchelgais arnom i gyflawni system sy'n addas i'r diben fel y gellir rhyddhau cleifion yn ddiogel. Ar hyn o bryd, adnoddau a lefelau staffio isel yw'r prif resymau pam nad yw cleifion yn cael eu rhyddhau, sydd yn ei dro yn creu tagfa yn y system gyfan, gan arwain at adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys gorlawn ac arosiadau hir am ambiwlansys, ac rydym yn gweld y pethau hyn yn rhy aml.

Rhan o'r rheswm am hynny yw bod lefelau staff gofal cymdeithasol yn isel, ac mae'r amodau a'r cyflogau i staff yn isel. Lle mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn nofio yng ngogoniant eu cyflog byw gwirioneddol ar £9.50 yr awr, nid yw'n ddigon. Felly, rwy'n galw am gysondeb rhwng tâl staff gofal cymdeithasol a graddfeydd cyflog y GIG ac amcangyfrifir y byddai hynny'n costio oddeutu £9 miliwn i'r Llywodraeth. Rwy'n credu bod modd ei wneud a byddwn yn ddiolchgar iawn pe gallai'r Gweinidog gyfeirio at hyn wrth ymateb i'r ddadl y prynhawn yma. Oherwydd gadewch inni beidio ag anghofio nad gweithio naw tan bump o ddydd Llun i ddydd Gwener yn unig y bydd staff gofal cymdeithasol yn ei wneud; maent yn gweithio 24 awr, saith diwrnod yr wythnos, maent yn gweithio ar y penwythnosau, yn y nos, oriau anghymdeithasol ac yn aros dros nos. Felly, rwy'n credu ei bod yn hen bryd iddynt gael eu gwobrwyo am eu hymrwymiad i helpu ein pobl fwyaf agored i niwed a'n bod yn gwneud gyrfa ym maes gofal cymdeithasol yn fwy deniadol.

Gan droi at y gaeaf, os caf, ac fel y soniais yn y pwyllgor iechyd ddydd Iau diwethaf, rwy'n mynd yn bryderus iawn ar yr adeg hon o'r flwyddyn wrth i'r tymheredd ostwng ac wrth i'r nosweithiau dynnu i mewn, a hynny'n syml am ein bod, flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn, yn gweld y straeon arswyd yn ddyddiol, wrth i bwysau waethygu yn ystod y misoedd oerach. Mae'n ddigon hawdd siarad am gynlluniau'r gaeaf pan fyddwn yn ei ganol, ond yr hyn a fyddai orau inni ei wneud fyddai cynllunio ar gyfer y gaeaf pan fo'r haul yn tywynnu a sicrhau bod gennym yr adnoddau cywir yn eu lle mewn ffordd ragweithiol, fel y gallwn wneud ein gorau i ddiogelu ein pobl rhag y cyflyrau iechyd y gall tywydd garw'r gaeaf eu hachosi.

Hoffwn orffen fy araith heddiw drwy ddiolch i Gadeirydd y pwyllgor, Russell George, a staff gweithgar y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol, ac wrth gwrs, yr holl dystion sydd wedi cyfrannu at yr adroddiad hwn y prynhawn yma. Diolch.

16:25

As a new member of the Health and Social Care Committee, I want to start by thanking my colleagues and the clerks and everybody who contributed to this report, and I am glad that the Welsh Government has accepted, or accepted in principle, all 25 recommendations.

As a Member with a hospital in my constituency, the Princess of Wales, hospital discharge continues to be one of the key issues, whether that's from healthcare workers on the front line or patients, or their families. I am pleased that the Welsh Government has accepted, as a matter of urgency, to act on step-down care provisions, as set out in recommendation 11. My own health board, Cwm Taf Morgannwg, have told me that hospitals have become a little too much like care homes at this point. Over 25 per cent of patients in hospitals need a step-down bed; there are simply none available. So, they are waiting on wards, some for really long periods of time, where it is not the best place for them, as we've heard from my colleague Joyce Watson. We know that evidence shows that patients start to decline if they are not discharged when they need to be, and I've also been told that the cost-of-living crisis is resulting in some of the care homes in my constituency considering having to close, which would then, of course, reduce bed capacity even further. In Cwm Taf Morgannwg, Prince Charles has access to 100 step-down beds, the Royal Glamorgan Hospital has access to 100 step-down beds, and the Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend has access to just six step-down beds, so I am told that step-down beds are critical for my community. So I know, and I do acknowledge, that the Welsh Government has accepted these escalating pressures, laid out in their response to recommendation 1, and have prioritised a system reset to improve the transition of patients to the most appropriate place for their care, but I would ask that when this money and these discussions are going on with the health boards, that it does make sure that it goes to all of the hospitals across that whole health board.

I'd also like to highlight recommendation 5 on the discharge to recover then assess, and the need to reduce the risk of readmission. Again, in Bridgend, we have some amazing community organisations, such as Age Connects Morgannwg, Care and Repair Cymru, who have been helping with patients post discharge, and I know, from speaking with many community nurses, how much they rely on Care and Repair to assist with recovery time at home and to ensure that patients are safe during and after leaving hospital. Bridgend has also relied on the Age Connects service for discharge for over 20 years. Not only do they provide transportation for patients from hospital, but they also get them settled back into their home, as opposed to just dropping them off at their front door, and they also follow up then over six weeks and offer signposting to other organisations. That helps with aids, adaptations, housing, meal planning and maybe introducing them to a hobby. However, due to financial constraints, these services have now been cut by the health board, so that's no longer happening. I heard from an employee of Age Connects that they were in the hospital the other week, because they were just passing out information about their services, and one of the nurses came up to them and said, 'Would you mind taking this patient home?' They said, 'Well, we don't provide that service anymore.' So, then, the patient had to wait for an ambulance to be able to take them home. So, like I said, I do understand the financial constraints, but it does demonstrate that when these services are disinvested, it impacts patients, but also puts pressure on the ambulance service.

Finally, I'd just like to end by drawing attention to recommendations 12 and 14 regarding the reform of pay and the recruitment drive for social care workers. I've been working closely with deputy leader and cabinet member for social services, Jane Gebbie, and Bridgend County Borough Council, as I've been pushing for a recruitment drive to fill those gaps. I am pleased the Welsh Government has implemented the real living wage for care workers and have stated, in their response, that this is a starting point and not an end point for long-term improvements for workers.

Bridgend council have been lobbying the UK Government as well for a 45p mileage allowance review, after 12 years since the last review, as they are finding it a barrier to recruitment. The fuel crisis impacts on social care workers who rely on using their cars to attend patients in their homes. It's disappointing that the UK Government will not review this allowance, given the fact that we're in desperate need of social care workers. These vital workers are typically low waged and are being impacted by the energy crisis in their jobs. I therefore ask the Welsh Government to work alongside Bridgend council in asking for that review by the UK Government to assist with this recruitment drive in Bridgend and across Wales. Diolch.

Fel aelod newydd o'r Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol, rwyf am ddechrau drwy ddiolch i fy nghyd-Aelodau a'r clercod a phawb a gyfrannodd at yr adroddiad hwn, ac rwy'n falch fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn pob un o'r 25 argymhelliad naill ai'n llawn neu mewn egwyddor.

Fel Aelod gydag ysbyty yn fy etholaeth, Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru, mae rhyddhau cleifion o'r ysbyty yn parhau i fod yn un o'r problemau allweddol sy'n cael eu codi, boed hynny gan weithwyr gofal iechyd ar y rheng flaen neu gleifion neu eu teuluoedd. Rwy'n falch fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn, fel mater brys, y dylid gweithredu ar ddarpariaethau gofal cam-i-lawr, fel y nodir yn argymhelliad 11. Mae fy mwrdd iechyd fy hun, Cwm Taf Morgannwg, wedi dweud wrthyf fod ysbytai wedi dod yn rhy debyg i gartrefi gofal. Mae dros 25 y cant o gleifion mewn ysbytai angen gwely cam-i-lawr; nid oes yr un ar gael. Felly, maent yn aros ar wardiau, am gyfnodau hir iawn weithiau, er nad dyna yw'r lle gorau iddynt fod, fel y clywsom gan fy nghyd-Aelod Joyce Watson. Rydym yn gwybod bod tystiolaeth yn dangos bod cleifion yn dechrau dirywio os na chânt eu rhyddhau pan fo angen iddynt gael eu rhyddhau, ac rwyf hefyd wedi cael gwybod bod yr argyfwng costau byw yn golygu bod rhai o'r cartrefi gofal yn fy etholaeth yn gorfod ystyried cau, a fyddai wedyn, wrth gwrs, yn lleihau capasiti gwelyau hyd yn oed ymhellach. Yng Nghwm Taf Morgannwg, mae gan Ysbyty'r Tywysog Siarl fynediad at 100 o welyau cam-i-lawr, mae gan Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg fynediad at 100 o welyau cam-i-lawr, a dim ond chwe gwely cam-i-lawr y mae gan Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr fynediad atynt, felly dywedwyd wrthyf fod gwelyau cam-i-lawr yn hollbwysig i fy nghymuned. Felly rwy'n gwybod, ac rwy'n cydnabod, fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn y pwysau cynyddol, fel y nodwyd yn eu hymateb i argymhelliad 1, ac wedi blaenoriaethu'r gwaith o ailosod y system er mwyn gwella trosglwyddo cleifion i'r lle mwyaf priodol ar gyfer eu gofal, ond pan fo'r arian hwn a'r trafodaethau hyn yn digwydd gyda'r byrddau iechyd, hoffwn ofyn eu bod yn sicrhau ei fod yn mynd i'r holl ysbytai ar draws y bwrdd iechyd cyfan.

Hoffwn dynnu sylw hefyd at argymhelliad 5 ar ryddhau i adfer yna asesu, a'r angen i leihau'r tebygolrwydd y bydd pobl yn gorfod dychwelyd i'r ysbyty. Unwaith eto, ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr, mae gennym sefydliadau cymunedol anhygoel, megis Age Connects Morgannwg, Gofal a Thrwsio Cymru, sydd wedi bod yn helpu gyda chleifion ar ôl iddynt gael eu rhyddhau, ac rwy'n gwybod, o siarad â nifer o nyrsys cymunedol, cymaint y maent yn dibynnu ar Ofal a Thrwsio Cymru i helpu gyda'r amser adfer gartref ac i sicrhau bod cleifion yn ddiogel yn ystod ac ar ôl gadael yr ysbyty. Mae Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr hefyd wedi dibynnu ar wasanaeth Age Connects i ryddhau cleifion am dros 20 mlynedd. Maent nid yn unig yn darparu cludiant i gleifion o'r ysbyty, ond maent hefyd yn eu helpu i setlo'n ôl yn eu cartrefi, yn hytrach na'u gadael wrth garreg y drws, ac maent hefyd yn cadw mewn cysylltiad dros chwe wythnos ac yn cyfeirio at sefydliadau eraill. Mae hynny'n helpu gyda chymhorthion, addasiadau, tai, cynllunio prydau bwyd ac efallai eu cyflwyno i hobi. Ond oherwydd cyfyngiadau ariannol, mae'r gwasanaethau hyn bellach wedi cael eu torri gan y bwrdd iechyd, felly nid yw hynny'n digwydd bellach. Clywais gan un o weithwyr Age Connects eu bod yn yr ysbyty yr wythnos o'r blaen, am eu bod yn rhannu gwybodaeth am eu gwasanaethau, a daeth un o'r nyrsys atynt a dweud, 'A fyddech chi'n fodlon mynd â'r claf yma adref?' Dywedasant, 'Wel, nid ydym yn darparu'r gwasanaeth hwnnw mwyach.' Felly, wedyn, bu'n rhaid i'r claf aros am ambiwlans i'w cludo adref. Felly, fel y dywedais, rwy'n deall y cyfyngiadau ariannol, ond mae'n dangos, pan fo dadfuddsoddi'n digwydd yn y gwasanaethau hyn, ei fod yn effeithio ar gleifion, ond hefyd yn rhoi pwysau ar y gwasanaeth ambiwlans.

Yn olaf, hoffwn orffen drwy dynnu sylw at argymhellion 12 a 14 sy'n ymwneud â diwygio cyflogau a'r ymgyrch i recriwtio gweithwyr gofal cymdeithasol. Rwyf wedi bod yn gweithio'n agos gyda'r dirprwy arweinydd a'r aelod cabinet dros wasanaethau cymdeithasol, Jane Gebbie, a Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, am fy mod wedi bod yn pwyso am ymgyrch recriwtio i lenwi'r bylchau hynny. Rwy'n falch fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gweithredu'r cyflog byw gwirioneddol ar gyfer gweithwyr gofal ac wedi datgan, yn eu hymateb, mai man cychwyn yw hwn ac nid y pen draw ar welliannau hirdymor i weithwyr.

Hefyd, mae cyngor Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr wedi bod yn lobïo Llywodraeth y DU am adolygiad o'r lwfans milltiroedd 45c, wedi 12 mlynedd ers yr adolygiad diwethaf, gan eu bod yn ei ystyried yn rhwystr i recriwtio. Mae'r argyfwng tanwydd yn effeithio ar weithwyr gofal cymdeithasol sy'n gorfod defnyddio'u ceir i fynd at gleifion yn eu cartrefi. Mae'n siomedig na fydd Llywodraeth y DU yn adolygu'r lwfans hwn, o ystyried bod taer angen gweithwyr gofal cymdeithasol. Mae'r gweithwyr hanfodol hyn ar gyflogau isel fel arfer ac effeithir arnynt gan yr argyfwng ynni yn eu swyddi. Gofynnaf felly i Lywodraeth Cymru weithio ochr yn ochr â chyngor Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr i ofyn am yr adolygiad gan Lywodraeth y DU i helpu'r ymgyrch recriwtio ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr a ledled Cymru. Diolch.

16:30

I recall about 10 years ago the then chief executive of the Cardiff and Vale health board telling me that in the Heath hospital—our tertiary hospital—the average age of patients was 84 years old, and I very much doubt that that age profile has changed. So, I don't think we should be blaming hospitals for the situation we're in. Everything tips up in the hospital because the other services aren't there. We are never going to arrive unless we are redirecting resources from those hospitals where we have these emergency responses. We have to therefore strengthen community nursing.

Nobody wants to spend more time in a hospital than is medically necessary for them to be there, unless, of course, they haven't got a home to go to that is suitably equipped to meet their needs for convalescence or ongoing needs. I recall one of my constituents, who was a former headteacher, who, aged 93, went into hospital because he had a urinary infection. He played absolute merry hell with me, the MP, the police commissioner, to get him out of there, as well as his family, because he just did not want to be there any longer. Obviously, being a former headteacher, he was somebody who was used to being obeyed, even though he was in his nineties. But you can imagine how somebody else, who didn't have that skill set, would just be left there to die. We cannot go on like this. Nobody wants to die in hospital at all. I certainly don't. 

District nursing is not a new idea. It was pioneered in Liverpool in the 1860s and it was an important forerunner of the NHS. It used to consist of a nurse with a bag of kit strapped to the back of a bicycle. But modern district nursing needs to use electronic case load scheduling to optimise safety and cost-effectiveness. I recall visiting the Cwm Taf neighbourhood nursing team in 2020 just before lockdown and heard how the e-scheduling system saved the senior management absolute hours of scheduling to take account of people either going into hospital or people coming out of hospital who needed to be added to the number of people they needed to deal with.

I know that this is something that the Minister is working on, and I'm very glad to hear the progress that is being made, because it really is one of the keys to changing the dial on this system. Because what it does is enable us to understand the demand for district nursing services where there is capacity or need to support the system to prevent admissions and to facilitate discharges. The team leader has got to be able to understand what demand the neighbourhood requires and what skill and volume of staff they're going to need to meet it. This has also enabled teams to safely incorporate the skills of healthcare support workers into their teams and release more highly qualified registered nurses to deliver more complex care. Understanding capacity and demand on an hour-by-hour basis can enable district nursing services to flex the workforce to meet the demand and to respond to any short-term financing issues. So, I'm really pleased to understand—[Interruption.] Altaf, did you want to make an intervention?

Tua 10 mlynedd yn ôl rwy'n cofio prif weithredwr bwrdd iechyd Caerdydd a'r Fro ar y pryd yn dweud wrthyf, yn ysbyty'r Heath—ein hysbyty trydyddol—fod cyfartaledd oedran cleifion yn 84 oed, ac rwy'n amau'n fawr fod y proffil oedran hwnnw wedi newid. Felly, nid wyf yn credu y dylem feio ysbytai am y sefyllfa yr ydym ynddi. Mae popeth yn glanio yn yr ysbyty am nad yw'r gwasanaethau eraill yno. Nid ydym byth yn mynd i gyrraedd oni bai ein bod yn ailgyfeirio adnoddau o'r ysbytai lle mae gennym yr ymatebion brys hyn. Felly, rhaid inni gryfhau nyrsio cymunedol.

Nid oes neb eisiau treulio mwy o amser mewn ysbyty nag sy'n angenrheidiol yn feddygol iddynt fod yno, oni bai pan nad oes ganddynt gartref i fynd iddo sydd â'r adnoddau addas ar gyfer eu hanghenion gwella neu anghenion parhaus. Rwy'n cofio un o fy etholwyr, a oedd yn gyn-brifathro, a aeth i'r ysbyty, yn 93 oed, am fod ganddo haint wrinol. Fe gefais i, yr Aelod Seneddol, a'r comisiynydd heddlu, yn ogystal â'i deulu, ein plagio'n ddiddiwedd ganddo i'w gael allan o'r fan honno am nad oedd am fod yno mwyach. Yn amlwg, ag yntau'n gyn-brifathro, roedd yn rhywun a oedd wedi arfer cael pobl yn ufuddhau, er ei fod yn ei nawdegau. Ond gallwch ddychmygu sut y byddai rhywun arall, nad oedd â'r set sgiliau honno, yn cael eu gadael yno i farw. Ni allwn barhau fel hyn. Nid oes unrhyw un eisiau marw yn yr ysbyty. Yn sicr nid wyf fi. 

Nid yw nyrsys ardal yn syniad newydd. Cafodd ei wneud yn gyntaf yn Lerpwl yn y 1860au ac roedd yn rhagflaenydd pwysig i'r GIG. Arferai olygu nyrs gyda phecyn o bethau wedi'u clymu ar gefn beic. Ond mae angen i nyrsys ardal modern ddefnyddio amserlennu llwyth achos electronig i optimeiddio diogelwch a chosteffeithiolrwydd. Rwy'n cofio ymweld â thîm nyrsio cymdogaeth Cwm Taf yn 2020 ychydig cyn y cyfyngiadau symud a chlywed sut yr arbedodd y system e-drefnu oriau bwy'i gilydd o amserlennu i'r uwch reolwyr i gyfrif pobl a oedd naill ai'n mynd i mewn i'r ysbyty neu bobl yn dod allan o'r ysbyty i'w hychwanegu at nifer y bobl yr oedd angen iddynt ymdrin â hwy.

Rwy'n gwybod bod hyn yn rhywbeth y mae'r Gweinidog yn gweithio arno, ac rwy'n falch iawn o glywed bod cynnydd yn cael ei wneud, oherwydd mae'n un o'r allweddi i wella'r system. Oherwydd mae'n ein galluogi i ddeall y galw am wasanaethau nyrsys ardal lle mae capasiti neu angen i gefnogi'r system i atal derbyniadau ac i hwyluso rhyddhau cleifion. Rhaid i arweinydd y tîm allu deall pa alw sydd yna yn y gymdogaeth a pha sgiliau a nifer staff fydd eu hangen i'w ddiwallu. Mae hyn hefyd wedi galluogi timau i ymgorffori sgiliau gweithwyr cymorth gofal iechyd yn ddiogel yn eu timau a rhyddhau nyrsys cofrestredig mwy cymwys i ddarparu gofal mwy cymhleth. Gall deall capasiti a galw fesul awr alluogi gwasanaethau nyrsys ardal i wneud y gweithlu'n fwy hyblyg i ateb y galw ac ymateb i unrhyw faterion cyllido tymor byr. Felly, rwy'n falch iawn o ddeall—[Torri ar draws.] Altaf, a oeddech chi eisiau gwneud ymyriad?

16:35

Thanks, Jenny. I have worked in the hospital, and apart from nursing care and apart from social services, it is the discharge summary that is never prepared on time. And that discharge summary comes from the most junior doctor in the department when it should be coming from the consultant when he is taking the ward round and discharging the patient. That should be done as early as possible. 

Diolch, Jenny. Rwyf wedi gweithio yn yr ysbyty, ac ar wahân i ofal nyrsio ac ar wahân i'r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, nid yw adroddiad rhyddhau'r claf byth yn cael ei baratoi ar amser. A daw'r adroddiad rhyddhau'r claf gan y meddyg isaf ei statws yn yr adran pan ddylai ddod gan y meddyg ymgynghorol wrth iddo wneud rownd y ward a rhyddhau'r claf. Dylid gwneud hynny mor gynnar â phosibl. 

Thank you for pointing that out, because that was something that was picked up by Audit Wales as well, in their report. They said that less than half were recording whether the discharge was complex or simple, and less than a third of hospitals were recording when the patient was actually fit for discharge, as opposed to when they actually got out.

I'm glad to say that, today, at the Queen's Nursing Institute annual conference, the Betsi Cadwaladr nurses are presenting the work that they're doing up in Betsi Cadwaladr on how the visibility of their community services data is transforming care delivery. So, well done to the Betsi Cadwaladr team. And tomorrow, Paul Labourne, who I pay a lot of attention to because he's our integration and innovation nursing officer for primary and community care in the Welsh Government, is speaking. It's really important that we understand that the way in which we're rolling out these electronic case load systems is also being used to test whether we can capture the levels of care for every single patient visited on this system. This apparently has never been undertaken before, and so this could seriously improve our genuine understanding of what people need in the community. So, well done, Minister. 

What is also good news is that up to three local authorities that have now started using the same system with their domiciliary care services are reducing duplication, enabling better joined-up visits with neighbourhood district nursing—hooray—

Diolch am dynnu sylw at hynny, oherwydd roedd hynny'n rhywbeth a gafodd ei nodi gan Archwilio Cymru hefyd, yn eu hadroddiad hwy. Roeddent yn dweud bod llai na hanner yn cofnodi p'un a oedd rhyddhau'r claf yn gymhleth neu'n syml, a bod llai na thraean o ysbytai'n cofnodi pan oedd y claf yn barod i'w ryddhau, yn hytrach na phan gafodd ei ryddhau mewn gwirionedd.

Rwy'n falch o ddweud, heddiw, yng nghynhadledd flynyddol Sefydliad Nyrsio'r Frenhines, fod nyrsys Betsi Cadwaladr yn cyflwyno'r gwaith y maent yn ei wneud i fyny yn Betsi Cadwaladr ar sut y mae amlygrwydd eu data gwasanaethau cymunedol yn trawsnewid darparu gofal. Felly, da iawn i dîm Betsi Cadwaladr. Ac yfory, mae Paul Labourne yn siarad, sef rhywun rwy'n talu llawer o sylw iddo oherwydd mai ef yw ein swyddog nyrsio integreiddio ac arloesedd ar gyfer gofal sylfaenol a chymunedol yn Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae'n bwysig iawn ein bod yn deall bod y ffordd y cyflwynwn y systemau llwyth achos electronig hyn hefyd yn cael ei ddefnyddio i brofi a allwn ni nodi lefelau gofal ar gyfer pob claf unigol yr ymwelwyd â hwy ar y system hon. Mae'n debyg nad yw hyn erioed wedi cael ei wneud o'r blaen, ac felly gallai wella'n fawr ein dealltwriaeth wirioneddol o'r hyn sydd ei angen ar bobl yn y gymuned. Felly, da iawn chi, Weinidog. 

Newyddion da hefyd yw bod hyd at dri awdurdod lleol sydd bellach wedi dechrau defnyddio'r un system gyda'u gwasanaethau gofal cartref yn cyfyngu ar ddyblygu gwaith, gan alluogi ymweliadau mwy cydgysylltiedig â nyrsys ardal cymdogaeth—hŵre—

Jenny, you need to conclude now, please. 

Jenny, mae angen i chi ddod i ben yn awr, os gwelwch yn dda. 

—as well as giving those services the workforce, the productivity and efficiency savings that such systems can and should deliver. This will make for a much more interesting and less stressful job and therefore will impact positively on our retention systems. So, I look forward to hearing exactly when we're going to have it out across the whole of Wales. 

—yn ogystal â rhoi'r gweithlu, y cynhyrchiant a'r arbedion effeithlonrwydd y gall systemau o'r fath eu cyflawni ac y dylent eu cyflawni i'r gwasanaethau hynny. Bydd hyn yn gwneud y swydd yn llawer mwy diddorol gyda llai o straen ac felly bydd yn effeithio'n gadarnhaol ar ein systemau cadw staff. Felly, rwy'n edrych ymlaen at glywed yn union pryd y byddwn yn ei gael drwy Gymru gyfan. 

Can I thank the committee for the report and for the debate today? I have to say that there are a lot of good recommendations and analysis within this, focusing particularly on the issues of discharge and how we deal with this. I think it's also recognition that this is exceptionally challenging, extremely complex and that there isn't a simple switch to solve this. There is a range of things that we need to do.

Minister, I just want to reflect in my opening remarks on the fact that the NHS, the staff within the NHS, from the clinicians and the nurses to the people who clean the operating theatres and prepare them and the porters, are performing miracles every day, and I get told that by my constituents as well. So, whilst there is immense pressure, probably unprecedented pressure, on the system and it isn't, as you were saying, simply in winter any more, it's every single day through every single year, the demands are rising on what we expect of the NHS as well as the challenges that it's facing post pandemic and the cost pressures on it, it is performing miracles, and I know that. Both my parents passed away in the last few years, and the treatment they had and the care they had over the years, in acute settings and actually when they finally went into hospital and didn't come back out, was simply incredible, and I challenge anywhere in the world to give them the care that they had and the compassion and the treatment that they had. 

What this report focuses on is something that I reflected on after I recently visited the hospital that Sarah and I share, the Princess of Wales Hospital. I met and spoke in detail and at great length with the emergency services staff in A&E and wider. I reflected with them that I've always known that that A&E unit has been from time to time commended for the best-practice approach that it has in the way that it deals with patients, identifies the problem coming off the ambulance and gets them into the hospital, and so on. It's been an innovator over many years. And they're still doing what they believe to be best practice, but the simple fact is—. Their analysis was interesting, because they feel that they are now caught in a situation where they cannot provide the standard of care that they need to, and it's not to do with what you see at the front end of the hospital, it's what you see at the back end; it is discharge.

They saw as symptoms the fact that you have ambulances queueing; they saw as symptoms the fact that you have people stuck too long in emergency services, sitting in chairs when they should be in beds, lying in beds when they should be in a ward, and so on, and when they get to that ward, being stuck in that ward too long and not being able to actually leave the hospital because of problems with discharge. They're seeing people, as has been remarked in this debate already, who are turning up—these are not people who are turning up for futile, silly reasons within emergency services; they are typically much older, they're typically much iller by the time they present. So, it's not people you can turn away.

Luke was there with me at this visit; we heard this face-to-face from front-line staff there. They're unable to get them onto the wards, unable to move them out of emergency services, unable, then, to move them from the hospital into good wraparound care in their homes—despite, by the way, what Jenny was referring to as really good practice within Cwm Taf and within the Bridgend area about that wraparound care and nursing service that we provide; despite a brilliant—I'd say the best in Wales—Care and Repair service who have got a backlog as long as your arm. So, every part of the thing we rely on for discharge back to home is creaking.

Meanwhile, as Sarah was rightly saying, we are significantly under capacity in the Bridgend area in terms of step-down care. So, I would say to you, Minister, around the issue I raised on the floor yesterday about the old Maesteg Community Hospital—much loved, much valued—here's an opportunity here, curiously, that could be one of the roles that Maesteg hospital actually provides going forward. But we need to find even more capacity within the Bridgend area.

There are definitely issues we need to tackle on breaking down the funding things that still remain after all these years between local authorities and health boards. We've sat with them—I've sat with them—and said to them, 'We know what the problem is here with lack of capacity in being able to move patients out. Put your heads together, put your funding together and decide how you're going to do it, and move on.' I know they are trying to do it, Minister, but I guess that challenge is replicated across the whole of Wales.

The point on social care levels of pay is a point that's really well made, and we've recognised this for a long time. It's good that we've moved to the real living wage in the health service and so on and so forth, and we've tried to professionalise the social care system and so on, but I would simply say that the solution to this is not to see what more we can actually say to that Minister sitting there—take away from the health service in some area to give to social care workers here or whatever. I want Welsh Ministers to do whatever they can, but this needs to be a UK-wide uplift. This needs to be right across the UK, because we know that what the UK Government gives in terms of social care settlements, in terms of that uplift, we can replicate here.

I've gone over time. There are significant issues, with staff trying to do their absolute utmost to deliver best practice and compassionate care, but what I would say is that they said to us, 'We're at the point now where we worry when we come in, because we're trying to do our jobs and we can't do it.' The problem is not at the front door, it's at the back door. How do we resolve that, Minister? How fast can we get to resolving that?

A gaf fi ddiolch i'r pwyllgor am yr adroddiad ac am y ddadl heddiw? Rhaid imi ddweud bod llawer o argymhellion a dadansoddiadau da o'i fewn, gan ganolbwyntio'n enwedig ar faterion rhyddhau cleifion a sut yr ymdriniwn â hynny. Rwy'n credu ei fod hefyd yn cydnabod bod hyn yn eithriadol o heriol, yn hynod gymhleth ac nad oes un newid syml a all ddatrys hyn. Mae angen inni wneud amrywiaeth o bethau.

Weinidog, yn fy sylwadau agoriadol rwyf am fyfyrio ar y ffaith bod y GIG, y staff o fewn y GIG, o'r clinigwyr a'r nyrsys i'r bobl sy'n glanhau'r theatrau llawdriniaethau ac yn eu paratoi a'r porthorion, yn gwneud gwyrthiau bob dydd, ac rwy'n cael gwybod hynny gan fy etholwyr hefyd. Felly, er bod pwysau aruthrol, pwysau digynsail mae'n debyg, ar y system ac nad yn y gaeaf yn unig, fel yr oeddech chi'n ei ddweud, y mae'n digwydd mwyach, ond bob diwrnod o'r flwyddyn, a bod y gofynion yn cynyddu ynghylch yr hyn yr ydym yn ei ddisgwyl gan y GIG yn ogystal â'r heriau y mae'n eu hwynebu wedi'r pandemig a'r pwysau costau arno, mae'n perfformio gwyrthiau, ac rwy'n gwybod hynny. Bu farw fy nau riant yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf, ac roedd y driniaeth a gawsant a'r gofal a gawsant dros y blynyddoedd, mewn lleoliadau acíwt a phan aethant i mewn i'r ysbyty ar y diwedd heb ddod yn ôl allan, yn gwbl anhygoel, ac rwy'n herio unrhyw le yn y byd i roi'r gofal a gawsant a'r tosturi a'r driniaeth a gawsant. 

Mae'r adroddiad hwn yn canolbwyntio ar rywbeth y bûm yn myfyrio arno ar ôl i mi ymweld â'r ysbyty y mae Sarah a minnau yn ei rannu, Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru, yn ddiweddar. Fe wneuthum gyfarfod a siarad yn fanwl ac yn hir iawn gyda staff y gwasanaethau brys yn yr adran damweiniau ac achosion brys ac yn ehangach. Soniais fy mod bob amser wedi gwybod bod yr uned damweiniau ac achosion brys honno wedi cael ei chanmol o bryd i'w gilydd am y dull ymarfer gorau sydd ganddi o ymdrin â chleifion, drwy nodi'r broblem wrth ddod oddi ar yr ambiwlans a'u cael i mewn i'r ysbyty, ac yn y blaen. Mae wedi bod yn arloeswr dros nifer o flynyddoedd. Ac maent yn dal i wneud yr hyn y credant sy'n ymarfer gorau, ond y ffaith syml amdani yw—. Roedd eu dadansoddiad yn ddiddorol, oherwydd teimlant eu bod bellach wedi cael eu dal mewn sefyllfa lle na allant ddarparu gofal o'r safon sydd ei hangen, ac nid yw'n ymwneud â'r hyn a welwch ym mhen blaen yr ysbyty, ond yn hytrach yr hyn a welwch yn y cefn; sef rhyddhau cleifion.

Roeddent yn gweld y ffaith bod gennych ambiwlansys yn ciwio fel symptomau; roeddent yn gweld y ffaith bod gennych bobl gorfod aros yn rhy hir mewn adrannau gwasanaethau brys fel symptomau, yn eistedd mewn cadeiriau pan ddylent fod mewn gwelyau, yn gorwedd mewn gwelyau pan ddylent fod ar ward, ac yn y blaen, a phan fyddant yn cyrraedd y ward, yn gorfod aros ar y ward honno'n rhy hir a methu gadael yr ysbyty oherwydd problemau gyda rhyddhau. Maent yn gweld pobl, fel sydd wedi cael ei nodi yn y ddadl hon yn barod, yn dod yno—nid pobl sy'n dod yno am resymau ofer, gwirion o fewn y gwasanaethau brys yw'r rhain; maent fel arfer yn llawer hŷn, maent fel arfer yn llawer salach erbyn iddynt gyrraedd. Felly, nid pobl y gallwch eu troi ymaith.

Roedd Luke yno gyda mi ar yr ymweliad hwn; clywsom hyn wyneb yn wyneb gan staff rheng flaen yno. Ni allant eu cael ar y wardiau, ni allant eu symud allan o'r gwasanaethau brys, ac ni allant eu symud wedyn o'r ysbyty i ofal cofleidiol da yn eu cartrefi—er gwaethaf, gyda llaw, yr hyn yr oedd Jenny yn cyfeirio atynt fel arferion da iawn yng Nghwm Taf ac yn ardal Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr gyda'r gofal cofleidiol a gwasanaeth nyrsio a ddarparerir; er gwaethaf gwasanaeth Gofal a Thrwsio gwych—byddwn i'n dweud y gorau yng Nghymru—sydd ag ôl-groniad mor hir â'ch braich. Felly, mae pob rhan o'r peth y dibynnwn arno ar gyfer rhyddhau cleifion adref yn gwegian.

Yn y cyfamser, fel yr oedd Sarah yn gywir i ddweud, rydym o dan y capasiti yn sylweddol yn ardal Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr gyda gofal cam-i-lawr. Felly, rwyf am ddweud wrthych, Weinidog, ynghylch y mater a godais ar y llawr ddoe am hen Ysbyty Cymunedol Maesteg—annwyl iawn, a gwerthfawr iawn—dyma gyfle yma, yn rhyfedd iawn, y gallai honno fod yn un o'r rolau y mae ysbyty Maesteg yn eu darparu yn y dyfodol. Ond mae angen inni ddod o hyd i fwy o gapasiti eto yn ardal Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr.

Yn bendant mae yna faterion sy'n galw am ein sylw er mwyn chwalu'r pethau cyllido sy'n dal i aros ar ôl yr holl flynyddoedd rhwng awdurdodau lleol a byrddau iechyd. Rydym wedi eistedd gyda hwy—rwyf fi wedi eistedd gyda hwy—ac wedi dweud wrthynt, 'Rydym yn gwybod beth yw'r broblem yma gyda diffyg capasiti i allu symud cleifion allan. Rhowch eich pennau at ei gilydd, rhowch eich cyllid at ei gilydd a phenderfynwch sut yr ydych am ei wneud, a symudwch ymlaen.' Rwy'n gwybod eu bod yn ceisio ei wneud, Weinidog, ond rwy'n dyfalu bod yr her honno'n cael ei hailadrodd ar draws Cymru gyfan.

Mae'r pwynt ar lefelau cyflog gofal cymdeithasol yn bwynt sydd wedi'i wneud yn dda iawn, ac rydym wedi cydnabod hyn ers amser maith. Mae'n dda ein bod wedi symud i'r cyflog byw go iawn yn y gwasanaeth iechyd ac yn y blaen, a'n bod wedi ceisio proffesiynoli'r system gofal cymdeithasol ac yn y blaen, ond yn syml, byddwn yn dweud nad yr ateb i hyn yw gweld beth arall y gallwn ei ddweud wrth y Gweinidog sy'n eistedd yno mewn gwirionedd—cymryd gan y gwasanaeth iechyd mewn rhyw faes i'w roi i weithwyr gofal cymdeithasol yma neu beth bynnag. Rwyf am i Weinidogion Cymru wneud beth bynnag a allant, ond mae angen i hyn fod yn gynnydd i'r DU gyfan. Mae angen i hyn ddigwydd ar draws y DU, oherwydd fe wyddom, o ran yr hyn y mae Llywodraeth y DU yn ei roi yn setliad gofal cymdeithasol, o ran y cynnydd hwnnw, gallwn efelychu hynny yma.

Mae fy amser wedi dod i ben. Ceir problemau sylweddol, gyda staff yn ceisio gwneud eu gorau glas i gyflawni arferion gorau a gofal tosturiol, ond yr hyn y byddwn i'n ei ddweud yw eu bod wedi dweud wrthym, 'Rydym ar y pwynt yn awr lle rydym yn poeni pan ddown i mewn, oherwydd rydym yn ceisio gwneud ein swyddi ac ni allwn eu gwneud.' Nid wrth y drws blaen y mae'r broblem, ond wrth y drws cefn. Sut y gallwn ddatrys hynny, Weinidog? Pa mor gyflym y gallwn ni ddatrys hynny?

16:40

Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Eluned Morgan.

I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services, Eluned Morgan.

Diolch yn fawr. I welcome the report, and I'd like to commend the committee on its really thorough approach to the review. The report explores a wide spectrum of areas that can impact patient flow through our hospitals, and ultimately on to discharge and recovery. What we've heard today is how complex the situation is. It has got to be a whole-system approach, because unless we do it as a whole system, some part will bung up the other part. The recommendations that you've made will be valuable in helping to provide further steer and focus as we tackle improvements in this area. We've provided our formal response to the report. I welcome the comments provided today by Members, and I wanted to use this opportunity to highlight a number of key measures that we're taking forward in support of addressing patient flow and safe and timely discharge.

Now, in order to make improvements to our systems, we must look not only at patient flow and discharge, but also at community responses and admission avoidance services. So, it's not just at the end of the system, as you suggested there, it's actually, 'How do we stop them from coming in in the first place?' as well. It's the preventative, so, again, that's an extra complication, but we're putting a huge amount of resource and work into those prevention measures as well. We have work under way focused on anticipating care and to support people closer to home, wherever that may be, and we seek the best clinical response for them.

Part of that prevention strategy is within our six goals for urgent and emergency care, and that's a strategic primary care programme, so it brings in primary, secondary and ambulance and all of those. This is all being developed by clinicians and they've told us, 'This is what will work'. So, we've got six goals. A lot of it is about prevention, a lot of it is about, 'How quickly can you get people out? Where is the flow coming from?' I expect all services to use that home-first principle and to adhere to the discharge to recover then assess pathway. So, we know that it's better to make an assessment in someone's home, rather than in a hospital bed. That's something I'm really pushing on, so the reablement, for me, has got to be done in the home, so getting those occupational therapists back out into the community is really important.

It's important also that we provide same-day emergency care and support people to return home without admission into hospital. Estimated dates of discharge should be set early and communicated so that all the teams, both within the hospital and community know what's being planned, and then allocating the correct discharge to release is really important, and to ensure that we have fewer days when someone is in hospital.

Gareth, you mentioned that we should be planning for winter. I can assure you that we've been planning for winter since April. We have been preparing for this. It is now built into our annual structure. That £25 million we put in right at the beginning of the process, because we know that if you start recruiting in September, it's too late, you've got to train people up. So, we've had this huge campaign over the summer to recruit people into the care service, into reablement, because, actually, we needed them ready for the autumn. So, all of this is being prepared, the money—usually, what we do is we give a lump of money now, but it's too late, and everybody's asked us. So, we're doing that already.

As well as introducing revised pathway processes—

Diolch yn fawr. Rwy'n croesawu'r adroddiad, a hoffwn ganmol y pwyllgor ar ei ddull trylwyr iawn o ymdrin â'r adolygiad. Mae'r adroddiad yn archwilio sbectrwm eang o bethau sy'n gallu effeithio ar lif cleifion drwy ein hysbytai, ac yn y pen draw ymlaen at ryddhau ac adferiad. Yr hyn a glywsom heddiw yw pa mor gymhleth yw'r sefyllfa. Mae'n rhaid iddo fod yn ddull system gyfan, oherwydd oni bai ein bod yn ei wneud fel system gyfan, bydd rhyw ran yn creu tagfa mewn rhan arall. Bydd yr argymhellion a wnaethoch yn werthfawr i helpu i ddarparu chyfeiriad a ffocws pellach wrth inni fynd i'r afael â gwelliannau yn y maes hwn. Rydym wedi darparu ein hymateb ffurfiol i'r adroddiad. Rwy'n croesawu'r sylwadau a ddarparwyd heddiw gan yr Aelodau, ac roeddwn am ddefnyddio'r cyfle hwn i dynnu sylw at nifer o fesurau allweddol yr ydym yn bwrw ymlaen â hwy i gefnogi'r gwaith o reoli llif cleifion a rhyddhau cleifion yn ddiogel ac yn amserol.

Nawr, er mwyn gwneud gwelliannau i'n systemau, rhaid inni edrych nid yn unig ar lif cleifion a rhyddhau cleifion, ond hefyd ar ymatebion cymunedol a gwasanaethau osgoi derbyniadau i'r ysbyty. Felly, fel yr awgrymoch chi yno, nid ar ben draw'r system y mae'r broblem, ond 'Sut yr awn ati i'w hatal rhag dod i mewn yn y lle cyntaf?' hefyd. Yr ataliol, felly, eto, mae hynny'n gymhlethdod ychwanegol, ond rydym yn rhoi llawer iawn o adnoddau ac yn gweithio ar y mesurau atal hynny hefyd. Mae gennym waith ar y gweill yn canolbwyntio ar ragweld gofal a chefnogi pobl yn agosach at adref, ble bynnag y gallai hynny fod, ac rydym yn chwilio am yr ymateb clinigol gorau ar eu cyfer.

Mae rhan o'r strategaeth atal honno o fewn ein chwe nod ar gyfer gofal brys ac argyfwng, ac mae honno'n rhaglen gofal sylfaenol strategol, felly mae'n dod â gofal cynradd, eilaidd ac ambiwlans a'r rheini i gyd i mewn. Mae hyn i gyd yn cael ei ddatblygu gan glinigwyr ac maent wedi dweud wrthym, 'Dyma fydd yn gweithio'. Felly, mae gennym chwe nod. Mae llawer ohono'n ymwneud ag atal, mae llawer ohono'n ymwneud â, 'Pa mor gyflym y gallwch chi gael pobl allan? O ble mae'r llif yn dod?'  Rwy'n disgwyl i bob gwasanaeth ddefnyddio'r egwyddor gartref yn gyntaf a chadw at y llwybr rhyddhau i adfer yna asesu. Felly, rydym yn gwybod ei bod hi'n well gwneud asesiad yng nghartref rhywun yn hytrach nag mewn gwely ysbyty. Mae hynny'n rhywbeth rwy'n gwthio arno, ac o'r herwydd, i mi, mae'n rhaid gwneud yr ailalluogi yn y cartref, felly mae cael y therapyddion galwedigaethol yn ôl allan i'r gymuned yn bwysig iawn.

Mae'n bwysig hefyd ein bod yn darparu gofal brys un diwrnod ac yn cynorthwyo pobl i ddychwelyd adref heb eu derbyn i'r ysbyty. Dylid gosod dyddiadau amcangyfrifedig ar gyfer rhyddhau yn gynnar a'u cyfathrebu fel bod yr holl dimau, yn yr ysbyty ac yn y gymuned, yn gwybod beth sy'n cael ei gynllunio, ac yna mae dyrannu'r rhyddhau i adfer cywir yn bwysig iawn, ac i sicrhau bod gennym lai o ddiwrnodau pan fydd rhywun yn yr ysbyty.

Gareth, fe wnaethoch chi sôn y dylem gynllunio ar gyfer y gaeaf. Gallaf eich sicrhau ein bod wedi bod yn cynllunio ar gyfer y gaeaf ers mis Ebrill. Rydym wedi bod yn paratoi ar gyfer hyn. Bellach mae wedi'i ymgorffori yn ein strwythur blynyddol. Fe gyflwynwyd £25 miliwn gennym ar ddechrau'r broses, oherwydd os dechreuwch recriwtio ym mis Medi, fe wyddom ei bod yn rhy hwyr, mae'n rhaid ichi hyfforddi pobl. Felly, cawsom ymgyrch enfawr dros yr haf i recriwtio pobl i'r gwasanaeth gofal, i ailalluogi, oherwydd, mewn gwirionedd, roedd eu hangen arnom yn barod ar gyfer yr hydref. Felly, mae hyn i gyd yn cael ei baratoi, yr arian—fel arfer, yr hyn a wnawn yw rhoi talp o arian yn awr, ond mae'n rhy hwyr, ac mae pawb wedi gofyn i ni. Felly, rydym yn gwneud hynny'n barod.

Yn ogystal â chyflwyno prosesau llwybr diwygiedig—

16:45

Will the Minister take an intervention from Altaf Hussain?

A wnaiff y Gweinidog dderbyn ymyriad gan Altaf Hussain?

Thanks, health Minister. Does it include an observation ward of 30 or 50 beds attached to each A&E department and district general hospital? It will be that ward that you could be using for these extra patients who are fit for discharge, but not going home.

Diolch, Weinidog iechyd. A yw'n cynnwys ward arsylwi o 30 neu 50 o welyau ynghlwm wrth bob adran damweiniau ac achosion brys ac ysbyty dosbarth cyffredinol? Gallech ddefnyddio'r ward honno ar gyfer y cleifion ychwanegol hyn sy'n barod i'w rhyddhau, ond nad ydynt yn mynd adref.

Altaf, you'll understand that the real challenge is not actually infrastructure, it's staffing. So, that's the issue, and we know that the staffing issue is something that is challenging everywhere, but particularly social care. So, we want people to go home, we want that support in the community, and we're having difficulty with recruitment. Part of that difficulty in recruitment, I think we all accept, is that carers need to be paid more.

Gareth, I'm going to say this gently today, but I'm going to warn you that this noise is going to increase in volume every time you tell us to spend some money, because, actually, we would love to pay more to carers. But, actually, your Government has just made this a hell of a lot more difficult—a hell of a lot more difficult. That is going to be really problematic for us, and that's on top—

Altaf, fe fyddwch yn deall nad seilwaith yw'r her go iawn mewn gwirionedd, ond staffio. Felly, dyna'r broblem, ac fe wyddom fod y broblem staffio'n rhywbeth sy'n heriol ym mhobman, ond yn enwedig gofal cymdeithasol. Felly, rydym eisiau i bobl fynd adref, rydym eisiau'r gefnogaeth yn y gymuned, ac rydym yn cael anhawster recriwtio. Rwy'n credu ein bod i gyd yn derbyn mai rhan o'r broblem recriwtio yw bod angen talu mwy i ofalwyr.

Gareth, rwy'n mynd i ddweud hyn yn garedig heddiw, ond rwy'n mynd i'ch rhybuddio bod y sŵn yn mynd i gynyddu bob tro y dywedwch wrthym am wario arian, oherwydd byddem wrth ein boddau'n talu mwy i ofalwyr. Ond mewn gwirionedd, mae eich Llywodraeth newydd wneud hyn gryn dipyn yn anoddach—yn llawer iawn anoddach. Mae honno'n mynd i fod yn broblem fawr i ni, a hynny ar ben—

Will the Minister take an intervention?

A wnaiff y Gweinidog dderbyn ymyriad?

Thank you for that. It's not just carers I was talking about, it's social care staff pay, which are completely different things. And I do understand the complexities in social care compared to healthcare, because 99.9 per cent of healthcare services fall within the NHS, whereas in social care, it's fragmented and it's public sector, local authority and private sector. And I do understand those challenges, but I think if we can really work to achieve some parity of esteem between health and social care staff pay, I think we can really be a shining example to the rest of Europe and, indeed, the world. 

Diolch am hynny. Roeddwn i'n siarad am fwy na gofalwyr, roeddwn i'n siarad am gyflogau staff gofal cymdeithasol, sy'n bethau hollol wahanol. Ac rwy'n deall y cymhlethdodau mewn gofal cymdeithasol o'i gymharu â gofal iechyd, oherwydd daw 99.9 y cant o wasanaethau gofal iechyd o fewn y GIG, ond mewn gofal cymdeithasol, mae'n dameidiog ac mae'n cynnwys y sector cyhoeddus, awdurdodau lleol a'r sector preifat. Ac rwy'n deall yr heriau hynny, ond rwy'n credu os gallwn weithio i sicrhau parch cydradd rhwng cyflogau staff iechyd a staff gofal cymdeithasol, rwy'n credu y gallwn fod yn esiampl ddisglair i weddill Ewrop, a'r byd yn wir. 

16:50

Gareth, I would absolutely love to do that, that is absolutely our ambition as a Government, it's in our manifesto, that's what we want to see, it's just that your Government has just made that a hell of a lot more difficult. We've just had a £207 million bill for energy that we weren't expecting, and we've got a bit of a rebate from the UK Government—maybe £100 million—but that leaves me with £100 million gap that I've got to find from somewhere. So, that is a problem, and that's going to be a problem next year. We decide as a Government where that money's going to go. And we actually spend about 33 per cent more on social care in Wales than they do in England already, so I'd hate to imagine what state the care system is in England if they're spending 33 per cent less than us. Huw, you were mentioning that we've got to put this funding together—we have. We are putting £144 million where we expect local authorities and health boards to determine together how they're going to spend that money, and it's all in this space, it's all in this space, which is about how we address this delayed transfer of care bill. There are a couple of other issues in there as well—mental health and whatever—but a huge amount of it is about this delayed transfer of care. 

The community care capacity initiative that we have embarked on now is aiming to deliver additional system capacity from October this year until April 2023. This is something, again, that we've been working on over the whole summer, and the objective is to create extra step-down-to-recover beds and community equivalent provision, alongside taking additional measures to boost the community care workforce. And the focused effort for this winter is consistent with and complimentary to that urgent and emergency care programme of work, and I look forward to giving you a bit more detail on that, because we have been working really, really hard to prepare for building that additional community capacity over the winter. So, capacity within social care is an area that we absolutely are focused on. We are aware that the lack of sufficient numbers of social care staff is having an impact on patient discharge, and we've got a number of actions to deal with this. Additionally, each region has developed a plan to increase its community social care capacity and is co-ordinating recruitment drives at local and regional levels.

Now, a couple of people talked about the need for systems—digital systems—to work together, and what we have now is the Wales community care information system. We've already spent £30 million on this, and we intend to spend £12 million additional in the next three years. And what this is going to do is to integrate social services and community health data, so that they can have shared electronic records for health and care, so we get the systems talking to each other. We've got to get modern here; this is going to help us to get modern, and this is going to do some of issues that many of you were talking about, and getting data—why are people stuck and what is stopping them? I think that's really important. We've done a huge amount of work with local government to identify exactly why people are not moving in the system. Is it because their medicines haven't arrived? Is it because they haven't got transport home? Is it because there's nobody to look after them when they get home? So, all of those things, we've broken it all down and we're coding it and we're making sure that we know why people are stuck there.

Gareth, byddwn wrth fy modd yn gwneud hynny, dyna yw ein huchelgais ni fel Llywodraeth, mae yn ein maniffesto ni, dyna beth yr ydym yn awyddus i'w weld, ond mae eich Llywodraeth chi newydd wneud hynny'n llawer iawn anoddach. Rydym newydd gael bil o £207 miliwn ar gyfer ynni nad oeddem yn ei ddisgwyl, a chawsom dipyn bach o ad-daliad gan Lywodraeth y DU—£100 miliwn efallai—ond mae hynny'n gadael bwlch o £100 miliwn y mae'n rhaid i mi ddod o hyd iddo o rywle. Felly, mae honno'n broblem, ac mae'n mynd i fod yn broblem y flwyddyn nesaf. Rydym yn penderfynu fel Llywodraeth lle mae'r arian hwnnw'n mynd. Ac rydym yn gwario tua 33 y cant yn fwy ar ofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru nag a wnânt yn Lloegr yn barod, felly byddai'n gas gennyf ddychmygu ym mha gyflwr y mae'r system ofal yn Lloegr os ydynt yn gwario 33 y cant yn llai na ni. Huw, roeddech chi'n sôn bod rhaid inni roi'r cyllid hwn at ei gilydd—rydym wedi gwneud hynny. Rydym yn rhoi £144 miliwn lle rydym yn disgwyl i awdurdodau lleol a byrddau iechyd benderfynu gyda'i gilydd sut y maent yn mynd i wario'r arian hwnnw, ac mae'r cyfan yn y gofod hwn, mae'r cyfan yn y gofod hwn sy'n ymwneud â sut yr awn i'r afael â'r bil oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal. Mae un neu ddau o faterion eraill yno hefyd—iechyd meddwl a beth bynnag—ond mae llawer iawn ohono'n ymwneud ag oedi wrth drosglwyddo gofal. 

Nod y cynllun capasiti gofal cymunedol yr ydym wedi dechrau arno yn awr yw darparu capasiti ychwanegol yn y system o fis Hydref eleni tan fis Ebrill 2023. Unwaith eto, mae hyn yn rhywbeth y buom yn gweithio arno dros yr haf cyfan, a'r amcan yw creu gwelyau ychwanegol cam i lawr er mwyn adfer a darpariaeth gyfatebol yn y gymuned, ochr yn ochr â rhoi mesurau ychwanegol ar waith i hybu'r gweithlu gofal cymunedol. Ac mae'r ymdrech fawr ar gyfer y gaeaf hwn yn ategu ac yn gyson â'r rhaglen waith gofal brys ac argyfwng, ac rwy'n edrych ymlaen at roi mwy o fanylion i chi am hynny, oherwydd rydym wedi bod yn gweithio'n galed iawn ar baratoi ar gyfer adeiladu capasiti cymunedol ychwanegol dros y gaeaf. Felly, mae capasiti o fewn gofal cymdeithasol yn faes yr ydym yn canolbwyntio arno'n bendant iawn. Rydym yn ymwybodol fod diffyg niferoedd digonol o staff gofal cymdeithasol yn effeithio ar ryddhau cleifion, ac mae gennym nifer o gamau i ymdrin â hyn. Yn ogystal, mae pob rhanbarth wedi datblygu cynllun i gynyddu ei gapasiti gofal cymdeithasol cymunedol ac yn cydlynu ymgyrchoedd recriwtio ar lefel leol a rhanbarthol.

Nawr, siaradodd un neu ddau o bobl am yr angen am systemau—systemau digidol—i weithio gyda'i gilydd, a'r hyn sydd gennym yn awr yw system wybodaeth gofal cymunedol Cymru. Rydym eisoes wedi gwario £30 miliwn arni, ac rydym yn bwriadu gwario £12 miliwn ychwanegol yn ystod y tair blynedd nesaf. Ac mae hyn yn mynd i integreiddio gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a data iechyd cymunedol, fel y gallant rannu cofnodion electronig ar gyfer iechyd a gofal, er mwyn inni allu cael y systemau i siarad â'i gilydd. Rhaid inni fod yn fodern yma; mae hyn yn mynd i'n helpu i fod yn fodern, ac mae hyn yn mynd i wneud rhai o'r materion yr oedd llawer ohonoch chi'n siarad amdanynt, a chael data—pam fod pobl yn methu cael eu rhyddhau a beth sy'n eu hatal? Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n bwysig iawn. Rydym wedi gwneud llawer iawn o waith gyda llywodraeth leol i nodi'n union pam nad yw pobl yn symud yn y system. Ai oherwydd nad yw eu meddyginiaethau wedi cyrraedd? Ai oherwydd nad oes ganddynt gludiant adref? Ai am nad oes neb i ofalu amdanynt pan fyddant yn cyrraedd adref? Felly, yr holl bethau hynny, rydym wedi dadansoddi'r cyfan ac rydym yn ei godio ac rydym yn sicrhau ein bod yn gwybod pam fod pobl yn methu cael eu rhyddhau o'r ysbyty.

Minister, you need to conclude now.

Weinidog, mae angen i chi ddod i ben yn awr.

Thank you. Rhun, you asked about hospital beds. Well, we've got considerably more hospital beds in Wales, according to the Nuffield Trust, than they do in England. There are 270 beds per 100,000 in Wales; 170 beds per 100,000 in England. But what we're keen to do is to make sure that we get into that reablement space that you talked about. It's not just about hospital beds, it's about actually how do we get them out of hospital beds into the community.

Now, we have a report from the expert group on care, and that's going to be published soon. I think it's probably worth saying that whatever the ambitions were, we could be restricted in terms of our financial restrictions in future. So, we've just got to understand that, whatever the situation was before the summer, it has changed significantly. Julie Morgan, my colleague, has been working very hard on this as well. I think that that is enough from me, Chair. 

Diolch. Rhun, fe wnaethoch chi ofyn am welyau ysbytai. Wel, mae gennym gryn dipyn yn fwy o welyau ysbyty yng Nghymru, yn ôl Ymddiriedolaeth Nuffield, nag sydd ganddynt yn Lloegr. Mae 270 o welyau i bob 100,000 yng Nghymru; 170 gwely i bob 100,000 yn Lloegr. Ond rydym yn awyddus i sicrhau ein bod yn bwrw iddi gydag ailalluogi fel y nodoch chi. Mae'n ymwneud â mwy na gwelyau ysbyty, mae'n ymwneud â sut y mae eu cael allan o welyau ysbyty ac i'r gymuned.

Nawr, mae gennym adroddiad gan y grŵp arbenigol ar ofal, ac mae hwnnw'n mynd i gael ei gyhoeddi'n fuan. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn werth dweud, mae'n debyg, beth bynnag oedd yr uchelgeisiau, y gallem gael ein cyfyngu gan ein cyfyngiadau ariannol yn y dyfodol. Felly, mae'n rhaid inni ddeall hynny, beth bynnag oedd y sefyllfa cyn yr haf, mae wedi newid yn sylweddol. Mae fy nghyd-Aelod Julie Morgan wedi bod yn gweithio'n galed iawn ar hyn hefyd. Rwy'n meddwl bod hynny'n ddigon gennyf fi, Gadeirydd. 

16:55

Galwaf ar Russell George, Cadeirydd y pwyllgor, i ymateb i'r ddadl. 

I call on Russell George, Chair of the committee, to reply to the debate.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I thank all Members for taking part in this debate this afternoon, and I particularly thank—I think Gareth Davies made a point in his contribution of thanking the clerking team and the wider research team that support our committee’s work, so I’d like to put that on the record from myself as well.

I think that it was Rhun and Sarah who talked about the need for step-down beds, and the need to allocate funds for step-down beds fairly across health boards was a point that I think Sarah made. The Minister, in her contribution, referred to that, and I welcome some of the contribution that the Minister made in terms of building more community capacity. Also, I think that Rhun, in his opening remarks, talked about the importance of considering patient flow. I think that we do need to look in the round, and examine where the barriers lie, and of course remove and address some of those barriers.

Joyce mentioned, in her contribution perhaps why the committee has focused on hospital discharge. We had quite a discussion about this in committee: long-standing issues, social care capacity, health and social care integration, the workforce crisis that we are in. And Joyce highlighted, of course, the plight of unpaid carers as well, and some of the challenges that they have now. Joyce also put the question as well that we need to know more about why people are leaving the social care profession. I think that we know that to a certain extent, but I think that there is more that we can do to understand why that is.

Many Members mentioned those beds that—. I mentioned in my opening comments the ambulances queuing outside hospitals. I think that it was Huw who mentioned—and it was a good phrase—the queuing of ambulances as a symptom of patient flow. So, while I mentioned that, and we are all aware of those ambulances waiting outside hospitals, so patients and people who need those beds can’t get in there, there is the other side to this as well, which Joyce and Jenny referred to, about people’s health deteriorating when they are in hospital beds, and when they themselves need to go home for their own health as well, but in terms of the frustrations of people in those beds who can’t get home. Jenny gave an example of one of her constituents, but perhaps not all of those have got the skills to advocate for themselves to get home, which I think was the point that Jenny was making.

Many made the point as well about the need for people to get home as quickly as possible, but again, of course, we know that this then links to some of the issues that we have within care staffing levels. Gareth, importantly, mentioned the issues around data. This is part of the report, and some of the issues that we made some recommendations around. But he was also mentioning around the pay and working conditions as well. But, importantly, we need to make the profession more attractive, don’t we? And pointing out as well the exacerbated pressures that we will have this winter.

I thank Sarah for, quite rightly, pointing out the praise for organisations such as the Red Cross and Age Concern. I think that both the Minister in her response and Huw talked about the complex issues, and also rising demands and rising expectations as well, and that a whole-system approach is needed, which Huw and the Minister both referred to. 

In terms of the Minister’s response, the Minister talked about the need for people to get home quickly as well, but of course, people can’t get home if those services aren’t available to support them. I very much welcome, particularly as a rural constituency Member, some of the discussion from the Minister around having services as close to home as possible. I very much welcome that from a very rural perspective.

There is a huge need there for recruitment, and the drive for recruitment, and the Minister mentioned that in her closing remarks, and the huge campaign that is behind that. But what I would have liked to have known a little bit more about is how successful that campaign has been, and has that campaign been effective. I think it would have been good to know a little bit more about that. But I’m pleased with the Minister in terms of some of those integration problems I mentioned at the beginning, with GDPR and other systems working together. In my opening comments, I talked about fax machines still being not only used but bought in the NHS. It’s good to see the improvements in terms of the integration of systems are making good progress, and obviously as a committee we’ll keep a particularly close eye on that. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch. A gaf fi ddiolch i'r holl Aelodau am gymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma, a diolch yn arbennig—rwy'n credu i Gareth Davies wneud pwynt yn ei gyfraniad o ddiolch i'r tîm clercio a'r tîm ymchwil ehangach sy'n cefnogi gwaith ein pwyllgor, felly hoffwn gofnodi hynny gennyf fi hefyd.

Rwy'n credu mai Rhun a Sarah a ddywedodd fod angen gwelyau cam-i-lawr, a gwnaeth Sarah, rwy'n credu, y pwynt fod angen dyrannu arian ar gyfer gwelyau cam-i-lawr yn deg ar draws y byrddau iechyd. Cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog at hynny yn ei chyfraniad, ac rwy'n croesawu peth o'r cyfraniad a wnaeth y Gweinidog ar adeiladu mwy o gapasiti cymunedol. Hefyd, credaf i Rhun yn ei sylwadau agoriadol, sôn am bwysigrwydd ystyried llif cleifion. Rwy'n credu bod angen inni edrych arno yn ei gyfanrwydd, ac archwilio ble mae'r rhwystrau, a chael gwared ar, a mynd i'r afael â rhai o'r rhwystrau hynny wrth gwrs.

Soniodd Joyce yn ei chyfraniad pam fod y pwyllgor efallai wedi canolbwyntio ar ryddhau cleifion o'r ysbyty. Cawsom dipyn o drafodaeth am hyn yn y pwyllgor: materion hirsefydlog, capasiti gofal cymdeithasol, integreiddio iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, yr argyfwng yr ydym ynddo gyda'r gweithlu. Ac fe wnaeth Joyce dynnu sylw, wrth gwrs, at drafferthion gofalwyr di-dâl hefyd, a rhai o'r heriau sy'n eu hwynebu yn awr. Fe wnaeth Joyce hefyd nodi bod angen inni wybod mwy ynglŷn â pham fod pobl yn gadael y proffesiwn gofal cymdeithasol. Rwy'n meddwl ein bod yn gwybod hynny i ryw raddau, ond rwy'n meddwl bod mwy y gallwn ei wneud i ddeall pam fod hynny'n digwydd.

Soniodd llawer o'r Aelodau am y gwelyau hynny—. Soniais yn fy sylwadau agoriadol am yr ambiwlansys sy'n ciwio y tu allan i ysbytai. Rwy'n credu mai Huw a soniodd—ac roedd yn ymadrodd da—am ambiwlansys yn ciwio fel symptom o lif cleifion. Felly, wrth i mi grybwyll hynny, ac rydym i gyd yn ymwybodol o'r ambiwlansys sy'n aros y tu allan i ysbytai, ni all cleifion a phobl sydd angen y gwelyau fynd i mewn yno, mae yna ochr arall i hyn hefyd, y cyfeiriodd Joyce a Jenny ati, ynglŷn ag iechyd pobl yn dirywio pan fyddant mewn gwelyau ysbyty, a phan fydd angen iddynt fynd adref er lles eu hiechyd eu hunain hefyd, ond o ran rhwystredigaethau pobl yn y gwelyau hynny sy'n methu mynd adref. Soniodd Jenny am un o'i hetholwyr fel enghraifft, ond efallai nad oes gan bob un o'r rheini sgiliau i ddadlau dros gael mynd adref, sef y pwynt a wnaeth Jenny, rwy'n credu.

Fe wnaeth nifer y pwynt hefyd ynglŷn â'r angen i bobl fynd adref cyn gynted â phosibl, ond eto, wrth gwrs, gwyddom fod hyn wedyn yn cysylltu â rhai o'r problemau sydd gennym gyda lefelau staff gofal. Soniodd Gareth, yn bwysig, am y materion sy'n ymwneud â data. Mae hyn yn rhan o'r adroddiad, a rhai o'r materion y gwnaethom argymhellion yn eu cylch. Ond roedd hefyd yn sôn am y cyflog a'r amodau gwaith hefyd. Ond yn bwysig, mae angen inni wneud y proffesiwn yn fwy deniadol, onid oes? A thynnu sylw yn ogystal at y pwysau gwaeth a fydd gennym y gaeaf hwn.

Diolch i Sarah am dynnu sylw, yn gwbl briodol, at y ganmoliaeth i sefydliadau fel y Groes Goch ac Age Concern. Rwy'n credu bod y Gweinidog yn ei hymateb hithau a Huw wedi siarad am y materion cymhleth, a hefyd galwadau cynyddol a disgwyliadau cynyddol hefyd, a bod angen dull system gyfan, y cyfeiriodd Huw a'r Gweinidog ill dau ato. 

O ran ymateb y Gweinidog, soniodd y Gweinidog am yr angen i bobl fynd adref yn gyflym hefyd, ond wrth gwrs, ni all pobl fynd adref os nad yw'r gwasanaethau ar gael i'w cefnogi. Rwy'n croesawu'n fawr, yn enwedig fel Aelod dros etholaeth wledig, y drafodaeth gan y Gweinidog ynghylch cael gwasanaethau mor agos at adref â phosibl. Rwy'n croesawu hynny'n fawr o safbwynt gwledig.

Mae gwir angen recriwtio, ac ymgyrch recriwtio, a soniodd y Gweinidog am hynny yn ei sylwadau i gloi, a'r ymgyrch enfawr sydd y tu ôl i hynny. Ond yr hyn y byddwn i wedi hoffi gwybod ychydig mwy amdano yw pa mor llwyddiannus y bu'r ymgyrch honno, ac a fu'r ymgyrch honno'n effeithiol. Rwy'n meddwl y byddai wedi bod yn dda gwybod ychydig bach mwy am hynny. Ond rwy'n hapus fod y Gweinidog wedi sôn am rai o'r problemau integreiddio y soniais amdanynt ar y dechrau, gyda GDPR a systemau eraill yn gweithio gyda'i gilydd. Yn fy sylwadau agoriadol, soniais am beiriannau ffacs nid yn unig yn dal i gael eu defnyddio ond yn dal i gael eu prynu yn y GIG. Mae'n dda gweld y gwelliannau ar integreiddio systemau'n gwneud cynnydd da, ac yn amlwg fel pwyllgor byddwn yn cadw llygad hynod o agos ar hynny. Diolch yn fawr.

17:00

Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor? Oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Dwi ddim yn clywed gwrthwynebiad. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

The proposal is to note the committee’s report. Does any Member object? I don’t see any objections. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

7. Dadl Plaid Cymru: Y sector rhentu preifat
7. Plaid Cymru Debate: The private rental sector

Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Lesley Griffiths, a gwelliannau 2 a 3 yn enw Darren Millar. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-ddethol.

The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Lesley Griffiths, and amendments 2 and 3 in the name of Darren Millar. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected.

Eitem 7 sydd nesaf—dadl Plaid Cymru, y sector rhentu preifat. Galwaf ar Mabon ap Gwynfor i wneud y cynnig.

Item 7 is next, and that’s the Plaid Cymru debate on the private rented sector. I call on Mabon ap Gwynfor to move the motion.

Cynnig NDM8091 Siân Gwenllian

Cynnig bod y Senedd:

1. Yn nodi bod rhenti cynyddol yn ychwanegu at bwysau ar aelwydydd ledled Cymru wrth i'r argyfwng costau byw waethygu ymhellach.

2. Yn nodi bod gwerthoedd rhent cyfartalog Cymru wedi cynyddu i £926 y mis ym mis Mehefin 2022, sef cynnydd 15.1 y cant o'i gymharu â Mehefin 2021.

3. Yn nodi'r niferoedd cynyddol ar restrau aros am dai cymdeithasol, a diffyg stoc tai cymdeithasol.

4. Yn nodi bod diffyg darpariaeth o dai priodol a bod pobl yn wynebu digartrefedd pan fyddant yn cael eu troi allan.

5. Yn credu bod yn rhaid gwarchod tenantiaid ar frys y gaeaf hwn.

6. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i weithredu mesurau brys i:

a) rhewi rhenti yn y sector rhentu preifat;

b) gosod moratoriwm ar droi pobl allan.

Motion NDM8091 Siân Gwenllian

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that rising rents are adding to pressures on households across Wales as the cost-of-living crisis escalates further.

2. Notes that Wales’s average rental values have increased to £926 per month in June 2022, up by 15.1 per cent compared to June 2021.

3. Notes the increased numbers on social housing waiting lists, and the lack of social housing stock.

4. Notes that in the event of an eviction there is a lack of appropriate housing provision and people face homelessness.

5. Believes that tenants must be protected as a matter of urgency this winter.

6. Calls on the Welsh Government to implement emergency measures to:

a) freeze rents in the private rental sector;

b) place a moratorium on evictions.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd. Ar y cychwyn, dwi am ddatgan diddordeb sydd ar y cofnod cyhoeddus.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. At the outset, I want to declare an interest that is on the public register.

So, back in January, I put forward a motion on rent controls in the Siambr. The Conservatives, as expected, voted against it, while the Labour Party abstained, largely because of a promise that the Government had commissioned a paper to look into the idea that would feed into the White Paper on housing. But the White Paper continues to be some time off, while this motion looks to respond to an immediate crisis.

So, this Senedd has already accepted the principle that we need to see intervention in the rental market in order to defend tenants, many of whom are the most vulnerable people in our society. Contrary to noises from the Tories opposite, who believe in hoarding wealth and who claim that this proposal is anti-landlord, this proposal in front of us today, if it’s anti-anything, is anti-homelessness and is pro ensuring that everybody has a roof above their heads. Because here today we have a proposal to at least do something to help many of those threatened with homelessness this winter, as opposed to doing nothing. A rent freeze, as the name suggests, is merely a temporary action to tackle an immediate crisis. The same applies to a ban on evictions similar to the actions taken by this Government during the height of the COVID pandemic. Now, I understand the concerns about unintended consequences of taking these actions. There are concerns that rents will increase significantly at the end of the period, and that people will be made homeless. I get those concerns. But there are consequences to doing nothing, which are that many people will be made homeless this winter because of their inability to pay their rents. It stands to reason, therefore, that knowing that people will become homeless is an entirely intentional consequence of doing nothing. 

Only this Monday we marked World Homelessness Day, and the Minister was cutting ribbons to open the Crisis Skylight building in Swansea, which will help people at risk of homelessness. Well, I’m sorry to say that there’s a very real prospect that that centre will be inundated over the coming months with tenants that have been turned out because they can’t afford the rents on their homes. We’re in the midst of both a housing crisis and one of the worst cost-of-living crises in living memory. Like every financial crisis in the modern era, this crisis also has its roots in housing. In the case of private renters, all they do is work hard—sometimes more than one job—in order to transfer their hard-earned money to a private landlord.

Now, the Tories will argue that the housing crisis is the result of a dearth of supply. That’s correct, to a point. There is a chronic lack of social housing, which is the result of decades of underinvestment. But the irony of this argument seems to be lost on the Tories, because it completely undermines the most fundamental tenet of the open market dogma that they so fervently believe in, that of supply and demand. There’s plenty of demand but the supply side is falling woefully short. Supply and demand, just like trickle-down economics, just doesn’t work, and it’s a free market myth. This scarcity of available housing means that there’s a fierce competition for houses, with landlords able to increase rents knowing that people are desperate.

Now, of course, this isn’t true of all landlords, by any means. But consider this quote from an article by Rebecca Wilks for Voice.Wales this week, after she attended the Cardiff property investors event last week. She said:

Felly, nôl ym mis Ionawr, fe gyflwynais gynnig ar reoli rhenti yn y Siambr. Yn ôl y disgwyl, pleidleisiodd y Ceidwadwyr yn ei erbyn, tra bod y Blaid Lafur wedi ymatal, yn bennaf oherwydd addewid fod y Llywodraeth wedi comisiynu papur i edrych ar y syniad a fyddai'n bwydo i mewn i'r Papur Gwyn ar dai. Ond mae'r Papur Gwyn yn parhau i fod beth amser i ffwrdd, tra bod y cynnig hwn yn ymgais i ymateb i argyfwng uniongyrchol.

Felly, mae'r Senedd hon eisoes wedi derbyn yr egwyddor fod angen inni weld ymyrraeth yn y farchnad rentu er mwyn diogelu tenantiaid, gyda llawer ohonynt ymhlith y bobl fwyaf bregus yn ein cymdeithas. Yn groes i synau gan y Torïaid gyferbyn, sy'n credu mewn cronni cyfoeth ac sy'n honni bod y cynnig hwn yn wrth-landlordiaid, mae'r cynnig hwn sydd o'n blaenau heddiw, os yw'n wrth-unrhyw beth, yn wrth-ddigartrefedd ac o blaid sicrhau bod gan bawb do uwch eu pennau. Oherwydd yma heddiw mae gennym gynnig i wneud rhywbeth o leiaf i helpu llawer o'r rhai sydd dan fygythiad o fynd yn ddigartrefedd y gaeaf hwn, yn hytrach na gwneud dim. Dim ond cam dros dro yw rhewi rhenti, fel y mae'r enw'n awgrymu, i fynd i'r afael ag argyfwng uniongyrchol. Mae'r un peth yn wir am waharddiad ar droi pobl allan o'u cartrefi yn debyg i'r camau a gymerwyd gan y Llywodraeth hon pan oedd y pandemig COVID ar ei anterth. Nawr, rwy'n deall y pryderon am ganlyniadau anfwriadol cymryd y camau hyn. Mae yna bryderon y bydd rhenti'n cynyddu'n sylweddol ar ddiwedd y cyfnod, ac y bydd pobl yn cael eu gwneud yn ddigartref. Rwy'n deall y pryderon hynny. Ond mae canlyniadau i wneud dim, sef y bydd llawer o bobl yn cael eu gwneud yn ddigartref y gaeaf hwn oherwydd eu hanallu i dalu eu rhenti. Mae'n dilyn yn rhesymegol, felly, fod gwybod y bydd pobl yn mynd yn ddigartref yn ganlyniad cwbl fwriadol i wneud dim. 

Ddydd Llun diwethaf fe wnaethom nodi Diwrnod Digartrefedd y Byd, a bu'r Gweinidog yn torri rhubanau i agor adeilad Crisis Skylight yn Abertawe, a fydd yn helpu pobl sydd mewn perygl o fynd yn ddigartref. Wel, mae'n ddrwg gennyf ddweud bod perygl real iawn y bydd y ganolfan honno'n cael ei boddi dros y misoedd nesaf gan denantiaid a fydd wedi cael eu troi allan am nad ydynt yn gallu fforddio'r rhenti ar eu cartrefi. Rydym ynghanol argyfwng tai ac un o'r argyfyngau costau byw gwaethaf mewn cof. Fel pob argyfwng ariannol yn yr oes fodern, mae gwreiddiau'r argyfwng hwn ym maes tai hefyd. Yn achos rhentwyr preifat, y cyfan a wnânt yw gweithio'n galed—mwy nag un swydd weithiau—er mwyn trosglwyddo eu harian prin i landlord preifat.

Nawr, bydd y Torïaid yn dadlau bod yr argyfwng tai yn ganlyniad i brinder cyflenwad. Mae hynny'n gywir, hyd at bwynt. Mae yna ddiffyg cronig o dai cymdeithasol, canlyniad degawdau o danfuddsoddi. Ond mae'n ymddangos nad yw'r Torïaid yn deall eironi'r ddadl hon, oherwydd mae'n llwyr danseilio'r elfen fwyaf sylfaenol yn nogma'r farchnad agored y maent yn credu mor daer ynddi, sef cyflenwad a galw. Mae digon o alw ond mae'r ochr gyflenwi yn methu'n druenus. Yn union fel economeg o'r brig i lawr, nid yw cyflenwad a galw'n gweithio, ac mae'n un o fytholegau'r farchnad rydd. Mae'r prinder tai'n golygu bod cystadleuaeth ffyrnig am dai, gyda landlordiaid yn gallu cynyddu rhenti gan wybod bod pobl mewn sefyllfa enbyd.

Nawr, nid yw hyn yn wir am bob landlord, o bell ffordd. Ond ystyriwch y dyfyniad hwn o erthygl gan Rebecca Wilks ar gyfer Voice.Wales yr wythnos hon, ar ôl iddi fynychu digwyddiad ar gyfer buddsoddwyr eiddo Caerdydd yr wythnos diwethaf. Dywedodd hyn:

'speaker Adam Jones advised landlords to issue “smaller, regular rent increases” instead of large, more sporadic hikes'.

It's tactics like this that have led to Wales having the largest increase in rents anywhere in the UK, except for London. In some cases, we're hearing of rents doubling and families left bereft.

Now, we hear that private landlords are leaving the sector with claims that the added burden of regulations are making things difficult for them. Ignore those claims. Firstly, regulations are there to protect the well-being of tenants. What we're seeing is property owners cashing in on inflated property prices, and, in some cases, cashing in after taking advantage of Government funds to make their properties more habitable and suitable for tenants, and then selling them for a profit or placing them on Airbnb. So, once again, what we're seeing is public funds being transferred directly into private bank accounts. Surely, you can see that there's something rotten in this system. So, we have a scarcity of available properties, which is adding to the problem and leading to massive increases in rents in some cases. 

In Wales, average rents have increased by over 15 per cent year on year. This is far more than inflation, and can't be justified. Two years ago, many private renters were spending over a third of their incomes on rents, and here in Cardiff tenants were spending closer to 40 per cent of their take-home pay on rents. This was two years ago, and, since then, we've seen double-digit rent rises. 

Our local authorities are already inundated with people presenting themselves as homeless and requiring temporary accommodation. They don't have the capacity to take on any more, but that's the situation they face this winter. Many millions of pounds are spent on assisting people who find themselves in this position, requiring temporary accommodation or homeless, and council budgets are completely blown. By doing nothing and letting people find themselves homeless, this Government will have to find more money to give councils to cope with the increase in homeless numbers. 

Yesterday, the First Minister challenged my colleague Adam Price to find the money to pay for nurse pay increases. Well, the challenge is thrown right back at you. Can you tell us where the money will come from to fund the massive increases in homelessness costs that will come as a consequence of inaction? A rent freeze is a temporary measure. It could be enacted immediately and last for the period of this cost-of-living crisis, which economists expect to be around two years. It could be reviewed on a six-monthly basis. You could then introduce a rent cap immediately afterwards in order to avoid that fear of some landlords massively hiking up their rents.

These are actions common to many other countries. In France, rent rises have been capped at 3.5 per cent for a year as part of a Government package on the cost-of-living crisis. In Denmark, rents have been temporarily decoupled from the consumer price index, and increase capped at 4 per cent over two years. Limitations on rent settings have been imposed in Paris and Lyon, and state-wide rent growth restrictions have been introduced in California since January 2020, and are to remain in force until 2031. In Berlin, rents were frozen for five years, starting in February 2020, and Ireland is looking to introduce a ban on evictions this winter.

The regional parliament in Brussels has developed an innovative scheme where they link rent increases to a property's energy efficiency, so low energy-efficiency houses are not allowed to raise their rents at all, when 30 per cent of houses in Brussels have very poor energy efficiencies, and this will help the cost-of-living crisis and incentivise landlords to improve the energy efficiency of their properties. So, these are some ideas that could be taken forward if you don't accept this proposal in front of us today. These are steps that you could look at here in Wales.

Scotland has introduced a rent freeze and a ban on evictions following a campaign by Mercedes Villalba and her Labour colleagues. The Labour Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, is calling for a rent freeze. Labour's shadow housing Secretary in England, Lisa Nandy, is looking at giving councils the right to introduce rent freezes in England. So, will Labour in Wales follow their comrades across the UK? The Tories in Westminster, of course, have already introduced a freeze—a freeze on local housing allowance. Local housing allowance has been frozen for two years, yet in those two years rents have increased more than at any other time.

I've referred before to the exceptional work of the Bevan Foundation, who conducted two in-depth studies into local housing allowance, and the fact that in Wales, over the summer period, there were only 60 properties available throughout the whole of Wales at LHA levels. As a Government, you've agreed that the freeze in LHA allowance should be lifted. That's an easy call, because you can blame Westminster, it's their fault, but we can introduce our own freeze here to allow those tenants to live in their own homes by freezing rents. That's a tangible action that we can take to respond to Westminster's callousness. So, a message to our Labour colleagues: be brave, be bold, don't dilly-dally around. The choice is stark: take action and freeze rents, or do nothing and let people freeze this winter.

'cynghorodd y siaradwr Adam Jones landlordiaid i gyhoeddi "codiadau rhent llai yn rheolaidd" yn lle codiadau mawr, mwy ysbeidiol'.

Tactegau fel hyn sydd wedi arwain at sicrhau mai gan Gymru y mae'r codiadau rhent mwyaf yn unrhyw le yn y DU, oni bai am Lundain. Mewn rhai achosion, clywn am renti'n dyblu a theuluoedd yn ofidus iawn.

Nawr, clywn fod landlordiaid preifat yn gadael y sector gyda honiadau fod baich ychwanegol rheoliadau'n gwneud pethau'n anodd iddynt. Anwybyddwch yr honiadau hynny. Yn gyntaf, mae'r rheoliadau yno i ddiogelu lles tenantiaid. Yr hyn a welwn yw perchnogion eiddo'n elwa ar brisiau eiddo chwyddedig, ac mewn rhai achosion, yn elwa ar ôl manteisio ar arian y Llywodraeth i wneud eu heiddo'n fwy addas a gweddus i fyw ynddynt i denantiaid, drwy eu gwerthu am elw neu eu rhoi ar Airbnb. Felly, unwaith eto, yr hyn a welwn yw arian cyhoeddus yn cael ei drosglwyddo'n uniongyrchol i gyfrifon banc preifat. Gallwch weld bod rhywbeth yn bwdr yn y system hon. Felly, mae gennym brinder eiddo sydd ar gael, sy'n ychwanegu at y broblem ac yn arwain at godiadau rhent enfawr mewn rhai achosion. 

Yng Nghymru, mae rhenti ar gyfartaledd wedi cynyddu dros 15 y cant o un flwyddyn i'r llall. Mae hyn yn llawer mwy na chwyddiant, ac ni ellir ei gyfiawnhau. Ddwy flynedd yn ôl, roedd llawer o rentwyr preifat yn gwario dros draean o'u hincwm ar renti, ac yma yng Nghaerdydd roedd tenantiaid yn gwario'n agosach at 40 y cant o'u cyflogau ar renti. Roedd hyn ddwy flynedd yn ôl, ac ers hynny, rydym wedi gweld cynnydd dau ddigid yn y rhenti. 

Mae ein hawdurdodau lleol eisoes yn cael nifer o bobl yn dod atynt yn ddigartref ac angen llety dros dro. Nid oes ganddynt gapasiti i ymdrin â rhagor, ond dyna'r sefyllfa sy'n eu hwynebu y gaeaf hwn. Mae miliynau lawer o bunnoedd yn cael ei wario ar gynorthwyo pobl sy'n mynd i'r sefyllfa hon, sydd angen llety dros dro neu sy'n ddigartref, ac mae cyllidebau'r cyngor wedi'u disbyddu'n llwyr. Trwy wneud dim a gadael i bobl fynd yn ddigartref, bydd rhaid i'r Llywodraeth hon ddod o hyd i fwy o arian i'w roi i gynghorau i ymdopi â'r cynnydd yn nifer y digartref. 

Ddoe, fe wnaeth y Prif Weinidog herio fy nghyd-Aelod Adam Price i ddod o hyd i'r arian i dalu am godiadau cyflogau nyrsys. Wel, caiff yr her ei thaflu'n ôl atoch chi. A allwch chi ddweud wrthym o ble y daw'r arian i ariannu'r cynnydd enfawr yng nghostau digartrefedd a fydd yn deillio o ddiffyg gweithredu? Mesur dros dro yw rhewi rhenti. Gellid ei weithredu ar unwaith i bara dros gyfnod yr argyfwng costau byw hwn y mae economegwyr yn disgwyl y bydd yn para am oddeutu dwy flynedd. Gellid ei adolygu bob chwe mis. Fe allech chi gyflwyno cap rhent yn syth wedyn er mwyn osgoi'r ofn y bydd rhai landlordiaid yn codi eu rhenti'n aruthrol.

Mae'r rhain yn gamau sy'n gyffredin i lawer o wledydd eraill. Yn Ffrainc, mae codiadau rhent wedi'u capio ar 3.5 y cant am flwyddyn fel rhan o becyn y Llywodraeth ar yr argyfwng costau byw. Yn Nenmarc, mae rhenti wedi cael eu datgysylltu dros dro o'r mynegai prisiau defnyddwyr, a chynnydd wedi'i gapio ar 4 y cant dros ddwy flynedd. Mae cyfyngiadau ar eiddo rhent wedi'u gosod ym Mharis a Lyon, ac mae cyfyngiadau ar gynnydd rhent ledled y dalaith wedi'u cyflwyno yng Nghaliffornia ers mis Ionawr 2020, ac maent i barhau mewn grym tan 2031. Yn Berlin, cafodd rhenti eu rhewi am bum mlynedd, gan ddechrau ym mis Chwefror 2020, ac mae Iwerddon yn bwriadu cyflwyno gwaharddiad ar droi allan y gaeaf hwn.

Mae'r senedd ranbarthol ym Mrwsel wedi datblygu cynllun arloesol lle maent yn cysylltu codiadau rhent ag effeithlonrwydd ynni eiddo, felly ni chaniateir i dai nad ydynt yn defnyddio ynni'n effeithlon i godi eu rhenti o gwbl, pan fo gan 30 y cant o dai ym Mrwsel lefelau effeithlonrwydd ynni gwael iawn, a bydd hyn yn helpu'r argyfwng costau byw ac yn ysgogi landlordiaid i wella effeithlonrwydd ynni eu heiddo. Felly, dyma rai syniadau y gellid eu datblygu os nad ydych yn derbyn y cynnig sydd o'n blaenau heddiw. Dyma gamau y gallech edrych arnynt yma yng Nghymru.

Mae'r Alban wedi cyflwyno rhewi rhenti a gwaharddiad ar droi pobl allan yn dilyn ymgyrch gan Mercedes Villalba a'i chydweithwyr Llafur. Mae Maer Llafur Llundain, Sadiq Khan, yn galw am rewi rhenti. Mae Ysgrifennydd tai yr wrthblaid yn Lloegr, Lisa Nandy, yn ystyried rhoi hawl i gynghorau gyflwyno rhewi rhenti yn Lloegr. Felly, a fydd Llafur yng Nghymru yn dilyn eu cymheiriaid ledled y DU? Mae'r Torïaid yn San Steffan, wrth gwrs, eisoes wedi cyflwyno rhewi—rhewi'r lwfans tai lleol. Mae'r lwfans tai lleol wedi'i rewi ers dwy flynedd, ond eto yn y ddwy flynedd honno mae rhenti wedi codi mwy nag ar unrhyw adeg arall.

Rwyf wedi cyfeirio o'r blaen at waith eithriadol Sefydliad Bevan, a gynhaliodd ddwy astudiaeth fanwl i'r lwfans tai lleol, a'r ffaith dim ond 60 eiddo a oedd ar gael ledled Cymru gyfan ar lefelau lwfans tai lleol dros gyfnod yr haf,. Fel Llywodraeth, rydych chi wedi cytuno y dylid rhoi'r gorau i rewi'r lwfans tai lleol. Mae honno'n alwad hawdd, oherwydd gallwch feio San Steffan, eu bai hwy ydyw, ond gallwn gyflwyno ein rhewi ein hunain yma i ganiatáu i'r tenantiaid hynny fyw yn eu cartrefi eu hunain drwy rewi rhenti. Mae honno'n weithred ymarferol y gallwn ei gwneud i ymateb i ddiffyg tosturi San Steffan. Felly, neges i'n cyd-Aelodau Llafur: byddwch yn ddewr, byddwch yn feiddgar, peidiwch â llusgo traed. Mae'r dewis yn amlwg: gweithredu a rhewi rhenti, neu wneud dim a gadael i bobl rewi y gaeaf hwn.

17:10

Rwyf wedi dethol y tri gwelliant i'r cynnig. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-ddethol. Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd i gynnig yn ffurfiol welliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Lesley Griffiths.

I have selected the three amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. I call on the Minister for Climate Change to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths. 

Gwelliant 1—Lesley Griffiths

Dileu popeth ar ôl pwynt 1 a rhoi yn ei le:

Yn credu bod Llywodraeth y DU yn methu â deall ei chyfrifoldebau ynghylch mynd i’r afael â’r argyfwng costau byw, ac yn galw ar i Lywodraeth y DU lynu wrth ei hymrwymiad i godi budd-daliadau yn unol â chwyddiant, gan gynnwys cynyddu cyfraddau’r lwfans tai lleol yng Nghymru. 

Yn cydnabod: 

a) bod tenantiaid cymdeithasol yn cael eu diogelu rhag codiadau rhent y gaeaf hwn;

b) o 1 Rhagfyr bydd y Ddeddf Rhentu Cartrefi yn cynnig rhagor o amddiffyniad i denantiaid rhag cael eu troi allan;

c) bod mwy na 25,000 o bobl sydd wedi cael eu hunain yn ddigartref wedi cael eu helpu i gael llety dros dro ers dechrau’r pandemig.

Yn croesawu:

a) y £6 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol y gellir ei ddefnyddio i helpu i dalu ôl-ddyledion rhent neu i ddarparu gwarant rent;

b) y buddsoddiad o £65 miliwn mewn rhaglen gyfalaf ar gyfer llety trosiannol i gynyddu nifer y tai cymdeithasol, gan sicrhau bod gan ragor o bobl le y gellir ei alw’n gartref. 

Amendment 1—Lesley Griffiths

Delete all after point 1 and replace with:

Believes that the UK Government is failing to grasp their responsibilities to tackle the cost-of-living crisis and calls for the UK Government to honour its commitment to uplift benefits in line with inflation, including an immediate unfreezing and increase to local housing allowance rates in Wales.

Recognises that:

a) social tenants in Wales are protected from rent rises this winter;

b) from 1 December the Renting Homes Act will offer tenants greater protection from eviction;

c) more than 25,200 people, presenting as homeless, have been supported into temporary accommodation since the start of the pandemic.

Welcomes:

a) the additional £6m to local authorities that can be used to support payment of rent arrears or providing a rent guarantee;

b) the £65m investment in transitional accommodation capital programme to increase the amount of social housing, ensuring more people have a place to call home.

Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.

Amendment 1 moved.

Formally. Formally.

Yn ffurfiol. Yn ffurfiol.

It's okay—I heard.

Mae'n iawn—fe glywais.

Galwaf ar Janet Finch-Saunders i gynnig gwelliannau 2 a 3, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar.

I call on Janet Finch-Saunders to move amendments 2 and 3, tabled in the name of Darren Millar.

Gwelliant 2—Darren Millar

Dileu pwynt 6 a rhoi yn ei le:

Yn nodi'r symiau cynyddol y mae awdurdodau lleol yn eu gwario ar lety dros dro.

Amendment 2—Darren Millar

Delete point 6 and replace with:

Notes the spiralling cost of temporary accommodation spend for local authorities.

Gwelliant 3—Darren Millar

Ychwanegu pwyntiau newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Yn nodi'r nifer cynyddol o hysbysiadau troi allan adran 21 sy'n cael eu cyflwyno gan landlordiaid preifat.

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:

a) gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i wella'r broses o hyrwyddo'r cynllun benthyciadau cartref gwag er mwyn dychwelyd rhagor o dai gwag i fod yn gartrefi;

b) adolygu a chyflymu'r broses o wneud cais cynllunio er mwyn galluogi datblygwyr i gyrraedd targedau adeiladu tai;

c) adolygu pa gamau y gellir eu cymryd i drosi lleoedd gwag uwchben unedau manwerthu i fod yn dai fforddiadwy, wedi'u lleoli'n ganolog.

Amendment 3—Darren Millar

Add new points at end of motion:

Notes the increasing number of section 21 eviction notices being issued by private landlords.

Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) work with local authorities to better promote the empty home loan scheme returning more empty houses into homes;

b) review and speed up the planning application process to enable developers to meet house-building targets;

c) review what steps can be taken to convert empty space above retail units into affordable, centrally located housing.

Cynigiwyd gwelliannau 2 a 3.

Amendments 2 and 3 moved.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I refer Members to my declaration of interest form in terms of property ownership.

I rise once again to contribute to another debate that references and tries to do down the private rental sector. Now, let me say from the start and without any doubt that it is a matter of fact that private landlords are a very large, significant contributor to providing good quality and safe homes across Wales. The majority of these landlords are signed up with Rent Smart Wales, and they take their role as home owners and landlords very seriously and professionally. Speak to any one of them and they will tell you, 'All we want is to find a good tenant who will look after my asset—the property—and pay their rent so that it does make it worth while.'

Now, this debate today I believe is coming as a consequence of continued failure of the Welsh Labour Government since the start of devolution, and you in Plaid Cymru are not free from this; you have been in Government here in the last 23 years. House building has collapsed over the past 23 years—the number of dwellings completed between 2021-22 9.3 per cent lower than before the pandemic. You're not even halfway yet to achieving the target of 12,000 new homes a year. The Welsh Labour Government has also failed to build social housing in Wales, and it's a fact that because of what you're calling for now there's nervousness growing in the registered landlord agencies. Only around 9,000 housing association and local authority homes were built between 2010 and 2019. Your failure so far has resulted in 67,000 households stuck on housing waiting lists in Wales. So, don't say people are going to become homeless—it's already happening.

Temporary accommodation spend has rocketed from £5 million in Wales in 2018-19 to over £20 million in 2021; 25,200 people placed in temporary accommodation. Let me tell you, these are not nice, cosy little homes—these are rooms in golf clubs, bed and breakfasts and hotels. Whole hotels have been taken over in Llandudno, in a tourist destination, to provide a roof over the heads of our vulnerable families.

The private rental sector market is voting with its feet. These valuable home providers are leaving the market. In the National Residential Landlords Association's latest landlord confidence index, landlords in Wales have the lowest levels of confidence when compared to landlords in all English regions. NRLA's member survey data shows that 26 per cent of landlords in Wales have sold over the last 12 months; 49 per cent are planning to sell a property in the next 12 months. Landlord repossessions have been steadily increasing in Wales in the past year, up to 150 in the second quarter of 2022, compared to only 78 at the end of 2021.

So out of touch are Plaid Cymru—[Interruption.]—yes—and Welsh Labour, that you have thought it reasonable—and you keep echoing it, and it's a shame, shame on you—you think it's reasonable to introduce further burdens through the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016. Plaid Cymru calling for freezing rents and contemplating a moratorium on evictions, even when there are serious rent arrears—why would any landlord stay, giving an asset over to someone to live in, and then have serious—

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n cyfeirio'r Aelodau at fy ffurflen datganiad o fuddiant ar berchnogaeth eiddo.

Rwy'n sefyll eto i gyfrannu at ddadl arall sy'n cyfeirio ac yn ceisio lladd ar y sector rhentu preifat. Nawr, gadewch imi ddweud o'r dechrau a heb unrhyw amheuaeth ei bod yn ffaith bod landlordiaid preifat yn cyfrannu'n helaeth ac yn sylweddol iawn at ddarparu cartrefi o ansawdd da a diogel ar draws Cymru. Mae'r mwyafrif o'r landlordiaid hyn wedi cofrestru gyda Rhentu Doeth Cymru, ac maent o ddifrif ac yn broffesiynol ynglŷn â'u rôl fel perchnogion cartrefi a landlordiaid. Siaradwch ag unrhyw un ohonynt ac fe fyddant yn dweud wrthych, 'Y cyfan a ddymunwn yw dod o hyd i denant da a fydd yn gofalu am fy ased—yr eiddo—a thalu eu rhent fel ei fod yn ei wneud yn werth yr ymdrech.'

Nawr, rwy'n credu bod y ddadl hon heddiw yn ganlyniad i fethiant parhaus Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru ers dechrau datganoli, ac nid ydych chi ym Mhlaid Cymru yn ddi-fai; rydych wedi bod yn y Llywodraeth yma yn y 23 mlynedd diwethaf. Gwelwyd adeiladu tai'n chwalu dros y 23 mlynedd diwethaf—mae nifer yr anheddau a gwblhawyd rhwng 2021-22 9.3 y cant yn is na chyn y pandemig. Nid ydych chi hanner ffordd eto hyd yn oed at gyrraedd y targed o 12,000 o gartrefi newydd y flwyddyn. Mae Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru hefyd wedi methu adeiladu tai cymdeithasol yng Nghymru, ac oherwydd yr hyn y galwch amdano yn awr mae'n ffaith bod nerfusrwydd ar gynnydd ymhlith yr asiantaethau landlordiaid cofrestredig. Dim ond tua 9,000 o gartrefi cymdeithasau tai ac awdurdodau lleol a gafodd eu hadeiladu rhwng 2010 a 2019. Hyd yma, mae eich methiant wedi arwain at 67,000 o aelwydydd ar restrau aros am dai yng Nghymru. Felly, peidiwch â dweud bod pobl yn mynd i fod yn ddigartref—mae eisoes yn digwydd.

Mae gwariant ar lety dros dro wedi cynyddu o £5 miliwn yng Nghymru yn 2018-19 i fwy na £20 miliwn yn 2021; cafodd 25,200 o bobl eu gosod mewn llety dros dro. Gadewch i mi ddweud wrthych, nid cartrefi bach braf, clyd yw'r rhain—maent yn ystafelloedd mewn clybiau golff, gwely a brecwast a gwestai. Mae gwestai cyfan yn Llandudno, cyrchfan i dwristiaid, yn darparu to uwch eu pennau i'n teuluoedd bregus.

Mae'r farchnad sector rhentu preifat yn pleidleisio gyda'i thraed. Mae'r darparwyr cartrefi gwerthfawr hyn yn gadael y farchnad. Ym mynegai hyder landlordiaid diweddaraf y Gymdeithas Genedlaethol Landlordiaid Preswyl, landlordiaid yng Nghymru sydd â'r lefelau hyder isaf o gymharu â landlordiaid ym mhob un o ranbarthau Lloegr. Mae data arolwg o aelodau'r gymdeithas yn dangos bod 26 y cant o landlordiaid yng Nghymru wedi gwerthu dros y 12 mis diwethaf; mae 49 y cant yn bwriadu gwerthu eiddo yn y 12 mis nesaf. Mae adfeddiannu gan landlordiaid wedi bod yn cynyddu'n gyson yng Nghymru yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, hyd at 150 yn ail chwarter 2022, o gymharu â dim ond 78 ar ddiwedd 2021.

Mae Plaid Cymru gymaint allan o gysylltiad—[Torri ar draws.]—ydy—a Llafur Cymru, nes eich bod wedi meddwl ei bod hi'n rhesymol—ac rydych yn dal i'w leisio, a chywilydd arnoch—rydych chi'n meddwl ei bod hi'n rhesymol cyflwyno beichiau pellach drwy Ddeddf Rhentu Cartrefi (Cymru) 2016. Mae Plaid Cymru'n galw am rewi rhenti ac ystyried moratoriwm ar droi allan, hyd yn oed pan geir ôl-ddyledion rhent difrifol—pam y byddai unrhyw landlord yn aros, yn trosglwyddo ased i rywun fyw ynddo, ac yna'n cael—

Will you take an intervention?

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

I've heard you refer to houses as 'assets' twice already. Isn't this the crux of the problem with this issue, that houses are being viewed as assets? Houses are homes for families. Will you not accept that?

Fe'ch clywais yn cyfeirio at dai fel 'asedau' ddwy waith yn barod. Onid dyma graidd y broblem gyda'r mater hwn, fod tai'n cael eu hystyried fel asedau? Cartrefi i deuluoedd yw tai. Oni wnewch chi dderbyn hynny?

17:15

Yes, but bear in mind that a lot of these homes have been bought, you know, and are subject to mortgages.

Ie, ond cofiwch fod llawer o'r cartrefi hyn wedi cael eu prynu, wyddoch chi, a morgeisi arnynt.

To make money, so they're not for families.

I wneud arian, felly nid ydynt ar gyfer teuluoedd.

No. I'm sorry, no. The policies alone—

Na. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, na. Mae'r polisïau'n unig—

Can we not have a dialogue? There's not a dialogue between Members.

A gawn ni beidio â chael deialog? Nid oes deialog i fod rhwng Aelodau.

No, thank you. These two policies alone will turbocharge the tsunami of landlords leaving the sector and a section 21 notice is issued. Already, between 2018-19 and 2021-22, there have been 20,070 landlords deactivating from Rent Smart Wales. It is policies such as yours that are actually now spooking the market. Evidence shows that an eviction ban delays the threat of homelessness rather than seeking to prevent it. Following the lifting of the previous ban, landlord possessions in England and Wales increased by 207 per cent. These are not my figures; these are documented stats. A study by Assist Inventories of 10,000 landlords found that 45 per cent planned to move away from long-term tenancies, with a further 41 per cent saying they're going to consider it.

Then we have this nightmare of rent controls. Prior to the Scottish Parliament passing their legislation, the Scottish Association of Landlords warned that landlords were just selling their properties in light of the proposals. If we look further afield, in San Francisco, where the housing supply then fell by 15 per cent, while in Berlin rent shot up by almost 10 per cent between 2015 and 2017. So, there we have it.

I'm not going to say Welsh Labour, because it's not their debate this, but I was very pleased with Hefin David on Sharp End on Monday evening, when he spoke common sense and said that he's been approached by councils—

Na, diolch. Bydd y ddau bolisi hyn yn unig yn cymell tswnami o landlordiaid i adael y sector a chyhoeddir hysbysiad adran 21. Eisoes, rhwng 2018-19 a 2021-22, mae 20,070 o landlordiaid wedi datgysylltu o Rhentu Doeth Cymru. Polisïau fel eich un chi sy'n dychryn y farchnad yn awr. Mae tystiolaeth yn dangos bod gwaharddiad ar droi allan yn gohirio'r bygythiad o ddigartrefedd yn hytrach na cheisio ei atal. Yn sgil codi'r gwaharddiad blaenorol, cynyddodd lefelau adfeddiannu eiddo landlordiaid yng Nghymru a Lloegr 207 y cant. Nid fy ffigyrau i yw'r rhain; mae'r rhain yn ystadegau sydd wedi'u dogfennu. Canfu astudiaeth gan Assist Inventories o 10,000 o landlordiaid fod 45 y cant yn bwriadu troi cefn ar denantiaethau hirdymor, gyda 41 y cant arall yn dweud eu bod yn mynd i ystyried gwneud hynny.

Wedyn mae gennym hunllef rheoli rhenti. Cyn i Senedd yr Alban basio eu deddfwriaeth, rhybuddiodd Cymdeithas Landlordiaid yr Alban fod landlordiaid yn gwerthu eu heiddo yn sgil yr argymhellion. Os edrychwn ymhellach i ffwrdd, yn San Francisco, lle disgynnodd y cyflenwad tai 15 y cant wedyn, tra bod rhenti yn Berlin wedi saethu i fyny bron i 10 y cant rhwng 2015 a 2017. Felly, dyna ni.

Nid wyf yn mynd i ddweud Llafur Cymru, am nad eu dadl hwy yw hon, ond roeddwn yn hapus iawn fod Hefin David ar Sharp End nos Lun wedi siarad synnwyr cyffredin gan ddweud bod cynghorau wedi cysylltu ag ef—

Janet, you need to conclude now, please.

Janet, mae angen i chi ddod i ben yn awr, os gwelwch yn dda.

—who were saying, 'Please do not freeze rents.'

I'm outlining the truth, and have repeated several times that you and your policies will push people into temporary accommodation. I genuinely invite fellow Members of this Parliament to accept reality, let us all work together, cross party, to tackle the housing crisis in its entirety. So, there, we can a make start today by backing the amendments tabled in the name of Darren Millar MS. Diolch.

—i ddweud, 'Peidiwch â rhewi rhenti.'

Rwy'n nodi'r gwir, ac rwyf wedi ailadrodd sawl gwaith y byddwch chi a'ch polisïau yn gwthio pobl i mewn i lety dros dro. Rwy'n rhoi gwahoddiad diffuant i gyd-Aelodau'r Senedd hon dderbyn realiti, gadewch i bawb ohonom weithio gyda'n gilydd, yn drawsbleidiol, i fynd i'r afael â'r argyfwng tai yn ei gyfanrwydd. Felly, gallwn ddechrau heddiw drwy gefnogi'r gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar AS. Diolch.

Our motion today is one that seeks to ensure social justice and protection from the worst economic storm in decades. It's about taking action now, saving people from misery and destitution now. It's about insisting that it is protecting the most vulnerable in society that must be the focus of a just Government, not protecting the assets and incomes of those who won't have to face the anguish of trying to keep food on the table or losing their homes.

People who rent their homes are more likely to live in poverty or be on low incomes. They are less likely to have savings or assets that they can use to cushion economic shocks or short-term financial difficulties. These are the groups of people that will be most anxious about being able to afford their rent as everyday costs rise. And I'm sure all Members would agree that no-one should have to be worried about losing their shelter—not their assets; their shelter—during the coldest time of the year.

So, remember, 35 per cent of social renters and 21 per cent of private renters report they struggle to afford the basics, compared to people who own their own home or have a mortgage. Nearly 10,000 households in Wales were threatened with homelessness last year, and more than one in 10 people in Wales are worried about losing their home in the coming months. That has to be our focus these coming months. Mainly those in the private rental sector—

Mae ein cynnig heddiw yn un sy'n ceisio sicrhau cyfiawnder cymdeithasol ac amddiffyniad rhag y storm economaidd waethaf ers degawdau. Mae'n ymwneud â gweithredu yn awr, gan achub pobl rhag dioddefaint ac amddifadedd yn awr. Mae'n ymwneud â mynnu mai diogelu'r rhai mwyaf bregus mewn cymdeithas ddylai fod yn ffocws i Lywodraeth gyfiawn, nid gwarchod asedau ac incwm y rhai na fydd yn gorfod wynebu'r gofid o geisio cadw bwyd ar y bwrdd neu golli eu cartrefi.

Mae pobl sy'n rhentu eu cartrefi'n fwy tebygol o fod yn byw mewn tlodi neu fod ar incwm isel. Maent yn llai tebygol o fod â chynilion neu asedau y gallant eu defnyddio i leddfu sioc economaidd neu drafferthion ariannol tymor byr. Dyma'r grwpiau o bobl a fydd yn fwyaf pryderus ynglŷn â gallu fforddio eu rhent wrth i gostau bob dydd godi. Ac rwy'n siŵr y byddai pob Aelod yn cytuno na ddylai neb orfod poeni am golli eu lloches—nid eu hasedau; eu lloches—yn ystod adeg oeraf y flwyddyn.

Felly, cofiwch, mae 35 y cant o rentwyr cymdeithasol a 21 y cant o rentwyr preifat yn dweud eu bod yn ei chael hi'n anodd fforddio'r pethau sylfaenol, o'i gymharu â phobl sy'n berchen ar eu cartref eu hunain neu sydd â morgais. Roedd bron i 10,000 o aelwydydd yng Nghymru dan fygythiad o ddigartrefedd y llynedd, ac mae mwy nag un o bob 10 o bobl yng Nghymru yn poeni am golli eu cartref yn ystod y misoedd nesaf. Rhaid i hynny fod yn ffocws i ni yn y misoedd nesaf. Yn bennaf y rhai yn y sector rhentu preifat—

Will you take an intervention?

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

No, I think you've spoken enough, Janet. Those in the private rental sector face increasing rent inflation. On top of this, remember, 45 per cent of households in Wales are now trapped in fuel poverty, and 98 per cent of low-income households are living in fuel poverty, having to spend more than 20 per cent of their income on energy. And these figures were published before inflation hit record levels, pushing up costs of everyday items. Dirprwy Lywydd, there is simply nowhere for these families to turn. There's no slack in the budget.

The Welsh Government has tried to offer different programmes of support where possible, which, of course, is to be commended, but the truth is that the payments on offer are not going to touch the sides and they are not going to help everybody in need. It may be mild out there today, but be in no doubt that winter is already here, a winter that will have a terrible impact on the health and well-being of too many Welsh families. And the worst affected will be those who already suffer socioeconomic disadvantage. The worst affected will be people with disabilities; women; single parents; people from black, Asian and minority ethnic backgrounds; people who have physical and mental health problems; families with children; younger people; LGBTQ+ people—groups of people who already face barriers as regards housing, employment opportunities, income gaps, health inequalities, higher costs.

The cost-of-living crisis has to be seen in the same terms of the COVID crisis, the lessons of which were hard learnt by this Government. But the phrase I remember being used by Ministers, when they understood, although too late for some families, that radical and bold action needed to be taken to save lives in the face of Westminster inaction was, 'Go hard, go early.' We need to see the same approach again with this crisis. We need to go hard and go early. The Government have the powers to protect the people of Wales from the brunt of the harm of Tory ideological indifference in respect of protecting those who are at an increased risk of economic hardship, debt and homelessness this winter, because there are circumstances in emergencies and crises where it is necessary to bring in temporary emergency measures, and this is especially needed by those groups who are most disadvantaged by the combined housing and cost-of-living crises. The director of public health at Cwm Taf Morgannwg health board, Dr Kelechi Nnoaham, said today:

'The cost of living crisis is going to do exactly what the Covid crisis did'.

The impact of the crisis was deeper on the most deprived areas of Wales, the death rate twice as high. It's that same inequality, those same vulnerabilities, that the cost-of-living crisis is deepening. The suffering of people in those groups and communities will again be greater.

Na, rwy'n meddwl eich bod chi wedi siarad digon, Janet. Mae'r rhai yn y sector rhentu preifat yn wynebu chwyddo rhenti cynyddol. Ar ben hyn, cofiwch fod 45 y cant o aelwydydd Cymru bellach yn byw mewn tlodi tanwydd, ac mae 98 y cant o aelwydydd sydd ar incwm isel yn byw mewn tlodi tanwydd, gan orfod gwario mwy nag 20 y cant o'u hincwm ar ynni. Ac fe gyhoeddwyd y ffigyrau hyn cyn i chwyddiant gyrraedd y lefelau uchaf erioed, gan wthio costau eitemau bob dydd i fyny. Ddirprwy Lywydd, yn syml iawn, nid oes gan y teuluoedd hyn unman i droi. Nid oes unrhyw lacrwydd yn y gyllideb.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ceisio cynnig rhaglenni cymorth gwahanol lle bo modd, ac mae hynny i'w ganmol wrth gwrs, ond y gwir amdani yw nad yw'r taliadau sy'n cael eu cynnig yn mynd i gyffwrdd yr ochrau ac nid ydynt yn mynd i helpu pawb sydd mewn angen. Efallai ei bod yn fwyn allan yno heddiw, ond nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth nad yw'r gaeaf yma eisoes, gaeaf a fydd yn effeithio’n enbyd ar iechyd a llesiant gormod o deuluoedd yng Nghymru. A'r rhai yr effeithir arnynt waethaf fydd y rhai sydd eisoes yn dioddef anfantais economaidd-gymdeithasol. Y rhai yr effeithir arnynt waethaf fydd pobl ag anableddau; menywod; rhieni sengl; pobl o gefndiroedd du, Asiaidd a lleiafrifol ethnig; pobl sydd â phroblemau iechyd corfforol a meddyliol; teuluoedd â phlant; pobl iau; pobl LHDTC+—grwpiau o bobl sydd eisoes yn wynebu rhwystrau gyda thai, cyfleoedd cyflogaeth, bylchau incwm, anghydraddoldebau iechyd, costau uwch.

Rhaid gweld yr argyfwng costau byw yn yr un golau ag argyfwng COVID, ac fe gafodd y gwersi caled eu dysgu gan y Llywodraeth hon yn sgil yr argyfwng hwnnw. Ond yr ymadrodd y cofiaf Weinidogion yn ei ddefnyddio, pan ddaethant i ddeall, er yn rhy hwyr i rai teuluoedd, fod angen gweithredu radical a beiddgar i achub bywydau yn wyneb diffyg gweithredu gan San Steffan oedd, 'Gweithredwch yn gadarn, gweithredwch yn gynnar.' Mae angen inni weld yr un ymagwedd eto gyda'r argyfwng hwn. Mae angen gweithredu'n gadarn a gweithredu'n gynnar. Mae gan y Llywodraeth bwerau i amddiffyn pobl Cymru rhag y gwaethaf o'r niwed yn sgil difaterwch ideolegol Torïaidd mewn perthynas â diogelu'r rhai sydd mewn mwy o berygl o galedi economaidd, dyled a digartrefedd y gaeaf hwn, oherwydd bod yna amgylchiadau mewn argyfyngau lle mae angen cyflwyno mesurau brys dros dro, ac mae angen hyn yn arbennig ar y grwpiau mwyaf difreintiedig yn sgil argyfyngau cyfunol tai a chostau byw. Dywedodd cyfarwyddwr iechyd y cyhoedd bwrdd iechyd Cwm Taf Morgannwg, Dr Kelechi Nnoaham heddiw:

'Mae'r argyfwng costau byw yn mynd i wneud yn union yr un peth ag a wnaeth argyfwng Covid'.

Roedd effaith yr argyfwng yn ddyfnach ar ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig Cymru, a'r gyfradd farwolaethau ddwywaith mor uchel. Yr un anghydraddoldeb, yr un gwendidau hynny, a gaiff eu dyfnhau gan yr argyfwng costau byw. Bydd dioddefaint pobl yn y grwpiau a'r cymunedau hynny'n fwy unwaith eto.

17:20

Will you give way? Just building on this point, during the COVID crisis, what did we do? We shielded the most vulnerable. Isn't that what these proposals for a rent freeze and a temporary emergency ban on evictions are designed to do? They are to shield the most vulnerable in the context of this cost-of-living crisis.

A wnewch chi ildio? Os caf adeiladu ar y pwynt hwn, yn ystod argyfwng COVID, beth a wnaethom? Gwarchod y rhai mwyaf bregus. Onid dyna y mae'r cynigion hyn ar rewi rhenti a gwaharddiad brys dros dro ar droi allan wedi'u cynllunio i'w wneud? Maent yno i warchod y mwyaf bregus yng nghyd-destun yr argyfwng costau byw.

Exactly, and the health aspect of this has been pointed out today by the Royal College of Physicians, who have said, of course, that poverty causes illness and poor health. The cost-of-living crisis is likely to have a significant impact on the NHS, just as the COVID crisis did. Tenant associations such as ACORN, Living Rent, and Generation Rent agree that the measures brought in by the Scottish Government are a good way to help protect those most at risk from the crisis. As we heard, London mayor Sadiq Khan's response to what's happened in Scotland is that a rent freeze is exactly what Londoners need. Plaid Cymru believe it's what the people of Wales need.

If we wait too long, if we don't act now, then it will be too late to prevent those who are most disadvantaged in our society from the crippling and devastating effect of unaffordable rent and the terror of homelessness. The Welsh Government does not have the power—

Yn hollol, ac mae'r elfen iechyd yn hyn wedi'i nodi heddiw gan Goleg Brenhinol y Meddygon, sydd wedi dweud, wrth gwrs, fod tlodi'n achosi salwch ac iechyd gwael. Mae'r argyfwng costau byw yn debygol o gael effaith sylweddol ar y GIG, yn union fel y gwnaeth argyfwng COVID. Mae cymdeithasau tenantiaid fel ACORN, Living Rent, a Generation Rent yn cytuno bod y mesurau a gyflwynwyd gan Lywodraeth yr Alban yn ffordd dda o helpu i ddiogelu'r rhai sydd fwyaf mewn perygl yn sgil yr argyfwng. Fel y clywsom, ymateb maer Llundain Sadiq Khan i'r hyn sydd wedi digwydd yn yr Alban yw mai rhewi rhenti yw'r union beth sydd ei angen ar Lundeinwyr. Mae Plaid Cymru'n credu mai dyna sydd ei angen ar bobl Cymru.

Os arhoswn yn rhy hir, os na weithredwn yn awr, fe fydd hi'n rhy hwyr i atal y rhai mwyaf difreintiedig yn ein cymdeithas rhag effaith andwyol rhent anfforddiadwy ac arswyd digartrefedd. Nid oes gan Lywodraeth Cymru rym—

Sioned, you need to conclude now, please.

Sioned, mae angen i chi ddod i ben yn awr, os gwelwch yn dda.

Yes. The Welsh Government does not have the power to stop bills soaring. It can't ensure that the Tory Westminster Government increases benefits in line with inflation. But it can take action to give people security that they can stay in their homes, that budgets already stretched to breaking point don't snap due to rent increases, while the cold winds of this terrible economic storm chill the people of Wales to the bone.

Iawn. Nid oes gan Lywodraeth Cymru rym i atal biliau rhag codi i'r entrychion. Ni all sicrhau bod Llywodraeth Dorïaidd San Steffan yn cynyddu budd-daliadau yn unol â chwyddiant. Ond fe all weithredu i roi sicrwydd i bobl y gallant aros yn eu cartrefi, nad yw cyllidebau sydd eisoes wedi'u hymestyn i'r eithaf yn chwalu oherwydd codiadau rhent, tra bod gwyntoedd oer y storm economaidd ofnadwy hon yn oeri pobl Cymru hyd at fêr eu hesgyrn.

I thank Plaid Cymru for bringing this debate forward today. I think we need to talk about housing much more often than we do. I believe housing is important, and until we deal with housing effectively to create a balance between supply and demand, there will continue to be a problem. A lot of the problems we have in education and health stem from inadequate housing. There are two answers to the housing crisis, using actions that have previously worked. The one I prefer is to build council houses at the scale required to meet demand. This worked between the 1950s and the 1970s. If we were representative as a Senedd, at least 15 and probably 20 of us would have been brought up in council housing. We would have Members who understood its importance.

Obviously, the Conservatives have a different view. That is to abandon planning controls. This worked in the 1930s—I'm not saying it wouldn't work—but there are substantial environmental costs. I mean, do the Conservatives really want to see large-scale uncontrolled development in areas of outstanding natural beauty, national parks, rural and seaside areas? Because that's what abandoning planning regulations actually means. Look at the areas that you cherish as green and pleasant. Do the Conservatives want to develop on these? Of course, there is no problem that the Westminster Conservatives—

Diolch i Blaid Cymru am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon heddiw. Rwy'n credu bod angen inni siarad am dai yn llawer amlach nag y gwnawn. Rwy'n credu bod tai yn bwysig, a nes ein bod yn ymdrin â thai'n effeithiol i greu cydbwysedd rhwng cyflenwad a galw, bydd problemau'n dal i fodoli. Mae llawer o'r problemau sydd gennym ym maes addysg ac iechyd yn deillio o dai annigonol. Mae dau ateb i'r argyfwng tai, gan ddefnyddio camau sydd wedi gweithio o'r blaen. Yr un rwy'n ei ffafrio yw adeiladu tai cyngor ar y raddfa sydd ei hangen i ateb y galw. Fe weithiodd hyn rhwng y 1950au a'r 1970au. Pe baem yn gynrychioliadol fel Senedd, byddai o leiaf 15 a mwy na thebyg 20 ohonom wedi cael ein magu mewn tai cyngor. Byddai gennym Aelodau a fyddai'n deall eu pwysigrwydd.

Yn amlwg, mae gan y Ceidwadwyr farn wahanol. A''r farn honno yw rhoi'r gorau i reolaeth gynllunio. Fe weithiodd hyn yn y 1930au—nid wyf yn dweud na fyddai'n gweithio—ond mae costau amgylcheddol sylweddol i wneud hynny. Hynny yw, a yw'r Ceidwadwyr o ddifrif eisiau gweld datblygu di-reolaeth ar raddfa fawr mewn ardaloedd o harddwch naturiol eithriadol, parciau cenedlaethol, ardaloedd gwledig a glan môr? Oherwydd dyna mae cefnu ar reoliadau cynllunio yn ei olygu mewn gwirionedd. Edrychwch ar yr ardaloedd sy'n annwyl i chi am eu bod yn wyrdd a dymunol. A yw'r Ceidwadwyr eisiau datblygu ar y rhain? Wrth gwrs, nid oes unrhyw broblem y mae Ceidwadwyr San Steffan—

Will you take an intervention?

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

You're talking about supply and demand. We know for a fact that we need about 12,000 houses completed every year in the Welsh property market. At the moment, at best, the Government is completing about 6,000, maybe as low as 5,000 in a bad year. We're not even getting close to what the demand is. Surely you recognise that as a problem, and calling for considered planning control permissions is something that's to be welcomed, so long as the infrastructure's put in place, such as doctors' surgeries, schools and transport infrastructures. So, it's not about going over beautiful places; it's about having a sensible planning policy that meets the demand.

Rydych chi'n siarad am gyflenwad a galw. Gwyddom fod angen tua 12,000 o dai wedi eu cwblhau bob blwyddyn ym marchnad eiddo Cymru. Ar hyn o bryd, ar y gorau, mae'r Llywodraeth yn cwblhau tua 6,000, efallai mor isel â 5,000 mewn blwyddyn wael. Nid ydym yn cyrraedd yn agos at y galw. Rhaid eich bod yn cydnabod bod honno'n broblem, a bod galw am ganiatadau rheoli cynllunio ystyrlon yn rhywbeth i'w groesawu, cyn belled â bod y seilwaith yn cael ei roi yn ei le, fel meddygfeydd, ysgolion a seilwaith trafnidiaeth. Felly, nid yw'n fater o adeiladu dros lefydd prydferth; mae'n ymwneud â chael polisi cynllunio synhwyrol sy'n ateb y galw.

17:25

I think you've just made a number of builders very happy, knowing you would welcome large-scale building in Cowbridge and the Vale of Glamorgan.

The UK Government's freeze on local housing allowances means that most people and families receiving local housing allowance rates face a gap between rates paid and their rent. This increases the risk of homelessness, as it becomes more and more difficult for people to keep up with paying rent, on top of covering essentials, such as food and energy bills.

Over the last 50 years, the housing mix has changed. There's been a decline in council housing and a large increase in the number of privately rented properties. The privately rented sector is now the second most common tenure after owner occupation. There's been a growth in the number of private landlords. Yes, I realise that all private landlords are not modern-day Rachmans. In fact, most private landlords are good landlords and treat their tenants well. A lot of these only own one property, and many of these were bought via a mortgage. Social tenants in Wales are already protected over the winter from rent increases, as social rents are set annually, with the next change in social rents not due until April 2023. Registered social landlords are facing huge pressures, especially where they have to refinance loans.

Superficially, freezing rents in the private rental sector is attractive, but it freezes rents as they are now, and some rents are too high and others too low, relative to properties of the same type. With interest rates rising, it could lead to properties having to be sold. If what happens is that the properties are sold and then bought by first-time buyers, that would be a great thing. Reducing the number of privately rented properties, increasing the number of owner occupiers: good. But, unfortunately, we have the wild west of housing, Airbnb, and that is what worries me, that people will take these houses from renting to families and put them into Airbnb. This removes the property from the housing market. When properties being sold are used as Airbnb in east Swansea, then this has to be a problem all around Wales.

Can I just quote from Crisis, which is something Mabon spoke about earlier, who are the major housing charity? An immediate flood of notices to quit and letters notifying of rent increases are what they fear would happen with what Plaid Cymru are putting forward today. Crisis would advise learning from the recent announcements of similar legislation in Scotland. During the delay between announcement and enactment, colleagues across the housing sector in Scotland reported tenants being issued with notices to quit and letters notifying them of rent increases.

I thought rent controls. I want rent officers to be brought back. Because landlords can evict tenants with a section 21 notice once the fixed term expires, Welsh tenants lack any real rent controls. The landlord can ask them to pay a higher rent and evict them, or find new tenants if they refuse. This demonstrates the ease with which tenants can be evicted and is intimately linked to the lack of rent controls.

A moratorium on evictions looks attractive, but could simply postpone evictions until it's lifted. If tenants decide not to pay rent to their landlords, they may accrue serious rent arrears that then provide a ground for eviction. From 1 December, new tenancies in Wales will be subject to a six-month no-fault eviction ban, and the Welsh Government are consulting on extending this to existing tenancies. I just think no-fault evictions should be ended now. Never should anybody be asked to leave for no fault. That is fundamentally wrong and it breaks the balance between landlord and tenant.

I'll finally come back to supply. With a shortage of supply and a strong demand, rents rise. The only effective solution is the large-scale building of council houses. It worked before and it'll work again.

Rwy'n credu eich bod newydd wneud nifer o adeiladwyr yn hapus iawn, o wybod y byddech yn croesawu adeiladu ar raddfa fawr yn y Bont-faen a Bro Morgannwg.

Mae rhewi lwfansau tai lleol gan Lywodraeth y DU yn golygu bod y rhan fwyaf o bobl a theuluoedd sy'n derbyn lwfansau tai lleol yn wynebu bwlch rhwng y cyfraddau a delir a'u rhent. Mae hyn yn cynyddu'r risg o ddigartrefedd, wrth iddi fynd yn fwyfwy anodd i bobl ddal i fyny â thalu rhent, yn ogystal â thalu am bethau hanfodol, fel bwyd a biliau ynni.

Dros y 50 mlynedd diwethaf, mae'r cymysgedd tai wedi newid. Gwelwyd gostyngiad yn y nifer o dai cyngor a chynnydd mawr yn y nifer o dai sy'n cael eu rhentu'n breifat. Y sector rhentu preifat bellach yw'r ail fath mwyaf cyffredin o ddeiliadaeth ar ôl perchen-feddiannaeth. Cafwyd cynnydd yn nifer y landlordiaid preifat. Ydw, rwy'n sylweddoli nad yw pob landlord preifat yn Rachmans cyfoes. Mewn gwirionedd, mae'r rhan fwyaf o landlordiaid preifat yn landlordiaid da ac yn trin eu tenantiaid yn dda. Nid yw llawer o'r rhain ond yn berchen ar un eiddo, a phrynwyd llawer ohonynt drwy forgais. Mae tenantiaid cymdeithasol yng Nghymru eisoes wedi'u diogelu dros y gaeaf rhag codiadau rhent, gan fod rhenti cymdeithasol yn cael eu gosod yn flynyddol, gyda'r newid nesaf i renti cymdeithasol ddim i ddod tan Ebrill 2023. Mae landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig yn wynebu pwysau enfawr, yn enwedig lle mae'n rhaid iddynt ail-gyllido benthyciadau.

Yn arwynebol, mae rhewi rhenti yn y sector rhentu preifat yn ddeniadol, ond mae'n rhewi rhenti fel y maent ar hyn o bryd, ac mae rhai rhenti'n rhy uchel ac eraill yn rhy isel, o'i gymharu ag eiddo o'r un math. Gyda chyfraddau llog yn codi, gallai olygu bod eiddo'n gorfod cael ei werthu. Os mai'r hyn sy'n digwydd yw bod yr eiddo'n cael ei werthu ac yna'n cael ei brynu gan brynwyr tro cyntaf, byddai hynny'n beth gwych. Lleihau nifer yr eiddo sy'n cael ei rentu'n breifat, gan gynyddu nifer y perchen-feddianwyr: da. Ond yn anffodus, mae gennym orllewin gwyllt y maes tai, Airbnb, a dyna sy'n fy mhoeni i, y bydd pobl yn troi'r tai hyn o fod yn cael eu rhentu gan deuluoedd i fod yn eiddo Airbnb. Mae hyn yn tynnu'r eiddo o'r farchnad dai. Pan fydd eiddo sy'n cael eu gwerthu'n cael eu defnyddio fel Airbnb yn nwyrain Abertawe, rhaid bod hon yn broblem ledled Cymru gyfan.

A gaf fi roi dyfyniad gan Crisis, yr elusen dai fawr y siaradodd Mabon amdani yn gynharach? Maent yn ofni gweld llif uniongyrchol o hysbysiadau ymadael a llythyrau'n hysbysu am godiadau rhent yn sgil yr hyn y mae Plaid Cymru yn ei gyflwyno heddiw. Byddai Crisis yn awgrymu y dylid dysgu o gyhoeddiadau diweddar ynghylch deddfwriaeth debyg yn Yr Alban. Yn ystod yr oedi rhwng cyhoeddi a deddfu, dywedodd cydweithwyr ar draws y sector tai yn yr Alban fod tenantiaid yn cael hysbysiadau ymadael a llythyrau'n eu hysbysu am godiadau rhent.

Fe feddyliais am reoli rhenti. Rwyf eisiau gweld swyddogion rhent yn dod yn ôl. Am y gall landlordiaid droi tenantiaid allan gyda hysbysiad adran 21 pan fydd y tymor sefydlog yn dod i ben, nid oes gan denantiaid Cymru unrhyw fesurau rheoli rhenti go iawn. Gall y landlord ofyn iddynt dalu rhent uwch a'u troi allan, neu ddod o hyd i denantiaid newydd os ydynt yn gwrthod. Mae hyn yn dangos pa mor hawdd yw hi i denantiaid gael eu troi allan ac mae'n gysylltiedig iawn â diffyg mesurau rheoli rhenti.

Mae moratoriwm ar droi allan yn edrych yn ddeniadol, ond efallai mai gohirio troi allan hyd nes y dôi i ben yn unig a wnâi. Os bydd tenantiaid yn penderfynu peidio â thalu rhent i'w landlordiaid, gallent gronni ôl-ddyledion rhent difrifol sydd wedyn yn creu sail ar gyfer troi allan. O 1 Rhagfyr ymlaen, bydd tenantiaethau newydd yng Nghymru yn ddarostyngedig i waharddiad ar droi allan heb fai am chwe mis, ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymgynghori ar ymestyn hyn i gynnwys tenantiaethau sy'n bodoli eisoes. Rwyf fi o'r farn y dylid dod â throi allan heb fai i ben yn awr. Ni ddylid gofyn i unrhyw un adael heb fai. Mae hynny'n sylfaenol anghywir ac mae'n torri'r cydbwysedd rhwng landlord a thenant.

Fe ddof yn ôl at y cyflenwad i orffen. Gyda'r cyflenwad yn brin a'r galw'n fawr, mae rhenti'n codi. Yr unig ateb effeithiol yw adeiladu tai cyngor ar raddfa fawr. Fe weithiodd o'r blaen ac fe wnaiff weithio eto.

We've heard already today how the cost-of-living crisis and the housing crisis have a greater impact on certain sections of society or communities than others. As Plaid Cymru's spokesperson for older people and communities, I'm aware just how difficult winter can be at the best of times for older people, and this certainly isn't the best of times. Older people in Wales are amongst those most likely to be affected by the cost-of-living crisis. Given we have a higher proportion of older people living here in Wales, compared to other nations in the UK, this is a particular worry.

For many older people, turning the heating down or off is not an option, and they will be feeling the higher energy costs more than most in the coming months. I hope we can all agree here that no older person in our communities should be at risk of homelessness this winter. Older people should also be able to retire with dignity, with enough income to live comfortably and happily. It is an enduring disgrace that this has been denied to many women in Wales due to the Tory Government's ill-advised and ill-mannered pension equalisation policy, which has pushed many into poverty. This policy was rushed through, and it left the retirement plans of so many women in Wales in absolute tatters. 

The rent freeze and eviction ban we are calling for today would not only protect older people from homelessness, but it will ensure that, in the face of rent inflation, older people can remain connected to their communities and live around the people who support them. This will be essential during winter months to prevent issues such as falls and cold home-related illnesses. If older people have to downgrade to less appropriate housing due to rising prices, they may experience social isolation, illnesses, fuel poverty and even winter deaths. A lot of these consequences can be avoided if the measures in our motion today were to be implemented. 

Moving on, the cost of living and housing crisis will negatively impact on the wider community without emergency measures. Rent inflation threatens to push lower-income tenants out of the neighbourhoods they live in and potentially contribute to the gentrification that we have already seen elsewhere. Another consequence would be increasing commuting times, as well as having potentially psychological and social consequences on the individuals and communities affected. 

Finally, research from the United States has found that rent controls can be particularly effective at preventing the displacement of racial minorities and can help foster diversity in affected areas. If we are to do right by the most vulnerable people in Wales, we need to go further than what we are currently doing. Please support this motion. Diolch yn fawr.

Clywsom yn barod heddiw sut y mae'r argyfwng costau byw a'r argyfwng tai yn cael mwy o effaith ar rai rhannau o gymdeithas neu gymunedau nag eraill. Fel llefarydd Plaid Cymru ar bobl hŷn a chymunedau, rwy'n ymwybodol o ba mor anodd y gall y gaeaf fod ar yr adegau gorau i bobl hŷn, ac yn sicr nid yw hon yn un o'r adegau gorau. Mae pobl hŷn yng Nghymru ymhlith y rhai sydd fwyaf tebygol o gael eu heffeithio gan yr argyfwng costau byw. O ystyried bod gennym gyfran uwch o bobl hŷn yn byw yma yng Nghymru, o'i gymharu â gwledydd eraill y DU, mae hwn yn ofid mawr.

I lawer o bobl hŷn, nid yw gostwng y gwres neu ei ddiffodd yn opsiwn, a byddant yn teimlo effaith y costau ynni uwch yn fwy na'r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn y misoedd nesaf. Rwy'n gobeithio y gallwn i gyd gytuno yma na ddylai unrhyw berson hŷn yn ein cymunedau fod mewn perygl o fod yn ddigartref y gaeaf hwn. Dylai pobl hŷn allu ymddeol gydag urddas hefyd, gyda digon o incwm i fyw'n gyfforddus ac yn hapus. Mae'n warth parhaus fod llawer o fenywod yng Nghymru wedi'u hamddifadu o hyn oherwydd polisi cydraddoli pensiwn annoeth ac anfoesgar y Llywodraeth Dorïaidd, sydd wedi gwthio llawer i fyw mewn tlodi. Cafodd y polisi ei ruthro drwodd, a chwalodd gynlluniau ymddeol cymaint o fenywod yng Nghymru. 

Byddai rhewi rhenti a'r gwaharddiad ar droi allan fel y galwn amdano heddiw nid yn unig yn diogelu pobl hŷn rhag digartrefedd, bydd yn sicrhau, yn wyneb chwyddo rhenti, y gall pobl hŷn barhau i fod â chysylltiad â'u cymunedau a byw o amgylch y bobl sy'n eu cefnogi. Bydd hyn yn hanfodol yn ystod misoedd y gaeaf i atal pethau fel cwympiadau ac afiechydon sy'n gysylltiedig â chartrefi oer. Os oes raid i bobl hŷn israddio i dai llai priodol oherwydd prisiau cynyddol, efallai y byddant yn wynebu unigrwydd cymdeithasol, afiechydon, tlodi tanwydd a hyd yn oed marwolaethau gaeaf. Gellir osgoi llawer o'r canlyniadau hyn pe bai'r mesurau yn ein cynnig heddiw'n cael eu gweithredu. 

Gan symud ymlaen, bydd yr argyfwng costau byw a thai'n effeithio'n negyddol ar y gymuned ehangach heb fesurau brys. Mae chwyddo rhenti'n bygwth gwthio tenantiaid incwm is allan o'r cymdogaethau y maent yn byw ynddynt a chyfrannu o bosibl at y boneddigeiddio a welwyd eisoes mewn mannau eraill. Canlyniad arall fyddai cynyddu amseroedd cymudo, yn ogystal â chanlyniadau seicolegol a chymdeithasol o bosibl ar yr unigolion a'r cymunedau yr effeithir arnynt. 

Yn olaf, mae ymchwil yn yr Unol Daleithiau wedi canfod y gall rheoli rhenti fod yn arbennig o effeithiol am atal dadleoli lleiafrifoedd hiliol a gall helpu i feithrin amrywiaeth mewn ardaloedd sydd wedi'u heffeithio. Os ydym am wneud y peth iawn i'n pobl fwyaf bregus yng Nghymru, mae angen inni fynd ymhellach na'r hyn a wnawn ar hyn o bryd. Cefnogwch y cynnig hwn. Diolch yn fawr.

17:30

Can I thank Plaid Cymru for bringing forward today's really important debate on the private rented sector? I was really pleased that, on these benches, we were able to support the vast majority of the proposals that you've put forward today. But, of course, we aren't able to support point 6. In our proposal, we propose to delete that, which is obviously in relation to the freeze on rents in the private sector. But, I am really pleased that we also have been able to provide some alternative solutions to some of the challenges that are out there at the moment, and I will be exploring those a little bit further in my contribution today.

First of all, I would just like to come onto the point that Mabon ap Gwynfor mentioned in his opening, which is about some of the unintended consequences around a rent freeze. As we've seen in Scotland, where those rent freezes have already been introduced, this has already provided some unintended and negative consequences for tenants and for those seeking to rent property, because the supply of rental housing is reducing whilst demand is growing. Indeed, Scotland's largest house builder has now announced that they are going to halt investment in the private rental sector, partly because of these measures. Also on unintended consequences, in Ireland, where, as mentioned, there are already forms of rent control in place, we've seen recently chaotic photographs on social media of hundreds of people queuing up to try to get hold of rental properties in places like Dublin at the moment. So, clearly, it's not the panacea to solve everything, certainly, at the moment.

The other point that Mabon ap Gwynfor highlighted in opening, which others have mentioned as we've gone through this evening, is the mismatch between supply and demand on privately rented houses. It's quite clear that a rent freeze would do nothing at all to address supply and demand challenges. So, it's really important and, whilst it might be easier to try to dismiss some of the unintended consequences, they are very real if a rent freeze is something that Government wanted to support and progress with. 

As is outlined in amendment 2 today of our proposals, local authorities are being faced with some spiralling costs of temporary accommodation, and there are some significant challenges there that need to be addressed. It struck me that the Welsh Government actually provided local authorities with around £10 million of the COVID tenancy hardship grant scheme, but only 2.3 per cent of that money was actually ever used. So, I wonder, as a quick fix to help in the immediate term, if the Welsh Government could consider using the significant underspend on supporting those who are struggling fairly immediately. There is a key role that our councils can play in helping to tackle some of these challenges. We know that empty homes in Wales are a significant issue; we know that there are more empty homes than there are second homes in Wales. So, we propose that there should be more work done to promote the empty home loan scheme, to make sure more empty homes are being returned into occupied homes. There's a real opportunity there to make a quick difference.

The other issue I'd like to touch on today has already been mentioned, actually; it comes back to this supply and demand issue around seeing more houses being built. It's already been mentioned that there needs to be around 12,000 homes built in Wales every single year, and those numbers are never even getting close in Wales at the moment. That is across all of Wales. It's a fairly simple equation in some ways: more homes enable fewer people to be homeless; it's not rocket science. We have to look at what is causing not enough homes to be built in Wales to meet demand. Because we know—

A gaf fi ddiolch i Blaid Cymru am gyflwyno trafodaeth bwysig iawn heddiw ar y sector rhentu preifat? Roeddwn yn falch iawn ein bod, ar y meinciau hyn, yn gallu cefnogi'r mwyafrif llethol o'r cynigion a gyflwynwyd gennych heddiw. Ond wrth gwrs, nid ydym yn gallu cefnogi pwynt 6. Yn ein cynnig, rydym yn bwriadu dileu hwnnw, sy'n amlwg yn ymwneud â rhewi rhenti yn y sector preifat. Ond rwy'n falch iawn ein bod hefyd wedi gallu darparu atebion amgen i rai o'r heriau sy'n ein hwynebu ar hyn o bryd, a byddaf yn archwilio'r rheini ymhellach yn fy nghyfraniad heddiw.

Yn gyntaf oll, hoffwn drafod y pwynt y soniodd Mabon ap Gwynfor amdano yn ei agoriad, sef rhai o'r canlyniadau anfwriadol mewn perthynas â rhewi rhenti. Fel y gwelsom yn Yr Alban, lle maent wedi cyflwyno mesurau rhewi rhenti, mae hyn eisoes wedi arwain at ganlyniadau anfwriadol a negyddol i denantiaid ac i'r rhai sy'n ceisio rhentu eiddo, oherwydd bod y cyflenwad o dai rhent yn lleihau tra bod y galw'n cynyddu. Yn wir, mae adeiladwr tai mwyaf yr Alban bellach wedi cyhoeddi eu bod yn mynd i atal buddsoddiad yn y sector rhentu preifat, yn rhannol oherwydd y mesurau hyn. Hefyd ar ganlyniadau anfwriadol, yn Iwerddon, lle ceir ffurfiau ar reoli rhenti ar waith eisoes fel y crybwyllwyd, gwelsom luniau ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol yn ddiweddar o gannoedd o bobl yn ciwio i geisio cael gafael ar eiddo rhent mewn llefydd fel Dulyn ar hyn o bryd. Felly, yn amlwg, nid yw'n ateb pob problem ar hyn o bryd, yn sicr.

Y pwynt arall y cyfeiriodd Mabon ap Gwynfor ato wrth agor y ddadl, ac mae eraill wedi sôn amdano heno, yw'r anghysondeb rhwng cyflenwad a galw mewn perthynas â thai rhentu preifat. Mae'n gwbl glir na fyddai rhewi rhenti'n gwneud dim byd o gwbl i fynd i'r afael â heriau cyflenwad a galw. Felly, mae'n bwysig iawn, ac er y gallai fod yn haws ceisio diystyru rhai o'r canlyniadau anfwriadol, maent yn real iawn os yw rhewi rhenti yn rhywbeth y mae'r Llywodraeth eisiau ei gefnogi a bwrw ymlaen ag ef. 

Fel yr amlinellir yn ngwelliant 2 o'n cynigion heddiw, mae awdurdodau lleol yn wynebu costau cynyddol llety dros dro, a cheir heriau sylweddol y mae angen mynd i'r afael â hwy. Cefais fy nharo gan y ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn darparu oddeutu £10 miliwn o'r cynllun COVID, y grant caledi i denantiaid, i awdurdodau lleol, ond 2.3 y cant yn unig o'r arian hwnnw a ddefnyddiwyd erioed. Felly, tybed, fel ateb cyflym i helpu ar unwaith, a fyddai Llywodraeth Cymru yn ystyried defnyddio'r tanwariant sylweddol i gefnogi'r rhai sy'n ei chael hi'n anodd bron ar unwaith. Mae rôl allweddol y gall ein cynghorau ei chwarae yn helpu i fynd i'r afael â rhai o'r heriau hyn. Gwyddom fod tai gwag yng Nghymru'n broblem sylweddol; rydym yn gwybod bod mwy o dai gwag nag a geir o ail gartrefi yng Nghymru. Felly, rydym yn argymell y dylid gwneud mwy o waith i hyrwyddo'r cynllun benthyciadau cartrefi gwag er mwyn sicrhau bod mwy o dai gwag yn cael eu troi'n ôl yn gartrefi i bobl fyw ynddynt. Mae cyfle go iawn yno i wneud gwahaniaeth cyflym.

Mae'r mater arall yr hoffwn gyffwrdd arno heddiw eisoes wedi'i grybwyll mewn gwirionedd; daw'n ôl at gyflenwad a galw mewn perthynas ag adeiladu mwy o dai. Mae wedi cael ei grybwyll yn barod fod angen adeiladu tua 12,000 o gartrefi yng Nghymru bob blwyddyn, ac nid ydym yn agos at y niferoedd hynny yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd. Mae hynny ar draws Cymru gyfan. Mae'n hafaliad eithaf syml mewn rhai ffyrdd: mae mwy o gartrefi yn golygu y bydd llai o bobl yn ddigartref; nid yw'n gymhleth. Rhaid inni ystyried pam nad oes digon o gartrefi yn cael eu hadeiladu yng Nghymru i ateb y galw. Oherwydd fe wyddom—

17:35

Will you take an intervention, please? 

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad, os gwelwch yn dda? 

Thank you so much. It was really great to hear you saying 'more homes, less people homeless', but I'm just really concerned about the Conservative position in relation to selling off our social housing. It's something I believe your party still supports. I just wondered if you could comment on that. Is that something you believe in—taking the social housing stock from local authorities and selling it on? Thank you very much. Thanks for allowing me to intervene.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Roedd yn wirioneddol wych eich clywed yn dweud 'mwy o gartrefi, llai o bobl yn ddigartref', ond rwy'n poeni'n fawr am safbwynt y Ceidwadwyr ar werthu ein tai cymdeithasol. Rwy'n credu bod eich plaid yn dal i gefnogi hynny. Roeddwn yn meddwl tybed a allech chi wneud sylw ar hynny. A ydych yn credu mewn gwneud hynny—cymryd y stoc tai cymdeithasol oddi wrth awdurdodau lleol a'i werthu ymlaen? Diolch yn fawr iawn. Diolch am ganiatáu i mi ymyrryd.

Not at all. I think it's a real aspiration for people to own their own homes, and I wouldn't want to be seen at all as holding people back from actually owning their own property, having that destiny in their own hands. I think that's a really important principle we should be looking to agree on.

I'll go back to the point around building more private homes, because nearly 85 per cent of homes in Wales are either owned or in the private rental sector. It's a real significant proportion of homes here in Wales. We also know that—and I appreciate time is running, Deputy Presiding Officer; I'll be as fast as I can here—in Wales, data from Propertymark shows that twice as many landlords are leaving the sector compared to other parts of the UK. So, it's clearly an issue here in Wales that is different to other parts of the UK, causing landlords not to want to be here as much as other areas of the UK.

I appreciate time has gone; I would urge Members to support our amendments as outlined in the paper. Thank you.

Ddim o gwbl. Rwy'n credu bod gan bobl ddyhead gwirioneddol i fod yn berchen ar eu cartrefi eu hunain, ac ni fyddwn eisiau i neb feddwl fy mod yn dal pobl yn ôl o fod yn berchen ar eu heiddo eu hunain, cael eu tynged yn eu dwylo eu hunain. Rwy'n credu bod honno'n egwyddor bwysig iawn y dylem geisio cytuno arni.

Fe af yn ôl i'r pwynt ynghylch adeiladu mwy o gartrefi preifat, oherwydd mae bron i 85 y cant o gartrefi Cymru naill ai'n eiddo perchen-feddiannaeth neu yn y sector rhentu preifat. Mae'n gyfran sylweddol iawn o gartrefi yma yng Nghymru. Rydym hefyd yn gwybod—ac rwy'n sylweddoli bod amser yn brin, Ddirprwy Lywydd; fe fyddaf mor gyflym ag y gallaf—yng Nghymru, fod data gan Propertymark yn dangos bod ddwywaith cymaint o landlordiaid yn gadael y sector o gymharu â rhannau eraill o'r DU. Felly, mae'n amlwg yn broblem yma yng Nghymru sy'n wahanol i rannau eraill o'r DU, ac sy'n achosi i landlordiaid beidio â bod eisiau bod yma gymaint ag ardaloedd eraill o'r DU.

Rwy'n sylweddoli bod yr amser wedi dod i ben; hoffwn annog yr Aelodau i gefnogi ein gwelliannau fel y maent wedi'u nodi yn y papur. Diolch.

What we're discussing today are urgent actions to support a crisis that we are all seeing. People are being made homeless now. More people will become homeless this winter—

Yr hyn a drafodwn heddiw yw camau brys i gefnogi argyfwng y mae pawb ohonom yn ei weld. Mae pobl yn cael eu gwneud yn ddigartref yn awr. Bydd mwy o bobl yn cael eu gwneud yn ddigartref y gaeaf hwn—

Would you take an intervention?

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

I've only just started, Janet. If I can carry on, and if you still want to intervene on something I've said—.

But just to respond to Sam Rowlands: of course we need to be building more homes, but that's not going to solve things for people who are homeless now, where there are inadequate solutions now. And we know already that families have been struggling to make ends meet in recent years due to deliberate austerity measures, with single parents, children and young people being some of the most disproportionately affected groups.

The Bevan Foundation found that over the summer of 2022, the number of households with one or two children that were having to cut back on food for children had nearly doubled since November 2021. That's one in 10 families with one child, and one in five families with two children, cutting back on food.

As we know, there is a significant body of evidence that demonstrates the impact of poor nutrition in childhood on a child's long-term health prospects. So, these figures are especially concerning, and they will only worsen as we reach the winter months and as the cost-of-living crisis worsens. We have to ensure that we are not only providing support to ensure that households aren't having to choose between feeding their children and heating their homes, but aren't also placed at risk of losing their home through evictions through the coldest months of the year, or being priced out because of rent inflation.

We know, also, that there's been an increase in the number of young people and care leavers being placed in temporary accommodation. In 2021-22, 95 16 and 17-year-olds were placed in temporary B&B accommodation under the current homelessness legislation and 114 care leavers were place in temporary accommodation under the same legislation. Both figures have risen since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic.

We also know that students have been raising significant financial concerns as the cost-of-living crisis has worsened, with 92 per cent of students surveyed by NUS concerned about their ability to manage financially. Student loans and grants are not increasing in line with inflation, yet they’re facing rising costs. Students have been spending more and more of their money on rent. Three years ago, the average student rent in Wales took up about 53 per cent of their financial support package, but now this figure is almost 60 per cent, with student rent rising astronomically in Wales during the past three years.

In that survey undertaken, it also stated that almost one in three students had just £50 left per month after paying their rent and bills in order to purchase food and other essential items needed for study. Eleven per cent were using foodbanks. Over two thirds of students, 69 per cent, had seen their housing costs go up since January of this year, with almost half of students saying this had gone up by over £20 per week. Eighty-nine per cent of students cited that the cost-of-living crisis has had an impact on their mental health, with a key theme in this category surrounding ‘worry over paying bills’ and ‘constant worry and stress’, as well as ‘struggling to eat’.

We must do more to ensure that our children, young people and learners are not disproportionately impacted by this cost-of-living crisis. These groups are, in many cases, reliant on family or Government for support, so we must ensure that neither they themselves nor their families are at risk of eviction, or being unable to afford their rent, or ultimately becoming homeless as a result of the cost-of-living crisis. That's why today's motion is so important: to protect those we represent who are most vulnerable in our communities.

Housing is a right, not a commodity. As stated by the United Nations, a home should be a sanctuary, a place to live in peace, security and dignity. All of that is at risk and will be at risk this winter. These are emergency measures for an emergency situation. That's why I am supporting this today, and I hope others will.

Dim ond newydd ddechrau ydw i, Janet. Os caf fi barhau, ac os byddwch chi'n dal i fod eisiau ymyrryd ar rywbeth a ddywedais—.

Ond i ymateb i Sam Rowlands: wrth gwrs bod angen inni adeiladu mwy o gartrefi, ond ni fydd hynny'n datrys pethau i bobl sy'n ddigartref yn awr, lle nad oes atebion digonol yn awr. Ac rydym yn gwybod yn barod fod teuluoedd wedi bod yn cael trafferth cael dau ben llinyn ynghyd yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf oherwydd mesurau cyni bwriadol, a rhieni sengl, plant a phobl ifanc yw rhai o'r grwpiau yr effeithir arnynt yn fwyaf anghymesur.

Yn ôl Sefydliad Bevan, dros haf 2022, roedd nifer yr aelwydydd ag un neu ddau o blant a oedd yn gorfod torri nôl ar fwyd i blant wedi bron â dyblu ers mis Tachwedd 2021. Mae hynny'n un o bob 10 teulu gydag un plentyn, ac un o bob pum teulu gyda dau o blant, yn gorfod torri'n ôl ar fwyd.

Fel y gwyddom, ceir corff sylweddol o dystiolaeth sy'n dangos effaith maeth gwael yn ystod plentyndod ar ragolygon iechyd hirdymor plentyn. Felly, mae'r ffigurau hyn yn arbennig o bryderus, ac ni fyddant ond yn gwaethygu wrth inni gyrraedd misoedd y gaeaf ac wrth i'r argyfwng costau byw waethygu. Rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn darparu cymorth i sicrhau nad yw aelwydydd yn gorfod dewis rhwng bwydo eu plant a gwresogi eu cartrefi, ond mae'n rhaid inni hefyd sicrhau nad ydynt mewn perygl o golli eu cartref drwy gael eu troi allan yn ystod misoedd oeraf y flwyddyn, neu gael eu prisio allan oherwydd chwyddo rhenti.

Gwyddom, hefyd, fod cynnydd wedi bod yn nifer y bobl ifanc a'r rhai sy'n gadael gofal sy'n cael eu gosod mewn llety dros dro. Yn 2021-22, cafodd 95 o bobl ifanc 16 ac 17 oed eu gosod mewn llety gwely a brecwast dros dro o dan y ddeddfwriaeth ddigartrefedd bresennol ac fe gafodd 114 o bobl sy'n gadael gofal eu rhoi mewn llety dros dro o dan yr un ddeddfwriaeth. Mae'r ddau ffigur wedi codi ers dechrau pandemig COVID-19.

Gwyddom hefyd fod myfyrwyr wedi bod yn mynegi pryderon ariannol sylweddol wrth i'r argyfwng costau byw waethygu, gyda 92 y cant o'r myfyrwyr a arolygwyd gan Undeb Cenedlaethol y Myfyrwyr yn pryderu ynglŷn â'u gallu i ymdopi'n ariannol. Nid yw benthyciadau a grantiau myfyrwyr yn cynyddu yn unol â chwyddiant, ond eto maent yn wynebu costau cynyddol. Mae myfyrwyr wedi bod yn gwario mwy a mwy o'u harian ar rent. Dair blynedd yn ôl, roedd rhent cyfartalog myfyrwyr yng Nghymru oddeutu 53 y cant o'u pecyn cymorth ariannol, ond bellach mae'r ffigur hwn bron yn 60 y cant, gyda chynnydd aruthrol yn rhenti myfyrwyr yng Nghymru yn ystod y tair blynedd diwethaf.

Yn yr arolwg a gynhaliwyd, nodwyd mai dim ond £50 y mis oedd ar ôl gan bron i un o bob tri myfyriwr, ar ôl talu eu rhent a'u biliau, i brynu bwyd ac eitemau hanfodol eraill sydd eu hangen ar gyfer astudio. Roedd 11 y cant yn defnyddio banciau bwyd. Roedd costau tai dros ddwy ran o dair o fyfyrwyr, 69 y cant, wedi cynyddu ers mis Ionawr eleni, gyda bron i hanner y myfyrwyr yn dweud bod y costau hyn wedi codi mwy na £20 yr wythnos. Nododd 89 y cant o fyfyrwyr fod yr argyfwng costau byw wedi cael effaith ar eu hiechyd meddwl, gyda thema allweddol yn y categori hwn yn ymwneud â 'phoeni am dalu biliau', 'pryder a straen cyson', a 'cael trafferth bwyta'.

Mae'n rhaid inni wneud mwy i sicrhau nad yw ein plant, ein pobl ifanc a'n dysgwyr yn cael eu heffeithio'n anghymesur gan yr argyfwng costau byw. Mae'r grwpiau hyn, mewn llawer o achosion, yn ddibynnol ar deulu neu Lywodraeth am gymorth, felly rhaid inni sicrhau nad ydynt hwy na'u teuluoedd mewn perygl o gael eu troi allan, neu o fethu fforddio eu rhent, neu o fynd yn ddigartref yn y pen draw o ganlyniad i'r argyfwng costau byw. Dyna pam y mae'r cynnig heddiw mor bwysig: diogelu'r rhai mwyaf agored i niwed yn y cymunedau a gynrychiolir gennym.

Hawl yw cartref, nid nwydd. Fel y nododd y Cenhedloedd Unedig, dylai cartref fod yn noddfa, yn lle i fyw mewn heddwch a diogelwch, a chydag urddas. Mae hynny i gyd mewn perygl, ac fe fydd mewn perygl y gaeaf hwn. Mae'r rhain yn fesurau brys ar gyfer sefyllfa frys. Dyna pam rwy'n cefnogi'r cynnig hwn heddiw, ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd eraill yn gwneud hynny hefyd.

17:40

In many European countries, the majority of people rent their houses, but in the UK, properties are classed as an investment. The idea that a home is a human right and that everybody is entitled to a roof over their head is subordinated to the whims of market forces, privatisation and the pursuit of profit.

When Margaret Thatcher came to power, the Government withdrew funding for councils to build housing. The disastrous right-to-buy policy further entrenched neoliberal dogma into UK housing policy and saw a 45 per cent reduction in social housing available between 1981 and 2014. Most homes sold under this policy were never replaced. It represented a mass sell-off of state assets into the private sector, which as a result cost local people more to rent and, in some cases, the public purse more in housing benefit. It wasn't until 2016 that local authorities could keep the rent from properties and reinvest in bringing them up to the Welsh housing quality standard and new council house building. Unfortunately, by this time, Tory cuts under austerity were biting.

The Welsh Government spends over 90 per cent of its budget on public sector funding and does not have the fiscal levers to borrow. The UK Government does and should provide funding to build housing. Under Clement Attlee's Labour Government, the state directly provided funding to councils to be invested in increasing social housing. The results were that hundreds of thousands of social rented homes were built. From an economic point of view, the justification was obvious: with the state building large numbers of homes, house prices and rents remained affordable because of high supply.

The current Tory policy of cutting public service funding as well as limiting social house building has created a loss of local planning, drainage, highway and transport experts, and will create mass unemployment in Wales, and poverty, as one third of people are employed in the public sector here in Wales. I am told that people in the public sector are now presenting as needing a roof over their heads, as wages have not risen with the Tory cost-of-living crisis. And the Prime Minister needs to be educated that you cannot grow the private sector while cutting the public sector under austerity too. The private sector cannot step in, as there is a huge workforce and skills shortage there too following the pandemic and leaving the EU.

Social landlords are already subject to a rents freeze until the end of March next year; caps are reviewed annually and are set by Welsh Government. The private sector needs also to have rent controls, the right to secure tenancies with the right to keep a pet included in the tenancy, and ban the use of no-fault evictions. And we need to ensure that banks and building societies take historic rent payments into account when assessing mortgage applications. Many people are paying rent prices that are higher than mortgage applications.

The local housing allowance was frozen in 2016, and again in 2020. Some landlords are flipping to Airbnbs as, according to a Bevan report, in some areas, they can earn in 10 weeks what they would on a full-time rental through the local housing allowance, which is just not enough. The situation is fast-moving and critical. From talking recently to council leaders and housing associations, and a new report from Crisis, the time for a private rent freeze is not now; the situation is too volatile, complex and risky under the UK Government's political-economic crisis, which has seen the fastest mortgage increase on record, and a forecast that house prices will fall and a recession, there's just nothing to fill the gap at the moment. Landlords are realising that their property investment will no longer be sound and that they can make more by putting their money into the bank. People are worried about mortgages once fixed-terms comes to an end, and the situation is frightening. 

I have just read the Scottish Government's rent freeze—

Mewn llawer o wledydd Ewropeaidd, mae'r mwyafrif o bobl yn rhentu eu tai, ond yn y DU, mae eiddo'n cael ei ystyried yn fuddsoddiad. Mae'r syniad fod cartref yn hawl ddynol a bod gan bawb hawl i do dros eu pen yn ddarostyngedig i fympwy grymoedd y farchnad, preifateiddio a cheisio elw.

Pan ddaeth Margaret Thatcher i rym, fe dynnodd y Llywodraeth arian a roddwyd i gynghorau adeiladu tai yn ôl. Fe wnaeth y polisi hawl i brynu trychinebus wreiddio dogma neo-ryddfrydol yn ddyfnach ym mholisi tai'r DU a gwelwyd gostyngiad o 45 y cant yn nifer y tai cymdeithasol a oedd ar gael rhwng 1981 a 2014. Ni chafwyd tai newydd erioed yn lle'r rhan fwyaf o'r cartrefi a werthwyd o dan y polisi hwn. Gwerthiant torfol o asedau gwladol i mewn i'r sector preifat ydoedd, ac o ganlyniad mae wedi costio mwy i bobl leol rentu, a mwy, mewn rhai achosion, i'r pwrs cyhoeddus mewn budd-daliadau tai. Cyn 2016, ni châi awdurdodau lleol gadw'r rhent o eiddo a'i ail-fuddsoddi i'w gwella i safon ansawdd tai Cymru ac adeiladu tai cyngor newydd. Yn anffodus, erbyn yr amser hwnnw, roedd toriadau cyni'r Torïaid yn brathu.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n gwario dros 90 y cant o'i chyllideb ar gyllid sector cyhoeddus ac nid oes ganddi ddulliau cyllidol o fenthyg. Mae Llywodraeth y DU yn darparu cyllid i adeiladu tai, fel y dylai. O dan Lywodraeth Lafur Clement Attlee, roedd y wladwriaeth yn rhoi arian yn uniongyrchol i gynghorau i'w fuddsoddi ar gyfer cynyddu tai cymdeithasol. O ganlyniad, cafodd cannoedd o filoedd o dai rhent cymdeithasol eu hadeiladu. O safbwynt economaidd, roedd y cyfiawnhad yn amlwg: gyda'r wladwriaeth yn adeiladu niferoedd mawr o gartrefi, roedd prisiau tai a rhenti'n parhau i fod yn fforddiadwy oherwydd bod lefelau'r cyflenwad yn uchel.

Mae'r polisi Torïaidd presennol o dorri cyllid gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yn ogystal â chyfyngu ar y gwaith o adeiladu tai cymdeithasol wedi creu prinder arbenigwyr ar gynllunio lleol, draenio, priffyrdd a thrafnidiaeth, a bydd yn creu diweithdra torfol yng Nghymru, a thlodi, gan fod traean o bobl yn cael eu cyflogi yn y sector cyhoeddus yma yng Nghymru. Dywedir wrthyf fod pobl yn y sector cyhoeddus bellach angen to dros eu pennau, gan nad yw cyflogau wedi codi yn unol ag argyfwng costau byw'r Torïaid. Ac mae angen addysgu Prif Weinidog y DU na allwch dyfu'r sector preifat a gwneud toriadau cyni yn y sector cyhoeddus ar yr un pryd. Ni all y sector preifat gamu i'r adwy, gan fod prinder enfawr o weithlu a sgiliau yno hefyd yn sgil y pandemig a gadael yr UE.

Mae landlordiaid cymdeithasol eisoes yn ddarostyngedig i fesurau rhewi rhenti tan ddiwedd mis Mawrth y flwyddyn nesaf; caiff capiau eu hadolygu'n flynyddol a'u gosod gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Mae angen i'r sector preifat hefyd gael mesurau rheoli rhenti, hawl i denantiaeth ddiogel gyda hawl i gadw anifail anwes wedi'i chynnwys yn y denantiaeth, a gwahardd y defnydd o droi allan heb fai. Ac mae angen inni sicrhau bod banciau a chymdeithasau adeiladu'n ystyried taliadau rhent hanesyddol wrth asesu ceisiadau morgais. Mae llawer o bobl yn talu prisiau rhent sy'n uwch na cheisiadau morgais.

Cafodd y lwfans tai lleol ei rewi yn 2016 ac eto yn 2020. Mae rhai landlordiaid yn troi at Airbnbs oherwydd, yn ôl adroddiad Bevan, mewn rhai ardaloedd, gallant ennill yr un faint mewn 10 wythnos ag y byddent yn ei ennill ar rent amser llawn drwy'r lwfans tai lleol, nad yw'n ddigon o gwbl. Mae'r sefyllfa'n argyfyngus ac yn newid yn gyflym. O siarad yn ddiweddar ag arweinwyr cynghorau a chymdeithasau tai, ac adroddiad newydd gan Crisis, nid nawr yw'r amser i rewi rhenti'r sector preifat; mae'r sefyllfa'n rhy gyfnewidiol, yn rhy gymhleth ac yn rhy beryglus gydag argyfwng gwleidyddol-economaidd Llywodraeth y DU, sydd wedi gweld y cynnydd cyflymaf erioed i forgeisi, a rhagwelir y bydd prisiau tai'n disgyn ac y cawn ddirwasgiad, felly nid oes dim i lenwi'r bwlch ar hyn o bryd. Mae landlordiaid yn sylweddoli na fydd eu buddsoddiad eiddo yn ddiogel mwyach ac y gallant wneud mwy drwy roi eu harian yn y banc. Mae pobl yn poeni am forgeisi pan ddaw cyfnodau penodol i ben, ac mae'r sefyllfa'n frawychus. 

Rwyf newydd ddarllen bod mesurau rhewi rhenti Llywodraeth yr Alban—

17:45

Sorry, I just want to carry on. I'm mid flow and I've only got a minute left. 

Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, rwyf am barhau. Rwyf ynghanol siarad a dim ond munud sydd gennyf ar ôl. 

I just wanted to ask a quick question.

Roeddwn i eisiau gofyn cwestiwn cyflym, dyna'i gyd.

I've just—sorry, I don't know where I'm up to you, now. I have just read that the Scottish Government's rent freeze has lots of exceptions for private landlords, where a landlord faces increased property costs, mortgage interest payments and some insurance costs, so they do have exceptions, and they're not included in that rent freeze. We need to ensure that there is targeted help for those struggling tenants who are earning enough to cover rent but are entitled to benefits.

I welcome the funding to allow councils and housing associations to purchase private rental properties as they come on the market to help secure tenancies, save evictions and move properties into the social housing market, which is what we need. There are approximately 25,000 empty properties in Wales. Often, one of the reasons given by owners of empty properties for keeping them is that they are waiting for the property markets to improve before selling. Because of the lack of supply of housing, owners know that, if they hold on to a property long enough, it's likely to increase in value. People now will probably realise that their asset will depreciate because of what's happening with the economic status and put them on the market, hopefully.

Rwyf—mae'n ddrwg gennyf, rwyf wedi colli fy lle. Rwyf newydd ddarllen bod mesurau rhewi rhenti Llywodraeth yr Alban yn cynnwys llawer o eithriadau i landlordiaid preifat, lle mae landlord yn wynebu mwy o gostau eiddo, taliadau llog ar forgais a rhai costau yswiriant, felly mae ganddynt eithriadau, ac nid ydynt wedi'u cynnwys yn y mesurau rhewi rhenti hynny. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod cymorth wedi'i dargedu yn cael ei ddarparu i'r tenantiaid sy'n ei chael hi'n anodd ac sy'n ennill digon i dalu rhent ond sydd â hawl i fudd-daliadau.

Rwy'n croesawu'r cyllid i ganiatáu i gynghorau a chymdeithasau tai brynu eiddo rhentu preifat wrth iddynt ddod ar y farchnad i helpu i ddiogelu tenantiaethau, arbed rhag troi allan a symud eiddo i'r farchnad dai cymdeithasol, sef yr hyn sydd ei angen arnom. Mae tua 25,000 eiddo gwag yng Nghymru. Yn aml, un o'r rhesymau y mae perchnogion eiddo gwag yn eu rhoi dros eu cadw yw eu bod yn aros i'r marchnadoedd eiddo wella cyn gwerthu. Oherwydd prinder cyflenwad tai, mae perchnogion yn gwybod, os ydynt yn dal eu gafael ar eiddo'n ddigon hir, ei fod yn debygol o gynyddu yn ei werth. Mae'n debyg y bydd pobl yn sylweddoli bellach y bydd gwerth eu hased yn gostwng oherwydd yr hyn sy'n digwydd gyda'r sefyllfa economaidd ac yn eu rhoi ar y farchnad, gobeithio.

Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd yn awr—Julie James.

I call on the Minister for Climate Change now—Julie James.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. People across Wales are facing an unprecedented cost-of-living crisis, fuelled by soaring energy, fuel and food costs. But, Dirprwy Lywydd, let's be clear: this is entirely a Tory-made crisis, from a decade of austerity to cruel cuts to benefits and broken promises on taxes. Mortgage bills are rising as a result of the fallout from the mini budget, or fiscal event, or whatever it is that we're supposed to call it, and the UK is forecast to have the slowest growth of any major advanced economy next year, and the lowest of any G20 economy, bar Russia. The Tories have created the conditions for this unprecedented crisis and are adding to the pressures on household budgets. The Welsh Government entirely recognises the pressure that the rising cost of living is placing on already struggling households budgets. This, of course, includes rental costs for tenants.

We know that rents sought for new lets and rent in particular areas of Wales are increasing at a much faster rate than the average 2.5 per cent reported by the Office for National Statistics. Mabon talked of doing nothing, but this Government is committed to helping tenants, including supporting them to remain in their homes. That is why we have provided an additional £6 million this financial year to local authorities for discretionary homelessness prevention and relief measures. This funding can be used for both private rented and social tenants, and can include a payment of rent arrears, providing a rent guarantee or assistance with household bills. Preventing homelessness remains an absolute key priority in Wales and is reflected in our programme for government and in the co-operation agreement. Underpinning this, of course, is our ambitious target to deliver 20,000 new low-carbon homes for rent in the social sector in this Senedd term.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae pobl ledled Cymru'n wynebu argyfwng costau byw digynsail sydd wedi'i ysgogi gan y cynnydd aruthrol yng nghostau ynni, tanwydd a bwyd. Ond Ddirprwy Lywydd, gadewch inni fod yn glir: argyfwng a wnaed gan y Torïaid yw hwn, o ddegawd o gyni i doriadau creulon i fudd-daliadau ac addewidion gwag ar drethi. Mae biliau morgeisi'n codi o ganlyniad i'r gyllideb fach, neu'r digwyddiad cyllidol, neu beth bynnag yr ydym i fod i'w alw, a rhagwelir y bydd economi'r DU yn wynebu'r twf arafaf y flwyddyn nesaf o gymharu ag unrhyw economi fawr ddatblygedig, a'r isaf o gymharu ag unrhyw economi G20 ar wahân i Rwsia. Mae'r Torïaid wedi creu'r amodau ar gyfer yr argyfwng digynsail hwn ac maent yn ychwanegu at y pwysau ar gyllidebau aelwydydd. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn llwyr gydnabod y pwysau y mae costau byw cynyddol yn ei roi ar gyllidebau aelwydydd sydd eisoes yn ei chael hi'n anodd. Mae hyn, wrth gwrs, yn cynnwys costau rhentu i denantiaid.

Rydym yn gwybod bod rhenti tenantiaethau newydd a rhenti mewn ardaloedd penodol o Gymru yn codi'n gynt o lawer na'r cyfartaledd o 2.5 y cant a gofnodwyd gan y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol. Soniodd Mabon am wneud dim byd, ond mae'r Llywodraeth hon wedi ymrwymo i helpu tenantiaid, gan gynnwys eu cefnogi i aros yn eu cartrefi. Dyna pam ein bod wedi darparu £6 miliwn ychwanegol i awdurdodau lleol y flwyddyn ariannol hon ar gyfer mesurau rhyddhad ac atal digartrefedd yn ôl disgresiwn. Gellir defnyddio'r cyllid hwn ar gyfer tenantiaid rhentu preifat a thenantiaid tai cymdeithasol, a gall gynnwys talu ôl-ddyledion rhent, darparu gwarant rhent neu gymorth gyda biliau'r cartref. Mae atal digartrefedd yn parhau i fod yn flaenoriaeth gwbl allweddol yng Nghymru ac fe'i hadlewyrchir yn ein rhaglen lywodraethu ac yn y cytundeb cydweithio. Ategir hyn wrth gwrs gan ein targed uchelgeisiol i ddarparu 20,000 o gartrefi carbon isel newydd i'w rhentu yn y sector cymdeithasol yn ystod tymor y Senedd hon.

17:50

Daeth y Llywydd i’r Gadair.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Our commitment is absolutely demonstrated in the investments that we are making: over £197 million of housing support and homeless prevention services, and a record £310 million in social housing this year alone. We do not underestimate, however, the scale of the challenge facing households across Wales, who are, understandably, extremely worried about the impact of the cost-of-living crisis on them and their families. That is why we are working across the Government to offer and deliver immediate support for those most in need.

As the Minister for Social Justice set out in a recent cost-of-living debate, in this financial year alone, we will be spending £1.6 billion on targeted cost-of-living support and universal programmes to put money back in people’s pockets and help alleviate this crisis. Only a few weeks ago, the First Minister announced an additional three measures that we will implement, on a third ‘Claim what’s yours’ campaign, on warm spaces and on foodbanks.

Turning specifically to the private rented sector, in January this year, I launched leasing scheme Wales, committing £30 million over five years to improve access to longer term affordable housing in the private rented sector. It will deliver security for tenants and confidence for landlords. The scheme is designed to support the most disadvantaged people and households who are experiencing, or who are at risk of, homelessness. Tenants on the scheme will benefit from longer term security of tenure between five and 20 years and rents restricted to local housing allowance rates. There will be additional funding to ensure that they receive the level of support that they would expect in social housing. We have also provided £300,000 of funding for Citizens Advice Cymru, to establish the private rented sector or PRS debt helpline. During the first year of the scheme, more than 900 tenants have been supported.

But it is clear, looking at the legislation laid in Scotland, that neither rent freezes nor an eviction moratorium offers a panacea or absolute certainty for tenants. I’m sure that Members have seen the paper from Crisis on this very topic. Crisis points out that a blanket rent freeze policy benefits all tenants in the rented sector, but not all tenants in the rented sector are experiencing problems with affordability. The private rented sector in particular—and these are Crisis’s words, not mine—is a very diverse sector in terms of the households it serves, from students and young professionals, to families with children and older households. There is a group of middle-income households for whom affordability is not such a problem. There’s a sizable group who are really struggling to meet their housing costs, who these proposals might benefit. There’s also a group who are already having to make up shortfalls between their rent and their housing benefit. Now, a rent freeze and an eviction ban would serve to delay evictions of this group, but would not eliminate the risk of accruing rent arrears. They go on to say that they support exactly what this Government is doing, which is to target the support at the people who are most vulnerable in this sector and make sure that they stay in their homes. We do not want to drive landlords away from the sector; we want to make sure that people take advantage of the PRS and stay in their homes.

So, while on the face of it—as many Members who have contributed to this debate have pointed out—a temporary moratorium could be seen as a way of keeping people in their homes, it has absolutely been the case that it does not do so for a very long time. It just delays the point where people face mandatory evictions in the spring, for rent arrears that they find very difficult to pay back. So, targeted help for them at the time, in their home, is a much better way to do it. And legislating to introduce a rent freeze does not impact on new lettings. Recent academic evidence has highlighted that the consequence of rent controls in many countries—for example, Ireland, as people have pointed out—has been landlords leaving the market in really large numbers. This further reduces the availability of housing and risks driving up cases of homelessness, particularly for the most vulnerable tenants, who are not able to access alternative rental accommodation.

Also, rent control measures have proven to act as a target rather than a cap in some jurisdictions. So, our preferred approach is absolutely to ensure that tenants are supported in staying in their own homes, and to provide financial assistance, which we have already put in place and is available right now. This is not any kind of ‘do nothing’ option. And of course, we are bringing in the renting homes Act in December, which is a real shift in the protection afforded to tenants in the PRS.

And of course we need to develop a robust and long-term solution that will ensure a sustainable rental sector in Wales. To do this, we need to understand fully, through evidence, what the issues are in different parts of the country and what implications various rent control options may have, if introduced. That is why we have committed, under the co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru, to developing a White Paper during this Government term. We've commissioned research, which is now under way, to develop the evidence base to support the right kind of rent controls for the right kind of property in the right place. However, given the escalating prices, I am keen to gather as many views as possible on potential interventions to inform the development of the White Paper, so today, I will confirm that we will be publishing and engaging on a Green Paper ahead of, and in order to inform, the White Paper. 

Deputy Llywydd, this Government is committed to using all the levers we have to help people in a sustainable manner to remain in their homes and avoid homelessness. The UK Government needs to take immediate action on reversing their outrageous freeze on the local housing allowance. Various Conservative Members have contributed to this debate, but I call on them once more to make very public their call on the UK Government to reinstate the local housing allowance. It is driving poverty in the sector and it does not help the landlords. The landlords would be better helped if the local housing allowance was at the right level as well. They would be better able to help their tenants. So, this is hurting everyone and helping no-one. I've again this week written to the UK Government calling on them to unfreeze and uplift the local housing allowance rates as part of them honouring their commitment to increase benefits in line with inflation. I really hope that we are not going to see this incredibly right-wing Government come down hard on benefit claimants at a point in time when they are clearly trying to increase the wealth of the wealthiest part of our population. It is absolutely unthinkable that they keep local housing rates frozen at a time when private rented sector rents are rising at the fastest rate in over a decade in many areas, and there's a significant gap between people's rental costs and the current rates being paid.

Compounding the failure to unfreeze and increase the local housing allowance is the cutting of other welfare budgets that are needed now more than ever. The discretionary housing payment budget can be used by local authorities to support people most affected by the benefit cuts, but this year, the Tory Government saw fit to cut that budget by approximately 27 per cent, or £2.3 million compared to last year. This is on top of a previous 18 per cent reduction. These are huge reductions in funding, and they exacerbate the plight of those already experiencing the cost-of-living crisis. I've previously called on the UK Government to reinstate these cuts. There's no indication that they will heed those calls, and I call on the Conservative benches here today to say publicly that they think that these cuts are wrong and should be reversed.

So, to conclude, Deputy Llywydd, we acknowledge the huge cost-of-living crisis faced by households across Wales. I've set out today in the short time available that we are and will continue to support people across Wales through this extraordinarily challenging time. We are accelerating our actions to better understand the potential impacts and consequences of additional measures, but we do not believe in bringing in measures without a robust evidence base, as we know that they can have very serious unintended consequences and lead to increased homelessness.

As always, Llywydd, I would like to end by extending my gratitude to all the people working in homelessness services across Wales. They have worked extraordinarily hard right through the pandemic and continuing on to make sure that, in Wales, everyone receives a service, unlike across the border—I'll just point that out: unlike across the border, everyone in Wales receives a service for homelessness, and we are doing our absolute damndest to make sure that people can stay safe and secure in their homes through this oncoming winter crisis. Diolch. 

Mae ein hymrwymiad wedi ei ddangos yn glir yn y buddsoddiadau a wnawn: buddsoddiad o dros £197 miliwn mewn cymorth tai a gwasanaethau atal digartrefedd, a £310 miliwn eleni yn unig mewn tai cymdeithasol, sef y lefel uchaf erioed. Fodd bynnag, nid ydym yn bychanu maint yr her sy'n wynebu aelwydydd ledled Cymru, sydd, yn ddealladwy, yn poeni'n fawr am effaith yr argyfwng costau byw arnynt hwy a'u teuluoedd. Dyna pam ein bod yn gweithio ar draws y Llywodraeth i gynnig a darparu cymorth ar unwaith i'r rhai sydd fwyaf mewn angen.

Fel y nododd y Gweinidog Cyfiawnder Cymdeithasol mewn dadl ddiweddar ar yr argyfwng costau byw, yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon yn unig, byddwn yn gwario £1.6 biliwn ar gymorth costau byw wedi'i dargedu a rhaglenni cyffredinol i roi arian yn ôl ym mhocedi pobl ac i helpu i leddfu'r argyfwng hwn. Ychydig wythnosau yn ôl yn unig, cyhoeddodd y Prif Weinidog dri mesur ychwanegol y byddwn yn eu gweithredu, ar drydedd ymgyrch 'Hawliwch yr hyn sy'n ddyledus i chi', ar ganolfannau cynnes ac ar fanciau bwyd.

Gan droi'n benodol at y sector rhentu preifat, ym mis Ionawr eleni, lansiais gynllun lesio Cymru, yn ymrwymo £30 miliwn dros bum mlynedd i wella mynediad at dai fforddiadwy mwy hirdymor yn y sector rhentu preifat. Bydd yn sicrhau diogelwch i denantiaid ac yn rhoi hyder i landlordiaid. Lluniwyd y cynllun i gefnogi'r bobl a'r aelwydydd mwyaf difreintiedig sy'n ddigartref neu sy'n wynebu risg o ddigartrefedd. Bydd tenantiaid sy'n rhan o'r cynllun yn elwa o sicrwydd deiliadaeth fwy hirdymor o rhwng pump ac 20 mlynedd a bydd rhenti wedi'u cyfyngu i gyfraddau lwfans tai lleol. Bydd yna arian ychwanegol i sicrhau eu bod yn cael y lefel o gymorth y byddent yn ei ddisgwyl mewn tai cymdeithasol. Rydym hefyd wedi darparu £300,000 o gyllid ar gyfer Cyngor ar Bopeth Cymru i sefydlu llinell gymorth dyledion y sector rhentu preifat. Yn ystod blwyddyn gyntaf y cynllun, mae dros 900 o denantiaid wedi cael eu cefnogi.

Ond o edrych ar y ddeddfwriaeth a gyflwynwyd yn yr Alban, mae'n amlwg nad yw mesurau rhewi rhenti na moratoriwm ar droi allan yn cynnig ateb i bob problem na sicrwydd llwyr i denantiaid. Rwy'n siŵr fod yr Aelodau wedi gweld papur Crisis ar yr union bwnc hwn. Mae Crisis yn nodi bod polisi rhewi rhenti cyffredinol o fudd i bob tenant yn y sector rhentu, ond nid oes gan bob tenant yn y sector rhentu broblemau gyda fforddiadwyedd. Mae'r sector rhentu preifat, yn arbennig—a geiriau Crisis yw'r rhain, nid fy ngeiriau i—yn sector amrywiol iawn o ran yr aelwydydd y mae'n eu gwasanaethu, o fyfyrwyr a gweithwyr ifanc proffesiynol, i deuluoedd â phlant ac aelwydydd hŷn. Ceir grŵp o aelwydydd incwm canolig nad yw fforddiadwyedd yn gymaint o broblem iddynt. Ceir grŵp gweddol fawr sy'n ei chael hi'n anodd iawn talu eu costau tai, a gallai'r rheini elwa o'r cynigion hyn. Ceir grŵp hefyd sydd eisoes yn gorfod talu'r gwahaniaeth rhwng eu rhent a'u budd-dal tai. Nawr, byddai rhewi rhenti a gwahardd troi allan yn oedi unrhyw gamau i droi pobl yn y grŵp hwn allan, ond ni fyddai'n cael gwared ar y risg o gronni ôl-ddyledion rhent. Ânt rhagddynt i ddweud eu bod yn cefnogi'r hyn y mae'r Llywodraeth hon yn ei wneud, sef targedu'r cymorth ar y bobl fwyaf agored i niwed yn y sector hwn a gwneud yn siŵr eu bod yn aros yn eu cartrefi. Nid ydym eisiau gyrru landlordiaid allan o'r sector; rydym eisiau gwneud yn siŵr fod pobl yn manteisio ar y sector rhentu preifat ac yn aros yn eu cartrefi.

Felly, er bod moratoriwm dros dro—fel y mae llawer o'r Aelodau sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl hon wedi nodi—yn gallu ymddangos ar yr wyneb fel ffordd o gadw pobl yn eu cartrefi, mae wedi bod yn gwbl amlwg nad yw'n gwneud hynny am amser hir iawn. Nid yw ond yn gohirio'r adeg pan fydd pobl yn wynebu troi allan gorfodol yn y gwanwyn, am ôl-ddyledion rhent y maent yn ei chael hi'n anodd iawn eu talu'n ôl. Felly, mae sicrhau cymorth wedi'i dargedu ar eu cyfer ar y pryd, yn eu cartrefi, yn ffordd lawer gwell o wneud hyn. Ac nid yw deddfu i gyflwyno mesurau rhewi rhenti yn effeithio ar denantiaethau newydd. Mae tystiolaeth academaidd ddiweddar wedi dangos bod mesurau rheoli rhenti mewn llawer o wledydd—er enghraifft, Iwerddon, fel y mae pobl wedi nodi—wedi arwain at landlordiaid yn gadael y farchnad mewn niferoedd gwirioneddol fawr. Mae hyn yn lleihau argaeledd tai ymhellach ac mae perygl y gallai gynyddu achosion o ddigartrefedd, yn enwedig ymhlith y tenantiaid mwyaf agored i niwed nad ydynt yn gallu cael mynediad at ddarpariaeth rent amgen.

Hefyd, profwyd bod mesurau rheoli rhenti'n gweithredu fel targed yn hytrach na chap mewn rhai awdurdodaethau. Felly, y dull a ffefrir gennym ni yw sicrhau bod tenantiaid yn cael eu cefnogi i aros yn eu cartrefi eu hunain, a darparu cymorth ariannol, sydd eisoes ar waith gennym ac ar gael yn awr. Nid yw hyn yn unrhyw fath o opsiwn 'gwneud dim'. Ac wrth gwrs, bydd y Ddeddf rhentu cartrefi yn dod i rym ym mis Rhagfyr, sy'n newid go iawn yn yr amddiffyniad a roddir i denantiaid yn y sector rhentu preifat.

Ac wrth gwrs mae angen inni ddatblygu ateb cadarn a hirdymor a fydd yn sicrhau sector rhentu cynaliadwy yng Nghymru. I wneud hyn, mae angen inni ddeall yn llawn, drwy dystiolaeth, beth yw'r problemau mewn gwahanol rannau o'r wlad a pha oblygiadau a allai fod i wahanol opsiynau rheoli rhenti os cânt eu cyflwyno. Dyna pam ein bod wedi ymrwymo, o dan y cytundeb cydweithio â Phlaid Cymru, i ddatblygu Papur Gwyn yn ystod tymor y Llywodraeth hon. Rydym wedi comisiynu ymchwil, sydd bellach ar y gweill, i ddatblygu'r sylfaen dystiolaeth i gefnogi'r math cywir o fesurau rheoli rhenti ar gyfer y math cywir o eiddo yn y lle cywir. Fodd bynnag, o ystyried y prisiau cynyddol, rwy'n awyddus i gasglu cymaint o safbwyntiau â phosibl ar ymyriadau posibl i lywio datblygiad y Papur Gwyn, felly heddiw, rwy'n cadarnhau y byddwn yn cyhoeddi ac yn gweithio ar Bapur Gwyrdd yn gyntaf er mwyn darparu gwybodaeth i'r Papur Gwyn. 

Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae'r Llywodraeth hon wedi ymrwymo i ddefnyddio'r holl ddulliau sydd gennym i helpu pobl mewn modd cynaliadwy i aros yn eu cartrefi ac osgoi digartrefedd. Mae angen i Lywodraeth y DU weithredu ar unwaith a gwrthdroi eu penderfyniad gwarthus i rewi'r lwfans tai lleol. Mae amryw o Aelodau Ceidwadol wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl hon, ond rwy'n galw arnynt unwaith yn rhagor i wneud eu galwad ar Lywodraeth y DU i adfer y lwfans tai lleol yn gyhoeddus iawn. Mae'n arwain at dlodi yn y sector ac nid yw'n helpu'r landlordiaid. Byddai'n fwy o help i landlordiaid pe bai'r lwfans tai lleol ar y lefel briodol hefyd. Byddent yn gallu helpu eu tenantiaid yn well. Felly, mae hyn yn brifo pawb ac nid yw'n helpu neb. Rwyf wedi ysgrifennu at Lywodraeth y DU unwaith eto yr wythnos hon yn galw arnynt i ddadrewi a chynyddu'r cyfraddau lwfans tai lleol mewn ymdrech i gadw eu hymrwymiad i gynyddu budd-daliadau yn unol â chwyddiant. Rwy'n gobeithio'n fawr na fyddwn yn gweld y Llywodraeth asgell dde eithriadol hon yn cosbi hawlwyr budd-daliadau ar adeg pan fo'n amlwg eu bod yn ceisio cynyddu cyfoeth y rhai mwyaf cyfoethog yn ein poblogaeth. Mae'n gwbl warthus eu bod yn rhewi cyfraddau tai lleol ar adeg pan fo rhenti'r sector rhentu preifat yn codi ar y gyfradd gyflymaf mewn dros ddegawd mewn sawl ardal, a bwlch sylweddol rhwng costau rhent pobl a'r cyfraddau sy'n cael eu talu ar hyn o bryd.

Mae torri cyllidebau lles eraill, sydd eu hangen yn awr yn fwy nag erioed, yn dwysáu'r methiant i ddadrewi a chynyddu'r lwfans tai lleol. Gall awdurdodau lleol ddefnyddio'r gyllideb taliadau disgresiwn at gostau tai i gefnogi pobl yr effeithir arnynt fwyaf gan y toriadau i fudd-daliadau, ond eleni, penderfynodd y Llywodraeth Dorïaidd dorri tua 27 y cant, neu £2.3 miliwn, oddi ar y gyllideb honno o'i gymharu â'r llynedd. Daw hyn ar ben gostyngiad blaenorol o 18 y cant. Mae'r rhain yn ostyngiadau enfawr mewn cyllid, ac maent yn gwaethygu sefyllfa'r rhai sy'n profi'r argyfwng costau byw eisoes. Rwyf wedi galw ar Lywodraeth y DU yn y gorffennol i adfer y toriadau hyn. Nid oes unrhyw arwydd y byddant yn gwrando ar y galwadau hynny, ac rwy'n galw ar yr Aelodau Ceidwadol yma heddiw i ddweud yn gyhoeddus eu bod yn credu bod y toriadau hyn yn anghywir ac y dylid eu gwrthdroi.

Felly, i gloi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, rydym yn cydnabod yr argyfwng costau byw enfawr y mae aelwydydd yn ei wynebu ledled Cymru. Rwyf wedi nodi heddiw yn y cyfnod byr o amser sydd ar gael ein bod ni, ac y byddwn ni, yn parhau i gefnogi pobl ledled Cymru drwy'r cyfnod heriol eithriadol hwn. Rydym yn cyflymu ein gweithredoedd i ddeall effeithiau a chanlyniadau posibl mesurau ychwanegol yn well, ond nid ydym yn credu mewn cyflwyno mesurau heb sylfaen dystiolaeth gadarn, gan ein bod yn gwybod y gallant arwain at ganlyniadau anfwriadol difrifol iawn ac arwain at fwy o ddigartrefedd.

Fel bob amser, Lywydd, hoffwn orffen drwy ddiolch i'r holl bobl sy'n gweithio mewn gwasanaethau digartrefedd ledled Cymru. Maent wedi gweithio'n eithriadol o galed drwy'r pandemig ac yn parhau i wneud hynny i sicrhau bod pawb yng Nghymru yn cael gwasanaeth, yn wahanol i'r hyn sy'n digwydd dros y ffin—rwyf am nodi hynny: yn wahanol i'r hyn sy'n digwydd dros y ffin, mae pawb yng Nghymru yn cael gwasanaeth ar gyfer digartrefedd, ac rydym yn gwneud ein gorau glas i sicrhau bod pobl yn gallu aros yn ddiogel yn eu cartrefi drwy'r argyfwng sydd i ddod y gaeaf hwn. Diolch. 

17:55

Mabon ap Gwynfor nawr i ymateb i'r ddadl. 

Mabon ap Gwynfor now to respond to the debate. 

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd, a diolch yn fawr iawn i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl a'r drafodaeth ddifyr yma. 

Thank you very much, Llywydd, and thank you to everyone who has contributed to the debate, which has been very interesting.  

I must say, listening to Janet Finch-Saunders's first contribution, and also Andrew R.T. Davies's, the irony that they recognised that the free market is absolutely failing our communities, and therefore they are calling for and demanding a state intervention on building houses, only then to see those social houses be sold back to the private sector—there's a certain irony there that is obviously missed. You want to see more social housing being built, which is state intervention—[Interruption.] Yes, I will take an intervention.

Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, wrth wrando ar gyfraniad cyntaf Janet Finch-Saunders, ac Andrew R.T. Davies hefyd, roedd yna eironi yn y ffaith eu bod yn cydnabod bod y farchnad rydd yn gwneud cam mawr â'n cymunedau, a'u bod felly yn galw am, ac yn mynnu ymyrraeth gan y wladwriaeth ar adeiladu tai, dim ond i weld y tai cymdeithasol hynny'n cael eu gwerthu'n ôl i'r sector preifat—mae yna eironi pendant yno sy'n amlwg yn cael ei golli. Rydych eisiau gweld mwy o dai cymdeithasol yn cael eu hadeiladu, sef ymyrraeth y wladwriaeth—[Torri ar draws.] Iawn, rwy'n fodlon derbyn ymyriad.

The point I interjected on with Mike Hedges was the ability to build more houses. We're only building about 6,000 a year when we know that we need 12,000. I didn't mention anything about state intervention whatsoever. 

Y pwynt a godais gyda Mike Hedges oedd y gallu i adeiladu mwy o dai. Nid ydym ond yn adeiladu tua 6,000 y flwyddyn a ninnau'n gwybod bod angen 12,000. Ni soniais am ymyrraeth y wladwriaeth o gwbl. 

Janet has just said 'more social housing', which is state intervention, which is coupled with what you said. [Interruption.] Okay. So, do you want to make an intervention, Janet?

Mae Janet newydd ddweud 'mwy o dai cymdeithasol', sef ymyrraeth y wladwriaeth, sy'n cyd-fynd â'r hyn ddywedoch chi. [Torri ar draws.] Iawn. Felly, a ydych chi eisiau gwneud ymyriad, Janet?

No. You can make an intervention.

Na. Gallwch wneud ymyriad.

Yes, can I make an intervention? [Laughter.] I beg your pardon. Would you withdraw the comments that you've just made about landlords doing their properties up out of the public purse and then selling them on? That is not allowed. If you have one of the lease agreements with any local authority where they give you money—I think at the moment it's about £25,000—you have to pay that money back before you can sell your property. So, that does need to be taken back, because that's making out that private landlords are actually making money out of the public purse, and that is not correct. 

Ie, a gaf fi wneud ymyriad? [Chwerthin.] Mae'n ddrwg gennyf. A wnewch chi dynnu'r sylwadau yr ydych newydd eu gwneud yn ôl am landlordiaid yn adnewyddu eu heiddo gydag arian o'r pwrs cyhoeddus ac yna'n eu gwerthu ymlaen? Ni chaniateir hynny. Os oes gennych gytundeb lesio gydag unrhyw awdurdod lleol lle maent yn rhoi arian i chi—rwy'n meddwl ei fod tua £25,000 ar hyn o bryd—rhaid i chi dalu'r arian hwnnw yn ôl cyn i chi allu gwerthu eich eiddo. Felly, mae angen tynnu hynny yn ôl, oherwydd mae hynny'n awgrymu bod landlordiaid preifat yn gwneud arian o'r pwrs cyhoeddus ac nid yw hynny'n wir. 

18:00

No, what we have seen once again is examples from this Government and from your own Government of public money being transferred to private pockets, and making sure that people who are already relatively wealthy are making more money off the back of working people—[Interruption.] That's the policy—

Na, yr hyn a welsom unwaith eto yw enghreifftiau gan y Llywodraeth hon a chan eich Llywodraeth chi o arian cyhoeddus yn cael ei drosglwyddo i bocedi preifat, a sicrhau bod pobl sydd eisoes yn gymharol gyfoethog yn gwneud mwy o arian ar gefn pobl sy'n gweithio—[Torri ar draws.] Dyna'r polisi—

Okay, okay. Allow Mabon ap Gwynfor to carry on with his closing. 

O'r gorau, o'r gorau. Caniatewch i Mabon ap Gwynfor barhau i gloi'r ddadl. 

That's the policy that you're perpetuating. Now, what we did hear as well, thanks to Luke's intervention and Sioned, was that they did mention the fact that what we need to do is protect people, not assets. Houses are homes. They are where people need to live; they are not the way for people to make profit, which is what the Tories have been propagating here. 

We heard from Sam Rowlands about empty homes—absolutely, we agree. We need to bring empty homes back into use again. And we heard a lot of ideas around empty homes, around developing social housing, and others. These are all long-term ideas. They don't deal with the crisis that we are facing today and they won't help those people that are facing evictions over the coming months over this winter period. 

Heledd referred to students and the fact that 60 per cent of their income goes on rent. I'm glad to say that NUS Wales/UCMC support this call today. Also, it's worth noting that the TUC are also supporting action on rent controls and rent freezes. In fact, two years ago, a TUC survey showed that 66 per cent of their members supported this motion, and only 8 per cent oppose it. 

Carolyn mentioned the post-war Clement Attlee Government. The thing with that post-war Government was that housing was then under the public health department. It shows the importance and ties in exactly with what Mike Hedges said about that link between poor housing and poor health. Mike also referenced Airbnb, and what we're finding at the moment is that landlords—different from what Sam said earlier that landlords are leaving the sector—yes, they're leaving the sector and they're going and transferring their property over to Airbnbs, or, in some cases, they're profiting from the high price value of houses. 

So, that's the situation we have, but the fact remains that everyone should be guaranteed high-quality, affordable housing, but this isn't the case here in Wales at the moment, and it's been exacerbated by the cost of living and housing crisis that's occurring at the moment. We're told that the first responsibility of a Government in a democratic society is to protect and safeguard the lives of its citizens. This is said at a time of conflict when we're at war—every time we hear of conflict, millions and billions of pounds are pumped into supporting and ensuring the safety of our citizens.  Well, this is the case today. We need to make sure that we defend and protect our citizens and make sure that they don't suffer because of homelessness, because they can't afford to have a roof above their heads.   

Dyna'r polisi yr ydych chi'n ei barhau. Nawr, yr hyn a glywsom hefyd, diolch i ymyriad Luke a Sioned, oedd eu bod wedi sôn mai'r hyn sydd angen inni ei wneud yw diogelu pobl, nid asedau. Cartrefi yw tai. Llefydd y mae pobl eu hangen i fyw ydynt, nid ffordd i bobl wneud elw, sef yr hyn y mae'r Torïaid wedi bod yn ei ledaenu yma. 

Clywsom gan Sam Rowlands am gartrefi gwag—yn hollol, rydym yn cytuno. Mae angen inni ddod â thai gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd eto. Ac fe glywsom lawer o syniadau ynghylch cartrefi gwag, ynglŷn â datblygu tai cymdeithasol, ac eraill. Mae'r rhain i gyd yn syniadau hirdymor. Nid ydynt yn mynd i'r afael â'r argyfwng sy'n ein hwynebu heddiw ac ni fyddant yn helpu'r bobl sy'n wynebu cael eu troi allan dros y misoedd nesaf yn ystod y gaeaf hwn. 

Cyfeiriodd Heledd at fyfyrwyr a'r ffaith bod 60 y cant o'u hincwm yn mynd ar rent. Rwy'n falch o ddweud bod Undeb Myfyrwyr Cymru/UCMC yn cefnogi'r alwad hon heddiw. Hefyd, mae'n werth nodi bod y TUC yn cefnogi gweithredu ar reoli rhenti a rhewi rhenti. Mewn gwirionedd, ddwy flynedd yn ôl, dangosodd arolwg TUC fod 66 y cant o'u haelodau'n cefnogi'r cynnig hwn, a dim ond 8 y cant yn ei wrthwynebu. 

Soniodd Carolyn am Lywodraeth Clement Attlee ar ôl y rhyfel. Y peth gyda'r Llywodraeth honno wedi'r rhyfel oedd bod tai wedyn o dan yr adran iechyd cyhoeddus. Mae'n dangos y pwysigrwydd ac yn cysylltu'n llwyr â'r hyn a ddywedodd Mike Hedges am y cyswllt rhwng tai gwael ac iechyd gwael. Cyfeiriodd Mike hefyd at Airbnb, a'r hyn a welwn ar hyn o bryd yw bod landlordiaid—yn wahanol i'r hyn a ddywedodd Sam yn gynharach fod landlordiaid yn gadael y sector—ydynt, maent yn gadael y sector ac maent yn troi eu heiddo'n Airbnbs, neu mewn rhai achosion, yn gwneud elw o bris uchel tai. 

Dyna'r sefyllfa sydd gennym, ond erys y ffaith y dylai pawb gael sicrwydd o gartref fforddiadwy o safon uchel, ond nid dyma'r sefyllfa yma yng Nghymru yn awr, ac mae wedi ei waethygu gan yr argyfwng costau byw a thai sy'n digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Clywn mai cyfrifoldeb cyntaf Llywodraeth mewn cymdeithas ddemocrataidd yw amddiffyn a diogelu bywydau ei dinasyddion. Dywedir hyn ar adeg o ryfel pan ydym yn brwydro—bob tro y clywn am ryfel, caiff miliynau a biliynau o bunnoedd eu pwmpio i mewn i gefnogi a sicrhau diogelwch ein dinasyddion. Wel, mae hyn yn wir heddiw. Mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn amddiffyn ac yn diogelu ein dinasyddion a sicrhau nad ydynt yn dioddef oherwydd digartrefedd, oherwydd na allant fforddio cael to uwch eu pennau.   

Would you give way on that point? 

A wnewch chi ildio ar y pwynt hwnnw? 

I agree with the sentiment entirely, but would you please respond to the points that are made in the Crisis UK report—and I draw, like the Member opposite, attention to my register of interests as well—where they say that the very measures being proposed carry a significant risk, in their words, of an immediate flood of notices to quit and increases in rent, a wave of rent rises and evictions, debt accrual of rent arrears by tenants, and negative impact on the supply of and access to private rented housing for those at the lowest end of the market? You have passion, you have great intentions, but Crisis is showing that the measures you are proposing will have negative consequences. 

Rwy'n cytuno â'r teimlad yn llwyr, ond a wnewch chi ymateb i'r pwyntiau sy'n cael eu gwneud yn adroddiad Crisis UK—ac rwy'n tynnu sylw, fel yr Aelod gyferbyn, at fy nghofrestr buddiannau hefyd—lle maent yn dweud bod yr union fesurau sy'n cael eu hargymell yn creu risg sylweddol, yn eu geiriau hwy, o lif uniongyrchol o hysbysiadau ymadael a chodiadau rhent, ton o godiadau rhent a throi allan, cronni ôl-ddyledion rhent gan denantiaid, ac effaith negyddol ar gyflenwad a mynediad at dai rhentu preifat i'r rhai sydd ar ben isaf y farchnad? Mae gennych angerdd, mae gennych fwriadau gwych, ond mae Crisis yn dangos y bydd y mesurau yr ydych yn eu hargymell yn arwain at ganlyniadau negyddol. 

We accept what Crisis are concerned about, and I believe I referenced that in my original comments. What we're saying is that while we accept that might happen in the future, we know it's going to happen now. We know people are being made homeless now, so we need steps to mitigate that situation. Now, we know also that these steps that we've referenced work in France, they work in Denmark, they have worked in Ireland as well. So, what you're asking is, because of your fear that something might happen—because of Crisis's and the Government's fear that something might happen—let's do nothing. That's what you're asking for.

Now, we can't—

Rydym yn derbyn yr hyn y mae Crisis yn poeni amdano, ac rwy'n credu fy mod wedi nodi hynny yn fy sylwadau gwreiddiol. Yr hyn yr ydym ni'n ei ddweud yw, er ein bod yn derbyn y gallai hynny ddigwydd yn y dyfodol, fe wyddom ei fod yn mynd i ddigwydd yn awr. Gwyddom fod pobl yn cael eu gwneud yn ddigartref yn awr, felly mae angen camau arnom i liniaru'r sefyllfa honno. Nawr, gwyddom hefyd fod y camau a nodwyd gennym yn gweithio yn Ffrainc, maent yn gweithio yn Nenmarc, maent wedi gweithio yn Iwerddon hefyd. Felly, oherwydd eich ofn y gallai rhywbeth ddigwydd—oherwydd ofn Crisis a'r Llywodraeth y gallai rhywbeth ddigwydd—yr hyn a ofynnwch yw gadewch inni beidio â gwneud unrhyw beth. Dyna y gofynnwch amdano.

Nawr, ni allwn—

No, I'm running out of time, I'm afraid, Huw. [Interruption.] Well, I am running out of time, I'm afraid, Huw. 

Na, rwy'n brin o amser, mae arnaf ofn, Huw. [Torri ar draws.] Wel, rwy'n brin o amser, mae arnaf ofn, Huw. 

You don't have to accept the intervention. 

Nid oes raid ichi dderbyn yr ymyriad. 

Well, I'm coming to—. I will accept, given that I have time. 

Wel, rwy'n dod at—. Fe wnaf dderbyn, gan fod gennyf amser. 

Okay. He's accepting the intervention. 

O'r gorau. Mae'n derbyn yr ymyriad. 

Thank you. Would you then respond to Crisis's observations on better ways to deal with exactly the issue that you are putting forward? I agree with your passion and I agree with the fact that we need to do everything we can. They've suggested other ways. What's your response to their alternative measures?

Diolch. A fyddech chi felly'n ymateb i sylwadau Crisis ar ffyrdd gwell o ymdrin â'r union fater yr ydych chi'n ei gyflwyno? Rwy'n cytuno â'ch angerdd ac rwy'n cytuno â'r ffaith bod angen inni wneud popeth a allwn. Maent wedi awgrymu ffyrdd eraill. Beth yw eich ymateb i'w mesurau amgen?

18:05

They have suggested some ideas that will help, and, at the moment, the Government haven't taken those ideas up and they're not delivering on them. Also, what we know is that people will be made homeless over the coming months, so we want to see action now to make sure that those people aren't made homeless, instead of maybe pushing it forward into the future. That's what we are proposing. A rent freeze would help deal with that. That's the truth of this matter. At the moment, there's no other alternative; there's no other suggestion coming from the Government or anybody else to deal with the crisis facing us today, and unless we take action today, then we know we will see more people being homeless. Fear is what's causing this inaction, and right now we can't afford inaction. You could do this; you could take action to save lives. We need to see that same conviction that your Government showed during the COVID crisis and that courage that you showed. We need to see that taken again today. As Sioned said, we need radical action and we can't stand by and do nothing. So, let's support this motion so that we can give the Government the leadership it needs to take action to mitigate the worst of the circumstances today. Thank you. 

Maent wedi awgrymu rhai syniadau a fydd yn helpu, ac ar hyn o bryd, nid yw'r Llywodraeth wedi mabwysiadu'r syniadau hynny ac nid ydynt yn eu cyflawni. Hefyd, fe wyddom y bydd pobl yn cael eu gwneud yn ddigartref dros y misoedd nesaf, felly rydym eisiau gweld gweithredu yn awr i sicrhau nad yw'r bobl hynny'n cael eu gwneud yn ddigartref, yn lle ei wthio ymlaen i'r dyfodol efallai. Dyna'r hyn yr ydym yn ei gynnig. Byddai rhewi rhenti'n helpu i ymdrin â hynny. Dyna wirionedd y mater hwn. Ar hyn o bryd, nid oes unrhyw ddewis arall; nid oes unrhyw awgrym arall yn dod gan y Llywodraeth nac unrhyw un arall i ymdrin â'r argyfwng sy'n ein hwynebu heddiw, ac oni bai ein bod yn gweithredu heddiw, fe wyddom y byddwn yn gweld mwy o bobl yn ddigartref. Ofn yw'r hyn sy'n achosi'r diffyg gweithredu hwn, ac ar hyn o bryd ni allwn fforddio peidio â gweithredu. Gallech wneud hyn; gallech weithredu i achub bywydau. Mae angen inni weld yr un argyhoeddiad a ddangosodd eich Llywodraeth yn ystod argyfwng COVID a'r dewrder a ddangoswyd gennych. Mae angen inni weld hynny'n digwydd eto heddiw. Fel y dywedodd Sioned, mae angen gweithredu radical ac ni allwn sefyll o'r neilltu a gwneud dim. Felly, gadewch inni gefnogi'r cynnig hwn er mwyn inni allu rhoi'r arweinyddiaeth sydd ei hangen ar y Llywodraeth i weithredu er mwyn lliniaru'r amgylchiadau gwaethaf heddiw. Diolch. 

Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Oes, mae yna wrthwynebiad, felly byddwn ni'n gohirio'r bleidlais tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There are objections. We will, therefore, defer voting until voting time.

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Voting deferred until voting time.

8. Cyfnod Pleidleisio
8. Voting Time

Rŷn ni'n cyrraedd y cyfnod pleidleisio nawr. Oni bai bod tri Aelod yn dymuno i fi ganu'r gloch, dwi'n symud yn syth i'r bleidlais. Felly, rŷn ni'n agor y bleidlais ar yr eitem gyntaf. Eitem 7 yw'r eitem gyntaf i bleidleisio arni. Dwi'n galw am bleidlais ar y cynnig, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Siân Gwenllian. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 11, yn ymatal neb, 38 yn erbyn. Felly, mae'r cynnig yna wedi ei wrthod.

That brings us to voting time. Unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, I will move immediately to the vote. So, I call for a vote on item 7. That's our first vote this evening. I call for a vote on the motion, tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 11, no abstentions and 38 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed.

Eitem 7—Dadl Plaid Cymru. Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Siân Gwenllian: O blaid: 11, Yn erbyn: 38, Ymatal: 0

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig

Item 7—Plaid Cymru Debate. Motion without amendment, tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian: For: 11, Against: 38, Abstain: 0

Motion has been rejected

Gwelliant 1 fydd y bleidlais nesaf, ac os derbynnir gwelliant 1, bydd gwelliant 2 yn cael ei ddad-ddethol. Dwi'n galw am bleidlais, felly, ar welliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Lesley Griffiths. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. Mae'r bleidlais yn gyfartal. Roedd 25 o blaid, 25 yn erbyn, neb yn ymatal. Felly, dwi'n bwrw fy mhleidlais fwrw yn erbyn gwelliant 1. Canlyniad y bleidlais, felly, yw bod 25 o blaid, neb yn ymatal, 26 yn erbyn. Felly, mae'r gwelliant wedi'i wrthod.

The next vote is on amendment 1. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. I call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths. Open the vote. Close the vote. The vote is tied: 25 in favour, 25 against, and no abstentions. Therefore, I exercise my casting vote against amendment 1. The result of the vote, therefore, is that there were 25 in favour, no abstentions, 26 against, and therefore the amendment is not agreed.

Eitem 7—Dadl Plaid Cymru. Gwelliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Lesley Griffiths: O blaid: 25, Yn erbyn: 25, Ymatal: 0

Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Llywydd ei phleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant

Item 7—Plaid Cymru Debate. Amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths: For: 25, Against: 25, Abstain: 0

As there was an equality of votes, the Llywydd used her casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).

Amendment has been rejected

Gwelliant 2 sydd nesaf, felly. Mae gwelliant 2 wedi'i gyflwyno gan Darren Millar. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 39, neb yn ymatal, 11 yn erbyn. Mae gwelliant 2 wedi'i dderbyn.

I call for a vote on amendment 2, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 39, no abstentions, 11 against. Therefore, amendment 2 is agreed.

Eitem 7—Dadl Plaid Cymru. Gwelliant 2, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar: O blaid: 39, Yn erbyn: 11, Ymatal: 0

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant

Item 7—Plaid Cymru Debate. Amendment 2, tabled in the name of Darren Millar: For: 39, Against: 11, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been agreed

Gwelliant 3 sydd nesaf. Mae gwelliant 3 eto yn enw Darren Millar. Agor y bleidlais ar welliant 3. Mae'r bleidlais unwaith eto'n gyfartal—25 o blaid, 25 yn erbyn. Fe rydw i'n defnyddio fy mhleidlais i a'i gosod yn erbyn. 

Amendment 3 is next. Amendment 3, again, is in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote on amendment 3. The vote, once again, is tied with 25 in favour, 25 against. I use my casting vote against the amendment. 

18:10

My screen said that I had permission to vote and that the vote hadn't been closed when you called the result of the vote. Does that mean that my vote wasn't recorded?

Dywedodd fy sgrin fod caniatâd i mi bleidleisio ac nad oedd y bleidlais wedi ei chau pan wnaethoch alw canlyniad y bleidlais. A yw hynny'n golygu na chafodd fy mhleidlais ei chofnodi?

I will pause on that and check, but I think your vote will have been passed. Yes, we can confirm to you, Alun Davies, that your vote was cast and has been recorded. The final vote, then, after my casting vote, was: in favour of amendment 3 25, nobody abstaining, and against 26. So, amendment 3 falls.

Fe wnaf oedi ar hynny ac edrych i weld, ond rwy'n credu y bydd eich pleidlais wedi cael ei phasio. Gallwn gadarnhau i chi, Alun Davies, fod eich pleidlais wedi'i bwrw ac wedi'i chofnodi. Y bleidlais derfynol, felly, ar ôl fy mhleidlais fwrw, oedd: o blaid gwelliant 3 25, neb yn ymatal, ac yn erbyn 26. Felly, gwrthodwyd gwelliant 3.

Eitem 7—Dadl Plaid Cymru. Gwelliant 3, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar: O blaid: 25, Yn erbyn: 25, Ymatal: 0

Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Llywydd ei phleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant

Item 7—Plaid Cymru Debate. Amendment 3, tabled in the name of Darren Millar: For: 25, Against: 25, Abstain: 0

As there was an equality of votes, the Llywydd used her casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).

Amendment has been rejected

We will now take a vote on the motion, as amended by amendment 2. 

Fe bleidleisiwn yn awr ar y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd gan welliant 2. 

Cynnig NDM8091 fel y'i diwygiwyd:

Cynnig bod y Senedd:

1. Yn nodi bod rhenti cynyddol yn ychwanegu at bwysau ar aelwydydd ledled Cymru wrth i'r argyfwng costau byw waethygu ymhellach.

2. Yn nodi bod gwerthoedd rhent cyfartalog Cymru wedi cynyddu i £926 y mis ym mis Mehefin 2022, sef cynnydd 15.1 y cant o'i gymharu â Mehefin 2021.

3. Yn nodi'r niferoedd cynyddol ar restrau aros am dai cymdeithasol, a diffyg stoc tai cymdeithasol.

4. Yn nodi bod diffyg darpariaeth o dai priodol a bod pobl yn wynebu digartrefedd pan fyddant yn cael eu troi allan.

5. Yn credu bod yn rhaid gwarchod tenantiaid ar frys y gaeaf hwn.

6. Yn nodi'r symiau cynyddol y mae awdurdodau lleol yn eu gwario ar lety dros dro.

Motion NDM8091 as amended:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that rising rents are adding to pressures on households across Wales as the cost-of-living crisis escalates further.

2. Notes that Wales’s average rental values have increased to £926 per month in June 2022, up by 15.1 per cent compared to June 2021.

3. Notes the increased numbers on social housing waiting lists, and the lack of social housing stock.

4. Notes that in the event of an eviction there is a lack of appropriate housing provision and people face homelessness.

5. Believes that tenants must be protected as a matter of urgency this winter.

6. Notes the spiralling cost of temporary accommodation spend for local authorities.

Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 39, neb yn ymatal, 11 yn erbyn, ac felly mae'r cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio wedi ei dderbyn.

Open the vote. Close vote. In favour 39, no abstentions, 11 against, and therefore the motion as amended is agreed.

Eitem 7—Dadl Plaid Cymru. Cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio: O blaid: 39, Yn erbyn: 11, Ymatal: 0

Derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd

Item 7—Plaid Cymru Debate. Motion as amended: For: 39, Against: 11, Abstain: 0

Motion as amended has been agreed

Dyna ddiwedd ar y cyfnod pleidleisio y prynhawn yma.

That concludes voting time for today.

9. Dadl Fer: Lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg: Rhaff achub yn yr argyfwng presennol
9. Short Debate: Education maintenance allowance: A lifeline in the current crisis

Ond mae yna ddadl fer nawr i'w chlywed, a dwi'n galw ar Luke Fletcher i gyflwyno'r ddadl fer yn ei enw e. Luke. 

But we do have a short debate, and I call on Luke Fletcher to speak to the topic that he has chosen. 

And if Members can leave the Chamber quietly if you're leaving the Chamber, so that the short debate can be heard.

Ac os oes modd i'r Aelodau adael y Siambr yn dawel os ydych chi'n gadael y Siambr, er mwyn gallu clywed y ddadl fer.

Diolch, Llywydd, and I've agreed to give a minute of time to Mike Hedges, Heledd Fychan, Peredur Owen Griffiths and Jenny Rathbone. What is education maintenance allowance other than a lifeline for so many, both today and in the past? In 1999, the UK Government announced a pilot programme in 15 local authority areas. The programme proposed a payment to students aged 16 to 19 from families who were considered low income and who were in full-time education in either school or college. The question was a simple one, but also an ambitious one: could participation and achievement be raised through directly addressing the financial problems faced by kids from low-income families? In 2000, 15 local authority areas turned to 55 and, after the pilot concluded, EMA was rolled out UK wide in 2004. It lasted until October 2010, when the UK Government decided to scrap it.

But it wasn't scrapped here in Wales, and, as I've said before, it's important that we acknowledge that Welsh Government protected it then, and have protected it since. For that, like so many other kids from low-income families, I am grateful. But if it still exists here in Wales, then why are we having this debate? The reality is that EMA is failing to meet the needs and challenges faced by learners today. First and foremost, the value of an EMA payment is nowhere near enough to support a learner. The value has remained at £30 a week since 2004, almost two decades without a rise. Had the payments kept up with inflation, the payment would be today £45 a week. That has resulted in a real-terms cut in the value of EMA by a third over this period. In 2020, Robert, 17 at the time, told the Bevan Foundation,

'You need more EMA. £30 doesn't buy you anything. It's crap. It's gone by the time you cover basic costs.'

Chloe, 16 at the time said, 'It's okay, but hard to divide it into what you need.' And Thomas, 18 at the time, said that books proved to be too expensive to afford.

The biggest concern, however, identified by education providers in relation to the payment as it stands, was that some learners dropped out because they thought that they would be financially better off claiming jobseeker's allowance or to take up a full-time employment post. Many simply couldn't afford to continue with their education even when they were receipt of EMA. This, of course, flies in the face of the main principle that EMA was founded upon, and the pandemic, and no doubt the cost-of-living crisis, will only make the situation worse. So, as a matter of urgency, the weekly payment needs to be addressed. 

Diolch, Lywydd, ac rwyf wedi cytuno i roi munud o amser i Mike Hedges, Heledd Fychan, Peredur Owen Griffiths a Jenny Rathbone. Beth yw lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg heblaw rhaff achub i gynifer, heddiw ac yn y gorffennol? Ym 1999, cyhoeddodd Llywodraeth y DU raglen beilot mewn 15 ardal awdurdod lleol. Cynigiai'r rhaglen daliad i fyfyrwyr 16 i 19 oed o deuluoedd yr ystyrid eu bod yn deuluoedd incwm isel ac a oedd mewn addysg amser llawn naill ai yn yr ysgol neu'r coleg. Roedd y cwestiwn yn un syml, ond hefyd yn un uchelgeisiol: a ellid cynyddu cyrhaeddiad a chyfranogiad drwy fynd i'r afael yn uniongyrchol â'r problemau ariannol sy'n wynebu plant o deuluoedd incwm isel? Yn 2000, trodd 15 ardal awdurdod lleol yn 55, ac ar ôl i'r peilot ddod i ben, cafodd y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg ei gyflwyno ledled y DU yn 2004. Parhaodd tan fis Hydref 2010, pan benderfynodd Llywodraeth y DU gael gwared arno.

Ond ni chafodd ei ddirwyn i ben yma yng Nghymru, ac fel y dywedais o'r blaen, mae'n bwysig ein bod yn cydnabod bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ei ddiogelu ar y pryd, ac wedi ei ddiogelu ers hynny. Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn am hynny fel cymaint o blant eraill o deuluoedd incwm isel. Ond os yw'n dal i fodoli yma yng Nghymru, pam ein bod yn cael y ddadl hon? Y gwir amdani yw bod y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg yn methu diwallu'r anghenion a'r heriau sy'n wynebu dysgwyr heddiw. Yn bennaf oll, nid yw gwerth taliad lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg yn agos at fod yn ddigon i gefnogi dysgwr. Mae'r gwerth wedi aros ar £30 yr wythnos ers 2004, bron i ddau ddegawd heb ei godi. Pe bai'r taliadau wedi cadw gyfuwch â chwyddiant, byddai'r taliad heddiw yn £45 yr wythnos. Mae hynny wedi arwain at doriad o draean mewn termau real yng ngwerth y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg dros y cyfnod hwn. Yn 2020, dywedodd Robert, 17 ar y pryd, wrth Sefydliad Bevan,

'Mae angen mwy o lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg. Nid yw £30 yn prynu unrhyw beth i chi. Mae'n ddiwerth. Mae wedi mynd erbyn ichi dalu costau sylfaenol.'

Dywedodd Chloe, 16 ar y pryd, 'Mae'n iawn, ond yn anodd ei rannu ar gyfer yr hyn sydd ei angen arnoch.' A dywedodd Thomas, a oedd yn 18 oed ar y pryd, fod llyfrau'n rhy ddrud i'w fforddio.

Ond y pryder mwyaf a nodwyd gan ddarparwyr addysg mewn perthynas â'r taliad fel y mae ar hyn o bryd, oedd bod rhai dysgwyr wedi rhoi'r gorau iddi oherwydd eu bod yn credu y byddent yn well eu byd yn ariannol yn hawlio lwfans ceisio gwaith neu'n cael swydd amser llawn. Roedd llawer yn methu fforddio parhau â'u haddysg hyd yn oed pan oeddent yn cael lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg. Mae hyn, wrth gwrs, yn mynd yn groes i'r brif egwyddor y sefydlwyd y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg arni, a bydd y pandemig, a'r argyfwng costau byw mae'n siŵr, yn gwneud y sefyllfa'n waeth. Felly, mae angen mynd i'r afael â'r taliad wythnosol ar fyrder. 

18:15

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

Secondly, the eligibility criteria must be addressed and expanded. Too many young people are being locked out of support that they desperately need. The thresholds have largely remained unchanged since 2011, meaning that inflation hasn't been taken into account. This has resulted in learners today needing to be poorer than learners back in 2011 in order to be able to claim. Again, the Bevan Foundation calculated that the threshold for eligibility should now be £4,000 higher after accounting for inflation and that, the real-terms reduction in eligibility thresholds, has meant that the number of learners accessing EMA has consistently fallen. Overall, it has fallen from roughly 30,000 learners in receipt in 2013 and 2014 to roughly 20,000 in 2018 and 2019. Previously, the Welsh Government has said that this has been due to demographic changes, but the logic doesn't follow. Although the number of 16 and 18-year-olds has fallen by 8 per cent, the number of EMA recipients has reduced by a third. A common message heard often is how children from low-income households are unable to afford food in the canteen or relevant learning materials, yet they're not eligible for EMA.

Finally, real concerns have been expressed to me by education providers relating to the complexity and lack of awareness of the application process. I have to take a moment to thank the team at Bridgend College, who consistently made this point, in particular Carys Swain, who has been a fantastic advocate for learners within the college. The process of applying itself is locking out students, and this again came across in research conducted by the Bevan Foundation, as well as being recognised by the Welsh Government in its 2014 review of EMA. Colleges and schools are, of course, doing their best to refer, but it's challenging. There are a lot of learners who are unaware that they are entitled to EMA.

So, what am I asking for? What is the purpose of this debate? What I want from the Government in the first instance—. And of course I recognise that the Welsh Government's budget is limited and things will only get tougher, but what I want is an assurance that EMA is a priority for this Government, and that, when the funding is available in the Minister's portfolio, EMA is one of those policy areas that is at the top of the list. What I would also ask is that the Minister reviews EMA, not only relating to the payment but also the eligibility criteria and the application process, and that the Government steps up its entitlement awareness campaign amongst young learners.

Dirprwy Lywydd, every Member in this Chamber right now is here because they know how important EMA is to the success of a learner from a low-income household. Coming back to the original question as to what is the purpose of EMA, 'Could participation, achievement, be raised through directly addressing the financial problems faced by kids from low-income households?' Well, it was; the evidence is there for people to see. But unfortunately it's falling short. I know the Minister takes these concerns seriously. I know the Government does as well. But what we need now, more than ever, is action.

Yn ail, rhaid mynd i'r afael â'r meini prawf cymhwysedd a'u hehangu. Mae gormod o bobl ifanc yn cael eu cloi allan o gymorth y maent ei angen yn fawr. I raddau helaeth mae'r trothwyon wedi aros yr un fath ers 2011, sy'n golygu nad yw chwyddiant wedi cael ei ystyried. Oherwydd hyn mae angen i ddysgwyr heddiw fod yn dlotach na dysgwyr yn ôl yn 2011 er mwyn gallu ei hawlio. Unwaith eto, cyfrifodd Sefydliad Bevan y dylai'r trothwy cymhwysedd fod £4,000 yn uwch erbyn hyn ar ôl cynnwys chwyddiant a bod y gostyngiad termau real yn y trothwyon cymhwysedd wedi golygu bod nifer y dysgwyr sy'n cael y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg wedi gostwng yn gyson. At ei gilydd, mae'r nifer wedi gostwng o oddeutu 30,000 o ddysgwyr yn 2013 a 2014 i tua 20,000 yn 2018 a 2019. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi dweud o'r blaen mai newidiadau demograffig a fu'n gyfrifol am hyn, ond nid yw'r rhesymeg yn dilyn. Er bod nifer y bobl ifanc 16 ac 18 oed wedi gostwng 8 y cant, mae nifer y rhai sy'n cael lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg draean yn is. Neges gyffredin a glywir yn aml yw sut nad yw plant o aelwydydd incwm isel yn gallu fforddio bwyd yn y ffreutur neu ddeunyddiau dysgu perthnasol, ond eto nid ydynt yn gymwys ar gyfer lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg.

Yn olaf, mae pryderon gwirioneddol wedi'u mynegi wrthyf gan ddarparwyr addysg ynghylch cymhlethdod a diffyg ymwybyddiaeth o'r broses ymgeisio. Rhaid imi roi eiliad i ddiolch i'r tîm yng Ngholeg Penybont, a wnaeth y pwynt hwn yn gyson, yn enwedig Carys Swain, sydd wedi dadlau'n wych dros ddysgwyr yn y coleg. Mae'r broses ymgeisio ei hun yn cloi myfyrwyr allan, a daeth hyn yn amlwg eto mewn ymchwil a wnaed gan Sefydliad Bevan, yn ogystal â chael ei gydnabod gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn ei hadolygiad o'r lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg yn 2014. Mae colegau ac ysgolion, wrth gwrs, yn gwneud eu gorau i gyfeirio, ond mae'n heriol. Ceir llawer o ddysgwyr nad ydynt yn ymwybodol fod ganddynt hawl i lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg.

Felly, am beth y gofynnaf? Beth yw pwrpas y ddadl hon? Beth rwyf ei eisiau gan y Llywodraeth yn y lle cyntaf—. Ac wrth gwrs rwy'n cydnabod bod cyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru yn gyfyngedig ac mai gwaethygu a wnaiff pethau, ond yr hyn rwyf am ei gael yw sicrwydd fod y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg yn flaenoriaeth i'r Llywodraeth hon, a phan fo'r arian ar gael ym mhortffolio'r Gweinidog, fod y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg yn un o'r meysydd polisi sydd ar frig y rhestr. Hoffwn ofyn hefyd i'r Gweinidog adolygu'r lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg, nid yn unig mewn perthynas â'r taliad ond hefyd y meini prawf cymhwysedd a'r broses ymgeisio, a bod y Llywodraeth yn gwella ei hymgyrch godi ymwybyddiaeth ynglŷn â'r hawl i gael y lwfans ymhlith dysgwyr ifanc.

Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae pob Aelod yn y Siambr yma yn awr oherwydd eu bod yn gwybod pa mor bwysig yw'r lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg i lwyddiant dysgwr o aelwyd incwm isel. Os caf ddod yn ôl at y cwestiwn gwreiddiol ynglŷn â beth yw pwrpas y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg, 'A allai lefelau cyfranogiad, cyrhaeddiad, godi drwy fynd i'r afael yn uniongyrchol â'r problemau ariannol sy'n wynebu plant o aelwydydd incwm isel?' Wel, mae'r dystiolaeth yno i bobl ei gweld. Ond yn anffodus mae'n disgyn yn fyr o'r nod. Rwy'n gwybod bod y Gweinidog yn rhoi ystyriaeth ddifrifol i'r pryderon hyn. Rwy'n gwybod bod y Llywodraeth hefyd. Ond yr hyn sydd ei angen arnom yn awr, yn fwy nag erioed, yw gweithredu.

Can I thank Luke Fletcher for giving me a minute in this debate? EMA is very important. From my time as a further education college lecturer in RCT, if EMA had not existed many students who went on to successful careers in ICT would not have been able to continue their studies. EMA provides the finance to allow them to continue studying and then move on to higher education. EMA allows those from less well-off families to continue to study past 16 years of age. It is means tested, and based upon total family income. Does it catch everyone that needs it? No. But it provides a lifeline to many. I agree with Luke Fletcher that it needs to be expanded. More people need to be eligible for it. But it's providing such a tremendous opportunity to so many young people from less well-off backgrounds. As someone who, from both personal experience and seeing my former students succeed, has seen the benefit education has on income—the better educated you are, the better the chance of getting a good job—that should not be restricted to only those who come from affluent families; every child should have the same opportunity. EMA is a necessity for many.

A gaf fi ddiolch i Luke Fletcher am roi munud i mi yn y ddadl hon? Mae lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg yn bwysig iawn. O fy amser fel darlithydd coleg addysg bellach yn RhCT, pe na bai lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg wedi bodoli ni fyddai nifer o fyfyrwyr a aeth ymlaen i yrfaoedd llwyddiannus mewn TGCh wedi gallu parhau â'u hastudiaethau. Mae'r lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg yn darparu cyllid i'w galluogi i barhau i astudio ac yna symud ymlaen i addysg uwch. Mae'r lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg yn caniatáu i'r rhai o deuluoedd llai cefnog barhau i astudio heibio i 16 oed. Mae'n dibynnu ar brawf modd, ac yn seiliedig ar gyfanswm incwm y teulu. A yw'n dal pawb sydd ei angen? Nac ydy. Ond mae'n cynnig rhaff achub i lawer. Rwy'n cytuno â Luke Fletcher fod angen ei ehangu. Mae angen i fwy o bobl fod yn gymwys i'w gael. Ond mae'n rhoi cyfle mor aruthrol i gymaint o bobl ifanc o gefndiroedd llai cefnog. Fel rhywun sydd, o brofiad personol ac o weld fy nghyn-fyfyrwyr yn llwyddo, wedi gweld yr hwb y mae addysg yn ei gynnig i incwm—po fwyaf o addysg a gawsoch, gorau oll yw eich gobaith o gael swydd dda—ni ddylid cyfyngu hynny i'r rhai sy'n dod o deuluoedd cefnog yn unig; dylai pob plentyn gael yr un cyfle. Mae lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg yn anghenraid i lawer.

Diolch, Luke, am ddod â hyn ger ein bron heddiw.

Thank you, Luke, for bringing forward this debate today.

It is a lifeline for many. We cannot underestimate how important it is. One of the things that I'm really pleased that you've emphasised today is in terms of the eligibility criteria, because one of the things that has been brought up with me, from those whose young people within families are completely reliant on the EMA, has been the eligibility criteria when that young person is a carer. At present, they have to have 100 percent attendance in order to receive that EMA. And one of the things also that we see time and time again is in terms of the increase in public transport costs maybe impacting them from being able to get to that college et cetera to have 100 percent attendance. So, I think we do need to look now. We saw, during the pandemic, more colleges using Teams and so on, that people could join remotely, whereas that now is being pulled back again by colleges, and this emphasis on being present physically is actually providing a barrier. I think we need to embrace what happened during the pandemic in terms of people being able to join remotely, because, if the amount of money received via EMA cannot be increased at this point in time, then at least we can make it easier for students to be able to be present and they're not then losing out on these essential payments, which then means that they're dropping out of education, because their families can't afford to not have even that £30 per week. So, I very much hope that the Minister can work with colleges to ensure that the eligibility is there and that people aren't then punished if they can't have that 100 per cent attendance because of a whole array of things that are outside of their own control, including the cost-of-living crisis.

Mae'n rhaff achub i lawer. Ni allwn orbwysleisio ei bwysigrwydd. Un o'r pethau rwy'n falch iawn eich bod wedi'u pwysleisio heddiw yw'r meini prawf cymhwysedd, oherwydd un o'r pethau sydd wedi cael eu dwyn i fy sylw, gan rai y mae'r bobl ifanc yn eu teuluoedd yn dibynnu'n llwyr ar y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg, yw'r meini prawf cymhwysedd pan fo'r person ifanc yn ofalwr. Ar hyn o bryd, rhaid i'w lefel presenoldeb fod yn 100 y cant er mwyn cael y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg. Ac un o'r pethau a welwn dro ar ôl tro hefyd yw cynnydd mewn costau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn effeithio arnynt rhag gallu cyrraedd y coleg ac ati i sicrhau presenoldeb 100 y cant. Felly, rwy'n credu bod angen inni edrych arno yn awr. Yn ystod y pandemig, gwelsom fwy o golegau'n defnyddio Teams ac yn y blaen, a gallai pobl ymuno o bell, ond mae hynny'n cael ei dynnu'n ôl eto yn awr gan golegau, ac mae'r pwyslais ar fod yn bresennol yn gorfforol yn creu rhwystr mewn gwirionedd. Rwy'n credu bod angen inni gofleidio'r hyn a ddigwyddodd yn ystod y pandemig gyda phobl yn gallu ymuno o bell, oherwydd os na ellir cynyddu'r swm o arian a roddir drwy'r lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg ar hyn o bryd, gallwn o leiaf ei gwneud yn haws i fyfyrwyr allu bod yn bresennol a sicrhau nad ydynt yn colli'r taliadau hanfodol hyn, sy'n golygu eu bod yn rhoi'r gorau i addysg am nad yw eu teuluoedd yn gallu fforddio peidio â chael y £30 yr wythnos. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio'n fawr y gall y Gweinidog weithio gyda cholegau i sicrhau bod y cymhwysedd yno ac nad yw pobl wedyn yn cael eu cosbi os na allant sicrhau eu bod yn bresennol 100 y cant o'r amser oherwydd llu o bethau sydd y tu hwnt i'w rheolaeth, gan gynnwys yr argyfwng costau byw.

18:20

Diolch yn fawr iawn iti, Luke, am ddod â hwn ger ein bron heddiw a gadael i fi gyfrannu yn y ddadl yma sydd, dwi'n gwybod, yn bwysig iawn, iawn i ti.

Thank you, Luke, for bringing this issue forward today and allowing me to contribute to this debate, which, I know, is very important to you.

We've heard from Heledd just then about the—. And I want to go on from what Heledd was saying: the charity Barnardo's Cymru go as far as describing the EMA as a lifeline for many young people that they help. They go as far as saying that it can be the difference between a young carer being able to go into education or not. Unfortunately, many of these young carers end up being penalised, as Heledd said, through their EMA payments due to lateness or absence, which are often caused by their caring responsibilities. Minister, I hope you agree with me that a missed payment for these young people, who are only trying to improve their prospects but have extra responsibilities beyond their years, is wholly unfair. And Minister, would you also please explain to us what sort of level of care or protection is given to young people in receipt of EMA, especially young carers, to make sure that they are not exploited by third parties? Diolch yn fawr.

Clywsom gan Heledd yn awr am y—. Ac rwyf am ddilyn ymlaen o'r hyn yr oedd Heledd yn ei ddweud: mae'r elusen Barnardo's Cymru'n mynd cyn belled â disgrifio'r lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg fel rhaff achub i lawer o'r bobl ifanc y maent yn eu helpu. Maent yn mynd cyn belled â dweud y gall olygu'r gwahaniaeth rhwng gofalwr ifanc yn gallu neu'n methu mynd i fyd addysg. Yn anffodus, mae llawer o'r gofalwyr ifanc hyn yn cael eu cosbi yn y pen draw, fel y dywedodd Heledd, drwy eu taliadau lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg oherwydd eu bod yn hwyr neu'n absennol, a achosir yn aml gan eu cyfrifoldebau gofalu. Weinidog, rwy'n gobeithio eich bod yn cytuno â mi fod taliad a gollwyd i'r bobl ifanc hyn, sydd ond yn ceisio gwella eu rhagolygon ond sydd â chyfrifoldebau ychwanegol y tu hwnt i'r disgwyl i rai eu hoedran hwy, yn gwbl annheg. Ac a wnewch chi egluro i ni hefyd pa fath o lefel o ofal neu ddiogelwch sy'n cael ei roi i bobl ifanc sy'n cael y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg, yn enwedig gofalwyr ifanc, i wneud yn siŵr nad oes trydydd partïon yn camfanteisio arnynt? Diolch yn fawr.

I thank Luke Fletcher for bringing this debate. I think it's really useful to remind us that the EMA hasn't been uprated since 2004; it clearly buys a lot less than it used to that long ago. It is a vital—. Even the reduced amount that it currently buys, is still a really, really vital way of enabling young people to stay in education who otherwise might be pushed into going into a job that leads nowhere. It's absolutely vital that we encourage people to stay on in education post 16, so that we have the workforce we need to do all the new tasks that society requires, particularly with the net-zero plan. We need to train up huge numbers of people in clean, green jobs, as well as enabling people to get those entry-level qualifications, whether it's in social and healthcare, or in other sectors that they may want to spend their life in.

I think it's worrying that a lot of learners are unaware of the EMA, because what are schools, colleges and FE institutions doing if they're not promoting it? I think it'd be good to hear from the Minister about that and what we can do about it. Because it's a similar story with the healthy eating voucher, as some people are not getting that, or large numbers of people are not getting that, and we certainly need to maximise all the benefits that people should be able to get in these very, very difficult times.

Diolch i Luke Fletcher am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn ddefnyddiol iawn i'n hatgoffa nad yw'r lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg wedi cael ei uwchraddio ers 2004; mae'n amlwg yn prynu llawer llai nag yr arferai ei wneud ers talwm. Mae'n hanfodol—. Er gwaethaf y swm llai y mae'n ei brynu ar hyn o bryd, mae'n dal i fod yn ffordd wirioneddol hanfodol o alluogi pobl ifanc i aros mewn addysg a allai, fel arall, gael eu gwthio i swydd sy'n arwain i unman. Mae'n gwbl hanfodol ein bod yn annog pobl i aros yn eu haddysg ar ôl 16, fel bod gennym y gweithlu sydd eu hangen arnom i wneud yr holl dasgau newydd y mae cymdeithas eu hangen, yn enwedig gyda'r cynllun sero net. Mae angen inni hyfforddi nifer enfawr o bobl mewn swyddi glân a gwyrdd, yn ogystal â galluogi pobl i gael cymwysterau lefel mynediad, boed mewn gofal cymdeithasol a gofal iechyd, neu mewn sectorau eraill y gallent fod eisiau treulio eu bywyd ynddynt.

Rwy'n meddwl ei fod yn destun pryder fod yna lawer o ddysgwyr nad ydynt yn ymwybodol o'r lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg, oherwydd beth y mae ysgolion, colegau a sefydliadau addysg bellach yn ei wneud os nad ydynt yn ei hyrwyddo? Rwy'n credu y byddai'n dda clywed gan y Gweinidog am hynny a beth y gallwn ni ei wneud am y peth. Oherwydd mae'n stori debyg gyda'r daleb bwyta'n iach, gan nad yw rhai pobl yn cael honno, neu mae yna nifer fawr o bobl nad ydynt yn ei chael, ac yn sicr mae angen inni wneud y mwyaf o'r holl fudd-daliadau y dylai pobl allu eu cael yn y cyfnod hynod anodd hwn.

Galwaf yn awr ar Weinidog y Gymraeg ac Addysg i ymateb i'r ddadl. Jeremy Miles.

I now call on the Minister for Education and Welsh language to reply to the debate. Jeremy Miles.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Fel Llywodraeth, rŷn ni'n cydnabod yr effaith bositif y mae'r lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg yn gallu ei gael ar bobl ifanc. Dyna pam rydym ni, yn ystod y blynyddoedd o gyni a orfodwyd ar Gymru gan y Llywodraeth glymblaid, wedi ceisio diogelu'r lwfans, yn wahanol i Loegr, lle gwnaed i ffwrdd ag ef yn 2011. A ninnau nawr, unwaith eto, yn wynebu cyfnod ariannol anhygoel o anodd, ydyn, rydyn ni’n dal i fod wedi ymrwymo yn unol â’n rhaglen lywodraethu i gynnal y lwfans. Ochr yn ochr â'n hymrwymiadau eraill i bobl ifanc, ac ar gost flynyddol o £17 miliwn, mae’r lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg yn ei wneud e’n bosib i fwy na 18,000 o bobl ifanc barhau mewn addysg ôl-orfodol bob blwyddyn. Mae bron i un o bob tri—31 y cant—o fyfyrwyr llawn amser sy’n bodloni’r meini prawf cymwys o ran oed yn cael cymorth trwy’r lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg.

Mae cyfradd taliadau presenoldeb y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg, sef £30 yr wythnos, yn gyson â’r hyn sydd ar gael yn yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon. Wrth gwrs, dwi’n deall bod yna bryderon, yn enwedig mewn cyfnod o argyfwng, nad yw’r lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg wedi cynyddu ers peth amser. Dwi’n cydnabod gwaith Sefydliad Bevan ac yn parhau i groesawu eu safbwyntiau o ran lle y gallwn ni wella ymhellach ein hymrwymiad i bobl ifanc. Dwi’n sylweddoli bod pobl ifanc hefyd yn teimlo straen ariannol yr argyfwng costau byw sy’n bodoli ar hyn o bryd. Ond ar adeg pan fo'n rhaid inni i gyd fynd i’r afael â’r pwysau newydd ar wariant, dyw hi wir ddim yn bosib cynyddu cyfradd y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg o £30 i £45. Rydyn ni’n amcangyfrif y byddai gwneud hynny yn golygu £8.5 miliwn yn rhagor y flwyddyn. Hefyd, er fy mod i’n deall nad yw’r trothwy ar gyfer ystyried aelwyd person ifanc yn gymwys i gael y lwfans wedi newid, byddai’r £8.5 miliwn ychwanegol a fyddai ei angen i gynyddu’r gyfradd yn codi i fwy na £15 miliwn y flwyddyn pe baem ni’n cyflwyno’r newidiadau hyn.

Thank you. As a Government, we acknowledge the positive impact that the education maintenance allowance can have on young people. That's why we, during the years of austerity forced on Wales by the coalition Government, have tried to safeguard the allowance, as opposed to what happened in England, where it was abolished in 2011. And now we face another extremely difficult financial situation, we are still committed, in accordance with our programme for government, to maintaining the allowance. Alongside our other commitments for young people, and at an annual cost of £17 million, the EMA makes it possible for more than 18,000 young people to continue in post-compulsory education every year. Almost one in three—31 per cent—of full-time students who meet the eligibility criteria in terms of age receive support through the EMA.

The current payment rate in terms of attendance, namely £30 a week, is consistent with what is available in Northern Ireland and Scotland. Of course, I understand that there are concerns, particularly at a time of crisis, that the EMA hasn’t increased for some time. I acknowledge the work of the Bevan Foundation and continue to welcome their views in terms of where we can make further improvement in terms of our commitment to young people. I realise that young people also are feeling financial pressures as a result of the cost-of-living crisis that we are currently facing. But, at a time when we all have to get to grips with this new pressure on spending, it isn’t possible to increase the level of the EMA from £30 to £45. We estimate that doing so would mean £8.5 million in addition annually. Also, even though I understand that the threshold for considering a young person’s household to be eligible hasn't changed, the additional £8.5 million that would be required to increase the rate would increase to more than £15 million a year if we were to introduce these changes as suggested.

Due to the rapid rise in inflation, Dirprwy Lywydd, we know that, overall, our budget will be worth around £4 billion less over this three-year period than previously thought. Effectively, this is a cut to our budget. Without any additional funding from the UK Government or cuts to our existing programme for government and co-operation agreement commitments, maintaining EMA is where our ambition will have to rest for now. Despite our limitations in increasing the rate of EMA we have expanded the eligible cohort to include some of the most vulnerable young people in Wales. This includes those impacted by Brexit, family members of those with protected immigration status, and, more recently, the expansion to include young people fleeing the war in Ukraine.

All young people can apply for EMA at any point in the academic year, and where their family circumstances change, resulting in a drop in income, we encourage young people to apply for EMA with a current-year income assessment. Our schools and colleges work closely with their learners to ensure that they are receiving the support they are entitled to. Young people in receipt of EMA can also access a range of additional support. Schools and colleges can often loan ICT equipment and learning resources, removing the need for their EMA to be spent on essential course items. They may also be able to get free or subsidised transport during their course from their local authority. Over £6 million has been provided to further education institutes, y Ganolfan Dysgu Cymraeg Cenedlaethol and the Open University in Wales for the academic year 2022-23 for the financial contingency fund. The fund aims to ensure that learners across Wales, including those in receipt of EMA, are not inhibited by financial constraints. For example, eligible learners can receive additional money towards course fees, course materials, childcare costs, food and other study-related items. For the academic year 2022-23, access to the FCF has been extended to include asylum seekers and any learner eligible under the post-16 funding eligibility for mainstream funding.

More broadly, all schools and further education institutions in Wales have been provided with funding to ensure learners have access to free period products and free meals during college holidays, a combined package of support worth over £1.5 million. Laying the foundation for post-compulsory education starts at the foundation phase, and we provide a wide range of support for learners as they progress through school. As per the co-operation agreement, £35 million of new capital funding has been provided to local authorities to invest in improvements to school catering facilities and £200 million has been committed for the day-to-day provision over the next three years to roll out free school meals in all Welsh primary schools.

To conclude, Dirprwy Lywydd, while we remain restricted in our ability to uplift the rate of EMA, as a Government we continue to respond to the current crisis with wide-reaching programmes of household support that seek to help our young people and their families on low incomes. We will continue to use every single lever available to us to support our young people and to ensure that money is never a barrier to accessing education.

Yn sgil y cynnydd cyflym mewn chwyddiant, Ddirprwy Lywydd, rydym yn gwybod, ar y cyfan, y bydd ein cyllideb yn werth tua £4 biliwn yn llai dros y cyfnod hwn o dair blynedd nag a dybiwyd o'r blaen. I bob pwrpas, mae hyn yn doriad i'n cyllideb. Heb unrhyw arian ychwanegol gan Lywodraeth y DU na thoriadau i ymrwymiadau ein rhaglen lywodraethu bresennol a'r cytundeb cydweithio, bydd rhaid i'n huchelgais orffwys am y tro gyda chynnal y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg. Er gwaethaf y cyfyngiadau ar gynyddu cyfradd y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg rydym wedi ehangu'r garfan gymwys i gynnwys rhai o'r bobl ifanc fwyaf agored i niwed yng Nghymru. Mae hyn yn cynnwys y rhai yr effeithiwyd arnynt gan Brexit, aelodau teuluol y rhai sydd â statws mewnfudo gwarchodedig, ac yn fwy diweddar, yr ehangu i gynnwys pobl ifanc sy'n ffoi rhag y rhyfel yn Wcráin.

Gall pob person ifanc wneud cais am lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg ar unrhyw adeg yn y flwyddyn academaidd, a lle mae eu hamgylchiadau teuluol yn newid, gan arwain at ostyngiad mewn incwm, rydym yn annog pobl ifanc i wneud cais am lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg gydag asesiad incwm y flwyddyn gyfredol. Mae ein hysgolion a'n colegau'n gweithio'n agos gyda'u dysgwyr i sicrhau eu bod yn cael y cymorth y mae ganddynt hawl iddo. Gall pobl ifanc sy'n derbyn lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg gael mynediad at ystod o gymorth ychwanegol hefyd. Yn aml gall ysgolion a cholegau fenthyg offer TGCh ac adnoddau dysgu, gan gael gwared ar yr angen i wario eu lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg ar eitemau cwrs hanfodol. Mae'n bosibl hefyd y gallant gael cludiant am ddim neu wedi'i sybsideiddio yn ystod eu cwrs gan eu hawdurdod lleol. Mae dros £6 miliwn wedi'i ddarparu i sefydliadau addysg bellach, y Ganolfan Dysgu Cymraeg Genedlaethol a'r Brifysgol Agored yng Nghymru yn y flwyddyn academaidd 2022-23 ar gyfer y gronfa ariannol wrth gefn. Nod y gronfa yw sicrhau nad yw dysgwyr ledled Cymru, yn cynnwys y rhai sy'n derbyn lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg, yn cael eu rhwystro gan gyfyngiadau ariannol. Er enghraifft, gall dysgwyr cymwys dderbyn arian ychwanegol tuag at ffioedd cwrs, deunyddiau cwrs, costau gofal plant, bwyd ac eitemau eraill sy'n gysylltiedig ag astudio. Ar gyfer y flwyddyn academaidd 2022-23, mae mynediad at y gronfa ariannol wrth gefn wedi cael ei ymestyn i gynnwys ceiswyr lloches ac unrhyw ddysgwr sy'n gymwys o dan y cymhwysedd cyllid ôl-16 ar gyfer cyllid prif ffrwd.

Yn fwy cyffredinol, mae pob ysgol a sefydliad addysg bellach yng Nghymru wedi cael cyllid i sicrhau bod dysgwyr yn cael mynediad at gynhyrchion mislif am ddim a phrydau bwyd am ddim yn ystod gwyliau coleg, pecyn cymorth cyfunol sy'n werth dros £1.5 miliwn. Mae gosod y sylfaen ar gyfer addysg ôl-orfodol yn cychwyn yn y cyfnod sylfaen, ac rydym yn darparu ystod eang o gymorth i ddysgwyr wrth iddynt gamu ymlaen drwy'r ysgol. Yn unol â'r cytundeb cydweithio, rhoddwyd £35 miliwn o gyllid cyfalaf newydd i awdurdodau lleol i'w fuddsoddi mewn gwelliannau i gyfleusterau arlwyo ysgolion ac mae £200 miliwn wedi'i ymrwymo ar gyfer y ddarpariaeth o ddydd i ddydd dros y tair blynedd nesaf i gyflwyno prydau ysgol am ddim ym mhob ysgol gynradd yng Nghymru.

I orffen, Ddirprwy Lywydd, er ein bod yn parhau i fod yn gyfyngedig yn ein gallu i godi cyfradd y lwfans cynhaliaeth addysg, fel Llywodraeth rydym yn parhau i ymateb i'r argyfwng presennol gyda rhaglenni pellgyrhaeddol o gymorth i aelwydydd gyda'r nod o helpu ein pobl ifanc a'u teuluoedd sydd ar incwm isel. Byddwn yn parhau i ddefnyddio pob dull sydd ar gael i ni i gefnogi ein pobl ifanc ac i sicrhau nad yw arian byth yn rhwystr i gael mynediad at addysg.

18:30

Diolch i’r Gweinidog, a diolch, bawb. Daw hynny â thrafodion heddiw i ben.

I thank the Minister, and thank you, everyone. That brings today’s proceedings to a close.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 18:30.

The meeting ended at 18:30.