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Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol

Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee


Aelodau'r Pwyllgor a oedd yn bresennol

Committee Members in Attendance

Carwyn Jones AM
Dai Lloyd AM
David Melding AM Yn dirprwyo ar ran Suzy Davies
Substitute for Suzy Davies
Dawn Bowden AM
Mick Antoniw AM Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor
Committee Chair

Swyddogion y Senedd a oedd yn bresennol

Senedd Officials in Attendance

Alex Hadley Dirprwy Glerc
Deputy Clerk
Ben Harris Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol
Legal Adviser
Lucy Morgan Ymchwilydd
P Gareth Williams Clerc
Rhiannon Lewis Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol
Legal Adviser
Stephen Davies Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol
Legal Adviser

Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Lle mae cyfranwyr wedi darparu cywiriadau i’w tystiolaeth, nodir y rheini yn y trawsgrifiad.

The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. Where contributors have supplied corrections to their evidence, these are noted in the transcript.

Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 14:30.

The meeting began at 14:30.

1. Cyflwyniad, ymddiheuriadau, dirprwyon a datganiadau o fuddiant
1. Introduction, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest

This is a meeting of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee. I'll go on to item 1 and the usual housekeeping rules, of course, apply. I've had apologies from Suzy Davies, and David Melding is again a welcome substitute. Are there any declarations of interest? There aren't any.

2. Offerynnau sy’n cynnwys materion i gyflwyno adroddiad arnynt i'r Cynulliad o dan Reol Sefydlog 21.2 neu 21.3 - trafodwyd yn flaenorol
2. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Assembly under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3 - previously considered

Then we move straight on to item 2, instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Assembly under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. We have in front of us the National Health Service (Welsh Language in Primary Care Services) (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) Regulations 2019. You have the report, you have the Government response. This is a matter, of course, that has previously been discussed here and has also come up at other committees. The response has been received and the regulations are subject to a motion to annul tabled by Dai Lloyd and scheduled for debate on 19 June 2019. Are there any comments?

Yes. Just to add to what you said, Chair, the committee did raise a technical point and two merits points. The technical point noted some inconsistency in the citation of the enabling powers in the preamble to the regulations, and the Welsh Government accepts that point and proposes to rectify it by means of a correction slip. The first merits point noted that the regulations would impose a light-touch Welsh language regime on providers of primary care services in Wales, and the Welsh Government response is that this is because they are the first duties relating to Welsh language to apply to independent primary care providers. The second merits point noted that these Welsh language obligations will take effect on 30 May and apply to all contracts, not just those entered into after 30 May. The Welsh Government is satisfied from consultation with the relevant bodies that those bodies are aware that the regulations apply to contracts entered into before and after the regulations come into force. 

Of course, we have discussed the issue about the timing of this. Are there any other comments beyond this? It will come up, obviously, in Plenary on 19 June. Dai Lloyd will obviously move his motion, and I will be speaking on the matter as well. I intend to raise the concerning constitutional issues around this. Any other comments? If not, noted. 

3. Papurau i’w nodi
3. Papers to note

We move on to item 3. A letter from the Electoral Commission: Senedd and Elections (Wales) Bill. It's a letter dated 24 May 2019, just providing useful information about the Scottish system, the system of assessors, although the letter does conclude that it doesn't think the distinction was of great consequence in terms of electoral registration, et cetera. But it's there for information. It's information that we specifically requested. Note that?

Item 3.2, a letter from the Counsel General with regard to section 109 Orders, and it's, again, a letter to be noted. It is dated 9 April. It wasn't received until 5 June. There was an administrative error that led to that, we understand. Any comments on that? Noted. 

Item 3.3, a letter from the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services: Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill. Members are invited to note the letter from the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services concerning the November 2018 survey on public awareness and opinion regarding the proposed Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill. This is the Bill that we took evidence from the Deputy Minister on the other week, so we have the full report there, which is for information. Just note it? Okay.

4. Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.42 i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o'r cyfarfod
4. Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the meeting


bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42(vi).


that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi).

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Then on to item 4. So, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi), I invite the committee to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. Do Members agree? Okay, we now move into private session. 

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 14:34.

Motion agreed.

The public part of the meeting ended at 14:34.

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