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Y Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol

Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee


Aelodau'r Pwyllgor a oedd yn bresennol

Committee Members in Attendance

Dai Lloyd AM
David Melding AM
Mandy Jones AM
Mick Antoniw AM Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor
Committee Chair

Swyddogion Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru a oedd yn bresennol

National Assembly for Wales Officials in Attendance

Alys Thomas Ymchwilydd
Gareth Howells Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol
Legal Adviser
P Gareth Williams Clerc
Ruth Hatton Dirprwy Glerc
Deputy Clerk
Sarah Sargent Ail Glerc
Second Clerk

Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Lle mae cyfranwyr wedi darparu cywiriadau i’w tystiolaeth, nodir y rheini yn y trawsgrifiad.

The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. Where contributors have supplied corrections to their evidence, these are noted in the transcript.

Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 14:30.

The meeting began at 14:30.

1. Cyflwyniad, ymddiheuriadau, dirprwyon a datgan buddiannau
1. Introduction, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest

Welcome to this meeting of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee, Monday 21 May 2018. To start with, the usual housekeeping rules apply. I've just asked now—there are no apologies; everyone's here. So, it's just a question of whether there are any declarations of interest. There don't seem to be any declarations of interest, so we move straight on to the agenda.

2. Offerynnau nad ydynt yn cynnwys materion i gyflwyno adroddiad arnynt o dan Reol Sefydlog 21.2 na 21.3
2. Instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3

Item 2 of the agenda, instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2, 21.3 or 21.7. We have the negative resolution instruments, starting with the Special Guardianship (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2018, and the code of practice on the exercise of social services functions in relation to special guardianship orders. Are there any issues to be raised on those? If there are no issues, then we note that, and the report can be laid before the Assembly.

3. Offerynnau sy'n cynnwys materion i gyflwyno adroddiad arnynt i’r Cynulliad o dan Reol Sefydlog 21.2 neu 21.3 neu 21.7
3. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Assembly under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3 or 21.7

We move on to item 3, then, the instruments that do raise issues to be reported under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. And we're onto the Firefighters’ Pension Scheme (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2018, and you have before you the regulations, the explanatory memorandum, and the report. These regulations amend the Firefighters’ Pension Scheme (Wales) Regulations 2015, by making a number of technical amendments. The 2015 regulations established a scheme for the payment of pensions and other benefits to firefighters in Wales from 1 April 2015. Are there any issues to be raised?

There are two statutory instruments here around the firefighters' pension schemes. They both make retrospective effect, and usually retrospective effect might be something that raises a technical point. Here, it's only a merits point, because the enabling powers, enabling the Welsh Ministers to make these recommendations, expressly allow for retrospective provision to be made.

And these provisions will go back to 2015, in terms of—

Yes, and in some cases 2006, subsequent to a Supreme Court case, which said there's an unfairness in a Northern Ireland pension scheme. The same unfairness arises in the Welsh scheme here, and therefore that unfairness is being remedied retrospectively.

And does this also then incorporate the Firefighters’ Pension Schemes and Compensation Scheme (Wales) (Amendment) Order 2018?

Yes, the same issues arise in both.

Okay. Are there any issues to be raised on that? No. In which case, we can note that, and that can be laid.

4. Papurau i’w nodi
4. Papers to note

Item 4, papers to note. These are letters to the House of Commons Procedure Committee, and letters to the Secretary of State for Wales. These are procedural matters, arising from reports that we've done, which you're previously aware of. So, I think it's just a question of noting those letters, unless there are any issues to be raised.

5. Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.42 i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o’r cyfarfod
5. Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the meeting


bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42(vi).


that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi).

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

In which case we move on to item 5, which is the motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to meet in private. Is that agreed? Okay, move into private session.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 14:33.

Motion agreed.

The public part of the meeting ended at 14:33.

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