Y Cyfarfod Llawn - Y Bumed Senedd

Plenary - Fifth Senedd

09/01/2019

Cyfarfu’r Cynulliad am 13:30 gyda’r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair. 

The Assembly met at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

1. Cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Addysg
1. Questions to the Minister for Education

Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni y prynhawn yma yw'r cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Addysg, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Mandy Jones. 

And the first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the Minister for Education, and the first question is from Mandy Jones. 

Capasiti TG mewn Ysgolion yng Ngogledd Cymru
IT Capacity in Schools in North Wales

Diolch, Llywydd, and a happy new year—blwyddyn newydd dda

Diolch, Lywydd, a blwyddyn newydd dda.

1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gapasiti TG mewn ysgolion yng Ngogledd Cymru? OAQ53153

1. Will the Minister make a statement on IT capacity in schools in North Wales? OAQ53153

The information technology capacity in north Wales varies from school to school. In addition to £5 million for broadband upgrades, I have allocated £1.7 million to support schools in delivering the digital requirements of the new curriculum, with priority given to schools most in need of upgrading in-school infrastructure.

Mae'r capasiti technoleg gwybodaeth yng ngogledd Cymru yn amrywio o ysgol i ysgol. Yn ychwanegol at y £5 miliwn ar gyfer uwchraddio band eang, rwyf wedi dyrannu £1.7 miliwn i gynorthwyo ysgolion i fodloni gofynion digidol y cwricwlwm newydd, gyda blaenoriaeth i’r ysgolion sydd fwyaf o angen uwchraddio seilwaith yr ysgol.

Thank you. Minister, there have been some concerning headlines, both before and after Christmas, around the education sector. I would like to discuss today the report by Qualifications Wales at the end of last year about IT learning, particularly the reference to the out-of-date hardware, software and, in some cases, skills. Minister, can you give an assurance that schools in my region have the hardware, software and teaching staff they need to equip their students with the skills necessary in this digital world?

Diolch. Weinidog, rydym wedi gweld penawdau sy'n peri pryder, cyn ac ar ôl y Nadolig, ynglŷn â'r sector addysg. Heddiw, hoffwn drafod yr adroddiad a gynhyrchwyd gan Cymwysterau Cymru ddiwedd y llynedd ar ddysgu TG, yn enwedig y cyfeiriad at y galedwedd, y feddalwedd, ac mewn rhai achosion, y sgiliau sydd wedi dyddio. Weinidog, a allwch roi sicrwydd fod gan ysgolion yn fy rhanbarth y galedwedd, y feddalwedd a'r staff addysgu sydd eu hangen arnynt i roi'r sgiliau angenrheidiol i'w myfyrwyr yn y byd digidol hwn?

The Member is right to say that we need to ensure that schools have the hardware, both outside of the school premises and in school, to ensure the curriculum can be delivered. As I have said, we have committed £5 million to upgrade broadband as part of the Learning in Digital Wales programme. I'm pleased to say that of the five difficult-to-reach schools identified in north Wales, three of those schools have now been properly connected and two are in the process of being connected. As I mentioned yesterday in answers to questions regarding the beginning of online assessments, further resources have been given to the Welsh Local Government Association to address the internal needs of those schools most in need, and I continue to work with my officials in the LIDW team to look to where we can prioritise further capital investment in this important area. 

Mae'r Aelod yn iawn i ddweud bod angen inni sicrhau bod gan ysgolion y galedwedd, y tu allan i'r ysgol ac yn yr ysgol, i sicrhau y gellir darparu’r cwricwlwm. Fel y dywedais, rydym wedi ymrwymo £5 miliwn i uwchraddio band eang fel rhan o'r rhaglen Dysgu yn y Gymru Ddigidol. Rwy'n falch o ddweud, o’r pum ysgol anodd eu cyrraedd a nodwyd yng ngogledd Cymru, fod tair o'r ysgolion hynny bellach wedi'u cysylltu, a bod dwy ohonynt wrthi’n cael eu cysylltu. Fel y soniais ddoe wrth ateb cwestiynau ynglŷn â dechrau asesiadau ar-lein, mae Cymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru wedi derbyn adnoddau pellach i fynd i'r afael ag anghenion mewnol yr ysgolion mwyaf anghenus hynny, ac rwy’n parhau i weithio gyda fy swyddogion yn y tîm Dysgu yn y Gymru Ddigidol i nodi ble y gallwn flaenoriaethu buddsoddiad cyfalaf pellach yn y maes pwysig hwn.

Diolch, Llywydd, a blwyddyn newydd dda. 

Thank you, Llywydd, and a happy new year.

Minister, as you will be aware, twenty-first century technology, such as superfast broadband, is of increasing importance to our primary schools, with more bilingual digital tools and resources now available online. One major example where IT is of significant importance, of course, is the new e-sgol pilot project. As you will be aware, this has seen the use of video technology to connect classrooms in different schools across Ceredigion and Powys. I'm aware that £279,000 capital funding has been allocated to Ceredigion council to buy specialist equipment to pilot e-sgol in 13 schools. Obviously, this looks to be a good initiative. However, it is a considerable spend that could amount to millions if you are going to roll out the scheme out across Wales. 

Therefore, what assurances can you provide us with here today that the e-sgol project was well costed before the pilot began and is being monitored against spend in terms of performance? And can you clarify whether you will be making the finance available following the review later on this year? If it has been a successful scheme in Ceredigion, will you be rolling it out across north Wales, and, indeed, Aberconwy?

Weinidog, fel y gwyddoch, mae technoleg yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, fel band eang cyflym iawn, yn fwyfwy pwysig i'n hysgolion cynradd, gyda mwy o offer ac adnoddau digidol dwyieithog ar gael ar-lein bellach. Un enghraifft bwysig lle mae TG o bwysigrwydd sylweddol, wrth gwrs, yw'r prosiect peilot newydd e-sgol. Fel y gwyddoch, mae hyn wedi arwain at y defnydd o dechnoleg fideo i gysylltu ystafelloedd dosbarth mewn gwahanol ysgolion ledled Ceredigion a Phowys. Rwy'n ymwybodol fod £279,000 o arian cyfalaf wedi'i ddyrannu i gyngor Ceredigion er mwyn prynu offer arbenigol i dreialu e-sgol mewn 13 ysgol. Yn amlwg, ymddengys bod hon yn fenter dda. Fodd bynnag, mae'n wariant sylweddol a allai fod yn filiynau os ydych yn mynd i gyflwyno'r cynllun ledled Cymru.

Felly, pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi inni yma heddiw fod prosiect e-sgol wedi ei brisio’n drwyadl cyn i'r cynllun peilot ddechrau, a’i fod yn cael ei fonitro yn erbyn gwariant o ran ei berfformiad? Ac a allwch egluro a fyddwch yn darparu’r cyllid yn dilyn yr adolygiad yn nes ymlaen eleni? Os bydd wedi bod yn gynllun llwyddiannus yng Ngheredigion, a fyddwch yn ei gyflwyno ar draws gogledd Cymru, ac yn wir, yn Aberconwy?

I'm glad that the Member is aware of the innovative e-sgol project that is indeed being piloted for the Welsh Government by Ceredigion County Council. It builds on the experience of the Scottish Government in delivering education in the highlands and islands. Sometimes, we are concerned about our rurality; well, delivering education in those circumstances, in a bilingual system, the same as we have, certainly is a challenge. I was delighted to launch the project at the high school in Lampeter, and I saw for myself the innovative delivery of a further maths lesson bilingually to pupils in that school and another school in Ceredigion. Without that project, the pupils in the other school simply would not be able to take further maths A-level, a qualification that is highly desired by some top universities. 

The e-sgol project is an important part of our rural schools education plan. The project is not designed to be a whole-Wales project. It is part of the solution to some of the logistical disadvantages of delivering education in a rural area. We will, of course, be evaluating the scheme in terms of value for money, but, more importantly, the impact that it has on the opportunities for students in rural areas, and if the scheme follows the success of the Scottish scheme, which I believe firmly that it will, then we will be looking to roll it out in other rural local authorities, because no matter where a child is educated in Wales, whether it be in an urban setting or a rural setting, they deserve to have the best possible opportunities. 

Rwy'n falch fod yr Aelod yn ymwybodol o brosiect arloesol e-sgol sydd, yn wir, yn cael ei dreialu ar gyfer Llywodraeth Cymru gan Gyngor Sir Ceredigion. Mae'n adeiladu ar brofiad Llywodraeth yr Alban o ddarparu addysg yn yr ucheldiroedd a'r ynysoedd. Weithiau, rydym yn poeni am ein gwledigrwydd; wel, mae darparu addysg o dan yr amgylchiadau hynny, mewn system ddwyieithog, fel yr un sydd gennym, yn sicr yn her. Roeddwn yn falch o lansio'r prosiect yn yr ysgol uwchradd yn Llanbedr Pont Steffan, a gwelais wers fathemateg bellach arloesol yn cael ei dysgu’n ddwyieithog i ddisgyblion yn yr ysgol honno ac i ysgol arall yng Ngheredigion. Heb y prosiect hwnnw, ni fyddai'r disgyblion yn yr ysgol arall yn gallu ymgymryd â chwrs mathemateg bellach Safon Uwch, cymhwyster sy’n atyniadol iawn i rai o’r prifysgolion gorau.

Mae prosiect e-sgol yn rhan bwysig o'n cynllun addysg ar gyfer ysgolion gwledig. Nid yw'r prosiect wedi'i gynllunio i fod yn brosiect ar gyfer Cymru gyfan. Mae'n rhan o'r ateb i rai o anfanteision logistaidd darparu addysg mewn ardal wledig. Wrth gwrs, byddwn yn gwerthuso'r cynllun o ran gwerth am arian, ond yn bwysicach fyth, yr effaith a gaiff ar gyfleoedd i fyfyrwyr mewn ardaloedd gwledig, ac os yw'r cynllun yn dilyn llwyddiant cynllun yr Alban, a chredaf yn gryf y bydd, byddwn yn ceisio'i gyflwyno mewn awdurdodau lleol gwledig eraill, oherwydd ni waeth lle y caiff plentyn ei addysg yng Nghymru, boed mewn lleoliad trefol neu leoliad gwledig, maent yn haeddu’r cyfleoedd gorau posibl.

13:35

Un o'r rhwystredigaethau mawr rydw i'n ei glywed gan athrawon, rhieni, ac ysgolion yw diffyg faint o ddyfeisiau sydd mewn ystafelloedd dosbarth—faint o dabledi neu faint o liniaduron sydd ar gael i ddisgyblion i'w defnyddio. Ac, wrth gwrs, rwy'n gwybod o brofiad personol fod nifer o ysgolion yn dibynnu nawr ar ymdrechion gwirfoddol rhieni, cymdeithasau rhieni, er enghraifft, i godi arian i brynu tabledi a gliniaduron digonol. Nawr, mae hynny, wrth gwrs, yn ein dyddiau ni, yn cyfateb i orfod dibynnu ar arian yn cael ei godi'n wirfoddol i brynu papur a beiros flynyddoedd yn ôl. A ydy hynny'n dderbyniol?

One of the major frustrations that I hear expressed by teachers, parents and schools is the shortage of devices in classrooms—the number of tablets or laptops that are available for pupils to use. I know from personal experience that many schools are now reliant on the voluntary efforts of parents and PTAs in raising funds to buy tablets and laptops. Now, that, of course, would account to having to rely, in our day, on voluntary contributions for paper and biros. Is that acceptable?

Well, Llyr, you are right—it is the individual responsibility of individual schools to ensure that they have the resources within those schools, and should plan accordingly. However, I'm aware that not all schools find themselves in the same position, and we've just talked about equity between urban and rural education, and no school should not have the facilities it needs within the school because of an inability to purchase them through other means. As I said in answer to Mandy Jones, as we move from having solved, hopefully, across Wales by March of this year, the problems relating to capacity in the infrastructure outside of schools, we can now turn our attention to what is a fair and equitable way in which we can support local authorities and schools to develop infrastructure within the classroom. That does need to be done in a fair and equitable way, and recognising that, in some areas, the devices that children have at home are probably more powerful than what they have available to them in schools. So, there is not necessarily a one-size-fits-all solution to this. But we will be working with officials in the LIDW branch to seek to prioritise what capital resources that we have, to ensure that schools have the equipment—whether that be stand-alone computers, or hand-held devices—and that schools, crucially, have the advice to know what to buy, and to ensure that, having bought that, teachers are in a position to be able to utilise it most effectively for the learning of pupils. And, again, we are looking at how we can, at a national level, provide that consistency of support, and maybe a menu of products and support, so that schools can make really good and prudent decisions when they invest these resources.

Wel, Llyr, rydych yn iawn—cyfrifoldeb pob ysgol unigol yw sicrhau bod ganddynt yr adnoddau yn yr ysgolion hynny, a dylent gynllunio yn unol â hynny. Fodd bynnag, rwy'n ymwybodol nad yw pob ysgol yn yr un sefyllfa, ac rydym newydd fod yn sôn am gydraddoldeb rhwng addysg wledig a threfol, ac ni ddylai unrhyw ysgol fynd heb y cyfleusterau sydd eu hangen arni yn yr ysgol oherwydd anallu i’w prynu drwy ddulliau eraill. Fel y dywedais yn fy ateb i Mandy Jones, wrth inni symud ymlaen ar ôl datrys, gobeithio, ledled Cymru erbyn mis Mawrth eleni, y problemau sy'n ymwneud â chapasiti yn y seilwaith y tu allan i ysgolion, gallwn droi ein sylw bellach at ffordd deg a chyfartal o gynorthwyo awdurdodau lleol ac ysgolion i ddatblygu’r seilwaith yn yr ystafell ddosbarth. Mae angen gwneud hynny mewn ffordd deg a chyfartal, a chydnabod, mewn rhai ardaloedd, fod y dyfeisiau sydd gan blant gartref yn fwy pwerus yn ôl pob tebyg na'r hyn sydd ar gael iddynt mewn ysgolion. Felly, nid oes un ateb sy'n addas i bawb i hyn o reidrwydd. Ond byddwn yn gweithio gyda swyddogion yng nghangen Dysgu yn y Gymru Ddigidol i geisio blaenoriaethu'r adnoddau cyfalaf sydd gennym, er mwyn sicrhau bod gan ysgolion yr offer—boed yn gyfrifiaduron annibynnol, neu’n ddyfeisiau llaw—a bod ysgolion, yn allweddol, yn cael cyngor i wybod beth i'w brynu, ac i sicrhau, ar ôl ei brynu, fod athrawon mewn sefyllfa i allu ei ddefnyddio yn y ffordd fwyaf effeithiol ar gyfer dysgu disgyblion. Ac unwaith eto, rydym yn ystyried sut y gallwn, ar lefel genedlaethol, ddarparu’r cysondeb hwnnw o ran cefnogaeth, a dewislen o gynhyrchion a chymorth efallai, fel y gall ysgolion wneud penderfyniadau gwirioneddol dda a doeth pan fyddant yn buddsoddi'r adnoddau hyn.

Gwella Safonau Ysgolion
Improving School Standards

2. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n eu cymryd i wella safonau ysgolion? OAQ53132

2. What action is the Welsh Government taking to improve school standards? OAQ53132

Thank you, Darren. Our national mission is to raise standards of education for our young people across the nation. We are developing new evaluation and improvement arrangements, which will further support school improvement, and I will update Members on those arrangements in the coming weeks.

Diolch, Darren. Ein cenhadaeth genedlaethol yw codi safonau addysg i'n pobl ifanc ledled y wlad. Rydym yn datblygu trefniadau gwerthuso a gwella newydd, a fydd yn cefnogi gwelliant ysgolion ymhellach, a byddaf yn rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Aelodau ynglŷn â’r trefniadau hynny yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf.

Minister, you will no doubt have seen the report in the Western Mail on Monday, where there were comments from quite a number of headteachers and teaching unions expressing a great deal of concern about the pressure that they are under. It described people being exhausted, stressed, unable to switch off, and some headteachers turning to drink as a result of the pressure that your Government is putting on schools at the moment, not just in terms of the reform agenda that is currently under way, but also in terms of finances. And, of course, we know that there is a funding gap per pupil between England and Wales. That's culminating in headteachers taking prolonged periods of absence. The report suggested that, over a three-year period, around eight years and 10 months had been lost, at least, in headteacher absences across Wales, and 108 headteachers had been off for more than six weeks. This is a concerning backdrop at a time when your Government is seeking to improve school standards. So, what are you doing to reduce the pressure on headteachers, particularly given the shortage of applications that are coming in for new headship posts when they become vacant?

Weinidog, heb os, byddwch wedi gweld yr adroddiad yn y Western Mail ddydd Llun, a oedd yn cynnwys sylwadau gan nifer fawr o benaethiaid ac undebau addysgu yn mynegi cryn bryder ynghylch y pwysau sydd arnynt. Dywedai fod pobl wedi ymlâdd, o dan straen, yn methu ag ymlacio, a rhai penaethiaid yn troi at alcohol o ganlyniad i'r pwysau y mae eich Llywodraeth yn ei roi ar ysgolion ar hyn o bryd, nid yn unig o ran yr agenda ddiwygio sydd ar waith ar hyn o bryd, ond hefyd o ran cyllid. Ac wrth gwrs, gwyddom fod bwlch cyllido fesul disgybl yn bodoli rhwng Cymru a Lloegr. Mae hynny'n arwain at benaethiaid ar gyfnodau hir o absenoldeb. Awgrymai'r adroddiad, dros gyfnod o dair blynedd, fod oddeutu wyth mlynedd a 10 mis wedi’u colli, o leiaf, mewn absenoldebau penaethiaid ledled Cymru, ac roedd 108 o benaethiaid wedi bod yn absennol am fwy na chwe wythnos. Mae hyn yn achos pryder mewn cyfnod pan fo'ch Llywodraeth yn ceisio gwella safonau ysgolion. Felly, beth rydych yn ei wneud i leihau'r pwysau ar benaethiaid, yn enwedig o ystyried prinder y ceisiadau am swyddi penaethiaid newydd pan fyddant yn dod yn wag?

Thank you for that question, Darren. Securing, nurturing, and inspiring school leaders now and for the future is an important priority for the national mission. That's why, last year, we launched the National Academy for Educational Leadership Wales, so that we can better support those who are already in the job, or those who aspire to leadership in our education system, to get the support that they need. There are statutory measures in place to support all employees, including teaching staff, to maintain their health and well-being. And, as you will be aware, we are undertaking work with how we can ensure that schools are places where well-being can be nurtured, and that's as important for the staff as it is for the pupils within the school. We will be working—. As you will be aware, a number of reports have been commissioned and workstreams are under way with regard to workload. One positive example has been the introduction of the business manager pilots, which takes tasks and duties away from headteachers so that they have got more time to think about curriculum and teaching and learning. And we will continue to work with our local authorities, the regional consortia and the headteacher unions themselves to see what more we can do. Of course, we demand high standards of our school leaders; they are integral to the delivery of the national mission, but obviously we want to do that in a way, as I said, that is nurturing and supportive, not punitive, and, of course, our reforms to curriculum assessment measures have an important part to play in that. 

Diolch am eich cwestiwn, Darren. Mae diogelu, meithrin, ac ysbrydoli arweinwyr ysgolion yn awr ac ar gyfer y dyfodol yn flaenoriaeth bwysig i'r genhadaeth genedlaethol. Dyna pam y lansiwyd Academi Genedlaethol Arweinyddiaeth Addysgol Cymru gennym y llynedd, fel y gallwn roi mwy o gefnogaeth i’r rheini sydd eisoes yn y swydd, neu'r rheini sydd ag uchelgais i arwain yn ein system addysg, i gael y cymorth sydd ei hangen arnynt. Ceir mesurau statudol ar waith i gynorthwyo pob gweithiwr, gan gynnwys staff addysgu, i gynnal eu hiechyd a'u lles. Ac fel y gwyddoch, rydym yn ymgymryd â gwaith ar sut y gallwn sicrhau bod ysgolion yn lleoedd lle y gellir meithrin lles, ac mae hynny cyn bwysiced ar gyfer y staff ag y mae ar gyfer y disgyblion yn yr ysgol. Byddwn yn gweithio—. Fel y gwyddoch, mae nifer o adroddiadau wedi eu comisiynu ac mae ffrydiau gwaith ar y gweill mewn perthynas â llwyth gwaith. Un enghraifft gadarnhaol oedd cyflwyno'r cynlluniau peilot rheolwyr busnes, sy’n mynd â thasgau a dyletswyddau o ddwylo penaethiaid fel bod ganddynt fwy o amser i feddwl am y cwricwlwm ac addysgu a dysgu. A byddwn yn parhau i weithio gyda'n hawdurdodau lleol, y consortia rhanbarthol ac undebau penaethiaid eu hunain i weld beth yn fwy y gallwn ei wneud. Wrth gwrs, rydym yn mynnu safonau uchel gan arweinwyr ein hysgolion; maent yn rhan annatod o’r gwaith o gyflawni'r genhadaeth genedlaethol, ond yn amlwg, rydym am wneud hynny mewn ffordd, fel y dywedais, sy’n meithrin ac sy’n gefnogol yn hytrach na chosbol, ac wrth gwrs, mae gan ein diwygiadau i fesurau asesu’r cwricwlwm ran bwysig i’w chwarae yn hynny o beth.

13:40

Minister, would you agree with me that we should recognise and celebrate excellent standards of education in Wales, such as those provided by St Julian's Primary School in my constituency, which had an Estyn inspection in October of last year that assessed them as having excellence right across the board? It's a just-under 700 pupil primary school. It's a pioneer school in terms of digital competency and professional learning. I'd very much like to pay tribute to the staff, the school governors, the parents and the children, and I'm sure you'd like to do the same. 

Weinidog, a fyddech yn cytuno â mi y dylem gydnabod a dathlu safonau addysg rhagorol yng Nghymru, megis rhai Ysgol Gynradd Sant Julian yn fy etholaeth, a gafodd arolygiad gan Estyn ym mis Hydref y llynedd a asesodd eu bod yn rhagorol ym mhob categori? Mae'n ysgol gynradd ag ychydig o dan 700 o ddisgyblion. Mae'n ysgol arloesi o ran cymhwysedd digidol a dysgu proffesiynol. Hoffwn dalu teyrnged i'r staff, llywodraethwyr yr ysgol, y rhieni a'r plant, ac rwy'n siŵr yr hoffech chi wneud yr un peth.

John, you're absolutely right—we need to challenge underperformance where we find it in the Welsh education system, but we also need to recognise and celebrate success where we find it in the Welsh education system. Too often, we are ready to talk our teaching processionals and their efforts down. St Julian's Primary School—a school that I've had the privilege to visit to see the work that they are doing in terms of digital competency—is a fantastic school that does a wonderful, wonderful job for the children who attend. I would like to join you in paying tribute to the work of the headteacher and the team at St Julian's. Of course, I look forward to joining them, because, if they've been given 'excellent' by Estyn, they will be at the Estyn annual awards dinner and I will have a chance to congratulate them personally, which I will look forward to doing. 

John, rydych yn llygad eich lle—mae angen inni herio tangyflawniad pan y'i gwelwn yn y system addysg yng Nghymru, ond mae angen inni hefyd gydnabod a dathlu llwyddiant pan y'i gwelwn yn y system addysg yng Nghymru. Yn rhy aml, rydym yn barod i ladd ar ein gweithwyr addysgu proffesiynol a'u hymdrechion. Mae Ysgol Gynradd Sant Julian—ysgol rwyf wedi cael y fraint o ymweld â hi er mwyn gweld y gwaith a wnânt o ran cymhwysedd digidol—yn ysgol wych sy'n gwneud gwaith ardderchog ar gyfer y plant hynny sy'n ei mynychu. Hoffwn ymuno â chi i dalu teyrnged i waith y pennaeth a'r tîm yn ysgol Sant Julian. Wrth gwrs, edrychaf ymlaen at ymuno â hwy, oherwydd, os ydynt wedi cael dyfarniad 'rhagorol' gan Estyn, byddant yng nghinio gwobrau blynyddol Estyn, a chaf gyfle i'w llongyfarch wyneb yn wyneb, ac edrychaf ymlaen at wneud hynny.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cyfle nawr i lefarwyr y pleidiau ofyn cwestiynau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Suzy Davies. 

A chance now for party spokespeople to ask questions. The Conservative spokesperson. Suzy Davies. 

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. I'm sure you're expecting me to return to the Western Mail report today, Minister, which I do. Darren Millar mentioned that school leaders are feeling exhausted and under threat and particularly

'unable to cope with impossible demands set from on high by a range of bureaucratic people'. 

After citing funding, which you probably would expect, and retention and recruitment problems, those headteachers added that the—and I'm quoting from them—

'the best education systems do not recruit talent and then constrain them with top-down policy or an overly centralised...school leadership.'

And, of course, as leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats in the past, you will have agreed with the manifesto in 2016, which stated that,

'Teachers deliver the best results when they are given flexibility and support, not smothered by bureaucracy. We will provide more freedom for teachers and greater flexibility to our schools.'

The National Academy for Educational Leadership—can you explain who is shaping and driving that to avoid any concerns that this too is about impossible demands set from on high by a range of bureaucratic people? 

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Rwy'n siŵr eich bod yn disgwyl imi ddychwelyd at yr adroddiad yn y Western Mail heddiw, Weinidog, ac rwyf am wneud hynny. Soniodd Darren Millar fod arweinwyr ysgolion yn teimlo wedi ymlâdd ac o dan fygythiad ac yn fwyaf arbennig

yn methu ymdopi â gofynion amhosibl a bennir oddi fry gan amrywiaeth o bobl fiwrocrataidd.

Ar ôl nodi cyllid, a byddech yn disgwyl hynny, mae'n debyg, a phroblemau recriwtio a chadw staff, ychwanegodd y penaethiaid hyn—ac rwy'n eu dyfynnu—

nad yw'r systemau addysg gorau yn recriwtio talent ac yn cyfyngu arnynt wedyn gyda pholisi o'r brig i'r bôn neu gydag arweinyddiaeth ysgolion... wedi'i gor-ganoli.

Ac wrth gwrs, fel arweinydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru yn y gorffennol, byddwch wedi cytuno gyda'r maniffesto yn 2016, a ddywedai,

'Mae athrawon yn cyflawni'r canlyniadau gorau pan gânt hyblygrwydd a chefnogaeth, nid eu llethu gan fiwrocratiaeth. Byddwn yn darparu mwy o ryddid i athrawon a mwy o hyblygrwydd i'n hysgolion.'

Yr Academi Genedlaethol Arweinyddiaeth Addysgol—a allwch egluro pwy sy'n ei llunio ac yn ei llywio er mwyn osgoi unrhyw bryderon fod hyn hefyd yn ymwneud â gofynion amhosibl a bennir oddi fry gan amrywiaeth o bobl fiwrocrataidd?

My views have not changed since that manifesto was written. That's why we are reforming the curriculum, to move away from the tick-box expectations that we currently require our schools to undertake. That's why we are investing in support for self-evaluation for schools, so they themselves become the best judge of their own performance, because I believe that they are best placed then to understand where they are and how they can improve. That's why we're investing in class sizes, so that those teachers have the time that they need to spend with individual children, and that's why, indeed, we're investing in a National Academy for Educational Leadership to support our headteachers with the training and continuing professional learning so that they can be the very best they can be. I see no difference in that approach from what I would have taken if I was still sitting on that side of the Chamber. What we know is that, if we can build capacity within our own education system, that's the best way to deliver the national mission. 

Nid yw fy marn wedi newid ers i'r maniffesto gael ei ysgrifennu. Dyna pam rydym yn diwygio'r cwricwlwm, i ymbellhau oddi wrth y disgwyliadau ticio blychau rydym yn gofyn i'n hysgolion eu cyflawni ar hyn o bryd. Dyna pam rydym yn buddsoddi mewn cymorth hunanarfarnu ar gyfer ysgolion, fel mai hwy eu hunain a fydd orau am farnu eu perfformiad eu hunain, gan y credaf eu bod yn y sefyllfa orau wedyn i ddeall lle maent arni a sut y gallant wella. Dyna pam rydym yn buddsoddi mewn meintiau dosbarthiadau, er mwyn sicrhau bod gan yr athrawon hynny yr amser sydd ei angen arnynt i'w dreulio gyda phlant unigol, a dyna'n wir pam ein bod yn buddsoddi mewn Academi Genedlaethol Arweinyddiaeth Addysgol i gefnogi ein penaethiaid gyda'r hyfforddiant a'r dysgu proffesiynol parhaus fel y gallant fod y gorau y gallant fod. Ni welaf unrhyw wahaniaeth rhwng yr ymagwedd honno a'r ymagwedd a fyddai gennyf pe bawn yn dal i eistedd ar yr ochr honno i'r Siambr. Yr hyn a wyddom yw, os gallwn adeiladu capasiti o fewn ein system addysg ein hunain, dyna'r ffordd orau o gyflawni'r genhadaeth genedlaethol.

Well, we wouldn't disagree with you on that, of course, because a similar academy was in our Welsh Conservatives manifesto, and we would like to see a very successful version of that providing the results that I hope we would all see. My question was: who is actually driving that? Is it going to be civil servants who design it or is it going to be teachers? You heard from me about the concerns on self-evaluation yesterday, and I look forward to hearing a bit more from you as time goes on about how that will look.

But let's look at that curriculum reform that you were talking about. Earlier this week, those same headteachers criticised the pace of change in schools as secondary schools are—again, I'm quoting—

'dealing with reformed GCSEs and A levels at the same time as trying to prepare for the new curriculum',

something that was supported in principle by the Welsh Local Government Association, who told the Children, Young People and Education Committee in their written evidence that

'not enough of what actually matters has been included in the AoLEs…too many statements are generic, poorly defined and weak on knowledge and skills development',

and this being likely to result in pupils' development being left to chance, and a total of 30 areas of learning and experience will be 

'particularly challenging for primary teachers where the load is not shared across departments/faculties.'

And, finally, most damning of all, while the

'landscape is awash with experts getting “excited” about curriculum reform…the reality is that workload-weary teachers will have to try to make it work on the ground.'

Now, you're ring-fencing an awful lot of money to train teachers for this new curriculum—for this—when we're not really clear what 'this' means, and at the same time, that means there is money not going into school budgets, which is not enabling teacher freedom and which is not enabling greater flexibilities for schools. How are you responding to the fears raised by both the headteachers and the WLGA that the curriculum, which is meant to be ready for next year, isn't going to be on time in any clear and meaningful way and what are you going to do about it?

Wel, ni fyddem yn anghytuno â chi ynglŷn â hynny, wrth gwrs, gan fod maniffesto'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn cynnwys academi debyg, a hoffem weld fersiwn lwyddiannus iawn o hynny yn darparu'r canlyniadau y gobeithiaf y byddai pob un ohonom yn eu gweld. Fy nghwestiwn oedd: pwy sy'n llywio hynny mewn gwirionedd? Ai gweision sifil a fydd yn ei llunio, neu athrawon? Clywsoch gennyf ynghylch y pryderon ynglŷn â hunanarfarnu ddoe, ac edrychaf ymlaen at glywed mwy gennych maes o law ynglŷn â sut y bydd hynny'n edrych.

Ond gadewch inni edrych ar y gwaith a grybwyllwyd gennych o ddiwygio'r cwricwlwm. Yn gynharach yr wythnos hon, beirniadwyd cyflymder y newid mewn ysgolion gan yr un penaethiaid, gan fod ysgolion uwchradd—unwaith eto, rwy'n dyfynnu—

yn ymdrin â TGAU a Safon Uwch diwygiedig ar yr un pryd ag y maent yn ceisio paratoi ar gyfer y cwricwlwm newydd,

rhywbeth a gefnogwyd mewn egwyddor gan Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, a ddywedodd wrth y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg yn eu tystiolaeth ysgrifenedig

nad oes digon o'r hyn sy'n wirioneddol bwysig wedi'i gynnwys yn y Meysydd Dysgu a Phrofiad... mae gormod o'r datganiadau yn rhai generig, wedi'u diffinio'n wael ac yn wan o ran gwybodaeth a datblygu sgiliau,

a bod hyn yn debygol o arwain at ddatblygiad disgyblion yn cael ei adael i ffawd, ac y bydd cyfanswm o 30 maes dysgu a phrofiad yn

arbennig o heriol i athrawon cynradd lle nad yw'r llwyth yn cael ei rannu ar draws adrannau/cyfadrannau.

Ac yn olaf, yn fwyaf damniol oll, tra bo'r

tirlun yn gorlifo ag arbenigwyr yn "cynhyrfu" ynglŷn â diwygio'r cwricwlwm... y realiti yw y bydd yn rhaid i athrawon o dan bwysau llwyth gwaith geisio gwneud iddo weithio ar lawr gwlad.

Nawr, rydych yn clustnodi llawer iawn o arian i hyfforddi athrawon ar gyfer y cwricwlwm newydd hwn—ar gyfer hyn—pan nad ydym yn deall yn iawn beth yw ystyr 'hyn', ac ar yr un pryd, golyga hynny fod arian i'w gael nad yw'n mynd i gyllidebau ysgolion, ac nid yw hynny'n rhoi rhyddid i athrawon nac yn rhoi mwy o hyblygrwydd i ysgolion. Sut rydych yn ymateb i'r pryderon a fynegwyd gan y penaethiaid a CLlLC na fydd y cwricwlwm, sydd i fod yn barod ar gyfer y flwyddyn nesaf, ar amser mewn unrhyw ffordd glir ac ystyrlon, a beth a wnewch ynglŷn â hynny?

13:45

Can I assure the Member, with regard to who is driving forward the National Academy for Educational Leadership, the academy is led by an ex-headteacher. He is supported by a range of associates to the academy, all of whom are current practitioners, who are leading schools in our nation and they are, for the leadership of our education system, designing and accrediting new professional learning opportunities for them. The very same can be said about the curriculum.

The WLGA says that it is teachers who will be responsible for delivering it on a day-to-day basis—of course they are, and that's why it is teachers themselves and our pioneer schools that have designed the curriculum. This isn't a bureaucrat in the Welsh Government who is telling teachers what they will teach in the future—it is our teachers, who are currently out there in our system now, who are designing our curriculum in a way that they believe will best suit their colleagues on the ground.

I must admit to being a little concerned in some of the evidence that the WLGA has provided to the CYPE committee. I'm sure we will want to discuss that in more detail tomorrow. In some ways, it shows a general lack of understanding of the reforms and how they will work in practice, but clearly there is an emphasis on us then to make sure that they are clearly in the picture on how this will work. And it's also to say that much of the feedback that they have reported on seems to relate to where we were in the curriculum reform journey back in July.

However, there are issues that will need to be addressed in the evidence that they have put forward and, indeed, that's why I made the decision 12 months ago to delay the roll-out of the curriculum to ensure that we did have enough time for all of our schools, both primary and secondary, to prepare for this and to ensure that our teachers had the professional learning opportunities that they will need to turn the new curriculum into an exciting reality for Welsh schoolchildren.

A gaf fi roi sicrwydd i'r Aelod, o ran pwy sy'n llywio'r Academi Genedlaethol Arweinyddiaeth Addysgol, fod yr academi'n cael ei harwain gan gyn-bennaeth. Fe'i cefnogir gan amrywiaeth o bartneriaid cyswllt i'r academi, pob un ohonynt yn addysgwr cyfredol sy'n arwain ysgolion yn ein gwlad, ac ar gyfer arweinyddiaeth ein system addysg, maent yn llunio ac yn achredu cyfleoedd dysgu proffesiynol newydd ar eu cyfer. Gellir dweud yr un peth yn union am y cwricwlwm.

Dywed CLlLC mai athrawon a fydd yn gyfrifol am ei ddarparu o ddydd i ddydd—wrth gwrs hynny, a dyna pam mai athrawon eu hunain a'n hysgolion arloesi sydd wedi cynllunio'r cwricwlwm. Nid biwrocrat yn Llywodraeth Cymru yn dweud wrth athrawon beth fyddant yn ei addysgu yn y dyfodol yw hyn—ein hathrawon, sydd allan yno yn awr yn ein system, sy'n cynllunio ein cwricwlwm yn y ffordd y credant sy'n gweddu orau i'w cydweithwyr ar lawr gwlad.

Mae'n rhaid imi gyfaddef fy mod ychydig yn bryderus ynglŷn â rhywfaint o'r dystiolaeth a ddarparwyd gan CLlLC i'r Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg. Rwy'n siŵr y byddwn yn awyddus i drafod hynny'n fwy manwl yfory. Mewn rhai ffyrdd, mae'n dangos diffyg dealltwriaeth gyffredinol o'r diwygiadau a sut y byddant yn gweithio yn ymarferol, ond yn amlwg, ceir pwysau arnom ni wedyn i sicrhau eu bod yn deall yn iawn sut y bydd hyn yn gweithio. Ac mae hefyd yn dweud bod llawer o'r adborth y maent wedi adrodd arno i'w weld yn ymwneud â lle'r oeddem ar y daith i ddiwygio'r cwricwlwm yn ôl ym mis Gorffennaf.

Fodd bynnag, ceir materion y bydd angen mynd i'r afael â hwy yn y dystiolaeth a gyflwynwyd ganddynt, ac yn wir, dyna pam y gwneuthum y penderfyniad 12 mis yn ôl i oedi cyn cyflwyno'r cwricwlwm er mwyn sicrhau bod gennym ddigon o amser i bob un o'n hysgolion, cynradd ac uwchradd, baratoi ar gyfer hyn ac i sicrhau bod ein hathrawon yn cael y cyfleoedd dysgu proffesiynol y bydd eu hangen arnynt i droi'r cwricwlwm newydd yn realiti cyffrous ar gyfer plant ysgol Cymru.

Well, I'm thinking that this should be an area of concern for you, then, because if the WLGA doesn't seem to understand what a teacher-designed system is going to look like, how on earth are they going to be able to help distribute the money that you're giving them now, through this ring-fenced system, to help encourage teachers to learn how to deliver a system that they themselves have designed but that the WLGA doesn't understand.

Can we just move on now to the education improvement grant that you've decided to cut by 10 per cent this year? One of the key aims, of course, of the education improvement grant was to address learners' barriers to learning and to improve inclusion, which I'm sure we would all appreciate. In areas with high levels of Welsh language education, such as Gwynedd, it is entirely reasonable to foresee that one of the those barriers to education could be a lack of Welsh language skills for people moving into the area. When you took the decision to cut the education improvement grant, I wonder if you could explain to me what assessment was carried out to see what effect that decision would have on providers who were helping people moving to the area to improve their Welsh language skills in order to access their education. And also, on the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child and the rights of those children to an education, in making the cuts and in moving this service, I suspect that there's going to be a problem in evidencing the fact that children's right to an education is being properly observed. Thank you.

Wel, credaf y dylai hyn fod yn achos pryder i chi, felly, oherwydd os nad ymddengys bod CLlLC yn deall sut y bydd system a gynlluniwyd gan athrawon yn edrych, sut ar y ddaear y gallant helpu i ddosbarthu'r arian rydych yn ei roi iddynt yn awr, drwy'r system a glustnodwyd, i helpu i annog athrawon i ddysgu sut i ddarparu system a luniwyd ganddynt hwy eu hunain ond nad yw CLlLC yn ei deall.

A gawn ni symud ymlaen at y grant gwella addysg rydych wedi penderfynu ei leihau 10 y cant eleni? Un o brif nodau'r grant gwella addysg, wrth gwrs, oedd mynd i'r afael â rhwystrau dysgu i ddysgwyr a gwella cynhwysiant, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddai pob un ohonom yn gwerthfawrogi hynny. Mewn ardaloedd â lefelau uchel o addysg Gymraeg, fel Gwynedd, mae'n gwbl resymol rhagweld y gallai diffyg sgiliau Cymraeg fod yn un o'r rhwystrau hynny i addysg ar gyfer pobl sy'n symud i'r ardal. Pan wnaethoch y penderfyniad i dorri'r grant gwella addysg, tybed a allwch egluro i mi pa asesiad a gynhaliwyd i weld pa effaith y byddai'r penderfyniad hwnnw'n ei chael ar ddarparwyr a oedd yn helpu pobl sy'n symud i'r ardal i wella eu sgiliau yn y Gymraeg er mwyn cael mynediad at eu haddysg. A hefyd, o ran Confensiwn y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar Hawliau'r Plentyn a hawliau'r plant hynny i addysg, wrth wneud y toriadau hyn ac wrth symud y gwasanaeth hwn, rwy'n tybio y bydd yn creu problem o ran gallu dangos tystiolaeth fod hawl plant i addysg yn cael ei pharchu'n briodol. Diolch.

Presiding Officer, If I could correct the Member correct the Member, it is not the WLGA or local authorities that will decide how the professional learning moneys are spent. The moneys will be made available via a grant via individual local authorities. It is schools for themselves and headteachers themselves that will decide how their allocation for professional learning will be spent. It's not the WLGA or individual local authorities, although the money goes via that particular route. It is those headteachers and those individual schools who are best placed to understand the professional learning needs of their staff so that they can realise the curriculum.

Tough choices, Presiding Officer, have to be made around budgets; these have been well rehearsed in the education committee. There is a balance to be struck between what money is made available to local authorities, which is of course where schools receive most of their funding from, and what grants are held centrally from Government. As I said, difficult decisions have to be made, but I am confident in the ability of both the authority in Gwynedd and the regional consortia and those that are committed to giving children the opportunity to learn Welsh language skills should they arrive in that county and that they will be able to do so successfully, and these issues have not been raised with me by Gwynedd.

Lywydd, os caf gywiro'r Aelod, nid CLlLC neu'r awdurdodau lleol a fydd yn penderfynu sut y bydd yr arian dysgu proffesiynol yn cael ei wario. Bydd yr arian ar gael drwy grant drwy awdurdodau lleol unigol. Yr ysgolion eu hunain a'r penaethiaid eu hunain a fydd yn penderfynu sut y gwerir eu dyraniad ar gyfer dysgu proffesiynol. Nid CLlLC neu awdurdodau lleol unigol fydd yn gwneud hynny, er y bydd yr arian yn cael ei ddarparu drwy'r llwybr penodol hwnnw. Y penaethiaid hynny a'r ysgolion unigol hynny sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i ddeall anghenion dysgu proffesiynol eu staff fel y gallant wireddu'r cwricwlwm.

Mae'n rhaid gwneud dewisiadau anodd ynglŷn â chyllidebau, Lywydd; mae'r rhain wedi eu hailadrodd sawl tro yn y pwyllgor addysg. Mae angen sicrhau cydbwysedd rhwng faint o arian a ryddheir i awdurdodau lleol, sef lle y caiff ysgolion y rhan fwyaf o'u cyllid, wrth gwrs, a pha grantiau a ddelir yn ganolog gan y Llywodraeth. Fel y dywedais, mae'n rhaid gwneud penderfyniadau anodd, ond mae gennyf hyder yng ngallu'r awdurdod yng Ngwynedd a'r consortia rhanbarthol a'r rheini sydd wedi ymrwymo i roi cyfle i blant ddysgu sgiliau iaith Gymraeg os byddant yn dod i'r sir honno, ac y byddant yn gallu gwneud hynny'n llwyddiannus, ac nid yw Gwynedd wedi codi'r materion hyn gyda mi.

13:50

Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Bethan Sayed.

Plaid Cymru Spokesperson, Bethan Sayed.

Whilst Plaid Cymru has been supportive of some of the changes that you've made in relation to schools, when it comes to post-16 education, some of the people that I've talked to have said that they believe that the Government have taken their eye off the ball. Even the former Minister—I'm not sure of the title at the time—said that further education was not given a priority. Do you agree with that statement? Do you think that the Welsh Government have taken their eye off the ball?

Er bod Plaid Cymru wedi bod yn gefnogol i rai o'r newidiadau rydych wedi'u gwneud mewn perthynas ag ysgolion, o ran addysg ôl-16, mae rhai o'r bobl rwyf wedi siarad â hwy wedi dweud eu bod yn credu bod y Llywodraeth wedi bod yn esgeulus. Mae hyd yn oed y cyn-Weinidog—nid wyf yn siŵr o'r teitl ar y pryd—wedi dweud na roddwyd blaenoriaeth i addysg bellach. A ydych yn cytuno gyda'r datganiad hwnnw? A ydych yn credu bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn esgeulus?

Well, I am delighted to have now assumed responsibility for FE in the recent change to Cabinet responsibilities and I look forward to working really closely with ColegauCymru to ensure that FE, which is one of the stars of Welsh education in the provision that it provides, both in terms of traditional A-level courses or vocational courses or adult returner courses—it's a real strength within our system and I look forward very much to working alongside them. I'm very glad that, prior to Christmas, we were able to assist them with additional resources around issues with regard to pay for people who work so successfully in that sector. 

Wel, rwy'n falch iawn fy mod bellach yn gyfrifol am addysg bellach wedi'r newid diweddar i gyfrifoldebau'r Cabinet ac edrychaf ymlaen at weithio'n agos iawn gyda ColegauCymru i sicrhau bod addysg bellach, un o drysorau addysg Cymru o ran y ddarpariaeth y mae'n ei chynnig, o ran cyrsiau Safon Uwch traddodiadol neu gyrsiau galwedigaethol neu gyrsiau i oedolion sy'n dychwelyd i addysg—mae'n gryfder gwirioneddol yn ein system ac edrychaf ymlaen yn fawr iawn at weithio ochr yn ochr â hwy. Rwy'n falch iawn ein bod, cyn y Nadolig, wedi gallu eu cynorthwyo gydag adnoddau ychwanegol mewn perthynas â materion yn ymwneud â chyflogau i bobl sy'n gweithio mor llwyddiannus yn y sector hwnnw.

Thank you for the reply. I appreciate elements of this is new, but, obviously, higher education isn't new. We've seen major pressures in the college sector, strikes averted at the eleventh hour, but that doesn't take away from the fact that workload pressure is still a reality. We need to see progress on Hazelkorn and on FE legislation. Where is that in the round? There are major governance issues in higher education. We've seen the vice-chancellor of Bangor having left the post recently, and serious financial difficulties there and in Cardiff with £21 million of cutbacks. If the eye hasn't been taken off the ball, what are you doing to try and alleviate some of these issues that I've just outlined here today?

Diolch am eich ateb. Rwy'n derbyn bod elfennau o hyn yn newydd, ond yn amlwg, nid yw addysg uwch yn newydd. Rydym wedi gweld pwysau sylweddol yn y sector colegau, gyda streiciau'n cael eu hosgoi ar y funud olaf, ond nid yw hynny'n tynnu dim oddi wrth y ffaith bod pwysau llwyth gwaith yn dal i fodoli. Mae angen inni weld cynnydd ar Hazelkorn ac ar ddeddfwriaeth addysg bellach. Lle mae hynny yn y darlun mawr? Ceir problemau llywodraethu sylweddol ym maes addysg uwch. Rydym wedi gweld is-ganghellor Bangor yn gadael ei swydd yn ddiweddar, a'r anawsterau ariannol difrifol yno ac yng Nghaerdydd gyda £21 miliwn o doriadau. Os nad ydych wedi bod yn esgeulus, beth rydych yn ei wneud i geisio lliniaru rhai o'r materion hyn rwyf newydd eu hamlinellu yma heddiw?

Well, of course, higher education institutions are autonomous bodies and they are responsible for how they run themselves and their financial viability. What we're doing about it is implementing the findings of the Diamond review, which will see us move to a much more sustainable way of funding HE in the future. 

Wel, wrth gwrs, mae sefydliadau addysg uwch yn gyrff annibynnol ac maent yn gyfrifol am y modd y maent yn rhedeg eu hunain a'u hyfywedd ariannol. Yr hyn rydym yn ei wneud am y peth yw rhoi canfyddiadau adolygiad Diamond ar waith, a fydd yn ein harwain at ddull llawer mwy cynaliadwy o ariannu addysg uwch yn y dyfodol.

Thank you for that answer, of course, but I think many of the universities would say back to that that they need imminent support because they are making those cutbacks in the here and now, and any intervention that you can make as Minister would be welcome.

I'd like to turn finally to Swansea University and governance issues in higher education. Yesterday, my colleague Helen Mary Jones asked a business question in relation to this and was told that the Welsh Government couldn't comment on an ongoing investigation. Now, a Swansea University spokesperson told the BBC yesterday that a thorough investigation had taken place before the suspensions, but then in the same statement said that there is an ongoing investigation. So, which is it? Can you clarify here today? The vice-chancellor himself has said that no material evidence was provided to him prior to the suspension and that there has been a serious breach of due process. This is a respected vice-chancellor of 15 years who has been suspended. He was barred from his home, under which university rules say is his home—he's required to live in it. I've been told that the process of investigating has actually stalled and not much is happening at all, and I've also been told that there's anger and concern regarding the way in which all this has been conducted. We are talking about a major institution here in Swansea, bringing economic returns for the area that know no bounds in relation to the work that has been happening in the school of management, for example, in the last few years. We've also seen that the university court has been postponed. Why is the governance element of the university being postponed at short notice, without telling Assembly Members why this is?

I, personally, don't believe that it's good enough for you to say that you have no comment to make. What are you going to do to hold these institutions to account to ensure that the governance process is adhered to appropriately and that we can be assured that Higher Education Funding Council for Wales money is being spent in the right and proper way, so that we all here can hold this Government and the university sector to account? Do we need reform in the governance of universities here in Wales? 

Diolch am eich ateb, wrth gwrs, ond credaf y byddai llawer o'r prifysgolion yn ateb hynny drwy ddweud bod angen cymorth brys arnynt gan eu bod yn gwneud y toriadau hynny ar hyn o bryd, ac y byddai unrhyw ymyriad y gallwch ei wneud fel Gweinidog yn cael croeso.

Hoffwn droi, yn olaf, at Brifysgol Abertawe a phroblemau llywodraethu ym maes addysg uwch. Ddoe, gofynnodd fy nghyd-Aelod Helen Mary Jones gwestiwn busnes mewn perthynas â hyn a dywedwyd wrthi na allai Llywodraeth Cymru wneud sylwadau ar ymchwiliad sydd ar y gweill. Nawr, dywedodd llefarydd ar ran Prifysgol Abertawe wrth y BBC ddoe fod ymchwiliad trylwyr wedi'i gynnal cyn yr ataliadau dros dro, ond yn yr un datganiad, dywedodd fod ymchwiliad ar y gweill. Felly, pa un sy'n wir? A allwch egluro hynny yma heddiw? Mae'r is-ganghellor ei hun wedi dweud na ddarparwyd unrhyw dystiolaeth berthnasol iddo cyn iddo gael ei atal a bod yma dramgwydd difrifol yn erbyn y drefn briodol. Dyma is-ganghellor uchel ei barch ers 15 mlynedd sydd wedi'i atal o'i swydd. Fe'i gwaharddwyd o'i gartref, sef y man y dywed rheolau'r brifysgol yw ei gartref—mae gofyn iddo fyw ynddo. Rwyf wedi clywed bod y broses o ymchwilio wedi dod i stop ac nad oes llawer yn digwydd o gwbl, ac rwyf hefyd wedi clywed bod dicter a phryder ynghylch y ffordd y cyflawnwyd hyn oll. Rydym yn sôn am sefydliad pwysig yma yn Abertawe, sy'n dod â manteision economaidd di-ben-draw i'r ardal o ran y gwaith sydd wedi bod yn mynd rhagddo yn yr ysgol reolaeth, er enghraifft, dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf. Rydym hefyd wedi gweld bod llys y brifysgol wedi'i ohirio. Pam fod elfen lywodraethu'r brifysgol yn cael ei gohirio ar fyr rybudd, heb ddweud pam wrth Aelodau'r Cynulliad?

Yn bersonol, ni chredaf ei bod yn ddigon da ichi ddweud nad oes gennych unrhyw sylwadau i'w gwneud. Beth y bwriadwch ei wneud i ddwyn y sefydliadau hyn i gyfrif er mwyn sicrhau y cedwir at y broses lywodraethu yn briodol ac y gellir rhoi sicrwydd inni fod cyllid Cyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru yn cael ei wario yn y ffordd iawn a phriodol, fel y gall pob un ohonom yma ddwyn y Llywodraeth hon a'r sector prifysgolion i gyfrif? A oes angen diwygio llywodraethiant prifysgolion yma yng Nghymru?

13:55

Only this morning, at the economic development committee, we spent a great deal of time—I spent a great deal of time—being told of the importance of universities remaining autonomous institutions, without interference from the Government. There is an ongoing internal investigation being carried out by Swansea University, and it would be completely—completely—inappropriate for me to comment on the substance of that whilst that investigation is ongoing. 

HEFCW are in touch with Swansea University and carrying out an overview to satisfy themselves that things are being done properly, but it would be completely inappropriate for me, in this setting, to comment on an ongoing internal disciplinary investigation of an autonomous institution.

Y bore yma, yn y pwyllgor datblygu economaidd, treuliasom gryn dipyn o amser—fe dreuliais gryn dipyn o amser—yn gwrando ar ba mor bwysig yw hi fod prifysgolion yn parhau'n sefydliadau annibynnol, heb ymyrraeth gan y Llywodraeth. Mae Prifysgol Abertawe yn cynnal ymchwiliad mewnol ar hyn o bryd, a byddai'n gwbl—yn gwbl—amhriodol imi wneud sylwadau ar hynny tra bo'r ymchwiliad yn mynd rhagddo.

Mae CCAUC mewn cysylltiad â Phrifysgol Abertawe ac yn cynnal trosolwg i fodloni eu hunain fod pethau'n cael eu gwneud yn gywir, ond byddai'n gwbl amhriodol i mi, yn y lle hwn, roi sylwadau ar ymchwiliad disgyblu mewnol sydd ar y gweill mewn sefydliad annibynnol.

Llefarydd UKIP, Michelle Brown.

UKIP spokesperson, Michelle Brown.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. The children's commissioner and anti-bullying charities have called for statutory recording of all bullying incidents. The Welsh Government said in 2017 that it was reviewing the policy. Have you finished the review yet? If not, why has it been taking so long? 

Diolch, Lywydd. Mae'r comisiynydd plant ac elusennau gwrthfwlio wedi galw am gofnodi pob achos o fwlio yn statudol. Yn 2017, dywedodd Llywodraeth Cymru ei bod yn adolygu'r polisi. A ydych wedi gorffen yr adolygiad eto? Os nad ydych, pam ei bod wedi cymryd cymaint o amser?

We are currently carrying out and in the middle of—I'm surprised the Member isn't aware—we are currently in the middle of a public consultation on future anti-bullying strategies in Welsh education. That consultation is ongoing at this moment.

Ar hyn o bryd, rydym wrthi'n cynnal—rwy'n synnu nad yw'r Aelod yn gwybod—rydym wrthi'n cynnal ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus ar strategaethau gwrthfwlio ar gyfer y dyfodol yn y maes addysg yng Nghymru. Mae'r ymgynghoriad hwnnw'n mynd rhagddo ar hyn o bryd.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. The question, really, is: you're saying that there's a consultation ongoing at the moment—fair enough, there's a consultation. However, bullying in schools isn't a new issue. This has been a devolved matter for a long time now. Why is it only now that you're coming up, or only relatively recently coming up, with a consultation? Are you going to propose that there is statutory recording of bullying? Are you going to treat bullying in the same way as other incidents? 

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Y cwestiwn, mewn gwirionedd, yw: dywedwch fod ymgynghoriad parhaus yn mynd rhagddo ar hyn o bryd—mae hynny'n ddigon teg, mae ymgynghoriad ar waith. Fodd bynnag, nid yw bwlio mewn ysgolion yn fater newydd. Mae hwn wedi bod yn fater datganoledig ers tro byd bellach. Pam mai yn awr, neu'n gymharol ddiweddar, y rhoddwyd ymgynghoriad ar waith gennych? A ydych yn mynd i argymell y dylid cofnodi bwlio'n statudol? A fyddwch yn trin bwlio yr un ffordd â digwyddiadau eraill?

Clearly, there is a current Welsh Government anti-bullying strategy and anti-bullying guidance that is issued to schools—that exists at the moment. I believe that that is unwieldy. I believe that it is not helpful to schools, and we have not made it easy for schools to deal effectively with this very important issue. That's why we're carrying out the consultation now, at this very moment, to improve the support that is available to schools. Young people, schools and anybody with an interest—I would urge them to respond to that consultation.

This work also sits alongside the work that we are doing to ensure that schools become institutions where the well-being of all pupils and staff is at the forefront of that work. So, this is just one of a number of streams where we want to ensure that Welsh schools are happy places to work and learn in, because what we do know is that unless we address children's well-being, we cannot expect them to excel academically.

Yn amlwg, mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru strategaeth wrthfwlio gyfredol a chanllawiau gwrthfwlio a roddir i ysgolion—mae hynny'n digwydd eisoes. Credaf fod hynny'n anhylaw. Credaf nad yw'n ddefnyddiol i ysgolion, ac nad ydym wedi gwneud pethau'n hawdd i ysgolion ymdrin yn effeithiol â'r mater tra phwysig hwn. Dyna pam ein bod yn cynnal yr ymgynghoriad yn awr, ar yr union adeg hon, i wella'r cymorth sydd ar gael i ysgolion. Pobl ifanc, ysgolion ac unrhyw un sydd â diddordeb—buaswn yn eu hannog i ymateb i'r ymgynghoriad hwnnw.

Mae'r gwaith hwn hefyd yn sefyll ochr yn ochr â'r gwaith a wnawn i sicrhau bod ysgolion yn dod yn sefydliadau lle y mae lles yr holl ddisgyblion a'r staff yn ganolog i'r gwaith hwnnw. Felly, mae hon yn un o nifer o ffrydiau lle rydym am sicrhau bod ysgolion Cymru yn lleoedd hapus i weithio ac i ddysgu ynddynt, oherwydd oni bai ein bod yn rhoi sylw i les plant, gwyddom na allwn ddisgwyl iddynt ragori'n academaidd.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. Well, you've thought about statutory recording of incidents of racism in schools and you've thought about paper tests for reading and other assessments. At the same time, one in 10 learners in Welsh secondary state schools suffer bullying every week. That means that there are more children being bullied than there are children not hitting literacy or numeracy targets. I've not read any news stories about a child killing themselves because they were slightly behind in their reading, but we do keep getting reports of suicides following bullying. Isn't it time that you actually—never mind about consulting about it—treated this in the same way as other things, and actually took it really, really seriously and required schools to record all incidents of bullying, and not cop out to a consultation?

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Wel, rydych wedi meddwl am gofnodi statudol mewn perthynas ag achosion o hiliaeth mewn ysgolion ac rydych wedi meddwl am brofion papur ar gyfer darllen ac asesiadau eraill. Ar yr un pryd, mae un o bob 10 dysgwr yn ysgolion uwchradd gwladol Cymru yn dioddef bwlio bob wythnos. Golyga hynny fod mwy o blant yn cael eu bwlio nag sy'n methu cyrraedd targedau llythrennedd neu rifedd. Nid wyf wedi darllen unrhyw storïau newyddion am blant yn lladd eu hunain oherwydd eu bod ychydig ar ei hôl hi gyda'u darllen, ond rydym yn parhau i glywed adroddiadau am achosion o hunanladdiad yn dilyn bwlio. Ni waeth am ymgynghori yn ei gylch, onid yw'n bryd i chi drin hyn yn yr un modd â phethau eraill, a bod yn wirioneddol o ddifrif yn ei gylch, a'i gwneud yn ofynnol i ysgolion gofnodi pob achos o fwlio, heb ddefnyddio ymgynghoriad yn esgus?

Presiding Officer, I thought it was good practice, accepted across this Chamber that before Governments change their policy and impose what some people in this Chamber would regard as bureaucratic rules on schools, that we actually consult with those—[Interruption.]—we actually consult—[Interruption.]—we actually consult with those that will be responsible for ensuring that all of our children are able to ensure that schools are free from any kind of anti-social behaviour or bullying in this way. That's why we carry out the consultation. 

Any child—every child—should feel safe and happy in school, and any child that is not requires— deserves—proper support. As regards those parents that have lost a child, only today I met with such a parent to engage their help to ensure that our strategy is as good as it could be. 

Lywydd, cyn i Lywodraethau newid eu polisi a gosod yr hyn y byddai rhai pobl yn y Siambr hon yn eu hystyried yn rheolau biwrocrataidd ar ysgolion, roeddwn yn meddwl ei fod yn arfer da sy'n cael ei dderbyn ar draws y Siambr hon, ein bod yn ymgynghori â'r rheini—[Torri ar draws.]—ein bod yn ymgynghori—[Torri ar draws.]—ein bod yn ymgynghori â'r rheini a fydd yn gyfrifol am sicrhau bod ein holl blant yn gallu sicrhau bod ysgolion yn rhydd o unrhyw fath o ymddygiad gwrth-gymdeithasol neu fwlio yn y modd hwn. Dyna pam ein bod yn cynnal yr ymgynghoriad.

Dylai unrhyw blentyn—pob plentyn—deimlo'n ddiogel ac yn hapus yn yr ysgol, ac mae unrhyw blentyn nad yw'n teimlo felly angen—yn haeddu—cymorth priodol. O ran rhieni sydd wedi colli plentyn, cyfarfûm heddiw â rhiant yn y sefyllfa honno i gael eu cymorth er mwyn sicrhau bod ein strategaeth cystal ag y gall fod.

14:00
Rhaglen Gwella Gwyliau’r Haf
The School Holiday Enrichment Programme

3. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am baratoadau ar gyfer cynllun haf 2019 rhaglen gwella gwyliau’r haf? OAQ53145

3. Will the Minister provide an update on preparations for the 2019 summer scheme of the school holiday enrichment programme? OAQ53145

Thank you, Vikki. I am delighted that, as part of the final budget for 2019-20, we have made an additional £400,000 available for this programme, bringing the total for 2019-20 to £900,000. This will enable local authorities and partners to support even more families this summer. 

Diolch, Vikki. Rwy'n falch iawn, fel rhan o'r gyllideb derfynol ar gyfer 2019-20, ein bod yn darparu £400,000 yn ychwanegol ar gyfer y rhaglen hon, gan ddod â'r cyfanswm ar gyfer 2019-20 i £900,000. Bydd hyn yn galluogi awdurdodau lleol a phartneriaid i gefnogi hyd yn oed mwy o deuluoedd dros yr haf hwn.

Thank you, Minister, and one of the key roles of this enrichment programme is obviously to tackle holiday hunger. What discussions have you had with the new First Minister about how he plans to use educational schemes such as this to fulfil his campaign pledge to eliminate holiday hunger in Wales? 

Diolch, Weinidog, ac un o rolau allweddol y rhaglen wella hon, yn amlwg, yw mynd i'r afael â newyn gwyliau. Pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda'r Prif Weinidog newydd ynglŷn â sut y mae'n bwriadu defnyddio cynlluniau addysgol fel hyn i gyflawni addewid ei ymgyrch i ddileu newyn gwyliau yng Nghymru?

This is a shared priority for both myself and the new First Minister. We know that the food and fun clubs do indeed play an important role in tackling the issue of food hunger, but they also have an important role in preventing learning loss, which is a real issue for many children, especially those from poorer backgrounds, that can occur over the long six-week summer holiday. I'm delighted to say that we will hopefully move from a situation where we had 53 schemes operating last summer to a situation where we will have 83 schemes operating in this summer to come.

And also we've been able as a Welsh Government—recognising the pressure that is on local authority budgets, we've been able to change the intervention rates. So, Welsh Government is picking up more of the bill to alleviate some of the financial pressures that are on local authorities, and I do hope that that means that the six local authorities that to date have not offered the food and fun programme in the summer holidays will be incentivised to come forward and will want to enable that this service is available to their citizens come the summer holidays. 

Mae hon yn flaenoriaeth a rennir gennyf fi a'r Prif Weinidog newydd. Gwyddom fod y clybiau bwyd a hwyl yn chwarae rhan bwysig yn mynd i'r afael â phroblem newyn bwyd, ond mae ganddynt rôl bwysig i'w chwarae hefyd yn atal colli dysgu, sy'n broblem go iawn i lawer o blant, yn enwedig plant o gefndiroedd tlotach, ac sy'n gallu digwydd dros y gwyliau hir o chwe wythnos yn yr haf. Rwy'n falch o ddweud y byddwn, gobeithio, yn symud o sefyllfa lle'r oedd gennym 53 o gynlluniau ar waith yr haf diwethaf i sefyllfa lle y bydd gennym 83 o gynlluniau'n gweithredu dros yr haf sydd i ddod.

Ac rydym hefyd wedi gallu, fel Llywodraeth Cymru—gan gydnabod y pwysau sydd ar gyllidebau awdurdodau lleol, rydym wedi gallu newid y cyfraddau ymyrryd. Felly, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ysgwyddo mwy o'r gost er mwyn lleddfu rhywfaint ar y pwysau ariannol ar awdurdodau lleol, ac rwy'n gobeithio bod hynny'n golygu y bydd y chwe awdurdod lleol nad ydynt, hyd yma, wedi cynnig y rhaglen fwyd a hwyl yn ystod gwyliau'r haf yn cael eu cymell i wneud hynny ac y byddant yn awyddus i sicrhau bod y gwasanaeth hwn ar gael i'w trigolion erbyn gwyliau'r haf.

Minister, I too am concerned about learning loss, which has long been identified as an issue, particularly in deprived areas, where children who have made great progress in catching up on some key skills—for instance, numeracy and literacy—then lose out during the summer period. I know, when Cardiff University reviewed this programme in 2016, they said it was very important that there should be continual evaluation of the scheme and its impact, and I wonder how core the learning component is to these schemes now, and what your ambition is for it to be common and pervasive throughout them all.  

Weinidog, rwyf innau hefyd yn bryderus ynglŷn â cholli dysgu, sydd wedi'i nodi fel problem ers peth amser, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig, lle y mae plant sydd wedi gwneud cynnydd gwych yn dal i fyny ar sgiliau allweddol—er enghraifft, llythrennedd a rhifedd—ar eu colled wedyn yn ystod yr haf. Pan adolygodd Prifysgol Caerdydd y rhaglen hon yn 2016, gwn eu bod wedi dweud ei bod yn bwysig iawn cynnal gwerthusiadau parhaus o'r cynllun a'i effaith, a tybed pa mor greiddiol yw'r elfen ddysgu i'r cynlluniau hyn bellach, a beth yw eich uchelgais i'r elfen honno fod yn gyffredin ac yn dreiddiol ym mhob un ohonynt.

You're absolutely right, David. As I said to Vikki Howells, the scheme provides two very important roles—to tackle the issue of holiday hunger, but, from an education Minister's point of view, of course, I'm primarily interested in educational attainment. And we do know, for some of these children, that learning loss is a real problem, and that those children returning to school in the September term can take many, many weeks to catch up to where they were before the summer holidays. That's why this scheme is delivered in our schools rather than in a more generic setting and also why we take the opportunity during the scheme to insist that parents come in—parents and carers come in—at least once a week, because another important role that the scheme plays is actually bringing parents into school to develop those relationships, because that also has a profound effect on the learning outcomes for those children. And, of course, as we move forward with more local authorities taking part in the scheme, we are carrying out close evaluation so that we have the evidence to demonstrate that this is money that is being well invested. 

As I said, to date, there are six local authorities that have not participated in the scheme. I hope that, with the greater flexibility and the greater intervention weight that Welsh Government has put forward, more local authorities will be able to feel they can take part.  

Rydych yn llygad eich lle, David. Fel y dywedais wrth Vikki Howells, mae'r cynllun yn darparu dwy rôl bwysig iawn—trechu newyn gwyliau, ond fel Gweinidog addysg, wrth gwrs, fy mhrif ddiddordeb yw cyrhaeddiad addysgol. Ac i rai o'r plant hyn, gwyddom fod colli dysgu yn broblem wirioneddol, ac y gall plant sy'n dychwelyd i'r ysgol ym mis Medi gymryd wythnosau lawer i gyrraedd lle'r oeddent cyn gwyliau'r haf. Dyna pam y darperir y cynllun hwn yn ein hysgolion yn hytrach nag mewn lleoliad mwy generig, a pham hefyd ein bod yn manteisio ar y cyfle yn ystod y cynllun i fynnu bod rhieni'n dod i mewn—rhieni a gofalwyr yn dod i mewn—o leiaf unwaith yr wythnos, gan mai rôl bwysig arall a gyflawnir gan y cynllun yw dod â rhieni i mewn i'r ysgol i ddatblygu'r berthynas honno, gan fod hynny hefyd yn cael effaith ddwys ar ganlyniadau dysgu'r plant hynny. Ac wrth gwrs, wrth inni symud ymlaen gyda mwy o awdurdodau lleol yn cymryd rhan yn y cynllun, rydym yn cynnal gwerthusiad manwl er mwyn sicrhau bod gennym y dystiolaeth i ddangos bod yr arian hwn yn cael ei fuddsoddi'n dda.

Fel y dywedais, hyd yma, mae chwe awdurdod lleol heb gymryd rhan yn y cynllun. Gyda'r hyblygrwydd ychwanegol a phwysau'r ymyrraeth ychwanegol a gyflwynwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd mwy o awdurdodau lleol yn teimlo y gallant gymryd rhan.

I'm delighted about the extra money for food and fun and also the hope that all local authorities will take part in this important holiday scheme. I just wondered if you can have a look at the 'Appetite for Life' guidelines to ensure that what children are offered in school is what—you know, is being effective at ensuring that children are eating healthily in school. This is so important in the context of children consuming twice the sugar intake that they should be consuming—we've seen evidence of that earlier. So, the 'Appetite for Life' guidelines need to be adhered to in the spirit and the letter of the guidelines and I have some concerns that that is not happening. 

Rwy'n falch iawn ynglŷn â'r arian ychwanegol ar gyfer bwyd a hwyl yn ogystal â'r gobaith y bydd pob awdurdod lleol yn cymryd rhan yn y cynllun gwyliau pwysig hwn. Tybed a allwch edrych ar y canllawiau 'Blas am Oes' i sicrhau mai'r hyn a gynigir i blant yn yr ysgol yw—wyddoch chi, ei fod yn effeithiol o ran sicrhau bod plant yn bwyta'n iach yn yr ysgol. Mae hyn mor bwysig yng nghyd-destun y ffaith bod plant yn bwyta dwywaith cymaint o siwgr ag y dylent—gwelsom dystiolaeth o hynny yn gynharach. Felly, mae angen cadw at ganllawiau 'Blas am Oes' mewn ysbryd ac yn llythrennol ac rwy'n bryderus braidd nad yw hynny'n digwydd.

14:05

Well, if the Member has concerns then I'm obviously willing to look at that. The meals that are provided at the food and fun club are ones that are prepared and delivered by existing school catering staff. If the chicken curry that I had last year in a school in Ely in Cardiff is anything to go by, the children are very lucky indeed; it was delicious. 

Wel, os oes gan yr Aelod bryderon, rwy'n amlwg yn fwy na pharod i edrych ar hynny. Caiff y prydau bwyd a ddarperir yn y clwb bwyd a hwyl eu paratoi a'u darparu gan staff arlwyo presennol yr ysgol. Os yw'r cyrri cyw iâr a gefais y llynedd mewn ysgol yn Nhrelái yng Nghaerdydd yn enghraifft, mae'r plant yn ffodus iawn; roedd yn flasus tu hwnt.

Mynediad i Ddysgu Gydol Oes
Access to Lifelong Learning

4. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u cael gyda sefydliadau addysg bellach am ddarparu gwell mynediad i ddysgu gydol oes? OAQ53143

4. What discussions has the Minister had with further education institutions on delivering greater access to lifelong learning? OAQ53143

Upskilling and employment provide the most sustainable route out of poverty. In Wales, we have a number of programmes to help those in greatest need of our support and aiding access to lifelong learning opportunities. We work closely with our further education sector to ensure the success of all of those programmes.

Uwchsgilio a chyflogaeth sy'n darparu'r llwybr mwyaf cynaliadwy allan o dlodi. Yng Nghymru, mae gennym nifer o raglenni i helpu'r rheini sydd angen ein cymorth fwyaf, ac i gefnogi mynediad at gyfleoedd dysgu gydol oes. Rydym yn gweithio'n agos â'n sector addysg bellach i sicrhau llwyddiant pob un o'r rhaglenni hynny.

Minister, thank you for that answer. I welcome the fact that you're now looking after FE as well as the other aspects and your comments earlier today indicate that you're keen to ensure that FE remains the jewel in one of the crowns of the education sector in Wales. But, clearly, many of those programmes and access to lifelong learning, which provides opportunities for people to go further on in either education, training or employment, are funded by the EU. Now, as a consequence of that, and the possibility of a 'no deal' Brexit coming on 29 March, will you be having urgent discussions with FE institutions and your colleagues in Welsh Government to look at how we can actually continue delivering those programmes, working with FE colleges, so our people do not lose out on the opportunities that they offer?

Weinidog, diolch am eich ateb. Croesawaf y ffaith eich bod bellach yn edrych ar ôl addysg bellach yn ogystal â'r agweddau eraill ac mae eich sylwadau yn gynharach heddiw yn awgrymu eich bod yn awyddus i sicrhau bod addysg bellach yn parhau i fod yn un o brif drysorau'r sector addysg yng Nghymru. Ond yn amlwg, mae llawer o'r rhaglenni hynny a mynediad at ddysgu gydol oes, sy'n darparu cyfleoedd i bobl gamu ymlaen ymhellach naill ai mewn addysg, hyfforddiant neu gyflogaeth, yn cael eu hariannu gan yr UE. Nawr, o ganlyniad i hynny, a'r posibilrwydd o Brexit 'dim bargen' ar 29 Mawrth, a fyddwch yn cael trafodaethau brys gyda sefydliadau addysg bellach a'ch cydweithwyr yn Llywodraeth Cymru i edrych ar sut y gallwn barhau i ddarparu'r rhaglenni hynny, gan weithio gyda cholegau addysg bellach, fel nad yw ein pobl yn colli'r cyfleoedd y maent yn eu cynnig?

The Member, Presiding Offer, identifies a real risk to this particular agenda. Not only will I be working closely with FE colleges to mitigate that risk and to ensure that we can continue to provide these very important programmes, I hope the Member will be as pleased as I am that, in the new agreement between myself and the new First Minister, we have a commitment to exploring the right to—exploring the provision of a right to lifelong learning for everybody here in Wales. I think this is a really exciting proposition and I'm keen to work with colleagues in FE to make that a reality. 

Lywydd, mae'r Aelod yn nodi risg wirioneddol i'r agenda benodol hon. Nid yn unig y byddaf yn gweithio'n agos gyda cholegau addysg bellach i liniaru'r risg honno ac i sicrhau y gallwn barhau i ddarparu'r rhaglenni tra phwysig hyn, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd yr Aelod mor falch â minnau fod gennym ymrwymiad yn y cytundeb newydd rhyngof fi a'r Prif Weinidog newydd i archwilio'r hawl i—archwilio darpariaeth yr hawl i ddysgu gydol oes i bawb yma yng Nghymru. Credaf fod hwn yn gynnig cyffrous iawn ac rwy'n awyddus i weithio gyda chydweithwyr ym maes addysg bellach i'w wireddu.

Minister, I'm interested to explore the right for lifelong learning that you said, obviously, you've signed up to with the new First Minister. I met the FE colleges the other day and they made the point that their average age of learner is about 25, it is, rather than someone who's 16 or 17, and, through the modern workplace, it is about constant evaluation and constant challenge. What do you imagine your proposals might look like—because, obviously, to sign the agreement, you must have an understanding of where you want this journey to go—and when might we see some of these proposals actually become a reality, because it is a huge issue for people to train on the job today here in Wales? 

Weinidog, mae gennyf ddiddordeb mewn archwilio'r hawl i ddysgu gydol oes y dywedoch eich bod wedi ymrwymo iddi gyda'r Prif Weinidog newydd. Cyfarfûm â'r colegau addysg bellach y diwrnod o'r blaen a gwnaethant y pwynt fod oedran cyfartalog eu dysgwyr oddeutu 25, yn hytrach na rhywun sy'n 16 neu 17, a thrwy'r gweithle modern, mae'n ymwneud â gwerthuso cyson a her gyson. Sut y credwch y caiff eich cynigion eu gwireddu—oherwydd, yn amlwg, er mwyn llofnodi'r cytundeb, mae'n rhaid ichi ddeall i ble rydych am i'r daith hon fynd—a phryd y gallem weld rhai o'r cynigion hyn yn cael eu gwireddu, gan ei fod yn fater enfawr i bobl hyfforddi yn y gweithle heddiw yma yng Nghymru?

Andrew, you are absolutely right to point to the fact that the average age of a learner is not often what we would envisage it to be. Often, when we talk about learners in this Chamber, we think about 16-year-olds or 18-year-olds; we don't think about those who are older in age. You also clearly identified what is a very important issue: as the world of work changes, we need to be able to provide opportunities for those individuals to go in and out of education to equip themselves to be able to move as the demands of the economy move so that they too can keep themselves in meaningful employment or find a way in which they can aspire to better paid jobs in the industry they're already in. Too often, we've focused our courses on courses that are over a long-term commitment, and very, very few people can take significant breaks either from their caring responsibilities or work responsibilities to return to education full time. Therefore, it's important we've done this in higher education with our part-time support for degree programmes, but we will need to look at how we can support individuals, perhaps through an individual learning account, where people are able to use that right and resources to be able to access education at a time and in a way that suits them and gives them the skills and qualifications so that they can, as I said, secure employment, change employment, and respond to the economy they find themselves working in.  

Andrew, rydych yn llygad eich lle yn tynnu sylw at y ffaith nad yw oedran cyfartalog dysgwyr yn cyfateb i'r hyn y byddem yn ei ddisgwyl. Yn aml, pan fyddwn yn sôn am ddysgwyr yn y Siambr hon, byddwn yn meddwl am bobl 16 oed neu 18 oed; nid ydym yn meddwl am y rheini sy'n hŷn. Rydych wedi nodi mater pwysig iawn yn glir hefyd: wrth i'r byd gwaith newid, mae angen inni allu darparu cyfleoedd i'r unigolion hynny fynd i mewn ac allan o addysg er mwyn paratoi eu hunain i allu newid wrth i ofynion yr economi newid fel y gallant aros mewn cyflogaeth ystyrlon neu ddod o hyd i ffordd o ymgyrraedd at swyddi â chyflogau gwell yn y diwydiant y maent ynddo eisoes. Yn rhy aml, rydym wedi canolbwyntio ein cyrsiau ar gyrsiau sy'n cynnwys ymrwymiad hirdymor, ac ychydig iawn o bobl sy'n gallu cymryd seibiant sylweddol naill ai o'u cyfrifoldebau gofalu neu gyfrifoldebau gwaith i ddychwelyd i addysg amser llawn. Felly, mae'n bwysig ein bod wedi gwneud hyn mewn addysg uwch gyda'n cymorth rhan-amser ar gyfer rhaglenni gradd, ond bydd angen inni edrych ar sut y gallwn gefnogi unigolion, efallai drwy gyfrif dysgu unigol, lle y gall pobl ddefnyddio'r hawl a'r adnoddau hynny i allu cael mynediad at addysg ar adeg ac mewn ffordd sy'n gweddu iddynt hwy ac sy'n rhoi'r sgiliau a'r cymwysterau iddynt er mwyn iddynt allu sicrhau cyflogaeth, fel y dywedais, neu newid cyflogaeth, ac ymateb i'r economi y maent yn gweithio ynddi.

Minister, in recent years we have seen a drop in the number of adults pursuing lifelong learning opportunities at our FE colleges. However, the sector still provides learning opportunities to nearly 65 per cent of Wales's 250,000 adult learners. The FE sector is facing a funding crisis due to recent cuts. What assessment has your Government made of the impact these cuts will have on lifelong learning opportunities?

Weinidog, dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, rydym wedi gweld gostyngiad yn nifer yr oedolion sy'n mynd ar drywydd cyfleoedd dysgu gydol oes yn ein colegau addysg bellach. Fodd bynnag, mae'r sector yn dal i ddarparu cyfleoedd dysgu i bron 65 y cant o'r 250,000 o oedolion sy'n ddysgwyr yng Nghymru. Mae'r sector addysg bellach yn wynebu argyfwng ariannu o ganlyniad i doriadau diweddar. Pa asesiad y mae eich Llywodraeth wedi'i wneud o effaith y toriadau hyn ar gyfleoedd dysgu gydol oes?

14:10

Well, as I said in answer to questions earlier on, we are doing what we can to support the FE sector, most recently in providing them with additional resources to tackle the issue of pay, which was the right thing to do in partnership with them. With regard to the future of adult education, you will be aware that the Government has recently concluded a consultation on the future of adult education, and I am currently considering responses to that and will make a statement in the Chamber when I am able to do so and I am secure in my way forward.

Wel, fel y dywedais wrth ateb cwestiynau yn gynharach, rydym yn gwneud yr hyn a allwn i gefnogi'r sector addysg bellach, yn fwyaf diweddar drwy ddarparu adnoddau ychwanegol iddynt fynd i'r afael â mater cyflogau, a dyna oedd y peth iawn i'w wneud mewn partneriaeth â hwy. O ran dyfodol addysg i oedolion, byddwch yn gwybod bod y Llywodraeth wedi cwblhau ymgynghoriad ar ddyfodol addysg i oedolion yn ddiweddar, ac ar hyn o bryd, rwy'n ystyried ymatebion i'r ymgynghoriad hwnnw a byddaf yn gwneud datganiad yn y Siambr pan allaf wneud hynny a phan fyddaf yn sicr o fy ffordd ymlaen.

Y Cynllun Brecwast am Ddim mewn Ysgolion Cynradd
The Free Breakfast in Primary Schools Scheme

5. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am y cynllun brecwast am ddim mewn ysgolion cynradd? OAQ53119

5. Will the Minister make a statement on the free breakfast in primary schools scheme? OAQ53119

Free breakfast in primary schools has been a flagship Welsh Government scheme for over 15 years. It is integral to our wider work to support our youngest learners to be emotionally and physically ready to learn by providing them with a healthy start to the school day.

Mae brecwast am ddim mewn ysgolion cynradd wedi bod yn un o gynlluniau blaenllaw Llywodraeth Cymru ers dros 15 mlynedd. Mae'n rhan annatod o'n gwaith ehangach i gynorthwyo ein dysgwyr ieuengaf i fod yn barod yn emosiynol ac yn gorfforol ar gyfer dysgu drwy roi dechrau iach i'r diwrnod ysgol.

Thanks, Minister. The ethos behind the scheme is first class, but some of my constituents have written to me with concerns that some children from disadvantaged backgrounds may be missing out. That's because their difficult lives at home may make it difficult for them to consistently get into school on time to benefit from the free food, which can affect their learning. It's a sad fact that there are children in Wales who live in real poverty and go hungry. So, has the Government explored the possibility of providing free food later on in the morning for those children who are unable to attend the breakfast club before school?

Diolch, Weinidog. Mae'r ethos wrth wraidd y cynllun yn wych, ond mae rhai o fy etholwyr wedi ysgrifennu ataf yn mynegi pryderon am ei bod hi'n bosibl nad yw rhai plant o gefndiroedd difreintiedig yn gallu elwa ohono, a hynny oherwydd y gallai eu bywydau anodd gartref ei gwneud yn anodd iddynt fynd i'r ysgol ar amser yn gyson i fanteisio ar y bwyd am ddim, a gallai hynny effeithio ar eu dysgu. Mae'n ffaith drist fod yna blant yng Nghymru sy'n byw mewn tlodi go iawn ac yn mynd heb fwyd. Felly, a yw'r Llywodraeth wedi ystyried y posibilrwydd o ddarparu bwyd am ddim yn nes ymlaen yn y bore ar gyfer y plant sy'n methu mynychu'r clwb brecwast cyn i'r ysgol ddechrau?

As of January 2018, 88 per cent of all maintained primary schools are offering a free breakfast club, allowing learners at that school to benefit, as I said, from that healthy breakfast before they start the school day. Indeed, the evidence would suggest—and I have to admit, and there are people who've been in the Chamber long enough to know that I was highly sceptical of the free breakfast scheme when it was first introduced, but the evidence and the evaluation that have subsequently been carried—[Interruption.] The evidence and evaluation that have been carried out actually have proven the fact that this does make a difference, and I would be the first to admit that, having had that evaluation carried out, this policy makes a difference. One of the ways it does make a difference, actually, is that it is the ability to access that food that is the incentive for parents and, indeed, sometimes, sadly, children on their own, to get themselves out of bed, dressed, and to the school. So, we also need to have conversations with schools about how we can ensure more children are able to do that, but I have not had any conversations about making that food available later on in the day. But there is good practice out there. I would draw the Member's attention to a school in Wrexham constituency serving a deprived community, where the headteacher uses some of his pupil development grant to create a walking bus. And, actually, staff of that school go into the local housing estate, they collect the children from home, they walk them into school, so that they can attend breakfast club and so that they will be ready for the school day. It's such innovative practice on behalf of the headteacher, enabled by the pupil development grant, that I applaud.

Ers mis Ionawr 2018, mae 88 y cant o'r holl ysgolion cynradd a gynhelir yn cynnig clwb brecwast am ddim, gan ganiatáu i ddysgwyr yn yr ysgol honno fanteisio, fel y dywedais, ar y brecwast iach hwnnw cyn iddynt ddechrau'r diwrnod ysgol. Yn wir, byddai'r dystiolaeth yn awgrymu—ac mae'n rhaid imi gyfaddef, ac mae pobl sydd wedi bod yn y Siambr yn ddigon hir i wybod fy mod yn amheus iawn o'r cynllun brecwast am ddim pan gafodd ei gyflwyno gyntaf, ond mae'r dystiolaeth a'r gwerthuso a gynhaliwyd ers hynny—[Torri ar draws.] Mae'r dystiolaeth a'r gwerthuso a gynhaliwyd wedi profi bod hyn yn gwneud gwahaniaeth, a fi fyddai'r cyntaf i gyfaddef, wedi cynnal y gwerthusiad hwnnw, fod y polisi hwn yn gwneud gwahaniaeth. Un o'r ffyrdd y mae'n gwneud gwahaniaeth, mewn gwirionedd, yw mai'r gallu i gael mynediad at y bwyd hwnnw yw'r cymhelliad i rieni, ac yn wir, y plant eu hunain weithiau, yn anffodus, i godi o'r gwely, i wisgo, ac i'r ysgol. Felly, mae angen inni gael sgyrsiau gydag ysgolion hefyd ynglŷn â sut y gallwn sicrhau bod mwy o blant yn gallu gwneud hynny, ond nid wyf wedi cael unrhyw sgyrsiau ynglŷn â sicrhau bod y bwyd hwnnw ar gael yn nes ymlaen yn y dydd. Ond mae arferion da i'w cael. Hoffwn dynnu sylw'r Aelod at ysgol yn etholaeth Wrecsam sy'n gwasanaethu cymuned ddifreintiedig, lle y mae'r pennaeth yn defnyddio peth o'i grant datblygu disgyblion i greu bws cerdded. Ac mewn gwirionedd, mae staff yr ysgol honno'n mynd i'r ystâd dai leol, maent yn casglu'r plant o'u cartrefi, maent yn eu hebrwng i'r ysgol, fel y gallant fynychu clwb brecwast ac fel y byddant yn barod ar gyfer y diwrnod ysgol. Rwy'n cymeradwyo arfer mor arloesol ar ran y pennaeth, ac fe'i galluogir gan y grant datblygu disgyblion.

I seem to remember some time back, Minister, being pretty positive about the free breakfast scheme when, possibly, some Members weren't, including you, obviously, but water under the bridge. The Welsh Government's free school breakfast scheme has been a flagship policy, as you yourself said, for many of your predecessors for a long period of time, but it has come under increasing pressure over recent years, with a number of councils reducing the opening hours of breakfast clubs and others introducing charges, albeit low-level charges. What support are you giving to local authorities to help maintain access to breakfast clubs to make sure that those children who do really need that nourishment that that breakfast gives them are able to access it in the future?

Gallaf gofio, beth amser yn ôl, Weinidog, fy mod yn teimlo'n eithaf cadarnhaol ynghylch y cynllun brecwast am ddim, pan nad oedd rhai Aelodau, gan eich cynnwys chi, yn amlwg, mor frwd, ond mae hynny'n hen hanes bellach. Mae cynllun brecwast ysgol am ddim Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn bolisi blaenllaw, fel y dywedoch, i lawer o'ch rhagflaenwyr am gyfnod hir o amser, ond mae wedi dod o dan bwysau cynyddol dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, gyda nifer o gynghorau yn lleihau oriau agor clybiau brecwast ac eraill yn codi tâl, er mai tâl bach iawn ydyw. Pa gefnogaeth rydych yn ei rhoi i awdurdodau lleol i'w helpu i gynnal mynediad at glybiau brecwast er mwyn sicrhau bod y plant sydd wir angen y maeth y mae'r brecwast yn ei roi iddynt yn gallu cael mynediad ato yn y dyfodol?

I am aware that some local authorities have made different decisions about how they organise breakfast clubs. You will be aware that, in 2013-14, that financial year, the funding mechanism for free breakfasts in primary schools changed from a direct grant, and now that money is made available via the revenue support grant. Breakfasts are free, but individual local authorities and schools are able to make a small charge if, for instance, that club is being used for a longer period of time, essentially for childcare and wraparound care, which some parents do need and do utilise. But the 30-minute slot for free breakfast should not be charged for.

Rwy'n ymwybodol fod rhai awdurdodau lleol wedi gwneud penderfyniadau gwahanol ynglŷn â sut y maent yn trefnu clybiau brecwast. Fe fyddwch yn gwybod, yn 2013-14, y flwyddyn ariannol honno, fod y mecanwaith ariannu ar gyfer brecwast am ddim mewn ysgolion cynradd wedi newid o grant uniongyrchol, a bod yr arian hwnnw bellach yn cael ei ddarparu drwy'r grant cynnal refeniw. Mae'r brecwast am ddim, ond gall ysgolion ac awdurdodau lleol unigol godi tâl bach, er enghraifft, os defnyddir y clwb am gyfnod hwy o amser, ar gyfer gofal plant a gofal cofleidiol i bob pwrpas, y bydd rhai rhieni ei angen ac yn ei ddefnyddio. Ond ni ddylid codi tâl am y slot 30 munud ar gyfer brecwast am ddim.

14:15
Cyllid Ysgolion yr Unfed Ganrif ar Hugain
Twenty-First Century Schools Funding

6. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am gyllid Ysgolion yr 21ain Ganrif? OAQ53139

6. Will the Minister make a statement on 21st Century Schools funding? OAQ53139

The twenty-first century schools programme will see investment of £1.4 billion over the five-year period, ending now, this year, in 2019. A further £2.3 billion investment is planned from April of this year onward, and the programme is delivered in partnership with local authorities and others who prioritise the projects that need to be delivered.

Bydd rhaglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain wedi darparu buddsoddiad o £1.4 biliwn dros y cyfnod pum mlynedd, sy'n dod i ben yn awr, eleni, yn 2019. Mae £2.3 biliwn ychwanegol o fuddsoddiad wedi'i gynllunio o fis Ebrill eleni ymlaen, a darperir y rhaglen mewn partneriaeth ag awdurdodau lleol ac eraill sy'n rhoi blaenoriaeth i'r prosiectau y mae angen eu darparu.

Thank you very much for that summary, actually. You've previously told Mike Hedges that £34 million of the £51 million that went to Swansea under band A, for which—I just want to make this plain: I completely welcome that investment. But it showed that 66 per cent of the money that went into the Swansea city area went to Swansea East, and, actually, nothing at all went into Swansea West. Now, I appreciate what you said about the councils prioritising this, but I'm being told by councillors in Swansea that some schools in Swansea West and Gower are either not being told how to apply for this funding or are not told properly how they might pitch for this funding.

When band B is being introduced, would you undertake to make sure that schools are informed directly of how they might apply for this funding? Because even though they may be more affluent parts of Swansea, there are some schools in Swansea West and Gower that are basically just collections of portakabins, who are unaware that they could have actually made a bid for twenty-first century funding.

Diolch yn fawr iawn am y crynodeb hwnnw. Rydych eisoes wedi dweud wrth Mike Hedges fod £34 miliwn o'r £51 miliwn a aeth i Abertawe o dan fand A, sef—hoffwn ddweud hyn yn glir: croesawaf y buddsoddiad hwnnw'n llwyr. Ond dangosodd fod 66 y cant o'r arian a aeth i ardal dinas Abertawe wedi mynd i Ddwyrain Abertawe, ac mewn gwirionedd, nid aeth unrhyw beth o gwbl i Orllewin Abertawe. Nawr, rwy'n derbyn yr hyn a ddywedasoch ynglŷn â'r cynghorau'n blaenoriaethu hyn, ond dywed cynghorwyr yn Abertawe wrthyf fod rhai ysgolion yng Ngorllewin Abertawe a'r Gŵyr naill ai ddim yn cael gwybod sut i wneud cais am y cyllid hwn neu ddim yn cael gwybod yn briodol sut y gallant wneud cais am y cyllid.

Pan fydd band B yn cael ei gyflwyno, a wnewch chi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod ysgolion yn cael gwybod yn uniongyrchol sut y gallant wneud cais am y cyllid hwn? Oherwydd er eu bod mewn rhannau mwy cefnog o Abertawe, o bosibl, mae rhai ysgolion yng Ngorllewin Abertawe a'r Gŵyr nad ydynt yn y bôn yn ddim ond casgliadau o gabanau, ac nid ydynt yn ymwybodol y gallent fod wedi gwneud cais am gyllid rhaglen ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain.

It is not for individual schools to make an application to the twenty-first century schools fund. The applications need to have come from the individual local education authority, who should carry out a needs assessment and a building survey assessment of its school estate, and, therefore, appropriately apply for priorities within their own local authority area. Those applications that are made by local education authorities are overseen by an independent capital programme board who make recommendations to me as Minister, and there is a robust procedure in place to scrutinise the applications that come forward from LEAs. But, really, the Member needs to address this concern to members of Swansea local authority.

Nid cyfrifoldeb ysgolion unigol yw gwneud cais i gronfa ysgolion yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Mae angen i'r ceisiadau ddod gan yr awdurdod addysg lleol unigol, a ddylai gynnal asesiad o anghenion ac asesiad arolwg adeiladau o'i ystâd ysgolion, a gwneud cais priodol felly am flaenoriaethau o fewn eu hardal awdurdod lleol eu hunain. Mae'r ceisiadau a wneir gan awdurdodau addysg lleol yn cael eu goruchwylio gan fwrdd rhaglen gyfalaf annibynnol sy'n gwneud argymhellion i mi fel Gweinidog, ac mae gweithdrefn gadarn ar waith i graffu ar y ceisiadau a gyflwynir gan awdurdodau addysg lleol. Ond mewn gwirionedd, mae angen i'r Aelod godi'r pryder hwn gydag aelodau o awdurdod lleol Abertawe.

Effaith Cynlluniau Arweinyddiaeth Disgyblion
The Impact of Pupil Leadership Schemes

7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am effaith cynlluniau arweinyddiaeth disgyblion mewn ysgolion? OAQ53118

7. Will the Minister provide an update on the impact of pupil leadership schemes in schools? OAQ53118

Pupil voice is key to informing policy and creating a productive educational environment for our schools. All pupils should have the opportunity to take part in making decisions about their learning, and we will continue to engage with children and young people as the new curriculum is made available for feedback.

Mae llais disgyblion yn allweddol i hysbysu polisi a chreu amgylchedd addysgol cynhyrchiol ar gyfer ein hysgolion. Dylai pob disgybl gael cyfle i gymryd rhan yn y broses o wneud penderfyniadau ynglŷn â'u dysgu, a byddwn yn parhau i ymgysylltu â phlant a phobl ifanc wrth i'r cwricwlwm newydd ddod yn agored ar gyfer cael adborth.

Thank you, Minister. Coed Eva Primary School in Cwmbran has recently been praised by Estyn for creating strategies to develop pupils' independence and attitudes to learning, one of which includes a pupil leadership scheme that involves the pupils conducting lesson observations, focusing upon learners' learning behaviours and attitude to learning and where they provide feedback to pupils and staff, including ways forward that impact on teaching and learning. They also give feedback to the senior leadership team and the school governing body. As a result of this and the other innovative work at Coed Eva school, pupils' well-being and attitudes to learning are reported to be very strong, and nearly all pupils behave in an exemplary manner in lessons and at break time. Will you join me in congratulating Coed Eva school and Blenheim Road school, the federated school, on their excellent work in this area? But can you say, as well, what lessons you think can be taken from this excellent practice and rolled out elsewhere in Wales?

Diolch, Weinidog. Mae Ysgol Gynradd Coed Efa yng Nghwmbrân wedi cael ei chanmol yn ddiweddar gan Estyn am greu strategaethau i ddatblygu annibyniaeth disgyblion a'u hagweddau at ddysgu, gydag un ohonynt yn cynnwys cynllun arweinyddiaeth disgyblion sy'n golygu bod disgyblion yn arsylwi ar wersi, gan ganolbwyntio ar ymddygiad dysgu dysgwyr a'u hagwedd at ddysgu a lle y maent yn darparu adborth i ddisgyblion a staff, gan gynnwys ffyrdd ymlaen sy'n effeithio ar addysgu a dysgu. Maent hefyd yn rhoi adborth i'r uwch dîm arwain a chorff llywodraethu'r ysgol. O ganlyniad i hyn a gwaith arloesol arall yn ysgol Coed Efa, ceir adroddiadau fod lles disgyblion a'u hagweddau at ddysgu yn gadarn iawn, ac mae bron bob disgybl yn ymddwyn mewn modd rhagorol mewn gwersi ac yn ystod amser egwyl. A wnewch chi ymuno â mi i longyfarch ysgol Coed Efa ac ysgol Ffordd Blenheim, yr ysgol ffederal, ar eu gwaith rhagorol yn y maes hwn? Ond a allwch ddweud hefyd pa wersi y credwch y gellir eu dysgu o'r arfer rhagorol hwn a'u cyflwyno mewn mannau eraill yng Nghymru?

Well, I'm delighted to do so. I've been fortunate enough to—well, in fact, I got to open the new Coed Eva Primary School, and I have visited its federated twin on a number of occasions, most recently, I have to say, on a very innovative mental health day that the children—not the staff, the children had planned, not just for their benefit, but, actually, for a range of primary schools in the local area to highlight areas around mental health and well-being. Gill Ellis, who is the head of that federation, is also one of our associates on the new academy of educational leadership, and it is by those kinds of mechanisms we can ensure that this good practice is spread throughout the system. So, Coed Eva should be congratulated. Although they are not alone—I know that Mike Hedges will be devastated that he's not in the Chamber to hear me say this, but on a recent visit to Ysgol Tan-y-lan with Mike Hedges in Swansea—. They've introduced a new system where pupils, for an afternoon a week, get to choose what they want to study. And that increase in pupil voice has led to increased attendance at the school and better results from the children themselves, which just shows the power of listening and empowering children in their own education and the difference that can make to them.

Wel, rwy'n falch iawn o wneud hynny. Rwyf wedi bod yn ddigon ffodus i—wel, mewn gwirionedd, cefais agor ysgol newydd Ysgol Gynradd Coed Efa, ac rwyf wedi ymweld â'i gefell ffederal ar sawl achlysur, yn fwyaf diweddar, mae'n rhaid imi ddweud, ar ddiwrnod iechyd meddwl arloesol iawn a drefnwyd gan y plant—nid y staff, y plant a'i cynlluniodd, nid yn unig er eu budd eu hunain, ond ar gyfer amryw o ysgolion cynradd yn yr ardal leol i dynnu sylw at feysydd yn ymwneud ag iechyd meddwl a lles. Mae Gill Ellis, pennaeth yr ysgol ffederal, hefyd yn un o'n partneriaid cyswllt yn yr academi arweinyddiaeth addysgol newydd, a thrwy'r mathau hynny o fecanweithiau gallwn sicrhau bod yr arferion da hyn yn cael eu rhannu drwy'r system gyfan. Felly, dylid llongyfarch ysgol Coed Efa. Er nad hwy yn unig—gwn y bydd Mike Hedges yn torri ei galon nad yw yn y Siambr i fy nghlywed yn dweud hyn, ond ar ymweliad diweddar ag Ysgol Tan-y-lan gyda Mike Hedges yn Abertawe—. Maent wedi cyflwyno system newydd lle y mae disgyblion, am un prynhawn yr wythnos, yn cael dewis beth y maent am ei astudio. Ac mae'r cynnydd hwnnw yn llais disgyblion wedi arwain at lefel uwch o bresenoldeb yn yr ysgol a chanlyniadau gwell gan y plant eu hunain, sy'n dangos grym gwrando a grymuso plant mewn perthynas â'u haddysg eu hunain a'r gwahaniaeth y gall hynny ei wneud iddynt.

14:20

Yn olaf, cwestiwn 8, Mohammad Asghar.

Finally, question 8, Mohammad Asghar.

Derbyniadau i Gyrsiau Prifysgol yng Nghymru
Acceptances to University Courses in Wales

8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am dderbyniadau i gyrsiau prifysgol yng Nghymru? OAQ53127

8. Will the Minister make a statement on acceptances to university courses in Wales? OAQ53127

I have noted the UCAS statistics on acceptances to full-time undergraduate courses for 2018-19. The slight reduction reflects the ongoing decline in the number of 18-year-olds in the United Kingdom. I am, however, encouraged by reports from some universities of increased applications for postgraduate and part-time undergraduate courses.

Rwyf wedi nodi ystadegau UCAS ar dderbyniadau i gyrsiau israddedig amser llawn ar gyfer 2018-19. Mae'r gostyngiad bychan yn adlewyrchu'r gostyngiad parhaus yn nifer y bobl 18 oed yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Fodd bynnag, ceir adroddiadau calonogol gan rai prifysgolion am fwy o geisiadau am gyrsiau ôl-raddedig a chyrsiau israddedig rhan-amser.

Thank you for the answer, Minister. According to the admissions service, UCAS, Wales is the only part of the United Kingdom where the total number of students given places fell last year, when compared to the previous year. Figures show the number of students accepted on full-time courses at Welsh universities fell by 5.7 per cent. Figures show also that Welsh applicants are the most likely to study outside their home country, in contrast to Scotland and Northern Ireland, where there are financial incentives for applicants to study at home universities. What action will the Minister take to reverse this decline and what incentive will she offer to encourage more Welsh applicants to study in home universities, please?

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Yn ôl y gwasanaeth derbyniadau, UCAS, Cymru yw'r unig ran o'r Deyrnas Unedig lle y gostyngodd cyfanswm y myfyrwyr a gafodd le ar gyrsiau y llynedd, o gymharu â'r flwyddyn flaenorol. Dengys ffigurau fod nifer y myfyrwyr a dderbyniwyd ar gyrsiau amser llawn ym mhrifysgolion Cymru wedi gostwng 5.7 y cant. Dengys ffigurau hefyd mai ymgeiswyr o Gymru yw'r rhai mwyaf tebygol o astudio y tu allan i'w mamwlad, yn wahanol i'r Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon, lle y ceir cymhellion ariannol i ymgeiswyr astudio ym mhrifysgolion eu gwlad. Pa gamau y bydd y Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i wrthdroi'r gostyngiad a pha gymhelliad y bydd yn ei gynnig i annog mwy o ymgeiswyr o Gymru i astudio ym mhrifysgolion eu gwlad, os gwelwch yn dda?

Of course, Presiding Officer, recruitment is a matter for individual institutions. What Welsh students have the advantage of is the most progressive and generous system of student support anywhere in the United Kingdom.

With regard to incentivising students to study in Wales, the Member will be aware, because, again, we discussed this this morning at the committee, when it comes to support for postgraduate study, that is only available for eligible applicants who undertake their postgraduate study in a Welsh institution.

Wrth gwrs, Lywydd, mater i sefydliadau unigol yw recriwtio. Y fantais sydd gan fyfyrwyr Cymru yw'r system fwyaf blaengar a hael o gymorth i fyfyrwyr yn y Deyrnas Unedig.

O ran cymell myfyrwyr i astudio yng Nghymru, bydd yr Aelod yn ymwybodol, oherwydd, unwaith eto, trafodasom hyn y bore yma yn y pwyllgor, o ran cymorth ar gyfer astudio ôl-raddedig, nid yw hwnnw ond ar gael i ymgeiswyr cymwys sy'n ymgymryd â'u hastudiaethau ôl-raddedig mewn sefydliad yng Nghymru.

2. Cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol
2. Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

Yr eitem nesaf, felly, yw'r cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Hefin David.

The next item, therefore, is questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services, and the first question is from Hefin David.

Argaeledd Meddyginiaethau Fferyllol Dros y Cownter
The Availability of Over-The-Counter Pharmaceutical Drugs

1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am argaeledd meddyginiaethau fferyllol dros y cownter? OAQ53150

1. Will the Minister make a statement on the availability of over-the-counter pharmaceutical drugs? OAQ53150

Thank you for the question. There is good evidence that many general practitioner consultations are for minor ailments that could potentially be dealt with effectively by a community pharmacist, with medicines readily available from pharmacies without a prescription. Choose Pharmacy means that these ailments can be safely and accurately diagnosed with no need for medical interventions. 

Diolch am eich cwestiwn. Ceir tystiolaeth dda fod llawer o ymgynghoriadau meddygon teulu yn ymwneud â mân anhwylderau y gallai fferyllydd cymunedol ymdrin â hwy'n effeithiol o bosibl, gan fod meddyginiaethau ar gael yn rhwydd o fferyllfeydd heb bresgripsiwn. Golyga Dewis Fferyllfa y gellir gwneud diagnosis o'r anhwylderau hyn yn ddiogel ac yn gywir heb fod angen ymyriadau meddygol.

Some of the issues that the Minister is referring to were raised with me by Norgine, a pharmaceutical manufacturer in my constituency with a significant presence and it happens to be a Welsh anchor company, as well. The company made me aware of the consultation that the All Wales Medicines Strategy Group are currently undertaking—I think it closes on Friday—that is looking at conditions for which over-the-counter items should not be routinely prescribed in primary care. It seems to be a cut-and-paste consultation from one that took place earlier in England. The document lists 1,314 medicines available over the counter that are currently prescribed by GPs in Wales, covering 35 conditions. Norgine have raised some concerns with me, particularly the potential unintended consequences of adopting the guidance, including increased costs; disempowering prescribers; putting patients' outcomes at risk; creating inequalities in healthcare; and putting the most vulnerable members of society at risk. Will the Minister reflect on those concerns and also tell the Chamber when he plans to report back to this Parliament on the outcome of that consultation?

Cafodd rhai o'r materion y mae'r Gweinidog yn cyfeirio atynt eu dwyn i fy sylw gan Norgine, gweithgynhyrchwr fferyllol yn fy etholaeth gyda phresenoldeb sylweddol ac sy'n digwydd bod yn un o gwmnïau angori Cymru hefyd. Soniodd y cwmni wrthyf am yr ymgynghoriad sydd ar waith ar hyn o bryd gan Grŵp Strategaeth Feddyginiaethau Cymru—credaf ei fod yn dod i ben ddydd Gwener—sy'n edrych ar gyflyrau na ddylid rhoi presgripsiwn dros y cownter ar eu cyfer fel mater o drefn mewn gofal sylfaenol. Ymddengys ei fod yn gopi carbon o ymgynghoriad a gynhaliwyd yn gynharach yn Lloegr. Mae'r ddogfen yn rhestru 1,314 o feddyginiaethau sydd ar gael dros y cownter ac sy'n cael eu presgripsiynu ar hyn o bryd gan feddygon teulu yng Nghymru, ar gyfer 35 o gyflyrau. Mae Norgine wedi dwyn rhai pryderon i fy sylw, yn enwedig y canlyniadau anfwriadol posibl yn sgil mabwysiadu'r canllawiau, gan gynnwys costau cynyddol; dadrymuso presgripsiynwyr; peryglu canlyniadau i gleifion; creu anghydraddoldeb ym maes gofal iechyd; a pheryglu aelodau mwyaf agored i niwed cymdeithas. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ystyried y pryderon hyn, a dweud hefyd wrth y Siambr pa bryd y mae'n bwriadu adrodd yn ôl i'r Senedd ar ganlyniad yr ymgynghoriad hwnnw?

Yes, I'm happy to indicate that the consultation, as you indicate, is nearly finished, but it is a consultation. Because there is evidence that some over-the-counter medication does not represent good value, either in terms of value for money or efficacy, as well. So, I think it's quite right and proper to review that information and then to come up with new guidance.

There is always, though, the reality that the individual prescriber, whoever they are, has an individual responsibility to make an appropriate prescribing choice for the individual person in front of them. Now, I recognise some of the concerns the company has raised and that you've repeated here. They're concerns that I'm alive to, but I'd be more than happy to make sure that this Chamber is updated on the outcome of the consultation and on any new guidance that I may choose to endorse.FootnoteLink

Gwnaf, rwy'n fwy na pharod i ddweud bod yr ymgynghoriad, fel y dywedoch, bron â dod i ben, ond ymgynghoriad ydyw. Oherwydd ceir tystiolaeth hefyd nad yw rhai meddyginiaethau dros y cownter yn darparu gwerth da, naill ai o ran gwerth am arian neu effeithiolrwydd. Credaf felly ei bod yn gwbl iawn a phriodol adolygu'r wybodaeth honno a llunio canllawiau newydd.

Y realiti o hyd, fodd bynnag, yw fod gan y presgripsiynydd unigol, pwy bynnag ydynt, gyfrifoldeb unigol i wneud dewis presgripsiynu priodol ar gyfer yr unigolyn ger eu bron. Nawr, rwy'n cydnabod rhai o'r pryderon a godwyd gan y cwmni ac a ailadroddwyd gennych yma. Maent yn bryderon rwy'n ymwybodol ohonynt, ond buaswn yn fwy na pharod i sicrhau bod y Siambr hon yn cael yr wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am ganlyniad yr ymgynghoriad ac am unrhyw ganllawiau newydd y gallwn ddewis eu cymeradwyo.FootnoteLink

14:25

In their preparations for a possible 'no deal' Brexit, the UK Ministers for the NHS, at least in England, proposed allowing pharmacists to substitute certain drugs for ones with similar effects, where their professional judgment supports that. Does the Minister agree that, actually, generally, we should be allowing pharmacists greater discretion to deploy their professional judgment to serve their patients, to take pressure off GPs and to ensure cost-effective delivery?

Yn eu paratoadau ar gyfer y posibilrwydd o Brexit 'dim bargen', argymhellodd Gweinidogion y DU dros y GIG, yn Lloegr o leiaf, ganiatáu i fferyllwyr amnewid cyffuriau penodol am rai gydag effeithiau tebyg, lle y mae eu barn broffesiynol yn cefnogi hynny. A yw'r Gweinidog yn cytuno, yn gyffredinol, y dylem ganiatáu mwy o ddisgresiwn i fferyllwyr ddefnyddio eu barn broffesiynol i wasanaethu eu cleifion, er mwyn lleddfu'r pwysau ar feddygon teulu ac i sicrhau darpariaeth gosteffeithiol?

Yes, there is a challenge here about generic medications being more widely available and used within our whole healthcare system. There is then the related, but slightly different, challenge of making best use of the skills of our staff within the system, and pharmacists are absolutely within that domain. We've spoken on a number of occasions, in this place and outside, about making better use of the skills that the pharmacists have, not only in terms of assisting their colleagues within primary care, but actually being a port of call for citizens to receive advice and, if necessary, to have prescribed medication. So, not just in terms of our preparations for a catastrophic 'no deal' Brexit, but more generally about improving the efficacy and value for money and the experience of health and care, I expect us to make ever-greater use of the skills and expertise that pharmacists have to offer.

Ie, mae yma her ynghylch argaeledd ehangach meddyginiaethau generig a'u defnydd o fewn ein system gofal iechyd gyfan. Yna, ceir yr her gysylltiedig, ond ychydig yn wahanol, o wneud y defnydd gorau o sgiliau ein staff o fewn y system, ac mae fferyllwyr yn bendant yn rhan o hynny. Rydym wedi sôn ar sawl achlysur, yn y lle hwn a thu hwnt, am wneud gwell defnydd o'r sgiliau sydd gan fferyllwyr, nid yn unig mewn perthynas â chynorthwyo eu cydweithwyr mewn gofal sylfaenol, ond o ran bod yn bwynt cyswllt i roi cyngor i ddinasyddion, ac os oes angen, i ddarparu meddyginiaeth ar bresgripsiwn. Felly, nid yn unig o safbwynt ein paratoadau ar gyfer Brexit 'dim bargen' trychinebus, ond yn fwy cyffredinol o ran gwella effeithiolrwydd a gwerth am arian a'r profiad o iechyd a gofal, rwy'n disgwyl y byddwn yn gwneud defnydd mwy fyth o'r sgiliau a'r arbenigedd sydd gan fferyllwyr i'w cynnig.

A constituent has contacted my office this morning, Minister, incredibly worried that she's not able to obtain a specific drug, which she needs to control her epilepsy, even though the drug is freely available from pharmacies in England. The drug I'm referring to is called Epilim Chrono slow release. Now, she will run out of this drug shortly, she explained to my office staff this morning. So, will you urgently look into this matter to ensure that my constituent can receive this specific drug from a local pharmacy here in Wales? And if I do commit to write to you this afternoon, could I ask you to reply with urgency, Minister?

Mae etholwr wedi cysylltu â fy swyddfa y bore yma, Weinidog, yn hynod o bryderus am nad yw'n gallu cael gafael ar gyffur penodol y mae ei angen arni er mwyn rheoli ei hepilepsi, er bod y cyffur ar gael yn ddidrafferth mewn fferyllfeydd yn Lloegr. Enw'r cyffur y cyfeiriaf ato yw Epilim Chrono, cyffur rhyddhad araf. Nawr, eglurodd i staff fy swyddfa y bore yma y bydd ei chyflenwad o'r cyffur yn dirwyn i ben cyn bo hir. Felly, a wnewch chi edrych ar y mater hwn ar frys i sicrhau y gall fy etholwr gael y cyffur penodol hwn o fferyllfa leol yma yng Nghymru? Ac os ymrwymaf i ysgrifennu atoch y prynhawn yma, a gaf fi ofyn ichi ymateb ar fyrder, Weinidog?

If you write to me with the details, I'll make sure that an appropriate response is provided. Of course, you will understand that I can't intervene in individual treatment matters, but I'm more than happy to make sure that a proper response is provided, and I recognise the urgency with which you raise the matter.

Os ysgrifennwch ataf gyda'r manylion, byddaf yn sicrhau bod ymateb priodol yn cael ei ddarparu. Wrth gwrs, fe fyddwch yn deall na allaf ymyrryd mewn materion sy'n ymwneud â thriniaeth unigol, ond rwy'n fwy na pharod i sicrhau y darperir ymateb priodol, ac rwy'n cydnabod ei fod yn fater brys.

Gofal Iechyd yn Sir Drefaldwyn
Healthcare in Montgomeryshire

2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ddarparu gofal iechyd a gynllunir yn Sir Drefaldwyn? OAQ53117

2. Will the Minister make a statement on the delivery of planned healthcare in Montgomeryshire? OAQ53117

We continue to work with Powys teaching health board and other partners to take a range of actions to improve access to planned healthcare services that are safe, sustainable and as close to people’s homes as possible.

Rydym yn parhau i weithio gyda bwrdd iechyd addysgu Powys a phartneriaid eraill er mwyn rhoi amryw o gamau ar waith i wella mynediad at wasanaethau gofal iechyd wedi'i gynllunio sy'n ddiogel, yn gynaliadwy ac mor agos at gartrefi pobl â phosibl.

Thank you, Minister. I'm pleased to hear that. We're soon to hear the conclusion of a consultation that will see the outcome of a consultation in Shropshire. That will see the reconfiguration of services in Shropshire, and I believe, certainly, it's essential that we see some planned delivery delivered locally in our local community hospitals such as Newtown, Llanidloes, Welshpool or Machynlleth, to, of course, reduce the need for patients to travel even further following changes in Shropshire. And, of course, some—I emphasise 'some'—planned care procedures can be delivered more locally, which of course makes community hospitals more sustainable, and there are obvious other benefits of patients and families not having to travel even further again for some planned care. So, I'd be keen to understand how you believe that the Welsh Government, in partnership with Powys health board—how you can work with the health board, taking into account the expected changes that we're expecting to see happening in Shropshire.

Diolch, Weinidog. Rwy'n falch o glywed hynny. Cyn bo hir, byddwn yn clywed casgliadau ymgynghoriad a fydd yn arwain at ganlyniad ymgynghoriad yn Swydd Amwythig. Bydd hynny'n golygu ad-drefnu gwasanaethau yn Swydd Amwythig, ac yn sicr, credaf ei bod yn hanfodol ein bod yn sicrhau bod peth darpariaeth wedi'i chynllunio yn cael ei darparu'n lleol yn ein hysbytai cymunedol lleol megis y Drenewydd, Llanidloes, y Trallwng neu Fachynlleth, er mwyn lleihau'r angen, wrth gwrs, i gleifion deithio hyd yn oed ymhellach yn dilyn newidiadau yn Swydd Amwythig. Ac wrth gwrs, gellir darparu rhai—pwysleisiaf 'rhai'—triniaethau gofal wedi'i gynllunio yn fwy lleol, sydd wrth gwrs yn gwneud ysbytai cymunedol yn fwy cynaliadwy, a cheir manteision amlwg eraill lle na fydd raid i gleifion a'u teuluoedd deithio hyd yn oed ymhellach am ofal wedi'i gynllunio. Felly, rwy'n awyddus i ddeall sut y credwch fod Llywodraeth Cymru, mewn partneriaeth â bwrdd iechyd Powys—sut y gallwch weithio gyda'r bwrdd iechyd, gan ystyried y newidiadau rydym yn disgwyl eu gweld yn Swydd Amwythig.

There are two points here. The first is that Powys teaching health board already deliver a range of planned healthcare, and they actually have a very good track record on delivering that within time. They also have real ambition, which we're happy to support, to continue to deliver as much planned healthcare within Powys or as local to Powys as possible too. On a range of visits that I've undertaken out to settings within Powys, they've been talking about what else they are able to deliver within those settings, to reduce the time that people would otherwise take to travel to different centres. For example, in maternity care, more women are able to access complex maternity care that is midwife led within Powys, rather than having to travel further afield to do so, and those aspirations are, of course, supported by the general scheme within our plan, 'A Healthier Wales', the long-term plan for health and social care here in Wales.

I also recognise your broader point about the consultation within Shropshire, the Future Fit consultation, and I know that you've spoken about this on a number of occasions. The preferred option, option 1, would see the emergency care site remain in Shrewsbury, with planned care moving further away, and that is also the preference of the health board. We will know at the end of this month what option is to be pursued, and I look forward to having a properly constructive relationship between Powys health board and their partners. Of course, that will include seeing them through the current period of special measures within Shrewsbury, but Powys health board, you will be pleased to know, are on top of that situation and making sure that work that they commission on behalf of Powys residents is undertaken at the right time and at the right quality.

Ceir dau bwynt yma. Y cyntaf yw bod bwrdd iechyd addysgu Powys eisoes yn darparu amrywiaeth o ofal iechyd wedi'i gynllunio, ac mewn gwirionedd, mae ganddynt hanes da iawn o'i ddarparu ar amser. Mae ganddynt uchelgais gwirioneddol hefyd, ac rydym yn hapus i'w gefnogi, i barhau i ddarparu cymaint o ofal iechyd wedi'i gynllunio ym Mhowys neu mor lleol i Bowys â phosibl. Ar nifer o fy ymweliadau â lleoliadau ym Mhowys, maent wedi sôn am beth arall y gallant ei ddarparu yn y lleoliadau hynny er mwyn lleihau'r amser y byddai pobl yn ei gymryd fel arall i deithio i ganolfannau gwahanol. Er enghraifft, mewn gofal mamolaeth, gall mwy o fenywod gael mynediad at ofal mamolaeth cymhleth a arweinir gan fydwraig ym Mhowys, yn hytrach na gorfod teithio'n bellach i'w gael, a chefnogir y dyheadau hynny, wrth gwrs, gan y cynllun cyffredinol o fewn ein cynllun, 'Cymru Iachach', y cynllun iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol hirdymor yma yng Nghymru.

Rwyf hefyd yn cydnabod eich pwynt ehangach ynglŷn â'r ymgynghoriad yn Swydd Amwythig, ymgynghoriad Future Fit, a gwn eich bod wedi sôn am hyn ar sawl achlysur. Byddai'r opsiwn a ffafrir, opsiwn 1, yn golygu bod y safle gofal brys yn aros yn yr Amwythig, gyda gofal wedi'i gynllunio yn symud ymhellach i ffwrdd, a dyna'r opsiwn a ffafrir gan y bwrdd iechyd hefyd. Byddwn yn gwybod erbyn diwedd y mis pa opsiwn a ddewisir, ac edrychaf ymlaen at weld perthynas wirioneddol adeiladol rhwng bwrdd iechyd Powys a'u partneriaid. Wrth gwrs, bydd hynny'n cynnwys eu gweld yn mynd drwy'r cyfnod presennol o fesurau arbennig yn yr Amwythig, ond byddwch yn falch o glywed bod bwrdd iechyd Powys yn ymdopi â'r sefyllfa honno ac yn sicrhau bod gwaith y maent yn ei gomisiynu ar ran trigolion Powys yn cael ei gyflawni ar yr adeg iawn ac i'r safon iawn.

14:30

Can I just take the opportunity formally to congratulate you on retaining your post? I look forward to working with you. I meant to do that in committee this morning and apologise for neglecting to do so. 

To return, obviously, to the issue of planned healthcare in Montgomeryshire, you'll be aware, of course, of the important role that GP surgeries can play in this regard and some of the major challenges that Powys health board is facing in recruiting and retaining GPs. One of the issues that has been put to me as a matter of concern is that GPs often have large and quite-expensive-to-run-and-maintain premises, and that there is increasing reluctance amongst younger doctors to take on the kind of commitment required to run those kinds of premises, as well as to be delivering primary healthcare. What support and guidance is the Welsh Government giving to health boards to enable them to work constructively with GPs, particularly as those GPs may be moving up towards the age of retirement, to ensure that we can retain these important facilities, particularly in those rural communities?

A gaf fi fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn i'ch llongyfarch yn ffurfiol ar gadw eich swydd? Edrychaf ymlaen at weithio gyda chi. Roeddwn wedi bwriadu gwneud hynny yn y pwyllgor y bore yma ac rwy'n ymddiheuro am fethu gwneud hynny.

I ddychwelyd, yn amlwg, at fater gofal iechyd wedi'i gynllunio yn Sir Drefaldwyn, fe fyddwch yn gwybod, wrth gwrs, am y rôl bwysig y gall meddygfeydd meddygon teulu ei chwarae yn hyn o beth a rhai o'r heriau mawr y mae bwrdd iechyd Powys yn eu hwynebu o ran recriwtio a chadw meddygon teulu. Un o'r materion o bryder sydd wedi eu dwyn i fy sylw yw fod gan feddygon teulu safleoedd mawr sy'n eithaf drud i'w rhedeg a'u cynnal yn aml, a bod amharodrwydd cynyddol ymhlith meddygon iau i ysgwyddo'r math o ymrwymiad sydd ei angen i redeg y mathau hynny o safleoedd yn ogystal â darparu gofal iechyd sylfaenol. Pa gymorth ac arweiniad y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei ddarparu i fyrddau iechyd i'w galluogi i weithio'n adeiladol gyda meddygon teulu, yn enwedig gan y gallai'r meddygon teulu hynny fod yn agosáu at oedran ymddeol, i sicrhau y gallwn gadw'r cyfleusterau pwysig hyn, yn enwedig mewn cymunedau gwledig?

Yes, of course I recognise the challenge. It's not simply local to Montgomeryshire, as I'm sure you and other Members know. Around the country there are challenges with facilities that have served their local population well over a period of time, but we now recognise we all want to see them reformed and improved. So, that's being resolved in a number of different ways, with health boards having partnerships with individual practices, with groups of practices, and indeed with local government and housing partners too. You can see a range of areas where that partnership has been a good thing for the provision of local services to move into new purpose-built facilities. 

There's also the broader challenge, not just about premises, but indemnity and last-man or last-person-standing potential liabilities, which are a real issue for younger GPs, who may not wish to enter into a partnership, but more than that, a change in the way that people want to work. A number of younger GPs, regardless of those issues, simply don't want to buy into a practice and give a very long-term commitment. All of those things are a regular part of our discussion within the general practice committee of the British Medical Association, and they're a regular feature of my discussions with each individual health board and their partners. 

Rwy'n cydnabod yr her, wrth gwrs. Nid yn Sir Drefaldwyn yn unig y mae'n digwydd, fel y gwyddoch chi a'r Aelodau eraill, rwy'n siŵr. Ledled y wlad, ceir heriau gyda chyfleusterau sydd wedi gwasanaethu eu poblogaethau lleol yn dda dros gyfnod o amser, ond rydym bellach yn cydnabod bod pob un ohonom am eu gweld yn cael eu diwygio a'u gwella. Felly, mae hynny'n cael ei ddatrys mewn nifer o ffyrdd gwahanol, gyda byrddau iechyd yn mynd i bartneriaeth â phractisau unigol, â grwpiau o bractisau, ac yn wir, â phartneriaid llywodraeth leol a'r maes tai hefyd. Gallwch weld amrywiaeth o ardaloedd lle y mae'r bartneriaeth honno wedi bod yn beth da ar gyfer symud y ddarpariaeth o wasanaethau lleol i gyfleusterau pwrpasol newydd.

Ceir her ehangach hefyd, nid yn unig mewn perthynas â safleoedd, ond ynghylch indemniad a rhwymedigaethau posibl yr unigolyn 'olaf i adael', ac mae hynny'n broblem go iawn i feddygon teulu iau, nad ydynt o bosibl yn dymuno mynd i bartneriaeth, ond yn fwy na hynny, oherwydd newid yn y ffordd y mae pobl eisiau gweithio. Ceir nifer o feddygon teulu ifanc, ni waeth am y materion hynny, nad ydynt yn dymuno prynu i mewn i bractis a gwneud ymrwymiad hirdymor iawn. Mae'r holl bethau hynny'n rhan reolaidd o'n trafodaeth ym mhwyllgor ymarfer cyffredinol Cymdeithas Feddygol Prydain, ac maent yn rhan reolaidd o fy nhrafodaethau gyda phob bwrdd iechyd unigol a'u partneriaid.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cwestiynau nawr i'r Gweinidog gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Helen Mary Jones. 

Questions now to the Minister for the party spokespeople. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Helen Mary Jones. 

Diolch yn fawr eto, Llywydd. 

Thank you very much again, Llywydd. 

Minister, we were discussing in committee this morning the ongoing concerns on some of the issues around Brexit and the healthcare system, and you'll be aware that on 17 November the issue of The British Medical Journal starkly stated that patients will die if we can't maintain the medicine supply chain. Can you update us on the contingency plans that your department is putting into place to ensure the supply of medicines, particularly medicines with limited shelf lives that cannot be stored in the event of a 'no deal' scenario, which, of course, we're all hoping may not occur, but is becoming increasingly a risk?

Weinidog, yn y pwyllgor y bore yma, buom yn trafod y pryderon parhaus ynglŷn â rhai o'r materion sy'n ymwneud â Brexit a'r system gofal iechyd, ac fe fyddwch yn gwybod fod rhifyn 17 Tachwedd o'r British Medical Journal wedi datgan yn blwmp ac yn blaen y bydd cleifion yn marw os na allwn gynnal y gadwyn gyflenwi meddyginiaethau. A allwch roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni ynglŷn â chynlluniau wrth gefn eich adran i ddiogelu'r cyflenwad o feddyginiaethau, yn enwedig meddyginiaethau gydag oes silff gyfyngedig na ellir eu storio mewn senario 'dim bargen', sy'n rhywbeth y mae pob un ohonom yn gobeithio na fydd yn digwydd wrth gwrs, ond sy'n dod yn fwy ac yn fwy o risg?

Thank you for the question. As you know, I've made statements in this place before about our preparations for any form of Brexit, but in particular a 'no deal' Brexit. I've set out the range and the seriousness of my concerns about the impact of a 'no deal' Brexit. And the undeniable truth is that if we crash out without a deal at the end of March, it will have a real and almost immediate impact upon people's health and well-being. The reality is that if we have challenges about trading arrangements, not simply about whether people do or don't wish to continue to supply a range of medical devices, equipment and medicines, then there will be an impact.

I have a further meeting with the health and social care stakeholders in Wales, focusing on Brexit, tomorrow. Myself and the Deputy Minister will be attending. We'll continue to outline with them the current state of our preparations, both within Wales and, indeed, the measures we are seeking to take together with partners across the United Kingdom. I may well be in a position to update this place with a further statement on our preparations for, and the impact of, a 'no deal' Brexit within a very short period of time. 

Diolch am eich cwestiwn. Fel y gwyddoch, rwyf wedi gwneud datganiadau yn y lle hwn eisoes am ein paratoadau ar gyfer unrhyw fath o Brexit, ond yn benodol am Brexit 'dim bargen'. Rwyf wedi nodi hyd a lled a difrifoldeb fy mhryderon ynghylch effaith Brexit 'dim bargen'. A'r gwir diymwad yw, os ydym yn gadael heb gytundeb ar ddiwedd mis Mawrth, bydd hynny'n cael effaith wirioneddol a bron ar unwaith ar iechyd a lles pobl. Y gwir amdani yw, os ydym yn wynebu heriau gyda threfniadau masnachu, nid yn unig ynglŷn ag a yw pobl yn dymuno parhau i gyflenwi ystod o ddyfeisiau meddygol, offer a meddyginiaethau ai peidio, yna bydd hynny'n cael effaith.

Byddaf yn cael cyfarfod pellach gyda rhanddeiliaid iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru yfory i ganolbwyntio ar Brexit. Bydd y Dirprwy Weinidog a minnau yn ei fynychu. Byddwn yn parhau i amlinellu cyflwr presennol ein paratoadau iddynt, yng Nghymru, ac yn wir, y camau rydym yn ceisio'u cymryd ar y cyd â phartneriaid ledled y Deyrnas Unedig. Efallai y byddaf mewn sefyllfa i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r lle hwn am ein paratoadau ar gyfer Brexit 'dim bargen' a'i effaith heb fod yn hir iawn.

I'm grateful to you for that, Minister, and I think the whole Chamber will look forward to that update. As I've said, it's a situation that we're all hoping will be avoided, but does seem to be becoming more of a real threat. I'd like to give you a specific example to illustrate the dangers that we face, which I'm sure you're very well aware of. The radioactive isotope technetium is used in about 850,000 scans in the UK for a whole range of conditions, including heart disease and cancers. This product has a half-life of just 66 hours, meaning that it can't be stored and stockpiled. Currently, the UK as a whole relies on a continuous supply of this product from France, Belgium and the Netherlands, and that supply is governed by the Euratom agreement. The nearest potential non-EU suppliers are in South Africa and Ontario in Canada, and obviously couldn't be useful to us in this situation. And, obviously, this is only one example, because there are many types of isotopes that can't be stockpiled. We know that even under the existing arrangements Northern Ireland had problems twice—in 2009 and 2013—due to the logistical challenges of getting this product in time. Can you explain how hospitals in Wales will be getting these types of products in the event of a 'no deal' Brexit?

Rwy'n ddiolchgar ichi am hynny, Weinidog, a chredaf y bydd y Siambr gyfan yn edrych ymlaen at gael yr wybodaeth honno. Fel y dywedais, mae'n sefyllfa y mae pob un ohonom yn gobeithio'i hosgoi, ond ymddengys ei bod yn dod yn fwy o fygythiad go iawn. Hoffwn roi enghraifft benodol i chi er mwyn dangos y peryglon sy'n ein hwynebu, ac rwy'n siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol iawn ohoni. Defnyddir yr isotop ymbelydrol technetiwm mewn oddeutu 850,000 o sganiau yn y DU ar gyfer amrywiaeth eang o gyflyrau, gan gynnwys clefyd y galon a chanser. Mae gan y cynnyrch hwn hanner-oes o 66 awr yn unig, sy'n golygu na ellir ei gadw a'i storio. Ar hyn o bryd, mae'r DU yn ei chyfanrwydd yn dibynnu ar gyflenwad parhaol o'r cynnyrch hwn o Ffrainc, Gwlad Belg a'r Iseldiroedd, a rheolir y cyflenwad hwnnw gan gytundeb Euratom. Mae'r cyflenwyr posibl agosaf nad ydynt yn yr UE yn Ne Affrica ac yn Ontario yng Nghanada, ac yn amlwg, ni allant fod yn ddefnyddiol i ni yn y sefyllfa hon. Ac yn amlwg, un enghraifft yn unig yw hon, gan fod sawl math o isotop na ellir eu storio. Gwyddom fod Gogledd Iwerddon, hyd yn oed dan y trefniadau presennol, wedi cael problemau ddwywaith—yn 2009 ac yn 2013—oherwydd yr heriau logistaidd sy'n ymwneud â chyflenwi'r cynnyrch mewn pryd. A allwch egluro sut y bydd ysbytai yng Nghymru yn cael y mathau hyn o gynhyrchion pe baem yn cael Brexit 'dim bargen'?

14:35

In the event of a 'no deal' Brexit, it will be virtually impossible to continue supply chains in exactly the same way as now. Much of this comes on road freight and the undeniable reality is that if there are problems in road freight that affect our ports, as you'll have seen from the exercise undertaken recently and reported in the Financial Times—hardly an organ of fearmongering or left-wing conspiracy theories—it demonstrates the significant and quite shocking impact of minor delays for all freight transport coming into the country. The alternative plan, which is not a secret, is about, if that were to be the case, whether medicines with very short half-lives before they're no longer useful—and I've regularly talked about nuclear medicine and radioisotopes in the past as well—for those to be flown, and that would undeniably provide an additional cost, and it may affect the supply. But the additional cost would then have to be borne by the taxpayer. So, there is, undeniably, a challenge, and I've also regularly talked about the challenge for insulin that is made for type 1 diabetics. We make nothing like enough insulin for type 1 diabetics to cover our own population. And, again, in a 'no deal' Brexit, that is one of the very real risks to directly affect people's health and well-being almost immediately.

Pe bai Brexit 'dim bargen', byddai bron iawn yn amhosibl i gadwyni cyflenwi barhau yn yr un ffordd ag y maent yn ei wneud ar hyn o bryd. Caiff llawer o hyn ei gludo ar y ffyrdd a'r realiti diymwad yw, os oes problemau gyda chludo nwyddau ar y ffyrdd sy'n effeithio ar ein porthladdoedd, fel y byddwch wedi'i weld yn sgil yr ymarfer a gynhaliwyd yn ddiweddar ac yr adroddwyd yn ei gylch yn y Financial Times—a phrin fod y papur hwnnw'n offeryn i godi bwganod neu'n lledaenu damcaniaethau cynllwyn asgell chwith—mae'n dangos effaith sylweddol ac eithaf syfrdanol mân achosion o oedi ar yr holl nwyddau sy'n cael eu cludo i mewn i'r wlad. Pe bai hynny'n digwydd, mae'r cynllun arall, nad yw'n gyfrinach, yn ymwneud â pha un a ellir trefnu i feddyginiaethau gyda hanner-oes byr iawn cyn iddynt orffen bod yn ddefnyddiol—ac rwyf wedi siarad droeon am feddyginiaeth niwclear a radioisotopau yn y gorffennol hefyd—gael eu hedfan draw ac yn ddiau, byddai hynny'n arwain at gost ychwanegol, a gallai effeithio ar y cyflenwad. Ond wedyn, byddai'n rhaid i'r trethdalwr ysgwyddo'r gost ychwanegol. Felly, heb amheuaeth, mae'n her, ac rwyf hefyd wedi sôn droeon am yr her i inswlin a gynhyrchir ar gyfer pobl â diabetes math 1. Nid ydym yn cynhyrchu agos digon o inswlin ar gyfer pobl â diabetes math 1 yn ein poblogaeth. Ac unwaith eto, mewn Brexit 'dim bargen', dyna un o'r peryglon gwirioneddol a fyddai'n effeithio'n uniongyrchol ar iechyd a lles pobl bron ar unwaith.

Thank you, Minister, and perhaps you can give us some further information following the stakeholder meeting about the precise arrangements if we do face the issue of having to fly medicines in.

You mentioned in your response the additional cost to the NHS. As part of the potential 'no deal' Brexit preparations—. I must say that I have some frustrations with Members there; I'm sure that you will have opportunities to respond to these points to the Minister, but it's very difficult to have a sensible conversation about these issues when people are making comments from a sedentary position.

Minister, have you made any assessment of what these potential extra costs might be, and how is that being built into your contingency planning? I realise that these potential costs are, at this stage, theoretical, and hopefully that's an issue that we won't have to face, but I'm sure that you would agree with me that it's crucial that, in terms of planning for the worst-case scenario, you have some clear idea about what those additional costs you may need to face are.

Diolch, Weinidog, ac efallai y gallwch roi rhagor o wybodaeth inni yn dilyn y cyfarfod â'r rhanddeiliaid ynghylch yr union drefniadau pe baem yn wynebu gorfod hedfan meddyginiaethau draw.

Soniasoch yn eich ymateb am y gost ychwanegol i'r GIG. Fel rhan o'r paratoadau ar gyfer y posibilrwydd o Brexit 'dim bargen'—. Mae'n rhaid imi ddweud bod yr Aelodau draw acw'n peri peth rhwystredigaeth i mi; rwy'n siŵr y cewch gyfle i ymateb i'r pwyntiau hyn i'r Gweinidog, ond mae'n anodd iawn cael trafodaeth synhwyrol ynglŷn â'r materion hyn pan fydd pobl yn gwneud sylwadau ar eu heistedd.

Weinidog, a ydych wedi gwneud unrhyw asesiad o'r costau ychwanegol posibl hyn, a sut y mae hynny'n cael ei gynnwys yn eich cynlluniau wrth gefn? Rwy'n sylweddoli bod y costau posibl hyn, ar hyn o bryd, yn rhai damcaniaethol, a gobeithio y bydd hwnnw'n fater na fydd yn rhaid inni ei wynebu, ond rwy'n siŵr y byddech yn cytuno ei bod hi'n hanfodol, o ran cynllunio ar gyfer y senario waethaf, fod gennych ryw fath o syniad clir ynglŷn â'r costau ychwanegol y gallech orfod eu hwynebu.

Yes, there's a challenge about theoretical costs, but costs are actually being soaked up now. For example, there's the additional cost that the health service across the four nations of the UK is undertaking to increase storage capacity, and the costs that we are spending now on planning for potential scenarios, when we know that at least one scenario is not going to be—well, more than one scenario is not going to be the reality where we find ourselves at the end of March. Every Government within the United Kingdom is having to run through this particular challenge. Officials regularly speak to each other, as well as our individual conversations within each of the four UK nations. I do hope to be in a position to provide more information about cost, about the arrangements that we are undertaking. I also hope that there will be a positive response from health Minister counterparts across the UK—four health Ministers of different Governments and different political backgrounds—to nevertheless have a constructive and upfront conversation about what we can do to support each other, and the risks that we each recognise exist, depending on whatever form of Brexit occurs, should we leave the European Union, and the impact that would have on our health and social care system. I know that my colleague in Scotland is equally keen to have that meeting with our counterpart in the United Kingdom Government and whoever would attend from the Northern Ireland Government—whichever official that may be.

Ie, mae yna her ynghylch costau damcaniaethol, ond mewn gwirionedd, mae'r costau'n cynyddu ar hyn o bryd. Er enghraifft, ceir cost ychwanegol y mae'r gwasanaeth iechyd ledled pedair gwlad y DU yn ei hysgwyddo i gynyddu capasiti storio, a'r costau rydym yn eu gwario ar hyn o bryd ar gynllunio ar gyfer senarios posibl, pan wyddom nad yw un senario o leiaf am fod—wel, ni fydd mwy nag un senario yn realiti erbyn diwedd mis Mawrth. Mae pob Llywodraeth yn y Deyrnas Unedig yn gorfod ymdopi â'r her benodol hon. Mae swyddogion yn siarad â'i gilydd yn rheolaidd, yn ogystal â'n sgyrsiau o fewn pedair gwlad y DU yn unigol. Rwy'n gobeithio bod mewn sefyllfa i ddarparu mwy o wybodaeth am gostau, am y trefniadau rydym yn eu cyflawni. Rwy'n gobeithio hefyd y cawn ymateb cadarnhaol gan Weinidogion iechyd cyfatebol ledled y DU—pedwar Gweinidog iechyd y gwahanol Lywodraethau o wahanol gefndiroedd gwleidyddol—i gael sgwrs adeiladol ac agored serch hynny ynglŷn â'r hyn y gallwn ei wneud i gefnogi ein gilydd, a'r peryglon y mae pob un ohonom yn cydnabod eu bod yn bodoli, gan ddibynnu ar ba ffurf o Brexit a gawn, os ydym yn gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, a'r effaith y byddai hynny'n ei chael ar ein system iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Gwn fod fy ngweinidog cyfatebol yn yr Alban yr un mor awyddus i gael y cyfarfod hwnnw gyda'n gweinidog cyfatebol yn Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig a pha swyddog bynnag a fyddai'n mynychu o Lywodraeth Gogledd Iwerddon.

Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Darren Millar.

The Conservative spokesperson, Darren Millar.

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, can I ask you why it's taken you so long to intervene in the situation in Cwm Taf university health board?

Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, a gaf fi ofyn i chi pam ei bod wedi cymryd cyhyd i ymyrryd yn y sefyllfa ym mwrdd iechyd prifysgol Cwm Taf?

It hasn't taken a long time at all. I've kept this Chamber updated at all points on the intervention around the initial issue around maternity care, and, indeed, following the very recent tripartite meeting between the chief executive of NHS Wales, Healthcare Inspectorate Wales and the Wales Audit Office, I made an early choice—as you will have seen from today's written statement—to change the escalation status of Cwm Taf from 'normal' to 'enhanced monitoring'. And I of course will be answering a topical question on this matter in a few minutes' time.

Nid yw wedi cymryd llawer o amser o gwbl. Rwyf wedi rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Siambr hon ar bob pwynt mewn perthynas â'r ymyrraeth o ran y mater cychwynnol ynghylch gofal mamolaeth, ac yn wir, yn dilyn y cyfarfod tairochrog diweddar iawn rhwng prif weithredwr GIG Cymru, Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru a Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, gwneuthum ddewis cynnar—fel y byddwch wedi'i weld o'r datganiad ysgrifenedig heddiw—i newid statws uwchgyfeirio Cwm Taf o 'arferol' i 'monitro gwell'. Ac wrth gwrs, byddaf yn ateb cwestiwn amserol ar y mater hwn ymhen ychydig funudau.

14:40

It was on 4 October, Minister, that concerns about maternity services were first exposed at the Cwm Taf university health board. Your statement today refers to non-compliance with health and safety and radiation regulations, quality of governance and serious incident reporting arrangements, the lack of action and response to healthcare inspectorate reports, and staffing shortages also in that health board being problematic. Many people in that health board area will be wondering why on earth it's taken three months—more than three months—for the Welsh Government to escalate the situation there in order to secure some improvement.

Of course, Cwm Taf is not the only health board that is currently in escalation measures. Five out of seven Welsh health boards, supporting 2.4 million people in Wales—three quarters of our population—are currently being served by health boards that are subject to intervention. Does that not concern you, in terms of the speed of the response, because it certainly concerns me?    

Ar 4 Hydref, Weinidog, amlygwyd pryderon am y tro cyntaf ynglŷn â gwasanaethau mamolaeth bwrdd iechyd prifysgol Cwm Taf. Cyfeiria eich datganiad heddiw at ddiffyg cydymffurfio â rheoliadau iechyd a diogelwch ac ymbelydredd, ansawdd llywodraethu a threfniadau adrodd ynghylch digwyddiadau difrifol, diffyg gweithredu ac ymateb i adroddiadau'r arolygiaeth gofal iechyd, a phrinder staff hefyd fel ffactorau sy'n achosi problemau yn y bwrdd iechyd hwnnw. Bydd llawer o bobl yn ardal y bwrdd iechyd yn pendroni pam ar y ddaear ei bod wedi cymryd tri mis—mwy na thri mis—i Lywodraeth Cymru uwchgyfeirio'r sefyllfa yno er mwyn sicrhau rhywfaint o welliant.

Wrth gwrs, nid Cwm Taf yw'r unig fwrdd iechyd sydd mewn mesurau uwchgyfeirio ar hyn o bryd. Mae pump o'r saith bwrdd iechyd yng Nghymru, sy'n cefnogi 2.4 miliwn o bobl yng Nghymru—tri chwarter ein poblogaeth—yn cael eu gwasanaethu ar hyn o bryd gan fyrddau iechyd sy'n destunau ymyrraeth. Onid yw hynny'n peri pryder ichi, o ran cyflymder yr ymateb, gan ei fod yn bendant yn peri pryder i mi?

Well, I would hope there would be a more rational and factually founded response on these matters. Trying to conflate the issue of maternity services with the areas that are outlined in my written statement today simply does not stand up to honest scrutiny. On maternity services, we acted properly and promptly, with the conversations that took place between the chief nurse's office and the health board, and the decision that I then took that the review jointly by two royal colleges should be undertaken independently, with the Government actually being, if you like, the sponsoring organisation, rather than the health board. I expect to have that report available in the spring. So, these matters are being addressed appropriately and are being addressed speedily by the Government and the broader health service. I look forward to being able to provide more facts on this matter as that report is provided, as indeed I expect to have more to say on the actions that will be taken by the health board in response to my decision today to change the escalation status of Cwm Taf university health board. 

Wel, buaswn yn gobeithio cael ymateb mwy rhesymol a seiliedig ar ffeithiau ar y materion hyn. Nid yw ceisio cyfuno mater gwasanaethau mamolaeth gyda'r meysydd a amlinellir yn fy natganiad ysgrifenedig heddiw yn gydnaws â chraffu gonest. Ar wasanaethau mamolaeth, fe wnaethom weithredu'n briodol ac yn amserol, gyda'r sgyrsiau a ddigwyddodd rhwng swyddfa'r brif nyrs a'r bwrdd iechyd, a'r penderfyniad a wneuthum wedyn y dylid cynnal adolygiad ar y cyd gan ddau goleg brenhinol yn annibynnol, gyda'r Llywodraeth mewn gwirionedd, os mynnwch, yn gweithredu fel y corff noddi, yn hytrach na'r bwrdd iechyd. Rwy'n disgwyl i'r adroddiad hwnnw fod ar gael yn y gwanwyn. Felly, mae'r materion hyn yn cael sylw priodol ac yn cael sylw cyflym gan y Llywodraeth a'r gwasanaeth iechyd ehangach. Edrychaf ymlaen at allu darparu mwy o ffeithiau ar y mater hwn wrth i'r adroddiad gael ei ddarparu, fel yn wir y disgwyliaf allu dweud mwy ynglŷn â'r camau y bydd y bwrdd iechyd yn eu cymryd mewn ymateb i fy mhenderfyniad heddiw i newid statws uwchgyfeirio bwrdd iechyd prifysgol Cwm Taf.

The situation, of course, should have been escalated from day one as soon as the maternity situation had been exposed in that particular health board, and I'm sure that many people will have been disappointed with the speed at which the Welsh Government has acted.

You failed to respond to the fact that five out of seven health boards are currently in escalation intervention arrangements of some form and that three quarters of the Welsh population are being served by those health boards. Doesn't that tell you, if five out of seven health boards are currently in escalation arrangements—many of them have been in for a long time, including the Betsi Cadwaladr health board, over three and a half years to date and no sign of it being taken out of special measures yet—doesn't that tell you that you are a failing Welsh Labour Government that's failing to get to grips with the problems in our national health service, and that you are not acting swiftly enough to remedy them? 

Dylai'r sefyllfa, wrth gwrs, fod wedi cael ei huwchgyfeirio o'r cychwyn cyntaf cyn gynted ag y daeth y sefyllfa mamolaeth i'r amlwg yn y bwrdd iechyd penodol hwnnw, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd llawer o bobl wedi eu siomi gan ba mor araf y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gweithredu.

Nid ydych wedi ymateb i'r ffaith bod pump o'r saith bwrdd iechyd yn destun trefniadau ymyrryd ac uwchgyfeirio o ryw fath ar hyn o bryd a bod tri chwarter poblogaeth Cymru yn cael eu gwasanaethu gan y byrddau iechyd hynny. Onid yw hynny'n dweud wrthych, os yw pump o'r saith bwrdd iechyd yn destun trefniadau uwchgyfeirio ar hyn o bryd—ac mae llawer ohonynt wedi bod felly ers peth amser, gan gynnwys bwrdd iechyd Betsi Cadwaladr, dros dair blynedd a hanner hyd yma heb unrhyw arwydd eto o'u tynnu allan o fesurau arbennig—onid yw hynny'n dweud wrthych eich bod yn Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru sy'n methu, ac wedi methu mynd i'r afael â phroblemau yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, ac nad ydych yn gweithredu'n ddigon cyflym i'w datrys?

Well, it is much easier, as the Member demonstrates, to chase headlines than to deal with the facts in front of them. It would have been entirely wrong—it would have been entirely wrong—as the Member knows very well, to have intervened in October on the very first day when concerns were raised about maternity services. I am doing the right thing by the country and by the people served by these individual health boards and indeed by the staff who deliver those services. I expect there to be proper scrutiny of the choices that I make and of the conduct of each and every health organisation within the country. An escalation, of course, has taken place for different reasons in different health boards and I look forward to organisations reducing their level of escalation as well, as I expect will happen at various points over the next year and more.

We are planning for the future, and we are delivering that future, and, indeed, the people of Wales have great faith and confidence in our health service, as every single recognition of people's experience of healthcare demonstrates. The future for health and care services is a difficult one. We face a rising tide of demand, fast and rapid technological change and, of course, as we all know, a period of continuing austerity. Regardless of that, we have planned for the future. We have a long-term plan—a joint plan—for health and social care and I look forward to the United Kingdom Government catching up and having a joint plan—

Wel, fel y dengys yr Aelod, mae'n haws o lawer mynd ar drywydd penawdau nag ymdrin â'r ffeithiau o'u blaen. Byddai wedi bod yn gwbl anghywir—byddai wedi bod yn gwbl anghywir—fel y gŵyr yr Aelod yn iawn, inni ymyrryd ym mis Hydref ar y diwrnod cyntaf pan godwyd y pryderon ynghylch gwasanaethau mamolaeth. Rwy'n gwneud y peth iawn ar gyfer y wlad ac ar gyfer y bobl a wasanaethir gan y byrddau iechyd unigol hyn, ac yn wir, ar gyfer y staff sy'n darparu'r gwasanaethau. Rwy'n disgwyl y ceir craffu priodol ar y dewisiadau a wnaf yn ogystal ag ar ymddygiad pob sefydliad iechyd yn y wlad. Mae trefniadau uwchgyfeirio, wrth gwrs, wedi digwydd am wahanol resymau mewn gwahanol fyrddau iechyd ac edrychaf ymlaen at weld sefydliadau'n gostwng eu lefel uwchgyfeirio hefyd, fel rwy'n disgwyl ei weld yn digwydd ar adegau gwahanol dros y flwyddyn a mwy nesaf.

Rydym yn cynllunio ar gyfer y dyfodol, ac rydym yn darparu'r dyfodol hwnnw, ac yn wir, mae gan bobl Cymru ffydd a hyder mawr yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd, fel y dengys pob cydnabyddiaeth o brofiad pobl o ofal iechyd. Mae dyfodol gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal yn un anodd. Rydym yn wynebu ymchwydd yn y galw, newid technolegol sydyn a chyflym, ac wrth gwrs, fel y gŵyr pob un ohonom, cyfnod o gyni parhaus. Er hynny, rydym wedi cynllunio ar gyfer y dyfodol. Mae gennym gynllun hirdymor—cynllun ar y cyd—ar gyfer iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol ac edrychaf ymlaen at weld Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yn dal i fyny ac yn sicrhau bod ganddynt gynllun ar y cyd—

He should put his money where his mouth is.

Dylai roi ei arian ar ei air.

—to deliver health and care together.

—i ddarparu iechyd a gofal gyda'i gilydd.

Llefarydd UKIP, Neil Hamilton. 

UKIP spokesperson, Neil Hamilton. 

The Minister may recall that last October I raised with him the non-availability for patients of GPs in north Wales of the internet tool myhealthonline for making appointments. He kindly wrote to me subsequently saying that this wasn't a policy decision, but sometimes this system wasn't available because it was impossible to match patient need to GP availability in practice, in particular where there were large numbers of locums. The implication, of course, being that there are periods of time when it's not possible to access the service. Is he aware that there have been successful trials in London of this tool in GP practices, whereby administration has been cut and efficiencies have been improved? In one particular instance, GP waiting lists were cut from four weeks to just one day, and 25 per cent of 2,500 patients needed an appointment, so 75 per cent were able to be dealt with without taking up GPs' time in the surgery, with many other advantages as well, and GPs processed 30 online patient queries in the time it took otherwise to see 18 face to face. So, clearly this is an important and useful tool, where we're constantly facing the problem of matching needs to means. So, can the Minister assure me that he will pull out all the stops to ensure that this internet tool is available as often as it is needed, not just in north Wales but throughout the NHS in Wales?

Efallai y bydd y Gweinidog yn cofio, fis Hydref diwethaf, i mi godi'r ffaith nad oedd offeryn ar-lein Fy Iechyd Ar-lein ar gael i gleifion meddygon teulu yng ngogledd Cymru allu gwneud apwyntiadau. Yn garedig iawn, ysgrifennodd ataf wedyn i ddweud nad penderfyniad polisi oedd hwn, ond weithiau, nid oedd y system ar gael gan fod cyfateb anghenion cleifion i argaeledd meddygon teulu yn ymarferol amhosibl, yn enwedig lle'r oedd niferoedd uchel o staff locwm. Yr awgrym, wrth gwrs, oedd fod cyfnodau o amser pan nad oes modd cael mynediad at y gwasanaeth. A yw'n ymwybodol fod treialon llwyddiannus wedi eu cynnal yn Llundain o'r adnodd hwn mewn practisau meddygon teulu, gan arwain at leihau gwaith gweinyddol a gwella effeithlonrwydd? Mewn un achos penodol, cafodd rhestrau aros meddygon teulu eu torri o bedair wythnos i un diwrnod yn unig, ac roedd angen apwyntiad ar 25 y cant o'r 2,500 o gleifion, felly roedd modd ymdrin â 75 y cant heb ddefnyddio amser y meddygon teulu yn y feddygfa, gyda llawer o fanteision eraill hefyd, a llwyddodd meddygon teulu i brosesu 30 o ymholiadau cleifion ar-lein yn yr amser a fyddai wedi'i gymryd fel arall i weld 18 o gleifion wyneb yn wyneb. Felly, yn amlwg, mae hwn yn offeryn pwysig a defnyddiol, lle rydym yn wynebu'r broblem gyson o baru anghenion â modd. Felly, a all y Gweinidog roi sicrwydd imi y bydd yn gwneud popeth yn ei allu i sicrhau bod yr offeryn ar-lein hwn ar gael mor aml ag y bo'i angen, nid yn unig yng ngogledd Cymru ond ar gyfer pob rhan o'r GIG yng Nghymru?

14:45

I think that the challenge that you've set out is not how we simply continue to deliver what we have now, but what the future looks like and the necessary reform to get there, and not just in the area of making better use of technology. In the long-term plan for health and social care, you will see a significant section on making better use of technology and, in particular, digital technology.

That's partly about access, and the examples that you gave are about access, and I don't think it's just about one particular tool. A range of different computing tools, as it were, are available to try and enhance and make better use of staff time in doing so. It's also about then having the staff who are able to operate that system, and not just to operate the system as a digital technician but then to provide the clinical support to enable the system to work properly. So, there's more that we could and should do, and we expect to do, in local healthcare but also in hospital-based care about access, about diagnosis and treatment and making better use of technology that should ultimately mean that it's a better place for our staff to work as well as a better experience for patients when they do need healthcare themselves.

Credaf mai'r her rydych wedi'i nodi yw nid sut y gallwn barhau i gyflenwi'r hyn sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd, ond sut y mae'r dyfodol yn edrych a'r diwygio sy'n angenrheidiol er mwyn cyrraedd yno, ac nid yn unig ym maes gwneud gwell defnydd o dechnoleg. Yn y cynllun hirdymor ar gyfer iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, fe welwch adran sylweddol ar wneud gwell defnydd o dechnoleg, ac o dechnoleg ddigidol yn benodol.

Mae hynny'n ymwneud yn rhannol â mynediad, ac mae'r enghreifftiau a roesoch yn ymwneud â mynediad, ac ni chredaf fod hyn yn ymwneud ag un adnodd penodol yn unig. Mae amrywiaeth o wahanol adnoddau cyfrifiadurol, fel petai, ar gael i geisio gwella a gwneud gwell defnydd o amser staff wrth wneud hynny. Mae'n ymwneud hefyd â sicrhau bod gennym staff sy'n gallu gweithredu'r system honno, ac nid yn unig gweithredu'r system fel technegydd digidol, ond darparu'r cymorth clinigol wedyn i alluogi'r system i weithio'n iawn. Felly, mae mwy y gallem ac y dylem ei wneud, ac rydym yn disgwyl ei wneud, mewn gofal iechyd lleol ond hefyd ym maes gofal ysbytai mewn perthynas â mynediad, mewn perthynas â diagnosis a thriniaeth a gwneud gwell defnydd o dechnoleg, ac yn y pen draw, dylai hynny olygu ei fod yn lle gwell i'n staff weithio yn ogystal â bod yn well profiad i gleifion pan fo angen gofal iechyd arnynt.

I thank the Minister for that response, and, of course, he makes some very important and sensible points in response to my question. He'll be well aware of the problems that we had faced in Wales in the NHS Wales informatics systems, and the Public Accounts Committee published a report a very short time ago that says that we believe that NWIS is primarily focused on running outdated IT systems, and that at a time when the potential of digital healthcare is capturing the imagination and improving patient outcomes, just 10 per cent of NWIS's activities are focused on innovation. 

The clinical trials that I mentioned a moment ago in London were carried out by a medical software company called EMIS, but that has now lost its preferred vendor status as a result of a decision of NWIS here in Wales. So, here we've got, first of all, a damning report of NWIS's activities in recent years and the failure of their attempts to modernise the NHS computer system, and yet, on the other hand, they're taking away provider status from a company that has been successfully providing exactly the kind of services that we need. So, can the Minister tell me what he is doing to ensure that we don't get the kind of administrative crossing of wires that this kind of thing seems to have brought about in this instance?

Diolch i'r Gweinidog am ei ymateb, ac wrth gwrs, mae'n codi rhai pwyntiau synhwyrol a phwysig iawn mewn ymateb i fy nghwestiwn. Fe fydd yn ymwybodol iawn o'r problemau rydym wedi eu hwynebu yng Nghymru gyda systemau gwybodeg GIG Cymru, ac yn ddiweddar iawn, cyhoeddwyd adroddiad gan y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus a ddywedai ein bod yn credu bod Gwasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru yn canolbwyntio'n bennaf ar redeg systemau TG sydd wedi dyddio, ac ar adeg pan fo potensial gofal iechyd digidol yn tanio'r dychymyg ac yn gwella canlyniadau i gleifion, 10 y cant yn unig o weithgarwch Gwasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru sy'n canolbwyntio ar arloesi.

Cynhaliwyd y treialon clinigol a grybwyllais funud yn ôl yn Llundain gan gwmni meddalwedd feddygol o'r enw EMIS, ond maent hwy bellach wedi colli eu statws fel y darparwr a ffafrir o ganlyniad i benderfyniad gan Wasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru yma yng Nghymru. Felly yma, yn gyntaf oll, mae gennym adroddiad damniol o weithgareddau Gwasanaeth Gwybodeg GIG Cymru dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf a methiant eu hymdrechion i foderneiddio system gyfrifiadurol y GIG, ac eto, ar y llaw arall, maent yn cael gwared ar statws darparwr cwmni sydd wedi llwyddo i ddarparu'r union fath o wasanaethau y mae arnom eu hangen. Felly, a all y Gweinidog ddweud wrthyf beth y mae'n ei wneud i sicrhau nad ydym yn gweld y math o gamddeall gweinyddol a achoswyd gan y math hwn o beth, yn ôl pob golwg?

With respect, I think they are two different points. The first is about our system that we wish to have here within Wales and our strategic oversight, and about the level of resource that we could and should commit to maintaining our current systems. That is, in itself, a significant undertaking in addition to our ability and the resource that we put into reform and innovation. Of course, we'll respond to the PAC report and I expect that to be a regular topic of conversation now and in the future.

The point about EMIS is not so much that this is an example of people who have great innovative ideas who have been taken out of the system and that there is a disconnect, but actually what took place with EMIS and GP systems is that there was a tender exercise and they chose to submit a bid that did not comply with the basics of the tender. That decision not then to allow them to nevertheless carry on as a potential supplier was not simply made by the Government; it was actually supported by the general practice committee of the British Medical Association themselves. A representative group of doctors agreed that, given that EMIS had refused to comply with the tender, they should not therefore be rewarded in any event and be allowed to come back into the system. And unusually—because there were questions in the Chamber at the time from people from more than one party—since that time, there has not been a significant amount of complaint about it because we provided the support that we said would be made available, and broadly the GP community have accepted that we made the right choice in not allowing EMIS into the system when they'd refused to comply with the tender details.

Gyda phob parch, credaf eu bod yn ddau bwynt gwahanol. Mae'r cyntaf yn ymwneud â'r system yr hoffem ei chael yma yng Nghymru o dan ein goruchwyliaeth strategol ein hunain, ac ynghylch lefel yr adnoddau y gallem ac y dylem eu hymrwymo er mwyn cynnal ein systemau presennol. Mae hynny ynddo'i hun yn her sylweddol yn ogystal â'n gallu a'r adnoddau a roddwn tuag at ddiwygio ac arloesi. Wrth gwrs, byddwn yn ymateb i adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus ac rwy'n disgwyl y bydd hwnnw'n destun trafod rheolaidd ar hyn o bryd ac yn y dyfodol.

Nid yw'r pwynt ynglŷn ag EMIS yn ymwneud yn gymaint â'r ffaith bod hon yn enghraifft o bobl â syniadau arloesol gwych sydd wedi eu tynnu allan o'r system a bod diffyg cysylltiad yn bodoli, ond yn hytrach mai'r hyn a ddigwyddodd gydag EMIS a'r systemau meddygon teulu yw bod ymarfer tendro wedi'i gynnal, ac fe ddewisasant gyflwyno cais nad oedd yn cydymffurfio â gofynion sylfaenol y tendr. Nid oedd y penderfyniad hwnnw wedyn i beidio â chaniatáu iddynt barhau serch hynny i fod yn gyflenwr posibl yn benderfyniad a wnaed gan y Llywodraeth yn unig; mewn gwirionedd, fe'i cefnogwyd gan bwyllgor ymarfer cyffredinol Cymdeithas Feddygol Prydain eu hunain. Cytunodd grŵp cynrychioliadol o feddygon, o gofio bod EMIS wedi gwrthod cydymffurfio â'r tendr, na ddylent felly gael eu gwobrwyo mewn unrhyw fodd a'u caniatáu yn ôl i mewn i'r system. Ac yn anarferol—gan y cafwyd cwestiynau yn y Siambr ar y pryd gan bobl o fwy nag un blaid—ers hynny, nid oes cwynion sylweddol wedi'u gwneud ynglŷn â'r peth gan ein bod wedi darparu'r cymorth y dywedasom y byddai ar gael, ac yn gyffredinol, mae cymuned y meddygon teulu wedi derbyn ein bod wedi gwneud y dewis cywir wrth beidio â chaniatáu EMIS i mewn i'r system wedi iddynt wrthod cydymffurfio â manylion y tendr.

14:50

The chairman of the Royal College of General Practitioners, Dr Rebecca Payne, said at the time that she was very concerned about the potential impact of this on practices in north Wales, because 89 out of 118 practices were with EMIS. It's hard to see how we have the clinical staff in Wales to mitigate the potential problems that might arise. But going on from that to changing IT systems, obviously it has the potential to create all sorts of practical difficulties when it sometimes has to happen, of course, because existing systems become outdated or technology moves on. There are many people who think it will take three years before all patient records will have settled down on replacement systems, and patients need medical record integration between primary and acute settings, and current circumstances in north Wales are not producing this. So, can the Minister tell me what specific measures we're taking in north Wales to minimise both patient suffering and lost opportunity to deliver improved patient efficiency in this region?

Dywedodd cadeirydd Coleg Brenhinol yr Ymarferwyr Cyffredinol, Dr Rebecca Payne, ar y pryd ei bod yn bryderus iawn ynglŷn ag effaith bosibl hyn ar bractisau yng ngogledd Cymru, gan fod 89 o'r 118 practis gydag EMIS. Mae'n anodd gweld sut y mae gennym staff clinigol yng Nghymru i liniaru'r problemau posibl a allai godi. Ond gan symud ymlaen o hynny i newid systemau TG, mae'n amlwg y gallai hynny greu pob math o anawsterau ymarferol pan fo'n rhaid i hynny ddigwydd weithiau, wrth gwrs, gan fod systemau presennol yn dyddio neu'r dechnoleg yn datblygu. Mae llawer o bobl o'r farn y bydd yn cymryd tair blynedd cyn i'r holl gofnodion cleifion ddod i drefn ar systemau newydd, ac mae angen integreiddio cofnodion meddygol cleifion rhwng lleoliadau sylfaenol ac acíwt, ac nid yw'r amgylchiadau presennol yng ngogledd Cymru yn caniatáu hyn. Felly, a all y Gweinidog ddweud wrthyf pa gamau penodol rydych yn eu cymryd yng ngogledd Cymru i leihau dioddefaint cleifion a'r cyfleoedd sy'n cael eu colli i sicrhau gwell effeithlonrwydd ar gyfer cleifion yn y rhanbarth hwn?

I think the first point I'd make is that the now past chair of the Royal College of General Practitioners in Wales, Dr Payne, did raise concerns at the time, as did a number of other stakeholders, but, as I say, the representative body of general practitioners who are involved and engaged in actually assessing the responses to the tendering exercise agreed with and positively supported that choice. David Bailey is many things but he's certainly not a patsy for the Government, and he supported the choice that was made not to provide EMIS with an opportunity to try and be a supplier, having failed to deal with the tender.

On the broader point about people's access to records, it's not just within the health system; we've had a challenge of joining up records, say, within a pharmacy setting. That's what Choose Pharmacy is allowing us to do—so, a version of the GP record being available and to make entries into, but also doing more about making records available within that community pharmacy setting as well. But on access between the emergency ambulance service and between general practice, and indeed hospital practitioners as well, we've actually made real steps forward within the last few years here in Wales to do so. But there is always more to do, including the continued roll-out of the Welsh community care information system, which means that we can actually share information between health and social care.

Now, there are a range of parts of Wales where that has been rolled out and, in virtually every area where that's taken place, practitioners in health and social care recognise it's been an improvement. It means they spend less time on chasing information, and they believe that not only is their job better because it's less frustrating, but that they are providing better care for the citizen.

So, yes, there is more to do, and I accept there will be always other ideas about what we could do to improve, but this is not an area that is marginal. It is core business for health and care services, and I expect to answer more questions on this now and in the future.

Credaf mai'r pwynt cyntaf y buaswn yn ei wneud yw bod cyn-gadeirydd, bellach, Coleg Brenhinol yr Ymarferwyr Cyffredinol yng Nghymru, Dr Payne, wedi codi pryderon ar y pryd, fel y gwnaeth nifer o randdeiliaid eraill, ond fel y dywedaf, roedd corff cynrychioliadol y meddygon teulu sy'n ymwneud â'r gwaith o asesu'r ymatebion i'r ymarfer tendro yn cytuno â'r dewis hwnnw ac yn ei gefnogi. Mae David Bailey yn sawl peth, ond yn sicr, nid yw'n byped i'r Llywodraeth, ac fe gefnogodd y dewis a wnaed i beidio â rhoi cyfle i EMIS geisio bod yn gyflenwr, wedi iddynt fethu ymdrin â'r tendr.

O ran y pwynt ehangach ynglŷn â mynediad pobl at gofnodion, nid o fewn y system iechyd yn unig y mae hyn yn codi; rydym wedi wynebu her o ran cydgysylltu cofnodion, er enghraifft, o fewn lleoliad fferyllfa. Dyna mae Dewis Fferyllfa yn caniatáu inni ei wneud—felly, fersiwn o gofnod meddyg teulu i fod ar gael ac i allu ychwanegu ati, ond gwneud mwy mewn perthynas â sicrhau bod cofnodion ar gael o fewn lleoliad y fferyllfa gymunedol hefyd. Ond o ran mynediad rhwng y gwasanaeth ambiwlans brys a rhwng ymarfer cyffredinol, ac yn wir, ymarferwyr mewn ysbytai hefyd, rydym wedi gwneud cynnydd gwirioneddol dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf yma yng Nghymru tuag at wneud hynny. Ond mae mwy i'w wneud bob amser, gan gynnwys parhau i gyflwyno system wybodaeth gofal cymunedol Cymru, sy'n golygu y gallwn rannu gwybodaeth rhwng iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol.

Nawr, ceir sawl rhan o Gymru lle y mae hynny wedi'i gyflwyno, ac ym mhob ardal, bron â bod, lle y digwyddodd hynny, mae ymarferwyr ym maes iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn cydnabod ei fod wedi bod yn welliant. Mae'n golygu eu bod yn treulio llai o amser yn ceisio cael gafael ar wybodaeth, a chredant nid yn unig fod eu swydd yn well gan ei bod yn llai rhwystredig, ond eu bod yn darparu gwell gofal i'r dinesydd.

Felly, oes, mae mwy i'w wneud, ac rwy'n derbyn y bydd yna syniadau eraill bob amser ynglŷn â'r hyn y gallem ei wneud i wella, ond nid maes ymylol mohono. Mae'n waith craidd i wasanaethau iechyd a gofal, ac rwy'n disgwyl y byddaf yn ateb rhagor o gwestiynau ar hyn yn awr ac yn y dyfodol.

Perfformiad Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg
The Performance of Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University Local Health Board

3. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am berfformiad Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg? OAQ53131

3. Will the Minister make a statement on the performance of Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University Health Board? OAQ53131

Thank you for the question. Performance is improving across a number of key areas. Progress has been made in cancer waits, diagnostics and referral-to-treatment times. ABMU has received £8.3 million out of a performance fund that I created for this financial year. We expect to see further improvements by the end of March 2019.

Diolch am eich cwestiwn. Mae perfformiad yn gwella ar draws nifer o feysydd allweddol. Mae cynnydd wedi'i wneud o ran diagnosteg, amseroedd rhwng atgyfeirio a thriniaeth, ac amseroedd aros am driniaethau canser. Mae Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg wedi derbyn £8.3 miliwn o gronfa berfformiad a grëwyd gennyf ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol hon. Rydym yn disgwyl gweld gwelliannau pellach erbyn diwedd mis Mawrth 2019.

Minister, it's highly concerning for patients in south-west Wales that ABMU health board has been under the Welsh Government's targeted intervention status since September 2016. Concerns remain around specific elements of performance that are failing to be met, and people understandably want to see improvements. As the health board is now in the process of completing its organisational strategy, clinical services plan and the three-year integrated plan 2019-22, can you update the Chamber on recent discussions that your officials have had with ABMU health board and when you would expect to make a decision on the sign-off of the three-year integrated plan?

Weinidog, mae'n achos cryn bryder i gleifion yn ne-orllewin Cymru fod bwrdd iechyd Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg wedi bod yn destun ymyrraeth wedi’i thargedu Llywodraeth Cymru ers mis Medi 2016. Mae pryderon yn parhau ynghylch elfennau penodol o berfformiad nad ydynt yn cael eu bodloni, ac yn ddealladwy, mae pobl am weld gwelliannau. Gan fod y bwrdd iechyd wrthi'n cwblhau eu strategaeth sefydliadol, eu cynllun gwasanaethau clinigol a'u cynllun integredig tair blynedd ar gyfer 2019-22, a allwch roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Siambr ynglŷn â'r trafodaethau diweddar a gafodd eich swyddogion gyda bwrdd iechyd Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg, a phryd y byddech yn disgwyl gwneud penderfyniad ynglŷn â chymeradwyo'r cynllun integredig tair blynedd?

Well, the first point is that I'd need to see that integrated plan delivered and provided. There is a regular source of not just correspondence, but direct meetings between officials within the Government and the health board, and actually the improvement that I refer to is, I think, a positive in terms of the job that Tracy Myhill, the chief executive, and her team are doing with the board. There is real improvement and it's being sustained. The challenge will be whether they're able to give enough confidence—not just their plan on paper, but the confidence they will be able to deliver. That is part of the point. There are many people who write great-looking plans in very many aspects of life, but we need confidence they can actually deliver against that. They may be in a position to have an approved three-year integrated plan at the start of the next financial year. Even if they don't, I am confident that this health board will continue to make strides forward over the next year and I believe that you and other residents of the health board area can have greater confidence about the ability of the board to deliver against its plans and its financial means, but also, of course, delivering high-quality care for people across the region.

Wel, y pwynt cyntaf yw y byddai angen imi weld y cynllun integredig hwnnw'n cael ei gyflwyno a'i ddarparu. Ceir ffynhonnell reolaidd, nid yn unig o ohebiaeth, ond o gyfarfodydd uniongyrchol rhwng swyddogion o fewn y Llywodraeth a'r bwrdd iechyd, ac mewn gwirionedd, credaf fod y gwelliant y cyfeiriaf ato yn rhywbeth cadarnhaol o ran y gwaith y mae Tracy Myhill, y prif weithredwr, a'i thîm yn ei wneud gyda'r bwrdd. Mae yno welliant gwirioneddol, ac mae'n cael ei gynnal. Yr her fydd i ba raddau y gallant roi digon o hyder—nid yn unig eu cynllun ar bapur, ond yr hyder y byddant yn gallu ei ddarparu. Mae hynny'n rhan o'r pwynt. Ceir llawer o bobl sy'n ysgrifennu cynlluniau sy'n edrych yn wych mewn sawl agwedd ar fywyd, ond mae arnom angen hyder y gallant gyflawni yn erbyn hynny. Gallant fod mewn sefyllfa i gael cynllun integredig tair blynedd wedi'i gymeradwyo erbyn dechrau'r flwyddyn ariannol nesaf. Hyd yn oed os nad ydynt yn llwyddo i wneud hynny, rwy'n hyderus y bydd y bwrdd iechyd hwn yn parhau i wneud cynnydd dros y flwyddyn nesaf, a chredaf y gallwch chi a thrigolion eraill ardal y bwrdd iechyd fod â mwy o hyder ynghylch gallu'r bwrdd i gyflawni yn erbyn ei gynlluniau a'i fodd ariannol, ond hefyd, wrth gwrs, i ddarparu gofal o ansawdd uchel i bobl ledled y rhanbarth.

14:55

Could I turn to the performance of ABMU in respect of one of their prime assets, which is Maesteg Community Hospital? There's a plaque in the hospital with my name on it; it celebrated its hundredth anniversary only a few years ago. I intend, with the sustenance of our national health service and breakthroughs and innovation in health, to be there when it celebrates its second hundredth year as well. I'm going to be as old as Job.

But, can I say, there was a massive, packed-out meeting on 14 November in Maesteg town hall. It was very well attended, very passionate, and eloquent speeches were made by local people in the consultation on the closure of the Maesteg Community Hospital day unit. Now, alongside that closure of that day unit and the proposal to transfer it to Bridgend Princess of Wales, there is also enhancement of services being proposed, including a doppler service, a leg unit, alongside the wound clinic and other services that are there now, and including the step-down ward that they currently have, with beds in the ward there.

Now, what I'm seeking from ABMU, but also as it transfers to Cwm Taf, imminently, is that the long-term future of Maesteg Community Hospital is guaranteed. It is an essential part of the 'A Healthier Wales' approach in terms of services closer to the community. I will shortly be meeting with the chair of Cwm Taf to make sure that this isn't the case, but could I ask the Minister, please, in your meetings both with ABMU chair and chief executive and with Cwm Taf chair and chief executive to make that same point: that no matter the reconfiguration, the services here should be enhanced in line with 'A Healthier Wales', and the future of Maesteg Community Hospital should be written in stone outside, if not next to the plaque with my name on it?

A gaf fi droi at berfformiad Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg mewn perthynas ag un o'u prif asedau, sef Ysbyty Cymunedol Maesteg? Mae plac yn yr ysbyty gyda fy enw arno; fe ddathlodd ei ganmlwyddiant ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl. Gyda chynhaliaeth ein gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol a datblygiadau allweddol ac arloesedd ym maes iechyd, rwy'n bwriadu bod yno pan fydd yn dathlu ei ddeucanmlwyddiant hefyd. Rwy'n mynd i fod mor hen â Job.

Ond a gaf fi ddweud, cafwyd cyfarfod enfawr a gorlawn ar 14 Tachwedd yn neuadd y dref ym Maesteg. Roedd llawer iawn o bobl yn bresennol, a chafwyd areithiau angerddol a huawdl iawn gan bobl leol yn yr ymgynghoriad ar gau uned ddydd Ysbyty Cymunedol Maesteg. Nawr, ochr yn ochr â chau'r uned ddydd honno a'r cynnig i'w throsglwyddo i Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr, mae cynnig hefyd i wella gwasanaethau, gan gynnwys gwasanaeth doppler, uned y goes, ochr yn ochr â'r clinig clwyfau a gwasanaethau eraill sydd yno eisoes, gan gynnwys y ward cam-i-lawr sydd ganddynt ar hyn o bryd, gyda gwelyau yn y ward yno.

Nawr, yr hyn yr hoffwn ei gael gan Brifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg, ond hefyd wrth iddo drosglwyddo i Gwm Taf cyn bo hir, yw gwarant ynglŷn â dyfodol hirdymor Ysbyty Cymunedol Maesteg. Mae'n rhan hanfodol o ymagwedd 'Cymru Iachach' o ran sicrhau bod gwasanaethau'n agosach at y gymuned. Byddaf yn cyfarfod cyn bo hir â chadeirydd Cwm Taf i sicrhau nad yw hyn yn wir, ond a gaf fi ofyn i'r Gweinidog i wneud yr un pwynt, os gwelwch yn dda, yn eich cyfarfodydd gyda chadeirydd a phrif weithredwr Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg a chadeirydd a phrif weithredwr Cwm Taf: er gwaethaf yr ad-drefnu, y dylid gwella'r gwasanaethau yma yn unol â 'Cymru Iachach', a dylid naddu dyfodol Ysbyty Cymunedol Maesteg ar garreg y tu allan, os nad ger y plac gyda fy enw arno?

Well, I applaud the Member's ambition to be around for the second centenary. I'm not sure I'd make such a pledge or ambitious statement myself.

I recognise the points the Member makes and about services that are changing, which is, obviously, a cause for concern for the local population as services move, and at the same time seeing, on the other hand, services move into that setting as well. But that is part of the challenge we've set out in 'A Healthier Wales'—how we move around some services to be more concentrated in fewer settings, and at the same time to have more services then going out into community settings to be delivered more closely to home.  So, I think there's nothing inconsistent with what you've set out.

I don't think that the boundary change should have any difference in terms of the longer term future of the hospital, and I would be happy to make sure that, when I do meet Cwm Taf health board, as I'm sure to in the near future, I raise the fact that you've got those concerns and you'll be wanting an answer direct from the health board too.

Wel, rwy'n cymeradwyo uchelgais yr Aelod i fod o gwmpas ar gyfer y deucanmlwyddiant. Nid wyf yn siŵr y buaswn yn gwneud addewid neu ddatganiad mor uchelgeisiol fy hun.

Rwy'n cydnabod y pwyntiau y mae'r Aelod yn eu gwneud ac ynglŷn â gwasanaethau sy'n newid, sy'n amlwg yn achos pryder i'r boblogaeth leol wrth i wasanaethau symud, ac ar yr un pryd, maent yn gweld gwasanaethau, ar y llaw arall, yn symud i'r lleoliad hwnnw hefyd. Ond dyna ran o'r her rydym wedi'i nodi yn 'Cymru Iachach'—sut rydym yn symud rhai gwasanaethau o gwmpas er mwyn eu crynhoi mewn llai o leoliadau, a sicrhau ar yr un pryd, fod mwy o wasanaethau'n symud i leoliadau cymunedol er mwyn eu darparu yn agosach at adref. Felly, ni chredaf fod unrhyw beth yn anghyson o ran yr hyn rydych wedi'i nodi.

Ni chredaf y dylai newid y ffin wneud unrhyw wahaniaeth o ran dyfodol mwy hirdymor yr ysbyty, ac rwy'n fwy na pharod i sicrhau, pan fyddaf yn cyfarfod â bwrdd iechyd Cwm Taf, fel rwy'n siŵr o wneud yn y dyfodol agos, fy mod yn codi'r ffaith bod gennych y pryderon hynny ac y byddwch yn disgwyl ateb uniongyrchol gan y bwrdd iechyd hefyd.

Y Targed Amser Aros o Bedair Awr ar Gyfer Gofal Brys
The Four-hour Emergency Waiting Time Target

4. Pryd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n disgwyl i ysbytai gyrraedd y targed amser aros o bedair awr ar gyfer gofal brys? OAQ53134

4. When does the Welsh Government expect hospitals to meet the four-hour emergency waiting time target? OAQ53134

I expect local health boards to plan effectively to deliver safe, timely and high-quality health and care services to meet the needs of the communities that they serve.

Rwy'n disgwyl i fyrddau iechyd lleol gynllunio'n effeithiol i ddarparu gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal diogel, amserol ac o safon uchel i ddiwallu anghenion y cymunedau y maent yn eu gwasanaethu.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. You'll be aware that, in north Wales, there are particular problems in each of the three main district general hospitals, all of which have been failing to meet the emergency waiting time targets for some time, including at the hospital that serves my constituents, which is Glan Clwyd Hospital in Bodelwyddan.

The situation appears to have been deteriorating and, in November, the figures were much worse than they were three years ago, in November 2015. This, of course, is a health board that is in special measures. Your responsibility is to improve the outcomes for patients as a result of your intervention in that health board, and yet the situation is getting worse. Can you explain to my residents and those in other places in north Wales why, in a health board that is currently in special measures, the situation is getting worse in terms of performance and not getting better? 

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Fe fyddwch yn gwybod bod problemau arbennig yng ngogledd Cymru, yn y tri phrif ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth, gyda phob un ohonynt wedi methu cyrraedd y targed amser aros ar gyfer gofal brys ers peth amser, gan gynnwys yr ysbyty sy'n gwasanaethu fy etholwyr, sef Ysbyty Glan Clwyd ym Modelwyddan.

Ymddengys bod y sefyllfa wedi bod yn gwaethygu, ac ym mis Tachwedd, roedd y ffigurau'n waeth o lawer nag yr oeddent dair blynedd yn ôl, ym mis Tachwedd 2015. Mae hwn, wrth gwrs, yn fwrdd iechyd sy'n destun mesurau arbennig. Eich cyfrifoldeb chi yw gwella'r canlyniadau ar gyfer cleifion o ganlyniad i'ch ymyrraeth yn y bwrdd iechyd hwnnw, ac eto, mae'r sefyllfa'n gwaethygu. A allwch egluro i fy nhrigolion a'r rheini mewn mannau eraill yng ngogledd Cymru pam, mewn bwrdd iechyd sy'n destun mesurau arbennig ar hyn o bryd, fod y sefyllfa'n gwaethygu o ran perfformiad yn hytrach na gwella?

I have real concerns about the four-hour figures from each of the three centres in north Wales, but I've never tried to hide from those concerns. They're absolutely part of the conversations I've had with the new chair about the need to see improvement. They have got a 90-day improvement plan, but the point that I have made is, 'It's fine to have a plan, but you obviously need to be able to deliver on it and to deliver improvement, and to take the staff with you'. The worst thing that we could do would be simply to say, 'People need to try and work harder' and that's it. Actually, there are changes about how the services are organised, about getting people to the right place within our heath and care system, and having the right capacity within the system as well. It's instructed to me that there's something here about supporting good clinical leadership, because if you look across north Wales, then, at present, the area, certainly in the recent past, that has had the greatest physical challenges is Ysbyty Gwynedd. Yet, actually, often, their performance is better than the other two sites.

So, it isn't simply about the physical settings, but sometimes the physical setting does matter. It is about having the right clinicians in the right place and about leadership and actually about persuading members of the public to try and use different points in the system at the right point in time. But I expect that you and other Members from every party will continue to not just question me but to ask again—once we've had a 90-day plan, I expect to come back and have questions about that and what difference it has made. I do think the national arrangements we put in place with the national clinical lead, with Jo Mower, have been helpful, because, of course, she has the credibility of still being a serving clinician in an emergency department. So, I'm cautiously optimistic that we'll see improvement, if not in the busy time of winter, because that really is a hostage to fortune, but I expect over the next year that your constituents and others can have a better experience with shorter waits within emergency departments. But this is a longer term challenge and not something I'll be able to resolve with a click of my fingers, as much as I would like to be able to do so. 

Mae gennyf bryderon gwirioneddol ynghylch y ffigurau pedair awr ym mhob un o'r tair canolfan yng ngogledd Cymru, ond nid wyf erioed wedi ceisio cuddio rhag y pryderon hynny. Maent yn bendant yn rhan o'r trafodaethau rwyf wedi eu cael gyda'r cadeirydd newydd ynglŷn â'r angen i weld gwelliant. Mae ganddynt gynllun gwella 90 diwrnod, ond y pwynt rwyf wedi'i wneud yw, 'Mae'n iawn cael cynllun, ond yn amlwg, dylech allu ei gyflawni a sicrhau gwelliant, a mynd â'r staff gyda chi'. Y peth gwaethaf y gallem ei wneud fyddai dweud, 'Mae angen i bobl geisio gweithio'n galetach' a dyna ni. Mewn gwirionedd, mae yna newidiadau o ran sut y trefnir y gwasanaethau, sut i sicrhau bod pobl yn mynd i'r lle iawn yn ein system iechyd a gofal, a sut i sicrhau bod capasiti digonol ar gael yn y system hefyd. Dywedir wrthyf fod rhywbeth yma ynghylch cefnogi arweinyddiaeth glinigol dda, oherwydd os edrychwch ar draws gogledd Cymru, ar hyn o bryd, yr ardal sydd wedi wynebu'r heriau ffisegol mwyaf, yn sicr yn y gorffennol diweddar, yw Ysbyty Gwynedd. Serch hynny, mae eu perfformiad yn well na'r ddau safle arall yn aml.

Felly, nid yw'n ymwneud â'r lleoliadau ffisegol yn unig, ond weithiau, mae'r lleoliad ffisegol yn ffactor. Mae'n ymwneud â sicrhau bod y clinigwyr cywir yn y lleoedd cywir, ag arweinyddiaeth, ac â pherswadio aelodau o'r cyhoedd i geisio defnyddio pwyntiau gwahanol yn y system ar yr adeg iawn. Ond rwy'n disgwyl y byddwch chi ac Aelodau eraill o bob plaid nid yn unig yn parhau i fy holi ond yn gofyn eto—pan fyddwn wedi cael cynllun 90 diwrnod, rwy'n disgwyl dod yn ôl yma i ateb cwestiynau ynglŷn â hynny a pha wahaniaeth y mae wedi'i wneud. Credaf fod y trefniadau cenedlaethol a roesom ar waith gyda'r arweinydd clinigol cenedlaethol, Jo Mower, wedi bod yn ddefnyddiol, oherwydd, wrth gwrs, mae'n ennyn hyder am ei bod yn dal i fod yn glinigydd gweithredol mewn adran achosion brys. Felly, rwy'n ochelgar obeithiol y byddwn yn gweld gwelliant, os nad dros gyfnod prysur y gaeaf, gan fod y cyfnod hwnnw yn ddibynnol iawn ar ffawd, ond rwy'n disgwyl dros y flwyddyn nesaf y gall eich etholwyr ac eraill gael gwell profiad gydag amseroedd aros byrrach mewn adrannau argyfwng. Ond mae hon yn her fwy hirdymor ac nid yw'n rhywbeth y gallaf ei ddatrys drwy glicio fy mysedd, er cymaint y carwn allu gwneud hynny.

15:00

Minister, I'll look at the two aspects of the four hours—that's the beginning and the end of the four-hour period. At the beginning, clearly, we can ask people to choose better with the prudent health approach and look at using different facilities such as minor injuries units across south Wales, and particularly in my area the fantastic services at Neath Port Talbot Hospital. I want to encourage more people to take up that opportunity. But also, at the other side of the four hours is the transfer of patients into hospitals. Last year, ABMU held a consultation on bed closures. It was a skewed—in my opinion—consultation, because the questions being asked were more towards the answers they wanted. But in future consultations, will you ensure that health boards have to put the question as to how it impacts upon accident and emergency services, because the removal of beds means fewer opportunities for patients to be transferred from the A&E into a bed in the hospital?

Weinidog, rwyf am edrych ar ddwy agwedd ar y pedair awr—sef dechrau a diwedd y cyfnod o bedair awr. Ar y dechrau, yn amlwg, gallwn ofyn i bobl ddewis yn well gyda'r dull iechyd darbodus ac edrych ar ddefnyddio cyfleusterau gwahanol megis unedau mân anafiadau ar draws de Cymru, ac yn enwedig y gwasanaethau gwych yn Ysbyty Castell-nedd Port Talbot yn fy ardal i. Rwyf am annog mwy o bobl i fanteisio ar y cyfle hwnnw. Ond hefyd, ar yr ochr arall i'r pedair awr, mae'r gwaith o drosglwyddo cleifion i ysbytai. Y llynedd, cynhaliodd Prifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg ymgynghoriad ar gau gwelyau. Roedd yn ymgynghoriad â gogwydd iddo—yn fy marn i—oherwydd roedd y cwestiynau a gafodd eu gofyn yn tueddu mwy tuag at yr atebion roeddent eu heisiau. Ond mewn ymgynghoriadau yn y dyfodol, a wnewch chi sicrhau bod yn rhaid i fyrddau iechyd ofyn cwestiwn ynglŷn â sut y mae'n effeithio ar wasanaethau damweiniau ac achosion brys, oherwydd mae cael gwared ar welyau yn golygu llai o gyfleoedd i drosglwyddo cleifion o'r adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys i wely yn yr ysbyty?

There are two broad points that I'd make in response to the Member. The first is that I completely agree with him—I think that's the best use of the whole system. Neath Port Talbot Hospital is a good example of a minor injuries unit where people sometimes underestimate the range of services that are available. There's often easier transport than going to either the Princess of Wales or indeed to Morriston, and there is often a much shorter wait as well. Actually, making available publicly some of the tracker times about how fast you're likely to be seen has been helpful in diverting people to those areas. There's also, of course, the job of the ambulance service to work together with the health board and make sure they take people to the appropriate setting. 

On your second point about beds across the system, there is a challenge here, and I know you've set out both in private and in this place your view on the previous exercise undertaken by the health board, but it's actually about capacity across the whole system. Because what's been really interesting for me in meeting with lots of emergency department clinicians is they do have a view on capacity within the hospital system, but they actually have a view about flow within the hospital part of the system and in and out of the hospital setting itself as well. I think it's really important to set out not just what happens with a number of the beds within one part of our health and care system, but actually to be sure that it's a joint plan between health and social care about how capacity is going to be met. Because often the right place to treat someone is not in a hospital bed—it's often somewhere else, but you need to plan for that and not simply talk about it. When reducing capacity in one part, if you haven't then also planned to increase and improve capacity in another part of our wider health and care system—. That is a conversation I've had this morning with a range of local authority members. 

Mae dau bwynt cyffredinol yr hoffwn eu gwneud mewn ymateb i'r Aelod. Y cyntaf yw fy mod yn cytuno'n llwyr ag ef—credaf mai dyna yw'r defnydd gorau o'r system gyfan. Mae ysbyty Castell-nedd Port Talbot yn enghraifft dda o uned mân anafiadau lle y mae pobl weithiau'n tanbrisio'r ystod o wasanaethau sydd ar gael. Mae'n aml yn haws teithio yno na theithio i Ysbyty Tywysoges Cymru neu, yn wir, i Dreforys, ac mae'r amser aros yn aml yn llawer byrrach hefyd. Mewn gwirionedd, mae cyhoeddi rhai o'r amseroedd aros sy'n dangos pa mor gyflym rydych yn debygol o gael eich gweld wedi helpu i gyfeirio pobl i'r mannau hynny. Yn ogystal â hynny, wrth gwrs, mae gwaith y gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn gweithio gyda'r bwrdd iechyd i sicrhau eu bod yn mynd â phobl i'r lleoliad priodol.

Ar eich ail bwynt ynglŷn â gwelyau ar draws y system, mae yna her yma, a gwn eich bod wedi nodi eich barn, yn breifat ac yn y lle hwn, ar yr ymarfer blaenorol a gynhaliwyd gan y bwrdd iechyd, ond mae'n ymwneud â chapasiti ar draws y system gyfan mewn gwirionedd. Oherwydd yr hyn sydd wedi bod yn ddiddorol iawn i mi, wrth gyfarfod â llawer o glinigwyr adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys, yw'r ffaith bod ganddynt farn ar gapasiti o fewn system yr ysbyty, a barn hefyd mewn gwirionedd ar lif cleifion o fewn rhan yr ysbyty o'r system ac i mewn ac allan o leoliad yr ysbyty ei hun hefyd. Credaf ei bod yn wirioneddol bwysig nodi nid yn unig yr hyn sy'n digwydd gyda nifer o'r gwelyau mewn un rhan o'n system iechyd a gofal, ond i sicrhau hefyd ei fod yn gynllun ar y cyd rhwng iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol o ran sut i ddiwallu capasiti. Oherwydd, yn aml, nid gwely ysbyty yw'r man cywir ar gyfer trin claf—dylent gael eu trin yn rhywle arall yn aml, ond mae angen i chi gynllunio ar gyfer hynny yn hytrach na siarad am y peth yn unig. Wrth leihau capasiti mewn un rhan, os nad ydych wedi cynllunio hefyd i gynyddu a gwella capasiti mewn rhan arall o'n system iechyd a gofal ehangach—. Mae honno'n sgwrs a gefais y bore yma gydag amryw o aelodau awdurdodau lleol.

Gwella Gwasanaethau Iechyd yn Sir Benfro
Improving Health Services in Pembrokeshire

5. Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i wella gwasanaethau iechyd yn Sir Benfro? OAQ53115

5. What is the Welsh Government doing to improve health services in Pembrokeshire? OAQ53115

Thank you for the question. We have a wide range of improvement activity that we expect the people of Pembrokeshire to benefit from. In addition to service-specific improvements, we expect Pembrokeshire to benefit from the transformation fund and our long-term plan for health and social care, 'A Healthier Wales'.

Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn. Mae gennym amrywiaeth eang o weithgarwch gwella rydym yn disgwyl i bobl Sir Benfro elwa ohono. Yn ogystal â gwelliannau i wasanaethau penodol, rydym yn disgwyl i Sir Benfro elwa o'r gronfa drawsnewid a'n cynllun hirdymor ar gyfer iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol, 'Cymru Iachach'.

Minister, one way of improving health services in Pembrokeshire, and indeed throughout Wales, is to support my autism Bill next week and allow it to go forward to Stage 2 of the legislative process. I appreciate that the Government is bringing forward a code of practice but my proposed Bill is not in competition with some of the measures that the Government have introduced or are introducing. It looks to build on some of that good work. In the circumstances, will you therefore consider working with me to ensure that the Bill can go forward next week for further scrutiny? Because I genuinely believe that passing this legislation will improve health services for many people in my constituency, and, indeed, for thousands of people across the whole of Wales. 

Weinidog, un ffordd o wella gwasanaethau iechyd yn Sir Benfro, ac yn wir ledled Cymru, yw cefnogi fy Mil awtistiaeth yr wythnos nesaf a chaniatáu iddo symud ymlaen i gam 2 o'r broses ddeddfwriaethol. Rwy'n derbyn bod y Llywodraeth yn cyflwyno cod ymarfer, ond nid yw fy Mil arfaethedig yn cystadlu â rhai o'r mesurau y mae'r Llywodraeth wedi'u cyflwyno neu'n bwriadu eu cyflwyno. Mae'n bwriadu adeiladu ar rywfaint o'r gwaith da hwnnw. O dan yr amgylchiadau hynny, a wnewch chi ystyried gweithio gyda mi i sicrhau y gall y Bil symud ymlaen yr wythnos nesaf i'w graffu ymhellach? Oherwydd rwy'n credu'n ddiffuant y bydd pasio'r ddeddfwriaeth hon yn gwella gwasanaethau iechyd i lawer o bobl yn fy etholaeth i, ac yn wir i filoedd o bobl ledled Cymru gyfan.

I recognise that the Member does genuinely wish to improve services for autistic people, and more than that to improve people's lived experience—there's no dispute between us on that. The challenge is whether or not the Bill that you propose will actually deliver that—that's not an area that we agree on. We'll have plenty of time to talk about that next week, and, indeed, to consider the reports of a variety of committees that have considered that and the views of a range of stakeholders.

So, I'll happily leave that conversation until next week, when we will have it in detail. Of course, you're aware that we've met several times during the passage of the Bill to date to discuss these matters. I'm sure that, should the Bill proceed, we'll continue to talk.

Rwy'n cydnabod bod yr Aelod o ddifrif yn dymuno gwella gwasanaethau ar gyfer pobl awtistig, ac yn fwy na hynny, yn dymuno gwella profiad bywyd pobl—nid oes unrhyw anghytundeb rhyngom ar hynny. Yr her yw i ba raddau y bydd y Bil rydych yn ei gynnig yn cyflawni hynny—nid ydym yn cytuno ar hynny. Bydd gennym ddigon o amser i sôn am hynny yr wythnos nesaf, ac yn wir, i ystyried adroddiadau gan amryw o bwyllgorau sydd wedi ystyried hynny a barn ystod o randdeiliaid.

Felly, rwy'n hapus i adael y sgwrs honno tan yr wythnos nesaf, pan fyddwn yn trafod y mater yn fanwl. Wrth gwrs, rydych yn gwybod ein bod wedi cyfarfod sawl gwaith yn ystod hynt y Bil hyd yn hyn i drafod y materion hyn. Os bydd y Bil yn symud ymlaen, rwy'n siŵr y byddwn yn parhau i siarad.

15:05
Atal HIV
HIV Prevention

6. A wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru ddarparu'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y camau y mae'n eu cymryd mewn perthynas ag atal HIV? OAQ53146

6. Will the Welsh Government provide an update on the action it is taking in relation to HIV prevention? OAQ53146

Thank you for the question. A number of projects are under way to improve access to testing, including the provision of self-sampling HIV tests and a pilot for online testing. Pre-exposure prophylaxis is providing protection for those with lifestyle risks. These measures, supported by effective medical care, mean we are continually reducing the risk of HIV infection.

Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn. Mae nifer o brosiectau ar y gweill i wella mynediad at brofion, gan gynnwys darparu profion hunan-samplu HIV a chynllun peilot ar gyfer profi ar-lein. Mae proffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad yn darparu amddiffyniad i'r rheini sy'n wynebu risgiau'n gysylltiedig â'u ffordd o fyw. Mae'r mesurau hyn, wedi’u cefnogi gan ofal meddygol effeithiol, yn golygu ein bod yn parhau i leihau'r risg o heintiad HIV.

Thank you, Minister. I've been closely following the encouraging response to the introduction of PrEP last July. I'm really impressed by the large numbers already benefiting from this preventative treatment. The introduction of a national approach to PrEP and HIV prevention that is being taken here in Wales by the Welsh Labour Government shows a clear commitment to these issues. What plans are in place to build on any early findings? Would you be able to provide an update on further results when these become available in due course?

Diolch i chi, Weinidog. Rwyf wedi bod yn dilyn yr ymateb calonogol i gyflwyno'r proffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad fis Gorffennaf diwethaf yn agos iawn. Mae'r nifer fawr sydd eisoes yn elwa o'r driniaeth ataliol hon wedi gwneud argraff fawr arnaf mewn gwirionedd. Mae gwaith Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru ar gyflwyno dull cenedlaethol i atal HIV a darparu proffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad yng Nghymru yn dangos ymrwymiad clir i'r materion hyn. Pa gynlluniau sydd ar waith i adeiladu ar unrhyw ganfyddiadau cynnar? A fyddech yn gallu rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ar ganlyniadau pellach pan ddaw'r rhain ar gael maes o law?

Yes, I'm very pleased and proud of the national approach that we've chosen to take here in Wales—a genuinely national approach based on clinical need being the criteria for access to PrEP. That's in contrast to the approach taken in both Northern Ireland and England, where there isn't a national approach and, of course, the Terrence Higgins Trust and others are fundraising to be able to make the funds available for people to actually be able to use PrEP. That isn't a challenge we have here. 

We now have, from the end of September, 697 people in Wales who've been prescribed PrEP, and 386 are currently taking the preventative treatment. There have been no new cases of HIV within that group of people, and that is a real success story for all of us.

We do, though, recognise that about one in four people who are potentially eligible for PrEP don't come back for follow-up and don't actually take it up. So, part of our challenge, in research that is ongoing, is both to properly understand the impact of providing PrEP and to make sure that we continue to see that reduction in HIV, but also to try to understand why some people don't access PrEP when it is potentially available.

There is a range of research, including funding that we provided to Cardiff University—£400,000 of funding—to carry out research into the behaviours of those who choose to take PrEP, because we do recognise that there is a high incidence of sexually transmitted infections being acquired by people who are taking PrEP, so it's actually getting to the right sort of cohort of people.

I will, of course, though, in terms of your final point, happily update this place when we do have the results of either further incidents of the numbers of use, but, in particular, the research trials that we are already supporting.

Ie, rwy'n falch iawn o'r dull cenedlaethol rydym wedi dewis ei fabwysiadu yma yng Nghymru—dull gwirioneddol genedlaethol sy'n seiliedig ar sicrhau mai angen clinigol yw'r maen prawf ar gyfer mynediad at broffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad. Mae hynny'n gwrthgyferbynnu â'r dull a fabwysiadwyd yng Ngogledd Iwerddon a Lloegr, lle nad oes dull cenedlaethol o weithredu ac wrth gwrs, mae Ymddiriedolaeth Terrence Higgins ac eraill yn codi arian i sicrhau bod arian ar gael i bobl ddefnyddio proffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad. Nid yw honno'n her sy'n ein hwynebu ni yma.

Ers diwedd mis Medi, mae proffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad wedi'i bresgripsiynu ar gyfer 697 o bobl yng Nghymru, ac mae 386 yn cael triniaeth ataliol. Nid oes unrhyw achosion newydd o HIV wedi bod o fewn y grŵp hwnnw o bobl, ac mae hynny'n arwydd go iawn o lwyddiant i bob un ohonom.

Er hynny, rydym yn cydnabod nad yw oddeutu un o bob pedwar o bobl a allai fod yn gymwys ar gyfer proffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad yn dod yn ôl am apwyntiad dilynol nac yn manteisio arno. Felly, rhan o'r her sy'n ein hwynebu, mewn gwaith ymchwil sy'n mynd rhagddo, yw deall yn iawn beth yw effaith darparu proffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad a sicrhau ein bod yn parhau i weld y gostyngiad o ran HIV, a cheisio deall hefyd pam nad yw rhai pobl yn manteisio ar broffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad pan allai fod ar gael.

Ceir llawer o ymchwil, gan gynnwys cyllid a ddarparwyd gennym i Brifysgol Caerdydd—£400,000 o gyllid—i gyflawni ymchwil i ymddygiad y rhai sy'n dewis manteisio ar broffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad, oherwydd rydym yn cydnabod bod nifer uchel o achosion o heintiau a drosglwyddir yn rhywiol ymhlith pobl sy'n manteisio ar broffylacsis cyn-gysylltiad, felly mae'n ymwneud â chyrraedd y garfan iawn o bobl mewn gwirionedd.

Ond o ran eich pwynt olaf, wrth gwrs, byddaf yn hapus i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r lle hwn pan fydd gennym ganlyniadau o ran y niferoedd pellach sy'n dewis manteisio arno, ac yn benodol, canlyniadau'r treialon ymchwil rydym eisoes yn eu cefnogi.

Ysbyty Athrofaol y Grange
Grange University Hospital

7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y gwaith o adeiladu a chynllunio ar gyfer Ysbyty Athrofaol y Grange? OAQ53138

7. Will the Minister provide an update on the construction and planning of the Grange University Hospital? OAQ53138

I am happy to confirm that construction on the Grange hospital site commenced on 30 October 2017. It is on schedule and on budget, and due to open in the spring of 2021.

Rwy'n falch o gadarnhau bod y gwaith adeiladu ar safle ysbyty'r Grange wedi cychwyn ar 30 Hydref 2017. Mae'r gwaith ar amser ac o fewn y gyllideb, a disgwylir y bydd yn agor yn ystod gwanwyn 2021.

What proportion of the staff at the hospital would the Minister expect to want to live in Cwmbran and the locality of the hospital? Does he consider that sufficient housing is being built locally to satisfy that demand?

Pa gyfran o staff yr ysbyty y mae'r Gweinidog yn ei ragweld fydd eisiau byw yng Nghwmbrân ac yn nghyffiniau'r ysbyty? A yw'n ystyried bod digon o dai yn cael eu hadeiladu'n lleol i fodloni'r galw hwnnw?

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (Ann Jones) i’r Gadair.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

I couldn't forecast for him the level of demand that may come from people who have yet to make choices about where they do or don't wish to live. Of course, the overwhelming majority of staff who will work at the Grange are already within NHS Wales now. A number of people travel to work over relatively significant distances in addition to those who choose to live within a much shorter period of time of wherever their main site of employment is.

I do expect that conversation to continue with the local authority about housing need, to make sure that they have plans in place to make sure they meet that need in the future. But I think we can look forward to a very positive future for the Grange and the economic impact it will have on the local area, indeed both in the constituency of your colleague Nick Ramsay, and, of course, the constituency of my colleague the Member for Torfaen.

Ni allaf ragweld lefel y galw gan bobl nad ydynt eto wedi penderfynu lle y maent eisiau byw neu lle nad ydynt eisiau byw. Wrth gwrs, mae'r mwyafrif llethol o staff a fydd yn gweithio yn y Grange eisoes yn gweithio o fewn GIG Cymru. Mae yna nifer o bobl sy'n teithio pellteroedd cymharol sylweddol i'r gwaith, yn ogystal â'r rheini sy'n dewis byw o fewn amser teithio cryn dipyn yn llai i brif safle eu gwaith.

Rwy'n disgwyl y bydd y sgwrs honno am yr angen am dai yn parhau gyda'r awdurdod lleol, i wneud yn siŵr fod ganddynt gynlluniau ar waith i sicrhau eu bod yn bodloni'r angen hwnnw yn y dyfodol. Ond credaf y gallwn edrych ymlaen at ddyfodol cadarnhaol iawn i'r Grange a'r effaith economaidd y bydd yn ei chael ar yr ardal leol, yn etholaeth eich cyd-Aelod, Nick Ramsay, yn wir, ac wrth gwrs, etholaeth fy nghyd-Aelod, yr Aelod dros Dorfaen.

Gwasanaethau Fasgiwlaidd yn Ysbyty Gwynedd
Vascular Services in Ysbyty Gwynedd

8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am wasanaethau fasgiwlaidd yn Ysbyty Gwynedd? OAQ53125

8. Will the Minister make a statement on vascular services in Ysbyty Gwynedd? OAQ53125

Thank you for the question. Betsi Cadwaladr university health board has approved plans to create a specialist vascular unit for north Wales at Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. There are no plans to close any vascular departments. The health board will continue to treat patients with non-complex needs at all three north Wales hospitals, including Ysbyty Gwynedd.

Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn. Mae bwrdd iechyd prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr wedi cymeradwyo cynlluniau i greu uned fasgwlaidd arbenigol ar gyfer gogledd Cymru yn Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. Nid oes unrhyw gynlluniau i gau unrhyw adrannau fasgwlaidd. Bydd y bwrdd iechyd yn parhau i drin cleifion ag anghenion nad ydynt yn gymhleth ym mhob un o'r tair ysbyty yng ngogledd Cymru, gan gynnwys Ysbyty Gwynedd.

15:10

Mae'r cynlluniau sydd rŵan o'n blaenau ni yn tanseilio gwaith rhagorol yn Ysbyty Gwynedd. Yr wythnos yma, rydw i ac Aelodau etholedig eraill Plaid Cymru yn y gogledd-orllewin wedi galw am asesiad llawn gan Lywodraeth Cymru o effaith, o impact, penderfyniad bwrdd iechyd prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr i ganoli gwasanaethau fasgiwlar yn Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. Fis yn ôl, mi wnaeth y bwrdd fynd yn ôl ar eu gair a thorri addewid i warchod rhai gwasanaethau yn Ysbyty Gwynedd. Mi oedd yna sicrwydd wedi ei roi y byddai'r gwasanaethau llawdriniaeth fasgiwlar yn cael eu cynnal ac, yn hollbwysig, y byddai'r gallu i dderbyn mynediadau brys fasgiwlar yn Ysbyty Gwynedd yn parhau. Nid dyna ydy'r achos erbyn hyn. Yr ofn, yn amlwg, ydy y bydd hyn yn cael effaith andwyol ar gleifion yn y gogledd-orllewin a fydd yn wynebu taith, rai ohonyn nhw, o awr a hanner am fynediad brys am lawdriniaeth sy'n cael ei darparu yn rhagorol yn Ysbyty Gwynedd ar hyn o bryd. A wnewch chi ymrwymo i gynnal yr astudiaeth impact yna? Mae o'r peth lleiaf mae cleifion yn ei haeddu. 

The proposals before us now undermine the excellent work done in Ysbyty Gwynedd. This week, I and other elected Plaid Cymru Members in north-west Wales have asked for a full assessment from the Welsh Government of the impact of the decision taken by the Betsi Cadwaladr university health board to centralise vascular services at Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. A month ago, the board went back on its word and broke a pledge to safeguard certain services at Ysbyty Gwynedd. Assurances had been given that vascular surgery services would be maintained and, crucially, the ability to take emergency cases in Ysbyty Gwynedd would continue. That won’t be the case now. The fear, clearly, is that this will have a detrimental impact on patients in the north-west, who will face a journey, some of them, of an hour and a half for emergency access to treatment that is being provided excellently at Ysbyty Gwynedd. Now, will you commit, therefore, to carry out that impact assessment study? It’s the least that patients deserve.

With respect, I don't share the view that he provides about the service change that is being planned for, and I would point out that this is a planned service change that is supported by the relevant professional body, the Royal College of Surgeons, including by the council here in Wales. And not only that, though, but because of the changes that are being made, the health board has been successful in recruiting new consultant vascular surgeons. They've offered posts to nine consultant vascular surgeons and, of those, four have now commenced employment and two commence in April 2019. That will give a complement of eight substantive consultant surgeons across the health board—a significant improvement. And of all those people who have started or are due to start in the health board, the planned service change has been a real factor in them choosing to undertake employment within the health board. Far from this undermining the service available to patients in every part of north Wales, this service change and the additional recruitment that has taken place on the back of service change is actually a positive for staff and patients.    

Gyda phob parch, nid wyf yn rhannu'r farn y mae'n ei rhoi am y cynlluniau i newid y gwasanaeth, a hoffwn nodi bod y corff proffesiynol perthnasol, Coleg Brenhinol y Llawfeddygon, yn ogystal â'r cyngor yma yng Nghymru, yn cefnogi'r cynlluniau hyn i newid y gwasanaeth. Yn ogystal â hynny, oherwydd y newidiadau sy'n cael eu gwneud, mae'r bwrdd iechyd wedi llwyddo i recriwtio llawfeddygon fasgwlaidd ymgynghorol newydd. Maent wedi cynnig swyddi i naw llawfeddyg fasgwlaidd ac o'r rheini, mae pedwar bellach wedi dechrau ar eu swyddi ac mae dau arall yn dechrau ym mis Ebrill 2019. Bydd hynny'n sicrhau cyflenwad o wyth llawfeddyg ymgynghorol parhaol ar draws y bwrdd iechyd—gwelliant sylweddol. Ac o'r holl bobl sydd wedi dechrau neu sydd ar fin dechrau yn y bwrdd iechyd, mae'r cynlluniau i newid y gwasanaeth wedi bod yn ffactor gwirioneddol yn eu penderfyniad i dderbyn swydd yn y bwrdd iechyd. Mae hyn yn bell o fod yn tanseilio'r gwasanaeth sydd ar gael i gleifion ym mhob rhan o ogledd Cymru, ac mae'r newid i'r gwasanaeth a'r recriwtio ychwanegol sydd wedi digwydd yn ei sgil yn rhywbeth cadarnhaol i staff a chleifion. 

3. Cwestiynau Amserol
3. Topical Questions

Item 3 on our agenda this afternoon is topical questions, and the topical question this afternoon comes from Dawn Bowden. 

Eitem 3 ar ein hagenda y prynhawn yma yw'r cwestiynau amserol, a daw'r cwestiwn amserol y prynhawn yma gan Dawn Bowden.

Bwrdd Iechyd Lleol Cwm Taf
Cwm Taf Local Health Board

1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi sicrwydd i ddefnyddwyr gwasanaethau ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Cwm Taf ynglŷn â diben y monitro uwch a gyhoeddwyd heddiw? 253

1. Will the Minister provide the users of services in Cwm Taf University Health Board with reassurance as to the purpose of the enhanced monitoring announced today? 253

Thank you for the question. The purpose of the enhanced monitoring is to provide additional support to the health board to enable them to focus on appropriate actions and to return to normal monitoring arrangements as quickly as possible.  

Diolch i chi am y cwestiwn. Diben y monitro uwch yw darparu cymorth ychwanegol i'r bwrdd iechyd i'w galluogi i ganolbwyntio ar gamau gweithredu priodol ac i ddychwelyd at drefniadau monitro arferol cyn gynted â phosibl.

Thank you for that response, Minister. As your statement acknowledges, since the escalation framework was introduced in 2014, the health board has always been in routine arrangements. And as well as their good financial track record, we've seen many good clinical and care initiatives delivered by the health board. So, while I was aware of the situation surrounding maternity services that we discussed in the Chamber a few weeks ago, I was surprised to see your statement this morning raising their status from routine arrangements to enhanced monitoring, due to the concerns in the areas that you've highlighted in your statement. However, I do think it's the needs of the users of the service in Cwm Taf that must be paramount at this point. So, can you assure me that the reasons for this escalation to enhanced monitoring are being clearly communicated so that users are provided with the extra reassurance that they need about local services? And can you give an indication of timescale for the resolution of the issues identified? 

Diolch i chi am yr ymateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Fel y mae eich datganiad yn ei gydnabod, mae'r bwrdd iechyd wedi dilyn trefniadau arferol ers cyflwyno'r fframwaith uwchgyfeirio yn 2014. Ac yn ogystal â'u hanes ariannol da, rydym wedi gweld llawer o fentrau clinigol a mentrau gofal da yn cael eu darparu gan y bwrdd iechyd. Felly, er fy mod yn ymwybodol o'r sefyllfa mewn perthynas â gwasanaethau mamolaeth a drafodwyd gennym yn y Siambr ychydig wythnosau'n ôl, cefais fy synnu wrth weld eich datganiad y bore yma yn codi eu statws o drefniadau arferol i fonitro uwch, oherwydd y pryderon yn y meysydd rydych wedi tynnu sylw atynt yn eich datganiad. Fodd bynnag, credaf fod yn rhaid i anghenion defnyddwyr y gwasanaeth yng Nghwm Taf fod o'r pwys mwyaf ar y pwynt hwn. Felly, a allwch fy sicrhau bod y rhesymau dros yr uwchraddio i fonitro uwch yn cael eu cyfleu'n glir fel bod defnyddwyr yn cael y sicrwydd ychwanegol y maent ei angen ynglŷn â gwasanaethau lleol? A allwch roi syniad i ni o'r amserlen ar gyfer datrys y materion a nodwyd?

Yes, and the health board should not be surprised by today's decision. There's been regular communication between the chief executive of NHS Wales and the chief exec of the health board. And since the issues were raised about maternity services, I've spoken on several occasions to the chair of the health board. And the additional matters that were raised by regulators in the audit office are ones that I do not think would have been appropriate to ignore. So, you reach a point where you either choose to do something or choose to avoid doing something, and I think it is the right thing to have made this decision, and to be clear about the limited and specific areas that are of concern. But those concerns do not mean that this is a health board that provides poor-quality health and care to its citizens—far from it. We know from not just patient satisfaction but a range of measures that this is a health board that is performing well in terms of its delivery against time measures, but also against financial performance as well, and there is regular positive patient feedback. I expect, having made the statement today, that the health board will communicate directly to its staff and to its public, but also the timescale for this should be viewed as within periods of months rather than years. There are specific issues that I expect the health board to have a clear action plan to address, with timescales that they can be properly measured and assessed by. Again, the point about reassurance for yourself and the constituents that you serve is that this isn't simply a matter of political convenience made by a Minister for a Minister. There'll be the reassurance that will be those—. The review arrangements by the chief executive of NHS Wales, Wales Audit Office and Healthcare Inspectorate Wales will provide me with advice on whether it's appropriate to change the escalation status to return to normal monitoring, but that is what I expect the health board to plan for and to deliver within a period of months. 

Ie, ac ni ddylai'r penderfyniad heddiw fod yn syndod i'r bwrdd iechyd. Mae cyfathrebu rheolaidd wedi bod rhwng prif weithredwr GIG Cymru a phrif weithredwr y bwrdd iechyd. Ac rwyf wedi siarad â chadeirydd y bwrdd iechyd sawl gwaith ers i'r materion ynghylch gwasanaethau mamolaeth gael eu codi. Ac nid wyf yn credu y byddai wedi bod yn briodol anwybyddu'r materion ychwanegol a godwyd gan reolyddion yn y swyddfa archwilio. Felly, rydych yn cyrraedd pwynt lle rydych naill ai'n dewis gwneud rhywbeth neu'n dewis osgoi gwneud rhywbeth, ac rwy'n credu mai'r penderfyniad hwn oedd y peth cywir i'w wneud, a bod yn glir am y meysydd cyfyngedig a phenodol sy'n peri pryder. Ond nid yw'r pryderon hynny'n golygu bod y bwrdd iechyd hwn yn darparu iechyd a gofal gwael i'w ddinasyddion—ddim o gwbl. O arolygon boddhad cleifion ac amrywiaeth o fesurau eraill, gwyddom fod y bwrdd iechyd hwn yn perfformio'n dda o ran ei gyflawniad yn erbyn mesurau amser, yn ogystal â'i berfformiad ariannol, a cheir adborth cadarnhaol rheolaidd gan gleifion. Ar ôl gwneud y datganiad heddiw, rwy'n disgwyl y bydd y bwrdd iechyd yn cyfathrebu'n uniongyrchol â'i staff a'r cyhoedd, ond hefyd dylid ystyried yr amserlen ar gyfer hyn o fewn misoedd yn hytrach na blynyddoedd. Rwy'n disgwyl i'r bwrdd iechyd gael cynllun i fynd i'r afael â phroblemau penodol, gydag amserlenni y gellir eu defnyddio i fesur ac asesu yn briodol. Unwaith eto, y pwynt ynglŷn â sicrwydd i chi'ch hun a'r etholwyr a wasanaethwch yw nad mater syml o hwylustod gwleidyddol a wneir gan Weinidog ar gyfer Gweinidog yw hwn. Bydd sicrwydd—. Bydd y trefniadau adolygu gan brif weithredwr GIG Cymru, Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru ac Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru yn rhoi cyngor i mi ynglŷn ag a yw'n briodol newid y statws uwchgyfeirio a dychwelyd i fonitro arferol, ond rwy'n disgwyl i'r bwrdd iechyd gynllunio ar gyfer hynny, a'i gyflawni o fewn cyfnod o fisoedd.

15:15

Minister, I'm grateful for the statement that you issued this morning. To the normal reader looking at this it would clearly indicate that this decision was taken out of the normal cycle of evaluation. I think I'm correct in saying that, but if you could confirm that I'd be grateful, because it would look to me as if a special meeting had been called in December for this measure to be taken today or announced today.

We must remember that 300,000 people depend on this health board for their healthcare and many thousands of staff depend on the health board as their place of employment and the service and professional development that they want to exercise in delivering excellent quality of care. But the list that you've identified in your statement this morning does cause great concern. Because, as the Member for Merthyr indicated, initially, obviously, this statement—. The Minister provided a statement on maternity services, now we have a list seven-strong, from staffing levels to delivery of Health Inspectorate Wales reports. This is a concerning time—that this isn't some sort of vortex that the health board is going into and ultimately more problems will be identified. Are you confident that the list that you've identified in your statement is a comprehensive list of the issues that this health board needs to address, and are you confident that the support that you identify in your statement in relation to governance arrangements and the support that you will be offering the board will rectify the problems and the health board will emerge out of this enhanced level of monitoring? Because to date I don't think a health board has emerged out of enhanced levels of monitoring here in Wales. As the health spokesman for the Conservatives identified, five of the seven health boards are in special measures at the moment here in Wales. 

Weinidog, rwy'n ddiolchgar am y datganiad a gyhoeddasoch y bore yma. I'r darllenydd arferol sy'n edrych ar hyn, byddai'n dynodi'n glir fod y penderfyniad hwn wedi cael ei wneud y tu allan i'r cylch gwerthuso arferol. Credaf fy mod yn gywir yn dweud hynny, ond buaswn yn ddiolchgar os gallwch gadarnhau hynny, oherwydd mae'n ymddangos i mi fod cyfarfod arbennig wedi ei alw ym mis Rhagfyr i sicrhau bod y mesur hwn yn cael ei gyflwyno heddiw neu ei gyhoeddi heddiw.

Mae'n rhaid i ni gofio bod 300,000 o bobl yn dibynnu ar y gofal iechyd y mae'r bwrdd iechyd hwn yn ei ddarparu, ac mae miloedd lawer o staff yn dibynnu arno fel eu man gwaith a'r gwasanaeth a'r datblygiad proffesiynol y maent eisiau ei arfer wrth ddarparu gofal o ansawdd rhagorol. Ond mae'r rhestr rydych wedi'i nodi yn eich datganiad y bore yma yn achosi pryder mawr. Oherwydd, fel y mae'r Aelod dros Ferthyr wedi'i nodi, i ddechrau, yn amlwg, yn y datganiad hwn—. Rhoddodd y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar wasanaethau mamolaeth, a bellach mae gennym restr saith pwynt, o lefelau staffio i ddarparu adroddiadau Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru. Mae hwn yn gyfnod sy'n peri pryder—nad yw hwn yn rhyw fath o drobwll y bydd y bwrdd iechyd yn mynd i mewn iddo a mwy o broblemau'n cael eu nodi yn y pen draw. A ydych yn hyderus fod y rhestr rydych wedi'i nodi yn eich datganiad yn rhestr gynhwysfawr o'r materion y mae angen i'r bwrdd iechyd fynd i'r afael â hwy, ac a ydych yn hyderus fod y cymorth rydych yn ei nodi yn eich datganiad mewn perthynas â threfniadau llywodraethu a'r cymorth y byddwch yn ei gynnig i'r bwrdd yn unioni'r problemau ac y bydd y bwrdd iechyd yn dod allan o'r lefel uwch o fonitro? Oherwydd, hyd yn hyn, nid wyf yn credu bod unrhyw fwrdd iechyd wedi dod allan o statws monitro uwch yma yng Nghymru. Fel y nododd llefarydd iechyd y Ceidwadwyr, mae pump o'r saith bwrdd iechyd yn destun mesurau arbennig yma yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd.

First, to do with your point about—. Every health board has challenges to face in almost every single area of activity. We regularly discuss the rising demand, the changing nature of that demand, and, of course, those are challenges for a health board in the services that it provides. I don't think any person of any party political persuasion would be able to define an exhaustive list of challenges for the health board. What I have done is provide a clear list of the issues that have led to my decision to change the monitoring status of the health board. I expect these issues to be addressed and, if they are, then I would expect there to be advice that would mean that the escalation status of the health board could return to normal monitoring. 

This was a meeting outside of the usual cycle, and, again, that is a choice. We can either choose to say, 'Let's park the issue until the normal cycle takes place in a number of months', or we could say, 'There's a list of issues in front of us now and so a meeting should take place now to assess what the appropriate course of action is', and I do believe that was the right choice to make. There should be that reassurance for staff and the public that this is a specific list of issues to address. I do not expect there to be any kind of suggestion there is a list of issues that will see the health board return further and higher up the list of escalation status. I expect them, as a high-performing board, to take seriously the statement that has been made today and I expect them to respond appropriately and have a clear plan that they will adhere to to actually return to normal monitoring, as I've said, in a period of months. 

Yn gyntaf, yn ymwneud â'ch pwynt am—. Mae gan bob bwrdd iechyd heriau i'w hwynebu ym mron pob maes gweithgaredd. Rydym yn trafod y galw cynyddol yn rheolaidd, a'r newid yn natur y galw hwnnw, ac wrth gwrs, mae'r rheini'n heriau i fwrdd iechyd yn y gwasanaethau y mae'n eu darparu. Nid wyf yn credu y byddai unrhyw berson o unrhyw duedd wleidyddol yn gallu diffinio rhestr gynhwysfawr o'r heriau sy'n wynebu'r bwrdd iechyd. Yr hyn a wneuthum yw darparu rhestr glir o'r materion sydd wedi arwain at fy mhenderfyniad i newid statws monitro'r bwrdd iechyd. Rwy'n disgwyl i'r problemau hyn gael eu datrys ac os cânt eu datrys, buaswn yn disgwyl mai'r cyngor fyddai y gallai statws uwchgyfeirio'r bwrdd iechyd ddychwelyd i fonitro arferol. 

Roedd hwn yn gyfarfod y tu allan i'r cylch arferol, ac unwaith eto, mae hwnnw'n ddewis. Gallwn naill ai ddewis dweud, 'Gadewch i ni ohirio'r mater hyd nes y bydd y cylch arferol yn digwydd mewn nifer o fisoedd', neu gallwn ddweud, 'Mae rhestr o broblemau ger ein bron yn awr ac felly dylid cynnal cyfarfod yn awr i asesu beth yw'r camau gweithredu priodol', ac rwy'n credu mai hwnnw oedd y dewis cywir i'w wneud. Dylid rhoi sicrwydd i staff a'r cyhoedd mai rhestr benodol o bethau i'w datrys yw hon. Nid wyf yn disgwyl fod unrhyw awgrym fod yna restr o broblemau a fydd yn achosi i'r bwrdd iechyd symud yn uwch i fyny'r rhestr o ran statws uwchgyfeirio. Fel bwrdd sy'n perfformio ar lefel uchel, rwy'n disgwyl iddynt fod o ddifrif ynglŷn â'r datganiad a wnaethpwyd heddiw ac rwy'n disgwyl iddynt ymateb yn briodol a llunio cynllun clir y byddant yn glynu wrtho er mwyn dychwelyd i fonitro arferol, fel rwyf wedi'i ddweud, o fewn cyfnod o fisoedd.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement today. Of course, the priority for this intervention is to ensure that the board and its staff are supported and that my constituents and other constituents can have the utmost confidence in their local health services.

Your statement highlights six areas of focus and I think this is important, as other Members have said—that it reinforces that this enhanced monitoring is only in certain areas of provision and not across the piece. How can we make sure that local people in communities like Cynon Valley, who may only be aware of the headline news, know that this does not refer to the overall quality of services? And how can we get that reassurance to people, using the NHS in Cwm Taf, and, of course, the hard-working staff who are employed there?

I welcome the comments by the chief executive of Cwm Taf that the health board is determined to work with the Welsh Government so that routine measures can be returned to as soon as possible, and I welcome your assurances on how long you expect that process to take, but could you provide any further details on the type of monitoring that will take place in the interim?

Referring back to your statement from October last year on maternity services in Cwm Taf, then you said you'd asked your officials to seek reassurance from all health boards in regard to incident reporting and escalation arrangements. In your statement today, one of the areas of focus is the quality of serious incident reporting. What initial findings have your officials found about the quality of incident reporting more generally across the Welsh NHS?

My final question relates to governance arrangements. In your statement, you note the need to provide external support in light of the relatively recent tenure of board members, and I think that's really important. I'm concerned that this type of support is only coming now after board members are already in post and concerns have been identified, so how can the Welsh Government in future best work with newly appointed board members before they take up their roles to ensure that they're all well placed to fulfil their obligations?

Diolch i chi am eich datganiad heddiw, Weinidog. Wrth gwrs, blaenoriaeth yr ymyrraeth hon yw sicrhau bod y bwrdd a'i staff yn cael eu cefnogi a bod gan fy etholwyr ac etholwyr eraill bob ffydd yn eu gwasanaethau iechyd lleol.

Mae eich datganiad yn tynnu sylw at chwe maes ffocws a chredaf ei bod yn bwysig, fel y mae Aelodau eraill wedi'i ddweud, ei fod yn cadarnhau nad yw'r monitro uwch hwn ond yn weithredol mewn rhai meysydd darpariaeth ac nad yw'n rhywbeth cyffredinol. Sut y gallwn sicrhau bod pobl leol mewn cymunedau megis Cwm Cynon, nad ydynt ond yn ymwybodol o'r penawdau newyddion, o bosibl, yn gwybod nad yw'n cyfeirio at ansawdd cyffredinol gwasanaethau? A sut y gallwn roi'r sicrwydd hwnnw i bobl sy'n defnyddio'r GIG yng Nghwm Taf, a'r staff gweithgar a gyflogir yno wrth gwrs?

Rwy'n croesawu'r sylwadau gan brif weithredwr Cwm Taf fod y bwrdd iechyd yn benderfynol o weithio gyda Llywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau y gellir dychwelyd i fesurau arferol cyn gynted â phosibl, ac rwy'n croesawu'r sicrwydd rydych wedi'i roi ynglŷn â faint o amser rydych yn disgwyl i'r broses honno gymryd, ond a allwch chi ddarparu unrhyw fanylion pellach ar y math o fonitro a fydd yn digwydd yn y cyfamser?

Gan gyfeirio'n ôl at y datganiad a wnaethoch ym mis Hydref y llynedd ar wasanaethau mamolaeth yng Nghwm Taf, dywedasoch eich bod wedi gofyn i'ch swyddogion geisio sicrwydd gan bob bwrdd iechyd mewn perthynas â threfniadau rhoi gwybod am ddigwyddiadau a threfniadau uwchgyfeirio. Yn eich datganiad heddiw, un o'r meysydd ffocws yw ansawdd trefniadau rhoi gwybod am ddigwyddiadau difrifol. Beth yw canfyddiadau cychwynnol eich swyddogion mewn perthynas ag ansawdd trefniadau rhoi gwybod am ddigwyddiadau yn fwy cyffredinol ar draws y GIG yng Nghymru?

Mae fy nghwestiwn olaf yn ymwneud â threfniadau llywodraethu. Yn eich datganiad, rydych yn nodi'r angen i ddarparu cymorth allanol o ystyried mai yn gymharol ddiweddar y penodwyd rhai o'r aelodau i'r bwrdd, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n wirioneddol bwysig. Rwy'n bryderus mai dim ond yn awr y mae'r math hwn o gymorth ar gael, pan fo aelodau'r bwrdd eisoes yn eu lle a phryderon wedi cael eu nodi, felly sut y gall Llywodraeth Cymru weithio gydag aelodau newydd a benodir i'r bwrdd yn y dyfodol cyn iddynt ymgymryd â'u swyddogaethau er mwyn sicrhau eu bod yn y sefyllfa orau i gyflawni eu rhwymedigaethau?

15:20

Thank you. I'm happy to reconfirm and to reiterate that this statement does not affect the overall quality of services, and it should not lead to a loss of public trust and confidence in the overall quality of services provided by Cwm Taf university health board. I hope that making that as a very clear statement will be helpful, and I'm sure the health board will be reiterating that to both its staff and the population that it serves. I'm pleased that you have contact yourself directly with the health board. I think it would be sensible for the health board to directly contact stakeholders like constituency and regional Members to confirm the steps that they are taking directly to reiterate the points about the seriousness with which they take it but also the steps that they are taking.

There is, of course, regular contact with my officials and the health board itself. I expect that to be more regular now following the decision that I've made and announced today, and, of course, I'll continue to speak with the chair as well. I'll make sure there is a regular conversation between me and the chair, not just about the plan but actually about how far ahead we are in doing it to make sure there is appropriate oversight.

The point you made about the quality of serious incident reports—this is something that is regularly discussed during the regular escalation conversations that take place. There is a range of areas that both the Wales Audit Office and the inspectorate actually raise, and this is a regular feature of it. So, there is the challenge about making sure that both the serious incidents are reported and reported in good time and that the quality of the information that is shared is appropriate as well. This should not be a difficult issue to resolve, and for me it's really important—it's about that culture of openness and not wanting to try and downplay the seriousness of it, because it's the nature of that open reporting and that appropriate learning takes place from them.

On your broader point about board development, I think it's a fair point about how we constantly review the board development measures that are in place as people take up their posts and then whilst they're new in post as well to make sure that they continue to have support to undertake their conduct effectively. And, certainly, following this, I'll be interested in looking again, not just in Cwm Taf, but across the broader system, to make sure that we're getting that right.

Diolch. Rwy'n hapus i ail-gadarnhau ac ailadrodd nad yw'r datganiad hwn yn effeithio ar ansawdd cyffredinol gwasanaethau, ac ni ddylai arwain at golli ffydd a hyder ymhlith y cyhoedd yn ansawdd cyffredinol y gwasanaethau a ddarperir gan fwrdd iechyd prifysgol Cwm Taf. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd datgan hynny'n glir o fudd, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd y bwrdd iechyd yn ailadrodd hynny i'w staff ac i'r cyhoedd a wasanaethir ganddo. Rwy'n falch eich bod mewn cysylltiad uniongyrchol â'r bwrdd iechyd eich hun. Credaf y byddai'n synhwyrol i'r bwrdd iechyd gysylltu'n uniongyrchol â rhanddeiliaid fel Aelodau etholaethol a rhanbarthol i gadarnhau'r camau y maent yn eu cymryd ar unwaith i ailadrodd y pwyntiau ynglŷn â difrifoldeb y mater iddynt hwy yn ogystal â'r camau y maent yn eu cymryd. 

Wrth gwrs, rwyf mewn cysylltiad rheolaidd â fy swyddogion a'r bwrdd iechyd ei hun. Rwy'n disgwyl y bydd y cysylltiad hwnnw'n fwy rheolaidd yn awr yn dilyn y penderfyniad a wneuthum ac a gyhoeddais heddiw, ac wrth gwrs, byddaf yn parhau i siarad â'r cadeirydd yn ogystal. Byddaf yn sicrhau bod sgwrs reolaidd rhyngof â'r cadeirydd, nid yn unig am y cynllun ond am ein cynnydd er mwyn sicrhau bod goruchwyliaeth briodol. 

O ran y pwynt a wnaethoch am ansawdd trefniadau rhoi gwybod am ddigwyddiadau difrifol—mae  hwn yn fater a drafodir yn rheolaidd yn ystod y sgyrsiau uwchgyfeirio rheolaidd sy'n digwydd. Mae Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru a'r arolygiaeth yn codi ystod o feysydd mewn gwirionedd, ac mae hon yn nodwedd reolaidd. Felly, mae yna her o ran gwneud yn siŵr fod digwyddiadau difrifol yn cael eu hadrodd mewn da bryd a bod ansawdd yr wybodaeth a rennir yn briodol hefyd. Ni ddylai hwn fod yn fater anodd i'w ddatrys, ac i mi mae'n wirioneddol bwysig—mae'n ymwneud â'r diwylliant o fod yn agored, heb geisio bychanu difrifoldeb y mater, oherwydd mae natur yr adrodd agored a'r dysgu priodol yn digwydd o ganlyniad i'r diwylliant hwnnw.

O ran eich pwynt ehangach ynglŷn â datblygiad y bwrdd, credaf ei fod yn bwynt teg ynglŷn â sut rydym yn mynd ati'n gyson i adolygu mesurau datblygu'r bwrdd sydd ar waith wrth i bobl gychwyn ar eu swyddi a thra'u bod yn newydd i'r swydd hefyd er mwyn gwneud yn siŵr eu bod yn parhau i gael cymorth i gyflawni eu gwaith yn effeithiol. Ac yn sicr, yn dilyn hyn, bydd gennyf ddiddordeb mewn edrych eto, nid yn unig yng Nghwm Taf, ond ar draws y system ehangach, i sicrhau ein bod yn gwneud hynny'n iawn.

Many of my constituents, particularly to the east of Ogmore in Llanharan and Gilfach Goch and elsewhere, will be served by Cwm Taf health authority, both in primary care and secondary care and acute pathways as well, and it is worth reiterating that, up until now, of course, Cwm Taf have indeed been a high-performing board and organisation right across the piste with much to praise, so this is a bit of a knock-back, but there is much good in the performance of this organisation, regardless of this. But I note that, beyond the maternity services, which we knew of already, of the other points, we are talking about issues of compliance, actions not having been taken, reporting not having been up to spec, response to actions to Healthcare Inspectorate Wales inspection reports and actions not completed, compliance with the nurse staffing Act. It seems to me that these are things that can be done, can be achieved, in fairly short order if they get their act together, but the one that concerns me is the one in the middle of the list in your statement today, which is concerns in respect of quality governance arrangements. Now, I just wonder what does the Minister think in terms of whether the health board have got a real tight grip on needing to respond rapidly to these actions across the piste and bring it back into a health board that, across the piste, is once again high performing and takes itself out of the escalation measures today. Do they appreciate the seriousness of the Minister and the seriousness of the message that he's put in front of them—that there is no complacency, no resting on past performance; they need to get a grip and get out of this escalation?

And my second question is whether this has any implications for the issue of the transfer of the Bridgend area of ABMU across to Cwm Taf. I'm sure it doesn't, and this is a high-performing organisation across many areas, but I think many of my constituents, not simply in the Llanharan, Gilfach Goch area, but in the wider Maesteg, Garw, Ogmore valley areas, Sarn and elsewhere, who up until now have been served by ABMU, who are in the middle of that transition now across to Cwm Taf, will want to hear reassurance from the Minister that they should not have any worries based on what we've heard today.

Bydd llawer o fy etholwyr, yn enwedig i'r dwyrain o Ogwr yn Llanharan a'r Gilfach Goch ac mewn mannau eraill, yn cael eu gwasanaethu gan awdurdod iechyd Cwm Taf, mewn perthynas â gofal sylfaenol a gofal eilaidd a llwybrau acíwt yn ogystal, ac mae'n werth ailadrodd fod Cwm Taf, hyd yn hyn, wrth gwrs, wedi bod yn fwrdd ac yn sefydliad sydd wedi perfformio'n dda yn gyffredinol, gyda llawer i'w ganmol, felly mae hon yn dipyn o ergyd, ond mae llawer sy'n dda ym mherfformiad y sefydliad hwn er hynny. Ond y tu hwnt i'r gwasanaethau mamolaeth, ac roeddem yn gwybod amdanynt hwy eisoes, nodaf ein bod yn sôn am broblemau o ran cydymffurfiaeth, camau gweithredu na chafodd eu rhoi ar waith, trefniadau adrodd annigonol, ymateb i gamau gweithredu yn adroddiadau arolygu Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru, a methiant i gwblhau camau gweithredu, cydymffurfiaeth â'r Ddeddf lefelau staff nyrsio. Mae'n ymddangos i mi fod y rhain yn bethau y gellir eu gwneud, y gellir eu cyflawni, mewn amser cymharol fyr os gallant gael trefn ar bethau, ond yr un sy'n peri pryder i mi yw'r un yng nghanol y rhestr yn eich datganiad heddiw, sef pryderon mewn perthynas â threfniadau llywodraethu o ansawdd. Nawr, rwy'n meddwl tybed beth y mae'r Gweinidog yn ei feddwl o ran pa mor gadarn yw gafael y bwrdd iechyd ar yr angen i ymateb yn gyflym i'r camau gweithredu hyn yn gyffredinol a dod â hwnnw'n ôl i fwrdd iechyd sydd, unwaith eto, yn perfformio'n dda yn gyffredinol, i allu dychwelyd at fonitro arferol heddiw. A ydynt yn sylweddoli pa mor ddifrifol yw hyn i'r Gweinidog a difrifoldeb y neges y mae wedi'i chyflwyno—nad oes unrhyw hunanfodlonrwydd i fod, na gorffwys ar berfformiad y gorffennol; mae angen iddynt gael trefn ar bethau fel y gallant ddychwelyd i fonitro arferol?

Fy ail gwestiwn yw, a oes gan hyn unrhyw oblygiadau o ran trosglwyddo ardal Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr o Brifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg i Gwm Taf. Rwy'n siŵr nad oes unrhyw oblygiadau yn hynny o beth, ac mae hwn yn sefydliad sy'n perfformio'n dda ar draws llawer o ardaloedd, ond credaf y bydd llawer o fy etholwyr, nid yn unig yn ardal Llanharan a'r Gilfach Goch, ond ardal ehangach Maesteg, Cwm Garw, Cwm Ogwr, Sarn a mannau eraill, sydd wedi cael eu gwasanaethu gan Brifysgol Abertawe Bro Morgannwg hyd yn hyn, ac sydd yng nghanol y broses o gael eu trosglwyddo i Gwm Taf ar hyn o bryd, eisiau sicrwydd gan y Gweinidog nad oes angen iddynt boeni ar sail yr hyn rydym wedi'i glywed heddiw.

15:25

I'm happy to give reassurance and confirmation on your second point simply at the outset. This won't affect the timetable for boundary change. I believe it would be entirely the wrong thing to do to try and pause or interrupt that now. That boundary change is due to take place from the start of April, and this should not affect the health board's ability to deal with the list of areas. The external review of maternity services has already been commissioned; they will need to respond to that. And the areas, as you rightly highlight, of additional concern that are in my statement, many of them are about compliance, about making sure that things are done properly and in an appropriate timescale.

The challenge about in respect of the quality of governance arrangements, that is partly a question for officers, employees of the health board, but it's also a challenge for the non-exec board members as well. It goes back to the point that Vikki Howells made about making sure that board members are in a position to properly undertake their functions, to both scrutinise the health board and not simply to be champions for the organisation. That is a dual role, but it's one we'd expect members to undertake.

So, that's my expectation, and I do think there is always learning to be taken from where things are not optimal. And I do expect that, within this, there'll be learning for other health boards to make sure that they look again at their own compliance again to make sure they're doing what they should do, when they should do it, and that, equally, members are supported to be able to undertake effectively their role as board members.

Rwy'n hapus i roi sicrwydd a chadarnhad mewn perthynas â'ch ail bwynt yn syth. Ni fydd hyn yn effeithio ar yr amserlen ar gyfer newid y ffiniau. Credaf y byddai'n gwbl anghywir i ni geisio oedi neu dorri ar draws hynny yn awr. Mae'r newid i'r ffiniau i ddigwydd o ddechrau mis Ebrill, ac ni ddylai effeithio ar allu'r bwrdd iechyd i ymdrin â'r rhestr o feysydd. Mae'r arolwg allanol o'r gwasanaethau mamolaeth eisoes wedi'i gomisiynu; bydd angen iddynt ymateb iddo. Ac mae llawer o'r meysydd sy'n peri pryder ychwanegol a grybwyllais yn fy natganiad, ac rydych wedi cyfeirio atynt, yn ymwneud â chydymffurfiaeth a sicrhau bod pethau'n cael eu gwneud yn iawn ac o fewn cyfnod priodol o amser.

Her i swyddogion, cyflogeion y bwrdd iechyd, yn rhannol yw'r gwaith o sicrhau ansawdd trefniadau llywodraethu, ond mae hefyd yn her i'r aelodau anweithredol o'r bwrdd yn ogystal. Mae'n ymwneud â'r pwynt a wnaeth Vikki Howells ynglŷn â sicrhau bod aelodau'r bwrdd mewn sefyllfa i gyflawni eu swyddogaethau yn briodol, i graffu ar y bwrdd iechyd ac nid gweithredu fel hyrwyddwyr y sefydliad yn unig. Mae honno'n rôl ddeuol, ond mae'n un y byddem yn disgwyl i aelodau ei chyflawni.

Felly, dyna rwy'n ei ddisgwyl, a chredaf y gallwn bob amser ddysgu gwersi o sefyllfaoedd lle nad yw pethau ar eu gorau. Ac yn rhan o hyn, rwy'n disgwyl y bydd gwersi i fyrddau iechyd eraill eu dysgu er mwyn sicrhau eu bod yn edrych eto ar eu cydymffurfiaeth eu hunain i wneud yn siŵr eu bod yn gwneud yr hyn y dylent fod yn ei wneud, pan ddylent ei wneud, ac yn yr un modd, fod aelodau'n cael eu cynorthwyo i allu ymgymryd â'u rôl fel aelodau o'r bwrdd yn effeithiol.

4. Datganiadau 90 Eiliad
4. 90-second Statements

Item 4 on our agenda is the 90-second statements, and we have one this afternoon from the Llywydd, Elin Jones.

Eitem 4 ar ein hagenda yw'r datganiadau 90 eiliad, ac mae gennym un y prynhawn yma, gan y Llywydd, Elin Jones.

Ar 9 Ionawr 1839, 180 o flynyddoedd i’r dydd heddiw, ganwyd Sarah Jane Rees yn Llangrannog, Ceredigion. Yn fwy adnabyddus yn ôl ei henw barddol, Cranogwen, fe wnaeth hi herio holl gyfyngiadau ar fywyd menyw yn yr oes Fictoraidd i fwynhau gyrfa arloesol. Yng ngeiriau yr Athro Deirdre Beddoe:

'Cranogwen oedd merch Gymreig fwyaf nodedig y bedwaredd ganrif ar bymtheg.'

Yn ei harddegau hwyr, perswadiodd ei thad, a oedd yn gapten llong, i fynd â hi i’r môr. Am ddwy flynedd bu'n gweithio fel morwraig ar longau cargo rhwng Cymru a Ffrainc cyn dychwelyd i Lundain ac i Lerpwl i gynyddu ei haddysg forwrol. Enillodd ei thystysgrif prif forwr, ac, yn 21 oed, sefydlodd ysgol yng Ngheredigion, lle addysgodd forwriaeth i ddynion ifanc lleol.

Yn 1865, daeth yn enwog dros nos gan mai hi oedd y fenyw gyntaf erioed i ennill gwobr farddoniaeth yn yr Eisteddfod Genedlaethol, gan guro prif feirdd eraill y dydd. Roedd cerdd fuddugol Cranogwen, 'Y Fodrwy Briodasol', yn ddychan cynhyrfus ar dynged y wraig briod. Aeth ymlaen i fod yn un o'r beirdd mwyaf poblogaidd yng Nghymru, gan farddoni ar bynciau amrywiol o wladgarwch i longddrylliadau.

Mi oedd yn ddarlithwraig ac yn bregethwraig ar adeg pan nad oedd siarad cyhoeddus yn beth derbyniol i fenywod o gwbl. Mi sefydlodd gylchgrawn i fenywod, Y Frythones, sefydlodd Undeb Dirwestol Merched y De, a gwneud hynny er mwyn sicrhau diogelwch menywod yn eu cartrefi ac o fewn cymdeithas.

Un o'i syniadau mwyaf blaengar oedd lloches i fenywod ifanc, ac er na fu hi byw i weld ei breuddwyd o dŷ i fenywod digartref yn cael ei adeiladu, agorwyd y lloches Llety Cranogwen er cof iddi yn y Rhondda yn 1922.

Mae Cranogwen yn un o’r pump o fenywod Cymreig y Merched Mawreddog/Hidden Heroines, sy’n destun pleidlais yr wythnos yma i’w hanfarwoli gyda cherflun cyhoeddus. Y bedair arall yw Elizabeth Andrews, Betty Campbell, Elaine Morgan, a’r Arglwyddes Rhondda. Mi fydd y bleidlais yma yn agor am 9.30 p.m. nos Wener. Mi fyddaf i yn pleidleisio dros Cranogwen o Geredigion, ond mae’r pump ohonynt, a mwy, yn haeddu eu cofio a’u hanrhydeddu.

On 9 January, 1839, exactly 180 years to the day, Sarah Jane Rees was born in Llangrannog, Ceredigion. Better known by her bardic name, Cranogwen, she challenged all the restrictions of a woman’s life in the Victorian age and enjoyed a groundbreaking career. In the words of Professor Deirdre Beddoe:

'Cranogwen was the most notable Welsh woman of the nineteenth century.'

In her late teens, she persuaded her father, who was a  ship’s captain, to take her on board ship. For two years, she worked as a sailor on cargo ships between Wales and France before returning to London and Liverpool to further her nautical career. She gained her master mariner certificate, and, at the age of 21, she established a school in Ceredigion where she taught seamanship to local young men.

In 1865, she became an overnight sensation as the first woman ever to win a poetry prize at the National Eisteddfod, beating the major male poets of the day. Cranogwen’s winning poem, ‘Y Fodrwy Briodasol’—the wedding ring—was a stirring satire on the fate of the married woman. She went on to be one of the most popular poets in Wales, exploring themes ranging from patriotism to shipwrecks.

She was a lecturer and a preacher in an age when public speaking by women was frowned upon. She established a women’s magazine, Y Frythones. She established the South Wales Women’s Temperance Union in order to secure the safety of women in both their homes and within society.

One of her most progressive ideas was a refuge for young women, and while she did not live to see her dream of a home for homeless women being built, the Llety Cranogwen shelter was opened in her memory in the Rhondda in 1922.

Cranogwen is one of the five Welsh Hidden Heroines subject to a public poll this week. The winner will be immortalised by a public statue. The other four are Elizabeth Andrews, Betty Campbell, Elaine Morgan and Lady Rhondda. This poll will open at 9.30 p.m. this Friday night. I will cast my vote for Cranogwen from Ceredigion, but all five, and more, deserve to be both remembered and honoured.

15:30
Cynnig i ethol Aelod i bwyllgor
Motion to elect a Member to a Committee

We now move on to a motion to elect a member to a committee, and I call on the Member of the Business Committee to move the motion formally. 

Symudwn yn awr at gynnig i ethol aelod i bwyllgor, a galwaf ar yr Aelod o'r Pwyllgor Busnes i wneud y cynnig yn ffurfiol.

Cynnig NDM6916 Elin Jones

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.14, yn ethol Rebecca Evans (Llafur) yn aelod o’r Pwyllgor Busnes yn lle Julie James (Llafur).

Motion NDM6916 Elin Jones

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects Rebecca Evans (Labour) as a Member of the Business Committee in place of Julie James (Labour).

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36. 

Diolch. Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

5. Dadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyllid: Cost Gofalu am Boblogaeth sy'n Heneiddio
5. Debate on the Finance Committee report: The Cost of Caring for an Ageing Population

Item 5 on our agenda this afternoon is a debate on the Finance Committee report 'The cost of caring for an ageing population'. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—Llyr Gruffydd. 

Eitem 5 ar agenda ein y prynhawn yma yw dadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyllid 'Cost gofalu am boblogaeth sy'n heneiddio'. Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i wneud y cynnig—Llyr Gruffydd.

Cynnig NDM6908 Llyr Gruffydd

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyllid, 'Cost gofalu am boblogaeth sy’n heneiddio', a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 12 Hydref 2018.

Motion NDM6908 Llyr Gruffydd

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the Finance Committee, 'The cost of caring for an ageing population', which was laid in the Table Office on 12 October 2018.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n falch iawn o gael siarad yn y ddadl yma heddiw fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cyllid ar yr ymchwiliad i gost gofal am boblogaeth sy'n heneiddio. Ac er nad  oeddwn i'n aelod o'r pwyllgor adeg cynnal rhai o'r sesiynau tystiolaeth, mi hoffwn i, wrth gwrs, ddiolch i bawb a gyfrannodd, a hefyd i'r Gweinidog blaenorol dros Blant, Pobl Hŷn a Gofal Cymdeithasol am ei ymateb e i'n hadroddiad ni, ac yn enwedig am dderbyn ein hargymhellion ni, naill ai yn llawn neu mewn egwyddor.

Fe gafodd un o'r chwe maes a drafodwyd gennym ni yn ein hymchwiliad, sef yr arfau cyllidol, neu'r levers cyllidol, sydd ar gael ar gyfer ariannu gofal cymdeithasol, ei drafod yn y Cyfarfod Llawn ddoe, wrth gwrs, ac felly mi fyddaf i'n canolbwyntio ar y pum arf arall yn fy nghyfraniad i heddiw. Fodd bynnag, fel y nodais i ddoe, mi oeddwn i'n siomedig nad oedd y Llywodraeth yn teimlo y gallai hi gydweithio â'r pwyllgor o ran amserlennu ei dadl hi, er mwyn rhoi cyfle inni gael trosolwg mwy cydgysylltiedig o'r drefn gyllido ar gyfer gofal cymdeithasol. Fe glywom ni dystiolaeth gref yng ngwaith y pwyllgor fod dryswch ar raddfa eang am y system sydd gennym ni, ac mi ddywedwyd wrthym ni y byddai'n amhosibl creu system fwy cymhleth, hyd yn oed pe bai rhywun yn trio gwneud hynny. Nid yw dadl ddarniog ar system neu gyfundrefn ddarniog yn mynd i ddod â'r eglurder sydd ei angen arnom o ran y pwnc pwysig hwn. Felly, rydw i wedi gwneud y pwynt ein bod ni wedi colli cyfle, rydw i'n meddwl, ac rydw i'n gwybod bod y Trefnydd yma, mewn capasiti arall, yn mynd i ymateb i'r ddadl fel y Gweinidog Cyllid, ond rydw i jest eisiau dweud fy mod i'n fwy na pharod i edrych ar unrhyw ddulliau mwy creadigol i ddefnyddio amser y lle yma yn fwy effeithiol ac yn fwy effeithlon efallai yn y dyfodol. 

Nawr, fe glywodd y pwyllgor, er bod gwariant ar ofal cymdeithasol wedi'i ddiogelu mewn termau cymharol, fod gwariant y pen ar bobl dros 65 oed wedi gostwng yn sylweddol, yn rhannol oherwydd bod y boblogaeth hŷn yn cynyddu. Mae'r pwyllgor yn pryderu, oni bai bod camau'n cael eu cymryd, y bydd y pwysau parhaus yma ar gyllidebau gofal cymdeithasol, yn sgil galw cynyddol, yn arwain yn y pen draw at ddarpariaeth annigonol o wasanaethau ar gyfer pobl hŷn.

Mae'r pryder o ran y pwysau cynyddol hwn yn cael ei gymhlethu ymhellach gan ein dibyniaeth ar y rôl amhrisiadwy y mae'r 370,000 o ofalwyr di-dâl, neu ofalwyr gwirfoddol yn ei chwarae—cyfraniad, gyda llaw, sydd werth dros £8 biliwn y flwyddyn i economi Cymru, yn ôl amcangyfrifon. Ac mi hoffwn i gydnabod y rôl hanfodol hon, ac ailadrodd ein barn ni, er mor werthfawr yw'r cyfraniad hwnnw, wrth gwrs, nad yw dibynnu ar ofalwyr di-dâl yn gynaliadwy yn y tymor hirach.

Nawr, mae ein hadroddiad yn pwysleisio ein pryder ynghylch a yw'r asesiadau y mae gan ofalwyr hawl iddyn nhw o dan y Ddeddf gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn cael eu cynnal, ac, ble y maen nhw'n cael eu cynnal, a yw anghenion yn cael eu hasesu'n gywir. Mae'r cymorth a roddir i ofalwyr yn hanfodol, ac roedd y pwyllgor yn pryderu am y dull o gynnal asesiadau. Fe wnaethom ni argymell y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru gynnal adolygiad o asesiadau gofalwyr er mwyn gwerthuso a yw'r Ddeddf gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a llesiant yn cryfhau'r cymorth sy'n cael ei roi i ofalwyr. Ac rwy'n falch bod yr adolygiad hwn wedi dechrau ym mis Tachwedd, ac rwy'n edrych ymlaen at weld ei gasgliadau.

Fe glywodd y pwyllgor bryderon hefyd ynghylch pwysau ariannol a phwysau staffio yn y sector gofal. Roeddem ni'n pryderu i glywed bod darparwyr gofal cartref, mewn rhai achosion, yn ymateb drwy roi contractau yn ôl i awdurdodau lleol, gan nad ydyn nhw yn ariannol hyfyw ar lefelau'r ffioedd sy'n cael eu talu iddyn nhw. Fel sydd wedi'i nodi yn ein hadroddiad, mae'n hanfodol felly fod y contractau sy'n cael eu rhoi gan awdurdodau lleol yn realistig, a hynny er mwyn osgoi unrhyw gynnydd mewn angen sydd heb ei ddiwallu, a fyddai wedyn, yn ei dro, yn rhoi pwysau cynyddol ar y gwasanaeth iechyd cenedlaethol.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm very pleased to speak in this debate today, as Chair of the Finance Committee, on our inquiry into the cost of caring for an ageing population. And although I wasn't a member of the committee during the evidence sessions, I would like to thank everyone who contributed to those sessions, and to the previous Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care for his response to our report, and particularly for accepting our recommendations, either in full or in principle.

One of the six areas we covered in our inquiry, namely the fiscal levers available for funding social care, was debated in Plenary yesterday, of course, and so, I will focus on the five other levers in my contribution today. However, as I noted yesterday, I was disappointed that the Government didn’t feel able to work with the committee on the scheduling of their debate, to provide a more joined-up overview of the social care funding system. We heard stark evidence during the committee's inquiry that there was widespread confusion about the system that we have, and we were told that it would be impossible to create a more complex system even if one tried to do so. But fragmented debate on a fragmented system doesn’t help to bring the clarity that is so important in terms of this issue. So, I've made the point that we've missed an opportunity, and I know that the Trefnydd is here in another capacity and will respond to this debate as the Minister for Finance, but I just wanted to make the point that I'm more than willing to look at any more creative ways of using this place's time more effectively and more efficiently in future. 

Now, the committee heard that although spending on social care has been protected in relative terms, the spending per capita on people over 65 years old had decreased significantly, partly due to the increasing older population. The committee is concerned that, unless action is taken, continuing pressures on social care budgets from increased demand will result in a weaker service and inadequate provision for older people, ultimately.

Concerns over the growing pressures is further compounded by the reliance on the invaluable role played by the 370,000 unpaid or volunteer carers, a contribution that has been valued at over £8 billion per year to the Welsh economy. And I would like to acknowledge the vital role that they play and to reiterate our view that, despite the value of that contribution, depending on unpaid careers is not sustainable in the longer term. 

Our report emphasises our concern around whether the assessments that carers are entitled to under the social services Act are being carried out, and, where they're being carried out, whether needs are being assessed correctly. The support provided to carers is crucial, of course, and the committee was concerned by the approach to assessments. We recommended that the Welsh Government conduct a review of carers’ assessments to evaluate whether the social services and well-being Act is strengthening support to carers. And I’m pleased that this review began in November, and look forward to its conclusions.

The committee heard concerns too around financial and staffing pressures in the care sector. We were concerned to hear that, in some cases, providers of domiciliary care are responding by handing back contracts to local authorities as they are not financially viable on the fee levels paid. As is noted in our report, it is essential therefore that contracts issued by local authorities are realistic to avoid an increase in any unmet need that would in turn lead to increased pressure on the NHS.

Fe glywom ni am argyfwng wrth geisio recriwtio a chadw staff gofal cymdeithasol, ac roedd cyflog isel a chanfyddiad o statws cymdeithasol isel yn ffactorau a oedd yn cyfrannu at y sefyllfa yma. Mae'r sector gofal cymdeithasol, yn arbennig, yn agored i bwysau ychwanegol ar y gweithlu, gan fod cyfran uchel o'r staff eu hunain yn heneiddio. Ac rŷm ni hefyd yn pryderu'n arbennig ynghylch honiadau bod staff, ar ôl cael eu hyfforddi gan ddarparwyr gofal, yn cael eu colli i'r gwasanaeth iechyd cenedlaethol, neu i awdurdodau lleol, sydd, wrth gwrs, ag amodau gwaith a phecynnau cyflogaeth mwy deniadol i'r gweithwyr rheini. Yn ein hadroddiad ni, rŷm ni'n pwysleisio'r ffaith bod mynd i'r afael â materion yn ymwneud â'r gweithlu yn hanfodol er mwyn sicrhau cynaliadwyedd y system. Mae angen i bobl weld gofal cymdeithasol fel opsiwn gyrfa deniadol, a hynny er mwyn denu gweithwyr newydd, ac, wrth gwrs, er mwyn cadw staff profiadol. Ac mae'n rhaid i'r amodau gwaith yn y sector gofal fod yn gydradd â'r rhai sy'n cael eu cynnig i staff sy'n gweithio yn y gwasanaeth iechyd cenedlaethol, a hynny er mwyn dangos pa mor werthfawr yw'r rolau hyn. Felly, rŷm ni'n argymell bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn blaenoriaethu'r broses o ddatblygu strategaeth ar gyfer y gweithlu gofal cymdeithasol i fynd i'r afael â'r pryderon hyn. Ac mi ddylai hyn gynnwys cymryd camau i godi statws y rheini sy'n gweithio yn y sector gofal cymdeithasol, er mwyn sicrhau bod y rôl hon yn yrfa ddeniadol sydd yn denu cyflog priodol.

Rydw i'n falch bod yr argymhelliad hwn wedi'i dderbyn, a bod y Llywodraeth, yn ei hymateb, yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd sicrhau gweithlu gofal cymdeithasol cynaliadwy, ac rydw i'n croesawu ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth i roi gwelliannau ar waith. Ac mi fydd y pwyllgor yn edrych ar effeithiolrwydd y mesurau a weithredwyd yn ddiweddar, yn ogystal â'r rhai a gaiff eu cyflwyno yn nes ymlaen eleni, pan fyddwn ni'n cynnal ein hadolygiad o'r cynnydd sydd wedi cael ei wneud ar weithredu ein hargymhellion ni yn 2020.

Nawr, mae'r pwyllgor yn croesawu'r cynnydd yn y trothwy cyfalaf ar gyfer cyfraniadau o asedau mewn perthynas â gofal dibreswyl, ond rydym yn pryderu ynghylch a yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi darparu cyllid digonol i dalu am refeniw a gollwyd gan awdurdodau lleol. Rŷm ni'n croesawu'r cyhoeddiad diweddar, wrth gwrs, ynghylch y cynnydd terfynol a wnaed i gyrraedd trothwy o £50,000, yn ogystal â'r £7 miliwn ychwanegol a ddarperir i ariannu hyn. Ond, yn bwysicaf oll, rŷm ni'n croesawu'r ymrwymiad i fonitro, a hefyd i addasu'r cyllid hwn os yw e yn annigonol.

Er ein bod ni'n croesawu cynlluniau'r grŵp rhyngweinidogol ar dalu am ofal cymdeithasol ar gyfer ymgysylltu ag aelodau'r cyhoedd, er mwyn eu hysbysu nhw'n well ynglŷn â fframwaith y taliadau yn y flwyddyn sydd i ddod, mae'r pwyllgor yn pryderu am y diffyg ymwybyddiaeth cyffredinol sy'n bodoli o ran talu am ofal cymdeithasol i oedolion, ac yn benodol am y ffaith y gall y cymhlethdod sydd ynghlwm wrth y trefniadau presennol arwain at annhegwch mewn perthynas â'r rhai sy'n gymwys i gael cymorth ffurfiol a ariennir yn gyhoeddus.

Fel rhan o'n hymchwiliad, bu'r pwyllgor yn trafod opsiynau ar gyfer diwygio cyllidol, gan gynnwys y cynnig a wnaed gan yr Athro Gerry Holtham ar gyfer cyflwyno cynllun cyfrannol o yswiriant gorfodol. Nawr, rŷm ni'n croesawu'r gwaith a gomisiynwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i ddatblygu'r cynnig hwn fel cam cadarnhaol tuag at gydnabod y bydd angen i'r system bresennol newid er mwyn diwallu'r galw yn y dyfodol.

Mae'r pwyllgor yn ategu galwadau gan randdeiliaid am sgwrs genedlaethol am safon y gofal y mae'r cyhoedd yn awyddus i'w chael, cyn bod unrhyw benderfyniadau'n cael eu gwneud am y drefn gyllido yn y dyfodol. Felly, fe wnaethom ni argymell y dylai'r Llywodraeth ymgysylltu â'r cyhoedd ynglŷn â chyllid gofal cymdeithasol yn y dyfodol, a hynny er mwyn trafod yr hyn y byddai'r cyhoedd yn disgwyl ei gael yn gyfnewid am wneud unrhyw gyfraniadau ychwanegol. Yn benodol, fe wnaethom ni argymell, cyn cyflwyno ardoll i godi arian ychwanegol ar gyfer gofal cymdeithasol, y bydd angen i Lywodraeth Cymru gyfiawnhau sut y bydd unrhyw arian a godir yn cael ei ddefnyddio, a dangos sut y bydd yr arian hwn yn gwneud gwahaniaeth. Nawr, mi ddylai'r broses hon gynnwys egluro'r lefel o ofal y dylai'r cyhoedd ei disgwyl, gan ei bod hi'n annhebygol, wrth gwrs, y bydd y cyhoedd yn rhoi ei gefnogaeth os yw'r gofal a ddarperir yn parhau ar ei lefel bresennol. Ac mi oedd clywed sylwadau'r Gweinidog iechyd ynglŷn â'r angen yma am y sgwrs genedlaethol yma ddoe, wrth gwrs, yn galonogol i'r perwyl hwnnw.

Rydw i'n croesawu'r ffaith bod y Llywodraeth wedi derbyn argymhellion 7 ac 8 yn ein hadroddiad ni, ac yn benodol ei hymrwymiad i ddatblygu modelau cyllido arloesol, i sicrhau bod adnoddau ar gael i fodloni anghenion gofal cymdeithasol yn y dyfodol, a'i chydnabyddiaeth y bydd angen ymgysylltu cyhoeddus sylweddol cyn gwneud penderfyniadau.

Yn olaf, mae'r pwyllgor yn ymwybodol o gasgliadau'r adolygiad seneddol o iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Nawr, mi glywodd y pwyllgor fod y cynnig i sefydlu un system iechyd a gofal di-dor wedi'i groesawu'n fras, ond rŷm ni hefyd yn ymwybodol, wrth gwrs, o'r pryderon sy'n bodoli ynglŷn â'r ffaith bod gofal cymdeithasol weithiau'n cael ei weld fel gwasanaeth sinderela. Mi wnaeth y pwyllgor argymell bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn archwilio sut y gallai'r cynnig i sefydlu system iechyd a gofal di-dor, a argymhellir yn yr adolygiad seneddol, gyfuno cronfa ar gyfer gofal cymdeithasol â'r gwasanaeth iechyd cenedlaethol sydd am ddim, wrth gwrs, ar y pwynt cysylltu. Fe gafodd yr argymhelliad hwn ei dderbyn mewn egwyddor yn unig. Felly, mi fyddem ni yn croesawu rhagor o wybodaeth gan y Gweinidog ynghylch sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn rhagweld y bydd y syniad yma yn cael ei ddatblygu.

Mae'r gost o ofalu am boblogaeth sy'n heneiddio yn un o'r materion mwyaf a phwysicaf sy'n wynebu Cymru heddiw, ac mae'n galonogol bod y Llywodraeth yn derbyn ein holl argymhellion, ac eithrio un, yn llawn. Mae ymateb y Llywodraeth yn cyfeirio at weithgarwch amrywiol ar y pwnc, gan gynnwys creu grwpiau rhyngweinidogol, datblygu nifer o strategaethau hirdymor, cynnal ymgynghoriadau a chodi ymwybyddiaeth. Ac mae hyn i gyd, fel rydw i'n ei ddweud, yn galonogol, ac rŷm ni'n gobeithio gweld canlyniadau cadarnhaol yn sgil y mentrau yma pan fyddwn ni, wrth gwrs, yn adolygu'r holl argymhellion yn ein hadroddiad ni yn y flwyddyn 2020.

Fodd bynnag, mae yn hanfodol bod newidiadau yn cael eu gwneud. Mae angen gweithredu cadarn, a hynny ar frys, er mwyn dod o hyd i'r datrysiad gorau i Gymru ac er mwyn sicrhau y gall pobl Cymru weld cynnydd. Mae cost gofalu am boblogaeth sy'n heneiddio yn broblem na ddylai byth fod yn bell o'n meddyliau ni, ac mae'n broblem sy'n effeithio'n uniongyrchol neu'n anuniongyrchol ar bob un ohonom ni. Diolch. 

We heard of a crisis in the recruitment and retention of social care staff, with low pay and perceived low social status being contributory factors. The social care sector is especially susceptible to additional workforce pressures, as a high proportion of the staff themselves are ageing. And we are also particularly concerned about claims that staff, after being trained by care providers, are being lost to the NHS, or to local authorities, which, of course, have more attractive working conditions and employee packages. We emphasise in our report that addressing workforce issues is fundamental to ensuring the sustainability of the system. People need to see social care as an attractive career option in order to encourage new recruits, and to retain experienced staff. Working conditions in the social care sector must be on a par with those offered to staff in the national health service, in order to demonstrate how valuable these roles are. Therefore, we recommend that the Welsh Government prioritise the process of developing a strategy for the social care workforce, to address these concerns. And this should include taking action to raise the status of those working in the social care sector, in order to ensure that this in an attractive career option, which is appropriately remunerated.

I am pleased that this recommendation has been accepted, and that the Government, in its response, recognises the importance of ensuring a sustainable social care workforce, and I welcome the Government's commitment to delivering improvements. And the committee will look at the effectiveness of the measures implemented recently, as well as those being rolled out later this year, when we undertake our review of the progress made in implementing the recommendations in 2020.

Now, the committee welcomes the increase in the capital threshold for contributions to non-residential care from assets, but is concerned as to whether Welsh Government has provided sufficient funding to cover revenue lost by local authorities. We welcome the recent announcement, of course, on the final increase to a £50,000 threshold, as well as the additional £7 million to fund this, but, most importantly, we welcome the commitment to monitor and also to adjust this funding, should that prove to be inadequate.

Although we welcome the inter-ministerial group on paying for social care’s plans for public engagement to better inform the public of the charging framework in the coming year, the committee is concerned by the general lack of awareness around paying for adult social care, and particularly the fact that the complexity related to the current arrangements can lead to unfairness in respect of those eligible to receive publicly funded formal support.

As part of our inquiry, the committee considered options for fiscal reform, including the proposal made by Professor Gerry Holtham for a contributory scheme of compulsory insurance. Now, we welcome the work commissioned by the Welsh Government in developing this proposal as a positive step in acknowledging that the existing system will need to change to meet future demand.

The committee endorses calls made by stakeholders for a national conversation about the standard of the care that the public wants, before decisions about future funding are made. We therefore recommended that the Government should engage with the public about the future funding of social care, in order to discuss what the public would expect to receive in return for any additional contributions in the future. In particular, we recommended that, before introducing a levy to raise additional funding for social care, the Welsh Government will need to be able to justify how any funds raised will be used, and to demonstrate that this funding will make a difference. Now, this process should include explaining the level of care that the public should expect, since it's unlikely, of course, that the public will support this if the care provided remains as its current level. And listening to the comments of the health Minister about this national conversation yesterday, of course, was encouraging.

I welcome the Government’s acceptance of recommendations 7 and 8, and particularly its commitment to develop innovative funding models, to ensure resources are available to meet future social care needs, as well as its recognition that significant public engagement will be needed before decisions are made.

Finally, the committee is aware of the conclusions of the parliamentary review of health and social care in Wales. Now, the committee heard that the proposal for a single system of seamless health and care was broadly welcomed, but we're also aware, of course, of the concerns that exist that social care can sometimes be seen as a cinderella service. Now, the committee recommended that the Welsh Government explores how the proposal of a seamless health and care system, advocated in the review, could combine a fund for social care as well as the national health service, which would be free at the point of contact. This recommendation was accepted in principle only; therefore, we would be grateful for more information from the Minister as to how the Welsh Government envisages this idea developing. 

The cost of caring for an ageing population is one of the biggest and most important issues facing Wales today, and it is reassuring that the Government accepts all the recommendations, bar one, in full. The Government’s response refers to a variety of activity on the subject, including the creation of inter-ministerial groups, the multiple long-term strategies being developed, the consultations and awareness raising, all of which, of course, is encouraging, and we do hope to see positive outcomes from these initiatives when we review all of these recommendations in the year 2020.

However, it is vital that changes are made. Firm and urgent action is needed, in order to find the best solutions for Wales and in order to ensure that the people of Wales can see progress. The cost of caring for an ageing population is an issue that should never be far from our thoughts, and it's a problem that directly or indirectly affects us all. Thank you. 

15:40

I'm pleased to contribute to this debate and, indeed, to have been a member of the Finance Committee and to have taken part in the report of the Finance Committee review. It was a thought-provoking inquiry about an issue that, as the Chair of the committee has said, is of growing concern and should be of growing concern to all of us. As we've heard, the proportion of older people in Wales has been increasing over the last decade, and projections show that this trend will only continue. There are serious questions to be addressed with regard to the level of resources available to maintain services and the pressures upon them.

So, where do we go from here? This is what we tried to address in the report. Well, as has been said, Professor Gerry Holtham has suggested a common insurance fund to cover future costs of adult social care, and the committee looked at this, as well as other possible solutions, and I'll come on to those in a moment. 

First of all, if I can turn to some of our key recommendations, recommendation 1 calls on the Welsh Government to develop more targeted research, so that we have access to the most up-to-date and accurate data to base future projections on, and, as we know from experience, some of the limitations of Welsh-only data to date has been an issue for this Assembly. Recommendation 2 calls for a full review of carers' assessments and whether the Act has actually delivered stronger support for carers on the ground—its whole intention.

Now, our inquiry looked at the fragility of the provider market, and the evidence provided to us suggested that the market has been fragile for some considerable time, and this is leading to increasing in-sourcing by local authorities to try and reduce the risk exposure for the independent sector. Public Policy Institute for Wales highlighted to us how some providers are returning their contracts to local authorities, because they can't provide at the set fee level. So, whichever way you look at it, this is—over the longer term—an unsustainable situation. 

If I can just say a little bit about the workforce pressures and retention, the committee received a great deal of evidence that pointed to the difficulties in recruiting staff to the social care sector in the first place, and indeed subsequently retaining those staff. Care Forum Wales said that care workers can often earn more stacking shelves, unbelievably, than working in the sector, or that's the perception, at least, and that cannot be right. I'm pleased the Minister has committed to raising the profile of social care workers so that it can be seen as a more positive career choice, because that was certainly lacking from the evidence that we took from the sector. But we need to do more than that; it's more than just perception. We do need to retain those employees once they're recruited. 

Just moving on to the proposed social care levy that the Chair has mentioned and Professor Gerry Holtham's favoured solution and its key tenets. Those are contributions made as a proportion of income, with rates remaining constant throughout a person's life, although they would be higher the older a person is when they enter the scheme. Professor Holtham was quite honest and said that more work would need to be done on whether you would have a sliding scale, for instance, of contribution or a flat rate of, he suggested, 1.5 per cent. So, there are many variables.

Professor Holtham also admitted his suggestion that reversing the 20 per cent decline in spend per head of population, which he identified, may or may not be sufficient to tackle the problems that we face. He said that it might be better to talk in the region of 23 per cent at the higher end or 17 per cent at the lower end and that either of these may work, or they may not, and that a great deal more work would need to be done to find out exactly what level that would need to be set at.

There's also, of course the important issue of how you sell all this to the public. Do you refer to the new scheme as a levy—effectively a tax—or do you label it as compulsory insurance? Of course, even if you do the latter, it may come to be regarded as a tax anyway, so you may as well, in some cases, bite the bullet on that, but the public must know that there is a big problem here and they must be on our side in finding a way to tackle it.

Crucially, I think, this has to have cross-party support and be supported for the longer term. That's the only way that this will work and be accepted. You also have to have agreement on how to cover the costs for those who may not have made any significant contributions throughout their lives through illness or through not working for other reasons.

So, do we have a separate levy or incorporate it into the Welsh rate of income tax? That option will soon be open to the Welsh Government. The latter is a simpler, as the former finance Minister said, way of doing things and the structure is in place, but, again, the public may need to see clearly that the amount being collected is going towards their social care.

So, finally, the Minister said—or the former Cabinet Secretary, as he was—that a UK-wide solution would probably be the best solution and I can see his reasons for saying that. The costs are so great that spreading this across the UK would probably be beneficial. But that said, if this does ultimately fall to Wales to make headway on this issue, then so be it. This is an issue that cannot be ignored for any longer. It was a pretty bleak picture that the report painted, but there were also a number of solutions in there and I think we all have to look at that across parties to find a way to move forward that's acceptable to all of us here and also to the public at large.

Rwy'n falch o gyfrannu at y ddadl hon ac yn wir, o fod wedi bod yn aelod o'r Pwyllgor Cyllid a chymryd rhan yn adroddiad adolygiad y Pwyllgor Cyllid. Roedd yn ymchwiliad a ysgogai'r meddwl am fater sydd, fel y dywedodd Cadeirydd y pwyllgor, yn peri pryder cynyddol ac a ddylai beri pryder cynyddol i bob un ohonom. Fel y clywsom, mae cyfran y bobl hŷn yng Nghymru wedi bod yn cynyddu dros y degawd diwethaf, ac mae'r rhagolygon yn dangos y bydd y duedd hon yn parhau. Mae cwestiynau difrifol i'w hateb o ran y lefel o adnoddau sydd ar gael ar gyfer cynnal gwasanaethau a'r pwysau arnynt.

Felly, i ble yr awn oddi yma? Dyna y ceisiwyd ei ateb yn yr adroddiad. Wel, fel y dywedwyd, mae'r Athro Gerry Holtham wedi awgrymu cronfa yswiriant cyffredin i dalu am gostau gofal cymdeithasol i oedolion yn y dyfodol, ac edrychodd y pwyllgor ar hyn, yn ogystal ag atebion eraill posibl, a dof at y rheini mewn munud.

Yn gyntaf oll, hoffwn gyfeirio'n fyr at rai o'n prif argymhellion, ac mae argymhelliad 1 yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddatblygu mwy o ymchwil wedi'i dargedu, fel bod gennym y data mwyaf diweddar a manwl gywir ar gyfer seilio amcanestyniadau ar gyfer y dyfodol arnynt, ac fel y gwyddom o brofiad, hyd yma mae rhai o gyfyngiadau'r data ar Gymru yn unig wedi bod yn broblem i'r Cynulliad hwn. Mae argymhelliad 2 yn galw am adolygiad llawn o asesiadau gofalwyr ac i weld a yw'r Ddeddf wedi darparu cymorth mwy cadarn i ofalwyr ar lawr gwlad mewn gwirionedd—sef ei holl fwriad.

Nawr, edrychodd ein hymchwiliad ar natur fregus y farchnad ddarparwyr, ac roedd y dystiolaeth a ddarparwyd ar ein cyfer yn awgrymu bod y farchnad wedi bod yn fregus ers cryn dipyn, ac mae hyn yn arwain at gynyddu'r adnoddau mewnol a ddefnyddir gan awdurdodau lleol er mwyn ceisio lleihau'r risg i'r sector annibynnol. Nododd y Sefydliad Polisi Cyhoeddus i Gymru sut y mae rhai darparwyr yn dychwelyd eu contractau i awdurdodau lleol, am na allant ddarparu gwasanaethau ar lefel y ffi a osodwyd. Felly, pa ffordd bynnag yr edrychwch arni, mae hon—dros y tymor hwy—yn sefyllfa anghynaliadwy.

Os caf ddweud ychydig am y pwysau ar y gweithlu a chadw gweithwyr, cafodd y pwyllgor lawer o dystiolaeth a dynnai sylw at yr anawsterau i recriwtio staff i'r sector gofal cymdeithasol yn y lle cyntaf, a chadw'r staff hynny wedyn. Dywedodd Fforwm Gofal Cymru y gall gweithwyr gofal ennill mwy drwy lenwi silffoedd yn aml na thrwy weithio yn y sector, ac mae hynny'n anhygoel, neu dyna'r canfyddiad, o leiaf, ac ni all hynny fod yn iawn. Rwy'n falch fod y Gweinidog wedi ymrwymo i godi proffil gweithwyr gofal cymdeithasol fel y gellir ei weld fel dewis gyrfa mwy cadarnhaol, gan fod hynny'n sicr ar goll o'r dystiolaeth a gawsom gan y sector. Ond mae angen inni wneud mwy na hynny; mae'n fwy na chanfyddiad. Mae angen inni gadw'r gweithwyr hynny ar ôl eu recriwtio.

Gan symud ymlaen at yr ardoll gofal cymdeithasol arfaethedig y cyfeiriodd y Cadeirydd ati a'r ateb y mae'r Athro Gerry Holtham yn ei ffafrio a'i elfennau allweddol, sef cyfraniadau a wneir fel cyfran o incwm, gyda chyfraddau'n aros yn gyson drwy gydol oes yr unigolyn, er y byddent yn uwch po hynaf y bo'r unigolyn wrth ymuno â'r cynllun. Roedd yr Athro Holtham yn onest iawn a dywedodd y byddai angen gwneud rhagor o waith i weld a fyddai gennych raddfa symudol, er enghraifft, ar gyfer cyfrannu neu gyfradd sefydlog—awgrymodd 1.5 y cant. Felly, mae yna nifer o newidynnau.

Cyfaddefodd yr Athro Holtham hefyd nad oedd sicrwydd fod ei awgrym i wrthdroi'r dirywiad o 20 y cant a nododd yn y gwariant fesul y pen o'r boblogaeth yn ddigon i fynd i'r afael â'r problemau sy'n ein hwynebu. Dywedodd y gallai fod yn well sôn am oddeutu 23 y cant ar y pen uchaf neu 17 y cant ar y pen isaf ac y gallai'r naill neu'r llall o'r rhain weithio, neu beidio â gweithio, ac y byddai angen gwneud llawer iawn mwy o waith i ddarganfod ar ba lefel yn union y byddai angen ei osod.

Hefyd, wrth gwrs, mae'r cwestiwn pwysig ynglŷn â sut y mae gwerthu hyn oll i'r cyhoedd. A ydych yn cyfeirio at y cynllun newydd fel ardoll—treth i bob pwrpas—neu a ydych yn ei labelu fel yswiriant gorfodol? Wrth gwrs, hyd yn oed os gwnewch yr olaf, gallai ddod i gael ei hystyried fel treth beth bynnag, felly mewn rhai achosion o bosibl, waeth i chi fynd amdani ar hynny, ond rhaid i'r cyhoedd gael gwybod bod problem fawr yma a rhaid iddynt fod ar ein hochr ni o ran dod o hyd i ffordd o'i datrys.

Yn hollbwysig, rwy'n credu, rhaid i hyn gael cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol a hirdymor. Dyna'r unig ffordd y bydd hyn yn gweithio ac yn cael ei dderbyn. Hefyd, rhaid ichi gael cytundeb ynglŷn â sut i dalu costau'r rhai nad ydynt o bosibl wedi gwneud unrhyw gyfraniadau sylweddol ar hyd eu hoes o ganlyniad i salwch neu fethu gweithio am resymau eraill.

Felly, a ydym am gael ardoll ar wahân neu ei hymgorffori yng nghyfradd Cymru o'r dreth incwm? Bydd yr opsiwn hwnnw'n agored i Lywodraeth Cymru cyn bo hir. Mae'r olaf yn ffordd symlach o wneud pethau, fel y dywedodd y cyn-Weinidog cyllid, ac mae'r strwythur yn ei le, ond unwaith eto, efallai y bydd angen i'r cyhoedd weld yn glir fod y swm sy'n cael ei gasglu yn mynd tuag at eu gofal cymdeithasol.

Felly, yn olaf, dywedodd y Gweinidog—neu'r cyn-Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, fel yr oedd—mai ateb DU gyfan fyddai'r ateb gorau yn ôl pob tebyg a gallaf weld ei resymau dros ddweud hynny. Mae'r costau mor fawr fel y byddai lledaenu hyn ar draws y DU yn fanteisiol mae'n debyg. Ond wedi dweud hynny, os mai Cymru fydd yn arwain ar hyn yn y pen draw, boed hynny fel y bo. Mae hwn yn fater na ellir ei anwybyddu mwyach. Rhoddodd yr adroddiad ddarlun go llwm i ni, ond roedd yn cynnwys nifer o atebion hefyd a chredaf fod yn rhaid i ni i gyd edrych ar draws y pleidiau i ddod o hyd i ffordd o symud ymlaen sy'n dderbyniol i bawb ohonom yma ac i'r cyhoedd yn gyffredinol hefyd.

15:45

Rwy'n hapus iawn i gymryd rhan yn y ddadl yma er nad wyf yn aelod o'r Pwyllgor Cyllid, ond rydw i'n croesawu'r adroddiad a hefyd y gwaith cefndirol tu ôl iddo ac, wrth gwrs, fe wnaethom ni glywed y dadleuon yn ystod dadl y Llywodraeth ddoe. 

Mae'r system o ariannu beth sydd ar gael o dan ein system gofal cymdeithasol ni ar hyn o bryd—fel y mae'r Cadeirydd wedi ei olrhain—yn hynod gymhleth ac ni fyddai'n bosib dyfeisio system fwy cymhleth, hyd yn oed pe tasech yn trio, fel y dywedodd y Cadeirydd. Wedi dweud hynny, nid yw jest yn fater o arian. Fel y dywedais i ddoe, mae angen edrych yn gynhwysfawr ar yr her sylweddol o ddarparu gofal i'r henoed a thrio ei weld o mewn ochr bositif. Mae gennym ni gyfle i greu system gofal cymdeithasol genedlaethol yn fan hyn, achos rydw i'n credu bod angen newid y strwythur. Mae angen bod yn radical achos mae'n mynd i gymryd arian ac mae'n rhaid gallu darbwyllo'r cyhoedd bod yna system gwerth chweil, yn seiliedig ar yr un math o system â'r gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae pawb mewn cariad efo'r gwasanaeth iechyd, wel, beth am ailstrwythuro ein system gofal yr un peth â'n system gwasanaeth iechyd ni? Achos bydd yna fudd economaidd yn dod o hynny hefyd, yn darparu swyddi, cyflogau a hyfforddiant ac yn y blaen, yn union fel y gweithwyr yn y gwasanaeth iechyd, yn yr ardaloedd yna yng Nghymru sydd yn ei ffeindio hi'n anodd i gael swyddi ta beth, ac mae angen datblygu gwasanaeth gofal cymdeithasol fel datblygiad economaidd.

Achos, nid yw'r system, fel y dywedodd Nick Ramsay, yn gynaliadwy ar hyn o bryd. Mae'n rhaid cael rhyw syniad ymlaen ac nid jest meddwl am sut rydym yn mynd i ariannu system sydd yn ffaelu nawr. Achos, ar hyn o bryd, oherwydd cyfyngiadau ariannol ar wasanaethau cymdeithasol ein siroedd ni, codi y mae'r trothwy i bobl dderbyn gofal cyhoeddus bob blwyddyn rŵan. Rwy'n ei weld o o hyd: pobl hŷn efo sawl her gorfforol a chymdeithasol, maen nhw'n teilyngu derbyn gofal, ond eto, nid ydyn nhw'n cyrraedd y trothwy—trothwy sydd yn codi bob blwyddyn, y trothwy i gael y gofal am ddim oddi wrth y sir, achos, yn naturiol, nid yw'r arian yna. Rydw i’n gwybod beth mae pobl yn ei ddweud: 'Aha', mae pobl yn ei ddweud, 'talwch amdano fo, felly; talwch am eich gofal yn breifat, felly.' Dyna beth rydym ni’n ei glywed, a chlywsom ni e ddoe. Ond, wrth gwrs, nid yw hynny'n opsiwn i nifer fawr o'n pobl hŷn ni; nid ydyn nhw'n gallu talu, ac maen nhw'n mynd heb ddim gofal cyhoeddus, heb ddim gofal, a'r cwbl yn syrthio ar eich teulu, os ydych chi'n ddigon ffodus i ddal cael teulu. Dyna beth rydym ni weithiau yn anghofio.

Pam mae hyn yn bwysig? Wel, mae pobl yn marw achos y toriadau cyllid a diffyg darpariaeth gofal. Pobl yn marw. Bu adolygiad yn The British Medical Journal yn 2017 yn olrhain sefyllfa enbydus gofal yn Lloegr, lle mae cyllid gofal cymdeithasol wedi gorfod dioddef ergyd ddwbl. [Torri ar draws.] Nick.

I'm delighted to participate in this debate, although I am not a member of the Finance Committee, but I welcome the report and the background work underpinning it, and we heard the arguments in the Government’s debate yesterday.

The funding system for social care—as the Chair has already outlined—is very complex indeed and it wouldn't be possible to come up with a more complex system even if you tried, as the Chair said. Having said that, it's not just a matter of money. As I said yesterday, we need to look in the round at the significant challenge of providing elder care and to try and view it from a positive perspective. We have an opportunity to create a national care system here, because I do think we need to change the structure. We need to be radical because it is going to take funding and we have to convince the public that there is a valuable system, based on a similar system to the health service. Everyone loves the health service of course, well, why not structure our care service so that it becomes more similar to our health service? Because there will be economic gains from that too, in providing jobs, salaries, training and so on and so forth, just like the workers in the health service, in those areas of Wales that find it difficult to provide jobs in the first place, and we need to develop a social care service as an economic development tool.

Because the system, as Nick Ramsay said, is not sustainable at the moment. We must have some way forward and not just think about how we're going to fund an already failing system. Because, at the moment, given the financial limitations on social services within our county councils, the threshold for people to receive care is increasing annually. I see this constantly: older people facing a number of physical and social challenges, they deserve care, but they don't reach that threshold—a threshold that increases every year, the threshold to receive care free of charge from the county, because the funding simply isn't available. I know what people are saying. They're saying, 'Well, pay for it then; pay for your care privately.' That’s what I hear, and we heard that yesterday. But, of course, that isn't an option for very many of our older people; they can't pay, and they go without any publicly provided care, and without any care, and the entire burden falls on the family, if you're fortunate enough to still have family nearby. That’s what we sometimes forget.

Why is this important? Because people are dying because of these cuts in funding and a lack of care provision. People are dying as a result of this. There was a review in The British Medical Journal in 2017 outlining the appalling situation of care in England, where social care funding has suffered a double blow. [Interruption.] Nick.

15:50

Thanks for giving way, Dai. I agree with much of what you've just said. Do you agree with me that, during the course of the inquiry, it was ironic that Professor Holtham pointed out that when he looked at public opinion in Wales, it seemed to be that there was a lack of understanding, to a great degree, about the scale of the problem that we're facing? That shows how we really need to address this and get people to understand how we've all got to face this together.

Diolch am ildio, Dai. Cytunaf â llawer o'r hyn rydych newydd ei ddweud. A ydych yn cytuno â mi ei bod yn eironig, yn ystod yr ymchwiliad, fod yr Athro Holtham wedi nodi pan edrychodd ar y farn gyhoeddus yng Nghymru, ei bod hi'n ymddangos bod diffyg dealltwriaeth, i raddau helaeth, ynglŷn â maint y broblem sy'n ein hwynebu? Mae hynny'n dangos sut y mae angen gwirioneddol inni fynd i'r afael â hyn a chael pobl i ddeall sut y mae'n rhaid i bawb ohonom wynebu hyn gyda'n gilydd.

Ie, buaswn i'n cytuno 100 y cant, achos mae angen ad-drefnu; nid yw siarad am y peth yn ddigon. Mae yna system sydd yn ffaelu yn fan hyn. Rydym ni'n ei weld o'r ffigurau—roeddwn i'n mynd i'w ddweud—yn Lloegr, rŵan. Roedd yna adolygiad wedi cael ei wneud yn y BMJ ynglŷn â gofal a bod diffygion yn y system gofal yn Lloegr wedi arwain at 22,000 o farwolaethau uwchben y disgwyl. Hynny yw, 22,000 o farwolaethau ychwanegol bob blwyddyn yn Lloegr achos dim darpariaeth gofal. Felly, nid yw ceisio taflu ychydig rhagor o arian at system sydd yn ffaelu heb ad-drefniant sylweddol yn mynd i weithio. Wrth gwrs, os bydd y system gofal yn methu, yna bydd y gwasanaeth iechyd yn methu hefyd.

Nawr, fel y dywedais i ddoe, system ranedig, rhannol breifat, rhannol gyhoeddus a rhannol elusennol oedd iechyd cyn i Aneurin Bevan fynnu sefydlu gwasanaeth iechyd cynhwysfawr i arbed bywydau, achos roedd miloedd o bobl yn y 1930au ddim yn gallu cael mynediad at driniaeth gwasanaeth iechyd o gwbl. Dyna'r sefyllfa sy'n wynebu pobl efo gofal heddiw ac mae angen gofal cymdeithasol, felly, yn teilyngu'r un un ateb, hynny yw, cael system genedlaethol, gynhwysfawr o ofal. Diolch yn fawr.

Yes, I would agree 100 per cent, because we need restructuring; just talking about the funding isn't enough. We have a failing system here. We see it from the figures—as I was just going to say—in England. There was a review carried out in the BMJ on care in England, and that the problems in the care system in England had led to 22,000 deaths above what would have been expected. That’s 22,000 additional deaths annually in England because there was no care provision available. So, trying to throw some more money at a failing system without a substantial reform is not going to work and, of course, if our care system fails, then the health service will fail too.

Now, as I said yesterday, we have a partly private system, partly public system, and partly charitable. That’s what health was before Aneurin Bevan insisted on the establishment of a comprehensive national health service to save lives, because thousands of people in the 1930s couldn't access health service treatments at all. That is the situation facing people with care today and the needs of social care, therefore, deserve the same solution as health, namely a national comprehensive care service. Thank you.

Not being a member of the committee, I was not involved in the deliberations leading to this report, but I would like to thank the Finance Committee for their carefully-thought-out report on the cost of caring for an ageing population. Advances in health and social care enable all of us to live longer and healthier lives. Coupled with an increase in population, it is not surprising that the issue of paying for it is coming to the fore and that is why the committee's report, together with the independent report by Professor Gerald Holtham, which we debated yesterday, are entirely timely.

If we look at the current spending, we see that it has, in fact, decreased by 14 per cent between 2009-2010 and 2016-17 as services focus on supporting people with higher levels of need. This means that there are more people with perhaps less acute care needs who are receiving care in their own homes. Of course, it may be that a spouse or partner is providing that care. So, when we look at funding social care, we must give very careful consideration to carers themselves, particularly family members who are providing care for their loved one. In fact, there are around 370,000 informal carers in Wales. We hear many stories of these carers missing their own medical appointments or social activities because of their caring responsibilities. Young carers in particular need our support, and I know that Members from all sides of the Chamber would wish to pay tribute to the work that all carers do on a daily basis. I am pleased, therefore, that the Government has accepted the committee's recommendation that they review whether the assessment that carers are entitled to under the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 is being carried out, and whether those needs are being assessed correctly. 

Turning to the demands on the social care system, the ratio of over-70s to those aged 20 to 69 is going to rise by the early 2040s from 23 per cent to 37 per cent. So, that's a 50 per cent increase within the population—and perhaps I ought to confess a degree of guilt for that statistic myself. The demand for spending on social care is projected to rise by over 85 per cent by 2035, at 2016-17 prices, so that's a 20 per cent increase in spending per head and an increase in numbers requiring care of over 55 per cent. These figures highlight clearly the need to face up to the long-term realities of funding social care. For too long we haven't really grappled with this issue enough. As the committee have stated, the evidence shows that funding pressures along with an increase in population are resulting in a funding shortfall. This is further complicated by the complex arrangements associated with paying for care, which often lead to unfairness.

Of course, there has been much debate about the prospect of a social care levy, and the committee have given this very careful consideration. I'm pleased to see that one of the recommendations is that the Welsh Government would need to be able to justify how any funds raised will be used and be able to demonstrate that it will make a difference. This should include explaining what level of care the public could expect in return for their contributions, since it is unlikely that they would support proposals to pay more if the level of care is the same as at present. Before we consider any new taxes, for that is in effect what the levy would be, the public need to be sure that they are getting something that is quid pro quo, and certainly we on these benches would not be able to support a new levy unless and until it is fully justifiable to the taxpayer.

A point my colleague Neil Hamilton made during the committee's deliberations is that we also need to radically improve productivity and efficiency in the health sector. We must ensure that people are able to see their GP when they need to. This would reduce A&E attendances and hospital admissions. Getting people discharged from hospital more quickly and back into their homes, with suitable adaptations and care packages, will also help to reduce the long-term burden on the social care sector. 

The Minister previously announced a falls response project, in conjunction with St John Ambulance, to deal with some of the pressures on the NHS over the winter. We should look at all of these types of projects to evaluate their benefits on social care. To be fair to them, the Welsh Government have already undertaken some excellent work in this area, but to meet the challenges of the future, we must do more. 

Finally, we need to deal with population growth, and that means having a migration policy that suits our national economic interests. We must therefore have proper border controls so that we can truly assess those who have a desperate and proper need for asylum, but with stricter controls on those who come here for economic reasons, and who will, inevitably, put yet more pressure on our already overburdened health and social care system.

Gan nad wyf yn aelod o'r pwyllgor, nid oeddwn yn rhan o'r trafodaethau a arweiniodd at yr adroddiad hwn, ond hoffwn ddiolch i'r Pwyllgor Cyllid am eu hadroddiad gofalus a thrylwyr ar gost gofalu am boblogaeth sy'n heneiddio. Mae datblygiadau mewn iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn galluogi pawb ohonom i fyw bywydau hirach ac iachach. Ynghyd â chynnydd yn y boblogaeth, nid yw'n syndod fod mater talu amdano'n codi ei ben a dyna pam y mae adroddiad y pwyllgor, ynghyd â'r adroddiad annibynnol gan yr Athro Gerald Holtham, a drafodwyd gennym ddoe, yn gwbl amserol.

Os edrychwn ar y gwariant cyfredol, gwelwn ei fod wedi gostwng 14 y cant mewn gwirionedd rhwng 2009-2010 a 2016-17 wrth i wasanaethau ganolbwyntio ar gefnogi pobl â lefelau uwch o angen. Mae hyn yn golygu bod yna fwy o bobl ag anghenion gofal llai acíwt o bosibl sy'n cael gofal yn eu cartrefi eu hunain. Wrth gwrs, mae'n bosibl mai priod neu bartner sy'n darparu'r gofal hwnnw. Felly, pan fyddwn yn edrych ar ariannu gofal cymdeithasol, rhaid inni roi ystyriaeth ofalus iawn i'r gofalwyr eu hunain, yn enwedig aelodau o'r teulu sy'n darparu gofal ar gyfer eu hanwyliaid. Yn wir, ceir oddeutu 370,000 o ofalwyr anffurfiol yng Nghymru. Rydym yn clywed llawer o straeon am y gofalwyr hyn yn methu eu hapwyntiadau meddygol eu hunain neu weithgareddau cymdeithasol oherwydd eu cyfrifoldebau gofalu. Mae gofalwyr ifanc yn arbennig angen ein cymorth, a gwn y byddai Aelodau ar bob ochr i'r Siambr yn dymuno talu teyrnged i'r gwaith y mae pob gofalwr yn ei wneud yn ddyddiol. Rwy'n falch, felly, fod y Llywodraeth wedi derbyn argymhelliad y pwyllgor y dylai gynnal adolygiad i weld a yw'r asesiad y mae gan ofalwyr hawl iddo o dan Ddeddf Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a Llesiant (Cymru) 2014 yn cael ei gyflawni, ac a yw'r anghenion hynny'n cael eu hasesu'n gywir.

Gan droi at y galwadau ar y system gofal cymdeithasol, mae'r gymhareb rhwng nifer y bobl dros 70 oed a rhai 20 i 69 oed yn mynd i gynyddu erbyn y 2040au cynnar o 23 y cant i 37 y cant. Felly, dyna gynnydd o 50 y cant o fewn y boblogaeth—ac efallai y dylwn gyffesu rhywfaint o euogrwydd ynglŷn â'r ystadegyn hwnnw fy hun. Rhagwelir y bydd y galw am wariant ar ofal cymdeithasol yn codi dros 85 y cant erbyn 2035, ar brisiau 2016-17, felly dyna gynnydd o 20 y cant yn y gwariant y pen a chynnydd o dros 55 y cant yn y niferoedd sydd angen gofal. Mae'r ffigurau hyn yn amlygu'n glir yr angen i wynebu realiti hirdymor ariannu gofal cymdeithasol. Ers gormod o amser, nid ydym wedi mynd i'r afael â hyn yn ddigonol. Fel y nododd y pwyllgor, dengys y dystiolaeth fod pwysau ariannu ynghyd â chynnydd yn y boblogaeth yn arwain at ddiffyg ariannol. Cymhlethir hyn ymhellach gan y trefniadau cymhleth sy'n gysylltiedig â thalu am ofal, sy'n aml yn arwain at annhegwch.

Wrth gwrs, bu llawer o ddadlau ynghylch y posibilrwydd o ardoll gofal cymdeithasol, ac mae'r pwyllgor hwn wedi ystyried hyn yn ofalus iawn. Rwy'n falch o weld mai un o'r argymhellion yw y byddai angen i Lywodraeth Cymru allu cyfiawnhau sut y defnyddir unrhyw arian a godir a gallu dangos y bydd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth. Dylai hyn gynnwys esbonio pa lefel o ofal y gallai'r cyhoedd ei disgwyl yn gyfnewid am eu cyfraniadau, gan ei bod yn annhebygol y byddent yn cefnogi argymhellion i dalu mwy os yw lefel y gofal yr un fath â'r hyn ydyw ar hyn o bryd. Cyn inni ystyried unrhyw drethi newydd, gan mai dyna fyddai'r ardoll newydd mewn gwirionedd, mae angen i'r cyhoedd fod yn sicr eu bod yn cael rhywbeth sy'n quid pro quo, ac yn sicr, ni fyddem ni ar y meinciau hyn yn gallu cefnogi ardoll newydd oni bai a hyd nes y gellir ei chyfiawnhau'n llawn i'r trethdalwr.

Pwynt a wnaeth fy nghyd-Aelod, Neil Hamilton, yn ystod trafodaethau'r pwyllgor yw bod angen inni hefyd wella cynhyrchiant ac effeithlonrwydd yn sylweddol yn y sector iechyd. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod pobl yn gallu gweld eu meddyg teulu pan fo angen. Byddai hyn yn lleihau nifer yr achosion brys a derbyniadau i'r ysbyty. Bydd sicrhau bod pobl yn cael eu rhyddhau o'r ysbyty'n gyflymach ac yn ôl i'w cartrefi, gydag addasiadau a phecynnau gofal addas, hefyd yn helpu i leihau'r baich hirdymor ar y sector gofal cymdeithasol.

Mae'r Gweinidog wedi cyhoeddi prosiect ymateb i gwympiadau o'r blaen ar y cyd ag Ambiwlans Sant Ioan, i ymdrin â pheth o'r pwysau ar y GIG dros y gaeaf. Dylem edrych ar bob un o'r mathau hyn o brosiectau er mwyn gwerthuso eu budd i ofal cymdeithasol. A bod yn deg â hwy, mae Llywodraeth Cymru eisoes wedi gwneud peth gwaith rhagorol yn y maes hwn, ond rhaid inni wneud rhagor er mwyn goresgyn heriau'r dyfodol.

Yn olaf, mae angen inni ymdrin â thwf yn y boblogaeth, ac mae hynny'n golygu cael polisi mewnfudo sy'n addas ar gyfer ein buddiannau economaidd cenedlaethol. Felly rhaid inni gael mesurau rheoli ffiniau priodol fel y gallwn asesu'n iawn pa bobl sydd ag angen dybryd a phriodol am loches, ond gyda mesurau rheoli llymach ar gyfer y rhai sy'n dod yma am resymau economaidd, ac a fydd, yn anochel, yn rhoi mwy fyth o bwysau ar ein system iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol sydd eisoes dan bwysau gormodol.

15:55

As the Chair's foreword to this report states,

'Much of the evidence referred to the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 and whilst witnesses were generally supportive of the Act, there was some concern over the application of eligibility criteria, the undertaking of carers’ assessments and the variation in fees across local authorities. What was also clear was the unexpected costs associated with the Act'.

In its response, the Welsh Government states that its

'programme for transforming health and social care is set out in detail in A Healthier Wales'

and that it commenced a three-year

'evaluation of the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act, to explore the implementation of the Act and the impact on those who receive care and support, including unpaid carers,'

in November 2018.

When I accepted an invitation to work with the last Welsh Government to incorporate proposals within my withdrawn Community Care (Direct Payments) Wales Bill, the subsequent Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 code of practice put in place a system where people are full partners in the design and operation of care and support, giving people clear and unambiguous rights and responsibilities. It states that assessing the needs of individuals should be based on the principles of co-production, ensuring that it involves a relationship where practitioners and individuals share the power to plan and deliver support together, and recognising that all partners have vital contributions to make in helping to meet identified personal outcomes. And the ways of working that the public bodies listed in the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 must demonstrate also include working with others, including third sector bodies and communities, to help achieve goals that have been decided together.

However, a series of reports have indicated that the legislation is not being implemented as envisaged, that the better lives and reduced costs intended are not being delivered, and that urgent intervention is required accordingly. Last winter’s Age Alliance Wales newsletter stated that

'Third sector representatives on Regional Partnership Boards have reported feeling excluded, or at least not fully engaged',

and that the third sector has been seen as a bit-part player, with little or no strategic involvement in the integrated care fund and little input into programme planning. Despite their subsequent engagement with the then Minister regarding this, I'm reliably informed that this continues.

Last March’s evaluation of the integrated autism service commissioned by the Welsh Government found that although

'the focus upon co-production and prevention is expected to help improve effectiveness and reduce demand'

and

'success requires a co-productive approach involving staff, service users and carers in the design, implementation and evaluation of the service',

there are concerns that the top-down approach has stifled this. Only last Friday I attended a meeting with Flintshire council and members of the local autism community to discuss the north Wales integrated autism service hosted by the council, the needs of autistic service users and working together better going forward.

Last November's analysis by mental health charity Hafal of the Welsh Government’s 'A Healthier Wales' plan stated that it

'fails a test of indicating how things might actually change for individual consumers as opposed to providers',

that

'it's an example of policy made by providers for providers'

and that whilst the provider viewpoint should be respected,

'it is just one perspective and should be wholly subsidiary to that of consumers'.

The results of the survey conducted by the Wales Neurological Alliance on behalf of the cross-party group on neurological conditions, 'The Social Services and Wellbeing Wales Act—experiences of people living with a neurological condition', published last month, found that although the Act has been in force for two years, people living with neurological conditions are not being asked what matters to them, are not being made aware of their rights to an assessment, are not getting information about support and advice services, and are having to pay out of their own pocket for support.

Shockingly, the survey even found that guidance with this Act has been used to prohibit the direct payments that have successfully provided quality person-centred care previously. And only last week, hospices providing key front-line services told me that although health boards are expected to submit their three-year palliative care plans to the Welsh Government by the end of January, their health board has not engaged with them at all.

This is the harsh reality, and it demands urgent action to address the unnecessarily damaged lives and wasted resources resulting from this. 

Fel y mae rhagair y Cadeirydd i'r adroddiad hwn yn datgan,

'Roedd llawer o'r dystiolaeth yn cyfeirio at Ddeddf Gwasanaethau
Cymdeithasol a Llesiant (Cymru) 2014, ac er bod y tystion, ar y cyfan, yn gefnogol i'r Ddeddf, roedd peth pryder ynghylch cymhwyso'r meini prawf cymhwyster, cynnal asesiadau gofalwyr a'r amrywiad yn y ffioedd rhwng awdurdodau lleol. Yr hyn a ddaeth yn glir hefyd oedd bod costau annisgwyl yn gysylltiedig â'r Ddeddf.'

Yn ei hymateb, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn nodi

'Manylir ar ein rhaglen i drawsnewid iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn
Cymru Iachach'

a'i bod wedi dechrau ar werthusiad tair blynedd

'[o Dd]eddf Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a Llesiant (Cymru) 2014, i archwilio rhoi’r Ddeddf ar waith a’r effaith ar y sawl sy’n derbyn gofal a chymorth, gan gynnwys gofalwyr di-dâl,'

ym mis Tachwedd 2018.

Pan dderbyniais wahoddiad i weithio gyda'r Llywodraeth Cymru ddiwethaf i ymgorffori cynigion yn fy Mil Gofal Cymunedol (Taliadau Uniongyrchol) Cymru a dynnwyd yn ôl, gosododd cod ymarfer Deddf Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a Llesiant (Cymru) 2014 a'i dilynodd system ar waith lle y mae pobl yn bartneriaid llawn yn y gwaith o gynllunio a gweithredu gofal a chymorth, gan roi hawliau a chyfrifoldebau clir a diamwys i bobl. Mae'n nodi y dylai'r broses o asesu anghenion unigolion fod yn seiliedig ar egwyddorion cydgynhyrchu, gan sicrhau ei fod yn cynnwys perthynas lle y mae ymarferwyr ac unigolion yn rhannu pŵer i gynllunio a darparu cymorth gyda'i gilydd, ac yn cydnabod bod gan bob partner gyfraniadau allweddol i'w gwneud wrth helpu i gyflawni canlyniadau personol a nodwyd. Mae'r ffyrdd o weithio sy'n rhaid i'r cyrff cyhoeddus a restrwyd yn Neddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015 eu harddangos hefyd yn cynnwys gweithio gydag eraill, yn cynnwys cyrff trydydd sector a chymunedau, er mwyn helpu i gyflawni nodau y penderfynwyd arnynt ar y cyd.

Fodd bynnag, mae cyfres o adroddiadau wedi dynodi nad yw'r ddeddfwriaeth yn cael ei gweithredu fel y rhagwelwyd, nad yw'r bywydau gwell a'r costau is a fwriadwyd yn cael eu gwireddu, a bod angen ymyrryd ar frys yn unol â hynny. Nododd cylchlythyr Cynghrair Henoed Cymru ar gyfer y gaeaf diwethaf fod

cynrychiolwyr trydydd sector ar Fyrddau Partneriaeth Rhanbarthol wedi adrodd eu bod yn teimlo wedi'u heithrio, neu, fan lleiaf, nad oes ganddynt ran lawn yn y gwaith,

a bod y trydydd sector wedi cael ei weld fel elfen sydd ond yn chwarae rhan fach yn y gwaith, heb fawr o ymwneud strategol os o gwbl yn y gronfa gofal integredig a fawr ddim mewnbwn i'r broses o gynllunio rhaglen. Er gwaethaf eu gwaith ymgysylltu dilynol gyda'r Gweinidog ar y pryd ar hyn, rwy'n deall bod hyn yn parhau.

Canfu'r gwerthusiad fis Mawrth diwethaf o'r gwasanaeth awtistiaeth integredig a gomisiynwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru, er bod disgwyl

'i'r pwyslais ar gydgynhyrchu ac atal helpu i wella effeithiolrwydd a
lleihau'r galw'

a bod

'llwyddiant yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol cael dull cydgynhyrchiol sy'n cynnwys staff, defnyddwyr gwasanaethau a gofalwyr wrth gynllunio, gweithredu a gwerthuso'r Gwasanaeth'

ceir pryderon fod y dull o'r brig i lawr wedi llesteirio hyn. Ddydd Gwener diwethaf, mynychais gyfarfod gyda chyngor Sir y Fflint ac aelodau o'r gymuned awtistiaeth leol i drafod gwasanaeth awtistiaeth integredig gogledd Cymru a ddarperir gan y cyngor, anghenion defnyddwyr y gwasanaeth awtistiaeth a gweithio gyda'n gilydd yn well yn y dyfodol.

Nododd dadansoddiad fis Tachwedd diwethaf gan yr elusen iechyd meddwl Hafal o gynllun 'Cymru Iachach' Llywodraeth Cymru

'mae’n methu’r prawf os ydych yn ystyried yr hyn sydd yn medru newid i gwsmeriaid unigol yn hytrach na’r darparwyr gwasanaeth',

ei fod

'yn enghraifft o bolisi sydd wedi ei lunio ar gyfer darparwyr gan ddarparwyr'

ac er y dylid parchu barn y darparwyr,

'dyma un persbectif yn unig a dylai gael ei ystyried ar ôl ystyried barn y cwsmeriaid'.

Gwelodd canlyniadau'r arolwg a gynhaliwyd gan Gynghrair Niwrolegol Cymru ar ran y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar gyflyrau niwrolegol, 'The Social Services and Wellbeing Wales Act—experiences of people living with a neurological condition', a gyhoeddwyd fis diwethaf, er bod y Ddeddf wedi bod mewn grym ers dwy flynedd, nad oes neb yn gofyn i bobl sy'n byw gyda chyflyrau niwrolegol beth sydd o bwys iddynt hwy, nid ydynt yn cael gwybod am eu hawliau i gael asesiad, nid ydynt yn cael gwybodaeth am wasanaethau cymorth a chyngor, ac maent yn gorfod talu o'u pocedi eu hunain am gymorth.

Yn gywilyddus, canfu'r arolwg hyd yn oed fod canllawiau gyda'r Ddeddf hon wedi'u defnyddio i wahardd y taliadau uniongyrchol sydd wedi llwyddo'n flaenorol i ddarparu gofal o ansawdd sy'n canolbwyntio ar yr unigolyn. A'r wythnos diwethaf,  er bod disgwyl i fyrddau iechyd gyflwyno'u cynlluniau gofal lliniarol tair blynedd i Lywodraeth Cymru erbyn diwedd mis Ionawr, dywedodd hosbisau sy'n darparu gwasanaethau rheng flaen allweddol wrthyf nad yw eu bwrdd iechyd wedi ymgysylltu â hwy o gwbl.

Dyma'r realiti creulon, ac mae'n galw am weithredu ar frys i fynd i'r afael â'r bywydau sydd wedi'u difrodi'n ddiangen a'r adnoddau a wastraffwyd o ganlyniad i hyn.

16:00

Can I now call on the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd, Rebecca Evans?

A gaf fi alw yn awr ar y Gweinidog Cyllid a'r Trefnydd, Rebecca Evans?

Thank you. I thank the Finance Committee for undertaking what is a really important inquiry, because the way that a society treats its older people is very much a reflection of its values, and I do commend the committee for choosing this particular important area to consider. There's a real focus in the committee's report on aspects of social care policy, and we've heard lots of those just now in Mark Isherwood's contribution, as well as on the important wider financial challenges of caring for an older population. I'm really pleased that the Welsh Government has been able to respond positively to the suite of recommendations in the report. I put on record my gratitude to the former Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care for his work on this particular agenda.

The Welsh Government is already making some demonstrable progress on improving the vital care and support that older people require. We're committed to making Wales the best country in which to grow old and, as was highlighted during the inquiry, we're reshaping the way that care and support is delivered so that this vision does become a reality. 

Diolch. Diolch i'r Pwyllgor Cyllid am gynnal yr ymchwiliad pwysig hwn, oherwydd mae'r modd y mae cymdeithas yn trin ei phobl hŷn yn adlewyrchiad sicr o'i gwerthoedd, ac rwy'n canmol y pwyllgor am ddewis y maes pwysig hwn i'w ystyried. Ceir ffocws pendant yn adroddiad y pwyllgor ar agweddau ar y polisi gofal cymdeithasol, ac rydym wedi clywed llawer o'r rheini yn awr yng nghyfraniad Mark Isherwood, yn ogystal ag ar yr heriau ariannol ehangach pwysig o ofalu am boblogaeth hŷn. Rwy'n falch iawn fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gallu ymateb yn gadarnhaol i'r gyfres o argymhellion yn yr adroddiad. Hoffwn gofnodi fy niolch i'r Gweinidog Plant, Pobl Hŷn a Gofal Cymdeithasol am ei waith ar yr agenda benodol hon.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru eisoes yn gwneud cynnydd amlwg ar wella'r gofal a'r cymorth hanfodol sydd ei angen ar bobl hŷn. Rydym yn ymrwymedig i wneud Cymru y wlad orau ar gyfer tyfu'n hen ynddi ac fel yr amlygwyd yn ystod yr ymchwiliad, rydym yn ail-lunio'r ffordd y darperir gofal a chymorth er mwyn gwireddu'r weledigaeth hon.

With this in mind, I'll briefly set out the work that's being undertaken in the key areas that the committee highlighted in its report, building, of course, on the issues raised in the debate on the Holtham report on paying for care, led by my colleague the health Minister yesterday, which outlines one potential way forward.

Informal carers, so those family members and friends who provide care on an ongoing basis, play a vital role in supporting people in later life, and I think Dai Lloyd's contribution in particular reminded us very powerfully of that. 

The committee's recommendation to conduct a review of carers' assessments is being undertaken through an evaluation of the impact of our social services and well-being Act. This commenced in November and it will include engagement with carers themselves. It will consider what impact the Act is having on informal carers and what has changed since the Act come into effect. It will identify to what extent the Act is facilitating the critical support they require to continue caring and also whether any further improvements will be necessary. In addition, we're undertaking a major publicity drive to raise awareness of the Act, a particular strand of which will be to ensure that informal carers are aware of their rights and are encouraged to seek information and a carers' assessment where they might require them.

Without an appropriately trained and experienced social care workforce, any attempt to implement improvements or raise quality are doomed, and I think this was well recognised in the chair of the committee's contribution. The committee fully recognised this in recommending that we prioritised the development of a strategy for the social care workforce. The Welsh Government committed to this in 'A Healthier Wales: our Plan for Health and Social Care', with a range of workforce improvement measures being implemented. These include regulations to improve terms and conditions by reducing the use of zero-hours contracts, a suite of health and social care qualifications to provide a clear career pathway, and rolling out registration to reflect our commitment to professionalise the workforce.

High on our agenda is the long-term funding of social care, which is core to its sustainability. The committee emphasised the growing demand for care that we could see in the future from an ageing population and the challenge that this poses. Due to this very challenge, we prioritised social care in our strategy 'Prosperity for All', which commits to developing innovative funding models to meet anticipated demand. You'll know from yesterday's debate of our commitment to explore options for new Welsh taxes, including a potential social care levy, to raise additional funding. These proposals form the basis of the work of our inter-ministerial group on paying for social care, established last summer and tasked with providing the policy perspective to these financial considerations. Its work is at an early stage but we will continue at pace this year to enable an informed judgment on the viability of a levy, for example, and whether this would realise the benefits that we envisage.

I think that Nick Ramsay's contribution in particular outlined just how challenging this agenda is and how big some of the questions are that we have to grapple with, and I completely agree with Nick that a good way forward is one that would develop some kind of cross-party consensus, because this is a challenge that will be facing all of us, regardless of our parties. And I know that the health secretary and I are both very keen to listen to other parties and their ideas and explore the way forward together. And I have to say as well that I do welcome the way and the spirit in which Members are engaging in what is a really important agenda.

So, alongside this we'll be engaging with the public regarding their views on paying for care and its implications for them. And as the committee rightly recommended, we need to undertake such engagement, and will shortly consider a proposal to undertake an awareness-raising campaign to ensure that people understand the importance of social care and the system that is currently in place. And the Chair of the committee referred in his speech to the widespread confusion that currently exists in terms of paying for care.

I think this piece of work will pave the way for a more targeted engagement on the options to raise additional funding as these options unfold, and, certainly, Mark Isherwood reminded us of the importance of putting the individual at the heart of these decisions. 

Finally, to pick up on a specific recommendation, I'm pleased to confirm the completion of our 'Taking Wales Forward' commitment to increase the capital that those in residential care can retain without having to pay for their care. This was to raise the figure from £24,000 to £50,000 within this Assembly term. This amount is currently at £40,000 and we intend to raise it to the full £50,000 from April. To support the implementation of this, we've announced a further £7 million a year in the local government settlement from 2019-20, taking the overall implementation funding provided to £18.5 million a year. As the committee recommended, we will continue monitoring to ensure that this funding is sufficient to enable authorities to fulfil their social care obligations, and I look forward to continuing the discussions that we've had over the past two days. Thank you.

Gyda hyn mewn golwg, fe nodaf yn fyr y gwaith a wneir yn y meysydd allweddol a gafodd sylw gan y pwyllgor yn ei adroddiad, gan adeiladu, wrth gwrs, ar y materion a godwyd yn y ddadl ar adroddiad Holtham ar dalu am ofal, a arweiniwyd gan fy nghyd-Aelod y Gweinidog iechyd ddoe, sy'n amlinellu un ffordd bosibl ymlaen.

Mae gofalwyr anffurfiol, yr aelodau teuluol a'r ffrindiau sy'n darparu gofal ar sail barhaus, yn chwarae rôl hanfodol wrth gefnogi pobl yn ddiweddarach mewn bywyd, a chredaf fod cyfraniad Dai Lloyd yn arbennig wedi ein hatgoffa o hynny'n rymus iawn.

Cyflawnir argymhelliad y pwyllgor i gynnal adolygiad o asesiadau gofalwyr drwy werthusiad o effaith ein Deddf gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a llesiant. Dechreuodd hwn ym mis Tachwedd a bydd yn cynnwys ymgysylltu â gofalwyr eu hunain. Bydd yn ystyried pa effaith y mae'r Ddeddf yn ei chael ar ofalwyr anffurfiol a beth sydd wedi newid ers i'r Ddeddf ddod i rym. Bydd yn nodi i ba raddau y mae'r Ddeddf yn hwyluso'r cymorth hanfodol sydd ei angen arnynt i barhau i ofalu ac a fydd angen unrhyw welliannau pellach. Yn ogystal, rydym yn cynnal ymgyrch gyhoeddusrwydd fawr i godi ymwybyddiaeth o'r Ddeddf, ac elfen benodol ohoni fydd sicrhau bod gofalwyr anffurfiol yn ymwybodol o'u hawliau ac yn cael eu hannog i ofyn am wybodaeth ac asesiad gofalwyr lle y gallai fod angen amdano.

Heb weithlu gofal cymdeithasol profiadol wedi'i hyfforddi'n briodol, bydd unrhyw ymgais i weithredu gwelliannau neu wella ansawdd yn ofer, a chredaf fod cyfraniad cadeirydd y pwyllgor wedi cydnabod hyn yn dda. Roedd y pwyllgor yn cydnabod hyn yn llawn wrth argymell ein bod yn blaenoriaethu'r gwaith o ddatblygu strategaeth ar gyfer y gweithlu gofal cymdeithasol. Ymrwymodd Llywodraeth Cymru i hyn yn 'Cymru Iachach: ein Cynllun Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol', a gweithredu amrywiaeth o fesurau gwella'r gweithlu. Mae'r rhain yn cynnwys rheoliadau i wella telerau ac amodau drwy leihau'r defnydd o gontractau dim oriau, cyfres o gymwysterau iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol i ddarparu llwybr gyrfa clir, a chyflwyno cofrestru i adlewyrchu ein hymrwymiad i broffesiynoli'r gweithlu.

Yn uchel ar ein hagenda, mae cyllid hirdymor ar gyfer gofal cymdeithasol, sy'n ganolog i'w gynaliadwyedd. Pwysleisiodd y pwyllgor y galw cynyddol am ofal y gallem ei weld yn y dyfodol gan boblogaeth sy'n heneiddio a'r her y mae hyn yn ei chreu. Oherwydd yr her hon, rydym wedi blaenoriaethu gofal cymdeithasol yn ein strategaeth 'Ffyniant i Bawb', sy'n ymrwymo i ddatblygu modelau ariannu arloesol i ateb y galw disgwyliedig. Fe fyddwch yn gwybod o'r ddadl ddoe am ein hymrwymiad i archwilio opsiynau ar gyfer trethi newydd yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys ardoll gofal cymdeithasol bosibl, i godi arian ychwanegol. Yr argymhellion hyn sy'n sail i waith ein grŵp rhyng-weinidogol ar dalu am ofal cymdeithasol, a sefydlwyd yr haf diwethaf a'i orchwyl yw darparu'r safbwynt polisi i'r ystyriaethau ariannol hyn. Mae ei waith ar gam cynnar ond byddwn yn mynd ati'n gyflym eleni i sicrhau safbwynt gwybodus ar hyfywedd ardoll, er enghraifft, ac a allai wireddu'r manteision a ragwelwn.

Credaf fod cyfraniad Nick Ramsay yn benodol wedi amlinellu pa mor heriol yw'r agenda hon a pha mor fawr yw rhai o'r cwestiynau sy'n rhaid inni fynd i'r afael â hwy, ac rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â Nick y byddai datblygu rhyw fath o gonsensws trawsbleidiol yn ffordd dda ymlaen, oherwydd mae hon yn her a fydd yn wynebu pob un ohonom, ni waeth beth yw ein pleidiau. A gwn fod yr ysgrifennydd iechyd a minnau'n awyddus iawn i wrando ar y pleidiau eraill a'u syniadau ac edrych gyda'n gilydd ar y ffordd ymlaen. A rhaid imi ddweud hefyd fy mod yn croesawu'r ffordd y mae'r Aelodau'n ymwneud â'r agenda wirioneddol bwysig hon.

Felly, ochr yn ochr â hyn byddwn yn ymgysylltu â'r cyhoedd ynglŷn â'u safbwyntiau ar dalu am ofal a goblygiadau hynny iddynt hwy. Ac fel yr argymhellodd y pwyllgor yn briodol, mae angen inni gynnal ymgysylltiad o'r fath, ac yn fuan byddwn yn ystyried cynnig i gynnal ymgyrch i godi ymwybyddiaeth er mwyn sicrhau bod pobl yn deall pwysigrwydd gofal cymdeithasol a'r system sydd ar waith ar hyn o bryd. A chyfeiriodd Cadeirydd y pwyllgor yn ei araith at y dryswch cyffredinol sy'n bodoli ar hyn o bryd mewn perthynas â thalu am ofal.

Credaf y bydd y gwaith hwn yn paratoi'r ffordd ar gyfer ymgysylltiad wedi'i dargedu ar yr opsiynau i godi arian ychwanegol wrth i'r opsiynau hyn ddatblygu, ac yn sicr, cawsom ein hatgoffa gan Mark Isherwood o bwysigrwydd rhoi'r unigolyn wrth wraidd y penderfyniadau hyn.

Yn olaf, mewn ymateb i un argymhelliad penodol, rwy'n falch o gadarnhau bod ein hymrwymiad yn 'Symud Cymru Ymlaen' i gynyddu'r cyfalaf y gall pobl mewn gofal preswyl ei gadw heb orfod talu am eu gofal wedi'i gwblhau. Ymrwymiad ydoedd i godi'r ffigur o £24,000 i £50,000 yn ystod tymor y Cynulliad hwn. Ar hyn o bryd mae'r swm yn £40,000 a bwriadwn ei godi i'r £50,000 llawn o fis Ebrill ymlaen. I helpu i weithredu hyn, rydym wedi cyhoeddi £7 miliwn y flwyddyn pellach yn y setliad llywodraeth leol o 2019-20, gan gynyddu'r cyllid gweithredu cyffredinol a ddarperir i i £18.5 miliwn y flwyddyn. Fel yr argymhellodd y pwyllgor, byddwn yn parhau i fonitro er mwyn sicrhau bod yr arian hwn yn ddigon i alluogi awdurdodau i gyflawni eu dyletswyddau gofal cymdeithasol, ac edrychaf ymlaen at barhau'r trafodaethau a gawsom dros y ddeuddydd diwethaf. Diolch.

16:10

Thank you. Can I now call on Llyr Gruffydd to reply to the debate?

Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar Llyr Gruffydd i ymateb i'r ddadl?

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. A gaf i ddiolch i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu? Ni wnaf gyfeirio at bob cyfraniad, maddeuwch i fi, ond fe wnaf jest ategu un neu ddau o'r pwyntiau sydd wedi cael eu gwneud. Yn sicr, yng nghyfraniad Nick Ramsay, roedd y cyfeiriad at lefel y cyflogau o fewn y sector yn cymharu â rhai yn stacio silffoedd, rydw i'n meddwl, yn tanlinellu lle mae'r sector yn y cyd-destun hynny ar hyn o bryd. Ac, wrth gwrs, yn ei hymateb, mi wnaeth y Gweinidog gyfeirio at rai pethau mae'r Llywodraeth yn eu gwneud i edrych ar dermau ac amgylchiadau cyflogaeth o'r fath. Wrth gwrs, y llinell waelod yw bydd pobl eisiau gweld cynnydd yn eu pecyn cyflog. Tan fod hynny'n digwydd, mae'n debyg y bydd hi'n anodd iawn dangos i'r bobl sy'n gweithio yn y sector yna fod cymdeithas yn gwerthfawrogi'r cyfraniad y maen nhw yn ei wneud. 

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Could I thank everyone who has contributed to the debate? I won’t refer to every contribution, please forgive me, but I’ll just endorse a couple of the points that have been made. Certainly, in the contribution made by Nick Ramsay, the reference to the level of salaries within the sector compared to those stacking shelves—I think that is one that does underline where the sector is in that context at present. And, of course, in her response, the Minister did refer to some things that the Government is doing to look at terms and conditions of that kind of employment. The bottom line, of course, is that people will want to see an increase in salary, and until that happens it will be very difficult to show the people who work in the sector that society does value the contribution that they make.

Nick mentioned the references that were highlighted during our work around the need for a UK-wide resolution, and I think that probably reflects the view of the committee or its preference in that respect, but, of course, if that isn't forthcoming then we need to get on with it and do it ourselves. I'm hopeful that the Government is of the same belief, because, as Nick said, we're in an unsustainable situation in the long term, although I think the long term isn't as long as some people think or hope it might be. 

David Rowlands reminded us of the young to old people ratio that's changing fast, and that, of course, is demanding a big response from our health and social care services. It's for us, therefore, to find a way of delivering those services. Mark Isherwood reminded us as well of the value and the opportunities that come from a co-productive approach, of which I'm sure the national conversation could be the start of. 

Soniodd Nick am y cyfeiriadau a nodwyd yn ystod ein gwaith ynghylch yr angen am ateb ar sail y DU gyfan, ac mae'n debyg fod hynny'n adlewyrchu barn y pwyllgor neu ei ddewis yn hynny o beth, ond wrth gwrs, os nad yw hynny'n digwydd rhaid inni fwrw iddi a'i wneud ein hunain. Rwy'n obeithiol fod y Llywodraeth o'r un farn, oherwydd, fel y dywedodd Nick, rydym mewn sefyllfa anghynaliadwy yn y tymor hir, er y credaf nad yw'r tymor hir mor hir ag y mae rhai pobl yn ei feddwl neu'n ei obeithio.

Cawsom ein hatgoffa gan David Rowlands am y gymhareb rhwng pobl ifanc a phobl hen sy'n newid yn gyflym, ac mae hynny, wrth gwrs, yn galw am ymateb mawr gan ein gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol. Mater i ni, felly, yw dod o hyd i ffordd o ddarparu'r gwasanaethau hynny. Cawsom ein hatgoffa gan Mark Isherwood hefyd o'r gwerth a'r cyfleoedd a ddaw o'r dull cydgynhyrchiol, ac rwy'n siŵr y gallai'r sgwrs genedlaethol fod yn ddechrau ar hynny.

Rydw i eisiau diolch i Dai Lloyd hefyd am ei gyfraniad y prynhawn yma. Mae yna gyfle yn y fan hyn, fel roedd Dai yn ei awgrymu, inni fod yn uchelgeisiol ac yn arloesol. Mae eisiau dangos yr un uchelgais, yr un arloesedd a'r un dewrder a welwyd adeg creu y gwasanaeth iechyd cenedlaethol. Nid taflu arian at system sy'n methu yw'r ateb, fel dywedodd Dai. Mae angen newid y system hefyd fel bod gennym ni gyfundrefn fwy cynaliadwy. 

Rydw i felly eisiau diolch i'r Aelodau a gyfrannodd i'r ddadl yma. Diolch hefyd i dîm clercio’r pwyllgor a phawb roddodd dystiolaeth i ni fel rhan o'r broses yma. Rydw i'n falch bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn pob un o'r naw argymhelliad a wnaed, naill ai'n llawn neu mewn egwyddor. Mae yna gonsensws, rydw i'n siŵr o hynny, fod angen gweithredu'n awr—bod yr amser wedi dod nawr inni fynd i'r afael â'r sefyllfa yma unwaith ac am byth. 

Rydw i eisiau cloi drwy ategu'r gydnabyddiaeth rŷm ni fel pwyllgor eisiau rhoi i'r gofalwyr gwirfoddol allan yn fanna—y glud sy'n dal y gwasanaeth yma at ei gilydd. Mae'r ddibyniaeth yn drom iawn arnyn nhw, ond mae'r ddibyniaeth yna hefyd, wrth gwrs, yn peri risg i gynaliadwyedd y ddarpariaeth gofal cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Rŷm ni wedi clywed am y pryderon ynghylch pwysau ar y gweithlu. Rŷm ni wedi clywed yr heriau sydd o'n blaenau ni.

A gaf i ddiolch i chi i gyd? A gaf i ddweud ei fod wedi bod yn ymateb calonogol gan y Llywodraeth? Ond, wrth gwrs, mae angen i'r holl weithgarwch yma nawr sydd yn digwydd arwain at ganlyniadau pendant a newidiadau go iawn i gyfundrefn ariannu sydd, rydw i'n meddwl y gallwn ni i gyd gytuno, yn rhedeg allan o amser. Diolch.

I also want to thank Dai Lloyd for his contribution this afternoon. There is an opportunity here, as Dai suggested, for us to be ambitious and to be innovative. We need to show the same ambition, the same innovation and the same bravery and courage that we saw when the NHS was created, and not throw money at a failing system. That’s not the answer, as Dai said. We need to change the system as well so that we have a more sustainable system.

So, I want to thank the Members who contributed to this debate and I also want to thank the clerking team of the committee and everyone who gave us evidence as part of this process. I’m very pleased that the Welsh Government has accepted all of the nine recommendations that were made, either fully or in principle. There is a consensus, I’m sure of that, that we need to act now and that the time has come for us to tackle this situation once and for all.

I want to close by echoing the recognition that we as a committee want to give to the voluntary carers out there—the glue that holds the service together. The reliance on them is very heavy, but is does cause a risk to the sustainability of social care provision in Wales. We’ve heard about the concerns about pressures on the workforce. We’ve heard about the challenges facing us.

Could I thank you all and could I say that it has been an encouraging response by the Government? But, of course, all of this activity now that is happening needs to lead to results and changes to a funding system that, I think we can all agree, is running out of time. Thank you.

Thank you. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with standing Order 12.36.

Diolch. Y cynnig yw nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

6. Dadl ar Adroddiad Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau: Cyflwr y Ffyrdd yng Nghymru
6. Debate on the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee Report: State of the Roads in Wales

Item 6 on our agenda this afternoon is a debate on the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee report, 'The State of Roads in Wales'. I call on the Chair of that committee to move the motion—Russell George.

Eitem 6 ar ein hagenda y prynhawn yma yw dadl ar adroddiad Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau, 'Cyflwr y Ffyrdd yng Nghymru'. Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor hwnnw i wneud y cynnig—Russell George.

16:15

Cynnig NDM6907 Russell George

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

Yn nodi adroddiad Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau, 'Cyflwr y Ffyrdd yng Nghymru', a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 24 Hydref 2018.

Motion NDM6907 Russell George

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee, 'The State of Roads in Wales', which was laid in the Table Office on 24 October 2018.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Dangoswyd cyflwyniad clyweledol i gyd-fynd â’r drafodaeth.

An audio-visual presentation was shown to accompany the debate. 

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. I move the motion in my name. The condition of Wales's roads is a matter of great importance to all of us. Whether we drive, cycle, or take the bus, we're all road users in one way or another. The everyday things that sustain us, including much of our food, are, of course, transported via the roads.

In addition to the importance to us all as part of our lives, the road network is one of the nation’s greatest assets also, worth an estimated £13.5 billion, and covers over 21,000 miles. Our inquiry has looked in detail at how we maintain our roads, how we improve them, and whether this approach meets the expectations the Welsh Government has set itself in the laws it has passed.

Committee members were mindful of how much the public talk about the state of our roads, so we were keen to enable people to contribute to our work. We therefore held a photographic competition to encourage people from all parts of Wales to submit images that represent the network. The images we received are playing on the screens here in the Chamber, and covered a wide range—some funny, some sweeping landscapes and some pothole-ridden tarmac.

The Minister will recall that he accepted many, but not all, of our recommendations. One of the sobering aspects of this inquiry has been how many of the issues raised in previous studies remain difficult. There is an overwhelming consensus that long-term funding for local government and trunk road agencies would lead to improvements, yet we remain stuck in an annual cycle. Twelve months ago, in a statement on the future of Transport for Wales, the then Cabinet Secretary said that he had:

'committed to a five-year programme of transport capital funding through Transport for Wales.'

He claimed that this would lead to 15 to 20 per cent efficiencies. 

The committee recommended that the five-year funding model that was being applied to Transport for Wales—or rather is—is also applied to local authorities. However, the Government has rejected that call. While saying that it's sympathetic to such calls, the formal response sets out a number of reasons why this is difficult right now. It refers to the fact that local authorities receive funding from a range of sources, not just the Welsh Government. It also cities uncertainty around the planned UK Government spending review, combined with austerity and Brexit. While it commits to working with local government to provide

‘indicative information to inform their forward planning’,

it’s unclear how this funding uncertainty affects the five-year programme of capital funding committed for Transport for Wales, so I hope the Minister will be able to clarify why the two bodies see such a different approach.

If there was one key thing to take away from our report—one recommendation we considered in detail—it was this one, recommendation 12:

'The forthcoming Wales Transport Strategy should set a clear priority for maintaining the existing road network, mainstreaming and upgrading active travel infrastructure, and prioritising access, in preference to building new roads.'

I am disappointed that the Government rejected this recommendation.

Now, we know that money is tight, and we know that there is a strain on the current network and there's a strain on the cost of maintaining it, but we also know that investing and maintaining saves money in the longer term. The committee and the Minister have indicated the need for greater spending on active travel infrastructure. It seems unlikely that this will be possible on any scale without re-prioritising the spend within the transport budget. In addition to these financial reasons, there is the pressure provided by the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 to consider the wider impacts of investment. More roads equals more traffic, equals more pollution.

I should make clear that I—my views and the committee's views—. I’m not saying that we don’t build new roads. That's not what we’re saying at all—far from it. We're about to see the opening of the Newtown bypass in my own constituency—a massive infrastructure project much needed for many, many years. There are cases where roads need to be moved, or addressing pinch points would be the best possible solution. So, our recommendation is about a focus on the other activities, rather than saying, 'Don't build new roads'. [Interruption.] Yes, of course. 

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n gwneud y cynnig yn fy enw i. Mae cyflwr y ffyrdd yng Nghymru yn fater o bwys mawr i bob un ohonom. Pa un a fyddwn yn gyrru, yn seiclo, neu'n mynd ar y bws, mae pawb ohonom yn defnyddio'r ffyrdd mewn rhyw ffordd neu'i gilydd. Caiff y pethau bob dydd sy'n ein cynnal, yn cynnwys llawer o'n bwyd, eu cludo ar hyd y ffyrdd wrth gwrs.

Yn ychwanegol at ei bwysigrwydd i ni i gyd fel rhan o'n bywydau, mae'r rhwydwaith ffyrdd hefyd yn un o asedau mwyaf y wlad, sy'n werth oddeutu £13.5 biliwn, ac yn ymestyn dros 21,000 milltir. Mae ein hymchwiliad wedi edrych yn fanwl ar sut rydym yn cynnal ein ffyrdd, sut rydym yn eu gwella, ac a yw'r modd y gwneir hynny yn ateb y disgwyliadau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'u gosod iddi ei hun yn y deddfau y mae wedi eu pasio.

Roedd aelodau'r pwyllgor yn ymwybodol o faint o siarad a wneir gan y cyhoedd am gyflwr ein ffyrdd, felly roeddem yn awyddus i alluogi pobl i gyfrannu at ein gwaith. Felly, cynhaliwyd cystadleuaeth ffotograffig i annog pobl o bob rhan o Gymru i gyflwyno lluniau sy'n cynrychioli'r rhwydwaith. Mae'r lluniau a ddaeth i law i'w gweld ar y sgriniau yma yn y Siambr, ac roeddent yn cynnwys amrywiaeth eang—rhai'n ddoniol, rhai tirweddau ysgubol a rhai enghreifftiau o darmac yn llawn o dyllau.

Bydd y Gweinidog yn cofio ei fod wedi derbyn llawer, ond nid pob un, o'n hargymhellion. Un o'r agweddau sobreiddiol ar yr ymchwiliad hwn yw cymaint o'r materion a godwyd mewn astudiaethau blaenorol sy'n parhau i fod yn anodd. Ceir consensws aruthrol y byddai cyllid hirdymor ar gyfer llywodraeth leol ac asiantaethau cefnffyrdd yn arwain at welliannau, ac eto rydym yn dal yn sownd mewn cylch blynyddol. Ddeuddeg mis yn ôl, mewn datganiad ar ddyfodol Trafnidiaeth Cymru, dywedodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ar y pryd ei fod:

wedi ymrwymo i raglen bum mlynedd o gyllid cyfalaf trafnidiaeth drwy Trafnidiaeth Cymru.

Honnodd y byddai hyn yn arwain at 15 i 20 y cant o arbedion effeithlonrwydd.

Argymhellodd y pwyllgor fod y model ariannu pum mlynedd a oedd yn cael ei gymhwyso ar gyfer Trafnidiaeth Cymru—neu'n hytrach, sy'n cael ei gymhwyso—hefyd yn gymwys ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol. Fodd bynnag, mae'r Llywodraeth wedi gwrthod yr alwad honno. Er ei bod yn dweud ei bod yn cydymdeimlo â galwadau o'r fath, mae'r ymateb ffurfiol yn nodi nifer o resymau pam y mae hyn yn anodd ar hyn o bryd. Mae'n cyfeirio at y ffaith bod awdurdodau lleol yn cael cyllid o amrywiaeth o ffynonellau, nid Llywodraeth Cymru'n unig. Mae hefyd yn nodi ansicrwydd ynghylch adolygiad o wariant arfaethedig Llywodraeth y DU, ynghyd â'r cyni ariannol a Brexit. Er ei bod yn ymrwymo i weithio gyda llywodraeth leol i ddarparu

'gwybodaeth fynegol... i lywio blaengynllunio ariannol',

nid yw'n glir sut y mae'r ansicrwydd hwn ynglŷn ag ariannu'n effeithio ar y rhaglen bum mlynedd o gyllid cyfalaf a addawyd ar gyfer Trafnidiaeth Cymru, felly rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog yn gallu egluro pam y mae'r ddau gorff yn gweld dulliau mor wahanol o weithredu.

Os oes un peth allweddol yn deillio o'n hadroddiad—un argymhelliad a ystyriwyd yn fanwl gennym—argymhelliad 12 yw hwnnw:

'Dylai’r strategaeth arfaethedig, Strategaeth Drafnidiaeth Cymru, bennu blaenoriaeth glir ar gyfer cynnal y rhwydwaith ffyrdd presennol,
prif-ffrydio ac uwchraddio’r seilwaith teithio llesol, a blaenoriaethu mynediad, yn
hytrach nag adeiladu ffyrdd newydd.'

Rwy'n siomedig fod y Llywodraeth wedi gwrthod yr argymhelliad hwn.

Nawr, gwyddom fod arian yn dynn, a gwyddom fod pwysau ar y rhwydwaith presennol a straen ar y gost o'i gynnal, ond rydym hefyd yn gwybod y bydd buddsoddi a chynnal a chadw yn arbed arian yn fwy hirdymor. Mae'r pwyllgor a'r Gweinidog wedi dangos yr angen am fwy o wariant ar seilwaith teithio llesol. Mae'n ymddangos yn annhebygol y bydd hyn yn bosibl ar unrhyw raddfa heb ail-flaenoriaethu'r gwariant o fewn y gyllideb drafnidiaeth. Yn ogystal â'r rhesymau ariannol hyn, mae pwysau o du Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015 i ystyried effeithiau ehangach buddsoddi. Mae rhagor o ffyrdd yn golygu rhagor o draffig, a rhagor o lygredd.

Dylwn egluro bod gennyf—mae fy safbwyntiau a barn y pwyllgor—. Nid wyf yn dweud y dylem beidio ag adeiladu ffyrdd newydd. Nid dyna rydym yn ei ddweud o gwbl—dim o gwbl. Rydym ar fin gweld ffordd osgoi'r Drenewydd yn fy etholaeth yn cael ei hagor—prosiect seilwaith enfawr mawr ei angen ers llawer iawn o flynyddoedd. Ceir achosion lle y mae angen symud ffyrdd, neu lle y byddai mynd i'r afael â mannau cyfyng yn ateb gorau posibl. Felly, mae ein hargymhelliad yn ymwneud â ffocws ar y gweithgareddau eraill, yn hytrach na dweud, 'Peidiwch ag adeiladu ffyrdd newydd'. [Torri ar draws.] Wrth gwrs.

16:20

Thank you very much, Russell, for giving way. It's an important point, particularly in respect of the Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013, which he mentioned. When it was passed back in 2013, it talked about making walking and cycling the most natural way of getting about in Wales but, of course, we know that when roadworks are done on existing road infrastructure, it's very often the walkers and the cyclists that are the forgotten ones, the most inconvenienced. It tends to be the cycle paths that tend to be used as the overspill from the roadworks and they're blocked—there's no diversion, no alternatives taking their place. Despite the fact that Welsh Government has made it clear that it wants that to happen, it doesn't seem to happen. And I think one of the—. I'm interested in whether the committee looked at this aspect of whether the delivery guidance for the design guidance under the Act properly addressed this issue because, surely, if we're trying to promote active travel and make this the most natural country in which to walk and cycle, then, when we do any roadworks, new or old, we want to make sure that the cycle lanes and the walkways are still there, and we're not pushing people out into the middle of traffic or into a field. 

Diolch yn fawr iawn am ildio, Russell. Mae'n bwynt pwysig, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â Deddf Teithio Llesol (Cymru) 2013, y cyfeiriodd ati. Pan gafodd ei phasio yn 2013, soniai am wneud cerdded a beicio y ffordd fwyaf naturiol o symud o gwmpas yng Nghymru ond wrth gwrs, pan wneir gwaith ffordd ar seilwaith ffyrdd sy'n bodoli'n barod, yn aml iawn gwyddom mai'r cerddwyr a'r beicwyr yw'r rhai sy'n cael eu hanghofio, y rhai sy'n wynebu'r anghyfleustra mwyaf. Y llwybrau beicio sy'n tueddu i gael eu defnyddio fel y gorlif o'r gwaith ffordd a chânt eu blocio—nid oes gwyriad, na dewisiadau eraill i gymryd eu lle. Er bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi dweud yn glir ei bod am i hynny ddigwydd, nid yw i'w weld yn digwydd. A chredaf mai un o'r—. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb mewn gwybod a edrychodd y pwyllgor ar yr agwedd hon i weld a wnaeth y canllawiau darparu ar gyfer y canllawiau cynllunio o dan y Ddeddf fynd ati'n briodol i ddatrys y mater hwn oherwydd, yn sicr, os ydym yn ceisio hybu teithio llesol a gwneud hon y wlad fwyaf naturiol i gerdded a beicio ynddi, pan fyddwn yn gwneud unrhyw waith ffordd, ar ffyrdd newydd neu hen, rydym am wneud yn siŵr fod y lonydd beicio a'r llwybrau cerdded yn dal yno, ac nad ydym yn gwthio pobl allan i ganol traffig neu i mewn i gae.

Well, as it happens, we did look into that in a separate piece of work that we did last year in regard to active travel. We actually undertook our own survey of users that asked, 'What stops you from cycling or using paths?' and it was, indeed, the state of roads. And I think that is in line with what you're saying, so I very much agree with that point; I think it's a point well made. 

The committee made a number of recommendations that I’m pleased to say have been accepted, and these include exploring the potential of apps to provide real-time feedback on road conditions, improving the transparency and availability of highway asset management plans, creating a panel of experts to advise on best practice in road mending, and limiting the cases where it might be prudent to use the mutual investment model of public-private financing. On the latter note, the Chair of the Finance Committee wrote to me earlier this week responding to our concerns about the mutual investment model, and I was pleased to read that they will be doing a wider piece of work on capital funding during the coming year that will consider these issues.

I anticipate lots of contributions today, as lots of us will receive e-mails and letters about the state of roads in our own regions and constituencies, so I look forward to hearing what others have to say this afternoon. 

Wel, fel mae'n digwydd, fe edrychwyd ar hynny mewn gwaith arall a wnaethom y llynedd mewn perthynas â theithio llesol. Fe gynaliasom ein harolwg ein hunain o ddefnyddwyr a oedd yn gofyn, 'Beth sy'n eich rhwystro rhag beicio neu ddefnyddio llwybrau?' ac yn wir, cyflwr y ffyrdd oedd yr ateb. Ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n cyd-fynd â'r hyn rydych yn ei ddweud, felly rwy'n cytuno gyda'r pwynt hwnnw; credaf ei fod yn bwynt da.

Gwnaeth y pwyllgor nifer o argymhellion rwy'n falch o ddweud eu bod wedi'u derbyn, ac mae'r rhain yn cynnwys ymchwilio i'r posibilrwydd o apiau i ddarparu adborth amser real ar gyflwr ffyrdd, gwella tryloywder ac argaeledd cynlluniau rheoli asedau priffyrdd, creu panel o arbenigwyr i roi cyngor ar arferion gorau ym maes atgyweirio ffyrdd, a chyfyngu ar nifer yr achosion lle y gallai fod yn ddoeth i ddefnyddio'r model buddsoddi cydfuddiannol o ariannu cyhoeddus-preifat. Ar y nodyn olaf, ysgrifennodd Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cyllid ataf yn gynharach yr wythnos hon yn ymateb i'n pryderon am y model buddsoddi cydfuddiannol, ac roeddwn yn falch o ddarllen y byddant yn gwneud gwaith ehangach ar gyllid cyfalaf yn ystod y flwyddyn i ddod i ystyried y materion hyn.

Rwy'n rhagweld llawer o gyfraniadau heddiw, gan y bydd llawer ohonom wedi cael negeseuon e-bost a llythyrau ynglŷn â chyflwr y ffyrdd yn ein rhanbarthau a'n hetholaethau, felly edrychaf ymlaen at glywed yr hyn sydd gan eraill i'w ddweud y prynhawn yma.

In Wales, we have just under 35,000 km of roads. Most people's journeys involve the use of the road network, a figure that has been static since records began in the 1950s. We also rely on roads for a high proportion of our domestic freight. Across the UK, Cycling UK’s 'Fill that Hole' website notes an average of 13,500 potholes reported annually. Both of these statistics indicate something of the scale of the challenge before us, and they also show that the condition of our roads is a topic of concern to many Welsh citizens, a point that the Chair of our committee, Russell George, has already noted. 

For my contribution to today’s debate, I want to focus on three recommendations in particular, and it's disappointing that all of these have been rejected by the Welsh Government. So, I would hope the Minister in his response could look at how the evidence we received may be taken on board. First, recommendation 3: now, this was about incentivising local authorities to invest in maintenance. In my own local authority of Rhondda Cynon Taf, plans were recently approved to invest a further £23.5 million over the next three years. A sustained focus on improving the highway network means that, since 2011-12, the percentage of classified roads requiring attention there has shrunk by two thirds.

I want to commend the council for their hard work in improving the road network, which has seen the completion of over 1,000 carriageway schemes. I welcome the Welsh Government's substantial funding to local councils over a four-year period for road maintenance. However, I hope the Minister could outline how he will best work with councils to ensure that this remains a priority. I'm very conscious that it's all well and good residents of one authority having well-maintained roads, but what if they travel to another authority where the situation is very different? Maintenance of roads in one authority is perhaps the service that can most affect residents living in another. So, we need to make sure that we adopt a joined-up approach to this issue.

Secondly, recommendation 4: now, this is about looking at a five-year model for support for councils. Key here is the capacity for long-term planning at all levels. I do accept the Minister's reasoning and note that, where possible, funding has been provided on a longer term basis. For example, I alluded to the £60 million pothole fund allocated to authorities over a three-year basis. I mentioned that councils can make long-term plans, as in the case of Rhondda Cynon Taf and its three-year model.

I think the more positive response to recommendation 6 addresses some of our concerns. With the continuing pressure of austerity, we need to ensure that we make the right long-term decisions that deliver the right long-term solutions. That's better than quick short-term fixes, which only lead to further cost overall. I look forward to the publication of the five-year maintenance plan referred to in due course.

Finally, recommendation 8: at its core, this is around clarity and prioritisation of road infrastructure improvements, and explaining, when timescales slip, why this is the case. I think this is vitally important. One of the sources of greatest frustration to my constituents has been the delays in completing the dualling of the A465 Heads of the Valleys road between Hirwaun and Abergavenny. Now, the need for improvements to that three-lane very dangerous stretch of road were identified nearly three decades ago. The slippage in the time frame on this long-promised project, often without clear answers why or when, has left a bitter taste. I would say it's no coincidence that my party has struggled to hold the council seat in the ward of Hirwaun, one of only two seats that we've failed to hold in the Cynon Valley.

Similarly, whatever Members' views on the M4 relief road, questions about the timescale there have not benefited anyone. I think it's important to note the sense of frustration may not be just about road replacement projects. It also affects public transport improvements too. I welcome the Welsh Government’s commitment to review whether greater clarity can be given as to the stages of development within the national transport finance plan. I hope that this can be made as clear as possible so politicians and the communities we represent all have the right information. Thank you.

Yng Nghymru, mae gennym ychydig o dan 35,000 km o ffyrdd. Mae teithiau'r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn cynnwys y defnydd o'r rhwydwaith ffyrdd, ffigur sydd wedi bod yn sefydlog ers i gofnodion ddechrau yn y 1950au. Rydym hefyd yn dibynnu ar y ffyrdd ar gyfer cludo cyfran uchel o'n nwyddau domestig. Ledled y DU, mae gwefan 'Fill that Hole' Cycling UK yn rhoi gwybod am 13,500 o dyllau ffordd ar gyfartaledd bob blwyddyn. Mae'r ddau ystadegyn yn dangos maint yr her sy'n ein hwynebu, ac maent hefyd yn dangos bod cyflwr ein ffyrdd yn bwnc sy'n peri pryder i lawer o ddinasyddion Cymru, pwynt y mae Cadeirydd ein pwyllgor, Russell George, wedi'i nodi eisoes.

Ar gyfer fy nghyfraniad i'r ddadl heddiw, rwyf am ganolbwyntio ar dri argymhelliad yn benodol, ac mae'n siomedig fod pob un o'r rhain wedi cael eu gwrthod gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Felly, buaswn yn gobeithio y gallai'r Gweinidog edrych yn ei ymateb ar sut y gellid ystyried y dystiolaeth a gawsom. Yn gyntaf, argymhelliad 3: nawr, roedd a wnelo hwn â chymell awdurdodau lleol i fuddsoddi mewn gwaith cynnal a chadw. Yn fy awdurdod lleol i yn Rhondda Cynon Taf, cymeradwywyd cynlluniau yn ddiweddar i fuddsoddi £23.5 miliwn pellach dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Mae ffocws cyson ar wella'r rhwydwaith priffyrdd yn golygu, ers 2011-12, fod canran y ffyrdd dosbarthiadol sydd angen sylw yno wedi gostwng ddwy ran o dair.

Hoffwn ganmol y cyngor am eu gwaith caled yn gwella'r rhwydwaith ffyrdd, sydd wedi arwain at gwblhau dros 1,000 o gynlluniau lonydd cerbydau. Rwy'n croesawu arian sylweddol Llywodraeth Cymru i gynghorau lleol dros gyfnod o bedair blynedd ar gyfer cynnal a chadw ffyrdd. Fodd bynnag, rwy'n gobeithio y gallai'r Gweinidog amlinellu'r modd y bydd yn gweithio gyda chynghorau i sicrhau bod hyn yn dal yn flaenoriaeth. Rwy'n ymwybodol iawn mai un peth yw fod preswylwyr un awdurdod yn cael ffyrdd sy'n cael eu cynnal a'u cadw'n dda, ond beth os ydynt yn teithio i awdurdod arall lle y mae'r sefyllfa'n wahanol iawn? Efallai mai cynnal a chadw ffyrdd mewn un awdurdod yw'r gwasanaeth a allai effeithio fwyaf ar drigolion sy'n byw mewn awdurdod arall. Felly, mae angen inni wneud yn siŵr ein bod yn mabwysiadu ymagwedd gydgysylltiedig tuag at y mater hwn.

Yn ail, argymhelliad 4: nawr, mae hwn yn ymwneud ag edrych ar fodel pum mlynedd o gymorth ar gyfer cynghorau. Yr hyn sy'n allweddol yma yw'r capasiti ar gyfer cynllunio hirdymor ar bob lefel. Rwy'n derbyn rhesymeg y Gweinidog ac yn nodi, lle y bo'n bosibl, fod cyllid wedi'i ddarparu ar sail fwy hirdymor. Er enghraifft, cyfeiriais at y gronfa £60 miliwn ar gyfer tyllau yn y ffyrdd a ddyrannwyd i awdurdodau dros dair blynedd. Soniais y gall cynghorau wneud cynlluniau hirdymor, fel yn achos Rhondda Cynon Taf a'i fodel tair blynedd.

Credaf fod yr ymateb mwy cadarnhaol i argymhelliad 6 yn mynd i'r afael â rhai o'n pryderon. Gyda phwysau parhaus y cyni ariannol, mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn gwneud y penderfyniadau hirdymor cywir sy'n darparu'r atebion hirdymor cywir. Mae hynny'n well nag atebion byrdymor cyflym, sydd ond yn arwain at gost bellach yn y pen draw. Edrychaf ymlaen at gyhoeddi'r cynllun cynnal a chadw pum mlynedd y cyfeiriwyd ato maes o law.

Yn olaf, argymhelliad 8: yn ei hanfod, mae hwn yn ymwneud ag eglurder a blaenoriaethu gwelliannau i'r seilwaith ffyrdd, ac egluro, pan fo amserlenni'n llithro, pam fod hynny'n digwydd. Credaf fod hyn yn hanfodol bwysig. Un o'r pethau sydd wedi achosi fwyaf o rwystredigaeth i fy etholwyr fu'r oedi cyn cwblhau'r gwaith deuoli ar yr A465, ffordd Blaenau'r Cymoedd, rhwng y Fenni a Hirwaun. Nawr, nodwyd yr angen am welliannau i'r darn o ffordd tair lôn peryglus hwnnw bron i dri degawd yn ôl. Mae'r llithriant yn y ffrâm amser ar y prosiect hwn a addawyd ers cyhyd, yn aml heb atebion clir ynglŷn â pham neu pa bryd, wedi gadael blas chwerw. Buaswn yn dweud nad yw'n gyd-ddigwyddiad fod fy mhlaid wedi cael trafferth cadw sedd y cyngor yn ward Hirwaun, un o ddwy sedd yn unig rydym wedi methu eu cadw yng Nghwm Cynon.

Yn yr un modd, beth bynnag yw barn yr Aelodau ar ffordd liniaru'r M4, nid yw cwestiynau ynglŷn â'r amserlen yno wedi bod o fudd i neb. Rwy'n meddwl ei bod hi'n bwysig nodi efallai nad yw'r ymdeimlad o rwystredigaeth yn ymwneud yn unig â phrosiectau adnewyddu ffyrdd. Mae hefyd yn effeithio ar welliannau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Rwy'n croesawu ymrwymiad Llywodraeth Cymru i gynnal adolygiad i weld a ellid darparu mwy o eglurder ynghylch y camau datblygu o fewn y cynllun cyllid trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol. Rwy'n gobeithio y gellir gwneud hyn mor glir ag y bo modd fel bod yr holl wleidyddion a'r cymunedau rydym yn eu cynrychioli yn cael yr wybodaeth gywir. Diolch.

16:25

I'm grateful for the opportunity to speak on the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee report on the state of roads in Wales. May I begin my remarks this afternoon by paying tribute to my predecessor on the committee, Mark Isherwood, for all his work in helping to produce this valuable report? The state of the roads in Wales is a vitally important subject that affects the lives of everyone in Wales. We all use the roads as drivers or passengers, for leisure or for work or for just getting on with our daily lives.

Roads are vital for the Welsh economy. The Federation of Small Businesses pointed out that its members frequently complain that the state of our roads is getting worse and that congestion is hampering their businesses. They went on to say that, when questioned, most businesses' priority for investment was transport infrastructure. A survey in 2014 revealed that over 60 per cent of FSB members said that roadworks, congestion and the state of repair of roads were having a negative impact on their businesses. In 2016, another survey suggested that congestion and the state of repair of local roads, as opposed to the strategic trunk road network, was a significant concern.

Local roads are of course looked after by local authorities rather than by the Welsh Government. Indeed, the Welsh Government's own published data shows that the condition of local roads is significantly worse than the trunk roads or motorways. There can be no doubt that the problem of maintaining local roads has been exacerbated by cuts in local authorities' funding. Many responses to the committee made clear that local roads would deteriorate if funding levels were not maintained. I welcome the announcement that was made back in February last year of an extra £30 million for local road improvements, but this is only a fraction of the sum required. Swansea city council, for example, itself estimates the cost of this backlog of repairs at £54 million. The committee concluded that funding for local roads needed a longer term approach than that provided by the current annual settlement system. It is disappointing, therefore, to note that the two recommendations made regarding funding have been rejected by the Welsh Government, and yet there is a precedent for a longer term deal. Transport for Wales already benefits from a five-year programme of capital funding. If Transport for Wales can receive this certainty of funding, why shouldn't local authorities also be able to benefit?

In the current financial climate, local authority budgets are under severe pressure. It is unlikely that they will be able to find the significant additional funding that maintenance of the infrastructure requires. Innovative ways need to be found to incentivise local authorities to invest in essential maintenance. I would ask the Welsh Government to reconsider their rejection of those two recommendations.

Deputy Presiding Officer, it is not enough to take comfort from the conclusion that the condition of Wales's roads is not worse than those in other parts of the United Kingdom. Although this may be true, this issue is far too important for us to be complacent. We must face the challenge presented by the current state of the roads in Wales. I believe the recommendations in this report do just that and would significantly improve our road network for everyone's benefit. As the now Deputy Minister was one of the members of the committee who actually signed off those recommendations, I hope the Government will look sympathetically on this, and I commend this report to the Assembly. Thank you.

Diolch am y cyfle i siarad am adroddiad Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau ar gyflwr y ffyrdd yng Nghymru. A gaf fi ddechrau fy sylwadau y prynhawn yma drwy dalu teyrnged i fy rhagflaenydd ar y pwyllgor, Mark Isherwood, am ei holl waith yn helpu i gynhyrchu'r adroddiad gwerthfawr hwn? Mae cyflwr y ffyrdd yng Nghymru yn bwnc hollbwysig sy'n effeithio ar fywydau pawb yng Nghymru. Mae pawb ohonom yn defnyddio'r ffyrdd fel gyrwyr neu deithwyr, at ddibenion hamdden neu waith neu'n syml er mwyn bwrw ymlaen â'n bywydau bob dydd.

Mae ffyrdd yn hanfodol ar gyfer economi Cymru. Nododd y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach fod eu haelodau'n aml yn cwyno bod cyflwr ein ffyrdd yn gwaethygu a bod tagfeydd yn llesteirio eu busnesau. Aethant ymlaen i ddweud, pan gawsant eu holi, mai blaenoriaeth y rhan fwyaf o fusnesau ar gyfer buddsoddi oedd y seilwaith trafnidiaeth. Dangosodd arolwg yn 2014 fod dros 60 y cant o aelodau'r Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach wedi dweud bod gwaith ffordd, tagfeydd a chyflwr y ffyrdd yn cael effaith negyddol ar eu busnesau. Yn 2016, awgrymodd arolwg arall fod tagfeydd a chyflwr y ffyrdd lleol, yn hytrach na'r rhwydwaith cefnffyrdd strategol, yn peri pryder sylweddol.

Awdurdodau lleol yn hytrach na Llywodraeth Cymru sy'n edrych ar ôl ffyrdd lleol wrth gwrs. Yn wir, dengys data a gyhoeddwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru ei hun fod cyflwr ffyrdd lleol yn sylweddol waeth na'r cefnffyrdd neu'r traffyrdd. Ni all fod unrhyw amheuaeth fod y broblem o gynnal a chadw ffyrdd lleol wedi'i gwaethygu gan doriadau yng nghyllid awdurdodau lleol. Roedd llawer o'r ymatebion i'r pwyllgor yn dweud yn glir y byddai ffyrdd lleol yn dirywio os na châi lefelau ariannu eu cynnal. Rwy'n croesawu'r cyhoeddiad a wnaed ym mis Chwefror y llynedd o £30 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer gwelliannau i ffyrdd lleol, ond rhan bitw iawn o'r swm sydd ei angen yw hwn. Mae cyngor dinas Abertawe, er enghraifft, yn amcangyfrif bod cost ei ôl-groniad o waith atgyweirio yn £54 miliwn. Daeth y pwyllgor i'r casgliad fod angen dull mwy hirdymor o weithredu mewn perthynas ag arian ar gyfer ffyrdd lleol na'r hyn a gynigir gan system bresennol y setliad blynyddol. Mae'n siomedig nodi, felly, fod y ddau argymhelliad a wnaed ynghylch cyllido wedi'u gwrthod gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ac eto ceir cynsail ar gyfer cytundeb mwy hirdymor. Mae Trafnidiaeth Cymru eisoes yn elwa o raglen bum mlynedd o gyllid cyfalaf. Os gall Trafnidiaeth Cymru gael sicrwydd o gyllid fel hyn, pam na all awdurdodau lleol elwa hefyd?

Yn yr hinsawdd ariannol bresennol, mae cyllidebau awdurdodau lleol dan bwysau difrifol. Mae'n annhebygol y byddant yn gallu dod o hyd i'r arian ychwanegol sylweddol y mae cynnal a chadw'r seilwaith yn galw amdano. Mae angen dod o hyd i ffyrdd arloesol o gymell awdurdodau lleol i fuddsoddi mewn gwaith cynnal a chadw hanfodol. Gofynnaf i Lywodraeth Cymru ailystyried ei phenderfyniad i wrthod y ddau argymhelliad.

Ddirprwy Lywydd, nid yw'n ddigon inni gysuro'n hunain â'r casgliad nad yw cyflwr ffyrdd Cymru'n waeth na ffyrdd mewn rhannau eraill o'r Deyrnas Unedig. Er y gallai hynny fod yn wir, mae'r mater yn llawer rhy bwysig inni fod yn hunanfodlon. Rhaid inni wynebu'r her y mae cyflwr presennol y ffyrdd yng Nghymru yn ei chreu. Credaf fod yr argymhellion yn yr adroddiad hwn yn gwneud hynny a byddent yn gwella ein rhwydwaith ffyrdd yn sylweddol er budd pawb. Gan fod y Dirprwy Weinidog yn arfer bod yn un o aelodau'r pwyllgor a gymeradwyodd yr argymhellion hynny, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y Llywodraeth yn edrych yn gydymdeimladol ar hyn, ac rwy'n cymeradwyo'r adroddiad i'r Cynulliad. Diolch.

16:30

Gwnaf i siarad yn fyr iawn. Nid oeddwn i’n Aelod o’r pwyllgor a wnaeth y gwaith ymchwil yma. Yn rhyfedd, mi oedd yna rywfaint o gellwair pan gafodd y gystadleuaeth yna ei lansio i bobl anfon lluniau o dyllau mewn ffyrdd i mewn—rhai yn amau difrifoldeb hynny. Ond, wir, mi oedd o’n gam defnyddiol, a beth a ddangoswyd yn ymateb pobl oedd cymaint y mae hyn yn cyffwrdd â bywydau pobl lle bynnag y maen nhw yng Nghymru. Ein ffyrdd ni, wedi’r cyfan, ydy un o’n hasedau mwyaf ni, gwerth dros £13 biliwn, ac mae pob un ohonom ni, mewn rhyw ffordd neu'i gilydd, yn defnyddio’r ffyrdd, ac mae pob un ohonom ni—mi fentraf i ddweud—rhyw dro neu'i gilydd wedi dod ar draws twll mewn ffordd, ac mi oedd hi yn, rydw i’n meddwl, yn exercise defnyddiol iawn mewn ymgysylltiad go iawn rhwng ein Senedd genedlaethol ni a phobl Cymru ar bwnc a oedd yn wirioneddol bwysig iddyn nhw.

Ac nid oedd yna ddim gwobrau, nid ydw i’n meddwl, am ddyfalu beth fyddai rhai o gasgliadau’r ymchwiliad yma, neu beth fyddai rhai o’r argymhellion a fyddai’n dod yn sgil y casgliadau hynny, ond mi oedd hi’n bwysig iawn, iawn, iawn eu bod nhw’n cael eu nodi mewn du a gwyn, ac rydw i’n falch bod yr adroddiad yma gennym ni. Nid oedd hi’n ddim syndod gweld, drwy’r adroddiad yma, fod arian yn rhy dynn ar lywodraeth leol yng Nghymru, fel y mae hi, iddyn nhw heb gymorth ychwanegol fynd i’r afael â’r broblem yma; nid oedd hi’n ddim syndod gweld bod angen cynllun cyllido hirdymor, fel mae elfennau eraill o’n rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth ni’n ei dderbyn; nid oedd hi’n ddim syndod gweld bod rheoli hirdymor a sicrhau bod yr ased yma’n cael ei gynnal a’i gadw yn y cyflwr gorau yn y hirdymor yn fwy cost effeithiol nag ymateb i broblemau fel ag y maen nhw’n codi, ac mae gennym ni argymhellion rŵan yr ydw i’n gobeithio y bydd y Llywodraeth yn gweithredu arnyn nhw.

Ond nid oes dim celu'r ffaith bod yna broblem ariannol ddybryd wrth wraidd y sefyllfa yma. Mae arolwg ALARM, sydd wedi cael ei dynnu i’n sylw i heddiw, yn awgrymu bod awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru wedi gwario 40 y cant yn llai nag awdurdodau lleol yn Lloegr ar drwsio ffyrdd yn 2018. Nid ydy hynny’n gynaliadwy. Rydw i'n deall yn fy etholaeth i fod yr arian sydd ar gael ar gyfer cynnal a chadw ffyrdd wedi bron haneru mewn cyfnod o ryw 10 mlynedd. Nid ydy hynny’n gynaliadwy. Rydw i'n gweld un awdurdod yn sôn am ôl-groniad o £50 miliwn ar gyfer trwsio ffyrdd. Mae ystadegau Abertawe eto wedi cael eu tynnu i’m sylw i heddiw.

Ac mae sefyllfa’n gallu gwaethygu dros amser hefyd. Rydw i wedi cael achos yn fy etholaeth i yn ddiweddar lle mae newid mewn arferion amaethyddol, cerbydau trymach yn cael eu defnyddio ar ffyrdd gwledig, yn gwaethygu ac yn creu problemau o’r newydd ar gyfer ffyrdd gwledig, a hynny’n achosi costau ychwanegol maes o law. Felly, nid ydy hon yn broblem sy’n mynd i ffwrdd, mae’n broblem, ac mae’n rhaid inni ei chymryd hi o ddifri.

All rhywun ddim anwybyddu’r ffaith bod yna, ar y gweill yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd, gynlluniau ffyrdd gwerth hyd at, beth, £2 biliwn a allai fod yn digwydd ar gyfer un cynllun, a chynlluniau sylweddol eraill gwerth degau, cannoedd o filiynau o bunnau. Mae’n rhaid gwarchod yr ased sylfaenol. Mae'n rhaid gwarchod yr ased sylfaenol. Ac mae’n rhaid rhoi cynlluniau gwariant hirdymor—pum mlynedd ydy’r awgrym yn yr adroddiad yma, ac rydw i’n cyd-fynd â hynny—cynlluniau cyllidol hirdymor er mwyn sicrhau bod ein hawdurdodau lleol ni’n gallu rhoi rhaglenni mewn lle er mwyn gwarchod yr ased yna ar gyfer yr hirdymor. Ac rydw i'n falch iawn bod yr adroddiad yma wedi cael ei wneud, beth bynnag am y cellwair ynglŷn â’r gystadleuaeth ffotograffiaeth ar ei dechrau hi.

I will speak very briefly. I wasn't a member of the committee that carried out this inquiry, and, oddly enough, there was some mockery when that competition was launched for people to send in pictures of potholes to the committee. Some doubted the seriousness of that, but it was an useful step, and what was shown in people's response was just how much this touches the lives of people wherever they are in Wales. Our roads, after all, are one of our greatest assets, worth over £13 billion, and each and every one of us in one way or another uses those roads, and each and every one of us, I would go so far as to say, have come across potholes in our roads. It was a very useful exercise, I think, in real engagement between our national Parliament and the people of Wales on an issue that was truly important to them.

And there were no prizes for thinking what some of the conclusions of this inquiry would be, nor what some of the recommendations that would emerge would be, but it was very important indeed that they were noted in black and white, and I'm very pleased that we do have this report. It was no surprise to see through this report that funding is too tight within our local authorities in Wales for them, without additional support, to tackle this particular problem; it was no surprise to see that we needed a long-term funding plan, as other elements of our transport system receive; it was no surprise to see that long-term management and ensuring that this asset was maintained in the best possible condition for the longer term would be more cost-effective than responding to problems as they arise, and we have recommendations now that I hope that the Government will implement.

But there's no getting away from the fact that there is a dire financial problem at the core of this situation. The annual local authority road maintenance survey, which was drawn to my attention today, suggests that local authorities in Wales had spent 40 per cent less than local authorities in England on road maintenance in 2018. That’s not sustainable. I understand in my constituency that the funding available for road maintenance has almost halved in a period of around 10 years. That is not sustainable. I see one authority talking about a backlog of £50 million for road maintenance. The statistics from Swansea have again been drawn to my attention today.

And a situation can deteriorate over time. I’ve had a case in my own constituency recently where a change in agricultural practice, heavier vehicles being used on rural roads, does exacerbate the problems and causes problems anew for rural roads, and that, in turn, leads to further costs. So, this isn’t a problem that’s going to go away; it’s a problem that we have to take seriously.

And one can’t ignore the fact that, in Wales, at the moment, there are road schemes worth up to some £2 billion in the pipeline—that could happen for one scheme, and there are other significant schemes worth tens or hundreds of millions of pounds and we must safeguard the fundamental asset. We must safeguard that asset and we must put long-term spending programmes in place— five years is the suggestion made in this report, and I would agree with that—long-term funding schemes in order to ensure that our local authorities can put programmes in place in order to safeguard that asset for the longer term. And I’m very pleased that this report has been drawn up, never mind the mockery of the photography competition at its start.

16:35

Well, echoing some of the words of Rhun ap Iorwerth, during our evidence sessions on the state of the roads in Wales, many, if not all, stakeholders were adamant that there was a need for longer strategic planning, and this could only be achieved by long-term budget proposals from the Welsh Government, most advocating this be at least for a term of five years. It is therefore regrettable that recommendation 4 in our report is rejected by the Cabinet Minister. Although an explanation is given for this rejection, should Government not acknowledge that short-term solutions to the road network are far more costly over time than well-thought-out medium to long-term projects? So, it seems strange that you accept our recommendation 6, which, again, calls for long-term planning, although this acceptance seems to be based on better, longer-lasting, road metalling materials.

Given that financial restraints are the primary cause for the Government's inability to facilitate long-term budgets, should such restraints be a fundamental factor in the Cabinet Minister's deliberations over whether to go forward with the M4 relief road? Surely the release of the huge capital sum envisaged for the bypass would alleviate all the restraints outlined in your rejection of the suggestions contained in the committee's recommendation 4.

Turning to the Government's rejection of recommendation 12, where we asked that there should be a clear priority given to maintenance of existing roads, and enhancement of the active travel network, your rejection simply states that it is the national transport finance plan that sets out the investment programme, not the Wales transport strategy. However, does this address the fundamental principle of our recommendation, which addresses the question of prioritisation, given that both the strategy and the finance plan are both under the remit of the Welsh Government?

In conclusion, the two fundamental findings our inquiry's identified are that the trunk roads of Wales are generally of good standard and are being upgraded in a timely and cost-effective manner. However, the same cannot be said for the road network administered by local authorities, and that this is mainly due to financial constraints. We therefore call upon the Welsh Government to rectify this imbalance so that those using the network in Wales find all roads are maintained to an excellent and safe standard.

Wel, i adleisio rhai o eiriau Rhun ap Iorwerth, yn ystod ein sesiynau tystiolaeth ar gyflwr y ffyrdd yng Nghymru, roedd llawer o randdeiliaid, os nad y cyfan, yn bendant fod angen cynllunio strategol hwy, ac ni ellid cyflawni hyn heblaw drwy gynigion cyllideb hirdymor gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ac roedd y rhan fwyaf yn argymell cyfnod o bum mlynedd fan lleiaf. Mae'n drueni, felly, fod argymhelliad 4 yn ein hadroddiad wedi'i wrthod gan Weinidog y Cabinet. Er y rhoddir esboniad pam y caiff ei wrthod, oni ddylai'r Llywodraeth gydnabod bod atebion byrdymor i'r rhwydwaith ffyrdd yn llawer mwy costus dros amser na phrosiectau wedi'u cynllunio'n dda dros y tymor canolig i'r tymor hir? Felly, ymddengys yn rhyfedd eich bod yn derbyn argymhelliad 6, sydd, unwaith eto, yn galw am gynllunio hirdymor, er bod y penderfyniad hwn i'w dderbyn i'w weld yn seiliedig ar ddeunyddiau metlin gwell, sy'n para'n hwy.

Gan mai cyfyngiadau ariannol yw'r prif achos dros anallu'r Llywodraeth i hwyluso cyllidebau hirdymor, a ddylai cyfyngiadau o'r fath fod yn ffactor sylfaenol yn nhrafodaethau Gweinidog Cabinet ynglŷn ag a ddylid bwrw ymlaen â ffordd liniaru'r M4? Yn sicr byddai rhyddhau'r swm cyfalaf enfawr a ragwelir ar gyfer y ffordd osgoi yn lleddfu'r holl gyfyngiadau a amlinellir yn eich penderfyniad i wrthod yr awgrymiadau a geir yn argymhelliad 4 y pwyllgor.

Gan droi at benderfyniad y Llywodraeth i wrthod argymhelliad 12, lle roeddem yn gofyn am roi blaenoriaeth glir i'r gwaith o gynnal a chadw ffyrdd presennol, a gwella'r rhwydwaith teithio llesol, mae eich penderfyniad i wrthod yn datgan yn syml mai'r cynllun cyllid trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol sy'n pennu'r rhaglen fuddsoddi, nid strategaeth drafnidiaeth Cymru. Fodd bynnag, a yw'n ymdrin ag egwyddor sylfaenol ein hargymhelliad, sy'n mynd i'r afael â'r cwestiwn o flaenoriaethu, o gofio bod y strategaeth a'r cynllun cyllid ill dau'n rhan o gylch gorchwyl Llywodraeth Cymru?

I gloi, y ddau beth sylfaenol a ganfu ein hymchwiliad yw fod safon cefnffyrdd Cymru yn dda at ei gilydd a'u bod yn cael eu huwchraddio mewn modd amserol a chosteffeithiol. Fodd bynnag, ni ellir dweud yr un peth am y rhwydwaith ffyrdd a weinyddir gan awdurdodau lleol, ac mai'r rheswm am hyn yn bennaf yw cyfyngiadau ariannol. Rydym yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru felly i unioni'r anghydbwysedd hwn fel bod y rheini sy'n defnyddio'r rhwydwaith yng Nghymru yn gweld bod yr holl ffyrdd yn cael eu cynnal i safon ardderchog a diogel.

One area that I would like a particular focus on is the surface water flooding, and when we took evidence, Leeds university mentioned climate change in their evidence to the committee, and particularly, the increased incidence of heavy rainfall, which, in its turn, increases flooding. I note that sustainable drainage systems for new properties have come into force this week. However, dealing with flood risk and aquaplaning, which is potentially lethal in its consequences, must be written, I believe, into both road building and maintenance schedules, whether that is maintained by local government or other highway bodies. I look forward to it being included in the five-year maintenance plan. 

I do welcome the extra funding that has come into local government, particularly to address this problem in response to its needs, but I will be and will remain consistent about surface water flooding, because the outcome and the result of it can be absolutely lethal.

Un maes yr hoffwn ganolbwyntio'n benodol arno yw llifogydd dŵr wyneb, a phan ddaeth y dystiolaeth i law, soniodd Prifysgol Leeds am newid yn yr hinsawdd yn eu tystiolaeth i'r pwyllgor, ac yn arbennig, y cynnydd mewn glaw trwm, sydd, yn ei dro, yn cynyddu llifogydd. Nodaf fod systemau draenio cynaliadwy ar gyfer eiddo newydd wedi dod i rym yr wythnos hon. Fodd bynnag, rhaid i ymdrin â pherygl llifogydd a sglefrio, sy'n gallu bod yn angheuol o ran ei ganlyniadau, gael ei gynnwys mewn amserlenni adeiladu a chynnal a chadw ffyrdd, boed yn waith a wneir gan lywodraeth leol neu gyrff priffyrdd eraill. Edrychaf ymlaen at ei weld yn cael ei gynnwys yn y cynllun cynnal a chadw pum mlynedd.

Rwy'n croesawu'r arian ychwanegol sydd wedi dod i lywodraeth leol, yn enwedig ar gyfer datrys y broblem hon mewn ymateb i'w hanghenion, ond fe fyddaf yn parhau i ddadlau'n gyson ynglŷn â llifogydd dŵr wyneb, oherwydd gall canlyniad llifogydd o'r fath fod yn gwbl angheuol.

16:40

I'd like to thank the Finance Committee for their report. The state of our roads is one of the frequent complaints I receive as an Assembly Member. Anyone who uses any of Wales’s 21,000 miles of road will tell you that many of those roads are in a poor state of repair. Avoiding potholes has become a fixture in our daily commute.

According to the Asphalt Industry Alliance, it will take over 24 years and more than £0.5 billion to get Wales’s roads up to scratch. We have a massive backlog of road repairs, which has also led to increases in compensation and insurance pay-outs due to damage and injury caused by potholes. Potholes are one of the leading causes of car accidents on our roads and are responsible for the death or serious injury of many cyclists each year. Local authority cuts and a couple of harsh winters have contributed to a sharp rise in the number of potholes plaguing our highways and byways. Without extra investment and forward planning, our roads will deteriorate much further, well beyond the ability to apply a quick patch. Poorly patched potholes can make the situation much worse, as road salt and below-freezing water during the winter months undermine the patch, often leading to an even bigger pothole.

Forecasters are predicting yet another harsh winter, which will further undermine the condition of our road network. I therefore welcome the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee’s recommendations and regret that the Welsh Government have failed to accept them all. The roads in the worst state of repair are our local roads—the responsibility of Wales’s 22 councils—yet the Welsh Government refuses to ensure ring-fenced funds for our roads or to ensure that we move away from year-to-year budgeting to more strategic transport investment plans. It is this short-sightedness that has led us to where we are today, where roads are left to deteriorate until they are almost unusable, then hastily and shoddily patched and allowed to deteriorate further before they are eventually resurfaced.

We need to move away from this reactionary approach and take a more strategic approach towards our national infrastructure. A properly planned and adequately financed programme of road repairs and surface replacement is badly needed. We also need to look at ways in which technology can help address the issue of potholes. New machinery and new developments in bonding agents mean repairs can last longer than the original road surface. New advances in road surface material science has led to the creation of self-healing roads, which are being built in the Netherlands and China.

We need to ensure that our roads, the lifeblood of our economy, are fit for the future by ensuring that we utilise the very latest technology, which will undoubtedly lead to future cost savings as well as reducing the number of accidents, deaths and serious injuries that occur on Welsh roads. With these points in mind, I urge the Minister to reconsider his opposition to recommendations 3 and 4. Thank you very much.

Hoffwn ddiolch i'r Pwyllgor Cyllid am eu hadroddiad. Cyflwr ein ffyrdd yw un o'r cwynion cyson a gaf fel Aelod Cynulliad. Bydd y sawl sy'n defnyddio unrhyw un o'r 21,000 milltir o ffyrdd yng Nghymru yn dweud wrthych fod llawer o'r ffyrdd hyn mewn cyflwr gwael. Mae osgoi tyllau yn y ffyrdd wedi dod yn rhan o batrwm ein teithiau cymudo dyddiol.

Yn ôl Asphalt Industry Alliance, bydd yn cymryd dros 24 mlynedd a mwy na £0.5 biliwn i sicrhau bod ffyrdd Cymru'n cyrraedd y safon. Mae gennym ôl-groniad enfawr o waith atgyweirio ffyrdd, sydd hefyd wedi arwain at gynnydd mewn taliadau iawndal ac yswiriant oherwydd difrod ac anafiadau a achoswyd gan dyllau yn y ffyrdd. Tyllau yn y ffyrdd yw un o brif achosion damweiniau car ar ein ffyrdd ac maent yn gyfrifol am beri marwolaeth neu anaf difrifol i lawer o feicwyr bob blwyddyn. Mae toriadau awdurdodau lleol ac un neu ddau o aeafau caled wedi cyfrannu at gynnydd sydyn yn nifer y tyllau yn y ffyrdd sy'n bla ar ein priffyrdd a'n cilffyrdd. Heb fuddsoddiad ychwanegol a blaengynllunio, bydd ein ffyrdd yn dirywio llawer mwy, ymhell y tu hwnt i'r gallu i ddarparu atgyweiriad cyflym. Gall tyllau yn y ffyrdd sy'n cael eu hatgyweirio'n wael wneud y sefyllfa'n waeth o lawer, gan fod halen ffordd a dŵr is na'r rhewbwynt yn ystod misoedd y gaeaf yn difetha'r gwaith atgyweirio, gan arwain at dwll sydd hyd yn oed yn fwy.

Mae'r proffwydi tywydd yn rhagweld gaeaf caled arall eto a fydd yn difetha cyflwr ein rhwydwaith ffyrdd ymhellach. Felly, rwy'n croesawu argymhellion Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau ac yn gresynu bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi methu derbyn pob un ohonynt. Y ffyrdd sydd yn y cyflwr gwaethaf yw ein ffyrdd lleol—cyfrifoldeb y 22 cyngor yng Nghymru—ac eto mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwrthod sicrhau arian wedi'i glustnodi ar gyfer ein ffyrdd neu i sicrhau ein bod yn symud oddi wrth gyllidebu o flwyddyn i flwyddyn i gynlluniau buddsoddi mewn trafnidiaeth sy'n fwy strategol. Yr agwedd gibddall hon sydd wedi ein harwain i lle'r ydym heddiw, lle y gadewir i ffyrdd ddirywio bron hyd nes na ellir eu defnyddio, yna eu hatgyweirio'n frysiog a ffwrdd â hi a'u gadael i ddirywio ymhellach cyn gosod wyneb newydd arnynt yn y pen draw.

Mae angen inni symud oddi wrth yr ymagwedd adweithiol hon a mabwysiadu ymagwedd fwy strategol tuag at ein seilwaith cenedlaethol. Mae gwir angen rhaglen wedi'i chynllunio a'i hariannu'n briodol ar gyfer atgyweirio a gosod wyneb newydd ar ffyrdd. Mae angen inni edrych hefyd ar ffyrdd y gall technoleg helpu i fynd i'r afael â phroblem tyllau yn y ffyrdd. Mae peiriannau newydd a datblygiadau newydd ym maes cyfryngau bondio yn golygu y gall gwaith atgyweirio bara mwy na wyneb gwreiddiol y ffordd. Mae datblygiadau newydd ym maes gwyddor deunyddiau wyneb ffyrdd wedi arwain at greu ffyrdd sy'n gwella'u hunain, sy'n cael eu hadeiladu yn yr Iseldiroedd a Tsieina.

Mae angen inni sicrhau bod ein ffyrdd, asgwrn cefn ein heconomi, yn addas ar gyfer y dyfodol drwy sicrhau ein bod yn defnyddio'r dechnoleg ddiweddaraf, a fydd yn sicr o arwain at arbedion ariannol yn y dyfodol yn ogystal â lleihau nifer y damweiniau, y marwolaethau a'r anafiadau difrifol sy'n digwydd ar ffyrdd Cymru. Gyda'r pwyntiau hyn mewn cof, rwy'n annog y Gweinidog i ailystyried ei wrthwynebiad i argymhellion 3 a 4. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

16:45

Thank you very much. Can I now call the Minister for Economy and Transport, Ken Skates?

Diolch yn fawr iawn. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar Weinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth, Ken Skates?

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. It's a great pleasure to be able to respond to this important debate today. I'd like to begin by thanking the Chair and the members of the committee for their hard work. I'd like to thank all Members who have contributed this afternoon, and I'd also like to thank the Chair of the committee for providing the complementary visuals to today's debate. I hasn't realised that the photographic competition had drawn any scorn; I actually think it's a really innovative way of attracting interest from the people that we serve in the work that we do, and I'd like to congratulate the committee for deciding to hold that competition.

Deputy Presiding Officer, I've always been very clear, throughout my time in office, that the Welsh Government is committed to a high-quality, integrated, low-carbon and multimodal transport system that can support our communities, our economy, our public services, right across the length and breadth of Wales. I know that the public perception might be that the Welsh Government is stuffed full of road engineers that only want to build new roads—I've heard the joke many times before—but it is simply not true. Look at what we've put forward as a Government in recent years. Proposals for a new £5 billion rail service, exciting new plans for metros in the north and in the south, a big increase in active travel investment, and a major new public transport White Paper proposing ambitious reform of our bus and taxi sectors, I think, prove that point.

But whatever the future looks like, having a reliable and well-maintained road network that can serve those communities and regional economies I talked about is a vital part of the equation. At over 1,700 km in length, the motorway and trunk road network is one of our most valuable assets, worth approximately £16 billion. Through improving connectivity and boosting economic activity, it supports the delivery of many of the objectives in 'Prosperity for All' and the 'Wales Infrastructure Investment Plan'. To put it simply, we are responsible for three areas: we are responsible for constructing new roads and improving the existing ones; we are responsible for renewing roads, bridges and other structures; and we're also responsible for the day-to-day road maintenance of the trunk road network and motorway network, including, of course—crucially—winter maintenance. 

Work is continually required across the network to ensure its safety, and work is currently managed by two public sector agents: the South Wales Trunk Road Agent, managed by Neath Port Talbot council; and in the north and mid Wales, it's the North and Mid Wales Trunk Road Agent, which is managed by Gwynedd County Council. And I think it is fair to say that recent harsh winters have not been kind whatsoever to the network, causing significant disruption, and we've experienced a rapid deterioration in road surface conditions, due to the freeze-thaw cycle across Wales that many Members today have talked about. But even during these challenging times we continue to operate, maintain and upgrade the network, allowing 10 billion vehicle kilometres of use per year throughout all seasons. The nature of the work is incredibly costly, and in the last financial year, we invested over £146 million in maintenance and minor improvements alone. We'll continue to focus on ensuring value for money and driving efficiency in all of our transport schemes. With regard to recommendation 4, we recognise and we are sympathetic to the calls from our public sector partners and businesses for budgeting over a longer period whenever possible, in order to support forward financial planning, but our ambition to publish plans for longer than 12 months must be balanced with our ability to provide realistic and sensible planning assumptions.

Our capital budget is 10 per cent lower in real terms than at the start of this decade, and potholes are a clear, visible and daily reminder of the UK Government's austerity programme. The continuing financial uncertainty and the considerable insecurity surrounding the shape and nature of the negotiations for a future deal with the European Union mean that we have taken the decision to publish capital plans for the next two years, 2019-20 and 2020-21—the period for which we have a known settlement. An additional £32.5 million of specific grants were allocated in the last financial year to local authorities to improve the condition of the road network, and we'll be providing a further £60 million specifically for highway refurbishment over the three years between 2018-19 and 2021-22. Decisions on local roads and the prioritisation of repairs and improvements are, rightly in my view, matters for local decision makers.

An extra £100 million general capital being provided between 2018-19 and 2021-22 as part of the additional funding package for local government announced in November will go a huge way to support local councils in improving the condition of their road network, and allow them to deliver other local transport priorities, which of course are much more widely appreciated than just road users.

We are progressing major projects to improve the road network across Wales, particularly at pinch points where congestion can be a major problem. By making our network more efficient we not only improve productivity, but also enhance access to jobs, services and leisure. Rectifying pinch points can also play an important role in overall emissions reductions, as well as providing significant air quality, noise and active travel benefits for local communities.

Our national transport finance plan sets out an ambitious five-year rolling programme of transport interventions that we are taking forward across Wales, and the plan was updated in December of 2017 with an intention to review on an annual basis to reflect developments over time and the changing profile of needs across Wales. The current Wales transport strategy is also under review, having originally been published in 2008. That strategy, which will be published this year, will provide an opportunity to adopt new approaches and engage with stakeholders during key stages of its development. Officials are already engaging with the Future Generations Commissioner for Wales on the direction of this strategy, and we also worked with the future generations commissioner to launch the Welsh transport appraisal guidance.

To complement our capital budget, we have also developed a range of innovative financing schemes, including the mutual investment model, to finance major capital projects. This will support additional investment in social and economic infrastructure projects and will help to improve public services across our country. The MIM includes important provisions to promote the public interest. The model extends the Government's approach to community benefits, which have been a key feature of the other schemes delivered to date. It also incorporates our commitments to ethical employment and sustainable development, and will contribute to the delivery of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. We've made it clear that the mutual investment model will only be used when other forms of capital have been exhausted. I know that officials have already briefed the committee on the model, but further briefing will be provided during the procurement of the first MIM scheme, which is to complete the dualling of the Heads of the Valleys road, the A465.

Officials continue to liaise with various practitioners throughout the UK to share best practice, including Transport Scotland, Highways England and local contractors. This has resulted in a new specification for road surfacing suitable to meet the challenge of durability, sustainability and the environmental effects of climate change. We're also fully aware that mobile apps are increasingly become the norm, and that they could be incredibly useful in assisting with maintenance planning. It's recognised industry wide that current surveys lack an effective real-time approach, and the geographical information system would be able to highlight condition issues and inform planned maintenance decision making on a rolling basis.

So, in conclusion, Welsh Ministers are directly responsible for the motorway and trunk road network in Wales and have a statutory duty to maintain its safety and operation. We will continue our sustained investment in the maintenance and improvement of this critical asset.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae'n bleser mawr gennyf allu ymateb i'r ddadl bwysig hon heddiw. Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddiolch i Gadeirydd ac aelodau'r pwyllgor am eu gwaith caled. Hoffwn ddiolch i'r holl Aelodau sydd wedi cyfrannu y prynhawn yma, a hoffwn ddiolch hefyd i Gadeirydd y pwyllgor am ddarparu'r elfennau gweledol ategol i'r ddadl heddiw. Nid oeddwn wedi sylweddoli bod y gystadleuaeth ffotograffig wedi denu unrhyw wawd; rwy'n credu o ddifrif ei bod hi'n ffordd wirioneddol arloesol o ddenu diddordeb ymhlith y bobl a wasanaethir gennym yn y gwaith a wnawn, a hoffwn longyfarch y pwyllgor am benderfynu cynnal y gystadleuaeth honno.

Ddirprwy Lywydd, rwyf bob amser wedi dweud yn glir iawn, drwy gydol fy amser yn y swydd, fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymrwymedig i system drafnidiaeth integredig, garbon isel ac amlfodd safonol a all gefnogi ein cymunedau, ein heconomi, ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, ar hyd a lled Cymru. Gwn mai canfyddiad y cyhoedd o bosibl yw fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn llawn o beirianwyr ffyrdd sydd ond eisiau adeiladu ffyrdd newydd—clywais y jôc lawer gwaith o'r blaen—ond nid yw'n wir. Edrychwch ar yr hyn a gyflwynwyd gennym fel Llywodraeth dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Cynigion ar gyfer gwasanaeth rheilffordd newydd gwerth £5 biliwn, cynlluniau newydd cyffrous ar gyfer metros yn y gogledd ac yn y de, cynnydd mawr yn y buddsoddiad ar gyfer teithio llesol, ac mae Papur Gwyn newydd pwysig ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus sy'n argymell newidiadau uchelgeisiol i'n sectorau bysiau a thacsis yn profi'r pwynt hwnnw yn fy marn i.

Ond sut bynnag y bydd pethau yn y dyfodol, mae cael rhwydwaith ffyrdd dibynadwy sy'n cael ei gynnal yn dda ac sy'n gallu gwasanaethu'r cymunedau a'r economïau rhanbarthol y soniais amdanynt yn rhan hanfodol o'r hafaliad. Ar dros 1,700 km o hyd, mae'r rhwydwaith traffyrdd a chefnffyrdd yn un o'n hasedau mwyaf gwerthfawr, ac yn werth tua £16 biliwn. Drwy wella cysylltedd a hybu gweithgarwch economaidd, mae'n cefnogi cyflawniad llawer o'r amcanion yn 'Ffyniant i Bawb' a'r 'Cynllun Buddsoddi yn Seilwaith Cymru'. O'i roi'n syml, rydym yn gyfrifol am dri maes: rydym yn gyfrifol am adeiladu ffyrdd newydd a gwella'r rhai presennol; rydym yn gyfrifol am adnewyddu ffyrdd, pontydd a strwythurau eraill; ac rydym hefyd yn gyfrifol am gynnal a chadw ffyrdd o ddydd i ddydd ar y rhwydwaith cefnffyrdd a thraffyrdd, gan gynnwys, wrth gwrs—yn hollbwysig—gwaith cynnal a chadw dros y gaeaf.

Mae angen gwaith yn barhaus ar draws y rhwydwaith i sicrhau ei ddiogelwch, a chaiff gwaith ei reoli ar hyn o bryd gan ddau asiant sector cyhoeddus: Asiant Cefnffyrdd De Cymru, a reolir gan gyngor Castell-nedd Port Talbot; ac yng ngogledd a chanolbarth Cymru, Asiant Cefnffyrdd Gogledd a Chanolbarth Cymru, a reolir gan Gyngor Sir Gwynedd. Ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n deg dweud nad yw'r gaeafau caled yn ddiweddar wedi bod yn garedig i'r rhwydwaith mewn unrhyw fodd, gan achosi tarfu sylweddol, ac rydym wedi profi dirywiad cyflym yng nghyflwr wyneb ffyrdd, oherwydd y cylch rhewi-dadmer ar draws Cymru a nodwyd gan lawer o'r Aelodau heddiw. Ond hyd yn oed yn ystod y cyfnod heriol hwn rydym yn parhau i weithredu, cynnal a chadw ac uwchraddio'r rhwydwaith, gan ganiatáu 10 biliwn o gilometrau o ddefnydd y flwyddyn gan gerbydau drwy gydol pob tymor. Mae natur y gwaith yn hynod o gostus, ac yn y flwyddyn ariannol ddiwethaf, buddsoddwyd dros £146 miliwn mewn gwaith cynnal a chadw a mân welliannau yn unig. Byddwn yn parhau i ganolbwyntio ar sicrhau gwerth am arian ac effeithlonrwydd gyrru ym mhob un o'n cynlluniau trafnidiaeth. O ran argymhelliad 4, rydym yn cydnabod, ac yn cydymdeimlo â galwadau gan ein partneriaid sector cyhoeddus a busnesau i gyllidebu dros gyfnod hwy o amser lle y bo'n bosibl, er mwyn cefnogi blaengynllunio ariannol, ond rhaid cydbwyso ein huchelgais i gyhoeddi cynlluniau am fwy na 12 mis â'n gallu i ddarparu rhagdybiaethau cynllunio realistig a synhwyrol.

Mae ein cyllideb gyfalaf 10 y cant yn is mewn termau real nag ar ddechrau'r degawd hwn, ac mae tyllau yn y ffyrdd yn ein hatgoffa'n glir, yn weladwy ac yn ddyddiol am raglen gyni Llywodraeth y DU. Mae'r ansicrwydd ariannol sy'n parhau a'r amhendantrwydd sylweddol ynglŷn â ffurf a natur y negodiadau am fargen yn y dyfodol gyda'r Undeb Ewropeaidd yn golygu ein bod wedi gwneud y penderfyniad i gyhoeddi cynlluniau cyfalaf ar gyfer y ddwy flynedd nesaf, 2019-20 a 2020-21—y cyfnod y mae gennym setliad hysbys ar ei gyfer. Dyrannwyd gwerth £32.5 miliwn ychwanegol o grantiau penodol yn y flwyddyn ariannol ddiwethaf i awdurdodau lleol ar gyfer gwella cyflwr y rhwydwaith ffyrdd, a byddwn yn darparu £60 miliwn pellach yn benodol ar gyfer adnewyddu priffyrdd dros y tair blynedd rhwng 2018-19 a 2021-22. Yn briodol yn fy marn i, mae penderfyniadau ynglŷn â ffyrdd lleol a blaenoriaethu gwaith atgyweirio a gwelliannau yn faterion y dylid eu penderfynu'n lleol.

Bydd cyfalaf cyffredinol o £100 miliwn ychwanegol a ddarparir rhwng 2018-19 a 2021-22 fel rhan o'r pecyn ariannu ychwanegol ar gyfer llywodraeth leol a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Tachwedd yn cyfrannu'n enfawr tuag at gynorthwyo cynghorau lleol i wella cyflwr eu rhwydwaith ffyrdd, ac yn eu galluogi i gyflawni blaenoriaethau trafnidiaeth eraill lleol, a werthfawrogir yn llawer mwy eang na chan ddefnyddwyr ffyrdd yn unig wrth gwrs.

Rydym yn datblygu prosiectau mawr i wella'r rhwydwaith ffyrdd ledled Cymru, yn enwedig mewn mannau cyfyng lle y mae tagfeydd yn gallu bod yn broblem fawr. Drwy wneud ein rhwydwaith yn fwy effeithlon, rydym yn gwella cynhyrchiant, a hefyd yn gwella mynediad at swyddi, gwasanaethau a hamdden. Gall gwella mannau cyfyng chwarae rôl bwysig hefyd wrth leihau allyriadau yn gyffredinol, yn ogystal â darparu manteision sylweddol o ran ansawdd aer, sŵn a theithio llesol i gymunedau lleol.

Mae ein cynllun cyllid trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol yn nodi rhaglen dreigl bum mlynedd uchelgeisiol o ymyriadau trafnidiaeth rydym yn eu cyflwyno ar draws Cymru, a diweddarwyd y cynllun ym mis Rhagfyr 2017 gyda bwriad i'w adolygu'n flynyddol er mwyn adlewyrchu datblygiadau dros amser a'r proffil anghenion newidiol ledled Cymru. Mae strategaeth drafnidiaeth gyfredol Cymru, a gyhoeddwyd yn wreiddiol yn 2008, yn cael ei hadolygu hefyd. Bydd y strategaeth honno, a gyhoeddir eleni, yn darparu cyfle i fabwysiadu dulliau newydd o weithredu ac ymgysylltu â rhanddeiliaid yn ystod cyfnodau allweddol ei datblygiad. Mae swyddogion eisoes yn ymgysylltu â Chomisiynydd Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol Cymru ar gyfeiriad y strategaeth hon, a buom yn gweithio gyda chomisiynydd cenedlaethau'r dyfodol ar lansio'r arweiniad ar arfarnu trafnidiaeth Cymru hefyd.

I ategu ein cyllideb gyfalaf, rydym hefyd wedi datblygu amrywiaeth o gynlluniau ariannu arloesol, gan gynnwys y model buddsoddi cydfuddiannol, i ariannu prosiectau cyfalaf mawr. Bydd hyn yn cefnogi buddsoddiad ychwanegol mewn prosiectau seilwaith cymdeithasol ac economaidd ac yn helpu i wella gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ar draws ein gwlad. Mae'r model buddsoddi cydfuddiannol yn cynnwys darpariaethau pwysig i hyrwyddo lles y cyhoedd. Mae'r model yn ymestyn dull y Llywodraeth o weithredu manteision cymunedol, sydd wedi bod yn nodwedd allweddol o'r cynlluniau eraill a gyflawnwyd hyd yma. Mae hefyd yn ymgorffori ein hymrwymiadau i gyflogaeth foesegol a datblygu cynaliadwy, a bydd yn cyfrannu at weithredu Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015. Rydym wedi dweud yn glir na ddefnyddir y model buddsoddi cydfuddiannol os oes mathau eraill o gyfalaf ar gael. Gwn fod swyddogion eisoes wedi briffio'r pwyllgor ar y model, ond darperir cyfarwyddyd pellach yn ystod y broses o gaffael y cynllun model buddsoddi cydfuddiannol cyntaf, sef cwblhau'r gwaith deuoli ar ffordd Blaenau'r Cymoedd, yr A465.

Mae swyddogion yn parhau i gysylltu â gweithredwyr amrywiol ledled y DU er mwyn rhannu arferion gorau, gan gynnwys Transport Scotland, Highways England a chontractwyr lleol. Mae hyn wedi arwain at fanyleb newydd ar gyfer gosod wyneb ar ffyrdd sy'n addas ar gyfer ateb her gwytnwch, cynaliadwyedd ac effeithiau amgylcheddol newid yn yr hinsawdd. Rydym hefyd yn gwbl ymwybodol fod apiau ffonau symudol yn tyfu'n norm, ac y gallent fod yn anhygoel o ddefnyddiol i gynorthwyo gyda chynllunio gwaith cynnal a chadw. Mae'n gydnabyddedig ar draws y diwydiant nad yw arolygon cyfredol yn arfer dull amser real effeithlon, a byddai'r system gwybodaeth ddaearyddol yn gallu amlygu problemau gyda chyflwr ffyrdd a llywio penderfyniadau ar gyfer gwaith cynnal a chadw a gynllunir ar sail dreigl.

Felly, i gloi, Gweinidogion Cymru sy'n uniongyrchol gyfrifol am y rhwydwaith cefnffyrdd a thraffyrdd yng Nghymru ac mae ganddynt ddyletswydd statudol i gynnal ei ddiogelwch a'i weithrediad. Byddwn yn parhau ein buddsoddiad parhaus yn y gwaith o gynnal a chadw a gwella'r ased allweddol hwn.

16:50

Daeth y Llywydd i’r Gadair.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Russell George i ymateb i'r ddadl.

Russell George to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Presiding Officer. I'd like to thank all Members for taking part in this debate this afternoon. I think all Members, or many Members at least—particularly Vikki Howells and David Rowlands—focused their contributions on the recommendations that were not accepted by the Government. Oscar Asghar thanked past member Mark Isherwood for his work on the inquiry. I fully support that as well, but in the interests of fairness I should also like to thank other past members, including Lee Waters, for their contribution to our inquiry and our work as well. Of course, Lee Waters is now the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport and I know that he will be working hard trying to persuade the Minister that our recommendations—in fact, his recommendations—that were not accepted should have indeed been accepted. And I should mention Adam Price as well for he was also a member of the committee during this time, and very much made mention of the app that the Minister referred to in the latter part of his contribution, as well as one of our recommendations.

There was indeed some mocking of our photographic competition, as Rhun mentioned, but largely it was complimentary. And some of the mocking was indeed helpful mocking. Some constituents of my own sent me pictures and didn't submit them formally. I've one picture of somebody fishing in a pothole, sat there on their chair with their fishing rod disappearing into the hole in front of them. But, of course, our competition did create discussion and was particularly useful I think, as well. And I'd like to thank all those who did submit photographs and who shared their photographs with us in this inquiry. I'd also like to thank the Welsh Government trunk roads staff who asked us to share details of the worst holes that we received in case they weren't aware of them as well.

Mend before we build was an issue that a number of Members mentioned during their contributions and I think that this is an important message for communities and to politicians that building more roads should indeed be a last resort rather than the first resort.

The Minister in his response did refer to recommendation 4 regarding budgeting and longer term budgeting for local authorities and trunk road agencies. I do hear your comments. I know the Minister is sympathetic to what we were suggesting, although that recommendation wasn't accepted, and I do understand the points that he makes. But I do think, and I would reiterate again, that longer term planning and longer term budgeting allow better decision making and savings in the long term. But I, again, just hope your Deputy Minister will persuade you of that argument as time goes on.

Diolch, Lywydd. Hoffwn ddiolch i'r holl Aelodau am gymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma. Credaf fod yr holl Aelodau, neu nifer o'r Aelodau o leiaf—yn enwedig Vikki Howells a David Rowlands—wedi canolbwyntio eu cyfraniadau ar yr argymhellion na chafodd eu derbyn gan y Llywodraeth. Diolchodd Oscar Asghar i'r cyn-aelod Mark Isherwood am ei waith ar yr ymchwiliad. Rwy'n ategu hynny'n llwyr hefyd, ond er tegwch, hoffwn ddiolch i gyn-aelodau eraill hefyd, gan gynnwys Lee Waters, am eu cyfraniad i'n hymchwiliad ac i'n gwaith yn ogystal. Wrth gwrs, Lee Waters bellach yw Dirprwy Weinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth a gwn y bydd yn gweithio'n galed i geisio perswadio'r Gweinidog y dylai ein hargymhellion—ei argymhellion ef yn wir—na chafodd eu derbyn fod wedi cael eu derbyn. A dylwn sôn am Adam Price yn ogystal gan ei fod yntau hefyd yn aelod o'r pwyllgor yn ystod yr amser hwn, a soniodd lawer am yr ap y cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog ato yn rhan olaf ei gyfraniad, yn ogystal ag un o'n hargymhellion.

Cafwyd ychydig o wawdio ar ein cystadleuaeth ffotograffig, fel y crybwyllodd Rhun, ond i raddau helaeth roedd yr ymateb yn ganmoliaethus. Ac roedd peth o'r gwawd yn ddefnyddiol yn wir. Anfonodd rhai o fy etholwyr luniau ataf heb eu cyflwyno'n ffurfiol. Mae gennyf un llun o rywun yn pysgota mewn twll yn y ffordd, yn eistedd yno ar eu cadair gyda'u gwialen bysgota'n diflannu i'r twll o'u blaen. Ond wrth gwrs, fe wnaeth ein cystadleuaeth greu trafodaeth ac roedd hynny'n arbennig o ddefnyddiol yn fy marn i. A hoffwn ddiolch i bawb a wnaeth gyflwyno ffotograffau ac a rannodd eu lluniau gyda ni yn yr ymchwiliad hwn. Hoffwn ddiolch hefyd i staff cefnffyrdd Llywodraeth Cymru a ofynnodd inni rannu manylion am y tyllau gwaethaf a ddaeth i law rhag ofn nad oeddent yn ymwybodol ohonynt.

Roedd atgyweirio cyn adeiladu yn fater y soniodd nifer o'r Aelodau yn ei gylch yn ystod eu cyfraniadau, a chredaf fod hon yn neges bwysig i gymunedau ac i wleidyddion, y dylai adeiladu rhagor o ffyrdd fod yn ddewis olaf yn hytrach na dewis cyntaf.

Cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog yn ei ymateb at argymhelliad 4 mewn perthynas â chyllidebu a chyllidebu mwy hirdymor ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol ac asiantaethau cefnffyrdd. Rwy'n clywed eich sylwadau. Gwn fod y Gweinidog yn cydymdeimlo â'r hyn a awgrymwn, er na dderbyniwyd yr argymhelliad hwnnw, ac rwy'n deall y pwyntiau y mae'n ei wneud. Ond rwy'n credu, a hoffwn ailadrodd unwaith eto, fod cynllunio mwy hirdymor a chyllidebu mwy hirdymor yn caniatáu penderfyniadau ac arbedion gwell yn hirdymor. Ond unwaith eto, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd eich Dirprwy Weinidog yn eich perswadio ynglŷn â'r ddadl honno wrth i amser fynd yn ei flaen.

16:55

I'd also like to thank the friendly road crew working for Cardiff council who showed some of the incredible equipment that was being used to fix the surface on a housing estate near Castell Coch. I undertook the visit by myself and it was amazing to see that equipment in action. At one point, if I hadn't moved quickly, I would have been part of that new refurbished road, but I do thank the staff there that supported us as well. And I'd like to thank the committee team, the committee clerking team and the research team, for all their work as well.

I hope that this debate has highlighted the importance of keeping our roads in good condition, not just for cars but for public transport, for transporting goods and for encouraging cycling as well. And, of course, the points that Huw Irranca-Davies made are completely valuable as well in terms of other work that we have done, as I mentioned.

I look forward to seeing how the Minister and his deputy take forward this agenda to deliver better roads in the future. Diolch yn fawr.

Hoffwn ddiolch hefyd i'r criw ffordd cyfeillgar sy'n gweithio i gyngor Caerdydd ac a ddangosodd beth o'r offer anhygoel sy'n cael ei ddefnyddio i osod wyneb ar ffordd ystâd o dai ger Castell Coch. Ymwelais â'r fan fy hun ac roedd hi'n wych gweld yr offer hwnnw ar waith. Ar un pwynt, pe na bawn wedi symud yn gyflym, buaswn yn rhan o'r ffordd newydd honno bellach, ond diolch i'r staff yno a'n cefnogodd hefyd. A hoffwn ddiolch i dîm y pwyllgor, tîm clercio'r pwyllgor a'r tîm ymchwil, am eu holl waith yn ogystal.

Rwy'n gobeithio bod y ddadl wedi tynnu sylw at bwysigrwydd cadw ein ffyrdd mewn cyflwr da, nid yn unig ar gyfer ceir, ond ar gyfer trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, ar gyfer cludo nwyddau ac ar gyfer annog beicio yn ogystal. Ac wrth gwrs, mae'r pwyntiau a wnaeth Huw Irranca-Davies yn gwbl werthfawr hefyd o ran gwaith arall a wnaethom, fel y crybwyllais.

Edrychaf ymlaen at weld sut y mae'r Gweinidog a'i ddirprwy yn bwrw ymlaen â'r agenda hon i ddarparu gwell ffyrdd yn y dyfodol. Diolch yn fawr.

Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

7. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig: Tai
7. Welsh Conservatives Debate: Housing

Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Rebecca Evans, a gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol.

The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Rebecca Evans, and amendments 2, 3 and 4 in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be deselected.

Yr eitem nesaf felly yw dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ar dai, ac rydw i'n galw ar David Melding i wneud y cynnig.

The next item is the Welsh Conservative debate on housing, and I call on David Melding to move the motion.

Cynnig NDM6909 Darren Millar

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

1. Yn cydnabod nad yw nifer y cartrefi sy'n cael eu hadeiladu yng Nghymru yn ddigonol i ateb y galw.

2. Yn gresynu:

a) bod mwy na 27,000 o gartrefi gwag yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd; a

b) bod prisiau tai ar gyfartaledd yng Nghymru fwy neu lai dros 6 gwaith yr enillion cyfartalog oherwydd prinder cartrefi.

3. Yn nodi papur gwyn Ceidwadwyr Cymru, 'Cartrefu Cenedl', sy'n cyflwyno strategaeth gynhwysfawr i fynd i'r afael ag argyfwng tai Cymru a darparu tai addas i bawb.

4. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:

a) cydnabod yr angen i adeiladu o leiaf 100,000 o gartrefi rhwng 2021 a 2031; a

b) rhoi mwy o hyblygrwydd i gymdeithasau tai fel y gallant ddatblygu amrywiaeth o ddeiliadaethau i ateb y galw am dai fforddiadwy.

Motion NDM6909 Darren Millar

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Recognises that the number of homes being built in Wales is inadequate to meet demand.

2. Regrets that:

a) there are currently more than 27,000 empty homes in Wales; and

b) the average house price in Wales is now roughly over 6 times the average earnings due to a shortage of homes.

3. Notes the Welsh Conservatives 'Housing a Nation' white paper which presents a comprehensive strategy to tackle Wales's housing crisis and provide suitable housing for all.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to;

a) acknowledge the need to build at least 100,000 homes between 2021-2031; and

b) give greater flexibility to housing associations so that they can develop a range of tenures to meet the demand for affordable housing.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. I'm delighted to open this debate and can I start with a very happy task and welcome the Minister for Housing and Local Government, Julie James, to her post? Quiet genuinely, it is a matter, I think, we can celebrate that we have again a Minister of Cabinet rank especially designated for housing—although also responsible for another department, but one closely linked to housing in local government. I'm thankful that the First Minister fulfilled a promise I think he made, actually, during his election campaign for the position of Labour leader in designating a housing Minister of Cabinet rank. This is a real step forward.

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Rwy'n falch iawn o agor y ddadl hon ac a gaf fi ddechrau gyda gorchwyl hapus iawn a chroesawu'r Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol, Julie James, i'w swydd? O ddifrif, mae'n fater y gallwn ei ddathlu, yn fy marn i, fod gennym swydd Gweinidog Cabinet unwaith eto wedi'i dynodi'n arbennig ar gyfer tai—ac er ei bod hi'n gyfrifol am adran arall hefyd, mae'n un sy'n cysylltu'n agos â'r maes tai mewn llywodraeth leol. Rwy'n ddiolchgar fod y Prif Weinidog wedi cyflawni addewid a wnaeth, rwy'n credu, yn ystod ei ymgyrch i gael ei ethol yn arweinydd Llafur i ddynodi swydd Gweinidog Cabinet ar gyfer tai. Mae'n gam mawr ymlaen.

I'm going to open this debate with a quote from the previous chief executive of the Home Builders Federation, and I quote:

'All the signs are that, without effective action taken now, Wales is heading for a housing crisis equal to or possibly worse than in the rest of the UK…We are urging the Welsh Assembly that unless urgent action is taken, the country's housing crisis will have severe consequences on the future growth and prosperity of the country as a whole.'

Llywydd, those words were actually spoken in 2004—15 years ago. We've had at least 15 years of warning, perhaps even longer according to other experts, yet here we are trying to combat a broken housing market, which is now one of the greatest barriers to social well-being, and it's hurting ordinary working people the most. 

Only yesterday, Shelter released a report that began with a stark truth about the failures of policy making in the UK in relation to housing and home ownership. I do urge people to at least read the executive summary. I think it's a really important document. If I can quote what the report says:

'we live in a country that is feeling the effects of 40 years of failure in housing policy.'

It's important to be candid here and not to avoid the implications of that for all parties, I think, that have been in Government.

The drop in the number of young families moving into ownership—the report points out the rise of pensioners in insecure, unaffordable private rentals, and the homelessness that scars our society are all everyday reminders of this policy failure. 

The report goes on to predict that unless we tackle this issue head-on, a generation of young families will be trapped renting privately for their whole lives. By 2040, the report calculates that as many as one third of 60-year-olds could be renting privately, facing unaffordable rent increases or eviction at any point. 

The need for a holistic and cohesive strategy to tackle this issue has never been clearer, and the need for a cross-party consensus has never been more needed. All of us in public life have been part of the problem. Now we must join together and build a policy to solve the crisis. This, Llywydd, is what today's debate is all about. Today I urge all Members to support our motion, which puts on record that this Assembly recognises that we simply haven't done enough and we need to do much more. 

Already, the UK Government has begun to recognise the scale of the task ahead of us, and that is what we now need to do here in the Assembly. The UK Government has established a target of 300,000 new homes per year, a target they hope to meet in the 2020s. Indeed, it's one of the reasons that Shelter has issued the report, and it comments on that target quite extensively. 

For those on the front line, the housing crisis means struggling to pay your mortgage or not being able to pay your rent. Others worry about where they'll spend the next night, some ending up, as we know, on the streets, sleeping rough. We cannot allow this to continue. Housing is a basic need and the right to decent housing is as important as the right to healthcare. One thing is certain, we need to build more homes. Many more homes—we believe at least 100,000 new homes in Wales in the 2020s.

To achieve this, clearly we need a new political consensus, because if there's a change of Government or there's a coalition, whatever happens in terms of those responsible for making policy, there must be that consistency that comes from a deep political consensus. That is what we had after the second world war in a 25-year period when both political parties and the other minor parties that were involved in scrutinising that work committed to ambitious housing targets and achieved remarkable things, I think, for the people of Wales and the whole of the UK.

Rwy'n mynd i agor y ddadl hon gyda dyfyniad gan gyn-brif weithredwr y Ffederasiwn Adeiladwyr Cartrefi, ac rwy'n dyfynnu:

Heb weithredu effeithiol yn awr, mae'r holl arwyddion yn dynodi bod Cymru'n anelu am argyfwng tai sydd cyn waethed, neu o bosibl yn waeth, nag yng ngweddill y DU... Oni roddir camau ar waith ar frys, rydym yn pwysleisio wrth Gynulliad Cymru y bydd argyfwng tai'r wlad yn arwain at ganlyniadau difrifol i dwf yn y dyfodol a ffyniant y wlad yn gyffredinol.

Lywydd, siaradwyd y geiriau hynny yn 2004 mewn gwirionedd—15 mlynedd yn ôl. Rydym wedi cael 15 mlynedd o leiaf o rybudd, a hyd yn oed mwy na hynny o bosibl yn ôl arbenigwyr eraill, ond dyma ni yn ceisio ymrafael â marchnad dai doredig, sydd bellach yn un o'r rhwystrau mwyaf i les cymdeithasol, ac sy'n niweidio gweithwyr cyffredin yn fwy na neb.

Ddoe ddiwethaf, rhyddhaodd Shelter adroddiad a oedd yn agor gyda gwirionedd plaen am fethiannau polisi yn y DU o ran tai a pherchentyaeth. Rwy'n annog pobl i ddarllen y crynodeb gweithredol o leiaf. Credaf ei bod hi'n ddogfen bwysig dros ben. Os caf ddyfynnu'r hyn y mae'r adroddiad yn ei ddweud:

rydym yn byw mewn gwlad sy'n teimlo effeithiau 40 mlynedd o fethiant o ran polisi tai.

Yn fy marn i, mae'n bwysig inni fod yn onest yma a pheidio ag osgoi goblygiadau hynny i bob plaid sydd wedi bod mewn Llywodraeth.

Mae'r gostyngiad yn nifer y teuluoedd ifanc sy'n symud tuag at berchnogaeth—mae'r adroddiad yn nodi bod y cynnydd yn nifer y pensiynwyr sy'n byw mewn eiddo rhent preifat ansicr, na allant ei fforddio, a'r digartrefedd sy'n bla ar ein cymdeithas yn ein hatgoffa bob dydd o fethiant y polisi.

Aiff yr adroddiad rhagddo i ragweld y bydd cenhedlaeth o deuluoedd ifanc yn gaeth i rentu preifat drwy gydol eu bywydau oni bai ein bod yn mynd i'r afael â'r mater hwn o ddifrif. Erbyn 2040, mae'r adroddiad yn cyfrifo y gallai cynifer ag un rhan o dair o bobl 60 oed fod yn rhentu'n breifat, gan wynebu cynnydd na allant ei fforddio yn y rhent neu gael eu troi allan ar unrhyw adeg.

Mae'r angen am strategaeth gyfannol a chydlynol i fynd i'r afael â'r mater hwn yn gliriach nag erioed, ac ni fu erioed fwy o angen consensws trawsbleidiol. Mae pawb ohonom mewn bywyd cyhoeddus wedi bod yn rhan o'r broblem. Nawr, rhaid inni ddod at ein gilydd ac adeiladu polisi i ddatrys yr argyfwng. Lywydd, ymwneud â hyn y mae'r ddadl heddiw. Heddiw, rwy'n pwyso ar bob Aelod i gefnogi ein cynnig, sy'n cofnodi bod y Cynulliad hwn yn cydnabod nad ydym wedi gwneud digon a bod angen inni wneud llawer mwy.

Eisoes, mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi dechrau cydnabod maint y dasg sydd o'n blaenau, a dyna sydd angen i ni ei wneud yn awr yma yn y Cynulliad. Mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi sefydlu targed o 300,000 o gartrefi newydd y flwyddyn, targed y maent yn gobeithio ei gyrraedd yn y 2020au. Yn wir, mae'n un o'r rhesymau pam y cyhoeddodd Shelter yr adroddiad, ac mae'n rhoi sylwadau go helaeth ar y targed hwnnw.

I'r rhai ar y rheng flaen, mae'r argyfwng yn golygu anhawster i dalu eich morgais neu fethu talu eich rhent. Mae eraill yn poeni ynglŷn â ble y byddant yn treulio'r nos o'u blaenau, a rhai'n gorfod byw ar y strydoedd, fel y gwyddom, a chysgu ar y stryd. Ni allwn ganiatáu i hyn barhau. Mae tai yn angen sylfaenol ac mae'r hawl i gartref gweddus yr un mor bwysig â'r hawl i ofal iechyd. Mae un peth yn sicr, mae angen inni adeiladu mwy o gartrefi. Llawer mwy o gartrefi—o leiaf 100,000 o gartrefi newydd yng Nghymru yn y 2020au yn ein barn ni.

I gyflawni hyn, mae'n amlwg fod angen inni gael consensws gwleidyddol newydd, oherwydd os yw'r Llywodraeth yn newid neu os ceir clymblaid, beth bynnag sy'n digwydd o ran y rhai sy'n gyfrifol am lunio polisi, rhaid sicrhau'r cysondeb sy'n deillio o gonsensws gwleidyddol dwfn. Dyna a gawsom ar ôl yr ail ryfel byd mewn cyfnod o 25 mlynedd pan ymrwymodd pleidiau gwleidyddol a'r mân bleidiau eraill a oedd yn rhan o'r broses o graffu ar y gwaith hwnnw i dargedau uchelgeisiol ar gyfer tai a llwyddo i gyflawni pethau rhyfeddol, rwy'n credu, ar ran pobl Cymru a'r DU gyfan.

Demand for housing has outstripped supply in Wales, as it has across the UK. For many, many years, this has been the case. The extra requirements for housing mainly came about as a result of the increase in the number of households, especially one-person households, which reflect more modern living, but also other factors, such as the rise in population.

The Welsh Conservative Party has issued its own housing strategy, 'Housing a Nation'. I know some of you have asked for it, and I've been happy to distribute it, and some of you have commented very constructively. Obviously, there'll be things in it that you will not share completely, in terms of the emphasis that we would place on those issues, but we really believe that it's important that we set out our vision and that we get the discussion started. I'm really grateful to everyone who's taken an interest in that. Our present ideas, then, map out a route so that we can begin to solve the challenges ahead, but, obviously, it's for others, now, to join together and for us all to form that consensual position.

We discuss affordability and home ownership, the issue of land and its supply, and developments in construction and innovation. We put greater emphasis on the variety, suitability and design of housing. We propose greater collaboration between housing associations and local authorities, and put forward ideas to encourage greater community engagement. We raise the issue of employment within the construction sector, and the upskilling of experienced workers who risk falling behind the evolution of housing standards, particularly with more modern building techniques. This is an area that rarely gets talked about in any debate, really, on housing, but it really is quite crucial, and I'm glad the Shelter report does mention it, because there's a great opportunity here for us. As Shelter emphasise, the importance of residential construction to the domestic economy is vast, with one of the highest multipliers that have been calculated, standing at 184 per cent. So, it's a really good activity for the economy as well as the massive social need it meets.

We also talk about the sustainable building of homes—not just sustainable in terms of their materials but sustainable for adaptability in the future so that they're not merely suitable today but suitable for their whole lives.

As I said, our ideas are not the be-all and end-all. We've put them forward, actually, as a White Paper, to get greater stakeholder and political engagement, so that we can be informed about what works and what doesn't.

I think, Llywydd, I need just to mention briefly some of the costs that might be involved. Again, I recommend that people have a look at the Shelter report. It does deal with England only, but it's not difficult to read over and to make some calculations. Most of the costs will involve capital investment and borrowing, particularly in the early part of their term.

Shelter do calculate on a 20-year programme, and our own housing strategy looks at a 10-year programme. Anyway, if you look at Shelter, they asked Capital Economics to estimate the type of level of expenditures that would be required—this for England. The average additional borrowing per annum for that programme was calculated at £3.8 billion. If you read across to Wales, that would be £190 million. It's a substantial sum of money, but in the previous debate we were hearing about transport infrastructure and the costs there. Peak borrowing in the English programme is calculated at £5.4 billion. If you read across to Wales, that would be something like £270 million.

This is part of the new consensus that we need—that we need to borrow. I think we all have various views about how to manage austerity, but borrowing for infrastructure, which pays back—houses don't run away and people pay rent—is something that we need now to focus on. The Welsh Government would get our support in advancing these arguments as well, because borrowing for investment that's clearly needed is an intelligent thing to do. 

So, Llywydd, the Welsh Conservatives stand ready to work with the Welsh Government. This is a genuine offer, and I know that we need to replicate that success that we had after the second world war. So, let's end the petty politicking, and let's work together to meet Wales's great housing challenges. Diolch yn fawr.  

Mae'r galw am dai yn fwy na'r cyflenwad yng Nghymru, fel y mae ledled y DU. Mae hyn wedi bod yn wir ers blynyddoedd lawer. Cododd y galw ychwanegol am dai yn bennaf o ganlyniad i'r cynnydd yn nifer yr aelwydydd, yn enwedig aelwydydd un person, sy'n adlewyrchu ffordd o fyw mwy modern, a ffactorau eraill hefyd, megis y cynnydd yn y boblogaeth.

Mae'r Blaid Geidwadol yng Nghymru wedi cyhoeddi ei strategaeth dai ei hun, 'Cartrefu Cenedl'. Gwn fod rhai ohonoch wedi gofyn amdani, ac rwyf wedi bod yn hapus i'w dosbarthu, ac mae rhai ohonoch wedi gwneud sylwadau adeiladol iawn. Yn amlwg, bydd pethau ynddi na fyddwch yn eu rhannu'n gyfan gwbl, o ran y pwyslais y byddem yn ei osod ar y materion hynny, ond rydym yn credu o ddifrif ei bod hi'n bwysig inni nodi ein gweledigaeth a'n bod yn agor y drafodaeth. Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i bawb sydd wedi dangos diddordeb yn hynny. Mae ein syniadau presennol, felly, yn mapio llwybr fel y gallwn ddechrau datrys yr heriau sydd o'n blaenau, ond yn amlwg, mater i eraill, bellach, yw dod ynghyd ac i bawb ohonom ffurfio'r safbwynt cydsyniol hwnnw.

Rydym yn trafod fforddiadwyedd a pherchentyaeth, tir a chyflenwad tir, a datblygiadau o ran adeiladu ac arloesedd. Rydym yn rhoi mwy o bwyslais ar amrywiaeth, addasrwydd a dyluniad tai. Rydym yn argymell mwy o gydweithredu rhwng cymdeithasau tai ac awdurdodau lleol, ac yn cyflwyno syniadau i annog mwy o ymgysylltiad cymunedol. Rydym yn codi mater cyflogaeth yn y sector adeiladu, a gwella sgiliau gweithwyr profiadol sydd mewn perygl o syrthio ar ôl gydag esblygiad safonau tai, yn enwedig gyda thechnegau adeiladu mwy modern. Dyma faes nad yw'n cael ei drafod yn aml mewn unrhyw ddadl ynglŷn â thai mewn gwirionedd, ond mae'n gwbl hanfodol, ac rwy'n falch fod adroddiad Shelter yn rhoi sylw iddo, gan fod cyfle gwych yma i ni. Fel y mae Shelter yn ei bwysleisio, mae pwysigrwydd adeiladu preswyl i'r economi ddomestig yn helaeth, gydag un o'r lluosyddion uchaf a gyfrifwyd, sef 184 y cant. Felly, mae'n weithgaredd da iawn ar gyfer yr economi yn ogystal â'r angen cymdeithasol enfawr y mae'n ei ddiwallu.

Rydym hefyd yn sôn am adeiladu cartrefi cynaliadwy—nid yn unig o ran eu deunyddiau ond cynaliadwy o ran eu hyblygrwydd yn y dyfodol fel eu bod yn addas am eu hoes gyfan, nid ar gyfer heddiw'n unig.

Fel y dywedais, nid ein syniadau yw'r gair olaf ar bopeth. Rydym wedi eu cyflwyno, mewn gwirionedd, fel Papur Gwyn, i gael mwy o ymgysylltiad â rhanddeiliaid a gwleidyddion, i ni allu dysgu beth sy'n gweithio a beth nad yw'n gweithio.

Lywydd, rwy'n credu bod angen imi sôn yn fyr am rai o'r costau a allai fod ynghlwm wrth hyn. Unwaith eto, rwy'n argymell y dylai pobl edrych ar adroddiad Shelter. Mae'n ymdrin â Lloegr yn unig, ond nid yw'n anodd ei drosi a gwneud cyfrifiadau. Bydd mwyafrif y costau'n cynnwys buddsoddi a benthyca cyfalaf, yn enwedig yn rhan gynnar eu tymor.

Mae Shelter yn cyfrifo ar gyfer rhaglen 20 mlynedd, ac mae ein strategaeth dai ein hunain yn edrych ar raglen 10 mlynedd. Beth bynnag, os edrychwch ar Shelter, fe wnaethant ofyn i Capital Economics amcangyfrif y math o lefel o wariant a fyddai'n ofynnol—hyn ar gyfer Lloegr. Cyfrifwyd y byddai cyfartaledd y benthyciad ychwanegol y flwyddyn ar gyfer y rhaglen honno yn £3.8 biliwn. Os troswch hyn ar gyfer Cymru, byddai'n £190 miliwn. Mae'n swm sylweddol o arian, ond yn y ddadl flaenorol clywsom am seilwaith trafnidiaeth a'r costau sydd ynghlwm wrth hynny. Cyfrifir y bydd uchafswm y benthyciad yn y rhaglen ar gyfer Lloegr yn £5.4 biliwn. Os troswch hyn ar gyfer Cymru, byddai hynny'n rhywbeth fel £270 miliwn.

Mae hyn yn rhan o'r consensws newydd sydd ei angen arnom—fod angen inni fenthyca. Credaf fod gan bawb ohonom safbwyntiau amrywiol ynglŷn â sut i reoli cyni, ond mae benthyca ar gyfer seilwaith sy'n talu nôl—nid yw tai'n rhedeg i ffwrdd ac mae pobl yn talu rhent—yn rhywbeth y mae angen inni ganolbwyntio arno yn awr. Byddai Llywodraeth Cymru yn cael ein cefnogaeth i hyrwyddo'r dadleuon hyn yn ogystal, oherwydd mae benthyca ar gyfer buddsoddiad sy'n amlwg yn angenrheidiol yn beth deallus i'w wneud.

Felly, Lywydd, mae'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn barod i weithio gyda Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae'n gynnig diffuant, a gwn fod angen inni ailadrodd y llwyddiant a gawsom ar ôl yr ail ryfel byd. Felly, gadewch inni roi diwedd ar wleidydda pitw, a gadewch inni weithio gyda'n gilydd i oresgyn yr heriau mawr sy'n wynebu Cymru ym maes tai. Diolch yn fawr.  

17:10

Rwyf wedi dethol y pedwar gwelliant i'r cynnig, ac os derbynnir gwelliant 1 caiff gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol. Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol i gynnig yn ffurfiol welliant 1 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans.  

I have selected the four amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be deselected. I call on the Minister for Housing and Local Government to move formally amendment 1 tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. 

Gwelliant 1—Rebecca Evans

Dileu popeth a rhoi yn ei le:

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

1. Yn cydnabod:

a) y buddsoddiad mwyaf erioed mewn tai gan Lywodraeth Cymru.

b) bod angen asesiad newydd o’r angen a’r galw am dai, yn seiliedig ar y data diweddaraf a’r amcanestyniadau aelwydydd diweddaraf.

2. Yn croesawu:

a) ymrwymiad Llywodraeth Cymru i ddarparu 20,000 o dai fforddiadwy yn ystod tymor y Llywodraeth hon, sydd ar y trywydd iawn ac a fydd yn cael ei gyflawni mewn partneriaeth â’r sector tai.

b) cyflwyno treth trafodiadau tir yng Nghymru a’r trothwy cychwynnol o £180,000 ar gyfer y prif gyfraddau preswyl, sy’n golygu nad yw’r rhan fwyaf o brynwyr tai, a mwyafrif y prynwyr tro cyntaf, yn talu treth o gwbl pan fyddant yn prynu cartref.

3. Yn cydnabod ymrwymiad parhaus Llywodraeth Cymru i dai cymdeithasol, sydd wedi parhau’n flaenoriaeth sylfaenol, gan gefnogi’r bobl fwyaf agored i niwed a diogelu ein stoc bresennol o dai cymdeithasol, yn wahanol i Loegr.

4. Yn nodi’r hyblygrwydd sydd ar gael i gymdeithasau tai er mwyn iddynt allu datblygu ystod o ddeiliadaethau i fodloni’r galw am dai fforddiadwy.

Amendment 1—Rebecca Evans

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Recognises:

a) the record investment being made in housing by the Welsh Government.

b) that a new assessment of housing need and demand is necessary, based on up-to-date data and the latest household projections.

2. Welcomes:

a) the Welsh Government commitment to deliver 20,000 affordable homes during this term of government, which is on track and will be delivered in partnership with the housing sector.

b) the introduction of land transaction tax in Wales and the £180,000 starting threshold for the main residential rate, which means that the majority of homebuyers, and the vast majority of first-time buyers, pay no tax when buying a home.

3. Acknowledges the Welsh Government’s continuing commitment to social housing, which has remained a fundamental priority, supporting the most vulnerable and protecting our existing social housing stock, unlike in England.

4. Notes the flexibility available to housing associations so they can develop a range of tenures to meet the demand for affordable housing.

Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.

Amendment 1 moved.

Formally. 

Yn ffurfiol.

Galwaf nawr ar Leanne Wood i gynnig gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rhun ap Iorwerth. Leanne Wood. 

I call on Leanne Wood to move amendments 2, 3 and 4 tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Leanne Wood. 

Gwelliant 2—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Ym mhwynt 1, ar ôl 'sy'n cael eu hadeiladu', mewnosoder 'yn y sector tai cymdeithasol'.

Gwelliant 3—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Ym mhwynt 2, dileu is-bwynt (b) a rhoi yn ei le:

bod cyflogau isel, cyflogaeth ansicr a rhenti uchel yn rhwystrau sylweddol i berchnogaeth cartrefi.

Gwelliant 4—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Dileu pwyntiau 3 a 4 a rhoi yn eu lle:

Yn nodi bod digartrefedd wedi cynyddu’n sylweddol, a bod hyn wedi costio llawer mwy i wasanaethau cyhoeddus nag y byddai wedi ei gostio i atal digartrefedd.

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:

a) cefnogi cymdeithasau tai ac awdurdodau lleol i gynyddu’r stoc tai cymdeithasol drwy wneud y gorau o’u gallu i gael mynediad at gyllid at y diben hwn, gan gynnwys drwy bwerau benthyca Llywodraeth Cymru;

b) gweithredu argymhellion adroddaid Crisis, 'Everybody In: How to end homelessness in Great Britain';

c) sicrhau bod cynlluniau datblygu lleol yn cynnwys gofyniad i fuddsoddi mewn gwasanaethau cymdeithasol er mwyn sicrhau y gall datblygiadau newydd ddod yn gymunedau cynaliadwy; a

d) sicrhau bod cynlluniau datblygu lleol yn cynnwys cyfran sylweddol fwy o dai cymdeithasol.

Amendment 2—Rhun ap Iorwerth

In point 1, after 'being built', insert 'in the social housing sector'.

Amendment 3—Rhun ap Iorwerth

In point 2, delete sub-point (b) and replace with:

that low wages, insecure employment and high rents present significant barriers to home ownership.

Amendment 4—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Delete points 3 and 4 and replace with:

Notes that homelessness has risen substantially, and that this has cost public services considerably more than it would have cost to prevent homelessness.

Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) support housing associations and local authorities to increase the social housing stock through maximising their ability to access finance for this purpose, including through the use of Welsh Government borrowing powers;

b) implement the recommendations of the Crisis report, 'Everybody In: How to end homelessness in Great Britain';

c) ensure that local development plans include a requirement for investment in public services in order that new developments can become sustainable communities; and

d) ensure that local development plans include a substantially greater proportion of social housing.

Cynigiwyd gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4.

Amendments 2, 3 and 4 moved.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. I move the amendments.

This is, of course, a very important debate, and I agree that we need to find a consensus on this question if it is at all possible, but we also need to be clear on what exactly the problems that we are trying to solve are, and this is what our amendments seek to do. And we will be contributing further to this debate with the Plaid Cymru consultation publication on housing in due course. 

So, to be clear on the true nature of the housing shortage, let's take one projection of future housing demand to illustrate the point that I want to make. A Public Policy Institute for Wales report on the future need and demand for housing estimates that between 2011 and 2031 an additional 8,700 housing units are needed each year. Of these, 63 per cent would be in the market sector—that's 5,500 a year—and 37 per cent in the social sector—that's 3,300 a year. But if population growth is higher, then the report estimates that we need 12,000 units a year, of which 35 per cent would need to be in the social housing sector—that's 4,200 per year. 

Now, let's take a look at house building over the last 20 years and how it relates to the figures that I've just provided. Between 1997 and 2007, there were an average of 7,591 units completed in the market sector each year. Between 2007 and 2017, that figure dropped to an average of 5,573 units. In both decades, the level of performance will be enough to meet the PPIW's main predictions of need, but if performance similar to the last decade continues, then that would cause supply problems in the event of the higher population estimates turn out to be correct.

We can see from these figures that the supply of housing from the market sector, therefore, is sufficient. But if we look at the performance in social housing, a very different picture emerges indeed. Between 1997 and 2007, just 825 new units of social housing were built each year, and that only increases to 850 each year in the last 10 years. But the Public Policy Institute for Wales estimate that we need between 3,300 and 4,200 additional units of social housing every year, yet just 850 homes when we need over 4,000. That gap is absolutely staggering.

So, we must be clear that it's social housing where the greatest supply shortage is. Too often, the view that we need more houses is one that's used as a lobbying tool for watering down planning laws and building regulations, and for railroading local development plans against local opposition that don't consider at all how to create sustainable communities. None of those solutions will actually solve our housing problems. They say nothing about homelessness, and that solving homelessness means a relentless focus on increasing social housing. So, we have to resist those vested interests by making sure that the motion before us is clearer on this point, and is clear that housing supply must be about the creation of communities, not just units in concrete jungles unsupported by public services.

We also have to recognise that the overwhelming barrier to home ownership is low wages, insecure employment and high rents that prohibit many young people from saving for a deposit. More six-bedroomed homes in the suburbs will do nothing to help those people get onto the housing ladder.

The debate today has been brought forward by the Conservatives following the publication of their policy paper on housing, a paper that does not recognise the underlying causes of the crisis that we're in: that is, the decisions of successive Governments to underinvest in social housing and to put the responsibility for providing shelter—a fundamental human right—into the hands of private companies seeking profit. The Tory party are responsible for decimating our housing stock, introducing the bedroom tax and implementing welfare changes that have made thousands of people homeless, so forgive me if I am skeptical that they've suddenly found their conscience on this issue. I hope, in clarifying the problems in housing supply, that we can begin to find solutions that will make a difference to the lives of people here in Wales rather than to the profit of developers. We need a programme of mass building of social housing in order to solve this crisis and we need it urgently. 

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Rwy'n cynnig y gwelliannau.

Mae hon yn ddadl bwysig iawn wrth gwrs, ac rwy'n cytuno bod angen inni ddod o hyd i gonsensws ar y cwestiwn hwn os yw'n bosibl, ond mae angen inni fod yn glir hefyd ynglŷn â beth yn union yw'r problemau rydym yn ceisio'u datrys, a dyna mae ein gwelliannau'n ceisio ei wneud. A byddwn yn cyfrannu ymhellach at y ddadl hon drwy gyhoeddi ymgynghoriad Plaid Cymru ar dai maes o law.

Felly, i fod yn glir ynglŷn â gwir natur y prinder tai, gadewch i ni gymryd un amcanestyniad o'r galw am dai yn y dyfodol i ddangos y pwynt yr hoffwn ei wneud. Mae adroddiad gan y Sefydliad Polisi Cyhoeddus i Gymru ar angen a galw am dai yn y dyfodol yn amcangyfrif y bydd angen 8,700 o unedau tai ychwanegol bob blwyddyn rhwng 2011 a 2031. O'r rhain, byddai 63 y cant yn y sector marchnad—sef 5,500 y flwyddyn—a 37 y cant yn y sector cymdeithasol—sef 3,300 flwyddyn. Ond os bydd y twf yn y boblogaeth yn fwy, mae'r adroddiad yn amcangyfrif y byddwn angen 12,000 o unedau y flwyddyn, a byddai angen i 35 y cant ohonynt fod yn y sector tai cymdeithasol—sef 4,200 y flwyddyn.

Nawr, gadewch i ni edrych ar adeiladu tai dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf a sut y mae'n berthnasol i'r ffigurau rwyf newydd eu rhoi. Rhwng 1997 a 2007, cafodd cyfartaledd o 7,591 o unedau eu cwblhau yn sector marchnad bob blwyddyn. Rhwng 2007 a 2017, gostyngodd y ffigur hwnnw i gyfartaledd o 5,573 o unedau. Yn y ddau ddegawd, bydd lefel y perfformiad yn ddigon i ateb prif ragfynegiadau o angen y Sefydliad Polisi Cyhoeddus i Gymru, ond os yw'r perfformiad yn parhau'n debyg i'r degawd diwethaf, byddai'n achosi problemau o ran y cyflenwad os yw'r amcangyfrifon uwch ar gyfer y boblogaeth yn gywir.

Gallwn weld o'r ffigurau hyn fod y cyflenwad tai o'r sector marchnad yn ddigonol felly. Ond os edrychwn ar y perfformiad mewn tai cymdeithasol, gwelwn ddarlun gwahanol iawn. Rhwng 1997 a 2007, 825 yn unig o unedau newydd o dai cymdeithasol a adeiladwyd bob blwyddyn, ac nid yw ond wedi codi i 850 bob blwyddyn yn y 10 mlynedd diwethaf. Ond mae'r Sefydliad Polisi Cyhoeddus i Gymru yn amcangyfrif bod angen rhwng 3,300 a 4,200 o unedau ychwanegol o dai cymdeithasol arnom bob blwyddyn, ac eto 850 yn unig o gartrefi, pan fo angen dros 4,000 arnom. Mae'r bwlch hwnnw'n gwbl syfrdanol.

Felly, rhaid inni fod yn glir mai ym maes tai cymdeithasol y mae'r prinder mwyaf yn y cyflenwad. Yn rhy aml, defnyddir y farn fod arnom angen rhagor o dai fel arf lobïo ar gyfer glastwreiddio deddfau cynllunio a rheoliadau adeiladu, ac ar gyfer gwthio cynlluniau datblygu lleol drwodd yn erbyn gwrthwynebiad lleol, cynlluniau nad ydynt yn rhoi unrhyw ystyriaeth i sut i greu cymunedau cynaliadwy. Ni fydd unrhyw un o'r atebion hynny'n datrys ein problemau tai mewn gwirionedd. Nid ydynt yn dweud dim am ddigartrefedd, a bod datrys digartrefedd yn golygu ffocws diwyro ar gynyddu tai cymdeithasol. Felly, rhaid inni ymwrthod â'r buddiannau breintiedig hynny drwy wneud yn siŵr fod y cynnig ger ein bron yn gliriach ar y pwynt hwn, ac yn nodi'n amlwg fod yn rhaid i'r cyflenwad tai ymwneud â chreu cymunedau, nid unedau mewn jyngl goncrit heb eu cynnal gan wasanaethau cyhoeddus.

Rhaid inni hefyd gydnabod mai'r rhwystr pennaf i berchentyaeth yw cyflogau isel, cyflogaeth ansicr a rhenti uchel sy'n atal llawer o bobl ifanc rhag cynilo ar gyfer blaendal. Ni fydd rhagor o gartrefi chwe ystafell wely yn y maestrefi yn gwneud dim i helpu'r bobl hynny i gael troed ar yr ysgol dai.

Cyflwynwyd y ddadl heddiw gan y Ceidwadwyr yn sgil cyhoeddi eu papur polisi ar dai, papur nad yw'n cydnabod y ffactorau sylfaenol sy'n achosi'r argyfwng rydym yn ei wynebu: hynny yw, penderfyniadau Llywodraethau olynol i danfuddsoddi mewn tai cymdeithasol ac i roi'r cyfrifoldeb am ddarparu lloches—hawl ddynol sylfaenol—yn nwylo cwmnïau preifat sy'n ceisio gwneud elw. Mae'r blaid Dorïaidd yn gyfrifol am ddinistrio ein stoc dai, gan gyflwyno'r dreth ystafell wely a gweithredu newidiadau i'r system les sydd wedi peri i filoedd o bobl fod yn ddigartref, felly maddeuwch imi os wyf yn amheus eu bod yn sydyn wedi dod o hyd i'w cydwybod ar y mater hwn. Wrth egluro'r problemau yn y cyflenwad tai, gobeithio y gallwn ddechrau dod o hyd i atebion a fydd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth i fywydau pobl yma yng Nghymru yn hytrach nag i elw datblygwyr tai. Mae angen rhaglen ar gyfer adeiladu nifer fawr o dai cymdeithasol er mwyn datrys yr argyfwng hwn ac mae ei hangen ar frys.

17:15

I'm pleased to contribute to today's debate and to support this motion—a motion that was moved very eloquently, as usual, by David Melding at the start of this debate, and he made some very important points.

I think we all know that we've got a problem when it comes to housing in Wales. Let's face it, as Leanne Wood just said, we've had that problem for a considerable length of time, so there aren't going to be any quick fixes when it comes to the provision of homes. Quite simply, whichever way you look at it, we haven't got enough homes to meet demand. Or probably, to be more accurate, we haven't got enough of the right type of homes to meet demand at appropriate points in people's lives, because those demands do change through people's lives. At the very least, we don't have enough homes that are adaptable. Last year, I was very pleased to be asked to open a small new housing development in my home village of Raglan, a development by Monmouthshire Housing Association of around five or six houses—highly sought-after homes. I was struck by both the quality of the construction, but also the adaptability of the homes so that people, whether they were in their early 20s, whether they were single, whether they were having children or whether they were older, in their 60s, 70s or 80s, would be able to stay in those homes throughout their lives and wouldn't move if they didn't want to. I thought that was a great concept and one that needs to be developed.

Of course, housing associations are doing their best to meet demand, due in no small part to the cost of buying your own home nowadays. As David Melding said, house prices are now roughly around six times average earnings—in some cases more—due to the shortage that we face. So, we do need to build more, but not just more. We need to address the fact that there are also—let's not forget—an estimated 27,000 empty homes in Wales as I stand here talking about these statistics. Let's do what we can to bring those into use, because that must be an efficient way to proceed. I think if we satisfy the public that spare capacity—what spare capacity there is—is being used, then there will be fewer objections to developments. And let's face it, there are, I'm sure, in all our constituencies, some developments that are more controversial than others. Those developments will be more acceptable if people feel that spare housing stock is being brought into use. This doesn't mean, though, that planning should—pardon the pun—go out of the window. And I don't believe we should be building at any cost—far from it. We need a streamlined, robust planning process that has the confidence of the public and delivers in a way that is acceptable to local authorities but also acceptable to the public. Let's strive to have the best planning process, the most streamlined planning process, we possibly can here in Wales. 

I thought Leanne Wood made an excellent point, when you said, Leanne, that we need to build sustainable communities, not just sustainable houses. I think too often we talk about those things as though they're detached. We have debates on communities in this Chamber, and today we're having a debate on housing, and sometimes we seem to act as though they're totally separate and they shouldn't be. At the end of the day, housing developments that are built should be well served. They should have sustainability at their heart. They should be compliant with the future generations legislation. That's another piece of legislation we often talk about in this Chamber, but then we go on to talk about other topics without realising that that legislation should be at the heart of building. So, if we're going to build a development in a village in a rural area, of course it's going to be controversial if it's not well supported by sustainable transport, if we're allowing those houses to be built and then expecting people to rely on the motor car, sometimes two or three in a family, or to rely on taxis or to rely on whatever means it means. I'm not saying there has to be a rail link to every village, but there has to be an appreciation that new homes do need sustainable infrastructure, sustainable local services, sustainable schools. How often are developments constructed without proper thought for local schools and services like that?

So, there is a lot to be done, but I think that at the heart of this must be: yes, we need more houses, but we also need more quality houses. And I'll finish, Presiding Officer, by just talking about Electrical Safety First, a charity I met very recently with over the Christmas period. They stressed the need to make sure that modern houses are built to a high standard that avoids the high presence of electrical fires, and they gave me one statistic, which I will finish with, which is that over-80-year-olds are four times more likely to die in an electrical fire than anyone else. We don't currently have mandatory electrical safety checks in our housing stock in Wales. Perhaps we should. There are loads of areas where we could actually move things on, particularly, as I said, with the planning process.

Rwy'n falch o gyfrannu at y ddadl heddiw ac o gefnogi'r cynnig hwn—cynnig a wnaed yn huawdl iawn, fel arfer, gan David Melding ar ddechrau'r ddadl hon, ac fe wnaeth bwyntiau pwysig iawn.

Credaf ein bod i gyd yn gwybod fod gennym broblem mewn perthynas â thai yng Nghymru. Gadewch inni wynebu'r ffaith, fel y mae Leanne Wood newydd ei ddweud, mae'r broblem honno wedi bod gyda ni ers cryn dipyn o amser, felly nid ydym yn mynd i weld unrhyw atebion cyflym o ran darparu cartrefi. Yn syml iawn, pa ffordd bynnag yr edrychwch ar y mater, nid oes gennym ddigon o gartrefi i ateb y galw. Neu, i fod yn fwy cywir mae'n debyg, nid oes gennym ddigon o'r math cywir o dai i ateb y galw ar adegau priodol ym mywydau pobl, gan fod y galwadau hynny'n newid drwy gydol bywydau pobl. Fan lleiaf, nid oes gennym ddigon o gartrefi y gellir eu haddasu. Y llynedd, roeddwn yn falch iawn o gael gwahoddiad i agor datblygiad tai newydd bach yn y pentref lle rwy'n byw, sef Rhaglan, datblygiad gan Gymdeithas Tai Sir Fynwy o oddeutu pump neu chwech o dai—cartrefi poblogaidd iawn. Fe'm trawyd gan ansawdd y gwaith adeiladu, a hefyd gan ba mor addasadwy oedd y cartrefi fel bod pobl, boed yn eu 20au cynnar, yn sengl, yn cael plant neu'n hŷn, yn eu 60au, eu 70au neu eu 80au, yn gallu aros yn y cartrefi hynny drwy gydol eu bywydau ac na fyddent yn symud os nad oeddent eisiau gwneud hynny. Roeddwn yn credu bod hwnnw'n gysyniad gwych ac yn un y mae angen ei ddatblygu.

Wrth gwrs, mae cymdeithasau tai yn gwneud eu gorau i ateb y galw, yn sgil y gost, yn anad dim, o brynu eich cartref eich hun y dyddiau hyn. Fel y dywedodd David Melding, mae prisiau tai bellach o gwmpas chwe gwaith y cyflog cyfartalog—mwy mewn rhai achosion—o ganlyniad i'r prinder a wynebwn. Felly, mae angen inni adeiladu rhagor, ond nid rhagor yn unig. Mae angen inni roi sylw i'r ffaith hefyd—gadewch inni beidio ag anghofio—fod 27,000 amcangyfrifedig o gartrefi gwag yng Nghymru wrth imi sefyll yma'n siarad am yr ystadegau hyn. Gadewch inni wneud yr hyn a allwn i ddefnyddio'r rheini unwaith eto, oherwydd rhaid bod honno'n ffordd effeithlon o symud ymlaen. Os gallwn fodloni'r cyhoedd fod y capasiti dros ben—cymaint o gapasiti dros ben ag sy'n bodoli—yn cael ei ddefnyddio, yna bydd llai o wrthwynebiadau i ddatblygiadau. A gadewch i ni wynebu'r ffaith bod yna rai datblygiadau, oes, rwy'n siŵr, yn ein hetholaethau, sy'n fwy dadleuol nag eraill. Bydd y datblygiadau hynny'n fwy derbyniol os yw pobl yn teimlo bod y stoc dai dros ben yn cael ei defnyddio. Nid yw hyn yn golygu, er hynny, y dylid troi cefn ar gynllunio. Ac nid wyf yn credu y dylem fod yn adeiladu ar unrhyw gost—dim o gwbl. Mae angen proses gynllunio sy'n llyfn a chadarn ac sy'n ennyn hyder y cyhoedd ac yn cyflawni mewn ffordd sy'n dderbyniol i awdurdodau lleol ond hefyd yn dderbyniol i'r cyhoedd. Gadewch i ni ymdrechu i gael y broses gynllunio orau, y broses gynllunio fwyaf llyfn y gallwn ei chael yma yng Nghymru.

Roeddwn yn meddwl bod Leanne Wood wedi gwneud pwynt ardderchog, pan ddywedasoch, Leanne, fod angen inni adeiladu cymunedau cynaliadwy, nid tai cynaliadwy yn unig. Credaf ein bod yn rhy aml yn sôn am y pethau hynny fel pe baent yn annibynnol ar ei gilydd. Rydym yn cael dadleuon am gymunedau yn y Siambr hon, a heddiw rydym yn cael dadl ar dai, ac weithiau mae'n ymddangos fel pe baem yn gweithredu fel pe baent yn gwbl annibynnol ar ei gilydd ac ni ddylent fod. Yn y pen draw, dylai datblygiadau tai a adeiladir gael eu gwasanaethu'n dda. Dylai fod cynaliadwyedd yn ganolog iddynt. Dylent gydymffurfio â deddfwriaeth cenedlaethau'r dyfodol. Dyna ddeddfwriaeth arall y soniwn amdani'n aml yn y Siambr hon, ond awn ati wedyn i siarad am bynciau eraill heb sylweddoli y dylai'r ddeddfwriaeth honno fod yn ganolog i adeiladu. Felly, os ydym yn mynd i adeiladu datblygiad mewn pentref neu ardal yng nghefn gwlad, wrth gwrs y bydd yn ddadleuol os nad yw'n cael ei gynnal yn dda gan drafnidiaeth gynaliadwy, os ydym yn caniatáu i'r tai hynny gael eu hadeiladu a disgwyl i bobl ddibynnu ar y car, dau neu dri mewn teulu weithiau, neu i ddibynnu ar dacsis neu i ddibynnu ar beth bynnag y mae'n ei olygu. Nid wyf yn dweud bod yn rhaid cael cyswllt rheilffordd i bob pentref, ond rhaid cydnabod bod cartrefi newydd angen seilwaith cynaliadwy, gwasanaethau lleol cynaliadwy, ysgolion cynaliadwy. Pa mor aml y caiff datblygiadau eu hadeiladu heb ystyriaeth briodol i ysgolion lleol a gwasanaethau o'r fath?

Felly, mae llawer i'w wneud, ond wrth wraidd hyn, rwy'n credu bod rhaid dweud: oes, mae angen mwy o dai, ond mae angen mwy o dai o safon hefyd. Ac fe orffennaf, Lywydd, drwy sôn am Electrical Safety First, elusen y cyfarfûm â hi yn ddiweddar dros gyfnod y Nadolig. Roeddent yn pwysleisio'r angen i wneud yn siŵr fod tai modern yn cael eu hadeiladu i safon uchel sy'n osgoi lefelau uchel o danau trydan, a rhoddasant un ystadegyn i mi, ac rwyf am orffen gyda hyn, sef bod pobl dros 80 oed bedair gwaith yn fwy tebygol o farw mewn tân trydan na neb arall. Ar hyn o bryd nid oes gennym archwiliadau diogelwch trydanol gorfodol yn ein stoc dai yng Nghymru. Efallai y dylem eu cael. Ceir digonedd o feysydd lle y gallem symud pethau yn eu blaenau mewn gwirionedd, yn enwedig, fel y dywedais, gyda'r broses gynllunio.

17:20

First, can I welcome this debate and also welcome the Conservatives' 'Housing a Nation' White Paper? I don't agree with it all, but I think it's a good place for us to start talking. I don't believe we discuss housing anywhere near enough in the Assembly, and also the far too much general talk of housing is based around rising house prices being good for homeowners and mortgage payers as opposed to bad for first-time buyers, people renting and those who are inadequately housed, which includes a lot of my constituents.

Housing is the great challenge facing all of Britain, including Wales. The post-war period in terms of housing can be broken down into two periods: first, the period 1945 to 1980. During this period, we saw a huge growth in council housing, the building of a large number of new estates, especially in larger urban areas. We also saw the growth of owner-occupation and the start of building of large private estates, again predominantly in the larger urban areas.

Over recent years, there has been a large increase in the number of empty properties. I've heard all sorts of numbers, between 16,000 and 27,000. If I use the term 'over 20,000', to me, that's over 20,000 too many. A number of these, including some in my constituency, are in places people actually want to live. They're not sort of out in 'who'd want to live there?' People often want to live there; it's just that they've just been left. Something's got to be done about this. There's also been the increase in—. Housing tenure, there's been an increase in the number of single-person households, because people have got older and more young people are living alone, an increase in pensioner households, an increase in young people in houses of multiple occupation, especially, but not exclusively, students. Council housing has declined through the sale of a large number of houses and a failure to build new ones. There's also been a substantial growth in housing association properties but nowhere near enough to make up for the decline in council house building.

The decline in the private rented sector of the 1960s and 1970s has been reversed, with a huge increase in private landlords, both the large-scale owners and those using an additional property as an alternative to a pension. As a consequence of benefit changes, demand has increased for smaller size accommodation. Since 1980, we have seen almost a complete end to council house building, the growth of owner-occupation, which has stalled, and the growth of housing associations into major landlords has occurred, but they're not going anywhere near making up for the loss in council houses.

During the whole of this period, we've seen a reduction in the average number of adults living in each property, and the sale of council housing has had a serious effect on the housing market. It has reduced the supply of council housing, and that has increased demand for both housing association properties and privately rented. Anybody who's gone around council estates campaigning will have noted the number of 'for rent' signs—privately rented—on properties built by councils in the past. And can I let you know that the rents are substantially higher than the council charge?

There were two periods in the twentieth century when housing supply did a reasonable job of meeting housing demand and need. The first was between the wars, when cities expanded horizontally into the suburban development of green fields, assisted by government initiatives, and builders could offer affordable home ownership to people on middle to low incomes. And that was because we didn't have a planning Act. I don't think anybody wants to do away with the Town and Country Planning Act 1947, as amended, so the other option, after the second world war, was council housing, which, at one stage, accounted for roughly half the number of houses built. Anybody who follows elections—if you look at the British general election in 1974, at the book that is produced after each election, you will see the number of constituencies, mainly in Scotland, where over 50 per cent of the housing was council, but, in a large part of Wales, including my constituency, over 40 per cent of the housing was council.

So, we're now in a situation where we've got to do something. The number of private houses being built has always stayed roughly similar—it's gone up and down a little, but it's been fairly similar. Because, let's be honest, if you were a major house builder, why would you want to build surplus? If you build surplus, house prices will come down; you'll have empty properties. You want to keep demand high. And I don't blame the house builders for that; they'd be doing their shareholders a disservice. So, something has got to take up the slack. The only thing that's effectively taking up the slack is council housing, so that's where we've got to go.

We have seen some local authorities, including my own in Swansea, starting building council houses, but they need to be built on scale. I mean, if you look—. The First Minister represents possibly the largest council estate in Wales, based in Ely. I represent one of the largest council estate areas, which really is a number of different names, but it stretches from Clase to Blaenymaes, across the north of Swansea. These provided houses for people. There are large obstacles to a renaissance of council-house building, including, but not only, the obvious one of money. How do we get around it? Well, allow councils to borrow against the value of their stock. I think that—.

Can I just finish with two points? We need to build a substantial number of council houses and we need to bring more empty properties back into use. Bring the 20,000 empty properties back into use, get council houses built. And, if I'd had time, I'd have said how important co-operative houses were.

Yn gyntaf, a gaf fi groesawu'r ddadl hon a chroesawu hefyd y Papur Gwyn 'Cartrefu Cenedl' gan y Ceidwadwyr? Nid wyf yn cytuno â'r cyfan ohono, ond credaf ei fod yn lle da i ni ddechrau siarad. Nid wyf yn credu ein bod yn trafod agos digon ar dai yn y Cynulliad, ac mae llawer gormod o siarad cyffredinol am dai yn seiliedig ar fod cynnydd mewn prisiau tai yn dda i berchnogion tai a thalwyr morgeisi yn hytrach na'i fod yn ddrwg i brynwyr tro cyntaf, pobl sy'n rhentu a phobl heb gartrefi digon da, sy'n cynnwys llawer o fy etholwyr.

Tai yw'r her fawr sy'n wynebu Prydain gyfan, gan gynnwys Cymru. Gellir rhannu'r cyfnod ar ôl y rhyfel yn ddau gyfnod mewn perthynas â thai: yn gyntaf, y cyfnod rhwng 1945 a 1980. Yn ystod y cyfnod hwn, gwelwyd twf aruthrol yn niferoedd tai cyngor, adeiladu nifer fawr o ystadau newydd, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd trefol mwy o faint. Hefyd, gwelsom dwf perchen-feddiannaeth a dechrau adeiladu ystadau preifat mawr, unwaith eto yn yr ardaloedd trefol mwy o faint yn bennaf.

Dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, gwelwyd cynnydd mawr yn nifer yr adeiladau gwag. Clywais bob math o ffigurau, rhwng 16,000 a 27,000. Os defnyddiaf y term 'dros 20,000', i mi, mae hynny'n golygu dros 20,000 yn ormod. Mae nifer o'r rhain, gan gynnwys rhai yn fy etholaeth i, mewn lleoedd y mae pobl eisiau byw ynddynt mewn gwirionedd. Nid ydynt allan mewn mannau 'pwy fyddai am fyw yno?' math o beth. Yn aml mae pobl eisiau byw yno, ond maent wedi cael eu gadael yn wag, dyna i gyd. Rhaid gwneud rhywbeth ynglŷn â hyn. Gwelwyd cynnydd hefyd mewn—. Deiliadaeth tai, gwelwyd cynnydd yn nifer yr aelwydydd un person, gan fod pobl wedi tyfu'n hŷn ac mae mwy o bobl ifanc yn byw ar eu pen eu hunain, cynnydd yn nifer yr aelwydydd pensiynwyr, cynnydd yn nifer y bobl ifanc mewn tai amlfeddiant, yn enwedig myfyrwyr, er nad myfyrwyr yn unig. Mae niferoedd tai cyngor wedi gostwng yn sgil gwerthu nifer fawr o dai a methiant i adeiladu rhai newydd. Cynyddodd eiddo cymdeithasau tai yn sylweddol ond nid yw'n hanner digon i wneud iawn am y gostyngiad yn nifer y tai cyngor a adeiladwyd.

Mae'r dirywiad yn y sector rhentu preifat yn y 1960au a'r 1970au wedi'i wrthdroi, gyda chynnydd enfawr yn nifer y landlordiaid preifat, yn berchnogion ar raddfa fawr a rhai sy'n defnyddio eiddo ychwanegol fel dewis arall yn lle pensiwn. O ganlyniad i newidiadau i fudd-daliadau, mae'r galw wedi cynyddu am lety llai o faint. Ers 1980, rydym wedi gweld diwedd bron yn llwyr ar adeiladu tai cyngor, twf perchen-feddiannaeth, sydd wedi arafu, ac mae twf cymdeithasau tai yn landlordiaid mawr wedi digwydd, ond nid yw hyn yn mynd yn agos at wneud iawn am y tai cyngor a gollwyd.

Yn ystod yr holl gyfnod hwn, rydym wedi gweld gostyngiad yn nifer gyfartalog yr oedolion sy'n byw ym mhob eiddo, ac mae gwerthu tai cyngor wedi cael effaith ddifrifol ar y farchnad dai. Mae wedi lleihau'r cyflenwad o dai cyngor, ac mae hynny wedi cynyddu'r galw am eiddo cymdeithasau tai ac eiddo rhent preifat. Bydd unrhyw un sydd wedi bod o gwmpas ystadau cyngor yn ymgyrchu wedi nodi nifer yr arwyddion 'ar rent'—rhent preifat—ar eiddo a adeiladwyd gan gynghorau yn y gorffennol. Ac a gaf fi ddweud wrthych fod y rhenti gryn dipyn yn uwch na'r hyn y mae'r cyngor yn ei ofyn?

Roedd dau gyfnod yn ystod yr ugeinfed ganrif pan lwyddodd y cyflenwad tai i fodloni'r galw a'r angen am dai yn eithaf da. Y cyfnod cyntaf oedd rhwng y ddau ryfel byd, pan ehangodd dinasoedd yn llorweddol i ddatblygu caeau gwyrdd maestrefol, gyda chymorth mentrau llywodraeth, a gallai adeiladwyr gynnig perchentyaeth fforddiadwy i bobl ar incwm canolig i isel. Ac roedd hynny oherwydd nad oedd gennym Ddeddf cynllunio. Nid wyf yn meddwl bod unrhyw un eisiau cael gwared ar Ddeddf Cynllunio Gwlad a Thref 1947, fel y'i diwygiwyd, felly y dewis arall, ar ôl yr ail ryfel byd, oedd tai cyngor, ac ar un adeg, dyna oedd oddeutu hanner y nifer o dai a adeiladwyd. Bydd unrhyw un sy'n astudio etholiadau—os edrychwch ar yr etholiad cyffredinol ym Mhrydain yn 1974, ar y llyfr sy'n cael ei gynhyrchu ar ôl pob etholiad, fe welwch nifer yr etholaethau, yn bennaf yn yr Alban, lle'r oedd dros 50 y cant o'r tai yn dai cyngor, ond mewn rhan fawr o Gymru, gan gynnwys fy etholaeth i, roedd dros 40 y cant o'r tai yn dai cyngor.

Felly, rydym mewn sefyllfa bellach lle y mae'n rhaid gwneud rhywbeth. Mae nifer y tai preifat a adeiladir bob amser wedi aros yn eithaf tebyg—mae wedi codi a disgyn ychydig, ond mae wedi bod yn weddol debyg. Oherwydd, gadewch inni fod yn onest, os oeddech yn gwmni adeiladu tai mawr, pam y byddech eisiau adeiladu gormod o dai? Os adeiladwch ormod o dai, bydd prisiau tai yn disgyn; bydd gennych eiddo gwag. Rydych eisiau cadw'r galw'n uchel. Ac nid wyf yn beio'r cwmnïau adeiladu tai am hynny; byddent yn gwneud anghymwynas â'u cyfranddalwyr. Felly, rhaid i rywbeth ddal y slac yn dynn. Yr unig beth sy'n dal y slac yn dynn yn effeithiol yw tai cyngor, felly dyna lle y mae'n rhaid inni fynd.

Rydym wedi gweld rhai awdurdodau lleol, gan gynnwys fy awdurdod fy hun yn Abertawe, yn dechrau adeiladu tai cyngor, ond mae angen iddynt gael eu hadeiladu ar raddfa fawr. Hynny yw, os edrychwch—. Mae Prif Weinidog Cymru yn cynrychioli'r ystâd o dai cyngor fwyaf yng Nghymru, yn Nhrelái. Rwy'n cynrychioli un o'r ardaloedd mwyaf o ystadau tai cyngor, sy'n nifer o enwau gwahanol mewn gwirionedd, ond mae'n ymestyn o'r Clâs i Flaen-y-maes, ar draws gogledd Abertawe. Roedd y rhain yn darparu tai ar gyfer pobl. Ceir rhwystrau mawr i ddadeni mewn adeiladu tai cyngor, gan gynnwys yr un amlwg, sef arian, er nad hynny'n unig. Sut y gallwn ei oresgyn? Wel, caniatáu i gynghorau fenthyca yn erbyn gwerth eu stoc. Credaf fod—.

A gaf fi orffen gyda dau bwynt? Mae angen inni adeiladu nifer sylweddol o dai cyngor ac mae angen inni ailddechrau defnyddio mwy o eiddo gwag unwaith eto. Ailddechreuwch ddefnyddio'r 20,000 o adeiladau gwag, adeiladwch dai cyngor. A phe bai gennyf amser, buaswn wedi dweud pa mor bwysig oedd tai cydweithredol.

17:25

It's a pleasure to follow Mike Hedges, and I think most of the points he's made about council housing and the importance of building for social rent are well made. I would, however, emphasise that, whatever the exact target we have—and, in our motion, we call for, I think, 10,000 houses a year; the Government has a different target and perhaps different proportions, but, in all those, it's likely that the majority of that housing is going to need to come from the private sector, and, as Mike rightly observes, house builders are there primarily to make profits for their shareholders.

Now, one thing we've seen in south-east Wales, where I'm going to focus my remarks, is, in some areas particularly, a significant rise in house prices. On the Office for National Statistics numbers from September to November, the last three months available, the year-on-year increase has been over 13 per cent in both Newport and Torfaen and close to 11 per cent in Monmouthshire. Now, I hear from many in Plaid, but also, to a degree, within Labour, a lot of emphasis on people being priced out of housing potentially, in consequence, and also some perhaps who could be more welcoming to people coming into Wales—complaints about, 'Why should we deal with Bristol overspill?', for instance. And I would just like to emphasise the positive elements of this. We have people with really quite higher salaries in Bristol who are coming to live in Wales and are spending money locally, and, from April, will be paying the Welsh rates of income tax, so potentially giving more money for us to spend on public services.

And it is also those house price rises that, in turn, are bringing back really a very significant increase in house building. David Melding referred to the importance of that for the economy as a whole: 8 per cent of our economy, 8 per cent of our employment, is in construction and it's one of the areas where you do see economies growing quickly, and we want the Welsh economy to grow quickly. It is construction, almost invariably, which accelerates far faster than the economy as a whole, and that is a good thing and something we should want to see, and are beginning to see, in parts of south-east Wales. To a degree, it is supported by Welsh Government policy in terms of the Help to Buy and the proportion of that money that is going into these fast-growing areas. In Torfaen, just as recently as 2015-16, we had only 130 housing starts. In 2016-17, that went to 215—a 50 per cent increase—a similar increase the next year to 284, in 2017-18. And, in just the first six months of 2018-19, that annual figure has been surpassed: 299 starts—so, that rate of house building doubling year on year after three years of substantial increase before. And, if we look at Newport, in 2017-18, there were over 1,000 housing starts in the Newport council area, and that compares to 6,000 in Wales as a whole—

Mae'n bleser cael dilyn Mike Hedges, a chredaf fod y rhan fwyaf o'r pwyntiau a wnaeth am dai cyngor a phwysigrwydd adeiladu ar gyfer rhentu cymdeithasol yn rhai da. Fodd bynnag, buaswn yn pwysleisio, beth bynnag yw'r union darged sydd gennym—ac yn ein cynnig, galwn am 10,000 o dai y flwyddyn, rwy'n credu; mae gan y Llywodraeth darged gwahanol a chyfrannau gwahanol efallai, ond yn y rheini i gyd, mae'n debygol y bydd yn rhaid i'r rhan fwyaf o'r tai hynny ddod o'r sector preifat, ac fel y mae Mike yn ei nodi'n briodol, mae cwmnïau adeiladu tai yno'n bennaf i wneud elw i'w cyfranddalwyr.

Nawr, un peth a welsom yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru, lle rwyf am ganolbwyntio fy sylwadau, yw cynnydd sylweddol ym mhrisiau tai, mewn rhai ardaloedd yn enwedig. Ar rifau'r Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol o fis Medi i fis Tachwedd, y tri mis diwethaf sydd ar gael, roedd y cynnydd o un flwyddyn i'r llall yn 13 y cant a rhagor yng Nghasnewydd a Thorfaen ac yn agos at 11 y cant yn Sir Fynwy. Nawr, clywaf gryn bwyslais gan sawl un ym Mhlaid Cymru, ond o fewn y Blaid Lafur hefyd i raddau, ar y posibilrwydd fod pobl yn cael eu prisio allan o'r farchnad dai o ganlyniad, a rhai efallai a allai fod yn fwy croesawgar tuag at bobl sy'n dod i mewn i Gymru—cwynion fel, 'Pam y dylem ymdopi â gorlif Bryste?', er enghraifft. A hoffwn bwysleisio elfennau cadarnhaol hyn. Mae gennym bobl ar gyflogau cryn dipyn yn uwch ym Mryste sy'n dod i fyw yng Nghymru ac yn gwario arian yn lleol, ac o fis Ebrill ymlaen, byddant yn talu cyfraddau Cymru o dreth incwm, gan roi mwy o arian o bosibl i ni ei wario ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus.

A'r cynnydd hwn ym mhrisiau tai sydd, yn ei dro, yn ailgyflwyno cynnydd gwirioneddol sylweddol yn nifer y tai a adeiladir. Cyfeiriodd David Melding at bwysigrwydd hynny i'r economi yn ei chyfanrwydd: mae 8 y cant o'n heconomi, 8 y cant o'n cyflogaeth, yn y diwydiant adeiladu ac mae'n un o'r meysydd lle y gwelwch economïau'n tyfu'n gyflym, ac rydym eisiau i economi Cymru dyfu'n gyflym. Adeiladu, bron yn ddieithriad, sy'n cyflymu'n llawer cyflymach na'r economi yn ei chyfanrwydd, ac mae hynny'n beth da ac yn rhywbeth y dylem fod eisiau ei weld, ac rydym yn dechrau ei weld mewn rhannau o dde-ddwyrain Cymru. I raddau, fe'i cefnogir gan bolisi Llywodraeth Cymru ar ffurf Cymorth i Brynu a chyfran yr arian hwnnw sy'n mynd i'r ardaloedd hyn sy'n tyfu'n gyflym. Yn Nhorfaen, mor ddiweddar â 2015-16, dim ond 130 o dai a gafodd eu dechrau. Yn 2016-17, cododd i 215—cynnydd o 50 y cant—a chynnydd tebyg y flwyddyn wedyn i 284, yn 2017-18. Ac yn ystod chwe mis cyntaf 2018-19 yn unig, maent wedi rhagori ar y ffigur blynyddol hwnnw: 299 o dai wedi'u dechrau—felly, cyfradd adeiladu tai sy'n dyblu o un flwyddyn i'r llall ar ôl tair blynedd o gynnydd sylweddol cynt. Ac os edrychwn ar Gasnewydd, yn 2017-18, dechreuwyd dros 1,000 o dai newydd yn ardal cyngor Casnewydd, ac mae hynny'n cymharu â 6,000 yng Nghymru yn ei chyfanrwydd—

17:30

Will you take an intervention?

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

I know that housing was a big part of the campaign in Caerphilly, and as a UKIP candidate, he was campaigning with that team in Caerphilly. Their position was diametrically opposed to everything that he's saying now, so will he just disavow what he said during the election campaign in 2016?

Gwn fod tai yn rhan fawr o'r ymgyrch yng Nghaerffili, ac fel ymgeisydd UKIP, roedd yn ymgyrchu gyda'r tîm hwnnw yng Nghaerffili. Roedd eu safbwynt yn gwbl groes i bopeth y mae'n ei ddweud yn awr, felly a yw'n mynd i wadu'r hyn a ddywedodd yn ystod ymgyrch yr etholiad yn 2016?

Well, I thought I was in some agreement with the Member on this, and in particular, the Caerphilly LDP and going and ripping that up and looking to start again, and some of the proposals for building on Caerphilly mountain and how those would be dependent on car use and the need to link up with what was happening in the Cardiff LDP. I thought that was all sensible and I thought that there was a degree of agreement between us within that.

But certainly, in the numbers in Caerphilly, the building has been less than these big increases we've seen in Torfaen and Newport, which I wanted to emphasise. And I think they relate to the ending of the Severn tolls. We will see economic growth because the Severn tolls have gone, but also, the house building, in turn, is helping to drive that economic growth. You're going to say, 'Oh, but there was more housing equity', but actually, that's really important. If the value of people's houses goes up, one of the things that leads to is substantially more business formation and business growth. And, when I look at the levels of new business formation or entrepreneurship in south-east Wales and compare that to what I saw before in south-east England, I don't believe that there is a difference in the entrepreneurialism of the individuals or even necessarily that much in the skills that people bring to those businesses. The big difference is the availability of housing equity, and we have some good stuff from the Wales Development Bank, but overall, private sector banks find it very difficult to lend to small, upstart businesses where they don't have security. Yet, if the directors are in a position to give a personal guarantee of housing equity, then there is a lot more business lending, which drives a lot more economic growth through small businesses, and that's something I think we should welcome and support that house building and what it's doing for the overall economy, driven by south-east Wales. Let's encourage it.

Wel, roeddwn yn meddwl fy mod yn cytuno i ryw raddau gyda'r Aelod ar hyn, ac yn benodol, cynllun datblygu lleol Caerffili a rhwygo hwnnw a cheisio dechrau eto, a rhai o'r cynigion ar gyfer adeiladu ar fynydd Caerffili a sut y byddai'r rheini'n ddibynnol ar y defnydd o gar a'r angen i gysylltu â'r hyn a oedd yn digwydd yng nghynllun datblygu lleol Caerdydd. Roeddwn yn meddwl bod hynny i gyd yn synhwyrol ac roeddwn yn meddwl ein bod yn cytuno ar hynny i ryw raddau.

Ond yn sicr, o ran y niferoedd yng Nghaerffili, mae'r adeiladu wedi bod yn llai na'r cynnydd mawr a welsom yn Nhorfaen a Chasnewydd, ac roeddwn yn awyddus i bwysleisio hynny. Ac rwy'n credu eu bod yn ymwneud â rhoi diwedd ar dollau Hafren. Byddwn yn gweld twf economaidd oherwydd bod tollau'r Hafren wedi mynd, ond yn ei dro, mae adeiladu tai hefyd yn helpu i sbarduno'r twf economaidd hwnnw. Rydych yn mynd i ddweud, 'O, ond roedd mwy o ecwiti tai', ond mewn gwirionedd, mae hynny'n wirioneddol bwysig. Os yw gwerth tai pobl yn codi, un o'r pethau y mae hynny'n arwain ato yw creu cryn dipyn yn fwy o fusnesau a thwf busnesau. A phan edrychaf ar y lefelau o fusnesau newydd sy'n cael eu ffurfio neu entrepreneuriaeth yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru a chymharu hynny â'r hyn a welais yn flaenorol yn ne-ddwyrain Lloegr, nid wyf yn credu bod gwahaniaeth o ran entrepreneuriaeth yr unigolion na chymaint â hynny hyd yn oed yn y sgiliau y mae pobl yn eu dwyn i'r busnesau hynny o reidrwydd. Y gwahaniaeth mawr yw argaeledd ecwiti tai, ac mae gennym bethau da gan Fanc Datblygu Cymru, ond yn gyffredinol, mae banciau sector preifat yn ei chael hi'n anodd iawn rhoi benthyg i fusnesau bach sy'n dechrau pan nad oes ganddynt warantau. Eto, os yw'r cyfarwyddwyr mewn sefyllfa i roi gwarant bersonol o ecwiti tai, ceir llawer mwy o fenthyca i fusnesau, sy'n gyrru llawer mwy o dwf economaidd drwy fusnesau bach, ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth y credaf y dylem ei groesawu a chefnogi'r adeiladu hwnnw a'r hyn y mae'n ei wneud i'r economi yn gyffredinol, wedi ei yrru gan dde-ddwyrain Cymru. Gadewch i ni ei annog.

Thanks to the Conservatives for bringing today's debate on housing. We support the Conservative motion today; we think it's quite focused and concentrates on the need to increase housing supply. It's actually fairly flexible in the suggestions it makes as to how to increase that supply. 

The Labour amendment follows a particular pattern that we're getting quite used to in the Assembly, in that it basically states that the Welsh Government is doing enough. This is often what we get from Government amendments. And, of course, I appreciate that the Welsh Government is doing things in the field of housing, but the danger, of course, is one of complacency. If we look at the Conservative motion and the Labour amendment together, it is clear that there is a discrepancy between the two different targets for house building. I do think that Labour's target is fairly modest and that, even if it is achieved, it will not address the entirety of the demand for affordable homes in Wales. So, we in the UKIP group don't agree fully with the Labour amendment that, today, we oppose.

I was going to say that the Plaid amendments raise issues with which we partially agree, but then, Leanne Wood made a very good case for the need to focus on social housing, which was backed up by statistics. So, I think we do need to look at what level of social housing we need to bring into play. Certainly, I think there is a need to focus on social housing to a large extent, but I don't think we should necessarily focus on social housing to the exclusion of all else. I think we do need a mixture of affordable new housing. Part of the Plaid amendments do deal at length with the issue of homelessness, which, of course, is a massive concern. I do think that there are so many elements of that, though, that perhaps those points require another debate to deal with them.

Now, Labour have a target of 20,000 new affordable homes over a five-year term, which equals 4,000 homes a year. The Conservatives today state the target, referencing their earlier report, of 100,000 in a 10-year period, which equals 10,000 homes a year. We also have the figures from Dr Alan Holmans that suggested that Wales might need 12,000 new homes a year. So, if Dr Holmans is correct, the Conservatives' target seems more meaningful than the Labour one. The housing Minister here today will probably agree that no target is really meaningful unless it's achievable, but we do prefer the greater ambition of the Conservative target.

Another problem is how to ensure that the homes built actually are affordable, and this is a big problem with a lot of private developments; when they come on the market, they simply aren't affordable for many people and there are also problems with the amount of affordable housing that is initially part of the planning agreements. Sometimes, this seems to get overridden in the process of the house builders actually developing their schemes. So, that, I think, does need looking at. That's a planning issue.

I think there may be other ways of getting more affordable housing by utilising the private sector. For instance, we need to look more at modular housing, which is relatively cheap to build, can be erected quickly, and can help to create jobs. But building these kinds of houses does need different skills to traditional housing methods, so we do need to ensure that we have enough skilled people to work on these schemes. I know that the previous housing Minister, Rebecca Evans, was working to develop this sector, and I hope that her very capable successor will continue with this work. It does require an interactive approach between the Welsh Government, the private sector and further education colleges. 

We also need to encourage more infill development and small-scale housing developments, which will tend to be attractive not to the large house builders, but rather to the SMEs, which I do think need to play a bigger part in the house building industry in Wales. We could also do more to encourage brownfield development. There is also considerable demand from people wanting to build their own homes. According to opinion polls, some 53 per cent of people have expressed an interest in this, and rates of self-building are much higher in some western European countries than here in Wales—notably Austria, where 80 per cent of houses are self-built. In the UK, the figure is only 7 per cent to 10 per cent. So, I don't know if we can do anything in Wales to encourage this part of the housing sector.

There are other things we can do to alleviate the—[Interruption.] Of course, yes.

Diolch i'r Ceidwadwyr am gyflwyno'r ddadl heddiw ar dai. Rydym yn cefnogi cynnig y Ceidwadwyr heddiw; rydym yn credu ei fod yn eithaf clir ac yn canolbwyntio ar yr angen i gynyddu'r cyflenwad tai. Mae'n weddol hyblyg mewn gwirionedd o ran yr awgrymiadau y mae'n eu gwneud ynglŷn â sut i gynyddu'r cyflenwad hwnnw.

Mae gwelliant Llafur yn dilyn patrwm penodol rydym yn dod yn gwbl gyfarwydd ag ef yn y Cynulliad, yn yr ystyr ei fod yn datgan yn y bôn fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud digon. Yn aml, dyma a gawn gan welliannau'r Llywodraeth. Ac wrth gwrs, rwy'n derbyn bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud pethau ym maes tai, ond y perygl, wrth gwrs, yw hunanfodlonrwydd. Os edrychwn ar gynnig y Ceidwadwyr a gwelliant y Blaid Lafur gyda'i gilydd, mae'n amlwg fod anghysondeb rhwng y ddau darged gwahanol ar gyfer adeiladu tai. Rwy'n credu bod targed y Blaid Lafur yn weddol fach a hyd yn oed os caiff ei gyrraedd, ni fydd yn ateb y galw am dai fforddiadwy yng Nghymru yn llawn. Felly, nid ydym ni yng ngrŵp UKIP yn cytuno'n llwyr â'r gwelliant Llafur, a byddwn yn ei wrthwynebu heddiw.

Roeddwn yn mynd i ddweud bod gwelliannau Plaid Cymru'n codi materion rydym yn cytuno â hwy'n rhannol, ond wedyn gwnaeth Leanne Wood achos da iawn dros yr angen i ganolbwyntio ar dai cymdeithasol, a chafodd hynny ei ategu gan ystadegau. Felly, rwy'n credu bod angen i ni edrych ar ba lefel o dai cymdeithasol y mae angen inni ei hystyried. Yn bendant, rwy'n credu bod angen canolbwyntio ar dai cymdeithasol i raddau helaeth, ond ni chredaf y dylem o reidrwydd ganolbwyntio ar dai cymdeithasol ac eithrio popeth arall. Credaf fod angen cymysgedd o dai newydd fforddiadwy. Mae rhan o welliannau Plaid Cymru yn ymdrin yn drylwyr â mater digartrefedd, sydd, wrth gwrs, yn destun pryder enfawr. Credaf fod cymaint o elfennau'n perthyn i'r mater er hynny, ac efallai fod angen dadl arall ar gyfer ymdrin â'r pwyntiau hynny.

Nawr, mae gan Lafur darged o 20,000 o gartrefi fforddiadwy newydd dros gyfnod o bum mlynedd, sy'n cyfateb i 4,000 o gartrefi y flwyddyn. Heddiw, mae'r Ceidwadwyr yn datgan targed, gan gyfeirio at eu hadroddiad cynharach, o 100,000 mewn cyfnod o 10 mlynedd, sy'n cyfateb i 10,000 o gartrefi'r flwyddyn. Mae gennym ffigurau gan Dr Alan Holmans hefyd a oedd yn awgrymu y gallai Cymru fod angen 12,000 o gartrefi newydd y flwyddyn. Felly, os yw Dr Holmans yn gywir, mae targed y Ceidwadwyr i'w weld yn fwy ystyrlon nag un Llafur. Heddiw bydd y Gweinidog tai yma'n cytuno yn ôl pob tebyg nad oes unrhyw darged yn ystyrlon mewn gwirionedd oni bai ei fod yn gyraeddadwy, ond mae'n well gennym uchelgais ehangach y targed Ceidwadol.

Problem arall yw sut i sicrhau bod y cartrefi a adeiladir yn fforddiadwy mewn gwirionedd, ac mae hon yn broblem fawr gyda llawer o ddatblygiadau preifat; pan fyddant yn dod ar y farchnad, nid ydynt yn fforddiadwy i lawer o bobl a cheir problemau hefyd o ran faint o dai fforddiadwy sy'n rhan o'r cytundebau cynllunio ar y cychwyn. Weithiau, ymddengys bod hyn yn cael ei ddiystyru pan fydd cwmnïau adeiladu tai'n datblygu eu cynlluniau. Felly, credaf fod angen edrych ar hynny. Mater cynllunio yw hynny.

Rwy'n credu y gallai fod ffyrdd eraill o gael mwy o dai fforddiadwy drwy ddefnyddio'r sector preifat. Er enghraifft, mae angen inni edrych yn fanylach ar dai modiwlar, sy'n gymharol rhad i'w hadeiladu, yn bosibl eu codi'n gyflym, ac yn gallu helpu i greu swyddi. Ond mae adeiladu'r mathau hyn o dai yn galw am sgiliau gwahanol yn lle dulliau traddodiadol o adeiladu tai, felly mae angen inni sicrhau bod gennym ddigon o bobl fedrus i weithio ar y cynlluniau hyn. Gwn fod y Gweinidog tai blaenorol, Rebecca Evans, yn gweithio i ddatblygu'r sector hwn, a gobeithiaf y bydd ei holynydd galluog iawn yn parhau gyda'r gwaith hwn. Mae'n galw am ddull rhyngweithiol rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru, y sector preifat a cholegau addysg bellach.

Hefyd, mae angen inni annog mwy o ddatblygiadau mewnlenwi a datblygiadau tai ar raddfa fach, sy'n tueddu i fod yn ddeniadol, nid i'r cwmnïau adeiladu mawr ond yn hytrach i'r busnesau bach a chanolig y credaf fod angen iddynt chwarae rhan fwy yn y diwydiant adeiladu tai yng Nghymru. Hefyd gallem wneud mwy i annog datblygu safleoedd tir llwyd. Ceir cryn dipyn o alw hefyd gan bobl sy'n awyddus i adeiladu eu cartrefi eu hunain. Yn ôl arolygon barn, mae oddeutu 53 y cant o bobl wedi mynegi diddordeb yn hyn, ac mae cyfraddau hunanadeiladu yn llawer uwch yn rhai o'r gwledydd Ewropeaidd gorllewinol nag yma yng Nghymru—yn arbennig Awstria, lle y mae 80 y cant o dai wedi'u hunanadeiladu. Yn y DU, y ffigur yw 7 y cant i 10 y cant yn unig. Felly, nid wyf yn gwybod a allwn wneud rhywbeth yng Nghymru i annog y rhan hon o'r sector tai.

Mae yna bethau eraill y gallwn eu gwneud i liniaru'r—[Torri ar draws.] Wrth gwrs, iawn.

17:35

The problem is land and getting access to land, and that's why you've got a difficulty with the self-build sector.

Y broblem yw tir a chael mynediad at dir, a dyna pam y mae gennych anhawster gyda'r sector hunanadeiladu.

Yes, I appreciate that there probably are difficulties over access to land. I think it's worth looking at, but I understand it is a major challenge.

Empty homes are another issue, and there is a measure that local councils can bring in called 'empty dwelling management Orders', which could force the hand of developers who are leaving properties empty for long periods. So, these can be used, perhaps, under some circumstances. There's also the vacant land tax, which I know is pending, and I do await the Government bringing details of that to the Chamber. Certainly, that's a measure that UKIP would probably favour. So, there are a variety of measures that could be used. The key factor is that we do end up with significantly more homes in Wales that are affordable. Diolch yn fawr.

Ie, rwy'n derbyn bod anawsterau gyda mynediad at dir mae'n debyg. Credaf ei bod hi'n werth edrych ar hynny, ond deallaf ei bod yn her fawr.

Mae cartrefi gwag yn fater arall, ac mae mesur y gall cynghorau lleol ei gyflwyno a elwir yn 'Orchmynion rheoli anheddau gwag', a gallai greu gorfodaeth ar ddatblygwyr sy'n gadael adeiladau'n wag am gyfnodau hir. Felly, gellir defnyddio'r rhain, efallai, mewn rhai amgylchiadau. Ceir y dreth ar dir gwag hefyd, a gwn fod honno ar y gweill, ac rwy'n disgwyl i'r Llywodraeth ddod â manylion hynny i'r Siambr. Yn sicr, dyna'r mesur y byddai UKIP yn ei ffafrio mae'n debyg. Felly, ceir amrywiaeth o fesurau y gellid eu defnyddio. Y ffactor allweddol yw sicrhau y bydd gennym nifer gryn dipyn yn fwy yn y pen draw o gartrefi yng Nghymru sy'n fforddiadwy. Diolch yn fawr.

When we talk about housing generically in debates like this, I think it's quite easy to avoid the specifics of the types of housing that we need, where it's needed, and maybe even thinking about where we don't need it any more; we might want to change the use of some of our existing stock. 

I think it's also helpful to move away from this kind of whiff of goodies and baddies, which are sometimes characterised in some of our housing debates, because what we're after here, as David Melding said right at the beginning, is consensus on a direction that we can take. Because, despite the quality public housing that, actually, Mike Hedges was talking about earlier, built between the wars in Swansea, some of them are still in places of persistent deprivation, and I think we can all point to other housing estates, council estates—built in various places that I've lived and worked in anyway—built in the 1960s and 1970s, that I think would even shock us now, despite the quality standards and so forth and despite being taken over by housing associations, simply because of the way they were designed in the first place. These are things that we need to avoid from now on. 

My parents were children in—

Pan soniwn am dai mewn modd generig mewn dadleuon fel hon, credaf ei bod yn eithaf hawdd osgoi manylion y mathau o dai sydd eu hangen arnom, lle y mae eu hangen, a meddwl hyd yn oed lle nad oes arnom eu hangen bellach o bosibl; gallem fod eisiau newid defnydd peth o'n stoc bresennol.

Rwy'n credu ei bod hi hefyd yn ddefnyddiol inni symud oddi wrth y math hwn o feddwl yn nhermau da a drwg sydd weithiau'n cael sylw yn rhai o'n dadleuon ar dai, oherwydd yr hyn rydym ei eisiau yma, fel y dywedodd David Melding ar y dechrau un, yw consensws ar gyfeiriad y gallwn ei gymryd. Oherwydd, er gwaethaf y tai cyhoeddus o ansawdd yr oedd Mike Hedges yn siarad amdanynt yn gynharach, tai a adeiladwyd rhwng y rhyfeloedd yn Abertawe, mae rhai ohonynt yn dal i fod mewn mannau lle y ceir amddifadedd parhaus, a chredaf y gall pawb ohonom gyfeirio at ystadau tai eraill, ystadau cyngor—a adeiladwyd mewn mannau amrywiol rwyf fi wedi byw ac wedi gweithio ynddynt beth bynnag—a adeiladwyd yn y 1960au a'r 1970au, y credaf y byddent yn ysgytwad inni yn awr er gwaethaf y safonau ansawdd ac ati, ac er iddynt gael eu prynu gan gymdeithasau tai, yn syml iawn oherwydd y ffordd y cawsant eu cynllunio yn y lle cyntaf. Mae'r rhain yn bethau y mae angen inni eu hosgoi o hyn ymlaen.

Roedd fy rhieni'n blant yn—

Will you take an intervention?

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

Yes, very briefly, if that's okay.

Iawn, yn fyr iawn, os yw hynny'n iawn.

I'm really encouraged by this idea of building a consensus around housing policy, and you're talking about council housing. Some of the best council housing—the bigger, family properties—were all sold off under the right to buy. In order to reach this consensus, would you be prepared to ditch your ideological obsession with that policy?

Caf fy nghalonogi'n fawr gan y syniad hwn o greu consensws ynghylch polisi tai, ac rydych yn sôn am dai cyngor. Cafodd rhai o'r tai cyngor gorau—yr eiddo teuluol mwy o faint—eu gwerthu o dan yr hawl i brynu. Er mwyn cyrraedd y consensws hwn, a fyddech yn barod i droi cefn ar eich obsesiwn ideolegol gyda'r polisi hwnnw?

Do you know what, Leanne? I don't have ideological obsessions, but I do think that our councils should have the ability to use the money that they raise from Right to Buy to build new houses, or indeed invest them in older housing stock that needs bringing up.

Wyddoch chi beth, Leanne? Nid oes gennyf obsesiynau ideolegol, ond credaf y dylai ein cynghorau gael y gallu i ddefnyddio'r arian y maent yn ei godi o Hawl i Brynu i adeiladu tai newydd, neu'n wir ei fuddsoddi mewn stoc dai hŷn sydd angen ei datblygu.

That's not what happened, though, is it?

Ond nid dyna a ddigwyddodd, nage?

But I'm not interested in the past; I'm interested in the future. Can I just say, as well, incidentally, that Penyrenglyn is a really good example of where the community has taken control of housing use there? I mean, you know the estate that I'm talking about; Valleys Kids and their friends have made a huge difference to community housing there. So, that's the type of thing I would rather us discuss than the silly, nonsensical stuff that Leanne Wood is prepared to talk about. 

I just wanted to say: a bit of context to this is that my parents grew up as children in the second world war, so I grew up in a household where they'd experienced this big explosion of housing that Mike was talking about, but it was also an era when wastefulness was frowned upon and expensive purchases were planned for, partly because of the need to save up, and partly to avoid the situation where—people didn't have to panic buy something because they had no choice.

Now, Lee Waters will be familiar with the Brynmefys estate in Furnace, and that was my grandparents' home for most of their lives. Perhaps, actually, it's a cautionary tale as well against over-embracing the non-traditional construction methods, but, more importantly, I think it was a wasted opportunity to house people, because that estate is so broken now it virtually needs to be rebuilt. I think there are particular local reasons, to be fair, for that, but wastefulness is not a reason for the 27,000 empty homes. That reason can't be local in every single case.

So, I've encouraged Welsh Government over the years to consider our policy of extending Help to Buy to bring suitable empty properties back into use, because Help to Buy currently favours larger construction firms, although, of course, they do sub-contract. It's a variation that would offer more direct help for those small firms that characterise our economy, as they are the ones that are interested in maintenance and repair and renovation work. So while, of course, I think, like we all do, that the should be more building, instead of putting all our eggs in the new-build basket, how about a renewed focus on keeping existing, basically sound properties in circulation as homes in communities where cohesion is potentially threatened, and where property remains relatively inexpensive, and where connectivity, physical and digital, should be the driver of the sustainability of those communities?

Now, yes, we've had Welsh Government schemes. We've had Houses into Homes—£30 million promised since 2012 for short-term, interest-free loans to owners of empty properties to help them renovate. I only have the figures up to 2015, I'm sorry, but by that time just 360 loans had been approved and 40 per cent of the work completed. I think it's an expensive, poorly advertised system to deliver a highly supportable purpose, slightly surprisingly for this Government, aimed at private owners in the rental market.

Now, ethical private landlords are important providers of homes, and I commend the work of The Wallich and Crisis, who've been working with private landlords in tackling homelessness. Most private landlords are not careless of their tenants, or greedy, and as a property lawyer in the two housing booms that preceded the crash, I can say that not all buy-to-let was about that awful money bubble. There were ordinary people, constituents who inherited or bought a property to be their pension pot. I think Mike mentioned this. Of course, Gordon Brown had sold off the gold, investment rates were very low, about to get worse, so of course people were worried about their future security, and many of those are today's private landlords.

Just to finish, Llywydd, if you don't mind: this being wasteful, that's one thing; panic buying is another thing. I'd hazard that most LDPs reflect an element of this panic. After years of limited building, councils are now finding themselves pushed into these large candidate sites on the edges of established communities, with all the problems with services, sometimes with the advice of developers who'll have insider knowledge, but without that courage to demand meaningful section 106 or community levy payments to pay for associated infrastructure. That heaps up trouble for leaseholders and even some freeholders, as Hefin David has mentioned fairly recently, in locations that have poor links to anywhere.

I have plenty more to say, but I don't think I've got time, Llywydd. But thank you very much.

Ond nid oes gennyf ddiddordeb yn y gorffennol; yn y dyfodol y mae gennyf fi ddiddordeb. Gyda llaw, a gaf fi ddweud hefyd fod Penyrenglyn yn enghraifft dda iawn o gymuned yn cymryd rheolaeth ar ddefnydd tai yno? Hynny yw, rydych yn adnabod yr ystâd rwy'n sôn amdani; mae Plant y Cymoedd a'u cyfeillion wedi gwneud gwahaniaeth enfawr i dai cymunedol yno. Felly, dyna'r math o beth y byddai'n well gennyf inni ei drafod na'r pethau gwirion a disynnwyr y mae Leanne Wood yn barod i siarad amdanynt.

Roeddwn am ddweud mai rhywfaint o gyd-destun i hyn yw fod fy rhieni wedi'u magu fel plant yn ystod yr ail ryfel byd, felly cefais fy magu ar aelwyd lle'r oeddent wedi profi'r ffrwydrad mawr o dai yr oedd Mike yn sôn amdano, ond roedd hefyd yn gyfnod pan oeddent yn gwgu ar wastraff a byddent yn cynllunio ar gyfer prynu pethau drud, yn rhannol oherwydd yr angen i gynilo, ac yn rhannol er mwyn osgoi sefyllfa lle—nid oedd raid i bobl brynu rhywbeth mewn panig oherwydd nid oedd ganddynt ddewis.

Nawr, bydd Lee Waters yn gyfarwydd ag ystâd Brynmefys yn Ffwrnais, a dyna lle'r oedd cartref fy nhad-cu a fy mam-gu am y rhan fwyaf o'u bywydau. Efallai, mewn gwirionedd, ei bod hi'n stori rybuddiol hefyd yn erbyn gorddefnyddio dulliau adeiladu nad ydynt yn draddodiadol, ond yn bwysicach, credaf ei fod yn gyfle a gollwyd ar gyfer cartrefu pobl, gan fod yr ystâd honno mor faluriedig bellach, mae bron â bod angen ei hailadeiladu. Credaf fod rhesymau lleol penodol am hynny, a bod yn deg, ond nid afradlonedd yw'r rheswm am y 27,000 o gartrefi gwag. Ni all y rheswm fod yn lleol ym mhob achos unigol.

Felly, rwyf wedi annog Llywodraeth Cymru dros y blynyddoedd i ystyried ein polisi o ymestyn Cymorth i Brynu i ailddechrau defnyddio eiddo gwag addas oherwydd ar hyn o bryd mae Cymorth i Brynu yn ffafrio cwmnïau adeiladu mwy o faint, er eu bod yn is-gontractio, wrth gwrs. Mae'n amrywiad a fyddai'n cynnig mwy o gymorth uniongyrchol i'r busnesau bach sy'n nodweddu ein heconomi, gan mai hwy sydd â diddordeb mewn gwaith cynnal a chadw ac atgyweirio ac adnewyddu. Felly, er fy mod yn credu, wrth gwrs, fel pawb ohonom, y dylid adeiladu mwy, yn hytrach na rhoi ein hwyau i gyd yn y fasged adeiladu o'r newydd, beth am ffocws newydd ar gadw eiddo presennol sy'n sylfaenol gadarn mewn cylchrediad fel cartrefi mewn cymunedau lle y mae cydlyniant o dan fygythiad o bosibl, a lle y mae eiddo'n parhau i fod yn gymharol rhad, a lle y dylai cysylltedd, ffisegol a digidol, sbarduno cynaliadwyedd y cymunedau hynny?

Nawr, do, rydym wedi cael cynlluniau Llywodraeth Cymru. Rydym wedi cael Troi Tai'n Gartrefi—addawyd £30 miliwn ers 2012 ar gyfer benthyciadau tymor byr, di-log i berchnogion eiddo gwag i'w helpu i adnewyddu. Nid oes gennyf ffigurau ar ôl 2015, mae'n ddrwg gennyf, ond erbyn hynny, dim ond 360 o fenthyciadau a gymeradwywyd a dim ond 40 y cant o'r gwaith a gwblhawyd. Credaf ei bod hi'n system ddrud, nad yw wedi'i hysbysebu'n dda, ar gyfer cyflawni diben y gellir yn hawdd ei gefnogi, sy'n syndod braidd gan y Llywodraeth hon, ac wedi'i hanelu at berchnogion preifat yn y farchnad rentu.

Nawr, mae landlordiaid preifat egwyddorol yn ddarparwyr cartrefi pwysig, a chymeradwyaf waith y Wallich a Crisis, sydd wedi bod yn gweithio gyda landlordiaid preifat i fynd i'r afael â digartrefedd. Nid yw'r rhan fwyaf o landlordiaid preifat yn ddiofal o'u tenantiaid, neu'n farus, ac fel cyfreithiwr eiddo yn y ddau gyfnod o ffyniant ym maes tai a ragflaenodd y cwymp ariannol, gallaf ddweud nad oedd pob achos o brynu i osod yn ymwneud â'r swigen arian ofnadwy honno. Roedd yna bobl gyffredin, etholwyr a oedd wedi etifeddu neu wedi prynu eiddo i fod yn bot pensiwn iddynt. Credaf fod Mike wedi crybwyll hyn. Wrth gwrs, roedd Gordon Brown wedi gwerthu'r aur i gyd, roedd cyfraddau buddsoddi yn isel iawn, ac ar fin gwaethygu, felly wrth gwrs fod pobl yn poeni am eu diogelwch ariannol yn y dyfodol, a dyna yw llawer o landlordiaid preifat heddiw.

I orffen, Lywydd, os nad oes ots gennych: un peth yw fod hyn yn wastraffus; peth arall yw prynu mewn panig. Buaswn yn tybio bod y rhan fwyaf o gynlluniau datblygu lleol yn adlewyrchu elfen o'r panig hwn. Ar ôl blynyddoedd o adeiladu cyfyngedig, mae cynghorau bellach yn cael eu gwthio i'r safleoedd mawr posibl hyn ar gyrion cymunedau sefydledig, gyda'r holl broblemau gyda gwasanaethau, weithiau gyda chyngor datblygwyr sydd â gwybodaeth bersonol, ond heb y dewrder i fynnu taliadau adran 106 neu ardoll gymunedol ystyrlon i dalu am seilwaith cysylltiedig. Mae hynny'n creu llond trol o drwbwl i lesddeiliaid a hyd yn oed i rai rhydd-ddeiliaid, fel y crybwyllodd Hefin David yn weddol ddiweddar, mewn lleoliadau heb gysylltiadau da ag unman.

Mae gennyf lawer mwy i'w ddweud, ond nid wyf yn meddwl bod gennyf amser, Lywydd. Ond diolch yn fawr iawn.

17:40

It's incredibly difficult to have a reasonable conversation like this out there, especially, as I've found, during an election campaign. Lindsey Whittle stood in a green field holding a bucket of mud, and he said, 'I'm not going to put this bucket of mud down, because as soon as I do, the Labour Party will build a house on it'. This was said in a Facebook video during an election campaign, which was shared with, would you believe, 20,000 people. I was counting it as the numbers were going up. So, when we talk about a political consensus, I think it's incredibly difficult to arrive at that, and I'd say to Mark Reckless, yes, we have arrived at this agreement that we need a strategic development plan, that connecting into Cardiff isn't happening with Caerphilly's LDP, and it's wrong to build on Caerphilly mountain, but that was something I came to through discussion with Carl Sargeant, during the election campaign. Believe me, UKIP and Plaid Cymru weren't pushing that argument in any meaningful way. All they were saying was, 'Labour want to build on your green land', and that was the simple end of the matter.

Mae'n anhygoel o anodd cael sgwrs resymol fel hyn allan yno, yn enwedig, fel y gwelais, yn ystod ymgyrch etholiadol. Safodd Lindsey Whittle mewn cae gwyrdd yn dal bwcedaid o fwd, a dywedodd, 'Nid wyf am roi'r bwced hwn o fwd i lawr, oherwydd cyn gynted ag y gwnaf, bydd y Blaid Lafur yn adeiladu tŷ arno'. Cafodd hyn ei ddweud mewn fideo ar Facebook yn ystod ymgyrch etholiadol, a'i rannu gyda 20,000 o bobl, credwch neu beidio. Roeddwn yn ei gyfrif wrth i'r niferoedd godi. Felly, pan fyddwn yn sôn am gonsensws gwleidyddol, credaf ei bod hi'n anhygoel o anodd ei gyrraedd, a buaswn yn dweud wrth Mark Reckless, ydym, rydym wedi cyrraedd y cytundeb hwn fod angen inni gael cynllun datblygu strategol, nad yw cysylltu i mewn i Gaerdydd yn digwydd gyda chynllun datblygu lleol Caerffili, ac mae'n anghywir i adeiladu ar fynydd Caerffili, ond rhywbeth y deuthum ato drwy drafodaeth â Carl Sargeant yn ystod ymgyrch yr etholiad oedd hynny. Credwch fi, nid oedd UKIP a Phlaid Cymru'n gwthio'r ddadl honno mewn unrhyw ffordd ystyrlon. Y cyfan yr oeddent yn ei ddweud oedd, 'Mae Llafur eisiau adeiladu ar eich tir gwyrdd', a dyna oedd diwedd y mater yn syml iawn.

May I congratulate the Member? But I just wanted to ask him: with higher house prices in our region, is that a way of getting some more of the development into north of the Caerphilly borough and, likewise, in Blaenau Gwent and Merthyr Tydfil councils where, sometimes, we've only seen 50 houses started in a year?

A gaf fi longyfarch yr Aelod? Ond roeddwn am ofyn iddo: gyda phrisiau tai uwch yn ein rhanbarth, a yw honno'n ffordd o gael mwy o'r datblygu i ogledd bwrdeistref Caerffili ac yn yr un modd, yng nghynghorau Blaenau Gwent a Merthyr Tudful lle na welwn, weithiau, fwy na 50 o dai yn cael eu dechrau mewn blwyddyn?

17:45

If you can get small-firm house builders building then it's a possibility, but the problem we've got is that, in Wales, there is this oligopoly, this cartel of five big house builders who build 75 per cent of the homes and as long as they—

Os gallwch gael cwmni adeiladu tai sy'n fach i adeiladu, yna mae'n bosibl, ond y broblem sydd gennym yw fod gennym oligopoli yma yng Nghymru, cartél o bum cwmni adeiladu tai mawr sy'n adeiladu 75 y cant o'r cartrefi a chyn belled â'u bod—

Whether it's council houses or not, or whether it's social housing or not, you have got the dominance of this market of these large house builders who, as Mike Hedges has said, have no incentive to meet demand in full and who build in areas of very high demand and don't build houses that are affordable to those people who already live in those areas or live in areas just outside, to the north, which are lower income areas. So, as long as you've got this cartel dominating the market, then you're not going to be able to resolve the social housing problem either.

It was actually in 2013 that Persimmon said that they will no longer be building homes north of Pontypridd. They've said that publicly. Professor John Punter, professor of urban design at Cardiff University, said that there's no reason why we should be singling out particular areas of Wales not to build in. It comes down to the points that Mike Hedges has made: it's about the fact that once you start settling demand, then there's no reason to make a profit, there's less ability to make a profit, but also, need will never be met—need will never be met. So, I can see why it would be sensible to support Plaid Cymru's amendments, because the fact that we need to focus on social housing in areas that are not met by the demand curve, that are not meeting housing need, that is a must and therefore I can perfectly see that social housing needs to be a focus of the Welsh Government, and I urge the Welsh Government therefore to also support that.

It's not just an issue of housing, as has already been said, it's also an issue of the economy and growing the economy in those northern Valleys areas that I represent, but also in rural areas of Wales as well. The housing document that the Welsh Conservatives produced is interesting but the section on land supply doesn't talk about the cost of remediation. It isn't a costed document. The private sector cannot afford to meet the cost of remediation in many cases. The Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee are just about to start an inquiry into SMEs and house building, and I'm pretty sure that remediation of land will be a huge issue and it is a fact that local authorities have not got that funding either. I'm not a particularly partisan person, but austerity has certainly played a part in that lack of remediation of land, and the Conservatives must face up to that and take responsibility for it.

One of the other issues that I've raised has been the need for a strategic development plan. The First Minister mentioned—I think it was at his first First Minister's questions—the fact that the Cardiff capital region are now working on a strategic development plan and he's looking to see that operationalised. So, I say to the First Minister, 'Please, press that with the Cardiff capital region', and to the housing Minister, 'Press that with the capital region'; we need to see progress on that, and we need to see progress on that quickly. 

But the fact is, the debate we've had today is, in many ways, sensible, grown up, and slightly partisan too, as any debate that Leanne Wood is involved in will be, but it's not the kind of debate we would have out there in public. It isn't the kind of debate that we have during election times. Let's be sensible about this. If we're going to achieve a consensus, then we've got to stop using the kind of language that we use during the frenetic period of election campaigns.

Boed yn dai cyngor ai peidio, neu'n dai cymdeithasol ai peidio, mae gennych oruchafiaeth y cwmnïau adeiladu tai mawr hyn ar y farchnad, cwmnïau, fel y dywedodd Mike Hedges, sydd heb unrhyw gymhelliant i ateb y galw'n llawn ac sy'n adeiladu mewn ardaloedd lle y mae'r galw'n uchel iawn ac nid ydynt yn adeiladu tai sy'n fforddiadwy i bobl sy'n byw yn yr ardaloedd hynny eisoes neu'n byw mewn ardaloedd ychydig y tu allan, i'r gogledd, sy'n ardaloedd incwm is. Felly, cyn belled â bod gennych gartél yn dominyddu'r farchnad, ni fyddwch yn gallu datrys y broblem tai cymdeithasol chwaith.

Yn 2013 y dywedodd Persimmon na fyddant yn adeiladu cartrefi i'r gogledd o Bontypridd mwyach. Maent wedi dweud hynny'n gyhoeddus. Dywedodd yr Athro John Punter, athro mewn dylunio trefol ym Mhrifysgol Caerdydd, nad oes unrhyw reswm pam y dylem fod yn neilltuo ardaloedd penodol yng Nghymru ar gyfer peidio ag adeiladu ynddynt. Gwnaeth Mike Hedges y pwyntiau eisoes: mae a wnelo â'r ffaith, pan fyddwch yn dechrau ateb y galw, nid oes unrhyw reswm i wneud elw, mae llai o allu i wneud elw, ond hefyd, ni fydd yr angen byth yn cael ei ddiwallu—ni fydd yr angen byth yn cael ei ddiwallu. Felly, gallaf weld pam y byddai'n synhwyrol i gefnogi gwelliannau Plaid Cymru, oherwydd mae'n rhaid inni ganolbwyntio ar dai cymdeithasol mewn ardaloedd na chânt eu diwallu gan y cromlin galw, ardaloedd nad ydynt yn cyrraedd yr angen am dai, ac felly gallaf weld yn berffaith fod angen i dai cymdeithasol fod yn ffocws i Lywodraeth Cymru, ac felly rwy'n annog Llywodraeth Cymru i gefnogi hynny hefyd.

Nid mater o dai yn unig yw hyn, fel y dywedwyd eisoes, mae hefyd yn fater o economi a thyfu'r economi yn ardaloedd y Cymoedd gogleddol rwy'n eu cynrychioli, ond hefyd mewn ardaloedd gwledig o Gymru yn ogystal. Mae'r ddogfen dai a lluniodd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn ddiddorol, ond nid yw'r adran ar gyflenwad tir yn sôn am y gost o adfer. Nid yw'n ddogfen wedi'i chostio. Ni all y sector preifat fforddio talu'r gost o adfer mewn llawer o achosion. Mae Pwyllgor yr Economi, Seilwaith a Sgiliau ar fin dechrau ymchwiliad i fusnesau bach a chanolig ac adeiladu tai, ac rwy'n eithaf sicr y bydd adfer tir yn fater enfawr ac mae'n ffaith nad yw'r cyllid hwnnw gan awdurdodau lleol chwaith. Nid wyf yn berson arbennig o ddallbleidiol, ond mae cyni yn sicr wedi chwarae rhan yn y diffyg adfer tir, a rhaid i'r Ceidwadwyr wynebu hynny ac ysgwyddo cyfrifoldeb am hynny.

Un o'r materion eraill a godais yw'r angen am gynllun datblygu strategol. Soniodd y Prif Weinidog—credaf mai yn ystod ei gwestiynau cyntaf i'r Prif Weinidog y gwnaeth hynny—fod prifddinas-ranbarth Caerdydd bellach yn gweithio ar gynllun datblygu strategol ac mae'n awyddus i'w weld yn cael ei weithredu. Felly, dywedaf wrth y Prif Weinidog, 'Pwyswch am hynny gyda phrifddinas-ranbarth Caerdydd', ac wrth y Gweinidog tai, 'Pwyswch am hynny gyda'r prifddinas-ranbarth'; mae angen inni weld cynnydd ar hynny, ac mae angen inni weld cynnydd ar hynny'n gyflym.

Ond y ffaith amdani yw fod y ddadl a gawsom heddiw, mewn llawer o ffyrdd, yn synhwyrol, yn aeddfed, ac ychydig yn ddallbleidiol hefyd, fel y bydd unrhyw ddadl y bydd Leanne Wood yn rhan ohoni, ond nid dyma'r math o ddadl y byddem yn ei chael allan gyda'r cyhoedd. Nid dyma'r math o ddadl a gawn ar adeg etholiad. Gadewch inni fod yn synhwyrol ynglŷn â hyn. Os ydym am sicrhau consensws, rhaid i ni roi'r gorau i ddefnyddio'r math o iaith a ddefnyddiwn yn ystod cyfnodau gorffwyll ymgyrchoedd etholiadol.

Y Gweinidog Tai a Llywodraeth Leol, Julie James.

The Minister for Housing and Local Government, Julie James.

Diolch, Llywydd. I very much welcome this debate and the opportunity to speak for the first time in my new portfolio because housing a key priority for the Welsh Government and because the First Minister has seen fit to draw together a number of related issues in my portfolio with the aim of being able to simplify and accelerate the housing supply.

And as David Melding acknowledged, we absolutely do need to prioritise and work together as much as possible. To paraphrase the First Minister in his first FMQs yesterday, we have the same need, want and desire for the outcome; the issue is, we don't always see the same path to that outcome. So, concentrating on the fact that we all want the same outcome, which is for all of the citizens of Wales to have a secure and decent place to live, with the easiest possible route to that secure and decent place to live, I think we'd all agree with that. The issue really is that we don't always agree on the methodology to get there, but we do accept a lot of what is set out in the Conservative document because we're already working on some parts of it. The areas of disagreement are there also, but I think we can build something that we can broadly agree on. We do recognise that delivering the number of homes required in both the market and affordable sectors is an ongoing challenge across the whole of the UK. Wales faces, as David Melding and many other acknowledged, the same issues as the rest of the country. We are taking significant steps to deliver the homes we need. 

We will be supporting the Plaid amendments because I do absolutely recognise Leanne Wood's submissions around social housing and the need for sustainable communities. I find nothing to disagree with in what she said about those needs and we will be looking very hard to see how we can accelerate the ability of both our registered social landlords and our councils to develop social housing at a much faster pace and at scale, if at all possible, utilising borrowing powers. It was great to hear people on the Conservative benches acknowledging the need to borrow for sustainable investment in housing stock. David Melding, I know, wholly agrees with that. We will be looking to see what we can do to support our local authorities to borrow substantially in order to invest in social housing of that sort. We've been working on a good partnership following the very successful initial talks that my predecessor in post had with the RSLs and local authorities. We'll be looking to develop that at pace in order to get the sort of scale we know is necessary.

And then in terms of—.

Diolch, Lywydd. Rwy'n croesawu'r ddadl hon a'r cyfle i siarad am y tro cyntaf yn fy mhortffolio newydd am fod tai yn flaenoriaeth allweddol i Lywodraeth Cymru ac am fod y Prif Weinidog wedi gweld gwerth dwyn ynghyd nifer o faterion cysylltiedig yn fy mhortffolio gyda'r nod o allu symleiddio a chyflymu'r broses o gyflenwi tai.

Ac fel y cydnabu David Melding, mae gwir angen inni flaenoriaethu a gweithio gyda'n gilydd cymaint â phosibl. I aralleirio'r Prif Weinidog yn ystod ei sesiwn gwestiynau gyntaf ddoe, mae pawb ohonom angen, eisiau ac yn deisyfu'r un canlyniad; y broblem yw nad ydym bob amser yn gweld yr un llwybr tuag at y canlyniad hwnnw. Felly, gan ganolbwyntio ar y ffaith bod pob un ohonom eisiau'r un canlyniad, sef i holl ddinasyddion Cymru gael lle diogel a gweddus i fyw ynddo, gyda'r llwybr hawsaf posibl at y lle diogel a gweddus hwnnw i fyw ynddo, rwy'n credu y byddem oll yn cytuno â hynny. Y broblem mewn gwirionedd yw nad ydym bob amser yn cytuno ar y fethodoleg ar gyfer cyrraedd yno, ond rydym yn derbyn llawer o'r hyn a nodwyd yn nogfen y Ceidwadwyr oherwydd rydym eisoes yn gweithio ar rai rhannau ohoni. Mae yno feysydd yr anghytunir yn eu cylch hefyd, ond credaf y gallwn adeiladu rhywbeth y gallwn gytuno arno'n fras. Rydym yn cydnabod bod darparu nifer y cartrefi sydd eu hangen yn y farchnad a'r sectorau fforddiadwy yn her barhaus ar draws y DU gyfan. Fel y cydnabu David Melding a sawl un arall, mae Cymru'n wynebu'r un problemau â gweddill y wlad. Rydym yn rhoi camau sylweddol ar waith i ddarparu'r cartrefi sydd eu hangen arnom.

Byddwn yn cefnogi gwelliannau Plaid Cymru oherwydd rwy'n cydnabod yn llwyr sylwadau Leanne Wood ynglŷn â thai cymdeithasol a'r angen am gymunedau cynaliadwy. Ni allaf ddod o hyd i unrhyw beth i anghytuno ag ef yn yr hyn a ddywedodd am yr anghenion hynny a byddwn yn edrych yn galed iawn i weld sut y gallwn gyflymu gallu ein landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig a'n cynghorau i ddatblygu tai cymdeithasol yn gyflymach o lawer ac ar raddfa fawr, os yn bosibl, gan ddefnyddio pwerau benthyca. Roedd yn wych clywed pobl ar feinciau'r Ceidwadwyr yn cydnabod yr angen i fenthyca ar gyfer buddsoddi'n gynaliadwy yn y stoc dai. Gwn fod David Melding yn cytuno'n llwyr â hynny. Byddwn yn edrych i weld beth y gallwn ei wneud i gynorthwyo ein hawdurdodau lleol i fenthyca'n sylweddol er mwyn buddsoddi mewn tai cymdeithasol o'r fath. Buom yn gweithio ar bartneriaeth dda yn dilyn y trafodaethau cychwynnol llwyddiannus iawn a gafodd fy rhagflaenydd yn y swydd gyda landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig ac awdurdodau lleol. Byddwn yn anelu i ddatblygu hynny'n gyflym er mwyn sicrhau'r raddfa y gwyddom y bydd ei hangen.

Ac yna o ran—.

17:50

I thank the Minister for giving way. I couldn't as a Labour Co-operative Member let the debate go without actually putting a shout out for co-operative housing solutions and also community land trust models. If you look back to the 1980s, Bernie Sanders—I think he describes himself as a democratic socialist; I think in America they called him a communist—actually brought forward one of the most innovative, now one of the largest—over 500 homes—inner city areas that is devised on a community land trust model. We still have them at the edge of our thoughts and I wonder if we can develop those along the M4, in inner cities, like they're doing in Bristol and London and so on, as part of this solution. So, please give support to them as well. 

Diolch i'r Gweinidog am ildio. Fel Aelod Llafur a Chydweithredol, ni allwn adael i'r ddadl fynd heb godi llais dros atebion tai cydweithredol a modelau ymddiriedolaethau tir cymunedol. Os edrychwch yn ôl i'r 1980au, cyflwynodd Bernie Sanders—credaf ei fod yn disgrifio'i hun fel sosialydd democrataidd; yn America, rwy'n credu eu bod wedi'i alw'n gomiwnydd—un o'r ardaloedd canol dinas mwyaf arloesol, ac un o'r rhai mwyaf o ran maint bellach—dros 500 o gartrefi—a ddyfeisiwyd ar fodel ymddiriedolaethau tir cymunedol. Maent yno ar ymyl ein meddyliau o hyd ac rwy'n meddwl tybed a allwn ddatblygu'r rheini ar hyd yr M4, yng nghanol dinasoedd, fel y maent yn ei wneud ym Mryste a Llundain ac ati, fel rhan o'r ateb hwn. Felly, os gwelwch yn dda cefnogwch y rhain hefyd.

Yes, I will be coming on to talk about innovative forms of tenure and different models of developing the housing supply. A large number of them, probably all of the things that Huw Irranca-Davies has just mentioned, are in that list.

It is important to reiterate though that our fundamental policy on this side remains the delivery of additional social housing. So, whilst I don't take away from anything that was said about the delivery of private sector housing and the market and so on, our priority is to deliver additional social housing and the protection of our existing stock. Unlike the UK Government, we've never lost sight of the need to support the most vulnerable and the most in need, and that's why homes for social rent make up the biggest proportion of our 20,000 target. It's also why we've taken action to end the right to buy, which has seen so many homes in all parts of Wales lost from the affordable housing sector. I won't get into this again, but I have to say that I disagree with much of what was said on the Conservative benches about this.

The vast majority of my family also lived on the biggest council house estate in the north of Swansea, Gendros council house estate, which many of you will be familiar with. You've only got to walk along there and you can see the right to buys. They're not occupied by the people who bought them, they're occupied by private sector landlords who haven't upgraded those houses. They are not clad the way the local authority ones are, the windows and doors are not standard, the local authority ones are, the gardens are in poor condition, and it's really not good. I don't think that that has particularly helped—.

Ie, fe fyddaf yn dod at fathau arloesol o ddeiliadaeth a modelau gwahanol o ddatblygu'r cyflenwad tai. Mae nifer fawr ohonynt, pob un o'r pethau y mae Huw Irranca-Davies newydd eu crybwyll mae'n debyg, ar y rhestr honno.

Er hynny, mae'n bwysig ailadrodd mai ein polisi sylfaenol ar yr ochr hon o hyd yw darparu tai cymdeithasol ychwanegol. Felly, er nad wyf yn dibrisio unrhyw beth a ddywedwyd ynghylch cyflenwi tai yn y sector preifat a'r farchnad ac ati, ein blaenoriaeth yw darparu tai cymdeithasol ychwanegol a diogelu ein stoc bresennol. Yn wahanol i Lywodraeth y DU, nid ydym erioed wedi colli golwg ar yr angen i gefnogi'r bobl fwyaf agored i niwed a'r bobl fwyaf anghenus, a dyna pam mai cartrefi rhent cymdeithasol yw'r gyfran fwyaf o'n targed o 20,000. Hefyd, dyna pam y rhoesom gamau ar waith i roi diwedd ar yr hawl i brynu, sydd wedi arwain at golli cymaint o gartrefi ym mhob rhan o Gymru o'r sector tai fforddiadwy. Nid wyf am oedi gyda hyn eto, ond rhaid imi ddweud fy mod yn anghytuno â llawer o'r hyn a ddywedwyd ar y meinciau Ceidwadol ynglŷn â hyn.

Roedd y rhan fwyaf o fy nheulu innau hefyd yn byw ar yr ystâd tai cyngor fwyaf yng ngogledd Abertawe, sef ystâd tai cyngor Gendros, y bydd llawer ohonoch yn gyfarwydd â hi. Nid oes ond angen i chi gerdded drwyddi ac fe welwch y tai hawl i brynu. Nid y bobl a'u prynodd sy'n eu meddiannu, landlordiaid sector preifat sy'n eu meddiannu ac nid ydynt wedi uwchraddio'r tai hynny. Ni osodwyd cladin arnynt yn yr un ffordd ag y gwnaed hynny ar dai'r awdurdod lleol, nid yw'r ffenestri a'r drysau'n rhai safonol fel rhai'r awdurdod lleol, mae'r gerddi mewn cyflwr gwael, ac nid yw'n dda o gwbl. Nid wyf yn credu bod hynny wedi helpu'n arbennig—.

I take your point there, and it's a really valid point, but would you concede that, with a sale, stipulations can be put on so in future that doesn't happen? That can easily be done. 

Rwy'n derbyn eich pwynt, ac mae'n bwynt dilys iawn, ond a fyddech yn cyfaddef, gyda gwerthiant, y gellir gosod amodau fel nad yw hynny'n digwydd yn y dyfodol? Gellid gwneud hynny'n hawdd.

I think it would have been a better scheme if councils had always been allowed to reinvest the money that they got from the sale back into additional stock. Of course, that was prevented for the vast majority of the time that right to buy was in place. It had to be put against paying off debt and so on in an extremely non-beneficial way. I think that was a mistake. But, I actually fundamentally disagree with the principle in the first place, because actually I don't think there's anything wrong with having good social housing, having a tenure where you rent. Most of my family never wanted to own their own house, what they wanted was a decent place with security of tenure, a place to bring up their families, a place where their families could also live. So, if you want to buy, that's great, but I don't think we should build social housing with a view to selling it off into the private sector and that's why we've ended the right to buy.

Credaf y byddai wedi bod yn gynllun gwell pe bai cynghorau bob amser wedi cael caniatâd i ailfuddsoddi'r arian a gawsant o'r gwerthiant mewn stoc ychwanegol. Wrth gwrs, rhwystrwyd hynny am y rhan helaeth o'r amser y bu'r hawl i brynu ar waith. Roedd yn rhaid ei osod yn erbyn talu dyled ac ati mewn ffordd hynod o ddi-fudd. Credaf fod hynny'n gamgymeriad. Ond mewn gwirionedd, rwy'n anghytuno'n llwyr â'r egwyddor yn y lle cyntaf, oherwydd nid wyf yn credu bod unrhyw beth o'i le mewn cael tai cymdeithasol da, cael deiliadaeth lle rydych yn rhentu. Nid oedd y rhan fwyaf o fy nheulu erioed eisiau bod yn berchen ar eu tŷ eu hunain, yr hyn yr oeddent ei eisiau oedd lle gweddus gyda deiliadaeth ddiogel, lle i fagu eu teuluoedd, lle y gallai eu teuluoedd fyw hefyd. Felly, os ydych am brynu, gwych, ond ni chredaf y dylem adeiladu tai cymdeithasol gyda golwg ar eu gwerthu i'r sector preifat, a dyna pam y rhoesom ddiwedd ar yr hawl i brynu.

We've had the debate about the right to buy and the Assembly's made its decision. What I think is crucial is to have mixed tenure. There's a lot of attention being given to this—that that's what's at the heart of sustainable communities. Just as we would favour, under conditions, the sale of council houses, we would favour, and this has been done a lot in the past, councils buying what's in the private stock at the moment and then letting it to social rent—this mixed approach is what we need to do, and be flexible.

Rydym wedi cael y ddadl am yr hawl i brynu a gwnaeth y Cynulliad ei benderfyniad. Yr hyn sy'n hollbwysig yn fy marn i yw cael deiliadaeth gymysg. Mae llawer o sylw wedi ei roi i hyn—mai dyna sydd wrth wraidd cymunedau cynaliadwy. Yn union fel y byddem o blaid gwerthu tai cyngor dan amodau, byddem o blaid gweld cynghorau'n prynu'r hyn sydd yn y stoc breifat ar hyn o bryd a'i osod wedyn ar rent cymdeithasol, ac mae hyn wedi'i wneud gryn dipyn yn y gorffennol—y dull cymysg hwn sydd ei angen arnom, a bod yn hyblyg.

17:55

That bit I do agree with. I'm not sure we'd quite have the same path to it, but, absolutely, a sustainable mixed tenure or mixed social make-up society is what we need. One of the things I bitterly regret about what's happened in the council estates where my family mostly live is that it's no longer a mixed economy at all—they have become ghetto estates, really, with particular people with particular types of problems pushed into the estates. That is the thing that's really caused much of the social difficulty, but that's a debate for another day—we're supposed to be talking about housing supply, mostly, here.

So, as I've said already, the new housing and local government portfolio brings together key policy areas that contribute the most to building more homes. I'm determined to use all of the relevant policy levers to deliver the homes we need. For example, we recognise the crucial role played by the planning system, and we'll continue to explore what we might do to strengthen planning so that we can deliver more homes. 

The publication of the revised 'Planning Policy Wales' before Christmas by, again, my predecessor, Lesley Griffiths, clearly sets out a more robust approach to the delivery of new homes by placing viability considerations upfront in the planning process. It seeks to give encouragement to SME builders and people who wish to build their own homes as well, as we completely acknowledge the point made by a number of people around the Chamber about the need to free up as much land as possible and to enable self-build in very large parts of Wales.

It's worth mentioning in regard to that that as part of the Valleys taskforce I was privileged to have some very good presentations from officials and others about what we can do to develop off-the-shelf plans for self-build, if you like, to help everybody in our society to see that they too could develop their own home in that way. I'm very pleased to be able to take that forward as well.

We completely recognise the role of Government investing in extra housing, as was said across the Chamber. Our record £1.7 billion investment in housing during this Assembly term is making a real difference. In 2017-18, over half of the new affordable homes built in Wales were delivered with a capital grant from the Welsh Government, so that's just one indication of the scale of the commitment. As I've said, I do agree with much of what's in the Conservative Party's strategy document in that regard.

As I said, we agree with the self-home proposals. We also agree that modular housing and off-site manufacture have an important and growing role to play. Housing organisations will be able to learn from the exciting projects beginning to emerge through the innovative housing programme, and I'm looking forward to visiting very shortly the development of a modular housing facility in north Wales to see what we can do to encourage all of our councils and our RSLs to take up the modular house building programme, which will accelerate the pace of build once you've actually got the thing running in the first place.

We're also supporting nearly 8,000 people to purchase a home through Help to Buy—Wales. To influence the behaviour of builders, banning the use of the scheme for new leasehold houses has all but eradicated the practice in Wales. The measures were the first of their kind in the UK. They helped secure agreement from the five biggest house builders in Wales that they would no longer sell houses on a leasehold basis. I think that's very much to be welcomed, and I want to explore whether that was sufficient or whether we do need to take any additional steps.

We're on track to deliver our target of bringing 5,000 empty homes back into use during this term of government. There are many empty properties, though, that are not coming forward, as Mike Hedges and a number of other people pointed out. We will be looking to see what further action might be taken to help address this, including making sure that local authorities use all of the levers at their disposal to encourage the bringing back into use of empty homes, including some of the council tax provisions that we've put in place and other tax levers—the vacant land tax and all the rest of it. I think we're looking at a vacant property tax as well as something that we might develop in future to try to encourage the bringing back into use of these houses.

Forgive me, I can't remember which Member said it, but I will be looking to see what we can do about the Houses into Homes initiative—I think it might have been Suzy Davies. I agree that it's not been well understood across the piece, and I think we could do a lot more with it, particularly in areas where there have been high concentrations of houses in multiple occupation, which would very much benefit from being brought back into family-home use.

Rwy'n cytuno â'r rhan honno. Nid wyf yn siŵr y byddai ein llwybrau tuag ato yr un fath yn union, ond yn hollol, cymdeithas gynaliadwy o ddeiliadaethau cymysg neu gyfansoddiad cymdeithasol cymysg sydd ei angen arnom. Un o'r pethau rwy'n gresynu’n fawr atynt ynglŷn â'r hyn sydd wedi digwydd yn yr ystadau tai cyngor lle y mae fy nheulu'n byw gan mwyaf yw nad yw'n economi gymysg o gwbl bellach—maent wedi troi'n ystadau geto, mewn gwirionedd, gyda phobl benodol sydd â mathau penodol o broblemau yn cael eu gwthio i'r ystadau. Dyna sydd wedi achosi llawer o anawsterau cymdeithasol, ond dadl ar gyfer diwrnod arall yw honno—y cyflenwad tai sydd dan sylw yma'n bennaf.

Felly, fel y dywedais eisoes, mae'r portffolio tai a llywodraeth leol newydd yn dwyn ynghyd y meysydd polisi allweddol sy'n cyfrannu fwyaf at adeiladu mwy o gartrefi. Rwy'n benderfynol o ddefnyddio'r holl ddulliau polisi perthnasol i ddarparu'r cartrefi sydd eu hangen arnom. Er enghraifft, rydym yn cydnabod y rôl hollbwysig a chwaraeir gan y system gynllunio, a byddwn yn parhau i archwilio beth y gallem ei wneud i gryfhau cynllunio fel y gallwn ddarparu mwy o gartrefi.

Mae cyhoeddiad y 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru' diwygiedig cyn y Nadolig, unwaith eto gan fy rhagflaenydd, Lesley Griffiths, yn nodi'n glir ymagwedd fwy cadarn tuag at ddarparu cartrefi newydd drwy osod ystyriaethau hyfywedd yn flaenllaw yn y broses gynllunio. Y nod yw annog busnesau adeiladu bach a chanolig a phobl sy'n dymuno adeiladu eu cartrefi eu hunain yn ogystal, gan ein bod yn cydnabod yn llwyr y pwynt a wnaed gan nifer o bobl o gwmpas y Siambr am yr angen i ryddhau cymaint o dir â phosibl a hwyluso hunanadeiladu mewn rhannau mawr iawn o Gymru.

Mae'n werth crybwyll o ran hynny fy mod wedi cael y fraint fel rhan o dasglu'r Cymoedd o fod wedi cael cyflwyniadau da iawn gan swyddogion ac eraill ynglŷn â'r hyn y gallwn ei wneud i ddatblygu cynlluniau parod ar gyfer hunanadeiladu, os mynnwch, i helpu pawb yn ein cymdeithas i weld y gallent hwythau hefyd ddatblygu eu cartref eu hunain yn y ffordd honno. Rwy'n falch iawn o allu symud ymlaen ar hynny hefyd.

Rydym yn llwyr gydnabod rôl y Llywodraeth i fuddsoddi mewn tai ychwanegol, fel y dywedwyd ar draws y Siambr. Mae ein buddsoddiad mwyaf erioed o £1.7 biliwn mewn tai yn ystod tymor y Cynulliad hwn yn gwneud gwahaniaeth go iawn. Yn 2017-18, cafodd dros hanner y cartrefi fforddiadwy newydd a adeiladwyd yng Nghymru eu darparu drwy grant cyfalaf gan Lywodraeth Cymru, felly dyna un arwydd yn unig o faint yr ymrwymiad. Fel y dywedais, rwy'n cytuno â llawer o'r hyn sydd yn nogfen strategaeth y Blaid Geidwadol yn hynny o beth.

Fel y dywedais, rydym yn cytuno â'r cynigion ynghylch hunanadeiladu. Rydym hefyd yn cytuno bod gan dai modiwlar a gweithgynhyrchu oddi ar y safle ran bwysig a chynyddol i'w chwarae. Bydd sefydliadau tai yn gallu dysgu o'r prosiectau cyffrous sy'n dechrau dod i'r amlwg drwy'r rhaglen tai arloesol, ac edrychaf ymlaen at ymweld â datblygiad cyfleuster tai modiwlar yng ngogledd Cymru cyn bo hir i weld beth y gallwn ei wneud i annog pob un o'n cynghorau a'n landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig i fanteisio ar y rhaglen adeiladu tai modiwlar, a fydd yn cyflymu'r broses adeiladu pan fyddwch wedi dechrau arni yn y lle cyntaf.

Rydym hefyd yn cynorthwyo bron i 8,000 o bobl i brynu cartref drwy Cymorth i Brynu—Cymru. Er mwyn dylanwadu ar ymddygiad adeiladwyr, mae gwahardd y defnydd o'r cynllun ar gyfer tai lesddaliadol newydd wedi dileu'r arfer fwy neu lai yn llwyr yng Nghymru. Y mesurau hyn oedd y cyntaf o'u bath yn y DU. Maent wedi helpu i sicrhau cytundeb y pum cwmni adeiladu tai mwyaf yng Nghymru na fyddent mwyach yn gwerthu eu tai ar sail lesddaliadol. Credaf fod hynny i'w groesawu'n fawr, ac rwyf am edrych i weld a oedd hynny'n ddigonol neu a oes angen inni roi camau ychwanegol ar waith.

Rydym ar y trywydd iawn i gyrraedd ein targed i ailddechrau defnyddio 5,000 o gartrefi gwag yn ystod tymor y Llywodraeth hon. Ceir llawer o eiddo gwag, fodd bynnag, na wneir unrhyw beth yn ei gylch, fel y nododd Mike Hedges a nifer o bobl eraill. Byddwn yn edrych i weld pa gamau pellach y gellid eu rhoi ar waith i helpu i fynd i'r afael â hyn, gan gynnwys gwneud yn siŵr fod awdurdodau lleol yn defnyddio'r holl ysgogiadau sydd ar gael iddynt i annog camau i ailddechrau defnyddio tai gwag, gan gynnwys rhai o'r darpariaethau treth gyngor a roddwyd ar waith gennym ac ysgogiadau treth eraill—y dreth ar dir gwag ac yn y blaen. Credaf ein bod yn edrych ar dreth eiddo gwag hefyd fel rhywbeth y gallem ei ddatblygu yn y dyfodol i geisio annog camau i ailddechrau defnyddio'r tai hyn.

Maddeuwch imi, ni allaf gofio pa Aelod a'i dywedodd, ond byddaf yn edrych i weld beth y gallwn ei wneud am y fenter Troi Tai'n Gartrefi—rwy'n credu efallai mai Suzy Davies a wnaeth. Rwy'n cytuno nad yw wedi'i deall yn dda gan bawb, a chredaf y gallem wneud llawer mwy â'r fenter honno, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd lle y cafwyd crynodiadau mawr o dai amlfeddiannaeth a fyddai'n elwa'n fawr o gael eu troi'n ôl yn gartrefi at ddefnydd teuluoedd.

Minister, you do need to bring your—

Weinidog, mae angen i chi ddirwyn—

I am bringing my remarks to a close—thank you, Llywydd. 

This is a debate that's been so very welcome. You can see from the complexity of the remarks around the Chamber how much we can bring to bear in this space. So, I want to conclude—I've got a lot more that I could say in terms of what we're doing at the moment, but I want to bring the debate to a conclusion in this way. I very much welcome any contribution from any Member around the Chamber who thinks that they have something that would help us to increase the housing supply. It is the aim of everyone here—it is our shared aim—and I'm very happy to have offline meetings with anyone or groups of anyone, or party groups, or anything else to see how we can take forward some of the suggestions that we all agree with, and how we can minimise our differences and maximise our agreement in order to get the housing supply that Wales needs. Diolch yn fawr. 

Rwy'n dod â fy sylwadau i ben—diolch ichi, Lywydd.

Mae hon yn ddadl i'w chroesawu'n fawr iawn. Gallwch weld o gymhlethdod y sylwadau o amgylch y Siambr cymaint y gallwn ei gynnig yn y lle hwn. Felly, rwyf am gloi—mae gennyf lawer mwy y gallwn ei ddweud o ran yr hyn rydym yn ei wneud ar hyn o bryd, ond rwyf am gloi'r ddadl yn y modd hwn. Rwy'n croesawu'n fawr unrhyw gyfraniad gan unrhyw Aelod o gwmpas y Siambr sydd o'r farn fod ganddynt rywbeth a fyddai'n ein helpu i gynyddu'r cyflenwad tai. Dyna yw nod pawb yma—ein nod cyffredin—ac rwy'n hapus iawn i gael cyfarfodydd ychwanegol ag unrhyw un neu grwpiau o bobl, neu grwpiau pleidiol, neu unrhyw beth arall i weld sut y gallwn fwrw ymlaen â rhai o'r awgrymiadau y mae pawb ohonom yn cytuno â hwy, a sut y gallwn leihau'r gwahaniaethau a manteisio i'r eithaf ar y tir cyffredin rhyngom er mwyn cael y cyflenwad o dai sydd ei angen ar Gymru. Diolch yn fawr.

18:00

Galwaf ar Mark Isherwood i ymateb i'r ddadl. Mark Isherwood. 

I call on Mark Isherwood to reply to the debate. Mark Isherwood. 

Diolch, Llywydd.

David Melding started this debate by quoting from a 2004 speech warning of a housing crisis, yet here we are tackling a broken housing market with consequent social injustice. It reminds me of being party to those debates in 2004, backing a campaign that united the charitable and commercial sectors in housing across Wales, warning that there would be a housing crisis if urgent action wasn't taken. As I said at the time, housing is a key vehicle for community and social regeneration. It's a regret that now, all these years later, people are now acknowledging that after so much opportunity was missed.

He referred to the devastating effects on young families, older people and homelessness, the need for a new political consensus to solve the crisis, and referred to the precedent set after world war two, to the UK Government target of 300,000 homes annually, to the demand for housing or, particularly, the housing demand increase, the launch of the Welsh Conservative housing strategy, 'Housing a Nation', last month, for which David deserves huge credit—thank you, David—and the recognition that we need capital investment and borrowing if we're going to take this forward, reflecting both the report that David has steered but also the Shelter report referring to England.

Leanne Wood highlighted a report showing the need for up to 12,000 homes per annum, with 37 per cent in the social sector. That actually reflects numerous reports over several years, all indicating similar levels of need. But, in fact, as you indicated, we've been building fewer than half that level.

Nick Ramsay referred to a shortage of adaptable and lifetime homes, and also the key role played by non-profit housing associations in that as in much else, how house prices are six times the average earnings, about the wasted capacity in the estimated 27,000 empty homes in Wales, and the need for sustainable housing to be within sustainable communities.

Mike Hedges referred to the barriers to first-time buyers and to renting—an increase in single-person and pensioner households. He said housing associations were not making up the loss in council homes although, of course, by 1997 they had been, and mentioned the need for more council housing, now possible with the UK Government lifting the borrowing cap and with them allowing exit from the housing revenue account meaning that proceeds from tenants can now also be used to build new council houses. But, as the First Minister said to me yesterday in response to my questions, that must be in partnership with housing associations to ensure that we get the best bang for the buck and also the maximum community regeneration impact. This isn't just bricks and mortar; this is about lives and communities.

Mark Reckless talked about the impact of house price increases and the need to encourage construction and growth.

Gareth Bennett said that the Welsh Government target would not meet demand and that we need a mixture of housing that's truly affordable.

Suzy Davies talked about the need to look at the type and location of housing, the need to enable right to buy, and now, thanks to the UK Government, be able to invest the proceeds in building new social houses, the use of the Help to Buy scheme to bring empty properties back into use as well as to build new houses, and the work of the homelessness charity Wallich with private landlords to tackle homelessness.

Hefin David talked about the need to incentivise development in areas not meeting demand, which is, of course, key.

And the Minister, Julie James—and I also welcome her to her new role and speaking to this for the first time in her new portfolio—mentioned the need to prioritise and work together, and the need to accept much, as she does, of the Welsh Conservative document. The role of the co-operative and community land trust model was referred to. In fact, if you look back, actually, to previous Assemblies, that has been taken forward, and you may want to look at what resulted. And the need to encourage small and medium enterprises, small builders, self-build, modular housing, and the priority being social housing delivery, which she said that Welsh Government had never lost sight of. Sadly, over the first decade of this century, the supply of new affordable housing by social housing providers in Wales fell by 73 per cent over the previous decade, which unfortunately indicates that pervious Welsh Governments did lose sight. So, let us, as I said many years ago in this Chamber in the context of the warnings about the housing crisis now with us, give housing a home in Wales once again, recognising, as I said earlier, this isn't just bricks and mortar; this is about better lives, healthier lives and rebuilding sustainable communities.     

Diolch, Lywydd.

Dechreuodd David Melding y ddadl hon drwy ddyfynnu o araith yn 2004 yn rhybuddio am argyfwng tai, ac eto dyma ni yn mynd i'r afael â marchnad dai doredig gydag anghyfiawnder cymdeithasol o ganlyniad i hynny. Mae'n fy atgoffa o fod yn rhan o'r dadleuon hynny yn 2004, yn cefnogi ymgyrch a unai'r sector elusennol a'r sector masnachol ym maes tai ar draws Cymru, ac a rybuddiai ynghylch argyfwng tai os na châi camau eu rhoi ar waith ar frys. Fel y dywedais ar y pryd, mae tai yn gyfrwng allweddol ar gyfer adfywio cymdeithasau a chymunedau. Mae'n ofid fod pobl, yr holl flynyddoedd hyn yn ddiweddarach, bellach yn cydnabod hynny ar ôl colli cymaint o gyfle.

Cyfeiriodd at yr effaith ddinistriol ar deuluoedd ifanc, pobl hŷn a digartrefedd, yr angen am gonsensws gwleidyddol newydd i ddatrys yr argyfwng, a chyfeiriodd at y cynsail a osodwyd ar ôl yr ail ryfel byd, at darged Llywodraeth y DU o 300,000 o gartrefi bob blwyddyn, at y galw am dai neu, yn benodol, at y cynnydd yn y galw am dai, lansiad strategaeth dai y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, 'Cartrefu Cenedl', y mis diwethaf, ac mae David yn haeddu clod aruthrol amdani—diolch ichi, David—a'r gydnabyddiaeth fod angen buddsoddi a benthyca cyfalaf os ydym yn mynd i fwrw ymlaen â hyn, gan adlewyrchu'r adroddiad a lywiwyd gan David ond hefyd yr adroddiad gan Shelter wrth gyfeirio at Loegr.

Cyfeiriodd Leanne Wood at adroddiad yn dangos yr angen am hyd at 12,000 o gartrefi y flwyddyn, gyda 37 y cant ohonynt yn y sector cymdeithasol. Mae hynny mewn gwirionedd yn adlewyrchu nifer o adroddiadau dros nifer o flynyddoedd, a phob un yn nodi lefelau tebyg o angen. Ond mewn gwirionedd, fel y nodwyd gennych, rydym wedi bod yn adeiladu llai na hanner y lefel honno.

Cyfeiriodd Nick Ramsay at brinder cartrefi hyblyg a gydol oes, a hefyd at y rôl allweddol y mae cymdeithasau tai di-elw yn eu chwarae yn hynny fel mewn cymaint o bethau eraill, at y modd y mae prisiau tai chwe gwaith y cyflog cyfartalog, at y capasiti a wastreffir yn y 27,000 amcangyfrifedig o gartrefi gwag yng Nghymru, a'r angen i dai cynaliadwy fod o fewn cymunedau cynaliadwy.

Cyfeiriodd Mike Hedges at y rhwystrau i brynwyr tro cyntaf ac i rentu—y cynnydd mewn aelwydydd un person a phensiynwyr. Dywedodd nad oedd cymdeithasau tai yn adennill y nifer o dai cyngor a gollwyd, er i hynny ddigwydd erbyn 1997 wrth gwrs, a soniodd am yr angen am ragor o dai cyngor, rhywbeth sy'n bosibl bellach wrth i Lywodraeth y DU godi'r cap ar fenthyca a rhoi caniatâd i adael y cyfrif refeniw tai sy'n golygu y gellir defnyddio elw gan denantiaid hefyd bellach i adeiladu tai cyngor newydd. Ond fel y dywedodd y Prif Weinidog wrthyf ddoe mewn ymateb i fy nghwestiynau, rhaid i hynny fod mewn partneriaeth â chymdeithasau tai er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn cael y gwerth gorau am arian a hefyd yr effaith orau o ran adfywio cymunedol. Nid brics a morter yn unig yw hyn; mae'n ymwneud â bywydau a chymunedau.

Soniodd Mark Reckless am effaith cynnydd ym mhrisiau tai, a'r angen i annog gwaith adeiladu a thwf.

Dywedodd Gareth Bennett na fyddai targed Llywodraeth Cymru yn ateb y galw a bod angen cymysgedd o dai sy'n wirioneddol fforddiadwy.

Soniodd Suzy Davies am yr angen i edrych ar y math o dai a lleoliad tai, yr angen i alluogi hawl i brynu, a bellach, diolch i Lywodraeth y DU, i allu buddsoddi'r elw ar gyfer adeiladu tai cymdeithasol newydd, y defnydd o'r cynllun Cymorth i Brynu ar gyfer ailddechrau defnyddio eiddo gwag yn ogystal ag ar gyfer adeiladu tai newydd, a gwaith yr elusen ddigartrefedd Wallich gyda landlordiaid preifat i fynd i'r afael â digartrefedd.

Soniodd Hefin David am yr angen i gymell datblygu mewn ardaloedd nad ydynt yn ateb y galw, ac mae hynny'n allweddol wrth gwrs.

A soniodd y Gweinidog, Julie James—rwyf innau hefyd yn ei chroesawu i'w rôl newydd ac i siarad am hyn am y tro cyntaf yn ei phortffolio newydd—am yr angen i flaenoriaethu a gweithio gyda'n gilydd, a'r angen i dderbyn llawer, fel y mae hi'n ei wneud, o ddogfen y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig. Cyfeiriwyd at rôl y model ymddiriedolaethau tir cydweithredol a chymunedol. Yn wir, os edrychwch yn ôl, mewn gwirionedd, ar Gynulliadau blaenorol, mae hynny wedi'i ddatblygu, ac efallai yr hoffech edrych ar beth oedd canlyniadau hynny. A'r angen i annog mentrau bach a chanolig, adeiladwyr bach, hunanadeiladu, tai modiwlar, a'r flaenoriaeth yw darparu tai cymdeithasol, a dywedodd nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru erioed wedi colli golwg ar hynny. Yn anffodus, yn negawd cyntaf y ganrif hon, gostyngodd y cyflenwad o dai fforddiadwy newydd gan ddarparwyr tai cymdeithasol yng Nghymru 73 y cant dros y degawd blaenorol, sy'n dangos, yn anffodus, fod Llywodraethau Cymru blaenorol wedi colli golwg ar hynny. Felly, fel y dywedais lawer blwyddyn yn ôl yn y Siambr hon yng nghyd-destun y rhybuddion ynglŷn â'r argyfwng tai sydd bellach gyda ni, gadewch inni roi cartref i dai yng Nghymru unwaith eto, gan gydnabod, fel y dywedais yn gynharach, nad yw'n fater o frics a morter yn unig; mae hyn yn ymwneud â gwell bywydau, bywydau iachach ac ailadeiladu cymunedau cynaliadwy.

18:05

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Therefore, we defer voting until voting time. 

Diolch. Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Felly, gohiriwn y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Voting deferred until voting time.

I am going to move to voting time. Unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, I will proceed. No. Right. Okay.

Rwy'n mynd i symud ymlaen i'r cyfnod pleidleisio. Oni bai bod tri Aelod yn dymuno i'r gloch gael ei chanu, fe symudaf ymlaen. Nac oes. Iawn. O'r gorau.

8. Cyfnod Pleidleisio
8. Voting Time

So, we call for a vote on the Welsh Conservative debate on housing. I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Darren Millar. If the proposal is not agreed, we will vote on the amendments tabled to the motion. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the motion 16, one abstention, 37 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed and we move to vote on the amendments. 

Felly, galwn am bleidlais ar ddadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ar dai. Galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar. Os na dderbynnir y cynnig, byddwn yn pleidleisio ar y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i'r cynnig. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig 16, roedd 1 yn ymatal, a 37 yn erbyn. Felly, gwrthodwyd y cynnig a symudwn ymlaen i bleidleisio ar y gwelliannau.

NDM6909 - Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 16, Yn erbyn: 37, Ymatal: 1

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig

NDM6909 - Welsh Conservatives debate, motion without amendment: For: 16, Against: 37, Abstain: 1

Motion has been rejected

I call for a vote on the amendments. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be deselected. I call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. Open the vote. Close the vote. For amendment 1 30, three abstentions, 21 against. Therefore, amendment 1 is agreed. 

Galwaf am bleidlais ar y gwelliannau. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, bydd gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 yn cael eu dad-ddethol. Galwaf am bleidlais ar welliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Rebecca Evans. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. Roedd 30 o blaid gwelliant 1, 3 yn ymatal, a 21 yn erbyn. Felly, derbyniwyd gwelliant 1.

NDM6909 Gwelliant 1: O blaid: 30, Yn erbyn: 21, Ymatal: 3

Derbyniwyd y gwelliant

NDM6909 - Amendment 1: For: 30, Against: 21, Abstain: 3

Amendment has been agreed

Cafodd gwelliannau 2, 3 a 4 eu dad-ddethol.

Amendments 2, 3 and 4 deselected.

We now move to vote on the motion as amended. 

Symudwn ymlaen yn awr i bleidleisio ar y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd.

Cynnig NDM6909 fel y’i diwygiwyd:

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

1. Yn cydnabod:

a) y buddsoddiad mwyaf erioed mewn tai gan Lywodraeth Cymru.

b) bod angen asesiad newydd o’r angen a’r galw am dai, yn seiliedig ar y data diweddaraf a’r amcanestyniadau aelwydydd diweddaraf.

2. Yn croesawu:

a) ymrwymiad Llywodraeth Cymru i ddarparu 20,000 o dai fforddiadwy yn ystod tymor y Llywodraeth hon, sydd ar y trywydd iawn ac a fydd yn cael ei gyflawni mewn partneriaeth â’r sector tai.

b) cyflwyno treth trafodiadau tir yng Nghymru a’r trothwy cychwynnol o £180,000 ar gyfer y prif gyfraddau preswyl, sy’n golygu nad yw’r rhan fwyaf o brynwyr tai, a mwyafrif y prynwyr tro cyntaf, yn talu treth o gwbl pan fyddant yn prynu cartref.

3. Yn cydnabod ymrwymiad parhaus Llywodraeth Cymru i dai cymdeithasol, sydd wedi parhau’n flaenoriaeth sylfaenol, gan gefnogi’r bobl fwyaf agored i niwed a diogelu ein stoc bresennol o dai cymdeithasol, yn wahanol i Loegr.

4. Yn nodi’r hyblygrwydd sydd ar gael i gymdeithasau tai er mwyn iddynt allu datblygu ystod o ddeiliadaethau i fodloni’r galw am dai fforddiadwy.

Motion NDM6909 as amended:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1.    Recognises:

a) the record investment being made in housing by the Welsh Government.

b) that a new assessment of housing need and demand is necessary, based on up-to-date data and the latest household projections.

2.    Welcomes:

a) the Welsh Government commitment to deliver 20,000 affordable homes during this term of government, which is on track and will be delivered in partnership with the housing sector.

b)  the introduction of land transaction tax in Wales and the £180,000 starting threshold for the main residential rate, which means that the majority of homebuyers, and the vast majority of first-time buyers, pay no tax when buying a home.

3.  Acknowledges the Welsh Government’s continuing commitment to social housing, which has remained a fundamental priority, supporting the most vulnerable and protecting our existing social housing stock, unlike in England.

4. Notes the flexibility available to housing associations so they can develop a range of tenures to meet the demand for affordable housing.

Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amended motion 30, three abstentions, 21 against. Therefore, the motion as amended is agreed. 

Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd 30, roedd 3 yn ymatal, a 21 yn erbyn. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd.

NDM6909 - Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd: O blaid: 30, Yn erbyn: 21, Ymatal: 3

Derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd

NDM6909 - Welsh Conservatives debate, motion as amended: For: 30, Against: 21, Abstain: 3

Motion as amended agreed

9. Dadl Fer: Gwres gwyn technoleg?
9. Short Debate: The white heat of technology?

We now move to the short debate. If Members are going, can they please do so quickly and quietly? Could Members not have conversations in the Chamber? If you're staying, please sit down. If you're not, please go quickly.

We now move to the short debate and I call on Mohammad Asghar to speak on the topic he has chosen. 

Symudwn ymlaen yn awr at y ddadl fer. Os oes Aelodau'n gadael, a allant wneud hynny'n gyflym ac yn dawel os gwelwch yn dda? A gaf fi ofyn i'r Aelodau beidio â chael sgyrsiau yn y Siambr? Os ydych chi'n aros, eisteddwch. Os nad ydych, ewch allan yn gyflym os gwelwch yn dda.

Symudwn ymlaen yn awr at y ddadl fer a galwaf ar Mohammad Asghar i siarad am y pwnc a ddewiswyd ganddo.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. When I came to the United Kingdom in 1970, I had done my BA in political science and sociology and was given the opportunity to study computers, or IT as it is called today, in London. IBM 360 model 30—it was much bigger than the Presiding Officer's whole table. In those days, computers were the size of almost a master bedroom, and it never ceases to amaze me how much technology has advanced since.

Recently, I read an article where the SpaceX founder and Paypal creator, Elon Musk, said something that I agree with very strongly. He said, it does not matter,

'If you're co-founder or CEO, you have to do all kinds of tasks you might not want to do...If you don't do your chores, the company won't succeed...No task is too menial.'

So, every skill that you learn in life will come in handy at some point. We may not see it at the time, but we will in time.

According to Sundar Pichai, the chief executive of Google—his words are that technology,

'is evolving beyond phones, and people are using it in context across many scenarios, be it in their television, be it in their car, be it something they wear on their wrist or even something much more immersive.' 

Diolch ichi, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Pan ddeuthum i'r Deyrnas Unedig yn 1970, roeddwn wedi gwneud fy BA mewn gwyddor gwleidyddiaeth a chymdeithaseg a rhoddwyd cyfle i mi astudio cyfrifiaduron, neu TG fel y'i gelwir heddiw, yn Llundain. IBM 360 model 30—roedd yn fwy o lawer na bwrdd cyfan y Llywydd. Yn y dyddiau hynny, roedd cyfrifiaduron bron â bod mor fawr ag ystafell wely ddwbl, ac mae'n fy rhyfeddu'n barhaol cymaint y mae technoleg wedi datblygu ers hynny.

Yn ddiweddar, darllenais erthygl lle y dywedodd sylfaenydd SpaceX a chrëwr Paypal, Elon Musk, rywbeth rwy'n cytuno'n gryf iawn ag ef. Dywedodd nad yw o bwys,

os ydych yn gyd-sylfaenydd neu'n brif swyddog gweithredol, rhaid i chi wneud pob math o dasgau nad ydych efallai am eu gwneud... Os nad ydych yn gwneud y mân orchwylion, ni fydd y cwmni'n llwyddo... Nid oes yr un dasg sy'n rhy isel.

Felly, bydd pob sgìl y byddwch yn ei dysgu mewn bywyd yn handi rywbryd. Ac efallai na fyddwn yn ei weld ar y pryd, ond fe wnawn ymhen amser.

Yn ôl Sundar Pichai, prif weithredwr Google—mae technoleg

yn datblygu y tu hwnt i ffonau, ac mae pobl yn ei defnyddio mewn cyd-destun ar draws nifer o senarios, boed yn eu set deledu, boed yn eu car, boed yn rhywbeth y maent yn ei wisgo ar eu harddwrn neu hyd yn oed rhywbeth llawer mwy tri dimensiwn.

Undoubtedly, we live in a world where most of us cannot even function without our phones, tablets, laptops or PCs. I will admit I am not the most IT-savvy person on the planet, but I do know that the world is progressing at such a rapid speed and pace that we all here in Wales must keep up with it. Are we really doing it? You may remember that one of the arguments put forward in favour of devolution in the late 1990s was that Welsh interests were being neglected. Supporters of devolution claimed that this was reflected in the relative failure of the Welsh economy. They claimed Wales had too much reliance on the public sector for jobs, higher unemployment and a less skilled workforce than in the rest of the United Kingdom. These economic problems, we were told, could only be solved by tailor-made solutions created here in Wales. Today, after 20 years of devolution, it saddens me to say that Wales still has the weakest economy in the United Kingdom. Workers in Wales have the lowest weekly wages and unemployment remains above the UK average. And Wales has a serious skills gap.

Fifty-five years ago, the then Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, reflected on the pace of technological change and its implications for industry. He warned that, if the country was to prosper, a new Britain would need to be forged in the white heat of a scientific revolution. That is true of Wales today. We need to kick-start the economy by addressing the barriers to growth. The growing skills gap, particularly in the field of digital skills, is hindering the ability of companies to find the workers they need to develop.

As the director general of the British Chambers of Commerce said:

'Labour and skills shortages are set to be the biggest potential drag anchor on business in 2018, since ultimately it is people that make businesses work.' 

The Barclays digital development index 2017, which analysed 88,000 UK job adverts and 6,000 adults, claims that Welsh employees score among the lowest of all UK regions for their digital skills. This is important because Welsh employers are willing to pay a premium for workers with word processing, data analysis and social media capabilities. People’s level of digital prowess is fast becoming a key determinant of their earning power. According to Barclays bank, having digital skills can add more than £11,500 a year to your potential earnings in Wales. The internet has massively levelled the business playing field, particularly in terms of a company’s ability to reach their audience or market. It has also dramatically lowered the bar for entry to business so that, for many new businesses, their website is both their point of engagement and their point of sale.

I very much welcome our Prime Minister’s announcement of a digital initiative aimed at solving the digital skills shortage. The £40 million Institute of Coding is a partnership deal with leading tech firms, universities and industry bodies in an effort to bolster future digital skills in this country. The consortium is made up of more than 60 universities, businesses and industry experts. Employers will have a tangible input to the curriculum, working hand in hand with universities to develop specialist skills in areas where they are needed most. I am delighted that the Welsh Government has agreed to work in co-operation with Westminster by confirming that Swansea and Cardiff universities are to receive funding to expand coding in schools, colleges and communities.

Education is pivotal in ensuring we have the skills to get by in our digital lives, but the fact is that they are changing so fast that educators are struggling to keep up. Skills are changing faster than formal education providers can keep up. The industry is developing at such a rate that by the time the curriculum is crafted and approved by the various bodies and students finally graduate, you can be talking of almost a decade from start to finish.

We need a coherent and long-term commitment from the Welsh Government for 'digital Wales', from skills to infrastructure. However, Estyn say pupils' progress in digital skills has not kept pace with technology. They claim opportunities to develop ICT skills across subjects are limited in many secondary schools and in a third of primary schools. In just under two thirds of primary schools, there are important shortcomings in standards of ICT. I must admit, although most people are confident in using programmes such as those for word processing and creating presentations, their skills are often limited to a narrow range of applications. One of many concerns is that Welsh Government is failing to promote the benefits that apprenticeships can bring to students at an early stage.

Careers information in schools about apprenticeships is vital if we are to increase the supply of trained workers our economy desperately needs. There are currently issues with the quality and availability of careers advice, including the lack of trained careers advisors and the lack of knowledge of apprenticeships and vocational training by school staff. Schools also exhibit a tendency to encourage pupils towards study of A-levels rather than apprenticeships.

Further education and work-based learning organisations need greater access to schools to broaden the range of advice young people receive about their future careers. I am confident that this will go some way to tackling the worrying gender imbalance and under-representation of disabled people that we currently see in apprenticeships in Wales.

Deputy Presiding Officer, Wales needs to face the challenges and grab the opportunities presented by the modern global economy. At Google, whenever they plan on making an ambitious leap into a new product or service, they call it a 'moonshot'. You have all probably heard of that saying—'If you aim for the moon, you’ll at least land amongst the stars.' I think we need to encourage people of all ages and backgrounds, from all across Wales, to have the courage to aim for the moon and take their very own 'moonshots'. 

Deputy Presiding Officer, digital skills are our future, whether you work in health, education, transport—any department. Only within the last 20 years—just 20 years—digital development in all walks of life has changed the civilisation of the global economy, global industry, global—. Every walk of life is digital, digital, digital. So, we must get certain areas, whether they're strategical, informational, instrumental, or digital skills—we need other skills, and we need to train our children to make sure they're not lagging behind because the nation—. We have no shortage of money for education here, so if we have to develop our economy and the best future for our children and our generations, we must strongly emphasise and give them full support to get their digital skills fully covered in our curriculum. Thank you very much.

Yn sicr, rydym yn byw mewn byd lle na all y rhan fwyaf ohonom weithredu hyd yn oed heb ein ffonau, ein cyfrifiaduron llechen, ein gliniaduron neu ein cyfrifiaduron. Rwy'n cyfaddef nad wyf y person mwyaf gwybodus ar y blaned ym maes TG, ond gwn fod y byd yn datblygu ar gymaint o gyflymder fel bod yn rhaid i bawb ohonom yng Nghymru ddal i fyny ag ef. A ydym yn gwneud hynny mewn gwirionedd? Efallai y cofiwch mai un o'r dadleuon a gyflwynwyd o blaid datganoli ar ddiwedd y 1990au oedd bod buddiannau Cymru'n cael eu hesgeuluso. Honnai cefnogwyr datganoli fod hyn wedi'i adlewyrchu ym methiant cymharol economi Cymru. Honnent fod Cymru'n rhy ddibynnol ar y sector cyhoeddus am swyddi, fod diweithdra'n uwch a'r gweithlu'n llai medrus nag yng ngweddill y Deyrnas Unedig. Dywedwyd wrthym mai atebion wedi'u teilwra yma yng Nghymru yn unig a allai ddatrys y problemau economaidd hyn. Heddiw, ar ôl 20 mlynedd o ddatganoli, mae'n dristwch imi orfod dweud mai Cymru sydd â'r economi wannaf yn y Deyrnas Unedig o hyd. Cyflogau wythnosol gweithwyr yng Nghymru yw'r rhai isaf, ac mae lefelau diweithdra yn dal i fod yn uwch na chyfartaledd y DU. A cheir bwlch sgiliau difrifol yng Nghymru.

Hanner cant a phump o flynyddoedd yn ôl, myfyriodd y Prif Weinidog, Harold Wilson, ar gyflymder newid technolegol a goblygiadau hynny i ddiwydiant. Os oedd y wlad i ffynnu, rhybuddiodd, byddai angen creu Prydain newydd yng ngwres gwyn chwyldro gwyddonol. Mae hynny'n wir am Gymru heddiw. Mae angen inni roi hwb i'r economi drwy fynd i'r afael â rhwystrau i dwf. Mae'r bwlch sgiliau cynyddol, yn enwedig ym maes sgiliau digidol, yn llesteirio gallu cwmnïau i ddod o hyd i'r gweithwyr sydd eu hangen arnynt i ddatblygu.

Fel y dywedodd cyfarwyddwr cyffredinol Siambrau Masnach Prydain:

Mae'n bosibl mai prinder sgiliau a llafur fydd y maen melin mwyaf i fusnesau yn 2018, gan mai pobl yn y pen draw sy'n gwneud i fusnesau weithio.   

Mae mynegai datblygu digidol Barclays 2017, a ddadansoddodd 88,000 o hysbysebion swyddi a 6,000 o oedolion yn y DU, yn honni bod gweithwyr Cymru yn sgorio ymhlith yr isaf o holl ranbarthau'r DU am eu sgiliau digidol. Mae hyn yn bwysig oherwydd mae cyflogwyr Cymru yn barod i dalu premiwm i weithwyr sydd â galluoedd prosesu geiriau, dadansoddi data a chyfryngau cymdeithasol. Mae lefel medr ddigidol pobl yn prysur ddod yn ffactor allweddol sy'n penderfynu eu grym ennill. Yn ôl banc Barclays, gall meddu ar sgiliau digidol ychwanegu mwy na £11,500 flwyddyn at eich enillion posibl yng Nghymru. Mae'r rhyngrwyd wedi gwneud y cae chwarae'n llawer mwy gwastad i fusnesau, yn enwedig o ran gallu cwmni i gyrraedd eu cynulleidfa neu eu marchnad. Mae hefyd wedi gostwng y bar ar gyfer mynediad at fusnes yn ddramatig fel bod eu gwefan, i lawer o fusnesau newydd, yn bwynt ymgysylltu ac yn fan gwerthu iddynt.

Rwy'n croesawu'n fawr y cyhoeddiad gan Brif Weinidog y DU ynghylch menter ddigidol gyda'r nod o ddatrys y prinder sgiliau digidol. Mae'r Sefydliad Codio gwerth £40 miliwn yn gytundeb partneriaeth gyda chwmnïau technoleg blaenllaw, prifysgolion a chyrff y diwydiant mewn ymgais i gryfhau sgiliau digidol yn y wlad hon yn y dyfodol. Lluniwyd y consortiwm o fwy na 60 o brifysgolion, busnesau ac arbenigwyr y diwydiant. Bydd mewnbwn pendant gan gyflogwyr i'r cwricwlwm, gan weithio law yn llaw â'r prifysgolion i ddatblygu sgiliau arbenigol yn yr ardaloedd lle y mae fwyaf o'u hangen. Rwy'n falch iawn fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cytuno i weithio mewn cydweithrediad â San Steffan drwy gadarnhau bod prifysgolion Abertawe a Chaerdydd yn mynd i gael cyllid i ehangu codio mewn ysgolion, colegau a chymunedau.

Mae addysg yn ganolog i sicrhau bod gennym sgiliau i ymdopi yn ein bywydau digidol, ond y ffaith amdani yw eu bod yn newid mor gyflym fel bod addysgwyr yn cael trafferth dal i fyny. Mae sgiliau'n newid yn gyflymach nag y gall darparwyr addysg ffurfiol ddal i fyny â hwy. Mae'r diwydiant yn newid mor gyflym, ac erbyn yr amser y caiff y cwricwlwm ei lunio a'i gymeradwyo gan gyrff amrywiol ac y bydd myfyrwyr yn graddio yn y pen draw, rydych yn sôn am ddegawd bron o'r dechrau i'r diwedd.

Mae angen ymrwymiad hirdymor a chydlynol gan Lywodraeth Cymru tuag at 'Gymru ddigidol', o sgiliau i seilwaith. Fodd bynnag, mae Estyn yn dweud nad yw cynnydd disgyblion mewn sgiliau digidol wedi dal i fyny â'r dechnoleg. Maent yn honni bod cyfleoedd i ddatblygu sgiliau TGCh ar draws y pynciau yn gyfyngedig mewn llawer o ysgolion uwchradd ac mewn traean o ysgolion cynradd. Mewn ychydig o dan ddwy ran o dair o ysgolion cynradd, ceir diffygion pwysig o ran safonau TGCh. Rhaid i mi gyfaddef, er bod y rhan fwyaf o bobl yn hyderus wrth ddefnyddio rhaglenni megis y rhai ar gyfer prosesu geiriau a chreu cyflwyniadau, mae eu sgiliau'n aml yn gyfyngedig i ystod gul o gymwysiadau. Un o'r nifer o bryderon yw fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn methu hyrwyddo'r manteision y gall prentisiaethau eu cynnig i fyfyrwyr ar gam cynnar.

Mae gwybodaeth gyrfaoedd mewn ysgolion am brentisiaethau yn hanfodol os ydym i gynyddu'r cyflenwad o weithwyr hyfforddedig sydd eu hangen yn daer ar ein heconomi. Ar hyn o bryd, ceir problemau gydag ansawdd ac argaeledd cyngor gyrfaoedd, gan gynnwys diffyg cynghorwyr gyrfaoedd hyfforddedig a diffyg gwybodaeth am brentisiaethau a hyfforddiant galwedigaethol ymhlith staff ysgolion. Mae ysgolion hefyd yn dangos tueddiad i annog disgyblion i astudio at Safon Uwch yn hytrach na phrentisiaethau.

Mae angen i sefydliadau addysg bellach a dysgu seiliedig ar waith gael mwy o fynediad at ysgolion i ehangu'r ystod o gyngor a gaiff pobl ifanc am eu gyrfaoedd yn y dyfodol. Rwy'n hyderus y bydd hyn yn mynd beth o'r ffordd tuag at fynd i'r afael â'r anghydbwysedd rhwng y rhywiau sy'n peri pryder a diffyg cynrychiolaeth o blith pobl anabl a welwn ar hyn o bryd mewn prentisiaethau yng Nghymru.

Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae angen i Gymru wynebu'r heriau a manteisio ar y cyfleoedd a gynigir gan yr economi fyd-eang fodern. Yn Google, pa bryd bynnag y byddant yn cynllunio i wneud naid uchelgeisiol tuag at gynnyrch neu wasanaeth newydd, maent yn ei alw'n 'moonshot'. Mae'n siŵr fod pawb ohonoch wedi clywed yr ymadrodd hwnnw—'Os anelwch am y lleuad, fe fyddwch chi o leiaf yn glanio ymysg y sêr.' Rwy'n credu bod angen inni annog pobl o bob oedran a chefndir, o bob cwr o Gymru, i fod yn ddigon dewr i anelu am y lleuad a rhoi cynnig ar eu 'moonshots' eu hunain.

Ddirprwy Lywydd, sgiliau digidol yw ein dyfodol, pa un a ydych yn gweithio ym maes iechyd, addysg, trafnidiaeth—unrhyw faes. O fewn yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf yn unig—dim ond 20 mlynedd—mae datblygiad digidol ym mhob agwedd ar fywyd wedi newid gwareiddiad yr economi fyd-eang, diwydiant byd-eang—. Digidol, digidol, digidol yw pob agwedd ar fywyd. Felly, rhaid inni gael meysydd penodol, pa un a ydynt yn sgiliau strategol, sgiliau sy'n darparu gwybodaeth, sgiliau offerynnol neu sgiliau digidol—rydym angen sgiliau eraill, ac mae angen inni hyfforddi ein plant i wneud yn siŵr nad ydynt ar ei hôl hi oherwydd bod y wlad—. Nid oes prinder arian ar gyfer addysg yma, felly os oes raid inni ddatblygu ein heconomi a'r dyfodol gorau i'n plant a chenedlaethau'r dyfodol, rhaid inni roi hwb cadarn a chefnogaeth lawn iddynt drwy sicrhau bod eu sgiliau digidol yn cael sylw llawn yn ein cwricwlwm. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

18:15

Thank you. Can I now call on the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport to reply to the debate—Lee Waters? 

Diolch. A gaf fi alw yn awr ar Ddirprwy Weinidog yr Economi a Thrafnidiaeth i ymateb i'r ddadl—Lee Waters?

Thank you very much. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. It only seems like a few months ago that I was standing up in this Chamber making a similar speech calling for the Government to take action on digital skills, and that's because it was only a few months ago that I was giving such a speech. 

I'd like to thank Mohammad Asghar for bringing forward this debate. It's important that we work across party on this agenda, and I was struck by his quoting of Harold Wilson from that famous speech in 1963. Harold Wilson went on to say that,

'the strength, the solvency, the influence of Britain, which some still think depends upon nostalgic illusions…these things are going to depend in the remainder of this century to a unique extent on the speed with which we come to terms with the world of change.'

This is as true now as it was then. I'm a strong advocate for making sure that Wales can come to terms with and adapt to the world of change that Harold Wilson talked about in the speech that Oscar quoted. Automation and artificial intelligence are going to bring big changes to the workplace and have been doing so underneath our noses. Any role involving repetitive tasks across all industries risk being automated. Our role is to see new technologies as a means to free-up people to do things that machines can't. As the new First Minister has made clear, we need to make sure we provide new jobs for the future and encourage companies to redeploy people whose tasks are taken over by AI so that their know-how and creativity can be harnessed to develop their businesses and support front-line services.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae'n ymddangos mai ychydig fisoedd yn ôl y safwn yn y Siambr hon yn gwneud araith debyg yn galw ar y Llywodraeth i weithredu ar sgiliau digidol, a hynny oherwydd mai ychydig fisoedd yn ôl yn unig y gwneuthum yr araith honno.

Hoffwn ddiolch i Mohammad Asghar am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon. Mae'n bwysig inni weithio ar draws y pleidiau ar yr agenda hon, ac fe'm trawyd gan ei ddyfyniad o araith enwog Harold Wilson yn 1963. Aeth Harold Wilson yn ei flaen i ddweud

nerth, diddyledrwydd, dylanwad Prydain, pethau y mae rhai'n dal i feddwl eu bod yn dibynnu ar rithiau hiraethus... mae'r pethau hyn yn mynd i ddibynnu dros weddill y ganrif hon i raddau nas gwelwyd o'r blaen ar ba mor gyflym y down i delerau â byd o newid.

Mae hyn mor wir yn awr ag yr oedd bryd hynny. Rwy'n credu'n gryf mewn gwneud yn siŵr y gall Cymru ddod i delerau â, ac addasu i'r byd o newid y soniai Harold Wilson amdano yn yr araith y dyfynnodd Oscar ohoni. Mae awtomatiaeth a deallusrwydd artiffisial yn mynd i ddod â newidiadau mawr i'r gweithle ac maent wedi bod yn gwneud hynny o dan ein trwynau. Mae perygl y caiff unrhyw swydd sy'n cynnwys tasgau ailadroddus ar draws pob diwydiant ei hawtomeiddio. Ein rôl yw gweld technolegau newydd fel modd o ryddhau pobl i wneud pethau na all peiriannau mo'u gwneud. Fel yr eglurodd y Prif Weinidog newydd, mae angen inni wneud yn siŵr ein bod yn darparu swyddi newydd ar gyfer y dyfodol ac yn annog cwmnïau i adleoli pobl y mae eu tasgau'n cael eu trosglwyddo i ddeallusrwydd artiffisial eu gwneud fel y gellir harneisio eu medr a'u creadigrwydd er mwyn datblygu eu busnesau a chynorthwyo gwasanaethau rheng flaen.

The future has still got to be about equipping our people, our places and our businesses to adapt to change in order to face the future with confidence. Members may be aware of the report I published just before Christmas, which set out a range of recommendations for transforming public services through the better use of digital. And one of the key conclusions of that report, developed with an expert panel, is the need to equip the public sector with the appropriate skills to seize the opportunity of digital technology.

Last year, the economy committee, chaired by Russell George, commissioned an inquiry into the impact of AI and automation and the Welsh Government accepted many of the recommendations of that report, of how Wales can adapt to the changes and opportunities of the fourth industrial revolution, and now we are working to implement them.

The general consensus of all these reports, as well as research from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the Bank of England and many others, is that technology is transforming and will continue to transform the way we work, live and do business. The pace of change will be dictated by forces beyond our control, but Government has an important role in equipping people with the skills needed and providing the enabling infrastructure to ready the public and private sectors for the changes we are facing. This skills shift isn't just about developing digital or ICT skills. The economy and employers will require a more complex set of skills to underpin it—advanced problem solving, interpersonal skills, creative thinking, team working. These will all be heavily used in the future of work, and it's these sorts of things that machines cannot do—only people can do. 

We do, of course, have to futureproof the workforce insofar as we can. The automation of repetitive and predictable tasks is not new; this has been happening since the industrial revolution. What is new is the range of tasks and sectors that will be affected and the speed by which they'll be affected. The main impact, traditionally, has been in manufacturing. In the future, and as we speak, that is spreading right across the economy. Bill Gates has said that we tend to overestimate the pace of change that we'll see in the next two years, but underestimate the pace of change we're likely to see within the next 10 years. I've expressed concerns and organised round-tables on the impact these changes will have in professions like law and accountancy—fields previously untouched by automation, but now facing that change with some ferocity.

At the same time, of course, it's important that we're able to understand that there will be new opportunities in fields such as precision agriculture and the application of new technology to food production. But as well as concentrating on high-risk job roles, we should also appreciate that certain occupations, particularly jobs in social sectors such as health and care, may not be as significantly impacted by automation, but they, too, will be affected. More and more jobs there will be assisted by machines. And even people in those jobs that we consider to be outside the technology sector, they too will need the skills to be able to work alongside the technology.

Now, it's fair to say that employer investment and engagement in training remains a challenge for Wales as it does in other parts of the UK. Government cannot be the sole financier of post-compulsory education and training, and you'll need to create a system that incentivises employers to invest alongside the support made available via Government. We need to commit to genuine lifelong learning; the path from work to education and back again should be easy for any person in Wales. We change jobs and careers—especially in this game—more often than we ever have done before, and being able to retrain to meet the needs of the new jobs is essential, and the coming pressures of automation reinforce and accelerate this need.

I want to close, Dirprwy Lywydd, by summarising some of the actions that the Welsh Government are taking to address these challenges. Our employability plan sets out a range of measures to support individuals to upskill and to adapt their skills to the changing needs of the labour market, and we have asked Professor Phil Brown, of Cardiff University's School of Social Sciences to lead the review on the implications of digital innovation on the future of the workforce, and he is due to publish his interim findings in the coming weeks, and I'm sure we'll be debating them in this Chamber. The Welsh Government's new Working Wales programme will provide support to people of all ages to overcome barriers and gain the skills to get and keep decent jobs. And we're continually upgrading our apprenticeship provision by widening the learning opportunities available, and we have backed this commitment up through increasing revenue in the budget for the next financial year, to support delivery of the apprenticeship scheme in Wales. Pilots will also commence shortly to test a revised approach to personal learning accounts. This will allow employed individuals to fund personal vocational retraining in sectors where there is a skills shortage. We're working with stakeholders to finalise how these pilots should operate. This is all captured by the new economic action plan, and underpinned by innovative programmes such as Be The Spark, which I know many Members will be aware of, and if you're not, I'd encourage you to get in touch with them; they're quite an inspiring programme to help tech start-ups by stimulating and engaging everyone in the Welsh ecosystem to support innovation and drive entrepreneurship.

'It is no good trying to comfort ourselves with the thought that automation need not happen here',

Harold Wilson said in that speech, and he was right. We can't halt automation, so we must harness it. Diolch.

Rhaid i'r dyfodol barhau i ymwneud ag arfogi ein pobl, ein lleoedd a'n busnesau i addasu i newid er mwyn wynebu'r dyfodol gyda hyder. Efallai y bydd yr Aelodau'n ymwybodol o'r adroddiad a gyhoeddais ychydig cyn y Nadolig, a nodai ystod o argymhellion ar gyfer trawsnewid gwasanaethau cyhoeddus drwy wneud gwell defnydd o ddarpariaeth ddigidol. Ac un o gasgliadau allweddol yr adroddiad hwnnw, a ddatblygwyd gyda phanel o arbenigwyr, yw'r angen i sicrhau bod gan y sector cyhoeddus y sgiliau priodol i fanteisio ar gyfleoedd technoleg ddigidol.

Y llynedd, comisiynodd pwyllgor yr economi, dan gadeiryddiaeth Russell George, ymchwiliad i effaith deallusrwydd artiffisial ac awtomatiaeth a derbyniodd Llywodraeth Cymru lawer o argymhellion yr adroddiad hwnnw, o ran sut y gall Cymru addasu i newidiadau a chyfleoedd y pedwerydd chwyldro diwydiannol, ac rydym bellach yn gweithio i'w rhoi ar waith.

Consensws cyffredinol yr holl adroddiadau hyn, yn ogystal â gwaith ymchwil gan y Sefydliad ar gyfer Cydweithrediad a Datblygiad Economaidd, Banc Lloegr a llawer o rai eraill, yw fod technoleg yn trawsnewid, a bydd yn parhau i drawsnewid, y ffordd rydym yn gweithio, yn byw ac yn gwneud busnes. Caiff cyflymder y newid ei bennu gan rymoedd y tu hwnt i'n rheolaeth, ond mae gan y Llywodraeth rôl bwysig yn arfogi pobl â'r sgiliau sydd eu hangen a darparu'r seilwaith galluogi i baratoi'r sector cyhoeddus a'r sector preifat ar gyfer y newidiadau a wynebwn. Nid yw'r newid yn y sgiliau'n ymwneud yn unig â datblygu sgiliau digidol neu sgiliau TGCh. Bydd angen set fwy cymhleth o sgiliau ar yr economi a chyflogwyr i gynnal y sgiliau digidol hyn—sgiliau datrys problemau uwch, sgiliau rhyngbersonol, meddwl yn greadigol, gweithio mewn tîm. Caiff y rhain oll eu defnyddio'n helaeth mewn gwaith yn y dyfodol, a dyma'r mathau o bethau na all peiriannau mo'u gwneud—pobl yn unig sy'n gallu eu gwneud.

Wrth gwrs, mae'n rhaid i ni ddiogelu'r gweithlu ar gyfer y dyfodol cyn belled ag y gallwn. Nid yw awtomeiddio tasgau ailadroddus a rhagweladwy yn newydd; mae wedi bod yn digwydd ers y chwyldro diwydiannol. Yr hyn sy'n newydd yw'r ystod o dasgau a sectorau yr effeithir arnynt a'r cyflymder yr effeithir arnynt. Yn draddodiadol, gwelwyd yr effaith fwyaf mewn gweithgynhyrchu. Yn y dyfodol, ac wrth inni siarad, mae hynny'n lledaenu ar draws yr economi. Mae Bill Gates wedi dweud ein bod yn tueddu i oramcangyfrif cyflymder y newid yr ydym yn debyg o'i weld yn y ddwy flynedd nesaf, ond yn tanamcangyfrif cyflymder y newid rydym yn debygol o'i weld yn y 10 mlynedd nesaf. Rwyf wedi mynegi pryderon ac wedi trefnu cyfarfodydd bwrdd crwn ar yr effaith a gaiff y newidiadau hyn mewn proffesiynau fel y gyfraith a chyfrifyddiaeth—meysydd na chawsant eu cyffwrdd o'r blaen gan awtomatiaeth, ond sydd bellach yn wynebu'r newid hwn yn eglur iawn.

Ar yr un pryd, wrth gwrs, mae'n bwysig ein bod yn gallu deall y bydd cyfleoedd newydd i'w cael mewn meysydd megis amaethyddiaeth fanwl a'r defnydd o dechnoleg newydd wrth gynhyrchu bwyd. Ond yn ogystal â chanolbwyntio ar rolau swyddi risg uchel, dylem dderbyn hefyd efallai na fydd awtomatiaeth yn effeithio mor sylweddol ar rai galwedigaethau, yn enwedig swyddi mewn sectorau cymdeithasol megis iechyd a gofal, ond fe fydd yna effaith arnynt hwy hefyd. Bydd mwy a mwy o swyddi yn y maes hwnnw'n cael eu cynorthwyo gan beiriannau. A bydd hyd yn oed y bobl mewn swyddi yr ydym yn ystyried eu bod y tu allan i'r sector technoleg angen sgiliau i allu gweithio ochr yn ochr â'r dechnoleg.

Nawr, mae'n deg dweud bod buddsoddiad cyflogwyr ac ymwneud cyflogwyr â hyfforddiant yn dal yn her i Gymru fel y mae mewn rhannau eraill o'r DU. Ni all y Llywodraeth ysgwyddo'r baich o gyllido addysg a hyfforddiant ôl-orfodol ar ei phen ei hun, a bydd angen i chi greu system sy'n cymell cyflogwyr i fuddsoddi ochr yn ochr â'r cymorth a fydd ar gael drwy'r Llywodraeth. Mae angen inni ymrwymo i ddysgu gydol oes go iawn; dylai'r llwybr o'r gwaith i addysg ac yn ôl eto fod yn hawdd i unrhyw berson yng Nghymru. Rydym yn newid swyddi a gyrfaoedd—yn enwedig yn y gêm hon—yn amlach nag y gwnaethom erioed o'r blaen, ac mae gallu ailhyfforddi i ateb anghenion swyddi newydd yn hanfodol, ac mae pwysau awtomatiaeth sydd ar y ffordd yn atgyfnerthu ac yn cyflymu'r angen hwn.

Rwyf am gloi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, drwy grynhoi rhai o'r camau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i ymateb i'r heriau hyn. Mae ein cynllun cyflogadwyedd yn nodi amrywiaeth o fesurau i gynorthwyo unigolion i wella'u sgiliau ac i addasu eu sgiliau i anghenion newidiol y farchnad lafur, ac rydym wedi gofyn i'r Athro Phil Brown, o Ysgol y Gwyddorau Cymdeithasol ym Mhrifysgol Caerdydd i arwain yr adolygiad o oblygiadau arloesedd digidol i ddyfodol y gweithlu. Mae'n bwriadu cyhoeddi ei ganfyddiadau interim yn yr wythnosau nesaf, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddwn yn eu trafod yn y Siambr. Bydd rhaglen newydd Cymru'n Gweithio Llywodraeth Cymru yn darparu cymorth i bobl o bob oed oresgyn rhwystrau a meithrin sgiliau i gael a chadw swyddi da. Ac rydym yn uwchraddio ein darpariaeth brentisiaethau yn barhaus drwy ehangu'r cyfleoedd dysgu sydd ar gael, ac rydym wedi ategu'r ymrwymiad hwn drwy gynyddu refeniw yn y gyllideb ar gyfer y flwyddyn ariannol nesaf, i gefnogi'r gwaith o gyflwyno'r cynllun prentisiaeth yng Nghymru. Bydd cynlluniau peilot yn dechrau cyn bo hir hefyd i brofi dull diwygiedig o weithredu cyfrifon dysgu unigol. Bydd hyn yn caniatáu i unigolion cyflogedig ariannu ailhyfforddiant galwedigaethol personol mewn sectorau lle y ceir prinder sgiliau. Rydym yn gweithio gyda rhanddeiliaid i gwblhau trefniadau ar gyfer gweithredu'r cynlluniau peilot hyn. Caiff hyn oll ei gynnwys yn y cynllun gweithredu economaidd newydd, a'i seilio ar raglenni arloesol megis Creu Sbarc, y gwn y bydd llawer o'r Aelodau yn ymwybodol ohoni, ac os nad ydych, buaswn yn eich annog i gysylltu â hwy; rhaglen ysbrydoledig yw hi i helpu busnesau technoleg newydd drwy ysgogi ac ennyn diddordeb pawb yn ecosystem Cymru er mwyn cefnogi arloesedd a hybu entrepreneuriaeth.

Nid oes unrhyw ddiben ceisio cysuro ein hunain â'r syniad nad oes angen i awtomatiaeth ddigwydd yma,

meddai Harold Wilson yn yr araith honno, ac roedd yn llygad ei le. Ni allwn atal awtomatiaeth, felly rhaid inni ei harneisio. Diolch.

18:25

Thank you very much. That brings today's proceedings to a close. Thank you.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Daw hynny â thrafodion heddiw i ben. Diolch.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 18:27.

The meeting ended at 18:27.