Y Cyfarfod Llawn - Y Bumed Senedd

Plenary - Fifth Senedd

19/06/2019

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair. 

The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

1. Cwestiynau i Weinidog yr Amgylchedd, Ynni a Materion Gwledig
1. Questions to the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs

Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni'r prynhawn yma yw'r cwestiynau i Weinidog yr Amgylchedd, Ynni a Materion Gwledig, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Nick Ramsay.

The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs, and the first question is from Nick Ramsay.

Datgarboneiddio
Decarbonisation

1. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i ddatgarboneiddio? OAQ54045

1. What measures is the Welsh Government taking to decarbonise? OAQ54045

In March, we launched our first Government-wide statutory decarbonisation plan, 'Prosperity for All: A Low Carbon Wales'. It sets out 100 policies and proposals, across all sectors of our economy, to meet our current carbon budget and set a longer term decarbonisation trajectory for Wales.

Ym mis Mawrth, lansiwyd ein cynllun datgarboneiddio statudol cyntaf ar gyfer y Llywodraeth gyfan, 'Ffyniant i Bawb: Cymru Carbon Isel'. Mae'n nodi 100 o bolisïau a chynigion, ar draws pob sector o'n heconomi, er mwyn cyflawni ein cyllideb garbon gyfredol, a phennu trywydd datgarboneiddio mwy hirdymor i Gymru.

Thank you, Minister. I was pleased to hear recently that the UK Government had set some very strict targets in terms of decarbonising by the middle of this century. And I think we all agree that drastic action is needed. So, it would be interesting to hear how your Government plans to dovetail with that. Secondly, I recently asked the First Minister, in questions, about some interesting work on climate repair that was going on in Cambridge University. And that work involves repairing the climate through not just cutting emissions, but using carbon sinks—trees to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. He responded that there's work ongoing into a new Welsh forest project in, I think, central Wales, but you would have more details on that. Could you update us on what form that work is taking? I think it's an excellent idea. I think that Wales is perfectly suited as a landscape, and as a destination for tourists, to have a lot more tree planting and new forestry, and I think that the people of Wales would be very interested to hear more about your plans for decarbonising the climate in this way.

Diolch, Weinidog. Roeddwn yn falch o glywed yn ddiweddar fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi gosod rhai targedau llym iawn ar gyfer datgarboneiddio erbyn canol y ganrif hon. Ac rwy'n credu ein bod i gyd yn cytuno bod angen gweithredu eithafol. Felly byddai'n ddiddorol clywed sut y mae eich Llywodraeth yn bwriadu gweithredu'n unol â hynny. Yn ail, yn ddiweddar, gofynnais i'r Prif Weinidog mewn sesiwn gwestiynau ynglŷn â gwaith diddorol ar adfer yr hinsawdd a oedd yn digwydd ym Mhrifysgol Caergrawnt. Ac mae'r gwaith hwnnw'n cynnwys adfer yr hinsawdd nid yn unig trwy dorri allyriadau, ond trwy ddalfeydd carbon—coed i gael gwared ar garbon deuocsid o'r atmosffer. Atebodd fod gwaith yn mynd rhagddo ar brosiect coedwigoedd newydd yng Nghymru, yng nghanolbarth Cymru, rwy’n credu, ond byddai gennych chi fwy o fanylion ar hynny. A allech roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni ynglŷn â natur y gwaith hwnnw? Rwy'n credu ei fod yn syniad ardderchog. Rwy’n credu bod Cymru yn dirwedd berffaith, ac fel cyrchfan i dwristiaid, ar gyfer cael llawer mwy o blannu coed a choedwigoedd newydd, ac rwy'n credu y byddai gan bobl Cymru ddiddordeb mawr mewn clywed mwy am eich cynlluniau ar gyfer datgarboneiddio'r hinsawdd fel hyn.

In response to the first part of your question, the UK Government, I and my Scottish counterpart asked the UK Committee on Climate Change for some advice around the targets. And you'll be aware that, just last week, I accepted the UK CCC's advice that we should look to reduce our carbon emissions by 95 per cent by 2050. I have accepted that advice. However, I've said our ambition is to be net zero, so I'm certainly going to work very closely with stakeholders to ensure that we are able to do that.

The second part of your question, around the answer given to you by the First Minister, one of the First Minister's manifesto commitments, when he became First Minister in December, was to have a national forest. So, officials are working up options now, but we've had a lot of discussions over the past four or five months in relation to this. So, I don't think the plan is to have a forest in the middle of Wales; it's to look at having different sites so that the national forest is truly pan-Wales. And we'll look at how we form that policy, going forward. I think I'm due some options by the end of this month, so hopefully I'll be in a position to make some decisions and, obviously, working closely with the First Minister, to be able to update the Assembly, probably in the autumn.

Mewn ymateb i ran gyntaf eich cwestiwn, gofynnodd Llywodraeth y DU, fy aelod cyfatebol yn yr Alban a minnau i Bwyllgor y DU ar Newid Hinsawdd am gyngor ynglŷn â’r targedau. Ac fe fyddwch yn gwybod, yr wythnos diwethaf, fy mod wedi cael cyngor y pwyllgor hwnnw y dylem geisio lleihau ein hallyriadau carbon 95 y cant erbyn 2050. Rwyf wedi derbyn y cyngor hwnnw. Fodd bynnag, rwyf wedi dweud mai ein huchelgais yw cyrraedd sero net, felly rwy'n sicr yn mynd i weithio'n agos iawn gyda rhanddeiliaid i sicrhau ein bod yn gallu gwneud hynny.

Mewn perthynas ag ail ran eich cwestiwn, ynglŷn â’r ateb a roddwyd i chi gan y Prif Weinidog, un o ymrwymiadau maniffesto'r Prif Weinidog pan ddaeth yn Brif Weinidog ym mis Rhagfyr oedd cael coedwig genedlaethol. Felly, mae swyddogion yn gweithio ar opsiynau yn awr, ond rydym wedi cael llawer o drafodaethau dros y pedwar neu bum mis diwethaf mewn perthynas â hyn. Felly nid wyf yn credu mai'r cynllun yw cael coedwig yng nghanol Cymru; y cynllun yw ystyried cael gwahanol safleoedd fel bod y goedwig genedlaethol o ddifrif yn rhywbeth ar gyfer Cymru gyfan. A byddwn yn edrych ar sut y ffurfiwn y polisi hwnnw wrth symud ymlaen. Rwy'n credu fy mod am gael rhai opsiynau erbyn diwedd y mis hwn, felly gobeithio y byddaf mewn sefyllfa i wneud rhai penderfyniadau, ac yn amlwg, gan weithio'n agos gyda'r Prif Weinidog, rwy’n gobeithio gallu rhoi’r newyddion diweddaraf i'r Cynulliad, yn yr hydref mae'n debyg.

I think that it's very important to get to net zero, but I think that we need to be more ambitious than that—I think actually start taking more carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere than we are putting in. So, net zero is a good way, but we need to go past that, and we can go past that by planting more trees and more plants. Through photosynthesis, they turn carbon dioxide into oxygen—it takes it out of the atmosphere. I think that's really important. I very much welcome this idea of planting trees. but can we have some targets? Can we say how many trees we're going to plant in each area each year? And that's not a stick to beat the Government—you say you're going to plant 1,000 but you only planted 900—but it's to actually let everybody know what is being attempted to be achieved. And I certainly wouldn't criticise you for planting 900 when it was meant to be 1,000, but it really is important we get these trees planted, to get the carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere.

Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn cyrraedd sero net, ond credaf fod angen i ni fod yn fwy uchelgeisiol na hynny—a dechrau tynnu mwy o garbon deuocsid o'r atmosffer na’r hyn rydym yn ei roi i mewn mewn gwirionedd. Felly mae sero net yn ffordd dda, ond mae angen inni ragori ar hynny. Ac rydym yn rhagori ar hynny drwy blannu mwy o goed a mwy o blanhigion. Trwy ffotosynthesis, maent yn troi carbon deuocsid yn ocsigen—mae'n ei dynnu allan o'r atmosffer. Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n bwysig iawn. Rwy'n croesawu'r syniad o blannu coed yn fawr iawn ond a gawn ni dargedau? A gawn ni ddweud faint o goed y bwriadwn eu plannu ym mhob ardal bob blwyddyn? Ac nid ffon i daro'r Llywodraeth â hi yw hynny—rydych chi'n dweud eich bod chi'n mynd i blannu 1,000 ond dim ond 900 a blannoch chi—ond ffordd o roi gwybod i bawb beth y ceisir ei gyflawni. Ac yn sicr ni fuaswn i yn eich beirniadu am blannu 900 pan oedd i fod yn 1,000, ond mae'n bwysig iawn ein bod yn plannu'r coed hyn, i gael y carbon deuocsid allan o'r atmosffer.

I absolutely agree with you that we need to plant more trees. We are not planting enough trees—nowhere near the number of trees that I want to see. And I've made it very clear that we need to certainly be looking at increasing the number. We had a target. We did not reach that target. I've been advised that we should be planting at least 2,000 hectares a year. Again, I don't think that's enough. And, certainly, if we're going to mitigate climate change, we need to look at carbon sequestration, which obviously is a critical element of the low-carbon delivery plan that I referred to in my opening answer to Nick Ramsay. So, we need to increase that forest cover right across Wales. I mentioned the national forest. Again, I think the plans that we're bringing forward for that will accelerate reforestation and will also unlock some major economic and environmental benefits. We've also got the Glastir woodland creation scheme, which the Member will be aware of. The last window closed in May, and there was a huge amount of interest, so I'm certainly looking to have a further round in the autumn, which will have a budget of about £1 million.

Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â chi fod angen i ni blannu mwy o goed. Nid ydym yn plannu digon o goed—heb fod yn agos at y nifer o goed rwyf am eu gweld. A dywedais yn glir iawn fod angen i ni ystyried cynyddu'r nifer. Roedd gennym darged. Ni chyraeddasom y targed hwnnw. Fe'm cynghorwyd y dylem fod yn plannu o leiaf 2,000 hectar y flwyddyn. Unwaith eto, nid wyf yn meddwl bod hynny'n ddigon. Ac yn sicr, os ydym am liniaru newid hinsawdd, mae angen inni ystyried dal a storio carbon, sy’n amlwg yn elfen hanfodol o'r cynllun cyflawni carbon isel y cyfeiriais ato yn fy ateb agoriadol i Nick Ramsay. Felly mae angen i ni gynyddu coedwigoedd ledled Cymru. Soniais am y goedwig genedlaethol. Unwaith eto, credaf y bydd y cynlluniau rydym yn eu cyflwyno ar gyfer hynny yn cyflymu ailgoedwigo, a bydd hefyd yn sicrhau manteision economaidd ac amgylcheddol mawr. Hefyd, mae gennym gynllun creu coetiroedd Glastir, y bydd yr Aelod yn ymwybodol ohono. Daeth y cyfnod ymgeisio olaf i ben ym mis Mai, ac roedd llawer iawn o ddiddordeb, felly rwy'n sicr yn awyddus i gael rownd bellach yn yr hydref, ac mae'n debyg y bydd ganddi gyllideb o tua £1 filiwn.

13:35
Bioamrywiaeth ym Merthyr Tudful a Rhymni
Biodiversity in Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney

2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am flaenoriaethau Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer bioamrywiaeth ym Merthyr Tudful a Rhymni? OAQ54053

2. Will the Minister provide an update on the Welsh Government's priorities for biodiversity in Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney? OAQ54053

Thank you. The nature recovery action plan and our natural resources policy set out our priorities for biodiversity. I have recently announced funding to support several enabling natural resources and well-being projects in Merthyr and the surrounding area to deliver these priorities and to help tackle the biodiversity crisis facing us all.

Diolch. Mae'r cynllun gweithredu ar adfer natur a'n polisi adnoddau naturiol yn nodi ein blaenoriaethau ar gyfer bioamrywiaeth. Yn ddiweddar cyhoeddais gyllid i gefnogi nifer o brosiectau galluogi adnoddau naturiol a llesiant ym Merthyr Tudful a'r ardal gyfagos er mwyn cyflawni'r blaenoriaethau hyn ac i helpu i fynd i'r afael â'r argyfwng bioamrywiaeth sy'n wynebu pawb ohonom.

Thank you, Minister. Clearly, all the expert advice received points to the decline of much of our biodiversity, so I believe it is vital to continue strengthening the connections between people, the local communities and their wider environment, and there's much to applaud in those local communities. In Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney, for example, we've seen the local angling association managing both the waterways and the river banks, the Royal Crescent Allotment Society developing bug zones for schoolchildren, and the kids have now become little beekeepers as well, and groups like Actif Woods Wales providing well-being opportunities in the local environment, which is a great opportunity for social prescribing, and there are lots of other similar initiatives. But some of those groups tell me about the big problems that they face with invasive weeds, such as knotweed and Himalayan balsam, which endangers much of the work that they do. So, what more can the Welsh Government do to help tackle the problem of invasive species to improve biodiversity?

Diolch, Weinidog. Yn amlwg, mae'r holl gyngor arbenigol a dderbyniwyd yn dynodi dirywiad llawer o'n bioamrywiaeth, felly credaf ei bod yn hanfodol parhau i gryfhau'r cysylltiadau rhwng pobl, y cymunedau lleol a'u hamgylchedd ehangach, ac mae llawer i'w gymeradwyo yn y cymunedau lleol hynny. Ym Merthyr Tudful a Rhymni, er enghraifft, rydym wedi gweld y gymdeithas bysgota leol yn rheoli dyfrffyrdd a glannau afonydd, grŵp rhandiroedd Royal Crescent yn datblygu parthau pryfed ar gyfer plant ysgol, ac mae'r plant bellach wedi dod yn wenynwyr bach hefyd, a grwpiau fel Coed Actif Cymru yn darparu cyfleoedd lles yn yr amgylchedd lleol, sy'n gyfle gwych ar gyfer presgripsiynu cymdeithasol, a cheir llawer o fentrau tebyg eraill. Ond mae rhai o'r grwpiau hynny’n dweud wrthyf am y problemau mawr y maent yn eu hwynebu gyda chwyn ymledol, fel clymog Japan a jac y neidiwr, sy'n peryglu llawer o'r gwaith a wnânt. Felly, beth arall y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud i helpu i fynd i'r afael â phroblem rhywogaethau goresgynnol er mwyn gwella bioamrywiaeth?

Thank you. Invasive non-native species challenge the survival of some our rarest species and damage some of our most sensitive ecosystems, and the impacts of them on our domestic and global biodiversity are increasing, and they're also increasing in their severity, I think. They are estimated to cost the Great Britain economy more than £1.7 billion per year, so you can see just how severe they are. We've been working with our partners, and that includes Natural Resources Wales, the Welsh Local Government Association, third sector, industry, and there's also a GB non-native species secretariat, to have a look at what priority actions we need to take to control and eradicate invasive non-native species in Wales. You may be aware that, in March, I introduced the Invasive Alien Species (Enforcement and Permitting) Order 2019. That Order comes into force on 1 October, and it will provide the offences, defences and penalties for the restrictions that are set out in EU regulation on the prevention and management of the introduction and spread of those invasive alien species, and the Order will ensure that EU regulation can be effectively enforced. 

Diolch. Mae rhywogaethau estron goresgynnol yn herio goroesiad rhai o'n rhywogaethau mwyaf prin ac yn niweidio rhai o'n hecosystemau mwyaf sensitif, ac mae eu heffaith ar ein bioamrywiaeth ddomestig a byd-eang yn cynyddu, ac rwy'n credu eu bod hefyd yn cynyddu o ran eu difrifoldeb. Amcangyfrifir eu bod yn costio dros £1.7 biliwn y flwyddyn i economi Prydain, felly gallwch weld pa mor ddifrifol ydynt. Rydym wedi bod yn gweithio gyda'n partneriaid, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru, Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, diwydiant y trydydd sector, a cheir ysgrifenyddiaeth rhywogaethau estron Prydain, i edrych ar ba gamau blaenoriaethol y mae angen i ni eu cymryd i reoli a dileu rhywogaethau estron goresgynnol yng Nghymru. Efallai y byddwch yn ymwybodol, ym mis Mawrth, fy mod wedi cyflwyno Gorchymyn Rhywogaethau Goresgynnol Estron (Gorfodi a Thrwyddedu) 2019. Daw'r Gorchymyn hwnnw i rym ar 1 Hydref, a bydd yn darparu'r troseddau, yr amddiffyniadau a'r cosbau ar gyfer y cyfyngiadau a nodir yn rheoliadau'r UE ar atal a rheoli cyflwyno a lledaenu'r rhywogaethau estron goresgynnol hynny, a bydd y Gorchymyn yn sicrhau y gellir gorfodi rheoliadau’r UE yn effeithiol.

Minister, Welsh farmers play an integral role in protecting and enhancing the countryside. Many of the valued habitats and species found on Welsh farmland are reliant on active management by farmers. RSPB Cymru claim that current levels of support aren't protecting the environment and fail to keep farm businesses viable or farmers on the land. I'm sure, Minister, that you recognise that food production and positive environmental benefits for many species are intrinsically linked. Minister, I'm pretty sure what you are doing to ensure active management by farmers is fairly rewarded in Wales.

Weinidog, mae ffermwyr Cymru’n chwarae rhan hanfodol yn diogelu a gwella cefn gwlad. Mae llawer o'r cynefinoedd a'r rhywogaethau gwerthfawr a geir ar dir ffermio Cymru’n dibynnu ar reolaeth weithredol gan ffermwyr. Mae RSPB Cymru yn honni nad yw'r lefelau cymorth presennol yn diogelu'r amgylchedd ac maent yn methu cadw busnesau fferm yn hyfyw na ffermwyr ar y tir. Rwy'n siŵr, Weinidog, eich bod yn cydnabod bod cynhyrchu bwyd a manteision amgylcheddol cadarnhaol i lawer o rywogaethau wedi'u cysylltu'n sylfaenol. Weinidog, rwy'n eithaf sicr fod yr hyn a wnewch i sicrhau rheolaeth weithredol gan ffermwyr yn cael ei wobrwyo'n deg yng Nghymru.

I can't disagree with anything that you're saying there, and you'll be aware of the announcement and the statement I brought forward in the Chamber last week around 'Brexit and our land' 2, for want of a better word at the moment, which will be the second part of the consultation around the post-Brexit agricultural policy. I always maintained that food production was very, very important. I think we were the only part of the UK that actually had food in the consultation. I certainly don't think 'Health and Harmony' did, because I absolutely recognise the importance of food production and our agricultural sector. 

Also, environmental outcomes are very important, and we made it very clear that, going forward, post Brexit, our agricultural payment system will reward environmental outcomes, and I would urge everyone to participate in that consultation once I launch it at the beginning of July. 

Ni allaf anghytuno ag unrhyw beth a ddywedwch, ac fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol o'r cyhoeddiad a'r datganiad a gyflwynais i’r Siambr yr wythnos diwethaf ynghylch 'Brexit a’n tir' 2, fel y’i gelwir ar hyn o bryd, a fydd yn ail ran yr ymgynghoriad ar y polisi amaethyddol ar ôl Brexit. Rwyf bob amser wedi bod o’r farn fod cynhyrchu bwyd yn bwysig tu hwnt. Rwy'n credu mai ni oedd yr unig ran o'r DU a oedd yn cynnwys bwyd yn yr ymgynghoriad. Yn sicr nid wyf yn credu bod ‘Iechyd a Harmoni’ wedi gwneud hynny, oherwydd rwy'n cydnabod pwysigrwydd cynhyrchu bwyd a'n sector amaethyddol yn llwyr.

Hefyd, mae canlyniadau amgylcheddol yn bwysig iawn, a gwnaethom yn glir iawn y bydd ein system taliadau amaethyddol yn y dyfodol, ar ôl Brexit, yn gwobrwyo canlyniadau amgylcheddol, a buaswn yn annog pawb i gymryd rhan yn yr ymgynghoriad hwnnw pan fyddaf yn ei lansio ddechrau mis Gorffennaf.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Llyr Gruffydd. 

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Llyr Gruffydd.

Diolch, Llywydd. Weinidog, byddwch chi'n gwybod bod Plaid Cymru wedi bod yn ymgyrchu yn ddiwyd yn erbyn llwybr du yr M4, ac mi roeddem ni, wrth gwrs, yn croesawu'r penderfyniad, pan ddaeth e, i beidio bwrw ymlaen â'r cynllun penodol hwnnw. Roeddem ni'n teimlo y byddai gwario £1.5 biliwn o leiaf o gyllid cyfalaf ar greu mwy o draffig yn annoeth. Ond gan nad yw'r arian yna nawr yn mynd i gael ei wario i'r union ddiben hwnnw, gaf i ofyn pa achos rŷch chi yn ei wneud yn y Cabinet i'r pres gael ei ddefnyddio i gryfhau is-adeiledd gwyrdd yng Nghymru, i leihau allyriadau ac i daclo newid hinsawdd? Oherwydd mi fyddai £1.5 biliwn o bunnoedd, wrth gwrs, yn gallu, er enghraifft, trawsnewid y sector ynni adnewyddadwy yng Nghymru, ac mi fyddai gan hynny hefyd botensial i gynhyrchu incwm i’r pwrs cyhoeddus mewn blynyddoedd i ddod. Felly, a allwch chi ddweud wrthym ni ba achos rydych chi wedi ei wneud dros ddefnyddio’r cyllid cyfalaf yma at bwrpas amgen?

Thank you, Llywydd. Minister, you will be aware that Plaid Cymru has been campaigning diligently against the M4 black route and, of course, we welcomed the decision when it came not to proceed with that specific proposal. We believe that spending at least £1.5 billion of capital on generating more traffic would be unwise. But, as that money is now not going to be spent for that purpose, can I ask you what case you are making within Cabinet for that funding to be used to strengthen green infrastructure in Wales, to reduce emissions and to tackle climate change? Because £1.5 billion, of course, could, for example, transform the renewable energy sector in Wales, which would have potential to generate income for the public purse in years to come. So, can you tell us what case you have made for using that capital funding for an alternative purpose?

13:40

So, those discussions will be taking place. I have had discussions around climate change and more funding for climate change across Government. I've had that conversation with the Minister for Finance directly. The specific funding that you refer to—the £1.5 billion in relation to the black route—obviously, you'll be aware that the Minister for Economy and Transport made an announcement around the group that he's setting up to look at alternatives. So, clearly, some of that funding—the majority of that funding; I don't know what will be the outcome of that review—will need to be used for those alternative plans. But I think all my ministerial colleagues, and many of them sit on the decarbonisation ministerial task and finish group, accept that if we are to mitigate climate change—and the whole point of declaring a climate emergency was not just to galvanise others into action—clearly, as a Government, we need to look at our plans and policies. So, those will be ongoing discussions.

Felly, bydd y trafodaethau hynny'n digwydd. Rwyf wedi cael trafodaethau ynghylch newid hinsawdd a mwy o arian ar gyfer newid hinsawdd ar draws y Llywodraeth. Rwyf wedi cael y sgwrs honno gyda'r Gweinidog Cyllid yn uniongyrchol. Y cyllid penodol y cyfeiriwch ato—yr £1.5 biliwn mewn perthynas â'r llwybr du—yn amlwg, fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol fod Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth wedi gwneud cyhoeddiad ynglŷn â'r grŵp y mae'n ei sefydlu i edrych ar ddewisiadau amgen. Felly, yn amlwg, bydd angen defnyddio rhywfaint o'r cyllid hwnnw—y rhan fwyaf o'r cyllid hwnnw; nid wyf yn gwybod beth fydd canlyniad yr adolygiad hwnnw—ar gyfer y cynlluniau amgen hynny. Ond rwy'n credu bod fy nghyd-Weinidogion i gyd, ac mae llawer ohonynt yn aelodau o grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen y Gweinidog ar ddatgarboneiddio, yn derbyn, os ydym am liniaru newid hinsawdd—ac nid ysgogi eraill i weithredu'n unig oedd diben datgan argyfwng hinsawdd—yn amlwg, fel Llywodraeth, mae angen inni edrych ar ein cynlluniau a'n polisïau. Felly, bydd y rheini'n drafodaethau sy'n mynd rhagddynt.

Iawn, ac rŷch chi’n berffaith iawn i ddweud mai holl bwrpas datgan argyfwng hinsawdd yw i weld newid trawsnewidiol, a dweud y gwir. Ac mae yna gryn amser ers ichi wneud y datganiad hwnnw fel Llywodraeth—nifer o wythnosau erbyn hyn. Rŷch chi wedi gwneud ambell i ddatganiad ysgrifenedig a chwpwl o gyfeiriadau ar lafar i’r datganiad hwnnw ond, wrth gwrs, dŷn ni ddim wedi gweld unrhyw beth trawsnewidiol eto o safbwynt eich gwaith chi a’ch cyfrifoldebau chi fel Gweinidog. Nawr, dwi’n siŵr y byddech chi’n cytuno, wrth gwrs, nad dim ond eich rôl chi yw hynny; mae’n rôl i bob aelod Cabinet, ac mi fyddwn i, fel y mae nifer eraill wedi sôn cyn nawr, yn dymuno gweld pob Gweinidog yn gwneud datganiad fan hyn yn y Siambr yn esbonio yn union sut mae eu gwaith nhw yn mynd i newid a’u blaenoriaethau nhw o fewn eu portffolios nhw yn newid yn sgil datgan argyfwng hinsawdd.

Ond, jest i ddod nôl at eich cyfrifoldeb chi, ac mae hwn yn rhywbeth rwyf wedi ei godi chi yn flaenorol—a dwi’n gobeithio efallai, ers i fi ei godi e'n flaenorol, eich bod chi wedi cael cyfle i bwyso a mesur—dwi eisiau gwybod pa gyfarwyddyd newydd rŷch chi wedi ei roi yn dilyn datgan argyfwng hinsawdd i’r adrannau a’r cyrff sy’n dod o dan eich adain chi. Dwi’n meddwl am Gyfoeth Naturiol Cymru, Hybu Cig Cymru—mae yna ystod o gyrff rŷch chi yn eu hariannu ac yn gyfrifol amdanyn nhw. A ydych chi’n bwriadu diwygio llythyrau cylch gorchwyl y cyrff yma, oherwydd, fel rŷch chi wedi dweud eich hunain, holl bwrpas datgan argyfwng newid hinsawdd neu argyfwng hinsawdd, yw er mwyn cael yr effaith drawsnewidiol yna? Os na wnewch chi hynny, yna mi fydd pobl yn tybio bod dim byd wedi newid a'i bod hi’n fusnes fel arfer i’r Llywodraeth yma.

Fine, and you're quite right to say that the whole purpose of declaring a climate emergency is to see transformational change, if truth be told. And it is quite some time since you made that declaration as a Government—it's been some weeks now. You've made some written statements and a few oral references to that declaration, but we haven't seen anything transformational as of yet in terms of your work and your responsibilities as a Minister. Now, I'm sure you would agree that that's not just your role; it's a role for every Cabinet member. And I, as others have mentioned before now, would want to see every Minister making a statement here in this Chamber explaining exactly how their work will change and how their priorities within their portfolios will change as a result of the declaration of a climate emergency.

But just to return to your responsibilities, and this is something that I've raised with you previously—and I hope that, since I've raised it with you previously, you've had an opportunity to give it some consideration, but I want to know what new direction you have given, following the declaration of a climate emergency, to the bodies within your remit. I'm thinking of Natural Resources Wales, Hybu Cig Cymru—there's a range of bodies that you fund and are responsible for. So, do you intend to amend their remit letters, because, as you said yourself, the whole purpose of the declaration of a climate emergency is to have that transformational change? If you don't do that, then people will feel that nothing has changed and that it's business as usual for this Government.

Well, it's certainly not business as usual. You will have heard me say that the low-carbon delivery plan, which was launched just in March, which contains a 100 policies and proposals, is the foundation for us reaching our carbon emissions target and our carbon budget, but I have asked officials to review those 100 policies and proposals in light of (1) the advice that we received from the UK Committee on Climate Change, which I think was a couple of weeks after we declared the emergency. A you're quite right—I think that, across Government, everybody is having to look at their policies and proposals and the schemes that they're bringing forward to see if they fit in and what needs to change in relation to the climate emergency.

I think we have seen others galvanised into action. I think it's been very encouraging to see the number of local authorities and town and community councils that have decided themselves to declare a climate emergency, so I think we are seeing that galvanising the action that we hoped we would see.

In relation to your specific questions about whether I'll be changing the remit letters, that is something, again, I'm looking at. I meet with NRW on a monthly basis, so we've certainly discussed the climate emergency and what they're looking at doing. So, I know, for instance, that NRW are looking at what extra land they have for planting trees. I think they've got some land that they've banked that can be reforested, and we need to look at, obviously, money for that. HCC I'm due to meet in the near future and, again, it will be on the agenda.

Wel, yn sicr nid yw'n fusnes fel arfer. Byddwch wedi fy nghlywed yn dweud mai'r cynllun cyflawni carbon isel a lansiwyd ym mis Mawrth, ac sy'n cynnwys 100 o bolisïau ac argymhellion, yw'r sylfaen inni allu cyrraedd ein targed ar gyfer allyriadau carbon a'n cyllideb garbon, ond rwyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion adolygu'r 100 o bolisïau ac argymhellion gan ystyried (1) y cyngor a gawsom gan Bwyllgor y DU ar Newid Hinsawdd, a gynhaliwyd ychydig wythnosau ar ôl i ni ddatgan yr argyfwng, rwy'n credu. Ac rydych yn llygad eich lle—credaf fod pawb, ar draws y Llywodraeth, yn gorfod edrych ar eu polisïau a'u hargymhellion a'r cynlluniau y maent yn eu cyflwyno i weld a ydynt yn cyd-fynd â'r hyn sydd angen ei newid mewn perthynas â'r argyfwng hinsawdd.

Rwy'n credu ein bod wedi gweld eraill yn cael eu symbylu i weithredu. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn galonogol iawn gweld nifer yr awdurdodau lleol a'r cynghorau tref a chymuned sydd wedi penderfynu drostynt eu hunain eu bod yn datgan argyfwng hinsawdd, felly rwy'n credu ein bod yn gweld hynny'n ysgogi'r gweithredu roeddem yn gobeithio ei weld.

Mewn perthynas â'ch cwestiynau penodol ynglŷn ag a fyddaf yn newid y llythyrau cylch gwaith, mae hynny, unwaith eto, yn rhywbeth rwy'n ei ystyried. Rwy'n cyfarfod â Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru bob mis, felly rydym yn sicr wedi trafod yr argyfwng hinsawdd a'r hyn y maent yn ystyried ei wneud. Felly, gwn er enghraifft fod Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru'n edrych ar ba dir ychwanegol sydd ganddynt ar gyfer plannu coed. Credaf fod ganddynt dir y maent wedi'i fancio y gellir ei ailgoedwigo, ac mae angen inni edrych ar arian ar gyfer hynny wrth gwrs. Rwyf i fod i gyfarfod â Hybu Cig Cymru yn y dyfodol agos ac unwaith eto, bydd y mater hwn ar yr agenda.

Iawn. Wel, mi arhoswn ni eto i glywed unrhyw newidiadau penodol. Fe wnaf i awgrymu un peth ichi, efallai. Dwi’n cofio pan oedd y Llywodraeth ddiwethaf yn awyddus i wrthwynebu ffracio yng Nghymru. Doedd gan y Llywodraeth bryd hynny, wrth gwrs, ddim pwerau dros yr hawl i wrthod yn benodol, ond mi ddefnyddiwyd y system gynllunio, os cofiwch chi, fel ffordd i drio creu rhyw fath o foratoriwm. Nawr, roedd rhai ohonom ni'n anghytuno ei fod e'n foratoriwm mewn gwirionedd, ond awn ni ddim ar ôl yr sgwarnog yna. Ond yn sicr mi oedd yna ewyllys gan y Llywodraeth ddiwethaf, er nad oedd ganddi'r pwerau, i drio defnyddio'r hyn oedd ganddi i atal cynlluniau ffracio.

Nawr, byddwch chi'n ymwybodol o gais diweddar am brofion seismig ym mae Ceredigion, sy'n cael ei ddefnyddio, wrth gwrs, gan gwmnïoedd olew a nwy i ddod o hyd i'r lleoliadau gorau i ddrilio. Dyw hwnna ddim wedi ei ddatganoli; mae hwnna'n dal i fod yn gyfrifoldeb Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig, ond, wrth gwrs, gall trwyddedau ddim ond cael eu rhoi os yw Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru wedi cael eu boddhau. Felly, oni ddylai Llywodraeth Cymru ddatgan, yn yr un modd ag y gwnaethpwyd gyda ffracio a'r system gynllunio, na fyddai Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru, er enghraifft, yn bodloni i drwyddedu unrhyw gynlluniau tebyg yn y dyfodol fel neges glir i'r sector nad oes croeso iddyn nhw, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, y byddai hynny'n anghydnaws â'r argyfwng hinsawdd sydd gennym ni yng Nghymru, ac, wrth gwrs, dylem ni fod yn cadw tanwydd ffosil yn y ddaear?

Okay. Well, we'll await any specific changes. I will suggest one thing to you. I remember when the previous Government was eager to oppose fracking in Wales. The Government at that time had no powers in rejecting it specifically, but the planning system was used, you may recall, as a means of creating some sort of moratorium. Now, some of us disagreed as to whether it was really a moratorium, but we won’t follow that up at the moment. But, certainly, there was a desire in the previous Government, although it didn’t have the powers, to try and use the levers it had to prevent fracking.

Now, you’ll be aware of the recent application for seismic testing in Cardigan bay, which is being used by gas and oil companies to find the best locations for drilling. That is non-devolved; that is still the responsibility of the UK Government, but, of course, licences can only be given if NRW are satisfied. So, shouldn’t the Welsh Government state, exactly as they did with fracking and the planning system, that NRW, for example, wouldn’t be satisfied in licensing any similar plans in the future as a clear message to the sector that they are not welcome, because, of course, that would not be in keeping with the climate emergency that we have in Wales and, of course, we should be keeping fossil fuels in the ground?

13:45

Yes, absolutely, and you'll be aware that that particular licence that you referred to has been suspended, but I certainly made my views very clear to the UK Government. I've had a lot of correspondence—and I'm sure there are some Members in the Chamber, including the Presiding Officer, who I've also written to regarding that, setting out that very stance that you've just described. So, we need to do—. We certainly need to look at how we can strengthen that so people are very aware of our view. But you're quite right: it would have to come to us at some point along the chain, even though it's a reserved matter, and I think I've made it very clear in my correspondence that that's the case.

Yn bendant, a byddwch yn gwybod bod y drwydded benodol y cyfeirioch chi ati wedi cael ei hatal, ond yn sicr, gwneuthum fy marn yn glir iawn i Lywodraeth y DU. Rwyf wedi cael llawer o ohebiaeth—ac rwy'n siŵr fy mod wedi ysgrifennu at Aelodau yn y Siambr, gan gynnwys y Llywydd, ynglŷn â hynny, i amlinellu'r union safbwynt rydych newydd ei ddisgrifio. Felly, mae angen inni—. Yn sicr, mae angen inni edrych ar sut y gallwn gryfhau hynny fel bod pobl yn ymwybodol iawn o'n barn. Ond rydych chi'n llygad eich lle: byddai'n rhaid iddo ddod atom ar ryw bwynt yn y gadwyn, er ei fod yn fater a gadwyd yn ôl, ac rwy'n credu fy mod wedi dweud hynny'n glir iawn yn fy llythyr.

Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Conservative spokesperson, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Minister, I've raised with you on several occasions, and indeed I raised it with the First Minister yesterday, that, in your statement attached to the announcement around going for net zero by 2050, you said that that journey will be the biggest planned economic transition of modern times, and you've also made, obviously, a climate change emergency declaration. But when I go to the Cabinet minutes of that Cabinet meeting on 29 April, the declaration was informed to the Cabinet under 'any other business', and it says:

'The Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs informed Cabinet that she had declared the climate change emergency...that day.'

That hardly shows much planning or planning into the scheme of things that you're going to need to do to change the economy and to protect jobs and create quality jobs. Do you think that's an appropriate way for Cabinet to work?

Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, rwyf wedi gofyn i chi ynglŷn â hyn sawl gwaith, ac yn wir holais y Prif Weinidog yn ei gylch ddoe, sef eich bod wedi dweud yn eich datganiad a oedd ynghlwm wrth y cyhoeddiad ynghylch anelu i fod yn sero net erbyn 2050, mai'r daith honno fydd y newid economaidd mwyaf a gynlluniwyd erioed yn yr oes fodern, ac rydych hefyd wrth gwrs wedi gwneud datganiad ar argyfwng hinsawdd. Ond pan edrychaf ar gofnodion y cyfarfod Cabinet hwnnw ar 29 Ebrill, rhoddwyd gwybod i'r Cabinet am y datganiad o dan 'unrhyw fater arall', ac mae'n dweud:

Hysbysodd Gweinidog yr Amgylchedd, Ynni a Materion Gwledig y Cabinet ei bod wedi datgan argyfwng newid hinsawdd... y diwrnod hwnnw.

Go brin fod hynny'n dangos llawer o gynllunio neu gynllunio pethau y bydd angen ichi eu gwneud er mwyn newid yr economi a diogelu swyddi a chreu swyddi o safon. A ydych chi'n credu bod honno'n ffordd briodol i'r Cabinet weithio?

Well, you're reading the minutes from the Cabinet; you won't be aware of all the discussions that went on ahead of the declaration of a climate emergency. The decarbonisation ministerial task and finish group, which I chair, meets every six weeks/two months. Discussions are ongoing through that task and finish group. The Minister for Economy and Transport sits on that committee.

The low carbon delivery plan, which I've referred to a couple of times already in this session, was where we set out our 100 policies and proposals. Again, there have been many discussions across Cabinet to bring that forward, and this is all part—. As I said yesterday, all these parts: decarbonisation, climate change mitigation, air quality, all are very integral—they're separate things, but they are integral. So, those discussions—. It wasn't just an announcement I made; people were very aware that that announcement was coming.

Wel, rydych chi'n darllen cofnodion y Cabinet; ni fyddwch yn ymwybodol o'r holl drafodaethau a ddigwyddodd cyn datgan argyfwng hinsawdd. Mae grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen y Gweinidog ar ddatgarboneiddio a gadeirir gennyf yn cyfarfod bob chwe wythnos/dau fis. Mae trafodaethau'n mynd rhagddynt drwy'r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen hwnnw. Mae Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth yn aelod o'r pwyllgor hwnnw.

Y cynllun cyflawni carbon isel y cyfeiriais ato unwaith neu ddwy eisoes yn y sesiwn hon oedd lle y gwnaethom nodi ein 100 o bolisïau ac argymhellion. Unwaith eto, bu llawer o drafodaethau ar draws y Cabinet ar gyflwyno hynny, ac mae hyn i gyd yn rhan—. Fel y dywedais ddoe, mae'r holl rannau hyn: datgarboneiddio, lliniaru newid hinsawdd, ansawdd aer, i gyd yn hollbwysig—maent yn bethau ar wahân, ond maent yn hollbwysig. Felly, mae'r trafodaethau hynny—. Nid dim ond cyhoeddiad a wnaed gennyf fi ydoedd; roedd pobl yn ymwybodol iawn fod y cyhoeddiad hwnnw'n dod.

Thank you for that. I'm not knocking the decisions that you've taken; actually I've been supportive of them, but what concerns me is the action behind some of these announcements. I have to say that I thought that the minutes of Cabinet were meant to reflect the discussion that went on in Cabinet. And I agree that this is a whole Government response. We've heard since those declarations that Government obviously is having to deal with all these issues around their policy portfolio issues, but that minute doesn't clearly indicate to me that there has been that discussion. So, obviously, you're telling us there has. For example, can you tell me how many jobs will be lost in the Welsh economy because of the transition and how many jobs might be created in the green revolution we hope to see? That's a pretty straightforward question and, if Ken Skates has been on your committee, let's have an understanding of this transition that you've talked about and what we might and might not expect as we go forward.

Diolch am hynny. Nid wyf yn beirniadu'r penderfyniadau a wnaethoch; mewn gwirionedd, rwyf wedi eu cefnogi, ond yr hyn sy'n fy mhoeni yw'r gweithredu y tu ôl i rai o'r cyhoeddiadau hyn. Rhaid imi ddweud fy mod yn credu bod cofnodion y Cabinet i fod i adlewyrchu'r drafodaeth a ddigwyddodd yn y Cabinet. Ac rwy'n cytuno bod hwn yn ymateb gan y Llywodraeth gyfan. Rydym wedi clywed ers y datganiadau hynny fod y Llywodraeth yn amlwg yn gorfod ymdrin â'r holl faterion sy'n ymwneud â'u portffolio polisïau, ond nid yw'r cofnodion hynny'n dangos yn glir i mi fod y drafodaeth honno wedi digwydd. Felly, yn amlwg, rydych chi'n dweud wrthym ei bod wedi digwydd. Er enghraifft, a allwch ddweud wrthyf faint o swyddi a gollir yn economi Cymru oherwydd y trawsnewid a faint o swyddi a allai gael eu creu yn y chwyldro gwyrdd y gobeithiwn ei weld? Mae hwnnw'n gwestiwn eithaf syml, ac os yw Ken Skates wedi bod yn aelod o'ch pwyllgor, gadewch i ni ddeall y newid hwn rydych wedi'i drafod a'r hyn y gallem ei ddisgwyl neu fel arall wrth inni symud ymlaen.

So, the minute that you referred to wasn't a minute of a discussion. You said yourself it was 'any other business', so it wasn't a minute of a discussion in Cabinet. Those discussions take place in other places across the Government.

In relation to your question about the number of jobs, I can't give you a figure. What I've discussed with Ken Skates is the opportunity for more jobs if we transition to a low-carbon economy and I think, in other parts of the world that are ahead of us, you will see that that's the case.

Nid cofnod o drafodaeth oedd y cofnod y cyfeirioch chi ato. Fe ddywedoch eich hun mai 'unrhyw fater arall' ydoedd, felly nid oedd yn gofnod o drafodaeth yn y Cabinet. Mae'r trafodaethau hynny'n digwydd mewn mannau eraill ar draws y Llywodraeth.

O ran eich cwestiwn am nifer y swyddi, ni allaf roi ffigur i chi. Yr hyn a drafodais gyda Ken Skates yw'r cyfle i gael mwy o swyddi os byddwn yn newid i economi carbon isel a chredaf y byddwch yn gweld bod hynny'n wir mewn rhannau eraill o'r byd sydd o'n blaenau.

I appreciate that you might not be able to give me an exact figure today, but, surely, amongst your discussions with Cabinet colleagues, you would have some understanding of the job implications here—the ones that might be lost from what we might call the old carbon economy and what might be created in the green economy. So, I'd hoped that maybe you'd be able to inform Members of that. One of the things that is happening in Westminster, for example, around their declaration, is that the Treasury there have provided hard and fast financials around some of the commitments the Government might have to take if it is to hit its net zero by 2050, and the figure of £1 trillion has been talked of, and about £70 billion a year. What economic modelling has the Welsh Government undertaken and has been made available to you when you've been making your decisions—and other members of the Government—so that you can make informed decisions that obviously put us in the best possible place? And, if that modelling has been made available to you, will you commit to make that available to Assembly Members so that we can have sight of it and understand exactly how the decisions have been taken?

Sylweddolaf na allwch roi ffigur union i mi heddiw, ond yn sicr, ymysg eich trafodaethau gyda'ch cyd-Weinidogion Cabinet, byddai gennych rywfaint o ddealltwriaeth o'r goblygiadau o ran swyddi yma—y rhai a allai gael eu colli o'r hyn y gallem ei alw'n hen economi garbon a'r hyn y gellid ei greu yn yr economi werdd. Felly, roeddwn i'n gobeithio efallai y byddech yn gallu rhoi gwybod i'r Aelodau am hynny. Un o'r pethau sy'n digwydd yn San Steffan, er enghraifft, mewn perthynas â'u datganiad, yw bod y Trysorlys yno wedi darparu manylion ariannol cadarn rhai o'r ymrwymiadau y gallai'r Llywodraeth orfod eu gwneud os yw'n mynd i gyrraedd sero net erbyn 2050, a soniwyd am ffigur o £1 triliwn, a thua £70 biliwn y flwyddyn. Pa fodelu economaidd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i wneud ac sydd wedi'i ddarparu i chi pan fyddwch wedi bod yn gwneud eich penderfyniadau—ac aelodau eraill o'r Llywodraeth—fel y gallwch wneud penderfyniadau hyddysg sy'n amlwg yn ein rhoi yn y lle gorau posibl? Ac os yw'r modelu hwnnw ar gael i chi, a wnewch chi ymrwymo i sicrhau ei fod ar gael i Aelodau'r Cynulliad fel y gallwn ei weld a deall sut yn union y cafodd y penderfyniadau eu gwneud?

13:50

So, I go back to what I said in my second answer to you, that I think there are more opportunities in the low-carbon economy sector—or sectors, really. So, the balance—. I can't give you figures. Certainly, the chief economist who advises all members of the Government will have given us advice that we will have considered. I don't know if it's commercially sensitive or if there's any other reasons why I can't publish it, but I will look into that and let the Member know.

Dychwelaf at yr hyn a ddywedais yn fy ail ateb i chi, sef fy mod yn meddwl bod mwy o gyfleoedd yn y sector economi carbon isel—neu sectorau, mewn gwirionedd. Felly, mae'r cydbwysedd—. Ni allaf roi ffigurau i chi. Yn sicr, bydd y prif economegydd sy'n cynghori holl Aelodau'r Llywodraeth wedi rhoi cyngor i ni y byddwn wedi'i ystyried. Nid wyf yn gwybod os yw'n sensitif yn fasnachol neu os oes unrhyw resymau eraill pam na chaf ei gyhoeddi, ond fe ymchwiliaf i hynny a rhoi gwybod i'r Aelod.

Tynnwyd cwestiwn 3 [OAQ54055] yn ôl. Cwestiwn 4—David Rees. 

Question 3 [OAQ54055] is withdrawn. Question 4—David Rees. 

Hybu Twristiaeth
Promoting Tourism

4. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u cael gyda Gweinidog y Gymraeg a Chysylltiadau Rhyngwladol ynghylch sut y gall Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru weithio gyda chymunedau lleol i hybu twristiaeth? OAQ54078

4. What discussions has the Minister had with the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language on how Natural Resources Wales can work with local communities to promote tourism? OAQ54078

Thank you. I regularly meet with the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language to discuss various issues, including tourism. I've recently written to the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism about the breadth of support my portfolio provides to the tourism industry.

Diolch. Byddaf yn cyfarfod yn rheolaidd â Gweinidog y Gymraeg a Chysylltiadau Rhyngwladol i drafod materion amrywiol, gan gynnwys twristiaeth. Rwyf wedi ysgrifennu at y Dirprwy Weinidog Diwylliant, Chwaraeon a Thwristiaeth yn ddiweddar ynghylch ehangder y cymorth y mae fy mhortffolio yn ei roi i'r diwydiant twristiaeth.

Well, thank you for that answer, Minister. Many Valleys communities, including those in the Afan Valley, have developed tourism as a means of growing the economy following the demise of the mining industry in those valleys. Much of the land surrounding those communities is actually owned by the Welsh Government and managed on their behalf by NRW. This land offers outdoor experiences to those visitors who come to those areas. For example, in my valley, mountain biking is a big issue and it uses the NRW land, very much so, to give an experience to visitors, and some of those trails are renowned worldwide, with many visitors coming from outside of the UK to experience them.

Now, it's important, therefore, that NRW works with the communities to ensure that no unnecessary barriers exist that would damage the opportunities for tourism in these valleys. Minister, therefore, will you ensure that tourism is high on the agenda of NRW and will you seek support from your Cabinet colleagues, because I understand the funding challenges you will face, because this will need funding, because, for mountain biking, for example, you need to maintain the trails and sometimes those trails are vandalised by people using bikes as well? So, will you have those discussions to ensure that that agenda is high on their list?

Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Mae llawer o gymunedau'r Cymoedd, gan gynnwys y rheini yng Nghwm Afan, wedi datblygu twristiaeth fel modd o dyfu'r economi ar ôl tranc y diwydiant glo yn y cymoedd hynny. Mae llawer o'r tir o amgylch y cymunedau hynny'n eiddo i Lywodraeth Cymru mewn gwirionedd ac yn cael ei reoli ar eu rhan gan Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru. Mae'r tir hwn yn cynnig profiadau awyr agored i'r ymwelwyr sy'n dod i'r ardaloedd hynny. Er enghraifft, yn fy nghwm i, mae beicio mynydd yn fater pwysig ac mae'n sicr yn defnyddio tir CNC i roi profiad i ymwelwyr, ac mae rhai o'r llwybrau hynny'n enwog ledled y byd, gyda llawer o ymwelwyr yn dod o'r tu allan i'r DU i'w profi.

Nawr, mae'n bwysig, felly, fod CNC yn gweithio gyda'r cymunedau i sicrhau nad oes unrhyw rwystrau diangen yn bodoli a fyddai'n niweidio'r cyfleoedd ar gyfer twristiaeth yn y cymoedd hyn. Felly, Weinidog, a wnewch chi sicrhau bod twristiaeth yn uchel ar agenda CNC ac a wnewch chi ofyn am gefnogaeth eich cyd-Weinidogion yn y Cabinet, gan fy mod yn deall yr heriau ariannol y byddwch yn eu hwynebu, oherwydd bydd angen cyllid ar gyfer hyn, oherwydd, ar gyfer beicio mynydd, er enghraifft, mae angen i chi gynnal a chadw'r llwybrau ac weithiau caiff y llwybrau hynny eu fandaleiddio gan bobl sy'n defnyddio eu beiciau hefyd? Felly, a fyddwch yn cael y trafodaethau hynny i sicrhau bod yr agenda honno'n uchel ar eu rhestr?

Thank you. I think you're absolutely right to flag that Natural Resources Wales, amongst others, have a very important part to play in protecting our natural environment and supporting our tourism industry. If my memory serves me right, the letter I did write to my colleague Dafydd Elis-Thomas—the word 'NRW' probably appeared more than any other word. So, I know, for instance, they're a consultee in the planning process around the current developments in the Afan Valley in your constituency. I know there's the proposed Afan adventure resort development. But I think it's really important that we do work together. You're right about communities. We need to work with our future generations within the guidelines of the future generations Act so that everyone can benefit from our natural resources.

Diolch. Rwy'n credu eich bod yn hollol gywir i dynnu sylw at y ffaith bod gan Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru, ymhlith eraill, ran bwysig iawn i'w chwarae yn diogelu ein hamgylchedd naturiol a chefnogi ein diwydiant twristiaeth. Os cofiaf yn iawn, mae'r llythyr a ysgrifennais at fy nghyd-Aelod, Dafydd Elis-Thomas—mae'n debyg fod 'CNC' wedi ymddangos mwy nag unrhyw air arall. Felly rwy'n gwybod, er enghraifft, eu bod yn ymgynghorai yn y broses gynllunio ynglŷn â'r datblygiadau presennol yng Nghwm Afan yn eich etholaeth. Gwn fod bwriad i ddatblygu canolfan antur Afan. Ond rwy'n meddwl ei bod yn bwysig iawn ein bod yn gweithio gyda'n gilydd. Rydych chi'n iawn ynglŷn â chymunedau. Mae angen inni weithio gyda chenedlaethau'r dyfodol o fewn canllawiau Deddf cenedlaethau'r dyfodol fel y gall pawb elwa o'n hadnoddau naturiol.

Thank you for your answer to David Rees then. I'm just thinking about how you can work with NRW with other portfolios within Government as well as tourism and where these possibilities can intersect with each other. In January, I asked you whether you thought there was an opportunity for Natural Resources Wales to work with schools so that children and young people could play a part in replanting trees in their local areas, and I think it cropped up in the context of the Afan Valley, actually, because not only does that help the well-being of communities and tourists and actually tourism business as well, it goes back to Mike Hedges's question about learning about science and carbon capture as well as the history of that valley.

At the time, you said you thought it was a good idea and that you'd be speaking to your colleague Kirsty Williams about that. I hear that you've spoken to the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism. I'm wondering whether it might be worth an addendum to that letter to raise this as a possibility. Thank you.

Diolch am eich ateb i David Rees yn y fan honno. Rwy'n meddwl sut y gallwch weithio gyda CNC gyda phortffolios eraill o fewn y Llywodraeth yn ogystal â thwristiaeth a lle gall y posibiliadau hyn gydblethu â'i gilydd. Ym mis Ionawr, gofynnais a oeddech yn meddwl bod cyfle i Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru weithio gydag ysgolion fel y gallai plant a phobl ifanc chwarae rhan yn ailblannu coed yn eu hardaloedd lleol, a chredaf ei fod wedi codi yng nghyd-destun Cwm Afan, a dweud y gwir, oherwydd nid yn unig fod hynny'n helpu lles cymunedau a thwristiaid, a busnesau twristiaeth hefyd yn wir, mae'n mynd yn ôl at gwestiwn Mike Hedges am ddysgu am wyddoniaeth a dal carbon yn ogystal â hanes y cwm hwnnw.

Ar y pryd, fe ddywedoch eich bod yn meddwl ei fod yn syniad da ac y byddech yn siarad â'ch cyd-Aelod Kirsty Williams ynglŷn â hynny. Clywaf eich bod wedi siarad â'r Dirprwy Weinidog Diwylliant, Chwaraeon a Thwristiaeth. Rwy'n meddwl tybed a allai fod yn werth rhoi atodiad i'r llythyr hwnnw er mwyn codi hyn fel posibilrwydd. Diolch.

Yes, certainly. You raise some very important points, and I've had in-depth conversations with both the chair and chief exec and other members of NRW around planting trees, because—I answered in my earlier answer to Mike Hedges that we're not planting enough trees, and, certainly, if we are going to mitigate climate change in the way we would want to, we need to ensure that happens. So, I know NRW are working with schools, from the last conversation I had with them. I don't know if it's specifically around planting trees, but it's certainly an opportunity, I think, that they can take forward. NRW manage 7 per cent of Wales's land area, and that obviously includes many reserves and picnic areas and woodland, so it's a very good opportunity to get out there in the fresh air and improve well-being.

Yn sicr. Rydych yn gwneud pwyntiau pwysig iawn, ac rwyf wedi cael sgyrsiau manwl gyda chadeirydd a phrif weithredwr ac aelodau eraill CNC ynghylch plannu coed, oherwydd—atebais yn fy ateb cynharach i Mike Hedges nad ydym yn plannu digon o goed, ac yn sicr, os ydym yn mynd i liniaru newid hinsawdd yn y ffordd y byddem yn dymuno ei wneud, mae angen i ni sicrhau bod hynny'n digwydd. Felly, rwy'n gwybod bod CNC yn gweithio gydag ysgolion o'r sgwrs ddiwethaf a gefais gyda hwy. Nid wyf yn gwybod a yw'n ymwneud yn benodol â phlannu coed, ond rwy'n credu ei fod yn sicr yn gyfle y gallant ei ddatblygu. Mae CNC yn rheoli 7 y cant o arwynebedd tir Cymru, ac mae'n amlwg fod hynny'n cynnwys llawer o warchodfeydd ac ardaloedd picnic a choetiroedd, felly mae'n gyfle da iawn i fynd allan i'r awyr iach a gwella lles.

13:55

Minister, I'd like to echo David's comments. My region is home to many natural wonders, including the Crymlyn bog national nature reserve. As the species champion for the fen raft spider, which has its home at Crymlyn bog, can I ask what discussions you've had with the Minister for international relations about how our biodiversity can play a part in our international tourism offer? I am sure that there are entomologists across the globe who will come to our area to see our amazing fen raft spider. Thank you.

Weinidog, hoffwn adleisio sylwadau David. Mae fy rhanbarth yn gartref i lawer o ryfeddodau naturiol, gan gynnwys gwarchodfa natur genedlaethol cors Crymlyn. Fel yr hyrwyddwr rhywogaethau ar gyfer corryn rafft y ffen, sydd â'i gartref yng nghors Crymlyn, a gaf fi ofyn pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda'r Gweinidog cysylltiadau rhyngwladol ynglŷn â sut y gall ein bioamrywiaeth chwarae rhan yn ein cynnig twristiaeth rhyngwladol? Rwy'n siŵr fod yna entomolegwyr ar draws y byd a ddaw i'n hardal i weld ein corryn rafft y ffen gwych. Diolch.

I haven't had a discussion about that particular spider with my colleague Eluned Morgan—I think I would remember if I had—but it's certainly something that I'm very happy to look at, and, if there is research and data that will help us, I'd be very interested to see it.

Nid wyf wedi cael trafodaeth am y corryn arbennig hwnnw gyda fy nghyd-Aelod, Eluned Morgan—rwy'n meddwl y buaswn yn cofio pe bawn i wedi cael—ond mae'n sicr yn rhywbeth rwy'n hapus iawn i edrych arno, ac os oes yna ymchwil a data a fydd yn ein helpu, buaswn yn falch iawn o'u gweld.

Yr Ardoll Cig Coch
The Red Meat Levy

5. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u cael gyda Hybu Cig Cymru mewn perthynas â'r ardoll cig coch? OAQ54033

5. What discussions has the Minister had with Meat Promotion Wales in relation to the red meat levy? OAQ54033

Thank you. I have regular discussions with Hybu Cig Cymru and also Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Ministers to resolve the long-standing issue of repatriation of red meat levy. As a result of this, primary powers are now included within the UK Agriculture Bill and the levy bodies have developed initial proposals for the scheme's introduction.

Diolch. Rwy'n cael trafodaethau rheolaidd gyda Hybu Cig Cymru a hefyd Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig er mwyn datrys problem hirsefydlog ailwladoli'r ardoll cig coch. O ganlyniad i hyn, mae pwerau sylfaenol bellach wedi'u cynnwys ym Mil Amaethyddiaeth y DU ac mae'r cyrff ardollau wedi datblygu cynigion cychwynnol ar gyfer cyflwyno'r cynllun.

Thank you, Minister, for that, and I'm very pleased to see a successful outcome of those negotiations and the passage of the Agriculture Bill at Westminster, obviously, with the transfer of these responsibilities coming here to Cardiff.

Will the Minister confirm that she won't use any uplift in levy income to make up any shortfall in Welsh Government funding that might occur in the future, and, actually, any additional money that goes to Meat Promotion Wales will be new money that's available to the promotion body to promote red meat sales either here in Wales, the UK, or across the world?

Diolch, Weinidog, ac rwy'n falch iawn o weld canlyniad llwyddiannus i'r trafodaethau hynny ac i hynt y Bil Amaethyddiaeth yn San Steffan wrth gwrs, wrth i'r cyfrifoldebau hyn gael eu trosglwyddo yma i Gaerdydd.

A wnaiff y Gweinidog gadarnhau na fydd yn defnyddio unrhyw godiad yn yr incwm o'r ardoll i wneud iawn am unrhyw ddiffyg yng nghyllid Llywodraeth Cymru a allai ddigwydd yn y dyfodol, ac mewn gwirionedd, y bydd unrhyw arian ychwanegol sy'n mynd i Hybu Cig Cymru yn arian newydd sydd ar gael i'r corff hyrwyddo ar gyfer hybu gwerthiant cig coch naill ai yma yng Nghymru, y DU, neu ar draws y byd?

Well, the UK agri Bill is a little bit stuck at the moment in London. I do understand the reasons why—they're awaiting a date for debate. I too was very pleased with the outcome of my discussions with the Secretary of State. I thought it was very important it had a Government amendment, so I am very pleased at that.

Obviously we need to look at what funding comes; I certainly don't think that HCC and others would allow that to happen, but, clearly, we need to get those powers in the first place. My officials have been having initial discussions with DEFRA officials about how we implement—well, how we draft the scheme first of all. We need to get the scheme right and then implement it. I'll be very happy to keep Members updated on this because this has been dragging on for far too many years.

Wel, mae Bil amaeth y DU wedi dod i stop braidd yn Llundain ar hyn o bryd. Rwy'n deall y rhesymau pam—maent yn aros am ddyddiad ar gyfer dadl. Roeddwn innau hefyd yn falch iawn ynglŷn â chanlyniad fy nhrafodaethau â'r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol. Roeddwn yn meddwl ei bod yn bwysig iawn cael gwelliant gan y Llywodraeth, felly rwy'n falch iawn o hynny.

Yn amlwg, mae angen inni edrych ar ba arian a fydd yn dod; yn sicr, nid wyf yn credu y byddai HCC ac eraill yn caniatáu i hynny ddigwydd, ond yn amlwg, mae angen inni gael y pwerau hynny yn y lle cyntaf. Mae fy swyddogion wedi bod yn cael trafodaethau cychwynnol gyda swyddogion DEFRA ynglŷn â sut y gweithredwn—wel, sut y drafftiwn y cynllun yn gyntaf oll. Mae angen inni gael y cynllun yn iawn ac yna ei weithredu. Byddaf yn hapus iawn i roi'r newyddion diweddaraf i'r Aelodau am hyn oherwydd mae wedi bod yn llusgo yn ei flaen ers llawer gormod o flynyddoedd.

Carrying on with that scheme, Minister, I can see from the headlines yesterday about the Vice-Premier visiting Wales, and there is scope to open up our beef market to China, as Andrew R.T. has just stated. Can you give an indication as to the nature of any conversations previously that you've had with him, and also how will you assist the Welsh beef sector in preparing to take advantage of these opportunities?

I barhau gyda'r cynllun hwnnw, Weinidog, gallaf weld o'r penawdau ddoe am yr Is-Bennaeth yn ymweld â Chymru, ac mae lle i agor ein marchnad gig eidion i Tsieina, fel y mae Andrew R.T. newydd ei ddweud. A allwch roi syniad inni o natur unrhyw sgyrsiau a gawsoch gydag ef o'r blaen, a sut y byddwch yn helpu sector cig eidion Cymru i baratoi i fanteisio ar y cyfleoedd hyn?

Well, certainly, the Vice-Premier from China made the announcement around the opening up of the beef imports into China. I had a discussion with him about lamb as well, because I think it's very important that we have both of those going into China. I hadn't had any discussions directly with him before yesterday or today; I've met with him again this morning. I think it's very important, certainly, that, the two farms that we took the delegation to visit, the farmers were very keen that these conversations are ongoing and that we build on the relationship that we've already started now.

Wel, yn sicr, gwnaeth yr Is-Bennaeth o Tsieina y cyhoeddiad ynghylch agor y mewnforion cig eidion i Tsieina. Cefais drafodaeth gydag ef am gig oen hefyd, oherwydd credaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn fod gennym y ddau'n mynd i mewn i Tsieina. Nid oeddwn wedi cael unrhyw drafodaethau'n uniongyrchol ag ef cyn ddoe neu heddiw; cyfarfûm ag ef eto y bore yma. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn, yn sicr, fod y ddwy fferm yr aethom â'r ddirprwyaeth i ymweld â hwy yn frwd iawn fod y sgyrsiau hyn yn parhau a'n bod yn adeiladu yn awr ar y berthynas rydym eisoes wedi'i dechrau.

Cynllun y Taliad Sylfaenol
Basic Payment Scheme

6. A wnaiff y Gweinidog amlinellu'r camau a gymerir i gwblhau gweddill taliadau Cynllun y Taliad Sylfaenol? OAQ54056

6. Will the Minister outline the actions taken to complete outstanding Basic Payment Scheme payments? OAQ54056

Thank you. Over 99 per cent of Welsh farmers have received their BPS payments, well in excess of the 95 per cent requirement set in EU rules. One hundred and fifty-three farms are still to complete necessary checks before final payment can be made, and 112 of these have already received loan payments.

Diolch. Mae dros 99 y cant o ffermwyr Cymru wedi derbyn eu taliadau cynllun y taliad sylfaenol, sydd ymhell uwchlaw'r gofyniad o 95 y cant a nodir yn rheolau'r UE. Mae 153 o ffermydd yn dal i fod heb gwblhau'r gwiriadau angenrheidiol cyn y gellir gwneud y taliad terfynol, ac mae 112 o'r rhain eisoes wedi derbyn taliadau benthyciad.

Thank you, Minister. That's actually quite a heartening response because, when I last put WAQs in very recently about this, there were 229 claims that had been awaiting completion since December. So, as you'll be aware, National Farmers Union Cymru have been active in promoting the fact that for every £1 spent in promoting the fact—sorry, for every £1 invested in farm support in the UK, farming delivers £7.40 back to the local economy. So, clearly, the—. How many did you say, sorry, again? One hundred and fifty—?

Diolch yn fawr, Weinidog. Mae hwnnw'n ymateb eithaf calonogol mewn gwirionedd, oherwydd pan gyflwynais gwestiwn Cynulliad ar hyn yn ddiweddar iawn, roedd 229 o hawliadau wedi bod yn aros i'w cwblhau ers mis Rhagfyr. Felly, fel y gwyddoch, mae Undeb Cenedlaethol Amaethwyr Cymru wedi bod yn weithgar yn hyrwyddo'r ffaith, am bob £1 a werir ar hyrwyddo'r ffaith—mae'n ddrwg gennyf, am bob £1 a fuddsoddir mewn cymorth i ffermydd yn y DU, mae ffermio'n rhoi £7.40 yn ôl i'r economi leol. Felly, mae'n amlwg fod—. Faint a ddywedoch chi eto, mae'n ddrwg gennyf? Cant pum deg—?

One hundred and fifty-three farms are still to complete.

Mae 153 o ffermydd yn dal heb gwblhau.

14:00

Yes. So, the wider agricultural sector and rural communities will be losing out also, as well as the farmers themselves. We know that land changes discovered at inspections and alterations to customer details are actually causing delays, and that has been explained to us, but really, all I would ask—. Because I do have farmers in my constituency, who, frankly, struggle. So, there is no excuse, really, for unnecessary payment delays. So, will you set a target for addressing these so that farmers across Wales receive the money that they are, in fact, duly owed?

Iawn. Felly, bydd y sector amaethyddol ehangach a chymunedau gwledig ar eu colled hefyd, yn ogystal â'r ffermwyr eu hunain. Gwyddom fod newidiadau i dir a ddarganfuwyd mewn arolygiadau a newidiadau i fanylion cwsmeriaid yn achosi oedi, ac eglurwyd hynny i ni, ond mewn gwirionedd, yr unig beth y buaswn yn ei ofyn—. Oherwydd mae gennyf ffermwyr yn fy etholaeth sy'n ei chael hi’n anodd a dweud y gwir. Felly, nid oes esgus, mewn gwirionedd, am oedi diangen wrth dalu. Felly, a wnewch chi osod targed ar gyfer mynd i'r afael â'r rhain fel bod ffermwyr ledled Cymru yn cael yr arian sy’n ddyledus iddynt?

Well, I don't think it's 'quite heartening'; I think it's very heartening—99 per cent of Welsh farm businesses have received a full 2018 BPS payment. Nothing is late; we have until 30 June. And I really want to pay tribute to my officials who work within Rural Payments Wales that they've achieved that. It's the best in the UK. If you look at other parts of the UK, we've exceeded every other country and, as I say, we've exceeded the EC target. It would be great if everybody could be paid by 30 June and then nobody will be late. I mentioned that there were 153 farms still to complete. Some of the ones that are outstanding are very complex, and that's the reason why they haven't been paid. Some of the issues that do prevent the final claims being paid are, for instance, land changes, and they're often discovered at inspections. Sometimes, there are just changes to customer details that we weren't aware of, and there are ongoing land queries and disputes. My officials are making every effort to process the outstanding claims as soon as possible.

Wel, ni chredaf fod hyn yn ‘eithaf calonogol'; credaf fod hyn yn galonogol iawn—mae 99 y cant o fusnesau fferm Cymru wedi cael taliad Cynllun y Taliad Sylfaenol llawn ar gyfer 2018. Nid oes unrhyw beth yn hwyr; mae gennym tan 30 Mehefin. A hoffwn dalu teyrnged i fy swyddogion sy'n gweithio yn Taliadau Gwledig Cymru am gyflawni hynny. Dyma'r gorau yn y DU. Os edrychwch ar rannau eraill o'r DU, rydym wedi rhagori ar bob gwlad arall ac fel y dywedaf, rydym wedi rhagori ar darged y CE. Byddai'n wych pe gellid talu pawb erbyn 30 Mehefin ac yna ni fydd unrhyw un yn hwyr. Soniais fod 153 o ffermydd yn dal heb gwblhau. Mae rhai o'r rhai sydd heb gwblhau yn gymhleth iawn, a dyna'r rheswm pam nad ydynt wedi cael eu talu. Mae rhai o'r materion sy'n atal yr hawliadau terfynol rhag cael eu talu, er enghraifft, yn cynnwys newidiadau i'r tir, ac fe'u darganfyddir yn aml mewn arolygiadau. Weithiau, gwnaed newidiadau i fanylion cwsmeriaid nad oeddem yn ymwybodol ohonynt, ac mae ymholiadau tir ac anghydfodau tir ar y gweill. Felly, mae fy swyddogion yn gwneud pob ymdrech i brosesu'r hawliadau sydd heb eu cwblhau cyn gynted â phosibl.

Reoleiddio Sefydliadau Ailgartrefu Anifeiliaid
The Regulation of Animal Rehoming Organisations

7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am reoleiddio sefydliadau ailgartrefu anifeiliaid yng Nghymru? OAQ54059

7. Will the Minister make a statement on the regulation of animal rehoming organisations in Wales? OAQ54059

We are working with the Animal Welfare Network for Wales and other key stakeholders on voluntary guidance for sanctuaries, to be published later this year. We will seek to better regulate sanctuaries and work with our counterparts in other administrations to ensure a cohesive approach.

Rydym yn gweithio gyda Rhwydwaith Lles Anifeiliaid Cymru a rhanddeiliaid allweddol eraill ar ganllawiau gwirfoddol ar gyfer llochesau, i'w cyhoeddi yn ddiweddarach eleni. Byddwn yn ceisio rheoleiddio llochesau yn well ac yn gweithio gyda'n swyddogion cyfatebol mewn gweinyddiaethau eraill i sicrhau dull cydlynus.

I thank you for your answer. I do welcome that the Welsh Government are intending to run a pilot scheme to explore how a voluntary code of practice for the rescue and rehoming centres and sanctuaries could be introduced. It's certainly a step in the right direction. But currently, as things stand, anyone can set up an animal sanctuary or a rehoming centre. There's no legislation in place to prevent that happening. Whilst I'm sure that most of those will have high standards of animal welfare, it is concerning to know that there is equally, therefore, no obligation on local authorities to inspect premises or to ensure the needs of the animals are being met. And we all know that people can and do get overwhelmed by good intentions. So, that, I find concerning. My question is fairly obvious, then: when can we expect the Welsh Government to consider introducing statutory regulations of rehoming organisations and animal sanctuaries to improve the welfare of the animals and also the working conditions that people might find themselves under?

Diolch am eich ateb. Croesawaf y ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwriadu cynnal cynllun peilot i archwilio sut y gellid cyflwyno cod ymarfer gwirfoddol ar gyfer y canolfannau achub ac ailgartrefu a llochesau. Mae'n sicr yn gam i'r cyfeiriad cywir. Ond ar hyn o bryd, fel y mae pethau, gall unrhyw un sefydlu lloches anifeiliaid neu ganolfan ailgartrefu. Nid oes unrhyw ddeddfwriaeth ar waith i atal hynny rhag digwydd. Er fy mod yn siŵr y bydd gan y rhan fwyaf ohonynt safonau uchel o ran lles anifeiliaid, mae'n achos pryder nad oes, felly, ar y llaw arall, unrhyw rwymedigaeth ar awdurdodau lleol i archwilio adeiladau neu i sicrhau bod anghenion yr anifeiliaid yn cael eu diwallu. A gŵyr pob un ohonom fod pobl yn gallu cael, ac yn cael eu gorlethu gan fwriadau da. Felly, mae hynny'n peri pryder i mi. Mae fy nghwestiwn yn eithaf amlwg, felly: pryd y gallwn ddisgwyl i Lywodraeth Cymru ystyried cyflwyno rheoliadau statudol ar gyfer sefydliadau ailgartrefu a llochesau anifeiliaid i wella lles yr anifeiliaid yn ogystal â’r amodau gwaith y gall pobl eu hwynebu?

Thank you, Joyce. You certainly raise a very important point, and I definitely want to better regulate sanctuaries. I mentioned that we've been working with other administrations. You might be aware that the Scottish Government went out to consultation and they've been very helpful to us in sharing the responses to that consultation. And also, you'll be aware of the third-party sales of puppies and kittens. We've just been out to consultation and I'm going to produce the responses to that consultation probably in early August. I think that could also have an effect on what changes we do make to sanctuaries.

In relation to the code of practice, I have been working very closely with the Animal Welfare Network Wales group on the development of that voluntary code of practice that you referred to, and that will be produced later this year. I think we need to look at all the different pieces of legislation. You'll be aware that I'm bringing in a licensing scheme on mobile animal exhibits, for instance. So, I think we need to look at all the different schemes that we're bringing together, improving the codes of practice on specific animals, and decide then on what we further need to do.

Diolch yn fawr, Joyce. Yn sicr, rydych yn codi pwynt pwysig iawn, ac yn bendant, rwy’n awyddus i reoleiddio llochesau'n well. Soniais ein bod wedi bod yn gweithio gyda gweinyddiaethau eraill. Efallai eich bod yn ymwybodol fod Llywodraeth yr Alban wedi cynnal ymgynghoriad a’u bod wedi bod o gymorth i ni drwy rannu'r ymatebion i'r ymgynghoriad hwnnw. A hefyd, fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol o werthiannau cŵn a chathod bach gan drydydd partïon. Rydym newydd gynnal ymgynghoriad, a byddaf yn cynhyrchu'r ymatebion i’r ymgynghoriad hwnnw yn gynnar ym mis Awst, yn ôl pob tebyg, a chredaf y gallai hynny hefyd gael effaith ar ba newidiadau a wnawn i lochesau.

O ran y cod ymarfer, rwyf wedi bod yn gweithio'n agos iawn gyda grŵp Rhwydwaith Lles Anifeiliaid Cymru ar ddatblygu'r cod ymarfer gwirfoddol hwnnw y cyfeirioch chi ato, a bydd hwnnw’n cael ei gynhyrchu yn ddiweddarach eleni. Credaf fod angen inni edrych ar bob deddf wahanol. Byddwch yn ymwybodol fy mod yn cyflwyno cynllun trwyddedu ar gyfer arddangosfeydd teithiol anifeiliaid, er enghraifft. Felly, credaf fod angen i ni edrych ar yr holl gynlluniau gwahanol rydym yn eu dwyn ynghyd, gan wella'r cod ymarfer ar gyfer anifeiliaid penodol, a phenderfynu wedyn beth arall fydd angen inni ei wneud.

In March last year, the Welsh Government announced its intention to develop a voluntary code of conduct for animal welfare sanctuaries and it's quite welcoming that you're going to bring that in towards the end of this year. But I'd like to echo the call from my colleague Joyce Watson AM: I think we need to go stronger than that. RSPCA Cymru has itself called for urgent regulation to stop the commonplace welfare issues presented by agencies operating without appropriate skills and resources. Currently, there are around 90 animal sanctuaries doing invaluable work to improve animal welfare across Wales. However, we do know of some registered sanctuaries operating under the radar where animal care standards fall short of desirable standards. Minister, can you explain what steps you are taking to move beyond guidance to introduce some robust regulation that will ensure animal welfare standards meet a suitable baseline criteria in all instances?

Ym mis Mawrth y llynedd, cyhoeddodd Llywodraeth Cymru ei bwriad i ddatblygu cod ymarfer gwirfoddol ar gyfer llochesau lles anifeiliaid ac mae'n eithaf calonogol y byddwch yn ei roi ar waith tua diwedd eleni. Ond hoffwn adleisio galwad gan fy nghydweithiwr, Joyce Watson AC: credaf fod angen inni wneud mwy na hynny. Mae RSPCA Cymru eu hunain wedi galw am reoleiddio brys i atal y problemau lles cyffredin sy'n deillio o asiantaethau sy'n gweithredu heb sgiliau ac adnoddau priodol. Ar hyn o bryd, mae oddeutu 90 o lochesau anifeiliaid yn gwneud gwaith hanfodol i wella lles anifeiliaid ledled Cymru. Fodd bynnag, gwyddom am rai llochesau cofrestredig sy'n gweithredu o dan y radar lle nad yw safonau gofal anifeiliaid yn cyrraedd y safonau dymunol. Weinidog, a allwch egluro pa gamau rydych yn eu cymryd i fynd ymhellach na chanllawiau er mwyn cyflwyno rheoliadau cadarn a fydd yn sicrhau bod safonau lles anifeiliaid yn bodloni meini prawf sylfaenol addas ym mhob achos?

14:05

I think I've set out what work we are doing at this current time in my answer to Joyce Watson. I was very interested to see the consultation responses from the Scottish Government in relation to whether we should go further. So, obviously, officials are considering the advice we've had from there, and I will be bringing forward the code of practice later on this year.

Credaf fy mod wedi nodi pa waith rydym yn ei wneud ar hyn o bryd yn fy ateb i Joyce Watson. Roedd gennyf gryn ddiddordeb mewn gweld yr ymatebion i'r ymgynghoriad gan Lywodraeth yr Alban i weld a ddylem fynd ymhellach. Felly, yn amlwg, mae swyddogion yn ystyried y cyngor rydym wedi'i gael oddi yno, a byddaf yn cyflwyno'r cod ymarfer yn ddiweddarach eleni.

Y Grant Busnes i Ffermydd
The Farm Business Grant

8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am y grant busnes i ffermydd? OAQ54071

8. Will the Minister make a statement on the farm business grant? OAQ54071

Diolch. The farm business grant is one of the Welsh Government’s 'Taking Wales Forward' commitments. To date, 2,970 farmers have had applications to the farm business grant approved, worth £20.6 million of support. This on-farm investment supports the improvement of the technical and financial performance of farm businesses in Wales.

Diolch. Mae'r grant busnes i ffermydd yn un o ymrwymiadau 'Symud Cymru Ymlaen' Llywodraeth Cymru. Hyd yma, mae ceisiadau 2,970 o ffermwyr am y grant busnes i ffermydd wedi cael eu derbyn, sy'n werth £20.6 miliwn o gymorth. Mae'r buddsoddiad ar y fferm hwn yn cefnogi'r broses o wella perfformiad technegol ac ariannol busnesau fferm yng Nghymru.

Diolch. Mi fu Undeb Amaethwyr Cymru mewn cyswllt efo fi ar ran un o'i aelodau ychydig fisoedd yn ôl, am fod cais etholwr am grant wedi methu oherwydd ei fod o wedi peidio â darparu llythyr gan ei gyfrifydd i gadarnhau bod trosiant ei fusnes o dan £1 miliwn. Mi ddylwn i ddweud bod ei drosiant o ymhell dan £1 miliwn ac mi ddylwn i ychwanegu bod bron pob ffermwr yng Nghymru â throsiant o dan £1 miliwn. Ond mi oedd y penderfyniad yma'n golygu ei fod o wedi colli £5,000 er ei fod o wedi darparu llythyr unwaith y daeth yn hysbys bod angen iddo fo wneud hynny. Mi apeliais i'n uniongyrchol atoch chi—diolch am eich ymateb chi—ac mae swyddogion erbyn hyn wedi addasu blaen y llythyr yn y pecyn cais er mwyn amlygu'r angen am y dystiolaeth yma. Dwi'n croesawu hynny, ond, wrth gwrs, mae hynny'n awgrymu i fi, fel dwi'n gwybod sy'n wir, nad oedd o'n ddigon clir bod angen cynnwys y llythyr cyfrifydd yna. Dwi'n deall bod sawl achos tebyg arall dros Gymru wedi dod i'r amlwg erbyn hyn, efo cyfartaledd o golled o thua £5,500, sydd yn swm sylweddol i fferm fach. Yn ôl eich ffigurau chi, dim ond un ym mhob 100 o ffermydd Cymru sydd â throsiant dros £1 miliwn. Oni ddylech chi felly edrych eto ar y mater yma, gan ei fod o'n amlwg yn broblem mwy cyffredin na dim ond fy etholwr i? Dwi am ichi edrych eto ar y ceisiadau sydd wedi cael eu gwrthod am y rheswm yma, ac mi fyddwn i'n gwerthfawrogi pe gallech chi ddweud wrthym ni faint o geisiadau sydd wedi eu colli am y rheswm yma.

Thank you. The Farmers Union of Wales contacted me on behalf of one of their members a few weeks ago because an application from a constituent for a grant had failed because he'd failed to provide a letter from his accountant to confirm that the turnover of his business was below £1 million. Now, I should say that his turnover is way below £1 million, and I should add that virtually every farmer in Wales has a turnover of less than £1 million. But the decision meant that he had lost out on £5,000, despite having provided a letter once it became known that that was a requirement. I appealed directly to you—thank you for your response—and officials have now changed the letter in the application pack to highlight the need for this evidence. I welcome that, but that does suggest to me, as I know is the case, that it wasn't sufficiently clear that this accountant’s letter needed to be included in the first place. I do understand that there are many similar cases across Wales that have now emerged, with an average loss around £5,500, which is a significant sum for small farms. According to your own figures, only one in 100 farms in Wales has a turnover of over £1 million. Shouldn't you therefore review this issue, as it is clearly a more general problem than just affecting my constituent? I want you to look again at the applications that have been rejected for this reason and I would appreciate it if you could tell us how many applications have lost out because of this reason.

Thank you. Obviously, I am aware of your constituent. As you say, you and I corresponded, and also the FUW and I corresponded. You'll be aware I'm unable to comment on that specific one due to the appeals process. I think the farm business grant was very well received. The idea was that we made it as simple and easy as possible to use for ourselves and also for applicants. There is a small number of people whose applications were unsuccessful, and I will certainly—. I thought I had the figure here, actually, but I can't find it at the current time. But I think it is—. Oh, sorry; 688 businesses were written to retrospectively to request an accountant's letter, and fewer than 1 per cent of beneficiaries had payments recovered as they failed to provide an accountant's letter before the deadline. But I think you're right; it needs to be very much upfront, and we certainly have reviewed that, and, as you say, we have changed that. I'm very happy to look, if we can review the applications—I don't know if it's too late. But you will appreciate we obviously are audited and we have to make sure it is effective use of public money and we have to have some criteria. But we have tried to make it as simple as possible.

Diolch. Yn amlwg, rwy'n gwybod am eich etholwr. Fel y dywedwch, rydych chi a minnau wedi gohebu, ac mae'r FUW a minnau wedi gohebu. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol na allaf roi sylwadau ar yr achos penodol hwnnw oherwydd y broses apelio. Credaf fod y grant busnes i ffermydd wedi cael croeso mawr. Y syniad oedd ein bod wedi ei wneud mor syml a hawdd â phosibl i'w ddefnyddio ar ein cyfer ni ein hunain ac ar gyfer ymgeiswyr. Bu ceisiadau nifer fach o bobl yn aflwyddiannus, ac yn sicr, byddaf—. Roeddwn yn credu bod y ffigur yma gennyf, ond ni allaf ddod o hyd iddo ar hyn o bryd. Ond credaf ei fod—. O, mae'n ddrwg gennyf; ysgrifennwyd at 688 o fusnesau ar ôl iddynt wneud ceisiadau i ofyn am lythyr cyfrifydd, a chymerwyd taliadau llai nag 1 y cant o fuddiolwyr yn ôl am eu bod wedi methu â darparu llythyr cyfrifydd cyn y dyddiad cau. Ond credaf eich bod yn llygad eich lle; mae angen i hyn fod yn amlwg iawn, ac yn sicr, rydym wedi adolygu hynny, ac fel y dywedwch, rydym wedi newid hynny. Rwy'n fwy na pharod i edrych, os gallwn adolygu'r ceisiadau—nid wyf yn gwybod a yw'n rhy hwyr. Ond fe fyddwch yn deall wrth gwrs ein bod yn cael ein harchwilio ac mae'n rhaid i ni sicrhau bod hyn yn ddefnydd effeithiol o arian cyhoeddus ac mae'n rhaid inni gael rhai meini prawf. Ond rydym wedi ceisio sicrhau ei fod mor syml â phosibl.

I declare an interest, obviously, being a partner in a farming business. Minister, one of the things that is so frustrating, very often, is the complexity around, in particular, the woodland grant schemes that have been made available. Given that there's been much conversation in this Chamber tonight—this afternoon, I should say—about increasing woodland uptake, can you commit the department to look at how that scheme could be simplified to make it far quicker in its turnaround of applications so that it does encourage greater participation rates? I know you opened a new window back in April for this, and I appreciate it's public money and the auditing and the accountability have to be robust, but when businesses have small windows to, obviously, plant up trees, they need to have confidence that the grants they're applying for can be turned around in a timely manner. Certainly, I've had constituents coming to me saying it's very cumbersome, it's very bureaucratic, and it puts them off actually applying.

Rwy'n datgan buddiant, yn amlwg, gan fy mod yn bartner mewn busnes ffermio. Weinidog, un o'r pethau sydd mor rhwystredig, yn aml iawn, yw'r cymhlethdod, yn benodol, ynghylch y cynlluniau grantiau coetir sydd ar gael. O ystyried bod llawer o drafod wedi bod yn y Siambr hon heno—y prynhawn yma, dylwn ddweud—ynglŷn â chynyddu'r defnydd o goetiroedd, a allwch ymrwymo'r adran i edrych ar sut y gellid symleiddio'r cynllun hwnnw er mwyn ei wneud yn llawer cyflymach o ran prosesu ceisiadau fel ei fod yn annog mwy o gyfranogiad? Gwn eich bod wedi agor cyfnod newydd yn ôl ym mis Ebrill ar gyfer hyn, ac rwy'n deall ei fod yn arian cyhoeddus a bod yn rhaid i'r archwilio a'r atebolrwydd fod yn gadarn, ond pan fydd gan fusnesau gyfnodau bach o amser, yn amlwg, ar gyfer plannu coed, mae angen iddynt fod yn hyderus y gellir prosesu'r grantiau y maent yn ymgeisio amdanynt yn brydlon. Yn sicr, mae etholwyr wedi dweud wrthyf fod y broses hon yn lletchwith iawn, yn fiwrocrataidd iawn, ac yn eu hatal rhag gwneud ceisiadau mewn gwirionedd.

14:10

You make a very good point. Obviously, this question was specifically about the farm business grant, and as I said in my answer to Rhun ap Iorwerth, the whole point of this scheme was that we made it as easy and simple as possible. I thought we really had succeeded with that. Clearly, the issue that Rhun raised shows that it wasn't quite as simple and easy as I would have hoped for. Certainly, other grants, now—we need to look at making them as easy and simple as possible. And if Brexit provides any opportunities, obviously as we have our own agricultural policy and we're revising the payments system, I think it's certainly something that we can look at. Because as you say, if it's a very small window at a particularly busy time of year, we need to ensure that everybody can apply for it as simply as possible. I'm glad that you echoed the point I made around the most effective use of public money.

Rydych yn gwneud pwynt da iawn. Yn amlwg, roedd y cwestiwn hwn yn ymwneud yn benodol â'r grant busnes i ffermydd, ac fel y dywedais yn fy ateb i Rhun ap Iorwerth, holl bwynt y cynllun hwn oedd ein bod wedi sicrhau ei fod mor hawdd a syml â phosibl. Roeddwn o'r farn ein bod wedi llwyddo i wneud hynny. Yn amlwg, mae'r mater a godwyd gan Rhun yn dangos nad oedd mor syml a hawdd ag y buaswn wedi gobeithio. Yn sicr, o ran grantiau eraill, bellach—mae angen i ni edrych ar sicrhau eu bod mor hawdd a syml â phosibl. Ac os yw Brexit yn darparu unrhyw gyfleoedd, yn amlwg, gan fod gennym ein polisi amaethyddol ein hunain ac rydym yn diwygio'r system daliadau, credaf fod hynny'n sicr yn rhywbeth y gallwn edrych arno. Oherwydd fel y dywedwch, os yw'n gyfnod bach iawn ar adeg brysur iawn o'r flwyddyn, mae angen i ni sicrhau y gall pawb ymgeisio amdano mor syml â phosibl. Rwy'n falch eich bod wedi adleisio'r pwynt a wneuthum o ran y defnydd mwyaf effeithiol o arian cyhoeddus.

Lleihau Llygredd Aer
Reducing Air Pollution

9. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n eu cymryd i leihau llygredd aer? OAQ54068

9. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to reduce air pollution? OAQ54068

Thank you. Tackling air pollution across Wales remains a top priority for Welsh Government. In my statement on clear air yesterday, I highlighted actions across Government and a range of sectors to improve air quality. These will be set out in our clean air plan, which I intend to consult on this autumn.

Diolch. Mae mynd i'r afael â llygredd aer ledled Cymru yn parhau i fod yn brif flaenoriaeth i Lywodraeth Cymru. Yn fy natganiad ar aer glân ddoe, tynnais sylw at gamau gweithredu ar draws y Llywodraeth ac ystod o sectorau i wella ansawdd aer. Bydd y rhain yn cael eu nodi yn y cynllun aer glân y bwriadaf ymgynghori yn eu gylch yn yr hydref.

Thank you, Minister. I welcome your statement on clean air yesterday and Welsh Government's commitment to bring forward a clean air Act. Caerleon is one of 11 designated air quality management areas within Newport. The high volume of traffic that pours out onto the narrow streets is regularly forced to a halt due to constrictions and congestion in the road system. Sites of archaeological importance mean that there is very little scope to alter the layout of the local road network, and many HGVs use the road in Caerleon as a throughway. Caerleon Civic Society is looking to work with the local authority to take action on improving air quality in the area. Can the Minister outline whether the clean air Act will make provision for engagement with communities looking to improve air quality?

Diolch, Weinidog. Rwy'n croesawu eich datganiad ar aer glân ddoe ac ymrwymiad Llywodraeth Cymru i gyflwyno Deddf aer glân. Mae Caerllion yn un o 11 ardal ddynodedig ar gyfer rheoli ansawdd aer yng Nghasnewydd. Mae'r holl draffig sy'n llifo allan ar y strydoedd cul yn aml yn cael ei orfodi i stopio oherwydd cyfyngiadau a thagfeydd yn y system ffyrdd. Mae safleoedd o bwysigrwydd archeolegol yn golygu nad oes fawr o gyfle i newid cynllun y rhwydwaith ffyrdd lleol, ac mae llawer o gerbydau nwyddau trwm yn defnyddio'r ffordd yng Nghaerllion fel ffordd drwodd. Mae Cymdeithas Ddinesig Caerllion yn bwriadu gweithio gyda'r awdurdod lleol i roi camau gweithredu ar waith ar wella ansawdd aer yn yr ardal. A all y Gweinidog ddweud a fydd y Ddeddf aer glân yn darparu ar gyfer ymgysylltu â chymunedau sy'n ceisio gwella ansawdd aer?

Well, I certainly think it would have to. As I mentioned in the statement yesterday, we'll use the clean air plan to then see what proposals we think we need to bring forward for the clean air Act. But certainly, I think working with communities is absolutely vital in any areas that we're trying to improve, and I do hope Newport City Council certainly work with them when they're looking at their local air quality management and where they've got their site monitors, for instance. So, I do hope they'll work together.

Wel, yn sicr, credaf y byddai'n rhaid iddi wneud hynny. Fel y soniais yn y datganiad ddoe, byddwn yn defnyddio'r cynllun aer glân i weld pa gynigion y credwn fod angen i ni eu cyflwyno ar gyfer y Ddeddf aer glân. Ond yn sicr, credaf fod gweithio gyda chymunedau yn gwbl hanfodol mewn unrhyw ardaloedd rydym yn ceisio'u gwella, a gobeithio y bydd Cyngor Dinas Casnewydd, yn sicr, yn gweithio gyda hwy pan fyddant yn edrych ar eu dull o reoli ansawdd aer lleol a lle maent yn monitro'r safleoedd, er enghraifft. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio y byddant yn cydweithio.

Minister, it's Love Your Lungs Week, and I know you will wish to—[Interruption.] Here it is. I know we all wish to commend the British Lung Foundation's work. Indeed, we had our photograph taken outside the Senedd earlier when we were chatting about the need for a clean air Act. But can I tell you that it's also official that the quickest way to travel in Cardiff during the rush hour is by bike? A group of Cardiff councillors, volunteers and other campaigners raced by the various modes of transport to Cardiff castle. Actually, 'race' is perhaps an exaggeration for some of those modes. The bikes averaged nearly 12 mph, buses just over 6 mph, and bottom of all, cars—barely 5 mph. It's quite clear that active travel is one of the greatest ways to promote not only efficiency in terms of commuter travel but also clean air, and I commend all those activities that promote these modes of transport.

Weinidog, mae'n Wythnos Carwch Eich Ysgyfaint, a gwn y byddwch yn dymuno—[Torri ar draws.] Dyma ni. Gwn fod pob un ohonom yn dymuno canmol gwaith Sefydliad Prydeinig yr Ysgyfaint. Yn wir, cawsom dynnu ein llun y tu allan i'r Senedd yn gynharach pan oeddem yn sgwrsio am yr angen am Ddeddf aer glân. Ond a gaf fi ddweud wrthych ei bod hefyd yn swyddogol mai'r ffordd gyflymaf o deithio yng Nghaerdydd yn ystod oriau brig yw ar feic? Cafodd grŵp o gynghorwyr Caerdydd, gwirfoddolwyr ac ymgyrchwyr eraill ras drwy ddefnyddio'r gwahanol ddulliau o deithio i gastell Caerdydd. Mewn gwirionedd, efallai bod 'ras' yn or-ddweud ar gyfer rhai o'r dulliau hynny. Roedd y beiciau yn teithio ar gyfartaledd o bron i 12 mya, bysiau ychydig dros 6 mya, ac ar y gwaelod, ceir—prin 5 mya. Mae'n amlwg iawn mai teithio llesol yw un o'r ffyrdd gorau o hyrwyddo nid yn unig effeithlonrwydd o ran teithiau cymudo ond hefyd aer glân, ac rwy'n cymeradwyo'r holl weithgareddau sy'n hyrwyddo'r dulliau hyn o deithio.

Thank you. Certainly, I'm very happy that the British Lung Foundation have brought forward their week. It's also—I'm going to give a plug—Clean Air Day tomorrow; I think we should all think about something that we can do to promote that. The Welsh Government has given £30 million to local authorities in relation to active travel, and I certainly commend Cardiff council. I think they're bringing forward really good schemes around cycling, and I've certainly seen said councillors whizzing around on bikes many times.

Diolch. Yn sicr, rwy'n hapus iawn fod Sefydliad Prydeinig yr Ysgyfaint wedi cynnal eu hwythnos. Mae hi hefyd—rwyf am roi hys-bys i hyn—yn Ddiwrnod Aer Glân yfory; credaf y dylai pob un feddwl am rywbeth y gallwn ei wneud i'w hyrwyddo. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi rhoi £30 miliwn i awdurdodau lleol mewn perthynas â theithio llesol, ac yn sicr, rwy'n cymeradwyo cyngor Caerdydd. Credaf eu bod yn cyflwyno cynlluniau da iawn mewn perthynas â beicio, ac yn sicr, rwyf wedi gweld y cynghorwyr hynny'n gwibio o gwmpas y lle ar feiciau sawl tro.

Minister, one of the most congested and polluted areas is of course the A470, and of course there are measures in place there to try, as an interim measure, to control the degree of pollution there by restricting traffic speeds and so on. But of course there are a number of variable speeds along that area. There seems to be a considerable degree of breaching of those speeds. So, any monitoring that is taking place is going to be very adversely affected by, effectively, the breach of the measures that has taken place. I wonder what discussions you've had, or could have, with perhaps the Minister for Economy and Transport over ensuring that there was proper evaluation and monitoring of that process, and perhaps even a simplification of the rather complex changes of speed that take place along that particular area. I have written to the Minister for Economy and Transport. You will not have seen that, but it does seem to me that it's a matter that directly impacts on your responsibilities in terms of air pollution. 

Weinidog, wrth gwrs, un o'r ardaloedd mwyaf prysur a llygredig yw'r A470, ac wrth gwrs, mae camau ar waith, fel mesur dros dro, i geisio rheoli faint o lygredd sydd yno drwy gyfyngu ar gyflymder traffig ac ati. Ond wrth gwrs, mae yna nifer o gyfyngiadau cyflymder amrywiol yn yr ardal honno. Ymddengys bod cryn dipyn o yrwyr yn torri'r cyfyngiadau cyflymder hynny. Felly, bydd unrhyw waith monitro sy'n mynd rhagddo'n cael ei effeithio'n andwyol iawn i bob pwrpas, wrth i'r cyfyngiadau a roddwyd ar waith gael eu torri. Tybed pa drafodaethau rydych wedi'u cael, neu y gallech fod eu cael, gyda Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth, efallai, ynglŷn â sicrhau bod y broses honno'n cael ei gwerthuso a'i monitro'n iawn, ac efallai hyd yn oed symleiddio'r newidiadau cyflymder eithaf cymhleth yn yr ardal benodol honno. Rwyf wedi ysgrifennu at Weinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth. Ni fyddwch wedi gweld hynny, ond ymddengys i mi ei fod yn fater sy'n effeithio'n uniongyrchol ar eich cyfrifoldebau o ran llygredd aer.

14:15

Thank you. As I made clear yesterday in the oral statement, road transport certainly contributes to the quality of our air, more than probably any other sector. I have had many discussions and meetings with my colleague the Minister for Economy and Transport, and I think that my officials and transport officials probably meet at least weekly, if not more often, to discuss this.

Again, yesterday, I talked about the need for better signage at the pilot sites—the five sites that we've had with the 50 mph—across Wales, because people clearly don't understand why those variable speeds have been brought in. They don't realise that it's for carbon emission reduction. They think that it is perhaps for speed calming.

Clearly, we are having mixed responses to those sites, and officials are going to report on the effectiveness of them, probably late summer or early autumn, to me. But, I mentioned yesterday that I have made the sites—or the Minister for Economy and Transport will be making the sites—permanent from the middle of July. We are having a look also—. We will have a full 12 months' worth of data by the end of this month to look at, and I think that that will then better advise us going forward.

Diolch. Fel y dywedais yn glir ddoe yn y datganiad llafar, mae trafnidiaeth ffyrdd yn sicr yn cyfrannu at ansawdd ein haer, yn fwy nag unrhyw sector arall yn ôl pob tebyg. Rwyf wedi cael llawer o drafodaethau a chyfarfodydd gyda fy nghyd-Aelod, Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth, a chredaf fod fy swyddogion a'r swyddogion trafnidiaeth yn cyfarfod o leiaf yn wythnosol, mae'n debyg, os nad yn amlach, i drafod hyn.

Unwaith eto, ddoe, soniais am yr angen am well arwyddion yn y safleoedd peilot—y pum safle rydym wedi'u cael gyda'r cyfyngiad 50 mya—ledled Cymru, oherwydd mae'n amlwg nad yw pobl yn deall pam fod y cyflymderau amrywiol wedi'u cyflwyno. Nid ydynt yn sylweddoli eu bod ar gyfer lleihau allyriadau carbon. Maent yn credu eu bod ar gyfer gostwng cyflymder o bosibl.

Yn amlwg, rydym yn cael ymatebion cymysg i'r safleoedd hynny, a bydd swyddogion yn adrodd ar eu heffeithiolrwydd, ddiwedd yr haf neu ddechrau'r hydref, mae'n debyg. Ond soniais ddoe fy mod wedi gwneud y safleoedd—neu bydd Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth yn gwneud y safleoedd—yn barhaol o ganol mis Gorffennaf. Rydym yn edrych hefyd—. Bydd gennym werth 12 mis llawn o ddata erbyn diwedd y mis hwn i edrych arno, a chredaf y bydd hynny wedyn yn ein cynghori'n well yn y dyfodol.

2. Cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol
2. Questions to the Minister for Housing and Local Government

Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol. Mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Helen Mary Jones.

The next item is questions to the Minister for Housing and Local Government. The first question is from Helen Mary Jones.

Gwella Ansawdd Tai
Improving the Quality of Housing

1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyllid a ddarparwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i wella ansawdd tai yng Nghymru? OAQ54050

1. Will the Minister make a statement on funding provided by the Welsh Government to improve the quality of housing in Wales? OAQ54050

Welsh Government provides £108 million each year to social landlords in the form of the major repairs allowance to councils and dowry gap funding to large-scale voluntary transfer housing associations. This is to ensure that everyone living in our 225,000 social homes in Wales will live in good-quality homes by December 2020.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n darparu £108 miliwn y flwyddyn i landlordiaid cymdeithasol ar ffurf y lwfans atgyweiriadau mawr i gynghorau a chyllid gwaddoli llenwi bwlch i gymdeithasau tai trosglwyddo gwirfoddol ar raddfa fawr. Mae hyn er mwyn sicrhau y bydd pawb sy'n byw yn ein 225,000 o gartrefi cymdeithasol yng Nghymru yn byw mewn cartrefi o ansawdd da erbyn Rhagfyr 2020.

I'm very grateful to the Minister for her answer. I'm sure that she would agree with me that it would be extremely unfortunate if Welsh Government funding from other sources inadvertently had a negative effect on housing quality in Wales. I have a number of constituents who have been having real difficulties with inappropriately sold or inappropriately installed cavity wall insulation. I know that this is a matter that has been raised on a number of occasions, recently by David Rees.

Obviously, this matter isn't directly in your portfolio, Minister, but it is having a real impact on the quality of the housing of some of my constituents, and I know of many others. What is unfortunate is that the evidence that is being sent to me is that the Cavity Insulation Guarantee Agency, which is supposed to put this right, is in fact being profoundly unhelpful. There is one particular case that I am going to write to the Minister for environment about because they are really just not responding and, when they are responding, they are offering to partly put the work right.

The particular family that prompted this question are not well-off people. They have worked very hard to be able to afford their own home. So, can I ask the Minister if you will, with your housing quality hat on, have a further conversation with the Minister for environment to see if there's any more that the Government can do to ensure that the guarantee agency is fit for purpose and that it responds in an appropriate, but also in a compassionate way to people who are dealing with really difficult damp problems in homes that they really had to struggle to purchase?

Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i'r Gweinidog am ei hateb. Rwy'n siŵr y byddai'n cytuno â mi y byddai'n anffodus iawn pe bai cyllid Llywodraeth Cymru o ffynonellau eraill yn cael effaith negyddol anfwriadol ar ansawdd tai yng Nghymru. Mae gennyf nifer o etholwyr sydd wedi bod yn cael anawsterau go iawn gyda deunydd inswleiddio waliau ceudod wedi'i werthu'n amhriodol neu wedi'i osod yn amhriodol. Gwn fod hwn yn fater sydd wedi cael ei godi droeon, a gan David Rees yn ddiweddar.

Yn amlwg, nid yw'r mater hwn yn rhan uniongyrchol o'ch portffolio, Weinidog, ond mae'n cael effaith wirioneddol ar ansawdd tai rhai o fy etholwyr, a gwn am lawer o rai eraill. Yr hyn sy'n anffodus yw mai'r dystiolaeth sy'n cael ei hanfon ataf yw bod yr Asiantaeth Gwarantau Inswleiddio Waliau Dwbl, sydd i fod i fynd i'r afael â hyn, yn fawr o gymorth mewn gwirionedd. Mae un achos penodol rwyf am ysgrifennu at Weinidog yr amgylchedd yn ei gylch gan nad ydynt yn ymateb, a phan fyddant yn ymateb, maent yn cynnig unioni'r gwaith yn rhannol yn unig.

Nid yw'r teulu penodol a ysgogodd y cwestiwn hwn yn bobl gefnog. Maent wedi gweithio'n galed iawn i allu fforddio eu cartref eu hunain. Felly, a gaf fi ofyn i'r Gweinidog a wnewch chi, gan wisgo'ch het ansawdd tai, gael sgwrs bellach gyda Gweinidog yr amgylchedd i weld a oes mwy y gall y Llywodraeth ei wneud i sicrhau bod yr asiantaeth warantu yn addas i'r diben, a'u bod yn ymateb mewn ffordd briodol, ond hefyd mewn modd tosturiol tuag at bobl sy'n wynebu problemau lleithder anodd iawn mewn cartrefi y bu'n rhaid iddynt ymdrechu'n galed iawn i'w prynu?

Yes, I'm happy to do that. If you send the details to the Minister for environment, we can, between us, look at the specific matter that you are dealing with. Actually, much more generally, we are about to receive the report of the decarbonisation of housing working group. They are looking at housing across the piece, not just social housing. So, we are expecting recommendations from them about a number of the things that you raised more generally in terms of the specific things there: so, the skills available to private home holders—sorry, private home owners; I got my tongue in a twist there—in Wales; the advice that they can receive about the best way to insulate their homes without causing some of the difficulties that you are talking about there; and whole issues around energy efficiency and condensation and such things. So, we're expecting that report imminently, and I am expecting to have a really good conversation across the Government and with the Assembly about how we can best implement some of the recommendations.

Rwy'n fwy na pharod i wneud hynny. Os anfonwch y manylion at Weinidog yr amgylchedd, rhwng y ddau ohonom, gallwn edrych ar y mater penodol rydych yn ymdrin ag ef. Mewn gwirionedd, yn llawer mwy cyffredinol, rydym ar fin derbyn adroddiad gan y gweithgor datgarboneiddio tai. Maent yn edrych ar dai yn gyffredinol, nid tai cymdeithasol yn unig. Felly, rydym yn disgwyl argymhellion ganddynt am nifer o'r pethau a godwyd gennych yn fwy cyffredinol o ran y pethau penodol yno: felly, y sgiliau sydd ar gael i ddeiliaid cartrefi preifat—mae'n ddrwg gennyf, perchnogion cartrefi preifat; baglais dros fy ngeiriau—yng Nghymru; y cyngor y gallant ei gael ynglŷn â'r ffordd orau o inswleiddio eu cartrefi heb achosi rhai o'r anawsterau y soniwch amdanynt; a materion ynghylch effeithlonrwydd ynni ac anwedd a phethau o'r fath. Felly, rydym yn disgwyl yr adroddiad hwnnw cyn bo hir, ac rwy'n disgwyl cael sgwrs dda iawn ar draws y Llywodraeth a chyda'r Cynulliad ynglŷn â'r ffordd orau o roi rhai o'r argymhellion ar waith.

Minister, earlier this year, my colleague here, David Melding, led a debate that recognised that the number of homes being built in Wales is inadequate to meet demand, and during the debate we all recognised that there was a shortage of social housing across Wales. But there is also a shortage of other types of homes that will attract younger, aspirational home owners to move to Wales. I understand that Shropshire, for example, the next county to my own constituency, has a more flexible planning policy that allows landowners to develop their land for executive level homes, therefore attracting younger professionals, including teachers, business people and doctors, which we desperately need, of course, in mid Wales, to move to Wales and set up home in Wales, to make a career and invest in the local economy. Can I ask what intentions you have to review planning guidance to give local authorities the flexibility to implement their planning policies in such a way that will ensure that the demand for these types of homes is met to encourage younger families and professionals into Powys and counties such as mine? Or, indeed, do you believe that local authorities don't need that flexibility because they've already got that flexibility, and no change to planning guidance is required?

Weinidog, yn gynharach eleni, arweiniodd fy nghyd-Aelod yma, David Melding, ddadl a oedd yn cydnabod bod nifer y cartrefi sy'n cael eu hadeiladu yng Nghymru yn annigonol i ateb y galw, ac yn ystod y ddadl, cydnabu pob un ohonom fod prinder tai cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Ond mae prinder hefyd o ran mathau eraill o gartrefi a fydd yn denu perchnogion tai iau, uchelgeisiol i symud i Gymru. Deallaf fod gan swydd Amwythig, er enghraifft, y sir wrth ymyl fy etholaeth fy hun, bolisi cynllunio mwy hyblyg sy'n caniatáu i dirfeddianwyr ddatblygu eu tir ar gyfer cartrefi dethol, gan ddenu gweithwyr proffesiynol iau, gan gynnwys athrawon, pobl fusnes a meddygon, y mae eu taer hangen yng nghanolbarth Cymru wrth gwrs, i symud i Gymru ac i ymgartrefu yng Nghymru, i ddilyn gyrfa ac i fuddsoddi yn yr economi leol. A gaf fi ofyn pa fwriad sydd gennych i adolygu canllawiau cynllunio er mwyn rhoi hyblygrwydd i awdurdodau lleol weithredu eu polisïau cynllunio mewn modd a fydd yn sicrhau bod y galw am y mathau hyn o gartrefi yn cael ei ddiwallu er mwyn annog teuluoedd iau a gweithwyr proffesiynol i ddod i Bowys a siroedd fel fy un i? Neu yn wir, a ydych yn credu nad oes angen yr hyblygrwydd hwnnw ar awdurdodau lleol gan fod ganddynt yr hyblygrwydd hwnnw eisoes, ac nad oes angen unrhyw newid i ganllawiau cynllunio?

14:20

This is actually a question on the quality of the housing supply, and that's a question about the actual housing supply. But we've only just reissued 'Planning Policy Wales' just before Christmas. That emphasises a place-building approach, with an emphasis on sustainable place models. So what we're asking local authorities to do, within their LDPs, is to look at sustainable place making with mixed tenure developments there. Actually, all the market statistics show us that we build enough market homes; the things that we're desperately short of are homes for social rent. So, at the moment the market is providing more than adequate market homes, and our Help to Buy scheme has driven some of that, but what we actually need to build far more of—thousands more of—are homes for social rent, so, rather different to the picture you've just painted.

Mae hwn yn gwestiwn ynglŷn ag ansawdd y cyflenwad tai, mewn gwirionedd, ac mae hwnnw'n gwestiwn ynglŷn â'r cyflenwad tai ei hun. Ond fe ailgyhoeddasom 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru' ychydig cyn y Nadolig. Mae hwnnw'n pwysleisio ymagwedd adeiladu'n seiliedig ar leoedd, gyda phwyslais ar fodelau cynaliadwy'n seiliedig ar leoedd. Felly, yr hyn rydym yn gofyn i awdurdodau lleol ei wneud, yn eu Cynlluniau Datblygu Lleol, yw edrych ar greu lleoedd cynaliadwy sy'n cynnwys datblygiadau deiliadaeth gymysg. A dweud y gwir, mae holl ystadegau'r farchnad yn dangos inni ein bod yn adeiladu digon o gartrefi ar gyfer y farchnad; y pethau rydym yn brin ohonynt yw cartrefi rhent cymdeithasol. Felly, ar hyn o bryd, mae'r farchnad yn darparu mwy na digon o gartrefi ar gyfer y farchnad, ac mae ein cynllun Cymorth i Brynu wedi sbarduno rhywfaint o hynny, ond mewn gwirionedd, yr hyn y mae angen i ni adeiladu llawer mwy ohonynt—miloedd yn fwy ohonynt—yw cartrefi rhent cymdeithasol, felly sefyllfa wahanol iawn i'r darlun rydych newydd ei ddisgrifio.

We have too many poor-quality houses in Wales, many with very poor energy efficiency, meaning those who are poorest end up either cold or paying more for heating their homes than you and I do. What is the Welsh Government doing to improve energy efficiency, especially in the private rented sector and the very low-cost part of the private rented sector?

Mae gennym ormod o dai o ansawdd gwael yng Nghymru, a llawer ohonynt yn gwneud defnydd aneffeithlon iawn o ynni, sy'n golygu bod y bobl dlotaf naill ai'n oer neu'n talu mwy am wresogi eu cartrefi na chi a fi. Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i wella effeithlonrwydd ynni, yn enwedig yn y sector rhentu preifat a'r rhan gost isel iawn o'r sector rhentu preifat?

So, at the moment, we've concentrated on the Welsh housing quality standard for publicly provided housing. Mike Hedges knows very well that the Welsh housing quality standard asks social landlords to get to a standard assessment procedure rating of 65 or higher, or an energy performance certificate D rating equivalent. About 97 per cent of our stock so far is up at that standard and we've got a small amount more to do before we meet the entire Welsh housing quality standard. What we've been trying to do in the private rented sector is change the relationship between landlords and tenants and ensure that tenants have a better deal all round in terms of the way that properties are let, the sorts of property that are available and the regulation through Rent Smart Wales. We haven't at this point in time got any particular energy efficiency indications there, but as I just said in answer to Helen Mary Jones, we are expecting the decarbonisation working group report imminently, and they were asked to look across the piece in Wales, and I am expecting a set of recommendations around what we should do across every tenure in Wales to improve energy efficiency and indeed insulation and standards to go with it.

Ar hyn o bryd, rydym wedi canolbwyntio ar safon ansawdd tai Cymru ar gyfer tai a ddarperir yn gyhoeddus. Gŵyr Mike Hedges yn iawn fod safon ansawdd tai Cymru yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i landlordiaid cymdeithasol gael sgôr o 65 neu uwch yn y weithdrefn asesu safonol, neu dystysgrif perfformiad ynni sy'n cyfateb i radd D. Mae oddeutu 97 y cant o'n stoc yn cyrraedd y safon honno ar hyn o bryd, ac mae gennym ychydig yn fwy i'w wneud cyn ein bod yn bodloni'r safon ansawdd tai ar gyfer Cymru gyfan. Yr hyn rydym wedi bod yn ceisio'i wneud yn y sector rhentu preifat yw newid y berthynas rhwng landlordiaid a thenantiaid a sicrhau bod tenantiaid yn cael bargen well yn gyffredinol o ran y ffordd y caiff eiddo ei osod, y mathau o eiddo sydd ar gael a'r rheoliadau drwy Rhentu Doeth Cymru. Ar hyn o bryd, nid ydym wedi cael unrhyw arwyddion penodol ynghylch effeithlonrwydd ynni, ond fel y dywedais wrth ateb Helen Mary Jones, rydym yn disgwyl i'r gweithgor datgarboneiddio adrodd cyn bo hir, a gofynnwyd iddynt ystyried Cymru gyfan, ac rwy'n disgwyl set o argymhellion ynghylch yr hyn y dylem ei wneud ar draws pob deiliadaeth yng Nghymru i wella effeithlonrwydd ynni, ac yn wir, insiwleiddio a safonau i fynd gyda hynny.

Diwygio Cyfraith Lesddaliad
Leasehold Reform

2. Pa asesiad y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i wneud o adroddiad Pwyllgor Tai, Cymunedau a Llywodraeth Leol Tŷ'r Cyffredin ar ddiwygio cyfraith lesddaliad? OAQ54065

2. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the House of Commons' Housing, Communities and Local Government Committee’s report on leasehold reform? OAQ54065

I have read their report with interest. However, it is a devolved matter and our own independent task and finish group for leasehold reform is on schedule to deliver its report to me in July. I will be reviewing its recommendations and then deciding which actions to take forward for Wales.

Rwyf wedi darllen eu hadroddiad â chryn ddiddordeb. Fodd bynnag, mae'n fater datganoledig ac mae ein grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen annibynnol ein hunain ar gyfer diwygio cyfraith lesddaliad ar y trywydd iawn i gyflwyno eu hadroddiad i mi ym mis Gorffennaf. Byddaf yn adolygu eu hargymhellion ac yna'n penderfynu pa gamau i'w cymryd ar gyfer Cymru.

I do commend you for reading the report. England and Wales law is often common in this area, and I think there are lessons to be learnt, and I think the House of Commons committee's done a great service here.

Estate management fees as well as service charges have been criticised for their size, lack of transparency and the difficulty with which they can be challenged. Those are certainly problems that we have in Wales. And Which?, the consumer organisation, has pointed out that no new-build housing estate should have their roads as the responsibility of the leaseholder, yet this is happening more and more at the moment. Often, as the report indicates, developers blame the local council, the council blames the developers and it's an unholy mess.

I have met with residents on a new-build estate within my own region and they've informed me that they're in a conflict between the estate and the local council and the developer over the adoption of a main road through the estate, which is a bus route. And despite that road being a key bus route, it's not at the moment going to be adopted. This is just a crazy situation. The planners should never allow it and the developers should not be allowed to produce roads of inadequate quality when they're clearly marked as being required to be bus routes.

Fe'ch cymeradwyaf am ddarllen yr adroddiad. Mae cyfraith Cymru a Lloegr yn aml yn gyffredin yn y maes hwn, a chredaf fod gwersi i'w dysgu, a bod pwyllgor Tŷ'r Cyffredin wedi gwneud gwasanaeth gwych yma.

Mae ffioedd rheoli ystadau yn ogystal â ffioedd gwasanaeth wedi cael eu beirniadu am eu maint, eu diffyg tryloywder a pha mor anodd yw eu herio. Mae'r rheini'n sicr yn broblemau sydd gennym yng Nghymru. Ac mae Which?, y sefydliad defnyddwyr, wedi nodi na ddylai ffyrdd unrhyw ystâd o dai newydd fod yn gyfrifoldeb i'r lesddeiliad, ond mae hyn yn digwydd yn amlach ac yn amlach ar hyn o bryd. Yn aml, fel y dywed yr adroddiad, mae datblygwyr yn beio'r cyngor lleol, mae'r cyngor yn beio'r datblygwyr ac mae'n llanast anniben.

Rwyf wedi cyfarfod â phreswylwyr ar ystâd dai newydd yn fy rhanbarth i ac maent wedi dweud wrthyf eu bod yn gwrthdaro rhwng yr ystâd a'r cyngor lleol a'r datblygwr ynghylch mabwysiadu prif ffordd drwy'r ystâd, sy'n llwybr bysiau. Ac er bod y ffordd honno'n llwybr bysiau allweddol, ni fydd yn cael ei mabwysiadu ar hyn o bryd. Mae hon yn sefyllfa wallgof. Ni ddylai'r cynllunwyr ganiatáu hyn ac ni ddylid caniatáu i'r datblygwyr gynhyrchu ffyrdd o ansawdd annigonol pan fyddant wedi'u nodi'n glir fel rhai y mae'n ofynnol iddynt fod yn llwybrau bysiau.

14:25

I entirely agree with the Member's analysis of that. We do have a significant problem in some of the 106 agreements that have been negotiated between developers and councils throughout Wales. And one of the difficulties that has arisen as a result of that is the issue around the adoption of roads, the standard they have to be brought up to, the beneficial use of the estate in question prior to the adoption of the road and so on. So, we're attacking that on a number of fronts.

The most straightforward of that is that, alongside the leasehold reform group, we also have a task and finish group who are tasked with a review of unadopted roads. It's actually a joint task force between myself and the Minister for Economy and Transport, and they're due to give us their recommendations very shortly. We've specifically asked them to look at the introduction of a code of practice for estate and property management agents to enhance the professional and ethical standards that they operate to.

Simultaneously, Members will be aware that, yesterday, I did an oral statement on some of the suggestions that we're having for more regional working with local authorities. One of the areas that that was addressing was in economic development and land use. One of the specific drivers for that is to get the very valuable and unfortunately increasingly rare skill of being able to negotiate those agreements properly, so that the people who have those skills are available to all of Wales, rather than to those lucky local authorities who have managed to retain them. It's quite clearly an issue that we need to bottom.

So, we're looking at coming at it from both ends, if you like, but I think we're also looking at renewed guidance to local authorities, in terms of what they should be looking for when they're looking at a situation where a new development has largely been completed, but the roads are not at adoptable standards.

So, just to recap, we've got the leasehold reform group coming back, we've got the task and finish group coming back on unadopted roads, the UK Government's announcements are very interesting in terms of legislating to ensure that freeholders who pay charges for the maintenance of communal areas have access to the same rights as leaseholders in terms of the way that that's regulated. And we're very interested in looking at that as well.

Cytunaf yn llwyr â dadansoddiad yr Aelod o hynny. Mae gennym broblem sylweddol mewn rhai o'r cytundebau 106 a negodwyd rhwng datblygwyr a chynghorau ledled Cymru. Ac un o'r anawsterau sydd wedi codi o ganlyniad i hynny yw'r broblem ynghylch mabwysiadu ffyrdd, y safon y mae'n rhaid eu codi iddi, defnydd buddiol yr ystâd dan sylw cyn mabwysiadu'r ffordd ac ati. Felly, rydym yn mynd i'r afael â hynny mewn sawl ffordd.

Y ffordd symlaf yw fod gennym hefyd, ochr yn ochr â'r grŵp diwygio cyfraith lesddaliad, grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen sy'n gyfrifol am gynhyrchu adolygiad o ffyrdd sydd heb eu mabwysiadu. Mewn gwirionedd, mae'n dasglu ar y cyd rhwng Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth a minnau, ac maent i fod i roi eu hargymhellion i ni cyn bo hir. Rydym wedi gofyn yn benodol iddynt edrych ar y syniad o gyflwyno cod ymarfer ar gyfer asiantau rheoli ystadau ac eiddo i wella'r safonau proffesiynol a moesegol y maent yn gweithredu iddynt.

Ar yr un pryd, bydd yr Aelodau'n gwybod fy mod wedi gwneud datganiad llafar ddoe ar rai o'r awgrymiadau a gawn am fwy o weithio rhanbarthol gydag awdurdodau lleol. Un o'r meysydd roedd hwnnw'n ymdrin â hwy oedd datblygu economaidd a defnydd tir. Un o'r ffactorau penodol sy'n sbarduno hynny yw sicrhau y ceir y sgil gwerthfawr iawn a chynyddol brin yn anffodus o allu negodi'r cytundebau hynny'n briodol, fel bod y bobl sydd â'r sgiliau hynny ar gael i Gymru gyfan, yn hytrach nag i'r awdurdodau lleol lwcus sydd wedi llwyddo i'w cadw. Mae'n amlwg yn fater y mae angen i ni ei ddatrys.

Felly, rydym yn edrych ar fynd i'r afael â hyn o'r ddau ben, os mynnwch, ond credaf ein bod hefyd yn edrych ar ganllawiau newydd i awdurdodau lleol o ran yr hyn y dylent fod yn chwilio amdano wrth edrych ar sefyllfa lle mae datblygiad newydd wedi'i gwblhau i raddau helaeth, ond nid yw'r ffyrdd yn cyrraedd safonau lle gellir eu mabwysiadu.

Felly, i grynhoi, bydd y grŵp diwygio cyfraith lesddaliad yn adrodd yn ôl, bydd y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen yn adrodd yn ôl ar ffyrdd sydd heb eu mabwysiadu, mae cyhoeddiadau Llywodraeth y DU yn ddiddorol iawn o ran deddfu i sicrhau bod gan rydd-ddeiliaid sy'n talu ffioedd am gynnal a chadw ardaloedd cymunedol fynediad at yr un hawliau â lesddeiliaid o ran y ffordd y caiff hynny ei reoleiddio. Ac mae gennym gryn ddiddordeb mewn edrych ar hynny hefyd.

Can I echo the comments from David Melding, because, clearly, leaseholders are facing some very serious challenges, particularly financially? And, when you come back to your working group, I hope that they recommend that you take action on putting regulation upon estate management companies—and if they don't, I hope you put it in anyway. Because, for example, I've got many constituents in my constituency who own properties on different estates—not just one, many estates—which are leasehold. And I've got one here in front of me that has actually given them the breakdown of the leasehold bill they've received for this year. They are required to pay £187 a month on top of everything—that's on top of council tax, on top of the utilities. And I'll include what they say: included in the list are out-of-hours fees; a management fee, twice; an accountancy fee; and banking charges. They're included in the list they're expected to pay.

Now, these are management companies that are looking after estates on behalf of these, and they are using it as a money machine. I hope you put in place, in those proposals afterwards, regulations to put upon these agencies to ensure that they deal with people fairly and that any funding they require is based upon actual need and not costs that they incur anyway.

A gaf fi adleisio'r sylwadau gan David Melding, oherwydd, yn amlwg, mae lesddeiliaid yn wynebu heriau difrifol iawn, yn enwedig yn ariannol? A phan fyddwch yn dychwelyd at eich gweithgor, rwy'n gobeithio y byddant yn argymell eich bod yn gweithredu i reoleiddio cwmnïau rheoli ystadau—ac os nad ydynt, rwy'n gobeithio y byddwch yn ei gynnwys beth bynnag. Oherwydd, er enghraifft, mae llawer o etholwyr yn fy etholaeth sy'n berchen ar eiddo ar wahanol ystadau—nid un yn unig, llawer o ystadau—sy'n eiddo lesddaliadol. Ac mae gennyf un yma o fy mlaen sydd wedi rhoi dadansoddiad iddynt o'r bil lesddaliad y maent wedi'i gael ar gyfer eleni. Mae'n ofynnol iddynt dalu £187 y mis ar ben popeth arall—ar ben y dreth gyngor, ar ben y cyfleustodau. Ac rwyf am gynnwys yr hyn a ddywedant: mae'r rhestr yn cynnwys ffioedd y tu allan i oriau; ffi reoli, ddwywaith; ffi gyfrifyddiaeth; a ffioedd bancio. Maent wedi eu cynnwys yn y rhestr y disgwylir iddynt ei thalu.

Nawr, mae'r rhain yn gwmnïau rheoli sy'n gofalu am ystadau ar ran y rhain, ac maent yn ei ddefnyddio fel peiriant arian. Rwy'n gobeithio y byddwch wedi rhoi rheoliadau ar waith, yn y cynigion hynny wedyn, ar gyfer yr asiantaethau hyn i sicrhau eu bod yn trin pobl yn deg a bod unrhyw gyllid y mae arnynt ei angen yn seiliedig ar angen gwirioneddol yn hytrach nag ar gostau y maent yn eu hwynebu beth bynnag.

Yes, again, I share the Member's disquiet at some of the practices that have arisen as a result of this. The fundamental issue is that when somebody buys a freehold house that they ought to be receiving the proper advice from their lawyers acting on their behalf about the other charges that are associated with that house, including whether there is an adopted road for which they will be required to provide maintenance. In response to David Melding, I rehearsed the things that we're doing to look at this. Certainly, in the short term, we're looking to see if there’s anything we can do about some of the specific charges.

The difficulty, though, is that there are protections in place for leaseholders, but those protections do not extend to freeholders who've entered into that kind of management agreement. So, the UK Government has seen that this a lacunae, so, with any luck, they'll step into that place, because we're on the boundary of the devolution settlement here as well.

So, we have asked the task and finish group to look specifically at some of the charges as well, but, actually, a much better solution would be to get the roads to an adoptable standard and get them adopted. So, it may be that we have to look at schemes in order to be able to facilitate that. And I will certainly be looking at our own Help to Buy scheme, to see if there's anything we can do in that scheme to make sure that we aren't promulgating practices that are unhelpful, to say the least.

Unwaith eto, rwy'n rhannu pryderon yr Aelod ynglŷn â rhai o'r arferion sydd wedi codi o ganlyniad i hyn. Y mater sylfaenol yma yw pan fydd rhywun yn prynu tŷ rhydd-ddaliadol, dylent fod yn derbyn y cyngor priodol gan eu cyfreithwyr sy'n gweithredu ar eu rhan ynglŷn â'r ffioedd eraill sy'n gysylltiedig â'r tŷ hwnnw, gan gynnwys p'un a oes ffordd fabwysiedig y bydd gofyn iddynt ddarparu gwaith cynnal a chadw ar ei chyfer. Mewn ymateb i David Melding, ailadroddais y pethau rydym yn eu gwneud i edrych ar hyn. Yn sicr, yn y tymor byr, rydym yn edrych i weld a oes unrhyw beth y gallwn ei wneud ynglŷn â rhai o'r ffioedd penodol.

Yr hyn sy'n anodd, fodd bynnag, yw bod amddiffyniadau ar waith ar gyfer lesddeiliaid, ond nid yw'r amddiffyniadau hynny'n gwarchod rhydd-ddeiliaid sydd wedi ymrwymo i gytundeb rheoli o'r fath. Felly, mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi gweld bod hyn yn fwlch, felly, gydag unrhyw lwc, byddant yn camu i'r bwlch hwnnw, gan ein bod ar ffin y setliad datganoli yma hefyd.

Felly, rydym wedi gofyn i'r grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen edrych yn benodol ar rai o'r ffioedd hefyd, ond mewn gwirionedd, ateb gwell o lawer fyddai sicrhau bod y ffyrdd yn cyrraedd safon lle gellir eu mabwysiadu, ac yna eu mabwysiadu. Felly, efallai y bydd yn rhaid inni edrych ar gynlluniau er mwyn gallu hwyluso hynny. Ac yn sicr, byddaf yn edrych ar ein cynllun Cymorth i Brynu ein hunain, i weld a oes unrhyw beth y gallwn ei wneud yn y cynllun hwnnw i sicrhau nad ydym yn lledaenu arferion nad ydynt o gymorth, a dweud y lleiaf.

14:30
Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, David Melding.

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, David Melding.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Minister, I'm sure you'll join me in welcoming the excellent report that was launched yesterday by Tai Pawb, the Chartered Institute of Housing Cymru and Shelter Cymru on the right to adequate housing in Wales. And I commend the report to all Members who have not had a chance to see it yet. The report makes a compelling case for the right to adequate housing to be enshrined in Welsh law, whilst also clearly setting out a route-map for how we should get there. Do you agree that the right to housing in Wales should be recognised in statute?

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Weinidog, rwy'n siŵr y byddwch yn ymuno â mi i groesawu'r adroddiad ardderchog a lansiwyd ddoe gan Tai Pawb, Sefydliad Tai Siartredig Cymru a Shelter Cymru ar yr hawl i dai digonol yng Nghymru. A chymeradwyaf yr adroddiad i'r holl Aelodau nad ydynt wedi cael cyfle i'w weld eto. Mae'r adroddiad yn gwneud achos cryf dros ymgorffori'r hawl i dai digonol yng nghyfraith Cymru, a hefyd yn nodi map clir ar gyfer sut y dylem gyrraedd y sefyllfa honno. A ydych yn cytuno y dylid cydnabod yr hawl i dai yng Nghymru mewn statud?

Yes, I absolutely do. I spoke at the event yesterday. Unfortunately, I had another event to go to, so I was sandwiched in between two parts of the author of the report's introduction of it. But I was very impressed by the clarity with which he set out some of the legislative issues that he'd researched, and I'm very much looking forward to going through with my officials what the route-map might be to achieving some of the recommendations in the report for Wales. But in my contribution to that event, I did say that it's not only important to make sure that people have housing as a fundamental human right, front and centre, but that, actually, we're in a position to deliver it. So, if, for example, an individual has a right to enforce that, we have to have an adequate housing supply, in order for them to be able to have the houses to get into. We also have to have the right support mechanisms in place to enable people who have a range of difficulties to stay in their accommodation and so on. So, whilst I absolutely fundamentally accept the purpose of the report, and concur with it, we do have a range of practical issues to consider as well.

Ydw, yn sicr. Bûm yn siarad yn y digwyddiad ddoe. Yn anffodus, bu'n rhaid imi fynychu digwyddiad arall, felly cefais fy ngwasgu i mewn rhwng dwy ran o gyflwyniad awdur yr adroddiad i'r adroddiad. Ond gwnaeth y modd eglur y nododd rai o'r materion deddfwriaethol y bu'n ymchwilio iddynt argraff fawr arnaf, ac edrychaf ymlaen yn fawr at drafod manylion y map gyda fy swyddogion o ran sut i gyflawni rhai o'r argymhellion yn yr adroddiad ar gyfer Cymru. Ond yn fy nghyfraniad i'r digwyddiad hwnnw, dywedais ei bod nid yn unig yn bwysig sicrhau yn anad dim fod gan bobl dai fel hawl ddynol, ond ein bod mewn sefyllfa i ddarparu hynny mewn gwirionedd. Felly, er enghraifft, os oes gan unigolyn hawl i orfodi hynny, mae'n rhaid bod gennym gyflenwad digonol o dai, er mwyn iddynt allu cael y tai i fynd iddynt. Mae'n rhaid i ni hefyd sicrhau bod y mecanweithiau cymorth cywir ar waith gennym i alluogi pobl sydd ag amrywiaeth o anawsterau i aros yn eu cartrefi ac yn y blaen. Felly, er fy mod yn llwyr dderbyn diben yr adroddiad yn ei hanfod, ac yn cytuno ag ef, mae gennym amrywiaeth o faterion ymarferol i'w hystyried hefyd.

Thank you, Minister, for that very encouraging answer, if I can say. And you quite rightly say you need a strategy to be able to ensure a right exists in practice. And, indeed, the report sketches out what needs to be done in terms of a rights-based national housing strategy. And it's indeed something I've already called for—and I think other parties share this aspiration. And can I just say, it would be a fantastic year for us to achieve a commitment to this development of a national housing strategy. After all, we are fast approaching the hundredth anniversary of the birth of council housing as we know it. The Housing, Town Planning, &c. Act 1919—more commonly known as the Addison Act—received Royal Assent in July 1919. And I think, indeed, that it was referred to in the meeting, at the launch, yesterday.

Minister, will a national housing strategy emerge from the affordable housing review, with targets on increasing supply of housing at its heart, but also other issues addressed as well?

Diolch, Weinidog, am yr ateb calonogol iawn hwnnw, os caf ddweud. Ac rydych yn llygad eich lle pan ddywedwch fod angen strategaeth arnoch i allu sicrhau bod hawl yn bodoli yn ymarferol. Ac yn wir, mae'r adroddiad yn amlinellu'r hyn y mae angen ei wneud o ran strategaeth dai genedlaethol sy'n seiliedig ar hawliau. Ac yn wir, mae'n rhywbeth rwyf wedi galw amdano eisoes—a chredaf fod eraill yn rhannu'r dyhead hwn. Ac a gaf fi ddweud, byddai'n flwyddyn wych i ni pe gallem gyflawni ymrwymiad i ddatblygu'r strategaeth dai genedlaethol hon. Wedi'r cyfan, rydym yn prysur agosáu at ganmlwyddiant tai cyngor. Derbyniodd Ddeddf Tai a Chynllunio Trefol 1919—sy'n fwy adnabyddus fel Deddf Addison—Gydsyniad Brenhinol ym mis Gorffennaf 1919. Ac yn wir, rwy'n credu ei bod wedi cael sylw yn y cyfarfod, yn y lansiad ddoe.

Weinidog, a fydd yr adolygiad o dai fforddiadwy yn arwain at strategaeth dai genedlaethol, a fydd yn cynnwys targedau i gynyddu'r cyflenwad o dai yn ganolog iddi, ond a fydd yn mynd i'r afael â materion eraill hefyd?

I'm certainly very interested in looking at housing in the round. It's not just the affordable housing review that we've got to look at. You've heard me mentioning already in Plenary today the decarbonisation review. We have a rent policy review, we have a leasehold reform review, we have an ongoing priority need review—I think there are two more that I'm not currently thinking of. I've already put in train meeting together with the chairs of all of those reviews, and a number of officials, so that we can look in the round, across all of the advice we've got, so that we can come up with a coherent response to the series of reports. That may or may not turn into a strategy, but I am looking to have a coherent response across the piece. And I'm very keen to make sure that the report that was launched yesterday is part of that.

Yn sicr, mae diddordeb mawr gennyf mewn edrych ar dai yn gyffredinol. Nid yr adolygiad tai fforddiadwy yn unig sydd gennym i'w ystyried. Rydych wedi fy nghlywed yn sôn eisoes yn y Cyfarfod Llawn heddiw am yr adolygiad datgarboneiddio. Mae gennym adolygiad polisi rhent, mae gennym adolygiad diwygio cyfraith lesddaliad, mae gennym adolygiad parhaus o angen blaenoriaethol—credaf fod dau arall nad wyf yn eu cofio ar hyn o bryd. Rwyf eisoes wedi trefnu cyfarfodydd â chadeiryddion pob un o'r adolygiadau hynny, a nifer o swyddogion, fel y gallwn edrych ar y cyfan, ar draws yr holl gyngor a gawsom, i allu meddwl am ymateb cydlynol i'r gyfres o adroddiadau. Gall hynny droi'n strategaeth, neu gallai beidio, ond rwy'n bwriadu sicrhau ymateb cydlynol yn gyffredinol. Ac rwy'n awyddus iawn i sicrhau bod yr adroddiad a lansiwyd ddoe yn rhan o hynny.

I do think the strategy would be the way to look at all these things comprehensively. You're quite right—it's not just affordable housing, it's the totality of housing. But there are other key areas as well that we could mention here that should be part of a national housing strategy: the eradication of homelessness; increasing security of tenure for generation rent—nearly 20 per cent of those in housing at the moment; leasehold reform; and a strong tenant's voice. These are all major things that we should be pushing for. And, Minister, is it not time for us to forge a consensus on these issues—between all the parties in this Chamber, I think—that we could come together, and have a cross-party national housing strategy? What a wonderful achievement that would be, in the twentieth anniversary year of devolution. And will you invite the representatives of all parties to discuss this objective with the Welsh Government, because I think we could agree it?

Credaf mai'r strategaeth fyddai'r ffordd o edrych ar yr holl bethau hyn mewn ffordd gynhwysfawr. Rydych yn llygad eich lle—nid oes a wnelo hyn â thai fforddiadwy yn unig, mae'n ymwneud â'r maes tai yn ei gyfanrwydd. Ond mae meysydd allweddol eraill y gallem sôn amdanynt yma a ddylai fod yn rhan o strategaeth dai genedlaethol: dileu digartrefedd; cynyddu diogelwch deiliadaeth ar gyfer y genhedlaeth rhent—bron i 20 y cant o'r rheini mewn tai ar hyn o bryd; diwygio cyfraith lesddaliad; a llais cryf i'r tenant. Mae'r rhain oll yn bethau pwysig y dylem fod yn gwthio amdanynt. A Weinidog, onid yw'n bryd inni greu consensws ar y materion hyn—rhwng yr holl bleidiau yn y Siambr hon, rwy'n credu—y gallem ddod at ein gilydd, a chael strategaeth dai genedlaethol drawsbleidiol? Oni fyddai hynny'n gyflawniad gwych, yn ystod ugeinfed mlynedd datganoli? Ac a wnewch chi wahodd cynrychiolwyr o'r holl bleidiau i drafod yr amcan hwn gyda Llywodraeth Cymru, gan y credaf y gallem gytuno arno?

Yes, I'm very happy to say that I'd like to do that. In fact, I'm very happy to say now, Llywydd, on the floor of the Assembly, that I'd very much like to look at where the consensus across the parties is. We've had this discussion a number of times in Plenary, and you're absolutely right—a number of parties have put out housing documents, and there is much that we agree upon; there are nuances that we do not. I think David Melding is absolutely right in saying that it would be good to seek where the consensus is and see what can be done, once we've had all the reports in and we can look at them in the round. 

Rwy'n fwy na pharod i ddweud y buaswn yn awyddus i wneud hynny. Yn wir, rwy'n fwy na pharod i ddweud nawr, Lywydd, ar lawr y Cynulliad, y buaswn yn awyddus iawn i edrych ar lle mae'r consensws ar draws y pleidiau. Rydym wedi cael y drafodaeth hon sawl gwaith yn y Cyfarfod Llawn, ac rydych yn llygad eich lle—mae nifer o bleidiau wedi cyhoeddi dogfennau tai, ac mae llawer rydym yn cytuno arno; mae pethau bychain nad ydym yn cytuno arnynt. Credaf fod David Melding yn llygad ei le yn dweud y byddai'n dda gweld lle mae'r consensws a gweld beth y gellir ei wneud, pan fydd yr holl adroddiadau wedi dod i law a gallwn edrych arnynt yn eu cyfanrwydd.

14:35

Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Dai Lloyd. 

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Dai Lloyd.

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, the importance of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 cannot be understated in the deliberations of local authorities. So, Minister, how does the Welsh Government track the implementation of the Act's principles by councils?

Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, ni ellir gorbwysleisio pwysigrwydd Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau’r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015 yn nhrafodaethau awdurdodau lleol. Felly, Weinidog, sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn olrhain gweithrediad egwyddorion y Ddeddf gan gynghorau?

We work very closely with councils to ensure that they embed the seven ways of working of the Act, and that the principles of the Act are far-reaching. We're working currently with a working group in local government to make sure that, in everything we do with local authorities, we implement the Act and put it at the front and centre of everything that we do. 

Rydym yn gweithio'n agos iawn gyda chynghorau i sicrhau eu bod yn ymgorffori'r saith ffordd o weithio yn y Ddeddf, a bod egwyddorion y Ddeddf yn bellgyrhaeddol. Rydym ar hyn o bryd yn gweithio gyda gweithgor mewn llywodraeth leol i sicrhau, ym mhob dim a wnawn gydag awdurdodau lleol, ein bod yn gweithredu'r Ddeddf a'i bod yn ganolog i bopeth a wnawn.

Thank you for that, Minister, but we still see councils failing in some areas to seriously consider the Act. Might I just point to an example in my own region, in Bridgend? Recently, there has been a bus consultation on removing services. A report to cabinet recommending the cuts quite simply failed to do either an equalities assessment or an assessment of the impact on future generations. They said they would do both after the consultation before a final sign-off on the decision. In other words, after a decision had been made. Another example, then, in the same authority, Bridgend—the selling of the only playing field serving a council estate for housing. Are these not examples of local authorities being unable to think differently?

Diolch, Weinidog, ond rydym yn dal i weld cynghorau'n methu ystyried y Ddeddf yn iawn mewn rhai ardaloedd. A gaf fi gyfeirio at enghraifft yn fy rhanbarth i, ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr? Yn ddiweddar, cafwyd ymgynghoriad ar fysiau mewn perthynas â chael gwared ar wasanaethau. Roedd adroddiad i'r cabinet a oedd yn argymell y toriadau wedi methu cynnal asesiad cydraddoldeb nac asesiad o'r effaith ar genedlaethau'r dyfodol. Dywedasant y byddent yn gwneud y ddau beth ar ôl yr ymgynghoriad cyn i'r penderfyniad terfynol gael ei gymeradwyo. Hynny yw, ar ôl i benderfyniad gael ei wneud. Enghraifft arall, felly, yn yr un awdurdod, Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr—gwerthu'r unig gae chwarae a oedd yn gwasanaethu ystâd o dai cyngor er mwyn codi tai. Onid yw'r rhain yn enghreifftiau o awdurdodau lleol yn methu meddwl yn wahanol?

I'm not aware of the detail of those. I was aware of the bus consultation; I'm not aware of the detail of the other one. If the Member has any more detail, I'm very happy to look at it. I very recently met with the leader of Bridgend, but it was unfortunately on the day of the announcement of the Ford closure, and so our meeting changed from the normal meeting that I was due to have with him obviously into a crisis meeting about Bridgend. But I am due to reconvene with him, so if the Member wants to give me the details, I'm more than happy to raise it with him. 

Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o fanylion yr achosion hynny. Roeddwn yn ymwybodol o'r ymgynghoriad ar fysiau; nid wyf yn ymwybodol o fanylion yr achos arall. Os oes gan yr Aelod fwy o fanylion, rwy'n fwy na pharod i edrych arnynt. Yn ddiweddar, cyfarfûm ag arweinydd Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, ond yn anffodus, roedd hynny ar y diwrnod y cyhoeddwyd y byddai safle Ford yn cau, ac yn amlwg felly, newidiodd ein cyfarfod o'r cyfarfod arferol roeddwn i fod i'w gael gydag ef i fod yn gyfarfod argyfwng am Ben-y-bont ar Ogwr. Ond rwyf i fod i'w gyfarfod eto gyda hyn, felly os caf y manylion gan yr Aelod, rwy'n fwy na pharod i drafod yr achos gydag ef.

But the fact is that it looks like there's either no teeth to the Act itself, or no will in Government to track implementation, because on the other side of the region, Swansea, Swansea Council is looking to sell off land on the foreshore to make a quick buck, as I'm sure you'll be aware, and not even the iconic Singleton park is safe from this wheeling and dealing attitude. Is this not in direct violation of the future generations Act, and is there enough capacity in Government to track the implementation of the future generations Act?

Ond y ffaith yw ei bod yn ymddangos naill ai nad oes unrhyw ddannedd i'r Ddeddf ei hun, neu nad oes unrhyw ewyllys yn y Llywodraeth i olrhain ei gweithrediad, oherwydd ar ochr draw'r rhanbarth, yn Abertawe, mae Cyngor Abertawe yn bwriadu gwerthu tir ar y blaendraeth er mwyn gwneud elw cyflym, fel y gwyddoch, rwy'n siŵr, ac nid yw parc eiconig Singleton hyd yn oed yn ddiogel rhag y sgemio a sgilio. Onid yw hyn yn gwbl groes i Ddeddf cenedlaethau'r dyfodol, ac a oes digon o gapasiti yn y Llywodraeth i olrhain gweithrediad Deddf cenedlaethau'r dyfodol?

I understand that the proposals in Swansea are out to consultation. I too have a large postbag on the subject, and I'm sure you do as well, and my colleague Rebecca Evans is the constituency Assembly Member for that area, and I know she has similar concerns. We will be talking to the council about the way that it's taking some of those things forward, but it's at the beginning of a very long process of planning, economic development and so on, so I think it's rather early to say that they're not taking that into account. My understanding is that these are preliminary proposals. Again, if the Member has any more detail than I am aware of, I'd be grateful to have it. 

Deallaf fod y cynigion yn Abertawe yn destun ymgynghoriad. Mae gennyf innau fag post mawr ar y pwnc, ac rwy'n siŵr fod gennych chithau hefyd, a fy nghyd-Aelod Rebecca Evans yw'r Aelod Cynulliad etholaeth ar gyfer yr ardal honno, a gwn fod ganddi bryderon tebyg. Byddwn yn siarad â'r cyngor am y ffordd y mae'n bwrw ymlaen â rhai o'r pethau hynny, ond maent ar ddechrau proses hir iawn o gynllunio, datblygu economaidd ac yn y blaen, felly credaf ei bod yn gynnar iawn i ddweud nad ydynt yn ystyried hynny. Fy nealltwriaeth i yw mai cynigion rhagarweiniol yw'r rhain. Unwaith eto, os oes gan yr Aelod fwy o fanylion nag y gwn i amdanynt, buaswn yn ddiolchgar i'w cael.

Tlodi Plant
Child Poverty

3. Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n ei wneud i fynd i'r afael â thlodi plant? OAQ54069

3. What is the Welsh Government doing to tackle child poverty? OAQ54069

The Welsh Government is committed to working across Government to tackle child poverty. My colleague Julie James is leading a review of Welsh Government funding programmes to ensure they have maximum impact on the lives of children living in poverty. In addition, Lesley Griffiths will act as an advocate for poverty during budget preparations, to identify opportunities to increase the impact of collective investment. 

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i weithio ar draws y Llywodraeth i fynd i'r afael â thlodi plant. Mae fy nghyd-Aelod, Julie James, yn arwain adolygiad o raglenni cyllido Llywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau eu bod yn cael yr effaith fwyaf posibl ar fywydau plant sy'n byw mewn tlodi. Yn ogystal, bydd Lesley Griffiths yn eiriolwr dros dlodi yn ystod paratoadau'r gyllideb, i nodi cyfleoedd ar gyfer cynyddu effaith buddsoddi cyfunol.

Thank you, Deputy Minister. The discretionary assistance fund, which was introduced in April 2013, is a critical fund that supports the very poorest families in Wales. Children and families in the most pressurised circumstances and facing financial crisis have access to this fund. An evaluation was undertaken in 2015 to examine the effectiveness of the fund, which included suggestions on how the fund and its administration could be improved. Could the Minister outline if there has been any further evaluation on the discretionary assistance fund, or whether there has been any progress on addressing the suggestions for improvement in the 2015 evaluation?

Diolch, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Mae'r gronfa cymorth dewisol, a gyflwynwyd ym mis Ebrill 2013, yn gronfa hanfodol sy'n cefnogi'r teuluoedd tlotaf yng Nghymru. Mae gan blant a theuluoedd yn yr amgylchiadau anoddaf ac sy'n wynebu argyfwng ariannol fynediad at y gronfa hon. Cynhaliwyd gwerthusiad yn 2015 i archwilio effeithiolrwydd y gronfa, a oedd yn cynnwys awgrymiadau ar sut y gellid gwella'r gronfa a'r gwaith o'i gweinyddu. A allai'r Gweinidog amlinellu a fu unrhyw werthusiad pellach o'r gronfa cymorth dewisol, neu a fu unrhyw gynnydd o ran mynd i'r afael â'r awgrymiadau ar gyfer gwella yng ngwerthusiad 2015?

I'm going to start by saying that I absolutely agree with the Member with regard to the importance of the discretionary assistance fund, whether that be through individual assistance payments or emergency assistance payments. And I actually visited the Wrexham centre where it's facilitated not too long ago, and I sat and heard first-hand some of the distressing calls that are made by people who are really very vulnerable and struggling to make ends meet.

Like you say, an evaluation was undertaken and published in 2015, which made a number of recommendations for improvement, including making use of the DAF partner network to help support clients to apply successfully. They have all been implemented. A further survey was also carried out in 2016, but, in addition to this, an audit was carried out by Welsh Government in August 2017, which made a number of recommendations for improvement, which included things like simplifying the application process to assist vulnerable clients, making online applications for emergency support funding, without them needing to have that partner support that was needed beforehand, and I'm pleased that these have all been actioned.

Rwyf am yn dechrau drwy ddweud fy mod yn cytuno'n llwyr â'r Aelod ynghylch pwysigrwydd y gronfa cymorth dewisol, boed yn daliadau cymorth i unigolion neu daliadau cymorth mewn argyfwng. A bûm yn ymweld â chanolfan Wrecsam lle caiff ei gweithredu heb fod ymhell yn ôl, ac eisteddais a gwrando ar rai o'r galwadau torcalonnus sy'n cael eu gwneud gan bobl sy'n wirioneddol agored i niwed ac sy'n ei chael hi'n anodd cadw dau ben llinyn ynghyd.

Fel y dywedwch, cynhaliwyd a chyhoeddwyd gwerthusiad yn 2015 a wnaeth nifer o argymhellion ar gyfer gwella, gan gynnwys defnyddio rhwydwaith partneriaid y gronfa cymorth dewisol i roi cymorth i gleientiaid i wneud cais llwyddiannus. Mae pob un ohonynt wedi'u rhoi ar waith. Cynhaliwyd arolwg pellach hefyd yn 2016, ond yn ogystal â hyn, cynhaliwyd archwiliad gan Lywodraeth Cymru ym mis Awst 2017 a wnaeth nifer o argymhellion ar gyfer gwella, ac roedd yn cynnwys pethau fel symleiddio'r broses ymgeisio er mwyn cynorthwyo cleientiaid agored i niwed, gwneud ceisiadau ar-lein am gyllid cymorth brys heb fod angen iddynt gael y cymorth partner a oedd yn angenrheidiol cyn hynny, ac rwy'n falch fod pob un o'r rhain wedi cael eu rhoi ar waith.

14:40

Child poverty in Wales has been rising since 2004. It had already reached the highest level in the UK before the credit crunch, when more than one in four children in Wales were living in poverty, with 90,000 in severe poverty. We know that, last month, the End Child Poverty Network stated that Wales was the only UK nation to see a rise in child poverty last year and, although the Children's Commissioner for Wales said in March that the Welsh Government should write a new child poverty delivery plan focusing on concrete and measurable steps, the Welsh Government failed to support calls for any tackling poverty strategy during the individual Member's debate calling for this two weeks ago here. How, therefore, do you respond to the representations made to me after that debate by sector representatives regarding my emphasis on the need to focus on Welsh policy levers that the Welsh Government has within its power, that 'This is exactly the area in which we would like to focus our influencing as we agree there are powers the Welsh Government can and should be using to tackle the root causes of poverty', i.e. within a plan or strategy rather than a generic approach, which has left us at the bottom for more than 10 years?

Mae lefelau tlodi plant yng Nghymru wedi bod yn codi ers 2004. Roedd eisoes wedi cyrraedd y lefel uchaf yn y DU cyn y wasgfa gredyd, pan oedd mwy nag un o bob pedwar plentyn yng Nghymru yn byw mewn tlodi, gyda 90,000 mewn tlodi difrifol. Y mis diwethaf, gwyddom fod y Rhwydwaith Dileu Tlodi Plant wedi dweud mai Cymru oedd yr unig wlad yn y DU lle bu cynnydd mewn tlodi plant y llynedd, ac er i Gomisiynydd Plant Cymru ddweud ym mis Mawrth y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ysgrifennu cynllun cyflawni newydd ar dlodi plant i ganolbwyntio ar gamau pendant a mesuradwy, methodd Llywodraeth Cymru gefnogi galwadau am unrhyw strategaeth drechu tlodi yn ystod dadl yr Aelod unigol yn galw am hyn yma bythefnos yn ôl. Sut felly rydych yn ymateb i'r sylwadau a wnaed i mi ar ôl y ddadl honno gan gynrychiolwyr sector ynglŷn â fy mhwyslais ar yr angen i ganolbwyntio ar yr ysgogiadau polisi Cymreig sydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru o fewn ei phwerau, mai 'Dyma'r union faes yr hoffem ganolbwyntio ein dylanwad arno gan ein bod yn cytuno bod yna bwerau y gallai ac y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru eu defnyddio i fynd i'r afael ag achosion sylfaenol tlodi', h.y. o fewn cynllun neu strategaeth yn hytrach nag ymagwedd generig, sydd wedi ein gadael ar y gwaelod am dros 10 mlynedd?

Llywydd, I do find a hint of irony in the question from the Member without actually talking about the impact of austerity on child poverty in Wales and across the UK and how that has been significantly amplified as a consequence not just of austerity but of the regressive welfare reforms as well.

We are committed to taking action to reduce and ultimately eliminate child poverty by not just using the levers at our disposal across Government, whether that be through housing, education, health, but also the First Minister is committed to and work is under way on the First Minister's commitment to reorganise Welsh Government funding programmes to ensure that we have maximum impact on the lives of children living in poverty in Wales.

Lywydd, rwy'n synhwyro awgrym o eironi yng nghwestiwn yr Aelod gan nad yw'n sôn mewn gwirionedd am effaith cyni ar dlodi plant yng Nghymru a ledled y DU a sut y mae hynny wedi cael ei chwyddo'n sylweddol nid yn unig o ganlyniad i gyni ond y diwygiadau lles atchweliadol hefyd.

Rydym wedi ymrwymo i gymryd camau i leihau, ac yn y pen draw, i ddileu tlodi plant nid yn unig drwy ddefnyddio'r dulliau sydd ar gael inni ar draws y Llywodraeth, boed hynny drwy dai, addysg, iechyd, ond hefyd mae'r Prif Weinidog wedi ymrwymo ac mae gwaith yn mynd rhagddo ar ymrwymiad y Prif Weinidog i ad-drefnu rhaglenni cyllido Llywodraeth Cymru er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn cael yr effaith fwyaf sy'n bosibl ar fywydau plant sy'n byw mewn tlodi yng Nghymru.

We now have some communities where one in two children are living in poverty, and that is utterly disgraceful, but it is something that your Government can do something about. The Welsh Government could have an anti-poverty strategy—that would be a good start—a strategy that includes raising the threshold for free school meals to that of Northern Ireland, for example. Hunger, which is linked to poor attainment in school and is a consequence of poverty—I don't see much action from the Government on the question of hunger. And being a lot more proactive on the devolution of the administration of benefits to Wales would also make a difference, as the austerity consensus that has existed in Westminster has brought so much misery to our communities here in Wales. But do you agree with me, Minister, therefore, that it is neither enough nor acceptable to hide behind the pernicious policies of the Tories in Westminster while there is so much that could be done here in Wales to mitigate this child poverty?

Erbyn hyn mae gennym rai cymunedau lle mae un o bob dau blentyn yn byw mewn tlodi, ac mae hynny'n gwbl warthus, ond mae'n rhywbeth y gall eich Llywodraeth wneud rhywbeth yn ei gylch. Gallai Llywodraeth Cymru gael strategaeth yn erbyn tlodi—byddai hynny'n ddechrau da—strategaeth sy'n cynnwys codi'r trothwy ar gyfer prydau ysgol am ddim i'r un lefel â Gogledd Iwerddon, er enghraifft. Mae newyn, sy'n gysylltiedig â chyrhaeddiad gwael yn yr ysgol ac yn ganlyniad tlodi—nid wyf yn gweld llawer o weithredu gan y Llywodraeth mewn perthynas â newyn. A byddai bod yn llawer mwy rhagweithiol ar ddatganoli gweinyddu budd-daliadau i Gymru hefyd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth, gan fod y consensws cyni sydd wedi bodoli yn San Steffan wedi arwain at gymaint o drallod i'n cymunedau yma yng Nghymru. Ond a ydych yn cytuno â mi felly, Weinidog, nad yw'n ddigon nac yn dderbyniol cuddio y tu ôl i bolisïau niweidiol y Torïaid yn San Steffan tra bo cymaint y gellid ei wneud yma yng Nghymru i liniaru tlodi plant?

The Member's absolutely right that one child living in poverty is one child too many, particularly in 2019. That should not be the case, and I share the Member's passion for tackling this. On a Welsh Government level, we are committed to using all those levers at our disposal, as I just said to Mark Isherwood, whether that's through what we can do in terms of education, supporting childcare—. And that is a commitment that the Minister is taking forward—my colleague the Minister Julie James—in terms of actually how we maximise that funding and those things to actually bring it together across Government and really have the impact we want in terms of minimising and reducing and ultimately eliminating child poverty.

The Member refers to welfare reform and the potential devolution of the administration of welfare reform. This is something that I'm taking forward on behalf of the First Minister. We've tasked the Wales Centre for Public Policy to do a piece of work on that with us. I will be meeting them in the next couple of weeks to take that forward, and I'm more than happy to keep the Member updated, because I know you're so passionate and interested in this area, and to speak to you about this in the future.

Mae'r Aelod yn llygad ei lle fod un plentyn sy'n byw mewn tlodi yn un plentyn yn ormod, yn enwedig yn 2019. Ni ddylai hynny ddigwydd, ac rwy'n rhannu angerdd yr Aelod ynglŷn â mynd i'r afael â hyn. Ar lefel Llywodraeth Cymru, rydym wedi ymrwymo i ddefnyddio'r holl ddulliau sydd ar gael inni, fel y dywedais wrth Mark Isherwood yn awr, boed drwy'r hyn y gallwn ei wneud o ran addysg, cefnogi gofal plant—. Ac mae hwnnw'n ymrwymiad y mae'r Gweinidog yn bwrw ymlaen ag ef—fy nghyd-Aelod, y Gweinidog Julie James—o ran y ffordd rydym yn sicrhau cymaint â phosibl o'r cyllid hwnnw a'r pethau hynny er mwyn dod â hyn ynghyd ar draws y Llywodraeth ac i gael yr effaith rydym am ei chael mewn perthynas â lleihau, lliniaru, ac yn y pen draw, dileu tlodi plant.

Cyfeiria'r Aelod at ddiwygio lles a'r posibilrwydd o ddatganoli'r gwaith o weinyddu diwygio lles. Mae hyn yn rhywbeth rwy'n gweithio arno ar ran y Prif Weinidog. Rydym wedi gofyn i Ganolfan Polisi Cyhoeddus Cymru wneud gwaith ar hynny gyda ni. Byddaf yn cyfarfod â hwy yn yr ychydig wythnosau nesaf i fwrw ymlaen â hynny, ac rwy'n fwy na pharod i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Aelod, gan y gwn am eich angerdd a'ch diddordeb yn y maes hwn, ac i siarad â chi am hyn yn y dyfodol.

Adnewyddu Tai ar gyfer Pobl Hŷn
Renovating Houses for Older People

4. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am y cyllid sydd ar gael i adnewyddu tai ar gyfer pobl hŷn? OAQ54072

4. Will the Minister make a statement on the funding available to renovate houses for older people? OAQ54072

Yes. There is substantial Welsh Government support available to home owners and landlords, including older people, to renovate properties. Across Wales, £148 million has been made available to local authorities to invest in Welsh homes.

Gwnaf. Mae cefnogaeth sylweddol ar gael gan Lywodraeth Cymru i berchnogion cartrefi a landlordiaid, gan gynnwys pobl hŷn, ar gyfer adnewyddu eiddo. Ledled Cymru, mae £148 miliwn ar gael i awdurdodau lleol ei fuddsoddi mewn cartrefi yng Nghymru.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Dŷn ni’n gwybod, yn Ynys Môn, o fewn y pump i 10 mlynedd nesaf, fod disgwyl cynnydd o ryw 30 y cant yn nifer y bobl hŷn—pobl dros 60 oed. Dŷn ni'n gwybod yn barod fod yna brinder tai addas ar gyfer pobl hŷn efo anghenion symudedd yn arbennig ac anghenion iechyd. Mae angen codi tai newydd, wrth gwrs, sydd yn addas, ac mae hefyd angen adnewyddu tai o fewn y stoc bresennol. Ac, wrth gwrs, mae angen buddsoddi hefyd mewn addasu tai ar gyfer pobl hŷn. Tra allwch chi, fel Llywodraeth bresennol, ddim rhoi ymrwymiad heibio’r etholiad nesaf wrth gwrs, ydych chi'n cytuno bod rhaid i lefelau grant gan Lywodraeth Cymru i awdurdodau lleol fel Ynys Môn ar gyfer addasiadau, yn sicr, gynyddu ar yr un raddfa ag y mae ein poblogaeth ni'n heneiddio?

Thank you very much. We know, on Anglesey, that, within the next five to 10 years, there's going to be an increase of around 30 per cent in the number of older people—that's people over the age of 60. We already know that there’s a shortage of appropriate housing for older people with mobility needs and other health needs. We need to build new houses, of course, which are appropriate, and we also need to renovate houses within the current stock, and of course we need to invest in adaptations for homes for older people. Whilst you, as the current Government, can’t give a commitment beyond the next election, of course, do you agree that grant levels from the Welsh Government to local authorities such as Ynys Môn for adaptations should increase at the same rate as our population is growing older?

14:45

Actually, only this lunchtime I was at the launch of the 'Adaptations without delay' report done by the Royal College of Occupational Therapists, which my colleague Dawn Bowden had sponsored. We had a very good conversation about how we can accelerate the care and repair schemes in order to make sure that—. They have a number of functions, as the Member will be aware. They are preventative, obviously, and they help people stay in their own homes and not have to go into any kind of social care or NHS care, and also they are ameliorative in the sense that they get people back out of those settings into more independent living. My colleague Julie Morgan and I have had a couple of meetings very recently with various agencies delivering care and repair schemes, to see what data we can make the most use of to see what we need to do with it in the future, including actually looking to see whether we've got the demographic spread right, whether we've got the right kind of adaptations, and, frankly, whether we're building in our innovative housing programme the right kind of houses so that we build a 'house for life', as they call it, so that you don't have to have it adapted—they're built with stairs wide enough and all that sort of stuff.

I've been to some very good programmes. As it happens, only last week I was up in Ynys Môn and I went to see the new modular factory being built there for the passive house. The council leader was at the opening of that factory, and I know that they are commissioning bungalows especially with that in mind—with the increase in the older demographic in mind—with a view to having them being as flexible as possible so that people can stay in them for as long as possible. What we're doing is looking to see whether we can use the data coming back from our care and repair agencies to help us to decide which homes are worth adapting, which houses it's impossible to do it to economically, what the best options for people are, so that we can get them the right kind of accommodation in the right place, and what ameliorative programmes we can put in place to ensure that people stay as independent as possible for as long as possible. So, I think that's kind of a 'maybe' answer to your question, but I would be very interested in discussing it further.

A dweud y gwir, amser cinio, roeddwn yn lansiad yr adroddiad 'Addasiadau heb oedi' a gynhyrchwyd gan Goleg Brenhinol y Therapyddion Galwedigaethol, lansiad a noddwyd gan fy nghyd-Aelod Dawn Bowden. Cawsom sgwrs dda iawn ynglŷn â sut y gallwn gyflymu'r cynlluniau gofal a thrwsio er mwyn sicrhau—. Mae ganddynt nifer o swyddogaethau, fel y gŵyr yr Aelod. Maent yn ataliol, yn amlwg, ac maent yn helpu pobl i aros yn eu cartrefi eu hunain fel nad oes rhaid iddynt fynd i mewn i unrhyw fath o ofal cymdeithasol neu ofal GIG, ac maent hefyd yn wellhaol yn yr ystyr eu bod yn sicrhau bod pobl yn dychwelyd o'r lleoliadau hynny i fyw yn fwy annibynnol. Mae fy nghyd-Aelod Julie Morgan a minnau wedi cael un neu ddau o gyfarfodydd yn ddiweddar iawn gydag asiantaethau amrywiol sy'n darparu cynlluniau gofal a thrwsio, i weld pa ddata y gallwn wneud y defnydd mwyaf ohono i weld beth sydd angen i ni ei wneud ag ef yn y dyfodol, gan gynnwys edrych i weld a yw'r lledaeniad demograffig yn iawn gennym, a oes gennym y math cywir o addasiadau, ac a dweud y gwir, a ydym yn adeiladu'r math cywir o dai yn ein rhaglen dai arloesol fel ein bod yn adeiladu 'tŷ am oes', fel y'i gelwir, fel nad oes yn rhaid ichi ei addasu—maent wedi'u hadeiladu gyda grisiau digon llydan a phethau o'r fath.

Rwyf wedi ymweld â rhaglenni da iawn. Fel mae'n digwydd, roeddwn ar Ynys Môn yr wythnos diwethaf a bûm yn ymweld â'r ffatri fodiwlar newydd sy'n cael ei hadeiladu yno ar gyfer y tŷ ynni goddefol. Roedd arweinydd y cyngor yn bresennol yn agoriad y ffatri honno, a gwn eu bod yn comisiynu byngalos yn benodol gyda hynny mewn golwg—gan ystyried y cynnydd yn y ddemograffeg hŷn—gyda'r bwriad o sicrhau eu bod mor hyblyg â phosibl fel y gall pobl aros ynddynt am gyn hired â phosibl. Rydym yn edrych i weld a allwn ddefnyddio'r data a gawn gan ein hasiantaethau gofal a thrwsio i'n helpu i benderfynu pa gartrefi sy'n werth eu haddasu, pa dai y mae'n amhosibl gwneud hynny iddynt yn economaidd, beth yw'r opsiynau gorau i bobl fel y gallwn ddarparu'r math iawn o lety ar eu cyfer yn y lle iawn, a pha raglenni gwellhaol y gallwn eu rhoi ar waith i sicrhau bod pobl yn aros mor annibynnol â phosibl am gyn hired â phosibl. Felly, credaf fod hynny'n rhyw fath o ateb 'efallai' i'ch cwestiwn, ond byddai gennyf gryn ddiddordeb mewn trafod hyn ymhellach.

Many of the older people who come to me have been very grateful for the grants that they've had to adapt their homes or to renovate them, because as you and I and most of the Members here know, stability in your home is incredibly important as you get older because you are able then to stay connected to your community, things are more familiar, and it helps with mental health issues, loneliness, isolation and the raft of it—it's very important. However, the issue with the money is that, very often, the councils will give out that money, they've awarded the contract and then the contract itself, or the builders who provide it, are sub-service: the renovations have not been to the right standard, the adaptations do not meet the needs of the person, and they have not done what they said they would do. You go back to the councils and they say, 'But we've given out the money; our job has finished'. What can you do, as a Minister for this area, to encourage councils to actually just be a little bit more savvy in their business dealings with these organisations, and to do simple things like have a 5 per cent or 10 per cent retention fee, so that once the householder, and only when the householder, has actually signed off on it and said, 'Yes, that disabled bathroom is now fit for purpose', or 'Yes, that renovation is allowing me to stay in this home safely and securely', does the council then pay the balance? Because it's a loss-loss situation—the council have got money that's not being utilised properly, the poor person involved in this has got the stress, at an older age, of trying to deal with a recalcitrant company and they're not getting what they need.

Mae llawer o'r bobl hŷn sy'n dod ataf wedi bod yn ddiolchgar iawn am y grantiau a gawsant i addasu neu adnewyddu eu tai, oherwydd fel y gwyddoch chi a minnau a'r rhan fwyaf o'r Aelodau yma, mae sefydlogrwydd yn eich cartref yn hynod o bwysig wrth i chi fynd yn hŷn gan y gallwch barhau i fod wedi'ch cysylltu wrth eich cymuned, mae pethau'n fwy cyfarwydd, ac mae'n helpu gyda materion iechyd meddwl, unigrwydd, teimlo'n ynysig a phopeth arall—mae'n bwysig iawn. Fodd bynnag, y broblem gyda'r arian yw y bydd y cynghorau yn aml iawn yn darparu'r arian hwnnw, maent wedi dyfarnu'r contract ac yna mae'r contract ei hun, neu'r adeiladwyr sy'n ei ddarparu, yn anfoddhaol: nid yw'r gwaith adnewyddu wedi'i gwblhau i'r safon iawn, nid yw'r addasiadau yn bodloni anghenion yr unigolyn, ac nid ydynt wedi gwneud yr hyn y dywedasant y byddent yn ei wneud. Rydych yn mynd yn ôl at y cynghorau ac maent yn dweud, 'Ond rydym wedi darparu'r arian; mae ein gwaith ni wedi'i wneud'. Beth y gallwch ei wneud, fel y Gweinidog sy'n gyfrifol am y maes hwn, i annog cynghorau i fod ychydig yn fwy doeth wrth ymdrin â'r sefydliadau hyn, ac i wneud pethau syml fel pennu ffioedd dargadw o 5 y cant neu 10 y cant, er mwyn sicrhau mai pan fydd deiliad y tŷ, a dim ond pan fydd deiliad y tŷ, wedi cytuno ac wedi dweud, 'Ydy, mae'r ystafell ymolchi anabl honno bellach yn addas i'r diben', neu 'Ydy, mae'r gwaith adnewyddu hwnnw'n caniatáu i mi aros yn y cartref hwn yn ddiogel', y bydd y cyngor wedyn yn talu'r hyn sy'n dal i fod yn ddyledus? Oherwydd mae hon yn sefyllfa lle mae pawb ar eu colled—mae gan y cyngor arian nad yw'n cael ei ddefnyddio'n iawn, mae'r unigolyn druan wedi dioddef straen, a hwythau'n bobl hŷn, o geisio ymdrin â chwmni ystyfnig ac nid ydynt yn cael yr hyn sydd ei angen arnynt.

I said in response to Rhun that what we want to do is look to see what the evidence coming back to us is telling us about the way that some of the care and repair schemes across Wales are managed. Actually, it's my colleague Julie Morgan who has overarching portfolio responsibility for that, but I have the housing bit of it, so it overlaps almost entirely. So, we've been working together to try and get the best out of it.

If you've got very specific examples, I'd be very happy to hear about them and see what we can do. It is helpful to us to know where the problems are. As I say, we are looking at data collection so that we can redesign the schemes appropriately. We're also looking to see whether the way we currently deliver it is the best way to deliver it or whether there are other methodologies available.  It's not done in the same way in every part of Wales, so it'll be interesting to see some of the detail of the things that you're telling me.

Dywedais mewn ymateb i Rhun mai'r hyn rydym yn awyddus i'w wneud yw edrych ar yr hyn y mae'r dystiolaeth a gawn yn ei ddweud wrthym am y ffordd y rheolir rhai o'r cynlluniau gofal a thrwsio ledled Cymru. A dweud y gwir, fy nghyd-Aelod Julie Morgan sydd â'r cyfrifoldeb portffolio trosfwaol am hynny, ond rwy'n gyfrifol am yr agwedd dai, felly mae'n gorgyffwrdd bron yn llwyr. Felly, rydym wedi bod yn cydweithio i geisio cael y gorau o hynny.

Os oes gennych enghreifftiau penodol iawn, rwy'n fwy na pharod i wrando arnynt a gweld beth y gallwn ei wneud. Mae'n ddefnyddiol inni wybod ble mae'r problemau. Fel y dywedais, rydym yn edrych ar gasglu data fel y gallwn ailgynllunio'r cynlluniau'n briodol. Rydym hefyd yn edrych i weld ai'r ffordd rydym yn darparu hyn ar hyn o bryd yw'r ffordd orau o'i ddarparu neu a oes methodolegau eraill ar gael. Nid yw hyn yn cael ei wneud yn yr un ffordd ym mhob rhan o Gymru, felly bydd yn ddiddorol gweld rhywfaint o fanylion y pethau a ddywedwch wrthyf.

14:50

Minister, we all agree that we must do everything we can to ensure older people remain in their homes for as long a possible. Home adaptations are essential in ensuring this. What is your Government doing to reduce the inordinately long waits for such adaptations?

Weinidog, mae pob un ohonom yn cytuno bod yn rhaid i ni wneud popeth o fewn ein gallu i sicrhau bod pobl hŷn yn aros yn eu cartrefi am gyn hired â phosibl. Mae addasu cartrefi yn hanfodol er mwyn sicrhau hyn. Beth y mae eich Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i leihau'r amseroedd aros anarferol o hir ar gyfer addasiadau o'r fath?

I don't accept there are inordinately long waits. Actually, over the last two Assembly terms, it's improved out of all measure. I don't know if I speak only for my surrounding AMs, but we've had this discussion. Certainly, when I started as an Assembly Member, I had a fairly large postbag full of people waiting for adaptations. I certainly don't have that now because the service has improved out of all measure. So, I don't think waiting is the issue.

There are some quality issues that Angela Burns highlighted, and there are some issues around at what level you get the support. I think there are some issues about, if you're an older person living in your home and you have a couple of steps going down to your garden, how you would know how to get hold of that assistance. We're very keen to make sure that we have the right information out there, that people know how to access the assistance, and they have a relatively simple and user-friendly way of getting hold of it. But I don't accept that there are long delays. That's not what the evidence is showing us.

We have invested just short of £3.5 million into core funding for care and repair agencies to support this work, with a view to making sure that we are not having long waits. Long waits are in no-one's interests, as I said in response to Rhun ap Iorwerth. These are both preventative in the sense that they keep people out of expensive secondary and tertiary services, and ameliorative in that they get people back out of those services as fast as possible. So, in terms of value for money, it's an absolute no-brainer to spend the money on this rather than on the more expensive acute services. But if the Member has any specific examples of long delays, again, I'd be very grateful to hear specifics from her, because that's not our general experience.

Nid wyf yn derbyn bod yr amseroedd aros yn anarferol o hir. A dweud y gwir, dros ddau dymor diwethaf y Cynulliad, mae pethau wedi gwella'n sylweddol. Nid wyf yn gwybod ai dros fy ACau cyfagos yn unig rwy'n siarad, ond rydym wedi cael y drafodaeth hon. Yn sicr, pan ddechreuais fel Aelod Cynulliad, roedd gennyf fag post eithaf mawr yn llawn o bobl a oedd yn aros am addasiadau. Yn sicr, nid oes gennyf hynny bellach gan fod y gwasanaeth wedi gwella'n sylweddol. Felly, ni chredaf mai aros yw'r broblem.

Mae Angela Burns wedi tynnu sylw at rai materion ynghylch ansawdd, ac mae rhai problemau i'w cael ynglŷn ag ar ba lefel y byddwch yn cael y cymorth. Os ydych yn unigolyn hŷn sy'n byw yn eich cartref ac mae gennych ychydig o stepiau i lawr i'ch gardd, rwy'n credu bod rhai problemau'n codi o ran sut y byddech yn gwybod sut i gael gafael ar y cymorth hwnnw. Rydym yn awyddus iawn i sicrhau ein bod yn darparu'r wybodaeth gywir, fod pobl yn gwybod sut i gael gafael ar y cymorth, a bod ganddynt ffordd gymharol syml o gael gafael arno. Ond nid wyf yn derbyn bod yna oedi hir. Nid dyna y mae'r dystiolaeth yn ei ddangos i ni.

Rydym wedi buddsoddi bron i £3.5 miliwn mewn cyllid craidd ar gyfer asiantaethau gofal a thrwsio i gefnogi'r gwaith hwn, gyda'r bwriad o sicrhau nad oes gennym amseroedd aros hir. Nid yw amseroedd aros hir o fudd i unrhyw un, fel y dywedais mewn ymateb i Rhun ap Iorwerth. Mae'r rhain yn ataliol yn yr ystyr eu bod yn cadw pobl allan o wasanaethau eilaidd a thrydyddol drud, ac yn wellhaol yn yr ystyr eu bod yn cael pobl allan o'r gwasanaethau hynny cyn gynted â phosibl. Felly, o ran gwerth am arian, mae'n gwbl amlwg y dylid gwario'r arian ar hyn yn hytrach nag ar y gwasanaethau acíwt drytach. Ond os oes gan yr Aelod unrhyw enghreifftiau penodol o amseroedd aros hir, unwaith eto, buaswn yn ddiolchgar iawn i glywed manylion ganddi, am nad dyna yw ein profiad cyffredinol ni.

Argaeledd Tai mewn Awdurdodau Lleol
The Availability of Housing in Local Authorities

5. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am argaeledd tai mewn awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru? OAQ54062

5. Will the Minister make a statement on the availability of housing in local authorities across Wales? OAQ54062

Yes. The need for housing continues to outstrip the number of homes available. With borrowing constraints now removed by Westminster—at long last and after much lobbying by us—and record low interest rates, we are working with local authorities to build at scale and pace, for the first time in a generation, to make more homes available across Wales.

Gwnaf. Mae'r angen am dai yn parhau i fod yn fwy na nifer y cartrefi sydd ar gael. Gyda San Steffan bellach wedi cael gwared ar gyfyngiadau benthyca—o'r diwedd, ac ar ôl llawer o lobïo gennym—a'r cyfraddau llog isaf erioed, rydym yn gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol i adeiladu ar raddfa fawr ac yn gyflym am y tro cyntaf mewn cenhedlaeth i sicrhau bod mwy o gartrefi ar gael ledled Cymru.

Thank you, Minister. As was mentioned here in the Senedd yesterday, we've seen housing developments approved despite them falling outside the settlement boundary of local development plans. A key consideration allowing these is the obvious need for new homes. However, whilst controversial applications are receiving consent, it is true that Wales has an empty property problem. All local authorities in Wales have an empty home strategy and an action plan. Yet, despite this—and I would add that I've been here eight years now, and right from my very first week as an Assembly Member, I was raising concerns about the number of empty properties in Wales that would turn into very good homes for people who are waiting desperately—currently there are around 27,000 private sector and 1,400 social sector empty properties in Wales. Therefore, will you explain what further support you will give to local authorities and other agencies—registered social landlords—to go about helping them to bring these empty properties back into purposeful homes for those who desperately need them?

Diolch, Weinidog. Fel y soniwyd yma yn y Senedd ddoe, rydym wedi gweld datblygiadau tai yn cael eu cymeradwyo er eu bod y tu allan i ffiniau aneddiadau cynlluniau datblygu lleol. Ystyriaeth allweddol sy'n caniatáu hyn yw'r angen amlwg am gartrefi newydd. Fodd bynnag, er bod ceisiadau dadleuol yn cael cydsyniad, mae'n wir fod gan Gymru broblem gydag eiddo gwag. Mae gan bob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru strategaeth gartrefi gwag a chynllun gweithredu. Serch hynny—a buaswn yn ychwanegu fy mod wedi bod yma ers wyth mlynedd bellach, ac ers fy wythnos gyntaf fel Aelod Cynulliad, roeddwn yn mynegi pryderon am nifer yr eiddo gwag yng Nghymru a fyddai'n troi'n gartrefi da iawn i bobl sy'n aros—ar hyn o bryd mae oddeutu 27,000 eiddo gwag yn y sector preifat a 1,400 yn y sector cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Felly, a wnewch chi egluro pa gymorth pellach y byddwch yn ei roi i awdurdodau lleol ac asiantaethau eraill—landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig—i fynd ati i'w helpu i droi'r eiddo gwag hyn yn ôl yn gartrefi pwrpasol i'r rhai sydd eu hangen yn daer?

There's absolutely no excuse whatsoever for anybody in the social housing sector to have a void issue. We provide them with more than sufficient grants to bring those voids back into beneficial use. So, again, if you have specific examples of social housing in that position, I'd be really glad to see it, because there's something going very wrong there. I can assure you that no RSL or LSVT should be in a position where they can't bring their voids back into beneficial use. 

In terms of the private sector, my colleague Lee Waters has been working very hard on a scheme to bring empty properties back into beneficial use by looking at loan schemes and a series of grant schemes so that we can find out why it's empty, find out who the owners are, and then find out what it would need to either buy it off them or bring it back into beneficial use. He's been working very hard on getting a number of pilot schemes running in that area. 

We also encourage local authorities to act properly in terms of their council tax to make sure that they are levying the right amounts of tax on empty homes. It depends why the home is empty and my colleague Rebecca Evans is working very hard on the vacant land tax implications of some of this work. We're very keen that local authorities use all the levers that they have in order to bring homes back into beneficial use. We also have a number of grant schemes. We have schemes designed to bring homes back into beneficial use that private owners can access, and we have schemes for landlords that they can access as well. And if the Member wants to write to me, I'd be more than happy to provide her with details of those schemes. 

Nid oes unrhyw esgus o gwbl fod gan unrhyw un yn y sector tai cymdeithasol broblem ag eiddo gwag. Rydym yn darparu mwy na digon o grantiau iddynt i ddod â'r eiddo gwag hynny yn ôl i ddefnydd buddiol. Felly, unwaith eto, os oes gennych enghreifftiau penodol o dai cymdeithasol yn y sefyllfa honno, buaswn yn falch o'u gweld, gan fod rhywbeth mawr o'i le yno. Gallaf eich sicrhau na ddylai unrhyw landlord cymdeithasol cofrestredig neu gymdeithas drosglwyddo gwirfoddol ar raddfa fawr fod mewn sefyllfa lle na allant ddod â'u tai gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd buddiol.

O ran y sector preifat, mae fy nghyd-Aelod Lee Waters wedi bod yn gweithio'n galed iawn ar gynllun i ddod ag eiddo gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd buddiol drwy edrych ar gynlluniau benthyg a chyfres o gynlluniau grant fel y gallwn ddarganfod pam ei fod yn wag, darganfod pwy yw'r perchnogion, ac yna darganfod beth fyddai ei angen naill ai i'w brynu ganddynt neu ddod ag ef yn ôl i ddefnydd buddiol. Mae wedi bod yn gweithio'n galed iawn i roi nifer o gynlluniau peilot ar waith yn y maes hwnnw.

Rydym hefyd yn annog awdurdodau lleol i weithredu'n briodol mewn perthynas â'u treth gyngor er mwyn sicrhau eu bod yn codi'r symiau cywir o dreth ar gartrefi gwag. Mae'n dibynnu pam fod y cartref yn wag ac mae fy nghyd-Aelod Rebecca Evans yn gweithio'n galed iawn ar oblygiadau rhywfaint o'r gwaith hwn o safbwynt treth ar dir gwag. Rydym yn awyddus iawn i awdurdodau lleol ddefnyddio'r holl ddulliau sydd ganddynt o ddod â chartrefi yn ôl i ddefnydd buddiol. Hefyd, mae gennym nifer o gynlluniau grant. Mae gennym gynlluniau a gynlluniwyd i ddod â chartrefi yn ôl i ddefnydd buddiol y gall perchnogion preifat fanteisio arnynt, ac mae gennym gynlluniau i landlordiaid allu gwneud defnydd ohonynt hefyd. Ac os yw'r Aelod yn dymuno ysgrifennu ataf, rwy'n fwy na pharod i roi manylion y cynlluniau hynny iddi.

14:55

I wonder what role the Minister sees modular housing playing in meeting the needs within local authority areas. I was delighted to be able to join her only recently in Maes Glas in Ynysawdre to look at the Valleys to Coast initiative with modular housing, very much on that theme of houses for life that can be adapted and changed as the years go by. Now, that's being developed by a Port Talbot company, Wernick, who are new to this residential market but have a long pedigree within modular construction. And I just wonder how much more we can do to deal with those issues of quality, homes for life and meeting those massive supply needs that we have with different local authority areas, and building local jobs, I have to say, in Port Talbot and locally with me.   

Tybed pa rôl y mae'r Gweinidog yn gweld tai modiwlar yn ei chwarae yn diwallu anghenion o fewn ardaloedd awdurdodau lleol? Roeddwn yn falch iawn o allu ymuno â hi yn ddiweddar ym Maes Glas yn Ynysawdre i edrych ar fenter Cymoedd i'r Arfordir gyda thai modiwlar ar y thema honno o dai am oes y gellir eu haddasu a'u newid wrth i'r blynyddoedd fynd heibio. Nawr, mae'r gwaith hwnnw'n cael ei ddatblygu gan gwmni o Bort Talbot, Wernick, sy'n newydd i'r farchnad breswyl hon ond sydd â hanes hir ym maes adeiladu modiwlar. A tybed faint yn fwy y gallwn ei wneud i fynd i'r afael â'r materion sy'n ymwneud ag ansawdd, cartrefi am oes a bodloni'r anghenion cyflenwi enfawr sydd gennym gyda gwahanol ardaloedd awdurdodau lleol, ac adeiladu swyddi lleol, rhaid dweud, ym Mhort Talbot ac yn lleol gyda mi.

Yes, that was an excellent scheme and a very good visit, and I was very impressed, as I know Huw Irranca-Davies was, at the speed of construction, the niceness of the house—I can't think of another word, but it's just a really lovely home. But I was also very impressed by the ability to add on another unit if you had a growing family, and to actually pick the whole house up and put it down somewhere else if you needed to. It was a very interesting and, I thought, instructive visit, and he's absolutely right—what we are looking to do in Wales is, using Welsh materials with as low a carbon footprint as is humanly possible, build house to passive standard if at all possible, so the bills are £100 or less a year, using local labour in local factories.

And one of the lovely things about modular factories—I haven't visited that one, but I did visit one in Ynys Môn last week—is that no matter what the weather—and although Ynys Môn is very beautiful, the weather was a little inclement, I think it's fair to say; a bit horizontal rain last week—of course, in the factory it was warm and dry and the people could carry on their jobs, they were not having to work at height, and so on. They were constructing the house that would then have its final stage of construction actually on the site, exactly like the programme we saw. 

So, I actually believe that is the future for housing in Wales and, at the moment, we're about to go out to what's called the third iteration of the innovative housing programme, so that was the fruit of the first part of the programme. That will deliver 1,000 new homes across Wales in the next few years. It's got 45 schemes running, and we expect to learn a lot of lessons about the way that we can build at pace and scale using that kind of modular construction. 

Roedd hwnnw'n gynllun ardderchog ac yn ymweliad da iawn, ac roeddwn yn llawn edmygedd, fel Huw Irranca-Davies, rwy'n gwybod, o gyflymder yr adeiladu, pa mor ddeniadol oedd y tŷ—ni allaf feddwl am air arall, ond mae'n gartref hyfryd iawn. Ond roeddwn hefyd yn llawn edmygedd o'r gallu i ychwanegu uned arall os oedd eich teulu'n tyfu, ac i godi'r tŷ cyfan i fyny a'i osod yn rywle arall pe bai angen. Roedd yn ymweliad hynod ddiddorol ac addysgiadol yn fy marn i, ac mae'n llygad ei le—yr hyn rydym yn gobeithio'i wneud yng Nghymru, drwy ddefnyddio deunyddiau Cymreig ag ôl-troed carbon mor isel â phosibl, yw adeiladu tŷ i safon ynni goddefol os yw hynny'n bosibl, fel bod y biliau'n £100 neu lai bob blwyddyn, gan ddefnyddio gweithwyr lleol mewn ffatrïoedd lleol.

Ac un o'r pethau hyfryd am ffatrïoedd modiwlar—nid wyf wedi ymweld â'r un hwnnw, ond ymwelais ag un ar Ynys Môn yr wythnos diwethaf—ni waeth beth yw'r tywydd—ac er bod Ynys Môn yn hyfryd iawn, credaf ei bod yn deg dweud bod y tywydd braidd yn arw; glaw llorweddol yr wythnos diwethaf—wrth gwrs, yn y ffatri, roedd hi'n gynnes ac yn sych a gallai'r bobl barhau i weithio, nid oedd yn rhaid iddynt weithio ar uchder, ac yn y blaen. Roeddent yn adeiladu'r tŷ a fyddai wedyn yn cael ei godi ar y safle ar y cam olaf, yn union fel y rhaglen a welsom.

Felly, credaf mai dyna ddyfodol tai yng Nghymru, ac ar hyn o bryd, rydym ar fin dechrau'r hyn a elwir yn drydydd iteriad y rhaglen dai arloesol, felly dyna oedd canlyniad rhan gyntaf y rhaglen. Bydd hynny'n darparu 1,000 o gartrefi newydd ledled Cymru dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd nesaf. Mae 45 o gynlluniau ganddo ar waith, ac rydym yn disgwyl dysgu llawer o wersi am y ffordd y gallwn adeiladu ar raddfa fawr ac yn gyflym gan ddefnyddio'r math hwnnw o adeiladu modiwlar.

Ystyriaethau Amgylcheddol yn y System Gynllunio
Environmental Considerations in the Planning System

6. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am y pwys a roddir ar ystyriaethau amgylcheddol yn y system gynllunio? OAQ54075

6. Will the Minister make a statement on the weight given to environmental considerations in the planning system? OAQ54075

Sustainable development is at the heart of the planning system. 'Planning Policy Wales' is clear that environmental issues have parity with social, economic and cultural considerations and, together with technical advice and supporting guidance, provides comprehensive coverage on environmental considerations in the planning system. 

Mae datblygu cynaliadwy'n ganolog i'r system gynllunio. Mae 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru' yn datgan yn glir fod materion amgylcheddol yr un mor bwysig ag ystyriaethau cymdeithasol, economaidd a diwylliannol, ac ynghyd â chyngor technegol a chanllawiau ategol, mae'n rhoi sylw cynhwysfawr i ystyriaethau amgylcheddol yn y system gynllunio.

Diolch i chi am yr ateb, achos dyna yw'r theori, ond rwy'n credu bod y practis damaid bach yn wahanol, oherwydd gan fod y Prif Weinidog wedi dweud yn glir mewn perthynas â'i benderfyniad ynglŷn â'r M4 fod y pwysau mae e wedi'i roi ar ystyriaethau amgylcheddol yn wahanol i'r pwysau roddwyd ar yr ystyriaethau hynny gan yr Arolygiaeth Gynllunio, dwi'n meddwl bod hynny yn amlygu anghysondeb pwysig o fewn y gyfundrefn, ac mae rhywun yn cwestiynu faint o benderfyniadau eraill fyddai wedi bod yn wahanol petai'r arolygydd cynllunio efallai wedi rhoi yr un pwys ar ffactorau amgylcheddol ag yn amlwg y mae'r Prif Weinidog a'r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud erbyn hyn. Felly, sut ydych chi'n bwriadu diwygio neu gywiro canfyddiad anghywir, os caf i ddweud, yr Arolygiaeth Gynllunio ar y weighting sydd angen ei roi ar faterion amgylcheddol, yn enwedig, wrth gwrs, yn sgil datgan argyfwng hinsawdd?   

Thank you for that response, because that’s the theory, but I think the practice is slightly different, because as the First Minister made clear in relation to his decision on the M4 that the weighting that he has given to environmental considerations is different to the weighting given to those considerations by the Planning Inspectorate, I think that does highlight an inconsistency, and an important inconsistency, within the system. One does question how many other decisions would have been different if the Planning Inspectorate had given the same weighting to environmental considerations as the First Minister and the Government clearly do now. So, how do you intend to amend or correct the incorrect perception of the Planning Inspectorate of the weighting that should be given to environmental considerations, particularly given the declaration of a climate emergency?

I take the point the Member's trying to make, but I think it's not entirely a fair one. Obviously, when any individual human being brings a judgment to bear on a set of facts, there's an element of subjectivity in that, no matter how objective the rules are that are set out. And one individual gives slightly different weight to something than another for a variety of reasons. But what we try to do in Wales—and we're about to go out to consultation on the national development framework and, as I said yesterday in my submission about regional working for local authorities, we're putting a strategic planning tier in as well—here in Wales we want to have a plan-led system where local people have a big say in what their local plan says, that we assist them to have that very loud say in what their local plan says—every area should look the way its local people want it to look; that's the point of the planning system—but that there are a set of rules that we agree here in the Assembly and in our various tiers of government that are applied to make sure that people have the right considerations in place. So, this is a set of rules that says that environmental considerations have the same weight as the economic, social and other considerations. That is the weight we expect the inspectorate to put on it, and I just recently spoke to the royal institute of town planners and I made very clear what our expectations were for the places of the future and I made it extremely clear that what we want to see are local, sustainable communities with a sense of place, which value their local environment and their local culture and their local economic arrangements, which have sustainable jobs closer to where they live, in a system that allows us to make the best use of Wales's natural resources—so, very much what you said. But what we're doing is putting the plan-led system in place that would allow that to happen.

Now, ideally, you would have put the national development framework in first, but we are where we are. So, we've got a set of LDPs that are going through review at the moment. We will put the national development framework in place in consultation with the people of Wales over the summer and then we will put the strategic bits in place, and, at each one of those, there will be a loud conversation with the people of Wales to make sure that we have that balance right for them, because people in different places put different emphasis on different types of things, depending on local need.

So, I'm sort of agreeing with you, I think, but the element of subjectivity is necessarily there. So, in the end, the decision maker brings that to bear, but they do it in a way that is compliant with the system that's in place and unchallengeable in the sense that they show that they've put that balance right. But there'll always be nuance in that. So, the individual decision maker will always bring that nuance to it. And that's the case for planning committees and for planning inspectors. We would like to see as many decisions as possible made in the planning committees themselves, in the democratically controlled councils that are elected to do these things, and, if we can get that system right, we will see a diminution of the appeals to the Planning Inspectorate and—Llywydd, if you'll forgive me for going on at length about this, but I think it's an important point—we are also, of course, consulting about separating the planning inspectorate for Wales into a separate body for that exact reason, because we want a planning system in Wales that's fit for Wales's future.

Rwy'n derbyn y pwynt y mae'r Aelod yn ceisio'i wneud, ond ni chredaf ei fod yn gwbl deg. Yn amlwg, pan fydd unrhyw unigolyn yn ffurfio barn ar set o ffeithiau, ceir elfen o oddrychedd yn hynny o beth, ni waeth pa mor wrthrychol yw'r rheolau. Ac mae un unigolyn yn rhoi pwys ychydig yn wahanol i rywbeth arall am amryw o resymau. Ond yr hyn y ceisiwn ei wneud yng Nghymru—ac rydym ar fin ymgynghori ar y fframwaith datblygu cenedlaethol, ac fel y dywedais ddoe yn fy nghyflwyniad am weithio rhanbarthol i awdurdodau lleol, rydym yn rhoi haen gynllunio strategol i mewn hefyd—yma yng Nghymru, rydym yn awyddus i gael system wedi'i harwain gan gynlluniau lle mae gan bobl leol lais cryf yn yr hyn y mae eu cynllun lleol yn ei ddweud, ein bod yn eu cynorthwyo i gael y llais cryf hwn yn yr hyn y mae eu cynllun lleol yn ei ddweud—dylai pob ardal edrych fel y mae ei phobl leol am iddi edrych; dyna bwynt y system gynllunio—ond bod yna set o reolau rydym yn cytuno arnynt yma yn y Cynulliad ac yn ein gwahanol haenau o lywodraeth a ddefnyddir i sicrhau bod gan bobl yr ystyriaethau cywir ar waith. Felly, mae hon yn set o reolau sy'n dweud bod ystyriaethau amgylcheddol yr un mor bwysig â'r ystyriaethau economaidd, cymdeithasol ac yn y blaen. Dyna'r pwysau y disgwyliwn i'r arolygiaeth ei roi ar hyn, ac yn ddiweddar, siaradais â'r sefydliad cynllunio trefol brenhinol a dywedais yn glir iawn beth oedd ein disgwyliadau ar gyfer lleoedd y dyfodol, a dywedais yn glir iawn mai'r hyn rydym am ei weld yw cymunedau lleol, cynaliadwy gydag ymdeimlad o le, sy'n gwerthfawrogi eu hamgylchedd lleol a'u diwylliant lleol a'u trefniadau economaidd lleol, sydd â swyddi cynaliadwy yn agosach at eu cartrefi, mewn system sy'n ein galluogi i wneud y defnydd gorau o adnoddau naturiol Cymru—felly, yr hyn a ddywedasoch, yn bendant iawn. Ond yr hyn rydym yn ei wneud yw rhoi'r system a arweinir gan gynlluniau ar waith er mwyn caniatáu i hynny ddigwydd.

Nawr, yn ddelfrydol, byddech wedi rhoi'r fframwaith datblygu cenedlaethol ar waith yn gyntaf, ond dyma'r sefyllfa rydym ynddi. Felly, mae gennym gyfres o gynlluniau datblygu lleol sy'n cael eu hadolygu ar hyn o bryd. Byddwn yn rhoi'r fframwaith datblygu cenedlaethol ar waith mewn ymgynghoriad â phobl Cymru dros yr haf, ac yna byddwn yn rhoi'r darnau strategol ar waith, ac ym mhob un o'r rheini, bydd sgwrs glir gyda phobl Cymru i sicrhau ein bod yn cael y cydbwysedd hwnnw'n iawn ar eu cyfer hwy, gan fod pobl mewn gwahanol leoedd yn rhoi pwyslais gwahanol ar wahanol fathau o bethau, yn dibynnu ar angen lleol.

Felly, rwy'n credu fy mod yn cytuno â chi, ond mae'r elfen o oddrychedd yno o reidrwydd. Felly, yn y pen draw, yr un sy'n gwneud y penderfyniad sy'n rhoi hynny ar waith, ond maent yn gwneud hynny mewn ffordd sy'n cydymffurfio â'r system sydd ar waith ac na ellir ei herio yn yr ystyr eu bod yn dangos eu bod wedi cael y cydbwysedd hwnnw'n gywir. Ond bydd amrywiadau cynnil o fewn hynny bob amser. Felly, bydd yr un sy'n gwneud y penderfyniad bob amser yn ystyried yr amrywiadau cynnil hynny. Ac mae hynny'n wir ar gyfer pwyllgorau cynllunio ac arolygwyr cynllunio. Hoffem weld cymaint o benderfyniadau â phosibl yn cael eu gwneud yn y pwyllgorau cynllunio eu hunain, yn y cynghorau a reolir yn ddemocrataidd sy'n cael eu hethol i wneud y pethau hyn, ac os gallwn gael y system honno'n iawn, byddwn yn gweld lleihad yn nifer yr apeliadau i'r Arolygiaeth Gynllunio a—Lywydd, os maddeuwch i mi am siarad yn bur faith ar hyn, ond credaf ei fod yn bwynt pwysig—rydym hefyd, wrth gwrs, yn ymgynghori ar wahanu arolygiaeth gynllunio Cymru yn gorff ar wahân am yr union reswm hwnnw, gan ein bod yn awyddus i gael system gynllunio yng Nghymru sy'n addas ar gyfer dyfodol Cymru.

15:00

I'm struggling to think of anything that the Minister could possibly add to that in a supplementary question. [Laughter.] If I could just ask—. You mentioned in the middle of your speech there, Minister, the need to build houses for the future. I've had correspondence with one of my constituents—. I don't want to go into the individual planning applications, but the local authority has turned down a modern eco house—or is in the process of doing that—on the basis that the land within which it's being built also contains a derelict building that they say should be done up first. My constituents have raised a valid point, which is, surely, now that we've got the climate change emergency and we're talking about environmental concerns—is there a need to overhaul planning guidance to local authorities so that the climate emergency and the need for environmental concerns are factored into it at a far greater level, so that, if someone does want to build an eco-friendly house, then surely that should be pushed a little bit higher up the agenda so that we are getting homes that are more helping with the decarbonising agenda?

Rwy'n ei chael yn anodd meddwl am unrhyw beth y gallai'r Gweinidog ei ychwanegu at hynny mewn cwestiwn atodol. [Chwerthin.] Os caf fi ofyn—. Roeddech yn sôn yn eich araith yn awr, Weinidog, fod angen adeiladu tai ar gyfer y dyfodol. Rwyf wedi bod yn gohebu ag un o fy etholwyr—. Nid wyf eisiau trafod y ceisiadau cynllunio unigol, ond mae'r awdurdod lleol wedi gwrthod tŷ eco modern—neu mae yn y broses o wneud hynny—ar y sail fod y tir y mae'n cael ei adeiladu arno hefyd yn cynnwys adeilad adfeiliedig y dylid ei adnewyddu yn gyntaf, yn ôl yr awdurdod. Mae fy etholwyr wedi codi pwynt dilys, sef, yn awr fod gennym argyfwng newid hinsawdd a'n bod yn siarad am bryderon amgylcheddol—a oes angen ailwampio canllawiau cynllunio i awdurdodau lleol fel bod yr argyfwng hinsawdd a'r angen i fynd i'r afael â materion amgylcheddol yn cael eu cynnwys ar lefel lawer uwch, ac felly, os oes rhywun eisiau adeiladu tŷ eco-gyfeillgar, oni ddylai hynny gael ei wthio fymryn yn uwch ar yr agenda fel bod gennym gartrefi sy'n helpu mwy gyda'r agenda ddatgarboneiddio?

Well, I'm not going to comment on the individual planning application, about which I know nothing, and so I'm going to make my remarks much more general. But we changed—. Actually, my colleague Lesley Griffiths, one of the last thing she did as the planning Minister was to issue the new 'Planning Policy Wales' document, which fundamentally changes the planning system in Wales, which, I think—. People are talking about a review; we've just fundamentally changed the system, and, if you haven't read it, I recommend it to you. It is not a dry planning document. It's a very living document, which fundamentally shifts the landscape in Wales that we're talking about, and it does it in the way that you've just outlined. So, it talks about the sustainability of placemaking, it talks about using local resources in the best way, it talks about the development of proper planning processes with local people at the heart of it.

And, as I've just said, we're also putting the rest of that framework into place now. We will shortly be consulting over the summer on the national development framework. I encourage all Assembly Members to engage with that and come back to us with both their own and their constituents' comments on that plan. And, as I said yesterday, I've started to outline a process by which we want local authorities to put the strategic layer of plans in place. People have to be at the heart of that process, because it's their place that they're making and what we want to ensure is that the citizens of Wales feel that their planning system properly represents them. The individual decisions are then made in the light of the weight of the documents that their locality has put in place. So, if you don't engage with your local development plan process, you will not have a say in what those rules are when they come to each individual planning application. So, we need to strengthen that voice because I think often it's the case that a local community only realises when an individual planning application comes forward that there's an issue and they don't engage with the plan part of that process in quite the way we'd like. So, I very much welcome views on how we might get a better engagement so that people own their plan in a much more realistic way.

Wel, nid wyf am wneud sylw ar y cais cynllunio unigol, rhywbeth nad wyf yn gwybod dim amdano, ac felly rwyf am wneud fy sylwadau'n llawer mwy cyffredinol. Ond rydym wedi newid—. A dweud y gwir, un o'r pethau olaf a wnaeth fy nghyd-Aelod Lesley Griffiths fel Gweinidog cynllunio oedd cyhoeddi'r ddogfen 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru' newydd, sy'n newid y system gynllunio yng Nghymru'n sylfaenol, ac sydd, rwy'n credu—. Mae pobl yn sôn am adolygiad; rydym newydd newid y system yn sylfaenol, ac os nad ydych wedi'i ddarllen, rwy'n ei argymell i chi. Nid dogfen gynllunio sych yw hi. Mae'n ddogfen fyw iawn, sy'n symud y tirlun rydym yn sôn amdano yng Nghymru yn sylfaenol, ac mae'n gwneud hynny yn y ffordd rydych newydd ei hamlinellu. Felly, mae'n sôn am gynaliadwyedd creu lleoedd, mae'n sôn am ddefnyddio adnoddau lleol yn y ffordd orau, mae'n sôn am ddatblygu prosesau cynllunio priodol gyda phobl leol yn greiddiol iddynt.

Ac fel rwyf newydd ddweud, rydym hefyd yn rhoi gweddill y fframwaith hwnnw ar waith yn awr. Cyn bo hir, byddwn yn ymgynghori ar y fframwaith datblygu cenedlaethol dros yr haf. Anogaf holl Aelodau'r Cynulliad i ymgysylltu â hwnnw a dod yn ôl atom gyda'u sylwadau eu hunain a sylwadau eu hetholwyr ar y cynllun hwnnw. Ac fel y dywedais ddoe, rwyf wedi dechrau amlinellu proses lle rydym eisiau i awdurdodau lleol roi haen strategol cynlluniau ar waith. Mae'n rhaid i bobl fod wrth wraidd y broses honno, oherwydd eu lle hwy y maent yn ei greu ac rydym eisiau sicrhau bod dinasyddion Cymru'n teimlo bod eu system gynllunio'n eu cynrychioli'n briodol. Yna, gwneir y penderfyniadau unigol yng ngoleuni pwysau'r dogfennau a roddwyd ar waith yn eu hardal leol. Felly, os nad ydych yn ymgysylltu â phroses eich cynllun datblygu lleol, ni fydd gennych lais yn y rheolau hynny pan fyddant yn dod at bob cais cynllunio unigol. Felly, mae angen cryfhau'r llais hwnnw oherwydd, yn aml, credaf nad yw cymuned leol yn sylweddoli bod problem hyd nes y cyflwynir cais cynllunio unigol ac nid ydynt yn ymgysylltu â chynllun y broses honno yn y ffordd y byddem yn ei hoffi. Felly, rwy'n falch iawn o glywed safbwyntiau ynglŷn â sut y gallem sicrhau ymgysylltiad gwell fel bod pobl yn berchen ar eu cynllun mewn ffordd lawer mwy realistig.

15:05

Not only for humans but for animals as well, please. Apart from acting as boundaries and keeping animals inside fields, the hedgerow is an important habitat for a wide variety of animals and plants. As woodlands have been destroyed over the years, a lot of wildlife in them has adapted to living underneath hedgerows and in hedgerows. Will the Minister ensure that, for planning rules, they give due regard to the protection of both the urban and the rural wildlife by conserving and creating the habitats that sustain these creatures?

Nid yn unig ar gyfer pobl ond ar gyfer anifeiliaid hefyd, os gwelwch yn dda. Ar wahân i weithredu fel ffiniau a chadw anifeiliaid y tu mewn i gaeau, mae'r gwrychoedd yn gynefin pwysig i amrywiaeth eang o anifeiliaid a phlanhigion. Wrth i goetiroedd gael eu dinistrio dros y blynyddoedd, mae llawer o'r bywyd gwyllt ynddynt wedi addasu i fyw o dan berthi ac mewn gwrychoedd. A wnaiff y Gweinidog sicrhau, mewn perthynas â rheolau cynllunio, eu bod yn rhoi sylw dyledus i ddiogelu bywyd gwyllt y trefi a'r ardaloedd gwledig drwy warchod a chreu'r cynefinoedd sy'n cynnal y creaduriaid hyn?

Yes. I think that's a very valid point, and, as each local development plan goes through, those are the sorts of considerations that the planners and the councillors in each local area should be giving to the preservation of their local landscape. My colleague the Minister for environment has recently been consulting widely on the protection of countryside—things such as hedgerows—and we will certainly be taking that into account.

Ie. Credaf fod hwnnw'n bwynt dilys iawn, ac wrth i bob cynllun datblygu lleol gael ei gyflwyno, dyna'r mathau o bethau y dylai'r cynllunwyr a'r cynghorwyr ym mhob ardal leol fod yn eu hystyried er mwyn diogelu eu tirwedd leol. Yn ddiweddar, bu fy nghyd-Aelod, Gweinidog yr amgylchedd, yn ymgynghori'n eang ar ddiogelu cefn gwlad—pethau fel gwrychoedd—a byddwn yn sicr yn ystyried hynny.

Datblygiadau o Arwyddocâd Cenedlaethol
Developments of National Significance

7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am y broses gynllunio ar gyfer datblygiadau o arwyddocâd cenedlaethol? OAQ54057

7. Will the Minister make a statement on the planning process for developments of national significance? OAQ54057

Certainly. Developments of national significance is a specific process where defined categories of infrastructure planning applications are made to the Welsh Ministers rather than local planning authorities. Since the process was introduced in 2016, four such applications have been made and were determined within the statutory time frame.

Yn sicr. Mae datblygiadau o arwyddocâd cenedlaethol yn broses benodol lle caiff categorïau diffiniedig o geisiadau cynllunio seilwaith eu cyflwyno i Weinidogion Cymru yn hytrach nag i awdurdodau cynllunio lleol. Ers i'r broses gael ei chyflwyno yn 2016, mae pedwar cais o'r fath wedi'u cyflwyno a'u penderfynu o fewn y terfyn amser statudol.

Thank you for your answer, Minister. There is an impending large-scale incinerator application proposal at Buttington Quarry in Powys, which has prompted me to look at the relevant planning guidance. Now, I was quite surprised to see this proposal because it is in a particular site where there's no other large industry at that rural location. When the application is submitted, the scale of it means that it will be decided under the developments of national significance process. Can I ask you to look at national waste strategy as a whole to ensure that waste is dealt with strategically for Wales's needs, and also in the most environmentally conscious way possible? I think the Welsh Government needs to take some time to consider whether the current processes and rules surrounding large-scale incinerator applications are fit for purpose, and, in doing so, develop a national plan. Having noted the lack of a national plan myself, I certainly feel that a moratorium on all applications for incinerators should be put in place when a full and detailed review is carried out ahead of a plan being developed.

Diolch i chi am eich ateb, Weinidog. Mae cynnig yn yr arfaeth i wneud cais am losgydd mawr yn chwarel Tal-y-bont ym Mhowys, sydd wedi fy ysgogi i edrych ar y canllawiau cynllunio perthnasol. Nawr, cefais fy synnu braidd o weld y cynnig hwn oherwydd ei fod mewn safle penodol lle nad oes unrhyw ddiwydiant mawr arall yn yr ardal wledig honno. Pan fydd y cais yn cael ei gyflwyno, mae ei faint yn golygu y bydd yn cael ei benderfynu o dan broses y datblygiadau o arwyddocâd cenedlaethol. A gaf fi ofyn i chi edrych ar y strategaeth wastraff genedlaethol yn ei chyfanrwydd i sicrhau bod gwastraff yn cael ei drin yn strategol ar gyfer anghenion Cymru, a hefyd yn y ffordd fwyaf amgylcheddol ymwybodol sy'n bosibl? Rwy'n credu bod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru roi rhywfaint o amser i ystyried a yw'r prosesau a'r rheolau cyfredol sy'n ymwneud â cheisiadau am losgyddion mawr yn addas i'r diben, a datblygu cynllun cenedlaethol drwy wneud hynny. Ar ôl sylwi ar ddiffyg cynllun cenedlaethol fy hun, rwy'n sicr yn teimlo y dylid rhoi moratoriwm ar bob cais am losgyddion a chynnal adolygiad llawn a manwl cyn i gynllun gael ei ddatblygu.

I'm not going to comment on the individual application; I don't know anything about it, anyway. As far as I'm aware, it's not being done under the developments of national significance route, but if it is, it is. I'm not aware of it, so I'm not going to comment on that.

My colleague Hannah Blythyn is actually undertaking a review of our 'Towards Zero Waste' strategy with a view to looking again at the circular economy in Wales. And, in her debate response only last week, she talked about the work that we're going to be doing towards that. Certainly, the end disposal of any waste that's remaining will be part of that relook. Obviously, a circular economy wouldn't have any waste in it and so there'd be a falling need for end-of-life disposal of that sort. So, we will be looking again at our 'Towards Zero Waste' policy, with a view to implementing as much of a circular economy in Wales as possible.

Nid wyf am wneud sylwadau ar y cais unigol; nid wyf yn gwybod unrhyw beth amdano beth bynnag. Hyd y gwn i, nid yw'n cael ei wneud o dan y drefn ar gyfer datblygiadau o arwyddocâd cenedlaethol, ond efallai ei fod. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol ohono, felly nid wyf am wneud sylwadau ar hynny.

Mae fy nghyd-Aelod, Hannah Blythyn, yn cynnal adolygiad o'n strategaeth 'Tuag at Ddyfodol Diwastraff', gyda'r bwriad o ailedrych ar yr economi gylchol yng Nghymru. Ac yn ei dadl yr wythnos diwethaf, soniodd am y gwaith y byddwn yn ei wneud tuag at hynny. Yn sicr, bydd gwaredu unrhyw wastraff diwedd oes yn rhan o'r ailystyriaeth honno. Yn amlwg, ni fyddai gan economi gylchol unrhyw wastraff ynddi ac felly byddai llai a llai o angen gwaredu gwastraff terfynol o'r math hwnnw. Felly, byddwn yn ailedrych ar ein polisi 'Tuag at Ddyfodol Diwastraff', gyda'r bwriad o weithredu cymaint o economi gylchol yng Nghymru ag sy'n bosibl.

Addasiadau i Gartrefi
Home Adaptations

8. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i fynd i'r afael â chyflymu'r gwaith o gynllunio a darparu addasiadau i gartrefi? OAQ54061

8. What action is the Welsh Government taking to speed up the planning and delivery of home adaptations? OAQ54061

The rapid delivery of housing adaptations is key to helping people stay independent in their own home. We are working with colleagues in the health services, local authorities and the voluntary sector to tackle the complexity that can sometimes hamper speedy adaptations.

Mae darparu addasiadau i dai yn gyflym yn allweddol i helpu pobl i aros yn annibynnol yn eu cartrefi eu hunain. Rydym yn gweithio gyda chydweithwyr yn y gwasanaethau iechyd, awdurdodau lleol a'r sector gwirfoddol i fynd i'r afael â'r cymhlethdod sy'n gallu rhwystro addasiadau cyflym weithiau.

Thank you, Minister, and, in some ways, this question follows on from the earlier question from Rhun, and you mentioned earlier that we both have just come from an event organised by the Royal College of Occupational Therapists, and they were talking about this very issue. I won't repeat what you and others have already said about the benefits of adaptations, but we all face the challenge of delivering those adaptations in good time, and the royal college are recommending a categorised approach to adaptation work focused on person-centred outcomes, driven by the level of complexity of each person's needs. So, can I therefore ask you: do you broadly endorse the guide to planning and delivering home adaptations differently in Wales from the royal college? And can you tell me whether you'll be working with them to see how the recommendations in their report can be effectively delivered?

Diolch i chi, Weinidog, ac mewn rhai ffyrdd, mae'r cwestiwn hwn yn dilyn y cwestiwn cynharach gan Rhun, a soniasoch yn gynharach ein bod newydd ddod o ddigwyddiad a drefnwyd gan Goleg Brenhinol y Therapyddion Galwedigaethol, a'u bod yn siarad am yr union fater hwn. Ni wnaf ailadrodd yr hyn rydych chi ac eraill eisoes wedi'i ddweud am fanteision addasiadau, ond rydym i gyd yn wynebu'r her o ddarparu'r addasiadau hynny mewn da bryd, ac mae'r coleg brenhinol yn argymell dull o gategoreiddio gwaith addasu sy'n canolbwyntio ar ganlyniadau i'r unigolyn, wedi'u hysgogi gan lefel cymhlethdod anghenion pob unigolyn. Felly, a gaf fi ofyn i chi: a ydych yn cymeradwyo'r canllawiau i gynllunio a darparu addasiadau cartrefi mewn modd gwahanol yng Nghymru i'r coleg brenhinol? Ac a allwch ddweud wrthyf a fyddwch yn gweithio gyda hwy i weld sut y gellir cyflawni'r argymhellion yn eu hadroddiad yn effeithiol?

15:10

Yes, it's very good. I haven't read it all since lunchtime, but I've had a flick through and it certainly does look very good. I very much welcome the guide, which certainly will help housing providers consider how to provide a wider range of adaptations to their tenants, using an assessment that reflects the complexity of a person's needs and the adaptation they require. Obviously, the guide is aimed at reducing delays in the delivery of adaptations by providing tools that support proportionate responses and making more effective use of occupational therapists in particular, since it's done by the Royal College of Occupational Therapists. And it echoes our preventative approach to adaptations that I outlined in my answer to Rhun. I do think that the royal college makes a very pertinent point about the best use of scarce resource.

So, the example that the speaker before me was making was that, if you need a grab rail in your house, then you need somebody who can fit a grab rail and yourself to say where you need it; you do not need an occupational therapist to come and tell you where to put it. What you need is some common sense. On the other hand, if you need adaptations for the way that you get in and out of a complex seat or bed, for example, you may well need an occupational therapist to be able to work out the best way for you to stay as independent as possible. And she was making the valid point that they are best placed to say which of those pieces of advice they would be best placed to give, and there are a range of other experts who need to be involved in that. And, as I said in response to a number of other Members who've raised this issue today, I very much welcome details from around the country, if you have any, of any things that are particularly good, as well as any issues that are coming back. And Julie Morgan and I have had a number of meetings with care and repair agencies in Wales looking at what data is coming back so that we can make the best use of scarce resources.

Ydy, mae'n dda iawn. Nid wyf wedi ei ddarllen i gyd ers amser cinio, ond rwyf wedi ei frasddarllen ac mae'n sicr yn edrych yn dda iawn. Croesawaf y canllaw yn fawr, a bydd yn sicr o helpu darparwyr tai i ystyried sut i ddarparu ystod ehangach o addasiadau i'w tenantiaid, gan ddefnyddio asesiad sy'n adlewyrchu cymhlethdod anghenion unigolyn a'r addasiad sydd ei angen arnynt. Yn amlwg, nod y canllaw yw lleihau oedi wrth ddarparu addasiadau drwy ddarparu offer sy'n cefnogi ymatebion cymesur a gwneud defnydd mwy effeithiol o therapyddion galwedigaethol yn arbennig, gan mai Coleg Brenhinol y Therapyddion Galwedigaethol sy'n ei wneud. Ac mae'n adleisio ein hymagwedd ataliol tuag at addasiadau a amlinellais yn fy ateb i Rhun. Credaf fod y coleg brenhinol yn gwneud pwynt perthnasol iawn am y defnydd gorau o adnoddau prin.

Felly, yr enghraifft roedd y siaradwr o fy mlaen yn ei rhoi oedd, os oes angen canllaw cydio arnoch yn eich tŷ, mae angen rhywun sy'n gallu gosod canllaw cydio a chi i ddweud lle rydych ei angen; nid oes angen therapydd galwedigaethol arnoch i ddod i ddweud wrthych ble i'w roi. Yr hyn sydd ei angen arnoch yw rhywfaint o synnwyr cyffredin. Ar y llaw arall, os oes angen addasiadau arnoch ar gyfer y ffordd rydych yn mynd i mewn ac allan o wely neu sedd gymhleth, er enghraifft, efallai y bydd angen therapydd galwedigaethol arnoch i allu nodi'r ffordd orau i chi allu parhau i fod mor annibynnol â phosibl. Ac roedd yn gwneud y pwynt dilys mai hwy sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i ddweud pa agweddau ar y cyngor hwnnw y byddent yn y sefyllfa orau i'w rhoi, ac mae angen i amrywiaeth o arbenigwyr eraill fod yn rhan o hynny. Ac fel y dywedais mewn ymateb i nifer o Aelodau eraill sydd wedi codi'r mater hwn heddiw, rwy'n croesawu manylion o bob cwr o'r wlad, os oes gennych rai, ynglŷn ag unrhyw bethau sy'n arbennig o dda, yn ogystal ag unrhyw faterion sy'n codi. Ac mae Julie Morgan a minnau wedi cael nifer o gyfarfodydd gydag asiantaethau gofal a thrwsio yng Nghymru i edrych ar ba ddata sy'n dod yn ôl fel y gallwn wneud y defnydd gorau o adnoddau prin.

3. Cwestiynau Amserol
3. Topical Questions

Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r cwestiynau amserol. Mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf i'r Gweinidog Addysg ac mae'r cwestiwn yn cael ei ofyn gan Bethan Sayed.

The next item, therefore, is topical questions. The first question is for the education Minister and the question is to be asked by Bethan Sayed.

Prifysgol Abertawe
Swansea University

1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ymateb i faterion gweinyddol parhaus ym Mhrifysgol Abertawe, gan gynnwys y newyddion diweddar bod y Brifysgol saith mis yn hwyr yn cyhoeddi ei hadroddiad ariannol? 327

1. Will the Minister respond to ongoing administrative issues at Swansea University, including recent news that the University is seven months late publishing its financial report? 327

I met with the chair of the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales yesterday for confirmation that the council is engaging with the university and monitoring its financial position in accordance with the council's regulatory and financial responsibilities. The university, as an independent, autonomous institution, made a public statement about the delayed publication and confirmed it has no bearing on its financial well-being or performance.

Cyfarfûm â chadeirydd Cyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru ddoe i gael cadarnhad fod y cyngor yn ymgysylltu â'r brifysgol ac yn monitro eu sefyllfa ariannol yn unol â chyfrifoldebau rheoleiddio ac ariannol y cyngor. Gwnaeth y brifysgol, fel sefydliad annibynnol, ymreolaethol, ddatganiad cyhoeddus am yr oedi cyn cyhoeddi gan gadarnhau nad yw'n effeithio ar eu perfformiad na'u lles ariannol.

Thank you for the answer. I thought it was important to raise this issue again, given some of the reports that emerged last week, and I appreciate that you've met with HEFCW. But I wanted to put on record that we all value the work that the university does, but that's one of the main reasons why I wanted to raise this again, as has my colleague Helen Mary Jones. And we can't be satisfied with the public statements that have come so far regarding the administrative and management issues at the university. I think that it's our role to scrutinise that particular aspect, and I think it's entirely appropriate for that to happen. Because, as much as any education Minister across the world may say that universities are autonomous bodies, they're also in receipt of public funds, and therefore cannot be above scrutiny or oversight, and, in my view, have a public duty to be more forthright.

So, the suspensions of senior management at the university began late last year, and it's around six months later and we're still not at all clear on the specifics of what happened and why any investigation is still ongoing. If you could provide more clarity on that, it would be much appreciated. Myself and colleagues have been approached by staff at the university who have told us that the investigation is being purposely delayed. Now, I'm not going to comment on the accuracy of that, but that is what they have told me in e-mails. So, an estimate of when we should expect the findings of an investigation and a publication of any report would be welcome, if you could provide it. You've mentioned that you've talked to HEFCW and they're satisfied with the way in which it's carrying out its work, but do you understand that all appropriate stages that are outlined within HEFCW's control have been exhausted, and do you believe that it's not the right time to think about the nature of any intervention that's taken place so far?

I'm also concerned that, to my knowledge, the university court has not been convened this year. Its meeting in February was cancelled, and I was told that a new meeting was being planned for May, but, as far as I know, I haven't had an e-mail telling me when any new meeting takes place, which is where it's an opportunity for AMs to scrutinise them. So, I would like reassurances from you—are you personally satisfied with progress in any investigation, that HEFCW are taking the necessary steps of oversight, and that Swansea University is not having any systematic problems? What time frame would you tolerate as the education Minister in drawing conclusions to any of these investigations?

Just to finish, I think, on a broader level, these incidents, where the public, students and many of the staff of the university are largely unaware of what's happening—I'd like you to comment as to whether you think that's appropriate. I've said before we should have a wider governance review of Welsh universities in terms of the oversight arrangements so that we can understand fully what's happening and that we understand that, given the significant amount of public money involved—that the public and those working at university, more fundamentally, understand what's happening as part of these processes. Because while we understand that you don't have direct control, we also need to understand that we have all of these overarching policies in place where we can scrutinise exactly what's happened here. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch am eich ateb. Roeddwn yn meddwl ei bod yn bwysig codi'r mater hwn eto, o ystyried rhai o'r adroddiadau a ddaeth i'r amlwg yr wythnos diwethaf, ac rwy'n derbyn eich bod wedi cyfarfod â CCAUC. Ond roeddwn am ddweud ar goedd fod pob un ohonom yn gwerthfawrogi'r gwaith y mae'r brifysgol yn ei wneud, ond dyna un o'r prif resymau pam roeddwn yn awyddus i godi hyn eto, fel y gwnaeth fy nghyd-Aelod Helen Mary Jones. Ac ni allwn fod yn fodlon â'r datganiadau cyhoeddus a gafwyd hyd yma ynglŷn â materion gweinyddol a rheoli yn y brifysgol. Credaf mai ein rôl ni yw craffu ar yr agwedd benodol honno, a chredaf ei bod yn gwbl briodol fod hynny'n digwydd. Oherwydd, er y byddai unrhyw Weinidog addysg mewn unrhyw ran o'r byd yn dweud bod prifysgolion yn gyrff ymreolaethol, maent hefyd yn derbyn arian cyhoeddus, ac felly ni allant fod uwchlaw craffu neu oruchwyliaeth, ac yn fy marn i, mae ganddynt ddyletswydd gyhoeddus i fod yn fwy clir.

Felly, dechreuodd y camau i atal yr uwch reolwyr yn y brifysgol dros dro yn hwyr y llynedd, ac oddeutu chwe mis yn ddiweddarach, ceir dryswch o hyd ynglŷn â manylion yr hyn a ddigwyddodd a pham fod unrhyw ymchwiliad yn dal i fynd rhagddo. Pe gallech roi mwy o eglurder ar hynny, byddai hynny'n cael ei werthfawrogi'n fawr. Mae staff yn y brifysgol wedi cysylltu â mi a chyd-Aelodau gan ddweud wrthym fod yr ymchwiliad yn cael ei ohirio'n fwriadol. Nawr, nid wyf am wneud sylwadau ar gywirdeb hynny, ond dyna'r hyn y maent wedi'i ddweud wrthyf mewn e-byst. Felly, byddai amcangyfrif o ran pryd y dylem ddisgwyl canfyddiadau ymchwiliad a chyhoeddi unrhyw adroddiad yn cael ei groesawu, pe gallech ei roi. Rydych wedi sôn eich bod wedi siarad â CCAUC a'u bod yn fodlon â'r ffordd y maent yn cyflawni eu gwaith, ond a ydych yn deall bod yr holl gamau priodol a amlinellir o fewn rheolaeth CCAUC wedi eu cymryd, ac a ydych yn credu nad dyma'r amser i feddwl am natur unrhyw ymyrraeth a ddigwyddodd hyd yma?

Rwyf hefyd yn pryderu nad yw llys y brifysgol, hyd y gwn i, wedi ymgynnull eleni. Cafodd eu cyfarfod ym mis Chwefror ei ganslo, a dywedwyd wrthyf fod cyfarfod newydd yn cael ei gynllunio ar gyfer mis Mai, ond hyd y gwn i, nid wyf wedi cael e-bost yn dweud wrthyf pryd y bydd unrhyw gyfarfod newydd yn cael ei gynnal, sef y man lle caiff Aelodau'r Cynulliad gyfle i graffu arnynt. Felly, hoffwn sicrwydd gennych—a ydych chi'n bersonol yn fodlon â chynnydd mewn unrhyw ymchwiliad, fod CCAUC yn cymryd y camau goruchwylio angenrheidiol, ac nad oes unrhyw broblemau systematig ym Mhrifysgol Abertawe? Pa amserlen y byddech yn ei chaniatáu fel y Gweinidog addysg o ran dod i gasgliadau mewn perthynas ag unrhyw un o'r ymchwiliadau hyn?

I gloi, ar lefel ehangach, credaf nad yw'r digwyddiadau hyn, lle nad yw'r cyhoedd, y myfyrwyr a llawer o staff y brifysgol yn ymwybodol o'r hyn sy'n digwydd—hoffwn i chi wneud sylwadau ynglŷn ag a ydych o'r farn fod hynny'n briodol. Rwyf wedi dweud o'r blaen y dylem gael adolygiad llywodraethu ehangach o brifysgolion Cymru mewn perthynas â'r trefniadau goruchwylio fel y gallwn ddeall yn iawn beth sy'n digwydd a deall, o ystyried y symiau sylweddol o arian cyhoeddus sy'n gysylltiedig â hwy—fod y cyhoedd a'r rheini sy'n gweithio yn y brifysgol yn deall yn iawn beth sy'n digwydd fel rhan o'r prosesau hyn. Oherwydd er ein bod yn deall nad oes gennych reolaeth uniongyrchol, mae angen i ni ddeall hefyd fod gennym yr holl bolisïau trosfwaol hyn ar waith lle gallwn graffu ar beth yn union sydd wedi digwydd yma. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

15:15

Of course I'm aware of the situation at Swansea University and am monitoring the situation and have had regular updates from HEFCW. In my meeting with the chair of the higher education funding council yesterday, I asked a direct question as to whether he and the council had any concerns around the processes that had been employed by Swansea University in dealing with the disciplinary cases that we are all aware of, and the chair confirmed to me that they had no concerns regarding the processes undertaken by Swansea University. I take the chair's word for it when he tells me that.

With regard to a wider governance review of the entirety of the higher education sector, I'm sure the Member is aware of the contents of my remit letter to HEFCW this year, which calls upon them to undertake such a review. That work has already begun, and we will look to work with HEFCW and our institutions in Wales to see that that review strengthens corporate governance in the sector, ahead of, of course, our wider set of post-compulsory education and training reforms where we will look to abolish HEFCW and establish a new commission that will have a regulatory and a governance role, not only for higher education, but also for further education and, indeed, all providers of post-compulsory education in our nation.

Wrth gwrs, rwy'n ymwybodol o'r sefyllfa ym Mhrifysgol Abertawe ac rwy'n monitro'r sefyllfa ac rwyf wedi cael diweddariadau rheolaidd gan CCAUC. Yn fy nghyfarfod â chadeirydd y cyngor cyllido addysg uwch ddoe, gofynnais gwestiwn uniongyrchol ynglŷn ag a oedd ganddo ef a'r cyngor unrhyw bryderon ynghylch y prosesau a ddilynwyd gan Brifysgol Abertawe wrth ymdrin â'r achosion disgyblu y mae pob un ohonom yn ymwybodol ohonynt, a chadarnhaodd y cadeirydd wrthyf nad oedd ganddynt unrhyw bryderon ynghylch y prosesau a ddilynwyd gan Brifysgol Abertawe. Rwy'n derbyn gair y cadeirydd pan ddywed hynny wrthyf.

O ran adolygiad llywodraethu ehangach o'r sector addysg uwch yn ei gyfanrwydd, rwy'n siŵr fod yr Aelod yn ymwybodol o gynnwys fy llythyr cylch gwaith i CCAUC eleni, sy'n galw arnynt i gynnal adolygiad o'r fath. Mae'r gwaith hwnnw eisoes wedi dechrau, ac rydym yn bwriadu gweithio gyda CCAUC a'n sefydliadau yng Nghymru i sicrhau bod yr adolygiad hwnnw'n cryfhau llywodraethu corfforaethol yn y sector, cyn ein set ehangach o ddiwygiadau i addysg ôl-orfodol a hyfforddiant wrth gwrs, lle byddwn yn diddymu CCAUC ac yn sefydlu comisiwn newydd ag iddo rôl reoleiddio a llywodraethu, nid yn unig ar gyfer addysg uwch, ond hefyd ar gyfer addysg bellach, ac yn wir, pob darparwr addysg ôl-orfodol yn ein gwlad.

I agree with Bethan Sayed that once an institution, whether it's an autonomous body or not, is in receipt of public funds, it has an accountability to this place, either through yourself or through us directly. I just want to follow up on the comments you made about the conversations that you've had with HEFCW, because, actually, I think this is where, as an Assembly, we can be asking some questions. You just said that they have no concerns about the processes that Swansea University has been following during this rather sorry period, and you were happy to take their word for it. Well, the fact that we're standing here asking this question shows that there should be some concerns about those processes. What exactly did they tell you that they had done in order to satisfy themselves of the processes that Swansea had followed? Because it may well be that this seven-month delay in putting the accounts forward is the only thing that they've done wrong, but I would be pretty astounded if anyone just took their word for that. So, perhaps you can give us a bit more detail on that.

The university, of course, in recent years, has done phenomenally well in improving its status and its reputation throughout the world, and the work that it's done has done nothing but impress me in recent years. However, in 2016-17, its income from student sources had already started to fall, which made me wonder whether, perhaps, some of the more recent bad news, if you like, had started to affect confidence in the institution. So, I'm wondering if you've got any views on this issue of confidence in the good name of the university, not least because it is one of the major players in the Swansea bay city deal. So, this is not just about the learners and their individual futures, because it's not just student money that's going into this place at the moment. There's UK Government, Welsh Government and private sector money all being put into the city deal on the basis that this is a fantastic institution with whom they can do business. Obviously, we don't want to undermine that, so perhaps you can give us a little bit of reassurance on that front.

And then finally from me, it's been a stated ambition of the university to make major investment in its estate that will dominate its financial position for the next 10 years. Now, we're talking about long-term investment, particularly in capital estate here. The fact that we haven't got a one-year financial report submitted in time is a cause for concern longer term as well, in that case. And then I just go back to that initial question about what it was that you did ask HEFCW, because if they're not worried about that specific financial question, then I would be worried. Thank you.

Cytunaf â Bethan Sayed fod sefydliad, boed yn gorff ymreolaethol ai peidio, pan fo'n derbyn arian cyhoeddus, yn atebol i'r lle hwn, naill ai drwoch chi neu drwom ni yn uniongyrchol. Rwyf am eich holi ynglŷn â'r sylwadau a wnaethoch am y trafodaethau a gawsoch gyda CCAUC, oherwydd, mewn gwirionedd, credaf mai yma, fel Cynulliad, yw'r man lle gallwn fod yn gofyn rhai cwestiynau. Dywedoch nad oes ganddynt unrhyw bryderon am y prosesau a ddilynwyd gan Brifysgol Abertawe yn ystod y cyfnod brawychus hwn, ac roeddech yn fodlon derbyn eu gair ynghylch hynny. Wel, mae'r ffaith ein bod yn sefyll yma yn gofyn y cwestiwn hwn yn dangos y dylid pryderu rhywfaint am y prosesau hynny. Beth yn union a ddywedasant wrthych ynglŷn â'r hyn roeddent wedi'i wneud i fod yn fodlon â'r prosesau a ddilynwyd gan Abertawe? Oherwydd mae'n ddigon posibl mai'r cyfnod hwn o saith mis o oedi cyn cyflwyno'r cyfrifon yw'r unig beth y maent wedi'i wneud yn anghywir, ond buaswn yn synnu pe bai unrhyw un yn derbyn eu gair am hynny. Felly, efallai y gallwch roi rhagor o fanylion inni ynglŷn â hynny.

Dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf wrth gwrs, mae'r brifysgol wedi gwneud yn arbennig o dda o ran gwella ei statws a'i henw da ledled y byd, ac mae'r gwaith a wnaeth wedi creu argraff dda arnaf dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Fodd bynnag, yn 2016-17, roedd ei hincwm o ffynonellau myfyrwyr eisoes wedi dechrau gostwng, a gwnaeth hynny i mi feddwl tybed a oedd rhywfaint o'r newyddion drwg mwy diweddar, os mynnwch, wedi dechrau effeithio ar hyder yn y sefydliad. Felly, tybed a oes gennych unrhyw farn ar y mater hwn o hyder yn enw da'r brifysgol, yn enwedig gan ei bod yn chwarae rhan bwysig ym margen ddinesig bae Abertawe. Felly, mae hyn yn ymwneud â mwy na'r dysgwyr a'u dyfodol fel unigolion, gan nad arian myfyrwyr yn unig sy'n mynd i'r lle hwn ar hyn o bryd. Mae arian gan Lywodraeth y DU, Llywodraeth Cymru a'r sector preifat yn mynd i'r fargen ddinesig ar y sail fod hwn yn sefydliad gwych y gallant wneud busnes ag ef. Yn amlwg, nid ydym am danseilio hynny, felly efallai y gallwch roi ychydig o sicrwydd inni ar hynny o beth.

Ac yn olaf gennyf fi, mae'r brifysgol wedi datgan uchelgais i wneud buddsoddiad sylweddol yn ei hystâd a fydd yn dominyddu ei sefyllfa ariannol am y 10 mlynedd nesaf. Nawr, rydym yn sôn am fuddsoddiad hirdymor, yn enwedig o ran ystâd gyfalaf yma. Os felly, mae'r ffaith nad oes gennym adroddiad ariannol un flwyddyn wedi'i gyflwyno mewn pryd yn achos pryder yn y tymor hwy hefyd. Ac yna rwy'n dychwelyd at y cwestiwn cychwynnol hwnnw ynglŷn â beth yn union y gofynnoch chi i CCAUC, oherwydd os nad ydynt yn poeni am y cwestiwn ariannol penodol hwnnw, fe fuaswn i'n poeni. Diolch.

15:20

HEFCW have no concerns over the financial status and stability of the institution. Their risk board, I understand, meets next month, and I was given no indication that they will change their attitude and their rating of Swansea University as a result. Clearly, they are engaged with Swansea around the late publication of financial statements. As you will be aware, the university has made a public statement saying that the reasons behind the delay have no bearing on its financial well-being or performance. Rather, the delay is due to the further work being required related to an internal audit, and the ongoing internal inquiry at the university. HEFCW is engaged with the university to monitor the cause of the delay, and it is important that they are then able to address the issues as soon as possible, relating to the internal investigation, after which they will then be in a position to publish their financial statements.

With regard to that process, I have not been presented with any evidence to suggest to me that the processes undertaken by the registrar at Swansea University are the incorrect processes, and HEFCW are satisfied themselves and have reported to me that they believe that the processes undertaken by the registrar and the university are the correct processes. Clearly, when dealing with such sensitive personnel issues related to individuals' livelihoods and reputations, those processes need to be robust and they need to be fair, and sometimes they take longer to work their way through the various stages than perhaps any of us would like. But I am clear and I have not been presented with any evidence that suggests that the processes that have been undertaken have been unfair or have not followed correct procedures.

Can I associate myself with the comments the Member made about the success of Swansea University? The university has performed extremely strongly in a whole variety of ways—academically, and the impact that it's had on the city has been significant. I am confident that the university will continue to play a really, really important role, not just in educating its students but helping us to develop our research capacity to be able to help provide meaningful employment opportunities and business opportunities within the city and the region. I understand from colleagues that issues around the city deal are moving forward.

Nid oes gan CCAUC unrhyw bryderon ynghylch statws ariannol a sefydlogrwydd y sefydliad. Bydd eu bwrdd risg, yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, yn cyfarfod y mis nesaf, ac ni chefais unrhyw arwydd y byddant yn newid eu hagwedd a'u graddiad o Brifysgol Abertawe o ganlyniad. Yn amlwg, maent yn ymgysylltu ag Abertawe ynghylch cyhoeddi datganiadau ariannol yn hwyr. Fel y gwyddoch, mae'r brifysgol wedi gwneud datganiad cyhoeddus yn dweud nad yw'r rhesymau y tu ôl i'r oedi yn effeithio ar ei lles na'i pherfformiad ariannol. Yn hytrach, mae'r oedi'n deillio o ganlyniad i'r angen am waith pellach sy'n ymwneud ag archwiliad mewnol, a'r ymchwiliad mewnol parhaus yn y brifysgol. Mae CCAUC yn ymgysylltu â'r brifysgol i fonitro achos yr oedi, ac mae'n bwysig eu bod wedyn yn gallu mynd i'r afael â'r problemau cyn gynted â phosibl, mewn perthynas â'r ymchwiliad mewnol, ac yna byddant mewn sefyllfa i gyhoeddi eu datganiadau ariannol.

O ran y broses honno, nid wyf wedi cael unrhyw dystiolaeth i awgrymu bod y prosesau a ddilynwyd gan y cofrestrydd ym Mhrifysgol Abertawe yn brosesau anghywir, ac mae CCAUC yn fodlon ac wedi dweud wrthyf eu bod o'r farn mai'r prosesau a ddilynwyd gan y cofrestrydd a'r brifysgol yw'r prosesau cywir. Yn amlwg, wrth ymdrin â materion personél sensitif o'r fath sy'n ymwneud â bywoliaeth ac enw da unigolion, mae angen i'r prosesau hynny fod yn gadarn ac mae angen iddynt fod yn deg, ac weithiau, mae'n cymryd mwy o amser i weithio drwy'r gwahanol gamau nag y byddai unrhyw un ohonom yn dymuno. Ond rwy'n glir ac nid wyf wedi gweld unrhyw dystiolaeth sy'n awgrymu bod y prosesau a ddilynwyd wedi bod yn annheg neu heb ddilyn y gweithdrefnau cywir.

A gaf fi eilio'r sylwadau a wnaeth yr Aelod am lwyddiant Prifysgol Abertawe? Mae'r brifysgol wedi perfformio'n eithriadol o gryf mewn amrywiaeth eang o ffyrdd—yn academaidd, ac mae'r effaith y mae wedi'i chael ar y ddinas wedi bod yn sylweddol. Rwy'n hyderus y bydd y brifysgol yn parhau i chwarae rôl wirioneddol bwysig, nid yn unig wrth addysgu ei myfyrwyr ond wrth ein helpu i ddatblygu ein capasiti ymchwil i allu darparu cyfleoedd cyflogaeth ystyrlon a chyfleoedd busnes yn y ddinas a'r rhanbarth. Deallaf gan gydweithwyr fod materion sy'n ymwneud â'r fargen ddinesig yn symud yn eu blaenau.

Diolch i'r Gweinidog. Mae'r cwestiwn nesaf i'w ateb gan Ddirprwy Weinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth, ac mae'r cwestiwn gan Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Minister. The next question is to be answered by the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport, and the question is from Andrew R.T. Davies.

Allied Bakeries
Allied Bakeries

2. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u cael gydag Allied Bakeries yng ngoleuni cyhoeddiad y cwmni y bydd yn atal y gwaith cynhyrchu yn ei safle yn y Mynydd Bychan yng Nghaerdydd, gan roi 180 o swyddi mewn perygl? 328

2. What discussions has the Minister had with Allied Bakeries in light of the company's announcement that it's to halt production at its Heath site in Cardiff, putting 180 jobs at risk? 328

Well, Llywydd, this is clearly very disappointing news for the company and its workforce, and our thoughts are with the families and the employees at this difficult time. Welsh Government officials spoke to the business yesterday and are ready to support all affected staff through our Working Wales programmes, Jobcentre Plus, and the citizens advice bureau.

Wel, Lywydd, mae hwn yn amlwg yn newyddion siomedig iawn i'r cwmni a'i weithlu, ac rydym yn cydymdeimlo â'r teuluoedd a'r gweithwyr yn ystod y cyfnod anodd hwn. Siaradodd swyddogion Llywodraeth Cymru â'r busnes ddoe ac maent yn barod i gefnogi'r holl staff yr effeithir arnynt drwy ein rhaglenni Cymru'n Gweithio, y Ganolfan Byd Gwaith, a'r ganolfan cyngor ar bopeth.

Thank you for that answer, Deputy Minister. As you said, this is very disappointing news to say the least in an area that has lost substantial jobs over recent years: Barclays and Tesco, for example, and now this particular site, which has been a bakery for many decades—not just years, but many decades. It is an announcement that obviously they're looking to reconfigure the site and turn it into a distribution hub, so there will be a retention of jobs if the proposals go through the consultation process and are agreed. But can you confirm, Deputy Minister, whether there were any approaches to Welsh Government to see whether there might be support available to retain manufacturing capacity here? As I understand it, the manufacturing capacity is moving to other sites that the company owns in the UK.

Secondly, from those conversations that you have had with the company—or your officials have had with the company—has the company taken up the Welsh Government's offer to support workers in this transition, which I appreciate is subject to consultation, and obviously that process has to be undertaken? But, by the announcement, there do seem to be—regrettably, if it's carried out—significant job losses, so it's important that workers at the plant fully understand that that support will be made available at the earliest opportunity, and that the company is allowing access to Welsh Government support, should it be required.

Diolch am eich ateb, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Fel y dywedoch, mae hwn yn newyddion siomedig iawn a dweud y lleiaf mewn ardal sydd wedi colli cryn dipyn o swyddi dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf: Barclays a Tesco, er enghraifft, a'r safle hwn bellach, sydd wedi bod yn fecws ers sawl degawd—nid blynyddoedd yn unig, ond sawl degawd. Mae'n gyhoeddiad sy'n dweud wrth gwrs eu bod yn bwriadu ad-drefnu'r safle a'i droi'n ganolfan ddosbarthu, felly bydd swyddi'n cael eu cadw os bydd y cynigion yn mynd drwy'r broses ymgynghori ac yn cael eu derbyn. Ond a allwch gadarnhau, Ddirprwy Weinidog, p'un a gafwyd unrhyw gysylltiad â Llywodraeth Cymru i weld a allai fod cefnogaeth ar gael i gadw capasiti gweithgynhyrchu yma? Hyd y gwelaf, mae'r capasiti gweithgynhyrchu yn symud i safleoedd eraill y mae'r cwmni'n berchen arnynt yn y DU.

Yn ail, o'r sgyrsiau hynny rydych wedi'u cael gyda'r cwmni—neu'r sgyrsiau y mae eich swyddogion wedi'u cael gyda'r cwmni—a yw'r cwmni wedi derbyn cynnig Llywodraeth Cymru i gefnogi gweithwyr yn ystod y cyfnod pontio hwn, sy'n destun ymgynghoriad, rwy'n cydnabod hynny, ac yn amlwg, mae'n rhaid cyflawni'r broses honno? Ond yn ôl y cyhoeddiad, ymddengys—yn anffodus, os yw'n digwydd—y bydd nifer sylweddol o swyddi'n cael eu colli, felly mae'n bwysig fod gweithwyr yn y ffatri yn deall yn iawn y bydd y gefnogaeth honno ar gael iddynt cyn gynted â phosibl, a bod y cwmni'n caniatáu mynediad at gymorth Llywodraeth Cymru, pe bai ei angen.

15:25

Thank you for that question. As I said, we share the disappointment of the Bakers, Food and Allied Workers Union, who are deeply disappointed with the news too. As far as we understand it, this is a straightforward commercial decision. The nature of the market for bread has changed. Demand has reduced as people's diets are changing and people are eating less bread. The company, therefore, is looking to consolidate its production on other sites to make sure that all of its units are profitable.

We are pleased that they are, at least, going to be retaining a significant number of jobs on the site to make it into a logistics hub. We will be working with the company, as I mentioned, through our Working Wales and Jobcentre Plus projects to see if we can find employment for those who face redundancy if, as you say, the consultation continues as we anticipate it will. As we do have a developed sector in the Welsh Government on food and drink, we are going to see what we can do to match those people who may be laid off into other jobs in the existing sector, to make sure that those skills aren’t lost to the Welsh economy or to the industry.

Diolch am eich cwestiwn. Fel y dywedais, rydym yn rhannu siom Undeb y Pobyddion, Gweithwyr Bwyd a Gweithwyr Perthynol, sy'n siomedig iawn gyda'r newyddion hefyd. Hyd y gwelwn, mae hwn yn benderfyniad masnachol syml. Mae natur y farchnad ar gyfer bara wedi newid. Mae'r galw wedi lleihau wrth i ddeiet pobl newid ac mae pobl yn bwyta llai o fara. Mae'r cwmni, felly, yn awyddus i atgyfnerthu eu gwaith cynhyrchu ar safleoedd eraill i sicrhau bod eu holl unedau'n gwneud elw.

Rydym yn falch o leiaf eu bod yn mynd i gadw nifer sylweddol o swyddi ar y safle i'w droi yn ganolfan logisteg. Byddwn yn gweithio gyda'r cwmni, fel y soniais, drwy ein prosiectau Cymru'n Gweithio a'r Ganolfan Byd Gwaith i weld a allwn ddod o hyd i swyddi i'r rhai sy'n wynebu colli swyddi os yw'r ymgynghoriad, fel y dywedwch, yn parhau fel y disgwyliwn iddo wneud. Gan fod gennym sector datblygedig yn Llywodraeth Cymru ar fwyd a diod, rydym am weld beth y gallwn ei wneud i sicrhau swyddi eraill yn y sector presennol ar gyfer y bobl a allai gael eu diswyddo, er mwyn sicrhau nad yw'r sgiliau hynny'n cael eu colli o economi Cymru neu'r diwydiant.

Daeth Joyce Watson i’r Gadair.

Joyce Watson took the Chair.

I'm also very concerned about the workers at Allied Bakeries, where there has been, as we've heard, a very long tradition of baking on and near that site in that part of Cardiff, and I'm pleased to hear the Deputy Minister talking about the need to focus on the skills that the workers have there. While it would be positive if jobs are kept there in a distribution centre, that's not the same as the skills that have been developed over many years in baking. These are very skilled workers.

This is the latest piece of bad news after many instances of job losses and threats to jobs in the south-east of Wales. Even in the capital city, this is a significant number of jobs. One must consider the pressure that this puts on the Government's ability to deal with these announcements by various companies in terms of putting various schemes into place, working with Jobcentre Plus, working with implementing ReAct schemes, and so on. Will the Minister give an assurance that thought will be given—and consideration will be given—to providing additional resources and increasing the capacity within Welsh Government in order to deal with blow after blow, and to make sure that workers, wherever they are affected in the Welsh economy, are given the support that they need to look for new employment?

Rwy'n bryderus iawn hefyd am y gweithwyr yn Allied Bakeries, lle bu traddodiad hir iawn o bobi ar y safle hwnnw, fel y clywsom, ac yn agos ato yn y rhan honno o Gaerdydd, ac rwy'n falch o glywed y Dirprwy Weinidog yn siarad am yr angen i ganolbwyntio ar y sgiliau sydd gan y gweithwyr yno. Er y byddai'n gadarnhaol pe bai swyddi'n cael eu cadw yno mewn canolfan ddosbarthu, nid yw hynny yr un fath â'r sgiliau sydd wedi'u datblygu dros flynyddoedd lawer ym maes pobi. Mae'r rhain yn weithwyr medrus iawn.

Dyma'r newyddion drwg diweddaraf ar ôl llawer o achosion o golli swyddi a bygythiadau i swyddi yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru. Hyd yn oed yn y brifddinas, mae'n nifer sylweddol o swyddi. Mae'n rhaid ystyried y pwysau y mae'n ei roi ar allu'r Llywodraeth i ymdrin â'r cyhoeddiadau hyn gan amryw gwmnïau o safbwynt rhoi cynlluniau amrywiol ar waith, gweithio gyda'r Ganolfan Byd Gwaith, gweithio ar weithredu cynlluniau ReAct, ac yn y blaen. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi sicrwydd y rhoddir ystyriaeth i ddarparu adnoddau ychwanegol a chynyddu'r capasiti yn Llywodraeth Cymru i ymdrin ag ergyd ar ôl ergyd, a sicrhau bod gweithwyr, lle bynnag yr effeithir arnynt yn economi Cymru, yn cael y gefnogaeth sydd ei hangen arnynt i chwilio am gyflogaeth newydd?

Certainly, we announced yesterday in the supplementary budget that we are increasing resources to be able to be nimble enough to respond to the changing needs of the economy as we hit increasingly turbulent times. But certainly in this case, this is simply a matter of the market changing. This was a factory, as I understand it, that produced bread. It didn't produce other pastries or higher premium products. As the company made clear in the press quotes, they lost a contract for an own-label bread supply to a supermarket and, simply, demand is shifting, and there is simply not the work for the company as a whole to justify keeping as many bread-producing factories running. So, I don't think that there's a great deal that the Government can do in situations like that. This is the nature of the market. However, there are things that we can do to make sure, as I said, that the skills of the Welsh workers are redeployed to make sure that our food and drink sector remains vibrant and viable.  

Yn sicr, cyhoeddasom ddoe yn y gyllideb atodol ein bod yn cynyddu adnoddau er mwyn gallu bod yn ddigon hyblyg i ymateb i anghenion newidiol yr economi wrth i ni ymdopi â chyfnod mwyfwy cythryblus. Ond yn sicr yn yr achos hwn, mater yw hwn o newid yn y farchnad yn unig. Yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, roedd hon yn ffatri a oedd yn cynhyrchu bara. Nid oedd yn cynhyrchu cacennau eraill na chynhyrchion premiwm uwch. Fel y dywedodd y cwmni'n glir yn y dyfyniadau yn y wasg, fe wnaethant golli contract i gyflenwi bara i archfarchnad o dan eu label eu hunain, ac yn syml, mae'r galw'n newid, ac nid oes digon o waith i'r cwmni yn ei gyfanrwydd i gyfiawnhau cadw cymaint o ffatrïoedd sy'n cynhyrchu bara ar agor. Felly, ni chredaf fod llawer y gall y Llywodraeth ei wneud mewn sefyllfaoedd fel hynny. Dyma natur y farchnad. Fodd bynnag, mae pethau y gallwn eu gwneud i sicrhau, fel y dywedais, fod sgiliau gweithwyr Cymru yn cael eu hadleoli i sicrhau bod ein sector bwyd a diod yn parhau i fod yn fywiog ac yn hyfyw.

4. Datganiadau 90 Eiliad
4. 90-second Statements

I'm going to move on now to the 90-second statements. The first 90-second statement is by Elin Jones, celebrating 50 years of Sali Mali.

Rwy'n mynd i symud ymlaen yn awr at y datganiadau 90 eiliad. Daw'r datganiad 90 eiliad cyntaf gan Elin Jones, i ddathlu 50 mlynedd o Sali Mali.

Mae Sali Mali yn 50 oed heddiw. Ar y dydd hwn yn 1969, cyhoeddwyd y llyfr cyntaf Sali Mali gan Gymdeithas Lyfrau Ceredigion, fel rhan o gyfres Darllen Stori. Yn y dyddiau hynny, mi oedd llyfrau darllen i blant bach yn y Gymraeg yn bethau prin iawn, ac fe fues i, fel eraill, yn lwcus iawn i ddysgu darllen drwy gymorth Sali Mali.

Creadigaeth Mary Vaughan Jones oedd Sali Mali, a Rowena Wyn Jones oedd yr arlunydd. Am gyfraniad gan y ddwy yma i’r Gymraeg ac i ddarllen, drwy greu cymeriad mor hirhoedlog, ac a gydiodd yn nychymyg cenedlaethau o blant bach a’u hathrawon hyd heddiw. Mary Vaughan Jones hefyd oedd yn gyfrifol am gymeriadau Jac y Jwc, y Pry Bach Tew a Jaci Soch. Rhain oedd ffrindiau fy mhlentyndod i, ac mae meddwl amdanynt hyd heddi yn twymo fy nghalon.

Daeth Sali Mali hefyd yn tv superstar, drwy animeiddio a thrwy gyfres Caffi Sali Mali ar S4C. Ifana Savill ysgrifennodd y cyfresi teledu, a hi a’i gŵr sefydlodd Pentref Bach ym Mlaenpennal, Ceredigion, a ddaeth yn set deledu ac yn ganolfan wyliau ar gyfer teuluoedd, er mwyn i’r plant fyw bywyd Sali Mali.

Daeth Sali Mali i ymweld â’r Senedd ac eistedd yn sedd y Llywydd yn ystod Eisteddfod yr Urdd yn ddiweddar, a heno mi fyddwn yn goleuo y Senedd yn oren i ddathlu ei phen-blwydd. Diolch i'r rhai a gafodd y weledigaeth i'w chreu, a phen-blwydd hapus, Sali Mali.

Sali Mali is 50 today. On this day in 1969, the first Sali Mali book was published by Cymdeithas Lyfrau Ceredigion, as part of the Darllen Stori series. In those days, books in the Welsh language for young children were very rare indeed and I, like others, was very lucky to be able to learn to read with the help of Sali Mali.

Sali Mali was the creation of Mary Vaughan Jones, and Rowena Wyn Jones was the illustrator. What a contribution by these two to the Welsh language and to reading by creating a character with such longevity, who captured the imagination of generations of young children and their teachers, and do so to this day. Mary Vaughan Jones was also responsible for the characters Jac y Jwc, y Pry Bach Tew and Jaci Soch. These were my childhood friends, and thinking about them today warms my heart.

Sali Mali also became a tv superstar, through animated series and the Caffi Sali Mali series on S4C. Ifana Savill wrote the television series, and it was she and her husband who established Pentref Bach in Blaenpennal in Ceredigion, which became a television set and a holiday destination for families, so that children could live Sali Mali’s life.

Sali Mali visited the Senedd and sat in the Llywydd’s chair during the Urdd Eisteddfod recently, and tonight the Senedd will be bathed in orange to celebrate her birthday. Thank you to those who had the vision to create her, and happy birthday, Sali Mali.

15:30

And the next 90-second statement to follow that is Mick Antoniw on World Humanist Day, 21 June 2019. 

A daw'r datganiad 90 eiliad nesaf i ddilyn hynny gan Mick Antoniw ar Ddiwrnod Dyneiddiaeth y Byd, 21 Mehefin 2019.

Thank you for that. In a world of increasing intolerance and division, and in a world undergoing dramatic technological and social change, it is sometimes easy to become entrenched in narrow beliefs and to ignore the expanse of thought and imagination and the commonality of libertarian belief that there is in the world, whether that be related to a belief in God or a rational belief in none. Humanism is the outcome of a long tradition of free thought that has inspired many of the world’s greatest thinkers and creative artists and science itself.

Humanism is ethical. It affirms the worth, dignity and autonomy of the individual and the right of every human being to the greatest possible freedom compatible with the rights of others. In many respects, humanism has similarities to religion.  However, the key difference is that humanists recognise that the power to resolve problems lies exclusively in our hands, through rational analysis and the use of science.

Those who are not religious have much to contribute to the values on which our society is based and to its future direction. By fully recognising humanism as a civic ethic in all our social and public institutions, we can harness the potential of unencumbered thought for the benefit of all.

So, on Friday, we celebrate World Humanist Day, when we recognise our common humanity and obligations to one another. It is a day for promoting and celebrating the progressive values of humanism as a philosophical life stance and means to effect peaceful, collective and consensual change in the world. 

Diolch. Mewn byd o anoddefgarwch a rhaniadau cynyddol, ac mewn byd sy'n wynebu newid technolegol a chymdeithasol dramatig, weithiau mae'n hawdd gadael i gredoau cul ymwreiddio ac anwybyddu ehangder syniadau a dychymyg a chyffredinrwydd y credoau libertaraidd sydd i'w cael yn y byd, boed hynny'n gysylltiedig â chred mewn Duw neu gred resymol nad oes Duw. Mae dyneiddiaeth yn ganlyniad i draddodiad hir o feddwl rhydd sydd wedi ysbrydoli llawer o feddylwyr gorau'r byd ac artistiaid creadigol a gwyddoniaeth ei hun.

Mae dyneiddiaeth yn foesegol. Mae'n cadarnhau gwerth, urddas ac ymreolaeth yr unigolyn a hawl pob unigolyn i'r rhyddid mwyaf posibl sy'n gydnaws â hawliau pobl eraill. Mewn sawl ffordd, mae dyneiddiaeth yn debyg i grefydd. Fodd bynnag, y gwahaniaeth allweddol yw bod dyneiddwyr yn cydnabod mai yn ein dwylo ni yn unig y mae'r pŵer i ddatrys problemau, drwy ddadansoddi rhesymegol a'r defnydd o wyddoniaeth.

Mae gan y rhai nad ydynt yn grefyddol lawer i'w gyfrannu at y gwerthoedd sy'n sail i'n cymdeithas a'i chyfeiriad yn y dyfodol. Drwy gydnabod dyneiddiaeth yn llawn fel moeseg ddinesig ym mhob un o'n sefydliadau cymdeithasol a chyhoeddus, gallwn harneisio potensial meddwl dilestair er budd pawb.

Felly, ddydd Gwener, rydym yn dathlu Diwrnod Dyneiddiaeth y Byd, pan fyddwn yn cydnabod ein dynoliaeth gyffredin a'n rhwymedigaethau i'n gilydd. Mae'n ddiwrnod ar gyfer hybu a dathlu gwerthoedd blaengar dyneiddiaeth fel ymagwedd athronyddol tuag at fywyd a dull o sicrhau newid heddychlon, cyfunol a chydsyniol yn y byd.

And the next 90-second statement will be from Vikki Howells on LGBT Pride Month 2019 and the twentieth anniversary of the very first Cardiff Pride. 

A daw'r datganiad 90 eiliad nesaf gan Vikki Howells ar Fis Pride Pobl Lesbiaidd, Hoyw, Ddeurywiol a Thrawsrywiol 2019 a'r ugeinfed mlynedd ers digwyddiad Pride cyntaf Caerdydd.

June is LGBT Pride Month, and an occasion for LGBT+ people to celebrate advances in their rights around the world. It's also a chance to raise awareness of current issues facing the community. 2019’s event is particularly poignant, coming as it does in the month marking the fiftieth anniversary of the Stonewall riots.

Closer to home, there is also a significance to Pride this year, as Pride Cymru celebrates its twentieth anniversary. The first such event, then Cardiff Mardi Gras, took place in September 1999 and it drew 5,000 people to Cooper's Field in the heart of the city. In the period since, there have been ups and downs. But thanks to the persistence of volunteers, Pride Cymru as it was re-branded in a potent symbol of its national importance, has grown in strength. It now hosts 50,000 participants over three days, bringing visitors from all around Wales, the UK, and indeed the world, into the city, generating over £2.5 million for the local economy, and seeing 16,000 people marching through Cardiff in the cause of equality—the march itself being a much-loved addition since 2012.

2019 will see Pride Cymru gain its place as the fifth largest Pride in the UK. It will also look ahead to EuroPride 2025, which Cardiff will host, and which has just attracted 0.5 million people to Vienna, this year’s venue. But, as both Cardiff Pride and the National Assembly for Wales celebrate their twentieth birthdays, there is a chance for us to reflect on the association between devolution and equality.

Mis Mehefin yw Mis Pride LHDT, ac mae'n achlysur i bobl LHDT+ ddathlu datblygiadau yn eu hawliau ledled y byd. Mae hefyd yn gyfle i godi ymwybyddiaeth o'r materion cyfredol sy'n wynebu'r gymuned. Mae digwyddiad 2019 yn arbennig o bwysig, gan fod yr un mis yn nodi hanner canmlwyddiant terfysgoedd Stonewall.

Ceir arwyddocâd yn nes adref hefyd i fis Pride eleni, wrth i Pride Cymru ddathlu eu hugeinfed pen blwydd. Cynhaliwyd y digwyddiad cyntaf o'r fath, Mardi Gras Caerdydd fel y'i gelwid ar y pryd, ym mis Medi 1999 a denodd 5,000 o bobl i Gae Cooper yng nghanol y ddinas. Yn y cyfnod ers hynny, cafwyd llawer tro ar fyd. Ond diolch i ddyfalbarhad gwirfoddolwyr, mae Pride Cymru, fel y'i hailenwyd yn symbol cryf o'i bwysigrwydd cenedlaethol, wedi cryfhau fwyfwy. Mae bellach yn croesawu 50,000 o gyfranogwyr dros dridiau, gan ddenu ymwelwyr o bob cwr o Gymru, y DU, a'r byd yn wir, i'r ddinas, gan gynhyrchu dros £2.5 miliwn i'r economi leol, a bydd 16,000 o bobl yn gorymdeithio drwy Gaerdydd yn enw cydraddoldeb—gyda'r orymdaith ei hun yn ychwanegiad poblogaidd ers 2012.

Yn 2019, bydd Pride Cymru yn ennill ei le fel y pumed digwyddiad Pride mwyaf yn y DU. Bydd hefyd yn edrych ymlaen at EuroPride 2025, a fydd yn cael ei gynnal yng Nghaerdydd, ac sydd newydd ddenu 0.5 miliwn o bobl i Fienna, lleoliad y digwyddiad eleni. Ond gan fod Pride Caerdydd a Chynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ill dau'n dathlu eu hugeinfed pen-blwydd, ceir cyfle i ni fyfyrio ar y cysylltiad rhwng datganoli a chydraddoldeb.

15:35
5. Cynnig i ddirymu Rheoliadau’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Y Gymraeg mewn Gwasanaethau Gofal Sylfaenol) (Diwygiadau Amrywiol) (Cymru) 2019
5. Motion to annul the National Health Service (Welsh Language in Primary Care Services) (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) Regulations 2019

I'm going to move on to item 5, a motion to annul the National Health Service (Welsh Language in Primary Care Services) (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) Regulations 2019. And I call on Dai Lloyd to move the motion.

Rwyf am symud ymlaen at eitem 5, cynnig i ddirymu Rheoliadau'r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Y Gymraeg mewn Gwasanaethau Gofal Sylfaenol) (Diwygiadau Amrywiol) (Cymru) 2019. A galwaf ar Dai Lloyd i gynnig y cynnig.

Cynnig NDM7057 Dai Lloyd

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 27.2:

Yn cytuno y dylai Rheoliadau’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Y Gymraeg mewn Gwasanaethau Gofal Sylfaenol) (Diwygiadau Amrywiol) (Cymru) 2019, a osodwyd gerbron y Cynulliad ar 9 Mai 2019, gael eu dirymu.

Motion NDM7057 Dai Lloyd

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales in accordance with Standing Order 27.2:

Agrees that The National Health Service (Welsh Language in Primary Care Services) (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) Regulations 2019, laid before the Assembly on 9 May 2019, be annulled.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. A dwi'n codi i symud y cynnig ar ddirymu'r rheoliadau gofal sylfaenol a'r Gymraeg. Mae'r sector gofal sylfaenol—deintyddion, optegwyr, fferyllwyr, a meddygon teulu—yn gyfrifol am hyd at 90 y cant o brofiadau cleifion yn y gwasanaeth iechyd, ac, yn wir, y man cychwyn i'r rhan fwyaf ar eu taith ar hyd y llwybr gofal. Dyma bobl ar eu mwyaf bregus, yn yr angen mwyaf, lle mae derbyn triniaeth yn y Gymraeg yn gallu bod yn hanfodol, megis yn achos pobl sydd efo dementia, neu blant ifanc nad ydyn nhw'n medru unrhyw iaith heblaw'r Gymraeg.

Addawodd y Llywodraeth yn y gwanwyn y llynedd, wrth eithrio darparwyr gofal sylfaenol o'r safonau ar gyfer gweddill y gwasanaeth iechyd, y byddai rheoliadau penodol er mwyn sicrhau hawliau i'r Gymraeg ym maes gofal sylfaenol drwy'r contractau gwasanaeth. Ond, rydym ni yma heddiw yn edrych ar reoliadau nad ydyn nhw'n rhoi dim un hawl statudol, na hyd yn oed hanner disgwyliad statudol, o dderbyn gwasanaethau wyneb yn wyneb yn y Gymraeg i gleifion. Ar y gorau, fe gawn ni, dros amser, ambell i arwydd Cymraeg newydd o ganlyniad i'r rheoliadau hyn. Does dim byd yma: dim hawliau, dim disgwyliad, dim newid.

Chwarter canrif ers pasio Deddf Iaith 1993, wyth mlynedd ers pasio Mesur y Gymraeg (Cymru) 2011, a sefydlodd statws swyddogol i'r iaith, a saith mlynedd ers i'r Llywodraeth fabwysiadu 'Mwy na Geiriau', a oedd yn ei hymrwymo i gynnig gwasanaethau iechyd Cymraeg yn rhagweithiol, dyw'r rheoliadau pitw yma ddim hyd yn oed yn sicrhau'r pethau mwyaf sylfaenol â chofnodi angen iaith y claf—rhywbeth sy'n hanfodol er mwyn cynllunio gwasanaeth yn Gymraeg. Beth yw diben anogaeth? Hyd yn oed pe bai'r ewyllys, yr amser a'r adnoddau gan fyrddau iechyd i sicrhau bod anogaeth, dyw'r rheoliadau hyn ddim yn sicrhau bod cofnod. Dydy'r rheoliadau ddim yn sicrhau yr un hawl cyfreithadwy o werth. Ac nid ydyn nhw chwaith yn rhoi sicrwydd i wasanaeth Cymraeg, hyd yn oed pan fo hynny'n fater o angen clinigol. Mae hynny ynddo'i hun yn dangos pa mor ddiffygiol ydy'r rheoliadau yma, a pham bod angen eu dirymu a'u hail-lunio.

Ond ar ben hynny, mae'r Gweinidog wedi dangos yr un difaterwch at y Senedd hon, ac at ddemocratiaeth, wrth gyflwyno'r rheoliadau yma, ag y mae o yn ei ddangos at anghenion ieithyddol pobl mwyaf bregus cymdeithas o ran cynnwys y rheoliadau. Ni ddaeth i'r pwyllgor i ateb cwestiynau. Mae hyd yn oed wedi gwrthod cais fy nghyd-weithiwr Delyth Jewell, sy'n aelod o'r pwyllgor, i drafod y ffordd ymlaen cyn y ddadl heddiw. Cymaint yw ei ddifaterwch am y Gymraeg, doedd ei adran ddim hyd yn oed wedi trafferthu cyfieithu memorandwm esboniadol y rheoliadau hyn i'r Gymraeg adeg cyflwyno'r rheoliadau, er bod dim ond pump tudalen i gyd. Felly, wrth gyflwyno'r dyletswyddau iaith, mae'r adran wedi torri ei dyletswyddau iaith ei hun. Allech chi ddim gwneud y peth i fyny.

Ond beth sydd yn glir yw bod y Llywodraeth yn poeni am farn y proffesiwn. Yn wir, yr unig gyrff sy'n cael eu rhestru yn y memorandwm esboniadol fel cyrff a gafodd wrandawiad y Llywodraeth yw'r pump corff proffesiynol. Mae'n glir bod eu barn nhw yn bwysicach na chynrychiolwyr etholedig y lle hwn. Fe gawson nhw lawer iawn mwy na 21 diwrnod i ddweud eu dweud; yn wir, fe gawson nhw dros flwyddyn. Roedd yn rhaid i'r Pwyllgor Diwylliant, y Gymraeg a Chyfathrebu fynnu cynnal ymchwiliad byr iawn o fewn y 21 diwrnod a oedd gyda nhw, a saith o'r dyddiau hynny yn y toriad. Os nad yw Cadeirydd pwyllgor yn haeddu parch y Llywodraeth hon, pwy sydd? I bwy maen nhw'n atebol? Dyw hi ddim y ffordd i drin ein Senedd genedlaethol.

Yn lle trafodaeth agored, dryloyw, ar y materion hyn, er mwyn sicrhau'r gorau i gleifion a defnyddwyr y Gymraeg, mae gennym ni Lywodraeth sydd wedi gwneud popeth i osgoi atebolrwydd y Senedd hon am gynnwys y rheoliadau yma. Rydw i fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon, Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Diwylliant, y Gymraeg a Chyfathrebu, a Chadeirydd y Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol wedi cwyno, ond dydych chi ddim yn gwrando. Mae'n ddamniol. Mae'r strategaethau, mae'r geiriau cynnes, wedi methu. Nid nawr yw'r amser am y camau cyntaf ac anogaeth; mae'n bryd am reoliadau llawer cadarnach i warchod ac ehangu hawliau i'r Gymraeg. Mae gan Aelodau'r Cynulliad gyfle i sicrhau hynny'r prynhawn yma drwy bleidleisio i ddirymu'r rheoliadau yma.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. And I move the motion on the annulment of the regulations on primary care and the Welsh language. The primary care sector—dentists, opticians, pharmacists, and GPs—are responsible for 90 per cent of patient experiences in the health service, and, indeed, it’s the starting point for most on their journey on the care pathway. These are the most vulnerable people, with the greatest need, where receiving treatment through the medium of Welsh can be crucial, such as in the case of those with dementia, or young children who speak no other language other than the Welsh language.

The Government pledged in the spring of last year, in exempting primary care providers from the standards for the rest of the health service, that specific regulations would be introduced in order to secure rights for the Welsh language in primary care through the service contracts. But, we are here today looking at regulations that don't provide any statutory rights, or even half a statutory expectation, of receiving face-to-face services through the medium of Welsh for patients. At best, over time, we will see a few new Welsh signs as a result of these new regulations. There is nothing here: no rights, no expectations, and no change.

A quarter of a century since the passing of the Welsh Language Act 1993, and eight years since the passing of the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011 that established official status for the language, and seven years since the Government adopted 'More than Just Words', which committed them to providing health services through the medium of Welsh proactively, these limp regulations don't even provide the most basic things such as noting the language of choice of the patient—something that is crucial to plan Welsh language services. What’s the purpose of encouragement? Even if the will, the time and the resources were available to the health boards to ensure that encouragement was there, these regulations don't even require a record. They don't ensure any actionable legal right of any value. And neither do they provide assurances of having a Welsh language service, even when that is a matter of clinical need. That, in and of itself, just shows how deficient these regulations are, and why they need to be annulled and redrafted.

But on top of that, the Minister has shown the same disregard for this Senedd, and democracy, in introducing these regulations, as he shows to the linguistic needs of the most vulnerable people in our society in terms of the content of the regulations. He didn't attend committee to respond to questions. He’s even refused the request of my colleague Delyth Jewell, who is a member of the committee, to discuss the way forward before today's debate. Such is his disregard for the Welsh language, he hadn't even bothered to translate the explanatory memorandum for these regulations into Welsh at the time of their introduction, although it was only five pages long. So, in introducing language duties, the department has gone against its own language responsibilities. You couldn't make it up.

But what is clear is that the Government is concerned about the views of the profession. Indeed, the only bodies listed in the explanatory memorandum as bodies that were consulted by Government are the five professional bodies. It’s clear that their views are more important than those of the elected representatives of this place. They had far longer than 21 days to have their say; indeed, they had over a year. The Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee had to insist on holding a very brief inquiry within the 21 days they had, and seven of those days were during recess. If a committee Chair doesn't deserve the respect of this Government, then who does? To whom are they accountable? This is no way to treat our national Parliament.

So, rather than having an open, transparent debate on these issues, in order to ensure the best for our patients and users of the Welsh language, we have a Government that has done everything within its power to avoid accountability to this Senedd on the content of these regulations. I, as Chair of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, the Chair of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee, and the Chair of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee have complained, but you haven't listened. It is damning. The strategies and the warm words have failed. Now is not the time for first steps and encouragement; it is time to have far firmer regulations in order to safeguard and expand the rights of Welsh speakers. Members of the Assembly have the opportunity to ensure that today by supporting the annulment of these regulations.

15:40

Byddwn yn cefnogi'r cynnig hwn i ddirymu'r rheoliadau hyn, nid ar sail eu cynnwys, ond oherwydd eu bod yn anwybyddu rôl graffu'r Senedd hon. Yn bersonol, rwy'n credu ei bod yn hawdd i ymarferwyr fodloni gofynion y rheoliadau—mae rhywun arall yn talu amdanyn nhw a dydyn nhw ddim yn heriol. Dwi ddim am osod safonau ar fusnesau bach, hyd yn oed yn uniongyrchol, ond camau syml yw'r rhain sy'n costio bron dim byd, a, mewn ffordd, mae'n destun embaras bod angen deddfwriaeth o gwbl ar gyfer y camau yma. Ond fe fydd pobl eraill sy'n meddwl y dylen nhw fod yn fwy heriol neu'n llai heriol neu'n wahanol yn gyfan gwbl. Dŷn ni ddim yn gwybod gan nad oes digon o amser wedi bod i graffu ar y rheoliadau hyn. Os yw Cadeiryddion dau bwyllgor yn dweud wrth Lywodraeth Cymru fod angen mwy o amser ar y Cynulliad hwn, wel, fe ddylem ni gael mwy o amser. Ni sydd yn deddfu; ni sydd yn penderfynu ar y ddeddfwriaeth.

A hefyd, rydym eisoes wedi bod yn dal ein trwynau yn derbyn sicrwydd gan y Llywodraeth ynghylch derbynioldeb peth is-ddeddfwriaeth gan y Deyrnas Unedig, mewn meysydd sydd wedi'u datganoli'n barod, heb edrych arnyn nhw ein hunain, mewn gwirionedd. Ni ddylem ni orfod gwneud hyn gydag is-ddeddfwriaeth a gyflwynir gan ein Llywodraeth ein hunain. Rydym wedi gwrthwynebu dro ar ôl tro ymdrechion gan Lywodraeth Cymru i gyfiawnhau defnyddio'r weithdrefn negyddol ar gyfer is-ddeddfwriaeth ar sail nad oes gan y Senedd hon ddigon o amser i graffu neu oherwydd mai dim ond rhai technegol y byddai unrhyw newidiadau, ac rydym wedi cael digon o hynny. Mae'r modd y cyflwynwyd y rheoliadau hyn yn profi ein pwynt. A wnewch chi barchu'r Senedd hon a chefnogi'r cynnig heddiw? Diolch.

We will be supporting this motion to annul these regulations, not on the basis of their content, but because of the fact that the scrutiny role of the Assembly has been ignored. Personally, I feel that it’s easy for practitioners to adhere to the regulations—someone else is paying for them and they're not challenging. I don't want to impose standards on small businesses, even directly, but these are simple steps to take, which cost next to nothing, and it’s embarrassing, in a way, that we need legislation at all for these steps. But, other people may think that they should be more challenging or less challenging or completely different. We don't know, because there has been insufficient time to scrutinise these regulations. If the Chairs of two committees say to the Welsh Government that they need more time, well, we should have more time for scrutiny. We're the ones who are legislating; we're the ones who decide on the legislation.

And also, we've already been holding our noses from having received assurances from the Government about the acceptability of some secondary legislation from the United Kingdom in devolved areas, without looking at them ourselves. We shouldn't have to do that with secondary legislation put forward by our own Government. We've opposed time after time attempts by the Welsh Government to justify the use of the negative procedure for secondary legislation on the basis that this Senedd doesn't have the time to scrutinise or because any changes are technical in nature, and we've had enough of that. The way that these regulations were put forward proves our point. Will you respect the Senedd and support today’s motion? Thank you.

I call on Bethan Sayed, Chair of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee.

Galwaf ar Bethan Sayed, Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Diwylliant, y Gymraeg a Chyfathrebu.

Diolch i Dai Lloyd am gyflwyno'r cynnig hwn. Rwyf am ddechrau drwy bwysleisio pwysigrwydd y rheoliadau hyn. Maent i fod i fynd â ni’n agosach at ddarparu gwasanaethau gofal iechyd sylfaenol yn y Gymraeg—rhywbeth y gwnaeth pawb a ddaeth i siarad â’r pwyllgor ei gydnabod fel rhywbeth sy’n angenrheidiol i rai pobl, ac nid dim ond dewis a ffafrir. Gall fod yn hanfodol i gleifion sy’n agored i niwed siarad â’u meddyg yn eu hiaith gyntaf. Er fy mod yn credu’n bersonol y dylai’r rheoliadau cael eu dirymu, mae aelodau’r pwyllgor mewn dau feddwl ar y mater hwn a dylwn ei gwneud yn glir fy mod yn siarad ar ran y pwyllgor.

Cyn siarad am gynnwys y rheoliadau, hoffwn drafod y ffordd y cawsant eu gosod gerbron y Cynulliad. Ym mis Mawrth y llynedd, craffodd y pwyllgor ar reoliadau’r safonau yn ymwneud â’r Gymraeg a’r sector iechyd, a dywedodd Gweinidog y Gymraeg ar y pryd wrthym y byddem yn cael mwy na’r isafswm o 21 diwrnod i drafod y rheoliadau hyn.

Ysgrifennodd clerc y pwyllgor at Lywodraeth Cymru dair gwaith i ofyn am amserlen y rheoliadau a chadarnhau y byddai gennym fwy na 21 diwrnod i graffu arnynt. Ar ôl dim ateb, dywedwyd wrth glerc y pwyllgor dros y ffôn y byddent yn dod 'cyn y Pasg' ac wedyn 'cyn diwedd Mai'. Heb unrhyw rybudd ymlaen llaw, fe’u gosodwyd ar 9 Mai a daethant i rym ar 30 Mai.

Mae’r Llywodraeth wedi methu’n llwyr yn ei thriniaeth o’r rheoliadau hyn. Pan ysgrifennais at y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i nodi bod yr amserlen yn golygu mai dim ond 10 diwrnod gwaith oedd gan y pwyllgor i ymgynghori â rhanddeiliaid, i drafod y rheoliadau ac i adrodd yn ôl arnynt cyn iddynt ddod i rym, cefais ateb anfoddhaol iawn. Atebodd y Gweinidog: 

'dan Reolau Sefydlog 21 a 27, does dim darpariaeth i Bwyllgor ac eithrio Pwyllgor cyfrifol...roi gwybod am offeryn sy’n ddarostyngedig i’r weithdrefn negyddol.'

Mae hyn yn anwybyddu’r ffaith ein bod ni, fel pwyllgor, wedi bod yn nodi ein bwriad i graffu ar y rheoliadau hyn ers dros 12 mis.

Rhoddodd y Gweinidog iechyd ymateb mwy graslon i Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol ar yr un mater.  Dywedodd wrth Mick Antoniw:

'Ni chafwyd yr un math o ddiddordeb yn y diwygiadau blaenorol i’r Rheoliadau hyn, ac rwyf wedi gofyn i fy swyddogion sicrhau yn y dyfodol, os byddant yn ymwneud â’r Gymraeg, ein bod yn rhybuddio’r Pwyllgor Diwylliant ac yn ymgysylltu â hwy yn gynharach yn y broses.'

Mae Dai Lloyd eisoes wedi trafod y ffaith bod y memorandwm esboniadol i reoliadau ar ddarparu gwasanaethau drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg wedi’i gyflwyno yn Saesneg yn unig. Byddai hynny’n ddoniol pe na bai mor amharchus. Nodaf fod y Gweinidog iechyd hefyd yn nodi bod ei swyddogion wedi, a dwi'n dyfynnu,

‘cytuno mewn egwyddor y byddwn yn cynyddu yn raddol nifer y memoranda esboniadol ar gyfer offerynnau statudol sy’n cael eu gosod gerbron y Cynulliad yn Gymraeg.’

Ai ymrwymiad mor wan â hyn yw’r gorau y gallwn ei ddisgwyl gan Lywodraeth sydd ag uchelgais i gyrraedd miliwn o siaradwyr erbyn 2050?

Fel pwyllgor, rydym am i Lywodraeth Cymru ymrwymo i roi’r cyfle inni graffu ar yr holl ddeddfwriaeth sy’n gysylltiedig â dyletswyddau’r Gymraeg ar ddarparwyr gofal sylfaenol cyn iddi gael ei gwneud neu ei gosod yn y Cynulliad. Ni ddylai fod angen dweud y dylid cyflwyno’r holl ddogfennau ategol yn ddwyieithog, ond yn yr achos hwn byddaf yn dweud hynny er mwyn iddo fod ar gofnod.

O ran ymgynghoriad, cyn symud ymlaen at gynnwys y rheoliadau, rwyf am nodi ein pryderon am y broses ymgynghori. Ymgynghorodd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ffurfiol â chyrff cynrychioliadol meddygon, deintyddion, optegwyr ac yn y blaen. Ond wedyn, gwnaethon nhw ddweud wrthym ni eu bod nhw wedi cael trafodaethau gyda'r comisiynydd, ond nid oes unrhyw beth o'r cofnod hynny yn gyhoeddus. Rwy’n synnu bod y Llywodraeth wedi methu ag ymgynghori â’r grŵp pwysicaf, sef y cleifion. Mae’r ffaith na ofynnwyd i gleifion am wasanaethau drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn adrodd cyfrolau am ba randdeiliaid y mae Llywodraeth yn eu blaenoriaethu. Mae’r pwyllgor yn galw am i’r rheoliadau gael eu diwygio yn dilyn ymgynghoriad pellach a fydd yn cynnwys grwpiau cleifion a Chomisiynydd y Gymraeg.

O ran y gofynion, hoffwn siarad am ba ddyletswyddau fydd yn cael eu gosod ar ddarparwyr gofal sylfaenol a barn y darparwyr hynny ar y dyletswyddau perthnasol. Nid yw’r rheoliadau ond yn mynd mor bell â mynnu bod darparwyr yn trefnu bod ffurflenni ar gael yn Gymraeg a bod arwyddion newydd ar gael yn Gymraeg, a’u bod yn annog siaradwyr Cymraeg a dysgwyr i wisgo bathodyn, yn annog staff i fynd ar gyrsiau hyfforddiant a chodi ymwybyddiaeth ac yn nodi dewis iaith claf.

Yn ein hadroddiad blaenorol, gwnaethom ysgrifennu am ein pryderon nad oes hawl o hyd i dderbyn gwasanaethau wyneb yn wyneb yn Gymraeg, ac y dylai’r hawl i dderbyn gwasanaethau yn newis iaith yr unigolyn fod yn egwyddor sefydlog yn y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Rwy’n dal i gredu hyn, ac rwy’n falch o ddweud bod aelodau’r pwyllgor wedi cytuno y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru weithio tuag at ddatblygu’r capasiti hwn. 

Mae gen i lot fawr i'w ychwanegu, ond dwi'n ymwybodol o amser. Rydyn ni yn siomedig â gwendidau'r rheoliadau hyn, a’r diffyg goruchwyliaeth, y pryderon a fynegwyd gan y cyrff proffesiynol, a’r diffyg ymgynghori â chleifion a’r comisiynydd. Mae’r holl elfennau hyn yn arwain at reoliadau sy’n llwyddo i fod yn hwyr ac wedi’u rhuthro.

Disgrifiwyd hyn fel 'cam cyntaf’ ar daith tuag at ddarparu mwy o wasanaethau gofal sylfaenol drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, ond mae hyn yn peri pryder. Os na chytunir ar gyfeiriad y daith, os nad yw’r costau’n dryloyw ac os nad yw’r darparwyr yn rhan o’r broses, yna ni all y daith hyd yn oed gychwyn. Dwi'n annog Llywodraeth Cymru i ymgynghori eto ac i ddiwygio’r rheoliadau yma.

I thank Dai Lloyd for tabling this motion. I want to start by emphasising the importance of these regulations. They are supposed to take us closer to delivering primary healthcare services in Welsh—something that was acknowledged by everyone who came and spoke to the committee as a necessity, not merely a preference, for some people. For vulnerable patients, it can be vital to talk to their doctor in their first language. Although I personally believe that the regulations should be annulled, committee members were divided on this, and I should make it clear that I am speaking on behalf of the committee.

But before talking about the content of the regulations, I want to discuss the way in which they were laid before the Assembly. In March of last year, the committee scrutinised the standards regulations relating to the Welsh language and the health sector, and was told by the Minister for the Welsh language at the time that we would be given more than the minimum 21 days to consider these regulations.

The committee clerk wrote to the Welsh Government three times to ask about the timing of the regulations and to confirm that we would have more than 21 days to scrutinise them. After having no reply, the committee clerk was told on the phone that they would be coming forward 'before Easter' and then 'before the end of May'. Without any prior warning, they were then laid on 9 May and came into force on 30 May.

The Government has failed badly in its handling of these regulations. When I wrote to the Minister for Health and Social Services to point out that the timing meant that the committee had only 10 working days to consult stakeholders, to discuss and report on the regulations before they came into force, I received a most unsatisfactory reply. The Minister replied that 

'under Standing Orders 21 and 27, there is no provision for a Committee other than the responsible Committee...to report on an instrument subject to the negative procedure.'

This completely disregards the fact that we, as a committee, have been signalling our intention to scrutinise these regulations for over 12 months.

The health Minister gave a more gracious response to the Chair of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee on the same issue.  Mick Antoniw was told:

‘Previous amendments to these Regulations have not gathered the same level of interest and I have asked my officials to ensure in future, if they involve the Welsh language, we alert and engage with CWLC earlier in the process.’

Dai Lloyd has already raised the issue of an explanatory memorandum to regulations on Welsh language service provision being laid in English only. It would be amusing if it was not so disrespectful. I note that the health Minister also writes that his officials have, and I quote,

'reached agreement in principle that we will progressively increase the number of explanatory memoranda for statutory instruments that are laid in Welsh before the Assembly.'

Is such a weak commitment the most we can expect from a Government with ambitions to reach a million Welsh speakers by 2050?

As a committee we want the Welsh Government to commit to giving us the opportunity to scrutinise all legislation relating to Welsh language duties on primary care providers before it is made or laid in the Assembly. I would assume it goes without saying that all supporting documents should be presented bilingually, but in this case I’ll say it for the record.

With regard to consultation, before moving onto the content of the regulations, I want to record our concerns about the consultation process. The Welsh Government formally consulted the representative bodies of doctors, dentists, opticians and pharmacists, and so on. We were told that discussions were held with the Welsh Language Commissioner, none of which are in the public domain. I'm shocked that the Government has failed to consult the most important group, namely the patients. The fact that patients were not consulted about services in Welsh speaks volumes about which stakeholders the Government value. The committee calls for the regulations to be amended following further consultation that must include patient bodies and the Welsh Language Commissioner.

In terms of the requirements, I'd like to talk about what duties will be imposed on primary care providers and the opinions of those providers on the relevant duties. The regulations only go so far as ensuring that providers make forms available in Welsh and that new signs are available through the medium of Welsh, and that they encourage Welsh speakers and learners to wear a badge, encourage staff to attend awareness training courses and record the language preference of a patient.

In our previous report, we wrote of our concerns that there is still no right to receive face-to-face services in Welsh, and that the right to receive a service in the language of the individual’s choice should be an established principle in the public sector in Wales. I still feel this way, and I'm pleased to say that the committee members agreed that the Welsh Government should work towards developing this capacity. 

I have a great deal of things to add, but I'm aware that time is against me. We are disappointed at the weakness of these regulations, and the lack of oversight, the concerns raised by the professional bodies, and the lack of consultation with patients and the commissioner. All these elements add up to regulations that manage to be both late and rushed.

This has been described as a ‘first step’ on a journey towards greater provision of primary care services in Welsh, but this is worrying. If the direction of travel is not agreed, if the costs are not transparent and if the providers are not on board, then the journey can’t even begin. I urge the Welsh Government to consult again and to revise these regulations.

15:45

I call on Mick Antoniw, Chair of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee. 

Galwaf ar Mick Antoniw, Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol.

Thank you. We considered these regulations at our meeting on 20 May 2019 and we reported on both the technical and merits points to the Assembly. We welcome that the Welsh Government has accepted the technical reporting point relating to the drafting of the regulations, and that it proposes to rectify the issue by means of a correction slip.

With regard to the merits points, we noted that these regulations impose six contractual duties relating to the Welsh language on contractors who provide primary care services to the NHS. This  contrasted with the 121 Welsh language standards applicable to other health service providers. The Welsh Government’s response to our report stated that the duties imposed by these regulations are the first duties relating to the Welsh language to apply to independent primary care providers, and that they are distinct from the Welsh language standards applicable to local health boards and NHS trusts.

We further noted that the regulations into which these additional duties are inserted make it clear that they are part of the contractual duties of contractors from 30 May 2019. However, there is nothing in the explanatory memorandum or accompanying the explanatory memorandum to explain that the amendments apply to all contracts from that date and are not limited to new contracts entered into after that date. The Welsh Government responded to this point by saying it had consulted and corresponded with the applicable representative bodies of the independent primary care providers, and that it was satisfied that the relevant bodies are aware that the duties are not limited to new arrangements entered into after the date on which the regulations came into force. 

In addition to our usual report, we also wrote to the Minister to support the concerns raised by the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee, of which I am also a member. And I note that the Minister has said, in his reply to us last week, that he had asked his officials to ensure engagement with committees much earlier in the process for future regulations. And I take this opportunity to emphasise again, to all of Welsh Government, the importance of engaging with the relevant subject committees on significant regulations, particularly where a committee has sought that engagement.

And I have further points. I have great sympathy with the points that have been made by Dai Lloyd and to the procedural inadequacies that have occurred, particularly when it comes to the ability to properly scrutinise regulations that come before this Assembly. That is a fundamental part of the parliamentary process, and the concern that has been raised is one that I think was shared across the board, both in the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee and also on the Welsh language and culture committee on which I sit. There are those of us who I think fell short of supporting the idea of annulment, but primarily because of the damage that we felt it might do, or the implications of not proceeding with regulations that seek to advance the interest of the Welsh language. But that should not mean that there isn't a warning shot across the bows of Government, that if procedures are not properly followed, if there is not proper opportunity for scrutiny, then the issue of annulment is one that is taken seriously, I think, by our committee structure. And I think on future occasions it may be something that we consider. So, I would certainly seek an assurance from today that those lessons have been learnt, that that constitutional importance is recognised, and this is something that will not happen again during the course of parliamentary processes in this Assembly.

Diolch. Gwnaethom ystyried y rheoliadau hyn yn ein cyfarfod ar 20 Mai 2019 ac adroddasom ar y pwyntiau technegol a theilyngdod i'r Cynulliad. Rydym yn croesawu'r ffaith bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn y pwynt adrodd technegol sy'n ymwneud â drafftio'r rheoliadau, a'i bod yn cynnig unioni'r mater drwy slip cywiro.

O ran y pwyntiau teilyngdod, nodasom fod y rheoliadau hyn yn gosod chwe dyletswydd gytundebol sy'n ymwneud â'r Gymraeg ar gontractwyr sy'n darparu gwasanaethau gofal sylfaenol i'r GIG. Roedd hyn yn cyferbynnu â'r 121 o safonau iaith Gymraeg sy'n berthnasol i ddarparwyr gwasanaethau iechyd eraill. Roedd ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i'n hadroddiad yn nodi mai'r dyletswyddau a osodir gan y rheoliadau hyn yw'r dyletswyddau cyntaf sy'n ymwneud â'r Gymraeg i fod yn berthnasol i ddarparwyr gofal sylfaenol annibynnol, a'u bod yn wahanol i'r safonau iaith Gymraeg sy'n berthnasol i fyrddau iechyd lleol ac ymddiriedolaethau'r GIG.

Nodasom hefyd fod y rheoliadau y mewnosodir y dyletswyddau ychwanegol hyn ynddynt yn ei gwneud yn glir eu bod yn rhan o ddyletswyddau cytundebol contractwyr o 30 Mai 2019 ymlaen. Fodd bynnag, nid oes unrhyw beth yn y memorandwm esboniadol nac yn dod gyda'r memorandwm esboniadol i esbonio bod y gwelliannau'n berthnasol i bob contract o'r dyddiad hwnnw ymlaen ac nad ydynt wedi'u cyfyngu i gontractau newydd yr ymrwymwyd iddynt ar ôl y dyddiad hwnnw. Ymatebodd Llywodraeth Cymru i'r pwynt hwn drwy ddweud ei bod wedi ymgynghori a gohebu â chyrff cynrychiadol perthnasol y darparwyr gofal sylfaenol annibynnol, a'i bod yn fodlon fod y cyrff perthnasol yn ymwybodol nad yw'r dyletswyddau'n gyfyngedig i drefniadau newydd a wnaed ar ôl y dyddiad y daeth y rheoliadau i rym.  

Yn ogystal â'n hadroddiad arferol, ysgrifenasom at y Gweinidog hefyd i gefnogi'r pryderon a godwyd gan y Pwyllgor Diwylliant, y Gymraeg a Chyfathrebu, pwyllgor rwyf hefyd yn aelod ohono. A nodaf fod y Gweinidog wedi dweud, yn ei ymateb i ni yr wythnos diwethaf, ei fod wedi gofyn i'w swyddogion sicrhau eu bod yn ymgysylltu â phwyllgorau yn llawer cynharach yn y broses ar gyfer rheoliadau yn y dyfodol. A hoffwn fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn i bwysleisio unwaith eto, i bob rhan o Lywodraeth Cymru, pa mor bwysig yw ymgysylltu â'r pwyllgorau pwnc perthnasol ar reoliadau arwyddocaol, yn enwedig pan fo pwyllgor wedi gofyn am yr ymgysylltiad hwnnw.

Ac mae gennyf bwyntiau pellach. Rwy'n cydymdeimlo'n fawr â'r pwyntiau a wnaeth Dai Lloyd ac mewn perthynas â'r diffygion gweithdrefnol sydd wedi digwydd, yn enwedig o ran y gallu i graffu'n briodol ar reoliadau a gyflwynir gerbron y Cynulliad hwn. Mae honno'n rhan sylfaenol o'r broses seneddol, ac mae'r pryder a godwyd yn un a rennir gan bawb rwy'n credu, yn y Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol a hefyd yn y pwyllgor diwylliant a'r Gymraeg rwy'n aelod ohono. Rwy'n credu bod rhai ohonom wedi methu cefnogi'r syniad o ddirymu, yn bennaf oherwydd y difrod y teimlem y gallai ei wneud, neu oblygiadau peidio â bwrw ymlaen â rheoliadau sy'n ceisio hybu buddiannau'r Gymraeg. Ond ni ddylai hynny olygu nad oes rhybudd i bawb ohonom ar draws y Llywodraeth, os na ddilynir gweithdrefnau'n briodol, os nad oes cyfle priodol i graffu, credaf fod dirymu'n fater y mae ein strwythur pwyllgor yn rhoi sylw difrifol iddo. Ac rwy'n credu y gallai fod yn rhywbeth y byddwn yn ei ystyried yn y dyfodol. Felly, buaswn yn sicr yn ceisio sicrwydd heddiw fod y gwersi hynny wedi'u dysgu, fod y pwysigrwydd cyfansoddiadol hwnnw'n cael ei gydnabod, ac na fydd hyn yn digwydd eto yn ystod prosesau seneddol yn y Cynulliad hwn.

15:50

The provision of health services through the medium of Welsh is essential. For some patients it is not a matter of language choice—it is their only option. This is why my group and I support the intention behind these regulations. As the Welsh Language Commissioner rightly points out, these regulations are an important first step towards greater provision of health and social care services in Welsh.

It is important, however, that we get the right balance of meeting the needs of patients without reinforcing perceptions that in order to work in NHS Wales you have to speak fluent Welsh. This was one of the concerns raised by health professionals in the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee last week. And while I am of the opinion that these regulations do strike the right balance, I accept that it is not just me who needs to be convinced—it’s those working in primary care, those on the front line delivering services, who need to buy into the regulations.

It was therefore disappointing that the Welsh Government chose to use the negative procedure, and allow just the bare minimum of 21 days for scrutiny. This didn’t allow time to consult with patient groups, the professional bodies representing the health and care workforce or the service providers. And it is for this reason that my group will be abstaining on the motion to annul. I don’t think the Government should revoke these regulations, however, I would urge the Minister to work with providers to ensure that we have them on board.

If we are to improve Welsh language service provision, we must ensure that the regulations have support across the board, and I look forward to the Minister’s response. Diolch yn fawr.

Mae darparu gwasanaethau iechyd drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn hanfodol. I rai cleifion, nid mater o ddewis iaith ydyw—dyna eu hunig ddewis. Dyna pam fod fy ngrŵp a minnau'n cefnogi'r bwriad y tu ôl i'r rheoliadau hyn. Fel y mae Comisiynydd y Gymraeg yn ei ddweud yn gywir, mae'r rheoliadau hyn yn gam cyntaf pwysig tuag at ddarparu mwy o wasanaethau iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg.

Mae'n bwysig, fodd bynnag, ein bod yn sicrhau'r cydbwysedd cywir ar gyfer diwallu anghenion cleifion heb atgyfnerthu'r canfyddiadau bod yn rhaid i chi siarad Cymraeg yn rhugl er mwyn gweithio yn GIG Cymru. Dyma un o'r pryderon a fynegwyd gan weithwyr iechyd proffesiynol yng nghyfarfod y Pwyllgor Diwylliant, y Gymraeg a Chyfathrebu yr wythnos diwethaf. Ac er fy mod o'r farn fod y rheoliadau hyn yn sicrhau'r cydbwysedd cywir, rwy'n derbyn nad fi yw'r unig un sydd angen ei argyhoeddi—mae angen i'r rheini sy'n gweithio ym maes gofal sylfaenol, y rheini sydd ar y rheng flaen yn darparu gwasanaethau, gefnogi'r rheoliadau.

Roedd yn siomedig felly fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi dewis defnyddio'r weithdrefn negyddol, a chaniatáu'r lleiafswm o 21 diwrnod yn unig ar gyfer craffu. Nid oedd hyn yn caniatáu amser i ymgynghori â grwpiau cleifion, y cyrff proffesiynol sy'n cynrychioli'r gweithlu iechyd a gofal na'r darparwyr gwasanaethau. A dyna pam y bydd fy ngrŵp yn ymatal ar y cynnig i ddirymu. Nid wyf yn credu y dylai'r Llywodraeth ddiddymu'r rheoliadau hyn, ond buaswn yn annog y Gweinidog i weithio gyda darparwyr i sicrhau eu bod yn gefnogol.

Os ydym am wella'r ddarpariaeth o wasanaethau Cymraeg, mae'n rhaid i ni sicrhau bod cefnogaeth gyffredinol i'r rheoliadau, ac edrychaf ymlaen at ymateb y Gweinidog. Diolch yn fawr.

I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services to speak—Vaughan Gething.

Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i siarad—Vaughan Gething.

Thank you, chair. I'd like to start by thanking Dai Lloyd, the Chair of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, for tabling this motion and providing the opportunity to set out the rationale and importance of putting in place these Welsh language duties for independent primary care contractors as well as, of course, for those primary care services provided directly by the health service.

There's been a high-level of interest by Assembly Members in this piece of legislation, as we've heard this afternoon. Having recognised the specific interest of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee, I did offer the committee a technical briefing, with my officials, which took place on 6 June. I welcome the report that I have now received from the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee, from the meeting on 6 June, into the regulations, and I will of course consider fully and respond to their report from the meeting.

Diolch, Gadeirydd. Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddiolch i Dai Lloyd, Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon, am gyflwyno'r cynnig hwn a rhoi'r cyfle i nodi'r rhesymeg a phwysigrwydd sefydlu'r dyletswyddau iaith Gymraeg hyn ar gyfer contractwyr gofal sylfaenol annibynnol yn ogystal â'r gwasanaethau gofal sylfaenol hynny a ddarperir yn uniongyrchol gan y gwasanaeth iechyd, wrth gwrs.

Mae Aelodau'r Cynulliad wedi dangos llawer o ddiddordeb yn ddeddfwriaeth hon, fel rydym wedi'i glywed y prynhawn yma. Ar ôl cydnabod diddordeb penodol y Pwyllgor Diwylliant, y Gymraeg a Chyfathrebu, cynigiais gyfarfod briffio technegol i'r pwyllgor, gyda fy swyddogion, a chynhaliwyd hwnnw ar 6 Mehefin. Rwy'n croesawu'r adroddiad rwyf bellach wedi'i gael gan y Pwyllgor Diwylliant, y Gymraeg a Chyfathrebu, o'r cyfarfod ar 6 Mehefin, ar y rheoliadau, ac wrth gwrs, byddaf yn ystyried yr adroddiad o'r cyfarfod yn llawn ac yn ymateb iddo.

Daeth y Llywydd i’r Gadair.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

15:55

I recognise the comments made today. I have asked by officials to ensure that, in future, when we make regulations about the use of the Welsh language through health and social care, we alert and engage with the specific subject committee but also with the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee earlier in the process. I do recognise the points that have been made, not just about health and social care policy and further policy and regulations, but the comments made about the broader Government approach, because I actually welcome scrutiny from Members in this Chamber. I still remember myself being a backbencher and wanting to take a proper role in the scrutiny process, to challenge and also to improve legislation too. 

But I do wish to place on record my genuine and sincere regret that the Welsh language version of the explanatory memorandum was not laid at the same time as the English version, as it should have been. But I would not want that genuine oversight—and I recognise that I'm not trying to soft-soap or say it didn't happen—I wouldn't want that to detract from the benefits that I believe these duties will have to patients to take part in healthcare in a primary care setting. And here, I think, there is a departure from the argument made by Dai Lloyd in moving the motion.

On a general point, though, regarding the translation of the explanatory memorandum, officials are discussing this with the Assembly Commission officials and reached an agreement in principle that we will progressively increase the number of explanatory memoranda for statutory instruments that are laid in Welsh before the Assembly. Further work is under way to look at the significance of that in terms of the time required in the delivery of legislation and supporting documents to be laid before the Assembly in both official languages.

As has been noted, the duties actually came into force on 30 May, so with the regulations having already been made, passing the motion would mean revoking and having to remake the regulations, which would delay the introduction of the duties. Some Members may not support the scheme or the regulations, but we have worked with not just providers, not just stakeholders in delivering services, including their representative bodies, but the scheme that we have has the support of the previous Welsh Language Commissioner and the current one. 

So, moving on to the duties themselves, the approach to Welsh language duties in the contracts, in terms of service for independent contractors, results from consideration and consultation on the draft Welsh language standards regulations for the health sector in 2016. The consultation responses reported that there was a widespread belief that it was not reasonable to place standards on local health boards that would make them responsible for any failure to comply by one of the independent primary care contractors. That is of course due to how services are delivered under nationally agreed contracts and terms of services. But primary care services delivered directly by local health boards will be subject to the Welsh language standards set out in the compliance notices for individual health boards.

There are practical reasons that need to be explored further—[Interruption.] Yes.

Rwy'n cydnabod y sylwadau a wnaed heddiw. Rwyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion sicrhau, yn y dyfodol, pan fyddwn yn gwneud rheoliadau ynglŷn â'r defnydd o'r Gymraeg drwy iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, ein bod yn rhybuddio ac yn ymgysylltu â'r pwyllgor pwnc penodol ond hefyd â'r Pwyllgor Diwylliant, y Gymraeg a Chyfathrebu yn gynharach yn y broses. Rwy'n cydnabod y pwyntiau a wnaed, nid yn unig am bolisi iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol a pholisïau a rheoliadau pellach, ond am y sylwadau a wnaed am ddull ehangach y Llywodraeth, oherwydd rwy'n croesawu craffu gan Aelodau yn y Siambr hon. Rwy'n dal i gofio bod yn aelod o'r meinciau cefn a fy awydd i gymryd rhan briodol yn y broses graffu, i herio a hefyd i wella deddfwriaeth hefyd.  

Ond hoffwn gofnodi fy siom wirioneddol a diffuant na chafodd y fersiwn Gymraeg o'r memorandwm esboniadol ei chyflwyno ar yr un pryd â'r fersiwn Saesneg, fel y dylai. Ond ni fuaswn eisiau i'r amryfusedd diffuant hwnnw—ac rwy'n cydnabod nad wyf yn ceisio gwenieithio na cheisio dweud na ddigwyddodd hynny—ni fuaswn eisiau i hynny dynnu oddi ar y manteision y bydd y dyletswyddau hyn, yn fy marn i, yn eu sicrhau i gleifion er mwyn iddynt allu cael gofal iechyd mewn lleoliad gofal sylfaenol. Ac yma, rwy'n credu, mae yna wyro oddi wrth y ddadl a wnaeth Dai Lloyd wrth wneud y cynnig.

Ar bwynt cyffredinol, fodd bynnag, o ran cyfieithu'r memorandwm esboniadol, mae swyddogion yn trafod hyn gyda swyddogion Comisiwn y Cynulliad ac maent wedi dod i gytundeb mewn egwyddor y byddwn yn cynyddu nifer y memoranda esboniadol yn raddol ar gyfer offerynnau statudol sy'n cael eu gosod yn Gymraeg gerbron y Cynulliad. Mae gwaith pellach ar y gweill i edrych ar arwyddocâd hynny o ran yr amser sydd ei angen i gyflwyno deddfwriaeth a dogfennau ategol gerbron y Cynulliad yn y ddwy iaith swyddogol.

Fel y nodwyd, daeth y dyletswyddau i rym ar 30 Mai mewn gwirionedd, felly gan fod y rheoliadau eisoes wedi'u gwneud, byddai derbyn y cynnig yn golygu dirymu'r rheoliadau a'u hail-wneud, a byddai hynny'n gohirio'r broses o gyflwyno'r dyletswyddau. Efallai na fydd rhai Aelodau yn cefnogi'r cynllun neu'r rheoliadau, ond rydym wedi gweithio, nid yn unig gyda darparwyr, nid yn unig gyda rhanddeiliaid i ddarparu gwasanaethau, gan gynnwys y cyrff sy'n eu cynrychioli, ond mae Comisiynydd y Gymraeg, a'r Comisiynydd blaenorol, yn cefnogi'r cynllun sydd gennym.  

Felly, gan symud ymlaen at y dyletswyddau eu hunain, mae'r ymagwedd tuag at ddyletswyddau iaith Gymraeg yn y contractau, o ran gwasanaethau i gontractwyr annibynnol, yn deillio o ystyriaeth ac ymgynghoriad ar y rheoliadau drafft ar safonau'r Gymraeg ar gyfer y sector iechyd yn 2016. Roedd yr ymatebion i'r ymgynghoriad yn nodi bod yna gred gyffredinol nad oedd yn rhesymol gosod safonau ar fyrddau iechyd lleol a fyddai'n eu gwneud yn gyfrifol am unrhyw fethiant i gydymffurfio ar ran un o'r contractwyr gofal sylfaenol annibynnol. Mae hynny, wrth gwrs, yn deillio o'r ffordd y darperir gwasanaethau o dan delerau gwasanaethau a chontractau y cytunwyd arnynt yn genedlaethol. Ond bydd gwasanaethau gofal sylfaenol a ddarperir yn uniongyrchol gan fyrddau iechyd lleol yn ddarostyngedig i safonau'r Gymraeg a nodir yn yr hysbysiadau cydymffurfio ar gyfer byrddau iechyd unigol.

Ceir rhesymau ymarferol sydd angen eu hystyried ymhellach—[Torri ar draws.] Ie.

Strangely enough, this is the precise point I made to your officials. If we can set standards that are higher for those primary care services that we directly provide via the various local health boards, why shouldn't those higher standards have been comprehensively looked at in a full consultation with patients and groups like the Welsh Language Society, and before the relevant committee or committees—because, in this case, we're talking about Welsh language rights as well as effective healthcare provision? You ducked that. It's interesting that you're saying—and you're quite right, it was dilatory at the very least not to have published the explanatory memorandum in Welsh at the same time when you laid these regulations. But the real problem is that you're setting a level of standard without scrutiny here. We should have that full debate here. Primary healthcare services are the most direct ones that we receive, and where we would really want to see effective Welsh language rights being championed. 

Yn rhyfedd ddigon, dyma'r union bwynt a wneuthum i'ch swyddogion. Os gallwn osod safonau sy'n uwch ar gyfer y gwasanaethau gofal sylfaenol hynny a ddarparwn yn uniongyrchol drwy'r gwahanol fyrddau iechyd lleol, pam na edrychwyd ar y safonau uwch hynny'n fanwl mewn ymgynghoriad llawn â chleifion a grwpiau fel Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg, a gerbron y pwyllgor neu'r pwyllgorau perthnasol—oherwydd, yn yr achos hwn, rydym yn sôn am hawliau'r Gymraeg yn ogystal â darpariaeth gofal iechyd effeithiol? Rydych wedi osgoi hynny. Mae'n ddiddorol eich bod yn dweud—ac rydych yn llygad eich lle, ei bod yn hwyrfrydig iawn, a dweud y lleiaf, na chyhoeddwyd y memorandwm esboniadol yn Gymraeg ar yr un pryd ag y gosodwyd y rheoliadau hyn gennych. Ond y broblem go iawn yw eich bod yn gosod lefel o safon heb graffu yma. Dylem gael y ddadl lawn honno yma. Gwasanaethau gofal iechyd sylfaenol yw'r gwasanaethau mwyaf uniongyrchol a gawn, a byddem yn sicr eisiau gweld hawliau Cymraeg effeithiol yn cael eu hyrwyddo yn y gwasanaethau hyn.

There's an honest choice to be made about how to introduce these first-step duties, as they have been described. There were practical questions that needed to be explored further about how to set and regulate Welsh language obligations on the thousands of GPs, opticians, pharmacists and dentists who work and deliver care here in Wales—[Interruption.] I remember when the Member was in the Chair, he regularly spoke about noises off from the side and a sedentary position. 

Mae yna benderfyniad gonest i'w wneud ynglŷn â sut i gyflwyno'r dyletswyddau cam cyntaf hyn, fel y maent wedi cael eu disgrifio. Roedd yna gwestiynau ymarferol roedd angen eu harchwilio ymhellach ynglŷn â sut i osod a rheoleiddio rhwymedigaethau iaith Gymraeg ar gyfer miloedd o feddygon teulu, optegwyr, fferyllwyr a deintyddion sy'n gweithio ac yn darparu gofal yma yng Nghymru—[Torri ar draws.] Rwy'n cofio pan oedd yr Aelod yn y Gadair, roedd yn sôn yn rheolaidd am synau o'r cyrion ac Aelodau'n siarad o'u seddau.

16:00

Well, answer the central question. 

Wel, atebwch y cwestiwn canolog.

I'm trying to explain the approach that we've taken, and I am being genuine and honest in that. Members may not agree with the approach that we have taken, but this is the approach we've taken to introduce for the first time these duties across primary care. And there was consensus in the consultation that the most appropriate way of placing Welsh language duties on primary care providers was to agree these nationally and to include them in the contractual terms of service between contractors and health boards. And that approach used existing contract reporting systems that are familiar to the sector. It was noted that—[Interruption.] I can't; I'm over time already. 

It was noted that, unlike the majority of health sector bodies that are required to comply with the Welsh language standards, independent primary care providers have not previously been subject to Welsh language schemes. So, we've taken this into account with Welsh language skills capacity, capability, recruitment and retention issues in primary care. It's important to introduce the first-step duties in a way that is proportionate and with a supportive environment. The duties being placed on independent primary care providers, like standards for the healthcare sector, are a part of a jigsaw of interventions that support and build upon the firm foundations laid by 'More than just words'.

There was more that I wanted to say, but I recognise that we're now significantly over time, Llywydd. But I would say that I do believe that these duties are a significant step forward in promoting and supporting Welsh language awareness and services in primary care. And I am pleased that representative bodies of independent primary care providers, despite raising some challenges, have agreed on the approach that we're taking. I'd ask Members to vote against the motion today, and not set back the important practical progress that these regulations introduce.  

Rwy'n ceisio egluro'r dull rydym wedi'i fabwysiadu, ac rwy'n bod yn ddidwyll ac yn onest yn hynny o beth. Efallai na fydd yr Aelodau'n cytuno â'r dull a fabwysiadwyd gennym, ond dyma'r dull rydym wedi'i ddefnyddio i gyflwyno'r dyletswyddau hyn ar draws gofal sylfaenol am y tro cyntaf. Ac roedd consensws yn yr ymgynghoriad mai'r ffordd fwyaf priodol o osod dyletswyddau iaith Gymraeg ar ddarparwyr gofal sylfaenol oedd cytuno ar y rhain yn genedlaethol a'u cynnwys yn y telerau gwasanaeth cytundebol rhwng contractwyr a byrddau iechyd. A defnyddiodd y dull hwnnw systemau cofnodi contractau cyfredol sy'n gyfarwydd i'r sector. Nodwyd—[Torri ar draws.] Ni allaf; rwyf eisoes wedi cymryd gormod o amser.

Nodwyd, yn wahanol i'r mwyafrif o gyrff y sector iechyd sy'n gorfod cydymffurfio â safonau'r Gymraeg, nad yw darparwyr gofal sylfaenol annibynnol wedi bod yn ddarostyngedig i gynlluniau iaith Gymraeg o'r blaen. Felly, rydym wedi ystyried hyn ochr yn ochr â sgiliau yn y Gymraeg, gallu, materion recriwtio a chadw staff ym maes gofal sylfaenol. Mae'n bwysig cyflwyno'r dyletswyddau cam cyntaf mewn ffordd sy'n gymesur ac mewn amgylchedd cefnogol. Mae'r dyletswyddau sy'n cael eu gosod ar ddarparwyr gofal sylfaenol annibynnol, fel safonau ar gyfer y sector gofal iechyd, yn rhan o jig-so o ymyriadau sy'n cefnogi ac yn adeiladu ar y sylfeini cadarn a osodwyd yn 'Mwy na Geiriau...'.

Roeddwn am ddweud mwy, ond rwy'n gweld ein bod ymhell dros yr amser, Lywydd. Ond hoffwn ddweud fy mod yn credu bod y dyletswyddau hyn yn gam sylweddol ymlaen o ran hyrwyddo a chefnogi ymwybyddiaeth o'r Gymraeg a gwasanaethau ym maes gofal sylfaenol. Ac rwy'n falch fod cyrff cynrychioliadol darparwyr gofal sylfaenol annibynnol, er iddynt godi rhai heriau, wedi cytuno ar y dull gweithredu rydym wedi'i fabwysiadu. Gofynnaf i'r Aelodau bleidleisio yn erbyn y cynnig heddiw, a pheidio â dadwneud y cynnydd ymarferol pwysig y mae'r rheoliadau hyn yn ei gyflwyno.  

Dai Lloyd i ymateb i'r ddadl. 

Dai Lloyd to reply to the debate. 

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Does dim lot o amser. Gwnaf i ddiolch i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu: Suzy Davies, Bethan Sayed, Mick Antoniw, Caroline Jones, David Melding—roeddwn i'n hoffi hynna—ac, wrth gwrs, y Gweinidog, er doeddwn i ddim yn cytuno.

I gloi, roeddwn i'n mynd i ddefnyddio'r amser jest i esbonio yn ehangach pam mae hyn mor bwysig a pam mae'r rheoliadau mor annigonol. Achos mae yna fater ehangach yn fan hyn, a hynny ydy gwerth clinigol darparu gwasanaeth mewn mamiaith y claf—y bobl oedd yn absennol o'ch araith chi—sef gwella ansawdd y gofal; dyna ydy'r pwynt, ar ddiwedd y dydd. 

Mae'r dadansoddiad, mae'r diagnosis, dŷn ni'n ei wneud yn dod ar sail y hanes mae'r claf yn ei ddarparu i'r meddyg neu'r nyrs mewn 90 y cant o achosion. Felly, y pwynt allweddol yn fan hyn ydy: dŷn ni'n dod i'r ateb wrth wrando ar iaith y claf, ac mae hynny'n dibynnu ar ruglder—hynny yw, pa mor rhugl ydy'r person, fel rheol yn Saesneg, achos dyna ydy'r sefyllfa efo pobl Cymraeg iaith gyntaf. Mae pobl yn credu, 

Thank you, Llywydd. I don't have much time. I will thank everyone who has contributed: Suzy Davies, Bethan Sayed, Mick Antoniw, Caroline Jones, David Melding—I enjoyed that—and, of course, the Minister, although I didn't agree with him.

To conclude, I was going to use this time just to explain in broader terms why this is so important and why the regulations are so insufficient. There is a broader issue here, and that is the clinical value of providing a service in the patient's mother tongue—the people who were absent from your contribution—and that's improving the quality of care. That's the point here, at the end of the day.

The diagnosis that we come to comes on the basis of the history that the patient provides to the doctor or the nurse in 90 per cent of cases. So, the crucial point here is that we find solutions by listening to the words of the patient, and that depends on the fluency of that patient, usually in English, because that's the situation with first-language Welsh speakers. Everyone thinks,

'Oh, you can all speak English'. Yes, but not everyone is confident and fluent, and even confidently fluent, or even have a Melding-esque grasp of nuance and syntax in their second language. 

'O, rydych chi i gyd yn gallu siarad Saesneg'. Mae hynny'n wir, ond nid pawb sy'n hyderus ac yn rhugl, neu'n hyderus rugl hyd yn oed, ac nid pawb sy'n meddu ar ddealltwriaeth Felding-aidd o fanylder a chystrawen yn eu hail iaith.

Achos, yn enwedig efo plant, efo'r henoed, efo pobl â dementia a strôc—dŷn ni'n colli ein hail iaith. Mae darpariaeth yn y Gymraeg yn hanfodol i wella safon y gofal iechyd, iddyn nhw allu dweud wrthych chi beth sydd yn bod arnyn nhw. Ac, wrth gwrs, o ddarparu'r gofal yna, dŷch chi'n lleihau y defnydd o brofion costus fel profion gwaed, uwchsain, pelydr-x ac ati, achos dŷch chi eisoes wedi dod i'r casgliad, i'r dadansoddiad, ar sail hanes y claf yn ei mamiaith.

Nawr, mae'r gwasanaeth iechyd wedi dod yn hwyr yn y dydd i'r busnes cydnabod pwysigrwydd y Gymraeg. Mae pobl wastad wedi dweud wrthyf i ei bod yn ddigon anodd cael meddyg o gwbl, heb sôn bod yn rhaid iddyn nhw siarad Cymraeg, ac rydyn ni wedi clywed hynny pnawn yma. Dyna ydy'r gri groch arferol. Ond ŷch chi'n gwybod beth? Hyd yn oed yn ninas Abertawe mae pedwar meddyg yn fy mhractis bach i yn siarad Cymraeg, heb sôn am y nyrsys ac eraill, yn Abertawe—'scersli belif' buasai pobl yn dweud, ond dyw e ddim yn syndod o gofio bod 31,000 o gleifion dinas Abertawe hefyd yn siarad Cymraeg ac yn haeddu darpariaeth safonol gan y tîm gofal sylfaenol, heb balu amheuon am y peryglon o'r fath ddarpariaeth. Pleidleisiwch o blaid y cynnig.   

Because, particularly in the case of children, older people, people with dementia or who've had a stroke, they can lose their second language. Provision in the Welsh language is crucial to improve the quality of healthcare, so that they can tell you exactly what's wrong with them. And, of course, in providing that care, you reduce the use of expensive tests such as blood tests, x-rays, ultrasound, because you've already come to the diagnosis on the basis of the patient's history in their mother tongue. 

Now, the health service is late in the day in recognising the importance of the Welsh language. People have always told me that it's difficult to get a doctor at all, never mind them having to speak Welsh, and we've heard that this afternoon. That's the usual cry that we hear. But even in the city of Swansea there are four doctors in my small practice who are Welsh speakers, never mind the nurses and others, and that's in Swansea. 'It's hard to believe'—that's what most people would say, but it's no surprise, remembering that 31,000 of the patients in Swansea are also Welsh speakers, and they deserve quality provision from the primary care team, without expressing doubts about the dangers of such provision. So, vote in favour of the motion.  

Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Gohiriaf y bleidlais felly ar yr eitem tan y cyfnod pleidleisio. 

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting under this item until voting time.  

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Voting deferred until voting time.

6. Dadl Aelodau o dan Reol Sefydlog 11.21(iv): Dysgu Hanes Cymru
6. Member Debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv): Teaching the History of Wales

Sy'n dod â ni at yr eitem nesaf, sef y ddadl Aelod o dan Reol Sefydlog 11.21 ar ddysgu hanes Cymru, a dwi'n galw ar Siân Gwenllian i wneud y cynnig.  

Which brings us to the next item, which is the Member debate under Standing Order 11.21 on teaching the history of Wales, and I call on Siân Gwenllian to move the motion. 

Cynnig NDM7068 Sian Gwenllian, Suzy Davies

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod hanes Cymru yn cael ei ddysgu i bob disgybl ysgol yng Nghymru yn ddiwahan.

Motion NDM7068 Sian Gwenllian, Suzy Davies

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales calls on the Welsh Government to ensure that the history of Wales is taught to every school pupil in Wales without exception.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch, a hoffwn i gynnig yn ffurfiol.

Thank you, and I'd like to move the motion formally.

Hoffwn i, cyn dechrau, ddiolch ar ddechrau'r drafodaeth yma i ambell i berson. Diolch i Suzy Davies am gefnogi a hybu'r ddadl. Dwi'n edrych ymlaen at glywed eich sylwadau cloi chi'n nes ymlaen. A diolch i'r rheini a ddaeth ac a gyfrannodd i seminar diweddar wnes i ei gynnal fan hyn yn y Senedd ar hanes Cymru yn y cwricwlwm newydd. Fe gawsom ni drafodaeth ddifyr a chynhyrchiol gan arbenigwyr yn y maes, a chlywed cyflwyniadau gan Eryl Owain, o Ymgyrch Hanes Cymru, Euryn Roberts, hanesydd o Brifysgol Bangor, Martin Johnes, hanesydd o Brifysgol Abertawe, ynghyd ag athrawon ac eraill. Buaswn i hefyd yn leicio diolch i'r rheini sydd wedi dangos diddordeb mawr yn y ddadl yma heddiw yma. Mae'n amlwg bod yna dân yn y bol i gael trafod y pwnc yma, a dwi'n gwybod bod y Pwyllgor Diwylliant, y Gymraeg a Chyfathrebu wedi cynnal balot i weld pa bwnc ddylai gael sylw ganddyn nhw, ac roedd hanes Cymru ymhell ar y brig. Felly, dwi'n edrych ymlaen at weld argymhellion y pwyllgor yn dilyn ei ymchwiliad.

Mae'n amserol cynnal y ddadl yma heddiw yma oherwydd bod cwricwlwm Cymru'n cael ei ail-gynllunio. Mae'r cwricwlwm yn cylchdroi o amgylch sgiliau yn hytrach na chynnwys. Mae yna gryfder yn hynny o beth, ond mae o'n gallu codi problemau, ac mae'n rhaid i ni fod yn ymwybodol o hynny. Mae hanes—yn hytrach na hanes Cymru—yn cael ei enwi mewn rhestr o bynciau sydd i'w dysgu o dan y pennawd 'dyniaethau', sef un o'r ardaloedd dysgu a phrofiad newydd. Mae'r dyniaethau'n cynnwys daearyddiaeth, hanes, addysg grefyddol, cymdeithaseg ac yn y blaen. Maen nhw wedi'u plethu i'w gilydd, ac felly dydy cwricwlwm Donaldson ddim yn gosod unrhyw sylfaen ar gyfer dysgu hanes Cymru fel y cyfryw. A beth sy'n fy mhoeni i am hyn ydy, wrth beidio â chynnwys hanes Cymru o fewn y fframwaith, does yna ddim seilwaith na sicrwydd y byddai hanes Cymru a digwyddiadau hanesyddol o fewn hanes Cymru yn cael eu cynnwys mewn gwersi wrth ddilyn y cwricwlwm newydd. Mae angen troi hynny ar ei ben, ac fe all y cwricwlwm fod yn gyfle arbennig i sicrhau nad yw unrhyw ddisgybl yn colli'r cyfle i ddysgu am hanes Cymru.

A dwi'n awgrymu gwelliant bach syml: dwi'n awgrymu bod 'hanes' yn y rhestr yna o bynciau yn cael ei newid i 'hanes Cymru a'r byd' fel bod ein hasesiad a'n hastudiaethau o hanes y byd yn dod o lens ein persbectif Cymreig. Mae dysgu am hanes Cymru yn allweddol ar gyfer ein cenedlaethau nesaf a'u gwneud nhw'n ddinasyddion gwybodus ac ymgysylltiedig, sef un o ddibenion mawr y cwricwlwm newydd. Yn bresennol, mae yna ofyniad yn y cwricwlwm drafft am ddimensiwn Cymreig, a hynny'n rhedeg drwyddo fo, ond dydy hwnnw ddim yn ganolog i'r cwricwlwm ac mae o'n un llinyn o nifer. 

Yr egwyddor tu ôl i'r cwricwlwm newydd ydy rhoi rhyddid i athrawon i fod yn greadigol pan yn dysgu eu pwnc, ac, yn sicr, mae hynny'n ganmoladwy ac yn dangos cydnabyddiaeth o allu ein hathrawon ni, ond mae perig i argymhellion y Llywodraeth arwain at anghysondeb, ac fe fyddai arferion da sy'n cael eu gweithredu mewn mannau ar hyn o bryd ddim yn cael eu lledu. Felly, mae angen manylder ar sut y bydd y cwricwlwm newydd yn cael ei weithredu, ac yn enwedig o gofio'r toriadau sydd yn digwydd i gyllidebau ysgolion. 

Pwynt pwysig i gadw mewn cof ydy bod dysgu hanes Cymru yn rhan o'r cwricwlwm presennol—i fod. Ond dŷn ni'n gwybod bod miloedd ar filoedd o ddisgyblion wedi bod yn gadael yr ysgol efo dealltwriaeth manwl o hanes yr Almaen Natsïaidd ac enwau chwech gwraig Harri'r VIII, ond nid am hanes eu gwlad eu hunain. Felly, dim deddfwriaeth, dim cynnwys a geiriau cwricwlwm o angenrheidrwydd sydd yn mynd i wneud y gwahaniaeth, ond mae'n bwysig bod hanes Cymru'n cael ei wreiddio yn y ddeddfwriaeth newydd. Ond, fel dwi'n ei ddweud, dydy deddfu ar ben ei hun ddim am greu'r newid dŷn ni am ei weld. Yr un mor bwysig ydy magu arbenigedd o fewn y gweithlu, hyfforddiant priodol, ac, yn bwysig iawn, datblygu adnoddau newydd, cyffrous, gan adeiladu ar yr hyn sydd ar gael yn barod. A rhan o’r broblem ydy'r diffyg gwybodaeth, hyder ac ymwybyddiaeth o fewn ein gweithlu. Efallai nad ydy’r athrawon eu hunain wedi cael cyfle i astudio hanes Cymru yn yr ysgol, ac mae’n rhaid inni dorri ar y cylch yna.

Sôn am yr adnoddau, mae nifer o’r adnoddau yn rhai sydd yn Lloegr-ganolig ac mae yna lawer o adnoddau sydd ddim yn berthnasol, mewn gwirionedd. A beth sydd yn anodd ydy i athrawon gael amser i greu defnyddiau addas ac i ddatblygu syniadau efo athrawon eraill. Mae’r toriadau ar gyllid ysgolion a phrinder staff yn gwneud hynny’n gynyddol anodd, ac mae yna le i brifysgolion hefyd helpu efo’r gwaith o greu’r adnoddau ar y cyd â’r athrawon, ond mae hynna angen ei gefnogi efo arian, ac mae angen rhoi digon o amser i hynny ddigwydd, ac mae angen rhaglen hyfforddiant mewn swydd hefyd, a hynny ar raddfa eang efo cyflwyno’r cwricwlwm newydd.

Mi wnaeth y Prif Weinidog ddweud ddydd Mawrth wrth fy nghydweithiwr Llyr Gruffydd—mi ddywedodd e hyn: bydd hanes Cymru yn rhan ganolog o’r cwricwlwm newydd gydag adnoddau digonol i gefnogi’r gwaith. Gwych. Ond sut mae sicrhau hynny? Mae angen cynllun a ffrydiau gwaith a meini prawf sydd yn mynd i droi’r datganiad yna yn realiti.

Mae hunaniaeth Gymreig yn fyw ac yn iach; mae mwy a mwy o bobl yn falch o’u Cymreictod. Mae pobl yn falch o’u gwreiddiau ac eisiau canfod mwy am bwy ydyn ni fel Cymry. Mae yna ddyletswydd i ymateb i hynny; mae’r dyhead yn amlwg. Rydym ni wedi gweld y diddordeb ymhlith ein pobl ifanc wrth i’r murluniau i gofio boddi cwm Tryweryn godi ar draws y wlad. Ac mae yna ddiddordeb mawr yn y cyfrif Trydar @1919race riots sy’n trydar fel petai ddigwyddiadau terfysgol hiliol y Barri a Chasnewydd ym Mehefin 1919 yn digwydd heddiw. Mi oedd yna gyffro o gwmpas sioe gerdd Tiger Bay, a ddatblygwyd gan Ganolfan y Mileniwm, am hanes dociau amlddiwylliannol a diwydiannol Caerdydd. Tair enghraifft o ddod a’n hanes yn fyw mewn modd creadigol, dirdynnol a real sydd wedi tanio’r awydd yma ym mhobl ifanc i ddysgu mwy. Mae pob cenedl angen gwybod ei stori—beth sydd wedi ei ffurfio, beth yw ei gorffennol.

Dylai pob disgybl dderbyn yr un cyfleoedd i ddysgu am hanes Cymru yn ei holl ffurfiau a’i ddehongliadau mewn ffordd sy’n eu herio nhw ac yn eu hysbrydoli nhw. Mae yna gyfle gwirioneddol efo’r cwricwlwm newydd ac efo’r gwaith sydd yn digwydd o gwmpas hynny i unioni’r cam. Mae’n bryd i’r genhedlaeth nesaf gael gwybod ein stori ni a’n lle ni yn y byd. Diolch.

Before starting, I’d like to thank, at the beginning of this debate, a few people. Thank you to Suzy Davies for promoting and co-sponsoring this debate, and I look forward to hearing your closing comments. And thank you to those who came to and contributed to a recent seminar that I held here in the Senedd on the history of Wales in the new curriculum. We had an interesting and productive discussion from experts in the field, and we heard presentations from Eryl Owain, from the Welsh history campaign, Euryn Roberts, a historian from Bangor University, Martin Johnes, a historian from Swansea University, as well as other teachers and professors. I’d like to also thank those who’ve shown an interest—a great deal of interest—in this debate today. It’s clear that we have fire in our stomachs to discuss this subject, and I know that the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee has held a ballot to see what issues should be focused upon by them, and Welsh history was a clear winner in that ballot, and I look forward to seeing that committee pursuing its inquiry.

Now, it’s timely to hold this debate today, because the Welsh curriculum is being redrawn. The curriculum circulates around skills, rather than content. There is strength in doing that, but it can lead to problems and we have to be aware of that. Now, history, rather than the history of Wales, is named in a list of subjects that are to be taught under the title ‘humanities’, which is one of the areas of learning and experience. Now, humanities includes geography, history, religious education, sociology, and so on. They are intertwined, and so the Donaldson curriculum doesn’t set out any basis for teaching the history of Wales. And so what concerns me about this—not including the history of Wales specifically within the framework—is there is no certainty that the history of Wales and historical events within the history of Wales will be included in lessons in studying the new curriculum. We need to overturn that, and the new curriculum can be a particular opportunity to ensure that not one pupil loses the opportunity to learn about Welsh history.

I suggest a simple amendment: I suggest that 'history', in that list of subjects, should be changed to 'the history of Wales and the world', so that our assessment and our studies of global history come from the lens of our Welsh perspective. Learning about the history of Wales is vital for our next generations to make them informed and engaged citizens, which is one of the purposes of the new curriculum. At present, there is a requirement in the draft curriculum for a Welsh dimension, and that runs through the whole thing, but that isn’t at the heart of the curriculum and it’s one thread amongst many.

The principle behind the new curriculum is to give freedom to teachers to be creative in teaching their subjects, and that is laudable and shows an acknowledgement and recognition of the ability of our teachers, but there is a danger that the Government’s recommendations will lead to inconsistency and that good practice that is implemented in parts at the moment won’t be shared. So, we need detail with regard to how the new curriculum will be implemented, particularly remembering the cuts that are happening to school budgets.

The important point to bear in mind is that teaching the history of Wales is part of the current curriculum—or it’s meant to be. But we know that thousands upon thousands of pupils have been leaving school with a detailed knowledge of the history of Nazi Germany and the names of the six wives of Henry VIII, but not of the history of their own nation. So, it’s not necessarily legislation, the content or wording of the curriculum that will make the difference in that regard, but it is important that the history of Wales is rooted in the new legislation. But, as I said, legislation alone isn’t going to create the change that we want to see. It’s just as important to develop expertise within the workforce, to provide appropriate training and, importantly, to develop new, exciting resources, building on what is already available. And part of the problem is a lack of knowledge, confidence and awareness within our workforce. Perhaps the teachers themselves haven’t had an opportunity to study the history of Wales at school, and we need to break that cycle.

Talking about the resources, a number of the resources are ones that are England-centric, and there are many resources that aren’t relevant, truth be told. And what is difficult is for teachers to have the time to create appropriate materials and to develop ideas with other teachers. The cuts to school budgets and the lack of staff are making that increasingly difficult, and there is room for universities as well to assist in the work of creating the resources jointly with teachers, but that needs to be supported with funding and we need to provide enough time for that to happen, and we need a training programme on a wide range of issues in developing the new curriculum.

The First Minister said on Tuesday to my colleague, Llyr Gruffydd, that the history of Wales will be a central part of the new curriculum, with sufficient resources to support that work. Excellent. But how can we ensure that? We need a plan, we need work streams and criteria that are going to turn that statement into a reality.

The Welsh identity is alive and well. Increasing numbers of people are proud of their Welshness. People are proud of their roots and want to find out more about who we are as a nation. There is a duty to respond to that; the ambition is clear. We’ve seen the interest amongst our young people, as the murals to remember the drowning of Tryweryn have been raised the length and breadth of the nation, and there’s a great deal of interest in the Twitter feed @1919raceriots, which tweets as if the events of the race riots of Barry and Newport in June 1919 were happening today. And there was excitement around the Tiger Bay musical, which was developed by the Wales Millennium Centre, about the history of the multicultural docks here in Cardiff. Just three examples of bringing our history alive in a creative way and in a real way that fires the imagination and fires young people’s interest in learning more. Every nation needs to learn its own story—what has formed it and what its past is.

Every pupil should receive the same opportunities to learn about the history of Wales in its many forms and many interpretations in a way that challenges them and inspires them. There is a genuine opportunity here with the new curriculum and with the work that is happening around that to redress that, and it’s time for the next generation to learn about our story and our place in the world.

16:10

Well, the past informs the future. Many of the myths and legends that have shaped the heritage and culture of Wales refer back to the common past of the Ancient Britons who lived across Britain, named 'Wælisc', or 'Welsh' or 'foreigner' by the invader, but who instead referred to each other as fellow countrymen and women, as 'Cymry'. We sometimes hear about the Roman era, the conquest of Isle of Druids, Caernarfon's Segontium Roman fort, and, more recently, the Roman villas discovered in a settlement on the western shores of modern-day Wales. We hear about the Norman conquest of Wales and the castles they refurbished or built. We need to hear more about that dark bit of history in between, to which so much wonderful heritage relates and where the true origins of the Arthurian legends lie.

It is said that, for a brief moment in time, the Romano-Britons of the west, from Strathclyde to Cornwall and Brittany, stood united against the invader who dared to refer to them as 'foreigners' in their own lands. To reclaim the lost lands and reunite the tribes of Britain was their legacy. The Norman Conquest of Ireland and Britain was driven by the legends of Brutus and Arthur, as rewritten by Geoffrey of Monmouth for his Norman masters. In the winter of 1069-70, 100,000 Britons died in the attempted genocide in northern England by the Normans—the harrying of the north—either from the immediate slaughter and carnage or from the starvation that followed. And yet no memorial stands to mark this terrible loss of life. The rebellions in 1070 by Hereward the Wake in England, in 1294 by Madog ap Llywelyn in Wales, and in 1297 by William Wallace in Scotland were all rebellions by Britons against Norman rule.

Robert the Bruce's father and uncle fought for Norman King Edward I, the 'hammer of the Scots' in the 1282-84 conquest of Wales, owing military service for their English lands. Robert himself is thought to have spent some time at Edward's court during this period and may himself have been involved. In the service of a knight from Flintshire, Sir Gregory Sais, Owain Glyndŵr and his brother Tudur spent a period guarding Berwick-upon-Tweed on the Anglo-Scottish border, and in 1385, Owain and three other family members joined the army that the last Norman king, Richard II, led against Scotland. Having dutifully served this last Plantagenet king, he then plotted with the Percys and the Mortimers to divide the kingdom into three.

Henry VII came from an old established Anglesey family, which claimed descent from Cadwaladr, who was, in legend, the last ancient British king. He was descended through the paternal line from Ednyfed Fychan, the seneschal or steward of Gwynedd, and through the seneschal's wife from Rhys ap Tewdwr, the king of Deheubarth in south Wales. To the bards of Wales, Henry was a candidate for y mab darogan—the son of prophecy—who would free the Welsh from oppression. As such, when he ascended to the throne, he reunited the Romano-Britons in the west with their fellow countrymen and countrywomen—y Cymry in the lost lands to the east.

Henry VII's daughter Margaret married into the Scottish royal family. Her direct descendant was James VI of Scotland, who succeeded Elizabeth I on the throne of England in 1603 and therefore became King James I of a United Kingdom, uniting Scotland with the rest of the UK through inheritance not conquest, the political and economic union passed by the Parliaments of England and Scotland 104 years later. Elizabeth II is a direct descendant of Henry VII via his daughter Margaret, the older sister of Henry VIII.

Flooding of the north Wales village of Capel Celyn in 1965 to create a reservoir to provide water to Liverpool echoed events in Lancashire a century earlier when the chain of Rivington reservoirs were constructed to supply water to Liverpool, with the flooding of many dwellings in local communities and mill and farm land, and, yes, protests in Liverpool.

The economic causes and social impact of modern industrial history are also border blind. After 1970, coal mining practically disappeared in north and south Wales, as well as Northumberland and Durham, Yorkshire, the Scottish central belt, Lancashire, Cumbria, the east and west midlands and Kent. Steelwork closures in 1980 involved Shotton, Consett and Corby. Past myths and present truths such as these combine to provide the foundational legends of our land. The history of Wales and the history of the Britons are therefore intertwined and inseparable, and should be taught to every school pupil in Wales on this basis.

Wel, mae'r gorffennol yn hysbysu'r dyfodol. Mae llawer o'r mythau a'r chwedlau sydd wedi ffurfio treftadaeth a diwylliant Cymru yn cyfeirio’n ôl at orffennol cyffredin yr Hen Frythoniaid a oedd yn byw ledled Prydain, ac a elwid yn 'Wælisc', neu 'Welsh' neu 'estron' gan y goresgynwyr, ond a gyfeiriai at ei gilydd fel cydwladwyr, fel 'Cymry'. Weithiau, clywn am oes y Rhufeiniaid, goresgyniad Ynys y Derwyddon, caer Rufeinig Segontium yng Nghaernarfon, ac yn fwy diweddar, y filâu Rhufeinig a ddarganfuwyd mewn anheddiad ar lannau gorllewinol y Gymru fodern. Clywn am y goncwest Normanaidd yng Nghymru a'r cestyll a adnewyddwyd neu a adeiladwyd ganddynt. Mae angen i ni glywed mwy am y darn tywyll hwnnw o hanes rhwng y cyfnodau hynny, sy’n ymwneud â chymaint o dreftadaeth wych ac sy’n cynnwys gwir darddiad chwedlau Arthur.

Dywedir, am gyfnod byr o amser, fod y Brythoniaid Rhufeinig o'r gorllewin, o Ystrad Clud i Gernyw a Llydaw, wedi sefyll yn unedig yn erbyn y goresgynwyr a feiddiodd gyfeirio atynt fel 'estroniaid' yn eu gwlad eu hunain. Adennill y tiroedd a gollwyd ac aduno llwythau Prydain oedd eu hetifeddiaeth. Ysgogwyd y Goncwest Normanaidd yn Iwerddon a Phrydain gan chwedlau Brutus ac Arthur, fel y cawsant eu hailysgrifennu gan Sieffre o Fynwy ar gyfer ei feistri Normanaidd. Yn ystod gaeaf 1069-70, bu farw 100,000 o wŷr Prydain yn yr ymgais i gyflawni hil-laddiad yng ngogledd Lloegr gan y Normaniaid—anrhaith y gogledd—naill ai yn y laddfa gychwynnol neu o ganlyniad i'r newyn a ddilynodd. Ac eto, ni saif unrhyw gofeb i nodi'r golled ofnadwy hon. Roedd y gwrthryfeloedd yn 1070 gan Hereward Effro yn Lloegr, yn 1294 gan Madog ap Llywelyn yng Nghymru, ac yn 1297 gan William Wallace yn yr Alban oll yn wrthryfeloedd gan wŷr Prydain yn erbyn gormes y Normaniaid.

Ymladdodd tad ac ewythr Robert I, brenin yr Alban, dros frenin y Normaniaid, Edward I, 'morthwyl yr Albanwyr', yn ngoresgyniad Cymru ym 1282-84, gan fod arnynt wasanaeth milwrol yn gyfnewid am eu tiroedd yn Lloegr. Credir bod Robert ei hun wedi treulio peth amser yn llys Edward yn ystod y cyfnod hwn ac efallai ei fod ef ei hun wedi bod yn rhan o’r ymladd. Wrth wasanaethu marchog o sir y Fflint, Syr Gregory Sais, treuliodd Owain Glyndŵr a'i frawd Tudur gyfnod yn gwarchod Caerferwig ar y ffin rhwng Lloegr a’r Alban, ac ym 1385, ymunodd Owain a thri aelod arall o'r teulu â'r fyddin a arweiniodd brenin olaf y Normaniaid, Rhisiart II, yn erbyn yr Alban. Ar ôl gwasanaethu'r brenin Plantagenetaidd olaf yn ufudd, aeth ati wedyn i gynllwynio gyda theulu Percy a theulu Mortimer i rannu'r deyrnas yn dair rhan.

Roedd Harri VII yn hanu o hen deulu ar Ynys Môn, a oedd yn honni eu bod yn ddisgynyddion i Gadwaladr, brenin hynafol olaf Prydain yn ôl y chwedlau. Roedd yn ddisgynnydd ar ochr ei dad i Ednyfed Fychan, distain neu stiward Gwynedd, a thrwy wraig y distain i Rys ap Tewdwr, brenin Deheubarth yn ne Cymru. I feirdd Cymru, roedd cred mai Harri oedd y mab darogan a fyddai'n rhyddhau'r Cymry rhag gorthrwm. O'r herwydd, pan esgynnodd i'r orsedd, fe adunodd y Brythoniaid Rhufeinig yn y gorllewin â'u cydwladwyr—y Cymry yn y tiroedd coll i'r dwyrain.

Priododd merch Harri VII, Marged, aelod o'r teulu brenhinol yn yr Alban. Ei disgynnydd uniongyrchol oedd Iago VI o'r Alban, a olynodd Elisabeth I ar orsedd Lloegr ym 1603 ac felly daeth yn Frenin Iago I ar y Deyrnas Unedig, gan uno'r Alban â gweddill y DU drwy etifeddiaeth yn hytrach na choncwest, yr undeb gwleidyddol ac economaidd a basiwyd gan Seneddau Lloegr a'r Alban 104 o flynyddoedd yn ddiweddarach. Mae Elisabeth II yn ddisgynnydd uniongyrchol i Harri VII drwy ei ferch Marged, chwaer hŷn Harri VIII.

Roedd boddi pentref Capel Celyn yng ngogledd Cymru ym 1965 i greu cronfa i ddarparu dŵr i Lerpwl yn adleisio digwyddiadau yn swydd Gaerhirfryn ganrif yn gynharach pan adeiladwyd cadwyn o gronfeydd dŵr Rivington i gyflenwi dŵr i Lerpwl, pan foddwyd llawer o anheddau mewn cymunedau lleol a thir melino a thir ffermio, a do, cafwyd protestiadau yn Lerpwl.

Mae achosion economaidd ac effaith gymdeithasol hanes diwydiannol modern hefyd yn ddall i ffiniau. Ar ôl 1970, diflannodd y diwydiant glo i bob pwrpas yng ngogledd a de Cymru, yn ogystal ag yn Northumberland a Durham, swydd Efrog, canol yr Alban, swydd Gaerhirfryn, Cumbria, dwyrain a gorllewin canolbarth Lloegr a Chaint. Caewyd gweithfeydd dur yn 1980 yn Shotton, Consett a Corby. Mae mythau’r gorffennol a gwirioneddau’r presennol fel y rhain yn cyfuno i greu chwedlau sylfaenol ein gwlad. Mae hanes Cymru a hanes y Prydeinwyr, felly, yn cydblethu ac yn anwahanadwy, a dylid eu haddysgu i bob disgybl ysgol yng Nghymru ar y sail hon.

16:15

I'm grateful to have the opportunity to speak in this debate, because I hope that history is more to us than simply a list of dates and understanding of the gentry and aristocracy. For me, history is far more than that. It's a history of our people, it's a history of our language, our culture, our geography, our economy. We can't have an economic history without Robert Owen and the impact that he is still having today, and I speak as a Co-operative Member of this Parliament. The culture that was created as a consequence of industrialisation is the culture that I grew up in, and we have to understand certainly the structural, if you like, history of our country.

The Minister will know the history of Cilmeri and its importance to us, and it's important that my son knows that history as well. But the Minister, of course, also, last week, visited the Brinore tramroad in her constituency in Talybont. Now, had the Minister walked along it, then she would've ended up in my constituency in Tredegar, and having walked across the hills and walked through Trefil, she would have passed Chartist cave. Now, I spent 30 years looking for it, I hope she would have more luck. She would have known there the history of Chartist cave where weapons were held before Zephaniah Williams spoke to the people in Tredegar in Twyn Star—he probably spoke in Welsh—and led them on that wet November weekend to the Westgate Hotel in Newport. Those are the things that connect us. They connect Breconshire and Blaenau Gwent and the Heads of the Valleys.

When I was in school, I learnt not only about the industrial revolution—the coincidence of coal, iron ore, timber and water at the Heads of the Valleys that drove an industrial revolution—but I also learned about the history of a people who were created as a consequence of that industrial revolution and a culture that was created by that people. I learnt about the red flag being held aloft by the workers of Merthyr, and I learnt about why they were doing that. I also learnt about the 'black domain' of the Scotch Cattle that enforced the strikes in Tredegar.

I also learnt where the ironworks were in Tredegar. There's no sign there today, but there is a gate to the old NCB works, which tells us another story about our history. That is a history that wasn't necessarily on the curriculum, but it was given to me by inspiring teachers. I still call Mr Darkins 'Mr Darkins' and not 'Jeff'. He inspired me to learn about the Chartists and he inspired me to learn about who we were and where we come from. And PJ—Peter Morgan Jones—who taught us all about the history of what Wales happens to be; he spent time talking to us about Father Ignatius, of course, in Capel-y-ffin, as well. So, we have a cultural, historical and religious history, far more than simply something that happens in a classroom and revolves around dates.

I hope that the Minister, in replying to this debate, would talk to us about what she has called in her work 'cynefin', which I think is a wonderful, untranslatable word that talks to us about where we come from, where we live, where our family lives and where our people live. I hope that the cynefin concept, the idea that we are what we have been made, is something that won't be limited to a history lesson. I hope it'll be a part of our economic lessons, I hope it'll be a part of our geography lessons, I hope it'll be a part of our language lessons, I hope it'll be a part of creating a citizen who understands not only what happened and when, but how that has impacted us today.

Let me say this in closing. I think we need to find a way of doing this outside school as well. Because Mr Darkins and PJ taught me as much outside the classroom as they did within the classroom, by inspiring us to find out more. Everybody of my generation understands and remembers Gwyn Alf and Wynford Vaughan-Thomas arguing across the country and through the generations in The Dragon Has Two Tongues. One of the first protests I went on was to remember the Merthyr rising and to remember what happened there. He spoke then about his personal history as a son of Dowlais, but he also spoke about his experiences on the beaches of Normandy, fighting what he described as the people's war against fascism—again, that resounds down the ages.

History is not always comfortable and not always convenient and not always easy. We are remembering at the moment the race riots in Cardiff. I spoke to people at home in Tredegar about remembering a century after the anti-Jewish riots in 1911. They didn't want to remember that. They were ashamed of what happened in our town in our name and ashamed of what that had done to us, especially now that we are still fighting anti-Semitism in this country. So, our history is not simply what has happened in the past, it's who we are today, and it is our responsibility as parliamentarians and as leaders of this country to ensure that our history remains in the hearts and minds of our people when we seek to create the future for our people.

Rwy'n ddiolchgar am y cyfle i siarad yn y ddadl hon, oherwydd rwy'n gobeithio bod hanes yn fwy i ni na dim ond rhestr o ddyddiadau a dealltwriaeth o'r bonedd a'r uchelwyr. I mi, mae hanes yn llawer mwy na hynny. Mae'n cynnwys hanes ein pobl, hanes ein hiaith, ein diwylliant, ein daearyddiaeth, ein heconomi. Ni allwn gael hanes economaidd heb Robert Owen a'r effaith y mae'n dal i'w chael heddiw, ac rwy'n siarad fel Aelod Cydweithredol o'r Senedd hon. Cefais fy magu yn y diwylliant a grëwyd o ganlyniad i ddiwydiannu, ac yn sicr mae'n rhaid i ni ddeall hanes strwythurol ein gwlad, os mynnwch.

Bydd y Gweinidog yn gwybod hanes Cilmeri a'i bwysigrwydd i ni, ac mae'n bwysig fod fy mab yn gwybod yr hanes hwnnw hefyd. Ond yr wythnos diwethaf wrth gwrs, ymwelodd y Gweinidog â thramffordd Brinore yn ei hetholaeth yn Nhal-y-bont. Nawr, pe bai'r Gweinidog wedi cerdded ar ei hyd, byddai wedi cyrraedd fy etholaeth i yn Nhredegar, a phe bai wedi cerdded ar draws y bryniau a cherdded drwy Drefil, byddai wedi mynd heibio i'r Ogof Fawr. Nawr, treuliais 30 mlynedd yn chwilio amdani, rwy'n gobeithio y byddai hi'n cael mwy o lwc. Byddai wedi gwybod hanes yr Ogof Fawr lle cadwyd arfau cyn i Zephaniah Williams siarad â'r bobl yn Nhredegar yn Twyn Star—mwy na thebyg mai yn Gymraeg y siaradodd—a'u harwain i Westy'r Westgate yng Nghasnewydd ar y penwythnos gwlyb hwnnw ym mis Tachwedd. Dyna'r pethau sy'n ein cysylltu. Maent yn cysylltu sir Frycheiniog a Blaenau Gwent a Blaenau'r Cymoedd.

Pan oeddwn yn yr ysgol, dysgais am y chwyldro diwydiannol—glo, mwyn haearn, coed a dŵr yn cyd-ddigwydd ym Mlaenau'r Cymoedd gan sbarduno chwyldro diwydiannol—ond dysgais hefyd am hanes pobl a grëwyd o ganlyniad i'r chwyldro diwydiannol hwnnw a diwylliant a grëwyd gan y bobl hynny. Dysgais am y faner goch yn cael ei chwifio yn yr awyr gan weithwyr Merthyr, a dysgais pam roeddent yn gwneud hynny. Dysgais hefyd am 'black domain' y Teirw Scotch a orfododd y streiciau yn Nhredegar.

Dysgais hefyd lle roedd y gweithfeydd haearn yn Nhredegar. Nid oes arwydd yno heddiw, ond mae yna giât i hen weithfeydd yr NCB, sy'n dweud stori arall wrthym am ein hanes. Mae hwnnw'n hanes nad oedd o reidrwydd ar y cwricwlwm, ond fe'i clywais gan athrawon ysbrydoledig. Rwy'n dal i alw 'Mr Darkins' yn Mr Darkins ac nid 'Jeff'. Fe wnaeth fy ysbrydoli i ddysgu am y Siartwyr ac fe wnaeth fy ysbrydoli i ddysgu am bwy oeddem ac o ble y daethom. A PJ—Peter Morgan Jones—a ddysgodd bob un ohonom am hanes yr hyn yw Cymru'n digwydd bod; treuliodd amser yn siarad â ni am y Tad Ignatius, wrth gwrs, yng Nghapel-y-ffin, yn ogystal. Felly, mae gennym hanes diwylliannol, hanesyddol a chrefyddol, llawer mwy na rhywbeth sy'n digwydd mewn ystafell ddosbarth ac sy'n cylchdroi o gwmpas dyddiadau.

Gobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog, wrth ymateb i'r ddadl hon, yn siarad â ni am yr hyn y mae wedi'i alw yn ei gwaith yn 'gynefin', sy'n air bendigedig yn fy marn i, gair na ellir ei gyfieithu, sy'n dweud wrthym o ble rydym yn dod, lle rydym yn byw, lle mae ein teulu'n byw a lle mae ein pobl yn byw. Gobeithio bod y cysyniad o gynefin, y syniad mai'r hyn y cawsom ein gwneud ydym ni, yn rhywbeth na chaiff ei gyfyngu i wers hanes. Gobeithio y bydd yn rhan o'n gwersi economaidd, gobeithio y bydd yn rhan o'n gwersi daearyddiaeth, gobeithio y bydd yn rhan o'n gwersi iaith, gobeithio y bydd yn rhan o greu dinesydd sy'n deall, nid yn unig yr hyn a ddigwyddodd a phryd y digwyddodd, ond sut y mae hynny wedi effeithio arnom heddiw.

Gadewch i mi ddweud hyn wrth gloi. Rwy'n credu bod angen i ni ddod o hyd i ffordd o wneud hyn y tu allan i'r ysgol hefyd. Oherwydd fe ddysgodd Mr Darkins a PJ fi y tu allan i'r ystafell ddosbarth lawn cymaint ag y gwnaethant yn yr ystafell ddosbarth, drwy ein hysbrydoli i ddarganfod mwy. Mae pawb o fy nghenhedlaeth i yn deall ac yn cofio Gwyn Alf a Wynford Vaughan-Thomas yn dadlau ar draws y wlad a thrwy'r cenedlaethau yn The Dragon Has Two Tongues. Un o'r protestiadau cyntaf y bûm ynddi oedd protest i gofio terfysg Merthyr ac i gofio'r hyn a ddigwyddodd yno. Siaradodd bryd hynny am ei hanes personol fel un o feibion Dowlais, ond siaradodd hefyd am ei brofiadau ar draethau Normandi, wrth iddo ymladd mewn rhyfel a ddisgrifiodd fel rhyfel y bobl yn erbyn ffasgiaeth—unwaith eto, mae hynny'n atseinio drwy'r oesoedd.

Nid yw hanes bob amser yn gyfforddus ac nid yw bob amser yn gyfleus ac nid yw bob amser yn hawdd. Ar hyn o bryd, rydym yn cofio'r terfysgoedd hil yng Nghaerdydd. Siaradais â phobl gartref yn Nhredegar ynglŷn â chofio canrif wedi'r terfysgoedd gwrth-Iddewig ym 1911. Nid oeddent eisiau cofio hynny. Roedd cywilydd arnynt am yr hyn a ddigwyddodd yn ein tref yn ein henw ni a chywilydd am yr hyn a wnaeth hynny i ni, yn enwedig yn awr a ninnau'n dal i frwydro yn erbyn gwrth-Semitiaeth yn y wlad hon. Felly, mae ein hanes yn cynnwys mwy na'r hyn a ddigwyddodd yn y gorffennol, mae'n cynnwys pwy ydym ni heddiw, a'n cyfrifoldeb ni fel seneddwyr ac fel arweinwyr y wlad hon yw sicrhau bod ein hanes yn aros yng nghalonnau a meddyliau ein pobl wrth i ni geisio creu dyfodol i'n pobl.

16:20

On 13 April this year, we awoke to the news that vandals had destroyed part of the 'Cofiwch Dryweryn' mural near Aberystwyth. It was, no doubt, a political act, and it's given rise to the creation of replica murals across Wales. But the most barbaric element for me was that they had smashed through the word 'cofiwch', meaning 'remember'—an attempt to erase and shatter our memory of our past.

Now, erecting monuments has its place. We are good at that in Wales. But in order for us to feel a sense of ownership of those central moments in our history, good and bad, we have to be taught about them. This is as true of recent history as it is for learning about the early Britons. In order to understand where we are, what we are, we have to know what shaped us. What is undeniable is that we are a nation of storytellers, right back to the sixth-century verses of Aneirin and Taliesin and through to the cyfarwyddion and Gogynfeirdd who relayed our myths, hearth histories and folk tales to crowds of people and their princes. Imaginative stories were, as Gwyn Alf Williams had it, the quickest way over the mountains. Stories have nourished us. They have bound us together. And that is no more true of our own stories, our own histories.

I use the word 'histories' in the plural, and I think it's vitally important that opportunities are found in the new curriculum to relay the histories we don't know as much about: the parts played by Welsh people in great historical events in other parts of the world, like the American revolution, and also to try to uncover new sources, new ways of telling the stories of people who didn't write the history books. I would associate myself too with calls for schools in Cardiff to teach pupils about the race riots that happened 100 years ago. Wales continues to be enriched by the many cultures that have contributed to our stories, and we shouldn't shy away from uglier episodes in our past in order to learn from them.

Ar 13 Ebrill eleni, fe wnaethom ddihuno i'r newyddion fod fandaliaid wedi dinistrio rhan o furlun 'Cofiwch Dryweryn' ger Aberystwyth. Yn ddiau, roedd yn weithred wleidyddol, ac mae wedi arwain at ymdrechion i atgynhyrchu'r murlun ledled Cymru. Ond yr elfen fwyaf barbaraidd i mi oedd y ffaith eu bod wedi chwalu drwy'r gair 'cofiwch'—ymgais i ddileu a chwalu ein cof am ein gorffennol.

Nawr, mae lle i godi henebion. Rydym yn dda am wneud hynny yng Nghymru. Ond er mwyn i ni deimlo ymdeimlad o berchenogaeth ar yr adegau canolog hynny yn ein hanes, yn dda a drwg, mae'n rhaid i ni gael ein dysgu amdanynt. Mae hyn yr un mor wir am hanes diweddar ag ydyw am ddysgu am Brythoniaid cynnar. Er mwyn deall lle rydym, beth ydym, mae'n rhaid i ni wybod beth a'n lluniodd. Yr hyn sy'n ddiymwad yw ein bod yn genedl o storïwyr, yn ôl i benillion Aneirin a Taliesin yn y chweched ganrif i'r cyfarwyddion a'r Gogynfeirdd a adroddodd ein chwedlau, hanesion yr aelwyd a straeon gwerin i dorfeydd o bobl a'u tywysogion. Straeon dychmygol, fel y dywedodd Gwyn Alf Williams, oedd y ffordd gyflymaf dros y mynyddoedd. Mae straeon wedi ein maethu. Maent wedi ein rhwymo gyda'n gilydd. Ac mae hynny'n sicr yn wir am ein straeon ein hunain, ein hanesion ein hunain.

Rwy'n defnyddio'r gair lluosog 'hanesion', ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn hanfodol bwysig dod o hyd i gyfleoedd yn y cwricwlwm newydd i gyfleu'r hanesion nad ydym yn gwybod cymaint amdanynt: y rhannau y mae'r Cymry wedi'u chwarae mewn digwyddiadau hanesyddol gwych mewn rhannau eraill o'r byd, fel y chwyldro Americanaidd, a cheisio dadorchuddio ffynonellau newydd hefyd, ffyrdd newydd o adrodd hanesion pobl na wnaeth ysgrifennu'r llyfrau hanes. Buaswn i'n cysylltu fy hun hefyd â galwadau i sicrhau bod ysgolion yng Nghaerdydd yn addysgu disgyblion am y terfysgoedd hil a ddigwyddodd 100 mlynedd yn ôl. Mae Cymru'n parhau i gael ei chyfoethogi gan y llu o ddiwylliannau sydd wedi cyfrannu at ein straeon, ac ni ddylem osgoi digwyddiadau hyllach yn ein gorffennol er mwyn i ni allu dysgu oddi wrthynt.

Rwyf eisoes wedi cyfeirio at y bardd hwnnw o'r chweched ganrif, Aneirin. Mae ei gampwaith, 'Y Gododdin', yn record lenyddol o luoedd y Gododdin a fu farw mewn brwydr yn yr Hen Ogledd, ardal ger Catterick, neu Catraeth, i roi ei enw Brythoneg. Mae'n amhosib gorbwysleisio arwyddocâd llenyddol a hanesyddol y gerdd hynod hon, gan ei bod ymysg yr hynaf o'i math yn Ewrop—ac mewn sawl ffordd, hap a damwain oedd y ffaith iddi oroesi. Mewn un llinell hynod ddirdynnol, mae Aneirin yn dweud mai 'tawelwch fu' ar ôl y frwydr. Ychydig iawn o dystiolaeth hanesyddol sy'n bodoli ynghylch pobl y Gododdin a'r frwydr a'u dinistriodd. Mae hanes yn dawel yn eu cylch. Mae hyn ond yn profi pa mor bwysig yw adrodd yr hanesion sydd wedi goroesi.

Allwn ni ddim bod yn rhy gyfarwyddol, wrth gwrs, ac mae'n rhaid cael gofod i ysgolion ac athrawon benderfynu'r ffordd orau i blethu hanes lleol i mewn i'w gwersi. Mae sawl ffordd o ddysgu hanes. Nid oes anghenraid iddo fod yn gronolegol nac yn ganonaidd. Gellir dadlau bod llawer gormod o hanes yn rhoi gormod o bwyslais ar weithredoedd brenhinoedd a breninesau, gan esgeuluso profiad pobl gyffredin o wrthryfeloedd lleol a'r newid yn y ffordd oedd y werin yn gweld eu hunain a'u pwysigrwydd o fewn cymdeithas—straeon fel helyntion Beca, Siartwyr Casnewydd a Dic Penderyn. Os yw'r cwricwlwm yn rhy amwys o ran creiddioldeb hanes Cymru, mae peryg y bydd yn cael ei israddio i'r cyrion, neu gael ei ddefnyddio fel troednodyn i hanes byd-eang.

I've already referred to that poet from the sixth century, Aneirin. His masterpiece, 'Y Gododdin', is a literary record of the forces of the Gododdin who died in a battle in the Old North, an area near Catterick, or Catraeth, to give its Brythonic name. It's impossible to overemphasise the literary and historic significance of this extraordinary poem, because it’s among the oldest of its type in Europe—and, in many ways, it was only by accident that it survived. In one exceptional line, Aneirin says that there was silence after the battle—'tawelwch fu'. There is very little historical information about the people of Gododdin or the battle that destroyed them. History is silent about them. This only goes to prove how important it is that we tell those tales that have survived.

We cannot be too prescriptive and we must provide space for teachers and schools to decide on the best way to dovetail local history into their lessons. There are many ways of teaching history. It doesn't necessarily have to be chronological. One could argue that far too much history puts too much emphasis on the acts of kings and queens whilst neglecting the experiences of ordinary people, of local riots and uprisings and the change in the way that ordinary people saw themselves and their importance within society—such as the Chartists, the Rebecca rioters and Dic Penderyn. If the curriculum is too ambiguous about the importance of Welsh history, there's a danger that it will be peripheral or will be a footnote to global history.

In closing, Llywydd, I'd like to quote some more words from Gwyn Alf Williams, who pointed out that that the Welsh have made themselves by telling and retelling their story in generation after generation. He said that Wales is an artefact, which the Welsh produce if they want to. It requires an act of choice. Now, I've spoken about murals and artefacts in my contribution today, but I hope I've also made clear that Welsh history isn't just about stone and masonry; it's about uprisings, unexpected moments, lighting-flash changes. Welsh children all over Wales should learn about it in all its glory.

I gloi, Lywydd, hoffwn ddyfynnu rhagor o eiriau gan Gwyn Alf Williams, a dynnodd sylw at y ffaith bod y Cymry wedi creu eu hunain drwy adrodd ac ailadrodd eu stori o un genhedlaeth i'r llall. Dywedodd mai arteffact yw Cymru, un y bydd y Cymry'n ei gynhyrchu os dymunant wneud hynny. Mae'n galw am weithred o ddewis. Nawr, rwyf wedi siarad am furluniau ac arteffactau yn fy nghyfraniad heddiw, ond rwy'n gobeithio fy mod hefyd wedi egluro nad yw hanes Cymru ond yn ymwneud â cherrig a meini'n unig; mae'n ymwneud â gwrthryfeloedd, munudau annisgwyl, newidiadau ar amrantiad. Dylai plant ledled Cymru ddysgu amdano yn ei holl ogoniant.

16:25

I must say I'm enjoying the speeches in this really quite enchanting and important debate. When Alun was talking about Gwyn Alf's experiences at Normandy—it's the seventy-fifth anniversary; very appropriate that we heard that—I did think perhaps you'd go on to Wynford Vaughan-Thomas and his wonderful autobiography where he, of course, describes that he landed with the allies in the south of France and then fought his way through Burgundy, under occasional threat from the Wehrmacht but constant threat from French hospitality. It's a most incredible account of his experiences, but what wonderful characters they were.

I also appreciate the fact that Alun referred to a teacher, and I want to pay tribute to Roy Adams, who was head of history at Dwr-y-Felin Comprehensive School when I was there in the late 1970s. Now, I realise what an excellent history department that was. At the time, you think it's just normal and everywhere. The teaching of Welsh history was just integrated throughout the curriculum, both in terms of the importance that it was given, but also the feeling and how it connected to British and European history—and that, of course, is what should happen. I must say that I'm sure that I tested his vocation, but he would be pleased to know, I think, that I did the BBC quiz—I hope you've all done that—and I did get them all right, amazingly. [Laughter.] I'm sorry; I've always been an exhibitionist to some extent and I shouldn't boast, but I did get them all right.

I think it's really important that we cherish what makes us. History is always in the making. Beyond bare facts and natural disasters and the brutal events, it is about the importance of what happened, how we understand more. Our view of the battle of Bosworth is very different from the Edwardians'. Our view of the reformation in Wales is very different from what was thought at the height of non-conformity in the nineteenth century. These things constantly have to be examined.

But, I go back to the Cwricwlwm Cymreig, published in 2012, which I think was quite seminal in saying that the importance of Welsh history needed to be examined. It was very balanced, that report, because it said that generally in the UK the teaching of the history of the home nations was poor. I think that this accounts also, perhaps, for the lack of teaching of English history, Scottish history and perhaps Irish history as well, though this goes beyond my own understanding in depth. But, I do think that, in Britain, we have underplayed the importance of the home nations in constituting a greater British experience. Now, some people will not agree with the political dimension of that, but the social, cultural and geographic dimension has always been there, and I think that that needs to come through in the teaching of Welsh history.

But, I do commend what that report said in 2012, because I think it is really quite challenging that Welsh history should be central to the experience of Welsh students, so that everyone has the experience that I had at Dwr-y-Felin Comprehensive School. It is certainly, I think, something that may require us to look at guidance. The materials—I think, again, that report said that heritage-funded organisations in Wales should really be part of developing not only curriculum materials, but also—. Where I was brought up, you could go to Neath Abbey and see the physical consequence of the reformation, and it's really important that young people get that experience.

I do want to finish, however, on the importance of the public understanding of Welsh history, which goes well beyond what happens in school and goes well beyond Wales. I think the public understanding of Welsh history in the rest of the UK is probably the most meagre experience in terms of those who are not Welsh and what they get. I think that they are missing out. How many English people don't realise the significance of their place names? How many people in and around central Scotland—Glasgow and the like—don't have any real understanding of the kingdom of Strathclyde? I went to the National Museum of Scotland once and asked, 'Do you have any collection or material on the kingdom of Strathclyde?' and I was told, 'No, this is the museum of Scotland.' Their concept of Scotland is post the kingdom of Strathclyde. I think that that is something that we should question because I don't think you can understand British history and Welsh history without understanding that the great works that were earlier referred to, the originals tended to be found in that part of what we now call Scotland.

Finally, the British Museum had quite a good exhibition on the Celtic civilization a few years ago. But, where it petered out into alarming nothingness was its treatment of Wales. There was a little bit, but it was almost as if the Celtic civilization had evaporated. You had no sense of, 'Oh, it did continue, actually, through the language, culture and literature of Wales—and, indeed, other parts of the UK, and Spain and France.' This is something that we do need to challenge. It's a really good subject for this backbench debate, and I do commend Siân for bringing it forward.

Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud fy mod yn mwynhau'r areithiau yn y ddadl gyfareddol a phwysig hon. Pan oedd Alun yn sôn am brofiadau Gwyn Alf yn Normandi—mae 75 mlynedd ers hynny; roedd yn briodol iawn ein bod wedi clywed hynny—roeddwn yn meddwl efallai y byddech yn symud ymlaen at Wynford Vaughan-Thomas a'i hunangofiant bendigedig lle mae'n disgrifio sut y glaniodd yntau gyda'r cynghreiriaid yn ne Ffrainc cyn ymladd ei ffordd drwy Fwrgwyn, dan fygythiad achlysurol gan y Wehrmacht a bygythiad cyson lletygarwch Ffrengig. Mae'n gofnod anhygoel o'i brofiadau, ond am gymeriadau bendigedig oeddent.

Rwyf hefyd yn gwerthfawrogi'r ffaith bod Alun wedi cyfeirio at athro, ac rwyf am dalu teyrnged i Roy Adams, a oedd yn bennaeth hanes yn Ysgol Gyfun Dwr-y-Felin pan oeddwn yno yn y 1970au hwyr. Nawr, rwy'n sylweddoli bod honno'n adran hanes ragorol. Ar y pryd, rydych yn credu ei bod yr un fath ym mhobman. Roedd y cysyniad o addysgu hanes Cymru wedi'i integreiddio drwy'r cwricwlwm cyfan, o ran y pwysigrwydd a roddwyd iddo, ond hefyd o ran y teimlad a'r modd y cysylltai â hanes Prydain ac Ewrop—a dyna a ddylai ddigwydd, wrth gwrs. Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud fy mod yn siŵr fy mod wedi profi ei alwedigaeth, ond byddai'n falch o wybod, rwy'n credu, i mi wneud cwis y BBC—gobeithio eich bod chi i gyd wedi gwneud hwnnw—ac fe gefais bob un yn gywir, yn rhyfeddol. [Chwerthin.] Mae'n ddrwg gennyf; rwyf wastad wedi bod yn orchestwr i ryw raddau ac ni ddylwn frolio, ond fe gefais i bob un yn gywir.

Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn ein bod yn mynwesu'r hyn sy'n ein creu ni. Mae hanes bob amser yn cael ei greu. Y tu hwnt i ffeithiau moel a thrychinebau naturiol a'r digwyddiadau creulon, mae'n ymwneud â phwysigrwydd yr hyn a ddigwyddodd, sut  rydym yn deall mwy. Mae'r ffordd yr edrychwn ar frwydr Bosworth yn wahanol iawn i'r ffordd yr edrychai'r Edwardiaid arni. Mae'r olwg a gawn ar y diwygiad yng Nghymru yn wahanol iawn i'r hyn a gredid ar anterth anghydffurfiaeth yn y bedwaredd ganrif ar bymtheg. Mae angen archwilio'r pethau hyn yn gyson.

Ond trof yn ôl at y Cwricwlwm Cymreig, a gyhoeddwyd yn 2012, a chredaf ei fod yn eithaf arloesol yn ddweud bod angen archwilio pwysigrwydd hanes Cymru. Roedd yr adroddiad hwnnw'n gytbwys iawn gan ei fod yn dweud fod addysgu hanes y gwledydd cartref yn y DU yn wael at ei gilydd. Credaf mai hyn sydd i gyfrif hefyd am ddiffyg dysgu hanes Lloegr, hanes yr Alban a hanes Iwerddon yn ogystal, efallai, er bod hyn yn mynd y tu hwnt i fy nealltwriaeth fanwl i. Ond ym Mhrydain, rwy'n credu ein bod wedi bychanu pwysigrwydd y gwledydd cartref fel rhan o brofiad Prydeinig ehangach. Nawr, ni fydd rhai pobl yn cytuno â dimensiwn gwleidyddol hynny, ond mae'r dimensiwn cymdeithasol, diwylliannol a daearyddol wedi bod yno erioed, a chredaf fod angen i hynny fod yn amlwg wrth addysgu hanes Cymru.

Ond rwy'n cymeradwyo'r hyn a ddywedodd yr adroddiad yn 2012, oherwydd credaf ei bod yn eithaf heriol, mewn gwirionedd, y dylai hanes Cymru fod yn ganolog i brofiad myfyrwyr Cymru, fel bod pawb yn cael y profiad a gefais yn Ysgol Gyfun Dwr-y-Felin. Rwy'n credu ei fod yn bendant yn rhywbeth a all ei gwneud yn ofynnol i ni edrych ar ganllawiau. Dylai'r deunyddiau—rwy'n credu, unwaith eto, fod yr adroddiad hwnnw wedi dweud y dylai sefydliadau sy'n cael eu hariannu ar sail treftadaeth yng Nghymru fod yn rhan o ddatblygu deunyddiau cwricwlwm yn ogystal â—. Lle cefais fy magu, gallech fynd i Fynachlog Nedd a gweld canlyniad ffisegol y diwygiad, ac mae'n bwysig iawn fod pobl ifanc yn cael y profiad hwnnw.

Rwyf am orffen, fodd bynnag, drwy sôn am bwysigrwydd dealltwriaeth y cyhoedd o hanes Cymru, sy'n mynd ymhell y tu hwnt i'r hyn sy'n digwydd yn yr ysgol ac ymhell y tu hwnt i Gymru. Rwy'n credu bod dealltwriaeth y cyhoedd o hanes Cymru yng ngweddill y DU yn fychan iawn yn ôl pob tebyg, o ran y rheini nad ydynt yn Gymry a'r hyn a gânt hwy. Credaf eu bod ar eu colled. Faint o bobl yn Lloegr sy'n sylweddoli arwyddocâd eu henwau lleoedd? Faint o bobl yng nghanol yr Alban a'r cyffiniau—Glasgow a llefydd tebyg—sydd ag unrhyw ddealltwriaeth wirioneddol o deyrnas Ystrad Clud? Euthum i Amgueddfa Genedlaethol yr Alban unwaith a gofyn, 'A oes gennych unrhyw gasgliad neu ddeunydd ar deyrnas Ystrad Clud?' a dywedwyd wrthyf, 'Na, amgueddfa'r Alban yw hon.' Nid yw eu cysyniad hwy o'r Alban yn cynnwys teyrnas Ystrad Clud. Credaf fod hynny'n rhywbeth y dylem ei gwestiynu gan nad wyf yn credu y gallwch ddeall hanes Prydain a hanes Cymru heb ddeall bod y gweithiau mawr y cyfeiriwyd atynt yn gynharach, y rhai gwreiddiol, yn tueddu i gael eu canfod yn y rhan honno o'r wlad rydym yn ei galw'n Alban yn awr.

Yn olaf, roedd gan yr Amgueddfa Brydeinig arddangosfa eithaf da ar y gwareiddiad Celtaidd ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl. Ond prin iawn oedd ei thriniaeth o Gymru. Roedd yna rywfaint bach, ond roedd hi bron fel pe bai'r gwareiddiad Celtaidd wedi anweddu. Nid chaech unrhyw ymdeimlad o, 'O, fe wnaeth barhau, mewn gwirionedd, drwy iaith, diwylliant a llenyddiaeth Cymru—ac yn wir, mewn rhannau eraill o'r DU, Sbaen a Ffrainc.' Mae hyn yn rhywbeth y mae angen i ni ei herio. Mae'n bwnc gwirioneddol dda ar gyfer y ddadl meinciau cefn hon, ac rwy'n canmol Siân am ei gyflwyno.

16:30

I don't think you'll find a Member in this Chamber today who is more passionate about Welsh history and the teaching of Welsh history than me, as someone with a degree in history and Welsh history from Cardiff University and a Master's in modern Welsh history from the same institution, and more importantly, someone who taught history in a secondary school at key stage 3, GCSE and A-level for 16 years to pupils of all abilities, including those in discrete ALN classes. Welsh history has always been a key part of my professional working life before I arrived at this place, and I'm very proud of the role that I've been able to personally play in helping to educate thousands of young people over those years in the passion, drama and identity of our nation's history.

Nid wyf yn meddwl y dowch o hyd i Aelod yn y Siambr hon heddiw sy'n fwy angerddol ynglŷn â hanes Cymru ac addysgu hanes Cymru na fi, fel rhywun sydd â gradd mewn hanes a hanes Cymru o Brifysgol Caerdydd a gradd Meistr yn hanes modern Cymru o'r un sefydliad, ac yn bwysicach, rhywun a fu’n addysgu hanes mewn ysgol uwchradd yng nghyfnod allweddol 3, TGAU a Safon Uwch am 16 mlynedd i ddisgyblion o bob gallu, gan gynnwys y rheini mewn dosbarthiadau ADY penodol. Roedd hanes Cymru bob amser yn rhan allweddol o fy mywyd gwaith proffesiynol cyn i mi gyrraedd y lle hwn, ac rwy'n falch iawn o'r rôl y gallais ei chwarae'n bersonol yn helpu i addysgu miloedd o bobl ifanc dros y blynyddoedd ynghylch angerdd, drama a hunaniaeth hanes ein cenedl.

And yet today I'm unsure whether or not I will actually be able to support this motion, because I do believe that it may ill-thought-through. I will listen intently to the comments of the Minister on this matter before making my decision, but I want to pick up on the most obvious point. It's a very delicate point, but a point that really does need to be made.

The motion states that the history of Wales should be taught to every school pupil in Wales without exception. This is clearly a blanket proposal that views young people as a homogenous mass, and I believe that that is actually unrealistic. It overlooks the fact that we have some pupils within our special school system, not all of them, but a number, with very complex learning disabilities. Take, for example, a pupil who may be both blind and deaf, learning disabilities that are so complex that the delivery of basic literacy and numeracy skills may be a significant challenge for them. For some, their education is quite rightly focused on basic life skills. Are we really, as a group of politicians, nearly all of us lacking in expertise in the delivery of education, going to say that we know how best to educate those pupils with the most complex learning needs? Have we consulted with experts as to whether this approach would be possible or indeed beneficial? I think the answer is that we have not, but I will listen intently to what the Minister says, and I hope that she'll be able to make a comment about that specific point.

That is, of course, not to say that the teaching of Welsh history should only be the preserve of a certain cohort, and I would strongly argue that this has never been the case. Welsh history has always been firmly embedded in the national curriculum throughout the key stages, and in all my years of teaching I have never met a teacher who failed to make full use of Welsh history topics and case studies in all of their lessons. These were very often the ones that were most popular amongst students, too. So I do object to the comments made by Siân Gwenllian when she said that thousands of pupils leave school every year without a full understanding of Welsh history, and I wonder what evidence she's used for those comments when we know that Estyn has never raised any systematic criticisms of the teaching of Welsh history in our schools.

I do think it's important also to note the role of our teacher training institutions in this area. I spent many years working with Swansea University, with Cardiff Met and with Trinity St David's as a mentor for history PGCE students. What I saw was consistent good practice, with very many hours of university classroom time being devoted to ensuring that PGCE students, especially those from outside Wales, completed their course with a very thorough grounding in Welsh history, having been assessed rigorously in the classroom for their delivery of that too. There's absolutely no reason to suggest that any of that will change with the roll-out of the new curriculum, 'Successful Futures', even for the most cynical observer, and unfortunately we appear to have some of those in the Chamber today.

It is a long-held truth that teachers will teach the topics that their students will be assessed on. Welsh history has always been firmly embedded in history GCSE, and it is a relatively strong feature in A-level syllabuses too, although I do agree that more could be done to make it a more prominent feature here. The revised course content for GCSE, AS and A-level all still require the development of a Welsh perspective, at times through individual Welsh history modules and at other times by linking Welsh history to a national or international perspective. As long as Welsh history remains on the syllabus for exam-level classes you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be taught, and taught well—not just at key stage 4 and key stage 5, but also at earlier key stages as teachers prepare their pupils for the future.

However, I would also argue very strongly that the natural love and enthusiasm for Welsh history amongst those in the teaching profession is its greatest asset, and we do teachers a terrible disservice in implying that that enthusiasm or the skills to research and deliver lessons on perhaps unfamiliar topics are not there. Local history examples are the very best way to get students engaged in a topic. Teachers know this, they're inspired by this, and they work very hard to deliver lessons based around this too. So, let's trust our professionals, let's trust our exam system, and let's trust in our young people too.

Ac eto heddiw rwy'n ansicr a fyddaf yn gallu cefnogi'r cynnig hwn ai peidio, oherwydd credaf efallai nad ydych wedi meddwl drwyddo'n iawn. Fe wrandawaf yn astud ar sylwadau'r Gweinidog ar y mater cyn gwneud fy mhenderfyniad, ond hoffwn dynnu sylw at y pwynt mwyaf amlwg. Mae'n bwynt sensitif iawn, ond yn bwynt y mae angen ei wneud mewn gwirionedd.

Mae'r cynnig yn nodi y dylid addysgu hanes Cymru i bob disgybl ysgol yng Nghymru yn ddieithriad. Nawr, mae hwn yn amlwg yn gynnig cyffredinol sy'n ystyried pobl ifanc fel màs unffurf, a chredaf fod hynny'n afrealistig mewn gwirionedd. Mae'n diystyru’r ffaith bod gennym rai disgyblion yn ein system ysgolion arbennig, nid pob un ohonynt, ond nifer, gydag anableddau dysgu cymhleth iawn. Er enghraifft, cymerwch ddisgybl sy’n ddall ac yn fyddar efallai, gydag anableddau dysgu sydd mor gymhleth fel y gallai cyflwyno sgiliau llythrennedd a rhifedd sylfaenol fod yn her sylweddol iddynt. I rai, mae eu haddysg yn canolbwyntio ar sgiliau bywyd sylfaenol, ac yn briodol felly. Fel grŵp o wleidyddion, a bron bob un ohonom heb arbenigedd ym maes addysg, a ydym yn mynd i ddweud ein bod yn gwybod beth yw'r ffordd orau o addysgu'r disgyblion sydd â'r anghenion dysgu mwyaf cymhleth? A ydym wedi ymgynghori ag arbenigwyr i weld a fyddai'r dull hwn yn bosibl neu'n fuddiol yn wir? Credaf mai'r ateb yw nad ydym wedi gwneud hynny, ond rwy’n mynd i wrando'n astud ar yr hyn y mae'r Gweinidog yn ei ddweud, a gobeithiaf y bydd yn gallu gwneud sylw ar y pwynt penodol hwnnw.

Nid yw hynny’n gyfystyr â dweud wrth gwrs mai carfan benodol yn unig a ddylai ddysgu hanes Cymru, a buaswn yn dadlau'n gryf na fu hyn yn wir erioed. Mae hanes Cymru bob amser wedi ei wreiddio'n gadarn yn y cwricwlwm cenedlaethol ar draws y cyfnodau allweddol, ac yn fy holl flynyddoedd o addysgu, nid wyf erioed wedi cyfarfod ag athro a fethodd wneud defnydd llawn o bynciau ac astudiaethau achos hanes Cymru yn eu holl wersi. Yn aml iawn y rhain oedd y rhai mwyaf poblogaidd ymysg myfyrwyr hefyd. Felly rwy'n gwrthwynebu sylwadau Siân Gwenllian pan ddywedodd fod miloedd o ddisgyblion yn gadael yr ysgol bob blwyddyn heb ddealltwriaeth lawn o hanes Cymru, a tybed pa dystiolaeth a ddefnyddiodd ar gyfer y sylwadau hynny a ninnau’n gwybod nad yw Estyn erioed wedi gwneud unrhyw feirniadaeth systematig o’r modd y caiff hanes Cymru ei addysgu yn ein hysgolion.

Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig nodi rôl ein sefydliadau hyfforddi athrawon yn y maes hwn hefyd. Treuliais flynyddoedd lawer yn gweithio gyda Phrifysgol Abertawe, gyda Met Caerdydd a chyda’r Drindod Dewi Sant fel mentor ar gyfer myfyrwyr TAR mewn hanes. Yr hyn a welais oedd arferion da yn gyson, gyda nifer fawr o oriau o amser y dosbarthiadau prifysgol yn cael eu neilltuo i sicrhau bod myfyrwyr TAR, yn enwedig y rhai o'r tu allan i Gymru, wedi cwblhau eu cwrs gyda sylfaen drylwyr iawn mewn hanes Cymru ar ôl cael eu hasesu'n drwyadl yn yr ystafell ddosbarth mewn perthynas â chyflwyno hwnnw hefyd. Nid oes unrhyw reswm o gwbl dros awgrymu y bydd dim o hynny’n newid wrth i'r cwricwlwm newydd, 'Dyfodol Llwyddiannus', gael ei gyflwyno, hyd yn oed i'r sylwebydd mwyaf sinigaidd, ac yn anffodus mae'n ymddangos bod gennym rai o'r rheini yn y Siambr heddiw.

Mae'n wir ers amser maith y bydd athrawon yn addysgu'r pynciau y bydd eu myfyrwyr yn cael eu hasesu arnynt. Mae hanes Cymru bob amser wedi'i wreiddio'n gadarn yn y TGAU hanes, ac mae'n nodwedd gymharol gryf mewn meysydd llafur Safon Uwch hefyd, er fy mod yn cytuno y gellid gwneud mwy i'w wneud yn nodwedd fwy amlwg yma. Mae cynnwys y maes llafur diwygiedig ar gyfer TGAU, UG a Safon Uwch i gyd yn dal i fod angen datblygu persbectif Cymreig, ar adegau trwy fodiwlau hanes Cymru unigol ac ar adegau eraill drwy gysylltu hanes Cymru â phersbectif cenedlaethol neu ryngwladol. Cyhyd â bod hanes Cymru yn parhau i fod ar y maes llafur ar gyfer dosbarthiadau lefel arholiad, gallwch fod yn sicr y bydd yn cael ei addysgu, a'i addysgu'n dda—nid yn unig yng nghyfnod allweddol 4 a chyfnod allweddol 5, ond hefyd mewn cyfnodau allweddol cynharach wrth i athrawon baratoi eu disgyblion ar gyfer y dyfodol.

Fodd bynnag, buaswn hefyd yn dadlau'n gryf iawn mai’r cariad a'r brwdfrydedd naturiol dros hanes Cymru ymhlith y rhai yn y proffesiwn addysgu yw ei ased mwyaf, ac rydym yn gwneud cam mawr ag athrawon drwy awgrymu nad ydynt yn meddu ar y brwdfrydedd neu'r sgiliau i ymchwilio a chyflwyno gwersi ar bynciau sydd efallai’n anghyfarwydd. Enghreifftiau o hanes lleol yw'r ffordd orau oll o gael myfyrwyr i ymddiddori mewn pwnc. Mae athrawon yn gwybod hyn, cânt eu hysbrydoli gan hyn, ac maent yn gweithio'n galed iawn i gyflwyno gwersi’n seiliedig ar hyn hefyd. Felly, gadewch i ni ymddiried yn ein gweithwyr proffesiynol, gadewch i ni ymddiried yn ein system arholiadau, a gadewch i ni ymddiried yn ein pobl ifanc hefyd.

16:40

There are some comforting non-threatening stereotypes available when people nowadays, in the UK generally, feel the need to give a nod towards the existence of Wales. It doesn't happen often—Wales is usually ignored. This has been pointed out. Its own unique, ancient history is merely the stuff of myths and legends, people say. Not any truth at all, is there? This week, we had Tom Watson MP announcing to fanfares a proposal to change Labour's policy to campaign for a second referendum and a remain vote. Mark Drakeford already said that two weeks ago. But that was in Wales; it doesn't count. It doesn't even register.

Anyway, those comforting stereotypes that people have when trying to talk about their Welsh friends: we all sing in choirs; we all play rugby, now football; we all eat Caerphilly cheese, cawl, leek. Non-threatening, even passionate, those stereotypes, in their place. But don't mistake that for expressions of political national freedom, though, will you?

I nearly choked on my laverbread, leek and Welsh cake combo this week, when I read in the South Wales Evening Post about the old dialect in Swansea—meaning Welsh, the Welsh language. No old dialect, but living Welsh, and one of Europe's oldest living languages, spoken on the banks of the Tawe for the last 2,000 years and still being spoken by 31,000 people in Swansea today.

Ceir rhai stereoteipiau cysurus nad ydynt yn fygythiol pan fydd pobl y dyddiau hyn, yn y DU yn gyffredinol, yn teimlo bod angen cydnabod bodolaeth Cymru. Nid yw'n digwydd yn aml—fel arfer caiff Cymru ei hanwybyddu. Cafodd hyn ei nodi. Mae pobl yn dweud mai mythau a chwedlau yw ei hanes unigryw, hynafol hi. Nid oes unrhyw wirionedd o gwbl yn perthyn iddo, oes yna? Yr wythnos hon, rhoddwyd llawer iawn o sylw i’r ffaith bod Tom Watson AS yn cyhoeddi cynnig i newid polisi Llafur i ymgyrchu dros ail refferendwm a phleidlais dros aros. Dywedodd Mark Drakeford hynny eisoes bythefnos yn ôl. Ond digwyddodd hynny yng Nghymru; nid yw'n cyfrif. Nid yw hyd yn oed yn cael ei nodi.

Beth bynnag, y stereoteipiau cysurus hynny sydd gan bobl wrth iddynt geisio siarad am eu ffrindiau yng Nghymru: rydym i gyd yn canu mewn corau; rydym i gyd yn chwarae rygbi, pêl-droed bellach; rydym i gyd yn bwyta caws Caerffili, cawl, cennin. Stereoteipiau nad ydynt yn fygythiol, maent hyd yn oed yn deimladwy yn eu lle. Ond peidiwch, da chi, â chamgymryd rhwng hynny a mynegiant o ryddid cenedlaethol gwleidyddol.

Bu bron i mi dagu ar fy mhryd o fara lawr, cennin a theisennau cri yr wythnos hon pan ddarllenais yn y South Wales Evening Post am yr hen dafodiaith yn Abertawe—a'r hyn a olygai oedd Cymraeg, yr iaith Gymraeg. Nid hen dafodiaith, ond Cymraeg byw, ac un o ieithoedd byw hynaf Ewrop, a fu’n cael ei siarad ar lannau'r Tawe ers 2,000 o flynyddoedd, ac sy’n dal i gael ei siarad gan 31,000 o bobl yn Abertawe heddiw.

Mae dros 1,000 o eiriau Lladin yn y Gymraeg, achos roedd yr ieithoedd yma yn cydfyw efo'i gilydd pan oedd y Rhufeiniad mewn grym bron i 2,000 o flynyddoedd yn ôl. Mae Cymraeg a ysgrifennwyd 1,500 mlynedd yn ôl i’w gweld yn Aberystwyth heddiw, Cymraeg a ysgrifennwyd yng Nghaeredin, a hen Gymraeg yn cael ei siarad dros ynys Prydain o Glasgow—fel y dywedodd David Melding, mae 'Glasgow' yn hen air Cymraeg—i lawr weddill ynys Prydain.

Ond fel sawl gwlad arall, wrth gwrs, mae gyda ni hanes o orthrwm hynod waedlyd drwy law'r Sacsoniaid ac eraill a gyrhaeddodd ynys Prydain o’r chweched ganrif ymlaen. A bu i ni frwydro am ein hannibyniaeth lawr y canrifoedd. Hywel Dda, Gwenllian, Llywelyn, Owain Glyndŵr—dyna ein hanes. Nid myth neu legend. A'n hanes gwerinol fel cadarnle anghydffurfiaeth a Christnogaeth, a phobl yn stopio yfed alcohol a chwarae rygbi adeg diwygiad 1904-05 ac am flynyddoedd wedyn. Dyna ein hanes. Nid myth na legend.

There are over 1,000 Latin words in the Welsh language because these languages co-existed when the Romans were in power almost 2,000 years ago. Welsh written 1,500 years ago is to be seen in Aberystwyth today, Welsh written in Edinburgh, and old Welsh spoken across the British isles from Glasgow—as David Melding said, 'Glasgow' is an old Welsh word—down throughout the British isles.

But as with several other nations, we have a history of bloody oppression at the hands of the Saxons and others who arrived at the British isles from the sixth century onwards. And we battled for our independence across the centuries. Hywel Dda, Gwenllian, Owain Glyndŵr, Llywelyn—that’s our history. It’s not a myth or a legend. And our folk history as the base for non-conformity and Christianity, and people stopping drinking alcohol and playing rugby during the revival of 1904-05 and for years afterwards. That’s our history. It’s not a legend or a myth.

And the Welsh language mediated Merthyr riots, Chartist riots and Rebecca riots— riots in the received history of Britain; uprisings in folk, working people's memory. The Merthyr uprising and Dic Penderyn saying, 'Duw, dyma gamwedd', as he is led to the scaffold an innocent man. And these uprisings, as Alun Davies said, co-ordinated in Welsh, brought about, subsequently, the treachery of the blue books and the Welsh not, to beat the Welsh language out of us as children.

I was in Dubrovnik some years ago, and a Croatian boatman in the harbour said, 'Yes, the Welsh, the original indigenous inhabitants of the British isles. We are taught that in the schools of Croatia.' It would be good if it was taught in the schools of Wales.

And 'Cofiwch Dryweryn', the recent outbreak—. David.

A therfysgoedd cyfrwng Cymraeg Merthyr Tudful, terfysgoedd y Siartwyr a therfysgoedd Rebeca—terfysgoedd yn hanes cydnabyddedig Prydain; gwrthryfeloedd yng nghof y werin, yng nghof gweithwyr. Terfysg Merthyr a Dic Penderyn yn dweud, 'Duw, dyma gamwedd' wrth iddo gael ei arwain at y sgaffald yn ddyn diniwed. Ac arweiniodd y gwrthryfeloedd hyn, fel y dywedodd Alun Davies, gwrthryfeloedd a gafodd eu cydlynu yn Gymraeg, at frad y llyfrau gleision wedi hynny a’r 'Welsh not', i guro'r iaith Gymraeg allan ohonom yn blant.

Roeddwn yn Dubrovnik rai blynyddoedd yn ôl, a dywedodd cychwr Croataidd yn yr harbwr, 'Ie, y Cymry, trigolion brodorol gwreiddiol ynysoedd Prydain. Rydym yn dysgu hynny yn ysgolion Croatia.' Byddai'n dda pe bai'n cael ei addysgu yn ysgolion Cymru.

A 'Cofiwch Dryweryn', yr achosion diweddar—. David

I'm loath to point this out, but I think it's highly disputed that we were the indigenous people of the British isles. The British isles was settled just after the last ice age. Magnificent as our Celtic inheritance is, there were people here before that.

Rwy'n gyndyn i dynnu sylw at hyn, ond rwy'n credu ei bod yn ddadleuol iawn mai ni oedd pobl gynhenid ynysoedd Prydain. Roedd pobl wedi ymsefydlu ar ynysoedd Prydain yn union wedi'r oes iâ ddiwethaf. Er mor wych yw ein hetifeddiaeth Geltaidd, roedd pobl yma cyn hynny.

I was quoting the Croatian national linguistic experience.

Cofiwch Dryweryn—let me bring you forward a few millennia, David. The recent outbreak of murals to remember the forced removal of a Welsh-speaking village in 1965 to provide water for Liverpool—water that that city then subsequently did not use in the teeth of fierce opposition. That long-standing wall in Ceredigion, in the Llywydd's constituency, was recently vandalised, as we all know. And people say, 'But, people know about Tryweryn, surely—don't they?' Well, Bridgend council don't. They claim 'Cofiwch Dryweryn' is an advert and needs planning permission. People need to know the history of Wales. It shouldn't depend on individual teacher experiences. And let's not be afraid. People say the history of the majority of British culture is education—1066 and all that—whereas the history of Wales is ideology. Surely not. An inconvenient truth, perhaps. Welsh history is an inconvenient truth, but education nonetheless. Diolch yn fawr. 

Roeddwn yn cyfeirio at y profiad ieithyddol cenedlaethol yn Croatia.

Cofiwch Dryweryn—gadewch i mi eich symud ymlaen rai milenia, David. Yr holl furluniau a baentiwyd yn ddiweddar i gofio am y modd y gorfodwyd pentref cyfan Cymraeg ei iaith yn 1965 i symud er mwyn darparu dŵr i Lerpwl—dŵr na chafodd ei ddefnyddio gan y ddinas honno wedyn yn wyneb gwrthwynebiad ffyrnig. Cafodd y wal hirsefydlog honno yng Ngheredigion, yn etholaeth y Llywydd, ei fandaleiddio'n ddiweddar, fel y gŵyr pawb ohonom. Ac mae pobl yn dweud, 'Ond mae pobl yn gwybod am Dryweryn, siŵr iawn—onid ydynt?' Wel, nid yw cyngor Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr yn gwybod. Maent yn honni bod 'Cofiwch Dryweryn' yn hysbyseb a bod gofyn cael caniatâd cynllunio ar ei gyfer. Mae angen i bobl wybod hanes Cymru. Ni ddylai ddibynnu ar brofiadau athrawon unigol. A gadewch i ni beidio â bod ofn. Mae pobl yn dweud bod hanes y mwyafrif o ddiwylliant Prydain yn addysg—1066 a hynny i gyd—ond mai ideoleg yw hanes Cymru. Does bosibl. Gwirionedd anghyfleus, efallai. Mae hanes Cymru yn wirionedd anghyfleus, ond yn addysg serch hynny. Diolch yn fawr.

16:45

Well, it's difficult to follow that, really, but I'll do my best. [Laughter.] I'll try and avoid repeating some of things that have been said, many of which I agree with. I very much welcome, Siân, that you brought this debate here. It's something I wrote about a while back after doing a number of talks in schools on historical issues and was surprised, actually, at the scale to which local historical events of incredible magnitude were not known, not only by the pupils but also by the teachers.

I do present, I think, a certain concern, carefulness, cautiousness about the teaching of history. Because when we talk about the history, we're talking about the history of people. We're talking about social history. We're talking also, very importantly in the Welsh context, about class. These are issues that don't just apply to Wales. They apply to England. You can very much criticize the teaching of history in England and in many other parts of the world, and the presentation of the teaching of the history of the British empire. And it's partly because history has tended to be selective, by those who were in control, and presenting a particular issue. So, the teaching of events during the British empire, the Amritsar massacre, the famine in Ireland, in England the Peterloo massacre—they're all matters that have only really now come to the fore as we begin to have a more accurate, I think, discussion around history. So, history is not about a particular version of history or even about a particular interpretation of history; it's about providing the information, the analysis, the local knowledge, the local facts, to allow people to develop the capacity to interpret history.

One of the issues that concerned me was, for example, the teaching in the Taff Ely area when I was in school. We talked about Dr William Price, and, of course, everybody knows that that's the bloke who cremated his son, wasn't it? But the importance was that it represented a challenge and a break between law based on church law as opposed to common law, because cremation was a direct attack on the belief in the reincarnation, the resurrection of the body—it was a fundamental change. And I've never heard that ever discussed or talked about or interpreted in any particular way. I've not heard any discussion within our schools about the importance of local people or the importance of people like Arthur Horner, people like Will Paynter who led the National Unemployed Workers' Movement—a very, very significant factor within Wales. 

I live in Tonyrefail in the Ely valley. In the Taff vale, of course, was one of the major legal cases arising out of an industrial dispute that led to one of the major issues around the freedom of people to organise, which led to the Trade Disputes Act of 1906. I've never heard it discussed. Yet, it is actually a very fundamental part of our understanding of the development of democratic processes. So, those are my comments on that, because, I agree, there is a lot of good teaching of Welsh history, I'm sure, but there are also enormous gaps in it and there is enormous weakness in terms of the localisation of the teaching, and particularly the teaching of class history, the history around the movements, around people and around class. That is what I would like to see resurrected.

The point I made during one of the committee sessions on this, which to me I think is very important, is actually the issue of the training of teachers and how that is adapted and how we actually take all these particular views in terms of a more effective teaching of local and Welsh history. That seems to me to be an issue. And also, the lack of availability of resources—the lack of specific materials that actually promote, that analyse, that talk about these social movements, that talk about mutualism and co-operativism. Co-operativism had one of its major developments in the Ynysybwl area, and led to the establishment of a major co-operative movement. So, all these things are there that are fundamentally important to us.

So, what I would hope is that, in the development of the new curriculum in terms of the teaching, we have a teaching of Wales. I've no problems with the wording of the motion, just that we do need to be cautious about our interpretation of precisely what we're talking about, what it means. But what it is, very importantly, is a recognition that there is a long way to go in Wales and in the rest of the UK, and in parts of Europe and the rest of the world, about, I think, a new, a modern and an honest and open approach to the teaching of history.      

Wel, mae'n anodd dilyn hynny, mewn gwirionedd, ond fe wnaf fy ngorau. [Chwerthin.] Ceisiaf osgoi ailadrodd rhai o'r pethau a ddywedwyd, a chytunaf â llawer ohonynt. Siân, rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith eich bod wedi cyflwyno'r ddadl hon yma. Mae'n rhywbeth yr ysgrifennais amdano beth amser yn ôl ar ôl gwneud nifer o sgyrsiau i ysgolion ar faterion hanesyddol a chefais fy synnu mewn gwirionedd i ba raddau nad oeddent yn gwybod am ddigwyddiadau hanesyddol lleol o bwys anhygoel, nid yn unig y disgyblion ond yr athrawon hefyd.

Rwy'n credu fy mod yn cyflwyno pryder penodol, gofal, gwyliadwriaeth, ynglŷn â dysgu hanes. Oherwydd pan fyddwn yn sôn am yr hanes, rydym yn sôn am hanes pobl. Rydym yn sôn am hanes cymdeithasol. Rydym yn siarad hefyd, yn bwysig iawn yn y cyd-destun Cymreig, am ddosbarth. Mae'r rhain yn faterion sy'n berthnasol i fwy na Chymru'n unig. Maent yn berthnasol i Loegr. Gallwch feirniadu'r modd y dysgir hanes yn Lloegr ac mewn llawer o rannau eraill o'r byd yn hallt, a'r modd y cyflwynir hanes yr ymerodraeth Brydeinig. Ac mae'n rhannol oherwydd bod hanes wedi tueddu i fod yn ddetholus, gan y rhai a oedd yn rheoli, ac yn cyflwyno mater penodol. Felly, wrth addysgu digwyddiadau yn ystod yr ymerodraeth Brydeinig, cyflafan Amritsar, y newyn yn Iwerddon, cyflafan Peterloo yn Lloegr—rwy'n credu eu bod oll yn faterion sydd ond wedi dod i'r amlwg yn awr mewn gwirionedd wrth inni ddechrau cael trafodaeth fwy manwl gywir ar hanes. Felly, nid yw hanes yn ymwneud â fersiwn arbennig o hanes neu hyd yn oed â dehongliad penodol o hanes; mae'n ymwneud â darparu'r wybodaeth, y dadansoddiad, y wybodaeth leol, y ffeithiau lleol, a galluogi pobl i ddatblygu'r gallu i ddehongli hanes.

Un o'r materion a oedd yn fy mhoeni, er enghraifft, oedd yr addysgu yn ardal Taf Elái pan oeddwn yn yr ysgol. Buom yn sôn am Dr William Price, ac wrth gwrs, mae pawb yn gwybod mai dyna'r dyn a amlosgodd ei fab, onid e? Ond yr hyn oedd yn bwysig oedd ei fod yn cynrychioli her a thoriad rhwng cyfraith yn seiliedig ar gyfraith eglwysig yn hytrach na chyfraith gyffredin, am fod amlosgi yn ymosodiad uniongyrchol ar y gred yn yr ailymgnawdoliad, atgyfodi'r corff—roedd yn newid sylfaenol. Ac nid wyf erioed wedi clywed hynny'n cael ei drafod neu rywun yn siarad amdano neu'n ei ddehongli mewn unrhyw ffordd arbennig. Nid wyf wedi clywed unrhyw drafodaeth yn ein hysgolion am bwysigrwydd pobl leol neu bwysigrwydd pobl fel Arthur Horner, pobl fel Will Paynter a arweiniodd Fudiad Cenedlaethol y Gweithwyr Di-waith—ffactor arwyddocaol iawn yng Nghymru.  

Rwy'n byw yn Nhonyrefail yng nghwm Elái. Yng nghwm Taf, wrth gwrs, y digwyddodd un o'r achosion cyfreithiol mawr a ddeilliodd o anghydfod diwydiannol ac a arweiniodd at un o'r prif faterion yn ymwneud â rhyddid pobl i drefnu a arweiniodd at Ddeddf Anghydfodau Masnach 1906. Nid wyf erioed wedi clywed hynny'n cael ei drafod. Eto i gyd, mae'n rhan sylfaenol iawn o'n dealltwriaeth o ddatblygiad prosesau democrataidd mewn gwirionedd. Felly, dyna fy sylwadau ar hynny, oherwydd rwy'n cytuno, mae yna lawer o addysgu da ar hanes Cymru rwy'n siŵr, ond mae bylchau enfawr ynddo hefyd ac mae yna wendid enfawr o ran lleoleiddio'r addysgu, ac yn enwedig addysgu hanes dosbarth, hanes mudiadau, pobl a dosbarth. Dyna'r hyn yr hoffwn ei weld yn cael ei atgyfodi.

Y pwynt a wneuthum yn ystod un o'r sesiynau pwyllgor ar hyn, pwynt sy'n bwysig iawn yn fy marn i, yw mater hyfforddi athrawon a sut y caiff hynny ei addasu a sut y byddwn yn cymryd yr holl safbwyntiau arbennig hyn o ran addysgu hanes lleol a hanes Cymru yn fwy effeithiol. Mae hynny'n ymddangos yn broblem i mi. A hefyd, y diffyg adnoddau sydd ar gael—diffyg deunyddiau penodol sy'n hyrwyddo, sy'n dadansoddi, sy'n sôn am y mudiadau cymdeithasol hyn, sy'n sôn am gydymddibyniaeth a chydweithrediaeth. Gwelwyd un o brif ddatblygiadau cydweithrediaeth yn ardal Ynysybwl, ac arweiniodd at sefydlu mudiad cydweithredol mawr. Felly, mae'r pethau hyn i gyd sy'n sylfaenol bwysig i ni yno.

Felly, yr hyn y buaswn yn ei obeithio, wrth ddatblygu'r cwricwlwm newydd o ran yr addysgu, yw ein bod yn addysgu am Gymru. Nid oes gennyf broblem gyda geiriad y cynnig, ond bod angen i ni fod yn wyliadwrus ynglŷn â'n dehongliad o beth yn union rydym yn sôn amdano, beth y mae'n ei olygu. Ond yr hyn ydyw, yn bwysig iawn rwy'n credu, yw cydnabyddiaeth fod yna ffordd bell i fynd yng Nghymru ac yng ngweddill y DU, ac mewn rhannau o Ewrop a gweddill y byd, ynglŷn ag ymagwedd newydd, fodern a gonest tuag at addysgu hanes.      

16:50

I'd like to thank Siân for bringing this forward today. Understanding and learning the lessons from our history as a nation, as a community and as individuals is hugely valuable, and, as has been said, if we don't know where we've come from, how do we know where we're going? 

Wales is a country with a rich and diverse history, but that doesn't mean that we should just look inward on ourselves. World history is incredibly important and Wales has been a key influencer, whether that's our role in the industrial revolution or Welsh miners fighting in the Spanish civil war. We should utilise this as much as possible to study world events through local Welsh examples. A focus on local history, in particular, can really bring it to life.

Always a favourite with all ages is the exploits of the Roman Empire, and it's a topic that rightly receives a lot of attention in schools. Personally, having a great primary school teacher really brought it to life for me and started my love of history. However, we must take advantage of the historical events and influences that have happened here on our doorstep. A visit to the amphitheatre in Caerleon is an opportunity to walk around the only remaining Roman legion barracks on view anywhere in Europe. Dating back to the first century AD, Caerleon was one of only three permanent fortresses in Roman Britain. We have other roman sites, including Caerwent, Carmarthen and Caernarfon.

Tailoring history education to local areas provides huge scope for pupils to really engage with the curriculum. In the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, privateers were a key part of the UK, developing its status in the world. The infamous Henry Morgan, who was Captain Morgan, was a member of the Morgan family of Tredegar House. Many street names in the area surrounding the estate have connections to Jamaica and his exploits in the Caribbean, but I wonder how many people locally know the significance of these names?  

Newport also holds an important place in our democratic and parliamentary heritage, something we should capitalise on when pupils are studying these topics. Following in the footsteps of the Chartists to the Westgate Hotel enables children to imagine the exact journey taken by John Frost, Zephaniah Williams and the other petitioners in 1839. A trip to the post box on Risca Road, which the suffragette Lady Rhondda tried to blow up in protest, is another example of a tangible place to visit. While there are many people lost to history, these landmarks and routes can tie people to a place and make history far more than a subject in a textbook.

As an old dock town, Newport, after Cardiff, is the second most multicultural community in Wales. It has a proud history, but there are also difficult aspects that should equally be taught in our schools and 2019 marks the centenary of the Newport race riots. The George Street riots, it's said, involved 5,000 people, something that most Newportonians would be unaware of—riots that started in Newport and then spread to Cardiff and throughout other parts of the UK. This year, the historic dock project and the Bigger Picture, linked with Pillgwenlly Primary School, talked about what happened and the strong community bonds that we have today. 

These are just some examples from my part of Wales, and there are plenty more the length and breadth of Wales, and we must learn and share our heritage. History gives us a sense of connection to place, time and community, and teachers need the support and freedom to explore ways of engaging every child with Welsh history. If we don't teach our history, how can we expect them to learn from it? 

Hoffwn ddiolch i Siân am gyflwyno hyn heddiw. Mae deall a dysgu'r gwersi o'n hanes fel cenedl, fel cymuned ac fel unigolion, yn hynod o werthfawr, ac fel y dywedwyd, os nad ydym yn gwybod o ble y daethom, sut y gwyddom i ble rydym yn mynd?  

Mae Cymru'n wlad sydd â hanes cyfoethog ac amrywiol, ond nid yw hynny'n golygu y dylem edrych i mewn ar ein hunain yn unig. Mae hanes y byd yn anhygoel o bwysig ac mae Cymru wedi bod yn ddylanwadwr allweddol, boed hynny yn ein rôl yn y chwyldro diwydiannol neu lowyr Cymru yn ymladd yn rhyfel cartref Sbaen. Fe ddylem ddefnyddio hyn gymaint ag y gallwn er mwyn astudio digwyddiadau'r byd drwy enghreifftiau Cymreig lleol. Gall canolbwyntio ar hanes lleol yn arbennig ei wneud yn fyw iawn.

Mae hynt a helynt yr Ymerodraeth Rufeinig bob amser yn ffefryn gyda phob oedran, ac mae'n bwnc sy'n cael llawer o sylw mewn ysgolion, a hynny'n briodol. Yn bersonol, fe wnaeth athro ysgol gynradd gwych ddod â'r peth yn fyw i mi a chynnau fy hoffter o hanes. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni fanteisio ar y digwyddiadau a'r dylanwadau hanesyddol sydd wedi digwydd yma ar garreg ein drws. Mae ymweliad â'r amffitheatr yng Nghaerllion yn gyfle i gerdded o amgylch yr unig farics lleng Rufeinig sydd ar ôl i'w weld yn unman yn Ewrop. Mae Caerllion yn dyddio'n ôl i'r ganrif gyntaf OC, ac roedd yn un o ddim ond tair caer barhaol yn y Brydain Rufeinig. Mae gennym safleoedd Rhufeinig eraill, gan gynnwys Caer-went, Caerfyrddin a Chaernarfon.

Mae teilwra addysg hanes i ardaloedd lleol yn rhoi cyfle enfawr i ddisgyblion ymgysylltu go iawn â'r cwricwlwm. Yn yr unfed ganrif ar bymtheg a'r ail ganrif ar bymtheg, roedd preifatiriaid yn rhan allweddol o'r DU, yn datblygu ei statws yn y byd. Roedd y Capten Harri Morgan drwgenwog yn aelod o deulu Morgan Tŷ Tredegar. Mae gan lawer o enwau strydoedd yn yr ardal o gwmpas yr ystâd gysylltiadau â Jamaica a'i anturiaethau yn y Caribî, ond tybed faint o bobl leol sy'n gwybod beth yw arwyddocâd yr enwau hyn?  

Mae gan Gasnewydd hefyd le pwysig yn ein treftadaeth ddemocrataidd a seneddol, rhywbeth y dylem wneud y mwyaf ohono pan fydd disgyblion yn astudio'r pynciau hyn. Mae dilyn ôl traed y Siartwyr i Westy'r Westgate yn galluogi plant i ddychmygu'r union daith a wnaeth John Frost, Zephaniah Williams a'r deisebwyr eraill yn 1839. Mae trip i'r blwch post ar ffordd Rhisga y ceisiodd y swffragét, y Fonesig Rhondda, ei ffrwydro mewn protest, yn enghraifft arall o fan diriaethol i ymweld ag ef. Er bod llawer o bobl wedi mynd yn angof, mae'r tirnodau a'r llwybrau hyn yn gallu clymu pobl wrth le a gwneud hanes yn llawer mwy na phwnc mewn gwerslyfr.

Fel hen dref borthladd, Casnewydd, ar ôl Caerdydd, yw ail gymuned fwyaf amlddiwylliannol Cymru. Mae ganddi hanes balch, ond mae yna agweddau anodd hefyd y dylid eu dysgu yn ein hysgolion ac mae 2019 yn nodi canmlwyddiant y terfysgoedd hil yng Nghasnewydd. Dywedir bod 5,000 o bobl wedi cymryd rhan yn nherfysgoedd George Street, rhywbeth na fyddai'r rhan fwyaf o bobl Casnewydd yn ymwybodol ohono—terfysgoedd a ddechreuodd yng Nghasnewydd ac a ymledodd wedyn i Gaerdydd a thrwy rannau eraill o'r DU. Eleni, soniodd prosiect hanes y doc a'r Bigger Picture, mewn cysylltiad ag Ysgol Gynradd Pilgwenlli, am yr hyn a ddigwyddodd a'r cysylltiadau cymunedol cryf sydd gennym heddiw.  

Dim ond rhai enghreifftiau o fy rhan i o Gymru yw'r rhain, ac mae llawer mwy ar gael ar hyd a lled Cymru, a rhaid inni ddysgu a rhannu ein treftadaeth. Mae hanes yn rhoi ymdeimlad o gysylltiad â lle, amser a chymuned i ni, ac mae athrawon angen y gefnogaeth a'r rhyddid i archwilio ffyrdd o ennyn diddordeb pob plentyn yn hanes Cymru. Os na addysgwn ein hanes, sut y gallwn ddisgwyl iddynt ddysgu ohono?  

Y Gweinidog Addysg, Kirsty Williams. 

The Minister for Education, Kirsty Williams.

Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Can I begin by thanking Siân and Suzy for bringing forward this debate today, and allowing us to engage in impressions—pale, I must admit—of those Wynford Vaughan-Thomas and Gwyn Alf Williams Welsh history discussions that many of us will remember from the 1980s and have been referenced so often this afternoon, and the fact that they have clearly demonstrates the impact that that programme especially and those two individuals have had on our own understanding of our history.

At the outset, I can confirm that the Government will support the motion today. However, I will use this opportunity to provide clarification on plans for the new curriculum and to examine the challenges of defining a singular history of Wales that is outlined in the motion. Firstly, Members will be aware that both a Welsh dimension and an international perspective are essential to each of the six areas of learning and experience in the new curriculum. The new curriculum—Vikki, I can give you an absolute assurance—has been designed by the teaching profession for the teaching profession and the children of Wales, and has included those working in our special schools with some of the children with the most profound needs—a curriculum that will be inclusive and accessible—and I'm pleased to say has received a great deal of support from those practitioners in special schools. They believe that this new curriculum gives them even greater opportunities for the children and young people that they work with.

Now, analysing, understanding and questioning one's identity and history as a citizen of Wales, and that relationship to the rest of these islands and, indeed, the world, should not be limited to a history lesson. The innovative theme and principle of 'cynefin' is one that runs throughout each of the draft areas of learning and experience. The 'cynefin' is the place where we feel we belong, where the people and the landscape around us are familiar, and the sights and sounds are reassuringly recognisable. 'Cynefin' is not just a place in a physical or a geographical sense. It is the historic, cultural and social place that has shaped and continues to shape the community in which it inhabits, and from those places, we will expect learners to know and to understand their communities, their nation and the world. So, for example, learners will learn about Robert Recorde in the maths AoLE, the linguistic and the literary history of Wales in both languages will be covered in the languages, literature and communication AoLE, and in science technology, learners will explore how Wales's geography, its resources, its workforce—those that were born here in Wales and those that chose to make their home here in Wales—shape the scientific activity and the technological industry of the country. But, of course, the principle of 'cynefin' means learners will have different starting points of appreciating the histories and the stories of Wales. And I want to—and she's left her seat—I want to emphasise to Delyth that it is indeed histories and stories. There is not one single narrative or national story.

Now, as we have heard, this year is the centenary of the race riots in Cardiff, Barry and Newport. It's a part of our history that has often been overlooked, and I congratulate the Cardiff University students who have recently been tweeting as live updates of those riots. It's an episode that challenges the self-identity that we sometimes have as a community, as a nation, and therefore it is important to any study of Welsh history.

Now, some in this Chamber may know that I have a personal interest in Welsh-American history. It reflects my own family's story, when my grandfather, named after Giraldus Cambrensis, decided to swap the mines of Carmarthenshire for the mines of West Virginia. So, I've noted with interest that S4C is currently reshowing Dr Jerry Hunter's programme on the links between Wales and the American slave trade. Too often, we can be guilty of only recognising the positive contribution of Wales and the Welsh people to North America, through those that signed the declaration of independence to those that founded the institutions of Yale and Brown, and we are rightly proud—we should be rightly proud of those achievements and they are worthy of study—however—

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. A gaf fi ddechrau drwy ddiolch i Siân a Suzy am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon heddiw, a chaniatáu i ni hel atgofion—aneglur, rhaid i mi gyfaddef—am y trafodaethau rhwng Wynford Vaughan-Thomas a Gwyn Alf Williams ar hanes Cymru y bydd llawer ohonom yn eu cofio o'r 1980au ac y cyfeiriwyd atynt mor aml y prynhawn yma, ac mae'r ffaith eu bod wedi cael sylw'n dangos yn glir yr effaith a gafodd y rhaglen honno yn arbennig, a'r ddau unigolyn hynny, ar ein dealltwriaeth ni o'n hanes.

Ar y dechrau, gallaf gadarnhau y bydd y Llywodraeth yn cefnogi'r cynnig heddiw. Fodd bynnag, defnyddiaf y cyfle hwn i egluro cynlluniau ar gyfer y cwricwlwm newydd ac i edrych ar yr heriau o ddiffinio un hanes Cymru a amlinellir yn y cynnig. Yn gyntaf, bydd yr Aelodau'n ymwybodol fod dimensiwn Cymreig a phersbectif rhyngwladol yn hanfodol i bob un o'r chwe maes dysgu a phrofiad yn y cwricwlwm newydd. Mae'r cwricwlwm newydd—Vikki, gallaf roi sicrwydd pendant i chi—wedi'i gynllunio gan y proffesiwn addysgu ar gyfer y proffesiwn addysgu a phlant Cymru, ac mae wedi cynnwys y rhai sy'n gweithio yn ein hysgolion arbennig gyda rhai o'r plant gyda'r anghenion mwyaf difrifol—cwricwlwm a fydd yn gynhwysol ac yn hygyrch—ac rwy'n falch o ddweud ei fod wedi cael llawer iawn o gefnogaeth gan addysgwyr mewn ysgolion arbennig. Credant fod y cwricwlwm newydd hwn yn rhoi mwy fyth o gyfleoedd i'r plant a'r bobl ifanc y maent yn gweithio gyda hwy.

Nawr, ni ddylai dadansoddi, deall a chwestiynu hunaniaeth a hanes rhywun fel dinesydd Cymru, a'r berthynas honno â gweddill yr ynysoedd hyn ac yn wir, â'r byd, fod yn gyfyngedig i wers hanes. Mae thema ac egwyddor arloesol 'cynefin' yn un sy'n rhedeg drwy bob un o'r meysydd dysgu a phrofiad drafft. Y cynefin yw'r man lle rydym yn teimlo ein bod yn perthyn, lle mae'r bobl a'r tirlun o'n cwmpas yn gyfarwydd, a'r golygfeydd a'r synau'n gysurus o gyfarwydd. Nid dim ond lle mewn ystyr ffisegol neu ddaearyddol yw cynefin. Mae'n lle hanesyddol, diwylliannol a chymdeithasol sydd wedi siapio ac sy'n parhau i siapio'r gymuned y mae'n bodoli ynddi, ac o'r mannau hynny, byddwn yn disgwyl i ddysgwyr wybod a deall eu cymunedau, eu cenedl a'r byd. Felly, er enghraifft, bydd dysgwyr yn dysgu am Robert Recorde yn y maes dysgu a phrofiad mathemateg, bydd iaith a hanes llenyddol Cymru yn y ddwy iaith yn cael sylw yn y maes dysgu a phrofiad ieithoedd, llenyddiaeth a chyfathrebu, ac mewn technoleg gwyddoniaeth, bydd dysgwyr yn archwilio sut y mae daearyddiaeth Cymru, ei hadnoddau, ei gweithlu—y rhai a aned yma yng Nghymru a'r rhai a ddewisodd wneud eu cartref yma yng Nghymru—yn llywio gweithgarwch gwyddonol a diwydiant technolegol y wlad. Ond wrth gwrs, mae egwyddor cynefin yn golygu y bydd gan ddysgwyr fannau cychwyn gwahanol ar gyfer gwerthfawrogi hanesion a straeon Cymru. Ac rwyf am—ac mae hi wedi gadael ei sedd—rwyf am bwysleisio i Delyth mai hanesion a straeon yw'r rhain yn wir, nid un naratif nac un stori genedlaethol.

Nawr, fel y clywsom, eleni mae'n gan mlynedd ers y terfysgoedd hil yng Nghaerdydd, y Barri a Chasnewydd. Mae'n rhan o'n hanes sydd wedi cael ei diystyru'n aml, ac rwy'n llongyfarch myfyrwyr Prifysgol Caerdydd sydd wedi bod yn trydar ar ffurf newyddion byw o'r terfysgoedd hynny. Mae'n bennod sy'n herio'r hunaniaeth sydd gennym weithiau fel cymuned, fel cenedl, ac felly mae'n bwysig i unrhyw astudiaeth o hanes Cymru.

Nawr, efallai fod rhai yn y Siambr hon yn gwybod bod gennyf ddiddordeb personol yn hanes Cymru-America. Mae'n adlewyrchu stori fy nheulu fy hun, pan benderfynodd fy nhad-cu, a enwyd ar ôl Gerallt Gymro, gyfnewid pyllau glo sir Gaerfyrddin am rai Gorllewin Virginia. Felly, rwyf wedi nodi gyda diddordeb fod S4C ar hyn o bryd yn ailddangos rhaglen Dr Jerry Hunter ar y cysylltiadau rhwng Cymru a'r fasnach gaethweision yn America. Yn rhy aml, gallwn fod yn euog o gydnabod cyfraniad cadarnhaol Cymru a phobl Cymru i Ogledd America drwy'r rheini a lofnododd y datganiad o annibyniaeth yn unig, a'r rhai a sefydlodd sefydliadau Yale a Brown, ac rydym yn falch—fe ddylem fod yn falch o'r cyflawniadau hynny ac maent yn werth eu hastudio—ond—

16:55

Will the Minister give way?

A wnaiff y Gweinidog ildio?

You make a really important point, and it's really struck me, travelling around America, and particularly the south, how many Americans of African heritage have Welsh surnames—Williams, Evans, Jones, Davies. It really is quite chilling to think of the implications of that. 

Rydych yn gwneud pwynt pwysig iawn, ac fe wnaeth fy nharo, wrth deithio o amgylch America, ac yn enwedig y de, faint o Americanwyr o dras Affricanaidd sydd â chyfenwau Cymreig—Williams, Evans, Jones, Davies. Mae'n wirioneddol frawychus meddwl am oblygiadau hynny.

Well, the Member has anticipated perfectly—

Wel, mae'r Aelod wedi rhagweld yn berffaith—

Oh, I'm sorry. [Laughter.]

O, mae'n ddrwg gennyf. [Chwerthin.]

—the next part of my contribution. We cannot—we cannot, David, ignore that many Welsh people were involved in owning and bringing slaves to America, and, as David has rightly said, we only have to look at the huge African-American populations with names such as Davies, Jones and Williams that reflect that history, whilst also recognising that the Welsh-American population also played a big part in the abolitionist movement and in the change of attitude and shift before the Civil War. Now, these examples, both on our doorstep here in the old docks area, and across the Atlantic, are as essential to a history of Wales as the Acts of Union, the Merthyr Rising, the drowning of Tryweryn, or the clearance of Epynt. And, of course, we mustn't forget that major UK or global events, such as those two world wars or the development of the welfare state and the national health service, are also part of the history of Wales.

Studying the history and histories of Wales is important to the fulfilment of the purposes of the new curriculum. To be an engaged, informed and ethical citizen, learners will make sense of their identity and how our history, cultures and geography shape it. However, I will make it clear that the addition of statutory requirements to the curriculum would be a direct contradiction to the structure and the framework that is being produced at a national level. However, each area of learning and experience is explicit in identifying a Welsh dimension as well as that important principle of cynefin. Therefore, in supporting this motion, I am recommitting to the fact that the histories and stories of Wales will be a core aspect of each and every area of learning and experience across our new curriculum. Diolch yn fawr.

—beth yw rhan nesaf fy nghyfraniad. Ni allwn—ni allwn, David, anwybyddu'r ffaith bod llawer o Gymry'n gysylltiedig â bod yn berchen ar, a chludo caethweision i America, ac fel y dywedodd David yn gywir, nid oes ond rhaid inni edrych ar y poblogaethau mawr Affricanaidd-Americanaidd gydag enwau fel Davies, Jones a Williams sy'n adlewyrchu'r hanes hwnnw, gan gydnabod hefyd fod y boblogaeth o Americanwyr Cymreig hefyd wedi chwarae rhan fawr ym mudiad y diddymwyr a'r newid agwedd cyn y Rhyfel Cartref. Nawr, mae'r enghreifftiau hyn, ar garreg ein drws yma yn hen ardal y dociau ac ar draws yr Iwerydd, yr un mor hanfodol i hanes Cymru â'r Deddfau uno, Terfysg Merthyr, boddi Tryweryn, neu glirio Epynt. Ac wrth gwrs, ni ddylem anghofio bod digwyddiadau mawr y DU neu'n fyd-eang, fel y ddau ryfel byd neu ddatblygiad y wladwriaeth les a'r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, hefyd yn rhan o hanes Cymru.

Mae astudio hanes a hanesion Cymru yn bwysig er mwyn cyflawni dibenion y cwricwlwm newydd. I fod yn ddinasyddion gwybodus a moesegol sy'n cymryd rhan, bydd dysgwyr yn gwneud synnwyr o'u hunaniaeth a sut y mae ein hanes, ein diwylliannau a'n daearyddiaeth yn ei siapio. Fodd bynnag, rwyf am ei gwneud yn glir y byddai ychwanegu gofynion statudol at y cwricwlwm yn gwbl groes i'r strwythur a'r fframwaith sy'n cael ei gynhyrchu ar lefel genedlaethol. Fodd bynnag, mae pob maes dysgu a phrofiad yn nodi dimensiwn Cymreig amlwg yn ogystal ag egwyddor bwysig cynefin. Felly, wrth gefnogi'r cynnig hwn, rwy'n ailymrwymo i'r ffaith y bydd hanesion a straeon Cymru yn agwedd graidd ar bob maes dysgu a phrofiad ar draws ein cwricwlwm newydd. Diolch yn fawr.

17:00

Suzy Davies i ymateb i'r ddadl.

Suzy Davies to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Llywydd, a diolch, pawb, hefyd.

Thank you, Llywydd, and thank you to everyone.

I'm really—. In six minutes, there's no way I'm going to be able to give everybody good justice in this one. But I'm really pleased that this was accepted for debate today. I can't think of the last time I enjoyed a debate as much, as well as actually learning from it. I suppose the question should be why we're having it at all, and, actually, it struck me, having followed some of the Twitter coverage of what we've been doing today, that one commentator said, 'It's unbelievable that we're debating whether Welsh history—or how it—should be taught in our schools. Without self-awareness, we are stateless and rootless and ignorant of our own country, how it has been shaped, the significance and the contributions the people from Wales have made, and we will be left with the impression of irrelevance and nothingness.'

Now, I think that might possibly be overstating it—yma o hyd and all the rest of it; we are still here—but there are some serious questions about why we are where we are, and I suppose it is worth just reminding the Chamber here that this actually goes back to—1952 we were talking about this, and the Ministry of Education then, way back in pre-devolved times, had already noted that the history of Wales is relegated to the background in what was being taught then. By the time it got to the Education Reform Act 1988—this is some time on—there was still an understanding that, in Wales, we needed a distinctly Welsh curriculum for schools. So, you can imagine, by the time we got to 1995, and we're just before devolution now—both the English and Welsh language cultures in the country need to be exhibited in the curriculum as it was taught then, and the feeling was that it wasn't being. And then, by 2013, which is well after devolution and well into the new curriculum then, we found ourselves in a position where—unfortunately, Vikki, you may be the paragon in this, because only 10 per cent to 15 per cent of history GCSEs had content in them about Wales, and I really wish that the rest of Wales, and the children in the rest of Wales, had the experience that your children have had. [Interruption.] If you give me extra time. Thank you.

Rwy'n wirionedddol—. Mewn chwe munud, nid oes unrhyw ffordd y gallaf wneud cyfiawnder â phawb ar hyn. Ond rwy'n falch iawn fod hyn wedi'i dderbyn ar gyfer dadl heddiw. Ni allaf feddwl am y tro diwethaf i mi fwynhau dadl cymaint, yn ogystal â dysgu oddi wrthi. Mae'n debyg mai'r cwestiwn yw pam ein bod yn ei chael o gwbl, ac mewn gwirionedd, fe'm trawodd, ar ôl dilyn rhywfaint o ddarllediadau Twitter o'r hyn y buom yn ei wneud heddiw, fod un sylwebydd wedi dweud, 'Mae'n anghredadwy ein bod yn trafod a ddylai—neu sut y dylai—hanes Cymru gael ei addysgu yn ein hysgolion. Heb hunanymwybyddiaeth, rydym heb wladwriaeth a heb wreiddiau ac yn anwybodus ynghylch ein gwlad ein hunain, sut y cafodd ei siapio, yr arwyddocâd a'r cyfraniadau y mae pobl o Gymru wedi eu gwneud, a byddwn yn cael ein gadael gyda'r argraff o amherthnasedd a diddymrwydd.'

Nawr, rwy'n meddwl efallai fod hynny'n gor-ddweud pethau—yma o hyd ac ati; rydym yma o hyd—ond mae rhai cwestiynau difrifol yn codi ynglŷn â pham rydym lle rydym, ac mae'n debyg ei bod yn werth atgoffa'r Siambr fod hyn yn mynd yn ôl mewn gwirionedd i—roeddem yn siarad am hyn yn 1952, ac roedd y Weinyddiaeth Addysg bryd hynny, ymhell cyn datganoli, eisoes wedi nodi bod hanes Cymru yn cael ei wthio i'r cefndir yn yr hyn a oedd yn cael ei ddysgu bryd hynny. Erbyn Deddf Diwygio Addysg 1988—mae hyn gryn dipyn wedyn—roedd yna ddealltwriaeth o hyd fod angen cwricwlwm Cymreig penodol i ysgolion yng Nghymru. Felly, gallwch ddychmygu, erbyn inni gyrraedd 1995, heb fod yn hir cyn datganoli—mae angen cynnwys diwylliannau Cymraeg a Saesneg yn y wlad yn y cwricwlwm fel y'i dysgid bryd hynny, a'r teimlad oedd nad oedd hynny'n digwydd. Ac erbyn 2013, ymhell ar ôl datganoli ac ymhell i mewn i'r cwricwlwm newydd ar y pryd, roeddem mewn sefyllfa lle—gwaetha'r modd, Vikki, efallai mai chi yw'r paragon yn hyn o beth, gan mai 10 y cant i 15 y cant yn unig o gyrsiau TGAU hanes oedd yn cynnwys deunydd ar Gymru, a hoffwn yn fawr iawn pe bai gweddill Cymru, a'r plant yng ngweddill Cymru, wedi cael y profiad y mae eich plant chi wedi'i gael. [Torri ar draws.] Os rhowch amser ychwanegol i mi. Diolch.

[Inaudible.]—when every single history GCSE that's put out by the WJEC does have a Welsh history dimension to it. 

[Anghlywadwy.]—pan fo pob TGAU hanes unigol sy'n cael ei ddarparu gan CBAC yn cynnwys dimensiwn hanes Cymru.

Okay. Well, the research for that has come from the work of Dr Elin Jones, who did the preliminary work for the Cwricwlwm Cymreig back in 2013 and 2015, and there's much more recent evidence that has come from Martin Johnes, I think, from Swansea University, which shows that, while that is available to teachers to teach, the huge majority of them don't pick up on those modules. And the huge majority—and it is a huge majority; I'm sorry, I don't have the details with me, but I'm sure we can get it to you—is that—. It's the Nazis and America that are taking up the majority of the curriculum time. And, as the Minister said, there are elements in that where, actually, the connection with Wales and how that helps us look at ourselves is really important, but I'm not convinced, based on the little survey I've done today, that that is coming through at all. Because despite all this—and this is in no way scientific, but I've been speaking to people younger than me today on the floor here in Tŷ Hywel, and of one, two, three, four, 10 people I spoke to who were younger than me, two of them didn't recall anything at all apart from learning about the Welsh not in primary school—a lot of them remembered that—some remembered being taught about the Rebecca Riots, some about Chartists—it depended where they were from in Wales—but, actually, the majority of them couldn't remember anything they'd learnt in school about Welsh history. And that's why we're having this debate, because while, as you know, I have some sympathy for—well, more than sympathy, some hope for—the new curriculum, and everything you've said today, Minister, is true, it's going to be open to teachers across Wales to incorporate Welsh history to a greater or lesser degree, as much as they want, the wording that's in there at the moment—and I've read the AOLE guidance, such as it is at the moment; I appreciate it could develop—there's nothing in there that this needs to happen for those reasons, so that we're not left with the impressions of irrelevance and nothingness.

I haven't got much—. I just want to finish with a point later on, but I want to deal with some contributions first. Siân, you kicked off saying that hanes, there's tân yn y bol over this—yes, there is at the moment, but, if we don't do something about this now, it's just going to go out, because, as Delyth was saying, you know, 'cofiwch', well, if we're not taught anything, what on earth are we going to cofio? And it does relate to the question of hunaniaeth—what's missing from people's knowledge we can't remember. I think it struck me that more people said they'd learnt more from the Huw Edwards programme about the history of Wales fairly recently than they had from their own school curricula.

But where I'm going to agree with the Minister, and actually other speakers here, is that we shouldn't overprescribe the content. When Mark Isherwood made his contribution, I thought that was just as important as having 'Cofiwch Dryweryn' as something we should consider doing. The response to this debate should be that we should have as much about Welsh history on the curriculum as possible. There is no one history in Wales—I think you might have been the person who said that, Minister. Who is to say whether the dissolution of the monasteries has had more of an impact or less of an impact than the drowning of Capel Celyn? I don't know. That's the point of, in this curriculum, having the opportunity to discuss it, but the content has to be there to discuss, and I think that's what is behind this debate—well, it certainly is for me.

The one question I did have about it is, when we're talking about Welsh history, for me, that must include British history—Welsh, British and international—because Wales and Britain is, again, another piece of fertile territory in this curriculum, that we can talk about what Welsh identity means. And, just to respond to something that Mick Antoniw said—yes, you're quite right about local heroes, but I actually don't have a problem with talking about Nelson and Wellington, even though they don't sound particularly Welsh. They lead to a discussion about why we still have a monarchy and why we still have a monarchy when we're surrounded by Republics. And the question then would be: why do so many people in Wales support the monarchy? You can see where I'm coming from.

There's no way I can cover all this, I'm really sorry. That whole idea of experiencing, touching history, which Alun Davies made, and was followed up by Jayne Bryant—absolutely. When I saw the Acts of Union—which must be poison to the people at the other end of this Chamber—they really made me excited, because they, for the first time, showed me that was the piece of paper that allowed the Welsh into Parliament, and that was something that was really important for me, from a historical point of view. So, again—[Interruption.] We didn't have Welsh people there—[Interruption.] There we are; see, we are doing precisely what the national curriculum should do, provided that the Minister accepts this motion, which you have done.

And, if you'll allow me this very final point, this is fantastic, this debate, but, unless teachers have the resources to teach this, all these ambitions for the cynefin to be transported throughout the curriculum will come to naught, and there is still a concern for me that the teachers we have in the system at the moment, if they don't have resources, if they don't know how to do what you want them to do, they will still be teaching the same stuff and crowbarring some of this ambition into it. And that'll be a failure, both of aspiration and the curriculum itself. If we're still talking about Nazis and America in 10 years' time, without proper context, then I think it'll be a disappointment for us all.

Iawn. Wel, mae'r ymchwil ar gyfer hynny wedi dod o waith Dr Elin Jones, a wnaeth y gwaith rhagarweiniol ar gyfer y Cwricwlwm Cymreig yn ôl yn 2013 a 2015, ac mae tystiolaeth lawer mwy diweddar wedi dod gan Martin Johnes, rwy'n credu, o Brifysgol Abertawe, sy'n dangos, er bod hynny ar gael i athrawon ei addysgu, nid yw'r mwyafrif helaeth ohonynt yn gwneud defnydd o'r modiwlau hynny. A'r mwyafrif enfawr—ac mae'n fwyafrif enfawr; mae'n ddrwg gennyf, nid yw'r manylion gyda mi, ond rwy'n siŵr y gallwn eu cael i chi—yw fod—. Mae'r Natsïaid ac America yn mynd â'r rhan fwyaf o amser y cwricwlwm. Ac fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog, mae yna elfennau yn hynny lle mae'r cysylltiad â Chymru a sut y mae hynny'n ein helpu i edrych arnom ein hunain yn bwysig iawn mewn gwirionedd, ond nid wyf wedi fy argyhoeddi, ar sail yr arolwg bach a wneuthum heddiw, fod hynny'n dod trwodd o gwbl. Oherwydd er hyn i gyd—ac nid yw hyn yn wyddonol o gwbl, ond bûm yn siarad â phobl iau na fi heddiw ar y llawr yma yn Nhŷ Hywel, ac o'r un, dau, tri, pedwar, 10 o bobl y siaradais â hwy a oedd yn iau na fi, nid oedd dau ohonynt yn cofio unrhyw beth o gwbl heblaw dysgu am y 'Welsh not' yn yr ysgol gynradd—roedd llawer ohonynt yn cofio hynny—roedd rhai'n cofio cael eu dysgu am derfysg Rebecca, rhai am y Siartwyr—roedd yn dibynnu o ble roeddent yn dod yng Nghymru—ond mewn gwirionedd, ni allai'r rhan fwyaf ohonynt gofio dim roeddent wedi'i ddysgu yn yr ysgol am hanes Cymru. A dyna pam rydym yn cael y ddadl hon, oherwydd, fel y gwyddoch, mae gennyf rywfaint o gydymdeimlad â—wel, mwy na chydymdeimlad, rhyw obaith o—y cwricwlwm newydd, ac mae popeth rydych wedi'i ddweud heddiw, Weinidog, yn wir, mae'n mynd i fod yn agored i athrawon ledled Cymru ymgorffori hanes Cymru i raddau mwy neu lai, cymaint ag y dymunant, y geiriad sydd ynddo ar hyn o bryd—ac rwyf wedi darllen yr arweiniad ar y maes dysgu a phrofiad, fel y mae ar hyn o bryd; rwy'n deall y gallai ddatblygu—nid oes dim ynddo sy'n dweud bod angen i hyn ddigwydd am y rhesymau hynny, fel nad ydym yn cael ein gadael gyda'r argraffiadau o amherthnasedd a diddymrwydd.

Nid oes gennyf lawer—. Hoffwn orffen gyda phwynt yn nes ymlaen, ond rwyf am ymdrin â rhai cyfraniadau yn gyntaf. Siân, fe wnaethoch chi ddechrau drwy ddweud am hanes, fod yna dân yn y bol ynglŷn â hyn—oes, mae hynny'n wir ar hyn o bryd, ond os na wnawn rywbeth am hyn yn awr, mae'n mynd i fynd allan, oherwydd, fel roedd Delyth yn dweud, wyddoch chi, 'cofiwch', wel, os nad ydym dysgu unrhyw beth, beth ar y ddaear rydym ni'n mynd i'w gofio? Ac mae'n ymwneud â chwestiwn hunaniaeth—yr hyn sydd ar goll o wybodaeth pobl na allwn ei gofio. Rwy'n meddwl ei fod wedi fy nharo fod mwy o bobl wedi dweud eu bod wedi dysgu mwy o raglen Huw Edwards am hanes Cymru yn weddol ddiweddar nag a wnaethant o'u cwricwla ysgol eu hunain.

Ond lle rwy'n mynd i gytuno gyda'r Gweinidog, a siaradwyr eraill yma mewn gwirionedd, yw na ddylem or-bennu'r cynnwys. Pan wnaeth Mark Isherwood ei gyfraniad, roeddwn yn meddwl bod hynny yr un mor bwysig â chael 'Cofiwch Dryweryn' fel rhywbeth y dylem ystyried ei wneud. Yr ymateb i'r ddadl hon yw y dylem gael cymaint â phosibl am hanes Cymru ar y cwricwlwm. Nid un hanes a geir yng Nghymru—credaf mai chi efallai oedd y person a ddywedodd hynny, Weinidog. Pwy sydd i ddweud bod diddymu'r mynachlogydd wedi cael mwy o effaith neu lai o effaith na boddi Capel Celyn? Nid wyf yn gwybod. Dyna bwynt cael cyfle i'w drafod yn y cwricwlwm hwn, ond rhaid i'r cynnwys fod yno i'w drafod, a chredaf mai dyna sydd y tu ôl i'r ddadl hon—wel, mae hynny'n wir i mi yn sicr.

Yr un cwestiwn a oedd gennyf amdano yw, pan fyddwn yn sôn am hanes Cymru, i mi, rhaid i hynny gynnwys hanes Prydain—Cymreig, Prydeinig a rhyngwladol—gan fod Cymru a Phrydain, unwaith eto, yn ddarn arall o dir ffrwythlon yn y cwricwlwm hwn, ein bod yn gallu siarad am yr hyn y mae hunaniaeth Cymru yn ei olygu. Ac i ymateb i rywbeth a ddywedodd Mick Antoniw—rydych chi'n llygad eich lle am arwyr lleol, ond mewn gwirionedd nid oes gennyf broblem gyda siarad am Nelson a Wellington, er nad ydynt yn swnio'n arbennig o Gymreig. Maent yn arwain at drafodaeth ynglŷn â pham fod gennym frenhiniaeth o hyd, a pham fod gennym frenhiniaeth o hyd a ninnau wedi ein hamgylchynu gan Weriniaethau. A'r cwestiwn wedyn fyddai: pam fod cymaint o bobl yng Nghymru yn cefnogi'r frenhiniaeth? Gallwch weld o ble rwy'n dod.

Nid oes ffordd y gallaf ymdrin â hyn i gyd, mae'n ddrwg iawn gennyf. Roedd yr holl syniad o brofi hanes, cyffwrdd â hanes, y soniodd Alun Davies amdano, a'i ddilyn gan Jayne Bryant—yn hollol. Pan welais y Deddfau Uno—ac mae'n rhaid eu bod yn wenwyn i'r bobl ym mhen arall y Siambr hon—roeddent yn fy nghyffroi'n fawr, oherwydd, am y tro cyntaf, roeddent yn dangos i mi mai dyna'r darn o bapur a oedd yn caniatáu i'r Cymry fynd i'r Senedd, ac roedd hynny'n rhywbeth a oedd yn wirioneddol bwysig i mi, o safbwynt hanesyddol. Felly, unwaith eto—[Torri ar draws.] Nid oedd gennym Gymry yno—[Torri ar draws.] Dyna ni; edrychwch, rydym yn gwneud yn union beth y dylai'r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol ei wneud, cyhyd â bod y Gweinidog yn derbyn y cynnig hwn, ac rydych wedi gwneud hynny.

Ac os caniatewch i mi wneud y pwynt olaf hwn, mae hyn yn wych, y ddadl hon, ond oni fydd gan athrawon adnoddau i addysgu hyn, ni ddaw dim o'r holl uchelgeisiau hyn ar gyfer trosglwyddo'r cynefin trwy'r cwricwlwm cyfan, ac mae'n dal i fod yn destun pryder i mi, os nad oes adnoddau gan yr athrawon sydd gennym yn y system ar hyn o bryd, os nad ydynt yn gwybod sut i wneud yr hyn rydych am iddynt ei wneud, byddant yn dal i ddysgu'r un pethau ac yn gwthio rhywfaint o'r uchelgais hwn i mewn ato wedyn. A bydd hynny'n fethiant, o ran dyhead ac o ran y cwricwlwm ei hun. Os ydym yn dal i sôn am Natsïaid ac America ymhen 10 mlynedd, heb gyd-destun priodol, rwy'n credu y bydd yn siom i bawb ohonom.

17:05

Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

17:10

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

7. Dadl ar Ddeiseb P-05-869: Datgan Argyfwng Hinsawdd a gosod targedau di-garbon ym mhob polisi
7. Debate on Petition P-05-869: Declare a Climate Emergency and fit all policies with zero-carbon targets

Sy'n dod â ni at y ddadl ar ddeiseb ar ddatgan argyfwng hinsawdd a gosod targedau di-garbon ym mhob polisi. Dwi'n galw ar Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Deisebau i wneud y cynnig—Janet Finch-Saunders.

Which brings us to the debate on the petition on declaring a climate emergency and fitting all policies with zero-carbon targets. I call on the Chair of the Petitions Committee to move the motion—Janet Finch-Saunders.

Cynnig NDM7076 Janet Finch-Saunders

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

Yn nodi’r ddeiseb ‘P-05-869 Datgan Argyfwng Hinsawdd a gosod targedau di-garbon ym mhob polisi’ a gasglodd 6,148 o lofnodion.

Motion NDM7076 Janet Finch-Saunders

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the petition ‘P-05-869 Declare a Climate Emergency and fit all policies with zero-carbon targets’ which received 6,148 signatures.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. May I begin by expressing thanks, on behalf of the Petitions Committee, for the opportunity to open this debate today? The petition 'Declare a Climate Emergency and fit all policies with zero-carbon targets' was submitted by Matthew Misiak on behalf of the Extinction Rebellion campaign. This petition attracted no less than 6,148 signatures, and the Petitions Committee is bringing it forward today under the process whereby we consider requesting debates on petitions with more than 5,000 signatures, and it would be remiss of us not to thank the Business Committee members for their move to see this tabled for debate.

It is clear that no Parliament or Government can ignore the urgency of the challenge posed by climate change. Neither can we, as politicians and policy makers, fail to recognise the level of public concern in relation to this and other environmental issues such as biodiversity, plastic pollution and air quality. All of these issues are frequently raised, both in this Chamber and through the petitions process, and all are captured by this particular petition. Members will also be well aware of the wider protest and campaigning that has been orchestrated by the Extinction Rebellion movement, and which forms the backdrop to this petition.

The Petitions Committee has noted, of course, that the Welsh Government has indeed declared a climate emergency during the time since this petition was drafted. In a statement issued on 30 April 2019, the Minister for environment expressed her hope that the declaration

'can help to trigger a wave of action at home and internationally.'

The statement also recognised that tackling climate change

'requires collective action and the government has a central role to making that collective action possible.'

Now, the petitioners describe this as 'an important step' and have congratulated the Welsh Government on being among the first Governments in the world to take this action. A number of local authorities, towns and cities across Wales have also made similar declarations, and I'm thrilled that my own local authority has done so also. So, it is apparent there is increasing recognition of the role that all parts of society must play in responding to a challenge on the scale of climate change.

However, there is no universally agreed definition of what declaring a climate emergency should mean in practice, and what action should be taken as a result. Therefore, I hope that this debate will assist in shining a light on the scale of that challenge, and provide additional clarity on the practical changes that will arise as a result of the Welsh Government’s own climate emergency declaration.

Indeed, whilst the Petitions Committee wholeheartedly supports the Welsh Government in taking this step, we also believe that the actions or changes that follow are more important than the declaration itself. Practical change is what is required to ensure that this amounts to much more than a symbolic measure. Beyond the headline declaration of a climate emergency, the petition also proposes a number of actions that the petitioners believe should be taken by the Welsh Government. I will now move on to briefly outline these in turn.

The petition calls on the Welsh Government to ensure that all its policies are consistent with the intention of averting further climate change and ecological collapse. The petitioners want to see detailed action plans produced, with time frames for progress towards making Wales a carbon-neutral country. They highlight the well-being of future generations Act as a good example of Wales leading the way in developing progressive policy, but argue too that, on its own, this Act does not motivate Government, as well as the public and private sectors, to act in accordance with the urgency of the situation. The petitioners press the Welsh Government to make further investments in the development of the green economy, and to stress the opportunity for Wales to be a leader in green technologies.

Moving on, the petition specifically calls on the Welsh Government to enact legally binding policy measures to reduce carbon emissions to net zero, not by 2050 but by 2025. It goes without saying that this is an extremely demanding call. Welsh legislation currently contains a target to reduce emissions by 80 per cent by 2050, with interim targets for the decades leading up to this. In May, a report by the Committee on Climate Change recommended targeting a 95 per cent reduction by 2050. This would form part of an intention to reduce UK greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2050. As Members know, the Welsh Government formally accepted this recommendation last week, and will be bringing forward regulations to update the target in legislation. I should note, however, that the 2050 deadline has been described as 'woefully inadequate' by the petitioners. The petition states—and the Extinction Rebellion campaign has been vocal about—the need to take this action by 2025. I am sure that the pace of the response to the challenges of climate change will be a topic for further debate this afternoon.

Finally, the petition calls for a citizens assembly to be established to oversee the changes required. The petitioners argue that Welsh citizens should be able to help develop and to scrutinise the policies that will actually underpin the degree of change that is required. They believe that such an approach will minimise conflicts of interest, and support politicians to make decisions for the long-term good of all. Again, this proposal is something that Members may wish to consider during their contributions this afternoon.

In conclusion, the Petitions Committee recognises the important steps already taken by the Welsh Government, not least through its climate emergency declaration and the commitments that the Minister has made. Nevertheless, we all need to continue to apply strong scrutiny to the concrete actions that must be taken, and we must all work together to develop effective solutions that will make these challenging commitments into a reality. I therefore look forward to listening to the rest of this afternoon’s debate. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch, Lywydd. A gaf fi ddechrau drwy fynegi diolch, ar ran y Pwyllgor Deisebau, am y cyfle i agor y ddadl hon heddiw? Cyflwynodd Matthew Misiak y ddeiseb 'Datgan Argyfwng Hinsawdd a gosod targedau di-garbon ym mhob polisi' ar ran ymgyrch Extinction Rebellion. Denodd y ddeiseb hon 6,148 o lofnodion, ac mae'r Pwyllgor Deisebau yn ei chyflwyno heddiw o dan y broses lle rydym yn ystyried gofyn am ddadleuon ar ddeisebau sydd â mwy na 5,000 o lofnodion, a byddem ar fai pe na baem yn diolch i aelodau'r Pwyllgor Busnes am eu penderfyniad i weld y ddeiseb hon yn cael ei chyflwyno ar gyfer dadl.

Mae'n amlwg na all yr un Senedd na Llywodraeth anwybyddu brys yr her sy'n codi yn sgil newid hinsawdd. Ni allwn ni ychwaith fel gwleidyddion a llunwyr polisïau fethu cydnabod lefel pryder y cyhoedd yng nghyswllt hyn a materion amgylcheddol eraill fel bioamrywiaeth, llygredd plastig ac ansawdd aer. Caiff pob un o'r materion hyn eu codi'n fynych yn y Siambr hon a thrwy'r broses ddeisebu, a chaiff pob mater ei gynnwys yn y ddeiseb benodol hon. Bydd yr Aelodau hefyd yn ymwybodol iawn o'r brotest a'r ymgyrchu ehangach a drefnwyd gan fudiad Extinction Rebellion, ac sy'n ffurfio cefndir i'r ddeiseb hon.

Mae'r Pwyllgor Deisebau wedi nodi, wrth gwrs, fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi datgan argyfwng hinsawdd yn ystod y cyfnod ers drafftio'r ddeiseb hon. Mewn datganiad a gyhoeddwyd ar 30 Ebrill 2019, mynegodd Gweinidog yr amgylchedd ei gobaith y byddai'r datganiad yn

'helpu i sbarduno ton o weithredu yma ac yn rhyngwladol.'

Roedd y datganiad hefyd yn cydnabod bod mynd i'r afael â newid hinsawdd yn galw am

'weithredu ar y cyd, ac mae gan y Llywodraeth ran ganolog i'w chwarae yn hyn o beth.'

Nawr, mae'r deisebwyr yn disgrifio hwn fel cam pwysig ac maent wedi llongyfarch Llywodraeth Cymru am fod ymhlith y Llywodraethau cyntaf yn y byd i gymryd y camau hyn. Mae nifer o awdurdodau lleol, trefi a dinasoedd ar draws Cymru wedi gwneud datganiadau tebyg hefyd, ac rwyf wrth fy modd fod fy awdurdod lleol fy hun wedi gwneud hynny. Felly, mae'n amlwg fod yna gydnabyddiaeth gynyddol o'r rôl sy'n rhaid i bob rhan o gymdeithas ei chwarae wrth ymateb i her ar raddfa newid hinsawdd.

Fodd bynnag, ni cheir unrhyw ddiffiniad y cytunir arno'n gyffredinol o'r hyn y dylai datgan argyfwng hinsawdd ei olygu yn ymarferol, a pha gamau y dylid eu cymryd o ganlyniad i hynny. Felly, gobeithiaf y bydd y ddadl hon yn helpu i daflu goleuni ar faint yr her honno, ac yn rhoi mwy o eglurder ynglŷn â'r newidiadau ymarferol a fydd yn codi o ganlyniad i ddatganiad argyfwng Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun ar yr hinsawdd.

Yn wir, er bod y Pwyllgor Deisebau yn llwyr gefnogi Llywodraeth Cymru wrth iddi gymryd y cam hwn, credwn hefyd fod y camau gweithredu neu'r newidiadau sy'n dilyn yn bwysicach na'r datganiad ei hun. Newid ymarferol yw'r hyn sydd ei angen i sicrhau bod hyn yn llawer mwy na cham symbolaidd yn unig. Y tu hwnt i brif ddatganiad o argyfwng hinsawdd, mae'r ddeiseb hefyd yn argymell nifer o gamau y mae'r deisebwyr yn credu y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru eu cymryd. Symudaf ymlaen yn awr i roi amlinelliad bras o'r rhain yn eu tro.

Mae'r ddeiseb yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod ei holl bolisïau'n gyson â'r bwriad o osgoi rhagor o newid hinsawdd a chwalfa ecolegol. Mae'r deisebwyr am weld cynlluniau gweithredu manwl yn cael eu cynhyrchu, gydag amserlenni ar gyfer gwneud cynnydd tuag at wneud Cymru yn wlad garbon niwtral. Maent yn amlygu Deddf llesiant cenedlaethau'r dyfodol fel enghraifft dda o Gymru'n arwain ar ddatblygu polisi blaengar, ond yn dadlau hefyd nad yw'r Ddeddf hon ar ei phen ei hun yn symbylu'r Llywodraeth, yn ogystal â'r sectorau cyhoeddus a phreifat, i weithredu'n unol â'r brys y mae'r sefyllfa yn galw amdano. Mae'r deisebwyr yn pwyso ar Lywodraeth Cymru i wneud buddsoddiadau pellach yn natblygiad yr economi werdd, a phwysleisio'r cyfle i Gymru fod yn arweinydd ym maes technolegau gwyrdd.

Gan symud ymlaen, mae'r ddeiseb yn galw'n benodol ar Lywodraeth Cymru i roi mesurau polisi sy'n rhwymo mewn cyfraith mewn grym i leihau allyriadau carbon i sero net, nid erbyn 2050 ond erbyn 2025. Afraid dweud bod hon yn alwad hynod o heriol. Mae deddfwriaeth Cymru ar hyn o bryd yn cynnwys targed i leihau allyriadau 80 y cant erbyn 2050, gyda thargedau interim ar gyfer y degawdau sy'n arwain at hynny. Ym mis Mai, argymhellodd adroddiad gan y Pwyllgor ar Newid Hinsawdd y dylid targedu gostyngiad o 95 y cant erbyn 2050. Byddai hyn yn ffurfio rhan o fwriad i leihau allyriadau nwyon tŷ gwydr y DU i sero net erbyn 2050. Fel y gŵyr yr Aelodau, derbyniodd Llywodraeth Cymru yr argymhelliad hwn yn ffurfiol yr wythnos diwethaf, a bydd yn cyflwyno rheoliadau i ddiweddaru'r targed mewn deddfwriaeth. Fodd bynnag, dylwn nodi bod y deisebwyr wedi disgrifio terfyn amser 2050 fel un truenus o annigonol. Mae'r ddeiseb yn datgan—ac mae ymgyrch Extinction Rebellion wedi dweud yn hyglyw iawn—fod angen rhoi'r camau hyn ar y gweill erbyn 2025. Rwy'n siŵr y bydd cyflymder yr ymateb i heriau newid hinsawdd yn bwnc a gaiff ei drafod ymhellach y prynhawn yma.

Yn olaf, mae'r ddeiseb yn galw am sefydlu cynulliad dinasyddion i oruchwylio'r newidiadau sydd eu hangen. Mae'r deisebwyr yn dadlau y dylai dinasyddion Cymru allu helpu i ddatblygu a chraffu ar y polisïau a fydd yn sail i raddau'r newid sydd ei angen. Credant y bydd dull o weithredu o'r fath yn lleihau gwrthdaro buddiannau, ac yn cynorthwyo gwleidyddion i wneud penderfyniadau er lles hirdymor pawb. Unwaith eto, mae'r cynnig hwn yn rhywbeth y bydd yr Aelodau am ei ystyried yn ystod eu cyfraniadau y prynhawn yma o bosibl.

I gloi, mae'r Pwyllgor Deisebau yn cydnabod y camau pwysig y mae Llywodraeth Cymru eisoes wedi'u cymryd, yn anad dim drwy ei datganiad argyfwng hinsawdd a'r ymrwymiadau y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u gwneud. Serch hynny, mae angen i bob un ohonom barhau i graffu'n drwyadl ar y camau pendant sy'n rhaid eu cymryd, a rhaid i bawb ohonom gydweithio i ddatblygu atebion effeithiol a fydd yn gwireddu'r ymrwymiadau heriol hyn. Felly, edrychaf ymlaen at wrando ar weddill y ddadl y prynhawn yma. Diolch yn fawr.

17:15

Daeth Suzy Davies i’r Gadair.

Suzy Davies took the Chair.

Mi gychwynnaf i jest drwy atgoffa Aelodau, efallai, o rai ystadegau a ffeithiau. Mae tymheredd ar gyfartaledd yn fyd-eang wedi cynyddu ym mhob degawd dros y 50 mlynedd diwethaf, ac mae'r 10 mlynedd gynhesaf ar record, wrth gwrs, wedi dod yn y 22 diwethaf, felly mae hynny'n dweud rhywbeth wrthym ni. Mae yna amcangyfrif bod y trychineb hinsawdd eisoes yn lladd dros 300,000 o bobl bob blwyddyn, ac mae gwyddonwyr, fel rŷm ni'n gwybod, o'r farn y byddai unrhyw gynnydd dros 2 radd yn y tymheredd byd-eang yn arwain at ganlyniadau trychinebus. A beth yw'r rheini? Wel, rhagor o lifogydd, rhagor o afiechyd, rhagor o sychder, rhagor o ryfel, wrth gwrs, yn sgil hynny, a newyn, a chreu cannoedd o filiynau o ffoaduriaid a dinistrio ecosystemau a rhywogaethau cyfan.

Felly, mae'n gwbl, gwbl addas fod y Llywodraeth a'r Senedd yma ac eraill wedi datgan argyfwng hinsawdd. Dwi'n falch bod Cadeirydd y pwyllgor wedi cyfeirio at y gwaith sydd wedi digwydd yng nghyngor Conwy. Dwi'n siŵr y byddai hi'n ymuno â fi i longyfarch Aaron Wynne, cynghorydd Plaid Cymru, wrth gwrs, a wnaeth gynnig y cynnig hwnnw, a diolch iddo fe am ei waith yn perswadio ei gyd-gynghorwyr i gefnogi'r cynnig, fel y mae cynghorwyr Plaid Cymru wedi gwneud yn sir Gaerfyrddin, ym Mhowys ac yn nifer o siroedd eraill ar draws Cymru. Ond wrth gwrs, un cam yw datgan argyfwng hinsawdd. Yr hyn mae hynny yn gorfod ei olygu, wrth gwrs, yw bod hynny yn arwain at newid go iawn. Ac mi fydd ymgyrchwyr, fel y rhai sydd wedi bod ar risiau'r Senedd yma yn gyson, mi fyddwn ni fel Plaid ac mi fydd eraill, wrth gwrs, dwi'n gwybod, yn y Siambr yma a thu hwnt nawr yn craffu'n fanwl ar ymateb y Llywodraeth, yn enwedig, i'r datganiad hwnnw.

Mi gafodd nifer ohonom ni ychydig o fraw pan ddywedodd y Prif Weinidog, dwi'n meddwl, ddiwrnod ar ôl datgan argyfwng newid hinsawdd nad oedd hynny o reidrwydd yn golygu newid polisi ar ran y Llywodraeth. Mi oedd yn destun pryder i mi, dwi'n gwybod. Ond, y peth pwysig nawr yw ein bod ni'n derbyn bod y status quo ddim yn aros. [Torri ar draws.] Ie, Joyce, wrth gwrs.

Thank you very much. I will start just by reminding Members of some statistics and facts. Temperature on average on a global level has increased every decade over the past 50 years, and the 10 warmest years on record have been in the last 22 years, so that tells us something. It is estimated that the climate crisis is already killing 300,000 per annum, and we know that scientists are of the view that any increase over two degrees in global temperatures would lead to catastrophic effects. And what does that mean? Well, further flooding, more ill health, more war, of course, more drought, and the creation of hundreds of millions of refugees, and destroying ecosystems and whole species.

So, it’s entirely appropriate that the Government, this Parliament and others have declared a climate emergency. I’m pleased that the committee Chair referred to the work that’s happened at Conwy council. I’m sure that she would join with me in congratulating Aaron Wynne, the Plaid Cymru councillor, of course, who moved that motion, and would want to thank him for his work in persuading his fellow councillors to support that motion, as Plaid Cymru councillors have done in Carmarthenshire, Powys and a number of other counties across Wales. But, of course, the declaration of a climate emergency is but one step. What that has to mean, of course, is that that leads to real change. Campaigners, such as those who have been on the steps of the Senedd, and us as a party and others, I know, in this Chamber and beyond will now be scrutinising the Government’s response in detail, particularly, in light of that declaration.

Many of us were slightly concerned when the First Minister said the day after the declaration of a climate emergency that that didn't necessarily mean a change of policy on behalf of the Welsh Government. That was a cause for concern for me, certainly. But, the important thing now is that we accept that the status quo is not an option. [Interruption.] Yes, Joyce, of course.

17:20

I'm glad that you have taken an intervention and I thank you for that. Could you explain why, according to a Cambrian News report, when I suggested that we do some rewilding and a £3.4 million project to rewild a large area of north Ceredigion and the Dyfi valley—Summit to Sea—Plaid Cymru opposed that?

Rwy'n falch eich bod wedi derbyn ymyriad a diolch i chi am hynny. A allech egluro pam, yn ôl adroddiad yn y Cambrian News, pan awgrymais y dylem wneud rhywfaint o ddad-ddofi a phrosiect £3.4 miliwn i ddad-ddofi rhan fawr o ogledd Ceredigion a dyffryn Dyfi—O'r Mynydd i'r Môr—fod Plaid Cymru wedi gwrthwynebu hynny?

I haven't read the article, but if you ask the people that I think would have been commenting on that, the point is that the rewilding agenda is being driven by outside forces and isn't a process that's rooted in the local community and is growing from the bottom up. Surely, you'd be the last person who would want to see multimillionaires telling local people in west Wales what to do. It's surely about those people having ownership of that process and making it happen themselves. Otherwise it's not sustainable, and we could call it all kinds of things, but it wouldn't be democracy. But, I digress. [Interruption.] Yes, and I think you achieved your purpose in intervening. Right. Where was I?

Nid wyf wedi darllen yr erthygl, ond os gofynnwch i'r bobl y credaf y byddent wedi gwneud sylwadau ar hynny, y pwynt yw fod yr agenda ddad-ddofi yn cael ei gyrru gan rymoedd allanol ac nad yw'n broses sydd wedi'i gwreiddio yn y gymuned leol ac sy'n tyfu o'r gwaelod i fyny. Yn sicr, chi fyddai'r person olaf a fyddai am weld lluosfiliwnyddion yn dweud wrth bobl leol yng ngorllewin Cymru beth i'w wneud. Does bosibl nad yw'n ymwneud â bod y bobl yn perchnogi'r broses honno ac yn gwneud iddi ddigwydd eu hunain. Fel arall, nid yw'n gynaliadwy, a gallem ei alw'n bob math o bethau, ond ni fyddai'n ddemocratiaeth. Ond rwy'n crwydro. [Torri ar draws.] Ydw, ac rwy'n credu i chi gyflawni eich pwrpas drwy ymyrryd. Iawn. Ble roeddwn i?

Y pwynt yr oeddwn i yn ei wneud, wrth gwrs, yw dŷn ni ddim yn sôn am risg hinsawdd; dŷn ni ddim yn sôn am broblem hinsawdd fan hyn. Rŷm ni'n sôn am argyfwng hinsawdd. Mae hynny'n golygu ymateb, ydy, ond ymateb sydyn a gweithredu ar frys. Mae panel rhynglywodraethol y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar newid hinsawdd wedi dweud mai 12 mlynedd sydd gennym ni i gyrraedd y nod. Felly, mae'n rhaid inni weithredu ar fyrder.

Nawr, mae'r Llywodraeth, cyn datgan argyfwng, wedi cyhoeddi'r papur 'Cymru Carbon Isel'. Mi oedd hwnnw'n gasgliad o nifer fawr o ddatganiadau a mentrau a oedd wedi cael eu cyhoeddi'n flaenorol. Rwy'n cydnabod bod y Gweinidog wedi gofyn i'w swyddogion i edrych eto ar hynny. Dwi ddim yn siŵr iawn beth yw'r amserlen ar gyfer gwneud hynny. Mi fydd angen diwygio. Mi fydd angen cryfhau. Dwi'n gobeithio'n fawr nad dim ond tincro gawn ni. Dwi wedi cyfeirio'n gyson at waith y Sefydliad Materion Cymreig ar ailegnïo Cymru. Mae hwnnw, i mi, yn gosod llwybr i gyrraedd y nod o Gymru i fod yn hunangynhaliol mewn ynni adnewyddadwy erbyn 2035. Dwi'n meddwl bod hwnnw'n darged y dylai'r Llywodraeth ei ystyried fel un i gyrraedd tuag ato.

Yr hyn rŷm ni'n ei gael yn y ddogfen honno gan y Llywodraeth—'Cymru Carbon Isel'—ar hyn o bryd yw ymrwymiadau i ymgynghori, i ystyried, i ddechrau archwilio. Mae'r dyddiau hynny wedi pasio. Mae'r amser wedi dod i weithredu. Dwi hefyd eisiau dweud fy mod i'n falch iawn bod y Cynulliad yma yn mynd i ymgynnull cynulliad y bobl—citizens' assembly. Mae hwnnw'n gam positif. Byddwn yn licio gweld hynny'n dod yn nodwedd fwy parhaol o'n democratiaeth ni. Ond, i hwnnw fod yn llwyddiant, mae'n rhaid i ni fel gwleidyddion, y Cynulliad hwn ac, yn sicr, y Llywodraeth, wrando, cymryd ystyriaeth lawn ac i weithredu ar sail yr hyn sy'n cael ei wyntyllu yn y cynulliadau hynny. Fel arall, y perygl yw y byddan nhw'n ddim byd ond siop siarad.

The point I was making, of course, is we’re not talking about the risks, we’re not talking about a climate problem here; we’re talking about a climate crisis or emergency, and that means a response, yes, but a swift response and urgent action. The intergovernmental panel of the United Nations on climate change has said that we have but 12 years to reach our aims, and therefore we do have to take action as a matter of urgency.

The Government, before the declaration of a climate emergency, had published their ‘A Low Carbon Wales’ paper. Now, that was a collection of many statements and initiatives that had previously been announced. I accept that the Minister had asked officials to look again at that. I’m not sure what the timetable for doing that is, but reform will be needed and that will need to be strengthened. And I hope we don’t see just tinkering at the edges. I’ve referred regularly to work of the Institute for Welsh Affairs on re-energising Wales and, for me, that gives us a route to reach a Wales that is self-sufficient in renewable energy by 2035. I think that is a target that the Government should consider adopting.

Now, what we see in that Government document—‘A Low Carbon Wales’—at the moment are commitments to consult, to consider, to start to look at, and those days are long gone. The time has come now to take action. I also want to say that I’m extremely pleased that this Assembly is going to gather a citizens' assembly together. That’s a positive step, and I would like to see that as a more permanent feature of our democracy. But, for that to succeed, then we as politicians, this Assembly and certainly the Government, must listen and must take full account and take action on the basis of what is said by that citizens’ assembly, because the danger is that it will be nothing more than a talking shop.

I congratulate the 6,000-odd petitioners for raising this with us today. I think a similar number signed a petition when I was initially elected to chair the climate change committee. There were similar misplaced security concerns at the time, and I was called in for a special discussion about how we were going to deal with a concern that the committee was going to be overrun by protesters, which I'm pleased to say didn't happen, any more than it did on the more recent occasion—albeit, in the case of the first committee that I chaired, we scheduled it for a 9 a.m. start on the Thursday immediately after Wales had been playing the Euro 2016 semi-final the night before. We didn't have any protesters at all.

We see, though, in the petition the demand that we have—the emphasis on net zero. There is one thing that I'd like to understand about this, and I don't know whether any other Members will be able to assist me in their speeches, or otherwise, or whether this is clear from the petition. By 'net zero', do they mean net zero within the United Kingdom? So, that's taking into account extra tree growth—which is certainly something that I would like to see and the offsetting from that—but not taking into account international offsetting. I'm not clear quite what's required. The UK position appears to have been that they are including that international offsetting, which makes it an awful lot cheaper to obtain this goal. When you get very close to eliminating carbon emissions, even if some are offset on a domestic basis, it gets an awful lot more expensive at the margin to do so because you've already taken the low-hanging fruit. 

One thing I think is very important in this debate—and I think some of the petitioners recognise this—is to understand how far the United Kingdom has come on this since the Kyoto commitment. We are now, I think, just over 40 per cent below 1990 levels of emissions, and that is virtually the largest reduction seen anywhere in the world, and I think that's something we should recognise and take pride in. The current legislation is until 2050, the 80 per cent reduction—basically, that would mean the same reduction again, but actually as a proportion or a percentage, that is a higher reduction. It's also more difficult because the easy gains from closing most of the coal-fired power stations and a lot of the heavy industry that we had in the 1980s, at least to an extent, but no longer do—that has already happened. So I'd like to ask to what extent we want to achieve this by paying other countries to do this for us on the basis they can make carbon reductions for less cost than we can in this country once we have got so close to the target that is projected.

I'd also like to just have people consider what is actually involved if we're going to get to this. It's one thing to declare a climate emergency—. And initially I thought the First Minister was saying it was just declaratory, and he wasn't planning any changes of policy, but then when he made a statement in the Chamber about the M4 decision he did emphasise climate change issues, albeit he hadn't mentioned those in the decision notice. So I'm still a little unclear on the extent to which this is changing Welsh Government policy or remains merely declaratory.

But for some of the big issues, if you want to move to anything like this target, you are going to have to rip out gas boilers from millions of homes and replace them with an alternative. Now, ground source heat pumps is one option that has seen some take-up, but broadly, if you want to do this at speed, if you're going to have electric central heating instead of gas central heating, at the moment that costs at least three times as much, and I just ask Members to consider how plausible it is, going to persuade or potentially even coerce constituents to make that change. I think we need to consider this as well as looking at what other people are doing internationally, and I think to the extent that people look to us for a lead—and I don't know the degree to which they do or do not—there may be some value in that.

I think we're at 1.8 per cent of global emissions now, and if the impact of this is going to be such economic self-harm that we are no longer to export many of the goods we are, or are going to struggle to compete with other countries that don’t take the same steps, then it will be less attractive than otherwise. Similarly, if we do see technology develop to such an extent that we can cost-effectively remove carbon from the atmosphere, then that makes it much more attractive to go down this route. On the other hand, if that isn't a technology that becomes cost-effective or doable, then the cost-benefit trade off for pushing this direction will be less attractive. Thank you.

Rwy'n llongyfarch yr oddeutu 6,000 o ddeisebwyr am ddod â hyn i'n sylw heddiw. Rwy'n meddwl bod nifer debyg wedi llofnodi deiseb pan gefais fy ethol i gadeirio'r pwyllgor ar newid hinsawdd yn wreiddiol. Roedd yna bryderon tebyg ynghylch diogelwch ar y pryd, a chefais fy ngalw i mewn i gael trafodaeth arbennig ynglŷn â sut roeddem yn mynd i ymdrin â phryder fod protestwyr yn mynd i oresgyn y pwyllgor, ac mae'n dda gennyf ddweud na ddigwyddodd hynny, ac ni ddigwyddodd hynny'n fwy diweddar chwaith—er, yn achos y pwyllgor cyntaf a gadeiriwyd gennyf, fe'i trefnwyd i ddechrau am 9 a.m. ar y dydd Iau yn syth wedi i Gymru fod yn chwarae yn rownd gynderfynol Ewro 2016 y noson cynt. Ni chawsom unrhyw brotestwyr o gwbl.

Ond yn y ddeiseb, gwelwn yr alwad ein bod yn cael pwyslais ar sero net. Un peth yr hoffwn ei ddeall am hyn, ac nid wyf yn gwybod a fydd unrhyw Aelodau eraill yn gallu fy nghynorthwyo yn eu hareithiau, neu fel arall, neu a yw hyn yn glir o'r ddeiseb. Wrth 'sero net', a ydynt yn golygu sero net o fewn y Deyrnas Unedig? Felly, mae hynny'n cynnwys twf coed ychwanegol—sy'n sicr yn rhywbeth yr hoffwn ei weld a'r gwrthbwyso a fyddai'n digwydd drwy hynny—ond heb gynnwys gwrthbwyso rhyngwladol. Nid wyf yn deall yn iawn am beth y gofynnir. Ymddengys mai safbwynt y DU oedd eu bod yn cynnwys y gwrthbwyso rhyngwladol, sy'n ei gwneud yn llawer rhatach i gyrraedd y nod hwn. Pan fyddwch yn agos iawn at ddileu allyriadau carbon, hyd yn oed os caiff rhai eu gwrthbwyso yma, mae'n mynd yn llawer drutach i wneud hynny yn agos at y nod oherwydd eich bod eisoes wedi sicrhau'r enillion hawdd.  

Un peth sy'n bwysig iawn yn y ddadl hon yn fy marn i—a chredaf fod rhai o'r deisebwyr yn cydnabod hyn—yw deall pa mor bell y mae'r Deyrnas Unedig wedi dod ar hyn ers ymrwymiad Kyoto. Rwy'n credu ein bod bellach ar ychydig dros 40 y cant islaw lefelau allyriadau 1990, a dyna'r gostyngiad mwyaf fwy neu lai a welwyd yn unman yn y byd, a chredaf fod hynny'n rhywbeth y dylem ei gydnabod ac ymfalchïo ynddo. Mae'r ddeddfwriaeth bresennol tan 2050, y gostyngiad o 80 y cant—yn y bôn, byddai hynny'n golygu'r un gostyngiad eto, ond mewn gwirionedd fel cyfran neu ganran, mae hwnnw'n ostyngiad uwch. Mae hefyd yn anos oherwydd bod y gwelliannau hawdd o gau'r rhan fwyaf o'r gorsafoedd pŵer a oedd yn llosgi glo a llawer o'r diwydiant trwm a oedd gennym yn y 1980, i raddau o leiaf, ond nad ydynt gennym bellach—mae hynny eisoes wedi digwydd. Felly, hoffwn ofyn i ba raddau rydym eisiau cyflawni hyn drwy dalu i wledydd eraill wneud hyn drosom ar y sail eu bod yn gallu gwneud gostyngiadau carbon am lai o gost nag y gallwn ni ei wneud yn y wlad hon ar ôl i ni fynd mor agos at y targed a ragwelir.

Hefyd, hoffwn gael pobl i ystyried y goblygiadau mewn gwirionedd os ydym am gyrraedd y lefel hon. Un peth yw datgan argyfwng hinsawdd—. Ac i ddechrau credais fod y Prif Weinidog yn dweud mai datganiad yn unig ydoedd, ac nad oedd yn cynllunio unrhyw newidiadau polisi, ond pan wnaeth ddatganiad yn y Siambr am benderfyniad yr M4, fe bwysleisiodd agweddau'n ymwneud â newid hinsawdd, er nad oedd wedi sôn am y rheini yn yr hysbysiad ynglŷn â'r penderfyniad. Felly rwy'n dal i fod ychydig yn aneglur ynglŷn ag i ba raddau y mae hyn yn newid polisi Llywodraeth Cymru neu'n parhau i fod yn ddim ond datganiad.

Ond ar gyfer rhai o'r materion mawr, os ydych am symud i unrhyw beth tebyg i'r targed hwn, bydd yn rhaid i chi gael gwared ar foeleri nwy o filiynau o gartrefi a rhoi rhywbeth yn eu lle. Nawr, mae pympiau gwres o'r ddaear yn un opsiwn y mae rhai pobl wedi manteisio arno, ond yn gyffredinol, os ydych am wneud hyn yn gyflym, os ydych yn mynd i gael gwres canolog trydan yn hytrach na gwres canolog nwy, ar hyn o bryd mae hwnnw'n costio o leiaf dair gwaith cymaint, ac nid wyf ond yn gofyn i Aelodau ystyried pa mor gredadwy yw mynd ati i berswadio neu hyd yn oed orfodi etholwyr o bosibl i wneud y newid hwnnw. Credaf fod angen inni ystyried hyn yn ogystal ag edrych ar yr hyn y mae pobl eraill yn ei wneud yn rhyngwladol, ac rwy'n credu i'r graddau fod pobl yn troi atom am arweiniad—ac nid wyf yn gwybod i ba raddau y maent yn gwneud hynny ai peidio—efallai fod rhywfaint o werth yn hynny.

Credaf ein bod ar 1.8 y cant o'r allyriadau byd-eang yn awr, ac os mai effaith hyn fydd hunan-niwed economaidd o'r fath fel na fyddwn bellach yn allforio llawer o'r nwyddau rydym yn eu hallforio, neu y byddwn yn cael trafferth i gystadlu â gwledydd eraill nad ydynt yn cymryd yr un camau, bydd yn llai deniadol nag fel arall. Yn yr un modd, os gwelwn dechnoleg yn datblygu i'r fath raddau fel y gallwn ddileu carbon o'r atmosffer yn gost-effeithiol, mae hynny'n gwneud dilyn y llwybr hwn yn llawer mwy deniadol. Ar y llaw arall, os nad yw honno'n dechnoleg sy'n dod yn gost-effeithiol neu'n gyflawnadwy, bydd y cydbwysedd cost a budd ar gyfer mynd i'r cyfeiriad hwn yn llai deniadol. Diolch.

17:25

I very much welcome this petition and the opportunity to speak on it. When historians look back on the National Assembly for Wales, they'll be astonished at how much time has been spent on how we trade with other countries and how little time we have given to the threat to our world and all species, including ourselves. It's beyond serious argument now that we're seeing climate change, and that unless action is taken now, we will see it getting worse and worse.

I'm pleased the Welsh Government has announced a climate change emergency. This declaration sends a clear signal that the Welsh Government understands that climate change threatens our health, economy, infrastructure, natural environment and, basically, ourselves. Tackling climate change is not an issue that can be left to individuals or to the free market. It requires collective action and for the government to have a central role in making that collective action possible.

I support the Welsh Government in its commitment to achieve a carbon-neutral public sector by 2030 and to co-ordinate action to help other areas of the economy to make a decisive shift away from fossil fuels, involving academia, industry and the third sector. If you look at the science, firstly, carbon oxidises into carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas. How do we know that? Compare Venus with Mercury. Mercury is about 58 million km from the sun, Venus is approximately twice as far at 108 million km. So you'd expect Mercury to have a hotter surface than Venus. The opposite is true. Why? It can only be about the atmosphere. Mercury's atmosphere contains small amounts of hydrogen, helium and oxygen. The atmosphere of Venus is layers of gases surrounding Venus. It is composed primarily of carbon dioxide. That means that it holds the temperature. We know that. It's not a matter of argument or, 'I don't believe in climate change', or 'I don't believe in carbon dioxide and greenhouse gas'—the facts are there. This is conclusive proof that carbon dioxide traps heat and makes the surface hotter.

'But we have carbon dioxide in our atmosphere now', people say. Yes, if we didn't have carbon dioxide, we would not have the temperate climate that exists on most of the earth. It traps heat. What we know is that if we get more carbon dioxide, the planet will get hotter and hotter.

As climate change takes place, our daily weather and normal temperatures will change, and the homes of plants and animals will be affected all over the world. Polar bears and seals are a good example of animals that will be affected by climate change. They'll have to find new land for hunting and living if the ice in the Arctic melts, but the fact is—more realistically—that these species will almost certainly become extinct.

Anyone over 50 will have noticed how our weather has changed in Wales. Simple things such as the end of persistent drizzle—which we used to have for days and days on end—have now been replaced by short periods of very, very heavy rain, which has led to flooding in many areas.

Looking at the rest of the world, starting with the United States of America—which is the best place to start, because it's the home many of the deniers—heat waves and droughts in Texas and the midwest set records for highest monthly average temperatures. Multimonth extreme heat has been unprecedented since the start of reliable instrumental records in 1895. Higher temperatures lead to increased rates of evaporation. Recently Texas and Oklahoma experienced more than 100 days over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. Both states set new records for the hottest summer since record keeping began in 1895. Heavy downpours are increasing nationally, especially over the last three to five decades. The heaviest rainfall events have become heavier and more frequent, and the amount of rain falling on the heaviest rain days has also increased. Since 1991, the amount of rain falling in very heavy precipitation events has been significantly above average. America is suffering; the rest of the world is going to follow.

Turning to Africa. New research says the continent will experience many extreme outbreaks of intense rainfall over the next 80 years leading to floods, storms and farming failure, moving from intense rain every 30 to 40 years to intense rain every three or four years. This will be interspersed with crippling droughts that will also affect food production.

A four degree warmer world will lead to drowned cities, drowned island nations, stagnant seas, intolerable heatwaves, huge areas uninhabitable and over 11 billion people trying to live on it. A four degree warmer world is the stuff of horror movies—a sort of apocalypse coming to you shortly. This is, unfortunately, the direction we are heading in if we fail to reduce carbon dioxide increasing in the atmosphere to stop global warming. Nice words and limited action are not an option. We only have one world. For the last 200 years we have abused it. Unless we take action now, then we are in danger of destroying it and most life forms, and that includes our own.

Rwy'n croesawu'r ddeiseb hon yn fawr a'r cyfle i siarad amdani. Pan fydd haneswyr yn edrych yn ôl ar Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, byddant yn synnu faint o amser a dreuliwyd ar sut rydym yn masnachu â gwledydd eraill a chyn lleied o amser rydym wedi'i roi i'r bygythiad i'n byd a phob rhywogaeth, gan gynnwys ni ein hunain. Mae y tu hwnt i ddadl ddifrifol yn awr ein bod yn gweld newid yn yr hinsawdd, ac oni weithredir yn awr, byddwn yn ei weld yn gwaethygu fwyfwy.

Rwy'n falch fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cyhoeddi argyfwng newid hinsawdd. Mae'r datganiad hwn yn anfon neges glir fod Llywodraeth Cymru'n deall bod newid hinsawdd yn bygwth ein hiechyd, ein heconomi, ein seilwaith, ein hamgylchedd naturiol, a ni ein hunain yn y bôn. Nid yw gwrthsefyll newid hinsawdd yn fater y gellir ei adael i unigolion neu i'r farchnad rydd. Mae'n galw am weithredu ar y cyd ac am i'r llywodraeth gael rhan ganolog yn sicrhau bod gweithredu ar y cyd yn bosibl.

Rwy'n cefnogi Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei hymrwymiad i sicrhau sector cyhoeddus carbon-niwtral erbyn 2030 ac i gydlynu camau gweithredu i helpu rhannau eraill o'r economi i symud yn bendant oddi wrth danwyddau ffosil, gan gynnwys y byd academaidd, diwydiant a'r trydydd sector. Os edrychwch ar y wyddoniaeth, yn gyntaf, mae carbon yn ocsideiddio'n garbon deuocsid. Mae carbon deuocsid yn nwy tŷ gwydr. Sut y gwyddom hynny? Cymharwch y blaned Gwener â'r blaned Mercher. Mae Mercher tua 58 miliwn cilomedr o'r haul, mae Gwener tua dwywaith mor bell, 108 miliwn cilomedr. Felly, byddech yn disgwyl i wyneb y blaned Mercher fod yn boethach na wyneb y blaned Gwener. Y gwrthwyneb sy'n wir. Pam? Mae'n ymwneud â mwy na'r atmosffer. Mae atmosffer Mercher yn cynnwys cyfeintiau bach o hydrogen, heliwm ac ocsigen. Mae atmosffer Gwener yn haenau o nwyon sy'n amgylchynu Gwener. Mae'n cynnwys carbon deuocsid yn bennaf. Mae hynny'n golygu ei fod yn dal y tymheredd. Rydym yn gwybod hynny. Nid yw'n fater o ddadl neu, 'Nid wyf yn credu mewn newid hinsawdd', neu 'Nid wyf yn credu mewn carbon deuocsid a nwy tŷ gwydr' —mae'r ffeithiau yno. Mae hyn yn brawf pendant fod carbon deuocsid yn dal gwres ac yn gwneud yr arwyneb yn boethach.

'Ond mae gennym garbon deuocsid yn ein hatmosffer yn awr', medd pobl. Oes, a phe na bai gennym garbon deuocsid, ni fyddai gennym yr hinsawdd dymherus sy'n bodoli ar y rhan fwyaf o'r ddaear. Mae'n dal gwres. Yr hyn a wyddom yw, os cawn fwy o garbon deuocsid, bydd y blaned yn mynd yn boethach ac yn boethach.

Wrth i newid hinsawdd ddigwydd, bydd ein tywydd o ddydd i ddydd a'n tymereddau arferol yn newid, a bydd hyn yn effeithio ar gartrefi planhigion ac anifeiliaid ledled y byd. Mae eirth gwyn a morloi yn enghraifft dda o anifeiliaid yr effeithir arnynt gan newid hinsawdd. Bydd yn rhaid iddynt ddod o hyd i dir newydd ar gyfer hela a byw os bydd y rhew yn yr Arctig yn toddi, ond y gwir amdani—yn fwy realistig—yw y bydd y rhywogaethau hyn bron yn sicr o ddiflannu.

Bydd unrhyw un dros 50 wedi sylwi ar sut y mae ein tywydd wedi newid yng Nghymru. Mae pethau syml fel glaw mân parhaus—yr arferem ei gael am ddyddiau bwy'i giydd—wedi troi bellach yn gyfnodau byr o law trwm iawn, sydd wedi arwain at lifogydd mewn sawl ardal.

O edrych ar weddill y byd, gan ddechrau gydag Unol Daleithiau America—sef y lle gorau i ddechrau, oherwydd mae'n gartref i lawer o'r rhai sy'n gwadu newid hinsawdd—mae gwres a sychder yn Texas a'r gorllewin canol wedi arwain at dymereddau cyfartalog misol uwch nag a welwyd o'r blaen. Ceir digwyddiadau o wres eithafol digynsail sy'n para am sawl mis ar lefel waeth nag ers dechrau cadw cofnodion ag offer dibynadwy yn 1895. Mae tymereddau uwch yn arwain at gynyddu cyfraddau anweddu. Yn ddiweddar fe brofodd Texas ac Oklahoma fwy na 100 diwrnod dros 100 gradd Fahrenheit. Mae'r ddwy dalaith wedi gweld hafau poethach nag a welwyd ers dechrau cadw cofnodion yn 1895. Mae glawiadau trwm wedi cynyddu'n genedlaethol, yn enwedig dros y tri i bump degawd diwethaf. Mae'r digwyddiadau glaw trymaf wedi mynd yn drymach ac yn fwy mynych, ac mae faint o law sy'n disgyn ar y dyddiau pan fo'n glawio drymaf wedi cynyddu hefyd. Ers 1991, mae faint o law sy'n disgyn mewn digwyddiadau glaw trwm iawn wedi bod yn sylweddol uwch na'r cyfartaledd. Mae America yn dioddef; mae gweddill y byd yn mynd i ddilyn.

Gan droi at Affrica. Mae ymchwil newydd yn dweud y bydd y cyfandir yn profi llawer o achosion eithafol o law trwm dros yr 80 mlynedd nesaf gan arwain at lifogydd, stormydd a methiant ffermio, gan newid o law trwm iawn bob 30 i 40 mlynedd i law trwm iawn bob tair neu bedair blynedd. Bydd hyn yn digwydd am yn ail â sychder llethol a fydd hefyd yn effeithio ar gynhyrchiant bwyd.

Bydd byd sydd bedair gradd yn gynhesach yn arwain at foddi dinasoedd, boddi ynysoedd, moroedd llonydd, tywydd annioddefol o boeth, ardaloedd enfawr o dir na ellir byw arno a thros 11 biliwn o bobl yn ceisio byw ynddo. Byd sydd bedair gradd yn gynhesach yw'r hyn a geir mewn ffilmiau arswyd—math o apocalyps sydd ar ei ffordd yn fuan. Yn anffodus, dyma'r cyfeiriad rydym yn anelu iddo os methwn leihau'r carbon deuocsid sy'n cynyddu yn yr atmosffer i atal cynhesu byd-eang. Nid yw geiriau da a gweithredu cyfyngedig yn opsiwn. Dim ond un byd sydd gennym. Am y 200 mlynedd diwethaf rydym wedi ei gam-drin. Oni weithredwn yn awr, rydym mewn perygl o ddinistrio'r byd a'r rhan fwyaf o'r pethau sy'n byw ynddo, ac mae hynny'n ein cynnwys ni.

17:30

Climate change is one of the biggest issues right now, and the activity throughout the world is something to admire and to encourage. But what really frustrates me about Wales is that we have a Government declaring a climate change emergency, and yet the actual concrete policies on the ground totally fly in the face of that declaration.

As ever, I'll talk about local development plans, because those are the blueprints for the future of Wales, of our communities. And if we look at Cardiff's local development plan, there's just field upon field being concreted right now, habitats being destroyed, which will never, ever be replaced, flood plains being built on, and an absolute calamity for the environment. So, please forgive me, but we're here talking about the climate change emergency and we all agree on it it seems, almost, and yet what is being done flies in the face of it, as I said.

I'll declare an interest, because very near to where I live, there are going to be 10,000 extra cars on the road every single day. And the number is increasing already. We see gridlock. We have cars throwing out poisonous fumes. It just seems that nowadays everyone I speak to has asthma. People in their late 40s and 50s are developing asthma nowadays.

What I really would love to see from the Government in this Assembly is some proactive policies. Trams—let's have electric trams in this city. Let's make sure that every bus that runs is an electric bus. Why aren't we greening public infrastructure? We have bridges everywhere ferrying tens of thousands of cars every single day. The flyover in Gabalfa—green it. Look what they do around the world. [Interruption.] Yes. 

Newid hinsawdd yw un o'r problemau pwysicaf ar hyn o bryd, ac mae'r gweithgarwch ledled y byd yn rhywbeth i'w edmygu a'i annog. Ond yr hyn sy'n fy mhoeni'n wirioneddol am Gymru yw bod gennym Lywodraeth sy'n datgan argyfwng newid hinsawdd, ac eto mae'r polisïau real ar lawr gwlad yn mynd yn gwbl groes i'r datganiad hwnnw.

Fel arfer, byddaf yn sôn am gynlluniau datblygu lleol, oherwydd dyna'r glasbrint ar gyfer dyfodol Cymru, dyfodol ein cymunedau. Ac os edrychwn ar gynllun datblygu lleol Caerdydd, mae cae ar ben cae yn cael ei orchuddio gan goncrid ar hyn o bryd, cynefinoedd yn cael eu dinistrio, cynefinoedd na ellir byth mo'u hadnewyddu, adeiladu ar orlifdiroedd, a thrychineb llwyr i'r amgylchedd. Felly, maddeuwch i mi, ond rydym yn sôn am yr argyfwng newid hinsawdd ac rydym i gyd yn cytuno arno, mae'n ymddangos, bron iawn, ac eto mae'r hyn sy'n cael ei wneud yn mynd yn groes i hynny, fel y dywedais.

Rwyf am ddatgan buddiant, oherwydd yn agos iawn at lle rwy'n byw, bydd 10,000 o geir ychwanegol ar y ffordd bob diwrnod. Ac mae'r nifer yn cynyddu'n barod. Gwelwn dagfeydd. Mae gennym geir sy'n gwasgaru mygdarth gwenwynig. Mae'n ymddangos y dyddiau hyn fod pawb rwy'n siarad â hwy'n dioddef o asthma. Mae pobl yn eu 40au hwyr a'u 50au yn datblygu asthma y dyddiau hyn.

Yr hyn y byddai'n braf iawn gennyf ei weld gan y Llywodraeth yn y Cynulliad hwn yw polisïau rhagweithiol. Tramiau—beth am gael tramiau trydan yn y ddinas hon. Beth am wneud yn siŵr fod pob bws sydd ar y ffordd yn fws trydan. Pam nad ydym yn gwyrddu seilwaith cyhoeddus? Mae gennym bontydd ym mhobman yn cario degau o filoedd o geir bob dydd. Y drosffordd yn Gabalfa—gwyrddwch hi. Edrychwch beth maent yn ei wneud ym mhob cwr o'r byd. [Torri ar draws.] Iawn.

17:35

One reason in terms of electric buses is that they cost approximately twice as much as conventional buses. Perhaps that cost will come down, but in the meantime how would the Member like to pay for that additional cost?

Un rheswm o ran bysiau trydan yw eu bod yn costio tua dwywaith cymaint â bysiau confensiynol. Efallai y bydd y gost honno'n gostwng, ond yn y cyfamser sut y byddai'r Aelod yn hoffi talu am y gost ychwanegol honno?

That's a really good question. What we need to do is make it a political priority, because if it is a climate change emergency with this Government, then make it a priority. How much money was spent on the M4, for example? £115 million. I could stand here and list waste after waste after waste. Opportunity lost after opportunity lost. When you don't want to do something, saying there's not the money is always an excuse. What we should be doing is investing in clean transport. If we accept that it is an emergency then we really have to do something now and not just talk about it. Diolch yn fawr. 

Mae hwnnw'n gwestiwn da iawn. Yr hyn sydd angen inni ei wneud yw ei wneud yn flaenoriaeth wleidyddol, oherwydd os yw'n argyfwng newid hinsawdd i'r Llywodraeth hon, yna dylid rhoi blaenoriaeth iddo. Faint o arian a wariwyd ar y M4, er enghraifft? £115 miliwn. Gallwn sefyll yma a rhestru gwastraff ar ôl gwastraff ar ôl gwastraff. Cyfle a gollwyd ar ôl cyfle a gollwyd. Pan nad ydych eisiau gwneud rhywbeth, mae dweud nad oes arian bob amser yn esgus. Yr hyn y dylem ei wneud yw buddsoddi mewn trafnidiaeth lân. Os derbyniwn ei fod yn argyfwng, rhaid inni wneud rhywbeth yn awr yn hytrach na dim ond siarad am y peth. Diolch yn fawr.

I agree with Neil McEvoy that we have got to change the way we do things. Clearly, we do need to introduce electric trams and buses. I absolutely agree that we need to highlight the need to change planning policy, so that we're not building housing developments in areas where there is insufficient public transport to enable people to get around, but I would invite Councillor McEvoy to focus on ensuring that the local authority where he represents his local community has got that in mind too. Because it isn't just in the area that he represents that there's been houses being put up in areas where the transport system is simply inadequate to cope with it.

What we do need is a transformative policy to ensure that we have a metro system that ensures that development takes place around the metro hubs and spokes. Because we absolutely cannot afford to have more carbon emissions from vehicles and we have to plan differently to step up to the plate on climate change. Because we have to remember that the UN inter-governmental panel on climate change warns us that we've only got 12 years to save the world. That's a pretty scary concept. So, I very much welcome the Welsh Government's declaration of a climate emergency, but we need to follow that up with actions to deliver on that.

We were reminded yesterday by Darren Millar about 30 years since the Towyn flood, and I'm afraid to say that that sort of event is going to become more common unless we change our ways. We have to bear in mind that we are only in control over what goes on in the United Kingdom. We cannot do anything about what goes on in other countries, other than joining in with international organisations and urging them to meet their obligations under the Paris agreement. 

But, going back to what we can affect, I think that Mark Reckless is absolutely right to ask the question, 'Can we really afford to rip out gas boilers and have ground-source and air-source heat pumps instead?' And the answer is, 'Absolutely.' We must be able to, because the more people who use ground-source and air-source heat pumps, the reduction in the price will go with it. We have to have a green new deal to address this problem, and that involves really transforming the way we do things.

We've got to have the electric trams and buses that Neil McEvoy talked about. How will we pay for them? Well, at the moment, we need to pay for them from taxing people who do the wrong thing. At the moment, we have a UK Government that is resistant to maintaining the escalator on the energy price that we're charged at the petrol pumps. We should be making car transport more expensive relative to public transport. I'd personally like to see public transport provided for free because I think that is a necessary measure, in line with what David Attenborough and the UN experts are warning us. We have to have active travel routes to all our schools so that all our children will be able to either walk or cycle, because that has to be the main mode of transport for children who live within a reasonable distance of where they're going to school.

So, I think that it does require a transformation in the way we plan services, in the way we retrofit all our housing. Wales has more antiquated housing than other parts of the United Kingdom and, in addition to that, we are continuing to allow the mass house builders to build houses that are not energy efficient, and are going to need to be retrofitted. So, we need to put a stop to that and change Part L of the planning policy. It absolutely fits in with the green new deal that we absolutely have to have.

I don't think any of us have a glass bowl to see what are the changes that are going to be necessary, but we all need to put our heads together to work out what we have to do, and we have to have radical change. I'm proud to be sponsoring— 

Rwy'n cytuno â Neil McEvoy fod rhaid i ni newid y ffordd y gwnawn bethau. Yn amlwg, mae angen i ni gyflwyno tramiau a bysus trydan. Cytunaf yn llwyr fod angen inni dynnu sylw at yr angen i newid polisi cynllunio fel nad ydym yn adeiladu datblygiadau tai mewn ardaloedd lle nad oes digon o drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus i alluogi pobl i symud o gwmpas, ond buaswn yn gwahodd y Cynghorydd McEvoy i ganolbwyntio ar sicrhau bod yr awdurdod lleol lle mae'n cynrychioli ei gymuned leol yn cadw hynny mewn cof hefyd. Oherwydd nid dim ond yn yr ardal y mae'n ei chynrychioli y mae tai'n cael eu codi mewn ardaloedd lle mae'r system drafnidiaeth yn annigonol i ddygymod â hwy.

Yr hyn sydd ei angen yw polisi trawsnewidiol er mwyn gwneud yn siŵr fod gennym system fetro sy'n sicrhau bod datblygiad yn digwydd o amgylch y prif ganolfannau a lloerennau metro. Oherwydd ni allwn fforddio cael mwy o allyriadau carbon o gerbydau ac mae'n rhaid i ni gynllunio mewn ffordd wahanol i wneud yr hyn sy'n rhaid inni ei wneud ar newid hinsawdd. Oherwydd mae'n rhaid inni gofio bod panel rhynglywodraethol y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar newid hinsawdd yn ein rhybuddio mai dim ond 12 mlynedd sydd gennym i achub y byd. Mae hwnnw'n gysyniad eithaf brawychus. Felly, rwy'n croesawu'n fawr y datganiad gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar argyfwng hinsawdd, ond mae angen inni ddilyn hynny â chamau gweithredu.

Cawsom ein hatgoffa ddoe gan Darren Millar ei bod hi'n 30 mlynedd ers llifogydd Tywyn, ac mae'n ddrwg gennyf ddweud bod y math hwnnw o ddigwyddiad yn mynd i fod yn fwy cyffredin oni bai ein bod yn newid ein ffyrdd. Rhaid inni gofio mai'r hyn sy'n digwydd yn y Deyrnas Unedig yn unig sydd o dan ein rheolaeth. Ni allwn wneud dim am yr hyn sy'n digwydd mewn gwledydd eraill ar wahân i ymuno â sefydliadau rhyngwladol a'u hannog i gyflawni eu rhwymedigaethau o dan gytundeb Paris.  

Ond i fynd yn ôl at yr hyn y gallwn ddylanwadu arno, credaf fod Mark Reckless yn hollol iawn i ofyn y cwestiwn, 'A allwn fforddio tynnu boeleri nwy a chael pympiau gwres o'r ddaear a'r aer yn eu lle?' A'r ateb yw, 'Yn bendant. ' Rhaid inni allu gwneud hynny, oherwydd po fwyaf o bobl sy'n defnyddio pympiau gwres o'r ddaear ac o'r aer, bydd y gostyngiad yn y pris yn mynd gyda hynny. Rhaid inni gael bargen newydd werdd i fynd i'r afael â'r broblem hon, ac mae hynny'n golygu mynd ati o ddifrif i drawsnewid y ffordd y gwnawn bethau.

Mae'n rhaid i ni gael y tramiau trydan a'r bysys y soniodd Neil McEvoy amdanynt. Sut y talwn amdanynt? Wel, ar hyn o bryd, mae angen inni dalu amdanynt drwy drethu pobl sy'n gwneud y peth anghywir. Ar hyn o bryd, mae gennym Lywodraeth yn y DU sy'n gwrthod cynnal y cymal codi prisiau ynni a dalwn am betrol. Dylem wneud trafnidiaeth ceir yn ddrutach o'i gymharu â chludiant cyhoeddus. Yn bersonol, hoffwn weld trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn cael ei darparu am ddim gan fy mod yn credu bod hwnnw'n fesur angenrheidiol, yn unol â'r hyn y mae David Attenborough ac arbenigwyr y Cenhedloedd Unedig yn ein rhybuddio yn ei gylch. Rhaid inni gael llwybrau teithio llesol i bob un o'n hysgolion er mwyn i'n holl blant allu cerdded neu feicio, oherwydd rhaid i hynny fod yn brif ddull o deithio ar gyfer plant sy'n byw o fewn pellter rhesymol i'r ysgol.

Felly, credaf fod angen gweddnewid y ffordd rydym yn cynllunio gwasanaethau, y ffordd rydym yn addasu ein holl dai. Mae gan Gymru fwy o dai hynafol na rhannau eraill o'r Deyrnas Unedig, ac yn ogystal â hynny, rydym yn parhau i ganiatáu i adeiladwyr tai ar raddfa fawr adeiladu tai nad ydynt yn effeithlon o ran eu defnydd o ynni, a bydd angen eu hôl-osod. Felly, mae angen i ni roi diwedd ar hynny a newid Rhan L y polisi cynllunio. Mae'n cyd-fynd yn llwyr â'r fargen newydd werdd y mae'n rhaid inni ei chael.

Nid wyf yn meddwl bod gan yr un ohonom belen wydr i weld beth yw'r newidiadau sy'n mynd i fod yn angenrheidiol, ond mae angen i bawb ohonom roi ein pennau at ei gilydd i weld beth sy'n rhaid i ni ei wneud, ac mae'n rhaid i ni gael newid radical. Rwy'n falch o fod yn noddi—  

17:40

Thanks. I'm saying this in the spirit of co-operation, because it's your party that put through the local development plan in Cardiff. So, I wonder whether you would maybe join me and other people to ask them to alter the plan, and to stop stages 3, 4 and 5, where a massive amount of environmental damage is going to be done. So, would you join us, cross-party, in doing that? 

Diolch. Rwy'n dweud hyn mewn ysbryd cydweithredol, am mai eich plaid chi a gyflwynodd y cynllun datblygu lleol yng Nghaerdydd. Felly, tybed a fyddech yn ymuno â mi a phobl eraill i ofyn iddynt newid y cynllun, ac i atal camau 3, 4 a 5, lle bydd llawer iawn o ddifrod amgylcheddol yn cael ei wneud. Felly, a fyddech chi'n ymuno â ni, yn drawsbleidiol, i wneud hynny?

Thank you for that intervention. I think when the facts change, we have to change our mind, and I think that is why the First Minister made the right decision on the M4. I think that we will need to revisit the local development plan, because the climate emergency is now much worse than we had estimated when the local development plan was implemented. So, it does require us to look at absolutely everything.

I was about to go on to say that I'm proud to be hosting, along with Llyr Gruffydd, the Extinction Rebellion seminar that's going to be taking place on 4 July, because I think they will come up with some really energetic ideas about some of the things that we really do need to do. The future of our planet is in our hands. We can simply do nothing as legislators and allow disaster to strike for our grandchildren, or we legislate to change. 

Diolch i chi am yr ymyriad hwnnw. Pan fydd y ffeithiau'n newid, rwy’n credu bod rhaid i ni newid ein meddwl, a chredaf mai dyna pam y gwnaeth y Prif Weinidog y penderfyniad cywir ar yr M4. Credaf y bydd angen inni ailedrych ar y cynllun datblygu lleol, oherwydd mae'r argyfwng hinsawdd yn llawer gwaeth bellach nag yr oeddem wedi'i ragdybio pan weithredwyd y cynllun datblygu lleol. Felly, mae'n ei gwneud yn ofynnol i ni edrych ar bob dim.

Roeddwn ar fin dweud fy mod yn falch o gynnal y seminar Extinction Rebellion ar 4 Gorffennaf gyda Llyr Gruffydd, oherwydd rwy'n credu y bydd ganddynt syniadau gwirioneddol egnïol ynglŷn â rhai o'r pethau y mae gwir angen inni eu gwneud. Mae dyfodol ein planed yn ein dwylo ni. Gallwn fodloni ar wneud dim fel deddfwyr a chaniatáu i drychineb daro ar gyfer ein hwyrion, neu gallwn ddeddfu i newid.

Minister, the strength of feeling on this matter is evident from the amount of correspondence I'm sure that we've all received, and the fact that our young people are motivated to go on strike and that Extinction Rebellion have recently taken over parts of London and are threatening to close down major airports by fair means or foul. It seems to me that the Welsh Government caught the mood of the nation when it declared its own climate change emergency. Minister, I was as concerned as Andrew R.T. Davies earlier, but you've now explained that apart from this emergency being notified to Cabinet on 29 April as an item in 'any other business', it was actually discussed in various other meetings previous to your announcement, as this declaration affects all of us and every single area of Government.

I listened to an interview on Talk Radio, where a representative of Extinction Rebellion was suggesting that everyone in the UK is entitled to one return flight per year, and while I appreciate that they are not yet elected, they do appear to be driving the agenda. I'm no expert in this area, but I do know that air travel is one of the biggest pulls on resources, so I wonder how this climate change emergency declaration sits alongside the Welsh Government’s continued ownership of the airport and the active promotion of air travel, including the subsidy of the Anglesey air link?

This petition has been partly addressed by the declaration. However, I do question the practicality of the other requirements, certainly in terms of speed, and I think there is something about expectation management across all of the Governments of the UK. Be honest about what is achievable, and point out that cheap clothes and cheap food all cost something, somewhere.

I'm a keen seamstress, and I like nothing better than finding something beautiful and unique in a charity shop and making it my own. The same with furniture. More emphasis should be put on people reusing things, but, yes, let’s all raise our game. Action has already been taken: the carrier bag levy from Wales—fantastic—recycling and so on. We're the highest in recycling rates throughout the UK. However, I think that there are some quick wins that need to happen. I note that a recent report suggests that Wales is one of the least well-equipped areas in terms of electric charging points for cars, and we’ve been talking about this for ages.

There's also something about our circle of influence, and it seems sensible to me to start with public sector buildings and practices: bring these to carbon neutral, embed good practice, and encourage our constituents to do the same. If we don't do it, they're not going to do it. After all, this is everybody’s problem and we're all part of the solution.

Weinidog, mae cryfder y teimlad ynglŷn â’r mater hwn yn amlwg yn ôl faint o ohebiaeth y mae pawb ohonom wedi’i chael, rwy'n siŵr, a'r ffaith bod ein pobl ifanc yn cael eu cymell i fynd ar streic a bod Extinction Rebellion wedi meddiannu rhannau o Lundain yn ddiweddar ac yn bygwth cau meysydd awyr mawr trwy ddulliau teg neu fel arall. Ymddengys i mi fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cyfleu teimladau’r genedl pan ddatganodd ei hargyfwng newid hinsawdd ei hun. Weinidog, roeddwn mor bryderus ag Andrew R.T. Davies yn gynharach, ond rydych chi bellach wedi egluro bod yr argyfwng hwn wedi’i drafod mewn amryw o gyfarfodydd eraill cyn i chi wneud y datganiad, ar wahân i fod yn eitem ‘unrhyw fater arall’ yn y Cabinet ar 29 Ebrill, gan fod y datganiad hwn yn effeithio ar bawb ohonom a phob maes Llywodraeth yn ddiwahân.

Gwrandewais ar gyfweliad ar Talk Radio, lle roedd cynrychiolydd ar ran Extinction Rebellion yn awgrymu bod gan bawb yn y DU hawl i un daith awyr ddwyffordd y flwyddyn, ac er fy mod yn derbyn nad ydynt wedi’u hethol eto, ymddengys eu bod yn gyrru'r agenda. Nid wyf yn arbenigwr yn y maes, ond gwn fod teithiau awyr yn un o'r pethau sy’n defnyddio fwyaf o adnoddau, felly tybed sut y mae'r datganiad argyfwng newid hinsawdd yn cyd-fynd â pherchnogaeth barhaus Llywodraeth Cymru ar y maes awyr a hyrwyddo teithiau awyr yn weithredol, gan gynnwys y cymhorthdal i gyswllt awyr Ynys Môn?

Mae'r datganiad wedi ateb y ddeiseb hon yn rhannol. Fodd bynnag, rwy’n cwestiynu ymarferoldeb y gofynion eraill, yn sicr o ran cyflymder, a chredaf fod rhywbeth yma ynghylch rheoli disgwyliadau ar draws holl Lywodraethau'r DU. Byddwch yn onest am yr hyn y gellir ei gyflawni, a nodwch fod dillad rhad a bwyd rhad i gyd yn costio rhywbeth yn rhywle.

Rwy'n wniadwraig frwd, ac nid oes dim yn well gennyf na dod o hyd i rywbeth prydferth ac unigryw mewn siop elusen a'i wneud yn rhywbeth i mi fy hun. Yr un peth gyda dodrefn. Dylid rhoi mwy o bwyslais ar ailddefnyddio pethau, ond gadewch i bawb ohonom wneud yn well. Mae camau wedi’u cymryd eisoes: yr ardoll ar fagiau siopa yng Nghymru—gwych—ailgylchu ac ati. Ni sydd ar frig y rhestr yn y DU o ran cyfraddau ailgylchu. Fodd bynnag, credaf fod angen i rai enillion cyflym ddigwydd. Nodaf fod adroddiad diweddar yn awgrymu mai Cymru yw un o'r ardaloedd gwaethaf o ran y ddarpariaeth o bwyntiau gwefru ceir trydan, ac rydym wedi bod yn siarad am hyn ers oesoedd.

Mae yna rywbeth hefyd ynglŷn â’n cylch dylanwad, ac mae'n ymddangos yn synhwyrol i mi ddechrau gydag adeiladau ac arferion sector cyhoeddus: gwnewch y rhain yn garbon niwtral, ymgorfforwch arferion da, ac anogwch ein hetholwyr i wneud yr un peth. Os na wnawn ni hynny, nid ydynt hwy’n mynd i'w wneud. Wedi'r cyfan, mae hon yn broblem i bawb ac rydym i gyd yn rhan o'r ateb.

17:45

Galwaf ar Weinidog yr Amgylchedd, Ynni a Materion Gwledig, Lesley Griffiths. 

I call on the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs, Lesley Griffiths. 

Thank you very much, chair. I'm very pleased to be responding on behalf of the Welsh Government. We accept the motion and we note the petition, and I, too, am grateful to the thousands of people who signed the petition and the many more who brought such a focus to this crucial issue in recent weeks.

At the end of April, as has been pointed out, I declared a climate change emergency on behalf of the Welsh Government. Later the same week, this National Assembly voted in favour of such a declaration and they were the first Parliament in the world to do so. I've explained the reasons why we did that several times in this place, but I will reiterate them because I think it's really important, and I also want to report on what's happened since then. 

So, the declaration was to galvanise people, organisations, businesses into action too, and I just want to give a couple of examples. I mentioned in questions earlier this afternoon that several local authorities have now declared a climate emergency, along with several town councils, and I think the majority of them have said they did it following our lead. Also businesses, and I was very pleased that the businesses that sit on my colleague the Minister for Economy and Transport's economic council asked me to go along to the latest meeting to listen to what they want to do to help mitigate climate change. So, I think it has had the effect we wanted in galvanising people, but, of course, there's much more to do. 

I think the level of public support for the climate emergency campaign really reflects the desire for politicians to tell the truth about the situation, and the Welsh Government is under no illusion as to the dangers we face as well as the solutions that are within our grasp. Every Minister will need to look at their policies. I've said that the low-carbon delivery plan—and I would urge every Member to read that plan—there are 100 policies and proposals, and, sometimes, I think that, perhaps, it hasn't been read in the depth it should be done. We set that out in March, but even though that was set out in March, I have asked officials to review it in light of the advice I received from the UK climate change committee. 

So, alongside that, I'm also looking at the sustainable land management. Unlike Plaid Cymru, I think we should get away from basic payment schemes because I think the proposals that we've got, rewarding environmental outcomes, rewarding sustainable food production, will help with the agricultural carbon emissions, and I'm really pleased to see the way that the NFU held a conference recently about sustainable food production and land management, and they've come forward with proposals to be carbon neutral by 2040, 10 years ahead of us. So, I think it's really important that we look at that proposal too. 

Cardiff Airport has been thrown at me many times. It was thrown at me again today. I should say, again: read the advice from the UK Committee on Climate Change. Unlike any other country, I think, in the UK, our carbon budgets include all emissions from aviation in Wales, both domestic and international flights. I think we're the only country to do that. So, the UK CCC has not assumed any reduction in international aviation emissions arising from Welsh or UK unilateral policy action. 

We agree with the petitioners that we must ensure that all current and future policies are consistent with averting further climate change and ecological collapse, and I think the two Labour Members who spoke both alluded to that. Our Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 and our Environment (Wales) Act 2016 were put in place with exactly that purpose in mind. Our environment Act, for example, places legal duties on Welsh Ministers and public bodies to maintain and enhance biodiversity. There is a requirement to produce their first report on how they are fulfilling their duty by the end of this year, and our environment Act also includes legally binding targets for the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions across the Welsh economy.

But, of course, for targets to be meaningful, they must be set on the basis of the best available scientific evidence and must be accompanied by actions to meet them. That's why I receive advice from the UK CCC, the independent statutory advisory body made up of experts in the field of climate science, economics, behavioural science and business. I mentioned I'd received the advice from the committee that was asked for by me, the UK Government and the Scottish Government, and that was in relation to setting a net-zero emissions target for the UK and our contribution to that goal. I've accepted their advice, I've committed to legislate next year to increase Wales's emissions reduction target from 80 per cent to 95 per cent by 2050, in line with the achievement of a net-zero target for the UK.

Of course, the petitioners ask us to go further and set a net-zero target for Wales in advance of that date. So, the response of Welsh Government to that call is to say: we, too, recognise the need to go further. That's why we accepted the advice, and when we did that, we signalled our ambition to develop a net-zero target for Wales. So, we now need to work with the UK CCC, and with other stakeholders across Wales, to identify the ways in which a more ambitious target can be met. [Interruption.] Yes.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Gadeirydd. Rwy'n falch iawn o ymateb ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru. Rydym yn derbyn y cynnig ac yn nodi’r ddeiseb, ac rwy'n ddiolchgar hefyd i'r miloedd o bobl a lofnododd y ddeiseb a'r nifer fwy a roddodd gymaint o sylw i'r mater hollbwysig hwn yn yr wythnosau diwethaf.

Ddiwedd mis Ebrill, fel y nodwyd, cyhoeddais argyfwng newid hinsawdd ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru. Yn ddiweddarach yr un wythnos, pleidleisiodd y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hwn o blaid datganiad o'r fath a hwy oedd y Senedd gyntaf yn y byd i wneud hynny. Rwyf wedi egluro'r rhesymau pam y gwnaethom hynny sawl gwaith yn y lle hwn, ond fe wnaf eu hailadrodd am fy mod yn credu ei fod yn bwysig iawn ac rwyf hefyd am adrodd ar yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd ers hynny.

Felly, nod y datganiad oedd symbylu pobl, sefydliadau, busnesau i weithredu hefyd, ac rwyf am roi ychydig o enghreifftiau. Soniais mewn cwestiynau yn gynharach y prynhawn yma fod sawl awdurdod lleol bellach wedi datgan argyfwng hinsawdd ynghyd â nifer o gynghorau tref, a chredaf fod y mwyafrif ohonynt wedi dweud eu bod wedi gwneud hyn yn dilyn ein harweiniad ni. Busnesau hefyd, ac roeddwn yn falch iawn fod y busnesau sy'n aelodau o gyngor economaidd fy nghyd-Aelod, Gweinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth, wedi gofyn i mi fynychu'r cyfarfod diweddaraf i wrando ar yr hyn y maent am ei wneud i helpu i liniaru newid hinsawdd. Felly, rwy'n credu ei fod wedi cael yr effaith roeddem ei heisiau o ran symbylu pobl, ond wrth gwrs, mae llawer mwy i'w wneud.

Credaf fod lefel y gefnogaeth gyhoeddus i'r ymgyrch argyfwng hinsawdd yn adlewyrchu'r awydd i wleidyddion ddweud y gwir am y sefyllfa, ac nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru dan unrhyw gamargraff ynglŷn â’r peryglon a wynebwn yn ogystal â'r atebion sydd o fewn ein cyrraedd. Bydd angen i bob Gweinidog edrych ar eu polisïau. Rwyf wedi dweud bod y cynllun cyflawni carbon isel—a buaswn yn annog pob Aelod i ddarllen y cynllun hwnnw—mae ganddo 100 o bolisïau ac argymhellion, ac weithiau, rwy’n credu efallai na chafodd ei ddarllen yn ddigon manwl. Fe'i cyflwynwyd gennym ym mis Mawrth, ond er mai ym mis Mawrth y cafodd ei gyflwyno, rwyf wedi gofyn i swyddogion ei adolygu yng ngoleuni'r cyngor a gefais gan bwyllgor newid hinsawdd y DU.

Felly, ochr yn ochr â hynny, rwyf hefyd yn edrych ar reoli tir yn gynaliadwy. Yn wahanol i Blaid Cymru, rwy'n credu y dylem symud oddi wrth gynlluniau taliadau sylfaenol oherwydd rwy'n credu y bydd yr argymhellion sydd gennym, sy’n gwobrwyo canlyniadau amgylcheddol, sy’n gwobrwyo cynhyrchu bwyd yn gynaliadwy, yn helpu gyda'r allyriadau carbon amaethyddol, ac rwy'n falch iawn o weld y ffordd y cynhaliodd Undeb Cenedlaethol yr Amaethwyr gynhadledd yn ddiweddar ar gynhyrchu bwyd a rheoli tir yn gynaliadwy, ac maent wedi cyflwyno argymhellion ar gyfer bod yn garbon niwtral erbyn 2040, ddeng mlynedd yn gynt na ni. Felly, rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn inni edrych ar yr argymhelliad hwnnw hefyd.

Mae Maes Awyr Caerdydd wedi'i daflu ataf lawer gwaith. Fe'i taflwyd ataf eto heddiw. Dylwn ddweud, unwaith eto: darllenwch y cyngor gan Bwyllgor y DU ar Newid Hinsawdd. Yn wahanol i unrhyw wlad arall yn y DU, rwy’n credu, mae ein cyllidebau carbon yn cynnwys yr holl allyriadau o awyrennau yng Nghymru, sef yr holl deithiau awyr domestig a rhyngwladol. Rwy'n credu mai ni yw'r unig wlad i wneud hynny. Felly, nid yw Pwyllgor y DU ar Newid Hinsawdd wedi rhagdybio unrhyw ostyngiad mewn allyriadau o deithiau awyr rhyngwladol sy'n deillio o weithredu polisi unochrog Cymru neu'r DU.

Rydym yn cytuno â'r deisebwyr fod yn rhaid i ni sicrhau bod pob polisi yn y presennol a’r dyfodol yn gydnaws â’r angen i osgoi newid hinsawdd a chwalfa ecolegol bellach, a chredaf fod y ddau Aelod Llafur a siaradodd wedi cyfeirio at hynny. Rhoddwyd ein Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015 a'n Deddf yr Amgylchedd (Cymru) 2016 ar waith gyda golwg ar yr union ddiben hwnnw. Mae Deddf yr amgylchedd, er enghraifft, yn gosod dyletswyddau cyfreithiol ar Weinidogion Cymru a chyrff cyhoeddus i gynnal a gwella bioamrywiaeth. Ceir gofyniad iddynt gynhyrchu eu hadroddiad cyntaf ar sut y maent yn cyflawni eu dyletswydd erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn hon, ac mae Deddf yr amgylchedd hefyd yn cynnwys targedau cyfreithiol rwymol ar gyfer lleihau allyriadau nwyon tŷ gwydr ar draws economi Cymru.

Ond wrth gwrs, er mwyn i dargedau fod yn ystyrlon, rhaid eu gosod ar sail y dystiolaeth wyddonol orau sydd ar gael, a rhaid iddynt gael eu hategu gan gamau gweithredu er mwyn eu cyrraedd. Dyna pam rwy'n derbyn cyngor gan Bwyllgor y DU ar Newid yn yr Hinsawdd, y corff cynghori statudol annibynnol a ffurfiwyd o arbenigwyr ym maes gwyddoniaeth hinsawdd, economeg, gwyddor ymddygiad a busnes. Soniais fy mod wedi cael y cyngor gan y pwyllgor y gofynnodd Lywodraeth y DU, Llywodraeth yr Alban a minnau amdano, ac roedd yn ymwneud â phennu targed allyriadau sero net ar gyfer y DU a'n cyfraniad at y nod hwnnw. Rwyf wedi derbyn eu cyngor, rwyf wedi ymrwymo i ddeddfu y flwyddyn nesaf i gynyddu targed lleihau allyriadau Cymru o 80 y cant i 95 y cant erbyn 2050, yn unol â chyflawniad targed sero net ar gyfer y DU.

Wrth gwrs, mae'r deisebwyr yn gofyn i ni fynd ymhellach a gosod targed sero net ar gyfer Cymru cyn y dyddiad hwnnw. Felly, ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i'r alwad honno yw dweud: rydym ninnau hefyd yn cydnabod yr angen i fynd ymhellach. Dyna pam ein bod wedi derbyn y cyngor, a phan wnaethom hynny, nodasom ein huchelgais i ddatblygu targed sero net i Gymru. Felly, nawr mae angen i ni weithio gyda Phwyllgor y DU ar Newid Hinsawdd, a chyda rhanddeiliaid eraill ledled Cymru, i nodi'r ffyrdd y gellir cyrraedd targed mwy uchelgeisiol. [Torri ar draws.] Iawn.

17:50

I wonder if I might just ask for a point of clarification. With that net-zero ambition, is that net zero for Wales or is that allowing for international offsetting and paying other countries who could reduce carbon dioxide emissions more cheaply than us?

Tybed a gaf fi ofyn am eglurhad. Gyda'r uchelgais sero net, a yw'r sero net hwnnw ar gyfer Cymru neu a yw’n caniatáu ar gyfer gwrthbwyso rhyngwladol a thalu gwledydd eraill a allai leihau allyriadau carbon deuocsid yn rhatach na ni?

That was for Wales, but we are taking advice on the latter point that you made also.

We share the view expressed by the petitioners that Welsh citizens must have a central role in bringing forward new ideas and initiatives. Where groups of citizens come together to drive action on climate change, this Government will listen and work with them to make it happen. Stepping up our efforts to tackle climate change means we must foster a new collaboration across our society and our economy. Everyone, and that includes every Assembly Member, has a role to play.

There are many ways for citizens to contribute to this agenda through engaging with us as their Assembly Members, of course with their local councils, or driving change amongst businesses through the consumer choices they make. There are Welsh Government initiatives focused on supporting citizens to access the opportunities and resources to take action locally, such as our eco-schools initiative and our enabling natural resources and well-being grant schemes. So, our message to Welsh citizens is this: if you share our determination to tackle the climate and ecological crises, and if you want to put forward your ideas, there has never been a better time than now.

Roedd hwnnw ar gyfer Cymru, ond rydym yn cymryd cyngor ar y pwynt olaf a wnaethoch hefyd.

Rydym yn rhannu'r farn a fynegwyd gan y deisebwyr fod yn rhaid i ddinasyddion Cymru gael rôl ganolog yn cyflwyno syniadau a chynlluniau newydd. Pan fydd grwpiau o ddinasyddion yn dod at ei gilydd i ysgogi gweithredu ar newid hinsawdd, bydd y Llywodraeth hon yn gwrando ac yn gweithio gyda hwy i wneud iddo ddigwydd. Mae cynyddu ein hymdrechion i fynd i'r afael â newid hinsawdd yn golygu bod yn rhaid i ni feithrin cydweithrediad newydd ar draws ein cymdeithas a'n heconomi. Mae gan bawb ran i’w chwarae, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys pob Aelod Cynulliad.

Ceir llawer o ffyrdd i ddinasyddion gyfrannu at yr agenda hon drwy ymgysylltu â ni fel eu Haelodau Cynulliad, gyda'u cynghorau lleol wrth gwrs, neu drwy ysgogi newid ymhlith busnesau drwy'r dewisiadau a wnânt fel defnyddwyr. Ceir mentrau Llywodraeth Cymru sy’n canolbwyntio ar gynorthwyo dinasyddion i fanteisio ar y cyfleoedd a'r adnoddau i weithredu'n lleol, fel ein menter eco-ysgolion a'n cynllun grantiau galluogi adnoddau naturiol a llesiant. Felly, ein neges i ddinasyddion Cymru yw hon: os ydych chi'n rhannu ein penderfyniad i fynd i'r afael â'r argyfwng hinsawdd a'r argyfwng ecolegol, ac os ydych am gyflwyno eich syniadau, ni fu erioed amser gwell i wneud hynny na nawr.

Diolch, Weinidog. A galwaf ar Janet Finch-Saunders i ymateb i'r ddadl.

Thank you, Minister. And I call on Janet Finch-Saunders to reply to the debate.

Thank you, chair. Thank you, first of all, to the Members and, of course, obviously, to the Minister for responding to this, and I'll just touch on some of the points that have actually further added to this debate.

Llyr Gruffydd was quite right to point out increased temperatures and a real emphasis on the fact that a 2 per cent increase would actually be catastrophic—drought and even war that destroy, and the destruction of our ecosystems. Mark Reckless was actually quite right, also, to raise questions about how that net-zero figure equates, and what I can tell you is that the UK Government, in their advice, published in May 2009, state that while they recommend that the UK and Scotland should set a net-zero target by 2050 for the UK, 2045 for Scotland, it recommended that the Welsh Government should legislate for at least a 95 per cent reduction in all greenhouse gas emissions against the 1990 baseline by 2050. The new target could enter legislation in 2020, alongside Wales's third carbon budget. And it says:

'This target represents Wales's fair contribution to the UK target and hence to the Paris Agreement. It does not imply lower policy ambition or effort in Wales, but reflects the large share of agriculture emissions in Wales and lower access to suitable sites to store captured CO₂.'

The Minister has actually gone further and put:

'In view of this and the declaration of a climate emergency following publication of the plan, we believe whilst accepting the CCC advice—',

the UK Government,

'we must go further. Therefore, on behalf of the Welsh Government I am declaring our ambition today to bring forward a target for Wales to achieve net zero emissions no later than 2050.'

So, there is clarification needed, you're quite right to point that out, as to how that net-zero figure—what it means.

Neil McEvoy highlighted air pollution. We're now seeing more children with asthma, and I really liked you calling for a greening of public infrastructure—a really good point.

Jenny Rathbone AM on the need for metro systems—we simply cannot afford any more carbon emissions, and you are quite right to point out that as we move forward with our house building—that too must encompass and realise the responsibility that that has to play and its part in reducing our carbon emissions. I've got to be honest, I really liked your point of 12 years to save the world. We're not talking 2050 here, we are talking not that far away.

So, I really appreciate all the comments, and, of course, Mandy, you also made some extremely good points about the public strength of feeling, not just Extinction Rebellion, but also, too, the fact that children are now so aware in our schools—we cannot let them down as politicians.

Mike Hedges, of course—I liked the point that you actually said about how we are actually facing—and it's not a word I can say really easily—apocalypse. But that actually does, in one word, for me, size up, really, what today's debate is about and how we really do need to move forward with this.

Someone said to me—it was a child at an event I went to. A child said to me, 'Why do we call it climate change? Change is something you do over a period of time. We really are now facing a climate emergency.' And I thought from a little girl came such wise words.

So, it only remains now for me, chairman, to thank Matthew Misiak, Extension Rebellion, and every single person who signed the petition and for actually having confidence in the petition system that their concerns, their views, would be aired, debated and discussed, with comments forthcoming from the Minister here in the National Assembly for Wales. So, thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch, gadeirydd. Diolch yn gyntaf oll i'r Aelodau ac wrth gwrs, i'r Gweinidog, am ymateb i hyn, ac fe gyffyrddaf â rhai o'r pwyntiau sydd wedi ychwanegu ymhellach at y ddadl hon.

Roedd Llyr Gruffydd yn llygad ei le pan dynnodd sylw at dymereddau cynyddol a phwyslais gwirioneddol ar y ffaith y byddai cynnydd o 2 y cant yn drychinebus mewn gwirionedd—sychder, a rhyfeloedd dinistriol hyd yn oed, a dinistr ein hecosystemau. Roedd Mark Reckless yn hollol iawn mewn gwirionedd hefyd i godi cwestiynau ynglŷn â sut y mae'r ffigur sero net hwn yn cymharu, a’r hyn y gallaf ei ddweud wrthych yw bod Llywodraeth y DU, yn eu cyngor a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Mai 2009, yn argymell y dylai’r DU a'r Alban osod targed sero net erbyn 2050 ar gyfer y DU, 2045 ar gyfer yr Alban, ond roeddent yn nodi eu hargymhelliad hefyd y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ddeddfu ar gyfer gostyngiad o 95 y cant fan lleiaf ar gyfer yr holl allyriadau nwyon tŷ gwydr yn erbyn llinell sylfaen 1990 erbyn 2050. Gellid rhoi deddfwriaeth mewn grym ar gyfer y targed newydd yn 2020, ochr yn ochr â thrydedd cyllideb garbon Cymru. Ac mae'n dweud:

Mae'r targed hwn yn cynrychioli cyfraniad teg Cymru at darged y DU, a Chytundeb Paris yn sgil hynny. Nid yw'n awgrymu bod llai o uchelgais neu ymdrech o ran polisi yng Nghymru, ond mae'n adlewyrchu'r gyfran fawr o allyriadau amaethyddol yng Nghymru a llai o fynediad at safleoedd addas i ddal a storio CO₂.

Mae'r Gweinidog wedi mynd ymhellach mewn gwirionedd ac wedi dweud

O ystyried hyn a’r datganiad argyfwng hinsawdd yn sgil cyhoeddi'r cynllun, er ein bod yn derbyn cyngor y Pwyllgor ar Newid Hinsawdd—

pwyllgor Llywodraeth y DU,

credwn fod yn rhaid i ni fynd ymhellach. Felly, ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru, rwy'n datgan ein huchelgais heddiw i gyflwyno targed i Gymru gyflawni allyriadau sero net erbyn 2050 fan bellaf.

Felly, mae angen eglurhad, rydych yn llygad eich lle i ddweud hynny, ynglŷn â sut y mae'r ffigur sero net hwnnw—beth y mae'n ei olygu.

Tynnodd Neil McEvoy sylw at lygredd aer. Rydym bellach yn gweld mwy o blant ag asthma arnynt, ac roeddwn yn falch eich bod wedi galw am wyrddu seilwaith cyhoeddus, pwynt da iawn.

Jenny Rathbone AC a'r angen am systemau metro—ni allwn fforddio mwy o allyriadau carbon, ac rydych yn llygad eich lle i nodi hynny wrth inni symud ymlaen i adeiladu tai—rhaid i hynny hefyd gwmpasu a gwireddu'r cyfrifoldeb sydd ynghlwm wrth hynny a'i ran yn y gwaith o leihau ein hallyriadau carbon. Mae'n rhaid i mi fod yn onest, roeddwn i'n hoff iawn o'ch pwynt ynglŷn â 12 mlynedd i achub y byd. Nid ydym yn siarad am 2050 yma, rydym yn siarad am amser nad yw mor bell i ffwrdd â hynny.

Felly, rwy'n gwerthfawrogi'r holl sylwadau'n fawr, ac wrth gwrs, Mandy, fe wnaethoch chi bwyntiau da iawn hefyd am gryfder teimladau'r cyhoedd, nid Extinction Rebellion yn unig, ond hefyd y ffaith bod plant bellach mor ymwybodol yn ein hysgolion—fel gwleidyddion, ni allwn eu siomi.

Mike Hedges, wrth gwrs—hoffais y pwynt a wnaethoch ynglŷn â sut rydym yn wynebu—ac nid yw'n air y gallaf ei ddweud yn hawdd iawn—apocalyps. Ond mewn gwirionedd, mae hynny i mi’n crisialu mewn un gair yr hyn y mae'r ddadl heddiw'n ymwneud ag ef a sut y mae angen i ni symud ymlaen gyda hyn.

Dywedodd rhywun wrthyf—plentyn mewn digwyddiad y bûm ynddo. Dywedodd plentyn wrthyf, 'Pam rydym yn ei alw'n newid hinsawdd? Mae newid yn rhywbeth rydych chi'n ei wneud dros gyfnod o amser. Rydym bellach yn wynebu argyfwng hinsawdd.' Ac roeddwn i'n meddwl mor ddoeth oedd y geiriau hynny gan ferch fach.

Felly, yr unig beth sydd ar ôl gennyf i’w wneud, gadeirydd, yw diolch i Matthew Misiak, Extinction Rebellion, a phob unigolyn a lofnododd y ddeiseb ac am gael hyder yn y system ddeisebau y byddai eu pryderon, eu safbwyntiau, yn cael eu gwyntyllu a'u trafod, gan ennyn sylwadau gan y Gweinidog yma yng Nghynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru. Felly, diolch. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

17:55

Diolch yn fawr. Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Thank you very much. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

8. Dadl Plaid Brexit: Gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd
8. Brexit Party Debate: Leaving the European Union

Detholwyd y gwelliant canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Darren Millar. 

The following amendment has been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Darren Millar.

Yr eitem nesaf yw dadl Plaid Brexit: gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, ac rwy'n galw ar—pwy sy'n dechrau gyda ni? Mark Reckless. Mae'n ddrwg gyda fi. Galwaf ar Mark Reckless i wneud y cynnig.

The next item is the Brexit Party debate on leaving the European Union, and I call on—who's starting the debate? Mark Reckless. I'm sorry. I call on Mark Reckless to move the motion.

Cynnig NDM7071 Caroline Jones

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

1. Yn nodi bod Cymru wedi pleidleisio i adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd.

2. Yn gresynu na wnaeth y DU adael yr UE ar 29 Mawrth 2019, er gwaethaf sawl addewid gan Lywodraeth y DU i wneud hynny, a bod 498 o ASau wedi pleidleisio i gychwyn proses Erthygl 50 i adael erbyn y dyddiad hwnnw.

3. Yn gwrthod unrhyw estyniad i aelodaeth y DU o'r UE ar ôl 31 Hydref 2019.

4. Yn nodi y gallai gadael heb fargen leihau costau bwyd, dillad ac esgidiau yn sylweddol, ac y bydd yn arbed £39 biliwn i drethdalwyr y DU.

5. Yn penderfynu y dylai'r DU adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd heb gytundeb ar 31 Hydref 2019 oni bai bod yr UE, o leiaf:

a) yn cynnig cytundeb masnach rydd cynhwysfawr i'r DU; a

b) yn derbyn trefniadau amgen yn lle protocol Gogledd Iwerddon.

Motion NDM7071 Caroline Jones

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes that Wales voted to leave the European Union.

2. Regrets that the UK did not leave the EU on 29 March 2019, despite repeated promises to do so by the UK Government, and 498 MPs having voted to trigger the Article 50 process to leave by that date.

3. Rejects any extension of the UK’s membership of the EU beyond 31 October 2019.

4. Notes that leaving without a deal could reduce the cost of food, clothing and footwear significantly, and will save the UK taxpayer £39 billion.

5. Resolves that the UK should leave the European Union without a deal on the 31 October 2019 unless the EU, at least:

a) offers the UK a comprehensive free trade agreement; and

b) accepts alternative arrangements in place of the Northern Ireland protocol.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Thank you, chair, for identifying me, and I'm grateful to have this time to raise the Brexit Party's first debate in the Welsh Assembly, in which we note that Wales voted to leave the European Union. Now, ideally, that shouldn't be necessary, but we voted to leave the European Union, not if the EU agrees or subject to getting a great deal. These are attempted conditions put in in arrears by remainers who don't want to accept the result of the referendum. Now, we regret that the UK did not leave the EU on 29 March this year, despite repeated promises to do so by the UK Government and 498 MPs who voted to trigger the article 50 process to leave on that date with or without a deal.

I also regret the Conservative amendment to our motion, not least that it begins with 'Delete all', and to the extent we're able to communicate these things, I trust that many of their erstwhile supporters will note that that is their intent. The substantive part of what they want to add is, at point 1, it's terribly important we put in the date of June 2016, apparently, and then, in point 2, it's terribly important that we take out the date of 29 March. Whether this is just to give an excuse to amend the motion having deleted all, or whether there's some terrible importance about why we need a date on one and not the other, perhaps we will hear in due course. But what I think is so important about this is that we should leave the EU now on 31 October this year. Of course, that's the third deadline; we were given 12 April as an intervening one as well. It's concerning to see the progress of this Conservative leadership election campaign, because we had one candidate who was very clear—Dominic Raab—that we would leave the EU on 31 October, with or without a deal, come what may. He could not have been clearer on that. But unfortunately, the fact that he got only 30 votes, compared to 37 for Rory Stewart, tells us, I think, much about the state of the Conservative parliamentary party and the relative weights of different factions within it. Now, of course we have as the strong leader of this field Boris Johnson. There has been some suggestion that he also says we must leave on 31 October, or that he would like to, but it's not quite clear that he will. He's done very few interviews. I heard the one he did on The World at One, and when asked about what he was saying about that, he said that he thought it was very important we shouldn't signal at this time that we might not leave on that date. And then last night, in another debate, he was asked would he rule out anything except leaving on that day. He refused to do so, and then he said it was 'eminently feasible' to leave on 31 October.

So, I mean, in our party, but, I think more importantly, amongst his European negotiators, it looks as if Boris Johnson isn't that serious about leaving on 31 October, and may well—. [Interruption.] That may or may not be the case. But may well look to change that date—look for yet another extension. I think the fundamental problem, at least, that the Conservative Party has—and I'll turn to the Labour Party in due course—is that, for 29 March, they were faced with a choice between no deal and no Brexit, and they chose no Brexit. I think they begin to understand the potential electoral consequences of that, but I think, probably, at the end of March, they could have left with no deal if they had a Prime Minister and a Cabinet and, potentially, a parliamentary party, that was sufficiently steeled to do so. Unfortunately, that was not the case, and each time it gets postponed, each time that date gets moved back, it becomes less likely that we will leave, and, of course, that is the intention of so many on the Labour side who don't want us to leave the European Union, campaigned for 'remain', purported after the result to accept and respect the result, but have ever since, and increasingly obviously, agitated to reverse the result of that referendum, to block Brexit and to deny democracy.

We also note some of the consequences of leaving without a deal, which isn't our preferred option. However, we have come to a pass where it is increasingly likely because of the failure of the Conservative Government to leave and the success of the Labour Party in blocking our leaving. Were we to leave with no deal, it's important to realise that we would not owe the European Union £39 billion. I get incredibly frustrated about reading so much from the 'remain' tendency about how no-one would ever lend anything to us again and we'd destroy our international credit rating. This is not a sovereign debt. We have no obligation to pay anything beyond what is specified by the article 50 process, the treaty that specifies how a member state may withdraw from the European Union. You remain liable for all your obligations—all the purported benefits of remaining, partially, arguably, offsetting those—for the notice period of two years, but after those two years, absent an agreement, the treaties cease to apply. We will not owe them money. We will save that £39 billion quid. Indeed, we should be saving some of that £39 billion already.

Diolch am fy ngalw, gadeirydd, ac rwy'n ddiolchgar am yr amser hwn i gyflwyno dadl gyntaf Plaid Brexit yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, lle rydym yn nodi bod Cymru wedi pleidleisio dros adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Nawr, yn ddelfrydol, ni ddylai hynny fod yn angenrheidiol, ond fe wnaethom bleidleisio dros adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, nid os yw'r UE yn cytuno neu'n amodol ar gael cytundeb gwych. Mae'r rhain yn amodau y ceisir eu gosod yn ôl-weithredol gan y rhai sydd eisiau aros ac sydd ddim eisiau derbyn canlyniad y refferendwm. Nawr, rydym yn gresynu na wnaeth y DU adael yr UE ar 29 Mawrth eleni, er gwaethaf addewidion dro ar ôl tro gan Lywodraeth y DU y byddent yn gwneud hynny a’r 498 AS a bleidleisiodd dros sbarduno proses erthygl 50 i adael ar y dyddiad hwnnw gyda neu heb gytundeb.

Rwy’n gresynu hefyd at welliant y Ceidwadwyr i'n cynnig, yn enwedig gan ei fod yn dechrau gyda 'Dileu popeth', ac i'r graddau y gallwn gyfleu'r pethau hyn, hyderaf y bydd llawer o'u cefnogwyr yn y gorffennol yn nodi mai dyna eu bwriad. Prif ran yr hyn y maent am ei ychwanegu yw, ar bwynt 1, ei bod hi'n bwysig iawn ein bod yn rhoi dyddiad Mehefin 2016 i mewn, mae'n debyg, ac yna ym mhwynt 2, mae'n hynod o bwysig ein bod yn tynnu’r dyddiad 29 Mawrth allan. Cawn glywed maes o law efallai pa un a yw hyn ond er mwyn rhoi esgus i ddiwygio'r cynnig ar ôl dileu'r cyfan neu am fod rhyw reswm ofnadwy o bwysig pam fod angen dyddiad arnom ar un ac nid y llall. Ond yr hyn y credaf sydd mor bwysig am hyn yw y dylem adael yr UE ar 31 Hydref eleni. Wrth gwrs, dyna'r trydydd dyddiad gadael; cawsom 12 Ebrill fel un yn y cyfamser hefyd. Mae'n ofid gweld yr ymgyrch etholiadol hon am arweinyddiaeth y Ceidwadwyr yn mynd rhagddi, oherwydd roedd gennym un ymgeisydd a oedd yn dweud yn glir iawn—Dominic Raab—y byddem yn gadael yr UE ar 31 Hydref, gyda neu heb gytundeb, doed a ddelo. Ni allai fod wedi bod yn gliriach ar hynny. Ond yn anffodus, mae'r ffaith na chafodd ond 30 o bleidleisiau, o'i gymharu â 37 i Rory Stewart, yn dweud llawer wrthym, rwy'n meddwl, am gyflwr y blaid seneddol Geidwadol a phwysau cymharol gwahanol garfanau o’i mewn. Nawr, wrth gwrs, mae Boris Johnson ymhell o flaen y gweddill. Cafwyd awgrym ei fod ef hefyd yn dweud bod yn rhaid i ni adael ar 31 Hydref, neu y byddai'n hoffi gwneud hynny, ond nid yw'n gwbl glir y bydd yn gwneud hynny. Ychydig iawn o gyfweliadau a wnaeth. Clywais yr un a wnaeth ar The World at One, a phan ofynnwyd iddo beth oedd ganddo i’w ddweud am hynny, dywedodd ei fod yn credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn na ddylem ddynodi ar hyn o bryd efallai na fyddem yn gadael ar y dyddiad hwnnw. Ac yna neithiwr, mewn dadl arall, gofynnwyd iddo a fyddai'n diystyru unrhyw beth heblaw gadael ar y diwrnod hwnnw. Gwrthododd wneud hynny, ac yna dywedodd ei bod yn 'eithriadol o ddichonadwy' y gallem adael ar 31 Hydref.

Felly, hynny yw, yn ein plaid ni, ond yn bwysicach fyth, yn fy marn i, ymhlith ei negodwyr Ewropeaidd, mae'n ymddangos nad yw Boris Johnson mor ddifrifol â hynny ynglŷn â gadael ar 31 Hydref, ac mae'n ddigon posibl—. [Torri ar draws.] Gall hynny fod yn wir neu beidio. Ond gallai’n hawdd ystyried newid y dyddiad hwnnw—edrych am estyniad arall. Credaf mai'r broblem sylfaenol, o leiaf, yw fod y Blaid Geidwadol wedi—ac fe drof at y Blaid Lafur maes o law—ar gyfer 29 Mawrth, roeddent yn wynebu dewis rhwng dim cytundeb a dim Brexit, ac fe wnaethant ddewis dim Brexit. Credaf eu bod yn dechrau deall canlyniadau etholiadol posibl hynny, ond rwy'n credu, ar ddiwedd mis Mawrth yn ôl pob tebyg, y gallent fod wedi gadael heb gytundeb pe bai ganddynt Brif Weinidog a Chabinet, a phlaid seneddol o bosibl, a oedd yn ddigon cryf i wneud hynny. Yn anffodus, ni ddigwyddodd hynny, a phob tro y caiff ei ohirio, bob tro y caiff y dyddiad hwnnw ei ymestyn, mae'n dod yn llai tebygol y byddwn yn gadael, ac wrth gwrs dyna yw bwriad cynifer ar ochr Llafur nad ydynt eisiau inni adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, y rhai a ymgyrchodd dros 'aros', a honni ar ôl y canlyniad eu bod yn derbyn a pharchu'r canlyniad, ond sydd byth ers hynny, ac yn fwyfwy amlwg, wedi ymgyrchu dros wrthdroi canlyniad y refferendwm hwnnw, rhwystro Brexit a gwadu democratiaeth.

Rydym hefyd yn nodi rhai o ganlyniadau gadael heb gytundeb, nad yw'n opsiwn a ffefrir gennym. Fodd bynnag, rydym wedi dod i fan lle mae'n fwyfwy tebygol, oherwydd methiant y Llywodraeth Geidwadol i adael a llwyddiant y Blaid Lafur i’n rhwystro rhag gadael. Pe baem yn gadael heb gytundeb, mae'n bwysig sylweddoli na fyddai arnom £39 biliwn i'r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Rwy'n teimlo'n rhwystredig iawn wrth ddarllen cymaint gan y rhai sydd o blaid 'aros' ynglŷn â sut na fyddai neb byth yn benthyg unrhyw beth i ni eto ac y byddem yn dinistrio ein statws credyd rhyngwladol. Nid dyled sofran yw hon. Nid oes rhwymedigaeth arnom i dalu unrhyw beth y tu hwnt i'r hyn a bennir gan broses erthygl 50, y cytuniad sy'n nodi sut y gall aelod-wladwriaeth adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Rydych yn parhau i fod yn atebol am eich holl rwymedigaethau—gyda'r holl fanteision tybiedig o aros, yn rhannol, gellid dadlau, yn gwrthbwyso'r rheini—am y cyfnod rhybudd o ddwy flynedd, ond ar ôl y ddwy flynedd hynny, heb gytundeb, mae'r cytundebau’n peidio â bod yn gymwys. Ni fydd arnom arian iddynt. Byddwn yn arbed y £39 biliwn. Yn wir, dylem fod yn arbed rhywfaint o'r £39 biliwn hwnnw eisoes. 

18:00

David Rees a gododd—

David Rees rose—

I give way to the Chair of the committee.

Fe ildiaf i Gadeirydd y pwyllgor.

I thank the Member for giving way. I listened to what he was saying, and obviously the legal case has been shown in the House of Lords—the £39 billion is not legally obliged. There is a question of a moral requirement. But you just mentioned there are some obligations. Have you yet got a figure as to what those obligations are, regarding the amount we actually are required to pay because of the programmes we have submitted to? That's going to come out of the £39 billion that you're talking about.

Diolch i'r Aelod am ildio. Gwrandewais ar yr hyn roedd yn ei ddweud, ac yn amlwg dangoswyd yn Nhŷ'r Arglwyddi fod yr achos cyfreithiol—nid oes rhwymedigaeth gyfreithiol i dalu’r £39 biliwn. Mae yna gwestiwn ynghylch gofyniad moesol. Ond rydych chi newydd grybwyll bod yna rai rhwymedigaethau. A ydych wedi cael ffigur ar gyfer y rhwymedigaethau hynny, o ran y swm y mae'n ofynnol i ni ei dalu oherwydd y rhaglenni rydym wedi ymrwymo iddynt? Daw hynny allan o'r £39 biliwn rydych chi'n sôn amdano.

18:05

Yes, I can give the number precisely to the gentleman. It is nil. After the two-year notice period expires, our obligations under the treaty expire. Just as when we joined the European Union, they didn't compensate us for a notional amount for the pension contributions for people who had been working for them but not for us before we joined. When someone leaves a company, you have a contractual arrangement. In international law, you have an international treaty, based on the treaty of Rome and its successor treaties. They have provided, since the Lisbon treaty, a specified treaty pre-agreed mechanism for leaving, which is that you give two years' notice under article 50. The treaties then cease to apply. You have no further financial obligation, as was correctly observed by the House of Lords.

Of course, if you want to stay in some programmes and participate in them, you will negotiate a price for doing so. But the idea that we owe this sum and that we are breaching a sovereign debt obligation is absolutely ludicrous. It comes from remainers who just seem to like the idea of giving their constituents' money to overseas organisations. We don't owe this money. Whether we want to pay something in return for something else is an entirely different matter.

I also note that, in terms of trade, should we leave the European Union without a deal—in a 'no deal' or a WTO rules scenario—we are not obligated to impose these large tariffs on particular sectors. The idea that food prices will suddenly rise massively presumes that we would choose to apply the same tariff that the EU does to non-EU goods. Now, it is correct that if we are on WTO rules, we need to be non-discriminatory. So, whatever the tariff is, it would be applied on an equal basis to the EU, as outside the EU, if there isn't a trade agreement or if there isn't an article 24 GATT arrangement. But that tariff does not have to be the maximum amount that the EU is allowed to apply, according to its WTO schedules.

Gallaf roi’r union ffigur i'r gŵr bonheddig, sef dim. Ar ôl i'r cyfnod rhybudd o ddwy flynedd ddod i ben, daw ein rhwymedigaethau o dan y cytuniad i ben. Yn union fel pan wnaethom ymuno â'r Undeb Ewropeaidd, pan na wnaethant hwy ein digolledu am swm tybiannol ar gyfer cyfraniadau pensiwn pobl a oedd wedi bod yn gweithio iddynt ond nid i ni cyn i ni ymuno. Pan fydd rhywun yn gadael cwmni, mae gennych gytundeb contract. Mewn cyfraith ryngwladol, mae gennych gytuniad rhyngwladol, yn seiliedig ar gytuniad Rhufain a'r cytuniadau a’i holynodd. Ers cytuniad Lisbon, maent wedi darparu mecanwaith cytuniad penodol a gytunwyd ymlaen llaw ar gyfer gadael, sef eich bod yn rhoi dwy flynedd o rybudd dan erthygl 50. Nid yw'r cytuniadau’n gymwys wedyn. Nid oes arnoch unrhyw rwymedigaethau ariannol pellach, fel y nodwyd yn gywir gan Dŷ'r Arglwyddi.

Wrth gwrs, os ydych chi eisiau aros mewn rhai rhaglenni a chymryd rhan ynddynt, byddwch yn negodi pris am wneud hynny. Ond mae'r syniad fod arnom y swm hwn a'n bod yn torri rhwymedigaeth dyled sofran yn gwbl hurt. Daw gan bobl sydd am aros, ac sydd i’w gweld yn hoffi'r syniad o roi arian eu hetholwyr i sefydliadau tramor. Nid oes arnom yr arian hwn. Mae’r cwestiwn a ydym am dalu rhywbeth yn gyfnewid am rywbeth arall yn fater cwbl wahanol.

Nodaf hefyd, o ran masnach, os ydym yn gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd heb gytundeb—mewn senario ‘dim bargen’ neu reolau Sefydliad Masnach y Byd—nid oes rheidrwydd arnom i osod y tariffau mawr hyn ar sectorau penodol. Mae'r syniad y bydd prisiau bwyd yn codi i’r entrychion yn sydyn yn rhagdybio y byddem yn dewis cymhwyso'r un tariff y mae'r UE yn ei gymhwyso ar gyfer nwyddau nad ydynt yn dod o'r UE. Nawr, os ydym yn gweithredu yn ôl rheolau Sefydliad Masnach y Byd, mae’n briodol fod angen i ni fod yn anwahaniaethol. Felly, beth bynnag yw'r tariff, byddai'n cael ei gymhwyso ar sail gyfartal i'r UE â’r hyn a fyddai y tu allan i'r UE os na cheir cytundeb masnach neu os na cheir trefniant erthygl 24 Cytundeb Cyffredinol ar Dariffau a Masnach (GATT). Ond nid oes rhaid i'r tariff hwnnw fod yr uchafswm y caniateir i'r UE ei osod, yn ôl ei atodlenni Sefydliad Masnach y Byd. 

David Rees a gododd—

David Rees rose—

Again, I appreciate the question that you put to me on article 24 from the GATT, which is obviously only applicable if you are in discussions on a trade agreement because it doesn't apply if you are not having those discussions. You also identified the fact that, if you are going to reduce tariffs to allow the cheaper import of trade—which, as you quite rightly point out, the UK may do—it has to be applied across all WTO members, which does mean, therefore, that you will probably have imports at a lower level and cost UK jobs. There will be imports from countries that we would have had agreements with and would have had higher tariffs, now coming in at lower tariffs and putting UK jobs at risk. Do you accept that that is a possibility as a consequence of tariffs unilaterally being reduced?

Unwaith eto, rwy’n derbyn y cwestiwn a roesoch i mi ar erthygl 24 y GATT, sy’n amlwg ond yn berthnasol os ydych chi mewn trafodaethau ar gytundeb masnach gan nad yw'n berthnasol os nad ydych yn cael y trafodaethau hynny. Hefyd, os ydych yn mynd i leihau tariffau i ganiatáu mewnforio masnach yn rhatach—rhywbeth y gallai’r DU ei wneud, fel y dywedwch yn gywir—fe nodwch fod yn rhaid eu cymhwyso ar draws holl aelodau Sefydliad Masnach y Byd, sy'n golygu felly, ei bod hi’n debygol y bydd gennych fewnforion ar lefel is ac yn arwain at golli swyddi yn y DU. Bydd mewnforion o wledydd y byddem wedi bod â chytundebau a thariffau uwch â hwy yn dod i mewn bellach ar dariffau is ac yn peryglu swyddi yn y DU. A ydych yn derbyn bod hynny'n bosibilrwydd o ganlyniad i ostwng prisiau'n unochrog?

Daeth y Llywydd i’r Gadair.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Well, it depends on what the tariff is, but the Member's position seems to be that any trade agreement is great as long as the European Union negotiates it and that we are part of it as the EU, but that any other arrangement is automatically bad, without looking at the merits of the size and the balance of the tariffs. [Interruption.] The Member says from a sedentary position that he didn't say that, and I'll accept that. But, what we do is up to us.

Essentially, the UK Government has set out a tariff schedule to apply. In some of the most sensitive sectors, what it looks to do is have a tariff to give a degree of protection to domestic producers, but one that is below the tariff that is currently set by the European Union. So, that will lead to a balance of the two effects that are identified. Some of the areas where there are high tariffs, such as on clothes, such as on footwear, except at the very high end, we don't produce any in this country, yet we have these huge tariffs to protect a limited amount of production within southern Europe, and we prevent China importing on those tariffs, where we give exemptions to some other countries. If we got rid of those tariffs on clothing and footwear, there would be a very significant reduction in cost, which would be most important for the poorest members of our communities, who spend the highest proportion of income on those goods.

If I may just move towards a conclusion, we had £172 billion of exports last year to the EU against £266 billion of imports. Were there to be tariffs on those both ways, and the weighted tariff would actually be higher on what we import than what we export, that would be a very significant amount of import substitution available to the domestic economy. As well as any short-term disruption and the long-term economic analysis that benefits free trade, in the short term, if you have moved to a situation of tariffs where you had none before with an economy where you have a massive trade deficit of £94 billion, the impact on your domestic economy in the near term in terms of demand is likely to have the positive element of the import substitution, which is very rarely discussed in this debate and needs to be set against the costs that others identify.

So, to conclude, I would encourage Members to support this motion, and we would like to get a deal if we can. Time is now short, but we should leave on 31 October with or without a deal, and if the EU wants a deal, it should offer at least what it has been prepared to offer Canada in terms of a free trade deal, not one where we have to give up Northern Ireland, or one we're locked into a customs union we can't leave without their permission.

Wel, mae'n dibynnu beth yw'r tariff, ond ymddengys mai safbwynt yr Aelod yw bod unrhyw gytundeb masnach yn wych cyn belled â bod yr Undeb Ewropeaidd yn ei negodi a’n bod yn rhan ohono fel yr UE, ond bod unrhyw drefniant arall yn ddrwg yn awtomatig, heb edrych ar rinweddau maint a chydbwysedd y tariffau. [Torri ar draws.] Dywed yr Aelod yn ei sedd nad oedd wedi dweud hynny, ac fe dderbyniaf hynny. Ond mater i ni yw’r hyn a wnawn.

Yn y bôn, mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi pennu rhestr o dariffau i'w gosod. Yn rhai o'r sectorau mwyaf sensitif, yr hyn y mae'n ceisio'i wneud yw cael tariff i roi rhywfaint o amddiffyniad i gynhyrchwyr domestig, ond un sy'n is na'r tariff a osodir ar hyn o bryd gan yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Felly, bydd hynny'n arwain at gydbwyso'r ddwy effaith a nodwyd. Mewn rhai o'r meysydd lle ceir tariffau uchel, megis dillad ac esgidiau, heblaw ym mhen uchaf y farchnad, nid ydym yn cynhyrchu dim yn y wlad hon, ac eto mae gennym dariffau anferth i ddiogelu mesur cyfyngedig o gynhyrchiant yn ne Ewrop, ac rydym yn atal Tsieina rhag mewnforio ar y tariffau hynny, lle rydym yn rhoi eithriadau i rai gwledydd eraill. Pe baem yn cael gwared ar y tariffau hynny ar ddillad ac esgidiau, byddai gostyngiad sylweddol iawn yn y gost, a byddai hynny'n fwyaf pwysig i'r rhai tlotaf yn ein cymunedau, sy'n gwario'r gyfran uchaf o incwm ar y nwyddau hynny.

Os caf dynnu tua'r terfyn, cawsom werth £172 biliwn o allforion y llynedd i'r UE yn erbyn £266 biliwn o fewnforion. Pe bai tariffau'n cael eu gosod ar y rheini y ddwy ffordd, a'r tariff wedi'i bwysoli yn uwch mewn gwirionedd ar yr hyn a fewnforiwn na'r hyn a allforiwn, byddai hwnnw'n swm sylweddol iawn o gynhyrchiant yn lle mewnforio a fyddai ar gael i'r economi ddomestig. Yn ogystal ag unrhyw amharu tymor byr a'r dadansoddiad economaidd hirdymor sydd o fudd i fasnach rydd, yn y tymor byr, os ydych wedi symud i sefyllfa o dariffau lle nad oedd gennych ddim o'r blaen gydag economi lle mae gennych ddiffyg masnach enfawr o £94 biliwn, mae'r effaith ar eich economi ddomestig yn y tymor agos o ran galw yn debygol o fod ag elfen gadarnhaol cynhyrchu yn lle mewnforio, nad yw prin yn cael ei drafod yn y ddadl hon ac mae angen ei osod yn erbyn y costau y mae eraill yn eu nodi.

Felly, i gloi, hoffwn annog yr Aelodau i gefnogi'r cynnig hwn, a byddem yn hoffi cael cytundeb os gallwn. Mae amser yn brin, ond dylem adael ar 31 Hydref gyda neu heb gytundeb, ac os yw'r UE am gael cytundeb, dylai gynnig o leiaf yr hyn y bu'n barod i'w gynnig i Ganada o ran cytundeb masnach rydd, nid un lle mae'n rhaid inni ildio Gogledd Iwerddon, neu un lle rydym yn cael ein cloi i mewn i undeb tollau na allwn ei adael heb eu caniatâd hwy.

18:10

Rwyf wedi dethol un gwelliant i'r cynnig, a dwi'n galw ar Darren Millar i gynnig y gwelliant hynny a gyflwynwyd yn ei enw ei hunan. Darren Millar.

I have selected one amendment to the motion, and I call on Darren Millar to move the amendment, tabled in his own name. Darren Millar.

Gwelliant 1—Darren Millar

Dileu'r cyfan a rhoi yn ei le:

1. Yn nodi bod pobl Cymru wedi pleidleisio i adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd ym mis Mehefin 2016.

2. Yn gresynu nad yw'r Deyrnas Unedig wedi gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd eto.

3. Yn credu y dylid rhoi canlyniad y refferendwm ar waith.

Amendment 1—Darren Millar

Delete all and replace with:

1. Notes that the people of Wales voted to leave the European Union in June 2016.

2. Regrets that the United Kingdom is yet to leave the European Union.

3. Believes that the outcome of the referendum should be implemented.

Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.

Amendment 1 moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. I move the amendment. I have to say, it feels a lot like groundhog day in this Chamber. Yet another debate on Brexit when the situation outside of this Chamber remains largely unchanged since our last debate. We find ourselves yet again, as a Welsh Conservative group, between two extremes, if I can present you as this. We have the extreme of the Brexit Party, which wants to take us out on 31 October with no deal as your preference, because that's what Nigel Farage has said. He wants a clean Brexit by 31 October. He's not said that it's his aim to secure a deal. [Interruption.] Yes, happily.

Diolch, Lywydd. Rwy'n cynnig y gwelliant. Rhaid i mi ddweud, mae'n teimlo'n debyg iawn i sawl diwrnod arall yn y Siambr hon. Dadl arall ar Brexit pan nad yw'r sefyllfa y tu allan i'r Siambr hon wedi newid rhyw lawer ers ein dadl ddiwethaf. Fel grŵp y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, rydym yn sefyll unwaith eto rhwng dau begwn eithaf, os caf eich cyflwyno felly. Mae gennym begwn eithaf Plaid Brexit, sydd am fynd â ni allan ar 31 Hydref heb gytundeb fel eich hoff ddewis, gan mai dyna mae Nigel Farage wedi ei ddweud. Mae arno eisiau Brexit glân erbyn 31 Hydref. Nid yw wedi dweud mai ei nod yw sicrhau cytundeb. [Torri ar draws.] Gwnaf, â phleser.

I thank Darren Millar. Which extreme are you supporting—the Rory Stewart extreme or the Boris Johnson extreme?

Diolch i Darren Millar. Pa begwn eithafol rydych chi'n ei gefnogi—pegwn eithafol Rory Stewart neu begwn eithafol Boris Johnson?

I'll reflect on that, perhaps, later. So, we have that extreme, which has been expressed by Nigel Farage, your party leader. He's made it quite clear that his aim is a clean Brexit.

Fe wnaf fi feddwl am hynny yn nes ymlaen, efallai. Felly, mae gennym y pegwn eithafol hwnnw a fynegwyd gan Nigel Farage, arweinydd eich plaid. Mae wedi dweud yn hollol glir mai Brexit glân yw ei nod.

Will the Member give way? I'd like to say that Rory Stewart's been knocked out, so he can safely support Boris.

A wnaiff yr Aelod ildio? Rwyf am ddweud bod Rory Stewart wedi cael ei fwrw allan, felly mae'n ddiogel iddo gefnogi Boris.

As a Boris Johnson supporter who declared before today, obviously that would please me.

And on the other side we have the other extreme, who are the Brexit deniers, who only believe in democracy in a referendum when it goes their way. A group of politicians who want to go back to square one and have another referendum because they don't like what the people of Wales told them in the first one. And of course that's the very reason why we haven't left the EU as was promised on 29 March, because neither side, on those two extremes—[Interruption.] I've not made much progress. I'll take one in a few moments, if I may.

Neither of the two sides on those extremes have been able to compromise or give ground, and we hear in this Chamber time and time again that people are fed up with the uncertainty, that we've got to put an end to it all, and yet we've had the opportunity to put an end to it all. We had the opportunity with the withdrawal agreement that was negotiated, and it's the only agreement that's been negotiated between the EU and the UK, and yet your MPs, particularly Plaid and Labour MPs, voted against this thing. So, I find it extraordinary, really, that we are in this position, and the reason, if I can just put you right, we put June 2016 in the motion is that we wanted to remind people that it's been three years since that vote and it's about time we got on and delivered on the result, which was clear—people voted to leave the EU. I'll take the intervention from Helen Mary.

Fel cefnogwr Boris Johnson a wnaeth ddatgan hynny cyn heddiw, yn amlwg byddai hynny'n plesio.

Ac ar yr ochr arall mae gennym y pegwn arall, sef y rhai sy'n gwadu Brexit, ac sydd ond yn credu mewn democratiaeth mewn refferendwm pan fydd yn mynd eu ffordd hwy. Grŵp o wleidyddion sydd eisiau mynd yn ôl i'r dechrau a chael refferendwm arall am nad ydynt yn hoffi beth ddywedodd pobl Cymru wrthynt yn yr un cyntaf. Ac wrth gwrs dyna'r union reswm pam nad ydym wedi gadael yr UE fel yr addawyd ar 29 Mawrth, am nad yw'r naill ochr na'r llall, ar y ddau begwn—[Torri ar draws.] Nid wyf wedi gwneud llawer o gynnydd. Fe gymeraf un ymhen ychydig eiliadau, os caf.

Nid yw'r naill ochr na'r llall yn y pegynau eithafol hynny wedi gallu cyfaddawdu nac ildio dim, a chlywn yn y Siambr hon dro ar ôl tro fod pobl wedi blino ar yr ansicrwydd, fod yn rhaid inni roi diwedd ar y cyfan, ac eto rydym wedi cael cyfle i roi diwedd ar y cyfan. Cawsom gyfle gyda'r cytundeb ymadael a negodwyd, a dyma'r unig gytundeb a negodwyd rhwng yr UE a'r DU, ac eto pleidleisiodd eich ASau, yn enwedig ASau Plaid Cymru a Llafur, yn erbyn y peth hwn. Felly, mae'n rhyfeddol i mi, mewn gwirionedd, ein bod yn y sefyllfa hon, ac os caf eich cywiro, y rheswm pam ein bod wedi rhoi Mehefin 2016 yn y cynnig yw ein bod am atgoffa pobl ei bod yn dair blynedd ers y bleidlais a'i bod yn hen bryd i ni fwrw ati a chyflawni'r canlyniad, a oedd yn glir—pleidleisiodd pobl dros adael yr UE. Fe gymeraf yr ymyriad gan Helen Mary.

I'm grateful to the Member. I would put it to him that the reason why we haven't left the EU is because his Government singularly failed to have conversations with other Governments in the UK, to have conversations with other parties that might have led to some sort of compromise that those of us who did not want the result of that referendum but were prepared to accept it in the first place, but we were never offered that opportunity, as other parties, to participate. Those conversations only happened at the last minute. His party's got to take responsibility for that, and I would put to him that the young people who came of age in the last three years now have got a right to have a say in their own future because his party couldn't get their act together.

Diolch i'r Aelod. Hoffwn ddweud wrtho mai'r rheswm pam nad ydym wedi gadael yr UE yw am fod ei Lywodraeth wedi methu'n lân â chael sgyrsiau gyda Llywodraethau eraill yn y DU, sgyrsiau gyda phleidiau eraill a allai fod wedi arwain at ryw fath o gyfaddawd â'r rheini ohonom nad oedd eisiau canlyniad y refferendwm hwnnw ond a oedd yn barod i'w dderbyn yn y lle cyntaf, ond ni chynigiwyd cyfle i ni, na'r pleidiau eraill, i gymryd rhan. Dim ond ar y funud olaf y digwyddodd y sgyrsiau hynny. Mae'n rhaid i'w blaid gymryd cyfrifoldeb am hynny, a hoffwn ddweud wrtho fod gan y bobl ifanc a gyrhaeddodd oedran pleidleisio yn y tair blynedd ddiwethaf hawl i gael llais yn eu dyfodol eu hunain bellach am na allai ei blaid ef gael trefn arni ei hun.

The reality is that the UK Government quite rightly has spent its time negotiating with the EU, representing 27 states. But let's get back to this debate, because it's very important. We, unlike your party, Helen Mary, and unlike the Labour Party here, respect the result of the referendum and we believe that the will of the people should be implemented. That's why we've tabled this amendment today. We've always, as a nation, implemented the outcomes of referendums. We don't believe that we should patronise the people of Wales and tell them, 'We know better than you, and we're going to force you to go back to the polls, and you must vote in the way that we want you to vote next time around'.

Now, we've made it clear that we do support the aim of leaving the EU by 31 October, sooner if possible. I would like to see it as soon as possible, and we've made it absolutely clear in this Chamber on many occasions that we would prefer to leave with a deal, and that's why we backed the withdrawal agreement, which was a compromise between both of the extremes that we see here in the Chamber from the Brexit Party and from the Labour and Plaid axis, if I can call it that. But as I've made clear in this Chamber in the past also, whilst it's our preference to leave with a deal—and we want to see absolutely every effort made to secure one—should the EU not be prepared to shift or move their position, then there may be no option other than to leave without a deal in order to honour the outcome of the referendum. For me, it's more important to honour the outcome of the referendum than to extend that period and not fulfil the will of the people.

Y gwir amdani yw bod Llywodraeth y DU, yn gwbl briodol, wedi treulio ei hamser yn negodi gyda'r UE a oedd yn cynrychioli 27 o wladwriaethau. Ond beth am ddychwelyd at y ddadl hon, oherwydd mae'n bwysig iawn. Yn wahanol i'ch plaid chi, Helen Mary, ac yn wahanol i'r Blaid Lafur yma, rydym ni'n parchu canlyniad y refferendwm ac yn credu y dylid gweithredu ewyllys y bobl. Dyna pam ein bod wedi cyflwyno'r gwelliant hwn heddiw. Rydym bob amser, fel gwlad, wedi gweithredu canlyniadau refferenda. Nid ydym yn credu y dylem fod yn nawddoglyd wrth bobl Cymru a dweud wrthynt, 'Rydym yn gwybod yn well na chi, ac rydym yn mynd i'ch gorfodi chi i ddychwelyd i'r blwch pleidleisio, ac mae'n rhaid i chi bleidleisio yn y ffordd rydym am i chi bleidleisio y tro nesaf'.

Nawr, rydym wedi datgan yn glir ein bod yn cefnogi'r nod o adael yr UE erbyn 31 Hydref, yn gynt os yn bosibl. Hoffwn ei weld cyn gynted ag y bo modd, ac rydym wedi dweud yn gwbl glir yn y Siambr hon ar sawl achlysur y byddai'n well gennym adael gyda chytundeb, a dyna pam ein bod wedi cefnogi'r cytundeb ymadael, a oedd yn gyfaddawd rhwng y ddau begwn a welwn yma yn y Siambr ar ffurf Plaid Brexit ac echel Llafur a Phlaid Cymru, os caf ei alw'n hynny. Ond fel yr eglurais yn y Siambr hon yn y gorffennol hefyd, er mai'r hyn fyddai orau gennym fyddai gadael gyda chytundeb—ac rydym yn sicr am weld pob ymdrech yn cael ei gwneud i sicrhau un—os na fydd yr UE yn barod i newid eu safbwynt, efallai na fydd dewis heblaw'r gadael heb gytundeb er mwyn parchu canlyniad y refferendwm. I mi, mae'n bwysicach parchu canlyniad y refferendwm nag ymestyn y cyfnod hwnnw a pheidio â chyflawni ewyllys y bobl.

18:15

Could he clarify: is the Conservative Party position still to back the withdrawal agreement, or is it that of its putative leader, Boris Johnson, that it constitutes vassalage and a suicide vest around the country?

A allai egluro: ai safbwynt y Blaid Geidwadol o hyd yw cefnogi'r cytundeb ymadael, neu a yw ei safbwynt yr un fath ag un ei harweinydd tybiedig, Boris Johnson, fod y cytundeb yn un taeogaidd ac yn fest hunanladdiad o amgylch y wlad?

It's quite clear that the withdrawal agreement has no hope, in its current form, of passing through the UK Parliament, so there's going to have to be a discussion with the EU to see whether there's an ability to negotiate something different that would be acceptable. So, we've—. And it's because of this pragmatism on our side that we've supported the efforts of both the UK and the Welsh Governments to prepare and make extra effort to prepare for a 'no deal' Brexit, because that may well be the outcome that we want, as much as we don't actually want to see that. So, I say to everybody in this Chamber, instead of your extremes—and that that's what you are; you're all extremists as far as we're concerned—[Interruption.]—you need to get back—[Interruption.]—you need to get back to a position where you compromise in the same way that we have on these benches, in order to move the situation forward and to deliver the Brexit that the people of Wales voted for.

Mae'n gwbl glir nad oes unrhyw obaith y gall y cytundeb ymadael ar ei ffurf bresennol fynd drwy Senedd y DU, felly bydd yn rhaid cael trafodaeth gyda'r UE i weld a oes modd negodi rhywbeth gwahanol a fyddai'n dderbyniol. Felly, rydym wedi—. Ac oherwydd y bragmatiaeth hon ar ein hochr ni rydym wedi cefnogi ymdrechion Llywodraeth y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru i baratoi a gwneud ymdrech ychwanegol i baratoi ar gyfer Brexit 'dim bargen', oherwydd mae'n ddigon posibl mai dyna fydd y canlyniad y byddwn ei eisiau, er nad ydym eisiau gweld hynny'n digwydd o gwbl mewn gwirionedd. Felly, rwy'n dweud wrth bawb yn y Siambr, yn lle eich eithafion—a dyna ydych chi; rydych i gyd yn eithafwyr o'm rhan ni—[Torri ar draws.]—mae angen i chi ddychwelyd—[Torri ar draws.]—mae angen ichi ddychwelyd at safbwynt lle rydych yn cyfaddawdu yn yr un ffordd ag yr ydym ni ar y meinciau hyn wedi'i wneud er mwyn symud y sefyllfa yn ei blaen a sicrhau'r Brexit y pleidleisiodd pobl Cymru drosto.

There won’t be many occasions on this or any other afternoon where I find reason to thank the Brexit Party, but I will make an exception today for thanking them for the clarity of their motion, which specifically calls for a ‘no deal’ Brexit and to hell with the consequences for communities like Torfaen. [Interruption.] Yes, it does. To combine this new-found zeal for no deal with a refusal to acknowledge the need for a confirmatory vote is to rewrite the history of the 2016 referendum and is utterly undemocratic. Voters in Torfaen were told that a deal would be the easiest thing in the world, that countries would be battering down our doors to do exciting trade deals with us. Hundreds of millions flooding into the NHS—that is the illusion that was sold on the doorstep. We have not yet voted on reality.

The people who rely on the manufacturing sector in my constituency were not told that the price for a 'leave' vote could be their livelihoods—the work and the glue that holds communities together. Just last week, Make UK told the Brexit select committee that there was a direct link between politicians talking up the prospect of a 'no deal' and British firms losing customers overseas and British people losing their jobs. This cannot be dismissed as project fear—this is project fact. This is happening now. Plants are closing, jobs are going, communities are facing bleak futures. And this is just what the prospect of a 'no deal' is doing to us. Imagine what happens when that prospect becomes a reality, and that is what this motion before us today calls for.

At the very moment that our manufacturers are saying to us that calling for a ‘no deal’ Brexit is an act of economic vandalism, this is the moment when the Brexit Party table a motion calling for it. This is also the time when Boris Johnson launches his leadership campaign, which firmly puts 'no deal' on the table as a potential outcome of him becoming Prime Minister. And with another leadership hopeful supporting 150 per cent Katie Hopkins’s racist smear against the mayor of London, the toxicity of the Brexit debate shows no sign of abating. Now, I don’t expect I’ll convince the Brexit Party of the economic arguments against their chosen course today, but I do hope to convince them of something. This is, after all, the week in which we remember the death of our colleague, Jo Cox—a young female MP who spoke up for diversity as a strength and who was assassinated on the streets by a far-right terrorist. The language we choose to use in this Chamber matters. It really matters. The language our Members and supporters use on the street and online matters. It really matters. The labels we give other politicians and other people in our leaflets, our newspaper columns and Twitter feeds really matter. You will not find a more vocal critic of wrongdoers inside their own party than me. I will never excuse threatening, bullying or prejudicial behaviour by anyone. So, I want to give the leader of the Brexit Party that same opportunity today to clarify where he and his party stand on this. Since Mark Reckless accused me in this Chamber of disrespecting my constituents, I have been met with a sustained volley of abuse from a small but very vocal element locally.

Ni fydd llawer o achlysuron y prynhawn hwn nac unrhyw brynhawn arall lle caf reswm i ddiolch i Blaid Brexit, ond rwy'n gwneud eithriad heddiw i ddiolch iddynt am eglurder eu cynnig, sy'n galw'n benodol am Brexit 'dim bargen' ac i'r diawl â'r canlyniadau i gymunedau fel Torfaen. [Torri ar draws.] Ydy, mae. Mae cyfuno'r brwdfrydedd newydd hwn o blaid dim cytundeb gan wrthod cydnabod yr angen am bleidlais gadarnhaol yn ailysgrifennu hanes refferendwm 2016 ac mae'n gwbl annemocrataidd. Dywedwyd wrth bleidleiswyr yn Nhorfaen y byddai cael cytundeb yn haws na dim yn y byd, y byddai gwledydd yn curo ar ein drysau i lunio cytundebau masnach cyffrous â ni. Cannoedd o filiynau o bunnoedd yn llifo i mewn i'r GIG—dyna'r camargraff a werthwyd ar garreg y drws. Nid ydym wedi pleidleisio ar realiti eto.

Ni ddywedwyd wrth y bobl sy'n dibynnu ar y sector gweithgynhyrchu yn fy etholaeth mai'r pris am bleidlais 'adael' fyddai eu bywoliaeth o bosibl—y gwaith a'r glud sy'n dal cymunedau at ei gilydd. Yr wythnos diwethaf, dywedodd Make UK wrth y pwyllgor dethol ar Brexit fod cysylltiad uniongyrchol rhwng gwleidyddion yn sôn am y posibilrwydd o 'ddim bargen' a chwmnïau Prydeinig yn colli cwsmeriaid tramor a phobl Prydain yn colli eu swyddi. Ni ellir diystyru hyn fel prosiect ofn—prosiect ffaith yw hyn. Mae'n digwydd yn awr. Mae ffatrïoedd yn cau, mae swyddi'n mynd, mae cymunedau'n wynebu dyfodol llwm. A dim ond yr hyn y mae'r posibilrwydd o 'ddim bargen' yn ei wneud i ni yw hyn. Dychmygwch beth sy'n digwydd pan ddaw'r rhagolygon yn realiti, a dyna y mae'r cynnig hwn sydd ger ein bron heddiw yn galw amdano.

Ar yr union foment y mae ein gweithgynhyrchwyr yn dweud wrthym fod galw am Brexit 'dim bargen' yn weithred o fandaliaeth economaidd, dyma'r foment pan fo Plaid Brexit yn cyflwyno cynnig yn galw amdano. Dyma'r adeg hefyd pan fo Boris Johnson yn lansio ei ymgyrch am yr arweinyddiaeth, sy'n rhoi 'dim bargen' yn gadarn ar y bwrdd fel canlyniad posibl i'w wneud yn Brif Weinidog. A chydag un arall o'r rhai sydd yn y ras am yr arweinyddiaeth yn cefnogi 150 y cant y ffordd hiliol y sarhaodd Katie Hopkins faer Llundain, nid yw natur wenwynig dadl Brexit yn dangos unrhyw arwydd o leihau. Nawr, nid wyf yn disgwyl y byddaf yn argyhoeddi Plaid Brexit ynghylch y dadleuon economaidd yn erbyn y llwybr y dewisant ei ddilyn heddiw, ond rwy'n gobeithio eu hargyhoeddi o un peth. Wedi'r cyfan, dyma'r wythnos y cofiwn am farwolaeth ein cyd-Aelod, Jo Cox—AS ifanc a siaradai o blaid amrywiaeth fel cryfder ac a lofruddiwyd ar y stryd gan derfysgwr asgell dde. Mae'r iaith y dewiswn ei defnyddio yn y Siambr hon yn bwysig. Mae'n wirioneddol bwysig. Mae'r iaith y mae ein Haelodau a'n cefnogwyr yn ei defnyddio ar y stryd ac ar-lein yn bwysig. Mae'n wirioneddol bwysig. Mae'r labeli a roddwn i wleidyddion eraill a phobl eraill yn ein taflenni, ein colofnau papur newydd a ffrydiau Twitter yn bwysig iawn. Ni ddowch o hyd i feirniad mwy croch yn erbyn rhai sy'n cyflawni camweddau o fewn ei phlaid ei hun na fi. Ni fyddaf byth yn esgusodi ymddygiad bygythiol, bwlio neu ymddygiad rhagfarnllyd gan neb. Felly, rwyf am roi'r un cyfle i arweinydd Plaid Brexit heddiw i egluro lle mae ef a'i blaid yn sefyll ar hyn. Ers i Mark Reckless fy nghyhuddo yn y Siambr hon o amharchu fy etholwyr, dioddefais lif parhaus o gam-drin geiriol gan giwed fechan ond swnllyd iawn yn lleol.

18:20

Will you take an intervention? One of the Members of the Brexit Party just sighed and said, 'Oh God', when you mentioned the tragic death of Jo Cox. Do you join me in condemning that?

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad? Mae un o Aelodau Plaid Brexit newydd ochneidio a dweud, 'O God', pan sonioch am farwolaeth drasig Jo Cox. A ydych yn ymuno â mi i gondemnio hynny?

Absolutely, I do, and I think that is an absolute disgrace.

You think that the things you say in here—[Interruption.] You think that the things you say in here don't have a real-life impact. Well, they do. We can disagree—disagree passionately—about what we think is best for the economy of Torfaen, but to accuse me of not caring about Torfaen people's views is just plain wrong. I could have had a much easier career in politics if I didn't always put Torfaen first, but that has never been my way. Already, the security arrangements at my office have had to be revamped. During the Brexit Party's Merthyr rally, along with other Labour Members in this Chamber, I was denounced from the platform. Dawn Bowden's office was vandalised the next day. People are taking the lead from what they see and hear their leaders saying. When Nigel Farage said he was ready to don khaki to deliver Brexit, he might have thought it was a great joke. For people who are being targeted with violent abuse, it is anything but. This is politics by another means, it is dangerous, and I call on the leader of the Brexit Party to denounce, without equivocation, this threatening and intimidating rhetoric and behaviour. 

Ydw, yn sicr, a chredaf fod hynny'n gwbl warthus.

Rydych chi'n meddwl nad yw'r pethau a ddywedwch yn y fan hon—[Torri ar draws.] Rydych chi'n meddwl nad yw'r pethau rydych chi'n eu dweud yma yn cael effaith go iawn. Wel, maent yn cael effaith. Gallwn anghytuno—anghytuno'n angerddol—am yr hyn y credwn sydd orau i economi Torfaen, ond mae fy nghyhuddo o beidio â malio am farn pobl Torfaen yn hollol anghywir. Gallwn fod wedi cael gyrfa haws o lawer mewn gwleidyddiaeth pe na bawn wedi rhoi Torfaen yn gyntaf bob tro, ond nid dyna oedd fy ffordd. Eisoes, bu'n rhaid ailwampio'r trefniadau diogelwch yn fy swyddfa. Yn ystod rali Plaid Brexit ym Merthyr Tudful, cefais fy nghondemnio gydag Aelodau Llafur eraill yn y Siambr hon o'r llwyfan. Cafodd swyddfa Dawn Bowden ei fandaleiddio y diwrnod wedyn. Mae pobl yn cael eu harwain gan yr hyn y gwelant ac y clywant eu harweinwyr yn ei ddweud. Pan ddywedodd Nigel Farage ei fod yn barod i wisgo dillad caci er mwyn sicrhau Brexit, efallai ei fod wedi meddwl ei bod yn jôc wych. I bobl sy'n cael eu targedu gan gam-drin treisgar, mae'n unrhyw beth ond jôc. Dyma wleidyddiaeth o fath arall, mae'n beryglus, a galwaf ar arweinydd Plaid Brexit i gondemnio'n ddiwyro y rhethreg a'r ymddygiad bygythiol a threisgar hwn.

I assume the Member—[Interruption.] I assume the Member is wanting me to intervene. I denounce political violence and intimidation in all its forms. I've fought a by-election where I had a significant degree of intimidation and I think we need to call it out whenever we see it. I totally agree with this. I believe in democracy. I think we need to implement democratic results. That is the way that we should do politics in our country. 

Rwy'n tybio bod yr Aelod—[Torri ar draws.] Rwy'n cymryd bod yr Aelod eisiau imi ymyrryd. Rwy'n condemnio trais a bygythiadau gwleidyddol o bob math. Rwyf wedi ymladd isetholiad lle dioddefais gryn dipyn o fygythiadau ac rwy'n credu bod angen i ni dynnu sylw ato pryd bynnag y byddwn yn ei weld. Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â hyn. Rwy'n credu mewn democratiaeth. Rwy'n credu bod angen inni weithredu canlyniadau democrataidd. Dyna sut y dylem wneud gwleidyddiaeth yn ein gwlad.

Well, I hope that you will also then consider in the future the language that you use here, not just accusing some of us of disrespecting people, but I have heard the term too often 'betrayal', and the term 'betrayal' leads to accusations of people being traitors. I'll give way again.

Wel, gobeithio y byddwch hefyd yn ystyried yr iaith a ddefnyddiwch yma yn y dyfodol felly, nid dim ond cyhuddo rhai ohonom o amharchu pobl, ond rwyf wedi clywed y term 'brad' yn rhy aml, ac mae'r term 'brad' yn arwain at gyhuddo pobl o fod yn fradwyr. Fe ildiaf eto.

I do not believe I myself have used that word. If I'm incorrect and you'd like to draw to me to anywhere when I've ever used that word in a political context to condemn anyone, then please do. But I don't believe I've said it. 

Nid wyf yn credu fy mod i wedi defnyddio'r gair hwnnw. Os ydw i'n anghywir ac os hoffech ddangos i mi lle y defnyddiais y gair hwnnw erioed mewn cyd-destun gwleidyddol i gondemnio unrhyw un, gwnewch hynny. Ond nid wyf yn credu fy mod wedi'i ddweud.

Well, I will certainly check that, but certainly some Members have. Needless—

Wel, byddaf yn sicr yn edrych ar hynny, ond yn sicr mae rhai Aelodau wedi gwneud. Nid oes angen—

Sorry, I don't want to take—

Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, nid wyf am gymryd—

You've made your speech, Mark. I am speaking—

Rydych wedi gwneud eich araith, Mark. Rwy'n siarad—

I need to—. I would like to correct what I just said. I don't believe I've used the word 'traitor'. That is not a word I use.

Mae angen i mi—. Hoffwn gywiro'r hyn rwyf newydd ei ddweud. Nid wyf yn credu fy mod wedi defnyddio'r gair 'bradwr'. Nid yw hwnnw'n air rwy'n ei ddefnyddio.

The word 'betray' I may use in some contexts. But we should think very carefully how we use words, I agree.

Rwy'n defnyddio'r gair 'bradychu' mewn rhai cyd-destunau. Ond dylem feddwl yn ofalus iawn ynglŷn â sut y byddwn yn defnyddio geiriau, rwy'n cytuno.

I did not accuse you of using the word 'traitor', I was talking about the word 'betrayal', which does—

Ni wneuthum eich cyhuddo o ddefnyddio'r gair 'bradwr', roeddwn yn siarad am y gair 'brad' sy'n—

My denial—. I don't deny using that. 

Nid wyf yn gwadu defnyddio'r gair hwnnw.

I should declare for the context, I do—. I haven't used the word 'traitor'.

Dylwn ddatgan ar gyfer y cyd-destun fy mod—. Nid wyf wedi defnyddio'r gair 'bradwr'.

Fine. I think you've clarified that. 

Iawn. Rwy'n credu eich bod wedi egluro hynny.

Thank you very much, but I'd like to finish my speech now, and I hope that you will reflect on the comments that I've made.

Needless to say, I won't be voting for this motion today. I remain on the side of the manufacturers who see any form of Brexit as harmful and a 'no deal' as straightforward economic vandalism. Far from disrespecting the people of Torfaen, it is the high regard I have for the fabric of every community in the constituency that energises me to fight for a final say, where people can have a real say on the real choices facing this country and not on the nebulous and dishonest terms we had in 2016. 

Diolch yn fawr, ond hoffwn orffen fy araith yn awr, a gobeithio y byddwch yn ystyried y sylwadau a wneuthum.

Afraid dweud na fyddaf yn pleidleisio o blaid y cynnig hwn heddiw. Rwy'n aros ar ochr y cynhyrchwyr sy'n gweld unrhyw fath o Brexit fel rhywbeth niweidiol a 'dim bargen' fel fandaliaeth economaidd syml. Ymhell o ddangos diffyg parch at bobl Torfaen, y parch mawr sydd gennyf at wead pob cymuned yn yr etholaeth sy'n rhoi egni i mi frwydro dros gael llais terfynol, pan all pobl ddweud eu barn go iawn ar y dewisiadau go iawn sy'n wynebu'r wlad hon ac nid ar y telerau annelwig ac anonest a gawsom yn 2016.

Before I start my contribution, I would like to ask to be accorded the respect due to me as one of your peers also. I find heckling and criticism—that comes largely from the Labour benches—childish and unsettling. It is in that spirit of mutual respect that I make these comments. 

I don't think there is anyone in the UK or watching the Brexit debacle from outside that would disagree that it's a mess—a big mess. I won't repeat here the arguments, counter arguments, statistics, polling and counter polling that has been the foundation of many of the debates here in this Chamber or anywhere else. We have all heard them before, and so have our constituents, and we can all twist them to suit any of our narratives. 

Obviously, I support this motion today, and I can’t help but think that this is the natural conclusion of the last three years of arguing, backpedalling, poor leadership, hidden agenda, lack of preparation and taking the electorate for granted. We have a deeply divided country that now appears to me to have split along leave/remain lines. We all know that, and these lines are appearing to transcend usual party allegiances.

An example from yesterday: I met a couple outside talking, and we got on great for 20 minutes talking about the sheep and the pigs outside, and what I did in farming previously and things like that. And then just as I shook their hand—we'd also agreed on things like EU rules, about ticks and farming and things like that—and, then just as I went to go in, she shook my hand and she said, 'Oh, lovely to meet you, what party do you represent?' and I said, 'The Brexit Party', and it was like I grew horns. She took a step back and she said, 'Well, I'm sorry, we voted "remain" and we will have to agree to disagree', and yet we'd agreed for the last 20 minutes when I put things forward to her. She'd agreed with everything, you know—so, it's just really weird. 

You won’t be surprised to hear that I believe that the continued relative success of our democracy means that I believe the vote that took place in 2016 needs to be implemented. The whole premise of our democracy is built on the consent of the loser. That is the underpinning principle. If that no longer applies, what then? I've heard too many people tell me that they will never vote again because their vote in 2016 has been disregarded, and a lot of those are on the Labour side. They tell me it’s pointless and meaningless. And we all lose if our democracy is built on apathy and a lack of trust in it. This is not a sustainable foundation.

I attended my first meeting of the Brexit committee on Monday, and I’d like to thank the clerks and the Members for their very warm welcome. Thank you. It was an interesting evidence session, where we discussed the ongoing development of common frameworks. The standout moment for me was the admission that there is apparently no agreement across the various UK Governments as to what an actual common framework actually is and what it does. Luckily, the committee is now seeking to clarify this by writing to Westminster, the Welsh Government and Scotland as well, hopefully. There appears to be a big communication problem all the way through, and this is doing a disservice to our country. Indeed, my former committee’s report, 'UK governance post-Brexit', pointed this out and made recommendations around this in 2018.

In my opinion, we are currently at a tipping point in terms of our exit from the EU—which must happen—in terms of our rather dysfunctional relationships with the other Governments of this land, which need to be sorted, and in terms of our democracy, in which we need to restore confidence. For these reasons, I will be supporting this motion of ours today. Thank you. 

Cyn imi ddechrau fy nghyfraniad, hoffwn ofyn am y parch rwy'n ei haeddu fel un o'ch cymheiriaid hefyd. Rwy'n ystyried bod heclo a beirniadaeth—a ddaw i raddau helaeth o gyfeiriad y meinciau Llafur—yn blentynnaidd ac yn aflonyddgar. Yn yr ysbryd hwnnw o barch cydradd y gwnaf y sylwadau hyn.

Nid wyf yn meddwl y byddai unrhyw un yn y DU neu sy'n gwylio ffiasgo Brexit o'r tu allan yn anghytuno ei fod yn llanast—llanast mawr. Ni wnaf ailadrodd yma y dadleuon, y gwrthddadleuon, yr ystadegau, yr arolygon barn un ffordd a'r ffordd arall a fu'n sylfaen i lawer o'r dadleuon yma yn y Siambr neu unrhyw le arall. Mae pawb ohonom wedi'u clywed o'r blaen, ac mae ein hetholwyr wedi eu clywed o'r blaen, a gallwn oll eu troi i gyd-fynd ag unrhyw un o'n naratifau.

Yn amlwg, rwy'n cefnogi'r cynnig hwn heddiw, ac ni allaf ond meddwl mai dyma ben draw naturiol y tair blynedd diwethaf o ddadlau, ailystyried, arweinyddiaeth wael, agenda gudd, diffyg paratoi a chymryd yr etholwyr yn ganiataol. Mae gennym wlad ranedig iawn sydd bellach yn ymddangos i mi ei bod wedi'i hollti ar hyd llinellau gadael/aros. Rydym i gyd yn gwybod hynny, ac mae'n ymddangos bod y llinellau hyn yn goresgyn teyrngarwch pleidiol arferol.

Un enghraifft a welais ddoe: cyfarfûm â chwpl y tu allan yn siarad, a chawsom hwyl arni am 20 munud tu allan yn siarad am y defaid a'r moch, a'r hyn yr arferwn ei wneud ym maes ffermio yn flaenorol a phethau felly. Ac yna, wrth i mi ysgwyd eu llaw—roeddem wedi cytuno ar bethau fel rheolau'r UE hefyd, am drogod a ffermio a phethau felly—ac yna wrth i mi anelu i fynd i mewn, fe wnaeth hi ysgwyd fy llaw a dweud, 'O, mae'n hyfryd eich cyfarfod, pa blaid rydych chi'n ei chynrychioli?' a dywedais, 'Plaid Brexit', ac roedd fel pe bawn i wedi tyfu cyrn. Camodd yn ôl a dywedodd, 'Wel, mae'n ddrwg gennyf, fe bleidleision ni dros 'aros' a bydd yn rhaid i ni gytuno i anghytuno', ac eto roeddem wedi cytuno am yr 20 munud diwethaf pan ddywedais bethau wrthi. Roedd hi'n cytuno â phopeth, wyddoch chi—felly, mae'n rhyfedd iawn.  

Ni fyddwch yn synnu clywed fy mod yn credu bod llwyddiant cymharol parhaus ein democratiaeth yn golygu fy mod yn credu bod angen gweithredu'r bleidlais a gynhaliwyd yn 2016. Mae holl gynsail ein democratiaeth wedi ei seilio ar gydsyniad y collwr. Dyna'r egwyddor sylfaenol. Os nad yw hynny'n berthnasol bellach, beth wedyn? Clywais ormod o bobl yn dweud wrthyf na fyddant byth yn pleidleisio eto oherwydd bod eu pleidlais yn 2016 wedi'i diystyru, ac mae llawer o'r rheini ar ochr Llafur. Maent yn dweud wrthyf fod pleidleisio'n ddibwrpas ac yn ddiystyr. Ac mae pawb ohonom yn colli os yw ein democratiaeth wedi'i hadeiladu ar ddifaterwch a diffyg ymddiriedaeth ynddi. Nid yw hon yn sylfaen gynaliadwy.

Mynychais fy nghyfarfod cyntaf o bwyllgor Brexit ddydd Llun, a hoffwn ddiolch i'r clercod a'r Aelodau am eu croeso cynnes iawn. Diolch. Roedd yn sesiwn dystiolaeth ddiddorol, lle buom yn trafod datblygiad parhaus fframweithiau cyffredin. Yr eiliad a safai allan i mi oedd y cyfaddefiad nad yw'n ymddangos bod cytundeb ar draws gwahanol Lywodraethau'r DU ynglŷn â beth yw fframwaith cyffredin mewn gwirionedd a beth mae'n ei wneud. Yn ffodus, mae'r pwyllgor yn ceisio eglurhad ar hyn bellach drwy ysgrifennu at San Steffan, Llywodraeth Cymru a'r Alban hefyd, gobeithio. Mae'n ymddangos bod yna broblem gyfathrebu fawr yr holl ffordd drwodd, ac mae hyn yn gwneud anghymwynas â'n gwlad. Yn wir, roedd adroddiad fy nghyn bwyllgor ar lywodraethu'r DU ar ôl Brexit yn tynnu sylw at hyn a gwnaeth argymhellion ynglŷn â hyn yn 2018.

Yn fy marn i, rydym ar bwynt di-droi'n-ôl ar hyn o bryd o ran ein hymadawiad â'r UE—a rhaid i hynny ddigwydd—o ran ein cysylltiadau go gamweithredol â Llywodraethau eraill y wlad hon, rhywbeth sydd angen ei ddatrys, ac o ran adfer hyder yn ein democratiaeth. Am y rhesymau hyn, byddaf yn cefnogi'r cynnig hwn gennym heddiw. Diolch yn fawr.  

18:25

Llywydd, Plaid Cymru has not sought to amend this Brexit Party motion; it is so far removed from reality that the kindest course of action is to put it out of its misery before it implodes under the weight of its own contradictions. To consider that the Brexit Party only cares about one thing—Brexit—it is really quite astonishing to be confronted with the depth of their ignorance about how it would work. It is a little like seeing a contestant on Mastermind scoring zero points on their self-professed specialist subject. The motion notes that 498 MPs voted to trigger article 50 back in March 2017. That, at least, is correct. That's 498 mainly Tory and Labour MPs who voted in favour of embarking on a voyage of discovery without a map, a compass or any idea of where it was they hoped to reach. [Interruption.] No, I will not give way, Mark.

Plaid Cymru warned at that time that it was a monumental mistake to set in motion a countdown to departure, when the UK Government had no clear set of objectives. The Government knew that there were serious issues with all types of Brexit, so, in the light of that difficulty, they decided not to decide which one to pursue in the hope that nobody would notice. They didn't want to choose a soft Brexit, because it would simply mean that they would have to carry on with EU membership without some of the benefits. They didn't want to choose a hard Brexit, because their own impact assessments clearly showed this would cause severe and long-lasting damage to the economy. And, since there was no goldilocks Brexit to be had, they chose neither, and negotiated a deal that pleased no-one.

Now, according to this Brexit Party motion, leaving the EU without a deal on Halloween could reduce the cost of food, clothing and—get this—footwear. Let's let that sink in. We've gone from £350 million extra a week for the NHS to a vague hope that we may get £3.50 off our next pair of shoes. And even this less-than-bold claim doesn't stand up to scrutiny—

Lywydd, nid yw Plaid Cymru wedi ceisio diwygio'r cynnig hwn gan Blaid Brexit; mae mor bell oddi wrth realiti fel mai'r peth mwyaf caredig i'w wneud yw ei wared o'i ddioddefaint cyn iddo suddo o dan bwysau ei wrthddywediadau ei hun. Ag ystyried mai un peth yn unig sydd o bwys i Blaid Brexit—Brexit—mae'n gwbl ryfeddol wynebu dyfnder eu hanwybodaeth ynglŷn â sut y byddai'n gweithio. Mae'n weddol debyg i weld cystadleuydd ar Mastermind yn methu sgorio pwynt ar eu pwnc arbenigol addefedig eu hunan. Mae'r cynnig yn nodi bod 498 o ASau wedi pleidleisio dros sbarduno erthygl 50 yn ôl ym mis Mawrth 2017. Mae hynny, o leiaf, yn gywir. Dyna 498 o ASau Torïaidd a Llafur yn bennaf a bleidleisiodd o blaid cychwyn ar daith antur heb fap, cwmpawd nac unrhyw syniad lle roeddent yn gobeithio ei gyrraedd. [Torri ar draws.] Na, ni wnaf ildio, Mark.

Rhybuddiodd Plaid Cymru ar y pryd mai camgymeriad aruthrol oedd gosod y cloc ar gyfer gadael, pan nad oedd gan Lywodraeth y DU set glir o amcanion. Gwyddai'r Llywodraeth fod problemau difrifol gyda phob math o Brexit, felly, yng ngoleuni'r anhawster hwnnw, penderfynasant beidio â phenderfynu pa un i'w ddilyn yn y gobaith na fyddai neb yn sylwi. Nid oeddent am ddewis Brexit meddal, gan y byddai'n golygu'n syml y byddai'n rhaid iddynt barhau ag aelodaeth o'r UE heb rai o'r manteision. Nid oeddent am ddewis Brexit caled, am fod eu hasesiadau effaith eu hunain yn dangos yn glir y byddai hynny'n achosi niwed difrifol dros gyfnod maith i'r economi. A chan nad oedd unrhyw Brexit cyfaddawdol i'w gael, ni wnaethant ddewis yr un o'r ddau, a bwrw iddi i negodi cytundeb nad oedd yn plesio neb.

Nawr, yn ôl y cynnig hwn gan Blaid Brexit, gallai gadael yr UE heb gytundeb ar noson Calan Gaeaf ostwng cost bwyd, dillad a—gwrandewch ar hyn—esgidiau. Gadewch inni adael i hynny suddo i mewn. Rydym wedi mynd o £350 miliwn ychwanegol yr wythnos i'r GIG i'r gobaith niwlog y gallwn gael £3.50 oddi ar ein pâr nesaf o esgidiau. Ac nid yw'r honiad llai na beiddgar hwn hyd yn oed yn dal dŵr—

18:30

Will you take an intervention?

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

Yes, I'll take an intervention.

Iawn, fe gymeraf ymyriad.

It's on that very point. You mentioned contradictions earlier on and, of course, we've heard about the impact, potentially, on the price of clothing. We just had a debate on climate change and the lack of sustainability, and yet the proposal seems to be inviting cheap imported throwaway fashion, basically, as a way to entice people to support a 'no deal' Brexit. Would you share with me that that's another contradiction that the Brexit Party don't seem to get?

Mae ar yr union bwynt hwnnw. Fe sonioch chi am wrthddywediadau yn gynharach ac wrth gwrs, rydym wedi clywed am yr effaith bosibl ar bris dillad. Rydym newydd gael dadl ar newid hinsawdd a diffyg cynaliadwyedd, ac eto i gyd ymddengys bod y cynnig yn gwahodd dillad ffasiwn rhad wedi'u mewnforio, yn y bôn, fel ffordd o ddenu pobl i gefnogi Brexit 'dim bargen'. A fyddech chi'n rhannu fy marn fod hwnnw'n wrthddywediad arall nad yw Plaid Brexit i'w gweld yn ei ddeall?

On that, at least, we might be able to agree, on Brexit.

A 'no deal' exit would likely result in a sudden decline in the value of sterling, which would mean that nothing would be cheaper, so what is the Brexit Party's answer to this? How would they keep prices down? Their policy, insofar as can be deduced, would be to unilaterally reduce tariffs to zero. Of course, under the WTO's most-favoured-nation rule, it would be illegal to discriminate on tariffs outside of a trade agreement. So, the UK would have to drop tariffs on chosen goods for the entire world. The consequence of this, obviously, would be catastrophe for agriculture and manufacturing on these islands, flooding the market with cheap goods and making Welsh produce uncompetitive overnight.

Ar hynny, o leiaf, efallai y gallwn gytuno, o ran Brexit.

Byddai gadael heb gytundeb yn debygol o arwain at ddirywiad sydyn yng ngwerth sterling, a fyddai'n golygu na fyddai dim byd yn rhatach, felly beth yw ateb Plaid Brexit i hyn? Sut y byddent yn cadw prisiau i lawr? Eu polisi, hyd y gellir gweld, fyddai lleihau tariffau'n unochrog i sero. Wrth gwrs, o dan reol 'cenedl a ffefrir fwyaf' Sefydliad Masnach y Byd, byddai'n anghyfreithlon i wahaniaethu ar dariffau y tu allan i gytundeb masnach. Felly, byddai'n rhaid i'r DU ollwng tariffau ar nwyddau dewisol ar gyfer y byd i gyd. Byddai hyn, yn amlwg, yn drychineb i amaethyddiaeth a gweithgynhyrchu ar yr ynysoedd hyn, ac yn boddi'r farchnad â nwyddau rhad ac yn gwneud cynnyrch o Gymru yn anghystadleuol dros nos.

Will the Member give way? We haven't proposed cutting all tariffs to zero. Broadly, we thought the Government tariff schedule was a sensible one. On clothing and footwear there's a strong case. On food, we would see the case for a degree of protection for domestic producers.

A wnaiff yr Aelod ildio? Nid ydym wedi cynnig torri pob tariff i sero. Yn gyffredinol, roeddem o'r farn fod rhestr dariffau'r Llywodraeth yn un synhwyrol. Ceir achos cryf ar ddillad ac esgidiau. Ar fwyd, byddem yn gweld achos dros gael rhywfaint o amddiffyniad i gynhyrchwyr domestig.

Thank you for that enlightening contribution, Mark.

A WTO Brexit would also lead, however, to a trade embargo, resulting in the halting of exports of UK animal-based products such as meat, eggs and dairy to the EU—I wonder if you would disagree with that as well—a double whammy as this would be for Welsh farmers, courtesy of the Brexit Party. We also have, of course, this lamentable claim that the UK could save £39 billion by withholding the so-called divorce bill. This would preclude a trade agreement with the EU, which the Brexit Party apparently wants, it would damage the UK's credit rating, and as the French Government has made clear, it would be considered a sovereign debt default by EU countries. Let us be absolutely clear what is being proposed here. The Brexit Party is advocating making the UK an economic basket case.

Now, let me turn to my favourite part of this astonishing motion, point 5, which calls for a 'no deal' exit from the EU unless they offer the UK a comprehensive free trade agreement and accept alternative arrangements in place of the Northern Ireland protocol. Well, these are demands for things that the EU has already offered and that the Brexit Party opposes. The EU offered comprehensive trade agreements with zero tariffs and they have accepted alternative arrangements for the border—it's in the Irish protocol, which the Brexit Party are rejecting. The backstop only comes into force if those alternative arrangements do not do what the Brexiteers say they will do, which is create a frictionless border. So, there we have it. The mess of a motion before us makes quite laughable promises. Cheaper shoes—give me strength—that aren't even deliverable. It demands that the EU offers a deal that it has already offered, and it will stand as proof down the ages that the Brexit Party was no more than a single-issue party that had zero understanding of the single issue it existed to advocate. In case it wasn't obvious, I urge Members to vote against this motion as we will certainly be doing.

Diolch i chi am y cyfraniad hwnnw i'n goleuo, Mark.

Serch hynny, byddai Brexit Sefydliad Masnach y Byd yn arwain at embargo masnachol, gan arwain at atal allforio cynhyrchion anifeiliaid o'r DU fel cig, wyau a chynnyrch llaeth i'r UE—tybed a fyddech chi'n anghytuno â hynny hefyd—ergyd ddwbl i ffermwyr Cymru trwy garedigrwydd Plaid Brexit. Hefyd, wrth gwrs, mae gennym yr honiad truenus hwn y gallai'r DU arbed £39 biliwn drwy atal y Bil ysgaru fel y'i gelwir. Byddai hyn yn atal cytundeb masnach â'r UE, rhywbeth y mae Plaid Brexit ei eisiau yn ôl pob golwg, byddai'n niweidio statws credyd y DU, ac fel y mae Llywodraeth Ffrainc wedi dweud yn glir, byddai gwledydd yr UE yn ystyried hynny'n fethiant i dalu dyled sofran. Gadewch inni fod yn gwbl glir ynghylch beth sy'n cael ei gynnig yma. Mae Plaid Brexit yn argymell gwneud y DU yn wlad mewn trafferthion economaidd dwys.

Nawr, gadewch i mi droi at fy hoff ran o'r cynnig rhyfeddol hwn, pwynt 5, sy'n galw am adael yr UE heb gytundeb oni bai eu bod yn cynnig cytundeb masnach rydd cynhwysfawr i'r DU ac yn derbyn trefniadau amgen yn lle'r protocol ar gyfer Gogledd Iwerddon. Wel, mae'r rhain yn alwadau am bethau y mae'r UE eisoes wedi'u cynnig a phethau y mae Plaid Brexit yn eu gwrthwynebu. Cynigiodd yr UE gytundebau masnach cynhwysfawr heb unrhyw dariffau ac maent wedi derbyn trefniadau amgen ar gyfer y ffin—mae yn y protocol Gwyddelig, a wrthodir gan Blaid Brexit. Ni ddaw'r trefniadau 'backstop' i rym oni bai fod y trefniadau amgen hynny'n methu gwneud yr hyn y mae cefnogwyr Brexit yn dweud y byddant yn ei wneud, sef creu ffin ddiffrithiant. Felly, dyna ni. Mae'r llanast o gynnig o'n blaenau yn gwneud addewidion cwbl chwerthinllyd. Esgidiau rhatach—a'n gwaredo—ac nid yw hynny hyd yn oed yn gyflawnadwy. Mae'n mynnu bod yr UE yn cynnig cytundeb y mae eisoes wedi'i gynnig, a bydd yn sefyll fel prawf ar hyd yr oesoedd nad oedd Plaid Brexit yn ddim mwy na phlaid un pwnc heb unrhyw ddealltwriaeth o'r un pwnc y bodolai er mwyn dadlau drosto. Rhag ofn nad oedd yn amlwg, rwy'n annog yr Aelodau i bleidleisio yn erbyn y cynnig hwn a byddwn ni'n sicr yn gwneud hynny.

Once again, I agree with Darren; it's groundhog day. We hear again that the first motion by the Brexit Party is to support their belief that leaving the EU without an agreement is a virtuous act and will enhance the lives of the people of Wales. Although this time, they've actually added little bits trying to encourage us by saying that there'll be a reduction on food, clothing and, as pointed out, footwear. I've got my shoes on; I'm okay.

But, in that discussion, they say that we won't pay the £39 billion. Well, we had the discussion and the exchange we had earlier, and it has been shown that there's no legal requirement for the whole £39 billion, but I think as Delyth Jewell has pointed out, the failure to meet your moral obligations—and there are moral obligations here—actually could and would probably be seen by the world as a failure to honour treaties that they enter into. And then, you're trying to say, 'Well, we want to trade with you and negotiate a deal with you, but at the same time, we won't give you what we think you should be having'.

It's full of fantasies, this motion, and it reflects the total inability of the party opposite to actually put together a cohesive argument for leaving the EU. They want to ignore obligations. And I think that last point, actually, is to blackmail the EU: 'You won't get your money unless you do a deal with us'. That's a form of blackmail. Do you think that other countries are going to meet into that? [Interruption.] It's not negotiation, and the Member from a sedentary position trying to say it is knows that full well. If he'd ever been in negotiations, he'd know better than that. I have, in a sense, been in negotiations that are slightly different—not with nations, but, more importantly, with my members.

Unwaith eto, rwy'n cytuno â Darren; rydym yn ôl gyda'r un peth unwaith eto. Clywn eto mai'r cynnig cyntaf gan Blaid Brexit yw cynnig i gefnogi eu cred fod gadael yr UE heb gytundeb yn weithred rinweddol ac y bydd yn gwella bywydau pobl Cymru. Er hynny, y tro hwn, maent wedi ychwanegu mân bethau er mwyn ceisio ein hannog drwy ddweud y bydd gostyngiadau ar fwyd, dillad ac esgidiau, fel y nodwyd. Mae gennyf fy esgidiau amdanaf; fe fyddaf i'n iawn.

Ond yn y drafodaeth honno, maent yn dweud na fyddwn ni'n talu'r £39 biliwn. Wel, cawsom y drafodaeth a'r sgwrs a gawsom yn gynharach, a dangoswyd nad oes gofyniad cyfreithiol am y £39 biliwn cyfan, ond fel y mae Delyth Jewell wedi nodi rwy'n credu, fe allai ac fe fydd y methiant i gyflawni eich rhwymedigaethau moesegol—a cheir rhwymedigaethau moesegol yma—yn debygol o gael ei weld gan y byd fel methiant i anrhydeddu cytuniadau y maent yn ymrwymo iddynt. Ac yna, rydych chi'n ceisio dweud, 'Wel, rydym eisiau masnachu gyda chi a negodi cytundeb gyda chi, ond ar yr un pryd, ni fyddwn yn rhoi'r hyn y credwn y dylech fod yn ei gael'.

Mae'r cynnig hwn yn llawn o ffantasïau, ac mae'n adlewyrchu anallu llwyr y blaid gyferbyn i lunio dadl gydlynol dros adael yr UE. Maent am anwybyddu rhwymedigaethau. A chredaf fod y pwynt olaf, mewn gwirionedd, yn sôn am flacmelio'r UE: 'Ni chewch eich arian oni bai eich bod yn ymrwymo i gytundeb â ni'. Mae hynny'n ffurf ar flacmel. A ydych yn credu bod gwledydd eraill yn mynd i fodloni ar hynny? [Torri ar draws.] Nid negodi ydyw, ac mae'r Aelod sy'n ceisio dweud o'i sedd mai dyna ydyw yn gwybod hynny'n iawn. Pe bai erioed wedi bod mewn negodiadau, byddai'n gwybod yn well na hynny. Mewn ffordd, rwyf wedi bod mewn negodiadau ychydig yn wahanol—nid gyda gwledydd, ond yn bwysicach, gyda fy aelodau.

Llywydd, I actually accept that the majority of people in Wales voted to leave in the 2016 referendum. In fact, in my constituency, the majority voted to leave in that referendum. So, I'm not standing here to challenge what they wanted to do. They wanted to leave. We may have differences as to what 'leave' meant, but they wanted to leave. And we must think of a way in which we can deliver that as much as possible, but we must do so whilst protecting people in Wales from the worst possible outcomes, because it's their living standards we want to protect as well.

The former First Minister, who was sitting here this afternoon, made it quite clear just after the referendum that this Welsh Government would work towards delivering the outcome of the referendum, but after almost three years of shambolic attempts in Westminster to devise a plan for Brexit, we're now left with a governing party in Westminster in turmoil, and a Government leadership contest with four candidates left—all of whom, by the way, were in Cabinet at the time of those two years—trying to actually renegotiate a deal that they've been told they can't renegotiate, or leaving without a deal, and we all know a 'no deal' departure will be the most damaging to this nation.

Now, it's incumbent upon this Assembly to take every possible action to protect the Welsh economy, and we're now in a situation that leaves us hardly any options in that, but one option we must accept is to fight against a departure from the EU without a deal. That is the worst possible scenario. The evidence I have heard clearly reflects that. Now, we heard today some stories from Members opposite that great things will come from such an exit and we'll have great trade deals with other countries, possibly the EU making a deal with us, our tariffs will be used across the globe, unilaterally across everybody, to give us a lower cost on shoes and lower costs on high-end clothes. Well, most of my constituents won't be buying high-end clothes.

We've heard also the argument from the leader, nationally, of the opposite party that the GAAT article 24 can be invoked and we will continue to trade with no tariffs across the EU. Well, he hasn't actually read article 24, I think, because if you read article 24—and the whole evidence is there; go to the House of Commons research people if you want to read it—that article 24 is invoked when you're in negotiations, not at this stage. We're not in negotiations. And when we leave, we won't be in negotiations, so we won't invoke 24. So, we will not be in a position where we can actually say, 'Let's keep the status quo', because it won't apply. 

We also remember that article 24 only applies to goods. It does not apply to services. So, one of the largest elements of our economy is not included in article 24. So, again, we will not have status quo in our economy. We will have to pay tariffs, and it's been pointed out by Delyth that WTO rules apply across all nations that are members of the WTO rules, and if you drop any tariff to try and encourage imports, you drop it for every nation, and that could put our jobs in this country at risk, as you have not got protections against some of the goods coming in, which may not be to the standards or quality we want because there's no question of regulation either on those aspects.

Another inaccurate statement being distributed by the Brexit Party—I've read their articles—is that you can drive across Europe with no problem: 'Don't worry; HGVs can go across, they're all okay'. We've been given 102 ECMT permits—look it up if you don't know what ECMT stands for. That means 5 per cent of the UK's haulage system is able to travel across Europe. Ninety-five per cent can't. How many Welsh hauliers is that going to put at risk? This fantasy of leaving with no deal being good for our economy has to be put out clearly to the public—that it is a fantasy. The reality is that leaving without a deal puts this economy at serious harm. And we represent people, every single one of us, even the four Members over there, who have to ensure that their living standards do not drop. A 'no deal' exit makes that happen. This motion is full of fantasy, full of fabrication and full of loss of hope for the people and economy of this country, and I would suggest everyone opposes it.

Lywydd, rwy'n derbyn bod y rhan fwyaf o bobl yng Nghymru wedi pleidleisio dros adael yn refferendwm 2016. Yn wir, yn fy etholaeth i, pleidleisiodd y mwyafrif dros adael yn y refferendwm hwnnw. Felly, nid wyf yn sefyll yma i herio'r hyn roeddent eisiau ei wneud. Roeddent eisiau gadael. Efallai ein bod yn gwahaniaethu o ran yr hyn oedd 'gadael' yn ei olygu, ond roeddent eisiau gadael. A rhaid i ni feddwl am ffordd o gyflawni hynny gymaint â phosibl, ond mae'n rhaid i ni wneud hynny gan ddiogelu pobl Cymru rhag y canlyniadau gwaethaf posibl, oherwydd rydym am ddiogelu eu safonau byw yn ogystal.

Roedd y cyn-Brif Weinidog, a oedd yn eistedd yma y prynhawn yma, yn ei gwneud yn gwbl glir, ar ôl y refferendwm, y byddai Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio tuag at gyflawni canlyniad y refferendwm, ond ar ôl bron i dair blynedd o ymgais flêr yn San Steffan i ddyfeisio cynllun ar gyfer Brexit, bellach fe'n gadawyd gyda phlaid lywodraethol yn San Steffan mewn cythrwfl, a ras am arweinyddiaeth y Llywodraeth gyda phedwar ymgeisydd ar ôl—pob un ohonynt, gyda llaw, yn y Cabinet yn ystod y ddwy flynedd—yn ceisio ailnegodi cytundeb y dywedwyd wrthynt na allant ei ailnegodi, na gadael heb gytundeb, ac mae pawb ohonom yn gwybod y byddai gadael heb gytundeb yn niweidiol iawn i'r wlad hon.

Nawr, mae'n ddyletswydd ar y Cynulliad hwn i gymryd pob cam posibl i ddiogelu economi Cymru, ac rydym bellach mewn sefyllfa sy'n golygu nad oes gennym fawr ddim opsiynau yn hynny, ond un opsiwn sy'n rhaid inni ei dderbyn yw brwydro yn erbyn gadael yr UE heb gytundeb. Dyna'r sefyllfa waethaf posibl. Mae'r dystiolaeth a glywais yn adlewyrchu hynny'n glir. Nawr, clywsom straeon heddiw gan yr Aelodau gyferbyn y daw pethau mawr o adael yn y fath fodd ac y cawn gytundebau masnach gwych gyda gwledydd eraill, gyda'r UE yn ymrwymo i gytundeb â ni o bosibl, caiff ein tariffau eu defnyddio ar draws y byd, yn unochrog ar draws pawb, i roi esgidiau am bris is i ni a dillad ym mhen uchaf y farchnad am brisiau is. Wel, ni fydd y rhan fwyaf o fy etholwyr i'n prynu dillad ym mhen uchaf y farchnad.

Clywsom hefyd y ddadl gan arweinydd y blaid gyferbyn yn genedlaethol y gellir rhoi erthygl 24 y Cytundeb Cyffredinol ar Dariffau a Masnach mewn grym a byddwn yn parhau i fasnachu heb unrhyw dariffau ar draws yr UE. Wel, nid wyf yn credu ei fod wedi darllen erthygl 24 mewn gwirionedd, achos os darllenwch erthygl 24—ac mae'r holl dystiolaeth yno; ewch at y bobl sy'n ymchwilio yn Nhŷ'r Cyffredin os ydych am ei ddarllen—caiff erthygl 24 ei rhoi mewn grym pan fyddwch wrthi'n negodi, nid ar y cam hwn. Nid ydym wrthi'n negodi. A phan fyddwn yn gadael, ni fyddwn wrthi'n negodi, felly ni fyddwn yn rhoi erthygl 24 mewn grym. Felly, ni fyddwn mewn sefyllfa lle gallwn ddweud mewn gwirionedd, 'Gadewch inni gadw'r status quo', oherwydd ni fydd yn berthnasol.

Cofiwn hefyd nad yw erthygl 24 ond yn berthnasol i nwyddau'n unig. Nid yw'n berthnasol i wasanaethau. Felly, nid yw un o elfennau mwyaf ein heconomi wedi'i chynnwys yn erthygl 24. Felly, unwaith eto, ni fydd gennym status quo yn ein heconomi. Bydd yn rhaid inni dalu tariffau, a dywedodd Delyth fod rheolau Sefydliad Masnach y Byd yn gymwys i bob gwlad sy'n aelod o reolau Sefydliad Masnach y Byd, ac os ydych yn cael gwared ar unrhyw dariffau i geisio annog mewnforion, rydych yn cael eu gwared ar gyfer pob gwlad, a gallai hynny roi ein swyddi yn y wlad hon mewn perygl, gan nad oes gennych amddiffyniadau rhag rhai o'r nwyddau sy'n dod i mewn, nad ydynt o bosibl o'r safon neu'r ansawdd a ddymunwn am nad oes unrhyw gwestiwn o reoleiddio chwaith ar gyfer yr agweddau hynny.

Datganiad anghywir arall sy'n cael ei ledaenu gan Blaid Brexit—rwyf wedi darllen eu herthyglau—yw y gallwch yrru ar draws Ewrop heb unrhyw broblem: 'Peidiwch â phoeni; gall cerbydau nwyddau trwm fynd ar draws, maent i gyd yn iawn'. Rydym wedi cael 102 o drwyddedau ECMT—edrychwch i weld os nad ydych yn gwybod beth yw ystyr ECMT. Mae'n golygu bod 5 y cant o system cludo nwyddau'r DU yn gallu teithio ar draws Ewrop. Ni all 95 y cant wneud hynny. Faint o gludwyr nwyddau Cymru fydd hynny'n eu peryglu? Mae'n rhaid i'r ffantasi hon fod gadael heb gytundeb yn dda i'n heconomi gael ei dangos yn glir i'r cyhoedd—mai ffantasi ydyw. Y realiti yw bod gadael heb gytundeb yn niweidio'r economi hon yn ddirfawr. Ac rydym yn cynrychioli pobl, pob un ohonom, hyd yn oed y pedwar Aelod acw, ac yn gorfod sicrhau nad yw eu safonau byw yn gostwng. Mae gadael heb gytundeb yn gwneud i hynny ddigwydd. Mae'r cynnig hwn yn llawn o ffantasi, yn llawn o anwiredd ac yn llawn o anobaith i bobl ac economi'r wlad hon, a hoffwn awgrymu bod pawb yn ei wrthwynebu.

18:40

Y Gweinidog Brexit i ymateb i'r ddadl—Jeremy Miles.

The Brexit Minister to respond to the debate—Jeremy Miles.

Diolch, Llywydd. Mewn datganiad bythefnos yn ôl fe ddywedais i, er gwaethaf yr estyniad pellach i broses erthygl 50, nad ydym ni damaid yn agosach at ddod o hyd i ffordd ymlaen ar ymadawiad y Deyrnas Unedig o'r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Mae Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig wedi methu â delifro ar y mater pwysicaf oll yn ein hanes mewn cyfnod o heddwch, ac wedi methu gwella'r rhaniadau yn ein cymdeithas. Yn 2016, yn dilyn blynyddoedd o gyni llethol gan Lywodraeth Geidwadol San Steffan, roedd sawl un yn ein cymdeithas yn teimlo eu bod yn cael eu gadael ar ôl, a'u hanghofio, gan y rhai sydd â chyfrifoldeb i amddiffyn y bobl mwyaf agored i niwed.

Yn ôl rhai, ymgyrch y refferendwm yn dilyn hynny oedd y digwyddiad democrataidd mwyaf yn ein hanes, ond dyma'r digwyddiad a achosodd y mwyaf o raniadau, hefyd. Fe gafodd y rhaniadau a oedd eisoes yn bodoli eu porthi gan yr ymgyrch 'ymadael', a oedd yn ceisio perswadio etholwyr mewn unrhyw ffordd bosib y byddai ymadael â'r Undeb Ewropeaidd yn datrys y problemau yn ein cymdeithas. Roedd hon yn ymgyrch a gafodd ei hadeiladu ar ddelweddau effeithiol ond gwbl ddisylwedd, fel 'taking back control'. Fyddwn ni ddim yn gweld y Deyrnas Unedig yn cael £350 miliwn yr wythnos, fel cafodd ei honni; i'r gwrthwyneb, mae'r ymgais aflwyddiannus i gyflawni Brexit eisoes wedi costio biliynau o bunnoedd—punnoedd y gellid bod wedi'u gwario ar ysbytai, ysgolion a gwasanaethau cyhoeddus hanfodol eraill, ac wedi eisoes arwain at economi sy'n dipyn yn llai na'r hyn y byddem ni wedi'i weld fel arall.

Fe honnwyd y byddai cytundeb masnach rydd gyda'r Undeb Ewropeaidd gyda'r hawsaf yn hanes dynoliaeth i'w gytuno, ond doedd hynny ddim yn wir. Dŷn ni wedi cael ein llethu mewn trafodaethau sydd wedi profi pa mor anghywir oedd y camargraff bod yr Undeb Ewropeaidd ein hangen ni yn fwy nag ydym ni eu hangen nhw. Dydyn ni ddim wedi hyd yn oed dechrau eto ar drafodaethau go iawn gyda rhannau eraill o'r byd, a dydy Liam Fox ddim hyd yn oed wedi medru sicrhau y bydd gyda ni unrhyw beth yn debyg i'r un mynediad at gwledydd fel Canada a Japan, lle rŷn ni'n manteisio ar hyn o bryd ar gytundeb masnach rydd drwy'r Undeb Ewropeaidd. Yn y cyfamser, mae mwy a mwy o dystiolaeth yn codi o hyd sy'n dangos y bydd unrhyw fath o Brexit yn niweidiol ac y bydd Brexit heb gytundeb yn drychinebus.

Thank you, Llywydd. In a statement a fortnight ago, I said that despite the further extension to the article 50 process, we are no nearer finding a way forward on the UK's exit from the European Union. The UK Government has failed to deliver on the most important issue in our peacetime history and has failed to heal the divisions in our society. In 2016, following years of infighting within the Conservative Government in Westminster, many in our society felt that they had been left behind and forgotten by those with a responsibility to protect the most vulnerable.

According to some, the referendum campaign was the greatest democratic event in our history, but this was the event that caused the greatest divisions, too, and the divisions that already existed were fed by the 'leave' campaign, which tried to persuade voters in any way possible that leaving the European Union would resolve the problems in our society. That was a campaign that was built on effective images, but didn't have any substance, like 'taking back control'. We won't see the UK receiving £350 million per week, as was claimed. Quite the contrary. The unsuccessful efforts to deliver Brexit have already cost billions of pounds, money that could have been spent on hospitals, schools and public services, which are so crucial. This has already led to an economy that is significantly smaller than we would have seen otherwise.

It was claimed that a free trade agreement with the EU would among the easiest in human history to agree, but that wasn't the case. We have been involved in endless negotiations that have proved just how wrong was the perception that the EU needed us more than we needed them. We haven't even started on real negotiations with other parts of the world, and Liam Fox hasn't even managed to ensure that we will have anything like the same access to markets like Canada and Japan, where we currently benefit from a free trade deal through the European Union. In the meantime, there is more and more evidence arising that demonstrates that any kind of Brexit will be damaging, and that a 'no deal' Brexit will be disastrous.

As we were approaching the first cliff edge in March we discussed the implications of a 'no deal' exit based on our understanding of the evidence and the extent that governments, the private sector and wider civic society could try to mitigate those impacts. The UK Government's own analysis estimates the UK economy would be between 6.3 per cent and 9 per cent smaller in the long term in a 'no deal' scenario. The starting figure for Wales is, alarmingly, as much as 8.1 per cent smaller, and those figures don't even account for any short-term disruptions, which would be likely to seriously exacerbate the impacts of a 'no deal' scenario.

Mark Carney, the governor of the Bank of England, has warned that food prices could increase permanently, and the British Retail Consortium estimates families could end up paying an additional £1,000 a year for their shopping. The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders says that a 'no deal' Brexit was gambling with other people's businesses, livelihoods and jobs. We will be disadvantaged, and that will have an impact on business decisions and investment decisions going forward. I am sure that view will have a resonance with automotive workers across Wales. I could go on.

I know the leaders of the 'leave' campaign don't like experts and evidence, but we have a choice. We can listen to reasonable assessments based on the fact that a 'no deal' exit would see an end to frictionless trade, or we could, like the Brexit Party, stick our fingers in our ears and tell ourselves that good times are just around the corner. Llywydd, it's frankly astonishing that, despite the evidence we have on the stark implications of a 'no deal' Brexit, we have this motion before us today, making the same unsubstantiated claims that were mis-sold to the public during the referendum in 2016. It's frankly astonishing that it has only just occurred to Mandy Jones that there are immense problems in trying to negotiate the difficulties we face as we look at Brexit.

This is a motion the Government rejects and I call on the Assembly to do so also. No-one is disputing the fact that a majority in Wales voted to leave the European Union. Many of us tried to find a way of leaving the EU that respected the result of the referendum without decimating our economy. The Welsh Government set out our approach in 'Securing Wales' Future' and took every opportunity to present our evidence-based case to the UK Government and the EU. But, just as no-one disputes the referendum results, no-one surely believes that those voting to leave the EU did so wanting to trash the economy in the way that a 'no deal' outcome would. No-one made the case for 'no deal', no-one voted for 'no deal', 'no deal' has no mandate.

The National Assembly, together with the Scottish Parliament, has rejected a 'no deal' outcome. A majority of Members of Parliament also continue repeatedly to vote against 'no deal'. Those that continue to ignore the reality of the catastrophic consequences of a 'no deal' Brexit are simply acting recklessly with the livelihoods of our citizens and their future security. The Welsh Government will not amend this motion. The position of the Government was clearly expressed in the motion that was passed two weeks ago.

Recent developments in the contest to be the next Tory leader have only further endorsed our position, that by design or default the future Conservative Prime Minister will be taking the UK towards a 'no deal' outcome. Faced with that straight choice between a catastrophic 'no deal' or remaining in the EU, we are unequivocal in backing 'remain' and we continue to call on Parliament to take control of this process and legislate for a referendum as a means of remaining in the European Union.

Wrth inni nesáu at ymyl y clogwyn cyntaf ym mis Mawrth buom yn trafod goblygiadau gadael heb gytundeb ar sail ein dealltwriaeth o'r dystiolaeth a'r graddau y gallai llywodraethau, y sector preifat a'r gymdeithas ddinesig ehangach geisio lliniaru'r effeithiau hynny. Mae dadansoddiad Llywodraeth y DU ei hun yn amcangyfrif y byddai economi'r DU rhwng 6.3 y cant a 9 y cant yn llai yn y tymor hir mewn senario 'dim bargen'. Yn frawychus, mae'r ffigur cychwynnol ar gyfer Cymru cymaint ag 8.1 y cant yn llai, ac nid yw'r ffigurau hynny hyd yn oed yn cyfrif unrhyw amharu yn y tymor byr a fyddai'n debygol o waethygu effeithiau senario 'dim bargen' yn ddifrifol.

Mae Mark Carney, llywodraethwr Banc Lloegr, wedi rhybuddio y gallai prisiau bwyd godi'n barhaol, ac mae Consortiwm Manwerthu Prydain yn amcangyfrif y gallai teuluoedd yn y pen draw dalu £1,000 y flwyddyn yn ychwanegol am eu siopa. Mae Cymdeithas y Gwneuthurwyr a Masnachwyr Moduron yn dweud bod Brexit 'dim bargen' yn gamblo gyda busnesau, bywoliaeth a swyddi pobl eraill. Byddwn dan anfantais, a chaiff hynny effaith ar benderfyniadau busnes a phenderfyniadau buddsoddi yn y dyfodol. Rwy'n siŵr y bydd y farn honno'n taro tant gyda gweithwyr modurol ledled Cymru. Gallwn fynd ymlaen.

Rwy'n gwybod nad yw arweinwyr yr ymgyrch dros 'adael' yn hoffi arbenigwyr a thystiolaeth, ond mae gennym ddewis. Gallwn wrando ar asesiadau rhesymol yn seiliedig ar y ffaith y byddai gadael heb gytundeb yn rhoi diwedd ar fasnachu diffrithiant, neu fel Plaid Brexit, gallem roi ein bysedd yn ein clustiau a dweud wrthym ein hunain fod adegau da ar fin dod i'n rhan. Lywydd, mae'n rhyfeddol a dweud y gwir, er gwaethaf y dystiolaeth sydd gennym am oblygiadau llym Brexit 'dim bargen', fod gennym y cynnig hwn ger ein bron heddiw, yn gwneud yr un honiadau di-sail a gamwerthwyd i'r cyhoedd yn ystod y refferendwm yn 2016. Mae'n syndod, a dweud y gwir, mai newydd daro Mandy Jones y mae fod yna broblemau enfawr wrth geisio trafod yr anawsterau sy'n ein hwynebu wrth inni edrych ar Brexit.

Mae'r Llywodraeth yn gwrthod y cynnig hwn a galwaf ar y Cynulliad i wneud hynny hefyd. Nid oes neb yn gwadu'r ffaith bod mwyafrif yng Nghymru wedi pleidleisio dros adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Ceisiodd llawer ohonom ddod o hyd i ffordd o adael yr UE a oedd yn parchu canlyniad y refferendwm heb ddinistrio ein heconomi. Nododd Llywodraeth Cymru ein hymagwedd yn 'Diogelu Dyfodol Cymru' a manteisiodd ar bob cyfle i gyflwyno ein hachos sy'n seiliedig ar dystiolaeth i Lywodraeth y DU a'r UE. Ond yn yr un modd nad oes neb yn amau canlyniadau'r refferendwm, does bosibl nad oes neb yn credu bod y rhai a bleidleisiodd dros adael yr UE yn gwneud hynny gan ddymuno chwalu'r economi yn y ffordd y byddai canlyniad 'dim bargen' yn ei wneud. Ni wnaeth neb ddadlau o blaid gadael heb gytundeb, ni wnaeth neb bleidleisio o blaid gadael heb gytundeb, nid oes mandad i adael heb gytundeb.

Mae'r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, ynghyd â Senedd yr Alban, wedi gwrthod canlyniad 'dim bargen'. Mae mwyafrif yr Aelodau Seneddol hefyd yn parhau i bleidleisio yn erbyn gadael heb gytundeb dro ar ôl tro. Mae'r rhai sy'n parhau i anwybyddu realiti canlyniadau trychinebus Brexit 'dim bargen' yn gweithredu'n ddiofal gyda bywoliaeth ein dinasyddion a'u diogelwch yn y dyfodol. Ni fydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn cynnig gwelliannau i'r cynnig hwn. Mynegwyd safbwynt y Llywodraeth yn glir yn y cynnig a basiwyd bythefnos yn ôl.

Mae datblygiadau diweddar yn yr ornest i fod yn arweinydd nesaf y Torïaid wedi cadarnhau ein safbwynt ymhellach, sef y bydd Prif Weinidog Ceidwadol y Deyrnas Unedig, naill ai drwy fwriad neu drwy ddiffyg, yn mynd â'r DU tuag at ganlyniad 'dim bargen'. Yn wyneb y dewis syml hwnnw rhwng 'dim bargen' trychinebus neu'n aros yn yr UE, rydym yn bendant yn cefnogi 'aros' ac rydym yn parhau i alw ar y Senedd i gymryd rheolaeth ar y broses hon a deddfu ar gyfer refferendwm fel modd o aros yn yr Undeb Ewropeaidd.

18:45

Galwaf ar Caroline Jones i ymateb i'r ddadl.

I call on Caroline Jones to reply to the debate. 

Diolch, Llywydd. I'd like to thank everybody who took part in this debate. Regardless of the difference of opinions, every contribution in this debate has been valuable and respected. 

In opening, Mark Reckless highlighted the Conservatives' 'delete all' motion. I would just like to say that the confusion and disarray of the Conservative UK Government has now been transferred to Wales. Helen Mary Jones made a valid point in her intervention and she said that had there been successful negotiations from the Conservative Government then perhaps people, whatever they voted, could have all come together, negotiated, spoken, and we would have had some sort of outcome that would have been acceptable to the people of Wales. Mark stated in his contribution that he would prefer a deal, but we don't know if that's possible because of the UK's negotiating power.

Diolch, Lywydd. Hoffwn ddiolch i bawb a gymerodd ran yn y ddadl hon. Er gwaethaf y gwahaniaeth barn, mae pob cyfraniad yn y ddadl hon wedi bod yn werthfawr ac yn haeddu parch.

Wrth agor, tynnodd Mark Reckless sylw at gynnig 'dileu popeth' y Ceidwadwyr. Hoffwn ddweud bod dryswch ac anhrefn Llywodraeth Geidwadol y DU bellach wedi'i drosglwyddo i Gymru. Gwnaeth Helen Mary Jones bwynt dilys yn ei hymyriad a dywedodd, pe bai negodiadau llwyddiannus wedi bod gan y Llywodraeth Geidwadol, efallai y gallai pobl, sut bynnag roeddent wedi pleidleisio, fod wedi dod at ei gilydd, wedi negodi, wedi siarad, ac y byddem wedi cael rhyw fath o ganlyniad a fyddai wedi bod yn dderbyniol i bobl Cymru. Dywedodd Mark yn ei gyfraniad y byddai'n well ganddo gael cytundeb, ond nid ydym yn gwybod a yw hynny'n bosibl oherwydd pŵer negodi'r DU.

Will you take an intervention?

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

I have three minutes, Darren; I'm sorry. 

So, whilst many of you may disagree with our position, which you do, you must accept that the people of Wales voted in one of the biggest democratic processes in our nation's history. They voted decisively to leave behind them the bureaucracy and protectionism in favour of a future free from being in the EU. [Interruption.] I will be.

So, to those who are doing all they can to thwart Brexit, please remember that our constituents wanted us to leave the EU and trusted the UK Government to carry out this process, which they have not been able to do. People are telling me quite a lot of the time that they are fed up of politicians telling them that they didn't know what they voted for and that politicians know better. The recent result of the EU elections indeed showed that people did know what they voted for. My party, Plaid Brexit, which didn't exist until a few months ago, came first in 86 per cent of council areas in Wales, and that should now tell people the depth of feeling here in Wales. 

So, I think there is for all here an opportunity for everyone to put aside differences to honour what the people of Wales voted for, and let's try and deliver the best that we can for the people.

Mae gennyf dri munud, Darren; mae'n ddrwg gennyf.

Felly, er bod llawer ohonoch efallai'n anghytuno â'n safbwynt, ac rydych chi'n anghytuno, rhaid i chi dderbyn bod pobl Cymru wedi pleidleisio yn un o'r prosesau democrataidd mwyaf yn hanes ein cenedl. Fe wnaethant bleidleisio'n bendant dros adael y fiwrocratiaeth a'r ddiffynnaeth ac o blaid dyfodol yn rhydd o fod yn yr UE. [Torri ar draws.] Fe fyddaf.

Felly, i'r rhai sy'n gwneud popeth yn eu gallu i rwystro Brexit, cofiwch fod ein hetholwyr am i ni adael yr UE ac wedi ymddiried yn Llywodraeth y DU i gyflawni'r broses hon, rhywbeth nad ydynt wedi gallu ei wneud. Mae pobl yn dweud wrthyf lawer o'r amser eu bod wedi cael llond bol ar wleidyddion yn dweud wrthynt nad oeddent yn gwybod dros beth roeddent yn pleidleisio a bod gwleidyddion yn gwybod yn well. Dangosodd canlyniad diweddar etholiadau'r UE yn wir fod pobl yn gwybod dros beth roeddent yn pleidleisio. Daeth fy mhlaid i, Plaid Brexit, nad oedd yn bodoli tan ychydig fisoedd yn ôl, yn gyntaf mewn 86 y cant o ardaloedd cyngor yng Nghymru, a dylai hynny ddweud wrth bobl yn awr pa mor gryf yw'r teimlad yma yng Nghymru.

Felly, credaf fod cyfle i bawb yma roi gwahaniaethau o'r neilltu er mwyn anrhydeddu'r hyn y pleidleisiodd pobl Cymru drosto, a gadewch inni geisio gyflawni'r gorau sy'n bosibl i'r bobl.

Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Gohiriaf y bleidlais, felly, tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting until voting time.

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Voting deferred until voting time.

18:50
9. Cyfnod Pleidleisio
9. Voting Time

Sy'n dod â ni i'r cyfnod pleidleisio. Oni bai bod tri Aelod yn dymuno i fi ganu'r gloch, dwi'n symud yn syth i'r bleidlais.

Mae'r bleidlais gyntaf, felly, ar y cynnig i ddirymu Rheoliadau’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Y Gymraeg mewn Gwasanaethau Gofal Sylfaenol) (Diwygiadau Amrywiol) (Cymru) 2019. Dwi'n galw am bleidlais ar y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw Dai Lloyd. Agorwch y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 19, tri yn ymatal, 27 yn erbyn. Felly, mae'r cynnig wedi ei wrthod.

That brings us to voting time. Unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, I will move immediately to the vote.

The first vote is on the motion to annul the National Health Service (Welsh Language in Primary Care Services) (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) Regulations 2019. I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Dai Lloyd. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 19, three abstentions, 27 against. Therefore the motion is not agreed.

NDM7057 Cynnig i ddirymu Rheoliadau’r Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Y Gymraeg mewn Gwasanaethau Gofal Sylfaenol) (Diwygiadau Amrywiol) (Cymru) 2019: O blaid: 19, Yn erbyn: 27, Ymatal: 3

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig

NDM7057 Motion to annul the National Health Service (Welsh Language in Primary Care Services) (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) Regulations 2019: For: 19, Against: 27, Abstain: 3

Motion has been rejected

Y bleidlais nesaf, felly, yw'r bleidlais ar y ddadl Brexit ar adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Dwi'n galw am bleidlais ar y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw Caroline Jones. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid pedwar, neb yn ymatal, 45 yn erbyn. Ac felly, mae'r cynnig wedi ei wrthod.

The next vote is the vote on the Brexit Party debate on leaving the European Union. I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Caroline Jones. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour four, no abstentions, 45 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed.

NDM7071 - Dadl Plaid Brexit - Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 4, Yn erbyn: 45, Ymatal: 0

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig

NDM7071 Brexit Party Debate - Motion without amendment: For: 4, Against: 45, Abstain: 0

Motion has been rejected

Sy'n dod â ni at y gwelliannau. Gwelliant 1 yn gyntaf. Galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 1 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid naw, dau yn ymatal, 38 yn erbyn. Ac felly, mae'r gwelliant wedi ei wrthod. 

Which brings us to the amendments. Amendment 1 first. I call for a vote on amendment 1 tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour nine, two abstentions, 38 against. Therefore the amendment is not agreed.

NDM7071 - Gwelliant 1: O blaid: 9, Yn erbyn: 38, Ymatal: 2

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant

NDM7071 - Amendment 1: For: 9, Against: 38, Abstain: 2

Amendment has been rejected

Felly, dyw'r gwelliant na'r cynnig wedi eu derbyn, ac felly does yna ddim pleidlais bellach.

Therefore, as the Assembly has not agreed the motion or the amendment, there is no further voting on this item.

10. Dadl Fer: Tlodi yng Nghymru: Beth sy'n ei achosi a beth y gellir ei wneud i'w liniaru
10. Short Debate: Poverty in Wales: What is causing it and what can be done to alleviate it

Sy'n dod â ni wedyn at eitem olaf y prynhawn yma. Os caf i ofyn i Aelodau i adael yn dawel, yn gwrtais ac yn gyflym.

Dwi'n galw ar y ddadl fer. Mae'r ddadl fer yn cael ei chyflwyno gan Mike Hedges. Mike Hedges.

Which brings us to the final item today. If I could ask Members to leave the Chamber quietly and quickly.

I call on Mike Hedges to present the short debate. Mike Hedges.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I've given a minute to Dawn Bowden in this debate. This is about in-work poverty. The state of the Welsh economy, poverty and low pay are all interrelated.

A successful Welsh economy should drive up wages and reduce poverty. Too many of the people living in Wales are employed on 'flexible'—which I call 'exploitative'—contracts, with no guarantee of weekly income based on variable hours and the Government-set minimum wage. Whilst much of the recent debate has been on zero-hours contracts, unfortunately this is not the only 'flexible' employment practice used by employers. Other flexible employment practices include short guaranteed hours, split shifts, annualised hours and using agency staff. As well as the traditional short-term and temporary contracts, there has been a growth in the number of these new employment practices.

Increasing numbers of companies are taking on staff on zero-hours contracts, where people agree to be available for work as and when required, but have no guaranteed hours or times of work. Zero-hours contracts provide employers with a pool of people who are on call, and that puts all the financial risk on the employee whose income is not guaranteed. This is an example of the old 'waiting outside the docks to be called', except now you wait at home for a text message.

A variation on zero-hours contracts is where there is a guarantee of as little as one hour a day, and when people arrive at work they then discover how long the shift is going to be. Starting at 8 a.m., you may finish at 9.00 a.m. or have to work until late in the evening, possible 9.00 p.m., depending on the workload and the number of people who are available that day. This is a highly disruptive work pattern because you are unable to make plans for any part of the day until the day itself, and also wages vary from week to week. One concern is that if zero-hours contracts get banned, this will be their replacement, and far too many people—they go in, they start work, and then they discover when they're going to be going home. But if you're looking after children or you've got caring responsibilities for parents or other people, it makes life incredibly difficult when you've got no guarantee of hours. When I came in this morning, I knew I was going to leave here about 7.30 p.m., and when I come in tomorrow I know I'm going to leave here at about 1.30 p.m. Too many people, they come into work and they've got no idea when they're going to be going home. It just completely disrupts their lives. 

Diolch, Lywydd. Rwyf wedi rhoi munud i Dawn Bowden yn y ddadl hon. Mae'r ddadl yn ymwneud â thlodi mewn gwaith. Mae cydberthynas rhwng cyflwr economi Cymru, tlodi a chyflogau isel.

Dylai economi Gymreig lwyddiannus godi cyflogau a lleihau tlodi. Mae gormod o'r bobl sy'n byw yng Nghymru yn cael eu cyflogi ar gontractau 'hyblyg'—contractau a alwaf yn rhai 'camfanteisiol'—contractau heb unrhyw sicrwydd o incwm wythnosol yn seiliedig ar oriau amrywiol a'r isafswm cyflog a bennir gan y Llywodraeth. Er bod llawer o'r drafodaeth ddiweddar wedi canolbwyntio ar gontractau dim oriau, yn anffodus nid dyma'r unig arfer cyflogaeth 'hyblyg' a ddefnyddir gan gyflogwyr. Mae arferion cyflogaeth hyblyg eraill yn cynnwys oriau gwarantedig byr, rhannu sifftiau, oriau blynyddol a defnyddio staff asiantaeth. Yn ogystal â'r contractau byrdymor a dros dro traddodiadol, gwelwyd cynnydd yn nifer yr arferion cyflogaeth newydd hyn.

Mae nifer gynyddol o gwmnïau yn cyflogi staff ar gontractau dim oriau, lle mae pobl yn cytuno i fod ar gael i weithio yn ôl yr angen, ond heb unrhyw oriau nac amseroedd gwaith gwarantedig. Mae contractau dim oriau yn darparu cronfa o bobl ar alwad i gyflogwyr, ac mae hynny'n rhoi'r holl risg ariannol ar ysgwyddau'r cyflogai nad yw eu hincwm wedi'i warantu. Dyma enghraifft o'r hen 'aros y tu allan i'r dociau i gael eich galw', ond nawr rydych yn aros gartref am neges destun.

Un amrywiad ar gontractau dim oriau yw lle ceir gwarant o gyn lleied ag awr y dydd, a phan fydd pobl yn cyrraedd y gwaith byddant yn darganfod bryd hynny pa mor hir fydd y sifft. Gan ddechrau am 8 a.m., efallai y byddwch yn gorffen am 9.00 a.m. neu efallai bydd rhaid i chi weithio tan yn hwyr gyda'r nos, tan 9.00 p.m. o bosibl, yn dibynnu ar y llwyth gwaith a nifer y bobl sydd ar gael y diwrnod hwnnw. Mae hwn yn batrwm gwaith aflonyddgar iawn gan na allwch wneud cynlluniau ar gyfer unrhyw ran o'r diwrnod tan y diwrnod ei hun, ac mae cyflogau hefyd yn amrywio o wythnos i wythnos. Un pryder, os caiff contractau dim oriau eu gwahardd, yw mai dyma a ddaw yn eu lle, ac i lawer gormod o bobl—byddant yn mynd i mewn, yn dechrau gweithio, ac yna'n darganfod pryd y byddant yn mynd adref. Ond os ydych yn gofalu am blant neu os oes gennych gyfrifoldebau gofalu am rieni neu bobl eraill, mae'n gwneud bywyd yn eithriadol o anodd pan nad oes gennych unrhyw oriau gwarantedig. Pan ddeuthum i mewn y bore yma, roeddwn yn gwybod fy mod yn mynd i adael tua 7.30 p.m., a phan fyddaf yn dod i mewn yfory rwy'n gwybod y byddaf yn gadael tua 1.30 p.m. Mae gormod o bobl yn mynd i'r gwaith ac nid oes ganddynt syniad pryd y byddant yn mynd adref. Mae'n amharu'n llwyr ar eu bywydau.  

18:55

Daeth Joyce Watson i’r Gadair.

Joyce Watson took the Chair.

Both zero hours and short weekly or daily guaranteed hours mean that there is no certainty of income on a weekly or monthly basis. This leads to severe financial problems when few or no hours are worked in any weeks. And the one thing is: never be ill, because when you're ill you go back to either your minimum one hour or zero hours, and the food bank is the only hope of food.

Using staff employed via an agency means that most employment responsibilities are then with the agency. After 12 weeks in the same role working for the same employer, agency workers are entitled to the same employment and working conditions as permanent staff. Crucially, however, agency workers are not entitled to benefits such as occupational sick pay, redundancy pay and health insurance, the right to claim for unfair dismissal, and minimum notice of redundancy where they are working. This means that agency staff are much easier to dismiss than directly employed staff because they are employed by the agency, not the company they are working at. And also, the 12 weeks are very important, because after 11 weeks if you move them on and then they come back a fortnight later, the 12 weeks that you have to work for those rights start again at day one. 

The renaming of the minimum wage as the living wage has obviously caused some confusion, as there was already a national living wage calculated by the Living Wage Foundation. Almost 6 million workers in the UK are currently paid less than the living wage as defined by the Living Wage Foundation. I believe that the case for everyone to be paid at least the real living wage, as defined by the Living Wage Foundation, is really an overwhelming argument. I don't believe that it makes sense that the Government enforces a minimum wage that is not considered enough to live on, and renaming it the living wage can only lead to confusion with the real living wage, which is why I believe the living wage, as defined by the Living Wage Foundation, is desperately needed for everybody. This is not about having exotic lifestyles; it just means you can live.

One of the biggest problems facing us in Wales today is in-work poverty, which is something the living wage would help address, and one of the Westminster Government’s biggest problems is paying in-work benefits, which, again, paying a living wage would help address. I believe that the Government has a moral duty to ensure a decent standard of living for all.

We also know that we're doing very well on the number of people unemployed, but if you have somebody working 40 hours who's then replaced by two people on 15 hours and one person on 10 hours, you've actually increased the number of people employed by two, which is good on unemployment, but instead of having one relatively well-paid worker, you've got three very low-paid workers, and that affects not just the people, it affects the benefits they're getting, and it also affects the tax take for the Government in Westminster.

There are also benefits for employers, the Living Wage Foundation report says. A living wage employer ensures that all employees are paid at least the living wage; this includes individuals who work on a regular basis at your premises for a contractor or subcontractor, such as cleaners or security staff. Living wage employers report improved morale, lower turnover of staff, reduced absenteeism, increased productivity and improved customer service.

Our ambition for Wales must be to create a high-wage and high-skilled economy, and becoming a living wage country would be one further step along that road. 'We cannot afford it and it will cost jobs' has been the argument used against all progressive change, from the abolition of slavery to the minimum wage. 'No, we can't afford it, it'll bring bankruptcy.' I remember when we were fighting for the minimum wage, one of the great successes of Tony Blair and the Labour Government in 1997, people said, 'Oh, we'll have to make people redundant; we'll have to cut staff', as if employing people was a philanthropic gesture that employers did, and that they would stop doing it because they'd have to pay more. What you actually found was that more people got into employment because you had more money in the local economy, and it pushed up demand.

We won the battle over the minimum wage; the loss of jobs didn't occur. It may have reduced sales of top-of-the-range cars, but it put money in people’s pockets and really helped local economies. If we pay people who are relatively poor more money, they spend it locally. If you pay people who are very rich more money, they tend to spend it in other places. Really, we do need to become a living wage country, but we need more than that. I believe that being a living wage country would make Wales a fairer country, and this is a policy that all of us living in Wales could be proud and one that we as socialists, on our side, should be campaigning for.

Actions that the Welsh Government can take, and I've asked for this before and I'll ask for it again, and I'll keep asking for it: ensure all public sector workers employed by bodies directly funded by the Welsh Government are paid the real living wage; make paying the real living wage a pre-condition for contracting with public sector bodies funded via the Welsh Government, either directly or indirectly; make paying the real living wage a pre-condition of grants and loans to private companies; banning exploitative contracts by Welsh Government-funded bodies and their contractors and subcontractors; making financial support for companies, both grants and loans, dependent on non-exploitative contracts.

This only gets us so far, but it gets us a long way—. We should not be helping and supporting poverty pay. We should not be helping and supporting exploitation. 

What we need, however, is more higher paid employment. The Welsh economy is significantly weak. I've told the Welsh Government many times that we are very low on high-paid sectors and when we have the reports coming in on where we are weak, it says things like 'ICT', and it says things like 'banking and insurance', and it says things about professional services—the real, top-of-the-range, high-paid areas.

So, what do we need to do in Wales? I believe that we need to work more closely with the universities: Aarhus, for example, and the business park model, and Manheim has a centre for innovation and entrepreneurship. We know they work in those cities. There's no reason they can't work here. It's easy to say, 'Oh, Cambridge is very successful; it's got a science park.' Swansea, Cardiff and Cambridge? No. But could we be the same as Manheim and Aarhus? There's no reason why we couldn't. Manheim is the second city within its Länder and Aarhus is the second city in Denmark—not dissimilar to Swansea.

Whilst the term 'technium' has become synonymous with failure, the initial idea of using it in Swansea to provide facilities for start-up companies spinning out of the university was a good one, but labelling all advanced factories as techniums was doomed to failure.

There are some simple and quick actions that could be carried out to improve the Welsh economy: provide larger loans through the commercial bank to medium-sized companies. We don't grow companies from medium to large. In fact, the only company I can think of that has done it in recent years is Admiral. We really need to push companies up from medium to large, because far too many medium-sized companies, unfortunately, sell out.

We could provide loans against overseas assets and let Government contracts of such size that medium-sized Welsh companies can bid. We need to make it easier for microcompanies to expand. What we need to do is grow in key economic sectors. Why is Dundee a major producer of computer games? That's another city—I've tried to pick cities that are not the great cities of the world, but cities that we in Wales have cities very similar to.

Computer games can be produced anywhere in the world. Abertay found political and financial backing to establish a new department, offering the world's first computer games degree in 1997. There are now a clutch of related degrees, including games design and production management, and an intriguing BSc course called 'ethical hacking'. Hundreds of games graduates are turned out by Abertay every year, including David Jones, founder of DMA Design. After Lemmings in 1991, it released the first edition of the controversial game Grand Theft Auto in 1997. It sold in the millions, and new versions continue to top the games ratings. Trained games makers are in demand in the games industry worldwide. A significant number of them stay on in the area, creating games and building new companies with teams they met while studying.

The creation of an Aarhus-type business park or Manheim’s centre for innovation and entrepreneurship, or Dundee developing industries in conjunction with the university—these are not difficult things; these are what we have to do if we are going to grow our economy. What we need are policies that work to support the growth of Welsh companies and establish new ones. We in Wales are no less skilled, entrepreneurial and capable than anywhere else in the world. What we have to do is ensure that we can turn these companies out in Wales, and let's get people paid good wages and that would really drive our economy up. Thank you.

Mae dim oriau ac oriau wythnosol neu ddyddiol gwarantedig byr yn golygu nad oes sicrwydd incwm ar sail wythnosol neu fisol. Mae hyn yn arwain at broblemau ariannol difrifol pan nad oes llawer o oriau, os o gwbl, yn cael eu gweithio mewn unrhyw wythnosau. A'r peth pwysig yw: peidiwch byth â bod yn sâl, oherwydd pan fyddwch yn sâl byddwch yn mynd yn ôl naill ai i'ch lleiafswm o un awr neu ddim oriau, a'r banc bwyd yw'r unig obaith o gael bwyd.

Mae defnyddio staff a gyflogir drwy asiantaeth yn golygu mai'r asiantaeth sydd â'r rhan fwyaf o gyfrifoldebau cyflogaeth. Ar ôl 12 wythnos yn yr un rôl yn gweithio i'r un cyflogwr, mae hawl gan weithwyr asiantaeth i gael yr un amodau cyflogaeth a gwaith â staff parhaol. Yn hollbwysig, fodd bynnag, nid oes gan weithwyr asiantaeth hawl i gael budd-daliadau megis tâl salwch galwedigaethol, tâl dileu swydd ac yswiriant iechyd, yr hawl i wneud cais am ddiswyddo annheg, a rhybudd diswyddo lleiaf lle byddant yn gweithio. Mae hyn yn golygu bod staff asiantaeth yn llawer haws i'w diswyddo na staff a gyflogir yn uniongyrchol oherwydd eu bod yn cael eu cyflogi gan yr asiantaeth, nid y cwmni lle maent yn gweithio. A hefyd, mae'r 12 wythnos yn bwysig iawn, oherwydd ar ôl 11 wythnos os byddwch yn eu symud ymlaen a'u bod yn dychwelyd bythefnos yn ddiweddarach, mae'r 12 wythnos sy'n rhaid i chi ei weithio i gael yr hawliau hynny'n ailddechrau unwaith eto gyda'r diwrnod cyntaf.

Mae ailenwi'r isafswm cyflog yn gyflog byw wedi achosi peth dryswch yn amlwg, gan fod cyflog byw cenedlaethol eisoes wedi'i gyfrifo gan y Living Wage Foundation. Ar hyn o bryd, mae bron i 6 miliwn o weithwyr yn y DU yn cael llai o gyflog na'r cyflog byw fel y'i diffinnir gan y Living Wage Foundation. Credaf fod yr achos dros dalu o leiaf y cyflog byw go iawn, fel y'i diffinnir gan y Living Wage Foundation, i bawb yn ddadl wirioneddol gref. Nid wyf yn credu ei bod hi'n gwneud synnwyr fod y Llywodraeth yn gorfodi isafswm cyflog nad ystyrir ei fod yn ddigon i allu byw arno, a bydd ei ailenwi'n gyflog byw yn arwain at ddrysu rhyngddo a'r cyflog byw go iawn, a dyna pam y credaf fod angen dybryd i bawb gael y cyflog byw fel y'i diffinnir gan y Living Wage Foundation. Nid oes a wnelo hyn â chael ffyrdd o fyw egsotig; mae ond yn golygu eich bod yn gallu byw.

Un o'r problemau mwyaf sy'n ein hwynebu yng Nghymru heddiw yw tlodi mewn gwaith, sy'n rhywbeth y byddai'r cyflog byw yn helpu i fynd i'r afael ag ef, ac un o broblemau mwyaf Llywodraeth San Steffan yw talu budd-daliadau mewn gwaith, rhywbeth unwaith eto y byddai talu cyflog byw yn helpu i'w ddatrys. Credaf fod gan y Llywodraeth ddyletswydd foesol i sicrhau safon byw sy'n weddus i bawb.

Gwyddom hefyd ein bod yn gwneud yn dda iawn o ran nifer y bobl sy'n ddi-waith, ond os oes gennych rywun sy'n gweithio 40 awr ac yna fod dau berson ar gontractau 15 awr yn dod yn ei le, ac un person ar 10 awr, rydych wedi sicrhau bod dau yn fwy o bobl yn cael eu cyflogi, sy'n dda o ran diweithdra, ond yn hytrach na chael un gweithiwr sy'n cael ei dalu'n gymharol dda, mae gennych dri gweithiwr ar gyflog isel iawn, ac mae hynny'n effeithio nid yn unig ar y bobl, mae'n effeithio ar y budd-daliadau y maent yn eu cael, ac mae hefyd yn effeithio ar dderbyniadau treth y Llywodraeth yn San Steffan.

Mae manteision hefyd i gyflogwyr yn ôl adroddiad y Living Wage Foundation. Mae cyflogwr cyflog byw yn sicrhau bod yr holl gyflogeion yn cael y cyflog byw fan lleiaf; mae hyn yn cynnwys unigolion sy'n gweithio ar sail reolaidd ar eich safle i gontractiwr neu is-gontractiwr, fel glanhawyr neu staff diogelwch. Mae cyflogwyr cyflog byw yn nodi bod morâl yn well, trosiant staff yn is, llai o absenoldeb, mwy o gynhyrchiant a gwell gwasanaeth i gwsmeriaid.

Rhaid i ni anelu i greu economi cyflog uchel a sgiliau uchel, a byddai dod yn wlad cyflog byw yn un cam pellach ar hyd y ffordd honno. 'Ni allwn ei fforddio a bydd yn arwain at lai o swyddi' yw'r ddadl a ddefnyddiwyd yn erbyn pob newid blaengar, o ddiddymu caethwasiaeth i'r isafswm cyflog. 'Na, ni allwn ei fforddio, bydd yn arwain at fethdaliad.' Pan oeddem yn ymladd am yr isafswm cyflog, un o lwyddiannau mawr Tony Blair a'r Llywodraeth Lafur yn 1997, rwy'n cofio pobl yn dweud, 'O, bydd yn rhaid inni ddiswyddo pobl; bydd yn rhaid i ni dorri staff', fel pe bai cyflogi pobl yn weithred ddyngarol y byddai cyflogwyr yn ei gwneud, ac y byddent yn rhoi'r gorau i'w gwneud am y byddai'n rhaid iddynt dalu mwy. Yr hyn a ganfuwyd mewn gwirionedd oedd bod mwy o bobl yn cael eu cyflogi am fod gennych fwy o arian yn yr economi leol, ac roedd yn cynyddu galw.

Enillasom y frwydr dros yr isafswm cyflog; ni chollwyd y swyddi. Efallai ei fod wedi lleihau gwerthiant y ceir mwyaf crand, ond rhoddodd arian ym mhocedi pobl a bu'n help mawr i economïau lleol. Os ydym yn talu mwy o arian i bobl sy'n gymharol dlawd, maent yn ei wario'n lleol. Os ydych yn talu mwy o arian i bobl sy'n gyfoethog iawn, maent yn tueddu i'w wario mewn mannau eraill. Mae gwir angen inni ddod yn wlad cyflog byw, ond mae angen mwy na hynny. Credaf y byddai bod yn wlad cyflog byw yn gwneud Cymru'n wlad decach, ac mae hwn yn bolisi y gallai pob un ohonom sy'n byw yng Nghymru fod yn falch ohono ac yn un y dylem ni fel sosialwyr, ar ein hochr ni, ymgyrchu drosto.

Camau gweithredu y gall Llywodraeth Cymru eu rhoi ar waith, ac rwyf wedi gofyn am hyn o'r blaen a byddaf yn gofyn amdanynt eto, a byddaf yn dal i ofyn amdanynt: sicrhau bod pob gweithiwr sector cyhoeddus a gyflogir gan gyrff a ariennir yn uniongyrchol gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn cael y cyflog byw go iawn; gwneud talu'r cyflog byw go iawn yn rhagamod ar gyfer contractio gyda chyrff sector cyhoeddus a ariennir drwy Lywodraeth Cymru, naill ai'n uniongyrchol neu'n anuniongyrchol; gwneud talu'r cyflog byw go iawn yn rhagamod i grantiau a benthyciadau i gwmnïau preifat; gwahardd contractau camfanteisiol gan gyrff a ariennir gan Lywodraeth Cymru a'u contractwyr a'u his-gontractwyr. gwneud cymorth ariannol i gwmnïau, yn grantiau a benthyciadau, yn ddibynnol ar gontractau nad ydynt yn gamfanteisiol.

Dim ond at ryw bwynt y bydd hyn yn mynd â ni, ond mae'n mynd â ni'n bell—. Ni ddylem annog a chefnogi cyflogau tlodi. Ni ddylem annog a chefnogi camfanteisio.  

Yr hyn sydd ei angen arnom, fodd bynnag, yw mwy o swyddi ar gyflogau uwch. Mae economi Cymru yn hynod o wan. Rwyf wedi dweud wrth Lywodraeth Cymru droeon ein bod yn brin iawn o sectorau cyflog uchel a phan gawn adroddiadau'n dod i mewn yn nodi lle rydym yn wan, mae'n dweud pethau fel 'TGCh', ac mae'n dweud pethau fel 'bancio ac yswiriant', ac mae'n dweud pethau am wasanaethau proffesiynol—y meysydd ar y brig gyda chyflogau uchel.

Felly, beth sydd angen i ni ei wneud yng Nghymru? Credaf fod angen inni weithio'n agosach gyda'r prifysgolion: Aarhus, er enghraifft, a model y parc busnes, ac mae gan Manheim ganolfan ar gyfer arloesi ac entrepreneuriaeth. Gwyddom eu bod yn gweithio yn y dinasoedd hynny. Nid oes unrhyw rheswm pam na allant weithio yma. Mae'n hawdd dweud, 'O, mae Caergrawnt yn llwyddiannus iawn; mae ganddi barc gwyddoniaeth.' Abertawe, Caerdydd a Chaergrawnt? Na. Ond a allem fod yr un fath â Manheim ac Aarhus? Nid oes unrhyw reswm pam na allem. Manheim yw'r ail ddinas o fewn ei Länder ac Aarhus yw'r ail ddinas yn Nenmarc—nid yn annhebyg i Abertawe.

Er bod y term 'technium' wedi dod yn gyfystyr â methiant, roedd y syniad gwreiddiol o'i ddefnyddio yn Abertawe i ddarparu cyfleusterau ar gyfer cwmnïau newydd a ddoi allan o'r brifysgol yn un da, ond roedd labelu pob ffatri ddatblygedig fel canolfannau technium yn sicr o fethu.

Ceir rhai camau syml a chyflym y gellid eu cymryd i wella economi Cymru: darparu benthyciadau mwy drwy'r banc masnachol i gwmnïau canolig eu maint. Nid ydym yn tyfu cwmnïau o faint canolig i fawr. Yn wir, yr unig gwmni y gallaf feddwl amdano sydd wedi gwneud hynny yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf yw Admiral. Mae gwir angen inni wthio cwmnïau o fod yn ganolig i fod yn fawr, gan fod llawer gormod o gwmnïau canolig eu maint, yn anffodus, yn gwerthu allan.

Gallem ddarparu benthyciadau yn erbyn asedau tramor a gosod contractau Llywodraeth o faint y gall cwmnïau canolig eu maint yng Nghymru ymgeisio amdanynt. Mae angen i ni ei gwneud yn haws i ficrogwmnïau ehangu. Mae angen inni dyfu mewn sectorau economaidd allweddol. Pam fod Dundee yn gynhyrchydd gemau cyfrifiadurol pwysig? Dyna ddinas arall—rwyf wedi ceisio dewis dinasoedd nad ydynt yn ddinasoedd mawr y byd, ond dinasoedd y mae gennym ni yng Nghymru ddinasoedd tebyg iawn iddynt.

Gellir cynhyrchu gemau cyfrifiadurol yn unrhyw le yn y byd. Daeth Abertay o hyd i gefnogaeth wleidyddol ac ariannol i sefydlu adran newydd a gynigiai'r radd gyntaf yn y byd mewn gemau cyfrifiadurol yn 1997. Erbyn hyn ceir dyrnaid o raddau cysylltiedig, gan gynnwys dylunio gemau a rheoli cynhyrchu, a chwrs BSc diddorol o'r enw 'hacio moesegol'. Caiff cannoedd o raddedigion gemau eu cynhyrchu gan Abertay bob blwyddyn, gan gynnwys David Jones, sylfaenydd DMA Design. Ar ôl Lemmings yn 1991, rhyddhaodd yr argraffiad cyntaf o'r gêm ddadleuol Grand Theft Auto yn 1997. Gwerthwyd miliynau, ac mae fersiynau newydd yn parhau i ddod i frig siartiau'r gemau. Mae galw am wneuthurwyr gemau hyfforddedig yn y diwydiant gemau ym mhob rhan o'r byd. Mae nifer sylweddol ohonynt yn aros yn yr ardal, yn creu gemau ac yn adeiladu cwmnïau newydd gyda thimau y gwnaethant gyfarfod â hwy wrth astudio.

Creu parc busnes tebyg i Aarhus neu ganolfan Manheim ar gyfer arloesi ac entrepreneuriaeth, neu Dundee yn datblygu diwydiannau ar y cyd â'r Brifysgol—nid yw'r rhain yn bethau anodd; dyma sy'n rhaid inni ei wneud os ydym am dyfu ein heconomi. Yr hyn sydd arnom ei angen yw polisïau sy'n gweithio i gefnogi twf cwmnïau yng Nghymru a sefydlu rhai newydd. Nid ydym ni yng Nghymru yn meddu ar lai o sgiliau, entrepreneuriaeth a gallu nag unman arall yn y byd. Yr hyn sy'n rhaid inni ei wneud yw sicrhau y gallwn greu'r cwmnïau hyn yng Nghymru, a gadewch inni sicrhau cyflogau da i bobl a byddai hynny o ddifrif yn hybu ein heconomi. Diolch.

19:00

Could I thank Mike Hedges for giving me one minute in this debate, and in that minute, I cannot cover all the reasons for poverty or to talk in detail about how we can alleviate it? But I wanted to mention two things that I think we need to recognise. Firstly, the invaluable role of the trade union movement in the fight against poverty. It was the very experience of poverty amongst working people that led to the formation of trade unions, and trade unions are still at the forefront of this work today and retain a critical role in helping fight the current scourge of in-work poverty. Secondly, we know the statistics regarding the work of food banks or the number of people hit by universal credit or the number of people on insecure zero-hours contracts, which Mike has already mentioned, but we need to recognise the importance of continuing to support the call for the Government to prioritise its anti-poverty agenda, because the people I meet in my constituency surgeries, nearly every week, demand that of us—people struggling with debt, people struggling with their energy bills, people unable to pay their private sector rent and not able to find a more suitable alternative, and the children I see in holiday activity schemes also being helped to get a meal that day to deal with holiday hunger. Unless we tackle poverty, we cannot address the lack of money in the local economy in areas of highest deprivation, and such areas will continue in a downward spiral and we must reverse that. Reversing that starts with Government prioritising, by poverty-proofing every aspect of its policy. It makes good economic sense to do so. 

A gaf fi ddiolch i Mike Hedges am roi munud i mi yn y ddadl hon, ac yn y funud honno, ni allaf ymdrin â'r holl resymau dros dlodi na siarad yn fanwl am y modd y gallwn ei leddfu? Ond roeddwn eisiau sôn am ddau beth y credaf fod angen i ni eu cydnabod. Yn gyntaf, rôl amhrisiadwy mudiad yr undebau llafur yn y frwydr yn erbyn tlodi. Y profiad o dlodi ymhlith gweithwyr a arweiniodd at ffurfio undebau llafur, ac mae undebau llafur yn parhau i fod ar flaen y gad yn y gwaith hwn heddiw ac yn parhau i chwarae rôl hanfodol yn helpu i frwydro yn erbyn malltod presennol tlodi mewn gwaith. Yn ail, gwyddom am yr ystadegau'n ymwneud â gwaith banciau bwyd neu nifer y bobl sy'n cael eu taro gan gredyd cynhwysol neu nifer y bobl ar gontractau dim oriau anniogel, a grybwyllwyd gan Mike eisoes, ond mae angen inni gydnabod pwysigrwydd parhau i gefnogi'r alwad ar i'r Llywodraeth flaenoriaethu ei hagenda gwrthdlodi, oherwydd mae'r bobl rwy'n eu cyfarfod yn fy nghymorthfeydd etholaethol bron bob wythnos yn mynnu hynny gennym—pobl sy'n cael trafferth gyda dyled, pobl sy'n cael trafferth gyda'u biliau ynni, pobl sy'n methu talu eu rhent yn y sector preifat ac sy'n methu dod o hyd i ddewis arall mwy addas, ac mae'r plant a welaf mewn cynlluniau gweithgareddau gwyliau hefyd yn cael cymorth i gael pryd o fwyd y diwrnod hwnnw i oresgyn chwant bwyd dros y gwyliau. Os na allwn drechu tlodi, ni allwn fynd i'r afael â diffyg arian yn yr economi leol mewn ardaloedd lle ceir yr amddifadedd mwyaf, a bydd ardaloedd o'r fath yn parhau i ddirywio, a rhaid inni wrthdroi hynny. Mae gwrthdroi hynny'n dechrau gyda blaenoriaethau'r Llywodraeth, drwy brawfesur pob agwedd ar ei pholisi o safbwynt tlodi. Mae'n gwneud synnwyr economaidd da i wneud hynny.

19:05

I call on the Minister for Economy and Transport to reply to the debate—Ken Skates. 

Galwaf ar Weinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth i ymateb i'r ddadl—Ken Skates.

Acting Deputy Presiding Officer, I'd like to thank Members for their contributions to this very important debate today, and I am pleased to have the chance to respond on behalf of the Welsh Government. I'm going to begin by setting out some of the very clear pressures on individuals and communities across the length and breadth of Wales, and the first pressure is very clear: nine years of austerity. I'm sorry to say that the financial policy of the UK Government over almost a decade has been to strip away many of the vital structures that have supported communities over several decades. Cuts to local authority budgets have meant the loss of local facilities, such as libraries, community buildings and public spaces, and it's resulted in the depletion of essential public services such as policing. This is simply not political rhetoric. The special rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights reported recently on this following his visit to the UK. And his view is that

'Much of the glue that has held British society together since the Second World War has been deliberately removed and replaced with a harsh and uncaring ethos'.

He reported that

'A booming economy, high employment and a budget surplus have not reversed austerity, a policy pursued more as an ideological than an economic agenda.'

Let me put into context how different things might have been had this deeply damaging policy not been pursued. Our budgets would have grown by more than £4 billion between 2009 and 2019 had the economy and our budgets grown in line. Had our budgets followed the trend of growth in public expenditure since 1945, we would have had £6 billion of additional investment leveraged at our disposal in Wales. And I think it's inconceivable for any Member of this Chamber to suggest that, in this context, and with that level of cut to our budgets, austerity has not significantly contributed to poverty in Wales. 

Now, the second factor that has had a major impact on levels of poverty in Wales is the UK Government's programme of tax and welfare reforms. As a result of the reforms, it's predicted that there will be 50,000 more children living in poverty in Wales by the time they're fully rolled out. And I think it's outrageous that those who are most vulnerable in our communities are targeted in such a way by these damaging policies. What, then, can we do against this backdrop? Well, we know that we don't have the major levers needed to make a difference to the headline poverty figure. Of course, it's tax and the welfare system that influence this. However, in the absence of a change of direction by the UK Government, we continue to do all that we can to support the most vulnerable in our communities as they try to deal with the disproportionate impact of these destructive policies. The First Minister has, of course, included poverty as an additional priority area in the Welsh Government's budget planning process for 2021, and work is being taken forward by the Minister for Housing and Local Government to review Welsh Government funding programmes to ensure that they have maximum impact on the lives of children living in poverty. 

We have been crystal clear. A child's life chances should not be determined by the economic circumstances of their parents. We do not accept the inevitability of a life in poverty. Our objectives of the child poverty strategy focus as much on supporting parents to increase household income as they do on tackling the inequalities that poverty brings with it. We are taking action to reduce the number of children living in workless households, and to increase the skills of parents and young people. I think, also, it's vitally important to recognise that there are now 300,000 more people in work in Wales since 1999. And the proportion of working-age people with no qualifications has more than halved. Economic inactivity rates in Wales are now broadly comparable with the UK average for the first time ever. 

Mike Hedges made the point that he believes that too few high-value jobs are being created in the economy. I disagree with this assertion. I would say that, in the past, it was the case that, in many circumstances, low-value, poorly paid jobs were often created, but that was in direct and immediate response to the incredibly high levels of unemployment. Today, we are clearly—and we have articulated this through the economic action plan—focusing on raising the quality and value of employment in Wales, particularly through the skills system, with our focus on supporting skills training at level 3 and above. And we only need to look at some of those sectors that provide the highest levels of productivity and wages—financial and professional services, for example, with growth here in Cardiff and across Wales at an astonishing level compared to the rest of the UK. Aerospace is the most productive sector in the British economy, and here in Wales we have a disproportionately high number of people now in employment in that sector—more than 20,000 people in incredibly valued jobs.

Since devolution, the number of workless households in Wales has fallen from almost 0.25 million to 173,000. This represents a decline of 22.4 per cent, again outperforming UK performance. Alongside this, we are taking steps to create a strong economy and labour market that generate sustainable employment opportunities that are truly accessible to all, and this is fundamental to our approach to tackling poverty. Our economic action plan has been designed to support the delivery of a strong, resilient and dynamic economy, and it's a plan to grow the economy inclusively and to reduce inequality. It's driving inclusive growth by maximising our impact on the foundational economy and through a new model of regional place-based economic development that is better attuned to tackling economic disparities in different parts of Wales. And the plan seeks to increase the availability of good-quality jobs and to empower communities with the skills and economic infrastructure that can support better jobs closer to home. A cornerstone of the plan is the economic contract, which is driving fairer, more responsible business practices that have the potential to support inclusive opportunities for work and progression and, of course, to address the rise in insecure, unreliable work, and we will go on working in partnership with those incredibly important social partners, including the trade union movement that Dawn Bowden has spoken about.

We will continue to use all the levers available to us across Government to ensure that individuals, households and communities have the strength and the resilience needed to overcome these challenges. I'd like to thank both Members today for their contributions and reaffirm my commitment to working with them as we take forward this incredibly important work.

Ddirprwy Lywydd dros dro, hoffwn ddiolch i'r Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau i'r ddadl bwysig hon heddiw, ac rwy'n falch o gael cyfle i ymateb ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru. Rwy'n mynd i ddechrau drwy amlinellu peth o'r pwysau amlwg iawn sydd ar unigolion a chymunedau ar hyd a lled Cymru, ac mae'r pwysau cyntaf yn glir iawn: naw mlynedd o gyni. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf ddweud mai polisi ariannol Llywodraeth y DU dros ddegawd bron fu cael gwared ar lawer o'r strwythurau hanfodol sydd wedi cefnogi cymunedau dros nifer o ddegawdau. Mae toriadau i gyllidebau awdurdodau lleol wedi golygu colli cyfleusterau lleol, megis llyfrgelloedd, adeiladau cymunedol a mannau cyhoeddus, ac mae wedi arwain at ddisbyddu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus hanfodol fel plismona. Nid rhethreg wleidyddol yw hyn. Mae'r rapporteur arbennig ar dlodi eithafol a hawliau dynol wedi cyflwyno adroddiad ar hyn yn ddiweddar ar ôl ei ymweliad â'r DU. Ac mae o'r farn fod

llawer o'r glud sydd wedi dal cymdeithas Prydain at ei gilydd ers yr Ail Ryfel Byd wedi cael ei dynnu'n fwriadol ac ethos llym ac angharedig wedi'i osod yn ei le.

Dywedodd nad yw

economi ffyniannus, cyflogaeth uchel a gwarged cyllideb wedi gwrthdroi cyni, polisi a ddilynir yn fwy fel agenda ideolegol nag un economaidd.

Gadewch i mi roi mewn cyd-destun pa mor wahanol y gallai pethau fod wedi bod pe na bai'r polisi hynod niweidiol hwn wedi cael ei ddilyn. Byddai ein cyllidebau wedi tyfu mwy na £4 biliwn rhwng 2009 a 2019 pe bai'r economi a'n cyllidebau wedi tyfu'n unol â hynny. Pe bai ein cyllidebau wedi dilyn y tueddiad o dwf mewn gwariant cyhoeddus ers 1945, byddem wedi denu £6 biliwn o fuddsoddiad ychwanegol at ein defnydd yng Nghymru. A chredaf ei bod yn annirnadwy i unrhyw Aelod o'r Siambr hon awgrymu, yn y cyd-destun hwn, a chyda'r lefel honno o doriad yn ein cyllidebau, nad yw cyni wedi cyfrannu'n sylweddol at dlodi yng Nghymru.  

Nawr, yr ail ffactor sydd wedi cael effaith fawr ar lefelau tlodi yng Nghymru yw rhaglen ddiwygio trethi a lles Llywodraeth y DU. O ganlyniad i'r diwygiadau, rhagwelir y bydd 50,000 yn rhagor o blant yn byw mewn tlodi yng Nghymru erbyn iddynt gael eu cyflwyno'n llawn. Ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn warthus fod y rhai sy'n fwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymunedau yn cael eu targedu yn y fath fodd gan y polisïau niweidiol hyn. Beth y gallwn ei wneud felly yn erbyn y cefndir hwn? Wel, gwyddom nad oes gennym y prif ddulliau sydd eu hangen i wneud gwahaniaeth i'r prif ffigur tlodi. Wrth gwrs, y dreth a'r system les sy'n dylanwadu ar hyn. Fodd bynnag, heb newid cyfeiriad gan Lywodraeth y DU, rydym yn parhau i wneud popeth a allwn i gefnogi'r bobl fwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymunedau wrth iddynt geisio ymdopi ag effaith anghymesur y polisïau dinistriol hyn. Mae'r Prif Weinidog, wrth gwrs, wedi cynnwys tlodi fel maes blaenoriaeth ychwanegol ym mhroses gynllunio cyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer 2021, ac mae gwaith yn mynd rhagddo gan y Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol ar adolygu rhaglenni cyllid Llywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau eu bod yn cael yr effaith fwyaf posibl ar fywydau plant sy'n byw mewn tlodi.  

Rydym wedi bod yn gwbl glir. Ni ddylai amgylchiadau economaidd ei rieni bennu cyfleoedd bywyd plentyn. Nid ydym yn derbyn bod bywyd mewn tlodi'n anochel. Mae amcanion ein strategaeth tlodi plant yn canolbwyntio cymaint ar gynorthwyo rhieni i gynyddu incwm eu cartrefi ag y maent ar fynd i'r afael â'r anghydraddoldebau a ddaw yn sgil tlodi. Rydym yn cymryd camau i leihau nifer y plant sy'n byw ar aelwydydd heb waith, ac i wella sgiliau rhieni a phobl ifanc. Rwy'n credu hefyd ei bod yn hanfodol bwysig cydnabod bod 300,000 yn fwy o bobl mewn gwaith yng Nghymru bellach ers 1999. Ac mae cyfran y bobl o oedran gweithio sydd heb unrhyw gymwysterau wedi mwy na haneru. Mae cyfraddau anweithgarwch economaidd yng Nghymru bellach yn gymharol debyg i gyfartaledd y DU am y tro cyntaf erioed.  

Gwnaeth Mike Hedges y pwynt ei fod yn credu nad oes digon o swyddi uchel eu gwerth yn cael eu creu yn yr economi. Rwy'n anghytuno â'r honiad hwn. Yn y gorffennol, buaswn yn dweud ei bod yn wir yn aml mewn llawer o amgylchiadau fod swyddi gwerth isel, sy'n talu'n wael, yn cael eu creu, ond roedd hynny mewn ymateb uniongyrchol i'r lefelau anhygoel o uchel o ddiweithdra. Heddiw, mae'n amlwg ein bod—ac rydym wedi mynegi hyn drwy'r cynllun gweithredu economaidd—yn canolbwyntio ar godi ansawdd a gwerth cyflogaeth yng Nghymru, yn enwedig drwy'r system sgiliau, gyda'n ffocws ar gefnogi hyfforddiant sgiliau lefel 3 ac uwch. Ac nid oes ond angen inni edrych ar rai o'r sectorau sy'n darparu'r lefelau uchaf o gynhyrchiant a chyflogau—gwasanaethau ariannol a phroffesiynol, er enghraifft, gyda thwf yma yng Nghaerdydd ac ar draws Cymru ar lefel syfrdanol o gymharu â gweddill y DU. Awyrofod yw'r sector mwyaf cynhyrchiol yn economi Prydain, ac yma yng Nghymru mae gennym nifer anghymesur o uchel o bobl yn gweithio yn y sector hwnnw erbyn hyn—mwy nag 20,000 o bobl mewn swyddi gwerthfawr iawn.

Ers datganoli, mae nifer yr aelwydydd di-waith yng Nghymru wedi gostwng o bron 0.25 miliwn i 173,000. Dyna ostyngiad o 22.4 y cant, sydd unwaith eto'n well na pherfformiad y DU. Ynghyd â hyn, rydym yn cymryd camau i greu economi a marchnad lafur gref sy'n creu cyfleoedd cyflogaeth cynaliadwy gwirioneddol hygyrch i bawb, ac mae hyn yn greiddiol i'n hymagwedd tuag at drechu tlodi. Mae ein cynllun gweithredu economaidd wedi'i gynllunio i gefnogi'r gwaith o sicrhau economi gref, gwydn a deinamig, ac mae'n gynllun i dyfu'r economi yn gynhwysol a lleihau anghydraddoldeb. Mae'n sbarduno twf cynhwysol drwy sicrhau ein bod yn cael yr effaith fwyaf posibl ar yr economi sylfaenol a thrwy fodel newydd o ddatblygu economaidd rhanbarthol yn seiliedig ar le sy'n fwy addas ar gyfer goresgyn anghyfartaledd economaidd mewn gwahanol rannau o Gymru. Ac mae'r cynllun yn ceisio sicrhau bod mwy o swyddi o ansawdd da ar gael a grymuso cymunedau gyda'r sgiliau a'r seilwaith economaidd a all gefnogi swyddi gwell yn nes at adref. Un o gonglfeini'r cynllun yw'r contract economaidd sy'n ysgogi arferion busnes tecach a mwy cyfrifol gyda photensial i gefnogi cyfleoedd cynhwysol ar gyfer gwaith a chamu ymlaen mewn gwaith ac wrth gwrs, i fynd i'r afael â'r cynnydd mewn gwaith anniogel, annibynadwy, a byddwn yn parhau i weithio mewn partneriaeth â'r partneriaid cymdeithasol hynod o bwysig hynny, gan gynnwys y mudiad undebau llafur y siaradodd Dawn Bowden amdano.

Byddwn yn parhau i ddefnyddio'r holl ddulliau sydd ar gael i ni ar draws y Llywodraeth er mwyn sicrhau bod gan unigolion, cartrefi a chymunedau y cryfder a'r gwydnwch sydd ei angen i oresgyn yr heriau hyn. Hoffwn ddiolch i'r ddau Aelod heddiw am eu cyfraniadau ac ailddatgan fy ymrwymiad i weithio gyda hwy wrth i ni fwrw ymlaen â'r gwaith hynod bwysig hwn.

19:10

Thank you. And that ends proceedings for today and brings them to a close.

Diolch. A daw hynny â'r trafodion i ben am heddiw.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 19:13.

The meeting ended at 19:13.