Y Cyfarfod Llawn - Y Bumed Senedd

Plenary - Fifth Senedd

03/03/2021

Cynnwys

Contents

Datganiad gan y Llywydd Statement by the Llywydd
1. Cwestiynau i Weinidog yr Economi, Trafnidiaeth a Gogledd Cymru 1. Questions to the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales
2. Cwestiynau i'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol a'r Gweinidog Pontio Ewropeaidd (yn rhinwedd ei gyfrifoldebau fel y Gweinidog Pontio Ewropeaidd) 2. Questions to the Counsel General and Minister for European Transition (in respect of his European Transition responsibilities)
3. Cwestiynau Amserol 3. Topical Questions
4. Datganiadau 90 Eiliad 4. 90-second Statements
5. Cynnig i ddirymu Rheoliadau Adnoddau Dŵr (Rheoli Llygredd Amaethyddol) (Cymru) 2021 5. Motion to Annul The Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) Regulations 2021
6. Dadl ar Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon: Ymchwiliad i effaith COVID-19, a'r modd y mae'n cael ei reoli, ar iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru: Adroddiad 2—Yr effaith ar iechyd meddwl a llesiant 6. Debate on the Health, Social Care and Sport report: Inquiry into the impact of the Covid-19 outbreak, and its management, on health and social care in Wales: Report 2—Impact on mental health and wellbeing
7. Dadl ar ddeisebau ynghylch rhaglen frechu COVID-19: P-05-1117 'Rhowch y Brechlyn Covid i Swyddogion yr Heddlu fel blaenoriaeth', P-05-1119, 'Blaenoriaethu athrawon, a staff ysgolion a gofal plant ar gyfer brechiadau COVID-19' 7. Debate on petitions concerning the COVID-19 vaccination programme: P-05-1117 'Give Police Officers the Covid Vaccination as a priority', P-05-1119 'Prioritise teachers, school and childcare staff for COVID-19 vaccination'
8. Dadl ar ddeisebau ynghylch datblygu Canolfan Ganser Felindre newydd: P-05-1001 'Cynnal ymchwiliad annibynnol i'r dewis o safle ar gyfer y Ganolfan Ganser Felindre newydd arfaethedig', P-05-1018 'Cefnogaeth ar gyfer y cynlluniau arfaethedig presennol i adeiladu Canolfan Ganser Felindre newydd yng Nghaerdydd mewn unrhyw ymchwiliad yn y dyfodol' 8. Debate on petitions concerning the development of a new Velindre Cancer Centre: P-05-1001 'Hold an independent inquiry into the choice of site for the proposed new Velindre Cancer Centre', P-05-1018 'Support for the current proposed plans to build a new Velindre Cancer Centre, Cardiff, in any future inquiry'
9. Dadl Grŵp y Gynghrair Annibynnol dros Ddiwygio: Buddsoddiad mewn ysgolion 9. Independent Alliance for Reform Group Debate: Investment in schools
10. Cyfnod Pleidleisio 10. Voting Time
11. Dadl Fer: Addasu tai Cymru nawr ar gyfer pobol sydd yn byw gyda Clefyd Motor Niwron: sut allwn ni wneud yn sicr fod pobl sydd yn byw gyda MND yn cael cartrefi diogel a hygyrch, gan gadw eu annibyniaeth, urddas ag ansawdd bywyd 11. Short Debate: Adapt now Welsh homes for motor neurone disease: how can we make sure people living with MND have safe and accessible homes, maintaining independence, dignity and quality of life

Yn y fersiwn ddwyieithog, mae’r golofn chwith yn cynnwys yr iaith a lefarwyd yn y cyfarfod. Mae’r golofn dde yn cynnwys cyfieithiad o’r areithiau hynny.

In the bilingual version, the left-hand column includes the language used during the meeting. The right-hand column includes a translation of those speeches.

Cyfarfu'r Senedd drwy gynhadledd fideo am 13:29 gyda'r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair. 

The Senedd met by video-conference at 13:29 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

Datganiad gan y Llywydd
Statement by the Llywydd

Croeso, bawb, i'r Cyfarfod Llawn. Cyn i ni ddechrau, dwi angen nodi ychydig o bwyntiau. Mae Cyfarfod Llawn a gynhelir drwy gynhadledd fideo, yn unol â Rheolau Sefydlog Senedd Cymru, yn gyfystyr â thrafodion y Senedd at ddibenion Deddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006. Bydd rhai o ddarpariaethau Rheol Sefydlog 34 yn gymwys ar gyfer y Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw, ac mae'r rheini wedi'u nodi ar eich agenda chi. A dwi eisiau atgoffa Aelodau am y Rheolau Sefydlog sydd yn ymwneud â threfn yn y cyfarfod, ac mae'r rheini'n berthnasol i'r cyfarfod yma.

Welcome to this Plenary session. Before we begin, I want to set out a few points. A Plenary meeting held by video-conference, in accordance with the Standing Orders of the Welsh Parliament, constitutes Senedd proceedings for the purposes of the Government of Wales Act 2006. Some of the provisions of Standing Order 34 will apply for today's Plenary meeting, and these are set out on your agenda. And I would remind Members that Standing Orders relating to order in Plenary meetings apply to this meeting.

13:30
1. Cwestiynau i Weinidog yr Economi, Trafnidiaeth a Gogledd Cymru
1. Questions to the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales

Yr eitem gyntaf ar yr agenda, felly, y prynhawn yma yw'r cwestiynau i Weinidog yr Economi, Trafnidiaeth a'r Gogledd, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Paul Davies.

The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales, and the first question is from Paul Davies.

Cymorth Busnes
Business Support

1. Sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn sicrhau bod busnesau yn sir Benfro yn gallu cael mynediad at gymorth busnes yn ystod y pandemig? OQ56341

1. How is the Welsh Government ensuring that businesses in Pembrokeshire are able to access business support during the pandemic? OQ56341

Llywydd, can I first of all say that local authorities are doing a fantastic job in helping the Welsh Government deliver the non-domestic-rates-related grants as quickly as possible? And the restrictions business fund has so far seen almost 4,000 businesses in Pembrokeshire receive over £13 million. In addition, Business Wales has dealt with over 50,000 queries and received more than 8 million website hits since the start of the pandemic.

Lywydd, a gaf fi ddweud yn gyntaf fod awdurdodau lleol yn gwneud gwaith gwych wrth gynorthwyo Llywodraeth Cymru i ddarparu’r grantiau sy’n gysylltiedig ag ardrethi annomestig cyn gynted â phosibl? Ac mae'r gronfa i fusnesau dan gyfyngiadau wedi darparu dros £13 miliwn i bron i 4,000 o fusnesau yn Sir Benfro hyd yn hyn. Yn ogystal, mae Busnes Cymru wedi ymdrin â dros 50,000 o ymholiadau ac wedi cael mwy nag 8 miliwn o ymweliadau â’u gwefan ers dechrau'r pandemig.

Thank you, Minister, for that response. Now, the Welsh Government has made it clear that local authorities have some discretion in relation to providing businesses affected by COVID-19 with financial support. However, I have received representations from businesses in my constituency who have been unable to access support, while I'm told that other similar businesses in other parts of Wales have received the financial support that they need. I'm sure you can appreciate how frustrating this is for businesses in Pembrokeshire who see businesses in other parts of Wales receiving much-needed support. I'm sure you'll agree with me that it's essential that there is consistency across Wales and that funds being provided by the Welsh Government are not subject to a postcode lottery. Therefore, can you tell us, Minister, what the Welsh Government is doing to iron out these inconsistencies and ensure that businesses are able to access the financial support that they need to stay afloat, wherever they are based in Wales?

Diolch am eich ymateb, Weinidog. Nawr, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi dweud yn glir fod rhywfaint o ddisgresiwn gan awdurdodau lleol mewn perthynas â darparu cymorth ariannol i fusnesau yr effeithir arnynt gan COVID-19. Fodd bynnag, rwyf wedi derbyn sylwadau gan fusnesau yn fy etholaeth nad ydynt wedi gallu cael mynediad at gymorth, er y dywedir wrthyf fod busnesau tebyg eraill mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru wedi derbyn y cymorth ariannol sydd ei angen arnynt. Rwy'n siŵr y gallwch ddeall pa mor rhwystredig yw hyn i fusnesau yn Sir Benfro sy'n gweld busnesau mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru yn derbyn cymorth mawr ei angen. Rwy'n siŵr y byddwch yn cytuno â mi ei bod yn hanfodol sicrhau cysondeb ledled Cymru, ac nad yw’r arian a ddarperir gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn seiliedig ar loteri cod post. Felly, a allwch ddweud wrthym, Weinidog, beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i gael gwared ar yr anghysondebau hyn ac i sicrhau bod busnesau'n gallu cael mynediad at y cymorth ariannol sydd ei angen arnynt i oroesi, ble bynnag y maent wedi'u lleoli yng Nghymru?

Well, can I thank Paul Davies for his question and say that, first of all, Welsh Government officials have engaged recently with the Welsh Local Government Association and directly with councils across the length and breadth of Wales regarding discretionary grants? The issue that Paul Davies raises has focused most sharply on self-catering businesses, and there is criteria that is set in place that is suggested for local authorities, and it's quite clear. Obviously, we would wish to see all businesses eligible through that criteria receive the funding that would enable them to see their way through the pandemic. But if any business feels that they have been unfairly treated, if they are dissatisfied with the way that their local authority has interpreted the criteria, then they should consider taking the matter up with the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales. But, in Welsh Government, we remain absolutely resolute in our pledge to ensure that any good business in 2019 will be a good business in 2021, and that's why we're spending more than £2 billion in supporting businesses through this pandemic.

Wel, a gaf fi ddiolch i Paul Davies am ei gwestiwn a dweud, yn gyntaf oll, fod swyddogion Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymgysylltu'n ddiweddar â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru ac yn uniongyrchol â chynghorau ledled Cymru ynghylch grantiau dewisol? Mae'r mater y mae Paul Davies yn ei godi wedi canolbwyntio fwyaf ar fusnesau llety hunanddarpar, ac mae meini prawf ar waith sy'n cael eu hawgrymu ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol, ac mae hynny’n gwbl eglur. Yn amlwg, hoffem weld pob busnes sy'n gymwys drwy'r meini prawf hynny'n derbyn yr arian a fyddai'n eu galluogi i oroesi drwy'r pandemig. Ond os oes unrhyw fusnes yn teimlo eu bod wedi cael eu trin yn annheg, os ydynt yn anfodlon â'r ffordd y mae eu hawdurdod lleol wedi dehongli'r meini prawf, dylent ystyried codi'r mater gydag Ombwdsmon Gwasanaethau Cyhoeddus Cymru. Ond yn Llywodraeth Cymru, rydym yn parhau i fod yn gwbl ddiwyro yn ein haddewid i sicrhau y bydd unrhyw fusnes da yn 2019 yn fusnes da yn 2021, a dyna pam ein bod yn gwario mwy na £2 biliwn ar gefnogi busnesau drwy'r pandemig hwn.

Llifogydd
Flooding

2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am effaith y llifogydd diweddar ar y rhwydwaith cefnffyrdd? OQ56342

2. Will the Minister make a statement on the effect of recent flooding on the trunk road network? OQ56342

Yes, of course. We're aware of the disruption, obviously, the flooding has caused for road users, and we're working closely with local authorities and other partners to find long-term solutions for some of the areas most prone to flooding.

Gwnaf, wrth gwrs. Yn amlwg, rydym yn ymwybodol o'r tarfu ar ddefnyddwyr ffyrdd yn sgil y llifogydd, ac rydym yn gweithio'n agos gydag awdurdodau lleol a phartneriaid eraill i ddod o hyd i atebion hirdymor ar gyfer rhai o'r ardaloedd mwyaf tebygol o gael llifogydd.

Diolch, Minister, for that answer. As you drive along the M4, as I have done over recent times, the electric signs often display the notice that the A4042 at Llanellen is closed. I've raised this part of the trunk road network with you on many occasions before. I know that, in previous answers, you've said that there has been a degree, I think, of remedial work—or negotiations with the landowner about remedial work—to try and mitigate these problems. It does, however, remain to be an issue, and I am concerned about the effect of communications to the new Grange University Hospital at Llanfrechfa. So, I wonder if you could update us on any discussions that you or your officials have had with the landowner, any further remedial works that are under way or that are in the pipeline, and just what reassurances can you give to my constituents that the problems of this section—an important section—of the trunk road network will be resolved over the medium term so that people can have confidence that the communications to the new hospital are sound?

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Wrth ichi yrru ar hyd yr M4, fel rwyf wedi bod yn ei wneud yn ddiweddar, mae'r arwyddion trydanol yn aml yn rhybuddio bod yr A4042 yn Llanelen ar gau. Rwyf wedi crybwyll y rhan hon o'r rhwydwaith cefnffyrdd wrthych ar sawl achlysur o'r blaen. Gwn eich bod, mewn atebion blaenorol, wedi dweud bod ychydig, rwy'n credu, o waith adfer wedi’i wneud—neu drafodaethau gyda'r tirfeddiannwr ynghylch gwaith adfer—i geisio lliniaru'r problemau hyn. Fodd bynnag, mae'n parhau i fod yn broblem, ac rwy'n poeni am effaith y cysylltiad ag Ysbyty Athrofaol newydd Y Faenor yn Llanfrechfa. Felly, tybed a allech roi diweddariad i ni ar unrhyw drafodaethau rydych chi neu'ch swyddogion wedi'u cael gyda'r tirfeddiannwr, unrhyw waith adfer pellach sy’n mynd rhagddo neu sydd yn yr arfaeth, a pha sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi i fy etholwyr y bydd problemau'r darn hwn—darn pwysig—o'r rhwydwaith cefnffyrdd yn cael eu datrys dros y tymor canolig fel y gall pobl fod yn hyderus fod y cysylltiad â'r ysbyty newydd mewn sefyllfa gadarn?

Llywydd, can I thank Nick Ramsay for his question and offer an update and information regarding the A4042 at Llanellen? We carried out drainage work, as the Member is aware, back in May 2020, to enhance the existing drainage. This has helped with quicker recovery and reopening time for the A4042 in the event of a flooding of the carriageway. And as Nick Ramsay rightly said, in recent years, the adjacent land has also been subject to drainage improvements, which has helped in reducing the frequency and magnitude of flooding for this stretch of road. Now, I can say that recent improvements to land drainage at this location are currently being assessed for their effectiveness in dealing with recent flooding events, and I can assure Members that once this information is available, and it hopefully will be within the next few weeks, officials will then determine whether further mitigation works are required. 

Lywydd, a gaf fi ddiolch i Nick Ramsay am ei gwestiwn a chynnig diweddariad a gwybodaeth am yr A4042 yn Llanelen? Gwnaethom waith draenio, fel y gŵyr yr Aelod, yn ôl ym mis Mai 2020, i wella'r draenio presennol. Mae hyn wedi helpu gydag amser adfer ac ailagor cyflymach ar gyfer yr A4042 pan fo llifogydd ar y ffordd. Ac fel y dywedodd Nick Ramsay, yn gwbl gywir, yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf, gwnaed gwelliannau draenio ar y tir cyfagos hefyd, sydd wedi bod o gymorth i leihau amlder a maint y llifogydd ar y darn hwn o'r ffordd. Nawr, gallaf ddweud bod y gwelliannau diweddar i systemau draenio tir yn y lleoliad hwn yn cael eu hasesu ar hyn o bryd i weld pa mor effeithiol oeddent i ymdrin â digwyddiadau llifogydd diweddar, a gallaf roi sicrwydd i’r Aelodau, pan fydd y wybodaeth hon ar gael, ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd hynny o fewn yr wythnosau nesaf, y bydd swyddogion wedyn yn penderfynu a oes angen gwaith lliniaru pellach.

13:35
Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Helen Mary Jones. 

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Helen Mary Jones. 

Diolch, Llywydd. I'd like to begin my set of questions, since this is the final set of questions that I will be asking the Minister, by once again thanking him for the constructive way in which he's engaged with me and with other opposition parties through the time of the crisis. It's certainly been greatly appreciated by me, and I feel that it has helped us to engage constructively and to help support business as best we can at this very difficult time. 

If I can begin with some points with regard to current business support, the Minister mentioned in his response to Paul Davies the local government discretionary fund. He'll be aware that it has been put to me by some colleagues in local government that there are some concerns from their finance department about fully exercising discretion in case this raises issues further down the line through the audit process. I wonder if the Minister can update us on any further conversations that he's had with local government to assure them that they will not be negatively impacted by the audit process if they do fully exercise discretion to reach as many businesses as possible. 

If I can now turn to the new fund for hospitality businesses that will be opening next week, I obviously welcome the targeted support for those businesses most badly affected, but I am concerned that it appears that this fund is only available to those businesses employing 10 employees or more. I wonder if the Minister can tell us today whether that is 10 full-time equivalents or 10 individuals, because he'll be very aware that many people who work in hospitality work in part-time roles. And can he explain what the plans are for smaller businesses, because many hospitality businesses do not employ, certainly, 10 full-time equivalents?

And, finally, is there any risk that some of the money currently available for business support will be lost if it's not spent by the end of the financial year, and is the Minister confident that his department has the capacity to get those funds out to ensure that businesses are helped in a timely way, but also to ensure that no funding intended for Welsh businesses is lost?

Diolch, Lywydd. Hoffwn ddechrau fy set o gwestiynau, gan mai hon yw’r set olaf o gwestiynau y byddaf yn eu gofyn i'r Gweinidog, drwy ddiolch iddo unwaith eto am y ffordd adeiladol y mae wedi ymgysylltu â mi a’r gwrthbleidiau eraill drwy gydol yr argyfwng. Yn sicr,  rwyf wedi gwerthfawrogi hynny'n fawr, a theimlaf fod hynny wedi ein helpu i ymgysylltu'n adeiladol ac i helpu i gefnogi busnesau hyd eithaf ein gallu ar yr adeg anodd hon.

Os caf ddechrau gyda rhai pwyntiau ynghylch cymorth busnes cyfredol, soniodd y Gweinidog yn ei ymateb i Paul Davies am gronfa ddewisol llywodraeth leol. Fe fydd yn ymwybodol fod rhai cydweithwyr mewn llywodraeth leol wedi dweud wrthyf fod eu hadran gyllid yn pryderu ynghylch arfer disgresiwn yn llawn rhag ofn y bydd hyn yn creu problemau maes o law drwy'r broses archwilio. Tybed a all y Gweinidog roi diweddariad i ni ar unrhyw sgyrsiau pellach a gafodd gyda llywodraeth leol i roi sicrwydd iddynt na fydd y broses archwilio yn effeithio'n negyddol arnynt os ydynt yn arfer disgresiwn yn llawn i gyrraedd cymaint o fusnesau â phosibl.

Os caf droi yn awr at y gronfa newydd ar gyfer busnesau lletygarwch a fydd yn agor yr wythnos nesaf, rwy’n amlwg yn croesawu’r cymorth wedi’i dargedu ar gyfer y busnesau hynny yr effeithir arnynt waethaf, ond rwy’n pryderu ei bod yn ymddangos mai dim ond i fusnesau sy’n cyflogi 10 o weithwyr neu fwy y mae’r gronfa hon ar gael. Tybed a all y Gweinidog ddweud wrthym heddiw a yw hynny’n golygu 10 gweithiwr cyfwerth ag amser llawn neu 10 unigolyn, gan y bydd yn ymwybodol iawn fod llawer o bobl sy'n gweithio ym maes lletygarwch yn gweithio mewn rolau rhan-amser. Ac a all egluro beth yw'r cynlluniau ar gyfer busnesau llai, gan nad yw llawer o fusnesau lletygarwch, yn sicr, yn cyflogi 10 gweithiwr cyfwerth ag amser llawn?

Ac yn olaf, a oes unrhyw risg y bydd peth o'r arian sydd ar gael ar hyn o bryd ar gyfer cymorth busnes yn cael ei golli os na chaiff ei wario erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn ariannol, ac a yw'r Gweinidog yn hyderus fod gan ei adran gapasiti i ddosbarthu’r arian hwnnw er mwyn sicrhau bod busnesau'n cael cymorth mewn modd amserol, ond hefyd i sicrhau nad oes unrhyw arian a fwriedir ar gyfer busnesau Cymru yn cael ei golli?

Can I thank Helen Mary Jones for her questions? And, first of all, I very much welcome the very kind words that she began her line of questions with today. I've been very fortunate, I believe, during my time in this role, to have had incredibly constructive opposition spokespeople, including Helen Mary Jones. I'm really grateful for the constructive way in which opposition spokespeople, and, indeed, Members across the Chamber, have been able to work with me and with my officials over the past five years, and we've tried to reach out, just as I know that other Ministers have tried to reach out, to get the best possible ideas from across the Chamber, because we have no monopoly on good ideas, and sometimes the finest results come when we work together. So, I'd like to thank everybody, including Helen Mary Jones, for such a constructive relationship during my time in this post.

And if I can just answer the last question first, and that regards the speed at which money needs to get to businesses to avoid any unspent investment. Speed has been a key determining factor in the way that we've developed support systems, and local authorities, along with Welsh Government and Business Wales, have done a remarkable job in ensuring that money is in the accounts of businesses as soon as possible. So, it gives us confidence to say that we will be spending the money that has been allocated to business support, which of course amounts to approximately £400 million more than we've received in business-related consequentials, demonstrating just how seriously we've taken the economic harms of the pandemic. 

I'd also very much welcome the opportunity that Helen Mary Jones has given me to clarify the £30 million of additional support for businesses that is aligned to full-time equivalents. But, of course, it shouldn't be seen in isolation, because should restrictions be extended in the March 12 review, then the £150 million that's been made available will see all businesses in the hospitality, tourism and leisure, and non-essential sectors, receive up to an additional payment of £5,000 regardless of the number of employees they have. So, there will be protection and support for businesses of all sizes. 

And then, finally, we're supporting local government across Wales in exercising the discretion that they need in order to support businesses. So, I would give assurance to local authorities that they should be able to apply the criteria and use their discretion in every circumstance to ensure that businesses are supported through this terrible episode. 

A gaf fi ddiolch i Helen Mary Jones am ei chwestiynau? Ac yn gyntaf oll, rwy'n croesawu'r geiriau caredig iawn ar ddechrau ei set o gwestiynau heddiw. Credaf fy mod wedi bod yn ffodus iawn yn fy nghyfnod yn y rôl hon o gael llefarwyr hynod adeiladol yn y gwrthbleidiau, gan gynnwys Helen Mary Jones. Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn am y ffordd adeiladol y mae llefarwyr y gwrthbleidiau, ac yn wir, Aelodau ar draws y Siambr, wedi gallu gweithio gyda mi a fy swyddogion dros y pum mlynedd diwethaf, ac rydym wedi ceisio estyn allan, yn yr un modd ag y gwn fod Gweinidogion eraill wedi ceisio estyn allan, er mwyn cael y syniadau gorau posibl o bob rhan o'r Siambr, gan nad oes gennym fonopoli ar syniadau da, a daw'r canlyniadau gorau weithiau pan fyddwn yn gweithio gyda'n gilydd. Felly, hoffwn ddiolch i bawb, gan gynnwys Helen Mary Jones, am berthynas mor adeiladol yn fy nghyfnod yn y swydd hon.

Ac os caf ateb y cwestiwn olaf yn gyntaf, ac mae hwnnw’n ymwneud â pha mor gyflym y mae angen i arian gyrraedd busnesau er mwyn osgoi sefyllfa lle mae buddsoddiad heb ei wario. Mae cyflymder wedi bod yn ffactor allweddol yn y ffordd rydym wedi datblygu systemau cymorth, ac mae awdurdodau lleol, ynghyd â Llywodraeth Cymru a Busnes Cymru, wedi gwneud gwaith aruthrol yn sicrhau bod arian yn cyrraedd cyfrifon busnesau cyn gynted â phosibl. Felly, rhydd hynny hyder inni allu dweud y byddwn yn gwario'r arian sydd wedi'i ddyrannu i gymorth busnes, sef oddeutu £400 miliwn yn fwy na'r hyn rydym wedi'i gael mewn cyllid canlyniadol sy’n ymwneud â busnes wrth gwrs, gan ddangos yr ystyriaeth ddifrifol iawn a roddwyd gennym i niwed economaidd y pandemig.

Rwyf hefyd yn croesawu’r cyfle y mae Helen Mary Jones wedi’i roi imi egluro’r £30 miliwn o gymorth ychwanegol i fusnesau sy’n gysylltiedig â gweithwyr cyfwerth ag amser llawn. Ond wrth gwrs, ni ddylid ei ystyried ar ei ben ei hun, oherwydd pe bai cyfyngiadau'n cael eu hymestyn yn yr adolygiad ar 12 Mawrth, bydd y £150 miliwn sydd wedi’i ddarparu yn golygu y bydd pob busnes yn y sectorau lletygarwch, twristiaeth a hamdden, a’r sectorau dianghenraid, yn cael taliad ychwanegol o hyd at £5,000, ni waeth faint o weithwyr cyflogedig sydd ganddynt. Felly, bydd amddiffyniad a chymorth yn cael eu rhoi i fusnesau o bob maint.

Ac yn olaf, rydym yn cefnogi llywodraeth leol ledled Cymru i arfer y disgresiwn sydd ei angen arnynt er mwyn cefnogi busnesau. Felly, hoffwn roi sicrwydd i awdurdodau lleol y dylent allu defnyddio’r meini prawf ac arfer eu disgresiwn ym mhob achos er mwyn sicrhau bod busnesau'n cael cymorth drwy'r cyfnod ofnadwy hwn.

13:40

I'm grateful to the Minister for his answers. Of course, sadly and, I suppose, inevitably, we are beginning to hear of jobs being lost to Wales. The Minister will have heard what my colleague Rhun ap Iorwerth said yesterday about the 27 jobs at Joloda Hydraroll Ltd that may be transferred out of Gaerwen and Ynys Môn. He will also be aware of the 99 manufacturing jobs at risk at the AIM Altitude aircraft cabin interiors manufacturer in Llanelli. These are obviously just examples. Can the Minister provide us today with reassurances that, while dealing with the COVID emergency response, his department still has the capacity to respond to these kinds of situations? The number of the job losses that I've mentioned today may not seem huge, but in the communities impacted they are really significant, and there are supply line issues as well.

And, looking forward, does the Minister believe that his department will be able to develop the capacity to take an intelligence-led approach in identifying, as we come out of the COVID crisis, those companies in Wales where we are at the risk of redundancies so that the next Welsh Government will be able to step in at an earlier stage and perhaps intervene to support those businesses, and to encourage them to keep work here in Wales, before they reach the crisis point, where people often feel that, although there is a consultation, decisions have already been made? 

Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Gweinidog am ei atebion. Wrth gwrs, yn anffodus, ac yn anochel, mae'n debyg, rydym yn dechrau clywed am swyddi'n cael eu colli o Gymru. Bydd y Gweinidog wedi clywed yr hyn a ddywedodd fy nghyd-Aelod Rhun ap Iorwerth ddoe am y 27 swydd yn Joloda Hydraroll Ltd a allai gael eu symud o Gaerwen ac Ynys Môn. Fe fydd hefyd yn ymwybodol o'r 99 o swyddi gweithgynhyrchu sydd mewn perygl yn AIM Altitude yn Llanelli sy'n cynhyrchu rhannau mewnol cabanau awyrennau. Yn amlwg, enghreifftiau'n unig yw’r rhain. A all y Gweinidog roi sicrwydd i ni heddiw, wrth ymdrin â’r ymateb brys i COVID, fod gan ei adran gapasiti o hyd i ymateb i'r mathau hyn o sefyllfaoedd? Efallai nad yw nifer y swyddi a gollwyd a grybwyllwyd gennyf heddiw yn swnio’n enfawr, ond yn y cymunedau yr effeithir arnynt, maent yn wirioneddol bwysig, ac mae problemau gyda llinellau cyflenwi hefyd.

Ac wrth edrych tua’r dyfodol, a yw'r Gweinidog yn credu y bydd ei adran yn gallu datblygu capasiti i fabwysiadu dull sy'n seiliedig ar wybodaeth er mwyn nodi, wrth inni ddod allan o argyfwng COVID, pa gwmnïau yng Nghymru sydd mewn perygl o weld colli swyddi fel y bydd Llywodraeth nesaf Cymru yn gallu camu i mewn yn gynharach ac efallai ymyrryd i gefnogi'r busnesau hynny, a'u hannog i gadw gwaith yma yng Nghymru, cyn iddynt gyrraedd sefyllfa o argyfwng, lle mae pobl yn aml yn teimlo, er bod ymgynghori'n digwydd, fod y penderfyniadau eisoes wedi'u gwneud?

Can I thank Helen Mary Jones for her questions again, and say that I would agree entirely that a small or medium-sized employer in a very small community is a hugely significant employer? So, in working to make sure that we support business of all sizes across Wales, the resilience and reconstruction mission, which was unveiled just last week, highlights how we're going to be investing through the Development Bank of Wales a further £270 million in the medium- and long-term growth of businesses, primarily small and medium-sized enterprises, in Wales.

And I can assure all Members that we have the capacity within Government to deal with the immediate necessity to respond to business closures and businesses in crisis, not just individually, but because we are now working so collaboratively with our regional partners as well. And Members will be aware, for example, that we have regional response teams looking at employment prospects and business crises across Wales, and they're doing an incredible job in the most challenging of times. And we also utilise the Development Bank of Wales's intelligence unit, which is proving to be incredibly helpful in highlighting challenges that certain sectors and individual businesses are facing, so that we can apply that early intervention as soon as possible.

A gaf fi ddiolch i Helen Mary Jones am ei chwestiynau unwaith eto, a dweud y byddwn yn cytuno’n llwyr fod cyflogwr bach neu ganolig mewn cymuned fach iawn yn gyflogwr hynod bwysig? Felly, wrth weithio i sicrhau ein bod yn cefnogi busnesau o bob maint ledled Cymru, mae'r genhadaeth i gryfhau ac ailadeiladu’r economi a gyhoeddwyd yr wythnos diwethaf, yn nodi sut y byddwn yn buddsoddi £270 miliwn yn ychwanegol drwy Fanc Datblygu Cymru yn nhwf busnesau, busnesau bach a chanolig yn bennaf, yn y tymor canolig a’r tymor hir yng Nghymru.

A gallaf roi sicrwydd i bob Aelod fod gennym gapasiti yn y Llywodraeth i ymdrin â'r angen ar unwaith i ymateb i fusnesau sy’n cau a busnesau mewn sefyllfa o argyfwng, nid yn unig ar sail unigol, ond gan ein bod bellach yn gweithio mor gydweithredol gyda'n partneriaid rhanbarthol hefyd. A bydd yr Aelodau'n ymwybodol, er enghraifft, fod gennym dimau ymateb rhanbarthol sy'n edrych ar ragolygon cyflogaeth ac argyfyngau busnes ledled Cymru, ac maent yn gwneud gwaith anhygoel mewn cyfnod hynod heriol. Ac rydym hefyd yn defnyddio uned wybodaeth Banc Datblygu Cymru, sy'n hynod ddefnyddiol wrth nodi’r heriau y mae rhai sectorau a busnesau unigol yn eu hwynebu, fel y gallwn roi’r ymyrraeth gynnar honno ar waith cyn gynted â phosibl.

I'm grateful again to the Minister for his answers. Looking a little bit further forward now, we, in my party, strongly support the emphasis in the mission document on decarbonisation and, indeed, we'd like to see the Minister go further. It's going to be crucial as we rebuild our economy. But he will be aware that there are real fears that, through that process of decarbonising industry, there will be losers as well as winners. For example, he will know about the concerns of workers in the steel industry. Now, this change must come, but I am sure that the Minister would agree with me that the transition—the decarbonisation transition—must be just and socially progressive.

I wonder if he can provide an update today on any further discussions he's been able to have with the UK Government about the future of steel in Wales and how investment can be made to enable our steel industry to decarbonise. And would he support the creation in the next Senedd of a just transition committee to scrutinise the next Welsh Government to ensure that there are no unintended consequences, particularly for the most those economically vulnerable in our communities, of the actions that the next Welsh Government must take to decarbonise our economy?   

Rwy'n ddiolchgar unwaith eto i'r Gweinidog am ei atebion. Gan edrych ychydig ymhellach i’r dyfodol, rydym ni, yn fy mhlaid, yn cefnogi’r pwyslais yn y ddogfen genhadaeth ar ddatgarboneiddio, ac yn wir, hoffem weld y Gweinidog yn mynd ymhellach. Mae'n mynd i fod yn hanfodol wrth inni ailadeiladu ein heconomi. Ond drwy'r broses honno o ddatgarboneiddio diwydiant, fe fydd yn ymwybodol fod yna ofnau gwirioneddol y bydd pobl yn colli yn ogystal â phobl yn ennill. Er enghraifft, fe fydd yn ymwybodol o bryderon gweithwyr yn y diwydiant dur. Nawr, mae’n rhaid i'r newid hwn ddod, ond rwy'n siŵr y byddai'r Gweinidog yn cytuno â mi fod yn rhaid i'r cyfnod pontio—y newid i ddatgarboneiddio—fod yn gyfiawn ac yn gymdeithasol flaengar.

Tybed a all roi diweddariad i ni heddiw ar unrhyw drafodaethau pellach y mae wedi gallu eu cael gyda Llywodraeth y DU ynghylch dyfodol dur yng Nghymru a sut y gellir buddsoddi i alluogi ein diwydiant dur i ddatgarboneiddio. Ac a fyddai’n cefnogi creu pwyllgor pontio cyfiawn yn y Senedd nesaf i graffu ar Lywodraeth nesaf Cymru er mwyn sicrhau nad oes unrhyw ganlyniadau anfwriadol, yn enwedig i’r rhai mwyaf economaidd fregus yn ein cymunedau, yn sgil y camau sy’n rhaid i Lywodraeth nesaf Cymru eu cymryd er mwyn datgarboneiddio ein heconomi?

Well, I think that final suggestion is most certainly worth considering. It will be a decision for the next administration, but I think it's an excellent idea, because it recognises that we have to ensure that we have a green and just and fair recovery, and, therefore, scrutinising the Government on that basis would make sense.

I'm pleased to be able to inform Members today that a UK steel council has been scheduled for later this week. I spoke with the new Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy earlier this week regarding steel and the need to make sure that UK Government supports UK steel businesses in a safe transition to a low-carbon economy, and the emphasis is on 'safe'—we don't want to see a haemorrhaging of jobs within the steel industry. We want to make sure that change, which is necessary, as Helen Mary Jones has said, is conducted safely in regard to employment security, and that we ensure as many people with those high skills that are currently employed in the steel industries of Wales are retained in the future and, if necessary, upskilled or reskilled.  

Wel, yn sicr, credaf ei bod yn werth ystyried yr awgrym olaf hwnnw. Bydd yn benderfyniad ar gyfer y weinyddiaeth nesaf, ond credaf ei fod yn syniad rhagorol, gan ei fod yn cydnabod bod yn rhaid inni sicrhau adferiad gwyrdd a chyfiawn a theg, ac felly, byddai craffu ar y Llywodraeth ar y sail honno’n gwneud synnwyr.

Rwy'n falch o allu rhoi gwybod i'r Aelodau heddiw fod cyngor dur y DU wedi'i drefnu yn nes ymlaen yr wythnos hon. Siaradais â'r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol newydd dros Fusnes, Ynni a Strategaeth Ddiwydiannol yn gynharach yr wythnos hon ynghylch dur a'r angen i sicrhau bod Llywodraeth y DU yn cefnogi busnesau dur y DU i bontio’n ddiogel i economi carbon isel, gyda’r pwyslais ar 'yn ddiogel’—nid ydym am weld swyddi lu’n cael eu colli yn y diwydiant dur. Rydym am sicrhau bod y newid hwnnw, sy'n angenrheidiol fel y dywedodd Helen Mary Jones, yn cael ei wneud yn ddiogel o ran sicrwydd cyflogaeth, a’n bod yn sicrhau bod cymaint â phosibl o’r bobl â'r sgiliau uwch a gyflogir ar hyn o bryd yn niwydiannau dur Cymru yn cael eu cadw yn y dyfodol, ac os oes angen, yn cael eu huwchsgilio neu eu hailsgilio.

13:45

Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr nawr, Russell George.

Now the Conservative spokesperson, Russell George.

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, can I also say that it's been five years of bringing forward questions to you during spokespersons' questions and can I thank you, in the same way that Helen Mary did, in terms of the constructive way that we've worked together, especially during the pandemic? I think that's what the public would expect us to do and I thank you for that. 

With that, Minister, I'm going to use my last set of questions to do what I have been doing in terms of scrutinising your decisions and the Government's. This morning, you announced a huge sum of taxpayers' money to be provided to Cardiff Airport to the tune of £130 million. Now, from my perspective, the aviation sector has been hugely hit by the pandemic, and governments across the world need to support the industry—I have no doubt about that. But from my perspective, we've seen thousands of pounds of taxpayers' money already invested by your Government and much of that has been written off to Cardiff Airport and that was before the pandemic even hit.

So, I think the question that small businesses will have across Wales is: have you got the balance correct in terms of support for them versus the huge sums of money that have been put into the airport and have been written off in that vein as well? I ask the question in the spirit of this—I asked you a written question last week: when is the fourth phase of the economic relief fund expected to open? And I had an answer back at the end of last week that said that the Welsh Government is currently exploring further options for supporting businesses. Well, businesses will need to know when that next round of the economic resilience fund is coming forward. That's the information that they will need to know.

And finally, if I can ask you in terms of this first question, I've got your 2016 manifesto in front of me: what commitments that sit in your portfolio area have not been achieved during this five-year term?

Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, a gaf finnau ddweud ei bod wedi bod yn bum mlynedd o gyflwyno cwestiynau i chi yn ystod cwestiynau’r llefarwyr, ac a gaf fi ddiolch i chi, yn yr un modd ag y gwnaeth Helen Mary, am y ffordd adeiladol rydym wedi gweithio gyda'n gilydd, yn enwedig yn ystod y pandemig? Credaf mai dyna fyddai'r cyhoedd yn disgwyl i ni ei wneud a diolch i chi am hynny.

Gyda hynny, Weinidog, rwyf am ddefnyddio fy set olaf o gwestiynau i wneud yr hyn rwyf wedi bod yn ei wneud sef craffu ar eich penderfyniadau chi a phenderfyniadau'r Llywodraeth. Y bore yma, fe gyhoeddoch chi y bydd swm enfawr o arian trethdalwyr yn cael ei ddarparu i Faes Awyr Caerdydd, oddeutu £130 miliwn. Nawr, o’r hyn a welaf, mae'r pandemig wedi taro'r sector hedfanaeth yn aruthrol, ac mae angen i lywodraethau ledled y byd gefnogi'r diwydiant—nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth gennyf ynghylch hynny. Ond o’m safbwynt i, rydym wedi gweld miloedd o bunnoedd o arian trethdalwyr eisoes yn cael ei fuddsoddi gan eich Llywodraeth, ac mae llawer o ddyled Maes Awyr Caerdydd wedi’i dileu, ac roedd hynny cyn y pandemig, hyd yn oed.

Felly, credaf mai'r cwestiwn a fydd gan fusnesau bach ledled Cymru yw: a yw’r cydbwysedd yn gywir gennych o ran y cymorth iddynt o’i gymharu â’r symiau enfawr o arian sydd wedi'u rhoi i’r maes awyr ac sydd wedi'u dileu yn y ffordd honno hefyd? Gofynnaf y cwestiwn yn ysbryd hyn—gofynnais gwestiwn ysgrifenedig i chi yr wythnos diwethaf: pryd y mae disgwyl i bedwerydd cam y gronfa rhyddhad economaidd agor? A chefais ateb tua diwedd yr wythnos diwethaf a ddywedai fod Llywodraeth Cymru wrthi’n archwilio opsiynau pellach ar gyfer cefnogi busnesau. Wel, bydd angen i fusnesau wybod pryd y bydd y rownd nesaf o'r gronfa cadernid economaidd yn digwydd. Dyna'r wybodaeth y bydd ei hangen arnynt.

Ac yn olaf, os caf ofyn i chi mewn perthynas â'r cwestiwn cyntaf hwn, mae gennyf eich maniffesto ar gyfer 2016 o fy mlaen: pa ymrwymiadau yn eich maes portffolio na chyflawnwyd yn ystod y tymor pum mlynedd hwn?

Can I thank Russell George for his questions? I can't quite believe that it's five years that I've been scrutinised by Russell, as the Conservative spokesperson. Time truly has flown by, but his scrutiny has been consistently tough but fair and constructive. So, I'd like to thank him for the role that he has played in ensuring that Welsh Government is held to account for the decisions that it has made and me, as the Minister for economy and transport.

Russell George and other Members will be aware of the devastating impact globally that the pandemic has had on the aviation industry. Just recently, Heathrow Airport reported a £2 billion loss. We've seen the UK Government make available £100 million to some English regional airports. We've seen the Scottish Government make available £17 million to Scottish airports and Northern Ireland, likewise, are making available £10 million to its airports. So, it demonstrates how all governments are intervening. The difference, of course, is that the Welsh Government—the Welsh people—own Cardiff international airport. It is a national asset for the people of Wales. 

In answering the question of whether or not the balance of support is appropriate, I'd just like to remind Members that Cardiff international airport supports more than 5,000 jobs indirectly and supports 2,400 aviation jobs. That amounts to about 4.4 per cent of employment within south-east Wales. It is a huge, huge economic asset and without the Welsh Government support, it would, in my view, have fallen over. And so, it's right and proper that as an enabler for growth for small and medium-sized enterprises, we support the airport. And the airport does have excellent prospects for the future, once we are beyond this pandemic.

If we just go back to the period prior to the pandemic, the growth at the airport was quite astonishing. Passenger growth had increased by over 50 per cent during the period in which Welsh Government Ministers were in ownership of, or the Welsh people were in ownership of the airport. And I believe that, with the ambitious plans that were set out under the master plan, and in particular with the ambitious plans concerning carbon reduction, the airport will be an exemplary airport in the United Kingdom and further afield in terms of low-carbon air travel.

And finally, responding to the last question that Russell George asked me, the obvious answer is the M4 relief road was not proceeded—. We did not proceed with the M4 relief road for reasons that the First Minister, I and others have regularly reminded Members, which is that circumstances have changed quite dramatically in recent years. There was a declaration of a climate emergency, which we across the Chamber are responsible for acknowledging and responding to, and of course we were able to set up the Burns commission to produce an alternative set of recommendations and work, primarily focused on rail infrastructure improvements, to ensure that people have an opportunity to travel other than by private motor vehicle.

A gaf fi ddiolch i Russell George am ei gwestiynau? Ni allaf gredu bod Russell wedi bod yn craffu ar fy ngwaith ers pum mlynedd, fel llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr. Mae amser wedi hedfan yn wir, ond mae ei graffu wedi bod yn gadarn ond yn gyson deg ac adeiladol. Felly, hoffwn ddiolch iddo am y rôl y mae wedi'i chwarae yn sicrhau bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cael ei dwyn i gyfrif am y penderfyniadau y mae wedi’u gwneud a minnau, fel Gweinidog yr economi a thrafnidiaeth.

Bydd Russell George a’r Aelodau eraill yn ymwybodol o'r effaith ddinistriol y mae'r pandemig wedi'i chael ar y diwydiant hedfan ledled y byd. Yn ddiweddar, nododd Maes Awyr Heathrow golled o £2 biliwn. Rydym wedi gweld Llywodraeth y DU yn darparu £100 miliwn i rai meysydd awyr rhanbarthol yn Lloegr. Rydym wedi gweld Llywodraeth yr Alban yn darparu £17 miliwn i feysydd awyr yr Alban, ac mae Gogledd Iwerddon, yn yr un modd, yn darparu £10 miliwn i'w meysydd awyr hwy. Felly, mae’n dangos sut y mae pob llywodraeth yn ymyrryd. Y gwahaniaeth, wrth gwrs, yw mai Llywodraeth Cymru—pobl Cymru—sy’n berchen ar faes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd. Mae'n ased cenedlaethol i bobl Cymru.

Wrth ateb y cwestiwn ynglŷn ag a yw cydbwysedd y cymorth yn briodol ai peidio, hoffwn atgoffa’r Aelodau fod maes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd yn cynnal mwy na 5,000 o swyddi yn anuniongyrchol ac yn cynnal 2,400 o swyddi hedfanaeth. Mae hynny'n cyfateb i oddeutu 4.4 y cant o gyflogaeth yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru. Mae'n ased economaidd enfawr, a heb gymorth Llywodraeth Cymru, yn fy marn i, byddai wedi methu. Ac felly, mae'n iawn ac yn briodol ein bod yn cefnogi’r maes awyr fel galluogydd twf ar gyfer busnesau bach a chanolig eu maint. Ac mae gan y maes awyr ragolygon gwych ar gyfer y dyfodol, pan fyddwn wedi cefnu ar y pandemig hwn.

Os edrychwn ar y cyfnod cyn y pandemig, roedd y twf yn y maes awyr yn eithaf syfrdanol. Roedd niferoedd teithwyr wedi cynyddu dros 50 y cant yn ystod y cyfnod ers i Weinidogion Llywodraeth Cymru ddod yn berchen ar, neu ers i bobl Cymru ddod yn berchen ar y maes awyr. A chyda'r cynlluniau uchelgeisiol a nodwyd o dan yr uwchgynllun, ac yn enwedig gyda'r cynlluniau uchelgeisiol mewn perthynas â lleihau carbon, credaf y bydd y maes awyr yn faes awyr rhagorol yn y Deyrnas Unedig a thu hwnt o ran teithiau awyr carbon isel.

Ac yn olaf, wrth ymateb i’r cwestiwn olaf a ofynnodd Russell George i mi, yr ateb amlwg yw na wnaethom fwrw ymlaen â ffordd liniaru’r M4—. Ni wnaethom fwrw ymlaen â ffordd liniaru’r M4 am resymau y mae’r Prif Weinidog, a minnau ac eraill wedi'u hailadrodd wrth yr Aelodau'n rheolaidd, sef bod yr amgylchiadau wedi newid yn eithaf dramatig dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Cafwyd datganiad o argyfwng hinsawdd yr ydym ni ar draws y Siambr yn gyfrifol am ei gydnabod ac ymateb iddo, ac wrth gwrs, bu modd inni sefydlu comisiwn Burns i gynhyrchu set amgen o argymhellion a gwaith, a oedd yn canolbwyntio'n bennaf ar welliannau i'r seilwaith rheilffyrdd, er mwyn sicrhau bod pobl yn cael cyfle i deithio drwy ddulliau ar wahân i geir preifat.

13:50

Thank you for your answers. Minister, in terms of that last question I asked you, you addressed the issue in terms of the M4 relief road. That was a commitment in the 2016 Labour manifesto, which, of course, you were the author of. But I've got this manifesto in front of me now and I can see it says,

'We will deliver fast broadband to every property in Wales'.

Your Deputy Minister continually reminds us when it suits him that this is not a matter for the Welsh Government, yet it sits here in the Welsh Government's manifesto. It talks about the metro schemes in north and south Wales. We talk about the M4 relief road not going ahead, but there's also a commitment there for the A55 improvements and the A40 improvements as well, which we haven't seen also. And it also talks about 4G masts and it also talks about integrated ticketing. There's just so much in the manifesto that sits under your portfolio area that has not been achieved, and I understand that some things change. You changed you position on the M4 relief road; I don't agree with that, but that's a decision that you as a Government have made. My question is: how can the people of Wales and the small businesses trust your approach now going forward, during the pandemic and into your next manifesto as you develop that ahead of the elections coming up in May, when so much hasn't been achieved in terms of your 2016 manifesto?

Diolch am eich atebion. Weinidog, ar y cwestiwn olaf hwnnw a ofynnais i chi, rhoesoch sylw i ffordd liniaru’r M4. Roedd hwnnw’n ymrwymiad ym maniffesto Llafur 2016, a ysgrifennwyd, wrth gwrs, gennych chi. Ond mae'r maniffesto hwn gennyf o fy mlaen yn awr, a gallaf weld ei fod yn dweud,

‘Byddwn yn cyflawni band eang cyflym i bob eiddo yng Nghymru’.

Mae eich Dirprwy Weinidog yn ein hatgoffa’n barhaus, pan fydd yn gyfleus iddo wneud hynny, nad mater i Lywodraeth Cymru yw hwn, ond mae wedi’i gynnwys yma ym maniffesto Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae'n sôn am gynlluniau’r metro yng ngogledd a de Cymru. Rydym yn sôn nad yw ffordd liniaru’r M4 yn mynd yn ei blaen, ond ceir ymrwymiad ynddo i wneud gwelliannau i’r A55 a gwelliannau i'r A40 hefyd, nad ydym wedi'u gweld chwaith. Ac mae’n sôn hefyd am fastiau 4G, yn ogystal â thocynnau integredig. Mae cymaint yn y maniffesto sy’n rhan o’ch maes portffolio ac nad yw wedi’i gyflawni, a deallaf fod rhai pethau'n newid. Fe newidioch chi eich safbwynt ar ffordd liniaru’r M4; nid wyf yn cytuno â hynny, ond mae hwnnw’n benderfyniad rydych chi fel Llywodraeth wedi'i wneud. Fy nghwestiwn yw hwn: sut y gall pobl Cymru a'r busnesau bach ymddiried yn eich dull gweithredu wrth symud ymlaen, yn ystod y pandemig ac i mewn i'ch maniffesto nesaf wrth i chi ei ddatblygu cyn yr etholiadau ym mis Mai, pan fo cymaint heb ei gyflawni yn eich maniffesto ar gyfer 2016?

Well, can I first of all say that it's only fair that I get an opportunity to highlight some of the great successes of the Welsh Government in the last five years in regard to transport and infrastructure and the economy? Prior to the pandemic, we had the highest rate of employment on record. We had the highest number of businesses in existence in Wales since devolution, and before devolution, it has to be said. Economic inactivity, quite phenomenally, was fast approaching UK average, and our GVA, our productivity, was improving faster than the UK average as well.

During the course of the pandemic, our focus has been on jobs and jobs and more jobs, and, as a result of that focus, we now have an unemployment rate in Wales that is lower than the UK average. There is still a long journey to be tread, but we have an unemployment rate that is below the UK average, and that is precisely because we've got a devolved Government that is focusing on employment. The difference between the UK average and the Welsh rate of unemployment demonstrates the value of our £2 billion investment in businesses, and that, in turn, through securing more than 140,000 jobs, represents 10 per cent of the Welsh workforce. It's a staggering success.

We've also established the Development Bank of Wales, which was promised in the manifesto and I think is now recognised as one of the most important assets we have in Wales. We also established Transport for Wales. We've nationalised the railways. We are steadily progressing metro programmes, but the metro programmes were never intended to be delivered in a single term; these are long-term objectives. Rome wasn't built in a day and the metros of Wales won't be built within a single administration term. But we are beginning the process of delivering them, both in north Wales and south Wales, and steadily as well in south-west Wales. 

In terms of fast broadband, it's absolutely right to point out that this is a reserved matter, but we have been intervening with investment above and beyond what we receive from UK Government, and there have been significant improvements. And there continue to be significant improvements for our trunk road network, including on the A55. Many Members in north Wales will recognise the investment that's taken place there, with more to follow. But our focus in terms of transport, as highlighted by the Welsh transport strategy, will shift towards promoting active travel and public transport, making sure that as we invest in transport-related infrastructure, we do so in a way that grows a fair and more equal economy.

Wel, a gaf fi ddweud yn gyntaf ei bod ond yn deg fy mod yn cael cyfle i dynnu sylw at rai o lwyddiannau mawr Llywodraeth Cymru yn ystod y pum mlynedd diwethaf mewn perthynas â thrafnidiaeth a seilwaith a'r economi? Cyn y pandemig, roedd gennym y gyfradd gyflogaeth uchaf erioed. Roedd gennym y nifer uchaf o fusnesau yn bodoli yng Nghymru ers datganoli, a chyn datganoli, mae’n rhaid dweud. Roedd anweithgarwch economaidd, yn rhyfeddol, yn prysur agosáu at gyfartaledd y DU, ac roedd ein gwerth ychwanegol gros, ein cynhyrchiant, yn gwella'n gyflymach na chyfartaledd y DU hefyd.

Yn ystod y pandemig, rydym wedi canolbwyntio ar swyddi a swyddi a mwy o swyddi, ac o ganlyniad i'r ffocws hwnnw, mae gennym bellach gyfradd ddiweithdra yng Nghymru sy'n is na chyfartaledd y DU. Mae ffordd bell i fynd o hyd, ond mae gennym gyfradd ddiweithdra sy'n is na chyfartaledd y DU, a hynny am fod gennym Lywodraeth ddatganoledig sy'n canolbwyntio ar gyflogaeth. Mae'r gwahaniaeth rhwng cyfartaledd y DU a chyfradd ddiweithdra Cymru yn dangos gwerth ein buddsoddiad o £2 biliwn mewn busnesau, ac mae hynny, yn ei dro, drwy ddiogelu mwy na 140,000 o swyddi, yn cynrychioli 10 y cant o weithlu Cymru. Mae'n llwyddiant syfrdanol.

Rydym hefyd wedi sefydlu Banc Datblygu Cymru, a gafodd ei addo yn y maniffesto, a chredaf ei fod bellach yn cael ei gydnabod fel un o'r asedau pwysicaf sydd gennym yng Nghymru. Fe wnaethom hefyd sefydlu Trafnidiaeth Cymru. Rydym wedi gwladoli'r rheilffyrdd. Rydym yn bwrw ymlaen yn raddol â’r rhaglenni metro, ond ni fu bwriad erioed i gyflwyno’r rhaglenni metro mewn un tymor; mae'r rhain yn amcanion hirdymor. Ni chafodd Rhufain ei hadeiladu mewn diwrnod ac ni fydd metros Cymru'n cael eu hadeiladu yn nhymor un weinyddiaeth. Ond rydym yn dechrau'r broses o'u cyflwyno, yng ngogledd Cymru a de Cymru, ac yn raddol hefyd yn ne-orllewin Cymru.

Ar y band eang cyflym, mae'n gwbl gywir nodi bod hwn yn fater a gedwir yn ôl, ond rydym wedi bod yn ymyrryd gyda buddsoddiad y tu hwnt i'r hyn a gawn gan Lywodraeth y DU, a chafwyd gwelliannau sylweddol. Ac mae gwelliannau sylweddol yn parhau i gael eu gwneud i'n rhwydwaith cefnffyrdd, gan gynnwys ar yr A55. Bydd llawer o'r Aelodau yng ngogledd Cymru yn cydnabod y buddsoddiad a wnaed yno, gyda mwy i ddilyn. Ond bydd ein ffocws o ran trafnidiaeth, fel y nodwyd yn strategaeth drafnidiaeth Cymru, yn symud tuag at hybu teithio llesol a thrafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, gan sicrhau, wrth inni fuddsoddi mewn seilwaith sy’n gysylltiedig â thrafnidiaeth, ein bod yn gwneud hynny mewn ffordd sy'n tyfu economi deg a mwy cyfartal.

Thank you, Minister. You've skilfully shifted the answer there away from the questions that I asked, pointing towards some of the areas that were not delivered in the 2016 manifesto.

In terms of the UK Government's announcements today and over the last couple of days, we've seen huge sums of money announced by the Chancellor that will be able to support the economic growth here in Wales from Holyhead to Port Talbot, and we've seen announcements made in terms of business support. So, I'm hoping that you'll be able to confirm that that business rates holiday will now apply in Wales, and that that's what you will implement also. We've also seen huge sums of money in terms of £12 billion from the UK infrastructure bank, which will, of course, benefit Wales as well. So, huge sums of support that the UK Government Chancellor has announced.

In terms of getting the Welsh economy firing on all cylinders, I go back to my earlier points about being constructive here and parties working together, and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development report suggested that we should have an arm's-length body so that decisions are made not by Welsh Government Ministers, but by promoting Wales around the world by a third-party organisation, such as the Welsh Development Agency. You've previously been open to that suggestion before; that's something I firmly believe is the right approach, because I just think that we need to be doing everything we can to get our economy firing on all cylinders. I wonder whether you would also agree that this is an important area to move forward as we move the Welsh economy forward. We've got these billions of pounds that the UK Government has provided for the UK, including Wales, and one way to do that is through the arm's-length body that's been talked about in the OECD report.

Diolch, Weinidog. Rydych wedi symud yr ateb yn fedrus iawn oddi wrth y cwestiynau a ofynnais, a oedd yn tynnu sylw at rai o'r meysydd nas cyflawnwyd ym maniffesto 2016.

O ran cyhoeddiadau Llywodraeth y DU heddiw a dros yr ychydig ddyddiau diwethaf, rydym wedi gweld symiau enfawr o arian yn cael eu cyhoeddi gan y Canghellor a fydd yn gallu cefnogi’r twf economaidd yma yng Nghymru o Gaergybi i Bort Talbot, ac rydym wedi gweld cyhoeddiadau'n cael eu gwneud ar gymorth busnes. Felly, gobeithio y gallwch gadarnhau y bydd y seibiant ardrethi busnes hwnnw’n berthnasol yng Nghymru, ac mai dyna fyddwch chi'n ei roi ar waith hefyd. Rydym hefyd wedi gweld symiau enfawr o arian o ran y £12 biliwn gan fanc seilwaith y DU, a fydd, wrth gwrs, o fudd i Gymru hefyd. Felly, symiau enfawr o gymorth wedi'i gyhoeddi gan Ganghellor Llywodraeth y DU.

O ran sicrhau bod economi Cymru yn gweithredu ar ei gorau, af yn ôl at fy mhwyntiau cynharach ynglŷn â bod yn adeiladol yma a’r pleidiau’n cydweithio, ac awgrymodd adroddiad y Sefydliad ar gyfer Cydweithrediad a Datblygiad Economaidd y dylem sefydlu corff hyd braich fel bod penderfyniadau'n cael eu gwneud nid gan Weinidogion Llywodraeth Cymru, ond drwy hyrwyddo Cymru ledled y byd gan sefydliad trydydd parti, fel Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru. Rydych wedi bod yn agored i'r awgrym hwnnw yn y gorffennol; credaf yn gryf mai dyna'r dull cywir, gan y credaf fod angen inni wneud popeth yn ein gallu i sicrhau bod ein heconomi'n gweithredu ar ei gorau. Tybed a fyddech hefyd yn cytuno bod hwn yn faes pwysig i’w ddatblygu wrth inni ddatblygu economi Cymru. Mae gennym y biliynau o bunnoedd hyn y mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi’i ddarparu ar gyfer y DU, gan gynnwys Cymru, ac un ffordd o wneud hynny yw drwy'r corff hyd braich y soniwyd amdano yn adroddiad y Sefydliad ar gyfer Cydweithrediad a Datblygiad Economaidd.

13:55

Can I thank Russell George for his final set of questions and say that we have been hugely ambitious during this current administration term? We established the Development Bank of Wales—the first major regional development bank in the United Kingdom—and that's been a huge success. So, we do not fear establishing new bodies to drive prosperity. I do welcome the OECD's work in scrutinising the Welsh economy and structures for investment and economic development.

We're going to be working with the OECD in the months to come with a view to responding in detail to the recommendations. I'm open to ideas and I have been open to ideas during the past five years, but we have to ensure that the development of any new agencies or bodies does not duplicate what is currently being delivered and will be delivered into the future. We must consider, I think, therefore, the role of the corporate joint committees that are being established, which bring together local authorities on a regional basis. They are a very, very significant development and I would not wish to see their success impaired or put in harm's way by the accelerated development of a half-baked idea concerning regional development agencies. And that's why it's absolutely essential that we carefully consider what the OECD have recommended, and consider whether, in light of the creation of CJCs, such agencies would be required and if so, whether they would be desirable. And we have to do that in social partnership with local authorities, with business, with the unions and with key stakeholders.

A gaf fi ddiolch i Russell George am ei set olaf o gwestiynau a dweud ein bod wedi bod yn hynod uchelgeisiol yn ystod tymor y weinyddiaeth gyfredol? Fe wnaethom sefydlu Banc Datblygu Cymru—y banc datblygu rhanbarthol mawr cyntaf yn y Deyrnas Unedig—ac mae hwnnw wedi bod yn llwyddiant ysgubol. Felly, nid ydym yn ofni sefydlu cyrff newydd i hybu ffyniant. Rwy'n croesawu gwaith y Sefydliad ar gyfer Cydweithrediad a Datblygiad Economaidd yn craffu ar economi a strwythurau Cymru ar gyfer buddsoddi a datblygu economaidd.

Byddwn yn gweithio gyda'r Sefydliad ar gyfer Cydweithrediad a Datblygiad Economaidd yn y misoedd i ddod gyda'r bwriad o ymateb yn fanwl i'r argymhellion. Rwy'n agored i syniadau ac rwyf wedi bod yn agored i syniadau dros y pum mlynedd diwethaf, ond mae'n rhaid inni sicrhau nad yw datblygiad unrhyw asiantaethau neu gyrff newydd yn dyblygu'r hyn sy'n cael ei gyflawni ar hyn o bryd ac a gyflawnir yn y dyfodol. Rwy'n credu felly fod yn rhaid inni ystyried rôl y cyd-bwyllgorau corfforedig sy'n cael eu sefydlu, sy'n dod ag awdurdodau lleol ynghyd ar sail ranbarthol. Maent yn ddatblygiad pwysig tu hwnt ac ni fyddwn yn dymuno gweld eu llwyddiant yn cael ei amharu na'i beryglu drwy ddatblygiad cyflym rhyw hanner syniad ynghylch asiantaethau datblygu rhanbarthol. A dyna pam ei bod yn gwbl hanfodol ein bod yn ystyried yn ofalus yr hyn y mae'r Sefydliad ar gyfer Cydweithrediad a Datblygiad Economaidd wedi'i argymell, ac yn ystyried a fyddai angen asiantaethau o'r fath yng ngoleuni’r cyd-bwyllgorau corfforedig, ac os felly, a fyddent yn ddymunol. Ac mae'n rhaid inni wneud hynny mewn partneriaeth gymdeithasol ag awdurdodau lleol, gyda busnes, gyda'r undebau a chyda rhanddeiliaid allweddol.

Maes Awyr Caerdydd
Cardiff Airport

3. Pa fesurau sydd ar waith i gefnogi Maes Awyr Caerdydd pan ddaw'r cyfyngiadau symud i ben? OQ56353

3. What measures are in place to support Cardiff Airport when the lockdown restrictions end? OQ56353

Officials are continuing to work with Cardiff International Airport Limited and their executive board to evaluate the impact of coronavirus on the airport, including, of course, future actions in relation to recovery options, and we intend to say more about that in the weeks and months to come. I am in no doubt, as I said to Russell George, that the airport has a very, very bright future.

Mae swyddogion yn parhau i weithio gyda Maes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd Cyfyngedig a’u bwrdd gweithredol i werthuso effaith y coronafeirws ar y maes awyr, gan gynnwys, wrth gwrs, camau gweithredu yn y dyfodol mewn perthynas ag opsiynau adfer, ac rydym yn bwriadu dweud mwy am hynny yn ystod yr wythnosau a’r misoedd i ddod. Nid oes amheuaeth gennyf, fel y dywedais wrth Russell George, fod gan y maes awyr ddyfodol disglair tu hwnt.

Thank you for the reply, Minister. You know that Wizz Air, for reasons that really need no description, are delaying the operation of their new services from Cardiff Airport. These will be very significant new scheduled services when they do begin, and I just want to have a reassurance that whoever forms the Welsh Government after the forthcoming election will ensure that these routes, principally Spain, Portugal and Greece, will be identified for priority if we need, for instance, to be establishing safety corridors to link countries that have COVID under control. Obviously, the assessment of whether those countries do have COVID under control will then have to be made, but I do not want to see lots of delays because of the bureaucracy. It's quite clear that some countries are likely to be open to us, as aviation partners, sooner than others.

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Fe wyddoch fod Wizz Air, am resymau nad oes angen eu disgrifio, yn gohirio gweithrediad eu gwasanaethau newydd o Faes Awyr Caerdydd. Bydd y rhain yn wasanaethau rheolaidd newydd pwysig iawn pan fyddant yn cychwyn, a hoffwn gael sicrwydd y bydd pwy bynnag sy'n ffurfio Llywodraeth Cymru ar ôl yr etholiad yn sicrhau bod y llwybrau hyn, yn bennaf i Sbaen, Portiwgal a Gwlad Groeg, yn cael eu nodi ar gyfer blaenoriaeth, er enghraifft os bydd angen inni sefydlu coridorau diogelwch i gysylltu gwledydd sydd â COVID dan reolaeth. Yn amlwg, bydd angen asesu wedyn a yw COVID dan reolaeth yn y gwledydd hynny, ond nid wyf am weld llawer o oedi oherwydd biwrocratiaeth. Mae'n gwbl amlwg fod rhai gwledydd yn debygol o fod yn agored i ni, fel partneriaid hedfan, yn gynt nag eraill.

14:00

I'd agree with David Melding that we wish to ensure that Cardiff international airport has the best prospects available to it to take advantage of any improved circumstances with regard to flight. David Melding rightly highlighted the success that Cardiff international airport has enjoyed recently in attracting Wizz Air, and they'll be operating from May 2021; they'll be operating nine routes to various holiday destinations. There is huge pent-up demand for international leisure travel—holiday travel. We want to make sure that Cardiff international airport benefits from that and that its carriers also benefit from it, including KLM, Vueling, Ryanair and others.

We're working with the airport to attract more airlines and we're working with the UK Government in terms of aviation policy. It's absolutely vital that the UK Government responds to us in a fair way when we ask for certain tools to be devolved, including air passenger duty, that we are fully part of any considerations regarding support packages that may be available for the aviation sector, and that we are fully part of any decisions regarding restrictions that could be eased to enable international travel. 

Byddwn yn cytuno â David Melding ein bod eisiau sicrhau bod gan faes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd y rhagolygon gorau posibl er mwyn manteisio ar unrhyw amgylchiadau gwell mewn perthynas â hedfan. Mae David Melding wedi tynnu sylw'n briodol at y llwyddiant y mae maes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd wedi'i fwynhau'n ddiweddar o ran denu Wizz Air, a byddant yn gweithredu o fis Mai 2021 ymlaen; byddant yn gweithredu naw llwybr hedfan i wahanol gyrchfannau gwyliau. Mae galw aruthrol am deithio hamdden rhyngwladol—teithio gwyliau. Rydym eisiau sicrhau bod maes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd yn elwa o hynny a bod ei gwmnïau hedfan hefyd yn elwa ohono, gan gynnwys KLM, Vueling, Ryanair ac eraill.

Rydym yn gweithio gyda'r maes awyr i ddenu mwy o gwmnïau awyrennau ac rydym yn gweithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU mewn perthynas â pholisi hedfanaeth. Mae'n gwbl hanfodol fod Llywodraeth y DU yn ymateb i ni mewn ffordd deg pan ofynnwn i rai pethau gael eu datganoli, gan gynnwys y doll teithwyr awyr, ein bod yn rhan o unrhyw ystyriaethau'n ymwneud â phecynnau cymorth a allai fod ar gael i'r sector hedfanaeth, a'n bod yn rhan lawn o unrhyw benderfyniadau ynglŷn â chyfyngiadau y gellid eu llacio i alluogi teithio rhyngwladol.

Minister, can I welcome the support the Welsh Government has given to the airport, protecting the many hundreds of jobs that are dependent on that airport, directly or indirectly, in the Pontypridd and Taff-Ely area? Do you agree with me that the airport is important in respect of the aviation sector and the aviation sector jobs that we have in the broader south Wales area, but particularly in places like Nantgarw and the Pontypridd and Taff-Ely area? Could you, perhaps, enlarge a little bit on what might be the future plans for the airport, particularly with the idea of incorporating it as part of our public integrated transport system to make it more accessible and as effective as possible an element in achieving economic growth in the post-COVID era?

Weinidog, a gaf fi groesawu'r gefnogaeth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i rhoi i'r maes awyr, gan ddiogelu'r cannoedd o swyddi sy'n ddibynnol ar y maes awyr hwnnw, yn uniongyrchol neu'n anuniongyrchol, yn ardal Pontypridd a Thaf Elái? A ydych yn cytuno â mi fod y maes awyr yn bwysig i'r sector hedfanaeth a'r swyddi sydd gennym yn y sector hedfanaeth yn ardal ehangach de Cymru, ond yn enwedig mewn lleoedd fel Nantgarw ac ardal Pontypridd a Thaf Elái? A allech ymhelaethu ychydig efallai ar y cynlluniau ar gyfer y maes awyr yn y dyfodol, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â’r syniad o'i ymgorffori'n rhan o'n system drafnidiaeth integredig gyhoeddus i'w wneud yn fwy hygyrch ac mor effeithiol â phosibl wrth sicrhau twf economaidd yn y cyfnod ar ôl COVID?

Can I thank Mick Antoniw for his question? I very much welcome his support for the airport. He's right; there are hundreds of jobs in his constituency and surrounding constituencies that directly rely on the airport, and many more that indirectly rely on the existence of the airport. I've already given the figure: 5,200 jobs in total are supported by the airport, with 2,400 aviation-related jobs. One can only imagine how many of those jobs and those key employers within south-east Wales in the aerospace and aviation industries directly rely on the very existence of Cardiff international airport. That's why I make no apology for ensuring that it survives this short-term challenge and that it has the best possible prospects for long-term success.

In terms of future prospects, obviously the airport wishes to be an exemplar in terms of low-carbon air travel. In September 2019, the airport launched an environmental flight path—a journey to becoming carbon neutral. It's hugely ambitious, and we very much welcomed it. The airport has its master plan in place and is delivering against the master plan. Contained within that is a desire to see better, more integrated public transport serving one of our hugely important national assets. We'll be working with the airport and with our local government stakeholders to ensure that public transport, in an integrated way, can meet the needs of the airport and the travelling public.

A gaf fi ddiolch i Mick Antoniw am ei gwestiwn? Rwy'n croesawu ei gefnogaeth i'r maes awyr yn fawr. Mae'n iawn: mae cannoedd o swyddi yn ei etholaeth ac mewn etholaethau cyfagos yn dibynnu'n uniongyrchol ar y maes awyr, ac mae llawer mwy'n dibynnu'n anuniongyrchol ar fodolaeth y maes awyr. Rwyf eisoes wedi rhoi'r ffigur: mae cyfanswm o 5,200 o swyddi'n cael eu cefnogi gan y maes awyr, gyda 2,400 o swyddi'n gysylltiedig â hedfanaeth. Ni ellir ond dychmygu faint o'r swyddi hynny a'r cyflogwyr allweddol hynny yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru yn y diwydiannau awyrofod a hedfanaeth sy'n dibynnu'n uniongyrchol ar fodolaeth maes awyr rhyngwladol Caerdydd. Dyna pam rwy’n benderfynol o sicrhau ei fod yn goroesi'r her hon yn y tymor byr a bod ganddo'r rhagolygon gorau posibl ar gyfer llwyddiant hirdymor.

O ran y rhagolygon ar gyfer y dyfodol, yn amlwg, mae'r maes awyr yn awyddus i fod yn batrwm o deithio awyr carbon isel. Ym mis Medi 2019, lansiodd y maes awyr lwybr hedfan amgylcheddol—taith tuag at fod yn garbon niwtral. Mae'n uchelgeisiol iawn, ac fe'i croesawyd yn fawr gennym. Mae prif gynllun y maes awyr ar waith ac mae'n cyflawni yn erbyn nodau’r prif gynllun. Ynddo, ceir awydd i weld trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus well a mwy integredig yn gwasanaethu un o'n hasedau cenedlaethol tra phwysig. Byddwn yn gweithio gyda'r maes awyr a chyda'n rhanddeiliaid llywodraeth leol i sicrhau y gall trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, mewn ffordd integredig, ddiwallu anghenion y maes awyr a'r cyhoedd sy'n teithio.

Can I add my thanks to those of Helen Mary Jones and Russell George in thanking the Minister for involving me in his deliberations throughout the last five years, both as a spokesperson and after? Can I say that I have the highest respect for your abilities and commitment to your duties as a Minister? As the Minister will know, I have been a keen supporter of the Welsh Government's intervention strategy with regard to Cardiff Airport. Prior to COVID, that strategy was paying dividends, with passenger figures rising considerably and new airlines being attracted to the airport. I would, therefore, urge you to continue supporting the airport, not just after lockdown but into the future. A vibrant, growing international airport is crucial for promoting Wales to the rest of the world, and it is, of course, a vital facility for Welsh travellers and businesses. We cannot ignore the cascading down of moneys invested in the airport in terms of growing related businesses and industries. I'm convinced it will repay the Government's investment as soon as world travel returns to normal.

A gaf fi ategu diolch Helen Mary Jones a Russell George i'r Gweinidog am fy nghynnwys yn ei drafodaethau drwy gydol y pum mlynedd diwethaf, fel llefarydd ac ar ôl hynny? A gaf fi ddweud bod gennyf barch mawr tuag at eich galluoedd a'ch ymrwymiad i'ch dyletswyddau fel Gweinidog? Fel y gŵyr y Gweinidog, rwyf wedi bod yn gefnogwr brwd i strategaeth ymyrraeth Llywodraeth Cymru mewn perthynas â Maes Awyr Caerdydd. Cyn COVID, roedd y strategaeth honno'n talu ar ei chanfed, gyda ffigurau teithwyr yn codi'n sylweddol a chwmnïau awyrennau newydd yn cael eu denu i'r maes awyr. Felly, byddwn yn eich annog i barhau i gefnogi'r maes awyr, nid yn unig ar ôl y cyfyngiadau symud ond yn y dyfodol. Mae maes awyr rhyngwladol bywiog sy'n tyfu yn hanfodol er mwyn hyrwyddo Cymru i weddill y byd, ac wrth gwrs, mae'n gyfleuster hanfodol i deithwyr a busnesau o Gymru. Ni allwn anwybyddu’r modd y mae arian a fuddsoddir yn y maes awyr yn rhaeadru i gynnal twf busnesau a diwydiannau cysylltiedig. Rwy'n argyhoeddedig y bydd yn ad-dalu buddsoddiad y Llywodraeth cyn gynted ag y daw teithio'r byd yn normal unwaith eto.

14:05

Can I thank David Rowlands for his question and for his comments, and also for his kind words regarding the time that he's spent both as opposition spokesperson and as an MS who has scrutinised me very fairly? Very challenging at times, but very fairly. It's been a pleasure to have held this brief with such constructive opposition spokespeople and with a Siambr of dedicated MSs who care so passionately about the economy and transport in Wales. I can assure David Rowlands that this administration has considered Cardiff Airport an incredibly important national asset. I am hopeful that the next administration—if it's Labour led, then it certainly will be a key concern of ours in the years to come. David Rowlands is right; the airport has huge potential to support jobs across the region and beyond. It has huge potential as a flag carrier for the Welsh economy in demonstrating just how ambitious we are. The gross value added footprint of the airport is quite staggering, demonstrating that it has enormous potential to generate great prosperity for Wales. That's why, again, I make no apology for making sure that the airport survives.

A gaf fi ddiolch i David Rowlands am ei sylwadau a hefyd am ei eiriau caredig ynglŷn â'r amser a dreuliodd fel llefarydd gwrthblaid ac fel Aelod o'r Senedd sydd wedi craffu ar fy ngwaith yn deg iawn? Heriol iawn ar adegau, ond yn deg iawn. Mae wedi bod yn bleser cael y briff hwn gyda llefarwyr mor adeiladol yn y gwrthbleidiau a chyda Siambr o Aelodau o’r Senedd sydd mor angerddol am yr economi a thrafnidiaeth yng Nghymru. Gallaf sicrhau David Rowlands fod y weinyddiaeth hon wedi ystyried Maes Awyr Caerdydd yn ased cenedlaethol eithriadol o bwysig. Rwy’n gobeithio y bydd y weinyddiaeth nesaf—. Os caiff ei harwain gan y Blaid Lafur, bydd yn sicr yn fater allweddol i ni yn y blynyddoedd i ddod. Ac mae David Rowlands yn iawn; mae gan y maes awyr botensial enfawr i gefnogi swyddi ar draws y rhanbarth a thu hwnt. Mae ganddo botensial enfawr i gario'r faner dros economi Cymru a dangos pa mor uchelgeisiol yr ydym. Mae ôl troed gwerth ychwanegol gros y maes awyr yn eithaf syfrdanol, gan ddangos bod ganddo botensial enfawr i gynhyrchu ffyniant mawr i Gymru. Dyna pam, unwaith eto, nad wyf yn ymddiheuro am sicrhau bod y maes awyr yn goroesi.

Busnesau Lletygarwch
Hospitality Businesses

4. Sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn helpu busnesau lletygarwch yng ngogledd Cymru yn ystod y pandemig? OQ56345

4. How is the Welsh Government helping hospitality businesses in north Wales during the pandemic? OQ56345

Our latest restrictions business fund has seen over 22,000 grants paid to north Wales businesses, totalling over £69.5 million. Our hospitality, leisure and tourism sector-specific fund has also provided, to date, £12.7 million to almost 1,500 businesses. Last week, of course, I announced a further £30 million for that fund.

Mae ein cronfa ddiweddaraf i fusnesau dan gyfyngiadau wedi darparu dros 22,000 o grantiau i fusnesau gogledd Cymru, gwerth cyfanswm o dros £69.5 miliwn, ac mae ein cronfa lletygarwch, hamdden a thwristiaeth sy'n benodol i'r sector hefyd wedi darparu £12.7 miliwn hyd yma i bron i 1,500 o fusnesau. Yr wythnos diwethaf, wrth gwrs, cyhoeddais £30 miliwn arall ar gyfer y gronfa honno.

Each time the Welsh Government has announced financial support to help hospitality businesses survive the pandemic, it has excluded bed-and-breakfast businesses not eligible for small business rate relief because of rules that they have to comply with. They've been excluded from small business grants, unlike their counterparts in England and Scotland, and from each round of the economic resilience fund. On each occasion, I've been contacted by desperate small bed-and-breakfast businesses unable to understand why you have denied support to this vital part of local tourism economies. On each occasion, I've raised this with the Welsh Government, including yourself, to zero effect. How will you therefore respond to the subsequent e-mails received this year from struggling bed-and-breakfast businesses in north Wales stating, 'Looks like, once again, businesses like ours are missing out on the latest Government funding', 'ERF criteria once again disqualifies us' and 'What are we supposed to do for funding now? Can you please contact Welsh Government to find out why businesses like ours are not able to receive grant help despite being required to close down?'?

Bob tro y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cyhoeddi cymorth ariannol i helpu busnesau lletygarwch i oroesi'r pandemig, mae wedi eithrio busnesau gwely a brecwast nad ydynt yn gymwys i gael rhyddhad ardrethi busnesau bach oherwydd rheolau y mae'n rhaid iddynt gydymffurfio â hwy. Maent wedi'u heithrio rhag grantiau busnesau bach, yn wahanol i'w cymheiriaid yn Lloegr a'r Alban, ac wedi’u heithrio o bob cylch o'r gronfa cadernid economaidd. Ar bob achlysur, mae busnesau gwely a brecwast bach pryderus wedi cysylltu â mi i ddweud nad ydynt yn gallu deall pam eich bod wedi gwrthod cymorth i'r rhan hanfodol hon o economïau twristiaeth lleol. Ar bob achlysur, rwyf wedi codi hyn gyda Llywodraeth Cymru, gan gynnwys chi eich hun, ond mae pob ymdrech wedi bod yn ofer. Sut felly y gwnewch chi ymateb i'r negeseuon e-bost dilynol a ddaeth i law eleni gan fusnesau gwely a brecwast sy'n cael trafferth yng ngogledd Cymru, ac sy'n dweud, 'Mae'n ymddangos, unwaith eto, fod cyllid diweddaraf y Llywodraeth wedi'i wrthod i fusnesau fel ein busnes ni', 'Unwaith eto, mae meini prawf y gronfa cadernid economaidd yn nodi nad ydym yn gymwys' a 'Beth rydym i fod i'w wneud am gyllid yn awr? A allwch chi gysylltu â Llywodraeth Cymru i ddarganfod pam nad yw busnesau fel ein busnes ni'n gallu cael cymorth grant er bod gofyn i ni gau?'

I thank Mark Isherwood for his question and just remind Members again that we're investing more than £2 billion in businesses in Wales. That's £400 million more than we've received in business-related consequentials, and it demonstrates that we are maintaining the most generous and comprehensive packages of support for businesses anywhere in the United Kingdom. But, of course, that package of support is in addition to the UK Government schemes—the self-employment income support scheme and the job retention scheme—which should be applicable to many of those businesses that have approach Mark Isherwood. They should be drawing down funding via that route.

Our role is ensuring that we add value and ensure that operating costs are met for businesses. For those that Mark Isherwood has identified, there is, of course, the discretionary grant fund that's available to local authorities to use in supporting local businesses, and there's also the discretionary assistance fund, which has been increased very substantially during this pandemic, recognising that many individuals are suffering as a result of a loss of income or a loss of employment. That's precisely the sort of fund I'd encourage Mark Isherwood to point those businesses towards.

Diolch i Mark Isherwood am ei gwestiwn a hoffwn atgoffa'r Aelodau eto ein bod yn buddsoddi mwy na £2 biliwn mewn busnesau yng Nghymru. Dyna £400 miliwn yn fwy nag a gawsom mewn symiau canlyniadol sy'n gysylltiedig â busnes, ac mae'n dangos ein bod yn cynnal y pecynnau cymorth mwyaf hael a chynhwysfawr i fusnesau yn unrhyw ran o'r Deyrnas Unedig. Ond wrth gwrs, mae'r pecyn cymorth hwnnw'n ychwanegol at gynlluniau Llywodraeth y DU—y cynllun cymorth incwm i’r hunangyflogedig a'r cynllun cadw swyddi—a ddylai fod yn berthnasol i lawer o'r busnesau sydd wedi cysylltu â Mark Isherwood. Dylent fod yn cael arian drwy'r llwybr hwnnw.

Ein rôl ni yw sicrhau ein bod yn ychwanegu gwerth a sicrhau bod costau gweithredu'n cael eu talu i fusnesau. I'r rhai y mae Mark Isherwood wedi'u nodi wrth gwrs, mae'r gronfa grant dewisol ar gael i awdurdodau lleol ei defnyddio i gefnogi busnesau lleol, ac mae'r gronfa cymorth dewisol hefyd, sydd wedi'i chwyddo'n sylweddol iawn yn ystod y pandemig hwn, gan gydnabod bod llawer o unigolion yn dioddef o ganlyniad i golli incwm neu golli cyflogaeth. Dyna'r union fath o gronfa y byddwn yn annog Mark Isherwood i gyfeirio'r busnesau hynny tuag ati.

Minister, we've spoken previously in this Chamber about how the hospitality industry is probably one of the most COVID secure. Figures show that people are more likely to contract COVID in a hospital than a pub or a restaurant. Minister, there was a victory for common sense this week when the UK Government lost a case brought by the Manchester hospitality industry in terms of the restrictions put on the industry. How will that judgment affect your approach to the reopening of hospitality in Wales? Thank you.

Weinidog, rydym wedi siarad o'r blaen yn y Siambr hon am y modd y mae'r diwydiant lletygarwch yn un o'r rhai mwyaf diogel rhag COVID yn ôl pob tebyg. Mae ffigyrau'n dangos bod pobl yn fwy tebygol o ddal COVID mewn ysbyty nag mewn tafarn neu fwyty. Weinidog, cafwyd buddugoliaeth i synnwyr cyffredin pan gollodd Llywodraeth y DU achos a gyflwynwyd gan ddiwydiant lletygarwch Manceinion mewn perthynas â'r cyfyngiadau a osodwyd ar y diwydiant. Sut y bydd y dyfarniad hwnnw'n effeithio ar eich dull chi o ailagor y sector lletygarwch yng Nghymru? Diolch.

14:10

Can I thank Mandy Jones for her question and say that we do have a process in place, a 21-day review process, that enables us to determine how we can safely reopen the economy? We're keen to make sure that hospitality, tourism and leisure can reopen as soon as possible, but they must do so in the safest way possible as well. No matter how small, pretty much every sector has, unfortunately, a contributing factor in transmission rates. Therefore, whilst, yes, they are operating in very much a COVID-safe way, there is still the risk that hospitality, tourism and leisure-related businesses, at this time, if they were to reopen prematurely, could contribute to a significant increase in the number of possible admissions, which in turn would put hospitals under enormous pressure. We're keen to make sure that businesses are able to open in a safe way as soon as they possibly can, and we have that regular routine of 21-day reviews to ensure that we can open up society and the economy in the safest possible way.

A gaf fi ddiolch i Mandy Jones am ei chwestiwn a dweud bod gennym broses ar waith, proses adolygu 21 diwrnod, sy'n ein galluogi i benderfynu sut y gallwn ailagor yr economi'n ddiogel? Ac rydym yn awyddus i sicrhau y gall lletygarwch, twristiaeth a hamdden ailagor cyn gynted â phosibl, ond mae'n rhaid iddynt wneud hynny yn y ffordd fwyaf diogel sy'n bosibl hefyd. Ni waeth pa mor fach ydyw, mae gan bob sector, yn anffodus, ffactor sy'n cyfrannu at gyfraddau trosglwyddo. Felly, er eu bod yn gweithredu mewn ffordd sy'n ddiogel iawn rhag COVID, mae perygl o hyd ar hyn o bryd, pe baent yn ailagor yn rhy gynnar, y gallai busnesau lletygarwch, twristiaeth a hamdden gyfrannu at gynnydd sylweddol yn nifer y derbyniadau posibl i ysbytai, a fyddai yn ei dro yn rhoi ysbytai dan bwysau aruthrol. Rydym yn awyddus i sicrhau bod busnesau'n gallu agor mewn ffordd ddiogel cyn gynted ag y gallant, ac mae gennym drefn reolaidd yr adolygiadau 21 diwrnod i sicrhau y gallwn agor y gymdeithas a'r economi yn y ffordd fwyaf diogel sy'n bosibl.

Adferiad Busnesau
Business Recovery

5. Sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi adferiad busnesau yng ngogledd Cymru? OQ56348

5. How is the Welsh Government supporting business recovery in north Wales? OQ56348

Well, further to my answer to Mark Isherwood, in north Wales, we've also provided over 2,500 businesses with £44.1 million of support under phases 1 and 2 of the economic resilience fund, safeguarding more than 20,000 jobs in north Wales. In north Wales, we've also provided £1.1 million to 472 start-up businesses.

Wel, yn ychwanegol at fy ateb i Mark Isherwood, yng ngogledd Cymru, rydym hefyd wedi darparu £44.1 miliwn o gymorth i dros 2,500 o fusnesau o dan gamau 1 a 2 y gronfa cadernid economaidd, gan ddiogelu dros 20,000 o swyddi. Yng ngogledd Cymru hefyd, rydym wedi darparu £1.1 miliwn i 472 o fusnesau newydd.

Thank you, Minister. Can I say thank you, diolch, for your responses whenever I've raised scrutiny and challenging questions with you, and also for your fair approach? Whenever I've raised any issues with you regarding transport or other issues within Aberconwy, you've always been very fair.

The latest round of the economic resilience fund will see £30 million targeted at hospitality businesses with 10 or more employees. As our colleague Helen Mary said, it's 10 or more employees—and Mark Isherwood raised it also—what about those who have five or six employees? How did you draw the line? Also, can you explain the difference between businesses employing nine and 10 people, especially the confusion that's arisen?

I've had a few tourism forums, Minister, and there's some confusion about the additional £150 million that's going to be made available through non-domestic rates grants. You've confirmed to date that this will only be extended if restrictions are extended on 12 March, and that's causing some great uncertainty with those businesses. They really do need to know now whether there's any likelihood of them opening up over Easter, or is it going to be April or is it going to be May. Because these businesses really need to plan. There's been mention of us moving to alert level 3 after 12 March, and level 3, of course, is a confirmed case rate of more than 150 cases per 100,000 people. But the latest rolling seven-day average is 57 cases per 100,000. This is putting huge expectation on these business owners now. So, I'd be really grateful if you could make a clear statement on that.

And my final point: there's been a lot of anti-visitor rhetoric, I'm afraid, and in our tourism industry, 80 per cent of their industry, tourism business, comes from over the border in England, hence why they want to see a levelling up of reopening levels. What steps can you take, Minister, working with Visit Wales, to ensure that those messages are completely eradicated, and that when we are reopen for business, we are very welcoming and we say a large 'croeso' to anybody coming from over the border here to north Wales and Aberconwy to enjoy their holidays?

Diolch, Weinidog, ac a gaf fi ddweud diolch am eich ymatebion bob tro rwyf wedi gofyn cwestiynau craff a heriol i chi, a hefyd am eich ymagwedd deg? Bob tro rwyf wedi codi unrhyw faterion gyda chi ynghylch trafnidiaeth neu faterion eraill yn Aberconwy, rydych bob amser wedi bod yn deg iawn.

Nawr, bydd rownd ddiweddaraf y gronfa cadernid economaidd yn gweld £30 miliwn yn cael ei dargedu at fusnesau lletygarwch gyda 10 neu fwy o weithwyr. Ac fel y dywedodd ein cyd-Aelod Helen Mary, mae'n 10 neu fwy o weithwyr—a chododd Mark Isherwood hyn hefyd—beth am y rhai sydd â phump neu chwech o weithwyr? Sut y gwnaethoch chi dynnu'r llinell? Hefyd, a allwch chi esbonio'r gwahaniaeth rhwng busnes sy'n cyflogi naw o bobl a busnes sy’n cyflogi 10 o bobl, ac yn enwedig y dryswch sydd wedi digwydd?

Rwyf wedi cael sawl fforwm twristiaeth, Weinidog, ac mae rhywfaint o ddryswch ynglŷn â'r £150 miliwn ychwanegol a fydd ar gael drwy grantiau ardrethi annomestig. Rydych wedi cadarnhau hyd yma mai dim ond os caiff cyfyngiadau eu hymestyn ar 12 Mawrth y caiff hyn ei ymestyn, ac mae hynny'n achosi ansicrwydd mawr gyda'r busnesau hynny. Mae gwir angen iddynt wybod yn awr a oes unrhyw debygolrwydd y byddant yn agor dros y Pasg, neu a fydd hi'n fis Ebrill neu a fydd hi'n fis Mai? Oherwydd mae gwir angen i'r busnesau hyn gynllunio. Mae sôn wedi bod y byddwn yn symud i lefel rhybudd 3 ar ôl 12 Mawrth, a lefel 3, wrth gwrs, yw cyfradd achosion wedi'i chadarnhau o fwy na 150 achos ym mhob 100,000 o bobl. Ond y cyfartaledd saith diwrnod diweddaraf yw 57 achos ym mhob 100,000. Mae hyn yn gosod disgwyliad enfawr ar y perchnogion busnes hyn yn awr. Felly, byddwn yn ddiolchgar iawn pe gallech wneud datganiad clir ar hynny.

A fy mhwynt olaf yw hwn: mae llawer o rethreg gwrth-ymwelwyr wedi bod, mae arnaf ofn, ac yn ein diwydiant twristiaeth, daw 80 y cant o'u diwydiant, busnes twristiaeth, o dros y ffin yn Lloegr, a dyna pam eu bod eisiau gweld lefelau ailagor yr un fath. Pa gamau y gallwch eu cymryd, Weinidog, gan weithio gyda Croeso Cymru, i sicrhau bod y negeseuon hynny'n cael eu dileu'n llwyr a phan fyddwn yn ailagor ar gyfer busnes, ein bod yn groesawgar iawn wrth unrhyw un sy'n dod o dros y ffin yma i ogledd Cymru ac i Aberconwy i fwynhau eu gwyliau?

Can I thank Janet Finch-Saunders for her very kind words and say that I've hugely enjoyed working with her? She may be a Member of the opposition to my party, but, equally, she's been very constructive and fair in the way that she's both scrutinised me and sought answers to questions.

Obviously, the next 21-day review is taking place next week, so businesses within tourism, hospitality and leisure sectors will learn about whether they'll be able to reopen in time for Easter. But, as I said on the previous question, what's essential is that any business that's reopening does so in a safe way. And should that £150 million need to be utilised to support businesses, then it will be beyond next week. It will give a guarantee to businesses of all sizes that they'll have support from Welsh Government with grants of up to £5,000 available for them. And that gives me assurance that, regardless of the outcome of the review next week, there will be an income, either through the form of a grant from Welsh Government, or through generating custom over the following weeks.

I would also agree with Janet Finch-Saunders that there should be no anti-visitor rhetoric. The message from Visit Wales throughout this pandemic has been, 'Visit Wales later'. We're keen to ensure that when it's safe for people to visit Wales again, then we will be throwing open our arms to maximise opportunities for businesses within Wales. But, of course, communities that rely on the visitor economy for employment have suffered incredibly badly during this pandemic, and that's why we've been so keen—and Dafydd Elis-Thomas as the excellent tourism Minister has been so keen to ensure that we've given the most generous package of support to tourism and the hospitality and leisure businesses anywhere in the United Kingdom.

And if I could just flag up a comparison between England and Wales: if you look at the maximum grant available to all businesses in England with a rateable value of less than £15,000, then it's £6,000; if you look at the equivalent in Wales for tourism and hospitality, it will be around £10,000. And that excludes, actually, the unique £180 million and £30 million additional funds that have been made available for hospitality, leisure and tourism businesses. So, in total, in Wales, we've undertaken two rounds of the restrictions fund since December, alongside two hospitality, leisure and tourism sector-specific funds, and, of course, prior to that, there was the business development fund—all of these funds available and utilised by great businesses in the tourism sector.

A gaf fi ddiolch i Janet Finch-Saunders am ei geiriau caredig iawn a dweud fy mod wedi mwynhau gweithio gyda hi yn fawr? Efallai ei bod yn Aelod o'r wrthblaid, ond yn yr un modd, mae wedi bod yn adeiladol ac yn deg iawn yn y ffordd y mae wedi craffu ar fy ngwaith ac wedi gofyn am atebion i gwestiynau.

Yn amlwg, cynhelir yr adolygiad 21 diwrnod nesaf yr wythnos nesaf, felly bydd busnesau yn y sectorau twristiaeth, lletygarwch a hamdden yn cael clywed a fyddant yn gallu ailagor mewn pryd ar gyfer y Pasg. Ond fel y dywedais mewn ymateb i'r cwestiwn blaenorol, yr hyn sy'n hanfodol yw bod unrhyw fusnes sy'n ailagor yn gwneud hynny mewn ffordd ddiogel. Ac os bydd angen defnyddio'r £150 miliwn i gefnogi busnesau, bydd hynny'n digwydd y tu hwnt i'r wythnos nesaf. Bydd yn rhoi gwarant i fusnesau o bob maint y byddant yn cael cymorth gan Lywodraeth Cymru gyda grantiau o hyd at £5,000 sydd ar gael ar eu cyfer. Ac mae hynny'n rhoi sicrwydd i mi, beth bynnag fo canlyniad yr adolygiad yr wythnos nesaf, y bydd yna incwm, naill ai ar ffurf grant gan Lywodraeth Cymru, neu drwy gynhyrchu busnes dros yr wythnosau nesaf.

Byddwn hefyd yn cytuno â Janet Finch-Saunders na ddylid cael rhethreg gwrth-ymwelwyr. Y neges gan Croeso Cymru drwy gydol y pandemig hwn yw, 'Hwyl fawr. Am y tro.' Pan fydd hi'n ddiogel i bobl ymweld â Chymru eto, rydym yn awyddus i sicrhau y byddwn yn croesawu'r cyfle i fanteisio i'r eithaf ar gyfleoedd i fusnesau yng Nghymru. Ond wrth gwrs, mae cymunedau sy'n dibynnu ar yr economi ymwelwyr am gyflogaeth wedi dioddef yn eithriadol o wael yn ystod y pandemig hwn, a dyna pam ein bod wedi bod mor awyddus—ac mae Dafydd Elis-Thomas, fel y Gweinidog twristiaeth ardderchog wedi bod mor awyddus i sicrhau ein bod yn cynnig y pecyn cymorth mwyaf hael i fusnesau lletygarwch, hamdden a thwristiaeth yn unrhyw ran o'r Deyrnas Unedig.

Ac os caf dynnu sylw at gymhariaeth rhwng Cymru a Lloegr: os edrychwch ar uchafswm y grant sydd ar gael i bob busnes yn Lloegr sydd â gwerth ardrethol o lai na £15,000, mae'n £6,000; os edrychwch ar yr hyn sy'n cyfateb yng Nghymru i dwristiaeth a lletygarwch, fe fydd oddeutu £10,000. Ac mewn gwirionedd, nid yw hynny'n cynnwys y £180 miliwn unigryw a'r £30 miliwn o arian ychwanegol sydd ar gael i fusnesau lletygarwch, hamdden a thwristiaeth. Felly, yng Nghymru, rydym wedi gweithredu dau gylch o'r gronfa i fusnesau dan gyfyngiadau ers mis Rhagfyr, ochr yn ochr â dwy gronfa sy'n benodol i'r sectorau lletygarwch, hamdden a thwristiaeth, ac wrth gwrs, cyn hynny, roedd y gronfa datblygu busnes—mae'r holl gronfeydd hyn ar gael ac yn cael eu defnyddio gan fusnesau gwych yn y sector twristiaeth.

14:15

There's a lot of love being shared in this question session today; long may it continue—a lot of kindness. Jack Sargeant, the next question is yours.

Mae llawer o gariad yn cael ei rannu yn y sesiwn gwestiynau hon heddiw; gobeithio y bydd yn parhau—llawer o garedigrwydd. Jack Sargeant, eich cwestiwn chi sydd nesaf.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd, and I'll join the praises from Members of the opposition to your approach to the economy, Minister, and to your commitment towards north Wales in particular, and I commend you for that. Now, we do need to build back stronger and greener, and be ambitious in our plans for recovery to create jobs in Deeside. This year, Shotton Steel turns 125, and I want it to be growing and employing people for the next 125 years. Now, this has to be a major employer for our future generations. I want to see Shotton Steel become the first carbon-neutral plant in the UK, and I want it to produce the steel for the green products of the future. So, Minister, will you continue your conversations with Tata Shotton about their logistics hub to supply green modular buildings of the future, and to support them in making the plants carbon neutral? 

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd, a hoffwn ategu canmoliaeth Aelodau'r gwrthbleidiau i'ch gwaith ar yr economi, Weinidog, a'ch ymrwymiad tuag at ogledd Cymru'n arbennig, ac rwy'n eich canmol am hynny. Nawr, mae angen inni adeiladu nôl yn gryfach ac yn fwy gwyrdd, a bod yn uchelgeisiol yn ein cynlluniau ar gyfer adfer er mwyn creu swyddi yng Nglannau Dyfrdwy. Eleni, mae Shotton Steel yn 125 oed, ac rwyf eisiau iddo fod yn tyfu ac yn cyflogi pobl am y 125 mlynedd nesaf. Nawr, mae'n rhaid i hwn fod yn gyflogwr pwysig i genedlaethau'r dyfodol. Rwyf eisiau sicrhau mai Shotton Steel fydd ffatri carbon niwtral gyntaf y DU, ac rwyf eisiau iddi gynhyrchu'r dur ar gyfer cynnyrch gwyrdd y dyfodol. Felly, Weinidog, a wnewch chi barhau â'ch sgyrsiau gyda Tata Shotton am eu hyb logisteg i gyflenwi adeiladau modiwlaidd gwyrdd y dyfodol, a'u cefnogi i wneud y safleoedd yn garbon niwtral?

Well, can I thank Jack Sargeant for his questions, and for his kind remarks as well? Yes, Members are being very kind today. It's making me wonder whether there's a conspiracy, whether all Members know something about my fate on 6 May with these kind words and tributes to be made, but it has been an absolute pleasure to work with Members over the past five years during my time in this role, and, of course, that's involved a focus on north Wales as the Minister for north Wales.

There are few companies that are as good as Tata in Shotton in terms of employment prospects and development of the workforce, and we're absolutely determined to secure a sustainable long-term future for the steel industry in Wales, including Tata Steel in Shotton, and we're working to make sure that we work with those businesses in developing plans that will meet the aspirations of our zero-carbon targets. And our new manufacturing plan, which was launched just last week, identifies some of the steps that are needed to decarbonise industry. I'm pleased that we're already participating in the £315 million industrial energy transformation fund, which provides capital investment in energy efficiency and decarbonisation projects. Tata has been invited to take part—I'm pleased to say—in a study evaluating the future skills needs of foundation industries, with a specific focus on decarbonisation, and this is being co-ordinated by Innovate UK as part of the UK's £150 million transforming foundation industries initiative. So, Tata are demonstrating a clear determination to make sure that they can undergo a safe transition.

And in terms of other opportunities for Shotton Steel, obviously, I was disappointed to learn that the Heathrow logistics hub work is not going ahead as intended. I know that Tata Steel were looking forward to working on that. However, we fully support Tata Steel's ambitions of developing its own logistics hub at Shotton, and my officials are working very closely with the company to explore the options for opening up the third access road, which will be so important in the development of a hub. 

Wel, a gaf fi ddiolch i Jack Sargeant am ei gwestiynau, ac am ei sylwadau caredig hefyd? Mae'n wir fod yr Aelodau'n garedig iawn heddiw. Mae'n gwneud i mi feddwl tybed a oes cynllwyn, a yw'r holl Aelodau'n gwybod rhywbeth am fy nhynged ar 6 Mai gyda'r geiriau a'r teyrngedau caredig hyn sy'n cael eu gwneud, ond mae wedi bod yn bleser gweithio gyda'r Aelodau dros y pum mlynedd diwethaf yn ystod fy amser yn y rôl hon, ac wrth gwrs, mae hynny wedi cynnwys ffocws ar ogledd Cymru fel Gweinidog gogledd Cymru.

Prin yw'r cwmnïau sydd cystal â Tata yn Shotton o ran rhagolygon cyflogaeth a datblygu'r gweithlu, ac rydym yn gwbl benderfynol o sicrhau dyfodol hirdymor cynaliadwy i'r diwydiant dur yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys Tata Steel yn Shotton, ac rydym yn gweithio i sicrhau ein bod yn gweithio gyda'r busnesau hynny i ddatblygu cynlluniau a fydd yn cyrraedd ein targedau di-garbon. Ac mae ein cynllun gweithgynhyrchu newydd, a lansiwyd yr wythnos diwethaf, yn nodi rhai o'r camau sydd eu hangen i ddatgarboneiddio diwydiant. Rwy'n falch ein bod eisoes yn cymryd rhan yn y gronfa trawsnewid ynni diwydiannol gwerth £315 miliwn, sy'n buddsoddi cyfalaf mewn prosiectau effeithlonrwydd ynni a datgarboneiddio. Gwahoddwyd Tata i gymryd rhan—rwy'n falch o ddweud—mewn astudiaeth sy'n gwerthuso anghenion sgiliau diwydiannau sylfaen yn y dyfodol, gan ganolbwyntio'n benodol ar ddatgarboneiddio, ac mae Innovate UK yn cydlynu hyn fel rhan o fenter gwerth £150 miliwn i drawsnewid diwydiannau sylfaen y DU. Felly, mae Tata yn dangos penderfyniad clir i sicrhau y gallant bontio'n ddiogel.

Ac o ran cyfleoedd eraill i Shotton Steel, yn amlwg roeddwn yn siomedig o glywed nad yw gwaith hyb logisteg Heathrow yn mynd rhagddo fel y bwriadwyd. Gwn fod Tata Steel yn edrych ymlaen at weithio ar hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, rydym yn llwyr gefnogi uchelgais Tata Steel i ddatblygu ei hyb logisteg ei hun yn Shotton, ac mae fy swyddogion yn gweithio'n agos iawn gyda'r cwmni i archwilio'r opsiynau ar gyfer agor y drydedd ffordd fynediad, a fydd mor bwysig wrth ddatblygu hyb. 

14:20
Adferiad Economaidd Canol Dinas Caerdydd
The Economic Recovery of Cardiff City Centre

6. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i gefnogi adferiad economaidd canol dinas Caerdydd yn sgil y pandemig? OQ56358

6. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to support the economic recovery of Cardiff city centre in light of the pandemic? OQ56358

As part of our Transforming Towns approach, the Welsh Government and our partners in local government have adopted the 'town centre first' principle that is so important the length and breadth of Wales. Cardiff Council has received over £3.5 million in Transforming Towns funding to date. Possible interventions include digital-based, green infrastructure, residential and commercial property and active travel investments.

Fel rhan o'n dull Trawsnewid Trefi, mae Llywodraeth Cymru a'n partneriaid mewn llywodraeth leol wedi mabwysiadu'r egwyddor 'canol y dref yn gyntaf' sydd mor bwysig ar hyd a lled Cymru. Mae Cyngor Caerdydd wedi cael dros £3.5 miliwn o gyllid Trawsnewid Trefi hyd yma. Mae ymyriadau posibl yn cynnwys buddsoddiadau mewn technoleg ddigidol, seilwaith gwyrdd, eiddo preswyl a masnachol a theithio llesol.

Thank you for that, and I'd also like to add my loving remarks about your excellent targeted use of limited resources to supplement what is available from the UK Government to support businesses like taxi drivers and freelancers like musicians, which has really been appreciated.

But turning back to the challenges facing Cardiff city centre, obviously, we have lots of unique selling points, like the millennium stadium, like the range of fantastic performance venues with, in close proximity, the shops, the restaurants and the cafés, which is why people like to come to the city centre. BT Openreach has reassured me that we do have fibre-based superfast broadband that covers most of the city centre, so we can think about remote working hubs. But the challenges we face include the fact that Debenhams and Howells have been taken over by companies that are not interested in trading on the high street, and we need to repurpose these buildings to maintain that vibrant and tight-knit city centre. Yet, we're still being bombarded by developers' high-rise building proposals that could just exacerbate a potential oversupply of offices and shops. So, I've been talking to FOR Cardiff, who lead the business improvement district and to constituents about how we can rebuild that vibrancy to be greener, fairer and sustainable. What support can the Welsh Government offer to ensure that whatever capital is available is used to meet our sustainable development objectives to build back fairer?

Diolch am hynny, a hoffwn innau hefyd ychwanegu fy sylwadau caredig am y ffordd wych rydych wedi targedu adnoddau cyfyngedig i ategu'r hyn sydd ar gael gan Lywodraeth y DU i gefnogi busnesau fel gyrwyr tacsis a gweithwyr llawrydd fel cerddorion, rhywbeth sydd wedi cael ei werthfawrogi'n fawr.

Ond gan droi'n ôl at yr heriau sy'n wynebu canol dinas Caerdydd, yn amlwg, mae gennym lawer o bwyntiau gwerthu unigryw, fel stadiwm y mileniwm, fel yr amrywiaeth o leoliadau perfformio gwych gyda'r siopau, y bwytai a'r caffis cyfagos, a dyna pam y mae pobl yn hoffi dod i ganol y ddinas. Mae BT Openreach wedi fy sicrhau bod gennym fand eang ffeibr cyflym iawn dros y rhan fwyaf o ganol y ddinas, felly gallwn feddwl am hybiau gweithio o bell. Ond mae'r heriau sy'n ein hwynebu yn cynnwys y ffaith bod cwmnïau fel Debenhams a Howells wedi cael eu prynu gan gwmnïau nad oes ganddynt ddiddordeb mewn masnachu ar y stryd fawr, ac mae angen i ni addasu'r adeiladau hyn at ddibenion gwahanol er mwyn cynnal teimlad bywiog a chlos canol y ddinas. Ac eto, rydym yn dal i foddi mewn cynigion gan ddatblygwyr adeiladau uchel iawn a allai waethygu gorgyflenwad posibl o swyddfeydd a siopau. Felly, rwyf wedi bod yn siarad gyda FOR Cardiff, sy'n arwain yr ardal gwella busnes, a chydag etholwyr, ynglŷn â sut y gallwn ailadeiladu'r bywiogrwydd hwnnw i fod yn wyrddach, yn decach ac yn gynaliadwy. Pa gymorth y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei gynnig i sicrhau bod pa gyfalaf bynnag sydd ar gael yn cael ei ddefnyddio i gyflawni ein hamcanion datblygu cynaliadwy i adeiladu nôl yn decach?

Can I thank Jenny Rathbone for her question today, and also for the many campaigns that she has led during this term, and in particular during this pandemic? The way that she has supported and championed taxi drivers and freelancers, particularly freelancers in the creative industries who do so much for Cardiff—it's my view that some of the most creative cities on this planet are the most attractive places in which to live, and so the creative industries have a huge role in terms of placemaking and in improving the atmosphere, aesthetics and attractiveness of our places.

In regard to the question that Jenny Rathbone asked, obviously, the Welsh Government, through the Transforming Towns initiative that Hannah Blythyn is leading on, has a role in supporting the transformation and transition of town and city centres to places that are more attractive, that are more conducive to leisure activities and social activities, not just reliant on retail, but complementary to retail. There's also a really important role that local government plays in this regard, as well. Cardiff city council has been quite incredible in the way that it has worked with the Welsh Government and with partner local authorities across the region in promoting that sense of well-being within our urban communities. So, we're keen, and we'll go on being keen to work with local authorities in ensuring they've got the right infrastructure in place to promote economic development in a sustainable way, including digital infrastructure, and that they are developing their urban spaces in a way that promotes a green recovery. That includes more greening of our environment, it includes improved land-use planning, integrated with transport infrastructure planning, and this is the sort of development that we wish to see across Wales.

A gaf fi ddiolch i Jenny Rathbone am ei chwestiwn heddiw, a hefyd am yr ymgyrchoedd niferus y mae wedi'u harwain yn ystod y tymor hwn, ac yn arbennig yn ystod y pandemig hwn? Mae'r ffordd y mae wedi cefnogi a dadlau achos gyrwyr tacsis a gweithwyr llawrydd, yn enwedig gweithwyr llawrydd yn y diwydiannau creadigol sy'n gwneud cymaint dros Gaerdydd—rwyf o'r farn mai rhai o'r dinasoedd mwyaf creadigol ar y blaned hon yw'r lleoedd mwyaf deniadol i fyw ynddynt, ac felly mae gan y diwydiannau creadigol rôl enfawr yn creu lleoedd a gwella awyrgylch, estheteg ac atyniad ein lleoedd.

Ar y cwestiwn a ofynnodd Jenny Rathbone, yn amlwg, drwy'r fenter Trawsnewid Trefi y mae Hannah Blythyn yn ei harwain, mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru ran i'w chwarae'n cefnogi'r gwaith o drawsnewid canol trefi a dinasoedd yn lleoedd sy'n fwy deniadol, sy'n fwy addas ar gyfer gweithgareddau hamdden a gweithgareddau cymdeithasol, mewn ffordd nad yw'n dibynnu ar fanwerthu yn unig, ond sy'n ategu manwerthu. Mae llywodraeth leol yn chwarae rhan bwysig iawn yn hyn o beth hefyd. Mae cyngor dinas Caerdydd wedi bod yn eithaf anhygoel yn y ffordd y mae wedi gweithio gyda Llywodraeth Cymru a chydag awdurdodau lleol partner ar draws y rhanbarth i hyrwyddo'r ymdeimlad hwnnw o lesiant yn ein cymunedau trefol. Felly, rydym yn awyddus, a byddwn yn parhau i fod yn awyddus i weithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i sicrhau bod ganddynt y seilwaith cywir ar waith i hyrwyddo datblygiad economaidd mewn ffordd gynaliadwy, gan gynnwys seilwaith digidol, a'u bod yn datblygu eu mannau trefol mewn ffordd sy'n hyrwyddo adferiad gwyrdd. Mae hynny'n cynnwys gwneud ein hamgylchedd yn fwy gwyrdd, mae'n cynnwys cynllunio defnydd tir yn well, wedi'i integreiddio â chynllunio seilwaith trafnidiaeth, a dyma'r math o ddatblygiad rydym eisiau ei weld ledled Cymru.

Canol Dinas Casnewydd
Newport City Centre

7. Pa gymorth economaidd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i roi i ganol dinas Casnewydd yn ystod pandemig COVID-19? OQ56372

7. What economic support has the Welsh Government given to Newport city centre during the COVID-19 pandemic? OQ56372

14:25

I'm pleased to say that Newport City Council has been allocated around £7 million in grant and loan funding in support of its Transforming Towns programme. These projects include £1.2 million towards a £2.9 million project to improve the city centre's Market Arcade. 

Rwy'n falch o ddweud bod Cyngor Dinas Casnewydd wedi cael tua £7 miliwn o gyllid grant a benthyciad i gefnogi ei raglen Trawsnewid Trefi. Mae'r prosiectau hyn yn cynnwys £1.2 miliwn tuag at brosiect gwerth £2.9 miliwn i wella Arcêd y Farchnad yng nghanol y ddinas.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. Over the last few months, we have heard of big high street brands going into administration across the UK, and the restrictions, social distancing and working from home have had a huge impact on our city centres. The pandemic has already hit our struggling city centres hard, and it will permanently change how we see them. We have to think differently about how we support and develop them to attract footfall. I've been pleased to see the exciting plans in Newport of a knowledge quarter, involving Coleg Gwent coming into the city centre, a brand-new leisure centre and the redevelopment of the market, as you've mentioned. We'll need to ensure our city centres are safe places where people can work, live and shop, a place where people will want to spend time. How are the Welsh Government planning to continue to help and support our city centres as we recover, and what further support can Welsh Government provide to our retail, hospitality and leisure businesses on the high street, including those independent businesses, so that they can thrive and be at the heart of our recovery plan for our city centres?

Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Dros yr ychydig fisoedd diwethaf, rydym wedi clywed am frandiau mawr y stryd fawr yn mynd i ddwylo'r gweinyddwyr ledled y DU, ac mae'r cyfyngiadau, cadw pellter cymdeithasol a gweithio gartref wedi cael effaith enfawr ar ganol ein dinasoedd. Mae'r pandemig eisoes wedi taro canol ein dinasoedd yn galed, a bydd yn newid y ffordd y mae pobl yn eu gweld yn barhaol. Mae'n rhaid inni feddwl yn wahanol am y ffordd rydym yn eu cefnogi a'u datblygu i ddenu ymwelwyr. Rwyf wedi bod yn falch o weld y cynlluniau cyffrous yng Nghasnewydd ar gyfer ardal wybodaeth, sy'n cynnwys symud Coleg Gwent i ganol y ddinas, sefydlu canolfan hamdden newydd sbon ac ailddatblygu'r farchnad, fel rydych wedi'i grybwyll. Bydd angen i ni sicrhau bod canol ein dinasoedd yn fannau diogel lle gall pobl weithio, byw a siopa, mannau y bydd pobl eisiau treulio amser ynddynt. Sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n bwriadu parhau i helpu a chefnogi canol ein dinasoedd wrth i ni adfer, a pha gymorth pellach y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei roi i'n busnesau manwerthu, lletygarwch a hamdden ar y stryd fawr, gan gynnwys busnesau annibynnol, fel y gallant ffynnu a bod wrth wraidd ein cynllun adfer ar gyfer canol ein dinasoedd?

I thank Jayne Bryant for her question today and for being so consistent and so passionate in promoting Newport. I think there is great excitement in and around Newport about the city's prospects in the years to come, and we're working to make sure that we work in partnership with the local authority in delivering on some of those hugely ambitious schemes that Jayne has identified. In addition, I can inform Members that Welsh Government is currently developing a potential retail strategy that will address the swift transition towards digital retail and also the immediate impact of coronavirus on our high streets. We'll be working with the Welsh Retail Consortium in developing that strategy, and we'll also be working alongside trade union colleagues in social partnership to ensure that as many people as possible can be retained within the sector, even if it means upskilling or reskilling in order to take on new opportunities. 

We've also published the economic resilience and reconstruction mission, and within that mission, there are five beacons. One of those beacons really does address concerns that Jayne Bryant has identified today, the future of the high street. It's that foundation of our economy that needs to be strengthened, and that will be a key beacon in enhancing prospects for town and city centres in the years to come. 

The 'town centre first' approach, which has been so strongly embraced by local authorities, businesses and by business improvement districts across Wales will continue, and additional investment has been announced for the Transforming Towns initiative. And then there are also the business development grants that formed part of a previous round of the economic resilience fund and which are proving so important in ensuring that businesses within the retail sector and within hospitality and tourism are able to look to medium and long-term opportunities, not just deal with the here and now. And in the meantime, in the here and now, we've announced, of course, an additional £30 million for that sector-specific fund, which will prove so important to businesses in retail, in hospitality, in leisure and tourism, within Newport and, indeed, across Wales. 

Diolch i Jayne Bryant am ei chwestiwn heddiw ac am fod mor gyson ac mor angerddol wrth hyrwyddo Casnewydd. Rwy'n credu bod cyffro mawr yn ardal Casnewydd a'r cyffiniau am y rhagolygon ar gyfer y ddinas yn y blynyddoedd i ddod, ac rydym yn gweithio i sicrhau ein bod yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth â'r awdurdod lleol i gyflawni rhai o'r cynlluniau hynod uchelgeisiol hynny y mae Jayne wedi'u nodi. Yn ogystal, gallaf hysbysu'r Aelodau fod Llywodraeth Cymru wrthi'n datblygu strategaeth fanwerthu bosibl a fydd yn mynd i'r afael â'r newid cyflym tuag at fanwerthu digidol yn ogystal ag effaith uniongyrchol coronafeirws ar ein strydoedd mawr. Byddwn yn gweithio gyda Chonsortiwm Manwerthu Cymru i ddatblygu'r strategaeth honno, a byddwn hefyd yn gweithio ochr yn ochr â chydweithwyr undebau llafur mewn partneriaeth gymdeithasol i sicrhau y gellir cadw cynifer o bobl â phosibl o fewn y sector, hyd yn oed os yw'n golygu uwchsgilio neu ailsgilio er mwyn manteisio ar gyfleoedd newydd. 

Rydym hefyd wedi cyhoeddi'r genhadaeth i gryfhau ac ailadeiladu'r economi, ac o fewn y genhadaeth honno, ceir pum llusern. Mae un o'r llusernau hynny'n mynd i'r afael â phryderon y mae Jayne Bryant wedi'u nodi heddiw, dyfodol y stryd fawr. Mae angen cryfhau'r sylfaen honno yn ein heconomi, a bydd honno'n llusern allweddol wrth wella'r rhagolygon ar gyfer canol trefi a chanol dinasoedd yn y blynyddoedd i ddod. 

Bydd y dull 'canol y dref yn gyntaf', sydd wedi'i groesawu mor gryf gan awdurdodau lleol, busnesau ac ardaloedd gwella busnes ledled Cymru, yn parhau, ac mae buddsoddiad ychwanegol wedi'i gyhoeddi ar gyfer y fenter Trawsnewid Trefi. Ac yna ceir y grantiau datblygu busnes a oedd yn rhan o gylch blaenorol o'r gronfa cadernid economaidd ac sydd mor bwysig i sicrhau bod busnesau yn y sector manwerthu a'r sector lletygarwch a thwristiaeth yn gallu edrych ar gyfleoedd tymor canolig a hirdymor, yn hytrach nag ymdrin â'r presennol yn unig. Ac yn y cyfamser, yn y presennol, rydym wedi cyhoeddi £30 miliwn ychwanegol wrth gwrs ar gyfer y gronfa honno sy'n benodol i'r sector, a fydd mor bwysig i fusnesau manwerthu, lletygarwch, hamdden a thwristiaeth, yng Nghasnewydd, a ledled Cymru yn wir. 

Datblygiad Economaidd Canol Trefi
The Economic Development of Town Centres

8. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i gefnogi datblygiad economaidd canol trefi ym Merthyr Tudful a Rhymni? OQ56361

8. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to support the economic development of town centres in Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney? OQ56361

Three million pounds of funding has been made available to towns throughout Wales following a study by the Centre For Towns. Merthyr Tydfil has been awarded £834,549 to provide a grant scheme for businesses, which will support with enhancements both internally and externally to aid business trading in response to the pandemic.

Mae £3 miliwn o gyllid ar gael i drefi ledled Cymru yn dilyn astudiaeth gan Centre for Towns. Dyfarnwyd £834,549 i Ferthyr Tudful i ddarparu cynllun grant i fusnesau, a fydd yn cefnogi gyda gwelliannau'n fewnol ac yn allanol i gynorthwyo masnach busnesau mewn ymateb i'r pandemig.

Thank you for that answer, Deputy Minister. I was very pleased that, last week, when the Minister Ken Skates announced the reconstruction mission for Wales, this enshrined the principle of town centres first. Now, my particular concern is to ensure a better connected digital future that will sit alongside developments like the new bus station, metro services, road improvements on the Heads of the Valleys road, and so on. So, can you please confirm that, as part of this change, we will help to deliver a digital high street, ensuring that commercial, leisure and hospitality facilities can provide the best digital offer in order to underpin the versatility and flexibility of uses that towns in our Valleys will need in the years ahead?

Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Yr wythnos diwethaf, pan gyhoeddodd y Gweinidog Ken Skates y genhadaeth i ailadeiladu economi Cymru, roeddwn yn falch iawn ei bod yn ymgorffori'r egwyddor o ganol y dref yn gyntaf. Nawr, rwy'n arbennig o awyddus i sicrhau dyfodol digidol sydd wedi'i gysylltu'n well a fydd yn cyd-fynd â datblygiadau fel yr orsaf fysiau newydd, gwasanaethau metro, gwelliannau i ffordd Blaenau'r Cymoedd, ac yn y blaen. Felly, a allwch chi gadarnhau, fel rhan o'r newid hwn, y byddwn yn helpu i ddarparu stryd fawr ddigidol, gan sicrhau y gall cyfleusterau masnachol, hamdden a lletygarwch ddarparu'r cynnig digidol gorau i ategu'r defnydd hyblyg ac amlweddog y bydd ei angen ar drefi ein Cymoedd yn y blynyddoedd i ddod?

Yes, I completely agree. I think digital is a really important part of how we've regenerated town centres and how we create a data-based policy approach. So, there's already been support for the town and enabling towns. For example, Rhymney town centre has had a £30,000 grant to enable Caerphilly, to enable them, to introduce free Wi-Fi provision in the town centre. We're doing this now across the country. And critically, as well as providing free Wi-Fi, we're providing infrastructure for the 'internet of things' connectivity, the so-called LoRaWAN network, which has been trialled very successfully in Cardigan and across north-west Wales, where we can see footfall data—when people come, when they shop, how long they stay for—which gives, then, information for traders to think about their opening hours. So, for example, the data is showing that people are often staying in town centres later in the evening than shops are open for, so that information can then be used by business improvement districts and others to tailor the offer they make. So we're quite keen that, as well as the physical infrastructure, we'll also enable them to understand the data, interpret the data, and act on the data. So, we'll be announcing soon an important package to roll that out further.

In addition, for Merthyr council, we have provided, through the Valleys taskforce, £200,000 funding for a town-centre masterplan, which will be important to plot the centre of the town's role in the years to come. And I'd also add, beyond the town centre, I'm very keen that we support the Crucible project that's being developed in Cyfarthfa park, which is already a gateway hub for the Valleys regional park. I think that has got huge potential to bring people into Merthyr from across the country, creating a world-class visitor attraction. And I'm very pleased that we've been able to put important seed funding in to get that off the ground.

Ie, rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr. Rwy'n credu bod darpariaeth ddigidol yn rhan bwysig iawn o'r ffordd rydym wedi adfywio canol trefi a sut rydym yn creu dull polisi sy'n seiliedig ar ddata. Felly, mae cefnogaeth eisoes wedi bod i'r dref a galluogi trefi. Er enghraifft, mae canol tref Rhymni wedi cael grant o £30,000 i alluogi Caerffili, i'w galluogi i gyflwyno darpariaeth Wi-Fi am ddim yng nghanol y dref. Rydym bellach yn gwneud hyn ar draws y wlad. Ac yn hollbwysig, yn ogystal â darparu Wi-Fi am ddim, rydym yn darparu seilwaith ar gyfer cysylltedd 'rhyngrwyd pethau', y rhwydwaith LoRaWAN, fel y'i gelwir, sydd wedi cael ei dreialu'n llwyddiannus iawn yn Aberteifi ac ar draws gogledd-orllewin Cymru, lle gallwn weld data ar nifer yr ymwelwyr—pryd y mae pobl yn dod, pryd y byddant yn siopa, am ba hyd y maent yn aros—sy'n rhoi gwybodaeth i fasnachwyr fel y gallant ystyried eu horiau agor. Felly, er enghraifft, mae'r data'n dangos bod pobl yn aml yn aros yng nghanol trefi yn hwyrach gyda'r nos nag y mae siopau ar agor, felly gall ardaloedd gwella busnes ac eraill ddefnyddio'r wybodaeth honno i deilwra'r cynnig y maent yn ei wneud. Felly yn ogystal â'r seilwaith ffisegol, rydym yn awyddus hefyd i'w galluogi i ddeall y data, dehongli'r data, a gweithredu ar y data. Felly, byddwn yn cyhoeddi pecyn pwysig yn fuan i gyflwyno hynny ymhellach.

Yn ogystal, i gyngor Merthyr, rydym wedi darparu, drwy dasglu'r Cymoedd, £200,000 o gyllid ar gyfer uwchgynllun canol y dref, a fydd yn bwysig ar gyfer cynllunio rôl canol y dref yn y blynyddoedd i ddod. A byddwn hefyd yn ychwanegu, y tu hwnt i ganol y dref, rwy'n awyddus iawn i gefnogi prosiect Crucible sy'n cael ei ddatblygu ym mharc Cyfarthfa, sydd eisoes yn borth i barc rhanbarthol y Cymoedd. Credaf fod gan hwnnw botensial enfawr i ddenu pobl o bob rhan o'r wlad i Ferthyr, gan greu atyniad o'r radd flaenaf i ymwelwyr. Ac rwy'n falch iawn ein bod wedi gallu darparu cyllid cychwynnol pwysig i roi hwnnw ar waith.

14:30

Diolch i'r Dirprwy Weinidog a'r Gweinidog.

I thank the Deputy Minister and the Minister.

2. Cwestiynau i'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol a'r Gweinidog Pontio Ewropeaidd (yn rhinwedd ei gyfrifoldebau fel y Gweinidog Pontio Ewropeaidd)
2. Questions to the Counsel General and Minister for European Transition (in respect of his European Transition responsibilities)

Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r cwestiynau i'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol a'r Gweinidog Pontio Ewropeaidd mewn perthynas â'i gyfrifoldebau am bontio Ewropeaidd. Ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Dawn Bowden eto.

The next item is questions to the Counsel General and Minister for European Transition in respect of his European transition responsibilities. And the first question is from Dawn Bowden again.

Y Cytundeb Masnach a Chydweithredu rhwng y UE a'r DU
The EU-UK Trade and Co-operation Agreement

1. Beth yw asesiad diweddaraf Llywodraeth Cymru o effaith y cytundeb masnach a chydweithredu rhwng y UE a'r DU ar Gymoedd de Cymru? OQ56362

1. What is the Welsh Government's latest assessment of the impact of the EU-UK trade and co-operation agreement on the south Wales Valleys? OQ56362

Member
Jeremy Miles 14:32:22
Counsel General and Minister for European Transition

I recently published an analysis of the implications of the trade and co-operation agreement. The new relationship with the European Union negotiated by the United Kingdom Government disadvantages our businesses, limits the rights of our citizens to live and work abroad, and may make it more difficult to recruit workers for our essential services, and threatens investment in our communities.

Cyhoeddais ddadansoddiad yn ddiweddar o oblygiadau'r cytundeb masnach a chydweithredu. Mae'r berthynas newydd â'r Undeb Ewropeaidd a negodwyd gan Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yn rhoi ein busnesau dan anfantais, yn cyfyngu ar hawliau ein dinasyddion i fyw a gweithio dramor, a gallai ei gwneud yn anos recriwtio gweithwyr ar gyfer ein gwasanaethau hanfodol, ac mae'n bygwth buddsoddiad yn ein cymunedau.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. So, would you therefore agree that Boris Johnson's boast about his Brexit deal involving no tariffs, quotas or non-tariff barriers is now at odds with the experience of small manufacturing businesses in the Valleys, and what used to be as simple as trading with, say, Bristol or Birmingham is now more complicated than trading with Japan or Canada? Minister, I've today launched a survey of local firms in my constituency to gather more detailed evidence. And while it may still be too early to know the final outcome, would you agree that the new trading arrangements are currently acting as a drag on the economy of our south Wales Valleys?

Diolch ichi am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. A fyddech yn cytuno felly fod ymffrost Boris Johnson am ei gytundeb Brexit heb ddim tariffau, cwotâu na rhwystrau heblaw am dariffau bellach yn groes i brofiad busnesau gweithgynhyrchu bach yn y Cymoedd, ac mae'r hyn a arferai fod mor syml â masnachu gyda Bryste neu Birmingham, dyweder, bellach yn fwy cymhleth na masnachu gyda Japan neu Ganada? Weinidog, heddiw lansiais arolwg o gwmnïau lleol yn fy etholaeth i gasglu tystiolaeth fanylach. Ac er y gallai fod yn rhy gynnar o hyd i wybod y canlyniad terfynol, a fyddech yn cytuno bod y trefniadau masnachu newydd yn llyffethair ar economi Cymoedd de Cymru ar hyn o bryd?

Llywydd, may I say, I saw online earlier today the launch by Dawn Bowden of this survey? And I think it's an example of exactly the kind of engagement with businesses in constituencies that I think is essential as a result of leaving the transition period. So, I commend that initiative very strongly. And I agree with Dawn Bowden that the conditions for our businesses have changed radically at the end of December, and it'll continue to have, I'm afraid, a significant negative impact, acting, in the way that Dawn Bowden was saying, as a drag on some of our economies, including in the south Wales Valleys. Whilst the agreement does claim to provide zero-tariff and zero-quota arrangements, this is of course subject to products being able to meet other non-tariff barriers around rules of origin and to account for VAT, in a way that we are already seeing is causing significant challenges for many of our exporters. Many products can now no longer be exported at all to the EU, including in certain areas of food production. So, I do absolutely think that what we will find—and I fear what she will find from her survey—is that there will be very real-world implications for the economy and for businesses, and, crucially, for people's jobs and livelihoods.

Lywydd, hoffwn ddweud fy mod wedi gweld yr arolwg yn cael ei lansio ar-lein gan Dawn Bowden yn gynharach heddiw. Ac rwy'n credu ei fod yn enghraifft o'r union fath o ymgysylltiad â busnesau mewn etholaethau y credaf ei fod yn hanfodol yn fy ardal i o ganlyniad i adael y cyfnod pontio. Felly, cymeradwyaf y fenter honno'n gryf iawn. Ac rwy'n cytuno â Dawn Bowden fod yr amodau i'n busnesau wedi newid yn sylweddol ddiwedd mis Rhagfyr, a bydd yn parhau i gael effaith negyddol sylweddol, mae arnaf ofn, gan weithredu, yn y ffordd roedd Dawn Bowden yn ei ddweud, fel llyffethair ar rai o'n heconomïau, gan gynnwys yng Nghymoedd de Cymru. Er bod y cytundeb yn honni ei fod yn darparu trefniadau dim tariff a dim cwota, mae hyn wrth gwrs yn amodol ar allu cynhyrchion i gydymffurfio â rhwystrau eraill heblaw am dariffau mewn perthynas â rheolau tarddiad ac i gyfrif am TAW, mewn ffordd y gwelwn eisoes ei bod yn achosi heriau sylweddol i lawer o'n hallforwyr. Bellach, ceir llawer o gynhyrchion na ellir eu hallforio o gwbl i'r UE, gan gynnwys mewn rhai meysydd cynhyrchu bwyd. Felly, credaf yn bendant mai'r hyn a welwn—ac ofnaf mai'r hyn y gwêl hithau o'i harolwg—yw y bydd goblygiadau real iawn i'r economi ac i fusnesau, ac yn hollbwysig, i swyddi a bywoliaeth pobl.

Y Gronfa Ffyniant Gyffredin
The Shared Prosperity Fund

2. A wnaiff y Cwnsler Cyffredinol roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am gronfa ffyniant gyffredin Llywodraeth y DU? OQ56363

2. Will the Counsel General provide an update on the UK Government's shared prosperity fund? OQ56363

8. Pa sylwadau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'u cyflwyno i Lywodraeth y DU ynghylch gweithredu'r gronfa ffyniant gyffredin? OQ56370

8. What representations has the Welsh Government made to the UK Government concerning the operation of the shared prosperity fund? OQ56370

14:35

Llywydd, dwi'n deall eich bod chi wedi rhoi'ch caniatâd i gyfuno cwestiynau 2 ac 8. 

Llywydd, I understand you've given permission for questions 2 and 8 to be grouped. 

The UK Government are still not providing any detail about the shared prosperity fund, four years after first mooting it. But what is clear is that it intends to bypass devolution, but also to ignore the hard work of stakeholders right across Wales in creating our framework for regional investment.

Nid yw Llywodraeth y DU yn rhoi unrhyw fanylion o hyd am y gronfa ffyniant gyffredin, bedair blynedd ar ôl ei chrybwyll am y tro cyntaf. Ond yr hyn sy'n amlwg yw ei bod yn bwriadu anwybyddu datganoli, yn ogystal ag anwybyddu gwaith caled rhanddeiliaid ledled Cymru yn creu ein fframwaith ar gyfer buddsoddi rhanbarthol.

I'm grateful to the Counsel General for that response. I understand from Twitter that the Secretary of State has announced today that there will be something like £4.8 billion of funding available, but he doesn't say whether that's for Wales; he implies it's for Wales, but doesn't say whether it is for Wales or the UK, and he doesn't give a timescale for that expenditure.

People in Blaenau Gwent, Minister, are really, really worried that we're going to lose access to this funding. We were promised, given a real promise by the UK Conservative Government, that Brexit would not mean any loss of funding—no loss in investment, no loss in investment in infrastructure, in people, in communities. European funding has been a godsend to communities like Blaenau Gwent, where it's helped support work, when the steelworks closed in Ebbw Vale, to create a renaissance, if you like, on that site; investment in the 465 dualling project; the investment in apprenticeships; the investment in people and education right throughout the borough. 

Minister, I'm concerned that we're going to lose access to this. I'm concerned that we will see projects cherry-picked to meet the ambitions of the Conservative Party rather than the needs of Wales. What is the Welsh Government going to do to stand up for Wales rather than allow the Tories to get away with cheerleading for London?

Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol am yr ymateb hwnnw. Rwy'n deall trwy Twitter fod yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol wedi cyhoeddi heddiw y bydd rhywbeth tebyg i £4.8 biliwn o gyllid ar gael, ond nid yw'n dweud a yw hynny ar gyfer Cymru; mae'n awgrymu ei fod ar gyfer Cymru, ond nid yw'n dweud a yw ar gyfer Cymru neu'r DU, ac nid yw'n rhoi amserlen ar gyfer y gwariant hwnnw.

Weinidog, mae pobl ym Mlaenau Gwent yn poeni'n fawr y byddwn yn colli mynediad at y cyllid hwn. Addawyd inni, cawsom addewid go iawn gan Lywodraeth Geidwadol y DU, na fyddai Brexit yn golygu colli unrhyw gyllid—na fyddem yn colli unrhyw fuddsoddiad, na fyddem yn colli buddsoddiad mewn seilwaith, mewn pobl, mewn cymunedau. Mae cyllid Ewropeaidd wedi bod yn achubiaeth i gymunedau fel Blaenau Gwent, lle mae wedi helpu i gefnogi gwaith, pan gaeodd y gwaith dur yng Nglynebwy, ac i greu dadeni, os hoffwch, ar y safle hwnnw; buddsoddiad ym mhrosiect deuoli'r A465; buddsoddiad mewn prentisiaethau; buddsoddiad mewn pobl ac addysg ledled y fwrdeistref.

Weinidog, rwy'n pryderu ein bod yn mynd i golli mynediad at hyn. Rwy'n pryderu y byddwn yn gweld prosiectau'n cael eu dewis a'u dethol er mwyn bodloni uchelgeisiau'r Blaid Geidwadol yn hytrach nag anghenion Cymru. Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn mynd i'w wneud i sefyll dros Gymru yn hytrach na chaniatáu i'r Torïaid gael rhwydd hynt i ganu clodydd Llundain?

Well, the Member is right. The UK Government seems to be taking a deliberate approach to undermine the kind of planned, strategic, co-developed approach to regional development that we have favoured here in Wales in favour, effectively, of political discretion. And we've seen the impact of that in the towns fund in England, which has been severely criticised for a range of shortcomings by the Public Accounts Committee in Parliament, whether it's about lack of transparency or political bias or the lack of capacity for delivery. All of these challenges fall at the door of the UK Government in terms of its approach to the shared prosperity fund, and, I dare say, what it has called the levelling up fund as well, in due course. 

The proposals, in the way that the Member's question implies, have not been developed with Welsh stakeholders, not reflecting the interests of Welsh businesses and Welsh communities, either on a Wales-wide basis or a regional basis. They lack transparency. They lack the capability of being integrated with other sources of funding, and I hope very much that the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, the UK Government department responsible for the terrible experience of managing the towns fund, will not replicate the arrangements in relation to these funds. 

At the end of the day, the reason we call for these to be dealt with in accordance with the devolution settlement isn't simply a constitutional argument; it is because it leads to better outcomes, fairer to Wales, and better reflecting the priorities of Welsh businesses, Welsh communities and Welsh people. 

Wel, mae'r Aelod yn iawn. Mae'n ymddangos bod Llywodraeth y DU yn mynd ati'n fwriadol i danseilio'r math o ddull cynlluniedig, strategol, wedi'i gyd-ddatblygu o weithredu datblygu rhanbarthol a ffafriwyd gennym yma yng Nghymru o blaid disgresiwn gwleidyddol i bob pwrpas. Ac rydym wedi gweld effaith hynny yng nghronfa'r trefi yn Lloegr, sydd wedi cael ei beirniadu'n llym am amrywiaeth o ddiffygion gan y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus yn y Senedd, boed yn ddiffyg tryloywder neu ragfarn wleidyddol neu ddiffyg gallu i gyflawni. Llywodraeth y DU sy'n gyfrifol am yr holl heriau hyn yn sgil ei dull o weithredu'r gronfa ffyniant gyffredin, a, mentraf ddweud, yr hyn y mae wedi'i galw'n gronfa codi'r gwastad hefyd, maes o law.

Nid yw'r cynigion, yn y ffordd y mae cwestiwn yr Aelod yn awgrymu, wedi'u datblygu gyda rhanddeiliaid o Gymru, nac yn adlewyrchu buddiannau busnesau Cymru a chymunedau Cymru, naill ai ledled Cymru neu ar sail ranbarthol. Maent yn brin o dryloywder. Nid oes modd eu hintegreiddio â ffynonellau cyllid eraill, ac rwy'n gobeithio'n fawr na fydd y Weinyddiaeth Tai, Cymunedau a Llywodraeth Leol, adran Llywodraeth y DU sy'n gyfrifol am y profiad ofnadwy o reoli'r gronfa drefi, yn dilyn yr un trefniadau gyda'r cronfeydd hyn.

Yn y pen draw, nid dadl gyfansoddiadol syml yw'r rheswm pam ein bod yn galw am ymdrin â'r rhain yn unol â'r setliad datganoli, ond yn hytrach, am fod hynny'n arwain at ganlyniadau gwell, tecach i Gymru, ac yn adlewyrchu blaenoriaethau busnesau Cymru, cymunedau Cymru a phobl Cymru yn well.

Thank you for that response. There is growing concern about the attitude being shown by the Tory UK Government Minister on the issue of the £4.8 billion to drive regeneration across the UK that will be administered by Whitehall. Minister, will the Welsh Labour Government continue to forcefully stand up for Welsh devolution, the importance of the democratic body that is Senedd Cymru, Welsh Parliament, and that we as directly elected politicians in Wales must have oversight of how moneys earmarked for Wales are spent to benefit the Welsh populace? The global pandemic has vividly demonstrated the dangerous consequences of endemic poverty that exists across the UK—endemic poverty that is the result of savage, ideological Conservative Party policies since Thatcherism devastated communities across Wales after 1979. Minister, what are the dangers you perceive for Wales in the path that the UK Tory Government is taking for Wales?

Diolch ichi am yr ymateb hwnnw. Mae pryder cynyddol ynglŷn ag agwedd Gweinidog Torïaidd Llywodraeth y DU tuag at fater y £4.8 biliwn i sbarduno adfywiad ledled y DU a weinyddir gan Whitehall. Weinidog, a wnaiff Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru barhau i sefyll yn rymus dros ddatganoli yng Nghymru, pwysigrwydd Senedd Cymru fel corff democrataidd, ac mai ni fel gwleidyddion a etholwyd yn uniongyrchol yng Nghymru a ddylai oruchwylio sut y caiff arian a glustnodwyd ar gyfer Cymru ei wario er budd pobl Cymru? Mae'r pandemig byd-eang wedi dangos yn glir beth yw canlyniadau peryglus y tlodi endemig sy'n bodoli ledled y DU—tlodi endemig sy'n ganlyniad i bolisïau creulon, ideolegol y Blaid Geidwadol ers i Thatcheriaeth ddinistrio cymunedau ledled Cymru ar ôl 1979. Weinidog, beth yw'r peryglon a welwch i Gymru ar y llwybr y mae Llywodraeth Dorïaidd y DU yn ei ddilyn ar gyfer Cymru?

14:40

May I thank Rhianon Passmore for that question? She will recall, of course, as I do, that, when the spending review happened in November, a Barnett consequential was promised to Wales in relation to the levelling-up fund, so that it could be administered in the way that she describes, in accordance with the democratic accountability of the Welsh Government to this Senedd. That is not what has happened, and, in the way that she suggests, this is entirely in defiance of the constitutional arrangements of the devolution settlement, but this has a practical consequence in the lives of people in Wales. 

The Welsh Government has worked very collaboratively with the third sector, private sector, businesses, universities, local government and others right across Wales to develop an approach that works for Wales, and that, we think, is the better way forward, not a centralised discretionary fund. The sorts of priorities that people right across Wales have demonstrated they wish to see are support for competitive business, addressing economic inequalities, addressing the transition to a zero-carbon economy, and healthier, fairer and more sustainable communities. That is the kind of programme, devolved to the regions in Wales, that we think is in the best interests of Wales, and we call on the UK Government to respect that co-working across Wales and make sure funds are available through that framework. 

A gaf fi ddiolch i Rhianon Passmore am y cwestiwn hwnnw? Fe fydd yn cofio, wrth gwrs, fel finnau, pan ddigwyddodd yr adolygiad o wariant ym mis Tachwedd, fod swm canlyniadol Barnett wedi'i addo i Gymru mewn perthynas â'r gronfa codi'r gwastad, fel y gellid ei gweinyddu yn y ffordd y mae hi'n ei disgrifio, yn unol ag atebolrwydd democrataidd Llywodraeth Cymru i'r Senedd hon. Nid dyna sydd wedi digwydd, ac yn y ffordd y mae hi'n awgrymu, mae hyn yn gwbl groes i drefniadau cyfansoddiadol y setliad datganoli, ond mae i hyn ganlyniad ymarferol ym mywydau pobl yng Nghymru.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cydweithio'n dda iawn â'r trydydd sector, y sector preifat, busnesau, prifysgolion, llywodraeth leol ac eraill ledled Cymru i ddatblygu dull sy'n gweithio i Gymru, ac yn ein barn ni, dyna'r ffordd orau ymlaen, nid cronfa ddewisol ganolog. Y mathau o flaenoriaethau y mae pobl ledled Cymru wedi dangos eu bod am eu gweld yw cymorth i fusnesau cystadleuol, mynd i'r afael ag anghydraddoldebau economaidd, mynd i'r afael â'r newid i economi ddi-garbon, a chymunedau iachach, tecach a mwy cynaliadwy. Dyna'r math o raglen, wedi'i datganoli i'r rhanbarthau yng Nghymru, y credwn ei bod er lles gorau Cymru, a galwn ar Lywodraeth y DU i barchu'r cydweithio hwnnw ledled Cymru a sicrhau bod arian ar gael drwy'r fframwaith hwnnw.

[Inaudible.]—Treasury funding for the UK shared prosperity fund initially announced was only for pilot programmes, and it was made clear from the outset that ramped up funding would follow. As the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales said in the House of Commons last month: 

'We have already made it very clear and demonstrated that the amount of money that is going to be spent in Wales when the SPF comes in will be identical to or higher than the amount of money that was spent in Wales that came from the European Union.'

He also stated in the Commons, on the record, that the UK Government

'will continue to engage with the Welsh Government as we develop the fund's investment framework for publication.'

What stage, therefore, has its engagement actually now reached? And given the news that the shared prosperity fund will also work directly with Welsh councils, which are understood to have welcomed this, what engagement are you having with them about this?

[Anghlywadwy.]—ar gyfer rhaglenni peilot yn unig y rhoddwyd cyllid y Trysorlys a gyhoeddwyd yn wreiddiol ar gyfer cronfa ffyniant gyffredin y DU, a nodwyd yn glir o'r cychwyn cyntaf y byddai mwy o gyllid i ddilyn. Fel y dywedodd Is-ysgrifennydd Gwladol Seneddol Cymru yn Nhŷ'r Cyffredin fis diwethaf:

Rydym eisoes wedi'i gwneud yn glir iawn ac wedi dangos y bydd y swm o arian a gaiff ei wario yng Nghymru pan ddaw'r gronfa ffyniant gyffredin i fodolaeth yn union yr un fath â'r swm o arian a gâi ei wario yng Nghymru o'r Undeb Ewropeaidd, neu fwy na hynny.

Mae wedi'i gofnodi'n dweud yn Nhŷ'r Cyffredin hefyd y bydd Llywodraeth y DU

yn parhau i ymgysylltu â Llywodraeth Cymru wrth i ni ddatblygu fframwaith buddsoddi'r gronfa ar gyfer ei gyhoeddi.

Pa gam, felly, y mae ei hymgysylltiad wedi'i gyrraedd erbyn hyn? Ac o ystyried y newyddion y bydd y gronfa ffyniant gyffredin hefyd yn gweithio'n uniongyrchol gyda chynghorau Cymru, y deellir eu bod wedi croesawu hyn, pa ymgysylltiad sydd rhyngoch a hwy ynglŷn â hyn?

I thank the Member for giving me another opportunity to describe the shortcomings of the fund, but he describes a continuation of engagement as though there had been material engagement. The whole point of this process is that there has been none. And when you ask—. When the Member asks me what we will do with Welsh local government, we will continue the collaborative partnership working that has led to the design of the framework, which has not been characterised in the approach of the UK Government. And I am bound to say to him that he seems remarkably relaxed about Wales losing an entire year's worth of funding from the shared prosperity fund, and if he thinks that is an acceptable outcome to this process, I fundamentally disagree with him, and his assurance and his reliance on unspecific blandishments about future courses of action I do not think reflect the interests of people in Wales. 

Diolch i'r Aelod am roi cyfle arall imi ddisgrifio diffygion y gronfa, ond mae'n disgrifio parhad ymgysylltiad fel pe bai ymgysylltu o sylwedd wedi bod. Holl bwynt y broses hon yw na fu unrhyw ymgysylltiad o'r fath. A phan ofynnwch—. Pan fo'r Aelod yn gofyn imi beth a wnawn gyda llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru, byddwn yn parhau â'r gwaith partneriaeth cydweithredol sydd wedi arwain at gynllunio'r fframwaith, rhywbeth nad yw'n nodwedd o ymagwedd Llywodraeth y DU. Ac mae'n rhaid imi ddweud wrtho ei fod i'w weld yn hynod o ddigyffro ynglŷn â Chymru'n colli gwerth blwyddyn gyfan o gyllid o'r gronfa ffyniant gyffredin, ac os yw'n credu bod hynny'n ganlyniad derbyniol i'r broses hon, rwy'n anghytuno'n sylfaenol ag ef, ac nid wyf yn credu bod ei sicrwydd a'i ddibyniaeth ar weniaith amhenodol ynglŷn â chamau gweithredu yn y dyfodol yn adlewyrchu buddiannau pobl yng Nghymru.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Janet Finch-Saunders.  

Questions now from the party spokespeople. Janet Finch-Saunders. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Counsel General, I'm sure you'd agree with me that we do need to turbo charge post-Brexit economic growth in Wales. I'm aware that the UK Government is working collaboratively with devolved administrations to establish at least one free port in each nation of the UK. Here, in north Wales, of course, we are fortunate to have Virginia Crosbie, Welsh Conservative MP for Ynys Môn, heading up the Anglesey Freeport Bidding Consortium, alongside M-SParc, Bangor University, Stena Line, Anglesey County Council and the North Wales Economic Ambition Board. As the only bid in Wales to include an university, the free port could attract major new employers, bringing permanent employment to boost the supply chain across the whole region. It is clear, from your 'End of Transition Action Plan 2020', however, that the Welsh Government has been working with ports and the relevant local authorities to consider the needs of individual ports. So, would you put on record that you fully support Holyhead as the lead candidate to be a free port in Wales as a means of posting the port post Brexit? 

Diolch, Lywydd. Gwnsler Cyffredinol, rwy'n siŵr y byddech yn cytuno â mi fod angen i ni roi hwb i dwf economaidd ôl-Brexit yng Nghymru. Rwy'n ymwybodol fod Llywodraeth y DU yn cydweithio â'r gweinyddiaethau datganoledig i sefydlu o leiaf un porthladd rhydd ym mhob gwlad yn y DU. Yma, yng ngogledd Cymru wrth gwrs, rydym yn ffodus o gael Virginia Crosbie, AS ar ran y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig dros Ynys Môn, yn arwain Consortiwm Cais Porthladd Rhydd Ynys Môn, ochr yn ochr ag M-SParc, Prifysgol Bangor, Stena Line, Cyngor Sir Ynys Môn a Bwrdd Uchelgais Economaidd Gogledd Cymru. Fel yr unig gais yng Nghymru i gynnwys prifysgol, gallai'r porthladd rhydd ddenu cyflogwyr newydd mawr, gan ddod â chyflogaeth barhaol i hybu'r gadwyn gyflenwi ar draws y rhanbarth cyfan. Mae'n amlwg, o'ch 'Cynllun Gweithredu Diwedd y Cyfnod Pontio 2020', fodd bynnag, fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn gweithio gyda phorthladdoedd a'r awdurdodau lleol perthnasol i ystyried anghenion porthladdoedd unigol. Felly, a fyddech yn cofnodi eich bod yn llwyr gefnogi Caergybi fel y prif ymgeisydd i fod yn borthladd rhydd yng Nghymru fel ffordd o ddefnyddio'r porthladd ar ôl Brexit?

Well, I'm grateful to Janet Finch-Saunders for identifying the needs of ports, and the economies near to ports, as being in need of particular support as a consequence of leaving the European Union. That is certainly the case, and our approach as a Government very much is the one that she described in her question, which is to work with ports, port authorities, hauliers and businesses and the Governments, of course, to advance their interests. I wonder whether she would agree with me that if the UK Government is seeking to support the development of a free port in Wales, in providing funding for that, that ought not to be based on a Barnett consequential, which would deliver around 5 per cent of the overall cost, but on the basis of a much more significant investment of around 10 per cent, which is about one port out of the UK Government's aim of 10 across the UK. So, I would welcome her confirmation to me that she regards a Barnett consequential approach as inadequate to take forward the kind of proposal that she supports.

Wel, rwy'n ddiolchgar i Janet Finch-Saunders am nodi anghenion porthladdoedd, a'r economïau sy'n agos at borthladdoedd, fel rhai sydd angen cymorth penodol o ganlyniad i adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Mae hynny'n sicr yn wir, ac yn sicr ddigon, ein dull gweithredu fel Llywodraeth yw'r un a ddisgrifiodd yn ei chwestiwn, sef gweithio gyda phorthladdoedd, awdurdodau porthladdoedd, cludwyr a busnesau a'r Llywodraethau, wrth gwrs, i hyrwyddo eu buddiannau. Os yw Llywodraeth y DU yn ceisio cefnogi datblygiad porthladd rhydd yng Nghymru, wrth ddarparu cyllid ar gyfer hynny, tybed a yw'n cytuno na ddylai hynny fod yn seiliedig ar swm canlyniadol Barnett, a fyddai'n sicrhau tua 5 y cant o gyfanswm y gost, ond ar sail buddsoddiad llawer mwy sylweddol o tua 10 y cant, sef tua un porthladd allan o nod Llywodraeth y DU o 10 ledled y DU. Felly, byddwn yn falch pe bai'n cadarnhau ei bod o'r farn bod gweithredu ar sail swm canlyniadol Barnett yn annigonol ar gyfer datblygu'r math o gynnig y mae'n ei gefnogi.

14:45

Counsel General, thank you, but I have to disagree with you at this point because I was actually quite happy to read today that £8 million will be coming forward to Wales to help with our free-port initiative. Now, Ynys Môn would be the ideal place because it has one of the lowest GVAs in Wales—£1,050 compared with £11,769 for Cardiff. And too often here, as a north Wales elected Member, I am fed up with people worried about the north-south divide.

Now, staying with ports, you may recall that you stated the following in your end of transition action plan:

'We are working to ensure we minimise any possible disruption to the transport network, the ports and local communities in Wales.'

Now, we're both aware of the challenges facing our shellfish sector and the £23 million the UK Government has already made available to back our seafood exporters. But we believe that you could be doing more to minimise this disruption. Some Welsh fishers are spending £15,000 on a refrigerated van to transport live scallops all the way to Plymouth. The Welsh Government could stop all of that by taking one decisive step: introduce financial incentives to develop purification plants here in north Wales. So, will you look to work with Welsh fishers who are looking for that support and work with the UK Government to support the shellfish sector post Brexit by quickly developing purification plants near our Welsh ports?

Gwnsler Cyffredinol, diolch, ond rhaid imi anghytuno â chi ar y pwynt hwn oherwydd roeddwn yn hapus i ddarllen heddiw mewn gwirionedd y bydd £8 miliwn yn dod i Gymru i helpu gyda'n menter porthladd rhydd. Nawr, Ynys Môn fyddai'r lle delfrydol gan fod ganddi un o'r gwerthoedd ychwanegol gros isaf yng Nghymru—£1,050 o'i gymharu ag £11,769 yng Nghaerdydd. Ac yn rhy aml yma, fel Aelod etholedig yng ngogledd Cymru, rwyf wedi cael llond bol ar bobl sy'n poeni am y rhaniad rhwng y gogledd a'r de.

Nawr, gan aros gyda phorthladdoedd, efallai y cofiwch ichi ddatgan y canlynol yn eich cynllun gweithredu diwedd y cyfnod pontio:

'Rydym yn gweithio i sicrhau cyn lleied o amharu â phosibl ar y rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth, y porthladdoedd a’r cymunedau lleol yng Nghymru.'

Nawr, rydym ein dau'n ymwybodol o'r heriau sy'n wynebu ein sector pysgod cregyn a'r £23 miliwn y mae Llywodraeth y DU eisoes wedi'i ddarparu i gefnogi ein hallforwyr bwyd môr. Ond credwn y gallech fod yn gwneud mwy i leihau'r tarfu hwn. Mae rhai pysgotwyr o Gymry yn gwario £15,000 ar fan oergell i gludo cregyn bylchog byw yr holl ffordd i Plymouth. Gallai Llywodraeth Cymru atal hynny i gyd drwy gymryd un cam pendant: cyflwyno cymhellion ariannol i ddatblygu gweithfeydd puro yma yng ngogledd Cymru. Felly, a wnewch chi weithio gyda physgotwyr Cymru sy'n chwilio am y gefnogaeth honno a gweithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU i gefnogi'r sector pysgod cregyn ar ôl Brexit drwy fynd ati'n gyflym i ddatblygu gweithfeydd puro ger ein porthladdoedd yng Nghymru?

Well, I'm pleased that she stayed on the theme of ports. I didn't quite get from her rationale why she thought it would be appropriate that Welsh ports ought to be funded at a lower rate than ports in other parts of the UK, so I will ask her, please, if she could help me with that when she asks her next question. I do think it's an important part of standing up for the Welsh ports.

On the question of the shellfish exports, as she will know from our previous exchanges in relation to this, the Welsh Government has always stood up for the interests of fishers and has advocated, therefore, a very different approach than the one that, unfortunately, the UK Government chose to take in its negotiations. And I'm afraid the challenges that face the sector in Wales, which are very significant, are ones that are directly referable to the choices made by the UK Government in those negotiations. And I don't think it serves anyone really to seek to obfuscate that reality. What we will do as a Government is to continue our support for the sector in any way that we can, but the responsibility for changing the landscape here in a way that can genuinely support the shellfish and fisheries sector at large lies at the door of the UK Government. We will continue to be co-operative and work in a collegiate way with them in the interest of all sectors in Wales that have been damaged by the kind of negotiation that the UK Government has pursued, but, ultimately, some of these things lie simply in the hands of the UK Government and they need to act in response.

Wel, rwy'n falch ei bod wedi aros gyda thema porthladdoedd. Ni ddeallais o'i rhesymeg pam ei bod yn credu y byddai'n briodol i borthladdoedd Cymru gael eu hariannu ar gyfradd is na phorthladdoedd mewn rhannau eraill o'r DU, felly rwyf am ofyn iddi fy helpu gyda hynny pan fydd yn gofyn ei chwestiwn nesaf. Rwy'n credu ei fod yn rhan bwysig o sefyll dros borthladdoedd Cymru.

O ran allforion pysgod cregyn, fel y gŵyr o'n trafodaethau blaenorol mewn perthynas â hyn, mae Llywodraeth Cymru bob amser wedi sefyll dros fuddiannau pysgotwyr ac felly wedi argymell dull gwahanol iawn o weithredu i'r un y dewisodd Llywodraeth y DU ei fabwysiadu yn ei negodiadau, yn anffodus. Ac rwy'n ofni bod yr heriau sylweddol iawn sy'n wynebu'r sector yng Nghymru yn rhai y gellir eu olrhain yn uniongyrchol i'r dewisiadau a wnaed gan Lywodraeth y DU yn y negodiadau hynny. Ac nid wyf yn credu bod ceisio celu'r realiti hwnnw'n helpu neb mewn gwirionedd. Yr hyn y byddwn yn ei wneud fel Llywodraeth yw parhau â'n cefnogaeth i'r sector mewn unrhyw ffordd y gallwn, ond cyfrifoldeb Llywodraeth y DU yw newid y dirwedd yma mewn ffordd a all gefnogi'r sector pysgod cregyn a physgodfeydd yn gyffredinol. Byddwn yn parhau i fod yn gydweithredol a gweithio ar y cyd â hwy er budd pob sector yng Nghymru sydd wedi'u difrodi gan y math o negodi a wnaed gan Lywodraeth y DU, ond yn y pen draw, mae rhai o'r pethau hyn yn nwylo Llywodraeth y DU ac mae angen iddynt weithredu mewn ymateb i hynny.

Llywydd, I'm sorry, but I have to dismiss the Counsel General again. Eight million pounds coming to Wales to help us with our free ports is a good news story, and, you know, it does get tiring to keep hearing the whining and the moaning and the constant groaning about when money is available to come here to Wales. Why don't you ever say 'thank you' to the UK Government?

Now, the development of purification plants in Wales really would be a good news story. In fact, I would hope that the UK Government would co-operate with you, as I'm sure my proposal would fit well with the aim of modernising the fishing industry. So, whilst I would be pleased to hear a commitment from you to work for once with the UK Government on this, you seem to have an allergy to UK Government investment in Wales. Last Thursday, you joined with the Minister for finance to complain that the UK Government intends to directly allocate funding for regional and local development in Wales via a levelling-up fund. You accuse UK Government of, and I quote,

'going out of its way to take money away from Wales'.

Money will be going directly to schemes here in Wales, so please stop these fake news stories. Stop trying to create a needless constitutional battle just because you cannot tolerate a UK Conservative Government that is building on its strong record of delivering for Wales, including protecting nearly 400,000 jobs, supporting more than 100,000 self-employed people and over 50,000 businesses since the start of the pandemic. Why don't you show some of that kindness shown earlier with other Ministers and actually say for once, 'Thank you, diolch, UK Government'? Diolch, Llywydd. 

Lywydd, mae'n ddrwg gennyf, ond mae'n rhaid i mi wrthod yr hyn a ddywed y Cwnsler Cyffredinol eto. Mae'r £8 miliwn sy'n dod i Gymru i'n helpu gyda'n porthladdoedd rhydd yn newyddion da, ac mae'n flinderus gorfod parhau i glywed y cwyno a'r griddfan cyson ynghylch pryd y mae arian ar gael i ddod yma i Gymru. Pam na wnewch chi ddweud 'diolch' wrth Lywodraeth y DU?

Nawr, byddai datblygu gweithfeydd puro yng Nghymru yn newyddion da. Yn wir, byddwn yn gobeithio y byddai Llywodraeth y DU yn cydweithredu â chi, gan fy mod yn siŵr y byddai fy nghynnig yn cyd-fynd yn dda â'r nod o foderneiddio'r diwydiant pysgota. Felly, er y byddwn yn falch o glywed ymrwymiad gennych i weithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU ar hyn am unwaith, mae'n ymddangos bod gennych alergedd at fuddsoddiad Llywodraeth y DU yng Nghymru. Ddydd Iau diwethaf, gwnaethoch ymuno â'r Gweinidog Cyllid i gwyno bod Llywodraeth y DU yn bwriadu dyrannu cyllid yn uniongyrchol ar gyfer datblygu rhanbarthol a lleol yng Nghymru drwy gronfa codi'r gwastad. Rydych yn cyhuddo Llywodraeth y DU, ac rwy'n dyfynnu, o

'[f]ynd ati'n fwriadol i gymryd arian oddi wrth Gymru'.

Bydd arian yn mynd yn uniongyrchol i gynlluniau yma yng Nghymru, felly rhowch y gorau i'r straeon newyddion ffug hyn. Rhowch y gorau i geisio creu brwydr gyfansoddiadol ddi-angen am na allwch oddef Llywodraeth Geidwadol y DU sy'n adeiladu ar ei hanes cadarn o gyflawni dros Gymru, gan gynnwys diogelu bron i 400,000 o swyddi, cefnogi mwy na 100,000 o bobl hunangyflogedig a thros 50,000 o fusnesau ers dechrau'r pandemig. Pam na wnewch chi ddangos rhywfaint o'r caredigrwydd a ddangoswyd yn gynharach gyda Gweinidogion eraill a dweud am unwaith, 'Diolch, Lywodraeth y DU'? Diolch, Lywydd.

14:50

I'm not sure I recognise the worldview of the Member, where Welsh people should be grateful for having investment made out of their own taxes in Wales, but it is, I suppose, a worldview. My preferred approach is to make sure that two things happen. Firstly, in relation to areas that are not devolved, that the UK Government stops short-changing Wales, so whether that's in terms of energy infrastructure or digital infrastructure or rail infrastructure, it would be good if the UK Government actually invested on a comparable basis in Wales. In relation to matters that are devolved, I'm afraid, as I mentioned earlier, these sums of money are small sums of money, and they are not being deployed in a way that reflects the interests of Wales. I'm not making a constitutional point, as it happens; I'm making a point about effective investment in the Welsh economy, and that is the work that we've been doing as a Welsh Government with Welsh businesses, and I'm afraid none of the work that the UK Government has done has benefited from that. I welcome investment in Wales. I would welcome considerably more investment from the UK Government in Wales, deployed on reserved areas more effectively by them and on devolved areas by the Welsh Government.

Nid wyf yn siŵr fy mod yn cydnabod bydolwg yr Aelod, lle dylai pobl Cymru fod yn ddiolchgar am gael buddsoddiad o'u trethi eu hunain yng Nghymru, ond mae'n debyg ei bod hi'n fydolwg. Mae'n well gennyf fi sicrhau bod dau beth yn digwydd. Yn gyntaf, ar feysydd nad ydynt wedi'u datganoli, fod Llywodraeth y DU yn rhoi'r gorau i wneud cam â Chymru, felly boed yn seilwaith ynni neu seilwaith digidol neu seilwaith rheilffyrdd, byddai'n dda pe bai Llywodraeth y DU yn buddsoddi ar sail gymaradwy yng Nghymru. Ar faterion sydd wedi'u datganoli, fel y soniais yn gynharach, mae arnaf ofn mai symiau bach o arian yw'r rhain, ac nid ydynt yn cael eu defnyddio mewn ffordd sy'n adlewyrchu buddiannau Cymru. Nid gwneud pwynt cyfansoddiadol rwyf i, fel mae'n digwydd; rwy'n gwneud pwynt am fuddsoddi effeithiol yn economi Cymru, a dyna'r gwaith rydym wedi bod yn ei wneud fel Llywodraeth Cymru gyda busnesau Cymru, ac mae arnaf ofn nad oes dim o'r gwaith y mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi'i wneud wedi elwa o hynny. Rwy'n croesawu buddsoddiad yng Nghymru. Byddwn yn croesawu llawer mwy o fuddsoddiad gan Lywodraeth y DU yng Nghymru, i'w ddefnyddio ar feysydd a gadwyd yn ôl yn fwy effeithiol ganddynt ac ar feysydd datganoledig gan Lywodraeth Cymru.

Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Dai Lloyd.

The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Dai Lloyd.

Diolch, Llywydd. Can I say what a delight it is always to follow Janet Finch-Saunders in spokespersons' questions? I was going to start with levelling-up as well, Minister, and perhaps a different view. Last July, I asked you what you were doing to fight back at the UK Government's power-grabbing UK internal market Bill, you'll recall. In December, I asked what you were doing to ensure Wales's interests were represented in the Brexit negotiations. You will recall that as well. Just last month, I asked what you doing to ensure Wales did not not lose out as part of the UK shared prosperity fund proposals, and we've heard some more about that today. Another week gone and here we are again discussing the latest attempt by the Tories in Westminster to undermine Welsh democracy. So, the levelling-up fund was announced, as you know, by Westminster last year, a fund said to be open to all areas in England. Under previous plans, Wales would get our share of the £800 million through the Barnett formula and we would spend it according to our priorities here. The Westminster Treasury has now announced they will be deciding how that same £800 million is spent in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland and there is no ring-fence for Welsh funding. I'm just putting that on the record, Minister, to help you out here. Does the Minister agree with me, rather than levelling up, these latest proposals are instead spreading resources thinner, taking our money away from where it's most needed, and that, for Wales, levelling up means losing out?

Diolch, Lywydd. A gaf fi ddweud pa mor bleserus bob amser yw dilyn Janet Finch-Saunders yng nghwestiynau'r llefarwyr? Roeddwn i'n mynd i ddechrau gyda chodi'r gwastad hefyd, Weinidog, a barn wahanol efallai. Fis Gorffennaf diwethaf, fe gofiwch, gofynnais i chi beth roeddech chi'n ei wneud i ymladd yn erbyn Bil marchnad fewnol Llywodraeth y DU, Bil sy'n cipio pŵer. Ym mis Rhagfyr, gofynnais beth roeddech chi'n ei wneud i sicrhau bod buddiannau Cymru'n cael eu cynrychioli yn y negodiadau Brexit. Fe fyddwch yn cofio hynny hefyd. Fis diwethaf, gofynnais beth rydych yn ei wneud i sicrhau nad oedd Cymru ar ei cholled fel rhan o gynigion cronfa ffyniant gyffredin y DU, ac rydym wedi clywed mwy am hynny heddiw. Aeth wythnos arall heibio a dyma ni eto'n trafod ymgais ddiweddaraf y Torïaid yn San Steffan i danseilio democratiaeth Cymru. Felly, fel y gwyddoch, cyhoeddwyd y gronfa codi'r gwastad gan San Steffan y llynedd, cronfa y dywedir ei bod yn agored i bob ardal yn Lloegr. O dan gynlluniau blaenorol, byddai Cymru'n cael ein cyfran o'r £800 miliwn drwy fformiwla Barnett a byddem yn ei wario'n unol â'n blaenoriaethau yma. Mae Trysorlys San Steffan bellach wedi cyhoeddi y byddant yn penderfynu sut y caiff yr un £800 miliwn ei wario yng Nghymru, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon ac ni chaiff cyllid i Gymru ei neilltuo. Rwy'n cofnodi hynny, Weinidog, i'ch helpu yma. A yw'r Gweinidog yn cytuno â mi, yn hytrach na chodi'r gwastad, fod y cynigion diweddaraf hyn yn gwasgaru adnoddau'n deneuach, gan fynd â'n harian o lle mae ei angen fwyaf, a bod codi'r gwastad, i Gymru, yn golygu bod ar ein colled?

I do agree with Dai Lloyd that, in terms of both the quantum of the funding and the fact that it's not ring-fenced to Wales, the notion this is a levelling-up fund is an inaccurate description. There is a better way of doing this. There are substantial funds that are available, clearly, but there is a way of doing it that does in fact reflect the needs of businesses and communities in Wales and, as I said earlier in answer to earlier questions, reflect the approach that we have sought to take as a Government of working with stakeholders right across Wales to develop a framework for investment into the future, rather than have something that is discretionary in that sense.

I would say to him I think the way he started his question was right, if I may say, to acknowledge that this is a Conservative Government in Westminster that is pursuing this approach. I think it is possible to make this work on a UK-wide basis with political will in a way that much better reflects the needs of Wales, and that is the vision that we as a Welsh Labour Party and a Welsh Labour-led Government have for regional funding into the future. 

Rwy'n cytuno â Dai Lloyd, o ran maint y cyllid a'r ffaith nad yw wedi'i neilltuo i Gymru, fod y syniad mai cronfa codi'r gwastad yw hon yn ddisgrifiad anghywir. Mae ffordd well o wneud hyn. Mae arian sylweddol ar gael yn amlwg, ond mae yna ffordd o'i wneud sy'n adlewyrchu anghenion busnesau a chymunedau yng Nghymru mewn gwirionedd ac fel y dywedais yn gynharach wrth ateb cwestiynau cynharach, ffordd sy'n adlewyrchu'r dull rydym wedi ceisio'i ddilyn fel Llywodraeth o weithio gyda rhanddeiliaid ledled Cymru i ddatblygu fframwaith ar gyfer buddsoddi yn y dyfodol, yn hytrach na chael rhywbeth sy'n ddewisol yn yr ystyr honno.

Byddwn yn dweud wrtho fy mod yn credu bod y ffordd y dechreuodd ei gwestiwn yn iawn, os caf ddweud, i gydnabod mai Llywodraeth Geidwadol yn San Steffan yw hon sy'n mynd ar drywydd y dull hwn. Credaf ei bod yn bosibl gwneud i hyn weithio ar sail y DU gyfan gydag ewyllys wleidyddol mewn ffordd sy'n adlewyrchu anghenion Cymru'n well o lawer, a dyna'r weledigaeth sydd gennym ni fel Plaid Lafur Cymru a Llywodraeth a arweinir gan Lafur Cymru ar gyfer cyllid rhanbarthol yn y dyfodol.

14:55

Thank you for that, Minister, and, obviously, your statement in response, when it came out last week, as well as what you've said today, your response to this latest debacle, is rightly strongly worded and full of condemnation of the Conservative Government in Westminster. However, yet again, it's a bit short on practical steps on how the Welsh Government is now going to protect Wales's interests, because we're in a bit of a war zone here in terms of losing money and losing powers, and this is not the first example, as I intimated at the start of the first question. So, can I ask you, Minister, what practical steps are you taking to ensure that Wales isn't undermined and short-changed once again with this levelling-up fund?

Diolch ichi am hynny, Weinidog, ac yn amlwg, mae eich datganiad mewn ymateb, pan gafodd ei gyhoeddi yr wythnos diwethaf, yn ogystal â'r hyn rydych wedi'i ddweud heddiw, eich ymateb i'r llanast diweddaraf hwn, wedi'i eirio'n gryf ac yn condemnio'r Llywodraeth Geidwadol yn San Steffan. Ond unwaith eto, mae ychydig yn brin o nodi camau ymarferol ynglŷn â sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn mynd i ddiogelu buddiannau Cymru yn awr, oherwydd rydym yn wynebu brwydr yma braidd o ran colli arian a cholli pwerau, ac nid dyma'r enghraifft gyntaf, fel yr awgrymais ar ddechrau'r cwestiwn cyntaf. Felly, a gaf fi ofyn i chi, Weinidog, pa gamau ymarferol rydych yn eu cymryd i sicrhau nad yw Cymru'n cael ei thanseilio ac ar ei cholled unwaith eto gyda'r gronfa codi'r gwastad hon?

As I mentioned earlier, we have articulated a very different vision for how regional funding should work in Wales, and that is the case that we continue to make. We think that is a much more rational way of supporting the Welsh economy on a Wales-wide level but also the regions of Wales, and to devolve decision making in a very productive and more effective way. He will know, given the list of items he read out at the start of his first question, that we have taken every step that we can to stand up for Wales as a Government, including bringing legal proceedings in relation to the Act. While this item itself isn't capable of being challenged, the Act is currently under judicial review, or we're seeking judicial review in the courts. So, he will know that we take, as a Government, every step open to us to defend the rights of the Senedd and the rights of the people of Wales. I look forward to a day when we have a Government in Westminster that is genuinely interested in making sure that all parts of the UK flourish within a reformed union, and the sooner we have that with the election of a Labour Government in Westminster, the better for all of us.

Fel y soniais yn gynharach, rydym wedi mynegi gweledigaeth wahanol iawn ar gyfer sut y dylai cyllid rhanbarthol weithio yng Nghymru, ac mae honno'n ddadl rydym yn parhau i'w gwneud. Credwn fod honno'n ffordd lawer mwy rhesymegol o gefnogi economi Cymru ar lefel Cymru gyfan ond rhanbarthau Cymru hefyd, a datganoli'r broses o wneud penderfyniadau mewn ffordd gynhyrchiol a mwy effeithiol. Bydd yn gwybod, o ystyried y rhestr o eitemau a ddarllenodd ar ddechrau ei gwestiwn cyntaf, ein bod wedi cymryd pob cam a allwn i sefyll dros Gymru fel Llywodraeth, gan gynnwys dwyn achos cyfreithiol mewn perthynas â'r Ddeddf. Er nad oes modd herio'r eitem hon ynddi ei hun, mae'r Ddeddf yn destun adolygiad barnwrol ar hyn o bryd, neu rydym yn ceisio adolygiad barnwrol yn y llysoedd. Felly, fe fydd yn gwybod ein bod, fel Llywodraeth, yn rhoi pob cam sy'n agored inni ar waith er mwyn amddiffyn hawliau'r Senedd a hawliau pobl Cymru. Edrychaf ymlaen at ddiwrnod pan fydd gennym Lywodraeth yn San Steffan sydd â diddordeb go iawn mewn sicrhau bod pob rhan o'r DU yn ffynnu mewn undeb diwygiedig, a gorau po gyntaf y cawn hynny drwy ethol Llywodraeth Lafur yn San Steffan.

Just turning for my last question to Brexit and ports, we've heard a bit, but a slightly different slant. Obviously, Holyhead was, until December, and that's only two months ago, the second busiest roll-on, roll-off port in the United Kingdom after Dover. About 450,000 trucks rumbled through each year on their way to Dublin, with cargos of meat, agricultural produce, second-hand cars and items destined for the shelves of Irish supermarkets, all flowing through Holyhead. The UK's departure from the EU has changed all that, plainly. In just seven weeks, freight volumes have plunged by 50 per cent. The port's owner, Stena Line, is warning that the slump could be permanent, and we are seeing new sea routes. Obviously, the Minister will have studied the maps, like myself. We've got Dublin, Rosslare and Cork on one side, and new sea routes opening to Roscoff, Cherbourg and Dunkirk on the other, avoiding Wales altogether. So, can I ask, does the Minister further agree with me that this shows that the problems popping up at Holyhead and other Welsh ports show that Brexit is having a real detrimental effect on the Welsh economy and are not simply just teething problems that are just transient?

Os caf droi yn fy nghwestiwn olaf at Brexit a phorthladdoedd, rydym wedi clywed tipyn, ond gyda gogwydd ychydig yn wahanol. Yn amlwg, tan fis Rhagfyr, ac nid yw hynny ond deufis yn ôl, Caergybi oedd y porthladd fferi gyrru mewn ac allan prysuraf ond un yn y Deyrnas Unedig ar ôl Dover. Roedd tua 450,000 o lorïau'n gyrru drwodd bob blwyddyn ar eu ffordd i Ddulyn, gyda chargo cig, cynnyrch amaethyddol, ceir ail-law ac eitemau ar gyfer silffoedd archfarchnadoedd Iwerddon, i gyd yn llifo drwy Gaergybi. Mae ymadawiad y DU â'r UE wedi newid hynny i gyd, yn amlwg. Mewn cwta saith wythnos, mae cyfeintiau nwyddau wedi gostwng 50 y cant. Mae perchennog y porthladd, Stena Line, yn rhybuddio y gallai'r cwymp fod yn barhaol, ac rydym yn gweld llwybrau môr newydd yn agor. Yn amlwg, bydd y Gweinidog wedi astudio'r mapiau, fel finnau. Mae gennym Ddulyn, Rosslare a Cork ar y naill ochr, a llwybrau môr newydd yn agor i Roscoff, Cherbourg a Dunkirk ar yr ochr arall, gan osgoi Cymru'n gyfan gwbl. Felly, a gaf fi ofyn, a yw'r Gweinidog yn cytuno â mi ymhellach fod hyn yn dangos bod y problemau sy'n codi yng Nghaergybi a phorthladdoedd eraill Cymru'n dangos bod Brexit yn cael effaith wirioneddol andwyol ar economi Cymru ac nad problemau cychwynnol a dros dro yn unig mo'r rhain?

I absolutely agree that these are not to be dismissed as teething problems. They are issues to be taken seriously, and we are doing that as a Government because of the reasons the Member outlines in his question. We are very clear that the land bridge between Ireland and mainland Europe is strategically very important for us, and we are doing everything that we can to bring resolution to this. As the Member will know, in terms of what is reserved and devolved in this space, the particular issues that are causing the challenges are in fact reserved. But we have worked, and continue to work, with the UK Government, with the Irish Government and others to try to find resolution to that, working as well more broadly with the range of relevant stakeholders to develop a plan of concrete action to try and resolve some of that. I do want to be very clear that we regard this as being an important area for resolution, and the key message that we get from stakeholders is that it does, in fact, cost in some cases quite considerably more to travel on the direct routes between Ireland and Europe. So, there's an important opportunity for us there, it seems to us, to find a resolution to this so that we can restore the land bridge as the primary transit route in the way that we would all wish to see.

Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr na ddylid diystyru'r rhain fel problemau cychwynnol. Maent yn broblemau i'w hystyried o ddifrif, ac rydym yn gwneud hynny fel Llywodraeth oherwydd y rhesymau y mae'r Aelod yn eu hamlinellu yn ei gwestiwn. Rydym yn glir iawn fod y bont dir rhwng Iwerddon a thir mawr Ewrop yn bwysig iawn i ni yn strategol, ac rydym yn gwneud popeth yn ein gallu i ddatrys hyn. Fel y gŵyr yr Aelod, o ran yr hyn sydd wedi'i gadw'n ôl a'i ddatganoli yn y gofod hwn, mae'r materion penodol sy'n achosi'r heriau yn rhai a gadwyd yn ôl mewn gwirionedd. Ond rydym wedi gweithio, ac rydym yn parhau i weithio, gyda Llywodraeth y DU, gyda Llywodraeth Iwerddon ac eraill i geisio datrys hyn, gan weithio'n fwy eang hefyd gyda'r ystod o randdeiliaid perthnasol i ddatblygu cynllun gweithredu pendant i geisio datrys rhywfaint o hyn. Rwyf am fod yn glir iawn ein bod yn ystyried hwn yn faes pwysig i'w ddatrys, a'r neges allweddol a gawn gan randdeiliaid yw ei bod yn costio llawer mwy mewn rhai achosion i deithio ar y llwybrau uniongyrchol rhwng Iwerddon ac Ewrop. Felly, mae'n ymddangos i ni fod cyfle pwysig i ni yno i ddod o hyd i ateb i hyn fel y gallwn adfer y bont dir fel y prif lwybr tramwy yn y ffordd y byddai pawb ohonom yn dymuno ei gweld.

15:00
Busnesau Rhyngwladol
International Businesses

3. Pa asesiad y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i wneud o'r potensial i ddenu busnesau rhyngwladol i Gymru nawr bod y DU wedi gadael yr UE? OQ56357

3. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the potential to attract international businesses to Wales now the UK has left the EU? OQ56357

The trade and co-operation agreement has addressed some of the uncertainty that has deterred investment since the referendum in 2016. But Wales and the UK no longer offer barrier-free access to a single market of 450 million people, and that may well dampen, to some extent, inward investment from overseas.

Mae’r cytundeb masnach a chydweithredu wedi mynd i’r afael â rhywfaint o’r ansicrwydd sydd wedi atal buddsoddiad ers y refferendwm yn 2016. Ond nid yw Cymru a’r DU bellach yn cynnig mynediad di-rwystr at farchnad sengl o 450 miliwn o bobl, a gallai hynny amharu, i ryw raddau, ar fewnfuddsoddiad o dramor.

Thank you for that answer, Counsel General, but I'm not really surprised since you're a remainer. Since a deal with the EU has been implemented, you've said that there are problems with international trade because the UK Government has put sovereignty before well-being. The image of Wales you wanted to leave people with was of a country that would be difficult to do business in and with, and which couldn't even look after its own people's health because we're not in the EU. Yet here we are, the UK leading the world in vaccinating against COVID, second only to Israel, and with more than 1,000 EU businesses opening offices in the UK for the first time ever. Whilst you cherry-pick news to suggest that Amsterdam will somehow replace London as Europe's finance capital by only talking about share trading, actual businesspeople like the head of Barclays, Jes Staley, are saying that Brexit will be of benefit to the UK because of our ability to attract global capital. Even the remain-loving The i newspaper agrees with him.

Surely, you're aware that constantly claiming that we got a bad deal just because it's not the Brexit-in-name-only deal you wanted, and talking down Wales's future and potential because you wanted to stay in the EU is only going to put people off investing here. Wouldn't you agree that the best start to attracting international businesses to Wales, especially in light of the news that 1,000 finance firms are poised to open UK offices, often for the first time, is to change tack and start concentrating on the many benefits and opportunities that Brexit has brought us, and how that will benefit companies that invest here, rather than continuing to fight a referendum that's long been decided?

So, what efforts is the Welsh Government making to attract some of these 1,000 businesses to open offices in Wales, and how effective will that be when the UK Government keeps talking up the future of the rest of the UK, while your Government keeps talking it down in respect of Wales?

Diolch am eich ateb, Gwnsler Cyffredinol, ond nid wyf yn synnu, mewn gwirionedd, gan eich bod o blaid aros. Ers i gytundeb gyda'r UE gael ei roi ar waith, rydych wedi dweud bod problemau gyda masnach ryngwladol am fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi rhoi sofraniaeth o flaen llesiant. Y ddelwedd o Gymru roeddech am ei rhoi i bobl oedd gwlad a fyddai'n anodd cyflawni busnes ynddi a chyda hi, ac na allai hyd yn oed ofalu am iechyd ei phobl ei hun gan nad ydym yn yr UE. Serch hynny, dyma ni, y DU yn arwain y byd ar frechu yn erbyn COVID, yn ail i Israel yn unig, a chyda mwy na 1,000 o fusnesau’r UE yn agor swyddfeydd yn y DU am y tro cyntaf erioed. Er eich bod yn dethol newyddion i awgrymu y bydd Amsterdam rywsut yn disodli Llundain fel prifddinas cyllid Ewrop drwy siarad am fasnachu cyfranddaliadau yn unig, mae pobl fusnes go iawn fel pennaeth Barclays, Jes Staley, yn dweud y bydd Brexit o fudd i'r DU oherwydd ein gallu i ddenu cyfalaf byd-eang. Mae hyd yn oed papur newydd The i, a oedd yn gryf o blaid aros, yn cytuno ag ef.

Does bosibl nad ydych yn ymwybodol fod honni'n gyson ein bod wedi cael cytundeb gwael am nad oedd yn gytundeb Brexit-mewn-enw-yn-unig fel roeddech yn dymuno’i gael, a bychanu dyfodol a photensial Cymru am eich bod yn dymuno aros yn yr UE, yn gwneud unrhyw beth ond annog pobl i beidio â buddsoddi yma. Oni fyddech yn cytuno mai'r dechrau gorau wrth ddenu busnesau rhyngwladol i Gymru, yn enwedig yng ngoleuni'r newyddion fod 1,000 o gwmnïau cyllid ar fin agor swyddfeydd yn y DU, yn aml am y tro cyntaf, fyddai newid cyfeiriad a dechrau canolbwyntio ar y llu o fanteision a chyfleoedd y mae Brexit wedi eu rhoi i ni, a sut y bydd hynny o fudd i gwmnïau sy'n buddsoddi yma, yn hytrach na pharhau i ymladd refferendwm sydd wedi'i benderfynu ers amser maith?

Felly, pa ymdrechion y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu gwneud i ddenu rhai o'r 1,000 o fusnesau hyn i agor swyddfeydd yng Nghymru, a pha mor effeithiol fydd hynny pan fydd Llywodraeth y DU yn parhau i siarad yn gadarnhaol am ddyfodol gweddill y DU, tra bo’ch Llywodraeth chi'n parhau i fod yn negyddol mewn perthynas â Chymru?

I'll try and relate my response to some of the evidence, which I think is probably a helpful way of looking at this. The reality is that there was a significant downturn in inward investment following the 2016 referendum. I'm pleased to say that through the good efforts of an awful lot of people, last year saw an increase from that reduced level, so that is positive and we absolutely welcome that. But it's a positive from having a drop down as a consequence of that uncertainty, which as a Government we certainly don't welcome and neither did business at large in Wales.

Throughout the pandemic, in particular, we've undertaken a very significant engagement programme, both with our current inward investors to ensure that they have the support that they need, but also to identify other opportunities, in a way that has been very productive. The international strategy very clearly identifies the sectors where we feel we can make a real attractive offer, if you like, for inward investment—for compound semiconductors, cyber security, in the renewable space, in the fintech space that she talked about, and in terms of life sciences—and we've developed, I would suggest, a very sophisticated and comprehensive suite of propositions in those areas, and our engagement with clusters, stakeholders and various market channels in those sectors has borne fruit. I welcome that and want to see that continue. 

But I think it is also important for the Member to acknowledge that the consequence of the negotiation that the UK Government have undertaken and their approach to negotiations is to be regretted, because if they had taken a more constructive approach, the story would be even better.

Fe geisiaf gysylltu fy ymateb â rhywfaint o'r dystiolaeth, sy'n debyg o fod yn ffordd ddefnyddiol o edrych ar hyn yn fy marn i. Y gwir amdani yw y bu dirywiad sylweddol mewn mewnfuddsoddiad yn dilyn refferendwm 2016. Drwy ymdrechion da llawer iawn o bobl, rwy'n falch o ddweud y bu cynnydd o'r lefel is honno y llynedd, felly mae hynny'n gadarnhaol ac rydym yn croesawu hynny'n llwyr. Ond mae'n gadarnhaol ar ôl cael cwymp o ganlyniad i'r ansicrwydd hwnnw, nad ydym fel Llywodraeth yn ei groesawu, yn sicr, ac nid oedd busnesau'n gyffredinol yng Nghymru yn ei groesawu chwaith.

Drwy gydol y pandemig yn enwedig rydym wedi ymgymryd â rhaglen ymgysylltu sylweddol iawn, gyda'n mewnfuddsoddwyr cyfredol i sicrhau eu bod yn cael y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt, ond hefyd i nodi cyfleoedd eraill, mewn ffordd sydd wedi bod yn gynhyrchiol iawn. Mae'r strategaeth ryngwladol yn nodi'n glir iawn y sectorau lle rydym yn teimlo y gallwn wneud cynnig gwirioneddol ddeniadol, os mynnwch, ar gyfer mewnfuddsoddiad—ar gyfer lled-ddargludyddion cyfansawdd, seiberddiogelwch, yn y maes ynni adnewyddadwy, yn y maes technoleg ariannol y soniodd amdano, ac mewn gwyddorau bywyd—ac rydym wedi datblygu cyfres gynhwysfawr a soffistigedig iawn o gynigion yn y meysydd hynny, ac mae ein gwaith ymgysylltu â chlystyrau, rhanddeiliaid a sianeli marchnad amrywiol yn y sectorau hynny wedi dwyn ffrwyth. Rwy'n croesawu hynny, a hoffwn weld hynny’n parhau.

Ond credaf ei bod hefyd yn bwysig i'r Aelod gydnabod pa mor anffodus yw canlyniad y negodi a wnaed gan Lywodraeth y DU a'u hymagwedd tuag at y negodiadau, oherwydd pe byddent wedi mabwysiadu ymagwedd fwy adeiladol, byddai pethau hyd yn oed yn well.

15:05

The WDA brought in a number of basic assembly plants—often described as 'screwdriver plants'—from all over the world. Many came, and they've mostly gone. Does the Minister agree that we need inward investment that will bring high-quality and high-tech employment that will last, no matter where it comes from, and that the last thing we want is a number of post office box investments, where they pay to have a PO box in Wales without employing anybody?

Daeth Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru â nifer o weithfeydd cydosod sylfaenol yma—a elwir yn aml yn 'weithfeydd sgriwdreifer'—o bob cwr o'r byd. Daeth llawer ohonynt yma, ac mae’r rhan fwyaf ohonynt wedi mynd. A yw'r Gweinidog yn cytuno bod angen mewnfuddsoddiad arnom a fydd yn dod â chyflogaeth o ansawdd uchel a chyflogaeth uwch-dechnoleg a fydd yn para, ni waeth o ble y daw, ac mai'r peth olaf rydym ei eisiau yw nifer o fuddsoddiadau blwch swyddfa bost, lle maent yn talu i gael blwch swyddfa bost yng Nghymru heb gyflogi unrhyw un?

Can I thank Mike Hedges for that very important question? I think he identifies a very significant issue and sets the right direction of travel in his question. Through the international strategy that I mentioned just a moment ago, we've been very clear that what we are seeking is value-added investment, if you like, into the Welsh economy, in the way that the Minister for the economy was talking about in his questions earlier. We will continue the work of proactively promoting the part of the economy that can help us deliver that. And in addition to some of the sectors that I already mentioned in my response to Michelle Brown, whether it's marine energy or the medical technology space, there are a number of areas where we can draw investment, and we continue to want to do that, but, in the way that his question implies, to ensure that that investment is value added, and therefore can deliver long-term, sustainable, productive economic activity in Wales and decent jobs.

A gaf fi ddiolch i Mike Hedges am ei gwestiwn pwysig iawn? Credaf ei fod yn nodi mater pwysig iawn ac yn gosod y cyfeiriad teithio cywir yn ei gwestiwn. Drwy'r strategaeth ryngwladol y soniais amdani gynnau, rydym wedi dweud yn glir iawn mai'r hyn rydym yn ei geisio yw buddsoddiad sy'n ychwanegu gwerth, os mynnwch, i economi Cymru, yn y ffordd y soniodd Gweinidog yr economi amdani yn ei gwestiynau yn gynharach. Byddwn yn parhau â'r gwaith o fynd ati’n rhagweithiol i hyrwyddo'r rhan o'r economi a all ein helpu i gyflawni hynny. Ac yn ychwanegol at rai o'r sectorau y soniais amdanynt eisoes yn fy ymateb i Michelle Brown, boed yn ynni’r môr neu dechnoleg feddygol, ceir nifer o feysydd lle gallwn ddenu buddsoddiad, ac rydym yn parhau i fod yn awyddus i wneud hynny, ond yn y ffordd yr awgryma ei gwestiwn, er mwyn sicrhau bod y buddsoddiad hwnnw'n ychwanegu gwerth, ac felly'n gallu cyflawni gweithgarwch economaidd hirdymor, cynaliadwy a chynhyrchiol yng Nghymru a swyddi da.

Hawliau Cerddorion yng nghyswllt yr UE
The Rights of Musicians in relation to the EU

5. Beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i ddiogelu hawliau cerddorion i weithio a theithio ar draws yr Undeb Ewropeaidd a thu hwnt? OQ56359

5. What is the Welsh Government doing to protect the rights of musicians to work and travel across the European Union and beyond? OQ56359

The issues faced by musicians and performers are not to be dismissed as teething problems; they are the consequence of the trade and co-operation agreement negotiated by the UK Government. We are working closely with the Arts Council of Wales, Wales Arts International, Creative Wales and other stakeholder groups to fully understand and respond to the impacts.

Ni ddylid diystyru’r problemau sy'n wynebu cerddorion a pherfformwyr fel problemau cychwynnol; maent yn ganlyniad i’r cytundeb masnach a chydweithredu a negodwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU. Rydym yn gweithio'n agos gyda Chyngor Celfyddydau Cymru, Celfyddydau Rhyngwladol Cymru, Cymru Greadigol a grwpiau rhanddeiliaid eraill i ddeall yr effeithiau’n iawn ac i ymateb iddynt.

Thank you. I'm very proud of Cardiff, which became the first—and possibly only—music city in the UK, because it is central to our economy as well as our culture. Because musicians are all freelancers, if they don't earn any money, they don't eat, so on top of the pandemic, leaving the EU has caused new barriers for musicians to travel. Now, happily, I understand that the Musicians Union has negotiated some discounts on the carnets they now have to have to take their equipment abroad to share their talents elsewhere, but that obviously won't benefit musicians who want to come and perform in Cardiff. The danger is that we'll just cease to be a place where performers want to come to, and they'll simply go elsewhere in Europe and skip the UK and Cardiff altogether. What can the Welsh Government do to prevent this mess of the UK's making becoming a major issue for musicians?

Diolch. Rwy'n falch iawn o Gaerdydd, a ddaeth yn ddinas gerddoriaeth gyntaf—a'r unig un o bosib—yn y DU, gan ei bod yn ganolog i'n heconomi yn ogystal â'n diwylliant. Gan fod pob cerddor yn weithiwr llawrydd, os nad ydynt yn ennill unrhyw arian, nid ydynt yn bwyta, felly yn ogystal â'r pandemig, mae gadael yr UE wedi creu rhwystrau newydd i gerddorion rhag teithio. Nawr, rwy’n falch o ddeall bod Undeb y Cerddorion wedi negodi gostyngiadau ar y trwyddedau y mae'n rhaid iddynt eu cael bellach i fynd â'u hoffer dramor i rannu eu doniau mewn mannau eraill, ond yn amlwg, ni fydd hynny o fudd i gerddorion sydd am ddod i berfformio yng Nghaerdydd. Y perygl yw na fyddwn yn rhywle lle bydd perfformwyr am ddod iddo mwyach, a byddant yn mynd i rywle arall yn Ewrop ac yn anwybyddu’r DU a Chaerdydd yn gyfan gwbl. Beth y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud i atal y llanastr hwn a wnaed gan y DU rhag dod yn broblem sylweddol i gerddorion?

Well, Llywydd, I thank Jenny Rathbone for that supplementary question and acknowledge all the work that she does to support the music sector and live music sector in particular, which is so important, obviously, in her constituency, but to Wales at large. We absolutely as a Government recognise the importance of musicians and the broader creative industries to Wales, and the combined effects of leaving the European Union and COVID have been incredibly difficult challenges for the sector.

We are doing what we can with stakeholders to try and respond to this, but crucially also making representations to the UK Government, in whose hands some of these levers lie, to ensure that they are fully aware, through the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport in particular, of the impact of these new arrangements in Wales. Where we have the ability to do this, we are taking our own steps, so working with others through the Arts Info Point UK pilot initiative to try and support the arts sectors in relation to questions around mobility and some of the practical challenges that are arising as a consequence. But, as she says, we want to make sure that artists both can travel from Wales to other parts of Europe, but also that we can continue to attract the talent that she talks about in her question, in a way that is really important for maintaining that vibrant, stimulating and creative economy that we all enjoy and we all benefit from in many, many ways.

Wel, Lywydd, diolch i Jenny Rathbone am y cwestiwn atodol hwnnw ac rwy’n cydnabod yr holl waith y mae'n ei wneud i gefnogi'r sector cerddoriaeth a'r sector cerddoriaeth fyw yn enwedig, sydd mor bwysig, yn amlwg, yn ei hetholaeth hi, ond i Gymru yn gyffredinol. Rydym ni fel Llywodraeth yn llwyr gydnabod pwysigrwydd cerddorion a'r diwydiannau creadigol ehangach i Gymru, ac mae effeithiau cyfunol gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd a COVID wedi bod yn heriau anhygoel o anodd i'r sector.

Rydym yn gwneud yr hyn a allwn gyda rhanddeiliaid i geisio ymateb i hyn, ond yn hollbwysig, rydym hefyd yn cyflwyno sylwadau i Lywodraeth y DU, gan fod rhai o'r ysgogiadau hyn yn eu dwylo hwy, i sicrhau eu bod yn gwbl ymwybodol, drwy'r Adran dros Dechnoleg Ddigidol, Diwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon yn benodol, o effaith y trefniadau newydd hyn yng Nghymru. Lle mae gennym allu i wneud hyn, rydym yn rhoi ein camau ein hunain ar waith, felly'n gweithio gydag eraill drwy fenter beilot Gwybodfan Celf y DU i geisio cefnogi'r sectorau celfyddydol mewn perthynas â chwestiynau ynghylch symudedd a rhai o'r heriau ymarferol sy'n codi o ganlyniad. Ond fel y dywed, rydym yn awyddus i sicrhau y gall artistiaid deithio o Gymru i rannau eraill o Ewrop, ond hefyd y gallwn barhau i ddenu'r dalent y sonia amdani yn ei chwestiwn, mewn ffordd sy'n wirioneddol bwysig i gynnal yr economi fywiog, ysgogol a chreadigol y mae pob un ohonom yn ei mwynhau ac y mae pob un ohonom yn elwa ohoni mewn nifer fawr o ffyrdd.

15:10
Astudio Dramor
Studying Abroad

6. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol wedi'u cael ynghylch gallu pobl Cymru i astudio dramor ar ôl i'r DU ymadael â'r UE? OQ56360

6. What discussions has the Counsel General had regarding the ability of Welsh people to study abroad following the UK's withdrawal from the EU? OQ56360

I've had a number of discussions with colleagues and stakeholders from across the education sector. They've made clear their concerns regarding the UK Government's decision not to participate in Erasmus+ and the shortcomings of the Turing Scheme as a replacement, and the damage that this will do to the ability of Welsh people to study overseas.

Rwyf wedi cael nifer o drafodaethau gyda chydweithwyr a rhanddeiliaid o bob rhan o'r sector addysg. Maent wedi nodi'n glir eu pryderon ynghylch penderfyniad Llywodraeth y DU i beidio â chymryd rhan yn Erasmus+ a diffygion Cynllun Turing fel rhywbeth i gymryd ei le, a'r niwed y bydd hyn yn ei wneud i allu pobl Cymru i astudio dramor.

Thank you. I thought we were going to have less doom and gloom, but here we go. I'm actually quite happy with the UK Government's budget today and I just thought that we could've shared some of that happiness.

Now, as I hope you'll agree, the announcement of the new £110 million Turing Scheme was excellent news. The pioneering project will support students from across the UK and from all backgrounds to take advantage of the benefits of studying and working abroad from September 2021. In fact, so committed is the UK Government to help level up opportunities for people across the country that the scheme is going to be looking to target students from disadvantaged backgrounds. The UK Government has moved us from being EU focused to having a proactive global education agenda.

As the chief executive of the Association of Colleges has put it,

'The Turing scheme opens the world’s door to work and study placements for college students.'

Now, in your end-of-transition action plan, you note that the Welsh Government would

'continue to press the UK Government for continued participation in Erasmus+ from 2021-22 onwards'.

Will you now revise this position and support our students from disadvantaged backgrounds in Wales in using the Turing Scheme to reach out to the world? And will you just now start to look, Counsel General, at being more progressive? Thank you.

Diolch. Roeddwn yn meddwl y byddem yn cael llai o dristwch ac anobaith, ond dyna ni. A dweud y gwir, rwy’n eithaf hapus â chyllideb Llywodraeth y DU heddiw, ac roeddwn wedi meddwl y gallem fod wedi rhannu peth o'r hapusrwydd hwnnw.

Nawr, fel y gobeithiaf y byddwch yn cytuno, roedd y cyhoeddiad am y Cynllun Turing newydd gwerth £110 miliwn yn newyddion gwych. Bydd y prosiect arloesol yn cynorthwyo myfyrwyr o bob rhan o'r DU ac o bob cefndir i fanteisio ar fanteision astudio a gweithio dramor o fis Medi 2021. Mewn gwirionedd, mae Llywodraeth y DU mor ymrwymedig i helpu i godi'r gwastad gyda chyfleoedd i bobl ledled y wlad fel y bydd y cynllun yn ceisio targedu myfyrwyr o gefndiroedd difreintiedig. Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi ein symud o ganolbwyntio ar yr UE i fod ag agenda addysg fyd-eang ragweithiol.

Fel y dywedodd prif weithredwr Cymdeithas y Colegau,

Mae cynllun Turing yn agor drws y byd i leoliadau gweithio ac astudio ar gyfer myfyrwyr coleg.

Nawr, yn eich cynllun gweithredu diwedd y cyfnod pontio, rydych yn nodi y byddai Llywodraeth Cymru

‘yn parhau i bwyso ar Lywodraeth y DU i sicrhau parhad y cyfranogiad yn Erasmus+ o 2021-22 ymlaen’.

A wnewch chi adolygu'r safbwynt hwn yn awr, a chefnogi ein myfyrwyr o gefndiroedd difreintiedig yng Nghymru drwy ddefnyddio Cynllun Turing i estyn allan i'r byd? Ac a wnewch chi ddechrau edrych yn awr, Gwnsler Cyffredinol, ar fod yn fwy blaengar? Diolch.

Well, I absolutely share the ambition of anybody who wants to see students from Wales being able to take full advantage of the sorts of international opportunities that were available to them under Erasmus and would be even more widely available under its replacement scheme. I think it's a very important part of our culture and a very important part of our international stance, if I may say. But I think the reality is that the Turing Scheme is significantly underfunded in comparison with Erasmus, and the reality is that it will, in fact, reduce opportunities.

It isn't, as the Member is increasingly fond of referring to, doom and gloom; it is, in fact, the reality that the Turing Scheme will not provide the same opportunities for people in further education or in schools, and it ignores the youth sector almost completely. The Erasmus+ replacement was a very significant enhancement in terms of its outreach to more disadvantaged participants, and that will not be replicated, I'm afraid, in the new arrangements. I don't think it serves anybody to simply pretend that these kinds of inadequate replacements are some sort of glorious alternative; they simply aren't. Now, the Turing Scheme is what it is, but it certainly isn't the kind of scheme that the Member described in her question, as offering the kinds of opportunities that Welsh students have been accustomed to.

Wel, yn sicr, rwy’n rhannu uchelgais unrhyw un sy’n dymuno gweld myfyrwyr o Gymru yn gallu manteisio i'r eithaf ar y mathau o gyfleoedd rhyngwladol a oedd ar gael iddynt o dan Erasmus ac a fyddai ar gael ar sail ehangach fyth o dan y cynllun a fydd yn cymryd ei le. Credaf ei fod yn rhan bwysig iawn o'n diwylliant ac yn rhan bwysig iawn o'n safbwynt rhyngwladol, os caf ddweud. Ond credaf mai'r gwir amdani yw bod Cynllun Turing wedi'i danariannu'n sylweddol o'i gymharu ag Erasmus, a'r gwir amdani yw y bydd, mewn gwirionedd, yn lleihau cyfleoedd.

Nid tristwch ac anobaith yw hyn, fel y mae'r Aelod yn fwyfwy hoff o nodi; y gwir amdani yw na fydd Cynllun Turing yn darparu'r un cyfleoedd i bobl mewn addysg bellach neu mewn ysgolion, ac mae'n anwybyddu'r sector ieuenctid bron yn llwyr. Roedd cynllun Erasmus+ yn welliant sylweddol iawn o ran ei allgymorth i gyfranogwyr mwy difreintiedig, ac ni fydd y trefniadau newydd cystal â'r cynllun hwnnw yn fy marn i. Ni chredaf fod esgus bod y mathau hyn o gynlluniau yn rhyw fath o ddewis amgen gogoneddus o fudd i unrhyw un; nid yw hynny’n wir. Nawr, mae Cynllun Turing yn sawl peth, ond yn sicr, nid yw’r math o gynllun a ddisgrifiodd yr Aelod yn ei chwestiwn, sef un sy'n cynnig y mathau o gyfleoedd y mae myfyrwyr Cymru wedi arfer â hwy.

My apologies to Vikki Howells, I skipped over question 4. I'll ask Rhun ap Iorwerth to ask his question 7 and then I'll go back to question 4 after the next question. Apologies for that. 

Ymddiheuriadau i Vikki Howells, methais gwestiwn 4. Fe ofynnaf i Rhun ap Iorwerth ofyn ei gwestiwn 7, ac fe af yn ôl wedyn at gwestiwn 4 ar ôl y cwestiwn nesaf. Ymddiheuriadau am hynny.

Cwestiwn 7, felly, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Question 7, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Porthladd Caergybi
The Port of Holyhead

7. A wnaiff y Cwnsler Cyffredinol ddatganiad ar effaith gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd ar draffig fferi drwy Borthladd Caergybi? OQ56354

7. Will the Counsel General make a statement on the impact of leaving the European Union on ferry traffic through the Port of Holyhead? OQ56354

Mae colli cludiant llwythi o'r llwybr rhwng Caergybi a Dulyn i borthladdoedd yng Ngogledd Iwerddon ac i lwybrau hirach ond mwy uniongyrchol o Iwerddon i gyfandir Ewrop yn peri pryder i ni. Canlyniad y cytundeb masnach a chydweithredu yw hwn, ac rŷn ni'n pwyso ar Lywodraeth Iwerddon a Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig i geisio lleihau'r problemau y mae cludwyr yn eu hwynebu.  

Losing traffic through the Holyhead to Dublin route to ports in Northern Ireland and to longer but more direct routes from Ireland to the continent of Europe is a cause of concern. This is a result of the trade and co-operation agreement, and we are pressing the UK and Irish Governments to try and minimise the problems faced by hauliers.

Diolch. Mae'r cwymp mewn masnach drwy'r porthladd yn sicr yn dal yn achos pryder mawr i fi. Fel y dywedodd un erthygl ar thejournal.ie cwpwl o ddyddiau yn ôl:

Thank you. The fall in traffic through the port is a cause of great concern for me. As one article on thejournal.ie said a few of days ago:

'When faced with a choice between a business taking a chance on a faster route that could end up being delayed for hours, or a slower route that will be guaranteed to arrive on time, businesses have—so far—been choosing certainty.'

Wrth wynebu dewis rhwng busnes yn mentro ar lwybr cyflymach a allai wynebu oedi am oriau yn y pen draw, neu lwybr arafach a fydd yn sicr o gyrraedd mewn pryd, mae busnesau—hyd yn hyn—wedi bod yn dewis sicrwydd.

Mae busnes yn licio sicrwydd. Mae'r un erthygl hefyd yn sôn am y costau ychwanegol sy'n bodoli rŵan sy'n effeithio ar fusnesau a'u cwsmeriaid. Mi wnaeth un cwmni o Fiwmares ddweud wrthyf i y byddai'r gost o fewnforio gwerth £1,500 o nwyddau £200 yn fwy rŵan nag y byddai wedi bod. Beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud mewn trafodaethau â Llywodraeth Prydain a Llywodraeth Iwerddon hefyd i geisio dylanwadu—y cyfan y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gallu ei wneud, mewn difri—ar lefel y gwaith papur a'r costau sy'n gysylltiedig â mewnforion ac, yn allweddol, allforion ar draws Môr Iwerddon, ac i annog gwell llif o fasnach, eto a fyddai'n dda i Gaergybi?

Business, of course, likes certainty. The same article mentions the additional costs that exist now that impact on businesses and their customers. One company from Beaumaris told me that the cost of importing £1,500 worth of goods would be £200 higher now than it would have been previously. What is the Welsh Government doing in negotiations with the UK and Irish Governments to try to influence—because it's all the Welsh Government can do—the level of bureaucracy and the costs related to imports and, crucially, exports across the Irish sea, and to encourage better flow of trade, which would benefit Holyhead, of course?

15:15

Rŷn ni wedi bod yn gweithio ar y cyd â rhanddeiliaid i ddatblygu cynllun pum pwynt sydd wedi ffocysu ar y gallu i gymryd camau penodol i geisio ateb rhai o'r problemau hynny y mae'r cludwyr wedi bod yn eu disgrifio wrthym ni i gyd. Rŷn ni'n gobeithio gallu cyhoeddi'r cynllun hwnnw ar y cyd cyn diwedd y mis, felly gobeithio y bydd camau ymlaen yn digwydd yn sgil hynny. Fel y mae'r cwestiwn yn ei ddisgrifio, mae llawer o'r camau penodol yma wedi'u cadw'n ôl i Lywodraeth San Steffan, ond mae'n bosib i ni geisio—ac rŷn ni wedi llwyddo—dylanwadu ar hynny. Lle mae gennym ni ein penderfyniadau a'n cyfrifoldebau ein hunain sydd, efallai, ddim yn uniongyrchol yn rhan o'r sialens hon—er enghraifft, ynglŷn â lleoli canolfannau gwirio rheoliadol ar gyfer y dyfodol—rŷn ni'n sicr fel Llywodraeth ein bod ni'n moyn gwneud hynny mewn ffordd sydd ddim yn mynd i gynyddu'r ansicrwydd a chynyddu'r anghyfleustra i bobl sy'n cludo drwy Gaergybi. Felly, rŷn ni'n sicr eisiau lleoli'r rheini mor agos i'r porthladd ag sydd yn bosib i wneud y siwrnai yn haws i'r cludwyr hynny, ac rwy'n gobeithio dweud mwy am hynny yn y dyddiau nesaf.

We have been working jointly with stakeholders to develop a five-point plan that is focused on taking specific steps to address some of the problems that hauliers have been describing to us. We hope to be in a position to publish that plan jointly before the end of the month, so I hope that progress will be made as a result of that. As your question describes, many of the specific steps are reserved to the UK Government, but we can try to—and we have succeeded—influence that. Where we do have responsibilities of our own here that aren't, perhaps, directly related to this challenge—with regard to the location of checking centres for the future, for example—then we as a Government are certain that we want to do that in a way that won't increase uncertainty and increase the disadvantage to those people using the port of Holyhead. Therefore, we want to locate those as close to the port as possible in order to make that journey easier for those hauliers, and I hope to say more about that over the next few days.

Slightly back to front, question 4, Vikki Howells.

Y tu ôl ymlaen, braidd, cwestiwn 4, Vikki Howells.

Lleoliadau Gwaith Tymor Byr
Short-term Work Placements

4. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol wedi'u cael am leoliadau gwaith tymor byr i ddysgwyr o rannau eraill o Ewrop sy'n dod i Gymru ar ôl Brexit? OQ56350

4. What discussions has the Counsel General had about short-term work placements for learners from other parts of Europe coming to Wales post-Brexit? OQ56350

In addition to regular discussions on immigration and Erasmus+ matters at Cabinet sub-committee, I have recently written to the Minister for immigration specifically highlighting the impact of the new rules on vocational learners from the EU undertaking work placements in the UK as part of the Erasmus+ programme.

Yn ogystal â thrafodaethau rheolaidd ar faterion mewnfudo ac Erasmus+ yn is-bwyllgor y Cabinet, yn ddiweddar ysgrifennais at y Gweinidog mewnfudo gan dynnu sylw penodol at effaith y rheolau newydd ar ddysgwyr galwedigaethol o'r UE ar leoliadau gwaith yn y DU fel rhan o raglen Erasmus+.

Thank you, Minister. I've been in contact with ColegauCymru, who are concerned that the planned costs and timescales involved for vocational learners from the EU who wish to undertake short unpaid work experience in the UK will make such placements prohibitive. If they are in place for EU learners who wish to come to the UK, they could also be in place for Welsh learners wishing to take up placements in Europe. Counsel General, I'd welcome your reflections on this situation and on any discussions you have had to make sure that this is not the case and that these types of placements can continue. 

Diolch, Weinidog. Rwyf wedi bod mewn cysylltiad â ColegauCymru, sy'n poeni y bydd y costau a'r amserlenni arfaethedig ar gyfer dysgwyr galwedigaethol o'r UE sy'n dymuno gwneud profiad gwaith di-dâl byr yn y DU yn gwneud lleoliadau o'r fath yn anodd iawn. Os ydynt ar waith ar gyfer dysgwyr yr UE sy'n dymuno dod i'r DU, gallent hefyd fod ar waith ar gyfer dysgwyr o Gymru sy'n dymuno mynd ar leoliad yn Ewrop. Gwnsler Cyffredinol, byddwn yn croesawu eich barn ar y sefyllfa hon ac ar unrhyw drafodaethau rydych wedi'u cael i sicrhau nad yw hyn yn wir, ac y gall y mathau hyn o leoliadau barhau.

I thank Vikki Howells for raising this really important question. We share a desire to make sure that these work placements can happen in a way that is very streamlined and supports their delivery. ColegauCymru are correct that the nature of the trade and co-operation agreement means that education and training providers are dealing, obviously, with new visa and immigration arrangements and the cost implications of that as well, as she suggests. That applies to exchanges undertaken either this year or next year using Erasmus+ funding, where they were approved before leaving the transition period. Our view, as a Government, is that in order to support the UK remaining an attractive option and a welcoming place for EU learners, and to maintain that reciprocity, if you like, across the European Union that several Members have spoken about today as well, it's really essential that the UK Government addresses what is a clear restriction, if you like, on the mobility of learners.

There hasn't been any ministerial engagement with the devolved Governments since July 2019. We felt as a Government that, having had opportunities prior to that to meet as four Governments to discuss these issues, that was a productive way of working, even though it's an area that is reserved. We haven't seen any progress—I think I wrote at the end of last year—in relation to this matter. I've written again now to Kevin Foster, who's the Minister for immigration, to highlight some of the issues that the Member has raised today, but also to try and reinstate that pattern of four-Government working, so that we can help influence some of these things in a way that stops the issues arising that the Member has raised today.

Diolch i Vikki Howells am godi'r cwestiwn gwirioneddol bwysig hwn. Rydym yn rhannu awydd i sicrhau y gall y lleoliadau gwaith hyn ddigwydd mewn ffordd syml iawn sy'n cefnogi eu cyflawniad. Mae ColegauCymru yn gywir i ddweud bod natur y cytundeb masnach a chydweithredu yn golygu bod darparwyr addysg a hyfforddiant yn ymdrin, yn amlwg, â threfniadau fisa a mewnfudo newydd a goblygiadau hynny o ran cost hefyd, fel yr awgryma. Mae hynny'n berthnasol i drefniadau cyfnewid naill ai eleni neu'r flwyddyn nesaf gan ddefnyddio cyllid Erasmus+, lle cawsant eu cymeradwyo cyn gadael y cyfnod pontio. Er mwyn cynorthwyo'r DU i barhau i fod yn opsiwn deniadol ac yn lle croesawgar i ddysgwyr yr UE, a chynnal y dwyochredd hwnnw, os mynnwch, ar draws yr Undeb Ewropeaidd y mae sawl Aelod wedi sôn amdano heddiw hefyd, ein barn ni fel Llywodraeth yw ei bod hi'n wirioneddol hanfodol fod Llywodraeth y DU yn mynd i'r afael â'r hyn sy'n gyfyngiad amlwg, os mynnwch, ar symudedd dysgwyr.

Ni chafwyd unrhyw ymgysylltiad gweinidogol â'r Llywodraethau datganoledig ers mis Gorffennaf 2019. Roeddem yn teimlo, fel Llywodraeth, ar ôl cael cyfleoedd cyn hynny i gyfarfod fel pedair Llywodraeth i drafod y materion hyn, fod honno'n ffordd gynhyrchiol o weithio, er ei fod yn faes a gedwir yn ôl. Nid ydym wedi gweld unrhyw gynnydd—credaf imi ysgrifennu ddiwedd y llynedd—mewn perthynas â'r mater hwn. Rwyf wedi ysgrifennu eto yn awr at Kevin Foster, y Gweinidog mewnfudo, i dynnu sylw at rai o'r materion a godwyd gan yr Aelod heddiw, ond hefyd i geisio adfer y patrwm o gydweithio rhwng y pedair Llywodraeth, fel y gallwn helpu i ddylanwadu ar rai o'r pethau hyn mewn ffordd sy'n atal y materion a nodwyd gan yr Aelod heddiw rhag codi.

15:20

Diolch i'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol.

I thank the Counsel General.

3. Cwestiynau Amserol
3. Topical Questions

Ni dderbyniwyd unrhyw rai o'r cwestiynau amserol heddiw.

No topical questions were accepted today.

4. Datganiadau 90 Eiliad
4. 90-second Statements

Y datganiadau 90 eiliad sydd nesaf, ac mae'r datganiad cyntaf heddiw gan Mike Hedges.

We move, therefore, to the 90-second statements, and the first statement today is from Mike Hedges.

Diolch, Llywydd. I'm going to talk about John Hughes. During the past year in Swansea we have been celebrating 'Calon Lân' with words by Daniel James, better known by his bardic name of Gwyrosydd. While not underestimating the importance of the words of the hymn, we must not forget the importance of the tune. When listening to Radio Wales in early February, I heard someone in America trying to remember a hymn from their childhood. They could not remember the words, but they could remember the tune, and that was instantly recognisable on being hummed as 'Calon Lân'. The tune was created by John Hughes, who was a Welsh composer who is best known for 'Calon Lân', but that's not the only thing he did. He wrote a number of other hymn tunes for cymanfa ganus in the Swansea area. He wrote the tune for 'Calon Lân' because he was asked to by Gwyrosydd, who knew how good a composer of tunes he was. He was from Pembrokeshire originally, and the house where he was born bears a plaque. There is also a memorial plaque in Treboeth. He worked his entire career in the Dyffryn steelworks in Morriston, starting off as an office boy, and ending up as a marketing manager. He travelled internationally with the company and taught himself six languages besides his native Welsh. He is buried at Caersalem chapel in Treboeth, and he has a granddaughter who still lives in Ynystawe. Although his name is not instantly recognisable, his tune is.

Diolch, Lywydd. Rwyf am sôn am John Hughes. Yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf yn Abertawe, rydym wedi bod yn dathlu 'Calon Lân’, gyda geiriau gan Daniel James, sy'n fwy adnabyddus wrth ei enw barddol, Gwyrosydd. Heb fychanu pwysigrwydd geiriau'r emyn, mae'n rhaid inni beidio ag anghofio pwysigrwydd y dôn. Wrth wrando ar Radio Wales ddechrau mis Chwefror, clywais rywun yn America yn ceisio cofio emyn o’u plentyndod. Nid oeddent yn cofio'r geiriau, ond gallent gofio'r dôn, ac roedd yn hawdd adnabod honno fel 'Calon Lân’ pan gafodd ei hymian. Cafodd y dôn ei chreu gan John Hughes, cyfansoddwr a Chymro sy'n fwyaf adnabyddus am 'Calon Lân', ond nid dyna'r unig beth a wnaeth. Ysgrifennodd nifer o emyn-donau eraill ar gyfer cymanfaoedd canu yn ardal Abertawe. Ysgrifennodd y dôn ar gyfer 'Calon Lân' wedi i Gwyrosydd ofyn iddo, gan fod hwnnw’n gwybod cystal cyfansoddwr tonau ydoedd. Roedd yn hanu o Sir Benfro'n wreiddiol, ac mae plac ar y tŷ lle cafodd ei eni. Mae plac coffa hefyd yn Nhreboeth. Bu’n gweithio drwy gydol ei yrfa yng ngwaith dur Dyffryn yn Nhreforys, gan gychwyn fel bachgen swyddfa, a gorffen fel rheolwr marchnata. Teithiodd yn rhyngwladol gyda'r cwmni, a dysgodd chwe iaith iddo'i hun ar wahân i Gymraeg, ei famiaith. Mae wedi’i gladdu yng nghapel Caersalem yn Nhreboeth, ac mae ganddo wyres sy'n dal i fyw yn Ynysdawe. Er nad yw ei enw'n adnabyddus i bawb, ni ellir dweud hynny am ei dôn.

I was expecting to hear some humming of the tune there, Mike Hedges. You can keep that for another day, maybe. 

Roeddwn yn disgwyl clywed y dôn yn cael ei hymian, Mike Hedges. Gallwch gadw hynny tan ryw dro arall, efallai.

Nesaf, Bethan Sayed.

Next, Bethan Sayed.

I was tempted, but I won't today.

This week we mark Eating Disorders Awareness Week 2021. I've campaigned on this issue for many years, and since I was first elected in 2007 this is an issue I've prioritised. During this time we have made many strides forward, particularly on awareness and broadening the understanding of all issues relating to mental health. Too often we see conditions that require a specialist knowledge misunderstood, with people saying that it's a diet gone wrong, or a lifestyle choice. This has been the case when it comes to eating disorders, and entirely the case for binge eating, which is the theme of this year's eating disorders awareness week.

As this will probably be the last Eating Disorders Awareness Week that I spend as an elected Member, over the past 14 years we have led on this agenda and set in stone that this is an area that we have to prioritise and that we have to make sure is advocated for when I leave the Senedd and when that cross-party group continues. It has been a privilege to work with Beat and the cross-party group, with survivors and with professionals, in making sure we raise this issue at the top of the political agenda. I sincerely hope that the changes the Welsh Government have implemented will be put forward in the next Senedd term and that additional funding is found for this most important service.

Binge eating disorder is the most common, but often the least understood. It is especially difficult for people to find treatment, and helpline advisers at the charity Beat consistently hear that people with binge eating disorder experience significant shame and fear in reaching out for support. People with binge eating disorders regularly feel out of control about how they eat, and they feel distressed afterwards. It's a serious mental health illness and it can affect anyone of any age, gender, ethnicity or background. To finish, I'd like to ask the next Welsh Government to fully implement the recommendations made in the 2018 eating disorders service review, including recommendation 12 concerning the identification, referral and treatment of people with binge eating disorders, as soon as possible.

Cefais fy nhemtio, ond ddim heddiw.

Yr wythnos hon, rydym yn nodi Wythnos Ymwybyddiaeth Anhwylderau Bwyta 2021. Rwyf wedi ymgyrchu ar y mater hwn ers blynyddoedd lawer, ac ers imi gael fy ethol gyntaf yn 2007, mae hwn yn fater rwyf wedi’i flaenoriaethu. Yn yr amser hwn, rydym wedi gwneud cryn dipyn o gynnydd, yn enwedig ar ymwybyddiaeth ac ar ehangu dealltwriaeth o'r holl faterion sy'n gysylltiedig ag iechyd meddwl. Yn rhy aml, rydym yn gweld cyflyrau sy'n gofyn am wybodaeth arbenigol yn cael eu camddeall, gyda phobl yn dweud mai deiet wedi mynd o'i le ydyw, neu ddewis ffordd o fyw. Mae hyn wedi bod yn wir mewn perthynas ag anhwylderau bwyta, ac yn gwbl wir am orfwyta mewn pyliau, sef thema'r wythnos ymwybyddiaeth anhwylderau bwyta eleni.

Gan mai hon, mae'n debyg, fydd yr Wythnos Ymwybyddiaeth Anhwylderau Bwyta olaf i mi ei threulio fel Aelod etholedig, dros y 14 mlynedd diwethaf, rydym wedi arwain ar yr agenda hon ac wedi sicrhau unwaith ac am byth fod hwn yn faes y mae'n rhaid i ni ei flaenoriaethu a sicrhau ei fod yn cael ei hyrwyddo pan fyddaf yn gadael y Senedd a phan fydd y grŵp trawsbleidiol hwnnw'n parhau. Mae wedi bod yn fraint cael gweithio gyda Beat a’r grŵp trawsbleidiol, gyda goroeswyr a chyda gweithwyr proffesiynol, i sicrhau ein bod yn codi’r mater hwn i frig yr agenda wleidyddol. Rwy’n mawr obeithio y bydd y newidiadau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi’u rhoi ar waith yn cael eu cyflwyno yn nhymor y Senedd nesaf ac y darperir cyllid ychwanegol ar gyfer y gwasanaeth hollbwysig hwn.

Anhwylder gorfwyta mewn pyliau yw'r mwyaf cyffredin, ond yn aml, hwnnw y mae pobl yn ei ddeall leiaf. Mae'n arbennig o anodd i bobl gael gafael ar driniaeth, ac mae cynghorwyr y llinell gymorth yn elusen Beat yn clywed yn gyson fod pobl ag anhwylder gorfwyta mewn pyliau yn teimlo cryn dipyn o gywilydd ac ofn wrth ofyn am gymorth. Mae pobl ag anhwylderau gorfwyta mewn pyliau yn aml yn teimlo nad oes ganddynt reolaeth ar sut y maent yn bwyta, ac maent yn teimlo'n ofidus wedyn. Mae'n salwch meddwl difrifol, a gall effeithio ar unrhyw un o unrhyw oedran, rhyw, ethnigrwydd neu gefndir. I gloi, hoffwn ofyn i Lywodraeth nesaf Cymru roi’r argymhellion a wnaed yn yr adolygiad o wasanaethau anhwylderau bwyta yn 2018 ar waith yn llawn, gan gynnwys argymhelliad 12, sy’n ymwneud â nodi, atgyfeirio a thrin pobl ag anhwylderau gorfwyta mewn pyliau, cyn gynted â phosibl.

5. Cynnig i ddirymu Rheoliadau Adnoddau Dŵr (Rheoli Llygredd Amaethyddol) (Cymru) 2021
5. Motion to Annul The Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) Regulations 2021

Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r cynnig i ddirymu Rheoliadau Adnoddau Dŵr (Rheoli Llygredd Amaethyddol) (Cymru) 2021, a dwi'n galw ar Llyr Gruffydd i gyflwyno'r cynnig hynny. Llyr Gruffydd.

The next item is the motion to annul the Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) Regulations 2021, and I call on Llyr Gruffydd to move the motion. Llyr Gruffydd.

Cynnig NDM7576 Llyr Gruffydd

Cynnig bod y Senedd, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 27.2:

Yn cytuno bod Rheoliadau Adnoddau Dŵr (Rheoli Llygredd Amaethyddol) (Cymru) 2021, a osodwyd gerbron y Senedd ar 27 Ionawr 2021, yn cael eu dirymu.

Motion NDM7576 Llyr Gruffydd

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.2:

Agrees that The Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) Regulations 2021, laid before the Senedd on 27 January 2021, be annulled.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. I'd like to start, maybe, by just shattering a few myths. Plaid Cymru is not in favour of accepting the status quo on water quality. We support action and stronger regulations on pollution. So, anyone who wants to characterise this debate in a way that suggests otherwise is intentionally misleading people. We absolutely support the need to tackle water pollution, and we're committed to introducing regulations to do that. The issue here, though, of course, is that these particular regulations put forward by the Government are not the right answer. 

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Lywydd. Hoffwn ddechrau, efallai, drwy chwalu ychydig o fythau. Nid yw Plaid Cymru o blaid derbyn y status quo ar ansawdd dŵr. Rydym yn cefnogi camau gweithredu a rheoliadau cryfach ar lygredd. Felly, mae unrhyw un sydd am ddisgrifio'r ddadl hon mewn ffordd sy'n awgrymu fel arall yn camarwain pobl yn fwriadol. Rydym yn llwyr gefnogi'r angen i fynd i'r afael â llygredd dŵr, ac rydym wedi ymrwymo i gyflwyno rheoliadau i wneud hynny. Y broblem yma, serch hynny wrth gwrs, yw nad y rheoliadau hyn a gyflwynwyd gan y Llywodraeth yw'r ateb cywir.

15:25

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) i’r Gadair.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

These regulations are disproportionate. Natural Resources Wales's advice—of course, the experts' advice—to Welsh Government was to designate 8 per cent of Wales as a nitrate vulnerable zone. The Government has ignored that and gone for 100 per cent coverage. Why is that problematic? Well, it's because you're clobbering everyone, the whole of the industry, with the requirement for farms in all parts of Wales, even those who haven't transgressed, in catchments that maybe haven't experienced pollution incidents, to pay tens of thousands of pounds of money, that they don't have, actually, on infrastructure that, for some, isn't necessary when you look at the evidence.

There will be unintended environmental consequences as well, of course. Using calendar dates rather than weather conditions to dictate when slurry can be spread is an absurd proposition. The Minister herself expressed concern at this approach just a few months ago when I quizzed her on it. And others, such as the prominent environmentalist Tony Juniper, who chairs Natural England—he has said that it just doesn't make sense. It's an irrational proposition that will cause huge spikes in nitrates at particular times of the year, which could then, of course, introduce new pollution issues in areas where there are no problems currently.

According to the Government's own estimates, the upfront capital costs to the farming industry to comply with these regulations will be within a range of £109 million to £360 million. That £360 million is £30 million more than Wales's total average annual common agricultural policy budget over the last six years. Even the Welsh Government's lowest estimate places the cost for Welsh farms at 42 per cent of the total income from Welsh farming in 2019. Many farms are already operating on the breadline, and this is going to just push them over the edge. Losing these farms means, of course, losing some of our food-producing capacity, meaning increased levels of food imports, bringing with it a further environmental cost. One milk processor says that its analysis shows that possibly a third of their dairy farms will cease production. Losing those small and medium-sized family farms will mean a growth in the number of large farming units, leading to more industrial-scale dairy farming. How many times have Members in this Senedd spoken out against that?

It isn't just farmers, of course, who'll struggle to find the capital investment needed to meet these regulations; there are 1,000 council farms in Wales, and local authorities will have to find up to £36 million to pay for the necessary new infrastructure. It was only yesterday that the Government's budget had to find more money for the local authority hardship fund. Are councils really going to be able to find tens of millions of pounds of additional money, when the Government is already having to bail them out to pay for core services? So, we know what's going to happen; more council farms are going to be sold off, further reducing the opportunity for young people and new entrants to start farming.

Designating all of Wales as an NVZ isn't a silver bullet. An NRW monitoring report has shown that only two of 11 designated NVZ sites had seen an improvement in pollution levels. And evidence from other countries is mixed, to say the least. Northern Ireland has been 100 per cent NVZ for a decade, and still, even today, their water quality is worse than ours. So, the question we really should be asking ourselves here is why is the Welsh Government adopting regulations here that aren't actually delivering elsewhere, especially when we know that there are other approaches that are having a positive impact. One such scheme is the blue flag scheme. The Minister knew about it a number of years ago but is now, very belatedly, taking an interest. That programme has been running for five years. It has succeeded in reducing, on average, the nitrates leaving the farms of those involved in the scheme by over 1 tonne per farm, and that far outweighs the NVZ modelling of achieving a 10 per cent reduction of nitrates. Why is the Welsh Government settling for a cut-and-paste approach here with NVZs, instead of building on a made-in-Wales answer, tailored to our own circumstances?

We know that NFU Cymru's lawyers have written to the Welsh Government yesterday, setting out their concerns about the lawfulness of the decision to introduce these regulations. I don't expect the Minister, obviously, to comment on that for legal reasons, but I do believe that it introduces another reason for the Welsh Government to take a step back and revisit its proposals. In the interest of achieving greater consensus and more effective legislation on this important matter, I believe that these regulations should either, for now, be withdrawn by the Government or annulled by the Senedd. If this happens, then I pledge the time and commitment of my party to work with the Government on introducing a more sophisticated and targeted set of regulations before the end of the year. We all want to tackle water pollution. We all want to get to grips with an issue that needs addressing once and for all, and we need to regulate in order to do that. But this particular set of regulations before us today, for the reasons I've outlined, is not the best way to achieve that, and I would urge Members to support my motion. Diolch.

Mae'r rheoliadau hyn yn anghymesur. Cyngor Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru—cyngor yr arbenigwyr, wrth gwrs—i Lywodraeth Cymru oedd dynodi 8 y cant o Gymru yn barth perygl nitradau. Mae'r Llywodraeth wedi anwybyddu hynny ac wedi mynd am ffigur o 100 y cant. Pam fod hynny'n broblemus? Wel, am eich bod yn cosbi pawb, y diwydiant cyfan, gyda’r gofyniad i ffermydd ym mhob rhan o Gymru, hyd yn oed y rhai nad ydynt wedi torri unrhyw reolau, mewn dalgylchoedd nad ydynt efallai wedi cael unrhyw ddigwyddiadau llygredd, dalu degau o filoedd o bunnoedd, arian nad yw ganddynt mewn gwirionedd, ar seilwaith nad yw, i rai, yn angenrheidiol pan edrychwch ar y dystiolaeth.

Bydd canlyniadau amgylcheddol anfwriadol hefyd wrth gwrs. Mae defnyddio dyddiadau’r calendr yn hytrach nag amodau tywydd i bennu pryd y gellir gwasgaru slyri yn hurt. Mynegodd y Gweinidog ei hun bryder ynghylch y dull hwn ychydig fisoedd yn ôl pan ofynnais iddi amdano. Ac mae eraill, fel yr amgylcheddwr amlwg Tony Juniper, sy'n cadeirio Natural England—mae wedi dweud nad yw hyn yn gwneud unrhyw synnwyr. Mae'n gynnig afresymol a fydd yn achosi cynnydd enfawr mewn nitradau ar adegau penodol o'r flwyddyn, a allai wedyn, wrth gwrs, arwain at broblemau llygredd newydd mewn ardaloedd lle nad oes problemau ar hyn o bryd.

Yn ôl amcangyfrifon y Llywodraeth ei hun, bydd y costau cyfalaf ymlaen llaw i’r diwydiant ffermio allu cydymffurfio â'r rheoliadau hyn rywle rhwng £109 miliwn a £360 miliwn. Mae'r £360 miliwn hwnnw £30 miliwn yn fwy na chyfanswm cyllideb polisi amaethyddol cyffredin blynyddol Cymru dros y chwe blynedd diwethaf. Mae hyd yn oed amcangyfrif isaf Llywodraeth Cymru yn nodi y byddai’r gost i ffermydd Cymru yn 42 y cant o gyfanswm incwm ffermio Cymru yn 2019. Mae llawer o ffermydd eisoes yn gweithredu ar y nesaf peth i ddim, a bydd hyn yn eu gwthio dros y dibyn. Mae colli'r ffermydd hyn yn golygu colli rhywfaint o'n capasiti cynhyrchu bwyd wrth gwrs, sy'n golygu lefelau uwch o fewnforio bwyd, gyda chost amgylcheddol bellach ynghlwm wrth hynny. Dywed un prosesydd llaeth fod eu dadansoddiad yn dangos y bydd traean o’u ffermydd llaeth o bosibl yn rhoi’r gorau i gynhyrchu. Bydd colli'r ffermydd teuluol bach a chanolig hynny’n golygu twf yn nifer yr unedau ffermio mawr, gan arwain at fwy o ffermio llaeth ar raddfa ddiwydiannol. Sawl gwaith y mae'r Aelodau yn y Senedd hon wedi dadlau yn erbyn hynny?

Wrth gwrs, nid ffermwyr yn unig fydd yn ei chael hi'n anodd dod o hyd i'r buddsoddiad cyfalaf sydd ei angen i gydymffurfio â’r rheoliadau hyn; mae 1,000 o ffermydd cyngor yng Nghymru, a bydd yn rhaid i awdurdodau lleol ddod o hyd i hyd at £36 miliwn i dalu am y seilwaith newydd angenrheidiol. Ddoe ddiwethaf, bu’n rhaid i gyllideb y Llywodraeth ddod o hyd i fwy o arian ar gyfer cronfa galedi’r awdurdodau lleol. A yw cynghorau mewn difrif yn mynd i allu dod o hyd i ddegau o filiynau o bunnoedd o arian ychwanegol, pan fo'r Llywodraeth eisoes yn gorfod camu i mewn i dalu am wasanaethau craidd? Felly, gwyddom beth fydd yn digwydd; bydd mwy o ffermydd cyngor yn cael eu gwerthu, gan leihau ymhellach y cyfle i bobl ifanc a newydd-ddyfodiaid ddechrau ffermio.

Nid yw dynodi Cymru gyfan yn barth perygl nitradau yn ateb syml. Mae adroddiad monitro gan CNC wedi dangos mai dau yn unig o 11 o safleoedd parthau perygl nitradau dynodedig sydd wedi dangos gwelliant mewn lefelau llygredd. Ac mae tystiolaeth o wledydd eraill yn gymysg, a dweud y lleiaf. Mae 100 y cant o Ogledd Iwerddon wedi bod yn barth perygl nitradau ers degawd, ond hyd yn oed heddiw, mae ansawdd eu dŵr yn salach na’n dŵr ni. Felly, y cwestiwn y dylem fod yn ei ofyn i'n hunain yma yw pam fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn mabwysiadu rheoliadau yma nad ydynt yn cyflawni canlyniadau yn rhywle arall, yn enwedig pan wyddom fod dulliau eraill yn cael effaith gadarnhaol. Un cynllun o'r fath yw cynllun y faner las. Roedd y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol ohono sawl blwyddyn yn ôl, ond mae bellach, yn hwyr iawn, yn dangos diddordeb. Mae'r rhaglen honno wedi bod ar waith ers pum mlynedd. Mae wedi llwyddo i leihau, ar gyfartaledd, dros 1 dunnell y fferm o'r nitradau sy'n gadael ffermydd y rheini sy'n rhan o'r cynllun, ac mae hynny'n llawer gwell na gwaith modelu‘r parthau perygl nitradau, sy’n nodi y gellid sicrhau gostyngiad o 10 y cant yn lefel y nitradau. Pam y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn bodloni ar ddull torri a gludo yma mewn perthynas â pharthau perygl nitradau, yn hytrach nag adeiladu ateb a wnaed yng Nghymru, wedi'i deilwra ar gyfer ein hamgylchiadau ein hunain?

Gwyddom fod cyfreithwyr NFU Cymru wedi ysgrifennu at Lywodraeth Cymru ddoe, yn nodi eu pryderon ynghylch cyfreithlondeb y penderfyniad i gyflwyno'r rheoliadau hyn. Yn amlwg, nid wyf yn disgwyl i'r Gweinidog wneud sylwadau ar hynny am resymau cyfreithiol, ond credaf ei fod yn rhoi rheswm arall i Lywodraeth Cymru gymryd cam yn ôl ac ailedrych ar ei chynigion. Er mwyn sicrhau mwy o gonsensws a deddfwriaeth fwy effeithiol ar y mater pwysig hwn, credaf y dylai'r rheoliadau hyn, am y tro, gael eu tynnu'n ôl gan y Llywodraeth neu eu dirymu gan y Senedd. Os bydd hyn yn digwydd, rwy’n addo amser ac ymrwymiad fy mhlaid i weithio gyda’r Llywodraeth ar gyflwyno set fwy soffistigedig o reoliadau wedi’u targedu cyn diwedd y flwyddyn. Mae pob un ohonom eisiau mynd i'r afael â llygredd dŵr. Mae pob un ohonom eisiau mynd i’r afael â phroblem y mae angen mynd i’r afael â hi unwaith ac am byth, ac mae angen inni reoleiddio er mwyn gwneud hynny. Ond nid y set benodol hon o reoliadau sydd ger ein bron heddiw, am y rhesymau rwyf wedi'u hamlinellu, yw'r ffordd orau o gyflawni hynny, ac rwy'n annog yr Aelodau i gefnogi fy nghynnig. Diolch.

15:30

Thank you. I call Mick Antoniw, as Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. Mick Antoniw.

Diolch. Galwaf ar Mick Antoniw, fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Deddfwriaeth, Cyfiawnder a'r Cyfansoddiad. Mick Antoniw.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. We considered these regulations at our meeting on 22 February 2021, and in doing so we noted that the motion being debated today had already been tabled. Our report contained only one merits point, which I will briefly outline for Members.

Regulation 30 of the regulations enables the Natural Resources Body for Wales to serve a notice requiring a person to carry out works or take precautions or other steps, as specified in the notice. Appeals against regulation 30 notices can be made to the Welsh Ministers. Where such an appeal is made, regulation 31(6) provides that the period for compliance is subject to any direction made by the Welsh Ministers, and such a direction can include an extension to that period.

We consider this to be important because, where the Welsh Ministers determine that works, precautions or other steps are required, there appear to be circumstances where appellants are obligated to undertake such action on the same day as the result of their appeal is known. This may mean that appellants are unable to comply in time with the determination. If our assessment is correct, then the power for the Welsh Ministers to extend the period for compliance is important to reduce the risk of this occurring.

We asked the Welsh Government to respond to our assessment. The Government has confirmed that, when deciding whether or not to exercise their discretion-making power, the Welsh Ministers will be subject to their public law duty to act reasonably. The Government’s response to our report also states that the mechanism provides appellants with a sufficient safeguard from having to undertake works or take action within an inadequate time frame once the result of their appeal is known. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Gwnaethom ystyried y rheoliadau hyn yn ein cyfarfod ar 22 Chwefror 2021, ac wrth wneud hynny nodwyd bod y cynnig a drafodir heddiw eisoes wedi'i gyflwyno. Un pwynt teilyngdod a gynhwyswyd yn ein hadroddiad, ac fe amlinellaf hwnnw'n fyr ar gyfer yr Aelodau.

Mae rheoliad 30 o'r rheoliadau yn galluogi Corff Adnoddau Naturiol Cymru i gyflwyno hysbysiad sy'n ei gwneud yn ofynnol i berson wneud gwaith neu gymryd rhagofalon neu gamau eraill, fel a bennir yn yr hysbysiad. Gellir apelio i Weinidogion Cymru yn erbyn hysbysiadau rheoliad 30. Pan wneir apêl o'r fath, mae rheoliad 31(6) yn datgan bod y cyfnod cydymffurfio yn ddarostyngedig i unrhyw gyfarwyddyd a wneir gan Weinidogion Cymru, a gall cyfarwyddyd o'r fath gynnwys estyniad i'r cyfnod hwnnw.

Credwn fod hyn yn bwysig oherwydd, pan fo Gweinidogion Cymru yn penderfynu bod angen gwaith, rhagofalon neu gamau eraill, mae'n ymddangos bod amgylchiadau lle mae'n ofynnol i apelyddion gymryd camau o'r fath ar yr un diwrnod ag y daw canlyniad eu hapêl yn hysbys. Gall hyn olygu nad yw apelwyr yn gallu cydymffurfio â'r penderfyniad mewn pryd. Os yw ein hasesiad yn gywir, mae'r pŵer i Weinidogion Cymru ymestyn y cyfnod cydymffurfio yn bwysig er mwyn lleihau'r risg y bydd hyn yn digwydd.

Gofynasom i Lywodraeth Cymru ymateb i'n hasesiad. Mae'r Llywodraeth wedi cadarnhau, wrth benderfynu a ddylent arfer eu pŵer i arfer disgresiwn ai peidio, y bydd Gweinidogion Cymru yn ddarostyngedig i'w dyletswydd cyfraith gyhoeddus i weithredu'n rhesymol. Mae ymateb y Llywodraeth i'n hadroddiad hefyd yn nodi bod y mecanwaith yn darparu amddiffyniad digonol i apelyddion rhag gorfod gwneud gwaith neu weithredu o fewn amserlen annigonol pan ddaw canlyniad eu hapêl yn hysbys. Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd.

I thank my colleague, Llyr Gruffydd, for bringing forward this motion to annul the Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) Regulations 2021. And this, of course, follows on the Welsh Conservative debate from last week, where, it's fair to say, the vote was very close indeed. Now, Minister, I've asked you, we've debated, we've discussed, both in the Chamber and in committee. We've asked you to do exactly what Llyr Gruffydd has said—either to annul, or certainly come to some other conclusions, and please do not penalise our farmers in this way.

Now, as you stated to me in the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee last month, what you have to understand is many, many farmers don't pollute. So, how then do you think that those many, many farmers now feel, knowing that you are: one, punishing them with regulations that are not proportionate; two, offering as little as 3.6 per cent of the funding needed to cover the upfront capital costs; three, pushing them towards a situation in which they could be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction, or on conviction, on indictment to a fine? Why have you chosen not to respond to recommendations by the Wales Land Management Forum sub-group on agricultural pollution, including 4.4, which specifically calls for exploring the most effective means to deliver nutrient management, planning at scale and pace, and 4.11, which calls for a review into funding?

Implementing the 30-year-old European Union nitrates directive, despite Brexit, is unnecessary and totally out of order. Evidence from Natural Resources Wales shows that the area of land should be 8 per cent, not 100 per cent. The WLMF sub-group promised to work on identifying existing products that may assist with pollution reduction, such as weed wipers, precision feed management, scrubbers, smart rinsing systems, absorption systems, slurry separators in field troughs, riparian fencing, and reed beds—all reasonable measures that could be taken instead. You could be backing the blue flag farmer-led partnership approach, and responding to the draft water framework and water standard, shared with you in March 2020.

According to the explanatory memorandum, there is potential for a negative impact on mental well-being for our farmers. They are facing desperation for the long-term viability of their businesses, their family homes, and our food supply. Mental health concerns in the sector are rocketing, so why are you introducing the regulations despite the mental health warning in your own explanatory memorandum? Glanbia Cheese has highlighted serious concerns about the impact of the regulations on the security of milk supply in Wales. NFU Cymru's lawyers have written setting out their concerns about the lawfulness of this decision. We should all today, Members, be voting for annulment, as the regulations are set to damage our Welsh farms and the well-being of communities. I cannot be the only Senedd Member to have received hundreds and hundreds of desperate e-mails from our farming community. I would ask on this occasion to listen to them, all of your constituents, listen to them. Minister, I say to you, as I said last week: it takes a big person to say, 'Do you know what? I got this wrong.' Indeed, you have got it wrong—

Diolch i fy nghyd-Aelod, Llyr Gruffydd, am gyflwyno'r cynnig hwn i ddirymu Rheoliadau Adnoddau Dŵr (Rheoli Llygredd Amaethyddol) (Cymru) 2021. Ac mae hyn, wrth gwrs, yn dilyn dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yr wythnos diwethaf, ac mae'n deg dweud bod y bleidlais yn y ddadl honno'n agos iawn wir. Nawr, Weinidog, rwyf wedi gofyn i chi, rydym wedi dadlau, rydym wedi trafod, yn y Siambr ac yn y pwyllgor. Rydym wedi gofyn i chi wneud yn union yr hyn y mae Llyr Gruffydd wedi'i ddweud—naill ai dirymu, neu i ddod i gasgliadau eraill yn sicr, a pheidio â chosbi ein ffermwyr fel hyn.

Nawr, fel y dywedoch chi wrthyf yn y Pwyllgor Newid Hinsawdd, Amgylchedd a Materion Gwledig fis diwethaf, yr hyn y mae'n rhaid ichi ei ddeall yw bod llawer iawn o ffermwyr nad ydynt yn llygru. Felly, sut rydych yn credu y mae'r nifer fawr o ffermwyr hynny bellach yn teimlo, gan wybod eich bod: un, yn eu cosbi gyda rheoliadau nad ydynt yn gymesur; dau, yn cynnig cyn lleied â 3.6 y cant o'r arian sydd ei angen i dalu'r costau cyfalaf ymlaen llaw; tri, yn eu gwthio i sefyllfa lle gallent fod yn euog o drosedd ac yn agored ar euogfarn ddiannod, neu ar gollfarn, ar dditiad i ddirwy? Pam eich bod wedi dewis peidio ag ymateb i argymhellion is-grŵp Fforwm Rheoli Tir Cymru ar lygredd amaethyddol, gan gynnwys 4.4, sy'n galw'n benodol am archwilio'r dulliau mwyaf effeithiol o reoli maethynnau, cynllunio ar raddfa fawr a chyflymder, a 4.11, sy'n galw am adolygiad o gyllid?

Mae gweithredu cyfarwyddeb nitradau 30 mlwydd oed yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, er gwaethaf Brexit, yn ddiangen ac yn gwbl annerbyniol. Dengys tystiolaeth gan Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru y dylai arwynebedd y tir fod yn 8 y cant, nid 100 y cant. Addawodd is-grŵp Fforwm Rheoli Tir Cymru weithio ar nodi cynhyrchion sy'n bodoli eisoes a allai helpu i leihau llygredd, megis weed wipers, rheoli porthiant manwl, sgwrwyr, systemau rinsio clyfar, systemau amsugno, gwahanyddion slyri mewn cafnau caeau, ffensys glannau afon a gwelyau cyrs—pob mesur rhesymol y gellid ei gymryd yn lle hynny. Gallech fod yn cefnogi dull y faner las, sef dull partneriaeth o dan arweiniad ffermwyr, ac ymateb i'r fframwaith dŵr drafft a'r safon dŵr, a rannwyd gyda chi ym mis Mawrth 2020.

Yn ôl y memorandwm esboniadol, mae potensial am effaith negyddol ar les meddyliol ein ffermwyr. Maent yn wynebu anobaith ynghylch hyfywedd hirdymor eu busnesau, eu cartrefi teuluol, a'n cyflenwad bwyd. Mae pryderon iechyd meddwl yn y sector yn cynyddu'n gyflym, felly pam rydych yn cyflwyno'r rheoliadau er gwaethaf y rhybudd iechyd meddwl yn eich memorandwm esboniadol eich hun? Mae Caws Glanbia wedi tynnu sylw at bryderon difrifol am effaith y rheoliadau ar ddiogelwch y cyflenwad llaeth yng Nghymru. Mae cyfreithwyr Undeb Cenedlaethol Amaethwyr Cymru wedi nodi eu pryderon ynghylch cyfreithlondeb y penderfyniad hwn. Dylai pawb ohonom bleidleisio o blaid dirymu heddiw, Aelodau, gan fod y rheoliadau'n debygol o niweidio ffermydd Cymru a llesiant cymunedau. Does bosibl mai fi yw'r unig Aelod o'r Senedd sydd wedi cael cannoedd a channoedd o negeseuon e-bost gofidus oddi wrth ein cymuned ffermio. Hoffwn ofyn ichi wrando arnynt hwy y tro hwn, pob un o'ch etholwyr, gwrandewch arnynt. Weinidog, rwy'n dweud wrthych, fel y dywedais yr wythnos diwethaf: mae'n cymryd person mawr i ddweud, 'Wyddoch chi beth? Roeddwn i'n anghywir ynglŷn â hyn.' Yn wir, rydych chi yn anghywir—

15:35

Okay. You have got it wrong. Reverse this decision today. Diolch. 

Iawn. Rydych chi'n anghywir. Gwrth-drowch y penderfyniad hwn heddiw. Diolch.

I and my group shall be supporting the Plaid motion. In my five years as a Member of the Senedd, I have never had so many e-mails on any subject. Not only were the correspondents against these measures, they were desperate to have them annulled, because they literally feared for their livelihoods should they become law. 

Much of my contribution to this debate will duplicate the facts, figures and arguments I put forward in last week's Conservative debate, but I make no apologies for that because all of them withstand being reiterated. Again, the whole of the Welsh farming industry, unions, organisations, and farmers themselves, believe these regulations, implementing a blanket set of slurry regulations for the whole of the Welsh farming industry, are totally disproportionate, both in cost and implementation, to the problem. This is especially true given that the voluntary code now in place has seen a 24 per cent reduction in pollution incidences over the last few years. These proposals are scant reward for the huge effort put in by the entire farming industry. One pollution incident may be one too many, but attempting to halt the pollution by harming the farming industry as a whole is not the solution. It is a simple fact that many farmers will go out of existence because they will be unable to afford the cost of implementation.

This is particularly true for our already struggling upland farms. I am in receipt of a letter from Dylan Jones, milk procurement officer for Glanbia Cheese, the biggest mozzarella cheese producer in Europe, based at Llangefni. They use 300 million litres of milk a year, almost all from Welsh farmers. He states that he feels that these regulations will put many of his suppliers out of business, meaning they will have to source their milk elsewhere. The figure set aside—£22 million for the whole of Wales—is totally inadequate for the scale of investment needed, given the Government's own figures put upfront, full capital costs at £360 million. The farming industry is in the middle of a huge upheaval, with Brexit and the disruption caused by COVID. How does the Government expect farmers to cope with this massive extra expense?

Cost benefits over the next 20 years are estimated at £300 million, against an investment of £800 million. How can this be justified when only 113 of 953 catchment areas are failing? Surely, a far more cost-effective way would be to target these areas. Should these draconian measures go forward, we shall see many of our already impoverished farmers fail. The Minister says she's engaged with the farming industry, but the industry says almost all of their input has been ignored. I repeat again: British farmers are the most hard-working, innovative farmers in Europe, whose husbandry standards are second to none. Brexit creates a huge opportunity for our farmers to fill the gap in the food chain. I am sure they will, as always, rise to the challenge. It means we will be eating better produced and more wholesome foods. The Welsh Government should be doing everything to help the industry, not creating obstacles to their survival. I urge the Labour Members to show personal moral courage, not a slavish adherence to Government policy, and vote in support of this motion. It is bad legislation. You should back the farming industry, and not indulge in party politics. The stakes for the farming industry are far too high. And, in particular, I urge Kirsty Williams and Dafydd Elis-Thomas to vote against these draconian proposals. Thank you. 

Byddaf fi a fy ngrŵp yn cefnogi cynnig Plaid Cymru. Yn ystod fy mhum mlynedd fel Aelod o'r Senedd, nid wyf erioed wedi cael cynifer o negeseuon e-bost ar unrhyw bwnc. Nid yn unig fod y gohebwyr yn erbyn y mesurau hyn, roeddent yn daer iawn am eu dirymu, oherwydd roeddent yn poeni beth fyddai'n digwydd i'w bywoliaeth pe baent yn dod yn gyfraith.

Bydd llawer o fy nghyfraniad i'r ddadl hon yn dyblygu'r ffeithiau, y ffigurau a'r dadleuon a gyflwynwyd gennyf yn nadl y Ceidwadwyr yr wythnos diwethaf, ond nid wyf yn ymddiheuro am hynny oherwydd mae pob un ohonynt yn haeddu cael eu hailadrodd. Unwaith eto, mae'r diwydiant ffermio cyfan yng Nghymru, undebau, sefydliadau a ffermwyr eu hunain, yn credu bod y rheoliadau hyn, sy'n gweithredu set gyffredinol o reoliadau slyri ar gyfer diwydiant ffermio Cymru yn ei gyfanrwydd, yn gwbl anghymesur â'r broblem o ran cost a gweithrediad. Mae hyn yn arbennig o wir o gofio bod y cod gwirfoddol sydd bellach ar waith wedi arwain at ostyngiad o 24 y cant yn nifer yr achosion o lygredd dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Nid yw'r cynigion hyn yn fawr o wobr am yr ymdrech enfawr a wnaed gan bawb yn y diwydiant ffermio. Efallai fod un digwyddiad llygredd yn un digwyddiad yn ormod, ond nid ceisio atal y llygredd drwy niweidio'r diwydiant ffermio yn ei gyfanrwydd yw'r ateb. Mae'n ffaith syml y bydd llawer o ffermwyr yn gorfod rhoi'r gorau iddi oherwydd na fyddant yn gallu fforddio'r gost o weithredu.

Mae hyn yn arbennig o wir am ein ffermydd mynydd sydd eisoes mewn trafferthion. Rwy'n disgwyl llythyr gan Dylan Jones, swyddog caffael llaeth ar gyfer Caws Glanbia, y cynhyrchydd caws mozzarella mwyaf yn Ewrop, sydd wedi'i leoli yn Llangefni. Maent yn defnyddio 300 miliwn litr o laeth y flwyddyn, a daw'r cyfan, bron, gan ffermwyr Cymru. Dywed ei fod yn teimlo y bydd y rheoliadau hyn yn arwain at fethiant llawer o'i gyflenwyr, sy'n golygu y bydd yn rhaid iddynt ddod o hyd i'w llaeth o fannau eraill. Mae'r ffigur a neilltuwyd—£22 miliwn ar gyfer Cymru gyfan—yn gwbl annigonol ar gyfer maint y buddsoddiad sydd ei angen, o gofio bod ffigurau a nodwyd gan y Llywodraeth ei hun yn nodi costau cyfalaf llawn ymlaen llaw o £360 miliwn. Mae'r diwydiant ffermio ynghanol newid enfawr, gyda Brexit a'r aflonyddwch a achosir gan COVID. Sut y mae'r Llywodraeth yn disgwyl i ffermwyr ymdopi â'r gost ychwanegol enfawr hon?

Amcangyfrifir mai £300 miliwn yw'r ffigur cost a budd dros yr 20 mlynedd nesaf, yn erbyn buddsoddiad o £800 miliwn. Sut y gellir cyfiawnhau hyn pan nad oes ond 113 o 953 dalgylch yn methu? Does bosibl na fyddai targedu'r ardaloedd hyn yn llawer mwy costeffeithiol. Os bydd y mesurau llym hyn yn mynd rhagddynt, byddwn yn gweld llawer o'n ffermwyr sydd eisoes yn dlawd yn methu. Dywed y Gweinidog ei bod wedi ymgysylltu â'r diwydiant ffermio, ond mae'r diwydiant yn dweud bod bron bopeth a ddywedant wedi cael ei anwybyddu. Rwy'n ailadrodd eto: ffermwyr Prydain yw'r ffermwyr mwyaf gweithgar ac arloesol yn Ewrop, ac mae eu safonau hwsmonaeth yn well nag yn unman arall. Mae Brexit yn creu cyfle enfawr i'n ffermwyr lenwi'r bwlch yn y gadwyn fwyd. Rwy'n siŵr y byddant yn ymateb i'r her, fel bob amser. Mae'n golygu y byddwn yn bwyta bwydydd mwy iachus sydd wedi'u cynhyrchu'n well. Dylai Llywodraeth Cymru fod yn gwneud popeth i helpu'r diwydiant, yn hytrach na chreu rhwystrau i'w hatal rhag goroesi. Rwy'n annog yr Aelodau Llafur i ddangos dewrder moesol personol, nid ymlyniad gwasaidd at bolisi'r Llywodraeth, a phleidleisio o blaid y cynnig hwn. Mae'n ddeddfwriaeth wael. Dylech gefnogi'r diwydiant ffermio, a pheidio ag ymroi i wleidyddiaeth plaid. Mae'r cyfan yn y fantol i'r diwydiant ffermio. Ac yn arbennig, rwy'n annog Kirsty Williams a Dafydd Elis-Thomas i bleidleisio yn erbyn y cynigion llym hyn. Diolch. 

I'm not going to engage in any party politics on this, but what I am going to do is express some of the thought that I've given this matter, and some of the views that have been expressed to me by constituents as well. But, first of all, I want to thank the National Farmers Union and the Farmers' Union of Wales for meeting with me last week. We had an hour-long meeting, and we've been in dialogue last year about this issue, and it's undoubtedly the case that there is very real concern in the farming community about these regulations, particularly with regard to the need to keep a nutrient management plan, the limitations on spreading, which will require storage facilities that some farms are concerned—particularly small farms who cannot absorb the cost—about the facilities that they will need in order to store slurry. Now, I've raised this, as a result of those conversations with Welsh Government, and I've had a response, which I'd like the Minister to elaborate on in her answer to this debate. 

First of all, she said—sorry, the Welsh Government response said—that the requirements in the regulations are basic and do not require soil testing, which you have to do in Scotland, and are compatible with nutrient management software routinely used by the industry. Standard values for nutrient content of manures are provided and there are step-by-step tools available. Much more sophisticated forms of nutrient management may be something that the sustainable farming scheme can provide. There's no need to employ consultants, particularly on small farms, because the Farming Connect Advisory Service can provide expert independent and bespoke advice, for which there is also, through Farming Connect, funding available. 

And the other issue I raised was regarding the spread of the slurry, in which they said that storage in a small farm is not necessary in all circumstances, as you can treat it as manure, which is still permitted to be spread under the new regulations. Those periods do not apply to farmyard manure, which can be stored in field heap, subject to certain conditions to minimise pollution risk. If they're producing larger volumes of slurry, then, this would be a significant pollution risk and would not be compliant with current regulations. 

Now, that's the response I've had with regard to concerns I've raised with the Welsh Government. I'd like the Minister to be able to tell us that, should the concerns that have been raised by the previous speakers come to fruition, there will be flexibility within the plan to address that, and provide support for those farmers who may be unduly affected in ways that the Welsh Government hasn't considered in their answer to me. 

So, it's been something I've considered very, very carefully, and I need to come back to my constituency. There's an industrial size dairy farm in Gelligaer, in my constituency. It's an enormous farm, and there have been reports—. You've probably seen in WalesOnline a report that said Gelligaer is the village that stinks all-year round. Now, I know this is related to river pollution, but, nonetheless, odour is a huge issue with regard to spreading. I've had meetings with residents and NRW. NRW said to me that—. When I've gone to them before, they've said, 'We simply haven't got the powers to deal with this. There's a strong and offensive odour in Gelligaer, and we haven't got the powers to deal with this.' When I spoke to NRW last week, they said that this will give them the powers to deal with it; this will give them the powers. In fact, what they said is they would go further, and have a phosphate plan included in it too. The Government isn't going that far. 

People in Gelligaer, Penybryn, Nelson and Ystrad Mynach have suffered too long with issues related to that farm in Gelligaer, and it is the regulations that are at fault, not the farm, and we need stronger regulations in those circumstances. So, in those circumstances, I would be calling for an NVZ for my area, for that community. People of Gelligaer, Ystrad Mynach, Nelson and Penybryn want more farming regulations, not less. They want more regulating of activity, not less, because what they are seeing at the moment is not enough powers to deal with the concerns that they've got— 

Nid wyf am ymroi i wleidyddiaeth plaid ar hyn, ond yr hyn rwyf am ei wneud yw mynegi rhywfaint o'r meddwl rwyf wedi'i wneud ar y mater hwn, a rhai o'r safbwyntiau a fynegwyd wrthyf gan etholwyr hefyd. Ond yn gyntaf oll, hoffwn ddiolch i Undeb Cenedlaethol yr Amaethwyr ac Undeb Amaethwyr Cymru am gyfarfod â mi yr wythnos diwethaf. Cawsom gyfarfod awr o hyd, ac rydym wedi bod mewn trafodaethau ar y mater hwn y llynedd, ac mae'n sicr bod pryder gwirioneddol yn y gymuned ffermio mewn perthynas â'r rheoliadau hyn, yn enwedig o ran yr angen i gadw cynllun rheoli maethynnau, y cyfyngiadau ar wasgaru, a fydd galw am gyfleusterau storio y mae rhai ffermydd yn pryderu y byddant eu hangen i storio slyri—yn enwedig ffermydd bach na allant amsugno'r gost. Nawr, rwyf wedi codi hyn, o ganlyniad i'r sgyrsiau hynny gyda Llywodraeth Cymru, ac rwyf wedi cael ymateb, a hoffwn i'r Gweinidog ymhelaethu arno yn ei hateb i'r ddadl hon. 

Yn gyntaf oll, dywedodd ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru fod y gofynion yn y rheoliadau yn sylfaenol ac nad oes angen cynnal profion pridd, fel y mae'n rhaid  ei wneud yn yr Alban, a'u bod yn gydnaws â meddalwedd rheoli maethynnau a ddefnyddir gan y diwydiant fel mater o drefn. Darperir gwerthoedd safonol ar gyfer cynnwys maethynnol tail ac mae offer cam wrth gam ar gael. Gall dulliau llawer mwy soffistigedig o reoli maethynnau fod yn rhywbeth y gall y cynllun ffermio cynaliadwy ei ddarparu. Nid oes angen cyflogi ymgynghorwyr, yn enwedig ar ffermydd bach, oherwydd gall Gwasanaeth Cynghori Cyswllt Ffermio ddarparu cyngor annibynnol pwrpasol ac arbenigol, ac mae cyllid ar gael ar gyfer hynny hefyd drwy Cyswllt Ffermio. 

Ac roedd y mater arall a godais yn ymwneud â gwasgaru'r slyri, lle dywedasant nad oes angen storio ar fferm fach ym mhob amgylchiad, gan y gallwch ei drin fel tail, y caniateir ei wasgaru o hyd o dan y rheoliadau newydd. Nid yw'r cyfnodau hynny'n berthnasol i dail buarth, y gellir ei storio mewn cae, yn ddarostyngedig i amodau penodol ar gyfer lleihau'r risg o lygredd. Os ydynt yn cynhyrchu mwy o slyri, byddai hyn yn risg sylweddol o lygredd ac ni fyddai'n cydymffurfio â'r rheoliadau presennol. 

Nawr, dyna'r ymateb rwyf wedi'i gael ynghylch pryderon rwyf wedi'u dwyn i sylw Llywodraeth Cymru. Hoffwn pe bai'r Gweinidog yn gallu dweud wrthym, pe bai'r pryderon a fynegwyd gan y siaradwyr blaenorol yn cael eu gwireddu, y bydd hyblygrwydd o fewn y cynllun i fynd i'r afael â hynny, a rhoi cymorth i'r ffermwyr a allai gael eu heffeithio'n ormodol mewn ffyrdd nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'u hystyried yn eu hateb i mi. 

Felly, mae wedi bod yn rhywbeth rwyf wedi'i ystyried yn ofalus iawn, ac mae angen i mi ddod yn ôl at fy etholaeth. Mae fferm laeth o faint diwydiannol yng Ngelli-gaer yn fy etholaeth i. Mae'n fferm enfawr, a chafwyd adroddiadau—. Mae'n debyg eich bod wedi gweld adroddiad ar WalesOnline a oedd yn dweud mai Gelli-gaer yw'r pentref sy'n drewi drwy gydol y flwyddyn. Nawr, gwn fod hyn yn gysylltiedig â llygredd afonydd, ond er hynny, mae arogleuon yn broblem enfawr mewn perthynas â gwasgaru slyri. Rwyf wedi cael cyfarfodydd gyda thrigolion ac CNC. Dywedodd CNC wrthyf—. Pan siaradais â hwy o'r blaen, roeddent yn dweud, 'Nid oes gennym bwerau i ymdrin â hyn. Mae arogl cryf ac annymunol yng Ngelli-gaer, ac nid oes gennym bwerau i ymdrin â hyn.' Pan siaradais ag CNC yr wythnos diwethaf, roeddent yn dweud y bydd y rheoliadau hyn yn rhoi pwerau iddynt ymdrin â hynny; bydd hyn yn rhoi'r pwerau iddynt. Yn wir, roeddent yn dweud y byddent yn mynd ymhellach, a sicrhau bod cynllun ffosffad wedi'i gynnwys ynddo hefyd. Nid yw'r Llywodraeth yn mynd mor bell â hynny. 

Mae pobl yng Ngelli-gaer, Pen-y-bryn, Nelson ac Ystrad Mynach wedi dioddef yn rhy hir gyda phroblemau'n ymwneud â'r fferm honno yng Ngelli-gaer, a'r rheoliadau sydd ar fai, nid y fferm, ac mae angen rheoliadau cryfach arnom o dan yr amgylchiadau hynny. Felly, o dan yr amgylchiadau hynny, byddwn yn galw am barth perygl nitradau ar gyfer fy ardal i, ar gyfer y gymuned honno. Mae pobl Gelli-gaer, Ystrad Mynach, Nelson a Phen-y-bryn eisiau mwy o reoliadau ffermio, nid llai. Maent eisiau mwy o reoleiddio gweithgarwch, nid llai, oherwydd nid oes ganddynt ddigon o bwerau ar hyn o bryd i ymdrin â'r pryderon sydd ganddynt— 

15:40

The Member needs to wind up, please. 

Mae angen i'r Aelod ddirwyn i ben, os gwelwch yn dda.

—about activities in their community. So, with that in mind, it's been a difficult decision to take, but in the circumstances in my community, that I have seen at first hand, I have to support these regulations.

—ynglŷn â gweithgarwch yn eu cymuned. Felly, gyda hynny mewn golwg, mae wedi bod yn benderfyniad anodd i'w wneud, ond o dan yr amgylchiadau yn fy nghymuned i, amgylchiadau a welais drosof fy hun, mae'n rhaid imi gefnogi'r rheoliadau hyn.

May I thank all the very many correspondents, many farmers, that I have heard from on this subject? I find perhaps the most shocking aspect of this is the number of times that the Minister promised, on the record and in this place, that she would not be bringing forward these sorts of NVZ proposals until the COVID pandemic had finished. Yet, here she is doing it. Surely that is just a breach of promise, unless there's something I have misunderstood here, but I just think that is a shocking betrayal of what had been promised. 

I'm also quite struck by how she's treated NRW. We've spent vast amounts on this organisation, which is supposedly arm's length and giving her advice, and it's done this big report, lots of work behind it, and says, 'We should increase the area of Wales covered from 2.5 per cent to around 8 per cent.' Yet, here she is going to 100 per cent. What's the point of having this body, given the way she's treated it? 

Now, I want to cite one correspondent in particular, who farms to the west of Hay-on-Wye, for 45 years as a dairy farmer, a former Dairy Farmer of the Year and Grassland Farmer of the Year. And one point he makes to me is that, on his farm, he's managed to reduce the use of chemical fertiliser by 20 per cent over the past 10 years by more timely application of slurry. And he also emphasises the increased costs of a five-month storage period and the extra burden of record keeping, which he pleads for us not to underestimate. Perhaps it's easy for us in Government or politics—extra forms to fill in perhaps aren't that big a job, but for those who have different businesses and aren't that way inclined or have the desire to do that it really is a very significant burden, and I think we need to understand that.

The main reason I want to quote this particular correspondent is that he has a son who farms in Somerset, and there are two catchments there. One is an NVZ and one isn't, and it depends on the level of pollution what's required. And the one that is has an upper tributary that was taken out of the NVZ when there were improvements. Why can't we have have a system like that, that's sensitive to local needs, rather than a one-size-fits-all policy across Wales, just to be different from England and contrary to the promises that were made? We see, across our border, that I think 58 per cent of areas get this type of treatment, but they also have the possibility of applying to increase the amount of slurry that can be spread from 170 kg to 240 kg or 250 kg per hectare, depending on the area and depending on whether that's appropriate given the environment at the time. Surely, we'd be much better off with that sensitivity to local needs, rather than this blunderbuss policy that is across the whole of Wales.

We heard last week from Jenny Rathbone, saying that you can't regulate a butcher's shop differently on one side to another. How on earth is that a comparison that says therefore you cannot regulate anything except the whole of Wales as one unit? And also I felt from her remarks, and some others that we've had from the Labour side, that the real objective of this is to push cattle off the land, and it's about climate change and reducing emissions and Labour not understanding and not supporting our farmers. I think it is wrong to bring this NVZ in across the whole of Wales. We should have a more proportionate approach, like that the UK Government takes, and I think we should vote for this motion to annul and that's what my party, the Abolish the Welsh Assembly Party, will be doing.

A gaf fi ddiolch i'r nifer o bobl sydd wedi gohebu â mi, nifer o ffermwyr, y clywais ganddynt ar y pwnc hwn? Efallai mai'r agwedd fwyaf brawychus ar hyn yw'r nifer o weithiau yr addawodd y Gweinidog, ar gofnod ac yn y lle hwn, na fyddai'n cyflwyno'r mathau hyn o gynigion ynghylch parth perygl nitradau nes bod y pandemig COVID wedi dod i ben. Ac eto, dyma hi'n gwneud hynny. Mae wedi torri addewid, oni bai fy mod wedi camddeall rhywbeth yma, ond rwy'n credu bod hyn yn bradychu'r hyn a addawyd mewn modd brawychus.

Rwyf hefyd wedi fy nharo gan y ffordd y mae wedi trin CNC. Rydym wedi gwario symiau enfawr ar y sefydliad hwn, sydd i fod yn gorff hyd braich i roi cyngor iddi, ac mae hwnnw wedi gwneud adroddiad mawr, gyda llawer o waith yn sail iddo, sy'n dweud, 'Dylem gynyddu'r arwynebedd yng Nghymru o 2.5 y cant i tua 8 y cant.' Ac eto, yma mae hi'n ei godi i 100 y cant. Beth yw diben cael y corff hwn, o ystyried y ffordd y mae hi wedi'i drin? 

Nawr, hoffwn ddyfynnu un o'r rhai sydd wedi gohebu â mi, rhywun sydd wedi bod yn rhedeg fferm laeth ers 45 mlynedd i'r gorllewin o'r Gelli Gandryll, ac sydd wedi ennill gwobrau Ffermwr Llaeth y Flwyddyn a Ffermwr Glaswelltir y Flwyddyn yn y gorffennol. Ac un pwynt y mae'n ei wneud yw ei fod, ar ei fferm, wedi llwyddo i leihau'r defnydd o wrtaith cemegol 20 y cant dros y 10 mlynedd diwethaf drwy ddefnyddio slyri'n fwy amserol. Ac mae hefyd yn pwysleisio costau cynyddol cyfnod storio o bum mis a'r baich ychwanegol o gadw cofnodion, rhywbeth y mae'n erfyn arnom i beidio â'i ddiystyru. Efallai ei bod yn hawdd i ni mewn Llywodraeth neu wleidyddiaeth—efallai nad yw llenwi ffurflenni ychwanegol yn waith mor galed â hynny, ond i'r rheini sydd â busnesau gwahanol ac nad ydynt wedi arfer gwneud hynny, neu nad ydynt yn hoffi gwneud hynny, mae'n faich sylweddol iawn, ac rwy'n credu bod angen inni ddeall hynny.

Y prif reswm rwyf eisiau dyfynnu'r unigolyn penodol hwn yw bod ganddo fab sy'n ffermio yng Ngwlad yr Haf, ac mae dau ddalgylch yno. Mae un yn barth perygl nitradau ond nid yw'r llall, ac mae'r hyn sydd angen ei wneud yn dibynnu ar lefel y llygredd. Ac mae gan y dalgylch sy'n barth perygl nitradau is-afon yn y rhan uchaf a dynnwyd allan o'r parth pan gafodd  gwelliannau eu gwneud. Pam na allwn gael system fel honno, sy'n sensitif i anghenion lleol, yn hytrach nag un polisi i bawb ledled Cymru, ddim ond i fod yn wahanol i Loegr ac yn groes i'r addewidion a wnaed? Dros ein ffin, gwelwn fod 58 y cant o ardaloedd yn cael eu trin yn y ffordd hon, ond mae'n bosibl hefyd iddynt wneud cais i gynyddu faint o slyri y gellir ei wasgaru o 170 kg i 240 kg neu 250 kg yr hectar, yn dibynnu ar yr ardal ac yn dibynnu a yw hynny'n briodol o ystyried yr amgylchedd ar y pryd. Does bosibl na fyddem yn llawer gwell ein byd gyda sensitifrwydd o'r fath i anghenion lleol, yn hytrach na'r polisi lletchwith hwn ledled Cymru gyfan.

Clywsom gan Jenny Rathbone yr wythnos diwethaf yn dweud na allwch reoleiddio siop gigydd yn wahanol ar un ochr i'r hyn a wnewch ar yr ochr arall. Sut ar y ddaear y mae honno'n gymhariaeth sy'n dweud felly bod yn rhaid rheoleiddio Cymru gyfan fel un uned? Ac roeddwn yn teimlo, o'i sylwadau, a rhai eraill a gawsom gan Aelodau'r Blaid Lafur, mai gwir amcan hyn yw gwthio gwartheg oddi ar y tir, ac mae'n ymwneud â newid hinsawdd a lleihau allyriadau a'r ffaith nad yw'r Blaid Lafur yn deall nac yn cefnogi ein ffermwyr. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn anghywir sefydlu'r parth perygl nitradau hwn ar draws Cymru gyfan. Dylem gael dull mwy cymesur, fel y mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi'i fabwysiadu, a chredaf y dylem bleidleisio dros y cynnig hwn i ddirymu a dyna fydd fy mhlaid i, Plaid Diddymu Cynulliad Cymru, yn ei wneud.

15:45

Thank you. Can I now call the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs, Lesley Griffths?

Diolch. A gaf fi alw ar Weinidog yr Amgylchedd, Ynni a Materion Gwledig, Lesley Griffths?

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Achieving a greener Wales will rely on the commitment and expertise of our farmers. They have a unique role in producing high-quality food at the same time as protecting habitat, safeguarding our irreplaceable soils, capturing carbon and cleaning our air and water for the benefit of human health and, of course, the health of our planet. The need we see for these agricultural pollution regulations reflects our commitment to fairness. It is a matter of fairness for future generations, so that they will not be denied access to their natural heritage, which we are entrusted to protect. It is a matter of fairness to those farmers who already go above and beyond the requirements of regulation, earning the sector its reputation for the highest environmental standards. This reputation has never been more important than it is now, to meet the expectations both of our international trading partners and consumers in the UK.

This reputation and our natural heritage is under threat from agricultural pollution. I disagree with Janet Finch-Saunders stating that the regulations are punishing farmers. I will tell her who's being punished: farmers who already undertake good practice in nutrient management, preventing pollution from their own farms, and who have to watch as others do the bare minimum, with the cost of any damage being passed on to others—the costs of water treatment added to customer bills, the cost to the reputation of the sector, and the price we're all paying in the loss of fish, insects, sensitive habitats and the character of our countryside. This has been a blight on the reputation of Welsh farming for many years.

Since I came into post, I have sought to create the opportunity for the agricultural industry and others to come forward and address the issue without further regulation. Unfortunately, there has been no consistent downward trend in agricultural pollution. Since 2001, there have been almost 3,000 substantiated acute agricultural-related pollution incidents across Wales, continuing at an average rate of more than three each week in the last three years. In 2020, when fewer reported incidents were investigated due to the COVID pandemic, numbers were still higher than in 2015, 2016 and 2017. There were more recorded incidents in 2018 than any other year in the last 20 years. Even with the current media attention since I announced these regulations on 27 January, NRW has received 49 pollution reports related to agriculture, of which 20, as of 1 March, have been substantiated. These are the substantiated incidents where NRW has been able to confirm an incident reported to them. However, acute pollution incidents are only the most visible example of agricultural pollution. Diffuse pollution occurs over time and is damaging water quality, contributing to air pollution and increasing greenhouse gas emissions.

Misinformation about the regulations has been a cause of unnecessary stress to farmers, many of whom, far from being forced out of business as the opposition have claimed, will be in a good position to meet the new regulatory standards and stand to gain from improved nutrient management on their farms. Farmers who are unsure about how they can achieve compliance may seek support and advice through Welsh Government's Farming Connect advisory service, including how to access the financial support available. The regulations are targeted on activities that produce a risk of pollution, wherever they take place.

The opposition say, rather than a baseline standard, we should take one approach for phosphorus pollution in the nine river SACs, a different approach for those water bodies failing water framework directive standards, another for nitrate thresholds, yet another for catchments affected by acute pollution incidents and so on—a prospectus for confusion and delay. Such an approach would do nothing for air pollution or emissions reduction; they are not practical or meaningful alternatives. Setting a baseline standard means the expectations can be clear, making it easier for farmers to be confident they are compliant, and easier for advisory services and the regulator to support farmers to achieve compliance. Where activities are low risk, such as in relation to sheep farming, the requirements are minimal. The requirements will be introduced over time, with the first step requiring farmers to follow good practice in when and where to spread slurry, as many already do.

In last week's Tory debate, I sought a consensus with other parties that, given the climate and nature emergencies, we could all recognise that the first step, as set out in the advice of the Committee on Climate Change, would be to make current good practice into the baseline standard across Wales. Neither Plaid Cymru nor the Tories could bring themselves to accept the need for action, simply showing how completely out of step they are with the public's expectations. They would rather ignore the scientific advice and allow Wales to become the last refuge of agricultural pollution. I'm grateful to those farmers who support the actions we are taking to make a difference, and to other stakeholders, such as the Wildlife Trust and angling groups, who have so clearly articulated what can be achieved and why it is so important.

The agricultural pollution regulations are one step, but a very important one, in the journey towards cleaner rivers, cleaner air, and the achievement in Wales of the most nature- and climate-friendly farming in the world. After today, there will still be much more to do to deliver our ambitions to achieve a net-zero, nature-positive economy in which the benefits of our rich natural heritage are shared fairly. I hope all Senedd Members will today demonstrate their commitment to those ambitions in the decision they take. Vote against the annulment motion, vote against lowering environmental standards in Wales, vote against delaying our response to the climate and nature emergencies, and vote against agricultural pollution in Wales. Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Bydd sicrhau Cymru fwy gwyrdd yn dibynnu ar ymrwymiad ac arbenigedd ein ffermwyr. Mae ganddynt rôl unigryw yn cynhyrchu bwyd o ansawdd uchel ar yr un pryd â diogelu cynefin, amddiffyn ein priddoedd gwerthfawr, dal carbon a glanhau ein haer a'n dŵr er budd iechyd pobl, ac iechyd ein planed wrth gwrs. Mae'r angen a welwn am y rheoliadau llygredd amaethyddol hyn yn adlewyrchu ein hymrwymiad i degwch. Mae'n fater o degwch i genedlaethau'r dyfodol, fel bod ganddynt fynediad at eu treftadaeth naturiol, yr ymddiriedir ynom i'w diogelu. Mae'n fater o degwch i'r ffermwyr sydd eisoes yn mynd y tu hwnt i ofynion rheoleiddio, gan feithrin enw da i'r sector am gynnal y safonau amgylcheddol uchaf. Ni fu'r enw da hwn erioed yn bwysicach nag y mae ar hyn o bryd, er mwyn bodloni disgwyliadau ein partneriaid masnachu rhyngwladol a'n cwsmeriaid yn y DU.

Mae'r enw da hwn a'n treftadaeth naturiol dan fygythiad o ganlyniad i lygredd amaethyddol. Rwy'n anghytuno â Janet Finch-Saunders sy'n dweud bod y rheoliadau'n cosbi ffermwyr. Fe ddywedaf wrthi pwy sy'n cael eu cosbi: ffermwyr sydd eisoes yn ymgymryd ag arferion da o ran rheoli maethynnau, atal llygredd o'u ffermydd eu hunain, ac sy'n gorfod gwylio wrth i eraill wneud y lleiafswm posibl, gyda chost unrhyw ddifrod yn cael ei drosglwyddo i eraill—costau trin dŵr yn cael eu hychwanegu at filiau cwsmeriaid, y gost i enw da'r sector, a'r pris rydym i gyd yn ei dalu yn sgil colli pysgod, pryfed, cynefinoedd sensitif a chymeriad ein cefn gwlad. Mae hyn wedi bod yn falltod ar enw da ffermio yng Nghymru ers blynyddoedd lawer.

Ers imi ddod i'r swydd, rwyf wedi ceisio creu cyfle i'r diwydiant amaethyddol ac eraill gamu ymlaen a mynd i'r afael â'r broblem heb reoleiddio pellach. Yn anffodus, ni fu gostyngiad cyson mewn llygredd amaethyddol. Ers 2001, cafodd bron i 3,000 o achosion o lygredd acíwt yn gysylltiedig ag amaethyddiaeth eu cadarnhau ledled Cymru, gan barhau ar gyfradd gyfartalog o fwy na thri achos bob wythnos dros y tair blynedd diwethaf. Yn 2020, pan ymchwiliwyd i lai o ddigwyddiadau yr adroddwyd yn eu cylch oherwydd pandemig COVID, roedd nifer yr achosion yn dal yn uwch nag yn 2015, 2016 a 2017. Cofnodwyd mwy o ddigwyddiadau yn 2018 nag unrhyw flwyddyn arall yn yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf. Hyd yn oed gyda'r sylw presennol yn y cyfryngau ers imi gyhoeddi'r rheoliadau hyn ar 27 Ionawr, mae CNC wedi derbyn 49 o adroddiadau llygredd yn ymwneud ag amaethyddiaeth, ac ar 1 Mawrth, roedd 20 ohonynt wedi'u cadarnhau. Dyma'r digwyddiadau a gadarnhawyd lle mae CNC wedi gallu cadarnhau digwyddiadau yr adroddwyd wrthynt yn eu cylch. Fodd bynnag, digwyddiadau llygredd acíwt yw'r enghraifft fwyaf gweladwy o lygredd amaethyddol. Mae llygredd gwasgaredig yn digwydd dros amser ac mae'n niweidio ansawdd dŵr, yn cyfrannu at lygredd aer ac yn cynyddu allyriadau nwyon tŷ gwydr.

Mae gwybodaeth anghywir am y rheoliadau wedi bod yn achosi straen diangen i ffermwyr, a bydd llawer ohonynt, ymhell o gael eu gorfodi allan o fusnes fel y mae'r wrthblaid wedi'i honni, mewn sefyllfa dda i fodloni'r safonau rheoleiddio newydd ac elwa o reoli maethynnau yn well ar eu ffermydd. Gall ffermwyr sy'n ansicr sut y gallant gydymffurfio ofyn am gymorth a chyngor drwy wasanaeth cynghori Cyswllt Ffermio Llywodraeth Cymru, gan gynnwys sut i gael gafael ar y cymorth ariannol sydd ar gael. Mae'r rheoliadau wedi'u targedu at weithgareddau sy'n peri risg o lygredd, lle bynnag y maent yn digwydd.

Yn hytrach na safon sylfaenol, dywed y gwrthbleidiau y dylem fabwysiadu un dull o fynd i'r afael â llygredd ffosfforws yn y naw ardal cadwraeth arbennig afon, dull gwahanol i'r cyrff dŵr sy'n methu cyrraedd safonau'r gyfarwyddeb fframwaith dŵr, un arall ar gyfer trothwyon nitradau, ac un arall eto ar gyfer dalgylchoedd yr effeithir arnynt gan ddigwyddiadau llygredd acíwt ac yn y blaen—prosbectws ar gyfer dryswch ac oedi. Ni fyddai dull gweithredu o'r fath yn gwneud dim i wella llygredd aer na lleihau allyriadau; nid ydynt yn ddewisiadau amgen ymarferol nac ystyrlon. Mae gosod safon sylfaenol yn golygu y gall y disgwyliadau fod yn glir, gan ei gwneud yn haws i ffermwyr fod yn hyderus eu bod yn cydymffurfio, a'i gwneud yn haws i wasanaethau cynghori a'r rheoleiddiwr gynorthwyo ffermwyr i gydymffurfio. Lle mae gweithgareddau'n rhai risg isel, megis mewn perthynas â ffermio defaid, mae'r gofynion yn fach iawn. Bydd y gofynion yn cael eu cyflwyno dros amser, a'r cam cyntaf fydd ei gwneud yn ofynnol i ffermwyr ddilyn arferion da o ran pryd a ble i wasgaru slyri, fel y mae llawer eisoes yn ei wneud.

Yn nadl y Torïaid yr wythnos diwethaf, ceisiais ddod o hyd i gonsensws gyda phleidiau eraill, o ystyried yr argyfyngau hinsawdd a natur, y gallem gydnabod mai'r cam cyntaf, fel y nodir yng nghyngor y Pwyllgor ar Newid Hinsawdd, fyddai gwneud yr arferion da presennol yn safonau sylfaenol ledled Cymru. Ni allai Plaid Cymru na'r Torïaid dderbyn yr angen i weithredu, gan ddangos eu diffyg ymwybyddiaeth o ddisgwyliadau'r cyhoedd. Byddai'n well ganddynt anwybyddu'r cyngor gwyddonol a chaniatáu i Gymru fod yn lloches olaf i lygredd amaethyddol. Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r ffermwyr sy'n cefnogi'r camau rydym yn eu cymryd i wneud gwahaniaeth, ac i randdeiliaid eraill, fel yr Ymddiriedolaeth Natur a grwpiau genweirio, sydd wedi mynegi'r hyn y gellir ei gyflawni, a pham ei fod mor bwysig, mewn ffordd mor glir.

Mae'r rheoliadau llygredd amaethyddol yn un cam, ond yn gam pwysig iawn, yn y daith tuag at afonydd glanach, aer glanach, a sicrhau mai yng Nghymru y ceir y ffermio mwyaf ystyriol o natur a'r hinsawdd yn y byd. Ar ôl heddiw, bydd llawer mwy i'w wneud o hyd i gyflawni ein huchelgeisiau i sicrhau economi sero-net, sy'n gadarnhaol o ran natur, lle caiff buddion ein treftadaeth naturiol gyfoethog eu rhannu'n deg. Gobeithio y bydd yr holl Aelodau o'r Senedd heddiw yn dangos eu hymrwymiad i'r uchelgeisiau hynny yn y penderfyniad a wnânt. Pleidleisiwch yn erbyn y cynnig i ddirymu, pleidleisiwch yn erbyn gostwng safonau amgylcheddol yng Nghymru, pleidleisiwch yn erbyn gohirio ein hymateb i'r argyfyngau hinsawdd a natur, a phleidleisiwch yn erbyn llygredd amaethyddol yng Nghymru. Diolch.

15:50

Thank you for that. I have no Members who wish to make an intervention, therefore I call on Llyr Gruffydd to reply to the debate. Llyr.

Diolch ichi am hynny. Nid oes gennyf unrhyw Aelodau sy'n dymuno gwneud ymyriad, felly galwaf ar Llyr Gruffydd i ymateb i'r ddadl. Llyr.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Mi wnes i gychwyn y ddadl yma drwy annog Aelodau i gydnabod y ffaith nad oedd y cynnig yma yn rhyw fath o alwad inni beidio â gweithredu, a dyw'r cynnig yma'n sicr ddim yn alwad arnom ni i beidio â chyflwyno rheoliadau ac i anwybyddu'r broblem. Yn anffodus, mae sylwadau'r Gweinidog wrth gloi'r ddadl wedi dangos ei bod hi heb wrando gair ar beth ddywedais i, ac mae hynny'n siom i mi. Rôn i'n meddwl gwell ohoni, a bod yn onest. Ac i daflu rhyw fath o honiadau o'r fath i fy nghyfeiriad i, dwi'n cymryd hynny fel insult difrifol, a dwi yn drist ei bod hi wedi teimlo bod angen gwneud hynny. Dwi ddim yn gwybod faint o weithiau dwi yn gorfod dweud fy mod i o ddifrif ynglŷn â gweithredu ar y broblem yma. Yr her i fi, wrth gwrs, yw dyw yr hyn sydd ger ein bron ni ddim yn fy marn i yn mynd i gyflawni'r canlyniadau rŷn ni eisiau eu gweld. 

Nawr, mi ddywedodd y Gweinidog ei bod hi wedi rhoi cynnig i'r diwydiant i ddod â datrysiadau gerbron. Wel, efallai bydd hi'n cofio bod y diwydiant wedi cyflwyno dau adroddiad iddi yn cynnwys argymhellion ynglŷn â'r ffordd ymlaen—yn yn Ebrill 2018, un ym Mawrth y flwyddyn diwethaf. Mae'n nhw'n dal i aros am ymateb gan y Gweinidog i'r cynigion hynny. Felly, peidied hi â dweud ei bod hi wedi rhoi cyfle i'r sector i ymateb. Dyw hi ddim, ac mae hynny yn gamarweiniol, oherwydd mae hi wedi anwybyddu'r hyn sydd wedi cael ei gynnig iddi.

Nawr, mi fuaswn i yn cefnogi'r rheoliadau yma petawn i'n credu eu bod nhw am weithio, ond mae yna gymaint o gwestiynau am y canlyniadau amgylcheddol anfwriadol ddaw yn eu sgil nhw, am yr effaith andwyol y byddan nhw'n eu cael ar ddyfodol ffermydd yng Nghymru, y tebygrwydd y bydd e yn arwain at golli rhai o'n ffermydd teuluol ni a'r effaith ehangach y bydd hynny'n ei gael, wrth gwrs, ar yr economi wledig ac ar gymdeithas yng nghefn gwlad. Dyw portreadu'r ddadl yma fel dewis rhwng rheoleiddio neu beidio â rheoleiddio ddim yn disgrifio yn deg y dewis sydd o'n blaenau ni mewn gwirionedd y prynhawn yma. Yr hyn fyddai cefnogi'r cynnig yma yn ei wneud yw sicrhau bod y Llywodraeth yn cymryd cam yn ôl i edrych ar yr opsiynau amgen fydd yn dod â gwell canlyniadau i'r amgylchedd a llai o ddinistr i'r economi a chymunedau gwledig. Dwi'n barod i chwarae fy rhan i yn hynny o beth. Y cwestiwn yw: ydych chi? 

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I started this debate by encouraging Members to acknowledge the fact that this motion was no call on us not to take action, and certainly I am not looking to not introduce regulations and to ignore the problem. Unfortunately, the Minister's comments in response to the debate show me that she hasn't listened to a word I've said, and that's disappointing. I thought better of her, to be honest. And to make such accusations about me, I take that as a very grave insult, and I am saddened she felt the need to do that. I don't know how many times I have to say that I am serious about taking action on this problem. The challenge for me, of course, is that what we have here today, in my view, isn't going to deliver the outcomes that we want to see.

Now, the Minister said that she'd made an offer to the industry to bring solutions forward. Well, she may recall that the industry did present her with two reports, including recommendations on the way forward—one in April 2018 and one in March of last year. They are still awaiting the Minister's response to those proposals. So, let her not say that she's given the sector an opportunity to respond. She has not, and that is misleading, because she has ignored what has been proposed to her.

Now, I would support these regulations if I believed that they were going to work, but there are so many questions about unintended consequences in environmental terms, the detrimental impact that they will have on the future of farms, the likelihood that it will lead to the loss of some of our family farms and the broader impact that that will have on the rural economy and communities in rural Wales. Portraying this argument as a choice between regulating or not regulating doesn't fairly describe the choice that we have before us today. What supporting this annulment motion would do would be to ensure that the Government takes a step back to look at alternative options that will bring better outcomes for the environment and less destruction to the economy and rural communities. I am willing to play my part in that. The question is: are you?

15:55

Thank you for that. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I see objections, therefore we will vote on this item in voting time.

Diolch ichi am hynny. Y cwestiwn yw a ddylid derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Gwelaf wrthwynebiadau, felly pleidleisiwn ar yr eitem hon yn y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Voting deferred until voting time.

6. Dadl ar Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon: Ymchwiliad i effaith COVID-19, a'r modd y mae'n cael ei reoli, ar iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru: Adroddiad 2—Yr effaith ar iechyd meddwl a llesiant
6. Debate on the Health, Social Care and Sport report: Inquiry into the impact of the Covid-19 outbreak, and its management, on health and social care in Wales: Report 2—Impact on mental health and wellbeing

The next item on our agenda is the debate on the Health, Social Care and Sport report 'Inquiry into the impact of the Covid-19 outbreak, and its management, on health and social care in Wales: Report 2—Impact on mental health and wellbeing'. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion. Dai Lloyd.

Yr eitem nesaf ar ein hagenda yw'r ddadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon 'Ymchwiliad i effaith Covid-19, a'r modd y mae'n cael ei reoli, ar iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru: Adroddiad 2—Yr effaith ar iechyd meddwl a llesiant'. Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i gyflwyno'r cynnig. Dai Lloyd.

Cynnig NDM7610 Dai Lloyd

Cynnig bod y Senedd:

Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon ar ei ymchwiliad i effaith Covid-19, a’r modd y mae’n cael ei reoli, ar iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru: Adroddiad 2 - Yr effaith ar iechyd meddwl a llesiant, a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 17 Rhagfyr 2020.

Motion NDM7610 Dai Lloyd

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee: Inquiry into the impact of the Covid-19 outbreak, and its management, on health and social care in Wales: Report 2 – Impact on mental health and wellbeing, which was laid in the Table Office on 17 December 2020.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Dyma ein hail adroddiad ar effaith COVID-19 ar iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Mae'n canolbwyntio'n benodol ar iechyd meddwl a llesiant. Yn ogystal ag argymhellion manwl, daethom i un casgliad cyffredinol, sef mae’n bwysicach nawr nag erioed bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud y gwelliannau angenrheidiol a nodwyd yn ein hadroddiad yn 2018 ar atal hunanladdiad ac yn adroddiad y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg, sef ‘Cadernid Meddwl’.

Mae COVID-19 wedi achosi sawl her o ran ei effeithiau corfforol, ond hefyd o ran ei effaith ar lesiant meddyliol ac emosiynol pobl. Mae bod heb gyswllt efo'ch teulu, eich ffrindiau a rhwydweithiau cymorth eraill am gyfnodau hir o amser wedi cael effaith sylweddol. Rydym yn gwybod bod mwy na hanner yr oedolion a thri chwarter y bobl ifanc yn teimlo bod eu hiechyd meddwl wedi gwaethygu yn ystod cyfnod y cyfyngiadau symud. Rydym hefyd yn hynod bryderus am lesiant preswylwyr cartrefi gofal, yn enwedig y bobl sydd efo dementia. Mae niwed sylweddol yn cael ei achosi gan fod ar wahân am gyfnodau hir yn sgîl y cyfyngiadau parhaus ar ymweliadau efo chartrefi gofal. Rydym yn deall y pryderon sy'n wynebu rheolwyr cartrefi gofal, wrth gwrs, ond rhaid cydbwyso'r risg o niwed yn sgîl y coronafeirws â'r risg i iechyd a llesiant preswylwyr sy'n deillio o fod ar wahân oddi wrth eu hanwyliaid am gyfnod mor hir.

Mae’r pandemig hefyd wedi cael effaith ddwys ar benderfynyddion ehangach iechyd meddwl a llesiant, gan gynnwys ffactorau economaidd, ffactorau cymdeithasol, ffactorau amgylcheddol a ffactorau addysgol. Mae wedi amlygu a dwysáu'r anghydraddoldebau mewn cymdeithas. Bydd llawer o amser yn mynd heibio cyn y deallir effaith lawn y pandemig ar iechyd meddwl ac iechyd emosiynol y genedl. Roedd yn amlwg bod gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl o dan bwysau sylweddol cyn COVID-19 hyd yn oed, a dim ond cynyddu a wnaiff y galw hwnnw.

Bydd anghenion pobl yn wahanol. Mae'r pandemig wedi gwaethygu'r ffactorau risg sy'n hysbys ar gyfer hunanladdiad a hunan-niweidio, fel unigrwydd, unigedd, diffyg ymdeimlad o berthyn a diffyg galwedigaeth ystyrlon. Efallai na fydd rhai pobl sydd â chyflyrau iechyd meddwl parhaus wedi gallu cael gafael ar eu gwasanaethau arferol ers cryn amser, a bydd mwy o angen arnyn nhw nawr nag erioed o’r blaen. Bydd rhai pobl wedi cael profedigaethau yn ystod y pandemig, neu o ganlyniad iddo. Nid yw colli anwyliaid byth yn hawdd, ond mae’n siŵr bod mynd drwy hyn ar adeg pan na allwch fod gyda nhw ar ddiwedd eu hoes, ac nad oes modd bod yng nghwmni teulu a ffrindiau i gael cefnogaeth, yn effeithio ar allu pobl i ddygymod efo’u colled.

Efallai yr effeithir ar bobl eraill nad ydynt erioed wedi cael problemau iechyd meddwl o’r blaen gan y trawma ar lefel y boblogaeth yn gyffredinol. Teimladau o bryder, tristwch a cholled, mae’r rhain yn ymatebion naturiol i sefyllfa frawychus ac mae’n bwysig peidio â’u hystyried yn or-feddygol. Rhaid bod cefnogaeth briodol, fodd bynnag, ar gael i bawb sydd ei hangen. Rhaid i hyn gwmpasu’r amrywiaeth o anghenion iechyd meddwl, o gymorth lefel isel i gymorth ymyrraeth gynnar, i wasanaethau mwy arbenigol a gofal mewn argyfwng. Dylai hefyd gynnwys gwasanaethau hygyrch o ansawdd da mewn profedigaeth.

Rhaid i’r gwasanaeth a’r gefnogaeth gywir hefyd fod ar waith ar gyfer staff iechyd, gofal cymdeithasol a staff rheng flaen eraill sydd wedi gweld llwyth gwaith cynyddol, prinder staff, trawma yn y gweithle a cholli ffrindiau, cydweithwyr a defnyddwyr gwasanaethau. Heb gefnogaeth eu hunain, maent mewn perygl o fynd yn sâl oherwydd straen neu anawsterau iechyd meddwl eraill o ganlyniad i gael eu llethu’n gorfforol neu yn emosiynol.

Nawr, fel pwyllgor, rydym wedi tynnu sylw dro ar ôl tro at yr angen am gydraddoldeb rhwng iechyd meddwl ac iechyd corfforol. Cyn y pandemig roeddem yn pryderu nad oedd cynnydd digonol yn cael ei wneud yn hyn o beth, ac rydym yn ofni na fydd COVID-19 ond yn ei rwystro ymhellach. Os ydym am sicrhau cydraddoldeb, rhaid i iechyd meddwl fod yn ystyriaeth allweddol wrth i Lywodraeth Cymru wneud penderfyniadau a chynllunio ar gyfer adferiad. Mae hyn yn gofyn am ddull ar sail iechyd cyhoeddus o ymdrin ag iechyd meddwl sy’n ymwneud â hyrwyddo llesiant, atal salwch meddwl ac ymyrraeth gynnar, ac sy’n rhychwantu adrannau’r Llywodraeth a phob sector o’r gymdeithas. Mae angen inni weld cydweithio gwell a chyd-ddealltwriaeth glir ar draws y Llywodraeth a gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ynghylch pwysigrwydd iechyd meddwl y cyhoedd a model cyllido sy’n cefnogi hyn.

Rydyn ni'n diolch i’r Gweinidog am ei hymateb i’n hadroddiad ni fel pwyllgor. Rydyn ni'n croesawu'r ffaith bod ein holl argymhellion wedi’u derbyn, naill ai’n llawn neu mewn egwyddor. Fodd bynnag, fel sy’n digwydd yn aml gydag ymatebion Llywodraeth Cymru, mae’r naratif yn dweud wrthym beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud eisoes yn hytrach na mynd i’r afael â’n hargymhellion penodol. Mewn ymateb i’n galwad am ddiweddariad ysgrifenedig ar weithredu ein hargymhellion ac argymhellion y pwyllgor plant, dywed yr ymateb, a dwi'n dyfynnu:

'bydd y Pwyllgor yn deall bod gweithredu’r argymhellion eang yn rhaglen waith sylweddol, a bod angen cydbwyso hynny â gweithredu ein hymatebion i adroddiadau cysylltiedig eraill y Pwyllgor a’r ymrwymiadau a nodir yn Law yn Llaw at Iechyd Meddwl—Cynllun Cyflawni. Dylid cydnabod bod y rhaglen waith i gyflawni’r gwelliannau yn mynd y tu hwnt i’r tymor hwn.'

Diwedd y dyfynnu.

Pan ddaw, rhaid i’r diweddariad ysgrifenedig fynd i’r afael â’n hargymhellion penodol. Rhaid iddo hefyd ddarparu amserlenni manwl fel y gallwn gael ymdeimlad clir o’r hyn a gyflawnwyd a beth arall sydd angen ei wneud, ac erbyn pryd. Byddem yn annog yn benodol i waith y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen ar gadw golwg ar ddata atal hunanladdiad gael ei ddatblygu fel blaenoriaeth frys.

Rydym yn cydnabod bod y rhain yn amseroedd anodd iawn, ac nad tasg fach yw gweithredu rhai o’n hargymhellion, ond ni allwn fforddio peidio â gwneud hyn. Mae wedi bod yn amlwg ers amser maith beth sydd angen inni ei wneud i wella iechyd meddwl a llesiant yng Nghymru. Mae’n rhaid i ni nawr wneud newidiadau er mwyn osgoi rhagor o ddioddefaint a marwolaethau diangen y gall fod modd eu hatal. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. This is our second report on the impact of COVID-19 on health and social care in Wales. It focused specifically on mental health and well-being. In addition to detailed recommendations, we reached one overarching conclusion, namely that it's more important now than ever that the Welsh Government makes the necessary improvements identified in our report of 2018 on suicide prevention and in the Children, Young People and Education Committee's report, namely 'Mind over matter'.

COVID-19 has brought many challenges in terms of its physical effects, but also in its impact on people's mental and emotional well-being. Being cut off from your family, your friends and other support networks for long periods of time has had a profound effect. We know that more than half of adults and three quarters of young people feel that their mental health has worsened during the lockdown period. We are also extremely concerned about the well-being of care home residents, particularly those living with dementia. Significant harms are being caused by prolonged separation, with continued restrictions on care home visits. We understand the anxieties faced by care home managers, of course, but the risk of harm from coronavirus must be balanced against the risk to residents' health and well-being by prolonged separation from their loved ones.

The pandemic has also had a profound effect on the wider determinants of mental health and well-being, including economic, societal, environmental and educational factors. It has exposed and magnified the inequalities in society. It will be a long time before the full extent of the impact of the pandemic on the nation’s emotional and mental health is fully understood. However, it was clear that mental health services were under significant pressure prior to COVID-19, and demand for these services will only increase.

People's needs will differ. The pandemic has exacerbated known risk factors for self-harm and suicide, such as loneliness, isolation, lack of belonging and lack of meaningful occupation. Some people with ongoing mental health conditions may have been unable to access their routine services for some time, and they will be in greater need now than ever before. Some people will have experienced bereavement during the pandemic or as a result of it. Losing a loved one is never easy, but to go through this at a time when you can’t be with them at the end of their life and don’t have access to friends and family for support will no doubt affect people’s ability to come to terms with their loss.

Other people who have never experienced mental health problems before may be affected by the population-level trauma that has occurred. Feelings of anxiety, sadness and loss, these are natural responses to a frightening situation and it's important not to over-medicalise them. However, appropriate support must be in place for everyone that needs it. This must cover the range of mental health needs, from low level, early intervention through to more specialist services and crisis care. It should also include quality and accessible bereavement services.

The right services and support must also be in place for health, social care and other front-line staff, who have experienced increased workloads, staff shortages, workplace trauma and the loss of friends, colleagues and service users. Without support themselves, they risk becoming unwell due to stress or other mental health difficulties as a result of being physically and emotionally drained.

Now, as a committee, we've repeatedly called for the need for parity between mental and physical health. Before the pandemic we were concerned that insufficient progress was being made in this regard, and we fear that COVID-19 will only set it back further. If parity is to be achieved, then mental health must be a key consideration in the Welsh Government’s decision-making process and recovery planning. This will require a public health approach to mental health that promotes well-being, prevention and early intervention, and which spans Government departments and all sectors of society. We need to see improved joint working and a clear, shared understanding across Government and public services about the importance of public mental health, and a funding model that supports this.

We thank the Minister for her response to our report as a committee. We welcome the fact that all our recommendations were accepted, either in full or in principle. However, as is often the case with Welsh Government responses, the narrative tells us what the Welsh Government is already doing, rather than addressing our specific recommendations. In response to our call for a written update on the implementation of our recommendations and those of the children’s committee, the response says, and I quote:

'the Committee will understand that the implementation of the breadth of recommendations is a significant programme of work and needs to be balanced with the implementation of our responses to other related Committee reports and the commitments set out in the Together for Mental Health Delivery Plan. It should be recognised that the programme of work to deliver the improvements runs beyond this term.'

That's the end of the quote.

When it comes, the written update must address our specific recommendations. It must also provide detailed timescales so that we can get a clear sense of what’s been achieved and what else needs doing and by when. We would urge in particular for the work of the task and finish group on suicide prevention data surveillance to be developed as an urgent priority.

We recognise that these are difficult times and that implementing some of our recommendations is no small task, but we can’t afford not to do this. It's been clear for some time what we need to do to improve mental health and well-being in Wales. We really must now make changes to avoid further unnecessary suffering and preventable deaths. Thank you very much.

16:00

Can I start by commending the committee? I'm not a member of it, but I really think this is an excellent report, as was the previous one, and I also commend the committee members for the way they've sought to work across the sectors and have a very integrated approach, and I think that's clearly shown in the first recommendation, which makes a very powerful reference to the children's committee report, 'Mind over matter'. I'm not a member of the children's committee either, but in my view, the 'Mind over matter' report, of all the outstanding reports completed by committees in the fifth Senedd, I think that report has been the most influential and I think you are quite right to refer to it.

I think the short- and long-term impact of the pandemic on mental health will be very, very considerable, and I thank the committee for focusing on such issues as bereavement care. I think we now have a lot of children who did not see their grandparents in their last days, who would have found it very difficult even to process the event of those losses, and that will be with them for many years, and will affect them as they go into adulthood and in their attitudes to matters of life and its passing and death. I think it will take a lot of careful work to ensure that people are able to access the level of support they'll want, and this really does bring us on to a public health approach; I think that's entirely appropriate.

I also think it was right for the committee to emphasise the need for well-being support for front-line staff, particularly NHS staff, and I know many colleagues in the Senedd would have had their briefing updates from the various health boards. And when we were having—or certainly in my region, we were really pushing the health board to outline what it was doing to support staff, and I'm grateful for the work they've done, but I think this will be ongoing as COVID is with us for much of the coming decade, probably, and as we manage it, perhaps we can realistically hope for it to be less severe, but it's still going to be a factor and a real threat.

I think there are some wider things in terms of the public health approach as well, like other social factors, the importance of exercise, the availability or the access to open space that many communities lack; these have been really detrimental things for people's well-being and mental health. In our urban design and our regeneration work, we must ensure that these sorts of gaps are filled. Suicide prevention, I think, is the right approach in terms of emphasising that we can really prevent a lot of the suicides that take place. The victims of suicide really do deserve this type of approach, and until we do that, we will, I'm afraid, suffer a level of suicide that is a reflection on wider services, but also on that public health approach not being as full as we need it to be.

Can I just finish by thanking the Welsh Government for accepting all the recommendations? But I did rather agree with some of Dai Lloyd's comments at the end, in terms of what is the depth of the commitment, and I do point to recommendation 12, where the committee recommends the Welsh Government's budget for 2021-22, just published, demonstrates a strong commitment to improving public mental health in Wales. I'm pleased the Government accepted that recommendation, but then, under financial implications, the Welsh Government says, 'none additional'. With that comment, I conclude my remarks.

A gaf fi ddechrau drwy ganmol y pwyllgor? Nid wyf yn aelod ohono, ond rwy'n credu bod hwn yn adroddiad rhagorol, fel yr un blaenorol, ac rwyf hefyd yn cymeradwyo aelodau'r pwyllgor am y ffordd y maent wedi ceisio gweithio ar draws y sectorau a chael dull integredig iawn, a chredaf fod hynny wedi'i ddangos yn glir yn yr argymhelliad cyntaf, sy'n cyfeirio'n rymus iawn at adroddiad y pwyllgor plant, 'Cadernid Meddwl'. Nid wyf yn aelod o'r pwyllgor plant ychwaith, ond yn fy marn i, rwy'n credu mai adroddiad 'Cadernid Meddwl', o'r holl adroddiadau rhagorol a gwblhawyd gan bwyllgorau yn y pumed Senedd, oedd y mwyaf dylanwadol a chredaf eich bod yn llygad eich lle yn cyfeirio ato.

Credaf y bydd effaith tymor byr a hirdymor y pandemig ar iechyd meddwl yn sylweddol tu hwnt, a diolch i'r pwyllgor am ganolbwyntio ar faterion fel gofal profedigaeth. Credaf fod gennym lawer o blant yn awr na welodd eu neiniau a'u teidiau yn eu dyddiau diwethaf, a fyddai wedi ei chael hi'n anodd iawn prosesu ffeithiau'r colledion hynny hyd yn oed, a bydd hynny gyda hwy am flynyddoedd lawer, a bydd yn effeithio arnynt wrth iddynt ddod yn oedolion ac yn eu hagweddau at faterion byw a marw a marwolaeth. Rwy'n credu y bydd gofyn gwneud llawer o waith gofalus i sicrhau bod pobl yn gallu cael gafael ar y lefel o gymorth y byddant ei heisiau, a daw hyn â ni at ddull iechyd y cyhoedd o weithredu; rwy'n credu bod hynny'n gwbl briodol.

Credaf hefyd ei bod yn iawn i'r pwyllgor bwysleisio'r angen am gymorth llesiant i staff rheng flaen, yn enwedig staff y GIG, a gwn y byddai llawer o gyd-Aelodau yn y Senedd wedi cael eu diweddariadau briffio gan y gwahanol fyrddau iechyd. A phan oeddem yn cael—neu'n sicr yn fy rhanbarth i, roeddem yn gwasgu'n galed ar y bwrdd iechyd i amlinellu'r hyn roedd yn ei wneud i gefnogi staff, ac rwy'n ddiolchgar am y gwaith y maent wedi'i wneud, ond rwy'n credu y bydd hyn yn parhau gan fod COVID gyda ni am lawer o'r degawd nesaf, yn ôl pob tebyg, ac wrth inni ei reoli, efallai y cawn obeithio'n realistig y bydd yn llai difrifol, ond mae'n dal yn mynd i fod yn ffactor ac yn fygythiad gwirioneddol.

Rwy'n credu bod rhai pethau ehangach o ran y dull iechyd cyhoeddus hefyd, fel ffactorau cymdeithasol eraill, pwysigrwydd ymarfer corff, argaeledd neu fynediad at fannau agored, ac mae llawer o gymunedau heb fannau o'r fath; mae'r rhain wedi bod yn bethau niweidiol iawn i lesiant ac iechyd meddwl pobl. Yn ein gwaith cynllunio trefol a'n gwaith adfywio, rhaid inni sicrhau bod y mathau hyn o fylchau'n cael eu llenwi. Credaf mai atal hunanladdiad yw'r dull cywir o ran pwysleisio y gallwn atal llawer o'r achosion o hunanladdiad sy'n digwydd. Mae'r rhai sy'n dioddef yn sgil hunanladdiad yn haeddu'r math hwn o ddull, a hyd nes y gwnawn hynny, mae arnaf ofn y byddwn yn dioddef lefel o hunanladdiad sy'n adlewyrchu ar wasanaethau ehangach, ond hefyd ar y ffaith nad yw dull iechyd cyhoeddus o'r fath mor llawn ag y mae arnom angen iddo fod.

A gaf fi orffen drwy ddiolch i Lywodraeth Cymru am dderbyn yr holl argymhellion? Ond roeddwn yn cytuno i raddau â rhai o sylwadau Dai Lloyd ar y diwedd, o ran beth yw dyfnder yr ymrwymiad, ac rwy'n cyfeirio at argymhelliad 12, lle mae'r pwyllgor yn argymell bod cyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer 2021-22, sydd newydd ei chyhoeddi, yn dangos ymrwymiad cryf i wella iechyd meddwl y cyhoedd yng Nghymru. Rwy'n falch bod y Llywodraeth wedi derbyn yr argymhelliad hwnnw, ond wedyn, o dan 'goblygiadau ariannol', dywed Llywodraeth Cymru, 'dim yn ychwanegol'. Gyda'r sylw hwnnw, fe ddof â fy sylwadau i ben.

16:05

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, for the opportunity to make a brief contribution in this debate, and it is difficult, I think, to do justice to such a wide-ranging report in this debate. There were a few issues I wanted to pick up on; the first was the very clear link made in the report for the continued need to see action on both 'Everybody's Business', the health committee's suicide prevention report, and the Children, Young People and Education Committee's 'Mind over matter' report. I wanted to place on record again my thanks to Dr Dai Lloyd for the strong partnership that has been established between the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee and my committee. It is absolutely crucial that we do not take our foot off the pedal for a second on delivering on both those reports. They are both landmark reports. They are both reports that had widespread consultation, not just with people with lived experience, but expert stakeholders, and I believe both reports have a huge amount of buy-in. So, I would urge every possible action to continue to prioritise both those reports.

I wanted to focus on two specific recommendations, really, which are recommendation 6 and recommendation 7. These deal with the fact that the committee was really concerned that there was a disconnect between the assurances the committee was given about mental health services continuing during the pandemic and what we heard on the ground. We were being consistently told by Ministers and by the head of the NHS in Wales that mental health services were designated as essential services. But what we heard from stakeholders on the ground was that people had indeed had difficulty getting access to those mental health services that they need, so I entirely concur with the committee's findings that Welsh Government really needs to delve into this and to check that the methods being used to check that people are getting services are actually representative of people's lived experience on the ground. I pay tribute to organisations like Mind Cymru, who are doing lots of work in gathering lived experience, but I think it is also essential that Welsh Government listens to people with lived experience about what their experience has been in the pandemic.

As we have said then in recommendation 7, we have called for mental health services to be prioritised. It has been a consistent aim of both committees for there to be parity between mental and physical health. Yet what we saw in the pandemic, which is somewhat understandable in a physical health emergency, was an immediate change to mental health services, because everything moved online, and online does not work for everyone. Phone calls do not work for everyone, and I think it's crucial moving forward that we ensure that our mental health services are resilient enough to deliver that parity in the kind of crisis that we are facing.

I wanted to just say something about crisis care, because the Welsh Government's response refers to the urgent access review, which is a very interesting document, 'Beyond the call', and I'd encourage Members to take a look at it. It describes the 900-odd calls a day that are made to the police, accident and emergency, and other emergency services for people in need of mental health support. But what I would urge from the Government is urgent action on the other part of that jigsaw, because if people are calling the police and going to A&E in those kinds of numbers, then we have failed miserably in providing the services that we need for people earlier on. We cannot rely on—

Diolch am y cyfle i wneud cyfraniad byr yn y ddadl hon, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n anodd gwneud cyfiawnder ag adroddiad mor eang yn y ddadl hon. Roeddwn am fynd ar drywydd rhai materion; yn gyntaf, y cyswllt clir iawn a wnaed yn yr adroddiad â'r angen parhaus i weld gweithredu ar 'Busnes Pawb', adroddiad atal hunanladdiad y pwyllgor iechyd, ac adroddiad 'Cadernid Meddwl' y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg. Roeddwn am gofnodi fy niolch eto i Dr Dai Lloyd am y bartneriaeth gref sydd wedi'i sefydlu rhwng y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon a fy mhwyllgor i. Mae'n gwbl hanfodol nad ydym yn tynnu ein traed oddi ar y sbardun am eiliad ar gyflawni amcanion y ddau adroddiad. Mae'r ddau yn adroddiadau nodedig. Ymgynghorwyd yn eang ar y ddau, nid yn unig gyda phobl â phrofiad bywyd, ond â rhanddeiliaid arbenigol, a chredaf fod y ddau adroddiad wedi ennyn llawer iawn o gefnogaeth. Felly, byddwn yn annog pob cam posibl i barhau i flaenoriaethu'r ddau ohonynt.

Roeddwn am ganolbwyntio ar ddau argymhelliad penodol, mewn gwirionedd, sef argymhelliad 6 ac argymhelliad 7. Mae'r rhain yn ymdrin â'r ffaith bod y pwyllgor yn pryderu'n fawr fod yna ddiffyg cysylltiad rhwng y sicrwydd a roddwyd i'r pwyllgor fod gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl yn parhau yn ystod y pandemig a'r hyn a glywsom ar lawr gwlad. Dywedodd Gweinidogion a phennaeth y GIG yng Nghymru wrthym yn gyson fod gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl wedi'u dynodi'n wasanaethau hanfodol. Ond yr hyn a glywsom gan randdeiliaid ar lawr gwlad oedd bod pobl wedi cael trafferth cael mynediad at y gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl sydd eu hangen arnynt, felly rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â chanfyddiadau'r pwyllgor fod gwir angen i Lywodraeth Cymru ymchwilio i hyn a sicrhau bod y dulliau sy'n cael eu defnyddio i wneud yn siŵr bod pobl yn cael gwasanaethau yn cynrychioli profiad bywyd pobl ar lawr gwlad mewn gwirionedd. Rwy'n talu teyrnged i sefydliadau fel Mind Cymru, sy'n gwneud llawer o waith ar gasglu profiadau bywyd, ond rwy'n credu ei bod hefyd yn hanfodol fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwrando ar bobl sydd â phrofiad bywyd am eu profiad yn ystod y pandemig.

Fel rydym wedi dweud wedyn yn argymhelliad 7, rydym wedi galw am flaenoriaethu gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl. Un o nodau cyson y ddau bwyllgor oedd sicrhau cydraddoldeb rhwng iechyd meddwl ac iechyd corfforol. Ac eto, yr hyn a welsom yn y pandemig, sy'n eithaf dealladwy mewn argyfwng iechyd corfforol, oedd newid i wasanaethau iechyd meddwl ar unwaith, oherwydd symudodd popeth ar-lein, ac nid yw ar-lein yn gweithio i bawb. Nid yw galwadau ffôn yn gweithio i bawb, ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn hanfodol wrth symud ymlaen ein bod yn sicrhau bod ein gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl yn ddigon gwydn i sicrhau'r cydraddoldeb hwnnw yn y math o argyfwng a wynebwn.

Roeddwn eisiau dweud rhywbeth am ofal mewn argyfwng, oherwydd mae ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru yn cyfeirio at yr adolygiad o fynediad brys, sy'n ddogfen ddiddorol iawn, 'Tu hwnt i'r alwad', a byddwn yn annog yr Aelodau i edrych arni. Mae'n disgrifio'r oddeutu 900 o alwadau y dydd a wneir i'r heddlu, damweiniau ac achosion brys, a gwasanaethau brys eraill i bobl sydd angen cymorth iechyd meddwl. Ond yr hyn y byddwn yn ei annog gan y Llywodraeth yw gweithredu brys ar ran arall y jig-so hwnnw, oherwydd os yw pobl yn ffonio'r heddlu ac yn mynd i'r adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys mewn niferoedd o'r fath, rydym wedi methu'n druenus gyda darparu'r gwasanaethau sydd eu hangen ar gyfer pobl yn gynharach. Ni allwn ddibynnu ar—

16:10

The Member just needs to wind up now, please.

Mae angen i'r Aelod ddirwyn i ben yn awr, os gwelwch yn dda.

—those emergency services to pick up the pieces, so I'd like it if the Minister could say something in her response about when she expects the other part of that review, the NHS crisis and care services work, to be completed and implemented. Diolch yn fawr. 

—y gwasanaethau brys hynny i godi'r darnau, felly hoffwn pe gallai'r Gweinidog ddweud rhywbeth yn ei hymateb ynglŷn â pha bryd y mae'n disgwyl i'r rhan arall o'r adolygiad hwnnw, gwaith argyfwng y GIG a gwasanaethau gofal, gael ei chwblhau a'i gweithredu. Diolch yn fawr.

Rydw innau'n falch iawn o fod wedi gallu chwarae rôl yn yr ymchwiliad pwysig iawn, iawn yma. Mae'r pandemig wedi achosi niwed ehangach na dim ond niwed corfforol, uniongyrchol COVID-19 ei hun, a dwi'n meddwl y gallwn ni ddisgwyl i effaith y pandemig ar iechyd meddwl i bara, o bosib, yn hirach na'r effaith ar iechyd corfforol. Mi glywsom ni yn yr ymchwiliad yma am effaith uniongyrchol y pandemig a'r cyfyngiadau ar iechyd meddwl pobl, o golli anwyliaid heb allu bod efo nhw ar yr oriau tyngedfennol, y teimladau yna o unigrwydd, teimladau o fod yn ynysig, a phobl yn methu â bod â rôl ystyrlon yn ystod y cyfnod yma.

Ond hefyd, wrth gwrs, mae yna effaith wedi bod ar fynediad pobl at wasanaethau iechyd meddwl, weithiau oherwydd cyfyngiadau a phwysau ychwanegol ar y gwasanaeth iechyd, dro arall pobl ddim yn siŵr iawn lle i droi yn ystod y pandemig—ddim yn gyfforddus i siarad efo pobl ar y platfformiau digidol newydd yma am bethau sydd yn eu poeni nhw. Mi oedd yna hyd yn oed ansicrwydd ar y dechrau ynglŷn â pha wasanaethau oedd i fod i gael eu cynnig. Mi gawsom ni'r digwyddiad syfrdanol yna yn y gogledd pan gafodd bron iawn i 1,700 o bobl glywed eu bod nhw’n cael eu tynnu oddi ar y rhestrau aros am ofal iechyd meddwl. Do, mi gyfaddefwyd mai camgymeriad oedd hynny, ond mae o'n dweud rhywbeth bod rhywun yn rhywle wedi meddwl am eiliad y byddai hi'n dderbyniol i ddweud wrth bobl oedd ar y rhestrau aros am ofal iechyd meddwl y byddent yn gorfod cael eu tynnu oddi ar y rhestrau hynny. 

Rydyn ni wedi trafod yn ystod yr ymchwiliad yma hefyd y ffaith nad oes angen gorfedicaleiddio, os liciwch chi, pethau bob amser, bod angen bod yn ystyrlon o bethau sydd yn ymatebion naturiol, emosiynol—galar, tristwch, pryderon ynglŷn â'r sefyllfa gyffredinol, ac ati—a bod angen meddwl am ffyrdd eraill o edrych ar lesiant pobl. Dwi wedi bod yn awyddus iawn i wthio'r Llywodraeth i wneud popeth posib i ganiatáu ymarfer corff yn yr awyr agored, i ganiatáu i bobl fynd allan am awyr iach, y pethau yma sy'n feddal ond yr un mor bwysig. 

Mi edrychom ni ar yr effaith ar rai grwpiau yn benodol. Dwi'n ddiolchgar iawn i Bethan Sayed am y gwaith mae hi wedi'i wneud yn pwysleisio yr angen i feddwl am lesiant rhieni newydd. Mae hynny'n bwysig iawn. Ond mi wna i gloi jest drwy siarad yn sydyn iawn am ddau o'r grwpiau y gwnaethom ni edrych arnyn nhw yn benodol. Un yw'r gweithlu rheng flaen. Mae eisiau inni gofio amdanyn nhw, a'r dystiolaeth a glywsom ni'n glir iawn yw y bydd llawer yn teimlo effeithiau tebyg i PTSD, hyd yn oed, am gyfnod i ddod oherwydd hyn. Mi hoffwn i glywed gan y Gweinidog sylwadau'n benodol ynglŷn â'r camau fydd yn cael eu cymryd i sicrhau y math yna o gefnogaeth hirdymor i weithwyr iechyd a gofal sydd wedi bod drwy gymaint, ac wedi bod mor anhunanol yn ystod y cyfnod yma. 

Y llall ydy'r effaith ar bobl hŷn a pha gamau fydd y Llywodraeth yn eu cymryd i'w cefnogi nhw—ie, y rhai sydd mewn cartrefi gofal, o bosib rhai sydd â'u hanwyliaid mewn cartrefi gofal. Mae'r unigrwydd sydd wedi cael ei deimlo gan lawer yn rhywbeth sydd yn mynd i olygu cefnogaeth a'r angen am gefnogaeth am amser hir i ddod. Ydy, mae hwn wedi bod yn argyfwng iechyd meddwl, yn ogystal ag iechyd corfforol. Mae'n bwysig bob amser ein bod ni'n cofio hynny. 

I'm very pleased to have been able to play a role in this hugely important inquiry. The pandemic has caused wider damage than simply the direct physical damage caused by COVID-19 itself, and I think we can expect the impact of the pandemic on mental health to last possibly longer than the impact on physical health. We heard as part of this inquiry about the direct impact of the pandemic and the restrictions on people's mental health, of the loss of loved ones without being able to be with them in those crucial hours, those feelings of loneliness and isolation, and people not having a meaningful role during these times.

But also there’s been an impact on people’s access to mental health services, sometimes because of restrictions and additional pressures on the health service, and at other times because people were not sure where to turn during the pandemic—they weren’t comfortable, perhaps, talking to people on these new digital platforms about things that may be causing them anxiety. There was even uncertainty at the outset as to which services were to be provided. We had that shocking incident in north Wales when almost 1,700 people were told that they were to be taken off waiting lists for mental health care. Yes, an admission was made that that was a mistake, but it tells you something that somebody somewhere thought for just one second that it might be acceptable to tell people who were on waiting lists for mental health care that they would have to be taken off those waiting lists.

We did discuss during this inquiry the fact that we don’t need to overmedicalise things on all occasions, that we need to take account of our natural, emotional responses—bereavement, sadness, anxiety about the current situation, and so on and so forth—and we need to think of other ways of looking at the well-being of people. I’ve been pushing the Government to do everything possible to allow outdoor exercise and to ensure that people can get out in the outdoors. These are soft approaches, but equally important.

If we look at the impact on certain groups, I’m very grateful to Bethan Sayed for the work that she has done in emphasising the need to think about the well-being of new parents. That is very important. But I will conclude by just mentioning two of the groups that we looked at specifically. One is the front-line workforce. We need to keep those in the front of our minds, and the evidence that we heard very clearly that many will be feeling impacts similar to PTSD even for years to come because of this. I would like to hear the Minister’s comments on the steps that will be taken to ensure that sort of support in the long term for health and care workers who have been through so much and have been so selfless throughout this period.

The second is the impact on older people and what steps the Welsh Government will take to support them—yes, those in care homes, and those who will have loved ones in care homes. The loneliness that has been felt by so many is something that is going to require support for years to come. Yes, this has been a mental health crisis as well as a physical health crisis, and it’s always important that we bear that in mind.

16:15

I now call on the Minister for Mental Health, Well-being and the Welsh Language, Eluned Morgan. 

Galwaf yn awr ar y Gweinidog Iechyd Meddwl, Llesiant a'r Gymraeg, Eluned Morgan.

Member
Eluned Morgan 16:18:26
Minister for Mental Health, Well-being and Welsh Language

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Yn gyntaf, a gaf i ddiolch i'r Cadeirydd a'r pwyllgor am gymryd yr amser i ystyried y pwnc pwysig yma? Rwy'n croesawu'r adroddiad a'r canfyddiadau sydd ynddo. Dwi'n cefnogi ac yn derbyn neu'n derbyn mewn egwyddor holl argymhellion y pwyllgor. Mae lot fawr yn yr adroddiad, a dwi ddim yn meddwl y caf amser i fynd drwy bob peth y prynhawn yma, ond dwi eisiau cymryd y cyfle nid yn unig i ddiolch i chi, ond hefyd i ddiolch i'r holl staff ar draws y sector iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol sydd wedi bod yn gweithio'n eithriadol o galed i drin a gofalu am nid yn unig y rheini sydd wedi bod yn dioddef o COVID-19, ond hefyd y rhai sy'n gofalu am gleifion eraill oedd ag anghenion brys, ac hefyd pobl eraill yn y sector iechyd oedd yn gofalu am y bobl mwyaf bregus yn ein cymunedau ni. 

Mae'r 11 mis diwethaf wedi bod yn ddi-baid, ac mae'r pandemig yn amlwg wedi cael effaith sylweddol ar ein cymunedau ni, ein cleifion a'n staff ni, a dwi'n cydnabod yn llawn y gofynion corfforol ac emosiynol anhygoel sydd wedi codi o ganlyniad i hyn. Rydym ni'n deall yn union yr effaith aruthrol sydd wedi bod ar iechyd meddwl y genedl, ond mae'n glir nad oes darlun llawn gennym ni eto o beth fydd yr effeithiau hirdymor a allai godi o ganlyniad i'r pandemig yn y maes iechyd meddwl. Dwi'n llwyr ddeall bod rhaid i effaith iechyd meddwl sy'n deillio o'r pandemig fod yn ganolog i'n hymateb ni i'r cynlluniau adfer, ac mae'n amlwg hefyd fod rhai wedi dioddef lot fwy nag eraill yn y sefyllfa yma, ac mae'n rhaid i ni fod yn sensitif i hynny hefyd.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. First of all, may I thank the Chair and the committee for taking time to consider this very important issue? I welcome the report and its findings. I support and accept or accept in principle all of the committee's recommendations. There's a great deal contained within the report, and I don't think I'll have time to go through everything this afternoon, but I do want to take this opportunity not only to thank you, but also to thank all of the staff across the health and social care sector who have been working so exceptionally hard to treat and to care for not only those who have been suffering from COVID-19, but also those who care for other patients that had emergency needs and others in the health sector who were caring for the most vulnerable people in our communities. 

The past 11 months have been unrelenting, and the pandemic has clearly had a significant impact on our communities, our patients and our staff, and I fully recognise the physical and emotional demands that have arisen as a result of this. So, we understand the huge impact that there has been on the nation's mental health, but it's clear that we don't yet have a full picture of what the long-term impacts that could arise from the pandemic in the area of mental health. I fully understand that the mental health impacts emerging from the pandemic must be central to our response to recovery plans, and it's also clear that some have suffered much more than others in this scenario and we have to be sensitive to that too.

Since the onset of the pandemic, we've put arrangements in place to understand the changes in mental health demands in order to develop our planning in this area, and these arrangements include regular reviews of the available evidence, including population surveys, weekly meetings with health boards and regular meetings with the third sector. But I do acknowledge and accept the point that was made by Lynne Neagle about the potential disconnect that we have seen, and it's something I've been really concerned about—hearing one thing from people from the third sector, hearing something else in terms of the figures that you get in a kind of cold document.

It's really important for me that I get a better sense of what it's looking like on the ground. I've made a real effort to listen to the third sector, to listen to young people. I listened to a group of young people this week from Platfform. You'll be aware that I'm getting regular updates on the situation in relation to CAMHS—weekly updates on that—and it's obviously something that is a standing item on our agenda on the task and finish group. So, I'm trying to get a better sense of where we're at. It is important, I think, if people can keep giving me examples of where it's not working; I think it's really important that I get to hear about that so we can really address the systems issue if that's where things are falling down.

Of course, responding to mental health needs requires a multi-agency and a multifaceted approach, and it's not something that the NHS can do or should do alone. What we've done is we've strengthened our cross-Government action in the 'Together for Mental Health' delivery plan, with an emphasis more on the social aspects and those economic aspects that we have to bear in mind all the time—so, looking at things like health and debt and housing, education and employment. This game is far from over. We don't know what's going to happen when furlough ends. What is that going to look like? People are really concerned about what their economic circumstances will be, and we know there's direct correlation between unemployment and mental health issues, so we've got to be sensitive to what may come down the line. I have recently had the opportunity to discuss this with my Cabinet colleagues—that potential for the socioeconomic impact of the pandemic on mental health—and we all agreed that we have to have a concerted, cross-Government approach to stem what could be a potential surge in demand for mental health services.

One of the things I'm really keen to do is to put more emphasis and more support and more money into that tier 1 support, that tier 0 support, really supporting the third sector, demedicalising where we can the issues relating to mental health. We've been putting other measures in place, like online cognitive behavioural therapy, and it's great to see that over 9,000 people have already accessed this kind of support. Rhun was asking where people go for information. 

Ers dechrau'r pandemig, rydym wedi rhoi trefniadau ar waith i ddeall y newidiadau yn y gofynion iechyd meddwl er mwyn datblygu ein gwaith cynllunio yn y maes hwn, ac mae'r trefniadau hyn yn cynnwys adolygiadau rheolaidd o'r dystiolaeth sydd ar gael, gan gynnwys arolygon poblogaeth, cyfarfodydd wythnosol gyda byrddau iechyd a chyfarfodydd rheolaidd gyda'r trydydd sector. Ond rwy'n cydnabod ac yn derbyn y pwynt a wnaeth Lynne Neagle am y datgysylltiad posibl a welsom, ac mae'n rhywbeth rwyf wedi bod yn pryderu'n fawr amdano—gan glywed un peth gan bobl o'r trydydd sector, a chlywed rhywbeth arall o ran y ffigurau a gewch mewn rhyw fath o ddogfen oer.

Mae'n bwysig iawn i mi fy mod yn cael gwell ymdeimlad o sut y mae'n edrych ar lawr gwlad. Rwyf wedi gwneud ymdrech wirioneddol i wrando ar y trydydd sector, i wrando ar bobl ifanc. Gwrandewais ar grŵp o bobl ifanc yr wythnos hon o Platfform. Fe wyddoch fy mod yn cael y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf yn rheolaidd am y sefyllfa mewn perthynas â CAMHS—diweddariadau wythnosol ar hynny—ac mae'n amlwg yn rhywbeth sy'n eitem sefydlog ar ein hagenda yn y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen. Felly, rwy'n ceisio cael gwell ymdeimlad o ble rydym arni. Os gall pobl barhau i roi enghreifftiau i mi o ble nad yw'n gweithio, rwy'n credu bod hynny'n bwysig; rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn fy mod yn cael clywed am hynny fel y gallwn fynd i'r afael go iawn â'r broblem gyda'r systemau os mai dyna lle mae pethau'n methu.

Wrth gwrs, mae ymateb i anghenion iechyd meddwl yn galw am ddull amlasiantaethol ac amlochrog o weithredu, ac nid yw'n rhywbeth y gall neu y dylai'r GIG ei wneud ar ei ben ei hun. Yr hyn a wnaethom oedd cryfhau ein camau gweithredu ar draws y Llywodraeth yn y cynllun cyflawni 'Law yn Llaw at Iechyd Meddwl', gyda phwyslais mwy ar yr agweddau cymdeithasol a'r agweddau economaidd sy'n rhaid inni eu cadw mewn cof drwy'r amser—felly, edrych ar bethau fel iechyd a dyled a thai, addysg a chyflogaeth. Mae'r gêm hon ymhell o fod drosodd. Ni wyddom beth sy'n mynd i ddigwydd pan ddaw ffyrlo i ben. Sut olwg fydd ar hynny? Mae pobl yn pryderu'n fawr ynglŷn â beth fydd eu hamgylchiadau economaidd, a gwyddom fod cydberthynas uniongyrchol rhwng diweithdra a phroblemau iechyd meddwl, felly mae'n rhaid i ni fod yn sensitif i'r hyn a allai ein hwynebu. Cefais gyfle'n ddiweddar i drafod hyn gyda fy nghyd-Weinidogion yn y Cabinet—effaith economaidd-gymdeithasol y pandemig ar iechyd meddwl—ac roeddem i gyd yn cytuno bod yn rhaid inni gael dull cydweithredol ar draws y Llywodraeth i atal yr hyn a allai fod yn ymchwydd posibl yn y galw am wasanaethau iechyd meddwl.

Un o'r pethau rwy'n awyddus iawn i'w wneud yw rhoi mwy o bwyslais a mwy o gefnogaeth a mwy o arian i gymorth haen 1, cymorth haen 0, a chefnogi'r trydydd sector o ddifrif, gan ddadfeddygoli'r problemau sydd ynghlwm wrth iechyd meddwl lle gallwn wneud hynny. Rydym wedi bod yn rhoi mesurau eraill ar waith, fel therapi gwybyddol ymddygiadol ar-lein, ac mae'n wych gweld bod dros 9,000 o bobl eisoes wedi gwneud defnydd o'r math hwn o gymorth. Roedd Rhun yn gofyn i ble mae pobl yn mynd am wybodaeth. 

Mae hwn yn rhywbeth roeddwn i'n rili keen i'w wneud. Roeddwn i'n awyddus iawn i weld beth fyddwn i'n ei wneud yn y sefyllfa yna. Ble byddech chi'n mynd os nad oeddech chi'n deall y system? Felly, rŷm ni wedi sicrhau bod pob awdurdod iechyd nawr wedi gorfod dangos yn glir ar eu gwefannau yn union beth yw'r gwasanaethau sydd ar gael yn y maes yma.

This was something I was very keen to do. I was very eager to see what I would do in that situation. What would you do if you don't understand the system? So, we've ensured that every health board has had to show clearly on their websites exactly what services are available in this area.

You've heard that there has been an additional commitment of £42 million. I'm sorry, David, that that wasn't recognised in the financial impact, but it was there, so the money is there and that takes us up to about £783 million that we spend annually now on mental health. That is really important for me. I'm testing out at the moment whether we're spending it in the right places. I'm slightly concerned that we need to look very seriously about whether we're spending that money in the right places. I certainly would want to see a clearer emphasis—in the knowledge that 80 per cent of mental health issues start when people are children and young people, I would like to see a rebalancing of funding going towards that end.

I'll be updating the committee shortly on progress in terms of delivering our response on perinatal mental health and suicide prevention, so I won't go into the detail of that here. But I have recognised the significant work that is going on already across the Welsh Government in terms of our 'Together for Mental Health' programme. One of the things I want to do is to keep an eye on delivery. Dai, you were asking about delivery—you know, what's our timetable. What I've done now is to pull together a ministerial delivery and oversight board for Wales, and we met for the first time last week. That's what I'm trying to do—just get a much better sense of what's going to be done at what point and whether we're on track. Because there's no point in developing a new programme unless we've delivered this programme. So—

Rydych wedi clywed bod ymrwymiad ychwanegol wedi'i wneud o £42 miliwn. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, David, nad oedd hynny'n cael ei gydnabod yn yr effaith ariannol, ond roedd yno, felly mae'r arian yno ac mae hynny'n golygu ein bod bellach yn gwario cyfanswm o oddeutu £783 miliwn yn flynyddol ar iechyd meddwl. Mae hynny'n bwysig iawn i mi. Rwy'n profi ar hyn o bryd i weld a ydym yn ei wario yn y mannau cywir. Rwy'n pryderu braidd fod angen i ni edrych o ddifrif i weld a ydym yn gwario'r arian hwnnw yn y mannau cywir. Byddwn yn sicr am weld pwyslais cliriach—gan wybod bod 80 y cant o broblemau iechyd meddwl yn dechrau pan fydd pobl yn blant a phobl ifanc, hoffwn weld ailgydbwyso cyllid yn mynd i'r perwyl hwnnw.

Byddaf yn rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r pwyllgor cyn bo hir am y cynnydd ar gyflawni ein hymateb ar iechyd meddwl amenedigol ac atal hunanladdiad, felly nid af i fanylion hynny yma. Ond rwyf wedi cydnabod y gwaith sylweddol sy'n mynd rhagddo eisoes ar draws Llywodraeth Cymru mewn perthynas â'n rhaglen 'Law yn Llaw at Iechyd Meddwl'. Un o'r pethau rwyf am ei wneud yw cadw llygad ar gyflawniad. Dai, roeddech yn gofyn ynglŷn â chyflawniad—wyddoch chi, beth yw ein hamserlen. Yr hyn rwyf wedi'i wneud yn awr yw cynnull bwrdd cyflawni a throsolwg gweinidogol i Gymru, ac fe wnaethom gyfarfod am y tro cyntaf yr wythnos diwethaf. Dyna beth rwy'n ceisio'i wneud—cael ymdeimlad llawer gwell o'r hyn sy'n mynd i gael ei wneud ar ba bwynt ac a ydym ar y trywydd iawn. Oherwydd nid oes unrhyw bwynt datblygu rhaglen newydd oni bai ein bod wedi cyflawni'r rhaglen hon. Felly—

16:25

The Minister needs to draw her comments to a close, please.

Mae angen i'r Gweinidog dynnu ei sylwadau i ben, os gwelwch yn dda.

Thank you. I've got so much more that I could say, but I just want to finally say something about the workforce. We have put a lot of measures in place. I am very concerned—I've met with the Royal College of Nursing, the Royal College of Psychiatrists and with GPs, and I think it's really important that we stand by these people who've been on the front line. As Rhun suggested, people have been through trauma here and we need to stand by them and it may take a while for all that to come through. So, we need to be there for them. 

But just finally to say thank you very much to the committee for this work and to give you an assurance that we're doing all we can to deliver in these really, really difficult circumstances.

Diolch. Mae gennyf gymaint mwy y gallwn ei ddweud, ond rwyf am ddweud rhywbeth am y gweithlu i gloi. Rydym wedi rhoi llawer o fesurau ar waith. Rwy'n bryderus iawn—rwyf wedi cyfarfod â Choleg Brenhinol y Nyrsys, Coleg Brenhinol y Seiciatryddion a chyda meddygon teulu, ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn ein bod yn sefyll gyda'r bobl hyn sydd wedi bod ar y rheng flaen. Fel yr awgrymodd Rhun, mae pobl wedi bod drwy drawma yma ac mae angen inni sefyll gyda hwy ac efallai y bydd yn cymryd amser i hynny i gyd ddod drwodd. Felly, mae angen inni fod yno ar eu cyfer.

Ond os caf orffen drwy ddweud diolch yn fawr iawn i'r pwyllgor am y gwaith hwn ac i roi sicrwydd i chi ein bod yn gwneud popeth yn ein gallu i gyflawni yn yr amgylchiadau gwirioneddol anodd hyn.

Thank you. I have no Member who has indicated that they want to make an intervention. Therefore, I'll ask Dai Lloyd to reply to the debate.

Diolch. Nid oes gennyf Aelod sydd wedi dweud eu bod am wneud ymyriad. Felly, gofynnaf i Dai Lloyd ymateb i'r ddadl.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Wel, dyma ddadl wych. Buaswn i, fel y mae eraill wedi ei grybwyll, wedi hoffi petai'r ddadl yn gallu mynd ymlaen yn hirach, ond rydyn ni lle rydyn ni, fel rydym yn ei ddweud. Mae hwn wedi bod yn adroddiad manwl iawn; roedd yna gryn dipyn o waith wedi mynd i mewn i'r adroddiad yma a'r adroddiadau eraill yr oedden ni wedi cyfeirio atyn nhw—adroddiadau blaenorol y pwyllgor iechyd, yn enwedig ar atal hunanladdiad, ac, wrth gwrs, yr adroddiadau bendigedig gan y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg o dan gadeiryddiaeth fendigedig Lynne Neagle. Hoffwn dalu teyrnged i waith Lynne Neagle fel Cadeirydd y pwyllgor hwnnw. Mae'r cydweithio wedi bod yn arbennig a dwi'n credu bod y ddau bwyllgor wedi gallu cyflawni llawer mwy na'r ddau bwyllgor ar wahân, megis, wrth gydweithio yn yr un un meysydd, ond gyda gwahanol oedrannau. Achos doedd yna ddim modd, y rhan fwyaf o'r amser, i'r pwyllgor iechyd ymgymryd â gwaith i wneud efo phlant a phobl ifanc. Roedd hi'n bwysig bod rhywun yn gwneud hynna, a dwi'n ddiolchgar iawn i Lynne Neagle a'i phwyllgor am hynna.

Wrth gwrs, mae'r her iechyd meddwl, o ganlyniad i'r pandemig yma, yn her enfawr—rydyn ni'n deall hynna. Ond mae eisiau pwysleisio hynna, achos dydyn ni ddim wedi gweld ei hanner e mor belled. Yn ogystal, wrth gwrs, mae yna lefel o bryder naturiol mewn unrhyw gymdeithas sy'n deillio o ryw drychineb torfol sydd wedi digwydd. Dyna beth rydyn ni'n ei wynebu rŵan; mae yna drychineb torfol yn dal i ddigwydd. Yn naturiol, mae yna lefel o bryder mewn unrhyw unigolyn, sydd ddim, o reidrwydd, yn mynd ymlaen i aflonyddu ar ei iechyd meddwl, ond mae angen delio efo fo ta beth, a'r ffordd naturiol o wneud hynny, fel mae eraill wedi'i ddweud—a diolch i David Melding am ei gyfraniad urddasol, aeddfed ynglŷn ag edrych yn ehangach yn nhermau iechyd cyhoeddus, ymarfer corff, ac ati—yw i ddelio efo'r lefel o bryder yna sydd ddim yn cwympo i mewn i ddiffiniad 'afiechyd meddwl' hefyd. Mae pawb yn teimlo hynna. Dwi'n diolch i Rhun ap Iorwerth hefyd am ei gyfraniad doeth, fel arfer, ac am bob cefnogaeth fel aelod o'r pwyllgor.

I grynhoi ac i gloi, dwi'n diolch i Eluned Morgan, y Gweinidog, am ei chyfraniad ac am ei doethineb hithau hefyd wrth ymateb mor ystyrlon i'n hargymhellion ni. Dwi hefyd, mae'n rhaid imi ddweud, yn croesawu ei phenodiad hi yn y lle cyntaf, sydd yn adlewyrchiad o bwysigrwydd yr agenda hon. Mae'n bwysig ein bod ni'n mynd i'r afael efo'r holl heriau. Gaf i gloi drwy ddiolch i'n clercod a'n hymchwilwyr am eu gwaith dygn a manwl, diflino bob amser? Mynd i'r afael—mae'r casgliadau hynny'n barod o'n hadroddiadau blaenorol ni fel pwyllgor, a phwyllgor Lynne Neagle, ac mae'n rhaid mynd i'r afael â nhw. Diolch yn fawr iawn i bawb. Cefnogwch y cynnig.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. We've had an excellent debate. I, like others have suggested, would've liked to have seen the debate scheduled for longer, but we are where we are, as they say. This is a very detailed report; a great deal of work went into it, as well as the other reports that we referred to—the previous reports of the health committee on suicide prevention and, of course, the excellent reports by the Children, Young People and Education Committee under the excellent chairing of Lynne Neagle. I would like to pay tribute to the work of Lynne Neagle, as the Chair of that committee. The collaboration has been excellent and I think both committees have been able to achieve so much more, in working together, than they could've done alone in the same areas, but with different age groups. Because it wasn't possible, on most occasions, for the health committee to undertake work related to children and young people, but it was important that that was done, and I'm hugely grateful to Lynne Neagle and her committee for that.

Of course, the mental health challenge as a result of this pandemic is a huge one—we understand that. But we need to emphasise it, because we haven't seen the half of it to date. In addition to that, there is a level of anxiety that occurs naturally in any society that emerges from some mass emergency. We have seen that occurring and it is still happening. Obviously, there would be a level of anxiety in any individual, which wouldn't necessarily have an impact on mental health, but it does need to be dealt with, and the natural way of doing that, as others have said—and thank you to David Melding for his mature and dignified contribution in terms of looking in broader terms at public health in terms of physical activity and so on—is to deal with that level of anxiety that doesn't fall within the definition of 'mental health problems'. Everyone feels that. I thank Rhun ap Iorwerth too for his wise words, as usual, and for his support as a member of the committee.

To conclude, I'm grateful to the Minister, Eluned Morgan, for her contribution and for her wisdom in responding in such a meaningful way to our recommendations. I also have to say that I welcome her appointment in the first instance, which is a reflection of the importance of this agenda. It's important that we tackle all of the challenges. May I conclude by thanking our clerks and researchers for their unstinting work on all occasions? The conclusions are there from our previous reports as a committee, as well as Lynne Neagle's committee's reports, and we must address them. Thank you very much. Support the motion.

Thank you. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? I don't see any objections. Therefore, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36, the motion is agreed.

Diolch. Y cynnig yw nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nid wyf yn gweld unrhyw wrthwynebiadau. Felly, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36, derbynnir y cynnig.

16:30

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

7. Dadl ar ddeisebau ynghylch rhaglen frechu COVID-19: P-05-1117 'Rhowch y Brechlyn Covid i Swyddogion yr Heddlu fel blaenoriaeth', P-05-1119, 'Blaenoriaethu athrawon, a staff ysgolion a gofal plant ar gyfer brechiadau COVID-19'
7. Debate on petitions concerning the COVID-19 vaccination programme: P-05-1117 'Give Police Officers the Covid Vaccination as a priority', P-05-1119 'Prioritise teachers, school and childcare staff for COVID-19 vaccination'

Item 7 on our agenda this afternoon is a debate on petitions concerning the COVID-19 vaccination programme. I call on the Chair of the Petitions Committee to move the motion—Janet Finch-Saunders.

Eitem 7 ar ein hagenda y prynhawn yma yw dadl ar ddeisebau ynghylch rhaglen frechu COVID-19. Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Deisebau i wneud y cynnig—Janet Finch-Saunders.

Cynnig NDM7608 Janet Finch-Saunders

Cynnig bod y Senedd:

Yn nodi’r deisebau canlynol ynglŷn â’r rhaglen frechiadau COVID-19:

a) Deiseb P-05-1117 'Rhowch y Brechlyn COVID i Swyddogion yr Heddlu fel blaenoriaeth' a gasglodd 10,879 o lofnodion;

b) Deiseb P-05-1119 'Blaenoriaethu athrawon, a staff ysgolion a gofal plant ar gyfer brechiadau COVID-19' a gasglodd 16,288 o lofnodion.

Motion NDM7608 Janet Finch-Saunders

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the following petitions concerning the COVID-19 vaccination programme:

a) Petition P-05-1117 'Give Police Officers the Covid Vaccination as a priority' which received 10,879 signatures;

b) Petition P-05-1119 'Prioritise teachers, school and childcare staff for COVID-19 vaccination’ which received 16,288 signatures.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer—diolch. I want to start by thanking the Business Committee for agreeing to the debate requests that the Petitions Committee has made in recent weeks. It is fair to say that they've had a very difficult job, given the number of debates that have come forward for requests and the number of petitions that we've received with very, very large numbers.

Now, this debate, the first of two to be held by our committee this afternoon, will cover two large petitions concerning the prioritisation of key professions during the COVID-19 vaccination programme. The first asks for police officers to be given the COVID-19 vaccination as a priority, whilst the second petition calls for prioritisation to be given to teachers and school and childcare staff.

These are two of a number of petitions submitted to the Senedd about such issues, which have also included ones calling for others, such as retail staff, telecommunications engineers, volunteer emergency services—for all of them to be considered as a priority for vaccination. The importance of getting the vaccination programme right is clear to us all, and each of these groups do have legitimate cases as to why they could be offered the vaccine early.

I will now briefly introduce the cases that have been put forward in the two specific petitions for debate today. The first, ‘Give Police Officers the Covid Vaccination as a priority’, was submitted by Graham Bishop with 10,879 signatures. Though it gained wider support from the police federation and others, the reasoning behind this petition was personal.

The petitioner’s son is a police officer who contracted COVID. This had a knock-on impact on his family, as the virus was transmitted to his wife, who was pregnant and who then delivered twins early whilst hospitalised due to the virus. Subsequently, his son has also experienced the debilitating effects of long COVID. I’d like to take this opportunity to pass on our best wishes to the petitioner and his family following this very difficult set of circumstances.

Members, all of our front-line emergency workers put themselves at risk every day when carrying out their duties, something COVID-19 has served to both highlight and accentuate. I want to pay tribute to everyone who has continued to carry out their roles through this dreadful pandemic, sometimes at considerable personal cost, including our police officers, who, of course, serve the public with such distinction.

Now, the second petition, 'Prioritise teachers, school and childcare staff for COVID-19 vaccination', was submitted by Jonathan Môn Hughes with a total of 16,288 signatures. This one highlights risks in relation to asymptomatic spread of COVID-19 within schools and the risk that some teachers may face from contracting the virus, as well as the number of teaching days lost due to school closures and periods of self-isolation.

I’d also like to take this chance to note my thanks to all staff in any education setting, and also to include our childcare settings, who have continued to provide vital support and education to our young children throughout this difficult pandemic.

The issue of vaccinations has had a high profile, of course, and has been raised repeatedly by teaching unions and others, particularly in the context of the return of pupils to schools. Arguments for taking a proactive approach to vaccinating school staff have included, firstly, providing increased protection to staff who come into close contact with pupils and, secondly, the potential benefit in reducing the amount of teaching time lost by pupils.

As time is short, I will leave it to other contributors to discuss the merits, or otherwise, of the cases being put forward by these petitions. To conclude, it is important to reference the decision announced by the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation—the JCVI—at the end of last week, which is of major relevance to these proceedings. Having continued to review the emerging evidence around the vaccination programme, they concluded that it should continue to be delivered on the basis of age and other medical factors, rather than prioritised on the basis of occupation. I imagine that the Minister will wish to say more about this decision and the implications for the Welsh vaccination roll-out towards the end of this debate. I want to acknowledge, of course, that this will be a blow to those behind these petitions. I look forward to the contributions of other Members during the rest of this debate. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddiolch i'r Pwyllgor Busnes am gytuno i'r ceisiadau am ddadleuon y mae'r Pwyllgor Deisebau wedi'u gwneud yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf. Mae'n deg dweud eu bod wedi cael gwaith anodd iawn, o ystyried nifer y dadleuon sydd wedi'u cyflwyno ar gyfer gwneud ceisiadau a nifer y deisebau a ddaeth i law gyda niferoedd mawr iawn o lofnodion.

Nawr, bydd y ddadl hon, y gyntaf o ddwy i'w cynnal gan ein pwyllgor y prynhawn yma, yn ymdrin â dwy ddeiseb fawr yn ymwneud â blaenoriaethu proffesiynau allweddol yn ystod rhaglen frechu COVID-19. Mae'r gyntaf yn gofyn am roi'r brechiad COVID-19 i swyddogion yr heddlu fel blaenoriaeth, tra bo'r ail ddeiseb yn galw am roi blaenoriaeth i athrawon a staff ysgolion a gofal plant.

Dwy yw'r rhain o nifer o ddeisebau a gyflwynwyd i'r Senedd ynghylch materion o'r fath, deisebau sydd hefyd wedi cynnwys rhai'n galw am ystyried blaenoriaethu eraill, megis staff manwerthu, peirianwyr telathrebu, gwasanaethau brys gwirfoddol—i bob un ohonynt gael eu hystyried yn flaenoriaeth ar gyfer brechu. Mae pwysigrwydd cael y rhaglen frechu'n iawn yn glir i bob un ohonom, ac mae gan bob un o'r grwpiau hyn achos dilys pam y gellid cynnig y brechlyn iddynt yn gynnar.

Rwyf am gyflwyno'n fyr yr achosion sydd wedi'u cyflwyno yn y ddwy ddeiseb benodol sydd dan sylw heddiw. Cyflwynwyd y gyntaf, 'Rhowch y Brechlyn COVID i Swyddogion yr Heddlu fel blaenoriaeth', gan Graham Bishop gyda 10,879 o lofnodion. Er iddi gael cefnogaeth ehangach gan ffederasiwn yr heddlu ac eraill, roedd y rhesymau dros y ddeiseb hon yn bersonol.

Mae mab y deisebydd yn swyddog heddlu a ddaliodd COVID. Cafodd hyn effaith ganlyniadol ar ei deulu, wrth i'r feirws gael ei drosglwyddo i'w wraig, a oedd yn feichiog ac a esgorodd ar efeilliaid yn gynnar tra oedd yn yr ysbyty oherwydd y feirws. Wedi hynny, mae ei fab hefyd wedi profi effeithiau gwanychol COVID hir. Hoffwn fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn i fynegi ein dymuniadau gorau i'r deisebydd a'i deulu yn dilyn y set anodd iawn hon o amgylchiadau.

Aelodau, mae pob un o'n gweithwyr brys rheng flaen yn peryglu eu hunain bob dydd wrth gyflawni eu dyletswyddau, rhywbeth y mae COVID-19 wedi'i amlygu a'i ddwysáu. Hoffwn dalu teyrnged i bawb sydd wedi parhau i gyflawni eu swyddogaethau drwy'r pandemig ofnadwy hwn, weithiau ar gost bersonol sylweddol, gan gynnwys ein swyddogion heddlu, sydd, wrth gwrs, yn gwasanaethu'r cyhoedd mor ardderchog.

Nawr, cyflwynwyd yr ail ddeiseb, 'Blaenoriaethu athrawon, a staff ysgolion a gofal plant ar gyfer brechiadau COVID-19', gan Jonathan Môn Hughes gyda chyfanswm o 16,288 o lofnodion. Mae'r ddeiseb hon yn tynnu sylw at risgiau mewn perthynas â lledaeniad asymptomatig COVID-19 mewn ysgolion a'r risg y gallai rhai athrawon ei wynebu o ddal y feirws, yn ogystal â nifer y diwrnodau addysgu a gollir oherwydd cau ysgolion a chyfnodau o hunanynysu.

Hoffwn innau hefyd fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn i nodi fy niolch i'r holl staff mewn unrhyw leoliad addysg, a chynnwys hefyd ein lleoliadau gofal plant, sydd wedi parhau i ddarparu cymorth ac addysg hanfodol i'n plant ifanc drwy gydol y pandemig anodd hwn.

Mae mater brechiadau wedi cael llawer o sylw wrth gwrs, ac mae undebau athrawon ac eraill wedi'i godi dro ar ôl tro, yn enwedig yng nghyd-destun disgyblion yn dychwelyd i ysgolion. Mae dadleuon dros fabwysiadu ymagwedd ragweithiol tuag at frechu staff ysgolion wedi cynnwys, yn gyntaf, darparu mwy o amddiffyniad i staff sy'n dod i gysylltiad agos â disgyblion ac yn ail, y budd posibl o leihau faint o amser addysgu a gollir gan ddisgyblion.

Gan fod amser yn brin, rwyf am adael i gyfranwyr eraill drafod rhinweddau, neu fel arall, yr achosion a gyflwynir gan y deisebau hyn. I gloi, mae'n bwysig cyfeirio at y penderfyniad a gyhoeddwyd gan y Cyd-bwyllgor ar Imiwneiddio a Brechu ddiwedd yr wythnos diwethaf, sy'n berthnasol iawn i'r trafodion hyn. Ar ôl parhau i adolygu'r dystiolaeth sy'n dod i'r amlwg ynghylch y rhaglen frechu, daethant i'r casgliad y dylid parhau i'w chyflwyno ar sail oedran a ffactorau meddygol eraill, yn hytrach na blaenoriaethu ar sail galwedigaeth. Rwy'n tybio y bydd y Gweinidog am ddweud mwy am y penderfyniad hwn a'r goblygiadau i gyflwyno brechlynnau yng Nghymru ar ddiwedd y ddadl hon. Rwyf am gydnabod, wrth gwrs, y bydd hon yn ergyd i'r rheini a gyflwynodd y deisebau hyn. Edrychaf ymlaen at gyfraniadau'r Aelodau eraill yn ystod gweddill y ddadl hon. Diolch yn fawr.

16:35

As the petition regarding police officers states, they are in high-risk jobs. Speaking here in January, I highlighted calls by the North Wales Police Federation for policing to be considered for some priority on the COVID-19 vaccination programme. As they stated,

'Day in, day out, police officers put their own safety, health and wellbeing at risk whilst protecting us all. Sadly, in North Wales, we have seen many colleagues who have become unwell with Covid-19, some requiring hospital treatment, and many more having to self-isolate.'

And they expressed concern that people in non-priority groups were receiving the vaccine ahead of front-line police officers. When I raised this with the health Minister, he dodged this by instead referring to the impact on priority groups. A subsequent e-mail from a front-line North Wales Police officer stated:

'There is always a sense of shock and bewilderment when I speak to people and inform them that Police are not considered a priority group for the vaccine'

'I ask that the Welsh Government commit to giving policing some priority’—

where—

'We need to protect the protectors who ultimately protect us all.'

And North Wales Police Federation told me they'd been contacted by

'very reliable sources working within the vaccination centres who advise that hospital secretaries and even social workers – who are working from home – are receiving the vaccine yet frontline policing is still not considered to be a risk nor even being allowed to use up any spare/unused vaccines’—

adding—

'Even if we could get frontline police officers on a standby list, like is happening in some parts of England.'

Speaking here in February, I asked the First Minister why this wasn't happening in Wales. Again, the response related to priority groups, conflating two separate issues.

Betsi Cadwaladr University Heath Board stated in February:

'No vaccines will go to waste as we're using a stand-by list created in accordance with the national priority groups.'

As I said here, when we hear of the numerous examples of people not in the priority groups receiving leftover vaccines, surely any stand-by list should prioritise people like front-line police officers and teachers. Given that people not in priority groups were receiving the vaccine, why wouldn't the Welsh Government admit it and instead prioritise on stand-by lists those whose employment means that they run the risk of coming into contact with people infected with COVID when vaccines would otherwise go to waste?

Last week, Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board stated that they had now finalised an agreed stand-by list of staff who will be called upon if any vaccines become available at the end of the day, including North Wales Police staff, following national advice and guidance. But as North Wales Police Federation then told me, 'It's still far from perfect, but we're getting there slowly.'

Fel y dywed y ddeiseb ar swyddogion yr heddlu, maent mewn swyddi risg uchel. Wrth siarad yma ym mis Ionawr, tynnais sylw at alwadau gan Ffederasiwn Heddlu Gogledd Cymru i blismona gael ei ystyried ar gyfer rhywfaint o flaenoriaeth ar raglen frechu COVID-19. Fel y dywedasant,

O ddydd i ddydd, mae swyddogion yr heddlu'n peryglu eu diogelwch, eu hiechyd a'u lles eu hunain wrth iddynt ein diogelu ni i gyd. Yn anffodus, yng Ngogledd Cymru, rydym wedi gweld llawer o gydweithwyr yn mynd yn sâl gyda Covid-19, a rhai angen triniaeth yn yr ysbyty, a llawer mwy yn gorfod hunanynysu.

Ac roeddent yn mynegi pryder fod pobl mewn grwpiau nad ydynt yn cael blaenoriaeth yn cael y brechlyn cyn swyddogion rheng flaen yr heddlu. Pan godais hyn gyda'r Gweinidog iechyd, fe wnaeth osgoi'r cwestiwn drwy gyfeirio'n hytrach at yr effaith ar grwpiau blaenoriaeth. Dywedodd e-bost dilynol gan un o swyddogion rheng flaen Heddlu Gogledd Cymru:

Mae yna bob amser ymdeimlad o sioc a dryswch pan fyddaf yn siarad â phobl ac yn eu hysbysu nad yw'r Heddlu'n cael eu hystyried yn grŵp blaenoriaeth ar gyfer y brechlyn.

Gofynnaf i Lywodraeth Cymru ymrwymo i roi blaenoriaeth i blismona—

lle—

Mae'n rhaid i ni ddiogelu'r diogelwyr sy'n ein diogelu ni i gyd yn y pen draw.

A dywedodd Ffederasiwn Heddlu Gogledd Cymru wrthyf eu bod wedi clywed gan

ffynonellau dibynadwy iawn sy'n gweithio yn y canolfannau brechu yn dweud bod ysgrifenyddion ysbytai a hyd yn oed gweithwyr cymdeithasol—sy'n gweithio gartref—yn cael y brechlyn ond nid ystyrir bod plismona rheng flaen yn creu risg o hyd ac nid ydynt yn cael defnyddio unrhyw frechlynnau sbâr/nas defnyddiwyd hyd yn oed—

ac ychwanegodd—

Hyd yn oed pe gallem gael swyddogion heddlu rheng flaen ar restr wrth gefn, fel sy'n digwydd mewn rhai rhannau o Loegr.

Wrth siarad yma ym mis Chwefror, gofynnais i'r Prif Weinidog pam nad oedd hyn yn digwydd yng Nghymru. Unwaith eto, roedd yr ymateb yn ymwneud â grwpiau blaenoriaeth, gan gyfuno dau fater gwahanol.

Dywedodd Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr ym mis Chwefror:

Ni fydd unrhyw frechlynnau'n cael eu gwastraffu gan ein bod yn defnyddio rhestr wrth gefn a grëwyd yn unol â'r grwpiau blaenoriaeth cenedlaethol.

Fel y dywedais yma, pan glywn am yr enghreifftiau niferus o bobl nad ydynt yn y grwpiau blaenoriaeth sy'n cael brechlynnau dros ben, does bosibl na ddylai unrhyw restr wrth gefn flaenoriaethu pobl fel swyddogion heddlu rheng flaen ac athrawon. O ystyried bod pobl nad oeddent mewn grwpiau blaenoriaeth yn cael y brechlyn, pam na fyddai Llywodraeth Cymru yn cyfaddef hynny ac yn hytrach yn blaenoriaethu ar restrau wrth gefn y rhai y mae eu gwaith yn golygu eu bod yn wynebu'r risg o ddod i gysylltiad â phobl sydd wedi'u heintio â COVID pan fyddai brechlynnau'n cael eu gwastraffu fel arall?

Yr wythnos diwethaf, dywedodd Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr eu bod bellach wedi cwblhau a chytuno ar restr wrth gefn o staff y gelwir arnynt os bydd unrhyw frechlynnau'n dod ar gael ar ddiwedd dydd, gan gynnwys staff Heddlu Gogledd Cymru, yn dilyn cyngor ac arweiniad cenedlaethol. Ond fel y dywedodd Ffederasiwn Heddlu Gogledd Cymru wrthyf wedyn, 'Mae'n dal i fod ymhell o fod yn berffaith, ond rydym yn cyrraedd yno'n araf.'

Mae gennym ni ddwy ddeiseb o'n blaenau ni heddiw—y naill yn apêl am flaenoriaeth i swyddogion yr heddlu am frechiad COVID, y llall am flaenoriaethu staff ysgolion a gofal plant. Mi fydd y Gweinidog yn gwybod fy mod i wedi codi y materion hyn efo fo ar sawl achlysur erbyn hyn. Rhyw gwyno oedd o yn y pwyllgor iechyd y bore yma fy mod i wedi codi'r mater dair gwaith mewn ychydig ddyddiau. Ond mae'n ddrwg gen i, fel yna mae scrutiny yn gweithio. Dwi'n falch o gael codi rhai o'r cwestiynau y prynhawn yma eto wrth gefnogi a chydymdeimlo efo'r deisebwyr. Y rheswm dwi'n cefnogi a chydymdeimlo efo'r alwad yma i sicrhau bod yna drefn yn cael ei rhoi mewn lle i frechu pobl mewn swyddi sy'n wynebu'r cyhoedd—ac mi allwn i ychwanegu eraill hefyd—ydy nid mod i'n amau rhestr flaenoriaeth y JCVI fel y cyfryw; mae'n gwneud perffaith synnwyr mai'r hynaf neu'r mwyaf bregus ydy rhywun, y mwyaf tebyg ydy eu bod nhw yn mynd yn sâl neu yn waeth. Ond dwi'n dal yn grediniol bod exposure yn cyfrannu at y risg hefyd, beth bynnag ydy oed rhywun. Mi gafodd gweithwyr iechyd a gofal eu blaenoriaethu—wrth gwrs eu bod nhw wedi cael eu blaenoriaethu. Maen nhw wedi rhoi eu hunain mewn sefyllfaoedd o risg ryfeddol dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Mae ein diolch ni iddyn nhw yn fawr iawn, iawn.

Ond, ar lefel is, mae yna swyddi eraill lle mae pobl yn wynebu risg o ddod i gyswllt â'r feirws, lawer mwy na phobl fel chi a fi. Dwi wedi bod yn falch iawn o allu chwarae rôl fach iawn fel gwas cyhoeddus dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, yn dal y Llywodraeth i gyfrif, ond dwi wedi gwneud hynny o fan hyn. Y rheswm dwi wedi bod yn gweithio o adref ydy i drio atal lledaeniad y feirws ac i fy nghadw i a fy nheulu'n ddiogel, ond dydy eraill ddim yn gallu gweithio o adref.

Rydym ni i gyd eisiau i ysgolion allu ailagor, ond mae hynny'n golygu mwy o risg i rai o'r bobl sydd yn gysylltiedig â hynny, yn cynnwys staff mewn ysgolion. Dwi'n deall bod yna ddigwyddiad wedi bod yn y dyddiau diwethaf yn Ynys Môn, lle gwnaeth rywun boeri ar heddwas a phrofi yn bositif maes o law. Mae angen adfer hyder pobl bod popeth posib yn cael ei wneud i ymateb i'r gwahanol lefelau o risg. A gwnaf, mi wnaf i gefnogi yn llwyr y Gweinidog a'i ymdrech i fynd drwy'r rhestr flaenoriaethau, fel mae o wedi cael ei nodi gan y JCVI, yn ôl oedran cyn gynted â phosib. Ond siawns bod yna fodd, ochr yn ochr â hynny, i sicrhau bod gweision cyhoeddus eraill, pobl mewn swyddi allweddol sydd yn wynebu risg o ddydd i ddydd, yn gallu cael eu blaenoriaethu hefyd. Dydy hynny ddim yn golygu dadflaenoriaethu eraill, er fy mod i, fel dwi wedi'i ddweud o'r blaen, oherwydd fy mod i'n gweithio yn fan hyn, yn fodlon i gael fy nadflaenoriaethu er mwyn i bobl sydd yn wynebu'r cyhoedd allu cael eu brechu o fy mlaen i.

We have two petitions before us today—one an appeal for prioritisation for police officers for COVID vaccination, the other the prioritisation of school staff and childcare staff. The Minister will be aware that I have raised these issues with him on a number of occasions. He was complaining in the health committee this morning that I'd brought the issue up three times in just a few days. But I'm sorry, that's how scrutiny works, and I'm pleased to raise some of those questions again this afternoon in supporting and sympathising with the petitioners. The reason I do sympathise with and support this call to ensure that a system is put in place to vaccinate people in public-facing roles—and we could add others to the list—is not because I doubt the JCVI's prioritisation list; it makes sense that the oldest or more vulnerable should be on top of the list, because they are most likely to become ill or worse. But I'm still convinced that exposure does contribute to the risk too, whatever one's age. Health and care workers were prioritised—of course they were. They have put themselves in extremely high-risk scenarios over the past year, and our thanks to them is very great indeed.

But, at a lower level, there are other roles where people face a risk of coming into contact with the virus far more than people like you and I. I've been very proud to play a very small role as a public servant over the past year in holding the Government to account, and I've done that from here. The reason I've been working from home is to try and prevent the spread of the virus and to keep myself and my family safe. But others aren't able to work from home.

We all want schools to reopen, but that means more risk to some of the people associated with that, including school staff. I understand that an incident occurred recently on Anglesey, where somebody spat at a police officer and tested positive subsequently. We need to restore people's confidence that everything possible is being done to respond to the various levels of risk. And, yes, I will fully support the Minister and his efforts to go through the prioritisation list, as it's been set out by the JCVI, according to age, as soon as possible. But, surely, along with that, we can ensure that other public servants, those in key roles who do face a day-to-day risk can also be prioritised. That doesn't mean deprioritising others, although I, as I have said in the past, because I work in this place, am happy to be deprioritised so that those in public-facing roles can be vaccinated before me.

16:40

Thank you. Can I now call the Minister for Health and Social Services, Vaughan Gething?

Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar Vaughan Gething, y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol?

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. There is of course no doubt in anyone's mind about the contribution of key workers during the pandemic. The people who have kept us going throughout the height of the pandemic in the different ways we've experienced—workers not just in health and social care but in manufacturing, police, the armed forces, education, transport, utilities, local and national Government, postal workers, essential retail, food production and delivery, all of these people have kept us fed, cared for, taught, connected and safe. And they deserve our thanks and recognition, not just now but beyond the pandemic, and vaccination is part of the way out of these tough times and the necessary restrictions that have been placed on our everyday lives. And the signs are encouraging, with the research published by Public Health Scotland last week, and Public Health England, showing significant positive impact from vaccination, and the AstraZeneca-Oxford study on a helpful sign about transmission being reduced with the vaccine as well.

Now, it would be wonderful if I could give this protection to everyone overnight, but we know that we can't do that and that we do face a need to prioritise. And, as we all know, the first phase of the roll-out involved vaccinating mainly by age and clinical vulnerability. By the end of phase 1, in around seven weeks' or so time, we'll have protected those groups in which 99 per cent of all deaths have occurred to date. I know there have been many calls for prioritising the vaccine for specific occupational groups in the next phase, particularly police and teachers, but others too, as the Petitions Committee have recognised. And I understand the reasons why a case is made for those groups or other key workers. Professor Wei Shen Lim, the chair of the independent and expert Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, recently said:

'Vaccinations stop people from dying and the current strategy is to prioritise those who are more likely to have severe outcomes and die from Covid-19.'

That remains the key aim of our COVID vaccination programme. The JCVI has reviewed the evidence to understand the association between occupation and the risk of exposure and harm from COVID-19, and there are specific risk factors for a greater risk of serious harm, and they include older age, an over-representation of certain underlying health conditions in some jobs, socioeconomic deprivation, household size and an inability to work from home. Occupational risk associated with poorer outcomes with COVID-19 has predominately affected, in the evidence that JCVI considered, men between the ages of 40 and 49, for all those people outside the current nine priority groups. The evidence suggests that there are a combination of factors, not just occupation alone, that lead to poorer outcomes in certain groups. We should remind ourselves that those poorer outcomes include people dying; we've seen significant mortality to date.

The JCVI advice also highlighted that delivery of a programme targeting occupational groups would be complex. The NHS knows how old you are, but it isn't likely to know what job you do with the same level of accuracy. The JCVI have concluded there was insufficient evidence to advise the four Governments of the UK to prioritise certain occupational groups in the next phase of the vaccination programme. An age-based model was identified as the quickest to deliver and protect the greatest number of people in the shortest period of time. And our broad understanding is that about half of key workers who have yet to be vaccinated are in the 40 to 49 age bracket. It is hard to objectively disagree with a programme designed to vaccinate the largest number of people in the shortest space of time to ensure that the most people are protected. And what we must not forget is that, for the first phase of the programme, the JCVI advised prioritisation again based on age and vulnerability. That was advice was adopted by all four UK nations—four different UK Governments, four different health Ministers, who have very different political traditions and loyalties, but we've all agreed on the nature of the advice that we have and how to provide the biggest impact on keeping our respective populations safe. And the success of the vaccination programme is undeniable and evident in both the Public Health Scotland and the Public Health England data published last week.

Now, I recognise some of the points that have been made in comments. I didn't quite agree with the presentation of Mr Isherwood's version of what's happened, because, actually, police officers have been on lists for end-of-day vaccine. In fact, I've had conversations with the police and crime commissioners in other parts of Wales who have noted that North Wales Police have actually had higher numbers of people vaccinated in that end-of-day supply. And we've clarified the position to make it clear that end-of-day supply—to make sure the vaccine doesn't go to waste, police and other key workers can, of course, be on that. I don't think that's a matter of controversy now. And it's—. Mr Isherwood will, of course, take his own view, but I don't think the facts support his version of events.

I also just need to make this point generally. This isn't about asking people to have some prioritisation, because if you prioritise any group, you are deprioritising other people. And a police officer in their 20s is at less risk overall than a police officer in their 40s, just as is the same with a teacher in their 20s, compared to a teacher in their 40s, or a post officer worker in their 20s or in their 40s. We're dealing with the evidence on how to protect people from harm, and I would need strong and incontrovertible evidence to depart from the advice of the independent, expert JCVI. I believe I am doing what any responsible health Minister should and would do to keep their country safe in the midst of an unfinished pandemic: follow the evidence, the science and the public health advice to save as many lives as possible. That is exactly what I will continue to do, and I look forward to doing so with an excellent team of people across the country to help keep Wales safe and deliver this vaccination programme as quickly as possible. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.

Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Wrth gwrs, nid oes amheuaeth ym meddwl unrhyw un ynglŷn â chyfraniad gweithwyr allweddol yn ystod y pandemig. Y bobl sydd wedi ein cadw i fynd drwy gydol y pandemig ar ei waethaf yn y gwahanol ffyrdd rydym wedi'u profi—gweithwyr nid yn unig ym maes iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol ond ym maes gweithgynhyrchu, yr heddlu, y lluoedd arfog, addysg, trafnidiaeth, cyfleustodau, Llywodraeth leol a chenedlaethol, gweithwyr post, manwerthu hanfodol, cynhyrchu a darparu bwyd, mae'r holl bobl hyn wedi ein bwydo, gofalu amdanom, ein haddysgu, ein cadw mewn cysylltiad ac yn ddiogel. Ac maent yn haeddu ein diolch a'n cydnabyddiaeth, nid yn unig nawr ond y tu hwnt i'r pandemig, ac mae brechu yn rhan o'r ffordd allan o'r cyfnod anodd hwn a'r cyfyngiadau angenrheidiol sydd wedi'u gosod ar ein bywydau bob dydd. Ac mae'r arwyddion yn galonogol, gyda'r ymchwil a gyhoeddwyd gan Public Health Scotland yr wythnos diwethaf, a Public Health England, yn dangos effaith gadarnhaol sylweddol o frechu, ac astudiaeth AstraZeneca-Rhydychen hefyd ar arwydd calonogol fod y brechlyn yn lleihau trosglwyddiad.

Nawr, byddai'n wych pe gallwn roi'r amddiffyniad hwn i bawb dros nos, ond gwyddom na allwn wneud hynny a'n bod yn wynebu'r angen i flaenoriaethu. Ac fel y gwyddom i gyd, roedd cam cyntaf y broses o gyflwyno'r brechlyn yn galw am frechu'n bennaf yn ôl oedran a gwendid clinigol. Erbyn diwedd cam 1, ymhen tua saith wythnos, byddwn wedi diogelu'r grwpiau lle mae 99 y cant o'r holl farwolaethau wedi digwydd hyd yma. Gwn fod llawer o alwadau wedi bod am flaenoriaethu'r brechlyn ar gyfer grwpiau galwedigaethol penodol yn y cam nesaf, yn enwedig yr heddlu ac athrawon, ond eraill hefyd, fel y mae'r Pwyllgor Deisebau wedi cydnabod. A deallaf y rhesymau pam y mae achos yn cael ei wneud dros frechu'r grwpiau hynny neu weithwyr allweddol eraill. Yn ddiweddar, dywedodd yr Athro Wei Shen Lim, cadeirydd y Cyd-bwyllgor ar Imiwneiddio a Brechu annibynnol ac arbenigol:

Mae brechiadau'n atal pobl rhag marw a'r strategaeth bresennol yw blaenoriaethu'r rhai sy'n fwy tebygol o gael canlyniadau difrifol a marw o COVID-19.

Dyna yw prif nod ein rhaglen frechu COVID o hyd. Mae'r Cyd-bwyllgor ar Imiwneiddio a Brechu—y JCVI—wedi adolygu'r dystiolaeth er mwyn deall y cysylltiad rhwng galwedigaeth a risg o ddod i gysylltiad â COVID-19 a niwed yn sgil hynny, a cheir ffactorau risg penodol ar gyfer mwy o risg o niwed difrifol, ac maent yn cynnwys oedran hŷn, gorgynrychiolaeth o rai cyflyrau iechyd isorweddol mewn rhai mathau o swyddi, amddifadedd economaidd-gymdeithasol, maint aelwydydd ac anallu i weithio gartref. Mae risg alwedigaethol sy'n gysylltiedig â chanlyniadau gwaeth gyda COVID-19 wedi effeithio'n bennaf, yn y dystiolaeth a ystyriodd JCVI, ar ddynion rhwng 40 a 49 oed, o blith yr holl bobl y tu allan i'r naw grŵp blaenoriaeth presennol. Mae'r dystiolaeth yn awgrymu bod cyfuniad o ffactorau, nid galwedigaeth yn unig, yn arwain at ganlyniadau gwaeth mewn rhai grwpiau. Dylem atgoffa ein hunain fod y canlyniadau gwaeth hynny'n cynnwys pobl yn marw; rydym wedi gweld lefelau marwolaeth sylweddol hyd yma.

Tynnodd cyngor y JCVI sylw hefyd at y ffaith y byddai darparu rhaglen sy'n targedu grwpiau galwedigaethol yn gymhleth. Mae'r GIG yn gwybod pa mor hen ydych chi, ond nid yw'n debygol o wybod pa swydd rydych chi'n ei gwneud gyda'r un lefel o gywirdeb. Mae'r JCVI wedi dod i'r casgliad nad oedd digon o dystiolaeth i gynghori pedair Llywodraeth y DU i flaenoriaethu rhai grwpiau galwedigaethol yng ngham nesaf y rhaglen frechu. Nodwyd mai model sy'n seiliedig ar oedran oedd y cyflymaf ar gyfer cyflwyno'r brechlyn a diogelu'r nifer fwyaf o bobl yn y cyfnod byrraf. A'n dealltwriaeth gyffredinol yw bod tua hanner y gweithwyr allweddol nad ydynt wedi cael eu brechu eto yn y grŵp oedran 40 i 49. Mae'n anodd anghytuno'n wrthrychol â rhaglen sydd wedi'i chynllunio i frechu'r nifer fwyaf o bobl yn y cyfnod byrraf er mwyn sicrhau bod y rhan fwyaf o bobl yn cael eu diogelu. A'r hyn na ddylem ei anghofio yw bod y JCVI, ar gyfer cam cyntaf y rhaglen, eto wedi cynghori y dylid blaenoriaethu yn seiliedig ar oedran a gwendid clinigol. Mabwysiadwyd y cyngor hwnnw gan bob un o bedair gwlad y DU—pedair Llywodraeth wahanol yn y DU, pedwar Gweinidog iechyd gwahanol, ag iddynt gefndir a theyrngarwch gwleidyddol gwahanol iawn, ond rydym i gyd wedi cytuno ar natur y cyngor a gawn a sut i ddarparu'r effaith fwyaf ar gadw ein poblogaethau'n ddiogel. Ac mae llwyddiant y rhaglen frechu yn anwadadwy ac yn amlwg yn nata Public Health Scotland a Public Health England a gyhoeddwyd yr wythnos diwethaf.

Nawr, rwy'n cydnabod rhai o'r pwyntiau sydd wedi'u gwneud mewn sylwadau. Nid oeddwn yn cytuno'n llwyr â'r modd y cyflwynodd Mr Isherwood ei fersiwn o'r hyn sydd wedi digwydd, oherwydd mewn gwirionedd, mae swyddogion yr heddlu wedi bod ar restrau diwedd dydd ar gyfer darparu brechlyn. Yn wir, rwyf wedi cael sgyrsiau gyda chomisiynwyr yr heddlu a throseddu mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru sydd wedi nodi bod gan Heddlu Gogledd Cymru niferoedd uwch o bobl wedi eu brechu yn y cyflenwad diwedd dydd hwnnw. Ac rydym wedi egluro'r sefyllfa i'w gwneud yn glir y gall cyflenwad diwedd dydd—i sicrhau nad yw'r brechlyn yn cael ei wastraffu, y gall heddlu a gweithwyr allweddol eraill wrth gwrs gael hwnnw. Nid wyf yn meddwl bod hwnnw'n fater dadleuol nawr. Ac mae—. Bydd Mr Isherwood, wrth gwrs, yn ffurfio'i farn ei hun, ond nid wyf yn credu bod y ffeithiau'n cefnogi ei fersiwn ef o bethau.

Hefyd, mae angen imi wneud y pwynt hwn yn gyffredinol. Nid mater o ofyn i bobl flaenoriaethu rhywfaint yw hyn, oherwydd os ydych yn blaenoriaethu unrhyw grŵp, rydych yn dadflaenoriaethu pobl eraill. Ac mae swyddog heddlu yn eu 20au mewn llai o berygl yn gyffredinol na heddwas yn eu 40au, yn union yr un fath ag athro yn eu 20au, o'u cymharu ag athro yn eu 40au, neu weithiwr swyddfa bost yn eu 20au neu yn eu 40au. Rydym yn ymdrin â'r dystiolaeth ar sut i ddiogelu pobl rhag niwed, a byddai angen tystiolaeth gref a diamheuol arnaf i wyro rhag cyngor y JCVI annibynnol ac arbenigol. Credaf fy mod yn gwneud yr hyn y dylai ac y byddai unrhyw Weinidog iechyd cyfrifol yn ei wneud i gadw eu gwlad yn ddiogel ynghanol pandemig sy'n dal i fod gyda ni: dilyn y dystiolaeth, y wyddoniaeth a'r cyngor iechyd cyhoeddus i achub cynifer o fywydau â phosibl. Dyna'n union y byddaf yn parhau i'w wneud, ac edrychaf ymlaen at wneud hynny gyda thîm rhagorol o bobl ledled y wlad i helpu i gadw Cymru'n ddiogel a chyflawni'r rhaglen frechu hon cyn gynted â phosibl. Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd.

16:45

Thank you. I have no Members who've indicated they wish to make an intervention, therefore I'll ask Janet Finch-Saunders to reply to the debate.

Diolch. Nid oes gennyf unrhyw Aelodau sydd wedi dweud eu bod yn dymuno gwneud ymyriad, felly gofynnaf i Janet Finch-Saunders ymateb i'r ddadl.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and thank you, Minister, and Members, for your comments here today. As has already been noted, the recent advice from the JCVI will have been disappointing to many people who have campaigned for prioritisation to be given to police officers, teachers, childcare staff and others, on behalf of the work they do. However, the commitment being shown in Wales and across the UK to deliver the vaccination programme at speed, and the progress being made to give people protection, will, I hope, also too act as a major comfort.

I want to close this debate by congratulating everyone involved in those programmes for the incredible efforts currently under way to vaccinate our population as swiftly as possible. Finally, may I also thank the petitioners for using our petitions process to highlight these important matters? Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd, a diolch, Weinidog, ac Aelodau, am eich sylwadau yma heddiw. Fel y nodwyd eisoes, bydd y cyngor diweddar gan y JCVI wedi bod yn siomedig i lawer o bobl sydd wedi ymgyrchu dros roi blaenoriaeth i swyddogion yr heddlu, athrawon, staff gofal plant ac eraill, oherwydd y gwaith a wnânt. Fodd bynnag, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd yr ymrwymiad sy'n cael ei ddangos yng Nghymru a ledled y DU i ddarparu'r rhaglen frechu'n gyflym, a'r cynnydd sy'n cael ei wneud i ddiogelu pobl, yn gysur mawr hefyd.

Rwyf am gloi'r ddadl hon drwy longyfarch pawb sy'n rhan o'r rhaglenni hynny am yr ymdrechion anhygoel sydd ar y gweill ar hyn o bryd i frechu ein poblogaeth cyn gynted ag sy'n bosibl. Yn olaf, hoffwn ddiolch hefyd i'r deisebwyr am ddefnyddio ein proses ddeisebau i dynnu sylw at y materion pwysig hyn? Diolch yn fawr.

16:50

Thank you. The proposal is to note the petitions. Does any Member object? I don't see any objections. Therefore, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36, the petitions have been noted.

Diolch. Y cynnig yw nodi'r deisebau. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nid wyf yn gweld unrhyw wrthwynebiadau. Felly, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36, nodwyd y deisebau.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

8. Dadl ar ddeisebau ynghylch datblygu Canolfan Ganser Felindre newydd: P-05-1001 'Cynnal ymchwiliad annibynnol i'r dewis o safle ar gyfer y Ganolfan Ganser Felindre newydd arfaethedig', P-05-1018 'Cefnogaeth ar gyfer y cynlluniau arfaethedig presennol i adeiladu Canolfan Ganser Felindre newydd yng Nghaerdydd mewn unrhyw ymchwiliad yn y dyfodol'
8. Debate on petitions concerning the development of a new Velindre Cancer Centre: P-05-1001 'Hold an independent inquiry into the choice of site for the proposed new Velindre Cancer Centre', P-05-1018 'Support for the current proposed plans to build a new Velindre Cancer Centre, Cardiff, in any future inquiry'

Item 8 on our agenda this afternoon is a debate on the petitions concerning the development of a new Velindre Cancer Centre, and I call on the Chair of the Petitions Committee to move the motion. Janet Finch-Saunders.

Eitem 8 ar ein hagenda y prynhawn yma yw dadl ar ddeisebau ynghylch datblygu Canolfan Ganser newydd Felindre, a galwaf ar Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Deisebau i wneud y cynnig. Janet Finch-Saunders.

Cynnig NDM7609 Janet Finch-Saunders

Cynnig bod y Senedd:

Yn nodi'r deisebau canlynol ynghylch datblygu Canolfan Ganser newydd Felindre:

a) Deiseb P-05-1001 'Cynnal ymchwiliad annibynnol i'r dewis o safle ar gyfer y Ganolfan Ganser Felindre newydd arfaethedig' a gasglodd 5,348 o lofnodion;

b) Deiseb P-05-1018 'Cefnogaeth ar gyfer y cynlluniau arfaethedig presennol i adeiladu Canolfan Ganser Felindre newydd yng Nghaerdydd mewn unrhyw ymchwiliad yn y dyfodol' a gasglodd 11,392 o lofnodion.

Motion NDM7609 Janet Finch-Saunders

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the following petitions concerning the development of a new Velindre Cancer Centre:

a) Petition P-05-1001 'Hold an independent inquiry into the choice of site for the proposed new Velindre Cancer Centre' which received 5,348 signatures;

b) Petition P-05-1018 'Support for the current proposed plans to build a new Velindre Cancer Centre, Cardiff, in any future inquiry' which received 11,392 signatures.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Thank you. Again, on behalf of the Petitions Committee, I’d like to thank the Business Committee for agreeing to schedule this debate. Like the one we've just held, this debate also concerns two petitions. These relate to the proposal for a new Velindre Cancer Centre in Cardiff. Velindre University NHS Trust is proposing to build a new centre on land to the north of its current site in Whitchurch, north Cardiff. This would replace its existing facilities, which have been operational for 60 years. The trust has stated that the current centre

'does not have the facilities or space to meet the needs of the increasing number of people diagnosed with cancer'.

Their intention for the new build is to provide modern facilities to treat more patients and help people to live longer with cancer. Subject to approval and funding, construction is due to begin in 2022 and the new centre to be operational from 2024. Now, the plans have met with both significant local opposition and support. Petitions have been received from both of those perspectives. So, I will now briefly outline the details of both.

The first petition was received from Amelia Thomas on behalf of Save the Northern Meadows Campaign. It collected 5,348 signatures and calls for an independent inquiry into the choice of site for the proposed new Velindre Cancer Centre. The group behind this petition have raised a number of concerns with the proposals. In opening this debate, I do not have the time to refer to all of them, however, they can be summarised in two main aspects, both of which relate to the proposed location of the centre.

The first aspect of concern to the petitioners is the loss of green space, known locally as the northern meadows. This is where Velindre NHS Trust propose to build the new cancer centre, close to their existing site. The land is owned by Cardiff and Vale NHS trust and outline planning permission has previously been granted for housing on the site by Cardiff council. The petitioners express concern over the loss of green space for ecological and environmental reasons, as well as in relation to the impacts on local residents. They have also raised concerns over flooding.

The second major concern relates to whether a stand-alone site is the right model for future cancer services. The petitioners, as well as some clinicians, have argued that the centre would be better co-located on an acute hospital site. They highlight the continued development of complex cancer treatments, which they state mean that co-location is a more suitable long-term model, with non-surgical treatments delivered in the same location as acute care and surgery. Ultimately, the petitioners have called for the proposal to be subject to independent clinical review before a decision is made by the Welsh Government as to whether to support the business case for the new centre.

I will now move to the second petition. This supports the proposals for the new centre and was submitted in response to the first petition. It calls on the Government to support the plans to build a new Velindre Cancer Centre, and was submitted by Natasha Hamilton-Ash with a total of 11,392 signatures. The petition highlights the advantages that a new hospital will bring to patients, stating that it is needed urgently to deliver the necessary improvements to services. They argue that it will be in a more easily accessible location for the vast majority of patients, as well as being able to deliver fit-for-purpose services to an increased number of patients in a modern facility. They have argued that the proposed location, in green space with improved access, will be a positive and will aid patient recovery, due to the natural setting and healing architecture.

Overall, the main view that has been strongly expressed by those supporting this petition is the need for a new centre at the earliest opportunity, pointing to the inadequate size and facilities of the existing site. The petitioners call for the Welsh Government to back the current plans and support Velindre NHS Trust to build the centre as quickly as possible.

Now, there is significantly more detail that sits behind both of these petitions, but the time available for us requires that I should now draw these opening remarks to a close. I am sure that other Members will have points they wish to make about both sides of this argument. I also hope that the Minister will be able to provide an update for us today on the current position in his response to the debate. The Petitions Committee is aware that there are constraints that prevent him from offering a wider view on the development, given the role that he does have in making final decisions on this proposal. Nevertheless, any further information or clarity on when and how those decisions will be taken would be very welcome to all involved, I am sure. Thank you. Diolch.

Diolch. Unwaith eto, ar ran y Pwyllgor Deisebau, hoffwn ddiolch i'r Pwyllgor Busnes am gytuno i drefnu'r ddadl hon. Fel yr un rydym newydd ei chynnal, mae'r ddadl hon hefyd yn seiliedig ar ddwy ddeiseb. Mae'r rhain yn ymwneud â'r cynnig ar gyfer Canolfan Ganser newydd Felindre yng Nghaerdydd. Mae Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Prifysgol Felindre yn cynnig adeiladu canolfan newydd ar dir i'r gogledd o'i safle presennol yn yr Eglwys Newydd, gogledd Caerdydd. Byddai'n cymryd lle ei gyfleusterau presennol, sydd wedi bod yn weithredol ers 60 mlynedd. Mae'r ymddiriedolaeth wedi datgan nad oes gan y ganolfan bresennol

gyfleusterau na lle i ddiwallu anghenion y nifer cynyddol o bobl sy'n cael diagnosis o ganser.

Eu bwriad ar gyfer yr adeilad newydd yw darparu cyfleusterau modern i drin mwy o gleifion a helpu pobl i fyw'n hwy gyda chanser. Yn amodol ar gymeradwyaeth a chyllid, disgwylir i'r gwaith adeiladu ddechrau yn 2022 a bydd y ganolfan newydd yn weithredol o 2024. Nawr, mae'r cynlluniau wedi wynebu gwrthwynebiad a chefnogaeth sylweddol yn lleol. Derbyniwyd deisebau'n mynegi'r ddau safbwynt. Felly, fe amlinellaf fanylion y ddwy yn fyr yn awr.

Cyflwynwyd y ddeiseb gyntaf gan Amelia Thomas ar ran Ymgyrch Achub y Dolydd Gogleddol. Casglodd 5,348 o lofnodion ac mae'n galw am ymchwiliad annibynnol i'r dewis o safle ar gyfer Canolfan Ganser newydd arfaethedig Felindre. Mae'r grŵp y tu ôl i'r ddeiseb hon wedi mynegi nifer o bryderon ynglŷn â'r cynigion. Wrth agor y ddadl hon, nid oes gennyf amser i gyfeirio at bob un ohonynt, ond gellir eu crynhoi'n ddwy brif elfen, ac mae'r ddwy ohonynt yn ymwneud â lleoliad arfaethedig y ganolfan.

Yr elfen gyntaf sy'n peri pryder i'r deisebwyr yw colli man gwyrdd a adwaenir yn lleol fel y dolydd gogleddol. Dyma lle mae Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Felindre yn cynnig adeiladu'r ganolfan ganser newydd, yn agos at eu safle presennol. Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Caerdydd a'r Fro sy'n berchen ar y tir ac mae cyngor Caerdydd wedi rhoi caniatâd cynllunio amlinellol o'r blaen ar gyfer tai ar y safle. Mae'r deisebwyr yn mynegi pryder ynglŷn â cholli mannau gwyrdd am resymau ecolegol ac amgylcheddol, yn ogystal ag mewn perthynas â'r effeithiau ar drigolion lleol. Maent hefyd wedi nodi pryderon ynglŷn â llifogydd.

Mae'r ail brif bryder yn ymwneud ag ai safle pwrpasol yw'r model cywir ar gyfer gwasanaethau canser yn y dyfodol. Mae'r deisebwyr, yn ogystal â rhai clinigwyr, wedi dadlau y byddai'r ganolfan yn well o'i chydleoli ar safle ysbyty acíwt. Maent yn tynnu sylw at ddatblygiad parhaus triniaethau canser cymhleth, y dywedant eu bod yn golygu bod cydleoli yn fodel hirdymor mwy addas, gyda thriniaethau anlawfeddygol yn cael eu darparu yn yr un lleoliad â gofal acíwt a llawdriniaethau. Yn y pen draw, mae'r deisebwyr wedi galw am i'r cynnig fod yn destun adolygiad clinigol annibynnol cyn i Lywodraeth Cymru wneud penderfyniad ynglŷn ag a ddylid cefnogi'r achos busnes dros y ganolfan newydd.

Rwy'n symud yn awr at yr ail ddeiseb. Mae hon yn cefnogi'r cynigion ar gyfer y ganolfan newydd ac fe'i cyflwynwyd mewn ymateb i'r ddeiseb gyntaf. Mae'n galw ar y Llywodraeth i gefnogi'r cynlluniau i adeiladu Canolfan Ganser newydd Felindre, ac fe'i cyflwynwyd gan Natasha Hamilton-Ash gyda chyfanswm o 11,392 o lofnodion. Mae'r ddeiseb yn tynnu sylw at y manteision y bydd ysbyty newydd yn eu cynnig i gleifion, gan ddweud bod ei angen ar frys i gyflawni'r gwelliannau angenrheidiol i wasanaethau. Maent yn dadlau y bydd mewn lleoliad haws ei gyrraedd ar gyfer y mwyafrif llethol o gleifion, yn ogystal â gallu darparu gwasanaethau addas i'r diben i nifer gynyddol o gleifion mewn cyfleuster modern. Maent wedi dadlau y bydd y lleoliad arfaethedig, mewn man gwyrdd gyda gwell mynediad, yn ffactor cadarnhaol ac y bydd yn helpu cleifion i wella, oherwydd y lleoliad naturiol a'r bensaernïaeth iachaol.

Yn gyffredinol, y brif farn a fynegwyd yn gryf gan y rhai sy'n cefnogi'r ddeiseb hon yw'r angen am ganolfan newydd cyn gynted â phosibl, gan dynnu sylw at gyfleusterau a maint annigonol y safle presennol. Mae'r deisebwyr yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gefnogi'r cynlluniau presennol a chefnogi Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Felindre i adeiladu'r ganolfan cyn gynted â phosibl.

Nawr, ceir llawer mwy o fanylion yn sail i'r ddwy ddeiseb, ond mae'r amser sydd ar gael inni yn mynnu y dylwn dynnu'r sylwadau agoriadol hyn i ben yn awr. Rwy'n siŵr y bydd gan Aelodau eraill bwyntiau y maent am eu gwneud am ddwy ochr y ddadl hon. Rwy'n gobeithio hefyd y bydd y Gweinidog yn gallu rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni heddiw am y sefyllfa bresennol yn ei ymateb i'r ddadl. Mae'r Pwyllgor Deisebau yn ymwybodol fod cyfyngiadau'n ei atal rhag cynnig barn ehangach ar y datblygiad, o ystyried ei rôl yn gwneud penderfyniadau terfynol ar y cynnig hwn. Serch hynny, rwy'n siŵr y byddai pawb sy'n gysylltiedig â hyn yn croesawu unrhyw wybodaeth neu eglurder pellach ynglŷn â pha bryd a sut y gwneir y penderfyniadau hynny. Diolch. 

16:55

I look at the Nuffield report that relates to these two conflicting petitions, and it makes it clear that we cannot go on delivering these services in a hospital building that is well past its sell-by date. If we want to improve cancer survival rates for the population of south-east Wales, we really do have to take things forward now, and we can't go on delaying decisions.

It has to be—. Redevelopment has to be a vehicle for reshaping services to better meet patients' needs, including being treated closer to home, but still getting that expertise concentrated at a Velindre centre. Velindre is a stand-alone trust for a reason. It is not part of a health board, because it has to have a culture that is quite distinct. The word 'cancer' alone causes terror in many people's minds, so one of the most important things that Velindre does is to reassure patients that, in most cases, cancer is not a death sentence. But the treatment of cancer is not a mechanical process, and a positive attitude and a focus on the quality of life is an essential part of the treatment and care process. And patients and their families need to be supported with the decision that is right for them in their particular circumstances.

So, this is not a Cardiff service; this is a service for the whole of south-east Wales. And whilst the majority of its services are either ambulatory chemotherapy, which can be delivered elsewhere and, as far as I understand, is, its radiotherapy services are, at the moment, concentrated at Velindre, because the cost of building these linear accelerators—LINACs, apparently, they're called—is a huge capital investment, very expensive and has to be built in a massive concrete bunker. So, up to now, all these LINACs have been at Velindre. But I note that the new Velindre plan includes one LINAC at Nevill Hall, and of course that is really important for patients, because it reduces the travel burden for patients and their carers, and, when you're unwell, that's really important. And it's also part of our attempt to tackle the inverse care law. 

Clearly, it's really important that this should not just be consumed by any general hospital, and, for me, the idea of building on the Heath site at the moment seems completely impossible. The Heath site is incredibly busy. Until recently, it was being used as a rat run for commuters, and the Nuffield report is quite clear that at the moment, this is just not an option. Maybe when we have a new University Hospital of Wales, then maybe you could see some sort of incorporation on the same site, but co-location cannot mean absorption. So, it seems to me that if Cardiff University want to build a new cancer research centre, I don't understand why they aren't thinking of co-locating it with Velindre, which is currently not possible on the Heath site. You can't deliver a new Velindre centre while you're also delivering patient care to sick people, so it seems to me that the closure of the Whitchurch hospital does provide a golden opportunity to build back better an environmentally sensitive centre of excellence in line with some of the points made—

Rwy'n edrych ar adroddiad Nuffield sy'n ymwneud â'r ddwy ddeiseb sy'n gwrthdaro, ac mae'n ei gwneud yn glir na allwn barhau i ddarparu'r gwasanaethau hyn mewn adeilad ysbyty sy'n llawer rhy hen i'r diben. Os ydym am wella cyfraddau goroesi canser ar gyfer poblogaeth de-ddwyrain Cymru, mae gwir raid inni symud pethau yn eu blaenau yn awr, ac ni allwn barhau i ohirio penderfyniadau.

Rhaid iddo fod—. Rhaid i ailddatblygu fod yn gyfrwng ar gyfer ail-lunio gwasanaethau er mwyn diwallu anghenion cleifion yn well, gan gynnwys cael eu trin yn nes at adref, ond gan barhau i ganolbwyntio'r arbenigedd hwnnw mewn canolfan Felindre. Mae rheswm pam y mae Felindre'n ymddiriedolaeth annibynnol. Nid yw'n rhan o fwrdd iechyd, oherwydd rhaid iddi gael diwylliant sy'n hollol wahanol. Mae'r gair 'canser' yn unig yn achosi arswyd ym meddyliau llawer o bobl, felly un o'r pethau pwysicaf y mae Felindre yn ei wneud yw rhoi tawelwch meddwl i gleifion nad dedfryd marwolaeth yw canser yn y rhan fwyaf o achosion. Ond nid proses fecanyddol yw trin canser, ac mae agwedd gadarnhaol a ffocws ar ansawdd bywyd yn rhan hanfodol o'r driniaeth a'r broses ofal. Ac mae angen cefnogi cleifion a'u teuluoedd gyda'r penderfyniad sy'n iawn iddynt hwy yn eu hamgylchiadau hwy.

Felly, nid gwasanaeth i Gaerdydd yn unig yw hwn ond gwasanaeth i dde-ddwyrain Cymru yn gyfan. Ac er bod y rhan fwyaf o'i wasanaethau naill ai'n gemotherapi symudol, y gellir, ac a gaiff yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, ei ddarparu mewn mannau eraill, mae ei wasanaethau radiotherapi, ar hyn o bryd, yn cael eu darparu yn Felindre, oherwydd bod y gost o adeiladu'r cyflymyddion llinellol hyn—fe'u gelwir yn LINACs, mae'n debyg—yn fuddsoddiad cyfalaf enfawr, yn ddrud iawn ac mae'n rhaid ei adeiladu mewn byncer concrid enfawr. Felly, hyd yn hyn, mae'r holl LINACs hyn wedi bod yn Felindre. Ond nodaf fod cynllun newydd Felindre'n cynnwys un LINAC yn Nevill Hall, ac wrth gwrs mae hynny'n bwysig iawn i gleifion, oherwydd mae'n lleihau'r baich teithio i gleifion a'u gofalwyr, a phan fyddwch yn sâl, mae hynny'n bwysig iawn. Ac mae hefyd yn rhan o'n hymdrech i fynd i'r afael â'r ddeddf gofal gwrthgyfartal. 

Yn amlwg, mae'n bwysig iawn na ddylai hyn gael ei lyncu gan unrhyw ysbyty cyffredinol, ac i mi, mae'r syniad o adeiladu ar safle'r Mynydd Bychan ar hyn o bryd yn ymddangos yn gwbl amhosibl. Mae safle'r Mynydd Bychan yn anhygoel o brysur. Tan yn ddiweddar, câi ei ddefnyddio fel llwybr osgoi traffig i gymudwyr, ac mae adroddiad Nuffield yn gwbl glir nad yw hwn yn opsiwn ar hyn o bryd. Pan fydd gennym Ysbyty Athrofaol newydd yng Nghymru, efallai y gallech weld rhyw fath o ymgorfforiad ar yr un safle, ond ni all cydleoli olygu amsugno. Felly, mae'n ymddangos i mi, os yw Prifysgol Caerdydd am adeiladu canolfan ymchwil canser newydd, nid wyf yn deall pam nad ydynt yn ystyried ei chydleoli gyda Felindre, rhywbeth nad yw'n bosibl ei wneud ar safle'r Mynydd Bychan ar hyn o bryd. Ni allwch ddarparu canolfan newydd Felindre tra byddwch hefyd yn darparu gofal cleifion i bobl sâl, felly mae'n ymddangos i mi fod cau ysbyty'r Eglwys Newydd yn gyfle euraid i adeiladu nôl yn well ar ffurf canolfan ragoriaeth sy'n sensitif i'r amgylchedd yn unol â rhai o'r pwyntiau a wnaed—

17:00

The Member does need to wind up, please.

Mae angen i'r Aelod ddirwyn i ben, os gwelwch yn dda.

—by the petitioners. So, I don't think this discussion is going to be resolved today, but it does need to be resolved fairly soon, but there's a lot of money involved and it's really important we get this right. 

—gan y deisebwyr. Felly, nid wyf yn credu y bydd y drafodaeth hon yn cael ei datrys heddiw, ond mae angen ei datrys yn weddol fuan, mae llawer o arian ynghlwm wrth hyn ac mae'n bwysig iawn ein bod yn ei gael yn iawn.

Thanks for the opportunity to speak in this debate. It's an unusual one in that it brings together two conflicting petitions, two contrasting opinions about the same issue. And it's a really important issue, the future of cancer services in the south-east of Wales, and whatever the particular issues at play here, however strong the opinions are about a number of different aspects of this, it's the quality of those cancer services that is of utmost importance.

I did serve on the Petitions Committee for a while, but that's some time ago, so I've had no dealings directly with these petitions as such, but over recent months, I have in my role as Plaid Cymru shadow health and care Minister been lobbied by both sides of the debate, spoken to people, listened to arguments by both supporters and opponents of the proposal currently on the table, and I've met clinical leaders and senior management at Velindre. I'd say I've tried to learn as much as I can about the issues at stake here.

So what have I concluded? I've already set out my views, actually, in correspondence with a number of people who've contacted me in the run-up to this debate, but firstly, I'll say what I'm not commenting on: I note the campaign locally on the proposal to develop on that piece of land called the northern meadows, but I think in my health and care role, I don't believe it's for me to comment on the planning issue, if you like, and the impact on local amenity and that kind of thing; those are issues for the local population. I've also taken note of various associated environmental arguments that have been put forward. Again, I understand that those are very important to many people, but not ones for me to comment upon really.

So, my interest here is in the future of cancer services and in making sure that the best possible services are developed, the best possible outcomes are sought, and balanced with the speed at which improvements can be delivered, and I certainly hope that everyone can agree that that is the most important issue here.

Services provided at Velindre and the work of the staff, their dedication and their skills, they're hugely valued, and I certainly don't doubt at all the belief of clinical leaders at Velindre that the plan that they do have on the table is robust, that it forms part of what could transform cancer services in the region. I've spoken with them about the plans; they wouldn't back plans that they didn't think would work, and they're people who've dedicated their professional lives to fighting cancer, and they're people I respect hugely.

At the same time, I've also heard and read enough concerns and received enough correspondence from people—including clinicians and health workers, past and present—to understand that there are real worries about the choice of clinical model, that passionate cases are being made in relation to that debate that we've heard outlined about stand-alone provision versus co-location with acute services. Doubts have been raised about various parts of the process that's been followed, about transparency at a number of junctures in the process, about elements of how the proposal has been financed, and taken together, I think these fundamental disagreements on strategy on one level and mistrust on another are damaging to the overall aspiration that, as I say, I want everybody to get behind, if at all possible. It's in that context that I really think that Government should step in to ensure that these issues are really quickly, rapidly investigated, in a way that is truly seen as independent, and that crucially, as I say, should be done without delay.

We're all touched by cancer at some point in our lives. It's in everybody's interests, wherever we are in Wales, to seek to make sure that our cancer services are the best that they can be. What I want to see here is for a project to put Velindre services on a firmer footing for the future to be accelerated, and certainly not slowed down.

Diolch am y cyfle i siarad yn y ddadl hon. Mae'n un anarferol gan ei bod yn dwyn ynghyd dwy ddeiseb sy'n gwrth-ddweud ei gilydd, dwy farn wrthgyferbyniol ar yr un mater. Ac mae'n fater pwysig iawn, dyfodol gwasanaethau canser yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru, a beth bynnag fo'r materion penodol sydd ar waith yma, waeth pa mor gryf yw'r farn am nifer o wahanol agweddau ar hyn, mae ansawdd y gwasanaethau canser hynny o'r pwys mwyaf.

Gwasanaethais ar y Pwyllgor Deisebau am gyfnod, ond mae hynny beth amser yn ôl, felly nid wyf wedi cael unrhyw ymwneud uniongyrchol â'r deisebau hyn fel y cyfryw, ond dros y misoedd diwethaf, yn fy rôl fel Gweinidog iechyd a gofal yr wrthblaid ar ran Plaid Cymru, rwyf wedi cael fy lobïo gan ddwy ochr y ddadl, rwyf wedi siarad â phobl, wedi gwrando ar ddadleuon gan gefnogwyr a gwrthwynebwyr y cynnig sydd ar y bwrdd ar hyn o bryd, ac rwyf wedi cyfarfod ag arweinwyr clinigol ac uwch reolwyr yn Felindre. Byddwn i'n dweud fy mod wedi ceisio dysgu cymaint ag y gallaf am y materion sydd yn y fantol yma.

Felly i ba gasgliad y deuthum iddo? Rwyf eisoes wedi nodi fy marn, mewn gwirionedd, mewn gohebiaeth â nifer o bobl sydd wedi cysylltu â mi yn y cyfnod cyn y ddadl hon, ond yn gyntaf, rwyf am nodi beth nad wyf am wneud sylwadau yn ei gylch: nodaf yr ymgyrch yn lleol ar y cynnig i ddatblygu ar y darn hwnnw o dir a elwir yn ddolydd gogleddol, ond yn fy rôl iechyd a gofal, nid wyf yn credu mai fy lle i yw gwneud sylwadau ar y mater cynllunio, os mynnwch, a'r effaith ar amwynder lleol a'r math hwnnw o beth; materion i'r boblogaeth leol yw'r rheini. Rwyf hefyd wedi nodi gwahanol ddadleuon amgylcheddol cysylltiedig a gyflwynwyd. Unwaith eto, deallaf fod y rheini'n bwysig iawn i lawer o bobl, ond nid ydynt yn rhai y dylwn i wneud sylwadau arnynt mewn gwirionedd.

Felly, mae fy niddordeb yma yn nyfodol gwasanaethau canser a sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau gorau posibl yn cael eu datblygu, y canlyniadau gorau posibl yn cael eu ceisio, a'u cydbwyso â pha mor gyflym y gellir cyflawni gwelliannau, ac rwy'n sicr yn gobeithio y gall pawb gytuno mai dyna sydd bwysicaf yma.

Mae'r gwasanaethau a ddarperir yn Felindre a gwaith y staff, eu hymroddiad a'u sgiliau, yn cael eu gwerthfawrogi'n fawr, ac yn sicr nid wyf am eiliad yn amau cred arweinwyr clinigol yn Felindre fod y cynllun sydd ganddynt ar y bwrdd yn un cadarn, ei fod yn rhan o'r hyn a allai drawsnewid gwasanaethau canser yn y rhanbarth. Rwyf wedi siarad â hwy am y cynlluniau; ni fyddent yn cefnogi cynlluniau nad oeddent yn credu y byddent yn gweithio, ac maent yn bobl sydd wedi rhoi eu bywydau proffesiynol i ymladd canser, ac yn bobl rwy'n eu parchu'n fawr.

Ar yr un pryd, rwyf hefyd wedi clywed a darllen digon o bryderon ac wedi cael digon o ohebiaeth gan bobl—gan gynnwys clinigwyr a gweithwyr iechyd, yn y gorffennol a'r presennol—i ddeall bod pryderon gwirioneddol ynglŷn â'r dewis o fodel clinigol, fod achosion angerddol yn cael eu gwneud mewn perthynas â'r ddadl honno rydym wedi'i chlywed yn cael ei hamlinellu am ddarpariaeth bwrpasol yn erbyn cydleoli gyda gwasanaethau acíwt. Codwyd amheuon ynghylch gwahanol rannau o'r broses a ddilynwyd, ynglŷn â thryloywder ar nifer o adegau yn y broses, ynghylch elfennau o'r ffordd y mae'r cynnig wedi'i ariannu, ac o'u cymryd gyda'i gilydd, credaf fod yr anghydweld sylfaenol ar strategaeth ar un lefel a drwgdybiaeth ar lefel arall yn niweidiol i'r uchelgais cyffredinol rwyf am i bawb ei gefnogi, fel y dywedais, os yw hynny'n bosibl. Yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, credaf o ddifrif y dylai'r Llywodraeth gamu i mewn i sicrhau bod y materion hyn yn cael eu hymchwilio'n gyflym iawn, mewn ffordd y gwelir ei bod yn wirioneddol annibynnol, a dylid gwneud hynny'n ddi-oed, fel y dywedais.

Mae canser yn cyffwrdd â phawb ohonom ar ryw adeg yn ein bywydau. Mae ceisio sicrhau bod ein gwasanaethau canser y gorau y gallant fod o fudd i bawb ble bynnag yr ydym yng Nghymru. Yr hyn rwyf am ei weld yma yw prosiect sy'n rhoi gwasanaethau Felindre ar sylfaen gadarnach ar gyfer y dyfodol yn cael ei gyflymu, ac yn bendant nid ei arafu.

Daeth y Llywydd i’r Gadair.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

17:05

I can't possibly do justice in this debate to the many heartfelt messages in support of the Velindre proposals from all over my constituency, but I think one letter from Richard Case in Llanharan might help. Richard writes,

'As with the majority of people in south-east Wales, the Velindre Cancer Centre holds a very special place in my heart. I spent far too long in their buildings while supporting my wife undergoing a year of treatment for breast cancer',

and also for the radiotherapy that Cian, his much-loved son, underwent.

'However, the amazing staff, together with the state-of-the-art technology, cured my wife and enabled Cian to have two more years with us. It doesn't sound like much, but it extended his life expectation by a third and ensured that we could enjoy the amazing memories that he left behind during that time—memories that will always be treasured by those of us he left behind.

'The current Velindre site has outgrown its current premises. It desperately requires more space and further modernisation. Whilst it is a fully functional centre with excellent results, it is not the most welcoming of sights in relation to its environment, and the access to the site in terms of transport links and the high velocity of traffic that goes through the village of Whitchurch makes the journey regularly inconvenient and stressful for the people from Ogmore who require treatment.

'Therefore, building a new centre on current land or on a brownfield location such as Whitchurch Hospital is just not practical. It would require compromising plans to try to install services onto a site that is already not fit for purpose. The site that is owned by Velindre and has been proposed for the development is ideal for the needs of the critical services it will house. I don't particularly want to see further green space developed upon where it is not necessary, but looking at the plans, it appears that every ecological consideration has been addressed, and it will actually make the remaining green space more practical and functional to the community.

'The other option mooted would be to include Velindre as part of an acute NHS site that could offer additional health services, and access to emergency services and provisions. Personally, I don't believe that this is a sensible option as a large proportion of people undergoing oncology are immunosuppressed or compromised. Having these patients potentially mixing with other patients with communicable diseases could be extremely problematic.

'We had similar issues and considerations with Cian, and in addition to the health considerations, the UHW site is also in desperate need of modernisation, has awful transport links and is lacking space. Therefore, it cannot accommodate any further services, and if it was decided to create a new acute site, that would take a significant amount of time to deliver and would no doubt raise the same if not more concerns, similar to those that are protesting the Velindre site. There is no more time. The procrastination must stop, and services be delivered.'

Presiding Officer, I could have used the words of Lindsey of Maesteg or Heather of Gilfach Goch or Jean of Sarn or those of so many others from Pencoed and Cefn Cribwr and Blaengarw and right across Ogmore who've written to me with their personal stories expressing their strong support for the Velindre proposal. But I think Richard has spoken well for all those who wrote to me, and I ask that those views be respected by all those taking part in the debate today and all who must ultimately take a decision on this project going forward. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Ni allaf wneud cyfiawnder yn y ddadl hon â'r nifer fawr o negeseuon twymgalon i gefnogi cynigion Felindre o bob rhan o fy etholaeth, ond credaf y gallai un llythyr gan Richard Case yn Llanharan helpu. Mae Richard yn ysgrifennu fel hyn:

Fel gyda'r mwyafrif o bobl yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru, mae gan Ganolfan Ganser Felindre le arbennig iawn yn fy nghalon. Treuliais lawer gormod o amser yn eu hadeiladau tra'n cefnogi fy ngwraig a dreuliodd flwyddyn yn cael triniaeth ar gyfer canser y fron,

a hefyd am y radiotherapi a gafodd Cian, ei fab annwyl iawn.

Fodd bynnag, fe wnaeth y staff anhygoel, yn ogystal â'r dechnoleg ddiweddaraf, wella fy ngwraig a galluogi Cian i gael dwy flynedd arall gyda ni. Nid yw'n swnio'n llawer, ond estynnodd ei ddisgwyliad oes o draean a sicrhau y gallem fwynhau'r atgofion anhygoel a adawodd ar ei ôl yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw—atgofion a fydd bob amser yn cael eu trysori gan y rhai ohonom a adawodd ar ôl.

Mae safle presennol Felindre wedi tyfu'n fwy na gallu ei leoliad presennol i'w gynnal. Mae taer angen mwy o le a moderneiddio pellach. Er ei bod yn ganolfan gwbl weithredol gyda chanlyniadau rhagorol, nid dyma'r olygfa fwyaf croesawgar o ran ei hamgylchedd, ac mae mynediad i'r safle o ran cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth a chyflymder y traffig sy'n mynd drwy bentref yr Eglwys Newydd yn aml yn gwneud y daith yn anghyfleus ac yn straen i bobl Ogwr sydd angen triniaeth.

Felly, nid yw adeiladu canolfan newydd ar dir presennol neu ar leoliad tir llwyd fel Ysbyty'r Eglwys Newydd yn ymarferol. Byddai angen cynlluniau cyfaddawdol i geisio gosod gwasanaethau ar safle sydd eisoes yn anaddas i'r diben. Mae'r safle sy'n eiddo i Felindre ac sydd wedi'i argymell ar gyfer y datblygiad yn ddelfrydol ar gyfer anghenion y gwasanaethau hanfodol y bydd yn eu cartrefu. Nid wyf am weld rhagor o fannau gwyrdd yn cael eu datblygu lle nad oes angen, ond o edrych ar y cynlluniau, mae'n ymddangos bod pob ystyriaeth ecolegol wedi cael sylw, a bydd yn gwneud y mannau gwyrdd sy'n weddill yn fwy ymarferol a gweithredol ar gyfer y gymuned.

Yr opsiwn arall a grybwyllwyd fyddai cynnwys Felindre fel rhan o safle GIG acíwt a allai gynnig gwasanaethau iechyd ychwanegol, a mynediad at wasanaethau a darpariaethau brys. Yn bersonol, nid wyf yn credu bod hwn yn opsiwn synhwyrol gan fod cyfran fawr o bobl sy'n cael gofal oncoleg yn derbyn triniaeth imiwnoataliol neu ag imiwnedd gwan. Mae'n bosibl y gallai cael y cleifion hyn yn cymysgu â chleifion eraill sydd â chlefydau trosglwyddadwy fod yn broblem fawr.

Cawsom broblemau ac ystyriaethau tebyg gyda Cian, ac yn ogystal ag ystyriaethau iechyd, mae gwir angen moderneiddio safle Ysbyty Athrofaol Cymru hefyd, mae'r cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth yn ofnadwy ac nid oes lle yno. Felly, ni all ddarparu ar gyfer unrhyw wasanaethau pellach, a phe penderfynid creu safle acíwt newydd, byddai hynny'n cymryd cryn dipyn o amser i'w gyflawni ac mae'n siŵr y byddai'n creu pryderon tebyg os nad rhai mwy, yn debyg i'r rhai sydd gan y bobl sy'n protestio yn erbyn safle Felindre. Nid oes rhagor o amser i'w gael. Rhaid rhoi diwedd ar ohirio, a darparu gwasanaethau.

Lywydd, gallwn fod wedi defnyddio geiriau Lindsey o Faesteg neu Heather o Gilfach Goch neu Jean o Sarn neu rai cynifer o bobl eraill o Bencoed a Chefn Cribwr a Blaengarw ac ar draws Ogwr sydd wedi ysgrifennu ataf gyda'u straeon personol yn mynegi eu cefnogaeth gref i gynnig Felindre. Ond rwy'n credu bod Richard wedi siarad yn dda dros bawb a ysgrifennodd ataf, a gofynnaf i bawb sy'n cymryd rhan yn y ddadl heddiw barchu'r safbwyntiau hynny a phawb fydd yn gorfod gwneud penderfyniad yn y pen draw ar y prosiect hwn wrth symud ymlaen. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I speak today in a debate that has generated much interest and much passion on both sides. This is evidenced by the petitions before us, which together just over 17,000 people have signed, and a large number of individuals and groups have contacted Members to make their case. However, looking at people from my constituency, the trend is very much in support of petition P-05-1018, supporting the current plans. Far more of my constituents signed this petition, rather than the alternative. In fact, nearly 12 times as many supported the current plans.

In addition, my postbag on this issue from constituents has been overwhelmingly one-sided. It doesn't surprise me, as Velindre occupies an important place in the lives and memories of far too many of my constituents. It's a place where lives are saved, where our hard-working NHS staff give their all to provide treatment and support to people battling cancer, where hope is offered. One constituent wrote about the hospital of hope and hard truths may be faced. And as we're talking about a debate that has come forward through the auspices of the Petitions Committee, it makes sense to explore their views.

Constituents who have contacted me are clear in their support for the project in its potential to improve diagnosis, treatment and outcomes, to provide a new building that is fit for purpose, and to do so within an acceptable timescale, for a specialist facility that provides cancer support for the one in two of us that will develop cancer at some point in our lives. And it does so in a convenient location that reduces pressure on people having to travel from the Valleys, such as my constituents.

I was fortunate to visit the current facility a few years ago with the MS for Islwyn and while acknowledging the hospital's excellent reputation, the need for a new facility that can meet the needs of today's patients is clear. I do have sympathy for the concerns of those who oppose the plans. Points were made that we must consider sympathetically about access, provision and the importance of the northern meadows, but I think they are more than answered by how the environment is such an important part of the future plans.

This is a point persuasively made by the authors of P-05-1018, with a desire for healing architecture that blends medical care with nature. Indeed, I am told that 60 per cent of the green space will be retained for use by both cancer patients and local residents. We need to improve outcomes for people whose lives are marked by cancer. For people in my constituency, the current plans are one such vitally needed intervention, and I am happy to support them today. Thank you.

Rwy'n siarad heddiw mewn dadl sydd wedi ennyn llawer o ddiddordeb a llawer o angerdd ar y ddwy ochr. Mae'r deisebau ger ein bron yn dystiolaeth o hyn, ac mae ychydig dros 17,000 o bobl i gyd wedi'u llofnodi, ac mae nifer fawr o unigolion a grwpiau wedi cysylltu ag Aelodau i gyflwyno eu hachos. Fodd bynnag, o edrych ar bobl yn fy etholaeth i, mae'r duedd yn fawr iawn tuag at gefnogi deiseb P-05-1018, sy'n cefnogi'r cynlluniau presennol. Llofnododd llawer mwy o fy etholwyr y ddeiseb hon, yn hytrach na'r llall. Yn wir, roedd bron i 12 gwaith cymaint yn cefnogi'r cynlluniau presennol.

Yn ogystal, mae fy mag post ar y mater hwn gan etholwyr wedi bod yn unochrog dros ben. Nid yw'n fy synnu, gan fod Felindre yn rhan bwysig o fywydau ac atgofion llawer gormod o fy etholwyr. Mae'n fan lle mae bywydau'n cael eu hachub, lle mae ein staff GIG gweithgar yn ymroi i ddarparu triniaeth a chymorth i bobl sy'n brwydro yn erbyn canser, man sy'n cynnig gobaith. Ysgrifennodd un etholwr am yr ysbyty llawn gobaith a gwirioneddau caled. A gan ein bod yn sôn am ddadl a gyflwynwyd drwy gyfrwng y Pwyllgor Deisebau, mae'n gwneud synnwyr i archwilio eu barn.

Mae etholwyr sydd wedi cysylltu â mi yn glir eu cefnogaeth i'r prosiect o ran ei botensial i wella diagnosis, triniaeth a chanlyniadau, i ddarparu adeilad newydd sy'n addas at y diben, ac i wneud hynny o fewn amserlen dderbyniol, ar gyfer cyfleuster arbenigol sy'n darparu cymorth canser i'r un o bob dau ohonom a fydd yn datblygu canser ar ryw adeg yn ein bywydau. Ac mae'n gwneud hynny mewn lleoliad cyfleus sy'n lleihau'r pwysau ar bobl sy'n gorfod teithio o'r Cymoedd, fel fy etholwyr i.

Roeddwn yn ffodus i ymweld â'r cyfleuster presennol ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl gyda'r AS dros Islwyn ac er fy mod yn cydnabod yr enw rhagorol sydd gan yr ysbyty, mae'r angen am gyfleuster newydd a all ddiwallu anghenion cleifion heddiw yn glir. Mae gennyf gydymdeimlad â phryderon y rhai sy'n gwrthwynebu'r cynlluniau. Gwnaed pwyntiau sy'n rhaid inni eu hystyried yn gydymdeimladol am fynediad, darpariaeth a phwysigrwydd y dolydd gogleddol, ond credaf eu bod yn cael eu hateb yn llawn gan y ffordd y mae'r amgylchedd yn rhan mor bwysig o'r cynlluniau ar gyfer y dyfodol.

Mae hwn yn bwynt a wnaed yn argyhoeddiadol gan awduron P-05-1018, gydag awydd am bensaernïaeth iachaol sy'n cyfuno gofal meddygol â natur. Yn wir, dywedir wrthyf y bydd 60 y cant o'r mannau gwyrdd yn cael eu cadw i'w defnyddio gan gleifion canser a thrigolion lleol. Mae angen inni wella canlyniadau i bobl y mae canser yn cyffwrdd â'u bywydau. I bobl yn fy etholaeth i, mae'r cynlluniau presennol yn ymyrraeth o'r fath sydd ei hangen yn daer, ac rwy'n hapus i'w cefnogi heddiw. Diolch.

17:10

Llywydd, last time I was speaking on a matter such as this, it was to keep the accident and emergency department open at the Royal Glamorgan Hospital. That campaign was successful. Today, I am actually speaking in support of the opening of a vitally required hospital. But can I start by expressing my support for the wonderful work that Velindre has carried out, looking after so many of my constituents over the years, and for the kindness and professionalism of the staff? And I understand there can be strong feelings on issues around location and model, but I'm speaking today solely to speak up on behalf of my constituents in the Pontypridd and Taff Ely area, but I do know these are reflected heavily across Rhondda Cynon Taf. 

I've had many representations from constituents who are patients, family members, staff and clinicians at Velindre. Every one of them has called upon me to urge support—and some of it quite emotional, as we've heard from Huw Irranca—for the new Velindre hospital and for it to go ahead as soon as possible, for an end to the interminable delay. This isn't just a project for Cardiff, but for the whole of south Wales, and it is vitally important to the well-being of my constituents. Their message to me is clear, so I put it to this Parliament on their behalf.

They tell me that delays have gone on long enough. They tell me they cannot wait for the new facility to go ahead. Llywydd, they tell me that the time for delay is over. My constituents want us to go ahead with this new hospital, for us to have the twenty-first century cancer facilities that we need and deserve, and for many of them, it is a matter of life and death. And we should seize the opportunity to go ahead now. I believe that I speak out for the overwhelming majority of my constituents. Diolch, Llywydd.

Lywydd, y tro diwethaf imi siarad ar fater fel hwn oedd i gadw'r adran damweiniau ac achosion brys ar agor yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Morgannwg. Roedd yr ymgyrch honno'n llwyddiannus. Heddiw, rwy'n siarad o blaid cefnogi agor ysbyty sydd ei angen yn ddybryd. Ond a gaf fi ddechrau drwy fynegi fy nghefnogaeth i'r gwaith gwych y mae Felindre wedi'i wneud yn gofalu am gynifer o fy etholwyr dros y blynyddoedd, ac am garedigrwydd a phroffesiynoldeb y staff? Ac rwy'n deall y gall fod teimladau cryf ar faterion yn ymwneud â lleoliad a model, ond rwy'n siarad heddiw'n unswydd ar ran fy etholwyr yn ardal Pontypridd a Thaf Elái, ac rwy'n gwybod bod y teimladau hyn yn cael eu hadlewyrchu'n helaeth ar draws Rhondda Cynon Taf. 

Rwyf wedi cael llawer o sylwadau gan etholwyr sy'n gleifion, yn aelodau teuluol, yn staff a chlinigwyr yn Felindre. Mae pob un ohonynt wedi galw arnaf i annog cefnogaeth—a rhywfaint ohono'n eithaf emosiynol, fel y clywsom gan Huw Irranca—i ysbyty newydd Felindre ac iddo fynd yn ei flaen cyn gynted â phosibl, a rhoi diwedd ar yr oedi diddiwedd. Nid prosiect i Gaerdydd yn unig yw hwn, ond i dde Cymru gyfan, ac mae'n hanfodol bwysig i les fy etholwyr. Mae eu neges i mi'n glir, felly fe'i rhoddaf i'r Senedd hon ar eu rhan.

Maent yn dweud wrthyf fod yr oedi wedi mynd rhagddo'n ddigon hir. Maent yn dweud wrthyf na allant aros i'r cyfleuster newydd fynd yn ei flaen. Lywydd, maent yn dweud wrthyf fod yr amser ar gyfer oedi ar ben. Mae fy etholwyr am inni fwrw ymlaen â'r ysbyty newydd hwn, inni gael y cyfleusterau canser ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar hugain rydym eu hangen ac yn eu haeddu, ac i lawer ohonynt, mae'n fater o fywyd a marwolaeth. A dylem fanteisio ar y cyfle i fwrw ymlaen yn awr. Credaf fy mod yn siarad am fwyafrif llethol fy etholwyr. Diolch, Lywydd.

Dwi'n galw nawr ar y Gweinidog i gyfrannu i'r ddadl, Vaughan Gething. 

I call on the Minister to contribute to the debate, Vaughan Gething. 

Thank you, Llywydd. I'd like to thank the Petitions Committee for its work in considering these petitions and bringing them forward for debate today. Although the petitions are clearly at odds with another, I know that all of us will recognise the genuine nature of the concerns being raised, and the understandable passion that underpins them. We all want to see people affected by cancer having the best possible care and the best possible outcomes. The need for a new cancer hospital in south-east Wales to serve a broader community is widely recognised and the Government has a manifesto commitment to help deliver one. The importance of improving cancer outcomes and the need for this to include a new cancer centre are therefore not in question. What is in question is what part a new cancer hospital plays in delivering those better outcomes and where it is best located to deliver that contribution.

Velindre University NHS Trust is the statutory body responsible for the delivery of non-surgical oncology services in south-east Wales. It has led the development of proposals for a new Velindre cancer centre with its commissioning health boards. It has been a long and complex process involving an incredible amount of work from all concerned. That is now coming to final decision. The Welsh Government's role in this is to assess, through our formal scrutiny process, the strength of the case being made and to make a determination with regard to approval and funding. Ultimately, Welsh Ministers will make that decision based on the analysis and recommendations carried out by our officials and their advisers, who will have scrutinised very closely the work done by Velindre and the advice provided by Nuffield and others. That scrutiny process has now completed, and I expect to consider the advice later this week. Therefore, I cannot comment specifically on the issues raised in the petitions, as this could clearly prejudice any decisions to be made in the coming days on the business cases that are before Welsh Ministers.

What I can say is that I understand the interest in the plans and the concerns that are being raised by both petitions. I will give them due consideration when it comes to making a decision, and of course, once that decision is made, it will become public. Thank you, Llywydd.

Diolch, Lywydd. Hoffwn ddiolch i'r Pwyllgor Deisebau am ei waith yn ystyried y deisebau hyn ac am eu cyflwyno i'w trafod heddiw. Er bod y deisebau'n amlwg yn gwrthdaro, gwn y bydd pob un ohonom yn cydnabod natur ddilys y pryderon sy'n cael eu codi, a'r angerdd dealladwy sy'n sail iddynt. Rydym i gyd am weld pobl y mae canser yn effeithio arnynt yn cael y gofal a'r canlyniadau gorau posibl. Mae'r angen am ysbyty canser newydd yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru i wasanaethu cymuned ehangach wedi ei gydnabod yn eang ac mae gan y Llywodraeth ymrwymiad maniffesto i helpu i ddarparu un. Felly, nid oes amheuaeth ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd gwella canlyniadau canser a'r angen i hyn gynnwys canolfan ganser newydd. Yr hyn sydd dan sylw yw pa ran y mae ysbyty canser newydd yn ei chwarae yn cyflawni'r canlyniadau gwell hynny a lle sydd orau i'w leoli er mwyn cyflawni'r cyfraniad hwnnw.

Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Prifysgol Felindre yw'r corff statudol sy'n gyfrifol am ddarparu gwasanaethau oncoleg anlawfeddygol yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru. Mae wedi arwain y gwaith o ddatblygu cynigion ar gyfer canolfan ganser newydd Felindre gyda'i byrddau iechyd comisiynu. Bu'n broses hir a chymhleth a alwai am lawer iawn o waith gan bawb a oedd yn gysylltiedig â hi. Mae hynny'n dod at benderfyniad terfynol yn awr. Rôl Llywodraeth Cymru yn hyn o beth yw asesu cryfder yr achos a wneir drwy ein proses graffu ffurfiol, a gwneud penderfyniad ynglŷn â chymeradwyo ac ariannu. Yn y pen draw, bydd Gweinidogion Cymru yn gwneud y penderfyniad hwnnw ar sail y dadansoddiad a'r argymhellion a wnaed gan ein swyddogion a'u cynghorwyr, a fydd wedi craffu'n fanwl iawn ar y gwaith a wnaed gan Felindre a'r cyngor a ddarperir gan Nuffield ac eraill. Mae'r broses graffu honno bellach wedi'i chwblhau, ac rwy'n disgwyl ystyried y cyngor yn ddiweddarach yr wythnos hon. Felly, ni allaf wneud sylw penodol am y materion a godwyd yn y deisebau, gan y gallai hyn amharu ar unrhyw benderfyniadau sydd i'w gwneud yn y dyddiau nesaf ar yr achosion busnes sydd gerbron Gweinidogion Cymru wrth gwrs.

Yr hyn y gallaf ei ddweud yw fy mod yn deall y diddordeb yn y cynlluniau a'r pryderon a fynegir gan y ddwy ddeiseb. Byddaf yn rhoi ystyriaeth briodol iddynt wrth wneud penderfyniad, ac wrth gwrs, pan fydd y penderfyniad hwnnw wedi'i wneud, fe gaiff ei gyhoeddi. Diolch, Lywydd.

17:15

Janet Finch-Saunders, y Cadeirydd, i ymateb i'r ddadl.

The Chair, Janet Finch-Saunders, to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Llywydd, and thank you to all Members who have contributed to this debate, and to the Minister for his response, notwithstanding the fact he highlights he does have a prejudicial interest. I was still grateful for the information he brought forward. In concluding, though, it is a point of regret that an issue of such importance has become such a divisive issue in the local area and further afield. We all appreciate this is a very emotive issue for all, and certainly the lovely comments that have been made about the hospital in its entirety have been really heartwarming to listen to. I'm hoping that today's debate will show that at the end of the day the right decision will be made in the end, and that both sides of the argument can come together. It is clear that there are strongly held views on both sides. I know that the people who have supported both petitions, as well as the Petitions Committee itself, will await further decisions with interest. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch, Lywydd, a diolch i'r holl Aelodau sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl hon, ac i'r Gweinidog am ei ymateb, er ei fod yn nodi bod ganddo fuddiant rhagfarnus. Roeddwn yn dal yn ddiolchgar am y wybodaeth a gyflwynodd. Wrth gloi, serch hynny, mae'n destun gofid fod mater mor bwysig wedi dod yn un mor ymrannol yn yr ardal leol a thu hwnt. Rydym i gyd yn deall bod hwn yn fater emosiynol iawn i bawb, ac yn sicr mae'r sylwadau hyfryd sydd wedi'u gwneud am yr ysbyty yn ei gyfanrwydd wedi bod yn galonogol iawn i wrando arnynt. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y ddadl heddiw yn dangos y bydd y penderfyniad cywir yn cael ei wneud yn y pen draw, ac y gall dwy ochr y ddadl ddod at ei gilydd. Mae'n amlwg fod safbwyntiau cryf ar y ddwy ochr. Gwn y bydd y bobl sydd wedi cefnogi'r ddwy ddeiseb, yn ogystal â'r Pwyllgor Deisebau ei hun, yn aros am benderfyniadau pellach gyda diddordeb. Diolch yn fawr.

Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid nodi'r deisebau? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu hynny? Dwi ddim yn gweld nac yn clywed gwrthwynebiad i hynny, felly derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

The proposal is to note the petitions. Does any Member object? I don't see or hear any objections to that. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

9. Dadl Grŵp y Gynghrair Annibynnol dros Ddiwygio: Buddsoddiad mewn ysgolion
9. Independent Alliance for Reform Group Debate: Investment in schools

Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Rebecca Evans, a gwelliant 2 yn enw Mark Isherwood. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-ddethol.

The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Rebecca Evans, and amendment 2 in the name of Mark Isherwood. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected.

Mae'r ddadl nesaf gan grŵp y Gynghrair Annibynnol dros Ddiwygio, a'r ddadl honno ar fuddsoddi mewn ysgolion. Dwi'n galw ar Caroline Jones i gyflwyno'r cynnig. Caroline Jones.

The next item is the Independent Alliance for Reform group debate on investment in schools. I call on Caroline Jones to move the motion. Caroline Jones.

Cynnig NDM7606 Caroline Jones

Cynnig bod y Senedd:

1. Yn cydnabod bod y diffyg buddsoddi mewn seilwaith ysgolion dros y degawdau diwethaf wedi golygu nad yw llawer o ysgolion yn addas at y diben.

2. Yn croesawu buddsoddiadau diweddar fel Rhaglen Ysgolion yr 21ain Ganrif, ond yn gresynu at y ffaith bod awdurdodau lleol yn eu defnyddio fel cyfrwng i uno ysgolion.

3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:

a) rhoi terfyn ar greu ysgolion mawr iawn sy'n niweidiol i brofiad dysgu pobl ifanc;

b) sicrhau nad yw awdurdodau addysg lleol yn defnyddio diffyg buddsoddiad fel esgus i gau ysgolion cymunedol; ac

c) cyhoeddi canllawiau i awdurdodau addysg lleol i sicrhau nad oes rhaid i ddisgyblion ysgol deithio mwy na 15 munud mewn car neu ar gludiant cyhoeddus i fynychu eu hysgol agosaf.

Motion NDM7606 Caroline Jones

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Recognises that the lack of investment in school infrastructure over recent decades has resulted in many schools not being fit for purpose.

2. Welcomes recent investment such as the 21st Century Schools Programme, but regrets the fact that this is being used as a vehicle by local education authorities to merge schools.

3. Calls upon the Welsh Government to:

a) put a halt on the creation of super schools which are detrimental to the learning experience of young people;

b) ensure that local education authorities do not use a lack of investment as an excuse to close community schools; and

c) issue guidance to local education authorities to ensure that school pupils do not have to travel more than 15 minutes by car or public transport to attend their nearest school.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. I formally move the motion tabled in my name. From a young age, I learnt a valuable lesson—that bigger is not always better. I was perhaps 12 when my small community school was merged with a much bigger one. We lost the personal relationships with our teachers, becoming just another face in the sea of faces. Thankfully, back then, such mergers were rare, and community schools were allowed to continue offering quality personal teaching. Unfortunately, successive Governments of all political hues failed to invest in those schools, allowing far too many of them to fall into disrepair. While we welcome the recent investment via the twenty-first century schools programme, it is too little, too late for many community schools forced to close not because they offered poor education—far from it—but because it was more cost-effective to close them and transfer their pupils to a superschool.

In my own region, Neath Port Talbot council, with their laughably titled strategic school improvement programme, closed Cymer Afan Comprehensive School and primary schools in the Afan valley to create a new 1,200-pupil co-educational school for pupils aged three to 16. The council went against the wishes of pupils, parents and elected officials. Councillors Scott Jones, Ralph Thomas and Nicola-Jayne Davies fought tooth and nail for their communities. Parents even took the council to the High Court and their case was dismissed, not because it had no merit, but because the judges ruled that judicial review was not the appropriate way to enforce the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015.

These mergers are not about improving the education of young people; they are, above all, about saving money. Local authorities have been allowed to rip the hearts out of many communities in order to protect budgets and to avoid hundreds of millions of pounds of repair backlogs. These superschools are usually far away from a lot of the communities that they serve, forcing pupils into long commutes. It's not unusual for pupils to face a two-hour round trip each day. Not only is this detrimental to the well-being of young people and can impact their educational attainment, but it forces pupils to abandon active travel. If it takes an hour by car or bus, how could young people be expected to walk or cycle? And we are in a climate emergency, but yet again, we're putting economics before the environment. To save costs, we're forcing more and more young people to rely upon vehicular transport, rather than planet-friendly active travel. What message does that send to future generations?

I urge Members to reject the amendments put forward and to support our motion. Thank you very much. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch, Lywydd. Rwy'n gwneud y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn fy enw i yn ffurfiol. O oedran ifanc, dysgais wers werthfawr—nad yw mwy bob amser yn well. Efallai fy mod yn 12 oed pan gafodd fy ysgol gymunedol fach ei huno ag un lawer mwy o faint. Collasom y berthynas bersonol gyda'n hathrawon, a dod yn wyneb arall yn y môr o wynebau. Diolch byth, yn ôl bryd hynny, roedd uno o'r fath yn ddigwyddiad prin, a châi ysgolion cymunedol barhau i gynnig addysgu personol o safon. Yn anffodus, methodd Llywodraethau olynol o bob lliw gwleidyddol fuddsoddi yn yr ysgolion hynny, gan ganiatáu i lawer gormod ohonynt ddadfeilio. Er ein bod yn croesawu'r buddsoddiad diweddar drwy raglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, nid yw'n ddigon, ac mae'n rhy hwyr i lawer o'r ysgolion cymunedol a orfodwyd i gau nid am eu bod yn cynnig addysg wael—ddim o gwbl—ond am ei bod yn fwy costeffeithiol eu cau a throsglwyddo eu disgyblion i ysgol fawr.

Yn fy rhanbarth i, aeth cyngor Castell-nedd Port Talbot ati, gyda'u rhaglen strategol gwella ysgolion, sy'n deitl chwerthinllyd, i gau Ysgol Gyfun Cymer Afan ac ysgolion cynradd yng nghwm Afan i greu ysgol gydaddysgol newydd i 1,200 o ddisgyblion rhwng tair ac 16 oed. Aeth y cyngor yn groes i ddymuniadau disgyblion, rhieni a swyddogion etholedig. Ymladdodd y Cynghorwyr Scott Jones, Ralph Thomas a Nicola-Jayne Davies yn galed dros eu cymunedau. Aeth rhieni â'r cyngor i'r Uchel Lys hyd yn oed, a gwrthodwyd eu hachos, nid am nad oedd iddo unrhyw rinwedd, ond am fod y barnwyr wedi dyfarnu nad adolygiad barnwrol oedd y ffordd briodol o orfodi Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015.

Nid yw uno ysgolion fel hyn yn ymwneud â gwella addysg pobl ifanc; yn anad dim, maent yn ymwneud ag arbed arian. Caniatawyd i awdurdodau lleol rwygo'r galon o lawer o gymunedau er mwyn diogelu cyllidebau ac i atal gwerth cannoedd o filiynau o bunnoedd o waith atgyweirio rhag cronni. Mae'r ysgolion mawr hyn fel arfer yn bell o lawer o'r cymunedau y maent yn eu gwasanaethu, gan orfodi disgyblion i gymudo am amser maith. Nid yw'n anarferol i ddisgyblion wynebu dwy awr o deithio bob dydd. Mae hyn yn niweidiol i les pobl ifanc a gall effeithio ar eu cyrhaeddiad addysgol, ac mae hefyd yn gorfodi disgyblion i roi'r gorau i deithio llesol. Os yw'n cymryd awr mewn car neu fws, sut y gellid disgwyl i bobl ifanc gerdded neu feicio? Ac rydym mewn argyfwng hinsawdd, ond unwaith eto, rydym yn rhoi economeg o flaen yr amgylchedd. Er mwyn arbed costau, rydym yn gorfodi mwy a mwy o bobl ifanc i ddibynnu ar gludiant cerbydau, yn hytrach na theithio llesol sy'n ystyriol o'r blaned. Pa neges y mae hynny'n ei rhoi i genedlaethau'r dyfodol?

Rwy'n annog yr Aelodau i wrthod y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd ac i gefnogi ein cynnig. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

17:20

[Anghlywadwy.] Mae'n ddrwg gen i. Roeddwn i'n siarad ffwl-pelt, ond roeddwn i ar miwt ar y pwynt yna. Felly, jest i ddweud bod yna ddau welliant i'r cynnig, ac os derbynnir gwelliant 1, bydd gwelliant 2 yn cael ei ddad-ddethol. Dwi'n galw ar y Gweinidog Addysg, felly, yn ffurfiol i gynnig gwelliant 1.

[Inaudible.] I do apologise. I was speaking at full pelt, but I was on mute, unfortunately. So, I should say that there are two amendments to the motion, and if amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. I call on the Minister for Education to formally move amendment 1.

Gwelliant 1—Rebecca Evans

Dileu popeth a rhoi yn ei le:

Cynnig bod y Senedd:

1. Yn credu y dylai pob plentyn a pherson ifanc gael cyfle i ddysgu yn yr amgylcheddau dysgu gorau.

2. Yn cydnabod bod awdurdodau lleol yn gyfrifol am gynllunio lleoedd ysgol ac am ddewis model dysgu priodol ar gyfer ardal benodol.   

3. Yn nodi bod yn rhaid i awdurdodau lleol, wrth wneud newidiadau mawr i ysgolion, gan gynnwys cau ysgolion, gydymffurfio â’r Cod Trefniadaeth Ysgolion ac ystyried ystod o ffactorau – yn bennaf oll, buddiannau dysgwyr.

4. Yn croesawu’r ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru:

a) wedi rhoi blaenoriaeth i fuddsoddi yn ystâd ysgolion a cholegau, ac yn parhau i wneud hynny drwy ei Rhaglen Ysgolion a Cholegau ar gyfer yr 21ain Ganrif;

b) am fuddsoddi mwy na £300 miliwn yn ein hysgolion a’n colegau eleni; y gwariant blynyddol uchaf ers cychwyn y rhaglen;

c) yn craffu ar y buddsoddiad yn y Rhaglen Ysgolion a Cholegau ar gyfer yr 21ain Ganrif i sicrhau bod dulliau teithio llesol yn rhan allweddol o’r ddarpariaeth newydd; a

d) yn adolygu Mesur Teithio gan Ddysgwyr (Cymru) 2008, sy’n pennu’r amodau ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol o ran y gofyniad i ddarparu dull teithio i ddysgwyr rhwng y cartref a’r ysgol, i sicrhau ei fod yn parhau yn addas i’r diben.

Amendment 1—Rebecca Evans

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Believes that all children and young people should have the opportunity to learn in the best learning environments.

2. Recognises that local authorities are responsible for planning school places and choosing an appropriate learning model for a particular area.   

3. Notes that when making major changes to schools, including school closures, local authorities must comply with the School Organisation Code and take into account a range of factors, the prime concern being the interests of learners.

4. Welcomes that the Welsh Government:

a) has prioritised investment in the schools and colleges estate and continues to do so through its 21st Century Schools and Colleges Programme;

b) will invest in excess of £300 million in our schools and colleges this year; the highest annual spend since the programme commenced;

c) scrutinises investment in the 21st Century Schools and Colleges Programme to ensure that active travel is a key part of the new provision; and

d) is reviewing the Learner Travel (Wales) Measure 2008, which sets the conditions under which local authorities are required to provide home to school travel for learners, to ensure that it remains fit for purpose.

Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.

Amendment 1 moved.

Thank you. You had me slightly concerned there for a minute, Llywydd. I formally move.

Diolch. Fe wnaethoch i mi boeni braidd am funud, Lywydd. Rwy'n cynnig yn ffurfiol.

Diolch. Dwi'n galw ar Suzy Davies, felly, nawr, i gyflwyno gwelliant 2 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Mark Isherwood.

Thank you. I call on Suzy Davies to move amendment 2, tabled in the name of Mark Isherwood.

Gwelliant 2—Mark Isherwood

Dileu pwynt 3 a rhoi yn ei le:

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:

a) rhoi terfyn ar danariannu disgyblion yng Nghymru;

b) darparu cyllid teg i awdurdodau lleol i ddiogelu ysgolion gwledig;

c) cyflwyno prosiectau yng ngham B Rhaglen Ysgolion a Cholegau'r 21ain Ganrif i ddechrau ailadeiladu Cymru;

d) sicrhau bod pob ysgol newydd yn cael ei chynllunio mewn ffordd sy'n ymwybodol o anabledd;

e) gwrthsefyll creu ysgolion mawr iawn a sicrhau nad oes unrhyw ysgol yn cael ei chau yn erbyn dymuniadau'r gymuned;

f) sicrhau na all awdurdodau addysg lleol ddefnyddio diffyg buddsoddiad fel esgus i gau ysgolion lleol; a

g) cynnal archwiliad ledled Cymru o gyflwr yr ystâd bresennol ar gyfer darpariaeth cyfrwng Cymraeg.

Amendment 2—Mark Isherwood

Delete point 3 and replace with:

Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) end the underfunding of pupils in Wales;

b) deliver fair funding for local authorities to protect rural schools;

c) bring forward projects in phase B of the 21st Century Schools and Colleges Programme to start rebuilding Wales;

d) ensure that all new schools are designed in a disability-aware way;

e) resist the creation of super schools and ensure no school is closed against community wishes;

f) ensure that local education authorities cannot use a lack of investment as an excuse to close local schools; and

g) conduct a Wales-wide audit of the condition of the existing estate for Welsh medium provision.

Cynigiwyd gwelliant 2.

Amendment 2 moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. I have never been to any schools that merged, like Caroline Jones, but I have been to some that have burnt down, and that's definitely a way of getting a new school—not that I recommend it, of course. 

Can I thank the IAR group for tabling the debate today? As you'll see from our own amendment, there's quite a bit of the motion that we agree with, and really, it's only 3(c) of the motion that we have an issue with. I do want to say upfront that we are very supportive of the twenty-first century schools programme, it's just that we, like this group, have some questions about its implementation in some cases. I just want to say that I think the particular ask for a 15-minute drive time is a pipe dream in parts of rural Wales today, let alone in the future. But I think we should look at that experience to make sure that its downsides aren't replicated in more populated areas.

I share Caroline's suspicion about how twenty-first century school applications can be used as a response to inadequate maintenance funding for councils, and even other agendas, such as the starving out of sixth forms. We saw something along those lines with St Joseph's in Port Talbot—a faith school that had retained its sixth form in a borough where all other post-16 English language education was delivered at further education colleges.

Communities and their needs change due to residential development and the drive for more Welsh-medium schools, so new strategically located schools are needed, but that impacts on local authority budgets in two ways. Firstly, there's a temptation to let more difficult parts of the estate slowly decay, which means reducing revenue maintenance costs, because a part-funded replacement capital asset sounds like quite a prize. And then, secondly, 22 local authorities trying to plan for their own footprints, regardless of attempts at collaborative working, can drive adverse behaviours and prevent more strategic and efficient decisions. I think particularly again of the Afan valley, where reconfiguration resulted in the creation of a primary school of 400 pupils, and then not even in a new building.

There's no doubt that a modern and well-designed building can assist learning. Blended learning may well be a consideration for design in the future, but you have to be able to afford the teachers as well. Members will have heard Welsh Conservatives many times call on the Government to bite the bullet on funding reform. Going back to design and point (d) of our amendment, I realise that accessibility should already be baked into design, but I do wonder whether some of these high-ceilinged atria that we see in these new schools are that great for deaf children. On a different point, toilet provision—how much thought is given to privacy and dignity and the number of units, particularly for girls? A big 'no' to gender-shared toilets as standard.

Location matters as much as design. The Bae Baglan superschool is a glorious building, but David Rees will remember well that dreadful walking route to the new school from Cwrt Sart, which was anything but an inducement to active travel. And finally, Welsh-medium schools—they're often left to occupy much more high-expense buildings, be they from the turn of the century or just falling apart, like Ysgol y Ferch o'r Sgêr in Cornelly in my own region. That's a disincentive to families considering Welsh-medium education and deserves priority attention in the twenty-first century schools programme. Diolch, Llywydd.

Diolch, Lywydd. Nid fûm erioed mewn ysgol a gafodd ei huno, fel Caroline Jones, ond bûm mewn rhai a gafodd eu llosgi, ac mae hynny'n sicr yn ffordd o gael ysgol newydd—nid fy mod yn ei hargymell, wrth gwrs. 

A gaf fi ddiolch i grŵp y Gynghrair Annibynnol dros Ddiwygio am gyflwyno'r ddadl heddiw? Fel y gwelwch o'n gwelliant ein hunain, rydym yn cytuno â chryn dipyn o'r cynnig, ac mewn gwirionedd, dim ond 3(c) o'r cynnig sy'n peri trafferth i ni. Rwyf am ddweud o'r cychwyn ein bod yn gefnogol iawn i raglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, ond mae gennym ni, fel y grŵp hwn, rai cwestiynau ynglŷn â'r modd y caiff ei gweithredu mewn rhai achosion. Hoffwn ddweud fy mod yn credu bod y gofyniad na ddylai disgyblion deithio mwy na 15 munud yn freuddwyd gwrach mewn rhannau o'r Gymru wledig heddiw, heb sôn am y dyfodol. Ond rwy'n credu y dylem edrych ar y profiad hwnnw i sicrhau nad yw ei anfanteision yn cael eu hailadrodd mewn ardaloedd mwy poblog.

Rwyf finnau'n rhannu drwgdybiaeth Caroline ynglŷn â sut y gellir defnyddio ceisiadau i'r rhaglen ysgolion ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar hugain fel ymateb i gyllid cynnal a chadw annigonol i gynghorau, a hyd yn oed agendâu eraill, megis starfio darpariaeth chweched dosbarth. Gwelsom rywbeth tebyg i hynny gyda Sant Joseff ym Mhort Talbot—ysgol ffydd a oedd wedi cadw ei chweched dosbarth mewn bwrdeistref lle câi'r holl addysg Saesneg ôl-16 arall ei darparu mewn colegau addysg bellach.

Mae cymunedau a'u hanghenion yn newid oherwydd datblygiadau preswyl a'r ymgyrch dros fwy o ysgolion cyfrwng Cymraeg, felly mae angen ysgolion newydd wedi'u lleoli'n strategol, ond mae hynny'n effeithio ar gyllidebau awdurdodau lleol mewn dwy ffordd. Yn gyntaf, ceir temtasiwn i adael i rannau mwy anodd o'r ystâd bydru'n araf, sy'n golygu lleihau costau cynnal a chadw, oherwydd mae ased cyfalaf newydd a ariennir yn rhannol yn swnio fel tipyn o wobr. Ac yna, yn ail, gall 22 awdurdod lleol sy'n ceisio cynllunio ar gyfer eu hôl troed eu hunain, ni waeth beth fo'r ymdrechion i gydweithio, ysgogi ymddygiad andwyol ac atal penderfyniadau mwy strategol ac effeithlon. Rwy'n meddwl yn benodol eto am gwm Afan, lle'r arweiniodd ad-drefnu at greu ysgol gynradd o 400 o ddisgyblion, a hynny heb fod mewn adeilad newydd hyd yn oed.

Nid oes amheuaeth y gall adeilad modern sydd wedi'i gynllunio'n dda gynorthwyo dysgu. Mae'n ddigon posibl y bydd dysgu cyfunol yn ystyriaeth ar gyfer cynllunio yn y dyfodol, ond mae'n rhaid i chi allu fforddio'r athrawon hefyd. Bydd yr Aelodau wedi clywed y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn galw droeon ar y Llywodraeth i wynebu'r her o ddiwygio cyllid. Gan fynd yn ôl at gynllunio a phwynt (d) ein gwelliant, rwy'n sylweddoli y dylai hygyrchedd fod yn rhan o gynllunio eisoes, ond tybed a yw rhai o'r atria gyda'r nenfydau uchel a welwn yn yr ysgolion newydd hyn mor wych â hynny i blant byddar. Ar bwynt gwahanol, darpariaeth toiledau—faint o feddwl a roddir i breifatrwydd ac urddas a nifer yr unedau, yn enwedig i ferched? 'Na' mawr i doiledau dirywedd fel mater o drefn.

Mae lleoliad yn cyfrif lawn cymaint â chynllun. Mae ysgol fawr Bae Baglan yn adeilad gogoneddus, ond bydd David Rees yn cofio'n dda y llwybr cerdded ofnadwy hwnnw i'r ysgol newydd o Gwrt Sart, nad oedd yn unrhyw fath o gymhelliad i deithio llesol. Ac yn olaf, ysgolion cyfrwng Cymraeg—maent yn aml yn cael eu gadael i feddiannu adeiladau llawer uwch eu cost, naill ai adeiladau o droad y ganrif neu rai sy'n syrthio'n ddarnau, fel Ysgol y Ferch o'r Sgêr yng Nghorneli yn fy rhanbarth i. Mae hynny'n ddatgymhelliad i deuluoedd sy'n ystyried addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg ac mae'n haeddu sylw blaenoriaethol yn rhaglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Diolch, Lywydd.

17:25

Dwi'n ofni bod y cynnig a gwelliant y Ceidwadwyr yn cymryd rhai materion yn ganiataol, heb dystiolaeth i gefnogi hynny. Mae yna nifer o ysgolion mawr yn fy etholaeth i sydd yn cynnig addysg ardderchog i'r disgyblion. Mae yna nifer o ysgolion bach yn fy etholaeth i sydd hefyd yn darparu addysg ardderchog i'r disgyblion. Mae'n wir hefyd bod maint ysgol yn gallu cael effaith negyddol neu effaith gadarnhaol ar ansawdd addysg. Dwi wedi gweld ysgolion mawr yn cael eu trefnu mewn ffordd effeithiol iawn, yn creu gofodau bychain ac yn hyblyg yn y ffordd y mae sgiliau eu staff yn cael eu defnyddio yn llawn er lles disgyblion. Dwi wedi gweld ysgolion bach yn gwneud gwaith ardderchog er gwaethaf y problemau a'r heriau maen nhw'n eu hwynebu. Mae yna lawer iawn o ffactorau yn effeithio ar ansawdd addysg, ac mi fyddwn i'n dadlau bod athrawon ardderchog sy'n ysbrydoli disgyblion ac yn codi eu disgwyliadau yn ffactor hollbwysig. Mae hynny'n gallu digwydd mewn ysgolion mawr a bach fel ei gilydd.

Dwi'n mynd i droi rŵan at fater arall sy'n cael sylw yn y cynnig, sef y daith o'r cartref i'r ysgol. Mae gwelliant y Llywodraeth yn crybwyll bod yna adolygiad yn digwydd o'r Mesur Teithio gan Ddysgwyr (Cymru) 2008. Mae adran 10 y Mesur teithio yn cynnwys dyletswydd gyffredinol fod yn rhaid i bob awdurdod lleol a Gweinidogion Cymru hybu mynediad at addysg a hyfforddiant drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg pan fyddan nhw'n arfer swyddogaethau o dan y Mesur. Yn y ddogfen ganllaw a gyhoeddwyd yn 2014, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cadarnhau bod angen i awdurdodau lleol weithredu eu dyletswydd i hybu addysg a hyfforddiant drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg wrth benderfynu ar yr ysgol agosaf addas. Ond, mae'r awgrym bod yr ysgol agosaf yn gallu bod yn addas, er nad ydy hi'n darparu'r cyfrwng iaith o ddewis, yn gyfeiliornus, ac yn deillio o'r ffaith bod y cysyniad o 'ysgol addas' yn cael ei ddiffinio yn gul yn y Mesur, mewn ffordd sydd ddim yn cyfeirio o gwbl at addasrwydd o ran cyfrwng iaith yr addysg sy'n cael ei darparu. Mae hwn yn ymddangos fel gwendid sylfaenol wrth geisio pennu'r dyletswyddau sy'n deillio o'r ddeddfwriaeth. Felly, mae angen i unrhyw adolygiad sydd yn digwydd gymryd ystyriaeth lawn o hynny, a hefyd o'r dyfarniadau llys diweddar ynglŷn ag addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg yn ardal Rhondda Cynon Taf.

Dwi'n nodi bod cwmpas gwreiddiol yr adolygiad yma wedi cael ei ehangu bellach i gynnwys y grŵp oedran 4 i 16 mlwydd oed yn ogystal ag ôl-16, felly mae yna gyfle yn y fan hyn i wneud gwahaniaeth. Mae'n debyg, erbyn hyn, mai mater i'r Senedd nesaf fydd unrhyw newidiadau yn deillio o'r adolygiad, ac mae hi yn siomedig na fu cynnydd ar hyn y tymor yma. Felly, diolch yn fawr am y cyfle i gynnig y sylwadau yna, ac er ein bod ni yn cytuno efo elfennau o'r cynnig a'r gwelliannau, mae yna elfennau ynddyn nhw i gyd na fedrwn ni ddim eu cefnogi hefyd, ac felly mi fyddwn ni'n pleidleisio yn eu herbyn nhw heddiw. Diolch, Llywydd.

I fear that the motion and the Conservative amendment take certain issues for granted without evidence to support them. There are a number of large schools in my constituency providing excellent education to the pupils. There are also many small schools in my constituency providing excellent education to their pupils. It's also true to say that the size of a school can have a negative or a positive impact on the quality of education. I've seen large schools being run in a very effective manner, creating small spaces and being flexible in the way that their staff's skills are used to the greatest extent for the benefit of pupils. I've seen small schools doing excellent work despite the problems and challenges that they face. There are many factors affecting the quality of education, and I would argue that excellent teachers inspiring pupils and raising their expectations are a crucially important factor. That can happen in large schools and small schools alike.

I'll turn now to another issue addressed in the motion, namely the journey from home to school. The Government amendment mentions that there is a review of the Learner Travel (Wales) Measure 2008. Section 10 of that Measure includes a general duty that every local authority and Welsh Ministers must promote access to education and training through the medium of Welsh when they exercise functions under the Measure. In the guidance document published in 2014, the Welsh Government confirms that local authorities must act upon that duty to promote Welsh-medium education and training in deciding upon the closest appropriate school. But, the suggestion that the closest school could be appropriate although it doesn't provide the language of choice is unacceptable and emanates from the fact that the concept of an 'appropriate school' is defined very narrowly in the Measure, in a way that makes no reference to its appropriateness in terms of the medium of the language of the education provided. This does appear as a fundamental weakness in trying to look at the responsibilities emerging from the legislation. So, any review that happens needs to take full account of that point and, also, of the court decisions recently on Welsh-medium education in the Rhondda Cynon Taf area.

I note that the original remit of this review has now been expanded to include the 4 to 16 age group as well the post-16 age group, so there is an opportunity here to make a difference. I suppose this will now be a matter for the next Senedd, in terms of any changes emerging from the review, and it is disappointing that there hasn't been progress made during this term. So, thank you for the opportunity to make those comments, and although we agree with elements of the motion and elements of the amendments, there are also elements that we are unable to support, and therefore we will be voting against them today. Thank you, Llywydd.

17:30

Dwi'n galw nawr ar y Gweinidog Addysg i gyfrannu at y ddadl.

I call on the Minister for Education to contribute to the debate.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. The twenty-first century schools and colleges programme is the biggest investment in our education estate since the 1960s, having already seen £1.5 billion investment to improve the learning environment for our children and young people. And since its launch in 2014, it's seen the delivery of 170 new or refurbishment projects under the first wave of the investment, and a further 200 projects are proposed under the second wave of investment, which began in 2019. Indeed, this financial year—2020-21—under the most difficult of circumstances, we will see the highest annual spend so far under the programme, of almost £300 million in our schools and colleges.

Can I begin by welcoming the points that Siân Gwenllian made around excellence in all types of schools—small schools, large schools, primary, secondary and in our through schools? And it is that leadership and excellent teaching that really makes a difference. But, being able to do that in a building that is fit for purpose, I would argue, is also really important, and sends a very clear message to both our teachers and our children that their education and the work that goes on in those buildings is really important to us.

Now, Caroline Jones also raised the issue of maintenance budgets for local authorities for schools. Can I just say, Caroline, above and beyond the twenty-first century programme, every single year I have been the Minister for Education, we have been able to provide local authorities across Wales with millions of pounds worth of additional maintenance moneys to support their schools? Indeed, only on Monday of this week, I announced an investment of £50 million to be shared between the local authorities of Wales precisely for this purpose of schools maintenance.

Now, the success of the twenty-first century programme is a reflection of the partnership working which is key to its delivery, and it's important that our key stakeholders, local authorities, and colleges are strategic in their investment, and deliver the right schools and colleges in the right places to meet local community needs. And it's important that those decisions are made to benefit local communities, and that's why we have not been prescriptive, as school delivery models can and do differ between communities. As you well know, local authorities have the responsibility for planning school places to ensure that their children and young people have the very best environment in which to learn, and each one of those decisions will be unique to those communities, and I believe that our local authorities are best placed to understand what fits the needs for their learners.

The school organisation code sets a high standard for consultation if there are changes to that pattern of delivery, and all of those with an interest have an opportunity to have their views heard and known, and for these to be taken into account when any major changes are proposed for schools. The code ensures that a range of factors are considered, primary of which is the interests of learners, but distance to travel is also a factor. I know that Members have expressed concerns that some local authorities are carrying out consultations under the school organisation code during this pandemic, and I would draw Members' attention to additional guidance that we have produced for local authorities on how they should go about such consultations during this pandemic.

Siân Gwenllian raised the issue of the learner travel Measure, and she is right to point to the review. She raises an interesting issue with regard to what is deemed to be a suitable school and how language is not stated in those particular sections. Can I just say, I was fortunate enough to be on the committee that looked at that Measure when it came before the then Assembly? I think the Deputy Presiding Officer was on the committee with me at that time, and I'm sure the Deputy Presiding Officer could confirm that this issue was discussed, at length, as a potential approach but was rejected by the then Minister, Ieuan Wyn Jones, as being inappropriate, but the learner travel Measure gives us an opportunity to relook at those decisions.

Now, the school organisation code not only recognises the potential for school closures but for those situations where schools should remain open, and in some circumstances, it is more appropriate for existing schools to be refurbished, remodelled or extended, and all of those things are possible under the twenty-first century schools programme. Members will also be aware that I have put in place special arrangements, when rural schools are considered, to ensure that the best decisions are made for learners in those settings.

In order to support the delivery of the twenty-first century programme, we've also incorporated streams that look at childcare facilities, Welsh-medium delivery—and Suzy Davies is correct: when I think of the history of the development of Welsh-medium primary education in the town of Brecon, they were moved into a school that had been deemed unfit and had been left by the English-medium pupils, and that's where they found themselves. Now, fortunately, they have a new build, and during my time as Minister, we have provided 100 per cent capital funding for local authorities to build more Welsh-medium places. That fund was oversubscribed, and I am considering whether we can provide further assistance of this kind to support our aim for 1 million Welsh speakers. We also have a stream that has looked to reduce infant class sizes and to support faith-based education, and, where possible, to support the development of community hubs at school premises. So, no one funding model fits all, so we have a variety of ways in which we can support developments.

We've already seen the positive impact that new and refurbished primary and secondary schools have made to learners, greatly enhancing their learning experience. And we've also seen that all-through schools are beneficial in certain community settings, allowing for a single leadership and management team, providing greater consistency of learning and teaching, and greater continuity and familiarity for the learner. However, we also recognise that policy guidance is needed to inform future decisions about the creation of all-age schools, and the aspects of pedagogy associated with them, well-being and leadership. All of those things need careful consideration, recognition and support, and that's why we're supporting the all-age schools network to undertake school-based research, and have done so since 2019, and an Estyn thematic survey of all-age schools to focus on the benefits and challenges of that all-age model. So, we're not ploughing on regardless; these are interesting new models that are being developed by local authorities of all political hues in Wales, and we're working with them to have research, to understand the benefits and the challenges of such models.

I am, representing a rural constituency, very mindful of the impact that long journeys have on our children and pupils, but for a range of reasons, introducing a maximum travel time is not considered to be practically feasible, as Suzy Davies suggested. What might constitute an appropriate theoretical travel time in one local authority is very unlikely to be applicable for all. School investment is not just about providing buildings; it's about making them fit for purpose to deliver the best learning environment, and I'm really proud of how investment so far has improved facilities and has had a positive impact on learning, teaching and meeting the needs of local communities. And I'm really pleased that the partnership approach, with our local authorities and with our colleges, is working well and giving them the flexibility to identify the best learning solutions for their specific areas. But thank you very much for the opportunity to celebrate the success of the twenty-first century schools programme. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Rhaglen ysgolion a cholegau'r unfed ganrif ar hugain yw'r buddsoddiad mwyaf yn ein hystâd addysg ers y 1960au, ar ôl gweld buddsoddiad o £1.5 biliwn eisoes i wella'r amgylchedd dysgu i'n plant a'n pobl ifanc. Ac ers ei lansio yn 2014, fe'i gwelwyd yn cyflawni 170 o brosiectau newydd neu brosiectau adnewyddu o dan y don gyntaf o fuddsoddiad, ac mae 200 o brosiectau eraill wedi'u cynnig o dan yr ail don o fuddsoddiad, a ddechreuodd yn 2019. Yn wir, y flwyddyn ariannol hon—2020-21—o dan yr amgylchiadau anoddaf, gwelwn y gwariant blynyddol uchaf hyd yma o dan y rhaglen, sef bron i £300 miliwn o fuddsoddiad yn ein hysgolion a'n colegau.

A gaf fi ddechrau drwy groesawu'r pwyntiau a wnaeth Siân Gwenllian am ragoriaeth ym mhob math o ysgol—ysgolion bach, ysgolion mawr, cynradd, uwchradd ac yn ein hysgolion pob oed? A'r arweinyddiaeth honno ac addysgu rhagorol sy'n gwneud gwahaniaeth go iawn. Ond byddwn yn dadlau bod gallu gwneud hynny mewn adeilad sy'n addas i'r diben hefyd yn bwysig iawn, ac yn anfon neges glir iawn i'n hathrawon a'n plant fod eu haddysg a'r gwaith sy'n digwydd yn yr adeiladau hynny yn eithriadol o bwysig i ni.

Nawr, nododd Caroline Jones fater cyllidebau cynnal a chadw awdurdodau lleol ar gyfer ysgolion. A gaf fi ddweud, Caroline, uwchlaw a thu hwnt i raglen yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, bob blwyddyn y bûm yn Weinidog Addysg, rydym wedi gallu rhoi gwerth miliynau o bunnoedd o arian cynnal a chadw ychwanegol i awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru allu cefnogi eu hysgolion? Yn wir, ddydd Llun yr wythnos hon yn unig, cyhoeddais fuddsoddiad o £50 miliwn i'w rannu rhwng awdurdodau lleol Cymru ar gyfer yr union ddiben hwn, sef cynnal a chadw ysgolion.

Nawr, mae llwyddiant rhaglen yr unfed ganrif ar hugain yn adlewyrchiad o'r gwaith partneriaeth sy'n allweddol i'w gyflawniad, ac mae'n bwysig fod ein rhanddeiliaid allweddol, awdurdodau lleol a cholegau yn strategol yn eu buddsoddiad, ac yn darparu'r ysgolion a'r colegau cywir yn y mannau cywir i ddiwallu anghenion cymunedol lleol. Ac mae'n bwysig fod y penderfyniadau hynny'n cael eu gwneud er budd cymunedau lleol, a dyna pam nad ydym wedi bod yn rhagnodol, gan y gall modelau darparu ysgolion amrywio o un gymuned i'r llall. Fel y gwyddoch yn iawn, awdurdodau lleol sy'n gyfrifol am gynllunio lleoedd mewn ysgolion i sicrhau bod gan eu plant a'u pobl ifanc yr amgylchedd gorau posibl i ddysgu ynddo, a bydd pob un o'r penderfyniadau'n unigryw i'r cymunedau hynny, a chredaf mai ein awdurdodau lleol sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i ddeall beth sy'n gweddu i anghenion eu dysgwyr.

Mae'r cod trefniadaeth ysgolion yn gosod safon uchel ar gyfer ymgynghori os oes newidiadau i'r patrwm darparu, ac mae gan bawb sydd â diddordeb gyfle i sicrhau bod eu barn yn hysbys ac yn cael ei chlywed, ac iddi gael eu hystyried pan argymhellir unrhyw newidiadau mawr i ysgolion. Mae'r cod yn sicrhau bod ystod o ffactorau'n cael eu hystyried, a buddiannau dysgwyr yn flaenaf yn eu plith, ond mae pellter teithio hefyd yn ffactor. Gwn fod yr Aelodau wedi mynegi pryderon fod rhai awdurdodau lleol yn cynnal ymgynghoriadau o dan y cod trefniadaeth ysgolion yn ystod y pandemig hwn, a hoffwn dynnu sylw'r Aelodau at ganllawiau ychwanegol a gynhyrchwyd gennym i awdurdodau lleol ar sut y dylent fynd ati i gynnal ymgynghoriadau o'r fath yn ystod y pandemig hwn.

Nododd Siân Gwenllian fater y Mesur teithio gan ddysgwyr, ac mae'n iawn i dynnu sylw at yr adolygiad. Mae'n nodi mater diddorol o ran yr hyn a ystyrir yn ysgol addas a sut na chaiff iaith ei nodi yn yr adrannau penodol hynny. A gaf fi ddweud, roeddwn yn ddigon ffodus i fod ar y pwyllgor a edrychodd ar y Mesur hwnnw pan ddaeth gerbron y Cynulliad ar y pryd? Rwy'n credu bod y Dirprwy Lywydd ar y pwyllgor gyda mi bryd hynny, ac rwy'n siŵr y gallai'r Dirprwy Lywydd gadarnhau bod y mater hwn wedi'i drafod yn helaeth fel dull posibl o weithredu ond fe'i gwrthodwyd gan y Gweinidog ar y pryd, Ieuan Wyn Jones, fel rhywbeth amhriodol, ond mae'r Mesur teithio gan ddysgwyr yn rhoi cyfle i ni ailedrych ar y penderfyniadau hynny.

Nawr, mae cod trefniadaeth ysgolion nid yn unig yn cydnabod y potensial ar gyfer cau ysgolion ond ar gyfer y sefyllfaoedd lle dylai ysgolion aros ar agor, ac mewn rhai amgylchiadau, mae'n fwy priodol i ysgolion presennol gael eu hadnewyddu, eu hailfodelu neu eu hymestyn, ac mae'r holl bethau hynny'n bosibl o dan raglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Bydd yr Aelodau hefyd yn ymwybodol fy mod wedi rhoi trefniadau arbennig ar waith, pan gaiff ysgolion gwledig eu hystyried, i sicrhau bod y penderfyniadau gorau'n cael eu gwneud ar gyfer dysgwyr yn y lleoliadau hynny.

Er mwyn cefnogi'r gwaith o gyflwyno rhaglen yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, rydym hefyd wedi ymgorffori ffrydiau sy'n edrych ar gyfleusterau gofal plant, darpariaeth cyfrwng Cymraeg—ac mae Suzy Davies yn gywir: pan feddyliaf am hanes datblygu addysg gynradd cyfrwng Cymraeg yn nhref Aberhonddu, cawsant eu symud i ysgol a oedd wedi'i barnu'n anaddas ac wedi'i gadael gan y disgyblion cyfrwng Saesneg, a dyna lle roeddent. Nawr, yn ffodus, mae ganddynt adeilad newydd, ac yn ystod fy nghyfnod fel Gweinidog, rydym wedi darparu cyllid cyfalaf o 100 y cant i awdurdodau lleol adeiladu mwy o leoedd cyfrwng Cymraeg. Roedd mwy o alw nag y gellid darparu ar ei gyfer am y gronfa honno, ac rwy'n ystyried a allwn ddarparu cymorth pellach o'r math hwn i gefnogi ein nod i sicrhau 1 filiwn o siaradwyr Cymraeg. Mae gennym hefyd ffrwd sydd wedi ceisio lleihau maint dosbarthiadau babanod a chefnogi addysg ffydd, a lle bo'n bosibl, cefnogi datblygiad canolfannau cymunedol ar safleoedd ysgolion. Ni cheir un model ariannu sy'n addas i bawb, felly mae gennym amrywiaeth o ffyrdd o gefnogi datblygiadau.

Rydym eisoes wedi gweld yr effaith gadarnhaol y mae ysgolion cynradd ac uwchradd newydd ac wedi'u hadnewyddu wedi'i chael ar ddysgwyr, gan wella eu profiad dysgu yn fawr. Ac rydym hefyd wedi gweld bod ysgolion pob oed yn fuddiol mewn rhai lleoliadau cymunedol, gan ganiatáu ar gyfer un tîm arwain a rheoli, i ddarparu mwy o gysondeb dysgu ac addysgu, a mwy o barhad ac agosrwydd i'r dysgwr. Fodd bynnag, rydym hefyd yn cydnabod bod angen canllawiau polisi i lywio penderfyniadau yn y dyfodol ynghylch creu ysgolion pob oed, a'r agweddau ar addysgeg sy'n gysylltiedig â hwy, sef llesiant ac arweinyddiaeth. Mae angen ystyried, cydnabod a chefnogi'r holl bethau hynny'n ofalus, a dyna pam rydym yn cefnogi'r rhwydwaith ysgolion pob oed i gyflawni ymchwil mewn ysgolion, ac wedi gwneud hynny ers 2019, ac arolwg thematig gan Estyn o ysgolion pob oed i ganolbwyntio ar fanteision a heriau'r model oedran hwnnw. Felly, nid ydym yn bwrw yn ein blaenau'n ddall; mae'r rhain yn fodelau newydd diddorol sy'n cael eu datblygu gan awdurdodau lleol o bob lliw gwleidyddol yng Nghymru, ac rydym yn gweithio gyda hwy i gael ymchwil, i ddeall manteision a heriau modelau o'r fath.

Gan fy mod yn cynrychioli etholaeth wledig, rwy'n ymwybodol iawn o'r effaith y mae teithiau hir yn ei chael ar ein plant a'n disgyblion, ond am amryw o resymau, nid ystyrir bod cyflwyno terfyn uchaf ar amser teithio yn arbennig o ymarferol, fel yr awgrymodd Suzy Davies. Mae'n annhebygol iawn y bydd yr hyn a allai fod yn amser teithio damcaniaethol priodol mewn un awdurdod lleol yn berthnasol i bawb. Mae buddsoddi mewn ysgolion yn ymwneud â mwy na darparu adeiladau'n unig; mae'n ymwneud â'u gwneud yn addas i'r diben o ddarparu'r amgylchedd dysgu gorau, ac rwy'n falch iawn o'r ffordd y mae buddsoddiad hyd yma wedi gwella cyfleusterau ac wedi cael effaith gadarnhaol ar ddysgu, addysgu a diwallu anghenion cymunedau lleol. Ac rwy'n falch iawn fod y dull partneriaeth, gyda'n hawdurdodau lleol a chyda'n colegau, yn gweithio'n dda ac yn rhoi hyblygrwydd iddynt nodi'r atebion dysgu gorau ar gyfer eu hardaloedd hwy. Ond diolch yn fawr am y cyfle i ddathlu llwyddiant rhaglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Diolch yn fawr.

17:35

Dwi'n galw nawr ar David Rowlands i ymateb i'r ddadl.

I now call on David Rowlands to reply to the debate.

Yes, diolch, Llywydd. Can I thank all those who've contributed to this debate? But, as always, the arguments put forward by my colleague Caroline Jones are largely ignored. The Welsh Government says it is committed to a zero-carbon economy in Wales and that active travel is to play a significant role in achieving their goals, but a policy of school centralisation will, as Caroline Jones pointed out, almost undoubtedly negate the ability of our schoolchildren to engage in either walking or cycling to school. Not only are we centralising our schools, we are centralising parts of schools, with the introduction of sixth-form colleges—a policy vehemently opposed by many of the teaching community. Amongst other things, it removes the vital element of role modelling that sixth-form pupils often bring to the school environment. Again, it's totally against the environmental principles of Government policy. In my own constituency of Torfaen, we have seen the establishment of a sixth-form college in Cwmbran, which will be attended by pupils from towns such Blaenavon, some 10 miles away in the north of the borough. There is the added uncertainty that winter months could see considerable disruption to school attendance with adverse weather conditions. Blaenavon in the north of the county experiences much more snow than does the south of Torfaen. 

Yes, it is true to say that the Welsh Government has spent a great deal of money on improving many of the schools right throughout Wales. However, we will question whether that money has been spent wisely. As Caroline has intimated, the move to large occupant—very large—teaching institutions means that our schoolchildren are totally losing out on the personal interaction with their teachers, and even with their fellow pupils. Schools of 1,200 pupils or more are nothing less than battery-learning institutions, where teachers do not know each other, let alone their pupils. Almost every large school in Torfaen is failing by Estyn standards, with most being in special measures. Bullying is a serious problem in these schools, causing misery to thousands of our schoolchildren. It is time to halt this shift to these mega schools and concentrate on smaller, more intimate units where pupil-teacher relationships can build trust as well as imparting knowledge. Thank you. Diolch, Llywydd.

Ie, diolch, Lywydd. A gaf fi ddiolch i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl hon? Ond fel bob amser, anwybyddir y dadleuon a gyflwynwyd gan fy nghyd-Aelod Caroline Jones i raddau helaeth. Dywed Llywodraeth Cymru ei bod wedi ymrwymo i economi ddi-garbon yng Nghymru a bod teithio llesol i chwarae rhan bwysig yn y gwaith o gyflawni eu nodau, ond bydd polisi o ganoli ysgolion, fel y nododd Caroline Jones, bron yn ddi-os yn negyddu gallu ein plant ysgol i gymryd rhan naill ai mewn cerdded neu feicio i'r ysgol. Rydym nid yn unig yn canoli ein hysgolion, rydym yn canoli rhannau o ysgolion, gyda chyflwyno colegau chweched dosbarth—polisi a wrthwynebir yn chwyrn gan lawer o'r gymuned addysgu. Ymhlith pethau eraill, mae'n dileu'r elfen hanfodol a gyflwynir yn aml i amgylchedd yr ysgol wrth i ddisgyblion chweched dosbarth weithredu fel modelau rôl. Unwaith eto, mae'n gwbl groes i egwyddorion amgylcheddol polisi Llywodraeth. Yn fy etholaeth i, sef Torfaen, gwelsom sefydlu coleg chweched dosbarth yng Nghwmbrân, a fynychir gan ddisgyblion o drefi fel Blaenafon, tua 10 milltir i ffwrdd yng ngogledd y fwrdeistref. Ceir ansicrwydd ychwanegol y gallai tywydd garw ym misoedd y gaeaf amharu'n sylweddol ar bresenoldeb yn yr ysgol. Mae Blaenafon yng ngogledd y sir yn cael llawer mwy o eira na de Torfaen. 

Ydy, mae'n wir dweud bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gwario llawer iawn o arian ar wella llawer o'r ysgolion ledled Cymru. Fodd bynnag, byddwn yn cwestiynu a yw'r arian hwnnw wedi'i wario'n ddoeth. Fel y mae Caroline wedi awgrymu, mae symud i sefydliadau addysgu mawr—mawr iawn—yn golygu bod ein plant ysgol yn colli'r rhyngweithio personol â'u hathrawon, a hyd yn oed â'u cyd-ddisgyblion. Nid yw ysgolion o 1,200 o ddisgyblion neu fwy yn ddim llai na sefydliadau dysgu batri, lle nad yw athrawon yn adnabod ei gilydd, heb sôn am eu disgyblion. Mae bron bob ysgol fawr yn Nhorfaen yn methu yn ôl safonau Estyn, gyda'r rhan fwyaf mewn mesurau arbennig. Mae bwlio yn broblem ddifrifol yn yr ysgolion hyn, gan achosi trallod i filoedd o'n plant ysgol. Mae'n bryd atal y newid i'r mega-ysgolion hyn a chanolbwyntio ar unedau llai, mwy personol lle gall y berthynas rhwng disgybl ac athro feithrin ymddiriedaeth yn ogystal â chyflwyno gwybodaeth. Diolch, Lywydd.

17:40

Diolch. Y cwestiwn felly yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Oes, dwi'n gweld gwrthwynebiad, ac felly fe wnawn ni ohirio'r bleidlais ar y cynnig yma tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Thank you. The proposal therefore is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, I see that there objections, and we will therefore defer voting under this item until voting time. 

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Voting deferred until voting time.

Ac rŷn ni nawr yn cyrraedd y cyfnod pleidleisio, ac felly fe gymerwn ni doriad byr ar gyfer paratoi ar gyfer y bleidlais. Diolch yn fawr.

And that brings us to voting time, so we will take a short break to prepare for the votes. Thank you.

Ataliwyd y Cyfarfod Llawn am 17:42.

Plenary was suspended at 17:42.

17:45

Ailymgynullodd y Senedd am 17:47, gyda'r Dirprwy Lywydd yn y Gadair.

The Senedd reconvened at 17:47, with the Deputy Presiding Officer in the Chair.

10. Cyfnod Pleidleisio
10. Voting Time

We'll now proceed to voting time, and the first vote this afternoon is a motion to annul the Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) Regulations 2021. I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Llyr Griffiths. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 27, no abstentions, 30 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed.

Symudwn ymlaen yn awr at y cyfnod pleidleisio, a'r bleidlais gyntaf y prynhawn yma yw cynnig i ddirymu Rheoliadau Adnoddau Dŵr (Rheoli Llygredd Amaethyddol) (Cymru) 2021. Galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw Llyr Griffiths. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig 27, neb yn ymatal, 30 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd y cynnig.

Eitem 5 - Cynnig i ddirymu Rheoliadau Adnoddau Dŵr (Rheoli Llygredd Amaethyddol) (Cymru) 2021: O blaid: 27, Yn erbyn: 30, Ymatal: 0

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig

Item 5 - Motion to Annul The Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) Regulations 2021: For: 27, Against: 30, Abstain: 0

Motion has been rejected

We'll now move to vote on the Independent Alliance for Reform group debate on investment in schools, and I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Caroline Jones. If the proposal is not agreed, we'll vote on the amendments tabled to the motion. So, open the vote. All voted. Close the vote. For the motion seven, three abstentions, 47 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed.

Symudwn ymlaen yn awr i bleidleisio ar ddadl grŵp y Gynghrair Annibynnol dros Ddiwygio ar fuddsoddiad mewn ysgolion, a galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw Caroline Jones. Os na dderbynnir y cynnig, byddwn yn pleidleisio ar y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i'r cynnig. Felly, agor y bleidlais. Pawb wedi pleidleisio. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig saith, tri yn ymatal, 47 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd y cynnig.

Eitem 9 - Dadl y Grŵp Gynghrair Annibynnol dros Ddiwygio - Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 7, Yn erbyn: 47, Ymatal: 3

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig

Item 9 - Independent Alliance for Reform Group Debate - Motion without amendment: For: 7, Against: 47, Abstain: 3

Motion has been rejected

We now turn to vote on the amendments. So, I call for a vote on the amendment. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. So, I call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 30, two abstentions, 25 against. Therefore amendment 1 is agreed. 

Pleidleisiwn yn awr ar y gwelliannau. Felly, galwaf am bleidlais ar y gwelliant. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-ddethol. Felly, galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 1 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y gwelliant 30, dau'n ymatal, 25 yn erbyn. Gan hynny, derbynnir gwelliant 1.

17:50

Eitem 9 - Gwelliant 1 - Cyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans: O blaid: 30, Yn erbyn: 25, Ymatal: 2

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant

Item 9 - Amendment 1 - Tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans: For: 30, Against: 25, Abstain: 2

Amendment has been agreed

Amendment 2 is then deselected. 

Felly, mae gwelliant 2 wedi'i ddad-ddethol.

Cafodd gwelliant 2 ei ddad-dethol.

Amendment 2 deselected.

So, we now go to vote—call for a vote on the motion as amended. 

Felly, pleidleisiwn yn awr—galw am bleidlais ar y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd.

Cynnig NDM7606 fel y'i diwygiwyd

Cynnig bod y Senedd:

1. Yn credu y dylai pob plentyn a pherson ifanc gael cyfle i ddysgu yn yr amgylcheddau dysgu gorau.

2. Yn cydnabod bod awdurdodau lleol yn gyfrifol am gynllunio lleoedd ysgol ac am ddewis model dysgu priodol ar gyfer ardal benodol.   

3. Yn nodi bod yn rhaid i awdurdodau lleol, wrth wneud newidiadau mawr i ysgolion, gan gynnwys cau ysgolion, gydymffurfio â’r Cod Trefniadaeth Ysgolion ac ystyried ystod o ffactorau – yn bennaf oll, buddiannau dysgwyr.

4. Yn croesawu’r ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru:

a) wedi rhoi blaenoriaeth i fuddsoddi yn ystâd ysgolion a cholegau, ac yn parhau i wneud hynny drwy ei Rhaglen Ysgolion a Cholegau ar gyfer yr 21ain Ganrif;

b) am fuddsoddi mwy na £300 miliwn yn ein hysgolion a’n colegau eleni; y gwariant blynyddol uchaf ers cychwyn y rhaglen;

c) yn craffu ar y buddsoddiad yn y Rhaglen Ysgolion a Cholegau ar gyfer yr 21ain Ganrif i sicrhau bod dulliau teithio llesol yn rhan allweddol o’r ddarpariaeth newydd; a

d) yn adolygu Mesur Teithio gan Ddysgwyr (Cymru) 2008, sy’n pennu’r amodau ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol o ran y gofyniad i ddarparu dull teithio i ddysgwyr rhwng y cartref a’r ysgol, i sicrhau ei fod yn parhau yn addas i’r diben.

Motion NDM7606 as amended

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Believes that all children and young people should have the opportunity to learn in the best learning environments.

2. Recognises that local authorities are responsible for planning school places and choosing an appropriate learning model for a particular area.   

3. Notes that when making major changes to schools, including school closures, local authorities must comply with the School Organisation Code and take into account a range of factors, the prime concern being the interests of learners.

4. Welcomes that the Welsh Government:

a) has prioritised investment in the schools and colleges estate and continues to do so through its 21st Century Schools and Colleges Programme;

b) will invest in excess of £300 million in our schools and colleges this year; the highest annual spend since the programme commenced;

c) scrutinises investment in the 21st Century Schools and Colleges Programme to ensure that active travel is a key part of the new provision; and

d) is reviewing the Learner Travel (Wales) Measure 2008, which sets the conditions under which local authorities are required to provide home to school travel for learners, to ensure that it remains fit for purpose.

Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amended motion 29, three abstentions, 25 against. Therefore, the amended motion is carried. 

Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd 29, tri'n ymatal, 25 yn erbyn. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd.

Eitem 9 - Dadl y Grwp Gynghrair Annibynnol dros Ddiwygio - Cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd: O blaid: 29, Yn erbyn: 25, Ymatal: 3

Derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd

Item 9 - Independent Alliance for Reform Group Debate - Motion as amended: For: 29, Against: 25, Abstain: 3

Motion as amended has been agreed

11. Dadl Fer: Addasu tai Cymru nawr ar gyfer pobol sydd yn byw gyda Clefyd Motor Niwron: sut allwn ni wneud yn sicr fod pobl sydd yn byw gyda MND yn cael cartrefi diogel a hygyrch, gan gadw eu annibyniaeth, urddas ag ansawdd bywyd
11. Short Debate: Adapt now Welsh homes for motor neurone disease: how can we make sure people living with MND have safe and accessible homes, maintaining independence, dignity and quality of life

We now move to the next item on our agenda, which is the short debate, and I call on Nick Ramsay to speak on the topic he has chosen. Nick Ramsay. 

Symudwn yn awr at yr eitem nesaf ar ein hagenda, sef y ddadl fer, a galwaf ar Nick Ramsay i siarad am y pwnc y mae wedi'i ddewis. Nick Ramsay.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm delighted to, once again, be able to raise the issue of motor neurone disease in the Senedd, and I've agreed to Mark Isherwood and Dai Lloyd that they can have a minute of my time. 

In 2014, I held a short debate on the plight of people living with motor neurone disease and called on the Welsh Government to recognise some of the challenges that people in Wales are facing and look at ways it can better support the MND community. While some progress has been made, and for that I know that I and people living with MND are very grateful, there's still much more than can and should be done. Today's debate specifically is about the need to support people living with MND by adapting the current process and making it easier for them and their families to adapt their homes in response to living with the condition.

Undoubtedly, MND is a cruel disease. It's one that robs people of their dignity and, unfortunately, carries quite literally a death sentence. And so if one message is taken from this debate, it's that time is critical for people living with MND. It's believed that MND kills a third of people within a year and more than half within two years, and so time is so important in ensuring that they can live in a safe and suitable home. Housing adaptations and the process by which they are made to a property need to be quicker, more joined up and ultimately need to recognise the importance of swift action to ensure that people living with MND can live as comfortably as possible. 

Now, in 2018, the Auditor General for Wales published a very important report on housing adaptations more generally, and that report highlighted a number of significant issues. Indeed, that report states that user satisfaction with housing adaptations masks a hugely complicated reactive and inequitable system that is not delivering for all those who may need it, and public bodies are not taking opportunities to improve value for money. The report also highlights that the current system for delivering adaptations reinforces inequalities for some disabled and older people, and addressing need is complicated by the different sources of funding. And people living with motor neurone disease are very much within the umbrella of people living with complex neurological problems who are struggling to adapt their homes quickly enough. 

Now, following the auditor general's report, the Public Accounts Committee, which I chair, also undertook a short inquiry into housing adaptations to focus on some of the themes and established ways in which we could help guide the Welsh Government to improve its processes. What the committee found was that there were so many sources of funding and policies for adaptations it results in disabled and older people receiving different standards of service and therefore the Welsh Government needed to set standards for all adaptations to ensure disabled and older people receive the same standard of service irrespective of where they live, who their property owner is, and whether indeed they own their own home. 

Now, to the Welsh Government's credit, some very important work has been done to review and implement changes to the adaptations process, and I fully appreciate, and the MND Association fully appreciate, that this is a process that will take time. As I understand it, the Welsh Government has established service standards that apply to all adaptations irrespective of tenure, provider or source of funding, and that's been in force since April 2019. Secondly, the Welsh Government has attempted to review the policy on means testing and implement changes, and I know that some work has been done with the housing adaptation steering group, the HASG, looking at how means testing should not be applied to less complex small and medium adaptations or individuals receiving palliative and end-of-life care. The Wales Centre for Public Policy was then tasked to take this forward, involving significant engagement with local authorities. However, the current COVID-19 pandemic has meant that the work has been paused, and the research done by the Wales Centre for Public Policy has not been able to progress as planned. In the meantime, people in Wales living with motor neurone disease and other neurological conditions continue to struggle to get home adaptations done quickly, and, as a result, some are living in homes that are neither safe nor suitable for them. And this is having a very direct impact on health and well-being, which may lead to isolation, lack of physical activity, disengagement from family and community, and unsafe environments contributing to accidents and falls.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n falch iawn, unwaith eto, o allu codi mater clefyd niwronau motor—MND—yn y Senedd, ac rwyf wedi cytuno i Mark Isherwood a Dai Lloyd gael munud o fy amser. 

Yn 2014, cynhaliais ddadl fer ar drafferthion pobl sy'n byw gyda chlefyd niwronau motor a galwais ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gydnabod rhai o'r heriau y mae pobl yng Nghymru yn eu hwynebu ac edrych ar ffyrdd y gall gefnogi'r gymuned MND yn well. Er bod rhywfaint o gynnydd wedi'i wneud, ac am hynny gwn fy mod i a phobl sy'n byw gydag MND yn ddiolchgar iawn, mae llawer mwy y gellir ac y dylid ei wneud o hyd. Mae'r ddadl heddiw'n ymwneud yn benodol â'r angen i gefnogi pobl sy'n byw gydag MND drwy addasu'r broses bresennol a'i gwneud yn haws iddynt hwy a'u teuluoedd addasu eu cartrefi mewn ymateb i fyw gyda'r cyflwr.

Yn ddiau, mae MND yn glefyd creulon. Mae'n un sy'n amddifadu pobl o'u hurddas ac yn anffodus, mae'n llythrennol yn ddedfryd o farwolaeth. Ac felly os llwydda'r ddadl hon i gyfleu un neges, y ffaith bod amser yn hollbwysig i bobl sy'n byw gydag MND yw honno. Credir bod MND yn lladd traean o bobl o fewn blwyddyn a mwy na hanner o fewn dwy flynedd, ac felly mae amser mor bwysig er mwyn sicrhau eu bod yn gallu byw mewn cartref diogel ac addas. Mae angen i addasiadau tai a'r broses o'u gwneud fod yn gyflymach, yn fwy cydgysylltiedig ac yn y pen draw mae angen cydnabod pwysigrwydd gweithredu cyflym i sicrhau bod pobl sy'n byw gydag MND yn gallu byw mor gyfforddus â phosibl. 

Nawr, yn 2018, cyhoeddodd Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru adroddiad pwysig iawn ar addasiadau tai yn fwy cyffredinol, a thynnodd yr adroddiad hwnnw sylw at nifer o faterion arwyddocaol. Yn wir, mae'r adroddiad hwnnw'n datgan bod boddhad defnyddwyr ag addasiadau tai yn celu system adweithiol ac anghyfartal hynod gymhleth nad yw'n cyflawni ar gyfer pawb y gallai fod ei hangen, ac nad yw cyrff cyhoeddus yn manteisio ar gyfleoedd i wella gwerth am arian. Mae'r adroddiad hefyd yn tynnu sylw at y ffaith bod y system bresennol ar gyfer cyflawni addasiadau yn atgyfnerthu anghydraddoldebau i rai pobl anabl a phobl hŷn, ac mae mynd i'r afael ag angen yn cael ei gymhlethu gan y gwahanol ffynonellau cyllid. Ac mae pobl sy'n byw gyda chlefyd niwronau motor yn sicr yn dod o dan ymbarél pobl sy'n byw gyda phroblemau niwrolegol cymhleth sy'n ei chael hi'n anodd addasu eu cartrefi'n ddigon cyflym. 

Nawr, yn dilyn adroddiad yr archwilydd cyffredinol, cynhaliodd y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus, a gadeirir gennyf fi, ymchwiliad byr i addasiadau tai er mwyn canolbwyntio ar rai o'r themâu a'r ffyrdd sefydledig y gallem helpu i gynorthwyo Llywodraeth Cymru i wella ei phrosesau. Yr hyn a ganfu'r pwyllgor oedd bod cynifer o ffynonellau cyllid a pholisïau ar gyfer addasiadau fel bod pobl anabl a phobl hŷn yn cael gwasanaeth o safon wahanol ac felly roedd angen i Lywodraeth Cymru osod safonau ar gyfer pob addasiad er mwyn sicrhau bod pobl anabl a phobl hŷn yn cael yr un safon o wasanaeth ni waeth ble maent yn byw, pwy yw perchennog eu heiddo, ac a ydynt yn berchen ar eu cartref eu hunain yn wir. 

Nawr, er clod i Lywodraeth Cymru, mae peth gwaith pwysig iawn wedi'i wneud i adolygu a gweithredu newidiadau i'r broses o gyflawni addasiadau, ac rwy'n llawn sylweddoli, ac mae'r Gymdeithas MND yn llawn sylweddoli, fod hon yn broses a fydd yn cymryd amser. Yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi sefydlu safonau gwasanaeth sy'n berthnasol i bob addasiad ni waeth beth fo'r math o ddeiliadaeth, y darparwr neu'r ffynhonnell ariannu, ac mae hynny wedi bod mewn grym ers mis Ebrill 2019. Yn ail, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ceisio adolygu'r polisi ar brofion modd a gweithredu newidiadau, a gwn fod peth gwaith wedi'i wneud gyda'r grŵp llywio ar addasu tai, a edrychai ar sut na ddylid cymhwyso profion modd ar gyfer addasiadau bach a chanolig llai cymhleth neu unigolion sy'n derbyn gofal lliniarol a gofal diwedd oes. Yna, gofynnwyd i Ganolfan Polisi Cyhoeddus Cymru ddatblygu hyn, gan gynnwys ymgysylltu'n sylweddol ag awdurdodau lleol. Fodd bynnag, mae'r pandemig COVID-19 presennol wedi golygu bod y gwaith wedi'i ohirio, ac nid yw'r ymchwil a wnaed gan Ganolfan Polisi Cyhoeddus Cymru wedi gallu symud ymlaen yn ôl y bwriad. Yn y cyfamser, mae pobl yng Nghymru sy'n byw gyda chlefyd niwronau motor a chyflyrau niwrolegol eraill yn parhau i'w chael hi'n anodd cael addasiadau wedi'u gwneud i'w cartrefi'n gyflym, ac o ganlyniad, mae rhai'n byw mewn cartrefi nad ydynt yn ddiogel nac yn addas ar eu cyfer. Ac mae hyn yn cael effaith uniongyrchol iawn ar iechyd a llesiant, a all arwain at unigedd, diffyg gweithgarwch corfforol, ymddieithrio oddi wrth deulu a chymuned, ac amgylcheddau anniogel sy'n cyfrannu at ddamweiniau a chwympiadau.

Now, I'm sure that the Minister and the Members present listening this evening understand that home adaptations can help mitigate these risks and ensure accessibility requirements are met. For people living with motor neurone disease, these adaptations range from smaller aids, such as very basic adaptations, grab rails or ramps, which are commonplace, to then more complex, expensive changes, such as wet rooms, stairlifts or even, these days, through-floor lifts.

Of course, schemes like the disabled facilities grants, which are administered by local authorities, can provide vital support to people who need to adapt their homes but can't afford to do so. However, the COVID-19 pandemic has meant that work has now been paused and the progress being made on this front pre-pandemic has been halted. Now, of course, I accept fully—it's understandable—that coronavirus has had an overwhelming impact on the Welsh Government's work, but the reality is that, in the meantime, there are people living across Wales with motor neurone disease who are living in properties that aren't equipped to help them live out their days comfortably and safely, and, of course, we are here talking about a terminal illness, so what makes a difference in those last weeks and months of life can make an incredible difference to sufferers and their families.

As the Welsh Government's vaccination programme continues to make strides across Wales, it's time for the Welsh Government to start returning to its work on these issues, so that the progress that was made before the pandemic is not lost. People living with MND do not have the time to wait. Due to the rapid progression of MND, people living with the condition don't have time to wait months on end for adaptations to be made. What's more, a lack of information about what help is available, what to expect from the process and who to talk to, can add difficulties for people with MND, their families and carers, when managing their often rapidly changing lives.

Three years ago, the Welsh Government published its neurological conditions delivery plan, with the aim of securing improvements in the delivery of health and social care. The references, however, to housing are vague in general, stating that people should be able to engage in the design of their own services. Unfortunately, there is nothing about the need for action in providing adaptations so that people can live with MND and other neurological conditions more comfortably. And that brings me to the heart of my short debate this evening, which supports the MND Association's adapt now Welsh homes for MND campaign, which had its Welsh launch earlier today, and I hope that Members of the Senedd will join me in supporting that campaign. That campaign calls for a clear commitment from the Welsh Government to increase funding for local authorities, so that more people with accessibility needs are supported to live as safely and independently as possible. At a local level, councils must put in place a fast-track non-means-tested process to help to ensure low-cost, high-impact adaptations are delivered in a timely way for people living with MND.

The social and economic benefits of investing in accessible housing are clear for all to see: Care and Repair Cymru, who deliver minor adaptations in Wales, estimate that, for every £1 spent, a cost saving of £7.50 is made for health and care, so that's something we should strive for. But, as well as adapting existing homes, more new homes need to be built with higher accessibly standards by default, and a minimum of 10 per cent must be built to higher wheelchair accessibility standards, as recommended by the Equality and Human Rights Commission in 2018.

As more people could live longer with neurological conditions—although, for MND, the future is still pretty bleak—we need to ensure that more homes are built ready to support those whose mobility is impaired. In 2019, Welsh Government put in place a housing adaptation service standard, setting out the level of service expected for the delivery and installation of the housing adaptation that service users, regardless of their location and tenure, can expect. 

I'm asking for the Welsh Government to develop appropriate outcome measures on good practice, to time the installations of adaptations, and to monitor and report outcomes against this delivery tool. That's a very complex way of saying that we're asking for the Welsh Government to review this so that adaptations are more accessible, more timely and that people living with end-of-life care, and towards the end of life, get the support they need to live life more comfortably. If the service standards are to have any meaning, then we need to be able to judge progress in securing what people need. People living with MND and their carers have enough to worry about without having to navigate complex systems to secure these adaptations, so we have a duty to deliver housing solutions quickly for those most in need.

In closing, I hope the Minister will accept the sincerity of today's debate and take back the message that time is critical and that action is desperately needed to support people living with MND in Wales. Let's do what we can to make sure that people living with this condition and, indeed, other neurological conditions, live the final months and weeks of their lives as comfortably and as safely as possible. Diolch.

Nawr, rwy'n siŵr bod y Gweinidog a'r Aelodau sy'n gwrando heno yn deall y gall addasiadau i'r cartref helpu i liniaru'r risgiau hyn a sicrhau bod gofynion hygyrchedd yn cael eu bodloni. I bobl sy'n byw gyda chlefyd niwronau motor, mae'r addasiadau hyn yn amrywio o gymhorthion llai, megis addasiadau sylfaenol iawn, rheiliau neu rampiau, sy'n gyffredin, i newidiadau drutach, mwy cymhleth, megis ystafelloedd gwlyb, lifftiau grisiau neu hyd yn oed lifftiau o un llawr i'r llall y dyddiau hyn.

Wrth gwrs, gall cynlluniau fel y grantiau cyfleusterau i'r anabl, sy'n cael eu gweinyddu gan awdurdodau lleol, roi cymorth hanfodol i bobl sydd angen addasu eu cartrefi ond na allant fforddio gwneud hynny. Fodd bynnag, mae'r pandemig COVID-19 wedi golygu bod gwaith bellach wedi'i ohirio ac mae'r cynnydd a wnaed ar hyn cyn y pandemig wedi'i atal. Nawr, wrth gwrs, rwy'n derbyn yn llawn—mae'n ddealladwy—fod coronafeirws wedi cael effaith aruthrol ar waith Llywodraeth Cymru, ond y realiti yw bod pobl ledled Cymru, yn y cyfamser, yn byw gyda chlefyd niwronau motor mewn eiddo nad yw wedi'i gyfarparu i'w helpu i fyw eu dyddiau olaf yn gyfforddus ac yn ddiogel, ac wrth gwrs, rydym yn sôn yma am salwch terfynol, felly gall yr hyn sy'n gwneud gwahaniaeth yn yr wythnosau a'r misoedd olaf o oes rhywun wneud gwahaniaeth anhygoel i ddioddefwyr a'u teuluoedd.

Wrth i raglen frechu Llywodraeth Cymru barhau i fynd o nerth i nerth ledled Cymru, mae'n bryd i Lywodraeth Cymru ddechrau dychwelyd at ei gwaith ar y materion hyn, fel na chollir y cynnydd a wnaed cyn y pandemig. Nid oes gan bobl sy'n byw gydag MND amser i aros. Oherwydd bod MND yn datblygu'n gyflym, nid oes gan bobl sy'n byw gyda'r cyflwr amser i aros misoedd diddiwedd i addasiadau gael eu gwneud. Yn fwy na hynny, gall diffyg gwybodaeth am ba gymorth sydd ar gael, beth i'w ddisgwyl o'r broses a phwy i siarad â hwy, ychwanegu anawsterau i bobl ag MND, eu teuluoedd a'u gofalwyr, wrth iddynt geisio rheoli eu bywydau sy'n aml yn newid yn gyflym.

Dair blynedd yn ôl, cyhoeddodd Llywodraeth Cymru ei chynllun cyflawni ar gyfer cyflyrau niwrolegol, gyda'r nod o sicrhau gwelliannau yn y ddarpariaeth iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Fodd bynnag, mae'r cyfeiriadau at dai yn amwys yn gyffredinol, ac yn dweud y dylai pobl allu cymryd rhan yn y gwaith o gynllunio eu gwasanaethau eu hunain. Yn anffodus, nid oes dim am yr angen i weithredu drwy ddarparu addasiadau fel y gall pobl fyw'n fwy cyfforddus gydag MND a chyflyrau niwrolegol eraill. A daw hynny â mi at wraidd fy nadl fer heno, sy'n cefnogi ymgyrch y Gymdeithas MND dros addasu cartrefi Cymru nawr ar gyfer MND, a gafodd ei lansio yng Nghymru yn gynharach heddiw, a gobeithio y bydd yr Aelodau o'r Senedd yn ymuno â mi i gefnogi'r ymgyrch honno. Mae'n galw am ymrwymiad clir gan Lywodraeth Cymru i gynyddu'r cyllid ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol, fel bod mwy o bobl sydd ag anghenion hygyrchedd yn cael eu cynorthwyo i fyw mor ddiogel ac annibynnol â phosibl. Ar lefel leol, rhaid i gynghorau sefydlu proses llwybr carlam nad yw'n seiliedig ar brawf modd i helpu i sicrhau bod addasiadau effeithiol, cost isel, yn cael eu darparu mewn modd amserol i bobl sy'n byw gydag MND.

Mae manteision cymdeithasol ac economaidd buddsoddi mewn tai hygyrch yn glir i bawb eu gweld: mae Gofal a Thrwsio Cymru, sy'n darparu mân addasiadau yng Nghymru, yn amcangyfrif, am bob £1 a werir, yr arbedir cost o £7.50 i iechyd a gofal, felly mae hynny'n rhywbeth y dylem anelu tuag ato. Ond yn ogystal ag addasu cartrefi sy'n bodoli eisoes, mae angen adeiladu mwy o gartrefi newydd gyda safonau hygyrchedd uwch yn ddiofyn, a rhaid adeiladu o leiaf 10 y cant sy'n cydymffurfio â safonau uwch o ran hygyrchedd cadeiriau olwyn, fel yr argymhellwyd gan y Comisiwn Cydraddoldeb a Hawliau Dynol yn 2018.

Gan y gallai mwy o bobl fyw'n hwy gyda chyflyrau niwrolegol—er bod y dyfodol yn dal i fod yn eithaf llwm o ran MND—mae angen inni sicrhau bod mwy o gartrefi'n cael eu hadeiladu'n barod i gefnogi'r rheini yr amharwyd ar eu symudedd. Yn 2019, sefydlodd Llywodraeth Cymru safon gwasanaeth addasu tai i nodi lefel y gwasanaeth y gall defnyddwyr gwasanaethau ei disgwyl ar gyfer cyflawni a gosod addasiadau tai, ni waeth beth fo'u lleoliad na'u math o ddeiliadaeth. 

Rwy'n gofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru ddatblygu mesurau o ganlyniadau priodol ar gyfer ymarfer da, i amseru'r broses o osod addasiadau, ac i fonitro ac adrodd ar ganlyniadau yn erbyn yr offeryn cyflawni hwn. Mae honno'n ffordd gymhleth iawn o ddweud ein bod yn gofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru adolygu hyn fel bod addasiadau'n fwy hygyrch, yn fwy amserol a bod pobl sy'n byw gyda gofal diwedd oes, a thuag at ddiwedd eu hoes, yn cael y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt i fyw bywyd yn fwy cyfforddus. Os yw'r safonau gwasanaeth i fod yn ystyrlon o gwbl, mae angen i ni allu barnu cynnydd o ran sicrhau'r hyn sydd ei angen ar bobl. Mae gan bobl sy'n byw gydag MND a'u gofalwyr ddigon i boeni amdano heb orfod llywio drwy systemau cymhleth i sicrhau'r addasiadau hyn, felly mae gennym ddyletswydd i ddarparu atebion tai yn gyflym i'r rhai sydd fwyaf o'u hangen.

Wrth gloi, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog yn derbyn didwylledd y ddadl heddiw ac yn cyfleu'r neges fod amser yn hollbwysig a bod taer angen gweithredu i gefnogi pobl sy'n byw gydag MND yng Nghymru. Gadewch inni wneud yr hyn a allwn i sicrhau bod pobl sy'n byw gyda'r cyflwr hwn, a chyflyrau niwrolegol eraill yn wir, yn byw misoedd ac wythnosau olaf eu bywydau mor gyfforddus ac mor ddiogel â phosibl. Diolch.

18:00

In addition to safe and accessible homes, carers are key to the maintenance of independence, dignity and quality of life for people living with MND. As stated by Carers Wales, unpaid carers are saving the Welsh Government £33 million every day of the pandemic, but this comes at high personal and economic cost. A report by the Motor Neurone Disease Association found that a third of MND carers spent more than 100 hours each week providing care, more than double the average working week. Forty-five per cent received no benefits at all, and the reduction or closure of many local services because of the pandemic has made a bad situation far worse. Unpaid carers are under increasing pressure to provide more care with less respite and formal support. We must therefore recognise and invest in third sector organisations providing key support services to unpaid carers, particularly during this difficult time. Once local authorities' duties are fully reinstated, it's important they're monitored to ensure they're supporting carers' rights by offering all unpaid carers an assessment to see what support packages might be available to them, including respite care. Thank you.

Yn ogystal â chartrefi diogel a hygyrch, mae gofalwyr yn allweddol i gynnal annibyniaeth, urddas ac ansawdd bywyd pobl sy'n byw gydag MND. Fel y nodwyd gan Gofalwyr Cymru, mae gofalwyr di-dâl yn arbed £33 miliwn i Lywodraeth Cymru bob dydd o'r pandemig, ond daw hyn ar gost bersonol ac economaidd uchel. Canfu adroddiad gan y Gymdeithas Clefyd Niwronau Motor fod traean o ofalwyr MND yn treulio mwy na 100 awr bob wythnos yn darparu gofal, mwy na dwbl yr wythnos waith gyfartalog. Ni chafodd 45 y cant ohonynt unrhyw fudd-daliadau o gwbl, ac mae lleihau neu gau llawer o wasanaethau lleol oherwydd y pandemig wedi gwneud sefyllfa wael yn llawer gwaeth. Mae gofalwyr di-dâl o dan bwysau cynyddol i ddarparu mwy o ofal gyda llai o seibiant a chymorth ffurfiol. Felly, rhaid inni gydnabod a buddsoddi mewn sefydliadau trydydd sector sy'n darparu gwasanaethau cymorth allweddol i ofalwyr di-dâl, yn enwedig yn ystod y cyfnod anodd hwn. Pan fydd dyletswyddau awdurdodau lleol wedi eu hadfer yn llawn, mae'n bwysig eu bod yn cael eu monitro i sicrhau eu bod yn cefnogi hawliau gofalwyr drwy gynnig asesiad i bob gofalwr di-dâl i weld pa becynnau cymorth a allai fod ar gael iddynt, gan gynnwys gofal seibiant. Diolch.

Can I commend Nick Ramsay and support wholeheartedly all that he's said about timely housing adaptations? In MND, time is of the essence. And I congratulate the Motor Neurone Disease Association on all its work, particularly in this context its Adapt Now campaign. 

A person living with MND needs a considerable amount of complex care generally, particularly when it comes to continuing healthcare. Part of that is the adaptations, but it's more than that as well. Continuing healthcare towards the end of life can make a real difference, but, for too many, the CHC system is not working. That was the result of a report from the Motor Neurone Disease Association in 2019. So, the challenges as regards staffing to enable the continuing healthcare package to succeed remain, as obviously so do the home adaptation timeliness. Diolch yn fawr. 

A gaf fi ganmol Nick Ramsay a chefnogi popeth y mae wedi'i ddweud am addasiadau tai amserol? Gydag MND, mae amser yn hanfodol. Ac rwy'n llongyfarch y Gymdeithas Clefyd Niwronau Motor ar ei holl waith, yn enwedig eu hymgyrch Adapt Now yn y cyd-destun hwn.

Yn gyffredinol, mae angen cryn dipyn o ofal cymhleth ar unigolyn sy'n byw gydag MND, yn enwedig o ran gofal iechyd parhaus. Rhan o hynny yw'r addasiadau, ond mae'n fwy na hynny hefyd. Gall gofal iechyd parhaus tuag at ddiwedd eu hoes wneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol, ond i ormod o bobl, nid yw'r system gofal iechyd parhaus yn gweithio. Dyna oedd canlyniad adroddiad gan y Gymdeithas Clefyd Niwronau Motor yn 2019. Felly, mae'r heriau mewn perthynas â staffio i alluogi'r pecyn gofal iechyd parhaus i lwyddo yn parhau, fel sy'n amlwg yn wir am amseroldeb addasiadau i'r cartref. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you. Can I call on the Minister for Housing and Local Government to reply to the debate? Julie James.

Diolch. A gaf fi alw ar y Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol i ymateb i'r ddadl? Julie James.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I also want to extend my thanks to Nick Ramsay, the Member for Monmouth, for introducing this very important debate this evening. As he has said, motor neurone disease is a devastating disease. For the most common form of motor neurone disease, life expectancy is usually two to five years from the onset of symptoms, so I entirely agree with him that we need to do something very swiftly to make people able to live with such a debilitating illness. At the present time, as he also said, motor neurone disease cannot be stopped or reversed, but therapies, equipment and medication can help manage symptoms alongside adaptations to people's homes to make them as safe and accessible as possible.

There are around 200 people in Wales living with MND at any one time. Thankfully, it's not a common disease, but, for people who receive a diagnosis of MND, of course, this is no comfort at all. People suffering from MND, their partners, families and carers rightly expect us to do our utmost to help them maintain their independence and live out their lives with dignity. While the focus today is on people with MND, there are other debilitating and degenerative conditions too, as Nick Ramsay also said. If we can improve the way the system works for people with MND, that will obviously benefit that wider group of people too. 

Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Hoffwn innau hefyd ddiolch i Nick Ramsay, yr Aelod dros Fynwy, am gyflwyno'r ddadl bwysig hon heno. Fel y dywedodd, mae clefyd niwronau motor yn glefyd dinistriol. Yn y math mwyaf cyffredin o glefyd niwronau motor, mae disgwyliad oes fel arfer yn ddwy i bum mlynedd o ddechrau'r symptomau, felly cytunaf yn llwyr ag ef fod angen inni wneud rhywbeth yn gyflym iawn i alluogi pobl i fyw gyda salwch mor wanychol. Fel y dywedodd hefyd, ar hyn o bryd ni ellir atal na gwrthdroi clefyd niwronau motor, ond gall therapïau, offer a meddyginiaeth helpu i reoli symptomau ochr yn ochr ag addasiadau i gartrefi pobl i'w gwneud mor ddiogel a hygyrch â phosibl.

Mae tua 200 o bobl yng Nghymru yn byw gydag MND ar unrhyw un adeg. Diolch byth, nid yw'n glefyd cyffredin, ond i bobl sy'n cael diagnosis o MND, wrth gwrs, nid yw hyn yn gysur o gwbl. Yn gwbl briodol, mae pobl sy'n dioddef o MND, eu partneriaid, eu teuluoedd a'u gofalwyr yn disgwyl i ni wneud ein gorau glas i'w helpu i gadw'n annibynnol a byw eu bywydau gydag urddas. Er bod y ffocws heddiw ar bobl ag MND, ceir cyflyrau gwanychol a dirywiol eraill hefyd, fel y dywedodd Nick Ramsay. Os gallwn wella'r ffordd y mae'r system yn gweithio i bobl ag MND, bydd hynny'n amlwg o fudd i'r grŵp ehangach hwnnw o bobl hefyd.

We already have a very comprehensive adaptations programme in Wales. They do involve local government, local housing associations, and care and repair agencies across Wales. Together, our total annual spend is around £60 million. All providers are required to adhere to the housing adaptations service standards that we issued in 2019. These include target waiting times for different kinds of adaptations. We are also now reporting annually on the performance of providers, and we will shortly be issuing the report for 2019-20, which will include comparisons with previous years for the first time. 

I do want to say at this point that I do understand, of course, that the pandemic has slowed this down, as Nick said. But, just be clear, we have been encouraging people where at all possible to continue with care and repair adaptations right through the pandemic. There have, of course, been areas where somebody is self-isolating or the person hasn't been happy with the work going on in their home, but ,just to be clear, we have been encouraging the work to continue all the way through. 

We continue to refine and improve the data monitoring. I've met myself with Care & Repair a number of times around what data we capture, and, from next year, we will have sufficient data to move to a dashboard, which will clearly highlight key trends, including waiting times. 

Again, as Nick said, adaptations are mostly small. The most significant group of adaptations by value is medium-sized adaptations. These include the most common adaptations that were also mentioned—stairlifts, walk-in showers, downstairs wet rooms and large ramps, or combinations of those types of adaptation. On average, a median adaptation takes around four months to be complete.

There are only a small number of very large adaptations each year. They involve substantial alterations to the property, including extensions that require planning permission. Not surprisingly, therefore, these take longer to complete due to the complexity, and the average is about 40 weeks. For many people, this is an acceptable timescale for major changes to their home, but I can fully understand, in the case of a person diagnosed with MND, 40 weeks can be a very long time indeed. 

Most medium and large adaptations are currently provided through the mandatory disabled facilities grant, which is administered, as Nick said, by local authorities from their capital funding settlement. In 2018-19, local authorities spent around £22 million on DFGs, providing improvements to just over 4,000 properties. In over 90 per cent of cases, the grant fully covered the cost of the works. DFGs in Wales are more generous than in the rest of the UK. In Wales, the upper limit that the local authority is required to fund is £36,000. This compares with £30,000 in other parts of the UK. If the adaptation costs more than £36,000, local authorities already have the discretion to provide a top-up from their own funds. In 2018-19, two thirds of them did so, spending over £2 million. Local authorities can also make top-ups from the Welsh Government Enable grant, which gives them an additional £4 million of flexibility each year.

The most complex and costly cases can be the most pressing and urgent, such as building an extension to enable someone with MND to continue to live independently. However, due to the large sums of money involved and the financial pressures on families in need, this can also be difficult and time-consuming to resolve. As Nick rightly said, this is against what we're all trying to achieve. So, because of that, I amended the guidance for the integrated care fund capital programme for 2021-22, which I issued in January. The regional partnership boards are now able to use their discretion to meet the additional costs of adaptations that cost more than £36,000.

I will be monitoring how much use is made of this flexibility as we go forward but, as we all know, DFGs don't always run as smoothly as they might, and this has been a matter of ongoing concern. For example, we know the means test can lead to delays, even though only 307 out of over 4,000 DFGs in 2018-19 led to the householder making any contribution. This begs the question whether there is justification for conducting a means test in the vast majority of cases. So, I have recently received the research that I commissioned on the means test and disabled facilities grant that Nick also mentioned. The research will be published very shortly, and I hope to make an announcement in the very near future about steps we can take as a result of that research to address that issue. 

Planning is also said to be another cause of delay, but planning permission is only required for the largest adaptations that are not covered by permitted development rights. For the majority of large adaptations, planning should normally be granted within eight weeks, but we know it can take longer and some councils perform better than others. So, if people who are suffering from NMD are currently experiencing particular problems with planning, I would really welcome further information on that. So, Nick, if you do have any information on cases of that sort, please do let me know immediately and we will see whether we can shift them for the specific cases in point. The guidance, you're right, to local authorities on DFGs has not been updated for some time, and I will consult on revised guidance shortly to ensure it deals with the issues that you've raised for the future, going forward.

Can I just finish by saying that I am very grateful indeed to Nick for bringing, once again, this important subject to the floor of the Senedd? I would like to send my best wishes to all the people in Wales who have motor neurone disease and to their families, and to say that we are very grateful to have had this raised this evening, and we fully intend to make sure that people with MND can live out their lives in comfort and security with the best adaptation that we can manage. So, diolch yn fawr iawn. 

Mae gennym eisoes raglen addasiadau gynhwysfawr iawn yng Nghymru. Mae'n cynnwys llywodraeth leol, cymdeithasau tai lleol, ac asiantaethau gofal a thrwsio ledled Cymru. Gyda'i gilydd, cyfanswm ein gwariant blynyddol yw tua £60 miliwn. Mae'n ofynnol i bob darparwr gadw at safonau gwasanaeth addasiadau tai a gyhoeddwyd gennym yn 2019. Mae'r rhain yn cynnwys amseroedd aros targed ar gyfer gwahanol fathau o addasiadau. Rydym bellach yn adrodd yn flynyddol ar berfformiad darparwyr hefyd, a chyn bo hir byddwn yn cyhoeddi'r adroddiad ar gyfer 2019-20, a fydd yn cynnwys cymariaethau â blynyddoedd blaenorol am y tro cyntaf. 

Rwyf am ddweud ar y pwynt hwn fy mod yn deall, wrth gwrs, fod y pandemig wedi arafu hyn, fel y dywedodd Nick. Ond i fod yn glir, rydym wedi bod yn annog pobl lle bo hynny'n bosibl o gwbl i barhau ag addasiadau gofal ac atgyweirio drwy gydol y pandemig. Wrth gwrs, cafwyd mannau lle mae rhywun yn hunanynysu neu os nad yw'r unigolyn wedi bod yn hapus i waith ddigwydd yn ei gartref, ond i fod yn glir, rydym wedi bod yn annog y gwaith i barhau yr holl ffordd drwodd. 

Rydym yn parhau i fireinio a gwella'r gwaith o fonitro data. Rwyf wedi cyfarfod â Gofal a Thrwsio yn bersonol nifer o weithiau i drafod pa ddata rydym yn ei gasglu, ac o'r flwyddyn nesaf ymlaen, bydd gennym ddigon o ddata i symud at ddangosfwrdd, a fydd yn amlygu tueddiadau allweddol yn glir, gan gynnwys amseroedd aros. 

Unwaith eto, fel y dywedodd Nick, mae addasiadau'n fach ar y cyfan. Y grŵp mwyaf sylweddol o addasiadau yn ôl eu gwerth yw addasiadau canolig eu maint. Mae'r rhain yn cynnwys yr addasiadau mwyaf cyffredin a grybwyllwyd hefyd—lifftiau grisiau, cawodydd cerdded i mewn, ystafelloedd gwlyb ar y llawr isaf a rampiau mawr, neu gyfuniadau o'r mathau hynny o addasiadau. Ar gyfartaledd, mae addasiad canolig yn cymryd tua phedwar mis i'w gwblhau.

Dim ond nifer fach o addasiadau mawr iawn a wneir bob blwyddyn. Maent yn cynnwys newidiadau sylweddol i'r eiddo, gan gynnwys estyniadau y mae angen caniatâd cynllunio ar eu cyfer. Nid yw'n syndod, felly, fod y rhain yn cymryd mwy o amser i'w cwblhau oherwydd y cymhlethdod, a'r cyfartaledd yw tua 40 wythnos. I lawer o bobl, mae hon yn amserlen dderbyniol ar gyfer newidiadau mawr i'w cartref, ond gallaf ddeall yn iawn, yn achos unigolyn sydd wedi cael diagnosis o MND, y gall 40 wythnos fod yn amser hir iawn wir. 

Darperir y rhan fwyaf o addasiadau canolig a mawr ar hyn o bryd drwy'r grant cyfleusterau i'r anabl gorfodol, a weinyddir, fel y dywedodd Nick, gan awdurdodau lleol o'u setliad cyllid cyfalaf. Yn 2018-19, gwariodd awdurdodau lleol tua £22 miliwn ar grantiau cyfleusterau i'r anabl, gan ddarparu gwelliannau i ychydig dros 4,000 eiddo. Mewn dros 90 y cant o'r achosion, roedd y grant yn talu cost y gwaith yn llawn. Mae grantiau cyfleusterau i'r anabl yng Nghymru yn fwy hael nag yng ngweddill y DU. Yng Nghymru, y terfyn uchaf y mae'n ofynnol i'r awdurdod lleol ei ariannu yw £36,000. Mae hyn yn cymharu â £30,000 mewn rhannau eraill o'r DU. Os yw'r addasiad yn costio mwy na £36,000, mae gan awdurdodau lleol ddisgresiwn eisoes i ddarparu arian ychwanegol o'u harian eu hunain. Yn 2018-19, gwnaeth dwy ran o dair ohonynt hynny, gan wario dros £2 filiwn. Gall awdurdodau lleol wneud taliadau ychwanegol hefyd o grant Hwyluso Llywodraeth Cymru, sy'n rhoi £4 miliwn ychwanegol o hyblygrwydd iddynt bob blwyddyn.

Mae'n bosibl mai'r achosion mwyaf cymhleth a chostus fydd y rhai mwyaf dwys, lle ceir y brys mwyaf, megis adeiladu estyniad i alluogi rhywun ag MND i barhau i fyw'n annibynnol. Fodd bynnag, oherwydd y symiau mawr o arian sydd ynghlwm wrth hynny a'r pwysau ariannol ar deuluoedd mewn angen, gall yr achosion hyn fod yn anodd hefyd a chymryd llawer o amser i'w datrys. Fel y dywedodd Nick yn gywir, mae hyn yn erbyn yr hyn rydym i gyd yn ceisio'i gyflawni. Felly, oherwydd hynny, diwygiais ganllawiau rhaglen gyfalaf y gronfa gofal integredig ar gyfer 2021-22 a gyhoeddais ym mis Ionawr. Bellach, gall y byrddau partneriaeth rhanbarthol ddefnyddio'u disgresiwn i dalu costau ychwanegol addasiadau sy'n costio mwy na £36,000.

Byddaf yn monitro faint o ddefnydd a wneir o'r hyblygrwydd hwn wrth i ni symud ymlaen ond fel y gŵyr pawb ohonom, nid yw grantiau cyfleusterau i'r anabl bob amser yn rhedeg mor llyfn ag y gallent, ac mae hyn wedi bod yn destun pryder parhaus. Er enghraifft, gwyddom y gall y prawf modd arwain at oedi, er mai dim ond 307 o dros 4,000 o grantiau cyfleusterau i'r anabl yn 2018-19 a arweiniodd at ddeiliaid tai yn gwneud unrhyw gyfraniad. Mae hyn yn codi cwestiwn ynglŷn ag a oes cyfiawnhad dros gynnal prawf modd yn y mwyafrif llethol o achosion. Felly, mae'r ymchwil a gomisiynais wedi dod i law yn ddiweddar ar y prawf modd a'r grant cyfleusterau i'r anabl y soniodd Nick amdano. Bydd yr ymchwil yn cael ei chyhoeddi'n fuan iawn, ac rwy'n gobeithio gwneud cyhoeddiad yn y dyfodol agos iawn am y camau y gallwn eu cymryd o ganlyniad i'r ymchwil i fynd i'r afael â'r mater hwnnw. 

Dywedir bod cynllunio hefyd yn peri oedi, ond dim ond ar gyfer yr addasiadau mwyaf nad ydynt yn dod o dan hawliau datblygu a ganiateir y bydd angen caniatâd cynllunio. Ar gyfer y rhan fwyaf o addasiadau mawr, dylid rhoi caniatâd cynllunio fel arfer o fewn wyth wythnos, ond gwyddom y gall gymryd mwy o amser ac mae rhai cynghorau'n perfformio'n well nag eraill. Felly, os yw pobl sy'n dioddef o MND yn cael problemau penodol gyda chynllunio ar hyn o bryd, byddwn yn croesawu rhagor o wybodaeth am hynny. Felly, Nick, os oes gennych unrhyw wybodaeth am achosion o'r fath, rhowch wybod imi ar unwaith i ni gael gweld a allwn eu symud yn eu blaenau ar gyfer yr achosion penodol hynny. Rydych yn llygad eich lle, nid yw'r canllawiau i awdurdodau lleol ar grantiau cyfleusterau i'r anabl wedi'u diweddaru ers peth amser, a byddaf yn ymgynghori ar ganllawiau diwygiedig cyn bo hir i sicrhau eu bod yn ymdrin â'r materion rydych wedi'u codi ar gyfer y dyfodol.

A gaf fi orffen drwy ddweud fy mod yn hynod ddiolchgar i Nick am ddod â'r pwnc pwysig hwn, unwaith eto, i lawr y Senedd? Hoffwn anfon fy nymuniadau gorau at yr holl bobl yng Nghymru sydd â chlefyd niwronau motor ac at eu teuluoedd, a dweud ein bod yn ddiolchgar iawn fod hyn wedi'i godi heno, ac rydym yn llawn fwriadu sicrhau bod pobl ag MND yn gallu byw gweddill eu bywydau mewn cysur a diogelwch gyda'r addasiad gorau y gallwn ei wneud. Felly, diolch yn fawr iawn. 

18:10

Thank you very much. Thank you, Minister. That brings today's proceedings to a close. Thank you. 

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Diolch, Weinidog. Daw hynny â thrafodion heddiw i ben. Diolch.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 18:10.

The meeting ended at 18:10.