Y Pwyllgor Deddfwriaeth, Cyfiawnder a’r Cyfansoddiad

Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee


Aelodau'r Pwyllgor a oedd yn bresennol

Committee Members in Attendance

Alun Davies MS
Huw Irranca-Davies MS Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor
Committee Chair
James Evans MS
Rhys ab Owen MS

Swyddogion y Senedd a oedd yn bresennol

Senedd Officials in Attendance

Gareth Howells Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol
Legal Adviser
Gerallt Roberts Ail Glerc
Second Clerk
P Gareth Williams Clerc
Sarah Sargent Ail Glerc
Second Clerk
Sian Giddins Dirprwy Glerc
Deputy Clerk

Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Lle mae cyfranwyr wedi darparu cywiriadau i’w tystiolaeth, nodir y rheini yn y trawsgrifiad.

The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. Where contributors have supplied corrections to their evidence, these are noted in the transcript.

Cyfarfu’r pwyllgor yn y Senedd.

Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 11:30.

The committee met in the Senedd.

The meeting began at 11:30.

1. Cyflwyniad, ymddiheuriadau, dirprwyon a datgan buddiannau
1. Introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest

Bore da. Croeso, bawb. Welcome to this meeting of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. Could I now formally welcome James Evans as a permanent Member of this committee? You're very welcome indeed, James. We look forward to you getting to know this committee well and the matters that we deal with that do carry such a weight here within the Senedd and such importance. And can we also, as well, just formally put on record now our thanks, as well, to your predecessor, Peter Fox, who made such a great contribution to this committee?

As just a reminder for everybody, we're being broadcast live on Senedd.tv, and the Record of Proceedings will be published as normal after the meeting. We have no apologies; we have brilliant attendance by our committee colleagues on this meeting, as always. If we do have a fire alarm today—there aren't any planned—we'll just follow the staff and be directed to the emergency exits. If we can make sure—and I've just done it with mine—that our mobiles are switched to silent. We're operating in both the Welsh and English languages this morning. There's no need to operate your mikes, because that will be done for you.

2. Offerynnau nad ydynt yn cynnwys unrhyw faterion i’w codi o dan Reol Sefydlog 21.2 neu 21.3
2. Instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3

That brings us on to the first substantive item today, which is item 2. As per normal, it's instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. We've got one. It's paper No. 1—one statutory instrument with a clear report. This is a made negative resolution, SL(6)202, the Building (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2022. This instrument applies the new metric for the measurement of energy efficiency in the form of a target primary energy rate to new buildings, and it introduces new energy efficiency ratings to new buildings and a new regulation for on-site electricity generation and in relation to overheating. Gareth—I'm turning to our lawyers—we've got no points for reporting on this one, so if we're happy to note that. We are.

3. Offerynnau sy'n codi materion i gyflwyno adroddiad arnynt i'r Senedd o dan Reol Sefydlog 21.2 neu 21.3
3. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3

That takes us on to item No. 3, which, as per normal, is instruments that do raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. We have one item under this, which is item 3.1. It's a made negative resolution instrument, SL(6)203, the Non-Domestic Rating (Amendment of Definition of Domestic Property) (Wales) Order 2022. We have a draft report as well in your papers today. This Order amends the Local Government Finance Act 1988 to increase the number of days a self-catering property must be intended to be made available to let, have been available to let, and actually has been let within any 12-month period in order to be classified then as non-domestic within the local taxation system. Such properties are liable for non-domestic rates—the NDRs. This is something, obviously, that's been the subject of a lot of policy interest, but what we do is we make sure that it's fit for purpose in terms of legislation and so on. Gareth, you've identified one merits point for reporting on this.

Diolch. The draft report notes there was a wide response to the consultation. The Welsh Government says the responses were generally supportive of an increase in the number of letting days, but there was clear opposition from those more directly affected—that is, self-catering property owners and their representative bodies.

Thank you very much, Gareth. Members, are we happy to note that? We don't require a Welsh Government report on that, so, from our perspective, that is done and dusted there, for the purposes of legislation and propriety of the legislation.

4. Cytundeb cysylltiadau rhyngsefydliadol
4. Inter-institutional relations agreement

We'll move on to item No. 4, then, which are the inter-institutional relations agreements. Now, under this, item 4.1, we have a letter from the Counsel General informing the committee that he intends to give consent for the UK Government to make the European Parliamentary Elections (Amendment and Revocation) (United Kingdom and Gibraltar) (EU Exit) Regulations 2022. So, it's just to note for now, unless any colleagues have any comments on that. No. Happy to note it. Okay. We can return to any of these, of course, in private session, if need be, as well.

Item 4.2, then, is the written statement by the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd, on the attendance at the inter-governmental meeting of 16 May. So, the Trefnydd informs the Senedd there of discussions that took place at that inter-ministerial group. Again, anything to raise, or are we happy to note? We're happy to note that.

We go on to item 4.3, where we have a written statement by the Minister for Climate Change informing the Senedd that the Minister has given consent for the UK Government to make the internal market Act (exclusions from market access principles: single-use plastic) regulations 2022. We may well want to return to this in our discussions when we go into private, because it does carry some interesting implications, but unless anybody's got anything to note now, we'll note it, thank you, for the record.

Item 4.4: we have letters from the Minister for Economy informing the committee and the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee that he has given consent for the UK Government to make the Official Controls (Extension of Transitional Periods) (Amendment) Regulations 2022. There are two letters there, from 10 June. Are we happy to note? We are.

Item 4.5, then: we have correspondence from the Minister for Health and Social Services informing the committee that she and the Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Well-being will be be attending a meeting of the UK health Ministers inter-ministerial group on 16 June 2022. I don't know if colleagues have anything to note on this at the moment, but it's good to see that we are being kept informed, and thereby the Senedd is being kept informed of these meetings as well.

5. Papurau i’w nodi
5. Papers to note

Okay, so we'll go on, then—rattling through the business here in public session today at the moment—to item No. 5. We have several papers to note. First of all, under item 5.1, we have a response from the Minister of State to the chair of the Constitution Committee regarding the committee's report, 'Revision of the Cabinet Manual'. It's in your pack there. It's quite a short letter. We might want to return to it in private session, so we'll note it for now.

Item 5.2: we have a response from the First Minister to the committee's invitation to attend a committee meeting in the autumn term to discuss the Welsh Government's programme and priorities for legislating in Wales. This is definitely something I would suggest that we do return to in private. It's been the subject of ongoing discussions and correspondence. We may be getting somewhere, so we'll return to that in private session.

6. Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.42 i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod
6. Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting


bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42(vi).


that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi).

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Well, colleagues, unless there is anything else, and to the great disappointment of the crowds who are watching this on our Senedd.tv there, under Standing Order 17.42, can I ask if you're happy to exclude the public for the remainder of the meeting so that we can go into private? And we are. We'll go into private, and we'll wait for our clerking team to tell us that we are.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 11:38.

Motion agreed.

The public part of the meeting ended at 11:38.