Y Pwyllgor Llywodraeth Leol a Thai
Local Government and Housing Committee
03/11/2021Aelodau'r Pwyllgor a oedd yn bresennol
Committee Members in Attendance
| Alun Davies | |
| Carolyn Thomas | |
| Joel James | |
| John Griffiths | |
| Mabon ap Gwynfor | |
| Sam Rowlands | |
Swyddogion y Senedd a oedd yn bresennol
Senedd Officials in Attendance
| Catherine Hunt | Ail Glerc |
| Second Clerk | |
| Chloe Davies | Dirprwy Glerc |
| Deputy Clerk | |
| Manon George | Clerc |
| Clerk | |
| Samiwel Davies | Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol |
| Legal Adviser | |
| Stephen Davies | Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol |
| Legal Adviser |
Cynnwys
Contents
Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Lle mae cyfranwyr wedi darparu cywiriadau i’w tystiolaeth, nodir y rheini yn y trawsgrifiad.
The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. Where contributors have supplied corrections to their evidence, these are noted in the transcript.
Cyfarfu’r pwyllgor yn y Senedd.
Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 09:29.
The committee met in the Senedd.
The meeting began at 09:29.
Welcome, everyone, to this meeting of the Local Government and Housing Committee. Item 1 on our agenda today is introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest. We have no apologies or substitutions. Are there any declarations of interest? No.
We will move on, then, to item 2, which is papers to note. We have 12 papers before us today. Paper 1 is a letter to the Minister for Climate Change from the committee in relation to the legislative consent motion on the Leasehold Reform (Ground Rent) Bill. Paper 2 is a letter from the Minister for Climate Change in response to that letter from the committee. Paper 3 is a letter from the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution in relation to the legislative consent motion on the Elections Bill. Paper 4 is a briefing from the Electoral Commission on the UK Government Elections Bill. Paper 5 also concerns the Elections Bill; it's a letter from the Llywydd's Committee to the UK Government Minister of State for levelling up and equalities in relation to that legislation.
And then we have some items relating to the Building Safety Bill: paper 6, a letter from us to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee in relation to the legislative consent motion on that Building Safety Bill; paper 7, then, a letter from us to the Minister for Climate Change regarding the same matters; paper 8, a letter from the Minister for Climate Change in relation to that LCM.
Paper 9 is a letter from the Minister for Finance and Local Government notifying the committee in relation to allocations from the Welsh Government’s COVID reserve. Paper 10 is a letter from the Petitions Committee with regard to a petition that would give local authorities powers to control the housing market in rural and tourist areas of Wales. Paper 11 is a letter from Make UK regarding manufacturing in Wales, and paper 12 is a letter from the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales in relation to his own-initiative investigation 'Homelessness Reviewed: an open door to positive change'.
We will be returning to some of those matters in subsequent items on our agenda today. Is committee content to note those papers at this stage?
Could I make a comment?
Yes, Sam, sure.
Thank you for running through those letters at a headline level. I'm not sure what usually happens just in terms of noting these, but in terms of letter 11, for me it would seem appropriate to respond and thank the author and direct them towards perhaps the Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee. It might be more appropriate than us, as local government and housing. And I thought, for letter 12, I would certainly propose and accept that we do invite the ombudsman to come to one of our committees so we can hear more detail of the report that has been written, because I think it would bee really helpful for us to understand that further, if that would be acceptable.
Okay, Sam. Thank you very much. Mabon.
Dau beth, os gwelwch yn dda. Ar y llythyr gan y Pwyllgor Deisebau, mae awdur y ddeiseb yn sôn am ail dai ac, wrth gwrs, rydyn ni'n edrych ar hynny rŵan ac yn gwneud ymchwiliad i fewn iddo fo. Ydy o'n syniad i gysylltu efo'r awdur i ddweud ein bod ni bellach yn ymgymryd â'r gwaith yna ac yn delio efo'r mater dan sylw, os gwelwch yn dda?
A'r ail beth ydy llythyr yr ombwdsmon, a dim ond tynnu eich sylw fy mod i wedi bod yn lansiad y papur yna, ac argymell yn gryf y dylai aelodau'r pwyllgor yma ddarllen cynnwys ei adroddiad o achos mae'n addas i'r gwaith fyddwn ni'n ei wneud ar ddigartrefedd, ond yn edrych yn fwy holistig ar y broblem gan dynnu sylw at broblemau eraill sydd yn ymwneud â phobl sydd yn ffeindio eu hunain yn ddigartref, sydd hwyrach weithiau y tu hwnt i beth ydy remit y pwyllgor yma.
Two things, please. On the letter from the Petitions Committee, the author of the petition is talking about second homes and, of course, we're looking at that now and conducting an inquiry. Would it be a good idea to get in touch with the petitioner to say that we're now undertaking this work and dealing with the issue, simply, please?
And the second thing is the letter of the ombudsman. I just want to draw your attention that I went to the launch of this paper, and recommend strongly that committee members should read the content of his report because it relates to the work that we are doing on homelessness, but also looks more holistically at the issue and draws attention to other problems that are related to people who find themselves homeless, which might be beyond the remit of this committee.
A gaf i ddweud mod i'n cytuno gyda'r ddau bwynt y gwnaeth Sam eu codi? Gyda'r ombwdsmon, dwi'n cytuno gyda Sam a Mabon fod hwn yn adroddiad pwysig ac mae'n rhaid inni ystyried ei gynnwys. Liciwn i wneud hynny'n gyhoeddus, fel ein bod ni'n gallu derbyn hyn fel rhyw fath o dystiolaeth ar gyfer ein gwaith ni pan fyddwn ni'n trafod digartrefedd.
May I just say that I agree with the comments raised by Sam? As regards the ombudsman, I agree with Sam and Mabon that this is an important report and we need to consider its content. I would like to do that publicly so that we can accept this as evidence when we're discussing homelessness.
Okay. I thank the committee for those comments, then. I think there is general agreement that we will then write to Make UK, Sam, and provide a courtesy response, and, obviously, I'm sure they will have written to the economy committee as well, but we'll make that point that that would be the primary point of interest really for them, in terms of Senedd committees. We will then ask the ombudsman to come in and speak to his own-initiative report, and we can use that as useful evidence for our ongoing work on homelessness, which obviously we will be returning to.
Yes, Mabon, we will write to the petitioner with regard to that petition drawn to our attention by the Petitions Committee, and make him or her aware of the work that we're carrying out. Okay. Is that—?
Yn ychwanegol i hynny, gan ein bod ni'n chwilio am dystion, wrth inni drafod ail dai, hwyrach y buasai'n bosib awgrymu neu ofyn i'r awdur ddod i mewn a chyflwyno tystiolaeth, gan yn amlwg fod yr awdur yn reit hyddysg yn y mater. A fuasai'r awdur yn dymuno rhoi tystiolaeth inni?
In addition to that, as we are looking for witnesses in relation to our discussions on second homes, perhaps it would be worth suggesting to the petitioner to come in and present some evidence, because it's clear that the petitioner is well versed in this and may wish to provide us with that evidence.
You know we're going out to a general call for evidence, Mabon, so perhaps we could—
Mae hynny'n opsiwn, ie.
That's an option, yes.
They may well want to respond to that, and we could consider it from there, if that's okay.
Gwych, diolch.
Great, thanks.
Okay. Diolch yn fawr.
Cynnig:
bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42(vi).
Motion:
that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi).
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Okay, item 3 on our agenda today is a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. Is the committee content so to do?
Could I just ask, Chair—again, just because I'm new to this process—which part of 17.42 would we be excluding the press and the public from?
We would be excluding the press and the public from all of the remainder of this meeting, Sam.
Yes, and which part of 17.42 would it be? Because I'm looking at 17.42 and it talks about international relations, national security, business items that have commercial or economic interests. So, I was just wondering which part of 17.42, or the reason to exclude the public.
It's to take and to prepare to take and discuss evidence in private, Sam, for the purpose of the rest of this meeting.
Okay, that's fine. Thank you.
Is that okay?
Yes, just to be clear on that. Thank you.
Okay, if committee is content, then, and I see that committee is, we will move into private session.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 09:38.
Motion agreed.
The public part of the meeting ended at 09:38.