National Assembly for Wales

Welcome, Members, to this week's virtual meeting of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. In accordance with Standing Order 34.19, I've determined that the public are excluded from the committee's meeting in order to protect public health. In accordance with Standing Order 34.21, notice of this decision was included in the agenda for this meeting, published last Thursday. This meeting is however being broadcast live on Senedd.tv and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual.

Aside from the procedural adaptation relating to conducting proceedings remotely, all other Standing Order requirements for committees remain in place. We have a full committee in attendance today. Please can Members ensure that all mobile devices are switched to silent mode? Senedd Cymru operates through the medium of both the Welsh and English languages. Interpretation is available during this morning's meeting. Members are reminded that the sound operator is controlling the microphones and, as such, you do not need to mute and unmute yourselves during the public meeting.

Are there any declarations of interest? I don't see that there are any, so we can then move straight on to the agenda.

We're on item 2: instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. We have the the National Health Service (Temporary Disapplication of Tenure
of Office) (Wales) (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020, and Members have before them the report, the regulations and the explanatory memorandum. These regulations disapply certain maximum periods of tenure of office of board and committee members of particular NHS bodies in order to address disruption to appointments during the COVID-19 pandemic. I understand that one merits point has been identified, so I refer to the lawyers. Gareth.

There is one merits point, on pack page 1, noting the statement from the Commissioner for Public Appointments, which sets out some helpful further background to the current suspension of public appointments in Wales. Suspended campaigns are due to resume in September 2020, but that date is being kept under review, and while some appointments could be extended without legislation, there are some appointments that require legislation to extend.

Okay. Thank you for that. Any comments? Suzy Davies?

Not from me.

Dai Lloyd?

Carwyn Jones? No.

In which case, we move on to item 2.2, which is the Single Use Carrier Bags Charge (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2020. Single-use carrier bags used for delivery or collection of goods are currently subject to a temporary exemption from the charge required by the Single Use Carrier Bags Charge (Wales) Regulations 2010. In order to mitigate as far as possible the risk of transmission of the COVID-19 virus, these regulations extend the exemption to 31 December 2020. Gareth—over to the lawyers.

Yes, there is just one merits point at pack page 18, noting there's been no formal consultation on these regulations. Members may remember a set of regulations considered in April that first introduced this exemption, and these regulations, as said, extend that exemption until the end of the year.

Okay, thank you for that. Any comments? Suzy Davies?

No.

Dai Lloyd?

Carwyn?

None.

In which case, we move on to item 2.3, which is the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Public Health Information for Persons Travelling to Wales etc.) Regulations 2020. These regulations place a requirement on operators of international passenger services coming from outside the common travel area to an airport, heliport or seaport in Wales to provide passengers with certain public health information relating to coronavirus. The regulations have been made in breach of the 21-day rule, and there are a number of technical and merits points to be noted. Over to you, Gareth.

Yes. There are two technical points and two merits points, starting on pack page 34. The two technical points are down to incorrect cross-references within the regulations. The Welsh Government response accepts those points and says that amending regulations will be made at the earliest available opportunity. The first merits point notes a breach of the 21-day rule and the reasons given by the Welsh Government for the breach. In brief, the Welsh Government states that the current health crisis requires these regulations to be in place urgently and as part of a unified approach across the United Kingdom. The second merits point notes there's been no public consultation on these regulations because of the need for urgency and that the Welsh Government's assessment is that the impact of the regulations on operators is low. Paragraph 6 of the explanatory memorandum goes on to describe in a bit more detail the impact these regulations will have on operators. 

Okay, thank you for that report. Are there any comments? Suzy Davies?

No, not on this.

Dai Lloyd?

Carwyn?

No.

I think, in the context of what we discussed last week, to formally write, though, to acknowledge the reasons that have been set, and just to get formally a response—. So, we can do that, Gareth. 

We move on to item 3, then: instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered. On the Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2020, you have in front of you the report and the Welsh Government response. We considered this instrument on 8 June, and we laid our report on the same day, and the Plenary debate in respect of it was held on 17 June 2020. The Government response has now been received, so it's there for us, really, to formally note. Any comments from anyone on this? If not, then we duly note that.

We then move on to item 3.2: the Census (Wales) Regulations 2020, and, again, you have before you the report and the Welsh Government response. Again, this was an instrument that we considered on 15 June 2020. We laid our report the following day, on 16 June 2020. The Government response was received on 19 June. Members have seen that response, so today we're really just formally noting that response. Are there any comments or observations on it?

If not, then, we move straight on then to item 3.3, which is the Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel) (Wales) Regulations 2020. And, again, you have the report in front of you and you have the Welsh Government's response to that report. This, again, is an instrument that we considered, on 22 June 2020. We laid our report the same day. The response from the Government was received on 22 June, after the committee had completed its scrutiny. It was circulated to Members outside of committee. Today it's just a matter of formally noting the Government's response. Are there any comments or observations?

If there aren't any, then we move on to papers to note. We have the letter from the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd, just reporting on the finance Ministers' quadrilateral meeting. So, we're invited to note that. This is a letter that's, of course, sent to us in accordance with the inter-institutional relations agreement. It's a short letter, with only the basis of information on the discussions that took place. Are there any comments or observations on it? Suzy Davies?

Well, only just to reinforce that point really that it's a bit thin on detail. I don't feel particularly better informed as a result of reading it. 

No, it effectively is just telling us what had happened, and the very basis of that, but with very little substance to what actually was discussed. I'm not quite sure how much further it takes us on that. Is there anything you want to—? I mean, we could request slightly more detail on the actual content of the meeting and the areas that were discussed. But on the basis it's talking around—financial arrangements and so on—I'm not sure that's going to take us very much further either, and it's also a matter that I'd have thought the Finance Committee would probably want to explore in more detail, rather than ourselves. Did you want to pursue this further, Suzy, or do we leave it there for the moment?

Well, perhaps we could just check with the Finance Committee clerks if they're getting the detail that we're not.

Yes, can we do that? I think that's an important point, actually. Because if they have more detailed information, then they're obviously exploring it within their portfolio of responsibilities, rather than ourselves. Perhaps we can just have a report back to the next meeting on this point. Anyone else? No. Okay, thank you for that, Suzy.

Then, item 4.2, which is letter from the First Minister—Senedd Cymru (Disqualification) Order 2020. We're invited to note the letter from the First Minister, which relates to the Welsh Government's consultation on the disqualification Order of 2020. The draft Order, as we know, designates office holders that would be disqualified from being a Member of the Senedd but not from being a candidate to be a Member of the Senedd. The letter notes that, following consideration of the consultation responses, the draft Order will be brought forward for the Senedd's approval later this year, before formal submission to Her Majesty in Council. If there are any issues on this, we can discuss these in private session, unless there are any immediate notes or observations to be made? No.

In which case, we will now move into private session. So, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi), I invite the committee to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. Do Members agree we now move into private session? I think that's agreed, so we now move into private session. Thank you.