National Assembly for Wales

Y Cyfarfod Llawn

Plenary

09/01/2019

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair. 

The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

1. Cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Addysg
1. Questions to the Minister for Education

Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni y prynhawn yma yw'r cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Addysg, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Mandy Jones. 

And the first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the Minister for Education, and the first question is from Mandy Jones. 

Capasiti TG mewn Ysgolion yng Ngogledd Cymru
IT Capacity in Schools in North Wales

Diolch, Llywydd, and a happy new year—blwyddyn newydd dda

Diolch, Lywydd, a blwyddyn newydd dda.

1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gapasiti TG mewn ysgolion yng Ngogledd Cymru? OAQ53153

1. Will the Minister make a statement on IT capacity in schools in North Wales? OAQ53153

The information technology capacity in north Wales varies from school to school. In addition to £5 million for broadband upgrades, I have allocated £1.7 million to support schools in delivering the digital requirements of the new curriculum, with priority given to schools most in need of upgrading in-school infrastructure.

Mae'r capasiti technoleg gwybodaeth yng ngogledd Cymru yn amrywio o ysgol i ysgol. Yn ychwanegol at y £5 miliwn ar gyfer uwchraddio band eang, rwyf wedi dyrannu £1.7 miliwn i gynorthwyo ysgolion i fodloni gofynion digidol y cwricwlwm newydd, gyda blaenoriaeth i’r ysgolion sydd fwyaf o angen uwchraddio seilwaith yr ysgol.

Thank you. Minister, there have been some concerning headlines, both before and after Christmas, around the education sector. I would like to discuss today the report by Qualifications Wales at the end of last year about IT learning, particularly the reference to the out-of-date hardware, software and, in some cases, skills. Minister, can you give an assurance that schools in my region have the hardware, software and teaching staff they need to equip their students with the skills necessary in this digital world?

Diolch. Weinidog, rydym wedi gweld penawdau sy'n peri pryder, cyn ac ar ôl y Nadolig, ynglŷn â'r sector addysg. Heddiw, hoffwn drafod yr adroddiad a gynhyrchwyd gan Cymwysterau Cymru ddiwedd y llynedd ar ddysgu TG, yn enwedig y cyfeiriad at y galedwedd, y feddalwedd, ac mewn rhai achosion, y sgiliau sydd wedi dyddio. Weinidog, a allwch roi sicrwydd fod gan ysgolion yn fy rhanbarth y galedwedd, y feddalwedd a'r staff addysgu sydd eu hangen arnynt i roi'r sgiliau angenrheidiol i'w myfyrwyr yn y byd digidol hwn?

The Member is right to say that we need to ensure that schools have the hardware, both outside of the school premises and in school, to ensure the curriculum can be delivered. As I have said, we have committed £5 million to upgrade broadband as part of the Learning in Digital Wales programme. I'm pleased to say that of the five difficult-to-reach schools identified in north Wales, three of those schools have now been properly connected and two are in the process of being connected. As I mentioned yesterday in answers to questions regarding the beginning of online assessments, further resources have been given to the Welsh Local Government Association to address the internal needs of those schools most in need, and I continue to work with my officials in the LIDW team to look to where we can prioritise further capital investment in this important area. 

Mae'r Aelod yn iawn i ddweud bod angen inni sicrhau bod gan ysgolion y galedwedd, y tu allan i'r ysgol ac yn yr ysgol, i sicrhau y gellir darparu’r cwricwlwm. Fel y dywedais, rydym wedi ymrwymo £5 miliwn i uwchraddio band eang fel rhan o'r rhaglen Dysgu yn y Gymru Ddigidol. Rwy'n falch o ddweud, o’r pum ysgol anodd eu cyrraedd a nodwyd yng ngogledd Cymru, fod tair o'r ysgolion hynny bellach wedi'u cysylltu, a bod dwy ohonynt wrthi’n cael eu cysylltu. Fel y soniais ddoe wrth ateb cwestiynau ynglŷn â dechrau asesiadau ar-lein, mae Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru wedi derbyn adnoddau pellach i fynd i'r afael ag anghenion mewnol yr ysgolion mwyaf anghenus hynny, ac rwy’n parhau i weithio gyda fy swyddogion yn y tîm Dysgu yn y Gymru Ddigidol i nodi ble y gallwn flaenoriaethu buddsoddiad cyfalaf pellach yn y maes pwysig hwn.

Diolch, Llywydd, a blwyddyn newydd dda. 

Thank you, Llywydd, and a happy new year.

Minister, as you will be aware, twenty-first century technology, such as superfast broadband, is of increasing importance to our primary schools, with more bilingual digital tools and resources now available online. One major example where IT is of significant importance, of course, is the new e-sgol pilot project. As you will be aware, this has seen the use of video technology to connect classrooms in different schools across Ceredigion and Powys. I'm aware that £279,000 capital funding has been allocated to Ceredigion council to buy specialist equipment to pilot e-sgol in 13 schools. Obviously, this looks to be a good initiative. However, it is a considerable spend that could amount to millions if you are going to roll out the scheme out across Wales. 

Therefore, what assurances can you provide us with here today that the e-sgol project was well costed before the pilot began and is being monitored against spend in terms of performance? And can you clarify whether you will be making the finance available following the review later on this year? If it has been a successful scheme in Ceredigion, will you be rolling it out across north Wales, and, indeed, Aberconwy?

Weinidog, fel y gwyddoch, mae technoleg yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, fel band eang cyflym iawn, yn fwyfwy pwysig i'n hysgolion cynradd, gyda mwy o offer ac adnoddau digidol dwyieithog ar gael ar-lein bellach. Un enghraifft bwysig lle mae TG o bwysigrwydd sylweddol, wrth gwrs, yw'r prosiect peilot newydd e-sgol. Fel y gwyddoch, mae hyn wedi arwain at y defnydd o dechnoleg fideo i gysylltu ystafelloedd dosbarth mewn gwahanol ysgolion ledled Ceredigion a Phowys. Rwy'n ymwybodol fod £279,000 o arian cyfalaf wedi'i ddyrannu i gyngor Ceredigion er mwyn prynu offer arbenigol i dreialu e-sgol mewn 13 ysgol. Yn amlwg, ymddengys bod hon yn fenter dda. Fodd bynnag, mae'n wariant sylweddol a allai fod yn filiynau os ydych yn mynd i gyflwyno'r cynllun ledled Cymru.

Felly, pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi inni yma heddiw fod prosiect e-sgol wedi ei brisio’n drwyadl cyn i'r cynllun peilot ddechrau, a’i fod yn cael ei fonitro yn erbyn gwariant o ran ei berfformiad? Ac a allwch egluro a fyddwch yn darparu’r cyllid yn dilyn yr adolygiad yn nes ymlaen eleni? Os bydd wedi bod yn gynllun llwyddiannus yng Ngheredigion, a fyddwch yn ei gyflwyno ar draws gogledd Cymru, ac yn wir, yn Aberconwy?

I'm glad that the Member is aware of the innovative e-sgol project that is indeed being piloted for the Welsh Government by Ceredigion County Council. It builds on the experience of the Scottish Government in delivering education in the highlands and islands. Sometimes, we are concerned about our rurality; well, delivering education in those circumstances, in a bilingual system, the same as we have, certainly is a challenge. I was delighted to launch the project at the high school in Lampeter, and I saw for myself the innovative delivery of a further maths lesson bilingually to pupils in that school and another school in Ceredigion. Without that project, the pupils in the other school simply would not be able to take further maths A-level, a qualification that is highly desired by some top universities. 

The e-sgol project is an important part of our rural schools education plan. The project is not designed to be a whole-Wales project. It is part of the solution to some of the logistical disadvantages of delivering education in a rural area. We will, of course, be evaluating the scheme in terms of value for money, but, more importantly, the impact that it has on the opportunities for students in rural areas, and if the scheme follows the success of the Scottish scheme, which I believe firmly that it will, then we will be looking to roll it out in other rural local authorities, because no matter where a child is educated in Wales, whether it be in an urban setting or a rural setting, they deserve to have the best possible opportunities. 

Rwy'n falch fod yr Aelod yn ymwybodol o brosiect arloesol e-sgol sydd, yn wir, yn cael ei dreialu ar gyfer Llywodraeth Cymru gan Gyngor Sir Ceredigion. Mae'n adeiladu ar brofiad Llywodraeth yr Alban o ddarparu addysg yn yr ucheldiroedd a'r ynysoedd. Weithiau, rydym yn poeni am ein gwledigrwydd; wel, mae darparu addysg o dan yr amgylchiadau hynny, mewn system ddwyieithog, fel yr un sydd gennym, yn sicr yn her. Roeddwn yn falch o lansio'r prosiect yn yr ysgol uwchradd yn Llanbedr Pont Steffan, a gwelais wers fathemateg bellach arloesol yn cael ei dysgu’n ddwyieithog i ddisgyblion yn yr ysgol honno ac i ysgol arall yng Ngheredigion. Heb y prosiect hwnnw, ni fyddai'r disgyblion yn yr ysgol arall yn gallu ymgymryd â chwrs mathemateg bellach Safon Uwch, cymhwyster sy’n atyniadol iawn i rai o’r prifysgolion gorau.

Mae prosiect e-sgol yn rhan bwysig o'n cynllun addysg ar gyfer ysgolion gwledig. Nid yw'r prosiect wedi'i gynllunio i fod yn brosiect ar gyfer Cymru gyfan. Mae'n rhan o'r ateb i rai o anfanteision logistaidd darparu addysg mewn ardal wledig. Wrth gwrs, byddwn yn gwerthuso'r cynllun o ran gwerth am arian, ond yn bwysicach fyth, yr effaith a gaiff ar gyfleoedd i fyfyrwyr mewn ardaloedd gwledig, ac os yw'r cynllun yn dilyn llwyddiant cynllun yr Alban, a chredaf yn gryf y bydd, byddwn yn ceisio'i gyflwyno mewn awdurdodau lleol gwledig eraill, oherwydd ni waeth lle y caiff plentyn ei addysg yng Nghymru, boed mewn lleoliad trefol neu leoliad gwledig, maent yn haeddu’r cyfleoedd gorau posibl.

13:35

Un o'r rhwystredigaethau mawr rydw i'n ei glywed gan athrawon, rhieni, ac ysgolion yw diffyg faint o ddyfeisiau sydd mewn ystafelloedd dosbarth—faint o dabledi neu faint o liniaduron sydd ar gael i ddisgyblion i'w defnyddio. Ac, wrth gwrs, rwy'n gwybod o brofiad personol fod nifer o ysgolion yn dibynnu nawr ar ymdrechion gwirfoddol rhieni, cymdeithasau rhieni, er enghraifft, i godi arian i brynu tabledi a gliniaduron digonol. Nawr, mae hynny, wrth gwrs, yn ein dyddiau ni, yn cyfateb i orfod dibynnu ar arian yn cael ei godi'n wirfoddol i brynu papur a beiros flynyddoedd yn ôl. A ydy hynny'n dderbyniol?

One of the major frustrations that I hear expressed by teachers, parents and schools is the shortage of devices in classrooms—the number of tablets or laptops that are available for pupils to use. I know from personal experience that many schools are now reliant on the voluntary efforts of parents and PTAs in raising funds to buy tablets and laptops. Now, that, of course, would account to having to rely, in our day, on voluntary contributions for paper and biros. Is that acceptable?

Well, Llyr, you are right—it is the individual responsibility of individual schools to ensure that they have the resources within those schools, and should plan accordingly. However, I'm aware that not all schools find themselves in the same position, and we've just talked about equity between urban and rural education, and no school should not have the facilities it needs within the school because of an inability to purchase them through other means. As I said in answer to Mandy Jones, as we move from having solved, hopefully, across Wales by March of this year, the problems relating to capacity in the infrastructure outside of schools, we can now turn our attention to what is a fair and equitable way in which we can support local authorities and schools to develop infrastructure within the classroom. That does need to be done in a fair and equitable way, and recognising that, in some areas, the devices that children have at home are probably more powerful than what they have available to them in schools. So, there is not necessarily a one-size-fits-all solution to this. But we will be working with officials in the LIDW branch to seek to prioritise what capital resources that we have, to ensure that schools have the equipment—whether that be stand-alone computers, or hand-held devices—and that schools, crucially, have the advice to know what to buy, and to ensure that, having bought that, teachers are in a position to be able to utilise it most effectively for the learning of pupils. And, again, we are looking at how we can, at a national level, provide that consistency of support, and maybe a menu of products and support, so that schools can make really good and prudent decisions when they invest these resources.

Wel, Llyr, rydych yn iawn—cyfrifoldeb pob ysgol unigol yw sicrhau bod ganddynt yr adnoddau yn yr ysgolion hynny, a dylent gynllunio yn unol â hynny. Fodd bynnag, rwy'n ymwybodol nad yw pob ysgol yn yr un sefyllfa, ac rydym newydd fod yn sôn am gydraddoldeb rhwng addysg wledig a threfol, ac ni ddylai unrhyw ysgol fynd heb y cyfleusterau sydd eu hangen arni yn yr ysgol oherwydd anallu i’w prynu drwy ddulliau eraill. Fel y dywedais yn fy ateb i Mandy Jones, wrth inni symud ymlaen ar ôl datrys, gobeithio, ledled Cymru erbyn mis Mawrth eleni, y problemau sy'n ymwneud â chapasiti yn y seilwaith y tu allan i ysgolion, gallwn droi ein sylw bellach at ffordd deg a chyfartal o gynorthwyo awdurdodau lleol ac ysgolion i ddatblygu’r seilwaith yn yr ystafell ddosbarth. Mae angen gwneud hynny mewn ffordd deg a chyfartal, a chydnabod, mewn rhai ardaloedd, fod y dyfeisiau sydd gan blant gartref yn fwy pwerus yn ôl pob tebyg na'r hyn sydd ar gael iddynt mewn ysgolion. Felly, nid oes un ateb sy'n addas i bawb i hyn o reidrwydd. Ond byddwn yn gweithio gyda swyddogion yng nghangen Dysgu yn y Gymru Ddigidol i geisio blaenoriaethu'r adnoddau cyfalaf sydd gennym, er mwyn sicrhau bod gan ysgolion yr offer—boed yn gyfrifiaduron annibynnol, neu’n ddyfeisiau llaw—a bod ysgolion, yn allweddol, yn cael cyngor i wybod beth i'w brynu, ac i sicrhau, ar ôl ei brynu, fod athrawon mewn sefyllfa i allu ei ddefnyddio yn y ffordd fwyaf effeithiol ar gyfer dysgu disgyblion. Ac unwaith eto, rydym yn ystyried sut y gallwn, ar lefel genedlaethol, ddarparu’r cysondeb hwnnw o ran cefnogaeth, a dewislen o gynhyrchion a chymorth efallai, fel y gall ysgolion wneud penderfyniadau gwirioneddol dda a doeth pan fyddant yn buddsoddi'r adnoddau hyn.

Gwella Safonau Ysgolion
Improving School Standards

2. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n eu cymryd i wella safonau ysgolion? OAQ53132

2. What action is the Welsh Government taking to improve school standards? OAQ53132

Thank you, Darren. Our national mission is to raise standards of education for our young people across the nation. We are developing new evaluation and improvement arrangements, which will further support school improvement, and I will update Members on those arrangements in the coming weeks.

Diolch, Darren. Ein cenhadaeth genedlaethol yw codi safonau addysg i'n pobl ifanc ledled y wlad. Rydym yn datblygu trefniadau gwerthuso a gwella newydd, a fydd yn cefnogi gwelliant ysgolion ymhellach, a byddaf yn rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Aelodau ynglŷn â’r trefniadau hynny yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf.

Minister, you will no doubt have seen the report in the Western Mail on Monday, where there were comments from quite a number of headteachers and teaching unions expressing a great deal of concern about the pressure that they are under. It described people being exhausted, stressed, unable to switch off, and some headteachers turning to drink as a result of the pressure that your Government is putting on schools at the moment, not just in terms of the reform agenda that is currently under way, but also in terms of finances. And, of course, we know that there is a funding gap per pupil between England and Wales. That's culminating in headteachers taking prolonged periods of absence. The report suggested that, over a three-year period, around eight years and 10 months had been lost, at least, in headteacher absences across Wales, and 108 headteachers had been off for more than six weeks. This is a concerning backdrop at a time when your Government is seeking to improve school standards. So, what are you doing to reduce the pressure on headteachers, particularly given the shortage of applications that are coming in for new headship posts when they become vacant?

Weinidog, heb os, byddwch wedi gweld yr adroddiad yn y Western Mail ddydd Llun, a oedd yn cynnwys sylwadau gan nifer fawr o benaethiaid ac undebau addysgu yn mynegi cryn bryder ynghylch y pwysau sydd arnynt. Dywedai fod pobl wedi ymlâdd, o dan straen, yn methu ag ymlacio, a rhai penaethiaid yn troi at alcohol o ganlyniad i'r pwysau y mae eich Llywodraeth yn ei roi ar ysgolion ar hyn o bryd, nid yn unig o ran yr agenda ddiwygio sydd ar waith ar hyn o bryd, ond hefyd o ran cyllid. Ac wrth gwrs, gwyddom fod bwlch cyllido fesul disgybl yn bodoli rhwng Cymru a Lloegr. Mae hynny'n arwain at benaethiaid ar gyfnodau hir o absenoldeb. Awgrymai'r adroddiad, dros gyfnod o dair blynedd, fod oddeutu wyth mlynedd a 10 mis wedi’u colli, o leiaf, mewn absenoldebau penaethiaid ledled Cymru, ac roedd 108 o benaethiaid wedi bod yn absennol am fwy na chwe wythnos. Mae hyn yn achos pryder mewn cyfnod pan fo'ch Llywodraeth yn ceisio gwella safonau ysgolion. Felly, beth rydych yn ei wneud i leihau'r pwysau ar benaethiaid, yn enwedig o ystyried prinder y ceisiadau am swyddi penaethiaid newydd pan fyddant yn dod yn wag?

Thank you for that question, Darren. Securing, nurturing, and inspiring school leaders now and for the future is an important priority for the national mission. That's why, last year, we launched the National Academy for Educational Leadership Wales, so that we can better support those who are already in the job, or those who aspire to leadership in our education system, to get the support that they need. There are statutory measures in place to support all employees, including teaching staff, to maintain their health and well-being. And, as you will be aware, we are undertaking work with how we can ensure that schools are places where well-being can be nurtured, and that's as important for the staff as it is for the pupils within the school. We will be working—. As you will be aware, a number of reports have been commissioned and workstreams are under way with regard to workload. One positive example has been the introduction of the business manager pilots, which takes tasks and duties away from headteachers so that they have got more time to think about curriculum and teaching and learning. And we will continue to work with our local authorities, the regional consortia and the headteacher unions themselves to see what more we can do. Of course, we demand high standards of our school leaders; they are integral to the delivery of the national mission, but obviously we want to do that in a way, as I said, that is nurturing and supportive, not punitive, and, of course, our reforms to curriculum assessment measures have an important part to play in that. 

Diolch am eich cwestiwn, Darren. Mae diogelu, meithrin, ac ysbrydoli arweinwyr ysgolion yn awr ac ar gyfer y dyfodol yn flaenoriaeth bwysig i'r genhadaeth genedlaethol. Dyna pam y lansiwyd Academi Genedlaethol Arweinyddiaeth Addysgol Cymru gennym y llynedd, fel y gallwn roi mwy o gefnogaeth i’r rheini sydd eisoes yn y swydd, neu'r rheini sydd ag uchelgais i arwain yn ein system addysg, i gael y cymorth sydd ei hangen arnynt. Ceir mesurau statudol ar waith i gynorthwyo pob gweithiwr, gan gynnwys staff addysgu, i gynnal eu hiechyd a'u lles. Ac fel y gwyddoch, rydym yn ymgymryd â gwaith ar sut y gallwn sicrhau bod ysgolion yn lleoedd lle y gellir meithrin lles, ac mae hynny cyn bwysiced ar gyfer y staff ag y mae ar gyfer y disgyblion yn yr ysgol. Byddwn yn gweithio—. Fel y gwyddoch, mae nifer o adroddiadau wedi eu comisiynu ac mae ffrydiau gwaith ar y gweill mewn perthynas â llwyth gwaith. Un enghraifft gadarnhaol oedd cyflwyno'r cynlluniau peilot rheolwyr busnes, sy’n mynd â thasgau a dyletswyddau o ddwylo penaethiaid fel bod ganddynt fwy o amser i feddwl am y cwricwlwm ac addysgu a dysgu. A byddwn yn parhau i weithio gyda'n hawdurdodau lleol, y consortia rhanbarthol ac undebau penaethiaid eu hunain i weld beth yn fwy y gallwn ei wneud. Wrth gwrs, rydym yn mynnu safonau uchel gan arweinwyr ein hysgolion; maent yn rhan annatod o’r gwaith o gyflawni'r genhadaeth genedlaethol, ond yn amlwg, rydym am wneud hynny mewn ffordd, fel y dywedais, sy’n meithrin ac sy’n gefnogol yn hytrach na chosbol, ac wrth gwrs, mae gan ein diwygiadau i fesurau asesu’r cwricwlwm ran bwysig i’w chwarae yn hynny o beth.

13:40

Minister, would you agree with me that we should recognise and celebrate excellent standards of education in Wales, such as those provided by St Julian's Primary School in my constituency, which had an Estyn inspection in October of last year that assessed them as having excellence right across the board? It's a just-under 700 pupil primary school. It's a pioneer school in terms of digital competency and professional learning. I'd very much like to pay tribute to the staff, the school governors, the parents and the children, and I'm sure you'd like to do the same. 

Weinidog, a fyddech yn cytuno â mi y dylem gydnabod a dathlu safonau addysg rhagorol yng Nghymru, megis rhai Ysgol Gynradd Sant Julian yn fy etholaeth, a gafodd arolygiad gan Estyn ym mis Hydref y llynedd a asesodd eu bod yn rhagorol ym mhob categori? Mae'n ysgol gynradd ag ychydig o dan 700 o ddisgyblion. Mae'n ysgol arloesi o ran cymhwysedd digidol a dysgu proffesiynol. Hoffwn dalu teyrnged i'r staff, llywodraethwyr yr ysgol, y rhieni a'r plant, ac rwy'n siŵr yr hoffech chi wneud yr un peth.

John, you're absolutely right—we need to challenge underperformance where we find it in the Welsh education system, but we also need to recognise and celebrate success where we find it in the Welsh education system. Too often, we are ready to talk our teaching processionals and their efforts down. St Julian's Primary School—a school that I've had the privilege to visit to see the work that they are doing in terms of digital competency—is a fantastic school that does a wonderful, wonderful job for the children who attend. I would like to join you in paying tribute to the work of the headteacher and the team at St Julian's. Of course, I look forward to joining them, because, if they've been given 'excellent' by Estyn, they will be at the Estyn annual awards dinner and I will have a chance to congratulate them personally, which I will look forward to doing. 

John, rydych yn llygad eich lle—mae angen inni herio tangyflawniad pan y'i gwelwn yn y system addysg yng Nghymru, ond mae angen inni hefyd gydnabod a dathlu llwyddiant pan y'i gwelwn yn y system addysg yng Nghymru. Yn rhy aml, rydym yn barod i ladd ar ein gweithwyr addysgu proffesiynol a'u hymdrechion. Mae Ysgol Gynradd Sant Julian—ysgol rwyf wedi cael y fraint o ymweld â hi er mwyn gweld y gwaith a wnânt o ran cymhwysedd digidol—yn ysgol wych sy'n gwneud gwaith ardderchog ar gyfer y plant hynny sy'n ei mynychu. Hoffwn ymuno â chi i dalu teyrnged i waith y pennaeth a'r tîm yn ysgol Sant Julian. Wrth gwrs, edrychaf ymlaen at ymuno â hwy, oherwydd, os ydynt wedi cael dyfarniad 'rhagorol' gan Estyn, byddant yng nghinio gwobrau blynyddol Estyn, a chaf gyfle i'w llongyfarch wyneb yn wyneb, ac edrychaf ymlaen at wneud hynny.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cyfle nawr i lefarwyr y pleidiau ofyn cwestiynau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Suzy Davies. 

A chance now for party spokespeople to ask questions. The Conservative spokesperson. Suzy Davies. 

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. I'm sure you're expecting me to return to the Western Mail report today, Minister, which I do. Darren Millar mentioned that school leaders are feeling exhausted and under threat and particularly

'unable to cope with impossible demands set from on high by a range of bureaucratic people'. 

After citing funding, which you probably would expect, and retention and recruitment problems, those headteachers added that the—and I'm quoting from them—

'the best education systems do not recruit talent and then constrain them with top-down policy or an overly centralised...school leadership.'

And, of course, as leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats in the past, you will have agreed with the manifesto in 2016, which stated that,

'Teachers deliver the best results when they are given flexibility and support, not smothered by bureacracy. We will provide more freedom for teachers and greater flexibility to our schools.'

The National Academy for Educational Leadership—can you explain who is shaping and driving that to avoid any concerns that this too is about impossible demands set from on high by a range of bureaucratic people? 

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Rwy'n siŵr eich bod yn disgwyl imi ddychwelyd at yr adroddiad yn y Western Mail heddiw, Weinidog, ac rwyf am wneud hynny. Soniodd Darren Millar fod arweinwyr ysgolion yn teimlo wedi ymlâdd ac o dan fygythiad ac yn fwyaf arbennig

yn methu ymdopi â gofynion amhosibl a bennir oddi fry gan amrywiaeth o bobl fiwrocrataidd.

Ar ôl nodi cyllid, a byddech yn disgwyl hynny, mae'n debyg, a phroblemau recriwtio a chadw staff, ychwanegodd y penaethiaid hyn—ac rwy'n eu dyfynnu—

nad yw'r systemau addysg gorau yn recriwtio talent ac yn cyfyngu arnynt wedyn gyda pholisi o'r brig i'r bôn neu gydag arweinyddiaeth ysgolion... wedi'i gor-ganoli.

Ac wrth gwrs, fel arweinydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn y gorffennol, byddwch wedi cytuno gyda'r maniffesto yn 2016, a ddywedai,

'Mae athrawon yn cyflawni'r canlyniadau gorau pan gânt hyblygrwydd a chefnogaeth, nid eu llethu gan fiwrocratiaeth. Byddwn yn darparu mwy o ryddid i athrawon a mwy o hyblygrwydd i'n hysgolion.'

Yr Academi Genedlaethol Arweinyddiaeth Addysgol—a allwch egluro pwy sy'n ei llunio ac yn ei llywio er mwyn osgoi unrhyw bryderon fod hyn hefyd yn ymwneud â gofynion amhosibl a bennir oddi fry gan amrywiaeth o bobl fiwrocrataidd?

My views have not changed since that manifesto was written. That's why we are reforming the curriculum, to move away from the tick-box expectations that we currently require our schools to undertake. That's why we are investing in support for self-evaluation for schools, so they themselves become the best judge of their own performance, because I believe that they are best placed then to understand where they are and how they can improve. That's why we're investing in class sizes, so that those teachers have the time that they need to spend with individual children, and that's why, indeed, we're investing in a National Academy for Educational Leadership to support our headteachers with the training and continuing professional learning so that they can be the very best they can be. I see no difference in that approach from what I would have taken if I was still sitting on that side of the Chamber. What we know is that, if we can build capacity within our own education system, that's the best way to deliver the national mission. 

Nid yw fy marn wedi newid ers i'r maniffesto gael ei ysgrifennu. Dyna pam rydym yn diwygio'r cwricwlwm, i ymbellhau oddi wrth y disgwyliadau ticio blychau rydym yn gofyn i'n hysgolion eu cyflawni ar hyn o bryd. Dyna pam rydym yn buddsoddi mewn cymorth hunanarfarnu ar gyfer ysgolion, fel mai hwy eu hunain a fydd orau am farnu eu perfformiad eu hunain, gan y credaf eu bod yn y sefyllfa orau wedyn i ddeall lle maent arni a sut y gallant wella. Dyna pam rydym yn buddsoddi mewn meintiau dosbarthiadau, er mwyn sicrhau bod gan yr athrawon hynny yr amser sydd ei angen arnynt i'w dreulio gyda phlant unigol, a dyna'n wir pam ein bod yn buddsoddi mewn Academi Genedlaethol Arweinyddiaeth Addysgol i gefnogi ein penaethiaid gyda'r hyfforddiant a'r dysgu proffesiynol parhaus fel y gallant fod y gorau y gallant fod. Ni welaf unrhyw wahaniaeth rhwng yr ymagwedd honno a'r ymagwedd a fyddai gennyf pe bawn yn dal i eistedd ar yr ochr honno i'r Siambr. Yr hyn a wyddom yw, os gallwn adeiladu capasiti o fewn ein system addysg ein hunain, dyna'r ffordd orau o gyflawni'r genhadaeth genedlaethol.

Well, we wouldn't disagree with you on that, of course, because a similar academy was in our Welsh Conservatives manifesto, and we would like to see a very successful version of that providing the results that I hope we would all see. My question was: who is actually driving that? Is it going to be civil servants who design it or is it going to be teachers? You heard from me about the concerns on self-evaluation yesterday, and I look forward to hearing a bit more from you as time goes on about how that will look.

But let's look at that curriculum reform that you were talking about. Earlier this week, those same headteachers criticised the pace of change in schools as secondary schools are—again, I'm quoting—

'dealing with reformed GCSEs and A levels at the same time as trying to prepare for the new curriculum',

something that was supported in principle by the Welsh Local Government Association, who told the Children, Young People and Education Committee in their written evidence that

'not enough of what actually matters has been included in the AoLEs…too many statements are generic, poorly defined and weak on knowledge and skills development',

and this being likely to result in pupils' development being left to chance, and a total of 30 areas of learning and experience will be 

'particularly challenging for primary teachers where the load is not shared across departments/faculties.'

And, finally, most damning of all, while the

'landscape is awash with experts getting “excited” about curriculum reform…the reality is that workload-weary teachers will have to try to make it work on the ground.'

Now, you're ring-fencing an awful lot of money to train teachers for this new curriculum—for this—when we're not really clear what 'this' means, and at the same time, that means there is money not going into school budgets, which is not enabling teacher freedom and which is not enabling greater flexibilities for schools. How are you responding to the fears raised by both the headteachers and the WLGA that the curriculum, which is meant to be ready for next year, isn't going to be on time in any clear and meaningful way and what are you going to do about it?

Wel, ni fyddem yn anghytuno â chi ynglŷn â hynny, wrth gwrs, gan fod maniffesto'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn cynnwys academi debyg, a hoffem weld fersiwn lwyddiannus iawn o hynny yn darparu'r canlyniadau y gobeithiaf y byddai pob un ohonom yn eu gweld. Fy nghwestiwn oedd: pwy sy'n llywio hynny mewn gwirionedd? Ai gweision sifil a fydd yn ei llunio, neu athrawon? Clywsoch gennyf ynghylch y pryderon ynglŷn â hunanarfarnu ddoe, ac edrychaf ymlaen at glywed mwy gennych maes o law ynglŷn â sut y bydd hynny'n edrych.

Ond gadewch inni edrych ar y gwaith a grybwyllwyd gennych o ddiwygio'r cwricwlwm. Yn gynharach yr wythnos hon, beirniadwyd cyflymder y newid mewn ysgolion gan yr un penaethiaid, gan fod ysgolion uwchradd—unwaith eto, rwy'n dyfynnu—

yn ymdrin â TGAU a Safon Uwch diwygiedig ar yr un pryd ag y maent yn ceisio paratoi ar gyfer y cwricwlwm newydd,

rhywbeth a gefnogwyd mewn egwyddor gan Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, a ddywedodd wrth y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg yn eu tystiolaeth ysgrifenedig

nad oes digon o'r hyn sy'n wirioneddol bwysig wedi'i gynnwys yn y Meysydd Dysgu a Phrofiad... mae gormod o'r datganiadau yn rhai generig, wedi'u diffinio'n wael ac yn wan o ran gwybodaeth a datblygu sgiliau,

a bod hyn yn debygol o arwain at ddatblygiad disgyblion yn cael ei adael i ffawd, ac y bydd cyfanswm o 30 maes dysgu a phrofiad yn

arbennig o heriol i athrawon cynradd lle nad yw'r llwyth yn cael ei rannu ar draws adrannau/cyfadrannau.

Ac yn olaf, yn fwyaf damniol oll, tra bo'r

tirlun yn gorlifo ag arbenigwyr yn "cynhyrfu" ynglŷn â diwygio'r cwricwlwm... y realiti yw y bydd yn rhaid i athrawon o dan bwysau llwyth gwaith geisio gwneud iddo weithio ar lawr gwlad.

Nawr, rydych yn clustnodi llawer iawn o arian i hyfforddi athrawon ar gyfer y cwricwlwm newydd hwn—ar gyfer hyn—pan nad ydym yn deall yn iawn beth yw ystyr 'hyn', ac ar yr un pryd, golyga hynny fod arian i'w gael nad yw'n mynd i gyllidebau ysgolion, ac nid yw hynny'n rhoi rhyddid i athrawon nac yn rhoi mwy o hyblygrwydd i ysgolion. Sut rydych yn ymateb i'r pryderon a fynegwyd gan y penaethiaid a CLlLC na fydd y cwricwlwm, sydd i fod yn barod ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf, ar amser mewn unrhyw ffordd glir ac ystyrlon, a beth a wnewch ynglŷn â hynny?

13:45

Can I assure the Member, with regard to who is driving forward the National Academy for Educational Leadership, the academy is led by an ex-headteacher. He is supported by a range of associates to the academy, all of whom are current practitioners, who are leading schools in our nation and they are, for the leadership of our education system, designing and accrediting new professional learning opportunities for them. The very same can be said about the curriculum.

The WLGA says that it is teachers who will be responsible for delivering it on a day-to-day basis—of course they are, and that's why it is teachers themselves and our pioneer schools that have designed the curriculum. This isn't a bureaucrat in the Welsh Government who is telling teachers what they will teach in the future—it is our teachers, who are currently out there in our system now, who are designing our curriculum in a way that they belive will best suit their colleagues on the ground.

I must admit to being a little concerned in some of the evidence that the WLGA has provided to the CYPE committee. I'm sure we will want to discuss that in more detail tomorrow. In some ways, it shows a general lack of understanding of the reforms and how they will work in practice, but clearly there is an emphasis on us then to make sure that they are clearly in the picture on how this will work. And it's also to say that much of the feedback that they have reported on seems to relate to where we were in the curriculum reform journey back in July.

However, there are issues that will need to be addressed in the evidence that they have put forward and, indeed, that's why I made the decision 12 months ago to delay the roll-out of the curriculum to ensure that we did have enough time for all of our schools, both primary and secondary, to prepare for this and to ensure that our teachers had the professional learning opportunities that they will need to turn the new curriculum into an exciting reality for Welsh schoolchildren.

A gaf fi roi sicrwydd i'r Aelod, o ran pwy sy'n llywio'r Academi Genedlaethol Arweinyddiaeth Addysgol, fod yr academi'n cael ei harwain gan gyn-bennaeth. Fe'i cefnogir gan amrywiaeth o bartneriaid cyswllt i'r academi, pob un ohonynt yn addysgwr cyfredol sy'n arwain ysgolion yn ein gwlad, ac ar gyfer arweinyddiaeth ein system addysg, maent yn llunio ac yn achredu cyfleoedd dysgu proffesiynol newydd ar eu cyfer. Gellir dweud yr un peth yn union am y cwricwlwm.

Dywed CLlLC mai athrawon a fydd yn gyfrifol am ei ddarparu o ddydd i ddydd—wrth gwrs hynny, a dyna pam mai athrawon eu hunain a'n hysgolion arloesi sydd wedi cynllunio'r cwricwlwm. Nid biwrocrat yn Llywodraeth Cymru yn dweud wrth athrawon beth fyddant yn ei addysgu yn y dyfodol yw hyn—ein hathrawon, sydd allan yno yn awr yn ein system, sy'n cynllunio ein cwricwlwm yn y ffordd y credant sy'n gweddu orau i'w cydweithwyr ar lawr gwlad.

Mae'n rhaid imi gyfaddef fy mod ychydig yn bryderus ynglŷn â rhywfaint o'r dystiolaeth a ddarparwyd gan CLlLC i'r Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg. Rwy'n siŵr y byddwn yn awyddus i drafod hynny'n fwy manwl yfory. Mewn rhai ffyrdd, mae'n dangos diffyg dealltwriaeth gyffredinol o'r diwygiadau a sut y byddant yn gweithio yn ymarferol, ond yn amlwg, ceir pwysau arnom ni wedyn i sicrhau eu bod yn deall yn iawn sut y bydd hyn yn gweithio. Ac mae hefyd yn dweud bod llawer o'r adborth y maent wedi adrodd arno i'w weld yn ymwneud â lle'r oeddem ar y daith i ddiwygio'r cwricwlwm yn ôl ym mis Gorffennaf.

Fodd bynnag, ceir materion y bydd angen mynd i'r afael â hwy yn y dystiolaeth a gyflwynwyd ganddynt, ac yn wir, dyna pam y gwneuthum y penderfyniad 12 mis yn ôl i oedi cyn cyflwyno'r cwricwlwm er mwyn sicrhau bod gennym ddigon o amser i bob un o'n hysgolion, cynradd ac uwchradd, baratoi ar gyfer hyn ac i sicrhau bod ein hathrawon yn cael y cyfleoedd dysgu proffesiynol y bydd eu hangen arnynt i droi'r cwricwlwm newydd yn realiti cyffrous ar gyfer plant ysgol Cymru.

Well, I'm thinking that this should be an area of concern for you, then, because if the WLGA doesn't seem to understand what a teacher-designed system is going to look like, how on earth are they going to be able to help distribute the money that you're giving them now, through this ring-fenced system, to help encourage teachers to learn how to deliver a system that they themselves have designed but that the WLGA doesn't understand.

Can we just move on now to the education improvement grant that you've decided to cut by 10 per cent this year? One of the key aims, of course, of the education improvement grant was to address learners' barriers to learning and to improve inclusion, which I'm sure we would all appreciate. In areas with high levels of Welsh language education, such as Gwynedd, it is entirely reasonable to foresee that one of the those barriers to education could be a lack of Welsh language skills for people moving into the area. When you took the decision to cut the education improvement grant, I wonder if you could explain to me what assessment was carried out to see what effect that decision would have on providers who were helping people moving to the area to improve their Welsh language skills in order to access their education. And also, on the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and the rights of those children to an education, in making the cuts and in moving this service, I suspect that there's going to be a problem in evidencing the fact that children's right to an education is being properly observed. Thank you.

Wel, credaf y dylai hyn fod yn achos pryder i chi, felly, oherwydd os nad ymddengys bod CLlLC yn deall sut y bydd system a gynlluniwyd gan athrawon yn edrych, sut ar y ddaear y gallant helpu i ddosbarthu'r arian rydych yn ei roi iddynt yn awr, drwy'r system a glustnodwyd, i helpu i annog athrawon i ddysgu sut i ddarparu system a luniwyd ganddynt hwy eu hunain ond nad yw CLlLC yn ei deall.

A gawn ni symud ymlaen at y grant gwella addysg rydych wedi penderfynu ei leihau 10 y cant eleni? Un o brif nodau'r grant gwella addysg, wrth gwrs, oedd mynd i'r afael â rhwystrau dysgu i ddysgwyr a gwella cynhwysiant, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddai pob un ohonom yn gwerthfawrogi hynny. Mewn ardaloedd â lefelau uchel o addysg Gymraeg, fel Gwynedd, mae'n gwbl resymol rhagweld y gallai diffyg sgiliau Cymraeg fod yn un o'r rhwystrau hynny i addysg ar gyfer pobl sy'n symud i'r ardal. Pan wnaethoch y penderfyniad i dorri'r grant gwella addysg, tybed a allwch egluro i mi pa asesiad a gynhaliwyd i weld pa effaith y byddai'r penderfyniad hwnnw'n ei chael ar ddarparwyr a oedd yn helpu pobl sy'n symud i'r ardal i wella eu sgiliau yn y Gymraeg er mwyn cael mynediad at eu haddysg. A hefyd, o ran Confensiwn y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar Hawliau'r Plentyn a hawliau'r plant hynny i addysg, wrth wneud y toriadau hyn ac wrth symud y gwasanaeth hwn, rwy'n tybio y bydd yn creu problem o ran gallu dangos tystiolaeth fod hawl plant i addysg yn cael ei pharchu'n briodol. Diolch.

Presiding Officer, If I could correct the Member correct the Member, it is not the WLGA or local authorities that will decide how the professional learning moneys are spent. The moneys will be made available via a grant via individual local authorities. It is schools for themselves and headteachers themselves that will decide how their allocation for professional learning will be spent. It's not the WLGA or individual local authorities, although the money goes via that particular route. It is those headteachers and those individual schools who are best placed to understand the professional learning needs of their staff so that they can realise the curriculum.

Tough choices, Presiding Officer, have to be made around budgets; these have been well rehearsed in the education committee. There is a balance to be struck between what money is made available to local authorities, which is of course where schools receive most of their funding from, and what grants are held centrally from Government. As I said, difficult decisions have to be made, but I am confident in the ability of both the authority in Gwynedd and the regional consortia and those that are committed to giving children the opportunity to learn Welsh language skills should they arrive in that county and that they will be able to do so successfully, and these issues have not been raised with me by Gwynedd.

Lywydd, os caf gywiro'r Aelod, nid CLlLC neu'r awdurdodau lleol a fydd yn penderfynu sut y bydd yr arian dysgu proffesiynol yn cael ei wario. Bydd yr arian ar gael drwy grant drwy awdurdodau lleol unigol. Yr ysgolion eu hunain a'r penaethiaid eu hunain a fydd yn penderfynu sut y gwerir eu dyraniad ar gyfer dysgu proffesiynol. Nid CLlLC neu awdurdodau lleol unigol fydd yn gwneud hynny, er y bydd yr arian yn cael ei ddarparu drwy'r llwybr penodol hwnnw. Y penaethiaid hynny a'r ysgolion unigol hynny sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i ddeall anghenion dysgu proffesiynol eu staff fel y gallant wireddu'r cwricwlwm.

Mae'n rhaid gwneud dewisiadau anodd ynglŷn â chyllidebau, Lywydd; mae'r rhain wedi eu hailadrodd sawl tro yn y pwyllgor addysg. Mae angen sicrhau cydbwysedd rhwng faint o arian a ryddheir i awdurdodau lleol, sef lle y caiff ysgolion y rhan fwyaf o'u cyllid, wrth gwrs, a pha grantiau a ddelir yn ganolog gan y Llywodraeth. Fel y dywedais, mae'n rhaid gwneud penderfyniadau anodd, ond mae gennyf hyder yng ngallu'r awdurdod yng Ngwynedd a'r consortia rhanbarthol a'r rheini sydd wedi ymrwymo i roi cyfle i blant ddysgu sgiliau iaith Gymraeg os byddant yn dod i'r sir honno, ac y byddant yn gallu gwneud hynny'n llwyddiannus, ac nid yw Gwynedd wedi codi'r materion hyn gyda mi.

13:50

Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Bethan Sayed.

Plaid Cymru Spokesperson, Bethan Sayed.

Whilst Plaid Cymru has been supportive of some of the changes that you've made in relation to schools, when it comes to post-16 education, some of the people that I've talked to have said that they believe that the Government have taken their eye off the ball. Even the former Minister—I'm not sure of the title at the time—said that further education was not given a priority. Do you agree with that statement? Do you think that the Welsh Government have taken their eye off the ball?

Er bod Plaid Cymru wedi bod yn gefnogol i rai o'r newidiadau rydych wedi'u gwneud mewn perthynas ag ysgolion, o ran addysg ôl-16, mae rhai o'r bobl rwyf wedi siarad â hwy wedi dweud eu bod yn credu bod y Llywodraeth wedi bod yn esgeulus. Mae hyd yn oed y cyn-Weinidog—nid wyf yn siŵr o'r teitl ar y pryd—wedi dweud na roddwyd blaenoriaeth i addysg bellach. A ydych yn cytuno gyda'r datganiad hwnnw? A ydych yn credu bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn esgeulus?

Well, I am delighted to have now assumed responsibility for FE in the recent change to Cabinet responsibilities and I look forward to working really closely with ColegauCymru to ensure that FE, which is one of the stars of Welsh education in the provision that it provides, both in terms of traditional A-level courses or vocational courses or adult returner courses—it's a real strength within our system and I look forward very much to working alongside them. I'm very glad that, prior to Christmas, we were able to assist them with additional resources around issues with regard to pay for people who work so successfully in that sector. 

Wel, rwy'n falch iawn fy mod bellach yn gyfrifol am addysg bellach wedi'r newid diweddar i gyfrifoldebau'r Cabinet ac edrychaf ymlaen at weithio'n agos iawn gyda ColegauCymru i sicrhau bod addysg bellach, un o drysorau addysg Cymru o ran y ddarpariaeth y mae'n ei chynnig, o ran cyrsiau Safon Uwch traddodiadol neu gyrsiau galwedigaethol neu gyrsiau i oedolion sy'n dychwelyd i addysg—mae'n gryfder gwirioneddol yn ein system ac edrychaf ymlaen yn fawr iawn at weithio ochr yn ochr â hwy. Rwy'n falch iawn ein bod, cyn y Nadolig, wedi gallu eu cynorthwyo gydag adnoddau ychwanegol mewn perthynas â materion yn ymwneud â chyflogau i bobl sy'n gweithio mor llwyddiannus yn y sector hwnnw.

Thank you for the reply. I appreciate elements of this is new, but, obviously, higher education isn't new. We've seen major pressures in the college sector, strikes averted at the eleventh hour, but that doesn't take away from the fact that workload pressure is still a reality. We need to see progress on Hazelkorn and on FE legislation. Where is that in the round? There are major governance issues in higher education. We've seen the vice-chancellor of Bangor having left the post recently, and serious financial difficulties there and in Cardiff with £21 million of cutbacks. If the eye hasn't been taken off the ball, what are you doing to try and alleviate some of these issues that I've just outlined here today?

Diolch am eich ateb. Rwy'n derbyn bod elfennau o hyn yn newydd, ond yn amlwg, nid yw addysg uwch yn newydd. Rydym wedi gweld pwysau sylweddol yn y sector colegau, gyda streiciau'n cael eu hosgoi ar y funud olaf, ond nid yw hynny'n tynnu dim oddi wrth y ffaith bod pwysau llwyth gwaith yn dal i fodoli. Mae angen inni weld cynnydd ar Hazelkorn ac ar ddeddfwriaeth addysg bellach. Lle mae hynny yn y darlun mawr? Ceir problemau llywodraethu sylweddol ym maes addysg uwch. Rydym wedi gweld is-ganghellor Bangor yn gadael ei swydd yn ddiweddar, a'r anawsterau ariannol difrifol yno ac yng Nghaerdydd gyda £21 miliwn o doriadau. Os nad ydych wedi bod yn esgeulus, beth rydych yn ei wneud i geisio lliniaru rhai o'r materion hyn rwyf newydd eu hamlinellu yma heddiw?

Well, of course, higher education institutions are autonomous bodies and they are responsible for how they run themselves and their financial viability. What we're doing about it is implementing the findings of the Diamond review, which will see us move to a much more sustainable way of funding HE in the future. 

Wel, wrth gwrs, mae sefydliadau addysg uwch yn gyrff annibynnol ac maent yn gyfrifol am y modd y maent yn rhedeg eu hunain a'u hyfywedd ariannol. Yr hyn rydym yn ei wneud am y peth yw rhoi canfyddiadau adolygiad Diamond ar waith, a fydd yn ein harwain at ddull llawer mwy cynaliadwy o ariannu addysg uwch yn y dyfodol.

Thank you for that answer, of course, but I think many of the universities would say back to that that they need imminent support because they are making those cutbacks in the here and now, and any intervention that you can make as Minister would be welcome.

I'd like to turn finally to Swansea University and governance issues in higher education. Yesterday, my colleague Helen Mary Jones asked a business question in relation to this and was told that the Welsh Government couldn't comment on an ongoing investigation. Now, a Swansea University spokesperson told the BBC yesterday that a thorough investigation had taken place before the suspensions, but then in the same statement said that there is an ongoing investigation. So, which is it? Can you clarify here today? The vice-chancellor himself has said that no material evidence was provided to him prior to the suspension and that there has been a serious breach of due process. This is a respected vice-chancellor of 15 years who has been suspended. He was barred from his home, under which university rules say is his home—he's required to live in it. I've been told that the process of investigating has actually stalled and not much is happening at all, and I've also been told that there's anger and concern regarding the way in which all this has been conducted. We are talking about a major institution here in Swansea, bringing economic returns for the area that know no bounds in relation to the work that has been happening in the school of management, for example, in the last few years. We've also seen that the university court has been postponed. Why is the governance element of the university being postponed at short notice, without telling Assembly Members why this is?

I, personally, don't believe that it's good enough for you to say that you have no comment to make. What are you going to do to hold these institutions to account to ensure that the governance process is adhered to appropriately and that we can be assured that Higher Education Funding Council for Wales money is being spent in the right and proper way, so that we all here can hold this Government and the university sector to account? Do we need reform in the governance of universities here in Wales? 

Diolch am eich ateb, wrth gwrs, ond credaf y byddai llawer o'r prifysgolion yn ateb hynny drwy ddweud bod angen cymorth brys arnynt gan eu bod yn gwneud y toriadau hynny ar hyn o bryd, ac y byddai unrhyw ymyriad y gallwch ei wneud fel Gweinidog yn cael croeso.

Hoffwn droi, yn olaf, at Brifysgol Abertawe a phroblemau llywodraethu ym maes addysg uwch. Ddoe, gofynnodd fy nghyd-Aelod Helen Mary Jones gwestiwn busnes mewn perthynas â hyn a dywedwyd wrthi na allai Llywodraeth Cymru wneud sylwadau ar ymchwiliad sydd ar y gweill. Nawr, dywedodd llefarydd ar ran Prifysgol Abertawe wrth y BBC ddoe fod ymchwiliad trylwyr wedi'i gynnal cyn yr ataliadau dros dro, ond yn yr un datganiad, dywedodd fod ymchwiliad ar y gweill. Felly, pa un sy'n wir? A allwch egluro hynny yma heddiw? Mae'r is-ganghellor ei hun wedi dweud na ddarparwyd unrhyw dystiolaeth berthnasol iddo cyn iddo gael ei atal a bod yma dramgwydd difrifol yn erbyn y drefn briodol. Dyma is-ganghellor uchel ei barch ers 15 mlynedd sydd wedi'i atal o'i swydd. Fe'i gwaharddwyd o'i gartref, sef y man y dywed rheolau'r brifysgol yw ei gartref—mae gofyn iddo fyw ynddo. Rwyf wedi clywed bod y broses o ymchwilio wedi dod i stop ac nad oes llawer yn digwydd o gwbl, ac rwyf hefyd wedi clywed bod dicter a phryder ynghylch y ffordd y cyflawnwyd hyn oll. Rydym yn sôn am sefydliad pwysig yma yn Abertawe, sy'n dod â manteision economaidd di-ben-draw i'r ardal o ran y gwaith sydd wedi bod yn mynd rhagddo yn yr ysgol reolaeth, er enghraifft, dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf. Rydym hefyd wedi gweld bod llys y brifysgol wedi'i ohirio. Pam fod elfen lywodraethu'r brifysgol yn cael ei gohirio ar fyr rybudd, heb ddweud pam wrth Aelodau'r Cynulliad?

Yn bersonol, ni chredaf ei bod yn ddigon da ichi ddweud nad oes gennych unrhyw sylwadau i'w gwneud. Beth y bwriadwch ei wneud i ddwyn y sefydliadau hyn i gyfrif er mwyn sicrhau y cedwir at y broses lywodraethu yn briodol ac y gellir rhoi sicrwydd inni fod cyllid Cyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru yn cael ei wario yn y ffordd iawn a phriodol, fel y gall pob un ohonom yma ddwyn y Llywodraeth hon a'r sector prifysgolion i gyfrif? A oes angen diwygio llywodraethiant prifysgolion yma yng Nghymru?

13:55

Only this morning, at the economic development committee, we spent a great deal of time—I spent a great deal of time—being told of the importance of universities remaining autonomous institutions, without interference from the Government. There is an ongoing internal investigation being carried out by Swansea University, and it would be completely—completely—inappropriate for me to comment on the substance of that whilst that investigation is ongoing. 

HEFCW are in touch with Swansea University and carrying out an overview to satisfy themselves that things are being done properly, but it would be completely inappropriate for me, in this setting, to comment on an ongoing internal disciplinary investigation of an autonomous institution.

Y bore yma, yn y pwyllgor datblygu economaidd, treuliasom gryn dipyn o amser—fe dreuliais gryn dipyn o amser—yn gwrando ar ba mor bwysig yw hi fod prifysgolion yn parhau'n sefydliadau annibynnol, heb ymyrraeth gan y Llywodraeth. Mae Prifysgol Abertawe yn cynnal ymchwiliad mewnol ar hyn o bryd, a byddai'n gwbl—yn gwbl—amhriodol imi wneud sylwadau ar hynny tra bo'r ymchwiliad yn mynd rhagddo.

Mae CCAUC mewn cysylltiad â Phrifysgol Abertawe ac yn cynnal trosolwg i fodloni eu hunain fod pethau'n cael eu gwneud yn gywir, ond byddai'n gwbl amhriodol i mi, yn y lle hwn, roi sylwadau ar ymchwiliad disgyblu mewnol sydd ar y gweill mewn sefydliad annibynnol.

Llefarydd UKIP, Michelle Brown.

UKIP spokesperson, Michelle Brown.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. The children's commissioner and anti-bullying charities have called for statutory recording of all bullying incidents. The Welsh Government said in 2017 that it was reviewing the policy. Have you finished the review yet? If not, why has it been taking so long? 

Diolch, Lywydd. Mae'r comisiynydd plant ac elusennau gwrthfwlio wedi galw am gofnodi pob achos o fwlio yn statudol. Yn 2017, dywedodd Llywodraeth Cymru ei bod yn adolygu'r polisi. A ydych wedi gorffen yr adolygiad eto? Os nad ydych, pam ei bod wedi cymryd cymaint o amser?

We are currently carrying out and in the middle of—I'm surprised the Member isn't aware—we are currently in the middle of a public consultation on future anti-bullying strategies in Welsh education. That consultation is ongoing at this moment.

Ar hyn o bryd, rydym wrthi'n cynnal—rwy'n synnu nad yw'r Aelod yn gwybod—rydym wrthi'n cynnal ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus ar strategaethau gwrthfwlio ar gyfer y dyfodol yn y maes addysg yng Nghymru. Mae'r ymgynghoriad hwnnw'n mynd rhagddo ar hyn o bryd.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. The question, really, is: you're saying that there's a consultation ongoing at the moment—fair enough, there's a consultation. However, bullying in schools isn't a new issue. This has been a devolved matter for a long time now. Why is it only now that you're coming up, or only relatively recently coming up, with a consultation? Are you going to propose that there is statutory recording of bullying? Are you going to treat bullying in the same way as other incidents? 

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Y cwestiwn, mewn gwirionedd, yw: dywedwch fod ymgynghoriad parhaus yn mynd rhagddo ar hyn o bryd—mae hynny'n ddigon teg, mae ymgynghoriad ar waith. Fodd bynnag, nid yw bwlio mewn ysgolion yn fater newydd. Mae hwn wedi bod yn fater datganoledig ers tro byd bellach. Pam mai yn awr, neu'n gymharol ddiweddar, y rhoddwyd ymgynghoriad ar waith gennych? A ydych yn mynd i argymell y dylid cofnodi bwlio'n statudol? A fyddwch yn trin bwlio yr un ffordd â digwyddiadau eraill?

Clearly, there is a current Welsh Government anti-bullying strategy and anti-bullying guidance that is issued to schools—that exists at the moment. I believe that that is unwieldy. I believe that it is not helpful to schools, and we have not made it easy for schools to deal effectively with this very important issue. That's why we're carrying out the consultation now, at this very moment, to improve the support that is available to schools. Young people, schools and anybody with an interest—I would urge them to respond to that consultation.

This work also sits alongside the work that we are doing to ensure that schools become institutions where the well-being of all pupils and staff is at the forefront of that work. So, this is just one of a number of streams where we want to ensure that Welsh schools are happy places to work and learn in, because what we do know is that unless we address children's well-being, we cannot expect them to excel academically.

Yn amlwg, mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru strategaeth wrthfwlio gyfredol a chanllawiau gwrthfwlio a roddir i ysgolion—mae hynny'n digwydd eisoes. Credaf fod hynny'n anhylaw. Credaf nad yw'n ddefnyddiol i ysgolion, ac nad ydym wedi gwneud pethau'n hawdd i ysgolion ymdrin yn effeithiol â'r mater tra phwysig hwn. Dyna pam ein bod yn cynnal yr ymgynghoriad yn awr, ar yr union adeg hon, i wella'r cymorth sydd ar gael i ysgolion. Pobl ifanc, ysgolion ac unrhyw un sydd â diddordeb—buaswn yn eu hannog i ymateb i'r ymgynghoriad hwnnw.

Mae'r gwaith hwn hefyd yn sefyll ochr yn ochr â'r gwaith a wnawn i sicrhau bod ysgolion yn dod yn sefydliadau lle y mae lles yr holl ddisgyblion a'r staff yn ganolog i'r gwaith hwnnw. Felly, mae hon yn un o nifer o ffrydiau lle rydym am sicrhau bod ysgolion Cymru yn lleoedd hapus i weithio ac i ddysgu ynddynt, oherwydd oni bai ein bod yn rhoi sylw i les plant, gwyddom na allwn ddisgwyl iddynt ragori'n academaidd.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. Well, you've thought about statutory recording of incidents of racism in schools and you've thought about paper tests for reading and other assessments. At the same time, one in 10 learners in Welsh secondary state schools suffer bullying every week. That means that there are more children being bullied than there are children not hitting literacy or numeracy targets. I've not read any news stories about a child killing themselves because they were slightly behind in their reading, but we do keep getting reports of suicides following bullying. Isn't it time that you actually—never mind about consulting about it—treated this in the same way as other things, and actually took it really, really seriously and required schools to record all incidents of bullying, and not cop out to a consultation?

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Wel, rydych wedi meddwl am gofnodi statudol mewn perthynas ag achosion o hiliaeth mewn ysgolion ac rydych wedi meddwl am brofion papur ar gyfer darllen ac asesiadau eraill. Ar yr un pryd, mae un o bob 10 dysgwr yn ysgolion uwchradd gwladol Cymru yn dioddef bwlio bob wythnos. Golyga hynny fod mwy o blant yn cael eu bwlio nag sy'n methu cyrraedd targedau llythrennedd neu rifedd. Nid wyf wedi darllen unrhyw storïau newyddion am blant yn lladd eu hunain oherwydd eu bod ychydig ar ei hôl hi gyda'u darllen, ond rydym yn parhau i glywed adroddiadau am achosion o hunanladdiad yn dilyn bwlio. Ni waeth am ymgynghori yn ei gylch, onid yw'n bryd i chi drin hyn yn yr un modd â phethau eraill, a bod yn wirioneddol o ddifrif yn ei gylch, a'i gwneud yn ofynnol i ysgolion gofnodi pob achos o fwlio, heb ddefnyddio ymgynghoriad yn esgus?

Presiding Officer, I thought it was good practice, accepted across this Chamber that before Governments change their policy and impose what some people in this Chamber would regard as bureaucratic rules on schools, that we actually consult with those—[Interruption.]—we actually consult—[Interruption.]—we actually consult with those that will be responsible for ensuring that all of our children are able to ensure that schools are free from any kind of anti-social behaviour or bullying in this way. That's why we carry out the consultation. 

Any child—every child—should feel safe and happy in school, and any child that is not requires— deserves—proper support. As regards those parents that have lost a child, only today I met with such a parent to engage their help to ensure that our strategy is as good as it could be. 

Lywydd, cyn i Lywodraethau newid eu polisi a gosod yr hyn y byddai rhai pobl yn y Siambr hon yn eu hystyried yn rheolau biwrocrataidd ar ysgolion, roeddwn yn meddwl ei fod yn arfer da sy'n cael ei dderbyn ar draws y Siambr hon, ein bod yn ymgynghori â'r rheini—[Torri ar draws.]—ein bod yn ymgynghori—[Torri ar draws.]—ein bod yn ymgynghori â'r rheini a fydd yn gyfrifol am sicrhau bod ein holl blant yn gallu sicrhau bod ysgolion yn rhydd o unrhyw fath o ymddygiad gwrth-gymdeithasol neu fwlio yn y modd hwn. Dyna pam ein bod yn cynnal yr ymgynghoriad.

Dylai unrhyw blentyn—pob plentyn—deimlo'n ddiogel ac yn hapus yn yr ysgol, ac mae unrhyw blentyn nad yw'n teimlo felly angen—yn haeddu—cymorth priodol. O ran rhieni sydd wedi colli plentyn, cyfarfûm heddiw â rhiant yn y sefyllfa honno i gael eu cymorth er mwyn sicrhau bod ein strategaeth cystal ag y gall fod.

14:00
Rhaglen Gwella Gwyliau’r Haf
The School Holiday Enrichment Programme

3. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am baratoadau ar gyfer cynllun haf 2019 rhaglen gwella gwyliau’r haf? OAQ53145

3. Will the Minister provide an update on preparations for the 2019 summer scheme of the school holiday enrichment programme? OAQ53145

Thank you, Vikki. I am delighted that, as part of the final budget for 2019-20, we have made an additional £400,000 available for this programme, bringing the total for 2019-20 to £900,000. This will enable local authorities and partners to support even more families this summer. 

Diolch, Vikki. Rwy'n falch iawn, fel rhan o'r gyllideb derfynol ar gyfer 2019-20, ein bod yn darparu £400,000 yn ychwanegol ar gyfer y rhaglen hon, gan ddod â'r cyfanswm ar gyfer 2019-20 i £900,000. Bydd hyn yn galluogi awdurdodau lleol a phartneriaid i gefnogi hyd yn oed mwy o deuluoedd dros yr haf hwn.

Thank you, Minister, and one of the key roles of this enrichment programme is obviously to tackle holiday hunger. What discussions have you had with the new First Minister about how he plans to use educational schemes such as this to fulfil his campaign pledge to eliminate holiday hunger in Wales? 

Diolch, Weinidog, ac un o rolau allweddol y rhaglen wella hon, yn amlwg, yw mynd i'r afael â newyn gwyliau. Pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda'r Prif Weinidog newydd ynglŷn â sut y mae'n bwriadu defnyddio cynlluniau addysgol fel hyn i gyflawni addewid ei ymgyrch i ddileu newyn gwyliau yng Nghymru?

This is a shared priority for both myself and the new First Minister. We know that the food and fun clubs do indeed play an important role in tackling the issue of food hunger, but they also have an important role in preventing learning loss, which is a real issue for many children, especially those from poorer backgrounds, that can occur over the long six-week summer holiday. I'm delighted to say that we will hopefully move from a situation where we had 53 schemes operating last summer to a situation where we will have 83 schemes operating in this summer to come.

And also we've been able as a Welsh Government—recognising the pressure that is on local authority budgets, we've been able to change the intervention rates. So, Welsh Government is picking up more of the bill to alleviate some of the financial pressures that are on local authorities, and I do hope that that means that the six local authorities that to date have not offered the food and fun programme in the summer holidays will be incentivised to come forward and will want to enable that this service is available to their citizens come the summer holidays. 

Mae hon yn flaenoriaeth a rennir gennyf fi a'r Prif Weinidog newydd. Gwyddom fod y clybiau bwyd a hwyl yn chwarae rhan bwysig yn mynd i'r afael â phroblem newyn bwyd, ond mae ganddynt rôl bwysig i'w chwarae hefyd yn atal colli dysgu, sy'n broblem go iawn i lawer o blant, yn enwedig plant o gefndiroedd tlotach, ac sy'n gallu digwydd dros y gwyliau hir o chwe wythnos yn yr haf. Rwy'n falch o ddweud y byddwn, gobeithio, yn symud o sefyllfa lle'r oedd gennym 53 o gynlluniau ar waith yr haf diwethaf i sefyllfa lle y bydd gennym 83 o gynlluniau'n gweithredu dros yr haf sydd i ddod.

Ac rydym hefyd wedi gallu, fel Llywodraeth Cymru—gan gydnabod y pwysau sydd ar gyllidebau awdurdodau lleol, rydym wedi gallu newid y cyfraddau ymyrryd. Felly, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ysgwyddo mwy o'r gost er mwyn lleddfu rhywfaint ar y pwysau ariannol ar awdurdodau lleol, ac rwy'n gobeithio bod hynny'n golygu y bydd y chwe awdurdod lleol nad ydynt, hyd yma, wedi cynnig y rhaglen fwyd a hwyl yn ystod gwyliau'r haf yn cael eu cymell i wneud hynny ac y byddant yn awyddus i sicrhau bod y gwasanaeth hwn ar gael i'w trigolion erbyn gwyliau'r haf.

Minister, I too am concerned about learning loss, which has long been identified as an issue, particularly in deprived areas, where children who have made great progress in catching up on some key skills—for instance, numeracy and literacy—then lose out during the summer period. I know, when Cardiff University reviewed this programme in 2016, they said it was very important that there should be continual evaluation of the scheme and its impact, and I wonder how core the learning component is to these schemes now, and what your ambition is for it to be common and pervasive throughout them all.  

Weinidog, rwyf innau hefyd yn bryderus ynglŷn â cholli dysgu, sydd wedi'i nodi fel problem ers peth amser, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig, lle y mae plant sydd wedi gwneud cynnydd gwych yn dal i fyny ar sgiliau allweddol—er enghraifft, llythrennedd a rhifedd—ar eu colled wedyn yn ystod yr haf. Pan adolygodd Prifysgol Caerdydd y rhaglen hon yn 2016, gwn eu bod wedi dweud ei bod yn bwysig iawn cynnal gwerthusiadau parhaus o'r cynllun a'i effaith, a tybed pa mor greiddiol yw'r elfen ddysgu i'r cynlluniau hyn bellach, a beth yw eich uchelgais i'r elfen honno fod yn gyffredin ac yn dreiddiol ym mhob un ohonynt.

You're absolutely right, David. As I said to Vikki Howells, the scheme provides two very important roles—to tackle the issue of holiday hunger, but, from an education Minister's point of view, of course, I'm primarily interested in educational attainment. And we do know, for some of these children, that learning loss is a real problem, and that those children returning to school in the September term can take many, many weeks to catch up to where they were before the summer holidays. That's why this scheme is delivered in our schools rather than in a more generic setting and also why we take the opportunity during the scheme to insist that parents come in—parents and carers come in—at least once a week, because another important role that the scheme plays is actually bringing parents into school to develop those relationships, because that also has a profound effect on the learning outcomes for those children. And, of course, as we move forward with more local authorities taking part in the scheme, we are carrying out close evaluation so that we have the evidence to demonstrate that this is money that is being well invested. 

As I said, to date, there are six local authorities that have not participated in the scheme. I hope that, with the greater flexibility and the greater intervention weight that Welsh Government has put forward, more local authorities will be able to feel they can take part.  

Rydych yn llygad eich lle, David. Fel y dywedais wrth Vikki Howells, mae'r cynllun yn darparu dwy rôl bwysig iawn—trechu newyn gwyliau, ond fel Gweinidog addysg, wrth gwrs, fy mhrif ddiddordeb yw cyrhaeddiad addysgol. Ac i rai o'r plant hyn, gwyddom fod colli dysgu yn broblem wirioneddol, ac y gall plant sy'n dychwelyd i'r ysgol ym mis Medi gymryd wythnosau lawer i gyrraedd lle'r oeddent cyn gwyliau'r haf. Dyna pam y darperir y cynllun hwn yn ein hysgolion yn hytrach nag mewn lleoliad mwy generig, a pham hefyd ein bod yn manteisio ar y cyfle yn ystod y cynllun i fynnu bod rhieni'n dod i mewn—rhieni a gofalwyr yn dod i mewn—o leiaf unwaith yr wythnos, gan mai rôl bwysig arall a gyflawnir gan y cynllun yw dod â rhieni i mewn i'r ysgol i ddatblygu'r berthynas honno, gan fod hynny hefyd yn cael effaith ddwys ar ganlyniadau dysgu'r plant hynny. Ac wrth gwrs, wrth inni symud ymlaen gyda mwy o awdurdodau lleol yn cymryd rhan yn y cynllun, rydym yn cynnal gwerthusiad manwl er mwyn sicrhau bod gennym y dystiolaeth i ddangos bod yr arian hwn yn cael ei fuddsoddi'n dda.

Fel y dywedais, hyd yma, mae chwech awdurdod lleol heb gymryd rhan yn y cynllun. Gyda'r hyblygrwydd ychwanegol a phwysau'r ymyrraeth ychwanegol a gyflwynwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd mwy o awdurdodau lleol yn teimlo y gallant gymryd rhan.

I'm delighted about the extra money for food and fun and also the hope that all local authorities will take part in this important holiday scheme. I just wondered if you can have a look at the 'Appetite for Life' guidelines to ensure that what children are offered in school is what—you know, is being effective at ensuring that children are eating healthily in school. This is so important in the context of children consuming twice the sugar intake that they should be consuming—we've seen evidence of that earlier. So, the 'Appetite for Life' guidelines need to be adhered to in the spirit and the letter of the guidelines and I have some concerns that that is not happening. 

Rwy'n falch iawn ynglŷn â'r arian ychwanegol ar gyfer bwyd a hwyl yn ogystal â'r gobaith y bydd pob awdurdod lleol yn cymryd rhan yn y cynllun gwyliau pwysig hwn. Tybed a allwch edrych ar y canllawiau 'Blas am Oes' i sicrhau mai'r hyn a gynigir i blant yn yr ysgol yw—wyddoch chi, ei fod yn effeithiol o ran sicrhau bod plant yn bwyta'n iach yn yr ysgol. Mae hyn mor bwysig yng nghyd-destun y ffaith bod plant yn bwyta dwywaith cymaint o siwgr ag y dylent—gwelsom dystiolaeth o hynny yn gynharach. Felly, mae angen cadw at ganllawiau 'Blas am Oes' mewn ysbryd ac yn llythrennol ac rwy'n bryderus braidd nad yw hynny'n digwydd.

14:05

Well, if the Member has concerns then I'm obviously willing to look at that. The meals that are provided at the food and fun club are ones that are prepared and delivered by existing school catering staff. If the chicken curry that I had last year in a school in Ely in Cardiff is anything to go by, the children are very lucky indeed; it was delicious. 

Wel, os oes gan yr Aelod bryderon, rwy'n amlwg yn fwy na pharod i edrych ar hynny. Caiff y prydau bwyd a ddarperir yn y clwb bwyd a hwyl eu paratoi a'u darparu gan staff arlwyo presennol yr ysgol. Os yw'r cyrri cyw iâr a gefais y llynedd mewn ysgol yn Nhrelái yng Nghaerdydd yn enghraifft, mae'r plant yn ffodus iawn; roedd yn flasus tu hwnt.

Mynediad i Ddysgu Gydol Oes
Access to Lifelong Learning

4. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u cael gyda sefydliadau addysg bellach am ddarparu gwell mynediad i ddysgu gydol oes? OAQ53143

4. What discussions has the Minister had with further education institutions on delivering greater access to lifelong learning? OAQ53143

Upskilling and employment provide the most sustainable route out of poverty. In Wales, we have a number of programmes to help those in greatest need of our support and aiding access to lifelong learning opportunities. We work closely with our further education sector to ensure the success of all of those programmes.

Uwchsgilio a chyflogaeth sy'n darparu'r llwybr mwyaf cynaliadwy allan o dlodi. Yng Nghymru, mae gennym nifer o raglenni i helpu'r rheini sydd angen ein cymorth fwyaf, ac i gefnogi mynediad at gyfleoedd dysgu gydol oes. Rydym yn gweithio'n agos â'n sector addysg bellach i sicrhau llwyddiant pob un o'r rhaglenni hynny.

Minister, thank you for that answer. I welcome the fact that you're now looking after FE as well as the other aspects and your comments earlier today indicate that you're keen to ensure that FE remains the jewel in one of the crowns of the education sector in Wales. But, clearly, many of those programmes and access to lifelong learning, which provides opportunities for people to go further on in either education, training or employment, are funded by the EU. Now, as a consequence of that, and the possibility of a 'no deal' Brexit coming on 29 March, will you be having urgent discussions with FE institutions and your colleagues in Welsh Government to look at how we can actually continue delivering those programmes, working with FE colleges, so our people do not lose out on the opportunities that they offer?

Weinidog, diolch am eich ateb. Croesawaf y ffaith eich bod bellach yn edrych ar ôl addysg bellach yn ogystal â'r agweddau eraill ac mae eich sylwadau yn gynharach heddiw yn awgrymu eich bod yn awyddus i sicrhau bod addysg bellach yn parhau i fod yn un o brif drysorau'r sector addysg yng Nghymru. Ond yn amlwg, mae llawer o'r rhaglenni hynny a mynediad at ddysgu gydol oes, sy'n darparu cyfleoedd i bobl gamu ymlaen ymhellach naill ai mewn addysg, hyfforddiant neu gyflogaeth, yn cael eu hariannu gan yr UE. Nawr, o ganlyniad i hynny, a'r posibilrwydd o Brexit 'dim bargen' ar 29 Mawrth, a fyddwch yn cael trafodaethau brys gyda sefydliadau addysg bellach a'ch cydweithwyr yn Llywodraeth Cymru i edrych ar sut y gallwn barhau i ddarparu'r rhaglenni hynny, gan weithio gyda cholegau addysg bellach, fel nad yw ein pobl yn colli'r cyfleoedd y maent yn eu cynnig?

The Member, Presiding Offer, identifies a real risk to this particular agenda. Not only will I be working closely with FE colleges to mitigate that risk and to ensure that we can continue to provide these very important programmes, I hope the Member will be as pleased as I am that, in the new agreement between myself and the new First Minister, we have a commitment to exploring the right to—exploring the provision of a right to lifelong learning for everybody here in Wales. I think this is a really exciting proposition and I'm keen to work with colleagues in FE to make that a reality. 

Lywydd, mae'r Aelod yn nodi risg wirioneddol i'r agenda benodol hon. Nid yn unig y byddaf yn gweithio'n agos gyda cholegau addysg bellach i liniaru'r risg honno ac i sicrhau y gallwn barhau i ddarparu'r rhaglenni tra phwysig hyn, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd yr Aelod mor falch â minnau fod gennym ymrwymiad yn y cytundeb newydd rhyngof fi a'r Prif Weinidog newydd i archwilio'r hawl i—archwilio darpariaeth yr hawl i ddysgu gydol oes i bawb yma yng Nghymru. Credaf fod hwn yn gynnig cyffrous iawn ac rwy'n awyddus i weithio gyda chydweithwyr ym maes addysg bellach i'w wireddu.

Minister, I'm interested to explore the right for lifelong learning that you said, obviously, you've signed up to with the new First Minister. I met the FE colleges the other day and they made the point that their average age of learner is about 25, it is, rather than someone who's 16 or 17, and, through the modern workplace, it is about constant evaluation and constant challenge. What do you imagine your proposals might look like—because, obviously, to sign the agreement, you must have an understanding of where you want this journey to go—and when might we see some of these proposals actually become a reality, because it is a huge issue for people to train on the job today here in Wales? 

Weinidog, mae gennyf ddiddordeb mewn archwilio'r hawl i ddysgu gydol oes y dywedoch eich bod wedi ymrwymo iddi gyda'r Prif Weinidog newydd. Cyfarfûm â'r colegau addysg bellach y diwrnod o'r blaen a gwnaethant y pwynt fod oedran cyfartalog eu dysgwyr oddeutu 25, yn hytrach na rhywun sy'n 16 neu 17, a thrwy'r gweithle modern, mae'n ymwneud â gwerthuso cyson a her gyson. Sut y credwch y caiff eich cynigion eu gwireddu—oherwydd, yn amlwg, er mwyn llofnodi'r cytundeb, mae'n rhaid ichi ddeall i ble rydych am i'r daith hon fynd—a phryd y gallem weld rhai o'r cynigion hyn yn cael eu gwireddu, gan ei fod yn fater enfawr i bobl hyfforddi yn y gweithle heddiw yma yng Nghymru?

Andrew, you are absolutely right to point to the fact that the average age of a learner is not often what we would envisage it to be. Often, when we talk about learners in this Chamber, we think about 16-year-olds or 18-year-olds; we don't think about those who are older in age. You also clearly identified what is a very important issue: as the world of work changes, we need to be able to provide opportunities for those individuals to go in and out of education to equip themselves to be able to move as the demands of the economy move so that they too can keep themselves in meaningful employment or find a way in which they can aspire to better paid jobs in the industry they're already in. Too often, we've focused our courses on courses that are over a long-term commitment, and very, very few people can take significant breaks either from their caring responsibilities or work responsibilities to return to education full time. Therefore, it's important we've done this in higher education with our part-time support for degree programmes, but we will need to look at how we can support individuals, perhaps through an individual learning account, where people are able to use that right and resources to be able to access education at a time and in a way that suits them and gives them the skills and qualifications so that they can, as I said, secure employment, change employment, and respond to the economy they find themselves working in.  

Andrew, rydych yn llygad eich lle yn tynnu sylw at y ffaith nad yw oedran cyfartalog dysgwyr yn cyfateb i'r hyn y byddem yn ei ddisgwyl. Yn aml, pan fyddwn yn sôn am ddysgwyr yn y Siambr hon, byddwn yn meddwl am bobl 16 oed neu 18 oed; nid ydym yn meddwl am y rheini sy'n hŷn. Rydych wedi nodi mater pwysig iawn yn glir hefyd: wrth i'r byd gwaith newid, mae angen inni allu darparu cyfleoedd i'r unigolion hynny fynd i mewn ac allan o addysg er mwyn paratoi eu hunain i allu newid wrth i ofynion yr economi newid fel y gallant aros mewn cyflogaeth ystyrlon neu ddod o hyd i ffordd o ymgyrraedd at swyddi â chyflogau gwell yn y diwydiant y maent ynddo eisoes. Yn rhy aml, rydym wedi canolbwyntio ein cyrsiau ar gyrsiau sy'n cynnwys ymrwymiad hirdymor, ac ychydig iawn o bobl sy'n gallu cymryd seibiant sylweddol naill ai o'u cyfrifoldebau gofalu neu gyfrifoldebau gwaith i ddychwelyd i addysg amser llawn. Felly, mae'n bwysig ein bod wedi gwneud hyn mewn addysg uwch gyda'n cymorth rhan-amser ar gyfer rhaglenni gradd, ond bydd angen inni edrych ar sut y gallwn gefnogi unigolion, efallai drwy gyfrif dysgu unigol, lle y gall pobl ddefnyddio'r hawl a'r adnoddau hynny i allu cael mynediad at addysg ar adeg ac mewn ffordd sy'n gweddu iddynt hwy ac sy'n rhoi'r sgiliau a'r cymwysterau iddynt er mwyn iddynt allu sicrhau cyflogaeth, fel y dywedais, neu newid cyflogaeth, ac ymateb i'r economi y maent yn gweithio ynddi.

Minister, in recent years we have seen a drop in the number of adults pursuing lifelong learning opportunities at our FE colleges. However, the sector still provides learning opportunities to nearly 65 per cent of Wales's 250,000 adult learners. The FE sector is facing a funding crisis due to recent cuts. What assessment has your Government made of the impact these cuts will have on lifelong learning opportunities?

Weinidog, dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, rydym wedi gweld gostyngiad yn nifer yr oedolion sy'n mynd ar drywydd cyfleoedd dysgu gydol oes yn ein colegau addysg bellach. Fodd bynnag, mae'r sector yn dal i ddarparu cyfleoedd dysgu i bron 65 y cant o'r 250,000 o oedolion sy'n ddysgwyr yng Nghymru. Mae'r sector addysg bellach yn wynebu argyfwng ariannu o ganlyniad i doriadau diweddar. Pa asesiad y mae eich Llywodraeth wedi'i wneud o effaith y toriadau hyn ar gyfleoedd dysgu gydol oes?

14:10

Well, as I said in answer to questions earlier on, we are doing what we can to support the FE sector, most recently in providing them with additional resources to tackle the issue of pay, which was the right thing to do in partnership with them. With regard to the future of adult education, you will be aware that the Government has recently concluded a consultation on the future of adult education, and I am currently considering responses to that and will make a statement in the Chamber when I am able to do so and I am secure in my way forward.

Wel, fel y dywedais wrth ateb cwestiynau yn gynharach, rydym yn gwneud yr hyn a allwn i gefnogi'r sector addysg bellach, yn fwyaf diweddar drwy ddarparu adnoddau ychwanegol iddynt fynd i'r afael â mater cyflogau, a dyna oedd y peth iawn i'w wneud mewn partneriaeth â hwy. O ran dyfodol addysg i oedolion, byddwch yn gwybod bod y Llywodraeth wedi cwblhau ymgynghoriad ar ddyfodol addysg i oedolion yn ddiweddar, ac ar hyn o bryd, rwy'n ystyried ymatebion i'r ymgynghoriad hwnnw a byddaf yn gwneud datganiad yn y Siambr pan allaf wneud hynny a phan fyddaf yn sicr o fy ffordd ymlaen.

Y Cynllun Brecwast am Ddim mewn Ysgolion Cynradd
The Free Breakfast in Primary Schools Scheme

5. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am y cynllun brecwast am ddim mewn ysgolion cynradd? OAQ53119

5. Will the Minister make a statement on the free breakfast in primary schools scheme? OAQ53119

Free breakfast in primary schools has been a flagship Welsh Government scheme for over 15 years. It is integral to our wider work to support our youngest learners to be emotionally and physically ready to learn by providing them with a healthy start to the school day.

Mae brecwast am ddim mewn ysgolion cynradd wedi bod yn un o gynlluniau blaenllaw Llywodraeth Cymru ers dros 15 mlynedd. Mae'n rhan annatod o'n gwaith ehangach i gynorthwyo ein dysgwyr ieuengaf i fod yn barod yn emosiynol ac yn gorfforol ar gyfer dysgu drwy roi dechrau iach i'r diwrnod ysgol.

Thanks, Minister. The ethos behind the scheme is first class, but some of my constituents have written to me with concerns that some children from disadvantaged backgrounds may be missing out. That's because their difficult lives at home may make it difficult for them to consistently get into school on time to benefit from the free food, which can affect their learning. It's a sad fact that there are children in Wales who live in real poverty and go hungry. So, has the Government explored the possibility of providing free food later on in the morning for those children who are unable to attend the breakfast club before school?

Diolch, Weinidog. Mae'r ethos wrth wraidd y cynllun yn wych, ond mae rhai o fy etholwyr wedi ysgrifennu ataf yn mynegi pryderon am ei bod hi'n bosibl nad yw rhai plant o gefndiroedd difreintiedig yn gallu elwa ohono, a hynny oherwydd y gallai eu bywydau anodd gartref ei gwneud yn anodd iddynt fynd i'r ysgol ar amser yn gyson i fanteisio ar y bwyd am ddim, a gallai hynny effeithio ar eu dysgu. Mae'n ffaith drist fod yna blant yng Nghymru sy'n byw mewn tlodi go iawn ac yn mynd heb fwyd. Felly, a yw'r Llywodraeth wedi ystyried y posibilrwydd o ddarparu bwyd am ddim yn nes ymlaen yn y bore ar gyfer y plant sy'n methu mynychu'r clwb brecwast cyn i'r ysgol ddechrau?

As of January 2018, 88 per cent of all maintained primary schools are offering a free breakfast club, allowing learners at that school to benefit, as I said, from that healthy breakfast before they start the school day. Indeed, the evidence would suggest—and I have to admit, and there are people who've been in the Chamber long enough to know that I was highly sceptical of the free breakfast scheme when it was first introduced, but the evidence and the evaluation that have subsequently been carried—[Interruption.] The evidence and evaluation that have been carried out actually have proven the fact that this does make a difference, and I would be the first to admit that, having had that evaluation carried out, this policy makes a difference. One of the ways it does make a difference, actually, is that it is the ability to access that food that is the incentive for parents and, indeed, sometimes, sadly, children on their own, to get themselves out of bed, dressed, and to the school. So, we also need to have conversations with schools about how we can ensure more children are able to do that, but I have not had any conversations about making that food available later on in the day. But there is good practice out there. I would draw the Member's attention to a school in Wrexham constituency serving a deprived community, where the headteacher uses some of his pupil development grant to create a walking bus. And, actually, staff of that school go into the local housing estate, they collect the children from home, they walk them into school, so that they can attend breakfast club and so that they will be ready for the school day. It's such innovative practice on behalf of the headteacher, enabled by the pupil development grant, that I applaud.

Ers mis Ionawr 2018, mae 88 y cant o'r holl ysgolion cynradd a gynhelir yn cynnig clwb brecwast am ddim, gan ganiatáu i ddysgwyr yn yr ysgol honno fanteisio, fel y dywedais, ar y brecwast iach hwnnw cyn iddynt ddechrau'r diwrnod ysgol. Yn wir, byddai'r dystiolaeth yn awgrymu—ac mae'n rhaid imi gyfaddef, ac mae pobl sydd wedi bod yn y Siambr yn ddigon hir i wybod fy mod yn amheus iawn o'r cynllun brecwast am ddim pan gafodd ei gyflwyno gyntaf, ond mae'r dystiolaeth a'r gwerthuso a gynhaliwyd ers hynny—[Torri ar draws.] Mae'r dystiolaeth a'r gwerthuso a gynhaliwyd wedi profi bod hyn yn gwneud gwahaniaeth, a fi fyddai'r cyntaf i gyfaddef, wedi cynnal y gwerthusiad hwnnw, fod y polisi hwn yn gwneud gwahaniaeth. Un o'r ffyrdd y mae'n gwneud gwahaniaeth, mewn gwirionedd, yw mai'r gallu i gael mynediad at y bwyd hwnnw yw'r cymhelliad i rieni, ac yn wir, y plant eu hunain weithiau, yn anffodus, i godi o'r gwely, i wisgo, ac i'r ysgol. Felly, mae angen inni gael sgyrsiau gydag ysgolion hefyd ynglŷn â sut y gallwn sicrhau bod mwy o blant yn gallu gwneud hynny, ond nid wyf wedi cael unrhyw sgyrsiau ynglŷn â sicrhau bod y bwyd hwnnw ar gael yn nes ymlaen yn y dydd. Ond mae arferion da i'w cael. Hoffwn dynnu sylw'r Aelod at ysgol yn etholaeth Wrecsam sy'n gwasanaethu cymuned ddifreintiedig, lle y mae'r pennaeth yn defnyddio peth o'i grant datblygu disgyblion i greu bws cerdded. Ac mewn gwirionedd, mae staff yr ysgol honno'n mynd i'r ystâd dai leol, maent yn casglu'r plant o'u cartrefi, maent yn eu hebrwng i'r ysgol, fel y gallant fynychu clwb brecwast ac fel y byddant yn barod ar gyfer y diwrnod ysgol. Rwy'n cymeradwyo arfer mor arloesol ar ran y pennaeth, ac fe'i galluogir gan y grant datblygu disgyblion.

I seem to remember some time back, Minister, being pretty positive about the free breakfast scheme when, possibly, some Members weren't, including you, obviously, but water under the bridge. The Welsh Government's free school breakfast scheme has been a flagship policy, as you yourself said, for many of your predecessors for a long period of time, but it has come under increasing pressure over recent years, with a number of councils reducing the opening hours of breakfast clubs and others introducing charges, albeit low-level charges. What support are you giving to local authorities to help maintain access to breakfast clubs to make sure that those children who do really need that nourishment that that breakfast gives them are able to access it in the future?

Gallaf gofio, beth amser yn ôl, Weinidog, fy mod yn teimlo'n eithaf cadarnhaol ynghylch y cynllun brecwast am ddim, pan nad oedd rhai Aelodau, gan eich cynnwys chi, yn amlwg, mor frwd, ond mae hynny'n hen hanes bellach. Mae cynllun brecwast ysgol am ddim Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn bolisi blaenllaw, fel y dywedoch, i lawer o'ch rhagflaenwyr am gyfnod hir o amser, ond mae wedi dod o dan bwysau cynyddol dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, gyda nifer o gynghorau yn lleihau oriau agor clybiau brecwast ac eraill yn codi tâl, er mai tâl bach iawn ydyw. Pa gefnogaeth rydych yn ei rhoi i awdurdodau lleol i'w helpu i gynnal mynediad at glybiau brecwast er mwyn sicrhau bod y plant sydd wir angen y maeth y mae'r brecwast yn ei roi iddynt yn gallu cael mynediad ato yn y dyfodol?

I am aware that some local authorities have made different decisions about how they organise breakfast clubs. You will be aware that, in 2013-14, that financial year, the funding mechanism for free breakfasts in primary schools changed from a direct grant, and now that money is made available via the revenue support grant. Breakfasts are free, but individual local authorities and schools are able to make a small charge if, for instance, that club is being used for a longer period of time, essentially for childcare and wraparound care, which some parents do need and do utilise. But the 30-minute slot for free breakfast should not be charged for.

Rwy'n ymwybodol fod rhai awdurdodau lleol wedi gwneud penderfyniadau gwahanol ynglŷn â sut y maent yn trefnu clybiau brecwast. Fe fyddwch yn gwybod, yn 2013-14, y flwyddyn ariannol honno, fod y mecanwaith ariannu ar gyfer brecwast am ddim mewn ysgolion cynradd wedi newid o grant uniongyrchol, a bod yr arian hwnnw bellach yn cael ei ddarparu drwy'r grant cynnal refeniw. Mae'r brecwast am ddim, ond gall ysgolion ac awdurdodau lleol unigol godi tâl bach, er enghraifft, os defnyddir y clwb am gyfnod hwy o amser, ar gyfer gofal plant a gofal cofleidiol i bob pwrpas, y bydd rhai rhieni ei angen ac yn ei ddefnyddio. Ond ni ddylid codi tâl am y slot 30 munud ar gyfer brecwast am ddim.

14:15
Cyllid Ysgolion yr Unfed Ganrif ar Hugain
Twenty-First Century Schools Funding

6. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyllid Ysgolion yr 21ain Ganrif? OAQ53139

6. Will the Minister make a statement on 21st Century Schools funding? OAQ53139

The twenty-first century schools programme will see investment of £1.4 billion over the five-year period, ending now, this year, in 2019. A further £2.3 billion investment is planned from April of this year onward, and the programme is delivered in partnership with local authorities and others who prioritise the projects that need to be delivered.

Bydd rhaglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain wedi darparu buddsoddiad o £1.4 biliwn dros y cyfnod pum mlynedd, sy'n dod i ben yn awr, eleni, yn 2019. Mae £2.3 biliwn ychwanegol o fuddsoddiad wedi'i gynllunio o fis Ebrill eleni ymlaen, a darperir y rhaglen mewn partneriaeth ag awdurdodau lleol ac eraill sy'n rhoi blaenoriaeth i'r prosiectau y mae angen eu darparu.

Thank you very much for that summary, actually. You've previously told Mike Hedges that £34 million of the £51 million that went to Swansea under band A, for which—I just want to make this plain: I completely welcome that investment. But it showed that 66 per cent of the money that went into the Swansea city area went to Swansea East, and, actually, nothing at all went into Swansea West. Now, I appreciate what you said about the councils prioritising this, but I'm being told by councillors in Swansea that some schools in Swansea West and Gower are either not being told how to apply for this funding or are not told properly how they might pitch for this funding.

When band B is being introduced, would you undertake to make sure that schools are informed directly of how they might apply for this funding? Because even though they may be more affluent parts of Swansea, there are some schools in Swansea West and Gower that are basically just collections of portakabins, who are unaware that they could have actually made a bid for twenty-first century funding.

Diolch yn fawr iawn am y crynodeb hwnnw. Rydych eisoes wedi dweud wrth Mike Hedges fod £34 miliwn o'r £51 miliwn a aeth i Abertawe o dan fand A, sef—hoffwn ddweud hyn yn glir: croesawaf y buddsoddiad hwnnw'n llwyr. Ond dangosodd fod 66 y cant o'r arian a aeth i ardal dinas Abertawe wedi mynd i Ddwyrain Abertawe, ac mewn gwirionedd, nid aeth unrhyw beth o gwbl i Orllewin Abertawe. Nawr, rwy'n derbyn yr hyn a ddywedasoch ynglŷn â'r cynghorau'n blaenoriaethu hyn, ond dywed cynghorwyr yn Abertawe wrthyf fod rhai ysgolion yng Ngorllewin Abertawe a'r Gŵyr naill ai ddim yn cael gwybod sut i wneud cais am y cyllid hwn neu ddim yn cael gwybod yn briodol sut y gallant wneud cais am y cyllid.

Pan fydd band B yn cael ei gyflwyno, a wnewch chi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod ysgolion yn cael gwybod yn uniongyrchol sut y gallant wneud cais am y cyllid hwn? Oherwydd er eu bod mewn rhannau mwy cefnog o Abertawe, o bosibl, mae rhai ysgolion yng Ngorllewin Abertawe a'r Gŵyr nad ydynt yn y bôn yn ddim ond casgliadau o gabanau, ac nid ydynt yn ymwybodol y gallent fod wedi gwneud cais am gyllid rhaglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain.

It is not for individual schools to make an application to the twenty-first century schools fund. The applications need to have come from the individual local education authority, who should carry out a needs assessment and a building survey assessment of its school estate, and, therefore, appropriately apply for priorities within their own local authority area. Those applications that are made by local education authorities are overseen by an independent capital programme board who make recommendations to me as Minister, and there is a robust procedure in place to scrutinise the applications that come forward from LEAs. But, really, the Member needs to address this concern to members of Swansea local authority.

Nid cyfrifoldeb ysgolion unigol yw gwneud cais i gronfa ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Mae angen i'r ceisiadau ddod gan yr awdurdod addysg lleol unigol, a ddylai gynnal asesiad o anghenion ac asesiad arolwg adeiladau o'i ystâd ysgolion, a gwneud cais priodol felly am flaenoriaethau o fewn eu hardal awdurdod lleol eu hunain. Mae'r ceisiadau a wneir gan awdurdodau addysg lleol yn cael eu goruchwylio gan fwrdd rhaglen gyfalaf annibynnol sy'n gwneud argymhellion i mi fel Gweinidog, ac mae gweithdrefn gadarn ar waith i graffu ar y ceisiadau a gyflwynir gan awdurdodau addysg lleol. Ond mewn gwirionedd, mae angen i'r Aelod godi'r pryder hwn gydag aelodau o awdurdod lleol Abertawe.

Effaith Cynlluniau Arweinyddiaeth Disgyblion
The Impact of Pupil Leadership Schemes

7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am effaith cynlluniau arweinyddiaeth disgyblion mewn ysgolion? OAQ53118

7. Will the Minister provide an update on the impact of pupil leadership schemes in schools? OAQ53118

Pupil voice is key to informing policy and creating a productive educational environment for our schools. All pupils should have the opportunity to take part in making decisions about their learning, and we will continue to engage with children and young people as the new curriculum is made available for feedback.

Mae llais disgyblion yn allweddol i hysbysu polisi a chreu amgylchedd addysgol cynhyrchiol ar gyfer ein hysgolion. Dylai pob disgybl gael cyfle i gymryd rhan yn y broses o wneud penderfyniadau ynglŷn â'u dysgu, a byddwn yn parhau i ymgysylltu â phlant a phobl ifanc wrth i'r cwricwlwm newydd ddod yn agored ar gyfer cael adborth.

Thank you, Minister. Coed Eva Primary School in Cwmbran has recently been praised by Estyn for creating strategies to develop pupils' independence and attitudes to learning, one of which includes a pupil leadership scheme that involves the pupils conducting lesson observations, focusing upon learners' learning behaviours and attitude to learning and where they provide feedback to pupils and staff, including ways forward that impact on teaching and learning. They also give feedback to the senior leadership team and the school governing body. As a result of this and the other innovative work at Coed Eva school, pupils' well-being and attitudes to learning are reported to be very strong, and nearly all pupils behave in an exemplary manner in lessons and at break time. Will you join me in congratulating Coed Eva school and Blenheim Road school, the federated school, on their excellent work in this area? But can you say, as well, what lessons you think can be taken from this excellent practice and rolled out elsewhere in Wales?

Diolch, Weinidog. Mae Ysgol Gynradd Coed Efa yng Nghwmbrân wedi cael ei chanmol yn ddiweddar gan Estyn am greu strategaethau i ddatblygu annibyniaeth disgyblion a'u hagweddau at ddysgu, gydag un ohonynt yn cynnwys cynllun arweinyddiaeth disgyblion sy'n golygu bod disgyblion yn arsylwi ar wersi, gan ganolbwyntio ar ymddygiad dysgu dysgwyr a'u hagwedd at ddysgu a lle y maent yn darparu adborth i ddisgyblion a staff, gan gynnwys ffyrdd ymlaen sy'n effeithio ar addysgu a dysgu. Maent hefyd yn rhoi adborth i'r uwch dîm arwain a chorff llywodraethu'r ysgol. O ganlyniad i hyn a gwaith arloesol arall yn ysgol Coed Efa, ceir adroddiadau fod lles disgyblion a'u hagweddau at ddysgu yn gadarn iawn, ac mae bron bob disgybl yn ymddwyn mewn modd rhagorol mewn gwersi ac yn ystod amser egwyl. A wnewch chi ymuno â mi i longyfarch ysgol Coed Efa ac ysgol Ffordd Blenheim, yr ysgol ffederal, ar eu gwaith rhagorol yn y maes hwn? Ond a allwch ddweud hefyd pa wersi y credwch y gellir eu dysgu o'r arfer rhagorol hwn a'u cyflwyno mewn mannau eraill yng Nghymru?

Well, I'm delighted to do so. I've been fortunate enough to—well, in fact, I got to open the new Coed Eva Primary School, and I have visited its federated twin on a number of occasions, most recently, I have to say, on a very innovative mental health day that the children—not the staff, the children had planned, not just for their benefit, but, actually, for a range of primary schools in the local area to highlight areas around mental health and well-being. Gill Ellis, who is the head of that federation, is also one of our associates on the new academy of educational leadership, and it is by those kinds of mechanisms we can ensure that this good practice is spread throughout the system. So, Coed Eva should be congratulated. Although they are not alone—I know that Mike Hedges will be devastated that he's not in the Chamber to hear me say this, but on a recent visit to Ysgol Tan-y-lan with Mike Hedges in Swansea—. They've introduced a new system where pupils, for an afternoon a week, get to choose what they want to study. And that increase in pupil voice has led to increased attendance at the school and better results from the children themselves, which just shows the power of listening and empowering children in their own education and the difference that can make to them.

Wel, rwy'n falch iawn o wneud hynny. Rwyf wedi bod yn ddigon ffodus i—wel, mewn gwirionedd, cefais agor ysgol newydd Ysgol Gynradd Coed Efa, ac rwyf wedi ymweld â'i gefell ffederal ar sawl achlysur, yn fwyaf diweddar, mae'n rhaid imi ddweud, ar ddiwrnod iechyd meddwl arloesol iawn a drefnwyd gan y plant—nid y staff, y plant a'i cynlluniodd, nid yn unig er eu budd eu hunain, ond ar gyfer amryw o ysgolion cynradd yn yr ardal leol i dynnu sylw at feysydd yn ymwneud ag iechyd meddwl a lles. Mae Gill Ellis, pennaeth yr ysgol ffederal, hefyd yn un o'n partneriaid cyswllt yn yr academi arweinyddiaeth addysgol newydd, a thrwy'r mathau hynny o fecanweithiau gallwn sicrhau bod yr arferion da hyn yn cael eu rhannu drwy'r system gyfan. Felly, dylid llongyfarch ysgol Coed Efa. Er nad hwy yn unig—gwn y bydd Mike Hedges yn torri ei galon nad yw yn y Siambr i fy nghlywed yn dweud hyn, ond ar ymweliad diweddar ag Ysgol Tan-y-lan gyda Mike Hedges yn Abertawe—. Maent wedi cyflwyno system newydd lle y mae disgyblion, am un prynhawn yr wythnos, yn cael dewis beth y maent am ei astudio. Ac mae'r cynnydd hwnnw yn llais disgyblion wedi arwain at lefel uwch o bresenoldeb yn yr ysgol a chanlyniadau gwell gan y plant eu hunain, sy'n dangos grym gwrando a grymuso plant mewn perthynas â'u haddysg eu hunain a'r gwahaniaeth y gall hynny ei wneud iddynt.

14:20

Yn olaf, cwestiwn 8, Mohammad Asghar.

Finally, question 8, Mohammad Asghar.

Derbyniadau i Gyrsiau Prifysgol yng Nghymru
Acceptances to University Courses in Wales

8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am dderbyniadau i gyrsiau prifysgol yng Nghymru? OAQ53127

8. Will the Minister make a statement on acceptances to university courses in Wales? OAQ53127

I have noted the UCAS statistics on acceptances to full-time undergraduate courses for 2018-19. The slight reduction reflects the ongoing decline in the number of 18-year-olds in the United Kingdom. I am, however, encouraged by reports from some universities of increased applications for postgraduate and part-time undergraduate courses.

Rwyf wedi nodi ystadegau UCAS ar dderbyniadau i gyrsiau israddedig amser llawn ar gyfer 2018-19. Mae'r gostyngiad bychan yn adlewyrchu'r gostyngiad parhaus yn nifer y bobl 18 oed yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Fodd bynnag, ceir adroddiadau calonogol gan rai prifysgolion am fwy o geisiadau am gyrsiau ôl-raddedig a chyrsiau israddedig rhan-amser.

Thank you for the answer, Minister. According to the admissions service, UCAS, Wales is the only part of the United Kingdom where the total number of students given places fell last year, when compared to the previous year. Figures show the number of students accepted on full-time courses at Welsh universities fell by 5.7 per cent. Figures show also that Welsh applicants are the most likely to study outside their home country, in contrast to Scotland and Northern Ireland, where there are financial incentives for applicants to study at home universities. What action will the Minister take to reverse this decline and what incentive will she offer to encourage more Welsh applicants to study in home universities, please?

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Yn ôl y gwasanaeth derbyniadau, UCAS, Cymru yw'r unig ran o'r Deyrnas Unedig lle y gostyngodd cyfanswm y myfyrwyr a gafodd le ar gyrsiau y llynedd, o gymharu a'r flwyddyn flaenorol. Dengys ffigurau fod nifer y myfyrwyr a dderbyniwyd ar gyrsiau amser llawn ym mhrifysgolion Cymru wedi gostwng 5.7 y cant. Dengys ffigurau hefyd mai ymgeiswyr o Gymru yw'r rhai mwyaf tebygol o astudio y tu allan i'w mamwlad, yn wahanol i'r Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon, lle y ceir cymhellion ariannol i ymgeiswyr astudio ym mhrifysgolion eu gwlad. Pa gamau y bydd y Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i wrthdroi'r gostyngiad a pha gymhelliad y bydd yn ei gynnig i annog mwy o ymgeiswyr o Gymru i astudio ym mhrifysgolion eu gwlad, os gwelwch yn dda?

Of course, Presiding Officer, recruitment is a matter for individual institutions. What Welsh students have the advantage of is the most progressive and generous system of student support anywhere in the United Kingdom.

With regard to incentivising students to study in Wales, the Member will be aware, because, again, we discussed this this morning at the committee, when it comes to support for postgraduate study, that is only available for eligible applicants who undertake their postgraduate study in a Welsh institution.

Wrth gwrs, Lywydd, mater i sefydliadau unigol yw recriwtio. Y fantais sydd gan fyfyrwyr Cymru yw'r system fwyaf blaengar a hael o gymorth i fyfyrwyr yn y Deyrnas Unedig.

O ran cymell myfyrwyr i astudio yng Nghymru, bydd yr Aelod yn ymwybodol, oherwydd, unwaith eto, trafodasom hyn y bore yma yn y pwyllgor, o ran cymorth ar gyfer astudio ôl-raddedig, nid yw hwnnw ond ar gael i ymgeiswyr cymwys sy'n ymgymryd â'u hastudiaethau ôl-raddedig mewn sefydliad yn Nghymru.

2. Cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol
2. Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Hefin David.

The next item, therefore, is questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services, and the first question is from Hefin David.

Argaeledd Meddyginiaethau Fferyllol Dros y Cownter
The Availability of Over-The-Counter Pharmaceutical Drugs

1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am argaeledd meddyginiaethau fferyllol dros y cownter? OAQ53150

1. Will the Minister make a statement on the availability of over-the-counter pharmaceutical drugs? OAQ53150

Thank you for the question. There is good evidence that many general practitioner consultations are for minor ailments that could potentially be dealt with effectively by a community pharmacist, with medicines readily available from pharmacies without a prescription. Choose Pharmacy means that these ailments can be safely and accurately diagnosed with no need for medical interventions. 

Diolch am eich cwestiwn. Ceir tystiolaeth dda fod llawer o ymgynghoriadau meddygon teulu yn ymwneud â mân anhwylderau y gallai fferyllydd cymunedol ymdrin â hwy'n effeithiol o bosibl, gan fod meddyginiaethau ar gael yn rhwydd o fferyllfeydd heb bresgripsiwn. Golyga Dewis Fferyllfa y gellir gwneud diagnosis o'r anhwylderau hyn yn ddiogel ac yn gywir heb fod angen ymyriadau meddygol.

Some of the issues that the Minister is referring to were raised with me by Norgine, a pharmaceutical manufacturer in my constituency with a significant presence and it happens to be a Welsh anchor company, as well. The company made me aware of the consultation that the All Wales Medicines Strategy Group are currently undertaking—I think it closes on Friday—that is looking at conditions for which over-the-counter items should not be routinely prescribed in primary care. It seems to be a cut-and-paste consultation from one that took place earlier in England. The document lists 1,314 medicines available over the counter that are currently prescribed by GPs in Wales, covering 35 conditions. Norgine have raised some concerns with me, particularly the potential unintended consequences of adopting the guidance, including increased costs; disempowering prescribers; putting patients' outcomes at risk; creating inequalities in healthcare; and putting the most vulnerable members of society at risk. Will the Minister reflect on those concerns and also tell the Chamber when he plans to report back to this Parliament on the outcome of that consultation?

Cafodd rhai o'r materion y mae'r Gweinidog yn cyfeirio atynt eu dwyn i fy sylw gan Norgine, gweithgynhyrchwr fferyllol yn fy etholaeth gyda phresenoldeb sylweddol ac sy'n digwydd bod yn un o gwmnïau angori Cymru hefyd. Soniodd y cwmni wrthyf am yr ymgynghoriad sydd ar waith ar hyn o bryd gan Grŵp Strategaeth Feddyginiaethau Cymru—credaf ei fod yn dod i ben ddydd Gwener—sy'n edrych ar gyflyrau na ddylid rhoi presgripsiwn dros y cownter ar eu cyfer fel mater o drefn mewn gofal sylfaenol. Ymddengys ei fod yn gopi carbon o ymgynghoriad a gynhaliwyd yn gynharach yn Lloegr. Mae'r ddogfen yn rhestru 1,314 o feddyginiaethau sydd ar gael dros y cownter ac sy'n cael eu presgripsiynu ar hyn o bryd gan feddygon teulu yng Nghymru, ar gyfer 35 o gyflyrau. Mae Norgine wedi dwyn rhai pryderon i fy sylw, yn enwedig y canlyniadau anfwriadol posibl yn sgil mabwysiadu'r canllawiau, gan gynnwys costau cynyddol; dadrymuso presgripsiynwyr; peryglu canlyniadau i gleifion; creu anghydraddoldeb ym maes gofal iechyd; a pheryglu aelodau mwyaf agored i niwed cymdeithas. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ystyried y pryderon hyn, a dweud hefyd wrth y Siambr pa bryd y mae'n bwriadu adrodd yn ôl i'r Senedd ar ganlyniad yr ymgynghoriad hwnnw?

Yes, I'm happy to indicate that the consultation, as you indicate, is nearly finished, but it is a consultation. Because there is evidence that some over-the-counter medication does not represent good value, either in terms of value for money or efficacy, as well. So, I think it's quite right and proper to review that information and then to come up with new guidance.

There is always, though, the reality that the individual prescriber, whoever they are, has an individual responsibility to make an appropriate prescribing choice for the individual person in front of them. Now, I recognise some of the concerns the company has raised and that you've repeated here. They're concerns that I'm alive to, but I'd be more than happy to make sure that this Chamber is updated on the outcome of the consultation and on any new guidance that I may choose to endorse.

Gwnaf, rwy'n fwy na pharod i ddweud bod yr ymgynghoriad, fel y dywedoch, bron â dod i ben, ond ymgynghoriad ydyw. Oherwydd ceir tystiolaeth hefyd nad yw rhai meddyginiaethau dros y cownter yn darparu gwerth da, naill ai o ran gwerth am arian neu effeithiolrwydd. Credaf felly ei bod yn gwbl iawn a phriodol adolygu'r wybodaeth honno a llunio canllawiau newydd.

Y realiti o hyd, fodd bynnag, yw fod gan y presgripsiynydd unigol, pwy bynnag ydynt, gyfrifoldeb unigol i wneud dewis presgripsiynu priodol ar gyfer yr unigolyn ger eu bron. Nawr, rwy'n cydnabod rhai o'r pryderon a godwyd gan y cwmni ac a ailadroddwyd gennych yma. Maent yn bryderon rwy'n ymwybodol ohonynt, ond buaswn yn fwy na pharod i sicrhau bod y Siambr hon yn cael yr wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am ganlyniad yr ymgynghoriad ac am unrhyw ganllawiau newydd y gallwn ddewis eu cymeradwyo.

14:25

In their preparations for a possible 'no deal' Brexit, the UK Ministers for the NHS, at least in England, proposed allowing pharmacists to substitute certain drugs for ones with similar effects, where their professional judgment supports that. Does the Minister agree that, actually, generally, we should be allowing pharmacists greater discretion to deploy their professional judgment to serve their patients, to take pressure off GPs and to ensure cost-effective delivery?

Yn eu paratoadau ar gyfer y posibilrwydd o Brexit 'dim bargen', argymhellodd Gweinidogion y DU dros y GIG, yn Lloegr o leiaf, ganiatáu i fferyllwyr amnewid cyffuriau penodol am rai gydag effeithiau tebyg, lle y mae eu barn broffesiynol yn cefnogi hynny. A yw'r Gweinidog yn cytuno, yn gyffredinol, y dylem ganiatáu mwy o ddisgresiwn i fferyllwyr ddefnyddio eu barn broffesiynol i wasanaethu eu cleifion, er mwyn lleddfu'r pwysau ar feddygon teulu ac i sicrhau darpariaeth gosteffeithiol?

Yes, there is a challenge here about generic medications being more widely available and used within our whole healthcare system. There is then the related, but slightly different, challenge of making best use of the skills of our staff within the system, and pharmacists are absolutely within that domain. We've spoken on a number of occasions, in this place and outside, about making better use of the skills that the pharmacists have, not only in terms of assisting their colleagues within primary care, but actually being a port of call for citizens to receive advice and, if necessary, to have prescribed medication. So, not just in terms of our preparations for a catastrophic 'no deal' Brexit, but more generally about improving the efficacy and value for money and the experience of health and care, I expect us to make ever-greater use of the skills and expertise that pharmacists have to offer.

Ie, mae yma her ynghylch argaeledd ehangach meddyginiaethau generig a'u defnydd o fewn ein system gofal iechyd gyfan. Yna, ceir yr her gysylltiedig, ond ychydig yn wahanol, o wneud y defnydd gorau o sgiliau ein staff o fewn y system, ac mae fferyllwyr yn bendant yn rhan o hynny. Rydym wedi sôn ar sawl achlysur, yn y lle hwn a thu hwnt, am wneud gwell defnydd o'r sgiliau sydd gan fferyllwyr, nid yn unig mewn perthynas â chynorthwyo eu cydweithwyr mewn gofal sylfaenol, ond o ran bod yn bwynt cyswllt i roi cyngor i ddinasyddion, ac os oes angen, i ddarparu meddyginiaeth ar bresgripsiwn. Felly, nid yn unig o safbwynt ein paratoadau ar gyfer Brexit 'dim bargen' trychinebus, ond yn fwy cyffredinol o ran gwella effeithiolrwydd a gwerth am arian a'r profiad o iechyd a gofal, rwy'n disgwyl y byddwn yn gwneud defnydd mwy fyth o'r sgiliau a'r arbenigedd sydd gan fferyllwyr i'w cynnig.

A constituent has contacted my office this morning, Minister, incredibly worried that she's not able to obtain a specific drug, which she needs to control her epilepsy, even though the drug is freely available from pharmacies in England. The drug I'm referring to is called Epilim Chrono slow release. Now, she will run out of this drug shortly, she explained to my office staff this morning. So, will you urgently look into this matter to ensure that my constituent can receive this specific drug from a local pharmacy here in Wales? And if I do commit to write to you this afternoon, could I ask you to reply with urgency, Minister?

Mae etholwr wedi cysylltu â fy swyddfa y bore yma, Weinidog, yn hynod o bryderus am nad yw'n gallu cael gafael ar gyffur penodol y mae ei angen arni er mwyn rheoli ei hepilepsi, er bod y cyffur ar gael yn ddidrafferth mewn fferyllfeydd yn Lloegr. Enw'r cyffur y cyfeiriaf ato yw Epilim Chrono, cyffur rhyddhad araf. Nawr, eglurodd i staff fy swyddfa y bore yma y bydd ei chyflenwad o'r cyffur yn dirwyn i ben cyn bo hir. Felly, a wnewch chi edrych ar y mater hwn ar frys i sicrhau y gall fy etholwr gael y cyffur penodol hwn o fferyllfa leol yma yng Nghymru? Ac os ymrwymaf i ysgrifennu atoch y prynhawn yma, a gaf fi ofyn ichi ymateb ar fyrder, Weinidog?

If you write to me with the details, I'll make sure that an appropriate response is provided. Of course, you will understand that I can't intervene in individual treatment matters, but I'm more than happy to make sure that a proper response is provided, and I recognise the urgency with which you raise the matter.

Os ysgrifennwch ataf gyda'r manylion, byddaf yn sicrhau bod ymateb priodol yn cael ei ddarparu. Wrth gwrs, fe fyddwch yn deall na allaf ymyrryd mewn materion sy'n ymwneud â thriniaeth unigol, ond rwy'n fwy na pharod i sicrhau y darperir ymateb priodol, ac rwy'n cydnabod ei fod yn fater brys.

Gofal Iechyd yn Sir Drefaldwyn
Healthcare in Montgomeryshire

2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ddarparu gofal iechyd a gynllunir yn Sir Drefaldwyn? OAQ53117

2. Will the Minister make a statement on the delivery of planned healthcare in Montgomeryshire? OAQ53117

We continue to work with Powys teaching health board and other partners to take a range of actions to improve access to planned healthcare services that are safe, sustainable and as close to people’s homes as possible.

Rydym yn parhau i weithio gyda bwrdd iechyd addysgu Powys a phartneriaid eraill er mwyn rhoi amryw o gamau ar waith i wella mynediad at wasanaethau gofal iechyd wedi'i gynllunio sy'n ddiogel, yn gynaliadwy ac mor agos at gartrefi pobl â phosibl.

Thank you, Minister. I'm pleased to hear that. We're soon to hear the conclusion of a consultation that will see the outcome of a consultation in Shropshire. That will see the reconfiguration of services in Shropshire, and I believe, certainly, it's essential that we see some planned delivery delivered locally in our local community hospitals such as Newtown, Llanidloes, Welshpool or Machynlleth, to, of course, reduce the need for patients to travel even further following changes in Shropshire. And, of course, some—I emphasise 'some'—planned care procedures can be delivered more locally, which of course makes community hospitals more sustainable, and there are obvious other benefits of patients and families not having to travel even further again for some planned care. So, I'd be keen to understand how you believe that the Welsh Government, in partnership with Powys health board—how you can work with the health board, taking into account the expected changes that we're expecting to see happening in Shropshire.

Diolch, Weinidog. Rwy'n falch o glywed hynny. Cyn bo hir, byddwn yn clywed casgliadau ymgynghoriad a fydd yn arwain at ganlyniad ymgynghoriad yn Swydd Amwythig. Bydd hynny'n golygu ad-drefnu gwasanaethau yn Swydd Amwythig, ac yn sicr, credaf ei bod yn hanfodol ein bod yn sicrhau bod peth darpariaeth wedi'i chynllunio yn cael ei darparu'n lleol yn ein hysbytai cymunedol lleol megis y Drenewydd, Llanidloes, y Trallwng neu Fachynlleth, er mwyn lleihau'r angen, wrth gwrs, i gleifion deithio hyd yn oed ymhellach yn dilyn newidiadau yn Swydd Amwythig. Ac wrth gwrs, gellir darparu rhai—pwysleisiaf 'rhai'—triniaethau gofal wedi'i gynllunio yn fwy lleol, sydd wrth gwrs yn gwneud ysbytai cymunedol yn fwy cynaliadwy, a cheir manteision amlwg eraill lle na fydd raid i gleifion a'u teuluoedd deithio hyd yn oed ymhellach am ofal wedi'i gynllunio. Felly, rwy'n awyddus i ddeall sut y credwch fod Llywodraeth Cymru, mewn partneriaeth â bwrdd iechyd Powys—sut y gallwch weithio gyda'r bwrdd iechyd, gan ystyried y newidiadau rydym yn disgwyl eu gweld yn Swydd Amwythig.

There are two points here. The first is that Powys teaching health board already deliver a range of planned healthcare, and they actually have a very good track record on delivering that within time. They also have real ambition, which we're happy to support, to continue to deliver as much planned healthcare within Powys or as local to Powys as possible too. On a range of visits that I've undertaken out to settings within Powys, they've been talking about what else they are able to deliver within those settings, to reduce the time that people would otherwise take to travel to different centres. For example, in maternity care, more women are able to access complex maternity care that is midwife led within Powys, rather than having to travel further afield to do so, and those aspirations are, of course, supported by the general scheme within our plan, 'A Healthier Wales', the long-term plan for health and social care here in Wales.

I also recognise your broader point about the consultation within Shropshire, the Future Fit consultation, and I know that you've spoken about this on a number of occasions. The preferred option, option 1, would see the emergency care site remain in Shrewsbury, with planned care moving further away, and that is also the preference of the health board. We will know at the end of this month what option is to be pursued, and I look forward to having a properly constructive relationship between Powys health board and their partners. Of course, that will include seeing them through the current period of special measures within Shrewsbury, but Powys health board, you will be pleased to know, are on top of that situation and making sure that work that they commission on behalf of Powys residents is undertaken at the right time and at the right quality.

Ceir dau bwynt yma. Y cyntaf yw bod bwrdd iechyd addysgu Powys eisoes yn darparu amrywiaeth o ofal iechyd wedi'i gynllunio, ac mewn gwirionedd, mae ganddynt hanes da iawn o'i ddarparu ar amser. Mae ganddynt uchelgais gwirioneddol hefyd, ac rydym yn hapus i'w gefnogi, i barhau i ddarparu cymaint o ofal iechyd wedi'i gynllunio ym Mhowys neu mor lleol i Bowys â phosibl. Ar nifer o fy ymweliadau â lleoliadau ym Mhowys, maent wedi sôn am beth arall y gallant ei ddarparu yn y lleoliadau hynny er mwyn lleihau'r amser y byddai pobl yn ei gymryd fel arall i deithio i ganolfannau gwahanol. Er enghraifft, mewn gofal mamolaeth, gall mwy o fenywod gael mynediad at ofal mamolaeth cymhleth a arweinir gan fydwraig ym Mhowys, yn hytrach na gorfod teithio'n bellach i'w gael, a chefnogir y dyheadau hynny, wrth gwrs, gan y cynllun cyffredinol o fewn ein cynllun, 'Cymru Iachach', y cynllun iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol hirdymor yma yng Nghymru.

Rwyf hefyd yn cydnabod eich pwynt ehangach ynglŷn â'r ymgynghoriad yn Swydd Amwythig, ymgynghoriad Future Fit, a gwn eich bod wedi sôn am hyn ar sawl achlysur. Byddai'r opsiwn a ffafrir, opsiwn 1, yn golygu bod y safle gofal brys yn aros yn yr Amwythig, gyda gofal wedi'i gynllunio yn symud ymhellach i ffwrdd, a dyna'r opsiwn a ffafrir gan y bwrdd iechyd hefyd. Byddwn yn gwybod erbyn diwedd y mis pa opsiwn a ddewisir, ac edrychaf ymlaen at weld perthynas wirioneddol adeiladol rhwng bwrdd iechyd Powys a'u partneriaid. Wrth gwrs, bydd hynny'n cynnwys eu gweld yn mynd drwy'r cyfnod presennol o fesurau arbennig yn yr Amwythig, ond byddwch yn falch o glywed bod bwrdd iechyd Powys yn ymdopi â'r sefyllfa honno ac yn sicrhau bod gwaith y maent yn ei gomisiynu ar ran trigolion Powys yn cael ei gyflawni ar yr adeg iawn ac i'r safon iawn.

14:30

Can I just take the opportunity formally to congratulate you on retaining your post? I look forward to working with you. I meant to do that in committee this morning and apologise for neglecting to do so. 

To return, obviously, to the issue of planned healthcare in Montgomeryshire, you'll be aware, of course, of the important role that GP surgeries can play in this regard and some of the major challenges that Powys health board is facing in recruiting and retaining GPs. One of the issues that has been put to me as a matter of concern is that GPs often have large and quite-expensive-to-run-and-maintain premises, and that there is increasing reluctance amongst younger doctors to take on the kind of commitment required to run those kinds of premises, as well as to be delivering primary healthcare. What support and guidance is the Welsh Government giving to health boards to enable them to work constructively with GPs, particularly as those GPs may be moving up towards the age of retirement, to ensure that we can retain these important facilities, particularly in those rural communities?

A gaf fi fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn i'ch llongyfarch yn ffurfiol ar gadw eich swydd? Edrychaf ymlaen at weithio gyda chi. Roeddwn wedi bwriadu gwneud hynny yn y pwyllgor y bore yma ac rwy'n ymddiheuro am fethu gwneud hynny.

I ddychwelyd, yn amlwg, at fater gofal iechyd wedi'i gynllunio yn Sir Drefaldwyn, fe fyddwch yn gwybod, wrth gwrs, am y rôl bwysig y gall meddygfeydd meddygon teulu ei chwarae yn hyn o beth a rhai o'r heriau mawr y mae bwrdd iechyd Powys yn eu hwynebu o ran recriwtio a chadw meddygon teulu. Un o'r materion o bryder sydd wedi eu dwyn i fy sylw yw fod gan feddygon teulu safleoedd mawr sy'n eithaf drud i'w rhedeg a'u cynnal yn aml, a bod amharodrwydd cynyddol ymhlith meddygon iau i ysgwyddo'r math o ymrwymiad sydd ei angen i redeg y mathau hynny o safleoedd yn ogystal â darparu gofal iechyd sylfaenol. Pa gymorth ac arweiniad y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei ddarparu i fyrddau iechyd i'w galluogi i weithio'n adeiladol gyda meddygon teulu, yn enwedig gan y gallai'r meddygon teulu hynny fod yn agosáu at oedran ymddeol, i sicrhau y gallwn gadw'r cyfleusterau pwysig hyn, yn enwedig mewn cymunedau gwledig?

Yes, of course I recognise the challenge. It's not simply local to Montgomeryshire, as I'm sure you and other Members know. Around the country there are challenges with facilities that have served their local population well over a period of time, but we now recognise we all want to see them reformed and improved. So, that's being resolved in a number of different ways, with health boards having partnerships with individual practices, with groups of practices, and indeed with local government and housing partners too. You can see a range of areas where that partnership has been a good thing for the provision of local services to move into new purpose-built facilities. 

There's also the broader challenge, not just about premises, but indemnity and last-man or last-person-standing potential liabilities, which are a real issue for younger GPs, who may not wish to enter into a partnership, but more than that, a change in the way that people want to work. A number of younger GPs, regardless of those issues, simply don't want to buy into a practice and give a very long-term commitment. All of those things are a regular part of our discussion within the general practice committee of the British Medical Association, and they're a regular feature of my discussions with each individual health board and their partners. 

Rwy'n cydnabod yr her, wrth gwrs. Nid yn Sir Drefaldwyn yn unig y mae'n digwydd, fel y gwyddoch chi a'r Aelodau eraill, rwy'n siŵr. Ledled y wlad, ceir heriau gyda chyfleusterau sydd wedi gwasanaethu eu poblogaethau lleol yn dda dros gyfnod o amser, ond rydym bellach yn cydnabod bod pob un ohonom am eu gweld yn cael eu diwygio a'u gwella. Felly, mae hynny'n cael ei ddatrys mewn nifer o ffyrdd gwahanol, gyda byrddau iechyd yn mynd i bartneriaeth â phractisau unigol, â grwpiau o bractisau, ac yn wir, â phartneriaid llywodraeth leol a'r maes tai hefyd. Gallwch weld amrywiaeth o ardaloedd lle y mae'r bartneriaeth honno wedi bod yn beth da ar gyfer symud y ddarpariaeth o wasanaethau lleol i gyfleusterau pwrpasol newydd.

Ceir her ehangach hefyd, nid yn unig mewn perthynas â safleoedd, ond ynghylch indemniad a rhwymedigaethau posibl yr unigolyn 'olaf i adael', ac mae hynny'n broblem go iawn i feddygon teulu iau, nad ydynt o bosibl yn dymuno mynd i bartneriaeth, ond yn fwy na hynny, oherwydd newid yn y ffordd y mae pobl eisiau gweithio. Ceir nifer o feddygon teulu ifanc, ni waeth am y materion hynny, nad ydynt yn dymuno prynu i mewn i bractis a gwneud ymrwymiad hirdymor iawn. Mae'r holl bethau hynny'n rhan reolaidd o'n trafodaeth ym mhwyllgor ymarfer cyffredinol Cymdeithas Feddygol Prydain, ac maent yn rhan reolaidd o fy nhrafodaethau gyda phob bwrdd iechyd unigol a'u partneriaid.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cwestiynau nawr i'r Gweinidog gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Helen Mary Jones. 

Questions now to the Minister for the party spokespeople. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Helen Mary Jones. 

Diolch yn fawr eto, Llywydd. 

Thank you very much again, Llywydd. 

Minister, we were discussing in committee this morning the ongoing concerns on some of the issues around Brexit and the healthcare system, and you'll be aware that on 17 November the issue of The British Medical Journal starkly stated that patients will die if we can't maintain the medicine supply chain. Can you update us on the contingency plans that your department is putting into place to ensure the supply of medicines, particularly medicines with limited shelf lives that cannot be stored in the event of a 'no deal' scenario, which, of course, we're all hoping may not occur, but is becoming increasingly a risk?

Weinidog, yn y pwyllgor y bore yma, buom yn trafod y pryderon parhaus ynglŷn â rhai o'r materion sy'n ymwneud â Brexit a'r system gofal iechyd, ac fe fyddwch yn gwybod fod rhifyn 17 Tachwedd o'r British Medical Journal wedi datgan yn blwmp ac yn blaen y bydd cleifion yn marw os na allwn gynnal y gadwyn gyflenwi meddyginiaethau. A allwch roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni ynglŷn â chynlluniau wrth gefn eich adran i ddiogelu'r cyflenwad o feddyginiaethau, yn enwedig meddyginiaethau gydag oes silff gyfyngedig na ellir eu storio mewn senario 'dim bargen', sy'n rhywbeth y mae pob un ohonom yn gobeithio na fydd yn digwydd wrth gwrs, ond sy'n dod yn fwy ac yn fwy o risg?

Thank you for the question. As you know, I've made statements in this place before about our preparations for any form of Brexit, but in particular a 'no deal' Brexit. I've set out the range and the seriousness of my concerns about the impact of a 'no deal' Brexit. And the undeniable truth is that if we crash out without a deal at the end of March, it will have a real and almost immediate impact upon people's health and well-being. The reality is that if we have challenges about trading arrangements, not simply about whether people do or don't wish to continue to supply a range of medical devices, equipment and medicines, then there will be an impact.

I have a further meeting with the health and social care stakeholders in Wales, focusing on Brexit, tomorrow. Myself and the Deputy Minister will be attending. We'll continue to outline with them the current state of our preparations, both within Wales and, indeed, the measures we are seeking to take together with partners across the United Kingdom. I may well be in a position to update this place with a further statement on our preparations for, and the impact of, a 'no deal' Brexit within a very short period of time. 

Diolch am eich cwestiwn. Fel y gwyddoch, rwyf wedi gwneud datganiadau yn y lle hwn eisoes am ein paratoadau ar gyfer unrhyw fath o Brexit, ond yn benodol am Brexit 'dim bargen'. Rwyf wedi nodi hyd a lled a difrifoldeb fy mhryderon ynghylch effaith Brexit 'dim bargen'. A'r gwir diymwad yw, os ydym yn gadael heb gytundeb ar ddiwedd mis Mawrth, bydd hynny'n cael effaith wirioneddol a bron ar unwaith ar iechyd a lles pobl. Y gwir amdani yw, os ydym yn wynebu heriau gyda threfniadau masnachu, nid yn unig ynglŷn ag a yw pobl yn dymuno parhau i gyflenwi ystod o ddyfeisiau meddygol, offer a meddyginiaethau ai peidio, yna bydd hynny'n cael effaith.

Byddaf yn cael cyfarfod pellach gyda rhanddeiliaid iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru yfory i ganolbwyntio ar Brexit. Bydd y Dirprwy Weinidog a minnau yn ei fynychu. Byddwn yn parhau i amlinellu cyflwr presennol ein paratoadau iddynt, yng Nghymru, ac yn wir, y camau rydym yn ceisio'u cymryd ar y cyd â phartneriaid ledled y Deyrnas Unedig. Efallai y byddaf mewn sefyllfa i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r lle hwn am ein paratoadau ar gyfer Brexit 'dim bargen' a'i effaith heb fod yn hir iawn.

I'm grateful to you for that, Minister, and I think the whole Chamber will look forward to that update. As I've said, it's a situation that we're all hoping will be avoided, but does seem to be becoming more of a real threat. I'd like to give you a specific example to illustrate the dangers that we face, which I'm sure you're very well aware of. The radioactive isotope technetium is used in about 850,000 scans in the UK for a whole range of conditions, including heart disease and cancers. This product has a half-life of just 66 hours, meaning that it can't be stored and stockpiled. Currently, the UK as a whole relies on a continuous supply of this product from France, Belgium and the Netherlands, and that supply is governed by the Euratom agreement. The nearest potential non-EU suppliers are in South Africa and Ontario in Canada, and obviously couldn't be useful to us in this situation. And, obviously, this is only one example, because there are many types of isotopes that can't be stockpiled. We know that even under the existing arrangements Northern Ireland had problems twice—in 2009 and 2013—due to the logistical challenges of getting this product in time. Can you explain how hospitals in Wales will be getting these types of products in the event of a 'no deal' Brexit?

Rwy'n ddiolchgar ichi am hynny, Weinidog, a chredaf y bydd y Siambr gyfan yn edrych ymlaen at gael yr wybodaeth honno. Fel y dywedais, mae'n sefyllfa y mae pob un ohonom yn gobeithio'i hosgoi, ond ymddengys ei bod yn dod yn fwy o fygythiad go iawn. Hoffwn roi enghraifft benodol i chi er mwyn dangos y peryglon sy'n ein hwynebu, ac rwy'n siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol iawn ohoni. Defnyddir yr isotop ymbelydrol technetiwm mewn oddeutu 850,000 o sganiau yn y DU ar gyfer amrywiaeth eang o gyflyrau, gan gynnwys clefyd y galon a chanser. Mae gan y cynnyrch hwn hanner-oes o 66 awr yn unig, sy'n golygu na ellir ei gadw a'i storio. Ar hyn o bryd, mae'r DU yn ei chyfanrwydd yn dibynnu ar gyflenwad parhaol o'r cynnyrch hwn o Ffrainc, Gwlad Belg a'r Iseldiroedd, a rheolir y cyflenwad hwnnw gan gytundeb Euratom. Mae'r cyflenwyr posibl agosaf nad ydynt yn yr UE yn Ne Affrica ac yn Ontario yng Nghanada, ac yn amlwg, ni allant fod yn ddefnyddiol i ni yn y sefyllfa hon. Ac yn amlwg, un enghraifft yn unig yw hon, gan fod sawl math o isotop na ellir eu storio. Gwyddom fod Gogledd Iwerddon, hyd yn oed dan y trefniadau presennol, wedi cael problemau ddwywaith—yn 2009 ac yn 2013—oherwydd yr heriau logistaidd sy'n ymwneud â chyflenwi'r cynnyrch mewn pryd. A allwch egluro sut y bydd ysbytai yng Nghymru yn cael y mathau hyn o gynhyrchion pe baem yn cael Brexit 'dim bargen'?

14:35

In the event of a 'no deal' Brexit, it will be virtually impossible to continue supply chains in exactly the same way as now. Much of this comes on road freight and the undeniable reality is that if there are problems in road freight that affect our ports, as you'll have seen from the exercise undertaken recently and reported in the Financial Times—hardly an organ of fearmongering or left-wing conspiracy theories—it demonstrates the significant and quite shocking impact of minor delays for all freight transport coming into the country. The alternative plan, which is not a secret, is about, if that were to be the case, whether medicines with very short half-lives before they're no longer useful—and I've regularly talked about nuclear medicine and radioisotopes in the past as well—for those to be flown, and that would undeniably provide an additional cost, and it may affect the supply. But the additional cost would then have to be borne by the taxpayer. So, there is, undeniably, a challenge, and I've also regularly talked about the challenge for insulin that is made for type 1 diabetics. We make nothing like enough insulin for type 1 diabetics to cover our own population. And, again, in a 'no deal' Brexit, that is one of the very real risks to directly affect people's health and well-being almost immediately.

Pe bai Brexit 'dim bargen', byddai bron iawn yn amhosibl i gadwyni cyflenwi barhau yn yr un ffordd ag y maent yn ei wneud ar hyn o bryd. Caiff llawer o hyn ei gludo ar y ffyrdd a'r realiti diymwad yw, os oes problemau gyda chludo nwyddau ar y ffyrdd sy'n effeithio ar ein porthladdoedd, fel y byddwch wedi'i weld yn sgil yr ymarfer a gynhaliwyd yn ddiweddar ac yr adroddwyd yn ei gylch yn y Financial Times—a phrin fod y papur hwnnw'n offeryn i godi bwganod neu'n lledaenu damcaniaethau cynllwyn asgell chwith—mae'n dangos effaith sylweddol ac eithaf syfrdanol mân achosion o oedi ar yr holl nwyddau sy'n cael eu cludo i mewn i'r wlad. Pe bai hynny'n digwydd, mae'r cynllun arall, nad yw'n gyfrinach, yn ymwneud â pha un a ellir trefnu i feddyginiaethau gyda hanner-oes byr iawn cyn iddynt orffen bod yn ddefnyddiol—ac rwyf wedi siarad droeon am feddyginiaeth niwclear a radioisotopau yn y gorffennol hefyd—gael eu hedfan draw ac yn ddiau, byddai hynny'n arwain at gost ychwanegol, a gallai effeithio ar y cyflenwad. Ond wedyn, byddai'n rhaid i'r trethdalwr ysgwyddo'r gost ychwanegol. Felly, heb amheuaeth, mae'n her, ac rwyf hefyd wedi sôn droeon am yr her i inswlin a gynhyrchir ar gyfer pobl â diabetes math 1. Nid ydym yn cynhyrchu agos digon o inswlin ar gyfer pobl â diabetes math 1 yn ein poblogaeth. Ac unwaith eto, mewn Brexit 'dim bargen', dyna un o'r peryglon gwirioneddol a fyddai'n effeithio'n uniongyrchol ar iechyd a lles pobl bron ar unwaith.

Thank you, Minister, and perhaps you can give us some further information following the stakeholder meeting about the precise arrangements if we do face the issue of having to fly medicines in.

You mentioned in your response the additional cost to the NHS. As part of the potential 'no deal' Brexit preparations—. I must say that I have some frustrations with Members there; I'm sure that you will have opportunities to respond to these points to the Minister, but it's very difficult to have a sensible conversation about these issues when people are making comments from a sedentary position.

Minister, have you made any assessment of what these potential extra costs might be, and how is that being built into your contingency planning? I realise that these potential costs are, at this stage, theoretical, and hopefully that's an issue that we won't have to face, but I'm sure that you would agree with me that it's crucial that, in terms of planning for the worst-case scenario, you have some clear idea about what those additional costs you may need to face are.

Diolch, Weinidog, ac efallai y gallwch roi rhagor o wybodaeth inni yn dilyn y cyfarfod â'r rhanddeiliaid ynghylch yr union drefniadau pe baem yn wynebu gorfod hedfan meddyginiaethau draw.

Soniasoch yn eich ymateb am y gost ychwanegol i'r GIG. Fel rhan o'r paratoadau ar gyfer y posibilrwydd o Brexit 'dim bargen'—. Mae'n rhaid imi ddweud bod yr Aelodau draw acw'n peri peth rhwystredigaeth i mi; rwy'n siŵr y cewch gyfle i ymateb i'r pwyntiau hyn i'r Gweinidog, ond mae'n anodd iawn cael trafodaeth synhwyrol ynglŷn â'r materion hyn pan fydd pobl yn gwneud sylwadau ar eu heistedd.

Weinidog, a ydych wedi gwneud unrhyw asesiad o'r costau ychwanegol posibl hyn, a sut y mae hynny'n cael ei gynnwys yn eich cynlluniau wrth gefn? Rwy'n sylweddoli bod y costau posibl hyn, ar hyn o bryd, yn rhai damcaniaethol, a gobeithio y bydd hwnnw'n fater na fydd yn rhaid inni ei wynebu, ond rwy'n siŵr y byddech yn cytuno ei bod hi'n hanfodol, o ran cynllunio ar gyfer y senario waethaf, fod gennych ryw fath o syniad clir ynglŷn â'r costau ychwanegol y gallech orfod eu hwynebu.

Yes, there's a challenge about theoretical costs, but costs are actually being soaked up now. For example, there's the additional cost that the health service across the four nations of the UK is undertaking to increase storage capacity, and the costs that we are spending now on planning for potential scenarios, when we know that at least one scenario is not going to be—well, more than one scenario is not going to be the reality where we find ourselves at the end of March. Every Government within the United Kingdom is having to run through this particular challenge. Officials regularly speak to each other, as well as our individual conversations within each of the four UK nations. I do hope to be in a position to provide more information about cost, about the arrangements that we are undertaking. I also hope that there will be a positive response from health Minister counterparts across the UK—four health Ministers of different Governments and different political backgrounds—to nevertheless have a constructive and upfront conversation about what we can do to support each other, and the risks that we each recognise exist, depending on whatever form of Brexit occurs, should we leave the European Union, and the impact that would have on our health and social care system. I know that my colleague in Scotland is equally keen to have that meeting with our counterpart in the United Kingdom Government and whoever would attend from the Northern Ireland Government—whichever official that may be.

Ie, mae yna her ynghylch costau damcaniaethol, ond mewn gwirionedd, mae'r costau'n cynyddu ar hyn o bryd. Er enghraifft, ceir cost ychwanegol y mae'r gwasanaeth iechyd ledled pedair gwlad y DU yn ei hysgwyddo i gynyddu capasiti storio, a'r costau rydym yn eu gwario ar hyn o bryd ar gynllunio ar gyfer senarios posibl, pan wyddom nad yw un senario o leiaf am fod—wel, ni fydd mwy nag un senario yn realiti erbyn diwedd mis Mawrth. Mae pob Llywodraeth yn y Deyrnas Unedig yn gorfod ymdopi â'r her benodol hon. Mae swyddogion yn siarad â'i gilydd yn rheolaidd, yn ogystal â'n sgyrsiau o fewn pedair gwlad y DU yn unigol. Rwy'n gobeithio bod mewn sefyllfa i ddarparu mwy o wybodaeth am gostau, am y trefniadau rydym yn eu cyflawni. Rwy'n gobeithio hefyd y cawn ymateb cadarnhaol gan Weinidogion iechyd cyfatebol ledled y DU—pedwar Gweinidog iechyd y gwahanol Lywodraethau o wahanol gefndiroedd gwleidyddol—i gael sgwrs adeiladol ac agored serch hynny ynglŷn â'r hyn y gallwn ei wneud i gefnogi ein gilydd, a'r peryglon y mae pob un ohonom yn cydnabod eu bod yn bodoli, gan ddibynnu ar ba ffurf o Brexit a gawn, os ydym yn gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, a'r effaith y byddai hynny'n ei chael ar ein system iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Gwn fod fy ngweinidog cyfatebol yn yr Alban yr un mor awyddus i gael y cyfarfod hwnnw gyda'n gweinidog cyfatebol yn Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig a pha swyddog bynnag a fyddai'n mynychu o Lywodraeth Gogledd Iwerddon.

Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Darren Millar.

The Conservative spokesperson, Darren Millar.

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, can I ask you why it's taken you so long to intervene in the situation in Cwm Taf university health board?

Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, a gaf fi ofyn i chi pam ei bod wedi cymryd cyhyd i ymyrryd yn y sefyllfa ym mwrdd iechyd prifysgol Cwm Taf?

It hasn't taken a long time at all. I've kept this Chamber updated at all points on the intervention around the initial issue around maternity care, and, indeed, following the very recent tripartite meeting between the chief executive of NHS Wales, Healthcare Inspectorate Wales and the Wales Audit Office, I made an early choice—as you will have seen from today's written statement—to change the escalation status of Cwm Taf from 'normal' to 'enhanced monitoring'. And I of course will be answering a topical question on this matter in a few minutes' time.

Nid yw wedi cymryd llawer o amser o gwbl. Rwyf wedi rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Siambr hon ar bob pwynt mewn perthynas â'r ymyrraeth o ran y mater cychwynnol ynghylch gofal mamolaeth, ac yn wir, yn dilyn y cyfarfod tairochrog diweddar iawn rhwng prif weithredwr GIG Cymru, Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru a Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, gwneuthum ddewis cynnar—fel y byddwch wedi'i weld o'r datganiad ysgrifenedig heddiw—i newid statws uwchgyfeirio Cwm Taf o 'arferol' i 'monitro gwell'. Ac wrth gwrs, byddaf yn ateb cwestiwn amserol ar y mater hwn ymhen ychydig funudau.

14:40

It was on 4 October, Minister, that concerns about maternity services were first exposed at the Cwm Taf university health board. Your statement today refers to non-compliance with health and safety and radiation regulations, quality of governance and serious incident reporting arrangements, the lack of action and response to healthcare inspectorate reports, and staffing shortages also in that health board being problematic. Many people in that health board area will be wondering why on earth it's taken three months—more than three months—for the Welsh Government to escalate the situation there in order to secure some improvement.

Of course, Cwm Taf is not the only health board that is currently in escalation measures. Five out of seven Welsh health boards, supporting 2.4 million people in Wales—three quarters of our population—are currently being served by health boards that are subject to intervention. Does that not concern you, in terms of the speed of the response, because it certainly concerns me?    

Ar 4 Hydref, Weinidog, amlygwyd pryderon am y tro cyntaf ynglŷn â gwasanaethau mamolaeth bwrdd iechyd prifysgol Cwm Taf. Cyfeiria eich datganiad heddiw at ddiffyg cydymffurfio â rheoliadau iechyd a diogelwch ac ymbelydredd, ansawdd llywodraethu a threfniadau adrodd ynghylch digwyddiadau difrifol, diffyg gweithredu ac ymateb i adroddiadau'r arolygiaeth gofal iechyd, a phrinder staff hefyd fel ffactorau sy'n achosi problemau yn y bwrdd iechyd hwnnw. Bydd llawer o bobl yn ardal y bwrdd iechyd yn pendroni pam ar y ddaear ei bod wedi cymryd tri mis—mwy na thri mis—i Lywodraeth Cymru uwchgyfeirio'r sefyllfa yno er mwyn sicrhau rhywfaint o welliant.

Wrth gwrs, nid Cwm Taf yw'r unig fwrdd iechyd sydd mewn mesurau uwchgyfeirio ar hyn o bryd. Mae pump o'r saith bwrdd iechyd yng Nghymru, sy'n cefnogi 2.4 miliwn o bobl yng Nghymru—tri chwarter ein poblogaeth—yn cael eu gwasanaethu ar hyn o bryd gan fyrddau iechyd sy'n destunau ymyrraeth. Onid yw hynny'n peri pryder ichi, o ran cyflymder yr ymateb, gan ei fod yn bendant yn peri pryder i mi?

Well, I would hope there would be a more rational and factually founded response on these matters. Trying to conflate the issue of maternity services with the areas that are outlined in my written statement today simply does not stand up to honest scrutiny. On maternity services, we acted properly and promptly, with the conversations that took place between the chief nurse's office and the health board, and the decision that I then took that the review jointly by two royal colleges should be undertaken independently, with the Government actually being, if you like, the sponsoring organisation, rather than the health board. I expect to have that report available in the spring. So, these matters are being addressed appropriately and are being addressed speedily by the Government and the broader health service. I look forward to being able to provide more facts on this matter as that report is provided, as indeed I expect to have more to say on the actions that will be taken by the health board in response to my decision today to change the escalation status of Cwm Taf university health board. 

Wel, buaswn yn gobeithio cael ymateb mwy rhesymol a seiliedig ar ffeithiau ar y materion hyn. Nid yw ceisio cyfuno mater gwasanaethau mamolaeth gyda'r meysydd a amlinellir yn fy natganiad ysgrifenedig heddiw yn gydnaws â chraffu gonest. Ar wasanaethau mamolaeth, fe wnaethom weithredu'n briodol ac yn amserol, gyda'r sgyrsiau a ddigwyddodd rhwng swyddfa'r brif nyrs a'r bwrdd iechyd, a'r penderfyniad a wneuthum wedyn y dylid cynnal adolygiad ar y cyd gan ddau goleg brenhinol yn annibynnol, gyda'r Llywodraeth mewn gwirionedd, os mynnwch, yn gweithredu fel y corff noddi, yn hytrach na'r bwrdd iechyd. Rwy'n disgwyl i'r adroddiad hwnnw fod ar gael yn y gwanwyn. Felly, mae'r materion hyn yn cael sylw priodol ac yn cael sylw cyflym gan y Llywodraeth a'r gwasanaeth iechyd ehangach. Edrychaf ymlaen at allu darparu mwy o ffeithiau ar y mater hwn wrth i'r adroddiad gael ei ddarparu, fel yn wir y disgwyliaf allu dweud mwy ynglŷn â'r camau y bydd y bwrdd iechyd yn eu cymryd mewn ymateb i fy mhenderfyniad heddiw i newid statws uwchgyfeirio bwrdd iechyd prifysgol Cwm Taf.

The situation, of course, should have been escalated from day one as soon as the maternity situation had been exposed in that particular health board, and I'm sure that many people will have been disappointed with the speed at which the Welsh Government has acted.

You failed to respond to the fact that five out of seven health boards are currently in escalation intervention arrangements of some form and that three quarters of the Welsh population are being served by those health boards. Doesn't that tell you, if five out of seven health boards are currently in escalation arrangements—many of them have been in for a long time, including the Betsi Cadwaladr health board, over three and a half years to date and no sign of it being taken out of special measures yet—doesn't that tell you that you are a failing Welsh Labour Government that's failing to get to grips with the problems in our national health service, and that you are not acting swiftly enough to remedy them? 

Dylai'r sefyllfa, wrth gwrs, fod wedi cael ei huwchgyfeirio o'r cychwyn cyntaf cyn gynted ag y daeth y sefyllfa mamolaeth i'r amlwg yn y bwrdd iechyd penodol hwnnw, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd llawer o bobl wedi eu siomi gan ba mor araf y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gweithredu.

Nid ydych wedi ymateb i'r ffaith bod pump o'r saith bwrdd iechyd yn destun trefniadau ymyrryd ac uwchgyfeirio o ryw fath ar hyn o bryd a bod tri chwarter poblogaeth Cymru yn cael eu gwasanaethu gan y byrddau iechyd hynny. Onid yw hynny'n dweud wrthych, os yw pump o'r saith bwrdd iechyd yn destun trefniadau uwchgyfeirio ar hyn o bryd—ac mae llawer ohonynt wedi bod felly ers peth amser, gan gynnwys bwrdd iechyd Betsi Cadwaladr, dros dair blynedd a hanner hyd yma heb unrhyw arwydd eto o'u tynnu allan o fesurau arbennig—onid yw hynny'n dweud wrthych eich bod yn Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru sy'n methu, ac wedi methu mynd i'r afael â phroblemau yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, ac nad ydych yn gweithredu'n ddigon cyflym i'w datrys?

Well, it is much easier, as the Member demonstrates, to chase headlines than to deal with the facts in front of them. It would have been entirely wrong—it would have been entirely wrong—as the Member knows very well, to have intervened in October on the very first day when concerns were raised about maternity services. I am doing the right thing by the country and by the people served by these individual health boards and indeed by the staff who deliver those services. I expect there to be proper scrutiny of the choices that I make and of the conduct of each and every health organisation within the country. An escalation, of course, has taken place for different reasons in different health boards and I look forward to organisations reducing their level of escalation as well, as I expect will happen at various points over the next year and more.

We are planning for the future, and we are delivering that future, and, indeed, the people of Wales have great faith and confidence in our health service, as every single recognition of people's experience of healthcare demonstrates. The future for health and care services is a difficult one. We face a rising tide of demand, fast and rapid technological change and, of course, as we all know, a period of continuing austerity. Regardless of that, we have planned for the future. We have a long-term plan—a joint plan—for health and social care and I look forward to the United Kingdom Government catching up and having a joint plan—

Wel, fel y dengys yr Aelod, mae'n haws o lawer mynd ar drywydd penawdau nag ymdrin â'r ffeithiau o'u blaen. Byddai wedi bod yn gwbl anghywir—byddai wedi bod yn gwbl anghywir—fel y gŵyr yr Aelod yn iawn, inni ymyrryd ym mis Hydref ar y diwrnod cyntaf pan godwyd y pryderon ynghylch gwasanaethau mamolaeth. Rwy'n gwneud y peth iawn ar gyfer y wlad ac ar gyfer y bobl a wasanaethir gan y byrddau iechyd unigol hyn, ac yn wir, ar gyfer y staff sy'n darparu'r gwasanaethau. Rwy'n disgwyl y ceir craffu priodol ar y dewisiadau a wnaf yn ogystal ag ar ymddygiad pob sefydliad iechyd yn y wlad. Mae trefniadau uwchgyfeirio, wrth gwrs, wedi digwydd am wahanol resymau mewn gwahanol fyrddau iechyd ac edrychaf ymlaen at weld sefydliadau'n gostwng eu lefel uwchgyfeirio hefyd, fel rwy'n disgwyl ei weld yn digwydd ar adegau gwahanol dros y flwyddyn a mwy nesaf.

Rydym yn cynllunio ar gyfer y dyfodol, ac rydym yn darparu'r dyfodol hwnnw, ac yn wir, mae gan bobl Cymru ffydd a hyder mawr yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd, fel y dengys pob cydnabyddiaeth o brofiad pobl o ofal iechyd. Mae dyfodol gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal yn un anodd. Rydym yn wynebu ymchwydd yn y galw, newid technolegol sydyn a chyflym, ac wrth gwrs, fel y gŵyr pob un ohonom, cyfnod o gyni parhaus. Er hynny, rydym wedi cynllunio ar gyfer y dyfodol. Mae gennym gynllun hirdymor—cynllun ar y cyd—ar gyfer iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol ac edrychaf ymlaen at weld Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yn dal i fyny ac yn sicrhau bod ganddynt gynllun ar y cyd—

He should put his money where his mouth is.

Dylai roi ei arian ar ei air.

—to deliver health and care together.

—i ddarparu iechyd a gofal gyda'i gilydd.

Llefarydd UKIP, Neil Hamilton. 

UKIP spokesperson, Neil Hamilton. 

The Minister may recall that last October I raised with him the non-availability for patients of GPs in north Wales of the internet tool myhealthonline for making appointments. He kindly wrote to me subsequently saying that this wasn't a policy decision, but sometimes this system wasn't available because it was impossible to match patient need to GP availability in practice, in particular where there were large numbers of locums. The implication, of course, being that there are periods of time when it's not possible to access the service. Is he aware that there have been successful trials in London of this tool in GP practices, whereby administration has been cut and efficiencies have been improved? In one particular instance, GP waiting lists were cut from four weeks to just one day, and 25 per cent of 2,500 patients needed an appointment, so 75 per cent were able to be dealt with without taking up GPs' time in the surgery, with many other advantages as well, and GPs processed 30 online patient queries in the time it took otherwise to see 18 face to face. So, clearly this is an important and useful tool, where we're constantly facing the problem of matching needs to means. So, can the Minister assure me that he will pull out all the stops to ensure that this internet tool is available as often as it is needed, not just in north Wales but throughout the NHS in Wales?

Efallai y bydd y Gweinidog yn cofio, fis Hydref diwethaf, i mi godi'r ffaith nad oedd offeryn ar-lein Fy Iechyd Ar-lein ar gael i gleifion meddygon teulu yng ngogledd Cymru allu gwneud apwyntiadau. Yn garedig iawn, ysgrifennodd ataf wedyn i ddweud nad penderfyniad polisi oedd hwn, ond weithiau, nid oedd y system ar gael gan fod cyfateb anghenion cleifion i argaeledd meddygon teulu yn ymarferol amhosibl, yn enwedig lle'r oedd niferoedd uchel o staff locwm. Yr awgrym, wrth gwrs, oedd fod cyfnodau o amser pan nad oes modd cael mynediad at y gwasanaeth. A yw'n ymwybodol fod treialon llwyddiannus wedi eu cynnal yn Llundain o'r adnodd hwn mewn practisau meddygon teulu, gan arwain at leihau gwaith gweinyddol a gwella effeithlonrwydd? Mewn un achos penodol, cafodd rhestrau aros meddygon teulu eu torri o bedair wythnos i un diwrnod yn unig, ac roedd angen apwyntiad ar 25 y cant o'r 2,500 o gleifion, felly roedd modd ymdrin â 75 y cant heb ddefnyddio amser y meddygon teulu yn y feddygfa, gyda llawer o fanteision eraill hefyd, a llwyddodd meddygon teulu i brosesu 30 o ymholiadau cleifion ar-lein yn yr amser a fyddai wedi'i gymryd fel arall i weld 18 o gleifion wyneb yn wyneb. Felly, yn amlwg, mae hwn yn offeryn pwysig a defnyddiol, lle rydym yn wynebu'r broblem gyson o baru anghenion â modd. Felly, a all y Gweinidog roi sicrwydd imi y bydd yn gwneud popeth yn ei allu i sicrhau bod yr offeryn ar-lein hwn ar gael mor aml ag y bo'i angen, nid yn unig yng ngogledd Cymru ond ar gyfer pob rhan o'r GIG yng Nghymru?

14:45

I think that the challenge that you've set out is not how we simply continue to deliver what we have now, but what the future looks like and the necessary reform to get there, and not just in the area of making better use of technology. In the long-term plan for health and social care, you will see a significant section on making better use of technology and, in particular, digital technology.

That's partly about access, and the examples that you gave are about access, and I don't think it's just about one particular tool. A range of different computing tools, as it were, are available to try and enhance and make better use of staff time in doing so. It's also about then having the staff who are able to operate that system, and not just to operate the system as a digital technician but then to provide the clinical support to enable the system to work properly. So, there's more that we could and should do, and we expect to do, in local healthcare but also in hospital-based care about access, about diagnosis and treatment and making better use of technology that should ultimately mean that it's a better place for our staff to work as well as a better experience for patients when they do need healthcare themselves.

Credaf mai'r her rydych wedi'i nodi yw nid sut y gallwn barhau i gyflenwi'r hyn sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd, ond sut y mae'r dyfodol yn edrych a'r diwygio sy'n angenrheidiol er mwyn cyrraedd yno, ac nid yn unig ym maes gwneud gwell defnydd o dechnoleg. Yn y cynllun hirdymor ar gyfer iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, fe welwch adran sylweddol ar wneud gwell defnydd o dechnoleg, ac o dechnoleg ddigidol yn benodol.

Mae hynny'n ymwneud yn rhannol â mynediad, ac mae'r enghreifftiau a roesoch yn ymwneud â mynediad, ac ni chredaf fod hyn yn ymwneud ag un adnodd penodol yn unig. Mae amrywiaeth o wahanol adnoddau cyfrifiadurol, fel petai, ar gael i geisio gwella a gwneud gwell defnydd o amser staff wrth wneud hynny. Mae'n ymwneud hefyd â sicrhau bod gennym staff sy'n gallu gweithredu'r system honno, ac nid yn unig gweithredu'r system fel technegydd digidol, ond darparu'r cymorth clinigol wedyn i alluogi'r system i weithio'n iawn. Felly, mae mwy y gallem ac y dylem ei wneud, ac rydym yn disgwyl ei wneud, mewn gofal iechyd lleol ond hefyd ym maes gofal ysbytai mewn perthynas â mynediad, mewn perthynas â diagnosis a thriniaeth a gwneud gwell defnydd o dechnoleg, ac yn y pen draw, dylai hynny olygu ei fod yn lle gwell i'n staff weithio yn ogystal â bod yn well profiad i gleifion pan fo angen gofal iechyd arnynt.

I thank the Minister for that response, and, of course, he makes some very important and sensible points in response to my question. He'll be well aware of the problems that we had faced in Wales in the NHS Wales informatics systems, and the Public Accounts Committee published a report a very short time ago that says that we believe that NWIS is primarily focused on running outdated IT systems, and that at a time when the potential of digital healthcare is capturing the imagination and improving patient outcomes, just 10 per cent of NWIS's activities are focused on innovation. 

The clinical trials that I mentioned a moment ago in London were carried out by a medical software company called EMIS, but that has now lost its preferred vendor status as a result of a decision of NWIS here in Wales. So, here we've got, first of all, a damning report of NWIS's activities in recent years and the failure of their attempts to modernise the NHS computer system, and yet, on the other hand, they're taking away provider status from a company that has been successfully providing exactly the kind of services that we need. So, can the Minister tell me what he is doing to ensure that we don't get the kind of administrative crossing of wires that this kind of thing seems to have brought about in this instance?

Diolch i'r Gweinidog am ei ymateb, ac wrth gwrs, mae'n codi rhai pwyntiau synhwyrol a phwysig iawn mewn ymateb i fy nghwestiwn. Fe fydd yn ymwybodol iawn o'r problemau rydym wedi eu hwynebu yng Nghymru gyda systemau gwybodeg GIG Cymru, ac yn ddiweddar iawn, cyhoeddwyd adroddiad gan y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus a ddywedai ein bod yn credu bod Gwasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru yn canolbwyntio'n bennaf ar redeg systemau TG sydd wedi dyddio, ac ar adeg pan fo potensial gofal iechyd digidol yn tanio'r dychymyg ac yn gwella canlyniadau i gleifion, 10 y cant yn unig o weithgarwch Gwasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru sy'n canolbwyntio ar arloesi.

Cynhaliwyd y treialon clinigol a grybwyllais funud yn ôl yn Llundain gan gwmni meddalwedd feddygol o'r enw EMIS, ond maent hwy bellach wedi colli eu statws fel y darparwr a ffafrir o ganlyniad i benderfyniad gan Wasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru yma yng Nghymru. Felly yma, yn gyntaf oll, mae gennym adroddiad damniol o weithgareddau Gwasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf a methiant eu hymdrechion i foderneiddio system gyfrifiadurol y GIG, ac eto, ar y llaw arall, maent yn cael gwared ar statws darparwr cwmni sydd wedi llwyddo i ddarparu'r union fath o wasanaethau y mae arnom eu hangen. Felly, a all y Gweinidog ddweud wrthyf beth y mae'n ei wneud i sicrhau nad ydym yn gweld y math o gamddeall gweinyddol a achoswyd gan math hwn o beth, yn ôl pob golwg?

With respect, I think they are two different points. The first is about our system that we wish to have here within Wales and our strategic oversight, and about the level of resource that we could and should commit to maintaining our current systems. That is, in itself, a significant undertaking in addition to our ability and the resource that we put into reform and innovation. Of course, we'll respond to the PAC report and I expect that to be a regular topic of conversation now and in the future.

The point about EMIS is not so much that this is an example of people who have great innovative ideas who have been taken out of the system and that there is a disconnect, but actually what took place with EMIS and GP systems is that there was a tender exercise and they chose to submit a bid that did not comply with the basics of the tender. That decision not then to allow them to nevertheless carry on as a potential supplier was not simply made by the Government; it was actually supported by the general practice committee of the British Medical Association themselves. A representative group of doctors agreed that, given that EMIS had refused to comply with the tender, they should not therefore be rewarded in any event and be allowed to come back into the system. And unusually—because there were questions in the Chamber at the time from people from more than one party—since that time, there has not been a significant amount of complaint about it because we provided the support that we said would be made available, and broadly the GP community have accepted that we made the right choice in not allowing EMIS into the system when they'd refused to comply with the tender details.

Gyda phob parch, credaf eu bod yn ddau bwynt gwahanol. Mae'r cyntaf yn ymwneud â'r system yr hoffem ei chael yma yng Nghymru o dan ein goruchwyliaeth strategol ein hunain, ac ynghylch lefel yr adnoddau y gallem ac y dylem eu hymrwymo er mwyn cynnal ein systemau presennol. Mae hynny ynddo'i hun yn her sylweddol yn ogystal â'n gallu a'r adnoddau a roddwn tuag at ddiwygio ac arloesi. Wrth gwrs, byddwn yn ymateb i adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus ac rwy'n disgwyl y bydd hwnnw'n destun trafod rheolaidd ar hyn o bryd ac yn y dyfodol.

Nid yw'r pwynt ynglŷn ag EMIS yn ymwneud yn gymaint â'r ffaith bod hon yn enghraifft o bobl â syniadau arloesol gwych sydd wedi eu tynnu allan o'r system a bod diffyg cysylltiad yn bodoli, ond yn hytrach mai'r hyn a ddigwyddodd gydag EMIS a'r systemau meddygon teulu yw bod ymarfer tendro wedi'i gynnal, ac fe ddewisasant gyflwyno cais nad oedd yn cydymffurfio â gofynion sylfaenol y tendr. Nid oedd y penderfyniad hwnnw wedyn i beidio â chaniatáu iddynt barhau serch hynny i fod yn gyflenwr posibl yn benderfyniad a wnaed gan y Llywodraeth yn unig; mewn gwirionedd, fe'i cefnogwyd gan bwyllgor ymarfer cyffredinol Cymdeithas Feddygol Prydain eu hunain. Cytunodd grŵp cynrychioliadol o feddygon, o gofio bod EMIS wedi gwrthod cydymffurfio â'r tendr, na ddylent felly gael eu gwobrwyo mewn unrhyw fodd a'u caniatáu yn ôl i mewn i'r system. Ac yn anarferol—gan y cafwyd cwestiynau yn y Siambr ar y pryd gan bobl o fwy nag un blaid—ers hynny, nid oes cwynion sylweddol wedi'u gwneud ynglŷn â'r peth gan ein bod wedi darparu'r cymorth y dywedasom y byddai ar gael, ac yn gyffredinol, mae cymuned y meddygon teulu wedi derbyn ein bod wedi gwneud y dewis cywir wrth beidio â chaniatáu EMIS i mewn i'r system wedi iddynt wrthod cydymffurfio â manylion y tendr.

14:50

The chairman of the Royal College of General Practitioners, Dr Rebecca Payne, said at the time that she was very concerned about the potential impact of this on practices in north Wales, because 89 out of 118 practices were with EMIS. It's hard to see how we have the clinical staff in Wales to mitigate the potential problems that might arise. But going on from that to changing IT systems, obviously it has the potential to create all sorts of practical difficulties when it sometimes has to happen, of course, because existing systems become outdated or technology moves on. There are many people who think it will take three years before all patient records will have settled down on replacement systems, and patients need medical record integration between primary and acute settings, and current circumstances in north Wales are not producing this. So, can the Minister tell me what specific measures we're taking in north Wales to minimise both patient suffering and lost opportunity to deliver improved patient efficiency in this region?

Dywedodd cadeirydd Coleg Brenhinol yr Ymarferwyr Cyffredinol, Dr Rebecca Payne, ar y pryd ei bod yn bryderus iawn ynglŷn ag effaith bosibl hyn ar bractisau yng ngogledd Cymru, gan fod 89 o'r 118 practis gydag EMIS. Mae'n anodd gweld sut y mae gennym staff clinigol yng Nghymru i liniaru'r problemau posibl a allai godi. Ond gan symud ymlaen o hynny i newid systemau TG, mae'n amlwg y gallai hynny greu pob math o anawsterau ymarferol pan fo'n rhaid i hynny ddigwydd weithiau, wrth gwrs, gan fod systemau presennol yn dyddio neu'r dechnoleg yn datblygu. Mae llawer o bobl o'r farn y bydd yn cymryd tair blynedd cyn i'r holl gofnodion cleifion ddod i drefn ar systemau newydd, ac mae angen integreiddio cofnodion meddygol cleifion rhwng lleoliadau sylfaenol ac acíwt, ac nid yw'r amgylchiadau presennol yng ngogledd Cymru yn caniatáu hyn. Felly, a all y Gweinidog ddweud wrthyf pa gamau penodol rydych yn eu cymryd yng ngogledd Cymru i leihau dioddefaint cleifion a'r cyfleoedd sy'n cael eu colli i sicrhau gwell effeithlonrwydd ar gyfer cleifion yn y rhanbarth hwn?

I think the first point I'd make is that the now past chair of the Royal College of General Practitioners in Wales, Dr Payne, did raise concerns at the time, as did a number of other stakeholders, but, as I say, the representative body of general practitioners who are involved and engaged in actually assessing the responses to the tendering exercise agreed with and positively supported that choice. David Bailey is many things but he's certainly not a patsy for the Government, and he supported the choice that was made not to provide EMIS with an opportunity to try and be a supplier, having failed to deal with the tender.

On the broader point about people's access to records, it's not just within the health system; we've had a challenge of joining up records, say, within a pharmacy setting. That's what Choose Pharmacy is allowing us to do—so, a version of the GP record being available and to make entries into, but also doing more about making records available within that community pharmacy setting as well. But on access between the emergency ambulance service and between general practice, and indeed hospital practitioners as well, we've actually made real steps forward within the last few years here in Wales to do so. But there is always more to do, including the continued roll-out of the Welsh community care information system, which means that we can actually share information between health and social care.

Now, there are a range of parts of Wales where that has been rolled out and, in virtually every area where that's taken place, practitioners in health and social care recognise it's been an improvement. It means they spend less time on chasing information, and they believe that not only is their job better because it's less frustrating, but that they are providing better care for the citizen.

So, yes, there is more to do, and I accept there will be always other ideas about what we could do to improve, but this is not an area that is marginal. It is core business for health and care services, and I expect to answer more questions on this now and in the future.

Credaf mai'r pwynt cyntaf y buaswn yn ei wneud yw bod cyn-gadeirydd, bellach, Coleg Brenhinol yr Ymarferwyr Cyffredinol yng Nghymru, Dr Payne, wedi codi pryderon ar y pryd, fel y gwnaeth nifer o randdeiliaid eraill, ond fel y dywedaf, roedd corff cynrychioliadol y meddygon teulu sy'n ymwneud â'r gwaith o asesu'r ymatebion i'r ymarfer tendro yn cytuno â'r dewis hwnnw ac yn ei gefnogi. Mae David Bailey yn sawl peth, ond yn sicr, nid yw'n byped i'r Llywodraeth, ac fe gefnogodd y dewis a wnaed i beidio â rhoi cyfle i EMIS geisio bod yn gyflenwr, wedi iddynt fethu ymdrin â'r tendr.

O ran y pwynt ehangach ynglŷn â mynediad pobl at gofnodion, nid o fewn y system iechyd yn unig y mae hyn yn codi; rydym wedi wynebu her o ran cydgysylltu cofnodion, er enghraifft, o fewn lleoliad fferyllfa. Dyna mae Dewis Fferyllfa yn caniatáu inni ei wneud—felly, fersiwn o gofnod meddyg teulu i fod ar gael ac i allu ychwanegu ati, ond gwneud mwy mewn perthynas â sicrhau bod cofnodion ar gael o fewn lleoliad y fferyllfa gymunedol hefyd. Ond o ran mynediad rhwng y gwasanaeth ambiwlans brys a rhwng ymarfer cyffredinol, ac yn wir, ymarferwyr mewn ysbytai hefyd, rydym wedi gwneud cynnydd gwirioneddol dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf yma yng Nghymru tuag at wneud hynny. Ond mae mwy i'w wneud bob amser, gan gynnwys parhau i gyflwyno system wybodaeth gofal cymunedol Cymru, sy'n golygu y gallwn rannu gwybodaeth rhwng iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol.

Nawr, ceir sawl rhan o Gymru lle y mae hynny wedi'i gyflwyno, ac ym mhob ardal, bron â bod, lle y digwyddodd hynny, mae ymarferwyr ym maes iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn cydnabod ei fod wedi bod yn welliant. Mae'n golygu eu bod yn treulio llai o amser yn ceisio cael gafael ar wybodaeth, a chredant nid yn unig fod eu swydd yn well gan ei bod yn llai rhwystredig, ond eu bod yn darparu gwell gofal i'r dinesydd.

Felly, oes, mae mwy i'w wneud, ac rwy'n derbyn y bydd yna syniadau eraill bob amser ynglŷn â'r hyn y gallem ei wneud i wella, ond nid maes ymylol mohono. Mae'n waith craidd i wasanaethau iechyd a gofal, ac rwy'n disgwyl y byddaf yn ateb rhagor o gwestiynau ar hyn yn awr ac yn y dyfodol.

Perfformiad Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg
The Performance of Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University Local Health Board

3. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am berfformiad Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg? OAQ53131

3. Will the Minister make a statement on the performance of Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University Health Board? OAQ53131

Thank you for the question. Performance is improving across a number of key areas. Progress has been made in cancer waits, diagnostics and referral-to-treatment times. ABMU has received £8.3 million out of a performance fund that I created for this financial year. We expect to see further improvements by the end of March 2019.

Diolch am eich cwestiwn. Mae perfformiad yn gwella ar draws nifer o feysydd allweddol. Mae cynnydd wedi'i wneud o ran diagnosteg, amseroedd rhwng atgyfeirio a thriniaeth, ac amseroedd aros am driniaethau canser. Mae Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg wedi derbyn £8.3 miliwn o gronfa berfformiad a grëwyd gennyf ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol hon. Rydym yn disgwyl gweld gwelliannau pellach erbyn diwedd mis Mawrth 2019.

Minister, it's highly concerning for patients in south-west Wales that ABMU health board has been under the Welsh Government's targeted intervention status since September 2016. Concerns remain around specific elements of performance that are failing to be met, and people understandably want to see improvements. As the health board is now in the process of completing its organisational strategy, clinical services plan and the three-year integrated plan 2019-22, can you update the Chamber on recent discussions that your officials have had with ABMU health board and when you would expect to make a decision on the sign-off of the three-year integrated plan?

Weinidog, mae'n achos cryn bryder i gleifion yn ne-orllewin Cymru fod bwrdd iechyd Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg wedi bod yn destun ymyrraeth wedi’i thargedu Llywodraeth Cymru ers mis Medi 2016. Mae pryderon yn parhau ynghylch elfennau penodol o berfformiad nad ydynt yn cael eu bodloni, ac yn ddealladwy, mae pobl am weld gwelliannau. Gan fod y bwrdd iechyd wrthi'n cwblhau eu strategaeth sefydliadol, eu cynllun gwasanaethau clinigol a'u cynllun integredig tair blynedd ar gyfer 2019-22, a allwch roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Siambr ynglŷn â'r trafodaethau diweddar a gafodd eich swyddogion gyda bwrdd iechyd Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg, a phryd y byddech yn disgwyl gwneud penderfyniad ynglŷn â chymeradwyo'r cynllun integredig tair blynedd?

Well, the first point is that I'd need to see that integrated plan delivered and provided. There is a regular source of not just correspondence, but direct meetings between officials within the Government and the health board, and actually the improvement that I refer to is, I think, a positive in terms of the job that Tracy Myhill, the chief executive, and her team are doing with the board. There is real improvement and it's being sustained. The challenge will be whether they're able to give enough confidence—not just their plan on paper, but the confidence they will be able to deliver. That is part of the point. There are many people who write great-looking plans in very many aspects of life, but we need confidence they can actually deliver against that. They may be in a position to have an approved three-year integrated plan at the start of the next financial year. Even if they don't, I am confident that this health board will continue to make strides forward over the next year and I believe that you and other residents of the health board area can have greater confidence about the ability of the board to deliver against its plans and its financial means, but also, of course, delivering high-quality care for people across the region.

Wel, y pwynt cyntaf yw y byddai angen imi weld y cynllun integredig hwnnw'n cael ei gyflwyno a'i ddarparu. Ceir ffynhonnell reolaidd, nid yn unig o ohebiaeth, ond o gyfarfodydd uniongyrchol rhwng swyddogion o fewn y Llywodraeth a'r bwrdd iechyd, ac mewn gwirionedd, credaf fod y gwelliant y cyfeiriaf ato yn rhywbeth cadarnhaol o ran y gwaith y mae Tracy Myhill, y prif weithredwr, a'i thîm yn ei wneud gyda'r bwrdd. Mae yno welliant gwirioneddol, ac mae'n cael ei gynnal. Yr her fydd i ba raddau y gallant roi digon o hyder—nid yn unig eu cynllun ar bapur, ond yr hyder y byddant yn gallu ei ddarparu. Mae hynny'n rhan o'r pwynt. Ceir llawer o bobl sy'n ysgrifennu cynlluniau sy'n edrych yn wych mewn sawl agwedd ar fywyd, ond mae arnom angen hyder y gallant gyflawni yn erbyn hynny. Gallant fod mewn sefyllfa i gael cynllun integredig tair blynedd wedi'i gymeradwyo erbyn dechrau'r flwyddyn ariannol nesaf. Hyd yn oed os nad ydynt yn llwyddo i wneud hynny, rwy'n hyderus y bydd y bwrdd iechyd hwn yn parhau i wneud cynnydd dros y flwyddyn nesaf, a chredaf y gallwch chi a thrigolion eraill ardal y bwrdd iechyd fod â mwy o hyder ynghylch gallu'r bwrdd i gyflawni yn erbyn ei gynlluniau a'i fodd ariannol, ond hefyd, wrth gwrs, i ddarparu gofal o ansawdd uchel i bobl ledled y rhanbarth.

14:55

Could I turn to the performance of ABMU in respect of one of their prime assets, which is Maesteg Community Hospital? There's a plaque in the hospital with my name on it; it celebrated its hundredth anniversary only a few years ago. I intend, with the sustenance of our national health service and breakthroughs and innovation in health, to be there when it celebrates its second hundredth year as well. I'm going to be as old as Job.

But, can I say, there was a massive, packed-out meeting on 14 November in Maesteg town hall. It was very well attended, very passionate, and eloquent speeches were made by local people in the consultation on the closure of the Maesteg Community Hospital day unit. Now, alongside that closure of that day unit and the proposal to transfer it to Bridgend Princess of Wales, there is also enhancement of services being proposed, including a doppler service, a leg unit, alongside the wound clinic and other services that are there now, and including the step-down ward that they currently have, with beds in the ward there.

Now, what I'm seeking from ABMU, but also as it transferres to Cwm Taf, imminently, is that the long-term future of Maesteg Community Hospital is guaranteed. It is an essential part of the 'A Healthier Wales' approach in terms of services closer to the community. I will shortly be meeting with the chair of Cwm Taf to make sure that this isn't the case, but could I ask the Minister, please, in your meetings both with ABMU chair and chief executive and with Cwm Taf chair and chief executive to make that same point: that no matter the reconfiguration, the services here should be enhanced in line with 'A Healthier Wales', and the future of Maesteg Community Hospital should be written in stone outside, if not next to the plaque with my name on it?

A gaf fi droi at berfformiad Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg mewn perthynas ag un o'u prif asedau, sef Ysbyty Cymunedol Maesteg? Mae plac yn yr ysbyty gyda fy enw arno; fe ddathlodd ei ganmlwyddiant ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl. Gyda chynhaliaeth ein gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol a datblygiadau allweddol ac arloesedd ym maes iechyd, rwy'n bwriadu bod yno pan fydd yn dathlu ei ddeucanmlwyddiant hefyd. Rwy'n mynd i fod mor hen â Job.

Ond a gaf fi ddweud, cafwyd cyfarfod enfawr a gorlawn ar 14 Tachwedd yn neuadd y dref ym Maesteg. Roedd llawer iawn o bobl yn bresennol, a chafwyd areithiau angerddol a huawdl iawn gan bobl leol yn yr ymgynghoriad ar gau uned ddydd Ysbyty Cymunedol Maesteg. Nawr, ochr yn ochr â chau'r uned ddydd honno a'r cynnig i'w throsglwyddo i Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr, mae cynnig hefyd i wella gwasanaethau, gan gynnwys gwasanaeth doppler, uned y goes, ochr yn ochr â'r clinig clwyfau a gwasanaethau eraill sydd yno eisoes, gan gynnwys y ward cam-i-lawr sydd ganddynt ar hyn o bryd, gyda gwelyau yn y ward yno.

Nawr, yr hyn yr hoffwn ei gael gan Brifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg, ond hefyd wrth iddo drosglwyddo i Gwm Taf cyn bo hir, yw gwarant ynglŷn â dyfodol hirdymor Ysbyty Cymunedol Maesteg. Mae'n rhan hanfodol o ymagwedd 'Cymru Iachach' o ran sicrhau bod gwasanaethau'n agosach at y gymuned. Byddaf yn cyfarfod cyn bo hir â chadeirydd Cwm Taf i sicrhau nad yw hyn yn wir, ond a gaf fi ofyn i'r Gweinidog i wneud yr un pwynt, os gwelwch yn dda, yn eich cyfarfodydd gyda chadeirydd a phrif weithredwr Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg a chadeirydd a phrif weithredwr Cwm Taf: er gwaethaf yr ad-drefnu, y dylid gwella'r gwasanaethau yma yn unol â 'Cymru Iachach', a dylid naddu dyfodol Ysbyty Cymunedol Maesteg ar garreg y tu allan, os nad ger y plac gyda fy enw arno?

Well, I applaud the Member's ambition to be around for the second centenary. I'm not sure I'd make such a pledge or ambitious statement myself.

I recognise the points the Member makes and about services that are changing, which is, obviously, a cause for concern for the local population as services move, and at the same time seeing, on the other hand, services move into that setting as well. But that is part of the challenge we've set out in 'A Healthier Wales'—how we move around some services to be more concentrated in fewer settings, and at the same time to have more services then going out into community settings to be delivered more closely to home.  So, I think there's nothing inconsistent with what you've set out.

I don't think that the boundary change should have any difference in terms of the longer term future of the hospital, and I would be happy to make sure that, when I do meet Cwm Taf health board, as I'm sure to in the near future, I raise the fact that you've got those concerns and you'll be wanting an answer direct from the health board too.

Wel, rwy'n cymeradwyo uchelgais yr Aelod i fod o gwmpas ar gyfer y deucanmlwyddiant. Nid wyf yn siŵr y buaswn yn gwneud addewid neu ddatganiad mor uchelgeisiol fy hun.

Rwy'n cydnabod y pwyntiau y mae'r Aelod yn eu gwneud ac ynglŷn â gwasanaethau sy'n newid, sy'n amlwg yn achos pryder i'r boblogaeth leol wrth i wasanaethau symud, ac ar yr un pryd, maent yn gweld gwasanaethau, ar y llaw arall, yn symud i'r lleoliad hwnnw hefyd. Ond dyna ran o'r her rydym wedi'i nodi yn 'Cymru Iachach'—sut rydym yn symud rhai gwasanaethau o gwmpas er mwyn eu crynhoi mewn llai o leoliadau, a sicrhau ar yr un pryd, fod mwy o wasanaethau'n symud i leoliadau cymunedol er mwyn eu darparu yn agosach at adref. Felly, ni chredaf fod unrhyw beth yn anghyson o ran yr hyn rydych wedi'i nodi.

Ni chredaf y dylai newid y ffin wneud unrhyw wahaniaeth o ran dyfodol mwy hirdymor yr ysbyty, ac rwy'n fwy na pharod i sicrhau, pan fyddaf yn cyfarfod â bwrdd iechyd Cwm Taf, fel rwy'n siŵr o wneud yn y dyfodol agos, fy mod yn codi'r ffaith bod gennych y pryderon hynny ac y byddwch yn disgwyl ateb uniongyrchol gan y bwrdd iechyd hefyd.

Y Targed Amser Aros o Bedair Awr ar Gyfer Gofal Brys
The Four-hour Emergency Waiting Time Target

4. Pryd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n disgwyl i ysbytai gyrraedd y targed amser aros o bedair awr ar gyfer gofal brys? OAQ53134

4. When does the Welsh Government expect hospitals to meet the four-hour emergency waiting time target? OAQ53134

I expect local health boards to plan effectively to deliver safe, timely and high-quality health and care services to meet the needs of the communities that they serve.

Rwy'n disgwyl i fyrddau iechyd lleol gynllunio'n effeithiol i ddarparu gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal diogel, amserol ac o safon uchel i ddiwallu anghenion y cymunedau y maent yn eu gwasanaethu.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. You'll be aware that, in north Wales, there are particular problems in each of the three main district general hospitals, all of which have been failing to meet the emergency waiting time targets for some time, including at the hospital that serves my constituents, which is Glan Clwyd Hospital in Bodelwyddan.

The situation appears to have been deteriorating and, in November, the figures were much worse than they were three years ago, in November 2015. This, of course, is a health board that is in special measures. Your responsibility is to improve the outcomes for patients as a result of your intervention in that health board, and yet the situation is getting worse. Can you explain to my residents and those in other places in north Wales why, in a health board that is currently in special measures, the situation is getting worse in terms of performance and not getting better? 

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Fe fyddwch yn gwybod bod problemau arbennig yng ngogledd Cymru, yn y tri phrif ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth, gyda phob un ohonynt wedi methu cyrraedd y targed amser aros ar gyfer gofal brys ers peth amser, gan gynnwys yr ysbyty sy'n gwasanaethu fy etholwyr, sef Ysbyty Glan Clwyd ym Modelwyddan.

Ymddengys bod y sefyllfa wedi bod yn gwaethygu, ac ym mis Tachwedd, roedd y ffigurau'n waeth o lawer nag yr oeddent dair blynedd yn ôl, ym mis Tachwedd 2015. Mae hwn, wrth gwrs, yn fwrdd iechyd sy'n destun mesurau arbennig. Eich cyfrifoldeb chi yw gwella'r canlyniadau ar gyfer cleifion o ganlyniad i'ch ymyrraeth yn y bwrdd iechyd hwnnw, ac eto, mae'r sefyllfa'n gwaethygu. A allwch egluro i fy nhrigolion a'r rheini mewn mannau eraill yng ngogledd Cymru pam, mewn bwrdd iechyd sy'n destun mesurau arbennig ar hyn o bryd, fod y sefyllfa'n gwaethygu o ran perfformiad yn hytrach na gwella?

I have real concerns about the four-hour figures from each of the three centres in north Wales, but I've never tried to hide from those concerns. They're absolutely part of the conversations I've had with the new chair about the need to see improvement. They have got a 90-day improvement plan, but the point that I have made is, 'It's fine to have a plan, but you obviously need to be able to deliver on it and to deliver improvement, and to take the staff with you'. The worst thing that we could do would be simply to say, 'People need to try and work harder' and that's it. Actually, there are changes about how the services are organised, about getting people to the right place within our heath and care system, and having the right capacity within the system as well. It's instructed to me that there's something here about supporting good clinical leadership, because if you look across north Wales, then, at present, the area, certainly in the recent past, that has had the greatest physical challenges is Ysbyty Gwynedd. Yet, actually, often, their performance is better than the other two sites.

So, it isn't simply about the physical settings, but sometimes the physical setting does matter. It is about having the right clinicians in the right place and about leadership and actually about persuading members of the public to try and use different points in the system at the right point in time. But I expect that you and other Members from every party will continue to not just question me but to ask again—once we've had a 90-day plan, I expect to come back and have questions about that and what difference it has made. I do think the national arrangements we put in place with the national clinical lead, with Jo Mower, have been helpful, because, of course, she has the credibility of still being a serving clinician in an emergency department. So, I'm cautiously optimistic that we'll see improvement, if not in the busy time of winter, because that really is a hostage to fortune, but I expect over the next year that your constituents and others can have a better experience with shorter waits within emergency departments. But this is a longer term challenge and not something I'll be able to resolve with a click of my fingers, as much as I would like to be able to do so. 

Mae gennyf bryderon gwirioneddol ynghylch y ffigurau pedair awr ym mhob un o'r tair canolfan yng ngogledd Cymru, ond nid wyf erioed wedi ceisio cuddio rhag y pryderon hynny. Maent yn bendant yn rhan o'r trafodaethau rwyf wedi eu cael gyda'r cadeirydd newydd ynglŷn â'r angen i weld gwelliant. Mae ganddynt gynllun gwella 90 diwrnod, ond y pwynt rwyf wedi'i wneud yw, 'Mae'n iawn cael cynllun, ond yn amlwg, dylech allu ei gyflawni a sicrhau gwelliant, a mynd â'r staff gyda chi'. Y peth gwaethaf y gallem ei wneud fyddai dweud, 'Mae angen i bobl geisio gweithio'n galetach' a dyna ni. Mewn gwirionedd, mae yna newidiadau o ran sut y trefnir y gwasanaethau, sut i sicrhau bod pobl yn mynd i'r lle iawn yn ein system iechyd a gofal, a sut i sicrhau bod capasiti digonol ar gael yn y system hefyd. Dywedir wrthyf fod rhywbeth yma ynghylch cefnogi arweinyddiaeth glinigol dda, oherwydd os edrychwch ar draws gogledd Cymru, ar hyn o bryd, yr ardal sydd wedi wynebu'r heriau ffisegol mwyaf, yn sicr yn y gorffennol diweddar, yw Ysbyty Gwynedd. Serch hynny, mae eu perfformiad yn well na'r ddau safle arall yn aml.

Felly, nid yw'n ymwneud â'r lleoliadau ffisegol yn unig, ond weithiau, mae'r lleoliad ffisegol yn ffactor. Mae'n ymwneud â sicrhau bod y clinigwyr cywir yn y lleoedd cywir, ag arweinyddiaeth, ac â pherswadio aelodau o'r cyhoedd i geisio defnyddio pwyntiau gwahanol yn y system ar yr adeg iawn. Ond rwy'n disgwyl y byddwch chi ac Aelodau eraill o bob plaid nid yn unig yn parhau i fy holi ond yn gofyn eto—pan fyddwn wedi cael cynllun 90 diwrnod, rwy'n disgwyl dod yn ôl yma i ateb cwestiynau ynglŷn â hynny a pha wahaniaeth y mae wedi'i wneud. Credaf fod y trefniadau cenedlaethol a roesom ar waith gyda'r arweinydd clinigol cenedlaethol, Jo Mower, wedi bod yn ddefnyddiol, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, mae'n ennyn hyder am ei bod yn dal i fod yn glinigydd gweithredol mewn adran achosion brys. Felly, rwy'n ochelgar obeithiol y byddwn yn gweld gwelliant, os nad dros gyfnod prysur y gaeaf, gan fod y cyfnod hwnnw yn ddibynnol iawn ar ffawd, ond rwy'n disgwyl dros y flwyddyn nesaf y gall eich etholwyr ac eraill gael gwell profiad gydag amseroedd aros byrrach mewn adrannau argyfwng. Ond mae hon yn her fwy hirdymor ac nid yw'n rhywbeth y gallaf ei ddatrys drwy glicio fy mysedd, er cymaint y carwn allu gwneud hynny.

15:00

Minister, I'll look at the two aspects of the four hours—that's the beginning and the end of the four-hour period. At the beginning, clearly, we can ask people to choose better with the prudent health approach and look at using different facilities such as minor injuries units across south Wales, and particularly in my area the fantastic services at Neath Port Talbot Hospital. I want to encourage more people to take up that opportunity. But also, at the other side of the four hours is the transfer of patients into hospitals. Last year, ABMU held a consultation on bed closures. It was a skewed—in my opinion—consultation, because the questions being asked were more towards the answers they wanted. But in future consultations, will you ensure that health boards have to put the question as to how it impacts upon accident and emergency services, because the removal of beds means fewer opportunities for patients to be transferred from the A&E into a bed in the hospital?

Weinidog, rwyf am edrych ar ddwy agwedd ar y pedair awr—sef dechrau a diwedd y cyfnod o bedair awr. Ar y dechrau, yn amlwg, gallwn ofyn i bobl ddewis yn well gyda'r dull iechyd darbodus ac edrych ar ddefnyddio cyfleusterau gwahanol megis unedau mân anafiadau ar draws de Cymru, ac yn enwedig y gwasanaethau gwych yn Ysbyty Castell-nedd Port Talbot yn fy ardal i. Rwyf am annog mwy o bobl i fanteisio ar y cyfle hwnnw. Ond hefyd, ar yr ochr arall i'r pedair awr, mae'r gwaith o drosglwyddo cleifion i ysbytai. Y llynedd, cynhaliodd Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg ymgynghoriad ar gau gwelyau. Roedd yn ymgynghoriad â gogwydd iddo—yn fy marn i—oherwydd roedd y cwestiynau a gafodd eu gofyn yn tueddu mwy tuag at yr atebion roeddent eu heisiau. Ond mewn ymgynghoriadau yn y dyfodol, a wnewch chi sicrhau bod yn rhaid i fyrddau iechyd ofyn cwestiwn ynglŷn â sut y mae'n effeithio ar wasanaethau damweiniau ac achosion brys, oherwydd mae cael gwared ar welyau yn golygu llai o gyfleoedd i drosglwyddo cleifion o'r adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys i wely yn yr ysbyty?

There are two broad points that I'd make in response to the Member. The first is that I completely agree with him—I think that's the best use of the whole system. Neath Port Talbot Hospital is a good example of a minor injuries unit where people sometimes underestimate the range of services that are available. There's often easier transport than going to either the Princess of Wales or indeed to Morriston, and there is often a much shorter wait as well. Actually, making available publicly some of the tracker times about how fast you're likely to be seen has been helpful in diverting people to those areas. There's also, of course, the job of the ambulance service to work together with the health board and make sure they take people to the appropriate setting. 

On your second point about beds across the system, there is a challenge here, and I know you've set out both in private and in this place your view on the previous exercise undertaken by the health board, but it's actually about capacity across the whole system. Because what's been really interesting for me in meeting with lots of emergency department clinicians is they do have a view on capacity within the hospital system, but they actually have a view about flow within the hospital part of the system and in and out of the hospital setting itself as well. I think it's really important to set out not just what happens with a number of the beds within one part of our health and care system, but actually to be sure that it's a joint plan between health and social care about how capacity is going to be met. Because often the right place to treat someone is not in a hospital bed—it's often somewhere else, but you need to plan for that and not simply talk about it. When reducing capacity in one part, if you haven't then also planned to increase and improve capacity in another part of our wider health and care system—. That is a conversation I've had this morning with a range of local authority members. 

Mae dau bwynt cyffredinol yr hoffwn eu gwneud mewn ymateb i'r Aelod. Y cyntaf yw fy mod yn cytuno'n llwyr ag ef—credaf mai dyna yw'r defnydd gorau o'r system gyfan. Mae ysbyty Castell-nedd Port Talbot yn enghraifft dda o uned mân anafiadau lle y mae pobl weithiau'n tanbrisio'r ystod o wasanaethau sydd ar gael. Mae'n aml yn haws teithio yno na theithio i Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru neu, yn wir, i Dreforys, ac mae'r amser aros yn aml yn llawer byrrach hefyd. Mewn gwirionedd, mae cyhoeddi rhai o'r amseroedd aros sy'n dangos pa mor gyflym rydych yn debygol o gael eich gweld wedi helpu i gyfeirio pobl i'r mannau hynny. Yn ogystal â hynny, wrth gwrs, mae gwaith y gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn gweithio gyda'r bwrdd iechyd i sicrhau eu bod yn mynd â phobl i'r lleoliad priodol.

Ar eich ail bwynt ynglŷn â gwelyau ar draws y system, mae yna her yma, a gwn eich bod wedi nodi eich barn, yn breifat ac yn y lle hwn, ar yr ymarfer blaenorol a gynhaliwyd gan y bwrdd iechyd, ond mae'n ymwneud â chapasiti ar draws y system gyfan mewn gwirionedd. Oherwydd yr hyn sydd wedi bod yn ddiddorol iawn i mi, wrth gyfarfod â llawer o glinigwyr adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys, yw'r ffaith bod ganddynt farn ar gapasiti o fewn system yr ysbyty, a barn hefyd mewn gwirionedd ar lif cleifion o fewn rhan yr ysbyty o'r system ac i mewn ac allan o leoliad yr ysbyty ei hun hefyd. Credaf ei bod yn wirioneddol bwysig nodi nid yn unig yr hyn sy'n digwydd gyda nifer o'r gwelyau mewn un rhan o'n system iechyd a gofal, ond i sicrhau hefyd ei fod yn gynllun ar y cyd rhwng iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol o ran sut i ddiwallu capasiti. Oherwydd, yn aml, nid gwely ysbyty yw'r man cywir ar gyfer trin claf—dylent gael eu trin yn rhywle arall yn aml, ond mae angen i chi gynllunio ar gyfer hynny yn hytrach na siarad am y peth yn unig. Wrth leihau capasiti mewn un rhan, os nad ydych wedi cynllunio hefyd i gynyddu a gwella capasiti mewn rhan arall o'n system iechyd a gofal ehangach—. Mae honno'n sgwrs a gefais y bore yma gydag amryw o aelodau awdurdodau lleol.

Gwella Gwasanaethau Iechyd yn Sir Benfro
Improving Health Services in Pembrokeshire

5. Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i wella gwasanaethau iechyd yn Sir Benfro? OAQ53115

5. What is the Welsh Government doing to improve health services in Pembrokeshire? OAQ53115

Thank you for the question. We have a wide range of improvement activity that we expect the people of Pembrokeshire to benefit from. In addition to service-specific improvements, we expect Pembrokeshire to benefit from the transformation fund and our long-term plan for health and social care, 'A Healthier Wales'.

Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn. Mae gennym amrywiaeth eang o weithgarwch gwella rydym yn disgwyl i bobl Sir Benfro elwa ohono. Yn ogystal â gwelliannau i wasanaethau penodol, rydym yn disgwyl i Sir Benfro elwa o'r gronfa drawsnewid a'n cynllun hirdymor ar gyfer iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, 'Cymru Iachach'.

Minister, one way of improving health services in Pembrokeshire, and indeed throughout Wales, is to support my autism Bill next week and allow it to go forward to Stage 2 of the legislative process. I appreciate that the Government is bringing forward a code of practice but my proposed Bill is not in competition with some of the measures that the Government have introduced or are introducing. It looks to build on some of that good work. In the circumstances, will you therefore consider working with me to ensure that the Bill can go forward next week for further scrutiny? Because I genuinely believe that passing this legislation will improve health services for many people in my constituency, and, indeed, for thousands of people across the whole of Wales. 

Weinidog, un ffordd o wella gwasanaethau iechyd yn Sir Benfro, ac yn wir ledled Cymru, yw cefnogi fy Mil awtistiaeth yr wythnos nesaf a chaniatáu iddo symud ymlaen i gam 2 o'r broses ddeddfwriaethol. Rwy'n derbyn bod y Llywodraeth yn cyflwyno cod ymarfer, ond nid yw fy Mil arfaethedig yn cystadlu â rhai o'r mesurau y mae'r Llywodraeth wedi'u cyflwyno neu'n bwriadu eu cyflwyno. Mae'n bwriadu adeiladu ar rywfaint o'r gwaith da hwnnw. O dan yr amgylchiadau hynny, a wnewch chi ystyried gweithio gyda mi i sicrhau y gall y Bil symud ymlaen yr wythnos nesaf i'w graffu ymhellach? Oherwydd rwy'n credu'n ddiffuant y bydd pasio'r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn gwella gwasanaethau iechyd i lawer o bobl yn fy etholaeth i, ac yn wir i filoedd o bobl ledled Cymru gyfan.

I recognise that the Member does genuinely wish to improve services for autistic people, and more than that to improve people's lived experience—there's no dispute between us on that. The challenge is whether or not the Bill that you propose will actually deliver that—that's not an area that we agree on. We'll have plenty of time to talk about that next week, and, indeed, to consider the reports of a variety of committees that have considered that and the views of a range of stakeholders.

So, I'll happily leave that conversation until next week, when we will have it in detail. Of course, you're aware that we've met several times during the passage of the Bill to date to discuss these matters. I'm sure that, should the Bill proceed, we'll continue to talk.

Rwy'n cydnabod bod yr Aelod o ddifrif yn dymuno gwella gwasanaethau ar gyfer pobl awtistig, ac yn fwy na hynny, yn dymuno gwella profiad bywyd pobl—nid oes unrhyw anghytundeb rhyngom ar hynny. Yr her yw i ba raddau y bydd y Bil rydych yn ei gynnig yn cyflawni hynny—nid ydym yn cytuno ar hynny. Bydd gennym ddigon o amser i sôn am hynny yr wythnos nesaf, ac yn wir, i ystyried adroddiadau gan amryw o bwyllgorau sydd wedi ystyried hynny a barn ystod o randdeiliaid.

Felly, rwy'n hapus i adael y sgwrs honno tan yr wythnos nesaf, pan fyddwn yn trafod y mater yn fanwl. Wrth gwrs, rydych yn gwybod ein bod wedi cyfarfod sawl gwaith yn ystod hynt y Bil hyd yn hyn i drafod y materion hyn. Os bydd y Bil yn symud ymlaen, rwy'n siŵr y byddwn yn parhau i siarad.

15:05
Atal HIV
HIV Prevention

6. A wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru ddarparu'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y camau y mae'n eu cymryd mewn perthynas ag atal HIV? OAQ53146

6. Will the Welsh Government provide an update on the action it is taking in relation to HIV prevention? OAQ53146

Thank you for the question. A number of projects are under way to improve access to testing, including the provision of self-sampling HIV tests and a pilot for online testing. Pre-exposure prophylaxis is providing protection for those with lifestyle risks. These measures, supported by effective medical care, mean we are continually reducing the risk of HIV infection.

Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn. Mae nifer o brosiectau ar y gweill i wella mynediad at brofion, gan gynnwys darparu profion hunan-samplu HIV a chynllun peilot ar gyfer profi ar-lein. Mae proffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad yn darparu amddiffyniad i'r rheini sy'n wynebu risgiau'n gysylltiedig â'u ffordd o fyw. Mae'r mesurau hyn, wedi’u cefnogi gan ofal meddygol effeithiol, yn golygu ein bod yn parhau i leihau'r risg o heintiad HIV.

Thank you, Minister. I've been closely following the encouraging response to the introduction of PrEP last July. I'm really impressed by the large numbers already benefiting from this preventative treatment. The introduction of a national approach to PrEP and HIV prevention that is being taken here in Wales by the Welsh Labour Government shows a clear commitment to these issues. What plans are in place to build on any early findings? Would you be able to provide an update on further results when these become available in due course?

Diolch i chi, Weinidog. Rwyf wedi bod yn dilyn yr ymateb calonogol i gyflwyno'r proffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad fis Gorffennaf diwethaf yn agos iawn. Mae'r nifer fawr sydd eisoes yn elwa o'r driniaeth ataliol hon wedi gwneud argraff fawr arnaf mewn gwirionedd. Mae gwaith Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru ar gyflwyno dull cenedlaethol i atal HIV a darparu proffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad yng Nghymru yn dangos ymrwymiad clir i'r materion hyn. Pa gynlluniau sydd ar waith i adeiladu ar unrhyw ganfyddiadau cynnar? A fyddech yn gallu rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ar ganlyniadau pellach pan ddaw'r rhain ar gael maes o law?

Yes, I'm very pleased and proud of the national approach that we've chosen to take here in Wales—a genuinely national approach based on clinical need being the criteria for access to PrEP. That's in contrast to the approach taken in both Northern Ireland and England, where there isn't a national approach and, of course, the Terrence Higgins Trust and others are fundraising to be able to make the funds available for people to actually be able to use PrEP. That isn't a challenge we have here. 

We now have, from the end of September, 697 people in Wales who've been prescribed PrEP, and 386 are currently taking the preventative treatment. There have been no new cases of HIV within that group of people, and that is a real success story for all of us.

We do, though, recognise that about one in four people who are potentially eligible for PrEP don't come back for follow-up and don't actually take it up. So, part of our challenge, in research that is ongoing, is both to properly understand the impact of providing PrEP and to make sure that we continue to see that reduction in HIV, but also to try to understand why some people don't access PrEP when it is potentially available.

There is a range of research, including funding that we provided to Cardiff University—£400,000 of funding—to carry out research into the behaviours of those who choose to take PrEP, because we do recognise that there is a high incidence of sexually transmitted infections being acquired by people who are taking PrEP, so it's actually getting to the right sort of cohort of people.

I will, of course, though, in terms of your final point, happily update this place when we do have the results of either further incidents of the numbers of use, but, in particular, the research trials that we are already supporting.

Ie, rwy'n falch iawn o'r dull cenedlaethol rydym wedi dewis ei fabwysiadu yma yng Nghymru—dull gwirioneddol genedlaethol sy'n seiliedig ar sicrhau mai angen clinigol yw'r maen prawf ar gyfer mynediad at broffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad. Mae hynny'n gwrthgyferbynnu â'r dull a fabwysiadwyd yng Ngogledd Iwerddon a Lloegr, lle nad oes dull cenedlaethol o weithredu ac wrth gwrs, mae Ymddiriedolaeth Terrence Higgins ac eraill yn codi arian i sicrhau bod arian ar gael i bobl ddefnyddio proffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad. Nid yw honno'n her sy'n ein hwynebu ni yma.

Ers diwedd mis Medi, mae proffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad wedi'i bresgripsiynu ar gyfer 697 o bobl yng Nghymru, ac mae 386 yn cael triniaeth ataliol. Nid oes unrhyw achosion newydd o HIV wedi bod o fewn y grŵp hwnnw o bobl, ac mae hynny'n arwydd go iawn o lwyddiant i bob un ohonom.

Er hynny, rydym yn cydnabod nad yw oddeutu un o bob pedwar o bobl a allai fod yn gymwys ar gyfer proffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad yn dod yn ôl am apwyntiad dilynol nac yn manteisio arno. Felly, rhan o'r her sy'n ein hwynebu, mewn gwaith ymchwil sy'n mynd rhagddo, yw deall yn iawn beth yw effaith darparu proffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad a sicrhau ein bod yn parhau i weld y gostyngiad o ran HIV, a cheisio deall hefyd pam nad yw rhai pobl yn manteisio ar broffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad pan allai fod ar gael.

Ceir llawer o ymchwil, gan gynnwys cyllid a ddarparwyd gennym i Brifysgol Caerdydd—£400,000 o gyllid—i gyflawni ymchwil i ymddygiad y rhai sy'n dewis manteisio ar broffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad, oherwydd rydym yn cydnabod bod nifer uchel o achosion o heintiau a drosglwyddir yn rhywiol ymhlith pobl sy'n manteisio ar broffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad, felly mae'n ymwneud â chyrraedd y garfan iawn o bobl mewn gwirionedd.

Ond o ran eich pwynt olaf, wrth gwrs, byddaf yn hapus i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r lle hwn pan fydd gennym ganlyniadau o ran y niferoedd pellach sy'n dewis manteisio arno, ac yn benodol, canlyniadau'r treialon ymchwil rydym eisoes yn eu cefnogi.

Ysbyty Athrofaol y Grange
Grange University Hospital

7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y gwaith o adeiladu a chynllunio ar gyfer Ysbyty Athrofaol y Grange? OAQ53138

7. Will the Minister provide an update on the construction and planning of the Grange University Hospital? OAQ53138

I am happy to confirm that construction on the Grange hospital site commenced on 30 October 2017. It is on schedule and on budget, and due to open in the spring of 2021.

Rwy'n falch o gadarnhau bod y gwaith adeiladu ar safle ysbyty'r Grange wedi cychwyn ar 30 Hydref 2017. Mae'r gwaith ar amser ac o fewn y gyllideb, a disgwylir y bydd yn agor yn ystod gwanwyn 2021.

What proportion of the staff at the hospital would the Minister expect to want to live in Cwmbran and the locality of the hospital? Does he consider that sufficient housing is being built locally to satisfy that demand?

Pa gyfran o staff yr ysbyty y mae'r Gweinidog yn ei ragweld fydd eisiau byw yng Nghwmbrân ac yn nghyffiniau'r ysbyty? A yw'n ystyried bod digon o dai yn cael eu hadeiladu'n lleol i fodloni'r galw hwnnw?

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) i’r Gadair.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

I couldn't forecast for him the level of demand that may come from people who have yet to make choices about where they do or don't wish to live. Of course, the overwhelming majority of staff who will work at the Grange are already within NHS Wales now. A number of people travel to work over relatively significant distances in addition to those who choose to live within a much shorter period of time of wherever their main site of employment is.

I do expect that conversation to continue with the local authority about housing need, to make sure that they have plans in place to make sure they meet that need in the future. But I think we can look forward to a very positive future for the Grange and the economic impact it will have on the local area, indeed both in the constituency of your colleague Nick Ramsay, and, of course, the constituency of my colleague the Member for Torfaen.

Ni allaf ragweld lefel y galw gan bobl nad ydynt eto wedi penderfynu lle y maent eisiau byw neu lle nad ydynt eisiau byw. Wrth gwrs, mae'r mwyafrif llethol o staff a fydd yn gweithio yn y Grange eisoes yn gweithio o fewn GIG Cymru. Mae yna nifer o bobl sy'n teithio pellteroedd cymharol sylweddol i'r gwaith, yn ogystal â'r rheini sy'n dewis byw o fewn amser teithio cryn dipyn yn llai i brif safle eu gwaith.

Rwy'n disgwyl y bydd y sgwrs honno am yr angen am dai yn parhau gyda'r awdurdod lleol, i wneud yn siŵr fod ganddynt gynlluniau ar waith i sicrhau eu bod yn bodloni'r angen hwnnw yn y dyfodol. Ond credaf y gallwn edrych ymlaen at ddyfodol cadarnhaol iawn i'r Grange a'r effaith economaidd y bydd yn ei chael ar yr ardal leol, yn etholaeth eich cyd-Aelod, Nick Ramsay, yn wir, ac wrth gwrs, etholaeth fy nghyd-Aelod, yr Aelod dros Dorfaen.

Gwasanaethau Fasgiwlaidd yn Ysbyty Gwynedd
Vascular Services in Ysbyty Gwynedd

8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am wasanaethau fasgiwlaidd yn Ysbyty Gwynedd? OAQ53125

8. Will the Minister make a statement on vascular services in Ysbyty Gwynedd? OAQ53125

Thank you for the question. Betsi Cadwaladr university health board has approved plans to create a specialist vascular unit for north Wales at Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. There are no plans to close any vascular departments. The health board will continue to treat patients with non-complex needs at all three north Wales hospitals, including Ysbyty Gwynedd.

Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn. Mae bwrdd iechyd prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr wedi cymeradwyo cynlluniau i greu uned fasgwlaidd arbenigol ar gyfer gogledd Cymru yn Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. Nid oes unrhyw gynlluniau i gau unrhyw adrannau fasgwlaidd. Bydd y bwrdd iechyd yn parhau i drin cleifion ag anghenion nad ydynt yn gymhleth ym mhob un o'r tair ysbyty yng ngogledd Cymru, gan gynnwys Ysbyty Gwynedd.

15:10

Mae'r cynlluniau sydd rŵan o'n blaenau ni yn tanseilio gwaith rhagorol yn Ysbyty Gwynedd. Yr wythnos yma, rydw i ac Aelodau etholedig eraill Plaid Cymru yn y gogledd-orllewin wedi galw am asesiad llawn gan Lywodraeth Cymru o effaith, o impact, penderfyniad bwrdd iechyd prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr i ganoli gwasanaethau fasgiwlar yn Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. Fis yn ôl, mi wnaeth y bwrdd fynd yn ôl ar eu gair a thorri addewid i warchod rhai gwasanaethau yn Ysbyty Gwynedd. Mi oedd yna sicrwydd wedi ei roi y byddai'r gwasanaethau llawdriniaeth fasgiwlar yn cael eu cynnal ac, yn hollbwysig, y byddai'r gallu i dderbyn mynediadau brys fasgiwlar yn Ysbyty Gwynedd yn parhau. Nid dyna ydy'r achos erbyn hyn. Yr ofn, yn amlwg, ydy y bydd hyn yn cael effaith andwyol ar gleifion yn y gogledd-orllewin a fydd yn wynebu taith, rai ohonyn nhw, o awr a hanner am fynediad brys am lawdriniaeth sy'n cael ei darparu yn rhagorol yn Ysbyty Gwynedd ar hyn o bryd. A wnewch chi ymrwymo i gynnal yr astudiaeth impact yna? Mae o'r peth lleiaf mae cleifion yn ei haeddu. 

The proposals before us now undermine the excellent work done in Ysbyty Gwynedd. This week, I and other elected Plaid Cymru Members in north-west Wales have asked for a full assessment from the Welsh Government of the impact of the decision taken by the the Betsi Cadwaladr university health board to centralise vascular services at Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. A month ago, the board went back on its word and broke a pledge to safeguard certain services at Ysbyty Gwynedd. Assurances had been given that vascular surgery services would be maintained and, crucially, the ability to take emergency cases in Ysbyty Gwynedd would continue. That won’t be the case now. The fear, clearly, is that this will have a detrimental impact on patients in the north-west, who will face a journey, some of them, of an hour and a half for emergency access to treatment that is being provided excellently at Ysbyty Gwynedd. Now, will you commit, therefore, to carry out that impact assessment study? It’s the least that patients deserve.

With respect, I don't share the view that he provides about the service change that is being planned for, and I would point out that this is a planned service change that is supported by the relevant professional body, the Royal College of Surgeons, including by the council here in Wales. And not only that, though, but because of the changes that are being made, the health board has been successful in recruiting new consultant vascular surgeons. They've offered posts to nine consultant vascular surgeons and, of those, four have now commenced employment and two commence in April 2019. That will give a complement of eight substantive consultant surgeons across the health board—a significant improvement. And of all those people who have started or are due to start in the health board, the planned service change has been a real factor in them choosing to undertake employment within the health board. Far from this undermining the service available to patients in every part of north Wales, this service change and the additional recruitment that has taken place on the back of service change is actually a positive for staff and patients.    

Gyda phob parch, nid wyf yn rhannu'r farn y mae'n ei rhoi am y cynlluniau i newid y gwasanaeth, a hoffwn nodi bod y corff proffesiynol perthnasol, Coleg Brenhinol y Llawfeddygon, yn ogystal â'r cyngor yma yng Nghymru, yn cefnogi'r cynlluniau hyn i newid y gwasanaeth. Yn ogystal â hynny, oherwydd y newidiadau sy'n cael eu gwneud, mae'r bwrdd iechyd wedi llwyddo i recriwtio llawfeddygon fasgwlaidd ymgynghorol newydd. Maent wedi cynnig swyddi i naw llawfeddyg fasgwlaidd ac o'r rheini, mae pedwar bellach wedi dechrau ar eu swyddi ac mae dau arall yn dechrau ym mis Ebrill 2019. Bydd hynny'n sicrhau cyflenwad o wyth llawfeddyg ymgynghorol parhaol ar draws y bwrdd iechyd—gwelliant sylweddol. Ac o'r holl bobl sydd wedi dechrau neu sydd ar fin dechrau yn y bwrdd iechyd, mae'r cynlluniau i newid y gwasanaeth wedi bod yn ffactor gwirioneddol yn eu penderfyniad i dderbyn swydd yn y bwrdd iechyd. Mae hyn yn bell o fod yn tanseilio'r gwasanaeth sydd ar gael i gleifion ym mhob rhan o ogledd Cymru, ac mae'r newid i'r gwasanaeth a'r recriwtio ychwanegol sydd wedi digwydd yn ei sgil yn rhywbeth cadarnhaol i staff a chleifion. 

3. Cwestiynau Amserol
3. Topical Questions

Item 3 on our agenda this afternoon is topical questions, and the topical question this afternoon comes from Dawn Bowden. 

Eitem 3 ar ein hagenda y prynhawn yma yw'r cwestiynau amserol, a daw'r cwestiwn amserol y prynhawn yma gan Dawn Bowden.

Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Cwm Taf
Cwm Taf Local Health Board

1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi sicrwydd i ddefnyddwyr gwasanaethau ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Cwm Taf ynglŷn â diben y monitro uwch a gyhoeddwyd heddiw? 253

1. Will the Minister provide the users of services in Cwm Taf University Health Board with reassurance as to the purpose of the enhanced monitoring announced today? 253

Thank you for the question. The purpose of the enhanced monitoring is to provide additional support to the health board to enable them to focus on appropriate actions and to return to normal monitoring arrangements as quickly as possible.  

Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn. Diben y monitro uwch yw darparu cymorth ychwanegol i'r bwrdd iechyd i'w galluogi i ganolbwyntio ar gamau gweithredu priodol ac i ddychwelyd at drefniadau monitro arferol cyn gynted â phosibl.

Thank you for that response, Minister. As your statement acknowledges, since the escalation framework was introduced in 2014, the health board has always been in routine arrangements. And as well as their good financial track record, we've seen many good clinical and care initiatives delivered by the health board. So, while I was aware of the situation surrounding maternity services that we discussed in the Chamber a few weeks ago, I was surprised to see your statement this morning raising their status from routine arrangements to enhanced monitoring, due to the concerns in the areas that you've highlighted in your statement. However, I do think it's the needs of the users of the service in Cwm Taf that must be paramount at this point. So, can you assure me that the reasons for this escalation to enhanced monitoring are being clearly communicated so that users are provided with the extra reassurance that they need about local services? And can you give an indication of timescale for the resolution of the issues identified? 

Diolch i chi am yr ymateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Fel y mae eich datganiad yn ei gydnabod, mae'r bwrdd iechyd wedi dilyn trefniadau arferol ers cyflwyno'r fframwaith uwchgyfeirio yn 2014. Ac yn ogystal â'u hanes ariannol da, rydym wedi gweld llawer o fentrau clinigol a mentrau gofal da yn cael eu darparu gan y bwrdd iechyd. Felly, er fy mod yn ymwybodol o'r sefyllfa mewn perthynas â gwasanaethau mamolaeth a drafodwyd gennym yn y Siambr ychydig wythnosau'n ôl, cefais fy synnu wrth weld eich datganiad y bore yma yn codi eu statws o drefniadau arferol i fonitro uwch, oherwydd y pryderon yn y meysydd rydych wedi tynnu sylw atynt yn eich datganiad. Fodd bynnag, credaf fod yn rhaid i anghenion defnyddwyr y gwasanaeth yng Nghwm Taf fod o'r pwys mwyaf ar y pwynt hwn. Felly, a allwch fy sicrhau bod y rhesymau dros yr uwchraddio i fonitro uwch yn cael eu cyfleu'n glir fel bod defnyddwyr yn cael y sicrwydd ychwanegol y maent ei angen ynglŷn â gwasanaethau lleol? A allwch roi syniad i ni o'r amserlen ar gyfer datrys y materion a nodwyd?

Yes, and the health board should not be surprised by today's decision. There's been regular communication between the chief executive of NHS Wales and the chief exec of the health board. And since the issues were raised about maternity services, I've spoken on several occasions to the chair of the health board. And the additional matters that were raised by regulators in the audit office are ones that I do not think would have been appropriate to ignore. So, you reach a point where you either choose to do something or choose to avoid doing something, and I think it is the right thing to have made this decision, and to be clear about the limited and specific areas that are of concern. But those concerns do not mean that this is a health board that provides poor-quality health and care to its citizens—far from it. We know from not just patient satisfaction but a range of measures that this is a health board that is performing well in terms of its delivery against time measures, but also against financial performance as well, and there is regular positive patient feedback. I expect, having made the statement today, that the health board will communicate directly to its staff and to its public, but also the timescale for this should be viewed as within periods of months rather than years. There are specific issues that I expect the health board to have a clear action plan to address, with timescales that they can be properly measured and assessed by. Again, the point about reassurance for yourself and the constituents that you serve is that this isn't simply a matter of political convenience made by a Minister for a Minister. There'll be the reassurance that will be those—. The review arrangements by the chief executive of NHS Wales, Wales Audit Office and Healthcare Inspectorate Wales will provide me with advice on whether it's appropriate to change the escalation status to return to normal monitoring, but that is what I expect the health board to plan for and to deliver within a period of months. 

Ie, ac ni ddylai'r penderfyniad heddiw fod yn syndod i'r bwrdd iechyd. Mae cyfathrebu rheolaidd wedi bod rhwng prif weithredwr GIG Cymru a phrif weithredwr y bwrdd iechyd. Ac rwyf wedi siarad â chadeirydd y bwrdd iechyd sawl gwaith ers i'r materion ynghylch gwasanaethau mamolaeth gael eu codi. Ac nid wyf yn credu y byddai wedi bod yn briodol anwybyddu'r materion ychwanegol a godwyd gan reolyddion yn y swyddfa archwilio. Felly, rydych yn cyrraedd pwynt lle rydych naill ai'n dewis gwneud rhywbeth neu'n dewis osgoi gwneud rhywbeth, ac rwy'n credu mai'r penderfyniad hwn oedd y peth cywir i'w wneud, a bod yn glir am y meysydd cyfyngedig a phenodol sy'n peri pryder. Ond nid yw'r pryderon hynny'n golygu bod y bwrdd iechyd hwn yn darparu iechyd a gofal gwael i'w ddinasyddion—ddim o gwbl. O arolygon boddhad cleifion ac amrywiaeth o fesurau eraill, gwyddom fod y bwrdd iechyd hwn yn perfformio'n dda o ran ei gyflawniad yn erbyn mesurau amser, yn ogystal â'i berfformiad ariannol, a cheir adborth cadarnhaol rheolaidd gan gleifion. Ar ôl gwneud y datganiad heddiw, rwy'n disgwyl y bydd y bwrdd iechyd yn cyfathrebu'n uniongyrchol â'i staff a'r cyhoedd, ond hefyd dylid ystyried yr amserlen ar gyfer hyn o fewn misoedd yn hytrach na blynyddoedd. Rwy'n disgwyl i'r bwrdd iechyd gael cynllun i fynd i'r afael â phroblemau penodol, gydag amserlenni y gellir eu defnyddio i fesur ac asesu yn briodol. Unwaith eto, y pwynt ynglŷn â sicrwydd i chi'ch hun a'r etholwyr a wasanaethwch yw nad mater syml o hwylustod gwleidyddol a wneir gan Weinidog ar gyfer Gweinidog yw hwn. Bydd sicrwydd—. Bydd y trefniadau adolygu gan brif weithredwr GIG Cymru, Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru ac Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru yn rhoi cyngor i mi ynglŷn ag a yw'n briodol newid y statws uwchgyfeirio a dychwelyd i fonitro arferol, ond rwy'n disgwyl i'r bwrdd iechyd gynllunio ar gyfer hynny, a'i gyflawni o fewn cyfnod o fisoedd.

15:15

Minister, I'm grateful for the statement that you issued this morning. To the normal reader looking at this it would clearly indicate that this decision was taken out of the normal cycle of evaluation. I think I'm correct in saying that, but if you could confirm that I'd be grateful, because it would look to me as if a special meeting had been called in December for this measure to be taken today or announced today.

We must remember that 300,000 people depend on this health board for their healthcare and many thousands of staff depend on the health board as their place of employment and the service and professional development that they want to exercise in delivering excellent quality of care. But the list that you've identified in your statement this morning does cause great concern. Because, as the Member for Merthyr indicated, initially, obviously, this statement—. The Minister provided a statement on maternity services, now we have a list seven-strong, from staffing levels to delivery of Health Inspectorate Wales reports. This is a concerning time—that this isn't some sort of vortex that the health board is going into and ultimately more problems will be identified. Are you confident that the list that you've identified in your statement is a comprehensive list of the issues that this health board needs to address, and are you confident that the support that you identify in your statement in relation to governance arrangements and the support that you will be offering the board will rectify the problems and the health board will emerge out of this enhanced level of monitoring? Because to date I don't think a health board has emerged out of enhanced levels of monitoring here in Wales. As the health spokesman for the Conservatives identified, five of the seven health boards are in special measures at the moment here in Wales. 

Weinidog, rwy'n ddiolchgar am y datganiad a gyhoeddasoch y bore yma. I'r darllenydd arferol sy'n edrych ar hyn, byddai'n dynodi'n glir fod y penderfyniad hwn wedi cael ei wneud y tu allan i'r cylch gwerthuso arferol. Credaf fy mod yn gywir yn dweud hynny, ond buaswn yn ddiolchgar os gallwch gadarnhau hynny, oherwydd mae'n ymddangos i mi fod cyfarfod arbennig wedi ei alw ym mis Rhagfyr i sicrhau bod y mesur hwn yn cael ei gyflwyno heddiw neu ei gyhoeddi heddiw.

Mae'n rhaid i ni gofio bod 300,000 o bobl yn dibynnu ar y gofal iechyd y mae'r bwrdd iechyd hwn yn ei ddarparu, ac mae miloedd lawer o staff yn dibynnu arno fel eu man gwaith a'r gwasanaeth a'r datblygiad proffesiynol y maent eisiau ei arfer wrth ddarparu gofal o ansawdd rhagorol. Ond mae'r rhestr rydych wedi'i nodi yn eich datganiad y bore yma yn achosi pryder mawr. Oherwydd, fel y mae'r Aelod dros Ferthyr wedi'i nodi, i ddechrau, yn amlwg, yn y datganiad hwn—. Rhoddodd y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar wasanaethau mamolaeth, a bellach mae gennym restr saith pwynt, o lefelau staffio i ddarparu adroddiadau Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru. Mae hwn yn gyfnod sy'n peri pryder—nad yw hwn yn rhyw fath o drobwll y bydd y bwrdd iechyd yn mynd i mewn iddo a mwy o broblemau'n cael eu nodi yn y pen draw. A ydych yn hyderus fod y rhestr rydych wedi'i nodi yn eich datganiad yn rhestr gynhwysfawr o'r materion y mae angen i'r bwrdd iechyd fynd i'r afael â hwy, ac a ydych yn hyderus fod y cymorth rydych yn ei nodi yn eich datganiad mewn perthynas â threfniadau llywodraethu a'r cymorth y byddwch yn ei gynnig i'r bwrdd yn unioni'r problemau ac y bydd y bwrdd iechyd yn dod allan o'r lefel uwch o fonitro? Oherwydd, hyd yn hyn, nid wyf yn credu bod unrhyw fwrdd iechyd wedi dod allan o statws monitro uwch yma yng Nghymru. Fel y nododd llefarydd iechyd y Ceidwadwyr, mae pump o'r saith bwrdd iechyd yn destun mesurau arbennig yma yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd.

First, to do with your point about—. Every health board has challenges to face in almost every single area of activity. We regularly discuss the rising demand, the changing nature of that demand, and, of course, those are challenges for a health board in the services that it provides. I don't think any person of any party political persuasion would be able to define an exhaustive list of challenges for the health board. What I have done is provide a clear list of the issues that have led to my decision to change the monitoring status of the health board. I expect these issues to be addressed and, if they are, then I would expect there to be advice that would mean that the escalation status of the health board could return to normal monitoring. 

This was a meeting outside of the usual cycle, and, again, that is a choice. We can either choose to say, 'Let's park the issue until the normal cycle takes place in a number of months', or we could say, 'There's a list of issues in front of us now and so a meeting should take place now to assess what the appropriate course of action is', and I do believe that was the right choice to make. There should be that reassurance for staff and the public that this is a specific list of issues to address. I do not expect there to be any kind of suggestion there is a list of issues that will see the health board return further and higher up the list of escalation status. I expect them, as a high-performing board, to take seriously the statement that has been made today and I expect them to respond appropriately and have a clear plan that they will adhere to to actually return to normal monitoring, as I've said, in a period of months. 

Yn gyntaf, yn ymwneud â'ch pwynt am—. Mae gan bob bwrdd iechyd heriau i'w hwynebu ym mron pob maes gweithgaredd. Rydym yn trafod y galw cynyddol yn rheolaidd, a'r newid yn natur y galw hwnnw, ac wrth gwrs, mae'r rheini'n heriau i fwrdd iechyd yn y gwasanaethau y mae'n eu darparu. Nid wyf yn credu y byddai unrhyw berson o unrhyw duedd wleidyddol yn gallu diffinio rhestr gynhwysfawr o'r heriau sy'n wynebu'r bwrdd iechyd. Yr hyn a wneuthum yw darparu rhestr glir o'r materion sydd wedi arwain at fy mhenderfyniad i newid statws monitro'r bwrdd iechyd. Rwy'n disgwyl i'r problemau hyn gael eu datrys ac os cânt eu datrys, buaswn yn disgwyl mai'r cyngor fyddai y gallai statws uwchgyfeirio'r bwrdd iechyd ddychwelyd i fonitro arferol. 

Roedd hwn yn gyfarfod y tu allan i'r cylch arferol, ac unwaith eto, mae hwnnw'n ddewis. Gallwn naill ai ddewis dweud, 'Gadewch i ni ohirio'r mater hyd nes y bydd y cylch arferol yn digwydd mewn nifer o fisoedd', neu gallwn ddweud, 'Mae rhestr o broblemau ger ein bron yn awr ac felly dylid cynnal cyfarfod yn awr i asesu beth yw'r camau gweithredu priodol', ac rwy'n credu mai hwnnw oedd y dewis cywir i'w wneud. Dylid rhoi sicrwydd i staff a'r cyhoedd mai rhestr benodol o bethau i'w datrys yw hon. Nid wyf yn disgwyl fod unrhyw awgrym fod yna restr o broblemau a fydd yn achosi i'r bwrdd iechyd symud yn uwch i fyny'r rhestr o ran statws uwchgyfeirio. Fel bwrdd sy'n perfformio ar lefel uchel, rwy'n disgwyl iddynt fod o ddifrif ynglŷn â'r datganiad a wnaethpwyd heddiw ac rwy'n disgwyl iddynt ymateb yn briodol a llunio cynllun clir y byddant yn glynu wrtho er mwyn dychwelyd i fonitro arferol, fel rwyf wedi'i ddweud, o fewn cyfnod o fisoedd.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement today. Of course, the priority for this intervention is to ensure that the board and its staff are supported and that my constituents and other constituents can have the utmost confidence in their local health services.

Your statement highlights six areas of focus and I think this is important, as other Members have said—that it reinforces that this enhanced monitoring is only in certain areas of provision and not across the piece. How can we make sure that local people in communities like Cynon Valley, who may only be aware of the headline news, know that this does not refer to the overall quality of services? And how can we get that reassurance to people, using the NHS in Cwm Taf, and, of course, the hard-working staff who are employed there?

I welcome the comments by the chief executive of Cwm Taf that the health board is determined to work with the Welsh Government so that routine measures can be returned to as soon as possible, and I welcome your assurances on how long you expect that process to take, but could you provide any further details on the type of monitoring that will take place in the interim?

Referring back to your statement from October last year on maternity services in Cwm Taf, then you said you'd asked your officials to seek reassurance from all health boards in regard to incident reporting and escalation arrangements. In your statement today, one of the areas of focus is the quality of serious incident reporting. What initial findings have your officials found about the quality of incident reporting more generally across the Welsh NHS?

My final question relates to governance arrangements. In your statement, you note the need to provide external support in light of the relatively recent tenure of board members, and I think that's really important. I'm concerned that this type of support is only coming now after board members are already in post and concerns have been identified, so how can the Welsh Government in future best work with newly appointed board members before they take up their roles to ensure that they're all well placed to fulfil their obligations?

Diolch i chi am eich datganiad heddiw, Weinidog. Wrth gwrs, blaenoriaeth yr ymyrraeth hon yw sicrhau bod y bwrdd a'i staff yn cael eu cefnogi a bod gan fy etholwyr ac etholwyr eraill bob ffydd yn eu gwasanaethau iechyd lleol.

Mae eich datganiad yn tynnu sylw at chwe maes ffocws a chredaf ei bod yn bwysig, fel y mae Aelodau eraill wedi'i ddweud, ei fod yn cadarnhau nad yw'r monitro uwch hwn ond yn weithredol mewn rhai meysydd darpariaeth ac nad yw'n rhywbeth cyffredinol. Sut y gallwn sicrhau bod pobl leol mewn cymunedau megis Cwm Cynon, nad ydynt ond yn ymwybodol o'r penawdau newyddion, o bosibl, yn gwybod nad yw'n cyfeirio at ansawdd cyffredinol gwasanaethau? A sut y gallwn roi'r sicrwydd hwnnw i bobl sy'n defnyddio'r GIG yng Nghwm Taf, a'r staff gweithgar a gyflogir yno wrth gwrs?

Rwy'n croesawu'r sylwadau gan brif weithredwr Cwm Taf fod y bwrdd iechyd yn benderfynol o weithio gyda Llywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau y gellir dychwelyd i fesurau arferol cyn gynted â phosibl, ac rwy'n croesawu'r sicrwydd rydych wedi'i roi ynglŷn â faint o amser rydych yn disgwyl i'r broses honno gymryd, ond a allwch chi ddarparu unrhyw fanylion pellach ar y math o fonitro a fydd yn digwydd yn y cyfamser?

Gan gyfeirio'n ôl at y datganiad a wnaethoch ym mis Hydref y llynedd ar wasanaethau mamolaeth yng Nghwm Taf, dywedasoch eich bod wedi gofyn i'ch swyddogion geisio sicrwydd gan bob bwrdd iechyd mewn perthynas â threfniadau rhoi gwybod am ddigwyddiadau a threfniadau uwchgyfeirio. Yn eich datganiad heddiw, un o'r meysydd ffocws yw ansawdd trefniadau rhoi gwybod am ddigwyddiadau difrifol. Beth yw canfyddiadau cychwynnol eich swyddogion mewn perthynas ag ansawdd trefniadau rhoi gwybod am ddigwyddiadau yn fwy cyffredinol ar draws y GIG yng Nghymru?

Mae fy nghwestiwn olaf yn ymwneud â threfniadau llywodraethu. Yn eich datganiad, rydych yn nodi'r angen i ddarparu cymorth allanol o ystyried mai yn gymharol ddiweddar y penodwyd rhai o'r aelodau i'r bwrdd, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n wirioneddol bwysig. Rwy'n bryderus mai dim ond yn awr y mae'r math hwn o gymorth ar gael, pan fo aelodau'r bwrdd eisoes yn eu lle a phryderon wedi cael eu nodi, felly sut y gall Llywodraeth Cymru weithio gydag aelodau newydd a benodir i'r bwrdd yn y dyfodol cyn iddynt ymgymryd â'u swyddogaethau er mwyn sicrhau eu bod yn y sefyllfa orau i gyflawni eu rhwymedigaethau?

15:20

Thank you. I'm happy to reconfirm and to reiterate that this statement does not affect the overall quality of services, and it should not lead to a loss of public trust and confidence in the overall quality of services provided by Cwm Taf university health board. I hope that making that as a very clear statement will be helpful, and I'm sure the health board will be reiterating that to both its staff and the population that it serves. I'm pleased that you have contact yourself directly with the health board. I think it would be sensible for the health board to directly contact stakeholders like constituency and regional Members to confirm the steps that they are taking directly to reiterate the points about the seriousness with which they take it but also the steps that they are taking.

There is, of course, regular contact with my officials and the health board itself. I expect that to be more regular now following the decision that I've made and announced today, and, of course, I'll continue to speak with the chair as well. I'll make sure there is a regular conversation between me and the chair, not just about the plan but actually about how far ahead we are in doing it to make sure there is appropriate oversight.

The point you made about the quality of serious incident reports—this is something that is regularly discussed during the regular escalation conversations that take place. There is a range of areas that both the Wales Audit Office and the inspectorate actually raise, and this is a regular feature of it. So, there is the challenge about making sure that both the serious incidents are reported and reported in good time and that the quality of the information that is shared is appropriate as well. This should not be a difficult issue to resolve, and for me it's really important—it's about that culture of openness and not wanting to try and downplay the seriousness of it, because it's the nature of that open reporting and that appropriate learning takes place from them.

On your broader point about board development, I think it's a fair point about how we constantly review the board development measures that are in place as people take up their posts and then whilst they're new in post as well to make sure that they continue to have support to undertake their conduct effectively. And, certainly, following this, I'll be interested in looking again, not just in Cwm Taf, but across the broader system, to make sure that we're getting that right.

Diolch. Rwy'n hapus i ail-gadarnhau ac ailadrodd nad yw'r datganiad hwn yn effeithio ar ansawdd cyffredinol gwasanaethau, ac ni ddylai arwain at golli ffydd a hyder ymhlith y cyhoedd yn ansawdd cyffredinol y gwasanaethau a ddarperir gan fwrdd iechyd prifysgol Cwm Taf. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd datgan hynny'n glir o fudd, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd y bwrdd iechyd yn ailadrodd hynny i'w staff ac i'r cyhoedd a wasanaethir ganddo. Rwy'n falch eich bod mewn cysylltiad uniongyrchol â'r bwrdd iechyd eich hun. Credaf y byddai'n synhwyrol i'r bwrdd iechyd gysylltu'n uniongyrchol â rhanddeiliaid fel Aelodau etholaethol a rhanbarthol i gadarnhau'r camau y maent yn eu cymryd ar unwaith i ailadrodd y pwyntiau ynglŷn â difrifoldeb y mater iddynt hwy yn ogystal â'r camau y maent yn eu cymryd. 

Wrth gwrs, rwyf mewn cysylltiad rheolaidd â fy swyddogion a'r bwrdd iechyd ei hun. Rwy'n disgwyl y bydd y cysylltiad hwnnw'n fwy rheolaidd yn awr yn dilyn y penderfyniad a wneuthum ac a gyhoeddais heddiw, ac wrth gwrs, byddaf yn parhau i siarad â'r cadeirydd yn ogystal. Byddaf yn sicrhau bod sgwrs reolaidd rhyngof â'r cadeirydd, nid yn unig am y cynllun ond am ein cynnydd er mwyn sicrhau bod goruchwyliaeth briodol. 

O ran y pwynt a wnaethoch am ansawdd trefniadau rhoi gwybod am ddigwyddiadau difrifol—mae  hwn yn fater a drafodir yn rheolaidd yn ystod y sgyrsiau uwchgyfeirio rheolaidd sy'n digwydd. Mae Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru a'r arolygiaeth yn codi ystod o feysydd mewn gwirionedd, ac mae hon yn nodwedd reolaidd. Felly, mae yna her o ran gwneud yn siŵr fod digwyddiadau difrifol yn cael eu hadrodd mewn da bryd a bod ansawdd yr wybodaeth a rennir yn briodol hefyd. Ni ddylai hwn fod yn fater anodd i'w ddatrys, ac i mi mae'n wirioneddol bwysig—mae'n ymwneud â'r diwylliant o fod yn agored, heb geisio bychanu difrifoldeb y mater, oherwydd mae natur yr adrodd agored a'r dysgu priodol yn digwydd o ganlyniad i'r diwylliant hwnnw.

O ran eich pwynt ehangach ynglŷn â datblygiad y bwrdd, credaf ei fod yn bwynt teg ynglŷn â sut rydym yn mynd ati'n gyson i adolygu mesurau datblygu'r bwrdd sydd ar waith wrth i bobl gychwyn ar eu swyddi a thra'u bod yn newydd i'r swydd hefyd er mwyn gwneud yn siŵr eu bod yn parhau i gael cymorth i gyflawni eu gwaith yn effeithiol. Ac yn sicr, yn dilyn hyn, bydd gennyf ddiddordeb mewn edrych eto, nid yn unig yng Nghwm Taf, ond ar draws y system ehangach, i sicrhau ein bod yn gwneud hynny'n iawn.

Many of my constituents, particularly to the east of Ogmore in Llanharan and Gilfach Goch and elsewhere, will be served by Cwm Taf health authority, both in primary care and secondary care and acute pathways as well, and it is worth reiterating that, up until now, of course, Cwm Taf have indeed been a high-performing board and organisation right across the piste with much to praise, so this is a bit of a knock-back, but there is much good in the performance of this organisation, regardless of this. But I note that, beyond the maternity services, which we knew of already, of the other points, we are talking about issues of compliance, actions not having been taken, reporting not having been up to spec, response to actions to Healthcare Inspectorate Wales inspection reports and actions not completed, compliance with the nurse staffing Act. It seems to me that these are things that can be done, can be achieved, in fairly short order if they get their act together, but the one that concerns me is the one in the middle of the list in your statement today, which is concerns in respect of quality governance arrangements. Now, I just wonder what does the Minister think in terms of whether the health board have got a real tight grip on needing to respond rapidly to these actions across the piste and bring it back into a health board that, across the piste, is once again high performing and takes itself out of the escalation measures today. Do they appreciate the seriousness of the Minister and the seriousness of the message that he's put in front of them—that there is no complacency, no resting on past performance; they need to get a grip and get out of this escalation?

And my second question is whether this has any implications for the issue of the transfer of the Bridgend area of ABMU across to Cwm Taf. I'm sure it doesn't, and this is a high-performing organisation across many areas, but I think many of my constituents, not simply in the Llanharan, Gilfach Goch area, but in the wider Maesteg, Garw, Ogmore valley areas, Sarn and elsewhere, who up until now have been served by ABMU, who are in the middle of that transition now across to Cwm Taf, will want to hear reassurance from the Minister that they should not have any worries based on what we've heard today.

Bydd llawer o fy etholwyr, yn enwedig i'r dwyrain o Ogwr yn Llanharan a'r Gilfach Goch ac mewn mannau eraill, yn cael eu gwasanaethu gan awdurdod iechyd Cwm Taf, mewn perthynas â gofal sylfaenol a gofal eilaidd a llwybrau acíwt yn ogystal, ac mae'n werth ailadrodd fod Cwm Taf, hyd yn hyn, wrth gwrs, wedi bod yn fwrdd ac yn sefydliad sydd wedi perfformio'n dda yn gyffredinol, gyda llawer i'w ganmol, felly mae hon yn dipyn o ergyd, ond mae llawer sy'n dda ym mherfformiad y sefydliad hwn er hynny. Ond y tu hwnt i'r gwasanaethau mamolaeth, ac roeddem yn gwybod amdanynt hwy eisoes, nodaf ein bod yn sôn am broblemau o ran cydymffurfiaeth, camau gweithredu na chafodd eu rhoi ar waith, trefniadau adrodd annigonol, ymateb i gamau gweithredu yn adroddiadau arolygu Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru, a methiant i gwblhau camau gweithredu, cydymffurfiaeth â'r Ddeddf lefelau staff nyrsio. Mae'n ymddangos i mi fod y rhain yn bethau y gellir eu gwneud, y gellir eu cyflawni, mewn amser cymharol fyr os gallant gael trefn ar bethau, ond yr un sy'n peri pryder i mi yw'r un yng nghanol y rhestr yn eich datganiad heddiw, sef pryderon mewn perthynas â threfniadau llywodraethu o ansawdd. Nawr, rwy'n meddwl tybed beth y mae'r Gweinidog yn ei feddwl o ran pa mor gadarn yw gafael y bwrdd iechyd ar yr angen i ymateb yn gyflym i'r camau gweithredu hyn yn gyffredinol a dod â hwnnw'n ôl i fwrdd iechyd sydd, unwaith eto, yn perfformio'n dda yn gyffredinol, i allu dychwelyd at fonitro arferol heddiw. A ydynt yn sylweddoli pa mor ddifrifol yw hyn i'r Gweinidog a difrifoldeb y neges y mae wedi'i chyflwyno—nad oes unrhyw hunanfodlonrwydd i fod, na gorffwys ar berfformiad y gorffennol; mae angen iddynt gael trefn ar bethau fel y gallant ddychwelyd i fonitro arferol?

Fy ail gwestiwn yw, a oes gan hyn unrhyw oblygiadau o ran trosglwyddo ardal Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr o Brifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg i Gwm Taf. Rwy'n siŵr nad oes unrhyw oblygiadau yn hynny o beth, ac mae hwn yn sefydliad sy'n perfformio'n dda ar draws llawer o ardaloedd, ond credaf y bydd llawer o fy etholwyr, nid yn unig yn ardal Llanharan a'r Gilfach Goch, ond ardal ehangach Maesteg, Cwm Garw, Cwm Ogwr, Sarn a mannau eraill, sydd wedi cael eu gwasanaethu gan Brifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg hyd yn hyn, ac sydd yng nghanol y broses o gael eu trosglwyddo i Gwm Taf ar hyn o bryd, eisiau sicrwydd gan y Gweinidog nad oes angen iddynt boeni ar sail yr hyn rydym wedi'i glywed heddiw.

15:25

I'm happy to give reassurance and confirmation on your second point simply at the outset. This won't affect the timetable for boundary change. I believe it would be entirely the wrong thing to do to try and pause or interrupt that now. That boundary change is due to take place from the start of April, and this should not affect the health board's ability to deal with the list of areas. The external review of maternity services has already been commissioned; they will need to respond to that. And the areas, as you rightly highlight, of additional concern that are in my statement, many of them are about compliance, about making sure that things are done properly and in an appropriate timescale.

The challenge about in respect of the quality of governance arrangements, that is partly a question for officers, employees of the health board, but it's also a challenge for the non-exec board members as well. It goes back to the point that Vikki Howells made about making sure that board members are in a position to properly undertake their functions, to both scrutinise the health board and not simply to be champions for the organisation. That is a dual role, but it's one we'd expect members to undertake.

So, that's my expectation, and I do think there is always learning to be taken from where things are not optimal. And I do expect that, within this, there'll be learning for other health boards to make sure that they look again at their own compliance again to make sure they're doing what they should do, when they should do it, and that, equally, members are supported to be able to undertake effectively their role as board members.

Rwy'n hapus i roi sicrwydd a chadarnhad mewn perthynas â'ch ail bwynt yn syth. Ni fydd hyn yn effeithio ar yr amserlen ar gyfer newid y ffiniau. Credaf y byddai'n gwbl anghywir i ni geisio oedi neu dorri ar draws hynny yn awr. Mae'r newid i'r ffiniau i ddigwydd o ddechrau mis Ebrill, ac ni ddylai effeithio ar allu'r bwrdd iechyd i ymdrin â'r rhestr o feysydd. Mae'r arolwg allanol o'r gwasanaethau mamolaeth eisoes wedi'i gomisiynu; bydd angen iddynt ymateb iddo. Ac mae llawer o'r meysydd sy'n peri pryder ychwanegol a grybwyllais yn fy natganiad, ac rydych wedi cyfeirio atynt, yn ymwneud â chydymffurfiaeth a sicrhau bod pethau'n cael eu gwneud yn iawn ac o fewn cyfnod priodol o amser.

Her i swyddogion, cyflogeion y bwrdd iechyd, yn rhannol yw'r gwaith o sicrhau ansawdd trefniadau llywodraethu, ond mae hefyd yn her i'r aelodau anweithredol o'r bwrdd yn ogystal. Mae'n ymwneud â'r pwynt a wnaeth Vikki Howells ynglŷn â sicrhau bod aelodau'r bwrdd mewn sefyllfa i gyflawni eu swyddogaethau yn briodol, i graffu ar y bwrdd iechyd ac nid gweithredu fel hyrwyddwyr y sefydliad yn unig. Mae honno'n rôl ddeuol, ond mae'n un y byddem yn disgwyl i aelodau ei chyflawni.

Felly, dyna rwy'n ei ddisgwyl, a chredaf y gallwn bob amser ddysgu gwersi o sefyllfaoedd lle nad yw pethau ar eu gorau. Ac yn rhan o hyn, rwy'n disgwyl y bydd gwersi i fyrddau iechyd eraill eu dysgu er mwyn sicrhau eu bod yn edrych eto ar eu cydymffurfiaeth eu hunain i wneud yn siŵr eu bod yn gwneud yr hyn y dylent fod yn ei wneud, pan ddylent ei wneud, ac yn yr un modd, fod aelodau'n cael eu cynorthwyo i allu ymgymryd â'u rôl fel aelodau o'r bwrdd yn effeithiol.

4. Datganiadau 90 Eiliad
4. 90-second Statements

Item 4 on our agenda is the 90-second statements, and we have one this afternoon from the Llywydd, Elin Jones.

Eitem 4 ar ein hagenda yw'r datganiadau 90 eiliad, ac mae gennym un y prynhawn yma, gan y Llywydd, Elin Jones.

Ar 9 Ionawr 1839, 180 o flynyddoedd i’r dydd heddiw, ganwyd Sarah Jane Rees yn Llangrannog, Ceredigion. Yn fwy adnabyddus yn ôl ei henw barddol, Cranogwen, fe wnaeth hi herio holl gyfyngiadau ar fywyd menyw yn yr oes Fictoraidd i fwynhau gyrfa arloesol. Yng ngeiriau yr Athro Deirdre Beddoe:

'Cranogwen oedd merch Gymreig fwyaf nodedig y bedwaredd ganrif ar bymtheg.'

Yn ei harddegau hwyr, perswadiodd ei thad, a oedd yn gapten llong, i fynd â hi i’r môr. Am ddwy flynedd bu'n gweithio fel morwraig ar longau cargo rhwng Cymru a Ffrainc cyn dychwelyd i Lundain ac i Lerpwl i gynyddu ei haddysg forwrol. Enillodd ei thystysgrif prif forwr, ac, yn 21 oed, sefydlodd ysgol yng Ngheredigion, lle addysgodd forwriaeth i ddynion ifanc lleol.

Yn 1865, daeth yn enwog dros nos gan mai hi oedd y fenyw gyntaf erioed i ennill gwobr farddoniaeth yn yr Eisteddfod Genedlaethol, gan guro prif feirdd eraill y dydd. Roedd cerdd fuddugol Cranogwen, 'Y Fodrwy Briodasol', yn ddychan cynhyrfus ar dynged y wraig briod. Aeth ymlaen i fod yn un o'r beirdd mwyaf poblogaidd yng Nghymru, gan farddoni ar bynciau amrywiol o wladgarwch i longddrylliadau.

Mi oedd yn ddarlithwraig ac yn bregethwraig ar adeg pan nad oedd siarad cyhoeddus yn beth derbyniol i fenywod o gwbl. Mi sefydlodd gylchgrawn i fenywod, Y Frythones, sefydlodd Undeb Dirwestol Merched y De, a gwneud hynny er mwyn sicrhau diogelwch menywod yn eu cartrefi ac o fewn cymdeithas.

Un o'i syniadau mwyaf blaengar oedd lloches i fenywod ifanc, ac er na fu hi byw i weld ei breuddwyd o dŷ i fenywod digartref yn cael ei adeiladu, agorwyd y lloches Llety Cranogwen er cof iddi yn y Rhondda yn 1922.

Mae Cranogwen yn un o’r pump o fenywod Cymreig y Merched Mawreddog/Hidden Heroines, sy’n destun pleidlais yr wythnos yma i’w hanfarwoli gyda cherflun cyhoeddus. Y bedair arall yw Elizabeth Andrews, Betty Campbell, Elaine Morgan, a’r Arglwyddes Rhondda. Mi fydd y bleidlais yma yn agor am 9.30 p.m. nos Wener. Mi fyddaf i yn pleidleisio dros Cranogwen o Geredigion, ond mae’r pump ohonynt, a mwy, yn haeddu eu cofio a’u hanrhydeddu.

On 9 January, 1839, exactly 180 years to the day, Sarah Jane Rees was born in Llangrannog, Ceredigion. Better known by her bardic name, Cranogwen, she challenged all the restrictions of a woman’s life in the Victorian age and enjoyed a groundbreaking career. In the words of Professor Deirdre Beddoe:

'Cranogwen was the most notable Welsh woman of the nineteenth century.'

In her late teens, she persuaded her father, who was a  ship’s captain, to take her on board ship. For two years, she worked as a sailor on cargo ships between Wales and France before returning to London and Liverpool to further her nautical career. She gained her master mariner certificate, and, at the age of 21, she established a school in Ceredigion where she taught seamanship to local young men.

In 1865, she became an overnight sensation as the first woman ever to win a poetry prize at the National Eisteddfod, beating the major male poets of the day. Cranogwen’s winning poem, ‘Y Fodrwy Briodasol’—the wedding ring—was a stirring satire on the fate of the married woman. She went on to be one of the most popular poets in Wales, exploring themes ranging from patriotism to shipwrecks.

She was a lecturer and a preacher in an age when public speaking by women was frowned upon. She established a women’s magazine, Y Frythones. She established the South Wales Women’s Temperance Union in order to secure the safety of women in both their homes and within society.

One of her most progressive ideas was a refuge for young women, and while she did not live to see her dream of a home for homeless women being built, the Llety Cranogwen shelter was opened in her memory in the Rhondda in 1922.

Cranogwen is one of the five Welsh Hidden Heroines subject to a public poll this week. The winner will be immortalised by a public statue. The other four are Elizabeth Andrews, Betty Campbell, Elaine Morgan and Lady Rhondda. This poll will open at 9.30 p.m. this Friday night. I will cast my vote for Cranogwen from Ceredigion, but all five, and more, deserve to be both remembered and honoured.

15:30
Cynnig i ethol Aelod i bwyllgor
Motion to elect a Member to a Committee

We now move on to a motion to elect a member to a committee, and I call on the Member of the Business Committee to move the motion formally. 

Symudwn yn awr at gynnig i ethol aelod i bwyllgor, a galwaf ar yr Aelod o'r Pwyllgor Busnes i wneud y cynnig yn ffurfiol.

Cynnig NDM6916 Elin Jones

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.14, yn ethol Rebecca Evans (Llafur) yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor Busnes yn lle Julie James (Llafur).

Motion NDM6916 Elin Jones

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects Rebecca Evans (Labour) as a Member of the Business Committee in place of Julie James (Labour).

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36. 

Diolch. Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

5. Dadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyllid: Cost Gofalu am Boblogaeth sy'n Heneiddio
5. Debate on the Finance Committee report: The Cost of Caring for an Ageing Population

Item 5 on our agenda this afternoon is a debate on the Finance Committee report 'The cost of caring for an ageing population'. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—Llyr Gruffydd. 

Eitem 5 ar agenda ein y prynhawn yma yw dadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyllid 'Cost gofalu am boblogaeth sy'n heneiddio'. Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i wneud y cynnig—Llyr Gruffydd.

Cynnig NDM6908 Llyr Gruffydd

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyllid, 'Cost gofalu am boblogaeth sy’n heneiddio', a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 12 Hydref 2018.

Motion NDM6908 Llyr Gruffydd

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the Finance Committee, 'The cost of caring for an ageing population', which was laid in the Table Office on 12 October 2018.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n falch iawn o gael siarad yn y ddadl yma heddiw fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cyllid ar yr ymchwiliad i gost gofal am boblogaeth sy'n heneiddio. Ac er nad  oeddwn i'n aelod o'r pwyllgor adeg cynnal rhai o'r sesiynau tystiolaeth, mi hoffwn i, wrth gwrs, ddiolch i bawb a gyfrannodd, a hefyd i'r Gweinidog blaenorol dros Blant, Pobl Hŷn a Gofal Cymdeithasol am ei ymateb e i'n hadroddiad ni, ac yn enwedig am dderbyn ein hargymhellion ni, naill ai yn llawn neu mewn egwyddor.

Fe gafodd un o'r chwe maes a drafodwyd gennym ni yn ein hymchwiliad, sef yr arfau cyllidol, neu'r levers cyllidol, sydd ar gael ar gyfer ariannu gofal cymdeithasol, ei drafod yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ddoe, wrth gwrs, ac felly mi fyddaf i'n canolbwyntio ar y pum arf arall yn fy nghyfraniad i heddiw. Fodd bynnag, fel y nodais i ddoe, mi oeddwn i'n siomedig nad oedd y Llywodraeth yn teimlo y gallai hi gydweithio â'r pwyllgor o ran amserlennu ei dadl hi, er mwyn rhoi cyfle inni gael trosolwg mwy cydgysylltiedig o'r drefn gyllido ar gyfer gofal cymdeithasol. Fe glywom ni dystiolaeth gref yng ngwaith y pwyllgor fod dryswch ar raddfa eang am y system sydd gennym ni, ac mi ddywedwyd wrthym ni y byddai'n amhosibl creu system fwy cymhleth, hyd yn oed pe bai rhywun yn trio gwneud hynny. Nid yw dadl ddarniog ar system neu gyfundrefn ddarniog yn mynd i ddod â'r eglurder sydd ei angen arnom o ran y pwnc pwysig hwn. Felly, rydw i wedi gwneud y pwynt ein bod ni wedi colli cyfle, rydw i'n meddwl, ac rydw i'n gwybod bod y Trefnydd yma, mewn capasiti arall, yn mynd i ymateb i'r ddadl fel y Gweinidog Cyllid, ond rydw i jest eisiau dweud fy mod i'n fwy na pharod i edrych ar unrhyw ddulliau mwy creadigol i ddefnyddio amser y lle yma yn fwy effeithiol ac yn fwy effeithlon efallai yn y dyfodol. 

Nawr, fe glywodd y pwyllgor, er bod gwariant ar ofal cymdeithasol wedi'i ddiogelu mewn termau cymharol, fod gwariant y pen ar bobl dros 65 oed wedi gostwng yn sylweddol, yn rhannol oherwydd bod y boblogaeth hŷn yn cynyddu. Mae'r pwyllgor yn pryderu, oni bai bod camau'n cael eu cymryd, y bydd y pwysau parhaus yma ar gyllidebau gofal cymdeithasol, yn sgil galw cynyddol, yn arwain yn y pen draw at ddarpariaeth annigonol o wasanaethau ar gyfer pobl hŷn.

Mae'r pryder o ran y pwysau cynyddol hwn yn cael ei gymhlethu ymhellach gan ein dibyniaeth ar y rôl amhrisiadwy y mae'r 370,000 o ofalwyr di-dâl, neu ofalwyr gwirfoddol yn ei chwarae—cyfraniad, gyda llaw, sydd werth dros £8 biliwn y flwyddyn i economi Cymru, yn ôl amcangyfrifon. Ac mi hoffwn i gydnabod y rôl hanfodol hon, ac ailadrodd ein barn ni, er mor werthfawr yw'r cyfraniad hwnnw, wrth gwrs, nad yw dibynnu ar ofalwyr di-dâl yn gynaliadwy yn y tymor hirach.

Nawr, mae ein hadroddiad yn pwysleisio ein pryder ynghylch a yw'r asesiadau y mae gan ofalwyr hawl iddyn nhw o dan y Ddeddf gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn cael eu cynnal, ac, ble y maen nhw'n cael eu cynnal, a yw anghenion yn cael eu hasesu'n gywir. Mae'r cymorth a roddir i ofalwyr yn hanfodol, ac roedd y pwyllgor yn pryderu am y dull o gynnal asesiadau. Fe wnaethom ni argymell y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru gynnal adolygiad o asesiadau gofalwyr er mwyn gwerthuso a yw'r Ddeddf gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a llesiant yn cryfhau'r cymorth sy'n cael ei roi i ofalwyr. Ac rwy'n falch bod yr adolygiad hwn wedi dechrau ym mis Tachwedd, ac rwy'n edrych ymlaen at weld ei gasgliadau.

Fe glywodd y pwyllgor bryderon hefyd ynghylch pwysau ariannol a phwysau staffio yn y sector gofal. Roeddem ni'n pryderu i glywed bod darparwyr gofal cartref, mewn rhai achosion, yn ymateb drwy roi contractau yn ôl i awdurdodau lleol, gan nad ydyn nhw yn ariannol hyfyw ar lefelau'r ffioedd sy'n cael eu talu iddyn nhw. Fel sydd wedi'i nodi yn ein hadroddiad, mae'n hanfodol felly fod y contractau sy'n cael eu rhoi gan awdurdodau lleol yn realistig, a hynny er mwyn osgoi unrhyw gynnydd mewn angen sydd heb ei ddiwallu, a fyddai wedyn, yn ei dro, yn rhoi pwysau cynyddol ar y gwasanaeth iechyd cenedlaethol.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm very pleased to speak in this debate today, as Chair of the Finance Committee, on our inquiry into the cost of caring for an ageing population. And although I wasn't a member of the committee during the evidence sessions, I would like to thank everyone who contributed to those sessions, and to the previous Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care for his response to our report, and particularly for accepting our recommendations, either in full or in principle.

One of the six areas we covered in our inquiry, namely the fiscal levers available for funding social care, was debated in Plenary yesterday, of course, and so, I will focus on the five other levers in my contribution today. However, as I noted yesterday, I was disappointed that the Government didn’t feel able to work with the committee on the scheduling of their debate, to provide a more joined-up overview of the social care funding system. We heard stark evidence during the committee's inquiry that there was widespread confusion about the system that we have, and we were told that it would be impossible to create a more complex system even if one tried to do so. But fragmented debate on a fragmented system doesn’t help to bring the clarity that is so important in terms of this issue. So, I've made the point that we've missed an opportunity, and I know that the Trefnydd is here in another capacity and will respond to this debate as the Minister for Finance, but I just wanted to make the point that I'm more than willing to look at any more creative ways of using this place's time more effectively and more efficiently in future. 

Now, the committee heard that although spending on social care has been protected in relative terms, the spending per capita on people over 65 years old had decreased significantly, partly due to the increasing older population. The committee is concerned that, unless action is taken, continuing pressures on social care budgets from increased demand will result in a weaker service and inadequate provision for older people, ultimately.

Concerns over the growing pressures is further compounded by the reliance on the invaluable role played by the 370,000 unpaid or volunteer carers, a contribution that has been valued at over £8 billion per year to the Welsh economy. And I would like to acknowledge the vital role that they play and to reiterate our view that, despite the value of that contribution, depending on unpaid careers is not sustainable in the longer term. 

Our report emphasises our concern around whether the assessments that carers are entitled to under the social services Act are being carried out, and, where they're being carried out, whether needs are being assessed correctly. The support provided to carers is crucial, of course, and the committee was concerned by the approach to assessments. We recommended that the Welsh Government conduct a review of carers’ assessments to evaluate whether the social services and well-being Act is strengthening support to carers. And I’m pleased that this review began in November, and look forward to its conclusions.

The committee heard concerns too around financial and staffing pressures in the care sector. We were concerned to hear that, in some cases, providers of domiciliary care are responding by handing back contracts to local authorities as they are not financially viable on the fee levels paid. As is noted in our report, it is essential therefore that contracts issued by local authorities are realistic to avoid an increase in any unmet need that would in turn lead to increased pressure on the NHS.

Fe glywom ni am argyfwng wrth geisio recriwtio a chadw staff gofal cymdeithasol, ac roedd cyflog isel a chanfyddiad o statws cymdeithasol isel yn ffactorau a oedd yn cyfrannu at y sefyllfa yma. Mae'r sector gofal cymdeithasol, yn arbennig, yn agored i bwysau ychwanegol ar y gweithlu, gan fod cyfran uchel o'r staff eu hunain yn heneiddio. Ac rŷm ni hefyd yn pryderu'n arbennig ynghylch honiadau bod staff, ar ôl cael eu hyfforddi gan ddarparwyr gofal, yn cael eu colli i'r gwasanaeth iechyd cenedlaethol, neu i awdurdodau lleol, sydd, wrth gwrs, ag amodau gwaith a phecynnau cyflogaeth mwy deniadol i'r gweithwyr rheini. Yn ein hadroddiad ni, rŷm ni'n pwysleisio'r ffaith bod mynd i'r afael â materion yn ymwneud â'r gweithlu yn hanfodol er mwyn sicrhau cynaliadwyedd y system. Mae angen i bobl weld gofal cymdeithasol fel opsiwn gyrfa deniadol, a hynny er mwyn denu gweithwyr newydd, ac, wrth gwrs, er mwyn cadw staff profiadol. Ac mae'n rhaid i'r amodau gwaith yn y sector gofal fod yn gydradd â'r rhai sy'n cael eu cynnig i staff sy'n gweithio yn y gwasanaeth iechyd cenedlaethol, a hynny er mwyn dangos pa mor werthfawr yw'r rolau hyn. Felly, rŷm ni'n argymell bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn blaenoriaethu'r broses o ddatblygu strategaeth ar gyfer y gweithlu gofal cymdeithasol i fynd i'r afael â'r pryderon hyn. Ac mi ddylai hyn gynnwys cymryd camau i godi statws y rheini sy'n gweithio yn y sector gofal cymdeithasol, er mwyn sicrhau bod y rôl hon yn yrfa ddeniadol sydd yn denu cyflog priodol.

Rydw i'n falch bod yr argymhelliad hwn wedi'i dderbyn, a bod y Llywodraeth, yn ei hymateb, yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd sicrhau gweithlu gofal cymdeithasol cynaliadwy, ac rydw i'n croesawu ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth i roi gwelliannau ar waith. Ac mi fydd y pwyllgor yn edrych ar effeithiolrwydd y mesurau a weithredwyd yn ddiweddar, yn ogystal â'r rhai a gaiff eu cyflwyno yn nes ymlaen eleni, pan fyddwn ni'n cynnal ein hadolygiad o'r cynnydd sydd wedi cael ei wneud ar weithredu ein hargymhellion ni yn 2020.

Nawr, mae'r pwyllgor yn croesawu'r cynnydd yn y trothwy cyfalaf ar gyfer cyfraniadau o asedau mewn perthynas â gofal dibreswyl, ond rydym yn pryderu ynghylch a yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi darparu cyllid digonol i dalu am refeniw a gollwyd gan awdurdodau lleol. Rŷm ni'n croesawu'r cyhoeddiad diweddar, wrth gwrs, ynghylch y cynnydd terfynol a wnaed i gyrraedd trothwy o £50,000, yn ogystal â'r £7 miliwn ychwanegol a ddarperir i ariannu hyn. Ond, yn bwysicaf oll, rŷm ni'n croesawu'r ymrwymiad i fonitro, a hefyd i addasu'r cyllid hwn os yw e yn annigonol.

Er ein bod ni'n croesawu cynlluniau'r grŵp rhyngweinidogol ar dalu am ofal cymdeithasol ar gyfer ymgysylltu ag aelodau'r cyhoedd, er mwyn eu hysbysu nhw'n well ynglŷn â fframwaith y taliadau yn y flwyddyn sydd i ddod, mae'r pwyllgor yn pryderu am y diffyg ymwybyddiaeth cyffredinol sy'n bodoli o ran talu am ofal cymdeithasol i oedolion, ac yn benodol am y ffaith y gall y cymhlethdod sydd ynghlwm wrth y trefniadau presennol arwain at annhegwch mewn perthynas â'r rhai sy'n gymwys i gael cymorth ffurfiol a ariennir yn gyhoeddus.

Fel rhan o'n hymchwiliad, bu'r pwyllgor yn trafod opsiynau ar gyfer diwygio cyllidol, gan gynnwys y cynnig a wnaed gan yr Athro Gerry Holtham ar gyfer cyflwyno cynllun cyfrannol o yswiriant gorfodol. Nawr, rŷm ni'n croesawu'r gwaith a gomisiynwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i ddatblygu'r cynnig hwn fel cam cadarnhaol tuag at gydnabod y bydd angen i'r system bresennol newid er mwyn diwallu'r galw yn y dyfodol.

Mae'r pwyllgor yn ategu galwadau gan randdeiliaid am sgwrs genedlaethol am safon y gofal y mae'r cyhoedd yn awyddus i'w chael, cyn bod unrhyw benderfyniadau'n cael eu gwneud am y drefn gyllido yn y dyfodol. Felly, fe wnaethom ni argymell y dylai'r Llywodraeth ymgysylltu â'r cyhoedd ynglŷn â chyllid gofal cymdeithasol yn y dyfodol, a hynny er mwyn trafod yr hyn y byddai'r cyhoedd yn disgwyl ei gael yn gyfnewid am wneud unrhyw gyfraniadau ychwanegol. Yn benodol, fe wnaethom ni argymell, cyn cyflwyno ardoll i godi arian ychwanegol ar gyfer gofal cymdeithasol, y bydd angen i Lywodraeth Cymru gyfiawnhau sut y bydd unrhyw arian a godir yn cael ei ddefnyddio, a dangos sut y bydd yr arian hwn yn gwneud gwahaniaeth. Nawr, mi ddylai'r broses hon gynnwys egluro'r lefel o ofal y dylai'r cyhoedd ei disgwyl, gan ei bod hi'n annhebygol, wrth gwrs, y bydd y cyhoedd yn rhoi ei gefnogaeth os yw'r gofal a ddarperir yn parhau ar ei lefel bresennol. Ac mi oedd clywed sylwadau'r Gweinidog iechyd ynglŷn â'r angen yma am y sgwrs genedlaethol yma ddoe, wrth gwrs, yn galonogol i'r perwyl hwnnw.

Rydw i'n croesawu'r ffaith bod y Llywodraeth wedi derbyn argymhellion 7 ac 8 yn ein hadroddiad ni, ac yn benodol ei hymrwymiad i ddatblygu modelau cyllido arloesol, i sicrhau bod adnoddau ar gael i fodloni anghenion gofal cymdeithasol yn y dyfodol, a'i chydnabyddiaeth y bydd angen ymgysylltu cyhoeddus sylweddol cyn gwneud penderfyniadau.

Yn olaf, mae'r pwyllgor yn ymwybodol o gasgliadau'r adolygiad seneddol o iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Nawr, mi glywodd y pwyllgor fod y cynnig i sefydlu un system iechyd a gofal di-dor wedi'i groesawu'n fras, ond rŷm ni hefyd yn ymwybodol, wrth gwrs, o'r pryderon sy'n bodoli ynglŷn â'r ffaith bod gofal cymdeithasol weithiau'n cael ei weld fel gwasanaeth sinderela. Mi wnaeth y pwyllgor argymell bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn archwilio sut y gallai'r cynnig i sefydlu system iechyd a gofal di-dor, a argymhellir yn yr adolygiad seneddol, gyfuno cronfa ar gyfer gofal cymdeithasol â'r gwasanaeth iechyd cenedlaethol sydd am ddim, wrth gwrs, ar y pwynt cysylltu. Fe gafodd yr argymhelliad hwn ei dderbyn mewn egwyddor yn unig. Felly, mi fyddem ni yn croesawu rhagor o wybodaeth gan y Gweinidog ynghylch sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn rhagweld y bydd y syniad yma yn cael ei ddatblygu.

Mae'r gost o ofalu am boblogaeth sy'n heneiddio yn un o'r materion mwyaf a phwysicaf sy'n wynebu Cymru heddiw, ac mae'n galonogol bod y Llywodraeth yn derbyn ein holl argymhellion, ac eithrio un, yn llawn. Mae ymateb y Llywodraeth yn cyfeirio at weithgarwch amrywiol ar y pwnc, gan gynnwys creu grwpiau rhyngweinidogol, datblygu nifer o strategaethau hirdymor, cynnal ymgynghoriadau a chodi ymwybyddiaeth. Ac mae hyn i gyd, fel rydw i'n ei ddweud, yn galonogol, ac rŷm ni'n gobeithio gweld canlyniadau cadarnhaol yn sgil y mentrau yma pan fyddwn ni, wrth gwrs, yn adolygu'r holl argymhellion yn ein hadroddiad ni yn y flwyddyn 2020.

Fodd bynnag, mae yn hanfodol bod newidiadau yn cael eu gwneud. Mae angen gweithredu cadarn, a hynny ar frys, er mwyn dod o hyd i'r datrysiad gorau i Gymru ac er mwyn sicrhau y gall pobl Cymru weld cynnydd. Mae cost gofalu am boblogaeth sy'n heneiddio yn broblem na ddylai byth fod yn bell o'n meddyliau ni, ac mae'n broblem sy'n effeithio'n uniongyrchol neu'n anuniongyrchol ar bob un ohonom ni. Diolch. 

We heard of a crisis in the recruitment and retention of social care staff, with low pay and perceived low social status being contributory factors. The social care sector is especially susceptible to additional workforce pressures, as a high proportion of the staff themselves are ageing. And we are also particularly concerned about claims that staff, after being trained by care providers, are being lost to the NHS, or to local authorities, which, of course, have more attractive working conditions and employee packages. We emphasise in our report that addressing workforce issues is fundamental to ensuring the sustainability of the system. People need to see social care as an attractive career option in order to encourage new recruits, and to retain experienced staff. Working conditions in the social care sector must be on a par with those offered to staff in the national health service, in order to demonstrate how valuable these roles are. Therefore, we recommend that the Welsh Government prioritise the process of developing a strategy for the social care workforce, to address these concerns. And this should include taking action to raise the status of those working in the social care sector, in order to ensure that this in an attractive career option, which is appropriately remunerated.

I am pleased that this recommendation has been accepted, and that the Government, in its response, recognises the importance of ensuring a sustainable social care workforce, and I welcome the Government's commitment to delivering improvements. And the committee will look at the effectiveness of the measures implemented recently, as well as those being rolled out later this year, when we undertake our review of the progress made in implementing the recommendations in 2020.

Now, the committee welcomes the increase in the capital threshold for contributions to non-residential care from assets, but is concerned as to whether Welsh Government has provided sufficient funding to cover revenue lost by local authorities. We welcome the recent announcement, of course, on the final increase to a £50,000 threshold, as well as the additional £7 million to fund this, but, most importantly, we welcome the commitment to monitor and also to adjust this funding, should that prove to be inadequate.

Although we welcome the inter-ministerial group on paying for social care’s plans for public engagement to better inform the public of the charging framework in the coming year, the committee is concerned by the general lack of awareness around paying for adult social care, and particularly the fact that the complexity related to the current arrangements can lead to unfairness in respect of those eligible to receive publicly funded formal support.

As part of our inquiry, the committee considered options for fiscal reform, including the proposal made by Professor Gerry Holtham for a contributory scheme of compulsory insurance. Now, we welcome the work commissioned by the Welsh Government in developing this proposal as a positive step in acknowledging that the existing system will need to change to meet future demand.

The committee endorses calls made by stakeholders for a national conversation about the standard of the care that the public wants, before decisions about future funding are made. We therefore recommended that the Government should engage with the public about the future funding of social care, in order to discuss what the public would expect to receive in return for any additional contributions in the future. In particular, we recommended that, before introducing a levy to raise additional funding for social care, the Welsh Government will need to be able to justify how any funds raised will be used, and to demonstrate that this funding will make a difference. Now, this process should include explaining the level of care that the public should expect, since it's unlikely, of course, that the public will support this if the care provided remains as its current level. And listening to the comments of the health Minister about this national conversation yesterday, of course, was encouraging.

I welcome the Government’s acceptance of recommendations 7 and 8, and particularly its commitment to develop innovative funding models, to ensure resources are available to meet future social care needs, as well as its recognition that significant public engagement will be needed before decisions are made.

Finally, the committee is aware of the conclusions of the parliamentary review of health and social care in Wales. Now, the committee heard that the proposal for a single system of seamless health and care was broadly welcomed, but we're also aware, of course, of the concerns that exist that social care can sometimes be seen as a cinderella service. Now, the committee recommended that the Welsh Government explores how the proposal of a seamless health and care system, advocated in the review, could combine a fund for social care as well as the national health service, which would be free at the point of contact. This recommendation was accepted in principle only; therefore, we would be grateful for more information from the Minister as to how the Welsh Government envisages this idea developing. 

The cost of caring for an ageing population is one of the biggest and most important issues facing Wales today, and it is reassuring that the Government accepts all the recommendations, bar one, in full. The Government’s response refers to a variety of activity on the subject, including the creation of inter-ministerial groups, the multiple long-term strategies being developed, the consultations and awareness raising, all of which, of course, is encouraging, and we do hope to see positive outcomes from these initiatives when we review all of these recommendations in the year 2020.

However, it is vital that changes are made. Firm and urgent action is needed, in order to find the best solutions for Wales and in order to ensure that the people of Wales can see progress. The cost of caring for an ageing population is an issue that should never be far from our thoughts, and it's a problem that directly or indirectly affects us all. Thank you. 

15:40

I'm pleased to contribute to this debate and, indeed, to have been a member of the Finance Committee and to have taken part in the report of the Finance Committee review. It was a thought-provoking inquiry about an issue that, as the Chair of the committee has said, is of growing concern and should be of growing concern to all of us. As we've heard, the proportion of older people in Wales has been increasing over the last decade, and projections show that this trend will only continue. There are serious questions to be addressed with regard to the level of resources available to maintain services and the pressures upon them.

So, where do we go from here? This is what we tried to address in the report. Well, as has been said, Professor Gerry Holtham has suggested a common insurance fund to cover future costs of adult social care, and the committee looked at this, as well as other possible solutions, and I'll come on to those in a moment. 

First of all, if I can turn to some of our key recommendations, recommendation 1 calls on the Welsh Government to develop more targeted research, so that we have access to the most up-to-date and accurate data to base future projections on, and, as we know from experience, some of the limitations of Welsh-only data to date has been an issue for this Assembly. Recommendation 2 calls for a full review of carers' assessments and whether the Act has actually delivered stronger support for carers on the ground—its whole intention.

Now, our inquiry looked at the fragility of the provider market, and the evidence provided to us suggested that the market has been fragile for some considerable time, and this is leading to increasing in-sourcing by local authorities to try and reduce the risk exposure for the independent sector. Public Policy Institute for Wales highlighted to us how some providers are returning their contracts to local authorities, because they can't provide at the set fee level. So, whichever way you look at it, this is—over the longer term—an unsustainable situation. 

If I can just say a little bit about the workforce pressures and retention, the committee received a great deal of evidence that pointed to the difficulties in recruiting staff to the social care sector in the first place, and indeed subsequently retaining those staff. Care Forum Wales said that care workers can often earn more stacking shelves, unbelievably, than working in the sector, or that's the perception, at least, and that cannot be right. I'm pleased the Minister has committed to raising the profile of social care workers so that it can be seen as a more positive career choice, because that was certainly lacking from the evidence that we took from the sector. But we need to do more than that; it's more than just perception. We do need to retain those employees once they're recruited. 

Just moving on to the proposed social care levy that the Chair has mentioned and Professor Gerry Holtham's favoured solution and its key tenets. Those are contributions made as a proportion of income, with rates remaining constant throughout a person's life, although they would be higher the older a person is when they enter the scheme. Professor Holtham was quite honest and said that more work would need to be done on whether you would have a sliding scale, for instance, of contribution or a flat rate of, he suggested, 1.5 per cent. So, there are many variables.

Professor Holtham also admitted his suggestion that reversing the 20 per cent decline in spend per head of population, which he identified, may or may not be sufficient to tackle the problems that we face. He said that it might be better to talk in the region of 23 per cent at the higher end or 17 per cent at the lower end and that either of these may work, or they may not, and that a great deal more work would need to be done to find out exactly what level that would need to be set at.

There's also, of course the important issue of how you sell all this to the public. Do you refer to the new scheme as a levy—effectively a tax—or do you label it as compulsory insurance? Of course, even if you do the latter, it may come to be regarded as a tax anyway, so you may as well, in some cases, bite the bullet on that, but the public must know that there is a big problem here and they must be on our side in finding a way to tackle it.

Crucially, I think, this has to have cross-party support and be supported for the longer term. That's the only way that this will work and be accepted. You also have to have agreement on how to cover the costs for those who may not have made any significant contributions throughout their lives through illness or through not working for other reasons.

So, do we have a separate levy or incorporate it into the Welsh rate of income tax? That option will soon be open to the Welsh Government. The latter is a simpler, as the former finance Minister said, way of doing things and the structure is in place, but, again, the public may need to see clearly that the amount being collected is going towards their social care.

So, finally, the Minister said—or the former Cabinet Secretary, as he was—that a UK-wide solution would probably be the best solution and I can see his reasons for saying that. The costs are so great that spreading this across the UK would probably be beneficial. But that said, if this does ultimately fall to Wales to make headway on this issue, then so be it. This is an issue that cannot be ignored for any longer. It was a pretty bleak picture that the report painted, but there were also a number of solutions in there and I think we all have to look at that across parties to find a way to move forward that's acceptable to all of us here and also to the public at large.

Rwy'n falch o gyfrannu at y ddadl hon ac yn wir, o fod wedi bod yn aelod o'r Pwyllgor Cyllid a chymryd rhan yn adroddiad adolygiad y Pwyllgor Cyllid. Roedd yn ymchwiliad a ysgogai'r meddwl am fater sydd, fel y dywedodd Cadeirydd y pwyllgor, yn peri pryder cynyddol ac a ddylai beri pryder cynyddol i bob un ohonom. Fel y clywsom, mae cyfran y bobl hŷn yng Nghymru wedi bod yn cynyddu dros y degawd diwethaf, ac mae'r rhagolygon yn dangos y bydd y duedd hon yn parhau. Mae cwestiynau difrifol i'w hateb o ran y lefel o adnoddau sydd ar gael ar gyfer cynnal gwasanaethau a'r pwysau arnynt.

Felly, i ble yr awn oddi yma? Dyna y ceisiwyd ei ateb yn yr adroddiad. Wel, fel y dywedwyd, mae'r Athro Gerry Holtham wedi awgrymu cronfa yswiriant cyffredin i dalu am gostau gofal cymdeithasol i oedolion yn y dyfodol, ac edrychodd y pwyllgor ar hyn, yn ogystal ag atebion eraill posibl, a dof at y rheini mewn munud.

Yn gyntaf oll, hoffwn gyfeirio'n fyr at rai o'n prif argymhellion, ac mae argymhelliad 1 yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddatblygu mwy o ymchwil wedi'i dargedu, fel bod gennym y data mwyaf diweddar a manwl gywir ar gyfer seilio amcanestyniadau ar gyfer y dyfodol arnynt, ac fel y gwyddom o brofiad, hyd yma mae rhai o gyfyngiadau'r data ar Gymru yn unig wedi bod yn broblem i'r Cynulliad hwn. Mae argymhelliad 2 yn galw am adolygiad llawn o asesiadau gofalwyr ac i weld a yw'r Ddeddf wedi darparu cymorth mwy cadarn i ofalwyr ar lawr gwlad mewn gwirionedd—sef ei holl fwriad.

Nawr, edrychodd ein hymchwiliad ar natur fregus y farchnad ddarparwyr, ac roedd y dystiolaeth a ddarparwyd ar ein cyfer yn awgrymu bod y farchnad wedi bod yn fregus ers cryn dipyn, ac mae hyn yn arwain at gynyddu'r adnoddau mewnol a ddefnyddir gan awdurdodau lleol er mwyn ceisio lleihau'r risg i'r sector annibynnol. Nododd y Sefydliad Polisi Cyhoeddus i Gymru sut y mae rhai darparwyr yn dychwelyd eu contractau i awdurdodau lleol, am na allant ddarparu gwasanaethau ar lefel y ffi a osodwyd. Felly, pa ffordd bynnag yr edrychwch arni, mae hon—dros y tymor hwy—yn sefyllfa anghynaliadwy.

Os caf ddweud ychydig am y pwysau ar y gweithlu a chadw gweithwyr, cafodd y pwyllgor lawer o dystiolaeth a dynnai sylw at yr anawsterau i recriwtio staff i'r sector gofal cymdeithasol yn y lle cyntaf, a chadw'r staff hynny wedyn. Dywedodd Fforwm Gofal Cymru y gall gweithwyr gofal ennill mwy drwy lenwi silffoedd yn aml na thrwy weithio yn y sector, ac mae hynny'n anhygoel, neu dyna'r canfyddiad, o leiaf, ac ni all hynny fod yn iawn. Rwy'n falch fod y Gweinidog wedi ymrwymo i godi proffil gweithwyr gofal cymdeithasol fel y gellir ei weld fel dewis gyrfa mwy cadarnhaol, gan fod hynny'n sicr ar goll o'r dystiolaeth a gawsom gan y sector. Ond mae angen inni wneud mwy na hynny; mae'n fwy na chanfyddiad. Mae angen inni gadw'r gweithwyr hynny ar ôl eu recriwtio.

Gan symud ymlaen at yr ardoll gofal cymdeithasol arfaethedig y cyfeiriodd y Cadeirydd ati a'r ateb y mae'r Athro Gerry Holtham yn ei ffafrio a'i elfennau allweddol, sef cyfraniadau a wneir fel cyfran o incwm, gyda chyfraddau'n aros yn gyson drwy gydol oes yr unigolyn, er y byddent yn uwch po hynaf y bo'r unigolyn wrth ymuno â'r cynllun. Roedd yr Athro Holtham yn onest iawn a dywedodd y byddai angen gwneud rhagor o waith i weld a fyddai gennych raddfa symudol, er enghraifft, ar gyfer cyfrannu neu gyfradd sefydlog—awgrymodd 1.5 y cant. Felly, mae yna nifer o newidynnau.

Cyfaddefodd yr Athro Holtham hefyd nad oedd sicrwydd fod ei awgrym i wrthdroi'r dirywiad o 20 y cant a nododd yn y gwariant fesul y pen o'r boblogaeth yn ddigon i fynd i'r afael â'r problemau sy'n ein hwynebu. Dywedodd y gallai fod yn well sôn am oddeutu 23 y cant ar y pen uchaf neu 17 y cant ar y pen isaf ac y gallai'r naill neu'r llall o'r rhain weithio, neu beidio â gweithio, ac y byddai angen gwneud llawer iawn mwy o waith i ddarganfod ar ba lefel yn union y byddai angen ei osod.

Hefyd, wrth gwrs, mae'r cwestiwn pwysig ynglŷn â sut y mae gwerthu hyn oll i'r cyhoedd. A ydych yn cyfeirio at y cynllun newydd fel ardoll—treth i bob pwrpas—neu a ydych yn ei labelu fel yswiriant gorfodol? Wrth gwrs, hyd yn oed os gwnewch yr olaf, gallai ddod i gael ei hystyried fel treth beth bynnag, felly mewn rhai achosion o bosibl, waeth i chi fynd amdani ar hynny, ond rhaid i'r cyhoedd gael gwybod bod problem fawr yma a rhaid iddynt fod ar ein hochr ni o ran dod o hyd i ffordd o'i datrys.

Yn hollbwysig, rwy'n credu, rhaid i hyn gael cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol a hirdymor. Dyna'r unig ffordd y bydd hyn yn gweithio ac yn cael ei dderbyn. Hefyd, rhaid ichi gael cytundeb ynglŷn â sut i dalu costau'r rhai nad ydynt o bosibl wedi gwneud unrhyw gyfraniadau sylweddol ar hyd eu hoes o ganlyniad i salwch neu fethu gweithio am resymau eraill.

Felly, a ydym am gael ardoll ar wahân neu ei hymgorffori yng nghyfradd Cymru o'r dreth incwm? Bydd yr opsiwn hwnnw'n agored i Lywodraeth Cymru cyn bo hir. Mae'r olaf yn ffordd symlach o wneud pethau, fel y dywedodd y cyn-Weinidog cyllid, ac mae'r strwythur yn ei le, ond unwaith eto, efallai y bydd angen i'r cyhoedd weld yn glir fod y swm sy'n cael ei gasglu yn mynd tuag at eu gofal cymdeithasol.

Felly, yn olaf, dywedodd y Gweinidog—neu'r cyn-Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, fel yr oedd—mai ateb DU gyfan fyddai'r ateb gorau yn ôl pob tebyg a gallaf weld ei resymau dros ddweud hynny. Mae'r costau mor fawr fel y byddai lledaenu hyn ar draws y DU yn fanteisiol mae'n debyg. Ond wedi dweud hynny, os mai Cymru fydd yn arwain ar hyn yn y pen draw, boed hynny fel y bo. Mae hwn yn fater na ellir ei anwybyddu mwyach. Rhoddodd yr adroddiad ddarlun go lwm i ni, ond roedd yn cynnwys nifer o atebion hefyd a chredaf fod yn rhaid i ni i gyd edrych ar draws y pleidiau i ddod o hyd i ffordd o symud ymlaen sy'n dderbyniol i bawb ohonom yma ac i'r cyhoedd yn gyffredinol hefyd.

15:45

Rwy'n hapus iawn i gymryd rhan yn y ddadl yma er nad wyf yn aelod o'r Pwyllgor Cyllid, ond rydw i'n croesawu'r adroddiad a hefyd y gwaith cefndirol tu ôl iddo ac, wrth gwrs, fe wnaethom ni glywed y dadleuon yn ystod dadl y Llywodraeth ddoe. 

Mae'r system o ariannu beth sydd ar gael o dan ein system gofal cymdeithasol ni ar hyn o bryd—fel y mae'r Cadeirydd wedi ei olrhain—yn hynod gymhleth ac ni fyddai'n bosib dyfeisio system fwy cymhleth, hyd yn oed pe tasech yn trio, fel y dywedodd y Cadeirydd. Wedi dweud hynny, nid yw jest yn fater o arian. Fel y dywedais i ddoe, mae angen edrych yn gynhwysfawr ar yr her sylweddol o ddarparu gofal i'r henoed a thrio ei weld o mewn ochr bositif. Mae gennym ni gyfle i greu system gofal cymdeithasol genedlaethol yn fan hyn, achos rydw i'n credu bod angen newid y strwythur. Mae angen bod yn radical achos mae'n mynd i gymryd arian ac mae'n rhaid gallu darbwyllo'r cyhoedd bod yna system gwerth chweil, yn seiliedig ar yr un math o system â'r gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae pawb mewn cariad efo'r gwasanaeth iechyd, wel, beth am ailstrwythuro ein system gofal yr un peth â'n system gwasanaeth iechyd ni? Achos bydd yna fudd economaidd yn dod o hynny hefyd, yn darparu swyddi, cyflogau a hyfforddiant ac yn y blaen, yn union fel y gweithwyr yn y gwasanaeth iechyd, yn yr ardaloedd yna yng Nghymru sydd yn ei ffeindio hi'n anodd i gael swyddi ta beth, ac mae angen datblygu gwasanaeth gofal cymdeithasol fel datblygiad economaidd.

Achos, nid yw'r system, fel y dywedodd Nick Ramsay, yn gynaliadwy ar hyn o bryd. Mae'n rhaid cael rhyw syniad ymlaen ac nid jest meddwl am sut rydym yn mynd i ariannu system sydd yn ffaelu nawr. Achos, ar hyn o bryd, oherwydd cyfyngiadau ariannol ar wasanaethau cymdeithasol ein siroedd ni, codi y mae'r trothwy i bobl dderbyn gofal cyhoeddus bob blwyddyn rŵan. Rwy'n ei weld o o hyd: pobl hŷn efo sawl her corfforol a chymdeithasol, maen nhw'n teilyngu derbyn gofal, ond eto, nid ydyn nhw'n cyrraedd y trothwy—trothwy sydd yn codi bob blwyddyn, y trothwy i gael y gofal am ddim oddi wrth y sir, achos, yn naturiol, nid yw'r arian yna. Rydw i’n gwybod beth mae pobl yn ei ddweud: 'Aha', mae pobl yn ei ddweud, 'talwch amdano fo, felly; talwch am eich gofal yn breifat, felly.' Dyna beth rydym ni’n ei glywed, a chlywsom ni e ddoe. Ond, wrth gwrs, nid yw hynny'n opsiwn i nifer fawr o'n pobl hŷn ni; nid ydyn nhw'n gallu talu, ac maen nhw'n mynd heb ddim gofal cyhoeddus, heb ddim gofal, a'r cwbl yn syrthio ar eich teulu, os ydych chi'n ddigon ffodus i ddal cael teulu. Dyna beth rydym ni weithiau yn anghofio.

Pam mae hyn yn bwysig? Wel, mae pobl yn marw achos y toriadau cyllid a diffyg darpariaeth gofal. Pobl yn marw. Bu adolygiad yn The British Medical Journal yn 2017 yn olrhain sefyllfa enbydus gofal yn Lloegr, lle mae cyllid gofal cymdeithasol wedi gorfod dioddef ergyd ddwbl. [Torri ar draws.] Nick.

I'm delighted to participate in this debate, although I am not a member of the Finance Committee, but I welcome the report and the background work underpinning it, and we heard the arguments in the Government’s debate yesterday.

The funding system for social care—as the Chair has already outlined—is very complex indeed and it wouldn't be possible to come up with a more complex system even if you tried, as the Chair said. Having said that, it's not just a matter of money. As I said yesterday, we need to look in the round at the significant challenge of providing elder care and to try and view it from a positive perspective. We have an opportunity to create a national care system here, because I do think we need to change the structure. We need to be radical because it is going to take funding and we have to convince the public that there is a valuable system, based on a similar system to the health service. Everyone loves the health service of course, well, why not structure our care service so that it becomes more similar to our health service? Because there will be economic gains from that too, in providing jobs, salaries, training and so on and so forth, just like the workers in the health service, in those areas of Wales that find it difficult to provide jobs in the first place, and we need to develop a social care service as an economic development tool.

Because the system, as Nick Ramsay said, is not sustainable at the moment. We must have some way forward and not just think about how we're going to fund an already failing system. Because, at the moment, given the financial limitations on social services within our county councils, the threshold for people to receive care is increasing annually. I see this constantly: older people facing a number of physical and social challenges, they deserve care, but they don't reach that threshold—a threshold that increases every year, the threshold to receive care free of charge from the county, because the funding simply isn't available. I know what people are saying. They're saying, 'Well, pay for it then; pay for your care privately.' That’s what I hear, and we heard that yesterday. But, of course, that isn't an option for very many of our older people; they can't pay, and they go without any publicly provided care, and without any care, and the entire burden falls on the family, if you're fortunate enough to still have family nearby. That’s what we sometimes forget.

Why is this important? Because people are dying because of these cuts in funding and a lack of care provision. People are dying as a result of this. There was a review in The British Medical Journal in 2017 outlining the appalling situation of care in England, where social care funding has suffered a double blow. [Interruption.] Nick.

15:50

Thanks for giving way, Dai. I agree with much of what you've just said. Do you agree with me that, during the course of the inquiry, it was ironic that Professor Holtham pointed out that when he looked at public opinion in Wales, it seemed to be that there was a lack of understanding, to a great degree, about the scale of the problem that we're facing? That shows how we really need to address this and get people to understand how we've all got to face this together.

Diolch am ildio, Dai. Cytunaf â llawer o'r hyn rydych newydd ei ddweud. A ydych yn cytuno â mi ei bod yn eironig, yn ystod yr ymchwiliad, fod yr Athro Holtham wedi nodi pan edrychodd ar y farn gyhoeddus yng Nghymru, ei bod hi'n ymddangos bod diffyg dealltwriaeth, i raddau helaeth, ynglŷn â maint y broblem sy'n ein hwynebu? Mae hynny'n dangos sut y mae angen gwirioneddol inni fynd i'r afael â hyn a chael pobl i ddeall sut y mae'n rhaid i bawb ohonom wynebu hyn gyda'n gilydd.

Ie, buaswn i'n cytuno 100 y cant, achos mae angen ad-drefnu; nid yw siarad am y peth yn ddigon. Mae yna system sydd yn ffaelu yn fan hyn. Rydym ni'n ei weld o'r ffigurau—roeddwn i'n mynd i'w ddweud—yn Lloegr, rŵan. Roedd yna adolygiad wedi cael ei wneud yn y BMJ ynglŷn â gofal a bod diffygion yn y system gofal yn Lloegr wedi arwain at 22,000 o farwolaethau uwchben y disgwyl. Hynny yw, 22,000 o farwolaethau ychwanegol bob blwyddyn yn Lloegr achos dim darpariaeth gofal. Felly, nid yw ceisio taflu ychydig rhagor o arian at system sydd yn ffaelu heb ad-drefniant sylweddol yn mynd i weithio. Wrth gwrs, os bydd y system gofal yn methu, yna bydd y gwasanaeth iechyd yn methu hefyd.

Nawr, fel y dywedais i ddoe, system ranedig, rhannol breifat, rhannol gyhoeddus a rhannol elusennol oedd iechyd cyn i Aneurin Bevan fynnu sefydlu gwasanaeth iechyd cynhwysfawr i arbed bywydau, achos roedd miloedd o bobl yn y 1930au ddim yn gallu cael mynediad at driniaeth gwasanaeth iechyd o gwbl. Dyna'r sefyllfa sy'n wynebu pobl efo gofal heddiw ac mae angen gofal cymdeithasol, felly, yn teilyngu'r un un ateb, hynny yw, cael system genedlaethol, gynhwysfawr o ofal. Diolch yn fawr.

Yes, I would agree 100 per cent, because we need restructuring; just talking about the funding isn't enough. We have a failing system here. We see it from the figures—as I was just going to say—in England. There was a review carried out in the BMJ on care in England, and that the problems in the care system in England had led to 22,000 deaths above what would have been expected. That’s 22,000 additional deaths annually in England because there was no care provision available. So, trying to throw some more money at a failing system without a substantial reform is not going to work and, of course, if our care system fails, then the health service will fail too.

Now, as I said yesterday, we have a partly private system, partly public system, and partly charitable. That’s what health was before Aneurin Bevan insisted on the establishment of a comprehensive national health service to save lives, because thousands of people in the 1930s couldn't access health service treatments at all. That is the situation facing people with care today and the needs of social care, therefore, deserve the same solution as health, namely a national comprehensive care service. Thank you.