Pwyllgor Diwylliant, y Gymraeg a Chyfathrebu - Y Bumed Senedd
Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee - Fifth Senedd
08/10/2020Aelodau'r Pwyllgor a oedd yn bresennol
Committee Members in Attendance
| Carwyn Jones | |
| David Melding | |
| Helen Mary Jones | |
| John Griffiths | |
| Rhianon Passmore | Yn dirprwyo ar ran Mick Antoniw |
| Substitute for Mick Antoniw |
Y rhai eraill a oedd yn bresennol
Others in Attendance
| Bethan Webb | Llywodraeth Cymru |
| Welsh Government | |
| Dr Jeremy Evas | Llywodraeth Cymru |
| Welsh Government | |
| Eluned Morgan | Gweinidog y Gymraeg a Chysylltiadau Rhyngwladol |
| Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language |
Swyddogion y Senedd a oedd yn bresennol
Senedd Officials in Attendance
| Angharad Roche | Dirprwy Glerc |
| Deputy Clerk | |
| Martha Da Gama Howells | Clerc |
| Clerk | |
| Osian Bowyer | Ymchwilydd |
| Researcher |
Cynnwys
Contents
Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Lle mae cyfranwyr wedi darparu cywiriadau i’w tystiolaeth, nodir y rheini yn y trawsgrifiad.
The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. Where contributors have supplied corrections to their evidence, these are noted in the transcript.
Cyfarfu'r pwyllgor drwy gynhadledd fideo.
Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 09:31.
The committee met by video-conference.
The meeting began at 09:31.
Bore da, bawb. Hoffwn i groesawu fy nghyd-Aelodau i'r cyfarfod o'r Pwyllgor Diwylliant, y Gymraeg a Chyfathrebu. Yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 34.19, dwi wedi penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd rhag cael mynediad i'r pwyllgor er mwyn amddiffyn iechyd y cyhoedd. Mae'r cyfarfod yn cael ei ddarlledu yn fyw ar Senedd.tv ac mae pawb yn ymuno trwy gynhadledd fideo. Bydd trawsgrifiad o'r pwyllgor yn cael ei gyhoeddi fel arfer.
Ar wahân i'r pethau y mae'n rhaid inni eu gwneud er mwyn cynnal y cyfarfod yn rhithiol, mae pob Rheol Sefydlog arall mewn lle. Os, am unrhyw reswm, dwi'n colli cysylltiad ac yn gorfod gadael y cyfarfod mae David Melding, yn garedig iawn, wedi penderfynu cadeirio yn fy absenoldeb tra fy mod i'n trio ailymuno.
Rydyn ni wedi derbyn ymddiheuriadau gan Mick Antoniw, ac rydyn ni'n ddiolchgar iawn i Rhianon Passmore am wneud yr amser i ddod i'r pwyllgor yn ei le. Croeso aton ni, Rhianon. Oes yna ddatganiadau o fudd gan fy nghyd-Aelodau? Nac oes.
Good morning, everyone. May I welcome fellow Members to this meeting of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee? In accordance with Standing Order 34.19, I have determined that the public are excluded from attending this committee meeting in order to protect public health. The meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv and all participants are joining via video-conference. A transcript of the meeting will be published as usual.
Aside from the procedural adaptations relating to conducting proceedings remotely, all other Standing Order requirements remain in place. If, for any reason, I drop out of the meeting, David Melding has kindly offered to chair in my absence whilst I seek to rejoin.
We've received apologies from Mick Antoniw, and we're extremely grateful to Rhianon Passmore for giving of her time to substitute on his behalf. So, very warm welcome, Rhianon. Are there any declarations of interest from Members? No.
Felly, fe wnawn ni symud i eitem 2, sef ymchwiliad mewn i effaith COVID-19 ar yr iaith Gymraeg. Rydyn ni'n falch iawn i groesawu i'r cyfarfod y Gweinidog, Eluned Morgan. Bore da, Eluned, croeso cynnes aton ni.
Therefore, we will move to item 2, which is our inquiry into the effect of the COVID-19 outbreak on the Welsh language. We're very pleased to welcome the Minister, Eluned Morgan. A warm welcome, Eluned.
Bore da.
Good morning.
A Bethan Webb a Jeremy Evas. So, croeso cynnes i chi i'r cyfarfod. Gwnawn ni symud yn syth, os yw hynny'n iawn, at gwestiynau, gan ddechrau gyda Carwyn Jones.
As well as Bethan Webb and Jeremy Evas. So, a very warm welcome to you all to this meeting. We will move immediately to questions, if that's okay, and we'll begin with Carwyn Jones.
Diolch yn fawr, Gadeirydd, a bore da, Weinidog. A gaf i ofyn, yn gyntaf, i ba raddau ydych chi'n poeni am y ffaith bod sut gymaint o weithgareddau a gwyliau a hefyd digwyddiadau wedi cael eu gohirio yn ystod yr haf ynglŷn â defnydd yr iaith? Rydyn ni wedi clywed tystiolaeth, er enghraifft, wrth yr Urdd eu bod nhw wedi gweld cwymp ynglŷn â defnydd yr iaith ymhlith pobl ifanc. Beth, felly, ydy'ch casgliadau chi ynglŷn ag impact beth sydd wedi digwydd dros yr haf, ynglŷn â'r ffaith bod dim gweithgareddau a digwyddiadau wedi cymryd lle?
Thank you very much, Chair, and good morning, Minister. May I ask you, first of all, to what extent are you concerned about the fact that so many activities, festivals and events have been postponed or cancelled during the summer and the impact of that on the use of the language? We've heard evidence from the Urdd that they have seen a decline in the social use of the Welsh language among young people. So, what are your conclusions on the impact of events over the summer, in terms of events and activities having been cancelled or postponed?
Wel, rŷn ni yn poeni, wrth gwrs, ac mae'r boblogaeth i gyd wedi bod yn dioddef o ganlyniad i'r coronafeirws, ac wrth gwrs mae'r ganran yna o'r boblogaeth sy'n siarad Cymraeg hefyd wedi bod yn dioddef. Yn sicr, mae'n gwyliau ni sy'n digwydd ar hyn a lled y wlad yn gyfleoedd i bobl i ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg ac, wrth eu bod nhw wedi cael eu canslo, mae'r achlysuron hynny lle mae pobl yn cael y cyfle i drafod ac i siarad drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg wedi lleihau. Wrth gwrs, mae hynny'n fwy o broblem i bobl, efallai, sydd yn dod o gartrefi sydd yn ddi-Gymraeg a'u bod nhw ddim yn cael y cyfle i'w siarad. Ac, wrth gwrs, gan fod yr ysgolion wedi cau cyhyd, roedd hwnna wedi lleihau'r cyfleoedd.
Ond beth dwi'n meddwl sydd wedi bod yn bositif yw bod lot o'r mudiadau yma wedi addasu at fyd hollol newydd. Felly, os ŷch chi'n ystyried rhywbeth fel yr Urdd, roedd yr Urdd wedi cael ei chanslo fel gŵyl, ond mi wnaethon nhw ei haildrefnu hi fel gŵyl ar-lein, ac roedd tua 6,000 o bobl wedi cystadlu ar-lein, ac roedd tua 300,000 o wylwyr wedi bod yn rhan ohoni; jest math wahanol o'r Urdd oedd hi.
Ac felly, wrth gwrs, mae yna broblemau, ond mae yna bethau positif sydd wedi dod mas o hyn, lle rŷn ni nawr efallai yn gallu defnyddio hwnna at y dyfodol. Felly, wrth gwrs, mae problemau, ond mae yna bethau positif hefyd. Mae un o'r grwpiau, er enghraifft, Ffederasiwn Clybiau Ffermwyr Ifanc Cymru—maen nhw wedi bod yn rili gweithgar dros COVID i gyd yn helpu pobl allan, yn arbennig yng nghefn gwlad. Felly, mae pobl wedi dod i'r adwy yn ystod y cyfnod yma, a hefyd wedi rhoi cyfleoedd i'r Gymraeg i ddisgleirio.
Well, we are concerned, of course, and the whole population has been suffering as a result of coronavirus, and that percentage of the population who are Welsh speaking also suffered as a result. Certainly, our festivals that take place the length and breadth of the country are opportunities for people to make use of the Welsh language and, as they've been cancelled, those occasions when people have that opportunity to discuss and use the Welsh language have been reduced. Now, that's more of a problem, perhaps, for people who come from non-Welsh-speaking households where they don't have the opportunity to use the language at home. And, of course, the schools have been closed for a period of time, which also reduced the opportunities.
But what I do think has been positive is that many of these organisations have adapted to an entirely new circumstance. So, if you consider something like the Urdd, well, the Urdd Eisteddfod was cancelled as a festival, but they rearranged the event as an online festival, and around 6,000 people competed online and some 300,000 people viewed the event. It was a different kind of Urdd, of course.
And, yes, there are problems, but there have also been positives emerging from this, where we are now perhaps able to use those experiences as we move to the future. Of course, there are problems, but there are also positives to have emerged from this. There are groups, such as the Wales Federation of Young Farmers Clubs, who have been very, very active throughout this period of COVID, helping people out, particularly in rural areas. So, people have stepped into the breach during this period, and it's also provided opportunities for the Welsh language to shine in that context.
Carwyn.
Carwyn.
I ddilyn ar hwnna, felly, gaf i ofyn ynglŷn ag impact beth sydd wedi digwydd ar ein cymunedau Cymraeg eu hiaith, yn enwedig yn y Gymru wledig? Unwaith eto, oes yna ryw fath o asesiad ynglŷn â pha fath o impact sydd wedi bod ar y cymunedau hynny? A pha fath o gymorth ydy'r Llywodraeth yn bwriadu ei roi iddyn nhw er mwyn eu helpu nhw drwy'r cyfnod hwn?
Following up on that, may I ask about the impact of what's happening on our Welsh-speaking communities, particularly in rural Wales? Once again, have you carried out any kind of assessment of what impact there's been on those communities? And what kind of support does the Government intend to provide to them to help them through this period?
Wel, mae cymunedau, wrth gwrs, wedi bod yn dioddef ar hyd a lled y wlad. Wrth gwrs, mae yna broblemau economaidd, ac os ŷch chi'n ystyried, er enghraifft, sut mae'r Llywodraeth wedi camu i mewn i helpu'r diwydiant amaeth—mae wedi gwario bron i £1 miliwn i helpu'r diwydiant amaeth, ac rŷn ni'n gwybod bod tua 45 y cant o'r bobl sy'n gweithio yn y byd amaeth yn siarad Cymraeg. Felly, mae hwnna i gyd yn helpu, ond dŷn nhw ddim yn bethau sydd ar wahân.
Mae yna bethau eraill sydd wedi bod yn digwydd, unwaith eto, sydd yn gallu digwydd ar-lein. So, os ŷch chi'n ystyried rhywbeth fel eisteddfod, mae Eisteddfod yr Urdd gyda ni, ond mae hefyd yr Eisteddfod Genedlaethol. Beth ddigwyddodd yn fanna oedd eu bod nhw wedi trefnu Eisteddfod Amgen, felly roedd e i gyd ar-lein, unwaith eto, ac roedd tua 4 miliwn o argraffiadau ar Facebook, Twitter a YouTube dros gyfnod o fisoedd. Felly, unwaith eto, os ŷch chi'n edrych ar y gynulleidfa, roedd y gynulleidfa, os rhywbeth, yn fwy na pe byddai hi jest wedi cael ei chynnal mewn cae. Felly, mae yna bethau positif, unwaith eto, rŷn ni'n gallu eu gwneud.
Mentrau iaith, wedyn—maen nhw ar hyd y lled y wlad—wrth gwrs, rŷn ni wedi bod yn parhau i ariannu'r rheini. Maen nhw wedi dioddef, i raddau, achos eu bod nhw ddim wedi gallu cynnal, er enghraifft, gweithgareddau i blant, clybiau drama a dawns a phethau, a boreau coffi. Felly, mae peth o'u harian nhw hefyd wedi cael ei gyfyngu, ond mae'r ffaith eu bod nhw'n dal i fod yna yn eu cymunedau dwi'n meddwl yn help aruthrol.
Well, communities have been suffering the length and breadth of the nation. Of course, there are economic problems, and if you consider, for example, how the Government has stepped in to support the agriculture industry—it's spent almost £1 million in order to support the agricultural industry, and we know that some 45 per cent of people working in agriculture are Welsh speakers. So, all of that helps, but they are not separate issues.
There are other things that have been happening, which, once again, can happen online. If you consider something like an eisteddfod, well, we have Eisteddfod yr Urdd but also the National Eisteddfod, and what happened there was that they organised Eisteddfod Amgen, which was all online, once again, and there were some 4 million impressions on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube and so on over a period of months. So, if you look at the audience, if anything, the audience was greater than it would've been had it been held traditionally in an Eisteddfod field. So, there are positive things that we can do.
If you look at the mentrau iaith—they're active across the country—of course, we have continued to fund them. They have suffered to a certain extent, because they haven't been able to stage clubs for children, drama clubs, dance and so on, and coffee mornings. So, some of their income has been limited, but the fact that they are still there and active in their communities I think is a huge help.
Diolch. Carwyn.
Thank you. Carwyn.
Diolch, Gweinidog. Gaf i felly ofyn ym mha ffordd y byddwch chi, fel Gweinidog, yn sicrhau bod yr iaith Gymraeg yn rhan ganolog o'r cynllun adnewyddu economaidd? Achos, wrth gwrs, rŷn ni'n moyn sicrhau bod yr iaith yn cael ei helpu ac yn cael ei gweld fel ffactor pwysig dros ben yn yr adnewyddiad economaidd hynny. Fe glywon ni wrth Gomisiynydd y Gymraeg a dywedodd e ei bod hi'n hanfodol o bwysig i sicrhau dyfodol defnydd yr iaith. Beth, felly, yw'ch ymateb chi fel Gweinidog?
Thank you, Minister. May I therefore ask how you, as Minister, will ensure that the Welsh language is a central part of the economic recovery plan? Because we do, of course, want to ensure that the Welsh language is promoted and is seen as an extremely important factor in that economic recovery. We heard from the Welsh Language Commissioner and he said that it was crucially important to ensure the future use of the language. So, what's your response, as Minister, to that?
Diolch yn fawr. Un o'r pethau rŷn ni wedi'i wneud, jest i gysylltu'ch cwestiwn blaenorol gyda'r cwestiwn yma, yw ein bod ni wedi cynnal arolwg cymunedol i ofyn i bobl beth yw effaith COVID-19 ar eu cymunedau nhw, ac felly beth sydd angen inni edrych arno. Felly, rŷn ni'n ceisio sicrhau ein bod ni'n gwybod beth sy'n digwydd ar lawr gwlad, a dwi ddim yn gwybod amdanoch chi, ond os ŷch chi wedi eich clymu i mewn i unrhyw rwydweithiau Cymraeg, mi fyddwch chi wedi derbyn e-bost yn gofyn i chi sut mae COVID wedi dylanwadu ar y ffordd rŷch chi'n byw trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg.
Jest o ran ailadeiladu, jest i fod yn glir, mae'r Gymraeg yn cael ystyriaeth lawn wrth inni ddod allan o'r pandemig, a dyw e ddim yn edrych fel ein bod ni'n dod allan yn fuan iawn. Yn y ddogfen, mae yn nodi y byddwn ni yn diogelu cadernid ein cymunedau a'n rhwydweithiau Cymraeg, gan fwrw ymlaen â'n hymrwymiadau i gynyddu nifer y bobl sy'n dysgu ac yn defnyddio'r iaith. Felly, mae hwnna'n rhan ohoni.
Ar ben hynny, wrth gwrs, mae gen i gyngor partneriaeth. Beth rŷn ni wedi'i wneud gyda'r cyngor partneriaeth, sy'n rhoi cyngor i fi ar ble y dylwn i fod yn mynd nesaf o ran cyrraedd y filiwn—rŷn ni wedi sefydlu is-grwpiau i edrych ar coronafeirws y tu mewn i'r grwpiau hynny. Felly, maen nhw yn mynd ati ar hyn o bryd i edrych ar gymunedau, ar yr economi, ar addysg ac ati, ac felly mae gyda ni bobl sydd yn arbenigwyr yn y maes hefyd yn ein helpu ni trwy hyn.
Mae'r bwrdd crwn hefyd gen i. Felly, dwi wedi sefydlu bwrdd crwn i ddatblygu'r economi, a dwi'n gwahodd pobl o lywodraeth leol, arweinwyr llywodraeth leol yng nghadarnleoedd y Gymraeg, i ddod ynghyd i drafod sut rŷn ni'n adeiladu'r economi, achos mae'r cysylltiad yna rhwng yr economi a'r iaith yn hollbwysig yn fy ystyriaeth i.
Thank you very much. One of the things that we have done, just to link this question with your previous question, is to have carried out a community survey to ask people what the impacts of COVID-19 have been on their communities and what we need to consider. So, we are seeking to ensure that we know what's happening on the ground. I don't know about you, but if you're involved with any Welsh language networks, you will have received an e-mail asking you how COVID has influenced the way you live your life through the medium of Welsh.
Just in terms of rebuilding, just to be clear, the Welsh language is given full consideration as we emerge from the pandemic, and it doesn't look like we'll be coming out of it very soon. In the document, it does note that we will safeguard the resilience of our Welsh language communities and networks whilst carrying out our commitments to increase the number of people using the Welsh language. So, that is part of the picture.
And in addition to that, I, of course, have a partnership council, and what we've done with the partnership council, which is there to advise me on what we should be doing next in terms of reaching that target of 1 million Welsh speakers, is to establish sub-groups to look at coronavirus. So, they are currently looking at communities, the economy, education and so on, and so we do have specialists in the field assisting us through this.
I also have a round-table. So, I've established a round-table to develop the economy, and I do invite people from local government and leaders of local government, indeed from the Welsh speaking heartlands, in order to come together to discuss how we can build the economy, because that link between the economy and the language is so crucially important to me.
Diolch yn fawr, Gweinidog. Unrhyw beth pellach, Carwyn?
Thank you, Minister. Anything else, Carwyn?
Na, mae'n iawn, diolch.
No, that's fine, thank you.
Jest cyn dwi'n gofyn i John Griffiths ddod mewn, Gweinidog, roedd diddordeb mawr gyda fi yn yr arolwg roeddech chi wedi sôn eich bod chi wedi cynnal. Oes yna fodd ichi rannu canlyniadau yr arolwg yna gyda'r pwyllgor? Byddai hynny o ddiddordeb mawr i ni, os yw hynny'n bosibl.
Just before I invite John Griffiths to come in, Minister, I was very interested in the survey that you mentioned. Could you share the findings of that with the committee? That would be of great interest to us, if that were possible.
Wel, dwi'n siŵr bydd cyfle i wneud hynny, ond fel dwi'n dweud, mae e wedi mynd at filoedd o bobl, felly efallai bydd angen rhyw fath o synthesis arnoch chi yn lle eich bod chi'n cael ymateb gan bob un.
I'm sure there'll be an opportunity to do that, but as I say, it's gone to thousands of people, so you may need some sort of synthesis rather than receiving all of the responses.
Byddwn ni ddim yn gallu defnyddio pob canlyniad unigol, ond byddai fe'n dda gweld os oes yna—. Dwi'n siŵr y byddwch chi'n gwneud dadansoddiad o'r patrymau sydd yn dod allan ohono fe.
No, we couldn't use every individual response, but it would be good to see. I'm sure you will carry out an analysis of the patterns emerging from that.
Wrth gwrs. Unwaith mae'n barod, mi gewch chi hynny.
Of course. Once it's ready, we can share that with you.
Byddai hynny'n grêt, diolch yn fawr. So, gwnaf ofyn i John Griffiths ddod mewn nawr. John.
That would be excellent, thank you. So, I'll invite John Griffiths now to ask his questions. John.
Diolch yn fawr, Cadeirydd. Minister, I have some questions on funding support for the organisations that are key to the language here in Wales, and by extension, of course, their workforces. You've mentioned already that a lot of organisations have suffered because, obviously, their membership has been affected by COVID, and that the activities that they would normally hold that generate a great deal of their income have been badly affected. Welsh Government has provided some support for key organisations like the Urdd and the National Eisteddfod, mentrau iaith, the National Centre for Learning Welsh and so on. I wonder if you could tell us a little bit more about what you see in the terms of the future challenges—what other financial support, over and above what they've already received, they might expect as we move forward.
Wel, mae sefyllfa ariannol pob un o'n partneriaid ni yn amrywio yn fawr iawn, a beth sy'n drueni, mewn gwirionedd, yw bod y sefydliadau yna, sydd wedi gwneud beth rŷn ni wedi gofyn iddyn nhw wneud—hynny yw, i leihau eu dibyniaeth nhw ar y wladwriaeth—nhw sydd wedi dioddef mwyaf. Ac felly, os ydych chi'n edrych ar rywbeth fel yr Urdd, maen nhw wedi gwneud gwaith anhygoel dros y blynyddoedd yn datblygu eu hochr commercial nhw a thrwy gael eu harian nhw, eu refeniw nhw, o'r gwersylloedd, er enghraifft. Wrth gwrs, roedd hwnna wedi cael ei dorri dros nos, ac felly maen nhw wedi bod mewn sefyllfa enbyd, a dyna pam rŷn ni wedi rhoi, dwi'n meddwl, lot o gefnogaeth i'r Urdd—£3.1 miliwn i'r Urdd. Ac mae hwnna wedi rhoi cyfle iddyn nhw nid jest i orffen y gwaith o ailadeiladu'r canolfannau yn Llangrannog a Glan-llyn, ond hefyd wedi rhoi cyfle iddyn nhw ddechrau ar Pentre Ifan, ac, wrth gwrs, mae hwnna wedi helpu i gefnogi 180 o swyddi.
Nawr, mae'n anochel y bydd mwy o broblemau yn y dyfodol, ac, wrth gwrs, yr hiraf mae'r canolfannau yna wedi cau, y mwy o broblemau ariannol fydd yna. Ac, wrth gwrs, mi fydd hi'n anodd inni fel Llywodraeth jest i gario ymlaen i roi arian i mewn i sefyllfa heb wybod ble mae'r diwedd yn mynd i ddod. Ond, wrth gwrs, rŷn ni wedi gwneud ein gorau i sefyll ar eu pwys nhw hyd yn hyn, ac mae gen i drafodaeth gyda phennaeth yr Urdd yn ystod yr wythnos nesaf.
Jest o ran yr Eisteddfod Genedlaethol, roedd yna achlysur pryd yr oedd e'n edrych fel y byddai fe'n anodd iawn i'r Eisteddfod Genedlaethol barhau, a phe na byddai'r Llywodraeth wedi camu i mewn, ni fyddai yna Eisteddfod Genedlaethol yn y dyfodol. Wrth gwrs, mae hwnna'n rhan mor bwysig o'n hunaniaeth ni, o bwy ydyn ni fel cenedl. Felly, mae'n rhaid inni roi blaenoriaeth i rai pethau, ac mae hwn yn rhywbeth roedden ni wedi ei ystyried yn bwysig inni roi blaenoriaeth iddo.
Os ŷch chi'n edrych ar rywbeth fel y Ganolfan Dysgu Cymraeg Cenedlaethol, dros nos roedden nhw wedi gorfod stopio dysgu pobl mewn dosbarthiadau. Nawr, o ganlyniad i hynny, roedd yna ffordd iddyn nhw arbed arian, ac felly roedd hwnna'n gyfle inni gymryd arian oddi wrthyn nhw, achos, wrth gwrs, roedd e'n amhosibl iddyn nhw wario'r arian yna ar y pryd. Ond beth maen nhw wedi ei wneud yw cymryd y cyfle hefyd i addasu beth maen nhw'n ei wneud a gwneud lot mwy o waith ar-lein, ac mae hwnna wedi helpu dysgwyr i ddysgu yn ddigidol ac o bell, ac maen nhw wedi gweld cynnydd mawr yn nifer y bobl sydd yn dysgu fanna.
Ond hefyd, wrth gwrs, rhan bwysig o waith y Ganolfan Dysgu Cymraeg Cenedlaethol oedd y project Cymraeg Gwaith, lle'r oedd pobl yn mynd i mewn i weithleoedd ac yn dysgu Cymraeg. Un o'r grwpiau oedd yn elwa o hynny oedd y bobl oedd yn gweithio yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd ni, ac, wrth gwrs, dros nos, roedd yn rhaid iddyn nhw ganolbwyntio yn llwyr ar daclo coronafeirws. Felly, dros nos, doedd hi ddim yn bosib iddyn nhw roi'r gwersi yna a dyna pam oedd hi'n bosib inni gymryd peth o'r arian yna nôl, sydd wedi ein galluogi ni i roi'r arian yna i'r mudiadau oedd mewn trafferth ariannol.
Well, the financial situation of each of our partners varies a great deal, and what's a shame is that those organisations who have done what we asked of them, namely to reduce their reliance on the state, they have suffered most. So, if you look at something like the Urdd, they have done incredible work over the years in developing their commercial activities and by making that revenue from the camps—that was cut overnight. So, they have been in a terrible situation, and that is why we have given a great deal of support to the Urdd—£3.1 million for the Urdd. That's given them an opportunity not just to complete the work of rebuilding their residential centres in Llangrannog and Glan-llyn, but has also given them an opportunity to start the work on Pentre Ifan, and, of course, that has assisted in supporting 180 posts.
Now, it's inevitable that there will be further problems in the future, and the longer those residential centres remain closed, then the more financial problems the Urdd will face. And it will be difficult for us as a Government just to continue to provide funding without knowing where the endpoint may be. But we have done our very best to stand shoulder to shoulder with them so far, and I do have a discussion scheduled with the head of the Urdd during the next week.
Just in terms of the National Eisteddfod, there was a time when it appeared that the National Eisteddfod would find it very difficult to survive, and if the Government hadn't stepped in, there would have been no National Eisteddfod in the future. Of course, this is such an important part of our identity and of who we are a nation. So, we do have to prioritise certain things, and this is something that we considered to be a priority.
Now, if you look at something like the National Centre for Learning Welsh, they had to cease face-to-face training in classrooms overnight. Now, as a result of that, there was a means for them to make savings, so that was an opportunity for us to reclaim some funding, because it was impossible for them to actually spend it at that time. What they have done is to take the opportunity to adapt their operations and to do a lot more of their work online, and that has helped learners to learn digitally and remotely, and they've seen a great increase in the number of people learning.
But also, of course, an important part of the National Centre for Learning Welsh's work was the Cymraeg Gwaith project, where people went into workplaces and taught Welsh. One of the groups that benefited from that was, of course, the people working in our health service, and, of course, overnight, they had to focus entirely on tackling coronavirus. So, overnight, it became impossible for them to provide those lessons, and that's why we could reclaim some of those funds, and that enabled us to provide that funding to those organisations facing financial difficulties.
Diolch. John.
You said earlier, Minister, that there had been particular difficulties in areas of Wales where the language is relatively weak, given that the activities that couldn't take place right across Wales were particularly significant in those areas, perhaps where there aren't many other opportunities to use the language in a social setting. Will future funding arrangements address those specific issues in those parts of Wales?
I'm assuming, John, you're referring to areas like yours where there's been a huge increase in the interest from the local communities in speaking Welsh, including from yourself, John.
Diolch yn fawr. Wrth gwrs, beth sydd gyda ni yw mudiadau ar lawr gwlad sydd yn gallu helpu, ac felly mae gyda ni, er enghraifft, fentrau iaith sydd yn gallu helpu mewn ardaloedd fel Casnewydd ac mae'r rheini yn dal i fynd, yn dal i ffynnu ac yn dal i roi cyfle i bobl ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg. Nawr, mae lot o'r gweithgaredd yna wedi mynd ar-lein, ond mae'r rheini yn dal i fodoli.
Thank you. Of course, what we have is organisations on the ground that can assist, so we do have the mentrau iaith, for example, that can assist in areas such as Newport, and they are still active, still prospering and still giving people opportunities to use the Welsh language. Now, much of that activity is provided online, but they do continue to exist.
I was thinking, as well, of some of the Valleys communities where festivals and events weren't able to go ahead, and they were so important in fostering the language in terms of that social use, that focus on the language.
Dwi'n meddwl bod hwnna yn hollbwysig. Beth ŷn ni wedi ei wneud nawr yw sicrhau bod yna gyfleoedd i blant yn arbennig ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg. Mi wnaethom ni'r gwaith o sicrhau bod plant a rhieni plant yn gwybod bod yna gyfleoedd iddyn nhw wrando ar y Gymraeg ar-lein. Os ydych chi'n edrych ar S4C, mae miloedd o bobl yn ychwanegol wedi bod yn gwylio'r sianel yn arbennig fel sianel ddigidol. Felly, mae'r gwaith maen nhw wedi ei wneud yr arloesol dros ben, ac mae yna gyfleoedd wedyn i bobl sydd yn byw yn ein cymunedau ni yn y Cymoedd, ond hyd yn oed bobl y tu hwnt i Gymru, mae cyfle iddyn nhw hefyd ddefnyddio a gwrando ar Gymraeg.
I think that is crucially important. What we have done is to ensure that there are opportunities, particularly for children, to use the Welsh. We did ensure that children and their parents were aware that there were opportunities for them to listen to Welsh online. If you look at S4C, there are thousands of additional people who have been viewing the channel digitally. So, the work that they have done has been very innovative indeed, and there are then opportunities for people who do live in Valleys communities, but even outwith Wales, there are opportunities for people to use and hear the Welsh language.
Diolch, Gweinidog. John.
Thank you, Minister. John.
Minister, we heard as well from the Welsh Language Commissioner that there's a need to better promote and signpost societies and organisations within the Welsh language sector to available support. Is that something that you're aware of as an issue and, if so, how will it be addressed?
Mae cysylltiad agos iawn gyda ni gyda'n partneriaid. Rŷn ni'n siarad gyda nhw yn aml, rŷn ni'n eu cyfeirio nhw'n uniongyrchol at ble mae yna arian ar gael. Wrth gwrs, mae lot o arian wedi bod ar gael yn ystod y pandemig yma i'r mudiadau yma i fynd ato fe. Felly, er enghraifft, rŷn ni'n gwybod bod yr Urdd yn mynd i wneud cais i ERF 3, rŷn ni'n gwybod bod pobl ar draws yr wlad wedi elwa o'r ERF mewn ffyrdd eraill, ac mae lot o bobl wedi manteisio ar y ffaith bod ffyrlo ar gael. Felly, rŷn ni yn sicr yn rhoi gwybod iddyn nhw yn aml ble mae yna gyfleoedd iddyn nhw, ond rŷn ni'n tueddu gwneud hwnna o ddydd i ddydd, achos ein bod ni gyda chysylltiad mor agos gyda'n partneriaid ni.
We have very close relationships with our partners. We speak to them regularly, we refer them directly to funding sources, and, of course, there has been a great deal of funding available during this pandemic for these organisations. So, for example, we know that the Urdd is going to benefit from ERF 3, we know that people across the country have benefited from ERF in other ways, and a lot of people have benefited from furlough. So, we certainly are regularly signposting them towards those opportunities, but we tend to do that on a day-to-day basis because we do have such close relationships with those partners.
Minister, in terms of the workforce, then, we've heard from the Urdd, the National Eisteddfod and Mentrau Iaith Cymru that there would be substantial job losses in all likelihood, unfortunately. And I think the Urdd, for example, said that when they return to operations post furlough, as it were, then their workforce is likely to be halved. With that sort of background and the importance of the Welsh language and the Welsh-speaking workforce in Wales, will you be making the case for any additional support from Welsh Government to deal with those matters?
Dwi'n meddwl beth mae'n rhaid i ni ei wneud yw cario ymlaen gyda'n nod ni o brif-ffrydio'r Gymraeg. Felly, mae yna gyllidebau ar gael sydd gydag arian, ond efallai lle nad yw'r Gymraeg wedi elwa cymaint ag, efallai, ein bod ni wedi disgwyl. Jest i roi enghraifft i chi, mae'r Urdd wedi gallu gwneud lot o waith gyda mudiadau ifanc, gyda phobl ifanc. Maen nhw'n defnyddio lot o'r arian o'r gwersylloedd i sybsideiddio'r gwaith maen nhw'n ei wneud o ran helpu pobl ifanc. Nawr, achos eu bod nhw wedi, fwy neu lai, cynnal a chadw mudiadau ieuenctid Cymreig trwy eu gwaith nhw, efallai, er enghraifft, nad yw'r arian rŷn ni'n ei roi i fudiadau ieuenctid wedi mynd at y Gymraeg yn y ffordd yna. Efallai fydd yn rhaid i ni bwyso nawr arnyn nhw i helpu allan yn y dyfodol, achos mae'r ffordd y mae'r arian yna wedi dod mewn yn y gorffennol, a'r ffordd mae'r Urdd wedi ein helpu ni yn y sector yna, mae hwnna yn mynd i fod yn fwy o strygl iddyn nhw yn y dyfodol.
I think that what we need to do is to continue with our mainstreaming of the Welsh language. There are budgets available with funding, but the Welsh language may not have benefited as much as we would have expected. Just to give you an example of that, the Urdd has been able to do a lot of work with young people. They use a lot of the income from the residential camps to subsidise the work that they do in helping young people. Now, because they have actually sustained a Welsh youth organisation through their work, perhaps the funding that we give to youth organisations hasn't been used to promote the Welsh language in the same way, and in a way that we should perhaps be pressing for in the future. Because the way that that funding has come in in the past, and the way that the Urdd has helped us specifically in that sector, means that that's going to be more of a struggle for them in the future.
John, unrhyw beth pellach?
John, anything further?
Na, dim diolch.
No thanks.
Jest cyn i ni symud ymlaen o'r maes ynglŷn â'r gweithlu, Gweinidog, roeddech chi'n sôn yn fanna am y gwaith ieuenctid, youth work, i bob pwrpas, mae'r Urdd yn ei wneud. Wrth gwrs, byddwch chi'n ymwybodol iawn fod ffeindio pobl sydd yn medru gwneud y fath yna o waith trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn gallu bod yn her, ac roedd y dystiolaeth a roddwyd i ni yn awgrymu, os byddan nhw'n colli'r bobl gyda'r sgiliau yna, a gan y bydd yna alw yn y dyfodol am y sgiliau yna, y bydd e, efallai, yn anodd, unwaith rŷn ni'n gallu ailagor a gwneud mwy o waith wyneb yn wyneb, er enghraifft—eu bod nhw'n becso na fydd y staff ar gael, ac yr un peth gyda'r mentrau iaith ynglŷn â'r gwaith gofal plant maen nhw'n ei wneud. Oes yna achos am gefnogaeth arbennig i'r mudiadau Cymraeg eu hiaith i gadw eu gweithlu, gan fod y gweithlu yna, yn enwedig tu fas i gymunedau naturiol Cymraeg eu hiaith, yn weithlu lle mae yna lot o alw amdano fe mewn adegau mwy arferol, os licwch chi, a bod posibiliad y byddai'r mudiadau yn eu colli nhw yn gyfan gwbl wrth i ffyrlo ddod i ben?
Just before we move away from the workforce, Minister, you mentioned youth work, and the youth work carried out by the Urdd, and you will be highly aware that finding people who can do that sort of work through the medium of Welsh can be very challenging, and the evidence provided to us suggested that, if they lose those skilled individuals, as there will be demand for those skills in the future, it may be difficult, once we're able to reopen and carry out more activities face to face—they were concerned that the staff won't be available. The same was true of the mentrau iaith in terms of some of their childcare activities. So, is there a case for particular support for Welsh language organisations in order to retain their workforce, because that workforce, particularly outside the naturally Welsh-speaking communities, is in great demand in more normal times, and there is a possibility that those organisations will lose those skills entirely when furlough comes to an end?
Dwi'n meddwl bod yna achos cryf ac, wrth gwrs, y peth olaf rŷn ni eisiau gweld yw colli talent o'r sector. Mae yna gymaint o egni gyda'r Urdd, a dwi'n meddwl mai dyna'r peth sydd mor bwysig gyda nhw. Mae egni gyda nhw i adfywio cymunedau, i sicrhau efallai fod plant sydd ddim wedi ystyried gweithio trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn gweithio trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, yn arbennig os ŷch chi'n meddwl am eu prentisiaethau nhw. Mae ganddyn nhw'r nod o gael 100 o brentisiaethau Cymraeg, ac wrth gwrs mae hwnna nawr yn mynd i fod yn fwy anodd.
Beth sy'n anodd, wrth gwrs, yw bod yna gymaint o sectorau eraill sydd efallai yn yr un sefyllfa. Gallech chi wneud yr un achos o ran rhywun sy'n gweithio mewn maes celfyddydol sydd â thalent arbennig a buasen nhw'n cael eu colli hefyd. Felly, dyna'r broblem—bod cymaint o bobl yn yr un sefyllfa. Mi fyddwn ni'n gwneud yr achos yn yr un ffordd, ond bydd pob adran arall dwi'n siŵr yn gwneud yr achos dros pam y dylem ni gadw ein talent ni a diogelu hynny at y dyfodol.
I think there is a strong case and, of course, the last thing that we want to see is that talent should be lost from the sector. There is so much energy in the Urdd—I think that is what's so important about them. They have that energy to regenerate communities and ensure that children who perhaps wouldn't have considered working through the medium of Welsh do work through the medium of Welsh, particularly if you think of their apprenticeships programme. They have the aim of establishing 100 Welsh language apprenticeships, and, of course, that will now be more difficult.
But what is difficult, of course, is that there are so many other sectors who may be in the same situation. So, you could perhaps make the same case in terms of someone working in the arts who has particular skills and talents where those skills might also be lost. So, that's the problem—that there are so many people in a similar situation. We will be making the case, as will every other department, I'm sure, as to why we should retain our talent and safeguard that talent for the future.
Diolch yn fawr. Mae hwnna'n ateb positif iawn. Diolch yn fawr iawn ichi, Gweinidog. David Melding.
Thank you very much. That's a very positive response. Thank you, Minister. David Melding.
Diolch yn fawr, Cadeirydd, a bore da, Gweinidog. Minister, I would like just to look at the digital aspect of the challenge. Now, obviously, the digital revolution was moving very rapidly through society and all sorts of traditional work patterns were having to adapt, and there's the Welsh language technology action plan, which I think is from 2017, but please correct me if I'm wrong. But given now that COVID has accelerated a lot of this increased demand on different approaches to work, is there a need to revisit that action plan and, if so, how will you do that?
Diolch, David. I think, actually, the action plan was slightly later than that, when it was published, but I think the fact that we're almost ahead of the game on this meant that people were then already in a situation where they could benefit from some of the work that we've already done. One of the things that we've tried to do during the pandemic is to acknowledge the fact that we need more people to be using Welsh online, and that's why, for example, right at the beginning of the pandemic, we allowed Cysgliad, which is a resource that allows you to correct your Welsh, to correct your spelling and things, to be given for free to individuals and to schools, and to small businesses throughout Wales. That means that there was an opportunity for people to use technology and not to have the fear of getting some things incorrect. There's a real lack of confidence amongst a lot of Welsh speakers to actually write things in Welsh, and so this Cysgliad gives them the opportunity to check that.
Another thing is the fact that we're having this meeting on Zoom today, and we're unable to have it on Teams because it's not possible to have translation facilities on Teams. The technology doesn't exist on Teams, whereas it does on Zoom. So, we've been in close correspondence with Microsoft to see if they can develop technology so that there is a facility to have bilingual meetings on Teams. And, of course, we've made the case to them that this wouldn't just be good for Welsh; it would be a fantastic facility for them commercially all around the globe. We've had a really positive response from them, so we're keeping on with that pressure.
The other thing, of course, is we've asked the Canolfan Dysgu Cymraeg Genedlaethol to think about new ways of helping people to learn Welsh during the pandemic, and there has been a significant increase in the number of people who are learning Welsh. And, of course, one of the benefits is that if, for example, you were in a remote part of Wales, where the course wasn't the course you wanted because you were on a different level, you're now able to join up with a different course in a different part of the country. So, actually, the flexibility it gives is extremely useful. And I'm really pleased also that they've now developed a partnership with Say Something in Welsh, which is a highly successful commercial model, and so marrying those two groups together I hope will bring a sharper focus. And, of course, Say Something in Welsh was pretty much all digital, so there are real opportunities for them to share resources now.
I think that's a perfectly fair answer, as is your statement that the digital action plan basically already prepared you for many of these challenges, although obviously no-one would have foreseen at that time that a pandemic would come along and bring its own necessities to shift a lot of additional activity online, if at all possible. I was just probing to see if there's even deeper reflections on what's been possible, which would fit into your international strategy, for instance, like how successful was that part of the Eisteddfod that could get online, and should we building on that so it's a worldwide brand and available. I suppose that's what I was exploring—whether there are now opportunities that we didn't foresee before the pandemic.
I think you're absolutely right, and the fact is that's already happening; we almost don't need to promote it. You look at the figures—there's no way all of those people were watching the Eisteddfod from within Wales. That was an international system and people were tapping into that in a way that the Eisteddfod has never been online before in quite the same way. There were opportunities for people to listen to music, to literature, to lectures in a way where previously they'd have to travel from the other side of the world to hear that. I think the Eisteddfod is going to radically change as a result of this. And it's not just them. One of the programmes that we've helped to develop is called AM—it's an app that is used, and it's really trying to promote content. So, we've got to be careful to distinguish between the technology and the content. I don't think it's up to Government to create content. I think that's probably—. We have to be careful about where those—. Our job is to facilitate the technology to allow the content to happen, so the AM platform is a platform where we're encouraging others to put Welsh language content online, and that is something that is already having international reach. One of the other things we're doing now is to press ahead with trying to get voice recognition through the medium of Welsh. I think that, again, could be a huge step forward, and we're pressing on with that kind of work through the Welsh language technology plan.
Thank you. As an irascible old Tory I certainly agree that Government shouldn't be providing content in these artistic areas. That's something I would find more than chilling. So, I agree with the distinction you're making there. But it does bring me on to this point of how you facilitate the technology, and you've given some examples where you've brought pressure to bear. We have heard more generally that the particular challenge has actually been the lack of Welsh language digital experience, because shifting onto an online platform of some form is a highly skilled activity itself, and that's quite apart from the content issue. And I just wonder what the Government's role has been there, because, traditionally, as a facilitator of increasing skills and sharing best practice, that certainly has been seen as a legitimate role of Government. We have heard from some witnesses that have developed best practice, and from those that have not been able to find it, that perhaps we need more sharing mechanisms, so that best practice becomes embedded and becomes quite common. That's the desire. So, are you looking at things like that about how we do get innovative practices, and therefore build up the Welsh language digital experience so that people have that available to them?
I think you're absolutely right, and we're trying to create the space for that to happen, and to encourage it to happen. We do have to distinguish between content provision and technology itself, but we are providing some support for specific sectors. So, if you look at something like the Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol, for example, they've been trying to develop packages that will help apprentices, for example, work through the medium of Welsh, making sure that they have the right vocabulary, making sure that they know how to use digital technology to help them progress within their apprenticeship. This is particularly true for areas like health and care, and the early years. And so there's a whole technology there that we can use to promote and to help people who are on those courses to use Welsh. As I say, Say Something in Welsh, and, I think, the leadership of the canolfan ddysgu—the way that they've switched to online has been really important. It's too early to say exactly how it's going to settle in future. It may be that teaching online is the new norm. We're not sure yet, and it will be interesting to see how this shakes out. But, also, it's worth noting that we do plough about £3.1 million into educational resources for children to use through the medium of Welsh, and most of that now is digital or through apps, as well as on paper. And the resource on places like Hwb, if you look at that, is quite considerable.
Minister, it's interesting you raise the issue of materials for apprenticeship courses. The Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol has actually identified this as a key area where we need to provide more, because the resources are quite bare at the moment. So, how far along that pathway are we to enabling that part of workplace learning, which is critical—obviously, younger people are amongst the best demographic now for Welsh opportunities—to provide them with the materials that they require? So, have we just started, or do you think we're nearly there in ensuring such materials are available?
Well, the coleg Cymraeg comes under the remit of the education Minister, but, certainly, I know that the coleg Cymraeg is very anxious to push on with developing this kind of technology, and my guess is that there will be a radical shift now as a result of the way society's changed during this pandemic, so that more of those resources will be online. I think we've got to be realistic though; you can't do everything. So, if we're shifting to that, you've got to drop something else, and, so, it will be interesting to see how these organisations use their independence to determine where their emphasis will be in the future.
And what about—? No doubt you talk to your colleague the education Minister on these matters that are of such huge importance to the Welsh language, but the coleg has called for a national plan to identify and commission new digital resource. Do you think that should be done?
If you're looking at the key sectors like health, and like education, for example, and childcare provision, which are key sectors where we have a shortage of Welsh speakers, effectively, and we want to encourage people to go into those sectors, I think it makes absolute sense for us to increase that digital resource in those areas, and I'm sure that the coleg Cymraeg will be moving in that direction in the future.
I think Rhianon—
Okay. That's not quite answering the question—
David, can I stop you for just a minute? Because Rhianon was wanting to ask a supplementary on that. Then I'll come back to you, David. Rhianon.
Sorry to interrupt that flow. In regard, then, to the new norm that the Minister has mentioned, and the impact with the pandemic in terms of Welsh Government policy and targets in this regard, the focus in terms of the new norm, and the former outreach that was taking place—bearing in mind the Government funding that's going in to, for instance, educational resource—there seem to be many, many organisations that are working. Is there any single interface whereby these organisations can come together to work in a more joined-up approach around this new norm, in terms of our online provision and the digital resource—because there's not much point in everybody working in isolation—or is that happening already?
All of the resources relating to children and to education are published on Hwb, and so that is the interface, if you want—that's where people can see other people's work. Maybe Bethan Webb might like to contribute here.
As the Minister said, the educational materials are all put on Hwb. So, for example, during the continuity of learning plan, the consortia, the schools, Estyn—all the partners—came together to work on these types of materials to help schools with their blended learning and distance learning. I know that my team, for example, were part of the project for Coeden Ddarllen Rhydychen and made that available for key stage 2 learners—over 130 books. So, there has been an increase in digital availability of Welsh language resources and educational resources. But, of course, there's always more work to be done in this area.
If I may just follow that up, Chair, briefly, because I know it's not my section of questions. But in that regard, I'm talking about outside of Hwb and the educational sector—I'm talking about all of the organisations that are working within outreach across the agenda. I'm wondering if there is that capacity or that meeting of minds so that there is a single interface in that regard as well. Thanks.
The department has regular meetings with the key players in relation to the Welsh language. So, we get everybody around the table: we get the Urdd around the table, with S4C, with the Eisteddfod, with the mentrau iaith. We have them all around the table on a regular basis. We pick different themes and we make sure that that cross-fertilisation happens and that they can learn from each other and that they don't duplicate. So, that kind of cross-fertilisation and that interface does happen on a very regular basis and has been happening during the pandemic as well—online, of course.
Thank you. I'll bring David Melding back in.
Just a final focused question, then, Minister. You did refer earlier to the canolfan dysgu Cymraeg having a—I was going to say 'cut', but I don't think it's terribly fair to term it as that—their budget reduced by £1.5 million simply because they couldn't spend it on the residential sector anymore. But their chief executive has said that they hope that is not going to be permanent and that that will have an impact if it is. And I just wonder, when you anticipate the assessment you're going to have of the centre—presumably there'll still be this demand for residential provision, but also there will be an increased capacity to deliver online. So, that seems to me likely to lead to more demands for governmental grant support. Is that something you anticipate?
I think the truth is, we don't know where this is going to settle. We don't know if the move to online learning is going to be something that the vast majority of people will want to do or whether people will go back to classroom learning. And so I guess it's too early for us to make that assessment at this point. This is not an insignificant sum that we give to the canolfan ddysgu. I think one of the great things about them though is that it's a real centre of excellence for language learning. One of the things we're keen to do is to take that expertise and to perhaps see if we can use it more readily to help develop better teaching in relation to children in school. Because I do think that there's still an issue there. But they do have this expertise, they are building up these resources now and there's no reason why we couldn't use those resources and adapt them for schools as well.
Anything further, David?
No. Diolch yn fawr.
Jest cyn i ni adael y maes yma, Weinidog, clywsom ni hefyd yn y dystiolaeth bod mynediad at bethau ar-lein ddim yn hawdd i bawb: mae yna bobl sydd heb y sgiliau. Ac roedd yn ddiddorol clywed nad jest pobl hŷn sydd yn ei ffeindio’n anodd—mae yna hefyd bobl sydd yn methu fforddio'r offer, ac yn enwedig pan fo gyda chi sefyllfa, efallai, lle mae rhieni'n gweithio gartref, plant yn trio dysgu neu gymryd rhan mewn gweithgareddau ar-lein, ac efallai dim ond un neu ddwy ddyfais sydd yn y tŷ. A hefyd mae yna issues gyda band eang yn enwedig, sydd yn effeithio yn enwedig ar gymunedau Cymraeg eu hiaith. Ydych chi wedi bod yn cynnal trafodaethau gyda Gweinidogion eraill yn y meysydd perthnasol er mwyn trio sicrhau bod, fel mae digwyddiadau—? Fel rŷch chi newydd ei ddweud wrth David Melding, dŷn ni ddim yn gwybod ble mae hyn yn mynd i gwympo; dŷn ni ddim yn gwybod i ba raddau mae rhai o'r newidiadau yma'n newidiadau parhaol. Wel, os maen nhw yn bennu lan i fod yn barhaol, mae wedyn yn bwysig iawn, iawn ein bod ni'n cau'r bwlch digidol, onid oes—ein bod ni'n sicrhau bod pawb yn gallu cael mynediad at yr adnoddau sydd ar-lein.
Just before we leave that particular area, Minister, we also heard in evidence that online access isn't easy for everyone: there are people who don't have the necessary skills. And it was interesting to hear that it's not just older people who have difficulties—there are also people who can't afford the equipment, particularly when you have a situation where parents are working from home, children are trying to learn from home or participate in online activity and there might only be one or two devices in that home. And also there are issues around broadband, which particularly has an impact on our Welsh-speaking communities. So, have you been having any discussions with other Ministers in the relevant areas in order to seek to ensure that—? As you've just told David Melding, we don't know where this is going to end and we don't know to what extent some of these changes are permanent, but if they are permanent then it's very important that we narrow that digital divide and that we do ensure that everybody can access the online resources available.
Rwy'n meddwl bod chi'n eithaf reit, ac, wrth gwrs, mae'r ffaith ein bod ni fel Llywodraeth wedi rhoi cymaint o filiynau i fewn i sicrhau bod band eang ar gael i fwy o bobl, er dyw hi ddim yn ddyletswydd arnom ni fel Llywodraeth i wneud hynny, er ei bod hi'n ddyletswydd ar y Llywodraeth Brydeinig i'w wneud e, rŷm ni'n meddwl bod e mor bwysig, rŷm ni wedi rhoi arian—lot fawr o arian, miliynau ar filiynau—i sicrhau bod band eang ar gael yn fwy. Mae yna yn dal, fel rŷch chi'n dweud, canolfannau lle dyw e ddim ar gael, felly mae'n bwysig ein bod ni'n parhau i wthio ymlaen gyda hynny.
Wrth gwrs, mae lot o offer wedi cael ei roi, yn enwedig i blant, yn ystod y pandemig yma i sicrhau bod cyfle gyda nhw i ddysgu o gartref. Un o'r rhesymau dwi wedi gorfod dod i mewn i'r swyddfa heddiw yw achos bod tri ohonom ni yn y tŷ heddiw yn gweithio o gartref ac doedd y band eang ddim yn ddigon mawr inni i gyd. Felly, wrth gwrs, bydd yna broblemau gan lot yn y dyfodol.
Y peth arall, fel roeddech chi'n sôn, yw sgiliau, ac un o'r pethau dwi'n poeni am yn arbennig yw'r henoed: pryd mae yna gyfle gyda nhw i ddysgu yn ystod y pandemig? Roedd e'n rial drueni achos roedd Merched y Wawr, er enghraifft, ar fin dechrau ymgyrch i helpu pobl i fynd ar-lein, i ddysgu nhw sut i ddefnyddio'r offer ac ati, a wedyn digwyddodd y pandemig, ac mae'n gymaint o drueni na ddigwyddodd hynny cyn i'r pandemig fwrw. Ond, wrth gwrs, rŷm ni'n ymwybodol iawn—. Y drafferth yw mae'n anodd i wneud hynny yng nghanol pandemig. Ond mae'n rhywbeth, wrth gwrs, mae'n rhaid inni ei ystyried ar ôl: pryd fydd yna gyfle i ni helpu'r henoed ac ati.
I think you're entirely right, and the fact that we as a Government have pumped so many millions of pounds into ensuring that broadband is available for more people, although it's not our duty as a Government to do that, it's a UK Government responsibility, but we do think it's so very important that we have provided a great deal of funding—millions upon millions—in order to ensure that broadband is more widely available. There are still notspots, as you say, but it is important that we continue to push that forward.
Of course, equipment is an issue. A great deal of equipment has been provided particularly to children during this pandemic in order to ensure that they have an opportunity to learn from home. One of the reasons I've had to come into the office today is that there are three of us in the house today working from home and the broadband wasn't broad enough for us all. Of course, there will be many people facing such problems in the future.
And the other thing you mentioned was skills, and one of the things that I'm particularly concerned about is older people: when have they had an opportunity to learn during the pandemic? It was a real shame because Merched y Wawr, for example, were about to start a campaign to assist people to go online and to train them how to use that equipment, and then the pandemic struck, and it's such a shame that that couldn't have happened prior to the pandemic. But we are, of course, very aware of these issues but the difficulty is it's difficult to address those issues in the midst of a pandemic. But it's something that we will have to consider after the pandemic in terms of helping the older people and so on.
Diolch yn fawr, Gweinidog. Rhianon.
Thank you very much, Minister. Rhianon.
Thank you, Chair. We've partially covered some of the work of the sub-groups of the Welsh language partnership council, but can the Minister extrapolate a little bit on the work of these sub-groups? In particular you've talked about the forum and the meeting with them that you have regularly. So, what happens next from those interactions with the sub-groups? Where does that go?
Okay. So, we've got lots of different groups that we work with. This is really a group of experts that we go to to help us with fulfilling our strategy for Cymraeg 2050, and there are three themes that we focus on: making sure that people can develop their use of the language; use of the language is the second thing; and then making sure that the facilities in the environment exist for that to happen, and that, of course, touches on things like the economy and culture and technical issues as well. So, the fact is that the pandemic—. Our vision is to create a million speakers by 2050. There's a long-term strategy, but, clearly, during that strategy you're going to have to adapt a bit to the circumstances, and this is something that's now been thrown at us and we will have to, in our next five-year plan, see how we're going to adapt to meet our challenges under the new circumstances. So, I think the fact that we'd already noted the importance of digital technology within our strategy actually vindicates the fact that we knew society was going to change in that direction, so we're ahead of the game. If we hadn't developed it before, we'd have had to develop it now. I think there's a real need for us to give support to families who come from non-Welsh speaking homes who send their children to Welsh-speaking schools. I think we've got to boost their confidence, make sure that they understand that they're not going to be at a disadvantage if they are not able—if they lose as much schooling as they did. I think the fact that the workplace is likely to change significantly—you know, the fact, you're all working at home is something that I think we're going to have to get used to. So, where are the chances and the opportunities then for people to speak Welsh? Because that closes off the opportunity for many people.
And so what we've done is we've split it up into three different sections. One of them looks at the economy, and one of the things we're keen to do there is to make sure that we really mainstream the work that we're trying to do, and make sure that the different departments of Government understand their responsibility in relation to the Welsh language, which is why, for example, we had Lee Waters from the economy department to attend the roundtable meeting we've held in the past, and Rhodri Llwyd Morgan is leading on that.
On education, Enlli Thomas, who is an expert from Bangor University, she's really looking at what are the different changes we need to do in relation to Welsh-language education over the next 10 years, what are the changes we need to consider there.
And Simon Brooks has focused on communities. And one of the things that has really become much more obvious during this pandemic is the issue of second homes, and that is something that we've been looking at within that group for a while now. Part of the problem—we are desperately looking for what is the best solution to what is unquestionably a problem. It's not just a problem for Welsh-speaking communities, but it is an additional problem, I think, for Welsh-speaking communities. So, we're doing a lot of research into what the answers may be to ensuring that people in those Welsh-speaking heartlands can actually stay there.
So, in that regard, then, you're stating that this is going to inform the next five-year strategy in terms of the sub-groups and potentially Government policy in that regard. So, how, in your view, to sort of summarise, in a sense—how has the pandemic affected Welsh Government policy in the short term, and potentially in the mid and longer term, in regard to Welsh language?
Well, I think it's made us all respond differently. I think we've recognised we're going to have to do a lot more digitally. I think that that is definitely a shift; we need to understand that, if we're going to shift to a more digital form of communication, we need to make sure that the facilities exist—technical facilities exist—to ensure that that is possible and it's easy for people. I still can't tell my Alexa in the morning to put on Radio Cymru, so we need to think about what is it, how do we live in the modern age, and how do we make sure that technology can interact with what is an ancient language.
Okay. Diolch, Chair.
Can I ask Jeremy to come in on that, because Jeremy is an absolute expert on Welsh and technology?
Jeremy.
Diolch. Dwi'n meddwl eich bod chi'n iawn. Dwi'n meddwl ein bod ni'n gorfod edrych ar nid technoleg iaith yn y lle cyntaf ond sut mae technoleg yn mynd i fod yn cael ei ddefnyddio'n gyffredinol yn y byd sy'n dod. Dŷn ni wedi gwneud lot o newidiadau yn barod. Byddwn ni'n cynnal sesiwn fel hon, mae'n siŵr, gyda chi ynglŷn â'r cynllun gweithredu technoleg maes o law, lle gallwn ni drafod yn helaethach beth sy'n digwydd, ond dwi'n meddwl edrych ar ba dechnoleg bynnag sy'n mynd i hwyluso byw, nid jest defnyddio'r iaith yn y dyfodol, a wedyn gweld beth yw lle y Gymraeg yn y dechnoleg honno, a beth rŷn ni'n gorfod ei wneud er mwyn hwyluso hynny.
Thank you. I think you are right. I think we do have to look not at language technology in the first instance, but how technology is going to be used more generally in the future. We've made a number of changes already. We'll be holding a session similar to this on the technology action plan, I'm sure, where we can discuss further what is happening, but we need to look at whatever technology is going to facilitate our lives, not just the use of the language in the future, and then see what the role of the Welsh language is in that technology and what we need to do to facilitate that.
Diolch yn fawr. Byddwn ni fel pwyllgor â diddordeb mawr i weld sut mae'r cynllun yn datblygu, ac efallai byddai fe'n gwneud synnwyr i ni gynnal sesiwn yn benodol ar hyn. A diolch yn fawr i chi, Gweinidog, am yr ymatebion i Rhianon ynglŷn â'r dyfodol. A gaf i jest fynd bach yn bellach a gofyn: allan o'r gwaith dŷch chi'n ei wneud gyda'r tri grŵp dŷch wedi sôn amdanyn nhw, ydych chi'n disgwyl newid y cynllun gweithredu, ac a ydych chi'n disgwyl cyhoeddi cynllun gweithredu at 2050? Ydych chi'n disgwyl cyhoeddi rhywbeth newydd fel byddwn ni, ac, yn fwy pwysig, y cyhoedd a phobl sy'n gweithio yn y maes—fel bod pobl yn gallu gweld fel dŷch chi wedi newid cyfeiriad a beth yw'r cynlluniau nesaf?
Thank you very much. We as a committee would be very interested to see how that plan develops, and perhaps it would make sense for us to hold a session specifically on this. And thank you very much, Minister, for your answers to Rhianon in the future. Can I go just a little further and ask: from the work that you're doing and the three groups that you've mentioned, do you expect to change the action plan, and will you publish an action plan for 2050? Do you intend to make a new publication so that we, and, more importantly, the public and those working in the area, can see how you have changed direction and what your plans are for the future?
Yn sicr, mae yna ymrwymiad tu fewn i 2050 i sicrhau ein bod ni'n cynhyrchu cynllun gweithredu pob pum mlynedd, ac felly mae hwnna, yn amlwg, yn cyd-fynd â term y Senedd. Ac felly mae yna gyfle—bydd yna gyfle, wrth gwrs, i chi edrych ar hwnna unwaith bydd hwnna'n cael ei gyhoeddi. Ond, wrth gwrs, rŷm ni yn y broses, ar hyn o bryd, o ystyried beth yw'r gwahaniaethau bydd yn rhaid inni edrych arnyn nhw ar gyfer y cynllun gweithredu nesaf, ond fydd hwnna ddim yn cael ei gyhoeddi eleni dwi ddim yn meddwl, na.
Yes, there is a commitment within 2050 to ensure that we do produce an action plan every five years, so that clearly corresponds to the Senedd term. So, there will be an opportunity for you to consider that once it's published. But, of course, we are currently in the process of considering what differences we will need to incorporate for the next action plan, but that won't be published this year, I don't think.
Na. So, dŷch chi ddim yn bwriadu newid y cynllun gweithredu presennol, ond byddai newidiadau yn dod i mewn—? Ocê, mae hynny'n helpful. Diolch yn fawr iawn. Oes yna gwestiynau neu bwyntiau eraill gan Aelodau? Rhianon.
So, you don't intend to change the current plan, but plans would be introduced in the future. Okay, that's helpful. Thank you very much. Are there any further questions or points that Members wish to make? Rhianon.
Yes. In regard to the emphasis on the work that was already starting in this regard and the new normal, has there been any interface with the National Digital Exploitation Centre in Ebbw Vale in regard to that resource in regard to Tech Valleys in any of these streams of work? Because we do have those centres of excellence now in Wales, and I think there is a whole industry that we can actually work around in this regard.
The expertise in this field in terms of language and technology is very, very specialised. We're very fortunate to have some experts in the field, and they're based, pretty much, in Bangor University. So, there's a lot of work they've been doing over a number of years in this field. So, I'm not sure if the national digital technology centre in Ebbw Vale would have the kind of specific expertise that we'd be looking for—that is more of a training centre, I think. Well, this is way beyond training, this is really high-tech, massively specialised information and experts that need to be developing this technology.
Jeremy, oeddech chi am ddod mewn yn fanna?
Jeremy, I think you wanted to come in there.
Ie, jest i ategu'r hyn mae'r Gweinidog newydd ei ddweud. Mae yna drafodaeth ar y gweill rhyngom ni â'r ganolfan lan yng Nglyn Ebwy. Mae'r ganolfan newydd—rŷn ni wedi cydweithio â nhw ar safonau, sydd mas i ymgynghoriad gyda nhw nawr, ac mae'r Gymraeg yn rhan lawn o hynny. A byddwn ni'n gweithio gyda nhw i ehangu ar beth maen nhw'n ei wneud, ond o ran gwasanaethau cyhoeddus mae hynny, ac, fel mae'r Gweinidog wedi'i ddweud, mae technoleg iaith a'r cydrannau sy'n gorfod mynd mewn i'r dechnoleg sy'n mynd i gael ei defnyddio—mae honno'n swydd ac yn job fwy arbenigol o dipyn.
Yes, just to echo what the Minister's just said. There is a discussion in the pipeline between ourselves and the centre in Ebbw Vale. We have worked with them on standards, which are out for consultation at the moment, and the Welsh language is a full part of that. And we will work with them to expand on what they do, but that's in terms of public services, and, as the Minister has said, language technology and the components required for that technology—well, that is a more specialist piece of work.
Diolch yn fawr. Diolch yn fawr. Felly, mae hwnna'n dod ag eitem 2 i ben. Diolch yn fawr iawn i'r Gweinidog ac i Bethan Webb a Jeremy Evas am ymuno â ni. Diolch am y wybodaeth dŷch wedi ei rhoi. Dwi'n siŵr y byddwn ni'n dod atoch chi yn gyson, fel mae pethau'n datblygu, i ofyn cwestiynau pellach, a dŷn ni'n edrych ymlaen at weld sut mae'r iaith yn cael ei phrif ffrydio mewn i'r cynllun ail-ddatblygu ar ôl COVID. Byddwn ni, wrth gwrs, fel arfer, yn anfon y trawsgrifiad atoch chi fel eich bod chi'n gallu sicrhau ein bod ni wedi cofnodi'r dystiolaeth i gyd yn gywir. Felly, diolch yn fawr iawn i chi, a dwi'n siŵr fe welwn ni chi i gyd eto cyn bo hir.
Thank you very much. That brings item 2 to a conclusion. Thank you very much to the Minister and to Bethan Webb and Jeremy Evas for joining us. Thank you for the information that you have shared with us. I'm sure that we will approach you regularly, as things develop, to ask further questions on these issues, and we look forward to seeing how the Welsh language is mainstreamed into the recovery process post COVID. Of course, we will send you a transcript as per usual, in order to ensure that the evidence has been recorded accurately. So, thank you very much, and I'm sure we will see you all again very soon.
Gwnaf i symud, felly, i eitem 3 ar yr agenda, sef llythyr gan y llyfrgell genedlaethol. Dŷn ni wedi trafod hyn yn anffurfiol yn y gorffennol, so ydy Aelodau yn hapus jest i nodi'r llythyr nawr, a dŷn ni'n gallu trafod yn y sesiwn breifat beth dŷn ni'n mynd i wneud efo fo? Diolch yn fawr.
I'll move, therefore, to item 3 on the agenda—papers to note. We have a letter from the National Library of Wales. We've discussed this informally previously, so are Members happy to note that letter and we can discuss it in private session? Thank you very much.
Cynnig:
bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42(ix).
Motion:
that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix).
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Felly, dwi'n symud at eitem 4, ac o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.42(ix), dwi'n cynnig ein bod ni'n symud i sesiwn breifat i drafod ymhellach. Ydy Aelodau yn hapus gyda hynny? Dwi'n gweld eich bod chi, felly dwi'n gofyn i'r darlledwyr ddod â'r darllediad i ben.
Therefore, I move to item 4, and I propose that, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix), the committee moves into private session in order to have further discussions. Are Members content? I see that you are, and therefore I would request that the broadcasters bring the broadcasting to a close.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 10:30.
Motion agreed.
The public part of the meeting ended at 10:30.