Y Pwyllgor Deddfwriaeth, Cyfiawnder a’r Cyfansoddiad

Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee

07/03/2022

Aelodau'r Pwyllgor a oedd yn bresennol

Committee Members in Attendance

Alun Davies MS
Huw Irranca-Davies MS Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor
Committee Chair
Peter Fox MS
Rhys ab Owen MS

Swyddogion y Senedd a oedd yn bresennol

Senedd Officials in Attendance

Claire Fiddes Dirprwy Glerc
Deputy Clerk
Gerallt Roberts Ail Glerc
Second Clerk
P Gareth Williams Clerc
Clerk
Sarah Sargent Ail Glerc
Second Clerk
Stephen Davies Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol
Legal Adviser

Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Lle mae cyfranwyr wedi darparu cywiriadau i’w tystiolaeth, nodir y rheini yn y trawsgrifiad.

The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. Where contributors have supplied corrections to their evidence, these are noted in the transcript.

Cyfarfu’r pwyllgor yn y Senedd a thrwy gynhadledd fideo.

Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 14:00.

The committee met in the Senedd and by video-conference.

The meeting began at 14:00.

1. Cyflwyniad, ymddiheuriadau, dirprwyon a datgan buddiannau
1. Introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest

Prynhawn da. Croeso i chi i gyd. Croeso i'r pwyllgor y prynhawn yma.

Good afternoon. Welcome to you all. Welcome to the committee this afternoon.

Welcome to this afternoon's session of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. We are now in public session and this session today is operating in hybrid mode. So, we have no apologies; all our committee members are here. We're back in the committee chamber here with three colleagues, and Peter is with us there on the screen as well. So, thanks to everybody for their attendance. The meeting is being broadcast as usual, live on Senedd.tv, and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. This is the first time I've had to say this for about two years, but, in the event of a fire alarm, Members should leave the room by the marked fire exits and follow the instructions from ushers and staff, who are all up to speed on the drills and where we need to head. There is no test forecast for today, so if we do have one it is a real emergency. Peter, I'm afraid you'll have to make your own way. [Laughter.]

Just before we begin our full agenda today, just to note that we've had an interesting morning and lunch-time meeting with the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee who visited the Senedd today, and they were very welcome. They've met with us and another committee, but also with the Llywydd, the Counsel General and others. I think they've had an interesting morning. But, simply to reflect and to put on record, from our committee, from all of us, how useful it is to meet with parliamentary colleagues from UK Parliament, from Scotland and Northern Ireland as well, and we intend to keep that level of engagement up. And thank you all for your engagement over the last couple of hours as well.

2. Fframweithiau cyffredin
2. Common frameworks

So, we'll move on to business in front of us today. It's not an extensive range of business, and some of this we'll want to discuss in private subsequently. But, first of all, if we deal as we normally do first of all with common frameworks. We have a letter from the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution from 2 March, in which he responds to questions we'd put to him in our letter of 15 February. So, that's in everybody's packs. We've also got a discussion later on on the wider common frameworks programme under item No. 8, so we might want to discuss it under that in private. Are we happy to note that? We are. Thank you. Okay.

That takes us on to item 2.1, the provisional agricultural support common framework, and again I draw your attention to a letter from the Chair of the Common Frameworks Scrutiny Committee of 9 February 2022—the Chair of the House of Lords Common Frameworks Scrutiny Committee—to the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. The letter outlines the concerns the committee has in relation to the framework and requests further points of clarification. So, if we're happy to note that we can return to that later. We are.

Item 2.2, the provisional fisheries management and support common framework. So, I draw your attention to two letters: one from the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd, of 17 February 2022, and the other is a letter from the Chair of the Common Frameworks Scrutiny Committee of 2 March, again requesting further clarity on the framework in some areas. So, if we're happy to note that we can return to that later. Okay, thank you.

On to item 2.3, provisional ozone depleting substances and fluorinated greenhouse gases common framework. We have a letter from the Minister for Climate Change of 21 February 2022, confirming that the framework outline agreement and concordat for ODS, ozone depleting substances, and fluorinated greenhouse gases, F-gases, has now been published. So, if you're happy to note, we can return to any points that arise from it.

Item 2.4, the provisional animal health common framework. We have a letter to note from the Chair of the House of Lords Common Frameworks Scrutiny Committee to the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs regarding the animal health and welfare provisions framework, and again it outlines the concerns that committee has in relation to the framework and requests areas of clarification. And I think we're happy to note that. Yes, okay.

14:05
3. Cytundeb cysylltiadau rhyngsefydliadol
3. Inter-institutional relations agreement

And this brings us then to item number 3, inter-institutional relations agreement. And, in respect of that, we have a letter from the Minister for Rural Affairs, North Wales, and Trefnydd of 2 March, confirming that she has granted approval to the UK Government to make a new Order that makes changes to the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board Order 2008. Are we happy to note? We are. Okay. Thank you. There are no items from committee clerking colleagues to raise at that point on these, no? We can return to them in private. Thank you.

4. Papurau i'w nodi
4. Papers to note

If we turn to item 4 then, which are papers to note. Now, there's a string of papers here. If, for the public record, I list them and note them, but if Members want to raise anything, just flag it with me.

Under 4.1, we have correspondence from the Minister for Health and Social Services in respect of the supplementary legislative consent memorandums, memorandums No. 2 and No. 3, on the Health and Care Bill. And, again, we can defer discussion to the private session on that.

We have correspondence under 4.2 from the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution in respect of the Welsh Government's draft budget 2022-23, and the response to the committee's recommendations on that budget.

Item 4.3, we have correspondence from the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd to the Llywydd on the legislative consent memorandum on the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill. To note in the correspondence there, where the Minister sought to suspend Standing Orders to allow a debate—as we know from a previous session in the Plenary in the Senedd—on the legislative consent memorandum on the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill to take place at short notice. That was the debate that took place last Tuesday.

We also have correspondence from the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution in respect of the legislative consent memorandums and future workload. I'm sure this is something we'll want to come to back to in private session. He responds to the future work planning and the UK Government's forthcoming legislative programme. I'm sure there will be some discussions we'll want to have on that. 

And then, item 4.5, correspondence from the Chief Executive and Clerk of the Senedd in respect of appropriate terminology to describe people from minority ethnic backgrounds. This is quite a helpful piece of correspondence there, but again, we can return to this in private session. 

Item 4.6, correspondence from the Minister for Education and the Welsh Language in respect of the Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill, confirming that consent has been received in respect of section 128 of that Bill. And just for the record, the committee's report on the Bill was laid last week, and the debate on the general principles is scheduled for 15 March. 

Item 4.7, we have correspondence from the Minister for Finance and Local Government in respect of the report on the supplementary legislative consent memorandum, memorandum No. 2, on the Subsidy Control Bill.

And item 4.8, correspondence from the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee in respect of the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020. So, that's from the Convener of the Scottish Parliament's relevant committee on this, looking at their report into the inquiry on the UK internal market—something we've been looking at as a committee as well of course, so that's of interest. 

If there are no points to raise on those—. No. Then, we will note all of those and return to them in private session. 

5. Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.42 i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod
5. Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting

Cynnig:

bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42(vi).

Motion:

that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi).

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

And that is, depending on Members' will, the conclusion of the public session today. So, we can go into private. So, can I ask, under Standing Order 17.42, if we are agreed to resolve to exclude the public from the rest of the meeting? And we are. Okay. That's brilliant. We'll move into private session, and we'll wait for our clerking team to let us know when we're in private.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.

Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 14:09.

Motion agreed.

The public part of the meeting ended at 14:09.