National Assembly for Wales

Good morning; bore da. I welcome everyone to this virtual meeting of the Petitions Committee. In accordance with Standing Order 34.19, I have determined that the public are excluded from attending this committee meeting in order to protect public health. The meeting is, however, broadcast live on Senedd.tv, and all participants will be joining by video-conference. The meeting is bilingual and translation is available. A Record of Proceedings will also be published. Aside from the procedural adaptations relating to conducting business remotely, all other Standing Order requirements remain in place.

So, one, apologies and substitutions. We have no apologies, as yet. 

New petitions. So, we go to 2.1, P-05-1024, 'For Environmental awareness to be made compulsory and a key module within Schools in Wales for all years (Primary and Secondary Education)'. This petition was submitted by Patricia Noemi Diaz, having collected 141 signatures.

'Environmental Awareness and action as part of the educational framework in Wales would be relevant to the Wellbeing Act and Wales Education Agenda. The petition aims for Welsh Government to consider for all schools in Wales to apply a core module from early years on the Environment encouraging awareness and action. It can be a fundamental initiative which encourages young people to engage in their environment by being educated of the environment and allowing them the opportunity to actively protect it throughout the curricula at each school year.'

Now, a response was received from the Minister for Education on 14 September—in your packs. A research brief has been provided and the petitioner has provided further comments. I invite Members to discuss this petition and any actions you wish the committee to take. Leanne.

Well, given where we are in terms of the development of the new curriculum and the fact that the Children, Young People and Education Committee is scrutinising the legislation, then it would make sense if we could pass this petition on to that committee, and thank the petitioner for their work.

Any other comments? Okay. So, we have a proposal there. Okay, Clerk?

So, we move on to P-05-1030, 'Preventive measures on wireless devices in nurseries and primary schools'. This petition was submitted by Camilla Watts, having collected 55 signatures, and they're calling for the Welsh Parliament

'to urge the Welsh Government to adopt a more stringent limit on the use of wireless devices in nurseries and primary schools....Parents/carers consent must be ensured in advance before WiFi devices are installed/used...Those who decided against WiFi must be provided with a No WiFi zone.'

A response was received from the Minister for Education on 5 October. A research brief has been provided and the petitioner has provided further comments. I invite you to discuss this and any actions you wish to take. Leanne.

The Minister has stated that the advice on this comes from public health authorities, and so it's difficult to see how we can further influence that now. It looks as though the Minister is satisfied that sufficient guidance has been provided to schools, so I think, as a committee, I'm not sure if we can take this any further now.

Okay. Neil.

I'm not sure if there are any—in cities, anyway—any Wi-Fi free zones. It's everywhere, isn't it? So, I'd agree with Leanne.

So, what's your proposal?

To agree with Leanne's proposal.

Okay. Are all Members agreed? Yes? And we welcome Michelle Brown to the committee.

Good morning, everyone.

Morning.

Hello, Michelle.

Hiya.

P-05-1031, 'Inhibit the diversion of Heavy Goods Vehicles through residential areas'. This was submitted by Vivienne Blondek, having collected 53 signatures. And the text of the petition reads as follows: we call on the Welsh Parliament

'to urge the Welsh Government to inhibit the diversion of Heavy Goods Vehicles through residential areas. These County Council adopted roads are being used as diversion routes for HGVs during Trunk Road closures and putting residents, their properties and the roads at significant risk.'

We received a response from the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales on 16 October. Research has been provided and the petitioner has provided further comments. What actions would you wish us to take as a committee? Jack.

Thanks, Chair. I should say at the start that I know the petitioner, a local councillor in Buckley. And actually, I was at a meeting about this issue before the petition was raised, and I think we got 53 signatures, but I can tell you, before COVID, I was in a room with 50 people, so this is the big issue in Buckley. I'm committed to taking this up as a local Member and I would support any action that the Petitions Committee can take forward if there is an action there. But in terms of the overall issue, I'm committed locally to trying as this has been a big issue, and we need to address it for the future. But I'm not sure if other Members have a view as to what we could actually do with this in this committee.

Leanne.

I just have a question, really. Is this more appropriate to be taken up with the local authority, with maybe a group of local Members, councillors, maybe others—businesspeople—to take it up at a local level, Jack, do you think?

Yes. Leanne, I think you're right. As I say, I've been to a public meeting on this and it was raised by the petitioner, who is a councillor as well. The local authority were there as well. But, I think this is a—. The petition itself is a good way, and it's shown what it means to people, and we've got to use this platform to further encourage it really. As I say, I am committed to doing this locally; I'd call for other local Members in Flintshire to join me as well. But, Chair, as a committee, is this something that Petitions Committee can take forward, or is it not? I'm not sure.

Michelle, did you want to speak then?

I'm happy to work with Jack locally on this, and with anybody else who wants to work to resolve the issue. I understand the concerns of the residents, so I think, probably, it's something that's probably better dealt with by some conversations with the local authority. So, Jack, I don't know whether you want to get in touch with me after the meeting.

Yes.

We'll have a chat. Yes.

Are Members happy with that? Yes. Okay.

So, the next one, 2.4, P-05-1033, 'Abolish Education Workforce Council (EWC) registration fees and completely reform its organisation'. This petition was submitted by the Robert Jeffrey Southall, having collected 371 signatures. The text of the petition reads as follows:

'The registration fee is regressive and deducted from our wages on behalf of the EWC and Government. It is the same if you are full time, proportional or part time. It is a tax on education professionals. The EWC is not a representative body, it has failed to provide comprehensive CPD or promised bursaries for career enhancement. It is not accountable to, or representative of, its registrants. It is a regulatory body, accountable only to the Minister, so there should be no registration fee.'

So, a response was received from the Minister for Education on 5 October. A research brief has been provided, and the petitioner has provided further comments. So, if you'd like to discuss the petition, and inform of any actions you wish us to take. Neil.

Thanks, Chair. I'll declare an interest because I used to be a member of this. I'm still trying to work out what I got from it, actually. I think it is a tax on teachers. It's another way of just getting money out of people, I think; that's my personal opinion. I propose we write to the body and show them the petition. I'd also like to know what they've done for teachers since they've been in existence, because I'm not sure, as a professional teacher, what I got out of being a member of it—nothing at all. I was a member of a trade union, and you have to be a member of this body, and I really do not see why teachers should have to pay anything at all towards it.

So, you want us to write to the Education Workforce Council?

Yes, please. Yes. Ask them what positive things they've brought to the profession of teaching since they've been in existence.

Okay. Any other comments by Members? Okay. So, there's a proposal there, Clerk, to write to the education—. Neil.

Sorry, Chair. Could we ask what the salary of the chief executive is as well, please?

I mean, I would think that's publicly available, but we can mention that, I suppose.

It just saves me looking it up. 

Chair, I think we need to avoid getting into that kind of thing when we write to them. We just need to write to them to ask them about the petition, I think. The other information is publicly available. What their stated objectives and mission statement is, I'm sure, is all in the public domain as they're a public body.

But what have they actually achieved, Leanne? That's—

I think—

We can't get into that, though. It's not up to us to get into that, is it?

We need to ask questions, Leanne. That's the whole point.

Yes, okay. Okay, Neil. I think, to be honest, I'd feel more comfortable with us writing to them in a professional manner, detailing the concerns that the petitioner has raised, and asking for those points to be addressed. And I'm sure that you can find the—. Okay. Michelle.

[Inaudible.]—Janet. Just one point. I think it's a reasonable question to ask the EWC what the education system and the teaching profession actually get in return for their fee. I think it's quite a reasonable question to ask, so I actually support—.

Yes. Clerk, are you clear with the tone of the letter and the content?

Yes, Chair. We can—. I think we can ask for their views on the petition generally, but also an overview of their achievements since they were established.

Okay, thanks everyone. Item 2.5, P-05-1034, 'Re-open theatres and performance venues in Wales in time for the festive season'. This petition was submitted by Jacob Dyer, having collected 157 signatures, and the text of the petition reads:

'Most UK regional theatres will bring in more income during the "festive" period then at any other time of year. Time is rapidly running out for theatres to be informed that they can open in time for this period. Whilst many of the high profile venues in Wales have already postponed their Christmas productions, there are still hundreds that will be able to safely produce and perform theatre if given enough warning that they can open.'

They stress the urgency of this. Now, a response was received from the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism on 5 October. A research brief has been provided, and the petitioner was offered the opportunity to provide further information in advance of the meeting, but has not done so. What actions would you, as a committee, wish to take? Leanne.

It's difficult to make a proposal, Chair, because the regulations around all of this are driven by the spread of COVID, and, while I would love to see venues reopen in time for Christmas, we've got to put the COVID spread and the risk related to that at the top of the agenda. I'm fully supportive of financial arrangements to be improved to venues and to artists to enable them to survive through this period, but, given the Minister's response to this petition and the circumstances that we're all in, it's very difficult to see how we can progress this, although—you know, the points made in this petition are the same as many other petitions in relation to sport venues, gyms, music venues, nightclubs. These are all—. The closure of these facilities is impacting on people's mental health. People go to the theatre, they go to sporting events, to switch off, to get away from life's pressures, and those pressures are more acute now in many cases than they would be under normal conditions. So, we should be doing what we can to enable people to have leisure time, but we also need to able to do that in a safe manner, so I can't see where else we can take this petition now, Chair. I think we should say 'thank you', and commit to keeping up the pressure for financial support for all the people who are in this situation who are unable to make a living and practise what they love doing.

Okay. Neil, and then Jack.

I wouldn't like to close it yet; I'd like to write back to the Minister and ask him if the Government could look at changing the regulations, changing the approach, as a matter of urgency. If there's an outdoor performance, or there's a venue where people are socially distanced and there are masks, what is—. In black and white I'd like to see the chance of transferring the virus, of passing the virus on, because, if you look at the research coming out of Germany, if you're outdoors, if you have a mask on—

Sorry, Neil. Can I just correct you? This petition is specifically to theatres.

There is outdoor theatre as well, isn't there? Somebody contacted me recently about that. I'd just like to write back to the Minister and ask him if there's going to be any change.

Jack.

Thanks, Chair. I'm not too sure what more we can do with this as a petition, myself. While I would—. What I was going to suggest is—. We do understand the importance of this petition, I think. And we don't know where exactly we are going to be. Again, it's probably unlikely that this will take place, but I'm not a medical expert, I don't know, and I'm not privy to those figures. What I was going to suggest is that maybe we do close the petition, however we do write to the Government—not, maybe, seeking a response, but maybe just noting the fact that we do think that this is important and, if there is a chance that these venues can open, the ones who haven't postponed, then they should be giving all the thought, which I'm sure they are already. But I think that that might be a sensible way forward, Chair.  

Okay. So, we have two proposals to close this petition but also to write to the Welsh Government, asking them to note this petition and the impact that having theatres closed is having on people and, indeed, the economy for the theatres themselves. Did you want to comment, Michelle?

I don't see what further the committee can do. I think the Welsh Government has made its mind up about who can open, who can't, who's going to get support and who's not. I don't think that the committee—. I can't see anything else that the committee can do, really, apart from note the petition, make Welsh Government aware of the strength of feeling reflected in the petition, and close the petition.

Okay. So, there's overwhelming support there to close this petition, but also to write to the Welsh Government, Clerk.

So, we move on to 2.6, P-05-1035, 'Allow birthing partners to be present at scans, the start of labour, birth and after the birth'. Now, this petition was submitted by Hannah Albrighton, having collected 7,326 signatures.

'Due to COVID-19 there has been restrictions on birthing partners being present for scans, labour and birth in many hospitals.

'There hasn’t been many reviews on this topic, if any at all.

'It seems unfair'. 

A response was received from the Minister for Health and Social Services on 27 October. A research brief has been provided. The petitioner was offered a short window to provide further information in advance of the meeting, but has had less time to do so than usual. The petition is on the agenda, due to the time-sensitive nature of the issue it raises. Can I invite Members to discuss the petition and resolve any actions that you wish the committee to take? Leanne.

Thanks, Chair. Can I first of all say that this is a really important petition? This is something that has been raised with me on numerous, multiple occasions, since the first lockdown, and some of the issues have not been resolved since the very beginning of that first lockdown. Some of the cases that have come across my desk have been absolutely harrowing. For women to receive news that their baby has died while they're carrying the child, all of those kinds of things—to receive that information when you're on your own is absolutely horrendous. In the natural order of things, you'd have somebody with you, you'd have your partner, your birthing partner, with you under those circumstances.

So, locally, I've been raising this probably every week in the local briefing meetings that we have with Cwm Taf health board, and the answer that I get back every time makes sense because it's all around stopping the spread of COVID, as we've already talked about. And yes, there are circumstances where partners can be present and be given full personal protective equipment for certain parts of the process, but it is difficult for them to be able to guarantee that everybody can have the whole usual service that they've been used to and it is causing a lot of difficulty for people.

I'm satisfied that locally, anyway, they review it on a regular basis. They look at it and they've made some changes throughout the course of things to reflect those reviews, but, given where we are with the circulation of the virus now, I can understand why the guidance is as it is. So, clearly, this is an issue that is affecting a lot of people, and the number of signatures on the petition reflects that, and I'm fully supportive. The impact, over the long term, on mental health, for all parties involved in this—these are not normal circumstances and having to deal with some very difficult situations when you're on your own and within the COVID setting is very, very difficult. We need some more information, I think, before we can take any further action on this. There is updated guidance with the Minister now, so it would be useful for us to see that, to see if there are any major changes to that, and given that we're coming out of the firebreak on 9 November as well, and we're expecting the regulations and rules around lots of areas of life to change as a result of that, it may be worth us looking at this petition in a future meeting to see where we are in light of the changes that come about as a result of the end of the firebreak.

Okay. I think I saw Neil's hand up. Thanks, Leanne. We can't hear you, Neil, sorry.

Yes, thanks. I just think we should wait—I think Leanne just said that—until the guidance is published.

Okay. Jack, did I see your hand?

Yes, Chair, thanks. I agree; I think we should wait. I'm very, very supportive of this petition. We need to see what the guidance is before we do need to take any further action, but I'm very supportive of this petition. I think, when the virus allows us to, this needs to be one of our top priorities for sorting out. I've written to the health board locally as well. I've had people, locally and across Wales, being in touch about this, so it's very important and I think it's got the committee's full support, so let's see where we are. We need to see that updated guidance as soon as possible, I think. I'd stress that to the Minister.

Okay. Michelle.

I think it's a shame that this issue has had to go to a petition. It's been ongoing for quite some time now. A lot of people have been affected by it. It's a dreadful situation to be in, if you have the worst possible news you could hear, and you hear it on your own. I have nothing but sympathy. My heart goes out to those parents. I agree with what the other members of the committee have said.

Okay, thank you. Okay, so we move on to 2.7, P-05-1036, 'Allow support bubbles during lock down'. This is page 97 in your pack. The petition was submitted by Louise Vaughan, having collected 108 signatures. The text of the petition reads:

'In order to safeguard the mental and emotional well-being of the population, during lockdown, allow single-parents and those who live alone to form a support bubble with another household, and for couples who live apart to visit each other's homes as is permitted in Scotland and Northern Ireland.'

Now, a response to this was received from the First Minister on 9 October. The petitioner has provided further comments. So, it's really how you wish to take this forward as a committee. Leanne.

Can I just ask a question, first of all, because I'm not clear with every aspect of the new announcement that's been made for the new regulations following the firebreak? What is the situation with regard to this? Do we have any information about that, and, if we don't, can we get that information before we make any decisions?

Yes, Clerk—. It's my understanding that two families are allowed to bubble, aren't they, now—a support bubble. But, Clerk, do you wish to—?

Yes, thank you, Chair. My understanding is the same as yours, based on the announcements made yesterday. Two families will be able to form a bubble from next Monday. In previous times where that's been the case, also single parents are allowed to, or split families are allowed to, share looking after children, but I'm not clear that the announcement yesterday went into the detail around couples, for example, which is the second part of this petition and something that the petitioner specifically raises in her comments. It's possible—. I suppose the committee could expect that that information becomes clearer before the end of this week, but I don't think that is clear as we're speaking.

Leanne again, and then Michelle.

I was going to ask if we're able to take a decision to close the petition if the situation is resolved when further information comes out, or whether we have to wait until another meeting to do that—whether we can do it conditionally, because we want to maybe keep the petition open if this specific set of circumstances isn't covered by the guidance when it comes out. Does that make sense?

Yes. Clerk.

Yes, I think if that was the agreement of the committee, then we could agree that, depending on what the detail is around whether couples are allowed to meet, if that is resolved to the satisfaction of the petitioner, then, yes, I don't see any reason why the petition couldn't be closed without coming back to another committee meeting. But, of course, if that situation is not resolved, then the committee could look at it again.

Okay. Michelle, I saw your hand up, and then Jack.

Why don't we just ask the Welsh Government for clarification on the matter or ask them to take the comments of the petitioners into account when they're formulating the new guidance?

I think we're going to seek clarity, and then that will decide it. From what I understand, the committee wants to go in the direction that we'll seek that guidance and if everything isn't addressed that this petition raises, then it will come back to the next committee. The suggestion is that if the new guidance addresses these concerns, the petition will be closed without it needing to come back to another meeting. Jack.

Thanks, Chair. Very quickly from me, I agree with that approach to take it forward. I think it will address those concerns, but it's good to check, and I agree with that position.

Thank you. Moving on, 2.8, P-05-1037, 'Allow children to enter lockdown areas to continue to train with their existing sports clubs'. This petition was submitted by Wendy Brady, having collected 9,867 signatures. The text of the petition reads:

'Child athletes, gymnasts, swimmers, footballers are being prevented from maintaining their training in their chosen sports with their clubs because of the local lockdown boundaries.'

Now, we wrote, obviously, to the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism, and we received a response on 22 October. The petitioner has provided further comments to us. How would you like to take this forward? Jack.

Thanks, Chair. Again, a very important petition. We can see that by the numbers, and I've certainly supported this. I think we're in a similar position as last time. Let's see where we are after the firebreak, when the firebreak ends, and hopefully this will go back to a point where children can cross the local authority border to play their chosen sport. I'm certainly supportive of that, but if we can clarify, and maybe it's the same position as the last petition. If that is the case, I'll propose to close this petition and thank the petitioner.

Okay. Leanne, and then Neil.

I just wondered if we can seek further clarification on future thinking, because this petition came about as a result of the local lockdowns. Now, I know in Rhondda Cynon Taf, we came second after Caerphilly, so we were under one of these local lockdowns quite a long time before the firebreak came in, and I know that this was an issue that particularly affected girls in sport. That's what I was picking up from my inbox. Because of the fact that there are fewer clubs in each county covering girls, say for football, that meant that many had to leave the county or go to a different county to be part of a club. That's not exclusive, because obviously, clearly, everybody travels over boundaries—the boundaries of a county don't matter for many sports. But if the Government are planning future local lockdowns, county lockdowns, these are the kinds of issues that need to be ironed out now, I think, so that future regulations, when those local lockdowns are introduced, don't throw up all these different problems.

Again, it's acutely important for routine, for mental health, for physical well-being as well as the mental well-being, that young people are able to participate in sport, and we should be putting everything we can to support them to do that, and not allow barriers to get in the way. Obviously, that's notwithstanding the priority being COVID spread, but we need to encourage everyone to be active, especially at this time, I think. So, if we can make representations to Ministers along those lines, I’d be very grateful, but it’s more for these local lockdowns now, beyond 9 November, if we need to go into those sorts of measures again.

Okay. Neil.

Thanks, Chair. I’d just like to put on record the inconsistencies with the approach from the Government to this, because a lot of children have been unable to play sport and it’s had a huge effect on morale, the morale of families, on the mental health of people, and yet over half term in Cardiff, sports clubs were allowed to operate—private sports clubs were allowed to operate. None of this makes sense when—. I think what people out there find frustrating is that, if there’s a rule, let everyone follow the rules and we can all agree, but there are so many contradictions and there are so many times, for example the half term, where privately funded sports clubs or Government-funded sports clubs could play sport and yet my local teams could not. And I think there’s a lot of frustration out there, which I can identify with. Thanks.

Okay. Any other Members? Okay, Clerk, you’re clear on that?

The next one, 3.1—these are updates, now, to previous petitions—P-05-882, 'Transforming the response for older people experiencing domestic abuse—a call for action'. This was submitted by Sarah Wydall on behalf of the Dewis Choice project, and was first considered in July 2019, having collected 125 signatures. The committee last considered this on 9 June, and we agreed to write to the Older People’s Commissioner for Wales to ask her what more she thinks should be done by the Welsh Government to increase support for older people. The committee considered this petition on 13 October and we agreed to write again to the Minister for Health and Social Services to seek a response to the petition. A response was received from the Minister on 19 October, and the petitioner has provided further comments. So, again, I invite Members to discuss this petition and any actions you wish for us to take. Leanne.

I think we should welcome the work that the older people’s commissioner is doing, bringing together an action group looking at this. And there’s going to be a strategy published shortly, which is good news as well. I think one of the key issues in this area, though, is around people understanding what services are available to them. Often, there are services, but the people going through the abuse are not aware that they can access help. We can’t assume, especially with this age group, that people are going to be able to access online information. So I just think that there’s not much further we can do on this, given the work that’s ongoing, but maybe we can press the case that work needs to be done to ensure that this group of very, very vulnerable people, especially more vulnerable now given the COVID situation, have access to the information that they need to keep them safe.

Okay. Any other comments? Okay, are you clear on that one, Clerk?

Item 3.2, P-05-926, 'To Provide a Chronic Fatigue Department in Wales', on page 112 in your pack. This petition was submitted by Marjorie Ann Lasebikan, and was first considered in January 2020, having collected 155 signatures. Now, we last considered this on 7 July and, at that time, we agreed to write back to the Minister for Health and Social Services to share the recommendations provided by the Welsh Association of ME and CFS Support, WAMES, and to seek a response to these. A response was received from the Minister on 9 September, and the petitioner has provided further comments. How would you like to go forward on this one? Just as a note, we’ve considered this petition on four occasions, and we have engaged in detailed correspondence with the Minister and others. Neil.

Thanks, Chair. The guidelines for chronic fatigue syndrome are under review now, and they're going to be published in April 2021. So, I think we could either have a watching brief on it to see what is published, or we could close the petition and thank the petitioner. I suppose—[Inaudible.]

Okay. Any other comments? Leanne. 

I'm just really consciously aware that this is a group of people who—[Inaudible.] They don't get answers in terms of the reasons behind their illness—[Inaudible.]—action plans in terms of being able to try to live some sort of normal life. And I'm aware that many people with these sort of umbrella group of conditions get very, very frustrated. So, I'd like to—. We have to wait for the guidelines, but they're asking specifically for a centre to be set up here, and it's unlikely that that issue is going to be addressed by the guidelines unless some sort of pressure is put to include it.

So, firstly, I think we can write to the petitioner and suggest that they lobby for the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidelines to include some sort of centre, for Ministers to state that that's what they want. But perhaps this committee can do the same. Perhaps we can write to lobby for a centre as well. And, then, if the guidelines, when they come back in April 2021, do not include what they want, or at least if it's not a physical centre, some sort of service that ensures that everybody gets some sort of basic support, then they set up a new petition for the new Senedd, because by the time this comes back to us in April 2021, we're not going to be sitting as a Senedd anyway; it will be the Easter recess break and we'll be in full election mode, assuming the election goes ahead when it's meant to, so this could get lost within the whole election cycle.

So, if we could take that series of actions, I think perhaps that would go some way to convincing this group of people that there are at least some people who want to see some progress on achieving the aims that they've set out, because they do get pretty much pushed about and ignored, as far as I can see.

Okay. Clerk, are you clear on that?

If I just clarify my understanding then of what the committee wishes to do, we can suggest to the petitioner, with what's going on with NICE guidelines at the moment, that she may want to contribute to that review process, and we could, as a committee, also write to make the team reviewing that in NICE aware of this petition, and the sentiment that's been expressed to this committee, but that given the election period and that we're expecting those guidelines to be finalised in April when, as Leanne has said, this committee may no longer be meeting, that we would close the petition at that point and suggest that they pursue it in the next Senedd if it's not resolved.

Okay. Are Members in support? Yes.

Okay.

The next one is 3.3, P-05-1014, 'Give Dental practices and their staff the “key worker” status.' This petition was submitted by Owain Dimmick, and was first considered in October 2020, having collected 233 signatures. The committee considered this on 13 October, agreeing to write again to the Minister for Health and Social Services to seek a response to the petition. A response was received from the Minister on 19 October, and the petitioner has provided further comments. How would you like to go forward? Jack, and then Michelle, and then Neil. 

Thanks, Chair. I think the petition has done its job, hasn't it? Simple as that really: they're now on the list. I think we thank the petitioner; well done, and we close the petition. 

Michelle.

Jack just took the words out of my mouth. [Laughter.]

And, Neil, you agree, yes. Okay. I think a huge thanks to the petitioner. It's great when we see things like this happen. Okay.

Item 3.4, P-05-984, 'Stop discriminatory remote consultations for incinerator applications during the Covid-19 Pandemic'. The petition was submitted by councillor Amanda Jenner, and was first considered in July 2020, having collected 392 signatures. The background to this is: the committee last considered this on 15 September. We agreed to write back to the Minister for Housing and Local Government to ask for details of the criteria used in considering whether to agree an extension to the timescales associated with consultation at the full application stage for developments of national significance. A response was received from the Minister on 7 October and the petitioner has provided further comments. So, I invite Members to discuss this petition and any actions you wish for our committee to take. Anyone? Michelle.

I think the petitioner themselves seems to think that she suspects that the committee has taken this petition as far as we can. I hate to suggest closing petitions, but I don't think there's very much more we can do, unless any of the other members of the committee have any ideas about how we can progress this.

Any other comments? Okay. So, there seems to be support there to close this petition, and, obviously, to thank the petitioner for bringing it to petitions.

So, moving on, 3.5, P-05-898, 'Ban the use of A boards in Wales'. This petition was submitted by Angharad Paget-Jones, and was first considered in October 2019, having collected 80 signatures. We last considered this on 29 September; we agreed at that point to await the views of the petitioner on the response from the Minister for Housing and Local Government before deciding how to proceed with the petition. The petitioner has provided further comments. How would you like to take this forward? Anyone? Neil.

I'm not sure if there's more that we can actually do here, because the concerns will be considered further as part of the social model of disability, which is being taken forward. So, we could close the petition. I'd like to thank the petitioner, though, personally as well, because when I opened my office a while back, in 2016, we could have an A board outside, but it's in the back now, because of just sitting on here, really, and being made more aware of the difficulties. 

Okay. We have a proposal to close this petition. Does everybody agree? Yes. Okay.

So moving on, 3.6, P-05-935, 'Ban Pavement Parking—Pavement Promise'. This petition was submitted by Rhian Morris, and was first considered in February 2020, having collected 801 signatures. The committee last considered this on 7 July, and we agreed to write back to the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport to request that all the feedback is shared with, and considered by, the taskforce group, and to ask questions about the time frame for their work and how people with sight loss will be consulted. A brief update was received from the Deputy Minister on 10 October, and on 13 October, the Deputy Minister issued a written statement on tackling pavement parking. The petitioner has provided further comments. How would you like to go forward? Jack.

Thank you, Chair. I believe the petitioner is satisfied with what's happened to date. Again, I think the petition has worked as far as it can. The Welsh Government have accepted the Welsh pavement parking taskforce recommendations in full. So I believe, again, it's done its job. So, thank the petitioner—a huge well done—and I'd suggest closing this petition. And again, it just proves what a petition can do, going through this committee.

All Members agreed? Okay. 

Moving on, 3.7, P-05-944 'Reverse the cuts to commuter train services in North East Wales'. This petition was submitted Dr Mihela Erjavec and was first considered in March 2020, having collected 953 signatures.

So, we considered this on 10 March and we agreed at that time to write to Transport for Wales to share this petition and the further information provided by the petitioners, and to ask for a response to the issues raised. The committee also agreed to ask for a breakdown of the relevant service changes and the journey time benefits achieved through the introduction of the express north-south Wales service. A response was received from Transport for Wales on 7 August and the petitioner has provided further comments. How would you like to address this petition? Michelle.

I think we should keep an eye on the petition until the end of this current Welsh Parliament and then revisit this petition later if the circumstances in relation to the train timetables change.

Do all Members agree with that proposal? Yes. Okay.

Item 3.8, P-05-920, 'School Budgeting for ALN'. This petition was submitted by Iwan Williams and was first considered in December 2019, having collected 106 signatures. The Committee last considered the petition on 3 December and agreed to await further views from the petitioner to the response provided by the Minister for Education, and also to write to the Welsh Local Government Association to ask for information about the approach taken by local authorities when allocating funding for additional learning needs. A response was received from the WLGA on 1 September and the petitioner has provided further comments. I ask you to discuss this petition and make clear your intentions in terms of how you wish this petition to go forward. Jack.

Thanks, Chair. I think we need to understand what's next, don't we, from the Minister. So, I'd suggest writing to the Minister about the next steps, following the publication of the review of school spending in Wales, and, again, the concerns expressed by the WLGA. So, I suggest a letter to the Minister and bring this petition back to a future meeting.

Do all Members agree? Leanne.

I agree with that. I just wonder if we can have some additional information and ask for a split in what funding is provided for the diagnosis of additional learning needs. I'm just so aware of many, many families who have non-neurotypical young people in school, struggling to get statements and struggling to get a diagnosis. So, there needs to be secured investment for that whole area. But then, separately to that, when somebody has a statement or a diagnosis, there needs to be funding for additional services to be put in place to help and support that child, young person and their family. So many are missing out on both of those aspects at the moment. So, I'd like to know, if we are writing back to the Minister for Education, how those two separate issues—but obviously they're connected—are both going to be taken into account. Because there's no point in diagnosing someone if they're not then prepared to provide the support later on. I'm sure we've all got experience in our case loads of situations where all too often that happens.

Okay. Everyone agree? Yes. Thanks, Leanne. 

Item 3.9, P-05-988, 'Give key worker children equal access to their schools and teachers'. This petition was submitted Catherine Evans and was first considered in July 2020, having collected 508 signatures. We last considered this on 15 September and we agreed to write back to the Minister for Education to ask whether more specific guidance would be provided to schools about the inclusion of children who also need to use key-worker childcare in the event of any future phased reopening of schools. A response was received from the Minister on 8 October, and the petitioner has provided us with extra comments. How would you like to take this forward? Michelle.

I think this petition is another example of a good result. The petitioner has managed to extract an assurance from the Minister for Education about the prioritisation of the children of critical workers. The petitioner seems satisfied with the outcome. So, I think we should thank the petitioner, say, 'absolutely well done' for their work, and close the petition.

Okay. Do all Members agree with that? Yes. Okay. Thank you.

Item 3.10, P-05-992, 'We call on the Welsh Government to create a common body of knowledge about Welsh history that all pupils will learn'. This is page 154 in your pack. This was submitted by Elfed Wyn Jones, and was first considered in September 2020, having collected 7,927 signatures. How would you like to take this forward?

Chair, if I could—. Sorry if it's not clear in the briefing, but this petition is being considered jointly with the next one, because the correspondence we've received relates to both petitions.

Okay. Sorry, I missed that, actually. My fault. So, 3.11, P-05-1000, 'Make it compulsory for Black and POC UK histories to be taught in the Welsh education curriculum', and this is 165 in your pack. So, this petition was submitted by Angharad Owen, was first considered in September 2020, having collected 34,736 signatures. We considered both these petitions on 15 September and we agreed to seek time for a combined Plenary debate on the teaching of history in schools, and that debate is scheduled for tomorrow, 4 November. The committee also agreed to seek further information from the Minister for Education and Estyn to inform the debate. Responses have now been received from both, and the petitioner for the teaching of Welsh history has submitted further comments. How would you like to take these forward? Neil.

I think if they're going to be debated tomorrow, then that's the way to progress matters. I'd like to put it on the record, though, that, as the only person of colour on this committee, because I've made an allegation of racism, I will not be allowed to take part in the debate. The way that this Senedd is operating—that is in itself an expression of indirect discrimination against me as a person of colour and a Member of colour elected to this Parliament. As far as I'm concerned and many other people are concerned—

Neil—

It's shameful, Chair, and I—

Neil, as Chairman, can I ask that we stick to the content of the petitions and stick to that quite rigorously, really? When people submit a petition, it is our response to their petition that they are wanting to see and how we're taking this forward. So, do any other Members have any comments on these petitions? We've had a proposal from Neil that, with the debate being tomorrow, we look at that and, maybe, come back to it. Do all Members agree with that? Okay. Thank you.

Item 3.12, P-05-910, 'Make thrombectomy available 24-7 for Welsh patients'. This petition was submitted by Callum Rogers and was first considered in November 2019, having collected 685 signatures. So, we considered this on 5 November 2019, and we agreed to write to the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee to ask for details about the development of the service specification for thrombectomy, the timescales for running a consultation exercise on this, and the anticipated next steps following the consultation. A response from WHSSC was received on 28 August. The petitioner was offered the opportunity to provide additional comments prior to the meeting, but has not done so. There's been no contact with the petitioner since this petition was submitted. So, I invite Members to discuss this petition and any actions you wish for us as a committee to take. Anyone? Leanne.

Well, given that we've not had any further contact with the petitioner and the fact that Cardiff and the Vale University Health Board are developing services in this area, including the expansion of availability to ensure that there's full 24/7 coverage, I'm not sure that there's much more we can do in terms of progressing this now. So, I would say we can write to the petitioner to say 'thank you'. I'm sure that they're aware of these developments, and that could be an explanation as to why we've not had any contact, because they're generally satisfied with the way in which services are developing. I'm pretty sure that if they weren't satisfied, they'd be back in touch, Chair. 

Okay. Do all Members agree with that proposal? Okay.

P-05-936, 'Offer Bowel Cancer Screening After the Age of 74'. This petition was submitted by Andrew Lye and was first considered in February 2020, having collected 69 signatures. Now, we considered this on 23 June, and we agreed to write to the Minister for Health and Social Services to ascertain whether any research has been or will be commissioned in Wales into the potential benefits or harm of bowel cancer screening for people over the age of 74 and the associated timescale, and also an indication of the timescale for introducing screening for people in the 50-59 age bracket. A response from the Minister was received on 6 August. The petitioner was offered the opportunity to provide additional comments prior to the meeting but has not done so. The petitioner has not provided further comments on this petition since June 2020. I invite Members to discuss this. Neil, and then Michelle. 

The same thing applies as with the previous item—the petitioners have not been in touch and there is work ongoing, so I would propose that we close the petition.

Michelle.

I would like to write to the Minister. He said in his response that screening programmes were paused earlier in 2020 due to the pandemic and that the current priority is to fully reinstate the programme. I'd like to know when that programme's going to be reinstated. I'd also like to know what he's doing to ensure people over 59 know what to look for in terms of bowel cancer so that they can self-refer, and I'd just like to make a point that I think that expanding the bowel cancer screening programme to include people aged 50-59 by 2023 is an abominably poor ambition. It's unbelievable. Bowel cancer is one of those cancers that the earlier you catch it, the more chance you have of recovery and living a normal life afterwards. So, to be so restrictive about who you're going to screen, I think, is a disgraceful response from the Minister and I would like the committee to write back to the Minister and ask those questions that I've just proposed.

Okay. So, we have a proposal to write to the Minister. Do Members agree? Yes? Okay. Thank you. 

So, we now move to item 4 on the agenda, which is a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the meeting for the following business. I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42, that the committee resolve to meet in private for the remainder of today's meeting. Are Members content? Okay. The meeting is now going into private session and we will see you at the next Petitions Committee.